# High bar vs low bar



## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

Just had a session with a PT to check my form before getting back into lifting after a couple of years off due to injury.

I was first taught years ago in a 'low bar' elbows back style, whereas the guy I saw used an elbows under style - more an Oly lift style?

Despite it being such a minor change, it felt quite different. Not wrong, just like it would need some getting used to.

However until my shoulder injury healed, the low bar position caused a niggling pain when trying to get elbows back and shoulders into a 'shelf' so this might be a better form for me. I'd forgotten all about high bar to be honest.

What style do you guys use?

Edit: Please move to form and technique if needed, did not see that sub-forum


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## ATMeredith (May 21, 2013)

Till recently I was using high bar but as weight got heavy I found it tiring on my quads. Iv now moved to low bar and it feels a lot more powerful out of the hole. But to be honest my elbows do ache the day after :thumbdown: I guess the body has to get used to a different style.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

High bar and elbows forward is the best way to maintain good form imo. As soon as your elbows go back the body leans forward and puts all the stress on the lower back.


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

ATMeredith said:


> Till recently I was using high bar but as weight got heavy I found it tiring on my quads. Iv now moved to low bar and it feels a lot more powerful out of the hole. But to be honest my elbows do ache the day after :thumbdown: I guess the body has to get used to a different style.


You got that bit about power right. It's quite a humbling change going from low to high. I'm not going to say what my max HB squat was but it was feeble! 



Mingster said:


> High bar and elbows forward is the best way to maintain good form imo. As soon as your elbows go back the body leans forward and puts all the stress on the lower back.


Thanks for that, staying injury free is my priority for sure. 2 years off training and nearly a grand in treatment isn't something I can repeat!


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

what exercise are you guys on about? Squats? and whats the difference in 'high and low' bars?


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

Back squats. It just relates to where the bar sits on your back, and where your elbows are positioned.

It sounds like nothing but it changes the whole exercise


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## barnz (Mar 25, 2014)

Mingster said:


> High bar and elbows forward is the best way to maintain good form imo. As soon as your elbows go back the body leans forward and puts all the stress on the lower back.


Same could be said of deadlifts putting all the station on the lower back.

You are supposed to lean forwards more on low bar to keep the bar over your centre of gravity. As long as you keep your core tight and pressurised using the valsalva technique then all is good and the weight isn't on your lower back.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

barnz said:


> Same could be said of deadlifts putting all the station on the lower back.
> 
> You are supposed to lean forwards more on low bar to keep the bar over your centre of gravity. As long as you keep your core tight and pressurised using the valsalva technique then all is good and the weight isn't on your lower back.


Indeed? But, as I said, in answer to the OP, imo this isn't the best way to lift. Nor is it the technique I use, even though I am a powerlifter.


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## barnz (Mar 25, 2014)

Mingster said:


> Indeed? But, as I said, in answer to the OP, imo this isn't the best way to lift. Nor is it the technique I use, even though I am a powerlifter.


Surely as a powerlifter you should be using the technique that allows you to shift the most weight which is imo undisputedly the low bar as it shortens the rom and brings the glutes and hamstrings more into the lift rather than being quad dominant the more upright you are.

Personally I think low bar is far safer than high bar as the bar is not resting right against the spine, rather it is protected by the shoulder blades.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

barnz said:


> Surely as a powerlifter you should be using the technique that allows you to shift the most weight which is imo undisputedly the low bar as it shortens the rom and brings the glutes and hamstrings more into the lift rather than being quad dominant the more upright you are.
> 
> Personally I think low bar is far safer than high bar as the bar is not resting right against the spine, rather it is protected by the shoulder blades.


Exactly. IME I could always shift the most weight with the, admittedly unconventional to powerlifting, style. This is probably down to the fact that I started off as an Olympic lifter. My style is a little hybrid in reality as I have a wider stance and drive my hips through early, so involving the hips and glutes to a greater extent than traditional Olympic lifting. Squatting has always been my favoured lift and this style has always proved very successful, and injury free, to me.

It's a personal thing. I've experimented with the low bar many times over the years but it always turns the lift into a form of good morning whenever I approach my limit lifts.


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## barnz (Mar 25, 2014)

Mingster said:


> Exactly. IME I could always shift the most weight with the, admittedly unconventional to powerlifting, style. This is probably down to the fact that I started off as an Olympic lifter. My style is a little hybrid in reality as I have a wider stance and drive my hips through early, so involving the hips and glutes to a greater extent than traditional Olympic lifting. Squatting has always been my favoured lift and this style has always proved very successful, and injury free, to me.
> 
> It's a personal thing. I've experimented with the low bar many times over the years but it always turns the lift into a form of good morning whenever I approach my limit lifts.


On the heavy end of the lift, the butt moving first is what helps you get out of the hole, just as long as you don't take it too far and gm it obviously.

I do think that all newbie lifters should start with the low bar and try and perfect their form on it, and only if they have major issues should they go higher bar. Once you have the form down for the low bar, then play about with high bar and front squats.


