# Deads - Singles? Doubles? Triples?



## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

I've been building my dead lift up nicely over the last few months towards my target of 180kg - the nice looking 4 plates ego massager.

Since 160kg I've been doing triples, as getting 5 out was causing me issues.

Last night I failed my first ever dead lift at 175kg which was a rather underwhelming experience - I got the first two reps out, but the third just wasn't there - the tank was empty.

Do I keep at that weight and keep going for 3 reps, or do I accept doubles as ok and keep moving up the weight.

I'm confident that if I stick to doubles, I'll be able to nail my 180kg target in the next two sessions.

I do higher rep work on all my other lifts, but I like maxing out on the dead lift.

Is there any shame or issue in sticking with doubles, or even going up in singles?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

by maxing out you are hindering you progress .

doubles - triples are fine


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> by maxing out you are hindering you progress .
> 
> doubles - triples are fine


Doubles sounds good - I can do that!

Can you explain the hindering bit to help me understand why?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

The Sweeney said:


> Doubles sounds good - I can do that!
> 
> Can you explain the hindering bit to help me understand why?


its pretty easy to understand buddy , if you max out on a lift what progress are you really making except for maybe one day after a few weeks you move the weight .

the way to build a bigger deadlift is by building strength through reps/sets which increases your 1rm without needing to pull a 1rm


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## jammie2013 (Nov 14, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Doubles sounds good - I can do that!
> 
> Can you explain the hindering bit to help me understand why?


It's hard to accumulate sufficient work load to drive the strength gains. The more advanced you get, the more total tonnage you require. And hitting that with maximal singles is damn difficult


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> its pretty easy to understand buddy , if you max out on a lift what progress are you really making except for maybe one day after a few weeks you move the weight .
> 
> the way to build a bigger deadlift is by building strength through reps/sets which increases your 1rm without needing to pull a 1rm





jammie2013 said:


> It's hard to accumulate sufficient work load to drive the strength gains. The more advanced you get, the more total tonnage you require. And hitting that with maximal singles is damn difficult


That makes sense - thanks for explaining.

Whether my ego will let me remains to be seen, but my intention once I get to 180kg is to then stick at that weight and begin to build up the reps.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

The Sweeney said:


> That makes sense - thanks for explaining.
> 
> Whether my ego will let me remains to be seen, but my intention once I get to 180kg is to then stick at that weight and begin to build up the reps.


10 weeks i can have you pulling 200 , but good luck pulling 180 for 2 in that same 10 week period training as you are


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stop maxing out, it takes a long time to recover from.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> 10 weeks i can have you pulling 200 , but good luck pulling 180 for 2 in that same 10 week period training as you are


I'm all ears buddy.... 

Currenty I do:

60 x 8

80 x 5

100 x 3

120 x 1

140 x 1

160 x 1

175 x 3 - failed last rep.

That's where I am today.

200 sounds great...


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> I'm all ears buddy....
> 
> Currenty I do:
> 
> ...


Id say there's not enough volume there


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

This is the programme I follow that was given to me by Andy Bolton:

W1: 70% 8x2

W2: 75% 8x2

W3: 80% 5x2

W4: 85% 5x2

W5: 90% 5x2

W6: 95% 5x2

Week 7 is comp week so I'd rest all week then compete on the weekend.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Reading this with interest.

Currently trying to up my deadlift. I pulled 200kg back in October, then stopped doing them because they had started to irritate an old back injury. I started up again 4 weeks ago with a 160kg single, then did 180, 190 and 200 again last night. Set myself a target of 227 (500lb) by the end of the year.

Only doing single maxes at the moment though. I'm a relative novice at deadlifting, so I'm all ears.

