# DP KETO DIET



## DRED

as from monday 5th jan i will be following the keto diet......

picture and starting weight to follow.....

here is the diet.....

Diet 2009<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o> </o>

For a 250lb+ man:<o></o>

Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/T<o></o>

<o> </o>

Meal 2, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

Meal 3, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO<o></o>

<o> </o>

Meal 4, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

<o> </o>

Meal 5, 8oz STEAK with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL<o></o>

8OZ TURKEY<o></o>

8OZ PORK<o></o>

8OZ BEEF<o></o>

<o> </o>

Meal 6, 6 whole eggs/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O,3,6,9<o></o>

<o> </o>

<o> </o>

SUPPS;<o></o>

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO<o></o>

OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9<o></o>

MULTI VIT/MV<o></o>

TRIB/T<o></o>

ZINC/Z<o></o>

PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH<o></o>

<o> </o>


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## Kezz

I am doing that too , good luck


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## DRED

Kezz said:


> I am doing that too , good luck


cheers kezz..i read your starting diet tomorrow thead.....that was some great weight loss on there buddy :cool2:

and lookin H U G E after dropping the weight


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## Kezz

Thanks mate


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## DrNo

awesome good luck maybe if all goes well might step up and give it a go


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## jonti1leg

what does the EPO do for us ?


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## POPPA BEAR

Dred if thats you in the avi.... You're a f'kin unit mate.... Are you gonna do a journal or is this it lol?


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## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Dred if thats you in the avi.... You're a f'kin unit mate.... Are you gonna do a journal or is this it lol?


yes mate incase you wernt sure i am the one on the left in the avi....

i hope to make it a journal....


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## DRED

jonti1leg said:


> what does the EPO do for us ?


evening primrose oil....i am taking it as thats what it says to take.

to be honest mate i dont know what its for lol :thumbup1:


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## Kezz

lol my missus asked me the same question and i gave her the same answer!!!!


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## POPPA BEAR

Damn was hoping that you were lee preist...


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## LiftHeavy

will you be using this thread for a journal or starting a journal? Just curious as i am looking at starting this diet around 6 weeks time so would like to follow ur progress. What are you goals how much are you aimimg to lose? Whats your stats at the minute?


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## hackskii

Keto diets are simple, and work very well for most..........

That diet looks cool, but honestly I would like to see less shakes, and more whole foods.

After all the keto diet is about 140 plus years old, then was refined about 40 plus years ago........


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## LiftHeavy

would you recommend 8oz of tuna for meal 2 and only have a shake post workout then?


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## DRED

hackskii said:


> Keto diets are simple, and work very well for most..........
> 
> That diet looks cool, but honestly I would like to see less shakes, and more whole foods.
> 
> After all the keto diet is about 140 plus years old, then was refined about 40 plus years ago........


hi scott the shakes are just for ease at work but at the weekends when i have more time i may stick whole foods in.....

paul :beer:


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## Ollie B

That Keto diet look extreme with not many carbs, the fats are high but you are gonna need energy from somewhere. Good luck dude, will pop in on this thread from time to time. Nice avvy with Lee there


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## DRED

LiftHeavy said:


> will you be using this thread for a journal or starting a journal? Just curious as i am looking at starting this diet around 6 weeks time so would like to follow ur progress. What are you goals how much are you aimimg to lose? Whats your stats at the minute?


hi mate i will be making this a journal......

my goals are to have a 6 pack.....i was always the chubby kid at school mate and to be honest i have never managed to stick to the diets...

but this seems so simple i am givin this 1000%...

stats i am gonna post monday because i am eating anything that moves at the moment :thumb: its christmas....lol


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## DRED

Ollie B said:


> That Keto diet look extreme with not many carbs, the fats are high but you are gonna need energy from somewhere. Good luck dude, will pop in on this thread from time to time. Nice avvy with Lee there


cheers ollie i agree the diet does look harsh with almost zero carbs,but from what i have read thats what a keto diet is all about.

you burn fat for energy and i think i got enough for a small village!! lol


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## Ollie B

Would be good to see how you cope energy wise on this. I know a few people that have done this, its a bit extreme.


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## ParaManiac

DRED said:


> hi scott the shakes are just for ease at work but at the weekends when i have more time i may stick whole foods in.....
> 
> paul :beer:


EPO is an omega 6 rich efa (particularly high in GLA)

Agree with Scott,more whole foods where possible.

I'd also add more veg (Broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage,cauliflower, courgettes, green and runner beans,mushrooms, onions, peppers, spinach)

and replace the 369 caps with fish oils(getting enough 6 & 9 from other supps and food)

Best of luck :thumbup1:


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## DRED

ParaManiac said:


> EPO is an omega 6 rich efa (particularly high in GLA)
> 
> Agree with Scott,more whole foods where possible.
> 
> I'd also add more veg (Broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage,cauliflower, courgettes, green and runner beans,mushrooms, onions, peppers, spinach)
> 
> and replace the 369 caps with fish oils(getting enough 6 & 9 from other supps and food)
> 
> Best of luck :thumbup1:


cheers i was gonna add mushrooms and onions to the eggs and some greens with the evening meal.

cheers will now be using omega 3 instead of 3,6,9...


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## jonti1leg

dred, my goals are identical. it may not appear bad on my pic but i too have a decent layer of bodyfat around the stomach area, top abs are "starting" to come through but need them all... i was worried bout energy levels going on this but is seems to wok ok for such a lot of people, i may give it a go but as advised above, replace the shakes with whole foods,,turkey perhaps like i am at the mo, but cut the rice out. Have you tried "Good Oil" from sainsburys, instead of Olive. tis rich in O369 and there is a "light" version too.. i add it to my turkey for extra.


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## POPPA BEAR

Dred, adding green veg and salad leaves are fine, onions and peppers (especially red) can knock you out of ketosis, so caution should be shown when adding them to meals.


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## invisiblekid

Keto diets always look extreme on paper - but the point is, as said, to switch your source of fuel from sugars to fats.

IIRC up to 30g of carbs are allowed per day. Very few of which should come from starchy carbs. I'd like to see at least two servings of broccoli in there, but I think red peppers should be cut out.

Ollie - his main fuel will be fat, whether it be the fats he's comsuming or the fat he already has stored. And in actual fact, most people on keto diets get an engery boost after they hit ketosis. His muscle should be spared provided cals don't drop too low.

edit: Agreed with Poppa, red peppers shouldn't be included in this diet.


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## Lift

Ollie B said:


> That Keto diet look extreme with not many carbs, the fats are high but you are gonna need energy from somewhere. Good luck dude, will pop in on this thread from time to time. Nice avvy with Lee there


If you add/increase the carbs you will lose/prevent ketosis. The fact that you are merely taking in trace amounts of carbs forces your body to resort to other sources of enegry, fat (ketosis).

I have been on this diet for exactly 1 week tomorrow. I did not have any problem with mood. I did have a constant lack of energy for the first few days however, and craved almost any type of food I set eyes on.

As of yesterday however I have felt constantly comfy and content. I feel I have the energy to work out a little better. I had reduced training session time and incresed the weight, decreased the reps.

I will be running this diet until March 7th.....

to the OP: Good luck with this mate! The last 2 days before you fall into ketosis are the worst! Its almost like your body is making its final stand in its effort to find carbs! The you enter the eye of the storm and its calm


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## Kezz

they say the cheat meal should be the last meal of the day and try and have 400g of carbs?? how on earth can you eat that amount all at once?? i will add them throughout the day i think, like staek and chips 5 times in a row!!


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## Lift

i was under the impression that we were to keep carbs below say 300-400 grams not above


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## Kezz

even so its a lot to cram in in just one meal, why cant you have them spread out during the day??


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## DB

Kezz said:


> even so its a lot to cram in in just one meal, why cant you have them spread out during the day??


because the idea of a cheat meal is to be one meal.. so only one spike in insulin etc..

a whole day cheating and allowing your body to feed and replenish slowly and will tell it to come out of ketosis and you're back to square one..


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## Lift

^^^^^^Exactly^^^^^^^


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## DB

Kezz said:


> they say the cheat meal should be the last meal of the day and try and have 400g of carbs?? how on earth can you eat that amount all at once?? i will add them throughout the day i think, like staek and chips 5 times in a row!!


You see dude..

Diets are planned and should be stuck too..

otherwise when people change stuff and it doesnt work they bitch and moan

you get it all the time when dieting for shows.. ''oh my coach had me on x amount of carbs and i didnt come in tight enough'' blah blah..

but did your coach tell u to have doughnuts and fruit juice when u needed that extra hit?? nope! so many people cheat and blame it on someone else


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## Kezz

ah right, i wasnt sure about the insulin thing as i thought even 1 carb meal would take you out of ketosis...... whats the score with these people having skip days then on the same diet as this??


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## POPPA BEAR

DP says try to limit to under 500g carbs on 1 meal and it should be the last meal of the day..


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## Guest

Kezz said:


> ah right, i wasnt sure about the insulin thing as i thought even 1 carb meal would take you out of ketosis...... whats the score with these people having skip days then on the same diet as this??


 Only for a few hours.

1 meal its your final meal, take UP TO 500grams of carbs if you want less then take less, some people wish to/can handle more carbs than others.


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## POPPA BEAR

Kezz i think the skip days are on a version of the diet thats been tweaked by some bloke called skip.... I think Lyle Macdonald advises up to 24 hours carb loading on his keto diet on mesomorphosis.com


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## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Dred, adding green veg and salad leaves are fine, onions and peppers (especially red) can knock you out of ketosis, so caution should be shown when adding them to meals.


cheers the onoins and peppers are history :thumb:


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## hackskii

The introduction of carbohydrates in a cheat meal for a keto diet is done for 3 reasons I can think of off hand.

1. glycogen replenishment

2. stops the thyroid from shutting down

3. cortisol management, keto diets tend to elivate cortisol which is catabolic.


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## DRED

this is me today 17s7lb/248lb....my goal is to get down to 200lb and see what i look like then....


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## POPPA BEAR

Fair play you're a strong looking fella, reckon you'll look pretty good cut up !

Better starting point than me anyway matey...


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## Bulldozer

Your a similar build / stats to me mate.

I reckon you would look awesome after the diet.

Good luck :thumbup1:


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## Guest

PMSL at your shirt!

Looking thick mate.


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## DRED

cheers guys the diet seems simple to follow which is good for me,no messing around....

just see how it makes me feel...i think once the first few days are out the way then it should be happy days :thumb:


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## DRED

Con said:


> PMSL at your shirt!
> 
> Looking thick mate.


lol con never new i had it on....

who is anabol lector? :confused1:


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## DRED

ok i got a few bits from holland & barretts yesterday....

omega 3 fish oil:£9.49 for 250x1000mg caps

evening primrose oil;£5.99 for 120x1300mg caps

psyllium husks;£9.99 for 200x500mg caps.....

i got these because i needed them asap,just wondering if there about any cheaper?


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## POPPA BEAR

Have you looked on my protein bro ?


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## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Have you looked on my protein bro ?


i have not poppa bear but i will cheers :thumb:


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## FATBOY

nice one m8 looks like a lot of people are trying this diet this year , i would just say it dosent suite everyone so dont be afraid to tweak it to suite yourself nothing is set in stone

good luck with it


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## Nytol

DRED said:


> this is me today 17s7lb/248lb....my goal is to get down to 200lb and see what i look like then....


I think you are too big to drop that much mate, esp if you add some more muscle at the same time.

Don't get hung up on the numbers.


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## DRED

Nytol said:


> I think you are too big to drop that much mate, esp if you add some more muscle at the same time.
> 
> Don't get hung up on the numbers.


true its back to the trusty mirror to be my guide :cool2:


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## J.B.

Hi Dred,

all the best with the plan mate.

Im starting the same as of mon 5th, i imagine im a little taller than you (im 6' 5'') and a little heavier but generally we appear to have a similar build. Its going to be very interesting for me to see how you progress mate and will give me motivation to keep goin if i struggle.

All the best and will keep you posted on how im doing etc..


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## DB

FATBOY said:


> nice one m8 looks like a lot of people are trying this diet this year , i would just say it dosent suite everyone so dont be afraid to tweak it to suite yourself nothing is set in stone
> 
> good luck with it


be careful with that imo..

not much you can really tweak with a ketosis diet

also the ratios of 1.5g pro and 0.5g fat are based on the individual being 12% BF i think.. so surely for those higher in BF they should be doing it a little lower imo


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## DRED

J.B. said:


> Hi Dred,
> 
> all the best with the plan mate.
> 
> Im starting the same as of mon 5th, i imagine im a little taller than you (im 6' 5'') and a little heavier but generally we appear to have a similar build. Its going to be very interesting for me to see how you progress mate and will give me motivation to keep goin if i struggle.
> 
> All the best and will keep you posted on how im doing etc..


thanks J.B :thumbup1:

a little taller i am only 5ft8 :thumbdown:


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## POPPA BEAR

DB said:


> be careful with that imo..
> 
> not much you can really tweak with a ketosis diet
> 
> also the ratios of 1.5g pro and 0.5g fat are based on the individual being 12% BF i think.. so surely for those higher in BF they should be doing it a little lower imo


DB i think on one of the us sites they suggested using total bodyweight for the macros if you're under 15% and using lean weight if you're 15%+....

seems like quite a good idea to me, any thoughts ?


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## Nytol

DB said:


> be careful with that imo..
> 
> not much you can really tweak with a ketosis diet
> 
> also the ratios of 1.5g pro and 0.5g fat are based on the individual being 12% BF i think.. so surely for those higher in BF they should be doing it a little lower imo


I've not read this whole thread of the other one on 'Dave's' diet, 

But studies have shown that more fat leads to more body fat loss.

Two groups ate the same cals, one ate, (cant remember exact ratios), say 80/20 Protein/Fat, one 50/50, and the 50/50 group burned more fat cals.

The abstract was published in MD a few issues back.

So getting the fat in is essential for maximum fat loss, not only to function properly.


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## DRED

hi gg at least i no what the epo is for now :thumb:


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## hackskii

Keto diets are very simple, ketosis is the goal.

Too many carbs, too much protein, or too little fats all will keep you out of what you are trying to accomplish.

EPO has been studied extensivly by Barry Sears, he bet all his marbles on this one, only to come out a bit disappointed.

If my memory serves me right (12 years ago I remember reading), 1800mg of GLA a day made men lose weight without dieting.

EPO is awesome but expensive.

Great for women, best one actually.

I found it lowered my BP and I felt calmer on it.

Good news when on gear.

I would vary all fats on the keto diet, I think you guys are getting way too concerned with your fat sources.

Atkins has done tons of blood on keto diet people, even high saturated fats tend to not make a diffrence and actually lipid profiles improve on a keto diet as all fats are being burned.

Dont re-invent the wheel here, keep it simple.

30 grams or less of carbohydrates a day, all the fat and protein you want.

If you dont get into ketosis, drop the carbs lower, lower the protein, up the fats.


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## DRED

cheers scott :beer:


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## jassdhali

Im starting the same on Monday - picked up all my tabs and whey protein today, got my physillium Husk through the post thanks to MP. just pick up my chicken & beef tomorrow for the next 7 days as I am gonna be on nights. Will be taking body measurements rather than relying too heavily on scales. Gonna run for 10 weeks.


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## POPPA BEAR

HACKS do you rate the standard keto, I.e 65/30/5% macros over this version ?


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## hackskii

I think you only need as much protein as your body needs, all the rest of the calories can come from fat.

Determine the amount of protein to support lean tissue, then add the fat calls in.

Adding in more protein than you need wont do anything of value here, in fact it can kick out out of ketosis and this is the whole objective.


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## POPPA BEAR

Cheers mate, i keep getting told that this diet is more for bbers whereas the standard keto is just for "normal" people, tbh i quite liked the higher fat and slightly lower protein on the other diet...


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## hackskii

POPPA BEAR said:


> Cheers mate, i keep getting told that this diet is more for bbers whereas the standard keto is just for "normal" people, tbh i quite liked the higher fat and slightly lower protein on the other diet...


You are correct, but due to training this is why you add in a refeed day for glycogen replenishment.


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## POPPA BEAR

I totally get that mate and i was refeeding just the same, also it is MUCH easier to hit ketosis if you initially put fat levels way up high (70%) for the 1st few days...

Ive also read low carbs can supress test level, do you think this is correct ?


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## hackskii

POPPA BEAR said:


> Ive also read low carbs can supress test level, do you think this is correct ?


Yah, but so can low fat diets, loss of sleep, sleep apnea, zinc defiencies, etc, etc, etc.....lol

I would not worry about that much.


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## philip41

Just finished reading this whole thread, some interesting ideas.

Good luck to all who take up the diet.

I have been using CKD for about 6 weeks prior to xmas, all i can say is it is great, no carb cravings for me.

Not to much energy loss either.

The only real downside is the flat look and feeling, but the refeed at the weekend helps with that.

Just make sure you get plenty of green veg in there or you may well clog up.


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## hilly

POPPA BEAR said:


> Ive also read low carbs can supress test level, do you think this is correct ?


nothing i jab or 2 of test wont fix


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## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> nothing i jab or 2 of test wont fix


indeed :thumb:


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## DRED

i have weighed myself this morning as i wont have time tomorrow morning with goin to work...

i still weigh 17.7/248lb;

height;5ft8

chest;50

waist;38

legs;26

calves;17

arms;18

forearm;14

neck;18

i wont weigh myself everyday but once a week..

the diet will stay the same except for the refeed in 2 weeks,i will list that.

i will also list training days and what is done...

cheers for all the comments and advice so far....it all helps:beer:


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## Brizo

Bookmarked this as I plan to start it myself in a few weeks.

I think I have the diet part good to go, I have a question about training though

Normally I train 3 days per week, I know it's recommended to up the weight and lower the volume on this - does anyone think I'd be better to change to 4 days per week? (lowering the volume for each day)

Also, do you do cardio from the start or add it in as weight loss slows?


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## LiftHeavy

i will be following this diet soon too just gettin everything in place and ordering more supps. I currently do a 4 day split chest/tris back/bi's legs shoulders/abbs and when on this diet i think i will do 30mins cardio each morning before breakfast and lift in the vening. Do any of the more experienced guys think this is ok? the amount of cardio?


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## LiftHeavy

how have you found the diet so far greekgoddess, hows ur energy levels during cardio and training sessions? i am thinking of starting around feb and running for 8-10 weeks so just looking to get everything in place before i start


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## hilly

i start this diet 2moro but wont start cardio until i stop loosing weight.


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## DRED

LiftHeavy said:


> i will be following this diet soon too just gettin everything in place and ordering more supps. I currently do a 4 day split chest/tris back/bi's legs shoulders/abbs and when on this diet i think i will do 30mins cardio each morning before breakfast and lift in the vening. Do any of the more experienced guys think this is ok? the amount of cardio?


from what i have read i think its no cardio to start with,and then bring in the cardio later.


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## LiftHeavy

its just im very active with boxing and rugby twice a week so i could cut the cardio down from 7 days till 3 days a week, then when the weight slows up the cardio. I had previously thought of taking clen for 6weeks along with the diet to help me reach my goal of 13% bf which im at 18% now.


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## DRED

ok all my food is ready for tomorrow + 5 ltrs of water...

also i have whole peanuts instead of peanut butter...

2 tablespoons of peanut butter is the same as 39 peanuts....2oz


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## DRED

LiftHeavy said:


> its just im very active with boxing and rugby twice a week so i could cut the cardio down from 7 days till 3 days a week, then when the weight slows up the cardio. I had previously thought of taking clen for 6weeks along with the diet to help me reach my goal of 13% bf which im at 18% now.


imo i would not take the clen and just see how the diet goes...and just do your boxing and rugby for cardio :thumb:


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## LiftHeavy

i thought i read over at muscular development he wouldnt recommend chaning the diet he would add CLEN or/and increase cardio? What are his own fat burners?


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## DRED

tbh this is not a hard diet to follow and all i would say is give the diet a chance before you start adding fat burners and extra bits....

then you will know how you respond to this diet...


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## LiftHeavy

yea im not going to use the clen i was 17.4 stone 4months ago with diet and training im now 14.7 stone and im looking at starting this diet in feb to lose the last 1.2 stone so dont think i will be needed any clen or fat burners.


