# Best and Safest Drug For Ladies??



## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

*What Is the Best & Safest Drug For Ladies?*​
Deca159.62%Anavar10164.74%Equipoise63.85%Winny117.05%Clenbuterol2314.74%


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

Just wondering what all you lot think is the best drug for best gains, and the safest etc for women??


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Def anavar!


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

the_gre8t_1ne said:


> Def anavar!


I have to agree with you on this one.


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## Stu (Jan 22, 2005)

all of them are 'safe' if used correctly, if you were looking for something that would give you good gains with low sides then i think deca would be good.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

i agree that all would be safe if taken correctly, but anavar is realy hard to go wrong with, as even if taken in high doses, the effects are not bad like some other AAS compunds


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Anavar,winstrol tabs,and fast acting durabolin way better than deca for women.

Also some women can get away with very tiny amounts of prop for very short periods of time...

And many moons ago there was a drug about called maxibolin that women used to use because it was highly anabolic..

You could also use primobolan orals to good effect..


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

Stu said:


> all of them are 'safe' if used correctly, if you were looking for something that would give you good gains with low sides then i think deca would be good.


correct, and as OSC said even better if it's fast acting deca.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

For informational purposes only..here a few cycles I`ve just pulled an old steroid manual I have....

Anavar(2.5mg per 20lbs bodyweight per day)

Durabolin 25-50mg weekly

Anavar(as above for 6 days)

Anadrol 25mg every 7th day

Durabolin 50mg every 2 weeks

Propionate 25mg every 2 weeks

Nolvadex 10mg daily

Primobolan tabs 50-100mg daily

Anavar 2-4 tabs daily

winny shot weekly


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Actually women do produce testosterone at about 1/10th the amount of us.

It is perscribed in sublingual and cream form (UpJohn).

If the woman is low in test she can take it and get a scrip and actually using this approach for HRT then this is the safest and best approach.

I have several friends on test cream and they like the way they feel but it does give them more sex drive (oh yah).

Having low test levels in men and women result in the heart kindof getting weak (the heart in men cant say about women have the most androgen receptors), low HDL levels and blood sugars being off some.

Other than that Id say anavar.

But test is the most natural and if abused is not too good.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

I know girls that have used tiny amounts of test prop with great success mate, but we're talking such small amounts they need to use slin pins to get the measurements correct. like 5-10mg EOD.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Biker said:


> I know girls that have used tiny amounts of test prop with great success mate, but we're talking such small amounts they need to use slin pins to get the measurements correct. like 5-10mg EOD.


Safest steroid for women is test as they need it and we need it too.

Too low and you will get a jacked up lipid profile.

Test also aids in blood sugar too.

It is necessary and they do perscribe it for women during menapause and in men for andropause.


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## Bigdav (May 24, 2005)

NONE!!!! Your perfect the way you are


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

I disagree, I have the ladies I advise use equipoise. The only deca I think they should use is phenyl-prop, and I don't think winstrol is a good choice for long periods due to DHT conversion. Anavar is ok, and primo in the correct amounts.

Pre comp I have them use eq until 2 weeks out, proviron, nolv, arimidex, wins (last 10 days) anavar last 2 weeks. We've had good success with this and nobody has reported any real sides.


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## meera (Feb 13, 2006)

I have experience of Andriol testocaps, Deca Durabolin and Anavar.

I had no gains whatsoever from Andriol and no sides good or bad.

With Deca Durabolin I got beautiful gains! However, my voice deepened, my facial hair grew faster and I had mild acne on my upper back and chest. I also began losing hair one month after the end of the cycle and had to go on homeopathic medicines to relieve this. The best thing apart from the physical growth was the sexual drive.

With Anavar, I didn't get big but I got harder and firmer. It's a good female steroid at a dose of 30mg daily. Recently I have upped the dose to 40mg daily and I am again finding mild hair loss. I have dropped the dose again today.


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## riddles (Mar 30, 2006)

Well your pole didn't have anuther grate and thats Primo. As for Deca well how much of the gaines you'll keep will be low.


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## Venetia (Jun 26, 2006)

Meera 40mg is way too much, should max it out at 25mg. Will not notice any more gains overdoing it. Be careful.

Otherwise def agree with anavar bein good. But can cause alot of water retention. Otherwise deca good in mild doses.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have done a fair bit of reading on this subject lately as i have helped a few female Bodybuilders with diets and cycles, what i found was that the 3 main AAS being used where..

Anavar

Primo

NPP(fast acting deca)

but to be honest all Gear can be used but the dose has to be correct for less sides...


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

EXTREME said:


> I don't think winstrol is a good choice for long periods due to DHT conversion. .


can you elaborate?

as far as i know stanozolol is not affected by 5 alpha reductase??


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

It's pretty simple, nandrolones have the best ratio of side effects to muscle building becasue of conversion to a weaker androgen in most tissues via 5 alpha reductase.

Ananvar is just weak, so side effects are low on a mg for mg basis, but not relative to the anabolic effect.

for most women the dosage requred to take you beyond your natural limmits of muscularity will be enough to cause some degree of side effects.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Bigdav said:


> NONE!!!! Your perfect the way you are


Yes where is the NONE option?

I am seriously opposed to steroid use for young men and women.

AND unless the woman is planning on competing in BBing (also meaning that she has the potential to do really well) a bit of an unecessary riskll IMHO

x

x

x

T


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

Tatyana, the vast majorty of women dont seriously want 'size' they just want firmer leaner bodies, but a few women, such as myself admire and aspire to muscular physiques...beyond a level that is naturally attainable...but have no desire whatso ever to competete.

Why is it an unnecesary risk for me to use steroids to get what I want?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

medusa said:


> can you elaborate?
> 
> as far as i know stanozolol is not affected by 5 alpha reductase??


As for everything that I have read it is a DHT dirivitive.

Author L Ria suggests it is the worst for hair loss, that would make sense if it was a DHT dirivitive.

I think virilization would be a problem with women with this drug on any larger dose.


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

hackskii said:


> As for everything that I have read it is a DHT dirivitive.
> 
> Author L Ria suggests it is the worst for hair loss, that would make sense if it was a DHT dirivitive.


The 'logic' appears to go like this, DHT is a factor in hair loss, therefore DHT causes hair loss, therefore a steroid which is derived from DHT will cause more hair loss.

All steroids are ultimately derivatives of test, 2 different anabolic steroids may have similar molecular structure but different properties.

