# So....following Ausbuilts Diet Advice....time to recomp



## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Have great respect for members on here, I need to get back on track and i made a post about why I hadnt due to personal reasons and family deaths.

Love reading stuff by Ausbuilt...although some will disagree with certain bits he does back up literally everything he puts and he has no reason to lie to make money etc as he is extremely successful in real life.

Currently im around 100kg...havent trained in 8weeks apart from one LIGHT session last tuesday on back where im still a bit sore today...haha. however ive officially been signed off today by the Doctor so can get back into training!!!!!!! WOOOOP

Im deffo probably around 20% bf...and have lost a good 1.5inches of my arms, more on my legs and some on my chest etc...so with muscle memory im hoping i can get back on track.

My diet has been nothing short of horrendous...havent been over 100g protein TOPS in 6-8weeks....just being honest.

Ill happily get some pictures up this evening.

*Diet Wise *

*
*Will be 400-500g protein, 300g will be from shakes...just fits in with my life and work schedule. Rest will be from chicken, fish and a bit of red meat.

Carbs will be lowish...100g or so...maybe 150g on training days, and fats will be lowish...30-40g from essential fats.

Extra supps will be vitamins, Regucol which is by holland and barratt and has a high amount of good bacteria...plus 5g of alfalfa etc added to 1-2shakes a day.

AAS wise is where im confused..

Ok...so i wont be Dieting as such..but my calories aren't exactly high at all...lowish in fact.

So is it pointless using a high dose as i know Aus advocates a higher dose for best returns so to speak...

Currently just started 400mg Tren e and 400mg test e by Rohm. that's it for now....however im guessing 1-2g of test plus 500mg tren and say 50mg winny a day would give me much better returns?

Would love to hear your thoughts.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

I think the cycle you're doing just now should be sufficient mate I don't think you need to up it.If you stick to the diet and with those dosages I would imagine you will get really good results.Good luck.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Personally i'd run the tren at the higher dosage if you can handle it. so like 1.5g test 1g tren would be good if your wanting to recomp.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

get some pics as I would love to try something like this I know empire boy was on a similar train of though like aus and he had one of the best recomp results I have ever seen on hear.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

someone tell me what a recomp is???


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Kennyken said:


> someone tell me what a recomp is???


Recomposition.

The idea being to drop fat AND simultaneously gain muscle.

Impossible natty pretty much, difficult when on gear but very much possible.

Usually calories are at maintenance or a tiny bit aboves, 99 times out of a 100 tren will be involved.


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Kennyken said:


> someone tell me what a recomp is???


Reducing fat and building muscle at the same time!


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

RowRow said:


> Recomposition.
> 
> The idea being to drop fat AND simultaneously gain muscle.
> 
> ...


very good clear answer mate...reps


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

I think the source of cals are more important then any thing due to protein synthesis being through the roof on gear I don't believe the type of AAS makes the difference. dose person to person dependent I think peptides and GH can play a big part. From what I can remember Aus said something regarding Slin to


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

RowRow said:


> Recomposition.
> 
> The idea being to drop fat AND simultaneously gain muscle.
> 
> ...


cals tend to cycle on re-comp, as in fix protein and vary fats and carbs. Tren adds nothing special to the process. High androgens generally work well, so high dose test is still best, as is about 200mg/day winny, 150-200mcg t3 (2days on/2days off, or 100mcg if ED), 200mcg T4 on t3 days. GH at 2iu every 4 hours if you can manage it.. "slin post workout.



reza85 said:


> I think the source of cals are more important then any thing due to protein synthesis being through the roof on gear I don't believe the type of AAS makes the difference. dose person to person dependent I think peptides and GH can play a big part. From what I can remember Aus said something regarding Slin to


'slin post workout if on a regular diet

on a keto diet, 'slin (carbless novorpapid, 3iu every 4 hours) to get into keto in 12 hours after carb up day.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Aus what typ of daily cal intake would you recommend ? say 100kg at 20% body fat like OP ?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for chiming in guys!...and aus!

Aus...the reason im using Tren is i have the rohm ttm blend..so im using mast too..

What dose would you recommend atm.....and would you add in the winny? Ill add in 100mcg t3 at 2days on/2off like you say too.


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## shaunmac (Aug 13, 2010)

Looking really good in your avatar, shame about the current higher bodyfat but well done for kicking yourself up the ar*e and getting yourself back on track!


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> Thanks for chiming in guys!...and aus!
> 
> Aus...the reason im using Tren is i have the rohm ttm blend..so im using mast too..
> 
> What dose would you recommend atm.....and would you add in the winny? Ill add in 100mcg t3 at 2days on/2off like you say too.


hi mate you jabbed any of the ttm yet? how's pip getting some pip with mine


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

hi mate...forgot to pm you back.

Yeah i do get pip from it mate tbh! Not awful...but certainly not pip free.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

reza85 said:


> Aus what typ of daily cal intake would you recommend ? say 100kg at 20% body fat like OP ?


you have to figure out your own cals. I cant tell you that.

use a site like www.fitday.com to help workout your cals and track progress.

However, i've tried loads of diets (i was a bit famous for keto+'slin etc), and found that a fairly simple approach that works incredibly well (and not my idea, its from BigA of professionalmuscle.com) is:

1. fix protein at 500g/day (doesnt matter if 300g from powder)

2. vary carbs and fats depending on whether you're bulking or dieting.

Sooo, what i do these days, is bulk for 4 weeks (by the way "bulking" for me means 200g/day carbs and 60g EFAs with the 500g protein) and then diet for 4 weeks (keep the 500g pro, and reduce fats (EFAs) to 10-20g and carbs to 50g/day).

My cycle is a base of injectables, and I add pills for the 4 week bulk, and no pills on the cut.

for more on the actual cycle see my answer to BONE below. The threory is its the constant cycling of diet/bulk that keeps you progressing.



J.Smith said:


> Thanks for chiming in guys!...and aus!
> 
> Aus...the reason im using Tren is i have the rohm ttm blend..so im using mast too..
> 
> What dose would you recommend atm.....and would you add in the winny? Ill add in 100mcg t3 at 2days on/2off like you say too.


ok from an economics perspective, run what you've got. I"m practical that way, and at the end of the day tren is not magic, but it works for cutting as its got very little water retention (but for bulking i def prefer deca).

Winny is great for strenght, which is why i add it when bulking, for heavier lifts... but it makes no diff to your dieting, and even more importantly, your money is better spend on oils. Why? well say winny or anavar- you take 100mg/day. Well if you take it at 8am, then by 4pm you have 50mg active, then by 12am, you have 25mg active, by 8 am 12.5mg active...

If you split it, then you have a little higher level throught the later part of the day, but you never hit the 100mg peak for 8 hours...

Now, if you took 100mg of test prop.. you have 100mg avail for 3days.. then 50mg for the next 3 days.... 24 hours/day...

So oils give you a higher level of serum AAS for the WHOLE day.... so you grow more, especially at night, when the orals would be the weakest... (of course you can take the approach of taking 100mg var or winny in the morning, then at 4pm take another 50mg, then at at 12pm another 50mg.. and you will go close to the oil, but then to keep 100mg serum levle, you really need to take around 200mg through the day.. of course 200mg of test prop.. would be cheaper etc)



BONE said:


> Aus would dnp have its place in a recomp? Is the 200mg winny oral or injectable? Wpuld you say 2g test is better to run than 1.5g test with 600mg tren e? I assume long esters would be best and run this cycle for a goood few weeks! Interested in what carbs prot fats ratio and total calories consumed for a guy the op's size and the amount of cardio done


yes, mate absolutely, DNP is a fantastic addition- when running with 'slin, to keep gains lean. Easily the best approach.

200mg injectable winny is more bioavailable, but, i would take the oral, as the oral and injectable are the same (no ester) so you dont get constant blood levels with the shot, so may as well take the oral (i do).

You next question is very on point- i was running 2g test, 1g Eq and 600mg of tren for 8-9 months (total of 3.6g) I now run 3.2g of test and 400mg of masteron, and I have to say my results jumped noticeably in the past 2 months- everyone at the gym commented...

at the end of the day, yep, test is best, and the higher the dose the better the result. Its far better than tren. However, I do run 2.5mg of letro a day, and i have normal range oestrogen levels....


