# Squats form..



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

[video=youtube;zM91TTVdY7I]





 i read lots of people squatting more than me and the same as me and i`m at times surprised at the weights stated, due to length of training and general impressions from journals.sx dave and trix put a couple of vids up recently and i think i helped sort theyre form, so please feel free to critique mine and stick your vids up too, we might all learn something..:biggrin1:


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

ah you see bud i thought i was not supposed to lock out which i have sorted now and dont completely straighten my legs, it looks as though your not completely locking out but i thought you wasnt supposed to go upright?


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

your bar look bent is it bud And your feet are wide does that help bud


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

wider the better i find im limited to how wide i can out my feet on my plate but might get a bigger foot plate made so i can go wider


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Couldnt agree with Cals post and the above more!

Tightening things up has forced my weights to lower but feel it so much more! Its a good arguement for leg/muscle size Vs weight moved. I think my legs are around Cals size and im squating around the same, Flegs are bigger and he lifts more lol


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Somehow feel this thread is aimed at my 132.5's!!

Not looking forward to having my form torn to shreds when I drive through to see you....


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Care to share your upper leg measurement Dorsey? maybe your a buck in the trend of muscle size = strength lol


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ha but with skinny legs!!


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

SX Dave said:


> Care to share your upper leg measurement Dorsey? maybe your a buck in the trend of muscle size = strength lol


Never even measured them tbh mate, wouldn't know where to do it exactly??


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Cheers Doggy but your faith may well be misplaced! Ha.

I THINK general form is ok (been told it is but maybe not to Cal's standards)...main issue is likely to be ROM in my opinion.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ok, just feedin the nipper so will do it in a min. Be prepared for them to be a similar size to your arms though!!!


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Granted iv worked with many blokes who are a small build but practically strong as an ox!


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Come on then dudes, take a wild guess before I spill the beans???


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

20" as a guess?


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Just measured mine I'd say you was above 20" I'd say 22" 23"?


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ha, 26 Greg??! You gotta be fcukin kiddin dude!!

16" on the lower quad just above the knee, 21ish towards the middle and 23.5 up towards the top - no idea which part is classed as the correct one?!?


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ps what were yours Dave??


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Wish i'd taken some measurements at the start cuz I'd say they have grown...only a tad though!

As has been said before, I bulk like a spider!!


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Just measured mine at 28" fellas then realised my "piece" was hanging down that thigh... Measure the other an it was 22"


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Mine where about 25"


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

OK just had to measure mine to compare 25.5. So weight lifted cant compare to leg size because I squat like a 10 year old girl.

Cal good vid. I keep my feet about shoulder width so Ill give this a try see if I can improve these skinny pins.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

just got in..

will say one thing, individual girths are impressive when height, weight and bf% are all taken into account..

not as a standalone measurement.

i train alot of dudes with 26-30" legs lol

i intend to hit 130-140kg this years for 10`s.

doing the weight once means sh1t, its when the weights are done week in week out for months then years with a decent weight you get the real results..

i`m less bothered by ROM (altho i wouldnt like it any less) and less bothered by the actual number saying that..

i simply want to see that number going up..

the weight is nothing more than a marker..

my sldl prove that, i dislike how partial they are, but i`m forced to trade off ROM for weight..


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Just done mine 23" not too bad. I do agree I think form could be related to size in legs and weight lifted. Although as said there is an exception to the group. The small guy lol


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I just looked my thighs are an inch bigger than Zack khans calves Lmfao


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

TheCrazyCal said:


> will say one thing, individual girths are impressive when height, weight and bf% are all taken into account..
> 
> not as a standalone measurement.
> 
> .


This was my thought later last night too, but didn't post. It the while package as it were.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

my legs i think are about 23" and cut that compares to a fat thigh of many inches more lol (thats my excuse and im sticking to it like superglue lol, its irrelavant i cant carry that much bf lol)

every time i cut i get more cuts in my quads, as i sloooooowly add weight  they dont chnage i hold the fcuking lot on my torso


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Yeah a slightly fatter thigh of about 25" lol


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Mine are coming on quite nicely I can see a few more cuts in there now. Which is good


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

so is anyone gonna stick a vid up of theyre squats?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

eeexcllent 

if i can dare to expose my calves no one should have any excuses lol


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Fcuk it, about time I joined the party:






That was my second set @ 165 yesterday morning. Could defo notice the diff doing them early doors, strength and energy were both down compared to normal. Cal says I need to perhaps just hold it a tad longer in the top position which wont be a prob. Also maybe need to remember to keep chest up and shoulders pinched back at times, easy to forget when you're repping though. All being said, i'm fairly happy.

