# Which of the British lads is gonna do the most damage in the next few years?



## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Out of the current SHW competitors?

For me, it just has to be Zack Khan. Ever since I first saw him I thought he had so much potential. I don't want to name names or criticise his competitors, but out of the other SHWs I can see Zack going the furthest. He's 29, roughly the same age as Phil Heath, except has him quite significantly outmassed. Of course mass isn't the only thing you need, and he has to work on his conditioning, bring his back up so that it isn't dwarfed by his arms and delts, bring his legs up etc, but his shape, his mass etc seems like it could do the best in higher level competitions IF he steps up his game.

So I'll be routing for Zack Khan in the next few UKBFF shows he competes in. I'm not saying I think he will win, but I'd certainly like him to, and if he pulls out his A-game over the next few years I think he could be a force to be reckoned with in the states.

Are you a Khan man? A Small man? A Ball supporter? A Core whore?


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## veritas (May 2, 2008)

Each of the SHW you mention has the opportunity of carrying of the class title. I take exception to Stu being referred to a "whore" even in jest. The guy is giving up a lot of his time to share his training and diet technique with us.

In the HW I'd say Shaun Tavernier


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

He wasn't referring to Stuart Core as a whore. Tut.


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## The_Kernal (Apr 5, 2008)

I like Dave Titterton but he needs a year off to monsterise him self..!


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

stuart core all the way


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## The_Kernal (Apr 5, 2008)

I like Stuart and Zak bur Dace is a Mate so obviously i got his back..!


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## The_Kernal (Apr 5, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> me in 2 years, watch this space


ALPHA SHW..?

TELL ME MORE..?


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

im going with dutch


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

dutch_scott said:


> me in 2 years, watch this space


I would have to agree, but then I am helping you


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

On a more serious note, I think what will really matter is how much these guys put themselves out there.

You need to get noticed in the crowd and its no good hiding away or not making yourself available for photoshoots etc.

Personally when Im in show condition I will be getting every photgrapher I know to take photos and try to get articles in mags.

If you can do this enough then you have a better chance of making it in the sea of pros out there.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

veritas said:


> Each of the SHW you mention has the opportunity of carrying of the class title. I take exception to Stu being referred to a "whore" even in jest. The guy is giving up a lot of his time to share his training and diet technique with us.
> 
> In the HW I'd say Shaun Tavernier


Erm I wasn't calling Stuart Core a whore. I was jokingly referring to his supporters as "whores" because it rhymes with his surname. By your logic I would be calling Daz Ball a "supporter" as well. Red it properly next time mate, I'm not having a dig at anyone, let alone Stuart.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> On a more serious note, I think what will really matter is how much these guys put themselves out there.
> 
> You need to get noticed in the crowd and its no good hiding away or not making yourself available for photoshoots etc.
> 
> ...


This is a very good point. There are very very few "official" pictures (IE pics taken by professionals) of the British competitors. There's gonna be loads of Flex Lewis now that he's gone to the US, but if you google image "Zack Khan" or "Daz Ball" fcuk all comes up. Are muscle mags as big a thing over here as they are in the US though?


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## 50kg (Sep 1, 2007)

Wether you like it or not, wether you like the mass monsters or the more asthestic looking physiques, at the moment there are only going to be a few guys from here that will do damage in the pro ranks, and that is of course Flex, James and Shaun.

The only guy that can truly cause a stir in the super heavies/open class is Zack, and that's if he gets it together.

Alvin, stuart, Daz and the rest all have good potential but are not world class.

Alvin, not enough condition, better at the Arnolds but still not good enough, and needs to work more on shaping.

Daz, all the condition you need for a big and for me he is the guy that has done the best with his physique so far.

Lets face it, Daz isnt blessed with the best shape or the most pleasing body parts and his waist is to big. But props to Daz, he has done what he has to do.

Zak, when potential was given out, he took it all, but so far hasnt forfilled his destiny, and is by far the most under achieved bodybuilder so far.

If Zak doesnt win it in the next two years, he should just forget it. Condition as we all know has been what Zak is missing.

Stuart core, Not great legs and condition needs to be harder, especially from the back.

You can speak about Dave Titterton all you like, but he often goes missing in amongst these guys, so dave also needs to do shine through and add that mass on pretty quick, or what ever it is he is missing.

Dave also has a great shape.

What I have said may sound harsh, but I more than anyone wants these guys to do well, so lets not cry about it.

I feel the pro card will go to a heavy or a light heavy, it the heavy weight dont up their game.

We are producing some good 202 lbs competitors at the moment, but no one in the super heavies, now hopefully its only a matter of time before we do.

Funding/money needs to start getting through to bodybuilding here in this country, as we all know we compete for the love of it, but other countries take it much more seriously than we do.

Some of our federation treat us like sh*t and we deserve a lot more respect for keeping the sport alive in this country, its hard to take up the sport of bodybuilding when you have a family to feed and bills to pay.

