# DNP and Type 1 Diabetes - a log.



## BigRedSwitch

Reposting as my previous thread didn't appear?

As I mentioned in my other threads over the last few weeks, I've decided to try a low dose (125mg) of DNP (from d-hacks). I'm also Type 1 Diabetic. This log will be updated as many times as possible per day to let you know how things are going.

I took my first tab at 8.48 this morning on an empty stomach. I took 800iu of Vitamin E and about 300ml of water at the same time. I've also dropped my basal insulin rate to 75% for the next 24 hours, although I expect this won't really be required until glycogen depletion is complete. I've just had 600mg of ALA too - another 600 later today.

I'm having 100mg of Vit C in the next half hour or so too.

All being well, I'll be starting T3 on Wednesday. This is also the lowest dose possible.

Here's hoping everything will be OK! I'm not on any other medication, so I'm hoping this will be fairly trouble free.


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## BigRedSwitch

9.10am. 100mg Vit C - done.


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## BigRedSwitch

So, nearly an hour and a half on, I feel a bit warm, but that's about it. So far, done about 1.5 litres of water, but haven't eaten anything. Blood sugar is pretty high - insulin pump has already given me a corrective dose.

Can feel a bit of tension on my temples, though.

Don't know how long it takes to start working, but if this is the extent of it, I'll be well happy! 

Updates won't be as frequent as this in general - just thought I'd start with everything.


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## DiggyV

On 125mg - you will feel warm, and sweat more if you exercise - other than that shouldn't be too bad.


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## carrock

be interested to hear how you get on. I have been type 1 for 15 years- have taken Dbol in the past which was fairly well tolerated, also ECA stack.

Just ordered some DNP from DHacks and intending to start on 125mg, but not sure whether it will affect my bodies ability to process injected insulin.

I understand that clen is not suitable for T1s as it interferes with insulin uptake


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## BigRedSwitch

Lunchtime. So far, drunk nearing 3 litres of water, but not really feeling much difference. Don't feel especially hot, blood-sugars are OK at the reduced level (which I raised to 15% lower as at 25% I was running too high).

Just having my lunch - mackerel in spicy tomato sauce, a baked chicken breast and a muller light yoghurt. Also had a chocolate and hazlenut cookie. 

Total carbs - about 25.

Going to have more Vit C now too.

Was expecting to be able to feel it, tbh - at the moment, I feel it less than I did ECA...?


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## stryker007

think it will take a couple days before you really know how your dose will hit you... its building up in your system at this point. Personally my first signs were night sweats and a slight hotness in my eyes like I have a bit of a cold plus a very slightly sore throat


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## BigRedSwitch

Day 1 - 16.50. Can of Mackerel in Spicy Tomato sauce. 5 carbs.

Blood sugar raised a bit after lunch, but as my dose is 15% lower than normal, it's better than I'd expect.

There was a time for about 1/2 hour, where I felt a bit warmer, and I've just about made it through 4.5 litres of water, plus 3 cups of green tea so far today.

Will be going to the gym for some cardio (medium) and some basic weights. Still concerned I could cause overheating by kicking things up a notch. Once step at a time and all that.

Before I go, I'll be having the other half of my ALA dose, and a final hit of Vit C. I'll take the dioralyte home for post-workout.

Will be having a tuna omelette this evening for dinner, probably followed by another Muller Lite yoghurt.

No problems to report so far. May also nip to argos and buy myself some scales. Weighed myself at home on Friday and weighed 15 stone 10.5lbs, so would like to see losses to around 15 5lbs this week.

Does anyone ( @DiggyV ?) have any idea how long it's possible to run DNP? If I see the weight losses I'm after, and the sides stay negligible, I'll just stick with it until I've gotten rid of all the fat I want to...


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## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Day 1 - 16.50. Can of Mackerel in Spicy Tomato sauce. 5 carbs.
> 
> Blood sugar raised a bit after lunch, but as my dose is 15% lower than normal, it's better than I'd expect.
> 
> There was a time for about 1/2 hour, where I felt a bit warmer, and I've just about made it through 4.5 litres of water, plus 3 cups of green tea so far today.
> 
> Will be going to the gym for some cardio (medium) and some basic weights. Still concerned I could cause overheating by kicking things up a notch. Once step at a time and all that.
> 
> Before I go, I'll be having the other half of my ALA dose, and a final hit of Vit C. I'll take the dioralyte home for post-workout.
> 
> Will be having a tuna omelette this evening for dinner, probably followed by another Muller Lite yoghurt.
> 
> No problems to report so far. May also nip to argos and buy myself some scales. Weighed myself at home on Friday and weighed 15 stone 10.5lbs, so would like to see losses to around 15 5lbs this week.
> 
> Does anyone ( @DiggyV ?) have any idea how long it's possible to run DNP? If I see the weight losses I'm after, and the sides stay negligible, I'll just stick with it until I've gotten rid of all the fat I want to...


There is no real upper limit - people just get sick of the side and low carb diet - but as a Type 1 I guess you are used to that. I know people who have run it for 28 days, and one that ran for 6 weeks - none above this though. Not personally anyway. My longest was 21 days. Also remember that there is a nice anabolic rebound after taking DNP - roughly about a week after, so it may be worth cycling it and taking advantage of multiple rebounds. Even if you do 21 days on and 14 off or 28/14. I have run 21/14/14 on 250mg but was a sticky mess. :lol:

You may not see great losses in week one - week two onwards was where the majority of my losses have come when I have run it. As your carbs are low anyway you may well get better than average on week one, but dont be disappointed if this is not the case. In fact I lost more in the first week off than I did during teh first week on.


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## G-man99

100mg of Vit C??

I was on 3000mg a day


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## Guest

Subbed, interesting to see how you get on. And I agree with G-Man, you can safely up the dose of Vit C to well over 1000mg per day, I currently take 2000mg pd.


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## BigRedSwitch

G-man99 said:


> 100mg of Vit C??
> 
> I was on 3000mg a day


Typo - I've had 2x 1000mg already, with another 1000mg to come.


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## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> There is no real upper limit - people just get sick of the side and low carb diet - but as a Type 1 I guess you are used to that. I know people who have run it for 28 days, and one that ran for 6 weeks - none above this though. Not personally anyway. My longest was 21 days. Also remember that there is a nice anabolic rebound after taking DNP - roughly about a week after, so it may be worth cycling it and taking advantage of multiple rebounds. Even if you do 21 days on and 14 off or 28/14. I have run 21/14/14 on 250mg but was a sticky mess. :lol:
> 
> You may not see great losses in week one - week two onwards was where the majority of my losses have come when I have run it. As your carbs are low anyway you may well get better than average on week one, but dont be disappointed if this is not the case. In fact I lost more in the first week off than I did during teh first week on.


Fair enough.

I am very used to a low carb diet - the diet you've seen today I've been on for about 6 weeks, and it wasn't much more than that previously. As a T1, I've badly retained weight around my mid section - my brother, who is very similar build to me, but slightly shorter - doesn't have this issue. Insulin has done me in. :-(

My losses at the moment are appalling. I'm doing maybe 1lb a week, so if I start to see more than that, I'm all good.


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## BigRedSwitch

Evening meal went a bit off course, but remained low carb. 4 sausages a three egg tuna omelette (dry fried in a non-stick pan), and a muller lite yoghurt. In total, another 35 carbs, bringing the day's total to 60 carbs.

Blood sugar went up (as expected) during training this evening (doing weights always does that), and did 30 mins of cardio.

Back home now, and I still feel 'workout warm', but not so I'd notice.

So far so good. Wondering if I'm going to start feeling greater effects over the next couple of days as I reach a loaded state...?


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## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> My losses at the moment are appalling. I'm doing maybe 1lb a week, so if I start to see more than that, I'm all good.


1lb a week is actually OK for an unassisted diet. Its how I started, 1-1.5lb a week. Slow steady losses. I had a LOT to shift and in total it has taken me just over two years to do it. I started on DNP at the 15 month point I think, and ran for maybe 3 months in total with 3 cycles, just for a final push. Am now just trimming off the last few ponds, to get me where I want. I was 17.5 stone and had 38% body fat. I am now 15.1 stone and down to 17-18% body fat. I have lost 15Kg of 'weight', 26Kg of 'fat' and gained 11Kg of muscle. My goal is 12% body fat with a little more muscle, which I should have in the next four to six months. Would be good to have abs at 47 

I realise I dont have the added complication of being T1, and all the joy that the 'slin brings, but I would suggest that running it on shorter bursts with a break (and go back to 1lb a week) may server you better longer term, so you are not reliant on just DNP to keep the fat off.


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## BigRedSwitch

@DiggyV - sounds like good advice, mate!  I'm similar to that myself - I'm 6'5", started out at 19stone 6.5lbs, and since July last year I've been dumping the weight and building the muscle. Last weigh in I was 15stone 11lbs, and I'm lean aside from the 'slin based band of crap around my waist. Dumping that will get me sub-10%, I reckon.

Anyway - Log time! 

*Day 2*

Woke up this morning with a bit of a tension headache and a sore throat. I figure I'd dehydrated a little during the night.

This morning, have taken the dose and already downed about 3/4 of a pint of water, along with my first 1000mg of Vit-C, 800iu of Vit-E, half my ALA and one Dioralyte. Have a cup of green-tea sitting in front of me, and have hacked my way through about 300ml of water since I arrived at work.

I think I have a relatively high tolerance to heat, as I still wanted a hot shower this morning.

I feel a little more achy from the gym than I expected to be, but (and I'm sure this isn't DNP related), I felt quite 'powered up' last night, so maybe I just pushed it a bit further.

BGM's are good - 5.4 before I went to bed last night, which is a bit lower than I like to be, so I had 3 jelly babies (the recommended form of raw glucose for diabetics, unbelievably!). 6.3 when I woke up this morning. That's on 85% of my standard 'slin dose.

Will be monitoring today, as we're onto day 2. Wondering if I'm actually going to see gylcogen delete based on the combination of T1 and the heavy carb-restricted diet I'm already on?


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## BigRedSwitch

About 2 hours after second dose, and I'm definitely feeling hotter. My joints are aching a bit too - like I have flu or something. Aching muscles from last night's session are very evident too.

Had an office cookie (15 carbs), but won't be much more for the rest of the day.

Not sweating - just hot. Done nearly 2 litres of fluids today too.


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## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> About 2 hours after second dose, and I'm definitely feeling hotter. My joints are aching a bit too - like I have flu or something. Aching muscles from last night's session are very evident too.
> 
> Had an office cookie (15 carbs), but won't be much more for the rest of the day.
> 
> Not sweating - just hot. Done nearly 2 litres of fluids today too.


Sounds about right, on the heat. Peak wil be at 4-5 days, and then remain at that level until you stop - shouldn't get hotter.

Not had joint ache from DNP, is it all joints? Perhaps you do have flu! 

How is your BG?


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## BigRedSwitch

Oh, OK - I figured I'd see the biggest heat by day 3 due to half-life. 

As for the joints - I have trouble with my wrists and my knees (I think I've punished them too much over the years), and today I'm 'aware of them', if that makes any sense.

My BG is good - just did a test and I'm 7.8. I'm happy with that.


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## BigRedSwitch

Lunch today - 6 slices of pastrami, 10 mini chicken satay skewers, 1 baked chicken breast, 1 muller lite yoghurt, 1 cookie. Total carbs 25.

Had a top-up of Vit-C (1000mg), and feeling 'comfortably' warm. 

Carbs so far today - 40.


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## G-man99

Don't be fooled, the first 3 days or so you think this is easy and then BANG!!

I did this on last run of DNP when I went up to 500mg after 11 days on 250mg

Day 1 & 2, thinking easy enough.

Day 3 then I thought I wanted to lay in a cold bath all day!

I actually ended my run that day as it was horrible


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## Guest

Seems like this is going well, the BG readings are well within limits, and no noticeable sides from DNP, or should I say complications.

Remember you can get ketones from lack of carbs too, so i'd always keep some going in. You got a ketone meter, not sure if diet related ketones show up on it though. Although a ketone is a ketone so probably would. I'd check now and again, last thing you want is ketoacidosis.


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## BigRedSwitch

Yeah, I'm feeling warm and a bit "swollen" now - guess that is the water retention?

@G-man99 - I'm only on 125mg, though, so surely I shouldn't feel it as bad as you did?

It is significantly more noticable today, though - just hoping I don't blow a gasket or something tomorrow...!


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## G-man99

No it won't be as bad I'm sure, just stating that they first days it lulls you in to thinking it is pretty easy going.

To be honest I'm on day 16 today of 250mg and for the last 4-5 days wouldn't even realise I was on anything anymore


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## BigRedSwitch

Latest update - 17.51. All sides dying down now - quite nice timing as I'm off to the gym.

The only thing that remains seems to be a background 'stress' type headache (feels like I'm gritting my teeth). Other than that, I feel a bit swollen, which I assume is the water retention kicking in, but that's it.

Temperature is down, blood sugar is GTG, feeling pretty good!


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## BigRedSwitch

Gym session done - felt hot on the cross trainer, so only did 15 minutes. Still felt stronger than I was expecting to, to be honest.

Do seem to have developed some joint pain - have a night off the gym tomorrow, so will see if it subsides.

Sitting in the kitchen now, and I'm cool. No raised temp at all.

Meal this Evening is 8 satay sticks, chunky beef chilli (tomatoes and chilli purée), some fish sticks and a muller yoghurt. About 20 carbs, I reckon.


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## carrock

I queried the half life with d hacks and he reckons 8-12 hours- so a morning dose will be out the system by nighttime. I have just started on 1 x 125mg in the mornings. May double up to an evening dose after a couple more days to assess tolerance.


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## BigRedSwitch

@carrock - don't think that's 100% true; at least for me - I can still feel some of the sides a bit, plus my bgm's are lower. Had a low spot during the night last night - dropped to 3.5. Feel a bit flaky this morning because of that.

I'm still working on getting a full dose into my system. By the time I hit day 7, if I feel ok, I'll probably go up to 250mg, splitting the dose over the day.

Start on T3 today too. Interesting times ahead!


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## BigRedSwitch

*Day 3*

Read yesterday that taking DNP on an empty stomach was a bad thing to do, so have changed things around a bit today.

Started on T3, so took that on an empty stomach, then had breakfast of 1 crumpet (20 carbs) and a Muller Lite Yoghurt (15 carbs). Had my dioralyte, vit-c (1000mg), vit-e and ALA.

I am getting joint pains. My elbows are well used to the stresses of weight training, but I'm really feeling them at the moment. My wrists and knees are also affected. Seems this could be due to water retention, as the swelling apparently causes joint pain. Will have to keep an eye on it, though.

Stressful feeling in my head is still there, but less noticeable now.

Also, contrary to popular experience, rather than keeping me up with insomnia, I currently have *NO* staying power at all. I'm falling to sleep by 11pm, and I'm usually able to sustain well past midnight. I'm also sleeping VERY heavily - I have two alarms set for the morning and I entirely slept through one of them today. Had pretty lucid dreams too - and I'm generally not a dreamer.

As I mentioned above, my BGM was low when I woke up. Not really low (I've been sub 2.0 in the past), but 3.5, which isn't ideal. The insulin doses are going to need some adjusting. Today I've dropped to 80% of my normal dose to see how I get on.

I now have a fan at my desk at work. When the heat starts to rise, the fan goes on!


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## Marshan

DiggyV said:


> Sounds about right, on the heat. Peak wil be at 4-5 days, and then remain at that level until you stop - shouldn't get hotter.
> 
> Not had joint ache from DNP, is it all joints? Perhaps you do have flu!
> 
> How is your BG?


**Original post removed as it contained content that contravened UKM rules. Apologies!!


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## Foxy13

mixerD1 said:


> How are things Diggy? How did you order from Dhacks mate...I tried to make an order through paypal but paypal says ''recipients account (Dhacks) is currently inactive'' did you guys use paypal or what?


Paypal account has been removed as some fool made PP aware of what he was purchasing. AFAIK he's now only accepting bank transfers or moneygram.


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## ammo23

mixerD1 said:


> How are things Diggy? How did you order from Dhacks mate...I tried to make an order through paypal but paypal says ''recipients account (Dhacks) is currently inactive'' did you guys use paypal or what?


Dhacks doesnt use paypal anymore after the account was cancelled.


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## Marshan

Thank you very much lads..much appreciated. **Does anyone know of a way I can contact him to organise some other way of purchase then so?


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## BigRedSwitch

@mixerD1 - if you email him, he'll let you know.

Latest update from me:

Lunchtime, Day 3. Had a few low BG today, so have dropped to 80% of my standard basal 'slin rate. Not really feeling any heat today at all, which concerns me. Feel a bit bloated, and I'm thirsty, but that's it.

At about 10.30, had a can of Mackerel in Spicy Tomato Sauce.

For lunch, have had 100g pastrami, 5 mini satay sticks, 4x fish sticks, Muller Lite yoghurt, and some cashews.

If I'm still not really feeling it by next monday, I'll be doubling the dose to 250mg.

Just about to take my next vit-c too.


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## Marshan

Cheers BigRed...sorry for the hijack!!


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## DiggyV

mixerD1 said:


> How are things Diggy? How did you order from Dhacks mate...I tried to make an order through paypal but paypal says ''recipients account (Dhacks) is currently inactive'' did you guys use paypal or what?


Mate - you cant discuss this on here - pretty sure it breaks the rules. You can talk about the DHacks products, but not the DHacks site, or anything to do with the ordering process or any non DHacks products like any AAS or GH he may or may not sell.


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## stryker007

I'm currently doing a cycle using 250mg tabs... I'd previously took a tab for three days to make sure I was ok with this batch, no bad reactions. On days 1 & 2 I took one in the AM and one in the PM, I wanted to speed myself into having a reasonable dosage in my system rather than spending best part of the week seeing the dosage creep up towards the 650mg residual in my system owing to the 36 hour half life.... on day 3 I only took the AM tab and from then on alternated between taking AM / PM and AM only... I think taking 2 a day throughout would be too much.... As expected during day 3 I was really feeling it, feeling hot all day so that confirmed taking 1 that day was right... When the effects come on they do seem quiet sudden as in you suddenly realise your some what hot but no idea when it started... and remember at that point your probably only going to get hotter as the dnp is absorbed.


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## Marshan

Balls, cheers DiggyV, I forgot about that.. @Milky...is it possible to remove my post mate? I made a boo-boo!!


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## DiggyV

mixerD1 said:


> Balls, cheers DiggyV, I forgot about that.. @Milky...is it possible to remove my post mate? I made a boo-boo!!


you can do it yourself, click on the edit post button, and there is a delete option in there, or just edit it to say 'Post removed as contravened UK-M rules - mixerD1' it doesn't affect your post count then, and you look like a goody two shoes :lol:


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## Marshan

DiggyV said:


> you can do it yourself, click on the edit post button, and there is a delete option in there, or just edit it to say 'Post removed as contravened UK-M rules - mixerD1' it doesn't affect your post count then, and you look like a goody two shoes :lol:


Gent Diggy!!


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## carrock

ammo23 said:


> Dhacks doesnt use paypal anymore after the account was cancelled.


Speaking in general terms I would suggest it would be simplest to contact the seller by email and ask him for his bank details.


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## hackskii

Question for BigRed, does the DNP lower your BG?

I would assume it would as fuel for energy is being used.


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## DiggyV

mixerD1 said:


> Thank you very much lads..much appreciated. **Does anyone know of a way I can contact him to organise some other way of purchase then so?


Also this is a no no - sorry mate....


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## hackskii

Lets keep the asking of where, and how much out of this ok guys?


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## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> Question for BigRed, does the DNP lower your BG?
> 
> I would assume it would as fuel for energy is being used.


Yes, mate - absolutely. When I'm doing my updates, I'm trying to mention this as much as possible (principally as I've never found anything that resembles someone doing the same thing and logging it online). I'm on an insulin pump, so I have basal rates (which are my base settings - delivered over the course of the full day), and for meals, I bolus (give myself a dose).

Before starting DNP, I did as much research as I could, and I found some articles which mentioned the 'potential use of DNP as an additive therapy for insulin dependent diabetics'. The issues most of them found was the fact that dosing is a very fine line, and have a disastrous outcome if not done properly. That's essentially why I'm on the lowest dose possible from d-hacks.

So far, I've lowered by basal settings by 20%, and every time I bolus (for food), it's sending me hypo. I'm having to underestimate the carbs to the insulin pump in order to prevent this. I don't want to change my settings, as I'm only doing this for 2-3 weeks max for this run, so once that is up, the insulin requirements will return to normal.

Are you diabetic, mate?


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## hackskii

No, not diabetic, but I understand the relationship of carbs to insulin, and the Glycemic index, the insulin index, and the glycemic load.

Beings you are on the pump probably suggests that you are insulin resistant right?

Well, now doubt as you are a diabetic.

I do have another question, if you went on a full ketogenic diet, you would seriously lower the amount of insulin you use each day correct?

Or is ketoacidosis something that you might be afraid of being diabetic?

I love these kind of journals.


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## carrock

hackskii said:


> No, not diabetic, but I understand the relationship of carbs to insulin, and the Glycemic index, the insulin index, and the glycemic load.
> 
> Beings you are on the pump probably suggests that you are insulin resistant right?
> 
> Well, now doubt as you are a diabetic.
> 
> I do have another question, if you went on a full ketogenic diet, you would seriously lower the amount of insulin you use each day correct?
> 
> Or is ketoacidosis something that you might be afraid of being diabetic?
> 
> I love these kind of journals.


I am also type 1 and have just started my dnp.

In effect what the DNP is doing is prevent much of the carbs ingested from raising blood sugar, thus reducing the amount of insulin required, and burning fat via raised metabolism as I understand it.

It's a bit like going on a protein only diet and spending 12 hours a day jogging on a treadmill.

I find 125mg easily tolerated as I am used to feeling hot when my blood sugar is low ( or high ) so may jack it up to 250 after the 3rd day.

I am still confused as to how long dhacks dnp stays in the system- anywhere from 8 to 36 hours which seems very vague.....


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## hackskii

I myself would not modify any dose unless you have been on that dose for 3 days.

I have heard of guys saying I dont feel anything, so they ramp it up, then Bang it hits them like a hammer.


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## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> No, not diabetic, but I understand the relationship of carbs to insulin, and the Glycemic index, the insulin index, and the glycemic load.
> 
> Beings you are on the pump probably suggests that you are insulin resistant right?
> 
> Well, now doubt as you are a diabetic.
> 
> I do have another question, if you went on a full ketogenic diet, you would seriously lower the amount of insulin you use each day correct?
> 
> Or is ketoacidosis something that you might be afraid of being diabetic?
> 
> I love these kind of journals.


No, I'm not insulin resistant - that's Type 2 Diabetic. I'm a Type 1 - I have a total lack of insulin, but my body works fine with it.

I'm on a pump as my son was also diagnosed as Type 1 when he was 20 months old (I was 3 years old - been type 1 for 36 years now). They like you to be on the same treatment as your kids, so they have less of an issue dealing with it, which meant I moved to a pump after 35 years of using standard injected insulin. Works for me, though, as it's a much more natural way to control one's blood sugar.

I'm not worried about ketoacidosis - I can recognise the signs. I also test with a keto machine to make sure I'm all good. Basically, as long as my bloodsugars are level, my body *should* function much the same as anyone else.


