# Where to start? (seeking guidance)



## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

Hello all,

Very new to this whole scene, so was hoping for some guidence, from you experienced folk.

I'm 20 and have just taken up martial arts again but want to take it more seriously this time around. I'm 6ft and am very light at 12st, also have a bit of a flabby torso, but very skinny limbs. Random weight distribution I know, lol. Dispite this im quite cardiovascular y fit, try to run about 4 miles every other day, with plenty of sports during the week (Squash, Tennis, Cycling). I think what lets me down is my diet 

I have some gym experience (i.e i've been before a few times) but never with any guidance so just did bits and pieces.

I'm looking for a routine that builds strength with a side effect of bulk (rather than the other way round). I also want to tone up my mid section, and get rid of my little belly  .

Diet wise, I can't really do this 6 times a day deal, so recommendations for meals at 3 times a day would be great. (what about supplements etc)?

Could visit the gym up to 4 times a week, for about 1.5hr sessions ideally.

Sorry for the long post, has anyone got any ideas ?

Thanks for any advice


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

I'm banned from making my suggestion. 

Oh well.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

hello mate .

You will find lots of help on this board, try http://www.regimenx.com/ for a great, proven eating, training/suppliment plan! :bounce:

(Please don't ban me for spamming)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I for sure would incourperate some weigh/restance training here.

Restance training is awesome for losing weight and changing where the size on the body goes.

Bacic compound exercise would be my first place I would start.

Second would be to look around in the diet forum and get some ideas on your diet.

Or you can post you diet up here and we can have a look at it for some constructive criticism.

you will get there but it takes one step at a time and the first step is your first post..

*Welcome to the board mate!!!!*


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

well I'm a student so my diet is awful, and is subject to complete change. As for weight/resistance/compound i'll have a look around for that.

But as far as diet goes, I'm looking for some sort of list of meals, that are recommended. Or combinations/anything really lol.

Cheers for the welcome


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

right geezer first off welcome!!

Hackskii mentioned compounds......

bench press

military press

Squats

Deadlift

They are the main 4 lift u can build a monster body just from doin those lift imo..they are called compound as they involve many muscles for each one.... start of on these then slide in isolation exercises once u get more clued up in the gym....

post ur diet up and we'll see what we can do mate...

DB


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

OK well you asked for it  This is a typical week (by no means the best or worst)

I've tried to be as honest as possible, as theres no point in cheating myself.

Sunday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - usually a sandwich

Dinner - Typical Sunday roast

Monday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - 2 poached eggs on 2 pieces of toast

Dinner - Chicken curry (home made, from fresh meat (butchers))

Tuesday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - Grilled bacon sandwich

Dinner - 8oz Rump steak + chips + peas (from the pub)

Wednesday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - 2 poached eggs on 2 pieces of toast

Dinner - Pork chop from butchers with baked potato and veggies

Thursday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - Sandwich of some variety from the shop

Dinner - spaghetti bolognaise

Friday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - 2 poached eggs on 2 pieces of toast

Dinner - Chicken pie (Iceland jobby) + veggies + baked potato

Saturday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - Baked beans on toast, 3 slices

Dinner - A pizza of some variety

I drink lots of water thoughout the day, and occasionaly eat the odd bit of fruit here and there.

What you think ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

*Add a protein here and a good fat*

Lunch - usually a sandwich

*Make sure there is enough protein in this sandwich and add a good fat*

Dinner - Typical Sunday roast

*This is ok if it is vegetables and some protein in the roast.*

You need to eat a protein with each of these meals (all meals).

Couple of caps of fish oils would be a good idea with the meals as well.

Avacado on that sandwich would be ok.

Nuts to snack on.

Lets look at Saturday as an example:

Saturday

Breakfast - Porridge + Glass of juice

Lunch - Baked beans on toast, 3 slices

Dinner - A pizza of some variety

Breakfast has very little protein in it.

Lunch has some protein but mostly carbs and some fiber, very little protein in this too.

Dinner is mostly carbs and fats with a little protein in it.

Toss some whey protein in your oats.

Eat a chicken breast and drop a piece of bread for that lunch.

Dinner, eat some meat with that pizza or just load it up with meatballs.


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

yeah defo I know its bad. I'm looking for sorting it completely. Now I'm finishing uni I have more time to organise proper meals etc.

A complete overhaul wouldn't be going to far IMO.

Cheers

Chris


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## jason wicker (Mar 27, 2005)

JamesBeginner said:


> OK well you asked for it  This is a typical week (by no means the best or worst)
> 
> I've tried to be as honest as possible, as theres no point in cheating myself.
> 
> ...


