# Could you get 18stone off muscle naturally with out any steroids?



## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

Hello, i have a mate that wants to get 18stone with muscle in 5 years time hes 13stone now, so is it possible with out taking any form off steroids? Well i dont think hes took any steroids any way


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Yeah if hes around 7ft 8" :innocent:


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

pea head said:


> Yeah if hes around 7ft 8" :innocent:


Lol hes 6ft so basically its not possible then? even if he had a good diet and a good work out routine?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Has he said he wants to do it naturally?


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

Difficult without seeing his natural structure

I hate to say no as I like to believe in achieving what most would deem impossible it's approach I've used all my training life and continue to do so

So I think I'll say there is only one way to find out


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

andyhuggins said:


> Has he said he wants to do it naturally?


Yeah i thought theres no chance he could get that size with out steroids and by the way hes black so genetics might play a good part


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

Therealbigbear said:


> Difficult without seeing his natural structure
> 
> I hate to say no as I like to believe in achieving what most would deem impossible it's approach I've used all my training life and continue to do so
> 
> So I think I'll say there is only one way to find out


So you dont thing its possible then?


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm 5' 11" and got to a little over 16 stone natty. You would have to have some awesome genetics to hit 18 clem I'd imagine...


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

Mingster said:


> I'm 5' 11" and got to a little over 16 stone natty. You would have to have some awesome genetics to hit 18 clem I'd imagine...


How long did it take you to get 16stone?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Never say die :whistling:


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

nickembleton said:


> Lol hes 6ft so basically its not possible then? even if he had a good diet and a good work out routine?


Good aint guna cut it if he's wants to go the natty route. Even with some help 18 stone of muscle wont be easy to achieve


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

Breda said:


> Good aint guna cut it if he's wants to go the natty route. Even with some help 18 stone of muscle wont be easy to achieve


Thats what i thought


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

nickembleton said:


> How long did it take you to get 16stone?


Well I went from 12 and a half to 16 in about 3 years but it took nearer 5 years to be 16 in good shape...


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

Mingster said:


> Well I went from 12 and a half to 16 in about 3 years but it took nearer 5 years to be 16 in good shape...


Did you have a good diet and how many days did you work out a week?


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

nickembleton said:


> Did you have a good diet and how many days did you work out a week?


I've pretty much always trained with weights 3 times a week. I think my diet was good but I've never been a diet fanatic. Lots of good wholesome foods rather than peeling my grapes and weighing my blueberries Good home cooking and home made mass shakes were the order of the day when I started lifting.


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

People will suggest that it's more than possible with dieting and training for the same reason they feel obliged to emphasize the lack of 'magic beans' contained in AAS

If they are a genetic monster, perhaps 7 ft tall and shoulders as wide as a car then maybe so

Otherwise probably not


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

nickembleton said:


> Hello, i have a mate that wants to get 18stone with muscle in 5 years time hes 13stone now, so is it possible with out taking any form off steroids? Well i dont think hes took any steroids any way


18st..easy.

18st lean....ummmm....


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

nickembleton said:


> So you dont thing its possible then?


No i think it is but without meeting him i dont know if its possible for him


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## nickembleton (May 16, 2010)

Therealbigbear said:


> No i think it is but without meeting him i dont know if its possible for him


Ok fair enough


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2013)

Mingster said:



> Well I went from 12 and a half to 16 in about 3 years but it took nearer 5 years to be 16 in good shape...


Not bad going that mate! Was that on a similar split to what you do now?


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Totally depends on how lean he wants to be..

I don't think I could ever pass 14 stone at my height with the same % of body fat I have now. At 6 foot you could probably stretch to 15 -16 stone lean I reckon. 18 stone would be ridiculous.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Jd123 said:


> Not bad going that mate! Was that on a similar split to what you do now?


Pretty much. I'm not a big fan of change for changes sake. If it works I stick with it


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

For a natural:

Height in cm - 100 = Maximum weight whilst in stage condition (in kg)

according to Martin Berkhan


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

MutantX said:


> For a natural:
> 
> Height in cm - 100 = Maximum weight whilst in stage condition (in kg)
> 
> according to Martin Berkhan


what if you're a 1 meter tall dwarf?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

MutantX said:


> For a natural:
> 
> Height in cm - 100 = Maximum weight whilst in stage condition (in kg)
> 
> according to Martin Berkhan


88kg for me +_+

im 86kg and far from stage condition lol


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## Shaynewob (Aug 6, 2011)

I'll just say good luck to this one


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## man_dem03 (Oct 1, 2008)

my training partner of 3 years started with me when he was 12 st and 6ft 5, he's now 100kg think thats just over 15 and a half stone and he's natural.

he's got good genes though, his back and bies are massive.

but key thing about my training partner is he wants it, he wants to compete and will do his first show next year.

he thinks of bodybuilding as his life......if your friend wants to get that big natty, he will have to do the same but even my friend think his genes play a lot in his size


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## littlesimon (May 24, 2010)

That's a lot of muscular weight to gain.

