# Gyno advice - Dbol



## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

Just a quick question mainly as a precaution because I guess as with most people gyno is a worrying side effect and I would rather be safe than sorry!

(If needed my stats are 24yrs old, 230lbs (not weighed myself since I started Dbol so this was a natural weight) at around 15/17% BF.)

I am on my 4th day of a Dbol only cycle (my first one), I am taking 30mg ED for 6 weeks followed by PCT of Nolva and Clomid. I am splitting the dose in 7hour intervals at 10mg to keep levels as stable as I can, eating 8 clean meals a day and so on - basically I have done my research and I am not jumping into this.

Anywho I have noticed this morning that my right nipple is a little sensitive, certainly if I press on the lower chest area that side its a bit sore whereas the other side isn't. If I raise my arm and feel around I can't seem to feel any lumps and it all looks ok, I am wondering if its due to the fact that I am still a bit tender from training chest but I wanted to make sure I have checked correctly.

I have read many threads and posts on Gyno but to be honest I still find it hard to fathom how to tell if you have it, from what I have read its mainly the formation of lumps..but having not fondled my chest before its hard to tell :lol: , my main worry is if I do I want to deal with it asap.. instead of diagnosing it late and having tissue form which requires surgery to deal with.

So finally onto the question.. What I am asking is what is the best way to check? and how probable is it this soon into a cycle? Also am I right in thinking the best thing to do is take Nolva at 20mg each morning till symptoms subside?

I have read about other pills to take such as Letro but it seems incredibly expensive..and most don't seem to use it?

Any advice would be appreciated, I am probably being paranoid but I would rather know I am going about it the right way!

Cheers everyone :beer:


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## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

NickC said:


> Just a quick question mainly as a precaution because I guess as with most people gyno is a worrying side effect and I would rather be safe than sorry!
> 
> (If needed my stats are 24yrs old, 230lbs (not weighed myself since I started Dbol so this was a natural weight) at around 15/17% BF.)
> 
> ...


Its going to change your hormones, so thatl cause the itchy nips, I got off a none converting designer steroid, it went after 3-4 days. Im not sure though because its dbol maybe run nolva for a week at 20mg like you said anyone? Is it your first dbol cycle?


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

I have heard about the hormone changing causing itchy nips, but then a lot of people say its the first sign on gyno... darn paranoia!

Yes it is my first cycle mate


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## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

NickC said:


> I have heard about the hormone changing causing itchy nips, but then a lot of people say its the first sign on gyno... darn paranoia!
> 
> Yes it is my first cycle mate


Thats the problem isnt it, you can either think i'll ride it out or start the nolva, im no expert someone like mars, lois, will be more help. Have you noticed anything other than that from the dbol yet, im running same cycle next.


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## bassmonster (Aug 29, 2009)

itchy nips can be a sign of gyno....if you have nolva at hand, pop in 20mg every other day until symptoms subside for a week. if still no joy, up it to every day.

an AI (aromatise inhibitor) like aromsin may also be taken to manage eostrogen levels.


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

ollie321 said:


> Thats the problem isnt it, you can either think i'll ride it out or start the nolva, im no expert someone like mars, lois, will be more help. Have you noticed anything other than that from the dbol yet, im running same cycle next.


Yeah its a tricky one, obv I don't want to take Nolva for no reason as its more chemicals in my body and more money!

I have noticed good strength gains already, and I pump up a lot more when working out ie more prominent veins and bulging muscle pumps. :thumb:



bassmonster said:


> itchy nips can be a sign of gyno....if you have nolva at hand, pop in 20mg every other day until symptoms subside for a week. if still no joy, up it to every day.
> 
> an AI (aromatise inhibitor) like aromsin may also be taken to manage eostrogen levels.


The itcyness seems to have subsided for now, seemed to be noticeable this morning (first time I have noticed it) but I do have really erect nipples at the moment lol...doesn't help that my work uniform is a little tight around my chest anyways and its quite rough material so its prob making it worse, but yeah I look like erect nipple guy at work today :lol: :cursing:

No idea what that means tho!