Test converts to DHT in most tissues except muscle tissue, so if you take test the androgens in your scalp are stronger than those in your muscles = more hair loss relative to muscle gain

When it comes to side effects for women it's not so much the potency of a particular drug (if something is potent you need a smaller does, if it's weak you'll have to take more of it) which is an issue it's whether it will convert to a stronger or weaker androgen in different tissues.

as far as I'm aware stanozolol does not.


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

hackskii said:


> I think virilization would be a problem with women with this drug on any larger dose.


ALL anabolic steroids will cause verilization full stop


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

That's funny; I thought that the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme converted testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT)?

DHT is necessary for the development of male genitalia in utero.

DHT is something like 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.

To my knowledge it competes with the androgen receptors.

Also opposes estrogen and progesterone.

Why wouldn't DHT have more virilization properties than testosterone if it is actually more androgenic than testosterone and opposes estrogen and progesterone?

I have heard from Swale DHT is very suppressive to the HPTA.


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

hackskii said:


> That's funny; I thought that the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme converted testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT)?
> 
> DHT is necessary for the development of male genitalia in utero.
> 
> ...


all that is correct as far as I know, I didnt claim otherwise, I just said that stanozlol is not converted into DHT by 5-alpha reductase...perhaps you've misunderstood something?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

medusa said:


> all that is correct as far as I know, I didnt claim otherwise, I just said that stanozlol is not converted into DHT by 5-alpha reductase...perhaps you've misunderstood something?


Yes I did read what you wrote and I am suggesting that DHT is an issue with virilization. Probably even more so than other gear.

When you said "ALL anabolic steroids will cause verilization full stop"

This gave the impression that all steroids are created equal in the verilization issue and this I dont agree with.

In puberty DHT plays a role in deepening of the male's voice, pubic hair, facial hair and makes the balls drop.

I do think that DHT dirivitive gear should be avoided with women.

Just my personal opinion and maybe someone can correct me.

DHT opposes progesterone and estrogen.

Just in my opinion there are safer gears for women than DHT dirivitive gears.

Thats all I wasnt correcting you as you are right but I felt the need to shed some light on the issue that is all.


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## medusa (Oct 20, 2006)

OK, i didnt mean that all steroids are verilizing to the same degree, just that all steroids will cause verilization to some degree.

But the ratio of veriliziation to anabolic effect is important when considering AS use for women.

DHT is a very potent androgen and therefore is strongly verilizing, and yes it has a role to play in the developement of the fetus and in secondry sexual characteristics @ puberty.

The fact that stanozolol is derived from DHT is not significant, they have very different properties, most importantly stanozolol is not converted into a stronger androgen in the skin and scalp etc.


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## happy haggis (Mar 5, 2005)

i juggle different courses but i find the best one for me is a combo of deca, equ and winny for 6 weeks then last 2 weeks on prop.

tatyanna, again you are bashing on about folk not using AAS. i think youve worn that record out, AAS is a major part of this sport and to continually go on about its health implications is getting boring. if used correctly they are safe and we are all consenting adults so its our choice.

every board i see you posting on, youve had to preach about the use of gear for women. give it a rest.


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## rottweiler (Jul 9, 2007)

Due to Anavars low androgenic rating of 24 (i think that is right) I would say that this should be the safest for women. Equipoise might be slightly too risky for those sensitive to virilization symptoms, and the old riddles is right, what about primo, that should be safer than deca virilization wise, it is an EXTREMELY mild steroid.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

happy haggis said:


> tatyanna, again you are bashing on about folk not using AAS. i think youve worn that record out, AAS is a major part of this sport and to continually go on about its health implications is getting boring. if used correctly they are safe and we are all consenting adults so its our choice.
> 
> every board i see you posting on, youve had to preach about the use of gear for women. give it a rest.


Dont think there will be anymore of that as she appears to be banned!!!


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## rottweiler (Jul 9, 2007)

happy haggis said:


> i juggle different courses but i find the best one for me is a combo of deca, equ and winny for 6 weeks then last 2 weeks on prop.
> 
> tatyanna, again you are bashing on about folk not using AAS. i think youve worn that record out, AAS is a major part of this sport and to continually go on about its health implications is getting boring. if used correctly they are safe and we are all consenting adults so its our choice.
> 
> every board i see you posting on, youve had to preach about the use of gear for women. give it a rest.


Well said Avril!


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## avril (Mar 5, 2005)

equipoise is my personal favourite.


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

^Spammer?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

I think the issues with Winstrol in women are 2-fold.

It has such a large affinity for SHBG, that when taken, more testosterone is left free; some will be converted to DHT through natural channels. I know women have less Test than men naturally, but more of it is free because Winstrol is binding to SHBG, its still a hell of a lot more than a women would have naturally. So, the lady concerned could experience virilisation through this secondary channel. This will obviously be worse if she is using even small amounts of test too.

The other issue I believe ia that Winstrol stimualtes the DHT receptors directly in some tissues - could be wrong - but this would explain why its one of the most anecdotally renowned for accelerating MPB.... the only explanation since has already been poitned out its already went down the chemical pathway to DHT, and cant aromatise back to DHT as it were.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Not to mention DHT is like 3 times more androgenic than testosterone.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Not to mention DHT is like 3 times more androgenic than testosterone.


Exactly - you take a womens benign level natural test, unbind it and let it go free - you have more androgenic component straight off - then when 5alpha-reductase does its job because that test is free, you have way more DHT and as you say, at 3x more androgenic than test, then I think it is pretty obvious what could happen. Indirect cascade effect caused by the introduction of Winstrol.

As well as any direct action Winstrol might exert as well at the DHT receptor.

I am no expert on the womens side of enhancement, but it is immediately obvious to me it is more about manipulation of the balance / exploitation of natural process, rather than amount/range of meds used...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I have never known any women to take winstrol.

I knew one that did anavar, and I think a little deca, she did some test and she started the virilization process, too bad too cuz she was hotter than hell.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I have never known any women to take winstrol.
> 
> I knew one that did anavar, and I think a little deca, she did some test and she started the virilization process, too bad too cuz she was hotter than hell.


Its quite common over here Hackskii, but unfortunately, llike the male aspect, ignorance abounds and I believe it is pretty much a case of "x used it, so I will use it" - never to stop and logically think about what happens on a basic level...

I know of one wannabe female bodybuilder, who, being advised by a knowledgable person and was taking deca at a sensible dose, decided to start self injecting - upped her dose to something in line with what an average male would use - with absolutely no knowledge to qualify her decision I might add, and unbeknownst to the person advising her.