I'm 18st on the button, but I'd have to go sub 17st to really be in shape and that's at 6'3".


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## hotchy (Aug 20, 2009)

Am 18 stone but 6ft5 and fat lol 14.5 when looking in good nick.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Mingster said:


> I'm 5' 11" and got to a little over 16 stone natty. You would have to have some awesome genetics to hit 18 clem I'd imagine...


Ive not heard the ph**** clem in years haha


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> 88kg for me +_+
> 
> im 86kg and far from stage condition lol


and not even natty

sorry :laugh:

edit - it does state this is for those with great genetics


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

MutantX said:


> and not even natty
> 
> sorry :laugh:


 :whistling: ill be natty one day


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## Captain-splooge (May 29, 2011)

nickembleton said:


> Yeah i thought theres no chance he could get that size with out steroids and *by the way hes black* so genetics might play a good part


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

MutantX said:


> and not even natty
> 
> sorry :laugh:
> 
> edit - it does state this is for those with great genetics


it worked for rob riches.

oh wait...


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

MutantX said:


> it worked for rob riches.
> 
> oh wait...


Now this could be a whole new thread :whistling:


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

MutantX said:


> For a natural:
> 
> Height in cm - 100 = Maximum weight whilst in stage condition (in kg)
> 
> according to Martin Berkhan


So for me being 178cm tall and weighing 109kg I'd have to lose 31kg of body weight to get down to 78kg?

Maybe I could cut my legs off!!!

This bloke is talking bollox!!!


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Sorry but i believe this is the critria for the classic class.


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

andyhuggins said:


> Sorry but i believe this is the critria for the classic class.


Thank feck for that.


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## oldskoolcool (Oct 4, 2009)

Natty stage weight at 6ft is going to be around 180lbs @ about 6% mate, thats with around 10 years training too no where near 250lbs to be this kind of weight at 6 ft @ 6%

takes a lot of aas + hgh and years of training some may hit these weights without slin but most will need it too if you didnt start training at 14.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

SILV3RBACK said:


> So for me being 178cm tall and weighing 109kg I'd have to lose 31kg of body weight to get down to 78kg?
> 
> Maybe I could cut my legs off!!!
> 
> This bloke is talking bollox!!!


Are you natty? What bf% do you think you are?


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

36-26 said:


> Are you natty? What bf% do you think you are?


I am natty.

As to bf% I have no clue. If I were to guess I'd say 20-25% so I'm not lean but I don't think I'm a fat fecker either. I did get a tape measure out last month to see what size certain body parts were but they weren't nothing special!!!


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

SILV3RBACK said:


> I am natty.
> 
> As to bf% I have no clue. If I were to guess I'd say 20-25% so I'm not lean but I don't think I'm a fat fecker either. I did get a tape measure out last month to see what size certain body parts were but they weren't nothing special!!!


As people often way under estimate their bodyfat then yeah you might need to lose a lot for what would be stage condition.

Sorry


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## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

I cannot be bothered to read the thread through.

If he is 6ft, then yes, unless he an skinny wee ectomorph is absolutely possible to reach a lean (although I guess that depends on your definition, so I'll go with visible abs as a benchmarker) 18st.

Although, obv, as I'm promoting a natty build, which requires more clean eating and dedicated training I'll be shot down. :tt2: at all you assisted shortärses 

Edit: If he is 6ft then frankly most women won't care he's not sub 10%. What is his actual goal? 18st and single figure body fat %? Or just 18st, irrespective of leaness? Cause frankly, you're always gonna have a certain amount of fat. Maybe I should read the thread to find out actual goals? Meh, just reiterate them.


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

MutantX said:


> As people often way under estimate their bodyfat then yeah you might need to lose a lot for what would be stage condition.
> 
> Sorry


But I don't want to be in stage condition. I just want to get as big as I can. If that means carrying the extra poundage of body fat as well then I don't really care.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

SILV3RBACK said:


> But I don't want to be in stage condition. I just want to get as big as I can. If that means carrying the extra poundage of body fat as well then I don't really care.


IT's very possible. I am 6' 2" and was 19 7lbs+ natural, with all 6 abs on show  I'm not natural now and its only a recent decision of mine, but was for many years.....


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

SILV3RBACK said:


> But I don't want to be in stage condition. I just want to get as big as I can. If that means carrying the extra poundage of body fat as well then I don't really care.


That's fine we all have our goals.

But doesn't mean that Martin Berkhan was talking boll0x tho does it? (For once lol)


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> IT's very possible. I am 6' 2" and was 19 7lbs+ natural, with all 6 abs on show  I'm not natural now and its only a recent decision of mine, but was for many years.....


