# Advice for a guy who feels totally wrecked and old (peptide or GH)



## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here. I have posted on other forums but only got a few replies so still massively unsure.

I am 50, but in truth, I look older, and I certainly feel older. Ive been feeling like a pensioner for over a year and had blood tests about a month ago and all came back fine.

I don't drink or smoke. I eat a varied diet and cycle about 80 miles a week (albeit at a non Olympic pace). I am 14 stone (yes, I'm overweight for my 6ft height)

My skin is thin and saggy and my joints are sore.

My goal, is to feel and look better and to lose weight. I am just about to join my local gym.

To help my quest, I have been researching peptides and GH, but there is so much conflicting info. I used to frequent Datbetrue's site until he had to withdraw.

I narrowed my research down to Ipamorelin. (I did look into MK677 but was put off by the hunger and edema stories)

I am not, at my age, wanting to build large muscles, but I have heard that increasing your natural GH is a great way to lose weight and to turn back the clock on my skin somewhat.

I know it's no miracle, I don't expect to end up looking younger than my 12 year old son , I just feel old before my time.

Now here's the questions, for anyone one still reading this 

1. For what I need, is Ipamorelin on its own, a good enough choice? Or would I definately be better to combine it with Mod GRF?

2. Would GH at a low iU be a better option (I read an article on an American GP who was using 1 iU a day to help him stave off age related problems)

3. Will either choice raise my IGF considerably. I am worried about raising IGF because of the risk of Cancers. I have read that Low IGF = Longevity and high IGF = earlier mortality.

I have been using L-arginine and L-Lysine at night to boost sleep and release GH. I do get amazing sleep on this but I haven't noticed any other benefits 6 months down the line.

The last issue is, I know where to buy my peptides if thats the route I go, but I have been put off from buying GH because of the sheer amount of fakery out there. I find someone stating where to buy it (I am in the UK) and then learn that others say its faked. I have also learned not to follow advice of where to buy stuff from people with only a few posts under their belts.

So, recap (are you still awake?)

I want to look my age and not 60! Lose weight, build strength, help my joints and energy.

Hope you can help, feel free to PM me if that's the done thing. But once I get going it would be nice to post a journal.

Cheers


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

Hi

I am going to go with ipamorelin on its own just to test the water. I may run it for a few months on its own and then add mod grf to see how that goes.

I think I'll leave HGH as I don't know a good source and worried about importation and the legality of it.

I may still look into MK677 but definitely not long term as I did read bad stuff about long standing Ghrelin production leading to elevated or even permanent stress and fear.

Still would welcome any advice.

Cheers


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## naugahyde (May 18, 2017)

Good luck with the Ipamorelin, I haven't used it but some rate it. Anti ageing clinics feeling the heat on mis- prescribing HGH now prescribe Ipa and Semorelin as a substitute.

Personally I would recommend HGH over Ipa given the choice. 1iu pd is too low a dose & will only serve to suppress your natural output of Igf with little to no overall net gain.

1.5 -2.0 IU pd is an 'anti - ageing' sweet spot - maybe add an IU if running generics, dial it back if you hit CTS sides etc.

Imo though you sound much more like a candidate for Trt - which will probably have much more of an effect on your well being, energy levels, libido and potential muscle mass than such a low GH dose will.

Request Testosterone bloodwork from your GP to see if your levels are low enough to qualify for NHS sponsored Trt.

Failing that there is a great private Trt Doc in Doncaster...I recommend him


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

MrQuay said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> This is my first post here. I have posted on other forums but only got a few replies so still massively unsure.
> 
> ...


 Hi,

Your body is telling you something is wrong and not just old age.

The cycling you do, is it for pleasure or transport to work etc?

If its just as a hobby, try stopping for a few weeks and have some down time.

As far as the joints are concerned I saw dramatic improvements on high dose omega 3 & 6, I had clicky knees that disappeared after a couple of weeks on 8-10g a day of those.

My neighbour got into cycling a few years ago and to be fair he has aged loads over that time, Its clinically proven that extreme exercise will speed up the aging process.

There may be some benefit from you using peptides but in all honesty I doubt it will cure the underlying problem.

