# Before and after pics 16wk test,deca,winny



## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

after

before

16 weeks 600mg test, 500mg deca, 50mg e/d winny for last 6 weeks

currently bridging @ 250 mg test e10 days

sorry about the pics they are the only angles ive got (camera shy)

ADDED PICS


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Good work man :thumbup1: Had your tattoo completed at the same time


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## DILLZ (Mar 27, 2011)

Got some massive trap improvement there mate, well done. Shoulders look alot fuller to.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

How much weight/lbm did you gain mate?

How did you find the deca? Pros/ cons?


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

I gained 30lb but im loosing a couple of pound now whilst bridging (water i hope). I started at 12st8lb and i hover around 14st6lb now. Deca was great for me suffered no sides at all, i held some water but that was expected. Winny was great for strength all my lifts went up!


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

Any advice on meds dosages for next cycle? Im not interested in tren.


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## jimmy liverpool (Dec 15, 2010)

hey mate....lookin good man. nice inks too man


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

I'll be honest mate you gained a lot of bodyfat but you def gained some lbm too, I'd say between 10 and 15 lbs lbm the rest bodyfat, if you cut now you'll look a lot better, all just my opinion mind


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

I think that could have been done naturally with proper nutrition and rest if im honest. Still, good progress though nonetheless.


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## WallsOfJericho (Apr 4, 2009)

Good stuyff, cut and complete that tan bro lol


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## Mr White (Feb 8, 2009)

I did myself 12 wks on 600mg test + 400mg deca. Hated the water retention. How are you feeling about it? I see you've lost any definition you had before.



young-pup said:


> Any advice on meds dosages for next cycle? Im not interested in tren.


You can either cut now or keep on bulking. Are you bothered about fat and water retention?


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## GolDeNGaTe (Mar 23, 2011)

Put some good size on but its come at a cost id say, Prefered you lean tbh. sorry.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

young-pup said:


> Any advice on meds dosages for next cycle? Im not interested in tren.


why not tren ?

how about test , EQ and anavar ?


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

Toby1 said:


> Yawn. What were you saying?


My opinion. Yawn.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Toby1 said:


> Yawn. What were you saying?


X 2


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## Dan1234 (Apr 2, 2011)

did the roids help colour in your tattoo??


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

hsmann87 said:


> I think that could have been done naturally with proper nutrition and rest if im honest. Still, good progress though nonetheless.


Hmmmm theres always one! lol


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

Not bothered about bf. Im bulking so bf is always going to increase. I wanted to gain mass and thats what i have acieved. Im happy with the gains thats what matters to me but opinions are always taken on board.


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

young-pup said:


> Not bothered about bf. Im bulking so bf is always going to increase. I wanted to gain mass and thats what i have acieved. Im happy with the gains thats what matters to me but opinions are always taken on board.


If your not bothered about fat then you should of spent your money on mcdonalds and kebabs,!!

To be honest the gains you have made look like fat and water?? the guy saying you have put on 15lb lean muscle has not got a fcuking clue either!!!

Just my opinion


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## energize17 (Jul 25, 2009)

Made some nice solid gains in the time period

Yes you did gain some fat but if your happy with it then who can pass judgment on you looks like you gained 10-15of solid mass

And hsmann87 i dont think anyone can gain 10-15 of quality mass natty in 16 wks do you?

Oh and to the op take the vest off next time in the sun loool

Good progress


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

energize17 said:


> Made some nice solid gains in the time period
> 
> Yes you did gain some fat but if your happy with it then who can pass judgment on you looks like you gained 10-15of solid mass
> 
> ...


Haha do you really believe that any one can put on 20lb of "solid mass" in 16 weeks with or with out steroids??


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Rocho said:


> Haha do you really believe that any one can put on 20lb of "solid mass" in 16 weeks with or with out steroids??


Mass meaning over all weight gain Yes possible .. LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE NOPE IS NOT


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## energize17 (Jul 25, 2009)

Rocho said:


> Haha do you really believe that any one can put on 20lb of "solid mass" in 16 weeks with or with out steroids??