Pics please


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2013)

http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

Casey butts formula is more realistic.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

foodaddict said:


> Pics please


Nov 2007, was bulking to compete in bnbf, which never happened.



I did actually get over 20st in the end, but went from 6 abs to 4


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Sub 10%, 18stone, natty 

May be one or two genetic freaks in the world but pretty sure this isn't possible.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> Sub 10%, 18stone, natty
> 
> May be one or two genetic freaks in the world but pretty sure this isn't possible.


Of course its possible. How are you sure, cos you couldnt do it?

The OP does not want to be sub 10%, he wants to be 18st, which at 6' is certainly achievable.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Dark sim said:


> Of course its possible. How are you sure, cos you couldnt do it?
> 
> The OP does not want to be sub 10%, he wants to be 18st, which at 6' is certainly achievable.


I'm 20st at moment, I'm way over 18st in Avi with full abs 

I will reiterate what I stated - "Sub 10%, 18stone, natty" - not possible.

Anyone can get to over 18st with very high BF%!! I'll find you a pic of Cyril Smith if you require.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> I'm 20st at moment, I'm way over 18st in Avi with full abs
> 
> I will reiterate what I stated - "Sub 10%, 18stone, natty" - not possible.
> 
> Anyone can get to over 18st with very high BF%!! I'll find you a pic of Cyril Smith if you require.


Snap, so am I 

I meant naturally, without chemical enhancement.....

Cyril Smith is not exactly the look the OP wants to achieve. I think he wants to remain muscular.

I know its possible as I was 19st 7lbs+ at about 15%. Its not sub 10% but would of been had I cut.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> Snap, so am I
> 
> I meant naturally, without chemical enhancement.....
> 
> ...


But you are 6 foot 2. A couple of inches means a couple of stone to play with.

There will be a small number of people that can get to 18 stone @10% and at 6 foot tall but will be extremely rare.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Im sure there have been freaks of nature that have. But its never going to happen to normal people.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Mingster said:


> But you are 6 foot 2. A couple of inches means a couple of stone to play with.
> 
> There will be a small number of people that can get to 18 stone @10% and at 6 foot tall but will be extremely rare.


I don't think an inch equates to a st in bw, maybe 7lbs. He don't want sub 10%, he could still look muscular at 20%.


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

Mingster said:


> Well I went from 12 and a half to 16 in about 3 years but it took nearer 5 years to be 16 in good shape...


Abit like mine that. Started at 11 stone, got to 15 then heaviest I got 18.5 stone. Abit lighter now with injury


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

18 stone without a belly is possible if you have the right build to start with... I know I'm to skinny and my frame is too slight so I wouldn't stand a chance.

I bet this guy has been a big lad all his life: http://www.rfu.com/squadsandplayers/englandelite/makovunipola you can't just choose to get that size.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

2004mark said:


> 18 stone without a belly is possible if you have the right build to start with... I know I'm to skinny and my frame is too slight so I wouldn't stand a chance.
> 
> I bet this guy has been a big lad all his life: http://www.rfu.com/squadsandplayers/englandelite/makovunipola you can't just choose to get that size.


Rugby players natty 

Massive gear heads - I know an ex-England player. Andy Sheridan bench presses 200KG !!


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> Rugby players natty
> 
> Massive gear heads - I know an ex-England player. Andy Sheridan bench presses 200KG !!


I actually meant to put a disclaimer that I wasn't commenting on their PED history :lol:

I'm as sceptical as anyone when it comes to PED's in sport, but there must be some who take the decision not to use... but yeah, point taken.


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

2004mark said:


> 18 stone without a belly is possible if you have the right build to start with... I know I'm to skinny and my frame is too slight so I wouldn't stand a chance.
> 
> I bet this guy has been a big lad all his life: http://www.rfu.com/squadsandplayers/englandelite/makovunipola you can't just choose to get that size.


Vunipola is the fattest player in the England team and I bet he still jabs plenty.

But yeah I get what you mean about some guys having that naturally heavier build...like Samoan/Tongan guys etc


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Nov 2007, was bulking to compete in bnbf, which never happened.
> 
> View attachment 130817
> 
> ...


Fair play to you.

But how natty is natty?

What I mean is...perhaps you have been natural for many years, but you have the physique of someone who looks like they have juiced at least at SOME point in his life. And I may be well wide of the mark but do some natural federations (I dont know if its the BNBF specifically) have some kind of '7 year rule' where you have to have been clean for a minimum of 7 years, but can still have built your 'base' with PED use preceding that timespan?

You have a very impressive physique and I have a hard time believing you didnt get some chemical help getting to that size. Maybe you havent used in years but thats not the same as having never used at all.

