# slimming pills? T5 mainly?



## Jodi

Hi all,

I'm trying to slim down at the moment, got a lot of toning up to do.. I was wondering what everyones thoughts on T5 tabs are? And if it would be ok to use green tea and sida cordolifia alongside them?

Also any other slimming tips would be much appreciated 

Thanks xx


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## ausbuilt

do you mean these?

http://www.desirablebody.co.uk/t5-slimming-pills.html

if so, they are another supplement company con.

There are two main types of slimming pills, and by that I mean weight loss:

1. Appetite suppressant (stop you eating)

2. Metabolics enahancers- i.e speed up your metabolism.

Under category 1:

-probably the most common/effective is the trade name reductil (Sibutramine):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibutramine

You can still get this from places like:

http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=40

While not an appetite suppressant, you can also try orlistat, which reduces your absorption of fats (but watch out- a major side effect, if you don't cut your fat intake.. is thinking you're about to pass some wind, only to find it was a little more than wind...)

http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/Xenical__120mg_84_Capsules_p_144.html

Under category 2:

- forza T5 is pretending to be useful such as the substances here... but its not!

-Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin Stack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECA_stack

If you want to try this, buy some chest-eze:

http://www.boots.com/en/Do-Do-ChestEze-9-Tablets_865754/

(yes from boots!)

It has ephedrine and caffeine in it already (and its pharmaceutical grade ephedrine, not a crap supplement company), just add a 75mg aspirin:

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/aspirin-enteric-coated-75mg-tablets-low-dose-aspirin_1_10307.html

(you can also get 75mg aspirin in any pharmacy).

take one chest-eze+one 75mg aspirin in the morning, and one after lunch, and your metabolism will be a lot faster!

Normally you will need to take this for 2weeks then have 2 weeks off to let your receptors recover. However, if you take:

http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/product.php?productid=921&cat=0&page=1

you do not need to have any time of, as it keeps your receptors always OK.

Another popular combo:

T3/Clebuterol- This is a mix of a thryoid medication and an astma medication that really gets your metabolism firing- often used as an alternative to the ECA stack above. If you're interested in this slightly more effective stack, then I will run you through more detail.

Be aware that forza, is using a sneaky marketing ploy in calling their product "T5" as real thyroid medication (WHICH DOES speed up your fat burning) are called T4 and T3. MAKE NO MISTAKE T5 is an unproven, supplement conmpany marketing exercise...


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## ausbuilt

do you mean these?

http://www.desirablebody.co.uk/t5-slimming-pills.html

if so, they are another supplement company con.

There are two main types of slimming pills, and by that I mean weight loss:

1. Appetite suppressant (stop you eating)

2. Metabolics enahancers- i.e speed up your metabolism.

Under category 1:

-probably the most common/effective is the trade name reductil (Sibutramine):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibutramine

You can still get this from places like:

http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=40

While not an appetite suppressant, you can also try orlistat, which reduces your absorption of fats (but watch out- a major side effect, if you don't cut your fat intake.. is thinking you're about to pass some wind, only to find it was a little more than wind...)

http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/Xenical__120mg_84_Capsules_p_144.html

Under category 2:

- forza T5 is pretending to be useful such as the substances here... but its not!

-Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin Stack: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECA_stack

If you want to try this, buy some chest-eze:

http://www.boots.com/en/Do-Do-ChestEze-9-Tablets_865754/

(yes from boots!)

It has ephedrine and caffeine in it already (and its pharmaceutical grade ephedrine, not a crap supplement company), just add a 75mg aspirin:

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/aspirin-enteric-coated-75mg-tablets-low-dose-aspirin_1_10307.html

(you can also get 75mg aspirin in any pharmacy).

take one chest-eze+one 75mg aspirin in the morning, and one after lunch, and your metabolism will be a lot faster!

Normally you will need to take this for 2weeks then have 2 weeks off to let your receptors recover. However, if you take:

http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/product.php?productid=921&cat=0&page=1

you do not need to have any time of, as it keeps your receptors always OK.

Another popular combo:

T3/Clebuterol- This is a mix of a thryoid medication and an astma medication that really gets your metabolism firing- often used as an alternative to the ECA stack above. If you're interested in this slightly more effective stack, then I will run you through more detail.

Be aware that forza, is using a sneaky marketing ploy in calling their product "T5" as real thyroid medication (WHICH DOES speed up your fat burning) are called T4 and T3. MAKE NO MISTAKE T5 is an unproven, supplement conmpany marketing exercise...


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## Jodi

Well i was looking at forza but decided against them and would never really buy off the internet anyway.. Ive just bought some eca t5 from a trusted friend in the supplement business, took one thia morning them went to the gym but it didnt seem to do so much.. Think i will try two tomorrow.

I was just wondering of anyone uses them or has used them? And if anyone knew if it would be ok to take sida cordolifia and/or green tea alongside them to boost the effects.. And if it is better to take them after food or on an empty stomach?

Thanks for your help


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## Smitch

You dieting as well?


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## ausbuilt

Jodi said:


> Well i was looking at forza but decided against them and would never really buy off the internet anyway.. Ive just bought some eca t5 from a trusted friend in the supplement business, took one thia morning them went to the gym but it didnt seem to do so much.. Think i will try two tomorrow.
> 
> I was just wondering of anyone uses them or has used them? And if anyone knew if it would be ok to take sida cordolifia and/or green tea alongside them to boost the effects.. And if it is better to take them after food or on an empty stomach?
> 
> Thanks for your help


there is no probs with buying of the internet- all the places I listed are legitimate (including boots!); the problem with supplement companies is, ask any of them if their goods are APPROVED for weight loss (key ingredients) and the answer is no...

T5 is a con..

is this the brand you mean:

http://www.ukhealthproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=47

look carefully at the ingredients list of any supplement:

if it says "eph" it does NOT contain ephedrine- it MUST by law, state EPHEDRINE if it indeed contains any.. "eph" can stand for anything the company feels like, but NOT ephedrine..


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## Hendrix

Jodi said:


> Well i was looking at forza but decided against them and would never really buy off the internet anyway.. Ive just bought some eca t5 from a trusted friend in the supplement business, took one thia morning them went to the gym but it didnt seem to do so much.. Think i will try two tomorrow.
> 
> I was just wondering of anyone uses them or has used them? And if anyone knew if it would be ok to take sida cordolifia and/or green tea alongside them to boost the effects.. And if it is better to take them after food or on an empty stomach?
> 
> Thanks for your help


Chances are will not be real eca, well not ephedrinre anyway. I would go with the chest-eze and asprin sugestion above, would be very effective. Just dont tell the chemist its for weight loss purposes


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## luke80

Jodi said:


> Well i was looking at forza but decided against them and would never really buy off the internet anyway.. Ive just bought some eca t5 from a trusted friend in the supplement business, took one thia morning them went to the gym but it didnt seem to do so much.. Think i will try two tomorrow.


I got some of these from a reliable supply and they nearly blew my mind, make sure there not fakes as me and a mate took them at work and we were almost buzzing off them. I got increased heartrate and shakes with loads of energy, we got a lot of work done that day.


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## G-man99

T5 bought from shops or supplement companies do not contain real ephedrine.

It can be bought from ugl's though and these are the real ECA


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## ausbuilt

G-man99 said:


> T5 bought from shops or supplement companies do not contain real ephedrine.
> 
> It can be bought from ugl's though and these are the real ECA


agree.. but just as easy to get the real deal from boots


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## G-man99

What are the ratios??


