# Best For Lat Width....



## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Been told to leave deadlifting out for a while, so I'm going to concentrate on building my lats up.

Just wondered what people thought the best exercises for this are?

Cheers

RACK


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

All the exercises you know and love...

Chins

Pulldowns

Wide Grip Rows


----------



## diaita (Nov 30, 2007)

showing my age now Franco,arnies m8 swore by wide grip pull ups,and he had good width


----------



## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

chins and pulldowns all the way, then reverse grip pulldowns for shape on bottom lats, makes a hell of alot of difference... if your lean that is


----------



## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

wide grip pulldowns.


----------



## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Thanks peeps, a routine will be sorted for next back session


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Dumbell rows mate, killer for back width


----------



## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Even deadlifts will promote width, not just mass.

Barbell rows, too.


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

if you are meant to have a wide back i recon it would just get that way whatever back movements you do


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm only going to say this one more time; *wide grip does **not** automatically equate to wide lats*. It's a complete fallacy. The wider the grip, the more danger you put the shoulder joint in and the less stretch you put the lats under at the midpoint. Period.

The lats have one major function, to draw the arms back. Rows, rows, rows, deadlifts & rows. Pulldowns are also good, but narrow to moderate grip is best. Now I don't care if Franco or anyone else for that matter did wide grip chins & had a good back. They would have most certainly done heavy rowing movements as the staple movement so their lats would have been good anyway.


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Nine Pack said:


> I'm only going to say this one more time; *wide grip does **not** automatically equate to wide lats*. It's a complete fallacy. The wider the grip, the more danger you put the shoulder joint in and the less stretch you put the lats under at the midpoint. Period.
> 
> The lats have one major function, to draw the arms back. Rows, rows, rows, deadlifts & rows. Pulldowns are also good, but narrow to moderate grip is best. Now I don't care if Franco or anyone else for that matter did wide grip chins & had a good back. They would have most certainly done heavy rowing movements as the staple movement so their lats would have been good anyway.


Amen to that!!!


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Kezz said:


> if you are meant to have a wide back i recon it would just get that way whatever back movements you do


Wise words indeed from Kezz. Now stop faffing about you guys & just pick something heavy up & row it, deadlift it, pull it down, whatever you want but with good form.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Kezz said:


> if you are meant to have a wide back i recon it would just get that way whatever back movements you do


Agreed


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Nine Pack said:


> I'm only going to say this one more time; *wide grip does **not** automatically equate to wide lats*. It's a complete fallacy. The wider the grip, the more danger you put the shoulder joint in and the less stretch you put the lats under at the midpoint. Period.
> 
> The lats have one major function, to draw the arms back. Rows, rows, rows, deadlifts & rows. Pulldowns are also good, but narrow to moderate grip is best. Now I don't care if Franco or anyone else for that matter did wide grip chins & had a good back. They would have most certainly done heavy rowing movements as the staple movement so their lats would have been good anyway.


9Pack - correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was under the impression that Wide Grip Rows, with correct retraction of the scapula, and formed with a weight at which form remained perfect and ensuring a squeeze at the top and constant tension throughout the movement would target the fibres in the outler lats...?


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

wide grip leaves your more susceptible to bicep tears in any case


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TH&S said:


> 9Pack - correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was under the impression that Wide Grip Rows, with correct retraction of the scapula, and formed with a weight at which form remained perfect and ensuring a squeeze at the top and constant tension throughout the movement would target the fibres in the outler lats...?


No, thats like saying preacher curls give you a peak, and standing barbell just give you mass.

shape is all down to genetics


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

jw007 said:


> No, thats like saying preacher curls give you a peak, and standing barbell just give you mass.
> 
> shape is all down to genetics


Genetics excluded - you're saying the above exercise doesn't target those fibres?


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TH&S said:


> Genetics excluded - you're saying the above exercise doesn't target those fibres?


No more than normal width bent over rows or close grip chins, in fact probably less as there is less strain on back and more on biceps...

I have hardly ever done wide grip stuff and my back is prob my best body part...


----------



## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Fook me, that is one massive back!


----------



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

jw007 said:


> No more than normal width bent over rows or close grip chins, in fact probably less as there is less strain on back and more on biceps...
> 
> I have hardly ever done wide grip stuff and my back is prob my best body part...


You did that to show off didn't ya....


