# KETO -- Diary



## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Ok ladies and Gents this is going to be the month where i get to see my abs and get rid of my flabby ****!

*
**I am doing this diary for 3 reasons:*

A. To help motivate me to stick stringantly to the diet

B. To provide a log for other people to use or to be motivated by.

C. To receive advice about things i maybe doing wrong.

*Stats*

*
*

*
*Sex -- Male (Well hopefully)

Height -- 5ft 9"

Current weight -- 12st

Measurments:

Hips/Bum -- 37"

Waist -- 34"

Chest -- 38"

Neck -- 15"

Bicep -- R-14 1/4" L-14"

Legs -- R-23 1/2" L- 22 1/2"

*Pics*

Excuse the flabby bum!...but i think it will be a vital part of the fat loss.










*Diet*

Shooting for about 2000 cals a day.

made up mostly of fats and protein and carbs from non root vegetables:

If anyone could post up some meal ideas then that would be great!

*Drugs*

ECA Stack

Drugs


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

this will be well worth reading.

a warts and all account with before and after pics.

you having once last blowout?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bump to keep e-mail notifications.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

trickymicky69 said:


> this will be well worth reading.
> 
> a warts and all account with before and after pics.
> 
> you having once last blowout?


Sort of had a blow out this weekend...i may munch some choc tonight thou!


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

woody, have you ever looked into doing a 21 day HCG diet? it works well and truly along the lines of this but you'll 100% keep any lean tissue you have now, well worth a look even if it isn't for you.

Ive now seen the HCG diet work for around 5 ppl who have documented and kept me up to date on their progress, very impressive results.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

Five-O said:


> woody, have you ever looked into doing a 21 day HCG diet? it works well and truly along the lines of this but you'll 100% keep any lean tissue you have now, well worth a look even if it isn't for you.
> 
> Ive now seen the HCG diet work for around 5 ppl who have documented and kept me up to date on their progress, very impressive results.


very interested to hear how this works?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

trickymicky69 said:


> very interested to hear how this works?


I know bulldozer followed the diet and lost a lot of weight and near to no muscle during his phase, He doesn't seem to post as much now.

The long and tall of it involves eating as little as 900-1000 cals per day for 3 weeks, and does not allow training for those 3 weeks either, it also involves an ED intramuscular shot of HCG, which is extremly effective at sustaining muscle tissue whilst the body is under severe calorific deficit.

Its hard to really sell to ppl because they are so sceptical and worried about loss of gains, but I wouldn't really endorse it (if you like) unless id seen it work, a good few times.

If anyones still interested I could dig up some stuff.

Sorry for the hi-jack woody.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

No probs...i looked into something like this before...but the evidence was a bit light at the time. Will defiantly look into it again thou. Strange it does not endorse weight training along with the diet as i thought that would help keep muscle.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 1*

Breakfast:

2 eggs fried (Olive oil)

2 bacon

1 sausage

mushrooms

Mid morning snack:

30g Brazil nuts

Lunch:

Steak

Mayo

Red peppers

Post workout shake

Dinner:

2 chicken breast fried in olive oil along with a few slices of mature cheese and fried spinach.

Training went reasonably well...i think the ECA stack had a lot to do with that as i feel a bit jittery today.

Next couple of days i am anticipating low energy levels...we will see!


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Will be interested to read this - the first three days were the worst for me - a bit tired and sluggish and terrible sugar cravings!!!

Some of my favourite meals (if you need some motivation)

Omelette with onions, mushrooms and sliced chorizo or frankfurter, topped with cheese.

Rib eye steak with huge salad and garlic and pepper sauce (butter, cream, garlic, cracked black pepper and lemon juice)

Red Thai curry (carbs in the coconut milk butI ate it post workout) - chicken, onions, mushrooms, peppers, red curry paste, coconut milk, lime juice.

Olives and feta are a good snack too :tongue:

Proper good quality dark chocolate is prety low in carbs - you may be able to get away with the odd square of it 

Damn I want a rib-eye now!!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Dont forget the cheese woody.............


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Couldn't forget the cheese mate...I love cheese!


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Beklet said:


> Will be interested to read this - the first three days were the worst for me - a bit tired and sluggish and terrible sugar cravings!!!
> 
> Some of my favourite meals (if you need some motivation)
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting them up...will give a few of them a wirl...I think variety is key to me sticking to this diet. :beer:


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 2*

Breakfast:

3 eggs

2 bacon

cheese

Snack

Brazil nuts

Lunch:

2 Peperamis (Forgot lunch!)

Snack:

Brazil nuts

Dinner:

Chicken

Bacon

Cheese

Cucumber

I felt ok this morning, this afternoon thou i felt sluggish.

I will buy some Keto Sticks tmoz


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ouch, I think you need to eat more bro.

How about an avacado as a snack?

A pinch of salt and garlic is nice with that.......

Don't forget some fatty meats.....lol................Seasoned to taste......lol

Keto diets are supposed to be fun, that looks a bit low for you bro...............


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

WTF kind of a diet is this?!?!?

No offense mate but bacon and butter are you having a laugh?!

Try this.

meal 1:6 whole omega eggs

meal 2: 225 grams chicken, brocoli, 10 grams fish oil

meal 3: same as meal 2

meal 4: 225 grams salmon, asparagus

meal 5: large steak with a large green salad NOT ice berg lettuce

[email protected] any time of the day 50 grams whey along with a handfull of nuts

Once per week a carb meal containing 200 carbs prior to bed (dont do this until you have been on the diet for two weeks).

I mean really mate i threw up a little reading this thread and to who ever adviced butter:rolleyes: is my only response.

A keto diet relies on ketones as fuel not glucose what you are doing is the pig ignorant version of a atkins diet WHICH HE DID NOT ACTUALLY OUT LINE LIKE MOST IDIOTS THINK there is a comprehensive book that he wrote that out lines every thing.

Your diet will lead to a loss of muscle tissue a lot of strenght will be lost you will feel sluggish not to mention what all that saturated fat will do to you.

Also no offense my man but one month of any diet bar perhaps a 21 day psycho hcg diet(which does work i know the guys jimmy means) will have you having a 6 pack.

Now a nice 16 week diet using my diet (actually a slighty modified Dave Palumbo ketogenic diet) will have you fat free and looking and feeling great.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bacon and butter is fine on a keto diet, fats have to come from all sources, not just fish, saturated fats are necessary.

The original Atkins diet for fast weight loss is this.

30 grams of carbs or less.

As much fat and protein as you want.

Induction phase.

No problems at all.

Ketosis is ketosis.

Now if you want to argue the nutritional value of it then fine.

Is it effective?

Absolutly for those that have a hard time losing fat.

Is it safer?

Probably overall no, but for short time absolutly..

I have used the Atkins diet many times, I do think it has its place.

It is not used for contest prepping or anything like that.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

I am perfectly aware that any fats are fine on the keto diet, however, i was under the impression that people cared about the health of their body.

I am not talking about contest dieting i am talking about having a diet to rid the body of its fat stores while trying to keep the body as healthy as possible.

At the end of the day every one to their own but there is a much healthier body friendly way to do that diet than what he has out lined.

FYI to the poster this is not an attack on you so dont take offense this board is all about voicing opinions and thats what i have done. Whatever you do good luck with your diet and achieving your goals:thumbup1:


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

i am going to implement more fish into my diet mate...that is part of the plan...i have actually got fresh mackerel tonight for dinner and steak and salad for lunch.

Yesterdays diet was crud as i had a busy day!

As far as i am aware the concerns of dietary cholesterol affecting bodys cholesterol is vastly over exaggerated...it is actually much more down to genetics than anything else.

