# Drwae getting massive



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

As many of you know I have been on the path to henchness for the past year and a half. However its been a long, rocky path for me, getting lost on the way in the lands of not training properly and eating pizzas and burgers and Chinese takeaway s**t.

I'm determined this time to become a proper unit, I'm sick of being small and fat. Currently people in social settings ask me if I go to the gym but when Im actually in the gym, im one of the smallest guys who actually lifts weights.

Starting weight 82-83kg, going to be eating 3000 calories+ per day.

I've made some changes to my diet:

Junk food (usually takeaway such as pizza, chinese, burger,chips&milkshake, Indian) - 1x a week max down from 3x+ a week

Swap white rice for brown rice

Swap white bread for brown bread, but try to limit it. Currently I have two boiled eggs and two slices of toast for breakfast and avoid bread the rest of the day

Eat more lean meats and eggs - got a vegetarian mrs and I don't think ive been getting enough protein

Eatlean protein cheese instead of regular cheddar

Eat more potatoes and sweet potatoes instead of other carbs such as pasta

Going to the gym 6x a week on a split routine:

Abs extras

Landmine 180s 3x10

Hanging leg raises 3x8

Chest/tris

Bench 3x8

Incline db bench 3x10

Chest press 4x8

Tricep pushdown rope 3x8

Back/bis

Deadlift 3x8

Barbell row 3x10

Hammer grip pull ups 3x5

Lat pulldown 3x8

Ez curls 4x8

Shoulders

Standing barbell press 3x8

Arnold press 3x8

Lateral raise 3x10 superset

Cable face pull 3x10

Shoulder press 3x12

Legs

Squat 3x8

Front squat 3x8

Leg press 3x8

Leg curl 3x8

Leg press calf raise 3x15


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

In

6 days a week seems a bit much though, can easily get all that in in 5 days, or even 4, probably burn yourself out only having 1 day off a week


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

In... agree with above, rest days are just as important


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

TERBO said:


> In... agree with above, rest days are just as important


 Not if your on 4 or 5 gram of gear


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

this white rice brown rice stuff is irrelevant in terms of gains

just make sure you are consistently gaining weight with 1g protein per lb body weight, 15-30% of your calories from fats and the rest carbs with minimal sugar

same with your training, just aim to keep the total tonnage going up as frequently as you can, more reps or more weight for the same reps

just know even with gear when you actually look over a year of what lean body mass youve gained its not as much as you might think you have when youre on cycle all puffed up and full of glycogen retention

this is just about improving and increasing things year after year


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Good luck :thumbup1:


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Goodluck boyo. Same split as me :thumbup1:


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

AestheticManlet said:


> Goodluck boyo. Same split as me :thumbup1:


 Your time is up ab-boy, we have a new Sheriff in town :lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Cypionate said:


> Your time is up ab-boy, we have a new Sheriff in town :lol:


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Strength from the combination of sdrol and adrol is unreal. just threw extra 10kg on the bar for deadlifts and still completed my 3x8. horrible back pumps and nausea for the rest of the work out though. treating myself to a post workout chinese as its friday night and i've probably got a s**t night at work ahead of me


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

drwae said:


> treating myself to a post workout chinese as its friday night and i've probably got a s**t night at work ahead of me


 Clean eating going well then mate... must of been a hard 5 days lol


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

TERBO said:


> Clean eating going well then mate... must of been a hard 5 days lol


 Kid only weighs 82kg, thread says "getting massive"

needs them cals man why would anyone trying to get massive try and eat clean all the tine?


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

You volume on chest day is less than any other day? I'd rather do a fly movement instead of 3 presses personally.


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

Matt6210 said:


> Kid only weighs 82kg, thread says "getting massive"
> 
> needs them cals man why would anyone trying to get massive try and eat clean all the tine?


 I was only messing, we all love a cheat day... I'm down to 6 a week


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

TERBO said:


> I was only messing, we all love a cheat day... I'm down to 6 a week


 Calories are calories mate fu**ing get um down


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

dtmiscool said:


> You volume on chest day is less than any other day? I'd rather do a fly movement instead of 3 presses personally.


 I would like to do that cable flys exercise but I don't know how to do it properly


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> I would like to do that cable flys exercise but I don't know how to do it properly


 Youtube


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> I would like to do that cable flys exercise but I don't know how to do it properly


 You don't know how to do a cable fly yet you regularly give out steroid advice to people?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> I would like to do that cable flys exercise but I don't know how to do it properly


 you never hugged anyone? (forcefully)


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> you never hugged anyone? (forcefully)


 I'll have to give it a go next time i do chest



Matt6210 said:


> You don't know how to do a cable fly yet you regularly give out steroid advice to people?


 completely different things. you can put scaffolding up but you can't design a building plans?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> I'll have to give it a go next time i do chest
> 
> completely different things. you can put scaffolding up but you can't design a building plans?


 So You think someome that's training hasn't even progressed enough to doing a cable fly? Should be useing steroids? Never mind giving ppl advice how to use steroids.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

swole troll said:


> you never hugged anyone? (forcefully)


 Not a hug, imagine putting your arms around a big tree trunk.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> So You think someome that's training hasn't even progressed enough to doing a cable fly? Should be useing steroids? Never mind giving ppl advice how to use steroids.


 Just never had any reason to learn to do the exercise


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> I'll have to give it a go next time i do chest
> 
> completely different things. you can put scaffolding up but you can't design a building plans?


 People should have a good understanding on training even before thinking about useing juice, a cable fly is a pretty bog standard basic exercise.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Just never had any reason to learn to do the exercise


 Learn to do? Even someone that had a very simple basic understanding on training but had never seen a cable cross over before would be able to work it out.

youve ran tren, deca, dnp, insulin, hgh every oral under the sun...

and you don't no how to preform a cable fly?


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Learn to do? Even someone that had a very simple basic understanding on training but had never seen a cable cross over before would be able to work it out.
> 
> *youve ran tren, deca, dnp, insulin, hgh every oral under the sun... *
> 
> *and you don't no how to preform a cable fly?*


 Ffs, I actually can't believe what I'm reading, all the gear and no idea


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Learn to do? Even someone that had a very simple basic understanding on training but had never seen a cable cross over before would be able to work it out.
> 
> youve ran tren, deca, dnp, insulin, hgh every oral under the sun...
> 
> and you don't no how to preform a cable fly?


 Don't know, I've never tried to do one. Never had a place in any of my routines


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> Don't know, I've never tried to do one. Never had a place in any of my routines


 Your routines must be s**t then


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Don't know, I've never tried to do one. Never had a place in any of my routines


 But your a bodybuilder that's progressed to such levels of needing dnp, insulin, growth hormone.... but you don't even know how to do the most basic of exercises.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

ILLBehaviour said:


> Your routines must be s**t then


 I've posted about my routines on this forum for over a year and today is the first time someone suggested that i should do a fly exercise instead of just presses. I'd say most routines don't include flys


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> I've posted about my routines on this forum for over a year and today is the first time someone suggested that i should do a fly exercise instead of just presses. I'd say most routines don't include flys


 Most bodybuilding routines don't include flys?


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## CG88 (Jun 4, 2015)

In :lol:


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> I've posted about my routines on this forum for over a year and today is the first time someone suggested that i should do a fly exercise instead of just presses. I'd say most routines don't include flys


 Flies are a good chest exercise, don't see any reason not to include them in a bb routine


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

ILLBehaviour said:


> Flies are a good chest exercise, don't see any reason not to include them in a bb routine


 They'll be included from now on


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> They'll be included from now on


 You do dumbbell flys?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> You do dumbbell flys?


 No, just dumbbell presses


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> No, just dumbbell presses


 I've never heard anything like it mate, but a dumbbell fly and a cable fly in every chest session, you train bro split?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> I've never heard anything like it mate, but a dumbbell fly and a cable fly in every chest session, you train bro split?


 No no I do dumbbell chest presses not flys. so I'm just going to add cable flys to that routine since chest day normally takes under an hour anyway. cable flys will be my only fly exercise


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> No no I do dumbbell chest presses not flys. so I'm just going to add cable flys to that routine since chest day normally takes under an hour anyway. cable flys will be my only fly exercise


 Do a dumbbell incline fly it's hitting completely different part of the muscle to a press mate


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Do a dumbbell incline fly it's hitting completely different part of the muscle to a press mate


 Will give it a go cheers


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Will give it a go cheers


 Do 2 presses an incline and a flat (Vary both between bar and dumbbell) and 2 flys an incline dumbbell fly and you got lots of varieties on cables, change it up each week which order you do them in, pec dec aswel if you have one.

watch some videos on how to fly properly, most people don't and half press it, don't worry about weight on fly just get the movement right and get a good squeeze and get the mind to muscle working properly.


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## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

As Matt was correctly saying flies have their place. Don't by into any ke saying pre exhaust woth flies blah blah it doesn't work. Compound press movements, I prefer an incline then a flat, then a fly movement


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

drwae said:


> I've posted about my routines on this forum for over a year and today is the first time someone suggested that i should do a fly exercise instead of just presses. I'd say most routines don't include flys


 That someone has a name you cheeky c*nt :lol:

They're definitely a worthy addition. Easiest way to try them on cables would probably be on the highest notch, pull both cable down, elbow slightly bent and bring together in front of you.

Like this: (yes this is me)


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

dtmiscool said:


> That someone has a name you cheeky c*nt :lol:
> 
> They're definitely a worthy addition. Easiest way to try them on cables would probably be on the highest notch, pull both cable down, elbow slightly bent and bring together in front of you.
> 
> ...


 Will give that one a go next time in the gym


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Have added incline dumbbell flys and high cable crossovers into my routine, the pump from the cable one is unbelievable


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> Have added incline dumbbell flys and high cable crossovers into my routine, the pump from the cable one is unbelievable


 Prefer cables and pec fly machine over dumbbells tbh, constant tension and better ROM .

Providing your doing fly's with proper form you should see some decent development now you've added them in.


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

drwae said:


> Have added incline dumbbell flys and high cable crossovers into my routine, the pump from the cable one is unbelievable


 Rotate between cable fly variations (seated, standing, laying etc), pec dec and dumbbell fly. To be honest dumbbell fly is a pretty s**t exercise imo, you'll do better on just pec dec and cables. I'd recommend doing the same for your other days and have a few different versions of each session.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

S_C said:


> Rotate between cable fly variations (seated, standing, laying etc), pec dec and dumbbell fly. To be honest dumbbell fly is a pretty s**t exercise imo, you'll do better on just pec dec and cables. I'd recommend doing the same for your other days and have a few different versions of each session.


 Is a pec deck a machine? we only have a chest press machine


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> Is a pec deck a machine?


 Do they not do Google in Scotland?


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

drwae said:


> Is a pec deck a machine? we only have a chest press machine


 Yes I've never seen a gym without one even in small hotel gyms. Different variations of cable fly would do if not.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

S_C said:


> Yes I've never seen a gym without one even in small hotel gyms


 we've only got one machine for each muscle/group  about 6 in total


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

drwae said:


> we've only got one machine for each muscle/group  about 6 in total


 Cables will do if not. You still have standing, laying and seated if you can adjust the pulley height.

