# GHB part 1



## Aftershock

Heres a load of Info i found on GHB. It looks like it could actually be of some benefit.

Its just a copy and past guys I take no credit for it. Its a bit longwinded but worth the read.

GHB (Gammahydroxybutrate or Sodium Oxybate) is a remarkable and diverse chemical found naturally in many cells of the human body.

At higher doses, GHB blocks the path of the neurotransmitter dopamine, but as the effects of GHB wear off there is a dopamine rush. This rush has been described as an aphrodisiac, as GHB creates a slight euphoric effect, (similar to mild alcohol intake). In both men and women GHB increases sexual desire and heightens climax. In men GHB increases the strength and endurance of the erection.

The use of GHB has been clinically shown to increase hGH levels by up to sixteen times baseline measurement within an hour, probably making GHB the most potent oral agonist of growth hormone. Too much GHB can place the user into a deep sleep, from which they cannot be woken for hours. But when used correctly GHB can improve libido, muscle mass, alcohol withdrawal and sleep. Only take GHB at night before bed, avoid any alcohol, and also AVOID use if you suffer from epilepsy (or other seizures), cardiovascular problems, severe hypertension or Cushing's disease. Also avoid if you are using CNS (central nervous system) depressants, such as Valium®. Look at the chart to see a figure depicting the increase of HGH levels during sleep under the influence of GHB (compared to placebo).

Dosages are wide ranging depending upon sex, body-weight (less Kg body weight /less mg dosage) and hypersensitivity.

As an approximate guide they are as follows; alcohol withdrawal 50mg to 150mg three times daily; energy enhancement 250mg to 500mg as required; libido enhancement 400mg to 800mg before sex; sleep 800mg to 1500mg; hGH release 1000mg to 2500mg before bed.

Always build up doses slowly over days to find your requirement.

With regard to the sodium based GHB powder (Genetika®), this should be mixed with juice and consumed on an empty stomach. Each level supplied 1ml spoon is equal to 350mg.

Caution: Be advised that as of January 2000 many countries have made GHB a controlled substance. They are Australia, Brunei, Canada, Finland, France, Italy, Japan, Norway, New Zealand, USA, South Africa, Sweden Switzerland and the United Kingdom. Most of these countries have also included the GHB precursors in their legislation.

Since so many countries have placed GHB in a controlled drug status and since Great Britain is expected to eventually follow suit in late 2002, IAS has now withdrawn GHB from the order form. Many countries have acted upon the World Health Organizations releases, which is turn have been copied from the US FDA and DEA press-releases. This action has been political and has very little to do with science. To learn the scientific facts and some of the reasons why GHB has been targeted as an evil-substance by the authorities we urge you to see the Product Questions and Answers section for further details and comments.

For a milder alternative for stress and anxiety relief we suggest you see Gamalate B6® as it contains close derivatives to GHB. You may also want to investigate Picamilone.

Gamma Hydroxy butyric Acid, GBH

This stuff should not be played with, misuse of this substance will cost you your life.

I'm not going to give an in-depth description of how this product works, instead I'll describe its effects. If you want to know more there is plenty of information about it on the web. It can be made at home, but if you are not a competent chemist don't even consider it. If the process is not done correctly it is a deadly poison and at the very least you will get badly burned.

GHB is a Pre - Med, an anaesthetic that has sometimes been used by Psychiatrists to lower a persons sexual inhibitions. Yes it will certainly do that and if you're thinking of using it for that be warned it will kill if mixed with alcohol or opiates (nubain addicts watch out).

It is used by bodybuilders to promote sleep when taken correctly it will put you to sleep in about 20 minutes. The resulting sleep lasts for about five or six hours and is REM sleep, which means super-recovery sleep for bodybuilders. After being used for about ten consecutive doses, every other night, it stimulates the pituitary gland to release its store of growth hormone. That's right growth hormone all of your own with no side effects (except from the GHB). Enough Said use it at your own risk.

The DEMONIZATION of GHB by Ward Dean MD

As Alabama proposes life in prison for possession of two ounces (sic), the GHB demonization reaches new heights of absurdity.

One of my patients called recently to tell me that a bill was being introduced in the Alabama State Legislature this year that would make possession of 56 grams of GHB - about two ounces (and presumably also, GBL and 1,4 BD) punishable by life in prison without possibility of parole!

The bill, sponsored by Senators Hap Myers, Vivien Figures, and J.T. "Jabo "Waggoner. The legislators who introduced the bill admitted that they had little or no knowledge of the bill other than what they were told by its real sponsor, the Alabama Attorney General.

First Open Hearings on GHB

GHB proponents have rarely had an opportunity to present the medical/scientific side of the case. All previous hearings at the state and federal levels have been driven by the FDA/DEA. Hearings have always been quietly planned, with only witnesses supporting the governments position being invited. Even on the few occasions that proponents of GHB learned of the hearings, they were either not allowed to speak or were not given adequate time to present their views.