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> Now, if you took 100mg of test prop.. you have 100mg avail for 3days.. then 50mg for the next 3 days.... 24 hours/day...
> 
> .


thats a little misleading mate.

If you jab in 100mg of test prop, you have 100mg of total test available which will be released over a few days divded up...ie you wont have a 100 grams active for 24 hours......it will hit your system and reach a peak serum level of a few hundred mcg after around 8 hours then taper off over a couple of days requiring top up jab (ideally) next day......it gets spun off the esther as it releases and metabolises.

You intimate a 100mg is in your stream ready to go for a few days.

I see what you are saying its a smoother peak spike and taper than all the orals but if we thought soley in those terms we'd all jab test hex or something for serum level stability........all the meds have their place when we understand how they get utilized.


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## James s (Sep 18, 2010)

Where do you purchase your alfalfa ?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> you have to figure out your own cals. I cant tell you that.
> 
> use a site like www.fitday.com to help workout your cals and track progress.
> 
> ...


Ok mate..so keep the dose around 400mg test + tren what im running now...its pointless me doing like 1-2g of test at this point?


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## durhamlad (Apr 6, 2011)

James s said:


> Where do you purchase your alfalfa ?


No sourcing!  lol

edit:sorry couldn't resist!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BONE said:


> Very interesting aus, so basically u have been on 8-9 monhs not comming off with the apporach of 4 week blast 4 week cruise then repeat ect jus varying your diet? How often to ou have bloods done and will you come off soon and run a pct or what's your plan?


actually mate, just hit a year.. will prob go through to the end of next year, and then the girl may want to start a family.

I know have bloods done every 3months. Nothing bad, some raised ALT.. but then that was on 300mg/day oxys last time. I've since changed to 200mg/day winny, and next time it will be oxys at 300mg and winny at 200mg together...

I will run a variation of the power PCT when I come off, for about 6-8 weeks, with blood tests every 2 weeks to vary dosage of HCG, clomid and arimidex

on cycle, I use clomid EOD at 50mg and still have some nuts..


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## Machette (Oct 29, 2011)

Ausbuilt bro! You are all machine!!!


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## doggy (Mar 26, 2011)

i am a mechanic. HOLD FIRE.

It might not be a head gasket/cracked or warped head. It needs to be diagnosed properly.

Is the cooling system pressurising? If you take the radiator cap of to release the pressure (IT MIGHT BE VERY HOT WATER) put the cap back on and hold the revs about 3000rpm for a minute. Do the big rubber cooling system hoses go hard as if they are pressurised? If so the gasket might be away.

Or you could try a sniffer. The solution turns from blue to green/yellow if combustion gases are present in the cooling system.

Some engines can mix oil and water because a simple O ring is away. ive seen engines changed because of it. no joke.


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

have been thinking of doing a cycle of 50 o-rings/day for 7 weeks so thanks for the post mate nice one


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> actually mate, just hit a year.. will prob go through to the end of next year, and then the girl may want to start a family.
> 
> I know have bloods done every 3months. Nothing bad, some raised ALT.. but then that was on 300mg/day oxys last time. I've since changed to 200mg/day winny, and next time it will be oxys at 300mg and winny at 200mg together...
> 
> ...


Any strength changes with dropping the tren for extra test and mast?

Do you think there is much difference in eq to mast?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

s&ccoach said:


> Any strength changes with dropping the tren for extra test and mast?
> 
> Do you think there is much difference in eq to mast?


no diff between eq and mast strength wise- best results so far? straight test, VERY noticeably!!! HUGE FAN!!


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> you have to figure out your own cals. I cant tell you that.
> 
> use a site like www.fitday.com to help workout your cals and track progress.
> 
> ...


Aus, genuine question but on these super high doses of protein, have you had your urea and gfr checked? I know there is limited evidence on the subject on high protein and normal kidneys but since you've been doing this fire awhile I am curious . Thanks for the info as always


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## Big_Idiot (Feb 14, 2012)

Wow mate, 300g protein from shakes!

How many typical 25-30g scoops is that a day? lol


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I've been following the Aus 6 week bulk alternating with a 4 week cut for nearly four months now and it's working well for me. I like to think of it as Aus Lite as I only do 2 grams of aas, use more carbs on my cuts and have 3x75g of protein shakes a day


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Big_Idiot said:


> Wow mate, 300g protein from shakes!
> 
> How many typical 25-30g scoops is that a day? lol


10 if he has 30g shakes..............


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## Big_Idiot (Feb 14, 2012)

GolfDelta said:


> 10 if he has 30g shakes..............


Only if the 30g shakes contain 30g of protein


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

What powder has the maximum amount of protein for your money? Is there a chart or anything anywhere?


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## Big_Idiot (Feb 14, 2012)

Ben_Dover said:


> What powder has the maximum amount of protein for your money? Is there a chart or anything anywhere?


Bend over and i might tell you.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Ben_Dover said:


> What powder has the maximum amount of protein for your money? Is there a chart or anything anywhere?


San nutrition 100% Platinum Whey & 100% Whey gold standard are the best ones for your money IMO.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Ben_Dover said:


> What powder has the maximum amount of protein for your money? Is there a chart or anything anywhere?


Think Ausbuilt uses Dymatize due to the low carbs,I may be wrong though.



Big_Idiot said:


> Only if the 30g shakes contain 30g of protein


Very true!And the recent tests kicking about on here would suggest we get nowhere near the % on the label!


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

200mg/winny a day. There I was thinking I was on the edge doing 100mg/day awhile ago!!

What long ester would be similar to winny as winny gives a nice hard look on the muscle. Cant imagine what 200mg/day would do.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

GolfDelta said:


> Think Ausbuilt uses Dymatize due to the low carbs,I may be wrong though.
> 
> yep dymatize ISO 100... but QNT ISOPURE or METAPURE work well too, just that dymatize is the best tasting of the zero carb ones.
> 
> ...





TaintedSoul said:


> 200mg/winny a day. There I was thinking I was on the edge doing 100mg/day awhile ago!!
> 
> What long ester would be similar to winny as winny gives a nice hard look on the muscle. Cant imagine what 200mg/day would do.


to be fair, from my research, nothing stopping you using winny at the same dose as oxys- both c-17, and pretty similar (same is true of var).

no other compound gives the hard look winny does, except perhaps halotestin, but even better together..

so far, i've ditched everything except test for my base, when i went from 2g test and 1.6g of eq/tren to 3.6g test, my squats jumped 10kg in 1st month, and in 3months i put on 2kg.. with no other change.. orals- now mix of winny and either dbol (when carbing up) or oxys (when dieting for extra vascularity).


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

So Aus...

Is winny and joint problems over rated?

I was going to use the ROHM TTM and add in 100mg winny + 100mg oxys ed when im recomping.


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## Sharp161 (Jan 31, 2010)

I like the idea of short 4 week bulk and cuts do u manage to stay lean all year round doing this? Also 200g carbs seems so low? Once the 4 weeks is up do you drop to 50g carbs straight away or decrees gradually?

I'm 7 weeks into following bigAs contest prep diet love that guys articles I'm pretty close to 400g prot a day and iv been dropping a carb meal every 2 week's and replacing it with more peotien. Dropped 20lb already and strength is near the same.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> So Aus...
> 
> Is winny and joint problems over rated?
> 
> I was going to use the ROHM TTM and add in 100mg winny + 100mg oxys ed when im recomping.


absolutely. The issue of "joint problems" arose from the track and field athletes. They lived on winny as they needed explosive speed (strenght in a short time) and winny made you very strong, with little weight gain (power to weight ratio is important in athletics). However speed training is heavily dependent on plyometrics such as depth jumps and jump squats etc.

2 things happened:

1. muscle strength increased far faster than tendon strength, so achillies (training for blasting out of the blocks) and patellar tendons (plymotrics issues) snapped...

2. the high intensity of the plyometrics, plus constand track work caused knee, ankle and hip pain...

Consequently the track and fields athletes complained about joint and tendon issues related to winny (as the winny allowed them to train harder and stronger).

