# Going Hypo on Lantus



## David Lloyd (Mar 22, 2006)

ive used Lantus before at 30iu's a day for about 10 weeks and dont think i went hypo once

however i just started using it this week and have been going hypo 2 - 3 times a day

i have dropped it down to 24iu's this morning and am still having issues with it

i am wondering if it is because i am using ghrp 6 and cjc in same jab in the am

do these two compounds affect insulin sensitivity?


----------



## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Are you talking about Lantus as in the 24 hour insulin?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

David Lloyd said:


> ive used Lantus before at 30iu's a day for about 10 weeks and dont think i went hypo once
> 
> if it is because i am using ghrp 6 and cjc in same jab in the am
> 
> do these two compounds affect insulin sensitivity?


Yes they do:

1. GH (which should be released, 15-20 mins makes you more insulin sensitive)

2. If you are using peptides properly, you are not eating carbs (or fats) 30min before or after pinning...

But also:

-is your cycle the same? your reposnse to insulin is increased on cycle.. more so with higher dosages.. (well it does for most people- have you measured you BG?)

More importantly, with me for example, when I first started using exogenous insulin, I could only take 2iu without carbs before feeling hypo (actrapid); after 4 weeks, I can take 4iu... so, you have last used 30iu, but with time of, you be more insulin senstive now.

the only way to tell, apart from "feeling hypo" is measuring you BG levels before/after meals and seeing how quickly your BG levels drop; Diabetics ALWAYS measure their BG levels, multiple times per day- why is it most BB's just go by "feel".... i recommend you graph your BG levels based on your carb intake to track your effective dosage, and clearance times of carbs.

My other question is, as a healthy person, why Lantus.... as taking lantus means your body will release less insulin, as the injected lantus will drop the BG level of any carbs you take in first....

I take actrapid (short acting), the reason is: your body releases insulin in a pulsatile manner, every 10-15min to drop your BG, so when carbing up, you could injest a carb meal and and then when you measure a drop in BG from the body released insulin, you can inject actrapid, and take in more carbs and move more nutrients to your muscle before your body's next pulse..


----------



## bigacb (Nov 13, 2007)

Personally i think you should start off at 15iu's and build up to 30iu's. Also GHRP-6 made me feel hypo anyway on its own. Have you used GHRP-6 and CJC before? I'd prob do the GHRP-6 upon waking then 15mins later add in the slin then eat. Do you feel hypo around the time of the GHRP-6 injection?


----------



## David Lloyd (Mar 22, 2006)

*GREENSPIN:* yes the long acting insulin

*BIGACB:* i have used GHRP 6 and CJC before yes and no didnt feel hypo on them at all

*AUSBUILT:* last time i used lantus i was off cycle, or just on 250mg test, this is the first time i have used it with a proper cycle

never heard of actrapid but i used to use humalog a lot - is it similar to this? wanted to give Lantus a try as i heard you can bulk up really quick from it.

i dont even know what BG stands for to be honest - i am guessing you mean blood sugar level, but cant think for the life of me what the "G" stands for?

i used 20iu's this morning and havent felt hypo today i dont think (well not too bad anyway) - mind you i have been eating every 2 - 2.5 hours

i realise you shouldnt inject the ghrp with carbs but i am only having oats in the am, no sugars and it isnt really practical waking up 30 mins early to inject it before breakfast

i guess i should make more of an effort though


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

David Lloyd said:


> last time i used lantus i was off cycle, or just on 250mg test, this is the first time i have used it with a proper cycle
> 
> never heard of actrapid but i used to use humalog a lot - is it similar to this? wanted to give Lantus a try as i heard you can bulk up really quick from it.
> 
> ...


