# Anyone else into grip training?



## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

i am a grip training fanatic. i bend nails, i use a thick bar, farmers walks, i plate pinch, i plate curl, i static hold etc etc. i would like to discuss grip training with someone to hopefully better my training.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I heard doing pullups on a board using grip only was good.

Make sure your fingers dont wrap around.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Grip is definatly the weak link. The true strength training magazines that you dont see put allot of emphasis on grip. Thats right guys throw away the straps.................


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

anyone who uses straps is kidding themselves and crying out for an injury.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

weighted chin bar holds is a good one (cheers panthro). deadlifts of course.

weve got a 85kg kettle bell at the gym that i hold for a while a few times.

never really got to grips with plate holds, never felt right somehow.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

so it just me then /


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

ok, so i know oyu guys aren't really interested in gripping. but i just got to tell you, i bought this:

Baraban "stealth" gripper 240ip

this morining. see here:

http://www.handgrippers.co.uk/bindex.html

i can already shut the CoC#1+#2 with relative ease. this is going to be a big step up, then on to the #3!!!


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

sorry, yes i love to train grip.

it helps me alot. im gonna give COC's a bash at some point. and the rolling thunder


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

what do you train your grip with ATM?

and what is it for:

pinch grip, support grip, crushing, bending etc???


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

piece of advice, if you are even halfway strong you will prolly find the CoC#1 a bit too easy. buy the #2. or the Baraban 180/210ip. Baraban grippers are the same price, look better, feel better, are better quality and are much much more accurate. i have a had a go of a #2 that is not much harder than a #1. and it should be considerabley harder.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

baraban also have a 3 for 2 offer on ATM.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

> I heard doing pullups on a board using grip only was good.
> 
> Make sure your fingers dont wrap around


is that dry humour? that sounds (if you mean what i think you mean) pretty close to impossible at any grip strength! if your body weight is over 60kg anyways.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

whooooaaaa steady on the posts matey, what you trying to do?? flood the system lol!!!!

i think hackskii means on a flat board only gripping with 4 fingers (eg door frame, etc)

im doing it so i can lift more on the deads primarily, my grip starts to give out @200kg+ so i need it for a comp coming up.

i train grip after workouts except on fridays where i do it before-hand. normally i hang from the chin bar with a weight belt holding between 20-40kg. then kettle bells afterwards


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

> on a flat board only gripping with 4 fingers (eg door frame, etc)


that wont really increase your grip strength for deadlifts mate. what you have described is primarily building finger strength only.

if improving your deadlift grip (support grip) is your goal, then you are on the right track with hangs, but still a little away from optimal.

try staic holds for 10seconds bouts, either with a standard oly bar (using a double overhand grip) or with a 2" thick bar (d/o or mixed grip).

at one stage i could d/o deadlift as much as i can m/g deadlift.

try this little routine after deadlifts day:

using 70% your DL 1RM, hold it for 10seconds and keep adding 10kg to the bar until you can no longer hold onto it using double overhand grip for 10 seconds. then start adding 5-10kg to the bar each time and keep going until you can no longer hold onto it using a mised grip for 10seconds.

at frist you will prolly only get abotu 20kg above your DL 1RM. after a few months you will be 50kg+ over your 1RM DL. and after a year or so, you wont have to mixed grip any of your deadlifts at all. oh, and your forarms will be about 1-2" bigger.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

i virtually only do d/o grip anyway its only recently that ive introduced m/g to the mix!

i havent done statics before, but whats really got me burning before is deadlift from bottom to top of movement then adding in 10 or so shrugs. that hurts my forearms

sounds good though, cheers


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2004)

why are you doing that? why not do your deadlifts, then do you shrugs after?


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

cos i hurts i suppose!!! on pull days il pyramid up on deads. once the deads are done il do some high reps on shrugs, but using the deadlift motion to start with. hard to explain, but it works well for me


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2004)

ok mate. cool. have you had a go on a thick bar? i bought one the other day. up till then i have been doing 1arm DL's with all the plate on 1 end of the bar and holding it further up (just past the plates) so i am still gripping the 2" unknurled bit. have got up to 8 plates doing that.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> anyone who uses straps is kidding themselves and crying out for an injury.