The track and field clubs with the best teams where in california, and had an overlap with bodybuilding gyms (especially at university campuses), hence BBs started attributing any knee problem or elbow problems from incorrect squat or bench technique to winny...

However, when it comes to joints- they can't "dry out" on winny, as winny does NOT affect the synovial fluid in a joint:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synovial_fluid

if you see what makes up synovial fluid, you can see that its based on collagen and proteinases, which ANY AAS would help, not hinder... By the same token, deca does not "increase joint lubrication" any more than any other steroid can, for the same reason, winny can't make it worse...

I like winny+oxys or winny+dbol a lot... works well in combo with either.



Sharp161 said:


> I like the idea of short 4 week bulk and cuts do u manage to stay lean all year round doing this? Also 200g carbs seems so low? Once the 4 weeks is up do you drop to 50g carbs straight away or decrees gradually?
> 
> I'm 7 weeks into following bigAs contest prep diet love that guys articles I'm pretty close to 400g prot a day and iv been dropping a carb meal every 2 week's and replacing it with more peotien. Dropped 20lb already and strength is near the same.


I first used BigAs comp prep to drop from 23.8% to 9% in about 6months... took me a little longer.. but i got there.

These days I just use the last 2 weeks of that diet as my "4 week cut" so yes, straight to 50g/day carbs.

When bulking, most over eat... thats not the point.... look at it this way- 1kg of muscle is 25% protein and 75% water, so 250g protein.

If you want to put on 1kg of muscle in a week..you need an EXTRA 250g of protein in the WEEK.. or 35.7g/day.... thats not much.. now say you will train a little harder/heavier. Well if you normally burn 400cals in a weights workout (use www.fitday.com to calc), and you workout 20% harder.. you will burn 80 cals more of carbs.. so an extra 20g of carbs on training days; you need some glycogen in the muscle, so lets double the carbs 40g.

There you go, an extra 40g carbs, and 35.7g of protein a day should give 1kg of new muscle.. assuming you take enough AAS and T3 and GH, because on AAS alone you wont put on 1kg/week... if you eat more than that.. you add as much fat as muscle...

so for me 200g/day carbs... is ample when bulking....

as for staying lean... am vasucular ALL the time, ALWAYS have abs.. so yes.. and managed to go from 96kg at 8% to 102kg and 8% in the past 6months.. its slow progress.. but its quality gains..


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Great reply Aus!

If i upped my test from 400 to say 1g would i notice a worthwhile difference in your opinion?

Like wise if i dropped the tren too like you have and just ran say 1.5g test would that work too?

You mention GH above...i thought you didnt approve of using it really..or is that for someone like me whose 22?


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

**** thats a lot of protein


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## Sharp161 (Jan 31, 2010)

Thanks for the reply aus some great info defiantly going to try running my diet like this.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> Great reply Aus!
> 
> If i upped my test from 400 to say 1g would i notice a worthwhile difference in your opinion?
> 
> ...


no magic mate, the effects of test (and all anabolics) are dose dependent- this is not even in contention:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long

ie., more is better....

as for GH at 22 you've got enough... at 30 you need more..


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

I know what you're saying but what I mean is if the diet etc and everything else was 100% consistent such as training sleep etc.

One was say 400mg test + 400mg tren...the other was 2g test....how would the results differ? Thats what i need to understand.

Would this change if the calories were below maintenance, maintenance or above.


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Aus...there should be a thread titled "Ask Ausbuilt a question"...if it stayed on topic the knowledge in their would be absolutely priceless! Although I dont think you would have time as the amount of questions you already answer ia very high! But it is most appreciated.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> no magic mate, the effects of test (and all anabolics) are dose dependent- this is not even in contention:
> 
> http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long
> 
> ...


Do you believe GH has to be taken ed or eod? I've read people blasting their weekly amount in one go, is this something you have tried?

In response to the winny comment and injuries, I was taking 100mg winny as well as playing semi pro rugby, I ruptured my achillies. I was on tren ace and test prop as well so difficult to say what was responsible, but sprint training and rugby training is completely different to static weightlifting.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> I know what you're saying but what I mean is if the diet etc and everything else was 100% consistent such as training sleep etc.
> 
> One was say 400mg test + 400mg tren...the other was 2g test....how would the results differ? Thats what i need to understand.
> 
> Would this change if the calories were below maintenance, maintenance or above.


i thought i was pretty clear. 2g of test gives better results any way you cut it.

look test mg for mg gives more mass or retains more muscle than anything else. All the other anabolics look to reduce the androgenic impact (increased sides), while still giving anabolic effect.

the way to look at it is... take as much test as you feel ok with (sides wise). If the acne or other sides get to bad, cut the test back say 500mg and add an anabolic.. deca if bulking, tren or eq or primo if dieting etc.

so 800mg of test gives more mass than 400mg test +400mg tren, but 400mg test + 600 or 700mg of tren would prob give more results.. you just need more anabolic to give the same effect as test... but at the end of the day, more dosage is best, and test is still best...

when dieting, higher doses retain more muscle, and often, with enough protein, some can even gain muscle while dieting...

when bulking, more is just plain better!



J.Smith said:


> Aus...there should be a thread titled "Ask Ausbuilt a question"...if it stayed on topic the knowledge in their would be absolutely priceless! Although I dont think you would have time as the amount of questions you already answer ia very high! But it is most appreciated.


there is on another forum... not that busy...

I"m no guru, only diff is, i dont rely on "forum" information, i rely on studies- which I link to. The science is there...



s&ccoach said:


> Do you believe GH has to be taken ed or eod? I've read people blasting their weekly amount in one go, is this something you have tried?
> 
> In response to the winny comment and injuries, I was taking 100mg winny as well as playing semi pro rugby, I ruptured my achillies. I was on tren ace and test prop as well so difficult to say what was responsible, but sprint training and rugby training is completely different to static weightlifting.


I know the approach- have tried it, didnt work for me, principally as i got sore spine/joints 4days later.. when i take 2iu/day i have no spine or joint pain... EOD is fine and take 2days worth on that day..

I dont believe in the massive blasts, as overall you're still not replicating the teenage growth spurt..


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## BodyBuilding101 (Mar 8, 2006)

Mingster said:


> I've been following the Aus 6 week bulk alternating with a 4 week cut for nearly four months now and it's working well for me. I like to think of it as Aus Lite as I only do 2 grams of aas, use more carbs on my cuts and have 3x75g of protein shakes a day


Mingster what results have you seen in 4 months? lbs gained, bf % lost etc


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

one of the big american ones i think?


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## BodyBuilding101 (Mar 8, 2006)

BONE said:


> What forum is that aus?


It's a small forum, UM are the initials ;-)


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

BodyBuilding101 said:


> It's a small forum, UM are the initials ;-)


United muscle ?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BONE said:


> What forum is that aus?


see below



J.Smith said:


> one of the big american ones i think?


I'm on promuscle, but don't post much. To much BS, except for Big A the mod. Honest, tells it like it is. Respect.



Kennyken said:


> United muscle ?


correct.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

So if you were staying on cycle permanently what would you be taking, for long term health and short/medium term well being and results?

TRT doseage, higher? What ai with it? I was surprised to see you taking chlomid eod on cycle, expected something else.


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok.

Thanks Aus....ill check UM out.

Would 50mg oxys and 45mg winny make a difference or would it be worth me doing 100 of each?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Kimball said:


> So if you were staying on cycle permanently what would you be taking, for long term health and short/medium term well being and results?
> 
> TRT doseage, higher? What ai with it? I was surprised to see you taking chlomid eod on cycle, expected something else.


TRT dose is absolutely pointless- why not just do PCT and be off? Take a look at the difference in FAT % alone between 300mg and 600mg/week Test:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long

look at fig. 1. For my money, i'd say the MIN cruise dose is 600mg. For me its 1-2g.

