# Here to recruit participants for my study



## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Hi guys

I'm an MSc Psychology student and am looking to recruit at least 50 bodybuilders for my dissertation study. It involves an experimental element so will take place in Central London for risk management purposes (Regent's Park to be precise). Please feel free to get in touch with me if you're interested/want to know more 

Thanks for reading!
Sonia

View attachment a-comparison-of-self-perception-in-bodybuilders-and-regular-gym-goers.pdf


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## UK2USA (Jan 30, 2016)

You want to experiment with 50 bodybuilders in Regents Park.....nice, I'm in.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

I'm far too far away to participate but this topic has been done to death already. There are so many more interesting aspects to this lifestyle that could be explored if only someone had some original thought.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

andyboro said:


> I'm far too far away to participate but this topic has been done to death already. There are so many more interesting aspects to this lifestyle that could be explored if only someone had some original thought.


 As far as I'm aware the approach I'm taking is quite novel, I can't reveal all as it may influence the results of my study but I'd be happy to report my findings once I've analysed the data.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

UK2USA said:


> You want to experiment with 50 bodybuilders in Regents Park.....nice, I'm in.


 If this isn't supposed to be inappropriate please do sign up!


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Might help if you posted a few more details as the link doesn't really give anything away. I'm happy to get involved in some research if I am happy about the agenda! Have done in the past for university dissertations and other research


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sonia said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I'm an MSc Psychology student and am looking to recruit at least 50 bodybuilders for my dissertation study. It involves an experimental element so will take place in Central London for risk management purposes (Regent's Park to be precise). Please feel free to get in touch with me if you're interested/want to know more
> 
> ...


 How are you defining bodybuilders for the point of view of your study?


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

MissMartinez said:


> Is this voluntary work or are you paying 50 bbers?


 Voluntary


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Irish Beast said:


> Might help if you posted a few more details as the link doesn't really give anything away. I'm happy to get involved in some research if I am happy about the agenda! Have done in the past for university dissertations and other research


 You're right, I was constrained to a word limit on the "call for participants" website. I've attached the info sheet, the experimental task is the rubber hand illusion.

View attachment info sheet.docx


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> How are you defining bodybuilders for the point of view of your study?


 Well first and foremost I'll be getting participants to state which group they feel they fit into best (regular gym-goers would be those who go to the gym 2-4 times a week), and although I feel this should be pretty straightforward, I'm also going to be measuring body composition using the bioelectrical impedance device - most importantly for body fat percentage but it gives me other information too. The values obtained from the device should allow me to determine sensible cut-off points to sort participants into the two groups.


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Sonia said:


> Well first and foremost I'll be getting participants to state which group they feel they fit into best (regular gym-goers would be those who go to the gym 2-4 times a week), and although I feel this should be pretty straightforward, I'm also going to be measuring body composition using the bioelectrical impedance device - most importantly for body fat percentage but it gives me other information too. The values obtained from the device should allow me to determine sensible cut-off points to sort participants into the two groups.


 Im not sure that's a very good way of determining who are bodybuilders or are aspiring to me. I know lots of people with tons of muscle but are taking time off and have piled on the lard but underneath there is a lot of muscle.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Sonia said:


> Well first and foremost I'll be getting participants to state which group they* feel *they fit into best (regular gym-goers would be those who go to the gym 2-4 times a week), and although I *feel *this should be pretty straightforward, I'm also going to be measuring body composition using the bioelectrical impedance device - most importantly for body fat percentage but it gives me other information too. The values obtained from the device should allow me to determine sensible cut-off points to sort participants into the two groups.


 So it's subjective, to answer Ultrasonics question.


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## MickeyE (Sep 17, 2015)

Sonia said:


> Well first and foremost I'll be getting participants to state which group they feel they fit into best (regular gym-goers would be those who go to the gym 2-4 times a week), and although I feel this should be pretty straightforward,* I'm also going to be measuring body composition using the bioelectrical impedance device* - most importantly for body fat percentage but it gives me other information too. The values obtained from the device should allow me to determine sensible cut-off points to sort participants into the two groups.


