# Big, PSCarb & other diet experts... advice needed!



## FatBurner

Hey guys, I need a bit of advice that might be different from the usual requests but here goes.

I have a big change coming up in my life, move to a new city, new job etc, and am currently fairly overweight. Im 25 and at about 16.5stone, 6'2" I reckon im prob about 25%bf. I have done some training, using various methods before, and always do well on the bulking but terrible on the cutting!!! I think I have a slow metabolism, and im a greedy fatboy!!! :smoke:

Basically the big change happens in 6 weeks and I am looking for a diet which I could combine with a routine to lose as much FAT as possible. I dont care if I lose muscle as I know I can put this back on whenever I want.:lift:

I will be using weights in m effort to lose this fat, so this should help retain some muscle yeah? However, I will be hitting plenty of cardio as well, even though I know this will lead to some muscle loss.

So basically Im looking to get a diet to aid in max fat loss whilst allowing me to function and workout. Any advice on this, and the necessary training would be great. Do you think an extreme pre-comp style cutting diet might be the way fwd?

Cheers again!!!


----------



## Bigdav

before you work out a diet, try and find out exactly what bodyfat percentage you really are, that way you can design a diet that will just feed the metabolically active tissue, not the fat and it comes off a hell of a lot faster. Find out what it is, most gyms now have machines and calipers to help, post it up and i'll have a crack at it


----------



## FatBurner

Will do! Im away to the gym now so i'll get it checked and tell ya later. Cheers


----------



## FatBurner

Right, bf not quite as bad as thought, but still fatboyfatson.... 23%

Hope this helps. Bare in mind max fatloss is my goal, with retaining some strength if possible.


----------



## big

IMO, a keto diet would be best and also fairly easy to stick to. You will lose some muscle mass and strength, but not a lot in comparison with the fat loss you will achieve.

Stick to a really low volume routine while cutting, but keep your intensity as high as you can.

Do cardio each morning before breakfast. This will help speed up your metabolism.


----------



## 3752

Big has a point there...

i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.

it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..

Meal 1:

8 whole eggs

Meal 2:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts

Meal 6:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.

do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.

take a fatburner 3x daily

take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...

this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


----------



## FatBurner

Cheers guys, Pscarb - thats really helpful. Couple of questions ... what do you consider a "serving" of peanut butter & the cashews/peanuts?

I am really determined :rage: & reckon I will be able to stick to a diet that I am sure will work. In one of the articles I read something about ketosticks to monitor the body's state. Are these required?

As far as the fat burner is concerned, I have ephedrine in the form of Chesteze, is this ok? Unfortunately I have no idea where to get clen so I guess I wont be able to use that.

Do you reckon I should keep doing weights aswell? :lift: I have been mainly using heavy compounds for 3 sets of 5/6 + a few assistance exercises to cover whole body. Is this a good approach or will I find this too hard with a keto diet?

Cheers mate!!


----------



## hackskii

Keto sticks will tell you if you are in ketosis.

It is an indication of if you are in ketosis or not.

Not bad PS, pretty decent.

But the idea of getting into ketosis will take about 3 days of eating less than 30 grams of carbs in a day.

The nuts, cashews contain fewer carbs than peanuts. The best nut for a keto diet is macadamia nuts as they have the most fat and fewest carbs of all the nuts.

No sugar, no breads or flower. If you are a coffee drinker drink whole cream or heavy cream and splenda for sweetening.

Keep the carbs very low and you will be amazed on how fast you weight will fall off.

12-14 lbs in 14 days is about average.

Yes by all means lift weights.

Lifting weights will have a thermic effect to burn fat for up to 3 days. This is actually more important than cardio as this in itself will maintain lean muscle mass.

Do volume type of training where you dont use the real heavy weights and do more sets of lets say 10 sets of 10 reps.

If you add yohimbe to that ephedrine you will just totally love that. Yohimbe makes ephedrine work much better and you wont need as much ephedrine either.

Combined with some coffee or caffene and you will almost go up onto flames. I get very hot on that.

Drink lots of water too mate.

Dont eat before bed time either.

Eat within 30 minutes apon awakening, this revs up the metaolism and tells the body that you wont be needing to store any meals.

1 gallon of ice water will burn 150 calories compared to regular temp water.

Ice water has a thermogenic effect on the body because the body has to heat the water in the stomach up.


----------



## John

hackskii said:


> Keto sticks will tell you if you are in ketosis.
> 
> It is an indication of if you are in ketosis or not.
> 
> Not bad PS, pretty decent.
> 
> But the idea of getting into ketosis will take about 3 days of eating less than 30 grams of carbs in a day.
> 
> The nuts, cashews contain fewer carbs than peanuts. The best nut for a keto diet is macadamia nuts as they have the most fat and fewest carbs of all the nuts.
> 
> No sugar, no breads or flower. If you are a coffee drinker drink whole cream or heavy cream and splenda for sweetening.
> 
> Keep the carbs very low and you will be amazed on how fast you weight will fall off.
> 
> 12-14 lbs in 14 days is about average.
> 
> Yes by all means lift weights.
> 
> Lifting weights will have a thermic effect to burn fat for up to 3 days. This is actually more important than cardio as this in itself will maintain lean muscle mass.
> 
> Do volume type of training where you dont use the real heavy weights and do more sets of lets say 10 sets of 10 reps.
> 
> If you add yohimbe to that ephedrine you will just totally love that. Yohimbe makes ephedrine work much better and you wont need as much ephedrine either.
> 
> Combined with some coffee or caffene and you will almost go up onto flames. I get very hot on that.
> 
> Drink lots of water too mate.
> 
> Dont eat before bed time either.
> 
> Eat within 30 minutes apon awakening, this revs up the metaolism and tells the body that you wont be needing to store any meals.
> 
> 1 gallon of ice water will burn 150 calories compared to regular temp water.
> 
> Ice water has a thermogenic effect on the body because the body has to heat the water in the stomach up.


excellent advice guys, good stuff.


----------



## FatBurner

Cheers Hackskii,

Right, so apart from the "servings" question, which Im sure Pscarb will clear up, do you guys reckon that if I hit the ice water, say 6 litres a day, go for macadamia nuts, walk 40mins per day pre-breakfast, and weights 3 days a week, I can achieve some awesome fat-loss?

Hackskii, for the weights would you suggest 10 sets per bodypart then? And at approx what % of 1rm? For this cutting do you have any preference for whole body workouts, or split routines?

Also, that 12-14lbs in 14 days, is that the first 14 days or every 14 days? I know you always lose more to start with thru water.

Also where can I get Yohimbe from in the UK, at a good price? I assume its legal?

Cheers guys. :beer1: :lift:


----------



## FatBurner

Oh, just one other question, the weights for the meats, are those cooked or raw?

Cheers again!!


----------



## hackskii

I dont weigh meat, eat what can fit in your hand, one serving.

Ice water, yes.

40 minute walk, hammer water and some caffene or fat burner before.

Total body workouts or circuit training is really best. Do that on the off days from your cardio.

plateau will hit about week 2-4. This is un-avoidable, will happen whether you want it or not, just the way it is.

Reason being the body does not want to stay in a state of weight loss.

The body does not want to stay in anabolism either.

The body is really smart.

All you can do is your best. If you have this, you should secceed.

But a bit of knowledge is always good too.


----------



## hackskii

You guys do things diffrent than us in the states.

Weighing meat is pointless when on a keto diet.

The only thing you need to worry about is eat protein and fat and not eat carbs.

6 meals and you should be ok.


----------



## McRoNiX

Pscarb said:


> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.


Is that true?

so walking is better than running for fat burning?


----------



## 3752

yes mate it is but you still have to walk at a decent pace to reach the 65% mark..

good advice Hackskii mate i disagree on the weighing of food if you don't weigh the food you don't know what to change and by how much but like you say we do things diffrent over here like driving on the correct side of the road..... 

weigh all the food before cooking fatburner

a serving of Peanut Butter is approx 1 tablespoon..


----------



## FatBurner

Thanks guys, just chowed down my first 8 scrambled eggs this morning so we are underway! I will keep you updated as to my progress.:lift:


----------



## Great White

bumping this for later reading.


----------



## big pete

an omlette with onions and fibrous veg (brocolli) is a good way of getting the eggs down first thing in the morning


----------



## BIG-UNC

could i use this diet as a test diet?

i mean instead of going full throttle on a comp diet now!

some wicked info on this thread cant believe ive missed it on my searches


----------



## hackskii

Sure you could Uncle, you might have to change your name to skinny Unc

For me lowering the carbs some makes all the diffrence in the world for not being hungry.

It is when I start pounding the carbs that I start to eat them and almost cant stop.

By eating more fats and protein and less carbs after about 3 days you will notice you wont have the hunger pains, this is probably due to the fact that blood sugar levels will be more stable due to less insulin being used.

Also doing that the body decides to switch off the glucose furnace and switch on the fat furnace.

Makes a huge diffrence with me.

I also eat every 2 hours at work, small portons, carbs, proteins, fats all together.

I drink 20 oz of water 30 minutes before I eat or 1.5 hours after.

When dieting my last meal is usually just protein and fat.

I was doing the carb loading every 4 days but that just made me very hungry then I tended to overfeed, that was not productive of my goal.


----------



## RAIKEY

what your saying bout the hunger thing is spot on Hackskii,...

the first 8 weeks of my cut looked like hell, on paper,..but in practice it was fine, cutting back the carbs to zero and using fats for energy gave me a wider choice of foods,(tho i seemed to stick to just chicken and cashews)

and no cravings, (peaks and troughs in sugar/insulin levels)....

i could happily maintian such a diet,(and probably will),....to stay lean....

it was the final 4 weeks that were hell. when i cut out all the fat and started with minimal carbs ........

does a fat defficient diet affect the brain at all ??

cos i could feel it starting to slowly turn me crazy (not a joke) so i put a bit of fats in and..... bang! i was fine for a day.....take em out and i turned into a right miserable ghet!!......

for me ,next time, its fats all the way for the cut .......


----------



## Aftershock

hackskii said:


> If you add yohimbe to that ephedrine you will just totally love that. Yohimbe makes ephedrine work much better and you wont need as much ephedrine either.
> 
> Combined with some coffee or caffene and you will almost go up onto flames. I get very hot on that.
> 
> Drink lots of water too mate.


Just be carfull mixing these two as the combined effect its much more potent that the sum of their parts.. Start very low on the yohimbe or even try it on its own first.


----------



## hackskii

Yohimbe can elevate blood pressure too. I know a few people that cant take yohimbe. I dont abuse that one as I do know it can give me high blood pressure.

The brain does need fat and low fat diets are not all that healthy, they can have problems with compromised immune system, low test levels, among other things.

But low carb diets can have their share of problems too like elevated cortisol levles, low T3 output, etc.

But for the mind you mind, Omega 3's are tops, good stuff there.

I do eat carbs but it is limited. I am starting to add them slowly now but I do want to lose another 5 lbs.

I am going to take some pics but I dont think I am lean enough right now to do so. I am planning on doing another cycle in a short time so maybe this is the best time to do that

Bodyfat will be lower and the muscles fuller, hey that aint a bad combo


----------



## Peg

This thread is excellent.

How do you get off the plateau?

I think I'm going to try the diet, but maybe not that extreme.

Please make this a standing sticky!

I find when I'm using the fats I don't crave food and I'm happier.

I'm less moody, my brain is quicker, I have more energy, and I feel good.

You know those PMS moments are far and few when they should be more acute.

My family should kiss your feet, Hackskii!! 

My eating habits are changing such that I want the fats, the fibrous vegies, nuts, and meat and don't want the carbs.

I still have trouble with drinking enough water.

You should write a book and include that awesome bibliography you have.

You can use me as a success story! 

hackskii, you are aces! :first:


----------



## hackskii

Well, I was on another board battling the whole board and I got overwhelmed. Everything I did to back my statements got flamed by about 6 diffrent guys.

It got to the point I just told them it worked and I didnt have the pubmed case studies to prove it but I knew it worked.