As for health? Injectables dont affect your liver:

"...*The problem of liver toxicity is exaggerated*. That is, while oral 17-alkylated steroids are sometimes associated with liver toxicity, the *common oil-based injectables don't present the same kind of liver burden*.2 Indeed, this has been the observation of several other doctors familiar with anabolic steroid therapy for AIDS, like Dr. Julian Gold,3 and Dr. Caroline Becker, an endocrinologist with a large practice in Mt. Kisco, N.Y., who underlined this when she said, "*Even with individuals with pre-existing liver disease I would have no compunction in giving them injectable testosterone*."4"

from: http://www.medibolics.com/comment2.htm

and as I've posted before, C-17 Orals have even been trialled to REPAIR the DAMAGED liver of Alcoholics:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12535450

Ok it didnt fix the livers, but it didnt hurt either...

AI wise, on doses of test above 2g, I take 1x letro/day (2.5mg). When winter comes and I do a Paul Borresson Style SHIC- 1g test/day I will use 2x letro/day. As I've posted numerous times before Arimidex or Letro (and aromasin) all INCREASE IGF-1 (nolva reduces it):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488

Arimidex is also better PCT wise:

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

As for Clomid its commonly used on cycle to prevent complete Testicular atrophy, and clomid works well:

http://www.medibolics.com/Clomid.htm (one of the few studies dealing AAS use).

Also note why clomid works:

http://www.maledoc.com/blog/2010/04/28/how-clomid-works-in-men/

I don't get any real acne of test, even at my current 3.6g/week. If I did, I would take finasteride. I dont have a cholesterol issue (and I don't recommend anti-cholesterol meds- statins, as they are horrendous drugs) or BP issue (though if you have BP issue, an ACE inhibitor such as Elanapril is good).

Frankly being on cycle is relatively healthy, as I eat clean, drink once a week, do 40min cardio 2x day (150bpm average). I'm in my 40s and pretty damn happy...



J.Smith said:


> Ok.
> 
> Thanks Aus....ill check UM out.
> 
> Would 50mg oxys and 45mg winny make a difference or would it be worth me doing 100 of each?


sure, 50mg oxys and 45mg winny makes a diff; the question is how much? to put it in perspective, I know 2 girls who do 20mg winny 3xday (60mg total) with 150mg of eq or primo/week and they make amazing progrees- but I doubt a guy would notice 45mg of winny/day.

At the end of the day, like the Bhasin study I linked above, results are dose related- more AAS is more results (both good and bad), and its up to you to balance your intake for good effects vs bad effects you may get.

You also have to be realistic. In the medical profession, oxys are prescribed at 1-5mg/kg for a MIN of 3months to get an affect; 50mg for a few weeks wont make that much of a difference to your cycle (but as Tesco says, "every little helps"!). Have a read through this paper for doses:

http://www.afboard.com/library/Review%20of%20Oxymetholone.pdf


----------



## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Once again aus! Priceless.

Right...im gonna do 1.5g test, 200mg tren, 100mg oxys and 100mg winny.

Cos its a recomp so hopefully ill add some nice lean muscle tissue


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> TRT dose is absolutely pointless- why not just do PCT and be off? Take a look at the difference in FAT % alone between 300mg and 600mg/week Test:
> 
> http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long
> 
> ...


That's great info thanks!

So other rumours/bro science stuff about osteoporosis on long cycles, etc?

600mg of test e is what I'm looking at although presumably at 49 300mg would still be significantly higher than natural?

Then on top of that chlomid eod and on that sort of dose 1 of letro/aromasin/arimidex eod? Or every day.


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Also, how do you avoid bloat? Or more bro science and a clean diet can achieve that?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

BodyBuilding101 said:


> Mingster what results have you seen in 4 months? lbs gained, bf % lost etc


I lean bulked about 9lbs over the first 6 weeks to just under 18 stone, lost 12lbs on the 4 week cut, and am back up another 7lbs on the second bulk. I don't do bodyfat percentages but I am definitely leaner at that weight than when I started the programme with increased vascularity and separation.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

m118 said:


> Aus, genuine question but on these super high doses of protein, have you had your urea and gfr checked? I know there is limited evidence on the subject on high protein and normal kidneys but since you've been doing this fire awhile I am curious . Thanks for the info as always


sorry missed this post...

Urea is in the normal range, as basically i have normal kidney function. Was part of an overall anti-aging assessment a few months back.... my "biological age" is rather good.... though the Dr said I'm "massively" overdosing on GH (2iu, 2x day) and test


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

BONE said:


> What about making a journal with your training and diet and aas use mate? Some great info in this thread thus far would be good to see your progress.
> 
> PS looks like a good cycle now. I cant wait to sept to run Test/dbol/oxys at my highest dose ever


Your going to die


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Kimball said:


> That's great info thanks!
> 
> So other rumours/bro science stuff about osteoporosis on long cycles, etc?
> 
> ...


osteoporosis? look thats an issue with post-menopausal women on long term (2years, 5years+ on nolva and AIs as part of cancer treatment). The only remaining anabolic steroid available on prescription on the NHS is deca durabolin- for treatment of osteoporosis..

So obviously if you're on AIs (you wouldnt use nolva) on your long cycle of AAS, its impossible to get osteo...

Arimidex is 1mg/day; Aromasin is 25mg/day. Either one of those is fine up to about 2g/test. After that, 2.5mg letro/day (which is what I use).



Kimball said:


> Also, how do you avoid bloat? Or more bro science and a clean diet can achieve that?


Bloat (water retention you mean?) comes from oestrogen levels being high, so take an AI as i note above, and you won't have this issue (except if taking deca, in which case you may need to take an ACE inhibitor to keep water retention down).


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

BONE said:


> And how have you reached this conclusion?


Because its a sad fact of life mate, everyone does


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

I might run a jounel on UKM, pump myself full of as many peps as possible and see if I can make myself imortal, could be a good read


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Craig660 said:


> I might run a jounel on UKM, pump myself full of as many peps as possible and see if I can make myself imortal, could be a good read


Or you could vacate a forum where this type of discussion seems to offend you in someway. The vast majority of people on here do as much as possible to be healthy on cycle.

I would rather die a lot younger but be happy and have a build to me. Than to live until I am a decrepit pensioner shuffling out an existence depending on the help of others.


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

RowRow said:


> *Or you could vacate a forum where this type of discussion seems to offend you in someway.* The vast majority of people on here do as much as possible to be healthy on cycle.
> 
> I would rather die a lot younger but be happy and have a build to me. Than to live until I am a decrepit pensioner shuffling out an existence depending on the help of others.


Calm down mate I was only messing about, I have cycled quite a few times cheers.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Craig660 said:


> Calm down mate I was only messing about, I have cycled quite a few times cheers.


Well that's no fun I wanted a good old argument.


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

RowRow said:


> Well that's no fun I wanted a good old argument.


Ok then - Your going to die, you steroid taking cnut


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> osteoporosis? look thats an issue with post-menopausal women on long term (2years, 5years+ on nolva and AIs as part of cancer treatment). The only remaining anabolic steroid available on prescription on the NHS is deca durabolin- for treatment of osteoporosis..
> 
> So obviously if you're on AIs (you wouldnt use nolva) on your long cycle of AAS, its impossible to get osteo...
> 
> ...


Thanks again I'll drop the letro from my planned cycle and add arimidex unless there's any reason to go with aromasin instead? Like blood pressure.

Also a number of people saying chlomid will have no effect on testicular function and hcg is the only thing worth using. My understanding is that you are using chlomid?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Im gonna keep it simple..no tren.

2g Test. 1mg adex. 100mg oxys + winny.

two baby asprins ed. 100mcg t3 ed.

Ill start tuesday when i can get AAS and log in here.

THANKS AUS"


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

J.Smith said:


> Im gonna keep it simple..no tren.
> 
> 2g Test. 1mg adex. 100mg oxys + winny.
> 
> ...


the blood thinning effect from aspirin doesn't increase once you dose above 70mg


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Kimball said:


> Thanks again I'll drop the letro from my planned cycle and add arimidex unless there's any reason to go with aromasin instead? Like blood pressure.
> 
> Also a number of people saying chlomid will have no effect on testicular function and hcg is the only thing worth using. My understanding is that you are using chlomid?


