# stronglifts/madcow/bill starr/5x5



## Mont87 (Feb 28, 2015)

After a long lay off from training looking to build strength before moving onto a hypertrophy based routine. I read through all the 5x5 programs, starting strength, stronglifts, reg parks 5x5, madcow, etc and then I found this, basically, this workout seems kind of like a mix n match of stronglifts/madcow/bill starr5x5 with a few differences. Firstly, theres no squats 3x week, this workout is a pull/push split, alternating each workout, example:

Week 1

Mon - pull

Wed - push

Fri - pull

Week 2

Mon - push

Wed - pull

Fri - push

Workout A - Pull

Deadlift

Bent over row

Wide grip pull up

Bicep curl - 3 x 8 (add after 12 weeks)

Workout B - Push

Squat

Bench press

Overhead press

Tricep extension - 3 x 8 (add after 12 weeks)

Start with phase one. This means starting with an empty bar and performing 5 sets of 5 adding 5-10% esch workout. Keeping the same weight throughout all 5 sets. After stalling on a exercise for 3 consecutive workouts, deload (reduce weight by 10% and work back up) after deloading on deadlifts or squats twice, switch to phase 2. Again, after stalling for 3 consecutive workouts, deload and continue, after deloading twice on deadlifts or squats again, move to phaze 3. Repeat the process above, finally, after deloading a further 2 times on deadlifts or squats switch to the push/pull 4 day mass building system.

Phase one: 5 x 5 (working sets)

Phase two: 2 x 5 (warm up/ramping) 3 x 5 (working sets)

Phase three: 4 x 5 (warm up/ramping) 1 x 3 (working set) 1 x 8 (lighter back off set)

Looking forward to gaining some strength after a lengthy lay off from training. This 5x5 method looks like a good starting point, any input is greatly appreciated, many thanks.


----------



## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

Why no legs?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

mrwright said:


> Why no legs?


Check the Push day .


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The other programmes mentioned use squats every workout for a reason...


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The routine looks OK apart from possibly the fact you'll be deadlifting 5x5 twice every other week.

Personally I'd go for one of the well respected settings you mentioned, but the routine yet posted doesn't look terrible.


----------



## Mont87 (Feb 28, 2015)

All this deload and switching to 3x5 etc etc is just burning my head out! Im just going to use the workout above (exercises only) and just build strength for 6 months using 5x5. So, simply:

Alternate workouts each session

Workout A

Deadlift

Bent over row

Pull ups

Chin ups (can I do pulls and chins in same workout? Prefer chins over curls)

Workout B

Squat

Bench press

Overhead press

Dips

Stick with this for rest of the year (6 months) and then switch to a mass building workout


----------



## MidsGuy21 (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm currently on Fierce 5 which seems to work for strength gains, though its boring as hell like all strength routines, i dont plan to do it much longer. Also no matter how much i eat, i cant progress 5kg per week on deads and squats, so i do 2.5kg as i do all other lifts. Copied from the thread:

I decided to design "Fierce 5" because I wasn't completely satisfied with any of the other novice programs that are so popular. In my opinion they all had a flaw or two (slow progression, high volume, low enough volume people lose interest and most of them lack what I'd consider proper balance), albeit small inadequacies in most cases.

Fierce 5 is comprised of 5 simple workouts (supersets combined) that should take just over an hour to complete including stretching and warmups. You will be working out 3 nonconsecutive days a week and alternating between workouts A & B. Ex: Mon-A, Tues-Rest, Wed-B, Thur-Rest, Fri-A, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-B&#8230;etc. Each week you'll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts.

*Reverse flies will increase 5lbs per month, leg curls (if subbed) will increase 5lbs per week and ab work increases in reps (try adding a few reps each week.) If you are unable to increase weight in these increments due to equipment limitations then, for that exercise only, increase weight every other week. For the exercises in the 5 rep range add 1 rep per set during the weeks you aren't increasing weight. For exercises in the 8-15 range add 2 reps per set during weeks you aren't increasing weight.

