# Extreme Nutrition - T-Bullets



## BRENNAN_92

Hey People 

I have bought some T-Bullets today as I weigh 152 Lbs and I want to gain about 14 Lbs then get ripped. I want to know is their any major side effects? Do you have to work out everyday or is it ok to work out three times a week? And any other usefull info you have on T-Bullets.

Thanks,

BRENNAN_92


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## BRENNAN_92

I know alot about training but when it comes to supplements I haven't got a clue.

What is a PCT what does PCT stand for?

What is Gyno and Nolva?

I train

Monday = Legs

Wenesday = Chest and Back

Friday = Shoulders, arms and abs


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## benicillin

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I know alot about training but when it *comes to supplements I haven't got a clue*.
> 
> What is a PCT what does PCT stand for?
> 
> What is Gyno and Nolva?
> 
> I train
> 
> Monday = Legs
> 
> Wenesday = Chest and Back
> 
> Friday = Shoulders, arms and abs


Precisely, hence why i said i woudn't run them whilst you know nothing about supps, let alone prohormones


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## BRENNAN_92

So whats a PCT?


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## benicillin

Post Cycle Therapy.

http://www.fitnessuncovered.co.uk/post-cycle-therapy.php


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## BF200K

Why buy something without knowing what it is/does?

Your training split is **** so please do not say you know a lot about training.

Any form of endocrine damage/tampering at your age with your inexperience just to get to 11.5 stone is ridiculous. I hope you realise this before you go ahead blindly with the attitude

'none of these side effects will happen to me'

Get a refund or sell them on. I'm not against 18+ users as its all personal choice however I am against uneducated use which you are the poster boy of.

Use the search function in order to save mods/users time having to answer your millionth timed asked questions.

xx


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## benicillin

BF200K said:


> Why buy something without knowing what it is/does?
> 
> Your training split is shit so please do not say you know a lot about training.
> 
> *Any form of endocrine damage/tampering at your age with your inexperience just to get to 11.5 stone is ridiculous*. I hope you realise this before you go ahead blindly with the attitude
> 
> 'none of these side effects will happen to me'
> 
> Get a refund or sell them on. I'm not against 18+ users as its all personal choice however I am against uneducated use which you are the poster boy of.
> 
> Use the search function in order to save mods/users time having to answer your millionth timed asked questions.
> 
> xx


sorry this is not a dig, just wondering where it said his age?

But i do agree, prohormones may be able to be bought over the counter but they aren't to be taken lightly. get some knowledge under your belt first. at your weight you should be able to put on some good weight with a good diet and decent training


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## bigbob33

It's true your training split is pants mate.... Sorry


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## BRENNAN_92

I bought them because I have done amateur boxing for 5 from age 12 till 17. when I was 16 tho I started the gym at the same time. I never budged from 9 stone. Then I quit boxing concentrated on bodybuilding 1 year later im 11 stone but my gains have stopped.

Then when I was in the gym on Friday I got told about T-Bullets. I got told they give you great gains, Then ginge said "I been going to the gym for 4 month and this last month I been taking T-Bullets and gained a stone.

I did a lil bit of research but their was only 6 tubs left so I bought them today and just took 1 with me dinner.

Just need some guidance please.


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## BF200K

benicillin said:


> sorry this is not a dig, just wondering where it said his age?


Was just going by the username mate, might be completely wrong (apologise if so) however I can only assume by his routine/lack of knowledge that he may be young.


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## BRENNAN_92

And I got that training split from Vince Delmonte 

Been using it for 2 year and some random regimes some days


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## benicillin

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I bought them because I have done amateur boxing for 5 from age 12 till 17. when I was 16 tho I started the gym at the same time. I never budged from 9 stone. Then I quit boxing concentrated on bodybuilding 1 year later im 11 stone but my gains have stopped.
> 
> Then when I was in the gym on Friday I got told about T-Bullets. I got told they give you great gains, Then ginge said "I been going to the gym for 4 month and this last month I been taking T-Bullets and gained a stone.
> 
> I did a lil bit of research but their was only 6 tubs left so I bought them today and just took 1 with me dinner.
> 
> Just need some guidance please.


jesus christ dude, first off, i'd put them back in the cupboard and leave them alone as you clearly have no idea what you're chucking down your neck. second, i would put money on the fact that your diet is pap hence why you are not gaining.

Have a read of this forum an actually learn something.


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## BF200K

I go against pretty much all the garbage 'vince delmonte' has stated in his website.


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## BRENNAN_92

What is nolvadex and should I do this PCT when I come off T-Bullets?


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> What is nolvadex and should I do this PCT when I come off T-Bullets?


your on another planet mate !

your the type of guy we here about in the news that dies from not knowing what he is taking and not doing it right and ends up dieing or somthing bad happening and give the rest of us a bad name !

what makes you think that you need the pro hormones to gain muscle and weight ?

at your age / level a basic diet and basic lifting will get you results !

the fact that you think you need hormone supplementation at your age and experience level is extremely frustrating and sad !

STOP TAKING THEM RIGHT NOW and sell them mate ! seriously your not going to do any good for yourself and your just being impatient !

train hard and eat right and you wont need any sort of hormones !

your off your head for even buying them, they are a seriously strong and potentially dangerous (if you dont know what ur doing etc) supplement for people who are 21 and over with plenty of experience and knowledge under their belt ! you are a 17-18 year old that clearly doesnt have a clue ! sorry mate but please just dont take them !


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## najybomb

jesus christ boy, listen to people. you know nothing about training, doing the same routine and split for two years? nice one that, the body reacts to stimulus and adapts very quickly. eat some more food befor you eat that pro hormone sh1t


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## BRENNAN_92

I have 59 capsules to the gateway of heaven


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## najybomb

i call troll on this [email protected] clearly a windup .


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I have 59 capsules to the gateway of heaven


you think your going to turn into the incredible hulk after one cycle of t bullets ?

your a ****ing space cadet mate !

only things you will get is a slight strength increase, tiny bit more muscle, at the expess of your own natural testosterone production. You will just **** up your bodys natural hormone production and for what ? a tiny bit extra strength ? and thats saying ur diet and training is spot on which it is far from so you probably wont get any strength gains and will just **** your body up !

your a space cadet !


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## benicillin

ditto


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## Dazzaemm2k7

heres some proper advice for you boy =

1) sell the t-bullets

2) buy some proper food with the money (chicken breast, brown rice, steaks, eggs etc)

3) start training properly (compound movements, plenty of rest days)

4) start eating the right amounts of food for your body (proteins, carbs and fats)

5) listen to the guys on here as they have so much more experience and knowledge than you so you will learn a lot if you just listen

6) accept that you are a total novice and need many MANY more years of training under your belt before you do any of that **** !

7) take my advice as you seriously need it !


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## BRENNAN_92

Man ! This is my plan. I want to reach 175 Lbs 12.5 St by taking these T-Bullets. Then come off T-Bullets and lift light so I get real definition. Then concentrate on my MMA Cage Fighting, So MMA 4 times per week and gym 2 times a week to keep in shape. Then come down to 12 St 168 Lbs by losing all body fat.

Walla!!!

12 Stone 168 Lbs of ripped BRENNAN_92


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## benicillin

definite troll


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Man ! This is my plan. I want to reach 175 Lbs 12.5 St by taking these T-Bullets. Then come off T-Bullets and lift light so I get real definition. Then concentrate on my MMA Cage Fighting, So MMA 4 times per week and gym 2 times a week to keep in shape. Then come down to 12 St 168 Lbs by losing all body fat.
> 
> Walla!!!
> 
> 12 Stone 168 Lbs of ripped BRENNAN_92


get one of your family members to PM me the details of your funeral then


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## BF200K

Some people actually spend time at the computer creating useless threads in an attempt to mock serious responses.

sad man.


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> So MMA 4 times per week and gym 2 times a week *to keep in shape*.


man this guy has more knowledge than we thought :laugh::laugh::laugh:

so the 4 mma sessions per week wont keep you in shape ?

the weights twice a week is whats going to keep you in shape is it ? lol

complete and utter idiot !


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## BRENNAN_92

I deit well ! This was me today:

07:30 = Oats and Coffee

10:00 = Protien Shake

12:15 = 2x Fresh turkey salad sandwiches from bakers with salad cream

13:30 = Protien Shake

17:00 Thai green coconut curry with brown rice and chicken breast with T-Bullet

Now drinkin water, talking to u guys and thinking of walking to Sainsburys with the girlfriend to get some cake for carbs.


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## Der

:rockon:


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## Der

Oats and coffee? No protein for breakfast? fail.

Protein shake? No carbs in the morning, 2.5 hours after breakfast? Fail.

13.30 - no carbs in the afternoon? Fail.

17.00 last meal? Fail.

At least 2 more meals needed, one at 19.00 and one one hour before bed.

Your diet is flawed. Fail.

PS: I like being mean.


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## BRENNAN_92

I'm being serious !!!


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## lobo

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I deit well ! This was me today:
> 
> 07:30 = Oats and Coffee
> 
> 10:00 = Protien Shake
> 
> 12:15 = 2x Fresh turkey salad sandwiches from bakers with salad cream
> 
> 13:30 = Protien Shake
> 
> 17:00 Thai green coconut curry with brown rice and chicken breast with T-Bullet
> 
> Now don t you just get some weight gainer shake and do some squats ,deads twice a week and forget the PH?


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I'm being serious !!!


obveously not because several people have stated you are not ready for the t-bullets yet you stubbornly and disrespectfully still insist on taking them !

so therefore are a stuborn wee thoughtless **** that knows nothing and has no respect for older and WISER members !

once again , STOP TAKING THEM because you dont ****ing need them ! what part of that do you not understand ? training and dieting correctly will give you good gains so chuck the t-bullets !

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BRENNAN_92

I know but its hard for us ectomorphs!


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I know but its hard for us ectomorphs!


right definatelly a wind up merchant 

good one mate, you are hilarious and we are all laughing at how funny you are ! you have such a great life and i recomend taking the whole bottle of tbullets tonight before bed buddy  that should speed up the muscle gains !

also stacking it with pineapple chunks and cinnamon swirls will add 4inches onto your biceps 

good luck and remember to take the whole bottle of tbullets before bed please


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## benicillin

you know what? scrap my previous advice. Take all 59 remaining tabs tomorrow for breakfast and you'll put on that stone over the course of the day. Your diet looks perfect - you've obviously got some serious knowledge. Your training split looks spot on. Don't worry about that PCT nonsense.


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## Dazzaemm2k7

benicillin said:


> you know what? scrap my previous advice. Take all 59 remaining tabs tomorrow for breakfast and you'll put on that stone over the course of the day. Your diet looks perfect - you've obviously got some serious knowledge. Your training split looks spot on. Don't worry about that PCT nonsense.


  :laugh: :thumb:


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## BRENNAN_92

Man !!!

give me advice about training. What should my split be?


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## BRENNAN_92

I was going to go on a fully strict deit an take T-Bullets for 2 month but I am considering changing my mind.


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## benicillin

sure you were


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## BF200K

Time for beddy byes Brennan


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## BRENNAN_92

How old are you and what do you weigh?

I have just bought some USN Muscle Fuel Anabolic. Still unopened as I have just finished my other protein today. Will this help my gains?

And anything you can recommend me apart from T-Bullets?


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## benicillin

BRENNAN_92 said:


> How old are you and what do you weigh?
> 
> I have just bought some USN Muscle Fuel Anabolic. Still unopened as I have just finished my other protein today. Will this help my gains?
> 
> *Yes it will*
> 
> And anything you can recommend me apart from T-Bullets?
> 
> *Hard work*


.


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## BF200K

BRENNAN_92 said:


> How old are you and what do you weigh?


I'm 9 and weigh 95lbs


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## BRENNAN_92

I take my training very serious and put many hard hours in the gym. See my pic as a result.


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## rs007

Oxys are good

:lol:

Awesome thread, gave me a giggle, yous were all sucked in - especially you Dazz you loveable wee ponce you :lol:

Brennan_92 = REPPED :lol:


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## BRENNAN_92

BF200K said:


> I'm 9 and weigh 95lbs


Liar !!!


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## BRENNAN_92

rs007 said:


> Oxys are good
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Awesome thread, gave me a giggle, yous were all sucked in - especially you Dazz you loveable wee ponce you :lol:
> 
> Brennan_92 = REPPED :lol:


I am actually being serious tho. Everything I have said is gods honest truth.


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## benicillin

i'm using this thread to help my post count.


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## BRENNAN_92

benicillin said:


> i'm using this thread to help my post count.


Reported


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## benicillin

on a side note... have you tried cell tech?


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## BF200K

Brennan, only just noticed pic.

WOW you look amazing.


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## rs007

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I am actually being serious tho. Everything I have said is gods honest truth.


Serious?

Oxymetholone supositories are meant to be decent although some folks disagree and reckon you'd be as well shoving them up your arse for all the use they are.

I know how frustrated you must be tho. I mean I got it too when i cam on here at first. I was 11ish stone like you, and I just wanted some damn advice on how to take this "sus" I had been sold.

All I got was "PCT this" and "Gyno that"

WELL FVCK THAT SH!T

PCT never made anyone big so why would I be interested FFS????? Gyno? Pffttttt right, it's only gays that get that!!!! Usually from PCT funnily enough...

Done my own thing, now I'm sitting here, 3 years later, 12st plus, and def looking way hencher - dudes on here don't know sh1t


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## BRENNAN_92

BF200K said:


> Brennan, only just noticed pic.
> 
> WOW you look amazing.


Thanks dude I try my hardest


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## rs007

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Reported


I reported him too - just ignorant tbh, probably a racist and just down on you cos you are black


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## BF200K

Listen to RS.

Just think, you could be 12 whole stones in no time at all. all you need is a crap diet, little information and a strong sense of naivety.

Your half way there!


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## benicillin

lmfao, never cease to make me laugh rs


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## rs007

BF200K said:


> Listen to RS.
> 
> Just think, you could be 12 whole stones in no time at all. all you need is a crap diet, little information and a strong sense of naivety.
> 
> Your half way there!


Worked for me - and on top of how sh1t hot I look, you don't even want to know how much pusssayyyy I get, I'm like so all about the pusssayyyy it isn't even enjoyable anymore, I eat that sh1t for breakfast, lunch and dinner

Don't ever have sex with it though, never did get another boner after that sus


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## benicillin

rs007 said:


> Worked for me - and on top of how sh1t hot I look, you don't even want to know how much pusssayyyy I get, I'm like so all about the pusssayyyy it isn't even enjoyable anymore, I eat that sh1t for breakfast, lunch and dinner
> 
> Don't ever have sex with it though, never did get another boner after that sus


...do you live in jersey shore...?