Im not kidding myself I use straps if I didnt I would be crying out for an injury......... 

na but seriously Ive got 2 pins in my right hand and have to use straps its all down to each person they are there to make working out safer the same applies to back supports its all down to personal taste. If anybody is useing straps to aid there workout thats fine. they are there to prevent injury not create injury.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2004)

wrong.

in your case they halp. you have special circumstances.

straps allow you to lift weight above and beyond what you could without. your grip strength is limited for a reason. its called inhibition. a property of the CNS that safe guards what you are doing.

every muscle in your body has this in-bulit safety factor. i assume you've all heard about superhuman feats of strength that occur from time to time, such as a mother deadlifting a car off a child in the US, or the chineese woman that reportedly fought of an urangutang that had her in a bear hug etc etc. in life or death situations your brain allows this over-ride and decreases antagonist exitation and agonist inhibition to allow you to momentarilly put your body under as much as 400% the normal stress it would allow.

when using straps you are effectively perfroming a deadlift with a supramaximal weight. its a nightmnare for your CNS and is WAY more likey to cause injury as your connective tissue is not strong enough or well conditioned enough to cope with this stress. there is also a psychological factor. when you have assistance, you are far more comfortable (emotionally) than you shuod be with weights that are approaching your 1RM. that a dangerous mindset. people get injured because they don't treat the weight with the respect it deserves. power without knowlage is stupidity.

you can't use weights that are too heavy for you when gripping d/o. mixed grip puts you at more risk, and using straps more again.

its like comapring sitting by a camp fire 2-3 times a year, to smoking 40 a day for 10 years.

the risk is very real, thats why injuries are so common.

and thats why i lift in shorts and t-shirt. no belts, no wraps, no straps, no shirt, no suit. the only things i am wearing surplus to shorts and t-shirt is chalk on my hands, socks on my feet (yes, no shoes) and a bandana.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> wrong.


What the hell why on earth most bodybuilders you see on tv and videos use straps such as ronnie coleman. Be carefull what you advice as newcomers that listen could injure them selfs.



*Straps and belts are there to prevent injury.*
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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

> weight lifting straps wrap around your wrist and then around the bar beneath your hand. Their purpose is to reinforce your grip on pulling or dumbbell exercises. Often our hand grip will become to weak to continue before the muscle we are training is fatigued.


.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

eeek!  well i believe completely in achieving the maximum overload and training each body part once a week - kind of a cross between MAX-OT and what Lee Priest uses - i personally don't use straps because i want my forearms and grip to get a good work out but i really don't see much of a problem using straps for lets say the last set - but thats the kind of training i believe in - each to their own


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Thats right crazycacti each to their own and many bodybuilders use straps.James said injuries are all to common with straps I have never heard anyone say the have been injured because of straps not heard about it on any forum.Straps and belts are aids which help AID you.



HAS ANYBODY HEARD ABOUT ANYONE INJURING THEM SELFS DIRECTLY THE FAULT OF STRAPS IF YOU HAVE OR HAVENT PLEASE POST TO HAVE YOUR SAY.
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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James says that because it lets you go heavier than you could without them. I use no belts, wraps, gloves. I train heavy. They are a crutch. If I was injured........and im not. I would work around it. I feel that most of the injuries are there because the muscle is not developed. Hardrive I totally understand where you are coming from.

Does a lion stretch and put a weight belt on before the kill? The chain is only as strong as its weakest link. I have a very good friend that got in a motorcycle accident and broke both of his arms, should have died. He is my workout partner, before and after the accident. He pushed all the same weights that I push and was 30 pounds lighter. He dosn't use straps and neither should you. Grip is the foundation of bb. I love you hardrive but I think you need to think out of the box. James is abrasive I will give you that but the info is spot on. I used to get these powerlifting magazines and it was all grip. Once again the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Using them on the last heavy set is ok but I dont. Sorry Crazycacti. Grip is the most important foundational muscle there is. I did 105 lb dumbells today for inclines. Did I use straps or a belt..........no. Hardrive I sure hope I didn't make an enemy.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> What the hell why on earth most bodybuilders you see on tv and videos use straps such as ronnie coleman


Ronnie coleman makes a living, a very healthy living (est $500 000) a year at least. he is a bodybuilder at the top of his game. in his vids he lifts enormous weights. far more than i can. squatting 800lb for a double is impressive, but should he tear something, thats goodnight sweet vienna for him and his career. in his position, it is far safer (career wise) to use straps and suits etc when working so close to his 1RM.

i would also ask that you refrain as much as possible from using caps and large fonts. i am not blind and do not like the patronising mannor of your first post. i am here to share any knowlage i have and debate in a rational mannor. we wouldn't speak like that face to face so don't do it here. thankyou.