They told me it was dogma.

Sometimes you just know things to be true on how your own body responds to certain foods.

Everything that I read supports this.

But the calorie in calorie out folks say diffrent.

How do you get off a plateau?

Well, plateau's can be because dieting can lower thyroid output. If this is the cause the add some carbs back in the thyroid fires back up and then you go back to the diet.

Cortisol also can be a factor in diets, but adding some carbs back in stops that as well, also there are cortisol blockers out on the market which I do take in the morning when cortisol is highest and that helps too.

But a cheat day never hurts. I actually dont like the idea of a whole cheat day as when I start eating carbs I can get rather hungry and out of control.

So the last meal or so every 4 days helps here by adding carbs.

But I drop the fat and protein. Then the next day start back low carbing it.

But right now I am adding in very slowly the carbs. I am still at a defecit, still losing but rather slowly. I only have 5 or so pounds left so I am in no hurry. I still feel like I am getting leaner as the body adjusts to the carbs slowly and the defecit is still there.

I think it is confusion that tricks the body.

The body is smart, it does not want to stay anabolism.

Also when the body is not getting enough calories it will convert your muscle to fuel. The body does this because this lowers the requirement of fuel when less muscle is present. With less muscle is present less fuel is required and this is the body's way of adjusting itself.

But choosing fiberous vegetables are a super smart way of eating carbohydrates when you are dieting.

This allows you to have good elimination, lowers the Glycemic load of that meal, provides the body with vitamins and minerals, among other healthfull things.

Thanks for the complaments Peg, I think you are aces too.


----------



## Tatyana

K I hate to admit this, but as I have NOT been able to train or do cardio to my liking with surgery and Uni, I may have to do this bloody hit it hard low carbs thing. :boohoo:

It will probably be a blessing in disguise.

B*LLUX (k done moaning now) 

x

x

x

T

8 weeks out and an exam in 2, has anyone studied on low carbs? I think I will be having a refed on exam day FOR SURE!


----------



## hackskii

Tatyana said:


> K I hate to admit this, but as I have NOT been able to train or do cardio to my liking with surgery and Uni, I may have to do this bloody hit it hard low carbs thing. :boohoo:
> 
> It will probably be a blessing in disguise.
> 
> B*LLUX (k done moaning now)
> 
> x
> 
> x
> 
> x
> 
> T
> 
> 8 weeks out and an exam in 2, has anyone studied on low carbs? I think I will be having a refed on exam day FOR SURE!


Oh darling, you just might like it if you try it

Speaking of liking, why dont you call me?


----------



## 3752

the diet i suggested is extreme and i only advocated it in this instance because we was dealing with a time restriction.

i would normally advocate a carb cycleing regime as this would be more beneficail over the long term for muscle retention.

also it has to be acknowledged that we all deal with low carbs diffrently i can function pretty well on less than 10g of carbs for 3-4 days whilst others cannot with carbs less than 50 or 100g you need to evaluate where you sit as an individual.

also we all have diffrent goals in our training regime if you are following a decent intense workout along with cardio you can eat more carbs and still lose weight very fast(carb cycling).....

Hackski - i know what you mean about the diffrent nuts i am now a big fan of almonds but in my experiance more people get on with peanuts better than other nuts hence why the suggestion plus having 20g of PB is a nice change from time to time..


----------



## Tatyana

Ok I am getting into a limited time thing Paul.

I know I can rip up quite well in about 6 weeks if my chub is not too high.

My fat is all redistributed though, I have less on my arms and legs than last season.

SO if I do keto diet, better to do it earlier me thinks, than later?

I would rather be too lean and have to eat up to fill out a bit again.

I do like carb cycling, and carb tapering through the day.

x

x

x

T


----------



## Peg

I want to do Paul's diet but I'm wondering if it may be too extreme for what I am about to do in my training.

I'm in a time crunch too. I've got to increase my MA training to get ready for a MA test in July. I need to lose fat and gain some lean muscle and strength especially in abs and inner thighs so my stances can be deep and my movements more balanced and stronger. I also need to increase my strength in my lower back and jump higher.

New routine:

T and Th morning and evening 45 minute intensive MA class.

W evening 45 minute intensive MA class.

Saturday - (every other Saturday) 45 minute intensive MA class.

Carb cycle to eat more calories on T, W, and Th when I am expending the calories.

Carb taper on other days.

Where would be a good place to put my weight training in this new MA routine.

What kind of weight training routine would be advised?

Is the diet above that Paul suggests adequate for this kind of training or should I add to it?

*Tatyana:* I've studied on low carb before and even took a major exam. What time of day are you studying? When is your best time of the day for accomplishing learning tasks? Keeping the blood sugar level in a mid range will allow you to study on low carb. I always eat a couple of hard boiled eggs or a handful of nuts before I study instead of other carbs when I get the hankering for some energy boost. Interesting.. they both have protein and fat.  Go Scott! and it was a nutritionist 30 years ago that told me to eat these things when I needed high mental acuity.

It worked for me every time.


----------



## 3752

Peg - yes you are correct it would be a little extreme you could adjust the diet i suggest maybe this rotation.

*Day 1:*

Meal 1:

4 egg whites

2 whole eggs

50g Oats

Meal 2:

Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

6 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

Meal 6:

6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

*Day 2:*

Meal 1:

4 egg whites

2 whole eggs

50g Oats

Meal 2:

Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

6 oz. of lean meat 50g (dry weight) Basmati rice + 1Tbsp Olive oil/Flax oil

Meal 4:

Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

6 oz. of lean meat 50g (dry weight) Basmati rice + 1Tbsp Olive oil/Flax oil

Meal 6:

6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

*Day 3:*

Meal 1:

6 whole eggs

Meal 2:

Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

6 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

6 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts

Meal 6:

6 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

Repeat...

on the 7th day eat 300 g of carbs over the day.

hope this helps Peg...


----------



## Peg

Wow, thank you so much, Paul.

It helps greatly.

I feel the flab falling off just reading it.

All things I like to eat too.

Pro Petide is that a whey product or something else totally?


----------



## 3752

Pro peptide is a blended protein this is better than just a whey protein as the amino's will be steadily released into your system...i use Extrem Protein myself and as a UK-Muscle member you get 25% off any order from Extreme so it will work out much cheaper than a tub of Pro-Pep


----------



## hackskii

She lives in the States Paul and the shipping would kill the 25% 

I think our protein is cheaper here than there. I can get 6 lbs of whey protein for around $20.00, hell that works out cheaper than ground beef.


----------



## 3752

ooops sorry didn't realise....

Peg Muscle milk would be a good choice maybe but hackskii is correct protein is cheaper for you guys out there but try to get a blended protein..


----------



## Peg

Thanks again!


----------



## Deano!

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


would i still lose alot of fat if i done the cycle without the clenbuterols?


----------



## hackskii

Deano! said:


> would i still lose alot of fat if i done the cycle without the clenbuterols?


Yes, most of fat loss is diet controlled anyway.


----------



## basford

would it be catastrophic to replace the water with milk in the pro peptide?

also why all the eggs in the morning?


----------



## 3752

basford said:


> would it be catastrophic to replace the water with milk in the pro peptide?
> 
> also why all the eggs in the morning?


by using Milk you alter the amino profile to the drink and you also add simple sugars 5g per 100ml of milk no matter what type you use....

eggs are an excellant protein source and most people can digest eggs in the morning alot better than chicken


----------



## hackskii

Man, I am getting tired of chicken. That stuff is gagging me now.

But I love eggs.


----------



## basford

Pscarb said:


> by using Milk you alter the amino profile to the drink and you also add simple sugars 5g per 100ml of milk no matter what type you use....
> 
> eggs are an excellant protein source and most people can digest eggs in the morning alot better than chicken


Cheers mate.

Hopefully the peanut butter will thicken it up


----------



## Ollie B

Pscarb said:


> Peg - yes you are correct it would be a little extreme you could adjust the diet i suggest maybe this rotation.
> 
> *Day 1:*
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 4 egg whites
> 
> 2 whole eggs
> 
> 50g Oats
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> *Day 2:*
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 4 egg whites
> 
> 2 whole eggs
> 
> 50g Oats
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat 50g (dry weight) Basmati rice + 1Tbsp Olive oil/Flax oil
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat 50g (dry weight) Basmati rice + 1Tbsp Olive oil/Flax oil
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> *Day 3:*
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 6 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> Repeat...
> 
> on the 7th day eat 300 g of carbs over the day.
> 
> hope this helps Peg...


Paul. Im thinking about doing this diet. Would it be advisable doing so whilst im on 250mg Of Test E a week and Winstrol 50mg ED running with clens? How should i train and what about cardio? I weigh 13 1/2 stone. Is this diet just strictly to lose bodyfat and gain muscle???


----------



## invisiblekid

Ollie B said:


> Paul. Im thinking about doing this diet. Would it be advisable doing so whilst im on 250mg Of Test E a week and Winstrol 50mg ED running with clens? How should i train and what about cardio? I weigh 13 1/2 stone. Is this diet just strictly to lose bodyfat and gain muscle???


Also - where does PWO nutrition feature?


----------



## hackskii

invisiblekid said:


> Also - where does PWO nutrition feature?


Meat, eggs, etc.

Keto diets do work and work fast, if you eat any carbs, choose a vegetable source that is high in fiber like broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, green beans, etc.

This way you wont have to deal with constipation.

Also, supplementing Omega 3's is a fantastic idea and recommended.

Workouts wont change much other than the stamina, overall one rep max wont change but the rep range will some.

I find it strange that I actually have more energy on keto diets.


----------



## DRED

Pscarb said:


> Peg - yes you are correct it would be a little extreme you could adjust the diet i suggest maybe this rotation.
> 
> *Day 1:*
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 4 egg whites
> 
> 2 whole eggs
> 
> 50g Oats
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> *Day 2:*
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 4 egg whites
> 
> 2 whole eggs
> 
> 50g Oats
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat 50g (dry weight) Basmati rice + 1Tbsp Olive oil/Flax oil
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat 50g (dry weight) Basmati rice + 1Tbsp Olive oil/Flax oil
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with Salad + 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> *Day 3:*
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 6 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 6 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 6 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> Repeat...
> 
> on the 7th day eat 300 g of carbs over the day.
> 
> hope this helps Peg...


hi paul what would 1 serving of cashews/peanuts weigh?

cheers


----------



## Tall

hackskii said:


> I find it strange that I actually have more energy on keto diets.


Same here - but I would phrase it as 'I have less lethargy' - which I put down to the lack of insulin spiking


----------



## hackskii

One drawback of keto diets is cortisol and also sluggish thyroid. But the worse sides is the band-aid smelling breath and I get some funky smell after 6 weeks that does not smell good at all.

Only way I can explain it is when I sit down I smell some crazy crotch funk or something.

Man, I get a massive complex when this happens.

If you do decide to do a keto diet, once you re-introduce the carbs you have to do this very slowly.


----------



## Rono26

Is swapping one of the portions on nuts for avacado an option?

Over what time frame would you reintroduce carbs?

Thoughts?


----------



## Reesy

Quick question. Doesn't 50g of oats have near on 30g of carbs in? Would it be better to just eat eggs instead for a keto diet? Was just wondering if it makes too much difference at breakfast time.


----------



## 3752

one serving of nuts/seeds is 50g in weight...

Advocado would fit the bill for replacing the nuts...

50g of oats do contain 30g of carbs but where are you getting the impression this is a Keto diet?? this is a carb cycling diet day 1/2 and 3 have all got different amounts of carbs plus this was created for a women....

there is no need to reintroduce the carbs as they where never taken out.....

guys i created this diet for a women and it was part of a whole plan you are seeing only half the picture....in my opinion Keto diets are a waste of time because at some point you will want to eat more carbs and then all your hard work will soon dissapear carb cycling is by far a much better way to eat in general...


----------



## Rono26

Paul - I was refering to the Diet you gave on page 1 of this thread - a Keto diet.


----------



## 3752

ok mate got you, although that diet is only used short term before you switch to a carb cycling diet like above...