There"s been numerous debates between hacks/mars and me on the clomid effectiveness. They cant show studies to support their view that "on" cycle it doesnt work (there no contention that it does work as PCT). Other forums do support the view that clomid works on cycle, notably bigA over on professionalmuscle.com

Seems to be working for me- while my testes are DEF smaller, about 70% of orig size (measured by a doc by comparing against known volume plastic testes), and my load is SMALL compared to off cycle,its not clumpy and maintains a normal consistency; after 12months on, thats pretty good. I will prob do a HCG "kicker" at the end of the month to see the difference as it will be a full 12months on cycle. From experience, last time i was on a 12month cycle, my testes resembled sultanas... so I'm very happy with Clomid so far!



J.Smith said:


> Im gonna keep it simple..no tren.
> 
> 2g Test. 1mg adex. 100mg oxys + winny.
> 
> ...


only 75-80mg aspirin max; and only if you're at risk of stroke. What risk factors do you have?


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## LeBigMac (Jul 17, 2011)

Some great reading in here

Does anyone have a link to BigA's contest prep diet?


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## Kiwi (Dec 24, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> osteoporosis? look thats an issue with post-menopausal women on long term (2years, 5years+ on nolva and AIs as part of cancer treatment). The only remaining anabolic steroid available on prescription on the NHS is deca durabolin- for treatment of osteoporosis..
> 
> So obviously if you're on AIs (you wouldnt use nolva) on your long cycle of AAS, its impossible to get osteo...
> 
> ...


Aus can you give some more info how an ACE inhibitor keeps water retention down when using deca?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

LeBigMac said:


> Some great reading in here
> 
> Does anyone have a link to BigA's contest prep diet?


I've been asked by mods not to link directly to their site, so here is a pdf:

Dieting and getting ready for Competition.pdf



Kiwi said:


> Aus can you give some more info how an ACE inhibitor keeps water retention down when using deca?


its to do with angiotensin/renin system:

"An ACE inhibitor (or angiotensin-converting-enzyme inhibitor) is a pharmaceutical drug used primarily for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure) and congestive heart failure... ACE inhibitors inhibit angiotensin-converting enzyme (a component of the blood pressure-regulating renin-angiotensin system), thereby decreasing the tension of blood vessels and blood volume, thus lowering blood pressure.

Frequently prescribed ACE inhibitors include Perindopril, captopril, enalapril, lisinopril, and ramipril."

From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACE_inhibitor

I know, now you're saying what's that go to do with Deca and water retention right? Well its to do with how the body retains water:

"...*Mechanism of action*

Angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors reduce the activity of the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system.

Renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system

One mechanism for maintaining the blood pressure is the release of a protein called renin from cells in the kidney ... This produces another protein, angiotensin, which signals the adrenal gland to produce a hormone called *aldosterone*. *This system is activated in response to a fall in blood pressure (hypotension), as well as markers of problems with the salt-water balance of the body*, such as decreased sodium concentration in the distal tubule of the kidney, decreased blood volume and stimulation of the kidney by the sympathetic nervous system. In such situations, the kidneys release renin, which acts as an enzyme and cuts off all but the first 10 amino acid residues of angiotensinogen (a protein made in the liver, and which circulates in the blood). These 10 residues are then known as angiotensin I. Angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) then removes a further two residues which converts angiotensin I into angiotensin II. Angiotensin II is found in the pulmonary circulation, as well as in the endothelium of many blood vessels.[2] *The system in general aims to increase blood pressure by **increasing the amount of salt and water the body retains*, although angiotensin is also very good at causing the blood vessels to tighten (a potent vasoconstrictor)."

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACE_inhibitor

SO HOW DOES TAKING AN ACE INHIBITOR WORK TO PREVENT WATER RETENTION WITH DECA?

From reading the above, you can see that by since angiotensisn-renin INCREASES the amount of SALT and WATER retained by the body, INHIBITING the system, by taking an ACE Inhibitor, REDUCES SALT & WATER retention in the body.

So when using Deca, if experiencing bloat/water retention, take Enalapril or similar.

This is a different method than when taking test, as the water retention from taking test (dbol as well) comes from aromatisation to oestrogen, and some of the functions of oestrogen include:

"..While estrogens are present in both men and women, they are usually present at significantly higher levels in women of reproductive age. They promote the development of female secondary sexual characteristics, such as breasts, and are also involved in the thickening of the endometrium and other aspects of regulating the menstrual cycle. In males, estrogen regulates certain functions of the reproductive system important to the maturation of sperm[10][11][12] and may be necessary for a healthy libido.[13][14] Furthermore, there are *several other structural changes induced by estrogen* in addition to other functions:

...

*Lipid*

-Increase HDL, triglyceride

-Decrease LDL, fat deposition

*Fluid balance*

-Salt (sodium) and water retention

-Increase cortisol, SHBG..."

from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen

So you can see that taking an AI will reduce excess oestrogen, and hence reduce water retention when on test/dbol. However deca is a progestin, and when taking this, an alternative method, via the angiotensin renin system noted above is the answer.

Hope this helps..


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Where can u buy enalapril?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> Where can u buy enalapril?


ADC mate


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> ADC mate


What's delivery cost ?


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> What's delivery cost ?


$25, so make sure you get enough nolva and clomid for 10 years to make it worth it!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Sod that lol, I'll use somewhere else


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Fatstuff said:



> Sod that lol, I'll use somewhere else


LOL, it's actually worth it when you think how cheap the enalipril, nolva and clomid are, $25 is only £15 ffs!

You will pay a lot more for the meds off your local source


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## LeBigMac (Jul 17, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> I've been asked by mods not to link directly to their site, so here is a pdf:
> 
> View attachment 86633


Thanks for the link.


----------



## LeBigMac (Jul 17, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> I've been asked by mods not to link directly to their site, so here is a pdf:
> 
> View attachment 86633


Thanks for the link.


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> LOL, it's actually worth it when you think how cheap the enalipril, nolva and clomid are, $25 is only £15 ffs!
> 
> You will pay a lot more for the meds off your local source


I pay few quid for nolva n clomid - got plenty of it, up have got it but can't remember delivery cost


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## Kiwi (Dec 24, 2008)

:



ausbuilt said:


> I've been asked by mods not to link directly to their site, so here is a pdf:
> 
> View attachment 86633
> 
> ...


Great information shared. Thanks mate. :thumbup1:


----------



## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Great thread this aus!

So if im just gonna run test alone...with oxys and winny - Enalapril isn't needed?


----------



## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

the thing im wondering about is how much enalapril to take per day etc & what dosage?


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

infernal0988 said:


> the thing im wondering about is how much enalapril to take per day etc & what dosage?


http://www.bnf.org/bnf/index.htm


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Could i replace my chicken with white fish...say if i normaly would have 3 10oz chicken breasts a day...could i just switch to 3 x 10oz fresh haddock?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> Could i replace my chicken with white fish...say if i normaly would have 3 10oz chicken breasts a day...could i just switch to 3 x 10oz fresh haddock?


As long as the macro's add up then sure, I do this all the time to stop it getting boring mate


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

True..and the fish is fresh..as my mate works for a big fish traders.

Im now going away on 2nd September..so this will be a cut/recomp.

Will update when everything is finalised.


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Aus,

How do you combat constipation with such high doses of protein?


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lifter said:


> Aus,
> 
> How do you combat constipation with such high doses of protein?


I've been using psyllium husk powder about 20g per day. Made a massive difference I was really struggling before but now never been better.


----------



## imabigguy (Oct 4, 2011)

Aus what reccomendations would you make whilst using clen during a diet? will be using it alongside dnp/T3 as well as test/tren/eq i was searching your posts but couldnt find much on how you would use it i followed the usual tapering last time start on 40 up to 120 but was wondering if you had any alternative ideas? As per usual any advice is appreciated off you mate thanks


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

anab0lic said:


> you dont need to eat this much protein guys....


How much then mate ? I'm starting my first cycle soon !


----------



## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

The Lifter said:


> Aus,
> 
> How do you combat constipation with such high doses of protein?


Brewers yeast is something many people massively overlook.


----------



## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

anab0lic said:


> you dont need to eat this much protein guys....