> weight lifting straps wrap around your wrist and then around the bar beneath your hand. Their purpose is to reinforce your grip on pulling or dumbbell exercises. Often our hand grip will become to weak to continue before the muscle we are training is fatigued.


whoever wrote that should stop being a fcuking pussy bitch and strengthen his grip. then he would have no need for straps, woud he.

also, i am assuming you haven't wrote that. it is common courtsy to give a reference to credit the author when quoting. if you don't it is taken that the work is your own, and thats plagerism.<<SP?< p> sp?



> HAS ANYBODY HEARD ABOUT ANYONE INJURING THEM SELFS DIRECTLY THE FAULT OF STRAPS IF YOU HAVE OR HAVENT PLEASE POST TO HAVE YOUR SAY


most people that are injured due to straps/belts are too stupid to realise that it is the real isuue. they blame the exercise, not themselves. if i could muster up the patience to converse with thwe idiots in question i would ask 2 memeber of my gym to join here and tell you about how dangerous deadlifts are and how they ruin your back. LMFAO. tell that to andy bolton (WR holder for DL 933lbs).

Winger,



> James says that because it lets you go heavier than you could without them. I use no belts, wraps, gloves. I train heavy. They are a crutch. If I was injured........and im not. I would work around it.


couldn't agree more.

i have no desire to force my opinions on you hard drive, i am expressing an opinion that if followed correctly, will serve any lifter well.

it saddens me that i come accross "abrasive". i mean no offence. this is meant to be healthy debate, not getting one over.

anyways.

if you watch the olympics this year, you will notice that none of (or very few) of the weightlifters use straps. there grip is awesome. as is mine (relative).

i don't get shoulder pain, because my rotator cuffs get direct and specific work every week. i don't get wrist pain or fatiuged grip, because i do grip work. i don't get twinges in my neck, because i do neck work. i don't wear a belt for anything, because i do core strength ork.

the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. remove the weak links and you have a very strong chain.so strong in fact, that the weakest part of my squat, is probablly my hamstrings and glutes (the 2 prime movers).

lastly, there is an other reaosn why i hate assistance aids.

it is my opinion, that if you, and you alone, cannot lift the weight, then you have no right to claim you can. i am not interested in what you+a belt+wraps+straps+suit+shirt can lift. that tells me nothing.

apologies in advance if you take/took offence to this.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

good post james.

and i do agree to an extent, straps etc have there place and winger is a prime example


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> lastly, there is an other reaosn why i hate assistance aids.
> 
> it is my opinion, that if you, and you alone, cannot lift the weight, then you have no right to claim you can. i am not interested in what you+a belt+wraps+straps+suit+shirt can lift. that tells me nothing.


How dare you presume that I can not lift weights at least I have the desency to put my stats and pics on uk-muscle for all to see I do not care if I get banned but you are out of order firstly you tell a newbe to deadlift 3 to 5 rep's ye right.then you have the gall to say straps are dangerous and if anybody is using them they are kidding themselves, and crying out for an injury.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> How dare you presume that I can not lift weights


i am not an idiot. if the straps and belts did not give you assitsance, you wouldn't use them.

the reason being, if 2 guys can squat 200kg RAW, then they both slip on some wraps and a suit, and maybe a belt as well, then do you honestly beleive that

[a] neither guy will squat more than 200kg

and * both guys will have identical lbages with assistance.*

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i don't. one guy might get 207.5kg and the other 220kg. and yet neither is stronger as they both have the same RAW squat. hence why assisted lifts tell me nothing about how strong you are.*

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don't take thing so persoanlly. i too have my stats and pictures up on another forum i frequent more often than this one. namely ukmuscle.co.uk. (i discovered this forum by sheer accident, mistyping the **http://www**. addy in the address bar). but what does that prove? nothing, thats what.*

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> you are out of order *


 

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for what exactly? trying my best to not flame you? being polite and encouraging rational debate? how silly of me. accept my humble apologies.*

