# Anabolic Diet & Carb Backloading



## Dh2909 (Aug 9, 2011)

Just wondering who has tried both of these diets and how you rated them for fat loss and muscle gains, if u used both in a bulk and a cut?

Anabolic Diet - Mon - Fri less than 30g carbs ED and carb load on weekends

Carb backloading - 10 day less than 30g carb initiation and only eat carbs after a workout (from what i understand)

From my reading this kind of carb controlled diet makes a lot of sense to me, I am currently 4 days in to starting the anabolic diet (feel like ****, guess tht means my body is going thru the metabolic shift) and going to be cutting in the next few weeks. Then thinking of giving carb backloading a try after a few month.

So just wondered what ppls experiace was like with these diets and IF and WHY they would recommend them

cheers!


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm going to start a backloading journal soon. Hopefully start Monday.


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## Dh2909 (Aug 9, 2011)

just finished a bulk, currently 177lbs

and Since starting the anabolic diet i have been getting between 60-65% calories from fat 30-35% protein and around 30g carbs

But with all respect im not here to have my diet analysed I know what is required of a diet, my query is about peoples experiances with the anabolic diet and carb backloading, which they prefer and why?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I've never done the Anabolic Diet, but I have done Ultimate Diet 2.0, which is conceptually very similar. I rate it highly for fat loss whilst preserving muscle.

I am currently doing carb back-loading and I have gotten stronger without putting on too much fat. I would find it difficult to say how much strength gain is down to the diet and how much down to a new training system as well as a rebound following long diet. That said, I still feel that carb back-loading is a very valid system.


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## Dh2909 (Aug 9, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> I've never done the Anabolic Diet, but I have done Ultimate Diet 2.0, which is conceptually very similar. I rate it highly for fat loss whilst preserving muscle.
> 
> I am currently doing carb back-loading and I have gotten stronger without putting on too much fat. I would find it difficult to say how much strength gain is down to the diet and how much down to a new training system as well as a rebound following long diet. That said, I still feel that carb back-loading is a very valid system.


Cheers pal, glad to know its working for ya, like I said when u read about how and why it works it does make a lot of sence, i shall let u know how i get on with the anabolic diet in a few months, if i remember lol


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## Dh2909 (Aug 9, 2011)

RS4 said:


> Sorry you feel the need to get on the defensive, im new to the game and just using this site and the helpful members knowledge to help me progress in the game. Im in no position, nor would I feel the need to critise what someone else follows and get results from
> 
> Off to google to research the anabolic diet


haha sorry mate i wasnt getting defensive, its just sometimes ppl look for cracks in everyones diet and seem to attack ppl on it, by no means am I a perfect eater but I am rather strict and do weigh everyhting i eat.

If u seach for it u can get the PDF very easily


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I can see the sense of carb back loading, and had some good experience using a similar protocol years ago as a lean bulk type diet.

A couple of points though where I think the plan as laid out by the guy who markets this plan (Keifer) goes further than necessary -

Firstly, I don't think you need a ten day full keto adaption phase. The value of this phase is to empty glycogen stores more than anything else, but you can do that in just 48 hours with <50g carbs daily, and even in a week or so of 100g or so carbs a day if you are very physically active. You can do it if you like, but will get the same benefits from the above less drastic alternate practices.

The second thing is the recommendation to choose high GI/junk carbs over lower GI carbs to aid the speed of glycogen replenishment and create super saturation. This logic is a bit of a falsehood because when glycogen stores are low and the body is in a high state of insulin sensitivity post exercise it will store carbs of any GI at maximal efficiency - you will be ok with high GI carbs, that in a sense is no problem, but the issue is if you only select junk carbs then you are displacing micronutrient rich non junk carbs for no actual benefit, and rather creating a potential sub optimal status for those micronutrients. Better to have a range of carbs including plenty of low GI healthy ones.

Am not so keen on the anabolic style diet as I don't retain lean mass well on those kinds of diets - I know the main claim of such diets is that's what happens, but that's not my experience personally.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

dtlv said:


> I can see the sense of carb back loading, and had some good experience using a similar protocol years ago as a lean bulk type diet.
> 
> A couple of points though where I think the plan as laid out by the guy who markets this plan (Keifer) goes further than necessary -
> 
> ...


However dtlv, one of the reasons why Kiefer recommends high GI carbs is so that the insulin spike goes down fairly quickly so that by morning you are in fat-loss mode.

Is Kiefer right or is it BS?


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

dtlv said:


> I can see the sense of carb back loading, and had some good experience using a similar protocol years ago as a lean bulk type diet.
> 
> A couple of points though where I think the plan as laid out by the guy who markets this plan (Keifer) goes further than necessary -
> 
> ...


Don't know if I read it right but if I have my comment will make sense.

