# leangains diet?



## Little_Jay

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

anyone tried this? looks to easy 3 big meals a day, pretty much anythin as long as high protein?


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## Jim78

Im tempted to try it, I can see the logic to what he says, and plenty seem to get results...


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## Little_Jay

exactly mate, im going to give it a go when am cutting in about 3 months, seems to good to be true though...


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## Brotein

Been on this since October last year, very good results with it and it makes life so much easier not stressing over meal times etc, any questions shoot!


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## Jim78

scouse_jay said:


> exactly mate, im going to give it a go when am cutting in about 3 months, seems to good to be true though...


Only one way to find out mate, will be interested to see the results, Ive started a cut but opted for a keto style, I did give this some consideration.

What are the meals meant to be like? only thing I couldn't really find much about on it...


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## Jim78

Brotein said:


> Been on this since October last year, very good results with it and it makes life so much easier not stressing over meal times etc, any questions shoot!


Nice one dude, would you be able to outline some daily examples of your eating? as an example...


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## Brotein

Jim78 said:


> Nice one dude, would you be able to outline some daily examples of your eating? as an example...


My feeding window is always 12pm-8pm, If I am doing fasted training in the morning then my first meal will be at 12pm, and it will be my largest meal, then I may have another in the afternoon, then one more before 8pm, then I fast again till 12pm the next day.


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## Jim78

Brotein said:


> My feeding window is always 12pm-8pm, If I am doing fasted training in the morning then my first meal will be at 12pm, and it will be my largest meal, then I may have another in the afternoon, then one more before 8pm, then I fast again till 12pm the next day.


Is the diet still very clean or can you be a little more relaxed about what you eat? what would a meal be for instance? maybe steak/pots/veg etc?


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## Brotein

Jim78 said:


> Is the diet still very clean or can you be a little more relaxed about what you eat? what would a meal be for instance? maybe steak/pots/veg etc?


You just eat what you would normally eat on your diet, just inside the feeding window.

Martin (creator of it) recommends high carbs low fat on workout days and low carb moderate fat on rest days, but my personal preference is to keep low fat on all my days it's just how I prefer to eat.

I don't do cardio either and have lost weight easily with this diet.


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## Little_Jay

sounds good to me! pmd you mate with a few questions if you dont mind


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## hezzer321uk

I too am very interested in this as its not always easy to eat when your at work, has anyone seen or got an example meal plan for each of the 3 meals as i cant seem to find any anywhere?


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## Brotein

hezzer321uk said:


> I too am very interested in this as its not always easy to eat when your at work, has anyone seen or got an example meal plan for each of the 3 meals as i cant seem to find any anywhere?


It is not a diet, just a lifestyle so that's why you won't find one around. You can eat what you would normally eat but just fit it in to 8 hours instead of throughout the day, but to try help you here's what I would eat on a workout day

My feeding window is 12pm-8pm, I would train at 11am so I can have my big meal when I get home, your biggest meal should be your POST workout meal, or on a day off, your first meal of the day.

11am workout (10grams BCAA before hand)

12pm (breaking the fast) - 20-30g whey protein after my workout, 4-500g extra lean beef mince, 150g wholewheat pasta, 200g ragu tomato sauce, this works out to be around 1500 calories

I may have another small meal consisting of a few hundred calories in the afternoon, then before 8 o clock I will have a casein shake or cottage cheese and usually some oats.


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## Fatstuff

Brotein said:


> It is not a diet, just a lifestyle so that's why you won't find one around. You can eat what you would normally eat but just fit it in to 8 hours instead of throughout the day, but to try help you here's what I would eat on a workout day
> 
> My feeding window is 12pm-8pm, I would train at 11am so I can have my big meal when I get home, your biggest meal should be your POST workout meal, or on a day off, your first meal of the day.
> 
> 11am workout (10grams BCAA before hand)
> 
> 12pm (breaking the fast) - 20-30g whey protein after my workout, 4-500g extra lean beef mince, 150g wholewheat pasta, 200g ragu tomato sauce, this works out to be around 1500 calories
> 
> I may have another small meal consisting of a few hundred calories in the afternoon, then before 8 o clock I will have a casein shake or cottage cheese and usually some oats.


See I approach it slightly different to brotein. Similar concept but I workout evening usually 6 30 (depending what I'm working) I break the fast with around 35% of my calories at half 11ish then around 4 o clock I have small snack around 10% train at 6:00, whey pwo then huge meal to finish (55% including shake) that suits me because I go to bed full. Never that hungry in mornin anyway!


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## Brotein

I tried fasted training a few weeks ago and it is amazing, most people who do never go back to fed training, If I could train this way all the time I would do, but sometimes due to work I can't and then I would follow one of the other approaches


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## Fatstuff

Brotein said:


> I tried fasted training a few weeks ago and it is amazing, most people who do never go back to fed training, If I could train this way all the time I would do, but sometimes due to work I can't and then I would follow one of the other approaches


To be fair I work shifts and sometimes i have to train fasted. Don't notice a difference and my lifts still been going up fasted or not which really p1sses on everyones chips who state that u need to eat every few hours


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## Jim78

Brotein said:


> I tried fasted training a few weeks ago and it is amazing, most people who do never go back to fed training, If I could train this way all the time I would do, but sometimes due to work I can't and then I would follow one of the other approaches


without being funny...what was so amazing about it?


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## Brotein

I Feel stronger and more energetic during my fasted workouts, it also has more benefits such as improved metabolic performance, read Martins blog post on the subject here http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html


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## Jim78

Brotein said:


> I Feel stronger and more energetic during my fasted workouts, it also has more benefits such as improved metabolic performance, read Martins blog post on the subject here http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html


good stuff mate


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## powerhousepeter

brotein how would this work if my training time is 5.00? what time would the fast be?


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## Brotein

powerhousepeter said:


> brotein how would this work if my training time is 5.00? what time would the fast be?


You can change the feeding window to anything you like, you could maybe try something like 2-10 or 3-11, so your first meal would be around 20-25% of your daily calorie intake, then you'd have the remaining calories after your workout


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## powerhousepeter

i see so i would have a meal pre wrk out, post wrk out, and then another meal before bed? sounds ideal really for me. so does your diet still have a full makro break down?


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## Brotein

powerhousepeter said:


> i see so i would have a meal pre wrk out, post wrk out, and then another meal before bed? sounds ideal really for me. so does your diet still have a full makro break down?


the great thing about this lifestyle is you can adjust it to suit your needs, as long as you stick to a couple of rules

16 hour fast - 8 hour feed

if you train fasted - take 10g bcaa's before

water/coffee/diet sodas only thing to be taken in fasting period

My diet macros are 50% carbs, 30% protein and 20% fat, thats just the guidelines they do tend to waver about by a few % though.


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## powerhousepeter

thanx mate, just what ive been looking for, planning a cut to start april, and im going to do more research and try this. cheers


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## Ash1981

so is this more for when someone wants to cut fat away? and try and build abit of muscle?

also i work out at 6.45am before work. what would i do, eat between 8 and 6?


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## Brotein

There are people who also bulk on this, take a look at this guys progress when he used leangains to bulk, I will be using this approach indefinite for the rest of my time (hopefully  )

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=131057123

@ ash: you could do that if it would suit you, like I said earlier choose the 8 hour feeding window to suit your needs.


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## Little_Jay

deffo going to give this a go! i train at around 6pm usally, so would it be best for small meal at about 12ish, then another small meal about half 4ish, then big meal about half 7 after traning, then fast?


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## Brotein

scouse_jay said:


> deffo going to give this a go! i train at around 6pm usally, so would it be best for small meal at about 12ish, then another small meal about half 4ish, then big meal about half 7 after traning, then fast?


Yeah it would seem the following approach would suit you fine,

12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.

4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.

8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).


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## Little_Jay

thanks mate, nice one for help as ever, how you fiding it so far in terms of body fat and size?


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## Fatstuff

ash1981 said:


> so is this more for when someone wants to cut fat away? and try and build abit of muscle?
> 
> also i work out at 6.45am before work. what would i do, eat between 8 and 6?


If u wanted to not start your feeding window too early, u could have 10g bcaa while trainin, 10g pwo then 10g 2 hours later, then feed between 11 and 7, having your largest meal first


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## Brotein

scouse_jay said:


> thanks mate, nice one for help as ever, how you fiding it so far in terms of body fat and size?


I am weighing in at a steady 170lbs now so dropped around 25lbs in total from October so that's nearly an average of 2lbs a week, but then there was likely anywhere up to 10lbs of water weight so I think I am steady on a 1lb loss a week, will be posting some pictures tomorrow when I have better lighting in the morning.


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## Rekless

like the look of this.

Going to give this a run after i'm back from Vietnam!


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## kaos_nw

anyone that is currently IF'ing - I just want to ask if its hard to get into? as im used to eating as soon as I wake up now and eating small meals every couple of hours, just wondering if you found the transition into eating for only 8 hours a day hard to get into? I can see the first couple of days being a killer as im STARVING in the mornings!


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## henleys

kaos_nw said:


> anyone that is currently IF'ing - I just want to ask if its hard to get into? as im used to eating as soon as I wake up now and eating small meals every couple of hours, just wondering if you found the transition into eating for only 8 hours a day hard to get into? I can see the first couple of days being a killer as im STARVING in the mornings!


That is exactly the IF's i have, within 3 hours of eating i'm starving lol.

but having said that if eating small and frequent is myth and doesn't staple blood sugars it's easier to eat 3 meals.


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## kaos_nw

yea true, but with me its hard as i dont have a big appatite! e.g. a pitta bread + meat + salad is typical of what I will eat and then ill eat another small thing in about 3ish hours! I dont believe eating smallers/regularly is better than eating in a smaller time window. Its just that it suits me alot better - I dont think I could handle eating all my calories over 3 meals tbh!


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## stuboy

Looks like a good plan. I do fasted workouts on a morning and find it hard to eat little and often so this would be good for me.


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## craftybutcher

I'd like to do this but I don't have a typical routine day because of work. My missus will not cook two meals i.e. one for me and one for here and the kids so the evening meal would normally be the heaviest and this wouldnt be a problem except I train at lunchtim )


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## SeBb0

kaos_nw said:


> anyone that is currently IF'ing - I just want to ask if its hard to get into? as im used to eating as soon as I wake up now and eating small meals every couple of hours, just wondering if you found the transition into eating for only 8 hours a day hard to get into? I can see the first couple of days being a killer as im STARVING in the mornings!


been IF'ing for alittle over 2 months & i found it very easy to get into, like 'why have not been eating like this?!' but then again i wasent eating every 3 hours or so! i found that harder tbh lol.. i would say commit to a 8 week period & you will most likely stick with it.. like whats been said it is a lifestyle choice.. as a result in diet change i drink lots more water & coffee which is not a bad thing atall.


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## Fatstuff

kaos_nw said:


> anyone that is currently IF'ing - I just want to ask if its hard to get into? as im used to eating as soon as I wake up now and eating small meals every couple of hours, just wondering if you found the transition into eating for only 8 hours a day hard to get into? I can see the first couple of days being a killer as im STARVING in the mornings!


 to be fair mate, martin berkhan suggests if u havent got a big appetite its not for you. I find my appetite is what lets me down when i try to eat small meals throughout the day, as far as being hungry in the mornin - you are allowed a black coffee with artifical sweetener and tiny splash of milk if u dont drink lots of cups. That curbs appetite for couple hours.


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## Fatstuff

craftybutcher said:


> I'd like to do this but I don't have a typical routine day because of work. My missus will not cook two meals i.e. one for me and one for here and the kids so the evening meal would normally be the heaviest and this wouldnt be a problem except I train at lunchtim )


I work shifts so my feeding window changes all the time, I would suggest cooking a load of chicken breasts and get some packs of uncle bens express rice (wholemeal) If u train in the afternoon break your fast with 2 (maybe 3 if ur up for it) chicken breasts and a pack of rice, get ur missus to cook u a normal dinner in evening as opposed to a large one and have a snack inbetween or even another meal depending how many calories u are eating


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## Brotein

I found the transition very easy, but it could take a week or two to fully get in to the flow of things.


