# New lady on block needs advice



## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi, I'm Julie, 31, over 4 years ago I had a DS gastric bypass and lost 13st. Without going into it too much, my stomach was reduced in size, removed, not stapled, my intestines are bypassed to a great degree so I do not absorb any more than 20-30% fat and only absorb 50% of protein I eat. I am incredibly healthy, minus the vitamins I have to take, and blood tests I must have, but I must always be diligent.

I have for the past few years maintained a 10st 10lb weight, which at 5ft 3in would sound a lot but I'm a size 12 so about a big average (or what used to be until size zero became popular!).

Until a year ago I was a member of a gym for 2 years, I worked out for about 45 mins a few times a week but nothing too hardcore, more maintenance than anything. I haven't been for about a year as work has been manic and I've been doing 17 hour days so I let it slip.

I think I still have quite a bit of fat I could do with losing, I know some of it will be loose skin but I do believe most is fat. I want to get into the gym doing CV work to burn the fat, but also may look at building some muscle to fill things out, do you think this could be a good approach? I would ideally like to lose 17lb but more than anything I want to be healthy and strong. I'm thinking weight training could be good for me as I am more at risk of osteo.

The diet part I will consult a dietician about, but the advice I'm looking for really is with regard to what CV work would best help strip the fat I have left the fastest, I want to make the most of the time I have to commit to the gym.

Julie


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Julie welcome to the site let me first apologise for the replies you initialy received from some of the members i have deleted them as they are rude and disrespectful......the assumption was made that you are some one else which is definatly not true..

Guys who posted on this thread please *do not*flame a new member assuming they are someone else this will not be tolerated.

Julie back to your issue....

to be honest to help you out is a simple process, cardio would be 30-45min on either the treadmill (walking on incline) or cross trainer the best time is first thing in the morning before breaky next best time is after a weights session.....i would say that a small amount of weight training will help you out loads i would say a split like this...

Day 1 - Upper body

Day 2 - Lower body

do this routine MON/WED/FRI so Mon would be day 1 then Wed Day 2 the Fri Day 3....

Diet....i propose this meal plan it has worked for many women i have given it to in the past...

Meal 1 - 4 whole eggs scrampled or omelatte

Meal 2 - 1 scoop protein + handful of nuts and/or seeds

Meal 3 - Tuna/Salmon/Chicken salad with 2 tbsp of extra virgin olive oil

Meal 4 - 1 scoop protein + handful of nuts and/or seeds

Meal 5 - Chicken/Steak/Salmon along with plenty of veg and salad...

you can replace the nuts and seeds with natural peanut butter which is fantastic 

i hope that this will help you acheive your goals Julie and i also hope you will stick around the guys on this board are good guys ...honest


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## myles (Sep 27, 2006)

Hello Julie, for what reason do you not absorb fat? It sounds like a blessing and a curse in equal measures. Oh and by the way, all the best with your quest to crush the final few pounds and getting fitter.  As for cardio, I do interval training every off day, but you may want to start with a bit of treadmill work, although it is much more pleasant going out running and being able to look at anything else but a gym wall!


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Welcome to the board Julie


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## justdiscovering (May 10, 2007)

munchkin .i believe i owe you an appology ,please accept this as i like others thought you were someone else.welcome to the board you realy have come to a good place .i assumed wrongly of you.


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Pscarb, thank you! It's ok, we all got off on the wrong foot! I understand why if they thought I was this other person they may have wanted to lynch me, I've read the posts!

What I thought I'd do is 45 mins and alternate walking with running if on the treadmill as I'd like to build up my stamina.

There's no way I can do the gym in the morning, leave for work at 6:45am, so what I used to do was go in the eves about 7:15pm when I get home. So weights first and cardio afterwards and alternate upper and lower. What reps should I be looking at, is it still the best way forward for ladies to do low weights and higher reps as opposed to higher weight and lower reps?

Your diet plan is quite similar to what I've been having for the past few days. As per BritBB's advice, which was one of the helpful posts, I will be going to see a private dietician just to get confirmation that I'm on the right track, but I believe I am. My onus for health is on protein first.