I am getting good fats in also in the form of olive oil and Omega 3 supplementation.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Ouch, I think you need to eat more bro.
> 
> How about an avacado as a snack?
> 
> ...


Ok mate i will add more food...had a pretty hectic day yesterday...I'm finding my appetite is going very quickly!

Is sugar free jelly ok...i have heard conflicting reports that Sweetners actually spike you insulin?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

And where did i mention butter??


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## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

Con said:


> Now a nice 16 week diet using my diet (actually a slighty modified Dave Palumbo ketogenic diet) will have you fat free and looking and feeling great.


sorry woody to jack your thread... con is this on your contest thread??

just interested in seeing it mate! could you post it up?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 3*

Breakfast:

2 Eggs

1 Sausage

3 Bacon

Mushrooms

All fried in Olive oil

Snack:

Brazil nuts

Lunch:

Steak red peppers with Tabasco sauce

Dollop of mayo

PW shake

Dinner:

Fresh Mackeral

Cheese

Salad

Evening:

100% Quarter pounder with Mustard

Today i am feeling really shlt! energy low. I hope this does not keep up because i am really struggling.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Actually the nice thing about the Atkins type keto diet is the fact that lipid profiles actually look better while on a keto diet.

Yep, that is right, LDL cholesterol goes down, triglycerices go down, insulin sensitivity goes up, lipid profile overall looks better.

With that said, adding in anything to the diet wont make it any healthier.

There are some issues with a keto diet, but for the length of time he will be on, they work very well and offer no health problems.

Keto diets in the beginning work better than most diets, offer better cholesterol profiles too, it is the long term that they dont work any better on and the lipid profile benefits are lost.

So, you can eat all the fat and protein you want, regardless if it is butter, cheese, bacon grease, what ever, they will still work and no health problems will happen.

When I was on a keto diet I used to buy the fattest meats and dip the meat in the fat once cooked.

Remember fat once it gets used for fuel will come from everwhere in the body, the body will scavenger fat from any place it wants to supply the body with fuel, this is probably the reason why lipid profiles are improved.

Seriously it is nothing to worry about.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Interesting thread.

I have some handles that I could do with losing.

At the moment I have added in 2 miles/half an hour of fast walking post workout, 3-4 times a week, and have dropped the slice of bread, albeit granary, I would have with meals.

I don't think I would go this far as muscle growth is more important to me than losing fat, but each to their own.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nothing wrong with butter,


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Just woke up after falling asleep after work... Had to miss gym tonight as my body is all over the place...i think i will lower ECA stack as i am feeling really jittery but also flat at the same time.

Anyone know if sugar free jelly is ok?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sugar free jelly is fine, so is a piece of cheese....lol


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

That is good news as i got the misses to make a shed load of it! lol

I felt a bit better and have just been training...shlty workout to be honest but i got what i needed to do done.

Fell like puking now a bit.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

shorty said:


> sorry woody to jack your thread... con is this on your contest thread??
> 
> just interested in seeing it mate! could you post it up?


I dont have the exact info mate but www.musculardevelopment.com under the Dave Palumbo ask Q thread in the pros section talks non stop about it.

Basically 1.5 grams protein per lb of body weight, .5 grams of fat per lb of body weight with one recarb meal prior to bed once every week after the initial two weeks have passed. Fiberous carbs are allowed such as brocoli and asparagus.

@nytol, i know what you mean about mate with butter not being bad ext i just got a pretty bad impression of the guys diet from his first few posts.

He makes no mention of any fiber ext thus far from a healthy diet IMO.

Sugar free things are fine but take the calories into consideration i mean its usually only one carb per packet so no big deal UNLESS your consuming enourmous quantities so just stay in moderation. Plus you want your stomach to shrink so reducing quantities going in is a good idea.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Thanks for advice mate.


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

cwoody123 said:


> And where did i mention butter??


Ah that was probably me :laugh:

Coconut oil is pretty good too.....and full of good saturated fats (not that I think saturated fats are particularly bad anyway - the fat in beef is only 40% saturated, or thereabouts)

I forgot to buy olives - I'm not happy!

Dunno how much salad you're eating but you could probably stand to eat more veg, otherwise you'll get blocked up...and that's not nice


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The induction phase of the diet allows one to eat as much protein and fat as desired, the only criteria is that one eats 30 grams of carbs or less.

This allows one to get into ketosis where massive fat burning takes place.

The induction phase is not ment to be on long term, the effects long term do have its own set of problems.

But short term, as much as one pound a day can be lost.

This will stall in as little as 6 weeks.

Once the induction phase is done, carbohydrates are added into the diet very slowly, mostly in the vegetable form of as above fiberous carbs, then after a while apples and other fruits can be added like strawberries.

It works very well for what it is intended to do.

Now the downside.

Extended induction phase can cause constipation, bad odors (mouth and body), hypothyroid, high cortisol, and some malnutrition.

On the induction phase it is totally necessary to take fish oils, and a good multi-vitamin mineral supplement.

It is not ment for long term.

Many people use this diet in the States to get ready for a wedding, graduation, special events that are weeks away, or even a couple of months.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Thanks all!

I guess time will tell how effective this is. I swear even thou it has only been 3 days i look leaner...but that is probably Placebo thinking


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Check this out, it is a fun thing to watch:






You can live without carbohydrates but you can not live without fats.


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## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

Con said:


> I dont have the exact info mate but www.musculardevelopment.com under the Dave Palumbo ask Q thread in the pros section talks non stop about it.
> 
> Basically 1.5 grams protein per lb of body weight, .5 grams of fat per lb of body weight with one recarb meal prior to bed once every week after the initial two weeks have passed. Fiberous carbs are allowed such as brocoli and asparagus..


thanks mate... i'll try to get through all 977 pages of that thread...lol :scared:


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

hackskii said:


> Check this out, it is a fun thing to watch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there any more of this? It's definitely a subject that interests me. I read 'The Diet Delusion' not long ago, and that certainly opened my eyes!!! (It's called 'Good Calories, Bad Calories' in the US...)

/hijack


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 4*

Ok i looks like the feeling crap was in part due to the fact i have a dioreah sickness bug thing which manifested itself this morning!

Any how i feel bit better now...I dont feel sluggish and my mind feels clear.

Breakfast:

2 eggs

2 bacon

1 sausage

Mushrooms

Lunch:

1 baby bell

50g full fat cream cheese

Salami

Avacado

3 cold chicken legs

Pork scratchings


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Beklet said:


> Ah that was probably me :laugh:
> 
> Coconut oil is pretty good too.....and full of good saturated fats (not that I think saturated fats are particularly bad anyway - the fat in beef is only 40% saturated, or thereabouts)


Coconut oil is an exceptional fat :thumbup1:


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

www.mercola.com has lots of good information on Coconut oil, and lots of other things too, well worth subscribing to his free news letter, some very interesting stuff at times.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Strange problem!!

For the first time since i have been treated 3 years ago, i couldn't get it up!

Now i don't know what the **** is going on!

few possibilities:

Stress (i have been under quite a lot of stress over the last few days with diet and work, however i have been under pressure before and was still like a bunny!)

Low testosterone (I have a blood test tomorrow morning, so this will either confirm or rule that out)

Prolactin (I very much doubt this has elevated going from my response to dostinex and the fact the tumour has completely gone.

Low carbs

Any one else noticed libido and erection problems doing low carbs?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Never noticed that.

So, you are post cycle right now?

How long ago did you finish your PCT?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

God think it has been about 8 weeks...Another thing it could be due too was the 50mg of Proviron i have been taking for the last 4 days...Sorry should have mentioned that!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Proviron would boost libido


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## beequeth (Mar 8, 2007)

cwoody123 said:


> Strange problem!!
> 
> For the first time since i have been treated 3 years ago, i couldn't get it up!
> 
> ...