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## ausbuilt

G-man99 said:


> What are the ratios??


it comes with 18.3mg of ephedrine, 30mg of caffeine and some theophylline; you can add some extra caffeine and 75mg of aspririn..


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## ausbuilt

Sy. said:


> Ausbuilt. Is chesteze behind the counter? take it you can only buy so much at one time as well? wonder if they look out for gym types :lol:


yes, its behind the counter- 1 pack at a time (9 tabs) i go to 3-4 chemists and stock up every few days.. also boots online 

I've never had a problem, and I'm not small... even if you're a gym type you could have bronchial probs/asthma that needs chest-eze...


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## G-man99

ausbuilt said:


> it comes with 18.3mg of ephedrine, 30mg of caffeine and some theophylline; you can add some extra caffeine and 75mg of aspririn..


Cheers mate, just taken a look to compare as the ones I can get are 30/200/50.

That would be 2 chest-eze per 1 ugl tab so works out at a similar price really :thumbup1:


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## Jodi

Whats ugl mean? Yes I'm dieting and I dont know the ratios but I'm pretty sure they're eca,the person I got them from is a bit on the dodgy side of the supplement biz so can get different drugs and stuff, he told me I should be taking two a day, is that right? It may be better if I give you an idea of what I'm like...

I'm 5 ft 2" and 9st but not massively flabby, just need to trim down and tone up... I work in an office so work isnt very active.. I go to the gym 3 times a week and to a dance combat class once a week, (used to go pole dancing once a week too but i cant go to there anymore so looking into another one)... I eat relatively healthy, no chips and rubbish any more, eat plenty of protein rich foods and loads of fruit, try to eat a lot of veg but its hard with work and because i do evenong classes at college twice a week.. So a very busy lifestyle haha  I will also be going swimming once a fortnight, only been once so far...

Any help and/or advice is much appreciated so thanks for all your comments


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## Jodi

Oh and ive already spent £35 on the pills i got so wont be buying any chesteeze, ive already read about this on another thread anyway - i wouldnt have the time to go around getting them its too much hassle. So has anyone got any tips that could help me with the pills ive got, can i take sida cordifolia and/or green tea with them and/or an additional appitite suppressant... Also is it better to take on an empty stomaxh or with food? And how many should i take per day?


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## luke80

Not sure about sida cordifolia as it contains ephidrine in a natural (non pharmacutical) state, but green tea is ok. Not sure about weather its best on empty or full stomach but most people take one after breakfast and one after lunch. I wouldn't say this was best but it gets good results.


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## Ninja

Sy. said:


> Ausbuilt. Is chesteze behind the counter? take it you can only buy so much at one time as well? wonder if they look out for gym types :lol:


Went to boots today and they were willing to sell it to me but the counter where they sell it was closed on Sunday I was told they sell it Monday-Saturday..Will give it a go tomorrow Also ordered online


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## G-man99

UGL= Under Ground Lab


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## phosphor

This is a good thread, I am looking to shed some extra body fat, so please post results.


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## Jodi

I was also wondering.. Are t5 pills appetite suppressants? And do they take a while to get into your system properly? Only had one again today cos i got up late but at work tomorrow so will be having two


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## ausbuilt

Jodi said:


> I was also wondering.. Are t5 pills appetite suppressants? And do they take a while to get into your system properly? Only had one again today cos i got up late but at work tomorrow so will be having two


All stimulants suppress appetite: cocaine is the best stimulant, sheds weight (increases metabolism) and suppresses appetite (anorectic agent); everything else is less effective, and cheaper ;-) but at least legal!

While a proper ECA stack will mildly suppress appetite, legally this is the most effective appetite suppressant:

probably the most common/effective is the trade name reductil (Sibutramine):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibutramine

You can still get this from places like:

http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?...d&productId=40

of course you can get it on prescription from you GP if your BMI is 30 or over (you don't look like this would be you..)


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## Jodi

No i think my bmi is something like 22? Would i be ok to take reductil alongside my eca t5? And is there anything herbal i could try to supress appetite? Thanks


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## Pictor

Ausbuilt is this site good to go mate?!

http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?...d&productId=40


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## maskill86

if only cocain was cheap enought to do everyday as a weight loss lol


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## G-man99

Speed is :whistling:


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## ausbuilt

big ste said:


> Ausbuilt is this site good to go mate?!
> 
> http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?...d&productId=40


i've used it as have others on this board (i found out about it here).


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## ausbuilt

Jodi said:


> No i think my bmi is something like 22? Would i be ok to take reductil alongside my eca t5? And is there anything herbal i could try to supress appetite? Thanks


yes, you can def take reductil with ECA- you won't eat much at all!!

at BMI of 22 you won't get an NHS prescription for it, but you can buy it on the website i posted...

Herbal wise- all very weak- in theory herbal stuff should work; in practice no supplement company puts enough of the active compound in the capsules to work effectively (unless you take loads, and it gets very expensive).

The ONLY herbal substance that has proven to increase metabolism is Ma Huang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra


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## stephy

How about some willpower to supress appetite rather than shovling loads of pills down your throat?


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## ausbuilt

stephy said:


> How about some willpower to supress appetite rather than shovling loads of pills down your throat?


i can resist everything but temptation... :lol:

by the way, next time you're thinking about taking the pill (contraceptive) for RECREATIONAL sex (i.e sex you have without the biblical intent of pro-creation); just use will power and say no.... :innocent:


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## stephy

ausbuilt said:


> i can resist everything but temptation... :lol:
> 
> by the way, next time you're thinking about taking the pill (contraceptive) for RECREATIONAL sex (i.e sex you have without the biblical intent of pro-creation); just use will power and say no.... :innocent:


By the way, i cant take the pill for health reasons.....try again :lol:


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## ausbuilt

stephy said:


> By the way, i cant take the pill for health reasons.....try again :lol:


LOL umm, well you can just tell your partner "if its not on, its not on"... or do you make him use "willpower" and play vatican roulette?

No need to answer, not prying into your personal life, but you're attractive, and I assume a healthy female who may on occasion indulge in recreational sex (perfectly natural and to be encouraged!!) but my point is that when it comes to nice things in life (food and sex are top of my list, possibly in that order!!) sometimes willpower is SORELY tested.... LOL


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## G-man99

stephy said:


> How about some willpower to supress appetite rather than shovling loads of pills down your throat?


Very true, if you really want to be slim etc then you need to put the hard work in


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## Smitch

I'd also consider carb cycling or a low/no carb diet.


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## stephy

ausbuilt said:


> LOL umm, well you can just tell your partner "if its not on, its not on"... or do you make him use "willpower" and play vatican roulette?
> 
> No need to answer, not prying into your personal life, but you're attractive, and I assume a healthy female who may on occasion indulge in recreational sex (perfectly natural and to be encouraged!!) but my point is that when it comes to nice things in life (food and sex are top of my list, possibly in that order!!) sometimes willpower is SORELY tested.... LOL


Its a bit different tho, its not like your having NO food when dieting...you just need to make better choices, and taking loads of pills shouldnt really be the main route you go down IMO i know green tea etc isnt damaging to your health anyways. if shes eating well and exercising then there shouldnt be too much need for t5s and the others she wants to add in....but thats just my opinion


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## ausbuilt

well in my books, if I have a headache I take an aspirin.. if get a tooth drilled I take the anaesthetic, if I want to relax with dinner I have a glass of wine..

outside of dangerous doses of DNP, no fat burner/diet aid is going to make you slim, but, people these days put on fat because calorie dense foods are UNNATURALLY easy to get...