 Which device will you be using? As the majority of these are absolutely useless apart from very expensive high end machines.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Studies tend not to go down well here.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

Ross1991 said:


> Studies tend not to go down well here. @latblaster on the other hand goes down like a trooper.


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## GameofThrones (Feb 4, 2016)

Sonia said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I'm an MSc Psychology student and am looking to recruit at least 50 bodybuilders for my dissertation study. It involves an experimental element so will take place in Central London for risk management purposes (Regent's Park to be precise). Please feel free to get in touch with me if you're interested/want to know more
> 
> ...


 So let me get this straight. You want BB/ gym goers to take valuable time that could be spent working out, travelling to Regent's Park to be experimented on. mmmkay.

Alternatively can it take place at night?

Bodybuilders.

Park.

Experiments.

Night.

In.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sonia said:


> Well first and foremost I'll be getting participants to state which group they feel they fit into best (regular gym-goers would be those who go to the gym 2-4 times a week), and although I feel this should be pretty straightforward, I'm also going to be measuring body composition using the bioelectrical impedance device - most importantly for body fat percentage but it gives me other information too. The values obtained from the device should allow me to determine sensible cut-off points to sort participants into the two groups.


 So someone who is fat can't be a bodybuilder? Many people who enter bodybuilding competitions gain a significant amount of body fat during what they'd call the off-season. Training frequency would also not be a particularly good guide. I mean this as constructive criticism but I really do think you need to come up with a better definition of what you actually mean by a bodybuilder. If you aren't taking it to the point of someone who competes it all becomes harder to define. Is everyone who trains for appearance rather than strength/performance/health a bodybuilder for example? And what about peole who train for more than one of those goals?

Regarding body fat measurement, you may be interested in this:

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-4-the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-parts-3-and-4-bod-pod-and-bioelectrical-impedance-bia/the-pitfalls-of-bodyfat-measurement-part-4-bioelectrical-impedance-bia/


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Irish Beast said:


> Im not sure that's a very good way of determining who are bodybuilders or are aspiring to me. I know lots of people with tons of muscle but are taking time off and have piled on the lard but underneath there is a lot of muscle.


 What would you suggest instead? I thought the bioelectrical impedance device would be the best way to give me a numerical value to distinguish the two groups and with the body fat percentage at least bodybuilders would have a lot less fat than the regular gym-goers.


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Not being a smart arse but you could always just ask them or if they are absolutely massive them they probably are bodybuilders!

Most bodybuilders let there bodyfat go higher when bulking, some higher than other. Althought not usually in summer


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

MickeyE said:


> Which device will you be using? As the majority of these are absolutely useless apart from very expensive high end machines.


 http://omronwebshop.co.uk/omron-bf306-body-composition-monitor.html I know it's not great but this is a self-funded masters study so it's the best I can do!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonia said:


> Well first and foremost I'll be getting participants to state which group they feel they fit into best (regular gym-goers would be those who go to the gym 2-4 times a week), and although I feel this should be pretty straightforward, I'm also going to be measuring body composition using the bioelectrical impedance device - most importantly for body fat percentage but it gives me other information too. The values obtained from the device should allow me to determine sensible cut-off points to sort participants into the two groups.


 That sounds fu**ing stupid, sorry, but it had to be said.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Irish Beast said:


> Not being a smart arse but you could always just ask them or if they are absolutely massive them they probably are bodybuilders!
> 
> Most bodybuilders let there bodyfat go higher when bulking, some higher than other. Althought not usually in summer


 Noted, thanks for the advice/help!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sonia said:


> What would you suggest instead? I thought the bioelectrical impedance device would be the best way to give me a numerical value to distinguish the two groups and with the body fat percentage at least bodybuilders would have a lot less fat than the regular gym-goers.