Natty for sure. But this isnt natty protein syn can increase 2-3 times of natty levels


----------



## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

BONE said:


> Big A reccommends 500g daily even if off cycle


Fcuk a duck


----------



## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

BONE said:


> Big A reccommends 500g daily even if off cycle


lolwut? 500g off cycle seriously?

Any science to back up its actually needed or is it a case of more brotein more gains science?


----------



## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Where's Ausbuilt when we need him...will be a good debate


----------



## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

anab0lic said:


> Big A also gives out some of the worst training advice ive ever seen....
> 
> Dorian Yates ate less protein than some of the numbers i see being thrown around here and the guy was twice the size of you.... and on far more drugs too....
> 
> You do realize that all the excess you are eating is getting converted to glucose to meet the bodys energy demands? And you guys are going to have a **** load of excess because you don need anywhere near what you are ingesting....your basically running a protein/cab diet that's 3x as expensive as it normally would be.


i started a thread recently on this topic of evidence and protein intake, and there's basically very little studies done and in quite a few, extra protein beyond the typical 1g/lb didnt provide any additional benefit. but thats without AAS.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

The last pct i done i upped my protein to about 500g a day in the hope of combating muscle loss, made no differance whats so ever, i still shrunk like a bitch and carried on slowly shrinking till i went back on cycle.

Save your money for your next cycle.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

The Lifter said:


> Aus,
> 
> How do you combat constipation with such high doses of protein?


ok 2 of my meals have salad. By this I mean, 1 salad= 200g of mixed lettuce/salad leaves; 100g cherry tomatoes (or similar), 1 whole bell peppar, 1/2 avocado and 1/2 cucumber.

Have 2 of those a day, believe me, constipation is non-existant....

I add 250g of chicken breast cut up to each salad and toss through. They are my two lunches. Dinner is similar, or can be steamed broccolli/beans/cauliflower with meat. I also have either strawberries or rasperries and an apple through the day, so overall carbs are about 50g, and theres a load of fibre...



imabigguy said:


> Aus what reccomendations would you make whilst using clen during a diet? will be using it alongside dnp/T3 as well as test/tren/eq i was searching your posts but couldnt find much on how you would use it i followed the usual tapering last time start on 40 up to 120 but was wondering if you had any alternative ideas? As per usual any advice is appreciated off you mate thanks


tapering is pointless if your going to use 120-200mcg/day. The medical protocol is to use clen for months, increasing 1 tab a day, up to 720mcg! Do a google search, this is called the Harefield protocol- over 6months or so, the patients (all cardiac patients) increased LBM by 2-4kg!


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> ok 2 of my meals have salad. By this I mean, 1 salad= 200g of mixed lettuce/salad leaves; 100g cherry tomatoes (or similar), 1 whole bell peppar, 1/2 avocado and 1/2 cucumber.
> 
> Have 2 of those a day, believe me, constipation is non-existant....
> 
> ...


Is that all the carbs in that lot! Much better way to get it.

Do you use shakes, what about carbs in those or other stuff. I do struggle to keep carbs as low as I would like to.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

anab0lic said:


> Big A also gives out some of the worst training advice ive ever seen....
> 
> Dorian Yates ate less protein than some of the numbers i see being thrown around here and the guy was twice the size of you.... and on far more drugs too....
> 
> You do realize that all the excess you are eating is getting converted to glucose to meet the bodys energy demands? And you guys are going to have a **** load of excess because you don need anywhere near what you are ingesting....your basically running a protein/cab diet that's 3x as expensive as it normally would be.


training advice wise, BigA's is not that different to Dorian's for bulking.... and when it comes to training, there is more variation in what works. Diet and AAS wise, you will see common themes between BigA, A.L.Rea and Paul Borresson- basically more is better, and time of is time going backwards.

As for protein intake, i like the 500g protein, and vary the carbs and fats to manipulate BF levels. The main reason is excess protein cannot be stored as fat; but wait, it could be turned in to carbs (gluconeogenesis) which is true.... BUT this is GREATLY reduced with AAS- the reason is, they explicitly FORCE the body to retain N3+ (nitrogen) which is the active constituent of NH3 (amine group that makes up an amino acid, the building blocks of protein). Consequently gluconeogenesis is not a factor; this means that energy requirements are made up of carbs or fat. If these macros are in excess they WILL be stored as fats, however if they are low, and excess protein cannot be used for energy via gluconeogenesis, then body fat is used...

Further if you're on AAS, and T3, you really do benefit from the 500g protein. However, I also think this is excessive, and of no benefit to a natty, but then nattys are very limited in the amount of muscle they can build in the first place...



m118 said:


> i started a thread recently on this topic of evidence and protein intake, and there's basically very little studies done and in quite a few, extra protein beyond the typical 1g/lb didnt provide any additional benefit. but thats without AAS.


i think this is probably true for nattys. AAS are definitely required for the high protein diet, and T3 is also beneficial.



Dead lee said:


> The last pct i done i upped my protein to about 500g a day in the hope of combating muscle loss, made no differance whats so ever, i still shrunk like a bitch and carried on slowly shrinking till i went back on cycle.
> 
> Save your money for your next cycle.


completely agree! if off-cycle, you cannot support the muscle you carried ON CYCLE, regardless of what you eat or how hard you try and train. If you could, you would not have needed the AAS to build the muscle in the first place.

This is why if you look at the cycles of A.L.Rea, there is effectively only 2 weeks "off cycle' between cycles, which is part of the 4 weeks of PCT! Paul Borresson stated explicitly, when asked how long to have "off-cycle":

"...At least 15 days, which comes to 21 days after your last shot. But *if you wait too much longer than three weeks, you're going backwards in your progress*. You'll spend time "making up" for what you've lost, even if you use anti-catabolics."

from: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/advanced_chemical_warfare_an_interview_with_paul_borresen

Thats why I follow BigA's advice, which is simpler, and is basically stay on cycle always, unless you're sick or failing to progress. Really, this is not to different then having 2 weeks between shots on repeated cycles recommended by Rea and Borresson.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Kimball said:


> Is that all the carbs in that lot! Much better way to get it.
> 
> Do you use shakes, what about carbs in those or other stuff. I do struggle to keep carbs as low as I would like to.


carbs in lettuce: http://www.carbohydrate-counter.org/veg/search.php?cat=Lettuce&fg=1100

note that 2.2g per 100g, and thats fibrous carbs, not sugars..

my carbs are always between 50-70g total for the day in sugars, mostly from the fruits. I use a zero carb whey shake for my shakes (made with water naturally).

The salad is filling, and keeps you regular, low GI fruits are similar.

of the low/zero carbshakes (i.e 1g carbs per 100g or under), dymatize iso 100 tastes the best.


----------



## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Aus...

I'm starting to sneeze after every protein shake and feel a little sick. As well as hiccup....is this an intolerance to protein powder, i never got it before and its the same brand.

Im adding 1teaspoon to 2shakes which contains Ultra Greens(alfalfa...etc) and refucol by H&B which is full of good bacteria.

Also...say if you were aiming for 400g protein...could you have 4meals x 100g protein....for convenience...or would say 8 x 50g meals be better?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> Aus...
> 
> I'm starting to sneeze after every protein shake and feel a little sick. As well as hiccup....is this an intolerance to protein powder, i never got it before and its the same brand.
> 
> ...


i don't believe in eating funny additives like ultra greens- just eat some veg. Unless you're on anti-biotics, you have enough gut bacteria.

Apart from that, sneezing is an allergy- could be food, could be hayfever- get tested for food allergies at the Dr. In the meantime take an anti-histamine.

Protein wise, as long as its a complete protein (whey is, meat is, fish is, vegetable proteins are not) it frankly makes no difference if you got all your protein from shakes.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2012)

definitely 8.

milos nutritional video






cant remember what time it is, but compares identical twins given the same food for the day, with one spreading his consumption and the other eating less but larger meals, and the former being most productive


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

i thought it didnt really matter if you had 4 meals or 8 as long as you get the desired macro's the difference will be minimal


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> carbs in lettuce: http://www.carbohydrate-counter.org/veg/search.php?cat=Lettuce&fg=1100
> 
> note that 2.2g per 100g, and thats fibrous carbs, not sugars..
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks. I'll look into those for my next protein order.