Flyes are the least of your worries though, can you rotate exercises on your other days? Easy way to hit a brick wall doing the same version of each session week in, week out.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

S_C said:


> Cables will do if not. You still have standing, laying and seated if you can adjust the pulley height.
> 
> Flyes are the least of your worries though, can you rotate exercises on your other days? Easy way to hit a brick wall doing the same version of each session week in, week out.


 yep, will have a look at some different exercises. do you mean simple changes like one week arnold presses another week a standard dumbbell press?


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

drwae said:


> yep, will have a look at some different exercises. do you mean simple changes like one week arnold presses another week a standard dumbbell press?


 Yeah exactly. I do PPL so train everything twice a week over 8 days so it's even more important probably. I have 4 versions of each session. 2 of each session is probably fine if you're hitting everything once a week.

So for example your chest session at the moment is this

Bench 3x8 *(barbell?)*

Incline db bench 3x10

Chest press 4x8

Tricep pushdown rope 3x8

Other versions of it could be

1. Flat db bench / smith / chest press / decline?

2. Incline smith press / incline barbell /

3. Seated cable fly / laying fly / standing

4. Tricep dips / close grip press / v bar pushdown

Just small changes but keeps you getting strong across the board as well as not just prioritizing 1 exercise that comes first every session


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

S_C said:


> Yeah exactly. I do PPL so train everything twice a week over 8 days so it's even more important probably. I have 4 versions of each session. 2 of each session is probably fine if you're hitting everything once a week.
> 
> So for example your chest session at the moment is this
> 
> ...


 PPL's a fad and will pass, bodybuilders used bro split for 80+ years.... if it ain't broke why fix it.

to me PPL only useful to someone wants to keep healthy and and stay "in shape" want to add serious size bro split all the way.

in b4 some one posts pics of some massive c**t that trains PPL


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

Matt6210 said:


> PPL's a fad and will pass, bodybuilders used bro split for 80+ years.... if it ain't broke why fix it.
> 
> to me PPL only useful to someone wants to keep healthy and and stay "in shape" want to add serious size bro split all the way.
> 
> in b4 some one posts pics of some massive c**t that trains PPL


 I've had good results using the setup and it suits my schedule better.

I agree but it's not much different either, only difference really is that shoulder work is put with chest/triceps on push day. Well front/side delt work on push day and rear delts on pull.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

S_C said:


> I've had good results using the setup and it suits my schedule better.
> 
> I agree but it's not much different either, only difference really is that shoulder work is put with chest/triceps on push day. Well front/side delt work on push day and rear delts on pull.


 Yea each to there own bud, i Do 5 or 6 exercises on delts and rear delts then 2 on traps couldn't imagine just doing 2 or whatever it is.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Yea each to there own bud, i Do 5 or 6 exercises on delts and rear delts then 2 on traps couldn't imagine just doing 2 or whatever it is.


 Do you think i need to add some direct traps work?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Do you think i need to add some direct traps work?


 Why wouldn't you train your traps?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Why wouldn't you train your traps?


 Have heard that deadlifts train traps enough that you dont need to target them directly


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Have heard that deadlifts train traps enough that you dont need to target them directly


 Not in my opinion I like training traps


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

drwae said:


> I've posted about my routines on this forum for over a year and today is the first time someone suggested that i should do a fly exercise instead of just presses. I'd say most routines don't include flys


 Action of pec major is movement across the chest. The one exercise thet replicates the action of pec major is flyes (movement across the chest). Also performs shoulder adduction & internal rotation of humerus.

Go and do some reading on exercises and the muscles it uses to perform said exercises. Or, download an anatomy app such as "bodyworks muscles". It gives you the relevant info you need.

Can you see why people give you a hard time when you post that you're using slin, growth, dnp, shitloads of orals and high doses of oils while eating a shat diet and then say you don't utilise flyes in your routine? Plus, eating protein cheese because your girlfriend is vegetarian?!?! It's not her fault. Fcuk!

You need to read, learn and understand about progressive overload and adaptation. You need to educate yourself on rep ranges and sets; what's the difference and what most suits your goals. You need to understand why rest days are more important than anything as it gives the immune system the rest it needs. You need to understand about correct nutrition.

Theres enough dudes & Ladies on here who pass their knowledge on. Go to the nutrition section for food ideas. Stop stuffing yourself with gear expecting to grow, dude.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

By the way @drwae I'm in for this as I am genuinely interested & hope you gain and meet your goals through bb.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

PSevens2017 said:


> By the way @drwae I'm in for this as I am genuinely interested & hope you gain and meet your goals through bb.


 He will be smaller now than he would of been if he stayed natural and just learnt how to train properly, he won't of even kept any noobie gains.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> He will be smaller now than he would of been if he stayed natural and just learnt how to train properly, he won't of even kept any noobie gains.


 Mate, as long as the more experienced lifters on here keep giving him little nuggets of training wisdom whether nutrition or exercise related, hopefully the Dr will take it on board and make use of it


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Matt6210 said:


> Yea each to there own bud, i Do 5 or 6 exercises on delts and rear delts then 2 on traps couldn't imagine just doing 2 or whatever it is.


 Agreed. My shoulders didn't develop on PPL or HST full body workout. They were a real weak point for me. Once I gave shoulders & traps their own day on a Bro Split, they started to grow, especially lateral and rear delts. My back day focuses on lats, rhomboids, erector spine

I do:

Shoulder press (DB, Smith or Machine - alternative every 10-12 weeks or so)

One arm standing dumbbell press (see WSM)

Lateral Delt Raises (dumbbells or cable)

Rear Dumbell Delt Raises

Face Pulls or Rear Cable Fly

Shrugs

Probably better ways to do it. Might be overkill. But it's working for me right now.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Just to throw in my 2p's worth, the perfect chest day should consist of a heavy flat pressing exercise; a moderate-heavy incline press; and both flat/decline flyes (this includes crossovers) and incline flyes for high reps.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

nWo said:


> Just to throw in my 2p's worth, the perfect chest day should consist of a heavy flat pressing exercise; a moderate-heavy incline press; and both flat/decline flyes (this includes crossovers) and incline flyes for high reps.


 Incline grows your chest more than flat, so why heavy flat? And not so incline?

vary between the two which you do first, and go as heavy as you can on both.


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Matt6210 said:


> Incline grows your chest more than flat, so why heavy flat? And not so incline?
> 
> vary between the two which you do first, and go as heavy as you can on both.


 Many studies have been done showing emg activity during different types of pressing. The decline activates the most fibres in the chest and surprisingly activates more fibres in the upper chest than inline.

While there are no "upper" and "lower" chest muscles, its a physiomechanical matter of course that different exercise and working angles will stress ascending, descending and lateral fibers to a different degree. So, while it may be impossible to isolate certain fiber strands, it is well possible to shift the main workload from one strand to the other by selecting appropriate exercises.





Figure 2: EMG activation of different areas of the chest muscle (cf. numbers in image 2) by the bench press exercise at different inclines (data adapted from Boeckh-Behrens & Buskies. 2000)


At first, it may look strange that the inverse(=decline) bench press exhibits the greatest EMG activity not only for the lower chest (as bro-science) would have it, but also for the upper chest. If you do however remind yourself that *EMG activity corresponds to the number of motor neurons firing in the area under the electrode*, than it is quite obvious that the larger load the subjects were able to handle on the inverse(=decline) bench press resulted in increased motor neuron activation and thus greater EMG values.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

boutye911 said:


> Many studies have been done showing emg activity during different types of pressing. The decline activates the most fibres in the chest and surprisingly activates more fibres in the upper chest than inline.
> 
> While there are no "upper" and "lower" chest muscles, its a physiomechanical matter of course that different exercise and working angles will stress ascending, descending and lateral fibers to a different degree. So, while it may be impossible to isolate certain fiber strands, it is well possible to shift the main workload from one strand to the other by selecting appropriate exercises.
> 
> ...


 Don't like taking decline heavy tho, seems to hurt my elbows for some reason.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Incline grows your chest more than flat, so why heavy flat? And not so incline?
> 
> vary between the two which you do first, and go as heavy as you can on both.


 Can't add too much to what @boutye911 said above, though I'll also chip in with this study that shows that while incline does indeed exhibit the most activation of the clavicular head (upper chest), flat benching activates the sternocostal head (lower chest) the most. Given that the sternal head makes up the majority of the pec (the clavicular head is a pretty small muscle), the flat bench overall will add the most mass and you could build a big set of pecs without ever doing a flat bench, particularly if you also do overhead pressing (ideally, though, some direct work on the clavicular head wouldn't go amiss).

There's definitely arguable benefit to starting with flat on session and incline the next, all depends on how you like to train though and I personally don't believe that swapping them around would prove to be significantly beneficial, might be worth doing incline first though if someone finds their clavicular head lacking.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Don't like taking decline heavy tho, seems to hurt my elbows for some reason.


 Wouldn't worry about that mate - this study suggests that flat bench strength is correlated with overall pec size :thumbup1: I'd say if you had to pick just one chest exercise it should be the flat bench, but generally I believe in mostly using the flat bench as a progressive overload tool - go heavy on that at the start of your workout, get stronger on it over time, and once it's done you can move onto your incline presses, flyes and all that stuff focusing on higher reps, stimulation and all that stuff that lends itself to hypertrophy.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

nWo said:


> Can't add too much to what @boutye911 said above, though I'll also chip in with this study that shows that while incline does indeed exhibit the most activation of the clavicular head (upper chest), flat benching activates the sternocostal head (lower chest) the most. Given that the sternal head makes up the majority of the pec (the clavicular head is a pretty small muscle), the flat bench overall will add the most mass and you could build a big set of pecs without ever doing a flat bench, particularly if you also do overhead pressing (ideally, though, some direct work on the clavicular head wouldn't go amiss).
> 
> There's definitely arguable benefit to starting with flat on session and incline the next, all depends on how you like to train though and I personally don't believe that swapping them around would prove to be significantly beneficial, might be worth doing incline first though if someone finds their clavicular head lacking.


 Swap them round from week to week get best of both worlds surely?

I like to change exercises round all the time anyway, you leave them in same order your fresh on certain things and fatigued on the same exercise week in week out.

i sometimes like to pre exhaust especially on shoulders, do all isolation movements first then finish on a press.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Swap them round from week to week get best of both worlds surely?
> 
> I like to change exercises round all the time anyway, you leave them in same order your fresh on certain things and fatigued on the same exercise week in week out.
> 
> i sometimes like to pre exhaust especially on shoulders, do all isolation movements first then finish on a press.


 Depends on your preferences I suppose, as I said though I don't think the benefit would be significant. As I pointed out in the second reply also, your pec strength is generally correlated with your pec size - if you focus on improving your bench (which is best done by always doing it first) then you can treat all the other stuff as secondary and get maximum growth. You also have the added benefit of, once you've got your bench out of the way, being very flexible with the rest of your chest workout in regards to what order you do your exercises in, or even doing different exercises each time or changing up your rep ranges, just to keep things interesting.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

All these studies ffs, just stick to the basics and use good form, you'll grow and see development.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Is this true @drwae ??

"tren, deca.........every oral under the sun"

And you are 82kg?

You don't need the dnp, insulin, hgh.