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## DRED

LiftHeavy said:


> yea im not going to use the clen i was 17.4 stone 4months ago with diet and training im now 14.7 stone and im looking at starting this diet in feb to lose the last 1.2 stone so dont think i will be needed any clen or fat burners.


well done on the weight loss mate,a similar starting weight to me...


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## chopperead

I have also started this diet but havent been training, tommorrow will be first day back in the gym since Christmas.

What should i eat if anything before my morning workout 6:30am and what should i eat after my workout?

I used to have a protein and oats shake pre workout and a protein/malto&dextrose shake post workout.


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## POPPA BEAR

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to just eat whatever meal on your diet is next mate for pre and post...


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## chopperead

With that in mind then i cant imagine eating 6 eggs pre workout or even cooking them that early so ill go without anything and just eat them when i get back.

Thanks for your help mate.


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## Kezz

will any nuts do, ie walunts almonds etc, i bloody hate peanut butter etc


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## DRED

chopperead said:


> With that in mind then i cant imagine eating 6 eggs pre workout or even cooking them that early so ill go without anything and just eat them when i get back.
> 
> Thanks for your help mate.


i have to eat my eggs about 6.30ish....yummy


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## POPPA BEAR

chopperead said:


> With that in mind then i cant imagine eating 6 eggs pre workout or even cooking them that early so ill go without anything and just eat them when i get back.
> 
> Thanks for your help mate.


Or you could drink em :beer:


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## DRED

no mate that would make me puke :lol:


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## POPPA BEAR

I actually find it easier to drink raw eggs than eat a big plate of scrambled ! How weird am i ?

Where/what protein did you get DRED ?


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## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> I actually find it easier to drink raw eggs than eat a big plate of scrambled ! How weird am i ?
> 
> Where/what protein did you get DRED ?


i managed to get some un-flavoured whey isolate from a mate....but i think i will get the rest from myprotein.


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## Bulldozer

POPPA BEAR said:


> I actually find it easier to drink raw eggs than eat a big plate of scrambled ! How weird am i ?


Im the same bud.


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## Kezz

i put a raw egg in my mouth once and when it hit the back of my throat i projectile vomited it all over my fridge haha


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## POPPA BEAR

Bulldozer said:


> Im the same bud.


Thought it was just me

Dred have you had a last binge on christmas food today ?


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## DRED

Kezz said:


> i put a raw egg in my mouth once and when it hit the back of my throat i projectile vomited it all over my fridge haha


lol mate thats why i have to cook my eggs i would be gagging :lol:


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## Bulldozer

Kezz said:


> i put a raw egg in my mouth once and when it hit the back of my throat i projectile vomited it all over my fridge haha


Bwhahah

Man up 

I knock 6 out into a pint glass and down them every morning, dont even break the yolks up.

GGGGGRRRRRRRR :laugh:


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## POPPA BEAR

Kezz said:


> i put a raw egg in my mouth once and when it hit the back of my throat i projectile vomited it all over my fridge haha


Try it with 6 in a blender beaker !! lol :thumb:


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## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Thought it was just me
> 
> Dred have you had a last binge on christmas food today ?


i cant believe i have not put loads of weight on the last few days,i have been eating sweets,biscuits...

i think a protien shake and thats me done....i am fit to burst :thumb:


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## Kezz

i'd rather scramble em as i'm not bloody rocky!!!! last full binge day for me today and i am nice and fat and looking foreward to hard diet and training!!!


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## POPPA BEAR

DRED said:


> i cant believe i have not put loads of weight on the last few days,i have been eating sweets,biscuits...
> 
> i think a protien shake and thats me done....i am fit to burst :thumb:


Top man ! In the 1st week or 2 you should drop a load of water weight too


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## hackskii

Kezz said:


> will any nuts do, ie walunts almonds etc, i bloody hate peanut butter etc


Sure, consider macadamia nuts, they are the higest in fats, lowest in carbs.


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## DRED

looking forward to this diet :thumb:


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## jonti1leg

loads o people doin this, will be good to see progress..yes i am the sad tvvat who has counted 39 peanuts and put them into small money bags...may be sad but preperation is key... ive been on this since Fri 2nd Jan and feel ok apart from banging headaches..mind you that might be the viagra... have got EPO now so including that as well as the other supps. am having "Good Oil light" (sainsburys) for extra oil, which is rich in O369 with my turkey (150g, am only 150lbs) and my trusty 39 nuts. having this for meal 2 and 4..meal 3 being tuna and protein...5 being salmon, talapia and veg, dropped the quantity of eggs for meal 1&6 as only 150lb. Good Luck everyone. Jon.


----------



## DRED

get the scales out mate and weigh 39 nuts and after that your sorted :thumb:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Just read on md that 40g almonds = 20g fat... if that helps


----------



## J.B.

POPPA BEAR said:


> Just read on md that 40g almonds = 20g fat... if that helps


hmmm im all confused now, thought it was half a cup of almonds which ive looked up as 75g...... is this too much ?


----------



## POPPA BEAR

J.B. said:


> hmmm im all confused now, thought it was half a cup of almonds which ive looked up as 75g...... is this too much ?


Just looked on fitday 75g of almonds gives you 38g of fat


----------



## J.B.

what would you suggest dropping it to poppa ?

im having

6 eggs

whey and 2 tablespoons of p/butter

8oz chicken 75g almonds

whey and 2x tbl spoons b/butter (post workout )

8oz meat/salmon green veg e.v.o.o

6 eggs

how does that look, basically very similar to Dreds..

thanks for suggestions


----------



## LiftHeavy

do u take a multi vit a ph? i will be follwing like u have posted only 8oz of tuna with extra virgin olive oil for meal 2 i dont like to many shakes a day.


----------



## J.B.

me ?

i have multi vit

p.h

omega 3 fish oil

e.p.o

zinc

shakes are in for convinience sake at work, one will be post work out too.

gym n walkin dogs early for s.s. cardio

my diets very much the same as Dreds, see page 1.

J.B.


----------



## hackskii

It is a good idea to supplement Omega 3's while on a keto diet, along with vitamin E, and a good multi-vitamin/mineral supplement would be a great idea, along with some fiber, both soluable and nonsoluable.

Outside of that, many restrictions are over rated......


----------



## POPPA BEAR

JB Way I see it you can either carry on with 75g nuts and see if you lose, then drop down if needs be or drop them out now really up to you dude.


----------



## chopperead

Done my first workout this morning 6:30 since before Christmas and have been on this diet since 1st Jan and i felt weak and sick after my second excersize not put me off as i have read that it takes time for the body to switch over from carbs to fats i just hope it happens soon.


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> The banging headache sometimes shows that you have come out of keto (or not quite gone into it LOL) depending on how long/strict you have been dieting. Having said that , it could well be the Viagra if you are taking it.......! Keto usually brings down the blood pressure when you go into it.
> 
> I haven't felt sick or weak on this diet, in fact I feel amazing and I felt as strong as a bull in the gym today. But I have been on the diet since 27th December.. I am losing bf very well now and starting to look different in the mirror.
> 
> I would not worry enough to count out 39 peanuts. I measure mine as a small fist full (my own fist LOL), a quick splosh of top quality olive oil and a chunk of lean meat are other measures I use. When I get nearer to contest time I will start to tighten the measures up, or when the bf stops falling off me. My clothes are getting too loose for me!
> 
> I cook my eggs before I go to the gym and usually have them scrambled or in an omletter cooked in high temperature olive oil. If I am pushed for time I have them hard boiled from the night before. When I overlaid on Saturday, I had a protein shake made with water instead, then brunch when I got home.


how qiuck would you go into ketosis?


----------



## DRED

thanks gg i only asked as i have had a banging headache all afternoon..


----------



## DRED

ok guys and girls this was the first day;

6 eggs this morning seemed a lot but i cooked them and they went down ok...

i am having trouble drinking all the water but its goin down...

also i have had a banging headache since lunch time,like a thick head...

****ing for england though and its clear...

trained chest tonight it was -1 in my gym...

did a giant set for chest;

incline pec dec

incline press

flat press

cable crossovers 3 rotations 15,12,10

wicked pump :thumb:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

NIce one mate, you're on the way , up to a week for ketosis I don't think the diet would be the cause of your bad head... Not this quickly anyway


----------



## jonti1leg

how do you know when youve gone into ketosis?


----------



## Lou

Keto stix - available from all good chemists except Boots who refuse to sell them to people on Keto diets for the purpose of Ketone measurement.

Chemistry 101 - pee on the stick - the more purple the markers the more ketones in your blood stream....measuring the level of ketosis you are in.

The other method is to invest in a blood sugar monitor the ones for diabetic use - you get a kit to start - needles for the pr**k pen - and strips to put your fresh blood sample on- in a bleep it measures your blood sugar levels (ketosis will indicate very low levels) - disadvantage -the replacement strips are VERY expensive - online pharmacy's are the best bet and marginally cheaper but you are looking at paying between £35.00 - £50.00 for a box of 50 strips.

Lou


----------



## hackskii

Well, I know some that say their breath smells like bandaids.....

Generally bad breath happens in ketosis.

But keto sticks would be the most accurate.

Nice post Lou


----------



## FATBOY

headaches are inevatable when you first drop your carbs m8 stick with it they get better


----------



## DRED

FATBOY said:


> headaches are inevatable when you first drop your carbs m8 stick with it they get better


headache went after i took some tablets,but i had had it for 10 hours before i took them...


----------



## DRED

bloody hell tired this morning,i was up atleast every hour last night for a wee....

and it was still clear this morning,normally its darker in the mornings...


----------



## Guest

Bulldozer said:


> Bwhahah
> 
> Man up
> 
> I knock 6 out into a pint glass and down them every morning, dont even break the yolks up.
> 
> GGGGGRRRRRRRR :laugh:


Isnt the protein in raw eggs not as bio-availble as when cooked? Im sure i read somewhere eating them raw your only getting around 50-60% of the protein as cooked eggs? Poached or scrambled for me.

Anyway, good luck Dred. Think ill do doing this later on aswell.


----------



## POPPA BEAR

DRED said:


> bloody hell tired this morning,i was up atleast every hour last night for a wee....
> 
> and it was still clear this morning,normally its darker in the mornings...


That does improve mate...honest, did you manage the 5ltrs ?


----------



## DRED

yes mate managed the 5ltrs :thumb:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Nice i really struggle to drink enough


----------



## Kezz

same here, i manage 4l at the most !!


----------



## DRED

indeed mate that was a mission drinking all that..


----------



## POPPA BEAR

'kin 'ell Dred nice avvy !


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> 'kin 'ell Dred nice avvy !


that was about 2 or so years ago....if i get back to that with a 6 pack...happy days


----------



## Lift

Lou said:


> Keto stix - available from all good chemists except Boots who refuse to sell them to people on Keto diets for the purpose of Ketone measurement.
> 
> Bought mine from boots. at first the lady at the chemist counter hadn't a clue what I was after though!
> 
> Chemistry 101 - pee on the stick - the more purple the markers the more ketones in your blood stream....measuring the level of ketosis you are in.
> 
> The other method is to invest in a blood sugar monitor the ones for diabetic use - you get a kit to start - needles for the pr**k pen - and strips to put your fresh blood sample on- in a bleep it measures your blood sugar levels (ketosis will indicate very low levels) - disadvantage -the replacement strips are VERY expensive - online pharmacy's are the best bet and marginally cheaper but you are looking at paying between £35.00 - £50.00 for a box of 50 strips.
> 
> Lou


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Last time i bought ketostix at boots the chemist asked if i was on atkins... it was easier to say kinda yeah, than to explain.


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> bloody hell tired this morning,i was up atleast every hour last night for a wee....
> 
> and it was still clear this morning,normally its darker in the mornings...


That is because carbohydrates hold 2.6 grams of water, fats hold .5 gram of water.

This diet basicly induces a form of diauretic.

So, first few days even a week, you will lose alot of water.

Dont be concerned, it is normal, nothing to worry about, just keep drinking water, this will help with lipid mobilization.


----------



## DRED

:beer: scott


----------



## DRED

no headaches today :thumb:

training days are

monday....chest/biceps

tuesday...abs

wednesday..back/traps

thursday...abs

friday........delts/tri,s

saturday....legs


----------



## Lou

Milton Keynes the anomaly in the crown of England - All Boots in this area refused to sell me Keto stix on account that I was on a 'keto diet' so I just pop along to my local Jardines chemist no problemo.....


----------



## Lou

DRED said:


> thanks gg i only asked as i have had a banging headache all afternoon..


Have you given up all coffee/caffeine too? That will cause the mother of all headaches for a good day or two.....


----------



## Kezz

why on earth would they refuse to sell them to you??


----------



## DRED

Lou said:


> Have you given up all coffee/caffeine too? That will cause the mother of all headaches for a good day or two.....


hi lou

i have given up tea and coffee its just good old water for me :beer:


----------



## philip41

DRED said:


> hi lou
> 
> i have given up tea and coffee its just good old water for me :beer:


Why have you given them up.


----------



## DRED

philip41 said:


> Why have you given them up.


no milk or sugar :thumb:


----------



## chopperead

Today i used a Ketostix for the first time and it looked like i wasnt in ketosis at all !

Last night i ate some mince meat with a quarter of an onion and half a tin of tomatoes could this have kick me out if i was in ?

Yesterdays food was:

Meal 1:

4 whole Scrambled eggs

Meal 2:

1 scoop whey protein

1 scoop calcium casinate

1 tablespoon PB

water

Meal 3:

8oz = 1 and half tins of tuna

iceburg lettuce

large splosh flax seed oil

small splosh balsamic vinegar

Meal 4:

Shake as above

Meal 5:

8 oz chicken

1 tablespoon PB

Meal 6

8oz Mince beek

1/2 tin chopped tomatoes

1/4 onion

spices

Today's food

Meal 1

6 Boiled eggs

Meal 2

1 & 1/2 tins of tuna

salad

flax oil and balsamic vinegar

Meal 3

Shake as above

Meal 4

8 oz Chicken

1 Advocado ( cant eat nuts as wearing brace )

Meal 5

8 oz Salmon

1 Advocado

Missed a shake today due to work and i am working up to eating 6 eggs in the morning.

Any comments on my diet welcome its not exactly the same as what others are doing but i had to adjust it to me will probably need adjusting again !


----------



## J.B.

im struggling with the water a bit TBH, 3 ltrs of water today up to yet but drinking green tea like its going out fashion. Im hoping that if i drink enough of it i will get used to it and it will start to taste ok.... also water in 2 shakes so, about 4 and half ltrs overall....on reflection not to bad i guess.


----------



## philip41

DRED said:


> no milk or sugar :thumb:


Gotcha,

I have me coffee black and tea green.


----------



## philip41

J.B. said:


> im struggling with the water a bit TBH, 3 ltrs of water today up to yet but drinking green tea like its going out fashion. Im hoping that if i drink enough of it i will get used to it and it will start to taste ok.... also water in 2 shakes so, about 4 and half ltrs overall....on reflection not to bad i guess.


Including teas, coffee and PWO shakes i am getting in approx 6-7 litres a day.


----------



## walks

J.B. said:


> im struggling with the water a bit TBH, 3 ltrs of water today up to yet but drinking green tea like its going out fashion. Im hoping that if i drink enough of it i will get used to it and it will start to taste ok.... also water in 2 shakes so, about 4 and half ltrs overall....on reflection not to bad i guess.


Whats the reccomendation for water?


----------



## DRED

is there an alternative to the eggs? there making me gag a bit this morning...

or some way to make them taste better,i have tried chilli flakes :bounce:


----------



## philip41

DRED said:


> is there an alternative to the eggs? there making me gag a bit this morning...
> 
> or some way to make them taste better,i have tried chilli flakes :bounce:


I tend to stick loads of black pepper in them and a pinch of salt.


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Whats the reccomendation for water?


i am sure i read 5ltrs but to be honest i cant find it now....


----------



## POPPA BEAR

DRED said:


> is there an alternative to the eggs? there making me gag a bit this morning...
> 
> or some way to make them taste better,i have tried chilli flakes :bounce:


Thats why i find it easier to drink em !! Couple of big gulps and they've gone...

Are you scrambling them or having an omelette ?


----------



## hilly

i make an omellete with 3 mushrooms sliced in and 1 piece of bacon. I add a bit of spicy season all to thew mix then dash a little lea in perrins on top. goes ok.


----------



## DRED

just had to pop home,same yesterday.....its got to be meal one or meal two is giving me the propers ****s!

meal 1 is the omega 3 eggs,fish oil caps,epo,trib,multi vit

meal 2 protien shake,peanuts,psyllium husks

its either to much omega 3 in meal 1 or to much protien in meal 2?


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Thats why i find it easier to drink em !! Couple of big gulps and they've gone...
> 
> Are you scrambling them or having an omelette ?


scrambling at the moment but might give the omelette a go :thumb:


----------



## invisiblekid

1 scoop of whey, 3 eggs, little water - down the hatch :thumbup1:


----------



## FATBOY

switch your meals round m8 have eggs later or for your supper go with whey first thing its probably just a morning thing


----------



## julesm

doesnt consuming too much water have a dampening effect on ketosis (pardon the pun)


----------



## hackskii

Greekgoddess said:


> If I have low amounts of carbs in my body (have been on the diet for 12 days now) and my bodyweight and bodyfat levels are falling quickly, why has my body hydration level gone up ( and it is still rising) ?? I would have thought the hydration level would have gone down, firstly because I am not having carbs which hold water, and secondly because the diet is supposed to get rid of excess water.
> 
> Anyone??Hackskii??


How did you determine that you are more hydrated?

Generally speaking when you are thirsty, you are already dehydrated to a point.

Water retention is basicly from not having enough water, once you drink enough water and more the body will let it go.

Not to mention carbs hold alot of water hence the word carbo*HYDRATE*....lol


----------



## DRED

trained back & traps today;

seated row close grip 3 sets(did not count reps)

underhand grip pulldowns 3 sets(did not count reps)

db rows 3 sets (did not count reps)

straight arm pull downs with tricep rope 3 sets(did not count reps)

db shrugs 4 sets

i am going to swap the eggs to omega 3 at night and normal eggs in the morning....so if the omega 3 eggs are upsetting me at least i will be indoors...


----------



## Kezz

why not just have the eggs and sack the fish oils 1st thing in the morning??


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> why not just have the eggs and sack the fish oils 1st thing in the morning??


i might just do that and move them with another meal......

i will see if the same thing happens tomorrow...

its like when you have to much protien it just goes through you....

so my body might adjust to it....we shall see..


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Dred how much psyllium husk are you putting in your shake ?


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Dred how much psyllium husk are you putting in your shake ?


with each shake 1000mg :thumb:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

DRED said:


> with each shake 1000mg :thumb:


 Thought it might have been that, guess not though


----------



## DRED

see what happens tomorrow its either meal 1 or 2...


----------



## Code13

How are you finding this diet in general Dred? I was toying with the idea of starting this diet as before xmas a got a grade 2 tear of the hamstring and due to no cardio have put on some unwanted fat!!

Have others seen good fat loss results with the diet?


----------



## DRED

Code13 said:


> How are you finding this diet in general Dred? I was toying with the idea of starting this diet as before xmas a got a grade 2 tear of the hamstring and due to no cardio have put on some unwanted fat!!
> 
> Have others seen good fat loss results with the diet?


its only the third day mate i feel fine with the lack of carbs.

headache the first day but thats gone now...

bit of a dodgy belly today but will give it a couple more days to see if i need to change anything...


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> its only the third day mate i feel fine with the lack of carbs.
> 
> headache the first day but thats gone now...
> 
> bit of a dodgy belly today but will give it a couple more days to see if i need to change anything...


All this will change within the next day or two, then watch your energy levels soar.


----------



## DRED

hackskii said:


> All this will change within the next day or two, then watch your energy levels soar.


cheers scott you are the voice of reson :thumb:


----------



## DRED

what will you be having gg?