With regards to eating, could do with a bit of advice about what do with regarding timing of meals in the eve, I leave work at 5:30pm and I get home about 7:15pm where I will then go to the gym straight, my mistake before was eating when I got home from the gym I think, should I be perhaps eating before I leave work and having a banana or something on route? Could do with some help on this one.

I realise you are all probably a good bunch, I'm sorry we all got off to the wrong start.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

hey munchkin, it seems you have been on quite a journey for your fatloss, you've definatly came to the right place and you've got the right man(pscarb) helping you out, maybe you should start a journal to keep track of your progress and assist you with motivation, all the best


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Julie i did not mean for you to train in the morning sorry if that came across  i was just letting you know that what was the best time to do cardio, what you have suggested is spot on with cardio and weights.....the reps should be kept in the 10-12 range keep the weight moderate not to heavy or light as this will not help...

what i would do is have you 4th meal as you leave work this is a drink and nuts/seeds so you could make up the shake at work in a shaker then bag up some nuts/seeds to eat on the way home then eat meal 5 after your workout...


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi Myles - I had a duodenal switch, basically my stomach is reduced in size and part is removed, it is not stapled. My intestines were then bypassed to a great degree and I only absorb 20-30% of fat and 50% of protein....

Does sound great doesn't it.....After my op we are told we could eat whatever we wanted once the protein was in and I'm a fat girl inside still, so I did just that, I considered a fish finger protein...it said protein on the packet :crazy:

I guess the point is that I have regrets, I wish I'd sorted out my eating and fitness routine before now. I've not gained a lb but no doubt I'll feel 100% more energised when I'm eating well and active and my body will thank me for it.

Curse of course is in the toilet department, like an obesity pill in its natural form! Althought on the flip side, lot to be said for being regular as clockwork.


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Don't worry mate, I forgive ya.

Nice muscles! I think i've got some......somewhere 



justdiscovering said:


> munchkin .i believe i owe you an appology ,please accept this as i like others thought you were someone else.welcome to the board you realy have come to a good place .i assumed wrongly of you.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Appologies. I am an ass who thinks he's funny.

With regard to:



Munchkin said:


> What I thought I'd do is 45 mins and alternate walking with running if on the treadmill as I'd like to build up my stamina.
> 
> Good
> 
> ...


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Pscarb > Excellent thank you, the food thing was always confusing to me because of my hours. I have nectar protein drink, fruity cocktail that is actually quite nice which I have every day just to top me up so I tend to mix that into a sm evian bottle and take on the train with me. Is it better to have plain nuts/seeds as opposed to salted or doesn't it matter?

I wish I could do cardio in the a.m. I definately noticed the difference in my performance with a Sat a.m. stint to an after work stint, felt amazingly more energetic.

What about ab work, should I do this everyday I work out? 3 sets of obliques each side and three sets of crunches?


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## myles (Sep 27, 2006)

Munchkin said:


> Hi Myles - I had a duodenal switch, basically my stomach is reduced in size and part is removed, it is not stapled. My intestines were then bypassed to a great degree and I only absorb 20-30% of fat and 50% of protein....
> 
> Does sound great doesn't it.....After my op we are told we could eat whatever we wanted once the protein was in and I'm a fat girl inside still, so I did just that, I considered a fish finger protein...it said protein on the packet :crazy:
> 
> ...


The only reason I ask is the inability to absorb fat is a symptom of Cystic Fibrosis, which I am a bit of an expert about. Keep taking the good advice and it will melt off you!


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Interesting...never knew that!



myles said:


> The only reason I ask is the inability to absorb fat is a symptom of Cystic Fibrosis!


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

gym rat said:


> maybe you should start a journal to keep track of your progress and assist you with motivation, all the best


I may well do that!


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

Best of luck with your training!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i would stay away from salted peanuts and go with plain nuts like almonds etc...have you ever tried muscle milk now there is a tasty drink 

i would do Abs after each weight session just dont use those stupid roller ab machines as they are crap...


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

So you can get an idea of where I've come from and to:


















​


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## genesis (Jul 4, 2006)

Thats Fantastic, well done and welcome to the Forum munchkin


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Thats a massive achievement well done.

