# A Bit Stuck



## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Evening all,

I have to admit, i'm a bit stuck and it's getting me down now.

I've been trying to bulk for a while and am getting no where, i do it for about a week, put on 1lb and then loose confident in the macros i set out. What do you guys (and girls) recommend as a ratio for bulking. Im currently eating approx 3500kcals (cant remember what ratio). My other question is should i just do compound movements, i have been going heavier on the weights (and slowly getting stronger thank f*ck).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## 4NT5 (Jun 1, 2007)

Be consistent with your diet and training and you will see results, your appearance is not going to change overnight


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

4NT5 said:


> Be consistent with your diet and training and you will see results, your appearance is not going to change overnight


 Appreciate that but although i still want to get my macros set in concrete as a bit of motivation


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Yes compounds are good for building muscle. Stress the muscle with moderate to heavy weights in the 8 -10 rep range (3 sets) choose a weight that you are fighting to get that last rep out as a set of 8 once you can get 3 x 8 go for 3 x 9 then 3 x 10. Once you cab do 3 x 10 increase the weight enough to start the process again.

eat a healthy balanced diet with plenty of proteins. meat, fish, eggs, chicken, pulses, nuts, veg, fruit, etc etc.

Train hard and rest consistently. You grow when your out of the gym.... Sleep, recovery and good nutrition coupled with a solid training routine are key to progression.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Train

Eat

Sleep

Repeat

You can do it mate


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Total calories is much more important than macros. If you consistently stick to the same calorie total and eat enough protein, day-to-day variations in carbs and fat will make very little difference unless you start doing something extreme.

If you want a suggestion, and you're natty, something like 0.8 g of protein per gram of bodyweight, 25% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs is sensible. These aren't magic numbers though so don't stress about variations from this. Remember, calories are king.

How much fat are you gaining? 1lb per week may be great for you but it could also be too fast...


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## FFF (Jan 16, 2017)

I would screenshot the replies because the mods are gonna get ya soon


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Total calories is much more important than macros. If you consistently stick to the same calorie total and eat enough protein, day-to-day variations in carbs and fat will make very little difference unless you start doing something extreme.
> 
> If you want a suggestion, and you're natty, something like 0.8 g of protein per gram of bodyweight, 25% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs is sensible. These aren't magic numbers though so don't stress about variations from this. Remember, calories are king.
> 
> How much fat are you gaining? 1lb per week may be great for you but it could also be too fast...


 This, get protein & calories down and let life dictate the carb / fat balance each day.

As far as I know research shows little to no difference in results between surplus coming from fats or carbs


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)




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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> *Total calories is much more important than macros.* If you consistently stick to the same calorie total and eat enough protein, day-to-day variations in carbs and fat will make very little difference unless you start doing something extreme.
> 
> If you want a suggestion, and you're natty, something like 0.8 g of protein per gram of bodyweight, 25% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs is sensible. These aren't magic numbers though so don't stress about variations from this. Remember, calories are king.
> 
> How much fat are you gaining? 1lb per week may be great for you but it could also be too fast...


 Totally disagree with this statement, its whats in those calories that count!

A calorie is nothing but a unit of measure. Nutrition is king


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Yes compounds are good for building muscle. Stress the muscle with moderate to heavy weights in the 8 -10 rep range (3 sets) choose a weight that you are fighting to get that last rep out as a set of 8 once you can get 3 x 8 go for 3 x 9 then 3 x 10. Once you cab do 3 x 10 increase the weight enough to start the process again.
> 
> eat a healthy balanced diet with plenty of proteins. meat, fish, eggs, chicken, pulses, nuts, veg, fruit, etc etc.
> 
> Train hard and rest consistently. You grow when your out of the gym.... Sleep, recovery and good nutrition coupled with a solid training routine are key to progression.


 Thanks for that, just what im looking for!! How many times would your recommend training a week? Currently doing 3 days on, 1 day off..


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jamiew691 said:


> Thanks for that, just what im looking for!! How many times would your recommend training a week? Currently doing 3 days on, 1 day off..


 It all depend on what level you are at and what your routine looks like.


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

just been looking at when i recorded for a couple of days on myfitnesspal and this is what ive been eating on a daily basis (roughly)

3884kcals

376g carbs

152g fat

235g protein


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> It all depend on what level you are at and what your routine looks like.


 What info would be needed to determine this?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jamiew691 said:


> What info would be needed to determine this?


 What do you do routine wise, exercises etc

day 1

day 2

day 3

rest

what sort of weight do you use? poundage's?

where do you put yourself?