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> I haven't decided yet, but might just go for an Indian meal. Onion bahjees, Pilau rice and a couple of poppadoms with a little curried chicken or prawns should just about cover the 200 gms!


nice i can taste it now....my family were having pizza tonight....it smelt so good but i was strong and had my meat and asparagus :thumbup1:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

DRED said:


> nice i can taste it now....my family were having pizza tonight....it smelt so good but i was strong and had my meat and asparagus :thumbup1:


Know that feeling mate


----------



## Kezz

just wait for you weekend mega carb up!!! you wont be able to face em again for a week if you eat enough, lol


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> just wait for you weekend mega carb up!!! you wont be able to face em again for a week if you eat enough, lol


i dont think i will go stupid on my cheat day,but a pizza just for me,a nice pudding and a couple of cups of tea....

that is a L A R G E P I Z Z A......


----------



## Kezz

I am having a whole day on the cheat day, gonna try for 1500g of carbs, i will then take pics of my awesomely pumped body the next day lol, if it doesent work then i will go for the 1 miserable meal hahaha, i may even do 4 weeks of each


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> I am having a whole day on the cheat day, gonna try for 1500g of carbs, i will then take pics of my awesomely pumped body the next day lol, if it doesent work then i will go for the 1 miserable meal hahaha, i may even do 4 weeks of each


yes mate take before and after pics when you do that will be good to see how it effects you....

i know its a refeed but will it take longer to get back into ketosis with all those carbs or do you think the body will just absorb them?

maybe one for scott there...


----------



## Kezz

I will , i know people who do it and it works well, if you are gonna feed your body some carbs i want to give it a bit more than a measely 400g lol, mind you i may end up eating my words but am prepared to be the guinea pig LOL


----------



## jassdhali

Greekgoddess said:


> If I have low amounts of carbs in my body (have been on the diet for 12 days now) and my bodyweight and bodyfat levels are falling quickly, why has my body hydration level gone up ( and it is still rising) ?? I would have thought the hydration level would have gone down, firstly because I am not having carbs which hold water, and secondly because the diet is supposed to get rid of excess water.
> 
> Anyone??Hackskii??


GG just out of curiosity how much weight have u lost - that is after the initial water loss, also how much reduction in bodyfat.


----------



## jassdhali

Im taking about in about 2 grammes of Physillium Husk twice a day with my shakes - is that acceptable or should I up it?

I am currently on my third day - just about managing 1 trip for a number 2  a day


----------



## POPPA BEAR

jassdhali said:


> Im taking about in about 2 grammes of Physillium Husk twice a day with my shakes - is that acceptable or should I up it?
> 
> I am currently on my third day - just about managing 1 trip for a number 2  a day


A tablespoon in a shake a day is doing the job for me.... I've never sh!t

like this before lol


----------



## clarkey

DRED said:


> yes mate take before and after pics when you do that will be good to see how it effects you....
> 
> i know its a refeed but will it take longer to get back into ketosis with all those carbs or do you think the body will just absorb them?
> 
> maybe one for scott there...


Trust me mate you will need the carbs so dont worry about your cheat meal. Its there for a purpose so make sure it is something you fancy. When I was dieting for my shows this year i was having between 800 and 1000 grams of carbs on my cheat day which was Saturday and come Sunday afternoon I was starving again as the carbs had done there job and fired up my motabilism. It worked for me as I lost weighed on a weekly basis.


----------



## jassdhali

Thanks for the reply GG thats given me some more inspiration. I am keeping a weight log and as I said am into my third day. Im 41 lost around 20KG's a couple of years ago, but need an extra boost to get my ass in gear - i will stay on this regime till the middle of March, then go from there.


----------



## Guest

Re: the whole cheat meal thing.

Are they necessary? And if so why?

Anybody know? i mean ive heard both sides of the argument previously. Replenish Glycogen/Mental break (which to me seems stupid as your going to flood your body with carbs only to try and get into a ketogenic state again which can be mentally tough)


----------



## Kezz

my metabolism shot through the roof on cheat days, i was sweating when eating like a raging inferno !! lol


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> my metabolism shot through the roof on cheat days, i was sweating when eating like a raging inferno !! lol


so are you gonna have one massive blow out meal or just load up throughout the day?


----------



## Guest

Greekgoddess said:


> Yes, its to replenish glycogen. But I believe it is also to shock the body so it does not get used to the very low carbs and adjust the metabolism, but I could be wrong!
> 
> I do understand your point, I was tempted to drop the cheat meal myself. But because the diet is working so well for me I am going to follow it to the letter for the time being.


Cheers. Ive just been having a think about it though, and i thought the whole idea was to get the body used to using fat as fuel rather than carbs?

The human bodies not easy to figure out is it? lol


----------



## Kezz

DRED said:


> so are you gonna have one massive blow out meal or just load up throughout the day?


 full day


----------



## Tall

mikex101 said:


> Cheers. Ive just been having a think about it though, and i thought the whole idea was to get the body used to using fat as fuel rather than carbs?
> 
> The human bodies not easy to figure out is it? lol


The refeeds are used to reset leptin levels. Fat loss on a keto diet is affected by the law of diminishing returns, as leptin down regulates as the keto diet goes on.


----------



## DB

Kezz said:


> full day


when doing the ketosis diet?

doesnt make sense to me to be honest..

why say you're gonna follow someones diet plan then change a huge part of it?


----------



## Tall

DB said:


> when doing the ketosis diet?
> 
> doesnt make sense to me to be honest..
> 
> why say you're gonna follow someones diet plan then change a huge part of it?


A Keto diet with a weekly refeed is a CKD.

A keto diet with carbs before training and potentially a weekly refeed is a TKD.

Nothing wrong with refeeding on a keto diet, in fact IMHO you've be mad not to. See the post on here about leptin, and my post on the other DP KETO thread about looking flat.


----------



## Guest

Tall said:


> The refeeds are used to reset leptin levels. Fat loss on a keto diet is affected by the law of diminishing returns, as leptin down regulates as the keto diet goes on.


Arrgh, nice one. cheers.

Another quicky without wanting to totally hijack Dread thread. Do you use total or LBM when calculating cals? bearing in mind im on the high side of 20% BF Ive heard conflicting veiws.

How you finding it Dred? Ive been cutting carbs out slowly over the last few days, the headakes Yesterday/Tuesday were a bitch!


----------



## DB

Tall said:


> A Keto diet with a weekly refeed is a CKD.
> 
> A keto diet with carbs before training and potentially a weekly refeed is a TKD.
> 
> Nothing wrong with refeeding on a keto diet, in fact IMHO you've be mad not to. See the post on here about leptin, and my post on the other DP KETO thread about looking flat.


Na dude I totally agree with a refeed...

perhaps i was unclear..

Kez was talking about a refeed day.. I was implying that is not the best way imo.. a meal or a set hour to eat a high carb meal is far better than a day consuming a shed load of carbs.. i.e spiking insulin once etc


----------



## Tall

DB said:


> Na dude I totally agree with a refeed...
> 
> perhaps i was unclear..
> 
> Kez was talking about a refeed day.. I was implying that is not the best way imo.. a meal or a set hour to eat a high carb meal is far better than a day consuming a shed load of carbs.. i.e spiking insulin once etc


Yeah on a keto diet a refeed is a full day, or between 24 and 48 hours. A bit like a high carb day when carb cycling.

Someone on here posted a link to DC's board - a guy over there called skip has guys on crazy crazy refeeds, 4000g of Carbs were claimed in one instance.

If I went over 700g of Carbs for 2 days running I spilled over really badly, but I think that was because I had used baked spuds.

I did Friday night to Sat night consuming huge amounts of Oats and was fine.

A cheat meal is normally fine in the first few weeks of keto, but after longer periods I found I did need a refeed to keep up the weight loss (leptin reset), but I still stayed flat during the week.


----------



## DB

ahh sh1t.. just wrote a long reply but my gash computer crashed...

i think it varies with this cheat meal vrs day debate.. Depends how lean the person wants to get i think.. show lean or beach lean.. massive difference and I can imagine the cheat meals being stopped a month out to get the last bits off..

only one way to find out and thats to try it


----------



## Kezz

DB said:


> when doing the ketosis diet?
> 
> doesnt make sense to me to be honest..
> 
> why say you're gonna follow someones diet plan then change a huge part of it?


 its a different version of it mate, i will find the link and post it up


----------



## hilly

i intend to have an extended cheat meal. for instance i will stick to the diet till 9pm on sat then eat wahetever i want till i go to be at 11/12. see how this works.

like you said db if going for a show i imagine this would be almost stoped the last few weeks.


----------



## Kezz

here we go, read this thread

http://www.intensemuscle.com/33298-what-24lb-loss-36-hours-looks-like.html?highlight=skip+day

My mates have tried it and it works, i will try it for a while and if it does thothing i will change to the other one


----------



## Kezz

i dont intend to eat that amount, lol


----------



## jonti1leg

a guy at my work has been on diet for 5 days...he says ketostix still reads negative and hasnt felt any diff...i said he prob needs to up his fats...is that right or can the amount of time it takes to go into ketosis vary?


----------



## hackskii

Too much protein, too little fats, or too many carbs can kick you out of ketosis.

I do remember though not really regestering and still I was losing alot of weight.


----------



## hilly

im in ketosis slight after 4 days. im haing 320 gram protein and 104g fats


----------



## Tall

hilly2008 said:


> im in ketosis slight after 4 days. im haing 320 gram protein and 104g fats


Is that from ketostix alone?

Ok cool. Do you fancy doing an experiment?

Try a ketostick upon waking and then about 30mins after each meal or so? Try it for a few days and post up the results of the readings?

I am genuinely interested in how the Pro would effect the ketosis.


----------



## Guest

At the end of the day who cares if your not in ketosis at all times on the Dave P diet, the lack of overall calories will rip you up end of story.


----------



## hilly

Tall said:


> Is that from ketostix alone?
> 
> Ok cool. Do you fancy doing an experiment?
> 
> Try a ketostick upon waking and then about 30mins after each meal or so? Try it for a few days and post up the results of the readings?
> 
> I am genuinely interested in how the Pro would effect the ketosis.


it is from ketostix mate yeh. i was only between the first 2 colours not right in the dark end.

ill take it after waking and after each meal i can but wont be able to after the one at college. ill post the results in the other thread i started mate.


----------



## hermie07

hi been readin gthis topic and its very interesting, im gonna start it next week so wan tto get everything sorted, quick question - what quantities are you taking per day of epo,mv,o3.6.9.and ph this is ref to dreds diet that he posted on page 1 thanks


----------



## LiftHeavy

dont forget dreds is for a 250lb man. you can adjust if for your weight. u dont need omega 3,6,9 jus omega three a multi vit and ph


----------



## hackskii

First pee pee maybe the most accurate.

Hydration during the day may effect ketone to hydration ratio?

Tall?

Would the ketone checking be more accurate during the day or after a resting fast?

I know pH is higher in the morning, from what I have seen.

For the record mid streem of your pee is most accurate.


----------



## hilly

i have been peein in a cup half way thru and measuring that way as it says on the box to dip for 10-15 secs


----------



## DRED

i am still getting a dodgy belly about lunch time so am now mixing the eggs to 3 of each for meal 1 and meal 6 to see if it goes.

but i must say i do feel good,i was concerned that with the lack of carbs i would have the shakes like when you skip a meal but ok so far.


----------



## hermie07

dred just a quick quaestion if i cant have peanuts what other nuts could replace them and how many would equait to the 39 peanuts in your diet? cashews any good


----------



## Kezz

no they ate high in carbs, i am using almonds, pine nuts macadamia nuts and brazil nuts


----------



## hilly

i found brazilsa to have the least carbs and holland and barrat have got these on buy a 500g bag get 1 half price not bad really.

if i am craving something sweet i will have 1 or 2 brazil nuts on a night


----------



## hermie07

ok im off to holland and barret now to get my brazil nuts and my psyllum husk, am i right in thinking that 1000mg a day split into 2 doses of 500mg are enough of the husk. also gonna be taking 1000mg of cod liver oil with omega 3 to help my joints.


----------



## Kezz

hilly2008 said:


> i found brazilsa to have the least carbs and holland and barrat have got these on buy a 500g bag get 1 half price not bad really.
> 
> if i am craving something sweet i will have 1 or 2 brazil nuts on a night


 is sugar free jelly ok??


----------



## DRED

gyppo12345 said:


> dred just a quick quaestion if i cant have peanuts what other nuts could replace them and how many would equait to the 39 peanuts in your diet? cashews any good


i worked it out here mate;

http://ast-ss.com/tools.php


----------



## DRED

gyppo12345 said:


> ok im off to holland and barret now to get my brazil nuts and my psyllum husk, am i right in thinking that 1000mg a day split into 2 doses of 500mg are enough of the husk. also gonna be taking 1000mg of cod liver oil with omega 3 to help my joints.


in holland and barret psyllium husks are 500mg caps so i am having 1000mg twice a day(2x2 caps)


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> is sugar free jelly ok??


i dont think there is anything in sugar free jelly


----------



## Kezz

where is says asparagus 6 each, what does that mean??


----------



## DRED

swapped the eggs round today and had psyllium husks with the first meal and the epo and fish oils with the second...

no dodgy tummy today...


----------



## Kezz

ah good, you just have to experiment with it to find what suits you


----------



## DRED

trained delts and tri,s tonight...

rear delts crusifix between the crossover machine 2 sets warm up 2 working sets not counting reps

rear delts laying over a bench 2 sets

side delts db 4 sets not counting reps

machine press 4 sets not counting reps

triceps...

pushdowns..v-bar 2 sets

reverse grip press downs 2 sets

single arm rope press downs 2sets


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> where is says asparagus 6 each, what does that mean??


6 spears of aspargus i think


----------



## Kezz

ah good, sod all carbs in them, i am suprised brussel sprouts have loads tho, gutted as there are my fav veg


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> ah good, sod all carbs in them, i am suprised brussel sprouts have loads tho, gutted as there are my fav veg


your joking there little fart bombs :laugh:


----------



## Kezz

no i love em!!! weird i know as everyone hates em, i actually savour the flavour!! haha


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> Just a point of interest. I do the cooking in my house, so my husband has been following the diet with a few extra carbs as treats (He can't give them up!). His blood pressure has dropped from 140/90 three weeks ago to 110/65 this morning. He may have to have the tablets stopped if this goes on.......
> 
> Going for my indian cheat meal tonight and having a bar of marzipan that has my name on it! Then back onto the diet tomorrow morning. Its working!


thats a great drop in blood pressure


----------



## philip41

Dred so how are you feeling on this diet so far?


----------



## DRED

philip41 said:


> Dred so how are you feeling on this diet so far?


to be honest i have felt great all week...no loss of strength...no light headedness.

i had an upset tummy for a few days and thats ok now....

but for some unknown reason i cant get myself goin today,a bit fed up sort of thing.

i am usually full of beans and having a good laugh......


----------



## DRED

legs and calves today..

superset leg extentions/laying leg curl

1x warm up

4 sets not counting reps....

recumbant legs press

4 sets not counting reps

2 narrow/2 wide

standing calve raises

4 sets not counting reps

2 narrow/2 feet turned out

great pump


----------



## Kezz

do you normally do narrow and wide on leg presses


----------



## hackskii

Greekgoddess said:


> When people feel down or a bit fed up and it is out of character the Greeks always blame the weather!


Hey, that sounds like a good excuse.

But our weather is generally nice.

Guess I cant use that one...lol

Now, my GF can....heeee heee:lol:


----------



## jonti1leg

Kezz said:


> do you normally do narrow and wide on leg presses


i do this combo....do 3 sets of 12, 10, 8 wide, then 3 sets 12, 10, 8 narrow, increasing weight each set then returning to start weight for 2nd 3 sets.

Hit a PB on Tuesday which i was VERY VERY pleased with 118K (may not sound a great lot but bear in mind, it is just with one leg.


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> do you normally do narrow and wide on leg presses


i only do that kezz as i dont have a hack squat at home......

i have i pretty big gym at the bottom of the garden with most things...


----------



## Kezz

nice one mate  i do something similar too and found it works well


----------



## Kezz

you are just getting old..... he he xx


----------



## jassdhali

My legs have been sore and I'm on the 5th day. Weird as I havent done any form of excercise at all, as I am working nights till Monday am.


----------



## walks

Greekgoddess said:


> Has anyone else found the doms get worse on this diet?
> 
> Yes, I am taking all the supplements. Tonight I had to take a muscle relaxant (pinched it off my husband) as I stood on a chair to reach something in my wardrobe and couldn't get back down with my sore legs, then had to lower myself slowly onto the settee.. Isn't life fun?


In daves thread he says it can be caused by the lack of sodium. He reccomends you add a few shakes of salt to each meal


----------



## Guest

Greekgoddess said:


> Just a point of interest. I do the cooking in my house, so my husband has been following the diet with a few extra carbs as treats (He can't give them up!). His blood pressure has dropped from 140/90 three weeks ago to 110/65 this morning. He may have to have the tablets stopped if this goes on.......
> 
> Going for my indian cheat meal tonight and having a bar of marzipan that has my name on it! Then back onto the diet tomorrow morning. Its working!


 That is a shockingly large decrease in blood pressure!!!!


----------



## jonti1leg

two quick questions:-

when someone writes "bump" in a messgae, what does it mean? and

What are doms ?


----------



## philip41

jonti1leg said:


> two quick questions:-
> 
> when someone writes "bump" in a messgae, what does it mean?


Just a way of getting the thread back up to the top, could use any word really though.



> What are doms ?


Delayed onset muscle soreness. The aches and pains you sometimes get after training.


----------



## BOK

Hi,

Not trying to hijack this thread, but need some advice from GreekGoddess. The misses and I have been on this diet for a week now; she's the same age as you. I lost 6lbs and she nothing, we seem to be eating the same foods but I lost and she never. Gutted!!! To say the least. I was wondering if you had the same issue when you started it?

Thanks,

Bok


----------



## BOK

Hi,

Not trying to hijack this thread, but need some advice from GreekGoddess. The misses and I have been on this diet for a week now; she's the same age as you. I lost 6lbs and she nothing, we seem to be eating the same foods but I lost and she never. Gutted!!! to say the least. I was wondering if you had the same issue when you started it?

Thanks,

Bok


----------



## BOK

Thanks Greekgoddess, I will adjust and try again.

Bok


----------



## hackskii

BOK said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not trying to hijack this thread, but need some advice from GreekGoddess. The misses and I have been on this diet for a week now; she's the same age as you. I lost 6lbs and she nothing, we seem to be eating the same foods but I lost and she never. Gutted!!! to say the least. I was wondering if you had the same issue when you started it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bok


Guys tend to do better on this diet than the girls.


----------



## POPPA BEAR

DRED one week in how's it going fella ?


----------



## beefcakebaggie

I'll be one week into this diet as of tomorrow, I've lost the 10lb put on over Christmas plus an extra pound (Most of it water retention I would imagine). I have a couple of comments questions open for debate:

I'm reading that most people on here are eating 5-6 eggs for breakfast, but based on my calorie spreadsheet I'm having to have 5 whole eggs & 5 whites to get enough protein spread over 6 meals (1,5g per lb bodyweight for protein & 0,5g per lb fat, I weigh 220lbs).

Also I'm being completely rigid & reading about some of you guys throwing in some nuts to curb hunger pangs etc, is that allowable, I mean how strict are we saying you need to be.

Final question, as the recommended approach is keep diet the same but increase work to lose, If I'm losing on 3 weight training sessions a week only, should I not do the cardio yet? (I am doing DIY all day Sunday normally so would this count as a prolonged low intensity session)?

Also I'm finding it really hard to stick to (Particularly hard when my wife & daughter are eating chocolates & sweets etc), the missus has noticed I have more bad moods!

Thanks in advance


----------



## hilly

beefcake

i was having 4 whole eggs and 4 egg whites i have now removed 2 of those yokes and added a peice of bacon.

their is loadsa choc lieing around my house as well so if i am really craving something or i am really hungry i will have 2 or 3 brazil nuts. not a hand full or as many as i want just 2 or 3. this usually happens once a day on an evening.

i lost 6-7 pound first week and will not add cardio in until this slows down.


----------



## Kezz

i have started mine today, i have a strong metalic taste in my mouth, is this anything to do with the diet??