With regards to members beleiving that someone is double posting, the mods know IMMEDIATLEY when someone uses a IP address for 2 users this is to prevent banned users reposting. So if one of us hasnt jumped on it quickly assume its someone else.


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## justdiscovering (May 10, 2007)

wow!!!!! incredible great accomplishment,look great.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Hi Julie. I offer you an apology firstly!

After the incident we had on this board with a similar person who joined vwithin 24 hrs of yourself, they posted up some garbage stories and were basically trolling on the forum creating an unpleasant atmosphere...i thought it was possible that your post was the same person but just creating a new name after they were banned...that is obviously not the case though.

So, i will be only too willing to help you devise a program for training and can assist you with your diet.

But i do think that after your op, the best person to get advice from would be from a dietician tbh, because whilst we can give you a healthy diet and one that would get you in great shape...it might not be suited to your body because of the surgery you had. So best to take any diet we can give you and double check with a dietician, this way you will be sure you wont harm yourself and can make great progress.

Firstly with regards to cardio. You dont necessarily need to run, infact you DONT need to run at all If you say youd rather do your cardio work in the am because you feel more energetic then this is PERFECT! In order for fat loss what i would do in your situation would be a simple 45 min brisk walk everyday about 30 mins after breakfast.

So wake up in the morning and for breakfast avoid the carbs totally. You can eat something like 4 egg whites and a yolk (ommellete) bit of olive oil and as paul said, some almonds. Have a large glass of water aswell. 30 mins later go on your brisk walk (just 45 mins at a steady pace) enjoy the scenery if its outside or if its at home on a treadmill (or you can do a brisk cycle on a bike at home infront of the tv).

Afterwards refrain from eating for 2 hr. Then have your second meal of the day, you will introduce some carbs here. Do you like oats? If not how about pasta? Or no need for carbs just yet, perhaps you want ma salad or some fruit...its all good, plenty of choice really...you decide. As long as you get your cardio done in the am and the first meal is a light meal consisting of predominantly protein and a small amount of healthy fats, if you keep a balanced diet during the day (you should have a further 4 small meals spread out during the day, that should keep hunger at bay aswell) then you will also be allowed to have a cheat day at the weekend, perhaps a friday or saturday night. A takeaway or restaraunt meal with some wine etc.

With regards to training would you like to lift weights in order to sculpt and define your body to take a particular shape you want? If this is the case, firstly you need to check with your doc if its ok at this stage to perform resistance exercise, once you are given the all clear then i would recomend that you perform 2 training sessions per week, do you think you can do that?

In one session you will be doing all the pulling exercises and in the other the pushing exercises, this way your whole body will be worked out once per week and week by week it will take up the shape that you want. I can go into more detail with a routine for you if you like, i'll write one out if it helps.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

ALSO... big congrats on your transformation already, you look like a totally different person!

Infact, write down exactly what you want to achieve, in what time you would like to achieve that look, what interests you have with regards to gym (ie do you like lifting weights, would you like to try lifting weights etc), your height and weight and maybe a few more details of the slight complication regarding the stomach op/bypass.

When i get in tonight i will spend some good time writing it out for you!


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Thats an amazing achievment Munchkin well done and keep up the good work.

I lost alot of weight myself when i first started training but your before and after pictures are better than mine.


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks Britbb,

Ok, I'm 5ft 3.5in and currently 10st 10lb. I'm a size 12 in clothes. Also bear in mind that my bones are denser and therefore a little heavier due to my previous obeseness and therefore I actually look smaller than the weight would dictate.

First aim and timeframe is just to lose some excess fat and tone up, probably 10lb by the time I go on holiday on 15 June which gives me 3 months and is do-able I feel.

Second aim is to lose a further 7lb and not really much more, I don't wish to be super slim, I like having curves but want them not to wobble! Size 10 would be great!

Overall aim. I really want to tone up and get some soft defintion. I dont' want to build big muscles but want to feel strong and have that definition in my body. Athletic look I guess you would say.