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## Rekless

Whats your typicall meals look like on this Brotein, just out of curiousity?


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## predatorN

I have asked Martin to contribute here for you guys. Quick comment from me, his diet works very good. When I did it the main issue I had was overeating when I got to eat. Not so much hunger but just greed.


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## Fatstuff

Its actually good 2 see other ppl are doing it, i never heard of anyone on here doin it so i was a little worried that it was a fad that werent going to schieve anything. But so far im happy even though its only been few weeks but ive read a lot into it, and u ppl that do it have set my mind at ease that it works.


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## BillC

Looks far too much like hard work to me. Thats 16 hours a day when your body doesn't have enough nutrients to grow. ~Why do peole look for ridiculously hard ways to lose fat? Calorie deficit lose weight, calorie excess gain it.


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## craftybutcher

fatmanstan! said:


> I work shifts so my feeding window changes all the time, I would suggest cooking a load of chicken breasts and get some packs of uncle bens express rice (wholemeal) If u train in the afternoon break your fast with 2 (maybe 3 if ur up for it) chicken breasts and a pack of rice, get ur missus to cook u a normal dinner in evening as opposed to a large one and have a snack inbetween or even another meal depending how many calories u are eating


Is there a cheaper option than the UB rice


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## Fatstuff

craftybutcher said:


> Is there a cheaper option than the UB rice


yeah cook normal wholegrain rice lol, just takes longer than 2 mins in microwave. just thinking of convenience as u dont sound like the cooking type lol


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## pipebomb

I have been doing this type of diet for just over 4 weeks and have seen some good results.

Tbh i find it just as effective as keto, and allot easier to follow. I have lost a steady 2 pounds a week

and seem to be holding onto muscle better. overall im happy with the lean-gains type diet it works well for me

personally, however it may not be for everyone.


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## Jim78

BillC said:


> Looks far too much like hard work to me. Thats 16 hours a day when your body doesn't have enough nutrients to grow. ~Why do peole look for ridiculously hard ways to lose fat? Calorie deficit lose weight, calorie excess gain it.


This bit will make you laugh then......

People can actually bulk on this plan too, obviously lean bulk.

Im always pessimistic and agree with what you say ie; no nutrients in the body for long periods, but when you have a THOROUGH look on the site, you will realise that it DOES get results, I for one cannot explain, maybe the body is like a sponge after fasting and uses up every nutrient you throw at it?

Sometime old habits die hard but there are a few new exciting ways to diet/lean gain and get results, I keep an open mind nowadays instead


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## Sharp161

Looks pretty interesting i may give this a go, thanks for the link.


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## henleys

is this no different from a normal cut instead of having 6 meals you have 3 in an 8 hour window, then u don't eat until 16 hours have passed.

other thn that is there any signnificant difference between this and a small and frequent diet, because i've read most of the site and i'm struggling to find anything:confused1:

does everything else work in the same concept?


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## Little_Jay

very intresting debate, im going to have to try it though, sounds suited to me


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## craigdi

i eat around 3000cals a day over 6 meals,if i try this do i have to eat 3000 over 3 meals?


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## Fatstuff

henleys said:


> is this no different from a normal cut instead of having 6 meals you have 3 in an 8 hour window, then u don't eat until 16 hours have passed.
> 
> other thn that is there any signnificant difference between this and a small and frequent diet, because i've read most of the site and i'm struggling to find anything:confused1:
> 
> does everything else work in the same concept?


It's basically saying u dont NEED 6 meals and that supplement companies have got a lot to do with that myth to sell shakes and meal replacement products. There is benefits in fasting like increased energy, that's why fasted training is allowed even recommended. There is good evidence on his site and I thought sod it. Won't know till I try!


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## Fatstuff

craigdi said:


> i eat around 3000cals a day over 6 meals,if i try this do i have to eat 3000 over 3 meals?


Up to you, I think the protocol Is to not eat way over maintenance, just eat slightly over maintenance but eat most of your calories post workout!


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## Brotein

craigdi said:


> i eat around 3000cals a day over 6 meals,if i try this do i have to eat 3000 over 3 meals?


You can have as many meals as you want inside of the 8 hour window, just make the post workout meal the largest, some people just prefer to eat 3 large meals



Rekless said:


> Whats your typicall meals look like on this Brotein, just out of curiousity?


Something like..

Meal 1: 500g extra lean steak mince, 150g wholewheat pasta, 200g ragu sauce. 3-500ml skimmed milk + scoop of whey, thats around 1400 calories

Meal 2: Something like chicken breast with rice or potatoes and veg

Meal 3: Possibly cottage cheese and 30g casein with skimmed milk and a bowl of porridge

My diet varies each day thats basically what I ate yesterday though



predatorN said:


> I have asked Martin to contribute here for you guys. Quick comment from me, his diet works very good. When I did it the main issue I had was overeating when I got to eat. Not so much hunger but just greed.


Nice to see Predator get a mention on the Leangains website too, I always try to follow the link and buy from there 



BillC said:


> Looks far too much like hard work to me. Thats 16 hours a day when your body doesn't have enough nutrients to grow. ~Why do peole look for ridiculously hard ways to lose fat? Calorie deficit lose weight, calorie excess gain it.


It is actually ridiculously easy, you are probably asleep 7-10 hours of it so when you think of it it's 3 hours before and after sleep..


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## henleys

i deffinately want to try it i was just seeing if there was any significant difference other than small and frequent and big for 8 hours.


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## Guest

no mate, u can even eat small and frequent in that 8 hour period if you want.

or eat one giant meal.

point is you eat in that period.

it works well, I don't follow all his advice but I did try it, and it made me realise 6 small meals is a pain in the ass and im never quite satisfied, now i eat 3-4 big meals every day, still get the same results and im satisfied


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## henleys

ALR said:


> no mate, u can even eat small and frequent in that 8 hour period if you want.
> 
> or eat one giant meal.
> 
> point is you eat in that period.
> 
> it works well, I don't follow all his advice but I did try it, and it made me realise 6 small meals is a pain in the ass and im never quite satisfied, now i eat 3-4 big meals every day, still get the same results and im satisfied


yer sorry i do understand that, only reason i quote 3 all the time is because thats the way i would prefer to do it. 3 meals always been the way i loved to eat, with 6-7 small meals and shakes inbetween i always feels starving lol.


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## Guest

I'm the same, what following his diet taught me is that 3 meals is just as good as 6, but im happier. lol


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## Little_Jay

so u can eat what u want in the feed bit aslong as it makes your calories, and surely most be heavy in protein?


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## Ninja

i would die from starvation on this protocol...so i guess it's not for me ,even on keto when i'm in ketosis i'm starving.


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## craigdi

ok i train at 14.30 so i could start eating say 12.00 my first meal(800cals)my 2nd (1400cals) after training and the last one 19.30(800cals)have i got this right?


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## Little_Jay

yes crai thats right! i train at about 6pm so i would have meal one about 12.00 800 cals meal 2 about 4.00 800 cals then meal 3 about 8 1400 cals


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## henleys

my maintenance is about 2,500 so in a deficit i would need aroun 2,000 to steadily lose weight? how much do both of you weight if your gonna cut on 3,000 calories? or have i missed the point and you two want to leanbulk?


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## Brotein

scouse_jay said:


> so u can eat what u want in the feed bit aslong as it makes your calories, and surely most be heavy in protein?


No it's not like that, just as it's called Leangains doesn't mean anything will go, low fat high protein on workout days is what he recommends, low carb and higher fat on rest days


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## bayman

Some of the comments here make me laugh!

"Starved of nutrients for 16hrz!"

If you actually took the time to read up on the site as well as metabolism and digestion you'd realise digestion is a lot slower than most believe. You're still getting whatever target cals you aim for, just over less meals, so it takes longer to digest. Most of martin's work it backed up by peer reviewed journals and his results speak for themselves.


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## Brotein

bayman said:


> Some of the comments here make me laugh!
> 
> "Starved of nutrients for 16hrz!"
> 
> If you actually took the time to read up on the site as well as metabolism and digestion you'd realise digestion is a lot slower than most believe. You're still getting whatever target cals you aim for, just over less meals, so it takes longer to digest. Most of martin's work it backed up by peer reviewed journals and his results speak for themselves.


To be fair I did used to think like that too, but I am open minded and after doing some research upon on all those views were blown out the water. Some people just do not want to open their minds to new ways


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## henleys

bayman said:


> Some of the comments here make me laugh!
> 
> "Starved of nutrients for 16hrz!"
> 
> If you actually took the time to read up on the site as well as metabolism and digestion you'd realise digestion is a lot slower than most believe. You're still getting whatever target cals you aim for, just over less meals, so it takes longer to digest. Most of martin's work it backed up by peer reviewed journals and his results speak for themselves.


which is exactly why i want to give it ago.


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## Guest

The people who are knocking it without trying it would prob be very surprised if they did


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## bayman

I've been IF'ing for nigh on 24-30months since I discovered Martin's site via Lyle Mcdonald's work. Cutting on IF is very easy as you only have a smaller feeding window - so you get to eat bigger more satiating meals when you do eat. Cardio can be more productive after / during the fast too, and caffeine / stimulants work very well at appetite reduction in the fasted state. Maintaing using IF is very easy also.

Bulking is a little more trouble in the constrained window, but you can fit in a few less clean as foods as a result, one of my favourite PWO meals is a box of cereal and 1.5litres of milk...

It's not for everyone, but if you traditionally found breakfast a chore as well as rolling out the tupperwear every 2.4576hrs and like to eat big, you'll get on very well with it.


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## Fatstuff

I am enjoying it, I love feeling satisfied without feeling like I've gone over my needed calories


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## Brotein

bayman said:


> I've been IF'ing for nigh on 24-30months since I discovered Martin's site via Lyle Mcdonald's work. Cutting on IF is very easy as you only have a smaller feeding window - so you get to eat bigger more satiating meals when you do eat. Cardio can be more productive after / during the fast too, and caffeine / stimulants work very well at appetite reduction in the fasted state. Maintaing using IF is very easy also.
> 
> Bulking is a little more trouble in the constrained window, but you can fit in a few less clean as foods as a result, one of my favourite PWO meals is a box of cereal and 1.5litres of milk...
> 
> It's not for everyone, but if you traditionally found breakfast a chore as well as rolling out the tupperwear every 2.4576hrs and like to eat big, you'll get on very well with it.


Dammmmmmmm son what cereal is that? what would the macros of that be?


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## pipebomb

Copy and pasted from http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

4. Myth: Fasting tricks the body into "starvation mode".

Truth

Efficient adaptation to famine was important for survival during rough times in our evolution. Lowering metabolic rate during starvation allowed us to live longer, increasing the possibility that we might come across something to eat. Starvation literally means starvation. It doesn't mean skipping a meal not eating for 24 hours. Or not eating for three days even. The belief that meal skipping or short-term fasting causes "starvation mode" is so completely ridiculous and absurd that it makes me want to jump out the window.

Looking at the numerous studies I've read, the earliest evidence for lowered metabolic rate in response to fasting occurred after 60 hours (-8% in resting metabolic rate). Other studies show metabolic rate is not impacted until 72-96 hours have passed (George Cahill has contributed a lot on this topic).

Seemingly paradoxical, metabolic rate is actually increased in short-term fasting. For some concrete numbers, studies have shown an increase of 3.6% - 10% after 36-48 hours (Mansell PI, et al, and Zauner C, et al). This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. Epinephrine and norepinephrine (adrenaline/noradrenaline) sharpens the mind and makes us want to move around. Desirable traits that encouraged us to seek for food, or for the hunter to kill his prey, increasing survival. At some point, after several days of no eating, this benefit would confer no benefit to survival and probably would have done more harm than good; instead, an adaptation that favored conservation of energy turned out to be advantageous. Thus metabolic rate is increased in short-term fasting (up to 60 hours).