 Having low body fat and being a bodybuilder are very different as far as I'm concerned - your typical marathon runner will have low body fat but categorically is not a bodybuilder. I'd say bodybuilding is primarily about gaining muscle for aesthetic rather than functional reasons.


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## MickeyE (Sep 17, 2015)

Sonia said:


> What would you suggest instead? I thought the bioelectrical impedance device would be the best way to give me a numerical value to distinguish the two groups and with the body fat percentage at least bodybuilders would have a lot less fat than the regular gym-goers.


 BIA devices are unreliable to useless barring the very high end machines that are used in medical clinics and no doubt cost a fortune.

Secondly, you think someone at 10 stone and 8% body fat is likely to fit the bill of a "bodybuilder" more than someone at 16 stone and 15% body fat? (both similar height)

I think you need to do more research.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> Having low body fat and being a bodybuilder are very different as far as I'm concerned - your typical marathon runner will have low body fat but categorically not be a bodybuilder. I'd say bodybuilding is primarily about gaining muscle for aesthetic rather than functional reasons.


 I get what you mean, it seems like defining a bodybuilder will have to be subjective (and therefore a limitation) then. Unless there's a relatively cheap body muscle percentage measuring device out there...


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Sonia said:


> I get what you mean, it seems like defining a bodybuilder will have to be subjective (and therefore a limitation) then. Unless there's a relatively cheap body muscle percentage measuring device out there...


 Google 'Purple Aki'


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Not sure why its a limitation? Does it matter if the person passes a bodybuilder test?


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Sonia said:


> I get what you mean, it seems like defining a bodybuilder will have to be subjective (and therefore a limitation) then. Unless there's a relatively cheap body muscle percentage measuring device out there...


 You can do skinfold tests which will give a better estimate. Still its not quite clear why you need to measure body fat %.

What do you plan on doing after you've separated people?


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Irish Beast said:


> Not sure why its a limitation? Does it matter if the person passes a bodybuilder test?


 It doesn't matter much at all in the grand scheme of things, but since it's subjective rather than based on a measured numerical value, it could be worth considering for future studies to improve on if I don't get the results I'm expecting.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sonia said:


> I get what you mean, it seems like defining a bodybuilder will have to be subjective (and therefore a limitation) then. Unless there's a relatively cheap body muscle percentage measuring device out there...


 There isn't, but it wouldn't help you if there was. Rugby players and powerlifters have a lot of muslce mass, but wouldn't describe themselves as bodybuilders.

What made you pick this subject? What do you think constitutes being a bodybuilder? It may be you can investigate along the lines of what you had in mind, but that being a bodybuilder or not isn't actually the distinction you want to make?

As a side note, getting 100+ people to take part in whatever your study ends up being will take a lot of time an effort.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Irish Beast said:


> Not sure why its a limitation? Does it matter if the person passes a bodybuilder test?


 It's absolutely vital if the point of the study is to look for differences between people who are bodybuilders and people who are not.


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

The guy who I was a guinea pig for continues to research but specifically non biased research relating to anabolic steroid use. Although that's not what you are looking at specifically I will ask if he has any pointers. I do think you need to give the approach a lot more thought though. Not wanting to be horrible here but it all seems a little flaky.

Have you got time to revise your approach? What made you choose this topic?


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Tomahawk said:


> You can do skinfold tests which will give a better estimate. Still its not quite clear why you need to measure body fat %.
> 
> What do you plan on doing after you've separated people?


 I think from the discussion on this thread I agree that it does seem very redundant now - before the "define what a bodybuilder is" question was asked I was pretty much leaving it up to the participant to tell me which group they'd fall into. On having the separate groups I'd simply carry out the questionnaires/experimental task as they came in - they'd both go through the same procedures. I just need to know which group each participant fits into so I can group bodybuilders together and compare their values with the values for the regular gym-goers. The body composition monitor was just there to give me additional information I thought might help/be useful to analyse.


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## MickeyE (Sep 17, 2015)

Irish Beast said:


> Not sure why its a limitation? Does it matter if the person passes a bodybuilder test?