Warmups follow a similar pattern : 40x10, 70x7, 100x5, 120x4, 140x3, 160x2, 180x1, then the max set


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

5's for me


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Just realised OP started a thread at the beginning of March with virtually the same question. I did my best to answer it then so guess you didn't listen or just forgot.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

The Sweeney said:


> I'm all ears buddy....
> 
> Currenty I do:
> 
> ...


theres a russian peaking routine in strength section or follow bataz routine off andy


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Once my back has heeled up i will be running

the first 4 sets doing 6 reps then the next 3 sets with 3 reps


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## ATMeredith (May 21, 2013)

*"Training is about building strength, as opposed to testing strength"* with that said 

From looking at your deadlift training it looks like my warmup for a 1 rep max test (which I do twice a year).

Like most have said you need to work in the 70%-80% range for many sets and reps to make faster and safer progress.

Iv just run a 12 week training cycle and I never trained over 75% on my deadlift and managed to go from 140kg to 180kg deadlift (40kg pr), that was done with no belt, just chalk.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> Just realised OP started a thread at the beginning of March with virtually the same question. I did my best to answer it then so guess you didn't listen or just forgot.


Must have forgotten buddy, no offence intended.

I ended up on the Starting Strength 3 x 5 program which got me to 160kg, but then I simply couldn't get 5 reps out above that weight despite a few deloads.

I moved down to 3 reps and got the weight up to 175kg where I'm at now.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Must have forgotten buddy, no offence intended.
> 
> I ended up on the Starting Strength 3 x 5 program which got me to 160kg, but then I simply couldn't get 5 reps out above that weight despite a few deloads.
> 
> I moved down to 3 reps and got the weight up to 175kg where I'm at now.


No offence taken pal. Anyhow there's some solid advice on here for you now so chose your path and update us in a couple of months.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> Id say there's not enough volume there


I cut the volume down to 'build up singles' so I wasn't already fatigued when it came to the heaviest work set.

I'm getting the feeling that what I've been doing is fine to see where I'm at, but not to improve where I'm at?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> I cut the volume down to 'build up singles' so I wasn't already fatigued when it came to the heaviest work set.
> 
> I'm getting the feeling that what I've been doing is fine to see where I'm at, but not to improve where I'm at?


Exactly, you got it. I wouldn't be testing my max anymore frequent than every 2 month, even longer maybe. I used to max out too often and crashed badly.


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## Roid-Rage (Nov 26, 2014)

Bataz said:


> This is the programme I follow that was given to me by Andy Bolton:
> 
> W1: 70% 8x2
> 
> ...


Just out of interest mate is that 5 sets of 2 reps or 2 sets of 5 reps?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Roid-Rage said:


> Just out of interest mate is that 5 sets of 2 reps or 2 sets of 5 reps?


5 sets of 2 reps mate. If I feel capable I put in a few heavy singles but nothing near my max.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> I cut the volume down to 'build up singles' so I wasn't already fatigued when it came to the heaviest work set.
> 
> I'm getting the feeling that what I've been doing is fine to see where I'm at, but not to improve where I'm at?


Yeah its fine to test your 1 rep max every now and again but consistently pulling each week for that wont help you improve on that.

My best deadlift was done when there was more volume involved i totaled 28 reps for working sets thats not including the warm up sets and reps to get me to working weight.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Bataz said:


> Exactly, you got it. I wouldn't be testing my max anymore frequent than every 2 month, even longer maybe. I used to max out too often and crashed badly.


I was in the same boat mate got in to a real bad habit of chasing numbers week in week out


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> This is the programme I follow that was given to me by Andy Bolton:
> 
> W1: 70% 8x2
> 
> ...





Bataz said:


> No offence taken pal. Anyhow there's some solid advice on here for you now so chose your path and update us in a couple of months.


Online calculators suggest my current 1rm would be circa 180kg as it stands, so should I use 180kg as the basis to form the % calculators from, or should I aim higher?

Sorry if I'm being a bit think - I could just do with the numbers to start from to work those percentages out so at the end of the program I'm better than my approx. 180 1RM of today.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: just to explain myself a little better - should I aim to be able to lift 200kg by the end of those 7 weeks and hence base my 70% starting weight from 200kg, hence week 1 would be 140kg etc...