This is a question I'm repeatedly asked so here is a progression example:

Monday-Squat-200, Bench-150

Wednesday-Romanian Deadlift-200, OHP-100

Friday-Squat-200, Bench-150

Weekend of rest

Monday-Romanian Deadlift-210, OHP-105

Wednesday-Squat-210, Bench-155

Friday-Romanian Deadlift-210, OHP-105

The Original

Workout A

Squat 3x5

Bench 3x5

Pendlay Rows 3x8

Reverse Flies 3x10

Calf raises 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B

Front Squat 3x5

Incline Bench 3x5

Romanian Deadlift 3x8

Lat Pulldowns 3x8

Ab work 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset (I don't care what ab work you do)

Acceptable Substitutions

Reverse Flies-Face pulls (face pulls will follow 5lb per week progression)

Tricep pressdowns-overhead extensions, skull crushers&#8230;etc. (basically any tricep isolation exercise)

Lat Pulldowns-Any form of pull/chin up. You'll need a dip belt to add weight. (You need a pull from above your head)

Incline Bench-Overhead Press

Pendlay Rows-Any horizontal pull to the chest with a wide grip and flared elbows.

Bench-Decline bench, dips (leaning forward) You'll need a dip belt to add weight

Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn't an either or kind of substitution.

Front Squat-Paused back squats

Warmups- Before your compound lifts (Squat, Bench, Rows, Front Squat, Incline, Romanian Deadlift and Lat Pulldowns) you should do at least one warmup set. As months roll by you'll begin adding more weight to the bar and you'll need to increase the number of warm up sets for some exercises. Ex: For a 135lb squat you might do 1 warm up set of 95lbs, but for a 315lb squat you might warm up with 135, 225 and 275. Warmups are used to get your muscles ready to work; they should not fatigue you. This means if your work set is 50lbs, your warmup set should be down around 25 or 30lbs.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I would just do chin ups and ditch the pull ups. Chin ups are a better exercise both for biceps and lats (the latter will be debated but the argument is because your biceps are in a stronger position they don't limit the total work that can be done by the lats so much). See here:

My Guide to Building a Better Back by Dorian Yates | Muscular Development

If you want to keep doing pull ups I would use these or chin ups on alternate pull workouts.

You don't have to worry about deloads for now. But when you find you are no longer able to progress by adding weight to the bar each workout you should either deload, or use smaller weight increments. What you don't want to end up doing is using the same weight week after week without making any progress.


----------



## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> See here:
> 
> My Guide to Building a Better Back by Dorian Yates | Muscular Development


Great link, cheers buddy


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Stronglifts 5x5 is great programme with everything already set up for you


----------



## Mont87 (Feb 28, 2015)

Ive finally made my decision, starting strength workout, I think its the onus workout but not 100% sure ha. Only thing I changed was the warm up, felt the warm up on starting strength was abit excessive and added unnecessary time to the workout. Anyway, hetes the starting strength system ill be using. Starting Monday, thinking of possibly starting a blog.

Workout A

Squat - 3x5

Bench - 3x5

Deadlift - 1x5

Workout B

Squat - 3x5

OH Press - 3x5

RowBent over Row - 3x5

3x5 means 3 work sets. Youll still be performing 5x5 but the first 2 sets are warm-up sets. 1x5 is 4 warm-up sets leading up to 1 heavy work set. After 12 weeks add dips & chins. Start by performing with only bodyweight, once you complete 3 sets of 15, add weight. Add chin-ups to workout a & dips to workout b.

Workout A

Squat - 3x5

Bench - 3x5

Deadlift - 1x5

Chin-ups - 3xf

Workout B

Squat- 3x5

OH Press - 3x5

Bent over Row - 3x5

Dips - 3xf


----------



## MidsGuy21 (Mar 25, 2013)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nvEXYVHbFBE/UoiJEdG5joI/AAAAAAAACFk/oy0GkcPyPc4/s1600/PIo8E.jpg


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

MidsGuy21 said:


> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nvEXYVHbFBE/UoiJEdG5joI/AAAAAAAACFk/oy0GkcPyPc4/s1600/PIo8E.jpg


^

That's a diet issue, not a problem with the Starting Strength training programme.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

as above milk stronglifts 5x5 or ICF 5x5 (if you have the time) for all you can

when gains start to stagnate and your repeatedly deloading move over to madcows for a slower progression

as ultrasonic said there is a reason why you squat 3x per week on all of the tried and tested noob programs, if you can add to your squat three times per week as opposed to twice then you make 50% more progress and bring your lifts up faster

when you look at the hypothetical extremes if you were able to squat 7 days per week and add to your squat every session then you would be making heaps more progress than the guy who squats once per week, obviously this is just an example and three times a week has been found to be the right balance between recovery and progress for a newer lifter therefore twice per week squatting is leaving gains on the table if your able to recover from three


----------

