# Help with a keto diet/log



## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

Hello everyone

I've been following UKM for a long time, and I finally decided to make my first post.

Since its summer I've decided to go for a keto diet, but it seems stupidly complicated. Ive read Dan's book on keto but the pdf is poor and its hard to take in when its not in front of you on paper.

I just have a few questions, and hopefully when I get it all started this can turn into a log like many people have done.

As a background, im 222lbs (25%bf estimate), 21yo and I have been seriously training for about a year or so, and my weight loss has finally curbed in the last couple of weeks (from 18 st to now) so i think a keto diet would be perfect for me.

I train 5 days a week, with cardio 6 days a week (usually 45 mins recumbent bike post weights) but i have a few questions about a keto diet.

1. So far ive established keto is strictly no carbs, but does that include carbs from veg?

2. ive also read that in every meal you should eat more fat than protein, but how do you make up these vaules?

3. does anybody have any problems with a lack of fibre in the diet?

4. ive seen many people eat fruit on friday night PWO to kick them out of ketosis and begin the full carb up through saturday, but what sort of carbs should you be eating?

Im planning on running keto for about 6-8 weeks, with 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off EC stack.

im sorry if any of these questions have already been answered in previous threads, as i know people get sick of seeing the same old stuff, but I just cant get anymore out of the pdf i have.

Thank you for any help in advance

K


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

I think you're fcuked to be honest mate

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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

anyone also fancy giving me a quick guess on bf? the first 3 pics are recent and the last one is from a couple of years ago when i decided to start training


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

Anyone guess his bf?

I reckon maybe 25%

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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UL2OARC8

mate thats the keto bible... explains everything from carbing up to drugs for metabolism... read it and you'll lose loads of fat, properly..


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

cheers mate! the bodyopus thing I have is such poor quality, this looks great. ill give it a going over tonight.

Can anybody hazard a guess at my bf%? also, does anyone rate ketostix? some people say they are really good, but ive also read that unless you are diabetic they are useless

Thanks


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

synthasize said:


> I think you're fcuked to be honest mate
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


 For the record I wasn't being a cnut here, we're mates. This is the guy I posted about on Saturday and now he is a UKM recruit 

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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

you weren't being a CVnt there, but unfortunately you are one


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## Mighty Sparrow (Apr 10, 2011)

Dont worry about bf %, if you are loosing weight to look good, the mirror is all you need.


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

cheers mate. ill forget figures for a bit. Just been doing a bit of maths before kick starting it all properly, and using Bodyopus i should be looking at something like this:

maintenance 3024 cals

fat loss 2420 cals

bodyweight 222lbs

bf % 25%

bodyfat goal 10%

% loss 15%

bodyweight reduction 28 lbs

debit of 20%

15% from food restriction- 453.6 cals

5% from aerobics- 151.2 cals a day

projected fat loss 2lbs a week

number of weeks needed 14

thoughts?

k


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## Mighty Sparrow (Apr 10, 2011)

Exercise?


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

well accoring to bodyopus you should only do 3 days of weights a week, with the final day a full body workout. i feel its not enough, but so many people have had such success with this guy that i have to trust it to the letter. Quoting Bodyopus:

monday: abs, chest, shoulders, traps, triceps

tuesday- back, biceps, legs, calves

Friday- whole body workout

cardio- no more than 20mins a day starting on the tuesday-friday at 70% HR


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

Monday through Friday

*Food Fat Protein Carbs Calories*

4 fried eggs 16 24 4 280

TB EVOO 14 0 0 120

4 slices of bacon 12 8 0 120

1 TB flaxseed oil 14 0 0 120

2 can Tuna 1 50 0 220

3 TB mayonnaise 33 0 0 300

1 TB flaxseed 14 0 0 120

2 slice mild cheese 12.8 10.4 0 157

2tbs EVOO 28 0 0 220

Chicken breast w.2tbs mayo 27 24 0 344

100g Mince w.1tbs EVOO 25.8 20.8 0 319

Shake w. 1tbs EVOO 16.1 23.6 1.8 238

*Total: 214.7 160.8 5.8 2668*


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

above is an idea of my keto diet monday to friday, still working on the carb up on sat-sun, but does anyone have any thoughts on the keto phase? sorry its a bit messy


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

bodyopus approach works very well..

don't worry about ketostix- get a Blood Glucose Monitor. If you're under 5.6 for all meals, and having under 30g carbs, and 70% fat cals, you're guaranteed to be in keto.

Ketostix only measure unused ketones...


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

cheers ausbuilt. ive seen your advice on many posts and it always seems valuable. could you speculate any ideas on how my keto phase is looking? i know you are a fan of bodyopus.

Thanks


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

KRSOne said:


> above is an idea of my keto diet monday to friday, still working on the carb up on sat-sun, but does anyone have any thoughts on the keto phase? sorry its a bit messy


ditch the shake; has no place in the keto phase. If you must use it, make it micellar casein NOT whey, and add MCT.

General hint- work some MCT as your fat source... fastest conversion to ketones.