I'm in week 11 of my diet, the last 3 weeks have been Monday to Saturday am Keto (less than 20g carbs / day), rest of Saturday as a carb up day, with Sunday as a medium carb (approx 100g).

I have deffinately noticed lack of libido mate, even though I am supported with gear.

On the plus side, my lower obliques and serratus became much more deffined very quickly after changing over to this style of diet after 6 weeks of regular carb cycling.

The other thing I am noticing is dizzy spells during my 2nd cardio session of the day which I assume is blood-sugar related.

Obviously strength is down some what but no more than expected.

Becareful if your using ECA, I'm going to be taking a break from ephedrine as its really giving me anxiety problems at the moment.

Have to agree with Cons post. IMO there are far better protein / fat sources availiable than processed meat. Personally, I stick with lean meat or fish and add the fat in the form of fish oil, nuts and hemp / flax oil.

Also, I can't see any point in frying anything in olive oil. Your just going to degrade the oil.

But , have to say this a very interesting read and will be looking forward to seeing the results


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Hi mate, On holiday i found my libido very high...maybe this was to do with being relaxed and eating lots of food. I'm sure it was probably just a one off as i feel fine today and i am still getting morning erections.

Just to be on the safe side i have had a blood test done this morning...i should get the results by early next week.

i have noticed a little dizziness too...mostly after training. Today i feel better and a bit more awake...however i still seem to get very tired around 2-4pm...hopefully this will go by the end of the weekend.

I bought some Keto sticks yesterday...last night i had trace ammounts of ketones and this morning i had none.

breakfast:

3 scrambled eggs

4 bacon

cream cheese

mushrooms

lunch:

Salad with Cheese, ham, tuna, mayo, cucumber, olive oil

Snack:

Pork cracklings


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## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

woody how long you doing this diet for....??

some of the stuff your eating is making me think wtf are you eating! :lol:

pork scratchings??

i know its a keto diet but still pork scratchings?? :wacko:


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

Iv been doing almost the same now for around 5 weeks. I have noticed a big difference in clothes fitting and in the mirror but have remained at 91kg with bf% gradually lowering, average of 1.2% a week. Wondering if thats coherent? What results are you seeing? Iv just introduced hydroxycut hardcore as a supplement to help the process keep going. Currently an average day consists of 5 fried eggs for breakfast. Large chicken for dinner with half an onion and then home made burgers from lean large pack of mince, onions and green peppers. Then maybe half a large chicken before sleep. Dont want to hijack just want to see what kind of gains you are seeing yourself?


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

shorty said:


> woody how long you doing this diet for....??
> 
> some of the stuff your eating is making me think wtf are you eating! :lol:
> 
> ...


Ha ha I'm eating pork scratchings at the moment - I have a salt craving!

And it's all good - 100g contains 49.5g protein, 46.45g fat and trace carbs, according to my packet :thumb:

That and if I eat another prawn I will probably throw up :cursing:


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

shorty said:


> woody how long you doing this diet for....??
> 
> some of the stuff your eating is making me think wtf are you eating! :lol:
> 
> ...


LOL yes mate,

I would not normally eat something with so much salt but i have had dioreah for 3 days so need to reset my sodium levels in any case, also they are a great sustitute for crisps!


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

adesign said:


> Iv been doing almost the same now for around 5 weeks. I have noticed a big difference in clothes fitting and in the mirror but have remained at 91kg with bf% gradually lowering, average of 1.2% a week. Wondering if thats coherent? What results are you seeing? Iv just introduced hydroxycut hardcore as a supplement to help the process keep going. Currently an average day consists of 5 fried eggs for breakfast. Large chicken for dinner with half an onion and then home made burgers from lean large pack of mince, onions and green peppers. Then maybe half a large chicken before sleep. Dont want to hijack just want to see what kind of gains you are seeing yourself?


i have inly been on this for just under 5 days...but a sneaky peak on th scales say i have lost 5lbs thus far (Glycogen)


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Why did you decide to diet like this and not just the 'conventional way'.. healthy eating and cardio I mean.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I don't like cardio and don't believe it is needed for fat loss (Cardio lovers attack looming) I am trying this ketonic diet to test the theory of the diet...i mean i have low carbed before but only half ****d...I'm giving this a month of my life, i will learn if this something that i want to do again or not.

i think you have to try things for yourself and see what works for you, and i dont just mean the ammount of weight you loose but also other factors such as: mental well being, practabilty etc..


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

How do you feel about the food your eating? I'm sure it tastes good etc but I don't think I could bring myself to eat that sort of thing on a regular basis.

Also is this diet healthy? I can't see how its good for the body to starve it of carbs.


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Liam said:


> How do you feel about the food your eating? I'm sure it tastes good etc but I don't think I could bring myself to eat that sort of thing on a regular basis.
> 
> Also is this diet healthy? I can't see how its good for the body to starve it of carbs.


It's healthy enough in the short term. There are loads of threads on here about different carbs and how they affect you.

From what I've read myself, we need far less carbs than we think!!

There's all sorts of research been done on the subject and they've found humans can stay perfectly healthy on minimal carbs.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

To be honest i miss sugar...but it is becoming less and less as each day passes. The food can get tedius, i defintaly need to look up some more recipes!

you have got to remeber mate that carbs are a fairly new thing when you look at human evolution, i mean in our hunter gather days we ate nothing but meat, fat and fruit (Ocassionly when in season)

There is no evidence that this diet is bad for you as long as you are getting enough vitamins & minerals.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You can actually live on zero carbs, but you have to have protein and fats, you can not live without protein or fat, those you have to have.

Pork rind's, pork scratchings, chicharones, all are one in the same.

This snack is ok on a keto diet as there again is no carbs.

They taste pretty good with cayenne pepper on them...lol

Again guys, this diet is short term, it wont hurt you, it would be better eating this than sugar and heavily processed foods, hydrogenated oils and trans fats, along with many diffent vegetable oils.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 6*

I have defiantly lost weight this first week as i can see it in the mirror!

Measurements and weight will be done tomorrow.

My mood feels good and my mind feels sharp! I also checked my urine last night and i have 'Moderate' ketones which means my body is now burning fat from either dietary fats or from my body.

I have been investigating breakfast ideas and came across a ceral recipe using Flax (Linseed) No doubt this stuff looks good on paper: Lots of dietary fibre, High in good fats, Next to no carbs

*.Looking a little deeper we find some very bad points!*...

It has the potential to lower serum & free Testosterone as it is a Photoestrogen, some say it only increases good oestrogen as opposed to the bad bad Estrodial.

It has been proven to increase SHBG and lower DHT in males...both of which will have negative effects on a males Anabolic/ Androgenic profile.

It's a bit of a shame as this would have given me some good benefits in terms of increasing my fibre intake...however the risk of having a negative effect on my anabolic profile defiantly puts me off!

Breakfast:

Cream/water

Splenda

Crushed up brazil nuts

Touch of vanilla

Baby bell


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

hackskii said:


> You can actually live on zero carbs, but you have to have protein and fats, you can not live without protein or fat, those you have to have.


So, I had read that we can live on zero carbs, and get all our vitamins and minerals through eating fats and proteins, with the exception of Vitamin C, which we would have to supplement (assuming years ago this was why we ate fruit and plants)

Yes or no?

Bloody Holland and Barratt only seem to sell chewable vitamin C with loads of sugar. I had some nice saccharin based ones I used as a 'sweet' when I had a sugar craving


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Ground linseeds aren't that bad for you , and have loads of fibre! Tastes cack though 

There was a recipe for muffins on an Atkins site but it was truly gopping....