----------



## hackskii

Vince said:


> I reckon is all down to goals.
> 
> So if someone is doing this diet just to lose a bit of fat and get in better shape being anal is not necessary...on the other hand if the final goal is stepping on stage then i would follow it to perfection, i.e no extra calories, only the right foods and in the reccomended amount also if competing is the goal i'd start the cardio with the diet..."i'll start when weight loss stops" is not good for me...cardio is not just for fat loss but also for conditioning, so even if is only 30mins 5 times a week i'd add from the get go.
> 
> As it's being pointed out in the other thread changing things around might produce the same result but at that point it won't be the Palumbo's diet anymore.


Nice post, although I would suggest a slight conciquence to the above.

When dieting specifically not doing gear and dieting, if the diet is too aggressive then more lean tissue can be lost.

If you are losing tons of weight a week, I personally would not do any cardio.

If at this point you felt you had to do cardio, then you would have to up the cals some to avoid catabolism.

Lean tissue is terribly hard to gain, and some say a half a pound a week is achievabel, I dont think so unless there is some assistance here or a guy is very new to the weight lifting game.

If lean tissue is a priority to keep, then less aggressive dieting would be in order.

If you are very high percentage of body fat, then you can do more aggressive dieting and lost more fat and less muscle.

But once you dip down in the lower end of bodyfat percentage, aggressive dieting will allow you to lose fat, but also muscle. I dont see this as an option.

The body wants to hold onto fat, this is part of the survival mechanism, over time the body will try and fight you over this.


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> DRED one week in how's it going fella ?


hi mate its goin well,lost 5ib but i am gonna go by the mirror....

still ****ing for england mate,but i am lookin forward to the cheat meal at the weekend...

also dont usually suffer with doms but have had it the last couple of workouts...


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> i have started mine today, i have a strong metalic taste in my mouth, is this anything to do with the diet??


take the chicken out of the foil... :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

Greekgoddess said:


> I gained 1.4 kg the day after the cheat meal which I assume is water retention due to the carbs,as my bodyfat level stayed exactly the same. The weight is slowly going back down again now, as is the bf. Result?


Yes, this is probably the case, and the extra glycogen stored in the muscle.


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> Just read that you still have a problem Dred. Could it be that you have a problem with the husks? I have not taken them as I have no problems going to the toilet and I thought they might give me problems with my wheat allergy and IBS. That is a lot of fibre to take daily.
> 
> It could be something in your protein shake that is upsetting you.


everything is fine now i swapped the eggs round so i am having 3 omega 3 eggs and 3 normal ones,and moved the epo and fish oils to the second meal.

so far so good :beer:


----------



## Kezz

Greekgoddess said:


> Some people do get that taste in their mouth on this diet. I think its supposed to be a good sign that you are moving towards Keto!


 blimey that didnt take long!!! it is bizzare though!! feels like i had a spoon in my mouth for days!!


----------



## POPPA BEAR

GG aren't women supposed to refeed every 2 weeks instead of weekly ?


----------



## Guest

Kezz said:


> blimey that didnt take long!!! it is bizzare though!! feels like i had a spoon in my mouth for days!!


sounds like gingivitis to me.


----------



## hermie07

im starting this diet tomorrow and i cant wait how sad am i? is it wort adding 1ml of sust eevery week just to keep my strength up or will strengh be ok on this diet as i have read that a few people lift more when on this diet.


----------



## hermie07

ok im gonna leave the sust for now then and see how i get on and re-evaluate it in a month or so. wish me luck gonna weigh myself once a week but not really bothered about how heavy i am just gonna go by the mirror.


----------



## Deano!

ok where can i get details on this keto diet? really sounds like a great diet


----------



## DRED

chest & biceps

superset incline pec dec/incline press machine 3 sets not counting reps

superset cable crossover/flat press machine 3 set not counting reps

2 sets db curls

2 sets db hammer curls

2 sets db concentration curls

great pump


----------



## Kezz

I am starving now and had all my meals :-(


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> I am starving now and had all my meals :-(


just having mine now :whistling:


----------



## beefcakebaggie

Thanks all for your feedback, I will start some cardio to get the conditioning up straight away. Another quick question that in fairness has probably been asked before: For the first week I have been using regular eggs, is that a real problem or do I "have to" use Omega three (The price is quite prohibitive going from 10p per egg for regular ones up to 3X the price)?

Thanks again


----------



## Grim_Reaper

DRED said:


> evening primrose oil....i am taking it as thats what it says to take.
> 
> to be honest mate i dont know what its for lol :thumbup1:


Evening primrose oil contains substantial amounts of essential fatty acids (EFAs) which are needed by the body to regulate a number of activities including insulin utilisation, heart function, moods and immunity. The body does not produce EFAs and therefore we must obtain healthy amounts of these through our diet and supplementation.

One of the key EFAs in evening primrose oil is polysaturated omega-6 fatty acid. Gamma Linoleic Acid (GLA) is a good omega 6 fatty acid, which is required by the body in order to produce hormone-like substances known as prostaglandins, which play a vital role in the regulation of many bodily functions including the immune health, cholesterol, blood pressure and the menstrual cycle. Evening primrose oil is one of the richest sources of GLA and is also renowned for helping to treat various skin conditions including acne, eczema & psoriasis.

Simply Supplements cold pressed evening primrose oil is of the highest quality containing high amounts of GLA in each capsule for optimum benefits. Our evening primrose oil also incorporates natural vitamin E which is known for its beneficial effects on the immune system and heart health.

Just googled it and found this


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Greekgoddess said:


> Thanks Vince, thats one problem solved thanks to your advice. I can get salmon, mackerel and fresh sardines here dirt cheap at the market. I have ordered some fish oil caps on the internet. It was cheaper for five boxes plus postage from America than it was for one box here.
> 
> The second problem is that I seem to have come to a standstill with the bfat loss. I have stayed the same since I had the carb cheat meal on Saturday. I am increasing my water intake to see if that works, but the diet is exactly as stated in the DP diet loss list and I am weighing everything I eat.I am also back to doing the 30 mins steady rate cardio.
> 
> The third problem is this: When I started the diet I had three nights of joint pains that kept waking me up. I had no pains once I had been on the diet for around four days or so. After the cheat meal, I have had three more nights of joint pains again, so much so that I had to take an anti inflammatory last night to get any sleep. I really hope this isnt going to happen every time I have a cheat meal!


GG do you think you're getting the pains every time you go into ketosis ?


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Well i've experienced achey joints on keto but it didn't last, i seem to be cold all of the time though !

I wonder if upping your fish oils would help at all ?


----------



## walks

in daves thread he say when fat loss stalls up the cardio. When you are doing the max amount of cardio and not losing fat, drop the cheat meal.

After that its protien veg days.

The diet is the last thing you change after you have done all the above


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Well i've experienced achey joints on keto but it didn't last, i seem to be cold all of the time though !
> 
> I wonder if upping your fish oils would help at all ?


i thought i was falling to bits,back ache,wrists,shoulders and one hip.....


----------



## hackskii

Evening primrose oil is kind of expensive, there is a good amount of GLA in borage oil, and it is way cheaper.

GLA was studdied big time by a Dr. named Barry Sears, he came up with the Zone diet.

I have used EPO before and I like how it makes me calmer.

I remember talking to a nutrition lady and I asked her if there was anything that she would take if only one thing, she said evening primrose oil.

that was probably 20 years ago and now it probably would be fish oils.

But, some EPO, fish oils, and vitamin E would all be a good idea..

Nice thing about fish oils is it is very good as an anti-inflammatory food, actually the highest of any foods.


----------



## POPPA BEAR

hackskii said:


> Nice thing about fish oils is it is very good as an anti-inflammatory food, actually the highest of any foods.


Why i thought upping them may help with the aches...


----------



## The Bam

Hi guys

deffinatly gonna try the keto diet sounds great

just wondering how long its advised to run in for ? just till the dessired body fat is dropped ? or should it be run for a few week then break then back on ?

thanks guys


----------



## Guest

Im planning on running it for a minimum of 12 weeks. will power and sanity permitting.


----------



## Kezz

I am doing 8 weeks first of all, and another 8 2 months later


----------



## Guest

Quick question. Anyone got any good sugestions as to what i can replace the peanuts with to get the fats in me? was thinking cheese as a break and to keep some carbs down. Id rather spend the carbs im allowed on green veg. and unsalted peanuts do my head in after a while.


----------



## Guest

Cheers Vince.

You got any details on the pro/veg days? never seen an example diet for these days or macro ratio's.


----------



## Kezz

i think the proten veg days are used towards the end when losses are slower


----------



## Guest

Cheers Kezz. Ill have a look into it. That DP thread is only 172pages long so havnt read it all yet. lol


----------



## Guest

Ta, reps


----------



## hackskii

Magnesium is part of your electrolytes, that makes sense.

Imballance or lack of would give you stiff joints.

On the cheese deal, generally depending on the cheese, the carbs are very low.

I remember some of the best loss in weight came after I ate just bacon for my last meal.

Generally speaking, in the begenning regardless of fats, lipid profiles improve on a keto diet, so suggesting cheese is no a good fat, and eating 12 yolks a day seems like stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

Thanks goddess on the magnesium, that just makes alot of sense, another thing magnesium does is draw fluids into your intestines, no doubt 1,000mg a day woud for sure make you have some loose stools, just 400mg will help as a laxitive when I am constipated on a keto diet.

Magnesium hydroxide (milk of magnesia) is used to treat constipation.

Magnesium Sulphate (epsom salts) is also used to treat constipation.

So, magnesium is one of the best choices for constipation.

Beings that a keto diet tends to constipate some, it is a great idea to add.

Cheers Goddess


----------



## Houston

im gonna try this diet next week but need to now can i still use creatine and glutamine?


----------



## DRED

back & traps

close grip pull downs 3 sets

wide grip low pully row 3 sets

db row 3 sets

strait arm pull downs with rope 3 sets

db shrugs 4 sets


----------



## DRED

not sure wether to have my cheat meal saturday,just so if it does not go down to well i have sunday to deal with it....

one day early should,nt hurt?


----------



## hackskii

Greekgoddess said:


> Just read up on magnesium, now it all makes more sense to me. It says that people who are wheat and gluten intolerant are more likely to be magnesium deficient- thats me! Why didn't the docs mention it when I was diagnosed ? It would also explain the cramps and pins and needles in my hands , that I have been getting at night, for months


For the same freaking reason they tell women to eat more calcium for bone issues and all the while it just may be defiencies in vitamin D.

Interestingly Vitamin D is called calciferol.............

It probably is one of the most common defiencies there is.

By being defiecent in D, calcium cant or is compromised for absorption.

Beings that many people dont get the 20 minutes of sun a day like they should, bingo, defiencies occur.

Now they are comming to some kind of connection in prostate issues and D defiencies.

If that is the case, then the uterus is at risk too then, as they are the same developmental tissues.

Goddess, everything plays together.

A band just does not sound right with a missing piece of the band.

Anyway, sorry for the hyjack.


----------



## DRED

always welcome in here scott :thumb:


----------



## The Bam

The diet sounds sh*t hot, I love just living on protein & Fats so hopefully I wont find it to hard to stick too.

Just wondering can any one tell me how many calories I should be having on a KETO diet because Im defiantly not a 250 pound animal like DRED.

Stats

6ft1"

94kg / 14.8 stone

12 % Body fat

What do we think is a suitable calorie intake?

And If someone can give me an example of what it would look like I will **** myself in excitement cheers guys


----------



## DRED

Eat_Train_Sleep said:


> This keto diet seems very interesting and easy to follow. Dred how long have you been on and how many lbs have you lost?


this is my second week,i lost 5 pound the first week....

but i am not gonna get bothered about numbers and go by the mirror....


----------



## Kezz

nice one thats what i am gonna do.... i have lost 6lb since monday!! all muscle prob, LOL


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> nice one thats what i am gonna do.... i have lost 6lb since monday!! all muscle prob, LOL


all water i would say mate,i am still up most of the night taking a ****...

i even have an old protien tub down my gym because i was running back to the house between sets.....


----------



## Kezz

yes it will prob settle down by sat, then hopefully a nice consistent drop each week... 6or 7 litres of water is a right pain to drink isnt it!!


----------



## hilly

i think im hitting 4-5 comfortably any more and i feel sickish


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> yes it will prob settle down by sat, then hopefully a nice consistent drop each week... 6or 7 litres of water is a right pain to drink isnt it!!


i have been taking a 5ltr bottle to work and finishing it when i get in,then a couple more ltrs in the evening....

have to say i feel quite thirsty on this diet....


----------



## DRED

i keep goin through what i should have my cheat meal....all i can say is the list is long at the moment...


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> It's not the diet per se, it's the high water intake.
> 
> If you're not dieting as contest prep 5lt a day is enough.


so is it the amount of water i am drinking that is making me thirsty?

if that makes sence :lol:


----------



## Kezz

Greekgoddess said:


> Yes, all the protein makes me thirsty as well.Now, I've got back into keto I feel hot again instead of being frozen all the time when I am going into it.
> 
> Managaging around 4 or 5 litres a day at the moment. Mostly water, but some herbal tea as well. Oh , how I miss the cappuchinos!


 I am still having 3 coffees a day


----------



## walks

Gonna start this diet myself Saturday.

i was planning on doing it in a few weeks after id used all my pro-peptide up, but ive just ate 2 13" pizzas:no: so i might as well start it now


----------



## Grim_Reaper

*TWO* 13" wow I struggle to eat one 8"


----------



## walks

Grim_Reaper said:


> *TWO* 13" wow I struggle to eat one 8"


Yep, im a fat b4stard.

But not for much longer


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> Sounds like you might be a bit dehydrated...are you using salt in your food?


i dont add salt but the peanuts are salted :confused1:


----------



## pastanchicken

Think I may have to bite the bullet get onto this diet!

Quick question if I may, with regards to the peanuts. Not a big fan of them, and bought a load of almonds (got a great deal) the other day. Can I substitute them for peanuts?

Cheers


----------



## Kezz

yes mate, i use brasil nuts, almonds, pine nuts and macadamia nuts


----------



## pastanchicken

Nice one cheers Kezz. Just been reading your diet thread, is it getting any easier for you?


----------



## Kezz

not really mate i am constantly hungry... i am doing the diet for the 250lb man but it doesnt state wether its a fat 250 or lean ish??? i would imagine it would be fat because i am constantly hungry all the time, i am on around 320 prot and 150 fat per day, i think i may need to up my food more


----------



## pastanchicken

Sounds harsh mate.

I'm around 200lbs, so I'll be eating less than that, nightmare!!


----------



## Guest

Vince said:


> Peanuts shouldn't be roasted make sure.


Whats wrong with roasted peanuts.

I eat orgainc roasted unsalted nuts. Are raw ones better?


----------



## Kezz

i think the oils get damaged in them mate


----------



## Guest

Vince said:


> When the oil is cooked its chain changes, same goes for extra virgin olive oil.


Fair point, (you too Kezz)

Cheers gents.


----------



## Kezz

the extra comes from the first press of the olives


----------



## walks

Eat_Train_Sleep said:


> What are your stats walks? I am going to be starting this diet when i get all my supps together, not sure what my BF is at the minute but will get it done before i start and post a journal.


216lb high bf 20%+.

I think about 180lb would have me in good shape.

If your getting fish oils, holand and barret have 75% off them this weekend. Just stocked up.

I was going low carb but i just end up eating ****e and missing meals, at least with this diet its set in stone and fool proof for a fool like myself.


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> As i thought you are dehydrated.
> 
> Since you have no carbs in the diet there's nothing to bind the water with therefore you HAVE to keep the sodium (salt) in the diet. Use it in normal amounts on your chicken/salmon meals.
> 
> Peanuts shouldn't be roasted make sure.


so is that wht i am goin to the loo so much?the water is goin rite through me?

so its salted peanuts....not salted roasted..

cheers vince :thumbup1:


----------



## hilly

so vince if i am going to the toilet every hour or so is this because i havnt got enough salt in my diet. i am not adding it to anything at the moment.

also should i be taking any bcaa or l glutamine.


----------



## hackskii

I thought peanut oil was pretty stable in high temps?

They deep fry turkeys in peanut oil because of this reason.

salt is in almost everything.

Eskimos are on a keto diet and they dont eat any salt, best of my knowledge.


----------



## Kezz

yeah just raw fish and whale fat.... yuk!!! lol


----------



## pastanchicken

Lol, get some whale fat down you Kezz!


----------



## Kezz

me herrings, sardines mackerel etc


----------



## beefcakebaggie

Lost 12lb since Jan 6th, I'm now into my second week & looking forward to Wednesdays cheat. Having been at a sticking point with a balanced carb / fat / protein diet it's certainly shifting now (All the hard work was in the first week, cravings seem to have gone now, just wish I could poo properly).

Love this diet! :thumbup1:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

beefcakebaggie said:


> Lost 12lb since Jan 6th, I'm now into my second week & looking forward to Wednesdays cheat. Having been at a sticking point with a balanced carb / fat / protein diet it's certainly shifting now (All the hard work was in the first week, cravings seem to have gone now, just wish I could poo properly).
> 
> Love this diet! :thumbup1:


Psyllium husk my friend :thumb:


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Psyllium husk my friend :thumb:


indeed


----------



## Bulldozer

hackskii said:


> Eskimos are on a keto diet and they dont eat any salt, best of my knowledge.


In the old days maybe.

I bet they just ring Domino's for a pizza delivery now :lol:


----------



## jonti1leg

DP reccommends a green salad with the "beef" meal., but says no tomoatoes or peppers...for us thick ferkers around, what can you put in a salad?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

im assuming by the he means a roughage only salad. so like those bags of leaves you see in tesco?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

how much veg is recomended for me to put with my meats. I have an active job and yesterday i was starving all day? are tomatoes really bad on this diet even if you macros add up at the end of they day?

Ive also realised the choc shake mix i make my shakes with is high in carbs ill have to find a low sugar one! any suggestions?


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> how much veg is recomended for me to put with my meats. I have an active job and yesterday i was starving all day? are tomatoes really bad on this diet even if you macros add up at the end of they day?
> 
> Ive also realised the choc shake mix i make my shakes with is high in carbs ill have to find a low sugar one! any suggestions?


veg....when it says a cup of say asparagus,i beleive a cup=100grms...


----------



## Kezz

i add mayo to salad leaves in my salad... i cant stand salad anyway lol, i am really missing fruit at the moment as i normaly eat loads... oh and oats and flapjacks aaaaaaarghhhhhh!!!!!!


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> i add mayo to salad leaves in my salad... i cant stand salad anyway lol, i am really missing fruit at the moment as i normaly eat loads... oh and oats and flapjacks aaaaaaarghhhhhh!!!!!!


my cheat meal tomorrow WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......

how you doin mate,are you havin a cheat meal or a cheat day? lol


----------



## Kezz

fookin day mate, lol... after going through this crap a single meal just doesnt cut the mustard!! other guys do ok on the day thing but you have to keep your fats lowish thats all.... I know its not the DP version but it still works, my next diet will be carb cycling again i think


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> fookin day mate, lol... after going through this crap a single meal just doesnt cut the mustard!! other guys do ok on the day thing but you have to keep your fats lowish thats all.... I know its not the DP version but it still works, my next diet will be carb cycling again i think


sounds good mate...i am gonna have the cheat meal tomorrow.....and save the cheat day if i have a bad week,like it sounds you have :thumb:


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> My cheat meal today and I've decided to have what I really fancy, Haggis, mashed potatoes, sweet potato wedges and turnip. Well.... I did say what I fancy! I have to cook it myself as you can't go out and find a meal like that here!
> 
> Yes Vince, I cut out the oil if I have avacado with the salad, and only usually have half the avacado at a time. I forgot to add that I use a little raddish cut up thin and raw mushrooms on my salad as well. Olives are good, not so much the bottled ones!


haggis is tasty :thumbup1:


----------



## Kezz

haggis is yummy


----------



## Kezz

DRED said:


> sounds good mate...i am gonna have the cheat meal tomorrow.....and save the cheat day if i have a bad week,like it sounds you have :thumb:


 yeah just go with the meal the, i just cant hack constantly being hungry every minute of the day, stops me from sleeping too


----------



## SOUTHMAN

im cheat mealing tomoz, going to hit up pizza hut big time like they have never seen.