 HELLO LOOKED AT SOME OF YOUR DIET,ITS OK GETTING ADVICE,THE Q I NEED TO NO IS YOUR WEIGHT,R U SKINNY/FAT,MUSCLUAR,THEN WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO START SOME WHERE, JASON WICKER IFBB PRO,


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

> I'm 6ft and am very light at 12st, also have a bit of a flabby torso, but very skinny limbs. Random weight distribution I know, lol


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## NikiE (Feb 23, 2005)

WELCOME!!!! You have certainly come to the right place for advise....these guys know thier stuff...as for me?? Well i dont really know what i am here for!! LOL


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

NikiE said:


> Well i dont really know what i am here for!! LOL


u said it


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## NikiE (Feb 23, 2005)

dirty barry said:


> u said it


Cheers chick......LOL


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## NikiE (Feb 23, 2005)

dirty barry said:


> u said it


You'd be lost without me really though wouldnt you?? Nobody to take the p**s out of!! LOL


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

hey bro welcome to the board, enjoy yourself


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

cheers for the welcome guys.

OK couple of questions then.

adding protein to my diet: is there risk that this will just become fat? (as described origionally I have a little big a flabby torso, so i kinda want to tone that, and build my arms and legs up.

As far a training should I go for say 5 sets of to a weight to failure (approx 10-15 reps), or should i aim for lower or higher reps ?

Lastly I've been reading around it seams to be a good idea do do a 3 day split. so say I train do weight work on Mon, Wed, Friday, where shall I put my cardio work (running that is) also do I maintain protein intake even on days where I'm not doing cardio or weights ?

Once I know the answers to these questions, I'll try and make a routine, and post it so you pro's can rip it apart 

Cheers guys,

James


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

> adding protein to my diet: is there risk that this will just become fat?


Very unlikey if you are in training my friend. Don't be afraid to eat more, just make sure the food you are consuming is of good quality. A diet high in protein is very important when in training, at your weight I would shoot for at least 180g a day. This will be very hard to get in 3 meals so you must learn to eat around 6 times a day. I know what it is like bro, I have been through uni and it is not easy, especially being skint most of the time, buy and cook things in bulk and freeze it for storage, then just bang it in the microwave....

*Diet*

Stay away from simple sugars (chocolate, sweets etc) and refined carbs (white bread, white/basmati rice etc) these types of carbs are absorbed very easily with very little need for breakdown which usually ends in fat storage. Choose wholemeal alternatives (complex carbs) which as less processed will take more absorbing by your body which leads to a slower and more usable release of energy...

Also make sure you are consuming enough water, this is very important as muscles almost entirely consist of water, about 3-4 litres a day should be enough.

*Training*

As you have said a 3 day split is best, incorporate the big 3 lifts into each session (bench press, squat, deadlift) these 'compound' exercises use a large number of muscle groups and will have a positive effect on you metabolism and natural testosterone and Growth Hormone levels.

Consider something like this:

Monday: Chest + Biceps

Wednesday: Legs + Triceps

Friday: Back + Shoulders

Start off with 8-12 reps of 3-4 sets, once you feel confident in your strength and technique you can move on to heavier reps of around 6-8.

$0.02

The very best of luck and welcome to the board.

Jock


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

what i mean is, should i be pushing to until I simply cannot do any more ? ie, 10 reps where the last two require me to grit my teeth ? (I've done some weight stuff before and thats what I've done before, and always try to squeze the last bit of life out my muscles) ?

Thanks again people


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

JamesBeginner said:


> what i mean is, should i be pushing to until I simply cannot do any more ? ie, 10 reps where the last two require me to grit my teeth ? (I've done some weight stuff before and thats what I've done before, and always try to squeze the last bit of life out my muscles) ?
> 
> Thanks again people


Training to failure is very hard on recovery.

If you do 1-2 sets total, then yes, you need to go to failure or beyond.

If you plan on doing a marathon workout, then don't even flirt with failure, or you'll go nowhere fast.


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

big said:


> failure or beyond.


I have noticed that, from experience. If I did say 5 sets of wide arm push-ups with 3 mins rest between sets to complete failure, I would ache for about 3 days.

^^ I know this is prob not the right thing to do, but hey thats why I'm here.

Should I perhaps do 3 sets of 10-12 then the last set to failure? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick ?

Many Thanks


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

*Great post Jock*

For me myself, I like to get good and warmed up then I do just one set per exercise to failure.

Yes this is where I grit my teeth to get that last rep. I dont do forced reps, drop sets, negatives either.

I have gotten alot stronger from doing this type of routine.

But then again, some days, I just dont feel like pushing it and going to failure. I dont know if it is from not enough sleep, diet, stress, or just am really distracted. On these days I do more sets but just kindof get a pump and go home.

This is ok too.

Listen to your body.

If you are sore for many days then this might be an indication of overtraining.

The more you train the body will get used to that lift.

Change the routine when you get stale.

The protein wont make you fat if you reduce the amount of carbs to equal the amount of protein.

In fact you are supplying the muscle with the ability to rebuild itself.