----------



## pauly7582

Rono26 said:


> Paul - I was refering to the Diet you gave on page 1 of this thread - a Keto diet.


It was also 3 years ago mate. Opinions can change as we learn ;-)


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

hi Paul at the minute i am getting good gains in terms of my weights and progressing with them, i have posted up my routine before and got feedback off different ppl (feel free to take a look if you like to give you an idea of what i do)

But at the minute my BF is at around 22% and i want to lose BF without losing Muscle in fact i want to carry on gaining muscle if possible, so any suggestions in diet to do this

My stats are as follows;

22 years old

Natty trainer (at minute)

Train 4 days a week split

currently @ around 22% bf (wanting to get to around 10% if possible)

dont want to lose muscle mass if can help it and if possible want to carry in gaining muscle mass!

am currently just over 15st.

so in my situation where you want to gain muscle an lose BF what diet would you suggest????


----------



## hackskii

I think Paul would suggest diet.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

yh but what i mean is how would he do it as i have cut carbs but i wanted a sample template of how my diet should look if i was either zig zaging my calories/carbs or doing a carb deficit diet or what ever it is called!


----------



## 3752

what i would suggest to you is to do the diet on the first page for 6 weeks then switch to carb cycling, i put my training partner on a slightly modified version of this diet and he has lost 18lbs in 2 weeks obviously mostly water but then weight is weight....


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

by doing this would i still be able to keep/gain muscle mass?

Also would it be ok on this routine?

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/getting-started/26865-my-routine.html


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


If this is extreme would i be losing muscle as well as my BF?

Also would i be able to do the above mentioned routine plz comment!!!!!!!


----------



## 3752

jesus mate you dont want much do you...

if i was you at 22% BF i would concentrate on losing the fat then focus on the muscle...


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

so would you carry on doing that routine on that diet?


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

> jesus mate you dont want much do you...
> 
> if i was you at 22% BF i would concentrate on losing the fat then focus on the muscle...


what bf would you get down to then?

i do appreciate help n advice


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

sorry dnt mean 2 be a pain


----------



## 3752

training is training if you are benefiting from this routine then why change it??

i would say a good BF% to aim for is 15% then when you get there you will have the knowledge diet wise to focus your thoughts on building muscle...this diet will maintain muscle at the very least, if you follow it then you will drop fat that is a fact...


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

ok paul appreciate your advice mate maybe i will give it a try its just i didn't want my hard earned muscles being lost as that would surely be a step back wards even though i would be losing BF!


----------



## hackskii

Too aggressive dieting can cause some muscle loss, try to stick to around 2 pounds a week max.

Nice thing tho, the more bodyfat you have, kind of the more aggressive dieting you can do and spare more lean muslce mass.

Flip side is when trying to gain muscle when you have some good amount of bodyfat, you do gain muscle but fat too.

The leaner you are, the more muscle you will build when bulking.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

cheers Scott that explains a lot then in my situation as i have been cutting carbs down and tbh i have also been lifting heavier weights but also at the same time i think i have been gaining extra BF which would co-inside with what you have just said

So basically don't worry bout losing muscle mass as i will gain it back plus more after when bulking but with less BF is that correct????

See i think i did it back to front, i bulked b4 cutting when i think i should have cut and then bulked then cut again!!!!

Cheers m8


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

if i am gonna do clen is there anything else i have to do with it e.g PCT or anything like that?


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

sorry to seem so dumb but i am a fairly newboe to all this sort of thing especially gear


----------



## hackskii

No, clen needs no PCT, but your biggest bang for your buck will be diet.

When dieting try to eat often, eat smaller meals that contain fiber, up the protein.

Read the calorie is not a calorie thread on BOI, many tid bits of information will give you some clues to what not or what to do.

As long as you are doing resistance training, keeping the carbs lower GI, eating frequently, you will lose weight.

If done too aggressive then more muscle might be lost but the most aggressive can be done when bodyfat is high, once you get below or around 17 to 18 percent then try to only lose about a pound a week.


----------



## 3752

the diet at the begining chris has enough protein and fats so that you should not lose muscle, but as you lose BF you will lose size and you may think some of this is muscle i will say that as long as you are following this diet you will be fine i have used it on many guys and girls all with good results...


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.


whats this???

also this diet what would the calorie count be and also what is the macro count if you dont mind me asking?


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

will defo give it a try what diet pills do you reccomend taking with the clen????


----------



## 3752

romaine is lettuce salad mate....

i have the macros down some where not being funny chris as i am all up for helping mate but you need to help yourself sometimes mate as it is the best way to learn so use one of the many nutrition databases out their like fitday.com to get the values....

as for "diet pills" non would be my answer whilst you are taking clen but if you are going to rotate the clen then a decent OTC fat burner will suffice the only one i have used in the last 12 months is the fatburner from Extreme...


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

ok m8 will do, TBH i do like doing things myself as i do like working things out and also learning things but i just thought would ask!

you have helped loads m8 cheers the reason i asked about the fat burner is you said to take 1 3times a day in the 1st page or would you say not to in my case?


----------



## 3752

you have to understand chris this post was directed at someone else mate with entirly different cicumstances to yourself.

there is nothing wrong with asking mate in fact i encourage it but if you look up the values to these foods you will learn values to others which will in turn increase your overall knowledge but if i just post them up you learn nothing if you see what i mean....

now because you are using Clen then i would only use a Fatburner whilst on the off rotation to clen personelly i would not of had you use clen i would of gone down the OTC fatburner route first then the ECA route then on to clen...


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

oh ok i will try it that way mate cheers, i will try the diet then also try the OTC fat burner abd then a eca stack (which i have looked into btw) and then clen!

What OTC fat burner would you suggest then mate? cus as you probabily already know there are many many out there!


----------



## hackskii

Chris, diet first bro.

When diet stalls then you can add.

Good post Paul


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

TBH scott i jave tried diet and also cutting carbs but i find it hard to work out on cutting carbs as i dont think i was eating enough calories!

i understand the principle of eat less calories than you burn which equals losing weight but its hard to keep working out if your calories drop to low and its hard to find the level balance on it if you know what i mean especially for us newbies out there!!!!!

i will try this diet and see how i get on with it and also do a lot more cardio but if it does not work alonw\e then i will try other methods such as OTC or ECA or even clen.

TBH i have always found it hard to get my BF down even when i was going into the army and was losing weight by doing resistance and also doin circuit training but the BF for some reason was still fairly high!

I think it has a lot to do with my body type and as a kid i was not that active either so i think that has a lot to play on it as well, of course i could be wrong!!!!!


----------



## hackskii

Could be your body type, but I do think that if you modified your diet this would change things some.

If you are having problems with working out while cutting carbs it is probably due to you being a sugar burner, this will change after your body accepts the fact that it is forced to use fat for fuel when using a traditional ketogenic diet. It will take anywhere from 3 to around 5 days to switch the switch from sugar burning to fat burning.

Ketones then will be used for fuel, once this happens you feel pretty damn good with no high and lows, pretty consistant.

Two people can diet, using the vary same amount of carbs, on low GI, and the other high GI, gram for gram they provide the same fuel, but at the end the higher GI diet will yield more bodyfat than the lower GI carbs, even though the total calories are the same.

So much for the calorie in and calorie out thing.

Yes, you will need to burn more than you take in, but what you take in is as important as restricting the calories.

I have to go to a meeting, I will put some thoughts down after.

I will give you some ideas on how you could do things to avoid excess muscle loss or fat gain during dieting.

That wont come from a pill....lol


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

cheers m8


----------



## ba baracuss

Would it not be a better idea to just concentrate on losing the excess weight/fat through cardio and a diet tailored solely to losing weight, and when that goal has been achieved, then look at putting some muscle on?

It appears from your posts that you're struggling to eat the right things to lose weight and grow muscle at the same time, which is understandable.

I would just try and lose the weight first myself.


----------



## Rono26

> If you are having problems with working out while cutting carbs it is probably due to you being a sugar burner, this will change after your body accepts the fact that it is forced to use fat for fuel when using a traditional ketogenic diet. It will take anywhere from 3 to around 5 days to switch the switch from sugar burning to fat burning.


As posted earlier in this thread I have started the Keto diet on Page 1 of this thread which I am doing for 4-6weeks depending on results.

Im 6 days in and its going well...

On day 4 i really struggled with my weights session, day 5 I had the biggest cravings for sugary/carb food since starting. Today (day 6) i blitzed my session - having read what Hackski wrote in the quote above, im thinking this is the reason why! Any thoughts?

Also for ChrisPez, ive been on an ECA stack, with moderate Ephedrine and Asprin,and a good amount of Caffine - I have found this as an energy boost for body and mind before my morning cardio and weights session.

PScarb - Im actually really enjoying the diet, not been hungry at all, and apart from the cravings on day 5 its all been good. Hopefully i will get the results with it. Will post on here. I take it I shouldnt be hungry??

I have cut the eggs from 8 to 6 as the ones i have are quite large and 6 seems plenty... Unless you see a problem with that?

I do however have a Party that I have to attend 3 weeks in. Which will mean eating poorly and drinking... will this seriously impact upon my diet, and what im trying to achieve above and beyond the excess calories?

Im guessing using a product like eat and cheat wont help as its the carbs that will be doing the damage?!?

Thanks for the advice fella's.


----------



## hackskii

Once the body switches from burning sugars to burning fats you wont be hungry and watch what happens to your energy.

I feel better on keto diets than regular ones. 1 rep max is the same but stamina is reduced.


----------



## takeone

if following this sort of diet on a cutter would you not even have fast actng carbs in your pwo shake,

would you just have protein in your shake or would you add some fat with it?


----------



## 3752

your PWO shake would be protein only, you have to understand guys this is an extreme diet and will not fit everyone.

this is something i use to blow out all the cobwebs when i prep a BB for show prep before i switch to carb cycling..


----------



## takeone

thanks pscarb i think ill give it a go for a bit.


----------



## Rono26

Hi guys, Im now in to week 3 of the keto diet posted on page 1. Results are going well, and im happy on the diet. However, Ive been experiancing a very dry mouth when training. Do you think this is down to the diet, or the ECA stack im taking??


----------



## 3752

could be both or you could be not drinking enough water...


----------



## s.g

hi pscarb jut a quick question, with the carb cycling diet you posted on page three you said it was for a woman, what changes would you make for a man?

also you say you do the first one too blow off the cobwebs before doing the carb cycling, how many weeks would you do it for?

thanks


----------



## dan2004

hackskii said:


> I dont weigh meat, eat what can fit in your hand, one serving.
> 
> Ice water, yes.
> 
> 40 minute walk, hammer water and some caffene or fat burner before.
> 
> Total body workouts or circuit training is really best. Do that on the off days from your cardio.
> 
> plateau will hit about week 2-4. This is un-avoidable, will happen whether you want it or not, just the way it is.
> 
> Reason being the body does not want to stay in a state of weight loss.
> 
> The body does not want to stay in anabolism either.
> 
> The body is really smart.
> 
> All you can do is your best. If you have this, you should secceed.
> 
> But a bit of knowledge is always good too.


Scott , is it true that the colder the water the more calories you burn ? LOL sorry if thats not true and a dumb question ?


----------



## Rono26

I believe if you drink 6 litres of Ice cold water a day, you would burn an extra 150Kcal than if you were to drink the water at room temperature.

Ive been following the Keto diet on page 1, im now in week 4, BF back down from 19% to 16% with a 6kg weight loss. I cant believe how easy its been and how good ive been feeling on it... just get tired a bit earlier at night. Was planning on doing it for 6 weeks total, then on to a carb cycling diet.So....

PScarb... I too wanted to be cheeky and ask what changes you would make to the carb cycling diet in this thread for a man. Im still researching info on it, but any help and advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Rono26

oh and on the dry mouth font, i was sure i was drinking enough water, but ive up'ed it, and im not getting it so much.


----------



## hackskii

dan2004 said:


> Scott , is it true that the colder the water the more calories you burn ? LOL sorry if thats not true and a dumb question ?