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## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

im 2 and a half weeks in a dbol run.at just under 2 weeks got nipple flair up,itchy ,puffy and a bit sore,,taking nolva 20mg a day,,totally cleared it up..take them if needed,its worth it


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

Is Nolva really all thats needed? I keep reading more and more threads (prob shouldn't as its just confusing matters lol) and some people are saying Nolva's great, then Nolva's useless and use Letro or Armidex?

Only problem I see is that unitedpharmacies don't sell a few of the items mentioned, and the ones they do sell are going to cost more than the entire cycle + pct put together! :cursing:


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## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

get you nolva from your source,take it,done


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

I already have Nolva just incase, but obviously wanna make sure I need it before taking..and I wanna make sure it will actually be enough!

Nips are getting quite sore and sensitive now, and really erect which is quite odd...no lumps yet tho.


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## benji00 (Sep 24, 2008)

I personally find letro too harsh, killed my libido too, so adex or aromasin is the best bet in my opinion although nolva usually does the job but i have to run it at 40mg per day to get it to subside, best off with an ai to be honest


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## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

NickC said:


> I already have Nolva just incase, but obviously wanna make sure I need it before taking..and I wanna make sure it will actually be enough!
> 
> Nips are getting quite sore and sensitive now, and really erect which is quite odd...no lumps yet tho.


I got same thing off my cynostane and 1-t tren went after 3-4 days, like I said depends if you wana take the risk, I know its hard not to think about it, but that makes it worse


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## lockandload (May 5, 2010)

Mate.... I would be jumping on the nolv immediately... itchyness and sensitivity are the first signs of gyno, I KNOW, don't wait until it's too late... dbol is notorious for this

To be completely honest, a dbol only cycle is pointless... haven't you researched into this enough? You will be gain strength, put on water weight, and lose pretty much all of it when you come off. Why are you doing this cycle? There are more negatives than positives. Are you taking anything to combat the 17-aa? Have you had a LFT? Are you going to have a LFT?


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

ollie321 said:


> I got same thing off my cynostane and 1-t tren went after 3-4 days, like I said depends if you wana take the risk, I know its hard not to think about it, but that makes it worse


So you left it and it went? I have to admit I am paranoid about it now, I keep trying to convince myself its ok cause I have no lumps but its happened so fast i'm worried about waking up with titties :lol:



lockandload said:


> Mate.... I would be jumping on the nolv immediately... itchyness and sensitivity are the first signs of gyno, I KNOW, don't wait until it's too late... dbol is notorious for this
> 
> To be completely honest, a dbol only cycle is pointless... haven't you researched into this enough? You will be gain strength, put on water weight, and lose pretty much all of it when you come off. Why are you doing this cycle? There are more negatives than positives. Are you taking anything to combat the 17-aa? Have you had a LFT? Are you going to have a LFT?


I have done months of research so although I appreciate your advice can we not turn the thread into this, I am asking for gyno advice not cycle advice. And yes I am taking Milk Thistle, ALA, fish oils, vit c and all sorts mate, and I have plenty of friends who have had great gains with little lost on Dbol only.

Its a first cycle hence dbol only, plus its easily out of the system should I experience any issues - injectables are in there a lot longer. My next cycle will be test once the dbol is gone.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

lockandload said:


> Mate.... I would be jumping on the nolv immediately... itchyness and sensitivity are the first signs of gyno, I KNOW, don't wait until it's too late... dbol is notorious for this
> 
> *To be completely honest, a dbol only cycle is pointless*... haven't you researched into this enough? You will be gain strength, put on water weight, and lose pretty much all of it when you come off. Why are you doing this cycle? There are more negatives than positives. Are you taking anything to combat the 17-aa? Have you had a LFT? Are you going to have a LFT?