Also ditch the chicken breast- get chicken mince.. stiry fry it... breast is to low fat..

For the carb-up, do the first 24 hours of the carb up only- you won't smooth out at all... I use dan's recommendations for amount of simple carbs- so i use dextrose + 50g whey in a shake every 2hours.. with 2g creatine, and 10mg d-bol.... all every 2 hours during the carb-up...insane anabolic rebound..


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

amazing, thank you. so general consensus should be to replace the EVOO with an MCT such as coconut oil?

scrapped the shake, so im going to stick with 5 meals, maybe add some cheese in if weight loss is too fast.

haha, did you do the full 24 hours worth? even the 2 am 4 am and 6am shakes? if so reps man thats some serious decication! do you just smooth out sunday into another day of keto?

ive gone and ordered myself a blood glucose monitor, seems pretty nifty for 13 quid, but im not sure what i should be looking for. what figures should i be looking for before, during and after keto blood sugar wise? did you just have a full days worth of shakes with dextrose for the carb up, no 'food' sources of carbs? seems nice and simple if so!

cheers for the help bro


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

sorry ausbuilt, ive just found this post in a previous thread that answers my questions:

''1. make sure you ingest no more than 30g carbs per day.

2. make sure everymeal has more fat calories than protein calories- an easy way is the same amount of grams of each fat and protein in each meal.

3. test your blood glucose level- if after the meal your BG is over 5.6 you won't get into ketosis

4. after a few days (2-3) of high fats, carbs under 30g, you will be in ketosis- the whole period, your blood glucose (BG) level is under 5.6

5. when you choose to carb-up, he recommends a piece of fruit to get out of ketosis, and a whole body workout to use all the last bits of glycogen in your liver and muscles.

6. after the depeletion workout, you carb-up. Its every 2hours- with a set amount of protein, and a set amount of simple carbs per meal (liquid carbs are faster- so usually dextrose in a whey shake is the ideal "meal" for the early phase of the carb-up).

7. after your carb up, you go back to your keto meals for the week.''

have you had/seen many good results on this diet? the only thing i am concerned about is the amount of sleep i should be getting, as i have heard many people get glycogen and insulin spikes in their sleep which throws them out of ketosis...only to find blood glucose levels have peaked in the morning. any ideas how to avoid this, or am i hugely over complicating things here?

reps


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## TRUE MASS (Aug 3, 2011)

KRSOne ...what an absurd name


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

TRUE MASS said:


> KRSOne ...what an absurd name


lol truemass, KRStianWildenuh was taken so it was the next best thing


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

TRUE MASS said:


> KRSOne ...what an absurd name


X2

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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

KRSOne said:


> amazing, thank you. so general consensus should be to replace the EVOO with an MCT such as coconut oil?
> 
> scrapped the shake, so im going to stick with 5 meals, maybe add some cheese in if weight loss is too fast.
> 
> ...


no i admit i took my last shake at 2am, went to bed, and then got up at 8am for the next, one- i do need some sleep! LOL but yes, I used the 1.5g of carbs per kg of lean body weight, using dextrose, and 50g of whey; I added 2g of creatine as well, and also took 10mg of d-bol with each shake- gives massive anabolic rebound.



KRSOne said:


> sorry ausbuilt, ive just found this post in a previous thread that answers my questions:
> 
> ''1. make sure you ingest no more than 30g carbs per day.
> 
> ...


yes, i've had good results on this style of diet, as have many others. sleep has no effect on keto; your body does not "spike" insulin- insulin is released in response to food- so depends on what you ate.. The body doesnt release insulin when no food is present (so getting kicked out of keto during sleep is not possible unless you chose a bad meal before bed...)

if your BG is high in the morning, you may have had some protein released (i.e muscle stripped down); but this would mean you're in gluconeogenesis, not ketogenesis; once in keto, you will always have low BG readings (under 5.6)


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> no i admit i took my last shake at 2am, went to bed, and then got up at 8am for the next, one- i do need some sleep! LOL but yes, I used the 1.5g of carbs per kg of lean body weight, using dextrose, and 50g of whey; I added 2g of creatine as well, and also took 10mg of d-bol with each shake- gives massive anabolic rebound.
> 
> yes, i've had good results on this style of diet, as have many others. sleep has no effect on keto; your body does not "spike" insulin- insulin is released in response to food- so depends on what you ate.. The body doesnt release insulin when no food is present (so getting kicked out of keto during sleep is not possible unless you chose a bad meal before bed...)
> 
> *if your BG is high in the morning, you may have had some protein released (i.e muscle stripped down)*; but this would mean you're in gluconeogenesis, not ketogenesis; once in keto, you will always have low BG readings (under 5.6)


Aus, could you explain the bit in bold a bit more please?