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## Just_Bob

carrock said:


> I am also type 1 and have just started my dnp.
> 
> In effect what the DNP is doing is prevent much of the carbs ingested from raising blood sugar, thus reducing the amount of insulin required, and burning fat via raised metabolism as I understand it.
> 
> It's a bit like going on a protein only diet and spending 12 hours a day jogging on a treadmill.
> 
> I find 125mg easily tolerated as I am used to feeling hot when my blood sugar is low ( or high ) so may jack it up to 250 after the 3rd day.
> 
> I am still confused as to how long dhacks dnp stays in the system- anywhere from 8 to 36 hours which seems very vague.....


The half life is 36 hours.


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## carrock

Just_Bob said:


> The half life is 36 hours.


So it takes 72 hours 3 days to be out the system, assuming a linear decay

Explains why day 3 is always the worst then, as there are residual dosage from day 1, plus a full days dose dose from day 2, PLUS a full day 3 dose all in the system. So on day 2 of a 125 mg dose I have about 180mg in my system and will have a bit more tomorrow


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## Just_Bob

carrock said:


> So it takes 72 hours 3 days to be out the system, assuming a linear decay
> 
> Explains why day 3 is always the worst then, as there are residual dosage from day 1, plus a full days dose dose from day 2, PLUS a full day 3 dose all in the system. So on day 2 of a 125 mg dose I have about 180mg in my system and will have a bit more tomorrow


Ye exactly. Diggyv has a brilliant spreadsheet showing all the carry over from previous days and how it peaks and levels out after 4 or 5 days. He may send it to you if you ask


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## carrock

I have seen that but am still a bit puzzled as to why dhacks claimed his product is out the system in 8 to 12 hours. Assuming then all dnp regardless of source has the same half life?

What I am taking is pressed tablets rather than capsules


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## BigRedSwitch

*DAY 3 - Last Night*

Was out with my mate for his birthday in Liverpool. We went to a restaurant called 'Bem Brazil', which basically focuses on meat. The waiters just keep coming to your table armed with swords (!) of meat, carving you off a bit if you want it. I thought this would work perfectly for me, and I was still relatively low when I was ready to leave, but then my blood-sugars went crazy, and I ended up at 14.2 @ 3am, and was having to go to the bathroom about every 90 minutes.

Have no idea why this is (don't think it's DNP related), but I'm pretty good with my carb calcs (35 years of training), yet it took some fighting to get it to come down. Obviously I wasn't drinking (I don't really drink anyway), avoided dessert, and ate very few carbs (one tiny bit of Garlic Bread and about half a basket of fries).

*Day 4 - 02/05/2013*

Feeling tired today, but that's mostly due to my BGM issues last night. Was pretty hot during the night too - I suspect that the food I ate had carbs in the marinades or something which messed me up. 

Have a general feeling of heat all the time now - being in anything other than the lower side of ambient temperatures is making me feel somewhat stuffy, so it's obviously working up.

Reading posts from @G-man99, he suggests that days 4 and 5 are pretty bad, so I'm interested to see what happens today.

So far, had my T3, Muller Lite Yoghurt for breakfast, DNP tab, 1000mg Vit-C, 800ui Vit-E, ALA and Dioralyte.

I'm off out to dinner with my folks tonight, then off to the gym. I realise that it's generally better to do it the other way around, but my folks are in their 60's, and 'want to be getting home by about 8pm' (!)

In general, I still feel fine, albeit a little warm.

BGM back down to high 8's right now - that's still at 80% of standard basal rate. Hopefully that'll drop down over the next few hours.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Been in meetings all morning, and it seems my BGM has tanked a bit (3.6). That's fine, and resolved, but it seems there was something odd going on with the food last night.

So the major effect of DNP on me so far seems to be thirst. I'm REALLY thirsty, and I also feel a bit short of breath. Does that sound normal @DiggyV ?


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Been in meetings all morning, and it seems my BGM has tanked a bit (3.6). That's fine, and resolved, but it seems there was something odd going on with the food last night.
> 
> So the major effect of DNP on me so far seems to be thirst. I'm REALLY thirsty, and I also feel a bit short of breath. Does that sound normal @DiggyV ?


Yup - welcome to the world of DNP. 

Shortness of breath is quite common I get it quite bad with 250mg, and is certainly there on 125mg. Get some more water in you - on 125mg you should be looking at 4 litres I would suggest. You will get accustomed with the breathing, and may not notice it after a while.

Do you think there may have been any coatings on the meats you were not aware of? I have been to Brazilian restaurants and think I can remember various flavourings, and wonder whether some either had cornflour in them, or the meat was rolled in flour before cooking? Could this have accounted for the BG spike?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> Yup - welcome to the world of DNP.
> 
> Shortness of breath is quite common I get it quite bad with 250mg, and is certainly there on 125mg. Get some more water in you - on 125mg you should be looking at 4 litres I would suggest. You will get accustomed with the breathing, and may not notice it after a while.
> 
> Do you think there may have been any coatings on the meats you were not aware of? I have been to Brazilian restaurants and think I can remember various flavourings, and wonder whether some either had cornflour in them, or the meat was rolled in flour before cooking? Could this have accounted for the BG spike?


I'm hammering the water, mate - I'm in for 2 litres already today, and I reckon there's at least 3 more to go. 

Yeah, I totally think it was coatings, although I did try to avoid ones which sounded sugary. Stuck with chilli and garlic, but still messed me up. 

The breathing thing is odd - not something that's bothering me (although I expect it will when I do my cardio this evening!), but I'm pleased the DNP seems to be working, as there aren't really any sign of the other major sides (I'm still mostly cold at night). That said, I do get 'waves' of it - does that sound right?

Quite interested to see if I've lost any weight when I do my weigh in on Saturday. Can't see that much of a difference, but I am swollen (a ring which usually fits on my middle finger will only fit on my index finger now), so I guess we'll see.

Apparently days 4 and 5 are as bad as it gets. If that's the case (will let you know on day 6  ), I'll do a 3 week cycle.

Lunch today was can of mackerel in spicy tomato sauce, 10 fish sticks and a miller lite yoghurt. Carbs = 20.


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> I'm hammering the water, mate - I'm in for 2 litres already today, and I reckon there's at least 3 more to go.
> 
> Yeah, I totally think it was coatings, although I did try to avoid ones which sounded sugary. Stuck with chilli and garlic, but still messed me up.
> 
> The breathing thing is odd - not something that's bothering me (although I expect it will when I do my cardio this evening!), but I'm pleased the DNP seems to be working, as there aren't really any sign of the other major sides (I'm still mostly cold at night). That said, I do get 'waves' of it - does that sound right?
> 
> Quite interested to see if I've lost any weight when I do my weigh in on Saturday. Can't see that much of a difference, but I am swollen (a ring which usually fits on my middle finger will only fit on my index finger now), so I guess we'll see.
> 
> Apparently days 4 and 5 are as bad as it gets. If that's the case (will let you know on day 6  ), I'll do a 3 week cycle.
> 
> Lunch today was can of mackerel in spicy tomato sauce, 10 fish sticks and a miller lite yoghurt. Carbs = 20.


yes heat in waves is about right - well was for me - you will hold water hence the swollen fingers - might be worth upping the VitC - I use 3g a day every day for diuretic anyway and it works great for me. Perhaps do 2g in the morning and 2g in the afternoon? And as per some of my previous posts in other threads - I really lost the weight form week 2 onwards,and lost more in my first week off DNP than I did in my first week on it. SO dont expect miracles in week 1.

Day 5 is pretty much the peak as far as residuals goes. if you are OK at this point you should be OK for a longer run. Good Luck Big Red.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 4 - update*

Had to work late tonight, so had some dinner there. Steak and Ale pie (just a pastry top) and green veg. About 15 carbs.

About 30 mins later, I went to the gym.

At first it was a bit tough. Couldn't get as much air as I needed, so had to take it easy on the cardio. Still did 30 mins, but spread it across Cross Trainer, Bike and Treadmill. Then did some middle-weight weights.

Ended up feeling OK - I'm not too warm, plenty hydrated, all good, really! 

One thing, though - seems one of the sides decided to bite me on the ass today. Well, in the ass! Ladies and Gentlemen - the schlitz have arrived! BOOOOOM! :-S


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 4 - update*
> 
> Had to work late tonight, so had some dinner there. Steak and Ale pie (just a pastry top) and green veg. About 15 carbs.
> 
> About 30 mins later, I went to the gym.
> 
> At first it was a bit tough. Couldn't get as much air as I needed, so had to take it easy on the cardio. Still did 30 mins, but spread it across Cross Trainer, Bike and Treadmill. Then did some middle-weight weights.
> 
> Ended up feeling OK - I'm not too warm, plenty hydrated, all good, really!
> 
> One thing, though - seems one of the sides decided to bite me on the ass today. Well, in the ass! Ladies and Gentlemen - the schlitz have arrived! BOOOOOM! :-S


Sounds like your dealing with it fine at the monent. You gona keep it at 125 as the sides are ok? Or thinking of upping it? Im on day 2 of 125 but not feeling any heat yet, im a but stuffy now but its quite warm in essex tonight!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> Sounds like your dealing with it fine at the monent. You gona keep it at 125 as the sides are ok? Or thinking of upping it? Im on day 2 of 125 but not feeling any heat yet, im a but stuffy now but its quite warm in essex tonight!


Yeah, I'm sticking with it for at least 2 weeks, as at the moment it's completely manageable. Apparently, if I get through tomorrow with no real issues, I should be good on this dose for the long term. Taking @DiggyV 's advice, I'm waiting until the end of next week (a week on saturday) to see what is really coming off. There are a lot of reports of people just 'getting used' to a dose, and the sides not really affecting them at all anymore - if I hit that point, I'll think about upping it.

The key issue being that, as well as I'm doing with it, it's still fundamentally a poison. If I make it to Saturday 11th and I've lost what I consider to be a reasonable amount of weight, I'll probably just keep going as is, tbh. I mean, why rush it if you're not really noticing it, right? My main reason for using DNP was the fact that it *ONLY* strips fat. Looking at my physique, it's clearly not catabolic, so it's just a case of trucking through until all the weight is gone.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 5*

Went for a spin class this morning at 6.15am. Was fine, really. No difficulties at all.

Got to work, took my T3, ALA, Vit-C, Vit-E and Dioralyte. Then had a Muller Lite Yoghurt for breakfast. Blood sugars all good @ 80% basal rate.

Took my DNP about 20 minutes after the above, and have already felt a 'wave of heat'. OK, though.

Drink about 750ml of water so far (as well as workout water), so hydration is all on.

Feeling pretty good, all in. Still a bit swollen, but it's less noticable now.

Think the T3 may be giving me a bit more energy, as when I'm doing weights I can 'dig deep' for the last bits of power to finish my usual 'fail' sets - big issue being that the burn is MUCH worse and seems like a different kind of pain...? Almost like an injury, but I'm thinking that could be due to retained water...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Bit hungry this morning, so have had a crumpet too. Carbs so far today, 35.

I love a bit of Crumpet.


----------



## carrock

i am on day 4 taking 125mg of DNP daily, also Type 1

Have felt a bit lethargic last 2 days so have started taking T3 this morning.

Not sure whether to up the dose of DNP to 250, or to stay the same, or to have a break after 7 days, or what. I'm guessing with a low dose of 125mg theres no problem staying on for a month or so.

Feel slightly warm but no more so than when taking eph


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> i am on day 4 taking 125mg of DNP daily, also Type 1
> 
> Have felt a bit lethargic last 2 days so have started taking T3 this morning.
> 
> Not sure whether to up the dose of DNP to 250, or to stay the same, or to have a break after 7 days, or what. I'm guessing with a low dose of 125mg theres no problem staying on for a month or so.
> 
> Feel slightly warm but no more so than when taking eph


Feeding from the wealth of information about DNP on the internet, I'm just planning to see how it goes. So far, my experiences have been similar to that of @DiggyV, so if that continues, I should see *some* weight-loss at my weigh in tomorrow morning, followed by more next week.

I can't find it now, but I found a proper medical study of use of DNP (lab controlled) on 3 overweight individuals. The tests and results suggested that they were retained on a low dose for a good 3 months, so as long as you're not having any major issues, I'd suspect there won't be a problem.

I'm doing it for at least 3 weeks, possibly a month, then coming off for a month, then (if I still need to) doing it again. All depends on the results over the next few weeks, really...


----------



## carrock

I have a Caribbean holiday on the 18th June, so I might stay on until early June, which will be a 5 week cycle, then continue taking t3 for a week after end of cycle, then should get rid of excess water just in time for the beach.

Don't want to take DNP or T3 through airport security for obvious reasons....


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> i am on day 4 taking 125mg of DNP daily, also Type 1
> 
> Have felt a bit lethargic last 2 days so have started taking T3 this morning.
> 
> Not sure whether to up the dose of DNP to 250, or to stay the same, or to have a break after 7 days, or what. I'm guessing with a low dose of 125mg theres no problem staying on for a month or so.
> 
> Feel slightly warm but no more so than when taking eph


Doing it for a week you may not notice any great losses. I have mentioned in this thread before that my losses the week after stopping were greater than my losses in week 1 of being on it. You may well hold a lot of water as well, which will mask any losses. The Vit C should help, but also Coffee is pretty good as a diuretic as well. Week 2 onwards is where you really start noticing the weight start to move. a 3 week cycle is great sas you will get 2 full weeks of good losses, plus the week following you will lose more and then you will get a small anabolic rebound so will actually gain a little muscle as well - not a lot mind you :lol:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

My wife has said for years that I'm full of sh!t. Turns out she was actually right.

WOW! That just happened! :blink:


----------



## Foxy13

3 Weeks on 125mg, I think that's what I'm gonna run. Just an easy (hopefully) first cycle, test my tolerance and see what way I react to certain types of food on it. Hopefully see a few kg off in that space of time. Realistic on that dose?


----------



## carrock

I'm wondering whether its worth introducing a bit of creatine after coming off just to pump up a little bit.

Might give it a go


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> My wife has said for years that I'm full of sh!t. Turns out she was actually right.
> 
> WOW! That just happened! :blink:


Ahh - did I not mention that! :lol:

You may get the shits for a couple of days - it does settle back down again. It was in my DNP journal I think. Just make sure you dont fart without being on the toilet for the next couple of days or it will almost certainly be a shart, if you see what I mean.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> Ahh - did I not mention that! :lol:
> 
> You may get the shits for a couple of days - it does settle back down again. It was in my DNP journal I think. Just make sure you dont fart without being on the toilet for the next couple of days or it will almost certainly be a shart, if you see what I mean.


Hahaha! Yeah, you did mention that - I just thought I'd escaped as I'm 5 days in...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Lunch today -

100g Pastrami, 5 mini chicken satay sticks, 10 fish-sticks. Carbs = nil points.

BG = 5.4; all gooood. 

Just had to do a big team presentation - it's hot in our office and I was away from the fan. Could feel myself start to light up...

Another 1000mg of Vit-C down too.


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> Bit hungry this morning, so have had a crumpet too. Carbs so far today, 35.
> 
> I love a bit of Crumpet.


Any extra heat/sweats after the crumpet?


----------



## G-man99

carrock said:


> I have a Caribbean holiday on the 18th June, so I might stay on until early June, which will be a 5 week cycle, then continue taking t3 for a week after end of cycle, then should get rid of excess water just in time for the beach.
> 
> Don't want to take DNP or T3 through airport security for obvious reasons....


I'm off to Mexico 1st August and I'm taking T3 with me, Pharma grade


----------



## G-man99

I've continued my run and will take final dose tonight, have gone up to 500mg for last few days and not been that bad really.

Concerned that the stuff I had has maybe degraded slightly and that is why effects are not extreme any more???

Weight loss, especially body fat has flown off me.

Lots of people commenting and my abs are visible now (1st time in many years!!!)

I have introduced carbs in to my diet from last sunday and on approx 150g daily now and feel better for it


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> Any extra heat/sweats after the crumpet?


No, nothing, tbh. The heat doesn't seem to be related to any particular thing - it just comes and goes in waves.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

G-man99 said:


> I've continued my run and will take final dose tonight, have gone up to 500mg for last few days and not been that bad really.
> 
> Concerned that the stuff I had has maybe degraded slightly and that is why effects are not extreme any more???
> 
> Weight loss, especially body fat has flown off me.
> 
> Lots of people commenting and my abs are visible now (1st time in many years!!!)
> 
> I have introduced carbs in to my diet from last sunday and on approx 150g daily now and feel better for it


I'd be concerned at this point to go to 250mg, mate, so if you do order some new stuff, give it a week to be sure your last batch wasn't dodgy, yeah?


----------



## G-man99

Don't worry, 250mg is my limit normally. My last run I went to 500mg only for last 3 days.

I read the signs very well and have waited 17 days at this dose


----------



## Dr Gearhead

G-man99 said:


> Don't worry, 250mg is my limit normally. My last run I went to 500mg only for last 3 days.
> 
> I read the signs very well and have waited 17 days at this dose


I'm tempted to go to 500 for my last couple of days, been at 375 for about 5 days and it's not really any different than 250 in terms of how I feel. The only thing stopping me is I've been getting real bad stomach ache especially after eating, couldn't stand to make that worse.

Interesting you feel better on carbs, I've upped mine to 150 too and feel miles better than at the 50g mark


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Dr Gearhead said:


> I'm tempted to go to 500 for my last couple of days, been at 375 for about 5 days and it's not really any different than 250 in terms of how I feel. The only thing stopping me is I've been getting real bad stomach ache especially after eating, couldn't stand to make that worse.
> 
> Interesting you feel better on carbs, I've upped mine to 150 too and feel miles better than at the 50g mark


What's your progress, Doc? Is the weight falling off?


----------



## Dr Gearhead

BigRedSwitch said:


> What's your progress, Doc? Is the weight falling off?


Hiya mate,

I'm down from 15.6 to 14.1. I've been on 4 weeks with a week to go, I didn't intend to run it this long but for the first 2 weeks I was off work on holiday and me and the girl just ate tons of crap so I felt they were wasted weeks. I didn't really see much change in the first 2 weeks which was no surprise but the last two weeks since I sorted myself out it's moving big time. Aiming for 2500 cals a day, sometimes I'm a bit under, sometimes a bit over. I am trying to low carb on my days at work and eat around the 150g mark on my training days.

Can just about see my abs now, I am def leaner than I;ve ever been so even if I don't get the full six pack in the week I've got left I will be very happy. In all honesty I will prob run a 3 week high dose course sometime in june maybe to finish what I started, gonna try and keep the cals the same when I come off and see if I can loose a bit more natty.

I'm having a cheat night tomorrow which is more for my mental sanity than anything, pizza hut and mega dessert !!

My training's been ****e though pretty much all way through.


----------



## Foxy13

The results are mind blowing. Have to get on this ASAP.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

Foxy13 said:


> The results are mind blowing. Have to get on this ASAP.


They are but it demands ultimate respect and total commitment, make sure you do your homework first (as I'm sure you will).


----------



## carrock

Foxy13 said:


> The results are mind blowing. Have to get on this ASAP.


I would start on 125 mg, wait for at least 5 days before you even think about adjusting the dosage. Builds up in the body so will be 4 days before you feel the effect of the cumulative dosage.


----------



## G-man99

Dr Gearhead said:


> They are but it demands ultimate respect and total commitment, make sure you do your homework first (as I'm sure you will).


Not being funny but that totally contradicts what your posts state!!

You ate rubbish for 2 weeks and then having a planned cheat meal whilst still running it :confused1:


----------



## Foxy13

I've been studying just about every log I can find online, as well as reading studies online, speaking to past users etc. When I do it, I'll be prepared.


----------



## carrock

lots of scaremongering but if it is used sensibly it is as safe as taking paracetamol.

If used recklessly, it is also as dangerous as taking paracetamol.......

As you long as you take a sensible dosage and keep hydrated and don't overdo the carbs or exercise at a high level, you should be ok


----------



## Dr Gearhead

G-man99 said:


> Not being funny but that totally contradicts what your posts state!!
> 
> You ate rubbish for 2 weeks and then having a planned cheat meal whilst still running it :confused1:


true but I made sure I was very well hydrated and had all the vits, T3 and other supps on the go. The diet affected the results but not how the dnp sides impacted me.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

As I live during the week in Cheshire, but my family home is in Surrey (despite being from the North-East!!), I undertook the weekly trek home this evening. This always throws my diet off a bit, as I generally get pretty bored, which makes me think of food. 

So, from leaving work today, I've had:

5 chicken mcnuggets (sacrificed one to the 'diet gods'), a medium skinny latte and caramel waffles from starbucks, and now I'm home, just had a chicken Caesar salad. Not terrible (about 80 carbs total), but that's pushed me up to beyond the 100 carbs limit. I also had a hypo (my boluses - the insulin doses with food - are a bit wobbly at the moment), so I've had to have 4 jelly babies too. Side effect of being diabetic, unfortunately.

I'm feeling warm now. I'm fine, but a bit warm. Still hydrating. Have had the full compliment of vit-c and all the rest of the stuff I need too.

Figure I'm ok on the diet - for a calorie defecit, I'm still miles off what I could eat...!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 6*

Obviously the carbs from yesterday got me a bit later on. A bit warm, but ok. Generally feeling quite warm in general, but I'm home now, so no fans, and can't leave the bedroom window open as her indoors will get chilly.

Had the usual dose this morning.

Food so far is 2 scrambled eggs post T3, but pre DNP, then a dry fried egg on a single slice of whole meal toast for actual breakfast (ok, so cheated a bit and had a bit of LURPAK too, but wasn't that much). Carbs - 15g.

Weigh in this morning and I'd lost 2.5 lbs after 5 days. I'm pleased with that, as I'm still feeling swollen, but I do feet 'tighter', so the weight is evidently more than it seems, and all fat. Wooooo! 

Blood sugars dropping again. Dropped basal to 75% of my standard (that's the lowest I've ever gone), so I'm feeling secretly smug about that. I'm also not counting any carbs I'm having ti take to correct these against my daily totals. That said, there aren't that many...

So, 2.5lbs in 5 days, and that was the build up week too - this stuff rocks! Excited to see what I achieve next week!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Oh, one thing I should mention and ask about ( @DiggyV ) is my sleep. I'm getting to about 11pm, then falling to sleep and sleeping *incredibly* heavily. Heavier than I've slept before in my entire life. I assume this is because of the affect of DNP on the thyroid hormone, which is why I'm taking the T3, right?

Just wanted to make sure it's not something I should be worried about?


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 6*
> 
> Obviously the carbs from yesterday got me a bit later on. A bit warm, but ok. Generally feeling quite warm in general, but I'm home now, so no fans, and can't leave the bedroom window open as her indoors will get chilly.
> 
> Had the usual dose this morning.
> 
> Food so far is 2 scrambled eggs post T3, but pre DNP, then a dry fried egg on a single slice of whole meal toast for actual breakfast (ok, so cheated a bit and had a bit of LURPAK too, but wasn't that much). Carbs - 15g.
> 
> Weigh in this morning and I'd lost 2.5 lbs after 5 days. I'm pleased with that, as I'm still feeling swollen, but I do feet 'tighter', so the weight is evidently more than it seems, and all fat. Wooooo!
> 
> Blood sugars dropping again. Dropped basal to 75% of my standard (that's the lowest I've ever gone), so I'm feeling secretly smug about that. I'm also not counting any carbs I'm having ti take to correct these against my daily totals. That said, there aren't that many...
> 
> So, 2.5lbs in 5 days, and that was the build up week too - this stuff rocks! Excited to see what I achieve next week!


Good stuff mate. Looking forward to hearing how you get on in a weeks time.


----------



## G-man99

You should be grateful as my sleep is always disturbed on DNP


----------



## BigRedSwitch

@G-man99 - yeah, mate - I'd heard that, but I think it's the fact I'm only on a low dose. I'm feeling a bit lethargic in general, but come 11pm, and it's like someone just switches me off! :-S


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Also tested my ketones this morning - 0.6. Anything under 2.0 is fine.