Areas of concern: my arms, where I've lost a lot of weight they are a bit flabby still and the skin is a little loose so I'd like to gain a bit of muscle to fill them out, my upper abdomen is still a little fatty and my thighs are still very pudgy, my thighs were massive pre-op and are my main area of concern as trousers often feel tight and I wouldn't dare wear a skirt above knee length. One thing I'd like to add is that my calfs are quite big, pure muscle though, can't grab a bit of fat (I assume from weight bearing when I was larger, walking around).

In the gym I love the cross trainer and treadmill, hate the stepper and bike, I have a bony bum! Quite happy to combine with time on the rower which I love and loathe in equal measure.

I have been a member of a gym before a year back and I used to lift weights quite frequently and have to say I enjoyed it very much, more so than the cardio, although I must say I much prefer the machines to free weights, I feel I can keep my posture and form better with the machines.

Thanks!

Julie


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, big diffrence.....

I would suggest that resistance training be your priority.

Nothing burns fat like resistance training.

Not only that but you will be firmer.

Do you have loose skin?

Some of that will go away over time but not all.

I had a friend have to do some tummy tuck surgery to get rid of the loose skin.

Have another friend that was 350 pounds now he is 175.


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Hey Scott,

Thanks for that.

I had a tummy tuck two years ago as I did have excess skin on my stomach. It got rid of most of it but I still have a little on the upper abs which they said they couldn't do anything about without doing a vertical scar so I said I'd just live with the skin!


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## JawD (Sep 15, 2004)

Hey Munchkin, welcome to the board. Just wanted to say a massive well done for the progress you've made. A load of good info to be had here to help you continue your journey.


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

Welcome Munchkin. Just outta curiosity do you activly see people treating you differenty from the time of your first pic to the way you are know?


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## simeon69 (Nov 15, 2007)

welcome to the board a massive transformation congratulations on that and i dont think i can add anything else has most have said it all...

but good luck with it and keep with it!!

cheers sim


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## Grim_Reaper (Feb 16, 2008)

One word

*WOW*


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

Wow Julie, incredable transformation!


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Julie, first things first, OMG, you look amazing. What a transformation! You know when people say ''you know what, she'd be really pretty if she lost some weight''. well you did, and you are.

I won't confuse the issue by offering any more diet advice, other than to say you would certainly benefit in the long term with some weight training to build a little muscle tissue & keep the bones dense. This will also help you burn more bodyfat as muscle is metabolically active at rest so as your muscle mass increases (not a lot, even 2-3 pounds or so) you will see a reduction in stored fat levels over time. The net loss on the scales may not be much, but your body composition will shift & you'll look lean & athletic, but not muscular.

In order to build the muscle you need to make allowances for the effect that the surgery has had on your ability to assimilate your food. I have never had a client who had a procedure like this, but I imagine if I did, I'd advise them to see a clinical dietician (even though I'm a qualified nutritional advisor) before we started increasing your macros to allow for the loss of absorption.

If you are ever in Manchester, feel free to pop into our new gym & me & John can give you some advice, although Paul S is quite an authority so you could do much worse than take his advice.


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

cellaratt said:


> Welcome Munchkin. Just outta curiosity do you activly see people treating you differenty from the time of your first pic to the way you are know?


Oh yes, most people didn't feel me worthy to speak to before and afterwards wanted to be my best mates and switch diet tips...suffice to say, I don't really speak with them anyone, I've got more respect for myself!


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## fozyspilgrims (Oct 22, 2007)

Welcome and good luck


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

And we have respect for you aswell. Keep your head up kiddo and enjoy your knew life, you've earned it.


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks Nine Pack, I feel very lucky to be healthy as I am now, albeit with certain considerations.

I'm really excited about this and so thankful for everyones advice. I'll post back and let you know how it goes!


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## Spartan301 (Jun 1, 2007)

Welcome Julie,

Congratulations on your transformation so far and good luck with continuing your journey


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Munchkin said:


> Thanks Britbb,
> 
> Ok, I'm 5ft 3.5in and currently 10st 10lb. I'm a size 12 in clothes. Also bear in mind that my bones are denser and therefore a little heavier due to my previous obeseness and therefore I actually look smaller than the weight would dictate.
> 
> ...


