# steroid deaths



## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

Didnt think it was aproprate to put this in the steroid section because im not really looking info on it, just a general chat about steroid deaths. With teh recent death of Zzzzzhh on bb.com its got me thinking about people dying through gear. I was all for taking every bit gear under the sun to acheive the perfect body but with a few deaths ive seen on teh net and heard of stories of people dying here in ireland through steroids then its got me to think twice about taking gear. There was a regular poster over at muscletalk that died last year because of his heart packed in and he was a regular use of test and other gear and it honestly freaked the fcuk out of me.

I have took gear myself on a few ocassions, 1st 2 times i took the stuff without even entering a gym or eating properly(such a dick i was,lol). I then started learning about gear/diet and took my 1st cycle after 2 and half years of training and gained brilliantly of it but then came the blood tests after my cycle and my bad cholestrol was really high and it freaked teh fcuk out of me to say the least. Ever since them results it has seriously got me thinking about not taking gear ever again but we all know the world we live in, im also wanting to do another few courses of test so my head is now fried,lol.

Im just wanting to hear from anyone who knows people who have died through their overuse of gear and how they died. There was this guy from dublin who live in belfast who took all sorts of silly meds(looked amazing i must say) but one morning his girl went to wake him and he was stone cold dead, this sort of sh1t freaks me out mainly because i have 3 kids to think about. Just curious to know does it also freak you out what is going on uner the bonnet with your gear use.


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## Lycan Prince (Jul 4, 2011)

Has anyone ever been proven to die from steroids? As far as I'm aware steroids isn't ever the cause of death.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Lycan Prince said:


> Has anyone ever been proven to die from steroids? As far as I'm aware steroids isn't ever the cause of death.


That's always the type of slightly defensive position I would expect to see on this site. As far as I know, the answer to that question is no. But there are many, many examples of people on really high doses developing numerous other problems and dying from them. In my opinion steroids CAN contribute to people's deaths, generally when they have taken high doses of numerous substances for years and years. I am not saying they CAUSE deaths, merely that they may not help or may exacerbate when people are developing other problems.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

Lycan Prince said:


> Has anyone ever been proven to die from steroids? As far as I'm aware steroids isn't ever the cause of death.


When i was doing my research before i done my 1st proper cycle this comment kept poping up but i would believe that gear has had a massive part to play in deaths. Yes you will get people saying that its been other things but if the, people who died didnt take gear at the time then im sure they would still be alive. I no gear users dont liek to admit that it causes deaths but at teh back of their mind they know that its can have a serious negative effect on teh heart/body


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2011)

> Has anyone ever been proven to die from steroids? As far as I'm aware steroids isn't ever the cause of death


no steriod will never be the cause of death it is the affects on the system that causes the problems that lead to the deaths- i think some have come a cropper on slin though.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

romper stomper said:


> no steriod will never be the cause of death it is the affects on the system that causes the problems that lead to the deaths- i think some have come a cropper on slin though.


Like what


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## Dananaman (Jan 2, 2013)

Steroids don't kill people. Rappers do.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

Dananaman said:


> Steroids don't kill people. Rappers do.


Man were trying to have a serious debate here ffs


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

cultivator said:


> Like what


Well really the side effects most of us know about - possible liver problems (oral), cholestrol, blood pressure, hypertension just to name a few are effects which could seriously impact on another condition, or over a period of decades start to cause problems.


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## N-Moo (Jun 11, 2011)

Until there is proper research it's hard to say... does gear make certain conditions worse? Would people who've had heart problems be genetically predisposed to them anyway?

What about the difference between sensible use of gear with proper PCT and people who drop anadrol down their necks in huge quantities for months on end, have no PCT and then start another cycle a few weeks after that?

Not all gear users are the same...

Zyzz was a regular coke user, a steroid user, a smoker, drinker and rumoured to have been on clen for a long time.... which of those factors caused his heart to finally pack in in a sauna??? Not sure I'd like to even guess?!

There will always been people that go to extremes - however you only have to look at these forums and many others to see that people can and do use steroids without dying... so the deaths are an expception rather than a rule.

Additionally people die from all sorts of medication if they react badly to it.... even over the counter stuff....

So i guess my answer is that if you listen to your body, are sensible, and use things correctly.... then the actual risk is not massive... but it is there nonetheless.

it's up to you to arm yourself with the knowledge to decide what's worth doing and what isn't.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

i knew a guy back up home he was huge and pretty fearsome too , he liked steroids quite a lot but he liked other drugs to coke ghb ganja whizz you name it he took it but it wasnt until he finally started using heroin that the problems started .

he would ballon up and down from 12 to 20 stone in what seemed like only a few weeks in the end his heart gave out , i know he was on tren but i think it was his attitude towards drugs that killed him and the mis/over use of them .

gear will not directly kill you but can have some harsh side effects that can make a man kill or kill himself (not just suicide) .

take a look at chris bennoit yes he took gear but i think it was the mental side effects that killed him and made him flip .

jesse marunde died of a genetic heart defect imo brought forward by aas peps and gh .

same as jon pall sigmarsson died from a genetic heart defect more than likely brought forward by the use of gear .

problem is studies are not carried out due to human rights so one will never know the truth until such studies are carried out and these to be done right would take a lifetime .


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## Lycan Prince (Jul 4, 2011)

cultivator said:


> When i was doing my research before i done my 1st proper cycle this comment kept poping up but i would believe that gear has had a massive part to play in deaths. Yes you will get people saying that its been other things but if the, people who died didnt take gear at the time then im sure they would still be alive. I no gear users dont liek to admit that it causes deaths but at teh back of their mind they know that its can have a serious negative effect on teh heart/body


Personally i have never taken them. But I was under the impression that was the case. I would imagine that they just speed up stuff that may have occurred any way or push things that weren't a problem to the point where they become a problem but as with most things I guess that comes more from abuse than from use in general.


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## BatemanLondon (Jun 14, 2011)

if someone died from [email protected] I wouldnt stop, someone will always die from something. get over it


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

I regard steroids like food and drink. Used or eaten sensibly a reasonable amounts/dosages for your size and weight you will more than likely be fine. Use/eat everything under the sun and you will no doubt strain your system and cause underlying damage that cannot be seen. This is why I have regular bloods with my Dr just to make everything is tickerty boo. Doesn't mean I won't die from my gear use but I'm doing everything I can to minimize risk.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

People die from being stupid and not being sensible, same with any drug same with drink, same with food, same with life!


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

with any drugs in large amounts,your playing russian roulette with your

health and ultimately your life,i dont think you can be sensible with drug use

either tbh self prescribing allsorts meds with no day to day monitoring is

dangerous, and a risk ive taken anyway.Its an individual thing in the end.

Ive known a fair few bb's who have died early in years,heart,prostate

cancer,kidney failure a have a few friends who are also physically fvked

right now and seem to struggling with health,blood related probs

heart prob's,and its no coincidence there all long time bb's.

The question is always,would they have had these problems anyway,

maybe a lot later in life and the drugs have just speed-ed up the process.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

not the sort of thread i wona read when im pinning 2ml every day and 10 tabs everyday.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

I Knew 2 people who died young.One was a Britain finalist (Heart Attack at 36) The other died of a rare liver tumour that was extremely rare(according to the pathologist)in a a man of 27.(I think its documented somewhere)That incident sent shivers around the gym, when it became common knowledge.In fact, one guy I knew at the time,was visibley shaking when I told him.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Ts23 said:


> not the sort of thread i wona read when im pinning 2ml every day and 10 tabs everyday.


so dont read it ...