Then...






Did these straight after deads so only did a quick set @ 100 merely to video form. Cal says I need to sit my hips back more at the start of the decent to help increase overall ROM. I'm doing legs tomorrow or Tues so i'll see if I can correct it slightly and post something up again.

Any other pearls of wisdom??

(Fcuk me, cant believe i've posted those as it goes - it'll be top-off next!!!)


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Just out of interest Dorsey what are your deads on an oly bar?


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Not used one in yonks dude!! MIGHT consider going back once i've massaged my ego with 200 on the trap-bar!!


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

It was just out of interest to see how much if more can be done using a trap bar. Do you find it easier using the trap bar?


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah, being tall ish with terrible flexibility I find it helps with form no end...and of course it means you can add a good 10-20% extra to the bar i'd say.

As i've said before though, if you can lift from the floor with good form stick with it cuz once you switch to a TB and see the poundages increase you wont want to go back!!


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I've Got no choice anyway mate lol


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ha, cheers dude. Soul Cal, followed me to near enough every training session for almost 2 yrs now!!

Points taken on both accounts, pretty much as Cal said. I'm fairly happy with deads but will work on the squeeze at the top.

As for squats, ROM has always been an issue. Cal's given me a vivid description of how to approach it though so will see if that's of any use come Monday. Would love to drive through to have a session with him, or up to Neil for that matter, but both live so bloody far away. 2 hrs with the right person and I'd have any form issues completely ironed out across the board I reckon.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ta. I don't normally squat downstairs in that little room but its the only way I could record anything on my todd. I'll maybe head down there tomorrow for legs to see if I can straighten things out a little.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

real men vid theyre form.. RRRRRRRRRESPEC dude..


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Big respect to the numbers you guys do and the braveness to put self out there to be critiqued!

One day!!!


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I need to do a Vid I'll try and get one done


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

jordan0689 said:


> I need to do a Vid I'll try and get one done


uncle cals waiting dude... mmmm...


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

^^^^ absolutely agree with fleg I wish I came on here when I first started training. I would be so much more ahead now.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Gym, downstairs in a little 'dungeon'...didn't even know it was there for the first 3 months!!

I class trap-bar as 25kg, it could be a touch more but i'd say that's about right give it take.


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

dorsay i know i ask daf things You let it touch the floorThis is the right way when dead lifting I love to try that bar Dont think we got one at the gym


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah, it should touch the floor Meeks. Some ppl literally only tap the floor with it then go again using the overall momentum. I prefer to settle it right back down so I can feel myself taking the weight again fully on each lift.

It's good to ask lots of Q's dude, that's how we learn afterall.


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

thanks mate You right behind all my s**t I really want to learn bud


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

Dorsey said:


> Yeah, it should touch the floor Meeks. Some ppl literally only tap the floor with it then go again using the overall momentum. I prefer to settle it right back down so I can feel myself taking the weight again fully on each lift.
> 
> It's good to ask lots of Q's dude, that's how we learn afterall.


Good vid Dorsey. Why put the bar down and start again, would it not be better to go almost to the floor and keep tension? To me it's like doing squats and racking the bar every time you come back up. Just curious as i dont put it down, maybe i'm wrong.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Dunno, just the way I've always approached it personally I guess. I see a deadlift as being exactly that, lifting a dead weight from the floor for each rep.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

RR if you dont put the bar down youre replicating a squat and limiting yourself with how long you can hold the bar.

dorsey, good man for doing em singley and MOST importantly keeping your body tight at the start of EVERY lift and not jerking it up.

i really dislike the turn around point being mid air rather than solid surface to make sure your get the depth, only exception being sldl where the floor for me aint an option..

did this hmm 18 months back

[video=vimeo;12856777]






dorsey, since ive learned to do squats and deads with a straight bar, there are aspect of the form used i`d change (iwasnt intentionally leading with my chest as i would now and my ass would be higher..

i tried trap bar for the first time properly in a year last week and i set myself up and lifted using apsects of what straight bar ive learned..

gonna be great meeting up with you cos ive only had one dude who could really nail trap bar who ive trained and i need to hone me technique..

its different doing a lift great yourself and another entirely to teach it..

hence the best physique doesnt always give the best advice for anyone except themselves..


