# how steroids/bodybuilding change your face?



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

I was looking through the pics on my Facebook today and realised how dramatically my face has changed since lifting/using gear.here is a pic of me 10 months ago just before I started lifting and one from today. I look like a completely different person!


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## Sweat (Jun 24, 2012)

Steroids have cut you hair short and given you a beard, weird side effects!


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## HJL (Apr 26, 2009)

#picwhore


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## musio (Jan 25, 2008)

What do you mean, bloated?


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

and have aged me by about 10 years!! haha


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

sh.it!!!

you went from looking like a student...to a cu.nt!!


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

could be worse, could wear vests and baseball caps


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## HJL (Apr 26, 2009)

i think everyones face changes once on gear. even when they come off. wider, caveman brow ect.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Bloat...


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> could be worse, could wear vests and baseball caps


lol. terrible comeback. you know im just playing.

get some tren and ephedrine in there and you will have a chissle chin in no time


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

anabolik said:


> Bloat...


you reckon that's all it is?


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## gambitbullet1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Ithink its the surplus of androgens having an effect on bone shape, pronounced brow and so on


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> lol. terrible comeback. you know im just playing.
> 
> get some tren and ephedrine in there and you will have a chissle chin in no time


I know dude but iv not seen many of your posts so can only hurt you via avi lol.

I'm scared of tren if I'm honest. lol


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> you reckon that's all it is?


What else is it going to be?

You've been hammering the dbol and test of course it's going to affect your facial features it would be strange if it didn't. Water weight on the face changes how you look did you not know this?


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## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

Do androgens really alter bone density and shape??


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> I know dude but iv not seen many of your posts so can only hurt you via avi lol.
> 
> I'm scared of tren if I'm honest. lol


well like all great things...you would be a fool not to fear it. with great power comes great responsibility.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

anabolik said:


> What else is it going to be?
> 
> You've been hammering the dbol and test of course it's going to affect your facial features it would be strange if it didn't. Water weight on the face changes how you look did you not know this?


yeah of course I know what bloat is dude, but it seems more than just a bit of bloat, it's not just since iv been on this cycle, even when not o gear it has changed a lot. I could understand if I was in my late teens and puberty and all but I'm almost 25 lol. bit late for facial development I would have thought.


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## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)

Keep on taking them till you get a proper beard mate :lol:


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## gambitbullet1 (Apr 7, 2011)

klint37 said:


> Do androgens really alter bone density and shape??


I remember a study i read a while back about how androgens are introduced to kids who are hypogonadal, to create some virilization in the face and body.

Plus from this video im sure you can see the effects of hormone therepy on femal to males, though not a perfect example as not the same situation


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## pYp3s (Nov 8, 2012)

gambitbullet1 said:


> I remember a study i read a while back about how androgens are introduced to kids who are hypogonadal, to create some virilization in the face and body.
> 
> Plus from this video im sure you can see the effects of hormone therepy on femal to males, though not a perfect example as not the same situation


Man that bold guy/girls voice is annoying as ****


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> yeah of course I know what bloat is dude, but it seems more than just a bit of bloat, it's not just since iv been on this cycle, even when not o gear it has changed a lot. I could understand if I was in my late teens and puberty and all but I'm almost 25 lol. bit late for facial development I would have thought.


Well your hair is also now shorter and you have a beard and spots lol of course you look different. Your jaw looks more masculine because there's hair covering it that's one of the plus points of having facial hair it accentuates your jaw line.

Lose the extra fat and water weight you've gained, grow your hair and shave your beard and you'll look almost identical to the before pic.


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## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

Lol that was a wierd clip. lol humm so going a little duce bag beardcan cover up the fact they r transexual. i will be keeping away from those people.


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## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

klint37 said:


> Do androgens really alter bone density and shape??


no


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

At least the test made him lose the Justin Beiber barnet


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> I was looking through the pics on my Facebook today and realised how dramatically my face has changed since lifting/using gear.here is a pic of me 10 months ago just before I started lifting and one from today. I look like a completely different person!


They haven't changed your face that much, you still look like an ugly Cnut!!