Again, I have choosen extreme examples to show how absurd the myth of "starvation mode" is - especially when you consider that the exact opposite is true in the context of how the term is thrown around.

Origin

I guess some genius read that fasting or starvation causes metabolic rate to drop and took that to mean that meal skipping, or not eating for a day or two, would cause starvation mode.

:lol: at the window bit


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## bayman

Brotein said:


> Dammmmmmmm son what cereal is that? what would the macros of that be?


Somethin like special K (i LOVE cereal), so it would work out about 250g of carbs from the cereal plus the milk macros.


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## henleys

so bayman your saying if you wanted to bulk on lean gain, you would just do big refeeds?

or something of that nature?


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## SeBb0

henleys said:


> so bayman your saying if you wanted to bulk on lean gain, you would just do big refeeds?
> 
> or something of that nature?


thats what i do .. i dont like over eating everyday so on leg days & 1 other day of the week i do refeeds & eat like a true viking! also 1 day a week i do a 20 hour fast, i am putting on the "lean" weight weekly, with strength gains, while getting to see my abs for the first time in my life.


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## bayman

henleys said:


> so bayman your saying if you wanted to bulk on lean gain, you would just do big refeeds?
> 
> or something of that nature?


Basically it's how Martin sets it up for "Leangains" / bulking with minimal fat gain.

Your off days on a bulk would be at maintenance, your lifting days is where you'd place your calorie excess, with the majority coming PWO by prioritising carbs. If you look at Martin's transformation, he documents fow he went from 170lb at 5% BF to circa 200lb with this method, gaining minimal fat along the way.


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## Brotein

henleys said:


> so bayman your saying if you wanted to bulk on lean gain, you would just do big refeeds?
> 
> or something of that nature?


If you want to bulk on leangains you just adjust your calories accordingly..


----------



## bayman

Brotein said:


> If you want to bulk on leangains you just adjust your calories accordingly..


Not quite, see above.


----------



## henleys

yer i looked into it abit, had a good read through the website but couldn't really see "leangaining" (bulking) highlighted.. will look at it properly now you mentioned it.


----------



## bayman

henleys said:


> yer i looked into it abit, had a good read through the website but couldn't really see "leangaining" (bulking) highlighted.. will look at it properly now you mentioned it.


I've read loads of Martin's stuff, so if you're struggling to find it I'll point you in the right direction.

Basically, he argues that by using acute calorie surplus PWO, you ensure more of those cals go to muscle growth and recovery than anywhere else. His methods certainly seem to work, just look at his client testimonials!


----------



## Brotein

bayman said:


> I've read loads of Martin's stuff, so if you're struggling to find it I'll point you in the right direction.
> 
> Basically, he argues that by using acute calorie surplus PWO, you ensure more of those cals go to muscle growth and recovery than anywhere else. His methods certainly seem to work, just look at his client testimonials!


What section is the 'bulking' protocol in? I have only really looked at fat loss to be honest


----------



## bayman

Brotein said:


> What section is the 'bulking' protocol in? I have only really looked at fat loss to be honest


It used to be there but I'm struggling to find it, wonder if he removed it with the switchover from his blogspot site to the .com. I'm on my phone at the mo but I'll post a link to him documenting his bulk on Lyle Mcdonalds forum when I get chance as I've book marked it.


----------



## Little_Jay

didnt think so many people would have tried it, deffo going to give it a go, i will prob use it as a cuttin diet at first and then go from there, how lon do you think i give it for a cut? but what am readin if i do it for say 12 weeks, it will probs just become a way of life wont it and i will cut/bulk/maintain on it..

what happens if say you have to eat in the fast say weekends or something? because alchol would be in my fasting time?


----------



## Rekless

scouse_jay said:


> didnt think so many people would have tried it, deffo going to give it a go, i will prob use it as a cuttin diet at first and then go from there, how lon do you think i give it for a cut? but what am readin if i do it for say 12 weeks, it will probs just become a way of life wont it and i will cut/bulk/maintain on it..
> 
> what happens if say you have to eat in the fast say weekends or something? because alchol would be in my fasting time?


If your cutting, Alcohol probably isn't your freind


----------



## pipebomb

scouse_jay said:


> what happens if say you have to eat in the fast say weekends or something? because alchol would be in my fasting time?


Have one evening a weekend off to have what you want.


----------



## bayman

It's worth sticking to a regular meal pattern due to gherlin release (hunger hormone) that becomes matched to a certain meal frequency. That is, if you always ate at 11am and now you're gnna fast instead you'd feel hungry for the first few days at 11am until gherlin release caught up with your new meal pattern. Once you do reset it though it takes a few days again to change it.

So for me, my eating window is 2pm - 10pm everyday other than Saturday, as I play sport on Sat I need to get some cals and food in before I play, even though I don't feel particulary hungry. Returning to my normal eating window on Sunday isn't a problem.

If you find the hunger pangs while you adjust to your new eating window bad, strong black coffee and chewing gum helps, but it should only be difficult for a few days like I said. If you were never a big traditional breakfast fan and like a late lunch you should find it pretty easy.


----------



## Little_Jay

yer i will have one night off a week, because i still will be drinking on the odd sat when am cutting, not going into hibernation for 12 weeks! or how ever long it takes, thats why maybe a keto with a carb up might suit me better, am just looking at all ideas for cutitng


----------



## Brotein

scouse_jay said:


> yer i will have one night off a week, because i still will be drinking on the odd sat when am cutting, not going into hibernation for 12 weeks! or how ever long it takes, thats why maybe a keto with a carb up might suit me better, am just looking at all ideas for cutitng


Sacrifices have to be made


----------



## pipebomb

scouse_jay said:


> yer i will have one night off a week, because i still will be drinking on the odd sat when am cutting, not going into hibernation for 12 weeks! or how ever long it takes, thats why maybe a keto with a carb up might suit me better, am just looking at all ideas for cutitng


Dont over-think it mate one evening a week wont hurt, unless your entering a comp or something.


----------



## Rekless

pipebomb said:


> Dont over-think it mate one evening a week wont hurt, unless your entering a comp or something.


So if your eating 12-8 (for example) 6 days a week

The one day you just eat at anytime you like? surley this is going to hinder your results.....


----------



## pipebomb

Brotein digging those abbs in your avi what % bf are you there?


----------



## pipebomb

Rekless said:


> So if your eating 12-8 (for example) 6 days a week
> 
> The one day you just eat at anytime you like? surley this is going to hinder your results.....


Mate i highly doubt an evening a week end will set you back, it hasnt for me i always hit my target for the week but hey we are all different i suppose.

Personally i feel i have to have a life too cant be letting my diet take over my life.


----------



## Brotein

Rekless said:


> So if your eating 12-8 (for example) 6 days a week
> 
> The one day you just eat at anytime you like? surley this is going to hinder your results.....


Personally I only have a cheat around every 4 weeks, the last time I ate outside of my feeding window was new years, then last Thursday I did also, If you can adjust your feeding window to allow it or fit the cheat meal in to your feeding window that's all the better



pipebomb said:


> Brotein digging those abbs in your avi what % bf are you there?


I'll go grab my calipers and have a look what it says


----------



## Rekless

no i can appreciate that, heck we all need a life (except if your doing a comp prep)

Just curoius about what other people think of this, surely it goes against the idea of the diet.

Say i go out on a Sat, grab some food at around 12pm, to get back on track i'd have to eat at 4pm-12 the next day to have the 16 hour fast, how would you get back on track?


----------



## pipebomb

I see your point mate  I eat from 10am until 6pm, what i do is, wake up sunday and just go back to it as normal by mon morning im back on track.


----------



## Brotein

pipebomb said:


> Brotein digging those abbs in your avi what % bf are you there?


Got a reading of 7%, but calipers can be up to 2-3% off so I am anywhere between 7-9%, I would say more near to 9%



Rekless said:


> no i can appreciate that, heck we all need a life (except if your doing a comp prep)
> 
> Just curoius about what other people think of this, surely it goes against the idea of the diet.
> 
> Say i go out on a Sat, grab some food at around 12pm, to get back on track i'd have to eat at 4pm-12 the next day to have the 16 hour fast, how would you get back on track?


I just begin my feeding window as usual


----------



## pipebomb

Brotein said:


> Got a reading of 7%, but calipers can be up to 2-3% off so I am anywhere between 7-9%, I would say more near to 9%
> 
> l


Looking good mate im about 11% at the moment looking to get where you are now over the next 12 weeks or so.


----------



## Little_Jay

am the same, im not going to go that comitted al be honest, one cheat every month, would make my life boring as hell and the whole point i train is to enjoy life and look better, alot of people drink at weekends and still look v gud


----------



## bayman

I think your all missing the point here. It's not specifically the fast that gives this diet it's results.

The constrained eating window gives more chance of full diet adhereance in most cases (especially cutting). The may be some theorized benefits to the fast and getting the bulk of your cals around your workout, but ultimately it's ensuring you stick to the diet where this approach wins out.

Erring from your eating window for one day won't interfere with results, neither will one day off your diet in the grand scale of things. I think the last few replies show just how much bodybuilders tend to overanalyse (how much to eat, when to eat etc), which is exactly what this sort of diet approach is meant to get rid of, as ultimately it doesn't matter!


----------



## Rekless

nice, just checking!

Thanks Bayman


----------



## Little_Jay

yer fair point bayman, i will just way up everything in about april and see what way to go its this or keto


----------



## wmullen

I've been IF'ing using a leangains based approach since early Dec and here are my observations:-

i) Why didn't I discover this way of eating 20 years ago! So easy to follow as opposed to the traditional 6 meals a day approach which is total

OBSESSION! It got to the point where I was avoiding certain social events because I knew I couldn't eat 3 hours in!

ii) Adherence is way better than any other diet I've tried. Very easy to stick to.

iii) There's more room for cheating than with traditional diets. For example I recently finished a 15 week cut and I was typically cheating 1-3 times/week

with huge meals way over my calorie limit.

iv) Very sociable diet, i.e you can fit it in with whatever social event. If you're heading to a restaurant in the evening you fast for 24hrs and 'save' all your calories for that one meal. I dieted over the xmas period and continued to lose weight, which is testament to the flexibility of IF'ing.

v) Digestion is so much better. No bloating despite eating absolutely huge meals in one sitting. I think it has to do with the 16hr+ fasting period, as the body has a chance to properly digest all the food.

vi) Allow around a week to adjust to the fasting. After that hunger is not an issue. Coffee is all you need if the hunger pangs hit.

Results:-

Managed to lose 13kg BW with no loss in strength on core exercises. (natural)

Currently beginning a lean bulk with calories in the 2500-3500 range. I have no problem eating huge meals, and in fact that is one thing which develops as you progress with IF.

So if you're considering IF what are you waiting for, give it a go! I'm sure there's nothing magical about the diet from a hormonal perspective but it is just so ridiculously easy to follow! And as my cut proved, even with 24hr fasting you will NOT lose muscle!!!!!!!


----------



## bayman

Nice feedback there.


----------



## craftybutcher

wmullen said:


> iv) Very sociable diet, i.e you can fit it in with whatever social event. If you're heading to a restaurant in the evening you fast for 24hrs and 'save' all your calories for that one meal. I dieted over the xmas period and continued to lose weight, which is testament to the flexibility of IF'ing.


The 24hours thing is a very good tip, thanks.


----------



## Little_Jay

good review mate, reps


----------



## kaos_nw

Just thought id bump this thread! I just started LG today and I must say I found the 16 hour fast quite easy!  that really shocked me!

Im planning on cutting to 10~% or under bf% and then start a recomp style slow bulk using the LG approach (20%~ over maintenance WO days, and maintenance or mainenance -20% off days)

Just wondering if anyone has any advise on my cutting plan? - my maintenance is about 2300 so im thinking of eating 1800 ED and WO 3x per week, I eat from 2pm-10pm,

Do these cals seem low enough? shall I drop them more to speed up the cut?