Found a 'pasta' recipe somewhere which is effectively soya flour and eggs made into crepes then used for 'canneloni' or chopped into strips like tagliatelle....

Hmmm breakfast. I usually go for omelette with some veg, or scrambled eggs with herbs and bacon. Scrambled eggs are **** easy in a microwave 

Could have a reasonable 'fry up' with bacon, frankfurters (or find some of the posh sausages with very low carbs), eggs, mushrooms.

Actually, thinking about it, you could probably make pancakes with the soya flour and egg and put lemon juice and Splenda on them - yum!!! Might have to try that........


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Why are ground linseeds not hat bad for you? To be honest i will not take the risk. Also i am staying well clear of anything with Soya in it...this stuff is actually proven to increase Estrodial (This must be the reason the Chinese don't have to shave very often lol)

I saw a recipe using spaghetti squash which seemed quite appealing. Thanks for the meal tips in any case ;-)


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

cwoody123 said:


> Why are ground linseeds not hat bad for you? To be honest i will not take the risk. Also i am staying well clear of anything with Soya in it...this stuff is actually proven to increase Estrodial (This must be the reason the Chinese don't have to shave very often lol)
> 
> I saw a recipe using spaghetti squash which seemed quite appealing. Thanks for the meal tips in any case ;-)


Full of omega fatty acids and suchlike.

I'm convinced the whole oestrogens in soya thing is a bit overhyped personally. Saturated fat is supposed to help with testosterone production and I eat loads of it - not noticed a beard yet.... 

The body is a very complex thing - it's not as simple as oestrogen in - girlyman out :laugh: otherwise people would believe things like 'eating fat makes you fat'...oh, wait.......... :lol:

I think Tatyana has posted a few articles about it, but I forget where...


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

No saturated fat is the precursor for testosterone production...there is a big difference...LH will determine how much actual testosterone you produce.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

cwoody123 said:


> I don't like cardio and don't believe it is needed for fat loss (Cardio lovers attack looming) I am trying this ketonic diet to test the theory of the diet...i mean i have low carbed before but only half ****d...I'm giving this a month of my life, i will learn if this something that i want to do again or not.
> 
> i think you have to try things for yourself and see what works for you, and i dont just mean the ammount of weight you loose but also other factors such as: mental well being, practabilty etc..


Are you not too bothered about having a healthy heart etc mate?

I've started doing cardio to try to shift some lard lately. I think having a decent level of cardio fitness can make you feel a lot better in yourself and also speed up the metabolism.

Interested to see how you fare with this though nonetheless.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You can supplement omega 3's and vitamins and minerals while on the induction phase of the diet.

Once the induction phase is over, you can slowly add in carbs, eating greens right now would not be a bad idea.

Broccoli. asperagus, green beans, spinish, etc.

Cant go wrong and this will be fine.

One problem with keto type diets is constipation, green fiberous vegetables will take care of this.

The ketones as varified with the keto strips will suggest that there is fats being used for fuel, I myself never went heavy ketones, but I still lost well.

Some will have more than others.

The soy thing in flax is not that big of deal, although I like fish oils over flax any day.

Other proteins over soy too.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2008)

I am not a FAN of cardio my self but do your self a favour at least do brisk walking for an hour a few times per week.

Thats all i ever do for cardio but i do this year round....once health starts to go downhill its a slippery slope which is not that easy to climb back up....


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I can run 5 miles i felt like it...last month i ran my old 5 mile route and blitz my old time!..you do in fact get a cardio workout from your weights session if you lower rest time


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2008)

cwoody123 said:


> I can run 5 miles i felt like it...last month i ran my old 5 mile route and blitz my old time!..you do in fact get a cardio workout from your weights session if you lower rest time


Short rest periods and high reps is very catabolic on a keto diet you want to keep sets low and weight under 10 reps per set.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 7*

i thought yesterday i would check my blood pressure...results came back at 179/100 which is very high! I put this down to the ECA stack...so as of now i am stopping or lowering my dose to just before training.

I had legs today at the gym...after 25 mins i had to leave the gym as i had no energy at all! My strength has gone down an awful lot in this first week.

My mood this week is very variable...one minute i feel ok...the next i feel like i can't be bothered with anything in life. Today i am feeling like this diet is having a very negative impact on my well being.

Breakfast:

Frankfurter

Egg

Bacon

Mushrooms

Lunch:

Stir fry with chicken

Snack:

Cold chicken leg

Sunflower seeds

Dinner:

2 Chicken leg with rocket salad and olive oil and blue cheese dressing

Snack:

Sugar free jelly

Nuts


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Hmm that's odd I'm feeling much better.

Try eating more veg. And fat - the fat should give you energy.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Too many seeds and nuts can push the carb limit up pretty high.

Try some macadamia nuts, they are the lowest in carbs and highest in fats, they are expensive but very tasty.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I am heavily in ketosis from the test strip this morning. . I am eating a fair bit of veg now so i would not have thought that would be the issue. I will give it another week and see how i go...if by then i do not feel better i will come off the diet.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

cwoody123 said:


> I am heavily in ketosis from the test strip this morning. . I am eating a fair bit of veg now so i would not have thought that would be the issue. I will give it another week and see how i go...if by then i do not feel better i will come off the diet.


Now you are talking, keep an eye on things.

How many days and how many pounds lost?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Been on 7 days now and have lost 5lbs this first week...i look a little leaner...i will measure tomorrow and do some more pics next week.

yesterday i opened the fridge and low and behold my fave chco bar (Double decker) was looking back at me...i seriously wanted to cry!...I had a little pop at my girlfriend for putting it in there.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

See mate like i told you from the start a diet has to be more scheduled than that EXACTLY what i thought would happen has.

Your cals are too low and your eating too much rubbish, your body doesnt like to process **** like rashers it much rather has a clean chicken breast a large romanian salad and a spoon of udos choice oil.

Also a keto diet needs to be run a long time hell i was not liking it at all or the results until the 7-8 week mark.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

What are rashers?

Id say the diet looks a bit light on the calories, but depending on how much he is eating, and he can stick to the diet and constantly lose weight and stay in ketosis I really dont see a problem.

Sure there will be some water weight loss the first week as keto diets are known for this, but all in all things look ok so far.

You didnt eat the choco bar did you?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I think he is referring to bacon mate.

No i did not eat the choccy bar lol...i am far to stubborn to give in!

The water weight is probably why i am looking leaner. next week will be interesting!

Con you did not see results for 7-8 weeks...you must have been doing something wrong to be honest because whatever diet i do i can see results within a week!


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

cwoody123 said:


> yesterday i opened the fridge and low and behold my fave chco bar (Double decker) was looking back at me...i seriously wanted to cry!...I had a little pop at my girlfriend for putting it in there.


Oh that's just bloody rude!!!! How unfair!!! I live on my own so no problem there I just have to sort out my craving for pork scratchings!!!!

Oh, and a rasher is a slice of bacon


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

cwoody123 said:


> Con you did not see results for 7-8 weeks...you must have been doing something wrong to be honest because whatever diet i do i can see results within a week!


 I said i didnt see the results i wanted, first 2 weeks is a big drop of water for me usually about 10lb then i looked flat for another few weeks but as time went by i started to look full again and adjusted and just lost fat at a steady but gradual rate.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I can relate to the flat feeling...it is good to know that dissipates.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bacon on a keto diet is fine.

How do you feel today woody?


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

just on a note of the olive oil, Im sure Ive read in a few places that frying in olive oil loses all of its health benifits. Basically its not much better than any other oil when you are frying with it. Drissel over your food for the benifits.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 8*

Well today i felt much better again...Over the last week i have got into the habit of going to sleep after work...i could sleep right through to the next day if i let myself!