Yes, one gallon of Ice water burns 150 calories with doing absolutly nothing.


----------



## minisam

Hi experts.

PS, BIG, I have a few questions. I have started this diet yesterday. I would say so I feel no hanger etc.

Few questions about preparation.

8 eggs: Yesterday I drinken mixed 8 raw eggs, not so nice, but couldn't imagine to eat scramble 8 eggs.

Today I had 8 scramble eggs with one onion, but onion has carbs isn't?

What is the best way of eating this eggs?

What is better raw or scramble? and why if I can ask?

Lean meat: I understand so we talking about chicken brest oir any lean meat? Have to be coocked or can be grilled on for ex. Lean Mean Fat Grilling Machine?

I'm taking hydroxycut Hardcore and Creatine X4 (not sure if should take Creatine thats why I'm asking), Reflex Peptide fusion (is there a difference between this one and pro peptide?).

Drinking 6 liters of iced evian, and doing 40 minuts cardio in the morning, 40 minuts squash in the middle of the day, and 1.5h a day all muscles (10 series 50% normal weight)

Is there any thing else?

Thank you for you time for anwering.


----------



## minisam

I forgot about Hackskii, ofcourse will be nice if you could answer too


----------



## minisam

And one more question, do I have to drink Peptide? I feel so full on this diet, water is filling me up so much, and do I have to have 3x 8 oz meat? Can I have 2 times? I mean Its a lot food for me.


----------



## 3752

minisam said:


> Few questions about preparation.
> 
> 8 eggs: Yesterday I drinken mixed 8 raw eggs, not so nice, but couldn't imagine to eat scramble 8 eggs.
> 
> i would never advise anyone to drink raw eggs definatly not a thing to do in my opinion i boil mine or scramble them but in saying that 8 eggs is for a larger muscled guy if you are under 200lbs then 6 eggs is fine
> 
> Lean meat: I understand so we talking about chicken brest oir any lean meat? Have to be cooked or can be grilled on for ex. Lean Mean Fat Grilling Machine?
> 
> i either roast or stir fry mine in water but the lean mean is fine
> 
> I'm taking hydroxycut Hardcore and Creatine X4 (not sure if should take Creatine thats why I'm asking), Reflex Peptide fusion (is there a difference between this one and pro peptide?).
> 
> no difference to be fair in fact i use Extreme Protein, you are fine with the creatine as well.
> 
> Drinking 6 liters of iced evian, and doing 40 minuts cardio in the morning, 40 minuts squash in the middle of the day, and 1.5h a day all muscles (10 series 50% normal weight)
> 
> that is alot of exercising in one day and i would say you would overtrain at some point.


----------



## minisam

Thanks PS.

I have a lot weight to loose. I have 150 kg +/- 330 pounds

Hell lot to lose.

Neck 19"

Bicep 16" arm extended straight out in front of my body

Forearm 14" arm extended straight out in front of my body

Chest 55" at nipple height

Weist 55.5" just above navel

Hips 49"

Thigh 30"

Calf 20"

Maybe you have any other diet suggestion?

Thank you.

Adam


----------



## -S-K-

Pscarb said:


> yes mate it is but you still have to walk at a decent pace to reach the 65% mark..
> 
> good advice Hackskii mate i disagree on the weighing of food if you don't weigh the food you don't know what to change and by how much but like you say we do things diffrent over here like driving on the correct side of the road.....
> 
> weigh all the food before cooking fatburner
> 
> a serving of Peanut Butter is approx 1 tablespoon..


I wouldn't argue with you as you have a lot more knowledge and experience than me on this but when I was trying to shed body fat I found running the most effective, I didn't do it in the morning before breakfast but I did it at about 1-2pm. 3 months of that and I lostabout 2-3 stone and dropped in body fat drastically, from 20ish% down to 10% (thats an average I guess and probly a little innacurate but it's what the electronic body fat tester states each time 9.3%/9.7% is the usual).

Anyway I did run at 12kph for about 30 minutes, I really aimed for 500 calories each time, I know that you should focus more on intensity rather than time but I was sort of aiming to try beat my time each time. My diet was nowhere near the kind of diet you would have, probly not the most effective but guess it worked even though it left me in a lowish amount of calories. Im talking bran flakes with skimmed milk for breakfast, 2 slices wholemeal bread + chicken slices for lunch and a yogurt and say steak,potatoes and vegetables for dinner including 3 whey shakes throughout the day.


----------



## -S-K-

dan2004 said:


> Scott , is it true that the colder the water the more calories you burn ? LOL sorry if thats not true and a dumb question ?


Makes sense tbh, if it's ice cold the body has to warm it up. Same if your freezing cold your body will no doubt burn a lot of calories trying to keep you warm no?


----------



## 3752

of course running you would lose weight as calories are being burnt but for fat burning a decent diet and walking on a treadmill is better...in my opinion..

dropping weight is not that hard really dropping and keeping fat off is the key whilst making it part of your everyday life rather than making it a chore you have to weigh up other factors like keeping it off long term, health and how you look...

i think the amount of extra calories needed when you drink cold water would definatly make no difference in the amoutn of fat you have it is nice to think it would but i doubt it....

if you eat a protein rich diet made up of whole foods then you will burn more calories than you do when you eat carbs or fat so going on that fact you could enhance your diet by eating more whole food protein sources...


----------



## hackskii

Remember though, carbs and fats provide the fuel.

If you are low fat, then you have to eat some carbs.

If you are low carb, then you will have to eat some fats.

If you eat only protein then this is not only the least efficient source of fuel, it will tell the body to use protein as a prefrence for fuel, at this point it might not target bodyfats as protein is now the primary fuel the body is using.

If you want to do a keto diet, then it is protein and fats, it does not matter if the meat is lean, hell buy the fatty meats, this is just fine.

I think prople get too hung up on meat fats.

When on a keto diet fats should be the priority source of fuel, once this happens, it is easy for the body to slip in to fat burning from your stores as needed.


----------



## 3752

i would say it is better to add good fats like extra virgin olive oil or macadamia oil to leaner cuts of meat like fillet steak or chicken than it is to eat fatter meats exception being salmon....


----------



## hackskii

Pscarb said:


> i would say it is better to add good fats like extra virgin olive oil or macadamia oil to leaner cuts of meat like fillet steak or chicken than it is to eat fatter meats exception being salmon....


For dieting I would say totally....

For the lean guy I would say eat all the saturated fats you like........

Nothing builds strong bodies like fatty meat, not to mention it tasts killer.

Carnivore's can build an impressive body.

Strength is there, aggression is there.

For the most part the longer you are in the game the more modifications need to be addressed.

Getting old is a bitch..I gotta tell ya...........

But young dudes can bend the rules big time...............either way........


----------



## 3752

your as old as you feel mate 

i agree that to many guys off season try to cut to much fat out of their diet in my opinion this is good for trans fats but saturated fats help produce testosterone although this is not an excuse to eat 300g of fat from McDonalds ever day


----------



## minisam

Hi guys,

Starting diet in monday ...

Getting good. Lost 8 kg in 4 days so far. Would say amazing. Aswell lost 3 inch on my belly.

Saturday comming, and I just wondering Paul if you could tell me what "type" of food I should eat in this 300g carbs in 1h. What you are eating?

I have to tell you so I cant eat that amount of food what you write in diet. Is that important to keep it like it is.

I'm doing 8 eggs in the morning (can I have couple teaspoons of mustardwith it?)

I have a peptide (1 Spoon with 250 ml of water - should I do 2 spoonswith 500ml?)

I have my chicken with romaine

And about 8pm I have an another chicken with peanuts/cashew

and about gettingtoday to 5 liters of water.

And believe me Im full ...

Taking Fatburn 2x day and creatine 1 a day (thats are producent limits)

I bought a Keto test and is showing Large 8 there next to it Large 16 which is max.

Thanks for your time ...

Polish Adam


----------



## 3752

the 1hr carb meal can be anything you want mate and to be honest do not worry about it being spot on the 300g mark...something like a pizza with ice cream for afters is ideal or a chines/indian...it is in their to stimulate your metabolism and it will work, yes you will gain a few pounds but this is water it is impossible to gain fat from one meal.....after a few days back on diet you will have lost all the water weight and your metabolism will be revved up to burn more fat...


----------



## minisam

Thank you Paul,

What about amount of food what Im eating now. Is less than i diet it is important?


----------



## hackskii

Mustard is just fine, also kills heartburn and cramps too....

I would consider some kelp in your diet to keep the thyroid revved up.

Keto diets can slow the thyroid down some.

If you can choose a carb to replenish glycogen stores I would choose whole grain brown rice.

Simple sugars can get blood sugars to spike and thus insulin will spike, not the best method for fat loss actually.


----------



## 3752

not the best for fatloss but the whole point to the carb meal once a week is to spike the metabolism which will in turn rev up the thyroid and nothing revs the metabolism like a good old pizza


----------



## hackskii

Pscarb said:


> not the best for fatloss but the whole point to the carb meal once a week is to spike the metabolism which will in turn rev up the thyroid and nothing revs the metabolism like a good old pizza


Oh man, pizza is the best. I am craving it so bad right now.

That is one food I just cant stop eating once I start.


----------



## 3752

you are craving it what about me


----------



## hackskii

Pscarb said:


> you are craving it what about me


OMG, I had a pizza last night and it was soooo good.

BBQ chicken, oh man, I could not stop eating.

I gotta stop that stuff, woke up with some acid reflux from that little goodie.


----------



## Guest

Pscarb said:


> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of romaine with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of pro peptide with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


Would normal whey protien be okay to take on this diet insted of pro-peptide?

its just that ive got my order today of 5kg impact whey protien, from myprotien.co.uk and cant really afford to go out and buy pro-peptide.

I really want to start this diet and get rid of my un-wanted bodyfat then start putting on some muscle in time for the summer.

I think Pscarb would be best to answer this as he was the one who created the diet, please let me know if you can because I plan to start tis diet in the morning,

thanks alot.


----------



## 3752

yes mate the stuff you got from MP is fine.....


----------



## Guest

thanks Pscarb, I will start it tomorrow now

Also would it be okay or make a differance if I swaped the 8oz lean meat in meal 6 with 30-40g of un-flavoured Milk protien conentrate (mixed with water) as ill be having this about 9.30 at night and will be in bed shortly after, so it would digest slowly? I would still take the serving of nuts with this.

Or would I be better off sticking to the lean meat (probally chicken), what ever you think is best I will do, thanks agian.


----------



## 3752

lean protein is going to be much better for you than a supplement, the nuts will slow the absorbtion down to last a few hrs overnight although salmon would be an even better choice as the good fats contained in this would slow the digestion down on its own.


----------



## hackskii

Monounsaturated fats lower the Glycemic load of a meal.

The implications of this during dieting is huge.

Paul is totally correct here...........


----------



## Guest

Okay ill stick to the lean meat at night, thanks for the help.

Ill keep you's posted on my progress, Cheers lads.


----------



## dudeson

So I just had a quick question. I walked on the treadmill for 40 min. This morning, rotating from uphill, to faster pace, to fast uphill, just mixing it up. I read that this walking would be the best idea for burning fat. What I was doing was running or going hard on the eliptical. My question: how come the body burns more fat walking like this? Rather than if I were to really go hard running or doing the eliptical? I read that your body utilizes carbs rather than fat when you go too hard? What if your on a keto diet and your carbs are very restricted, what then? I have quite a bit of BF but a lot of muscle. I want to lose jBF quick as I am in a competition at work, $900 to the winner, but that's just icing on the cake for the real benefits will be afforded me through the hard work. Just wondering if I should focus on lower impact, longer duration cardio. Thanks guys!


----------



## hackskii

Sitting and watching the TV the body burns predominatly fat.

Sprinting generally burns more if not all carbs as it source of fuel.

Different workouts burn different things for different times long after the workout is done.

You are correct in thinking that slow burning targets more fat during cardio.

But high intensity training offers more fat burning for longer period of time after training.