Yes. I didnt say 20lbs of lean muscle

But he does look like he hjas gained around thay much in mass a combination of muscle and fat


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## Aggression (Apr 13, 2009)

Can't believe the hysteria over fat gain, which looks minimal. Could be holding water and may have a bit of bloat, but i can't see too much fat gain if i'm honest. Main thing is, Young Pup, are YOU happy with your gains?

Only bad thing about thing i can see is the unforgivable vest tan lines, tut tut :nono:


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

Rocho said:


> If your not bothered about fat then you should of spent your money on mcdonalds and kebabs,!!
> 
> To be honest the gains you have made look like fat and water?? the guy saying you have put on 15lb lean muscle has not got a fcuking clue either!!!
> 
> Just my opinion


One opinion that wont be taken on board. If yoir going to bulk on 4-5000 cals a day then bf will always increase.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Body fat will increase of course. Maybe you need to post up more pics to give a better idea. I can see you have DEFINITELY gained lean mass but I personally would have expected more profound results from a 16 week cycle of such serious compounds.


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

sizar said:


> Mass meaning over all weight gain Yes possible .. LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE NOPE IS NOT


Well in that case he put on 30lb of "solid mass"!!!

So if the aim was to to put on 2 stone of fat a water hes done well!!!


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## apple (Feb 16, 2011)

its all down to genectics imo ,ok yes diet and training plays a part but that cycle with the righ genectics would of given alot better gains than the op ....

op did you expect more from the cycle or are you 100% happy with what you gained?


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

niall01 said:


> I personally would have expected more profound results from a 16 week cycle of such serious compounds.


X2


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## Mr White (Feb 8, 2009)

young-pup said:


> Not bothered about bf. Im bulking so bf is always going to increase. I wanted to gain mass and thats what i have acieved. Im happy with the gains thats what matters to me but opinions are always taken on board.


I hated the bloat, hus I dont think I will be running any long esters any time soon.

Too bad you dont want to use Tren, it would give you even better gains than deca.

Try Test with EQ for 16-18weeks. EQ takes a loooong while to kick in, and its weaker than deca thus gains wont be ass big. You may Run orals 4wks on 4wks off.

Ideally Dbol, Oxy and Var at the end.


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

young-pup said:


> One opinion that wont be taken on board. If yoir going to bulk on 4-5000 cals a day then bf will always increase.


Why not take it on board?? because you dont like it??

Im not going to kiss your ar$e and tell you how well you have done, when the results from them kind of doses are not very good!?

How much lean muscle do you think you can gain in 16 weeks??

I would say 4-6 good solid pounds would be good gains so allowing for water weight id say anything over 15lb is likley to be fat!!!


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## Rottee (Jun 11, 2009)

Mate you can see you have gained in bicep size and delts well done for progress. If you wanted to bulk and gain with less body fat Id say eat cleaner. Id guess you diet wasnt so clean. Thats down to your choice just remember at some stage you got to get it off.

I know bulk much cleaner than I have done and enjoy it more, but up to you maybe your just a dirty bulker! Lmao Well done mate keep at it.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Rocho said:


> Why not take it on board?? because you dont like it??
> 
> Im not going to kiss your ar$e and tell you how well you have done, when the results from them kind of doses are not very good!?
> 
> ...


I actually pretty much agree with this. I mean have you posted up the pics looking for constructive criticism? Because I don't think it is particualrly helpful to you for people to congratulate you on your gains because they fall far below standard given the course you were on. I am sorry to say that but alot of people are saying well done, and I think in order to maximise your future cylces it is more important for you to discover why this one has not worked to near optimal standards.

I hope this comes across in a helpful way because i am not trying to put you down, but i hope by putting the pics up you were looking for honest opinions and advice.


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

niall01 said:


> I actually pretty much agree with this. I mean have you posted up the pics looking for constructive criticism? Because I don't think it is particualrly helpful to you for people to congratulate you on your gains because they fall far below standard given the course you were on. I am sorry to say that but alot of people are saying well done, and I think in order to maximise your future cylces it is more important for you to discover why this one has not worked to near optimal standards.
> 
> I hope this comes across in a helpful way because i am not trying to put you down, but i hope by putting the pics up you were looking for honest opinions and advice.


Good post and prob worded it better than me!! 

Im not trying to be a d!ck but i dont think some people who are giving advice/opinions are helping!!