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## Skinny Guy (Jul 24, 2011)

You're still ugly mate, no amount of aas is going to change that :lol:


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

Skinny Guy said:


> You're still ugly mate, no amount of aas is going to change that :lol:


Too late buddy beat you to it ^^^^


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

KRIS_B said:


> They haven't changed your face that much, you still look like an ugly Cnut!!


that Justin beiber hair got me more gash than I knew what to do with


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## slunkeh (Apr 21, 2011)

I personally think they do change your face. If they can change a female to look like a male then they can surely enhance the male characteristics of a male. I feel from taking gear my jaw has grown in size and so does my girlfriend think this. She thinks i look more manly in the face. Another thing is girls seem be to be more attracted to me just from my face due to it looking more masculine. This is just my experiance, might not effect everyone the same but i personally like the way it has effected my face.


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> that Justin beiber hair got me more gash than I knew what to do with


Were they all the same age as justins fans aswell?? Ewww you kiddie fiddler you need to change your name to Igotjimmysaville :laugh:


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

KRIS_B said:


> Were they all the same age as justins fans aswell?? Ewww you kiddie fiddler you need to change your name to Igotjimmysaville :laugh:


iv actually done a fair few oldies mate lol. when I was 21 I was slipping in a 50 year old hahaha. and when I say slipping in I actually mean falling in it with an echo.

horrific 2 weeks that was.


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## lucs (Apr 8, 2011)

when you get to my age a changed face would be a + point


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2012)

With the DOMS I get, my face is permanantly screwed up in pain !!!!! OLD AGE ISN'T FAIR.


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## BoxerJay (Jan 11, 2011)

Sweat said:


> Steroids have cut you hair short and given you a beard, weird side effects!


Just actually laughed out loud! well done lol


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

Hair looks thinner in the 'after' pic.

:laugh:


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

MrLulz said:


> Hair looks thinner in the 'after' pic.
> 
> :laugh:


your Damn right dude lol. been losing it for a while now. Im allowed to shave it on the 13th of march :bounce:


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## pYp3s (Nov 8, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> I was looking through the pics on my Facebook today and realised how dramatically my face has changed since lifting/using gear.here is a pic of me 10 months ago just before I started lifting and one from today. I look like a completely different person!


Hahahahahah


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## pYp3s (Nov 8, 2012)

Oh wtf... yout changed the pic but it hasn't come up in the quote.


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## BigMitchh (Sep 25, 2012)

you've now got that black genetics it appears.


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## pYp3s (Nov 8, 2012)

BigMitchh said:


> you've now got that black genetics it appears.


can AAS really do that :lol:


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## Carpenter (Jun 30, 2010)

I still look the same, It has made what hair I had on my head dissapear to my chest and back!! Comboverrrrrrr!


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

was tagged in a fb pic next to (quite a small,admittedly) girl and I swear my jaw is the size of her whole fcuking head :lol:

Of course I blamed the camera angle.. But I fear I'll look like American dad before long


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## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

nice transformation bro. you have put hell of a lot muscle mass on your lips in such a short time

you must have nailed your diet/training lol or is it mostly water retention pmsl


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

The edit made my ribs hurt :lol: :lol:


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## BigMitchh (Sep 25, 2012)

pYp3s said:


> can AAS really do that :lol:


Haha well just look at the pictures. All the scientific evidence i need :thumb:


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## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

so how do we drain all that water out of us? im da same


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## pYp3s (Nov 8, 2012)

Gotista said:


> so how do we drain all that water out of us? im da same


could take an AI during your cycle, still it should subside in time.

personally i dont mind a bit of water/bloat


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Is this thread for real? I can't quite cope, maybe its the tren but come on now!


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## chiangmaidave (Nov 16, 2012)

You look a bit like Steven Tyler from aerosmith....with short hair.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

RowRow said:


> Is this thread for real? I can't quite cope, maybe its the tren but come on now!


I don't even know what's real anymore.


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> I was looking through the pics on my Facebook today and realised how dramatically my face has changed since lifting/using gear.here is a pic of me 10 months ago just before I started lifting and one from today. I look like a completely different person!


You look much hotter in your first photo


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

misshayley said:


> You look much hotter in your first photo


We're all doomed :lol:


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

ditz said:


> We're all doomed :lol:


Haha why? Do u look like this as well?


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

Yep - another knuckle dragging meathead lol


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

ditz said:


> Yep - another knuckle dragging meathead lol


Pic or no meathead


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

This was a couple of years ago, but can issue you it's much meatier now!

Pics or no studentpooffancyinglady


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

ditz said:


> View attachment 102971
> 
> 
> This was a couple of years ago, but can issue you it's much meatier now!
> ...