This statement is total bollocks. You should also stop trying to scare him with talk of LFTs. A 6 week dbol cycle isn't going to do his liver any harm.

OP, nolva will stop gyno. I would suggest reading the gyno sticky, but basically you can use either a SERM such as nolva which occupies the estrogen receptor therefore preventing estrogen doing so, or you can use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) which restricts the formation of estrogen. The latter is a better option for various reasons so if you can get one - aromasin or arimidex then I would do so - your source may have them and they're not that expensive really. Letro is best kept for reversing gyno if it gets to that stage.


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## Scottydog81 (Mar 1, 2010)

benji00 said:


> I personally find letro too harsh, killed my libido too, so adex or aromasin is the best bet in my opinion although nolva usually does the job but i have to run it at 40mg per day to get it to subside, best off with an ai to be honest


 BENJI.......when you take nolva @ 40mgs ED do you take it in one dose or split it mate ?


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## The Oak 2009 (Sep 14, 2009)

ba baracuss said:


> This statement is total bollocks. You should also stop trying to scare him with talk of LFTs. A 6 week dbol cycle isn't going to do his liver any harm.
> 
> OP, nolva will stop gyno. I would suggest reading the gyno sticky, but basically you can use either a SERM such as nolva which occupies the estrogen receptor therefore preventing estrogen doing so, or you can use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) which restricts the formation of estrogen. The latter is a better option for various reasons so if you can get one - aromasin or arimidex then I would do so - your source may have them and they're not that expensive really. Letro is best kept for reversing gyno if it gets to that stage.


x2. If you have nolva just start taking it. If you think you genuinly are developing gyno take 40mg a day for 4-5 days until it goes away, then drop it to 20mg ED or EOD for the remainder of the cycle.


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## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

dan 100 said:


> get you nolva from your source,take it,done


and to quote my self.......get your nolva from your source,take it.done


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

The Oak 2009 said:


> x2. If you have nolva just start taking it. If you think you genuinly are developing gyno take 40mg a day for 4-5 days until it goes away, then drop it to 20mg ED or EOD for the remainder of the cycle.


Cheers for the advice mate, will pick it up from home later and take it. Would you suggest 20mg morning/evening or just 40mg in one hit?

Cheers :beer:



ba baracuss said:


> This statement is total bollocks. You should also stop trying to scare him with talk of LFTs. A 6 week dbol cycle isn't going to do his liver any harm.
> 
> OP, nolva will stop gyno. I would suggest reading the gyno sticky, but basically you can use either a SERM such as nolva which occupies the estrogen receptor therefore preventing estrogen doing so, or you can use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) which restricts the formation of estrogen. The latter is a better option for various reasons so if you can get one - aromasin or arimidex then I would do so - your source may have them and they're not that expensive really. Letro is best kept for reversing gyno if it gets to that stage.


Thanks for clarifying that for me mate  , do you know how long it takes for Nolva to work? Just so I know roughly what to expect so if it doesn't work I can get hold of an AI.

Thanks guys :thumb:


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Do as Dan and some others have said, start nolva at 20mg ED, this is all you need, take for 7 days and reassess, no need for an AI on dbol only cycles.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

NickC said:


> Thanks for clarifying that for me mate  , do you know how long it takes for Nolva to work? Just so I know roughly what to expect so if it doesn't work I can get hold of an AI.
> 
> Thanks guys :thumb:


A few days. It will work though, but as I said, an AI is much better so get one if you can.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

As i said, *don't* use an AI on dbol only cycles, nolva is all you need.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

mars1960 said:


> As i said, *don't* use an AI on dbol only cycles, nolva is all you need.