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

young-pup said:


> Hmmmm theres always one! lol


one what? One that tells the truth? Yes. You're probably right.

Look. You have made good progress. There is clear evidence of muscle gain in 16 weeks. But like I said, it could have been done naturally.

Im not sure of the fat gain, but there is DEFO water gain there. You have probably gained 2lbs of muscle over that period (if that) IMO.

Look at all the gear you took to get there. You could have done it with either no gear or a simple starter course of Anavar or Test E to be honest.

You wasted a ton of money. If you have a load of disposable income then fine.

But like i said earlier, you have made progress and im not taking that away from you.

You posted progress pics of yourself up on a forum, therefore you need to expect peoples criticisms; both good and bad.

At the end of the day, I tell it how i see it; im not gonna come on and blow a ton of smoke up your a55 saying "yeah mate excellent progress, sick tattoos also etc etc". Ive told you that its good progress, but done in (IMO) a haphazard way...anyone with any honest sense would also agree.

Take it how you please. Didnt mean to belittle you. Just giving an honest opinion. :beer:


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## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

The thing that strikes me with a lot of the courses is the time spent on. It is 4 months of solid gear use and training/eating and that is a significant amount of time especially for someone who's just started training (I am right you were the guy that just started training again?). For example when I started training hard and eating more in January I was 12st dead on and 4 months later I was 12'10 and I was training natty so the early gains can come quick natty. That's the only reason I would never recommend using AAS until you have atleast got some good early gains because you really can gain alot at the start and I've realised that now.

Having said that your trap development is ridiculous and they look huge in the after pic but chest/arms don't look that great in my opinion for someone who's put on 2 stone from the before pic. Just my 2 pence an that!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

first off mate well done on having the balls to put up pics of yourself and your progress. sounds like your training and diet was decent so the rest would have been determined by genetics and that you cant control.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

ricky23 said:


> first off mate well done on having the balls to put up pics of yourself and your progress. sounds like your training and diet was decent so the rest would have been determined by genetics and that you cant control.


What makes you think his diet and training was on point? He didn't even mention them. You are doing something wrong to make these kind of gains on that cycle. Definitely.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

niall01 said:


> What makes you think his diet and training was on point? He didn't even mention them. You are doing something wrong to make these kind of gains on that cycle. Definitely.


4-5000kcals he mentioned and i said it SOUNDS like they was decent. when fckin when did i say they were on point??!!!

learn to fckin read


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

ricky23 said:


> 4-5000kcals he mentioned and i said it SOUNDS like they was decent. when fckin when did i say they were on point??!!!
> 
> learn to fckin read


Yeah thats all he mentioned about his diet. No mention of training. You said they SOUND decent, but I don't know how you can infer that when they aren't even mentioned other than total calories. Don't be so angry/rude in reply to an reasonable question.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

niall01 said:


> Yeah thats all he mentioned about his diet. No mention of training. You said they SOUND decent, but I don't know how you can infer that when they aren't even mentioned other than total calories. Don't be so angry/rude in reply to an reasonable question.


to be fair i was assumptious about his training and diet and i apologise if i came across rude just felt that you did too in your post. and tbh im not convinced you're in a position to be criticising anyone.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

i just cant believe the amount of grief everyone is giving him for posting up a couple of pics and trying to report his progress. not once has anyone asked what his diet and training was like instead oh you gained fat and water not muscle!!

but one a fat fck loses a couple of pounds people are all over him congratulating him!!


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

ricky23 said:


> i just cant believe the amount of grief everyone is giving him for posting up a couple of pics and trying to report his progress. not once has anyone asked what his diet and training was like instead oh you gained fat and water not muscle!!
> 
> but one a fat fck loses a couple of pounds people are all over him congratulating him!!


I'm not trying to criticise him to be a dick, just to say that I think he needs to find out what went wrong in his cycle. I think by posting the phots he was looking for constructive feedback. Check my posts, none of them are abusive they are all attempting to be constructive.

I too didn't mean to come across rude. I don't know why you think I amn't in a position to offer advice, however I don't really want to get personal.

As for the "fat fvck" maybe people are congratulating him because he actually made a huge effort over a number of years and succeeded in totally recomping his body in a positive way. Not really comparable to a 16 week steroid course with minor gains is it?