Often enough I feel that these are some of the reasons why we haven't had someone flying the flag on the olympia stage for some time (Apart from not having a big enough gene pool)

But back to the point in question, If we are talking about the super heavy weights, NO, we dont have any super heavy weight at the moment good enough to compete with the best in the world.

I have seen some good up and coming juniors, so lets hope some of them get good oportunities.

Now, having said this, I would like to be proved wrong!!!


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## Jake H (Oct 31, 2008)

zack khan without a doubt.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

50kg said:


> Wether you like it or not, wether you like the mass monsters or the more asthestic looking physiques, at the moment there are only going to be a few guys from here that will do damage in the pro ranks, and that is of course Flex, James and Shaun.


when Shaun gets his Pro card then this statement can be made....



50kg said:


> The only guy that can truly cause a stir in the super heavies/open class is Zack, and that's if he gets it together.
> 
> Alvin, stuart, Daz and the rest all have good potential but are not world class..


now i like Zack and if he brings he will be hard to beat but even Zack knows he has not brought it on the day for some time......

50kg you saying Alvin/Stuart and Daz are not world class in my opinion is disrespectful to all three yet you say Shaun will do damage?

the issue i have with all this talk when people put Zack up against the current Pro's then in the same breath say "he only has to get his condition bang on" Zack has to find the right plan to get his condition bang on one time just to win his class then he has to win the overall then if and when he steps on a Pro stage he needs to get it bang on again then and only then can you compare him to a Pro.....to actually say he out-masses Phil heath is laughable......they are not even in the same league....mass on its own means nothing if this was the case neither James L or Flex would be Pro's.....

we have a good crop of SHW in this country and out of those mentioned all could be a Pro and Stand tall on a Pro stage, yes all of them need to improve in certain areas but this is Bodybuilding and improving is the name of the game....lets wait until they actually win there Pro card before we start talking about having them win their first Pro show...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> I would have to agree, but then I am helping you


 weird seeing as he has asked me to prep him next year??


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## 50kg (Sep 1, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> when Shaun gets his Pro card then this statement can be made....
> 
> now i like Zack and if he brings he will be hard to beat but even Zack knows he has not brought it on the day for some time......
> 
> ...


Flex, Shaun, and James will do damage Paul, in their respective divisions. Now as I said I dont want anyone to cry about it, its just an observation and my opinion.

If you put them in an open weight class, then no, they probably wont do so well.

Now we are talking about the super heavy weights, and I was not disrespecting anybody, as I said, me more than anyone wants them all to do great.

Now as I pointed out earlier, these are the areas where I feel they need to improve.


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## Cap'n Beefy (Nov 16, 2008)

I said it last October, and I'll say it again now, I think Barny Duplessis is gonna get his due recognition one of these days. :thumb:

I hear he is looking monstrous at the moment. And he is aesthetically bang on IMO. Shaun was lucky last year (no disrespect to the fella), I didn't think the light heavies was a clear win at all.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

dutch_scott said:


> off season paul..
> 
> nice point about the multi loggins, i love a proven bust!!! lol:whistling:


thats you fukced then all my hard work gone to waste 



50kg said:


> Flex, Shaun, and James will do damage Paul, in their respective divisions. Now as I said I dont want anyone to cry about it, its just an observation and my opinion.


why would anyone cry about this?? i love all 3 of these guys and wish nothing more for them to be successful i was just pointing out Shaun is not a Pro yet so cannot be spoken as one......and they are all in the same division as you know 



50kg said:


> Now we are talking about the super heavy weights, and I was not disrespecting anybody, as I said, me more than anyone wants them all to do great.


sorry mate but you was by calling them not world class but hey you have your opinion i have mine and all 3 of these guys are world class.....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

> I said it last October, and I'll say it again now, I think Barny Duplessis is gonna get his due recognition one of these days. :thumb:
> 
> I hear he is looking monstrous at the moment. And he is aesthetically bang on IMO. Shaun was lucky last year (no disrespect to the fella), I didn't think the light heavies was a clear win at all.


Barny has improved massively and in my opinion very unlucky to keep coming against guys like Flex(07) and Shaun last year...

i would not agree that Shaun was lucky i think he deserved to win i just don't think in the daytime he was at his best.....

Although this year i think Barny should leave the head stands for the bedroom and not the stage :whistling:

i do think that Barny gets overlooked and i think this will come back and bite someone in the Ass one day....


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## samsham1 (Aug 19, 2007)

i totally agree with everything you say 50kg apart from comparing zack to phil heath which is absoluteley ridiculous as he is no where near phil heath at all....

And another thing i can not understand is how someone can be considered world class when they havent even won there own national title...regardless of how good these guys are...to me world class would be the elite in their sport i.e. phil heath, wolf, etc

i honestly believe with forums like this there is far too much **** licking and praise when infact its not warrented. and that is where i totally agree with your post 50kg because you have told it how it is. and every point you made is valid.....


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

There are a few UK guys who are World class, it's just that here we only give out one pro card per annum so only one gets a shot per year. The guys 50kg says are not world class all are, and if you come along to Body Power I will demonstrate this to you - in the flesh.