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

essexboy said:


> I Knew 2 people who died young.One was a Britain finalist (Heart Attack at 36) The other died of a rare liver tumour that was extremely rare(according to the pathologist)in a a man of 27.(I think its documented somewhere)That incident sent shivers around the gym, when it became common knowledge.In fact, one guy I knew at the time,was visibley shaking when I told him.


do you know what the substances were ?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

ewen said:


> do you know what the substances were ?


Hi Ewen,re the Heart Attack no.The other guy used orals, but what type/doses, Ive no idea.Ill try and find the details, he was spoken about on the net, even though it was 25 years ago.The other guy, I wont mention because some here would have known him.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

ewen said:


> do you know what the substances were ?


high andro prob's ...halo's etc ran for long periods?


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## Hicup (Jan 3, 2011)

BatemanLondon said:


> if someone died from [email protected] I wouldnt stop, someone will always die from something. get over it


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

think i`ll go careful with my halos then , sounds like toxic opral combos were used .


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Question - women each month use pills/implants/coils etc with hormones on them to stop themselves getting preggers. Whats the difference? One is vanity and one allows people to be promiscuous yet one is socially OK, one is not. Why is this? Is it because one makes you look different from the norm and other is convenient and it allows you to have to not think about consequences of your actions?

Wonder how many studies have been done on cancers etc relating to the pill etc?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

ewen said:


> think i`ll go careful with my halos then , sounds like toxic opral combos were used .


This was all that was posted: "I have known people who have resisted the temptation to take a short cut through using illegal drugs. I have in many cases seen them continue to train year in and year out and be constantly making strength gains and muscle gains for over 20 years. At the same time I have known many people fall into illegal drugs burn brightly and burn out. My friend David Sing died after taking illegal steroids. Other friends of mine have also died due to them taking illegal steroids, but for the sake of their families I won't put their names in print. The family of David Sing has given me permission to use David's name to warn others about the danger of taking illegal steroids. David was very well liked, he was friendly, easy to talk to, and very helpful when it came to training advice. David was also one of the strongest men in Stan's Gym. Illegal Steroids killed this young man.

So please don't take illegal steroids, I don't want to go to another funeral because of drugs."


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

my mate got run over by a milk float.......does that mean milks bad for you...lol


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## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

people die crossing the road everyday are you going to stop crossing the road....no you put measures in place to minimise/exclude the risk.


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Lycan Prince said:


> Has anyone ever been proven to die from steroids? As far as I'm aware steroids isn't ever the cause of death.


Brother - this is a little silly. It might not be 'proven' to be the 'cause' of death but the finger is often pointed at it. To me its like a wheel falling off a motorbike. The Rider falls off and died but the cause wasnt wheel falling off the cause of death was the actual smashing of his head against that lamp post.

But outside of that daft annalogy - everyone has weaknesses and if someone has a weak heart or a hidden problem then steroids will naturally put more strain on these vital organse and naturally you will get a small number of people that die.

The same as people taking painkillers or drinking... or climbing a mountain out of shape - you can over do it and bang, brown bread.

I am actually a convert, a couple of years ago I would always talk down steroids but if I am honest, if they are done properly, with respect and knowledge I see very little harm. But they have to be done for the right reasons and not just becasue "I want to be bigger than Tom in the pub".


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Glassback said:


> Brother - this is a little silly. It might not be 'proven' to be the 'cause' of death but the finger is often pointed at it. To me its like a wheel falling off a motorbike. The Rider falls off and died but the cause wasnt wheel falling off the cause of death was the actual smashing of his head against that lamp post.
> 
> But outside of that daft annalogy - everyone has weaknesses and if someone has a weak heart or a hidden problem then steroids will naturally put more strain on these vital organse and naturally you will get a small number of people that die.
> 
> ...


good post and good point .


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Question - women each month use pills/implants/coils etc with hormones on them to stop themselves getting preggers. Whats the difference? One is vanity and one allows people to be promiscuous yet one is socially OK, one is not. Why is this? Is it because one makes you look different from the norm and other is convenient and it allows you to have to not think about consequences of your actions?
> 
> Wonder how many studies have been done on cancers etc relating to the pill etc?


the answer is simple fella ...... not every bird likes her back door knocking in .


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

adlewar said:


> my mate got run over by a milk float.......does that mean milks bad for you...lol





MT5 said:


> people die crossing the road everyday are you going to stop crossing the road....no you put measures in place to minimise/exclude the risk.


You cant seriously compare these two comments to gear use


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

cultivator said:


> You cant seriously compare these two comments to gear use


I think this is the most sensible thing you have ever said Cultivator. You cannot link these, this is silly throw awa comments Adlewar will appreciate that and I am sure he has a more intelligent grounding to his argument. He is a sharp bloke.


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## N-Moo (Jun 11, 2011)

Glassback said:


> I am actually a convert, a couple of years ago I would always talk down steroids but if I am honest, if they are done properly, with respect and knowledge I see very little harm. *But they have to be done for the right reasons *and not just becasue "I want to be bigger than Tom in the pub".


What are the right reasons?

If you don't have a severe muscle wasting illness then, no matter who you are, you are taking them to be bigger than tom down the pub.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

adlewar said:


> my mate got run over by a milk float.......does that mean milks bad for you...lol





MT5 said:


> people die crossing the road everyday are you going to stop crossing the road....no you put measures in place to minimise/exclude the risk.





Glassback said:


> Brother - this is a little silly. It might not be 'proven' to be the 'cause' of death but the finger is often pointed at it. To me its like a wheel falling off a motorbike. The Rider falls off and died but the cause wasnt wheel falling off the cause of death was the actual smashing of his head against that lamp post.
> 
> But outside of that daft annalogy - everyone has weaknesses and if someone has a weak heart or a hidden problem then steroids will naturally put more strain on these vital organse and naturally you will get a small number of people that die.
> 
> ...


What would you call the right reasons thou. If you are talking about competing i just cant see that as a more valid reason than wanting to look good down the pub to get laid more. In saying that , i do take my hat off to anyone that competes because i know no sport that needs so much dedacation to win.


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

N-Moo said:


> What are the right reasons?
> 
> If you don't have a severe muscle wasting illness then, no matter who you are, you are taking them to be bigger than tom down the pub.





cultivator said:


> What would you call the right reasons thou. If you are talking about competing i just cant see that as a more valid reason than wanting to look good down the pub to get laid more. In saying that , i do take my hat off to anyone that competes because i know no sport that needs so much dedacation to win.


Hi Gents

Well I accept that bodybuilding is a sport or a discipline (to avoid getting in to that argument). If I had my way I would use that pen thing from Men In Black and blank everyones minds and hide steroids.

Have ALL natural competitions but that wont happen. An acceptable reason for me is for application, if someone want sot get stronger and fitter (although I do have reservations about this) but more so competiting.

I dont agree with idiots taking them to get bigger, to increase their ego or impact when walking in a room.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Glassback said:


> Hi Gents
> 
> Well I accept that bodybuilding is a sport or a discipline (to avoid getting in to that argument). If I had my way I would use that pen thing from Men In Black and blank everyones minds and hide steroids.
> 
> ...


i agree with your point GB .

as for the bit i underlined .... how many times have we all seen some chavvy little idiots or just simpletons banging on about dogging sh1t loads of gear to get hench with no understanding and not wanting to understand the benefit and severity of steroids and other compounds these are the people it should be hidden from .

imo a guy/girl using gear to better ones sporting ability in an untested event/s is more acceptable than someone using just to put a bit of size on and look better .

im not saying its wrong for people to want to better themselves just that in doing so make sure the education of steroids and other compounds is done first .

we can all do as we please providing we live within the law (to a certain degree)


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## Vinney (Apr 27, 2011)

I understand the concern here ... you i think you need to have underlining health problems from the start for steroids to be even a contributing factor.