Protein can help slow down the absorption of the carbohydrate you just ate, Hence lowering the impact of spiking the blood sugars and in a sense lowering the GI of that carb.

It takes 3500 calories to gain or lose one pound of bodyweight.

The requirement for fuel is greater with muscle than fat.

Muscle needs fuel, fat is fuel whether stored or injested.

So if you gain muscle you in effect will need more food to supply that muscle with fuel. This gives the body the ability to lose weight without dieting. Might take some time but as your shoulders and chest grow your stomach will appear smaller, kindof like a taper if you will.

For fat loss dieting is key.

For muscle growth kiet is also key.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

JamesBeginner said:


> I have noticed that, from experience. If I did say 5 sets of wide arm push-ups with 3 mins rest between sets to complete failure, I would ache for about 3 days.
> 
> ^^ I know this is prob not the right thing to do, but hey thats why I'm here.
> 
> ...


Yes, you could do. Experiment and find what works for you. If your strength is going up each session, then you're doing fine. If it's not, then something's wrong.

I use a mixture myself. Most of my gaining comes from intense low-volume progressive resistance compound-only phases though.


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

Wow you guys really know your stuff.

So where should I tie in my running, as I want to keep that up. (assuming a 3 day split over mon-wed-friday as Jock described. ?

Last question then I'm going to get planning my routine 

Thanks again

James


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

JamesBeginner said:


> Wow you guys really know your stuff.
> 
> So where should I tie in my running, as I want to keep that up. (assuming a 3 day split over mon-wed-friday as Jock described. ?
> 
> ...


Do cardio/running on non-lifting days. If you need to do cardio on your workout days for whatever reason, do it at a time different to your lifting (e.g. cardio first thing, lift in the evening).

Remember that your joints will take a bashing from running and weights. Try to run on softer surfaces like grass if possible.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

big said:


> If you do 1-2 sets total, then yes, you need to go to failure or beyond.
> 
> .


I think that true for experienced lifters big....(so in a couple of years big...u'll be ok with a routine like that.... 

But for a novice i think more sets are required to achive the same stumulations as novices dont have the mind control to put high intensity into each that comes with experience imo :bounce:


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

dirty barry said:


> But for a novice i think more sets are required to achive the same stumulations as novices dont have the mind control to put high intensity into each that comes with experience imo :bounce:


I KNEW there was a reason why you do lots of sets!


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

big said:


> I KNEW there was a reason why you do lots of sets!


Such a pi5s poor come back...u cant insult me the same insult i gave u!!!

dissapointed


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

dirty barry said:


> Such a pi5s poor come back...u cant insult me the same insult i gave u!!!
> 
> dissapointed


Well I felt bad for you. You've already been owned pretty badly today:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showpost.php?p=86632&postcount=13


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

big said:


> Well I felt bad for you. You've already been owned pretty badly today:
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showpost.php?p=86632&postcount=13


oh it needs 2 of u old timers to bring this ripe machine down!!! pair of.....


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

dirty barry said:


> oh it needs 2 of u old timers to bring this ripe machine down!!! pair of.....


We all regularly insult you on here. It's just that you don't understand most of the insults


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

Thanks for the great info (and banter lol  )

So lets say I start with this routine, using the bench press, military press, Squats, Deadlift. Which ones do which groups as some do both, anyone mind listing some that I could do that conform to the below routine. I would like to include pushups and chin ups somewhere in there if possible, as I funnily enough enjoy em  ). Also you mention whey protein (should I order some of that then, and shakes (no idea where to start there))

Monday: Chest + Biceps

Wednesday: Legs + Triceps

Friday: Back + Shoulders

Thanks again,


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## Timmy Smooth (Nov 24, 2004)

BENCH PRESS - predominantly chest, with front delts and triceps involved, too.

MILITARY PRESS - predominantly deltoids (shoulders), with triceps.

SQUATS - predominantly thighs: quads, glutes (ass), hamstrings, with spinae erectors (lower back), calves and abdominals supporting your trunk.

DEADLIFT - predominantly back. Similar muscle groups utilised as in squats. However, your traps, delts, rhomboids and lats have a greater role, along with the muscles in your forearms as you grip the bar.

Chins would be an ideal addition to help target your lats - the big, fan-shaped muscles of your back. Push-ups, do you mean press-ups? These would go with your chest day, perheaps at the end to fatigue the muscles. iIf you have access to a fitball. you could try performing them with your feet on the ball to develop the exercise. It'll be harder and you will incorporate your abs more.

As fore supplements - well everyone here will probably tell you to get the diet 100% first, and you've had some pretty good suggestions for that. Whey protein would be used after training because it has the quickest release time of all the protein types, so it gets to your cells quicker.

Hope this was useful.


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## JamesBeginner (Apr 14, 2005)

very helpful thanks a lot, I'll get planning a routine then  .


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