# Intermittment Fasting - Training with BCAA'S



## sidewinder1508 (Oct 23, 2010)

Hi Guys

Just a quick one I am going to give IF a go after reading up on it on Lean Gains. It says if you train fasted which I will be today, take BCAA's. I have Xtend so I am wondering how many scoops I take before training. Also is Xtend ok to take as it does contain calories so does it "break the fast"

Thanks in advance


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## sidewinder1508 (Oct 23, 2010)

Anyone??


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## gaz74 (Jun 28, 2011)

Well iv been on IF for 6 weeks and take 10g bcaa 10-15 mins before my fasted workout,then rather that taking 10g after i work out i take half whey protein shake instead.

i work out at 9 return at 10 then eat at 11,depending on when you eat i think it recommends you take 10g before ,after then every hour until you break the fast.

btw iv lost 15 pounds doing it this way.

hope this helps


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## Exilejoe#75 (Mar 31, 2009)

I trained at 6:30am so would make a drink with about 30g in it, drink half before then sip the rest till lunchtime. I used my protein bcaa which is disgusting but mix it with something like lime squash few ice cubes and its not too bad.


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

I train at 7am so take 10g BCAA's on the way to the gym, 10g afterwards (both mixed with some HMB, Creatine, Beta Alanine) and then take 10g every 2 hours until 12 when I eat my first meal.

BCAAs do contain some calories but they are very low so it doesn't technically break the fast. The benefit of taking them in terms of preventing muscle wasting is far more than the down sides of a few calories before your first meal.

Good luck with it, it's working well for me. Lost 7 pounds in 4 weeks but my strength is still increasing!


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## eggmaster (Jan 22, 2009)

I would recommend Modern BCAA from USPLabs. Does the job as well as other BCAAs and tastes great.


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## sidewinder1508 (Oct 23, 2010)

Do u eat clean all the time or do you indulge a bit more. I have found its quite easy to binge but i still stay within my calories.


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## Exilejoe#75 (Mar 31, 2009)

I often found i was way under the calories i needed/expected to have and often didnt feel hungry, so you need to pick your meals wisely to get your macros. I always feel bad after any junk food so just avoid it most of the time.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

IF is a great tool, I even train without bcaas a lot of the time dependant on how far I am from my first meal. Your muscles won't drop off! I reckon it's more of a mind easer. Half scoop of whey is fine instead aswell! Good luck with leangains it's definitely another weapon in the fight to burn fat!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Intermittant fasting is a very healthy way to go about things... very natural approach to exercise and eating. Is not optimal for building muscle, but still very possible to do so on IF and a good healthy way to do it.

For peri workout BCAAs, minimum 3g before and again after - this is the smallest amount that will do the anabolic signalling you are after. More is fine and optimal.

My preference is to take 10-15g EEAs though, but to add an extra 5g BCAA and drink half before the workout and sip the rest through the session.


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

Dtlv74 said:


> Intermittant fasting is a very healthy way to go about things... very natural approach to exercise and eating. Is not optimal for building muscle, but still very possible to do so on IF and a good healthy way to do it.
> 
> For peri workout BCAAs, minimum 3g before and again after - this is the smallest amount that will do the anabolic signalling you are after. More is fine and optimal.
> 
> My preference is to take 10-15g EEAs though, but to add an extra 5g BCAA and drink half before the workout and sip the rest through the session.


Any reason it is not optimal for building muscle, scientifically speaking?


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## sidewinder1508 (Oct 23, 2010)

its only this week I was doing fasted training as I was off work - im back next week doing the standard 9-5. I will fast until 1 have a small meal then. I will eat again at 5ish and train at 6ish then big meal at 7:30-8 then start again.


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Out of curiosity, can the period of eating be at anytime of the day? Or is it specifically in the evening etc.?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Rekless said:


> Any reason it is not optimal for building muscle, scientifically speaking?


