# What is strong??



## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Saw this posted in a journal on elitefts.com

Also is strength endurance not an all out max but i thought the numbers look good although squat is set too high compared to other lifts IMO.

*What constitutes strong?*

*
*

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*This is something that is debated back and forth all the time by lifters. A long time ago I had a "star system" where I set up lifts for 5 rep maxes and what level it was placed on. Like "weak, average, strong, elite" that kind of thing. It stirred up quite a bit of discussion on the small board I posted on at the time. I thought it was good food for thought.

I go back and forth with this sort of thing all the time with Jim Wendler of elitefts and so I figured what the heck, I'd throw some numbers up that we have been chatting about that would constitute really diesel elite-level lifting for reps.

*Bench Press - 315x20 *

I took notice of this after Eric Lilliebridge sent me his training log. Most all of the 500+ bench pressers I know can hit around 315 for 20-22 reps or so. And even if you couldn't bench 500, if you could do 315x20 you'd be damn big and strong. No getting around that.

*Dips - 200x10*

Jim says this is ridiculous. I left it at 200x10 for that very reason. I mean we're talking elite level right?

*Chins - 100x10*

Some skinny guys that are naturally built for chinning might be able to hit this. But we're talking dead-stop chins all the way up. Not that forehead to the bar ****. This is diesel chinning/back strength, especially for guys over 200 pounds.

*Squats and Deadlifts - 500x20*

Yeah sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That's the point. Using a calculator this would come out to an 800 squat or dead. Mind you, the point here isn't that if you worked up to this you would be hitting an 800 squat or dead, but you'd damn sure have increased your 1 rep max and you'd be a walking Hulk to boot. Second, all of that mass would have increased your 1 rep max ceiling. Meaning you probably would be able to translate those reps into an 800 squat or dead after specializing in some singles for a while. Good stuff all around.

*Standing Strict Press - 315x1*

No push press crap. Lots of guy can do push press numbers that look good but then fall flat on their face come strict press time. This is the one lift where we never talked about reps but just about putting 3 wheels overhead. I was probably good for this at one time (275x3 strict) but I do my standing press from a clean. I couldn't hang clean 315 so I never got a shot. After August I am going to take a real run at this over the next 12 months.

*Barbell Curls - 185 x 10*

Again, strict. I don't think we discussed this one too much but it's there (I think).


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

So who has managed any on the list???

I have done none of those, closest ive managed is bench with 17 reps done at the end of a heavy session so fresh could prob have got that.

Squat is set too high compared to others imo, obv easier to pull 500 for 20 compared to squat it below par for 20 reps.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

My son's "winky" ????


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## Martin Jones (Apr 14, 2009)

We are talking about athletes here, not your average gym goer. I can do some of the lifts on here. Chins and bench would be my weakness.

Squat and deads are about right. You are considered strong if you can do these numbers.


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

Only another 7k to make the strict military press,ill try in a couple of weeks!


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

I think i would manage the deadlift, 5 plates for 20 reps would be hard though i routinely have hit in the mid teens but yeah i think i could manage it. Squat also if we are not talking olympic depth but my hips wouldn't thank me for it.

I couldn't hit the other numbers.....


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

I think its a good list, massive well done if you can achieve all of those!


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Martin Jones said:


> We are talking about athletes here, not your average gym goer. I can do some of the lifts on here. Chins and bench would be my weakness.
> 
> Squat and deads are about right. You are considered strong if you can do these numbers.


That is v impressive to do any imo so being able to do more than one is great:thumbup1:

Which can you do?? (being a strongman my guess would be the press, deadlift and possibly the squat??)

Con- squat 227.5 below par for 20 reps and i will be mighty impressed (yes i am doubting you could do it ), probably the hardest one on the list imo although i do believe the 227.5 x 20 dead is definately in you.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Dig said:


> That is v impressive to do any imo so being able to do more than one is great:thumbup1:
> 
> Which can you do??
> 
> Con- squat 227.5 below par for 20 reps and i will be mighty impressed (yes i am doubting you could do it ), probably the hardest one on the list imo although i do believe the 227.5 x 20 dead is definately in you.


Ah no i am talking about "loose" squats Neil, you know knee bends

Surprised at the bench tbh because i can get into the teens with no problem and i am weak as a kitten on pressing movements....

I think i will do the deadlift one next week just for the hell of it....


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Lois_Lane said:


> Ah no i am talking about "loose" squats Neil, you know knee bends
> 
> Surprised at the bench tbh because i can get into the teens with no problem and i am weak as a kitten on pressing movements....
> 
> I think i will do the deadlift one next week just for the hell of it....


Lol:lol:

Agree, the bench is set low. Then again the guys i know who can bench 315 x 20 bench around 220-227.5 raw which is not too shabby.

Get a vid of the deadlifts, will be impressive, not actually doubting the fact that you could them


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

I come nowhere near to any of them lifts. But I'm a bodybuilder so it doesn't matter. Having said that I'd be a bigger fookin bodybuilder if could do any of them lifts.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> I come nowhere near to any of them lifts. But I'm a bodybuilder so it doesn't matter. Having said that I'd be a bigger fookin bodybuilder if could do any of them lifts.