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

one thing,

you displayed ZERO AGGRESSION dude, youre all focus and no adrenaline..

next time you lift, give it some bollox.

frank and yannny were surprisingly similar..

come SummerSlam i`ll show you some aggression as will flint who took to it like a priest on a choir boy lol


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Chuckling..... I've put maybe on Facebook cal, don't think I'd pull but be great to see some of you guys at it!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

phil it`d be great to meet you and hey a maybe looks good to the 3 who`re already coming lol.. one is missus cal 

i`m hoping if 5 come from here and i can get 5 clients round it should be a good laugh realistically many more than that and theres gonn abe a lot of standing around..

so far,

frank yanny michelle flint fleg (woohoo) possibly smudger or sx dave depending who`s b day it is lol 2 nath who used to come on here and ladies physique competitor he knows, steady on frankster!

5 clients if i`m lucky..

if saturday was anything to go by it`ll be worth the trip


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## Lazyballs (Apr 22, 2012)

TheCrazyCal said:


> one thing,
> 
> you displayed ZERO AGGRESSION dude, youre all focus and no adrenaline..
> 
> ...


class

like a priest on a choir boy


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i see your from belfast.. i suspect you wont make it lol..


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## Lazyballs (Apr 22, 2012)

Bit far out for me cal . I have mass to go to altar boy and that . Hehe ???


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Mass?? Sit down stand up sit down stand up.... Wish the priest just pick a position and fcuk me! Thought I'd jump on band wagon.

Cal tried thrusting ass back in squats today. Very new type of pain!!

But on plus side, first time I've not felt any pain from bar without padding letting it rest lower on back muscles rather than neck.

First time also I've tried legs wider than shoulders, much steadier. Less buckling etc.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

cool matey 

shrug your shoulders up and keep your chest high and you`ll keep bar from hurting so much and it`ll keep your lower back nice n arched.

something obvious i have said is to push with your hips from the bottom and not just push thru with your legs as i used to..

i cant explain it any better than that right now but i`ll do a quick vid tomoz using a bodyweight squat as an example and it`ll be a piece of p1ss to understand 

it might be obvious to most but it wasnt for me despite sitting back..

heres how i used to do em..

[video=vimeo;9597647]






compare that to my new vid and you`ll see i push from the bottom in a different way..altho still sitting back..

hmm i`m pushing with my feet in that one rather than my hips, its a subtle difference but injury wise, crippling massive for me..


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

View attachment 3308


As much as I would love to go its a 6 hour journey for me


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

TheCrazyCal said:


> ...something obvious i have said is to push with your hips from the bottom and not just push thru with your legs as i used to..
> 
> i cant explain it any better than that...


Riptoe explains it well I think, says to imagine the bar is resting on your lower back instead of traps.

You're right, was little aggression in that particular clip. I also took one of the next set which shows more but I ripped my top straight off afterwards so I won't be posting that one just yet!


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Good Videos bud good on you for posting them up, gonna put my revised squat on the leverage for some more ripping as still not sure its correct as dont feel right , we might eventually see a full body shot from you soon =-)


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Ha, we may. 

I said June/July and I stand by that...although it seems to be coming round far too quickly!!


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## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

Dorsey said:


> Gym, downstairs in a little 'dungeon'...didn't even know it was there for the first 3 months!!


Haha! My gym is like a dungeon, a caveman gym lol, no windows where I train, just bright lights and lost of sweat on the walls, Best gym Ive trained at, just how I like it. Dont like the big commercial gyms Ive trained at in the past, DW for example.


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## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

Seems only right to put my video in the appropriate section now that we have a specific thread for it. 

[video=youtube;kIbrzKQxLuM]


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i`m liking this, we`re no cutting thru the BS and really getting to know each other and what the realities are..

Respec trix..

got some nice pre workout phone sex from dorsey today, he sounds mmmm loverly 

now who havent i had on MC lol..

Gregg...

YOUR NEXT!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

btw trix youve got running shoes on, get some thin soled trainers bud or go commando..


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## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> btw trix youve got running shoes on, get some thin soled trainers bud or go commando..


Its funny you say that, I do go bare foot, I had the idea of doing the video after I finished my legs workout, thats probably why I wobbled at the knees too on 100k. I prefer bare foot


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i had another look at it bud and you may be right,(cant remember if i said or not)but i`d say its cos altho your going down quite slow it could be more controlled, but more than that i reckon you could build up more tension on the way down, this`ll stopp the wobble too..

keep your legs stiffer :wink:


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

So, reviewed my squat form tonight following feedback over the wkd:

Original form @ 100kg






Revised @ 60kg






Revised @ 80kg






Revised @ 90kg






Revised @ 100kg






Really tried to nail getting the hips out as far as possible on the initial decent. Or as Cal put it, imagine a pair of lips being pursed up ready to take a straw... (or something like that)

What we thinking?