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> *firstly you tell a newbe to deadlift 3 to 5 rep's ye right*


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my point seeems to have elueded you thus far, but repeating myself is tiring and boring, so, for the final time. the very final time.*

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low reps does not have to equal heavy weight. why does that not make sense to you. doing 10x3 with 100kg is far far safer than doing 3x10 with 100kg. what part of that are you stuck with? ITS THE SAME WEIGHT. ITS THE SAME VOLUME. ITS JUST SAFER!*

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> *then you have the gall to say straps are dangerous and if anybody is using them they are kidding themselves, and crying out for an injury*


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weather it takes "gaul" or not is irrelevant. the simple fact is, straps allow you to lift above and beyon what you are capable of lifting. that makes them dangerous. if you can refute that with science and or rationale, i woud like to hear it.*

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i am sorry this thread has turned sour. TBH i am not sure why it has. harddrive, if you would like to take this to PM then i am happy to. but i would much prefer to act like an adult and continue this here.*


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

www.ukmuscle.co.uk ??????

it's not there?????


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

winger said:


> Using them on the last heavy set is ok but I dont. Sorry Crazycacti.


Np - never used them myself yet - my grip doesn't fatigue with the weights i'm using yet - good burn but i wouldn't say they fatigue. I'm working on grip a lot atm in anticipation for the heavy weights i'll be using in years to come.

I'll go cower in my corner and run off like a little girl from this one though!


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

i know. its down at the moment while they are resolving some server and security related issues.

see here for more info:

http://muscletalk.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=92936

when its back up i'll let you know. (though i do not post under the James.Titor name there).


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> I'll go cower in my corner and run off like a little girl from this one though


why? its not like i am abusing anyone. it hasn't resorted to flaming. i can't bite you. not from here at least anyway 

join in the debate, add your opinions, thats how people learn.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

I see.............what user name did you go under google might have page cashed


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> I'm working on grip a lot atm in anticipation for the heavy weights i'll be using in years to come


thats a very mature and sensible attitude, rather than burying your head in the sand, you are tackling the problem head on. and because of that, you will never need to use straps. if you the same with your core, you'll never have to wear a belt ect either.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> I see.............


meaning what? you are coming round to seeing things from my perspective? or you see that ukm.co.uk is not functioning ATM.

if you want more evidence of what i am saying about straps being the devil incarnate, have a read about these:

fortifiediron.com/.net

gripborad.com


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Has anybody injured themselves directly the cause of straps?????


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> what user name did you go under google might have page cashed


thats none of your business and totally irrelevant to the debate.

besides, i have just checked and they (google) don't.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

you never know you might reach 200 posts by the end of the day.............


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> Has anybody injured themselves directly the cause of straps?????


yes. 2 idiots from my gym have, doing rack pulls with straps and about 150% their unstrapped DL 1RM.

i have yet to come accross anyone online that admits it mind you.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

But has anybody directly injured them selfs and the cause being straps


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

so we only have your word


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> you never know you might reach 200 posts by the end of the day.............


i might just. i might just reach 300 if i have to keep replying to this thread.

who cares about post counts? imo they are the scourge of all forums. post count means nothing. you only have to go to BB.com and see all the post whores with 20 000 posts to their username, most are 16y/0 american kids that probablly don't even train.

do you have anything further to add to our discussion about straps and grip?


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> so we only have your word


you have:

1. my word (counts for very little on this board, but carries considerable weight on 2 other forums)

2. logic - i have clearly explained myopinions on several occasions, as yet you have made no attempt to rufute them with anythign substantial. let alone evidence.

3. science - look in any mediacl text book geared at sports or physiology students/post grads and you will find backup for what i have said.

what do you have to support your side of the debate?


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

I'll just say i can't wait till tomorrow to try out my lvl 1 CoC gripper - see how difficult it is - i'll be lvl 4 before u know it


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

aim high mate. the #1 is 140ip, and the #4 is 365ip. best of luck. it took me nearly 1 year to shut the #2 for reps on each hand.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

What was the no 1 like on first attempt - i went straight to that one instead of the trainer.

What's ur view on gloves then with grip - i like doing half with and half without - my hands aren't too hard atm but i like the feel without gloves.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Yes



James.Titor said:


> anyone who uses straps is kidding themselves and crying out for an injury.


