# How can I lose fat FAST (but safely, naturally & permanently...etc) ?



## ship69 (Aug 24, 2015)

Hello

I am new around here. I am looking for the fastest way to lose belly fat: 
a. Without losing muscle (not significantly that is)
b. Do so naturally - i.e. without destroying my health with caffeine/drugs etc. 
c. I don't want to risk blowing up my heart either
d. Without buying any expensive supplements
e. If possible I don't want to yo-yo afterwards (i.e. bounce back to being fat again)

Background
I am fairly fit (can run 3 or 4 miles), my joints creak a bit but if warmed up properly I can do a bit of sprinting without ill effect and am male and in my mid 50s. I weight about 12.5 stone. I just want to lose maybe 6 or 9 pounds - off my belly if possible. I have recently been doing 45 mins - 1 hour of exercise every other day. I have recently doubled the amount of exercise I have been doing and halved the amount of food I was eating and - having read Tim Ferrris's work (4 hour body) - for the last 2 weeks I gave up eating all white carbs (rice/potatoes/all fruit) completely except for 1 day/week "cheat days". I have been eating quite a lot of raw greens, and lean meat... plus a fair bit of tinned beans. I was drinking a lot of water. And getting about 6.5 - 7.5 hours sleep/night... However bizarrely in the last 14 days I have put ON fat (plus maybe a bit of muscle). What I want to do is LOSE fat - and fast as I am going on a beach holiday v soon. 
What do you people make of:

A. Tim Ferris's 4 hour body & his "Slow Carbs" diet (lots of beans, greens and lean meat plus cheat day) But as above it didn't work for me!

B. Shin Ohtake's "Max Workouts" plan. (No, I've not bought it but half listened to his sales chat - basically it seems to involve High Intensitive 30 minute workouts with weights one day and cardio the next day.)

C. Wes Virgin's "Fat Diminisher" diet/supplements 
(Again I've not bought anything but have listened to his video. It's something about "metabolic acidosis", giving up certain veggies and is based on the work of "Severino" whoever he is. Big weight loss and health claims...)

Can you give me any do-es and don't for rapid fat loss?

What sort of RATE of weight loss can I realistically hope to achieve?

Many thanks

J

P.S. I have don a lot of reading of Tim Ferris's (controversial/ irritatingly long-winded) book but where can I find I nice short summary of the consensus view on this subject?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

It all boils down to your activity levels. To many calories in vs not enough activity = stored fat. Not enough calories vs to much activity = fat loss possible muscle wastage.

So to build muscle and reduce fat is simple. Maintain your current calorific intake. Up your current activity levels through lifting weights in the hypertrophy range. Do this consistently and through time you will gain muscle while dropping body fat. Now because you are building muscle with the current food/calories you are eating, you will become stronger. A stronger muscle can move more weight requiring more energy...Its a vicious circle lol. This will continue until you reach a plateau calories in vs energy used. This is a long term way to reduce your bf% and gain muscle.


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## Jammy Dodger (Nov 2, 2014)

Buy/illegally download insanity. I havn't done it but know people who have. Follow the diet plan. You will lose weight.


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## Denied (Sep 25, 2008)

The OP said fast, so I'd say carb free diet apart from veg. You'll lose a few pounds in a couple of days, as you'll lose some water bloat, as you won't be producing as much insulin. Then continue on with that, eating less calories than you usually will as you won't feel as hungry


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Then bounce back LOL


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Same question you posted yesterday, it'll have been deleted for not being in the right section.

Sort it out


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## arcticfox (Jan 11, 2015)

DappaDonDave said:


> Same question you posted yesterday, it'll have been deleted for not being in the right section.
> 
> Sort it out


Yep woundering why it was a double post without my comments


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

arcticfox said:


> Yep woundering why it was a double post without my comments


I miss the neg button for these kind of posters


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Does and donts.

do - get some bloody patience.

dont - be so bloody impatient.

if you are honestly eating in a deficit and moving/training every day then you arent gaining fat.. if its based on the scales then its probably muscle/possibly water depending on the day.

if not - you're cheating yourself.

there's no way to spot lose fat so its just a case of plugging away at it too im afraid.


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Clean up your diet and exercise mate [resistance training and cardio] You didn't gain the fat fast so don't expect to lost is fast either.

To do this naturally and safely it takes time, dedication, self-belief and not becoming obsessed with seeing progress overnight.