On Wednesday , March 8th, Don McGriff, Kelly Nelson and I testified before the Alabama Senate Judicial Committee. Don McGriff is a former Republican candidate for Lieutenant Governor and non-practicing attorney from Mobile, who suffers from narcolepsy. Kelly Nelson is a 72 year old grandmother and fitness instructor.

The vote was anticipated to be a slam-dunk for the Attorney General. After the testimony, however, many senators admitted that they were now confused. The bill was tabled until the following week to allow senators to gather more information

Despite this unexpected turn of events-the only newspaper in Alabama which covered the hearing somewhat accurately was the Mobile Register.

http://www.al.com/news/mobile/Mar2000/9-a355395a.html

All other Alabama papers which covered the hearings printed "take-out pieces" on GHB, with only incidental comments on the hearings.

http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/Mar2000/9-e7963.html

http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/Mar2000/9-e9371.html

The cursory treatment of our testimony was somewhat surprising. I would think the unexpected results might be newsworthy. These results would be even more surprising if GHB were really as bad as claimed by the Attorney General.

Distortions of the Truth

I believe the reason the bill was tabled was because members of the committee saw and heard documentary evidence for the first time which indicated that the Attorney General may not have accurately interpreted the facts about the numerous benefits and overwhelming safety of GHB.

The day following the open hearing, the Alabama Attorney General sent the following letter to the members of the Judicial Committee:

March 9, 2000

Dear Senate Judiciary Members:

Please allow me the opportunity to address concerns that arose during yesterday's public hearing on Senate Bill 305 regarding the date-rape drugs GHB and flunitrazepam.

First, I want to emphasize that this bill is strictly about the trafficking of drugs that are already illegal to possess and are currently being used in Alabama to facilitate criminal activities. Exceptions are in this legislation to allow any government authorized legitimate use. As you will notice in the attached memo, however, neither of these is drugs is currently recognized by Alabama or the federal government to have a legitimate use, and neither can be legally bought or sold in the United States.

In 1998, my office proposed to the Alabama Department of Public Health to add GHB to Schedule I (the most dangerous and controlled substances) because of the growing trend in other parts of the nation to use this dangerous drug in sex offenses, and in August of that year it was added. Since that time, this drug has surfaced across Alabama in increasing fashion.

The Auburn University Student Counseling Center believes more than two-dozen girls were victims if date rape involving drugs during the past year. Using GHB as a "party drug", students from Huntsville and Trussville have been hospitalized because of dangerous experimentation. Mobile and Baldwin county emergency rooms are reporting an average of one to two GHB-related cases a week. The Department of Forensics also performed an autopsy last year where the victim conclusively died from a GHB overdose, and reports indicate at least three other Alabama citizens have died from GHB.

I have attached a short memo that addresses the concerns from yesterday's hearing. Please take a few minutes to read through this memo. I believe you will come to the same conclusion that these date-rape drugs must be added to the trafficking laws of Alabama.

Thank you for your time and consideration. If you have any questions, please contact me at 242-7401 or John Wible, General Counsel for Public Healthy at 206-5209.

Sincerely,

Bill Pryor

Attorney General

Memo from Attorney General Bill Pryor

Reference GHB

GHB is the common name for gamma hydroxybutyrate. It is a liquid drug that is colorless, odorless, and, when mixed in a drink, is virtually tasteless. GHB is mostly made in clandestine labs and GHB kits are easily available over the internet. These homemade concoctions are especially dangerous because the potency cannot be controlled. GHB can be snorted, smoked or mixed into drinks. It can cause loss of consciousness, liver failure, vomiting, tremors and potentially fatal respiratory problems (possibly death).

Dr. Dean's Reply to the Above Memo

It is clear from his description of GHB that the Mr. Pryor knows very little about it. First, GHB is not a liquid as he stated. It is a white crystalline powder, much like bicarbonate of soda. It can be dissolved in water or other beverages.

Mr. Pryor said that "when mixed in a drink [it] is virtually tasteless." GHB is, in fact, quite salty. When mixed in a drink, it ruins the drink (like dumping bicarb in a drink).

Mr. Pryor said GHB could be "snorted, smoked or mixed into drinks." The only way GHB is commonly used is by oral ingestion-by mixing in beverages. As a carbohydrate molecule, GHB would burn, and be totally inactivated by anyone trying to smoke it. Snorting would be equally ineffectual- (like "snorting" sodium bicarbonate). In Europe, GHB is available in a liquid for injection where it is used as a general anesthetic for children.

Mr. Pryor said that the kits are dangerous "because the potency cannot be controlled." On the contrary, the kits are very safe because all ingredients are pre-measured, and dosages are clearly indicated.