Feeling a little flat and soft which i suppose is down to muscle glycogen being broken down...must say i am craving choc still all cold in the fridge saying EAT ME....Ahhhhhhhhh

Breakfast:

2 eggs

2 Frankfurters

Bacon

Mushrooms

Softcheese

Snack:

Nuts

Lunch

2 Cold chicken legs

salad

Cheese

Mayo

Tobasco sauce

Snack

Jelly

Diner

Steak & cabbbage

Baby bell

Snack

Jerky


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I made low carb cookies!

There actually quite nice


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

ohh share the recipe! Had the biggest cookie urge today, slightly melted ones with ice cream! I bought some ketosis sticks today. almost nil glycogen and the same for ketos. I am averaging around < 10grams of carbs a day and been doing so for the last 6 weeks. Puzzling me to say the least. Could it be that I need more fats in my diet? Atm the only fats Im getting is from egg york and coconut oil.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

> Measurments:
> 
> Hips/Bum -- 37"
> 
> ...


Great stats for a bodybuilder and a conditioned athlete such as you. Aas user and advice giver on the subject has overcome great adversity and previous health problems. Results and pics speak for themselves and well done Woody keep up the great work, I just wish I was half as talented as you and I wish I could have an impressive physique like you possess. I can only dream of reaching such dizzy heights and threads like this one and thr great information given can only spur underlings like my self on to grater things.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Well done woody another great thread and informative read.<o></o>

Carry on the great work.

Bowing in ore of you

Romper Stomper


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

lol very good...did you think of that post all on your own or did your mummy help you?


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

But where's the cookie recipe????


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

adesign said:


> ohh share the recipe! Had the biggest cookie urge today, slightly melted ones with ice cream! I bought some ketosis sticks today. almost nil glycogen and the same for ketos. I am averaging around < 10grams of carbs a day and been doing so for the last 6 weeks. Puzzling me to say the least. Could it be that I need more fats in my diet? Atm the only fats Im getting is from egg york and coconut oil.


Yes mate your going to need more fat than that i would have thought. Post up a typical days diet and Hacks will more than likely have a look?

Cookie recipe

1 1/2 cups of almond flour (Ground almonds)

1 cup of Splenda (Sweetener)

2 Table spoons of butter

1 tea spoon of Vanilla flavouring

2 table spoons of peanut butter or coconut (optional)

Mix in a bowl until gluppy, split into cookie sized portions and place on buttered baking tray. Cook for about for about 10 mins until lightly brown

Then enjoy!


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

cwoody123 said:


> Yes mate your going to need more fat than that i would have thought. Post up a typical days diet and Hacks will more than likely have a look?
> 
> Cookie recipe
> 
> ...


Sounds nice mate, can I ask what are the calories p/c/f if you know at all. Would be nice for a treat for my self I think


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

Has your breath started to smell? My mates smelled rank when in ketosis


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

My breath smells a little funny and my **** too...but my breath has always smelt bad ever since i became a rent boy to pay for my cycles lol

Yeti i would say there is about 200cal a cookie and lots of fat, carbs are at around 2-3 per cookie.

If you are just on a low calories diet then they would not be of much benefit but if you are low carbing then munch away!


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## diaita (Nov 30, 2007)

Cwoody good luck with diet m8,I didn't f4rt at all on a keto no toilet probs either,thought the misses shat in my mouth at night though.JEEEEz my breath was rank.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

lol maybe she did!

*Day9*

It was suppossed to be pi$$ not poo poo that stinks.

Today i felt much better, my mind was sharp by lunch. And having to work all day with a sexy MILF (With great legs!) which kept me perky!

Breakfast:

2 eggs

3 bacon

1 Frankfurter

Mushrooms

Snack:

Pork scratchings

Lunch:

Steak with gravy with a meadly of cabbage and sugar snap peas (very nice)

Snack:

Nuts

Low carb cookie

Dinner

Omelette with: cheese, bacon, mushrooms, sliced cucumber


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

TBH I think that all that pork is pretty poor

Pork is a rubbish source of protein and very high in sodium which could be contrinuting to your blood pressure.

You would get much better results by substituing in Chicken with some Peri Peri sauce and some EPA.

Pork scratchings - Processed garbage. If you really want to make progress drop off these products. I'd also substitute the frankfurter (processed poo) with a beef and chicken herb sausage.

The pork products are limiting your progress massively. If you want a better saturated fat source then add in more beef. A Steak mince beef burger at breakfast will be helpful in this regard.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

How is it inhibiting my progress, which is losing body fat? It is not so much the protein but the fat that i actually want!

My blood pressure is purely down to the ECA. In a week i will test again and i am certain it will be back or close to normal.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Keto diets are not as restrictive as most will suggest, all protein sources are acceptable on a keto diet even pork scratchings and bacon, the bacon is actually used for fat, and not protein.

Now if that is all he ate, that would be one thing, but a keto diet is not restrictive to any fat or any protein.

You can eat as much fat and protein you wish.

the diet works well for many people, the success is at the end when diet is stopped and the carbs are slowly added in.

I would be willing to bet that most people that criticize the keto diet never used it themselves.

I have and It works very well, I ate bacon and eggs along with cheese many days.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Beat me too it lol

Speaking of ECA my workout was just as good today without it and i feel less jittery.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I would wait to add the stimulants at this point and time.

Better to be leaner and add them when the diet stall's.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2008)

> lol very good...did you think of that post all on your own or did your mummy help you?


Oh no woody I can do things like that myself and over the last 20 years do not see my mommy for five odd years at a time, could be classed as independent unlike others who still need to be close to mommy's apron strings to help them over the hurdles life throws at one.

Remind you of someone you know woody?? after reading your impressive stats you should change the name to Mr. massive !!!! more befitting an athlete of your high standing.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Wow you don't see your mum for 5 years at a time!...Is it because she can't stand you either!

I mean we can just about tolerate the trash you write (Which i am suprised you can actually do!) Let alone hearing it from your mouth and having to look at that face!

I'm 27 and earn 40k a year...and i currently live with my wife to be in our own house...just in case you like to know.

I think that is enough trash from you


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

cwoody123 said:


> How is it inhibiting my progress, which is losing body fat? It is not so much the protein but the fat that i actually want!
> 
> My blood pressure is purely down to the ECA. In a week i will test again and i am certain it will be back or close to normal.


How is it inhibiting your progress.

Well for starters the quality of the protein is poor so your body doesnt get a healthy stream of amino acids.

secondly the high sodium does contribute to blood pressure ask any cardio vascular surgeon.

And although you may have deluded yourself that fat is fat you are really using it as an excuse to eat crap.

ALthough what do I know. Sorry for trying to help you I wont do that again.

And have you thought about the fact that too much Saturated and trans fats actually increase SHBG. I can guarantee that pork scratchings and frankfurters contain trans fats.

I dont care what argument you use, trans fats have no regular place in any diet where you try to lose weight except on maybe a cheat day.

Its obvious that you've got some outside help on this diet and you are steadfastly against anyone offering advice which isnt pig yourself silly on fat laden cheat foods.

Its also obvious that you're lazy and arent really into losing wieght because if you were then you'd be doing some cardio which would drop it off you in no time especially with that keto diet.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

hackskii said:


> Keto diets are not as restrictive as most will suggest, all protein sources are acceptable on a keto diet even pork scratchings and bacon, the bacon is actually used for fat, and not protein.
> 
> Now if that is all he ate, that would be one thing, but a keto diet is not restrictive to any fat or any protein.
> 
> ...


Im not criticising the Keto diet but many people use it as an excuse to eat sh*t

Butter is good for you I accept that but Mayo, Porkscratchings, frankfurters. All laden with trans fats and all contributing to CV disease.