----------



## KickeyMouse

Just_Bob said:


> Good stuff mate. Looking forward to hearing how you get on in a weeks time.


yeah im in 7th day of dnp 250mg ed (taking the 250mg tab in morning) and still cant really sleep at night.... like cant reach that "deep sleep phase"

not much sweating while in bed but laying there and feels like 20 mins passed ---> take a look at the clock 2 hours 30 minutes passed?! guess i just slept because it didnt feel so long time :tongue:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

11am protein shake.

12.30pm 3 egg tuna omelette.

Loads of water and another shot of vit-c.

Feel short of breath again today - otherwise all good.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

BigRedSwitch said:


> Feel short of breath again today - otherwise all good.


I had that real bad earlier on in the week, never really understood what the root cause was but it's passed, been replaced with crippling indegestion  , too much cherry pepsi max me thinks. Rennies seems to be helping a lot.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Dr Gearhead said:


> I had that real bad earlier on in the week, never really understood what the root cause was but it's passed, been replaced with crippling indegestion  , too much cherry pepsi max me thinks. Rennies seems to be helping a lot.


Well, apparently on higher doses, you feel like you're running 24/7. I guess it's just the 'low level' version of that. It makes you sweat like buggery when you're doing cardio, though.

Today was my cheat day. Had a little bit of chocolate caramel shortbread, and a home made cheeseburger (both scaled to have minimal impact, though!) total carbs, about 70 ish, I think. Always more difficult at the weekend.

I was in Asda buying more meat (I'd also just bought some engine oil and WD40, so was feeling super-macho!), and I was getting quite hot. Had to abandon my shopping at one point and go take my jacket back to the car... 

Dinner this evening will be beef chilli and a few fries. Total days carbs should still be sub 150.

Actually struggling with lows today. The DNP is making its presence known. I think I'm going to have to adjust my bolus ratio too...

Staying well hydrated. In pretty good shape, I think - its not 11pm yet, though...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 7*

After what felt like tonnes of carbs yesterday, I've been feeling the heat a bit. Actually, all the strictly physical sides (shortness of breath etc) have been making their presence known. I'm ok, though.

I have to say that, in my opinion, it'd actually be worth sticking to a zero carb diet during DNP use. The difference the restricted carbs makes is actually quite incredible. I think that we're I able to commit to that at weekends (difficult when you're wife and kids are continually eating!), I could easily handle 250mg - maybe more.

Today, I've had the standard supplements to the DNP, a miller lite yoghurt, and two slices of whole meal toast with a little butter. Cars = 30g. Gonna try to keep it under 100 today, but we'll see how it does.

Sleep is horrifically heavy (and a little sweaty too), but I'm feeling pretty rested in the morning. That'd probably be the thing that put me off upping the dose, tbh - I'm happy with the sleep.

The dumb and dumber style laxative effect seems to have stopped now - unless it was actually just the case that I was completely emptied out, and things will become mobile again shortly.

Muscles look like they've practically disappeared with two days away from the gym, but I guess that's part of the glycogen delete thing anyway. Not right happy about it, mind.

Blood sugars are all good - a little high this morning, but I did have a big dinner last night (mostly meat, though).

Other than that, all good. When I get back to work and can 100% control my diet, should see some more impressive losses... Hopefully!


----------



## Just_Bob

Im with you on the dissapearing muscles. I just got called skinny by someone i havnt seen in a few months. Feel low lol


----------



## Dr Gearhead

have you guys noticed any water retention ?

I have a layer of what I hope is water over my abs, it feels very mobile and not more viscous like fat but maybe it's just wishful thinking. I'm assuming the bulk of any water retention would be around the mid section ?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Loads of water retention, tbh. If you read back through my log, you'll see me complaining about aching joints. That's because I'm swollen to hell and back. I can't get rings off my fingers and all that kinda thing either.

I can't speak for specific locations - the 5% body fat I need to lose is pretty much ALL around my waist, so I am quite loose around there anyway, but it certainly could be what's affecting you...

*Day 7 - Update*

Lunch was 4 home-made beef burgers (mince, egg, bit of onion) and a bit of ketchup.

Temperatures subsided. Aside from feeling like I've got hands the size of Tom Cruise (proportionally, anyway) in Tropic Thunder, And feeling pretty tired, I couldn't even tell I was using DNP, to be honest...

Dinner is going to be meatballs (made from the same stuff as the burgers) in a tomato pasta sauce. A little carbs in the sauce (as with the ketchup), but not much. Probably 10 carbs between the two meals...

Also had a few digestives at about 3.30 to maintain by BGM. Total was 25 carbs.

All good in da hood.


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Oh, one thing I should mention and ask about ( @DiggyV ) is my sleep. I'm getting to about 11pm, then falling to sleep and sleeping *incredibly* heavily. Heavier than I've slept before in my entire life. I assume this is because of the affect of DNP on the thyroid hormone, which is why I'm taking the T3, right?
> 
> Just wanted to make sure it's not something I should be worried about?


I sleep better on DNP as well TBH, sweat like a bugger but sleep well (or better than normal anyway) Its unlikely to be thyroid, as low thyroid tends to make you lethargic rather than sleepy - I know a couple of people with hypothyroidism and if they stop taking their T4 they basically shut doen, but not additional sleep as far as I am aware.

Also could be just because the higher metabolic rate from DNP is just exhausting you a little more during the day, and you are sleeping more as a normal consequence. If your bloods are good then shodlu all be OK mate.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Cool, cheers, mate - that makes me feel better. Thanks again for all of your excellent advice and guidance to get me started - being the first type 1, I have to say, I was more than a little apprehensive!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 8*

The usual setup followed this morning. I've been noticing some changes, too.

First off, I don't know if it's the water retention, but as the days are going by, I can see the veins in my forearms. Little change, as yet, to my waist (measured) which is where the remaining 5% I have to lose actually lives.

The fat around my waist is weird, really. It now feels like a bum-bag or something, it's that loose. Every other area of my body feels taut and well developed, and it's an odd (and uncomfortable) contrast.

So, I guess that leaves me with a few other questions (looking at you again, @DiggyV , mate!):

1) what's the sides difference (from a percentage POV) between 125mg and 250mg? I'm not finding 125 too bad at all, but would it literally be double the sides for double the dose?

2) Based on my experiences so far, does 250mg sound managable, or am I going to look like the BigRedSwitch fountain? 

3) if I go to 250, should I double dose in the morning, or take one in the morning and one in the evening?

4) I have to go to LA (for the E3 games show) in June (8th, I think). When should I be stopping my dose so I can be completely off everything (including T3) before I go? Don't want to be trying to take those through customs, and don't want to be cooking in LA!

Think that's about it!


----------



## FuriousRunt

Hi BigRedSwitch, are you finding t3 catabolic at all?

I'm researching dnp and clen to see if it's a route I want to take.

Being at the end of a natural bulk i'm worried about losing any hard earned muscle.

Thanks.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

FuriousRunt said:


> Hi BigRedSwitch, are you finding t3 catabolic at all?
> 
> I'm researching dnp and clen to see if it's a route I want to take.
> 
> Being at the end of a natural bulk i'm worried about losing any hard earned muscle.
> 
> Thanks.


Hey, mate - no, I don't think so. Best gauge for me is watching my biceps, and they're maintaining roughly the same size. The only issue is that I feel like I'm not maintaining the pump - it lasts maybe 1 hour post workout, then I'm back to nothing. I suspect that's more the DNP than the T3, though.

The way I'm looking at it is that my workouts are 'maintenance' - I'm eating a lot of protein, not much fat, and generally low carbs (although this weekend would suggest otherwise, always below 100 carbs per day), I'm also pushing as hard as possible with my workouts, trying to milk the benefits from the 'downside' of DNP (lethargy) of you know what I mean?

But yeah, I think T3 is all good, tbh...


----------



## FuriousRunt

OK man. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

BigRedSwitch said:


> I'm eating a lot of protein, not much fat, and generally low carbs (although this weekend would suggest otherwise, always below 100 carbs per day)


Sorry if you've covered this already but what are your stats / cals etc

Cheers


----------



## Inapsine

Good luck mate interested to see how the dnp affects your sugars. personally im staying the fcuk away from dnp. just running low dose eca with high protein and fats and carbs only at breakfast and post workout. Loosing 0.5kg-1kg a weeke.


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 8*
> 
> The usual setup followed this morning. I've been noticing some changes, too.
> 
> First off, I don't know if it's the water retention, but as the days are going by, I can see the veins in my forearms. Little change, as yet, to my waist (measured) which is where the remaining 5% I have to lose actually lives.
> 
> The fat around my waist is weird, really. It now feels like a bum-bag or something, it's that loose. Every other area of my body feels taut and well developed, and it's an odd (and uncomfortable) contrast.
> 
> So, I guess that leaves me with a few other questions (looking at you again, @DiggyV , mate!):
> 
> 1) what's the sides difference (from a percentage POV) between 125mg and 250mg? I'm not finding 125 too bad at all, but would it literally be double the sides for double the dose?
> 
> 2) Based on my experiences so far, does 250mg sound managable, or am I going to look like the BigRedSwitch fountain?
> 
> 3) if I go to 250, should I double dose in the morning, or take one in the morning and one in the evening?
> 
> 4) I have to go to LA (for the E3 games show) in June (8th, I think). When should I be stopping my dose so I can be completely off everything (including T3) before I go? Don't want to be trying to take those through customs, and don't want to be cooking in LA!
> 
> Think that's about it!


1/. more sweats - significantly IME. As it is a poison (as in its effects increase proportionate to its dose) then yes, it is pretty much linear as well.

2/. Big Red Fountain - literally just standing in a pretty empty tube train and I looked like I had been hosed down. Needed air con and fans in the office or same result. At night would sweat through a pillow. Was tough for me. End point was great but to my mind if I run it again then it would be 125, not 250. slower losses, but more manageable for lifestyle.

3/. Double dose in the morning has a lower over all peak saturation than 125 AM and 125 PM - there is about a 50g diference. Can explain it in great detail if anyone wants to know why. 

3/. June 1st / 2nd. DNP will be close to zero by the time you leave.

hope that helps. :thumb:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Dr Gearhead said:


> Sorry if you've covered this already but what are your stats / cals etc
> 
> Cheers


Hey, Doc,

I'm 6'5", 15% body fat, type 1 diabetic for 36 years, 39 years old. Standard diet is along the lines of:

Wholemeal toast and yoghurt for breakfast,

Canned fish @10.30

Lots of meat at lunch,

Canned fish @4.30,

Meat with veg at dinner (post workout, circa 9pm)

The life I lead means I can't really be measuring everything out, but I'm on a mostly protein diet during the week, with a majority of my carbs at the weekend (when I'm home with my family).

I tend to eat what I feel like, but not when carbs are included. I go out of my way to avoid them.

Granted. It the best diet in the world, but so far it's helped me lose nearly 4 stone and look pretty lean, aside from my waist, which is what the DNP is for.

It's basically a derivative of something like the Dukan diet (by accident), but trying to maintain a reasonable balance of everything other than carbs.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

@DiggyV - nice one, mate. Great info as ever. Will stick to 125...


----------



## Dr Gearhead

Doesn't look like a lot of food to me mate. I've been shooting for 2300 but I've been proper hungry so hitting 2800 - 2900 pretty routinely.


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 8*
> 
> The usual setup followed this morning. I've been noticing some changes, too.
> 
> First off, I don't know if it's the water retention, but as the days are going by, I can see the veins in my forearms. Little change, as yet, to my waist (measured) which is where the remaining 5% I have to lose actually lives.
> 
> The fat around my waist is weird, really. It now feels like a bum-bag or something, it's that loose. Every other area of my body feels taut and well developed, and it's an odd (and uncomfortable) contrast.


I have this as well, almost all the fat has gone from my tum, but because of my former hugeness, I think the little non-taut areas are excess skin. :-( Little can be done at my great age (47) short of the knife I think. I tried GH but it had little effect apart from giving me crippling CTS. My natural GH is very high and my skin is more elastic that it should be at my age, so I think it has shrunk as much as it can, and I may have to live with it. We'll see once the last few pounds have gone.

I get the forearm vein thing too, and now on the biceps - this is a good sign as fat is being removed. Water is a sod with DNP, particularly if you are prone, so you may not see the full extent of the losses until a week after - keep on the VitC for this week - I actually take 3g daily anyway.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Dr Gearhead said:


> Doesn't look like a lot of food to me mate. I've been shooting for 2300 but I've been proper hungry so hitting 2800 - 2900 pretty routinely.


I eat A LOT of meat, mate... ;-)

In all seriousness, though, I started trying to slim down about 18 months ago, and nothing was working. I weighed nearly 20 stone, and was shifting around 1 lb a week on a standard building diet.

I figured I needed an alternative, so as I knew a lot about the metabolic processes of being diabetic, it soon became obvious to me that insulin (and in effect, Carbs) were the problem.

I didn't like the sound of Atkins (principally because people who do it really seem to hammer the fats), so I went for an adapted version which focused on protein. This had always been promoted as the way to go to me when I was a competitive swimmer (back in the day), so I figured I'd go for that.

Weight dropped off me, even though my hunger was covered. Much more online with what I expected based on the effort I was putting in. Took me 8 months to get from 19.5 stone to 16 stone, with the only issue being the weight loss was irregular, hence the situ as I describe above...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

So, another odd side (not seen it mentioned anywhere else, either...) My urine smells odd - kinda medicinal or kinda like bleach or something. Anyone else noticed this @DiggyV, @G-man99 ?


----------



## carrock

what I find odd is why there is a need to take insulin at all- if the carbs are being burnt off as heat, then they shouldn't be raising blood sugar, and thus there should be no need for insulin.

What I am assuming is that at my low dose ( 125mg ) only some of the carbs are being burnt off as heat.

I assume at proportionally higher dosages of DNP, the need for insulin reduces pro rata


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> what I find odd is why there is a need to take insulin at all- if the carbs are being burnt off as heat, then they shouldn't be raising blood sugar, and thus there should be no need for insulin.
> 
> What I am assuming is that at my low dose ( 125mg ) only some of the carbs are being burnt off as heat.
> 
> I assume at proportionally higher dosages of DNP, the need for insulin reduces pro rata


I'd say that was a fair assumption.


----------



## G-man99

BigRedSwitch said:


> So, another odd side (not seen it mentioned anywhere else, either...) My urine smells odd - kinda medicinal or kinda like bleach or something. Anyone else noticed this @DiggyV, @G-man99 ?


Yeah there is a slight odour to it and a visual bright glow to it as well


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 9*

Back at work now, away from my (apparently) ravenous family. The diet is back on properly.

Was up at 6.40am this morning doing circuit training (luckily the guy I share with when I'm working away during the week is a personal trainer of sorts, so I have relatively easy access to good exercise advice!), and I sweated like hell.

Immediately after that (and I realise it was a dumb move and I should have done it before), I took my T3, Vit-C, Vit E and ALA. Then I went for a shower, had some wholemeal toast with clover, drove to work and took the DNP with my Dioralyte.

I've also had 4 fish-sticks.

Bit of a bumpy weekend for the diet (being as I was home and it was bank holiday), so hopefully I can pick up more losses this week.

Will be going to the gym this evening, hopefully to see my less than reliable personal trainer, and probably doing cardio and core.

Still a bit freaked by my medicinal smelling pee, but I'm assuming that's relatively normal?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

G-man99 said:


> Yeah there is a slight odour to it and a visual bright glow to it as well


What freaked me out was the fact it smelled like Bleach or something! :wacko:


----------



## G-man99

BigRedSwitch said:


> What freaked me out was the fact it smelled like Bleach or something! :wacko:


Have you noticed illuminous ejacualtion yet??? :lol:


----------



## carrock

I went a bit wayward with the diet yesterday- had too many carbs- didn't feel hot but my blood sugar rocketed up to 24.6, so had to inject a large dose of insulin. I assume if I had more DNP in my system I would have been borderline spontaneous combustion.

On a positive note, even on 125mg/day I have lost 5 kilo in a week, which I wasn't expecting. Not sure how much is fat and how much fluid though.....


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> I went a bit wayward with the diet yesterday- had too many carbs- didn't feel hot but my blood sugar rocketed up to 24.6, so had to inject a large dose of insulin. I assume if I had more DNP in my system I would have been borderline spontaneous combustion.
> 
> On a positive note, even on 125mg/day I have lost 5 kilo in a week, which I wasn't expecting. Not sure how much is fat and how much fluid though.....


Wow! 5kg! That's epic!

What are your stats? Have you got a lot to lose?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

G-man99 said:


> Have you noticed illuminous ejacualtion yet??? :lol:


TBH, as I live away from home 5 nights a week, and I'm feeling so wiped out by about 11pm, my one chance a week to get jiggy with the Mrs, I fell asleep instead.


----------



## carrock

1 am now 15 stone 10 down from about 16 stone 7 a week ago

Here is a recent pic taken a couple of months ago



5 ft 11 and according to bodycomp scales I have a lean body mass of 12 stone so I am guessing I would be 13 stone(ish ) at 8% bodyfat.

Want to get under 14 stone as this is what I looked like then



Have another holiday booked mid June so another month on DNP plus 7 days to get it out of the system should see me there.

Doing an hours cycling 5 times a week plus bodypump 3 times a week to minimise muscle loss but definitely noticing a performance drop-off in the gym and on the bike even at 125mg


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> So, another odd side (not seen it mentioned anywhere else, either...) My urine smells odd - kinda medicinal or kinda like bleach or something. Anyone else noticed this @DiggyV, @G-man99 ?


Yup - sopme people notice this, kinda like the same people that notice their pee smells of coffee if they drink a lot or honey or asparagus. Not everyone's nose is 'tuned' into this, so not everyone gets it. I also get a musty taste in my mouth, kinda like an old room, if that makes sense.



carrock said:


> what I find odd is why there is a need to take insulin at all- if the carbs are being burnt off as heat, then they shouldn't be raising blood sugar, and thus there should be no need for insulin.
> 
> What I am assuming is that at my low dose ( 125mg ) only some of the carbs are being burnt off as heat.
> 
> I assume at proportionally higher dosages of DNP, the need for insulin reduces pro rata


DNP's effect rises as the dose rises. at 125 only so much of the mitochondrial action is altered, and so only a certain amount is burned as heat. THe more you take the greater the action, and also the greater the risk unfortunately.


----------



## Just_Bob

Big red out of interest does your PT know your taking the dnp?


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Yup - sopme people notice this, kinda like the same people that notice their pee smells of coffee if they drink a lot or honey or asparagus. Not everyone's nose is 'tuned' into this, so not everyone gets it. I also get a musty taste in my mouth, kinda like an old room, if that makes sense.
> 
> DNP's effect rises as the dose rises. at 125 only so much of the mitochondrial action is altered, and so only a certain amount is burned as heat. THe more you take the greater the action, and also the greater the risk unfortunately.


I have been on 125 for a week so will jack it up to 250mg from tomorrow. I am thinking I will take the first dose at 8am and the second dose at 12 noon

Anyone any experience of the best timings for a split dosage? don't want to take a late dose and affect the sleep patterns


----------



## Just_Bob

carrock said:


> I have been on 125 for a week so will jack it up to 250mg from tomorrow. I am thinking I will take the first dose at 8am and the second dose at 12 noon
> 
> Anyone any experience of the best timings for a split dosage? don't want to take a late dose and affect the sleep patterns


According to diggyv's maths. Its better to take 250 in one dose. As splitting it will increase the peak dosage in ypur system. Ive been taking 250mg around 8pm and falling asleep by 10pm. The dnp has made me so shattered by the end of the day, in sweating a but at night but none more than i would on a hot evening.


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> I have been on 125 for a week so will jack it up to 250mg from tomorrow. I am thinking I will take the first dose at 8am and the second dose at 12 noon
> 
> Anyone any experience of the best timings for a split dosage? don't want to take a late dose and affect the sleep patterns


Dont split them.....

Strangely your peak levels will be lower if you take it as 250 in one go. I posted some images somewhere of peak dosages - here you go:

250mg - peak 450mg



125 twice a day - peak 500mg



125 / 250 on alternate days - peak 300-350 alternating



I know this goes against what you would think, but the half life of DNP is very long (about 36 hours) and so the second 125 really forces the peak level up. If you want more info, I can send you my DNP Excel spreadsheet - email me at diggyv66 AT gmail DOT com.

:thumb:


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Dont split them.....
> 
> Strangely your peak levels will be lower if you take it as 250 in one go. I posted some images somewhere of peak dosages - here you go:
> 
> 250mg - peak 450mg
> 
> View attachment 120303
> 
> 
> 125 twice a day - peak 500mg
> 
> View attachment 120305
> 
> 
> 125 / 250 on alternate days - peak 300-350 alternating
> 
> View attachment 120304
> 
> 
> I know this goes against what you would think, but the half life of DNP is very long (about 36 hours) and so the second 125 really forces the peak level up. If you want more info, I can send you my DNP Excel spreadsheet - email me at diggyv66 AT gmail DOT com.
> 
> :thumb:


will do- thanks a lot.

Think what I will do is take a 250mg first thing, and really cut back on the carbs- this should hopefully minimise the side effects of the increased dosage.


----------



## carrock

Just_Bob said:


> According to diggyv's maths. Its better to take 250 in one dose. As splitting it will increase the peak dosage in ypur system. Ive been taking 250mg around 8pm and falling asleep by 10pm. The dnp has made me so shattered by the end of the day, in sweating a but at night but none more than i would on a hot evening.


Excellent will try that. will I need to jack up the T3 from 50 to 100mg, when oing to 250mg of DNP, and is that best split or taken all together?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> will do- thanks a lot.
> 
> Think what I will do is take a 250mg first thing, and really cut back on the carbs- this should hopefully minimise the side effects of the increased dosage.


My advice would be to stay where you are for the moment, mate. You've not been on the stuff very long - make sure you're all good before pumping it higher...


----------



## Foxy13

@carrock, can I ask why you are upping your dose? Is 5kg a week not enough especially at that low of a dose? I'd be more than happy with that in a week tbh


----------



## carrock

Foxy13 said:


> @carrock, can I ask why you are upping your dose? Is 5kg a week not enough especially at that low of a dose? I'd be more than happy with that in a week tbh


OK will stick it for another week at 125mg. Just reading about all the people taking 400-600, and I assumed that was a typical dose.

In hindsight might struggle to get my hour of cardio in per day at 250mg


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> OK will stick it for another week at 125mg. Just reading about all the people taking 400-600, and I assumed that was a typical dose.
> 
> In hindsight might struggle to get my hour of cardio in per day at 250mg


Trust me the majority of the 400-600 crew wont be running correctly dosed DNP. I tried 500 (correctly dosed) and I am tolerant of most things, but it was way too much for me. Even At my weight at the time of 100Kg. People running 400-600 or more will either have low dosed DNP or basically aren't running it at all. There are one or two exceptions (@ausbuilt being one), but a lot will be internet warriors.

:thumb:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 9 - Update*

Lunch was: 2 chicken breasts, 10x mini satay sticks, muller lite greek style yoghurt, muller lite standard yoghurt, 4 sea-food sticks. Total Carbs = 30.

No insulin taken - BGM before the meal was 2.8... :wacko:


----------



## Foxy13

carrock said:


> OK will stick it for another week at 125mg. Just reading about all the people taking 400-600, and I assumed that was a typical dose.
> 
> In hindsight might struggle to get my hour of cardio in per day at 250mg


Not trying to be negative or anything, but 5kg at the lowest dose is impressive. I'd continue to run at that  How much do you weigh at the minute?