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Cheers Aus.

Appointment booked for 2nd July for allergy testing.

will get an anti histamine tonight.

I just assumed it would be something in the whey making me sneeze.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> Cheers Aus.
> 
> Appointment booked for 2nd July for allergy testing.
> 
> ...


for a young guy.... you do seem to have a lot seem to go wrong....


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Im just unlucky i guess. Ill know anyone if i have an allergy soon enough.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> training advice wise, BigA's is not that different to Dorian's for bulking.... and when it comes to training, there is more variation in what works. Diet and AAS wise, you will see common themes between BigA, A.L.Rea and Paul Borresson- basically more is better, and time of is time going backwards.
> 
> As for protein intake, i like the 500g protein, and vary the carbs and fats to manipulate BF levels. The main reason is excess protein cannot be stored as fat; but wait, it could be turned in to carbs (gluconeogenesis) which is true.... BUT this is GREATLY reduced with AAS- the reason is, they explicitly FORCE the body to retain N3+ (nitrogen) which is the active constituent of NH3 (amine group that makes up an amino acid, the building blocks of protein). Consequently gluconeogenesis is not a factor; this means that energy requirements are made up of carbs or fat. If these macros are in excess they WILL be stored as fats, however if they are low, and excess protein cannot be used for energy via gluconeogenesis, then body fat is used...
> 
> ...


Aus what protocol do you recommend for t3 if your a) bulking and B) dieting


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

s&ccoach said:


> Aus what protocol do you recommend for t3 if your a) bulking and B) dieting


Hope you don't me giving my opinion on this.....I use 50-75mcg when bulking, purely for PTOR, when cutting I use 100-150mcg ED, I find I get the temp increase around the 100mcg mark so I usually drop a tab or 2 back for the bulking phase


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Just to pick at a post of Aus's veg proteins are far better for you and more bio-available than any meat or dairy protein..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

MXD said:


> Just to pick at a post of Aus's veg proteins are far better for you and more bio-available than any meat or dairy protein..


apart from soy reducing cholesterol, I wouldn't say they are better. As for which is better, depends on what you're actually measuring:

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/articles-and-newletters/research-articles-index/nutrition-wellness/animal-vs-vegetable-protein-debate-what-is-the-best-protein-for-muscle-growth/


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

I always thought Soy wasn't advised for a male?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> Hope you don't me giving my opinion on this.....I use 50-75mcg when bulking, purely for PTOR, when cutting I use 100-150mcg ED, I find I get the temp increase around the 100mcg mark so I usually drop a tab or 2 back for the bulking phase


not a bad approach.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> Hope you don't me giving my opinion on this.....I use 50-75mcg when bulking, purely for PTOR, when cutting I use 100-150mcg ED, I find I get the temp increase around the 100mcg mark so I usually drop a tab or 2 back for the bulking phase


not a bad approach.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> not a bad approach.


Do you believe in building up to 100-150mcg or just jump straight in?


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> Hope you don't me giving my opinion on this.....I use 50-75mcg when bulking, purely for PTOR, when cutting I use 100-150mcg ED, I find I get the temp increase around the 100mcg mark so I usually drop a tab or 2 back for the bulking phase


Does using t3 on a bulk help can you tell the difference? Also at that dose 50-75 can it help keep you lean to a certain degree even if you are bulking


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

baggsy said:


> Does using t3 on a bulk help can you tell the difference? Also at that dose 50-75 can it help keep you lean to a certain degree even if you are bulking


Also at that dose 50-75 can it help keep you lean to a certain degree even if you are bulking[?

X2 or is it purely to increase protein synthesis


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

baggsy said:


> Does using t3 on a bulk help can you tell the difference? Also at that dose 50-75 can it help keep you lean to a certain degree even if you are bulking


it increases PTOR (protein turn over rate). However, it will not keep you lean if you "bulk" as in eat loads; it will help if your bulk is about 300-400cals over maintenance, mainly from protein and complex carbs. To keep lean you have to have an increase in measured body temp- however, even that cant keep you lean when really bulking- put simply even though 25mcg is the normal t3 output, even 10x that doesnt double your metabolic rate; but it does increase it measurably, and this helps when DIETING...



s&ccoach said:


> Also at that dose 50-75 can it help keep you lean to a certain degree even if you are bulking[?
> 
> X2 or is it purely to increase protein synthesis


purely protein synthesis/turnover, its not enough to keep lean. Just remember- RECEPTORS are proteins! so these renew faster when PTOR increases.. this keeps your gains coming on longer cycles.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> it increases PTOR (protein turn over rate). However, it will not keep you lean if you "bulk" as in eat loads; it will help if your bulk is about 300-400cals over maintenance, mainly from protein and complex carbs. To keep lean you have to have an increase in measured body temp- however, even that cant keep you lean when really bulking- put simply even though 25mcg is the normal t3 output, even 10x that doesnt double your metabolic rate; but it does increase it measurably, and this helps when DIETING...
> 
> purely protein synthesis/turnover, its not enough to keep lean. Just remember- RECEPTORS are proteins! so these renew faster when PTOR increases.. this keeps your gains coming on longer cycles.


In dieting with t3 would you taper the dose up and down?

Would u run clen 2 weeks then eca 2 weeks alongside t3?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Im aiming for around 400g protein, 100g carbs or slightly less on training days(my whey has carbs) and as low as possible on non training days. Carbs will be whatevers in my fish,chicken and a bit of mince plus 5-10g fish oil also.

Cardio will be for 45minutes on PWO days only to start.....what do people think of that?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

s&ccoach said:


> In dieting with t3 would you taper the dose up and down?
> 
> Would u run clen 2 weeks then eca 2 weeks alongside t3?


you only need to taper to find the dose you need to increase body temp as i've posted before. after that, its straight off when stopping, and straight back to that dose when on again.

if you're not measuring body temp (silly) then pick a dose and go straight on and come straight off. Tapering is of no benefit with t3, in fact it extends recovery time...

there is some mistake amongst american forums, or some myth that clen stops working or receptors shut down, after 2 weeks; medically this is rubbish:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16962470

yes you read that right, tapered up to 720mcg of clen, and used over 46 weeks.... and the patients gained skeletal muscle mass from the clen at that dose.

dieting wise run clen alongside the t3 as long as you want.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> you only need to taper to find the dose you need to increase body temp as i've posted before. after that, its straight off when stopping, and straight back to that dose when on again.
> 
> if you're not measuring body temp (silly) then pick a dose and go straight on and come straight off. Tapering is of no benefit with t3, in fact it extends recovery time...
> 
> ...


I nearly choked on my lunch reading the dose they took! Wow, I'm back on the Clen tomorrow, going straight in at 720mcg...................Fcuk that! I shake like hell on 120mcg!

Nice to know it's fine to run for longer than the normal 2 weeks on/off method though


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks like anabolic realised he was wrong. Didnt want to argue against Aus! hah


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

BONE said:


> 160mcg for me and ive the shakes. So i tend to stick with 120mcg. Ive started dnp yest at 200mg ed and 100mcg t3 ed still dont feel hot or sweaty and did a 4mile run before lunch and was fine. When did you find DNP made you hot and sweaty and made cardio a struggle?


Cardio???? Wtf is that! Lol

Mate it will get you(DNP) I was a proper sweaty fcuker after2-3 days!

Really couldn't cope with any more than 200mg and I respect the people that can! Lol


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Aus...

If I wanted to run Dnp for say 2weeks just to speed up fat loss then maybe continue running If sides aren't too bad...

Would 300g protein, minimal carbs and some essential fats with t3 a good dose of test and 60mins cardio everyday...would I still maintain my muscle whilst dropping a nice amount of fat?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

I have bought a second hand cross trainer so will put that in my room..means i can do 30-45mins AM cardio in my hoodie so no one else can see how unfit and sweaty I am!

Once im happy with how lean I am...would 3-4 high intensity training sessions a week to keep my cardio vascular levels high?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> Aus...
> 
> If I wanted to run Dnp for say 2weeks just to speed up fat loss then maybe continue running If sides aren't too bad...
> 
> Would 300g protein, minimal carbs and some essential fats with t3 a good dose of test and 60mins cardio everyday...would I still maintain my muscle whilst dropping a nice amount of fat?


of course. AAS will retain muscle. Hour of cardio on dnp? good luck..