Also .... like anything in life ... people abuse stuff and steroids are no different. So yeah i agree that people will die of a direct / indirect steroid use.

if you are fit and healthy and dont take the ****, i wouldnt worry.


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

ewen said:


> i agree with your point GB .
> 
> as for the bit i underlined .... how many times have we all seen some chavvy little idiots or just simpletons banging on about dogging sh1t loads of gear to get hench with no understanding and not wanting to understand the benefit and severity of steroids and other compounds these are the people it should be hidden from .
> 
> ...


Yes well its these idiot chavs that take them trying to get big... what they dont realise is a bloke half the size and weight can have you packed up, with your crying for your mum in no time. I've seen it.

I do my best NOT to fight - I do everything possible to get out of fighting, even if it makes me look like a ****house - miles past it now. But there was a situation where some kid 23 years old maybe got big thought he was ten men, I WISH I filmed it, a bloke of 27 kick boxer weighing about 10stone wet absolutely bundled this guy up.

So to the kids out there - getting big doesnt make you a ninja. But my story has a cycle, after that everyone said "He had roid rage" and the cycle continues to misinform the public.

Bit off piste there but you get my point.

Good post Vinney... I agree.


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## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

Zyzz was famous becsuse he took 'flu shots', but his death was to do with his lifestyle. Personally, I have heard of any steroid related death, I dont count Slin/HGH/Synthol as steroids


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

MT5 said:


> people die crossing the road everyday are you going to stop crossing the road....no you put measures in place to minimise/exclude the risk.


These simplistic arguements really p.ss me off. Yes, people do die crossing the road, but crossing the road is ESSENTIAL. So don't make the comparison, it's frankly stupid.

And to all these who say it's just another risk, yes, it is. But why can't we talk about it and discuss it?


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## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

Banning things that work such as steroids and certain types of drugs, just allows people to create 'legal' versions, which are a hell of a lot worse for you. More people die from legal highs, than actual drugs. (not including Heroin) There has been years of research on drugs, and hardly any on the legals. I know which I'd rather stick to if I had to choose.

There no such thing as 'roid rage' If your a w*nker, people use roids as an excuse to become an even bigger one. On my Tren cycle, I was smashing erveryone that got in my way. Its called self control


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Guys I could never use Steroids as I have to inject Humira which keeps me walking after breaking my back.

That sh!t (Humira) is far more dangerous than any steroid concoction you could come up with and I get that from the NHS in a nice little paper bag.


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

cultivator said:


> You cant seriously compare these two comments to gear use


caus i can, if my mate werent so big (roided up) he would've been able to move quicker, hence getting out the way of the milk float...lol

i am joking, you do know that dont ya..


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

Simple- if fannys want to worry about gear use and start trembling about it- then dont contemplate using it or stop using it, the way i see it- i use 750mg of test for a 12 week cycle, then have at least 20 weeks off- i have a goot PCT, and dont crash- i maintain a good 19stone off season and off cycle, never cruise, never drink - dont smoke and dont do orals and get checked out by doc. The health risks are very minimal. Dont be greedy, use sparingly and i cant see any adverse affects to be honest


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

laurie g said:


> *Simple- if fannys want to worry about gear use and start trembling about it*- then dont contemplate using it or stop using it, the way i see it- i use 750mg of test for a 12 week cycle, then have at least 20 weeks off- i have a goot PCT, and dont crash- i maintain a good 19stone off season and off cycle, never cruise, never drink - dont smoke and dont do orals and get checked out by doc. The health risks are very minimal. Dont be greedy, use sparingly and i cant see any adverse affects to be honest


No one is worrying or trembling, and no one asked advice on safe cycling. This thread is about whether steroids can cause/contribute to death. That's what this discussion is about, not "should I take steroids".


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

People who take steroids have been known to die prematurely, so have people who live a healthy drug free lifestyle.

In some of these premature deaths it's quite possible that steroid use was a contributing factor, whether there was an underlying medical condition or not, i don't think there is any denying that.

Steroid use carries health risks and that is a fact, as long as users are aware of that i don't give a fcuk why they use them, it's their choice.


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

the pomposity of those who either are afraid (yes they are afraid to use them and seek every excuse under the sun to blather on about why they dont cos they will kill you innit) to use them or those who "use them for the right reasons" (I mean really, get over yourself, right reasons do not exist unless you are medically prescribed them and even then I would wager a large proportion of those get them to gain) is staggering... the old "steds/roids/gear/insert daft name here will kill you cos it killed my mate/brother/uncle/dogs cousins best cat" is brought up time and again... sure like anything you ingest or inject they have their issues, however there have been studies that have shown that after very long term use in aids or burns victims even the old bugbear of the boards oxy is not as bad on the liver and internals as made out to be... just wish I could find the study conducted on aids victims (or would that be patients) that showed daily use of oxy at fairly high doses didnt cause any problems... but then thats ok cos its the right reasons innit... ffs people if you dont want to use them then dont... if you dont want to become a fatality on the roads then stay home, dont want to choke on that lucious peice of steak then dont eat it and dont want to risk an std then dont [email protected] simples, but ffs dont trot out nebulous rumour mongered aas kills all type stories to further scare monger... each person makes their own choice, weighs up the risks and then either does or doesnt, you choose doesnt dont harp on or ridicule those that choose does...

now imho I dont think they cause death but they can contribute to pre-existing conditions that lead to death, also some aas affect different individuals differently... some people can mega dose for years with narry an effect, others small doses seem to cause every side under the sun...


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

its a numbers game.....how many human being die annually from gear? one ....? 2..?

it won't be much more.

Now look at road deaths or even something daft like fishing...IIRC, more people die fishing than say motorcycle racing.

go pester EVERYONE ELSE on the planet before worrying about gear


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Greyphantom said:


> the pomposity of those who either are afraid (yes they are afraid to use them and seek every excuse under the sun to blather on about why they dont cos they will kill you innit) to use them or those who* "use them for the right reasons" (I mean really, get over yourself, right reasons do not exist unless you are medically prescribed them* and even then I would wager a large proportion of those get them to gain) is staggering... the old "steds/roids/gear/insert daft name here will kill you cos it killed my mate/brother/uncle/dogs cousins best cat" is brought up time and again... sure like anything you ingest or inject they have their issues, however there have been studies that have shown that after very long term use in aids or burns victims even the old bugbear of the boards oxy is not as bad on the liver and internals as made out to be... just wish I could find the study conducted on aids victims (or would that be patients) that showed daily use of oxy at fairly high doses didnt cause any problems... but then thats ok cos its the right reasons innit... ffs people if you dont want to use them then dont... if you dont want to become a fatality on the roads then stay home, dont want to choke on that lucious peice of steak then dont eat it and dont want to risk an std then dont [email protected] simples, but ffs dont trot out nebulous rumour mongered aas kills all type stories to further scare monger... each person makes their own choice, weighs up the risks and then either does or doesnt, you choose doesnt dont harp on or ridicule those that choose does...
> 
> now imho I dont think they cause death but they can contribute to pre-existing conditions that lead to death, also some aas affect different individuals differently... some people can mega dose for years with narry an effect, others small doses seem to cause every side under the sun...