EDIT: Also, how long would you suggest resting between those sets?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> I was in the same boat mate got in to a real bad habit of chasing numbers week in week out


I still do it now occasionally, just get a bit carried away. Have to reign it in and keep the PB attempts for the platform.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Stephen9069 said:


> I was in the same boat mate got in to a real bad habit of chasing numbers week in week out


this sounds exactly like i am, might drop down to 75% for a few weeks as chasing numbers is nice but i want a bigger back


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Online calculators suggest my current 1rm would be circa 180kg as it stands, so should I use 180kg as the basis to form the % calculators from, or should I aim higher?
> 
> Sorry if I'm being a bit think - I could just do with the numbers to start from to work those percentages out so at the end of the program I'm better than my approx. 180 1RM of today.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


No problem mate. Just base it off your most recent max. For example my all time max is 200 but i only managed to pull 190 at my last comp. So this time i set the %'s off 190 in an effort to beat 190 next time. Next comp is 19th April so I shall see them what I manage to pull. However I will say for me personally as a powerlifter im more

Focused on my total and not one single lift.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Bataz said:


> I still do it now occasionally, just get a bit carried away. Have to reign it in and keep the PB attempts for the platform.


Lol yeah its easy to get carried away with it. I make sure now i get the volume in then im to beat to try for max


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> this sounds exactly like i am, might drop down to 75% for a few weeks as chasing numbers is nice but i want a bigger back


Volume is key mate its the same with squatting.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> Lol yeah its easy to get carried away with it. I make sure now i get the volume in then im to beat to try for max


I did it today, pushed too far on a single, just been stubborn. Luckily I have enough time before next comp to make progress.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Bataz said:


> I did it today, pushed too far on a single, just been stubborn. Luckily I have enough time before next comp to make progress.


What are you hoping to pull on comp day


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> What are you hoping to pull on comp day


I'd be happy with 210. Purely because that was my 3rd attempt last time and I almost got it up but grip failed me at the last moment, was so close lol. Overall I'm after a 500 total.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Bataz said:


> I'd be happy with 210. Purely because that was my 3rd attempt last time and I almost got it up but grip failed me at the last moment, was so close lol. Overall I'm after a 500 total.


Thats a strong pull mate and a big total, whats your body weight ?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> Thats a strong pull mate and a big total, whats your body weight ?


I'll be in u100kg Raw category. This will only be my 2nd comp. I've been training on and off for about 2 years but only training seriously for powerlifting since xmas. The rest of the time I was just d1cking about like a n0b lol


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## Dawson86 (Aug 17, 2014)

I used to work up to singles but wasn't getting very far so started the ortmyer/magnusson routine which works up to doubles. 4 weeks ago I could do 180x2 now I can do 200x2 and 180x6. Not bad going for a month.

I highly recommend starting a programme, stronger people have been where we are now so theyre worth listening to.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> No problem mate. Just base it off your most recent max. For example my all time max is 200 but i only managed to pull 190 at my last comp. So this time i set the %'s off 190 in an effort to beat 190 next time. Next comp is 19th April so I shall see them what I manage to pull. However I will say for me personally as a powerlifter im more
> 
> Focused on my total and not one single lift.


Sorry, I'm being dense again...

The program builds over 7 weeks to get to the max as set at the beginning.

I reckon I'll be able to do 180 x 2 in a week or two as it stands already, as 175 x 2 was do able.

Should I not aim for 200 in 7 weeks and base my % calcs from there? Otherwise it looks as though I'm spending 7 weeks building up to where I'm not far off now?

Again, forgive me if I'm not 'getting it'


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Sorry, I'm being dense again...
> 
> The program builds over 7 weeks to get to the max as set at the beginning.
> 
> ...


Set the %'s off your most recent one rep max. Then in the last week you are doing 5 sets of doubles with 95%. You then rest the 7th week to recover and then attempt your 1 rep max. If you set the %'s higher than your actual 1rm then you are going to be training to close to your actual max too soon.