Still needs to be be more meater


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

I'll work on it


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

To answer this question definitively you just have to look at female bodybuilders


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> I know dude but iv not seen many of your posts so can only hurt you via avi lol.
> 
> I'm scared of tren if I'm honest. lol


why? my girl's on 200mg tren e and 100mg tren a/week.. no diff to deca, just with no water retention.


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## k3z (Oct 17, 2007)

HJL said:


> i think everyones face changes once on gear. even when they come off. wider, caveman brow ect.


And they say you loose all gains after coming off !


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## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

Hummm meaty enough???


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

ausbuilt said:


> why? my girl's on 200mg tren e and 100mg tren a/week.. no diff to deca, just with no water retention.


Have u got a pic of her? Just a normal before and after AAS use?


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

klint37 said:


> Hummm meaty enough???


Wow well done u ! What as massive change you should be so proud of yourself


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

DB said:


> Have u got a pic of her? Just a normal before and after AAS use?


Naked


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DB said:


> Have u got a pic of her? Just a normal before and after AAS use?


3 years apart, 1st photo 57kg, 2nd 80kg.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Naked


great pics in the adult lounge...


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> great pics in the adult lounge...


Yep! 

Such a shame the guy can't access the AL :laugh:


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> why? my girl's on 200mg tren e and 100mg tren a/week.. no diff to deca, just with no water retention.


The androgen load is massive with Tren compared to deca.

Just cos they are both nandrolone based doesn't mean they are no different to each other.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DB said:


> Have u got a pic of her? Just a normal before and after AAS use?


@DB, over the past 3 years she's done test prop at 100mg/week, deca at 100mg/week, eq at up to 150mg/week, and for the past 2 weeks tren. To be honest she had less sides from the tren than the Eq! In fact I would say categorically that tren works just like deca, but without the water, its less androgenic than Eq (which has a 2:1 ratio). Ive read some cattle studies that say tren is 3:1 (deca is about 3:0.45) so this makes sense....

apart from being 3 years older, and more muscular body wise (plus some other "benefits" shown in the AL pics) her face is pretty much the same. I would say that when it comes to female BBs, there are 2 factors:

1. Some never started out to pretty

2. The really big ones use nearly as much test as me, and over a few years, that does masculanize the face and body. As long as they stick to anabolics or only low dose T, the masuculanisation doesn't happen.



Hotdog147 said:


> Yep!
> 
> Such a shame the guy can't access the AL :laugh:


rub it in.... :lol:


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## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

misshayley said:


> Wow well done u ! What as massive change you should be so proud of yourself


Cheers  . Winter bulk is almost there. just need a couple more folds of muscle and will be set for my man kini down at bondi beach


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> The androgen load is massive with Tren compared to deca.
> 
> Just cos they are both nandrolone based doesn't mean they are no different to each other.


mate both the science and experience don't bear this out AT ALL:

"...The activity spectrum of trenbolone acetate is similar to that of 19-nortestosterone or those anabolics that are derived from 19-nortestosterone. The compound has about three times stronger androgenic effect than testosterone propionate. Its index of dissociation between anabolic/androgenic activity is 2--3. This index is 3--10 for the other anabolic agents"

from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/782871

Now Eq is 2:1, and famously Primo (supposedly good for women) is quoted at 88: 41-57, which is roughly 2:1, same as Eq.... experience agrees with this.

Now, tren at 500:500 is a joke. If this was true, you'd get bigger on tren than test, and youd have a prostate the size of a balloon, skin like a pizza and and be bald as brazillian girls cvnt...

The reality is, tren in veterinary studies (not rat models) as noted above, is found to practically be in the range of 2:1 up to 3:1, so at the 3:1 range, its pretty damn close to deca....

Anadrol 50:

Androgenic: Anabolic Ratio: 45:320

Anavar:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 322-630:24

Androil:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 100:100

Andropen 275:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range):100:100

Deca-Durabolin:

Anabolic/Androgenic ratio: 125:37

Dianabol:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 90-210:40-60

Equipoise:

Anabolic/ Androgenic ratio: 100:50

Halotestin:

Anabolic/Androgenic ratio:1,900/850

Masteron:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio:62:25

NPP:

Androgenic/Anabolic ratio: 37:125

Omnadren:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio: 100:100

Oral Turnibol:

Anabolic/ Androgenic ratio: >100:>0

Parabolan (Tren):

Anabolic/Androgenic ratio: 500/500

Primobolan:

Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88:44-57

Proviron:

Androgenic: Anabolic Ratio:30-40/100-150

Sustanon 250:

Anabolic/Androgenic ratio:100/100

Testosterone Cyp, Enanthate, Prop, Suspension

Anabolic/Androgenic ratio:100/100

Winstrol:

Androgenic/Anabolic Ratio:30:320


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

klint37 said:


> Cheers  . Winter bulk is almost there. just need a couple more folds of muscle and will be set for my man kini down at bondi beach


Perfect come and see me on Bondi


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Well I'm not going to argue with you ausbuilt but deca is not the same as Tren.