Ok, sorry for the delay, just had a look at this.

Its a bit trickier trying to write out a nutrition plan for you because of the different absorption percentages. However obviously what you are doing right now is working as youve managed to lose so much fat!

Can you post up a typical days diet that you eat and then i will alter it so it can suit you better to achieve your goals.

As for training though, why dont you use a mixture of weights and cardio, this will be best for you...firstly its gonna get rid of the wobbly bits, help you firm up the areas that you want firmer. Itll make you stronger and will also help increase your metablism further.

So what id recommend, start off simple.

Upon waking have a tea/coffee (no sugar), go for a 30 min brisk walk outside (can be anything from just taking the dog for a walk or a stroll outside in fresh air), nothing too strenuous, just a fast walking pace.

When you get in, get washed, ready for work etc (whatever you need to do in morning) and have breakfast for breakfast try to have an ommellette and a piece of fresh fruit or some fresh veg. Have 4 egg whites and 2 yolks, you can have it scarmbled if you like aswell, you can chop up a tomato and have it with the scrambled eggs if you like (as your fresh veg source) or have an apple instead. Try to avoid any other carbs in this meal.

Next meal, eat this around 2-3 hours later. Have some carbs in this, so something like 50g wheat pasta with a fresh tomato sauce and half a can of tuna, you can have a small amount of low fat cheese on top aswell.

3 hours after this, have another meal, make sure you include protein, fats and carbs, so this meal could be a tin of sardines or mackeral on 2 slices of wholemeal toast, if you like sardines. If you dont like sardines how about a chicken breast chopped up and mixed with a small amount of low fat mayo and spread on 2 slices wholemeal toast with some tomato or sweetcorn?

Wait 2 hours and then go to the gym (refere to training below this)

After gym, you can have a small protein shake which id recomend particularly because your body wont absorb as much of the protein during the day as it would normally, your body will need this to recover from the exercise and build back the muscle fibres that youve worn down so that as you repeat this with many workouts you will get that more shapely and firmer look. Id recomend just have 5g glutamine, 20g whey protein (just 1 scoop) and 30g dextrose or a large fresh piece of fruit (thats the better option for you).

On non training days you shouldnt have this shake though, only after you train.

When you get home its time for dinner, have whatever you would normally have, try to eat sensibly though.

This gives you the chance later on in the night to have a snack, if you want a snack, avoid carb sources like crisps, bread, chocolates or anything like that...remember your eating healthy now, its the completely new version of you! And your gonna take the last step to really obtain the body shape that you want to obtain and deserve to from tha hard work.

So what i normally do is just have some cucumber or tomatos, or some salad, iceberg lettuce is nice, its easy to snack on if im not meant to be eating and hardly has any calories...so if im gonna cheat on my diet then i'll just have some cucumber or iceberg lettuce.

So, cardio is in the morning (like you wanted) and after you wake up and have a tea or coffee you go for a 30 min brisk walk outside.

Thats the first part of training done.

Heres the second part, the resistance exercises.

You can do worouts on monday, wednesday and friday. So:

Monday: Chest/shoulders/triceps, always take 2 minutes rest between each set.

2 sets press ups, 12 reps

3 sets machine chest press, 12 reps

2 sets machine shoulder press, 12 reps

2 sets side lateral raise, 12 reps

3 sets cable press downs, 12 reps

3 sets single arm seated tricep extension, 12 reps each arm

Wednesday: Back/biceps/abs, 2 minutes rest between each set but 3 minutes rest between each set of abs.

2 sets lat pulldowns wide overhand grip, 12 reps

2 sets lat pulldowns narrow reverse grip, 12 reps

3 sets machine rows, 12 reps

3 sets alternate dumbell bicep curls, 12 reps

2 sets cable curls, 12 reps

3 sets lying abdominal crunches (can do them with a swiss ball if you like aswell but i prefere not to), 15 reps

Friday: Quads/Hamstrings/abs, 2 minutes rest between each set except 3 minutes rest between abs.