Like ive said all along straps are aid to help you train if anybody wants to exercise there bicep for example and there grip fatiges before there muscles do then the bicep isnt getting the most out of that exercise. People are all diffrent some have large hands small hands large fingers small fingers or maybe a disabilaty which makes giping difficult then straps come into there own and help the user to get more out of his/her's workout. A lot of bodybulders use them on the last set this is because there grip is fatiging before there targeted musles they are working.Yes you can get idiots that think ok ill lift an extra 50k coz ive got straps idiots they are there as an aid and like everything in this world everything has its place.

When you make a statment like the above you are not only against straps and the use of but also implying that people that use straps are kidding themselves...ok why are we kidding our selves we just want to get the most out of our workout and that's kidding ourselves personaly it shows determination to strive to achive the most out of a workout which in my book admirable rather than going with out useing straps even if it is only to do the last set.

You said people are crying out for an injury if useing straps well I have only heard of the 2 people that you have mentioned and that is it....were they using the straps responsably????? if straps are dangerous why isnt it mentioned on more forums?????? they have been out for years and years.

People of uk-muscle think to your selfs how many injuries have you heard of directly the fault of straps keeping in mind they have been out for years what % could we give??????


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

i had a strong ish grip anyway for a beginner, as my job is very manual. so the #1 was easy. but unless your pulling 160kg deadlift, you'll find it a bit of a challenge. so thats good.

never wear gloves either. the hard skin (callous) will come for about 3-4months, then die down. my hands are tough as old boots, but smooth like j-lo's ass.

also, because of the thick material gloves are made of, it will make it much harder to crush the #1 with them on.

where did you order it fro? pullumsports.com? or ironmind.com?


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> where did you order it fro? pullumsports.com? or ironmind.com?


Honestly can't remember - checked out both site as i remember - def one of those two - i'll see how it goes when it get delivered


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> Like ive said all along straps are aid to help you train if anybody wants to exercise there bicep for example and there grip fatiges before there muscles do then the bicep isnt getting the most out of that exercise


so strengthen your grip FFS. stop trying to avoid your issues and tackle them. if you had a strong grip you wouldn't need them. and TBH, (no matter how condecending this sounds, i am going to say it anyway) if your grip gives out during bicep exercises, you have a seriously weak grip. hand size is no excuse. i have tiny hands.

also, your grip shouldn't even be an issue for bicep exercises, because if your training with any real conviction and intelligence, your routine wont have a enough bicep volume to fatiuge your grip.



> A lot of bodybulders use them on the last set this is because there grip is fatiging before there targeted musles they are working


what elite BBers do and what you do are two very different things. they can handle absurd volume on any exercise due to the muscle mass and 4g of test/week they have/use. you should not be training like an elite BBer unless you are one.



> ok why are we kidding our selves we just want to get the most out of our workout and that's kidding ourselves personaly it shows determination to strive to achive the most out of a workout which in my book admirable rather than going with out useing straps even if it is only to do the last set.


if i were being tactful i wouldn't even respond to this. so prepare yourself to be slightly offended:

it does not show determination. its shows a complete lack of common sense and training knowlage. it shows that rather than identify your weakness and work on bringing it up to par with the rest of your body, you are going to brush the issue under the rug and use straps to compensate for your poor training routine and lack of grip strength. and that my friend, is what i call kidding yourself.



> straps are dangerous why isnt it mentioned on more forums??????


fair point. and one i am more than happy to explain.

most forums are sh1t, full of idiots who take steroids to make up for their considerable lack of knowlage and effort.

there a a few forums where you would be laughed out the hall by now, those are the ones that encourage debate, back up opinions with fact, try to help each other:

this is one such forum, as is:

muscletalk.co.uk

ukmuscle.co.uk <-my personal fav

fortifiediron.net/.com*

*i do not reccomend you post their for a while. it may be a shock.



> People of uk-muscle think to your selfs how many injuries have you heard of directly the fault of straps keeping in mind they have been out for years what % could we give??????


for crying out loud! how many times have i stated this???

most poeple in gyms are morons that wouldn't have the first clue what injured them. it could be poor form, poor spotting, poor exercise selection, or lifting above and beyond what you can<straps.

this is the last post i will make on this forum today. i have other, more pressing things to do than sit here repeating myself. thanks for the discussion guys.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

> Honestly can't remember


well did you pay in £ or $?