What happend, yep, virilisation - and now the idiot comments publically about why you shouldnt use steroids if you are a woman, go figure.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I see this very same thing in men (not virilization), they didnt listen in holding off, then jump into it without any advice because everyone on the board told that person to wait.

did it anyway, got some issues, now puts everyone off that is even older than him and suggests they are not ready.

I have seen some ladies that look like they have bigger nuts than me.....


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

I have a few female friends that have used winstrol and neither of them have hairy bllx but I still wouldn't touch it. Have they been careful or just lucky? I don't know. Yeah we've all seen pictures of the extreme shemen but there are also alot of very hot ladies out there who use steroids. That's the reality of it. I personally think there is ALWAYS a payoff no matter how small the dosage, the question is how big of a payoff are you willing to live with and how big a risk are you willing to take. To think that there will be no sides whatsoever is naive. I've accepted this, I've accepted that there will be sides and I know what I am willing to pay but I wouldn't judge someone else who wants to take it further!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I am gonna take a stab at this one but here it is.

Steroids are known to ramp up libido in men, is it the same in women too?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I am gonna take a stab at this one but here it is.
> 
> Steroids are known to ramp up libido in men, is it the same in women too?


How very VERY dare you!!!!

:lol:


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

PMSL - I believe it can but I've not turned into Mrs Rampant Rabbit as of yet.


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## mick_the_brick (Oct 29, 2008)

Some interesting posts in here guys..

Thanks for sharing


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

RS2007 said:


> Its quite common over here Hackskii, but unfortunately, llike the male aspect, ignorance abounds and I believe it is pretty much a case of "x used it, so I will use it" - never to stop and logically think about what happens on a basic level...
> 
> * I know of one wannabe female bodybuilder, who, being advised by a knowledgable person and was taking deca at a sensible dose, decided to start self injecting - upped her dose to something in line with what an average male would use - with absolutely no knowledge to qualify her decision I might add, and unbeknownst to the person advising her.*
> 
> ...


Three guesses who that was lol.... she's a fcking tw*t! :whistling:



ElfinTan said:


> I have a few female friends that have used winstrol and neither of them have hairy bllx but I still wouldn't touch it. Have they been careful or just lucky? I don't know. Yeah we've all seen pictures of the extreme shemen but there are also alot of very hot ladies out there who use steroids. That's the reality of it. I personally think there is ALWAYS a payoff no matter how small the dosage, the question is how big of a payoff are you willing to live with and how big a risk are you willing to take. To think that there will be no sides whatsoever is naive. I've accepted this, I've accepted that there will be sides and I know what I am willing to pay but I wouldn't judge someone else who wants to take it further!


Exackerly chick.

You have to be soooo careful...

I've jst posted in my journal my current course... I dont mind being honest about these things, but I am very very wary and think long and hard about everything I do...


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Same here...I turn it over a million times then talk to people I trust not to bull me and then turn it over some more!


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

primabolon and prop should be ok to use

if not try some test suspension hahaha


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

jadsn003 said:


> Generic Levitra has a great record in treating the men suffering with the erectile dysfunction in men. All the men who used Generic Levitra for the treatment of erectile dysfunction are satisfied with the results. But, still it is not approved by the FDA as the drug against the neurological disorders. Although Generic Levitra shows some promise as a therapeutic agent in selected neurological disorders, well-designed clinical trials are needed before the agent can be recommended for use in any neurological disorder. So, you should you resist yourself from using Generic Levitra for neurological disorders unless it gets approval fro the Food and Drug Administration.<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>


This is a thread for women so what the fck has droopy willy syndrome got to do with the price of eggs? :confused1:

Or could it possibly be:spam:


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## Biscuits (Jul 8, 2008)

Genuine Primabolon hard to find in my area, lots of fake stuff around for some reason so I have avoided it. I'm surprised at some of the reactions to winny, but perhaps I'm being naive. I tried my first course of the winstrol depot for 8 weeks over the winter and increased strength and muscle hardness which I was pleased with. I used a very low dose daily and drank it in protein shakes (is that me being naive again! Took lots of milk thistle).

As for side affects, my periods were almost non existent and I suffered a break out of spots when I finshed the course. But everyhting getting back to normal again now which to be honest i'm really relieved about.

I had thought long and hard about it and I was very careful with the doseage, but everyone is different and whats right for one isn't alwyas right for another. Do your homework I guess.


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## Macca 1976 (Sep 16, 2008)

do women still have periods when taking gear if so does it mess them up?


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## Biscuits (Jul 8, 2008)

Macca 1976 said:


> do women still have periods when taking gear if so does it mess them up?


I still had one, but it was it was minimal. Thankfully, all back to normal now but everyone is different.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

in my opinion from my experience with women and drugs anavar cannot be beat for a good proportion of women add 1iu of GH to this and in my opinion you need nothing else unless you want to compete in the physique classes then NPP/Deca/EQ/Masteron are all decent drugs no need to use test as a women unless you are highly advanced...only my opinion though...


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

And a VERY valuable opinion it is!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

cheers sweetie....


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Paul, Question?

In your opinion, is GH as beneficial to women as it is for men?

If more or less, can you please explain?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes mate from my experiences it is, women get better skin, hair, nails etc along with fat loss and depending on the women and her training some muscle.....i have found though that more than 2iu's of pharma will cause water retention in most who take it so either stick with this does or lower or slowly increase the dose but for me i don't see the point in going higher than 2iu's a day for a women.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

That is just fantastic.

I would like to have my GF try some, going through menopause sucks.

She eats less and still tends to gain some weight, she struggles with weight even though she is pretty small.

I eat more in one meal than she eats in a day.

But, she wont eat any animal protein sources other than eggs.

She really needs more protein in her diet, but she listens about as well as my shoe.

I am really looking into CJC-1295

It is not very expensive and is domestic.

Twice a week jabs and we both can do that.

Maybe it might help her libido too.

Max suggests it may prime the pituitary.


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> in my opinion from my experience with women and drugs anavar cannot be beat for a good proportion of women add 1iu of GH to this and in my opinion you need nothing else unless you want to compete in the physique classes then NPP/Deca/EQ/Masteron are all decent drugs no need to use test as a women unless you are highly advanced...only my opinion though...


For most yeah.... but lets be honest.... trained figure girls are now like physique (doesnt help that the have all but done away with physique and so the bigger girls are doing trained figure and the judges aint saying fcuk all.....)

