# nattys lets see your 5x5 gains/physique



## jamesmacc

Enjoying doing 5x5 and wondered what sort of shape and gains people have achieved from clean eating and sticking to the 5x5 without using steroids . I am 5 weeks and happy with my strength gains, Just looking for some inspiration


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## Kristina

More on my instagram (Instagram)

Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.


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## jamesmacc

Kristina said:


> More on my instagram (Instagram)
> 
> Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.


WOW, that's incredible. You must have a very strict diet, How many calories etc are you consuming a day?


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## DaveCW

jamesmacc said:


> WOW, that's incredible. You must have a very strict diet, How many calories etc are you consuming a day?


It's all about the diet.

You can get fantastic results with a spot on diet and even mediocre training, @Kristina just had them both down pat.


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## dannythinx

Kristina said:


> More on my instagram (Instagram)
> 
> Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.


Wow


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## Pointer21

Kristina said:


> More on my instagram (Instagram)
> 
> Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.



View attachment 167069


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## ImmortalTech

Now we have guys afraid to post because @Kristina has a better physique :lol:


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## ImmortalTech

Personally it's all about the numbers for me. How much did you add to your squat, dead, bench, ohp, row...progression with dips chins etc.

While looking reasonably well of course  as long as the veins are showing I'm happy!

Before my break I took my bench from 30ish to a single @ 90kg, deadlift from 60x5 to 160x6, squat got a double @ 100 from 40kg, OHP got 50x5 from 20ish for reps....biggest was curling 50 for 12 reps, compared with 20kg for 8.


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## lukeyybrown1

Kristina said:


> More on my instagram (Instagram)
> 
> Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.


 @Kristina incredible (you single?) :lol:


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## DrBro

Kristina said:


> More on my instagram (Instagram)
> 
> Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.


Very nice body, not often I like the look of a more muscular woman figure but your balance makes it quite nice to the eye


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## naturalun

Haha at all the creeps clearly now jerking their gerken after looking at kristinas pictures, she always get the same responses.... I think she likes it!


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## lukeyybrown1

naturalun said:


> Haha at all the creeps clearly now jerking their gerken after looking at kristinas pictures, she always get the same responses.... I think she likes it!


Its not creepy. It is completely natural in all fairness.

Of course she likes it because she has got it (if you have it, flaunt it)

Nothing wrong with complementing a fellow UK muscle'rs physique (guy or gal)


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## mrwright

naturalun said:


> Haha at all the creeps clearly now jerking their gerken after looking at kristinas pictures, she always get the same responses.... I think she likes it!


I prefer to imagine being between them big strong thighs of yours big boy

Nohomo


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## mrwright

> I know which one I would rather look at....... :drool:
> 
> Alas I don't do 5X5


He said nattys pal so that's you ruled out with your ass like a 2nd hand dartboard


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## naturalun

mrwright said:


> I prefer to imagine being between them big strong thighs of yours big boy
> 
> Nohomo


Think you got wrong person mate. But if you're offering.....

Okay this is just wrong.


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## Soul keeper

Kristina said:


> More on my instagram (Instagram)
> 
> Not saying that 5 x 5 is ALL I've ever done but about 95% of my training is heavy, low rep, strength etc. I did 3 x 5 do about the first year and 5 x 5 for another chunk of the second year training... then began to incorporate more balance with volume and higher rep work (albeit very minimal...) for the past year. (Been training for almost 3 years in total). Even today majority of my lifting will be within the region of 3-6 rep ranges.



View attachment 167095


Well done!


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## mrwright

Wonder how many PMs and instagram messages kristina has got today asking to tongue punch her fart box after posting them on here


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## Heavyassweights

3rd pic = bottom boob

great work @Kristina


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## Kristina

naturalun said:


> Haha at all the creeps clearly now jerking their gerken after looking at kristinas pictures, she always get the same responses.... I think she likes it!





lukeyybrown1 said:


> Its not creepy. It is completely natural in all fairness.
> 
> Of course she likes it because she has got it (if you have it, flaunt it)
> 
> Nothing wrong with complementing a fellow UK muscle'rs physique (guy or gal)


Thank you...and thanks for understanding; of course I am proud of the work I put in. That's not to say I don't have my own insecurities and weaknesses, we are all human, but on a forum like this we should ALL certainly be proud of what we continue to achieve. That's what we're here for.


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## EpicSquats

Considering only about 3% of the forum is natty, asking to see people's natty 5 x 5 gains won't get you many replies with photos.


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## The Sweeney

Kristina said:


> Thank you...and thanks for understanding; of course I am proud of the work I put in. That's not to say I don't have my own insecurities and weaknesses, we are all human, but on a forum like this we should ALL certainly be proud of what we continue to achieve. That's what we're here for.


You're looking fab K 

I'm not ready to post any pics as I'm still too fat.

I'm chasing a bigger squat and dead lift and I'm too afraid to cut as I worry it'll affect my strength gains.

I keep promising myself that once I'm can DL 4 plates for 3 reps, I'll then start to cut.... or am I bullsh1tting myself?


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## The Sweeney

EpicSquats said:


> Considering only about 3% of the forum is natty, asking to see people's natty 5 x 5 gains won't get you many replies with photos.


I am part of that 3% 

Small, too. :lol:


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## T100

EpicSquats said:


> Considering only about 3% of the forum is natty, asking to see people's natty 5 x 5 gains won't get you many replies with photos.