If the bacon is used just for fats then why not just eat a slab of lard instead.

Sorry Hackskii but I'm dead against people making excuses for eating sh*t and I would guarantee if the diet was changed to incorporate more quality protein he would get better results.

Have people forgot that one of the elements of the keto diet is that Protein burns off 20% of the calories it releases just from digestion? This is why high protein diets are more effective at burning fat tahn a similar balanced fat/carb calorie intake.

I dont think I'm going to post again on this thread as I can see a proper argument developing.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> Im not criticising the Keto diet but many people use it as an excuse to eat sh*t


Agree and people think they need them when their metabolism simply doesnt suit them nor do their stats require them

Tom, I would like to ask more about this



Tinytom said:


> TBH I think that all that pork is pretty poor
> 
> Pork is a rubbish source of protein and very high in sodium which could be contrinuting to your blood pressure.
> 
> ...


I agree on pork scratchings

Now do you think glutamine is important in a diet, when dieting and when in ketosis? (if applicable)

cheers


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I think that Glutamine is important when you are exercising hard in order to prevent catabolism.

Its not needed here.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> I think that Glutamine is important when you are exercising hard in order to prevent catabolism.


Pork is loaded though?

http://www.jifsan.umd.edu/presentations/acrylamide2002/wg1_aspargine_in_foods.pdf


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Thats a percetage of free aminos.

Pork protein yield is very low compared to chicken.

you'd have to eat a lot of bacon to get 5g of glutamine. Better off just having a few glutamine caps


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> Thats a percetage of free aminos.
> 
> *Pork protein yield is very low compared to chicken.*
> 
> you'd have to eat a lot of bacon to get 5g of glutamine. Better off just having a few glutamine caps


Tom what are you basing that on mate?


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2008)

> I'm 27 and earn 40k a year...and i currently live with my wife to be in our own house...just in case you like to know.


Oh great stuff woody once again in total ore of youy fantastic great acheivements.

your da man !!!!


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

i say well done for posting up your log. it takes some balls to post it up for all and sundry to pick apart and digest every minute detail no matter how small their brains are!

^^^^^^^^


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

Bacon and pork scratchings every day? Personally I think you are letting the science of a keto diet cloud your common sence, bacon every mornin, frankfurters, pork scratchings etc. I know your goal is to lose fat but if you could lose fat from getting a knife and cutting bits off, yes you'd lose fat but its not good for your overall health really is it. Extreme example but you know what I mean.

Anyway, seems like you are being quite strict and doing well. I did keto for a month, was good but didnt see it as a long term diet. Did lose noticable BF though and felt really good when on it.

Any reason you aren't including coconut milk in your diet ? was on of my fav ingrediants when in keto.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Lost Soul said:


> Tom what are you basing that on mate?


Bacon is 12-13g of Protein per 100

Chicken is 23g

TBH Im sure you can find an article saying how pork is the greatest meat ever but there is more anecdotal and documented evidence of Chicken and Steak being a better meat nutrition wise.

If you had Pure Clean pork then you get a yield of 20g per 100 but its still not as good as the others.

Anyway what we are talking about here is bacon which is no way the same as a cut of belly pork.

Theres a place for every meat in a diet in its purer form but can you really argue that a beef burger is the same as a steak or chicken nuggets are the same as a chicken breast?


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

just as a sideline Tom, would you rate turkey better than chicken?


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

I get you tom...you are saying processed bacon rather than pork?


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

LS - exactly. Meat in its purist form is always the best but not many will ever buy real cuts of pork as this is very expensive. Same as Fillet Steak is hardly ever the staple diet of bbers who have to settle for sirloin or rump or steak mince.

Slamdog - I would rate them equal from a nutrition point of view although Turkey has more zinc in it I believe. However turkey is a drier meat and I normally reserve it for the last 3 weeks before a show as it seems to help me harden up more.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

cool tom as bacon back is great


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Slamdog said:


> just as a sideline Tom, would you rate turkey better than chicken?


Unless you are playing scrabble i would say either or mate..its more about the cut and added sodium than anything


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

cheers guys...

i was under the impression that turkey was a fair bit lower in fat and slightly higher in protein but not by much.

but a bit cheaper than chicken these days...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i will agree with Tom to your choices of fatty meats like pork scratchings and processed food are rubbish, you may be losing weight but is it fat? or muscle?

the amino profile of these meats(loose term) is poor at best you may want the fats but there are much more efficient ways to get fats in for a KETO diet and i would love some one to disagree with me..

Nuts/Salmon/Mackerel/Olives/Olive Oil/Peanut Butter are all better choices than processed meats and pork scratchings to use these two over the list i have mentioned is lazy in my opinion.

By using good protein sources and adding fats to them will help shed fat on this style of diet and preserve muscle or even build muscle and the more muscle you have the more calories you burn at rest.

Even Atkins himself revised his fat sources from his original Atkins diet because he found loading up on trans-fats and to many saturated fats to be not as a efficient as loading up on more good fats.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Tinytom said:


> Im not criticising the Keto diet but many people use it as an excuse to eat sh*t
> 
> Butter is good for you I accept that but Mayo, Porkscratchings, frankfurters. All laden with trans fats and all contributing to CV disease.
> 
> ...


Mate don't take offence to anything i say, i am only really questioning some of today's misconceptions about fat and how in fact it is not nearly as bad for you as what we are lead to believe.

Now i agree with you on the trans fat and the salt health implications...so i will try to cut them out or at least just occasionally as a treat.

I do not particularly like high fat foods in any sense and i am not enjoying all this steak etc, so i am not using it as an excuse to eat crap. I personally would much more like a nice sweet potato with salad and lean chicken with a drizzle of Virgin.

I lost 7 stone in a year on a 1000 calorie a day diet whilst running 6 nights for the entire year despite having pearcing headaches and barley being able to get out of bed a lot of the time. So i would consider myself far from lazy!

In regards to cardio i have just observed from my own personal experience that cardio is not needed to loose fat. I have tried both ways and for me it is diet that is the real key.

So why perform a muscle wasting exercise when i do not need too.

You have added many good points in your posts (And you Pscarb) that i will defiantly take on board but i can make up my own mind on what i choose to believe and what i do not...but please do not take offence mate, i really do appreciate your input :beer:


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

O i measured myself last night and i have lost 1" from my waist and none from anywhere else.


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

Well done on loosing an inch, thank you very much for the reciepe as well


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Woody

Fair enough, just seemed like my help was being thrown back at me. Of course its your decision and I respect that, I just wanted you to make the most progress you could as I know what a fight you've had.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

cwoody123 said:


> In regards to cardio i have just observed from my own personal experience that cardio is not needed to loose fat. I have tried both ways and for me it is diet that is the real key.


Do you not believe in energy flux though?

TBh there is no doubt unless you have a lighteneing quick metabolism the combination of diet, cardio and weights has benefits over diet and weights only. This has been shown plenty of times.

Thats susbtrate utilisation and the enrgy flux for you

What is the lowest BF% you have been to as in your avatar it looks around 15-18% is

have you tried getting razor sharp without cardio?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

cwoody123 said:


> i can make up my own mind on what i choose to believe and what i do not...but please do not take offence mate, i really do appreciate your input :beer:


no offence is ever taken unless an insult is being made, we advise to what we see the best approach for fat loss and muscle saving and this is where i was confused to why you made the choices you did when their so many better choices available to you.

Cardio does alot more than just lose fat, what i don't understand is if you are losing fat without cardio why not speed up the process and add it in 3-4 times a week??

I am intrigued by you losing 1in from your waist and no where else on your body what do you put this spot reduction down to??