If it was then more female athletes would use and I do know of females that have used Tren and had serious virilisation issues.

I think it's very dangerous to suggest to people who might read this that Tren is just the same as deca but without water retention.

The blood pressure and aggression issues with Tren are well documented and the higher androgens will affect this more than deca.

Same as the effect on LDL cholesterol and the skin problems which are more prevailous than deca.

I don't believe you are right to play down the potential risks.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

ausbuilt, honestly I think you're crazy. Androgens for women is a one-way street, thickening the mid section, deepening of the voice and enlarged eyebrow rides and jaw.


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## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

If androgens then cause ur jaw to grow can it then crack teeth with fillings in megatron.? sorry miss hayley turnd out i need three seats on the plane so no can travell


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Well I'm not going to argue with you ausbuilt but deca is not the same as Tren.
> 
> If it was then more female athletes would use and I do know of females that have used Tren and had serious virilisation issues.
> 
> ...


Sorry mate, tren does not cause any different LDL cholesterol issues than winstrol; there's also no documented proof that tren causes BP rise over other AAS as well; in fact tren should lower BP- as that usually is associated with oedema (water retention) hence both diuretics and ACE Inhibitors both affect water balance to control BP (even in non-AAS using athletes).

Very few men would run either deca or tren solo, but girls do; run solo, tren seems to act not much different to deca (not saying the same, just not wildly different). I think most of the issues with tren arise from use with test- that the tren magnifies the sides from the test (particularly with men, and why running low test/high tren seems to be gaining popularity).

Aggression, I'm not disputing for either girls or guys, its definitely noticeable.

I would stand by the statement that from a virilisation perspective, tren does less to a woman than Eq; and this is born out by the studies that show that tren is somewhere between 2:1 and 3:1 (and 2:1 is Eq); however, this is running the drug SOLO....

I'm NOT recommending women take tren or ANY AAS. I'm NOT saying deca and tren are the same; BUT if a woman has CHOSEN to take AAS, and run solo, without stacking, both the theory and practice indicate there's not that much difference in virilisation between the two. Like with ANY AAS, the idea is run the short ester first, and try a very low dose (10-15mg EOD or E3D) and judge effects... its not an instant process...



megatron said:


> ausbuilt, honestly I think you're crazy. Androgens for women is a one-way street, thickening the mid section, deepening of the voice and enlarged eyebrow rides and jaw.


mate loads women run test for shows, particularly drug tested shows; not loads but some. Some girls love being on test, some hate it (oddly it makes some women LESS horny and happy, in fact quite the opposite); deca & tren tend to make women feel better than test from what I've noticed over the women I've known over the years; of course its very individual.


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## Se7en (Jun 24, 2012)

improvement


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> why? my girl's on 200mg tren e and 100mg tren a/week.. no diff to deca, just with no water retention.


so it's not true that is is more "aggressive"? if you get what I mean. that puts my mind at ease a little.. might add it to the cycle after deca


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

aas has never aged me i look younger than my age. if i blow up a water bloated moon face i look older tho.


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## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

pYp3s said:


> could take an AI during your cycle, still it should subside in time.
> 
> personally i dont mind a bit of water/bloat


how about winstrol??


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> so it's not true that is is more "aggressive"? if you get what I mean. that puts my mind at ease a little.. might add it to the cycle after deca


No, i specifically said I don't dispute the aggression from tren; it IS noticeable- even on girls. However that doesnt mean its androgenic per se; women get aggressive on just about any AAS.. its dose dependent, and women are more sensitive.

I would say for men, if not taking test at the same time, but tren only, you'd hardly notice any aggression- just very few men do tren with no test at all.



stone14 said:


> aas has never aged me i look younger than my age. if i blow up a water bloated moon face i look older tho.


x2... especially about the bloat!



Gotista said:


> how about winstrol??


wintrol causes no water retention.


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> women get aggressive on just about any AAS..