Paul and Tom - make great points here. Like Tom says, it's about getting your name out there.

James Llewellin - is World class and I see him doing some damage in the World scene in 2010 and beyond - he has my full support in any way I can help him (see you Monday mate [  ])

Then of course, I'm predictably going to single out Daz Ball - of course he's going to do some damage. I'm have to be a complete brain dead moron not to invest the time and money I am in the guy if I didn't have unreserved confidence in him. If you meet him, chat with him, train with him or see him - I promise you too will be convinced. I know James L is too. Daz will be making huge waves on the World circuit in the next few years.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

I too prefer Zack's physique to Phil Heath's. So I'm being absolutely ridiculous? Of course I'm not. It's just my opinion.

Conditioning-wise of course Heath is better at competition time but when did someone's physique suddenly become 'better' than someone else's just because they are more sliced? Sure on stage it's important but for me aesthetic appeal, balance, size, shape and all that other good stuff is where it counts and Zack has all of that in spades.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

samsham1 said:


> i honestly believe with forums like this there is far too much **** licking and praise when infact its not warrented. and that is where i totally agree with your post 50kg because you have told it how it is. and every point you made is valid.....


totally disagree these forums are for debate you have your opinion i have mine which differs from many other opinions.....you say you agree with every point 50kg makes but he says Zack is world class you say he cannot be if he has not won his national title this confuses me about your post....



defdaz said:


> I too prefer Zack's physique to Phil Heath's. So I'm being absolutely ridiculous? Of course I'm not. It's just my opinion.
> 
> Conditioning-wise of course Heath is better at competition time but when did someone's physique suddenly become 'better' than someone else's just because they are more sliced? Sure on stage it's important but for me aesthetic appeal, balance, size, shape and all that other good stuff is where it counts and Zack has all of that in spades.


Daz, Heath is better on more fronts than just condition....you cannot even begin to tell me Zack is more aesthetically pleasing than Phil Heath a guy who placed top 5 at the Mr O come on mate be real...

Zack has got a great physique and will go far i am sure once he gets his card but he has to get it first.....then and only then when he stands on a stage next to these Pro's he can be compared......


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## matt p (May 11, 2006)

Zack is a monster,no doubt and i would love for him to turn pro and represent the UK if he came in dry and shredded.

But in my own opinion my two favourite SHW's are Dave Titterton and Stuart Core.

Both have an awesome frame, shape and flow to their physiques.

If these boys got their pro card i feel they could well do some damage, either way i am looking forward to this years Brits!


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## samsham1 (Aug 19, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> totally disagree these forums are for debate you have your opinion i have mine which differs from many other opinions.....you say you agree with every point 50kg makes but he says Zack is world class you say he cannot be if he has not won his national title this confuses me about your post....
> 
> i think you should re-read my post more carefully. i pointed out kahn is class but cant be compared to people like heath


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i do not need to re-read your post i read it correctly the first time.....

50kg has said that Zack was world class and non of the other 3(Alvin/Stuart/Daz) where not.....well he said this before he changed his post 

you then said this



samsham1 said:


> And another thing i can not understand is how someone can be considered world class when they havent even won there own national title........


but then in the same post said the quote below



samsham1 said:


> i totally agree with your post 50kg because you have told it how it is. and *every point* you made is valid.....


this gives the impression you actually agree with every point 50kg has made this is where your post is confusing...


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

I'll probs get shouted down for this, but I can agree with at least one of the points 50kg is making. I think that Zack is the only one of those mentioned who has the potential to become world class. By that, I mean his shape and his mass have pro written all over them. However, his ability to get into condition doesn't. I know Paul will say (and in fact did say earlier) that it's stupid to say that "all he needs to do is get into condition" as this is a vital aspect of competition, and if he can't even do it once, then he's never going to be a pro. I fully accept this, but all I'm saying is, I do believe that Zack has the most potential and yes, is the only one who can ever truly become world class. I'll most likely eat my words, but he's the only one who amazes me right now, regardless of his sloppy condition.

At least he's consistent with his mass lol, which Daz isn't, though he has apparently recognised this and gained his previous mass back.


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

All these guys mentioned on here are top quality bodybuiders...end of !!

I dont think its fair to say this guy needs more,back,legs etc etc.

Fcuk me,you could always pick fault with anybodys physique if you wanted,thats the reason we all train hard and try to improve and do the best with what we have got.

I must say Sham and 50kg..you are entitled to your own opinions which is absolutly fine,but i always seem to find for some strange reason guys who talk smack about other bodybuilders NEVER seem to show themselves in the avatar.......just my opinion by the way


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

pea head said:


> All these guys mentioned on here are top quality bodybuiders...end of !!
> 
> I dont think its fair to say this guy needs more,back,legs etc etc.
> 
> ...