This is a very simple game, do not overcomplicate it. If you are using the above, then eat as much as possible and lift as intensively as you can. Rest/sleep lots, keep hydration high and stay away from stims/booze/reccies/smoking etc.

It will take time but once you get to 110kg, you can worry about minutiae. The drugs will not do the hard work for you in the gym and kitchen.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Huntingground said:


> Is this true @drwae ??
> 
> "tren, deca.........every oral under the sun"
> 
> ...


 85kg this morning :thumb

I'm not taking DNP or insulin right now no

I won't use insulin again but I did use it for a brief period as I was curious about it


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> All these studies ffs, just stick to the basics and use good form, you'll grow and see development.


 That's exactly what the studies are suggesting :mellow:


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

nWo said:


> That's exactly what the studies are suggesting :mellow:


 I've just been reading some studies that suggests studies are overrated..

eat as much as you can

lift up as heavy weights as you can

take as much gear as your body can handle without sides

and be consistent.....

gainz baby


----------



## Test-e (Mar 26, 2014)

Just my 2c ; I haven't trained shoulders or traps directly in 3 years.









They're still probably my best body parts.

Train to your weaknesses whether that's ppl, bro splits, upper lower and training frequency


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Test-e said:


> Just my 2c ; I haven't trained shoulders or traps directly in 3 years.
> 
> View attachment 168615
> 
> ...


 Got good proportions mate, nothing sticks out as weakness or the best, if that's not training shoulders directly tho working well for you as I'm sure would soon would over power the rest of your physique.


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Without clogging up this thread too much just keep it simple.

Make your compounds your priority. Aim to progress on squat, bench, Ohp and deadlift. Each week aim to progress from the following. Whether that be more reps, more sets, add weight to the bar etc. Be consistent stick to it.

Dont be worrying too much about isolation work. Get the basics nailed and you will grow.

Eat in a surplus consistently. If you want to add size then your going to have to eat. Track your weight each week to make sure you are gaining. If not then increase again.

Once you have those to nailed then 500mg of test per week is an ample dose to assist your further.

There is no magic training plan. The best split is the one you enjoy and can stick to. Whether that be Upper/lower, bro split, ppl etc. Pick one and aim to progress on it.

Its really simple. Don't over complicate it. A calorie surplus, progressive overload and recovery. Get these sorted and size will follow.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

boutye911 said:


> Without clogging up this thread too much just keep it simple.
> 
> Make your compounds your priority. Aim to progress on squat, bench, Ohp and deadlift. Each week aim to progress from the following. Whether that be more reps, more sets, add weight to the bar etc. Be consistent stick to it.
> 
> ...


 I don't squat, Ohp or deadlift :lol:


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Matt6210 said:


> I don't squat, Ohp or deadlift :lol:


 Well then leg press, Dumbell press and rows.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

boutye911 said:


> Well then leg press, Dumbell press and rows.


 @drwae as you can see there is more than one way to skin a cat, everyone trains different, everyone's bodies are different, what you have to do is try different things and see what your body responds to the best, that goes for training, nutrition and ped use.

Think in the end you will take bits of pieces from different people or learnt yourself and have your own custom workouts that work best for you.

I'm not really a fan of following these strict rigid training programs, I like to listen to my body more, only I know when I've done enough and gone past failure enough, Maybe more sets/exercises one week to the next, not some printed out training program from a bloke that dont even know me.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> I've just read been reading some studies that suggests studies are overrated..
> 
> eat as much as you can
> 
> ...


 Generally good advice! Don't get me wrong re: studies, I'm generally never dogmatic about them and they often don't tell the full story - like the bigger bench = bigger pecs study, as I touched upon above and before on these forums, it's likely that the blokes with the big chests and big benches didn't just bench press their whole training lives, and as I said it's best really to use the bench press as an overload tool and use other exercises for hypertrophy-specific purposes.

I do strongly believe in EMG studies, though, as an exercise being high in EMG activity generally shows how effective it is as an exercise for hypertrophy - this sometimes doesn't account for individual biomechanics which is why it's still advisable to try out different exercises, but for example the squat is shown to be a s**t hamstring exercise and only a few will find it a good hamstring exercise due to unusual mechanics.

People's biggest gripe with EMG studies is that because isolation exercises often come up as exhibiting the highest activation, that the studies suggest we should be doing leg extensions instead of leg presses or squats - doesn't work like that though. Isolation exercises generally don't lend themselves to progressive overload, which obviously is a key factor in continued growth. So it makes sense to, again, use your big compounds as a progression tool, then use the high-activation exercises once that's done.



Matt6210 said:


> I don't squat, Ohp or deadlift :lol:


 For bodybuilding purposes, absolutely no reason why you can't use substitutes for these exercises :thumbup1: Leg press instead of squat for example - again, using heavy squats as a progressive overload tool, or using the leg press instead - both train the same muscle groups, so they're interchangeable. The leg press very much lends itself to progression, possibly more so than the squat as it's safer to add weight to the bars.



Matt6210 said:


> @drwae as you can see there is more than one way to skin a cat, everyone trains different, everyone's bodies are different, what you have to do is try different things and see what your body responds to the best, that goes for training, nutrition and ped use.
> 
> Think in the end you will take bits of pieces from different people or learnt yourself and have your own custom workouts that work best for you.
> 
> I'm not really a fan of following these strict rigid training programs, I like to listen to my body more, only I know when I've done enough and gone past failure enough, Maybe more sets/exercises one week to the next, not some printed out training program from a bloke that dont even know me.


 Yeah, I mean as long as you follow some basic principles such as getting your heavy compounds, balancing your volume and intensity etc. then there should always be room for individuality. It's good to follow a program for starters, but over time you should be identifying what exercises seem to work well for you and what one's don't, and replace the ones that don't. Using a well-defined program as a base, really.

That's why I like 531 as well. The big compounds are always there and you're rigid with the numbers, for the first exercise of each workout. What you do after that first exercise, is completely up to you. You can bro split it, make an upper/lower out of it or whatever else. Incredible flexibility for such a well-defined, tried & trusted program :thumbup1:


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Cheers lads. Have been changing up my training plan quite a bit this week to take into account suggestions here. I do like the squat, press and deadlift exercises and will probably keep them in.

Leg day today, regaining some of the strength that I lost from not going to the gym all of January.

Managed:

Squat 120kg 3x8

Leg press 160kg 3x10

Calf raises 120kg 3x15

Leg curls 65kg 3x12

Decided not to do front squats any more as if I really push myself on squats then I just dont have the energy for doing front squats safely after. On the last few reps of each squats set today i was seeing white spots all over

Post work out meal of rice and fried eggs


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Cheers lads. Have been changing up my training plan quite a bit this week to take into account suggestions here. I do like the squat, press and deadlift exercises and will probably keep them in.
> 
> Leg day today, regaining some of the strength that I lost from not going to the gym all of January.
> 
> ...


 Got no hamstring machines for some direct hamstring work?


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Matt6210 said:


> Got no hamstring machines for some direct hamstring work?


 Hes doing leg curls.

I'd be doing calfs last.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

AestheticManlet said:


> Hes doing leg curls.
> 
> I'd be doing calfs last.


 Only reason for that is I do calfs on the leg press machine and if I left it I'd probably have to wait ages to get back on it again, very popular machine among women who spend 20+ minutes doing what is basically cardio on it with very low weight and no rests (so no working in either)

Its been about 3 weeks since I started pinning and i think the gear is starting to take effect now, got a great pump and looking big after doing shoulders this morning

Going to jab an ansomone now and then work out what i can have for lunch that's at least 1500 calories


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> Only reason for that is I do calfs on the leg press machine and if I left it I'd probably have to wait ages to get back on it again, very popular machine among women who spend 20+ minutes doing what is basically cardio on it with very low weight and no rests
> 
> Its been about 3 weeks since I started pinning and i think the gear is starting to take effect now, got a great pump and looking big after doing shoulders this morning


 Get those pics on your journal then, no need to wait for a pump, whole point is to show progress from day 1


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Cypionate said:


> Get those pics on your journal then, no need to wait for a pump, whole point is to show progress from day 1


 I look big for me compared to january when i haven't been lifting , not big compared to people on here. Id just get the piss taken out of me :thumb


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> I look big for me, not big compared to people on here. Id just get the piss taken out of me :thumb


 No, you get the piss taken out of you when you go on about taking enough gear to kill a Rhino, then post a pic of you looking like you've never trained

If you log your journal properly no-one will take the piss, MTFU and get it done, it's UKM not fkin pre-school

Plus you can get much better feedback if people can see your progress


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Cypionate said:


> No, you get the piss taken out of you when you go on about taking enough gear to kill a Rhino, then post a pic of you looking like you've never trained
> 
> If you log your journal properly no-one will take the piss, MTFU and get it done, it's UKM not fkin pre-school
> 
> Plus you can get much better feedback if people can see your progress


 So this is my starting situation with my shoulders, I don't believe I have enough muscle development to have any specific deficits to work on

View attachment 168705


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> So this is my starting situation with my shoulders, I don't believe I have enough muscle development to have any specific deficits to work on
> 
> View attachment 168705


 What calories you eating?


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> What calories you eating?


 At least 3000 calories a day mate, sometimes up to 3500. Current weight 85 kg


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

drwae said:


> So this is my starting situation with my shoulders, I don't believe I have enough muscle development to have any specific deficits to work on
> 
> View attachment 168705


 No shame in showing photos of your current condition. We all have to start somewhere.

You have a base that can be built on. Now get the calories in and train hard.


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> So this is my starting situation with my shoulders, I don't believe I have enough muscle development to have any specific deficits to work on
> 
> View attachment 168705


 Yep as above, you have a decent starting base, train hard, eat right, sleep well, jab and you'll grow

3 months you'll look back to this pic and see a big difference if you stick to it


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Been suffering from serious fatigue the past 3 days - coming off anadrol earlier than expected as what i thought was at least 20 tablets is just powder at the bottom of the packet. Hope it will sort it out

Cooking up a big risotto for the mrs for valentines day going to load up on carbs today and smash it tomorrow on deadlifts and back. had today off for a rest


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Getting strength back, back to 3 plate deadlift...

Deadlift 140kg 3x5

Barbell row 60kg 3x10

Hammer grip pull up 4x6

Lat pulldown 65kg 3x8

Ez curls 30kg 3x10

Cable curls until failure

Is this enough exercises for back? took me under an hour, was thinking next time i could do the low row machine as well


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> Is this enough exercises for back?


 Easily

So long as you're pushing yourself to progress as frequent as possible


----------



## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

drwae said:


> at least 20 tablets is just powder at the bottom of the packet. Hope it will sort it out


 A real Dundonian would snort it.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

lewdylewd said:


> A real Dundonian would snort it.


 Would probably try if it was pure oxymetholone and not mixed with binders s**t


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

86kg weight this morning

strength shooting up. last time I did legs I did 120kg squat 3x8 and each set was taking my 100% and on the last set i only managed 6 reps because i was seeing spots and thought I would pass out of I did the last 2 reps. this time I did the full 3x8 easy and on the last set I did an extra 2 reps

also added 5kg on the leg curl, 10kg on calf raises and 2 reps on each set of leg press

fu**ing tren is getting to me though i'm just using avery small dose (200mg) for the nutrient partitioning effects to allow me to bulk faster although yesterday i started getting acid reflux and it woke me up in the night last night and I got it during my session today


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> 86kg weight this morning
> 
> strength shooting up. last time I did legs I did 120kg squat 3x8 and each set was taking my 100% and on the last set i only managed 6 reps because i was seeing spots and thought I would pass out of I did the last 2 reps. this time I did the full 3x8 easy and on the last set I did an extra 2 reps
> 
> ...