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Trust me the majority of the 400-600 crew wont be running correctly dosed DNP. I tried 500 (correctly dosed) and I am tolerant of most things, but it was way too much for me. Even At my weight at the time of 100Kg. People running 400-600 or more will either have low dosed DNP or basically aren't running it at all. There are one or two exceptions (@ausbuilt being one), but a lot will be internet warriors.
> 
> :thumb:


OK

will try another week at 125 and then possibly go to 125/250 on alternate days.

Don't really feel any hotter than when I was taking ephedrine, to be fair, certainly not uncomfortable.

Am on day 8 now so wouldn't think I would feel any more side effects than I have done already


----------



## carrock

Foxy13 said:


> Not trying to be negative or anything, but 5kg at the lowest dose is impressive. I'd continue to run at that  How much do you weigh at the minute?


102kg down from 107


----------



## Foxy13

Nice one man, keep it up!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> 102kg down from 107


How tall are you? Do you know your current bf%?


----------



## carrock

BigRedSwitch said:


> How tall are you? Do you know your current bf%?


5 11. I have posted a couple of pics which are awaiting mod approval.

According to a bodycomp analysis I had done my lean mass is 12 stone so probably about 25% bf

I'd like to get below 14 stone by end July and at 13 I would be ripped I think


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> 5 11. I have posted a couple of pics which are awaiting mod approval.
> 
> According to a bodycomp analysis I had done my lean mass is 12 stone so probably about 25% bf
> 
> I'd like to get below 14 stone by end July and at 13 I would be ripped I think


Right - that explains it a bit, then. I'm 15% bf, and I've lost a majority of my weight now (to a point that weight it coming off my fingers - my wedding ring keeps falling off! Not what the Mrs wants to hear..!), so this last bit is a struggle.

Good to see it's stripping, though - you should be able to see a dramatic difference after losing 5kg! 

In other news, I'm *considering* doing 250mg tomorrow and potentially altenating (125mg one day, and 250mg the next). The only reason I'm considering it now is that the weather over the next few days is supposed to be really ****ty!


----------



## stryker007

I've played with 250mg and 500mg per day... 500mg per day would be way too much for me to bear so I've been alternating between 500mg one day then 250mg the next, I'm over half way through a 2 week cycle doing this... TBF I think that method is too much too, the heat has been hell and I feel like death... hard to explain but I felt this way once before years ago when I suffered a collapsed lung, the weakness I feel now is kind of like that.

One thing for sure though, I really can't stress enough that you should of been on a particular dose for about a week before deciding to up it... it seems to take up to around 5 days for me to feel the effects of a particular dose.


----------



## carrock

BigRedSwitch said:


> Right - that explains it a bit, then. I'm 15% bf, and I've lost a majority of my weight now (to a point that weight it coming off my fingers - my wedding ring keeps falling off! Not what the Mrs wants to hear..!), so this last bit is a struggle.
> 
> Good to see it's stripping, though - you should be able to see a dramatic difference after losing 5kg!


Yes- my 34 inch waist jeans no longer have a noticeable " cake shelf " oozing over the top


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> Yes- my 34 inch waist jeans no longer have a noticeable " cake shelf " oozing over the top


Man, if I could get rid of that cake-shelf, I'd be completely made up!  It's like I'm wearing a spare tyre around the waist of my Batman physique.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

If I were to go onto 250mg one day and 125mg the next, would I feel spikes in the sides, or would the net effect actually be the sensation of 200mg?

I realise the half life situ, but I can feel the DNP once I've taken it in the morning, which makes me concerned that on the days I was taking 250mg, I'd end up looking like the afforementioned BigRedFountain...


----------



## carrock

BigRedSwitch said:


> Man, if I could get rid of that cake-shelf, I'd be completely made up!  It's like I'm wearing a spare tyre around the waist of my Batman physique.


How much of that though is because you inject insulin into your midsection I wonder?

I now inject into the back of my upper arm ( tricep area but obviously not into the muscle ) as I would rather have larger arms than a larger waist.

I used to inject into the top of my thighs but they became enlarged after a while also.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> How much of that though is because you inject insulin into your midsection I wonder?
> 
> I now inject into the back of my upper arm ( tricep area but obviously not into the muscle ) as I would rather have larger arms than a larger waist.
> 
> I used to inject into the top of my thighs but they became enlarged after a while also.


I realised that in my late 20's - I just thought I was putting on weight, then realised that it was also due to insulin injection swelling. I stopped then. Ironically, my brother (5.5 years my younger) has a similar physique to me, but doesn't have the cake-shelf, so I do think the insulin had something to do with it. I always bang on about it on forums like this, as people seem to think weight loss and micronutrients etc are a very black and white science, but that's not the case with Type 1 Diabetes - our metabolisms work in a noticeably different manner.

I don't really inject at all anymore, though - I have one 'shot' every 3 days into my upper thigh/side of my ass, which is where the canula for my insulin pump attaches...

Seriously hoping I can strip it all off - I don't really even mind having the 'scar tissue' left from the injections, as long as the skin is tight and the rest of the fat is gone...


----------



## stryker007

Like you killswitch I feel the dnp a lil after taking it but its the level of the drug thats absorbed in my system that affects me overall... like I posted earlier for me alternating between 250/500 is ok... where as 500 each day was not... if I'm ever to do this again I think I'll leave it at 250 per day too.

Quick edit as forgot to mention.... overall there were no big swings that I noticed between the 250 or 500 days... only the effects of the overall amount my body has in it which if as I suspect your armed with a certain spreadsheet your more than aware of.


----------



## stryker007

thats interesting... as I've dropped weight I've noticed how I become pretty insulin sensitive (no idea if what I'm talking about is fact as never read too far into it), however I do follow the usual tricks to try and keep my insulin down... I've said to others I have to live a little like a diabetic so I'm careful not to eat too much of anything thats going to spike my insulin levels, plus drink grapefruit juice before a meal etc...

Also is it not a fact that insulin in your blood causes your body to lock glucose away as fat? Do you take regular does (you mentioned a pump) or do you take that one big shot every three days? if you do it sounds like a spike to me.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

stryker007 said:


> Also is it not a fact that insulin in your blood causes your body to lock glucose away as fat? Do you take regular does (you mentioned a pump) or do you take that one big shot every three days? if you do it sounds like a spike to me.


No, mate - it's a continuous dose. Check it out: 

Basically, it delivers the insulin in as 'human' a way as possible, and connects to my glucose monitor to calculate correct doses based on my BGM. It's epic, and it makes me bionic. 

So yes, I'm about as close to 'standard human' as Type 1 Diabetics get - should have little to no insulin spikes at all... 

EDIT: And yes, insulin does lock the carbs away as fat - that's why I think Diabetics retain MUCH more weight than normal people, and have a much more difficult time losing weight...


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> No, mate - it's a continuous dose. Check it out:
> View attachment 120326
> 
> 
> Basically, it delivers the insulin in as 'human' a way as possible, and connects to my glucose monitor to calculate correct doses based on my BGM. It's epic, and it makes me bionic.
> 
> So yes, I'm about as close to 'standard human' as Type 1 Diabetics get - should have little to no insulin spikes at all...
> 
> EDIT: And yes, insulin does lock the carbs away as fat - that's why I think Diabetics retain MUCH more weight than normal people, and have a much more difficult time losing weight...


Technology these days!


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> If I were to go onto 250mg one day and 125mg the next, would I feel spikes in the sides, or would the net effect actually be the sensation of 200mg?
> 
> I realise the half life situ, but I can feel the DNP once I've taken it in the morning, which makes me concerned that on the days I was taking 250mg, I'd end up looking like the afforementioned BigRedFountain...


Spikes - see below - from my sheet - you should be able to replicate this as you have it :lol:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Yeah, sorry, @DiggyV - was at home today, so couldn't look at the excel as I don't have it on my MacBook. 

That is startling, though - I think I'm going to stick with 125 after all. Max dose on 125-250 > 350!? Scary! Don't fancy that much. Getting a bit close to the danger area for my liking...

*Day 9 update*

Had 2x steak in peppercorn sauce (not much) with cauliflower for dinner 1. Went to the gym.

25 mins cardio, arms, chest and shoulders. Felt pumped, but the pump does off VERY quickly. Also, pretty much all the definition has gone from my muscles, which is annoying - I look like a slightly bigger than average normal dude. Not happy about that...!

Went home and had Dinner 2. Crayfish tails (200g), piri-piri chicken with broccoli, some hazelnuts and a muller lite yoghurt.

Have drunk another litre or so of water, and seem to be ****ing like a race-horse every 2 minutes.

Also, feeling kinda palpitations in my chest now. I've had these before, and been given a clean bill of health by the doctors (echo Cairo-gram), but not this frequent. Kinda freaking me out a bit tbh.

Getting to the time of night when I'm the hottest now. Windows open, chilling out, ready for sleep shortly...


----------



## DiggyV

Have a look at OpenOffice from Sun Microsystems, full office compatibility and free. Very good I have it on my netbook. Runs on Windows, OSX and Linux.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 9 - Day 10 Update*

ROUGH night last night. Enough to put me off going up to 250mg, anyway. Got back from the gym, cooked up my dinner (as specified above), and then just couldn't get cool. Was absolutely boiling (but not sweating, despite the fact I'd drunk something like 7 litres of water over the course of the day) all night - to a point I had to open the bedroom window and sleep underneath that, without any covers.

Pretty much feel like sh!te warmed up today.

*Day 10*

Today, I'm changing my diet up a bit.

09.00am - Breakfast will be 2 slices of Hovis Granary toast, with a little Lurpak Lighter. (262 calories, 35 carbs)

10.30am - Mackerel in Spicy Tomato Sauce (237 calories, 5.4 carbs)

12.00pm - Piri Piri Mackerel (549 calories, 2 carbs), Muller Lite Greek Style Lemon Yoghurt (53 calories, 0 carbs)

04.00pm - Mackerel in Spicy Tomato Sauce (237 calories, 5.4 carbs)

06.00pm - Chicken in Pesto Sauce (582 calories, 0 carbs), Broccoli (30 calories, 0 carbs), New York Cheesecake flavour Muller Lite (59 calories, 15 carbs)

Over the course of the day - Hazlenuts (21) (176 calories, 5 carbs)

Daily total: 2180 carbs, 68 carbs.

My dietitian suggests that by BMR is 2600, so this gives me a calorie deficit of 420, and is way less than 100 carbs.

With regard to the DNP, I'm feeling pretty bloated at the moment. Also very hot (as suggested earlier). I look quite flushed - looking down at my hands whilst I'm typing this and they're quite red.

Hope today is better than last night was. Either way, it's put paid to my idea of upping the dosage...


----------



## DiggyV

Even though you are at peak saturation now, it does get tougher the longer you are on it. Just kind of wears you down if that makes sense. I found 14 days about right, but would be interested in trying 125 over three weeks to see if it was easier, should probably get similar losses.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> Even though you are at peak saturation now, it does get tougher the longer you are on it. Just kind of wears you down if that makes sense. I found 14 days about right, but would be interested in trying 125 over three weeks to see if it was easier, should probably get similar losses.


This was the first real significant change, mate - kinda took me by surprise. Bit odd, really - was expecting it to be a reasonably easy ride once I'd gotten past the 7 day stage... :-S


----------



## MC-Racer

When you get to 7 days or over I feel like the walking dead I currently do 7 days on break 5-7 days depending on how I feel and usually when seeing the difference on the scales and mirror it gets me charged up and eager for another 7 day cycle. I won't loose as much as some do on 3 week cycles but I make progress all the same which I am happy with and also helps keep what I'm doing a bit more secret from everyone at work noticing there is something wrong with me because I am sweating like a race horse.


----------



## Just_Bob

MC-Racer said:


> When you get to 7 days or over I feel like the walking dead I currently do 7 days on break 5-7 days depending on how I feel and usually when seeing the difference on the scales and mirror it gets me charged up and eager for another 7 day cycle. I won't loose as much as some do on 3 week cycles but I make progress all the same which I am happy with and also helps keep what I'm doing a bit more secret from everyone at work noticing there is something wrong with me because I am sweating like a race horse.


How much have you been losing on your 7 day cycles?


----------



## Just_Bob

MC-Racer said:


> When you get to 7 days or over I feel like the walking dead I currently do 7 days on break 5-7 days depending on how I feel and usually when seeing the difference on the scales and mirror it gets me charged up and eager for another 7 day cycle. I won't loose as much as some do on 3 week cycles but I make progress all the same which I am happy with and also helps keep what I'm doing a bit more secret from everyone at work noticing there is something wrong with me because I am sweating like a race horse.


How much have you been losing on your 7 day cycles?


----------



## MC-Racer

first cycle which was with POWDER DNP I lost 7lbs, then 2nd cycle I dropped 3-4 lbs but had 5 days rest then have gone back on. I didn't stay off long enough to see the full loss as on the 1st cycle I saw no weight drop until I came off and funnily enough most of it was on day 7 post cycle.

I was on 600mg on the powder but on crystal I cant handle more than 250mg, I may post up some results when I finish my pot as I should have at least another 3x 7 day cycles after this current cycle is finished and I'm in no rush to be silly with it.

My work shirts I bought last month are already looking like clown clothes and my mother-in-law thinks I'm ill or something LOL.

Also running Yohimbine on the current cycle which helps with the lethargy.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Aside from the fact that I'm Type 1 Diabetic, and felt like I was playing Russian Roulette with even thinking about doing DNP, I also didn't really want the sides to be noticeable to anyone who didn't know what I was doing. That includes my wife (trust me, it just isn't worth the aggro)...! 

Whilst some people may not be too worried about the sweating, I'm not a naturally sweaty person, so if I was suddenly soaking, people would be asking questions. Not a good scene.

125mg is working OK for me at the moment. I'm interested to see what happens over the next few days with the heat, as that could be the only thing that stops my flow. I was planning on keeping it up for 3 weeks to a month, but if I'm starting to get alarmed by body temperature, I'll back it off sooner.

Bit odd, really - even @DiggyV 's awesome Excel spreadsheet doesn't give suggestion of this. I mean, after 10 days, I'm well into the max saturation I'm going to get, but the sides are not consistent at all.

I suggested earlier that I wouldn't be upping my dose. This was based on the sudden heat I'm feeling, but looking at the bigger picture, I also don't think it'd be a good idea simply due to the irregularity of the sides...

*Day 10 update*

Had lunch as planned above, heat is pretty constant. Nothing to worry about, I don't think, but warmer than I'd like to be. Feels like being outside on a hot day and not really being able to escape the heat. Sitting at my desk with the fan blowing directly into my face, so I'm comfortable, until I have to start walking around the (quite warm) office.

I guess it is still fairly warm outside, so maybe that's additive to this.

As much as I'm taking DNP to lose weight, there's also a degree of scientific curiosity about it. So far, my findings would suggest that it isn't dangerous in small doses, but considering its apparent instability when it comes to the sides, it really requires a hell of a lot of respect to use it responsibly...


----------



## stryker007

I can agree with the responsibility part.... like the worlds biggest pratt I had a few pints yesterday evening... woke up at 5am with the worst dehydration headache ever.... just about managed to get to the kitchen for more water... and then was very sick....


----------



## BigRedSwitch

stryker007 said:


> I can agree with the responsibility part.... like the worlds biggest pratt I had a few pints yesterday evening... woke up at 5am with the worst dehydration headache ever.... just about managed to get to the kitchen for more water... and then was very sick....


Whoa! You seriously need to take it easy with the booze, mate. That could have ended very badly... :sad:


----------



## carrock

I went to a concert last week, had half a bottle of wine with supper pre concert and 3 pints of lager there.

Felt fine.

Not sure why people avoid alcohol with dnp- seems fine in moderation, but I only drink about 4 beers a week on average.

I am also type 1 diabetic.

Suspect I wouldn't get away with boozing very night and taking a high dose of dnp though


----------



## stryker007

Cheers yep.... I was lured into it because about 5 days ago sure I had three pints then and was fine... but last night, not so fine... I think that nicely proves the point you were making about the effects being accumulative over time, like with you my symptoms are ramping up even though my dose isn't.... I think thats an important point for anyone reading this thread thinking about giving it a try.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

stryker007 said:


> Cheers yep.... I was lured into it because about 5 days ago sure I had three pints then and was fine... but last night, not so fine... I think that nicely proves the point you were making about the effects being accumulative over time, like with you my symptoms are ramping up even though my dose isn't.... I think thats an important point for anyone reading this thread thinking about giving it a try.


How far in are you, mate? Obviously I'm on Day 10, as per the log, but I'm really cooking at the moment! It feels like I'm not losing any heat at all, and I was expecting to over the course of the day...

Got the fan on my desk on level 2 of 3 right now, and I'm still cooking! :-S


----------



## stryker007

I'm on day 11, started a week last sunday. I've been running 250/500 alternating each day but I've not taken any today owing to my stupidity and for the remainder of the 4 days I'm sticking to 250mg owing to this "building effect" it has. In the first 3 days I just noticed subtle things like I was comfortable in the useless cold office we work in while work mates were freezing... but about 5 days in I was noticeably hot and this last few days I've been sitting next to a fan the whole day.... I was actually over the moon when the weather forecast showed it cooling this week  I've had some serious night sweats this last few days, plus I'm retaining water.... since day number 5 I've not been exercising either because I'm just too hot and too fatigued even though I'm taking T3.... I do honestly feel poisoned/sick etc


----------



## stryker007

oh also, I've had some muscle stiffness tho I think thats down to a potassium deficiency, probably caused by the DNP


----------



## hackskii

BigRedSwitch said:


> What freaked me out was the fact it smelled like Bleach or something! :wacko:


If it smelled like ammonia then you probably might be a bit acidic, mostly protein will do this.

Get yourself some litmus paper to test your pee for pH, you can also test your saliva, if the litmus paper confirms this, then you have something else to look at.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> If it smelled like ammonia then you probably might be a bit acidic, mostly protein will do this.
> 
> Get yourself some litmus paper to test your pee for pH, you can also test your saliva, if the litmus paper confirms this, then you have something else to look at.


Nah, I think it's just the DNP - the smell also made me think, 'was there asparagus in my dinner last night?'


----------



## hackskii

BigRedSwitch said:


> Nah, I think it's just the DNP - the smell also made me think, 'was there asparagus in my dinner last night?'


By all means it was the asparagus, that always happens to me, and when at work, I stand at the urinal till it flushes as it does not smell normal.

Or, how about that nasty nasty smell that comes from the DNP poops?

Wow, that one can gag a maggot, and it does have that laxative affect.

Carbs will make you a bit hotter on DNP, also on keto diets, it is mandatory to supplement the energy requirements with fats, too much protein can convert to glucose and thus toss you out of ketosis.

But, being diabetic, I would test your urine for pH, something you probably should do anyway.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 11*

Searching for an answer to why I suddenly went Nuclear the night before last, I thought through my food intake. Does spicy food have any effect on DNP? I had some chicken breast dry fried in Piri-Piri sauce, and it was as hot as hell, and I just never really cooled down after that...?

The only other thing I could think is that maybe the dosages in the DNP tabs aren't 100% accurate...? Who knows.

Anyway - onto today. After sleeping under a fan in front of an open window and driving around with the air-con on full blast, I finally managed to chill my sh!t out, and ended up actually feeling quite cold last night.

Today everything taken as usual. Looked at myself in the mirror, and I could see the changes. Tensing my abs, I can see the change in shape of the musculature so the fat is being stripped, which is spurring me on.

It was about an hour ago (maybe) that I took the DNP, and I can already feel the heat building, so have my desk fan on as usual. Tension in my temples too (which seems to be the "immediate" side of taking the stuff).

Feeling pretty good so far, though.

Diet today:

09.00am - Breakfast will be 2 slices of Hovis Granary toast, with a little Lurpak Lighter. (262 calories, 35 carbs)

10.30am - Mackerel in Spicy Tomato Sauce (237 calories, 5.4 carbs)

12.00pm - Pulled pork from last night (God knows calories - would expect about 400, likely to be sub 10 carbs), Yoghurt (59 cals, 15 carbs)

04.00pm - Protein bar (209 calories, 16 carbs)

06.00pm - Chicken in Pesto Sauce (582 calories, 0 carbs), Broccoli (30 calories, 0 carbs), New York Cheesecake flavour Muller Lite (59 calories, 15 carbs)

Over the course of the day - Hazlenuts (circa 200 calories, 10 carbs)

Daily total: 1979 carbs, 106.4 carbs.

Still on a Calorie deficit, weight coming off.


----------



## ak750

Hey Guys, i´m 5 days on 250mg Crystal dnp and for 2 days i´m taking 50mcg t3...At the moment i´m on a keto diet for about 2 weeks...feel very hot and sweating all day :S i´m doing cardio everyday for 30 minutes and 3 times weight training a week...Calories are always somewhere between 2200-2500... i´m 6.5 foot and weight is 224 lbs.

So the first 2 days i could really see how the fat stripped of me, but after that i think i was retaining a lot of water and from one day to another my physique looked very soft :S

So my question is could it be that the more fat i loose the more water i retain and because of that the i´m not loosing any weight on the scale ?

Have to say i´m on 250mg test a week and i usually bloat up very fast if i don´t control the carbohydrates..


----------



## Just_Bob

ak750 said:


> Hey Guys, i´m 5 days on 250mg Crystal dnp and for 2 days i´m taking 50mcg t3...At the moment i´m on a keto diet for about 2 weeks...feel very hot and sweating all day :S i´m doing cardio everyday for 30 minutes and 3 times weight training a week...Calories are always somewhere between 2200-2500... i´m 6.5 foot and weight is 224 lbs.
> 
> So the first 2 days i could really see how the fat stripped of me, but after that i think i was retaining a lot of water and from one day to another my physique looked very soft :S
> 
> So my question is could it be that the more fat i loose the more water i retain and because of that the i´m not loosing any weight on the scale ?
> 
> Have to say i´m on 250mg test a week and i usually bloat up very fast if i don´t control the carbohydrates..


Hey buddy. I wouldnt even bother weighing yourself. Your gona be holding loads of water. Im 9 days in and i weighed myself (i told myself i wouldnt) and i weighed about the same as day 1!! You will continue losing weight for the week after tou stop the cycle after the water drops off. You WILL be losing fat right now even if you cant notice it, your muscles will also be as flat as a pancake now. Its all a mind **** but just keep doing what your doing.

How long you planning to run the cycle?


----------



## ak750

Thanks for the fast reply ! yeah it´s a totally Mind **** but glad i´m not the only one because i got problems with my motivation because of my constant weight :S but now i feel better, thanks 

Well, i was planing to run it for 2 weeks and then just see how i´m looking wihtout the water retention and my muscles full with carbs but maybe i´m adding a 3rd week but only with 125mg a day.. not really sure yet...am planning to get really shredded for the first time of my life...i´m not fat but i want to see a nice sixpack, thats my goal at the moment and i will only focus on that right now


----------



## BigRedSwitch

ak750 said:


> Thanks for the fast reply ! yeah it´s a totally Mind **** but glad i´m not the only one because i got problems with my motivation because of my constant weight :S but now i feel better, thanks
> 
> Well, i was planing to run it for 2 weeks and then just see how i´m looking wihtout the water retention and my muscles full with carbs but maybe i´m adding a 3rd week but only with 125mg a day.. not really sure yet...am planning to get really shredded for the first time of my life...i´m not fat but i want to see a nice sixpack, thats my goal at the moment and i will only focus on that right now


Hey, ak750 - you sound like you're in a similar position to me; same height, similar weight (I'm about 216 at the moment - target 200).