You might flame me for this but just being honest mate. Not being malicious.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

nickembleton said:


> Hello, i have a mate that wants to get 18stone with muscle in 5 years time hes 13stone now, so is it possible with out taking any form off steroids? Well i dont think hes took any steroids any way


depends what the 13 stone consists of now.


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

Is it 18 stone lean or ripped?

Was just thinking because Jay Cutler won the 2009 Olympia at 18 stone!!


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

SILV3RBACK said:


> I am natty.
> 
> As to bf% I have no clue. If I were to guess I'd say 20-25% so I'm not lean but I don't think I'm a fat fecker either. I did get a tape measure out last month to see what size certain body parts were but they weren't nothing special!!!


Then you might be surprised how much you need to lose to get to stage condition, he might not be talking bollocks at all.


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

36-26 said:


> Then you might be surprised how much you need to lose to get to stage condition, he might not be talking bollocks at all.


Couldn't really give a toss to be honest.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

SILV3RBACK said:


> Couldn't really give a toss to be honest.


Fair enough


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

foodaddict said:


> Fair play to you.
> 
> But how natty is natty?
> 
> ...


I take it as a compliment and always did. Never touched a thing.

Food is key and relentless compound movements.

BNBF has a 10 year rule. Never pursued this route as I was told that competitors would cut using growth, and at the time I didn't want to contemplate steroids in any way shape or form. Now things are different, I want to get on stage with the super heavies, so of course I had to start, and I did 8 weeks ago


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

SILV3RBACK said:


> Couldn't really give a toss to be honest.


Strong intelligence lol


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> I take it as a compliment and always did. Never touched a thing.
> 
> Food is key and relentless compound movements.
> 
> BNBF has a 10 year rule. Never pursued this route as I was told that competitors would cut using growth, and at the time I didn't want to contemplate steroids in any way shape or form. Now things are different, I want to get on stage with the super heavies, so of course I had to start, and I did 8 weeks ago


What you mentioned about the GH in the natties is exactly why I don't get why some people want to compete but have such strong anti-PEDprinciples (no offence) it's a thankless task!

Be interesting to see how you progress now you've turned to the dark side mate...hope you're enjoying


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Sure it is possible, sub 10% and below 6' 2 would be tough going because the muscle falls off rapidly with the lard.


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

MutantX said:


> Strong intelligence lol


Do u even workout?


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

SILV3RBACK said:


> Do u even workout?


I do if pink dumbells count??

Do u even diet?


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

MutantX said:


> I do if pink dumbells count??
> 
> Do u even diet?


No.

Never have. Never will. Never needed to.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

only few people will get to 18 stone naturally an lean, people who have naturally high test levels (mainly black) and perfect training diet. and Even then they will not be able to get ripped, if they cut naturally they will just lose muscle at the same time.

I got to 16 stone naturally at 6ft in the past at about 16-18%bf, visible abs at the top


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

SILV3RBACK said:


> No.
> 
> Never have. Never will. Never needed to.


Some people are happy being fat, that's fine


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

MutantX said:


> Some people are happy being fat, that's fine


I suppose they are. As I'm sure you are


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Poke said:


> only few people will get to 18 stone naturally an lean, people who have naturally high test levels (mainly black) and perfect training diet. and Even then they will not be able to get ripped, if they cut naturally they will just lose muscle at the same time.
> 
> I got to 16 stone naturally at 6ft in the past at about 16-18%bf, visible abs at the top


I've been 18st as I said on the other page, I didn't look 'fat',could still see abs and I wouldn't say I have high test levels(I'm not black) and my training although was good,my diet was quite poor.

How is this so? from what I can see in my experience, I gain visceral fat more than I gain subcutaneous fat so I still look 'OK',especially from the front/back but not so great from the side unless I pull in my gut.

I can quickly lose visceral fat which makes my waist size go down but lose quite a bit of fullness of the muscles and clothes look stupid on me.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2013)

It would be some feat if he did, id imagine you would have to be naturally gifted and heavy already to even come close to that.

Starting from 13st id have to say no


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I've been 18st as I said on the other page, I didn't look 'fat',could still see abs and I wouldn't say I have high test levels(I'm not black) and my training although was good,my diet was quite poor.
> 
> How is this so? from what I can see in my experience, I gain visceral fat more than I gain subcutaneous fat so I still look 'OK',especially from the front/back but not so great from the side unless I pull in my gut.
> 
> I can quickly lose visceral fat which makes my waist size go down but lose quite a bit of fullness of the muscles and clothes look stupid on me.


Indeed, You fit the description in my post of the few people who can get 18 stone naturally and aren't giants (as in very tall) or fat. you deffo have (or had) high natty test levels if this is so


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## Wasp (Nov 1, 2009)

I think anyone at that height is good at giving 18 stone a run for it's money. No doubt it will be hard work but I'm sure it can be done.


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