 Get some digestive enzymes.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> 86kg weight this morning
> 
> strength shooting up. last time I did legs I did 120kg squat 3x8 and each set was taking my 100% and on the last set i only managed 6 reps because i was seeing spots and thought I would pass out of I did the last 2 reps. this time I did the full 3x8 easy and on the last set I did an extra 2 reps
> 
> ...


 What drugs you actually running? Looking at your photo you really only need 500mg test, maybe oral for first month, absolutely no need to be running tren.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

ILLBehaviour said:


> Get some digestive enzymes.


 these ones good mate? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lindens-Digestive-Enzymes-Daily-90-Tablets-Digestion-Healthy-Gut/322907129712?epid=2255634515&hash=item4b2ec3c770:g:3eYAAOSwuM9brPCw:rk:2f:0



Matt6210 said:


> What drugs you actually running? Looking at your photo you really only need 500mg test, maybe oral for first month, absolutely no need to be running tren.


 600mg test for building muscle

200mg tren & 4iu GH m/w/f so I can get bigger faster without putting on too much fat

have come off orals now but I ran them for first 3 weeks (just using up old TM stuff)


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> these ones good mate? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lindens-Digestive-Enzymes-Daily-90-Tablets-Digestion-Healthy-Gut/322907129712?epid=2255634515&hash=item4b2ec3c770:g:3eYAAOSwuM9brPCw:rk:2f:0
> 
> 600mg test for building muscle
> 
> ...


 Yea that looks fine, drop 200mg tren especially if your having acid reflux problems so soon, will only get worse.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Yea that looks fine, drop 200mg tren especially if your having acid reflux problems so soon, will only get worse.


 yeah going to drop the tren and see how i get on if I start putting on to much fat then I can increase GH to 8iu or eat less

at the moment i'm well pleased as I've gained 6kg and I still use the same hole on my belt etc although i realise it will be water and glycogen weight at this point


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> yeah going to drop the tren and see how i get on if I start putting on to much fat then I can increase GH to 8iu or eat less
> 
> at the moment i'm well pleased as I've gained 6kg and I still use the same hole on my belt etc although i realise it will be water and glycogen weight at this point


 Don't be constantly worried about putting a little fat on, its inevitable if you want to add size, can soon loose it on a cut.


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

drwae said:


> these ones good mate? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lindens-Digestive-Enzymes-Daily-90-Tablets-Digestion-Healthy-Gut/322907129712?epid=2255634515&hash=item4b2ec3c770:g:3eYAAOSwuM9brPCw:rk:2f:0
> 
> 600mg test for building muscle
> 
> ...


 Is this a joke? Tren and GH? And thats you in the pic? And you used loads of other stuff before this aswell?

If you wanna use gear you just need to use test no more than 500mg...but I dont understand how you can look like that after doing all those drugs in the past.

Id stop taking all that stuff and save the money, learn how to train properly and eat right and then start again. Plenty of good info to read and learn. And if you insist on using then just use a bit of test till you figure it all out. Youll make much better gains with extra knowledge, without burning a hole in your Pocket and health.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Simon90 said:


> Is this a joke? Tren and GH? And thats you in the pic? And you used loads of other stuff before this aswell?
> 
> If you wanna use gear you just need to use test no more than 500mg...but I dont understand how you can look like that after doing all those drugs in the past.
> 
> Id stop taking all that stuff and save the money, learn how to train properly and eat right and then start again. Plenty of good info to read and learn. And if you insist on using then just use a bit of test till you figure it all out. Youll make much better gains with extra knowledge, without burning a hole in your Pocket and health.


 I gained a lot of weight from my first cycle, start weight 62kg end weight 90kg (cut back to 82kg after). However my diet and training was no good, im doing it much better this time around.

Before now I never really pushed myself, I never felt my muscles burning or trained hard enough where it was a struggle to go up stairs or pick things up for the rest of the day...

I do realise i abused way too much s**t in my first cycle without even getting the basics down


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> these ones good mate? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lindens-Digestive-Enzymes-Daily-90-Tablets-Digestion-Healthy-Gut/322907129712?epid=2255634515&hash=item4b2ec3c770:g:3eYAAOSwuM9brPCw:rk:2f:0
> 
> 600mg test for building muscle
> 
> ...


 Haven't used those ones but that brand is generally ok. Ive used quest brand from Holland and Barrett and also another brand called life something from eBay.


----------



## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

drwae said:


> I do realise i abused way too much s**t in my first cycle without even getting the basics down


 And you need to keep to those basics with AAS use too... tren and hgh is not necessary at this early stage of your development


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Simon90 said:


> Is this a joke? Tren and GH? And thats you in the pic? And you used loads of other stuff before this aswell?
> 
> If you wanna use gear you just need to use test no more than 500mg...but I dont understand how you can look like that after doing all those drugs in the past.
> 
> Id stop taking all that stuff and save the money, learn how to train properly and eat right and then start again. Plenty of good info to read and learn. And if you insist on using then just use a bit of test till you figure it all out. Youll make much better gains with extra knowledge, without burning a hole in your Pocket and health.


 this ^

GH and tren to 'limit fat gain' yet weighs 80 odd kilograms :huh:

another joe jefferies it seems, will argue til he's blue in the face about why and what hes taking does yet is still sub 90kg with weak lifts and the diet of a bikini competitor

OP id do as others have suggested

500mg test, focus on getting strong as you possibly can whilst smashing the food back, youre not going to get 'big' quick, let alone big a ripped which seems to wrongfully be so many peoples *short* term goal

you need to focus less on the needle and more on the iron, knife and fork

have a browse of this

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/299471-stop-looking-for-the-secret-its-not-that-difficult/?do=embed


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> this ^
> 
> GH and tren to 'limit fat gain' yet weighs 80 odd kilograms :huh:
> 
> ...


 I am not here to argue any more mate, I might have been when I first started here but now I am here for the advice of people who know better than me about body building


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

ILLBehaviour said:


> All these studies ffs, just stick to the basics and use good form, you'll grow and see development.


 This.

Never met anyone with a half decent total (sq/bench/dead) with completely s**t development of anything. Some people will always have bigger or smaller "whatevers", but within what you can achieve with your genetic predetermination for muscle belly fullness and origin/insertions, having a fu**ing big squat, bench and deadlift is the foundation on which everything else is built.

The OP is--by his own admission/writing--tiny, fat and weak. Sorting that out should be the goal, rather than the preference for one movement over another.

Just pick some compounds and get really fu**ing good at them is priority #1.

Also, OP, as @Matt6210 said, I can't believe your stats given your drug use in the last year!!!


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

arbffgadm100 said:


> This.
> 
> Never met anyone with a half decent total (sq/bench/dead) with completely s**t development of anything. Some people will always have bigger or smaller "whatevers", but within what you can achieve with your genetic predetermination for muscle belly fullness and origin/insertions, having a fu**ing big squat, bench and deadlift is the foundation on which everything else is built.
> 
> ...


 what is a big squat, bench and deadlift? over 200kg? I can squat 160kg for 1 rep, deadlift 180kg for 1 rep, never tried a bench 1RM.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> I am not here to argue any more mate, I might have been when I first started here but now I am here for the advice of people who know better than me about body building


 Why did you go on originally like you knew so much? Especially about steroids?


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Final note: just seen your pics.

*Thoughts:*



Drop ALL drugs ideally, or at most use 500mg test (or less) until you are well on your way towards being the "beginnings of strong" (140 bench, 200 squat, 200+ DL). Put 100% into you training and recovery and you will get there a lot quicker than you think.


Go see a physio and start sorting your posture out. Unless something is weird about that photo, you have a very serious imbalance which WILL cause you problems at some point. One of your clavicles meets the acromion is like 1-2" below the other!


Either get bigger and accept some fat gain, or get lean and then do the same. Hard to say, but you're not what I'd call lean, looking at the limited photo you have put up. But you need to completely drop the idea of being significantly bigger and leaner anytime soon. These processes are not quick, and you can't do them both at the same time.


Best of luck.


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

drwae said:


> what is a big squat, bench and deadlift? over 200kg? I can squat 160kg for 1 rep, deadlift 180kg for 1 rep, never tried a bench 1RM.


 In my view (as it is subjective), you can call yourself "strong" when you can bench 140+, squat 200+, and DL 220+.

At that point, you are at the very bottom of the ladder, but you're realistically stronger than 99.9% of people ever will be.

If you get to the point where you can rep those numbers easily, with beautiful control and clean form, you're strong, period.

And when you do get there, assuming you've not been a lazy f**k with your diet, and on the way you have progressed your bodyweight ("bulked"), then chipped it back ("cut"), and repeated that process many times, you'll probably look fu**ing amazing.


----------



## RedStar (Aug 8, 2014)

Good numbers by most gym standards in my opinion would be:

Squat - 200kg plus

Bench - 180kg plus but 140kg will get looks in a lot of places.

Deadlift - 200kg plus.

Hate to say it but your training is pathetic it has to be. I've seen more progress on 50kg girls in my gym, they hold better definition and possibly more mass than you (albeit an illusion due to being sub 5ft 4). Your physique currently wouldn't suggest you've stepped foot in a gym. So either you're lying about what you've taken to sound cool, you train like a wet blanket or you have the genetics of Joe Jefferies.

You're also over eating it seems and weight seems more important than image. You're risking just gaining a dad bod as opposed to a muscular physique with the approach you're currently taking.

In this day and age it's so easy to learn how to train. The internet is an amazing source of info. I'd honestly suggest looking into:

Dave Tate

Mark Bell

Chad Wesley Smith (juggernaut)

Matt Wenning

They're all powerlifters but they know how to fu**ing train. The stronger you get the more muscle you'll have (in general terms).

Programs like:

531

Coan Method

Cube

Coan/phillipi

I did BB training for years the 3*10-12 etc and I can say in the last year or so doing PL style training and lots of BB accessories (so effectively power building) I've gained a fck tonne more muscle than the lighter weight higher reps.

I'm currently walking around 245-248lbs with visible abs (not profound like DTM's I'll admit), but I train for size and strength eating 5500 calories a day.

I'm also the strongest I've been in years using a lot less gear than you. I expect to bench 200kg, deadlift 260+ and squat 250+ very soon when I run my next peaking wave.

@sponge2015 can verify my credentials if needs be, but all I can say is mate listen to the advice you're being given. The guys are right and your current approach needs drastically amending. Also don't forget the more you use now the more you'll have to use further down the road potentially.


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

RedStar said:


> *You're also over eating *it seems and weight seems more important than image. You're risking just gaining a dad bod as opposed to a muscular physique with the approach you're currently taking.


 This.

You have gained about a kilo every time you make a post.

You were 82kg on the 4th of Feb (your first post).

Last post you are 86kg.

In less than two weeks.

That 4kg (9lbs) of bodyweight gain isn't going to be muscle.