So in my case, where as I have always had ideal figure proportions, now I find I am too small and am having to use primo, boldenone, anavar, masteron etc to get to a size that I am able to compete.....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

disagree Zara most of my experiance is with physique girls and believe me i have never had any of my girls use as much as what you have said and they are way bigger.....and you want to see the girl i am prepping this year for the 055 class


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Disagree Zara there is no need for half of those drugs, the physique girls i have coached have not used half of these and they are much bigger than you....

one of the main issues with women who want to get bigger is that they don't eat enough as they don't want to risk getting fat....you don't need all these drugs so i guess we disagree


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2009)

glanzav said:


> prop should be ok to use


 Sure if a sex change is your goal.

My mum used to compete (shes purely into health training now because she thinks bb is unhealthy) but she competed at 5ft3 and around 60kg, maximum doses for her were 1iu gh ed with 100mg primo every week. Winstrol even at 5-10mg gave negative sides, anavar at 5mg was very good, tbol at 10mg was good, dbol at 2.5mg for very short periods of time worked nearly too well.

Its obviously a very personal thing just be very carefull because even with her very modest use she had a slight voice change, nothing horrific but its obvious to those that know her.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> Disagree Zara there is no need for half of those drugs, the physique girls i have coached have not used half of these and they are much bigger than you....


I totally agree Paul, winny, var, and very small amounts of nandrolone for those who want to do physique are all that is needed, I am not a fan of primo for men or women, (which is also a DHT derived drug), I think it is over priced and weak, and there may be few sides, but inj pure sunflower oil would give you few sides too.



Con said:


> Sure if a sex change is your goal.
> 
> My mum used to compete (shes purely into health training now because she thinks bb is unhealthy) but she competed at 5ft3 and around 60kg, maximum doses for her were 1iu gh ed with 100mg primo every week. *Winstrol even at 5-10mg gave negative sides*, anavar at 5mg was very good, tbol at 10mg was good, dbol at 2.5mg for very short periods of time worked nearly too well.


What kind of sides mate?

Interesting that winny gave sides, but T bol did not.

I've not known of any women who used T bol, but it does interest me.

Con's Mum did look superb, :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2009)

Nytol said:


> I am not a fan of primo for men or women, (which is also a DHT derived drug), I think it is over priced and weak, and there may be few sides, but inj pure sunflower oil would give you few sides too.
> 
> What kind of sides mate?
> 
> ...


 Primarly hair loss and very rapid hair loss at that. Her hair permantly thinned after using winstrol oral form. It must be noted she never stacked any thing so we could determine what gave her the sides.

Thanks for the compliment i will let her know you said that next time i talk to her, she actually stopped training seriously because people were telling her she looked bad:rolleyes:

Just a little positive note about gear as we all love those

My mum was borderline alcoholic for many years and was in a very unhealthy state ie red nose at all times until i got her training. Now 5 years on her doctor said she is the healthiest woman of her age he has ever seen:thumbup1:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the women i have helped found the same side effect Con with Winny as your mum did....


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> the women i have helped found the same side effect Con with Winny as your mum did....


This thread is the 1st time I have ever heard anyone mention that in regards to women.

Interesting stuff, :thumbup1:


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

That's the main reason I wouldn't go near the stuff!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Aurther L. Rea suggests winstrol is the worst drug for hairloss.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

hackskii said:


> Aurther L. Rea suggests winstrol is the worst drug for hairloss.


A. L Rea is a total cock, and very little he says should be taken seriously.

Personally I do not know any one, male or female who has had hair loss with Winny.

Also these side effects are very individual.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Con said:


> Primarly hair loss and very rapid hair loss at that. Her hair permantly thinned after using winstrol oral form. It must be noted she never stacked any thing so we could determine what gave her the sides.





Nytol said:


> Personally I do not know any one, male or female who has had hair loss with Winny.


Now you know, see above^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

Ria said he noticed he had the worst hair loss with winstrol, I took that as a first person kind of thing and it set in my mind.

So, there is two.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Speaking on behalf of mrs weeman i can tell you her experiences of gear use since 2006,drugs used have ranged from deca,gh,eq and winny.

sides wise can only say that we have noticed clitoral enlargement and enhanced libido.At the beginning of 2007 for a period of 3 months she ran 100mg deca e10 days plus 2iu gh day on day off,the differences were remarkable,reduction in bodyfat,significant increase in lean tissue and the only training was cardio consisting of 2x40min fast paced walking a day,she ended up very close to toned/trained figure stage worthy.This it has to be pointed out was probably the best shape size/lean bodyweight she has been to date so far at a hieght of 5'4" bodyweight topped out at 130lbs with quad separation,split hams,arm separation,full abs and serratus on show 

since then its basically been cycles of deca only same 100mg e10days and basically the net result has been an increase in lean tissue of around 20lbs in 25 months of cycling including fluctuations of inconsistancy of eating etc bearing in mind this also had a considerable gap where she was pregnant as well.

Earlier this year imediatly post pregnancy she began a cycle of deca at 100mg e10days once again and 12.5mg winny ed plus 10mg tam ed (but we dropped the tam in the end as after talking with a friend deemed it unnessecary to what the goals were) the winny was followed for a period of around 4 weeks and then continued with the deca alone.

that brings us to now,around 5 weeks ago she started using 100mg eq e7-10 days and body comp has changed dramatically,again the only training done has been cardio,bodyweight at the beginning of cycle was 119lbs and is now currently a significantly leaner and more muscular 124lbs.

so there you go,just thought would post some real time doses etc of a female who basically doesnt train (all barring cardio) tho does follow a high protein diet and uses small to minimal doses of gear


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2009)

So your missus does in fact do some thing to have such a good body I KNEW IT! :lol: :thumb:

Why not get her doing a little bit of weights or do you just like the sex drive increase and lean body?


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

lol yeah mate youve rumbled her secret lol

in fairness as genetics goes she is better than average even without gear when she sticks to high protein diet alone,i wish she would get her ass into the gym but truth be told she just lacks the motivation and and consistency to train properly which is a real shame,but hey ho cant make her do what she doesnt want to do.

the actual main benefit for her of taking gear is the fact it stops her periods dead in their tracks,the leaner body and increase sex drive is an added bonus of course tho lol


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Great 1st hand info WM.

Before Mrs WM took anything did you discuss possible sides and how far either of you were prepared to deem as acceptable to live with or was just toast it a see?