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

You could be right, hard to tell on my phone, not sure if it's the slight camera angle or not. Perhaps the chest needs to go up a bit more...

[email protected], proper thought i'd smashed it this time you know!!!


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

I see what you mean. Now I would say all three of those examples are poles apart from what Cal's trying to promote? Wide stance, sitting hips as far back as poss, arc...

Two totally different techniques surely?


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

Good vid Fleg, just wish i had real broadband. Ill try and get it more like that next week.

I'm glad Cal started this thread, some serious stuff at last.

Dorsey I changed my stance tonight, thought i'd got it right but looking at your vid i would say i'm making the same mistakes as you. Although i did go lower.

Keep it coming guy's we poor armatures need to get this nailed.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)




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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah, was just googling high v low bar myself. Cal is obviously a big Rippetoe fan so I'm guessing he's also one for the low bar - which I'd say is where I was at tonight although I poss had the bar slightly too high. I think that's linked to shoulder issues as I get pain when trying to grip too far behind the neck.

Anyhoo, can defo see where you're coming from re good mornings as I thought exactly the same when I originally saw Cal's recent clip - a bit like a jackknife movement. I must admit though, I felt absolutely zero strain on my lower back tonight which is a first in recent times.

I'd be interested to hear his take on it all next time he logs on...


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Dorsey said:


> So, reviewed my squat form tonight following feedback over the wkd:
> 
> Original form @ 100kg
> 
> ...


for every inch your hips go back your shoulders/chest moves 2" forward..

it needs a 1:1 ration bud.

i`m not a ripptoe fan perse, but he`s the geezer who promoted 5x5 that everyone wants to do..

basically he`s one of the few coaches ive heard of.. and world famous.. (im not a huge poliquin fan it seems either..)

i liked how he spoke on the vids, clear and concise..

i believe cos i`m not quite as well researched as you all think, that what i do and what he promotes is a powerlifting squat,

btw those vids showed dudes with theyre knees over theyre toes.. dont care how much it grows they aint gonna be lifting in 20 years time..

the best ROM or form is the one that grows the most muscle, over the longest period of time, with a minimum of risk of injury, thereby allowing consistency..

that folks is the boring truth..


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Agree with that and can tell you now for sure, my knees already wouldn't handle that kind of movement. It's the exact reason I stopped doing front squats which are very similar.

So, in summary: lower half is pretty much spot on, just now need to work on keeping chest/shoulders up/back and perhaps review bar positioning just slightly?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i wouldnt put it quite like that bud, but i see why you`d phrase it like that..

imo a ratio of 1:2 is just wrong.

another way of thinking about it is as your ass n shoulders being counter balances to each other..

ive got lots of lil tricks n phrases and techniques ive built up in last yearr..


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Hence why a couple of hrs together would possibly correct form issues once and for all. Just finding the time to take a day out....

In the meantime, back to the feckin drawing board by the sound of it!!!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

think about moving your hips back not down mate.

allow some leg bend .

use a light bar, and purposely sit your ass back an inch and shoulders 1 inch..

try a limited ROM and work into it..


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Definately going to be filming my squats this week for some Cal critique !!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

flattered dude..


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Dont Ben, it's a fcukin can of worms once you get started!!!


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

i find it easier to sit right back because on the leverage bar im kind of held into it so balance is not so much of an issue and you can get really low for depth, and because of the depth i find i have to drive with hips then legs, my only question which is still bugging me is to go completely upright or not, i find not locking out and keeping more tension on the legs they tire more as when going completley upright i get a little rest? think i will stick with the pain tho


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I think this thread is got go on for ever. Everyone seems to have their own ideas on what's the best way to do it


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

It's good though eh J, interesting to see what we're all actually doing and what the powers-that-be think.

Loz, post your squat clip again dude?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

lozza you never lock out on anything :wink:

J there may be many ways, but there is a safest and i reckon its mine..

if you havent got the ROM cos of flexibilty you make do with less, you still add weight in the same way, the poundage is just a marker..

the marker needs to go up, usually 2 steps forward one step back.


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

squat vid leverage - YouTube

heres the link to the new video, wont let me load the vid into the post on here which is a shame,@cal when i say lock out i mean get fully upright as there seems to be a few vids on here showng that bud which is what i was doing and others on here seem to be going upright which i was advised not to do which i have taken on board and is harder i must admit, i was just a little confused as some of the form vids seem to show the individual extending right up that was all


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

if you keep your arse out like a duck and your chest high you`ll help force the lower back to stay arched.

this is the strongest safest position to take a pause at.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

just looked, you just not really finishing the top of the move mate.. come abit higher and keep chest n ass out.

i`d take all the momentum out of the bottom of the ROM or as much as you can, almost come to a stop but just imperceptibly change direction.

again,slow em down, build up tension on the negative and explode up with total control..