So I'll re quote myself here:



arbffgadm100 said:


> ... you need to completely drop the idea of being significantly bigger and leaner anytime soon. *These processes are not quick*, and you can't do them both at the same time.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> this ^
> 
> GH and tren to 'limit fat gain' yet weighs 80 odd kilograms :huh:
> 
> ...





RedStar said:


> Good numbers by most gym standards in my opinion would be:
> 
> Squat - 200kg plus
> 
> ...


 FFS, Joe Jefferies, that silly c**t ended up putting himself in hospital thinking he knew better than everyone else. Still looks like s**t too.

Take note @drwae


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

I think that's my biggest ejaculation of likes I've ever given in such a short space of time

Good posts to all of the above :thumb

OP you say you're not here to argue

Why would you be? It's hard to put it lightly but you honestly would have made better progress natural with proper programming and nutrition / eating in a consistent surplus not worrying about fattening up a muscleless frame than you have on gear not following the basics and paying your dues.

I've seen it over and over with people putting the gear before anything else and refusing to adjust their dosages

Yes a lot of us heavily discuss gear on this forum but it's because we have all the basics in line

You should be looking in member journals for routines and programming not doses and compounds

For you right now I think your best bet would be ICF 5x5 to satisfy your desire for 'feeling like youve worked the muscle' whilst still doing what actually counts; getting stronger on the barbell lifts.

Personally before I ever touched gear I tried to hit naturally a 3 plate bench, 4 plate squat and 5 plate deadlift

I achieved the bench and squat and got a 210 deadlift

Not saying everyone needs to strive or settle for this but it's good to at least have some base of strength before throwing in gear


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

ILLBehaviour said:


> FFS, Joe Jefferies, that silly c**t ended up putting himself in hospital thinking he knew better than everyone else. Still looks like s**t too.
> 
> Take note @drwae


 Never heard of him.....


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> Why did you go on originally like you knew so much? Especially about steroids?


 I think he fell in into the 'More is better' trap that many do.

@drwae I would like to see you actually being sensible and taking on all this good advice, good luck to you.

One thing I read a while back, your GF was vegan and you were struggling to get enough daily protein in?

Not sure if this has been addressed, but if not, it needs to be, it's far more important than any gear you could ever take.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Sparkey said:


> I think he fell in into the 'More is better' trap that many do.
> 
> @drwae I would like to see you actually being sensible and taking on all this good advice, good luck to you.
> 
> ...


 He used to regularly give out steroid advice to people asking questions mate, I used to pull him up on it.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> He used to regularly give out steroid advice to people asking questions mate, I used to pull him up on it.


 Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone".

We've all done daft sh1t bud.

This Christian stuffs gone to my head lol. :lol:


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Sparkey said:


> Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, "He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.
> 
> We've all done daft sh1t bud.
> 
> This Christian stuffs gone to my head lol. :lol:


 Suits you, especially with your new role, start quoting s**t like Samuel l Jackson does at the start of pulp fiction before you delete threads and ban.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> Suits you, especially with your new role, start quoting s**t like Samuel l Jackson does at the start of pulp fiction before you delete threads and ban.


 Actually lolled.

Say 'what' again I dare you!


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Sparkey said:


> Actually lolled.
> 
> Say 'what' again I dare you!


 I double dare you mother ****er


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> I double dare you mother ****er


 Say that labs website again, I dare you, I double dare you......


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Sparkey said:


> Say that labs website again, I dare you, I double dare you......


 "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison my forum and to source steroids from my brothers"


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Matt6210 said:


> Never heard of him.....


 https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmsx1pAHOjC/?hl=en

He consistently cycles around the 2-4g Mark alongside around 100units of insulin per week and 10iu hgh per day

Claims the gear doesn't work properly on him but then his training consists of one very light compound lift then tons of overly complicated isolation work done with ridiculous theories behind them like cell swelling and stupidly ott and meticulous time under tension for example soemthing like 4 second press, hold for 7 seconds at the top, 5 second negative, 4 second pause on the chest, repeat

All sounds very fancy but then he looks like that ^^ for the last few years running all of the above

Just another 'bang a s**t load of gear in and hope it saves me' sort

0 intensity

0 training knowledge

And eating like a bird


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison my forum and to source steroids from my brothers"


 Copied for later :thumb


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

swole troll said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmsx1pAHOjC/?hl=en
> 
> He consistently cycles around the 2-4g Mark alongside around 100units of insulin per week and 10iu hgh per day
> 
> ...


 Is that Mr Muscle?

No not him!

In the shower cubicle?

:lol:


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

swole troll said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmsx1pAHOjC/?hl=en
> 
> He consistently cycles around the 2-4g Mark alongside around 100units of insulin per week and 10iu hgh per day
> 
> ...


 Haha its like he is speaking another language the way he goes on. How tall is he do you know?

His time under tension stuff is bollocks, I am sure it was JP who said if you can squeeze/hold a weight for that long it aint fu**ing heavy enough lol.


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

swole troll said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmsx1pAHOjC/?hl=en
> 
> He consistently cycles around the 2-4g Mark alongside around 100units of insulin per week and 10iu hgh per day
> 
> ...


 Holy f**k.

So, 15 weeks ago this pr**k was, what?, 185lbs... i.e., 84kg.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. He's fu**ing TINY!!!!

What a c**t.

EDIT: hang on, he's got TWENTY-ONE THOUSAND followers. What the actual f**k?!?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Simon90 said:


> Haha its like he is speaking another language the way he goes on. How tall is he do you know?
> 
> His time under tension stuff is bollocks, I am sure it was JP who said if you can squeeze/hold a weight for that long it aint fu**ing heavy enough lol.


 this is from that IG post i linked above

*
joejefferyuk
*

@phatkid77_allmax 5'11

so as @arbffgadm100 stated, before joe blew up with predominantly water from the HUGE doses of HGH and gear he was 84kg at 5 foot 11.....

on grams of gear

70 units of growth hormone per week

over 100 units of insulin per week

five foot eleven and eighty four kilograms










drwae i wont clog your log up any more about joe jeffry

wasnt trying to come across as a dick I just want to see you achieve your goals without unnecessarily hurting your health and wallet


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmsx1pAHOjC/?hl=en
> 
> He consistently cycles around the 2-4g Mark alongside around 100units of insulin per week and 10iu hgh per day
> 
> ...


 He's a complete c**t, the worst part of it is hes coaching people.

His log on tm was epic, think mods deleted it now but shouldve left it there as a warning to other imo.

Been called out by Dave crosland whom he claimed to be mates with and also numerous other experienced coaches on Facebook for his bad advice and as I said managed to put himself in hospital on at least one occasion thinking he knew what he was doing when he clearly has no idea.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> He's a complete c**t, the worst part of it is hes coaching people.
> 
> His log on tm was epic, think mods deleted it now but shouldve left it there as a warning to other imo.
> 
> Been called out by Dave crosland whom he claimed to be mates with and also numerous other experienced coaches on Facebook for his bad advice and as I said managed to put himself in hospital on at least one occasion thinking he knew what he was doing when he clearly has no idea.


 i remember

he went around several forums getting heat before ukmuscle

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/294753--/?do=embed


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

arbffgadm100 said:


> Holy f**k.
> 
> So, 15 weeks ago this pr**k was, what?, 185lbs... i.e., 84kg.
> 
> ...


 No fu**ing way he's 228lbs there


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> No fu**ing way he's 228lbs there


 I know mate. I'm 5'10-11, and a s**t tonne leaner, and miles more muscular, aaaaannd I'm 94kg.

So, like, 20lbs less than him. LOL 

He looks about 84kg in that "after" photo.


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

swole troll said:


> i remember
> 
> he went around several forums getting heat before ukmuscle
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/294753--/?do=embed


 Holy s**t I just read first page lol. Using seo just to get a 17 inch arm wtf


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> No fu**ing way he's 228lbs there


 Exactly what I thought lol thats why I asked his height to see if hes tall as f**k but hes not


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> i remember
> 
> he went around several forums getting heat before ukmuscle
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/294753--/?do=embed





Matt6210 said:


> No fu**ing way he's 228lbs there


 He upset people so much with his bullshit that someone went and burnt his car out.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

ILLBehaviour said:


> He upset people so much with his bullshit that someone went and burnt his car out.


 I can imagine I've never even spoken to him and burning his car out is sounding like more and more of a good idea by the post.


----------



## S_C (May 16, 2018)

swole troll said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmsx1pAHOjC/?hl=en
> 
> He consistently cycles around the 2-4g Mark alongside around 100units of insulin per week and 10iu hgh per day
> 
> ...


 Would not put him at 228 he looks about 180 lol


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

threw an extra 10kg on my overhead press today for the hell of it and managed all my sets and reps :thumb I'm up to 3x15 on my side raises superset with my face pulls so i think ill go up to the next weight next session and see if i can do 3x8 or 3x10

if my shoulders keep increasing strength at this pace I will be able to complete my long-time goal which has been to press 60kg for 3x8 by the end of the month.. i know its not much for people here but i've never managed to do it for more than 1 rep

hope not to be joe jeffrey :lol:

have also started my supplements again, i haven't taken them for months as i got too lazy to take all the different tablets

omega 3 x4 a day

vitamin d tablet

garlic extract tablet

zinc tablet


----------



## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Matt6210 said:


> "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison my forum and to source steroids from my brothers"


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)




----------



## bornagod (Mar 30, 2015)

drwae said:


> View attachment 168993


 Now one topless

No **** :lol:


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> View attachment 168993


 What did you blur out on your top?


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> What did you blur out on your top?


 Alt-Fit Autastic.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> What did you blur out on your top?


 Club name, dont want anyone knowing im not natty :thumb


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Just had a doner kebab and chips on the way home from work to get some extra calories in

I'm well pleased with how quickly im putting on size and strength

Looking forward to training tomorrow as every time lately i just thrown extra 5 or 10kg on the bar and getting all my reps in still


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

dtmiscool said:


> You volume on chest day is less than any other day? I'd rather do a fly movement instead of 3 presses personally.


 Agree. And or dips


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

drwae said:


> View attachment 168993


 Get some more lateral raises in your workout mate to round off your shoulders.

There's a million varieties. I like cable lean away (Egyptian) raises with a cable. And seated DB on a slight incline.

Do some at the end of your chest day as well as shoulder day.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Agree. And or dips


 This is my new chest routine I've done the past 2-3 times

Bench

Incline dumbbell bench

Incline dumbbell flyes

Chest press machine

High cable crossover

Tricep pull down rope

Is that enough?



Endomorph84 said:


> Get some more lateral raises in your workout mate to round off your shoulders.
> 
> There's a million varieties. I like cable lean away (Egyptian) raises with a cable. And seated DB on a slight incline.
> 
> Do some at the end of your chest day as well as shoulder day.


 Is this the one mate?


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> This is my new chest routine I've done the past 2-3 times
> 
> Bench
> 
> ...


 Personally wouldn't bother with chest press and would only do one fly movement which for me would on a machine or cables.


----------



## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

drwae said:


> This is my new chest routine I've done the past 2-3 times
> 
> Bench
> 
> ...


 That's 4 exercises on the chest and only 1 on triceps...

I would make it 3 and 2 - drop cable crossover and add in skullcrushers or similar (I would also swap machine press for flat barbell bench).