Ah that's where i have been going wrong i should have been lifting the 5lbers with ultra slow rep momentum THEN i would be a pro by now:cursing:

If i manage it i will have a video up, if i don't well i wont talk about it again until i manage it


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## Martin Jones (Apr 14, 2009)

Dig said:


> That is v impressive to do any imo so being able to do more than one is great:thumbup1:
> 
> Which can you do?? (being a strongman my guess would be the press, deadlift and possibly the squat??)


Thank you. But in my world there are plenty of guys that will **** that. I'm just a little fish in a big pond.

Yeah the squat, dead and press. Squat I would probably fail at the moment but the others would be no problem, well doable anyway


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Martin Jones said:


> Thank you. But in my world there are plenty of guys that will **** that. I'm just a little fish in a big pond.
> 
> Yeah the squat, dead and press. Squat I would probably fail at the moment but the others would be no problem, well doable anyway


Are you an open or a 105kg strongman?

Very impressive........ :beer:


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> i doubt many doing any of these
> 
> the dead with exception
> 
> ...


Well i hit 440lb for 21 with no pause at the floor or lock out as those were the rules. With pauses on the floor 500lb for 20 would be very doable.


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

The only person that you should doubt here dutch,is me,the rest who have made claims on this thread are well respected in the strength game,im just some random fcuker on the net mate!


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## WRT (May 21, 2009)

Poss chins, thats it.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Hey dan not really cos you video everything you do.


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

I remember when t-nation did a 20 rep squat comp

this guy did well


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## A4RON (Apr 19, 2010)

Would it be more appropriate to base it on bodyweight?

For example:- 100kg BBer

Bench: 1.5 to 2 X bw 150kg-200kg

Squat: 2.5 X bw 250kg

Deadlift: 3 X bw 300kg


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Martin Jones said:


> Thank you. But in my world there are plenty of guys that will **** that. I'm just a little fish in a big pond.
> 
> Yeah the *squat, dead and press*. Squat I would probably fail at the moment but the others would be no problem, well doable anyway


Good stuff :thumbup1:


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

A4RON said:


> Would it be more appropriate to base it on bodyweight?
> 
> For example:- 100kg BBer
> 
> ...


It would be generally but in this case it's what someone percieves to be strong lifts, not strong for your bodyweight. ie no matter how you cut it pulling 500lb x 20 reps is strong

Eg strongman doesnt have lots of weight classes as it's about lifting heavy weights not heavy weights compared to bw (just 105 cut off to my knowledge could be wrong).


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

A4RON said:


> Would it be more appropriate to base it on bodyweight?
> 
> For example:- 100kg BBer
> 
> ...


I'd disagree, that's why I like this list

- Height plays a big part: The trouble is with bodyweight ratios - a taller lifter would weigh more because of his height, yet if you found someone the same weight as him who is a lot smaller, they are likely to be built like a tank and stronger.

- Being lighter, its easier to achieve say a 2 x bodyweight squat (for example) Say someone weighs 60kg, they'll achieve a 120kg squat far before someone who weighs 100kg achieves a 200kg squat

- Look at Olympic weightlifting records. It shows diminishing returns - as someone gets heavier, the difference in weight lifted to their weight reduces significantly

The 62kg world record snatch is 152.5kg - which almost 2.5 times bodyweight

The 105kg world record snatch is 200kg - which is less than 2 times bodyweight

See what I'm getting at?

That's why I think the list posted here is excellent. If you're completing all of those lifts, you're going to be very big, and very strong, regardless of height / weight / bodyweight ratios.


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## A4RON (Apr 19, 2010)

Yeah I see what you're getting at, makes more sense now I think about it :thumb:

Suppose that's why the Olympic 77kg class is regarded as the toughest pound-for-pound.

I wasn't doubting that list at all, as huge respect has to go to anyone who can manage even one of those lifts...


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## Martin Jones (Apr 14, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Are you an open or a 105kg strongman?
> 
> Very impressive........ :beer:


I used to be u105kg, was pretty good too. Now I'm open weight and have been hit with injuries far to often.

I'm out at the moment and just doing some bodybuilding to rest the joints and increase the muscle size. Will revert back to strength training soon though.


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## Martin Jones (Apr 14, 2009)

Here's a link to a u105kg website that has just been created by a mate of mine. I've been mentioned in the hall of fame.

http://uk105strongman.webs.com/105athletehalloffame.htm


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Martin Jones said:


> Here's a link to a u105kg website that has just been created by a mate of mine. I've been mentioned in the hall of fame.
> 
> http://uk105strongman.webs.com/105athletehalloffame.htm


Nice one mate, impressive achievements you've got there:beer:


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## Martin Jones (Apr 14, 2009)

Dig said:


> Nice one mate, impressive achievements you've got there:beer:


Thank you. I just hope I can carry on and wins some more comps.


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

Dig said:


> Nice one mate, impressive achievements you've got there:beer:


X2 welldone,great acheavements!


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