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## BRENNAN_92

lmao rs


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## BF200K

Honestly Brennan, when your 12 stone, in that tight top, down 'that' pub in town that serves underage kids with your tight tshirt, being the envy of all your mates and the poster boy of all the girls you can say..

Thanks BF, Thanks RS

TBOMBS made me what I am today!


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## Lois_Lane

Pay me money and i will put 2 stone on you in 2 months and then get you ripped and it wont even be very hard.


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## BF200K

Don't take the advice above, as you can see from Cons avatar he has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of people on here just ignore him.


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## benicillin

Lois_Lane said:


> Pay me money and i will put 2 stone on you in 2 months and then get you ripped and it wont even be very hard.


if he declines... i'd be interested :beer:


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## Lois_Lane

BF200K said:


> Don't take the advice above, as you can see from Cons avatar he has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of people on here just ignore him.


But i just keep coming back and talking more sh1t:lol:



benicillin said:


> if he declines... i'd be interested :beer:


 Any time


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## steve2121

if you are serious, the gains you made from 15-17 were probably puberty and not your very impressive splits i.e you have made little to no gains. there is no point in you taking any pro hormones/ steroids etc, seeing as you are nowhere near your peak. 1. Sort your diet out, impossible to build muscle without a good high protein diet. 2. same workout for 2 years??? i change mine every 6-8 weeks, either in terms of reps, weight, or exercises. If you still decide to carry on with t bulletts i can 100% guarentee you that you will hardly gain any weight and just tone up because your diet is obviously inadequate. And also, your obviously young, your natural testosterone hasnt even reached its peak yet, and by taking steroids etc, it might never be able to.


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## Hendrix

Lois_Lane said:


> Pay me money and i will put 2 stone on you in 2 months and then get you ripped and it wont even be very hard.


Agree:thumbup1:


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## Slamdog

Has nobody told him that t-bullets shrink your cock? or were you just going to let him take them and come back after a month asking where his balls had gone and why his cock was only 3 inches long?

you bastards....


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## Smitch

This is the guy that was praising Sizars culinary skills a few months back.

Same style of wind up, funny initially but gets tedious....


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## G.I. Joe Galway

Ok i had to real 5 horrible pages and still didnt answer my question!

What in the blue hell are t-bullets?

I'm guessing OT?


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## Slamdog

G.I. Joe Galway said:


> Ok i had to real 5 horrible pages and still didnt answer my question!
> 
> What in the blue hell are t-bullets?
> 
> I'm guessing OT?


they are a nasty little pro-hormone.


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## Dazzaemm2k7

G.I. Joe Galway said:


> Ok i had to real 5 horrible pages and still didnt answer my question!
> 
> What in the blue hell are t-bullets?
> 
> I'm guessing OT?


there extreme nutritions own version of pro hormones


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## Smitch

Slamdog said:


> they are a nasty little pro-hormone.


Rams rated them, can't be that bad!

Mind you, he is full of sh1t. :laugh:


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## rs007

Slamdog said:


> Has nobody told him that t-bullets shrink your cock? or were you just going to let him take them and come back after a month asking where his balls had gone and why his cock was *only 3 inches long?*
> 
> you bastards....


You mean I can get a whole 1.5inch gain on my penis using T-Bullets? Why don't they use that on the marketing!!! Would fly off the shelves!


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## rs007

Slamdog said:


> they are a nasty little pro-hormone.


Incorrect Slam, get facts right before slating

They are a nasty little actual steroid :lol: :lol: :lol:

With a nasty little pro-hormone added too for good measure 

Just so happens very potent too, only a matter until they get banned IMO, as loop holes close up. I'll be using these over black market Dbol until that day though, far better IME and I would be saying that even if I wasn't awesome and sponsored


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## rs007

dutch_scott said:


> guess which now natty but soon to be geared right up alpha is looking at his bottle of nasty little drugs disguised as pro hormones :2guns:


Nasty = the new ALPHA

Get em' down you


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## freddee

Can I just ask a question about these T bullets, I couldn't find a profile, is this prohormone 17 alpha alylate or not????????


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## BRENNAN_92

Time for another T-Bullet for me lunch and about losing size on me c*ck. No matter I got plenty to spare


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## tom0311

Shame it's your balls that get smaller, not your cock. Fail.


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## sam2012

haha seriously wtf is this thread


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## BRENNAN_92

Why the balls?


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## BRENNAN_92

BADASSMASS said:


> haha seriously wtf is this thread


This thread was meant to be serious and loads of people came out with a load of Bull Sh1t !!!


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Why the balls?


how could you possibly be taking a hormone or any supplement without having done your research before hand !?

you are a ****in idiot !

please take the full bottle along with some pain killers and some white spirits or turps !


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## Paul40

wake up Brennan, smell the coffee and then please drink some, the caffine may bring you to a sense of reality of your situation.

this thread is losing the will to live. but, please, lets keep it going i want to hear more from this juvenile.


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## tom0311

Paul40 said:


> please, lets keep it going i want to hear more from this juvenile.


Really? :confused1: Let him fcuk himself up and learn the hard way. He had the chance to learn and didn't take it.


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## Dazzaemm2k7

BRENNAN_92 said:


> This thread was meant to be serious and loads of people came out with a load of Bull Sh1t !!!


 that's because several people have stated that you are not ready for something as strong as t-bullets because you know nothing about training and dieting, YET YOU STILL INSIST ON TAKING THEM ! its not just about what types of food you eat, more importantly its about HOW MUCH of each macro-nutrient you are eating etc ! do you even know how much protien you are eating per day and how much carbs and fats per day ? more importantly do you even know what you should be aiming at in terms on nutrients per day ? answer is NO , you dont have a clue yet you still insist on taking a very advanced supplement for trainers over 21 !

you know nothing about training and dieting and are taking a very advanced supplement so are therefore an impatient fool !

for the millionth time - TRAINING AND DIETING ALONE WILL GET YOU TO WHERE YOU WANT TO BE !

the fact that you have just dissmissed this very informative advice and information from myself and other members on here shows your total lack of respect and that you are a stubborn, selfish, impatient fool !

thats why people have been commenting "bull sh1t" , because of your total lack of respect for the older and wiser members (dismissing their advice) !


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## tom0311

Dazzaemm2k7 said:


> that's because several people have stated that you are not ready for something as strong as t-bullets because you know nothing about training and dieting, YET YOU STILL INSIST ON TAKING THEM ! its not just about what types of food you eat, more importantly its about HOW MUCH of each macro-nutrient you are eating etc ! do you even know how much protien you are eating per day and how much carbs and fats per day ? more importantly do you even know what you should be aiming at in terms on nutrients per day ? answer is NO , you dont have a clue yet you still insist on taking a very advanced supplement for trainers over 21 !
> 
> you know nothing about training and dieting and are taking a very advanced supplement so are therefore an impatient fool !
> 
> for the millionth time - TRAINING AND DIETING ALONE WILL GET YOU TO WHERE YOU WANT TO BE !
> 
> the fact that you have just dissmissed this very informative advice and information from myself and other members on here shows your total lack of respect and that you are a stubborn, selfish, impatient fool !
> 
> thats why people have been commenting "bull sh1t" , because of your total lack of respect for the older and wiser members (dismissing their advice) !


Don't take him so seriously mate, he's reeling you in. Just sit back and laugh at him.


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## BRENNAN_92

Dazzaemm2k7 said:


> that's because several people have stated that you are not ready for something as strong as t-bullets because you know nothing about training and dieting, YET YOU STILL INSIST ON TAKING THEM ! its not just about what types of food you eat, more importantly its about HOW MUCH of each macro-nutrient you are eating etc ! do you even know how much protien you are eating per day and how much carbs and fats per day ? more importantly do you even know what you should be aiming at in terms on nutrients per day ? answer is NO , you dont have a clue yet you still insist on taking a very advanced supplement for trainers over 21 !
> 
> you know nothing about training and dieting and are taking a very advanced supplement so are therefore an impatient fool !
> 
> for the millionth time - TRAINING AND DIETING ALONE WILL GET YOU TO WHERE YOU WANT TO BE !
> 
> the fact that you have just dissmissed this very informative advice and information from myself and other members on here shows your total lack of respect and that you are a stubborn, selfish, impatient fool !
> 
> thats why people have been commenting "bull sh1t" , because of your total lack of respect for the older and wiser members (dismissing their advice) !


Right I will take your advice and sell these T-Bullets. I want more advice from you after lunch.


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## Musashi

This is even more bizarre than a Big Vin thread


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## Slamdog

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Time for another T-Bullet for me lunch and about losing size on me c*ck. No matter I got plenty to spare


not for long..... if you lose half every cycle then you will be a dickless wonder pretty quickly....

Log Scales....

bet they don't teach that in maths any more.....


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## Suitelf11

What are "T-bullets"? Never heard of 'em over here.

TS is an obvious troll btw.


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## JAY-EL

How the T Bullets going? Get some pic`s up? 

You must of put some size on by now?? :whistling:


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## BRENNAN_92

JAY-EL said:


> How the T Bullets going? Get some pic`s up?
> 
> You must of put some size on by now?? :whistling:


These T-Bullets are going magnificent!

Next monday im starting 2 a day!


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## ^King Leonidas^

Iv just fin my t bullets there fekin awsum cant belive my strenth gains i can do 20kg curls in the squat rack :thumb: great success . Think next week ill try that protein stuff its ment to make you huge. Anyone used dat der cellltech? is it any good?


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## ba baracuss

WTF are t-bullets then?


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## Lois_Lane

ba baracuss said:


> WTF are t-bullets then?


 No idea but i want some after reading this thread!!!


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## ba baracuss

Lois_Lane said:


> No idea but i want some after reading this thread!!!


I just googled them and they do actually exist. Extreme are a pretty well respected company and claim some dude gained 18lbs from them :confused1:

Seems like a test booster unless it's some kind of prohormone :confused1:

http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/catalog/tbullet-caps-p-703.html


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## Lois_Lane

ba baracuss said:


> I just googled them and they do actually exist. Extreme are a pretty well respected company and claim some dude gained 18lbs from them :confused1:
> 
> Seems like a test booster unless it's some kind of prohormone :confused1:
> 
> http://www.extremenutrition.co.uk/catalog/tbullet-caps-p-703.html


 Looks like an effective product.

Even though i hate claims like 18lb muscle:rolleyes:


----------



## ba baracuss

AJ91 said:


> pretty sure its a prohormone, mix of a methylated and non methylated i read somewhere


Nice one. So that's what tinytom and pscarb have been using all this time :thumb:


----------



## benicillin

it is a pro hormone, contains superdrol.

I'm currently making good gains from it, not quite 18lbs though lol


----------



## Lois_Lane

benicillin said:


> it is a pro hormone, contains superdrol.
> 
> I'm currently making good gains from it, not quite 18lbs though lol


 Superdrol is stronger than most orals so no wonder.


----------



## ba baracuss

benicillin said:


> it is a pro hormone, contains superdrol.
> 
> I'm currently making good gains from it, not quite 18lbs though lol


Hope you don't get random delayed gyno from them as some do from superdrol mate.


----------



## benicillin

ba baracuss said:


> Hope you don't get random delayed gyno from them as some do from superdrol mate.


looked into it a lot before starting them mate so i'v got all i need to prevent gyno should the problem arise


----------



## ba baracuss

benicillin said:


> looked into it a lot before starting them mate so i'v got all i need to prevent gyno should the problem arise


 :thumbup1:


----------



## BRENNAN_92

benicillin said:


> looked into it a lot before starting them mate so i'v got all i need to prevent gyno should the problem arise


What is gyno? Is it like a f**k up of your testosterone system when coming of steriods. Or are you getting ****ed up during taking the T-Bullets and are ment to take somthing along with them?


----------



## tom0311

Why don't you just read by yourself without asking to be spoon fed everything. There's so much information on here you should be taking advantage of it.


----------



## BRENNAN_92

tom0311 said:


> Why don't you just read by yourself without asking to be spoon fed everything. There's so much information on here you should be taking advantage of it.


Thanks for the tip !

Im learning alot from this thread http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/47593-understanding-pct.html

:thumb:


----------



## tom0311

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Thanks for the tip !
> 
> Im learning alot from this thread http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/47593-understanding-pct.html
> 
> :thumb:


Good, there's plenty of stuff here mate. Everything you need to know.


----------



## kuju

*PCT - Post Cycle THerapy*...the re-starting of natural testosterone production shutdown by the use of androgens (like T Bullets)

*Gyno - *the development of breast tissue in males as result of hormonal (oestrogen) inmbalances...brought about by the use of androgens. Can be mediated or even prevented through proper use of androgens and ancilliaries such as aromoatase inhibitors and/or SERMs. If it's not caught properly then surgery is the only option to remove it. In extreme cases (and this is based on knowledge of some of these cases) more surgery is required. Like the 19 year old lad that developed gyno after using steroids with no understanding of what he was doing....who also had a history of breast cancer in the family... and had to have not only his gyno removed but a full mastectomy. The steroids didn't *cause *his cancer.... but if he hadn't ****ed about with things he didn't understand its a fair bet it wouldn't have started. So the aas didn't cause it...it was his reckless use of powerful androgens with no thought for hiew safety or well being that caused it...

*AI's and SERMS - *If you don't know what these are you shouldn't even be thinking about doing androgens (ie: Steroids, pro hormones....)

*Shutdown (HPTA) - *The cessation of normal, natural testosterone production vaused by the use of androgens.

*Shutdown (brain) - *The cessation of any coherent thought beyond "I want to be bigger...next week...and I don't care how much I screw myself up long term to achieve that". Often caused by bold advertising that clearly shows "the product" to be the single best anabolic thing the world has ever seen. By taking said product you can ignore the need for hard work in the gym, proper understanding of physiological responses to exercise and most importantly the need for good food and lots of it. "The product" will take away the need for food by producing muscle out of thin air...just using passing proteins in the air and small bits of dust to fuel the process. Seems to be more a feature of younger strength athletes. As we age, our ability to throw ourselves recklessly into big trenches full of liquid fvckwit declines...patience starts to creep in and it can take real dedication to overcome this and get back on teh "the next big thing to make you big". Scientific attempts to produce "patience inhibitors" (PI's) that would allow older trainers to throw themselves blindly at solid walls whilst eating buckets of unknown and misunderstood drugs have so far proved fruitless...although Met-Rx are workign on it....