The DNP is working - I'm only on 125mg, but have been for 11 days now. Everything said about the sides is true - your physique will look softer, you'll retain tonnes of water, and look like you're not losing much. It's best to look at it from a visual perspective, though. I'm pretty lean (15% bf before I started), but still had the 'muffin top' - that's what I'm fighting. I can see the 'wave of fat' receding down my torso every day, looking like it's draining into my cake shelf! 

Things seem to be levelling out a bit now. If it continues like this, I'll be taking DNP till the end of the month. I'll then give it a week to 10 days on a calorie deficit and post pix of my results. I'm actually expecting quite epic changes...


----------



## ak750

Yeah  I personally have no target weight, just want to look better...just came home from the gym...trained a little back and arms..noticed that my arm looks way better when pumped up although i´m 2 weeks on keto and have zero carbs in me  a little boost in Motivation...my belly looks really fat sometimes and i´m like "**** you DNP, do your ****ing work" but then sometimes i notice that it´s getting flatter and flatter, think on some days i´m retaining more water than usual...like Just_bob said it´s Mind **** got to stick to your diet and work towards your goal


----------



## MC-Racer

on my first cycle, I was f'ing and blinding because no weight was shifting, now all I do is take pictures every 5 days and I can see a difference in my physique every time. That's what keeps my motivation up is by seeing the change to my body. Its hard to ignore the scales but they are irrelevant until you come off for a week.


----------



## Dr Gearhead

I had to knock 500mg on the head after about 5 days, felt like I was gonna asphixiate one night whilst laid in bed, the sweats and heat were mega too, much more pronounced than 375mg. Dropped to 250 a day and it's a breeze in comparison.

Had a "funny" experience yesterday. I've had a desserts and chocolate (not everyday) all the way through and never noticed an effect but the gf took me to see iron man 3 yesterday and bought a pot of pick and mix which I had around half of. Fookin hell it was like somone had thrown a bucket of water on me after about 20 minutes, continued all the way through the film and I was proper soaked walking out the cinema. Got plenty of funny looks, looked liked I'd just got out of the shower fully clothed.

Am coming off on sunday so avoiding the simple carbs at all costs btw now and then


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Dr Gearhead said:


> I had to knock 500mg on the head after about 5 days, felt like I was gonna asphixiate one night whilst laid in bed, the sweats and heat were mega too, much more pronounced than 375mg. Dropped to 250 a day and it's a breeze in comparison.
> 
> Had a "funny" experience yesterday. I've had a desserts and chocolate (not everyday) all the way through and never noticed an effect but the gf took me to see iron man 3 yesterday and bought a pot of pick and mix which I had around half of. Fookin hell it was like somone had thrown a bucket of water on me after about 20 minutes, continued all the way through the film and I was proper soaked walking out the cinema. Got plenty of funny looks, looked liked I'd just got out of the shower fully clothed.
> 
> Am coming off on sunday so avoiding the simple carbs at all costs btw now and then


Yeah, this is kinda why I'm avoiding 250mg. Seems to take a much more dominant role in your day, and can really get weird if you do something that's "off piste". Shame - I can see the weight coming off now, so I reckon it would be like Liposuction (as @DiggyV described it!) if I could bump the dose and not ruin my life!


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> Yeah, this is kinda why I'm avoiding 250mg. Seems to take a much more dominant role in your day, and can really get weird if you do something that's "off piste". Shame - I can see the weight coming off now, so I reckon it would be like Liposuction (as @DiggyV described it!) if I could bump the dose and not ruin my life!


Maybe you should give 250 a go pr alternate it. Ive been switching between 125 and 250 taken at 6pm. I cant say the 250 days are any different from the 125 days. I dont have any spike as such. I seem to be sleeping like a baby, pillows a bit wet in the morning but the only real sweats ive been having are in the gym, and i sweat like a cvnt in the gym anyway. I guess everyone reacts different though.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> Maybe you should give 250 a go pr alternate it. Ive been switching between 125 and 250 taken at 6pm. I cant say the 250 days are any different from the 125 days. I dont have any spike as such. I seem to be sleeping like a baby, pillows a bit wet in the morning but the only real sweats ive been having are in the gym, and i sweat like a cvnt in the gym anyway. I guess everyone reacts different though.


What's the origin of your DNP, mate - D-Hacks?


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> What's the origin of your DNP, mate - D-Hacks?


Yer. D hacks crystal. Maybe try it on a day where you dont have anything important to do? If you find the sides are too much then just stick with the 125. I had no intention of going above 125 but curiosity got the better of me


----------



## Dr Gearhead

BigRedSwitch said:


> Yeah, this is kinda why I'm avoiding 250mg. Seems to take a much more dominant role in your day, and can really get weird if you do something that's "off piste". Shame - I can see the weight coming off now, so I reckon it would be like Liposuction (as @DiggyV described it!) if I could bump the dose and not ruin my life!


without wanting to be an enabler or try and convince you to do something you're not comfortable with theres only one way your gonna find out how you react to 250mg


----------



## stryker007

500mg was too much for me, just felt fcukd and now can't manage any type of exercise so I'm on 250mg till sunday then I'm done thank God.... I want my life back


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 12*

Did circuit training today before a long weekend (dental surgery on a broken tooth on Monday - yay!  ), and was struggling to get my breath. Had my T3 before I started this morning. Felt a bit 'drippy' in general.

Had my toast about 1/2 hour after the T3, then have taken everything else (inc. DNP) at work this morning.

Hating the way I look at the moment. Flat muscles, "wooly" looking physique, still have my wobbly bits.

Saturday (as ever) is my weigh in. I'm obviously going to do it (tradition, right?) but I'm looking to mostly ignore it based on the rest of the stuff I've read about other people's experiences.

I would really like to see weight loss (I'm on a low-carb, calorie deficit diet *as well*), but I'll try to ignore it if I haven't lost any.

I'm officially ending this run on Friday 31st May. That being the case, I still have exactly 3 weeks to go...


----------



## KickeyMouse

i actually weighted myself one morning when i was looking flat and not very bloated

2kg loss per week if my mathematic skills work  still the only time i stepped on the scale, cant really go by mirror with the retention that much.... did see better VISUAL changes with 125mg for 1 week as now 250mg (14th day in) today because of the water retention...

weird how sometimes i see those two pubic area veins under abs which i acquired with 125 mg run back then and now it's random sight if i see them

keep it up and stay safe fellow


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 12*

Back home after the long drive from Cheshire to Surrey.

Yes, folks, it's WEIGH IN DAY!!!

Last week, 15 stone 9.5 lbs. This week, 15 stone 6 lbs! 

3.5lbs lost, despite my somewhat 'off piste' weekend last week.

I can see the difference - the sad thing is that, even though I've lost 6.5lbs now (well, more - carrying a lot of water), my stubborn flabby bits are still hanging around. I'm sure they're getting smaller, but it looks like chipping splinters off a redwood. Looks like I'm going to have to get down to about 14 stone to get rid. If I continued on this pace, I'd have to be on DNP for another 5 weeks at least, so I guess that's me destined to at least another cycle after this one finishes.

Have 3 days off this weekend (have an evil dentist appointment to look forward to on Monday), so just gotta try to stay on target with the calorie deficit, and hopefully speed up my gains.

Muscles are as flat as a pancake. Feel floppy (I 'feel' ok, but look like some dude who's never seen a gym!), but just keep telling myself ill look like I'm carved from wood when I get back to being myself... :thumb:


----------



## carrock

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 12*
> 
> Back home after the long drive from Cheshire to Surrey.
> 
> Yes, folks, it's WEIGH IN DAY!!!
> 
> Last week, 15 stone 9.5 lbs. This week, 15 stone 6 lbs!
> 
> 3.5lbs lost, despite my somewhat 'off piste' weekend last week.
> 
> I can see the difference - the sad thing is that, even though I've lost 6.5lbs now (well, more - carrying a lot of water), my stubborn flabby bits are still hanging around. I'm sure they're getting smaller, but it looks like chipping splinters off a redwood. Looks like I'm going to have to get down to about 14 stone to get rid. If I continued on this pace, I'd have to be on DNP for another 5 weeks at least, so I guess that's me destined to at least another cycle after this one finishes.
> 
> Have 3 days off this weekend (have an evil dentist appointment to look forward to on Monday), so just gotta try to stay on target with the calorie deficit, and hopefully speed up my gains.
> 
> Muscles are as flat as a pancake. Feel floppy (I 'feel' ok, but look like some dude who's never seen a gym!), but just keep telling myself ill look like I'm carved from wood when I get back to being myself... :thumb:


I am finishing on Monday, will have done a 14 day cycle at 125mg. Will have a week off then run another 14 day cycle. I tend to feel a bit lethargic in the mornings over last day or 2. Will keep taking the t3 right through the next cycle. It will take me til the end of the summer to get where I want to be so no quick fix, certainly not at 125mg.


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 12*
> 
> Back home after the long drive from Cheshire to Surrey.
> 
> Yes, folks, it's WEIGH IN DAY!!!
> 
> Last week, 15 stone 9.5 lbs. This week, 15 stone 6 lbs!
> 
> 3.5lbs lost, despite my somewhat 'off piste' weekend last week.
> 
> I can see the difference - the sad thing is that, even though I've lost 6.5lbs now (well, more - carrying a lot of water), my stubborn flabby bits are still hanging around. I'm sure they're getting smaller, but it looks like chipping splinters off a redwood. Looks like I'm going to have to get down to about 14 stone to get rid. If I continued on this pace, I'd have to be on DNP for another 5 weeks at least, so I guess that's me destined to at least another cycle after this one finishes.
> 
> Have 3 days off this weekend (have an evil dentist appointment to look forward to on Monday), so just gotta try to stay on target with the calorie deficit, and hopefully speed up my gains.
> 
> Muscles are as flat as a pancake. Feel floppy (I 'feel' ok, but look like some dude who's never seen a gym!), but just keep telling myself ill look like I'm carved from wood when I get back to being myself... :thumb:


Its annoying that fat seens to come off of your belly last. Im the same, my chest also. I think the rest of our bodys will be shredded as ****, striations the lot before and kind of abs are visable!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> Its annoying that fat seens to come off of your belly last. Im the same, my chest also. I think the rest of our bodys will be shredded as ****, striations the lot before and kind of abs are visable!


True dat.

Thing is, I kinda consider it a penance. I genuinely think that if I can get back to having a flat stomach, as long as I keep working out, it doesn't matter if I put on a bit of weight, my 'form' will be changed for good. The 'muffin top' look isn't something that appears straight away - it's something that appears with substantial weight gain and no activity. That's *NEVER* happening again...


----------



## hackskii

For many men fat comes off last around the stomach due to the body not wanting to let go of its reserves.

Pretty common.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> For many men fat comes off last around the stomach due to the body not wanting to let go of its reserves.
> 
> Pretty common.


Have to say, this is pretty stubborn fat, and its pretty frustrating too! I've hit it with EVERYTHING, and it hasn't moved much. I think I'm going to have to do at least 2 relatively long DNP cycles to make a significan dent in it. It's crazy, though - the weight is falling off elsewhere - I bought some jeans which were a 34 inch waist about 3 weeks ago, and they fitted perfectly. 2 weeks on DNP and they're now hanging off my ass like they're too big. I can see my top abs (which is awesome), but the band of fat remains (although it is getting slightly smaller).

I just wish it'd **** off!! :cursing:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 13*

Diet fine, in the most part - sizeable chilli last night, low carbs (no rice), but probably a few more calls than I needed.

Felt hot this morning, and a bit weak, then realised was quite badly hypo (3.6 - standard 'human' range = 5 to 7).

Going to my mother in laws for Sunday lunch today, which will be good, as I can just have meat and non-carb veg.

Other than the heat and the low BGM, no real issues.

Probably the biggest news is that I've a) just bought some medium size t-shirts (this time last year I was in XL), and I reckon once my muscles come back, post DNP, I'll be popping in these, and B) I didn't realise I previously had such a fat ass. I'm gonna need to concentrate on my ass muscles a lot after this, as my jeans are falling off, so I'm starting to look like one of those teenage dicks with my boxers showing...


----------



## bigbob33

This is definitely interesting reading


----------



## stryker007

I'm the same.... my body generally looks painfully thin but that fekin band round my belly at bellybutton height is still there!?!!?? gah! thats why I started my cycle. Took my last tab this morning and eagerly wait for the water to go.... fingers crossed for results.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

stryker007 said:


> I'm the same.... my body generally looks painfully thin but that fekin band round my belly at bellybutton height is still there!?!!?? gah! thats why I started my cycle. Took my last tab this morning and eagerly wait for the water to go.... fingers crossed for results.


I'd be really interested to hear how much difference it's made once the water has subsided. I'm not stopping tomorrow (I feel OK), so I'm in for another 3 weeks, I reckon (end on the last day of May).

I have to go to E3 in LA to do a speech about my latest game on 8th June, so hopefully the amount of time between May 31st and June 8th will be enough for it to get out of my system so I can look OK on stage. 

Dependent on how I feel on Day 28, I might do the last 5 days on 250mg. Will see how it goes, though.

Also - another side today. Really minging smelling sweat! I'm properly funny about being clean (I think I'm a bit CDO about it - that's like OCD, but IN THE RIGHT ****ING ORDER! :lol: ), so I shower every day, but I was 'aware' of the smell of my armpits today, which isn't something I cherish - particularly in company! :crying:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 14*

Bit hot overnight. Sleep isn't as good as it was at all - always more difficult when I'm at home, as the Mrs doesn't know about this, because she'd freak. Actually looking forward to getting back to the place I work so I can sleep by myself with the window open! 

Other than that, no biggies so far today. I do have to go for a local anaesthetic at the dentist (so hope that won't have any kind of odd reaction?) but the only other thing is that I'm totally unaware of how warm or otherwise it is outside - its like I'm my own little generator. I'm getting some funny looks walking around in a t-short today, for example...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 15*

Back at work today, so can control the diet a bit better. 

I'm really not enjoying being away from air-con - I end up smelling like I haven't had a shower in about 3 days. It's pretty grim. As I mentioned earlier in this log, I'm a fastidiously clean person, and don't like to have a smell at all (I use unscented deodorant), so the idea of smelling like a sumo-wrestler's jockstrap isn't an attractive one.

May perhaps wasn't the greatest of times to do DNP "undercover". I'm having 3 days a week at home for 4 out of 5 of the weeks in May, and it's quite difficult just walking... past... the fridge...! :tongue: but I guess that kind of behaviour is what got me here in the first place. 

I measured my waist today - it's dropped by 2 whole inches, which is pleasing. I still have my spare tyre, though. 

I'm going to check out the weather forecast for next week over the next few days. If it's the case that it looks cool, I think I'm going to start staggering the dose with a 250mg round. Point being that, unless I eat a tonne of carbs, I can generally keep relatively cool.


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 15*
> 
> Back at work today, so can control the diet a bit better.
> 
> I'm really not enjoying being away from air-con - I end up smelling like I haven't had a shower in about 3 days. It's pretty grim. As I mentioned earlier in this log, I'm a fastidiously clean person, and don't like to have a smell at all (I use unscented deodorant), so the idea of smelling like a sumo-wrestler's jockstrap isn't an attractive one.
> 
> May perhaps wasn't the greatest of times to do DNP "undercover". I'm having 3 days a week at home for 4 out of 5 of the weeks in May, and it's quite difficult just walking... past... the fridge...! :tongue: but I guess that kind of behaviour is what got me here in the first place.
> 
> I measured my waist today - it's dropped by 2 whole inches, which is pleasing. *I still have my spare tyre, though. *
> 
> I'm going to check out the weather forecast for next week over the next few days. If it's the case that it looks cool, I think I'm going to start staggering the dose with a 250mg round. Point being that, unless I eat a tonne of carbs, I can generally keep relatively cool.


Not going to go in three weeks mate. Mine took 2 years - OK - the first 12 months weren't overly productive on the loss front, but even with DNP its going to take time. I still have 3 months to go I reckon - although it may stay '3 months to go' for a while! :lol:

Just keep plugging away, it will come, but please cycle the DNP, dont just keep going (although it is possible I believe), you will get a nice little anabolic rebound in the second week after stopping, then start again.


----------



## DiggyV

hackskii said:


> For many men fat comes off last around the stomach due to the body not wanting to let go of its reserves.
> 
> Pretty common.


Tell me about it Scott! :lol:

Hope things are well with you my friend.


----------



## Sambuca

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 12*
> 
> Back home after the long drive from Cheshire to Surrey.
> 
> Yes, folks, it's WEIGH IN DAY!!!
> 
> Last week, 15 stone 9.5 lbs. This week, 15 stone 6 lbs!
> 
> 3.5lbs lost, despite my somewhat 'off piste' weekend last week.
> 
> I can see the difference - the sad thing is that, even though I've lost 6.5lbs now (well, more - carrying a lot of water), my stubborn flabby bits are still hanging around. I'm sure they're getting smaller, but it looks like chipping splinters off a redwood. Looks like I'm going to have to get down to about 14 stone to get rid. If I continued on this pace, I'd have to be on DNP for another 5 weeks at least, so I guess that's me destined to at least another cycle after this one finishes.
> 
> Have 3 days off this weekend (have an evil dentist appointment to look forward to on Monday), so just gotta try to stay on target with the calorie deficit, and hopefully speed up my gains.
> 
> Muscles are as flat as a pancake. Feel floppy (I 'feel' ok, but look like some dude who's never seen a gym!), but just keep telling myself ill look like I'm carved from wood when I get back to being myself... :thumb:


Just reading through this.

Dont wanna sound like an ass but you could lose 3.5lbs form strict diet and training in a week. especially at high bf. As onthebuild said earlier in thread when u complained at 1lb a week loss. hes right thats good unassisted. steady loss and consistency of training and diet is key.

just wondering why u have felt the need to use dnp. dont take this as a dig just see a lot of people reaching for it when they could do well without it. it is a nice boost dont get me wrong but something i only use as a final thing.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Sambuca said:


> Just reading through this.
> 
> Dont wanna sound like an ass but you could lose 3.5lbs form strict diet and training in a week. especially at high bf. As onthebuild said earlier in thread when u complained at 1lb a week loss. hes right thats good unassisted. steady loss and consistency of training and diet is key.
> 
> just wondering why u have felt the need to use dnp. dont take this as a dig just see a lot of people reaching for it when they could do well without it. it is a nice boost dont get me wrong but something i only use as a final thing.


That's a bit of a generalist view, though, isn't it? I've lost a tonne of weight, and at first, it was dropping off me - now not so much. In addition, weight-loss is never focused - unless you're following a training and diet regimen of a pro bodybuilder (which I can't due to my work and lifestyle), you're always going to have a degree of catabolism whenever you lose weight.

I'd stalled with my weight loss. It was bouncing around the 16 stone mark, and I just couldn't see the changes, which started to demotivate me.

The addition of DNP to the training has basically made me lose 3.5lbs per week of *fat*, not muscle (I'm training as hard as I ever was, but the additional fatigue of the DNP is making me push myself harder), so hopefully, it'll keep me progressing to where I want to be. I'm not particularly high bf anyway - 15%, which, whilst I appreciate that's high for this forum, is actually pretty good overall. 

I've not gone nuts with it - I mean, I'm on 125mg per day, which is nothing compared to what some people take (on this forum!), but it's certainly started me progressing again, which was the intention in the first place.


----------



## DiggyV

Sambuca said:


> Just reading through this.
> 
> Dont wanna sound like an ass *but you could lose 3.5lbs form strict diet and training in a week*. especially at high bf. As onthebuild said earlier in thread when u complained at 1lb a week loss. hes right thats good unassisted. steady loss and consistency of training and diet is key.
> 
> just wondering why u have felt the need to use dnp. dont take this as a dig just see a lot of people reaching for it when they could do well without it. it is a nice boost dont get me wrong but something i only use as a final thing.


Have to disagree with the statement in red. High body fat is irrelevant in the base physiological maths involved with this is: 3.5lbs is 13,125 calories deficit in a week - given a pound of fat is 3,750 - most people use 3500 as it divides easy by 7 for planning a weight loss strategy, but it is 3750. So thats 875 cals a day in deficit. There is a more than good chance that you will lose a high percentage of that lot in muscle if you did try and lose at that rate. If you were holding water I could see it, but 3.5lbs of fat, sorry without DNP or Clen I can't see this happening. At that deficit, lets say you manage to burn 800 through cardio, training, HIIT etc etc each day - 7 days a week - then that leaves you 1,000 cals through diet. This level of diet deficit from maintenance will put you into a fat sparing mode of weight loss. Your body needs fat more than it needs muscle. Fat is vital in the production in a lot of your body's hormones, is also critical for correct central nervous function. So you will burn muscle. DNP will give you this as pretty much all fat loss, due to the way it acts at a cell level. It is also very muscle sparing. 3.5lbs is probably a little low - even for 125mg - I saw about 5.5lb in my second week on 125mg and I am lower BF than BigRed, however the Type1 may complicate this a little. Who knows there are no studies out there.

I will add a caveat, that you may be able to lose 3.5lbs in your first week of trying to do it through diet and exercise, water will account for a lot, but this level is not sustainable and certainly not as fat loss.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> Not going to go in three weeks mate. Mine took 2 years - OK - the first 12 months weren't overly productive on the loss front, but even with DNP its going to take time. I still have 3 months to go I reckon - although it may stay '3 months to go' for a while! :lol:
> 
> Just keep plugging away, it will come, but please cycle the DNP, dont just keep going (although it is possible I believe), you will get a nice little anabolic rebound in the second week after stopping, then start again.


I can't really continue indefinitely anyway, mate - I can't take it 'across the border'! :tongue:

But we'll see. If the weather is cool next week, I might do my 125/250 run and then quit for a month or so...


----------



## Sambuca

DiggyV said:


> Have to disagree with the statement in red. High body fat is irrelevant in the base physiological maths involved with this is: 3.5lbs is 13,125 calories deficit in a week - given a pound of fat is 3,750 - most people use 3500 as it divides easy by 7 for planning a weight loss strategy, but it is 3750. So thats 875 cals a day in deficit. There is a more than good chance that you will lose a high percentage of that lot in muscle if you did try and lose at that rate. If you were holding water I could see it, but 3.5lbs of fat, sorry without DNP or Clen I can't see this happening. At that deficit, lets say you manage to burn 800 through cardio, training, HIIT etc etc each day - 7 days a week - then that leaves you 1,000 cals through diet. This level of diet deficit from maintenance will put you into a fat sparing mode of weight loss. Your body needs fat more than it needs muscle. Fat is vital in the production in a lot of your body's hormones, is also critical for correct central nervous function. So you will burn muscle. DNP will give you this as pretty much all fat loss, due to the way it acts at a cell level. It is also very muscle sparing. 3.5lbs is probably a little low - even for 125mg - I saw about 5.5lb in my second week on 125mg and I am lower BF than BigRed, however the Type1 may complicate this a little. Who knows there are no studies out there.
> 
> I will add a caveat, that you may be able to lose 3.5lbs in your first week of trying to do it through diet and exercise, water will account for a lot, but this level is not sustainable and certainly not as fat loss.


yes i did not put my thoughts across so eloquently as you!  I agree i got massive losses in first 2 weeks the 1lbs a week after that. Just dont want to see the guy lose a load of weight then pile it all back on. i know type1 will be a big influence in this. But so is effective nutrition and training. I cannot see his diet in this thread and hes doing minimal cardio.