Novice/beginner

Intermediate

Experianced

Pro


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Totally disagree with this statement, its whats in those calories that count!
> 
> A calorie is nothing but a unit of measure. Nutrition is king


 You're free disagree but you are wrong.

Steve knows what he's talking about in terms of training though Jamie.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> You're free disagree but you are wrong.
> 
> Steve knows what he's talking about in terms of training though Jamie.


 If you eat 4000 calories of rabbit meat every day for 3 months you will starve to death... It does not have the balanced *nutritional* values needed to sustain life on its own ...SRS

I am not wrong, a calorie is nothing more than a unit of measure:

View attachment Capture.JPG


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Last Week went

Mon-Arms 4 sets arm curl machine/ 4 preacher curl / 4 hammer curl/ dipping 4 sets aprox 30kg added weight/ 80lbs 4 rope extensions /80lbs 4 z bar extensions

Tue - back 4 lat pull down/ barbell row/ t bar row/ rope straight arm pull down / z bar straight pull down (all about 8-10 reps)

wed- chest 4 bench press 80kgs (8 reps)/ incline db press 37.5kgs dumbells (8 - 10reps)/ decline bench press/ chest flyes /

thu-rest

fri-legs 5 squat (60-80kgs)/ leg extensions 360kgs 8-10 reps/ leg extensions (8-10 reps)/ laying hamstring curl 5 sets / standing ham curl 8-12 reps

sat- rest after legs (was f8cked)

sun- shoulders shoulder hammer strength 8-12 reps / shoulder press 30kgs 8-10 reps/ dumbbell side raise 10kgs 8-10 reps/ db front raise 10kgs 10 reps/ shrugs 5 sets

this is mainly rough workings out for weight, it varies on how many reps and what mood im in :thumb


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> If you eat 4000 calories of rabbit meat every day for 3 months you will starve to death... It does not have the balanced *nutritional* values needed to sustain life on its own ...SRS
> 
> I am not wrong, a calorie is nothing more than a unit of measure:
> 
> ...


 I have to be honest, i do agree with you, it is just a unit of measure and has to be made up of other factors, what your saying does definitely make sense steve!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jamiew691 said:


> Last Week went
> 
> Mon-Arms 4 sets arm curl machine/ 4 preacher curl / 4 hammer curl/ dipping 4 sets aprox 30kg added weight/ 80lbs 4 rope extensions /80lbs 4 z bar extensions
> 
> ...


 Your problem could be highlighted in bold. Without the correct attitude and work ethic you will be pissing against the wind! You need to be prepared to put the hard work in.

How long have you been training?


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Your problem could be highlighted in bold. Without the correct attitude and work ethic you will be pissing against the wind! You need to be prepared to put the hard work in.
> 
> How long have you been training?


 Properly for about 2 years, the highlighted bit was a bit of a joke, sometimes i go and think "lets go heavy" and do some heavy weight (to me) and do 5 rep stuff.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> If you eat 4000 calories of rabbit meat every day for 3 months you will starve to death... It does not have the balanced *nutritional* values needed to sustain life on its own ...SRS
> 
> I am not wrong, a calorie is nothing more than a unit of measure:
> 
> ...


 Strangely that doesn't contradict the advice I posted above.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jamiew691 said:


> Properly for about 2 years, the highlighted bit was a bit of a joke, sometimes i go and think "lets go heavy" and do some heavy weight (to me) and do 5 rep stuff.


 I think you need to dumb down your routine a little and hit every body part 2x per week maybe an upper lower split

Mon: upper

Tues: lower

Wed: Rest

Thurs Rest

Fri: Upper

Sat Lower

Sun: rest

If needed take Mon as rest, then repeat 

I see yo do arms on MON which will be detrimental to the following days lifting.

On you upper day do arms last as you use them for almost everything excluding legs


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## Fortis (Oct 20, 2012)

Dont stop mate, it can be sometimes be a long and windy road especially at the start. Try it for a month and keep a log on where you're at.

Good luck


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Strangely that doesn't contradict the advice I posted above.


 Starving to death while consuming 4000 cals per day seems pretty contradictory to me!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Fortis said:


> Dont stop mate, it can be sometimes be a long and windy road *especially at the start.* Try it for a month and keep a log on where you're at.
> 
> Good luck


 Hes been training for two years.