Another side effect of some peptides is lethargy, so if you're already knackered this will not help at all.

The blood test you had, was it just a standard one done at your local GP? if it was I doubt it will have checked hormone levels, Test and E2 levels etc.

Might be worth asking for another to cover those, failing that you can get your own at www.medichecks.com

If you do decide to go the peptides and HGH way, just don't expect miracles.

Good look and keep us updated.


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

naugahyde said:


> Good luck with the Ipamorelin, I haven't used it but some rate it. Anti ageing clinics feeling the heat on mis- prescribing HGH now prescribe Ipa and Semorelin as a substitute.
> 
> Personally I would recommend HGH over Ipa given the choice. 1iu pd is too low a dose & will only serve to suppress your natural output of Igf with little to no overall net gain.
> 
> ...


 Thanks 

I am interested in running a maintenance dose of HGH but worried about where to get it. Am I allowed to ask that question here (or have I just lit the blue touch paper...)

I was worried about bone growth, but maybe thats when you use huge amounts. And also I want my IGF-1 levels to not go too high. I have decided to get my IGF-1 levels checked. I may have to go private for that and pay a few quid.

My testosterone levels were ok according to my GP but I am going to ask what they where and post them here in case they actually are really low.

Thanks for the advice


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> Hi,
> 
> Your body is telling you something is wrong and not just old age.
> 
> ...


 HI,

Thanks for this, its very useful.

I cycle mainly for pleasure and to keep the weight off and keep fit. I saw a programme on the telly that said if you cycle regularly that you half your risk of cancer and a premature death. Ive been cycling since 2013. I don't go hell for leather, I only average about 11mph. But I know that you are sort of right. I read that higher IGF-1 levels lead to accelerated aging, so keeping it within range is important. Although very low IGF-1 levels can also lead to certain diseases too.

The blood test was explained as a full test, which included testosterone, which he said was within range.

It may help in saying that I used to drink alcohol, I used to love it. I drank too much, not to the levels of an alcoholic, but it was too much and over many years. I have been alcohol free for over a year now and it was the best thing I ever did. I am wondering if this and the fact that my last job was so horrifically stressful and used to sleep really badly. I may have knackered my body completely.

But I know some of this can be reversed. I do take a mountain of supplements.

Omega 3, Vitamins C, D, E, Zinc, B cmplex,

I also take L-Lysine and L-Arginine at night which has improved my sleep.

I may ask for a full hormone check and see where that takes me.

I'll keep you posted.

Regards


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Cycling 80 miles a week is pretty extreme just to keep fit. I'd cut that down a bit and see how you feel.


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

monkeybiker said:


> Cycling 80 miles a week is pretty extreme just to keep fit. I'd cut that down a bit and see how you feel.


 I've had a week off from doing it as Ive been decorating the downstairs. The cycling only really equates to about 90 mins a day over 5 days, I don't go fast, but had noticed I was slowing down a lot.

I'll keep off it for a few more days and see if its better 

Many thanks :thumb


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## flasher (Feb 4, 2016)

Get your hormones checked....

TRT all day IMO.... Could potential change your life.

You may not have low T (could be within 'their' range) but I guarantee putting some test in you would almost instantly invigorate you.


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## naugahyde (May 18, 2017)

MrQuay said:


> Thanks
> 
> I am interested in running a maintenance dose of HGH but worried about where to get it. Am I allowed to ask that question here (or have I just lit the blue touch paper...)
> 
> ...


 Welcome. If you are in the low range ie below 12 nmol I would go for Trt - unlikely though that an NHS Doc will prescribe for you unless your bloods fall below the magic number. You have the choice of going privately - or doing it DIY.


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

flasher said:


> Get your hormones checked....
> 
> TRT all day IMO.... Could potential change your life.
> 
> You may not have low T (could be within 'their' range) but I guarantee putting some test in you would almost instantly invigorate you.


 I will definitely look into this

Thanks


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

naugahyde said:


> Welcome. If you are in the low range ie below 12 nmol I would go for Trt - unlikely though that an NHS Doc will prescribe for you unless your bloods fall below the magic number. You have the choice of going privately - or doing it DIY.