In my grandmothers day, a roast chicken for dinner meant catching the chicken (chase around the chick pen), kill it, pluck it cook it... thats a lot more energy than going to the hot food counter and buying a roast chicked at tesco/sainsbury etc.. of course in her day, it was rare to see a fat person....

so sometimes an appetite suppressant is helpful to stick to a diet (of what ever type you choose to follow); sometimes a fat burner/metabolic enhancer helps with motivation as you see results quicker...

and maybe they are an unnatural approach, but then again so is ingesting food without hunting/gathering and expending energy to get it first..


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## stephy

ausbuilt said:


> well in my books, if I have a headache I take an aspirin.. if get a tooth drilled I take the anaesthetic, if I want to relax with dinner I have a glass of wine..
> 
> ..


and if you could get rid of headaches, tooth pain etc without the aid of them would you rather not? lol

were obv 2 diff types of person, i wont take pain killers etc unless im climbing the walls in agony, so shall agree to disagree


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## ausbuilt

stephy said:


> and if you could get rid of headaches, tooth pain etc without the aid of them would you rather not? lol
> 
> were obv 2 diff types of person, i wont take pain killers etc unless im climbing the walls in agony, so shall agree to disagree


you don't look it, but obviously you're way tougher than me!!


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## mozza_84

Jodi said:


> Well i was looking at forza but decided against them and would never really buy off the internet anyway.. Ive just bought some eca t5 from a trusted friend in the supplement business, took one thia morning them went to the gym but it didnt seem to do so much.. Think i will try two tomorrow.
> 
> I was just wondering of anyone uses them or has used them? And if anyone knew if it would be ok to take sida cordolifia and/or green tea alongside them to boost the effects.. And if it is better to take them after food or on an empty stomach?
> 
> Thanks for your help


used these for 2 months with a decent diet and lots of cardio and dropped 4 percent bmi over a 12 month period of taking them on and off ive gone from 37 bmi to 25.6 so i think they work well with the rite routine


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## Jodi

I dont have any willpower whatsoever, wish i did but food is too good, hunger always gets the better of me


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## Smitch

Jodi said:


> I dont have any willpower whatsoever, wish i did but food is too good, hunger always gets the better of me


As soon as you stop taking the pills the weight will go back on then.


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## stephy

Jodi said:


> I dont have any willpower whatsoever, wish i did but food is too good, hunger always gets the better of me


Maybe your eating the wrong kinds of foods? i know that when im eating proper, good food, hunger isnt a problem, its greed more than anything with me,...Have u posted what your typical diet is?


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## G-man99

There is no need to be hungry whilst on a diet, if you eat smart then you can still lose weight and not have to starve yourself.

It sounds like your diet is all wrong and that chemicals are not the answer.

Chemicals should ideally be used towards the end of your diet when your loses have virtually stopped from doing the normal diet/cardio routine.

If you use them from the start then where do you turn to when your results stop???


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## Jodi

Yeah ive posted what my usual diet is.. My problem is that i eat too much, i eat more than most men and i dont have enough time to keep going doing hours in the gym every day to burn it off. Basically i'm going abroad in july and want to have a decent bikini body for it..

Ive been dieting and excersizing for the last 8 monthsbut nothing srems to show big enough results so thats why i want to turn to pills, for a helping hand


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## G-man99

No disrespect but you can't really want the body that you desire so much if your not prepared to make the necessary sacrifices needed and cut back on the food.

No amount of pills, chemicals, or cardio will do what you want them to do unless you address your diet.

It's all about trying to change your mindset and just try and imagine yourself on the beach looking great before you have another mouth full of your food as it's them extra mouth fulls which will stop you from achieving the look you want


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## ausbuilt

Jodi said:


> Yeah ive posted what my usual diet is.. My problem is that i eat too much, i eat more than most men and i dont have enough time to keep going doing hours in the gym every day to burn it off. Basically i'm going abroad in july and want to have a decent bikini body for it..
> 
> Ive been dieting and excersizing for the last 8 monthsbut nothing srems to show big enough results so thats why i want to turn to pills, for a helping hand


I completely get you.. you want a bikini body ASAP and dieting is hard.. if it was easy, everyone would look hot!

they are all just tools, so use the tools you need to control appetite...

I'd like to see everyone go have a great night out without alcohol... of course you can... but so much easier and more enjoyable with a drink!


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## Jodi

ausbuilt said:


> I completely get you.. you want a bikini body ASAP and dieting is hard.. if it was easy, everyone would look hot!
> 
> they are all just tools, so use the tools you need to control appetite...
> 
> I'd like to see everyone go have a great night out without alcohol... of course you can... but so much easier and more enjoyable with a drink!


i completely agree with you. Getting the body you want is hard, 70% (if not more) of men use or have used steroids to get big and get the body they want, i see this as the same sort of thing


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## stephy

where did u post ur diet? i cant see it...whats your typical days food like?


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## Jodi

I didnt post an exact breakdown but explained a little...

I try to keep it varied...

Anyway its usually something like..

7am - oats/porridge

10am - banana or special k bar

1pm - chicken or tuna sandwiches with wholemeal bread (sometimes a pasta/salad/rice dish instead) tangerine/pineapple/mango/melon, activia yoghurt or muller light, sometimes a pack of lower fat/cal crisps like quavers..

4pm - half a sandwich on the way to college on some days or an apple or something just to keep me going..

7pm (or 9pm on college days) - chicken/pork/beef or some other

meat, usually with veg and/or rice, sometimes with a sauce..

on training days il sometimes have a 90+ protein shake an hour or so before bed.. and i love celery with low fat cottage cheese for snacks...


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## stephy

Its not bad but i think maybe the fruit could be cut a little, the yoghurt swapped for something else, the quavers cut out....add some source of protein to breakfast, snack on nuts (brazil, almond, walnuts etc) and add in a couple of days with oily fish.....Im by no means any type of expert but thats just my personal opinion...generally things like special K bars, and some sauces are laden with sugar...


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## Ninja

stephy said:


> Its not bad but i think maybe the fruit could be cut a little, the yoghurt swapped for something else, the quavers cut out....add some source of protein to breakfast, snack on nuts (brazil, almond, walnuts etc) and add in a couple of days with oily fish.....Im by no means any type of expert but thats just my personal opinion...generally things like special K bars, and some sauces are laden with sugar...


x2, cut on carbs and add more protein that's for sure

Ninja


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## MissBC

Jodi said:


> No i think my bmi is something like 22? Would i be ok to take reductil alongside my eca t5? And is there anything herbal i could try to supress appetite? Thanks


jesus reductil, eca and t5 and an appetite suppressant you will destroy your metabolism and thyroid in no time!

Why not just diet properly do more cardio and flag the 'quick fix pills" until you REALLY need them

Dieting is not easy and if you wanna ruin your metabolism and put all the weight on and some when you come off the pills then go for it, take 10 different fat burners, im sure you will lose weight


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## Jodi

no im just taking t5 which is eca, i was wondering if an appetite suppressant would help?


