# Hypertrophy Reps



## interlekt (Jan 1, 2015)

Hi

I am currently seeking some advice on hypertrophy currently I keep my rep ranges between 8-12 with 2 min rest between sets. However I have been advised by someone that I need to change my thinking and do things differently for example he suggested doing 45 seconds - 1 min rest but rather than just doing a set number of reps doing as many reps as possible until failure.

What would your advice be?


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Scientific evidence has shown no hypertrophy benefit between 45 second - 2 min rest periods.

Think about it this way, if you rest longer and can therefore perform at a higher capacity on your next working set, pushing further, what would provide the better hypertrophy? Less rest with less resulting output or more rest with higher performance.

You should however train in varying rep ranges to explore the development of fast and slow twitch muscle fibres but progression is the key in both weights, reps, etc based on the same intensity being used.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

DC1 said:


> Scientific evidence has shown no hypertrophy benefit between 45 second - 2 min rest periods.
> 
> Think about it this way, if you rest longer and can therefore perform at a higher capacity on your next working set, pushing further, what would provide the better hypertrophy? Less rest with less resulting output or more rest with higher performance.
> 
> You should however train in varying rep ranges to explore the development of fast and slow twitch muscle fibres but progression is the key in both weights, reps, etc based on the same intensity being used.


 Mostly true, but the style of training is also a huge determining factor. Generally, high volume routines work on the basis of short rests, for example I've done several stints of German Volume Training and Vince Gironda 6x6, the former generally focuses on 90-120 second rests and the former is based around 30 seconds rest or less! Had great results with both. On the other hand, with your run-of-the-mill 3-4 set 8 rep workout or similar, 2-3 minutes is indeed shown by studies to be optimal for hypertrophy. OP has given us very little detail as to what the other guy said, but it sounds like he's attempting to suggest that this one training style is suggesting is superior which is total BS in itself.

If you're inexperienced OP, my advice to you is to stick to a reputable program for beginner-intermediates. Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine is always one I recommend.


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## interlekt (Jan 1, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Mostly true, but the style of training is also a huge determining factor. Generally, high volume routines work on the basis of short rests, for example I've done several stints of German Volume Training and Vince Gironda 6x6, the former generally focuses on 90-120 second rests and the former is based around 30 seconds rest or less! Had great results with both. On the other hand, with your run-of-the-mill 3-4 set 8 rep workout or similar, 2-3 minutes is indeed shown by studies to be optimal for hypertrophy. OP has given us very little detail as to what the other guy said, but it sounds like he's attempting to suggest that this one training style is suggesting is superior which is total BS in itself.
> 
> If you're inexperienced OP, my advice to you is to stick to a reputable program for beginner-intermediates. Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine is always one I recommend.


 Thanks.

I have had a look at the Lyle McDonald's Routine you have mentioned but its very very simple. Can you recommend any other alternatives?

I prefer training muscle groups per day if I'm honest with you


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

interlekt said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I have had a look at the Lyle McDonald's Routine you have mentioned but its very very simple. Can you recommend any other alternatives?
> 
> I prefer training muscle groups per day if I'm honest with you


 Simple is good , absolutely no need to complicate bodybuilding. Pretty much built my physique on these kinds of splits and if you're a beginner-intermediate then I'd definitely recommend this type of split as opposed to training a muscle once a week and especially if you're natural, since protein synthesis is only elevated for a few days after training a muscle so it makes more sense to train the muscle twice a week (protein synthesis is always elevated on steroids so once a week works much better, split workouts were actually invented by/for AAS users!).

Otherwise, impossible to suggest a routine without knowing your experience level. Generally though, for a 3 day split I think a PPL is best, or for a 4 day then give back and legs their own day. For each muscle group, start heavy with a basic compound and include rests of 2+ minutes, then go for mid-range compounds or isolation exercises for higher reps and shorter rests.