----------



## dudeson

well pscarb said on first page to not get over 65% and to just walk, is this the best for overall fat burning or should I keep going a little harder, say jogging or doing the elliptical? I don't go crazy by any means, because I'm about 250, running even a mile and1/2 is a challenge, or I usually try and burn about 300 to 350 cal. on the elliptical trying either to get to that mark faster or burning more cal. than I did last time in the same amount of time. I have been taking in about 30 grams of carbs for the last few days, and was wondering how the body would burn carbs if there is so few available? Also how many grams of fat should I shoot for? Thanks this thread is really helpful.


----------



## dudeson

That's interesting. But if the point of the keto diet is to switch your body from carb-burning to fat burning, wouldn't the higher intensity force my body to dig deeper into my fat stores for energy? Not trying to contradict anyone just seeking the best understanding possible.


----------



## hackskii

I think HIIT offers a better bang for your buck but in your situation being as heavy as you are (same as me), I tend to get injuries before the weight is all off.

I think in your situation the walking would be good to get all your joints acclimated, as well as the muscles.

Once you drop some weight you can either increase the pace, or duration.

Start slow, the race is long, finishing it is what it is all about.

I am re-habing a knee right now and if I do too much it actually is compromising what I am trying to do.


----------



## dudeson

Yes, finally, it seems all my friends have perfect healthy joints, and I feel like an old geezer around them. If it's not my back, which always hurts at least a little, then it's my knees, and since I have had 4 knee surgeries, they alway hurt too. As soon as I get any kind of momentum going, BAM!, injury. I take joint supps, drink water, use good form, but it's always something. And if it's not the before mentioned two, then my tennis elbow starts to flare up. I will take it slow, for now...I don't want to get hurt(more) and then not be able to do anything.


----------



## carly

just read this thread!! fab read!! thanks paul xx


----------



## BigDick

Hey guys what a great read.

Have been on the low fat low carb high protien diet for 2months now and need a change so will definately be trying the diet on page 1.

Just a couple of quick questions,

I train first thing in the morning will the diet still work?

What should I eat before the workout?

Thanks for the great advice

Cheers Rich


----------



## dudeson

Do you just do weights? Cardio? Both? It seems most reliable sources say to train empty, in the morning, I usually have coffee before I go in the morning, but that's only for cardio.

That's a really good question: If someone was trying to cut, and they are doing their workouts, (lifting and cardio) what should they eat before they go?

Or what if they were just planning on doing the weights in the morning, what would be the best pre-workout?


----------



## SHAROOTS

does the keto diet increase cholesterol?


----------



## 3752

no keto diet should not increase cholesterol if you choose good fats..

as for the cardio issue yes HIIT cardio will burn more calories but these calories will be more from glycogen than fat, moderate cardio will tap more into the fat reserves than HIIT whilst preserving muscle...i have done both types and found Moderate cardio the better of the two.

the rate is 65-75%


----------



## SHAROOTS

I take it the keto is a quick way of burning the fat?


----------



## SHAROOTS

I really wanna give this a go, sounds the solution for me


----------



## SHAROOTS

Could anyone give me any advice on this diet? Where can you buy the strips?


----------



## hackskii

SHAROOTS said:


> does the keto diet increase cholesterol?


No, it actually lowers it...............

Remember fat is a priority for fuel on a keto diet, all fats get targeted for fuel, even the ones in the blood.

Keto diets in the beginning benefit lipid profiles, long term maybe something diffrent but initially it improves cholesterol profiles.


----------



## SHAROOTS

hackskii said:


> No, it actually lowers it...............
> 
> Remember fat is a priority for fuel on a keto diet, all fats get targeted for fuel, even the ones in the blood.
> 
> Keto diets in the beginning benefit lipid profiles, long term maybe something diffrent but initially it improves cholesterol profiles.


Excellent Hackskii. I think i'm gonna go with what pscarb diet below, but could it be tweeked a bit here and there?

Meal 1:

8 whole eggs Can these be done in omelete with say ham, tomato, onion or cheese? could I start off with 6 instead of 8?

Meal 2:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water. I just bought Extreme Build & Recover would that do instead of Extreme Protein? If not I can get the protein

Meal 3:

8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar Would Lettuce, Scallions and cucumber be ok for green salad? Could tomato be added?

Meal 4:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts Would a handful of cashews/peanuts be classed as a serving?

Meal 6:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet. 1 cheat meal a week, would Indian food be ok?

do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.

I havent got any fatburner yet, What is the best option ECA, Clen or t3/4?

Where is best to buy ketosis strips?


----------



## SHAROOTS

Any ideas guys on the above diet and questions?


----------



## hackskii

All that stuff is fine but I do see one flaw in your design of the keto diet.

It is not protein that is the main staple, it is actually fats.

Drop the protein shakes and eat foods, this will work better anyway for dieting as the meat will take longer to digest than the shakes, you will feel more satisfied too.

Be carefull with the nuts, they can tip you over the edge on too many carbs on a keto diet, choose macadamia nuts, they are the highest in fat, lowest in carbs.

Vegetables are cool, just carefull of not eating too many of the calorie dense ones, green ones would be great.


----------



## DaveN

The Extreme Build and Recover contains Dextrose which would be a no-no mate. Better off with a pure whey if you are adamant on using them, and mixed in water, not milk. As a guide I took in 40g of carbs a day. Had to drop the cashews (as hackskii rightly points out) they kept me out of ketosis and at times uncomfotably bloated.

Tomatoes, SHOULD be OK, but if you find you're not hitting a ketosis state after 3 or four days, these could be the culprits.

The only 'veg' I've been using was a large handful of green leaves like spinach, or some florets of brocolli.

This is what I found, you may be less sensitive to carb intake than me.


----------



## SHAROOTS

hackskii said:


> All that stuff is fine but I do see one flaw in your design of the keto diet.
> 
> It is not protein that is the main staple, it is actually fats.
> 
> Drop the protein shakes and eat foods, this will work better anyway for dieting as the meat will take longer to digest than the shakes, you will feel more satisfied too.
> 
> Be carefull with the nuts, they can tip you over the edge on too many carbs on a keto diet, choose macadamia nuts, they are the highest in fat, lowest in carbs.
> 
> Vegetables are cool, just carefull of not eating too many of the calorie dense ones, green ones would be great.


The only reason I was saying protein shake was because it was in the original post. What about after training should I not take a shake then? As for the nuts I've never had macadamia before. I am going to start this on monday and put my log on the forum. Would it be still ok to do heavy weights mon,wed,fri and football tues,thurs,sat? the football sessions are quite hard.


----------



## SHAROOTS

DaveN said:


> The Extreme Build and Recover contains Dextrose which would be a no-no mate. Better off with a pure whey if you are adamant on using them, and mixed in water, not milk. As a guide I took in 40g of carbs a day. Had to drop the cashews (as hackskii rightly points out) they kept me out of ketosis and at times uncomfotably bloated.
> 
> Tomatoes, SHOULD be OK, but if you find you're not hitting a ketosis state after 3 or four days, these could be the culprits.
> 
> The only 'veg' I've been using was a large handful of green leaves like spinach, or some florets of brocolli.
> 
> This is what I found, you may be less sensitive to carb intake than me.


Could I have brocoli, cabbage or spinach with the lean meat? How long were u on the keto diet mate? did you get good results?


----------



## DaveN

SHAROOTS said:


> Could I have brocoli, cabbage or spinach with the lean meat? How long were u on the keto diet mate? did you get good results?


This is my second week, I'm down around 8lb but the first week was a lot of trial and error.

Well, error really. 

Yes those veg are fine, but stick with small amounts....


----------



## hackskii

Yah, just eat whole foods, vegetables like broccoli, spinish, asparagus, green beans are all ok, keep the fats high and the protein moderate, after all too much protein will kick out out of ketosis, just like carbs.

Try to keep the carbs under 30 grams to get into ketosis.

Eggs, chease are just fine on a keto diet.


----------



## SHAROOTS

DaveN said:


> This is my second week, I'm down around 8lb but the first week was a lot of trial and error.
> 
> Well, error really.
> 
> Yes those veg are fine, but stick with small amounts....


How long do you plan to stay on the keto diet? where do u get the the strips?


----------



## SHAROOTS

Hackskii do I not need a post work out shake straight after gym? How long should I stay on the diet? Will the fat return after diet? I've heard from guys in work that they put weight/fat back on after they were on the atkins, but they never trained I suppose!


----------



## SHAROOTS

These are probably stupid questions but how much body fat can be lost? And how long should I stay on for?


----------



## 3752

that diet is not supposed to be a keto diet unfortunalt many think it is because of the lack of carbs....

the diet will work and work well although it is very hard to stick to....i do not advocate long term zero carb diets for guys who lift weights


----------



## hackskii

SHAROOTS said:


> Hackskii do I not need a post work out shake straight after gym? How long should I stay on the diet? Will the fat return after diet? I've heard from guys in work that they put weight/fat back on after they were on the atkins, but they never trained I suppose!


Well, there are two reasons for doing the PWO shake, that is to replenish glycogen stores (which we are not gonna do here), and to replenish the protein for recovery.

But, beings that whey by itself spikes insulin to some degree, we want to keep the ketones working so I would rather you eat some hard boiled eggs or something.

Grab some fatty meat, what ever, but you wont need a shake on a keto diet as the priority is not proteins but fats.

Too much protein will actually or can kick you out of ketosis.

Just read a great article today on keto diets and feeling of well being.


----------



## SHAROOTS

Thanks Pscarb and Hackskii I'm gonna shelve the Extreme build & recover for a while until I come off this diet. Im going to supermarket today to get the weeks food which will be Fish, Pork, Turkey, Bacon, Steak for lean meat, Cabbage, Spinach, Broccoli, Lettuce & Spring Onions and plenty of eggs. NO Bread, rice, pasta or potatoes! Does this look ok? I want to start on monday!


----------



## hackskii

Yes, that looks fine.....


----------



## SHAROOTS

Thanks Hackskii mate. Does anyone know were I can buy the strips to test when im in ketosis?


----------



## adesign

Boots? ketostix mine are called! Can more than likely get them cheaper online.


----------



## SHAROOTS

Thanks adesign, i'll hit boots tomorrow. How much are they and how many do u get?


----------



## adesign

I think I paid ~£10 and I believe I got 30 strips! For a while I was using two a day as it was always on my mind. Now I check once or twice a week. Note that you dont have to turn them ultra dark for you to be in ketosis. Trace amounts are sufficient I believe!


----------



## SHAROOTS

Ok thanks mate, I'll get them tomorrow and start on monday!


----------



## SHAROOTS

Hi guys I am going to start this diet below suggested by paul tomorrow. I plan to do the diet for 6 weeks as he has suggested then onto carb cycling. I just have a few more questions before I start.

Meal 1:

8 whole eggs

Meal 2:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts

Meal 6:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.

pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.

do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.

take a fatburner 3x daily

take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...

this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


----------



## SHAROOTS

Bump


----------



## SHAROOTS

iS TEA OR COFFEE ALLOWED ON THIS DIET?


----------



## adesign

Diet seems okay to me but a bit to much whey shakes imo. Might of been stated here already but too much protein will slow down/prevent the body from entering ketosis. I dont think you need the clen either mate. Maybe add that in when you get to lower bf% figures and hit a stalling point even then I think it would be best to get over it some other way.

Theres always a limit to the amount of food you can eat, unless its something that takes up more cals to eat than it contains! I do what Hackskii does and just grab a handful.

I have 3 cups of coffee a day with no sugar or alike. Its good for weight loss and helps fuel work out sessions. I would have green tea as it also aids weight loss. Normal tea should be fine with no sugars etc but go easy on the milk.


----------



## hackskii

Yah, drop the shakes, the priority is on fats not protein for a keto diet, too many shakes can result in kicking out out of ketosis, which is the whole point of being in ketosis.


----------



## beanz1

Hi all

just started the below diet on monday which is based on (read as almost identicle) as the diet on the first page.