Apologies for having an opinion. <- Sarcasm in its highest quality.

I accept your post and view but its certainly fueled with some, anger isnt the right word but agro or force. I laughed to myself when you mentioned the right reason being prescribed medicinally. My point is I would rather someone use them for application - a contest of some sort than use them to look aggressive and big.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Uriel said:


> go pester EVERYONE ELSE on the planet before worrying about gear


Why do you guys get so aggro about a discussion? What's the problem with just talking about it? It seems to be alot of posters think that if you even suggest steroids can be dangerous then you are just "scared" of talking them. Not at all. Lots of people who have/do take steroids have contributed to this thread constructively.

This isn't only aimed at Uriel, there are a few people seem to object to any kind of talk about the risks of steroids.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

adlewar said:


> my mate got run over by a milk float.......does that mean milks bad for you...lol





MT5 said:


> people die crossing the road everyday are you going to stop crossing the road....no you put measures in place to minimise/exclude the risk.





laurie g said:


> Simple- if fannys want to worry about gear use and start trembling about it- then dont contemplate using it or stop using it, the way i see it- i use 750mg of test for a 12 week cycle, then have at least 20 weeks off- i have a goot PCT, and dont crash- i maintain a good 19stone off season and off cycle, never cruise, never drink - dont smoke and dont do orals and get checked out by doc. The health risks are very minimal. Dont be greedy, use sparingly and i cant see any adverse affects to be honest


Listen you, i think i have a very valid reason to come asking questions like this about gear use. Honestly no need for the fanny comments. Its widely known that gear use can cause death. Im just trying to weigh up all my options up so i know that im not going to fcuk myself up. If i were single with no kids then i wouldnt give a **** but i have people depending on me so im here to rare them properly throughout their life. I would hate it for my kids to bury me and think i was one selfish cnut and wasnt responsable with my actions and end up without a parent all because of vanity/strength gains


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Glassback said:


> Apologies for having an opinion. <- Sarcasm in its highest quality.
> 
> I accept your post and view but its certainly fueled with some, anger isnt the right word but agro or force. I laughed to myself when you mentioned the right reason being prescribed medicinally. My point is I would rather someone use them for application - a contest of some sort than use them to look aggressive and big.


no need to apologise mate, opinions are like ar$eholes, every one knows one  

wasnt actually getting at you tbh... but tbh the "right reasons" really dont include prepping for a comp (vanity as mentioned) or to look big and (chortle) agressive... at least technically... although in my book, you want to use something to make yourself bigger and more muscular go for it, after all chicks can get fake breasts and bottoms and hey thats ok... yadda yadda yadda... tbf mate, that vitriol in my post was the outcome of quite a lot of reading of anti aas posts by people (some not all) who are just too scared to use so therefore attack those that do... I do recognise your issues though with the back thing, out of interest (and perhaps best left to email or pm) how did you do that and do you train still?? my sister has had a disc removed recently and her spine fused so looking to head off any melodrama re "woe is me I cant train anymore" type stuff...


----------



## Vinney (Apr 27, 2011)

cultivator said:


> Listen you, i think i have a very valid reason to come asking questions like this about gear use. Honestly no need for the fanny comments. Its widely known that gear use can cause death. Im just trying to weigh up all my options up so i know that im not going to fcuk myself up. If i were single with no kids then i wouldnt give a **** but i have people depending on me so im here to rare them properly throughout their life. I would hate it for my kids to bury me and think i was one selfish cnut and wasnt responsable with my actions and end up without a parent all because of vanity/strength gains


you've answered your own question mate ... if your that concerned - why risk it?


----------



## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

cultivator said:


> Listen you, i think i have a very valid reason to come asking questions like this about gear use. Honestly no need for the fanny comments. Its widely known that gear use can cause death. Im just trying to weigh up all my options up so i know that im not going to fcuk myself up. If i were single with no kids then i wouldnt give a **** but i have people depending on me so im here to rare them properly throughout their life. I would hate it for my kids to bury me and think i was one selfish cnut and wasnt responsable with my actions and end up without a parent all because of vanity/strength gains


I second this. Some people are waaayy to defensive about steroids, to the extent they just won;t hear a bad word about them.


----------



## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

niall01 said:


> Why do you guys get so aggro about a discussion? What's the problem with just talking about it? It seems to be alot of posters think that if you even suggest steroids can be dangerous then you are just "scared" of talking them. Not at all. Lots of people who have/do take steroids have contributed to this thread constructively.
> 
> This isn't only aimed at Uriel, there are a few people seem to object to any kind of talk about the risks of steroids.


tbh Niall its not the discussion so much as the either outright or veilled bs that goes with it... these posts and discussions are rampant, and really the end result is if you dont want to because you are wary of the outcomes then dont, but if you choose to then fine...


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

like i just said to glass back on pm......worry more about a hairy back and norks much more than death..............death is so final and the worry has gone but boobies look mental on a man...

use safely bros


----------



## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Vinney said:


> you've answered your own question mate ... if your that concerned - why risk it?


He hasn't answered his own question at all - he has simply expressed concern and started a discussion. How do you know he may not feel his concerns were out of proportion and decide to do a cycle after some discussion and thought?


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

niall01 said:


> Why do you guys get so aggro about a discussion? What's the problem with just talking about it? It seems to be alot of posters think that if you even suggest steroids can be dangerous then you are just "scared" of talking them. Not at all. Lots of people who have/do take steroids have contributed to this thread constructively.
> 
> This isn't only aimed at Uriel, there are a few people seem to object to any kind of talk about the risks of steroids.


no aggro here bro but the deaths from gear is VERY low is it not?


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

these "discussions" always end up with natty's getting holier than though and ped users getting defensive...lol

no likey - no touchy.

One of the mods here "Big" always put it well....there is a risk to gear. how much you are willing to take that risk dictates your use or amount of use....(i put it much better than him but he had a point lol)...but the risks are managable for most people.

YES you will always get people who are on a road to an early death and if they happen to use - it will get factored in


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

cultivator said:


> Listen you, i think i have a very valid reason to come asking questions like this about gear use. Honestly no need for the fanny comments. Its widely known that gear use can cause death. Im just trying to weigh up all my options up so i know that im not going to fcuk myself up. If i were single with no kids then i wouldnt give a **** but i have people depending on me so im here to rare them properly throughout their life. I would hate it for my kids to bury me and think i was one selfish cnut and wasnt responsable with my actions and end up without a parent all because of vanity/strength gains


listen hotshot, first show us where aas has been the sole cause of death... anywhere???? the thing with these sorts of posts are that they all shout "AAS CAUSES DEATH" but then cant show where they were soley responsible... they then go one to ridicule those that use and mention yeah but then you walk in front of a truck and BAM dead there too... cos thats different innit???? what the majority of people who use and get so "defensive" (which imho its not defensive in the majority of cases but exascerbation with the whiny nature of the posts ridiculing aas and users and then using that to defend their choice to not use) about is that risk is an inherent part of life, you choose your chances every day... and news flash mate, your kids (god willing) will bury you... they will think what they think based on the kind of person you are/were not what you chose to use or not...