It is understood that a combined SARM/DHEA/PI/AAS/Peptide product will eb coming soon that promises to blow every product thus far out of the water. Just as soon as I get a label printed off to put on these sugar pills.

*Exercise - *The process of damamging your body in order to force it to adapt and grow. No knowledge or understanding of hypertrophy or other physiological responses is required. SImply find the biggest weight you can and lift it as much as possible. Grunting loudly automaticaly adds 1/2" to both Bi's and Tri's.

*Prohormones or..."****biscuits" - *OTC steroidal drugs (androgens) designed to ensnare younger trainers into believing they are as invincible as they think they are. Take them in abundance....eventually your reproductive system will be so screwed you won't be able to procreate. This is a good thing..... for everyone else.

Seriously...if you're not a troll....ditch the pretty pills, go back to the books, start eating enough food to actually grow on and sort yoru exercise regime out. OR....keep taking the pretty sweeties and kill your sperm off for good so I don't have to have the same conversation again 18 years form now........

Sorry if that sounds mean..but that's the way it was meant. Trying to explain what's wrong with you taking t-bullets is not like talking to a brick wall....that would be far more productive.

GRIP.

Get one. :thumb:


----------



## kuju

On a more positive note....your avatar suggests you're in great shape - don't underestimate what you have - more is not always better.....


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory

kuju said:


> On a more positive note....your avatar suggests you're in great shape - don't underestimate what you have - more is not always better.....


It's not him in his avi.


----------



## kuju

NoGutsNoGlory said:


> It's not him in his avi.


Ah....well in that case ignore what I said!


----------



## BRENNAN_92

I started taking this new cycle of T-Bull on Monday and today my appetite has been huge just like it was on my last cycle of T-Bull.

=D


----------



## stuboy

Doesn't matter what you take, if you intend to gain anything then you need to eat regardless of your appetite.


----------



## flycatcher

they work great the only problem is they brought me out in some acne, i would recomend drinking a lot of water while taking them and maybe only takeing one capsule for the first week instead of two just to see how your body copes with them..


----------



## BRENNAN_92

flycatcher said:


> they work great the only problem is they brought me out in some acne, i would recomend drinking a lot of water while taking them and maybe only takeing one capsule for the first week instead of two just to see how your body copes with them..


The thing is though I drank a lot of water on my last cycle as we have a water machine at work. When I lost a stone when I had the flu I could'nt believe it.

The stone that I put on must of been a load of water wieght. This time on this cycle I am going to take less water and concentrate on me protien. Hopefully this will create more muscle and when the cycle ends I should loose the water then im hopeing their will be some wieght left that I put on that will be muscle.

And I always take 1 a day for the first week because 60 capsuales last exactly a month that way.


----------



## Fatstuff

So now ur goin to take less water with liver damaging prohormones , sounds healthy


----------



## Cluk89

who the fu(k has been repping this kid, OMG


----------



## BRENNAN_92

fatmanstan! said:


> So now ur goin to take less water with liver damaging prohormones , sounds healthy


Sorry I did'nt now they were liver damaging... Should I buy some Milk Thistle because my freind is on Deconate, Sus and Dbol and he takes Milk Thistle for the Dbol?


----------



## aka

Liv-52 is what you need, and drink plenty of water too


----------



## kuju

What you "need" is to back the heck away from powerful drugs you clearly don't understand.

Didn't realise they were liver damaging....... don't know what gyno is..... don't know about PCT. Don't eat enough....

How exactly do you manage to tie your own shoes in the morning?

Sorry - i'm usually very sympathetic and all that....but honestly. I'm so tired of seeing people screw themselves up on anabolics because they can't be bothered (a) finding out how their body really works ( B) assessing what the drugs are and how they work and any potential harmful effects ( B) actually putting some fvcking decent effort in to achieveing their (often poorly thought out) goals.

Milk thistle for dbol???? Rrriight. Milk thistle is a great supplement that offers liver protective qualities but it's not the save all that a lot of people think it is. It will help but it's not enough on it's own...nor is liv 52 (good as it is). Will be for some people of course...everything works for some people. But taking orals means whatching what else you put in your body....watch the saturated fats, avoid alcohol, avoid most recreational drugs etc etc.....

Actually - sod it - you're not listening to anyone anyway............. take half a bottle of t bullets a day for the next 8 months or more - no need to cycle anything, you're clearly invincible so it won't affect you......

Young 'uns and patience....ne'er the twain shall meet........ :bounce:


----------



## aka

Kuju are you on TREN or something?


----------



## Shreds

Cluk89 said:


> who the fu(k has been repping this kid, OMG


hahahh thats exactly what i was wondering! x 2 mate.


----------



## Shreds

akalatengo said:


> Kuju are you on TREN or something?


As much as his point is not very well put across the mere act of what he is saying is correct, the dude is clearly not very knowledgable about AAS or PH, doesn't know how to diet, or PCT depth really etc.

Personally 15 + people have told him you are inexperienced to take gear and his remark was to buy a new bottle of t bullets and run it again with a better diet.

Let me give you a little tip mate, get your diet, training, pct, everything in check BEFORE you start your cycle.

Buy your T bullets if you really want to. But before you take them, take 4-8 weeks off them and look actually how pct works in depth, diet and training and then you can think you are ready to take any form of performant enhancement supplements.

Before that, your kidding yourself and also wasting money, on loosing 14lbs or whatever you lost and gaining nothing, spending no doubt a lot of money on this stuff, when frankly at your age you really dont need them. I promise you as a personal trainer, mate, 80% + of muscle building is diet, if you have diet, perffffectly in check then you will make gains more rapidly than if you took these stupid PH pills no offence.

hope this one helps.


----------



## aka

custoshreds are you on TREN or something?


----------



## Andy Dee

akalatengo said:


> custoshreds are you on TREN or something?


akalatengo are you on TREN or something?


----------



## aka

hahaha, not but I can be

no much point in ranting after 126 post


----------



## kuju

akalatengo said:


> Kuju are you on TREN or something?


WHAT???!!! Now why the fvck would you say something like that eh??? EH???/ You looking at me funny? ARE ya???? I'm not afraid of you matey....I didn't fight in two world wars.....i'll admit. But that's not the point!!!

Etc rant slather....growl moan whinge......

Hehe  No not on tren....although that might have been a better excuse lol!!! I was tired, kranky and my job involves dealing with a LOT of people who take anabolics of various kinds with little or no knowledge...and sometimes I just get p*ssed off at the sheer stupidity. No idea why...it's not my body they're knackering...

And like you said...no point ranting after this many posts.

Back to the chill pills then.... one...two......and breeeeaaathe. The world is now a happy place again......

Except my butt - I fear I may have overdone my squats yesterday. And this is not a cool walk.....


----------



## BRENNAN_92

kuju said:


> Except my butt - I fear I may have overdone my squats yesterday. And this is not a cool walk.....


LoL, I was exactly the same last Friday. I was walking like I crapped my pants. How ever I have did a lot of research on these PH. I read up on the stickies in the PH section. I have sorted my diet out, I have sorted my training out aswell. I only spend an 1 Hour 15 Mins in the gym and get a good work out. Still have'nt got the full jist of gyno but im working on it.

So cut me some slack and I have been traing now for about 2 years.


----------



## kuju

BRENNAN_92 said:


> LoL, I was exactly the same last Friday. I was walking like I crapped my pants. How ever I have did a lot of research on these PH. I read up on the stickies in the PH section. I have sorted my diet out, I have sorted my training out aswell. I only spend an 1 Hour 15 Mins in the gym and get a good work out. *Still have'nt got the full jist of gyno but im working on it. **So cut me some slack and I have been traing now for about 2 years*.


Still haven't got to grips with a potentially serious side effect....but you want us to cut you some slack?

Mate - what you do with your body is entirely up to you and I wish you the very best in your efforts. I genuinely do. But taking PHs at your age is a no no. Taking PHs without understanding possible side effects and PCT - again a no no.

Just don't want to see you screw yourselof up mate....and no matter how good yoru diet and training...PH's have the potential for doing that. Especially for younger trainers. Just a thought.


----------



## BRENNAN_92

I now about PCT but the last cycle of T-Bullets I had have'nt effected me in anyway. My nuts have't shrunk and I ain't got swollen nipples.


----------



## Shreds

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I now about PCT but the last cycle of T-Bullets I had have'nt effected me in anyway. My nuts have't shrunk and I ain't got swollen nipples.


so if you know jumping off a cliff is dangerous and you say didnt die when jumped off and fell, would you do it again?

you know AAS cause your HPTA to shut down, so you might as well never run a PCT mate.

And also for your information nut shrinkage has no direct relation to the HPTA being shut down mate you could be shut down with normal hanging balls.


----------



## flinty90

cutoshreds said:


> so if you know jumping off a cliff is dangerous and you say didnt die when jumped off and fell, would you do it again?
> 
> you know AAS cause your HPTA to shut down, so you might as well never run a PCT mate.
> 
> And also for your information nut shrinkage has no direct relation to the HPTA being shut down mate you could be shut down with normal hanging balls.


i love the way your body looks !!!!


----------



## flinty90

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I now about PCT but the last cycle of T-Bullets I had have'nt effected me in anyway. My nuts have't shrunk and I ain't got swollen nipples.


----------



## MongolianCuuunt

thanks for posting


----------



## Shreds

MongolianCuuunt said:


> thanks for posting


Huh? first post lol and it doesnt make any sense.


----------



## kuju

BRENNAN_92 said:


> I now about PCT but the last cycle of T-Bullets I had have'nt effected me in anyway. My nuts have't shrunk and I ain't got swollen nipples.


Have you checked? Got bloodwork? How do you tell when you're shut down? How long did you leave between the last cycle and this one? How long should you leave between them? What arethe early signs of gyno? How is gyno treated and at what stage would you apply a specific treatment? Are there any oither issues you should be aware of around the use or anabolics? Or the use of methylated orals?

The list goes on............


----------



## BRENNAN_92

cutoshreds said:


> so if you know jumping off a cliff is dangerous and you say didnt die when jumped off and fell, would you do it again?
> 
> you know AAS cause your HPTA to shut down, so you might as well never run a PCT mate.
> 
> And also for your information nut shrinkage has no direct relation to the HPTA being shut down mate you could be shut down with normal hanging balls.


Pro Hormones could possibly make your balls shrink as your body is controlled by the brain. When taking PH it increases the test in your body, as I am a 18 I already have plenty but not enough to make those major gains. Taking PH could tell my brain that their is to much test running through my body so it could stop my natural test production to bring the levels of test down. Thats when my balls could begin to shrink and if that happens to you leave it for two weeks and start running PCT.

Luckily my body was fine after my last cycle which started on 5 Oct 2010 ended on 5 Nov 2010. So I have left a decent amount of months to tell if anything was wrong.

Hopefully nothing will happen on this cycle but if so I will be counting on you guys for advice.


----------



## BRENNAN_92

And could someone please post a link to a article that explains everything about gyno because their are no sticky on here...


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Pro Hormones could possibly make your balls shrink as your body is controlled by the brain. When taking PH it increases the test in your body, as I am a 18 I already have plenty but not enough to make those major gains. Taking PH could tell my brain that their is to much test running through my body so it could stop my natural test production to bring the levels of test down. Thats when my balls could begin to shrink and if that happens to you leave it for two weeks and start running PCT.
> 
> Luckily my body was fine after my last cycle which started on 5 Oct 2010 ended on 5 Nov 2010. So I have left a decent amount of months to tell if anything was wrong.
> 
> Hopefully nothing will happen on this cycle but if so I will be counting on you guys for advice.


I'm not getting involved with petty arguments but all i'm saying is that if I could go back to when I was 18 with the knowledge I have now then i'd be delighted.

Not going to pour more hate on you. Just make sure you eat enough, don't go out boozing every night and good luck with it. We were all beginners once (although I did do a bit of research) :innocent:


----------



## kuju

BRENNAN_92 said:


> Pro Hormones could possibly make your balls shrink as your body is controlled by the brain. When taking PH it increases the test in your body, as I am a 18 I already have plenty but not enough to make those major gains. Taking PH could tell my brain that their is to much test running through my body so it could stop my natural test production to bring the levels of test down. Thats when my balls could begin to shrink and if that happens to you leave it for two weeks and start running PCT.
> 
> . So I have left a decent amount of months to tell if anything was wrong.


Ok - now i'm a lot calmer lol! However....frankly you still worry me mate. Your post above shows ascant understanding of shut down at best. Your first port of call should be research into HPTA. And I mean really understanding the importance of GnRH, LH and FSH. and what they do.

Secondly = why wait two weeks? I know why people should wait between their last anbolic dose and the start of the pct but that time varies dramatically depending on the compound used.

If your balls are shrinking - why wait? Get em up and running....

Have you had your test levels checked? At age 18 you should have plenty enough to get big gains. If ou odn't i'd say you need checking.....but i suspect you do have enough.

You think you've left enough time to tell if anything was wrong.....two months. Sorry but that's not enough. I mean you should be ok doing a cycle now (well as much as you were before anyway) but how do yo think you tell if something is wrong? What would you look out for? Most truly difficlt problems from anabolics don't appear for a long time....so you may not be able to tell until it's too late. Or at least until it's much harder to deal with.

Sorry - I really don't want to be flaming you here but the truth is you haven't done enough research to use PHs IMO. SOme of them are powerful substances that can cause real problems for some people, do not treat them lightly. AGain - nt tying to flame you jus trying to look out for you mate....that's what places like this are for.

Just google:

1. HPTA

2. Dr Michael Scally 45 day protocol (i'm NOT suggesting you use it, its way too much for 4 weeks of PH but it does explain PCT quite well)

3. Gyno AND Rebound Gyno (from products sometimes used in PCT)

4. Average testosterone levels for various age groups (there'll be a huge range of answers to that but you should get some ideas) FInd out how much your average should be then find out what kind of levels BBs in their 30's+ have, even on cycle....you may be surprised at how close the numbers are. (Obviously some peopleare taking HUGE amounts....that's a whole different ball game...)

If you're strugglin then PM me, i've got stuff on all of the above...but really you need to find this stuff out for yourself...it's your body. Happy to help out if you need it though.... but please...give the anabolics a second thought.