Down regulation of the mTOR pathway (one of the main and most important signalling pathways for skeletal muscle anabolism) has been demonstrated in IF trails on healthy humans (http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1244.full#ref-14).

There's no extra protein catabolism with IF compared to normal calorie restricted diets, but the comparative decrease in mTOR suggests less signalling for new muscle growth in response to exercise.

BCAAs might counter this though to a degree as bumping up mTOR is the main benefit of BCAAs, but no idea if they would bump it back up enough to nulify the difference.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Yo Dtlv74,

I know this is not anything to do with IF, but it can be implemented in it. And so maybe help counter potential down regulation of the mTOR pathway.

I may be way off the mark, but, the studies are interesting nevertheless - If you haven't seen them already 

First is in older healthy adults:



Pubmed.gov said:


> BACKGROUND:
> 
> Loss of muscle mass with aging is a major public health concern. Omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids stimulate protein anabolism in animals and might therefore be useful for the treatment of sarcopenia. However, the effect of omega-3 fatty acids on human protein metabolism is unknown.
> 
> ...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21159787

Second in healthy young and middle age men and women:



Pubmed.gov said:


> Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids augment the muscle protein anabolic response to hyperinsulinaemia-hyperaminoacidaemia in healthy young and middle-aged men and women.
> 
> Smith GI, Atherton P, Reeds DN, Mohammed BS, Rankin D, Rennie MJ, Mittendorfer B.
> 
> ...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21501117


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Greenspin said:


> Yo Dtlv74,
> 
> I know this is not anything to do with IF, but it can be implemented in it. And so maybe help counter potential down regulation of the mTOR pathway.
> 
> I may be way off the mark, but, the studies are interesting nevertheless - If you haven't seen them already


Nice post. Yep seen those or simialr before, btu always happy to see them posted and given a chance to comment on this as I think it's important - I would always strongly advocate bumping up omega 3 and getting the omega 6/omega 3 balance close to the optimum 3.1 ratio...as I know you know, most people have a ratio of about 11.1, or even more omega 6 and even less omega 3... this incorrect balance creates a pro inflammatory state which interferes with a lot of processes including protein synthesis, and is one of the main negatives of the modern western diet.

While I have no clue if it would alter mTOR regulation in IF, I am pretty certain it would only be a good thing to get omega 3/6 ratios right anyway... and it kind of makes sense with the ideology behind IF too as IF is an attempt to roughly mimic how early humans ate, and early humans had omega 6/3 ratios that were much closer to 3.1, and in some gegraphic areas estimated to be 1.1.


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## Brotein (Mar 22, 2010)

engllishboy said:


> Out of curiosity, can the period of eating be at anytime of the day? Or is it specifically in the evening etc.?


Your 8 hour window can be whatever time you want it, fit the diet around you not you around the diet..



fatmanstan! said:


> IF is a great tool, I even train without bcaas a lot of the time dependant on how far I am from my first meal. Your muscles won't drop off! I reckon it's more of a mind easer. Half scoop of whey is fine instead aswell! Good luck with leangains it's definitely another weapon in the fight to burn fat!





gaz74 said:


> Well iv been on IF for 6 weeks and take 10g bcaa 10-15 mins before my fasted workout,then rather that taking 10g after i work out i take half whey protein shake instead.
> 
> i work out at 9 return at 10 then eat at 11,depending on when you eat i think it recommends you take 10g before ,after then every hour until you break the fast.
> 
> ...


Guys whey protein will break the fast, the benefit of taking BCAA's is that they are metabolised in the muscle itself not in the stomach so they do not affect fasting.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Brotein said:


> Guys whey protein will break the fast, the benefit of taking BCAA's is that they are metabolised in the muscle itself not in the stomach so they do not affect fasting.


Martin does say a small whey shake can be used if necessary. And that is if you are following Leangains approach. But, IF - if mainly being used to help with keeping in your kilocalorie allowance, by means of a small feeding window - can use what ever, pre/intra/post w/o, IMO.

If a shake works, and results in a better w/o, then so be it...


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