----------



## Rekless

i've started this too. 12 meatballs n pasta for dinner last night was great!


----------



## Fatstuff

I have been following this around 6 weeks. Am a stone lighter - still hitting pb's in the gym. not been that strict really but if I do decide to have a cheat I will only have one other meal that day - albeit a large mofo of a meal. Protein heavy. And my cheat meals are protein heavy too - kfc, mixed grill, large cod and chips. That is once a week. Also had 4 lagers on a Sunday afternoon past few weeks. That doesn't mean that I been eating sh1t everyday either before anyone decides to go ahead with it. I'm still strict 90% of the time and training hard! Recommend this lifestyle to anyone. If ur up to it- go for it and good luck


----------



## kaos_nw

fatmanstan! said:


> I have been following this around 6 weeks. Am a stone lighter - still hitting pb's in the gym. not been that strict really but if I do decide to have a cheat I will only have one other meal that day - albeit a large mofo of a meal. Protein heavy. And my cheat meals are protein heavy too - kfc, mixed grill, large cod and chips. That is once a week. Also had 4 lagers on a Sunday afternoon past few weeks. That doesn't mean that I been eating sh1t everyday either before anyone decides to go ahead with it. I'm still strict 90% of the time and training hard! Recommend this lifestyle to anyone. If ur up to it- go for it and good luck


sounds good mate! as long as protein and efa's are met, and you get some veg etc I dont see the 'Dirty' food as a problem - as long as they fit in with your calories/macros! e.g. quite a common meal on lean gains (espically PWO) is a whole box of cereal, loads of milk + whey! So some chicken etc from kfc could be fine as long as it fits with your plan IMO 

Also im surprised at how easy I found the fast! Im normally STARVING for breakfast, but I think its habit. Now I wake up and have a black coffee and im good until 2pm  . Only thing is I have been eating quite clean and am finding it hard to get my calories in! So I can see this diet being GREAT for when im cutting hard and need to drop cals real low

Also I dont get any tiredness, moodiness, fatigue etc in the fasting period - My stomach doesn't even rumble! (It used to after about 3 hours after breakfast) I would recommend this lifestyle to anyone

ETA - Bayman, did you manage to find the stuff martin wrote about LG for bulking? - I cant see it on his site nor Lyle's


----------



## Rekless

Yeah i find it hard some time to cram enough calories in.

Mainly as i workout at about 7.30 pm.

I fast until 1pm - Eat something like a large jacket potato with chilli and cheese and a banna.

6pm when i get in from work - i have 3 scoops of protein, 2 table spoons PB, 50g Oats, 250ml Milk

7.30 - work out

8.30 - After workout 250g mince, wholmeal pasta n cheese

What does everybody elses diet look like?


----------



## Rekless

Get well hungry this morning for the first time.

All i could think of was food until 1pm when i ate!


----------



## Little_Jay

still undecided on either this or keto, anyone done both? starting week today!


----------



## kaos_nw

I done keto but dont like the high dat diet, also i function perfect on carbs! IME fat loss comes down to calories not macros

so I prefer lean gains just because im not restricted, can eat BIG and what I want even when dieting, along with all the nutrient partitioning benefits, feel great during the fast and saves alot of time (no more cooking, eating all the time and carrying loads of food everywhere etc)


----------



## Rekless

I did the Anabolic Diet for the whole of January and most of Feb (high protein and fats 6 days a week, one day of high carbs protein and low fats)

Shed bout a stone while keeping strength.

Fancied givng this a go and only on week 2.

only part i find hard is getting enough food in!


----------



## Guest

I'm down 9lb in 3 weeks on the warrior diet, which is very similar.

I keep it to 300kcals before 5pm, in either fruit or whey or yoghurt.

generally an orange for breakfast, banana +whey smoothie PWO.

then nom nom nom for 4 hours or so from 5/6pm. Giant salad to start, followed by 20oz of beef (100-120g protein), lots of veggies, carb source to finish. and usually a little dessert like a chocolate yoghurt. totals 2100 cals or so per day, losin fat rapidly and gaining strength. loving it


----------



## Der

I am kind of surprised that so many people have tried this diet... I am also on the fence between keto and leangains atm... I have a question, on the website, the author recommends 10 g BCAA before workouts. However he also says that a protein shake will be important as a pre-workout meal in order to improve protein synthesis. So, which one should I go for?


----------



## bayman

Der said:


> I am kind of surprised that so many people have tried this diet... I am also on the fence between keto and leangains atm... I have a question, on the website, the author recommends 10 g BCAA before workouts. However he also says that a protein shake will be important as a pre-workout meal in order to improve protein synthesis. So, which one should I go for?


You need to go read the website again. If you train fasted, he recommend BCAA, or a small serving of Whey to up protein synth and stave off any potential catabolism, what you choose depends on what you can stomach, and what you can afford.

I use Martin's system myself, but with a meal pre-WO as I workout in the evening. So I fast from 10pm to 2-3pm the next day, have smallish meal (500cal or so), do my workout, then the rest of my calories PWO.

I think we need to differentiate between Intermitant Fasting (IF) and Leangains here. IF is going an extended period of time without eating, can be anything up to a 24hrs fast. Leangains uses a 16hr fast with overfeeding on weight training days from extra carbs (specifically PWO) and lower cals and carbs on off days, high protein throughout. All this information is on his website in one form or another but don't confuse IF with "Leangains"

There are other variations also such as the "Warrior Diet" which involves undereating during the day (nibbling 500cal or so) and then getting the bulk of your cals in a 4hour feeding window in the evening.


----------



## Wevans2303

I actually think lean gains is quite decent, I am really not a fan of the warrior diet but the lean gains approach seems to suit me a little better, the only problem I have is eating a load of carbs in each meal, I don't really like that.

Probably going to try this again, but have a pre workout feed as bayman's just mention so most my carbs come around my workout instead of all after. Also going to try lowering carbs to 25% of total calories, just so I can avoid feeling like sh!t after each meal.

Restarting circuit training with all the big lifts, can't wait.


----------



## Der

I dont mind buying either one, but assuming BCAA will be more practical due to faster absorbtion?


----------



## Wevans2303

BCAA's would definitely be preferred if you are training on 'empty'.


----------



## Fatstuff

I don't use any bcaa while training, but I do have one scoop whey with water pwo and don't consider it as breaking my fast. Still seems to be working


----------



## bayman

Der said:


> I dont mind buying either one, but assuming BCAA will be more practical due to faster absorbtion?


Speed of absorbtion isn't a masive concern here, but with BCAA you're getting the upped protien synth and reduce catabolism for minimal cals.


----------



## Der

Nice, thought so. Thanks mate.


----------



## Rekless

How long are most of you Fasted being awake? I rise at 7pm and don't eat till 1pm.

Got to be honest in finding it a struggle.......


----------



## kaos_nw

Im up at 7am and eat 250~cals at 2pm, workout at 5 and have the rest of my calories PWO - 7-10


----------



## Fatstuff

Rekless said:


> How long are most of you Fasted being awake? I rise at 7pm and don't eat till 1pm.
> 
> Got to be honest in finding it a struggle.......


Caffeine and sugar free gum helps a lot. I wake up have a big coffee with sweetener another one later then a can of coke zero later then when the eating begins I only drink water- and if I get Peckish late at night (not often ) I'll have a hot drink (decaf though)


----------



## bayman

One strong black coffee does me fine normally, unsurprisingly Eph and other fat burners are also way more potent in a fasted state. 1 Chest-eze and 200mg Caffeine has me feeling wired and hunger non-existent for hours.


----------



## Fatstuff

bayman said:


> One strong black coffee does me fine normally, unsurprisingly Eph and other fat burners are also way more potent in a fasted state. 1 Chest-eze and 200mg Caffeine has me feeling wired and hunger non-existent for hours.


They don't agree with me the chest eze - too strong lol


----------



## Burgess

where you get chest eze from!!! i havent seen it for years! haha


----------



## Guest

boots


----------



## garethmcl

if you train ever other day do you still maintain the same diet? also if you train in the evening 7pm when do you have your large meal?before bed?


----------



## Rekless

garethmcl said:


> if you train ever other day do you still maintain the same diet? also if you train in the evening 7pm when do you have your large meal?before bed?


Yeah, typically people have a day off at weekends but it's not crucial.

Yes your biggest meal would be after training on training days, so train at 7 eat after at 8-9ish, fast the next day until 1-2pm, repeat.


----------



## garethmcl

yea just wanted to make sure im doing it right, eating so much before bed is crap.


----------



## garethmcl

is there any examples of others who train evenings i need to compare diets.


----------



## bayman

Here's a thought, if the diet isn't for you - don't do it. It's not the only approach you can use, sure the fast may have unique benefits, but I guess the main results come form the carb and calorie cycling - like any other cyclical diet.

This is how it works for me:

Fast till 2-3pm, have a moderate meal (500-600kcal, 50-60g Carbs & protein, moderate fat). Workout starts at 5-6pm normally done by 7, rest of my cals 7-10/11pm. Works for me as I like to eat a lot, I also have a job where I can just kick back and eat in the evenings.

That's a workout day.

Off days I break the fast around the same time, but my largest meal is the fast breaker and can be anything up to 1200cals and 100g of protein. May have 1-2 meals after this before I start the fast again at 10pm, bed for 11.

Repeat.

Weekends I normally have one free day. Calories and macros all depend on what your goals are at the minute: fat loss, recomp, bulk etc.

Like I said, this isn't for everyone, but works for me.


----------



## garethmcl

bayman that would suit me well i think, im going to try that to loose some weight but also maintain muscle. the idea of largest meal on non workout days being the first meal is good. Gym tonight so see how the workout goes and big feed after it before bed.


----------



## kaos_nw

bayman or anyone else with experience - What sort of set up do you have for each of the aims? e.g.

For fat loss - calories under maintenence every day? do you cycle calories and macros on WO/NON-WO days? or keep them static e.g. 500cal defecit ED?

Recomp - Do you have maintenence OR below on Non-WO days and a slight surplus on WO days?

Bulk - Slight surplus every day, larger on WO days


----------



## Brotein

kaos_nw said:


> bayman or anyone else with experience - What sort of set up do you have for each of the aims? e.g.
> 
> For fat loss - calories under maintenence every day? do you cycle calories and macros on WO/NON-WO days? or keep them static e.g. 500cal defecit ED?
> 
> Recomp - Do you have maintenence OR below on Non-WO days and a slight surplus on WO days?
> 
> Bulk - Slight surplus every day, larger on WO days


For fat loss I was doing calories under maintenance every day and I had very good results with it


----------



## SeBb0

kaos_nw said:


> For fat loss - calories under maintenence every day? do you cycle calories and macros on WO/NON-WO days? or keep them static e.g. 500cal defecit ED?


with fatloss what has worked for me is lower cals throughout & one of the training days have a big ass carb refeed.. i dont count cals but that seemed to work. also if u hit a Plataea regarding weight loss i found L carnitine & caffeine pills inthe morning really helped..


----------



## bayman

kaos_nw said:


> bayman or anyone else with experience - What sort of set up do you have for each of the aims? e.g.
> 
> For fat loss - calories under maintenence every day? do you cycle calories and macros on WO/NON-WO days? or keep them static e.g. 500cal defecit ED?
> 
> Recomp - Do you have maintenence OR below on Non-WO days and a slight surplus on WO days?
> 
> Bulk - Slight surplus every day, larger on WO days


The specifics in the approach aren't really discussed, this is why we're waiting for Martin's book. You could pay for a consultation I suppose? Having said that, reading through enough of his stuff on his site and various forums there a few ways he seems to set diets up:

*Fatloss:* Deficit Off days, Workout days (no more than 3 x per week) at maintenace with most of cals and carbs PWO on WO days. The degree of deficit depends on how aggressive you want to be, but I have seen people running PSMF type diets on off days - low carbs and cals, protein the main macro, circa 8cals per LB of bodyweight. You can just run a standard everyday deficit diet with refeeds every 7days too, but this approach seems to maintain weightroom intensity as well.