----------



## squinty

cant comment to the OP's questions, but i am abit shocked at some of these replys, like replying with abbreviations that he obviously doesnt know, gets told his routine suxxors anf to go away and learn, (he came here for advise). some of the replys are outrageously sanctomonious and pontless, why ask him more questions without answering his, well done most of you have proved that you know more than him and are real experts, and your knowlage is some kind of secret never to be told..

anyway i looked at the profile pics, and he looks better than most of you, sorry. :lol:


----------



## TrainingwithMS

squinty said:


> cant comment to the OP's questions, but i am abit shocked at some of these replys, like replying with abbreviations that he obviously doesnt know, gets told his routine suxxors anf to go away and learn, (he came here for advise). some of the replys are outrageously sanctomonious and pontless, why ask him more questions without answering his, well done most of you have proved that you know more than him and are real experts, and your knowlage is some kind of secret never to be told..
> 
> anyway i looked at the profile pics, and he looks better than most of you, sorry. :lol:


If that's him in his profile pic then I'm about to jump onstage at the Arnold Classic in a mo :lol:

I think the general gist of things here is he came in asking for advice and ignored all attempts to help him. At which point the patience of the regular and knowledgeable members understandably started to wear thin.


----------



## Fatstuff

squinty said:


> cant comment to the OP's questions, but i am abit shocked at some of these replys, like replying with abbreviations that he obviously doesnt know, gets told his routine suxxors anf to go away and learn, (he came here for advise). some of the replys are outrageously sanctomonious and pontless, why ask him more questions without answering his, well done most of you have proved that you know more than him and are real experts, and your knowlage is some kind of secret never to be told..
> 
> anyway i looked at the profile pics, and he looks better than most of you, sorry. :lol:


So revived an old thread to be a hero, that's not him in his avi


----------



## PHHead

Wow what a thread, thats all I'm going to say lol..............


----------



## aka

squinty said:


> cant comment to the OP's questions, but i am abit shocked at some of these replys, like replying with abbreviations that he obviously doesnt know, gets told his routine suxxors anf to go away and learn, (he came here for advise). some of the replys are outrageously sanctomonious and pontless, why ask him more questions without answering his, well done most of you have proved that you know more than him and are real experts, and your knowlage is some kind of secret never to be told..
> 
> anyway i looked at the profile pics, and he looks better than most of you, sorry. :lol:


I'm so pleased that you have posted, life didn't make sense without you and your divine speech has made me a much better body building.

Nice first post

When can we all s'ck you knowledge and expertises?


----------



## kuju

squinty said:


> cant comment to the OP's questions, but i am abit shocked at some of these replys, like replying with abbreviations that he obviously doesnt know, gets told his routine suxxors anf to go away and learn, (he came here for advise). some of the replys are outrageously sanctomonious and pontless, why ask him more questions without answering his, well done most of you have proved that you know more than him and are real experts, and your knowlage is some kind of secret never to be told..
> 
> anyway i looked at the profile pics, and he looks better than most of you, sorry. :lol:


I get your point but as TrainingwithMS pointed out - we offered advice but he didn't want to listen. He also didn't seem too hot on doing his own research. You can't spoon feed everyone on here...people have to put some effort in themselves. Yes I threw lots of acronyms and technical terms at him without explaining them. The idea was to make him realise how little he knew about the compounds he was using. I actually wanted him to be slightly confused..possibly even worried....because then he might have backed of the PH's and gone back to finding out how to do things safely.

As for our knowledge being a secret never to be told....there are few things more out there in the public domain at the moment than how to build muscle and increase conditioning. There are no "secrets the personal trainers don't want you to know". Just have to use the search button...............


----------



## Btnek1664

Some good advice given by numerous members on every aspect of body building,sadly you can offer advice but there is no way to make the recipient take any notice of the advice..keep up the good work gents,people like myself appreciate and inwardly digest the info (i get a bit lost with some of it but the majority of the info is in layman's)and try to put it into practice-don't stop giving it out/contributing due to one bad apple........


----------



## Wevans2303

The level of misinformation in this thread is scary.


----------



## kuju

Wevans2303 said:


> The level of misinformation in this thread is scary.


Could you be more specific mate? This thread, like all others, will stand for people to read in the future....someone who wants information about the use of PHs may well look at this and I would argue there's quite a bit of good information in here. However - that same person reaching your post will then be left wondering what you're referring to.

I'm more than happy to be corrected on anything I write - but please be specific with criticisms if possible. Just for everyone else's benefit really... and who knows - maybe we'll learn something new?


----------



## NickBirch

i stopped taking the OP seriously round about his second post....


----------



## jaca

Hi folks,bought som t bullets off a guy from work but would like to know if I've bought the right stuff, they are black caps with a brown liquid in them. Cheers


----------



## aka

jaca said:


> Hi folks,bought som t bullets off a guy from work but would like to know if I've bought the right stuff, they are black caps with a brown liquid in them. Cheers


don't buy or take imitations, who knows what's in it it could be rat sweat with camel wee


----------



## kuju

jaca said:


> Hi folks,bought som t bullets off a guy from work but would like to know if I've bought the right stuff, they are black caps with a brown liquid in them. Cheers


I'm with akalatengo here....... be careful what you but. T Bullets are clearly NOT black caps. So whetever you got......ain't them. Unless there's a brand new formula out fo course - but ifthere is i suspect it won't be as good.


----------



## jaca

cheers guys,i can tell you that ive given the stuff back to the guy at work who wasnt to happy,he still says there T BULLETS but i cant take the risk. so im gonna buy the proper stuff off EXTREME NUTRITION....


----------



## aka

jaca said:


> cheers guys,i can tell you that ive given the stuff back to the guy at work who wasnt to happy,he still says there T BULLETS but i cant take the risk. so im gonna buy the proper stuff off EXTREME NUTRITION....


wise decision mate they might be a bit more expensive but then you know whats in the tin, you get a discount if you go to musclechat.co.uk and search for a member called "extreme" and in his signature there is a code that will give you 10% discount


----------



## Kev1980

I cannot believe a guy at work tried to sell you fake t-bulletts?!?

*If people reading this want some real advise, i will give it to you i have taken these, to be fair i would probably take anything if i thought it would make me bigger!*

If you are new to body building or have been in the gym less than 1 year with a good workout DO NOT BOTHER TAKING THESE. They are good but i took them after returning to the gym after 6 years off and I had only been going back to the gym for 6 months and yes i made gains but to be absolutely honest I feel i would have made them any way through good diet and the fact my muscles were getting trashed by new a varied split work outs.

I honestly 100% believe that i should have waited until after a least a year and when i was struggling to make gains. It is so easy to look at these as a quick fix but trust me they are not. All you need intially is a good clean diet and a good varied workout plan.

These are designer Steriods FACT and you should have a PCT lined up incase you feel you need it.


----------



## kuju

Just to add to the above comments (nice work btw Steventon) - the reality is that even with "real" OTC Pro Hormones you don't actually know what you're gettign for sure. A number of studies have shown that many OTC PH's are not what they are labelled as. They usually contain a steroid of some kind but not necessarily what they claim - or at the dose they claim. So in essence......you're always taking some sort of risk with it.

But given teh choice between OTC t bullets or some dodgy completely unknown pills........probably best to stick with the actual OTC product.


----------



## jaca

been takin t bullets now for a few weeks but not been able to get to the gym as much so not really gettin full use of them so was wonderin if i stop takin them just now will i need to run pct or is it cool just to stop and start takin some creatine. dont really want to stop and start growin tits or hav no use of my nutts as the wife wouldnt be to pleased hahaha


----------



## kuju

jaca said:


> been takin t bullets now for a few weeks but not been able to get to the gym as much so not really gettin full use of them so was wonderin if i stop takin them just now will i need to run pct or is it cool just to stop and start takin some creatine. dont really want to stop and start growin tits or hav no use of my nutts as the wife wouldnt be to pleased hahaha


The first thing i'd say is only take things like this when you have a clear time period in which to focus and get the best out of them. Life does get in teh way I know but you should be fairly sure you can do it justice before you start. All things like this are just superchargers...nothing more. If the baics aren't right then you're wasting your time and money.

Secondly - you say you've been using them for a few weeks - how long exactly? The longer you're on the more likely shut down is. You should al;ways run PCT after using anabolics like this....but don't blindly follow some of the truly dumb PCT protocols i've seen even on here. Taking Tamoxifen for 4-5 weeks following a 3-4 week pro hormone cycles is beyond idiotic and likely to cause more problems. Your PCT should match your cycle. A 3-4 week cycle of a prohormone like these SHOULD need no more than about 10 days of PCT. What you use and how much depends on the doses you used in cycle. Overly aggressive PCT protocols can cause as many problems as the cycle itself. Before anyone points this out though......... yes I know some people will need a longer PCT, but at an average of 20-30 mg a day of most prohormones you do NOT need 4 weeks of Tamoxifen. If we say that that IS the case then we are saying over the counter orals are significantly stronger than injectable testosterone which is plainly not realistic.

So - depends on what does you've used and for how long and how sensitive you are to things like gyno. It's unlikely you'll be so shut down it'll be a major problem for you though. But not impossible.....

As for the creatine thing..... err.....I don't really understand why people have creatine as part of their PCT. It's completely and utterly irrelevant in terms of hormonal management. Doesn't mean it's a bad idea of course - I just don't undestand why people expressly state it's part of their PCT as though it has some effect there. Creatine has a few benefits outside of the replenishment of ATP but primarily that is what it's used for. It should just be something you use...full stop. Younger trainers or people who eat lots of oily fish like salmon probably won't need it but it won't hurt. Cycle it to overcome saturation but otherwise...just use it. It is no more relevant to a cycle of prohormones or AAS than whey protein is. (Unless you're using anavar of course...but that's a different story).


----------



## Fat

Is the OP alive? :lol:


----------



## digitalis

kuju said:


> Just to add to the above comments (nice work btw Steventon) - the reality is that even with "real" OTC Pro Hormones you don't actually know what you're gettign for sure. A number of studies have shown that many OTC PH's are not what they are labelled as. They usually contain a steroid of some kind but not necessarily what they claim - or at the dose they claim. So in essence......you're always taking some sort of risk with it.
> 
> But given teh choice between OTC t bullets or some dodgy completely unknown pills........probably best to stick with the actual OTC product.


Mate this is spot on. You can buy dbol for a lot less than pro hormones, and there are decades of research and experience to call from. Remember M1T and Tren bomb by pharma lab? God knows what was in them but they were way way different to these dbol I'm on, in a bad way and both got banned shortly after release. My mate took a few cycles of tren bombs and lost his hair, as did his work colleague lol.

The reason these ph's are all the rage IMO is because steroids in the US is a big no no legal wise, so a lot of their guys who can't get legit steroids are turning to these. Supply and demand and all that. As we know most fitness crazes from America end up here. Just my two cents, probably other factors as well.


----------



## bryl

Hello mate, am from Shields what gym do you train at?? And some good advice on here but also so bad ones just trying to put you down, go to forms and other sites and get advice from them, and at the end of the day it's your body/life, so it's upto you what you do with it.


----------



## henchbear

bryl said:


> Hello mate, am from Shields what gym do you train at?? And some good advice on here but also so bad ones just trying to put you down, go to forms and other sites and get advice from them, and at the end of the day it's your body/life, so it's upto you what you do with it.


 wasting your time bro with this one gyno in the making lmao


----------



## bryl

Maybe you're right, but if the kid doesn't know then the kid doesn't know, but he did get some harsh stick lol.


----------



## Fatstuff

this thread still going lol, epic thread this was v much so


----------



## bryl

Am a new member and just reading some posts and having my say.


----------



## anonymous77

HI,

this is just a quick warning - my acquaintance was just admitted a few days ago to a hospital with acute liver failure after taking T-Bullets for a few weeks. I am a pediatrician myself and do not know a lot about oral hormones used for workout. He has no other risk factors, he does not drink alcohol etc. He might be listed for liver transplant if his liver does not recover...


----------



## Breda

anonymous77 said:


> HI,
> 
> this is just a quick warning - my acquaintance was just admitted a few days ago to a hospital with acute liver failure after taking T-Bullets for a few weeks. I am a pediatrician myself and do not know a lot about oral hormones used for workout. He has no other risk factors, he does not drink alcohol etc. He might be listed for liver transplant if his liver does not recover...


How can you pin point his liver failure to T bullets?

how long was he using them for?

What doseage etc etc


----------



## infernal0988

mate iknow you are inpatient but fawking around with your body at such a early age and with so little knowledge can really fawk you up in the long run, depression & mental issues etc, not to mention the serious side effects of the meds at such a early age


----------



## anonymous77

... well it is well known that androgen hormones can induce liver damage... It has been known in 1977 already (google LIVER DAMAGE FROM LONG-TERM METHYLTESTOSTERONE). He has no other risk factors, so we guess this is after T-bullets which he was taking over a few weeks and after which he rapidly deteriorated and his liver failed. Thats all I can say for now.


----------



## Breda

anonymous77 said:


> ... well it is well known that androgen hormones can induce liver damage... It has been known in 1977 already (google LIVER DAMAGE FROM LONG-TERM METHYLTESTOSTERONE). He has no other risk factors, so we guess this is after T-bullets which he was taking over a few weeks and after which he rapidly deteriorated and his liver failed. Thats all I can say for now.


ok come back when you have some proof please

thanks


----------



## infernal0988

like breda said give us rock solid proof of this and then we will talk.


----------



## jjcooper

this thread is full of boring information and i am discusted that a troll got 12 pages worth of response! 1st reply should have been research diet and training forget supplements!

And the funniest part he then creates an account claiming to be a paediatrician when he cant spell the profession! such a bore!


----------



## anonymous77

Guys, you are miserable ignorants. Why would I make it up? Yes I am a pediatrician who trained in the US, so sorry for not writing "ae" ;-), also I don´t live in the UK.

There is no proof besides the acute liver damage, and no other precipitating factors (not even viral hepatitis) but the T-bullets. When we treat patients with androgens we always monitor liver function, every doctor should know it, you should know it. Anyhow I do not want to critisize anyone taking it (you are all adults and decide for yourself), but I am really worried that if he worsens he will be listed for liver transplant. Over.


----------



## anonymous77

By the way - I googled T-bullets and got this thread - it helped me to find what synthetic anabolics are included in "T-bullets".


----------



## jjcooper

why would a paediatrician work with adults using steroids?


----------



## C.Hill

anonymous77 said:


> By the way - I googled T-bullets and got this thread - it helped me to find what synthetic anabolics are included in "T-bullets".


What dose was he running mate?

Not calling you a liar, but I, and many others, highly doubt it was the superdrol/ mlmg (compounds in t-bullets) that ruined his liver, especially after a few weeks....