Mr. Pryor said that GHB can cause liver failure. GHB actually improves liver function. I have used it on a number of patients with hepatitis C, who experienced complete normalization of their liver enzymes and restoration to good health. I know of several other physicians who have had similar experiences. Long term animal studies with daily high-dose feedings of GHB for two years resulted in a reduction of liver and mammary tumors, and no organ toxicity whatsoever.

Mr. Pryor said that GHB can cause "potentially fatal respiratory problems." In even high doses, GHB does not suppress the reticular activating center of the brain which controls respiration (unlike drugs like alcohol and Rohypnol). In fact, although GHB slows the respiratory rate, it deepens the respirations, so there is little change in blood oxygen content.

I have requested documentation from the Attorney General upon which he allegedly based his statements. While awaiting receipt of this documentation, I'd like to review a number of potential distortions of the truth that have previously been made or implied by the Attorney General and others, that:

(1) "GHB is toxic."

GHB is toxic only in doses 40-100 times the recommended sleep-inducing dose of 6gms each night (Three grams upon retiring and three grams, if needed because of early awakening). The early awakening is because of GHB's extremely short half life. Another aspect of GHB's non-toxicity is that it is rapidly broken down in the body into harmless carbon dioxide and water (unlike synthetic drugs which turn into other synthetic substances that can have other adverse effects).

(2) "GHB is frequently used as a 'date rape drug.'"

This is a supreme example of "the big lie." Tell a lie often enough and people soon believe it. GHB is not a date rape drug. If, in fact, it has been used for such violent purposes, this is a microscopic fraction of GHB's total beneficial uses. Results of the most comprehensive study of the prevalence of various factors used to facilitate rape is illustrated in the figure below.

(Source: ElSohly, M.A., Salamone, S.J. Prevalence of drugs used in cases of alleged sexual assault, Journal of Analytical Toxicology, 1999, 23 (3), 141-146).

Note that the most common factor in rape is physical force. The most commonly used mind-altering substance used to facilitate rape is alcohol. Now, alcohol is not even scheduled by the Controlled Substances Act! Yet alcohol is involved in almost ten times as many date rapes as GHB! The next most common substance involved is marijuana, which is a Schedule I (Schedule I is for substances with a high potential for abuse and absolutely no medical or therapeutic uses).

Tied for third is a class of drugs that includes Rohypnol. Rohypnol is a drug like Valium, with many similar effects. Rohypnol also causes amnesia. Surgeons like to use Rohypnol as a sedative/anti-anxiety agent prior to surgery, because the patient doesn't recall any pain (s)he may have experienced. However, Rohypnol is not even legal in the U.S. At the behest of a $40,000 lobbyist, Rohypnol was downgraded to Schedule 4-a much less restrictive classification. Yet Rohypnol (and drugs of its class) are involved in almost twice as many date rapes as GHB.

Tied with Rohypnol for third (and/ or fourth) place is crack cocaine-another substance that is also already a Schedule I. Why is GHB called the date rape drug when it is used in less than 4% of the alleged rapes. In the 48 cases in which GHB was detected, it was combined with one or more of the other drugs in 37 instances.

(3) "GHB has no [approved] medical uses."

A number of extensively researched therapeutic uses for GHB are enumerated on page 18 of my book, GHB, The Natural Mood Enhancer, and are explained in detail with appropriate documentation in other parts of the book. Numerous other beneficial effects are constantly being reported, including delaying the rate of aging.

Orphan Medical is a pharmaceutical firm that is preparing to market a "medically prepared" version of GHB-sodium GHB. Orphan's version of GHB is actually chemically identical to the over- the-counter dietary supplement as well as most of the "illicitly manufactured" GHB. However, the Attorney General, the DEA, and the FDA rarely notify anyone about the impending release of Orphan Medical's product. I believe that most of the senators were unaware of this fact, and appeared surprised when I informed them of Orphan's plans.

Thus, this appears to be similar to a previous episode of DEA/FDA collusion with the pharmaceutical companies. Tryptophan, an amino acid that is still used in baby formulas and intravenous feedings, was banned in the 1980's, just prior to the introduction of Paxil®, Prozac® and Zoloft. These powerful antidepressants all owe their effectiveness to action on the same neurotransmitter system modified by tryptophan.

In one of Orphan Medical's recent press releases (available on their website [www.orphan.com]) , the company hints that physicians will be able to use the product for its numerous other uses, in addition to that of narcolepsy--for which its approval is anticipated to be imminent.

(4) "There is no antidote to GHB 'poisoning.'"

Physostigmine, a drug used to treat myesthenia gravis, rapidly awakens patients who have taken sleep-inducing doses of GHB. This has been known since 1976, and is published in the scientific literature.

(5) "GHB is a synthetic, designer drug."

GHB is a naturally occurring molecule that appears to be essential for mammalian (including human) physiology. Consequently, everyone in Alabama is guilty of "possession of a controlled substance," making us all unindicted felons.