Meal 1:

5 whole eggs

Meal 2:

Two scoops of whey & two scoops casein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

7-8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

Two scoops of whey & two scoops casein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

7-8 oz. lean meat with 50g of almonds or walnuts

Meal 6:

7-8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of 50g almonds

fatburner 2-3 x daily

plus 5-6 litres of water perday (mainly to wash the damn almonds down)

seem to be dropping weight well:

monday at 8 am before breakfast weighed 14 stone 12.5

tuesday at 8 am before breakfast weighed 14 stone 10

wednesday at 8 am before breakfast weighed 14 stone 8.5

but will see how that works out after a full week.

anyway

in the original post that pscarb posted said to take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...

now this isnt a problem as i ordered some clen and T3 a week back as i was going to use both these compunds with a different diet but decided to try this one instead. clen and T3 is arriving tomorrow :innocent:

would it be safe to run T3 alonside this diet aswell as clen and fatburners?

if it isnt ill just save the T3 for a later date.

oh BTW im 28, just shy of 6 foot and train 3-4 days gym and have been doing light cardio (i.e 40 min walk) each day. no idea what my BF% is:blush: but body fat is around my gut / love handles and to a lesser degree chest. no bingo wings or turkey neck

cheers for your help with this.


----------



## hackskii

Whole foods over shakes.

Id drop the T3 for now.

Try and vary your fats more than peanut butter and olive oil.

Try swapping some salmon for your shakes for some of those.


----------



## JawD

Very interesting read these stickies (duh, thats why they're stickies!). Anyway, Im wondering, I know from reading up its likely that that the best way to tackle fat burning, is a keto diet or timed carbs. I'm wondering though what the next best option would be?

I dont want to "diet" as such. What I do now or the way I eat now is what I want to be my normal and not something Im going to just to for 6-8 weeks and then change. So Im just reading on different methods etc. Im also not looking for a quick fix. Ive made steady progress over 12 months. Im now thinking of the next 12 months. What can I change in my eating and training habits to keep making progress or better progress?

In my head I have that eating too little with leave me with reduced energy for training and likely lead to muscle loss. Also that BBers generally eat big but loose fat and this is down to carb manipulation.

At the moment, Id say I was eating 90% clean, just a basic sensible approach. Eating P/C/F each meal during the day and my last carbs are generally 6pm. I maybe have 1 or 2 at the most dodgy things during the week. I dont mean stuff like pizza, but things like say a jar of curry sauce or a pasta sauce which has sugar (usually maybe 15g?) though I have these with alot of chicken and maybe a little whole pasta or rice.

So, as I say, Im just wondering about the effectiveness of loosing fat while eating "fairly" clean, cutting out late carbs etc.

Oh, and training wise Im happy. Im doing a 3 day split and 3-4 40min light cardio sessions a week. If anything I think I maybe need to add a couple more cardio sessions in.


----------



## 3752

keto style diets are not for everyone i only use them when begining my prep or when i need to kickstart other peoples diets....

when i am back in the gym from my surgery i am going to be experimenting with bulking but using a diet that incorperates a meal of Carbs and Protein then Protein and Fats then Carbs and Protein and so on....i am hoping this will allow me to gain weight whilst maintaining a decent condition


----------



## beanz1

hackskii said:


> Whole foods over shakes.
> 
> Id drop the T3 for now.
> 
> Try and vary your fats more than peanut butter and olive oil.
> 
> Try swapping some salmon for your shakes for some of those.


cheers for the advice.

dont really like salmon but will stomach it:mellow:

roll on saturday and that big pizza


----------



## hackskii

JawD, the Zone diet would be my first pick.

40/30/30

Carbs/protein/fats

I have cut on that and it works well, nothing gets cycled.


----------



## bogman

Just read this sticky - very useful info in here - thanks guys. I don't want to loose a lot of weight (probably about 14lb), and want to limit muscle loss as much as possible. So, I'm going to do a carb cycling diet rather than keto.


----------



## McQueen

could you plz tell me what time i should be having the last meal.Also when this diet was put together where abouts did the workout fit in?

*EDIT*

Would there be any benefit to being on cycle while doing the diet?


----------



## uclanRL

I realise this thread hasn't been posted in for a while, but hopefully someone could answer a couple of quick questions please.



> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.


The original diet, as posted a fair few years back. I'm about 170lbs, 5ft 10 and 15% BF

Would it be ok to have 6 eggs as opposed to 8?

Where in the diet would it be wise to implement some Omega 3's, along with MV's etc? And how many?

I've read through the majority of this thread and still a little fuzzy around the training scheme. I tend to go to the gym around 8am as its the quietest time. Would it be wise to do 30/40mins 65% cardio followed by weights, or vice versa? Or should I keep them seperate? Also, I recall reading a split routine of 10 sets of 10, is this correct?

Last question? This 300 carbs meal on the saturday - can this really be anything?

Thanks in advance for any help, I really appreciate it and looking at starting this diet on monday


----------



## 3752

8 eggs is a starting point not everyone will be able to eat this amount so yes you can adjust this amount.

there is no need to add Omega 3 capsules into this diet as you get plenty of good fats....

training would not be covered in this thread as this section is about diet not training, make a post in the correct section of the board and you will be advised....

yes the carb meal on a saturday can be anything


----------



## ste247

i realise this thread is prety old know but ill ask here fist and see if i get a reply......ive been following the dave palumbo cut diet for 8 weeks now and iam exactly 4 weeks out from my show iam thinking of switching over to a carb cycling diet but iam worryed of a rebound and gaining weight do you think this is wise to do i only have a couple of lbs left to lose plus iam thinking also iam might come in a bit fuller on the day by reintroducing carbs now cheers all


----------



## Jimmy1

imo dont change anything now

it may effect your condition too much

just imo


----------



## FATBOY

if you are nearly there and are happy with the way its going then why change it .

now if your not happy and you feel its not working then you may need to make some changes ,

do you have sombody with experience to look at you and tell you if you realy need to make any changes ,

4 weeks isnt a great deal of time but you can do a lot in that time time

fb


----------



## ste247

FATBOY said:


> if you are nearly there and are happy with the way its going then why change it .
> 
> now if your not happy and you feel its not working then you may need to make some changes ,
> 
> do you have sombody with experience to look at you and tell you if you realy need to make any changes ,
> 
> 4 weeks isnt a great deal of time but you can do a lot in that time time
> 
> fb


no m8 ive got no one looking after me i allways do my prep on my own but this is the first time ive done low carb all the way through but now i feel that if i reintroduce only a small amount of carbs i will rebound.....ive had enough of the palumbo diet and feel that ive been on it long enough tbh iam starting to feel a bit crap more than i normaly do at this stage so i was thinking carb cycling to keep my sanity and mybe get the last bit of fat off and fill up a bit...but at this stage aim reluctant to chnge anything ive only got 3.5 week untill my carb up so i might just ride the storm lol


----------



## GTP

Hey sounds like me doing the same thing. Im just a normal guy trying to get ready to go on holiday without looking like Mr Blobby.

At 5ft 9in and at start of year I was 15st 8lbs, and had just followed a training routine and calorie count of 3500.

I put on a stone in one month, mostly fat previous to start of year. So I joined this forum and decided to follow the advice and (apprehensively) got some appetite suppresants from America (not illegal to possess) joined the missus on a slimming world diet (red/original days allows ALL the protein eggs veggies low gi fruit you need to follow the recommended protein fibre low carb nutrient guide given by the moderators) PLUS.. The wife is happy to buy and cook (with help) as normal without groaning about it (a miracle!).

This covers all the problems I had before as a guy on shifts trying to do extreme what most normal people tries to do going to the gym (lose fat down to 10% and tone up/gain muscle afterwards).

Im now 13st 8lb and in gym 4 times a week have just got another dose of suppresants looking to get down to 11 st and 10% BF (about 25% at mo).

I find because i walk alot in my job for 8 hours a day as long as I dont eat any rubbish I lose weight at 3lb a week without cardio.

Like you said your not worried about muscle loss as you can put it back on after you lose all the wobbly bits. I think following a diet is so difficult for the average person and seeing its taken months of effort and trial to get these genuine results for me I've earned the right to voice my opinion on this subject. Its not ideal to lose weight while not trying to eat 1g/lb of bodyweight in protein as you lower your metabolism alot but from not killing myself with allout workouts or cardio in morning on empty stomache(ugh) i am getting results I really want at mo.


----------



## Deano!

question may have already been asked i havent read all the pages, is there a guise/restriction on how long you should actualy do the keto diet for?


----------



## CK1

Quick question re supplements on keto diet:

- would you still include BCAA + Glutamine pre cardio and during weights?


----------



## GSleigh

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


Random question...

BUT i couldnt ea 8 whole eggs in 1 go... So could i blend em with water and drink em for the same effect?


----------



## YoungytheKing

I was looking to use a Keto diet to kick start my prep and then move on to carb cycling. So finding this thread has been spot on.

I am looking to use your Keto diet PSCarb, on the first page. You mentioned you have used it with people and to great success. I am starting out at 205 pounds. Is it ok to go with the plan outlined at that weight? Then see how I am after a week and tailor it. Whats your thoughts? Great thread and info buddy. Thankyou!!


----------



## 3752

it is a decent starting point but i would normally use this diet with guys in the high teens + BF % levels


----------



## walks

Just read the whole thread, good read and im gonna give it a bash for 6 weeks before moving onto carb cycling for another 6. I have quite high bf% so it should suit me well.

Will have to reduce the protein slightly as i thinks the original diet has too much for me.

Btw paul, i know this was originally 1st posted in 2005 so have you change your view on anything about this diet over the last few years? Either with the diet itself or cardio, fat burners?


----------



## roberts1974

just read the whole thread good read think ill have to give it a go as ive got a good 25% bf now just got to get my hand on some clen then bye bye fatboy.

niceone pscarb its goin to be hard i think but fcuk it if thats what it takes to look good.


----------



## 3752

GSleigh said:


> Random question...
> 
> BUT i couldnt ea 8 whole eggs in 1 go... So could i blend em with water and drink em for the same effect?


you could but i wouldn't....the amount of whole eggs you eat depends on your weight....i normally start guys on 6 have these scrambled and it aint that much



walks said:


> Btw paul, i know this was originally 1st posted in 2005 so have you change your view on anything about this diet over the last few years? Either with the diet itself or cardio, fat burners?


yes mate i normally only use this now as a way to gauge how someones body adapts then switch to carb cycling or timed carbs....plus i believe cardio should be 75% of max not the 65% i put in this thread....


----------



## roberts1974

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


paul how long would u advise someone to run a diet like this or do u keep goin until u reach the desired level of bf also do u have to taper up to 80 mcg of clen


----------



## learner23

Pscarb said:


> it is a decent starting point but i would normally use this diet with guys in the high teens + BF % levels


hi paul, just wondered what the reasoning behind this is as i thought the diet was written for some1 of a bodyfat at 25%, thanks...by the way i was thinking of doin this diet and am around 25% bodyfat, thanks


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Paul,

If a serving of nuts = 50g

Is a serving of natty p.butter the same???


----------



## 3752

yes mate it is


----------



## RedKola

When people are saying they have peanut butter in with their protien drinks...does it mix ok? Are we talking smooth peanut butter? 

Sorry for the thicko question but I've alwas wondered...


----------



## tomass1342

crunchy, and u get some tiny bits, but they taste nice


----------



## Lois_Lane

RedKola said:


> When people are saying they have peanut butter in with their protien drinks...does it mix ok? Are we talking smooth peanut butter?
> 
> Sorry for the thicko question but I've alwas wondered...


If you blend it yes otherwise it wont unless other people have some peanut butter i don't lol


----------



## roberts1974

RedKola said:


> When people are saying they have peanut butter in with their protien drinks...does it mix ok? Are we talking smooth peanut butter?
> 
> Sorry for the thicko question but I've alwas wondered...


 ive been running this diet for 2 weeks now results are great and yes smooth peanut butter.

also the taste is fine it can even improve the taste of some, of the nasty protien shakes


----------



## Gza1

yeah i usually blend my p.butter in with my whey


----------



## Guest

Have not yet read through the entire thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I would suggest, if interested in a ketogenic diet, that people read Lyle McDonald's piece called 'The Ketogenic Diet'. It is amazingly informative, highly recommended.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Just a thought though before i start,

The diet on page one, is this too much protein for a 84k man carrying body fat or will it work for all weights??