----------



## MC-Racer

I understand what Sambuca is saying but 3.5lbs a week is just the beginning, my first cycle I lost nothing until I came off and 7lbs dropped off after a one week cycle. So I'd expect that average to go up a bit after the cycle is finished.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Sambuca said:


> yes i did not put my thoughts across so eloquently as you!  I agree i got massive losses in first 2 weeks the 1lbs a week after that. Just dont want to see the guy lose a load of weight then pile it all back on. i know type1 will be a big influence in this. But so is effective nutrition and training. I cannot see his diet in this thread and hes doing minimal cardio.


Minimal cardio? I do at least 30 minutes 5 days a week...?

Typical training week is:

Monday am: 30 mins Circuit training.

Monday pm: 15 mins cardio, 1 hour weights (Biceps, Arms, Chest) with core as I'm finishing

Tuesday pm: 30 mins cardio, 45 mins weights (shoulders, triceps and core).

Wednesday am: 30 mins Circuit training.

Wednesday pm: 15 mins cardio, 45 mins legs with core as I'm finishing.

Thursday pm: 30 mins cardio, 45 mins "last weights of the week" - cover a bit of everything.

Friday am: 30 mins Circuit training.

So basically, I'm doing around 3 hours of Cardio a week?

Also - I've been working on this for about a year now (DNP wasn't my first choice!), so I won't be piling the weight back on again - I've dropped around 4 stone since I started - all done using the techniques you're talking about...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Diet today:

Breakfast: 2 x Hovis Granary Bread with Lurpak Spreadable.

10.30am snack: Canned Mackerel in Tomato Sauce

Lunch: 100g Pastrami, 10x mini chicken satay sticks, Muller Lite Yoghurt.

Snack: 100g Hazlenuts

Dinner: 170g chicken breast, pesto, rocket and spinach salad.

Calories = just about 2000. BMR = 2500.


----------



## hackskii

DiggyV said:


> Tell me about it Scott! :lol:
> 
> Hope things are well with you my friend.


What makes things worse, is once the waist line gets thinner around the upper stomach, it makes the love handles look worse, even though you are losing more inches.

But that is just an illusion, once it starts to go you look much better.

I am well man, just became debt free 2 weeks ago.

Now I gotta figure out what direction I want to go now.

Sad not having any direction in life, I took 6 years to get here, now it is as if I am lost or something.

Was more fun with a goal, than making the goal.

Strange I know, but that is the sad truth.

Maybe I should go out and buy a nice car now?


----------



## DiggyV

hackskii said:


> What makes things worse, is once the waist line gets thinner around the upper stomach, it makes the love handles look worse, even though you are losing more inches.
> 
> But that is just an illusion, once it starts to go you look much better.
> 
> I am well man, just became debt free 2 weeks ago.
> 
> Now I gotta figure out what direction I want to go now.
> 
> Sad not having any direction in life, I took 6 years to get here, now it is as if I am lost or something.
> 
> Was more fun with a goal, than making the goal.
> 
> Strange I know, but that is the sad truth.
> 
> Maybe I should go out and buy a nice car now?


Good on you, I remember talking to you about this and you were still 1 1/2 years away from it - god time flies by - yeah treat yourself a little and buy a mid life crisis car like a mustang or camaro, or go easy rider style and get a chopper 

I will get to LA sometime this year, and hope the beer is still cold buddy. :lol:


----------



## hackskii

DiggyV said:


> Good on you, I remember talking to you about this and you were still 1 1/2 years away from it - god time flies by - yeah treat yourself a little and buy a mid life crisis car like a mustang or camaro, or go easy rider style and get a chopper
> 
> I will get to LA sometime this year, and hope the beer is still cold buddy. :lol:


Beer is always cold, and I got a glass with your name on it. :lol:

I just rented an Infinity 2 weeks ago, it has 330 horse power, 7 speed transmission, and all wheel drive or something like that, it was so fast, and fun to drive, it also goes 500 miles on a tank of gas if your foot aint in it...lol

Felt so awesome, and only had 3 thousand mines on a new vehicle.

Wife was afraid to put her foot in it.

Also took the 2 year old granddaughter on a open cockpit biplane ride for 30 minutes, had a blast.

But, as you probably know, if I buy a awesome car, the wife will take it over and I will be left with her car, which is a 4 wheel drive jeep, but that would still be better than my 1995 truck.

But, something about not having any car payments that I like...lol

Sorry for the hyjack guys.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> Beer is always cold, and I got a glass with your name on it. :lol:
> 
> I just rented an Infinity 2 weeks ago, it has 330 horse power, 7 speed transmission, and all wheel drive or something like that, it was so fast, and fun to drive, it also goes 500 miles on a tank of gas if your foot aint in it...lol
> 
> Felt so awesome, and only had 3 thousand mines on a new vehicle.
> 
> Wife was afraid to put her foot in it.
> 
> Also took the 2 year old granddaughter on a open cockpit biplane ride for 30 minutes, had a blast.
> 
> But, as you probably know, if I buy a awesome car, the wife will take it over and I will be left with her car, which is a 4 wheel drive jeep, but that would still be better than my 1995 truck.
> 
> But, something about not having any car payments that I like...lol
> 
> Sorry for the hyjack guys.


I make car games for a living (just about to release GRID 2 and currently working on 'Driveclub') so I'm a hardcore petrol head. I've been driving for 21 years, and owned 54 cars during that time, including 4 corvettes (last was a 2006 C6 with 150bhp nitrous shot), a couple of mustangs (last was 2005 GT), a Hummer H2, 7 new beetles, including a one off modded beetle RSI (3.2v6, 4wd) with a twin turbo conversion making 640 bhp. 

Car conversations all good with me... ;-)


----------



## hackskii

BigRedSwitch said:


> I make car games for a living (just about to release GRID 2 and currently working on 'Driveclub') so I'm a hardcore petrol head. I've been driving for 21 years, and owned 54 cars during that time, including 4 corvettes (last was a 2006 C6 with 150bhp nitrous shot), a couple of mustangs (last was 2005 GT), a Hummer H2, 7 new beetles, including a one off modded beetle RSI (3.2v6, 4wd) with a twin turbo conversion making 640 bhp.
> 
> Car conversations all good with me... ;-)


Wow, you sound well off with that much stuff.

I have been driving for 37 years and had 2 VW bugs, 1 toyota, 2 trucks, and a jeep, so 6 vehicles in 37 years.

Crashed 2 of them too:lol:

Had a bug that had duel carbs, with a o9 distributer, exhaust, light flywheel, and suspension, it was pretty fast but nothing like what you are doing.

Now how did you make a bettle 4wd?

Bet that was fun to drive?

What do you do with your cars?

How do your store them?

Looks like you like American cars?

Do you like the old muscle cars of the 60's?


----------



## FuriousRunt

Hi, would Electrolytes Plus from myprotein be a good source for electrolytes?

http://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/electrolytes-plus/10529467.html?utm_source=googleprod&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=gp_sports&affil=thggpsad&gclid=COOVgICPlrcCFZLKtAodHxoADg


----------



## Just_Bob

Change of subjects :whistling:

Im on day 14 now. Been running 250ed for the last week, still no major sweats, warmer than usual, a bit if swear at night, extra sweathing in the gym but sides have been really low. The last 2 days i upped to 375 'purely out of curiosity' just not taken 375 for the 3rd day...

Boy oh boy i am dripppping. Sitting here drenched, much different than 250mg! I was wondering why people moaned so much about the sides of dnp, but this must be what its like for a lot of people running 250. I shall not be taking 375 tomorrow!

My ipad now looks like ive spilt a drink on it.

You thinking of giving 259 a go red?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> Wow, you sound well off with that much stuff.
> 
> I have been driving for 37 years and had 2 VW bugs, 1 toyota, 2 trucks, and a jeep, so 6 vehicles in 37 years.
> 
> Crashed 2 of them too:lol:
> 
> Had a bug that had duel carbs, with a o9 distributer, exhaust, light flywheel, and suspension, it was pretty fast but nothing like what you are doing.
> 
> Now how did you make a bettle 4wd?
> 
> Bet that was fun to drive?
> 
> What do you do with your cars?
> 
> How do your store them?
> 
> Looks like you like American cars?
> 
> Do you like the old muscle cars of the 60's?


I'll PM you, mate.


----------



## FuriousRunt

Is the idea to have the T3 first thing on an empty stomach, then dnp a bit later with food?

Also, does anyone know if the the Electrolytes plus from myprotein would be ok?

Sorry for all the questions.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> Change of subjects :whistling:
> 
> Im on day 14 now. Been running 250ed for the last week, still no major sweats, warmer than usual, a bit if swear at night, extra sweathing in the gym but sides have been really low. The last 2 days i upped to 375 'purely out of curiosity' just not taken 375 for the 3rd day...
> 
> Boy oh boy i am dripppping. Sitting here drenched, much different than 250mg! I was wondering why people moaned so much about the sides of dnp, but this must be what its like for a lot of people running 250. I shall not be taking 375 tomorrow!
> 
> My ipad now looks like ive spilt a drink on it.
> 
> You thinking of giving 259 a go red?


I'm seriously thinking about it. I'm back at work for 5 days next week (May has been an odd month for holidays), so I might just have a run at 250 for the final week. I guess if its bad on the Monday, I can fein illness and take a day off to recover. 

The half life is exactly as @DiggyV describes it, though, so as I take mine in the AM, it'll probably be pretty rough, falling off later in the day. I've found I can turn the 'heat' down a bit by driving around with my windows down in stupidly cold weather...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

FuriousRunt said:


> Is the idea to have the T3 first thing on an empty stomach, then dnp a bit later with food?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if the the Electrolytes plus from myprotein would be ok?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions.


The answers to questions are better discovered through asking than assumed, mate! 

Yes, I take the T3 as soon as I wake up on an empty stomach, then have a shower etc, then have a couple of slices of toast about 1/2 hour later. When I get to work, I take my ALA, Vit-E, first Vit-C, dioralyte and DNP all at once.

@DiggyV is the best person to ask about specific requirements for electrolytes. As I understand it, the big ones are potassium and sodium chloride, so if it contains those, it's probably ok... 

So are you just thinking about doing it, or have you decided? I have to say, searching google makes this stuff sound like rat **** from hell, but as long as you understand the mechanism (specifically half life), the effect it has is utterly bonkers...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 16*

Decided that there was only one way to see how it was going to turn out, so I've upped the dose today (250mg). Took the dose about 10 minutes ago, and I've already got the fan on in preparation. 

As I did before, I'm going for absolutely minimal carbs today - have my Lucozade at the ready, have dropped my basal insulin to 65% of my standard, and just going to see how it rides out. If it's rough, I may well bail and go and sweat it out at home.

I don't know if I'm imagining it, but I can already feel my face and head getting hotter - that's the principle place where I feel my heat...

Lots of water on hand today, and only wearing a t-shirt, despite it ****ing down outside... :tongue:


----------



## FuriousRunt

Yeah all ordered.

The vitamins cost a fortune even though I bought them in bulk from ebay. Still need to get the ALA ( yet to find a reasonably priced place for it ) is ALA a necessity?

Good luck with the 250 btw!!


----------



## DiggyV

FuriousRunt said:


> Yeah all ordered.
> 
> The vitamins cost a fortune even though I bought them in bulk from ebay. Still need to get the ALA ( yet to find a reasonably priced place for it ) is ALA a necessity?
> 
> Good luck with the 250 btw!!


The ALA is the most expensive, Swansons is the best - sometimes turns up real bargin on Amazon. As with all supplements they are not essential, you will still lose the weight, but these anti oxidants keep the free radicals generated by the DNP in check. You could add in more C and E, perhaps 2g in the morning and 2g in the afternoon and 800iu E in the AM and 400iu PM. Your call on this one, I only ever run it with all of them, and its what I recommend.

:thumbup1:


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> The answers to questions are better discovered through asking than assumed, mate!
> 
> Yes, I take the T3 as soon as I wake up on an empty stomach, then have a shower etc, then have a couple of slices of toast about 1/2 hour later. When I get to work, I take my ALA, Vit-E, first Vit-C, dioralyte and DNP all at once.
> 
> @DiggyV is the best person to ask about specific requirements for electrolytes. As I understand it, the big ones are *potassium and sodium* chloride, so if it contains those, it's probably ok...
> 
> So are you just thinking about doing it, or have you decided? I have to say, searching google makes this stuff sound like rat **** from hell, but as long as you understand the mechanism (specifically half life), the effect it has is utterly bonkers...


as highlighted the two most important ones are Potassium and Sodium, however magnesium should also be included ideally. Dioralyte has the Potassium and Sodium, but tastes like crap. Dont go for the Orange Juice with Salt in it, as this only gives you Sodium and too much fructose.

My Protein have some electrolyte caps which are popular as broad spectrum - if you use these take them with 300-500ml of water and spread the dose through the day, however I use Science in Sport GO! Electrolytes (for DNP ans also for my 100Km Walk training).

DRINK WATER - LOTS OF FECKING WATER. Dont get dehydrated, judge it by your pee colour, if it is the colour of lucozade you need a lot more. Keep carbs between 50 and 100g a day - all complex - no sugars if you can avoid it, and make sure you have a few before training. Carry lucozade at all times. if your blood sugar gets low then you will go a little bit Hypoglycaemic - light headed and feel like crap (Big Red can describe this better than me I am sure), not like an Insulin Hypo, and not as dangerous - but teh lucozade will pull you up out of it quickly. You can wait - but I would rather just get it over with and have some heat from the sugars.


----------



## FuriousRunt

DiggyV said:


> The ALA is the most expensive, Swansons is the best - sometimes turns up real bargin on Amazon. As with all supplements they are not essential, you will still lose the weight, but these anti oxidants keep the free radicals generated by the DNP in check. You could add in more C and E, perhaps 2g in the morning and 2g in the afternoon and 800iu E in the AM and 400iu PM. Your call on this one, I only ever run it with all of them, and its what I recommend.
> 
> :thumbup1:


Thanks for the reply DiggyV. I think I'll got with the extra C and E then.

Sorry to hijack the thread a little BigRedSwitch, but does this sound ok for my electrolytes?

Nutritional Info:

Amount per 1 tablet serving:

Chloride: 320mg

Sodium: 210mg

Potassium: 60mg

Calcium: 30mg

Magnesium: 6mg

You get 180 per bottle.

Atleast the weather is alot cooler for you BigRedSwitch 

EDIT: Yes DiggyV, these are the myProtein ones I was looking at.


----------



## DiggyV

FuriousRunt said:


> Thanks for the reply DiggyV. I think I'll got with the extra C and E then.
> 
> Sorry to hijack the thread a little BigRedSwitch, but does this sound ok for my electrolytes?
> 
> Nutritional Info:
> 
> Amount per 1 tablet serving:
> 
> Chloride: 320mg
> 
> Sodium: 210mg
> 
> Potassium: 60mg
> 
> Calcium: 30mg
> 
> Magnesium: 6mg
> 
> You get 180 per bottle.
> 
> Atleast the weather is alot cooler for you BigRedSwitch
> 
> EDIT: Yes DiggyV, these are the myProtein ones I was looking at.


Thought I recognised them :lol:

These are fine. As they are caps you MUST take them with lots of water, otherwise you will get a high concentrate solution in your gut, which will pull water in from te surrounding tissue, as per previous post 300-500ml water when you take them. Also if you reckon you will need 3 caps, spread them out over the day, rather than in one dose. Basically electrolyte replacement is based on how much you sweat and is an imprecise science. Use the dose they recommend, but spread it out.


----------



## FuriousRunt

DiggyV said:


> Thought I recognised them :lol:
> 
> These are fine. As they are caps you MUST take them with lots of water, otherwise you will get a high concentrate solution in your gut, which will pull water in from te surrounding tissue, as per previous post 300-500ml water when you take them. Also if you reckon you will need 3 caps, spread them out over the day, rather than in one dose. Basically electrolyte replacement is based on how much you sweat and is an imprecise science. Use the dose they recommend, but spread it out.


Thanks man, really appreciate the help. I'll get a bottle ordered tonight.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

FuriousRunt said:


> Thanks for the reply DiggyV. I think I'll got with the extra C and E then.
> 
> Sorry to hijack the thread a little BigRedSwitch, but does this sound ok for my electrolytes?
> 
> Nutritional Info:
> 
> Amount per 1 tablet serving:
> 
> Chloride: 320mg
> 
> Sodium: 210mg
> 
> Potassium: 60mg
> 
> Calcium: 30mg
> 
> Magnesium: 6mg
> 
> You get 180 per bottle.
> 
> Atleast the weather is alot cooler for you BigRedSwitch
> 
> EDIT: Yes DiggyV, these are the myProtein ones I was looking at.


That sounds all good from my perspective, but @DiggyV is the law on this stuff.

From my experiences so far (which I've tried to keep well documented here), as long as you're very sensible with DNP, it's very manageable. @125mg, I think I could probably go for an extended period of time with no real issues.

First day for me at 250mg. I think I'll probably back down to 125mg tomorrow, then 250mg again on Friday. At the moment (approx 2 hours in), I feel fine, but that may be the fact that the DNP hasn't "hit" my stomach yet, as I'd had breakfast (toast!) before I took it (which you should *always* do, by the way!)

DiggyV - looks like I may be missing Magnesium (I use Dioralyte) any idea what dose I'd need for this?


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> That sounds all good from my perspective, but @DiggyV is the law on this stuff.
> 
> From my experiences so far (which I've tried to keep well documented here), as long as you're very sensible with DNP, it's very manageable. @125mg, I think I could probably go for an extended period of time with no real issues.
> 
> First day for me at 250mg. I think I'll probably back down to 125mg tomorrow, then 250mg again on Friday. At the moment (approx 2 hours in), I feel fine, but that may be the fact that the DNP hasn't "hit" my stomach yet, as I'd had breakfast (toast!) before I took it (which you should *always* do, by the way!)
> 
> DiggyV - looks like I may be missing Magnesium (I use Dioralyte) any idea what dose I'd need for this?


Dont panic too much about this, easiest way is to eat either a small handful of pumpkin seeds or sunflower seeds, or 3 or 4 brazil nuts - this will give you all you need mate.

Also as a side note, Brazil nuts are a superb dietary addition for men, just 3 or 4 a day can massively reduce your chance of prostate cancer, as can tomato ketchup strangely.


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Dont panic too much about this, easiest way is to eat either a small handful of pumpkin seeds or sunflower seeds, or 3 or 4 brazil nuts - this will give you all you need mate.
> 
> Also as a side note, Brazil nuts are a superb dietary addition for men, just 3 or 4 a day can massively reduce your chance of prostate cancer, as can tomato ketchup strangely.


Given that I ate a half pound box of chocolate brazils last weeken I must have the healthiest prostrate in the country


----------



## carrock

BigRedSwitch said:


> That sounds all good from my perspective, but @DiggyV is the law on this stuff.
> 
> From my experiences so far (which I've tried to keep well documented here), as long as you're very sensible with DNP, it's very manageable. @125mg, I think I could probably go for an extended period of time with no real issues.
> 
> First day for me at 250mg. I think I'll probably back down to 125mg tomorrow, then 250mg again on Friday. At the moment (approx 2 hours in), I feel fine, but that may be the fact that the DNP hasn't "hit" my stomach yet, as I'd had breakfast (toast!) before I took it (which you should *always* do, by the way!)
> 
> DiggyV - looks like I may be missing Magnesium (I use Dioralyte) any idea what dose I'd need for this?


I tried 250mg last week. I always find I get a rush of heat 2 hours after taking the DNP, typically about 1030 am, but it subsides thereafter, however it was noticeably worse on 250 so have gone back down for 125mg. I have done 14 days on, am now on a 7 day back and will start another 14 day run next week.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> I tried 250mg last week. I always find I get a rush of heat 2 hours after taking the DNP, typically about 1030 am, but it subsides thereafter, however it was noticeably worse on 250 so have gone back down for 125mg. I have done 14 days on, am now on a 7 day back and will start another 14 day run next week.


I'm about 2 and a bit hours in so far, feeling comfortably warm (the 'tension head' that I experienced in the early days of 125mg is back, though). Quite nice to be walking around in a t-shirt on a day like this and feeling warm. DNP - how to simulate living in a better climate. 

Check that out - a little noxious substance humour. This thread just keeps giving.


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> I tried 250mg last week. I always find I get a rush of heat 2 hours after taking the DNP, typically about 1030 am, but it subsides thereafter, however it was noticeably worse on 250 so have gone back down for 125mg. I have done 14 days on, am now on a 7 day back and will start another 14 day run next week.


Ideally you should take a 14 day break, for two reasons. It will take 5-6 days to get doen to close to zero left, and there is a little anabolic rebound from the DNP - normally happens in the second weeks after stopping. This will put a little more muscle mass on you. Always worth it IMO.


----------



## bigbob33

Currently 6 days in on 250, feel like crap all the time.. just a final push as I'm down from 18 stone to 15.5 since end of January


----------



## carrock

bigbob33 said:


> Currently 6 days in on 250, feel like crap all the time.. just a final push as I'm down from 18 stone to 15.5 since end of January


did you get this loss on 125mg?


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Ideally you should take a 14 day break, for two reasons. It will take 5-6 days to get doen to close to zero left, and there is a little anabolic rebound from the DNP - normally happens in the second weeks after stopping. This will put a little more muscle mass on you. Always worth it IMO.


great thanks for the heads up


----------



## Just_Bob

its strange i have no idea of the temperature outside. the windows in my house have been open all night, it LOOKS petty cold outside, im feel comfortably warm. however i made a green tea left it on the side for 15 minutes and when i went to drink it, it was freezing cold! like it had been chilling in the fridge, so it must be absolutely freezing in my house!

i wonder if DNP works out cheaper than my gas bill per quarter? lool


----------



## BigRedSwitch

bigbob33 said:


> Currently 6 days in on 250, feel like crap all the time.. just a final push as I'm down from 18 stone to 15.5 since end of January


I've found that with my staged approach, the 250mg so far is OK - I feel warmer, and a bit shorter of breath, but other than that, I'm OK. I don't think I'm going to go full on 250, though - I'll do alternate days so my peak will be about 400mg in the blood.

Your weight loss is similar to mine - I was 19 stone 6.5lbs, and I'm down to under 15.5 stone now. I'm getting pretty lean (a little 'skinny' for my liking), but the definition on my muscles is becoming epic, so once I get rid of the 'love tyre', I'll be eating like a mad-man to just build the muscle. 

Sometimes you've gotta reset and start from scratch.


----------



## bigbob33

carrock said:


> did you get this loss on 125mg?


No mate, just diet, training and hiit...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 16 update*

Approaching midday, and I have a background headache, which isn't pleasant. I feel a bit washed out, and obviously quite hot. Drinking lots of water (4 litres so far today).

Reminds me of when I first started on 125mg, actually. Took me about 5 days, but I eventually got to a point where the sides weren't really noticable (unless I did something stupid - like eat a lot of carbs!). I have back-ache, feel generally achy, and I'm about to pop some ibuprofen to see if I can kill the headache.

I'm fine, though - and as I said, back down to 125mg tomorrow, as I'm staggering the dose. 

Oh yeah - mouth feels like Ghandi's flip-flop too.


