# deadlifting



## mrmuscle (Apr 28, 2005)

do u have 2 do deads in your back trainin cause my waist and legs have gone so big from doing them i wanted my upper body 2 catch up and also want 2 compete next yr


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Do them on a Smith Machine mate. That should eliminate your legs and waist from being major players.

Read this month's Beef magazine, I've done a guide on doing Smith Machine Deadlifts as well as some pics of me doing them.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

Tom - i can never find beef at all - i only managed to get a copy randomly when it was the NABBA finals - any way of getting this online??


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## Lee1436114491 (Jun 6, 2004)

I was put off doing deadlifts about a year ago because apparantly it gives you a thick waist.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

You can get the Beef from CNP if you phone them direct.

Lee - That's exactly why I do them on the Smith MAchine mate - Less stabiliser recruitment.


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## dk246 (Jun 19, 2004)

mrmuscle said:


> do u have 2 do deads in your back trainin cause my waist and legs have gone so big from doing them i wanted my upper body 2 catch up and also want 2 compete next yr


i take it your hopeing to compete as a body builder? if its powerlifting id stick with the free bar


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

dk426 is right

I'm speaking purely from a bodybuilding perspective as eliminating the stabilser muscles is not going to enhance your core strength.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

Tinytom said:


> You can get the Beef from CNP if you phone them direct.


thanks for that


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## mrmuscle (Apr 28, 2005)

yea bodybuildin peeps not in to powerliftin


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## Carnivore (Apr 7, 2004)

Lee said:


> I was put off doing deadlifts about a year ago because apparantly it gives you a thick waist.


hmm, never really knew that, anybody know which part of the waist is worked most? obliques or abs etc?


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

i have a 32" waist and i have always deadlifted. i just make sure the major push comes from my legs not from bending over and pulling through with my lower back


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

Carnivore said:


> hmm, never really knew that, anybody know which part of the waist is worked most? obliques or abs etc?


deadlifting involves extension of the spine. both rectus abdominis and obliques are antagonistic stabilisers, target muscles being the erector spinae


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

bdc said:


> deadlifting involves extension of the spine. both rectus abdominis and obliques are antagonistic stabilisers, target muscles being the erector spinae


Fair enough bud but whats that mean in English?


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

Extension is an articulation in which the angle of the joint increases, in this case extension would be straightening of the back. Erector spinae are a group of muscles in the back which run down either side of your spine, these are the target muscles in the deadlift, i.e. a muscle group which is getting worked directly, the bicep being the target muscle in a curl. Rectus abdominis and obliques are abdominal muscles located in the anterior (in front of the midline) section of your waist, i.e. the front. These are 'antagonistic stabilisers' because they are the opposing muscles to the main movement (antagonist) used to stabilise your posturally. Hope this helps


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

bdc said:


> Extension is an articulation in which the angle of the joint increases, in this case extension would be straightening of the back. Erector spinae are a group of muscles in the back which run down either side of your spine, these are the target muscles in the deadlift, i.e. a muscle group which is getting worked directly, the bicep being the target muscle in a curl. Rectus abdominis and obliques are abdominal muscles located in the anterior (in front of the midline) section of your waist, i.e. the front. These are 'antagonistic stabilisers' because they are the opposing muscles to the main movement (antagonist) used to stabilise your posturally. Hope this helps


So basically it tagets yours lower back, and your obliques in part. In response to the question I guess deads can increase your waist size? Is that correct?


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

jamiedsmith1981 said:


> So basically it tagets yours lower back, and your obliques in part. In response to the question I guess deads can increase your waist size? Is that correct?


it doesnt 'target' your obliques, they are just used to stabilise, much in the same way as muscles in the back and neck are used continually just to maintain posture (and therefore have a high proportion of slow twitch muscle fibres). Hypertrophy (growth) will occur in the back with deads yes


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

bdc said:


> it doesnt 'target' your obliques, they are just used to stabilise, much in the same way as muscles in the back and neck are used continually just to maintain posture (and therefore have a high proportion of slow twitch muscle fibres). Hypertrophy (growth) will occur in the back with deads yes


Cool, I know what you mean like a secondary muscle, sort of when you bicep curl your tricep is involved when bringing the weight down?

I guess you do sports science or something?


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

yea, that would be extension at the elbow, tricep is the prime mover for that articulation.

i dont do anything at the moment, its just knowledge i have gathered, i am starting a premier course in a week or so though so i like to type down my knowledge, i find it easier to remember than simple reading.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The old cybergenic routines were designed around agonist and antagonist routines.