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

i dont do any chins or wide stuff either 

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/members-pictures/25580-starting-my-diet-tomorrow-3.html


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TH&S said:


> You did that to show off didn't ya....


lol just proving my point mate


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

chrisj22 said:


> Fook me, that is one massive back!


Thanks mate, I try


----------



## Ecksarmy11 (Apr 4, 2006)

Awesome back JW.

Could you make the picture a bit bigger though !


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Ecksarmy11 said:


> Awesome back JW.
> 
> Could you make the picture a bit bigger though !


cheers

couldnt be bothered fo faff around making it bigger, i think it serves its purpose PMSL


----------



## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

I remember reading somewhere that with wide grip pull downs you limit the amount of work the lats do as they can't work through a full ROM, if you do reverse close grip chins you get a lot more stretch, so would be working them more.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

RACK said:


> I remember reading somewhere that with wide grip pull downs you limit the amount of work the lats do as they can't work through a full ROM, if you do reverse close grip chins you get a lot more stretch, so would be working them more.


correct


----------



## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

and for all the people who dont have a 21" screen.... 



mg: now thats a back, i better get started!!


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

TH&S said:


> 9Pack - correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was under the impression that Wide Grip Rows, with correct retraction of the scapula, and formed with a weight at which form remained perfect and ensuring a squeeze at the top and constant tension throughout the movement would target the fibres in the outler lats...?


News to me, but this sounds like a theory that may have resulted in a little more fatigue in the rear delts, giving the impression by the subject that the lats had been hit due to doms in the general area. Wide grip rows will generally place the emphasis on the rear delts, mid traps & rhomboids more than the lats. It's impossible to say this would work for everyone due to everyone having slightly different insertion points, varying degrees of shoulder position when training etc. The lats are such a massive group of fibres that it's virtually impossible to fire off a selected portion at will, or even force it with a different grip. The muscle is designed to work as a whole.

P.S JW007, I could put 2" either side on your lat spread with some tweaks to your posing, but a fine pair of wings either way.


----------



## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

RACK said:


> Been told to leave deadlifting out for a while, so I'm going to concentrate on building my lats up.
> 
> Just wondered what people thought the best exercises for this are?
> 
> ...


Why in the world would you leave the best back builder out of the equation:confused:


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Con said:


> Why in the world would you leave the best back builder out of the equation:confused:


I wondered that. Deads are an awesome movement for all round back development.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Nine Pack said:


> News to me, but this sounds like a theory that may have resulted in a little more fatigue in the rear delts, giving the impression by the subject that the lats had been hit due to doms in the general area. Wide grip rows will generally place the emphasis on the rear delts, mid traps & rhomboids more than the lats. It's impossible to say this would work for everyone due to everyone having slightly different insertion points, varying degrees of shoulder position when training etc. The lats are such a massive group of fibres that it's virtually impossible to fire off a selected portion at will, or even force it with a different grip. The muscle is designed to work as a whole.
> 
> *P.S JW007, I could put 2" either side on your lat spread with some tweaks* *to your posing, but a fine pair of wings either way.[/*quote]
> 
> ...


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I'd need to actually show you as opposed to attempting to describe it. Come & see the gym when we open & I'll show you.


----------



## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

I'm have knee/hamstring probs, went to see the physio this morning and he thinks it might have something to do with my L1/L2 vertabre, so suggested I leave deads out for a while.

On another note, really need to build my lats up


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Nine Pack said:


> I'd need to actually show you as opposed to attempting to describe it. Come & see the gym when we open & I'll show you.


Thats Bl00dy manchester lol, cant you video it?


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

jw007 said:


> Thats Bl00dy manchester lol, cant you video it?


Why, are you down there in France like James?


----------



## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Well you learn something every day.

So I'm best off not bothering with any wide grip lat work?


----------



## Big-T- (Feb 5, 2008)

Con said:


> Why in the world would you leave the best back builder out of the equation:confused:


Can I ask,how is this the best back builder??


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Big-T- said:


> Can I ask,how is this the best back builder??


I'll answer that with a question, which muscles do you think you recruit when performing deadlifts?


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> I'm only going to say this one more time; *wide grip does **not** automatically equate to wide lats*. It's a complete fallacy. The wider the grip, the more danger you put the shoulder joint in and the less stretch you put the lats under at the midpoint. Period.
> 
> The lats have one major function, to draw the arms back. Rows, rows, rows, deadlifts & rows. Pulldowns are also good, but narrow to moderate grip is best. Now I don't care if Franco or anyone else for that matter did wide grip chins & had a good back. They would have most certainly done heavy rowing movements as the staple movement so their lats would have been good anyway.