----------



## Kezz

i feel like goin now mate, LOL


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> im cheat mealing tomoz, going to hit up pizza hut big time like they have never seen.


i am havin pizza & wedges so far lol :thumb:


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> yeah just go with the meal the, i just cant hack constantly being hungry every minute of the day, stops me from sleeping too


its strange i have had no hunger what so ever.....

the only real problem so far was not having any salt with anything and every thing i drank went strait through me....

so i have started adding salt to my food...


----------



## Kezz

i dont think it suits me mate, i am dizzy and starving 34/7 have upped my fats and tried everything.... i'm at a loss........ will stick with it as long as i can tho


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> i dont think it suits me mate, i am dizzy and starving 34/7 have upped my fats and tried everything.... i'm at a loss........ will stick with it as long as i can tho


indeed mate its only been a week,so its not been long yet....see if there is a change this week.....

maybe add another meal in....


----------



## DRED

i have been reading Pscarb,s page on FST-7 training and i am gonna try and bring it in to my workout....


----------



## Kezz

will have a read now


----------



## Kezz

lol my brain is fuzzy and i'm getting forgetful, LOL


----------



## DRED

delts/tri,s

delts

rear delts (crusifix) cable crossover 3 sets

side delts 3 sets

machine press 3 sets

db rear delts over incline bench 7x10

tri,s

press downs(v bar) 2 sets

reverse grip press downs(ez bar) 3 sets

rope press downs 2 sets

dip machine 7x10

:thumb:


----------



## Kezz

you gettin stronger on this diet mate? i managed 4 plates aside for 4 reps on shoulder press yesterday and last week i only got 1!!! bizzare


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> you gettin stronger on this diet mate? i managed 4 plates aside for 4 reps on shoulder press yesterday and last week i only got 1!!! bizzare


i thought i would run out of go mate,but all is good....

and i think the weights are starting to creep up a bit....

might not be important to everyone but my skin is good,no dry skin...

i am pretty chilled out to,which has surprised me because i usualy have the proper hump when down on carbs....


----------



## DRED

sorry kezz you have probably put it up somewhere.....is castle-fitness your place?


----------



## Kezz

yes mate


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> yes mate


happy days mate,how long have you been open?


----------



## Kezz

2 year in this location and 8 in the previous....... prob do another move at some point and then thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> 2 year in this location and 8 in the previous....... prob do another move at some point and then thats it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


what to a larger building?


----------



## Kezz

yeah prob mate, depends on location really


----------



## jonti1leg

DRED said:


> i thought i would run out of go mate,but all is good....
> 
> and i think the weights are starting to creep up a bit....
> 
> might not be important to everyone but my skin is good,no dry skin...
> 
> i am pretty chilled out to,which has surprised me because i usualy have the proper hump when down on carbs....


this will be the epo..i have felt so much calmer, when things have happened that i would normally lose my rag over, ive just let ride...and i take diazepam (for my hip probs) which should keep me calm in theory but doesnt


----------



## Kezz

how come this is having a different effect on you guys to me? my mate feels the same as me too........ I'm not sure i will stay on it as i am losing my rag VERY quickly with people and i am normaly very chilled out and laid back


----------



## hilly

how much fat are you havn kezz have you actually worked out the macros or are you just following the template from dave p??

also have you used any keto sticks.

i found i felt short temperd and grumpy for the first 3/4 days until i got into ketosis then i have felt fine


----------



## Kezz

i am going to carb back up this weekend and start again on monday... i cant wait another week like this i am a nightmare at the mo he he


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> i am going to carb back up this weekend and start again on monday... i cant wait another week like this i am a nightmare at the mo he he


are you eating as dp laid it out or have you changed it?

:confused1:


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> Thats it, I am stuffed full of my cheat meal. I can't eat another bite tonight.
> 
> Roll on next week! lol...


how was the haggis....did you have pudding?


----------



## walks

It just might not be the diet for you mate.

For every good report ive heard, ive heard just as many that are having the same probs as you and just dont get on with it.


----------



## Kezz

DRED said:


> are you eating as dp laid it out or have you changed it?
> 
> :confused1:


 no not doing the dp version, its a different one, lots of high gi carbs and low fat, i know lots dont agree with it but i know it works


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> no not doing the dp version, its a different one, lots of high gi carbs and low fat, i know lots dont agree with it but i know it works


why dont you try a week on the same one as me mate,see if there is a change...

i never thought this would work for me with the lack of carbs.....


----------



## Kezz

i know mate, i wish i could carry on with it but it just a nightmare, i'll try this method and if its okm i will stick with it otherwise its back to carb cycling


----------



## Kezz

DRED said:


> why dont you try a week on the same one as me mate,see if there is a change...
> 
> i never thought this would work for me with the lack of carbs.....


 i think i have been doing the same diet as you, the one for 250lb man


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> i think i have been doing the same diet as you, the one for 250lb man


yes mate thats the one....are you doin it as he says?


----------



## hackskii

jonti1leg said:


> this will be the epo..i have felt so much calmer, when things have happened that i would normally lose my rag over, ive just let ride...and i take diazepam (for my hip probs) which should keep me calm in theory but doesnt


I noticed this too, I acutally have seen it lower my pulse.

I am going to buy some of this today, I am on cycle and I could use it anyway.


----------



## jonti1leg

wow...just had mixed meat curry with chips and a bowl of mint choc chip ice cream...de-ferking-licious...oh, i feel full.... now, enough of that nice food, lets get back to work with the eggs and chicken and fish and stop ya winging bout how tasty it was Jonti, it'll soon be Saturday again.


----------



## DRED

jonti1leg said:


> wow...just had mixed meat curry with chips and a bowl of mint choc chip ice cream...de-ferking-licious...oh, i feel full.... now, enough of that nice food, lets get back to work with the eggs and chicken and fish and stop ya winging bout how tasty it was Jonti, it'll soon be Saturday again.


was that the last meal of the day?


----------



## Kezz

lol no it is zero carbs for 6 days then low fat and high gi carbs on the 7th, yes my mind is puddles lol


----------



## Kezz

yes but every day this week on the diet i have been feeling the same, ratty bad tempered and constantly hungry...... it is my first week on it but its the hunger i cant take,, thats whats making me ratty


----------



## DRED

wahooooooooooooooooo cheat meal later...

weighed myself this morning,and have lost 7lb in 2 weeks :thumb:

had a cup of tea this morning....oh i have missed tea...

i trained delts and tri,s yesterday and tried fst-7 method .....OMG have not hurt like this for some time...

gonna try it again today with legs...

kezz dont give up mate.....are you following dp,s keto as he states it?


----------



## jonti1leg

DRED said:


> was that the last meal of the day?


had it at 1800, then only room left later i had a protein shake..think the main point is to have your cheat meal late so that you dont get the cravings. if i'd had my cheat meal, say lunchtime, i KNOW i would have been at the skittles and jelly tots later...this way, no room at the time and no time later. dont feel bloated this morning or any negatives. have lost no weight but lost size off stomach area, which is my main goal.


----------



## DRED

jonti1leg said:


> had it at 1800, then only room left later i had a protein shake..think the main point is to have your cheat meal late so that you dont get the cravings. if i'd had my cheat meal, say lunchtime, i KNOW i would have been at the skittles and jelly tots later...this way, no room at the time and no time later. dont feel bloated this morning or any negatives. have lost no weight but lost size off stomach area, which is my main goal.


do you look full from the carbs or is there no difference?


----------



## jonti1leg

no difference mate


----------



## Cap'n Beefy

Had first cheat meal on Friday, 13" dominos, couldn't quite finish though.

Interestingly, was weaker in the gym yesterday than anytime in the previous fortnight.

Bowels are back in action though!! Ooooooooooooh!!! :thumb:


----------



## DRED

gg at least you gave it a go and your health is more important


----------



## DRED

legs

superset..leg extentions/leg curl 1x warm up 3 working

recumbant leg press 2 narrow stance/2 wide stance

leg extentions fst-7 7x10

amazing pump and i am having trouble walking at the moment

:thumb :fst-7:thumb:


----------



## Grim_Reaper

DRED m8,

Why extensions twice and what's this fst-7


----------



## Kezz

i am trying to get vast quantities of high gi carbs down me today, god i feel sick lol, veins are like bloody hosepipes at the moment!!!


----------



## Kezz

it would sink a battleship hahaha, sorry the diet hasnt worked for you, i found it well tough last week.. but i recon another tough week ahead, i am actually looking foreward to eating some normal bland food!!!


----------



## DRED

Grim_Reaper said:


> DRED m8,
> 
> Why extensions twice and what's this fst-7


 http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/advanced-bodybuilding/48291-fst-7-article-part-1-2-a.html


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> i am trying to get vast quantities of high gi carbs down me today, god i feel sick lol, veins are like bloody hosepipes at the moment!!!


 :nono: thats not fair........i got to wait another 3 hours for mine :thumbup1:


----------



## Kezz

why have you got to wait 3 hours?? just have it now!!!


----------



## DRED

just had pizza,sweet potatoe wedges and a can of coke......

waiting for home made rice pudding but i am having trouble keeping my eyes open :confused1:

i am so full up my belly hurts....


----------



## Kezz

fit some more in before you fall asleep!!


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> fit some more in before you fall asleep!!


mate i just had home made rice pudding....how nice was that..

now i do feel sick....


----------



## walks

Jumping into this diet in the morrning.

Think it could work well for me as i always feel like crap after eating carbs.


----------



## LittleChris

Running this diet and enjoying the results.

Is there any benefit in keeping the cheat meal clean?

Last week I had two boxes of oatcakes, so around 240g of carbs

Was looking to do the same again this week, with the addition of a packet of wine gums immediately PWO.

Have you tried both clean and dirty? Haven't really found any definitive answer on this and don't want to slow down my progress by messing up this aspect.


----------



## walks

LittleChris said:


> Running this diet and enjoying the results.
> 
> Is there any benefit in keeping the cheat meal clean?
> 
> Last week I had two boxes of oatcakes, so around 240g of carbs
> 
> Was looking to do the same again this week, with the addition of a packet of wine gums immediately PWO.
> 
> Have you tried both clean and dirty? Haven't really found any definitive answer on this and don't want to slow down my progress by messing up this aspect.


Dave reccomends it as a cheat meal.

He says if you keep it clean then its not a cheat meal.


----------



## hackskii

Clean is not processed........

Clean is just that, clean...


----------



## Grim_Reaper

DRED said:


> <o></o>
> 
> <o></o><o></o><o></o><o></o>
> 
> 8OZ TURKEY<o></o>
> 
> 8OZ PORK<o></o>
> 
> 8OZ BEEF<o></o><o></o><o></o><o></o><o></o>


DRED,

Do you just pick one of these to go with meal 5 or eat all of them.

Also i weigh 207lbs = 94 kgs how do you work everything out what to eat n all that???


----------



## DRED

Grim_Reaper said:


> DRED,
> 
> Do you just pick one of these to go with meal 5 or eat all of them.
> 
> Also i weigh 207lbs = 94 kgs how do you work everything out what to eat n all that???


i am on the one for a 250ib man,if you read the other dp journal it gives you the diet for a 200ib man...

which would probably be better for you mate...

its all there for you mate


----------



## DRED

could not eat my eggs this morning still pretty stuffed from last night...

slept well and was not up all night taking a pee...

do feel a bit slugish though...


----------



## Kezz

i had around 1100g of unclean carbs yesterday, feel big, full and strong today also bloody starving!!! i scoffed down my eggs this morning at record speed!!


----------



## Grim_Reaper

What other dp journal,

Do you have a link mate I can't find it???


----------



## SOUTHMAN

my pizza hut was good yesterday but damm it was slow service and i could of eatern twice as much. I had the ****s in the night tho and dont feel like eating just yet! is there ay chance this is to do with the introduction of carbs after a week?


----------



## walks

Just struggled to get the 9 eggs down. I think i will just eat the 5 omega 3 eggs from know on, drop the whites and have a bit of chicken instead.

Took me 45mins to get 3/4 of an omelet down.

1 meal in and I'm already changing it


----------



## Guest

DRED said:


> :nono: thats not fair........i got to wait another 3 hours for mine :thumbup1:


Think yourself lucky, mines not untill Saterday! been on a week already.

Down 9lbs like so im not complaining


----------



## hilly

Eat_Train_Sleep said:


> Im starting this diet when i get my supps orderd. What do we need the evening primrose oil for? Does the whey have to be whey iso or will whey with 1.0g of carbs with each serving be ok?
> 
> For the guys on this diet, how is your strength in the gym and what rep and set range do you use.


i am using reflex whey with 1g carb per 40g protein and its workin fine.


----------



## pastanchicken

Seriously considering this diet now. Can I just ask a quick question? I sruggle getting meat down on it's own, this being the case, how detramental to the diet would it be if I ate my chicken etc with salad leaves?


----------



## hilly

you can have lettuce or broccoli with this diet mate. i have 100g with my dinner and 100g with my tea


----------



## Guest

pastanchicken said:


> Seriously considering this diet now. Can I just ask a quick question? I sruggle getting meat down on it's own, this being the case, how detramental to the diet would it be if I ate my chicken etc with salad leaves?


Well, its not 'the' diet so results may vary. However, ive been eating quite a lot of veg (in the absence of PH to keep things moving) and its not done me any harm. Keep it green though. No fruit (tomatoes, red peppers are high in fructose too.)

That said, there's only 1 meat and no veg meal in the diet. Can you not bang down a chicken breast without salad?


----------



## pastanchicken

Cheers fellas. Was going to steer clear on tomatoes etc anyway, can quite happily eat lettuce and broccoli.

Lol, suppose when you put it like that, I could gobble down a cajun chicken breast!

Cheers lads!


----------



## pastanchicken

Grim_Reaper said:


> What other dp journal,
> 
> Do you have a link mate I can't find it???


think I've found the 200lbs diet mate. this is what i'll be on too:

*For a 200lb man:*

*
*

*
*MEAL #1

5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2

SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3

"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4

SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5

"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6

SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

:beer:


----------



## LittleChris

Does anybody have info on what DP says about the cheat meal?

How it should change, if at all, as the diet progresses for example.

What it can be- it is basically a carb top up from my understanding, but not sure if it is OK to have fats with this.

i.e. Are sweet pots and oats preferred to a 13inch Dominoes? :laugh:


----------



## Kezz

cheat meal is a cheat mate, just eat what you like pizza etc as long as you are getting the carbs in..... i am doing a different version which is simple carbs and low fat


----------



## DRED

Grim_Reaper said:



> What other dp journal,
> 
> Do you have a link mate I can't find it???


here you go mate have a search through that.....


----------



## beefcakebaggie

POPPA BEAR said:


> Psyllium husk my friend :thumb:


Thanks Poppa Bear, when I started the diet I was taking fibregel instead but it just did not work, I've now replaced with the husk (Still taking the odd fibregel when I feel I need to), I'm taking 2 tablets of 500mg 3 times per day Should that be enough on it's own?

Cheers


----------



## pastanchicken

Ordered some husk myself this morning hope it works!


----------



## pastanchicken

Just thought of something else - coffee should be limited to two cups a day. Is there a reason behind this? I don't drink a lot of coffee, but I do take caffeine pills. Is this something I should be steering clear of?


----------



## LiftHeavy

Why do we need the evening primrose oil? And where to get the husk from?

Is a chinese dish with chips and ice cream after ok for the cheat meal. How have you guys found your strength on this diet?

How long did dave palumbo recommend staying on this diet?

Would is be ok to have 4 whole eggs first and last meal for a 200lb person, i struggle to eat more i could possibly get 5 down?

I also thought on the diet you could only eat 1 30g serving of veg? like brocolli?

And when on this diet, how much cardio did you guys do the first couple of weeks? I was thinking 3 45mins a week? When the weight slows up this to 5 then 7?


----------



## pastanchicken

I see, thanks for that. The man is a sadist! :laugh:


----------



## pastanchicken

LiftHeavy said:


> Why do we need the evening primrose oil? And where to get the husk from?
> 
> Is a chinese dish with chips and ice cream after ok for the cheat meal. How have you guys found your strength on this diet? How long did dave palumbo recommend staying on this diet?
> 
> Does the whey have to be whey isolate?
> 
> Would is be ok to have 4 whole eggs first and last meal for a 200lb person, i struggle to eat more i could possibly get 5 down?
> 
> I also thought on the diet you could only eat 1 30g serving of veg? like brocolli?
> 
> And when on this diet, how much cardio did you guys do the first couple of weeks? I was thinking 3 45mins a week? When the weight slows up this to 5 then 7?


Got my husk from Holland & Barret website matey


----------



## Guest

pastanchicken said:


> I see, thanks for that. The man is a sadist! :laugh:


Once you get over the initial 'hump' its ok mate. I bang some caffeine down pre morning cardio and im good all day.


----------



## pastanchicken

mikex101 said:


> Once you get over the initial 'hump' its ok mate. I bang some caffeine down pre morning cardio and im good all day.


So you still take the caffeie? OK, cheers.

Anybody know why he says not to? :beer:


----------



## Guest

pastanchicken said:


> So you still take the caffeie? OK, cheers.
> 
> Anybody know why he says not to? :beer:


I do, but ive asked the question on the MD page, so will let you know what they say when they say it.


----------



## hilly

he suggests clen and t3/t4 i believe for weight loss supps as well as his own. im sure i read this.


----------



## pastanchicken

mikex101 said:


> I do, but ive asked the question on the MD page, so will let you know what they say when they say it.


Top man, cheers :beer:


----------



## pastanchicken

Didn't know that. Thanks Vince


----------



## Guest

cheers Vince.

One of the guys (Myth,who seems to know his stuff) on MD just said)

"A few cups of coffee or caffeinated diet soda are fine. 200mg caffeine pre-cardio and/or pre-workout is fine as well. Just don't take massive amounts of caffeine-based fat burners every single day. You don't want to raise your cortisol levels too high."

After some other advice im going to try dropping the caff in the morning (after ive just bought 200caps!) if im having bother ill probably half the dose. I am not a morning person!


----------



## pastanchicken

Top stuff guys, thanks for clearing that up :rockon:


----------



## Guest

Vince said:


> Myth is a good lad...helped me loads in 2007.
> 
> If you're not a morning person keep the 200mg of caffeine before cardio and 2 more cups of coffee during the day, you'll be fine.


Yeah, he seems to know his stuff.

The morning caffeine is all i have normally. Dont drink coffee, cant stand it. Im going to give it a wirl without caffeine, nothing ventured nothing gained.


----------



## hackskii

Coffee can increase fasting blood glucose levels, this is counterproductive for insulin sensitivity.


----------



## The Bam

So Come on then Dred you animal hows the progress ?

is the diet for you ?

easy to stick too ?

all the best mate


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> So Come on then Dred you animal hows the progress ?
> 
> is the diet for you ?
> 
> easy to stick too ?
> 
> all the best mate


this is the first diet i have managed to stick to.....

i think its easy mate...

cheers buddy :thumb:


----------



## DRED

chest/biceps

incline pec dec 1 warm up 3 sets working

incline press machine 3 sets

flat press machine 3 sets

cable crossover fst-7 7x10(not enough weight this time)

db curls 2 sets

db hammer curls 2 sets

cable curls v bar 2 sets

db concentration curls fst-7 7x10(not heavy enough)


----------



## philip41

hackskii said:


> Coffee can increase fasting blood glucose levels, this is counterproductive for insulin sensitivity.


Are you saying coffee is not a good idea if doing fasted cardio?


----------



## hackskii

philip41 said:


> Are you saying coffee is not a good idea if doing fasted cardio?


That is not what I said.

Cycling coffee has much benefits.

Staying on, has little benefits, cycling has much benefits.

This is what I am saying.

One thing that would offer much more success is water, before resting or fasted cardio..........Outside of caffeene, and including caffeene.


----------



## DRED

i felt like i never lifted enough on the fst-7 part of my work out last night....but my bi,s and chest are sore this morning.