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yup ^^^

tbh just watch my vid lozza and try and copy body positioning..


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I was just about to say that lol


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

yeah got you on that one wasnt feeling right when i get to the top of the ROM so will try a little higher and stick my backside out a bit more fcuk it gonna hit the wall might need to move the jcb, i will slow right down towards the bottom i do anyways but only when the weight goes above 100kg good advice as always there bud thanks again, in the end though i will need a rack and a bigger house


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

portrait of controlled fury dude 

lets see your rock n roll set at above 100 bud..


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i feel it from here everytime you train dude..


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

lol that was 100 excl the lev bar,maybe its the music, i will video next mondays leg day slow it right down ,slower with louder music =-)its defo working my legs though i find the frame helps me keep my body aligned though also, will be iinteresting to see how my balance fairs when i have a go on a rack

cheers guys


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

Nice vid, I actually got most of it.

Well feck me with a d/b, what you show there is what i've been doing all along so i've been trying to fix something that ain't broken  . The only thing i have to work on is my knee's have a tendency to try and come together as i get tired, but i am trying to correct this by pointing my toe's out more.

At last a result.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Don't feel as though I can comment in the slightest now dude...

Obviously the complete opposite of the approach I'm going for but all seems to look good. ROM is most def there.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Fleg I'm no expert so excuse this of misguided, I'm trying to stop my knees going forward over my toes... Do you worry about that or is the rom more important to you?

You have great rom and get down low, but knees like mine go out over toes. Is it something you think needs work on or not much of an issue?


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

I tried it without any weight at all and felt like I worked different part of thigh keeping shins vertical and restricting that movement.

To do this you force hips, ass backwards and it is an unnatural feeling that is slightly un balanced.

Now I may be off mark but that's what I'm trying to work to. But I'd rather find out if that's unrealistic or unpractical way of squatting. I like this place as noone despite advanced status talks down really when looking at form and theory... It's interesting!!


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

fleg said:


> Ya know Phil you've really made me think about that mate I'm going to try again next week to keep knees as much behind my toes as possible, not that I'm driving with my toes. You've got me thinking...


Come on mate dont you start doubting your form or i'm screwed.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

RR like you I think my old or normal squatting looks like fleg, well in my head it does! Just I don't go much past parallel to ground.

I'm just trying to see if I should be working on mine or whether i should stick to what I know!


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

philb125 said:


> I tried it without any weight at all and felt like I worked different part of thigh keeping shins vertical and restricting that movement. Now theres a thought
> 
> To do this you force hips, ass backwards and it is an unnatural feeling that is slightly un balanced.
> 
> Now I may be off mark but that's what I'm trying to work to. But I'd rather find out if that's unrealistic or unpractical way of squatting. I like this place as noone despite advanced status talks down really when looking at form and theory... It's interesting!!


I have often thought that different foot placement narrower/wider, toes front, toes out, worked different parts of the muscle, so maybe everyone is correct, you just need to change things around for full development. Comments please.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Leg session is Friday, I'll do it then. Dead lifts Monday too as I'm thinking they are biggest exercises to nail!

I bet it's shocking what actually looks like!


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

philb125 said:


> RR like you I think my old or normal squatting looks like fleg, well in my head it does! Just I don't go much past parallel to ground.
> 
> I'm just trying to see if I should be working on mine or whether i should stick to what I know!


Maybe ATG has a place, just as partials do.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

roadrunner1 said:


> Maybe ATG has a place, just as partials do.


It's weird see when I first started from a fitness point view I was told don't cross parallel, toes forward and shoulder width.... Few years later and it's wider stance, atg, toes out.

I quite like trying to understand why I'm doing stuff and what it's supposed to achieve so I like this type of thread.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

fleg said:


> Get a video up both of you. I tell you what, it doesnt look like it feels.


Amen to that brother but as I said earlier, it opens up a right can of worms once you do post something!!


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

Dorsey said:


> Amen to that brother but as I said earlier, it opens up a right can of worms once you do post something!!


I'll try and get one just for you Dorsey. Trouble is my gym is in the spare bedroom so space is limited, if i stumble sideways i hit the fecking wall.