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## never-say-never (Aug 17, 2015)

one word, KETO


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## never-say-never (Aug 17, 2015)

PLUS THE CMMENT ABOVE MY LAST COMMENT,

you didn't gain fat fast to lose it fast... gaining is always easier in fact. takes time to lose it... look up Keto diet and do some proper training

PLUS THE CMMENT ABOVE MY LAST COMMENT,

you didn't gain fat fast to lose it fast... gaining is always easier in fact. takes time to lose it... look up Keto diet and do some proper training


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

eat less and move more , you will lose weight.


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

calorie deficit with a crash helmet and shin pads


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## ship69 (Aug 24, 2015)

So reading around the consensus seems to be:
>>>
- Workout 3 times a week with weights.
- Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass.
- Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week.
- Drink lots of water
>>>

And yes, calorie deficit has to be part of it - by definition!
But how do I avoid feeling physically weak, and poor brain function (including quickly being in a terrible mood!) .

I have a history of mild reactive hypoglycemia... and I do need a brain that works well to hold down a productive job/get on with my life etc.

What other tricks are there?
e.g. Is it important to eat multiple small meals? (e.g. 4 or 5 per day?)
e.g. Do we REALLY need that much protein?
This guy Dr T says we are all eating FAR too much protein already and it is responsible for the diseases of civilization (cancer, heart attack, diabetes etc)




e.g. What about fats - are they really that bad or are fast burn carbs better.

e.g. Given that I am getting older (55) what other things do I need to know ?

Also which is better - hitting the gym with heavy weights or doing some kind of HIIT workouts?

Thanks

OP


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## Snake (Sep 30, 2014)

ship69 said:


> So reading around the consensus seems to be:
> 
> >>>
> 
> ...


Didn't watch the video but look at how skinny that cvnts arms are, do you really think we're going to take his advice on how much protein to eat? DO YOU??


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## Snake (Sep 30, 2014)

Guy looks like he's never had a good square meal in his life.


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## ship69 (Aug 24, 2015)

Snake said:


> Didn't watch the video but look at how skinny that cvnts arms are, do you really think we're going to take his advice on how much protein to eat? DO YOU??


Fair point! 

However surely his skinny arms are a slightly weak argument against the scientific data he describes.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ship69 said:


> Fair point!
> 
> However surely his skinny arms are a slightly weak argument against the scientific data he describes.


Forget this guy, he is a scaremonger. I have data to crush his data 

1g/lb is fine, especially if weight training, 20-30% of calories from fats, balance of your calories from carbs. Make sure you are in a deficit.

If you want to lose weight, then you will need to feel hungry and maybe moody sometimes. You choose what is more important.

Use diet drinks to curb sugar cravings if you get them. If you are not a fan of diet drinks just water or some green tea.

No need for lots of small meals, just fit in what your calories allow around your day.

Train with weights, not silly light weights but heavy enough so you can only lift 10 reps. It should never be easy

Do some cardio, or not, but it will help. 30 mins walk is cardio. Walk uphill to make it harder.

Be patient. Fat loss that you want to stay off needs to be a lifestyle choice, or a lifestyle change, not a one off diet.

Something to think about.


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## ship69 (Aug 24, 2015)

OK interesting.

> No need for lots of small meals, just fit in what your calories allow around your day.
This sounds counter-intuitive. Have you ever tried lots of small meals when cutting?

> Do some cardio, or not, but it will help. 30 mins walk is cardio. 
So you are not a fan of HIIT, then?
Is 30 mins of light cardio enough?
Do you not subscribe to the ideas of whole-body type exercises, rather then localized muscle exercises?

One thing I will say is that after a few days, eating slower-burn carbs definitely reduces the sweetness cravings.

Some people say a one-day/week cheat day where you go crazy and eat lots of sweet junk is actually something that helps fat loss over the medium/ longer term. Something to do with stopping the body from going into famine mode and keeping the metabolic rate up.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ship69 said:


> OK interesting.
> 
> > No need for lots of small meals, just fit in what your calories allow around your day.
> This sounds counter-intuitive. Have you ever tried lots of small meals when cutting?
> ...


What is counter intuitive about it? The lots of small meals during the day is a myth, normally spouted by misguided individual who have been reading the wrong websites. It doesn't speed up your metabolism.

You can use hiit. Tell me what hiit you are talking about? Define enough? If it allows to remain in a deficit it is enough, if weight loss stalls, increase cardio.

I would suggest compound movements being part of your weight training, if that is what you are implying?

A cheat meal is ok, not a day. Famine mode is hocus pocus.

Please use the quote button if you want a reply, else I may miss your post.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> Forget this guy, he is a scaremonger. I have data to crush his data
> 
> 1g/lb is fine, especially if weight training, 20-30% of calories from fats, balance of your calories from carbs. Make sure you are in a deficit.
> 
> ...