For arguments sake let's say John Smiths max is 200. He's sets te % off that and in week 6 is doing 5 sets of doubles with 190. If he can double 190 5 times then he should be confident of beating a 200 single the following week.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Bataz said:


> I'll be in u100kg Raw category. This will only be my 2nd comp. I've been training on and off for about 2 years but only training seriously for powerlifting since xmas. The rest of the time I was just d1cking about like a n0b lol


Lol atleast you found a direction mate and im sure you will achieve your goals.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Dawson86 said:


> I used to work up to singles but wasn't getting very far so started the ortmyer/magnusson routine which works up to doubles. 4 weeks ago I could do 180x2 now I can do 200x2 and 180x6. Not bad going for a month.
> 
> I highly recommend starting a programme, stronger people have been where we are now so theyre worth listening to.


X2 on this routine this gave me my best deadlift to date.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stephen9069 said:


> Lol atleast you found a direction mate and im sure you will achieve your goals.


Aye, next target is 500kg total on 19th April.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

MRSTRONG said:


> its pretty easy to understand buddy , if you max out on a lift what progress are you really making except for maybe one day after a few weeks you move the weight .
> 
> the way to build a bigger deadlift is by building strength through reps/sets which increases your 1rm without needing to pull a 1rm


Agree with this. With higher rep hypertrophy work it's fine and indeed desirable to go to failure, but with strength progression/when training with heavier loads you progress better by stopping just shy. When up to heavy poundages periodization really needs to be employed too.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> Set the %'s off your most recent one rep max. Then in the last week you are doing 5 sets of doubles with 95%. You then rest the 7th week to recover and then attempt your 1 rep max. If you set the %'s higher than your actual 1rm then you are going to be training to close to your actual max too soon.
> 
> For arguments sake let's say John Smiths max is 200. He's sets te % off that and in week 6 is doing 5 sets of doubles with 190. If he can double 190 5 times then he should be confident of beating a 200 single the following week.


Ah, that makes sense.

So if I base everything from 180kg, by the time I get there, it should be far easier than what it'll be in a week or so if I carry on the way I am?

When I get there, how to I go forwards - do a 1RM test and repeat the program?

Also, how much rest between sets of doubles?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Sextuples to decuples :thumb:


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Ah, that makes sense.
> 
> So if I base everything from 180kg, by the time I get there, it should be far easier than what it'll be in a week or so if I carry on the way I am?
> 
> ...


Rest all of week 7 then test your 1RM at end of week 7. Rest periods I usually take 3-5 minutes max.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> Rest all of week 7 then test your 1RM at end of week 7. Rest periods I usually take 3-5 minutes max.


If I base the program % from 180 as discussed, at the end of the 7 week program, where might I expect to have my 1RM to have risen to?

Assuming it does increase from 180, do I then repeat the program again with the same % based on the new higher 1RM?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> If I base the program % from 180 as discussed, at the end of the 7 week program, where might I expect to have my 1RM to have risen to?
> 
> Assuming it does increase from 180, do I then repeat the program again with the same % based on the new higher 1RM?


I don't know how much you will increase by that just depends on you and how you do on the day. Then reset your % based on whatever your 1RM is and start again. Remember you need to be patient. You might only add 5kg to 1RM or you might add 20kg. Every bodies different and there's so many different factors. But patience and been in it for the long haul is key. Don't expect miracles after ever cycle, PB's may come thick and fast at first but the stronger you get the harder to come by they will be.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> I don't know how much you will increase by that just depends on you and how you do on the day. Then reset your % based on whatever your 1RM is and start again. Remember you need to be patient. You might only add 5kg to 1RM or you might add 20kg. Every bodies different and there's so many different factors. But patience and been in it for the long haul is key. Don't expect miracles after ever cycle, PB's may come thick and fast at first but the stronger you get the harder to come by they will be.


Thanks for all your help


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Thanks for all your help


No problem. Also think about this, let's say i have 14 weeks to prep for a comp. Then what i would do is run the 6 week cycle, rest/deload week 7, then restart the cycle again using the same figures leading up to comp. Bear this in mind as at some point you won't want or be able to max out every 6-7 weeks. It takes too long to recover from maxing out to be doing it too often.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> No problem. Also think about this, let's say i have 14 weeks to prep for a comp. Then what i would do is run the 6 week cycle, rest/deload week 7, then restart the cycle again using the same figures leading up to comp. Bear this in mind as at some point you won't want or be able to max out every 6-7 weeks. It takes too long to recover from maxing out to be doing it too often.