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## interlekt (Jan 1, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Simple is good , absolutely no need to complicate bodybuilding. Pretty much built my physique on these kinds of splits and if you're a beginner-intermediate then I'd definitely recommend this type of split as opposed to training a muscle once a week and especially if you're natural, since protein synthesis is only elevated for a few days after training a muscle so it makes more sense to train the muscle twice a week (protein synthesis is always elevated on steroids so once a week works much better, split workouts were actually invented by/for AAS users!).
> 
> Otherwise, impossible to suggest a routine without knowing your experience level. Generally though, for a 3 day split I think a PPL is best, or for a 4 day then give back and legs their own day. For each muscle group, start heavy with a basic compound and include rests of 2+ minutes, then go for mid-range compounds or isolation exercises for higher reps and shorter rests.


 My would say that my experience is intermediate.

My general program contains muscle day splits as mentioned with compound movements followed by isolation, res are 8-12 with 2 min rest.

I have done some research on PPL would you recommend any particular ones? Or any alternatives?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

I think, however you train, you should bench twice a week, squat twice a week and deadlift once a week. I make sure, whatever routine I pursue, I base the core of it around that.

I think an upper/lower split is pretty optimum for 4 days a week.


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## interlekt (Jan 1, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Simple is good , absolutely no need to complicate bodybuilding. Pretty much built my physique on these kinds of splits and if you're a beginner-intermediate then I'd definitely recommend this type of split as opposed to training a muscle once a week and especially if you're natural, since protein synthesis is only elevated for a few days after training a muscle so it makes more sense to train the muscle twice a week (protein synthesis is always elevated on steroids so once a week works much better, split workouts were actually invented by/for AAS users!).
> 
> Otherwise, impossible to suggest a routine without knowing your experience level. Generally though, for a 3 day split I think a PPL is best, or for a 4 day then give back and legs their own day. For each muscle group, start heavy with a basic compound and include rests of 2+ minutes, then go for mid-range compounds or isolation exercises for higher reps and shorter rests.


 Also I dont get how I am over complicating things here is an example of my shoulder workout.

Seated Shoulder Press 4x10

Military Press 3x10

Lateral Raise 3 x12

Reverse Flies 3x12


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

interlekt said:


> Also I dont get how I am over complicating things here is an example of my shoulder workout.
> 
> Seated Shoulder Press 4x10
> 
> ...


 I'd mix up your rep ranges more, personally. Each rep range has its advantages, makes sense to take all of those advantages. Start heavy and get lighter through the workout. So an example chest workout would be:

Dumbbell bench press or Incline bench - 4x6, 3 mins rests

Regular or incline Hammer Strength chest press - 3x8, 2 mins rests

Dumbbell flyes - 3x10, 90 secs rests

Cable crossover - 1x12-15, 2 dropsets


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Simple is good , absolutely no need to complicate bodybuilding. Pretty much built my physique on these kinds of splits and if you're a beginner-intermediate then I'd definitely recommend this type of split as opposed to training a muscle once a week and especially if you're natural, since protein synthesis is only elevated for a few days after training a muscle so it makes more sense to train the muscle twice a week (protein synthesis is always elevated on steroids so once a week works much better, split workouts were actually invented by/for AAS users!).
> 
> Otherwise, impossible to suggest a routine without knowing your experience level. Generally though, for a 3 day split I think a PPL is best, or for a 4 day then give back and legs their own day.* For each muscle group, start heavy with a basic compound and include rests of 2+ minutes, then go for mid-range compounds or isolation exercises for higher reps and shorter rests.*


 This. You won't go wrong with the statement highlighted in bold.


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## sherry pro (Mar 21, 2017)

your rep range should be around 8-10 reps. advisable rest is 2-3 mins,as you will be adding more weight in each set. You require power to complete the reps.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

sherry pro said:


> your rep range should be around 8-10 reps.