It will from the users pretending to be natty


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## scot-ish

ImmortalTech said:


> Personally it's all about the numbers for me. How much did you add to your squat, dead, bench, ohp, row...progression with dips chins etc.
> 
> While looking reasonably well of course  as long as the veins are showing I'm happy!
> 
> Before my break I took my bench from 30ish to a single @ 90kg, deadlift from 60x5 to 160x6, squat got a double @ 100 from 40kg, OHP got 50x5 from 20ish for reps....biggest was curling 50 for 12 reps, compared with 20kg for 8.


you can only bench 90kg, but can curls 50kg for 12 reps??


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## Rich83

The Sweeney said:


> You're looking fab K
> 
> I'm not ready to post any pics as I'm still too fat.
> 
> I'm chasing a bigger squat and dead lift and I'm too afraid to cut as I worry it'll affect my strength gains.
> 
> I keep promising myself that once I'm can DL 4 plates for 3 reps, I'll then start to cut.... or am I bullsh1tting myself?


I lost a reasonable amount of weight, and was on a pretty low calorie intake (around 1700 starting at 245lbs, down to 230lbs) in a relitively short time, and didnt seem to lose that much strength, didn't quite stick to 5x5 as just couldnt recover from it - but overall all my lifts apart from bench went up while losing weight.

I've still plenty more to lose, but want to get in the 1,000lbs club before I diet again!


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## nWo

scot-ish said:


> you can only bench 90kg, but can curls 50kg for 12 reps??


I've always been the same as him tbf, my pulling muscles are disproportionately strong in comparison to my pushing muscles. I try and do pull day on the busiest gym hours so everyone can witness the power, whereas on pull day I go in the middle of the night so nobody can see my weakness.


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## lukeyybrown1

Kristina said:


> Thank you...and thanks for understanding; of course I am proud of the work I put in. That's not to say I don't have my own insecurities and weaknesses, we are all human, but on a forum like this we should ALL certainly be proud of what we continue to achieve. That's what we're here for.


You should be very proud! No one is perfect we all know that but your pictures probably don't even do you justice either. Well done


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## scot-ish

I said:


> I've always been the same as him tbf' date=' my pulling muscles are disproportionately strong in comparison to my pushing muscles. I try and do pull day on the busiest gym hours so everyone can witness the power, whereas on pull day I go in the middle of the night so nobody can see my weakness.[/quote']
> 
> lol, thought it was only me who ever used to do that, my deadlift at 17 was 240kg, so i ended up training it like 3 times a week so i looked strong, bench on the other hand is weak. wish it was my arms that was the stronger part lol


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## nWo

scot-ish said:


> lol, thought it was only me who ever used to do that, my deadlift at 17 was 240kg, so i ended up training it like 3 times a week so i looked strong, bench on the other hand is weak. wish it was my arms that was the stronger part lol


:laugh: My arms are generally a strong area of mine. Really, it's my rotator cuffs that let me down in pressing movements, they tend to fatigue very quickly. Doesn't help that I have long arms either, whereas in pulling movements long arms = leverage :thumbup1:


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## The Sweeney

I said:


> Doesn't help that I have long arms either' date=' whereas in pulling movements long arms = leverage :thumbup1: [/quote']
> 
> That explains a lot.
> 
> At 6'4" and a bit of a Mr Tickle, my dead lift is climbing nicely at 167.5, but my bench is stalled at 95kg and my OHP at 52kg - long arm syndrome?


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## Info Junkie

Iv long arms to an deadlift has always been my best lift , 220kg , bench on other hand is 120kg after all of progression work


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## scot-ish

oh, maybe i have long arms then, never thought much about it tbh, but my bench struggles, incline is not good, and shoulder press is my weakest movement. sounds like my shoulders let my bench down more than anything.


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## Jalex

Natty graham


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## mrwright

> What???? I don't follow pal???? What you trying to say???


That you has been on bare gear innit


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## The Sweeney

I said:


> :laugh: My arms are generally a strong area of mine. Really' date=' it's my rotator cuffs that let me down in pressing movements, they tend to fatigue very quickly. Doesn't help that I have long arms either, whereas in pulling movements long arms = leverage :thumbup1: [/quote']
> 
> Please, Sir?
> 
> Can I use long femurs as an excuse for sh1tty squat form, forward lean and weakness?


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## nWo

The Sweeney said:


> Please, Sir?
> 
> Can I use long femurs as an excuse for sh1tty squat form, forward lean and weakness?


It'll make your pushing strength weaker than your pulling strength, but in time you can still become very strong on pushing movements. Arnold had long gorilla arms and he could bench 500lbs eventually :wink:


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## The Sweeney

I said:


> It'll make your pushing strength weaker than your pulling strength' date=' but in time you can still become very strong on pushing movements. Arnold had long gorilla arms and he could bench 500lbs eventually :wink: [/quote']
> 
> To be fair, I can't do any pressing at the moment due to a RC issue and shoulder impingement problem. Any arm raising or supination is causing me pain - even changing gear in the car or turning the steering wheel right gives me twinges and shooting pains in my right shoulder. It's buggered, and my physio lady says that if it's no better by the end of the month I'll have to have a scan or x-ray to see what's ruined.
> 
> But, I'm dead lifting, rowing, squatting, and cable crossing for my country instead. Plus face pulls and all that other silly little stuff that doesn't help your ego.