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

Pounds - that would make it pullumsports.com then i seem to remember


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

> what elite BBers do and what you do are two very different things. they can handle absurd volume on any exercise due to the muscle mass and 4g of test/week they have/use. you should not be training like an elite BBer unless you are one.


Do you want to clarify this????

I train to falure I train hard and seeing good gains and im all natural at the moment.



> there a a few forums where you would be laughed out the hall by now, those are the ones that encourage debate, back up opinions with fact, try to help each other:


So why isnt it mentioned in other forums about straps and how dangerous they can be



> most forums are sh1t, full of idiots who take steroids to make up for their considerable lack of knowlage and effort.


Hope you dont mean this forum.



> it does not show determination. its shows a complete lack of common sense and training knowlage. it shows that rather than identify your weakness and work on bringing it up to par with the rest of your body, you are going to brush the issue under the rug and use straps to compensate for your poor training routine and lack of grip strength. and that my friend, is what i call kidding yourself.


So what you are saying is that if someone has got a poor grip due to disability ie arthritis, hand injury and so on should not use straps to aid them get the best out of there workout.

also if a bodybuilder uses straps to do the last set they are kidding them selfs right whatever.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hard drive, you said you have pins in the hands?

I would work on your grip but till your grip comes up use the straps for your last heavy set.

I see no problems here.

I used to use straps for pullups.

They dont let us use chalk in our gym, it is one of the pretty places. But they have heavy weights there so I am a member.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

there is a uk-muscle.com and i dont dis-believe him at all.

he has great knowledge and i personally dont beleive he is flaming you at all!!! when he says you, i take that as "one" so its no-one in particular

dont stress hardrive!!! lol


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

sorry, i only posted this when i came back to this topic, i didnt realise how much (2 pages,lol) it had proggressed!!!!!!

and i can see how people would definately injure themselves using straps, my grip fails at about 210kg on deads, but with straps i can get to about 240kg and the last time i did i had a very sore back. its jumping in at the deep end and swimming to the surface. false economy and assuming people have full function of there hands id always recommend doind exercises under your own steam instead of using training aids.

just my 2p


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

Im stressing because he is adiment that straps are dangerous and people that use them are kidding themselves.

If it wasnt for straps I would not be able to lift weights at all not only do they aid your grip they also give stability both of which I have problems with due to having pins in my right hand to keep the bones together and not to break again.My grip is so bad I can not lift a kettle full of water as the pain getts too much plus I have other problems due to a trapped tendon. Hopefully my surgery will be through soon but thats only to free the tendon as my finger loses all feeling and turnes a grey colour if it gets much worse they might have to ampitate the finger all together.

What I am trying to say is I had to give up going to the local gym as my hand was hindering my workout and silly things like bench press took time to get my grip and balance just right so that the workout wouldnt hurt or break my hand if you know what I mean.

I have seen the benifits of straps first hand pardon the pun but like ive said all along the are an aid and if you can use something to aid your workout it cant be bad.

this thread has realy got to me because of obious reasons and straps should be incoraged not discoraged.We all know that when we start weight lifting there are loads of muscles that are under developed as we dont use our bodies as nature intended we have cars, we dont hunt for our own food and so on and a new person that goes into bodybuilding might find that his week link might be his grip but to aid him straps can be used ok his grip wont get as strong as without them but his upper body will develope better with them if its his grip thats letting him down.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2004)

i am waiting for the bath to run, so ill post this quick.



> Do you want to clarify this????
> 
> I train to falure I train hard and seeing good gains and im all natural at the moment.


sure. training to failure is by no means the best way to train. but it will produce results. have a read up on S.A.I.D. (specific adaptation to imposed demand).



> So why isnt it mentioned in other forums about straps and how dangerous they can be


IT BLOODY IS! have you not rread a word i typed! go to any of the forums i mentioned and you will be in for a barrage of wake up calls.



> Hope you dont mean this forum.


at least do me the fcuking courtsy of reading my posts before attempting to reply to them.