----------



## Breda

C.Hill:2761788 said:


> What dose was he running mate?
> 
> Not calling you a liar, but I, and many others, highly doubt it was the superdrol/ mlmg (compounds in t-bullets) that ruined his liver, especially after a few weeks....


I Already asked such relevant questions and I was conveniently ignored


----------



## anonymous77

jjcooper said:


> why would a paediatrician work with adults using steroids?


We use it for several conditions in children, but always monitor liver function and if it worsens, we wean off.


----------



## C.Hill

C.Hill said:


> What dose was he running mate?
> 
> Not calling you a liar, but I, and many others, highly doubt it was the superdrol/ mlmg (compounds in t-bullets) that ruined his liver, especially after a few weeks....


BUMP!!


----------



## anonymous77

Breda said:


> I Already asked such relevant questions and I was conveniently ignored


I didnt know until now: 2 tablets per day over a period of one month. No other drugs, no smoking. Anyhow: in most people these drugs probably do no irreversible harm to the liver. But if your liver is predamaged or you have some mutations/polymorphisms in metabolizing genes, your liver might fail even after low doses of these androgens


----------



## Breda

anonymous77:2761910 said:


> I didnt know until now: 2 tablets per day over a period of one month. No other drugs, no smoking. Anyhow: in most people these drugs probably do no irreversible harm to the liver. But if your liver is predamaged or you have some mutations/polymorphisms in metabolizing genes, your liver might fail even after low doses of these androgens


So you saying he had underlying liver issues then???


----------



## Ahal84

Breda said:


> So you saying he had underlying liver issues then???


X2


----------



## C.Hill

anonymous77 said:


> I didnt know until now: 2 tablets per day over a period of one month. No other drugs, no smoking. Anyhow: in most people these drugs probably do no irreversible harm to the liver. But if your liver is predamaged or you have some mutations/polymorphisms in metabolizing genes, your liver might fail even after low doses of these androgens


So it wasn't t-bullets.....c'mon mate!


----------



## anonymous77

Breda said:


> So you saying he had underlying liver issues then???


Not obvious, but I guess yes. Anyhow I registered to this forum to find out what this drug is and to give you a little warning. You guys are all healthy and dont need these crap synthetic androgens.


----------



## C.Hill

anonymous77 said:


> Not obvious, but I guess yes. Anyhow I registered to this forum to find out what this drug is and to give you a little warning. You guys are all healthy and dont need these crap synthetic androgens.


I wouldn't say superdrol is crap. I'd say it's very effective and safe if used responsible.

It's not for donuts!!!


----------



## Breda

C.Hill:2761990 said:


> I wouldn't say superdrol is crap. I'd say it's very effective and safe if used responsible.
> 
> It's not for donuts!!!


Agreed

And I believe it comes with a warning advising to consult a doctor before use.


----------



## aka

those American guys are all out about suing companies to get money


----------



## infernal0988

Mate you make as much sense as dogsh!t on toast, go to bed little kiddy and don`t forget your milk bottle oh i meant protein shake:whistling:



anonymous77 said:


> I didnt know until now: 2 tablets per day over a period of one month. No other drugs, no smoking. Anyhow: in most people these drugs probably do no irreversible harm to the liver. But if your liver is predamaged or you have some mutations/polymorphisms in metabolizing genes, your liver might fail even after low doses of these androgens


----------



## anonymous77

Yes you are right, I make no sense and you don´t get my message. It seems that in your case not the liver but the brain got damaged. Good luck.



infernal0988 said:


> Mate you make as much sense as dogsh!t on toast, go to bed little kiddy and don`t forget your milk bottle oh i meant protein shake:whistling:


----------



## infernal0988

Oh i must say i really felt insulted their (Did you smell that?) Thats the smell of sarcasm Mr.PHD. :lol:



anonymous77 said:


> Yes you are right, I make no sense and you don´t get my message. It seems that in your case not the liver but the brain got damaged. Good luck.


----------



## kuju

Wow. I am absolutely stunned at the responses on here to that anonymous poster. Firstly he/she gets called a troll because they spell paediatrician using...surprise surprise...their native language version as opposed to ours. MASSIVE leap to assume it was the OP trolling there - verging on the paranoid I'd say.

And then...it transpires that it's someone who comes from a strictly medical background, with no experience and little understanding of the use of PIEDs but who, for fairly obvious reason, is toeing the medical line of being over-cautious about the possible dangers. Wow...a doctor erring on the side of caution; what a terrible thing. Let's hope all the doctors in the world throw caution to the wind to balance it out eh.

The truth is there are a large number of case studies of people experiencing severe liver problems following a few weeks of superdrol alone. This is an extremely powerful substance and the bottom line is it CAN wreck your liver...and that's a bad, bad, way to go. Ok so it seems the majority of peopel get away with it - but unless they get bloodwork or their liver starts to pack up how would any of them KNOW their liver's survived the experience unscathed? They can't. You can't guesstimate something like that.

So - here we have a forum where people come for advice and support. Someone coming to the forum for the first time and reading that last couple of pages would probably go elsewhere..and frankly I don't blame them. The end of this thread has just turned into a slanging match with a load of keyboard warriors shouting down someone withotu ever seeming to stop and consider a single iota of the actual situation. If you re-read the anonymous77 posts you'll see that all they said was....someone they know was taking t-bullets for several weeks, t bullets contain compounds that can cause well-documented and potentially severe liver problems, that person was not subject to other potential external issues that could impact on the liver (ie reccy drug use, alcohol, poor dietary choices etc) and the poster decided to add to this thread by pointout that it's just possible t-bullets could cause some people serious problems. Which is true.

How about you try putting yourself in that person's place and see things from their perspective? Their posts come across somewhat differently if you do that. A lack of knowledge and understanding is perfectly excusable. Utter ignorance isn't.

Given that their starting point was from a limited knowledge base would it REALLY have killed you lot to point out that the incidence of liver problems from superdrol is apparently fairly low (bear in mind that there will be people who present with liver problems without ever mentioning their use of PIEDs so it's impossible to know how under-reported it is) and to then discuss the possible other causes, find out more, ask about the guy's training, his diet - ask if the subsequent medical investigations had uncovered any pre-existing problems or in any way tried to clarify the situation so that poster could become better informed and other people who read this thread could also benefit? Only one person actually made a real effort to do that...one.

Sorry guys - I know i'm ranting but the last couple of pages of abuse levelled at that person are just disgusting.......and precisely the reason I don't really come on here anymore. Forums like this should offer advice and support in a non-judgemental fashion so everyone benfits. However this just looks like UKM is going the same way as a few other forums and turning into a place where people can shout others down. Pitiful...absolutely pitiful.

I would argue this thread needs locking down before someone else makes the mistake of asking "the wrong question".


----------



## richycrich

First post so be gentle, lol.

This is a long thread with lots of info but also a lot of chaff to sift through and I really need some proper advice.

I bought some t bullets, advertising guff and info on the web looked good - used them for a month and had great results with no side effects.

Got to the end of the bottle and was looking about buying more or how long a rest I should have when I came across info about pct. Not wanting to mess with things that I know nothing about I opted for tongkat ali extract and some growth hormone releaser - all natural stuff.

I finished the t bullets on thursday and started the natural stuff but have noticed that things aint what they should be already (monday). My chest feels a little flabby. During the last month the wife enjoyed solid hard on's that didnt go away but today, 4 days after t bullets, I could barely get a hard on or keep it. That freaked me out a bit until I cam across something about shrinking testicles and put my hand on my balls.....

So, I have the natural stuff and just bought some stuff called reload from the same people that make t bullets, presumably their own pct that they said bullets never needed. What else do I need to do? How long does it take for your balls to grow back and is this going to make trying for a baby harder work than it should be?


----------



## Prophecy

I have some of these on the way but I do NOT want my balls to shrink. Fcuking scary!!!!!!! I might just sell them on eGay.



richycrich said:


> First post so be gentle, lol.
> 
> This is a long thread with lots of info but also a lot of chaff to sift through and I really need some proper advice.
> 
> I bought some t bullets, advertising guff and info on the web looked good - used them for a month and had great results with no side effects.
> 
> Got to the end of the bottle and was looking about buying more or how long a rest I should have when I came across info about pct. Not wanting to mess with things that I know nothing about I opted for tongkat ali extract and some growth hormone releaser - all natural stuff.
> 
> I finished the t bullets on thursday and started the natural stuff but have noticed that things aint what they should be already (monday). My chest feels a little flabby. During the last month the wife enjoyed solid hard on's that didnt go away but today, 4 days after t bullets, I could barely get a hard on or keep it. That freaked me out a bit until I cam across something about shrinking testicles and put my hand on my balls.....
> 
> So, I have the natural stuff and just bought some stuff called reload from the same people that make t bullets, presumably their own pct that they said bullets never needed. What else do I need to do? How long does it take for your balls to grow back and is this going to make trying for a baby harder work than it should be?


----------



## C.Hill

richycrich said:


> First post so be gentle, lol.
> 
> This is a long thread with lots of info but also a lot of chaff to sift through and I really need some proper advice.
> 
> I bought some t bullets, advertising guff and info on the web looked good - used them for a month and had great results with no side effects.
> 
> Got to the end of the bottle and was looking about buying more or how long a rest I should have when I came across info about pct. Not wanting to mess with things that I know nothing about I opted for tongkat ali extract and some growth hormone releaser - all natural stuff.
> 
> I finished the t bullets on thursday and started the natural stuff but have noticed that things aint what they should be already (monday). My chest feels a little flabby. During the last month the wife enjoyed solid hard on's that didnt go away but today, 4 days after t bullets, I could barely get a hard on or keep it. That freaked me out a bit until I cam across something about shrinking testicles and put my hand on my balls.....
> 
> So, I have the natural stuff and just bought some stuff called reload from the same people that make t bullets, presumably their own pct that they said bullets never needed. What else do I need to do? How long does it take for your balls to grow back and is this going to make trying for a baby harder work than it should be?


Yep, it's shut you down. Your full of estrogen.

This is why I stress the importance of a serm pct for superdrol, its harsh stuff, just because it's OTC or someone recovered fine doesn't mean it can't mess you up.

I would get your hands on some nolva and clomid asap mate, and do more research before reaching for the steroids.

Could take days, weeks, months? For your balls to get back online, all down to the individual, shouldn't take too long though.


----------



## C.Hill

Prophecy said:


> I have some of these on the way but I do NOT want my balls to shrink. Fcuking scary!!!!!!! I might just sell them on eGay.


That's a side effect you may have to accept one day when taking steroids?


----------



## Prophecy

C.Hill said:


> That's a side effect you may have to accept one day when taking steroids?


I must have been tired when I posted, because I thought this thread was talking about T-Bombs, not T-Bullets. Alwys getting the two terms mixed up in my heed.


----------



## C.Hill

Prophecy said:


> I must have been tired when I posted, because I thought this thread was talking about T-Bombs, not T-Bullets. Alwys getting the two terms mixed up in my heed.


If my memory serves me right t-bombs are m1t, stronger than t-bullets.

Yes, it can still give you gyno.


----------



## richycrich

C.Hill said:


> Yep, it's shut you down. Your full of estrogen.
> 
> This is why I stress the importance of a serm pct for superdrol, its harsh stuff, just because it's OTC or someone recovered fine doesn't mean it can't mess you up.
> 
> I would get your hands on some nolva and clomid asap mate, and do more research before reaching for the steroids.
> 
> Could take days, weeks, months? For your balls to get back online, all down to the individual, shouldn't take too long though.


I have done a lot of reading and know about needing nolva and clomid but my problem is that I cant source it.

I have the natural stuff - any good?

I am waiting on extreme nutritions own answer...reload.....any good?

All I can find here is these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANTI-ESTROGEN-PCT-POST-CYCLE-THERAPY-/250973425994?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item3a6f2e914a#ht_500wt_1156 which are listed as anti estrogen, are they any use?


----------



## m118

C.Hill said:


> If my memory serves me right t-bombs are m1t, stronger than t-bullets.
> 
> Yes, it can still give you gyno.


aaah yes, tren bombs. another classicly mislabelled product. am i correct in saying they're also the maker of esto suppress?


----------



## C.Hill

m118 said:


> aaah yes, tren bombs. another classicly mislabelled product. am i correct in saying they're also the maker of esto suppress?


Think so mate, that's why I thought they made sd matrix? To replace tren bombs a few years ago?


----------



## richycrich

am trying to find nolva and clomid but...

the tongkat ali extract and growth hormone releaser...any good as a natural answer to pct?

extremes own answer, reload.....any good?

is any anti estrogen tablet better than none?


----------



## Ahal84

Use a SERM. U can find Nolva and Clomid here: unitedpharmacies or alldaychemist


----------



## ba baracuss

I wouldn't fcuk about and get some nolva and clomid if I were you. Some aromasin and proviron wouldn't hurt either.

Some of these guys who know more about SD than me can give their own experience though. Posting in the PH section would help too.

These fcukers are a lot stronger than most people seem to realise.


----------



## C.Hill

richycrich said:


> am trying to find nolva and clomid but...
> 
> the tongkat ali extract and growth hormone releaser...any good as a natural answer to pct?
> 
> extremes own answer, reload.....any good?
> 
> is any anti estrogen tablet better than none?





morgan84 said:


> Use a SERM. U can find Nolva and Clomid here: unitedpharmacies or alldaychemist


 ^This.


----------



## richycrich

Thanks guys and I know what you have said but am in the uk so getting the nolva and clomid isnt easy by any means. Thats why I was asking about the other things and hoping that in the meantime something is better than nothing and I am not just completely wasting my time.

proviron I have read about, isnt that something like a steroid that you have to inject? I only got the tbullets because they were otc and hassle free (I thought lol) not really wanting to go down the roid route tbh.

edit - morgan, just saw that you are uk, will those places ship to uk? how do i order from them without a prescription?


----------



## ba baracuss

It is easy mate. Loads of people use the above pharmacies.

Proviron is a tab. Sounds like you don't have a gear source so you might not be able to get that. It's basically a weak androgen which would help your mood and sex drive.


----------



## richycrich

ok, have read what has been recommended and that is 20mg nolva for 45 days and 50mg clomid twice a day for 30 days. But that is for roids, do I need to take that much after one months worth of bullets?


----------



## C.Hill

richycrich said:


> ? I only got the tbullets because they were otc and hassle free (I thought lol) not really wanting to go down the roid route tbh.