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## ImmortalTech

scot-ish said:


> you can only bench 90kg, but can curls 50kg for 12 reps??


Yeah, well I could. Not atm I'm only back training a couple weeks. Infact I'm just back from training and did...

OHP 35 for 3x5

EZ Curled 30kg for 13 reps lol

Genetics mate. I've always had strong brachiallis' and abs. Plus I'm 5'8" so the bar doesn't have a massive ROM.


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## scot-ish

ImmortalTech said:


> Yeah, well I could. Not atm I'm only back training a couple weeks. Infact I'm just back from training and did...
> 
> OHP 35 for 3x5
> 
> EZ Curled 30kg for 13 reps lol
> 
> Genetics mate. I've always had strong brachiallis' and abs. Plus I'm 5'8" so the bar doesn't have a massive ROM.


wish that was my problem, arms are not very strong, and i dont think i've got abs... had their winter coat on for about 5 years lol


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## Big Man 123

@Kristina

Just saw your instagram pictures, killer body, you definitely know your game.

So you are 8 weeks out?


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## Kristina

Big Man 123 said:


> @Kristina
> 
> Just saw your instagram pictures, killer body, you definitely know your game.
> 
> So you are 8 weeks out?


Thanks! Yep almost 7.5 weeks now ahhh!!


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## HJC1972

> What???? I don't follow pal???? What you trying to say???


Think he's saying your **** has seen more pricks than a second hand dart board. As a natural myself I'd hope that he's referring to needles. I could live with that accusation, even if it be false but what else it could be construed as, well......


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## Big Man 123

Kristina said:


> Thanks! Yep almost 7.5 weeks now ahhh!!


Hell yeah! What competition will you be doing?


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## Fissure

Been training 5x5(some 3x5) for only 6 months.

Not trained before, so I'm doing not to bad.

Squats - 182.5kg (185 on Friday)

Deadlift - 210kg

Bench - 112.5kg

Row - 117.5kg

Press - 67.5kg (not improving ha!)

Can't wait to get a year under my belt!


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## EpicSquats

Fissure said:


> Been training 5x5(some 3x5) for only 6 months.
> 
> Not trained before, so I'm doing not to bad.
> 
> Squats - 182.5kg (185 on Friday)
> 
> Deadlift - 210kg
> 
> Bench - 112.5kg
> 
> Row - 117.5kg
> 
> Press - 67.5kg (not improving ha!)
> 
> Can't wait to get a year under my belt!


Don't worry too much about your press, I'm pretty sure as your bench goes up your press will go up too. Maybe not at the same rate, but it will go up. Some good weights there by the way.


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## ImmortalTech

scot-ish said:


> wish that was my problem, arms are not very strong, and i dont think i've got abs... had their winter coat on for about 5 years lol


Haha. Everyones got um, just can't seem um 

Only ever had proper visible abs once myself. It messes with your head once you put weight back on.

As long as the veins are showing, I'm happy  it's all about the weight being moved!


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## The Sweeney

Fissure said:


> Been training 5x5(some 3x5) for only 6 months.
> 
> Not trained before, so I'm doing not to bad.
> 
> Squats - 182.5kg (185 on Friday)
> 
> Deadlift - 210kg
> 
> Bench - 112.5kg
> 
> Row - 117.5kg
> 
> Press - 67.5kg (not improving ha!)
> 
> Can't wait to get a year under my belt!


That's amazing.

I'm 6'4, 100kg and my stats are nowhere near yours and I've been lifting 9 months now.

Dead = 167.5

Squat = 100

Bench = 95

OHP = 52

Row = 70

I feel rather pathetic now.


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## HJC1972

Kristina said:


> .


Jesus! You could crack walnuts between them!


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> That's amazing.
> 
> I'm 6'4, 100kg and my stats are nowhere near yours and I've been lifting 9 months now.
> 
> I feel rather pathetic now.


Don't feel like that buddy, there is always going to be someone stronger than you out there who weighs less.

Besides at 6'4" I'd imagine you have very long limbs! Weight has to travel more = harder lift!


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## Fissure

The Sweeney said:


> That's amazing.
> 
> I'm 6'4, 100kg and my stats are nowhere near yours and I've been lifting 9 months now.
> 
> Dead = 167.5
> 
> Squat = 100
> 
> Bench = 95
> 
> OHP = 52
> 
> Row = 70
> 
> I feel rather pathetic now.


Cheers.

Wouldn't be complaining with yours either, they are good lifts!

Just been grinding myself in my gym.

Hoping to get that 200kg squat by summer,

But after today's workout it looks like even earlier


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## Kristina

Big Man 123 said:


> Hell yeah! What competition will you be doing?


Will be the Portsmouth Guildhall (UKBFF Qualifiers) in the bodyfitness category on April 26th. Can't wait... going to be an interesting experience that's for sure!


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## ImmortalTech

Fissure said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Wouldn't be complaining with yours either, they are good lifts!
> 
> Just been grinding myself in my gym.
> 
> Hoping to get that 200kg squat by summer,
> 
> But after today's workout it looks like even earlier


You better make that journal before hitting a 200kg squat lol. Get one up!


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## The Sweeney

Fissure said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Wouldn't be complaining with yours either!
> 
> Just been grinding myself in my gym.
> 
> Hoping to get that 200kg squat by summer,
> 
> But after today's workout it looks like even earlier


I've been religious, never missed a session, never given anything but my best.