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

I mean 2 x 30min split sessions, one am and one either pwo or before bed like in the Dieting and Getting ready for competition pdf.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> I mean 2 x 30min split sessions, one am and one either pwo or before bed like in the Dieting and Getting ready for competition pdf.


Got a link to the PDF mate?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Not on the work computer...Aus has posted it on here before somewhere im sure.

Called Dieting and Getting Ready for Competition


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok&#8230;so plans are set.

Started Monday but have only added in the cardio as of today.

Diet

Will be aiming for 400g of protein, under 100g carbs on training days and low fats. Carbs will be around 50g on non-training days.

AAS

4ml Test 400 + 100mg Oxys + 100mg Winny

1mg Arimidex ed

50mg clomid eod

100mcg T3 2days on/2off

DNP

It's too warm and muggy and DNP gets me quite bad, lose strength and feel very tired. So been reading into some stuff by Max(MXD) who ran it 200mg on a Friday night and another 200mg Monday AM&#8230;this means by Monday pm when ill train again it will be just about out my system yet ill still get the increase in metabolism without making you feel crap. I may look at increasing to 400mg Friday and 200mg Sat AM. Have 8weeks till I go away so hopefully it will help me shift a few extra lbs.

Cardio.

Starting today Im doing 20mins pre breakfast Mon-Saturday and I'll be adding in a further 30mins PWO on training days only.

Supplements.

Ill be taking the MyProtein VMax AM + PM multivitamin

Vitamin E 400 x 2 per day

Vitamin C - 1g x 3 per day

Vitamin B Super Complex x 2per day

5g Omega Fish Oil

5-10g Ultra Greens Powder

Think that's pretty much it.

Ill put pictures up every 2weeks&#8230;.took some on Monday so a week on Monday I'll put those up and the comparison ones.

NO planned cheat days&#8230;.although I may have a little 3-400g carb reefed on a Sunday as with the DNP this should increase my metabolism further.

Opinions?


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2012)

> got a link to pdf mate


 page 7 Attachment 86633, cant link it dont know how


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> Ok&#8230;so plans are set.
> 
> Started Monday but have only added in the cardio as of today.
> 
> ...


How come 2 days on/off of t3?


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

halflife is like 2.5days..


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> halflife is like 2.5days..


With an active life of 3-4 hours!! I run my T3 ED and split the dose x2 daily


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Aus has always said 2days on/2off......

Gonna be using Burr Labs or Med Tech too.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> Aus has always said 2days on/2off......
> 
> Gonna be using Burr Labs or Med Tech too.


Yeah that's so you don't(or maybe delay) shut down your own production quicker.

Can run it longer doing the 2 on/2off method

Whichever way you run it(I just run straight cycles) Its best to split the dose x2 daily


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

right ok...ill have a look at that.

Im hoping i can drop 6-8% bf maybe in 8weeks.

Will be interesting to see how the DNP helps just by running it at the weekend.

Opinions on my ideas?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> right ok...ill have a look at that.
> 
> Im hoping i can drop 6-8% bf maybe in 8weeks.
> 
> ...


Run DNP for as long as you can take but I would run it ED mate but would be interested to see how you get on with your proposed method


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Im sweating in my office as it is mate....couldnt take it ED id die! lol.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2012)

Wow just read this whole thread, reps to ausbuilt


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## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

J.Smith said:


> Im sweating in my office as it is mate....couldnt take it ED id die! lol.


DNP half life is 3 days, so even if you take it friday itll still be in your body on monday... just sayin


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

half life is 36hours iirc...if i do 200mg friday night and 200mg sat am...by 5pm monday ill only have like 20-50mg active...so really wont affect me much.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

J.Smith said:


> half life is 36hours iirc...if i do 200mg friday night and 200mg sat am...by 5pm monday ill only have like 20-50mg active...so really wont affect me much.


You'll have more than mate, if you took 200mg on a Monday you would have 100mg in you 36 hours later, then 50mg 36 hours later and so on......


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## totalwar (Jan 19, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> carbs in lettuce: http://www.carbohydrate-counter.org/veg/search.php?cat=Lettuce&fg=1100
> 
> note that 2.2g per 100g, and thats fibrous carbs, not sugars..
> 
> ...


just looked on amozon for dymatize iso 100 , its not cheap at £79.99 for 2270g

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dymatize-ISO-100-Protein-Isolate-Banana/dp/B008CZHH9M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1341584938&sr=8-2

been useing my protine whey isolate £75 for 5KG http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/impact_whey_isolate

is there any reason why you dont use my protine?

its alot cheaper and is the same

thanks


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## WelshTraveller (Aug 14, 2012)

Great read this just sorted out my whole course for the next 3 months 

- - - Updated - - -

Great read this just sorted out my whole course for the next 3 months


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

totalwar said:


> just looked on amozon for dymatize iso 100 , its not cheap at £79.99 for 2270g
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dymatize-ISO-100-Protein-Isolate-Banana/dp/B008CZHH9M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1341584938&sr=8-2
> 
> ...


http://www.bodybuilding4you.co.uk/dymatize-iso-100-isolate-5lb.html

thats post the VAT increase, I was paying £47-53 for it before.

- - - Updated - - -



totalwar said:


> just looked on amozon for dymatize iso 100 , its not cheap at £79.99 for 2270g
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dymatize-ISO-100-Protein-Isolate-Banana/dp/B008CZHH9M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1341584938&sr=8-2
> 
> ...


http://www.bodybuilding4you.co.uk/dymatize-iso-100-isolate-5lb.html

thats post the VAT increase, I was paying £47-53 for it before.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> http://www.bodybuilding4you.co.uk/dymatize-iso-100-isolate-5lb.html
> 
> thats post the VAT increase, I was paying £47-53 for it before.
> 
> ...


Chocolate fudge


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## WelshTraveller (Aug 14, 2012)

Ausbuilt I've got another question based on this then.

If the high protein levels in the diet combined with all other things going into the system force the body to retain protein and burn other excess fuels, then burn bodyfat, does this then mean that as long as the calories are at the sufficient level, the balance of the calories between fats and carbs in the excess is irrelevant i.e. it will burn off these and then hit the bodyfat?

Reason why I ask is I have had some good success with the keto diet, but just seem to puff up when throwing carbs into the diet. Would prefer to run higher fats and less carbs, yet still get the gains/changes I am looking for.


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## Hawker90j (Aug 31, 2020)

Yeh mad thread bump but the doses here are ridiculous. You don't need all that to grow. Madness. Drug abuse at its finest.


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## Youdontknowme (Jul 7, 2020)

Oh s**t haha. Where is this aus fella now? Still alive? We need someone going against the grain recommending 3G test!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Youdontknowme said:


> Oh s**t haha. Where is this aus fella now? Still alive? We need someone going against the grain recommending 3G test!


 No

No...we really don't :lol:


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## Youdontknowme (Jul 7, 2020)

stuey99 said:


> No
> 
> No...we really don't :lol:


 But he provided sources Of his research and everything haha!

in all seriousness, someone looking to do that amount of gear (for whatever reasons) only needs one person to give the thumbs up regardless of how many say no. Dangerous!


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Youdontknowme said:


> Oh s**t haha. Where is this aus fella now? Still alive? We need someone going against the grain recommending 3G test!


 I have him on fb, yeah he's sweet, he comments on my ramblings fairly often. He's a good lad


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## Youdontknowme (Jul 7, 2020)

MXD said:


> I have him on fb, yeah he's sweet, he comments on my ramblings fairly often. He's a good lad


 Nice one! Tell him to come back, I enjoyed reading this thread!


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## sh4n3 (May 26, 2013)

Youdontknowme said:


> Oh s**t haha. Where is this aus fella now? Still alive? We need someone going against the grain recommending 3G test!


 I'm on 3 gram of test, no problem.


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## Youdontknowme (Jul 7, 2020)

sh4n3 said:


> I'm on 3 gram of test, no problem.


 I'm not saying there's anything wrong with 3G of test, or more btw.


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