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I could easily do cardio if i liked but i believe and have experienced lots of muscle loss from doing so...this was also probably down to not eating enough and unknowingly having no testosterone at the time.

I don't believe that it is spot reduction, its more the order in which fat comes off. My upper half is pretty lean, i seem to hold a lot on my hips, if i loose water or fat in this area it will have an affect on the measurement of my waist (Well that's my theory anyway  )


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Lost Soul said:


> Do you not believe in energy flux though?
> 
> TBh there is no doubt unless you have a lighteneing quick metabolism the combination of diet, cardio and weights has benefits over diet and weights only. This has been shown plenty of times.
> 
> ...


Energy flux? excuse me for being dim but whats that all about?

Where has this been shown plenty of times? I have also seen people make who look fantastic who do no cardio

Cardio burns relativity small amounts of calories and also raises catabolic hormones...i would just rather not eat 300-400 calories rather than slogging my guts for 45 mins, straining my joints and getting shin splints and lower my testosterone.

This is the lowest Bf% i have ever been even when i was 10st i was a lot fatter. Over the next 4 months i want to get sub 10% and that includes a bulking cycle.

Time will tell if i can get razor sharp (would be nice!)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

A few things.

First RomperStomper please do not flame other members, if you have something not nice to say, take it to a PM or give me a PM please with your frusterations.

*Guys the induction phase of the Atkins diet is very simple, this is from their website:*

No more than 20 grams of Carbs. per day. This includes eating 2 to 3 cups salad vegetables a day or other low carb vegetables. The focus of your meals should be on protein and fats. Examples, Meat, nuts, cheese, olives, cream, sour cream and other low carb foods.

After 2 days of the diets, you may want to buy some Lipolysis Testing strips, also known as Ketone Testing Sticks , to test your ketosis level. Do not skip meals. During the Atkins Induction Phase you should not consume fruit, bread, pasta, grains, starchy vegetables, flour, sugar or legumes. It is preferable that you do not eat nuts or seeds during induction. It is preferable that most of the 20 grams of carbs. that you eat during the induction phase come from salad greens and other non starchy vegetables. Never assume that a food is low in carbs. Always check the carb count on the package or use a carbohydrate counter.

OK, the idea here is simple, I do understand what you guys are saying, but honestly he could use some better choices of meat, but all is acceptable on the Atkins/ketogenic diet.

All this is especially in the induction phase of this diet.

The whole idea here is to get into ketosis and stay there for a determined weight loss period of time.

His health will not be compromised, he will not get any better results swapping around fats, adding diffrent protein sources, or anything.

What might need to be addressed is the fact that this diet has a diuretic effect, so a multivitamin would be a good idea, as well as calcium and potassium due to the diuretic effects of the diet. Fish oils should be consumed but that is with any diet or any way of eating.

Again the bacon is not used here as a protein source so lets not even suggest that his protein sources are poor as bacon is being used for its fat.

He can have a burger patty with cheese on it and put some sour cream on that if he likes. No problems what so ever with that.

The whole idea here is to get into ketosis where fat burning is at its highest.

I am getting the flavor of some of these posts that suggest you guys just dont understand what is being done here. Once in ketosis you can not improve the diet, it is doing what it is suppsed to do.

The diet is stopped, or modified once the targeted pounds are gone.

Once this happens the whole thing will change.

Again, his health is not being compromised, his food choices are fine, I would actually like him to eat less carbs as some of the seeds and nuts can creap up on you and kick you out of ketosis.

Once in ketosis, he should feel awesome.

I do think judging by his amount of food, adding in cardio might be a bit catabolic, once he goes off the diet, or the diet stalls, then he can do cardio, he wont need it right now.

His cals in is a bit light.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Once in ketosis, he should feel awesome.


This is the part of the log I am waiting for as the "low-energy" side of things has always worried me with these types of diets.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

cwoody123 said:


> Energy flux? excuse me for being dim but whats that all about?


There is your topic of googling 



> Where has this been shown plenty of times? I have also seen people make who look fantastic who do no cardio
> 
> Cardio burns relativity small amounts of calories and also raises catabolic hormones...i would just rather not eat 300-400 calories rather than slogging my guts for 45 mins, straining my joints and getting shin splints and lower my testosterone.


I posted stuff up RE cortisol and cardio and you are looking at extreme cardio

Cardio mobilises fat more efficiently than diet alone which goes back to the idea of flux



> This is the lowest Bf% i have ever been even when i was 10st i was a lot fatter. Over the next 4 months i want to get sub 10% and that includes a bulking cycle.
> 
> Time will tell if i can get razor sharp (would be nice!)


TBH I don't think you are in a position to comment then RE muscle loss in cardio and body fat. I appreciate you have read a lot but if your current condition is as low as you have been I would listen to the gents here...getting to 10 is a piece of cake...keeping muscle under that is a fine art and I think you will have a change of heart when you get there


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

But if i can get there without it then that would be good. This is no more than a personal experiment for me which i choose to log here. Honestly if it does not work or the effects are minimal it will be plain for myself and you all to see.

i will look up that Flux thingy now ;-)


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Bump for later read.

An average male that does the 14 day induction Atkins diet will loose about 12 lbs (if memory serves) in 14 days, on average.

I know people that have made really good results doing the keto diet and being in ketosis.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Shame no one has anything really interesting to say on this topic, loads of misconceptions going on both sides of this argument. Most people that excel in bodybuilding are carb burners and gain best from clean burning fats hence I get where they are coming from, plus bacon and pork scratchings are just sh1t.

However

Salmon - mainly farmed and has a craping fatty acid profile

beef - cattle are grain fed these days so ditto

nuts - only a few are worth talking about like walnuts and almonds and almonds need soaking

P.Butter - over rated

Mackrell - the dogs bollox, load with coenzyme q10 and EFA's

butter - it's good stuff but get the free range and only use a little a day

double cream - worth getting if you can find free range produced

avocado's - do contain carbs but half a day

free range meat - any type but grass feed, if you can't afford it then yes lean meats will be better.

coconut oil - really great stuff, been shown to lower BF by increasing the metabolism and kill bad bacteria.

creamed coconut - barts organic, you can just eat this right out of the pack

sardines, sprats, hering hell theres loads of oily fish that are all great.

whole eggs - free range of course.

organ meat - yes from free ranged animals, it's loaded with nutrients even if it does taste like ****.

Olive oil - well Extra virgin olive oil (unfiltered) to be precise, another great oil

Fish oils - everyone knows about these


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## Clydefrog (Apr 20, 2007)

In your profile, Woody, it says you are a Graphic Designer. What do you design?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Websites, Magazine adverts, graphics, 3d models etc...


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## Clydefrog (Apr 20, 2007)

Are you freelance?


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 10*

Today my mind felt sharp all morning and mood was good, i seemed to get those afternoon blues again where i just want to go home and go to bed. Which when i get home i do for about an hour, i then feel much better again.

As i mentioned before i took all my measurements and the only one that changed was 1" off my waist. I maybe lost some fat and water on my hips which is where i seem predisposed to hold fat.

I am still in ketosis, i notice that at different times of the day the ketone's are stronger, sometimes there are traces and other times there are large amounts.

Breakfast:

Omelette made with cream 4 eggs, mushrroms, chopped cucumber.

Snack:

Nuts

Lunch:

Salad made with cheese, garlic sausage, beef, mayo, cucumber, avacado, half a tomato, mayo, pepper.

Snack:

Jelly

low carb cookie

Coffee

Dinner:

3 Chicken legs, Gravy, Cabbage, sugar snap peas.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Clydefrog said:


> Are you freelance?