But... I've had squat form issues and core strength problems and seem to be always injured, especially my shoulders which has seen me unable to press since mid December.

Excuses, excuses, I know, but despite my intense efforts, I've often felt thwarted. Maybe being 39 years old and from a sedentary office job hasn't helped.

I'll get there.

Good for you though, bro!!


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## Fissure

The Sweeney said:


> I've been religious, never missed a session, never given anything but my best.
> 
> But... I've had squat form issues and core strength problems and seem to be always injured, especially my shoulders which has seen me unable to press since mid December.
> 
> Excuses, excuses, I know, but despite my intense efforts, I've often felt thwarted. Maybe being 39 years old and from a sedentary office job hasn't helped.
> 
> I'll get there.
> 
> Good for you though, bro!!


Not doubting your intensity.

I actually had the same problems with my core to begin with.

I did variations of planks 6 days a week during the start,

For a few months...that seemed to help my strength!

Injuries are a pain, thankfully I have not come across any so far.

For both our sakes, I wish rome WAS built in a day!


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## The Sweeney

Fissure said:


> Not doubting your intensity.
> 
> I actually had the same problems with my core to begin with.
> 
> I did variations of planks 6 days a week during the start,
> 
> For a few months...that seemed to help my strength!
> 
> Injuries are a pain, thankfully I have not come across any so far.
> 
> For both our sakes, I wish rome WAS built in a day!


It's official - I suck donkey balls.

Actually, if I did suck donkey balls, at least the donkey would be getting something out of it, where tonight, nobody got anything out of anything. Especially not me.

Just had the poorest session I think I've ever had.

Went through my squat routine warm up as usual, but all the way through things didn't feel right.

I didn't have the tightness in my core and I could feel my upper back wanting to collapse onto my knees, even under light weight.

My hips were hurting all the way through the ROM as they were still sore from Mondays PB dead lift.

I got to my 100kg work set and had to rack it after the 1st rep which I only just managed to grind out.

I gave it a minute, recomposed, deep breaths, reset everything, gritted my teeth and tried again - 1 rep by the ugliest skin of my teeth.

I just didn't have the energy, fight or power in me tonight so racked up and did the rest of my routine.

For the last three weeks I've just managed to get 100 x 5 with iffy form so I decided to stick at the weight until my form was better before progressing, but tonight was a step back for sure.

I guess some days you get to be the windscreen, other days only get to be the fly.


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## scot-ish

deload to 80 or 90kg, get your full sets out untill you get some extra reps, then up the weight again, sometimes deloading is the best thing you can do.


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## ImmortalTech

@The Sweeney

Hows your diet and recovery (sleep, rest) been the last couple weeks?

Is it just squats you feel you aren't going well?

Could be a hundred reasons to be honest mate. Warming up, stretching right, deload, time off needed....don't sweat it, just make sure you tick all the boxes before beating yourself up :thumbup1:

Good luck.


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> @The Sweeney
> 
> Hows your diet and recovery (sleep, rest) been the last couple weeks?
> 
> Is it just squats you feel you aren't going well?
> 
> Could be a hundred reasons to be honest mate. Warming up, stretching right, deload, time off needed....don't sweat it, just make sure you tick all the boxes before beating yourself up :thumbup1:
> 
> Good luck.


Well, I'm turning into a right fat [email protected] and notice my tummy starting to bulge over my lifting belt a little so there's no problem with food. :lol: Clean food too, no junk and roughly 160-180g protein a day.

Rest... I have a sedentary office job so it's not like I burn myself out during the day.

Sleep... not great recently, last few nights have been a broken with work stress.

I've also recently started to go to the gym on Tuesdays and Thursdays to do core work and cardio and it's really killing me - I don't feel recovered or rested any more as I train Mon - Wed - Fri.

Also, going for either a PB squat or PB dead lift every session alternating each visit is also adding up.

Plus I'm natty and 39 years old, so whilst far from old, I'm not 21 either.

If I had to put a finger on it, I'd say the added cardio/core work in between days is the biggest factor, and recent broken sleep hasn't helped.

The thing I really noticed tonight was the hip pain and lower back soreness which I think would normally have recovered from the previous DL session, but because I did a load of cross trainer work and good mornings last night, I didn't get chance to recover so everything was still tired and sore, despite warm ups.

PB dead lifts is taking it out of me, I'll admit - but.... I absolutely love them and the feeling / results they bring. Nothing has added as much density to my frame as heavy dead lifting in all my years on and off training.

All my lifts have been max weight low rep stuff for 9 months now, each session balls to the wall - I think that other than my dead lifts, so lower weight higher rep stuff not going to failure might be a nice change?


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## Fissure

The Sweeney said:


> It's official - I suck donkey balls.
> 
> Actually, if I did suck donkey balls, at least the donkey would be getting something out of it, where tonight, nobody got anything out of anything. Especially not me.
> 
> Just had the poorest session I think I've ever had.
> 
> Went through my squat routine warm up as usual, but all the way through things didn't feel right.
> 
> I didn't have the tightness in my core and I could feel my upper back wanting to collapse onto my knees, even under light weight.
> 
> My hips were hurting all the way through the ROM as they were still sore from Mondays PB dead lift.
> 
> I got to my 100kg work set and had to rack it after the 1st rep which I only just managed to grind out.
> 
> I gave it a minute, recomposed, deep breaths, reset everything, gritted my teeth and tried again - 1 rep by the ugliest skin of my teeth.
> 
> I just didn't have the energy, fight or power in me tonight so racked up and did the rest of my routine.
> 
> For the last three weeks I've just managed to get 100 x 5 with iffy form so I decided to stick at the weight until my form was better before progressing, but tonight was a step back for sure.
> 
> I guess some days you get to be the windscreen, other days only get to be the fly.