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

ElfinTan said:


> Great 1st hand info WM.
> 
> Before Mrs WM took anything did you discuss possible sides and how far either of you were prepared to deem as acceptable to live with or was just toast it a see?


thanks tan 

discussed with a cple girls who we know had lot of experience with certain compounds etc and did a bit of research net wise,decided to start out real small,first cycle was deca at 50mg e10days to moderate effect,and took it from there because as you know apart from obvious documented sides and individuals cases each persons tolerance differ,we tend to find something like deca at over 100mg(ie 125-150mgs) e7days for an extended period warranted unwanted sides so have found that staying at the 100mg mark e10days has been ideal balance for ser 

when it come to other drugs being involved again that was discussed with a few others,investigated and then onto trial and error


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Yeah that's the thing everyone reacts so differently and has different tolerances! Excellent info! Suppose I best rep ya for that lol


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> disagree Zara most of my experiance is with physique girls and believe me i have never had any of my girls use as much as what you have said and they are way bigger.....and you want to see the girl i am prepping this year for the 055 class





Pscarb said:


> Disagree Zara there is no need for half of those drugs, the physique girls i have coached have not used half of these and they are much bigger than you....
> 
> one of the main issues with women who want to get bigger is that they don't eat enough as they don't want to risk getting fat....you don't need all these drugs so i guess we disagree


Paul.... am sure you know my eating theorys by now lol... I eat more than half the guys I know  Am strict with the 1.8gms protein per lb all year round and I dont starve myself of carbs either :thumbup1:

I've done anavar courses and got very little from them, soon as I started primo I started to grow properly for the first time ever. So I guess it works for me.

Maybe the girls you are coaching simply have different genetics to me? Its unrealistic to say that they are unnecessary as everyone is different. I happen to know the courses of quite a few girls who compete (though out of respect for their privacy I wont go into it) and mine is pretty conservative....



Nytol said:


> This thread is the 1st time I have ever heard anyone mention that in regards to women.
> 
> Interesting stuff, :thumbup1:





Nytol said:


> Personally I do not know any one, male or female who has had hair loss with Winny.
> 
> Also these side effects are very individual.


Nytol..... Surely you must have seen these girls who compete who have receding hairlines...? Well, this is in almost every case, down to winstrol. Its an extremely well known side and one of the most noticeable and unpleasant ones for women. I know a couple girls personally who have suffered bad from it. I wouldnt touch the stuff except MAYBE the last 10 days at a very low dose, but not even sure I'd do that tbh.


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## GBLiz (Jul 9, 2004)

ive used winstrol for about 3 weeks just 7.5mg a day i think it was, and it made my scalp really dandruffy and my skin went all textured, came straight off it!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Zara-Leoni said:


> Paul.... am sure you know my eating theorys by now lol... I eat more than half the guys I know Am strict with the 1.8gms protein per lb all year round and I dont starve myself of carbs either
> 
> I've done anavar courses and got very little from them, soon as I started primo I started to grow properly for the first time ever. So I guess it works for me.
> 
> Maybe the girls you are coaching simply have different genetics to me? Its unrealistic to say that they are unnecessary as everyone is different. I happen to know the courses of quite a few girls who compete (though out of respect for their privacy I wont go into it) and mine is pretty conservative....


I am not surprised Primo worked for you it is a very good drug for women but it is not the only thing you are using but what you use is down to you non of my business really, not all the girls i have coached or do coach have great genetics in my opinion it is down to proper manipulation of all the factors involved....

i know alot of girls who compete and yes they do take a fair amount but to be fair zara you are really just starting out and are not established i am just shocked by the amount you use for a women at your level...this is not a dig just concern for your long term health.....


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Zara-Leoni said:


> Nytol..... Surely you must have seen these girls who compete who have receding hairlines...? Well, this is in almost every case, down to winstrol. Its an extremely well known side and one of the most noticeable and unpleasant ones for women. I know a couple girls personally who have suffered bad from it. I wouldnt touch the stuff except MAYBE the last 10 days at a very low dose, but not even sure I'd do that tbh.


I can see something in a picture, but as I do not know the girls in question I can not say what they have used, can I? They could have been using a gram of tren per week for all I know, so a bit of a silly statement.

You know all of the competitive female BB'ers do you, (as that was a pretty sweeping statement), and know for a fact that Stan was the culprit for any hair loss?

I have personally known women who have used it at 10-20mg per day and had no hair loss issues, I know several men who have prepped women and used Stan and hair loss was never a side effect mentioned, I have no shares in Stanozolol production, so am not bias in any way.

Maybe it is just coincidence that the people I know had no issue and the people you know did?

Almost every guy who has used AAS has used Stan at one time or another, and I've not had any feedback about accelerated hair loss while using it.

Not saying it cant happen, just stating my experiences, and the experiences of those I speak to and consult with.

I mentioned it before but it seemed to get brushed over, *Primo and Masteron are both DHT derived drugs*, and quite a few men have had hair loss from Primo.

Out of the 3 drugs, I would choose Stan for a woman, then probably a low dose Nandrolone.

Primo and Masteron would be much further down on my list.

I do not wish to be disrespectful, or get into an argument, but your knowledge of AAS is basic to say the least, yet you speak of things as if they are fact, which they are not, it is personal opinion, just like mine is, from my experience and the experience of others, which I am willing to bet is more extensive than yours.

With the amount of drugs you have used and the fact you are so short, I would expect you to carry a lot more muscle, if your diet and training are in order.

This makes me wonder about the quality of the AAS you have used, I know you have mentioned APEX in the past, which IMO was poor to say the least, and who knows what was actually in it, esp the expensive stuff like Primo and Anavar, very easy to substitute a low dose of some thing else, to bump up profit margins, and unless you had it tested you would never know the difference.


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## avril (Mar 5, 2005)

i never saw any sides personally from stan but i only used for the final 2-3 weeks of diet at 10g per day.


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> I am not surprised Primo worked for you it is a very good drug for women but it is not the only thing you are using but what you use is down to you non of my business really, not all the girls i have coached or do coach have great genetics in my opinion it is down to proper manipulation of all the factors involved....
> 
> i know alot of girls who compete and yes they do take a fair amount but to be fair zara you are really just starting out and are not established i am just shocked by the amount you use for a women at your level...this is not a dig just concern for your long term health.....


 Paul - as you know I am being prepped by someone else this year who has prepped some very decent figure girls over the years and has a lot of experience. I am doing this under his guidance so I am comfortable that I am doing the right thing.