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## ausbuilt

MissBC said:


> jesus reductil, eca and t5 and an appetite suppressant you will destroy your metabolism and thyroid in no time!
> 
> sorry missBC, but reductil has no effect on thyroid function, other than perhaps the standard downregulation as a result of low carb intake on a diet. ECA also has no effect on Thyroid function- ECA is not recommended for hyperthyroid people for obvious reasons, however, a normal individual will have no issue.
> 
> In fact correctly supplementing T3 during a diet is one of the most beneficial things you can do for your metabolism (there is a protocol based on body temp, not random dosages, you can search the forum for "temperature" and these thyroid related posts will appear
> 
> Why not just diet properly do more cardio and flag the 'quick fix pills" until you REALLY need them
> 
> i would say she feels she really needs them now, prob her motivation will increase when she sees result
> 
> Dieting is not easy and if you wanna ruin your metabolism
> 
> actually if you follow a reduced carb diet, you ruin your metabolism, and provable in this way:
> 
> 1. pre-diet measure your morning body temp 5 mornings in a row
> 
> 2. keep measuring, while doing a 1200 cal/day diet for 6 weeks
> 
> 3. look at a graph of your declining body temp- and indicator low thryoid function
> 
> also see studies such as:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2341229
> 
> and put all the weight on and some when you come off the pills then go for it, take 10 different fat burners, im sure you will lose weight


fat burners are actually just a way of speeding up your basal metabolism, however, they are a bit of a sledgehammer approach. I actually advocate sensible use of T3 (no clen!) for ANY diet (based on the body temp protocol- well blood tests are better, but none wants to pay for these).

I think fat-burners are looked at more favourably as they are largely over the counter, and often "herbal" (i love when ephedra is listed instead of the refined ephedrine HCL, as ephedra is just a herb.... just like the cocoa plant is the basis for cocaine!).

While dieting to lose fat is not fun, nor pleasant, some people need extra help suppressing appetite (not everyone has an iron will), or speeding up the metabolism while trying to address calorie reduction/exercise.. the tools are there if needed- if you as an individual don't need them, lucky for you!

I used to use reductil, but found on a keto diet i'm never hungry... so no longer use it.. but not everyone likes the keto diet (oddly I find it easy to stick to)..

Anyhow, not meaning to be antagonistic, I just thought the comments regarding metabolism and thyroid function may have caused the original poster undue anxiety needlessly as the comments where unfortunately not based on fact; but you live and learn


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## ausbuilt

Jodi said:


> no im just taking t5 which is eca, i was wondering if an appetite suppressant would help?


ECA will mildly blunt your appetite, but also has metabolism raising effects, as its similar to amphetamine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedrine

however, reductil will strongly reduce your appetite, but have no metabolic effects, as its actually a close relative of Prozac- it fools your brain into thinking you're happy and full of food, so you're not hungry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibutramine

though it has its own risks, its still available (I purchased it in thailand recently, even though its officially not made for sale anymore- there are plenty of generics from India..)


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## MissBC

well thats cool you just keep advocating 'fat burners' quick fixes and diet pills to someone who is less than knowledgable on the subject and more than likely requires just more information on a correct diet and cardio programme to achieve her goals!

I will not comment more on this matter, so you feel free to carry on!


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## MissBC

ausbuilt said:


> though it has its own risks, its still available (I purchased it in thailand recently, even though its officially not made for sale anymore- there are plenty of generics from India..)


so your advising her to buy prescription medication WHICH HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF THE MARKET over the internet....... really helpful and smart

Do you not think there was a reason for it being taken off the market????


----------



## ausbuilt

MissBC said:


> so your advising her to buy prescription medication WHICH HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF THE MARKET over the internet....... really helpful and smart
> 
> Do you not think there was a reason for it being taken off the market????


I'm not advocating and the information is there for her to read, just as you have- I clearly state there are risks, as does the information I posted.

People are free to make their own decisions; after all plenty on this board have taken DNP, which is by far the most effective fat burner ever- with the unfortunate life threatening side effect that you can literally melt your internal proteins as it works in a manner that is not rate limited in the body- i.e the more you take, the more your temp goes up...

Its even used as an industrial chemical, and has not been used officially for human consumption since the 1940s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol

DNP is described as "...a cellular metabolic poison"

Despite this "...DNP was used extensively in diet pills from 1933 to 1938 after Cutting and Tainter at Stanford University made their first report on the drug's ability to greatly increase metabolic rate.[1][2] After only its first year on the market Tainter estimated that probably at least 100,000 persons had been treated with DNP in the United States, in addition to many others abroad."

Although it also notes that: "...While DNP itself is considered by many to be too risky for human use, its mechanism of action remains under investigation as a potential approach for treating obesity.[17] Currently, research is being conducted on uncoupling proteins naturally found in humans."

If you search for DNP on this board, quite a few people have used it..

WHen a person asks for information about weight loss products, I think the idea of a forum is to share information- both pros and cons, but not pass a judgement- after all, I think plenty on here are natural (or at least not on AAS) and others are not; its an individual choice on how to achieve goals (and same could be said for breast implants- they have risks, but plenty to choose to have them).

The idea is informed choice, not scare mongering. You point in your post would be valid (sarcasm aside) if I had posted "just take this" or not posted the all the relevant information-including the information that the product is officially not distributed anymore.

It is up to the person reading the information to decide whether something is for them or not. Had she asked for information about DNP, I would say its dangerous (life threateningly so) yet pretty commonly used for such a compound... its not for me to judge the people using it.

I'm not advocating fat burners- after all if they where the answer, we'd all be walking around ripped after popping a few pills; and by the way, taking a few shots of AAS in the butt for a year doesn't turn guys into Jay Cutler or Arnold either.. if only just taking a pill made that change..

I found a diet which suppresses my appetite and i no longer use appetite suppressants, nor do I use fat burners, as I find thyroid supplementation far superior.. however, I presented what I knew about fat burners, as that was what was asked for by the person starting the thread...


----------



## Jodi

Thanks ausbuilt, and everyone else who has commented  does anyone know common side effects of t5?

The side effects I've been having are:

-Feeling hot then cold

-Shakes and generally feeling weak

-Sometimes feeling a bit sick

-Always got a horrid taste in my mouth

-Sudden lumpy feeling in my throat, almost like my throat is closing up

-Breathlessness occurs a lot easier than usual

-Frequent headaches and strong tension headaches (this could be due to computer work, not pills?)

-No change in appetite at all

-Stabbing pains in the heart/chest

-Depression/feeling a bit down

(some of these symptoms I had before taking them but they have got worse since taking the pills)

I've had a look on the web and most of this seems to be normal, can anyone see anything I should be worried about?

I've lost 3lbs in my first week and I've struggled to lose weight in the past so I'm very happy with the results so far 

Also, how should i take them? 2week on 2week off?

Thanks again for all your help!


----------



## Jodi

Yeah im dieting too, mentioned that earlier... It might not be the best diet but its hard cos i live wirh parents etc. So i dont buy the food and cant afford to either lol


----------



## Brawn

how oftern do you take these chesteze?


----------



## gymjim

i have been on the chesteze about 9 days, ( 2 packs at 2 a day) fasted cardio, with a double expresso before with the chesteze, feel better on that, than i do from my ECA's! due to actually knowing it is complete EPH!


----------



## Brawn

I took just one this morning with an aspirin and the same again at 1pm and 6pm and I kid you not I was rushing my t1ts off! Should I up the dosage to two at a time? 9 in a day seems a bit much.