Don't get yourself down!

I had a horrible Monday session also, so I know how it goes.

Like @scot-ish said, deload would be worth it.

I've deloaded a few times on the squat already and every

Time it has increased my weight up 15kg plus each time.

Maybe taking a break from it for a week to help aid recovery would be worth it? Also helps the mental side of lifting I found when I had a week off.


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## Fissure

@The Sweeney

160g-180g of protein at your weight and height seems low to me I think.

Would be adding more to your diet if I was you.

I found eating high amounts of protein has helped with my

Recovery a lot.

I'm way over eating with mine (400-450g a day)...

Before people say its to much, I'm a butcher so I'm eating beef most of the day between work!


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## The Sweeney

Fissure said:


> @The Sweeney
> 
> 160g-180g of protein at your weight and height seems low to me I think.
> 
> Would be adding more to your diet if I was you.
> 
> I found eating high amounts of protein has helped with my
> 
> Recovery a lot.
> 
> I'm way over eating with mine (400-450g a day)...
> 
> Before people say its to much, I'm a butcher so I'm eating beef most of the day between work!


I'll struggle to get any more down me to be fair without getting even fatter - I'm already eating a little too much.

I normally have two scoops in the morning, two scoops after training, a couple of fish fillets or chicken breasts or 4 eggs in the day, then a meaty/fishy dinner at night.

More you say?


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## ImmortalTech

They say eat about 1g per pound of (lean - to a degree) bodyweight mate. I weigh about 180lbs and set my macro at 200g of protein per day. That's definitely a factor in your performance at 100kg.

I don't count protein macros from oils and otherwise low amounts from different nutrient sources (like the protein in oats). Same with fruit, but not counting the carbs (while not cycling/keto).

It's a good idea to eat in a surplus but not so much as to cause glucogenesis.

Deload 10% and work up from there

Focus on hitting your macro count every day

Don't sweat the cardio, your CNS shouldn't be affected from cardio - the oposite really as it helps capilarisation and imprved blood flow, so you recover quicker and more efficiently

:thumbup1:


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## SickCurrent

Fissure said:


> I'm a butcher so I'm eating beef most of the day between work!


Your eating raw beef all day bro?

Hardcore


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> They say eat about 1g per pound of (lean - to a degree) bodyweight mate. I weigh about 180lbs and set my macro at 200g of protein per day. That's definitely a factor in your performance at 100kg.
> 
> I don't count protein macros from oils and otherwise low amounts from different nutrient sources (like the protein in oats). Same with fruit, but not counting the carbs (while not cycling/keto).
> 
> It's a good idea to eat in a surplus but not so much as to cause glucogenesis.
> 
> Deload 10% and work up from there
> 
> Focus on hitting your macro count every day
> 
> Don't sweat the cardio, your CNS shouldn't be affected from cardio - the oposite really as it helps capilarisation and imprved blood flow, so you recover quicker and more efficiently
> 
> :thumbup1:


Thanks for the tips.

If I'm already getting too fat and need to cut calories, yet need to increase my protein intake, the only thing I can cut is carbs.

This might be tricky, as whenever I don't have carbs during the day I feel I have no strength or energy for my training session at night (I can only train between 9-10pm), where if with my fish or chicken during the day I have some pasta or rice, or a jacket with my tuna, I feel so much more energetic that night.

Shall I just pop in another boiled egg at 10am and 2pm and maybe halve the amount of potato, rice or pasta so I'm at least getting some carbs other than my small bowl of cereal in the morning.

Todays intake which is typical looks like this:

7am: Bowl of whole wheat cereal, fully skimmed milk, 2 scoops MP impact whey, cod liver oil, multi vit, glucosamine sulphate, 5mg creatine mono

Lunch: 2 chicken breasts on a bed of brown rice

Dinner: Spaghetti meatballs - full pack of 16 meatballs, low fat lean beef. (or similar meat two veg)

After training 2 scoops MP impact whey

I drink a lot of tea during the day so there's probably not far off a pint of semi skim in there, too.

I'm getting fat on that ^^

What I will say is that I'm dragging myself out of bed, and moping round like I'm recovering from major surgery every day like my body is thoroughly destroyed. Adding the cardio is making it worse. I feel I just need to sleep for a month and not move a muscle.


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## ohh_danielson

I expected to see more pics in this thread lol. Mind you I'm not surprised people are holding off after kristinas pics lol!! Damn!

I haven't done 5x5 in about a year or so now. I did find it great for strength gains but u didn't really feel like I was developing the muscle as much as using slightly lower weight and higher reps (8-12 reps) . But I will use 5x5 again when I feel like I need to up my strength.


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## ImmortalTech

@The Sweeney

Mate that looks seriously under maintenance for 100kg bodyweight.