Furthermore, since GHB has been identified in beef and many plants, the food supply is also contaminated with a controlled substance (according to current law). Under the proposed law, consuming a Big Mac quarter pounder could potentially subject one to life in prison without parole.

What are we supposed to eat?

These are not frivolous comments. Certainly the legislators could contrive a bill that would exempt McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, etc, as well as all grocery stores and meat markets which sell products with low-dose contaminations of GHB. However, consider that no other controlled substance occurs naturally in all animals and most plants-and no other controlled substance is essential for life! No other controlled substance requires such a carefully contrived list of exceptions in order to be lawful.

Something appears to be wrong here. If all the other controlled substance statutes can be written in a cookie-cutter fashion, why would so many exceptions have to be made for a law which regulates naturally occurring GHB?

(6) "GHB is made from lye and engine degreaser."

This is partly true. GBL is a precursor chemical which is used to manufacture GHB (Actually, all one has to do is mix sodium hydroxide [lye/drano] and GBL. GBL is an industrial solvent. But so is water-and water is even more commonly used as a solvent than GBL. Lye (sodium hydroxide)-when ingested, is extremely toxic. However, when mixed with GBL and completely reacted, it becomes nontoxic GHB. GBL, when mixed with water, is likewise nontoxic (it can be mildly caustic if taken full-strength).

However, it is not even necessary to make GHB to obtain its benefits. BD and GBL both convert into (turn into) GHB in the body, using natural enzymes that are already in the body.

(7) "GHB is difficult to identify on laboratory tests."

Actually, the test is technically very simple. However, the test requires a long collimeter tube, and few labs are so equipped. But if the problem with GHB abuse is as large as the authorities claim, then more GHB testing facilities could be profitably established. Samples can now be prepared at remote sites and sent for testing. The molecule is very stable. If a test for GHB is needed and not done, it is not because GHB is difficult to test for.

(8) "GHB has caused many deaths."

I have reviewed as many autopsies as I have been able to obtain, (despite a frequent reluctance on the part of the FDA and DEA to provide details of the alleged deaths [and "Adverse Events"]). In addition, many medical examiners are sometimes reluctant to provide me with requested public documents. However, of the autopsies I have reviewed, I have yet to find an autopsy that unequivocally proved that the death was caused by any toxicity of GHB. Alcohol and/or illicit drugs were involved in many (if not most) of the cases.

In several cases, there was no GHB involvement at all (confirmed by laboratory examination). In other cases, the death was more likely due to have been due to a preexisting condition-in some cases, the condition for which GHB was being taken-usually with a beneficial and most likely life-prolonging effect.


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## megatron

hmm - I dont think after taking GHB you would be able to lift a weight, it ****s you up quite seriosly, trust me.


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## Aftershock

Yeah, im not suggesting u take it then go to the gym, but a 300% increase in GH sounds good.


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## Cookie

300% chance of getting addicted more like,

Take it from someone who`s been there had the t-shirt and suffered the consequences

Yes it does/can work but there is such a fine line between use and dependency it aint worth it

Took roughly about 4 yrs to get my sleep patterns to near anything like normal after coming of that sh!te.

STAY WELL AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Aftershock

Ill take your word for it Cooki, as I have no experience with it. Although I have been offered it and was doing some research.

Ah well that 300% increase in GH was a nice thought while it lasted, lol


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## Cookie

Go with same gaba instead.

Email me and I`ll run you through a way I used to use it ok.


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## tkd

gaba gave me shortness of breath, and i beleive all the studies done on gaba and glutamine and arginine raising growth hormone are misinterpreted because they are given intravenously not orally!


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## chem1436114520

keep away from this ****e ive buried 3 very good mates throught hem using this stuff and i lost a 7 months gap in my life do to this iquid herion . end of story


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## Jimmy1

i know 2 guys that have ended up in a coma also

i had some trouble with it back in mid-late 90's...not out and out addiction, but some trouble stopping it when i did

it may benefit gh production, but the bad side of it dominates unfortunately


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## pauly7582

WHAT? i got an absolute murdering for mentioning nubain on the general chat board and comparable to this GHB is lethal!

jimmy is full of sound advice again...GHB is a killer. what easier way to die than when you're out cold from an overstrength batch. iv tried it and its not pleasant at all, - plus possession carries a hefty sentence.

save the pennies and get some ansomone and T4 mate if you want GH induced effects. iv never known anyone benefit from GHB recreationally or training wise.

your not missing anything having not tried it.


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## lockstock

I'll second the above post! Most guys are using GBL instead of GHB.

GBL is sold as a wheel cleaning chemical, take too much and it feels like your insides are on fire.

The information on GHB is very outdated, and i wouldnt recommend it whatsoever, its a load of bollocks.

My friend is a GBL addict... yea you read that right!

He was a very close friend but seeing him totally fvcked on a daily basis isnt a pretty sight so be warned people and stay away!

Look at the supposed benefits of nubain, ive seen people and my friends lose everything becouse of such stupid drugs.