So if you did chest, you would work back.

But, that is ok for the arms but the big groups is just too much.

I hated dead lifts till I started doing them as of late 4-5 months. Picked a fine time to start core training at 46 years old

But what I have noticed was impressive.

Back is way way stronger.

Hamstrings got really solid and hard.

Notice some leg development.

Noticed all my lifts started going up too.

I was always weak in them and this is one reason I hated them but now I am pretty strong in them considering the little time I put into them.

Now, they are my favorite exercise:confused:

I am not worried about the waist, I want core strenght and at 46 I am starting to get it.


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

hackskii said:


> The old cybergenic routines were designed around agonist and antagonist routines.
> 
> So if you did chest, you would work back.
> 
> ...


I am going for core strength as well, i noticed i got a serious pain in the lower back a few hours after maxing out for 2 reps, it was so bad i was hoping i was not going to be crippled for the rest of my life. I train raw, no chalk or belt etc, might the lack of belt be the problem?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Crazy Mick said:


> might the lack of belt be the problem?


*Not at all, the pain came from you using too heavy of a weight and poor form.*

If you have not done deads for months time I would never go heavy in them.

I have never used a belt in squats or deads, when I do a max I shoot for what ever I can do with my normal workout weight.

If last week I did 10 reps, I shoot for higher. When I get around 12 I just add weight next workout like 10 lbs.

This drops my anywhere 8-10 then I keep going for more.

I train diffrent than most people.

I do 1 set to failure after some good warming up while I pyramid up.

This one set is my workset, for all the chips so to speak.

I guage it on what I did last week and how I feel.

I always try and beat the last week by one rep no matter what.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Deadlifts are my favourite exercise aswell. The strength gains in my legs and back are awesome, and it stimulates the appetite beyond any other exercise, after a deadlift workout i can eat anything and everything.


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

hackskii said:


> *Not at all, the pain came from you using too heavy of a weight and poor form.*
> 
> If you have not done deads for months time I would never go heavy in them.
> 
> ...


Well that pain didn't last long, maybe a day, and i only got it once.

I'm going towork on technique and form, i like to lift heavy i don't feel like i have done anything if i don't go heavy.

What sort of % should you increase your weights by if oyur going for a big deadlift? Same for bench and squats. I admit i put another 50lbs on the bar when i got them pains and i was shocked i managed the 2 rep lift.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

just add 5k a time if your unsure of your 1RM.

form is paramount, its better to fail and be able to walk away, than complete the lift and be carried out of the gym!

TBH id always advise a belt, just my 2p


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

big pete said:


> just add 5k a time if your unsure of your 1RM.
> 
> form is paramount, its better to fail and be able to walk away, than complete the lift and be carried out of the gym!
> 
> TBH id always advise a belt, just my 2p


5KG seems fine to me, cheers mate.


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

I personally would use a belt when doing any kind of heavy lifting - not only do they stabalise your back they also stabalise your stomach.

For those who dont use belts - any reason for this

?


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

Ironman said:


> I personally would use a belt when doing any kind of heavy lifting - not only do they stabalise your back they also stabalise your stomach.
> 
> For those who dont use belts - any reason for this
> 
> ?


Simply i don't have a belt 

I'm not old school lifter i would use anything just i don't have any of them, last thing i had was straps and they snapped in weeks so i don't buy them.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ironman said:


> I personally would use a belt when doing any kind of heavy lifting - not only do they stabalise your back they also stabalise your stomach.
> 
> For those who dont use belts - any reason for this
> 
> ?


I do not use a belt, wraps or straps.

I squat and dead lift.

I see no reason in using a belt and developing the muscle is support enough in itself.

The continued use of a belt will hinder your core strength.

Using grips or straps will hinder your grip strength.

If you are doing a one rep max then ok but I dont do those anymore and do not see a reason being incourperated into my routine.

I usually dont fall below 8 reps anyway during my lifting.

For protection of a pre-existing injury or a one rep max I dont see a need otherwise.


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## Ralphy (Mar 13, 2006)

Crazy Mick said:


> I am going for core strength as well, i noticed i got a serious pain in the lower back a few hours after maxing out for 2 reps, it was so bad i was hoping i was not going to be crippled for the rest of my life. I train raw, no chalk or belt etc, might the lack of belt be the problem?


Hey guys,

Im a newbie trainer & did some deadlifts for the 1st time last night. My lower back is aching also, is this good or bad? However, my pains were not as bad as Crazy Mick's. I thought this exercise was supposed to target the back!

If I am not supposed to feel any pain, pls advise so I can correct my technique.