Here's an example of me (around 80kg bodyweight) daily intake:

09:00 500ml water, supps, pear, banana, 1 egg, 200g burgers, lettuce, tea *40/15/25*

13:30 500ml water, 200g chicken, spices, 2 wraps, spinach, tea *40/45/10*

17:30 500ml water, 2 scoops in 500ml, 50g peanut butter *75/30/72.5*

20:00 500ml water, steak, veg, potatoes, tea *30/20/20*

12:00 500ml water, chicken burger, crisps *20/20/10*

*TOTAL MACROS: 205/130/137.5 = 2577cals* that's protein / carbs / fats

I eat a lot of fats because it's important as a natty as testosterone is derived from fats. Also, carbs bloat my out and make me lose appetite - so I need to source my calories elsewhere and best not to consume too much protein to avoid GCG.

Analyse your diet mate. Try only eating carbs in and around training times if you feel they give you more energy, but most of all, count your macros and hit your target every day :thumbup1:


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## ImmortalTech

Currently eating breakfast (nice lie in)...200g seasoned chicken (paprika, tumeric, chili powder) with a banana, orange and 30g oats with ground cinnamon + raisins added to it.

40g protein

30g carbs

5g fat

Will make a cup of tea and have a nice tom tit in a min.


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> @The Sweeney
> 
> Mate that looks seriously under maintenance for 100kg bodyweight.
> 
> Here's an example of me (around 80kg bodyweight) daily intake:
> 
> 09:00 500ml water, supps, pear, banana, 1 egg, 200g burgers, lettuce, tea *40/15/25*
> 
> 13:30 500ml water, 200g chicken, spices, 2 wraps, spinach, tea *40/45/10*
> 
> 17:30 500ml water, 2 scoops in 500ml, 50g peanut butter *75/30/72.5*
> 
> 20:00 500ml water, steak, veg, potatoes, tea *30/20/20*
> 
> 12:00 500ml water, chicken burger, crisps *20/20/10*
> 
> *TOTAL MACROS: 205/130/137.5 = 2577cals* that's protein / carbs / fats
> 
> I eat a lot of fats because it's important as a natty as testosterone is derived from fats. Also, carbs bloat my out and make me lose appetite - so I need to source my calories elsewhere and best not to consume too much protein to avoid GCG.
> 
> Analyse your diet mate. Try only eating carbs in and around training times if you feel they give you more energy, but most of all, count your macros and hit your target every day :thumbup1:


I can only go by the fact that my belt is getting tighter, my love handles getting bigger and my rolls of fat showing more and more over my lifting belt.

Seriously, that's what I eat and I'm getting fatter every week. No cheating, no sweets, crisps, cakes, chocolate, fizzy drinks, pastry, curry, Chinese - I'm good as gold.

How do I eat more protein and not put on as much fat which can only be through excess calories?

I'm really confused.


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## 1manarmy

im not claiming to be natural as I will cycle for prep only but I train my entire offseason natural with no useage. I was doing low volume heavy sets for around 5 months and changed a fair whack before this prep


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> I can only go by the fact that my belt is getting tighter, my love handles getting bigger and my rolls of fat showing more and more over my lifting belt.
> 
> Seriously, that's what I eat and I'm getting fatter every week. No cheating, no sweets, crisps, cakes, chocolate, fizzy drinks, pastry, curry, Chinese - I'm good as gold.
> 
> How do I eat more protein and not put on as much fat which can only be through excess calories?
> 
> I'm really confused.


First of all, protein is hard to turn into bodyfat unlike carbs (super easy if unused, office job?) and fats. Don't worry about excess protein being stored.

Have you calculated your daily maintenance calories yet?

Broke it down into macro nutrients?

You need to.

Do that, it doesn't have to be perfect...in fact it's almost certainly going to be off, but that's how we do it, through trial and error.

Set out a diet and meal plan and follow it for a number of weeks.

Too much? cut back 500cals spread out.

Still not progressing? add another 500cals spread out.

...Ultimately, gaining/losing weight is all about calories consumed vs calories used, but it's not that simple when you break it down. Carbs can be quickly stored rather than used as energy if you don't need a faster release of energy (like intra-workout carbs) or the workload is really easy. Fats are used mainly for those easier tasks, not muscle glycogen which comes from carbs.

Also don't forget under eating can cause weight gain.


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> First of all, protein is hard to turn into bodyfat unlike carbs (super easy if unused, office job?) and fats. Don't worry about excess protein being stored.
> 
> Have you calculated your daily maintenance calories yet?
> 
> Broke it down into macro nutrients?
> 
> You need to.
> 
> Do that, it doesn't have to be perfect...in fact it's almost certainly going to be off, but that's how we do it, through trial and error.
> 
> Set out a diet and meal plan and follow it for a number of weeks.
> 
> Too much? cut back 500cals spread out.
> 
> Still not progressing? add another 500cals spread out.
> 
> ...Ultimately, gaining/losing weight is all about calories consumed vs calories used, but it's not that simple when you break it down. Carbs can be quickly stored rather than used as energy if you don't need a faster release of energy (like intra-workout carbs) or the workload is really easy. Fats are used mainly for those easier tasks, not muscle glycogen which comes from carbs.


Yes, I sit on my ass 10 hours a day and my short, tight hams and hip flexors hate me for it... as well as my terrible posture... :lol:

Can you point me in the direction of how to work out my cals / macro requirements? I'm a bit rubbish at this and don't know where to start.