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


Are these just normal eggs??


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Guys need some help please,

I have been following this diet of pauls now for 5 days, checked myself this morning with ketostix and according to the readings still not in keto??

just for the record im 46 yrs old approx 5ft 9" and weight this morning 83k(13st) with a pot belly and maybe about 15% body fat,

The goal is to get down to 12st.

This is what i have been eating below

Meal 1:

6 whole eggs

Meal 2:

50g of Bulk Supplements Direct Ultimate Protein Blend comprising of Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Isolate, Milk Protein Concentrate and Milk Protein Isolate.

Only 1g of carb to 30g + 50g maridian p.butter with water.

Meal 3:

8 oz. of aldi frozen but pre-cooked diced chicken with large bowl of green salad I.E cue-cumber and lettuce with 1 Tbsp Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

50g of Bulk Supplements Direct Ultimate Protein Blend comprising of Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Isolate, Milk Protein Concentrate and Milk Protein Isolate.

Only 1g of carb to 30g + 50g maridian p.butter with water.

Meal 5:

8oz. aldi diced chicken with 50g of cashews

Meal 6:

8oz. aldi diced chicken with 50g of cashews

Can somebody please help and tell me where im going wrong

Thankyou

kev.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Yeah thanks bulkaholic,

I was thinking it might be the protein as well so ill lower it and see.

I'm not to bothered at the moment if i lose some muscle size as i'm more interested in getting the fat off first.

Cheers

kev.


----------



## ParaManiac

Grim_Reaper said:


> Yeah thanks bulkaholic,
> 
> I was thinking it might be the protein as well so ill lower it and see.
> 
> I'm not to bothered at the moment if i lose some muscle size as i'm more interested in getting the fat off first.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> kev.


I take it you're aware of the carb content within the nuts?


----------



## Grim_Reaper

bulkaholic I here what you say,

but I have been basing my protein at 2g per pound of 13st fat weight that's well over 270g when in fact it should be based on lean body weight right!!

So say I would look lean at 12st (76k) x 1.5 = 167g per day

Please correct me if I'm wrong, still learning!!

Thanks

kev.


----------



## 3752

5 days ?? have you weighed yourself?

give it time as Bulkaholic has pointed out the diet works Keto is fine but for me is not the most important thing....


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Paul,

Please don't take it the wrong way mate , i didn't say it doesn't work i said i am not registering on my ketostix and was wondering if my protein intake was to high for my weight as posted above.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

This is what i have dropped it to now

Meal 1:

4 whole eggs

Meal 2:

30g of Bulk Supplements Direct Ultimate Protein Blend comprising of Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Isolate, Milk Protein Concentrate and Milk Protein Isolate.

Only 1g of carb to 30g + 25g maridian p.butter with water.

Meal 3:

100g of aldi frozen but pre-cooked diced chicken with large bowl of green salad I.E cue-cumber and lettuce with 1 Tbsp Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

30g of Bulk Supplements Direct Ultimate Protein Blend comprising of Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Isolate, Milk Protein Concentrate and Milk Protein Isolate.

Only 1g of carb to 30g + 25g maridian p.butter with water.

Meal 5:

100g aldi diced chicken with 28g of cashews

Meal 6:

100g. aldi diced chicken with 28g of cashews

What do you think


----------



## hackskii

Grim_Reaper said:


> Paul,
> 
> Please don't take it the wrong way mate , i didn't say it doesn't work i said i am not registering on my ketostix and was wondering if my protein intake was to high for my weight as posted above.


Not getting into ketosis can be one of a few things.

Too much protein.

Too low fats.

Too high carbs.

Me personally, I would drop all protein shakes and rely more on whole foods like fatty ground beef, fish oils, olive oil, etc.

The purpose is simple, prioritizing fats for fuel, too much protein will cause you to want to burn protein for fuel, that is not very efficient, and does not target priority to burn fats for fuel.

Once you are deep into ketosis, you will lose alot of weight very fast.

You can have stuff like some berries, cellery and light carb sources to get some minerals and vitamins, but it must be less than a total sum of 30grams a day of carbs.

Macadamia nuts are the lowest in carbs and highest in fats.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Thanks scott,

Are peanuts a good choice as macadamia ar expensive

is there a list anywhere of what salad stuff nuts etc. i can eat??


----------



## hackskii

Cashews would have more fat and less carbs than peanuts.

But, if it is protein keeping you out of ketosis, then it may be the peanuts.

Remember they are about half fat, the other half is protein and carbs (approx).


----------



## Grim_Reaper

No no mate I'm not using peanuts at the moment but wondered if they would be a better option that's all.

Cheers

kev


----------



## Graham Mc

Meal 1:

4 whole eggs

Meal 2:

Two scoops of Whey Protein with water. teaspoon of virgin olive oil

Meal 3:

5 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad

Meal 4:

Two scoops of Whey Protein with water. teaspoon of virgin olive oil

Meal 5:

5 oz. lean meat with with large bowl of green salad

Meal 6:

5 oz. lean meat with with large bowl of green salad

180lbs 5ft 9, ive edited the above diet for my weight ratio does it seem ok ?

Anyone know any food fatburner brands ?


----------



## Nutz01

Been on keto for a week, and just come across this thread.

Lots of usefull information, and i will be making big changes based on this thread.

Thanks guys for all the information.

:thumb:


----------



## gymjim

how should i re introduce carbs, after 5 weeks of keto, i was 14. 11 and now im 14.2, now i was to clean bulk, any suggestions?


----------



## Lois_Lane

Ruggersplayer said:


> how should i re introduce carbs, after 5 weeks of keto, i was 14. 11 and now im 14.2, now i was to clean bulk, any suggestions?


Well you could either add in a small amount with each/most meals such as 30 grams or you could just have them in the AM and then pwo but in larger amounts.

Start low 100-200 carbs per day depending on how big you are and then do this for a week and by the end judge how you are looking chances are you will be able to up it a bit again by the end of the week.

Adding a few carbs in each day after a hard diet will not make you fat. Eating massive amounts of junk food like many including my self do after a diet will make you gain fat.....


----------



## gymjim

Thanks mate for that i was just dreading puttin the weight back on ive lost if i just went and started eating loads of carb's im not the biggest fan of carbs ever and usually have the minimal amount i need through the day.


----------



## huwgarms

great read, thanks for the info and the clearing up of low carb/cycling no carb keto issue

pscarb or hackskii, my wife is maybe gonna give the meal plan on page one a whirl you did say if was aimed originally at a female ? shes my training partner lifting heavy and about to up cardio in prep for our hols in sept, shes currently weighing 64kg and wants to shed probably 5kg of that in fat, shes asking would she be able to swap some of the lean meat meals for fatty fish as shes not alble to process that amount of meat comfortably if you get my drift,

thanks for any reply

matt


----------



## Nutz01

huwgarms said:


> great read, thanks for the info and the clearing up of low carb/cycling no carb keto issue
> 
> pscarb or hackskii, my wife is maybe gonna give the meal plan on page one a whirl you did say if was aimed originally at a female ? shes my training partner lifting heavy and about to up cardio in prep for our hols in sept, shes currently weighing 64kg and wants to shed probably 5kg of that in fat, shes asking would she be able to swap some of the lean meat meals for fatty fish as shes not alble to process that amount of meat comfortably if you get my drift,
> 
> thanks for any reply
> 
> matt


I have'nt seen the diet but fatty fish is good, as long as the protien and fat is the same can't see it being a problem.


----------



## huwgarms

thanks for the input nutz01 wondering how this will effect the specific diet posted though


----------



## Nutz01

It should not, as long as you have the same amounts of fat and protein.

Just as an example.

Meal 3:

8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

if you replaced the lean meat with oily fish, you just need to alter the amount of flax/Olive oil.


----------



## huwgarms

nice one thanks it did make sense the first time  missus will be pleased


----------



## Robbyg

Hi what the macros for this ? Protein Fats and carbs ?

Meal 1:

8 whole eggs

Meal 2:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

Meal 4:

Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts

Meal 6:

8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.


----------



## hackskii

huwgarms said:


> great read, thanks for the info and the clearing up of low carb/cycling no carb keto issue
> 
> pscarb or hackskii, my wife is maybe gonna give the meal plan on page one a whirl you did say if was aimed originally at a female ? shes my training partner lifting heavy and about to up cardio in prep for our hols in sept, shes currently weighing 64kg and wants to shed probably 5kg of that in fat, shes asking would she be able to swap some of the lean meat meals for fatty fish as shes not alble to process that amount of meat comfortably if you get my drift,
> 
> thanks for any reply
> 
> matt





Nutz01 said:


> I have'nt seen the diet but fatty fish is good, as long as the protien and fat is the same can't see it being a problem.





Nutz01 said:


> I should not, as long as you have the same amounts of fat and protein.
> 
> Just as an example.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> if you replaced the lean meat with oily fish, you just need to alter the amount of flax/Olive oil.


Um, honestly too much protein will kick you out of ketosis, just keep the carbs under 35 grams for a keto diet, all the protein and fats you want, remember it is the fat you need for fuel, and this helps the body to switch from burning sugars to fats, glycogen to ketones.


----------



## Nutz01

Originally Posted by *Nutz01* 

I have'nt seen the diet but fatty fish is good, as long as the protien and fat is the same can't see it being a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nutz01* 

I should not, as long as you have the same amounts of fat and protein.

Just as an example.

Meal 3:

8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar

if you replaced the lean meat with oily fish, you just need to alter the amount of flax/Olive oil.

......................................................................................................



hackskii said:


> Um, honestly too much protein will kick you out of ketosis, just keep the carbs under 35 grams for a keto diet, all the protein and fats you want, remember it is the fat you need for fuel, and this helps the body to switch from burning sugars to fats, glycogen to ketones.


Maybe i could have been clearer in saying as long as the amount of protein and fat consumed has been calculated for your lean bodyweight, then it should not matter if the protein comes from meat or fish, however its important to get a varied source of good quality proteins and fats.


----------



## hackskii

But that is the beauty of a keto diet, and why they work so well.

They work well because the guidelines during the diet are so loose.

No need to worry about protein consumption when one macro is out of the equation.

Let's do the math here.

No carbs get replaced with fats and protein.

Fats offer great energy.

Extra protein offers support for muscle.

Less insulin offers better benefits for fat loss, as this storage hormone is kept in check.


----------



## Nutz01

hackskii said:


> But that is the beauty of a keto diet, and why they work so well.
> 
> They work well because the guidelines during the diet are so loose.
> 
> No need to worry about protein consumption when one macro is out of the equation.
> 
> Let's do the math here.
> 
> No carbs get replaced with fats and protein.
> 
> Fats offer great energy.
> 
> Extra protein offers support for muscle.
> 
> Less insulin offers better benefits for fat loss, as this storage hormone is kept in check.


I'm not to clear about the amount of protein consumed, I though that to much as mentioned in an earlier post will knock you out of ketosis, also to much and the excess will be stored as fat ?


----------



## Robbyg

Can you use cottage cheese and quark or is the carbs too high ?


----------



## Nutz01

cottage cheese is a no no.


----------



## hackskii

Nothing is a no no providing you dont eat more than 35 grams of carbs.

So, yah 4 oz of cottage cheese is like 5 grams of fat, 4 grams of carbs, 14 grams protein.

But if you look at it this way, you have more protein than the carbs and fat combined, not that this is a problem but you really need to prioritize more fat than protein and way more than carbs.

If you are too high in protein, some conversion to glucose will happen, so when you take in carbs you are not factoring in the conversion of protein to carbs.