They both serve no purpose in the bodybuilding game... we take enough sh1t as it is without resorting to aids like these! :axe:


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## Ellis

I cant see how people can sleep on GHB from my experience in usuing it which has been several times now and from the buz and high I get from it I think it should be compared more to ecxtacy or cocaine, and not that I am recomending it at all but is more like a party drug rather than a downer.


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## LEWIS

i had two mates who used to take it alot, they drunk also and took aas, the states they used to get in on a night out was terrrible, walking around pulling poses and the most silly faces, and then be fine not knowing they had pulled these poses and talk to you normally then a few seconds later be pulling these faces and poses again, totally madness, was enough too keep me away.


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## punkfloyd

There is NOTHING - and i mean absolutely NOTHING good about this drug.

I know we all hear that so many things can go wrong with taking certain drugs, but believe me so many things DO go wrong with GHB/GBL.

Anyone who knows anything about it will tell you that - avoid at all costs!

Any sort of trauma - such as hitting yourself in the face with a hammer - would illicit a release of GH but anyone with a bit of sense wouldn't do it.

Same with GHB/GBL.

Incidently, the purported 300% GH increase would be outweighed by the dramatic rise in prolactin that it also causes. Worthless for Bodybuilding.

Even as a sleep aid it is terrible - it does not provide restful sleep - sure it'll knock you out....

But so does hitting yourself in the face with a hammer :crazy:

Stuart


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## diaita

stay well away,only used once,until i read tears on a key board by mick heart,get caught with it and you will be in the sh*t,d**k heads found other uses 4 it,lets put it this way 2 guys came into our gym lookin 4 some,for when they go clubbing and ended up crawling out.


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## Nytol

punkfloyd said:


> There is NOTHING - and i mean absolutely NOTHING good about this drug.
> 
> I know we all hear that so many things can go wrong with taking certain drugs, but believe me so many things DO go wrong with GHB/GBL.
> 
> Anyone who knows anything about it will tell you that - avoid at all costs!
> 
> Any sort of trauma - such as hitting yourself in the face with a hammer - would illicit a release of GH but anyone with a bit of sense wouldn't do it.
> 
> Same with GHB/GBL.
> 
> Incidently, the purported 300% GH increase would be outweighed by the dramatic rise in prolactin that it also causes. Worthless for Bodybuilding.
> 
> * Even as a sleep aid it is terrible - it does not provide restful sleep - sure it'll knock you out.... *
> 
> But so does hitting yourself in the face with a hammer :crazy:
> 
> Stuart


Yes it does provide a natural restful sleep, it is by far the best sleep aid legal or illegal.

The rise in GH is a non point really, inj GH is no magic bullet, so any rise from GH will do next to nothing IMO.

However it is excellent for sleep.


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## supercell

Nytol said:


> Yes it does provide a natural restful sleep, it is by far the best sleep aid legal or illegal.
> 
> The rise in GH is a non point really, inj GH is no magic bullet, so any rise from GH will do next to nothing IMO.
> 
> *However it is excellent for sleep*.


So is sex and more fun. 

J


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## Nytol

supercell said:


> So is sex and more fun.
> 
> J


GHB, then sex, then sleep is even more fun,


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## Robbie

I dabbled with GHB once recreationally, have some friends that still get VERY f**ked up on it regularly.

NASTY stuff.


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## punkfloyd

Nytol,

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this issue.

GHB/GBL may during the stages of inital use induce sleep and leave the user waking up feeling fresh and invigorated but that effect is short lived.

Use it for more than a couple of weeks and it becomes nigh on impossible to get to sleep without it - then requires another dosage half way through the night to get back to sleep.

At this stage alone i would say that most people would not be feeling too rested, never mind if they are planning to use it frequently.

My main issue with this product is that the dangers involved with it far outweigh the therapeutic benefits, especially if one chooses to use it recreationally, or because it increases certain sensations...

Although it doesn't have the same "knockout" effect, i consider L-Tryptophan to be a far superior sleep aid for bodybuilding purposes than GHB/GBL.

You're a very knowlegeble guy Nytol, i've read a lot of your posts and would imagine that you haven't arrived at your opinion without some consideration, however my own observations on this compound lead me to voice what i said earlier with a lot of conviction - it is worthless for bodybuilding and should be avoided.

Stuart


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## hackskii

diaita said:


> i read tears on a key board by mick heart.


Read that one and at the end brought tears to my eyes.

I have the e-book if someone is interested, I am sure Mick would not mind as a deterant.

[email protected] if someone is interested in reading that.

Wow.

It is used in the States and labeled as "The Date Rape Drug"

Seems they slip it into your drink and you are out.

Another killer sleep hormone is melatonin, that stuff gives me very wild dreams and to this I would suggest GH release, not to mention it is one of the strongest anti-oxidants of anything, anti-cancer too.