> originaly posted by James.Titor see page 3/4 of this thread:
> 
> those are the ones that encourage debate, back up opinions with fact, try to help each other:
> 
> this is one such forum, as is:





> So what you are saying is that if someone has got a poor grip due to disability ie arthritis, hand injury and so on should not use straps to aid them get the best out of there workout.


no i have not said that at all. again you have either attempted to conviniently sweep this under the rug, or your a moron and can't read:



> originally posted by JamesTitor, see page 2 of this thread.
> 
> in your case they halp. you have special circumstances.





> also if a bodybuilder uses straps to do the last set they are kidding them selfs right whatever.


you know what, i was wrong. you do not deserve the benifit of the doubt. you are blantly a moron. as YET AGAIN you failed to read this:



> originally posted by James.Titor, see page 3.
> 
> Ronnie coleman makes a living, a very healthy living (est $500 000) a year at least. he is a bodybuilder at the top of his game. in his vids he lifts enormous weights. far more than i can. squatting 800lb for a double is impressive, but should he tear something, thats goodnight sweet vienna for him and his career. in his position, it is far safer (career wise) to use straps and suits etc when working so close to his 1RM.


so, on no less than 4 separate occasions you have asked the same question over and over and on 2 occasions attempted to put words in my mouth. this is not looking good is it.

these are the possible reasons:

#1 you ignore my answers to your Q's and re-put them to me, in an attemptto either draw me off on a tangent, or to cloud the fact i have becked up everything i have said, twice.

#2 you are a moron.

i hope its reason 1.



> originally posted by Hackskii, page 4.
> 
> Hard drive, you said you have pins in the hands?
> 
> ...


thats exactly what i said. he has specail circumstances. obviously my posts do not appear that clear on his screen.



> Originally posted by Big Pete, se page 4.
> 
> when he says you, i take that as "one" so its no-one in particular


right again.

i have on 2 occasions pointed out that for harddrive , with his special circumstances, and it therefore applies to anyone with an injury, straps can help. otherwise they are not needed.



> originally posted by big pete, see page 4.
> 
> and i can see how people would definately injure themselves using straps, my grip fails at about 210kg on deads, but with straps i can get to about 240kg and the last time i did i had a very sore back


there you go harddrive. you wanted someone elses word and not just mine, you got it.



> originally posted by bigpete, see page 4.
> 
> id always recommend doind exercises under your own steam instead of using training aids


me too.

now , harddrive. i want to end this right here.

so to sum up:

list of people who can use straps for safety/injury issues:

#1 elite/pro bbers

#2 you and other peoplewith hand/wrist injuries

list of people that should not use straps:

#1 the remaining 6 billion or so people on the planet.

i am genuinely sorry for both the tone of the thread and the petty debate. i am also annoyed that my grip thread is now ruined.

apologies to mods, to the admin/owners and other members not involved.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

emm.....



James.Titor said:


> i am waiting for the bath to run, so ill post this quick.


Hope u still have a dry bathroom  - yep this got a little out of hand - not as long running as the last winger/OSC one!  - In a way ur both bang on - harddrive has a reason for using them so that said, there is np there - both of u have said that - James.Titor just believes ur grip should catch up with ur other muscles - however if u want a freaky part of ur body like atwood's back or valentino's arms and ur grip is ok - go ahead and use grips - the majority of us that have no need to wear straps due to injury don't want this and for that reason i think we should not use straps unless u really want to push ur back say for the last set and ur grip is too fatigued - each to their own.... thats BB and PL for u though


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

Ok guys, healthy debate is one thing but this is going too far..

By all means put forward your point of view and provide evidence to substantiate the points you make, that way we can all learn.

Please refrain from 'attacking' other peoples training styles or preferences.



L


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I want to add no name calling ok guys!

Debates dont have to be won or lost just about information.

Similar to brainstorming.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

I use straps for my heaviest Deadlift set and for dumbells shrugs, so does my friend who happens to be Northern Ireland's Strongest man 3 years running (he only uses in training and not in comp of course)

Why do I use them...

1) I have very small hands and can't get right round an olympic bar or not enough for a very solid grip.

2) I shattered a bone in my right hand and damaged one of the knuckles about 5 years ago - It gives in a long time before it should when it comes to grip

Nothing wrong with using straps if it's just to pass the max weight you can grip but for the more reckless it could be dangerous, i.e. using straps to lift more than your body really can - does that make sense?


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