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

fleg said:


> to be honest im quite confident in my form. i watch hundreds upon hundreds of videoe... jolting backs, wobbly knees, sh1t rom... etc...
> 
> RR - Yes I would say similarly to leg press the narrower the stance the more focus on the quads, the wider the more you engage hams and glutes. Additionally the deeper the squat (past parallel) the more you engage the glutes..


Ye that's what i thought. Not going past parallel now thought my arse is big enough.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

thought you said you sat back with your form fleg??..

soz mate i just dont think knees should go past toes..

ahem i also think youre not building up much as much tension as you could cos errm well it looks to me like your bouncing and dropping,(albeit a slowish one)

i`m guessing your leaning over at the top of the ROM to keep tension somewhere?

i`d really like to see a hard workset mate..

even if you did the squat in the same way i reckon if you went slower you`d build up more tension in your legs..

do you not think long term your stressing your knees dude?

soz to sound so negative just from the way you write i thought our vids would be mirror images..

dont hit me at summerslam dude


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Could well be just because it was a warm up as opposed to a working set.

However, I've got a feeling you & Cal will have different opinions on this one as you're not looking to achieve the same movement and neither seems totally sold on the others idea...


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yeah felt guilty being so critiCAL last nite so nice one fleg..

thing is knee coming over the toes aside, cos theres obviously 2 trains of thought on this, the stuff about tension should be helpful..

reps were really nice and smooth and i think thats helping side step some potential problems..

i watched galtonator at 5"6, 12 stoneish do 3 reps at 180kg, he came down so motherfcuking slowly it made me think..

if you had a car engine on either side of the bar you`d be moving so tentatively its untru cos one false move, and any bad momentum would pull you forward and you`d lose the bar..

knees forward or not, remember the unlubed analogy dudes.. tentative and with total control..

this vid shows hip drive which i never used to use..

[video=youtube;kawBY5p29fQ]






i thnk this dudes too quick lol and stuffs his hip at the top, i`ll criticise anyone lol, but they look rushed to me.. and unstable..

[video=youtube;-OoVQPmfZ4o]






i presume in time anyone who lifts without control will have knee or back problems in the end..

10 years of using your back/knees as a bumper to get the weights up using momentum will find everyone out in the end..

last set the dude sorts it..

[video=youtube;yha2XAc2qu8]






i actually think most people do knees over ( as i suspect this may be the norm ) and simply dont have the flexibilty to sit back and keep theyre knees behind theyre toes..

ponder this tho i get massive back pain doing knees over and NONE at all relatively speaking by sitting back..

my back problems arent the norm, but i am for many of your young studs..

THE FUTURE..

squats style aside, heres a challenge, do a work set (anyone) and try and take the 2ish seconds i take to do the negative try and slow speed down to nothing at the turn around..

you`ll eliminate alot of the negative impact on your body..


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

a basic premise is of course, that the negative aspect of a movement is when you damage the muscle fibres, so by controlling the negative as much as possible and thereby possibly increasing TUT,

youre gonna hypothetiCALly grow more muscle, which is after all why ATG is also mentioned for maximum growth.

combine the 2 factors with good flexibilty and you might get away with it..

its all about working the muscle not just humping weight..


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ermm was it?

i kinda got lost when RON turned up, soz andy my head starts fogging up after a point and me biology "o level" leaves me to it lol

fleg i always appreciate constructive criticism and i do want it back mate..  (the rest of you be careful!!! ***)

80% extension every time for me now on sldl.. 

*** thats a jke btw


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I've been studying your video for days cal lol. Think my mrs thinks I'm a mincer watching a man squat numerous times over and over and over again.

I'm going to lower my working weight and give it a go cal style. If I can get some one to video it then I'll stick it up on here. For critique.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Same here jordan!! How much weight you thinking of going to?


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Well my squats are currently 115 roughly I may go down to 100


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ive come to realise what i do is a powerlifting squat..

ive heard debates over going parallel causing more knee stress than ATG and presumably its cos i never thought anyone would squat with theyre knees over they toes..

i hope i`m doing a very strict version of a rippetoe/powerlifting squat.

by keeping my knee more vertical i`m not stressing it so much.. imo..

many many bodybuilders who`ve trained for years dont squat anymore, i suspect this knee thing is why..

i cant emphasis enough how fragile my back is except when its in a strong position, which for me is this style squat..

i cant even beleive i`m arguing any benefits of squats or that i`m even doing them after the last year i had..

i think there are certain rules about squat form that most can agree on and one of them is control..

gtg Big T is here..

work...


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

So what's the difference between a powerlifting squat and a squat most body builders do?


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Can I say Cal that you said my squat form was [email protected] and it's something I shall be working on but I have a longer torso and shorter legs, could this affect my form to a point?