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> Yes, I sit on my ass 10 hours a day and my short, tight hams and hip flexors hate me for it... as well as my terrible posture... :lol:
> 
> Can you point me in the direction of how to work out my cals / macro requirements? I'm a bit rubbish at this and don't know where to start.


Stickied posts in the diet & nutrition section on UK-M is a good starting point, you've got a lot of reading to do lol.

Don't be afraid to ask questions about anything you don't understand. It takes time.

Bare in mind everyone is different and we require different amounts of food, water etc. It's not a 'one size fits all' which is why we use trial and error to find out what works for us as individuals


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## Fissure

Currently 6 months into training and 5x5 workout.

Loving training and can't wait to get more experience behind me to push myself further!

So far:

View attachment 167290


View attachment 167291


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## The Sweeney

Fissure said:


> Currently 6 months into training and 5x5 workout.
> 
> Loving training and can't wait to get more experience behind me to push myself further!
> 
> So far:
> 
> View attachment 167290
> 
> 
> View attachment 167291


That is an AMAZING result for only 6 months training!!! Utterly amazing - unless you were already muscular to start with?

This is me after 9 months of Starting Strength 3 x 5 from a skinny fat beginning.


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> Stickied posts in the diet & nutrition section on UK-M is a good starting point, you've got a lot of reading to do lol.
> 
> Don't be afraid to ask questions about anything you don't understand. It takes time.
> 
> Bare in mind everyone is different and we require different amounts of food, water etc. It's not a 'one size fits all' which is why we use trial and error to find out what works for us as individuals


I'll have a look and report back, thanks.


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> I'll have a look and report back, thanks.


My pleasure mate! Happy to help

Gains are there to be made


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> My pleasure mate! Happy to help
> 
> Gains are there to be made


See what I mean though about not wanting to gain any more weight ^^ and that's from just eating what I mentioned earlier... 

Off to count some numbers, now..


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> See what I mean though about not wanting to gain any more weight ^^ and that's from just eating what I mentioned earlier...
> 
> Off to count some numbers, now..


To be honest, no lol. You're not holding a lot of fat at all mate.

Don't worry about it. Focus on getting the ball rolling with progression and everything will come into place.

If you really are worried that you're fat start doing some cardio and metabolic conditioning while carb cycling. Fat will melt off you.


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> My pleasure mate! Happy to help
> 
> Gains are there to be made


Right then...

BMR = 2136

Activity multiplier x 1.55 (Moderately active)

Total calorie for maintenance - TDEE = 3,310


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> To be honest, no lol. You're not holding a lot of fat at all mate.
> 
> Don't worry about it. Focus on getting the ball rolling with progression and everything will come into place.
> 
> If you really are worried that you're fat start doing some cardio and metabolic conditioning while carb cycling. Fat will melt off you.


In answer to the other questions...

I'm 39, work behind a desk, lifted for a few years in my 20's trying every possible routine and making every possible mistake.

Kids and mortgage saw 15 years out and a return to skinny fat.

Been lifting on SS 3x5 since August and done the progression thing until either plateau or injury halted progress.

Current numbers are

DL 167.5

Squat 100

Bench 95

OHP 52

Row 70

The constant heavy maxing out every exercise, every set, every session at max weight is burning me out, hence I'm looking to switch it up to a hypertrophy routine for a while to pack on some size to the modest foundation I've built so far.


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> Right then...
> 
> BMR = 2136
> 
> Activity multiplier x 1.55 (Moderately active)
> 
> Total calorie for maintenance - TDEE = 3,310


Do you have a rough idea of what you've been eating the last 30+ days?

It's VERY important in the interest if not putting on extra flubber to increase your calories gradually. So say you've been eating 2400, and you calculated 3300, you would up it by 100~ cals daily until at the right amount.

How tall are you again?

Do those cals scream a lot to you?


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## ImmortalTech

Mate your mental approach to training is crucial as well. READ over Mark Rippetoes Starting Strength again and again, look up his instructional videos on youtube.

He tells you to do 5 reps, yes, but at your 6 rep max. So you KNOW "I can get 3 sets, 6 reps of this definitely" but you STOP at 5 reps.

This is for the sake of linear progression, and not to burn yourself out, which you've just told me you do. I never burn myself out...even if the form is 98% (because the weights slightly too heavy for example) I will take 5kg off it and complete the set. Best not to overstimulate the CNS and end up having to take a week or two out, or worse..

@The Sweeney


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> Do you have a rough idea of what you've been eating the last 30+ days?
> 
> It's VERY important in the interest if not putting on extra flubber to increase your calories gradually. So say you've been eating 2400, and you calculated 3300, you would up it by 100~ cals daily until at the right amount.
> 
> How tall are you again?
> 
> Do those cals scream a lot to you?


I'm 6'4"

What I can tell you is that 9 months ago I was a 34" waist. I'm now a 38" waist and not happy about it. I can see and feel a belly bulge I never used to have.

I'll work out exactly what I've eaten today for example and report back...