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Toby1 said:


> Yawn. What were you saying?


I agree with hasman tbh he wasnt in a position to start a course, no where near his natural peak imo

each to their own i guess

OP you look better than before so fair play


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## paddyrr3 (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes fair play to having the balls to post your pics up and you have made some gains but at the cost of bloat and water.

Out of interest did you use a an AI during your cycle? I have recently ran a similar cycle used an AI and kept my diet clean as fook, results were an increase of 8lbs no water no bloat and I actually leaned out(carb cycling) lost nearly 2 inch off my waist.

I think what people are trying to say

, is that you do not have to put lots of fat and water on to achieve a bulk up as it's bloody hard work getting it off again. Maybe go for a lean bulk next time as a few pounds actual muscle mass increase as opposed to 30lbs of muscle/fat/water cannot be sniffed at and there's no need to cut post cycle.

Any way good luck and I hope I've been constructive as I have no intention in flaming your post.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

The pictures are not taken the same as his shoulder is dropped down on the before and raised on the after giving a bigger illusion of trap development.

Yes you have made some gains mate and for that 'well done' but you could of had much better gains.

Maybe take a look at your diet for next time and get even better results on your next course.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

niall01 said:


> I'm not trying to criticise him to be a dick, just to say that I think he needs to find out what went wrong in his cycle. I think by posting the phots he was looking for constructive feedback. Check my posts, none of them are abusive they are all attempting to be constructive.
> 
> I too didn't mean to come across rude. I don't know why you think I amn't in a position to offer advice, however I don't really want to get personal.
> 
> *As for the "fat fvck" maybe people are congratulating him because he actually made a huge effort over a number of years and succeeded in totally recomping his body in a positive way. Not really comparable to a 16 week steroid course with minor gains is it?*


*
*

any person who dedicates their time to improve themselves will always get respect from me so yes to me its very comparable.


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2011)

i just think its easier for a person on the brink of obesity to put down their kfc bucket than it is for someone to risk their bodies by injecting exogenous hormones into their bodies


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

ricky23 said:


> i just think its easier for a person on the brink of obesity to put down their kfc bucket than it is for someone to risk their bodies by injecting exogenous hormones into their bodies


I agree.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

OP what was your actual diet and training routine?


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

Rocho said:


> Why not take it on board?? because you dont like it??
> 
> Im not going to kiss your ar$e and tell you how well you have done, when the results from them kind of doses are not very good!?
> 
> ...


You think that telling me i mights as well eat mcds and kebabs is constuctive criticism?


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

I think its only fair i post some pics up from better angles as i personally belive my bf went from around 14% to around 18%. I can see where people are coming from as i do look a lot "fatter" in the after pic probably as it was taken at at the end of the day just after a meal. Ill get some new pics posted tonight. As for calling me a fat fcuk thats a bit ott!!! To55er.


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## shinobi_85 (Feb 20, 2011)

shoulders deffo come up, but am personally dissappinted that the arms didnt get the same results as delts. its best to post more angles, and if u have any leg photos aswell, because really we can only see 50% of it (if that even). it might have been a good idea to train to a natural peak first before going on cycle, not sure though,but say if u had worked natural for a year and got that after pic look then hit the cycle, maybe u would have been a lot bigger.


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

omg thats immense, your genetics seam good as well


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

new pics added on page 1. Fat fcuk???


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## WallsOfJericho (Apr 4, 2009)

young-pup said:


> new pics added on page 1. Fat fcuk???


Its just THAT TAN giving the illusion of fat, if your front was tanned, your pecs would stand out more and everything would look 100 times better.


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## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

Cam't see you before pics...


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## DarkTranquility (Jul 30, 2010)

Before pics now gone... want to see what all the fuss is about!


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## Mr White (Feb 8, 2009)

Looking better on new pic mate.

Take some duretic and prove em that they are all wrong


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

pics sorted


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

young-pup said:


> You think that telling me i mights as well eat mcds and kebabs is constuctive criticism?


Your very selective with your reading aren't you!?!

Read the quote again!?!

Anyway i doubt you will take anyone's advice, so iv nothing more to say.


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