Like I know a guy that ate too many peanuts, it tossed him out of ketosis, I suggested him to swap to at the very least cashews or better yet macadamia nuts, as they are the highest in fat, and lowest on carbs, 1 gram of fat per nut.

All people are diffrent, some get into ketosis fast, some dont, some cant have carbs or it kicks them out of ketosis, some can have carbs.

If you keep the protein moderate, carbs low or no, and use fat, you should get into ketosis.

Eggs for example have about 5 grams of fat and 6 grams of protein, and no carbs, this is one reason why eggs are so popular in keto diets.

If you are having problems getting into ketosis then lower the carbs, up the fats, and if you still cant get into ketosis, the drop the protein some.

I had great results eating stuff like bacon and cheese, sounds psycho but hell, worked for me......lol

Pork skins were a snack too....lol


----------



## Nutz01

I found that peanuts kicked me out of ketosis.


----------



## hackskii

Nutz01 said:


> I found that peanuts kicked me out of ketosis.


Yes, that happened to my friend too, plus they do have alot of salt, you can opt for the macadamia nuts, they taste great and have the most fat.


----------



## Nutz01

hackskii said:


> Yes, that happened to my friend too, plus they do have alot of salt, you can opt for the macadamia nuts, they taste great and have the most fat.


I'm not on keto at the moment, but thinking about a diet as my BF is a little high :whistling: well actualy quite a lot high, i'm doing as much cardio as i can, but finding it difficult as I have a bit of a quad injury, which is holding me back a bit.

My goals are a little up in the air at the moment, i've made fair gains from previous cycles but need to get BF down while minimising muscle loss, not sure about the best way to achive this. I want to carry on lifting, but last time I ran a keto, I found I had no energy in the gym. bigjoe who seems to be an expert on keto, suggested a CKD but it seemed to be a little difficult to follow.


----------



## hackskii

I hear you bro.

If you rehab your injury, and regain range of motion, then gain strength within range of motion you have it half licked.

Get range.

Get strength.

Then work on A program that helps you.

Consider hydro therapy.

Or some low impact, yet something that strengthens your injury yet not inflame said injury.


----------



## Bashy

If im eating to little calories does that mean my body is goign to stary using my muscle for energy instead of my fat?

Im trying my best to formulate some sort of frankenstein keto diet and cant help thinking if done wrong somewhere.

Can any of you guys give me some pointer on my diet? Cheers

Meal 1: 6 egg whites

Meal 2: 65g of canned tuna and onion and sweetcorn

Meal 3: 250 chicken breast and green salad

Meal 4: 65g of canned tuna and onion and sweetcorn

Meal 4: 250 gram chicken breast with stir fried veggies or roasted veggies or green salad


----------



## andy51086

Bashy said:


> If im eating to little calories does that mean my body is goign to stary using my muscle for energy instead of my fat?
> 
> Im trying my best to formulate some sort of frankenstein keto diet and cant help thinking if done wrong somewhere.
> 
> Can any of you guys give me some pointer on my diet? Cheers
> 
> Meal 1: 6 egg whites
> 
> Meal 2: 65g of canned tuna and onion and sweetcorn
> 
> Meal 3: 250 chicken breast and green salad
> 
> Meal 4: 65g of canned tuna and onion and sweetcorn
> 
> Meal 4: 250 gram chicken breast with stir fried veggies or roasted veggies or green salad


wheres the fat if you are doing a keto diet? :confused1:

perhaps you should make a thread mate, you may get a better response


----------



## Bashy

Not sure what im doing to be honest mate, I had a basic idea on what I thought was a good diet to drop the fat and thats what I came up with. What kinda things should I be adding?


----------



## andy51086

Bashy said:


> Not sure what im doing to be honest mate, I had a basic idea on what I thought was a good diet to drop the fat and thats what I came up with. What kinda things should I be adding?


see here for keto diet info

http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/nutrition/2156-cdk-cyclical.html

have a read of that then post a thread with any questions that you may have :thumbup1:


----------



## Bashy

cheers mate will do !


----------



## Malibu

i would say keto, i have been on it for like 2 and a half weeks and lost 16lbs, and strenth has gone up


----------



## Bashy

Thats loads in two weeks? Are yo struggling with the lack of carbs?

I followed the above diet for 3 weeks so far and the first week and a bit i seriously struggled


----------



## Nutz01

hackskii said:


> I hear you bro.
> 
> If you rehab your injury, and regain range of motion, then gain strength within range of motion you have it half licked.
> 
> Get range.
> 
> Get strength.
> 
> Then work on A program that helps you.
> 
> Consider hydro therapy.
> 
> Or some low impact, yet something that strengthens your injury yet not inflame said injury.


I think i'm well on the road to recovery.

I followed my weight session with 40 minutes of cardio, which was 15 minutes inclined walk on treadmill 65% HR followed by 5 minutes easy run, followed by 20 minutes cross training again at 65% HR.

Felt it a little on my quad, but no pain. will up the cardio to 1 hour, 5 days a week, but I still need to sort out a diet.

CKD ?

Watch my carbs more carefully ?

Dont know to be honest ?

My main issue is get rid of the fat while minimising muscle loss.


----------



## hackskii

Keto diets are fine, but at some point you need carbs in there to curb cortisol (elivates during a keto diet), and also thyroid tends to slow down.

Add some carbs post workouts after training days during the week if you stall, if you are losing consistantly then its all good.


----------



## Sharp161

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


Great think i will try this as suggested for a few weeks, couple of questions though. Sorry if they have been covered i did try and read through...

1. Would it make a difference if i switched meals 2 and 6 around as i train before meal 6, so id be having my shake after training?

2. Would it hurt to add a bit of cheese to the eggs in meal one?

3. By lean meat you mean a mix of chicken and steak or fish?

Great thread btw have learned alot, thanks.

EDIT: I put together a diet based on this and got the macros...

Protien: 247

Fat: 138

Carbs: 35

Cals: 2326

Im 84kg and 16%bf does this seem about right? Or too much protien?


----------



## matt1989

I used this thread as my source of info and stuck to this diet and lost a lot of fat quickly, and have noticed no muscle loss just better definition...

cheers guys!


----------



## Vin230

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


Thinking of starting this plan. What kind of training program/schedule are people using with this?

Also what should my macros look like? Im 22 92kg 5ft9. Thanks


----------



## paulburrows246

this thread died now?


----------



## Tatlock

Pscarb said:


> Big has a point there...
> 
> i would again advocate a keto style diet i just put a freind on a diet just like this and he has lost 8lbs in the first week which the majority will be water but saying that yours will to.
> 
> it is pretty extreme and not for the faint hearted here it is..
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> 8 whole eggs
> 
> Meal 2:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 3:
> 
> 8 oz. of lean meat with large bowl of green salad with 1 Tbsp flax/Olive oil and vinegar
> 
> Meal 4:
> 
> Two scoops of Extreme Protein with 1 serving of natural peanut butter with water.
> 
> Meal 5:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts
> 
> Meal 6:
> 
> 8 oz. lean meat with 1 serving of cashews/peanuts.
> 
> pick one day a week normally a sat for one Hour eat 300 g of carbs then back on the diet.
> 
> do 1 session of cardio in the morning before breakfast of 40min walking is best as any thing over 65% of max and you will burn carbs instead of fat.
> 
> take a fatburner 3x daily
> 
> take Clen at 80mcg per day 2 weeks on 2 weeks off...
> 
> this should drop a fair amount of weight this is extreme but you did say you wanted to do what it takes....fast..


This couldn't be used to cut, or get the abs on show a bit better could it?

Or will you lose to much muscle


----------



## 3752

guys the diet was an example of a keto type diet that i had used for some of the people i help, if you want to use it go ahead but i cannot give individual plans for everyone....


----------



## will-uk

Cant believe i have only just found this thread, been looking for something as good as this for a while now, spot on!!


----------



## Tassotti

Can't believe this thread was started in 2005! Gotta be the longest lasting thread in history.

Pscarb, regarding the 300g carb meal, a Pizza Hut large meat feast stuffed crust pizza has 312g carbs. (perfect) It is also 3300 cals, 196g Protein and 144g fat. Can I really eat one of these per week? If so, I'm in!!


----------



## lee_

I've only just found this thread and spent an hour or so reading it! It was an hour well spent!


----------



## goombah23

Great thead... Will def. be starting a similar diet. Hackskii and Pscarb, thanks for making it easy to understand.


----------



## 3752

Tassotti said:


> Can't believe this thread was started in 2005! Gotta be the longest lasting thread in history.
> 
> Pscarb, regarding the 300g carb meal, a Pizza Hut large meat feast stuffed crust pizza has 312g carbs. (perfect) It is also 3300 cals, 196g Protein and 144g fat. Can I really eat one of these per week? If so, I'm in!!


yes mate you can....


----------



## Iluv2b_Free

Pscarb I notice you say to take AAS in the first page here you suggest using clen...AAS shouldn't be used by new people should it? Little experience and probably no experience with AAS and even more probable no research on the subject?


----------



## Guest

pscarb,how much is one serving of cashew nuts? a handfull,50grammes.

thanks


----------



## Sharpiedj

Seb - Yes it is

Just started this diet myself hoping to see some good progress


----------



## fairz

Pscarb,

Would you gian the water water back after coming off this sort of diet? Would carb cycling be a better way of getting rid of the fat for good? I'm refering to the diet you put up in your first few posts. Does keto keep weight off as well?

Also does clen have any bad sides?

Would it be wise if i had a ECG and bloods before i take anythnig like that?


----------



## 3752

fairz said:


> Pscarb,
> 
> Would you gian the water water back after coming off this sort of diet? Would carb cycling be a better way of getting rid of the fat for good? I'm refering to the diet you put up in your first few posts. Does keto keep weight off as well?


You never get rid of fat cells you just deplete them and just like any type of diet like keto or carb cycling once you finish the diet and return to eating normally you will gain weight back unless you have made steps to avoid this, so if you use keto then go back to eating carbs yes you will gain water.



fairz said:


> Also does clen have any bad sides?


yes use the search function or google



fairz said:


> Would it be wise if i had a ECG and bloods before i take anythnig like that?


it is always wise to have these done if you can


----------



## fairz

So the best way to get fat off is just by eating clean and being in a calorie deficit?

I've heard a few sytoms with clen but i just wanted to know off somebody that has actually took it.

I need to do some more cardio in my life to be fair, HIIT and all that.

Do you literally eat clean all the time with an occasional cheat meal? Going bodypower expo bro?


----------



## 3752

fairz said:


> So the best way to get fat off is just by eating clean and being in a calorie deficit?
> 
> I've heard a few sytoms with clen but i just wanted to know off somebody that has actually took it.
> 
> I need to do some more cardio in my life to be fair, HIIT and all that.
> 
> Do you literally eat clean all the time with an occasional cheat meal? Going bodypower expo bro?


the best way to get weight off is with a calorie controlled diet and cardio, drugs like Clen speed the process up but as you have said they do come with sides.....many have taken Clen the search function will give you posts from members about there experiances.

yes i do eat clean even in the off season year round and i relax and eat what i want on a sunday, not going to Bodypower this year as it is only a few weeks from the Britiah....


----------



## fairz

I need to sort my diet out big time!!! i need a nutritionist. How do you workout your calorie needs for a cut? I did my BMR minus 20% which came out at 2240 calories, i'm 24 6"2 roughly 16% bf office job throughout the day workout 3 or 4 times a week


----------



## bighead1985

Great thread


----------



## ifbb2004

Hi PSCarb.

I'm currently 5 weeks out from comp.

been doing keto with a day refeed of clean carbs such as sweet potato, oats and a little fruit (training day) do you think for fat loss it would be better to just do 1 meal (or 1hr) of carbs instead of a whole day?

thanks


----------



## mluke

Hey guys don't know if this has been mentioned but what about lyle Mcdonalds protein sparimg modified fast? He says you can lose 4-8 lbs FAT in 2 weeks


----------



## addseo1115

Thanks for all recommends. I thought all of advice given would be work on me too.

I would like to be healthy always. No pain No gain, right? Cheer up!


----------