Absolutely, :thumb:


----------



## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

you learn something everyday. cutting out the widegrip pulldowns now and injecting more rows  thanks guys


----------



## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

me too!, stil will do my 3 sets of chins to behind neck first though-with20k

then do more row movements-got a great machine for that now


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Ollie B said:


> you learn something everyday. cutting out the widegrip pulldowns now and *injecting more* rows  thanks guys


That would also work


----------



## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

LOL!!! Im injecting but not enough  u can never get enough!!!!


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Nine Pack said:


> Why, are you down there in France like James?


even further mate lol


----------



## NeilpWest (Aug 19, 2007)

jw007 said:


> correct


Is reverse close grip on the lat pull down where your hands face you or face away from you?


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

NeilpWest said:


> Is reverse close grip on the lat pull down where your hands face you or face away from you?


palms face your face


----------



## NeilpWest (Aug 19, 2007)

jw007 said:


> palms face your face


ahh cheers jw007 i used to to it like that but i gym trainer there said it works my bi's more than my back that way so i changed to wide grip.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

NeilpWest said:


> ahh cheers jw007 i used to to it like that but i gym trainer there said it works my bi's more than my back that way so i changed to wide grip.


was the gym trainer a big guy with a massive back???

I would err on the side of no lol

If you concentrate and use correct form you can actually pull with your lats rather than using your bis, im sure 9pack will have a detailed description on how to perform this


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

jw007 said:


> was the gym trainer a big guy with a massive back???
> 
> I would err on the side of no lol


PMSL :lol:

Reverse grip pulldown was my favourite lat movement until I busted my wrist and now don't have the rotation to do it.

I may actually get a bar made that is just off set, as I like it that much.

Do it right and there should be no more bicep in it than any other back movement, form is the key.


----------



## NeilpWest (Aug 19, 2007)

jw007 said:


> was the gym trainer a big guy with a massive back???
> 
> I would err on the side of no lol
> 
> If you concentrate and use correct form you can actually pull with your lats rather than using your bis, im sure 9pack will have a detailed description on how to perform this


LOL no he wasnt big or have a big back had quite big traps though lol. would be interesting if paul could give a description im sure when i did it i used my bi's maybe i was going to heavy to use my lats dont know.


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

jw007 said:


> was the gym trainer a big guy with a massive back???
> 
> I would err on the side of no lol
> 
> If you concentrate and use correct form you can actually pull with your lats rather than using your bis, im sure 9pack will have a detailed description on how to perform this


No he won't.  I have the worst lack of rotation in the wrists you have ever seen so I have never been able to do them. Same goes for barbell curls with a straight bar or curl grip bent over rows. There is no way of disengaging the biceps from this movement. The lats are the prime mover, but the biceps are a very strong synergist.

I'd advise using a bar that is about 60cms long max with parrallel handles at each end (held palms facing) & try pulldowns like that.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Nytol said:


> PMSL :lol:
> 
> Reverse grip pulldown was my favourite lat movement until I busted my wrist and now don't have the rotation to do it.
> 
> ...


we have a V shaped chinning bar in gym, pretty good as negates all that wrist twisting stuff,

get on of those made up


----------



## xplosivefibres (Jan 17, 2008)

wide grip chins

underarm barbell rows

DB rows


----------



## adzk469 (Mar 19, 2007)

I have a slight injury to my quad/knee and have been told to leave deads and squats for a few weeks, but I was just wondering would just below the knee rack pulls be a good substitute for full deads for the time being?


----------



## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

be ok for lower back i recon


----------



## R3261 (Feb 27, 2008)

adzk469 said:


> I have a slight injury to my quad/knee and have been told to leave deads and squats for a few weeks, but I was just wondering would just below the knee rack pulls be a good substitute for full deads for the time being?


good lift IMO


----------



## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

adzk469 said:


> I have a slight injury to my quad/knee and have been told to leave deads and squats for a few weeks, but I was just wondering would just below the knee rack pulls be a good substitute for full deads for the time being?


I've screwed up a disc or two in my back so all I'm doing at the moment is partial SLDL's from just belwo the knee, a bit like rack lock outs.


----------



## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

interesting stuff guys


----------