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> Mate your mental approach to training is crucial as well. READ over Mark Rippetoes Starting Strength again and again, look up his instructional videos on youtube.
> 
> He tells you to do 5 reps, yes, but at your 6 rep max. So you KNOW "I can get 3 sets, 6 reps of this definitely" but you STOP at 5 reps.
> 
> This is for the sake of linear progression, and not to burn yourself out, which you've just told me you do. I never burn myself out...even if the form is 98% (because the weights slightly too heavy for example) I will take 5kg off it and complete the set. Best not to overstimulate the CNS and end up having to take a week or two out, or worse..
> 
> @The Sweeney


I will, but the idea of SS to me was to add 2.5kg to the bar each session until you stall, which to me suggests, sooner or later, you will reach your max which I've done. I then deloaded, and ramped up again to the max - the program is always pushing you to increase the weight so ultimately I'm always pushing myself to lift more - hence maxing out all the time. I've stalled at 100kg on the squat now and have been stuck at this weight for the 3rd session in a row, with my last session only making 2 reps with a 30 second rest between them as it just felt unbelievable, unmanageably heavy - heavier than before, hence no progress, even regression and a feeling for two days after of walking round utterly fatigued and wasted.

I feel I want to refresh myself with a hypertrophy program for a while. I'm also getting a rather large imbalance between the pecs/front delts and my rear delts and RCs causeing shoulder injury on the bench at max weight as I can't control the femural head under the max load causing impingement issues (according to my physio). No amount of scapula retraction is helping so I need to strengthen my rear side and add some mass to my shoulders in general as they're a weak spot, where as my lats and pecs seem to almost grow themselves.


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## ImmortalTech

The Sweeney said:


> *I'll work out exactly what I've eaten today for example and report back..*.


That's usually what I tell people to do for 7 days before giving them nutritional advice as often people under eat and once they realise this they up the cals by crazy amounts overnight and put on fat easy. Literally everything that goes down your throat, most are surprised.

Bare in mind that a 4" increase in your waist didn't happen overnight, it isn't something that can be fixed overnight.

Keep reading those stickied posts in the diet section bud. Over and over until it rolls off your tongue.

I can draw up a simple meal plan for you once you've got your diet sorted if you want. Not anything too detailed or professional I don't claim to be a nutritionist or anything although I am a qualified gym instructor.

Retiring for the night now, time for a nice joint.


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## The Sweeney

ImmortalTech said:


> That's usually what I tell people to do for 7 days before giving them nutritional advice as often people under eat and once they realise this they up the cals by crazy amounts overnight and put on fat easy. Literally everything that goes down your throat, most are surprised.
> 
> Bare in mind that a 4" increase in your waist didn't happen overnight, it isn't something that can be fixed overnight.
> 
> Keep reading those stickied posts in the diet section bud. Over and over until it rolls off your tongue.
> 
> I can draw up a simple meal plan for you once you've got your diet sorted if you want. Not anything too detailed or professional I don't claim to be a nutritionist or anything although I am a qualified gym instructor.
> 
> Retiring for the night now, time for a nice joint.


Thanks for taking the time and effort to answer my questions and help with this - appreciated.

I'm a creature of habit, and other than my lunch in work which will sometimes be 3 boiled eggs, or sometimes be chicken/fish on rice, the rest is pretty samey and won't vary much at all.

Yesterday went like this....

Cereal Cal200	P7 C33	F4

Cereal milk	Cal140	P11 c17	F4

2 Scoops Cal208	P42	C3	F4

3 boiled eggs	195	P17	C0	F13

2 pork chops	Cal240	P26	C0	F14

mash Cal200	P4	C27	F8

peas Cal70 P4	C12	F0

banana Cal90 P1	C23	F0

pear Cal75 P1	C18	F0

2 scoops Cal208	P42	C3	F4

2 scoops Cal208	P42	C3	F4

13 x Tea - sugar	Cal200	P0	C60	F0

13 x Tea - milk	Cal500	P33	C47	F20

Totals 2536 P230	C246	F75

Proein = 42%

Carbs = 44%

Fat = 14%

On a day where I'll have chicken/fish over a small bed of rice instead of 3 boiled eggs, the cals might go up 100-150, but the proportions stay about the same.

So, that has been pretty much my diet or very similar variants of it for the last 9 months.

In theory, I should now be very under weight as my maintenance is approx 3300, yet my intake is say approx 2650 average, so 650 below maintenance.

That doesn't stack up with a 34" to a 38" waist.

Would it be fair to say the balance of protein, carbs and fat isn't way off the mark?

So, I'm steadily adding fat to my body, little by little, yet the figures suggest I should be loosing fat at a steady rate.

Where's the anomaly?


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## supersonicphil

Does everyone do the starting strength 5x5 or does anyone do madcow? I find the ss 5x5 is too hard to recover from


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## superdrol

Starting strength is a beginners routine = stronglifts 5x5... Madcow is an intermediate lifting routine that's designed to follow on from stronglifts 5x5... If starting strength is getting to overload point swap to Madcow... I have just done it from stronglifts 5x5 and did my ohp pb yesterday... And it's my weakest lift...

in stronglifts it ends up with way less worksets than 5x5, 3x5, 3x3 then 1x3 after eight deloads... However I did find I hit a wall around 105kg so I switched to Madcow...


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## Rpatz

In 6 months of doing 5x5 as a beginner, I was close to bar weight start on most, squat 110 (pulled my quad and slowly worked back to this weight) bench 80, rows 80, dl 130 ( quad didn't help here either) ohp 60.

These were working set weights, haven't redone 1rms, nd have recently switched to a ppl routine with 3x5s and isos.


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