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## Fortis (Oct 20, 2012)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Hes been training for two years.


 hes f**ked then :rolleye11:


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Totally disagree with this statement, its whats in those calories that count!
> 
> A calorie is nothing but a unit of measure. Nutrition is king


 You're nit picking Steve, As a first past calories are more important than fiddling around with macros. Yes if you go to extremes and say 0 protein 100% fats 0% carbs (which is next to impossible anyway) you are in trouble, total calories become irrelevant. But this situation is unrealistic

A Big Mac has 520Cals, 45g carbs, 28g fat, 24g protein so ratio of 48% / 29% / 25% so seems on the outset actually quite balenced, however, eat 6 big macs a day for 3 months and see how you get on. I guess that is your point

But as a rule of thumb, wih a balenced diet, getting the base calories right is primary and fiddling about with the macros (*within reason*) has a secondary effect. If you are big guy with a lot of muscle mass and on 2k a day, fiddling around with macros is in no way effective to upping your total calories


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

JohhnyC said:


> *You're nit picking Steve,* As a first past calories are more important than fiddling around with macros. Yes if you go to extremes and say 0 protein 100% fats 0% carbs (which is next to impossible anyway) you are in trouble, total calories become irrelevant. But this situation is unrealistic
> 
> A Big Mac has 520Cals, 45g carbs, 28g fat, 24g protein so ratio of 48% / 29% / 25% so seems on the outset actually quite balenced, however, eat 6 big macs a day for 3 months and see how you get on. I guess that is your point
> 
> But as a rule of thumb, wih a balenced diet, getting the base calories right is primary and fiddling about with the macros (*within reason*) has a secondary effect. If you are big guy with a lot of muscle mass and on 2k a day, fiddling around with macros is in no way effective to upping your total calories


 No I'm not nit picking.... It is what it is...!

A calorie is nothing more than a unit of measure. A lump pf wood has a caloric value yet I don't see there being much in the way of nutrition in a bit of wood.

The nutrients within these "calories" are key.

Put whatever spin on it you like this is a simple fact.

I reiterate....My advice is to eat a healthy balanced diet which gives the body All of the nutrients it needs for growth. Don't just chuck any old calories in there.

Try eating nothing but chicken and rice for 4 weeks and see how your body reacts.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> No I'm not nit picking.... It is what it is...!
> 
> A calorie is nothing more than a unit of measure. A lump pf wood has a caloric value yet I don't see there being much in the way of nutrition in a bit of wood.
> 
> ...


 Read what I actually said Steve. You're arguing against a straw man of your own devising.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Total calories is much more important than macros.


 Did I read this wrong?

counting calories can only tell you so much; if you're not careful and don't eat *the right calories,* you'll likely lose muscle


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Did I read this wrong?


 Yes.

"Much more important" not "the only thing that matters", and I also specifically said to avoid extremes.

Also bear in mind that the OP asked about calories and macros so that what I offered advice about.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Yes.
> 
> "Much more important" not "the only thing that matters", and I also specifically said to avoid extremes.
> 
> Also bear in mind that the OP asked about calories and macros so that what I offered advice about.


 Okay.... I still stand by what I say. The nutrition within the calorie is more important than the unit of measure used to calculate how it heats up water in some experiment in the lab.

Its bullshit mate. We need to feed the body to enable growth not heat a beaker of water. Calories mean s**t to me. Nutrition is key.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Okay.... I still stand by what I say. The nutrition withing the calorie is more important than the unit of measure used to calculate how it heats up water in some experiment in the lab.
> 
> Its bullshit mate. We need to* feed the body to enable growth* *not heat a beaker of water. * Calories mean s**t to me. Nutrition is key.


 but that needs to be defined in some way

A "Calorie" is a "unit of thermal energy" . They define 1 unit as the amount of energy it takes to heat 1 gram of water by 1 degree in one unit of atmosphere. It was designed with physics in mind and has become more important to the food industry now.

Can apply to explosions etc, like 1kg of TNT = 1 million calories

The point being that for a body to function you need fuel (amongst other things) as you mention. This fuel needs to measured in some fashion, we do this by using calories, the more muscle mass, the more active we are, the colder it is outside and so forth, means we require more fuel i.e. "calories" Different fuel provide different levels of fuel such as 1g fats = 9cals, carbs 1g = 4cals and so on,

yes you also need a pile of other things like fibre vitamins and minerals too to help convert these intakes of food into an actual resource that can be utilised. Of course the major one being water, zero cals yet dead without it and hence your examples.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

JohhnyC said:


> but that needs to be defined in some way


 Why?

I have never counted a calorie in my life and I never will. People invent this s**t to make money.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Okay.... I still stand by what I say. The nutrition within the calorie is more important than the unit of measure used to calculate how it heats up water in some experiment in the lab.
> 
> Its bullshit mate. We need to feed the body to enable growth not heat a beaker of water. Calories mean s**t to me. Nutrition is key.