----------



## MissBC

Jodi said:


> Yeah im dieting too, mentioned that earlier... It might not be the best diet but its hard cos i live wirh parents etc. So i dont buy the food and *cant afford to either lol*


why not buy good food instead of slimming pills then?


----------



## gymjim

nooooooooo brawn i didnt mean 9 in a day, i ment u get 9 in a pack, and i brought 2 packs, ure only allowed to by 3 at a time btw, and i take 2 a day, 1 in morning 1 in the aft, and have cleared my chest right up ha ha 

yeh i get the effect also, specially from a tablespoon coffe also. whoooooooooooooooo, love it!


----------



## Brawn

Ruggersplayer said:


> nooooooooo brawn i didnt mean 9 in a day, i ment u get 9 in a pack, and i brought 2 packs, ure only allowed to by 3 at a time btw, and i take 2 a day, 1 in morning 1 in the aft, and have cleared my chest right up ha ha
> 
> yeh i get the effect also, specially from a tablespoon coffe also. whoooooooooooooooo, love it!


Ha Ha I thought that seamed a bit drastic! lol

I've been bouncing off the walls all day on just 3 I think if I upped the dose I would end up getting committed. I drink a hell of alot of coffee any way and also drink green tea but I think I'll leave off the green tea for a couple of weeks until I've come off them. I can't believe these are sold over the counter. If I bought them just to clear up a chesty cough I would think something was seriously up!! lol


----------



## Brawn

Jodi said:


> Yeah im dieting too, mentioned that earlier... It might not be the best diet but its hard cos i live wirh parents etc. So i dont buy the food and cant afford to either lol


When I 1st started training I had a smilier problem being in the army living in the block and not having a kitchen so I had to eat in the scoff house.

But I must say from your posts it looks like your after a fast track to weight loss and will no doubt drink loads and eat rubbish and end up like just another fat lass with lover handles over her jeans and bingo wings unless you put the effort in. Your holiday is just a holiday. You have your body for the rest of your life. Don't become a sadistic.


----------



## Jodi

No i want to carry it on after my holiday but i can do that with diet and excercise.. Just need a helping hand to start off.. Once i get to where i want to be i will stop with the pills and just keep it up with atrict diet and excercise like after the holiday.

I eat a decent diet, not the best but its healthy enough and as healthy as i can get for now. And i have literally a couple of drinks at weekend...

Can somebody please just answer my questions rather than skitting me and throwing loads of criticism?

I want to know if i need to cycle consumption? Like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off?


----------



## Jimbo 1

Yes the two weeks on two off would be ok gives the receptors a chance to recover,

If you can get some Cardio in every day even a 30 min walk they work better,

I found when i used the ECA stack the weight stayed off for a long time even without cardio

Make sure your product has Ephedrine HCL in it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedrine_HCL

You could also get some Narnegin

http://www.blurtit.com/q928374.html


----------



## ausbuilt

Jodi said:


> I want to know if i need to cycle consumption? Like 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off?


Normally, you need 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, as your receptors down regulate, BUT if you add ketotifen, then there is NO need to cycle.. stay on as long as you like...

http://forums.steroid.com/archive/index.php/t-538.html

you can buy it here:

http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/search.php?mode=search&page=1

get the tablets.

As Jimbo 1 states, narengin works at extending how long the ephedrine works through the day, but only ketotifen will up regulate your receptors and let you keep using the ECA stack without cycling..


----------



## Pictor

Ausbuilt do you reckon I could take x2 chestEze and 75mg aspirin at the same time with my current stack-

1,3-Dimethylamylamine 30 mgs

Caffeine 200 mgs

Synephrine Hcl 10 mgs

Yohimbine Hcl 10 mgs

2 weeks on 2 weeks off...

Cheers


----------



## exalta

Ausbuilt, how is reductil on blood pressure/general sides? Would it be ok to supplement alongside an oral AAS, or would it be likely to push up blood pressure?

Also wondering about the ECA...is it quite catabolic?

(You should start a Q&A thread.)


----------



## ausbuilt

big ste said:


> Ausbuilt do you reckon I could take x2 chestEze and 75mg aspirin at the same time with my current stack-
> 
> i don't recommend 2x chest-eze at once unless you are a dedicated coke fiend...  however if you mean 2xchest-eze in a day, then fine..
> 
> 1,3-Dimethylamylamine 30 mgs
> 
> Caffeine 200 mgs
> 
> Synephrine Hcl 10 mgs
> 
> Yohimbine Hcl 10 mgs
> 
> i pop one of these everymorning (from elite fitness?) see the link in my 2nd answer below on BP about using enalpril- if you are taking yohimbine, you're only getting 50% of the results if you don't use enalapril
> 
> 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> if you take this in the morning, i would space the chest-eze out a few hours later.. you can of course try both at once, just monitor your heart rate- it WILL be higher, but you may tolerate it.
> 
> i see no advantage of cycling- I would just add ketotifen:
> 
> http://forums.steroid.com/archive/index.php/t-538.html
> 
> and you can get it:
> 
> http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/product.php?productid=921&cat=0&page=1
> 
> Cheers





exalta said:


> Ausbuilt, how is reductil on blood pressure/general sides? Would it be ok to supplement alongside an oral AAS, or would it be likely to push up blood pressure?
> 
> yes, a possible side effect of reductil is elevated BP. The only orals that increase BP are Dianabol and Anapolon/Anadrol- but you can use either a mild diuretic, like Lasix or an AI like arimidex help reduce the water retention, and this lowers the BP from those orals.
> 
> AAS orals raise BP purely as a function of water retention (but this is true of test as well, unless you take an AI, NOT a SERM).
> 
> I take enalapril (brand name vasotec) you can get this from unitedpharmacies as well; its an ACE inhibitor, which reduced BP (from both AAS and Reductil) and as a side effect- helps reduce bodyfat! see:
> 
> http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/dharkam/captopril-and-fat-loss.htm
> 
> captopril is old school, enalapril is a new, better version- i use 20mg same as 50mg of captopril
> 
> Also wondering about the ECA...is it quite catabolic?
> 
> at 2x chest-eze a day, there is some evidence that it's muscle sparing. However, its very effective for fat loss, and you can't flex fat. At the end of the day, if you're not taking some AAS, its impossible to lose fat and not lose muscle- fat loss is inherently catabolic, and from a metabolic perspective, muscle is expensive- your body will burn muscle before fat, UNLESS you trick your metabolism- only way to do this is with T3 and/or AAS. It may suck if you're natural (don't know if you are) but the truth hurts-dieting without AAS is catabolic.
> 
> (You should start a Q&A thread.)


----------



## Pictor

Cheers mate... So if I was to take the fat loss stack first thing 'like I already do' before fasted cardio! And yes there the ones, from elite fitness. Then x1 chestEze with 75mg aspirin in the afternoon, Should I add 200mg Caffeine as well?. So those other two meds you recommend enalapril/ketotifen for better results and to prevent having to cycle, when and what dose should I take mate?!

