# bulking without carbs



## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

basically i have been on a low carb diet and carb up at weekends and even though i have lost a little size (mostly arms) i look in alot better shape and people have commented about my chest looking alot more defined and so on..

so basically after my holiday im wondering would it be possible to do a bulk with the same sort of formula as the low carbs suits me alot on keeping the fat at bay


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Prodiver advocates that bulking is best by replacing the calories from carbs with good fats.

I've recently lowered my carbs and upped my fats to make up the clas and it is giving me a leaner look and not feeling bloated as much.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

No-one got fat from good carb sources.

Eat clean unprocessed carbs - you'll grow better. Carbs are protein sparing - they stop you needing excessive amounts of protein and allow the protein you have to be used for better things - like muscle building


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

ooo i get it mate, so i myt just add 100g oats to my breakfast and maybe some carbs post workout and go from there?


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Eat enough clean carbs to keep your energy levels up and any excess carbs will be stored as body fat


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

300g protein / 200g carbs / 150g Fat

3350 cals -


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

54und3r5 said:


> 300g protein / 200g carbs / 150g Fat
> 
> 3350 cals -


this is a diet, not a bulk


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

martin brown said:


> *No-one got fat from good carb sources. *
> 
> Eat clean unprocessed carbs - you'll grow better. Carbs are protein sparing - they stop you needing excessive amounts of protein and allow the protein you have to be used for better things - like muscle building


Oh yes they did - if they got excess calories from good carbs..!

I think I know what your mean, martin, but fats are protein sparing too - in fact any food which stops any of your protein intake being used for energy.

Paradoxically, carbs are more eaily stored as fat than fat is.

If you limit your carb intake your body will become more efficient at shuttling its fat stores rather than becoming accustomed to being given carbs on demand.

At first you feel more hungry, but soon you don't crave carbs and can go longer between feeds without lack of energy as your fat stores keep you supplied.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> *Oh yes they did - if they got excess calories from good carbs..!*
> 
> I think I know what your mean, martin, but fats are protein sparing too - in fact any food which stops any of your protein intake being used for energy.
> 
> ...


But you can just as easily argue excess protein or fat caused it! The essential amounts of protein and fat are minimal. Most professional athletes have lived very well on 75-85% carb diets and stayed in very good shape.

The day I see someone who got too fat eating veg and brown rice I will give up my job!

Common sense and moderation is key as always


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

Jimmy said:


> this is a diet, not a bulk


What macro's do you consider bulking then matey ?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> Oh yes they did - if they got excess calories from good carbs..!
> 
> I think I know what your mean, martin, but fats are protein sparing too - in fact any food which stops any of your protein intake being used for energy.
> 
> ...


tbh i never agreed with anything you said in the thread on low carb bulking i never gain strength on lower carb and at the end of the day if you aint getting stronger you aint growing


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

martin brown said:


> But you can just as easily argue excess protein or fat caused it! The essential amounts of protein and fat are minimal. Most professional athletes have lived very well on 75-85% carb diets and stayed in very good shape.
> 
> The day I see someone who got too fat eating veg and brown rice I will give up my job!
> 
> Common sense and moderation is key as always


yep!


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

martin brown said:


> But you can just as easily argue excess protein or fat caused it! The essential amounts of protein and fat are minimal. Most professional athletes have lived very well on 75-85% carb diets and stayed in very good shape.
> 
> The day I see someone who got too fat eating veg and brown rice I will give up my job!
> 
> Common sense and moderation is key as always





big_jim_87 said:


> tbh i never agreed with anything you said in the thread on low carb bulking i never gain strength on lower carb and at the end of the day if you aint getting stronger you aint growing


I used to be a mainly carbs guy, following common conventional nutritionists' and bodybuilding nostrums about predominant carbs, moderate protein and low fat. But I regularly felt tired and bloated and made only average gains.

Then I started to learn about the hunter-gatherer diet and the relationship between carb intake and fat storage. As soon as I started eating a highish protein intake, mainly from beef and chicken, not worrying about eating fat and eating not much carbs I felt far fitter and more energised, lost flab easier and made far better gains. And this has been replicated by a number of friends.

If you're eating enough protein and not growing or getting stronger, this can only be because you are using too much of your protein for energy. This means you're not eating sufficent calories from fat or carbs - either will do - and fat has the advantage that unlike carbs it does not promote fat storage as easily. Also you need fats to make your own testosterone and gear work.

People don't get fat easily on veg and brown rice because they are not very energy dense and they can't stuff themselves with much, But if they did eat loads of them and took in excess calories, they'd still be stored as fat.

Contrary to common opinion, fruit is a good source of carbs. It has vitamins and flavonoid anti-oxidants, etc, and fructose doesn't cause a sharp insulin spike. And because fruit provides fast carbs which are not long-lasting they're very easy to regulate and provide an energy boost quickly when it's needed.


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

Prodiver said:


> I used to be a mainly carbs guy, following common conventional nutritionists' and bodybuilding nostrums about predominant carbs, moderate protein and low fat. But I regularly felt tired and bloated and made only average gains.
> 
> Then I started to learn about the hunter-gatherer diet and the relationship between carb intake and fat storage. As soon as I started eating a highish protein intake, mainly from beef and chicken, not worrying about eating fat and eating not much carbs I felt far fitter and more energised, lost flab easier and made far better gains. And this has been replicated by a number of friends.
> 
> ...


Good post Pro,i'm in agreement,however,i realise it's not the answer for everyone,it certainly works for me


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

here we go this debate of fat and carb is been battered to death

at the end of the day you will eat fat or carb if it's too much you will lay down body fat..

eat clean carb monitor your body this way you know what your doing .. good balance diet .. EAT TO GROW muscle not to feed your stomach and taste bud ..

good luck with your bulk


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

thanks everyone, so there is no clear outcome is there, i think i will just have about 200g carbs a day, because i have a active job aswell as the gym, so when are the best times to have carbs, first thing? and post workout?


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## Mbb newlad (Jan 27, 2008)

ive used good complex carb sources alot and have gained too much fat i wish i hadnt used them so much mainly oats and,wholemeal pasta


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

james4d said:


> thanks everyone, so there is no clear outcome is there, i think i will just have about 200g carbs a day, because i have a active job aswell as the gym, so when are the best times to have carbs, first thing? and post workout?


I have experemented with both and even though you can still gain with high fats and low carbs, ive found fats arent as good for energy far as workouts go.


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