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## benji00 (Sep 24, 2008)

Scottydog81 said:


> BENJI.......when you take nolva @ 40mgs ED do you take it in one dose or split it mate ?


i split it 20mg first thing in the morning and 20mg last thing at night, i don't think it matters too much though, i find its during the night and when i get outta bed that the puffyness is at its worst so taking it at night is best for me (psychologically anyway lol)


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## lockandload (May 5, 2010)

ba baracuss said:


> This statement is total bollocks. You should also stop trying to scare him with talk of LFTs. A 6 week dbol cycle isn't going to do his liver any harm.
> 
> OP, nolva will stop gyno. I would suggest reading the gyno sticky, but basically you can use either a SERM such as nolva which occupies the estrogen receptor therefore preventing estrogen doing so, or you can use an aromatase inhibitor (AI) which restricts the formation of estrogen. The latter is a better option for various reasons so if you can get one - aromasin or arimidex then I would do so - your source may have them and they're not that expensive really. Letro is best kept for reversing gyno if it gets to that stage.


Maybe his liver is different to mine? After all, I'm a human and he is....?

I did 4 weeks of dbol, thai pinkies, 25mg ed.... LFT came back raised as a [email protected] two months later even with plenty of milk thistle and cranberry juice. No alcohol problems here.

Doesn't sound like bollocks to me.


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

mars1960 said:


> Do as Dan and some others have said, start nolva at 20mg ED, this is all you need, take for 7 days and reassess, no need for an AI on dbol only cycles.


Cheers mate, is 20mg enough then or would you recommend 40mg if its quite bad? I would prefer less obviously. 



benji00 said:


> i split it 20mg first thing in the morning and 20mg last thing at night, i don't think it matters too much though, i find its during the night and when i get outta bed that the puffyness is at its worst so taking it at night is best for me (psychologically anyway lol)


lol I know what you mean psychologically! Ok mate if I go for 40mg I will do that, i've always been one to use less of something if I can so may try 20mg first and see how I get on.

Cheers everyone for your input btw :beer:


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

NickC said:


> Cheers mate, is 20mg enough then or would you recommend 40mg if its quite bad? I would prefer less obviously.
> 
> lol I know what you mean psychologically! Ok mate if I go for 40mg I will do that, i've always been one to use less of something if I can so may try 20mg first and see how I get on.
> 
> Cheers everyone for your input btw :beer:


Just start on 20mg for 7 days and see how you are after that - one step at a time.


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

Will do mate, I will let everyone know how I get on with it!

Cheers.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Dagman72 said:


> Just start on 20mg for 7 days and see how you are after that - one step at a time.


Exactly.

You only need 20mg, iv'e done this ptotocol with hundreds of ppl mate.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

PS, for the benefit of others an AI will reduce your gains so much you might as well have used tbol.

Dbol is largely non AR mediated and doesn't aromatise through the same mechanism of action that test does.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

lockandload said:


> Maybe his liver is different to mine? After all, I'm a human and he is....?
> 
> I did 4 weeks of dbol, thai pinkies, 25mg ed.... LFT came back raised as a [email protected] two months later even with plenty of milk thistle and cranberry juice. No alcohol problems here.
> 
> Doesn't sound like bollocks to me.


Why did you take milk thistle? That's going to make your liver work harder on top of the dbol you're taking.


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## lockandload (May 5, 2010)

ba baracuss said:


> Why did you take milk thistle? That's going to make your liver work harder on top of the dbol you're taking.


Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_thistle

*Milk thistle has been reported to have protective effects on the **liver** and to greatly improve its function. It is typically used to treat **liver cirrhosis**, chronic **hepatitis** (liver inflammation), toxin-induced liver damage (including the prevention of severe liver damage from **Amanita phalloides** (death cap) mushroom poisoning), and **gallbladder** disorders.*

Taken from http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/milk-thistle-000266.htm

*
Milk thistle (**Silybum marianum**) has been used for 2,000 years as an herbal remedy for a variety of ailments, particularly liver and gall bladder problems. Several scientific studies suggest that substances in milk thistle (especially a flavonoid called silymarin) protect the liver from toxins*

Taken from http://www.blackmores.com.au/products/milk-thistle

*Milk thistle supports normal liver function and has a protective effect on cell membranes due to its strong antioxidant and free radical scavenging action. This action appears to be largely due to the action of the active constituents in milk thistle which are a complex of flavanolignans collectively called silymarin. *

When your throwing 17-aa down your mouth into your liver, any natural herb that supports liver repair is well worth a shot.