Women get aggressive if they don't have enough chocolate in there system :lol:

I can only imagine what it's like living with a woman on gear.. Fair play to you lol!


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

IGotTekkers said:


> I was looking through the pics on my Facebook today and realised how dramatically my face has changed since lifting/using gear.here is a pic of me 10 months ago just before I started lifting and one from today. I look like a completely different person!


Well at least its an improvement


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh my, comparing anabolics to androgenics are one thing.

Tren is more androgenic than testosterone, it activates the receptors and has a higher affinity than testosterone.

Trenbolone compounds have a binding affinity for the androgen receptor five times as high as that of testosterone.

At least one study in rats has shown that Trenbolone causes gene expression with the androgen receptor at least as potent as DHT

If virilization issues come from androgens, then why in the world would a woman want a androgenic compound, or one that acts as a androgen at the receptor level over an anabolic?

The issue with the prostate is estrogen and DHT, lets not forget that DHT inhibitor drugs cause cell death in the prostate.

I do not feel it is wise to let women use tren, or even testosterone yet they do produce about 1/10th the amount we do or upper end is 68 at normal base levels.

My blood pressure went through the roof when I was on mast, test, and tren, at a total of 500 test, 200 mast, 200 tren a week, highest ever on those.

I assumed it was the tren as test and mast was not off the chart.


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## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> No, i specifically said I don't dispute the aggression from tren; it IS noticeable- even on girls. However that doesnt mean its androgenic per se; women get aggressive on just about any AAS.. its dose dependent, and women are more sensitive.
> 
> I would say for men, if not taking test at the same time, but tren only, you'd hardly notice any aggression- just very few men do tren with no test at all.
> 
> ...


does winstrol drain the water out of u though?


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

We will endlessly disagree on those points Aus.

Good information. Although I was comparing LDL with tren and deca not winstrol which is well known for nasty adverse effects on cholesterol. Most likely due to DHT but haven't got the time to troll pubmed today.

Also like to point out that taking any nandrolone based product as a male and not adding a testosterone severely will affect libido and might cause depression. I've seen that quoted a lot.

I would always recommend a test element in any course with tren or deca. That's probably why women get on ok with it as their test is naturally low anyway.


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Either way AUS has kept his girl looking feminine so he's doing something right.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

geeby112 said:


> Either way AUS has kept his girl looking feminine so he's doing something right.


apparently iv got about another 7 months and I get to see that for myself


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> sh.it!!!
> 
> you went from looking like a student...to a cu.nt!!


top 5 favorite comments Ive ever seen on this site, ever.


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Sure I seen the op's face on the youtubes? Dbolman or something


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Sku11fk said:


> Sure I seen the op's face on the youtubes? Dbolman or something


that's me mate.


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## TheHandsomeOne (Nov 27, 2012)

Why did you warp the "after" pic OP? Now we can't even really compare.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

TheHandsomeOne said:


> Why did you warp the "after" pic OP? Now we can't even really compare.


warp it? what you on about? lull


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## TheHandsomeOne (Nov 27, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> warp it? what you on about? lull


Your mouth, you used one of those special effects to warp it. Do you have an unedited pic so that I can actually compare.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

TheHandsomeOne said:


> Your mouth, you used one of those special effects to warp it. Do you have an unedited pic so that I can actually compare.


that's my face dude. got those black genetics.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> yeah of course I know what bloat is dude, but it seems more than just a bit of bloat, it's not just since iv been on this cycle, even when not o gear it has changed a lot. I could understand if I was in my late teens and puberty and all but I'm almost 25 lol. bit late for facial development I would have thought.


Same here even off gear ooohhhh about 11 months ago my face was more idk thicker and my jawline was alot thicker and denser aswell. My face has definantly changed .


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> that's me mate.


I thought you were brave to do a cycle log on gear. I watch a ton and I mean a ton of YouTube fitness videos, always looking for new channels.

Considered doing a vlog myself but on not sure I would compete against the Americans. Hodgetwins, tigerfitness ,Campbell fitness , Nick Wright, physics of greatness, Matt ogus. All American and to succeed I think you have to appease the fans of atleast some of these guys


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hackskii said:


> Oh my, comparing anabolics to androgenics are one thing.
> 
> Tren is more androgenic than testosterone, it activates the receptors and has a higher affinity than testosterone.
> 
> ...


yes, according to the Hersheberger assays, tren binds 5x better than test to the A/R; however, according to the same assays, then DHT binds 30x better than test (and hence 6x better than tren right?); well, proviron is 1-methyl DHT, and women regularly use it with nolvadex/arimidex when dieting for comps to move the fat of thighs; same with masteron. Both Proviron and masteron (and masteron in particular) where used before AIs where invented to treat women with oestrogen dependent breast cancer...