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

yannyboy said:


> Can I say Cal that you said my squat form was [email protected] and it's something I shall be working on but I have a longer torso and shorter legs, could this affect my form to a point?


I'm the same


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

i like the leverage bar as it helps control form from the point of view of sitting back and relaxing i dont think my knees go over, dont get me wrong you can fall backwards but because the bar is held on a spindle i am not having to balance and this i see as a downside, but as a plus because the bar does not move it helps keep my back striaght also again downside is im sure im not utilising little muscle groups for balance good and bad i suppose, but for me if its keeping my form in check and not stressing my knees this can only be a good thing but gotta have a go freestyle soon it really gonna bug me

im gonna put up another vid for wide grip pull ups next


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

jordan0689 said:


> So what's the difference between a powerlifting squat and a squat most body builders do?


J, google the diff between low bar and high bar squats - what Cal does it low bar.

I was doing 130+, took it right down and still got it wrong. It's an art dude I tell you!!

Would be very interested to hear from the likes of Neil, AChapp, Lewis & Stu on this as it'd be good to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i think if you can increase flexibilty your torso legnth will be less of an issue..

to all, take 2 seconds to do your negative, that`ll fix most of it..


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

i agree with you on that i will count 2-3 or maybe four i will slow right down on the negative, it just seems a lot slower when your actually doing it then watching what you have just done is quite remarkable really the mind plays some funny tricks


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Why do you want to do high over low Fleg, better quad targeting?


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## steve1 (Jan 31, 2012)

I was advised recently to only do sissy squats as normal squats thicken up your mid section, which we usually are trying to keep slim. What are peoples thoughts on this please?

I have 3 damaged vertebrae (L1 L2 L3) and I find sissy squats put more strain on them so will have to change back anyway.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

You'd be surprised I think Fleg, even though my form was obviously off my back never felt better...not a twinge.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

thing is dudes whats more important?

maximum growth while your body holds out or safe life long squatting?

fleg i can go ATG using this style i just dont matey..


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Filming form tonight! Want to crack form early as I can.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

get your legs apart guys and think of uncle cal 

try sommat more akin to a sumo squat fleg i think you`ll prefer the crossover..


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Ok so taped two sets tonight the warm up on 40kg and working set 60kg I know not quite the numbers you guys are smashing in but I'll try and post vids now.

What I was aiming for is as follows, imagining I was sitting back onto a toilet, aiming for parallel and trying to thrust hips back and reduce knee moving forward. This clearly hasn't happened to desired amount however I do think it's reduced:

Warm up:






Full set:






That took longer to upload than the squats so I hope worked!!


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Looks very rushed... (sorry not to write more, rushing!!!)


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

I thought that uploading, maybe was camera shy... But watching back look very quick!

Cheers dorsey, feel free to pull them apart when more time!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

phil theyre not bad at all matey..

moving in the right places.. knees bit wobbly and moving forward, keep chest higher and tighter and you`ll be repping like me..


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Was asked to spread my legs for uncle cal.... No wonder knees trembling


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Think I'll stick to that weight and work on slowing the decline down, more controlled and hopefully stop knee tremble too!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yes of course slower is good and building tension but lil steps dudes, i was bringing phil on slowly.. :wink:

when a rep is done with strict control like uncle cal, with no bounce just as smoooth a turn around as poss.. go nuts with the ATG lol

nah you cool fleg no dig intended or ever given.. (i`m mr.80% extension now  )

however ive noticed even healthy backs stretch like fcuk from the L5 vertebrae downwards,(from 1" approaching parallel) so if you have a stiff back even slightly its getting stretched.. :wink:

my thinking has always been that its worth sacrificing an inch of ROM and adding 20kg to compensate, usually a shortened ROM and increased weight is deemed a boasting point..

all depends on your thinking, my deads are limited by ROM and i can hold without assistance 255kg from a below the knee lift at under 12 stone straight bar 221?

now i am boasting in a way cos i`m dead chuffed i can hold that much, but if i hadnt approached the situation as i have i`d probably still be holding my own looking at protein adverts in flex..

heres one for ya..

only person ive come across to promote putting a block under your heels to squat with is poliquin..

no one does that cos it increases the sheering force on your knee..

knee over toe does same thing...

i do think a form of sumoesque squat might be the answer when you try squatting again and trying to get knees inline..

one clients form has barstardized into as we speak and its serving him well..