Again, they ARE steroids, you ARE going down the roid route!



richycrich said:


> .
> 
> edit - morgan, just saw that you are uk, will those places ship to uk? how do i order from them without a prescription?


Yep they deliver mate, take roughly 2 weeks.

Search clofert-50 and tamoxifen.


----------



## C.Hill

richycrich said:


> But that is for roids, do I need to take that much after one months worth of bullets?


AAAAAAAARGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!


----------



## richycrich

lol, yeah fair one but I didnt know.

Hey, on the plus side, wifey enjoyed the bullets and was sure my dick was much bigger......I wont tell her it just looked that way because my nuts shrunk, lol


----------



## C.Hill

Lol funny shít.

Just remember though sd is a steroid and I and many others find it harsher than the likes of dbol and winny, even test.

Research research research!!!


----------



## kuju

richycrich said:


> Thanks guys and I know what you have said but am in the uk so getting the nolva and clomid isnt easy by any means. Thats why I was asking about the other things and hoping that in the meantime something is better than nothing and I am not just completely wasting my time.
> 
> proviron I have read about, isnt that something like a steroid that you have to inject? I only got the tbullets because they were otc and hassle free (I thought lol) not really wanting to go down the roid route tbh.
> 
> edit - morgan, just saw that you are uk, will those places ship to uk? how do i order from them without a prescription?


Jesus christ......talk about overdoing things!!

Ok -first things first i'll set my stall out - I study the use of performance and image enhancing drugs for a living and have done so for more years than I can be bothered remembering. I am utterly immersed in this field so I know what i'm talking about. Sorry...that all sounds a bit "hey look at me i'm amazing blah blah". REALLY not meant that way at all....I just needed to establish where I get my information from...ie: clinical research and of course the experience of working with bodybuilders and other strength athletes for many years.

So...on to your issue. Firstly an aggressive regime of nolva and clomid combined after at best 4 weeks of t bullets is potentially a VERY bad idea. You are likely to cause more problems than you solve...not least of which would be rebound gyno. I will never understand why people suggest the kind of PCT regimes usually reserved for 10+ weeks of injectable testosterones at much higher doses than you would use things like superdrol for. It's overkill, it has no basis in science and it's just fvcking wrong.

To put this in perspective - how shut down you are depends on a variety of factors and ongoing work with people using AAS has shown that some people can be shut down for months after they finish their normal PCT....or recovered in a very short time. Its very personal, it's highly variable and without bloodwork you have NO IDEA how shut down you are. You can't "feel it". Yes you can see obvious signs sometimes but that just shows you are shut down..not how much or how long it's likely to last. Your PCT should be appropriate to your needs...not some blindly followed regime posted and re-posted in internet forums.

So - let's go back to the beginning.......obviously you've realised you should have done your homework better before taking a steroid (superdrol is not a prohormone). So moving on from that:

What you took contained two compounds; SUperdrol and Max LMG (trade names). Superdrol is a steroid, it's a di-methylated version of Masteron in fact...and as such cannot aromatise to oestrogen, nor is it progestinal. That means elevated estrogen levels are HIGHLY unlikely from superdrol. Equally - max-lmg...often referred to as a "wet" compound because of the nature of the gains you get on it (ie includes water retention) is a progestin. So again - elevated oestrogen is highly unlikely. This doesn't mean that neither of these compounds can give you gyno; there are a number of mechanisms by which gyno can be induced and not all of them are fully understood. However...the chances of it being due to elevated oestrogen levels are distinctly unlikely so whoever suggested you were full of oestrogen is probably off the mark. If it happens it's more likely to be due to the progestin...in which case anti-e's are pointless.

More importantly - using Nolva is then a waste of time...if there is no elevated oestrogen - what exactly is a SERM going to block? (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator...blocks the action of estrogen at the cellular level). Clomid *could* be useful here...but again - neither compound is going to deal with progestinal side-effects.

I saw a suggestion to throw some aromasin and proviron in there too.........NO!!! Aromasin can cause it's own problems and is only there to deal with estrogen....which is unlikely to be an issue - so avoid it in this instance. Proviron is basically a pure androgen - yes it'll get your libido back up whilst you're on it but then you have a mess of androgen side-effects to deal with. The idea of taking nolva. clomid, aromasin and proviron as PCT for 4 weeks of superdrol is one of the most ridiculous solutions i've ever heard...and that's saying something. It's openign the door to a raft of problems you don't need and probably won't solve your issue!

Ok - so enough whining about some of the overkill (and plain daft) ideas on here....how to fix your issues......

It seems you're sensitive to either superdrol or max lmg...or both. So in future be VERY wary what you take. Also - when you start a cycle of anything have EVERYTHING you need in hand from the word go...but then I guess you've worked all that out.

Firstly - if you do nothing...take no compounds.....you will recover. It may take a couple of weeks, it may take a couple of months..it's impossible to tell...but it will happen. One cycle of t-bullets is highly unlikely to destroy your nuts forever. Obviously this isn't an ideal and you want things back on track as soon as possible. Plus of course...you presumably want to maintain your gains made whilst on cycle?

So you need something to increase natural testosterone production. There are a raft of things that do that, by different mechanisms...some appropriate..some not. That's really all you need though....unless you're experiencing early signs of gyno I would avoid nolva completely on this occassion. Superdrol is an enormously powerful compound but still...it doesn't compare to injectable testosterone for shut down. So you shouldn't need to use the same aggressive regimes for PCT. But again - it's really only bloodwork that will determine things like that. Anyone using AAS should eb gettign bloodwork...especially given that a fair proportion of both street level AAS and OTC anabolics do not contain what they say they do at the dose they say. Unless you're getting it from a source within a pharma company you have no way of knowing what's in it....and I've seen more than enough forensic analyses now to make me highly dubious of all street levels and OTC gear. And that includes stuff that was supposedly "the good stuff" from reputable dealers.

I'm not going to suggest actual compounds or doses...especially not in an open forum...sadly I have constraints that won't allow me to do that. But contact me through PM and we'll talk through your stuff and get it sorted. I'll need to know how old your are, what else you've done besides t-bullets and roughly where in the country you are...I may be able to reccomend somewhere discreet to get things checked out.

The bottom line though...is don't panic. Theoretically, the worst case scenario at this stage is reduced libido for an indeterminate period and possible loss of any lean mass or strength gains made on cycle.

PS: My apologies for the rant...but nolva, clomid, armoasin and proviron all carry side-effects and sometimes quiter serious ones. Intelligent hormonal manipulation is a tricky balancing act - The "chuck some....*insert name of anti-e or serm or...* in there too" school of thought is irresponsible and ill-informed and likely to cause more problems than it solves. None of these compounds are benign and all are very powerful chemicals indeed. Which is not to say you shouldn't use them...but you should be very aware of potential problems before you do.


----------



## expletive

Very informative


----------



## C.Hill

Excellent post^ reps


----------



## ba baracuss

kuju said:


> Jesus christ......talk about overdoing things!!
> 
> Ok -first things first i'll set my stall out - I study the use of performance and image enhancing drugs for a living and have done so for more years than I can be bothered remembering. I am utterly immersed in this field so I know what i'm talking about. Sorry...that all sounds a bit "hey look at me i'm amazing blah blah". REALLY not meant that way at all....I just needed to establish where I get my information from...ie: clinical research and of course the experience of working with bodybuilders and other strength athletes for many years.
> 
> So...on to your issue. Firstly an aggressive regime of nolva and clomid combined after at best 4 weeks of t bullets is potentially a VERY bad idea. You are likely to cause more problems than you solve...not least of which would be rebound gyno. I will never understand why people suggest the kind of PCT regimes usually reserved for 10+ weeks of injectable testosterones at much higher doses than you would use things like superdrol for. It's overkill, it has no basis in science and it's just fvcking wrong.
> 
> To put this in perspective - how shut down you are depends on a variety of factors and ongoing work with people using AAS has shown that some people can be shut down for months after they finish their normal PCT....or recovered in a very short time. Its very personal, it's highly variable and without bloodwork you have NO IDEA how shut down you are. You can't "feel it". Yes you can see obvious signs sometimes but that just shows you are shut down..not how much or how long it's likely to last. Your PCT should be appropriate to your needs...not some blindly followed regime posted and re-posted in internet forums.
> 
> So - let's go back to the beginning.......obviously you've realised you should have done your homework better before taking a steroid (superdrol is not a prohormone). So moving on from that:
> 
> What you took contained two compounds; SUperdrol and Max LMG (trade names). Superdrol is a steroid, it's a di-methylated version of Masteron in fact...and as such cannot aromatise to oestrogen, nor is it progestinal. That means elevated estrogen levels are HIGHLY unlikely from superdrol. Equally - max-lmg...often referred to as a "wet" compound because of the nature of the gains you get on it (ie includes water retention) is a progestin. So again - elevated oestrogen is highly unlikely. This doesn't mean that neither of these compounds can give you gyno; there are a number of mechanisms by which gyno can be induced and not all of them are fully understood. However...the chances of it being due to elevated oestrogen levels are distinctly unlikely so whoever suggested you were full of oestrogen is probably off the mark. If it happens it's more likely to be due to the progestin...in which case anti-e's are pointless.
> 
> More importantly - using Nolva is then a waste of time...if there is no elevated oestrogen - what exactly is a SERM going to block? (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator...blocks the action of estrogen at the cellular level). Clomid *could* be useful here...but again - neither compound is going to deal with progestinal side-effects.
> 
> I saw a suggestion to throw some aromasin and proviron in there too.........NO!!! Aromasin can cause it's own problems and is only there to deal with estrogen....which is unlikely to be an issue - so avoid it in this instance. Proviron is basically a pure androgen - yes it'll get your libido back up whilst you're on it but then you have a mess of androgen side-effects to deal with. The idea of taking nolva. clomid, aromasin and proviron as PCT for 4 weeks of superdrol is one of the most ridiculous solutions i've ever heard...and that's saying something. It's openign the door to a raft of problems you don't need and probably won't solve your issue!
> 
> Ok - so enough whining about some of the overkill (and plain daft) ideas on here....how to fix your issues......
> 
> It seems you're sensitive to either superdrol or max lmg...or both. So in future be VERY wary what you take. Also - when you start a cycle of anything have EVERYTHING you need in hand from the word go...but then I guess you've worked all that out.
> 
> Firstly - if you do nothing...take no compounds.....you will recover. It may take a couple of weeks, it may take a couple of months..it's impossible to tell...but it will happen. One cycle of t-bullets is highly unlikely to destroy your nuts forever. Obviously this isn't an ideal and you want things back on track as soon as possible. Plus of course...you presumably want to maintain your gains made whilst on cycle?
> 
> So you need something to increase natural testosterone production. There are a raft of things that do that, by different mechanisms...some appropriate..some not. That's really all you need though....unless you're experiencing early signs of gyno I would avoid nolva completely on this occassion. Superdrol is an enormously powerful compound but still...it doesn't compare to injectable testosterone for shut down. So you shouldn't need to use the same aggressive regimes for PCT. But again - it's really only bloodwork that will determine things like that. Anyone using AAS should eb gettign bloodwork...especially given that a fair proportion of both street level AAS and OTC anabolics do not contain what they say they do at the dose they say. Unless you're getting it from a source within a pharma company you have no way of knowing what's in it....and I've seen more than enough forensic analyses now to make me highly dubious of all street levels and OTC gear. And that includes stuff that was supposedly "the good stuff" from reputable dealers.
> 
> I'm not going to suggest actual compounds or doses...especially not in an open forum...sadly I have constraints that won't allow me to do that. But contact me through PM and we'll talk through your stuff and get it sorted. I'll need to know how old your are, what else you've done besides t-bullets and roughly where in the country you are...I may be able to reccomend somewhere discreet to get things checked out.
> 
> The bottom line though...is don't panic. Theoretically, the worst case scenario at this stage is reduced libido for an indeterminate period and possible loss of any lean mass or strength gains made on cycle.
> 
> PS: My apologies for the rant...but nolva, clomid, armoasin and proviron all carry side-effects and sometimes quiter serious ones. Intelligent hormonal manipulation is a tricky balancing act - The "chuck some....*insert name of anti-e or serm or...* in there too" school of thought is irresponsible and ill-informed and likely to cause more problems than it solves. None of these compounds are benign and all are very powerful chemicals indeed. Which is not to say you shouldn't use them...but you should be very aware of potential problems before you do.


Sorry but I'm struggling to agree with much of that long winded rant.

The bottom line is that he is shut down. That is why clomid and nolva have been recommended. It's about restarting his HPTA.

Blood work isn't a bad idea, sure, but not essential.

Please explain to us mere mortals from your ivory tower why proviron is a bad idea, and also aromasin - both of which are mild compounds and IMO can only help.


----------



## richycrich

Kuju, I do not appear to be able to use the pm function, is it because I am a newb?

As well as the tbullets I was also using (pre workout) ultraforce might and muscle extreme tabs.

I am 35, weigh 76k, have good blood pressure and no health issues.

At this stage I really am not bothered about keeping gains because I am a little freaked out.

My balls have shrunk, my libido is 0, getting a hard on is not easy and keeping it is near impossible, my spooge does not look at all normal and I doubt there are any active swimmers in it.

I feel flabby and seem to have put on half a stone since stopping the bullets. Also my skin isnt the slightest bit oily anymore and the spots i was getting have stopped. Also got no energy or will to work out, am 5 pull ups short of what I was doing and dont regain energy like I was.

From what I can gather I am shut down. I have the natural stuff already, extemes 'reload' just arrived and there is clomid and nolva on the way. I dont want to take the clomid or nolva if I dont need to. Will the 'reload' be any help? what else?


----------



## C.Hill

Nolva and clomid are very effective at getting your hpta back 'online'.


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## richycrich

This is what is in extremes reload btw, they claim it can stand alone as pct

Zinc (Zinc Asparte) 10mg

Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol)

Reload (proprietary blend)

Bulbine Natalensis (7:1 Stems), Fenugreek Seeds (20% protodioscin), Resveratol (50% std), tongkat ali extract, milk thistle (80%)

Other Ingredients: Rice Flower, magnesium stearate, silicon dioxide, gelatin (capsule), FD&C Red #3, Yellow #6


----------



## richycrich

C.Hill said:


> Nolva and clomid are very effective at getting your hpta back 'online'.


well, I have 2 weeks until they get here so unless the natural stuff or the reload works in that time then we will soon find out.

This is fairly common right or should I be as freaked out as I am?


----------



## ba baracuss

richycrich said:


> well, I have 2 weeks until they get here so unless the natural stuff or the reload works in that time then we will soon find out.
> 
> This is fairly common right or should I be as freaked out as I am?