I dont think you're having a dig mate - just discussing things. Long term health is always an issue, and one I think about a lot. However this is the way I am doing it, and so far I've had no more sides than when I did anavar courses. I appreciate the concern, and honestly, a lot of thought and discussion has gone into things. Also.... the products I mentioned earlier in this thread.... these are things I HAVE tried in the past.... I am not using them all at the moment! I hope thats not how it came across. From my last show I did a few anavar courses, then near the end of last year i tried primo instead for one course. The actual doses of the products themselves have been kept sensible IMO. I'm using a fair bit less dose-wise than some other girls who compete that I can think of.... 



Nytol said:


> I can see something in a picture, but as I do not know the girls in question I can not say what they have used, can I? They could have been using a gram of tren per week for all I know, so a bit of a silly statement.
> 
> You know all of the competitive female BB'ers do you, (as that was a pretty sweeping statement), and know for a fact that Stan was the culprit for any hair loss?
> 
> ...


 Nytol.... you mention two things here... the doses/amounts I am using and my knowledge of AAS.

I've never told you what doses I used so how can you comment on it? You seem to be assuming it was massive amounts and it certainly was not.

Actually, I have always been comfortable posting online exactly what I do, so that girls can discuss and debate what works for them and try to get past this silly secrecy where everyone hides or denies what they really do or did.

On another board, I get asked "why this" or "why put that with that" etc and we discuss and learn from each other (and sometimes I may change things as a result of theses discussions and learnings). I like that atmosphere and I feel comfortable being 100% honest and open. On here, all I have had so far is the school teachers voice barking "Miss Ford you know nothing and are doing everything wrong, how dare you presume to have a knowledge of what you are doing with your own body" (ok, thats an exaggeration but you get my point).

As a result it makes me not want to post or open up about my prep. If I felt people could ask questions and discuss NICELY without trying to patronise me or belittle my knowledge (and lets be honest.... I am still learning..... we ALL are at our own level, including you mate... thats the point), then I would be much more receptive to discussion. As it is, you're not trying to help, you're just trying to point out that you know more than me and I am doing it wrong.

Any why would I carry more muscle just because I am short? You get short petite people just as much as you get short stocky people. I am one of the former.

Your comment that my knowledge is basic to say the least, and you're willing to bet your knowledge and experience is considerably greater than mine..... Well to be frank, I find that patronising and egotistical. We all KNOW you are knowledgable mate.... however theres no need to put other people down to prove it. And for the record.... I dont pretend to be an expert by any stretch, but lack of posting on a subject is not evidence of lack of knowledge.....


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Zara-Leoni said:


> I shall try to word this carefully as you seem quite defensive and insecure about being questioned or criticised about anything, and I do not wish this to seem like a person attack as it is most certainly not.
> 
> Nytol.... you mention two things here... the doses/amounts I am using and my knowledge of AAS.
> 
> ...


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

EXTREME said:


> I disagree, I have the ladies I advise use equipoise. The only deca I think they should use is phenyl-prop, and I don't think winstrol is a good choice for long periods due to DHT conversion. Anavar is ok, and primo in the correct amounts.
> 
> Pre comp I have them use eq until 2 weeks out, proviron, nolv, arimidex, wins (last 10 days) anavar last 2 weeks. We've had good success with this and nobody has reported any real sides.





Pscarb said:


> Anavar
> 
> Primo
> 
> ...





happy haggis said:


> i juggle different courses but i find the best one for me is a combo of deca, equ and winny for 6 weeks then last 2 weeks on prop.





avril said:


> equipoise is my personal favourite.


Ok - above we have a few quotes from people on here who named some drugs they use or recommend...

Then I wrote this:



Zara-Leoni said:


> now I find I am too small and am having to use primo, boldenone, anavar, masteron etc to get to a size that I am able to compete.....


May I point out. This does not state doses or what was used when. It also does not say that I am using them all together. (for the record I've done anavar only courses over the past 3 yrs, masteron was 75mgs/week last 2 weeks of my last contest prep, primo was my most recent off-season course and boldenone/primo is the current one. There. Now you can blast me for facts not assumptions you have made about me).

I didnt say how many years ago I first took gear, or what doses I have used, for how long or any other information. Yet you have pounced on my comments and not on the ones made by the people above me.... why do you take exception to me saying this is whats working for me? what does it matter to you? you my not agree its the right way to go, that is your right, but the way you come across with it is incredibly confrontational and aggressive.



Nytol said:


> I shall try to word this carefully as you seem quite defensive and insecure about being questioned or criticised about anything, and I do not wish this to seem like a person attack as it is most certainly not.
> 
> Nytol.... you mention two things here... the doses/amounts I am using and my knowledge of AAS.
> 
> ...


Anyway Matt, I dont think this thread is really achieving much except you and I going on at each other.

I'm prepared to leave it at this, I personally have no more to say on the matter. You can continue to blast me for my alleged shortcomings if you wish. I accept that you dont agree or approve of what I am doing and wouldnt recommend it. Fair enough, point taken. If I choose to ignore it then on my own head be it.

You do know your stuff, I'll give you that much, but it would be more appreciated if you put it across in a helpful rather than such a critical way. Just my 2 cents worth....


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

I shall address a few points that I feel need clarifying tomorrow, need to sleep now.

Zara you most certainly have the wrong opinion of me, and I have absolutely nothing against you, but I shall make my last comments on the issue tomorrow too.

Watch this space,


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

:blink:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

MissBC said:


> :blink:


Been reading this debate with interest...

I take it with the "blink EYE" smiley you have some useful information to add to said debate??

I would very much like to hear your input..

Seems a bit rude to add a smiley in a context that could be construed in a usually negative way and then not add something productive to debate..

Pray tell what aforementioned smiley was indicative off???


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I would love to hear the girls perspective on steoid use.

I would love to understand the application of said use.

All input would be totally welcome.

I dont know of any boards that speaks openly about this.

This open dialogue with other women is totally welcome, lets try guys to encourage this ok?


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

OK! Just a few what I hope will be understood as it is intended and that is objective observation.

I think a step back and deep breath should be taken. The major problem with online debate is that the 70%(or is it more?) non verbal communication is completely eliminated which so easily leads to misunderstandings. The 'voice' you are typing with is more often than not, not the 'voice' that the text is read. Unfortunately this discussion has taken what appears to be a more personal argument than a discussion that is beneficial to the rest of the board. I am very sure that this was not intentional.