Last point is a fair one mate, but you have to understand that on a bodybuilding board we are allowed to critique high level bodybuilders' physiques to the finest detail. That's a large aspect of these boards; you do not have to look like Arnold to criticise his physique, so whereas it wouldn't be fair for me to go into Con's journal and start critiquing his physique, I think that once you get to a certain level (high level national/ international) then it becomes OK for your physique to be commented on on forums such as this. Obviously we should keep it polite and friendly and not be rude about people's physiques, but discussion of pro physiques is what this section is all about IMO.

Daz Ball has a large waist. As does Jay Cutler. These are my opinions, but they are high level bodybuilders, so there's no harm in saying it, even if my waist is wider. If you were to critique Ronnie's atrophying lat, it doesn't mean your lat is bigger. I find it nonsensical when people think you have to look like Ronnie to critique Ronnie, so IMO it is fair to say so and so needs more back, legs etc, when they get to a certain level of recognition.


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

AlasTTTair said:


> At least he's consistent with his mass lol, which Daz isn't, though he has apparently recognised this and gained his previous mass back.


Darren has the potential to be World class - all he needs is the opportunity.

If you're referring to his smaller size at the 2008 Finals, then sure he was smaller, but he adopted a different strategy on advice from someone else. He still took second though, only beaten by an incredible show by Alvin. He knew this was not ideal, and our approach this year, is not that far removed from his 2007 approach, except now we know how to get that little bit sharper still - so 2009 will = 2007 + 2008


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

pea head said:


> All these guys mentioned on here are top quality bodybuiders...end of !!
> 
> I dont think its fair to say this guy needs more,back,legs etc etc.
> 
> ...


Agree with your first bit, but not your last. On the net, people have the right to anonimity, and even if they are built like a stick insect, so what? They still have eyes and an opinion.

(Not that I agree with 50kg at all in this topic, mind)


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> Last point is a fair one mate, but you have to understand that on a bodybuilding board we are allowed to critique high level bodybuilders' physiques to the finest detail. That's a large aspect of these boards; you do not have to look like Arnold to criticise his physique, so whereas it wouldn't be fair for me to go into Con's journal and start critiquing his physique, I.


 Well i believe you just have by dragging my name into this debate, cheers for that

Btw it is not the same as you coming into my log and saying whats wrong with my body because if that was true you would go onto lets say a top guys log perhaps pro Guy Cisterino on MD for instance and tell him exactly what is wrong with his body but no you would not do that. If any thing you would create a seperate thread and hate there or you would go into other threads and do your internet warrior bit.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

I really do Paul! 










As far as I'm concerned Zack's got no real weaknesses other than not getting flipping ripped enough. Oh and someone needs to tell him how to pose his legs. 

Look at Heath compared to Kahn and you'll see how narrow Heath's torso is - his pecs and traps etc. are all really bunched up and for me ruins his overall aesthetic appeal. Nothing he can do about it other than keep increasing the size of his delts I guess. His calves are crap too. Don't get me wrong, I'm a massive fan of Phil Heath but Kahn's physique... blimey.


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## Paul1990 (May 6, 2007)

'I'm a massive fan of Phil Heath but Kahn's physique... blimey' i think zack is a great bodybuilder but you can't believe that zacks physique has more of a wow factor than phill heath.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Paul1990 said:


> 'I'm a massive fan of Phil Heath but Kahn's physique... blimey' i think zack is a great bodybuilder but you can't believe that zacks physique has more of a wow factor than phill heath.


'but you can't believe...'

Eh?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

AlasTTTair said:


> I do believe that Zack has the most potential and yes, is the only one who can ever truly become world class. I'll most likely eat my words, but he's the only one who amazes me right now, regardless of his sloppy condition.


please do not think for one moment i do not realise the potential Zack has i have said many times that if Zack nails it he will become a Pro BUT you have to look at the cold hard facts he has not nailed it for the last 5yrs at least........i do think that now he has joined forces with Neil Hill he could realise his potential.......the part of all this i do disagree with is saying the other 3 contenders Stuart, Daz and Alvin are not world class.......and the fact that some are comparing Zack to established Pro's i know Zack and i am damn sure he would be the first to tell those guys to shut the fukc up and get real....



AlasTTTair said:


> At least he's consistent with his mass lol, which Daz isn't, though he has apparently recognised this and gained his previous mass back.


actually he was much smaller in 2007 to what he was in 2006 and 2008.....but as i said before size is not everything....



defdaz said:


> I really do Paul!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you say no real weakness other than not getting in condition yet this is the biggest weakness you can have, big named bodybuilders have won high profile shows when having torn muscles but they are in condition just look at dorian at the end of his career a torn bicep and iffy looking tricep yet his conditon was the best in the show and he beat guys who where complete with worse condition......

but i still don't see how you can comapre Zack to Phil....


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

When a superheavy can come in with great shape (at say height of 5ft 10-5ft 11, usual height for superheavies) and a narrow waist, in condition at 240-245 lbs then he will have the potential to make a great pro.