----------



## philip41

hackskii said:


> That is not what I said.
> 
> Cycling coffee has much benefits.
> 
> Staying on, has little benefits, cycling has much benefits.
> 
> This is what I am saying.
> 
> One thing that would offer much more success is water, before resting or fasted cardio..........Outside of caffeene, and including caffeene.


I did not think that is what you meant, but just wanted you to clarify for me, thankyou.


----------



## DB

anyone have a list of what veg he says you are allowed to eat on the diet?


----------



## walks

DB said:


> anyone have a list of what veg he says you are allowed to eat on the diet?


Basically the greens

Spinach, broccoli, green beans ect.

For anyone on this diet

Ive changed a few things around from the diet template. I noticed that the diet for a 200lb man contains more than the recommend 0.5g fat per lb of bodyweight about 40g more.

What Ive done is use the diet as posted but lowered the macros so i get 50g protein and 16g fat per meal. Ive also dropped the EVOO from the fish meal but kept it with the Steak. if you keep it with the fish meal then your getting about 40g of fat from that meal alone

Just something to consider if you weight loss slows


----------



## walks

Vince said:


> I've tried doing that 2 years ago and it worked against me, i went flat and tired.
> 
> So i asked him and he said only to count the ADDED fats (oil, nuts, etc) in your meal allowance on top of what is already in the meat/salmon.
> 
> If you think about it 6 eggs are way more than 15gr of fats but it works.
> 
> If weight loss stops either increase cardio or add pro/veg days.


Cheers. I was getting 50+g just from the fish and eggs thought it would be way too much with the rest.

Currently just talking in the whole eggs with some chicken, cant get all the eggs and whites down in one go.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

can somebody please point me in the direction of the diet for a 200lb man


----------



## RXnik

youve found it reaper


----------



## Grim_Reaper

RXnik said:


> youve found it reaper


No mate, this is DRED's diet for a 250LB man.

There is supposed to be one for a 200LB man someware??


----------



## walks

Vince said:


> How many eggs are you eating? Or trying to eat


5 yokes 4 whites.

The yolks arent a problem, ive swapped the whites for a bit of chicken


----------



## pastanchicken

Grim_Reaper said:


> No mate, this is DRED's diet for a 250LB man.
> 
> There is supposed to be one for a 200LB man someware??


I posted it for you a couple of pages back mate


----------



## pastanchicken

For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1

5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2

SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3

"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4

SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5

"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6

SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Basically the greens
> 
> Spinach, broccoli, green beans ect.
> 
> For anyone on this diet
> 
> Ive changed a few things around from the diet template. I noticed that the diet for a 200lb man contains more than the recommend 0.5g fat per lb of bodyweight about 40g more.
> 
> What Ive done is use the diet as posted but lowered the macros so i get 50g protein and 16g fat per meal. Ive also dropped the EVOO from the fish meal but kept it with the Steak. if you keep it with the fish meal then your getting about 40g of fat from that meal alone
> 
> Just something to consider if you weight loss slows


imo you should do it as he says and see how it goes before making those changes....


----------



## Grim_Reaper

pastanchicken said:


> For a 200lb man:
> 
> MEAL #1
> 
> 5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)
> 
> MEAL #2
> 
> SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)
> 
> MEAL #3
> 
> "Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)
> 
> MEAL #4
> 
> SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)
> 
> MEAL #5
> 
> "Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar
> 
> MEAL #6
> 
> SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites


THANK YOU:beer: :thumb:


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> imo you should do it as he says and see how it goes before making those changes....


Yep thats what im gonna do. Id been reading myth and legends thread over there and they both say to count the fat from fish and eggs towards you daily target.



Vince said:


> Forget the 4 whites, stick to 5 whole eggs on pro/fat days and 12 whites on pro/veg


Sounds good. Doubt i be doing any pro/veg days, as im not planning on getting the BF sub 12%.

Been on it 2 days now, not had any loss of energy. If anything im getting a wired feeling from the fish oil caps.

Had a dull headache for an hour or so nothing to bad.

As for the food, I'm full all the time and struggle to get it all down. Only down side is a bit of indigestion after each meal and feeling bloated most of the day.

Oh and a bit of trouble sleeping.

Apart from that its going fine and im craving nothing


----------



## DRED

headaches go mate i had those for a couple of days...

what time do you have your first meal?

i am just eating my last one now and i have my first one at 6.30 am...


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> headaches go mate i had those for a couple of days...
> 
> what time do you have your first meal?
> 
> i am just eating my last one now and i have my first one at 6.30 am...


About 45mins after i get up.

Its eggs im having as well


----------



## DRED

back/traps

wide grip pull downs 1xwarm up 3xworking

close grip seated row 3xworking

d.handle cable rows 3xworking

strait arm pull downs(rope) 3xworking

wide grip pull downs fst-7

db shrugs 3xworking

cable shrugs fst-7

great pump....traps hurting already


----------



## Kezz

are you finding you are getting sorer on this diet, i feel like i have been ran over by a truck and its only wednesday!!! roll on cheat day to fill the tank up again!!


----------



## TH0R

Kezz said:


> are you finding you are getting sorer on this diet, i feel like i have been ran over by a truck and its only wednesday!!! roll on cheat day to fill the tank up again!!


How are you feeling now Kezz, still starving or not to bad now?


----------



## Kezz

feeling fine now mate, slight hunger but nothing more than it should be.... last week was hell!!!


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> are you finding you are getting sorer on this diet, i feel like i have been ran over by a truck and its only wednesday!!! roll on cheat day to fill the tank up again!!


yes mate doms is quite bad.....

but strength is still good though mate....

been thinking about my cheat meal and what to have....

have you decided what you havin yet?...


----------



## Kezz

I had plenty on sunday, 8 pancakes and syrup, box of pop tarts, 6 waffles and syrup, half a box of sugar puffs, oats and protein and a few eggs oh and a box of weight watchers cakes


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> I found that the doms was much worse when on the keto diet. The magnesium at bedtime helped ease them off. Nothing was as bad as the joint pains though, which have now gone since I am four days into carb cycling.


and how is the carb cycling goin?


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> I had plenty on sunday, 8 pancakes and syrup, box of pop tarts, 6 waffles and syrup, half a box of sugar puffs, oats and protein and a few eggs oh and a box of weight watchers cakes


looks like you was havin a sugar binge there mate....

what about this week is it gonna be one meal?...


----------



## Kezz

will be a day again mate, i want to get at least 1000g in so will take the day to do it, i am still losing weight doing it this way so will stick with it


----------



## walks

I swear i was so bloated last night when i went to bed that i thought i was pregnant.

got some psyllium husk today and have been talking it between meals. It has eased the bloat.

Seem to be getting bad guts from the isolate, does anyone know if pea protein isolate is better on the gut?

Still not hungry but today is day 3 and the first time Ive been craving crap.

Thinking of having my cheat meal 2 days early as id rather have it on a weekend dont see how it will make much difference


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> I swear i was so bloated last night when i went to bed that i thought i was pregnant.
> 
> got some psyllium husk today and have been talking it between meals. It has eased the bloat.
> 
> Seem to be getting bad guts from the isolate, does anyone know if pea protein isolate is better on the gut?
> 
> Still not hungry but today is day 3 and the first time Ive been craving crap.
> 
> Thinking of having my cheat meal 2 days early as id rather have it on a weekend dont see how it will make much difference


are you getting the ****s from the protein?

i have not been hungry once on this diet and i am shaw i read that you dont...


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> are you getting the ****s from the protein?
> 
> i have not been hungry once on this diet and i am shaw i read that you dont...


No ive not craped yet. Just getting bad guts off the protien feel like im gonna spew.

ive not been hungry once, if anything i struggle to eat all the food. I was craving junk and i wasnt even hungry.

Im gonna give the husk a few days to work, i bought the caps but i might just empty them into the shake.

Had a goo wieghts session today, felt a little light headed but i just take my time between sets


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> No ive not craped yet. Just getting bad guts off the protien feel like im gonna spew.
> 
> ive not been hungry once, if anything i struggle to eat all the food. I was craving junk and i wasnt even hungry.
> 
> Im gonna give the husk a few days to work, i bought the caps but i might just empty them into the shake.
> 
> Had a goo wieghts session today, felt a little light headed but i just take my time between sets


i think if you empty the husks into a shake they will swell up....drop one in a glass of water and see if they do....

try lactalose it might help you go to the toilet....

it takes a few days to adjust mate...


----------



## The Bam

Dred mate are you using any pre work out on your KETO or not ?

Just wondering, because Ive got extreme nutrition's liquid fury and BSN No-explode

you recon I could use them if Ur on Keto or not ?

cheers bud hope your well


----------



## beefcakebaggie

walks said:


> No ive not craped yet. Just getting bad guts off the protien feel like im gonna spew.
> 
> ive not been hungry once, if anything i struggle to eat all the food. I was craving junk and i wasnt even hungry.
> 
> Im gonna give the husk a few days to work, i bought the caps but i might just empty them into the shake.
> 
> Had a goo wieghts session today, felt a little light headed but i just take my time between sets


Reading the back of the bottle on my husks it says to take them 30 mins to an hour before food, not at the same time, try that first & up the dose until everythings moving (I took fibregel as well), once the wheels are in motion irt will get better, wait till you have your cheat day, if your anything like me you'll be shi***ng like a racehorse the day after.


----------



## walks

beefcakebaggie said:


> Reading the back of the bottle on my husks it says to take them 30 mins to an hour before food, not at the same time, try that first & up the dose until everythings moving (I took fibregel as well), once the wheels are in motion irt will get better, wait till you have your cheat day, if your anything like me you'll be shi***ng like a racehorse the day after.


Thats what ive been doing. Anyway i finaly gone today

Feel like complete crap today. Started this monday and had no drop in energy untill today.

May have somthing to do with my workout yesterday. Also i was quite tired this morrning didnt want to get out of bed, since i started id been waking at 6am and not sleeping well.

Looks like things are starting to happen. Resting HR is up a little and i feel hotter.

Only been getting about 4ltrs of water cant drink anymore or i cant eat my meals

Oh and ive got the keto Doms:thumb:


----------



## Kezz

thursday is the day i get ratty.... ah its thursday so now wonder i am in a foul mood


----------



## hackskii

Remember guys psyllium expands between 50 to 60 times, and if you dont drink enough water, you may cause it to become a blockage.

You must up the water intake with psyllium.

Consider some magnesium as well, magnesium draws water into the intestines, this will influence evacuation, and depending on how much it works well.


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> Dred mate are you using any pre work out on your KETO or not ?
> 
> Just wondering, because Ive got extreme nutrition's liquid fury and BSN No-explode
> 
> you recon I could use them if Ur on Keto or not ?
> 
> cheers bud hope your well


i am using no explode and nitrix


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> thursday is the day i get ratty.... ah its thursday so now wonder i am in a foul mood


lol mate only a couple of days till the cheat day.....

have you lost anymore weight?


----------



## Kezz

am down but i'm not gonna weigh myself anymore as it messes with my head!!! i am leaner and more vascular but i dont like this diet much as it makes my head feel weird hahaha thursday onwards i turn into the Wolf!!!!


----------



## TH0R

Kezz said:


> am down but i'm not gonna weigh myself anymore as it messes with my head!!! i am leaner and more vascular but i dont like this diet much as it makes my head feel weird hahaha thursday onwards i turn into the Wolf!!!!


That bloke from Gladiators, man, he's a pussy cat:laugh:


----------



## r6richie

get some more pics up mate.. lets see how your doin... cool diet


----------



## walks

Kezz said:


> am down but i'm not gonna weigh myself anymore as it messes with my head!!! i am leaner and more vascular but i dont like this diet much as it makes my head feel weird hahaha thursday onwards i turn into the Wolf!!!!


Its been messing with my head today, luckly i found somthing to keep me sane, Nandos peri peri hot sauce

No more horible dry boaring chicken.

I feel better already.

Did you guys wait the full 14 days for your cheat meal?


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Its been messing with my head today, luckly i found somthing to keep me sane, Nandos peri peri hot sauce
> 
> No more horible dry boaring chicken.
> 
> I feel better already.
> 
> Did you guys wait the full 14 days for your cheat meal?


i did mate :thumb: ....

chicken dont have to be boaring mate olive oil some chilli flakes or i bit of garlic.....

have you tried turkey?...i go to the butchers and buy a turkey crown they last a few days and is cheaper than chicken....


----------



## beefcakebaggie

walks said:


> Its been messing with my head today, luckly i found somthing to keep me sane, Nandos peri peri hot sauce
> 
> No more horible dry boaring chicken.
> 
> I feel better already.
> 
> Did you guys wait the full 14 days for your cheat meal?


16 days for me as I wanted a Wednesday night (It was murder at times), when the pizza arrived I felt guilty eating it (Didn't stop me though).

Another comment you made about water, I can't believe your not always thirsty on this diet, I can knock down 6 litres a day no problem, I reckon I could do 8 litres if it was necessary (In fact I try to get most of it in before 8PM or I'm up all night on the loo)


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> i did mate :thumb: ....
> 
> chicken dont have to be boaring mate olive oil some chilli flakes or i bit of garlic.....
> 
> have you tried turkey?...i go to the butchers and buy a turkey crown they last a few days and is cheaper than chicken....


Tried turkey today was very hard to get down, chicken isnt a problem once a day but ive droped a shake and having 2 chicken meals.

No sugar or crap in the sauce so it should be fine



beefcakebaggie said:


> 16 days for me as I wanted a Wednesday night (It was murder at times), when the pizza arrived I felt guilty eating it (Didn't stop me though).
> 
> Another comment you made about water, I can't believe your not always thirsty on this diet, I can knock down 6 litres a day no problem, I reckon I could do 8 litres if it was necessary (In fact I try to get most of it in before 8PM or I'm up all night on the loo)


TBH i just get really bloated from water, always have done. Theres no way i can drink anymore without puking or having to miss a meal.

My cheat should be on a monday but im having it on a sat insted. I can either wait an extra 5 days or have it 2 days early.

Its not really bothering me and ive not even thought about what im going to have yet.

The water bloating is doing my head no good, i feel like im getting fatter:laugh:


----------



## hilly

i waited 12 days for mine.

i do chicken in a dash of sy sauce with some spices. doesnt dry out much at all.


----------



## pastanchicken

walks said:


> Nandos peri peri hot sauce
> 
> No more horible dry boaring chicken.
> 
> I feel better already.


That stuff is awesome mate! :rockon:


----------



## Guest

walks said:


> Its been messing with my head today, luckly i found somthing to keep me sane, Nandos peri peri hot sauce
> 
> No more horible dry boaring chicken.
> 
> I feel better already.
> 
> Did you guys wait the full 14 days for your cheat meal?


Mine should be tomorrow but ive got a work doo tonight. so 13 days. I think its due to be honest. weightloss has slowed, had 0 energy in the gym last night. i think its about right.


----------



## walks

I think i know why the chicken tasted rubbish plain.

Ive been buying the cheap stuff, just had some organic chicken breasts and the difffrence in taste was amazing.

Couldnt help myself this morrning and ended up jumping on the scales, down about 4lb in 4 days. Certianly water loss as ive only done cardio once this week.

Ive started to sleep better now, noticed if i have the fish oil caps in the last meal, it takes me longer to get to sleep.

Oh and ive run out of whey so its 4 chicken meals a day untill my protein turns up (which could be anything from 1 day to 2 weeks with this company)


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> I think i know why the chicken tasted rubbish plain.
> 
> Ive been buying the cheap stuff, just had some organic chicken breasts and the difffrence in taste was amazing.
> 
> Couldnt help myself this morrning and ended up jumping on the scales, down about 4lb in 4 days. Certianly water loss as ive only done cardio once this week.
> 
> Ive started to sleep better now, noticed if i have the fish oil caps in the last meal, it takes me longer to get to sleep.
> 
> Oh and ive run out of whey so its 4 chicken meals a day untill my protein turns up (which could be anything from 1 day to 2 weeks with this company)


who do you get your protein from?

i got mine from myprotein and it was here in a couple of days...


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> who do you get your protein from?
> 
> i got mine from myprotein and it was here in a couple of days...


Same place mate, last order took 2 weeks but they did give me a free delivery voucher.

Their delivery is fine, it just takes them ages to send it out sometimes. Only put up with it because there are the cheapest ive found. Had 6 orders from them and 4 have taken a week or more to turn up.


----------



## hackskii

Simple goddess.

You add very low slow digesting carbs back into your diet, something like this.

Day 1, one apple but half in the morning half in the afternoon.

Same as day 2

Day 3 have the apple then add in half a potato

Same as day 4

By slowly adding in the carbs you probably will actually lose more weight, but choose carbs that are high in fiber like cellery, apples, carrots (moderatly on this one), some grapes, pear, and all green fiberous stuff.

The potato might want to move back some, the fructose goes to the liver to go back into the blood, this slows digestion alot.

just move slowly then add in the starch after about 2 weeks.


----------



## walks

Greekgoddess said:


> Okay folks I need some help and advice!
> 
> I came off the keto diet last weekend because I couldn't stand the joint pain anymore. The pain has now gone completely and I am sleeping like a log again.
> 
> I have kept the same bodyfat level that I had when I was on the last week of the diet which I am pleased about. My question is this- How can I avoid the rebound effect with carbs being reintroduced now I am off the diet?
> 
> I have been carb cycling this week. I had fairly high carbs on the day after I came off the diet, then two days medium, one day low, one day medium since. Has anyone any advice they can offer me to keep the bf falling?
> 
> I am trying to figure out some sort of meal plan with counted carbs that I can follow instead of plotting my nutrition every day online to work out the macros.
> 
> Thanks guys!


how long were you on the diet for?

what kind of results did you get?


----------



## DRED

just got back from an hours walk with the dog.....weighed myself this morning and i am 16.8 so i have lost almost a stone in 3 weeks....

my tummy is getting flatter,but i have now got that "i am getting small thing goin on in my head"....

i am happy about the weight loss though :thumb:


----------



## hilly

congrats with the weight loss mate. i also have that getting smaller feeling lol


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> congrats with the weight loss mate. i also have that getting smaller feeling lol


i horrible but once i get past that and the fat comes of and my waist gets smaller i should still look ok......SO I HAVE BEEN TOLD LOL:lol:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Well done mate is that a recent pic in your avvy ?


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Well done mate is that a recent pic in your avvy ?


no mate a couple of years old......


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Ah i see, didn't know if that was where you are now, keto seems to be suiting you a treat mate !!


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Ah i see, didn't know if that was where you are now, keto seems to be suiting you a treat mate !!


to be honest mate its working out great for me...i have never managed to stick to a diet ever.

i have always had a bit of winter padding shall we say...lol

and if i get it rite this time it will be a real confidence boost for me....


----------



## DRED

delts/tri,s

delts.....

db laterals 1xwarm up 3xworking

crusifix rear delts 3 working

machine press 3x working

db laterals fst-7x10

tri,s....

v bar press downs 1xwarm up 3xworking

rope press downs 3xworking

dip machine 3xworking

rope press downs fst-7x10

again a great pump :thumb:


----------



## DRED

here are some pics 3 weeks into my diet....


----------



## walks

A stone in 3 weeks, nice going.

im finding this diet very easy to stick to myself.

Im 6 days in and while ive not felt any energy increase or better wellbeing, i do feel lighter.

Sounds strange but the top half of my body shoulder upper chest upper back feels like it lost a load of weight.

Only problems im having is headaches every now and again, constant bloated feeling and ive had 1 crap since monday


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> A stone in 3 weeks, nice going.
> 
> im finding this diet very easy to stick to myself.
> 
> Im 6 days in and while ive not felt any energy increase or better wellbeing, i do feel lighter.
> 
> Sounds strange but the top half of my body shoulder upper chest upper back feels like it lost a load of weight.
> 
> Only problems im having is headaches every now and again, constant bloated feeling and ive had 1 crap since monday


no wonder your bloated if you aint dumping.....try a mild laxative before bed...

i get a headache every now and then....


----------



## hilly

lookin good dred you should look awesome at the end of this cut.