----------



## ak750

Guys, is it really possible that your muscles look that flat on a dnp cycle ?? I mean, i look like i have never trained !!...everythings flat..chest the most and shoulders...are your muscles also that freakin flat ? Just wondering

I'm taking dnp for about 10 days at 250mg ed


----------



## DiggyV

ak750 said:


> Guys, is it really possible that your muscles look that flat on a dnp cycle ?? I mean, i look like i have never trained !!...everythings flat..chest the most and shoulders...are your muscles also that freakin flat ? Just wondering
> 
> I'm taking dnp for about 10 days at 250mg ed


Yes - a lot of the fullness in your muscles comes from the glycogen stored in them, DNP completely depletes it and you will look like you have shrunk. Will all bounce back when you stop - well about 7 days after - as the residual DNP will be high enough until day 5/6 to still affect you. There is also a slight anabolic rebound in week 2 after stopping, so you may well end up looking slightly bigger than you were. 

Also remember that fat will be burned from throughout your muscles as well as the stuff on top. Think about a nicely marbled steak - all that marbling is fat - you will burn this in your own muscles, so once re-glycogen'd and after the rebound you may have some very small net loss on the tape measure - but visually you will look bigger as the muscles will better defined.

The pros out weigh the cons by about 100:1 in my estimation. I love the way I fill back out again - makes me look like I have done some super cycle. :lol:


----------



## carrock

Just_Bob said:


> its strange i have no idea of the temperature outside. the windows in my house have been open all night, it LOOKS petty cold outside, im feel comfortably warm. however i made a green tea left it on the side for 15 minutes and when i went to drink it, it was freezing cold! like it had been chilling in the fridge, so it must be absolutely freezing in my house!
> 
> i wonder if DNP works out cheaper than my gas bill per quarter? lool


Sure I read somewhere that hitler gave dnp to his troops on the Russian front to keep them warm.......


----------



## BigRedSwitch

ak750 said:


> Guys, is it really possible that your muscles look that flat on a dnp cycle ?? I mean, i look like i have never trained !!...everythings flat..chest the most and shoulders...are your muscles also that freakin flat ? Just wondering
> 
> I'm taking dnp for about 10 days at 250mg ed


I've certainly lost muscle definition. I generally look a bit more 'wooly' than I did pre-cycle, and even though I've still got size to my muscles, my pumps don't last very long at all. The only muscles which seem to have kept a majority of their size are my pecs - principally because I'm starting to get very lean in this area.

Based on @DiggyV 's info, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what I look like after a week off.  Question is, should I keep going for another week after this one - a 28 day cycle? Is it safe?


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> I've certainly lost muscle definition. I generally look a bit more 'wooly' than I did pre-cycle, and even though I've still got size to my muscles, my pumps don't last very long at all. The only muscles which seem to have kept a majority of their size are my pecs - principally because I'm starting to get very lean in this area.
> 
> Based on @DiggyV 's info, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what I look like after a week off.  Question is, should I keep going for another week after this one - a 28 day cycle? Is it safe?


*ahem* 2 weeks off, first week you will still be purging the DNP upto day 4/5/6, all the glycogen refill will happen at the end of week 1 and in week 2 after stopping. I have only run a 21 cycle in the past (@250mg) and stopped as the sides were too much for daily working life.

The temptation is to keep going, and I know a couple of people who have - I think most people tend to run 2 or 3 weeks at a go, and then re-evaluate.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> *ahem* 2 weeks off, first week you will still be purging the DNP upto day 4/5/6, all the glycogen refill will happen at the end of week 1 and in week 2 after stopping. I have only run a 21 cycle in the past (@250mg) and stopped as the sides were too much for daily working life.
> 
> The temptation is to keep going, and I know a couple of people who have - I think most people tend to run 2 or 3 weeks at a go, and then re-evaluate.


Sorry - my bad. Bad wording. I was planning on having a month off once I've done this cycle, but was keen to see the results after a week. 

I'll probably just keep going until the 28 days are up, tbh - so far the sides are manageable - unless we get warmer weather - and I'm mid way through week 3 now...


----------



## DiggyV

It is all personal with DNP - different people react differently, and ability to control carbs has a big impact on this. Obviously as a T1 it is second nature to you.

:thumb:


----------



## FuriousRunt

Well it arrived. Feels weird knowing how helping (and dangerous) these little gold capsules can be.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

So I've just had a really *REALLY* bad turn.

Started feeling nauseous, then started heating up, and the pressure in my head was building to a point where I couldn't actually hear anymore. I was genuinely scared. Only just coming down now, sweating like a pig and practically turned green.

I'm going home.  Not happy...


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> So I've just had a really *REALLY* bad turn.
> 
> Started feeling nauseous, then started heating up, and the pressure in my head was building to a point where I couldn't actually hear anymore. I was genuinely scared. Only just coming down now, sweating like a pig and practically turned green.
> 
> I'm going home.  Not happy...


Very odd Big Red - not had this before - very strange. how is your BG? and have you been taking your electrolytes - sodium and potassium are the key ones BTW?

People do complain of headaches - although I have never suffered even at 500mg.

Hope you are OK Big Fella.


----------



## FuriousRunt

BigRedSwitch said:


> So I've just had a really *REALLY* bad turn.
> 
> Started feeling nauseous, then started heating up, and the pressure in my head was building to a point where I couldn't actually hear anymore. I was genuinely scared. Only just coming down now, sweating like a pig and practically turned green.
> 
> I'm going home.  Not happy...


Woah man I hope things calm down quickly. Keep us posted. Stay safe mate


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> Very odd Big Red - not had this before - very strange. how is your BG? and have you been taking your electrolytes - sodium and potassium are the key ones BTW?
> 
> People do complain of headaches - although I have never suffered even at 500mg.
> 
> Hope you are OK Big Fella.


Thanks, mate.

I'm home now - feeling a bit blindsided, tbh. There was nothing to suggest this kind of thing was about to happen - just built over the course of about 10 minutes. Just hoping it was a one time thing, and I'm not going to have to cope with more of that over the next day or so... :-(

My BGM is actually quite high - 14 - which is odd considering the only carbs I've had was a yoghurt at lunchtime.

I'm on my bed, with the window open and the fan on. I'm ****ing freezing, but just trying to ensure I can control the situation...

@DiggyV - when is it ok for me to go back onto 125, given the HL? I really don't ever want that to happen again... :-(

Electrolytes should be fine - been drinking the dioralyte (although I haven't had 2 today - was going to have it at about 5pm, but needed to get out of there). I also bought some Brazil nuts to get my magnesium, and I've been following the routine to the letter... :-(


----------



## carrock

There may well be a reason why larger doses ( 250mg+) of dnp are not tolerated well in type 1 diabetics, and for that reason I would miss at least a day, preferably 2 and then resume on 125mg. I know I felt rubbish on 250mg and went straight back to 125


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> There may well be a reason why larger doses ( 250mg+) of dnp are not tolerated well in type 1 diabetics, and for that reason I would miss at least a day, preferably 2 and then resume on 125mg. I know I felt rubbish on 250mg and went straight back to 125


When I did my research, I didn't find much info (hence this log), but it was generally considered that DNP wouldn't be harmful to diabetics, and could, infact, be beneficial.

What frightened me was the sudden surge and build up - felt like I was having some kind of 'attack'. But that's it for me - only ever 125mg from now on.

If you read back though this log, there was another day when I was burning up - it's almost as though there's a build up of the stuff in your system which is suddenly released... I'm confident it wouldn't happen again, but I'm ****ed if I'm taking the risk...

DNP is still the best stuff ever, though. Day off tomorrow, and I'll have a look at @DiggyV 's spreadsheet to work out when it'll be safe once I feel ok...


----------



## DiggyV

day after tomorrow, give your body a chance to get the levels back down again.

Bad news mate.

Hope you perk up this evening.


----------



## hackskii

I would not think it would hit you within 24 hours, takes like 3 days to build up in your system, so doubling the dose to 250 could take days for you to feel.

Probably frightened you and it was that fear that drove stress to make you feel that way perhaps?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> day after tomorrow, give your body a chance to get the levels back down again.
> 
> Bad news mate.
> 
> Hope you perk up this evening.


Thanks, mate - and thanks for the info. Genuinely, I'm sure ill be fine (I figure the next 6 hours or so are the biggest problem).

I've just been to the bathroom, and my pee is BRIGHT yellow. Almost as though there was a delayed release of the DNP, then it all hit at once - I'm not kidding when I say I've drunk nearly 7 litres of water today, so there's no way I'm dehydrated...

Properly bizarre...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

hackskii said:


> I would not think it would hit you within 24 hours, takes like 3 days to build up in your system, so doubling the dose to 250 could take days for you to feel.
> 
> Probably frightened you and it was that fear that drove stress to make you feel that way perhaps?


No chance - I'm pretty cool in painful situations (don't forget, I've had something like 6000 injections in my day!  ) - this was something else. I seriously hope there's not worse to come, but I've found so far that the morning you take it is when you feel it the most...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

I'm wondering if I am dehydrated? Seems impossible considering I'm on my 8th litre of water today - just looked up the symptoms (usually a bad idea) and looks like I have a lot of them. :blink:


----------



## DiggyV

hackskii said:


> I would not think it would hit you within 24 hours, takes like 3 days to build up in your system, so doubling the dose to 250 could take days for you to feel.
> 
> Probably frightened you and it was that fear that drove stress to make you feel that way perhaps?


True Scott, but his peak from 125 after 2 weeks would have been 222mg, and instead he would have hit 569mg as he took that dose. the build up with 250 gets you to a peak of 302, which is 30% more than he is used to.

where do I get these figures I hear you ask? :lol:

from my magical DNP excel spreadsheet my friend. I seem to have mislaid your email addy when I upgraded my mac - if you PM it to me I'll send you a copy - I think you'll like it. :thumb:


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Thanks, mate - and thanks for the info. Genuinely, I'm sure ill be fine (I figure the next 6 hours or so are the biggest problem).
> 
> I've just been to the bathroom, and my pee is BRIGHT yellow. Almost as though there was a delayed release of the DNP, then it all hit at once - I'm not kidding when I say I've drunk nearly 7 litres of water today, so there's no way I'm dehydrated...
> 
> Properly bizarre...


remember its a dye - that wont be pee concentrations causing the colour that's just the DNP coming out. Its almost fluorescent I bet - I get this also.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> remember its a dye - that wont be pee concentrations causing the colour that's just the DNP coming out. Its almost fluorescent I bet - I get this also.


So pretty odd that it arrived suddenly, right? I mean, I took the stuff at 8.20am, and this happened after 4.30 this afternoon. Before that I was peeing like a racehorse from all the water I was drinking - clear as glass... :blink:


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> So pretty odd that it arrived suddenly, right? I mean, I took the stuff at 8.20am, and this happened after 4.30 this afternoon. Before that I was peeing like a racehorse from all the water I was drinking - clear as glass... :blink:


Again - DNP is a personal drug - there isn't a one size fits all - mine start being bright at about day 8 on 125, and about day 6 on 250. Perhaps the 250 was a trigger for your body to start releasing a bigger amount. Not 100% sure TBH mate. Bit odd. But then your reaction today was as well.

How about If I suggest you actually come off it now for 2 weeks. Get everything back to normal, ten go through the 125 ramp up again. I know how keen you are to lose the fat mate, but might be worth a break. get the glycogen store filled up a bit, fill the muscles up - get a good luck at progress, remember you will still lose weight over the next 5 or 6 days, get the rebound, and then look at a second 125mg run.

Just a thought.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> Again - DNP is a personal drug - there isn't a one size fits all - mine start being bright at about day 8 on 125, and about day 6 on 250. Perhaps the 250 was a trigger for your body to start releasing a bigger amount. Not 100% sure TBH mate. Bit odd. But then your reaction today was as well.
> 
> How about If I suggest you actually come off it now for 2 weeks. Get everything back to normal, ten go through the 125 ramp up again. I know how keen you are to lose the fat mate, but might be worth a break. get the glycogen store filled up a bit, fill the muscles up - get a good luck at progress, remember you will still lose weight over the next 5 or 6 days, get the rebound, and then look at a second 125mg run.
> 
> Just a thought.


I guess you're right. I have to admit to being a little shaken up by this, as things were going so well. I suppose there's a lesson in there for everyone, which is kinda what this log was about in the first place.

shame I couldn't keep going just one more week, though - that was the most I was going to do this time around anyway. Stubbornness to complete what I set out to achieve - perhaps not the best personality trait when it comes to this kind of thing...

Weirdly enough, at the moment, I feel fine...


----------



## carrock

hackskii said:


> I would not think it would hit you within 24 hours, takes like 3 days to build up in your system, so doubling the dose to 250 could take days for you to feel.
> 
> Probably frightened you and it was that fear that drove stress to make you feel that way perhaps?


I am not sure I agree with that

Whenever I take DNP I feel a big hit 2 hours later

when I went up to 250mg I felt a big heat wave 2 hours after, so went back down to 125mg the next day


----------



## FuriousRunt

Did you guys start T3 on day 1 with dnp? Would 50mg a day be ok with 125mg of dnp?


----------



## carrock

FuriousRunt said:


> Did you guys start T3 on day 1 with dnp? Would 50mg a day be ok with 125mg of dnp?


that was the combo I did but I started the T3 on day 3 of the dnp course.


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> that was the combo I did but I started the T3 on day 3 of the dnp course.


^^^^^ what he said


----------



## BigRedSwitch

FuriousRunt said:


> Did you guys start T3 on day 1 with dnp? Would 50mg a day be ok with 125mg of dnp?


Same here. Oh, and by the way - I'm still kicking...


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Again - DNP is a personal drug - there isn't a one size fits all - mine start being bright at about day 8 on 125, and about day 6 on 250. Perhaps the 250 was a trigger for your body to start releasing a bigger amount. Not 100% sure TBH mate. Bit odd. But then your reaction today was as well.
> 
> How about If I suggest you actually come off it now for 2 weeks. Get everything back to normal, ten go through the 125 ramp up again. I know how keen you are to lose the fat mate, but might be worth a break. get the glycogen store filled up a bit, fill the muscles up - get a good luck at progress, remember you will still lose weight over the next 5 or 6 days, get the rebound, and then look at a second 125mg run.
> 
> Just a thought.


I think this is all good advice- if in doubt- SCALE DOWN THE DOSE.

Not much point having the best 6 pack in the mortuary......... :-(


----------



## FuriousRunt

Thanks gents.

And glad your feeling OK BigRedSwitch!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

carrock said:


> I think this is all good advice- if in doubt- SCALE DOWN THE DOSE.
> 
> Not much point having the best 6 pack in the mortuary......... :-(


True, true. I'll see how I feel on Friday, but I suspect I'm too stubborn to give up until my planned cycle is out...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*Day 16*

Rough night last night - felt terrible, blood sugar was high, was burning up and must have visited the toilet maybe 12 times? Slept with the window open and the fan blowing on me all night, and didn't eat at all.

I'm feeling OK (ish) this morning - a bit light headed, and, unsurprisingly, like I've had a disturbed night's sleep.

I think I'm going to call it a day with the DNP run now.

It's been quite an experience - the weight loss has been good (I guess I'll be able to report the final result by the end of next week), but the difference between 125mg and 250mg was way too much for me. Kinda brought home to me just what I was dealing with, and suddenly brought my mortality into very sharp focus.

This won't be the last DNP cycle I do - I reckon I'll do at least 2 more - both of which will be longer (at least 3 weeks, probably a month), as I'm still determined to reach my goals. Key difference being that there's no way in hell I'll be going beyond 125mg.

@DiggyV has been a massive help on this run (if I knew how to give reputation, he'd be getting some!), and has always been there to advise whenever needed. His sage advice with regard to how 'personal' a drug DNP is was something I feel I should have paid more attention to.

So that's it for now. I'll keep updating this log if there's anything else that happens to me, otherwise I'll post my results next week.

Be careful with DNP, folks. Seriously. Yesterday I felt like I was going to become a news story...


----------



## MC-Racer

It's all about learning on this stuff, steady as she goes wins the race, had x2 one week cycles before I could complete my original planned 3 week cycle which im currently nearly at the end of week 2 now.

you'll love seeing what happens after coming off as thats the best bit and it'll re motivate you to do it properly for the next cycle but I found I got massively hungry at some points after coming off which is something you need to watch out for and also you'll realise how **** you actually felt on the stuff.


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 16*
> 
> Rough night last night - felt terrible, blood sugar was high, was burning up and must have visited the toilet maybe 12 times? Slept with the window open and the fan blowing on me all night, and didn't eat at all.
> 
> I'm feeling OK (ish) this morning - a bit light headed, and, unsurprisingly, like I've had a disturbed night's sleep.
> 
> I think I'm going to call it a day with the DNP run now.
> 
> It's been quite an experience - the weight loss has been good (I guess I'll be able to report the final result by the end of next week), but the difference between 125mg and 250mg was way too much for me. Kinda brought home to me just what I was dealing with, and suddenly brought my mortality into very sharp focus.
> 
> This won't be the last DNP cycle I do - I reckon I'll do at least 2 more - both of which will be longer (at least 3 weeks, probably a month), as I'm still determined to reach my goals. Key difference being that there's no way in hell I'll be going beyond 125mg.
> 
> @DiggyV has been a massive help on this run (*if I knew how to give reputation*, he'd be getting some!), and has always been there to advise whenever needed. His sage advice with regard to how 'personal' a drug DNP is was something I feel I should have paid more attention to.
> 
> So that's it for now. I'll keep updating this log if there's anything else that happens to me, otherwise I'll post my results next week.
> 
> Be careful with DNP, folks. Seriously. Yesterday I felt like I was going to become a news story...


*ahem*, little star icon next to the 'Blog this post' link at the bottom right of the post in question. who ever wrote the post gets reps. :rolleye:

Its been no problem mate - sorry it ended the way it did, perhaps the T1 finally came into play as the dose went up. DNP affects every cell in the body, not just the fat cells, so who knows what the interaction was, and where it happened, particularly odd as your BG spiked as well.

onwards and upwards, chalk it down to experience, and 'NOw I know how I need to run it'......


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> *ahem*, little star icon next to the 'Blog this post' link at the bottom right of the post in question. who ever wrote the post gets reps. :rolleye:
> 
> Its been no problem mate - sorry it ended the way it did, perhaps the T1 finally came into play as the dose went up. DNP affects every cell in the body, not just the fat cells, so who knows what the interaction was, and where it happened, particularly odd as your BG spiked as well.
> 
> onwards and upwards, chalk it down to experience, and 'NOw I know how I need to run it'......


Yup - its certainly been a learning experience!  Nice to know its now part of my weight loss ****nal and I can use it to help me achieve my goals.

One thing you mentioned above is 'the release of T1' - what is that, and why would it have affected me?


----------



## Just_Bob

BigRedSwitch said:


> Yup - its certainly been a learning experience!  Nice to know its now part of my weight loss ****nal and I can use it to help me achieve my goals.
> 
> One thing you mentioned above is 'the release of T1' - what is that, and why would it have affected me?


I think he meant you being type 1 cane i to play?


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Yup - its certainly been a learning experience!  Nice to know its now part of my weight loss ****nal and I can use it to help me achieve my goals.
> 
> One thing you mentioned above is 'the release of T1' - what is that, and why would it have affected me?


I meant perhaps the interaction of you being Type 1 and the DNP came in to play at the higher dose.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> I think he meant you being type 1 cane i to play?


Ah, I see.

I have to admit, I was a bit confused about that. I had to drop my insulin by about 20% when I first started on DNP, so I figured it'd be about the same again going to 250mg. Evidently not the case - my blood-sugar just kept climbing after a certain point, and my insulin requirements didn't seem to be affected.

Anyway - no biggie. I'm happy with DNP, and I'll be using it again once I get back from E3 (staring again 17th June), doing a 4 week run at 125mg (ending Sunday 14th July), 2 weeks off, then a final (hopefully) 4 week run starting 29th July and ending Sunday 25th August.

The whole aim of this was to have a flat stomach by my 40th - mid September. I think I can do it...


----------



## FuriousRunt

Hey guys, maybe a silly question, but is it ok to continue creatine on dnp?


----------



## hackskii

I dont see why not, as long as you are drinking water.


----------



## FuriousRunt

Thanks man. Thought I best ask anyway.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

*day 20*

So, it's the Saturday after 'black Wednesday', and its been an odd few days.

I've still been retaining many of the DNP sides - heat and diahorea mostly, but my urine was still smelling bleachy, and I felt wiped out. Had a couple of rough nights sleep, then literally passed out last night.

Noticed yesterday evening when I was driving home for the weekend that my skin had gone quite yellow. I'm one of the many people in the uk who has background Gilbert's Syndrome, so being slightly yellower than most isn't uncommon, but this was more extreme.

It's gone away today, but I've been thinking about this a lot. @DiggyV 's excel sheet works perfectly for calculating DNP dose HL by dose and duration, and based on my 15 days (ish) on 125mg, then literally ONE day on 250mg, my maximum dose in my bloodstream only increased by 80mg.

Considering the reaction that occurred, I have to believe there was something else at play. As has been established, DNP is a linear poison, but this was WAY more than double the reaction. It was very extreme.

Anyway - I didn't have anything to eat post lunch on Wednesday, and have been feeling a little nauseous since, so my appetite has been down. Whilst I appreciate I'm likely still retaining water, my diet has been solid (or sub what it normally is) this last week, and I've lost a somewhat disappointing 1.5lb.

I'm wondering if there's some kind of sudden 'fat grab' occurring during the time immediately after the DNP? I'm still taking the T3 (last one tomorrow - 4 days after I quit), and I'll be weighing in next Saturday as usual. I'm concerned that I might even see a weight gain...

Overall, the losses have been worth it - ill be back to cycling DNP as of mid June once I get back from LA, but size wise, I've lost around 2 inches from my fat tyre round my waist. If I can do that (and maybe a bit more on an extended run) next time, I should be somewhere close to where I need to be.

One final note for people with similarly stubborn abdominal fat to me - be prepared to look worse before you look better. The fat has stripped off at the top of my abdomen now, so my pecs stick out, then dip in for my upper abdomen, then protrude out again when reaching the area around the belly button. Everything has gotten smaller, but it really is called 'stubborn abdomen fat' for a reason...

Stay safe. More updates soon.


----------



## Just_Bob

Hi mate when you say youve lost 1.5 pounds are you referring to the ammount lost since your last weigh in a week ago?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Just_Bob said:


> Hi mate when you say youve lost 1.5 pounds are you referring to the ammount lost since your last weigh in a week ago?


Yes mate - this week. In total (so far - still have some sides, so probably retaining water), the 2.5 week run I did, I lost around 7lbs.

I'm *reasonably* low bf% anyway, and have now lost about 4.25 stone, so that's a massive increase compared to what I was losing in the same period...


----------



## bigbob33

Fcking weights falling off me and my diet has been a bit pants! Losing around 2lb a day at the moment!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

bigbob33 said:


> Fcking weights falling off me and my diet has been a bit pants! Losing around 2lb a day at the moment!


What dose are you on, Bob?

The differences in experiences of even something like DNP goes further to illustrate the fact that my suspicions that the constantly preached situation of 'calorie deficit' is key to weight loss - it literally all depends on the type of metabolism you've got. It's never as clear cut as people make it out to be...


----------



## bigbob33

250mg mate, eating cake and everything and its still dropping off of me


----------



## BigRedSwitch

bigbob33 said:


> 250mg mate, eating cake and everything and its still dropping off of me


Ha! Lucky boy! ;-) I have to say, I do look a lot different, just the scales don't say the same... Still, @DiggyV reckons I may be coming to a point of reasonably big weight loss as DNP leaves my system...


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Ha! Lucky boy! ;-) I have to say, I do look a lot different, just the scales don't say the same... Still, @DiggyV reckons I may be coming to a point of reasonably big weight loss as DNP leaves my system...


2nd week onwards get the biggest losses, and then the first week off as well for me. After that you will get a little rebound, after that you sholud be OK to start again.  - take its steady though mate.