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

TERBO said:


> That's 4 exercises on the chest and only 1 on triceps...


 He has 3 pressing exercises all of which work the triceps.


----------



## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

monkeybiker said:


> He has 3 pressing exercises all of which work the triceps.


 Maybe it's just me then, but I like to do two exercises on isolation work.


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

TERBO said:


> Maybe it's just me then but I like to do two exercises on isolation work.


 Not saying your wrong just it's not accurate to say he's only working his triceps with one exercise. If you are pressing heavy you wont have weak triceps.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TERBO said:


> Maybe it's just me then, but I like to do two exercises on isolation work.


 I usually do 1 set rope pushdowns followed by 2 set skullcrushers although drwaes main concern should be hitting all the compounds with decent form and adding weight to the bar.


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

drwae said:


> Is this the one mate?


 That's the one mate :thumbup1:


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> That's the one mate :thumbup1:


 Cheers, will give it a go tomorrow. Would I do it before or after I do my dumbbell side raises (which I superset with rope face pulls) or even add it into the superset so I'm doing all 3?


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

drwae said:


> Cheers, will give it a go tomorrow. Would I do it before or after I do my dumbbell side raises (which I superset with rope face pulls) or even add it into the superset so I'm doing all 3?


 Do one variation on Chest day and another on Shoulder day bro.

Get some frequency in there!


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Do one variation on Chest day and another on Shoulder day bro.
> 
> Get some frequency in there!


 Will do! thanks

Just trained legs

Up to 130kg squat for reps

Pinned 4iu ansomone and about to head to the buffet for several plates of post work out chinese :lol:

The clean eating didn't last long its just such a struggle to get the calories in for putting on any serious size like im aiming for


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

drwae said:


> The clean eating didn't last long its just such a struggle to get the calories in for putting on any serious size like im aiming for


 I get what you're saying but 3,500/ 4000 cals is so easy to do in a day.

Cereals, sandwiches and flapjacks are my go to. Cheap and efficient too


----------



## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

Endomorph84 said:


> I get what you're saying but 3,500/ 4000 cals is so easy to do in a day.
> 
> Cereals, sandwiches and flapjacks are my go to. Cheap and efficient too


 agree it gets hard when u need 5k plus,


----------



## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

drwae said:


> Will do! thanks
> 
> Just trained legs
> 
> ...


 bro try having big shakes so full fat milk, tuna, oats, olive oil, peanut butter and fruits u can get 1k plus in a shake doing this and its better prob healthier for the heart and pocket


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

S1dhu82 said:


> bro try having big shakes so full fat milk, tuna, oats, olive oil, peanut butter and fruits u can get 1k plus in a shake doing this and its better prob healthier for the heart and pocket


 sounds absolutely rank with tuna in there :lol:

@Endomorph84 loved the egyptian raises, didn't really get a pump but definitely felt the fatigue on my delts in the last couple of reps of each set


----------



## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

drwae said:


> sounds absolutely rank with tuna in there :lol:
> 
> @Endomorph84 loved the egyptian raises, didn't really get a pump but definitely felt the fatigue on my delts in the last couple of reps of each set


 honestly its not that bad id put fat free strawberry yoghurt with tuna id hardly taste it its the olive oil thats the worst lol but it helps get the cals in


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Mixed nuts, cheap and loads of cals and easy to pick on


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Feeding my shoulders one plate now and the rest of it when i get back from work tonight :lol:

going to become a fu**ing beast!

View attachment 169169


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

S1dhu82 said:


> bro try having big shakes so full fat milk, tuna, oats, olive oil, peanut butter and fruits u can get 1k plus in a shake doing this and its better prob healthier for the heart and pocket


 Why tuna?? Why not put a scoop of protein in and enjoy the taste. Absolutely no need to blend tuna, chicken or whatever the fcuk.

Anyway keep the progress up @drwae. Have you increased your body weight yet?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

boutye911 said:


> Why tuna?? Why not put a scoop of protein in and enjoy the taste. Absolutely no need to blend tuna, chicken or whatever the fcuk.


 that wouldnt sound as hardcore though


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

just start adding extra virgin olive oil to your meals

probably do you some good to offset all the shite fat sources youre consuming

ive always reverse shittied my food when pushing hard to gain weight 
by that i mean ill start with say 5 meals clean and 1 dirty and every time kcals go up ill add another dirty meal

the trick is to know when to stop before you eliminate all the clean meals and youre just eating burgers and chips and all day (ive been there for my own reasons and i assure you its counter productive long term)

remember that the gear and the shitty diet will both be hammering your health markers and i dont care what any IIFYMer says, cleaner foods are more conducive to gains through bettwe performance in the gym, greater nutrient partitioning and being healthier

when you start going over about 70/30 at the most clean/dirty its time to reevaluate what youre really trying to achieve

whole milk
pasta 
oil 
peanut butter 
cereal (not ridiculous sugary kids s**t) 
high fatty cuts of meat 
steak beef burgers

all good bulkers to add to your diet

and for cheat foods dont go eating giant bags of doritos and mars bars, there are better bad choices for when you really are struggling to get those last few kcals in like

burger 
pizza 
indian (tandoori chicken, rice and naan)

again these are obviously going to be what you fit in your 30% of your macros but theyre 'better' choices than crisps and haribo which are literally total junk


----------



## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

swole troll said:


> when you start going over about 70/30 at the most clean/dirty its time to reevaluate what youre really trying to achieve
> 
> whole milk
> pasta
> ...


 what's some half decent cereal you'd recommend?

got some honey and peanut crisp cereal but it's quite high sugar per 100g is 24g sugar with 68g carbs.. didn't realise it'd be that high.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

darren.1987 said:


> what's some half decent cereal you'd recommend?
> 
> got some honey and peanut crisp cereal but it's quite high sugar per 100g is 24g sugar with 68g carbs.. didn't realise it'd be that high.


 Bran flakes

Special k

Rice crispies

All bran

Shredded wheat

Just the non super sugary ones and you add a scoop of vanilla whey to sweeten

I like to put the whey over it dry then pour the milk over so it makes a kind of sweet gloop over the top of it

But if you want to keep it a bit more conventional just bang the milk and whey in a shaker bottle then pour it over once mixed


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

boutye911 said:


> Why tuna?? Why not put a scoop of protein in and enjoy the taste. Absolutely no need to blend tuna, chicken or whatever the fcuk.


 Tell that to Blain Sumner lol. The dirty wrongun blends chicken and makes shakes.

Blending real food from micronutrient point of view it is better. But I agree, no need to blend real food.

I add greens or fruit to my meals and I have an half an energise multivitamin tab from Asda daily, sorted :lol:


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Endomorph84 said:


> Tell that to Blain Sumner lol. The dirty wrongun blends chicken and makes shakes.
> 
> Blending real food from micronutrient point of view it is better. But I agree, no need to blend real food.
> 
> I add greens or fruit to my meals and I have an half an energise multivitamin tab from Asda daily, sorted :lol:


 i think partly why he does it as well is he is consuming so many calories that he has to consume a considerable portion as liquid and doesnt want to drink a load of powders that can cause GI issues and end up being counterproductive to getting loads of calories in as your stomachs just blown out all day

i do agree though it is because he is at the top of his game and wants to make every calorie count but for someone consuming 4000-6000kcal to pursue a hobby its completely unnecessary


----------



## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

boutye911 said:


> Why tuna?? Why not put a scoop of protein in and enjoy the taste. Absolutely no need to blend tuna, chicken or whatever the fcuk.
> 
> Anyway keep the progress up @drwae. Have you increased your body weight yet?


 i dont really like fish so its a easy way for me to get it in my diet


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

boutye911 said:


> Why tuna?? Why not put a scoop of protein in and enjoy the taste. Absolutely no need to blend tuna, chicken or whatever the fcuk.
> 
> Anyway keep the progress up @drwae. Have you increased your body weight yet?


 I'm still at 87kg for the past week mate, im not sure if its nothing to be worried about or if i need to find a way to increase calories any more which would be insane since 3000 is the bare minimum i'm on now, with all the chinese lately its been more like 4000+


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> just start adding extra virgin olive oil to your meals
> 
> probably do you some good to offset all the shite fat sources youre consuming
> 
> ...


 Will do mate, love a bit of olive oil on top of stuff actually it tastes nice

What do you think about granola?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> Will do mate, love a bit of olive oil on top of stuff actually it tastes nice
> 
> What do you think about granola?


 I eat granola usually on top of Greek yogurt, about 50g and I'd consider this part of my 'cheat' calories for the day.

Don't feel you need to hit 30% of your calories as cheat food, ideally go 100% clean but for sanity and to not end up having a melt down allow yourself up to 30% of your kcals as cheat foods if you're struggling for calories


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

drwae said:


> I'm still at 87kg for the past week mate, im not sure if its nothing to be worried about or if i need to find a way to increase calories any more which would be insane since 3000 is the bare minimum i'm on now, with all the chinese lately its been more like 4000+


 Add in a couple of pints of whole milk after a few meals. Add olive oil to your meals or shakes. Simple things that are high in calories and won't blunt your appetite to much.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

boutye911 said:


> Add in a couple of pints of whole milk after a few meals. Add olive oil to your meals or shakes. Simple things that are high in calories and won't blunt your appetite to much.


 I hate milk, id vomit if I tried to drink it. what do you think of orange juice? tropicana original not sunny D or s**t like that


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Yea I usually have about 250ml of orange juice with each meal. Do you like nuts? Again 100g of nuts is 500kcal plus. Easy to eat between meals.


----------



## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

drwae said:


> I hate milk, id vomit if I tried to drink it. what do you think of orange juice? tropicana original not sunny D or s**t like that


 I can't stomach milk, greek yoghurt is my friend

Awesome ingredient


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

opinions on reverse grip bench press? i tried it today instead of my incline dumbbell bench because the dumbbells i wanted to use were busy, it gave me a great pump in my chest but found unracking really awkward with that grip


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> opinions on reverse grip bench press? i tried it today instead of my incline dumbbell bench because the dumbbells i wanted to use were busy, it gave me a great pump in my chest but found unracking really awkward with that grip


 utter shite

just an inferior close grip bench press


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Not eaten nearly enough calories the past couple of days  I have a still undiagnosed stomach problem (possibly IBS or IBD) and it's flared up this weekend and i've just been in pain and had zero appetite

Took today off the gym as well but hoping ill be better tomorrow and I can start eating normal again


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> Not eaten nearly enough calories the past couple of days  I have a still undiagnosed stomach problem (possibly IBS or IBD) and it's flared up this weekend and i've just been in pain and had zero appetite
> 
> Took today off the gym as well but hoping ill be better tomorrow and I can start eating normal again


 get on the kefir and cut out all that crap youre eating (take aways and pizzas ect) 
might not be a bad shout to minimize dairy consumption for a bit also

bloat, poor digestion, acid reflux ect ect are all massive hindrance in getting big 
anything that interferes with the amount of calories you can comfortably and efficiently consume needs resolving ASAP


----------



## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

dunno if ur on tren or not but id drop that and as above cut all ur takeaways out.