 The body needs sources of energy to train, repair, grow and all other normal daily processes. Simply put the published kcal data for foods is the best measure available for this so we use it. Furthermore it is so utterly irrefutable than body weight gain or loss is correlated with total calorie intake that 'debating' this is like arguing about whether elephants are bigger than ants.

I would not however suggest people try to use protein as a primary energy source when gaining like the OP is. This is why I made the suggestion to base protein intake on body weight (to reap the functional benefits) and to then make up the remaining calories from fat and carbs. The split I suggested for carbs and fat also has functional reasons behind it but for the OP this discussion is already getting unnecessarily complicated enough!


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Why?
> 
> I have never counted a calorie in my life and I never will. People invent this s**t to make money.


 nor to I mate , but its useful for some people if they want to see where the problems are or highlight what foods can help them bulk, lose weight etc

e.g. olive oil, 4 tbsp and that's half your daily cals (average man), not going to help you losing weight if you dump a load all over a salad but great in a shake it you want to bulk


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Furthermore it is so utterly* irrefutable than body weight gain or loss is correlated with total calorie intake *that 'debating' this is like arguing about whether elephants are bigger than ants.


 This is incorrect. Your hung up in the calorie

Eat 4000 cals of rabbit meat each day for 3 months and you starve to death "Rabbit starvation". Not enough nutritional value in eating 4000 cals of rabbit protein.

I give up some people cant see the wood for the trees....


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

JohhnyC said:


> e.g. olive oil, 4 tbsp and that's half your daily cals (average man),


 You may want to check your maths there  .


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> You may want to check your maths there  .


 Ah yes i made no sense there, Meant to talk about a shake and adding olive oil to make a 1000cals.


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## Fadi (Dec 14, 2010)

jamiew691 said:


> Appreciate that but although i still want to get my macros set in concrete as a bit of motivation


 Paralysis by analysis..., when perfect is the enemy of good.

Do yourself a favour and take a step back.

Reduce your total exercises to about 4 compounds, done 3x/week.

Apply a push pull mentality within your training. By push pull I am *not* referring to what is normally understood by the bodybuilding community here no. By push, I'm speaking of going all out, and by pull, I'm referring to pulling back/taking a step back from what you've done earlier. This would allow for maximum recovery without too much thinking about progressive overload etc.

Nutrition: eat what works for you and not what someone tells you to eat based on whatever. You need to enjoy what you're doing and not force yourself to eat or drink something disgusting simply because it works. There are plenty of alternatives to everything, so pick what you like and stick with it. Drink a large portion of your calories if that would make it easier for you to meet your caloric need for a weight gain.

Compound movements do not have to be restricted to low reps heavy weights. In fact, most often one would gain by increasing the repetitions to a low of 20 and a high of 30. So do not be afraid to break the "rules", you might surprise yourself of how much more you can actually feel your muscles being stimulated instead of just stressing your connective tissues. Mechanical tension in my book never meant to be joint tension but muscular tension, and for that, you need to reduce the weight and go to a rep range that your muscles above all else are the target of activation and stimulation.

All the best.


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Get the correct amount of calories so you aren't adding to much fat or not gaining, get your protein In and let the carbs n fat fall into place, I would go for atleast 20% fat and the rest with carbs but that's me, lift progressively heavier and if your adding to much fat reduce calories slightly


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Charlee Scene said:


> Get the correct amount of calories so you aren't adding to much fat or not gaining, get your protein In and let the carbs n fat fall into place, I would go for atleast 20% fat and the rest with carbs but that's me, lift progressively heavier and if your adding to much fat reduce calories slightly


 Thanks mate, I'm trying to hit 50% carbs, 30% protein and 20% fat. How does that sound?


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## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Fadi65 said:


> Paralysis by analysis..., when perfect is the enemy of good.
> 
> Do yourself a favour and take a step back.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for all that! I'm trying to put together push/pull days as we speak (type) It's totally new to me so needs some doing. How does a 5% carbs, 30% protein and 20% fat split sound to you? Thanks again for the advice!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

FuqOutDaWhey said:


> This, get protein & calories down and let life dictate the carb / fat balance each day.
> 
> As far as I know research shows little to no difference in results between surplus coming from fats or carbs


 Was that a helpful comment? :lol:


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Was that a helpful comment? :lol:


 I'm very disappointed in myself


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## Usmedicinemart (Apr 20, 2017)

You should wait for sometime. Follow good diet chart and training instruction also. Good luck!!


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