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

A lot to take in, will re read in the morning


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Can I just say before I comment that I always read the posts on this thread and consider squats an essential part of not just legs but overall body development

Why is a particular style of squatting being preached when we are all built differently and have different bio mechanics. Surely keeping your back straight and going low enough should be more important than feet placement or line of knees

Also how many pros actual squat with a free barbell, not many because of injury risks associated

I'll carry on reading the thread as I've always done but just find it hard to work out where it's ultimately going


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Yup ^^^ ive actually, i think, not said you must do em my way 

i do tho, think knees over toes is a cop out for *many who cant squat any other way due to poor co ordination and or flexibility..*

i also think its how the majority squat..

choosing to do this high bar thing (i`d never heard of before) is something else..

yanny most pros appear to use awful form, maybe 10 years of abuse of form catches up with them all in the end..

hence the x mans longevity..


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

how bout that for a nice safe squat..

[video=youtube;apwoNA1Viho]






ive never met anyone so ingenious..

(and i train one or maybe 2 geneii as clients, one is a dr. who went to cambridge on a scholarship and the other is a dr. who fcuks with nanobots every day..)

he made a weight tree for me out of a goal post, last week made me a universal joint which bolts to my cage, you stick a BB in the end and can have endless fun (vid coming)

top man


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Done squats again last night and for the 3rd week in a row of going heavy (for me) I've had long bruises across my shoulders only a couple mm wide but going right across where the bar sits.

Anyone else get this or am I holding it in completely the wrong place?


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

I never squat heavy enough to get bruises!


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

BJ1938 said:


> Done squats again last night and for the 3rd week in a row of going heavy (for me) I've had long bruises across my shoulders only a couple mm wide but going right across where the bar sits.
> 
> Anyone else get this or am I holding it in completely the wrong place?


It shouldn't be on your shoulders dude, should be resting lower down on your traps.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Just checked in the toilets at work, it's even further forward than I thought. But if the bar was there it would have gona through my neck... Must be how I pick it up.

Think I need to lower the bar at the start and really get under it with my back more...


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Yeah defo, you should almost have to push the bar up off the rack, not reach up on your toes to get it or anything.

Not that i'm a squat expert or anything quite clearly!!!


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Are you leaning forward alot, maybe the bar is moving whilst your squatting!


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## mark_star1466868017 (Jul 14, 2011)

def holding it too high mate. keep lower down on traps squeeze shoulder blades together


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Didnt think I was, forgot to get a video last night, will get a vid done on sunday morning when Im at the gym next...


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

How much weight to you max out on and how many reps?


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

90kg is about my max for 10


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

BJ1938 said:


> 90kg is about my max for 10


10 reps is good, I wouldn't go lower for lower body, I don't believe 3-4 super heavy reps build big legs, keep it higher!


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

anybody remember this bit of kit for squatting...lol


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Where can I buy that???


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

they used to sell it in the iron man mag years ago, dont know if they still do.


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

What's so wrong with this guys form, it seems to go against what alot of people on here are saying

[video=youtube;EySRFBVTFv0]


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

BJ1938 said:


> Where can I buy that???


Look at John woods strongman stuff he sells all types of gadgets you get great emails from him aswell

http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yanny, irrespective of hi bar low, knees shouldnt come past your toes.

nobody squats with blocks under theyre heels cos it stresses the knee.

same premise mate..

bj thats practiCALly sitting on your neck bones mate.

JC great pic mate i have a hip belt which creates a similar situation..

peary rader is the king of abbreviated training and famously couldn't gain on more than squats dips and a back exercise.(cant member which one)

he might not look much there but he was a string of p1ss to start with..


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Bump!!! Miss this thread!


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Saw this in the gym this morning... The lad was doing 3 reps per set, chucking plates on and doing 1/4 reps (look where the cross bars are)... Am I missing something here??


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

I think he needs a chat with cal!


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Lmao that's brilliant.

I love seeing things like this in the gym. Some people really are clueless.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Usually at mine there is a pt or training partner with them and still no mention of it during or after set. I can understand if you're mid rep hard to see of you not doing what you think you are (video of form proved that to me) but you'd expect your training partner or pt in area to say, try it like this....


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

That's class look at his legs oops

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yannyboy said:


> What's so wrong with this guys form, it seems to go against what alot of people on here are saying
> 
> [video=youtube;EySRFBVTFv0]


look at the movement provided by the running trainer soles..

they also throw the weight onto the toes.


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Vibram five fingers anyone?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

I must admit i now do squats in bare feet, this transfers a lot of the effort into the heals.

Thanks Cal.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Loz said:


> Vibram five fingers anyone?


only those of us with a sense of style will benefit from them bud...


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