 Rep ranges from 5 reps all the way up to 20 reps or even higher are optimal for hypertrophy (even lower reps under some circumstances, especially when combined with high volume and short rests). They all stimulate it via different pathways. Absolutely no sense in limiting yourself to such a narrow rep range - each has its advantages and you may find that different areas of your body respond better to higher reps than lower reps and vice versa, and it makes sense to take out the guess-work and mix up your rep ranges. Either start with heavy compounds and work your way up to high rep isolations if you're on a bro-split, or if you're on an upper/lower or full body routine then have heavy days and light days.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Rep ranges from 5 reps all the way up to 20 reps or even higher are optimal for hypertrophy (even lower reps under some circumstances, especially when combined with high volume and short rests). They all stimulate it via different pathways. Absolutely no sense in limiting yourself to such a narrow rep range - each has its advantages and* you may find that different areas of your body respond better to higher reps than lower reps and vice versa*, and it makes sense to take out the guess-work and mix up your rep ranges. Either start with heavy compounds and work your way up to high rep isolations if you're on a bro-split, or if you're on an upper/lower or full body routine then have heavy days and light days.


 indeed, I found switching from a standard 8 - 10rep range to the high rep , high vol (4 x 20) especially useful for legs. My switching I mean after a few months when your routines become stale. Think is a good one to shake things up temporarily, not as a standard routine. There is more of a cardiovascular demand in which case general fitness starts to place a significant part.

Incidentally I sometimes you are forced down this route as in many gyms, the weight stack on machines such as leg extension, leg curls is pretty modest unfortunately


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

JohhnyC said:


> Think is a good one to shake things up temporarily, not as a standard routine. There is more of a cardiovascular demand in which case general fitness starts to place a significant part.


 This is pretty much why I say it should be added into the routine as opposed to being the sole focus. I'm of the opinion that as long as you're getting your heavy compounds in and progressing on those, then whatever sort of rep and set scheme within sensible limits you choose for the rest of your exercises is totally up to you.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> This is pretty much why I say it should be added into the routine as opposed to being the sole focus. I'm of the opinion that as long as you're getting your heavy compounds in and progressing on those, then whatever sort of rep and set scheme within sensible limits you choose for the rest of your exercises is totally up to you.


 Damn right - everyting you have said was spot on there.

In regards to rest time though, I find that if I hit a plateu, sometimes instead of increasing the weight I decrease rest time in between sets to 20secs from around 45-1min until i can do the original amount of sets and reps then when i lengthen rest times again after a couple of weeks i can lift heavier. I believe the intensity is increased when decreasing rest time forcing me to adapt in a different way. IME of course.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> This is pretty much why I say it should be added into the routine as opposed to being the sole focus. I'm of the opinion that as long as you're getting your heavy compounds in and progressing on those, then whatever sort of rep and set scheme within sensible limits you choose for the rest of your exercises is totally up to you.


 Yeah fully agree.

I also think there is a psychological factor to. If you do 3 x 10 say and constantly only manage 10,10,9 and fail on the 9th. You almost expect evertime to fail on 9th rep.

Completely change routine and you have no pre-expectations, so mentally you pushing harder.

Could be totally Sh#te but nevertheless the change in routines helps me physically and mentally.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Damn right - everyting you have said was spot on there.
> 
> In regards to rest time though, I find that if I hit a plateu, sometimes instead of increasing the weight I decrease rest time in between sets to 20secs from around 45-1min until i can do the original amount of sets and reps then when i lengthen rest times again after a couple of weeks i can lift heavier. I believe the intensity is increased when decreasing rest time forcing me to adapt in a different way. IME of course.


 Any type of progressive overload is good for hypertrophy and increasing density (i.e. shorter rest times/same amount of work done in less time) is one of several tried and tested methods of overload :thumbup1: When I'm training on upper lower splits I typically have heavy and light days, and my light days are based around Vince Gironda principles - he believed in decreasing rest periods as a main method of progressive overload. 6x6 is my favourite - pick a weight that you cna do 12 reps to failure, and attempt 6 sets of 6 reps with that weight, with 30 seconds of rest between sets, then one you can perform all 6 reps on all 6 sets then decrease the rest periods by 5 seconds on your next workout, until you can complete all the sets with just 15 second rests. Making that progress would mean that your former 12RM is now probably about your 20RM, which is a big strength increase.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Any type of progressive overload is good for hypertrophy and increasing density (i.e. shorter rest times/same amount of work done in less time) is one of several tried and tested methods of overload :thumbup1: When I'm training on upper lower splits I typically have heavy and light days, and my light days are based around Vince Gironda principles - he believed in decreasing rest periods as a main method of progressive overload. 6x6 is my favourite - pick a weight that you cna do 12 reps to failure, and attempt 6 sets of 6 reps with that weight, with 30 seconds of rest between sets, then one you can perform all 6 reps on all 6 sets then decrease the rest periods by 5 seconds on your next workout, until you can complete all the sets with just 15 second rests. Making that progress would mean that your former 12RM is now probably about your 20RM, which is a big strength increase.