Cheers


----------



## ausbuilt

big ste said:


> Cheers mate... So if I was to take the fat loss stack first thing 'like I already do' before fasted cardio! And yes there the ones, from elite fitness. Then x1 chestEze with 75mg aspirin in the afternoon, Should I add 200mg Caffeine as well?. So those other two meds you recommend enalapril/ketotifen for better results and to prevent having to cycle, when and what dose should I take mate?!
> 
> Cheers


do either the pre-made stack or chest-eze/aspirin before cardio- I think the ECA pre-cardio will kick your cardio harder, then after cardio take the yohimbine stack. then the 2nd ECA in the afternoon...

ketotifen, take in the morning (one tab, from the link I provided), enalapril (take 20mg tab) can make some people drowsy, so for those i'd say take it at night, however, with all the stimulants you're taking, prob no big deal to take it in the morning too...

I use a wrist cuff BP monitor:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-R3-Wrist-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B000VD6UOG

and I do cardio with:

http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/polar_ft80_heart_rate_monitor.html

I also use it to time my rest intervals with weights, however, any HR monitor is fine, just so long as you do your fasted cardio for 22-30min at 85% of your HR...


----------



## Hendrix

ausbuilt said:


> fat burners are actually just a way of speeding up your basal metabolism, however, they are a bit of a sledgehammer approach. I actually advocate sensible use of T3 (no clen!) for ANY diet (based on the body temp protocol- well blood tests are better, but none wants to pay for these).
> 
> I think fat-burners are looked at more favourably as they are largely over the counter, and often "herbal" (i love when ephedra is listed instead of the refined ephedrine HCL, as ephedra is just a herb.... just like the cocoa plant is the basis for cocaine!).
> 
> While dieting to lose fat is not fun, nor pleasant, some people need extra help suppressing appetite (not everyone has an iron will), or speeding up the metabolism while trying to address calorie reduction/exercise.. the tools are there if needed- if you as an individual don't need them, lucky for you!
> 
> I used to use reductil, but found on a keto diet i'm never hungry... so no longer use it.. but not everyone likes the keto diet (oddly I find it easy to stick to)..
> 
> Anyhow, not meaning to be antagonistic, I just thought the comments regarding metabolism and thyroid function may have caused the original poster undue anxiety needlessly as the comments where unfortunately not based on fact; but you live and learn


I agree,

I love the fact that some things are considered just herbs and some medicine. I walked into a mental hospital to visit a good friend who lost the plot a little from cannabis/skunk (a substance most users will point out to be a natural herb). There were quite a few users in the same ward in a really bad way.

There are so many pharmacutical drugs which have active ingredients from (natural herbs, roots etc.) In fact most modern medicine.

Your so right, and it drives me a little bit crazy that so many things are considered totally acceptaple due to their prescription availability( these drugs are sold by SALESMEN, pitching their stuff like any other commodity, isn't heroin processed from poppies(pretty sure thats a plant)

Sorry gone off on one a little, but you know what i'm saying.


----------



## ausbuilt

hendrix said:


> I agree,
> 
> I love the fact that some things are considered just herbs and some medicine. I walked into a mental hospital to visit a good friend who lost the plot a little from cannabis/skunk (a substance most users will point out to be a natural herb). There were quite a few users in the same ward in a really bad way.true, everyone glosses over the permanent pyschosis that can result from constant use.
> 
> There are so many pharmacutical drugs which have active ingredients from (natural herbs, roots etc.) In fact most modern medicine. correct, pharma companies just isolate the active ingredients, then modify for improved delivery and activity
> 
> Your so right, and it drives me a little bit crazy that so many things are considered totally acceptaple due to their prescription availability( these drugs are sold by SALESMEN, pitching their stuff like any other commodity, isn't heroin processed from poppies(pretty sure thats a plant)correct
> 
> Sorry gone off on one a little, but you know what i'm saying.


yep I know what you're saying.. and prior to about 1904, coke-a-cola was called that as it had COCAINE in it instead of caffeine:

Pemberton called for five ounces of coca leaf per gallon of syrup, a significant dose; in 1891, Candler claimed his formula (altered extensively from Pemberton's original) contained only a tenth of this amount. Coca-Cola did once contain an estimated nine milligrams of cocaine per glass, but in 1903 it was removed.[31] Coca-Cola still contains coca flavoring.

After 1904, instead of using fresh leaves, Coca-Cola started using "spent" leaves - the leftovers of the cocaine-extraction process with cocaine trace levels left over at a molecular level.[32] To this day, Coca-Cola uses as an ingredient a cocaine-free coca leaf extract prepared at a Stepan Company plant in Maywood, New Jersey.

In the United States, Stepan Company is the only manufacturing plant authorized by the Federal Government to import and process the coca plant,[33] which it obtains mainly from Peru and, to a lesser extent, Bolivia. Besides producing the coca flavoring agent for Coca-Cola, Stepan Company extracts cocaine from the coca leaves, which it sells to Mallinckrodt, a St. Louis, Missouri pharmaceutical manufacturer that is the only company in the United States licensed to purify cocaine for medicinal use.[34

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola#Coca_.E2.80.94_cocaine

I call a spade a spade, so if you use a substance for "drug like" effects, its a drug whether categorised as such or not.. after all in australia they have classed CJC-1295 (a peptide) the same as growth hormone, and banned it.

Pro-Hormones have been legal in the UK, and where in the USA until recently- its all just politics.

if I have a headache, I take aspirin tabs- Of course I could suck/chew on white willow bark (what aspririn was first derived from) but I think i would have a saw jaw from the kilos i'd need to chew on...


----------



## K1eran

Jodi said:


> I didnt post an exact breakdown but explained a little...
> 
> I try to keep it varied...
> 
> Anyway its usually something like..
> 
> 7am - oats/porridge
> 
> 10am - banana or special k bar
> 
> 1pm - chicken or tuna sandwiches with wholemeal bread (sometimes a pasta/salad/rice dish instead) tangerine/pineapple/mango/melon, activia yoghurt or muller light, sometimes a pack of lower fat/cal crisps like quavers..
> 
> 4pm - half a sandwich on the way to college on some days or an apple or something just to keep me going..
> 
> 7pm (or 9pm on college days) - chicken/pork/beef or some other
> 
> meat, usually with veg and/or rice, sometimes with a sauce..
> 
> on training days il sometimes have a 90+ protein shake an hour or so before bed.. and i love celery with low fat cottage cheese for snacks...


WTF you eat more than me lol


----------



## ausbuilt

my girl eats more than that.. but she is 5'8" and 65kg... and trains hard..


----------



## Swanny

Anyone bought the ECA stack from here ? http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=22

Cant see the ingredients on the site, not sure if its legit ephedrine


----------



## Hampy71

Swanny said:


> Anyone bought the ECA stack from here ? http://melanotanmagic.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=22
> 
> Cant see the ingredients on the site, not sure if its legit ephedrine


Can't go wrong with this one IMO


----------



## Swanny

Hampy71 said:


> Can't go wrong with this one IMO
> 
> View attachment 54935


Yeah think i might head to boots in a bit and get started on that. Do you ever get questioned about buying Chest Eze from the staff at boots ?

What dosage do you take a day ?


----------



## Hampy71

Swanny said:


> Yeah think i might head to boots in a bit and get started on that. Do you ever get questioned about buying Chest Eze from the staff at boots ?
> 
> What dosage do you take a day ?


My mrs got these for me and they only asked if they were for her. I usually go to sainsbury for them and they never ask anything, they even let me have two packs at a time but I don't take the p1ss and buy every week from there. I can only take one chest eze with two pro plus and one 75mg aspirin. Some people take two chest eze but I think that is too much for me. I'm buzzing my t1ts off from one!!