----------



## smash (Jul 23, 2013)

swole troll said:


> get on the kefir and cut out all that crap youre eating (take aways and pizzas ect)
> might not be a bad shout to minimize dairy consumption for a bit also
> 
> bloat, poor digestion, acid reflux ect ect are all massive hindrance in getting big
> anything that interferes with the amount of calories you can comfortably and efficiently consume needs resolving ASAP


 What's Kefir good for?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

smash said:


> What's Kefir good for?


 Its thee best thing you can consume for gut health period

Loads of healthy bacteria that improves gut flora, digestion and stomach acidity (this will NOT cause acid reflux, in fact it will cure it in the vast majority of cases)


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> get on the kefir and cut out all that crap youre eating (take aways and pizzas ect)
> might not be a bad shout to minimize dairy consumption for a bit also
> 
> bloat, poor digestion, acid reflux ect ect are all massive hindrance in getting big
> anything that interferes with the amount of calories you can comfortably and efficiently consume needs resolving ASAP


 how can i eat kefir while also minimising dairy consumption? or does it not count

i just went to the shops looking for kefir but entire polish section was sold out, going to go for a drive to another town later and see if i can get some because im in constant pain and shitting out water all the time and got no appetite

im eating very clean rice and salmon fillets and sauerkraut but its making me sick

its also causing anaemia even if i take iron tablets (ive had anaemia for over a year) and im wondering now if it could be causing poor absorption of other nutrients as well? protein? could be why i look like s**t even though ive taken so much gear lol


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## anna1 (Mar 22, 2014)

drwae said:


> how can i eat kefir while also minimising dairy consumption? or does it not count
> 
> i just went to the shops looking for kefir but entire polish section was sold out, going to go for a drive to another town later and see if i can get some because im in constant pain and shitting out water all the time and got no appetite
> 
> ...


 Have you looked into any form of celiac disorder?

could be a matter of you just excluding certain food sources

that could cause poor absorption of nutrients

just a guess


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

anna1 said:


> Have you looked into any form of celiac disorder?
> 
> could be a matter of you just excluding certain food sources
> 
> ...


 I'm going to see a specialist but it could take months. i'm trying to start following a low fodmap diet


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## anna1 (Mar 22, 2014)

drwae said:


> I'm going to see a specialist but it could take months. i'm trying to start following a low fodmap diet


 Months?

it's worth looking into it though,

friends recently thought they were losing their daughter and it was just a matter of excluding gluten from her diet

just a wild guess


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> how can i eat kefir while also minimising dairy consumption? or does it not count
> 
> i just went to the shops looking for kefir but entire polish section was sold out, going to go for a drive to another town later and see if i can get some because im in constant pain and shitting out water all the time and got no appetite
> 
> ...


 All dairy with the exception of 250ml kefir morning and night (500ml per day total)

If you've got a big Tesco near you they sell it


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Stomach doing much better today

Appetite back and nausea gone

Up to 140kg (3 plates) squats for 8 reps

:thumb


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

chuffed that all my old small t shirts are just ridiculously hard to get in to and look silly now, far too tight in the shoulders and chest


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

I'm not lactose intolerant or allergic to dairy, but found protein drinks start giving me stomach pain.

Switched to bulkpowders isolate the all natural one, problem fixed


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Today I hit a long term goal of mine that ive had for a while

Overhead press 60kg as a working weight for sets

I know its not much but shoulders have always been a weak point for me so I'm pleased with this

I'm also using as working weights right now: squat 150kg, deadlift 180kg. So I have already accomplished my goals of a 3 plate squat for reps and a 4 plate deadlift for reps

My bench is weak (working weight 90kg) would like to get that to 100kg+ as that's my only other goal left what i haven't hit with regard to weights


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

drwae said:


> Today I hit a long term goal of mine that ive had for a while
> 
> Overhead press 60kg as a working weight for sets
> 
> ...


 Well done fella. Getting stronger and achieving what you set out to. Good for you. :thumbup1:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Today I hit a long term goal of mine that ive had for a while
> 
> Overhead press 60kg as a working weight for sets
> 
> ...


 Yeah good on you lad! Strength dont peak till late 20's early 30's.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

drwae said:


> Today I hit a long term goal of mine that ive had for a while
> 
> Overhead press 60kg as a working weight for sets
> 
> ...


 See, just think how much better you can chuck people down the stairs


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Weight has been stalled for the past few weeks stuck at ~89kg so time to add some s**t :lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Weight has been stalled for the past few weeks stuck at ~89kg so time to add some s**t :lol:
> 
> View attachment 170365


 struggling get the cals in get a blender and have couple shakes a day, I have 2 a day at a 1000 cals each, cream of rice, Greek yogurt oats all options for shakes with full fat milk, whey and a banana.

get some extra virgin olive oil, 1 table spoon adds 120cals to a couple of meals a day.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

drwae said:


> My bench is weak (working weight 90kg) would like to get that to 100kg+ as that's my only other goal left what i haven't hit with regard to weights


 What's your form like?

Lots of good tips here

https://www.youtube.com/user/supertraining06/search?query=bench+press


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> What's your form like?
> 
> Lots of good tips here
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/supertraining06/search?query=bench+press


 Will have a look at some of those videos I think my form is not too bad, I always go right down to touch my chest at the bottom of a rep, shoulder blades back, arse on the bench


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

drwae said:


> Will have a look at some of those videos I think my form is not too bad, I always go right down to touch my chest at the bottom of a rep, shoulder blades back, arse on the bench


 I found it hard to get the form right but getting better helps take the stress off the shoulders. You can experiment with width of grip too. I like to have my little finger on the rings of the barbell. If I go wider I am weaker.


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

Matt6210 said:


> struggling get the cals in get a blender and have couple shakes a day, I have 2 a day at a 1000 cals each, cream of rice, Greek yogurt oats all options for shakes with full fat milk, whey and a banana.
> 
> get some extra virgin olive oil, 1 table spoon adds 120cals to a couple of meals a day.


 500ml whole milk

1 banana

2 scoops whey

1-2 tbsp peanut butter

40g oats

Sorts me right out before bed. I might try that cream of rice and yogurt in my daytime shake, how does the cream of rice mix/taste, I'm guessing pretty well?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

S_C said:


> 500ml whole milk
> 
> 1 banana
> 
> ...


 Yeah I really rate it, cheap off go nutrition, mixes well, digests well, easiest way to get carbs in.


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

Matt6210 said:


> Yeah I really rate it, cheap off go nutrition, mixes well, digests well, easiest way to get carbs in.


 Cheers mate. 45% off at the moment as well.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

@S_C @Matt6210 do you need a blender to make these smoothies? i don't have one.. also do you still eat the same amount of extra calories on off days from the gym?


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

drwae said:


> @S_C @Matt6210 do you need a blender to make these smoothies? i don't have one.. also do you still eat the same amount of extra calories on off days from the gym?


 Yeah I use one mainly for the oats and banana. There's no reason you can't use powdered oats instead though and have the banana on the side, or not at all, just cater the shake to your calorie needs. I don't know how well cream of rice would mix in a shaker.

My calories are just slightly over maintenance on rest days and higher on training. Some people do it differently and spread the surplus evenly over the week.


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## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

cream of rice mixes fine in a shaker with wire ball.

I use a shaker if I'm cooking the cream of rice but tbh I just blend it with milk, protein and peanut butter or EVOO and drink it as a lot simpler


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> @S_C @Matt6210 do you need a blender to make these smoothies? i don't have one.. also do you still eat the same amount of extra calories on off days from the gym?


 If you buy cream of rice you can shake it up with whey without a blender.

I eat same amount everyday


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

I use

NUTRiBULLET 600 Series Starter Kit - Nutrient Extractor High Speed Blender - 600W 5 Piece Set - Graphite https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079GT8JF2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_4JMNCb4G3WZ3M


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Was at work the other night yelling at some c**t and a bloke watching says to me "wish I had your job must be fun shouting at people all night" (no it fu**ing isn't) and his missus says "when you're his size you can do his job" :lol:

Also saw a colleague who i hadn't saw in a while and first thing he said was "you're looking big"


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Was at work the other night yelling at some c**t and a bloke watching says to me "wish I had your job must be fun shouting at people all night" (no it fu**ing isn't) and his missus says "when you're his size you can do his job" :lol:


 Should of cut the geezer some slack mate, he only wanted a couple of games of bingo.(you probably had to shout because he was deaf)


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## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

drwae said:


> Was at work the other night yelling at some c**t and a bloke watching says to me "wish I had your job must be fun shouting at people all night" (no it fu**ing isn't) and his missus says "when you're his size you can do his job" :lol:
> 
> Also saw a colleague who i hadn't saw in a while and first thing he said was "you're looking big"


 Any progress pics


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Simon90 said:


> Any progress pics


 yes mate im getting bit fat will be glad to finish off this cycle and cut down a bit


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> yes mate im getting bit fat will be glad to finish off this cycle and cut down a bit
> 
> View attachment 170751


 Bro you got gyno?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Bro you got gyno?


 Yeah a little I've struggled with gyno since i was a teenager I got up to 120kg pure fat and got gyno. Ive been taking either raloxifene or nolva non stop for almost 2 years and its reduced it but it looks like im going to have to save up for surgery


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Yeah a little I've struggled with gyno since i was a teenager I got up to 120kg pure fat and got gyno. Ive been taking either raloxifene or nolva non stop for almost 2 years and its reduced it but it looks like im going to have to save up for surgery


 It looks pretty bad man, look worse when you cut. your either lucky with it or your not I used to run 1200mg test with no ai and be alright.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Matt6210 said:


> It looks pretty bad man, look worse when you cut. your either lucky with it or your not I used to run 1200mg test with no ai and be alright.


 Just nearly gave me a hard on, it's that bad! haha

fcuk blasting gear drwae, you need a flight to Poland to address that.