3 sets of squats, 15 reps (do you know how to do squats? Make sure to get an experienced trainer or one of the insructors to show you how to do squats properly, but make sure that the instructor/pt actually looks like they train and know what they are talking about otherwise they will just give you the wrong advice and you can end up hurt, too many qualified instructors and pt's will show you the wrong way because they dont have a clue what they are talking about).

If you feel uncomfortable with the squats and dont feel that the pt/instructors are giving you the correct advice (be very careful of them), them just do 3 sets on the leg press, 15 reps.

After squats/leg press:

3 sets leg extension, 15 reps

2 sets hip adductor machine, 15 reps

3 sets hamstring curls, 15 reps

3 sets lying abdominal crunches (with swiss ball if you like), 15 reps

Hope that helps.

Let me know if you cant do the cardio in the morning because it can be arranged to do it when you are at the gym instead. But the most effecetive time for the cardio is to do it in the morning when you wake.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

*survival of the fattest* from book called survival of the fittest by mike stroud-a great read.

"a propensity to get fat reflects a biology out of step with our lifestyle."

"unlike complex carbohydrates,such as starch, which would have been important components of our diet for millions of years,simple sugarsare in relatively short supply in natural habitats.Our sweet tooth an evolutionarydevelopment,helped us identify ripe fruits-did not lead us into trouble until refiend sugar became widely available.

it is a sad fact that once you are too fat,your body does its level best to keep it that way.a single small chocolate bar can fuel a run of many miles-following strenuous exercise the basal metabolic rate remains elevated for several hoursallowing considerably more calories to be burnt post exercise.

"walking for just twenty minutes each day should yield reductions of weight of two to four kilogrammes over three or four months,and many people could achieve that in their daily working life and save time."

despite eating 6000 cals a day-they lost 55lbs when walking to the north pole,dragging sledges etc, so shows activity is the key to weight loss,more so than food intake,so if you continue to change your habits and make exercise an integral part of your life you will lose/keep weight off,especially if combined with sensible dietary changes.

a lot of guys on this site, myself included but especially the competitive people, view food as fuel first and foremeost,and eat what is required for goals aspired to-i.e bulking up/cutting up. personally if i have too much to eat one day or too many beers i will deliberately walk further/longer next day or two and eat a bit less.

well done with the transformation,get in to physique training and the diet/lifetsyle will become integral to all that. my mates wife was 14stand wee kids used to shout fatty after her two kids were born. she now has won the european miss physique title from muscle and fitness magazine,and competes for national titles(works as aerobic instructor now) so theres a real example of life changing.but all this need---*discipline*,there is no substitute for it,nobody else contols your eating/exercise *only you*so all the best with your goals


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Britbb, Sorry I hadn't had a chance to reply and say thank you but I took your advice and have been following it to the letter for the past few weeks and have lost 6lb so far, it has just melted off and I am loving the weight training, it gives me such a buzz! I really enjoy the diet too, never bloated, don't feel "yuck" anymore....feels like the start of a new me!

Thanks so much for your time!

J


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## Munchkin (Mar 6, 2008)

Big Shout Out to PScarbs also as his diet has done the trick and then some! Thank you so much mate, you are a star!!

Jules


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

no problem Jules my pleasure...


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Munchkin said:


> Britbb, Sorry I hadn't had a chance to reply and say thank you but I took your advice and have been following it to the letter for the past few weeks and have lost 6lb so far, it has just melted off and I am loving the weight training, it gives me such a buzz! I really enjoy the diet too, never bloated, don't feel "yuck" anymore....feels like the start of a new me!
> 
> Thanks so much for your time!
> 
> J


Glad to hear it!!! 

Stick with it for 12 weeks and see your progress. I dont think it will take long before you get the look that you want. Id say that within 4 months you should be virtually there.

6 months time and youll probably have that look you were after...but youll prob also have been bitten by the bug lol and want to keep going to the gym more and more


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

and remember carbs /protein =4 cals per gramme

fat =9 cals per gramme

*alcohol*=7

so keep off the wine (as i try to tell the mrs!) and this will help big time-most folk i know who want to lose a bit could do it by just abstaining for a while(like me)


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