 Oh yeah, I always called them cluster sets and did it 5x5 descending rest times.

Thats how I progressed my DB shoulder press, had a serious problem with upping the weight doing sets of 8-10, think it was mental due to severe drop off in reps e.g. +2kg -6 reps.

So, on the advice of a local powerlifter, I switched to standing OHP cluster sets of 5x5 30 secs rest then 25 then 20 then 15 for 3 months with the same weight.

Picked up where a left off last month and was literally repping 4kg heavier per DB no problems. Its definitely a valid method.


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Brad Schoenfeld recently put out a study showing 3 mins outperformed for rest periods. Other studies show other things reference: recovery period, load, volume, etc.

Bottom line is: mix it up.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Oh yeah, I always called them cluster sets and did it 5x5 descending rest times.
> 
> Thats how I progressed my DB shoulder press, had a serious problem with upping the weight doing sets of 8-10, think it was mental due to severe drop off in reps e.g. +2kg -6 reps.
> 
> ...


 Yep, cluster sets/cluster reps, all this stuff falls under those :thumb I like to use them when I'm cutting as well, keeps the weight pretty light without going high with the reps and I just feel like it burns more calories than a more standard approach.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Yep, cluster sets/cluster reps, all this stuff falls under those :thumb I like to use them when I'm cutting as well, keeps the weight pretty light without going high with the reps and I just feel like it burns more calories than a more standard approach.


 Yeah man, after a full 5x5 set im usually on my knees f**ked. great for cutting/conditioning.

Glad that someone else practices this type of lifting because in my gym people look at me like a madman attacking the weights


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## Fadi (Dec 14, 2010)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Simple is good , absolutely no need to complicate bodybuilding. Pretty much built my physique on these kinds of splits and if you're a beginner-intermediate then I'd definitely recommend this type of split as opposed to training a muscle once a week and especially if you're natural, since protein synthesis is only elevated for a few days after training a muscle so it makes more sense to train the muscle twice a week (protein synthesis is always elevated on steroids so once a week works much better, split workouts were actually invented by/for AAS users!).
> 
> Otherwise, impossible to suggest a routine without knowing your experience level. Generally though, for a 3 day split I think a PPL is best, or for a 4 day then give back and legs their own day. For each muscle group, start heavy with a basic compound and include rests of 2+ minutes, then go for mid-range compounds or isolation exercises for higher reps and shorter rests.


 I'd pay for this kind of advice.

Thank you Sir.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Any type of progressive overload is good for hypertrophy and increasing density (i.e. shorter rest times/same amount of work done in less time) is one of several tried and tested methods of overload :thumbup1: When I'm training on upper lower splits I typically have heavy and light days, and my light days are based around Vince Gironda principles - he believed in decreasing rest periods as a main method of progressive overload. 6x6 is my favourite - pick a weight that you cna do 12 reps to failure, and attempt 6 sets of 6 reps with that weight, with 30 seconds of rest between sets, then one you can perform all 6 reps on all 6 sets then decrease the rest periods by 5 seconds on your next workout, until you can complete all the sets with just 15 second rests. Making that progress would mean that your former 12RM is now probably about your 20RM, which is a big strength increase.


 I have tried this before. Thought definitely some benefit in it, but to be honest i got a bit too sloppy with the rest times especially as they start to decrease.


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