Worst gyno I've ever seen.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Pancake' said:


> Just nearly gave me a hard on, it's that bad! haha
> 
> fcuk blasting gear drwae, you need a flight to Poland to address that.
> 
> Worst gyno I've ever seen.


 hahah its not the gear mate about 10 years ago I was walking round with massive tits and a stomach the size of a bus and some of it never went away :lol: must of been because i got so fat going through puberty or something it f**ked my hormones, dont know

I've just had a look online actually and it looks like you can get gyno surgery in poland for £1.5k so might do that fairly soon once ive leaned out a bit


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> hahah its not the gear mate about 10 years ago I was walking round with massive tits and a stomach the size of a bus and some of it never went away :lol: must of been because i got so fat going through puberty or something it f**ked my hormones, dont know
> 
> I've just had a look online actually and it looks like you can get *gyno surgery in poland for £1.5k* so might do that fairly soon once ive leaned out a bit


 You must've spent that much on gear alone already, stop buying so much gear and use the money on the surgery instead


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

drwae said:


> hahah its not the gear mate about 10 years ago I was walking round with massive tits and a stomach the size of a bus and some of it never went away :lol: must of been because i got so fat going through puberty or something it f**ked my hormones, dont know
> 
> I've just had a look online actually and it looks like you can get gyno surgery in poland for £1.5k so might do that fairly soon once ive leaned out a bit


 Fair play to you for all that weight loss mate... get the surgery and it'll be like it never happened lol


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Looks like a mixture of psuedogyno and potentially fiberous gynecomastia due to the coning

Dieting will reduce it but if there is developed fiberous glands under there you will require surgery (I've tried everything and NOTHING will completely rid it other than a scalpel)

The good news is if you do get surgery they will liposuction your chest as well so that the pseudogyno (chest fat cells) will be removed and won't return unless you get really fat again as that is obviously a spot your body favours to hold fat when you push beyond a certain bf%

I had both pre surgery although my pseudogyno wasn't as bad as yours and I cut down to around 10% body fat and had a very small half almond sized gland on the left pec and a pea sized gland on the right, I went to Poland to get them removed as despite it being near impossible to see it made AI management a bit of a ballache since I like to allow e2 to run a bit higher on cycle (particularly when bulking) so i had them removed, 2k well spent


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> hahah its not the gear mate about 10 years ago I was walking round with massive tits and a stomach the size of a bus and some of it never went away :lol: must of been because i got so fat going through puberty or something it f**ked my hormones, dont know
> 
> I've just had a look online actually and it looks like you can get gyno surgery in poland for £1.5k so might do that fairly soon once ive leaned out a bit


 @swole troll or @Sparkey the blokes to talk to about that mate, both had it done and highly recommend the surgery they used.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

drwae said:


> hahah its not the gear mate about 10 years ago I was walking round with massive tits and a stomach the size of a bus and some of it never went away :lol: must of been because i got so fat going through puberty or something it f**ked my hormones, dont know
> 
> I've just had a look online actually and it looks like you can get gyno surgery in poland for £1.5k so might do that fairly soon once ive leaned out a bit


 Sorry bud, I didn't read the above posts prior as busy atm, but I see where you're coming from now given it's a byproduct of extreme weight loss. least you don't have that really saggy skin appearance. Yeah logs about it on here swole troll and sparky had it done, seems relatively cheap.

Edit: talk a the devil. still cracking rack will fap later.

No ****


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> Looks like a mixture of psuedogyno and potentially fiberous gynecomastia due to the coning
> 
> Dieting will reduce it but if there is developed fiberous glands under there you will require surgery (I've tried everything and NOTHING will completely rid it other than a scalpel)
> 
> ...


 its definitely partly fat as its not nearly as bad when I'm leaner, like before my current bulk I was 8-10kg less than i am now and it wasn't as bad

But still noticeable, think I'm going to get the surgery

Which clinic did you go to mate?



Pancake' said:


> Sorry bud, I didn't read the above posts prior as busy atm, but I see where you're coming from now given it's a byproduct of extreme weight loss. least you don't have that really saggy skin appearance. Yeah logs about it on here swole troll and sparky had it done, seems relatively cheap.
> 
> Edit: talk a the devil. still cracking rack will fap later.
> 
> No ****


 I can do private pics and videos for £££ pm me x


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> hahah its not the gear mate about 10 years ago I was walking round with massive tits and a stomach the size of a bus and some of it never went away :lol: must of been because i got so fat going through puberty or something it f**ked my hormones, dont know
> 
> I've just had a look online actually and it looks like you can get gyno surgery in poland for £1.5k so might do that fairly soon once ive leaned out a bit


 Charge the old ladies an extra knicker a piece to get into bingo, soon have a couple a bags.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> its definitely partly fat as its not nearly as bad when I'm leaner, like before my current bulk I was 8-10kg less than i am now and it wasn't as bad
> 
> But still noticeable, think I'm going to get the surgery
> 
> ...


 Noa clinic

Quite a few of us have had the op done there

When I say 2k I mean it was 2k for everything

Flights, food, accomodation and operation

Noa clinic will also arrange for a taxi driver to pick you up from the airport and take you to your hotel on the evening and then pick you up the following the morning and take you to the clinic


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> Charge the old ladies an extra knicker a piece to get into bingo, soon have a couple a bags.


 Sadly i dont take the money, theres girls who sell wrist bands and I just check its on their wrist along with their ID


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> Noa clinic
> 
> Quite a few of us have had the op done there
> 
> ...


 Will check them out

Did you have to go twice (once for a consultation) or is pics enough?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> Will check them out
> 
> Did you have to go twice (once for a consultation) or is pics enough?


 Nope

Went straight there, no pics or fa

Just went in and was examined, answered some routine questions to make sure I'm not a nut case and that was it

The guy who did my op does hundred or so per year woitech? something I'll be f**ked If I remember the spelling but basically looked like some polish surfer

Use to need 1mg adex daily on 750mg test+ to avoid nipple irritation

Can run 350mg dbol per week on top of 750mg with no ai now

I'll still use a bit of ai and sometimes use nolva but that's more for the cholesterol benefits


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Sadly i dont take the money, theres girls who sell wrist bands and I just check its on their wrist along with their ID


 You have to check people's iD at gala bingo? That to make sure they are Oap's?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> You have to check people's iD at gala bingo? That to make sure they are Oap's?


 Got to be over 65 to claim the free cup of tea and custard cream


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> Got to be over 65 to claim the free cup of tea and custard cream


 f**kers keep on top of that then bro, you catch any 50 - 65's going for free tea custard creams give them a dig from me.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

I'm up to 160kg squats and when squatting and I come back up my knees hurt a bit for a second - should i look into getting knee wraps?


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## RedStar (Aug 8, 2014)

drwae said:


> I'm up to 160kg squats and when squatting and I come back up my knees hurt a bit for a second - should i look into getting knee wraps?


 Use sleeves - just single or double ply.

Knee wraps are probably better served for heavier weight. They're also a lot harder to use than most would imagine.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> I'm up to 160kg squats and when squatting and I come back up my knees hurt a bit for a second - should i look into getting knee wraps?


 are you hitting depth? 
are your knees tracking properly? 
are your knees shooting too far forward of your foot?
is your stance width consistent and right for your body shape?

get a vid up if you want second opinions on this

there is no reason you should* need *something on your knee 
knees are meant to be able to flex under load

the BPU is a powerlifting fed in the UK that has people squatting bare knee with their 1RMs with no issues


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> are you hitting depth?
> are your knees tracking properly?
> are your knees shooting too far forward of your foot?
> is your stance width consistent and right for your body shape?
> ...


 This,

most likely an issue with form, probably something that you haven't even realised your doing.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

swole troll said:


> are you hitting depth?
> are your knees tracking properly?
> are your knees shooting too far forward of your foot?
> is your stance width consistent and right for your body shape?
> ...


 I will keep an eye on my form as its not every session, so maybe its something i'm not doing all the time which is bad


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

drwae said:


> I will keep an eye on my form as its not every session, so maybe its something i'm not doing all the time which is bad


 Worth doing mate

Your knees can take as much as your muscles will ever be able to (assuming you don't have a medical condition)

Even if you want to keep it for yourself it's worth filming from a few diff angles on a few sets to see if you're really keeping everything tight, knees arnt caving, you're hitting depth, no exceissve forward knee travel ect


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

drwae said:


> its definitely partly fat as its not nearly as bad when I'm leaner, like before my current bulk I was 8-10kg less than i am now and it wasn't as bad
> 
> But still noticeable, think I'm going to get the surgery
> 
> ...


 @Gary29 your student has become the Master

@drwae on a serious note, great effort on that initial weight loss, mate. Don't undo that great work with sausage fcking rolls!!


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

PSevens2017 said:


> @Gary29 your student has become the Master
> 
> @drwae on a serious note, great effort on that initial weight loss, mate. Don't undo that great work with sausage fcking rolls!!


 What a fu**ing slag!


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

My cycle finishes in 2 weeks and ill stop bulking at that point

Is it bad to go straight to cutting, will i lose muscle if i do that?

Happy with how this has gone, I've hit all my goals with the weights

Current strengths:

160kg squat for reps

185kg deadlift for reps

100kg bench for reps

60kg shoulder press for reps

This is all with proper rom too, bum below the knees on squats, touch the bar on chest on bench but dont bounce it, all the way back down below the chin on shoulder press ... more than i can say for 90% of the people training at my gym

I'm just hoping I will look good once I cut down and maybe get gyno surgery :lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

drwae said:


> My cycle finishes in 2 weeks and ill stop bulking at that point
> 
> Is it bad to go straight to cutting, will i lose muscle if i do that?
> 
> ...


 I take it your going to cruise? You will be fine cutting on your cruise dose, no need for loads of drugs when cutting a little test be fine.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> I take it your going to cruise? You will be fine cutting on your cruise dose, no need for loads of drugs when cutting a little test be fine.


 Yes just 0.5ml or 1ml of test a week. But eating at maintenance for a few weeks before cutting is broscience or really prevents muscle loss?


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> Yes just 0.5ml or 1ml of test a week. But eating at maintenance for a few weeks before cutting is broscience or really prevents muscle loss?


 It will depend how severe your cut is but personally I like to keep cals the same or a very small deficit into a slower cut, this helps to retain strength and sometimes continue to see an increase in strength this way.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

drwae said:


> Yeah a little I've struggled with gyno since i was a teenager I got up to 120kg pure fat and got gyno. Ive been taking either raloxifene or nolva non stop for almost 2 years and its reduced it but it looks like im going to have to save up for surgery


 You actually got any hard lumps? It could just be estrogen induced fat storage from being fat and estrogen rich


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

I am having to take a month off due to holiday im going to morocco theres no gym so I'm hoping I dont lose too much size and when I get back to uk ill get back too training and start a cut to get to 10% bf


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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

drwae said:


> im going to morocco theres no gym


 Google says there are 20 gyms lol

Enjoy your time off mate and don't get fat


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

drwae said:


> I am having to take a month off due to holiday im going to morocco theres no gym so I'm hoping I dont lose too much size and when I get back to uk ill get back too training and start a cut to get to 10% bf


 Enjoy your queue at the airport


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

drwae said:


> I am having to take a month off due to holiday im going to morocco theres no gym so I'm hoping I dont lose too much size and when I get back to uk ill get back too training and start a cut to get to 10% bf


 You can do a modified workout with your suitcase/back pack (whatever you're carrying your clothes in) if you still want to stimulate muscle growth, even if it's with lighter a weight or maybe hit a swimming pool for lengths.

I'm also sure you could find the odd gym to train in if you really wanted to train. You could get up an hour or two earlier while your girlfriend is still asleep (that's if you're going away with her).

If not, enjoy your holiday, Doctor. Don't be hitting shirtless double bicep poses or you might end up in a Moroccan jail.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

PSevens2017 said:


> You can do a modified workout with your suitcase/back pack (whatever you're carrying your clothes in) if you still want to stimulate muscle growth, even if it's with lighter a weight or maybe hit a swimming pool for lengths.
> 
> I'm also sure you could find the odd gym to train in if you really wanted to train. You could get up an hour or two earlier while your girlfriend is still asleep (that's if you're going away with her).
> 
> If not, enjoy your holiday, Doctor. Don't be hitting shirtless double bicep poses or you might end up in a Moroccan jail.


 I'll definitely do swimming when I'm away and try to keep that up when I get back

I've also started doing boxing at home but don't think I can do that when I'm away


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

drwae said:


> I'll definitely do swimming when I'm away and try to keep that up when I get back
> 
> I've also started doing boxing at home but *don't think I can do that when I'm away*


 You can do anything you want...... you're the Doctor! Plus, a member of UKM!


----------