L-Triptophan is good stuff but discontinued, the product that replaced it is 5-HTP, which is pretty decent, another one that works well is valarian root.


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## Nytol

Hack, I would take anything written by Mick with a large pinch of salt, he was on TV saying he was doing 2 x 100g tubs per day, which is total b0llocks, he would not be awake long enough to even finish one tub.


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## diaita

hackskii said:


> It is used in the States and labeled as "The Date Rape Drug"
> 
> Seems they slip it into your drink and you are out.


I didnt want to put ideas into anyones head,so i didn't mention it, thats why the 2 guys had the **** kicked out of them,I think if I remember right Mike was taking it with booze thats how he lost his teeth, Nytol its a good read weither true or not its up to you to decide.


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## Nytol

punkfloyd said:


> Nytol,
> 
> I have to respectfully disagree with you on this issue.
> 
> GHB/GBL may during the stages of inital use induce sleep and leave the user waking up feeling fresh and invigorated but that effect is short lived.
> 
> Use it for more than a couple of weeks and it becomes nigh on impossible to get to sleep without it - then requires another dosage half way through the night to get back to sleep.
> 
> At this stage alone i would say that most people would not be feeling too rested, never mind if they are planning to use it frequently.
> 
> * My main issue with this product is that the dangers involved with it far outweigh the therapeutic benefits, especially if one chooses to use it recreationally, or because it increases certain sensations...*
> 
> Although it doesn't have the same "knockout" effect, i consider L-Tryptophan to be a far superior sleep aid for bodybuilding purposes than GHB/GBL.
> 
> You're a very knowlegeble guy Nytol, i've read a lot of your posts and would imagine that you haven't arrived at your opinion without some consideration, however my own observations on this compound lead me to voice what i said earlier with a lot of conviction - it is worthless for bodybuilding and should be avoided.
> 
> Stuart


Rec use is a totally different thing IMO, and I cant comment as I do not use any rec stuff, or GHB for rec purposes.

I think anything used every day for sleep is a bad idea, as even if a physical dependence is not developed then a psychological one may be.

I have used GHB for many years, but only maybe once per week, or less, when I need to sleep earlier for a reason, or if I am agitated maybe and feel I'll have trouble sleeping.

I do not feel any different when I wake, I get no refreshed feeling, it just puts me to sleep. Nor do I wake up after 4hrs.

The sleep it does give, is a natural deep sleep, going through all the stages of a normal sleep, something many sleep drugs can not claim.

It is not something I would recommend to people, as you can not control how they will use/abuse it, but my point is, for a person using it just for sleep on occasion, it is very good.

I've never tried Tryptophan, or 5 HTP but will get some to try.

I agree that it is no good for Bodybuilding in the sense of gains from the compound, and anyone who is taking it for their physique will be disappointed.


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## hackskii

Nytol said:


> I think anything used every day for sleep is a bad idea, as even if a physical dependence is not developed then a psychological one may be.


For most things I totally agree with.

Melatonin is a naturally induced sleep hormone brought on by lack of sunlight, or better put absense of sunlight.

Many guys here in the States work a midnight shift and have some serious problems with insomnia, melatonin is the best use for this type of situation.

Honestly it gives me the depth of sleep that I do not notice in anything else.

It is non habbit forming, and non dependence.

If I forget to take it I wont sleep any less nor more than if I dont.

This stuff is awesome.

It cant be purchased in the UK as it is a hormone (naturally occuring one).

If you want Nytol, I can send you a few bottles to try out and or give to some other members to give it a shot. It is cheap, non habbit forming and works killer for giving one a deep sleep.

It lasts many hours and should be taken about 2 hours or even more prior to bed. The dreams are freaking wild.

I would be willing to buy it for you and ship for free.

I love the stuff actually.......

Sorry Aftershock for the hyjack, I will send you a bottle too, or better yet I can send the bottles to you and you can send them to Nytol or the other way around......

Either way, that is cool with me.

There was a article in Mens Health where taking Melatonin before workouts boosts GH output, but honestly this stuff makes me tired, and if I take it too late in the night I wake up groggy, even hung over kind of feeling.....

Take it early to elliviate that.


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## Guest

Agree with you hacks i use melatonin most nights some times by it self but the SLEEP MD formula is great and i actually look forward to taking it.

I used to take much stronger prescription sleep aids but much prefer the SLEEP MD for many reasons.

About the GHB most things if not every thing has its purpose:beer1:


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## hackskii

Hey con, what is SLEEP MD formula?

I have been sick this past 5 days and the perscription medications they gave me keeps me awake and I freaking hate it.

I have never in my life suffered from insomnia but these anti-biotics have me not being able to sleep.

Granted I keep forgetting to take melatonin but I would like to keep an open mind to things that work.


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## Truewarrior1

hacks mate you can get melatonin over here off the net,you just can't buy it at a store,you can get it off the net and it's not illegal possession wise.