*Recomp: *Lower deficit on off days, maybe maintenace -500, WO days at maintainance or slightly above. This is the approach I've found the least info on to be honest and seems to be the hardest to set up without "spinning you wheels".

*Bulking:* Martin document his own bulk from 170lb to 200lb on Lyle's forums. He was running a constant 4500cal per day with the bulk of cals PWO on workout days. Off days he just consumed three 1500cal meals. I think his result were helped by the fact he was rebounding from 5% BF and hard dieting.


----------



## Fatstuff

bayman said:


> The specifics in the approach aren't really discussed, this is why we're waiting for Martin's book. You could pay for a consultation I suppose? Having said that, reading through enough of his stuff on his site and various forums there a few ways he seems to set diets up:
> 
> *Fatloss:* Deficit Off days, Workout days (no more than 3 x per week) at maintenace with most of cals and carbs PWO on WO days. The degree of deficit depends on how aggressive you want to be, but I have seen people running PSMF type diets on off days - low carbs and cals, protein the main macro, circa 8cals per LB of bodyweight. You can just run a standard everyday deficit diet with refeeds every 7days too, but this approach seems to maintain weightroom intensity as well.
> 
> *Recomp: *Lower deficit on off days, maybe maintenace -500, WO days at maintainance or slightly above. This is the approach I've found the least info on to be honest and seems to be the hardest to set up without "spinning you wheels".
> 
> *Bulking:* Martin document his own bulk from 170lb to 200lb on Lyle's forums. He was running a constant 4500cal per day with the bulk of cals PWO on workout days. Off days he just consumed three 1500cal meals. I think his result were helped by the fact he was rebounding from 5% BF and hard dieting.


I think if I were considering consuming that many calories I would make my fast shorter I reckon


----------



## wmullen

kaos_nw said:


> bayman or anyone else with experience - What sort of set up do you have for each of the aims? e.g.
> 
> For fat loss - calories under maintenence every day? do you cycle calories and macros on WO/NON-WO days? or keep them static e.g. 500cal defecit ED?
> 
> Recomp - Do you have maintenence OR below on Non-WO days and a slight surplus on WO days?
> 
> Bulk - Slight surplus every day, larger on WO days


What has worked for me is the following:-

*Fat Loss* - Calories under maintenance just like any other diet. Over a 12 week diet, weeks 1-4 500 calorie deficit, weeks 5-8 1000 calorie deficit and weeks 9-12 max 1200-1300 deficit. Once the calories get really low there is merit in following more of a warrior diet approach with one huge meal every day as it becomes something to look forward to, as opposed to torturing yourself with 3 small meals.

*Recomp * - Calorie cycling approach with calories a few hundred over maintenance on workout days and a few hundred under on non-workout days.

* Lean Bulk* - Calories 500-1000 over on workout days and around maintenance on non-workout days. 3 meals in the 8hour feeding window with the bulk of the calories after training on workout days. This is what I'm following at the moment after a long cut and it's workinng great. Strength shooting up fast natty - 2kg/week on compounds.


----------



## TommyFire

With regards to the fat loss approach. I see its been mentioned by Bayman that there should be no more than 3 workouts a week. I know its probably a stupid question but are these full body workouts?


----------



## Brotein

TommyFire said:


> With regards to the fat loss approach. I see its been mentioned by Bayman that there should be no more than 3 workouts a week. I know its probably a stupid question but are these full body workouts?


nope, it is kind of a push/pull/legs routine


----------



## bayman

TommyFire said:


> With regards to the fat loss approach. I see its been mentioned by Bayman that there should be no more than 3 workouts a week. I know its probably a stupid question but are these full body workouts?


Not necessarily. Just rotate upper lower upper, all balances out over time. Or if you using a more strength based routine: Squat, Bench, Dead, Military days, over 10day cycle. It's a common misconception that you need to workout more often to lose fat. You're not going to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit, so you should be aiming to retain strength and mass.


----------



## gerardflanagan

Wow, just found this yesterday and it's blown my mind. Need to cut for the summer and this could be just the ticket. I do weights 4 times a week and cv a few times in between. Do I have to cut this to 3 workouts and no cv? I'll happily drop the cv if I'll still lose the fat (though I'll keep it if I'll lose the fat faster). I don't really want to change to 3 workouts though.


----------



## Gerry_bhoy

This would suit my job so much. I work 11-8 fixed shifts. Could Train at 9 then Eat to 6. Although I want to get the fcuk out of the place ASAP.


----------



## Btnek1664

Sounds good,I`ll give it a go,my job involves a multiple shift patterns so it may suit well-cheers gents,keep up the good thread.....

Al..


----------



## gerardflanagan

What do you guys think of this diet for my rest day? I can't count calories because I like to buy my food from the canteen (there are healthy options). Also, I don't really like counting them. I'm 6'3 and about 90kg.

Last meal was finished at 10pm last night so this is a 1-9pm window. I'm looking to do a 12-8pm window in the future though.

1pm



2pm

40g MP total protein

3:30-4pm

250g quark

40g MP total protein

Spoon peanut butter



630pm

Spoon peanut butter



830pm

30g MP total protein

turkey, pasta sauce, brocolli and a bit of pasta



I've felt hungry for most of the day, including after eating :whistling:


----------



## Guest

you'll feel hungry the first few days.

there's a difference between hunger and having an empty stomach, you'll soon learn it


----------



## gerardflanagan

What's that diet like though? Is that along the right lines? I've got massive paranoia that all of my muscles are just wasting away as I sit there hungry!


----------



## Guest

if the calories are about right for you then it's fine.

I sometimes binge on total crap after fasting, still lose fat just the same.


----------



## gerardflanagan

I don't know if the calories are right, I was hoping someone else could guesstimate. Like I said, I can't measure them all because I buy a lot of my food pre-cooked.


----------



## Guest

hmm tbh doesn't look like a lot of food.

I'll eat 500g of extra lean mince, 2 chicken breasts, huge salad with cheese and bacon, a pack of rice, 2 bananas and a chocolate bar some nights.

I got no idea how big you are etc or how active, you need to calculate your calorie requirements yourself. i'm 185lbs


----------



## gerardflanagan

Ok, I've calculated my calories as follows:

BMR 2079

Lightly active BMR x 1.375 light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week (I do weights 3 times a week)

2858.625

20% calorie deficit = 2286.9 daily consumption

How does my diet look for those goals?

Can I/should I do cardio on leangains?


----------



## wmullen

gerardflanagan said:


> Ok, I've calculated my calories as follows:
> 
> BMR 2079
> 
> Lightly active BMR x 1.375 light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week (I do weights 3 times a week)
> 
> 2858.625
> 
> 20% calorie deficit = 2286.9 daily consumption
> 
> How does my diet look for those goals?
> 
> Can I/should I do cardio on leangains?


Depends on how fast you're losing weight on 2280 calories?


----------



## gerardflanagan

I only started today so I wouldn't know, that's why I want to know how many calories my meal looks like roughly?


----------



## gerardflanagan

I'm nearly two weeks in and I feel/look like I've lost some fat. I've maintained or increased weights. Would doing cardio increase the fat loss without risk of muscle loss? Should I change my calories if I do? I really want to accelerate fat loss over the next 8 weeks but not if it has a really bad effect on muscle.


----------



## Greenspin

To help round off my experience and knowledge of the world of dieting and nutrition ect ect. I am going to be undertaking this 'diet'. I have been doing some really interesting research lately, and thanks to a handful of people (namely bayman and Dtlv74) I have directed my attention to some key research and specific areas of nutrition and the body. Also, observing my brother and dads natural diets strategies (un-intentional daily fasting), physiques (low bf%) and lifestyles (High energy), I can see my potential in this lifestyle. FYI, I was a fatty and seemingly completely the polar opposite to them in most ways. I destroyed and avoided most picture taking when I was a person of the lard (  ), but may, if all goes well, try find some and start a blog or something!


----------



## Greenspin

First day yesterday, and so many calories in one meal made me feel steady as jelly, and think clearly as fog  .


----------



## bayman

Greenspin said:


> First day yesterday, and so many calories in one meal made me feel steady as jelly, and think clearly as fog  .


PWO meal?


----------



## Greenspin

bayman said:


> PWO meal?


It was a bit of a spontaneous decision to start yesterday, so I got up and had a very intense HIIT session 7:30 am that drained me, but then went on not to eat until 12:30 unplanned, but because I was a bit disorientated I was not very together with planning and timing my meal on time, so was 1 by the time I ate, and it was so much food, that I went to the shop after, and felt very detached and shaky. But then my evening meal made me far to energized for bed, and I was like a furnace. But today Is better. And I had oats and rolled rye soaked in kefir with first meal, so was easier to digest and smaller volume of food! I like it though, feels good! With eat again at 6-6:30pm


----------



## bayman

Greenspin said:


> It was a bit of a spontaneous decision to start yesterday, so I got up and had a very intense HIIT session 7:30 am that drained me, but then went on not to eat until 12:30 unplanned, but because I was a bit disorientated I was not very together with planning and timing my meal on time, so was 1 by the time I ate, and it was so much food, that I went to the shop after, and felt very detached and shaky. But then my evening meal made me far to energized for bed, and I was like a furnace. But today Is better. And I had oats and rolled rye soaked in kefir with first meal, so was easier to digest and smaller volume of food! I like it though, feels good! With eat again at 6-6:30pm


Depends how you set the diet up. I work best with a small pre-WO meal meal and the bulk of my cals PWO, but I do workout in the evening. If you workout in the morning, Martin recommends you have some BCAA, and break the fast around lunch time with your biggest meal.


----------



## Greenspin

Yeah, before and after I used BCAA and EAA. I do workout am. But I think I was a bit unorganized, but like I said, today is better. A thinking of going to strimm the garden to use some of this energy.

Edit: I think untimely coffee consumption and volume may have played its part to!


----------



## Dave10

scouse_jay said:


> still undecided on either this or keto, anyone done both? starting week today!


why not do both

keto diet but get everything in in 8 hours

wonder how well that work


----------



## Greenspin

I have so much less washing up  Very pleasing, I really dislike the washing up game!


----------



## RickMiller

Greenspin said:


> To help round off my experience and knowledge of the world of dieting and nutrition ect ect. I am going to be undertaking this 'diet'. I have been doing some really interesting research lately, and thanks to a handful of people (namely bayman and Dtlv74) I have directed my attention to some key research and specific areas of nutrition and the body. Also, observing my brother and dads natural diets strategies (un-intentional daily fasting), physiques (low bf%) and lifestyles (High energy), I can see my potential in this lifestyle. FYI, I was a fatty and seemingly completely the polar opposite to them in most ways. I destroyed and avoided most picture taking when I was a person of the lard (  ), but may, if all goes well, try find some and start a blog or something!


You sound like an ideal candidate mate. Having worked with countless numbers of obese individuals (we're talking pre-bariatric surgery on most occasions) from a dietetic perspective, one of the most beneficial aspects of the leangains and/or the IF protocol is the behavioural improvement with eating over time.

Hunger is almost 100% psychological, virtually no-one ever experiences true, physiological hunger (apart from my anorexia nervosa patients who often eat nothing for days on end) because no one abstains from food long enough to elicit this primitive, inherent response.

By forcing the individual to stop eating for an extended period, you reduce their almost drug-like addiction with food. One of the most common things I hear from patients everyday is they feel their issue is like being a drug addict, torture-like,but they cannot relieve their addiction because food is essential for survival. Even reducing their intake from 'snacking and grazing' to 3 square meals a day improves this issue.

Good luck with your diet, i'm 4 weeks into the LeanGains approach and enjoying it thus far.


----------



## RickMiller

Dave10 said:


> why not do both
> 
> keto diet but get everything in in 8 hours
> 
> wonder how well that work


Probably very effectively, but my thoughts would be initially to take a good deal of time getting used to the fasting and new window of eating (at least a few weeks) then implement the ketogenic protocol.