Most important one in my view, I got into the bad of drinking beer and wine every day with my dinner or watching TV. Also ate biscuits every time I had a coffee. Easy enough to cut out actually, Was just habit as they were sitting in the cupboard


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## MidsGuy21 (Mar 25, 2013)

Do Lyle Mcdonalds rapid fat loss, if you stick to it it is the fastest way to lose fat srs


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> What is counter intuitive about it? The lots of small meals during the day is a myth, normally spouted by misguided individual who have been reading the wrong websites. It doesn't speed up your metabolism.


There does seem to be another benefit of multiple small meals: If I understand correctly protein absorption and synthesis maxes out around 30-45 grams of protein per meal. So if you only eat 3 meals a day you will only be able to get in 100 grams of protein or so. Let me know if you have more complete data for this!


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

To the OP: With correct diet/training, you can expect to lose 1 pound (0.5 kilo) of fat per week. Any faster and you will lose significant amounts of muscle. Any slower and you'll get bored and unmotivated.

Note that it may take a few weeks/months for you to understand how your body works and responds in order to reach this 1 lb/week loss. You'll have to experiment and find your daily calorie intake.

Also note that if you train too much you will raise cortisol levels which will give your body a tendency to store fat and breakdown muscle.. If you noticed that by doubling your exercise you started to get fatter this may be the problem.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Tomahawk said:


> There does seem to be another benefit of multiple small meals: If I understand correctly protein absorption and synthesis maxes out around 30-45 grams of protein per meal. So if you only eat 3 meals a day you will only be able to get in 100 grams of protein or so. Let me know if you have more complete data for this!


There may be some data, but the main argument that dispels the myth of 30g of protein per meal is intermittent fasting. People still make good progress on this diet, and they only have a small window to fit all their days protein in, along with their carbs and fats.

It is suggested that the body simply takes longer to digest the protein. It doesn't just get wasted.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Tomahawk said:


> There does seem to be another benefit of multiple small meals: If I understand correctly protein absorption and synthesis maxes out around 30-45 grams of protein per meal. So if you only eat 3 meals a day you will only be able to get in 100 grams of protein or so. Let me know if you have more complete data for this!


http://alanaragon.com/protein-scare-mongering-courtesy-of-consumer-reports.html


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> There does seem to be another benefit of multiple small meals: If I understand correctly protein absorption and synthesis maxes out around 30-45 grams of protein per meal. So if you only eat 3 meals a day you will only be able to get in 100 grams of protein or so. Let me know if you have more complete data for this!


I'll comment a bit on the protein timing/portion size issue here as it interests me, but the bottom line is that:

*To the best of my knowledge there are no studies investigating whether there are any long term body composition advantages to considering anything more than total protein eaten per day, and therefore no clear evidence that considering protein timing/portion size issues offers any advantage.*

All relevant study data here is limited to looking at the acute response of protein ingestion following ingestion on muscle protein synthesis (or preferably the fractional synthetic rate i.e. rate of muscle sysnthesis - muscle breakdown), usually from the ingestion of whey with occasionally some simple carbs but not normal whole food meals. The tests are done this way due to the complexity of making the required measurements, but it is reasonable to point out they differ significantly from real world conditions.

What these studies show is that there may be a benefit from having blood amino acid levels that rise and fall throughout the day, with the often suggested ideal of maintaining constantly elevated blood amino acid levels actually being a bad idea (see e.g. p. 17 of this review paper). Linked to this is the idea of a minimum amount of leucine required to maximise muscle protein synthesis (the 'leucine threshold'), so you then get into a discussion about the optimum amount of protein per 'meal' and the time between these 'meals'. The most interesting paper to look at this effect is probably this one, BUT note that the participants consumed nothing but the specified protein amounts over the 12 hours following exercise which is obviously very different to the diet anyone would actually eat.

One idea that has been proposed as possibly being advantageous is to eat most of a day's calories in a number of large meals, but to have a quickly absorbed protein source (e.g. whey or BCAAs) between meals to spike blood amino acid levels but then allow time for them to return to near baseline again before the next meal. This is actually what I do as it might just possibly offer a small advantage, but I'm certainly not banking on it and it may be a complete waste of time. It does though suit particularly my weekday schedule, having a large breakfast, lunch and dinner, with just whey mid-morning and mid-afternoon. This means that I eat like a 'normal person' as far as work colleagues are concerned. To what extent this approach actually leads to blood amino acids fluctuating is hard to know though, given the slower absorption of protein from whole food meals, and is an important argument for this approach offering no advantage.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Thanks guys, lots of good data here, gotta love science.


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