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## Guest

http://www.sleepmdhealth.com/ its actually made by the muscle tech crowd because i saw it on the muscle tech product list also it has the nanudiffuse technology:rolleyes: but it works very well especially if you take a few of them, i take them and within half an hour i feel very relaxed and then i can sleep for hours and hours


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## megatron

hackskii said:


> Read that one and at the end brought tears to my eyes.
> 
> I have the e-book if someone is interested, I am sure Mick would not mind as a deterant.
> 
> [email protected] if someone is interested in reading that.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> It is used in the States and labeled as "The Date Rape Drug"
> 
> Seems they slip it into your drink and you are out.
> 
> Another killer sleep hormone is melatonin, that stuff gives me very wild dreams and to this I would suggest GH release, not to mention it is one of the strongest anti-oxidants of anything, anti-cancer too.
> 
> L-Triptophan is good stuff but discontinued, the product that replaced it is 5-HTP, which is pretty decent, another one that works well is valarian root.


Over here youy can get L5HTP


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## Nytol

Con said:


> Agree with you hacks i use melatonin most nights some times by it self but the SLEEP MD formula is great and i actually look forward to taking it.
> 
> I used to take much stronger prescription sleep aids but much prefer the SLEEP MD for many reasons.
> 
> About the GHB most things if not every thing has its purpose:beer1:


Have you tried 'Sleep Fast' from Publix? I tried it when I was over there and the delayed flight messed my body clock up, it is the antihistamine in benadryl which you said was good, I found it to be very good, much better than I expected.

Sleep MD look as if it is just Melatonin with a load of other crap added?

Melatonin works well for me, but it need to be taken a couple of hours before I want to sleep.


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## Aftershock

Damn I sturred this one up from back in 2004 

I used GHB 3 days a week in the days before GH was affordable to the masses.

I think like most things if you abuse it you will pay, but I suffered no ill effects.

I don't think it worth it these days in a bodybuilding sense but it sure did knock you out when you wanted to go to sleep and PERSONALLY I did wake feeling more refreshed, much like I do these days if I take GH at bedtime.

I would stop short of recommending it to anyone given GH is so affordable now.

I do think it has a worse rep than it deserves, primarily because people use it recreationally and mix it with alcohol which is a recipe for disaster.


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## lockstock

As mentioned earlier, my friend was a JBL (GHB) addict! Hes been in rehab twice, lost half of his business and friends, has just been released from prison for nearly killing a woman whilst falling unconcious.... at the wheel of his van into an old womans car!

He got 2months for that and was released on christmas eve!!!

He was a close friend but that faded because of his addiction, what an idiot.

Oh, and he flat lined twice in the hospital. 3rd time lucky for him as he was able to survive without the life support machine after that.

I rarely post anymore but GBL or GHB is a very serious issue and i just wanted to say my bit.

The increase of 300% gh release is total rubbish.

Dont go down that slippery road, it has NO place in bodybuilding!!!

BE smart


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## Nine Pack

lockstock said:


> As mentioned earlier, my friend was a JBL (GHB) addict! Hes been in rehab twice, lost half of his business and friends, has just been released from prison for nearly killing a woman whilst falling unconcious.... at the wheel of his van into an old womans car!
> 
> He got 2months for that and was released on christmas eve!!!
> 
> He was a close friend but that faded because of his addiction, what an idiot.
> 
> Oh, and he flat lined twice in the hospital. 3rd time lucky for him as he was able to survive without the life support machine after that.
> 
> I rarely post anymore but GBL or GHB is a very serious issue and i just wanted to say my bit.
> 
> The increase of 300% gh release is total rubbish.
> 
> Dont go down that slippery road, it has NO place in bodybuilding!!!
> 
> BE smart


Well said Paul. This stuff is a *total* life wrecker. I have seen a dear friend get hooked on this god awful pernicious stuff so would I urge anyone considering it to leave it the hell alone.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

:bump:


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

sorry if some1 has already said this cus i aint read it fully yet but aint this the stuff that mick hart talks bout in tears on a keyboard?


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## brasco

Chris4Pez said:


> sorry if some1 has already said this cus i aint read it fully yet but aint this the stuff that mick hart talks bout in tears on a keyboard?


i think so mate!


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## grantos

was hooked on this for two years,started off 5ml before bed sleep like a baby and recovered ready to train the next day,used to love that drifting off feeling, wont bore you with the details but ended up taking 400-500ml a day was constanly blacking out, wrote my car off on it, you end up fat and bloated as it makes you crave food as your body thinks your tired,trying to track down enough of it to ward off the withdrawels which kick in after about 3-4 hours, even heroin gives you 12-24 hours, ended up taking gbl instead, when i finally came off it i was extremely nervous, shaking like a leaf, diaorhea,zero sleep just lying there in bed sweating,gripped with anxiety even valium didnt help couldnt stand it any longer and ended up taking heroin something i hadnt even seen till then but i hunted it down anything to get rid of the withdrawels, also have 3 friends die on it, and lost my partner but have my life back now just training no drink or drugs for the last 5 years


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## adesign

Some good posts. Just a quick question; Ive been using gbl recreationally. Does this give the same GH release? I will most likely get out of this phase soon though, I get bad rebound wake every time which kind of messes up the ease of sleep appeal.