 I'll definitely check my testosterone levels. I am sure my Doc used a different rating like 400ng, but I'll check.

What is the usual treatment if I went the DIY route?

I won't do anything until Ive spoken to my GP. He's pretty good.

Best wishes


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## flasher (Feb 4, 2016)

Unless your under 7.5 i think they wont treat you.... But any thing under 20 IMO could give all of your symptoms. There is a section here on the forum about TRT, start reading through that. Its also called andropause, google 'andropause' and watch all the vids on youtube, this should help you understand more about it all.

RE: Your doctor may be good but i can almost guarantee you will not be prescribed or diagnosed with andropause. 99% of docs just prescribe anti depressants.. TRT/andropause is relatively new school medicine.

The treatment usually is, Test sustanol (multi ester testoterone) or Test Ciponate via intra muscular injection, dosage dependant or your levels.

Also can treated with cream or pellets.

You have a few options here, accept the way your body is and age as gracefully as you can.....

Or get on test and feel literally 20 years younger.

Im a 40 year old male and i take 300mg of test enathanate weekly, I train 5 times a week, and blow my peers out of the water not only physically but my business is thriving as well as my sex life... There are some downsides to all this so enter with caution, educate yourself and enjoy.....


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

I'm not going to disagree with flasher because I'm not a doctor, but I would warn against introducing exogenous hormones into your system at this stage as your situation / goals do not seemingly warrant this to my mind.

Face and resolve any issues in your life that are causing you stress. Drop most of the cycling and do some strength training instead. You don't have to lift weights if you don't want to, Calisthenics is fine. If you do want to lift, perform very light compound movements for a start, take a look at the 5x5 program. Good Luck.


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

flasher said:


> I'm a 40 year old male and i take 300mg of test enathanate weekly, I train 5 times a week, and blow my peers out of the water not only physically but my business is thriving as well as my sex life


 With the greatest of respect I'm 44, do not currently use hormones and I am all of the above. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong and I plan to use steroids again I the future, I'm just cautiously suggesting the what you are saying won't necessarily deal with op's issues.


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

Cheers for all your comments.

I never go into anything without researching fully. I have been looking into Ipamorelin for over a year and have read loads of studies. HGH too.

I can work on my strength and maybe do some resistance training. My stress levels have been low for ages now, ever since I left my ludicrous 80 hours per week job a number of years ago.

I would like to produce more collagen as my face is sliding down my skull to the extent that if I bend down too quick, my ears clap together!!

I had read that more growth hormone is necessary to help with this.

It would be interesting to see how my oestrogen levels are as I have that typical body... maybe looking at supplements that suppress oestrogen if that turns out to be the case.

Thanks for the advice


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## flasher (Feb 4, 2016)

Sasnak said:


> With the greatest of respect I'm 44, do not currently use hormones and I am all of the above. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong and I plan to use steroids again I the future, I'm just cautiously suggesting the what you are saying won't necessarily deal with op's issues.


 I agree with you everyone is diff... What i do works for me....


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## MacMan (Aug 23, 2018)

Hi there MrQuay,

I came across your post while going through all the posts in the peptides section of the forum and I related somewhat to your situation, although the causality is probably different.

I took the hair medication propecia for about 10 years. In that time I noticed that the skin on my face wrinkled when I smiled etc., with many fine lines appearing. On doing a Google search I saw that others were complaining that propecia had aged them. On stopping the medication I have experienced further side effects, including loss of subcutaneous fat to my face, especially around my eyes and cheeks. This has had the detrimental effect of making the damaged skin much more apparent as I have lost a lot of the underlying support. Others who have taken propecia have also experienced this, although the exact cause of all of this is still being investigated: www.pfsfoundation.org

A few guys on the propecia sufferers forums are advocates of peptides, with one claiming that they have helped restore the fat to his face. I have always held on to this as a potential for me to try, but like yourself I am extremely reticent about anything ordered online and feel that I want to do as much research as possible before jumping in as it were. I had my hormones checked when most of the side effects hit and they seemed to come in at the lower end of the range, but still in range, with my igf-1 level coming in at 135. I would consider trt if it was to improve my situation also. The dose that is recommended by the guys I've mentioned is an GHRP2/6 & sermorelin mix, with only a night time injection necessary for an anti-ageing effect. I feel that I owe it to myself to at least try this before going down any kind of cosmetic route, but as you have made similar enquiries on here I wanted to ask you how you are getting on yourself and whether you have taken the plunge as it were.