Levrone 5ft 10, turned pro at 242 lbs

Wheeler 5ft 10, turned pro at 235 lbs

Martinez 5ft 9, turned pro at 236 lbs

Heath 5ft 9, turned pro at 220 lbs

Centopani 5ft 11, turned pro at 243 lbs

Dennis newman 5ft 11, turned pro at 242 lbs

Ronnie coleman 5ft 11, turned pro at 238 lbs

Can anyone see the trend between the height and weight of all these pro's (when they first turned pro).


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Heath is just amazing imo...met and spoke to him at length last year....what a gent and a future mr o without doubt imo....


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Robsta said:


> Heath is just amazing imo...met and spoke to him at length last year....what a gent and a future mr o without doubt imo....


Absolutely, he does have a cracking physique. I think he's progressed more quickly than just about anyone I've seen. It's his very soon, if not this year IMHO.


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## samsham1 (Aug 19, 2007)

i would like to apologise to Pscarb, i didnt read 50kg properley and i now only agree with all the points he makes apart from the one calling zack "world class" as i believe zack cant be world class until he has nailed his condition and should be classed the same as alvin, stu and daz as "elite british bodybuilders" but defo not "world class".

it would be like saying wolves fc are world class because they are top of the football championship, when in fact they are not, because there is another level above i.e the premiership.. they are simply just the best team in that league.

pea head who is talking smack??? just because you have a picture of yourself in your avatar does this make you look good,big or better than anyone else???? clearly not and does this give your comments any more justification?


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Zack's going to look insane when (ok, if!) he gets shredded this year. Mark my words! 










I just prefer Zack's physique. Heath just looks too bunched up across the torso.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

defdaz said:


> Zack's going to look insane when (ok, if!) he gets shredded this year. Mark my words!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually think Heath looks a fair bit bigger than Zack there. Maybe it's not to scale. In fairness tho, paul is right, there's no contest atm.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

defdaz said:


> Zack's going to look insane when (ok, if!) he gets shredded this year. Mark my words!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Daz i like Zack's physique and as i have said many times when he gets it right everyone better watch out but these pictures here show there is more than just condition to seperate the two...heath has better muscle maturity this does come from constantly hitting it, the detail in his legs and Abs.....Heath is much lighter than Zack yet in this picture looks bigger he isn't but the illusion is what it is all about....

the same comparison was made on the MDforum and Zack himself went on and told them to stop talking fukcing stupid.....i have no doubt when he does get his card he will be on that pro stage giving it his all....by that time Heath will probably be Mr O....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

samsham1 said:


> i would like to apologise to Pscarb, i didnt read 50kg properley and i now only agree with all the points he makes apart from the one calling zack "world class" as i believe zack cant be world class until he has nailed his condition and should be classed the same as alvin, stu and daz as "elite british bodybuilders" but defo not "world class".


no problem mate.... :thumb:


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

samsham1 said:


> i would like to apologise to Pscarb, i didnt read 50kg properley and i now only agree with all the points he makes apart from the one calling zack "world class" as i believe zack cant be world class until he has nailed his condition and should be classed the same as alvin, stu and daz as "elite british bodybuilders" but defo not "world class".
> 
> it would be like saying wolves fc are world class because they are top of the football championship, when in fact they are not, because there is another level above i.e the premiership.. they are simply just the best team in that league.
> 
> pea head who is talking smack??? *just because you have a picture of yourself in your avatar does this make you look good,big or better than anyone else????* clearly not and does this give your comments any more justification?


First off mate,i never said i was,and like james said in another post it does not matter how big or good anybody is or what size they are to have an opinion.

Just let me state i was not directing my comments at anybody in particular.

I was trying to point out that a massive majority of folk who post things on here seem hardly to reveal themselves.

If people want to remain anonymous thats fine with me:thumbup1:.

Just my opinion.....like everybody else as one.


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## Ben Gingell (Mar 29, 2009)

hopefully me in 5 years time...!


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## Ben Gingell (Mar 29, 2009)

not sure why my pic hasnt been put on yet?


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## walks (Apr 13, 2007)

i dont know how you can keep comparing Zach and Phil heath.

Both great BBs but one is a fav for this years Olympia whereas the other is still an armature.

Even if Zach was ripped this year does anyone really think a 2009 ripped Zach would beat a 2009 ripped heath?


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

SJT imo, the dude is a genetic miricle, anyone whos seen him in person, will know what I mean. He trains like an animal, and has the determination to succeed, I have alot of respect for him.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Beans said:


> SJT imo, the dude is a genetic miricle, anyone whos seen him in person, will know what I mean. He trains like an animal, and has the determination to succeed, I have alot of respect for him.


Amen (er, assuming you mean Zack?)! :tongue: :beer:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Beans said:


> SJT imo, the dude is a genetic miricle, anyone whos seen him in person, will know what I mean. He trains like an animal, and has the determination to succeed, I have alot of respect for him.


totally agree mate but to be fair this can be said for Daz/Stuart and Alvin...

this type of post happens every year the only issue i have with it is it gets earlier, there has been only 2 qualifiers so far and 2 of the 4 we are raving about have not qualifed yet.....last year the big buzz was around Haraldos everyone saying how he was going to get his pro card and wipe the floor with the other Heavies.....that did not work out to plan did it....no one will really know the outcome until all these guys stand next to each other onstage....