If there isn't much point in swapping low GI carbs for high GI carbs because low GI carbs have more nutrients for us then we will never put enough carbs in our body to hit that 500-700g carbs PW phase. Tbh, I remember people on here stating they have a hard time reaching that goal eating a load of rubbish, pizza, burgers, fries, donuts, ice cream etc..

I was thinking of doing this whole CBL diet this morning when it came to mind so I'm looking around to see if many agree or have good results with it. This would only be a good idea for me if I didn't gain any BF on this diet because I'm looking to be around 8% for July, so when my cutting phase comes in I'd rather not be any higher BF as I am now.


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Anyone got keifers article?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> However dtlv, one of the reasons why Kiefer recommends high GI carbs is so that the insulin spike goes down fairly quickly so that by morning you are in fat-loss mode.
> 
> Is Kiefer right or is it BS?


Well sort of, but due to how a high density feeding of fast carbs affects the gut, huge feeds of high GI carbs basically end up being released more slowly into the bloodstream anyway - comparing two fairly small carb meals containing say 50g of glucose and the high GI meal would indeed produce a spike of insulin and then a quick drop off and period of low insulin elevation before reaching baseline and the low GI feed would produce a less spiked shape on a graph with a smaller eleveation and slower drop off.

When the size of the feed is increased however, say to 200g, gastric motility slows down considerably with high GI stuff and the fast carbs stay in the gut for longer, and the resulting insulin release pattern actually shifts more closely to that of a lower GI carb - the main difference being though that you usually get stomach ache and tummy bloating from the slowed gastric emptying.

Another point is that the total insulin release time period following even a slow release carb is usually no more than around 180-240 mins max - which is actually the same for a high GI carb! The only main difference is that with a high GI carb more insulin is secreted early in that time, whereas in the low GI it's more spread.

Keifer is someone whose passion I like, and love the fact he tries to find new solutions to old problems, but his background as a physicist and not a biologist does show through sometimes in his lack of all round knowledge about things. I remember him going on about how food takes up to 72 hrs to digest and that therefore the release of kcals from a meal takes many days... unfortunately he missed a very basic bit of understanding of the processes in the digestive tract and how they are sequenced, and seemed unaware that although food does indeed take up to 72 hrs between consumption and excretion, around 95% of kcals are digested from food in the first 30mins-5 hours (7hours at an absolute push for fats and protein) and the rest of the time is simply stored in the colon where fluid and some minerals are absorbed.

In respect of proteins having a long digestion time too, more potentially limiting to fat burning than slow release carbs at night is casein, which is a very insulinic protein that raises insulin for around seven hours - this is longer than from an equal quantity of carbs (all whole proteins elevate insulin longer than weight equivalent carbohydrate feeds because the aminos take twice as long to feed into the bloodstream as carbs do).

A final point is if carb dodging due to insulin sensitivity issues, the high GI carbs will not help baseline insulin sensitivity because of how fast carbs are mostly high fructose carbs and how those impair insulin sensitivity in the liver and pancreas compared to low GI carbs which usually contain less fructose and higher glucose which doesn't have this negative effect.... if however your insulin sensitivity is good, then you will process either carb efficiently so still no advantage to backloading for isnulin sensitivity.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Juic3Up said:


> Don't know if I read it right but if I have my comment will make sense.
> 
> If there isn't much point in swapping low GI carbs for high GI carbs because low GI carbs have more nutrients for us then we will never put enough carbs in our body to hit that 500-700g carbs PW phase. Tbh, I remember people on here stating they have a hard time reaching that goal eating a load of rubbish, pizza, burgers, fries, donuts, ice cream etc..
> 
> I was thinking of doing this whole CBL diet this morning when it came to mind so I'm looking around to see if many agree or have good results with it. This would only be a good idea for me if I didn't gain any BF on this diet because I'm looking to be around 8% for July, so when my cutting phase comes in I'd rather not be any higher BF as I am now.


Very true that it's hard to eat high volume of carbs, especially from healthier carbs alone (other than perhaps oats, barley, dairy if you can tolerate it), so just mix it up - don't go exclusively high GI, that's all I'm saying.

You also don't have to go any higher than 3g carbs per kg bodyweight IMO, because that equates to the total 24 hr glucose demand for the muscles and internal organs for a typical adult... when you go higher than this, that is when fat storage from carbs becomes more of a likely issue.

When I do this kind of diet its around 250g carbs mostly all in the evening, and then 200-240g protein and 90-100g fat spread over the whole day.


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## Dh2909 (Aug 9, 2011)

I didnt realise that the carb backloading required so many carbs! 3x kg bodyweight?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@dtlv - I just tried to rep you for your reply but apparently I need to spread more reps around to other people before repping you again.

That was a beautiful explanation you just gave there!

What is your degree in? Do you also have a postdoc? You never fail to impress me when explaining anything and everything related to training/diet/physiology/PEDS (which you never discuss too much but I know that you still nevertheless know alot about despite lack of self-administration).


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