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> lookin good dred you should look awesome at the end of this cut.


thanks mate


----------



## Kezz

walks said:


> A stone in 3 weeks, nice going.
> 
> im finding this diet very easy to stick to myself.
> 
> Im 6 days in and while ive not felt any energy increase or better wellbeing, i do feel lighter.
> 
> Sounds strange but the top half of my body shoulder upper chest upper back feels like it lost a load of weight.
> 
> Only problems im having is headaches every now and again, constant bloated feeling and ive had 1 crap since monday


 well you should lose a stone when you finaly go to the loo !!


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> no wonder your bloated if you aint dumping.....try a mild laxative before bed...
> 
> i get a headache every now and then....


yep.

Currently on 3g of husk 2 servings of brocoli and 6ltrs of water. Happy with the diet just hope things start moving soon, i feel like im about to give birth


----------



## walks

Kezz said:


> well you should lose a stone when you finaly go to the loo !!


LoL

Just worked it out, ive got 8 chicken meals, 2 steak, 2 salmon half a tub of PB, 400g of whey, and 3 egg meals all sitting in there since i last went


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> yep.
> 
> Currently on 3g of husk 2 servings of brocoli and 6ltrs of water. Happy with the diet just hope things start moving soon, i feel like im about to give birth


lactulose solution you can get it over the counter and its only £2 or £3...


----------



## Kezz

hahaha thats gonna stink!!!!!!!! LOL


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> LoL
> 
> Just worked it out, ive got 8 chicken meals, 2 steak, 2 salmon half a tub of PB, 400g of whey, and 3 egg meals all sitting in there since i last went


i weighed my self the other day pre and post dump and dropped 3lb after i had a ****....lol :thumb:


----------



## dmcc

Nice undercrackers 

Looking good mate, legs and back are big!


----------



## DRED

dmcc said:


> Nice undercrackers
> 
> Looking good mate, legs and back are big!


cheers mate.....i will change them next week even if there not dirty lol


----------



## hackskii

Dred, you look like a professional wrestler.

Nice legs.


----------



## DRED

scott have you been drinking again buddy? :beer:


----------



## TeamRS

Dred good progress, i think i may try this diet for summer comming, seems easy to stcik to and yeilds good results.

How long are you going to stay on it for?

Have you took before pics, then post up after pics when u finish?

Legs are looking good. :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> scott have you been drinking again buddy? :beer:


Well, now I have been.

You are a good lad..................Nuf said mate............. :thumb:


----------



## DRED

TeamRS said:


> Dred good progress, i think i may try this diet for summer comming, seems easy to stcik to and yeilds good results.
> 
> How long are you going to stay on it for?
> 
> Have you took before pics, then post up after pics when u finish?
> 
> Legs are looking good. :thumb:


if you go back a few pages there is start pictures then the recent ones are 3 weeks in...

i think i will stay on for 8-12 weeks...

cheers mate


----------



## DRED

legs....

recumbant leg press 2xwarm up 3xworking

leg extentions 3xworking

laying leg curl 3xworking

recumbant leg press fst-7x10 various foot spacings

legs pumped and hurting


----------



## sgtbrad

can you substitute some eggs for another protein source say have 4 whole eggs and 100grms lean protein?? to make the same amount of protein..


----------



## POPPA BEAR

sgtbrad said:


> can you substitute some eggs for another protein source say have 4 whole eggs and 100grms lean protein?? to make the same amount of protein..


Eggs n bacon work well mate :thumb:


----------



## DRED

POPPA BEAR said:


> Eggs n bacon work well mate :thumb:


yum yum


----------



## FATBOY

nice going m8 the leaner you get the bigger you will look


----------



## walks

A week into this now, droped 3 lbs in the first week which is good seeing as i was dropping 2lb a week just before this diet.

Feeling tired yesterday and today but that will be down to only having 4 meals on sunday and monday.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

i was up a couple of pounds this morning but i think that could of a been a **** i was storing, im deff looking leaner. Ive also noticed that this diet is getting shot of my achne.

Training wise Im getting back up to speed on legs and pulls but my pressing has gone to ****, my triceps just don't have the power.

is anyone else feeling a bit weaker on this diet?


----------



## Kezz

i felt stronger on certain things but ran out of steam pretty fast, as with any diet i wouldnt worry about strength as it will wreck your head so just use medium - heavy and go for good strict form and train at a brisk pace


----------



## walks

SOUTHMAN said:


> i was up a couple of pounds this morning but i think that could of a been a **** i was storing, im deff looking leaner. Ive also noticed that this diet is getting shot of my achne.
> 
> Training wise Im getting back up to speed on legs and pulls but my pressing has gone to ****, my triceps just don't have the power.
> 
> is anyone else feeling a bit weaker on this diet?


Strangely yesterday i felt like crap but dragged myself to the gym and had the best workout id had for a while.

Strength is going up a little but im sure that's down to my lack of training over the last year.

I dont look any different but i can now fit into a pair of pants that i couldn't before. :thumb:


----------



## Guest

Some ****s brought a box of biscuits into the office! ive never craved a fig roll so god dam much! gits!


----------



## DRED

never got round to training monday night was still fooked from legs on sunday....

to be honest i think this diet is great its working for me...

just have to bring in a better diet than i had before for when i am happy with my weight loss...


----------



## hilly

any1 else having trouble getting to sleep on this diet?


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> any1 else having trouble getting to sleep on this diet?


sleeping like a baby as soon asi hit the pillow.....

still waking every couple of hours for a ****....

one thing though i do feel hot in the night.... :lol: not that sort of hot though!!!!


----------



## walks

hilly2008 said:


> any1 else having trouble getting to sleep on this diet?


I was durring the first week but now im fine. I was taking the fish oil with my last meal so i dropped it to 2nd last meal and now im out like a log



DRED said:


> never got round to training monday night was still fooked from legs on sunday....
> 
> to be honest i think this diet is great its working for me...
> 
> just have to bring in a better diet than i had before for when i am happy with my weight loss...


Same here, so easy to stick to after the first few days. Had trouble the last couple of days but that was down to having no whey and having to eat 6 solid meals.

Not even looking forward to my cheat meal now.

Im also wondering about what to do when i get lean enough. I know you get a rebound so ill have to sort a diet out to get the most from it.

Easiest diet I've ever done and I've not been doing the cardio yet


----------



## hackskii

hilly2008 said:


> any1 else having trouble getting to sleep on this diet?


This is likely to do with serotonin, some starchy carbs can increase this and help one sleep but this diet is a low carb diet, so chances are it is an issue with serotonin.

This can be remedied with getting some L-Tryptophan.


----------



## sgtbrad

hi guys

advice would be very welcome.

i started keto 3 days ago i am 5 11 185lbs, the break down of my diet is 2400 cal 275 protein 35 carbs 110 fat.

i only get carbs from the nuts cashews peanut butter and 4.5 grms in each shake. is this too many carbs to get into keto.

i read somewhere 40grms of carbs is ok then i read here under 30grms????

im doing an hour of cardio max 120 bpm and an hour of weights 2 body parts a session, four times a week..


----------



## DRED

sgtbrad said:


> hi guys
> 
> advice would be very welcome.
> 
> i started keto 3 days ago i am 5 11 185lbs, the break down of my diet is 2400 cal 275 protein 35 carbs 110 fat.
> 
> i only get carbs from the nuts cashews peanut butter and 4.5 grms in each shake. is this too many carbs to get into keto.
> 
> i read somewhere 40grms of carbs is ok then i read here under 30grms????
> 
> im doing an hour of cardio max 120 bpm and an hour of weights 2 body parts a session, four times a week..


and how much do those carbs add up to?


----------



## sgtbrad

today i got dayone i got 35 day 2 36 today 29


----------



## sgtbrad

i dropped one peanut butter serve and one shake


----------



## walks

The only carbs i get are from the PB. im getting 15g a day


----------



## sgtbrad

so is it not possible to get into keto on my currant carbs


----------



## POPPA BEAR

sgtbrad said:


> so is it not possible to get into keto on my currant carbs


Yes mate it is possible.


----------



## Kezz

I was i'm sure on 70g per day and i stank like i was and had horrible metal breath too.. that was the diet i did last year


----------



## POPPA BEAR

It really varies person to person, but at 30ish g a day or under you should be able to go into ketosis, give it up to a week for the first time 

Brad IMO keep the shake in and top the fats up with some olive oil instead of pb if needs be.


----------



## Kezz

does it go by body weight, say would a 20 stone person get into keto with eating more carbs than say a 14 stone bloke?? talking bodybuilders here not normal fat people


----------



## Robbyg

Get some ketostix mate that will tell you if you are or not


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Not sure mate as you'd think a 20 stoner would have more stored glycogen than average joe...But then i guess their muscles would utilise it better...

Been reading that certain aminos can speed up the process too.

If that 20 stoner was on slin then i believe ketosis can be reached in hours rather than days !!


----------



## Kezz

blimey that would be better!!


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> I was i'm sure on 70g per day and i stank like i was and had horrible metal breath too.. that was the diet i did last year


my mrs said the other night i made her gag with my breath....how rude :thumb:


----------



## sgtbrad

thanks for the feed back, ill try to get under 30 from tomo swap a shake with some tuna and get some nuts with lower carbs than cashews im only 3 days in so ill will see what happens>>

Cheer


----------



## Kezz

think cashews have loads of carbs in em


----------



## sgtbrad

yes they do 2oz has 9grms


----------



## DRED

chest/biceps

incline pec dec 1xwarm up 3xworking

incline press machine 3xworking

flat machine press 3xworking

cable crossovers 3xworking

crossovers from the bottom fst-7x10

db curls 2xworking

db hammer curls 2xworking

concentration curls 2xworking

v.bar cable curls fst-7x10

p u m p e d :thumb:


----------



## hilly

brazils are best i think


----------



## hackskii

Macadamia nuts are the highest in fat and the least in carbs, they have 1 gram of fat each nut..


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Just read this and it has took me sometime as i dont read that fast lol i am a bit slow 

I will be doing this sort of diet as i think that it will be a good diet to follow i have followed a keto diet before but made the mistake of eating carbs straight away after instead of introducing them slowly with low gi carbs first!


----------



## SOUTHMAN

what heart rate do you get upto when doing cardio??

I know it should be moderate but ive read many people say they get 120bpm. I find this heart rate difficult to get to, i have to be going pretty much all out to break (sprinting) 100 and would not be able to keep that up for more than 10mins. My girlfriend says thats because im pretty fit and will find it hard to get my hart rate up.


----------



## Robbyg

Yeah i keep my heart rate about 120bpm and walk uphill at a steedy pace to help burn fat off


----------



## LittleChris

SOUTHMAN said:


> what heart rate do you get upto when doing cardio??
> 
> I know it should be moderate but ive read many people say they get 120bpm. I find this heart rate difficult to get to, i have to be going pretty much all out to break (sprinting) 100 and would not be able to keep that up for more than 10mins. My girlfriend says thats because im pretty fit and will find it hard to get my hart rate up.


Not sure what your problem is?

I do a fast walk in the morning for 50 minutes.

Do 35 minutes cardio after the weights on a stationary bike. Lowest resistance level and spin away. Heart rate should already be elevated from the weights session so keep it there.

220 minus your age is your Max BPM. Fat burning is around 65% if that.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

its more to do with my morning cardio, i do 40 mins on a stationary bike but i cant get my heart rate above 100 unless Im doing hard cardio like sprinting. Just wanna know if the heart rate matters that much


----------



## hackskii

Vince said:


> always remember it shouldn't be high intensity tho


During low carb dieting, I think this is what Dave suggests.

HIIT is superior for fat loss though.

There is another thread on this very topic.


----------



## hermie07

just thought i would update you. i did one week of this diet and felt fine on it lost 3lbs which was ok but i had to give it up as my breath was honking, my mrs was not happy lol, so iam gonna do it again starting next monday but can i have gum to sort my brath out as cant keep doing teeth at work all day. gum is 100g of carbs per 100g so i would be alright to have a few pieces a day wont i as it would take alot of pieces to make the 100g.


----------



## hermie07

just thought gum would be easier all round,


----------



## walks

Did cardio today after legs and couldnt get my HR bellow 140.

Not had the bad breath thing, but ive not had the increase in energy either. Ive not been lacking energy apart from today but ive have been on thi diet for 10 days now. I dont even think ive hit ketosis on this diet yet.

Got my cheat meal this weekend, will see what happens the week after.


----------



## hilly

gyppo12345 said:


> just thought gum would be easier all round,


i think gum has carbs in mate?


----------



## dmcc

Admittedly this is an American source, but it should be consistent: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/sweets/7607/2 Even sugar-free gum has 2g of carbs in it.


----------



## beefcakebaggie

Since I started dieting I live with a piece of gum in my mouth (I've lost 35lb so far), as long as you use the sugar free variety you'll be OK, Per 100g is about 150 cals (100 g is a lot of gum, more than you would take in a week, still not clear on if this is spit or swallow calories though oo-er?).


----------



## hermie07

yeah thats what i meant when i said there is 100g carbs per 100g in weight of the gum and each piece of gum cant weigh much so i would say it must be like 1g per piece of gum so no biggy.


----------



## hilly

does any1 know if taking l glutamine will stop you hitting ketosis??


----------



## walks

1st cheat meal tomorrow, was looking forward to it last week but not to bothered now.

Although i do think i need it. this is my 2nd week on this diet and weight loss has already stopped.

Been feeling run down this week

Will give it 4 weeks to see how its going and if there's no improvement then ill ditch it. Although I've yet to start the cardio so hopefully that will fire things off.

If not then ill be back carb cycling and doing HITT.

hoping things start to happen as this is the easiest diet to stick to


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> 1st cheat meal tomorrow, was looking forward to it last week but not to bothered now.
> 
> Although i do think i need it. this is my 2nd week on this diet and weight loss has already stopped.
> 
> Been feeling run down this week
> 
> Will give it 4 weeks to see how its going and if there's no improvement then ill ditch it. Although I've yet to start the cardio so hopefully that will fire things off.
> 
> If not then ill be back carb cycling and doing HITT.
> 
> hoping things start to happen as this is the easiest diet to stick to


which diet you following mate the 200lb man or 250lb man?


----------



## Kezz

walks said:


> 1st cheat meal tomorrow, was looking forward to it last week but not to bothered now.
> 
> Although i do think i need it. this is my 2nd week on this diet and weight loss has already stopped.
> 
> Been feeling run down this week
> 
> Will give it 4 weeks to see how its going and if there's no improvement then ill ditch it. Although I've yet to start the cardio so hopefully that will fire things off.
> 
> If not then ill be back carb cycling and doing HITT.
> 
> hoping things start to happen as this is the easiest diet to stick to


 you should be doing cardio mate


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> you should be doing cardio mate


i might have to start the weight loss is starting to slow down now


----------



## Kezz

DRED said:


> i might have to start the weight loss is starting to slow down now


 how are you finding it now?? are you sticking to the diet for the 250lb man? i dont know which 250lb man it was made for but i was bloody starving on it!! LOL


----------



## Guest

Re chewing gum.

Im sitting looking at a pack of sugarfree Extra.

Typical values/100g Carbs = 60g. Of which sugars 0g, polyols 60g.

Interesting article re polyols:

http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/sugaralcohols.htm


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> which diet you following mate the 200lb man or 250lb man?


the 200lb one. However i have lowerd the protien and fat slightly as my BF is over 20%



Kezz said:


> you should be doing cardio mate


I know but its to damm cold.

Will be doing 30mins 2x a day from here on in.

As i said before i dont think ive hit ketosis in these 2 weeks, ive not had any of the benifits or symptoms of a keto deit.

Anyway i will plod on, i always give a diet at least 6 weeks to see if its working or not


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> how are you finding it now?? are you sticking to the diet for the 250lb man? i dont know which 250lb man it was made for but i was bloody starving on it!! LOL


lovin it mate....still sticking to the 250lb diet...

added salt to my food as i was dehydrated so the water did not pass strait through me...

lips are still dry and a bit chapped though :cool2:


----------



## walks

The first week i was doing the diet to the letter but I got told over at the MD forums that if your under 20%bf then do it as described but if your over then you need to calculate it based on lean body weight.

Anyhow the 200lb diet is only 300cals below my maintenance so i wouldn't expect great weight loss

There's conflicting info over there, They say 1.5g pro & 0.5g fat per lb of body weight. now that and Dave's example diet does not end up with the same cals.

There's 20g less fat in Dave's example and a little less protein


----------



## walks

Vince said:


> Dave's example is just that, an example. He says that for more accurate macros you should go to him (obviously since is his job) so i'd just stick to whichever you find best for you and add cardio


Yeah. Going to chuck in the cardio and go from there.

If nothing comes of it then i can always go back to what i know works.

Only started this due to everyone saying it was better for quicker fat loss.


----------



## DRED

back...

wide grip pull downs 1xwarm up 3xworking

seated row with tricep rope 3xworking

pull down behind the neck 3xworking

strait arm pull downs with rope 3xworking


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi sorry to butt in but enjoyed this thread so far and will be starting keto diet once i read a bit more, but since we all need a good source of protein on this diet or any diet for that matter, just wondered if any of you guys has heard of, Spirulina as a supplement i read it is a good source of protein, and is also packed with calcium, just a thought, and again didn't mean to butt in.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi sorry to butt in but enjoyed this thread so far and will be starting keto diet once i read a bit more, but since we all need a good source of protein on this diet or any diet for that matter, just wondered if any of you guys has heard of, Spirulina as a supplement i read it is a good source of protein, and is also packed with calcium, just a thought, and again didn't mean to butt in.


----------



## DRED

weighed myself this morning and seem to have gained 3lb :cursing:

i know i should not go by the scales every week but you know how it is...

so i guess its time to start cardio,the bike is comin out the garage...

1,how many times a week?

2,how long for?


----------



## hilly

id start with 5/6 times a week 30 mins pre breakfast.

i do mon-sat and have sunday off.


----------



## mattiasl

If you have a problem with water and dint like diet drinks what can you have instead?


----------



## mattiasl

Vince said:


> Christal Light...if you have it in Sweden, or if you know someone in the States you can ask them to send a few sachets


I tried to google on it but found nothing.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

im doing cardio pre breakfast every morning and doing a little cardio at night roughly 4 times a week. I must say from doing cardio i am feeling very fit.

Ive had alot of comments saying im looking thinner and my skin is looking healthier. I haven't had the energy burst many describe, i get very tired towards the end of the day but i expect that as Im doing cardio in the morning and eating less

Im looking leaner and doesnt look like much muscle is being lost.


----------



## walks

Vince said:


> I keep hearing about this energy burst ppl are expecting...can somebody point to me where it says so? DP only says you'll keep consistent energy levels (no dip in blood sugar levels) and that energy should be roughly the same as before dieting. Obviously the farther you keep dieting and the more cardio you add is gonna influence your energy levels in the long run.
> 
> At the end of the day it's a diet (i.e caloric deficit) so don't expect to go cartwheeling around looking happy


In his 500 page thread dave says you will feel like crap the first few days and then get an energy boost when you hit ketosis.

Not had it myself but TBH i dont care as long as im burning the fat.

Dred

Ive ditched the scales now. Only going by the mirror.

I find it demoralising when you diet all week and end up the same weight.

Ill be weighing myself at the end of every month and just be using the tape measure instead


----------



## SOUTHMAN

ive read alot of people say they feel more energised on the diet due to the lack on insulin spikes (post lunch coma). I def feel like i have less energy. I have a fairly physical job so it doesnt suprise me


----------



## DRED

delts/traps

db side laterals 1xwarm up 4xworking

cable rear delts 4xworking

cable upright rows 4xworking

machine press fst-7x10

db shrugs 5 sets


----------



## SOUTHMAN

lol yeah know what you mean


----------



## hermie07

Hi as a treat can you have a can of coke zero as it has no carbs in it and no sugar?


----------



## hilly

i believe dave p says you can have diet coke.


----------



## DRED

had my cheat meal last night,indian followed by cheesecake and some coke(FIZZY STUFF)...

got up this morning,normally bloated after a cheat but today so hungry and no bloat.....


----------



## DRED

cheers Vince i am just doin it as it was written,not adding any extras or taking anything of....

i am starting cardio this week as the loss has stopped,but it could also be down to gaining some muscle as my diet is now better than its ever been.