:thumb:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> 2nd week onwards get the biggest losses, and then the first week off as well for me. After that you will get a little rebound, after that you sholud be OK to start again.  - take its steady though mate.
> 
> :thumb:


Absolutely, mate - never above 125mg from now on.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> 2nd week onwards get the biggest losses, and then the first week off as well for me. After that you will get a little rebound, after that you sholud be OK to start again.  - take its steady though mate.
> 
> :thumb:


Actually - in your experience, have you ever heard of someone reacting to the same dose differently on different cycles, or is it generally if you were good, you'll always be good? :thumb:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Even though it's 5 days since I came off DNP, the half-life means it's still in my system for a while yet. It'll still be there until around a week on wednesday (2 weeks after I finished due to 'the incident'), but already I can feel the difference.

I had a few days easy going on the calories (still keeping the carbs down) over the weekend, essentially to try to restore my glycogen. Then I did circuit training this morning.

I actually started doing circuits during my DNP run, so always found it hard. Was out of breath a lot, sweating like a pig etc, so was really feeling the hit. This morning (when I still have around 32mg of DNP in my system), I felt like a god! A skinny god at that! :tongue: I'm feeling bones in places I hadn't felt before (I have a really bony ass, apparently!), so this stuff works incredibly well!

Energy is up (off for a big gym session this evening), and am back on a cut diet. Will also be back cycling ECA as of tomorrow.

I'm actually excited to see what happens over the next few weeks as my system clears, and also quite excited for my next cycle in mid June!


----------



## FuriousRunt

How long does it take to leave the system? I remember seeing a chart somewhere showing how long, but can't find it.


----------



## carrock

I felt completely rid of DNP after 7 days off.

I also found that my energy and performance levels when cycling or in the gym returned to normal after about 5 days.

I would reiterate NOT to do your usual routine- imagine trying to exercise at very high altitude- that's what it feels like whilst on DNP


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> Actually - in your experience, have you ever heard of someone reacting to the same dose differently on different cycles, or is it generally if you were good, you'll always be good? :thumb:


Typically once you have run it at a known good dose, then running it again - ideally from the same source - at same dose will have the same effect.

Always has for me anyway. I have run *ahem* a few courses :rolleye:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

@DiggyV - sorry, mate - another question! I'm only about 1/2 way through my current supply of DNP - will it likely be OK until around 15th June? It doesn't 'go off' or anything, does it?


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> @DiggyV - sorry, mate - another question! I'm only about 1/2 way through my current supply of DNP - will it likely be OK until around 15th June? It doesn't 'go off' or anything, does it?


It can do over time, however keep it dry and away from sunlight and you'll be fine. If they are capped rather than pills, the the gelatine caps can degrade and crumble.


----------



## FuriousRunt

I'm on day 2 of 125mg. Not really feeling anything, other than pooping. Alot.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> It can do over time, however keep it dry and away from sunlight and you'll be fine. If they are capped rather than pills, the the gelatine caps can degrade and crumble.


They're pills, stored in a drawer, cool. Should be all good.


----------



## DiggyV

FuriousRunt said:


> I'm on day 2 of 125mg. Not really feeling anything, other than pooping. Alot.


Normally doesn't hit me until day 3 or 4, but it will pass, or does with me anyway.

Peak levels are at day 5/6, if you are feeling nothing by then, there are three possibilities:

1/. Your DNP is bunk - however as it is 125mg I am guessing DHacks DNP? so it wont be this.

2/. You are more tolerant to the sides

3/. Your carbs are seriously low.

if #1 - find some more :lol:

if #2 - try 250mg for a couple of days and see how you feel

if #3 - Keep as you are and monitor weight, if you lose none after 10 days - see point #1, if you do have losses check point #2

keep us informed pal.

:thumb:


----------



## BigRedSwitch

FuriousRunt said:


> I'm on day 2 of 125mg. Not really feeling anything, other than pooping. Alot.


It'll build - you'll be at your maximum saturation between days 5 and 7. 

Sides come and go. I don't have great motion in my guts anyway, so the DNP poops were quite welcome!


----------



## DiggyV

BigRedSwitch said:


> They're pills, stored in a drawer, cool. Should be all good.


Spot on mate - dry seems to be the most important.


----------



## BigRedSwitch

DiggyV said:


> 3/. Your carbs are seriously low.


If you feel you can live without carbs during your entire cycle, you'd have a much more pleasant experience, trust me.


----------



## FuriousRunt

It's the Albion Synthesis dnp.

I was only planning on doing a weeks worth because I'll be drinking alcohol on the 1st of June. Then starting back up after that.

Was gonna stop on the 25th to give myself 7 days. Will that be long enough?


----------



## DiggyV

FuriousRunt said:


> It's the Albion Synthesis dnp.
> 
> I was only planning on doing a weeks worth because I'll be drinking alcohol on the 1st of June. Then starting back up after that.
> 
> Was gonna stop on the 25th to give myself 7 days. Will that be long enough?


Unless you reduced carbs to 50-100g for 3 days before starting the run, then TBH you would be better off stopping and waiting until after the 1st mate. It will take 3 days to deplete carbs in your muscles, 5 days to reach peak so you really only start making noticeable losses from week 2 onwards. Week one is about lowering Glycogen and holding water :lol:


----------



## bigbob33

DiggyV said:


> Unless you reduced carbs to 50-100mg for 3 days before starting the run, then TBH you would be better off stopping and waiting until after the 1st mate. It will take 3 days to deplete carbs in your muscles, 5 days to reach peak so you really only start making noticeable losses from week 2 onwards. Week one is about lowering Glycogen and holding water :lol:


my carbs are high, im not massively fat and for the past 3 days I've been losing over 2lb a day! All that on only 250mg a day although im constantly sweating my bits off lol


----------



## FuriousRunt

Yeah I'll stop and restart in June then. Thanks for the help DiggyV


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Unless you reduced carbs to *50-100mg *for 3 days before starting the run, then TBH you would be better off stopping and waiting until after the 1st mate. It will take 3 days to deplete carbs in your muscles, 5 days to reach peak so you really only start making noticeable losses from week 2 onwards. Week one is about lowering Glycogen and holding water :lol:


50-100MG- now THATS a proper low carb diet!!!!


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> 50-100MG- now THATS a proper low carb diet!!!!


Its just to make sure your glycogen stores are empty before running the DNP. This way you start burning fat and losing weight faster. Otherwise teh first 3 days are spent depleting the stores as the DNP stops carbs being shuttled in to replenish them.


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> Its just to make sure your glycogen stores are empty before running the DNP. This way you start burning fat and losing weight faster. Otherwise teh first 3 days are spent depleting the stores as the DNP stops carbs being shuttled in to replenish them.


I was being facetious as you wrote mg ( MILLIGRAMS!!!!!)


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> I was being facetious as you wrote mg ( MILLIGRAMS!!!!!)


sorry mate - missed that :lol:


----------



## Gaz_185

bigbob33 said:


> my carbs are high, im not massively fat and for the past 3 days I've been losing over 2lb a day! All that on only 250mg a day although im constantly sweating my bits off lol


Whats your carb intake? How many calories per day?


----------



## bigbob33

Shed loads! 300gms protein and im not watching carbs or fat at all, in fact I ate a family sized Battenberg last night and still lost over 2lb this morning


----------



## FuriousRunt

bigbob33 said:


> Shed loads! 300gms protein and im not watching carbs or fat at all, in fact I ate a family sized Battenberg last night and still lost over 2lb this morning


Wow thats crazy! So do the carbs just get expelled as heat straight away then?


----------



## DiggyV

FuriousRunt said:


> Wow thats crazy! So do the carbs just get expelled as heat straight away then?


yup.

Carbs cant get stored or processed as normal due to the way DNP interrupts the process, so are just burned as heat by the cell. I have had similar losses, running 50-100g carbs a day. Its insane, you can almost see changes day by day.


----------



## carrock

DiggyV said:


> yup.
> 
> Carbs cant get stored or processed as normal due to the way DNP interrupts the process, so are just burned as heat by the cell. I have had similar losses, running 50-100g carbs a day. Its insane, you can almost see changes day by day.


Just so I'm clear- DNP is a carb blocker as opposed to a metabolism booster? I thought it was both


----------



## hackskii

I thought it was an energy uncoupler?


----------



## DiggyV

carrock said:


> Just so I'm clear- DNP is a carb blocker as opposed to a metabolism booster? I thought it was both


No, what it actually does is stop energy being produced efficiently in your cells using Adenosine TriPhosphate (ATP). Instead of producing ATP - through a process called phosphorisation (Adenosine DiPhosphate becomes Adenosine TriPhosphate) - a process which normally fuels your cells (effectively from carbs you ingest), it effectively makes those carbs be used to generate heat. Initially it draws on stored glycogen for fuel after this is depleted it then basically forces cells to use alternative energy sources. So stored fat is burned.

So it does block carbs - but only as a by product of its action on the cell.

The rule of thumb is that DNP raises your metabolism by 10-15% (and higher, depending on the individual) per 100mg in the system. Remember that a dose of 125mg will lead to a peak dose in your system of about 225mg.



hackskii said:


> I thought it was an energy uncoupler?


It is Scott - hit the nail on the head.


----------



## hackskii

I know about the same time in the 50's both the UK, and America were working on energy uncouplers.


----------



## DiggyV

hackskii said:


> I know about the same time in the 50's both the UK, and America were working on energy uncouplers.


The history of it is fascinating TBH, I love researching these things. :thumb:

DNP goes back to the beginning of the 20th Century, and was actually sold as a diet aid in the 30s.


----------



## hackskii

DiggyV said:


> The history of it is fascinating TBH, I love researching these things. :thumb:
> 
> DNP goes back to the beginning of the 20th Century, and was actually sold as a diet aid in the 30s.


I was being conservative when I mentioned my post, chemistry is a strange animal, I am not good at math.

Just basic stuff

I like the idea of using said substance to do the bits that are so freaking hard to get off.......handlebars, that is the worst when dieting.

I liked reading this log, helped me to learn.

That is one of my most favorite things.

Actual experience, and using a group that means something.

Sorry for the ramble, had a few beers...lol


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Latest from me *Day 22?*

Back on ECA now, DNP @ 20.75mg in my blood. Net effect of this is that I don't really feel it anymore (get the occasional small feeling of pressure in my head, but other than that, nothing). Pumps haven't quite returned as they previously were just yet - I can blow the muscles up, but they deflate pretty quickly. I suspect this is because the remnants of the DNP are still preventing a degree of rebuilding the glycogen stores in my muscles.

I feel fine, though - looking slimmer too. I was expecting to have to do another 2 x 1 month runs of DNP, but I think that as long as I keep my diet solid (see my other thread), and my work-rate high, I may only actually need another one.

Gonna have to be training like an animal, though...


----------



## BigRedSwitch

The final update to this thread. I'm now clear of the DNP (been off it over a week and a half), and in total, I lost 11lbs over the course of 12 days. Considering the change in shape to my body, I'd say that all of that was fat too (lost two whole inches on my fatty waist, for example - fat which hasn't moved in about 6 months!)

I'm now back on ECA, and a cutting diet until 17th June, when I'll be running DNP again for another month, then probably moving to 12 weeks of Test E to bulk out the muscle.

Would I recommend DNP? Yes - but real care must be taken. If you're reached the end of this thread, I hope you've taken the time to read all of my updates, as they illustrate quite well just how hairy things can get if you have a bad time with this VERY powerful drug. I won't be going above 125mg at all from now on - I can cope with that, but no more. Follow the rules, avoid carbs and you'll be fine. DO NOT THINK THAT YOU'RE INVINCIBLE!

Good luck, all. Hope you have as much success as I had.


----------



## FuriousRunt

Hi mate, I almost bumped this thread earlier to ask for an update.

11lbs in 12 days is amazing, considering you were on what is considered a low dose.

Will you be making another log for your next cycle?

Well done!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Hey, mate,

Yeah, I'm quite pleased. The difference is significant to say the least! The biggest difference from normal dieting is that there's no chance of catabolism, so ALL the weight loss is fat. Until you see it, you wouldn't believe how much difference to your physique 11lbs of fat makes! 

Even though I'm 6'5", and a fairly stocky fella, I've dropped another size in my jeans - I'm down to a 32" waist now (from 38 when I started training last year), but the DNP is responsible for the last 2"! 

I will do another log for my next cycle, if that would be useful. Assuming I get the results I'm after next time, I may even post photos!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

I finally found the study of DNP use! Makes very interesting reading, and demonstrates the long-term use of DNP, under clinical control. Defo worth a read!

http://www.afboard.com/library/DNP%20+%20T3%20(United%20States%20Patent%204,673,691).pdf


----------



## ammo23

@BigRedSwitch, thanks for running the log...has been great to read :thumb:

I'm currently on day #5 of a low dose run (DH - 125mg). I'd done as much reading as possible and chatted with diggyv before taking the plunge.

days 1-3 were fine, only side to mention was I was struggling to stay awake after 9.30pm! Also of note, I was heating up at about 10-11pm each night, regardless of what I'd eaten!!

Last night day #4 has been my worst night - still not struggling to sleep  but woke up midway through the night, tshirt and boxers ringing wet!! quick change and back to sleep till 7am!

I think the first few days I let myself go, I wasnt keeping carbs low as I intended, even ate pizza friday night! Back on low carbs this week, have been weighing myself every morning (more out of interest than record)...weight went down 1-2lbs first couple of days then back up to where I started...however I've lost 1inch from my waist in the first 5days, hoping that keeps going, as I think I've a hint of upper abs starting to show again 

Just ate a reflex flapjack...man its warm in here!!

Hope you all keep posting :rockon:


----------



## FuriousRunt

Nice man. I can't wait to start at the beginning of June. Did you bother carb depleting before hand?


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Yeah, I did carb depletion first - on @DiggyV 's advice. It's sound advice too - IMHO, if you could live on a carb free diet, you'd have no stresses with DNP at all. It's when you start craving the carbs things start to... 'Warm up'! ;-)

I was comfortably cool for the first few days - principally as my carbs were so low.

It is quite easy for me with that kinda diet, though - years of practice!


----------



## ammo23

Same a BRS, I was pretty much carb depleted until I caved and had the pizza on my second day! Funnily enough it was the day after that I'd dropped 2lbs! Definitely dont go by the scales until you're finished with the cycle!

What time of day were you training @BigRedSwitch? I'm training fasted each morning, usually 2days lifting, 1 cardio, 2 lifting, cardio then rest! As I'm only running 10-14days I'm tempted to add in an extra cardio session each day this week and possibly up to 250mg for 3-5days - do you think that would add to the results, or wreck me!? Sides a really minimal for me at 125 at the min anyway!


----------



## BigRedSwitch

ammo23 said:


> Same a BRS, I was pretty much carb depleted until I caved and had the pizza on my second day! Funnily enough it was the day after that I'd dropped 2lbs! Definitely dont go by the scales until you're finished with the cycle!
> 
> What time of day were you training @BigRedSwitch? I'm training fasted each morning, usually 2days lifting, 1 cardio, 2 lifting, cardio then rest! As I'm only running 10-14days I'm tempted to add in an extra cardio session each day this week and possibly up to 250mg for 3-5days - do you think that would add to the results, or wreck me!? Sides a really minimal for me at 125 at the min anyway!


Yeah - there's a lot of mention about craving carbs. I'm 'lucky' (!?) insofaras I live away from my family 5 days a week (work in Cheshire, live in Surrey), so there are no 'temptations' in my fridge for a majority of the week.  I have to say, though, I'd advise against stuff like Pizza if you get carb cravings - not only is it high in carbs, but due to the fat level, it also *acts* like a low GI food, meaning the carbs are absorbed over a much longer period - that would really burn! 

I train 7 times a week, Monday, Weds and Friday mornings are 1/2 hour circuit training, and Monday-Thursday are about 20 mins of cardo, followed by about an hour of weights. The evening sessions are always after 7.30, due to work commitments.

Doing this on DNP just drained my will to live - I kept it up, but I felt like an over-used dish-rag, tbh. The circuits were particularly difficult due to the shortness of breath.

Due to the way DNP works, you can take things a bit easier, though. Carbs and the sugars they contain are pretty much useless to you (and are burned off as heat), so you can worry less about what you eat whilst on DNP, as it'll make little difference to your weight-loss. More carbs = more discomfort, though. I tried to maintain the intensity of my training to prevent muscle loss (everything looks FLLLLAAAAT on DNP!), but a lot of people generally only maintain a little light cardio.

As for upping the dose - a majority of people seem to be OK on 250mg per day, but after a pretty scary experience about 2 weeks in, I won't be doing that again. I felt like I was going to pass out, had pressure so high in my head I couldn't actually hear for a few minutes and felt like ****e for the next 24 hours. I know my limits, and DNP is way to strong to mess with. I'll be sticking to my 125mg from now on - 11lbs over about 16 days is good enough for me. 

Incidentally, my next blog will be much more specific - I'll be tracking my measurements as well as diet and exercise. After a largely positive experience of DNP, I'm keen to put across in as clear a means as possible the experiences of using it and how to use it properly, dispelling the myth that it's a 'killer'.


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## BigRedSwitch

BTW: A little extra info - I'm now on ECA, and I have to say, I prefer DNP. As tired as I felt on that, ECA is worse. It makes me feel giddy and wiped out at the same time, which is a *really* weird sensation! :wacko:

DNP used to make me pass out when I went to sleep. I've NEVER slept like that before...!


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## ammo23

BigRedSwitch said:


> As for upping the dose - a majority of people seem to be OK on 250mg per day, but after a pretty scary experience about 2 weeks in, I won't be doing that again. I felt like I was going to pass out, had pressure so high in my head I couldn't actually hear for a few minutes and felt like ****e for the next 24 hours. I know my limits, and DNP is way to strong to mess with. I'll be sticking to my 125mg from now on - 11lbs over about 16 days is good enough for me.


Back in January I experience exactly the same as described (I should mention *I wasnt using any supplements at the time*...whilst in the queue to board a flight!) My episode went further; I lost my hearing first, became disoriented, vision turned to darkness then I ended up on the floor. I put it down to haven not eaten that morning up at 4am for 6.35 flight. Interesting that things like that can happen without the use of anything.

I hadnt felt particularly flat/deflated until today, chest is feeling much smaller (not that I'm a big build anyway haha!)


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## ammo23

BigRedSwitch said:


> BTW: A little extra info - I'm now on ECA, and I have to say, I prefer DNP. As tired as I felt on that, ECA is worse. It makes me feel giddy and wiped out at the same time, which is a *really* weird sensation! :wacko:
> 
> DNP used to make me pass out when I went to sleep. I've NEVER slept like that before...!


I'm highly sensitive to any stim based supps...hate the jittery feeling!

Sleep on dnp is awesome - I've used magnesium 30mins before bed too, not sure if thats helping!


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## Big Cat

BigRedSwitch said:


> I finally found the study of DNP use! Makes very interesting reading, and demonstrates the long-term use of DNP, under clinical control. Defo worth a read!
> 
> http://www.afboard.com/library/DNP%20+%20T3%20(United%20States%20Patent%204,673,691).pdf


Gonna have some work to read the whole thread, but this is interesting, since I was looking to combine DNP with a commercial stack of norcoclaurine (beta2-agonist), caffeine, T2 and Kaempferol (known to increase T4 to T3 conversion). The non-receptor related mechanisms of T2 should function like the T3 here, increasing the ATP producing mechanism, without having the additional uncoupling of T3.

Your claims of an 11 lb loss in 22 days with no significant muscle loss has me excited to say the least. I think I will try to mimic your schedule.


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## DiggyV

GinoD94 said:


> goodluck man i wish i had DNP lol


erm - you seem to be posting a lot in peoples journals, hinting (not very subtly) that you need a DNP source.

Doing that is a surefire way to get you a ban on here mate....


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## DiggyV

sorry for the repeat posts guys - dont divulge a source though - you can end up with a ban yourselves for that.


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## hackskii

Big Cat said:


> Gonna have some work to read the whole thread, but this is interesting, since I was looking to combine DNP with a commercial stack of norcoclaurine (beta2-agonist), caffeine, T2 and Kaempferol (known to increase T4 to T3 conversion). The non-receptor related mechanisms of T2 should function like the T3 here, increasing the ATP producing mechanism, without having the additional uncoupling of T3.
> 
> Your claims of an 11 lb loss in 22 days with no significant muscle loss has me excited to say the least. I think I will try to mimic your schedule.


Interesting.


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## funkdocta

Great log.


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## Celica

Sorry for the hijack, been reading this thread and wow it's very interesting.

Would I be okay using DNP for roughly 18-21 days and dieting for a continual 2 weeks and THEN eating at maintenance for 2 weeks before going for another 2-3 weeks? I'm doing 250mg/day. So far on day 4 and I'm sweating like a fiend. Working as a waiter, this will be a bit difficult lol.

Just taking Magnesium, VitC, VitE and some multis. Drinking plenty of water. Eating tomatoes daily for the potassium(cheap mans way out lol.) 1750 cals a day.

So my concern is, is 18-21 days on DNP, then 2 weeks regular deficit, then 2 weeks maintenance and then 2-3 weeks DNP alright or will there be any complications other than continuing to look flat during the dieting phase.

Just an interesting side note, I binge ate 2 days and my weight didn't shift at all lol. When I binge I mean like 10-11k calories. Crazy how inefficient your metabolism becomes. But I'm dialed in now.


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## funkdocta

Celica said:


> Sorry for the hijack, been reading this thread and wow it's very interesting.
> 
> Would I be okay using DNP for roughly 18-21 days and dieting for a continual 2 weeks and THEN eating at maintenance for 2 weeks before going for another 2-3 weeks? I'm doing 250mg/day. So far on day 4 and I'm sweating like a fiend. Working as a waiter, this will be a bit difficult lol.
> 
> Just taking Magnesium, VitC, VitE and some multis. Drinking plenty of water. Eating tomatoes daily for the potassium(cheap mans way out lol.) 1750 cals a day.
> 
> So my concern is, is 18-21 days on DNP, then 2 weeks regular deficit, then 2 weeks maintenance and then 2-3 weeks DNP alright or will there be any complications other than continuing to look flat during the dieting phase.
> 
> Just an interesting side note, I binge ate 2 days and my weight didn't shift at all lol. When I binge I mean like 10-11k calories. Crazy how inefficient your metabolism becomes. But I'm dialed in now.


**** me i don't think i could eat 11k cals if i tried! That's like 17 Whopper burgers from BK! Are you sure your not just a fat guy looking for a way to pig out and not get fatter?


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## Celica

funkdocta said:


> **** me i don't think i could eat 11k cals if i tried! That's like 17 Whopper burgers from BK! Are you sure your not just a fat guy looking for a way to pig out and not get fatter?


Hah, I used to be a fat boy a couple years ago. Now I'm close to being 'lean' but developed a binge eating disorder so I've been spinning my wheels both in body composition and in the gym. I just want to finish this damn cut lol.


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## Alex6534

funkdocta said:


> **** me i don't think i could eat 11k cals if i tried! That's like 17 Whopper burgers from BK! Are you sure your not just a fat guy looking for a way to pig out and not get fatter?


Admit it, the majority of us here are fatties at heart


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## funkdocta

Alex6534 said:


> Admit it, the majority of us here are fatties at heart


Well we would all love to be able to eat and eat and eat whatever we wanted without getting fat! So yeah we are all fatties at heart


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## BigRedSwitch

Actually, I'm a slender, muscular super-hero type at heart. I didn't feel good being a fatty, hence the 5 stone weight loss! :tongue:


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