----------



## Seyyed-Merat

My brother tried lean gains, he basically is the same weight as the last time I saw him but is noticeably a lot leaner now, so it deff works, id love to give it a go but I dont train in the mornings and not sure how fasting will fare with regards to powerlifting...but it deff is a solid idea no doubt.


----------



## Greenspin

One thing I realize, after having got familiar with the basics of the diet, is that actually the feeding window (8 hours) is a fairly large portion of the day! I enjoy getting up more, as I don't have to get strait to making food (I was prepared enough before, but it still takes a short time to make and eat real) whole foods). I feel much lighter, and actually look forward to stuffing my face  , and I am so full after, I am happy not to eat until my next meal! Plus I train am, which mean I am ready to train as so as I get up, no waiting for food to digest ect ect. Which for me is a huge result. Also I feel strangely liberated from the usual regime and empowered as Im no longer a b!tch to food, haha, now food is my b!tch and I will eat like a porn king!


----------



## Der

I am going to start lean gains from the 26th of April. Just wanted to ask, dont you guys struggle to fit so much protein into yourself in one go? I am going to consume 2000 calories, which makes it around 220 g of protein a day, therefore about 80 g every meal (since there are 3 meals in total), how are you finding eating such large amounts of protein in 1 portion?


----------



## bayman

Der, I suggest you re-read the material on his website as nowhere does Martin limit you to three meals. Anywhere from 2-4meals is doable in the 8hr eating window. Neither is there a protein requirement per meal, most cals should be PWO on workout days, rest days the fast breaker should be your biggest meal.

For the previous poster too, the diet isn't absolutely based around the AM workout schedule, you can set it up so you have a meal pre WO and workout in the evening with the rest of your cals PWO (this is how I run it.)


----------



## bayman

UKStrength said:


> Probably very effectively, but my thoughts would be initially to take a good deal of time getting used to the fasting and new window of eating (at least a few weeks) then implement the ketogenic protocol.


Keto + IF is not Leangains.


----------



## RickMiller

bayman said:


> Keto + IF is not Leangains.


I'm not implying that it is. What I'm alluding to is that such an intervention could be used as part of the leangains protocol to enhance fat oxidation.


----------



## Der

I have read the material very carefully trust me. He does not limit us to 3 meals, but he suggests that its the most common approach. 4 meals will be a bit too much (thought still 60 g of protein!) - I would personally prefer to have 3.


----------



## Greenspin

bayman said:


> Der, I suggest you re-read the material on his website as nowhere does Martin limit you to three meals. Anywhere from 2-4meals is doable in the 8hr eating window. Neither is there a protein requirement per meal, most cals should be PWO on workout days, rest days the fast breaker should be your biggest meal.
> 
> For the previous poster too, the diet isn't absolutely based around the AM workout schedule, you can set it up so you have a meal pre WO and workout in the evening with the rest of your cals PWO (this is how I run it.)


If that was just for me  I don't think it is only based around AM training, thats just when I do. This morning was my first weights session, and it was good. It turns out 1 seems to be when I end up breaking the fast too. I like to have this format. Also I enjoy having 2 meal and a shake. 1st biggest 1 (PWO) and then second during the evening about 6:30, then a shake at 8:15 or there abouts. Today I am much more settled into it, and enjoying not feeling hungry for the first time in longtime!


----------



## RickMiller

Der said:


> I have read the material very carefully trust me. He does not limit us to 3 meals, but he suggests that its the most common approach. 4 meals will be a bit too much (thought still 60 g of protein!) - I would personally prefer to have 3.


Agreed, you could still have more meals, the 8 window of eating is just vastly smaller than a regular feeding pattern (it's normally the opposite way round with even a normal 3 meals a day approach).

I have a large appetite but sometimes struggle to eat that much protein Der with my vegetables and starchy carbohydrates. The shakes help a great deal, a couple of scoops of casein protein on my oats goes a long way and pushes my final meal way over 100g protein.


----------



## bayman

UKStrength said:


> I'm not implying that it is. What I'm alluding to is that such an intervention could be used as part of the leangains protocol to enhance fat oxidation.


Martin doesn't recommend using a keto approach for a number of reasons, plus I'm not sure keto would yield any greater fat oxidation outside of just restricting cals more.


----------



## bayman

Der said:


> I have read the material very carefully trust me. He does not limit us to 3 meals, but he suggests that its the most common approach. 4 meals will be a bit too much (thought still 60 g of protein!) - I would personally prefer to have 3.


Well you'd also be aware that the PWO (on WO days) and fast breaker (on rest days) are the largest meals, so you wouldn't evenly split your protein intake anyway. You just need to learn how to eat big, and realize if you can't, then the approach may not be for you.


----------



## kaos_nw

bayman said:


> Well you'd also be aware that the PWO (on WO days) and fast breaker (on rest days) are the largest meals, so you wouldn't evenly split your protein intake anyway. *You just need to learn how to eat big, and realize if you can't, then the approach may not be for you*.


This!

After a few weeks I found out that I just couldn't get used to the huge portions! felt uncomfortably full (to the point of feeling sick!) and I had to start neglecting my veg intake to leave enough room for calorie rich food!

I think its a good plan but really not for everyone. On the other hand I am seeing similar results by just cycling my calories like the Lean Gains approach but having no fixed eating window, Just eating most of my food PWO but still having breakfast after I wake up etc


----------



## Guest

I looove eatin big thats why I looove leangains.

smashed 600g of mince + a pack of rice for one meal today


----------



## TAT 70

Realy like the look of this but i have a question.

I was thinking of eating from 1-9 but i train twice

a day & sometimes 3 times a day.2 of those sessions

would be within my window but i go for a run upon

wakeing.Would it be ok to have a protien drink upon

rising thus braking my fast ?

Sorry if this is a stupid question


----------



## Greenspin

TAT 70 said:


> Realy like the look of this but i have a question.
> 
> I was thinking of eating from 1-9 but i train twice
> 
> a day & sometimes 3 times a day.2 of those sessions
> 
> would be within my window but i go for a run upon
> 
> wakeing.Would it be ok to have a protien drink upon
> 
> rising thus braking my fast ?
> 
> Sorry if this is a stupid question


Check out the site, you can use BCAA and EAA, and even was suggested that you could have a small (I think small) protein shake if you don't/can't affor BCAA and/or EAA.

Edit: What training do you do multiple times a day, and how long is the run out of interest?


----------



## TAT 70

Run varies from 1 mile fartlek,2 mile stooge or 3 mile stumble :whistling:

I then train weights when i get home from work & just to top it off i

train bjj or attend open mat.


----------



## bayman

TAT 70 said:


> Run varies from 1 mile fartlek,2 mile stooge or 3 mile stumble :whistling:
> 
> I then train weights when i get home from work & just to top it off i
> 
> train bjj or attend open mat.


Then this diet is probably not for you.


----------



## TAT 70

bayman said:


> Then this diet is probably not for you.


Thanks .

Was thinking that i couldn`t really follow the general plan pity :thumbup1:


----------



## Greenspin

Just found out what BJJ is (Brazilian Jiu-jitsu?). Sounds good!


----------



## bayman

TAT 70 said:


> Thanks .
> 
> Was thinking that i couldn`t really follow the general plan pity :thumbup1:


Given your post history, you probably need to pick a diet (any diet) and just stick to it. See if it works, if not then change up.

Realise that all plans / diets are ultimately variations of a theme, and it all boils down to getting enough protein to grow / recover, enough carbs to fuel *your* level of activity, and enough fat for health, fullness and flavour. Calories should be set depending on whether you want to lose of gain fat / muscle. Simples.


----------



## Dave10

ive been on keto for 7 weeks now and im pretty sick of it

i LOVE bacon and scrambled eggs for breakfast and LOVE full fat mince with nandos sauce and broccoli for dinner but after that im stuck, im eating chicken thighs and im badly sick of them so ive been looking for a diet change for a while

im going to start this i think, i want to be eating brown rice oats and fruit again!

should i just get straight into it ? or do i need to ween myself off keto ? also next week will be the start of my cycle if this makes any difference ?


----------



## TAT 70

bayman said:


> Given your post history, you probably need to pick a diet (any diet) and just stick to it. See if it works, if not then change up.
> 
> Realise that all plans / diets are ultimately variations of a theme, and it all boils down to getting enough protein to grow / recover, enough carbs to fuel *your* level of activity, and enough fat for health, fullness and flavour. Calories should be set depending on whether you want to lose of gain fat / muscle. Simples.


Very true.

I`ve stuck with roughly the same diet for a while now but am

always asking about alternatives.

What you say makes total sense as well mate.

:rockon:


----------



## Guest

tonights dinner was 500g extra lean mince, tin of kidney beans, tin of tomatoes, 2 peppers, lots of chili and spices, 500g sweet potatos mashed up, topped with a big dollop of creme fraiche

**** me i can hardly move.

I've been eating this way for months and looooove it.


----------



## Greenspin

I went out and bought a steak rump today. Yesterday I broke the fast with 110g dry measure oats and rolled rye, a sirloin steak grilled, 150 broccoli, 20g evoo, 60g cottage cheese, and a protein shake  Can't remember if I had anything else, but I fooking love shoveling it in.


----------



## Greenspin

About to test my metal at my first leg session whilst intermittently fasting.


----------



## RickMiller

Greenspin said:


> About to test my metal at my first leg session whilst intermittently fasting.


Enjoy  there's no better way to train IMO


----------



## Greenspin

Was a very good session, no joke. I was so much more focused. I didn't achieve any PB's, but Im diet (obviously) so can't expect to much. Plus the huge CHO rich meal after was great! My energy has gone through the roof to. And I don't crash, which I was expecting to TBH!


----------



## RickMiller

Greenspin said:


> Was a very good session, no joke. I was so much more focused. I didn't achieve any PB's, but Im diet (obviously) so can't expect to much. Plus the huge CHO rich meal after was great! My energy has gone through the roof to. And I don't crash, which I was expecting to TBH!


Surprising as i'm the same and hitting PBs every 6 weeks (when I retest my 1 rep max). Perhaps the overall volume is too high?

Bodybuilding is notorious for CNS fatigue which can easily reduce strength/power output.


----------



## Greenspin

UKStrength said:


> Surprising as i'm the same and hitting PBs every 6 weeks (when I retest my 1 rep max). Perhaps the overall volume is too high?
> 
> Bodybuilding is notorious for CNS fatigue which can easily reduce strength/power output.


One thing that I forgot to factor in, is the fact that ATM I am sleeping very, very badly. This is something that started before the diet change, for any who are interested!

Today I smashed the gym though, and had a better night sleep last night, so..... :thumbup1:


----------



## TommyFire

Hi guys, Just coming up to the end of a 6 week stint doing Lyle Mcdonalds UD2.0. I previously did another 6 weeks just after Christmas. I have dropped weight at a consistant 2lbs a week when I have been on the diet and my Abs are finally starting to show through, however I'm still prob about 10-14lbs out from where i want to be and the thought of another 6 weeks doing UD2.0 isn't appealing. (This last week has been a real struggle- low libido, loss of strength, tiredness, etc.)

After researching for a some time i think from Monday I'm going to switch to a Leangains approach and see how I fare.

I'm going to do a 3 heavy weights sessions per week (Push,Pull,Legs) with maybe some kettlebell circuits or LISS cardio on non workout days depending how i feel.

I just need a little advice regarding the diet side. My maintenance Kcals is around 2800. I am going to run a straight deficit of 500kcals every day with a constant 3g/per kg BW of protein every day(220gs). On weights days the majority of remaining kcals coming from carbs, on rest days the majority coming from fat.

I'm a bit lost as to how much carbs i should be consuming on rest days. This is my setup so far:

Workout Days.

Protein-220g

Carbs-250g

Fat- 40g

total 2200-2300kcals give or take

Non Workout Days

P-220gs

C-100gs

F-110gs

Total 2200-2300.