----------



## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Greyphantom said:


> no need to apologise mate, opinions are like ar$eholes, every one knows one
> 
> wasnt actually getting at you tbh... but tbh the "right reasons" really dont include prepping for a comp (vanity as mentioned) or to look big and (chortle) agressive... at least technically... although in my book, you want to use something to make yourself bigger and more muscular go for it, after all chicks can get fake breasts and bottoms and hey thats ok... yadda yadda yadda... tbf mate, that vitriol in my post was the outcome of quite a lot of reading of anti aas posts by people (some not all) who are just too scared to use so therefore attack those that do... I do recognise your issues though with the back thing, out of interest (and perhaps best left to email or pm) how did you do that and do you train still?? my sister has had a disc removed recently and her spine fused so looking to head off any melodrama re "woe is me I cant train anymore" type stuff...


Fair play good post. I will PM you if you are interested as I dont want to bore people on here with it all.. again!

In short though - If I was not on mediciation that lowered my immune system I think I would take something (at this time I dont know enough on it - but still probably more than most!) to push things along and get me stronger for what I do in my own time which is Climb Mountains and General Application type fitness and strength. So I am probably outside of the groups I said it would be OK to take them.

Bloody hypocrite arent I!


----------



## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Greyphantom said:


> tbh Niall its not the discussion so much as the either outright or veilled bs that goes with it... these posts and discussions are rampant, and really the end result is if you dont want to because you are wary of the outcomes then dont, but if you choose to then fine...


Mate, I agree that the "I knew a guy who....." stuff is silly. However, I do think that some people get too defensive. I mean people are saying he is "scared" of taking gear - that doesn't automatically follow from being "concerned".


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

niall01

I beg to differ, he has answered his own question, read the post again. Unless i'm missing something here he states that it's widely know that steroids can cause death, then he says if he was own his own he wouldn't give a **** (starnge attitude but it takes all sorts) then he says he's married with kids etc etc, go figure.


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

there used to be a list on the net that e takers used to show how safe "E" was (i will try find it)

I think paracetamol caused more deaths than "E" and i bet peds are even safer than "E"


----------



## Vinney (Apr 27, 2011)

niall01 said:


> He hasn't answered his own question at all - he has simply expressed concern and started a discussion. How do you know he may not feel his concerns were out of proportion and decide to do a cycle after some discussion and thought?


get off ya soap box mate .. and read what he's put. Anyone who raises those type of personally concerns would be totally contradicting himself.

either way, i cudnt give a monkeys....


----------



## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Uriel said:


> no aggro here bro but the deaths from gear is VERY low is it not?


Yeah, probably almost non existent. All I am defending is the OP's right to ask the question without being called a fanny and accused of being scared. I mean I amn't a natty myself I don't have an axe to grind. You are right, these threads always seem to end this way!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Cocaine 575

Amphetamine 384

Ecstasy 227

Solvents 246[3]

Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976

Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.

Tobacco half a million approx (UK - [1]

Table 2

Number of deaths England and Wales in 2003 and 2004 (substance is mentioned on the death certificate) [4]

2003 2004

Cocaine 113 147

All Amphetamines 66 83

Ecstasy 33 48

Solvents 42 [3] 45 [3]

Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 766 944

Cannabis 11 16

All deaths 2445 2598

Scotland

Scotland uses a slightly different coding system based roughly on ICD 10. Data is also collected on people who have died with a known or suspected drug addiction.

Table 3

Drug-related deaths in Scotland 1998 to 2004 [6]

Cocaine 137

Amphetamine N/a

Ecstasy 93

Solvents

51 [3]

Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 1348


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Well I had my fortune told the other week and I'm going to live into my eighties...........So pass me a 10ml barrel and fill it with tren!!


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

There have been a number of high profile early deaths in BB, Andreas Munzer, Mike Mentzer, Mohammed Benaziza, Paul DeMayo, Don Youngblood, and probably more - but these are the ones that spring to mind right now. How many were directly related to steroid abuse cannot be proven, although according to the coroner on AndreasM's autopsy.

Affecting the liver were numerous table-tennis-ball-sized tumors, typical for doping; half the liver consisted simply of a crumbly mass, similar to polystyrene (Styrofoam)

Diminutive testes

Cardiac hypertrophy (Münzer's heart weighed 636g; a normal man's heart usually weighs 300-350g)

Münzer's electrolytes were also completely out of balance, and his potassium levels were extremely high.

Traces of about twenty different drugs were found, along with acute toxicity

(thanks Wikipedia)

I remember reading about Mom Benaziza at the time, and that there was an acute electrolyte imbalance - potassium I believe that contributed, along with an injection given to him by a friend - don't remember anything specific about the injection though.

The other guys died of complications around other illnesses or pre-existing conditions, I guess no one will really know if these were directly linked to their lifestyle and the substances they used in their profession, but I would suspect that they added to the early demise. So while steroids may not have killed them directly - although with Andreas I would probably say on balance they did - they certainly didn't improve their life expectancy.

But as per other osts - you abuse anything then eventually it wil find a way to bite you.

Cheers

D


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

uk drug deaths

Getting reliable statistics seems to be quite a challenge, as they rarely describe their criteria for drug deaths. However, we hope that these figures will prove useful as a reference.

Drug deaths:

Methadone

Heroin

Temazepan

Amphetamin

Cocaine/Crack

Ecstasy

Cannabis (more details)

LSD 1994

259

90

165

20

21

23

12

1 1996

357

187

95

29

15

12

4

0

Sources: Social Trends, pub. Office of National Statistics, based on research from the Institute for the Study of Drug Dependence. These figures cover 1994-6, and are reproduced as released by the ONS. 1999

UK drug death figures: deaths per annum

Alcohol[1]

Tobacco[1]

The Herb[1,2]

LSD[1]

Peanuts[3]

Viagra[3]

Ecstasy[1]

4,235

120,000

1

0

7

7

4

[1] Hansard figures for 1995.

[2] Death caused by inhaling vomit [Lord's Hansard report on medicinal cannabis]

[3] BBC news


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

1 person died from viagra....lol

i bet his was open casket burial pmsl


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Uriel said:


> 1 person died from viagra....lol
> 
> i bet his was open casket burial pmsl


With a smug look on his face!! Cvnt!!!


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Conscript said:


> With a smug look on his face!! Cvnt!!!


i bet the guy doing the autopsy had an handle on things lol


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

what about flipping the coin over (whatever that means)

how many people on earth has 'roids' helped.......fcuking thousands

and no, not only prescribed med's...


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Uriel said:


> i bet the guy doing the autopsy had an handle on things lol


Haha. No doubt he was hardened to that type of thing.


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## boricuarage (Jan 2, 2011)

Havent read the whole post, but there is no proven fact that steroids kill you, who knows in long term Run, but IMO gear is safer than advil. Yeh take about 17 advils all at once and i guareentee it be your last mutha freaking headache, all Jokes aside get blood work done everytime you off a cycle.

What about chris benoit? Murder is whole family and took his own life; they blamed it on steroids, but guess what he was on all types of crazy meds...

Point is do a proper cycle and you should be fine. If gear was so unsafe then they wouldnt prescribe it as TRT..


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

They Helped Uriel... and Me! Becasue Uriel is so big he is now my Idol. So there is one reason!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Cultivator...... you didnt get that name growing parsley i bet.........does the old ganja cause any issues that worry you lol?


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Uriel said:


> Cutivator...... you didnt get that name growing parsley i bet.........does the old ganja cause any issues that worry you lol?


LMAO! Thats quality...

He does have nervous issues and he always makes sure his cutrains/blinds are all the way down to the bottom of the window. he often looks over his shoulder when walking in the dark and he always double checks the locks on his front and back door.

Dont you Cultivator..