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

defdaz said:


> Amen (er, assuming you mean Zack?)! :tongue: :beer:


I think he means sean tavernier mate.....


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

If the title is asking the question of what British lad is going to do the most damage in the next few years, then the answer has to be Flex Lewis, hands down. He already has his pro card and has already won his first pro show and gained 3rd spot at the 202 'O' last year, plus got 'rookie of the year' in 2008.

We then have other pro's like Lee Powell and John Hodgson; both will be competing for the first time in the 202's.

These 3 come first in my opinion, as they have already gained pro status.

If you then ask which amateur will do the most damage in the next few years, it all depends on what weight class winner gets the pro card.

Now we have the 202 class, middleweights and lightheavies can do far better far quicker than any heavy or super heavy because the competition in the open class is so fierce.

I wouldn't like to hazzard a guess at the overall champion this year (as I am helping a few potential winners) so my guess would be slightly biased.

We also have to remember that only Alvin Small, Daz Ball, Dave Talbot and Dean McTiernan have actually qualified so far, so my pick for a champion in the SHW would be out of Daz and Alvin because they have been UK Champions previously and already proved themselves.

Stuart and Zack are yet to qualify and it will be very interesting to see how Zack will cope competing, qualifying and peaking twice in a year, something he hasn't had to do for a good few years.

So the answer for me is James 'Flex' Lewis, hands down. He has already proved himself and the next few years will be even better for him.

J


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

excellant answer James and i totally agree on Flex the guy has proven himself more than once and will continue to do so especially when you look at his age


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> excellant answer James and i totally agree on Flex the guy has proven himself more than once and will continue to do so especially when you look at his age


People always forget about the smaller guys Paul, and 'Zackmania' just seems to get more boring every year. To even mention Zack and Phil Heath in the same sentence?!..... some people are disillusioned when they think this sport is just about mass.

J


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## MuscleButt (Feb 4, 2009)

maybe its because no one wants to pay to see small guys on stage, they wanna see big boys who are freaks. James i am sure people remember you, am sure you gonna make a great pro. Untill then Zackmania, daz mania and Core mania is where it is at!!!!!!!!


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## GM-20 (Feb 5, 2009)

MuscleButt said:


> maybe its because no one wants to pay to see small guys on stage, they wanna see big boys who are freaks. James i am sure people remember you, am sure you gonna make a great pro. Untill then Zackmania, daz mania and Core mania is where it is at!!!!!!!!


thats a tad disrespectful mate.

i for one look forward to see james make his pro debut next year. if shawn wins his pro card it would be amazing seing flex, james l and sean T all on the 202 stage beside the likes of david henry.

sure its great seeing the mass monsters like zack and daz and if zack comes shreded then he will be very hard to beat but in the past years both james L and flex have brought a more complete package and have been given the pro card based on this.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Robsta said:


> I think he means sean tavernier mate.....


Oh yeah I missed the SJT bit - thanks Robsta! Amen anyway, SJT is phenomenal. As are James and the pro's he/you mentioned, of course. :thumbup1:


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

supercell said:


> People always forget about the smaller guys Paul, and 'Zackmania' just seems to get more boring every year. To even mention Zack and Phil Heath in the same sentence?!..... some people are disillusioned when they think this sport is just about mass.
> 
> J


Seems like being a Zack Kahn fan is not allowed on this forum! :lol: My mistake! Did I mention how much I like Stuart Core's and Daz Ball's physiques!? :whistling:

I'm not sure anyone should be called disillusioned just because they have an opinion about who's physiques they prefer? Can't we all just respect each other? We're lifters not fighters, right?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

MuscleButt said:


> maybe its because no one wants to pay to see small guys on stage, they wanna see big boys who are freaks. James i am sure people remember you, am sure you gonna make a great pro. Untill then Zackmania, daz mania and Core mania is where it is at!!!!!!!!


people will remember James as he has all ready achieved his pro card the other 3 you mention have not......mass is great but alone it does not win shows this has been proven at the highest level (Dextor Jackson Mr O 2008) if you just want to see mass monsters go to a Power lifting show....



defdaz said:


> Seems like being a Zack Kahn fan is not allowed on this forum! :lol: My mistake! Did I mention how much I like Stuart Core's and Daz Ball's physiques!? :whistling:
> 
> I'm not sure anyone should be called disillusioned just because they have an opinion about who's physiques they prefer? Can't we all just respect each other? We're lifters not fighters, right?


it is not about being a zack fan i am a huge fan of his physique and i prep one of his rivals on stage, it's just some are talking as if he has a Pro card all ready when many do not seem to realise he has not hit his condition for many years and he came 4th last year....be a fan just be a little more realistic..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

supercell said:


> People always forget about the smaller guys Paul, and 'Zackmania' just seems to get more boring every year. To even mention Zack and Phil Heath in the same sentence?!..... some people are disillusioned when they think this sport is just about mass.
> 
> J


i am sure they do mate well until the smaller guy picked up the only Pro card given every year for the last 3


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

I like the big guys like Ronnie, Green and Heath as much as the Gaspari's, Labrada's and the Henry's of the world.