 It's a near impossible thing to quantify though. Whether natural or assisted opens another can of worms, as quite an accomplished natural BBer in the off season will probably look like less of a "bodybuilder" (to the general public) than someone whose done a few dbol cycles. lol


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sonia said:


> It doesn't matter much at all in the grand scheme of things, but since it's subjective rather than based on a measured numerical value, it could be worth considering for future studies to improve on *if I don't get the results I'm expecting.*


 It's comments like this that give science a bad name. Whether you get the results you were expecting is *not* how you judge whether research has been good/successful.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> There isn't, but it wouldn't help you if there was. Rugby players and powerlifters have a lot of muslce mass, but wouldn't describe themselves as bodybuilders.
> 
> What made you pick this subject? What do you think constitutes being a bodybuilder? It may be you can investigate along the lines of what you had in mind, but that being a bodybuilder or not isn't actually the distinction you want to make?
> 
> As a side note, getting 100+ people to take part in whatever your study ends up being will take a lot of time an effort.





Irish Beast said:


> The guy who I was a guinea pig for continues to research but specifically non biased research relating to anabolic steroid use. Although that's not what you are looking at specifically I will ask if he has any pointers. I do think you need to give the approach a lot more thought though. Not wanting to be horrible here but it all seems a little flaky.
> 
> Have you got time to revise your approach? What made you choose this topic?


 I came across a study in my undergraduate degree which showed that people with eating disorders have a much more plastic/malleable perception of themselves. With bigorexia/muscle dysmorphia only having been established (openly) recently, I thought it'd be interesting to see if the same applied to bodybuilders/those who are super muscley. I drew the connection as bodybuilders have controlled eating habits and their body shape is at the other end of the spectrum from e.g. those who suffer from anorexia.

I think I'd agree with Ultrasonic on investigating along these lines but that distinguishing between bodybuilders and those who are not isn't the most important factor.

Irish Beast I don't have time to revise my approach, but I can see why you think it is flaky - the bodybuilder definition did throw me, I should've left it as it being completely subjective to the individual themselves.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's comments like this that give science a bad name. Whether you get the results you were expecting is *not* how you judge whether research has been good/successful.


 My mistake for wording it in that way, but I meant it just gives scope for further research as a measured numerical value is much more reliable than subjectivity.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

You certainly could do the study based solely on whether people self-identify as being bodybuilders or not, but I suspect if you go this way you will struggle to find many people who will do so. Best of luck with this though  .


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## MickeyE (Sep 17, 2015)

Sonia said:


> I think from the discussion on this thread I agree that it does seem very redundant now - before the "define what a bodybuilder is" question was asked I was pretty much leaving it up to the participant to tell me which group they'd fall into. On having the separate groups I'd simply carry out the questionnaires/experimental task as they came in - they'd both go through the same procedures. I just need to know which group each participant fits into so I can group bodybuilders together and compare their values with the values for the regular gym-goers. The body composition monitor was just there to give me additional information I thought might help/be useful to analyse.


 If you can find participants you'd probably be better off doing the study on two groups a) steroid users b), natural trainers.

The first group on average will definitely be bigger than the second.

a) gym users that are willing to take health risks by taking drugs in pursuit of their goals.

b), gym users that prefer to train naturally to reach their goals.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Just to clear this up, sorting people into the bodybuilders/regular gym-goers groups will be done via the individual telling me which group they belong to themselves. I think this saves me from a lot of body composition hassle too - maybe that's something I'll consider for my future PhD :thumb


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ultrasonic said:


> You certainly could do the study based solely on whether people self-identify as being bodybuilders or not, but I suspect if you go this way you will struggle to find many people who will do so. Best of luck with this though  .


 There are lots of people here who are very anti-science, and I wanted to get in before they did. I'm a scientist BTW.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Ultrasonic said:


> You certainly could do the study based solely on whether people self-identify as being bodybuilders or not, but I suspect if you go this way you will struggle to find many people who will do so. Best of luck with this though  .