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## boricuarage (Jan 2, 2011)

N-Moo said:


> Until there is proper research it's hard to say... does gear make certain conditions worse? Would people who've had heart problems be genetically predisposed to them anyway?
> 
> What about the difference between sensible use of gear with proper PCT and people who drop anadrol down their necks in huge quantities for months on end, have no PCT and then start another cycle a few weeks after that?
> 
> ...


**** Clen is worse than gear... Powerfull lil pill!!!!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Glassback said:


> LMAO! Thats quality...
> 
> He does have nervous issues and he always makes sure his cutrains/blinds are all the way down to the bottom of the window. he often looks over his shoulder when walking in the dark and he always double checks the locks on his front and back door.
> 
> Dont you Cultivator..


I'm going to look a total vadge if he's a farmer lol


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

DiggyV said:


> There have been a number of high profile early deaths in BB, Andreas Munzer, Mike Mentzer, Mohammed Benaziza, Paul DeMayo, Don Youngblood, and probably more - but these are the ones that spring to mind right now. How many were directly related to steroid abuse cannot be proven, although according to the coroner on AndreasM's autopsy.
> 
> Affecting the liver were numerous table-tennis-ball-sized tumors, typical for doping; half the liver consisted simply of a crumbly mass, similar to polystyrene (Styrofoam)
> 
> ...


wasnt both of those deaths attributed more to the diareutics they hammered, and I mean hammered rather than aas... same thing re mike matterazo (sp) and paul dillett (not deaths but their illnesses and inability to compete due to it)...


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Glassback said:


> They Helped Uriel... and Me! Becasue Uriel is so big he is now my Idol. So there is one reason!


oooh thats a negative though  

aas makes Uriel do all sorts of nasty things, like rubbing boys legs under tables, and you told me I was the only one Uriel... *sob*


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

[



Uriel said:


> Cultivator...... you didnt get that name growing parsley i bet.........does the old ganja cause any issues that worry you lol?


Semi retired,lol, and that is semi retired from growing tomatoes,lol. I have smoked some seriouse weed in mytime but im off the stuff agod while because it has seriously ****ed my head up(that or the party drugs). When i did take weed/party drugs thou i did tend to abuse them. As for the gear, im just trying to weigh everything up. I eat good,train well and now im seriously considering taking gear for a few years. My last cycle freaked me out with the high cholestrol as its a sign that can **** your heart up and i wouldnt want this(dont think anyone would,lol) Im sitting here with over 400tabs tbol for a few months and am busting my balls to start them,lol. Just need abit of conformation that gear is safe enough. I honestly cant see me taking serious amounts of gear, mostly just test cycles and prob a few light cutting one. Dont really want a massive appearnce, id be happy enough with 14-15 stone with low BF but honestly cant see me acheiveing this natty.


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

how many pros with health issues etc were on undisclosed illeagal meds (like nube)...etc, TESTOSTERONE is a very safe compound in the grand scheme


----------



## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Forgive me if I am talking rubbish here but I am sure I have read somewhere that some of the very ill people liberated in the concentration camps were given crude forms of steroid to pack on weight and give them a boost - is there anything behind this story?


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Greyphantom said:


> aas makes Uriel do all sorts of nasty things, like rubbing boys legs under tables, and you told me I was the only one Uriel... *sob*


i thought it was your willy and i dont need gear for that lol


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Glassback said:


> Forgive me if I am talking rubbish here but I am sure I have read somewhere that some of the very ill people liberated in the concentration camps were given crude forms of steroid to pack on weight and give them a boost - is there anything behind this story?


not heard that, i think a few meals would have been enough


----------



## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Uriel said:


> not heard that, i think a few meals would have been enough


Ahh well this is the point - When the Russians found the people at Sobibor or Aushwitz? They fed them rations and most died as there organs couldnt handle the food. Let me find something on this....

Here... Ironically, although they might have helped to kill many people by making German soldiers more aggressive, anabolic steroids saved countless more lives after the war. When allied forces liberated the notorious German concentration "death" camps in 1944 and 1945, the starving and emaciated survivors of the Holocaust (the victims of Hitler's "final solution") were treated with anabolic steroids to help restore their physical health.

Link http://www.fitflex.com/athletics-testosterone-history.html 12th paragraph down.


----------



## Must_Be_HBFS (Jun 21, 2011)

IMO they can contribute to deaths and illnesses.

the media are quick to point the blame at steroids and people on forums hate it.

People on forums are hypocrites - guilty of the exact same thing, they blame everything but steroids.

Zyzz rumoured to be on alot of tren, clen and coke.

People on this forum in " the death of zyzz" thread instantly start blaming the coke. Rather than even think about the possibility that tren might have helped kill him.

As for "if steroids were dangerous they wouldn't prescribe HRT" few points on that.. now I don't know alot about HRT but I highly doubt anything other than testosterone is given and it's at a dose that the body used to be able to produce naturally.

So imo, that arguement is dead in the water. That's like saying taking 20 painkillers mustn't be dangerous because they can be prescribed - pretty sure everyone would agree that's a pretty retarded idea.


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Must_Be_HBFS said:


> IMO they can contribute to deaths and illnesses.
> 
> the media are quick to point the blame at steroids and people on forums hate it.
> 
> ...


your "opinion" is fine for many things (what did you think on dinner, did you like the inbetweeners) etc....it is of no value on how gear effects your health and leads to premature death unless backed up with data mate.

"IMO gear is naughty" is ok.....but you cant say it contributes to death just because you feel like it......it's not clear thinking and smarts of "anti steroids" for the sake of it.....like your "people on forums" attitude lol


----------



## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

cultivator said:


> Semi retired,lol, and that is semi retired from growing tomatoes,lol. I have smoked some seriouse weed in mytime but im off the stuff agod while because it has seriously ****ed my head up(that or the party drugs). When i did take weed/party drugs thou i did tend to abuse them. As for the gear, im just trying to weigh everything up. I eat good,train well and now im seriously considering taking gear for a few years. My last cycle freaked me out with the high cholestrol as its a sign that can **** your heart up and i wouldnt want this(dont think anyone would,lol) Im sitting here with over 400tabs tbol for a few months and am busting my balls to start them,lol. Just need abit of conformation that gear is safe enough. I honestly cant see me taking serious amounts of gear, mostly just test cycles and prob a few light cutting one. Dont really want a massive appearnce, id be happy enough with 14-15 stone with low BF but honestly cant see me acheiveing this natty.


high cholestrol has been given a bad rap apparently, loads of new info coming out that its not too bad a thing (not stupidly high though)... mate I will tell you one thing, nothing is gold guaranteed to be 100% safe, you read the sides and warnings that comes with aspirin?? or kids calpol...??? but I would say that imho aas (just aas and not fat burners like clen etc) are fairly safe in the scheme of things... start low and see how it affects you, if they start to affect you in ways you dont like then stop... most tabs are fast in and out so would clear in no time... and tbh I have to LOL when I read "I wont take serious/massive amounts" (should have YET on the end) and "I dont want to be massive just x stone/kg"... for NOW on the end of that... its a never ending slope my friend...