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## bassmonster (Aug 29, 2009)

mars1960 said:


> Dbol is largely non AR mediated and doesn't aromatise through the same mechanism of action that test does.


What's the difference? i would have thought aromatisation occurs through dbol and test the same way? what is the different outcome?


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

mars1960 said:


> *PS, for the benefit of others an AI will reduce your gains so much you might as well have used tbol.*
> 
> Dbol is largely non AR mediated and doesn't aromatise through the same mechanism of action that test does.


Can you explain this bit please mate?



lockandload said:


> When your throwing 17-aa down your mouth into your liver, any natural herb that supports liver repair is well worth a shot.


After the cycle maybe, but during the cycle all you're doing is making it work harder by processing more stuff. The liver is excellent at self repairing anyway.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

lockandload said:


> Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_thistle
> 
> *Milk thistle has been reported to have protective effects on the **liver** and to greatly improve its function. It is typically used to treat **liver cirrhosis**, chronic **hepatitis** (liver inflammation), toxin-induced liver damage (including the prevention of severe liver damage from **Amanita phalloides** (death cap) mushroom poisoning), and **gallbladder** disorders.*
> 
> ...


 :lol: . at the risk of repeating myself, milk thistles is of no benefit to* AAS user* and thats from a professional medical liver consultant whom i had the pleasure of quizzing everday for weeks.


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## lockandload (May 5, 2010)

So milk thistle left my values up for over two months?


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## bassmonster (Aug 29, 2009)

ba baracuss said:


> Can you explain this bit please mate?


I think he means that tbol gives you less gains than if dbol but taking dbol an AI alongside it will give similar results as tbol..


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

mars1960 said:


> PS, for the benefit of others an AI will reduce your gains so much you might as well have used tbol.
> 
> Dbol is largely non AR mediated and doesn't aromatise through the same mechanism of action that test does.


Cheers for clarifying that mate, you really seem to know your stuff thanks again :thumb:


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

bassmonster said:


> I think he means that tbol gives you less gains than if dbol but taking dbol an AI alongside it will give similar results as tbol..


Yeah I gathered that much but I wanted to know why he thinks so.


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

Just a quick update I took 20mg of Nolva yesterday after work and started my daily morning dose this morning, nips are still sensitive but they are no were near as bad as yesterday and they are not erect!

I will keep an eye on it but for now so far so good, cheers again everyone.


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## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

NickC said:


> Just a quick update I took 20mg of Nolva yesterday after work and started my daily morning dose this morning, nips are still sensitive but they are no were near as bad as yesterday and they are not erect!
> 
> I will keep an eye on it but for now so far so good, cheers again everyone.


Good luck, lets hope thats that then. :thumb:


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

lockandload said:


> To be completely honest, a dbol only cycle is pointless... haven't you researched into this enough? You will be gain strength, put on water weight, and lose pretty much all of it when you come off. Why are you doing this cycle?


I'd disagree strongly with that. From experience i gained well and kept 70% of the gains on my dbol only cycle and i've considerably upped the weight on many lifts and sustained them.

It may not have worked for you but it's worked for tons of others.


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## NickC (Apr 6, 2010)

Just a quick update all seems a lot better now, still got slightly sensitive nipples but i'm guessing thats normal? Or should it subside within a few days?

Can't wait to get training next week as I have already noticed good strength gains, just fingers crossed I don't get anymore itchyness :lol:


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## lucask99 (May 21, 2011)

NickC said:


> Just a quick update all seems a lot better now, still got slightly sensitive nipples but i'm guessing thats normal? Or should it subside within a few days?
> 
> Can't wait to get training next week as I have already noticed good strength gains, just fingers crossed I don't get anymore itchyness :lol:


any news?


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