Should I be eating more carbs on rest days or does this seem ok? Also do you think it would be benefical to up Kcals to maintenance(+maybe extra) 1 day a week to have a refeed or would 250g on workout days be enough to keep glycogen levels topped up? I wouldn't want to undo any prgress in fat loss by overfeeding unnecessarily!

I hope this makes sense to those reading it!


----------



## 1Tonne

Non Workout Days

P-220gs

C-100gs

F-160gs

Total 2200-2300.

thats not right..


----------



## Greenspin

1Tonne said:


> Non Workout Days
> 
> P-220gs 220g = 880
> 
> C-100gs 100g = 400
> 
> F-160gs 160g = 1440
> 
> Total 2200-2300. Total = 2720
> 
> I think.


----------



## Fatstuff

greenspin, didnt realise you where leangainorising!!! good times, since ive been taking m drol - leangains has been a nightmare for me as my appetite has been up and down like a b1tch, so i havent managed to stick to it as religiously as i like. but excuses excuses apart still love leangains - willl continue it till im grey and old or at the very least some kind of intermittent fasting!


----------



## TommyFire

TommyFire said:


> Hi guys, Just coming up to the end of a 6 week stint doing Lyle Mcdonalds UD2.0. I previously did another 6 weeks just after Christmas. I have dropped weight at a consistant 2lbs a week when I have been on the diet and my Abs are finally starting to show through, however I'm still prob about 10-14lbs out from where i want to be and the thought of another 6 weeks doing UD2.0 isn't appealing. (This last week has been a real struggle- low libido, loss of strength, tiredness, etc.)
> 
> After researching for a some time i think from Monday I'm going to switch to a Leangains approach and see how I fare.
> 
> I'm going to do a 3 heavy weights sessions per week (Push,Pull,Legs) with maybe some kettlebell circuits or LISS cardio on non workout days depending how i feel.
> 
> I just need a little advice regarding the diet side. My maintenance Kcals is around 2800. I am going to run a straight deficit of 500kcals every day with a constant 3g/per kg BW of protein every day(220gs). On weights days the majority of remaining kcals coming from carbs, on rest days the majority coming from fat.
> 
> I'm a bit lost as to how much carbs i should be consuming on rest days. This is my setup so far:
> 
> Workout Days.
> 
> Protein-220g
> 
> Carbs-250g
> 
> Fat- 40g
> 
> total 2200-2300kcals give or take
> 
> Non Workout Days
> 
> P-220gs
> 
> C-100gs
> 
> F-110gs
> 
> Total 2200-2300.
> 
> Should I be eating more carbs on rest days or does this seem ok? Also do you think it would be benefical to up Kcals to maintenance(+maybe extra) 1 day a week to have a refeed or would 250g on workout days be enough to keep glycogen levels topped up? I wouldn't want to undo any prgress in fat loss by overfeeding unnecessarily!
> 
> I hope this makes sense to those reading it!


Realised my mistake after! Schoolboy error, edited!


----------



## bayman

TommyFire said:


> Hi guys, Just coming up to the end of a 6 week stint doing Lyle Mcdonalds UD2.0. I previously did another 6 weeks just after Christmas. I have dropped weight at a consistant 2lbs a week when I have been on the diet and my Abs are finally starting to show through, however I'm still prob about 10-14lbs out from where i want to be and the thought of another 6 weeks doing UD2.0 isn't appealing. (This last week has been a real struggle- low libido, loss of strength, tiredness, etc.)
> 
> After researching for a some time i think from Monday I'm going to switch to a Leangains approach and see how I fare.
> 
> I'm going to do a 3 heavy weights sessions per week (Push,Pull,Legs) with maybe some kettlebell circuits or LISS cardio on non workout days depending how i feel.
> 
> I just need a little advice regarding the diet side. My maintenance Kcals is around 2800. I am going to run a straight deficit of 500kcals every day with a constant 3g/per kg BW of protein every day(220gs). On weights days the majority of remaining kcals coming from carbs, on rest days the majority coming from fat.
> 
> I'm a bit lost as to how much carbs i should be consuming on rest days. This is my setup so far:
> 
> Workout Days.
> 
> Protein-220g
> 
> Carbs-250g
> 
> Fat- 40g
> 
> total 2200-2300kcals give or take
> 
> Non Workout Days
> 
> P-220gs
> 
> C-100gs
> 
> F-110gs
> 
> Total 2200-2300.
> 
> Should I be eating more carbs on rest days or does this seem ok? Also do you think it would be benefical to up Kcals to maintenance(+maybe extra) 1 day a week to have a refeed or would 250g on workout days be enough to keep glycogen levels topped up? I wouldn't want to undo any prgress in fat loss by overfeeding unnecessarily!
> 
> I hope this makes sense to those reading it!


Both Carbs and total calories should be higher on workout days. You want to be closer to maintenance on WO days - treat is as a "mini refeed"

Carbs should be no lower than 100g on Non-WO days.


----------



## TommyFire

Thanks Bayman. Judging by some of your other posts on here your a fan of Lyle Mcdonalds work too. Have you ever tried UD2.0? If so, out of UD2.0 or Leangains which did you find to be better?


----------



## 1Tonne

Tommy, just thought this might help.

Heres mine..

Work out days..

Total Day

Cals - 2900

Fat - 62.1

Carb - 294.6

Pro - 270.4

No workout days..

Total Day

Cals - 1,923

Fat - 103g

Carb - 14g

Pro - 205g


----------



## TommyFire

Cheers dude.


----------



## Greenspin

Anyone else find they are more inclined to 2 meals a day, meal 1 big, then meal 2 towards the end of the feeding window?


----------



## Guest

Greenspin said:


> Anyone else find they are more inclined to 2 meals a day, meal 1 big, then meal 2 towards the end of the feeding window?


If I train later I tend to have a small meal (half a tub of yoghurt, banana, berries) before I train, then smash whatever the hell I feel like PWO.

Sometimes it's obscene, I did 700g of steak, cheese, rice, sweet potatoes, all covered in gravy the other day after a workout. People who see me eating can't figure out how I claim to be dieting, and am losing weight, haha.

if I train first thing then I swap it around and have the big meal later on and the small meal pwo, I know it's not strict IF but it's how I prefer.

But yeah, 2 meals is my favourite


----------



## Guest

post workout meal today :










4 tins tuna, 400g sweet potato, mayo, corn.

somewhere around 1400 cals.


----------



## TommyFire

4 tins of Tuna is a mean feat! I have eaten so much of it over the years i can hardly stand the stuff now!


----------



## Guest

TommyFire said:


> 4 tins of Tuna is a mean feat! I have eaten so much of it over the years i can hardly stand the stuff now!


A lesser man might struggle


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## Greenspin

I kicked @ss in the gym today. I can see my abs coming through, and today, Im feeling happy (well going to the nearest village and having the girl scenery checking you out helps with that) and I smile because I am dieting with amazing results, and I have a *VERY* full belly, and more food to, not just eat, but fit in


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## Guest

It's good isn't it 

I'm nomming my way through 500g sweet potatoes made bombay potato style, 500g peri peri chicken breasts.

i'd take a pic again but broke my phone in the gym, dropped a 20 plate on it, fml


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## Greenspin

Have you seen the meals section on the leangains site? They are hilarious. The burger the guy has looks far to big for him


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## Greenspin

http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Leangains%20Meals <--- Food page for the less well navigated people 

Edit: You have to scroll down the page quite a bit to get to them. Anyone new might find it interesting as meal examples. I am a master chef, so don't need but to muse myself with them


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## RickMiller

Has anyone trialled using glucose disposal agents (e.g. Glycobol, need2slin etc) whilst in a calorie surplus with this method?

Looks like a potentially good way to stay very lean whilst gaining mass.


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## Greenspin

UKStrength said:


> Has anyone trialled using glucose disposal agents (e.g. Glycobol, need2slin etc) whilst in a calorie surplus with this method?
> 
> Looks like a potentially good way to stay very lean whilst gaining mass.


I have fooking loads of insulin in the house, but not something Im interested in!


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## Guest

i think i may possibly be following the outlines of this diet by accident, i never eat anything from the time i wake up till gone midday,then i have a small meal,then i train in the afternoon,followed by an evening meal. if i dont train i just eat protein like today,and if i do train its the carbs on my lunchtime meal. if i train in the morning i train on an empty stomach and still wont eat till after midday.

i can drop weight sooo quick its unbelievable. i eat what i want if i want it on training days,i dont snack,i dont eat carbs if im not training that day. if im not hungry i don't force food down me,i just don't eat.

ok so this wont bulk you but hell your bodyfat will drop and no wobbly bits,just pure lean muscle.


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## Guest

is metformin one?

I had loads cuz my fat diabetic housemate never took it, think i've binned most tho.

he used to eat 2 large chips, 2 cod, washed down with 4 full fat cokes....type 2diabetic, with foot/knee problems. future amputee right there lol


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## Fatstuff

thats one helluva burger thats got to be around 3000 calories, i hope he's not going to eat anything else lol. had a skinny cow last night at 11 so had to fast till dinner today, was surprisingly easy actually with coffee. smashed a chicken chasseur 3 thighs with skin - 2 breasts no skin and around 6 baby potatoes and a slice of bread and butter to mop it up - nom nom nom. all post workout - probably only eat once more again today as i dont think i could hack much more food to be honest


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## Fatstuff

and greenspin - nice one about the abs - but the unbelievable bit is your smiling - cant imagine that scary face smiling lol


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## Greenspin

ALR said:


> is metformin one?
> 
> I had loads cuz my fat diabetic housemate never took it, think i've binned most tho.
> 
> he used to eat 2 large chips, 2 cod, washed down with 4 full fat cokes....type 2diabetic, with foot/knee problems. future amputee right there lol


Same, kind of. My sister is diabetic!


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## Greenspin

fatmanstan! said:


> and greenspin - nice one about the abs - but the unbelievable bit is your smiling - cant imagine that scary face smiling lol


Yeah, the kids in the street where out of there minds with fear!


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## Fatstuff

lol, just noticed u live in devon, bet the weathers nice today isnt it


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## Greenspin

fatmanstan! said:


> lol, just noticed u live in devon, bet the weathers nice today isnt it


Yeah. One of the few times the place looks fairly nice.


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## Fatstuff

if anyone is interested - just had a pretty sh1t meal but i feel fvcked from bein in the sun all day so dont care - half a pack processed chicken 100g - 20 g protein - 3 cheesestrings 18g protein and 1 bun 7g protein. 45g protein all in all - 39g carbs 18g fat. like i said not the best option but macro's are decent lol


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## RickMiller

ALR said:


> is metformin one?
> 
> I had loads cuz my fat diabetic housemate never took it, think i've binned most tho.
> 
> he used to eat 2 large chips, 2 cod, washed down with 4 full fat cokes....type 2diabetic, with foot/knee problems. future amputee right there lol


Metformin is biguanide and increases GLUT4 expression with a relative reduction in hepatic glucose output.

similar OTC products are the ones I stated, I was just wondering if anyone had tried it whilst in a calorie excess with this method.

Even Martin stated that he gained some fat (inevitable) whilst in an excess, although his rate of weight gain was ~1.6kg per week! Probably more than I'd shoot for


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## jim.

Is dash of milk in tea a no no in the morning I.e it's breaking the fast?


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## Greenspin

jim. said:


> Is dash of milk in tea a no no in the morning I.e it's breaking the fast?


I think he says you can add 1/2 a teaspoon skimmed milk. But go easy if you drink a lot, I.e a lot means a lot of kcal's!


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## jim.

Cheers!

I'd say I put more than a teaspoon more like a table. Only have one cup but I'll just cut it out. Been working with anyway cut 4lbs in 2 weeks nice and steady.


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## Rekless

or just drink black coffee (if you like it?)


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## bayman

Rekless said:


> or just drink black coffee (if you like it?)


I do black coffee with no cal sweetner.


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## Rekless

gunna give this another stab i recon as i didnt give it a fair go last time.

Need to man up and deal with the hunger for the first few days.