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## scott08 (Feb 14, 2014)

i personally squat high bar with a medium stance, toes pointed very slightly outwards, pretty much a hybrid squat style. since i dont do any isolation exercises for my legs, doing high bar would lead to imbalances, and wouldn't be great for aesthetics (although i dont primarily train for physique). low bar (done the conventional style with a medium- wide stance) involves more hip and posterior chain, and puts more torque on the lower back. high bar involves a bit more quad to help stay upright and there is less stress on the lower back. for general strength purposes and even for strength sports i would go with a high bar squat. you will see a lot of powerlifters who train using a high bar squat then either compete with a high bar squat, or a few weeks before a meet just switch to low bar as the strength is transferable (not necessarily the case with the other way round though).

for any goal that isnt powerlifting a high bar squat (not olympic though) would be superior. Even then, for most raw and natural powerlifters, high bar is superior in training. when weights get pretty heavy i've noticed most who squat with a low bar conventional style can't squat as often, as there is a similar emphasis on the muscles as the heavy deadlifts they are doing.


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks mate. So HB gives the best bang-per-buck for training, but LB would help shift the most weight in a contest? That won't be an issue for a year or two now...!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

At one point I used both variations of squat and treated them as different exercises.

I'd start with low bar and a fairly typical PL style squat for three sets going just below parallel then would switch to high bar oly style and drop fully ATG for another three sets. I'd focus on my posterior chain in the first three sets and then on quads for the latter three sets

The load would have to be dropped by 20-25% when switching from PL to oly style. That was a lot of fun thinking about, and certainly worked my legs very hard.


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## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

Subbed for the morning to learn more about high and low bars, and where elbows should be.


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## scott08 (Feb 14, 2014)

chronyx said:


> Thanks mate. So HB gives the best bang-per-buck for training, but LB would help shift the most weight in a contest? That won't be an issue for a year or two now...!


pretty much yeah. for overall development high bar is your best bet, as well is it giving you better leg development and possibly a lower chance of injury.

for powerlifting though, as mingster has said, not everyone moves more weight with low bar. it depends on how you have trained the squat, your leverages, stengths etc. for most though low bar will let you shift more weight. if you want to get into competing what i see alot of lifters do is train year round with high bar and build up a strength base, then do the meet prep switching to low bar. e.g. train using a high bar squat (stance optional, but hybrid would likely let you shift more weight), then 4-6 weeks before the meet switch to low bar. if you find you are not very good at low bar then obviously this isnt for you so you can continue high bar up to the meet.

look up jonnie candito's channel on youtube, he has some good videos on squat technique and the difference between squatting styles.


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks very much Scott


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## Getlean007 (Jun 4, 2014)

Awesome OP, congrats


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks man 

Did my first training session in years today. I'm using the 5/3/1 program so did 3x5 at 50, 57.7, and 65.

Damn, 57.5 used to be my (low bar) 20 rep squat weight!

Oh well, onwards and upwards, and somehow still got 130kg deadlift max


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

This switch over is really kicking my ****. I am really struggling to make it feel as natural as low bar.

Just wondered if anyone could clarify some points for me:

Feet - shoulder width and pointed only slightly out?

Grip - just outside shoulders?

Arms - do they need to be as far forward/under the bar as I can get them? Hard to resist urge to 'build a shelf' like with low bar.

Wrists - straight? not easy

Break at hips and knees but without exaggerating the hip like with a low bar squat?

Is the idea to have as little forward lean as possible, or just not as much as a low bar squat?

Does high bar require better flexibility than low bar?

Thanks all


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

i've recently switched back to highbar, i think my posterior chain is lot stronger than my quads so i'm try to balance things


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

How are you finding the change over bud?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

chronyx said:


> How are you finding the change over bud?


Tough on the ego, but it feels right. Definitely can feel my quads getting him more.

I'll stick with it until i struggle then swap back. i'm also doing front squats too.


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## Mockett (Jun 26, 2012)

its very goal dependent

high bar allows for more a greater range of motion so for oly lifters it is preferred as it crosses over into the sport. its also used by bodybuilders who want to build more mass, because of the greater ROM there is more time under tension ect ect

however if your goal is have the heaviest squat I.E. a powerlifter than go for lowbar (even tho alot of powerlifters like dan green/ candito train high bar and only compete with lowbar)


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

High bar to hit the quads. Granted my goals were different to yours but even if you do switch to a wider stance later, bigger quads will still benefit your squat. For now I suggest letting the shoulder heal and then switch back to build those quads.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Mockett said:


> its very goal dependent
> 
> high bar allows for more a greater range of motion so for oly lifters it is preferred as it crosses over into the sport. its also used by bodybuilders who want to build more mass, because of the greater ROM there is more time under tension ect ect
> 
> however if your goal is have the heaviest squat I.E. a powerlifter than go for lowbar (even tho alot of powerlifters like dan green/ candito train high bar and only compete with lowbar)


Totally agree with this. High bar squatting will complement your low bar squat.


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

Epic bump! High bar for me all the way


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## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

High bar when I do them

Prefer Front Squats personally


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Low bar for me.

Started training with high bar but felt more natural (for me) to go low bar, although shoulder mobility issues does cause me shoulder pain in the low bar position which is slowly improving as the months pass.


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

If low bar allows you to lift more weight -and your goals are strength related, then you should use low bar, perfect your technique and build you're strength. If you're worried about quad development, thats what accessory work is for. think of it as doing bench press first followed by some close grip benching


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