For me, no matter what I have as my last meal, my BG readings are always high first thing....I was under the impression that glucose is produced overnight by regulatory hormones (not protein being released)


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

tassotti, i think thats where I read about it, on your thread. According to Duchaine the blood glucose should look something like this:

normal glucose levels 80-120

ketosis begins at 50

monday waking blood glucose around 80mg/dl

tuesday blood glucose 50-60mg/dl

wed blood glucose 40mg/dl

thus same 40mg/dl

fri same but carb up before workout should set it up to around 60mg/dl

sat carb up 195mg/dl

But,

are there different types of reading, as 5.6 on that sorta scale would seem unlikely. The one i bought reads with one decimal point i think, eg 5.6, so is there any way for me to convert ducaines readings into my own? im assuming its just dividing his results by 10?

Cant wait to start this, gona be my first attempt at a serious keto diet. Tassotti, your threads have been so useful in getting me started with all of this too


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> Aus, could you explain the bit in bold a bit more please?
> 
> For me, no matter what I have as my last meal, my BG readings are always high first thing....I was under the impression that glucose is produced overnight by regulatory hormones (not protein being released)


well it can only be cortisol causing glucagon to be released, if not gluconeogenesis.. you could try 3g of vit C before bed (sugar free!!!) and take 500-1000mg of metformin before bed as well.



KRSOne said:


> tassotti, i think thats where I read about it, on your thread. According to Duchaine the blood glucose should look something like this:
> 
> normal glucose levels 80-120
> 
> ...


Duchaine used the US mg/dl readings, the 5.6 is based on the UK/Euro mmol/L readings

http://www.soc-bdr.org/rds/authors/unit_tables_conversions_and_genetic_dictionaries/e5184/index_en.html

there you go..

Gluconeogenesis begins when you're at fasted blood glucose levels (i.e 5.6) and if fats are higher than proteins, the body moves to ketogenesis.


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> well it can only be cortisol causing glucagon to be released, if not gluconeogenesis.. you could try 3g of vit C before bed (sugar free!!!) and take 500-1000mg of metformin before bed as well.
> 
> Duchaine used the US mg/dl readings, the 5.6 is based on the UK/Euro mmol/L readings
> 
> ...


cheers mate but im still a little confused. if ketosis occurs at 5.6 and below according to mmol/l, the relevant yield for mg/dl is 100, which is confusing because duchaine suggest that keto will start occuring at half that (50mg/dl or 2.7mmol/l and lower).

also, during keto, could blood glucose ever be *too* low? sorry if i am asking obvious questions, im still fairly new to the keto systems.

appreciated

k


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

KRSOne said:


> cheers mate but im still a little confused. if ketosis occurs at 5.6 and below according to mmol/l, the relevant yield for mg/dl is 100, which is confusing because duchaine suggest that keto will start occuring at half that (50mg/dl or 2.7mmol/l and lower).
> 
> also, during keto, could blood glucose ever be *too* low? sorry if i am asking obvious questions, im still fairly new to the keto systems.
> 
> ...


i rarely have met anyone who manages to get to 2.7mmol... at 4.0-4.3 which many people get to, after 4-5 days, you WILL register deep purple on ketostix. Dan was a pioneer- the first to put science behind his theories, and first introduced BBs to keto, and metformin, and T3 supplementation (and DNP) etc..

But he's made a few mistakes- namely, you don't need to be at 2.7 for keto; under 5.6 (but with with carbs >65%) will get you there..

Also he does a 48 hour re-comp- let me tell you nearly everyone i've trained has smoothed out doing the 48hour version- and he wrote himself that the 2nd 24 hours needed far less carbs.. and more care.. and was still experimental.

The fact is following his 24 hour version, makes everyone fill out, but NOT smooth over.. far better results.

yes you can get to low... but honestly without metformin, and if you carb up for 24 horus every 10-14 days, I dounbt you'll get under 3.0...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> But he's made a few mistakes- namely, you don't need to be at 2.7 for keto; under 5.6 (but with with carbs >65%) will get you there..


Think there may be a typo there Aus


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> well it can only be cortisol causing glucagon to be released, if not gluconeogenesis.. you could try 3g of vit C before bed (sugar free!!!) and take 500-1000mg of metformin before bed as well.


Haven't tried vit C, so might give that a go before taking metformin.


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

thanks for your help, really appreciate it. cant wait for saturday to arrive so I can get it all started. Not going to eat anything all saturday I dont think, just drink water all day to make sure by sunday I can start the journey into ketosis as quick as possible, without having to remove any excess sugars etc.

Should I start the log in this thread or create a new one? feel like im prepared enough now to begin


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

KRSOne said:


> thanks for your help, really appreciate it. cant wait for saturday to arrive so I can get it all started. Not going to eat anything all saturday I dont think, just drink water all day to make sure by sunday I can start the journey into ketosis as quick as possible, without having to remove any excess sugars etc.
> 
> Should I start the log in this thread or create a new one? feel like im prepared enough now to begin


Start a new one man, people will be interested in this. Give it a good name!

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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

think of a name for me cunny, im entrusting the success of a new thread with you


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

KRSOne said:


> think of a name for me cunny, im entrusting the success of a new thread with you


**** off think of one yourself!

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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

synthasize said:


> **** off think of one yourself!
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


haha..you're a cunning linguist


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

Tassotti said:


> haha..you're a cunning linguist


I am! Ask my girlfriend!

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