Yes, Actrapid is simialr to humalog (short acting insulin). BG= blood glucose (levels)

I'm really unconvinced about Lantus use- the reason is maybe you have a constant need to eat carbs to avoid hypo.. but you don't use your own insulin as much.. with the short acting, you can take it in, wait for the spike, eat carbs, when the spike subsides, eat more carbs and get another insulin spike from your own pulses (which come every 10-15mins).. so I think it makes more sense to use short acting numerous times rather than lantus once; of course some pros take lantus, AND short acting pre/post workout.. but I think the lantus is excessive, as it just suppresses your own insulin over a long period, where as your own insulin secretion is barely affect by humalog/actrapid.

as for the peps/carb timing- sounds like you know the right thing to do... if being big was easy, everyone would be ;-)


----------



## David Lloyd (Mar 22, 2006)

i am not able to jab at every meal time since i work in an office

and dont have time to measure my BG either

i actually dont plan on using lantus again after this cycle anyway

i put too much fat on with it, was hoping the ghrp would help with this

only on second week so far so too early to tell


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

David Lloyd said:


> i am not able to jab at every meal time since i work in an office
> 
> and dont have time to measure my BG either
> 
> ...


i know the story....

I have very nice novo nordisk silver pen (novo pen 4) which fits in my suit pocket  i do a jab in the mens room in the cubicle (i work in an office too) I don't use a swab, find there is no need, so very quick and efficient.

Yeah, common to get fat with lantus.. its why I use actrapid with GH (and peps at night before sleep) and thats while dieting..


----------



## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey man. I only ask as I look after my sister and she is diabetic so I do all her insulin stuff. And she uses lantus!


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

greenspin said:


> Are you talking about Lantus as in the 24 hour insulin?


yep, that's what we are talking about.. insulin is a VERY anabolic hormone..


----------



## David Lloyd (Mar 22, 2006)

well this morning i decided to make more of an effort and jabbed my cjc and ghrp 6 at 6 am then had breakfast at 7 am and jabbed 22iu's of lantus

its been 2 hours since my lantus jab and nearly time for my second meal and no signs of hypo

thanks for the advice Ausbuilt

how many iu's of short acting slin do you jab with each meal?

i find i go hypo quite easily on humalog so wouldnt fancy doing that multiple times a day - but hey if it works....


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hey mr lloyd, glad the advice helped...

Ok I take 5-7 iu pre meal; wait 20mins and have iu GH (have 2-3iu per day, but this is optional). I find I can take 4iu of actrapid, and not even eat carbs... (but thats because of my CK diet..). Apart from "feeling the need to eat carbs" my BG test shows that my readings are getting low, even if I feel ok, so I should eat carbs (take in 10g per iu).

I don't feel this is to much trouble, and after awhile you don't need to measure, as you do get to know your body- so i find i eat carbs 40min after my actrapid shot (others say 20min, but my BG levels don't drop until 30-40min, thats individual).


----------



## Cra16 (Jan 23, 2010)

David Lloyd said:


> ive used Lantus before at 30iu's a day for about 10 weeks and dont think i went hypo once
> 
> however i just started using it this week and have been going hypo 2 - 3 times a day
> 
> ...


You can not mix lantus, it must be taken solo unlike other insulins.


----------



## PharmaSay (Jun 9, 2010)

Cra16 said:


> You can not mix lantus, it must be taken solo unlike other insulins.


well spotted Cra16.

never mix anything with lantus as it comes in a acid solution, without the acid base it'll turn quick acting.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

PharmaSay said:


> well spotted Cra16.
> 
> never mix anything with lantus as it comes in a acid solution, without the acid base it'll turn quick acting.


Lantus works like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_glargine):

Lantus is formulated at an acidic pH 4, where it is completely water soluble. After subcutaneous injection of the acidic solute (which can cause discomfort and a stinging sensation and can be mitigated with the use of the I-port ), when a physiologic pH (approximately 7.4) is achieved the increase in pH causes the insulin to come out of solution resulting in the formation of microcrystals (called insulin hexamers) which then dissociate into insulin monomers, the functional and physiologically active unit of insulin. This gradual process ensures that small amounts of Lantus are released into the body continuously, giving an almost peakless profile.