I am also in the U.K. and I'm 45.

Mac


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

Hi Mac,

Believe it or not I am still researching!! I read great info and then conflicting info.

I am currently looking at taking 2iU of HGH per day but still looking into Ipamorelin.

I guess I'm still a little worried about sticking pins into myself. I have to overcome this and just trial it and see what happens.

I'll keep you all posted

Best wishes


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## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

I have used ipamorelin and mod grf, lethargy lasted about a month, after that zero side effects unless i dosed high/very frequently. Getting AMAZING deep sleep on this stuff


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> i haven't read all the replies but going on your initial post my advice is this.
> 
> your real options are: and by real i mean none of this "well i could try this for so long then do this blah blah" this is a waste of both time and money
> 
> ...


 Something like this, Paul?

https://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/hydrolysed-collagen-peptide/11067704.html?autocomplete=productsuggestion

Thanks for your reply in advance.


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> yes mate although it looks like MP sell it as a protein shake, studies have shown 10-12g is what is needed MP suggest 25g which is a slight overkill but same thing buddy, i use it in my coffee in the morning (Unflavoured)


 Thanks pal!!! Much appreciated. Buying now!! LOL


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## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> yes mate although it looks like MP sell it as a protein shake, studies have shown 10-12g is what is needed MP suggest 25g which is a slight overkill but same thing buddy, i use it in my coffee in the morning (Unflavoured)


 Will products like that help produce collagen type 1?


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## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> how do you mean to produce it?


 Well I read for instance that GH helps stimulate/increase synthesis of collagen type 1, which is important for healthy tendons.

Was wondering how those type of products work, if they do something similar.

Im currently taking fish oil, bcaa, glucosamine, mega cissus, vitamin c and HGH for tendon/joint/muscle health. I guess what Im digging for is if a collagen product could also be worth adding to the stack

(Sorry for going a bit off topic)


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## MrQuay (Oct 24, 2017)

Hi,

I am also taking high strength Omega fish oil, vit C, Vit B complex, Glucosamine, Zinc and magnesium oil.

I am also booking myself in for a vitamin B12 injection as I have heard that this can improve mood, sleep and overall skin health. Its also a very good anti stress/anti aging addition. And, I believe, it is rally good for tendons too!!


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## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> guys Collagen Hydrolysed be that from bovine or marine is far better for joints than the lists you guys have mentioned, this does not mean the stuff you are taking is useless but in my opinion, if you are wanting to use a supplement for joints, tendons etc then take Collagen type 1 you can take the rest if you want but it is not needed in my opinion.


 Thanks buddy! Was not aware that a collagen supplement was that beneficial. Will be ordering some from MP asap


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## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> guys Collagen Hydrolysed be that from bovine or marine is far better for joints than the lists you guys have mentioned, this does not mean the stuff you are taking is useless but in my opinion, if you are wanting to use a supplement for joints, tendons etc then take Collagen type 1 you can take the rest if you want but it is not needed in my opinion.


 Im reading some mixed things. Some sites saying bovine is rich in collagen type 1 and 3, and marine is good for just type 1.

Others saying the whole type 1, 2, and 3 thing is overhyped as ur body cant tell the difference when ingesting a collagen supp and will just use what it needs.

The reason i bring it up is because tendon injuries (tendonosis) shows a skewed ratio of type 1 to 3. With an abudance of immature collagen type 3 and much less type 1. Healthy tendons consists of type 1, so this is the type you want to promote/stimulate etc for tendon injuries

I bought the hydrolized bovine for now, putting 12-15 gram In the coffea, tastes fine 

Anyway would love to get your opinion on the whole collagen type 1, 3 etc from collagen supplements buddy


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## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> my opinion of the types is in my last post that you quoted buddy, after what i have researched bovine is superior for tendons as it is Type 1 & 3, Marine is more heavily type 2 which has more influenced with Skin, Hair etc.


 All right, thanks


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