 Thank you, for your advice too! I really appreciate it


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

MickeyE said:


> If you can find participants you'd probably be better off doing the study on two groups a) steroid users b), natural trainers.
> 
> The first group on average will definitely be bigger than the second.
> 
> ...


 Do steroid-users not keep it on the DL? If I could do a tox-screen this'd definitely be a possibility!


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## MickeyE (Sep 17, 2015)

Sonia said:


> Do steroid-users not keep it on the DL? If I could do a tox-screen this'd definitely be a possibility!


 LOL you obviously haven't read very much of this forum!

You wouldn't need to do a drug test, I doubt anyone would bother lying for the purposes of your study.

To be brutally honest I think you will find it very difficult to get participants without any reward regardless of the criteria


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

MickeyE said:


> LOL you obviously haven't read very much of this forum!
> 
> You wouldn't need to do a drug test, I doubt anyone would bother lying for the purposes of your study.
> 
> To be brutally honest I think you will find it very difficult to get participants without any reward regardless of the criteria


 I've literally only read this thread! That's interesting..

I know I'm relying heavily on people's goodwill - I've got 10 participants so far, so I'm 1/10 of the way there with just over 2 months to go - there's hope yet!


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## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

None of you roid heads fit the bill

Yoy are assisted lol

S


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Sonia said:


> I've literally only read this thread! That's interesting..
> 
> I know I'm relying heavily on people's goodwill - I've got 10 participants so far, so I'm 1/10 of the way there with just over 2 months to go - there's hope yet!


 Look around... People openly discuss their steroid usage here. Some people even put it on their Facebook, YouTube, etc.


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## MickeyE (Sep 17, 2015)

Sonia said:


> I've literally only read this thread! That's interesting..
> 
> I know I'm relying heavily on people's goodwill - I've got 10 participants so far, so I'm 1/10 of the way there with just over 2 months to go - there's hope yet!


 I'm sure you can get participants from friends and family , friends of friends even, but I think you will find it very difficult to get strangers from internet forums to take part in your study, unless there was some incentive for them to do so.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Hey Guys!

I took everything you've said into consideration and updated my study accordingly. It's now survey-only and can be found here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/K5RFTWL

I'd really really appreciate it if you could get involved.

Thank you in advance :thumb 
Sonia


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Sonia said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> I took everything you've said into consideration and updated my study accordingly. It's now survey-only and can be found here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/K5RFTWL
> 
> ...


 I did your survey, it is ridiculous to say the least. I'm not sure what your hoping to prove with a few questions, I would hardly consider that a study. You should gain at least some basic knowledge on AAS use and BB/Strength training before writing up biased surveys. Spend some time actively asking questions on this board instead of being lazy, you might educate yourself.


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## weaver (Dec 22, 2015)

Sonia said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> I took everything you've said into consideration and updated my study accordingly. It's now survey-only and can be found here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/K5RFTWL
> 
> ...


 This servey got me confused. The very last page says that its about muscle dysmorphia, yet all the questions were about eating disorders (binge eating). People with muscle dysmorphia dont have any eating disorders, they can control what they eat and they dont indulge in overeating episodes.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

weaver said:


> This servey got me confused. The very last page says that its about muscle dysmorphia, yet all the questions were about eating disorders (binge eating). People with muscle dysmorphia dont have any eating disorders, they can control what they eat and they dont indulge in overeating episodes.


 I could see personally how the two can be connected, after all, being in contest condition is pretty much starvation at the end of the day. I agree with you that overeating is not particularly something a BB would do though. None of these questions seem to have any real point to them regardless.