I agree that a lot of guys would rather pay to see the big guys, it just pains me so much that no UK amateur heavyweight can get in real shape except Daz.

Zack has great genetics, the guy is a true freak, however, without getting in shape he will never win the UK's let alone place in a pro show.

I, as much as anyone, want to see Stu, Daz, Zack, Alvin etc all bring it to the UK's this year cos if they all peak perfectly it will be the best superheavyweight line up in years.

However, Shaun T could well take it if he hits it spot on and that's at 5'2" and around 83kgs, around 40kgs lighter than these guys and yet again symetry and conditioning could win through and we will have yet another 202lb pro on the scene which lets face it, quite frankly, is boring! :tongue: :lol:

J


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

We must also remember that around 75% of all competitive bodybuilders are under 202lbs, which is now why the 202 class is becoming so popular. At the amateur Arnold this year the light heavies threw up 27 class physiques as opposed to the super heavies which just about broke double figures. These supersized conditioned athletes are a very rare breed indeed.

I was at the expo this year at the Arnold Classic and Flex had a longer queue at the Gaspari booth than Dexter had at his. The 202 is a phenominon and the yanks love it. These athletes show a physique which is much more attainable by the masses which is why it has such a following. We now have a class to shine in our own right. This has also been reflected by the IFBB now holding the 202 Olympia on the same stage as the Open class, such is the demand.

So in answer to your statement that people dont want to pay to see smaller guys...Nonsense...Sorry we'll have to agree to disagree

J


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

^^^^ totally agree with james here, although i love ronnie's, dorians, wolfs, wheeler and may fave levrone i must say that flex physique and james physique are amazing and the more i see of flex's physique the more i think it is becoming one of my all time favourites if i am honest.

I love bodybuilding as a whole and would be just as happy watching the 202 class as the heavier ones. All have amazing physiques and i personally dont see 1 being more popular than the other altho my show experience is limited to alot of peoples on here.


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

what about mike sheridan? i know shaun davis is now recovering....lee powell and john hodgson are awesome..


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Mike would be over 202lbs I believe. He might only be 5'4" or 5'5" but he packs a hell of a lot of muscle on his frame.

J


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

delhibuilder said:


> i know shaun davis is now recovering....


Shaun will never step on a stage again as a competitor


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> Shaun will never step on a stage again as a competitor


 :crying: .

i used to love seeing him on magazines for prolab almost a decade back, especially his triceps.


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

supercell said:


> Mike would be over 202lbs I believe. He might only be 5'4" or 5'5" but he packs a hell of a lot of muscle on his frame.
> 
> J


he did the arnold? a little while back,does he still compete? i havent seen his name around for a while, he was in a t.v. programme a few years back.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

delhibuilder said:


> :crying: .
> 
> i used to love seeing him on magazines for prolab almost a decade back, especially his triceps.


Shaun has just had a kidney transplant i believe



delhibuilder said:


> he did the arnold? a little while back,does he still compete? i havent seen his name around for a while, he was in a t.v. programme a few years back.


he competed in the Universe last year


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## martzee (Sep 11, 2007)

just caught hold of this thread,all i can say is muscle butt to truely know what bodybuilding is about you have to grasp the concept mate!! its not all about size and mass,and to say james will only be remembered until the mass monsters take over is absolute nonsence! for one james is not small(ok hes a little short lol,sorry mate lol) but pound for pound he is as big as any of the guys you have mentioned they simply weight more because of there hight,bodybuilding is about symetry,condition and mass(yes you may say boring but thats how it is and thats how its always been!) never has there been a mr o that has not had an abundance of all the above mentioned attributes! and never has anyone won on mass alone and who ever thinks they will is dilluded and needs to take a good look at what bodybuildings all about.

The art of illusion is what all the top guys have as well as genetics with the art of appearing even bigger that they truly are,not looking massive off stage or in the gym and then looking smooth and off on stage because they are to scared of leaving the scales at home and actually using the mirror to gauge progress.

As james and paul mentioned flex i think will do the most damage period as he has youth,genetics and determination on his side but dont rule out james,sean or any of the other top sh weights if they dial it in on the day producing some very good results for the uk! We have a superb group of very good uk bodybuilders at present both male and female and its an honour to get to compete against such a high standard,we should be routing for every uk athlete as a team as for the first time in ages we have quite a few competitors who in time could do some serious damage!!


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

^^^Good post mate and point well made. Funny that the good posts always seem to come from people that actually compete!!!

J


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

supercell said:


> ^^^Good post mate and point well made. Funny that the good posts always seem to come from people that actually compete!!!
> 
> J


Except Pscarb.