Unfortunately for women who do take PEDs they stand on the fringe or a fringe group in society and the pretty much the only sources we have are anecdotal. We have no choice but to rely quite heavily on the experiences of others when researching and influencing our decisions. Some of us are lucky enough to have exerienced friends and aquaintances but it is often the case that all women have to go off is 2nd/3rd hard reports. I for one would think it a shame if as women, we could not discuss this in a constructive way.

Objective obsevation nr 1 - Nytol you are coming across as rather harsh and targeting Z and it appears to me that this goes beyond the topic of discussion. I however would be extremely interested in gaining information in this field from you as you have raised some points that are very interesting. eg The DHT/primo issue.

Z - It could possibly be that you are feeling a tad over defensive as it is an issue that women all too often get attacked about so we are on almost an automatic defensive where as maybe we wouldn't be with other topics. Also dieting being on a course often changes peoples perspectives even very slightly (I have close hand experience of this with PG and also feel changes in myself when I'm using). I'm not saying this IS the case but it is a possibility. I, however would find it an absolute shame if you discontinued your openess about what you use....mistakes and all. It is so helpful to alot of people.

As Mr Hacksi says we need this discussion BUT we need it to be constructive.

If I offended I assure this is not my intention....trust me if I intend to offend I would make it VERY clear:whistling:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Nice one Tan.

Just a quick note on the dht derivation issue - just because a drug is derived from DHT, does not necessarily mean it will have some, all or any characteristics of DHT. After all estrogen is derived from testosterone in the male users body via aromatisation, and I think it is fair to say it shares very little with testosterone effect wise.

For example, you could have 10 drugs that have been developed from DHT, some may excite DHT receptors, and some may not. Some may have a higher affinity for SHBG than natural Testosterone, and some may not.

All of these things will influence the drugs effects in humans, and especially women where i think we can all agree a more sensitive/sensible and thought out approach is required - I'm willing to bet that in some cases, problems that women encounter are indirectly caused further down the chain, by issues that would either go unnoticed in males, or not be problematic for the main part.

Now thats all good and well, but real life becomes more complicated because of the sheer number of variables in our game, some known, most not.

Just to add reference really, the most accelerated hair loss I have encountered personally just happened to be with winstrol on both occasions, and the only other steroid I was using at the time was test prop. Was the hair loss caused by the quicker more intense release of test (form the prop ester - I dont notice hair loss using test normally, long ester) giving an increased intensity of DHT conversion, or was it the winstrol acting directly on the DHT receptors in my scalp itself? Is the latter even possible? If anyone has studies I'd love a read.

Simple answer, I dont know for sure what casued it in my case, and I am not afraid to admit it.

I have read books quoting Winstrol being bad for accelerating hair loss going back nearly 20 years though - so it is clearly getting the blame for it. What does this mean? Well it doesnt mean the authors had actually proven it, it just means they made a reasonable observation as I have with myself, and came up with that as the culprit. They could of course be wrong.

Last time I used primo was 12 years ago, and I have either not trusted or not been prepared to pay the price for any I have seen since, so I couldnt say for sure what the hell that would do to me in terms of hair loss - havent heard anyone in know complaining, but, then as I say I dont know if I trust a lot of the primo right now, so unknowingly they might not actually be using primo.... and this might not even be the lab at fault - I dont for one minute trust a lot of the people selling raw, especially given the parts of the world they are often from, where the opportunity to make cash may subvert integrity... nuff said on that


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Sorry for the delay, I shall have to be brief as I've little time.

Tan, I agree it was getting a bit personal although that was not my intention.

As such I shall respond to the points in the reply to your PM Zara, maybe we can speak more calmly that way?

RS very nice post and I agree in regards to the DHT issue.

I personally do not know of anyone losing hair on Primo, but then know of few people that would waste their time and money taking it.

Much of what I read was anecdotal from the early 90's but there was a definite trend.

As I said, I do know many, many people who have used Winny, some men up to 200mg per day oral for 8 weeks, (plus other stuff of course), and never been told of accelerated hair loss on it.


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## METAL (Sep 14, 2008)

ElfinTan said:


> Unfortunately for women who do take PEDs they stand on the fringe or a fringe group in society and the pretty much the only sources we have are anecdotal. We have no choice but to rely quite heavily on the experiences of others when researching and influencing our decisions. Some of us are lucky enough to have exerienced friends and aquaintances but it is often the case that all women have to go off is 2nd/3rd hard reports. I for one would think it a shame if as women, we could not discuss this in a constructive way.


You're very right, which is (i feel) the very reason Nytol felt the need to strongly impose his opinions on the situation. I'm sure you'll agree with his point that women new to the world of PED's will assume Zara is correct in what she's doing because of what she looks like. If she states things as a matter of fact and new users follow this as gospel that could spell bad news for them. Now i know it is down to every user to research the subject themselves and hold an understanding of what they are about to do, but it is easy to follow the voice of someone you aspire to look like...


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

I really don't think that is exclusive to females new to PEDS...all you need is a quick flick through the men's section. I actually think women are as a rule far more cautious when starting out and not as stupid as we are portrayed as being. I have had a few mail conversations with Z regarding usage...both hers and mine and at no point as she OR any other female I have discussed it with given their experiences as gospel. They have said what they take and why and shared their personal experiences. And precisely this is what an open forum SHOULD be about, the gathering of information. If we are to presume that a person new to anything is going to take whatever information they read on the internet as absolute fact from a single person, regardless of what they look like or their aspirations are, then they should not be even thinking about taking Smarties never mind anything else!


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## METAL (Sep 14, 2008)

ElfinTan said:


> I really don't think that is exclusive to females new to PEDS...all you need is a quick flick through the men's section. I actually think women are as a rule far more cautious when starting out and not as stupid as we are portrayed as being. I have had a few mail conversations with Z regarding usage...both hers and mine and at no point as she OR any other female I have discussed it with given their experiences as gospel. They have said what they take and why and shared their personal experiences. And precisely this is what an open forum SHOULD be about, the gathering of information. If we are to presume that a person new to anything is going to take whatever information they read on the internet as absolute fact from a single person, regardless of what they look like or their aspirations are, then they should not be even thinking about taking Smarties never mind anything else!


I didn't say it was exclusive to women, it was you that said women have a harder time finding factual reference and i agreed. And regarding your last point, unfortunately there are many people who don't know much before they start, and those are exactly the type of people who will assume someone knows what they are talking about because of what they look like.

I'll say again, that i think the reason Nytol said what he said, was because he felt that what Zara said could be interprated as fact. As a mod and man of extensive knowlege, i'm certain he was acting in a way to protect these naive individuals. I don't think he should be given stick for that.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

I'm out of here!