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## sofresh

f#### ghb


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## adesign

No idea what 5 letter word your trying to say there.


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## hackskii

adesign said:


> Some good posts. Just a quick question; Ive been using gbl recreationally. Does this give the same GH release? I will most likely get out of this phase soon though, I get bad rebound wake every time which kind of messes up the ease of sleep appeal.


This Gamma Butyrolactone?

What gbl are you talking about?


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## pingu

the growth hormone talk is nonsense have had 3 friends die of this and was hooked myself, started taking for training as it makes you sleep like a log 6 hours is like 9 hours and back to the gym for 7am no hangover but like most drugs there is a honeymoon period, anyway started taking it recreationally and was taking it every 2 hours, a lot of bodybuilders i knew took it, lost my job, partner, car etc and also took a lot of gbl but even after all this i think there is a place for it in bodybuilding if you keep it for occassional use after all people take insulin which has a risk factor (even though i have had no experience of it myself and people get hooked on painkillers etc i just find it strange that these claims about growth hormones etc are banded about,if it was i would look l like Ronnie Coleman


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## SD

pingu said:


> the growth hormone talk is nonsense have had 3 friends die of this and was hooked myself, started taking for training as it makes you sleep like a log 6 hours is like 9 hours and back to the gym for 7am no hangover but like most drugs there is a honeymoon period, anyway started taking it recreationally and was taking it every 2 hours, a lot of bodybuilders i knew took it, lost my job, partner, car etc and also took a lot of gbl but even after all this i think there is a place for it in bodybuilding if you keep it for occassional use after all people take insulin which has a risk factor (even though i have had no experience of it myself and people get hooked on painkillers etc i just find it strange that these claims about growth hormones etc are banded about,if it was i would look l like Ronnie Coleman


There are so many stories like this on this site alone, its a wonder it ever became popular in Bbing.

SD


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## wmullen

Posted this on another thread but will post on this one also as if it saves a life then it's worth every word...

Also to add that i was in a bad car accident falling asleep at the wheel from too much GHB, almost killed someone.

>>

Stay away from it dude.

I was addicted to this sh1t and it put me in hospital with a seizure. Started taking it to sleep better, and ended up getting addicted and taking it every 3 hrs. It has a 'socializing' effect similiar to alcohol only stronger so very easy to get hooked. Also a very fine line between taking enough and taking too much. Take too much and it'll knock you out cold. I was a zombie for months, horrible.

For the slight gh release you might get it's no way worth it.


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## Guest

Old thread........


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## StJocKIII

I had no idea people took GHB recreationally, i was under the impression it was strictly for spiking.

Intermeresting.


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## hackskii

Not to mention if you get caught with that stuff here in the states you might as well have heroine or crack cocaine.


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## Jimmy1

one of the cheerleaders in my football team just died from GBL only 3 days ago

i cant believe i used to use this stuff

what a waste!!!!!!


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## Guest

I used have a 2 liter bottle stocked with GHB sitting on my fridge. Used to use it all the time to get wasted as I didnt really like to drink. I started foaming at the mouth once because I took to much. Some nasty sh1te. I used to know alot of people that used it to get high.

I agree with Jimmy......"what a waste"


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## wmullen

I saw that on the front of the Telgraph today. I thought they already made GBL illegal but seems like there's a delay in getting the law passed due to it's industrial uses.

Such a waste of a young life, really sad.


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## Jimmy1

the worste thing is i know the guy that was with her

nothing in the paper about that

lets just say that they regularly took drugs together...but the police are trying to pin date rape resulting in manslaughter on him

he is unconsolable as you can imagine


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## xjtravisx

GHB is now legalized in low-potency pill-form in the US. It is prescribed for chronic pain, usually fibromyalgia. It's considered the wonder drug for fibro, but because of all the date rapes(diluted in drinks), and alcohol-combinig deaths(not many, and usually with young women), there will always be a schism just at mentioning the name, whether for treatment or not. It is VERY expensive>>


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## Aftershock

It looks like its use in that field may yet go up in smoke.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/ProductAlert/Prescriptions/21809


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## TickleBragger

StJocKIII said:


> I had no idea people took GHB recreationally, i was under the impression it was strictly for spiking.
> 
> Intermeresting.


Yes, it's taken recreationally. In fact, I read that it's even more popular than ecstasy in other areas. Right now, it's very popular among young people in the US, UK and some other parts of Europe. It's considered as a party drug because it gives off the same effects as ecstasy.


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