----------



## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Uriel said:


> i thought it was your willy and i dont need gear for that lol


it was I just dont like to brag  and imagine the surprise on the girls faces when their extra sauce dispenser turned up


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Greyphantom said:


> it was I just dont like to brag  and imagine the surprise on the girls faces when their extra sauce dispenser turned up


yeah they do have those cute tiny bottles in Nandos eh? pmsl.......hot sauce anyone


----------



## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Greyphantom said:


> it was I just dont like to brag  and imagine the surprise on the girls faces when their extra sauce dispenser turned up


Darrens patented Humous cannon "LMFAO"


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have not read every post but i can guess how the thread has gone......i am sure for everyone who has said steroids don't kill there has been more than 2 members saying things like "yea that's what i expected to hear on here" the thing is no one will ever prove that steroid use has caused a single death, now that does not mean they do not it means it is virtually impossible to prove BUT unless the person in question did nothing else unhealthy like drink, smoke, eat fatty foods, use NSAID's etc then how can you possible contribute a single death to steroid use......

if steroids did kill that many with the thousands and thousands of men and women using them don't you think more people would be dying?? steroids do not kill if they did they would not be used in the medical world it is how you use them and the length of use that can cause issues......

let us for one minute believe that all the people mentioned by the OP did die of steroids how does that compare to the amount of people who die from issues related to drink, smoke or obesity every day what is the percentage? now before i get jumped on by the naturals with the common quote of "why do you always say "more die of smoking etc" every time this is brought up" it is said because it is relevant.....i know many guys who use big doses of steroids but are more healthy than others who do not use steroids but smoke and drink every weekend as if it was nothing......



N-Moo said:


> Until there is proper research it's hard to say... does gear make certain conditions worse? Would people who've had heart problems be genetically predisposed to them anyway?
> 
> What about the difference between sensible use of gear with proper PCT and people who drop anadrol down their necks in huge quantities for months on end, have no PCT and then start another cycle a few weeks after that?
> 
> ...


my point is proven in the bold above......Zyzz used much more than steroids yet steroids is the subject of his death? why.....

until proper research is carried out no one will ever know the truth but the facts are that when you compare the numbers to the deaths from other things the percentage is very very small.....


----------



## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i have not read every post but i can guess how the thread has gone......i am sure for everyone who has said steroids don't kill there has been more than 2 members saying things like "yea that's what i expected to hear on here" the thing is no one will ever prove that steroid use has caused a single death, now that does not mean they do not it means it is virtually impossible to prove BUT unless the person in question did nothing else unhealthy like drink, smoke, eat fatty foods, use NSAID's etc then how can you possible contribute a single death to steroid use......
> 
> if steroids did kill that many with the thousands and thousands of men and women using them don't you think more people would be dying?? steroids do not kill if they did they would not be used in the medical world it is how you use them and the length of use that can cause issues......
> 
> ...


Got to agree with this.


----------



## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Uriel said:


> Darrens *potent *Humous cannon "LMFAO"


fixed it for ya mate  x


----------



## boricuarage (Jan 2, 2011)




----------



## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Glassback said:


> Got to agree with this.


and I have to agree with this


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

The thread has evolved as I thought it might.Members jumping to the defence of AAS.The routine illogical comparisons.Yeah we know trucks can kill you , a lot of things can.Cultivator was enquiring if anybody knew of any deaths that were directly atributable to use.Im sure many old & infirm people die due to intolerance of medication all the time.I was on a heart drug for a year.The Possible complications were:liver failure, thyroid failure, reduction of lung capacity,intolerance to sunlight etc.Hopefully I escaped them.Steroids are marvelous compounds with the abilty to heal & preserve life.However, as with any powerful compound, they seem to make certain users vunerable, to health complications.If getting big was that high on my priorities, Id be using them too.However, Id be aware that long term, high use might lead to health issues.You pays your money and you takes your choice.Just dont blinker yourself to the potential they posess.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

I nearly choked on a dbol once, meh, you run with wolves you might get bitten...


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Greyphantom said:


> and I have to agree with this


I agree


----------



## Rick_86 (May 12, 2011)

Think of Testosterone first.

Of all the AAS steroids produced, test esters like Cypionate and Enanthate tend to have the lowest negative impact on health when taken in moderately supratherapeutic doses (such as 300-400 mg) for muscle building and performance-enhancing purposes. Test provides a hormone identical to that already produced in your body, presenting the same spectrum of physical and physiological effects. In addition to being one of the most effecient muscle builders out there, Test generally has a positive effect on libido, supports necessary estrogen so that cholesterol levels are less negatively shifted and gains can be made during cycles. Orals are NOT needed on a first cycle. Testosterone alone will do provided dosing is sufficient, proper protocols are followed and diet/nutrition are up to par.

Use Health Support Supplements

AAS users out there can help lower the negative health impact of steroid use with the consumption of health support supplements. To begin with, the negative cardiovascular effects of these synthetic hormones can be offset (at least to some degree) with cholesterol supplements. Fish oil is recommended as a base, which should be stacked with a number of other clinically studied cholesterol support ingredients including green tea, garlic powder, resveratrol, phytosterols, niacin, and policosino. The blended product Lipid Stabil by MN includes these ingredients and is recommended IMO. Cholesterol support supplements should be taken at all times during AAS cycles to be on the safe side. Next, those taking oral steroids should be reducing liver strain witha liver support supplement. Recommended products include Liver Stabil, Liv52, Liver Juice, Liver Longer, UDCA, and Essentiale Forte. One of these products should be taken at all times during cycles with hepatotoxic agents in the mix. Keep in mind though, supplementation of these has been noted to break down the greater amount of the oral during administration. Something to think about..

Always cycle Steroids.

A steroid cycle usually consists of 6-12 weeks depending on the compounds you are using, followed by an equal period of time or more abstaining from all AAS INCLUDING PCT. This practice is advised for a number of reasons. For one, as you supplement these synthetic hormones your body will reduce the production of its own testosterone. Cycling helps reduce the risk of developing long-term fertility and hormonal issues, which are sometime caused by uninterrupted use of steroids for many months or years. Cycling also lets your general markers of health (such as cholesterol levels, hematocrit, and blood pressure) return to their normal state periodically, reducing the impact of temporary changes may have over time. Those guys out there that you see using AAS for a long durations without interruption of run a greater risk that these negative changes in health markers will results in long-term health issues.

Use Reasonable Dosages

High doses of AAS are not necessary to achieve significant muscle growth for novices, especially if these newbies goals are moderate physique or performance enhancement. A dose limit of 350mg - 400mg per week on injectables is more than enough. In the case of Test C, 400mg per week equates to at least 4-5 times the level of hormone naturally produced in your body. This level of use will sure as hell produce dramatic muscle gain if combined with proper training and diet. In fact, during the 1970's and 80's the dosage range of 200-400mg per week was considered "standard" for the bodybuilding use of Test, 19nor's, Bold, or Dbol. Hench why none of them get bloated as hell like you see plenty of the IFBB pros walking around today. There is little real need for extreme doses of 750-1000mg or more of AAS per week, or to supplement an injectable base with additional orals (unless as stated before, you want to become Mr. Olympia one day, or you have plateaued in all your previous cycles) High doses may produce faster gains, but are generally not cost effective for the extra muscle they provide. Additionally, high doses of steroids greatly increase cardiovascular strain and the incidence of other side effects.

Get Regular Blood Tests

Comprehensive blood testing including an examination of hormones, cholesterol, blood cell concentrations, and enzymes is the most use tool for assessing the negative health impact of AAS use. Changes in cholesterol, for example, can help quantify for the user what effect a particular drug regimen is having on their cardiovascular health. The individual then has the opportunity to better assess long-term risk if this cycle is to be repeated. At a minimum, blood testing should be conducted before a cycle is initiated 3-4 weeks intoa cycle, and a month or 2 after a cycle. This allows for 1) a baseline of later comparison; 2) a snapshot of the on-cycle health impact; and 3) an opportunity to assess if natural homeostasis has been restored post-cycle.