----------



## Swanny

Hampy71 said:


> My mrs got these for me and they only asked if they were for her. I usually go to sainsbury for them and they never ask anything, they even let me have two packs at a time but I don't take the p1ss and buy every week from there. I can only take one chest eze with two pro plus and one 75mg aspirin. Some people take two chest eze but I think that is too much for me. I'm buzzing my t1ts off from one!!


Right been to Asda got 9 Chest eze £1.85 result ! pack of pro plus and some 75mg Asprin.

Whats the best way of taking them ? Im thinking of doing 1 chest eze, 1 pro plus and a asprin 3 times a day.

Is it best to do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off ?

Do you need to taper them up and down ?


----------



## Hampy71

Swanny said:


> Right been to Asda got 9 Chest eze £1.85 result ! pack of pro plus and some 75mg Asprin.
> 
> Whats the best way of taking them ? Im thinking of doing 1 chest eze, 1 pro plus and a asprin 3 times a day.
> 
> Is it best to do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off ?
> 
> Do you need to taper them up and down ?


Yes I would start with one of each and see how you feel. There is some caffeine in chest eze anyway so one pro plus should be enough. I only take twice a day but if you feel ok with them I can't see why not three times. Yes I'm doing two weeks on two weeks off.


----------



## kernowgee

Wow this site could do with more threads like this, full of helpful info. Credit guys, keep it rolling.


----------



## Hampy71

Hampy71 said:


> Yes I would start with one of each and see how you feel. There is some caffeine in chest eze anyway so one pro plus should be enough. I only take twice a day but if you feel ok with them I can't see why not three times. Yes I'm doing two weeks on two weeks off.


Don't take after around 3pm if you plan on sleeping that night by the way!!


----------



## glennb1980

Made this mistake with zenadrine t5's, had one in the morning and one at 5pm just before training was absolutely off my tits during training and had no kip that night.


----------



## Hampy71

glennb1980 said:


> Made this mistake with zenadrine t5's, had one in the morning and one at 5pm just before training was absolutely off my tits during training and had no kip that night.


Hey mate a couple weeks ago I got some powdered caffeine and powdered green tea extract as pre workout boost and fat burn. I misread 100mg dosage of caffeine and dropped a full gram!!! Fvck me I thought I was dying, didn't sleep for two days!!! 


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory

Hampy71 said:


> Hey mate a couple weeks ago I got some powdered caffeine and powdered green tea extract as pre workout boost and fat burn. I misread 100mg dosage of caffeine and dropped a full gram!!! Fvck me I thought I was dying, didn't sleep for two days!!! 


Dangerous stuff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11645363

Should only be sold as tabs in my opinion.


----------



## Hampy71

NoGutsNoGlory said:


> Dangerous stuff.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11645363
> 
> Should only be sold as tabs in my opinion.


It should definitely carry a warning. How many people actually know how dangerous a caffeine overdose can be? I certainly didn't!!


----------



## Pictor

ausbuilt said:


> do either the pre-made stack or chest-eze/aspirin before cardio- I think the ECA pre-cardio will kick your cardio harder, then after cardio take the yohimbine stack. then the 2nd ECA in the afternoon...
> 
> ketotifen, take in the morning (one tab, from the link I provided), enalapril (take 20mg tab) can make some people drowsy, so for those i'd say take it at night, however, with all the stimulants you're taking, prob no big deal to take it in the morning too...
> 
> I use a wrist cuff BP monitor:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-R3-Wrist-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B000VD6UOG
> 
> and I do cardio with:
> 
> http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/polar_ft80_heart_rate_monitor.html
> 
> I also use it to time my rest intervals with weights, however, any HR monitor is fine, just so long as you do your fasted cardio for 22-30min at 85% of your HR...


Ausbuilt... Just to re-cap... So i can take one of the fat burning stacks, either the Pre-made yohimbine stack or ECA stack as well as x1 Enalapril 20mg and x1 Asthafen (Ketotifen Fumarate) 1mg all at the same time in one go in the morning! but if it makes me drowsy than take the x1 Enalapril 20mg in the evening/before bed instead?! Have i got that right?!

Sorry for ALL the questions mate, but you do know your stuff and im just trying learn from you!

Thanks again!


----------



## Hampy71

big ste said:


> Ausbuilt... Just to re-cap... So i can take one of the fat burning stacks, either the Pre-made yohimbine stack or ECA stack as well as x1 Enalapril 20mg and x1 Asthafen (Ketotifen Fumarate) 1mg all at the same time in one go in the morning! but if it makes me drowsy than take the x1 Enalapril 20mg in the evening/before bed instead?! Have i got that right?!
> 
> Sorry for ALL the questions mate, but you do know your stuff and im just trying learn from you!
> 
> Thanks again!


X2


----------



## Jodi

ausbuilt said:


> my girl eats more than that.. but she is 5'8" and 65kg... and trains hard..


I'm always hungry even though most people do say i eat alot.. I'm 5ft2 and 56kg (was 57 until last week) and i train quite hard, 3 gym days per week doin about 30 mins cardio then train with weights for an hour and then if I've still got energy i will do a bit more cardio.. And i do a high intensity dance/combat class for an hour and half once a week. Plus I walk for about 40mins every day..

And the person who says i eat more than them... I've got a big appetite lol  I eat more than most men i know... I think i'm also going to start snacking on nuts 

Does anyone have any other advice for me? (that doesnt mean giving up my life, spending a fortune etc) lol 

Also, I've just worked out my BMI etc...

Body Mass Index: 22.4 kg/m2

Waist-to-Height ratio: 0.45

Percent Body Fat: 23.0%

Lean Body Mass: 43.1 kg

does this seem normal? And how can i make improvements and what is best for fat burning?

I do alot of uphill speedwalking which i beleive is good for fat burning?


----------



## Pictor

Ok here's my self made ECA stack... x1 chestEze, x2 Pro plus and x1 75mg Aspirin. Does this sound ok?!

Ive just had a email off United Pharmacies and they havent got any Enalapril or Asthafen in stock and there not expecting any for a few weeks! So i will have to cycle 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.


----------



## thecoms

When u start snacking on nuts let us know lol

Seriously why does everyone become so pious , I say if something can give u an edge use it. Bet that previous girl uses makeup , thats cheating , its not natural lol Take the good advise given and make an informed choice, thats what it boils down to , personal choices.

Interested in the future with the T3/clen combo, any more info on that ?

Thanks


----------



## Pictor

thecoms said:


> When u start snacking on nuts let us know lol
> 
> Seriously why does everyone become so pious , I say if something can give u an edge use it. Bet that previous girl uses makeup , thats cheating , its not natural lol Take the good advise given and make an informed choice, thats what it boils down to , personal choices.
> 
> Interested in the future with the T3/clen combo, any more info on that ?
> 
> Thanks


x2

Im researching the T3/clen combo at the moment... Im thinkin of using Chinese Clen though!


----------



## Jodi

thecoms said:


> When u start snacking on nuts let us know lol
> 
> Seriously why does everyone become so pious , I say if something can give u an edge use it. Bet that previous girl uses makeup , thats cheating , its not natural lol Take the good advise given and make an informed choice, thats what it boils down to , personal choices.
> 
> Interested in the future with the T3/clen combo, any more info on that ?
> 
> Thanks


well said about the makeup thing! I'm sick of people criticizing rather than helping lol

thank you!