Being shutdown, or suppressed at least, is common mate, yes.

Perhaps our condescending self-appointed expert who thinks clomid and nolva is 'fvcking wrong' can share his ideas with us all, instead of just offering to keep his own suggestions secret and telling us we're all wrong.

How old are you btw? The younger you are, generally the better/quicker you should recover, although of course everyone is different. Hopefully the reload will help you. Maybe someone who has used it can comment.


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## C.Hill

I know pscarb has used reload for pct after an injectible cycle, might be worth pm'ing him?


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## flinty90

C.Hill said:


> Excellent post^ reps


ahh i see that your here again with your gang mate lol...


----------



## C.Hill

Good job, otherwise we'd all have bítch tits like you 

Nah in all seriousness I don't push anyone into running pct, but, I have been shut down from superdrol before and it wasn't nice, same as the other members posting in this thread, all because I didn't run pct.

Now, I've ran no pct, just nolva, and nolva/clomid combined and the latter worked amazing for me, felt great throughout pct, strength hardly dropped, no itchy nips, balls dangling, full of spunk, in my 'opinion' it's the way to go.


----------



## kuju

ba baracuss said:


> Sorry but I'm struggling to agree with much of that long winded rant.
> 
> The bottom line is that he is shut down. That is why clomid and nolva have been recommended. It's about restarting his HPTA.
> 
> Blood work isn't a bad idea, sure, but not essential.
> 
> Please explain to us mere mortals from your ivory tower why proviron is a bad idea, and also aromasin - both of which are mild compounds and IMO can only help.


Ok - firstly I apologise if the rant came across as high handed but frankly the pct protocols i've seen for recovery from 4 weeks of superdrol tend to be excessive at best. Yes its a steorid, yes it will shut you down.....but 4 weeks of cycle followed by 4 weeks of at least 2 if not 4 compounds?. Seriously? Given that's the same process many use for long cycles of injectables it doesn't make sense. Length of cycle is key in determining level of shut down.

Secondly - yes he needs to get hpta back online but both nolva and clomid carry side effects - ALL of these drugs carry side effects....so why add more to an existing problem if there are alternatives? Yes nolva and clomid can help.....but there are other ways.

I have a real problem with arbitrary pct regimes put out by people who have no idea what th oriinal compound used actually was. We assume it's what's on teh label but I have a wealth of forensic reports that show many things are NOT what they say they are so it can't be taken as a given. We also don't know his pre-existing physiological state so we don't know what else could be affecting him. The symptoms he's laid out in the post above seem to have come on very quickly don't you think? I suspect there's stuff going on here we're not aware of and that's why I suggested blood work. It's not just "not a bad idea"..given everything i've seen working with bodybuilders (at street level...not in an ivory tower) I would say it IS essential. There are guys I know who are still surpressed 3 months after finishing their cycle and they followed the traditional pct with genuine nolva and clomid. But it hasn't restarted them. I also know guys who have got back on track in a few weeks with minimal pct. It's not something you can judge without solid information and certainly not in a forum thread.

Proviron and aromasin are NOT "mild". Proviron is pure androgen and as such can cause a raft of androgen related problems...enlarged prostate, hair loss, etc etc etc. Plus - it can also cause shut down. Aromasin is a suicidal AI which..whilst it's better than letro in many ways - can still cause unintended sides. For instance - overdoing it reduces estrogen too much and that is NOT a good thing. Doing aromasin or letro with nolva will be a slight waste of money as the nolva reduces blood plasma levels of both compounds....so what do people do? Take more. Again - not a good thing. Why pack your body full of chemcials to deal with a problem you ASSUME is estrogen related when it may not be? Given that neither ocmpound in t-bullets...assuming it did contain what it says - will aromatise or raise estrogen levels - then what is the AI fighting exactly?

In short - it's throwing a bunch of chemicals...none of which are "mild" ..into the body to deal with things that we're just guessing at. That's why I suggest blood work.

DOn't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting these compounds don't have value in the right situation....i'm not condemning their use generally....i'm suggesting that he finds out what's actually going on in his body first. Which seems fairly sensible to me.....

What I am condemning is blanket arbitrary suggestions for a raft of compounds when we don't actually know (a) what he's really taken and ( B) anything about his physiological state before or now.


----------



## kuju

ba baracuss said:


> Being shutdown, or suppressed at least, is common mate, yes.
> 
> Perhaps our condescending self-appointed expert who thinks clomid and nolva is 'fvcking wrong' can share his ideas with us all, instead of just offering to keep his own suggestions secret and telling us we're all wrong.
> 
> How old are you btw? The younger you are, generally the better/quicker you should recover, although of course everyone is different. Hopefully the reload will help you. Maybe someone who has used it can comment.


Who said I was an expert..or indeed putting myself forward as one? Experienced yes - expert? No.


----------



## flinty90

C.Hill said:


> *Good job, otherwise we'd all have bítch tits like you *
> 
> Nah in all seriousness I don't push anyone into running pct, but, I have been shut down from superdrol before and it wasn't nice, same as the other members posting in this thread, all because I didn't run pct.
> 
> Now, I've ran no pct, just nolva, and nolva/clomid combined and the latter worked amazing for me, felt great throughout pct, strength hardly dropped, no itchy nips, balls dangling, full of spunk, in my 'opinion' it's the way to go.


yeah keep dreaming son X


----------



## C.Hill

kuju said:


> Ok - firstly I apologise if the rant came across as high handed but frankly the pct protocols i've seen for recovery from 4 weeks of superdrol tend to be excessive at best. Yes its a steorid, yes it will shut you down.....but 4 weeks of cycle followed by 4 weeks of at least 2 if not 4 compounds?. Seriously? Given that's the same process many use for long cycles of injectables it doesn't make sense. Length of cycle is key in determining level of shut down.
> 
> Secondly - yes he needs to get hpta back online but both nolva and clomid carry side effects - ALL of these drugs carry side effects....so why add more to an existing problem if there are alternatives? Yes nolva and clomid can help.....but there are other ways.
> 
> I have a real problem with arbitrary pct regimes put out by people who have no idea what th oriinal compound used actually was. We assume it's what's on teh label but I have a wealth of forensic reports that show many things are NOT what they say they are so it can't be taken as a given. We also don't know his pre-existing physiological state so we don't know what else could be affecting him. The symptoms he's laid out in the post above seem to have come on very quickly don't you think? I suspect there's stuff going on here we're not aware of and that's why I suggested blood work. It's not just "not a bad idea"..given everything i've seen working with bodybuilders (at street level...not in an ivory tower) I would say it IS essential. There are guys I know who are still surpressed 3 months after finishing their cycle and they followed the traditional pct with genuine nolva and clomid. But it hasn't restarted them. I also know guys who have got back on track in a few weeks with minimal pct. It's not something you can judge without solid information and certainly not in a forum thread.
> 
> Proviron and aromasin are NOT "mild". Proviron is pure androgen and as such can cause a raft of androgen related problems...enlarged prostate, hair loss, etc etc etc. Plus - it can also cause shut down. Aromasin is a suicidal AI which..whilst it's better than letro in many ways - can still cause unintended sides. For instance - overdoing it reduces estrogen too much and that is NOT a good thing. Doing aromasin or letro with nolva will be a slight waste of money as the nolva reduces blood plasma levels of both compounds....so what do people do? Take more. Again - not a good thing. Why pack your body full of chemcials to deal with a problem you ASSUME is estrogen related when it may not be? Given that neither ocmpound in t-bullets...assuming it did contain what it says - will aromatise or raise estrogen levels - then what is the AI fighting exactly?
> 
> In short - it's throwing a bunch of chemicals...none of which are "mild" ..into the body to deal with things that we're just guessing at. That's why I suggest blood work.
> 
> DOn't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting these compounds don't have value in the right situation....i'm not condemning their use generally....i'm suggesting that he finds out what's actually going on in his body first. Which seems fairly sensible to me.....
> 
> What I am condemning is blanket arbitrary suggestions for a raft of compounds when we don't actually know (a) what he's really taken and ( B) anything about his physiological state before or now.


So if blood tests came back showing he was shut down, what would you suggest after a 4 week superdrol cycle?

Or does it depend on the level of shutdown?


----------



## kuju

richycrich said:


> This is what is in extremes reload btw, they claim it can stand alone as pct
> 
> Zinc (Zinc Asparte) 10mg
> 
> Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol)
> 
> Reload (proprietary blend)
> 
> Bulbine Natalensis (7:1 Stems), Fenugreek Seeds (20% protodioscin), Resveratol (50% std), tongkat ali extract, milk thistle (80%)
> 
> Other Ingredients: Rice Flower, magnesium stearate, silicon dioxide, gelatin (capsule), FD&C Red #3, Yellow #6


The key stuff in there is the bulbine and the resveratrol. The bulbine does seem to be effective....hard to tell from mainly anecdotal reports but certainly there's lots of those showing promise. There are a wealth of reports of that and Triazole working well together to manage pct....I know there's a lot of people who are very anti OTC pct products but some are actually effective. Admittedly for shut down I'd choose appropriate pharmaceutical products first..btu that doesn't mean all the otc stuff is garbage. I'll stress again that I'm not comdemning nolva and clomid as pct....it's a combination that's worked well for many people for many years. What i'm against is an abritrary regime, with doses handed down through forums, being advised for people when there are so many variables that can affect the outcome.

You do seem to be suffering some serious side effects.....but the most crucial thing to bear in mind is that, worst case scenario; your body will almost certainly recover naturally given time. So don't get too freaked out, it's unlikely you've done permanent damage. However....one important question.... are you getting any increased sensitivity/pain/itching round your nipples? (The things we ask in forums..............  ) ) Just curious.....

Get on the bulbine in reload, it's a start. Get some Triazole or something similar (ie: Esto Supress) as an add on whilst you're waiting for your nolva etc. Reservatrol has been shown to be very effective at estrogen management (management not surpression...estrogen is important) but orally it's not that effective. It's not very bio-available as an oral product but used topically it seems to work well.

Tongkat ali increses libido but not necessarily by raising testosterone....libido is a tricky beast and lots of things can affect it besides testoserone levels.

Again - bottom line....take a deep breath...you're going to be ok. It may take a wee while but you will be. Your body likes balance...you took something that threw that balance out...now your body is trying to get that balance back. It will. The human body is an amazing machine and ultimately it has a much better idea of how to make itself work than we do...and it's very, very, good at it.


----------



## kuju

C.Hill said:


> So if blood tests came back showing he was shut down, what would you suggest after a 4 week superdrol cycle?
> 
> Or does it depend on the level of shutdown?


Well what he';s said so far suggests he is....but the level of shutdown makes a difference yes. Quite a big difference in fact. I should probably make the point here that the reason I don't generally tell people "Use this...in this dose" is because (a) i'm not a doctor ( B) I could lose my job! and most importantly - © I don't klnow if what they take is what they think it is...and therefore I could suggest "Take X" only to find out it wasn't X and actually it made things worse...or they had other things going on that affected the outcome....or...or...or......

I don't have any problem with the idea of nolva and clomid per se, Just the idea of aggressive regimes of anti estrogens that could cause more problems. Estrogen is crucial for muscle growth, for libido, for a range of other functions. Overdoing the supression of it can cause as many problems as it solved. But i'm impressed by the growing body of evidence around treating hypogonadal males with nolva/clomid/hcg. But shut down isn't necessarily the same thing as being genuinely hypogonadal....

I will hold my hands up and admit I was overly ranting earlier........and I apologise for that, and for coming across as arrogant if that was the case......but I am exasperated by the sheer volume of pct protocols I see with no apparent clear thought behind them. Aromasin and proviron are also seemingly great products in the right context.....but the right context is judged by knowledge of what state your in, not what you think you took.

I've seen a LOT of bloodwork results over the past year..that's whay I say it's essential. The results have been..worrying. People on cycle ...who it turns out weren't. People thinking they're back online..when they're not. Etc etc.

For anyone near manchester i'd recommend seeing Gary Beeny at Ancoats Primary Care needle exchange. An appointment based steroid clinic with bloodwork provided by a guy who knows his stuff and can properly interpret results.

The crucial point for me is that absolutely NONE of the performance and image enhancing drugs commonly used are mild or benign. Maybe relative to each other but otherwise these are powerful compounds and what we do with them is a fine balancing act which can easily go very wrong. Why risk it? See what's actually happenign with your body and you'll get better results with less problems....seems sensible to me.


----------



## Fatstuff

errrrmmm..... ur all diverting away from the whole point of this thread, this is one of the funniest threads on here and ur all being serious, shame on you!!


----------



## C.Hill

Someone came along with a serious problem, were trying to help.


----------



## richycrich

Kuju.....To answer and ask your posts....

Not sure the symptoms came on fast or not tbh, what I can tell you is that I finished the bullets on a thursday, felt same friday, still horny and hard saturday, bit tired sunday, monday was tired - tried to have morning sex but gave up on it, got some in the afternoon but there was a massive difference from how things had been. Since then I have noticed my balls are smaller, can barely get a hard on and cant keep it long. I am also low on energy, strength, the will to work out.

I havent got itchy tits but have noticed that they feel flabby, not sure if it is fat or water but I seem to have put on half a stone over the weekend to now (wasnt eating great tbh).

So, I have the reload - you think it will serve as a pct like they claim?

I have clomid and nolva inbound from the states, if you dont like the standard pct for a months course of bullets what should I do with them? I ordered 50mg clomids and 20mg nolva btw.

Btw the reload came this afternoon and I took two - defo feel better, got some energy, want to do some work and feeling a bit more angry instead of low.


----------



## richycrich

C.Hill said:


> Someone came along with a serious problem, were trying to help.


and I appreciate it greatly.

it is all well and good telling people to research but the internet is full of ****. I thought I had researched this enough before getting the bullets but mostly because everyone said they were good, worked well, no sides etc etc. Didnt seem like there was a need to dig since it was otc and there were no red flags coming up.

The best place to get at the truth and get real answers and advice is places like this from guys that know wtf they are talking about and have experience - rather than the internet when stuff can be bolox or written by the parent company.

btw - the reload came and i feel better on it, not sure if it will start me up again but feeling better has to be a start. I came across a few posts about reload and people using it as stand alone pct doing month on month off with bullets but am not sure they can be trusted tbh. How long has reload been out?


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory

Lol @ Kuju.

Poo-poo's everyone else's advice yet fails to offer up any alternatives of his own.