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## Greenspin

I don't think coffee is right, unless black and unsweetened. Drinkers of non black and sweetened coffee are not coffee drinkers!


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## RickMiller

Greenspin said:


> I don't think coffee is right, unless black and unsweetened. Drinkers of non black and sweetened coffee are not coffee drinkers!


Depends...if it's freshly ground espresso then as it comes (black) is superb, but if it's what we've normally got in the office (nescafe) the sweeteners have to be used


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## TAT 70

fatmanstan! said:


> lol, just noticed u live in devon, bet the weathers nice today isnt it


It was lovely .

Hot & sunny.


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## Guest

Anyone else slightly obsessed with taking pictures of the huge meals they break their fast with?

Here are some from this week:










500g lean mince made into chili, with 50g rice, sour cream and cheese. approx 1300 cals. (thats a v big serving bowl)










Serves 4. Or me, 1300 cals










500g steak, sliced and battered. delicious. about 1500 cals










350g steak, chicken breast, 6 slices of bacon with a salad. Can't remember the cals. think about 1000.

Any one else got pics?


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## Greenspin

I'll try get round to taking some!


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## RickMiller

Greenspin said:


> I'll try get round to taking some!


I pretty much reached my limit with cooked oats yesterday, 300g dry then cooked was a monstrosity of a meal


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## Guest

UKStrength said:


> I pretty much reached my limit with cooked oats yesterday, 300g dry then cooked was a monstrosity of a meal


Wow, I often used to have 30g as part of my breakfast lol. 300!?


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## RickMiller

ALR said:


> Wow, I often used to have 30g as part of my breakfast lol. 300!?


When it's your biggest meal of the day, you find room


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## Guest

UKStrength said:


> When it's your biggest meal of the day, you find room


Yeah, I imagine I prob could. I smash up to 1500 cals in my first meal, and i'm slowly cutting/maintaining at the min. if bulking that meal would be bigger.


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## Greenspin

This is not a huge meal, but leangains related, a snack if you will. My take on Protein Fluff:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/blogs/greenspin/1014-advance-protein-fluff.html


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## Guest

Greenspin said:


> This is not a huge meal, but leangains related, a snack if you will. My take on Protein Fluff:
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/blogs/greenspin/1014-advance-protein-fluff.html


bookmarked. cheers.

why unfreeze the berries! i love em frozen!


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## Greenspin

ALR said:


> bookmarked. cheers.
> 
> why unfreeze the berries! i love em frozen!


Yeah, frozen is good to. On the blog page where it says "do defrost the berries" it's a typo and should say 'to defrost the berries' but what ever is good. I spend most evening munching of frozen blueberries and raspberries


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## Droid

Hi,

Read most of this thread and I'm looking to start LG Tuesday.

I have a couple of questions that I'm pretty sure haven't been answered, but of course I could be wrong...

1.) What's the science behind LG or any IF diet. Is it just that you are more likely to stick to the diet if you are fasting for 16 hours a day or is there some science to suggest that during the fasting period you burn more fat etc? Is it just convenience that allows these amazing transformations?

2.) How close do you need to be on your macros? If I'm getting the correct calories is that good enough?

3.) How clean do you need to be on this diet? I have read posts where people eat crazy amounts of 'bad' foods and still lose weight. I guess this also relates to my first question.

4.) My wife is also looking to lose weight but won't be working out like myself. Can results be obtained from this diet without the exercise? My wife won't want to count macros but would probably be fine if I said to her 'no more than 500 cals on 1st meal' etc.

Sorry if some of these questions have been answered, I'm pretty sure I couldn't find the answers.

Cheers,

Droid


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## Guest

1) For me, I just find it easier to stick to as I don't get hungry during the fasting period. Although on Martins site he does go into the science behind increased fat mobilisation etc

2) If I hit 100g of protein (much lower than I need on a normal diet) I can eat anything. One day that was half a cheesecake and 2 raspberry pavlovas, still looked leaner and tight the next day

3) Yeah as above, make sure you're not over eating and you can get away with more or less anything. I wouldn't make everyday a ben and jerrys and cheesecake day though

4) I had to stop working out for a month due to an injury and found it ideal, lost 10lbs by cutting calories quite hard on this diet but still eating anything I wanted (within set limits of calories obviously) i'd say it's ideal for someone not working out.


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## Droid

ALR said:


> 1) For me, I just find it easier to stick to as I don't get hungry during the fasting period. Although on Martins site he does go into the science behind increased fat mobilisation etc
> 
> 2) If I hit 100g of protein (much lower than I need on a normal diet) I can eat anything. One day that was half a cheesecake and 2 raspberry pavlovas, still looked leaner and tight the next day
> 
> 3) Yeah as above, make sure you're not over eating and you can get away with more or less anything. I wouldn't make everyday a ben and jerrys and cheesecake day though
> 
> 4) I had to stop working out for a month due to an injury and found it ideal, lost 10lbs by cutting calories quite hard on this diet but still eating anything I wanted (within set limits of calories obviously) i'd say it's ideal for someone not working out.


Thanks for the quick reply ALR.

You only need 100g of protein a day? What macro ratios are you using? I wasn't aware that protein intake could be much lower than usual.


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## Greenspin

Droid said:


> Hi,
> 
> Read most of this thread and I'm looking to start LG Tuesday.
> 
> I have a couple of questions that I'm pretty sure haven't been answered, but of course I could be wrong...
> 
> 1.) What's the science behind LG or any IF diet. Is it just that you are more likely to stick to the diet if you are fasting for 16 hours a day or is there some science to suggest that during the fasting period you burn more fat etc? Is it just convenience that allows these amazing transformations?
> 
> 2.) How close do you need to be on your macros? If I'm getting the correct calories is that good enough?
> 
> 3.) How clean do you need to be on this diet? I have read posts where people eat crazy amounts of 'bad' foods and still lose weight. I guess this also relates to my first question.
> 
> 4.) My wife is also looking to lose weight but won't be working out like myself. Can results be obtained from this diet without the exercise? My wife won't want to count macros but would probably be fine if I said to her 'no more than 500 cals on 1st meal' etc.
> 
> Sorry if some of these questions have been answered, I'm pretty sure I couldn't find the answers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Droid


It's all on the site mate. Read up, and you'll answer all you questions: www.leangains.com


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## D4T

I normally just sit back and read what you guys have to say as its very useful (cheers guys! :thumbup1: ) but this time I decided to post back my experience of the lean gains diet.

I've been on it 5 weeks now and the first week was definitely the hardest as far as feeling hungry goes. I work a regular 9-5 job so always work out in the evenings after work, the biggest struggle I have had is eating enough inside the 8 hour window especially PWO. Some days its fine other days I just don't feel hungry enough to smash through 1500 cals right after training.

I found I initially lost weight much faster then I am now, in two weeks I dropped about 2.5kg but now seem stuck at this weight. It seems like my body prefers to not know when im gonna to eat!

When I think back over the years (not necessarily since I started training) I was always at my leanest when eating sporadically, i.e. some days having breakfast, some days not, some days having an early dinner, some days late etc. I wondered if anyone else has an opinion on this or even why it might make sense?

ATM I'm unsure if I'm going to stick with the lean gains at the moment just because it no longer appears to be working effectively for me, or at least not as effective as when I started. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## SASUK

Looking to go back to leangains after ive done my T-bullets cycle bulking plan, i did this for 4 weeks a few months back and really enjoyed it found my day to day routine much more productive, didnt really bother counting any macros made sure to hit my protein intake then listened to my body eating what i needed to stay comfortable definately leaned out maintained mass while cutting body fat what more can you ask for


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## bayman

D4T said:


> I normally just sit back and read what you guys have to say as its very useful (cheers guys! :thumbup1: ) but this time I decided to post back my experience of the lean gains diet.
> 
> I've been on it 5 weeks now and the first week was definitely the hardest as far as feeling hungry goes. I work a regular 9-5 job so always work out in the evenings after work, the biggest struggle I have had is eating enough inside the 8 hour window especially PWO. Some days its fine other days I just don't feel hungry enough to smash through 1500 cals right after training.
> 
> I found I initially lost weight much faster then I am now, in two weeks I dropped about 2.5kg but now seem stuck at this weight. It seems like my body prefers to not know when im gonna to eat!
> 
> When I think back over the years (not necessarily since I started training) I was always at my leanest when eating sporadically, i.e. some days having breakfast, some days not, some days having an early dinner, some days late etc. I wondered if anyone else has an opinion on this or even why it might make sense?
> 
> ATM I'm unsure if I'm going to stick with the lean gains at the moment just because it no longer appears to be working effectively for me, or at least not as effective as when I started. Has anyone else experienced this?


Unless you're not accurately controlliong cals and macros then Leangains is no better than any other standard BB'ing diet. Sure there are theorised health benefits from the fasting and supposed better nutrient partioning, but the biggest advantage in my opinion is that it's much easier to be compliant with your diet only having an 8hr eating window. Compliance = results.

Leangains is not an automatic tickets to fat loss, if you've stalled you're likely taking in too many cals. The initial loss could have been due to eating less overall because of the constricted eating window.

How are you tracking your intake?


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## D4T

Well I'm one of those eaters who can eat the same thing everyday for months on end without ever really getting bored, as such my diet hasn't changed just when I eat has.

That said, I agree I probably am taking in too many cals.


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## Greenspin

D4T said:


> Well I'm one of those eaters who can eat the same thing everyday for months on end without ever really getting bored, as such my diet hasn't changed just when I eat has.
> 
> That said, I agree I probably am taking in too many cals.


As you lose weight, you'll need to reduce your total calories accordingly, for continued weight loss.


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## D4T

This is true. Whats your opinion on reduced calories on off days whilst maintaining a similar protein intake?


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## Fatstuff

D4T said:


> This is true. Whats your opinion on reduced calories on off days whilst maintaining a similar protein intake?


Thats fine IMO - play it by ear, monitor your fat loss and energy levels, i think martin recommends lowering carbs on off days and lowerin fats on training days IIRC - i dont i keep it roughly same every day. Its best to whatever suits you thats the main key to sticking with it. do what u feel comfortable.


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## D4T

I wasn't sure if it was advisable or not. I know from experience low carbs + training = frustratingly poor workout. On off days im fine with little to no carbs as my job involves sitting at a desk all day. I might even try throwing in some LISS on my off days and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice


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## Fatstuff

D4T said:


> I wasn't sure if it was advisable or not. I know from experience low carbs + training = frustratingly poor workout. On off days im fine with little to no carbs as my job involves sitting at a desk all day. I might even try throwing in some LISS on my off days and see what happens.
> 
> Thanks for the advice


wouldnt hurt


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## Rekless

great write up on IF and Leangains.....

http://thesameffect.com/my-experiences-with-intermittent-fasting/


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## aka

Rekless said:


> great write up on IF and Leangains.....
> 
> http://thesameffect.com/my-experiences-with-intermittent-fasting/


enjoyed reading that thanks


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## Mr White

I am willing to give it a go.

What is your PW meal?

I am thinking about having

600g Chicken breast

200g Rice

P 130 C 140 F 10

~1300 kcal


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## Rekless

Mr White said:


> I am willing to give it a go.
> 
> What is your PW meal?
> 
> I am thinking about having
> 
> 600g Chicken breast
> 
> 200g Rice
> 
> P 130 C 140 F 10
> 
> ~1300 kcal


50g Protein, 5 g creatine

then

2 steaks, 200g Potatoes, 1 cup broccoli


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## gerardflanagan

My main aim is losing fat but obviously maintaining (build if possible) muscle. I can't be ****d to count calories exactly because I have a good feel of them from doing it before. Can I just make sure I eat under by 5-30% on off days and eat around maintenance on on days on leangains and I'll lose fat?


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## Greenspin

Anyone donated to Martin? I can probably guess, but could be surprised.


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## Lee3105

Interested in doing the lean gains for bulking...had a look on the LG website but can't find any info on the actual science behind it.

Does anyone have any re fat loss, bulking with minimal fat gain how it works?


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