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## SteamRod

you do alot of training. Its not a bad thing but when your fatloss slows you will have little place to go other than drop more from your diet/up supps.

good luck either way. ECA is good for what is is.


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## Jodi

Yeah i think i'm gonna carry on as i am for now, then when it slows down i'm thinking of trying a whey protein as a meal replacer?


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## SteamRod

If 30g of protein is less calories than the meal it is replacing then that will be fine. If you can get some healthy fats in with the shake and stay within your calories for the day that would be the best.

diets work as a whole but no need to over complicate it when it is not needed. Generally if you are burning more calories than you are eating then you should still be loosing weight. just remember if you loose a lb of fat then the next week your diet needs to be 3500 cals lighter the next week or 70 calories a day less to keep loosing at the same rate.


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## kernowgee

NoGutsNoGlory said:


> Dangerous stuff.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-11645363
> 
> Should only be sold as tabs in my opinion.


 The guy was a plonker had over 100 times the recommend amount and energy drinks, showing off in front of girls, more people have died from drinking excessive water, you going to ban Water?


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## bowen86

seriously epic thread loads of info, goes slightly off topic and bitchy but hey. kudos to ausbuilt, you know your stuff.


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## Hera

I use Lean System 7 tablets (I'd personally steer clear of EC/ECA). I take them about 30 to 60 mins before a cardio workout and I notice the difference; I get incredibly hot. I recommend eating something with them because if I don't I get incredib;y nauseous. I think that I can experience the odd withdrawal symptom if I stop taking them e.g. irritability, but I put that down to caffeine withrawal.

With regards to Quavers, Specail K bars and other reduced fat products - I'd steer clear. Less fat usually means more sugar so you'll get a quick rush of eneregy and then a crash which can cause you to want to eat again. I also find them incredibly unfilling, making me want to eat again shortly after. I often have homemade soup for lunch (sometime with a whole grain bread roll if it'll be some time til I'l eat again) and that really fills me up. Drinking lots of water helps too.

Did you mention that you also drink protein shakes? If so, in my opinion I don't think that is necessary if your training is currently cardio (as opposed to weight training).


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## Hera

Jodi said:


> Yeah i think i'm gonna carry on as i am for now, then when it slows down i'm thinking of trying a whey protein as a meal replacer?


Personally I think that whey protein should be used in addition and not as a replacement.


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## SteamRod

Girl I used to know rated lean system 7 as well.

then I got her some efedrin arsan 50mg.


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## barrettmma1436114759

hendrix said:


> Chances are will not be real eca, well not ephedrinre anyway. I would go with the chest-eze and asprin sugestion above, would be very effective. Just dont tell the chemist its for weight loss purposes


hi.where u from in stoke, i'm from stoke to


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## Jodi

I only eat the quavers etc cos its hard to eat decent food at work cos they dont have a proper kitchen, just a microwave lol and the protein shakes are occasional as i also do light weight training  thanks for your help  you got any more tips? I drink a lot of water all day.. It will be alot easier for me to diet properly when its warmer cos i drink a lot of tea to warm me up lol

oh and Katy you just said that you thought i shouldnt be using protein but then when i said i was thing of using it as a meal replacer, you thought i should be using it additionally rather than instead of meals.. Which is what i was doing but you disagreed with at first? Lol


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## Jodi

Advice still needed lol


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## Grantewhite

i will admit i havent read all the way through but diet pills will only do so much shear hard work and good food choices will make all the difference (from my own personal experiance). cheers, grant


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## Hera

Jodi said:


> I only eat the quavers etc cos its hard to eat decent food at work cos they dont have a proper kitchen, just a microwave lol and the protein shakes are occasional as i also do light weight training  thanks for your help  you got any more tips? I drink a lot of water all day.. It will be alot easier for me to diet properly when its warmer cos i drink a lot of tea to warm me up lol
> 
> oh and Katy you just said that you thought i shouldnt be using protein but then when i said i was thing of using it as a meal replacer, you thought i should be using it additionally rather than instead of meals.. Which is what i was doing but you disagreed with at first? Lol


Without going through all previous posts I think that what I probably meant was that protein shakes are designed to be supplements and not meal replacements and therefore, if you are going to drink them I would think that it best to have them in addition to a healthy diet and not to replace a meal.

Everyone has different opinions about the use of protein shakes. I personally don't have them because for my routine I feel that I get enough protein from my diet and therefore having protein shakes would just increase my daily calorie intake.


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## bighead1985

Katy said:


> Without going through all previous posts I think that what I probably meant was that protein shakes are designed to be supplements and not meal replacements and therefore, if you are going to drink them I would think that it best to have them in addition to a healthy diet and not to replace a meal.


Yeah, Protein 90+ is not a meal replacement but it is a good addition to a healthy diet.


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## bighead1985

ausbuilt said:


> do either the pre-made stack or chest-eze/aspirin before cardio- I think the ECA pre-cardio will kick your cardio harder, then after cardio take the yohimbine stack. then the 2nd ECA in the afternoon...
> 
> ketotifen, take in the morning (one tab, from the link I provided), enalapril (take 20mg tab) can make some people drowsy, so for those i'd say take it at night, however, with all the stimulants you're taking, prob no big deal to take it in the morning too...
> 
> I use a wrist cuff BP monitor:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-R3-Wrist-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B000VD6UOG
> 
> and I do cardio with:
> 
> http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/polar_ft80_heart_rate_monitor.html
> 
> I also use it to time my rest intervals with weights, however, any HR monitor is fine, just so long as you do your fasted cardio for 22-30min at 85% of your HR...


Knowledge is the bomb


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## ausbuilt

big ste said:


> Ausbuilt... Just to re-cap... So i can take one of the fat burning stacks, either the Pre-made yohimbine stack or ECA stack as well as x1 Enalapril 20mg and x1 Asthafen (Ketotifen Fumarate) 1mg all at the same time in one go in the morning! but if it makes me drowsy than take the x1 Enalapril 20mg in the evening/before bed instead?! Have i got that right?!
> 
> Sorry for ALL the questions mate, but you do know your stuff and im just trying learn from you!
> 
> Thanks again!


sorry missed this!

Some (most?) get drowsy with Ketotifen; some get drowsy with enalapril, so they can be taken before bed.

I find i'm fine with ketotifen, mainly as I'm taking it with clen or eca.. so i don't feel drowsy because of the stimulants.. try in the morning, if drowsy, then take before bed...

You're half right, you're more likely to get a bit sleepy from the anti-histamine.. but some do from the enalapril as well..


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## batch

ive just orderd 18 chest eze tablets a bottel of asprin and a box of pro plus for 15 quid if i take 1 chest eze a asprin and a pro plus every morning and then then the same at about 3pm (i train at 4) with a decent diet this will be fine to help me lose a bit more weight?


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## Pictor

What most do including myself is stack-

x1 chestEze

x1 75mg aspirin

x3 pro plus

You can take the stack up to x3 times per day! x1 up on waking, leave 4 hours between doses and leave at lease 5 hours between last dose and going bed because you might not sleep!


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## ShellieBells

I started taking Forza T5 Body Deluxe last week and unfortunately it made my skin breakout, I have pimples on my face and chest, which I never get. I tried to exchange them with Forza direct but once the bottle is open they can't do anything.

By the way, the pills did not work and only made me hungry.


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## Biz22

;-)


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