I really can't see Tren being 6x more androgenic than proviron or masteron (or DHT). Practical experience bears this out- women are often fine on 1x proviron, but 2x proviron/day tends to have a virilising effect... thats only 50mg of DHT... most women cope with test at a higher level than that...

There's really some misunderstanding on the whole androgen/anabolic ratio; its deeply flawed methodologically. I think the cattle studies on tren are more correct in saying the disassociation of anabolic to androgenic is 2 or 3 to 1; lets not forget that tren and nandrolone are progestogens- and progestogens have androgenic qualities (oestrogen does not).

from a BP perspective, if you look at the gluco-corticoid (GC) receptor binding ability of tren, you can see that it acts via the angiotensin-renin sytem to reduce aldosterone, and hence (like ACE inhibitors) would lower BP... except for the aromatisation and oestrogen rise causing the opposite...

Taking tren alone would give no BP issue..



Tinytom said:


> We will endlessly disagree on those points Aus.
> 
> Good information. Although I was comparing LDL with tren and deca not winstrol which is well known for nasty adverse effects on cholesterol. Most likely due to DHT but haven't got the time to troll pubmed today.
> 
> ...


well, I'm just calling it as I see it...

But I DO agree with you on the tren alone- it would def cause depresson initially, as you would shut down test fast, reducing natural aromatisaion/oestrogen levels. Naturally this would reduce libido. So no disagreement there at all; I'm not saying running tren without test is the answer, but I am saying that the most negative aspects of tren use are based on the test levels being high....

I also agree, doing deca (nandrolone) solo, works wonderfully for women, bad badly for men; I USED to believe the hype about tren being super androgenic, but both research and practical experience say that tren ALONE in a woman, where test levels are very low, is less androgenic than test, by a long shot, and so far seems to be at MOST as androgenic as Equipoise, but really somewhere between Eq and Deca.. (as in less androgenic than Eq, but more than deca). Having seen women on both test & tren, over the past few years, I've got to conclude the cattle studies are correct...

So far I'm also finding (as have others on here) that higher ratio of tren to test works far better than the other way around....


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Sku11fk said:


> I thought you were brave to do a cycle log on gear. I watch a ton and I mean a ton of YouTube fitness videos, always looking for new channels.
> 
> Considered doing a vlog myself but on not sure I would compete against the Americans. Hodgetwins, tigerfitness ,Campbell fitness , Nick Wright, physics of greatness, Matt ogus. All American and to succeed I think you have to appease the fans of atleast some of these guys


you don't need to compete against those guys dude. just do your own thing. when I first started it I thought I may get 20 subscribers.. 10 months on I have almost 700 subscribers, well over a quarter of a million video views, been recognised in the gym by people that have seen my vids.. pretty crazy. and iv only got 30 crappy vids lol. it's opened up so many great opportunities for me already. if you wanna do it then just do it


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ausbuilt said:


> yes, according to the Hersheberger assays, tren binds 5x better than test to the A/R; however, according to the same assays, then DHT binds 30x better than test (and hence 6x better than tren right?); well, proviron is 1-methyl DHT, and women regularly use it with nolvadex/arimidex when dieting for comps to move the fat of thighs; same with masteron. Both Proviron and masteron (and masteron in particular) where used before AIs where invented to treat women with oestrogen dependent breast cancer...
> 
> I really can't see Tren being 6x more androgenic than proviron or masteron (or DHT). Practical experience bears this out- women are often fine on 1x proviron, but 2x proviron/day tends to have a virilising effect... thats only 50mg of DHT... most women cope with test at a higher level than that...
> 
> ...


Aus I dont think we can suggest that proviron 1-methyl DHT, acts the very same as DHT, doing so would suggest that Methyl-1-testosterone would act the same as testosterone.

Or, injectable D-bol act the same as oral dbol, and injectable winstrol acting the same as injectable winstrol.

They all act different adding in methylation, or bypassing the liver all together like regular DHT.

Mg for mg, I seriously doubt that proviron acts the same as lets say DHT creams that they do use in Europe.

I know you wrote about this before but once you add methylation, this changes how it reacts in the body.

Chemically speaking proviron is not DHT.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Strong bump


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