Thks guys.

P.S. I have been looking through this website for weeks now & have learnt so much from so many. Thanks


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Any muscle group you hit for the first time you will be sore, that also goes for any new exercise too.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

hackskii said:


> Any muscle group you hit for the first time you will be sore, that also goes for any new exercise too.


Defo going to hurt for a while until the area/muscle gets used to being worked in that way, make sure you do them while looking in the mirror or with somone watching you to make sure your form is correct - the single most important thing is form in every excercise but this apply's 10 fold for Deadlifts.

They are a great excercise though well done for giving them a go, I wish I'd started doing them when I started training


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## Ralphy (Mar 13, 2006)

I used tt's advice and do them on the Smithy. I weigh 12.5 stones, what do you think i should be lifting? In Kg's please someone?


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

Ralphy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Im a newbie trainer & did some deadlifts for the 1st time last night. My lower back is aching also, is this good or bad? However, my pains were not as bad as Crazy Mick's. I thought this exercise was supposed to target the back!
> 
> ...


Well i'm not a newbie to training mate, it seems this was not muscle ache from tearing the muscle fibres down (the nice pains you get) it was the type where you seriously think your lower spine in in splinters, you will know the difference if you ever go to the max and get it wrong!

Correct form is head back, back straight, arms straight, bar as close to your shins as possible and drive through your heels, explode the weight up *while keeping good form *and thats where i went wrong i reckon, the weight was too heavy to keep the form i had, my back arched and i pulled the wieght, but felt the consequences 

In kilos a guy of 12.5 stone, average build, juice free for a 1 rep max - i don't see why 160kg - 180kg can't be done for a max  even more i guess, but stick with something like 3 x 20kg plates each end and a Olympic bar, and take the advice stated earlier going 2.5 to 5kg a time on the loading you do. Those back pains are worrying, it makes you have to lie down and you can't walk - seriously.


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## Ralphy (Mar 13, 2006)

Thx crazy mick.

When you say i should do '3x 20kg' etc, do you mean 3 reps or 3 sets?

Sorry if this question sounds stupid!

Ralphy


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Just stay light till you get the form down and dont rush the strength portion of things you will get there slowly but surely.

i used to hate deads now I really like them.

I do not use low reps for deads, I try to stay around 10 reps or what ever I hit on my failure set, could be 12, then i go up maybe 10 lbs next week.

They will make your back stronger than hell though.

This I notice big time.

Made my hamstrings come out too


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Ralphy said:


> I used tt's advice and do them on the Smithy. I weigh 12.5 stones, what do you think i should be lifting? In Kg's please someone?


Ralphy you should only be doing 100kg max at the moment. If you are new to the excercise then you sould be getting the form right first and adding 5kg a week like Big advised. CMick is right if you have been doing the excercise/BBing for a long time, but if you are new to the game then play safe and add a little wieght each week.

TT advice was aimed at advanced BB'ers I think as this is a technique used to improve once stuck in a routine which is not improving not one that is only just starting.


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

Ralphy said:


> Thx crazy mick.
> 
> When you say i should do '3x 20kg' etc, do you mean 3 reps or 3 sets?
> 
> ...


I meant 3 plates (weight disks) on either side of the bar, than work up from there. As for your rep and set range only you can know for sure what your capable of, experiment and see, take your time building up.


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## OGX (Aug 29, 2004)

never done these before since 3weeks ago! How does this sound i'm 71kg at 5'5 drug free and no belt, straps or shoes and i lifted this:

60kg x 10

80kg x 10

110kg x 10

120kg x8

130kg x8

140kg x6


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

OGX said:


> never done these before since 3weeks ago! How does this sound i'm 71kg at 5'5 drug free and no belt, straps or shoes and i lifted this:
> 
> 60kg x 10
> 
> ...


Barefoot?

That is pretty good.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

i think...

60kg - 6

100kg - 6

140kg - 6

would be better - too many sets there imo


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## kyrocera (Oct 13, 2004)

Ive recently added deads to my workout, has been a few years since i last did them. Taking it easy at the moment 'getting my form' started on 13k on each side doing 4x6 done that for a couple weeks and now put it up to nearly 16k.

I dont find these weights hard, im just using the lights weights as a building block.

Should I put the weights up every week or is every couple weeks ok?


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

put the weights up every week imo...

your form will be ok - one you think you have it nailed put it to a weight say 20kg under your best (the best you've had for reps not 1rm) and add 5kg every week - when it gets hard add 1.25kg each side instead...

let your body adapt by trying to progressively increase the load each week


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