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## Sonia (May 20, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> I did your survey, it is ridiculous to say the least. I'm not sure what your hoping to prove with a few questions, I would hardly consider that a study. You should gain at least some basic knowledge on AAS use and BB/Strength training before writing up biased surveys. Spend some time actively asking questions on this board instead of being lazy, you might educate yourself.





weaver said:


> This servey got me confused. The very last page says that its about muscle dysmorphia, yet all the questions were about eating disorders (binge eating). People with muscle dysmorphia dont have any eating disorders, they can control what they eat and they dont indulge in overeating episodes.





Quackerz said:


> I could see personally how the two can be connected, after all, being in contest condition is pretty much starvation at the end of the day. I agree with you that overeating is not particularly something a BB would do though. None of these questions seem to have any real point to them regardless.


 The survey involves 5 questionnaires that are actually the gold-standard for health professionals. I agree that you can't gain much substantial knowledge from surveys alone (I've got a scientific background so would've much more preferred to do an experiment which gives me numerical values for things that I can actually observe) but you've got to remember that this is just for an MSc dissertation. A big reason for making my study survey-only is because literally everyone else in my class is doing the same, and I didn't see what more I'd gain from the hassle of going ahead with the experimental approach.

This area interests me because muscle dysmorphia is relatively new. Since "bigorexia" is usually defined as "the opposite of anorexia", and anorexia is an eating disorder, I wanted to see if there was some sort of association between drive for muscularity scores and (1) muscle dysmorphia, and (2) eating disorders. There's actually only one questionnaire for each of those 3 items, and the eating disorders one would be slightly longer depending on the answers you chose.

I still don't want to give too much away before I finish collecting my data as I don't want to unintentionally influence the way people answer the questions, but I'll be happy to explain further once I've done all of the analysis at the beginning of next month. Thank you for taking part anyway!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Bukkae ...


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Sonia said:


> The survey involves 5 questionnaires that are actually the gold-standard for health professionals. I agree that you can't gain much substantial knowledge from surveys alone (I've got a scientific background so would've much more preferred to do an experiment which gives me numerical values for things that I can actually observe) but you've got to remember that this is just for an MSc dissertation. A big reason for making my study survey-only is because literally everyone else in my class is doing the same, and I didn't see what more I'd gain from the hassle of going ahead with the experimental approach.
> 
> This area interests me because muscle dysmorphia is relatively new. Since "bigorexia" is usually defined as "the opposite of anorexia", and anorexia is an eating disorder, I wanted to see if there was some sort of association between drive for muscularity scores and (1) muscle dysmorphia, and (2) eating disorders. There's actually only one questionnaire for each of those 3 items, and the eating disorders one would be slightly longer depending on the answers you chose.
> 
> I still don't want to give too much away before I finish collecting my data as I don't want to unintentionally influence the way people answer the questions, but I'll be happy to explain further once I've done all of the analysis at the beginning of next month. Thank you for taking part anyway!


 You won't find many bodybuilders that do these things though: starving themselves, inducing vomit, etc.

Most bodybuilders are on the opposite extreme: they eat too much because they think that weight gain = muscle gain. You'll find that ones that don't subscribe to this view are typically the more balanced and rational thinking ones, so they will have more reasonable balanced diets. (And no, they don't binge eat and then starve/vomit/punish themselves on a treadmill)

In summary I find the survey confusing and pointless, especially since you specifically asked for bodybuilders. This coupled with your previous idea of getting 50 people into a park and separating them into 2 groups based on their body fat percentage (measured by an inaccurate electric device), leads me to believe you have a very very poor intuition and understanding about bodybuilding, weightlifting, diet, and all things related.

For someone doing research on this topic, I think this significantly lowers the value of your research, and to be frank I'm being extremely nice to you.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Tomahawk said:


> You won't find many bodybuilders that do these things though: starving themselves, inducing vomit, etc.
> 
> Most bodybuilders are on the opposite extreme: they eat too much because they think that weight gain = muscle gain. You'll find that ones that don't subscribe to this view are typically the more balanced and rational thinking ones, so they will have more reasonable balanced diets. (And no, they don't binge eat and then starve/vomit/punish themselves on a treadmill)
> 
> ...


 So was I..........


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