The best he can come up with is overpriced, marginally effective OTC products like bulbine/triazole etc.

For all the flowery language and long-winded posts there seems to be very little substance to his posts.

I'd go with Nolva/clomid maybe a bit of proviron. Tried and tested. Been working for people for donkeys years.


----------



## kuju

*sigh* I give up.......... actually I give up after I lay out my points agin in a simpler form so people who clearly skipped through it actually get my position:

1. Nolva and clomid are perfectly fine - I have no problem with them for PCT..there's a reason they're commonly used. Same applies to aromasin and proviron.

2. My issue is with the regimes offered....doing teh same pct for a 4 week superdrol cycle as you would use for a 10-12 week heavy injectable cycle is overkill

3. Overdoing nolva and clomid can cause their own problems - they are not mild drugs....

4. Putting forward the idea that some of these drugs are "mild" is nonsense. Maybe relatively speaking but as a blanket rule its dangerous advice. For me, in my health state - aspirin in moderation is a mild drug...but when Bruce lee took one it fvcking killed him. "Mild" is subjective and not helpful.

5. To gain that weight in that short a space of time and to suffer those issues that quickly suggests to me that the OP (for this conversation) is experiencing an extreme reaction - and we have no idea why. We odn't know for certain what he took or his existing health state and as such blanket advice is potentially danmaging.

6. Whatever is going on he CLEARLY is highly sensitive to androgens...and yet people are suggesting he take a pure androgen (proviron) as pct??? Seriously?!!

7. There is something not right here so i'm suggesting....and I appreciate this sounds like a dumb idea to some fo you...that he goes and gets some bloodwork done to find out whats ACTUALLY HAPPENING - so he can tailor the pct appropriately rather than slinging double the number of chemicals he took in the first place in the blind hope that it fixes things without further issue.

8. If you have hard evidence that bulbine and triazole are completely ineffective then please share it so people can avoid them. Otherwise...how do you know they're crappy and odn't work? Where's your evidence? Have you even looked at the main ingredient in esto supress? I have...by analysis not by label....but poor nomenclature aside the label seems to be telling the truth (of course that may not be the case with every batch). Have a look.....

9. I'm not suggesting specific drugs or regimes because there is clearly something wrong and I'm not about to suggest aggressive regimes of cancer treatments like nolva and clomid withotu being sure it won't cause more problems. Surely that's a more responsible line to take?

Ok - so...happy now? I'm not saying those regimes are wrong per se - i'm saying take a little time to find out what's going on and take appropriate action. If he is that sensitive to the chemicals he's already taken how can you be 100% sure he won't have an adverse reaction to your suggested regimes?

And on that note............ i'm out. Thank you for reminding me why I don't come here very often anymore.


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## ba baracuss

kuju said:


> Ok - firstly I apologise if the rant came across as high handed but frankly the pct protocols i've seen for recovery from 4 weeks of superdrol tend to be excessive at best. Yes its a steorid, yes it will shut you down.....but 4 weeks of cycle followed by 4 weeks of at least 2 if not 4 compounds?. Seriously? Given that's the same process many use for long cycles of injectables it doesn't make sense. *Length of cycle is key in determining level of shut down.*
> 
> Not necessarily. The compound and dose used is equally relevant. 4 weeks of high dose tren is going to be more suppressive than 4 weeks of low dose anavar. Superdrol is also known as being pretty damn suppressive.
> 
> Secondly - yes he needs to get hpta back online but both nolva and clomid carry side effects - ALL of these drugs carry side effects....so why add more to an existing problem if there are alternatives? Yes nolva and clomid can help.....*but there are other ways.*What are they then?
> 
> I have a real problem with arbitrary pct regimes put out by people who have no idea what th oriinal compound used actually was. We assume it's what's on teh label but I have a wealth of forensic reports that show many things are NOT what they say they are so it can't be taken as a given. We also don't know his pre-existing physiological state so we don't know what else could be affecting him. The symptoms he's laid out in the post above seem to have come on very quickly don't you think? I suspect there's stuff going on here we're not aware of and that's why I suggested blood work. It's not just "not a bad idea"..given everything i've seen working with bodybuilders (at street level...not in an ivory tower) *I would say it IS essential*. There are guys I know who are still surpressed 3 months after finishing their cycle and they followed the traditional pct with genuine nolva and clomid. But it hasn't restarted them. I also know guys who have got back on track in a few weeks with minimal pct. It's not something you can judge without solid information and certainly not in a forum thread.
> 
> It's not essential. Thousands of people don't have blood work done after every cycle and recover fine. I certainly wouldn't say it's a bad idea either, though. The rather obvious point you don't seem to be grasping, is that this IS a forum thread. Therefore we have given him 'blanket advice'. I haven't seen any arbritary PCT advice given either - I haven't suggested dosage of anything for a start, which needs to be tailored to what has been taken.
> 
> Proviron and aromasin are NOT "mild". Proviron is pure androgen and as such can cause a raft of androgen related problems...enlarged prostate, hair loss, etc etc etc. Plus - it can also cause shut down. Aromasin is a suicidal AI which..whilst it's better than letro in many ways - can still cause unintended sides. For instance - overdoing it reduces estrogen too much and that is NOT a good thing. Doing aromasin or letro with nolva will be a slight waste of money as the nolva reduces blood plasma levels of both compounds....so what do people do? Take more. Again - not a good thing. Why pack your body full of chemcials to deal with a problem you ASSUME is estrogen related when it may not be? Given that neither ocmpound in t-bullets...assuming it did contain what it says - will aromatise or raise estrogen levels - then what is the AI fighting exactly?
> 
> You need a huge dose of proviron to cause any degree of shutdown. Low doses aren't going to do that. Also, I'm talking about short term usage while he recovers, so prostate enlargement isn't an issue. Some on here will also argue that it doesn't cause hairloss either.
> 
> You don't need to take more AI when using nolva. There was a study put up the other day confirming this - I myself was corrected so I suggest you do some more research. As for the aromasin, I know of several people far more knowledgeable than you who recommend and use it in PCT. Like proviron, it binds SHBG leaving more free test. Also, estrogen is highly suppressive to the HPTA so limiting it will help it recover more quickly, and also reduce how crap he feels from an imbalance of T to E. Essentially, the little test he is producing is going to be pounced on by aromatase and converted into E - not good. It also won't rebound because of it's suicidal nature.
> 
> In short - it's throwing a bunch of chemicals...none of which are "mild" ..into the body to deal with things that we're just guessing at. That's why I suggest blood work.
> 
> DOn't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting these compounds don't have value in the right situation....i'm not condemning their use generally....i'm suggesting that he finds out what's actually going on in his body first. Which seems fairly sensible to me.....
> 
> What I am condemning is blanket arbitrary suggestions for a raft of compounds when we don't actually know (a) what he's really taken and ( B) anything about his physiological state before or now.


How is blood work going to determine what he's taken? Presumably it lists the ingredients on the tub, otherwise it would need to be lab tested if you don't trust that, not a blood test. And, how would bloods determine levels of anything before he started the t bullets?


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## m118

kuju said:


> Ok - firstly I apologise if the rant came across as high handed but frankly the pct protocols i've seen for recovery from 4 weeks of superdrol tend to be excessive at best. Yes its a steorid, yes it will shut you down.....but 4 weeks of cycle followed by 4 weeks of at least 2 if not 4 compounds?. Seriously? Given that's the same process many use for long cycles of injectables it doesn't make sense.* Length of cycle is key in determining level of shut down. *
> 
> Secondly - yes he needs to get hpta back online but both nolva and clomid carry side effects -* ALL of these drugs carry side effects*....so why add more to an existing problem if there are alternatives? *Yes nolva and clomid can help.....but there are other ways.*
> 
> I have a real problem with arbitrary pct regimes put out by people who have no idea what th oriinal compound used actually was. We assume it's what's on *teh label *but I have a wealth of forensic reports that show many things are NOT what they say they are so it can't be taken as a given. We also don't know his pre-existing physiological state so we don't know what else could be affecting him. The symptoms he's laid out in the post above seem to have come on very quickly don't you think? I suspect there's stuff going on here we're not aware of and that's why I suggested blood work. *It's not just "not a bad idea"..given everything i've seen working with bodybuilders (at street level...not in an ivory tower) I would say it IS essential. There are guys I know who are still surpressed 3 months after finishing their cycle and they followed the traditional pct with genuine nolva and clomid. But it hasn't restarted them.* I also know guys who have got back on track in a few weeks with minimal pct. It's not something you can judge without solid information and certainly not in a forum thread.
> 
> Proviron and aromasin are NOT "mild". Proviron is pure androgen and as such can cause a raft of androgen related problems...enlarged prostate, hair loss, etc etc etc. Plus - it can also cause shut down. Aromasin is a suicidal AI which..whilst it's better than letro in many ways - can still cause unintended sides. For instance - *overdoing it reduces estrogen too much and that is NOT a good thing.* Doing aromasin or letro with nolva will be a slight waste of money as the nolva reduces blood plasma levels of both compounds....so what do people do? Take more. Again - not a good thing. Why pack your body full of chemcials to deal with a problem you ASSUME is estrogen related when it may not be? Given that neither ocmpound in t-bullets...assuming it did contain what it says - will aromatise or raise estrogen levels - then what is the AI fighting exactly?
> 
> In short - it's throwing a bunch of chemicals...none of which are "mild" ..into the body to deal with things that we're just guessing at. That's why I suggest blood work.
> 
> DOn't get me wrong, i'm not suggesting these compounds don't have value in the right situation....i'm not condemning their use generally....i'm suggesting that he finds out what's actually going on in his body first. Which seems fairly sensible to me.....
> 
> What I am condemning is blanket arbitrary suggestions for a raft of compounds when we don't actually know (a) what he's really taken and ( B) anything about his physiological state before or now.


1: I completely agree that length of cycle is a huge determanent of suppression, however, equally as important is what is run and at what dose. a 6 week cycle of anavar at 100mg per day compared with just 20mg of SD for 6 weeks will contrast greatly.

2: There are other ways, eg no pct, AI, otc testbooster etc... however, I think its fair to say that the risks from running 3-4 weeks of a serm is rather minimal when you consider that women run tamoxifen for 20mg/day for 3 years+ and clomid has been studied in eugonadal men for months with no adverse side effects reported.

3: I agree , we have to put a certain amount of trust in our manufacturers whether it be otc or not. there are many companies though who do 3rd party testing , eg CEL.

4: Some people don't recover, but did these people use HCG on cycle? and how long/heavy was their cycle? I'm sure many who've run 12+ weeks at high doses with no HCG (or even with) have been severely shutdown, but others are able to carry on without seemingly needing any PCT. Biological variation is a huge factor here which is why some drugs work for some and not others. I think the point here is that the serm/serm stack is tried and tested regime for PCT after steroid use. Plenty of bloods around on the google to support this.

5: Agreed, if oestrogen is crushed it is not beneficial physiologically or mentally.

6: I remember either ausbuilt or pscarb using proviron in their PCTs

7: the ingredients in T bullets are SD and MLMG. MLMG is a powerful but also tricky steroid IIRC because of its progesterone activity which is why many prefer to run clomid for PCT instead of or as well as tamoxifen


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## m118

kuju said:


> *sigh* I give up.......... actually I give up after I lay out my points agin in a simpler form so people who clearly skipped through it actually get my position:
> 
> *
> 1. Nolva and clomid are perfectly fine - I have no problem with them for PCT..there's a reason they're commonly used.* Same applies to aromasin and proviron.
> 
> 2. My issue is with the regimes offered....doing teh same pct for a *4 week superdrol cycle as you would use for a 10-12 week heavy injectable cycle is overkill*
> 
> 3. Overdoing nolva and clomid can cause their own problems - they are not mild drugs....
> 
> 4. *Putting forward the idea that some of these drugs are "mild" is nonsense*. Maybe relatively speaking but as a blanket rule its dangerous advice. For me, in my health state - aspirin in moderation is a mild drug...but when Bruce lee took one it fvcking killed him. "*Mild" is subjective and not helpful.*
> 
> 5. To gain that weight in that short a space of time and to suffer those issues that quickly suggests to me that the OP (for this conversation) is experiencing an extreme reaction - and we have no idea why. We odn't know for certain what he took or his existing health state and as such blanket advice is potentially danmaging.
> 
> 6. Whatever is going on he CLEARLY is highly sensitive to androgens...and yet people are suggesting he take a pure androgen (proviron) as pct??? Seriously?!!
> 
> 7. There is something not right here so i'm suggesting....and I appreciate this sounds like a dumb idea to some fo you...that he goes and gets some bloodwork done to find out whats ACTUALLY HAPPENING - so he can tailor the pct appropriately rather than slinging double the number of chemicals he took in the first place in the blind hope that it fixes things without further issue.
> 
> 8. If you have hard evidence that bulbine and triazole are completely ineffective then please share it so people can avoid them. Otherwise...how do you know they're crappy and odn't work? Where's your evidence? Have you even looked at the main ingredient in esto supress? *I have...by analysis not by label....but poor nomenclature aside the label seems to be telling the truth (of course that may not be the case with every batch). Have a look.....*
> 
> 9. I'm not suggesting specific drugs or regimes because there is clearly something wrong and I'm not about to suggest aggressive regimes of *cancer treatments like nolva and clomid *withotu being sure it won't cause more problems. Surely that's a more responsible line to take?
> 
> Ok - so...happy now? I'm not saying those regimes are wrong per se - i'm saying take a little time to find out what's going on and take appropriate action. If he is that sensitive to the chemicals he's already taken how can you be 100% sure he won't have an adverse reaction to your suggested regimes?
> 
> And on that note............ i'm out. Thank you for reminding me why I don't come here very often anymore.


1: depends on the dose IMO. if you run a 4 week cycle at 10mg/day compared with 30mg/day for the same time then shutdown will be considerably different when you consider the potency of superdrol

2: agreed, tamox and clomid stack well.

3: depends on the context. For example, if we're in a forum discussing steroids then based on the wealth of evidence available, it would be fair to say that anavar is mild. there are many studies showing its effects on the hpta, cholesteorl etc... and even some with women using it too with no problems

4: what is the active ingredient in esto suppress? I think the ingredient is an abbreviated version of tamoxifen but it doesnt make sense.

5: theyre not just cancer treatments, clomiphene for example is widely used in both female and male fertility clinics to great effect.


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## Sionnach

<3


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## Andy Dee

rippedgreg said:


> <3


thats some good info right there, keep it coming guys.


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## Sionnach

:stupid:


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