Sort of mate. I am also an IT manager...all very complicated


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

cwoody123 said:


> O i measured myself last night and i have lost 1" from my waist and none from anywhere else.





cwoody123 said:


> this was also probably down to not eating enough and unknowingly having no testosterone at the time.
> 
> I don't believe that it is spot reduction, its more the order in which fat comes off. My upper half is pretty lean, i seem to hold a lot on my hips, if i loose water or fat in this area it will have an affect on the measurement of my waist (Well that's my theory anyway  )


nice theory mate but the top quote clearly states no loss any where else so that is in fact spot reduction, it is hard for me to believe you have lost as much as 1inch off your waste whilst not losing anything from any where else as stated.



hackskii said:


> I do understand what you guys are saying, but honestly he could use some better choices of meat, but all is acceptable on the Atkins/ketogenic diet.?


yes acceptable but why settle for crap when you can acheive the same if not better results with better choices



hackskii said:


> His health will not be compromised, he will not get any better results swapping around fats, adding diffrent protein sources, or anything.


 this is just not true, his health will be compromised if he eats to many trans-fats as they are not used like other fats, plus his muscle base will increase if he choose more complete proteins you cannot get round this fact.



hackskii said:


> What might need to be addressed is the fact that this diet has a diuretic effect, so a multivitamin would be a good idea, as well as calcium and potassium due to the diuretic effects of the diet.


 the diuretic effect is from the lack of carbs just like any other diet due to the amount of water the body holds per gram of carbs(2.7g)



hackskii said:


> Again the bacon is not used here as a protein source so lets not even suggest that his protein sources are poor as bacon is being used for its fat.


 this may be so why not choose salmon or mackerel both will give sufficient fat plus the added benefit of decent protein??



hackskii said:


> I am getting the flavor of some of these posts that suggest you guys just dont understand what is being done here. Once in ketosis you can not improve the diet, it is doing what it is suppsed to do.


we understand what he is doing Scott it is we disagree on the foods he is eating yes you are correct that ketosis will be achieved what me and Tom are saying you can achieve this with better choices of foods without the harmful trans-fats and the added benefit of better more complete protein foods i just don't understand the choice of substandard foods when their are better choices available.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Well i am trying to clean the diet up a bit mate...Have fresh mackeral in the freezer so will dig out.

Anyone know any good recipes for mackerel to make it a bit more interesting? I'm thinking lemon and ground pepper?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

If you are in ketosis then you are loosing fat, period!

Personally, I wouldn't change a thing.

Woody, how long are you going to do the keto diet?


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

cwoody123 said:


> But if i can get there without it then that would be good. This is no more than a personal experiment for me which i choose to log here. Honestly if it does not work or the effects are minimal it will be plain for myself and you all to see.
> 
> i will look up that Flux thingy now ;-)


Well this is what im saying

Anything you do will get you to 10% its that point and below ehere all this theory may need changing 



thestudbeast said:


> *Shame no one has anything really interesting to say on this topic, loads of misconceptions going on both sides of this argument.* Most people that excel in bodybuilding are carb burners and gain best from clean burning fats hence I get where they are coming from, plus bacon and pork scratchings are just sh1t.


Go ahead then make it interesting and debate the points 



> P.Butter - over rated


Agree and TBH shyte a lot of the time


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Fillet the mackerel and roll the fillet with the skin on the out side. Put a skewer through the fillets and grill (use a little coconut oil or butter to keep it moist). Make a salsa to go with it as a sauce from avarcardo, tomatoes, onion, coriander and a little olive oil. Serve with broccoli.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Ok i have a couple of Boo Boo's to own up too, it was not just my waist where there was weight loss. I did i full measure up this morning and checked it against my results that i posted (I was doing it in my head the first time!)

*Here are my actual measurments taken today measured with Myotape:*

*Hips/Bum -- 37"*

*
Waist -- 33.1/6"*

*
Chest -- 37"*

*
Neck -- 15"*

*
Bicep -- R-14 1/4" L-14"*

*
Legs -- R-22 1/2" L- 22"*

So Pscarb you are right the weight loss was not all in one place. I am thinking most of this is water & Glycogen thou as my chest area, arms and shoulders are definatly looking a lot flatter and softer.

Start measurments:

Hips/Bum -- 37"

Waist -- 34"

Chest -- 38"

Neck -- 15"

Bicep -- R-14 1/4" L-14"

Legs -- R-23 1/2" L- 22 1/2"

I also tested my blood pressure today and it was *134/64* so all good!

People can choose to believe what they want, i have no reason to lie to myself or to any of you, if you feel that way then please feel free to ignore the post.

Romper Stomper for some one who thinks so little of me and my progress you seem to be frequnting this post an awful lot!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Woody i am not having a go mate when i post i have to be honest on my opinions of peoples diets and this is all i was doing, Keto diets work period i have used them myself and on people i coach many many times with a 100% success rate i was merly pointing out that for a guy who takes steroids more thought should be put into high fat foods with decent protein profiles, i actually had your best interest in mind....

As for the size loss it is not about me being correct or not it is about you being able to keep acurate records so you can track your progress and yes at this stage i would bet most if not all was water and glycogen loss...


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

*Day 14*

Ok so i weighed myself this morning and i weigh 11st 10 which is a lb heavier than last week. I have been in ketosis all week, my mind is sharp now and i don't feel week training any more.

I have had some light head aches of late but nothing to bad, they seem to go as quick as they came.

Looking in the mirror i think i look leaner, my hips feel leaner and my tummy is showing a little more definition, i had a quick measure of my waist and it is now 32 1/2" as opposed to 33" last week.

As i have gone up a lb do you think i have actually put on a little muscle or maybe put on some fat.

Do you think i should reduce calories a little or dare i say it do some cardio, or just leave things how they are?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I would keep the cals as the same.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

you can do light cardio on a keto diet


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

cwoody123 said:


> *Day 14*
> 
> As i have gone up a lb do you think i have actually put on a little muscle or maybe put on some fat.


If it went down by 3lbs would you equate that to 3 solid pounds of fat have been burt up and used ? Thats ALOT of energy!

personally Ive pretty much sacked off using scales after watching an episode of Ultimate fighter, 4th episode 1st series. a guy is 20lbs overweight for his class and has 24 hours to lose the weight !!! He weighs in next day at 4lbs over and has 2 hours to lose the weight. 2 hours later hes within the limit for his weight class. If the human body can fluctuate its weight by that much then its a pretty poor measurement of fat loss or muscle gain.

Go by the mirror mate. People can weigh whatever they want, your goal isnt to weigh in at a certain weight, its to look better, so judge your results by the mirror.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

20 lbs overweight would be an awful lot of water to lose, almost 3 gallons.


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## greg fear (Nov 8, 2007)

i really want to try a keto style diet,

i think im going to do one after i have done my show :beer:


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

hackskii said:


> 20 lbs overweight would be an awful lot of water to lose, almost 3 gallons.


I know, its bonkers !!! But he does it, wet suit, on a cycling machine in sauna for many hours. But I guess when you are made up of 60% odd water its can easily be done. Just shows how weight isnt really a good measurement of someones physical attributes. Personally my weight can fluctuate over half a stone through the day without me trying.


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

Greg you go to same gym as me it seems! Good ol' Burns!


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## greg fear (Nov 8, 2007)

adesign said:


> Greg you go to same gym as me it seems! Good ol' Burns!


yes mate i do:thumb:


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## Mr Brown (Mar 20, 2007)

How's it going Woody?


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## drago78 (Oct 1, 2007)

He is banned


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

drago78 said:


> He is banned


What did he get banned for?


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

being a complete nob


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I will mis you woodie.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

gym rat said:


> being a complete nob


i salute the man that wrote this and all he stands for. reps!


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

did he seriously get banned? what for ?


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