Now, regular water has a pH of approximately 7.0, BUT for bacteriostatic water, its 5.7: (from: http://www.drugs.com/pro/bacteriostatic-water-for-injection.html)

Bacteriostatic Water for Injection, USP is a sterile, nonpyrogenic preparation of water for injection containing 0.9% (9 mg/mL) of benzyl alcohol added as a bacteriostatic preservative. It is supplied in a multiple-dose container from which repeated withdrawals may be made to dilute or dissolve drugs for injection. The pH is 5.7 (4.5 to 7.0)

So what this means is, that when shooting CJC-1295, and GHRP-6 (both of which are dissolved in bacteriostatic water, as no one would use regular water), then the pH in the syringe will be lower than 5.7 (as the lantus is pH 4.0, and the other peptides are at 5.7); consequently, as the pH is WELL UNDER 7.0 (let alone the physiological 7.4 in the body), there is no problem with shooting the peptides with the Lantus, as the lantus will not come out of solution (as noted above).

Hope this helps clear the confusion! 

I've been f**cking around with insulins an peps far too much! LOL I need to get a life (before someone else says it!)


----------



## David Lloyd (Mar 22, 2006)

ausbuilt said:


> Lantus works like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_glargine):
> 
> Lantus is formulated at an acidic pH 4, where it is completely water soluble. After subcutaneous injection of the acidic solute (which can cause discomfort and a stinging sensation and can be mitigated with the use of the I-port ), when a physiologic pH (approximately 7.4) is achieved the increase in pH causes the insulin to come out of solution resulting in the formation of microcrystals (called insulin hexamers) which then dissociate into insulin monomers, the functional and physiologically active unit of insulin. This gradual process ensures that small amounts of Lantus are released into the body continuously, giving an almost peakless profile.
> 
> ...


isnt this just contradicting eveything that has been posted previously?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

David Lloyd said:


> isnt this just contradicting eveything that has been posted previously?


yes.. I'm saying the other two posts where confused about how Lantus works, and why its fine to jab with pep's.. I was hoping to show them/clarify/clear the confusion that they had, as while they where conceptually right about lantus needing to stay in an acidic solution until in the body; any solution under 7.0 is fine, and since pH is a logarithmic scale (i.e the difference between 5.7 and 7.0 is even larger than the difference between 4.0 and 5.7) there is absolutely no problem in pinning lantus with peps that are dissolved in bacteriostatic water.. as the pH of bacteriostatic water is acidic, and well under 7.0..


----------



## Cra16 (Jan 23, 2010)

I didn't give a reason, I just read the instructions on use. It says not to mix as it makes the product unpredictable. I'd go with the manafacurer over bro science on this one.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Cra16 said:


> I didn't give a reason, I just read the instructions on use. It says not to mix as it makes the product unpredictable. I'd go with the manafacurer over bro science on this one.


no probs- package insert is always correct, and the manufacturer can't get sued. My input isn't based on "bro science" I do have BSc in Chemistry, so perhaps University of Sydney science..

at any rate, no harm, the conservative view is the package insert (and in fact the BNF), but the reality is there's no problem pinning both in the same jab- however if anything it would be the pep's that would be affected rather than the lantus.

Don't forget according to the package insert, deca-durabolin builds no muscle...


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

well imo the best way to use slin is a low dose long acting (lant or lev) in the a.m with multiple doses of fast (novo or hum) through out the day (1st 3 meals)


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

big_jim_87 said:


> well imo the best way to use slin is a low dose long acting (lant or lev) in the a.m with multiple doses of fast (novo or hum) through out the day (1st 3 meals)


aha.. the pro schedule 

Well as a I said, Im more a fan of the short, but yeah this protocol is better than just long acting alone in my opinion too..


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

im not doing it atm but may go back to it as was good when i did


----------



## PharmaSay (Jun 9, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> Lantus works like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_glargine):
> 
> Lantus is formulated at an acidic pH 4, where it is completely water soluble. After subcutaneous injection of the acidic solute (which can cause discomfort and a stinging sensation and can be mitigated with the use of the I-port ), when a physiologic pH (approximately 7.4) is achieved the increase in pH causes the insulin to come out of solution resulting in the formation of microcrystals (called insulin hexamers) which then dissociate into insulin monomers, the functional and physiologically active unit of insulin. This gradual process ensures that small amounts of Lantus are released into the body continuously, giving an almost peakless profile.
> 
> ...


why would you even risk this ?? any change to the PH and concentration of zinc may effect it pharmacodynamics by not precitating into tissues as intended.

*PLS dont mix with anything you never know i could be right !*


----------