Jeez - starting strength has seen me maxing out every session since August!!! No wonder I'm knackered!


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## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

I've never really done deadlifts other than here or there but last 3 weeks I have been training it and got to 260kg for a couple but what I noticed is hamstrings really come into play so I think training everything involved so back hamstrings etc can help build up your deadlifts without even doing them regularly


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## Roid-Rage (Nov 26, 2014)

Bataz said:


> 5 sets of 2 reps mate. If I feel capable I put in a few heavy singles but nothing near my max.


Ah ok ye thought so cheers mate, I'm mainly just reading these threads, been doing higher rep deadlifts for hypertrophy etc. for a while now but now thinking of moving into something like this and lifting heavy because my 1RM is 160kg but its been that for about 2 years even though I've raised the weight I train for 8s and 12s.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

ATMeredith said:


> *"Training is about building strength, as opposed to testing strength"* with that said
> 
> From looking at your deadlift training it looks like my warmup for a 1 rep max test (which I do twice a year).
> 
> ...


What routine was this mate?


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## ATMeredith (May 21, 2013)

Charlee Scene said:


> What routine was this mate?


Sheiko.


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

ATMeredith said:


> *"Training is about building strength, as opposed to testing strength"*
> 
> .


 Mark Bell  . Love this quote


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

ATMeredith said:


> Sheiko.


Cheers dude


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## ATMeredith (May 21, 2013)

RS86 said:


> Mark Bell  . Love this quote


I live by it mate,

So many peeps at my gym are testing every 4-6 weeks, and they wonder why there not getting stronger :huh: lol

I only see where i'm at once or twice a year.


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

ATMeredith said:


> I live by it mate,
> 
> So many peeps at my gym are testing every 4-6 weeks, and they wonder why there not getting stronger :huh: lol
> 
> I only see where i'm at once or twice a year.


 Guilty of it myself.

I know better but sometimes just get carried away. Really p!sses me off missing a lift as well.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Out of sheer stubbornness I was determined to lift 180 kg and I'm thrilled to bits. At least I now know my 1RM. Satisfied that I know I had it in me, I'll now back off and do that Andy Bolton routine and see if that can help me either increase my 1RM or at least allow me to hit a double or triple at the same weight.






Never did a deadlift in my life before August last year.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Out of sheer stubbornness I was determined to lift 180 kg and I'm thrilled to bits. At least I now know my 1RM. Satisfied that I know I had it in me, I'll now back off and do that Andy Bolton routine and see if that can help me either increase my 1RM or at least allow me to hit a double or triple at the same weight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll give it a month and you'll be talking about doing a 190kg attempt.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> I'll give it a month and you'll be talking about doing a 190kg attempt.


I think the Bolton routine is 7 weeks, but fingers crossed!


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Id drop the weight and work on form. Just my opinion.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Bataz said:


> Id drop the weight and work on form. Just my opinion.


Absolutely.

The Bolton routine mentioned earlier in the thread should allow me to do this, as well as training for bigger lifts in the future.

I've always had a rounded upper back, but my lower back is getting better all the time and I'm noticing soreness the next day is reducing to the point where I'n not really sore at all the next day.

As you say, back to maybe 140kg and build/train up from there to new heights.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> I'll give it a month and you'll be talking about doing a 190kg attempt.


Just checking in...

I followed the Bolton routine to the letter and tonight was my attempt at a double for 180kg, where it was my previous 1RM with poor form.

Well, it worked - I got the double, the first rep with half reasonable form, too.

Next week is the 190kg 1RM test to see if it's really worked, then back down again on the routine to build up to 200kg...

Form is definitely better though, and 140kg whilst definitely heavy, isn't really trying any more, where previously it was a gut buster.


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