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

supercell said:


> ^^^Good post mate and point well made. Funny that the good posts always seem to come from people that actually compete!!!
> 
> J


Killer post. Hit the nail on the head.

Anyone who thinks *competitive* bodybuilding is all about mass should really sit back, take in all the fundamentals and observe some BB history.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> Except Pscarb.


c0ck


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> c0ck


Very concise:lol:

J


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## GHS (Oct 6, 2008)

Some great posts within this thread but James L hit it on the nail with his opening post.

I'm not going to comment on some of the stupid statements made in the thread.

We have a lot of talent within the SHW devision now and as far as I'm concerened it is an open race this year.

There are at least 4/5 that could take it.

GHS


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## laidlaw (Jun 21, 2006)

I have to say that Barny Duplessis last year was looking spot on for the British and I felt result didnt match the moment on that day for Barny.

Barny is and has proved to be one of the top bodybuilders in this country and will get that recognition.

He is looking huge and I am sure this year will bring him that recognition he deserves.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

laidlaw said:


> Barny is and has proved to be one of the top bodybuilders in this country and will get that recognition.
> 
> He is looking huge and I am sure this year will bring him that recognition he deserves.


to be fair Barny has the recognition as one of the top amatuer bodybuilders in the UK.....he has been unfortunate to keep coming up against slightly better guys on the day.......


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## martzee (Sep 11, 2007)

barny his day will come as long as he stops attempting the head stands!!!! lol,and james is correct in saying the best posts are form those who have competed or are competing,preperation,presentation and knowing how to present your self to your best abillity is an art and its an art that can only be achieved through trial and error and from COMPETING not just sat there saying i could do that or next yr i will compete,i think we will see some more very good guys breaking through this yr as they nail there prep,barny is a very good bodybuilder with great genetics and will no doubt do very well this yr once again,and i think Tom will also come through as a threat this yr from the pics i have seen correct me if im mistaken he has come down a weight and i think it suits him and will be hard to beat if he hits the stage 100%


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## daz ball (Jul 4, 2008)

hi i think it will be a great show i think we have so many world class bb on stage that it is hard to pick the winner. As for me in 2008 i did try something different and maybe a got it wrong but like i will say still got 2nd but this year i will get it right condition mass and very dry and thats see if it can be matched and if i lose fair play to the other guy or guys that beat me. As for some of the comments about bigger being better just check phils weight again it was in the low 220s thats what mass is about looking like a 270lbs guy. All the best to zack,alvin,big stu,barny,and shaun and to all the rest of the bb in the show hope all the fans enjoy thanks :thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

supercell said:


> If the title is asking the question of what British lad is going to do the most damage in the next few years, then the answer has to be Flex Lewis, hands down. He already has his pro card and has already won his first pro show and gained 3rd spot at the 202 'O' last year, plus got 'rookie of the year' in 2008.
> 
> We then have other pro's like Lee Powell and John Hodgson; both will be competing for the first time in the 202's.
> 
> ...


Quality post James.. You can tell your not short of carbs LOL

I've read through this post and am shocked someone can confidently compare Khan to Heath and say they think he looks better. I have seen both in real life and there is no comparison and Heath was off season when Khan wasn't.

ALSO, that photoshopped picture is just rediculous as the scale isn't correct, differrent lighting and so on. Stupid.

I personally think the pro card is Shaun Ts this year.


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

daz ball said:


> hi i think it will be a great show i think we have so many world class bb on stage that it is hard to pick the winner. As for me in 2008 i did try something different and maybe a got it wrong but like i will say still got 2nd but this year i will get it right condition mass and very dry and thats see if it can be matched and if i lose fair play to the other guy or guys that beat me. As for some of the comments about bigger being better just check phils weight again it was in the low 220s thats what mass is about looking like a 270lbs guy. All the best to zack,alvin,big stu,barny,and shaun and to all the rest of the bb in the show hope all the fans enjoy thanks :thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


Exactly. Bodybuilder is an illusion. If you have full muscle bellies, tiny waist and good bone structure you may only be 200lbs but you can look 250+.


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

daz ball said:


> hi i think it will be a great show i think we have so many world class bb on stage that it is hard to pick the winner. As for me in 2008 i did try something different and maybe a got it wrong but like i will say still got 2nd but this year i will get it right condition mass and very dry and thats see if it can be matched and if i lose fair play to the other guy or guys that beat me. As for some of the comments about bigger being better just check phils weight again it was in the low 220s thats what mass is about looking like a 270lbs guy. All the best to zack,alvin,big stu,barny,and shaun and to all the rest of the bb in the show hope all the fans enjoy thanks :thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


And I know those words from Daz are heartfelt, you wont meet a more down to earth, passionate and driven BBer in this country than Daz.

Wise words mate.

J


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

Littleluke said:


> Exactly. Bodybuilder is an illusion. If you have full muscle bellies, tiny waist and good bone structure you may only be 200lbs but you can look 250+.


quite right - the revese is true also you can be 230 and look 200 like me:whistling:


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