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Just when I thought we were all starting to get along and find a common ground too.......



METAL said:


> I'm sure you'll agree with his point that women new to the world of PED's will assume Zara is correct in what she's doing because of what she looks like.


I'm not being funny here, but maybe..... just MAYBE.... I look like I do because I am doing something right...? .......just a thought......

(note: I dont think I look that great actually and think I could be a million times better, but you get my point....)



METAL said:


> I'll say again, that i think the reason Nytol said what he said, was because he felt that what Zara said could be interprated as fact.


Back to this again.

Can you please quote in this thread something I have stated as fact?

You've just set this back.... Nytol and I seem to be smoothing over our differences and getting to understand how each other thinks better (hopefully to our benefit) and in you storm, singleing me out and ignoring the fact that other people in this thread are saying similar things to myself (see my quoted posts above if you are confused). Yet despite other (highly knowledgable) members stating (in more detail than me) what they have girls use, you're going on about the supposed facts (none) that I have stated????

What IS fact is which products I've tried and how I personally got on with them. Just because I say I've used primo and boldenone, (which IS a fact) doesn't mean the whole world is going to stampede to follow. This is just my attempt at information sharing (which I shall not be doing again thanks to reactions like this). Specifically what I said was "I've found now that I am having to use x, y and z..."

Other than that, I've said that of the girls I've spoken to who have experienced hairloss, they reckoned it was down to winstrol. (passing on their opinion and experience).

Where are these supposed things in this thread, that I am claiming as fact? Go on.... quote something..... we're all waiting....


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

ElfinTan said:


> I'm out of here!


Do not blame you in the slightest.... feeling the same way myself. xx


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Zara-Leoni said:


> Do not blame you in the slightest.... feeling the same way myself. xx


Well...i've got to shave sometime so no time like the present! :whistling: WWWHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i am offended


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## METAL (Sep 14, 2008)

Wow, it seems you are easily offended Zara. I'm not storming in anywhere acusing anyone of anything. I just think the point has been overlooked that a moderator was correcting something HE FELT was either inaccurate or badly worded. TBH i really don't care what you do or what you take. I was mearly responding to a point tan made which i felt was unfair. Matt doesn't need me to speak out for him, and i'm certainly not trying to cause waves Having read my previous post back i could have worded my post more carefully and i do apologise if you felt it was a dig at you. It was a reply to tan's point and that is all.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Group hug!!!!!!


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

Just come across this thread, some very interesting points.

Group hug and lets continue this discussion, I for one (very limited knowledge) am learning from this thread. You will never see this issue discussed on other forums openly, so please for the sake of guys\girls like me, can we continue this thread


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## TheTalent (Sep 25, 2009)

lol @ anyone voting for deca LOL

tried clen.....wouldnt recommend to woman, man, dog


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## kitten30 (Sep 25, 2008)

TheTalent said:


> lol @ anyone voting for deca LOL
> 
> *tried clen.....wouldnt recommend to woman, man, dog*


Why not??


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## iopener (Jan 1, 2007)

kitten30 said:


> Why not??


Because its crap. Tons of sides for a meagre increase in calorie expenditure. that and its not easily available in pharma. Anything like clen which needs to be accurately dosed in Micrograms will not earn my trust with a UGL.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

anapolon 50's or test suspension!


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## kitten30 (Sep 25, 2008)

iopener said:


> Because its crap. Tons of sides for a meagre increase in calorie expenditure. that and its not easily available in pharma. Anything like clen which needs to be accurately dosed in Micrograms will not earn my trust with a UGL.


 Thank you


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

For best gains TREN


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

The womem who take Anavar can take brith control pill? Will this be ok? Or must stop one?

The anavar dose would be 5mg/ED for 1 Week, and 10mg for the rest 5W.Will do 6 week cycle

Thank you.


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## avril (Mar 5, 2005)

jw007 said:


> For best gains TREN


tren acetate?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

var primo small dose of winy


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

big_jim_87 said:


> var primo small dose of winy


But can it take brith control pill at the same time as Anavar?

Or will reduce de gains?

Thank you all.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Jungle warfare by ALRI works very well for my wife.

It is low does tbol i believe.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Biohazard_pt said:


> But can it take brith control pill at the same time as Anavar?
> 
> Or will reduce de gains?
> 
> Thank you all.


I have read elsewhere that it can lessen the gains. My periods stop even with low dose Var. If another birth control method is a viable option then perhaps it would be an idea to use that whilst she is taking the Var to maximise her gains. I always thinks it's best to make the most of it whilst your using is including spot on training and diet.


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

Thank you, so is best that she stops the brith control pill, a start the var, and whem stop the var return to the brith control pill .


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Biohazard_pt said:


> Thank you, so is best that she stops the brith control pill, a start the var, and whem stop the var return to the brith control pill .


I don't think it would do any harm to. Just seems silly to be shoving loads of different hormones in......could make it a bit of an emotional rollercoaster lol!


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

ElfinTan said:


> I don't think it would do any harm to. Just seems silly to be shoving loads of different hormones in......could make it a bit of an emotional rollercoaster lol!


That is not good, lool.Thank you for your help, i think is not good to stop the brith contrl pill to do a cycle of Anavar, so i think we will do 10mg/ED for 6 Weeks to see how it works.I will post the result.


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## Sweet1 (Jul 30, 2015)

I am looking for something to help strip the fat. I am just starting out and have extra weight from having kids and stomach that I can not get back. What would be the best for me to use to help strip the fat right now? I am not doing this to get big I am doing it to get back in shape, to have more energy, and health. Any advice??


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## bugii (Jul 2, 2013)

Sweet1 said:


> I am looking for something to help strip the fat. I am just starting out and have extra weight from having kids and stomach that I can not get back. What would be the best for me to use to help strip the fat right now? I am not doing this to get big I am doing it to get back in shape, to have more energy, and health. Any advice??


Hello, i think you are in the wrong topic. Start with CLA or Green tea. If you want help make a new topic on the correctly section. We will help u!


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

Sweet1 said:


> I am looking for something to help strip the fat. I am just starting out and have extra weight from having kids and stomach that I can not get back. What would be the best for me to use to help strip the fat right now? I am not doing this to get big I am doing it to get back in shape, to have more energy, and health. Any advice??


The best option for you would be to get yourself on a good training and diet plan.

If you need some help or guidance of an online coach, feel free to get in touch (more details on my website: www.kvfit.com).


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