Use Proper Injection Procedues

I won't even bother with elaborating my ideas on this. Enough has been clarified else where in this forum board all referenced in the educational threads. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION

Watch your Diet

AAS can allow one to significantly more latitude with their diet than normal. The caloric demand typically increases due to the effects of these drugs on muscle mass and metabolism, allowing more calories to be consumed each day without adding fat mass. It is important not to let this latitude affect your health in a negative way. Remember, the use of steroids at a physique and and performance-enhancing doses is expected to cause an unfavorable shift in cholesterol levels and other cardiovascular health markers, favoring a higher risk of cardiovascular disease. Simultaneously feeding your body greater amounts of saturated fats, cholesterol and simple carbs can make the impact of these hormones even worse. Diets low in saturated fats, cholesterol, and simple sugars are recommended, and are known to reduce cardiovascular disease risk. Note, however, that diet alone is not effective at countering the negative cardiovascular effects of AAS use, but dietary restrictions can reduce these risks..

Always Consider Reward AND Risk.

It can be easy to ignore the potential health impact of steroid use when the positive benefits are so rapid and the negative consequences so remote. At the end of the day, however, it is very important to remember that the use of steroids in doses sufficient to support short term muscle gain are virtually always going to have some negative impact on your body. Your cholesterol will shift in an unfavorable direction, your blood pressure may go up a little bit, and you may ever so slightly thicken the ventricles in your heart. Your hormones are out of balance when you take synthetic hormones, which will invariably cause other things to go out of balance. Steroid use is rarely dangerous over a short term period. These hormonal drugs are acutely very safe. As use continues over the years, however, these short-term periods accumulate, and total on-cycle time may become very long. Always remember to consider the risks as well as the rewards of each cycle. Choosing your drug program carefully and keeping the negative effects of steroid use in check over the short term is the best way to reduce long term risks.


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## usernameneeded (Sep 24, 2009)

as has been said before you know what the chance of harm happaning are and u decide if its what u want to do

yeah you could get ill or die quicker by doing aas but then again u could "take" 1 peanut and die, yet i could eat them all day

as well as people die from from having sex but we dont think "should i have sex i heard mr jones down the street had sex last thur and was found dead on thur morn"

yeah death happens every day . as long as you think about the things you do why stop yourself from doing something u want to do just incase.

give it a try the safest way u can if its still worring u just stop

life is short


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Last night my heart went in to minor spasm for about 2 minutes, but that was after a large line of cocaine so that was probably the cause


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Raptor said:


> Last night my heart went in to minor spasm for about 2 minutes, but that was after a large line of cocaine so that was probably the cause


as a jock - mine does that every time i fill my motor with diesel


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Uriel said:



> as a jock - mine does that every time i fill my motor with diesel


Then you drive off to pick up your free prescriptions while musing over which university to prepare your littlen for!


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

There's a difference in test & AAS?

But test is anabolic...


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Raptor said:


> Last night my heart went in to minor spasm for about 2 minutes, but that was after a large line of cocaine so that was probably the cause


Think about that.

What have you done more of?


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Conscript said:


> Then you drive off to pick up your free prescriptions while musing over which university to prepare your littlen for!


lol, i haven't lived there for 27 years bro.......lucky me, i get the chip on each shoulder - the universal alkys accent and none of the perks pmsl


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Uriel said:


> as a jock - mine does that every time i fill my motor with diesel


Lol can be worrying



IrishRaver said:


> Think about that.
> 
> What have you done more of?


Its difficult for me not to take as some friends always have it on them and give me lines for free

Last night after a hardcore biceps / back session i ended up doing some with friends and then got home and didn't eat lol

Just went to bed after a gruelling workout not feeling hungry at all lol, luckily i'm cutting


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Greyphantom said:


> wasnt both of those deaths attributed more to the diareutics they hammered, and I mean hammered rather than aas... same thing re mike matterazo (sp) and paul dillett (not deaths but their illnesses and inability to compete due to it)...


I certainly think Momo was diuretics, however Andreas basically bled out internally, and according to a number of reports I read (non-scandalising BTW) his organs were shot. As per the quote on the state of his liver.

However as per original post - all things in moderation, and correctly administered and monitored. Not just stuff as much in as possible and train like a mother****er.

Cheers

Diggy


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

essexboy said:


> The thread has evolved as I thought it might.Members jumping to the defence of AAS.The routine illogical comparisons.Yeah we know trucks can kill you , a lot of things can.Cultivator was enquiring if anybody knew of any deaths that were directly atributable to use.Im sure many old & infirm people die due to intolerance of medication all the time.I was on a heart drug for a year.The Possible complications were:liver failure, thyroid failure, reduction of lung capacity,intolerance to sunlight etc.Hopefully I escaped them.Steroids are marvelous compounds with the abilty to heal & preserve life.However, as with any powerful compound, they seem to make certain users vunerable, to health complications.If getting big was that high on my priorities, Id be using them too.However, Id be aware that long term, high use might lead to health issues.You pays your money and you takes your choice.Just dont blinker yourself to the potential they posess.


but that is my point no one is blinkered to the possible health issues they bring....my annoyance at these type of threads many will preach but then go and get smashed on the weekends but just because they don't do 3g of gear a week they are healthy.......



Uriel said:


> as a jock - mine does that every time i fill my motor with diesel


this happens to us all mate....



DiggyV said:


> I certainly think Momo was diuretics, however Andreas basically bled out internally, and according to a number of reports I read (non-scandalising BTW) his organs were shot. As per the quote on the state of his liver.
> 
> However as per original post - all things in moderation, and correctly administered and monitored. Not just stuff as much in as possible and train like a mother****er.
> 
> ...


Momo was diuretics he only used blended apples for fluid whilst using alot of diuretics........Munzer was a combination of drugs and diuretics but if you have ever seen the list of drugs he took i think that would be considered abuse....


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> Momo was diuretics he only used blended apples for fluid whilst using alot of diuretics........Munzer was a combination of drugs and diuretics but if you have ever seen the list of drugs he took i think that would be considered abuse....


 :thumbup1:

Cheers

D


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## beanpole (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm not really clued up on steroids tbh. however, my brother has worked on high dependancy unit and intensive care for many many years. He's told me that he has seen many bbs that have had a very thick wall on left ventricle, leading to eventual death. But, these may have been the ones that weren't careful and didnt monitor themselves properely as some one on this thread previously suggested.

Some people are idiots and theres nothing like peer pressure. Trying to be bigger than dan the man and just focussing on that alone, rather than doing it a bit slower, but reducing the risk of death or health problems, assesing what body your starting with, if heart problems run in your family etc, seems to be a trend of modern society in general. Every1 wants things done yesterday.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying no1 should take them, but just to make informed decisions and constantly monitor your health and blood, and treat your body like a temple.

Some1 said life's short. yes... it'll be alot shorter if you take unessasary risks and abuse your body.

In racing they say you don't know your limit till you've crashed, but in life, you don't get that luxury.

... don't have nightmares now ... :confused1:


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

This thread amuses me so much the fact that there is so much concern over steroid users yet in the last 10 years diabetes has risen 40% in the general population - e.g. 4 in 10 people more have a disease gained because of the awful diets. Perhaps people should stop pointing fingers at minority sports and PED use and look at the real problems - their own lives!

I'm sure for every one steroid user with problems there are probably 1000x that many with diet problems (eg heart probs/diabetes etc).


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