:thumb:


----------



## The Bam

Dred a quick one for you buddy got all my supps for diet that you use, just wondering if a keto would be any good for me really, pretty lean just wanting drop a few % body fat, you recon a keto or a timed carbs (keto but using carbs post workout) ? which one hhmmmm you pick


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

> For a 200lb man:
> 
> MEAL #1
> 
> 5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)
> 
> MEAL #2
> 
> How about a can of tuna here instead of shake
> 
> MEAL #3
> 
> "Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)
> 
> MEAL #4
> 
> SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)would keep this as ots after i have trained
> 
> MEAL #5
> 
> "Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar What vinegar is best here as i have got loads of different vinegars in my house like balsamic etc
> 
> MEAL #6
> 
> SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites Or this if i train late!


Could i also change the nuts to either peanuts or pistchio nuts(sp) for with the chicken and if so can anyone tell me how many nuts i should be having?

Also as there are quite a few protein shakes i was thinking about changing the snack 1 protein shake to a can of tuna which has 30g protein but i am 20g's short so can anyone suggest what to go with this again i was thinking about something like nuts etc or would 30g of protein be enough here as i want to put more whole foods in!

Thanks guys and sorry gor the little hijack just that i want to give this diet a go as everyone else seem to be getting good results from it, and i saw it ages ago in a magazine as well tbh as i use to get mens health and it was in there, sems diets like this have been around for sometime its just that now people are using them more and more so they have become more (how can i say) in your face type of thing as they are everywhere that you look!

Not that thats a bad thing as if it works for people then i can only say "Fair Play" thats why i want to give it ago for my self to see if it works for me and my golas.


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> Dred a quick one for you buddy got all my supps for diet that you use, just wondering if a keto would be any good for me really, pretty lean just wanting drop a few % body fat, you recon a keto or a timed carbs (keto but using carbs post workout) ? which one hhmmmm you pick


if you went on it mate you would probably want to do it only for a few weeks if you dont have much to loose...


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Sorry guys another little hijack but i have just found these sites off google as i am trying to work out how many nuts i would need but i think this is a load of BS as its saying tht i need around 60 peanuts with the chicken but this seems a lot as i remember reading that dred was only having about 30 or something like that but again i could be wrong as i was tired when i was readin this thread lol.

the sites i have used is

http://www.thenutfactory.com/kitchen/facts/facts-nutrition.htm

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=what+is+75g+in+oz&meta=

and another which i cant seem to find again lol.

What do you guys think??


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> I remember being very impressed that someone had counted out 39 nuts to put into little packets for portions if that helps!


that was me i only counted them out once and weighed them....

39 peanuts is about 2oz

i used this site... http://ast-ss.com/index.php


----------



## walks

I dont bother with the nuts, i just do the 2 TBS of PB.

Had my cheat last night didnt go mad just added a naan bread to my chicken and had a 2 bags of crisps.

Woke up this morrning and ive been strugling to eat all day. Not had any food cravings at all.

I might go with the cheat meal every 2 weeks.


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> I dont bother with the nuts, i just do the 2 TBS of PB.
> 
> Had my cheat last night didnt go mad just added a naan bread to my chicken and had a 2 bags of crisps.
> 
> Woke up this morrning and ive been strugling to eat all day. Not had any food cravings at all.
> 
> I might go with the cheat meal every 2 weeks.


stick with it mate after my first 2 cheat meals i had trouble eating....but got up this morning after last nights starving hungry.....

i had curry,rice,bombay potatoe and onion bargee........followed by cheese cake.....omg it was great.


----------



## walks

Didnt even want the cheat meal, felt a bit sick afterwards.

Didnt even get close to the 50g of carbs but i could easily of ate a few hundred grams of tandori chicken.

Cardio 2x a day from now on. Need to get about more as well the only times im active is when a go to the gym. Im sat on my **** the rest of the day


----------



## The Bam

Thanks for you help dred, hope you've not been asked this before and I'm just repeating old news but what are you using for your post workout just whey ? If so how much and how many weight days are you having, and are you training intense or are you lifting heavy and cutting the reps ? Cheers bud


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> Thanks for you help dred, hope you've not been asked this before and I'm just repeating old news but what are you using for your post workout just whey ? If so how much and how many weight days are you having, and are you training intense or are you lifting heavy and cutting the reps ? Cheers bud


i train in the evening so post workout is my 6 eggs....

i am training mon,wed,fri and sun....

i was lifting with moderat weight and high reps but with the diet and now using fst-7 the reps are down to 12 and the weight is a bit heavier...

:thumb:


----------



## The Bam

Cheers mate I can only imagine the weights ur hammering out, you beast, so what kind of weights then are you training to failure or 75% ??

Oh and I've herd the Diet blocks you up a bit are you using anything to ease digestion ? All the best mate


----------



## The Bam

Cheers mate I can only imagine the weights ur hammering out, you beast, so what kind of weights then are you training to failure or 75% ??

Oh and I've herd the Diet blocks you up a bit are you using anything to ease digestion ? All the best mate


----------



## beefcakebaggie

Hey Dred, you been getting ridiculous bad breath - I've had threats from the missus, no amount of toothbrushing & gum is curing it. Think I may have to knock it on the head, also, even with the husk I'm still like a friggin rabbit when it comes to dropping the kids off?


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> Cheers mate I can only imagine the weights ur hammering out, you beast, so what kind of weights then are you training to failure or 75% ??
> 
> Oh and I've herd the Diet blocks you up a bit are you using anything to ease digestion ? All the best mate


i thought i would be blocked up a bit but i am using psyllium husk it helps..

everyone has there own ways and opinions,i like to train at about 75% of my max.....

and have now started using the fst-7 method in my workout which give a great pump....


----------



## DRED

beefcakebaggie said:


> Hey Dred, you been getting ridiculous bad breath - I've had threats from the missus, no amount of toothbrushing & gum is curing it. Think I may have to knock it on the head, also, even with the husk I'm still like a friggin rabbit when it comes to dropping the kids off?


that is the downside mate,i rolled over in bed the other night and my mrs got up because my breath made her gag :lol: :lol:

not havin any problems dropping the kids of:lol: :lol:

are you havin any fish oils and evening primrose oil before bed?


----------



## walks

The husk and plenty of water did nothing for me. Only just realised ive not been for 8 days but im getting no pains so when it comes it comes.

Not had the bad breath, but ive had the headaches again today after sayurdays cheat.


----------



## walks

Vince said:


> Sounds like you need to spike your metabolism...sonds it's a bit on the slow side hence didn't fancy cheat meal and felt bloated after.
> 
> Start cardio for 45mins a day...morning session only or 2x30mins a day.


Cheers vince, yep i think ive bo11ocked my metabolism up over the last 18 months by sitting on my ars3 and eating crap.

Ive changed to a 4 day split and im doing cardio after every weight session. The snow blew my attempts at morning cardio today. Still i did my workout, chucked my guts up them carried on with the cardio.

The weight loss is 3 lbs in 3 weeks but im sure ive lost some weight going by the mirror, maybe ive put some muscle on, muscle memory and all that?


----------



## DRED

chest/biceps

incline pec dec 1xwarm up 3x12

flat press machine 3x12

incline press machine 3x12

cable crossovers(top) 3x12

cable crossovers(bottom) fst-7x10

db curls 3x12

v-bar cable curls 3x12

rope cable hammer curls 3x12

db concentration curls 1x12

great pump :cool2:


----------



## Grim_Reaper

don't you use fst-7 for bi's mate??


----------



## DRED

Grim_Reaper said:


> don't you use fst-7 for bi's mate??


normally i would mate but i had such a great pump after one set of concentration curls i never carried on...


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> Pu55y :lol: :lol: :lol:


nice :thumb:


----------



## perryhogan

Very good thread. If you cant do cardio in morning does that affect how much weight you loose?


----------



## DRED

i am glad tomorrow is my cheat day i have been proper fooked the last 2 days,and my shoulders and back are really aching.....


----------



## DRED

not sure wether to have a complete cheat day to recharge myself so to speak....


----------



## SOUTHMAN

stick to one meal dude, youll only feel guilty otherwise. I know how tempting it is though


----------



## walks

Ive had to come off the diet. Got really bad flu and not ate for 2 days.

Going to get some soup down me a shedload of lucazade and some hot flu powders.

on the plus side ive lost 4 lbs in 36 hrs


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Ive had to come off the diet. Got really bad flu and not ate for 2 days.
> 
> Going to get some soup down me a shedload of lucazade and some hot flu powders.
> 
> on the plus side ive lost 4 lbs in 36 hrs


all out to catch the flu then :whistling:


----------



## DRED

back...

close grip pull downs 1xwarm up 3x12 working

seated row with tricep rope 3x12

under hand grip pulldowns 3x12

strait arm pulldowns with tricep rope 3x12

i am going to change my split from a 4 day split to a 5 day split

mon/chest & abs

tue/rest

wed/back & calfs

thur/rest

fri/delts & abs

sat/arms

sun/legs & calfs


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> all out to catch the flu then :whistling:


 

Ill be back on it in a few days.

On the plus side i dont feel like eating anything so theres not much chance of ruining the work ive put in


----------



## SOUTHMAN

what results you seeing in the mirror dred?


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> what results you seeing in the mirror dred?


my waist is coming in mate,also seeing some definition on my legs...

another week and i will do some more pictures...


----------



## SOUTHMAN

yeah ive noticed waist (love handles) reducing and actually chest.

Cant wait untill i can sit down and theres no fat rolls or ****!


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> You are doing well there Dred, looking forward to seeing your new pictures. I would stick to the one cheat meal, rather than the full day, but have whatever you want for that meal.


cheers gg....... on the day of my cheat meal at breakfast i have been adding some sausage meat from the butchers and some plastic cheese...

but i am only gonna have the one cheat meal tonight and not the full day.

weighed myself this morning and after putting on 3ib last week and goin up to 16.10ib...this morning weighed in at 16.4ib.

pretty happy about that as i still have not started cardio :beer:


----------



## DRED

still not using any juice at the moment,since about november....

not really sure what to do....i was thinking about doin 4 weeks on 4 weeks of with some fast acting stuff for a while....

guys?


----------



## hilly

personally while dieting i would run a low dose tet all the way thru. reason is that those 4 weeks you are off it will be like a pct and i have always thought the last thing you want to do during pct is diet as test levels will be very low and you risk loosing muscle.

test e/ sust or someting similar for the duration would be and is what im doing. i have added some tren in however


----------



## DRED

ok monday will be the start of the 6th week,how many weeks should this diet run for?


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> ok monday will be the start of the 6th week,how many weeks should this diet run for?


Ive heard Dave say up to 16 weeks

Personally ill be switching after 12 weeks and going with a low carb and high intensity cardio diet if i still have a little way to go.


----------



## LittleChris

Vince, what are you thoughts on pro/veg days.

Had 3 last week (Mon-Wed) and felt flat on them. Sure they kept things ticking over.

Would a fat/Pro day alternated with a Pro/Veg day be somewhat counter-intuitive (fat stores lasting for a few days so alternating wouldn't be as effective as a few Pro/Veg days in a row)

Your thoughts?

Have two more weeks to run and would like to remove the last bit of stubborn fat. Have the serratus in the right light, but want more off ideally.

What do you suggest mate?


----------



## DRED

i dont think i have got over my last lot of gear yet,i was doin 100mg of oral winni a day and 500 mg of tren a per week..

you have heard the saying you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink...same thing in the bedroom department for the last 10 weeks...

did rohm pct but still nothing....


----------



## LittleChris

Proviron helps with the libido I find.

Mind you, people do suggest running a Test base with Fina due to its suppresive nature. Ciallis/viagra?


----------



## DRED

LittleChris said:


> Proviron helps with the libido I find.
> 
> Mind you, people do suggest running a Test base with Fina due to its suppresive nature. Ciallis/viagra?


it might have to be ciallis....

i have zero sex drive,not even **** proud in the morning....

i might even run another month of rohm pct :confused1:


----------



## DRED

delts/tri.s

db side laterals 1xwarm up 3x12

seated db rear laterals 3x12

machine press 3x12

crusifix cable rear delts fst-7 x 10

tri,s

v,bar press downs 1xwarm up 3x12

rope press downs 3x12

dip machine 3x12

reverse grip press downs fst-7 x 10


----------



## MissBC

I started this on monday just gone and my body seems to be responding really well to it!! lifting heavier in the gym, feeling awesome even and full of energy, even after stopping my ECA and im never really hungry!! Skin is looking better, getting tighter and leaning out nicely!!

think i am on to a winner with this one!!


----------



## SOUTHMAN

my weights went down! lol and im pretty tired most of the time!

I had several comments on the skin looking better thing. I dont know if this is the diet or the edition of evening primrose oil??


----------



## DRED

MissBC said:


> I started this on monday just gone and my body seems to be responding really well to it!! lifting heavier in the gym, feeling awesome even and full of energy, even after stopping my ECA and im never really hungry!! Skin is looking better, getting tighter and leaning out nicely!!
> 
> think i am on to a winner with this one!!


it is so easy to follow...i have done no cardio,my abs are starting to show OMG aint seen those babies for years....

good luck with yours :thumb:


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> my weights went down! lol and im pretty tired most of the time!
> 
> I had several comments on the skin looking better thing. I dont know if this is the diet or the edition of evening primrose oil??


probably the evening primrose oil....


----------



## MissBC

DRED said:


> it is so easy to follow...i have done no cardio,my abs are starting to show OMG aint seen those babies for years....
> 
> good luck with yours :thumb:


yea me too, my abs are def making an apparence and even my legs, the hardest place for me (and wimmin usually) are starting to cut up nicely!!

its so easy to follow, takes me half the time to buy, cook and prepare food and i actually ENJOY every single one of my meals insterad of dreading them like i did on low carb cause they were just so boring!!

2 hours of low intensity cardio (one fasted one pm) and 4 weight training sessions a week

I love it!! and cant wait to see how it all goes!!

had the typical tounge being coated slightly, (no bad breath thank god), my pee is showing ketosis on pee sticks but does vary from time to time and i know they arent accurate!! Im energetic and stronger and the fat is going and im feeling tighter all over:bounce: :bounce: cant ask for anything more


----------



## DRED

MissBC said:


> yea me too, my abs are def making an apparence and even my legs, the hardest place for me (and wimmin usually) are starting to cut up nicely!!
> 
> its so easy to follow, takes me half the time to buy, cook and prepare food and i actually ENJOY every single one of my meals insterad of dreading them like i did on low carb cause they were just so boring!!
> 
> 2 hours of low intensity cardio (one fasted one pm) and 4 weight training sessions a week
> 
> I love it!! and cant wait to see how it all goes!!
> 
> had the typical tounge being coated slightly, (no bad breath thank god), my pee is showing ketosis on pee sticks but does vary from time to time and i know they arent accurate!! Im energetic and stronger and the fat is going and im feeling tighter all over:bounce: :bounce: cant ask for anything more


happy days :thumb:


----------



## SOUTHMAN

MissBC said:


> yea me too, my abs are def making an apparence and even my legs, the hardest place for me (and wimmin usually) are starting to cut up nicely!!
> 
> its so easy to follow, takes me half the time to buy, cook and prepare food and i actually ENJOY every single one of my meals insterad of dreading them like i did on low carb cause they were just so boring!!
> 
> 2 hours of low intensity cardio (one fasted one pm) and 4 weight training sessions a week
> 
> I love it!! and cant wait to see how it all goes!!
> 
> had the typical tounge being coated slightly, (no bad breath thank god), my pee is showing ketosis on pee sticks but does vary from time to time and i know they arent accurate!! Im energetic and stronger and the fat is going and im feeling tighter all over:bounce: :bounce: cant ask for anything more


Did you start cardio at that amount from day one? im doing just 20 mins in the morning and loosing well. I will be doing 2 hour sessions a day but much further on into the diet when the weight loss slows down.


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> it is so easy to follow...i have done no cardio,my abs are starting to show OMG aint seen those babies for years....
> 
> good luck with yours :thumb:


lucky barst

Ill be very luck to get down to 15% without alot of cardio.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

out of interest dred what was your diet like before going on this


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> out of interest dred what was your diet like before going on this


pretty **** poor really......

no breakfast....

sandwich,s crisps that sort of rubbish for lunch....

dinner far to much....

now the diet has set times and it might be boring but i have the same thing everyday except for my cheat....


----------



## SOUTHMAN

probably why your seeing such fast results dude.

My diet was clean before this so progress is a bit slower then yours....plus i have less muscle mass to burn those cals lol


----------



## The Bam

Now then dred nice to see the diets workin well, tried the fst-training method you recomended, brilliant it should be called the fuc*in pump ! It's nuts


----------



## walks

Whats the plans for when you come off this diet dreed?

Im going back on this diet in the morning, got over my flu and my wieghts back up to where i was was before starting the diet

Although i have lost 2" off the waist since i started


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Whats the plans for when you come off this diet dreed?
> 
> Im going back on this diet in the morning, got over my flu and my wieghts back up to where i was was before starting the diet
> 
> Although i have lost 2" off the waist since i started


Vince said he stayed on this diet for 20 weeks......so got some time..

i have not been on the juice since november so i am going to start back on the meds in the next couple of weeks...


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> Vince said he stayed on this diet for 20 weeks......so got some time..
> 
> i have not been on the juice since november so i am going to start back on the meds in the next couple of weeks...


test, t3 winni would make for some nice before and after pics:whistling:


----------



## MissBC

babe what do your pro/vege days look like in terms of your meals!! ???


----------



## MissBC

Greekgoddess said:


> Typical day on protein/veggies
> 
> I try to vary my diet as much as I can within the limits of dieting
> 
> Breakfast :3 whole egg omlette with spinach(sometimes add a little feta for flavour) isnt the egg yolk and feta fat?????
> 
> Workout at gym
> 
> Protein shake (whey isolate/water ) pwo
> 
> Lunch :chicken with large mixed salad
> 
> Snack:Cottage cheese/shellfish/smoked salmon/celery sticks/rocket leaves is salmon cool on the protein vege days? there is alot of fats (all be it good fats) but doesnt that defeat the purpose of pro/veg
> 
> Dinner:fish with green beans/broccoli/or cauliflower
> 
> Snackrotein shake before bed with lean meat if I feel hungry or boiled eggs whole eggs???
> 
> Fish oil caps
> 
> Zinc
> 
> Magnesium
> 
> Sometimes I take DL phenylalanine if I have bad doms or sore joints. Its derived from an amino acid and helps with pain. It also suppresses appetite and makes you feel good.


----------



## hackskii

When the carbs are low the energy needs to come from fat.

Keeping the fats in there keeps you in ketosis, and some good fat us burned for fuel.

I know this is the Dave Polumbo diet but the Atkins is one of the more original keto diets and his diet was simple, 30 grams of carbs max a day or less, and all the fats and protein you want.

the idea is to stay in ketosis for a time, then do glycogen repleneshments with a cheat day or a cheat meal or two.

Keeps cortisol at bay and keeps the thyroid humming along too.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi to everyone on the diet, just started it today,i have a question for vince that was asked a few posts back, but just want to make sure i get it right, i know roasted peanuts are not allowed but are we aloud salted peanuts,thats it thanks.

Hi Dred hope the diet is still going fine for you.


----------



## MissBC

hackskii said:


> When the carbs are low the energy needs to come from fat.
> 
> Keeping the fats in there keeps you in ketosis, and some good fat us burned for fuel.
> 
> I know this is the Dave Polumbo diet but the Atkins is one of the more original keto diets and his diet was simple, 30 grams of carbs max a day or less, and all the fats and protein you want.
> 
> the idea is to stay in ketosis for a time, then do glycogen repleneshments with a cheat day or a cheat meal or two.
> 
> Keeps cortisol at bay and keeps the thyroid humming along too.


Yea hak that is def right but for women dave suggests 2 protein/fat days and then one protein/vege day to strip the fat!!

this is what his SUGGESTED diet plan is like for a female, in the sense of more of a comp prep diet!

WOMEN'S DIET:Alternate 1 day on DIET #1..... 2 days on DIET #2..repeat

DIET #1

MEAL #1/ 12 egg whites

MEAL #2 / Whey protein

MEAL #3/ 6oz chicken with 1-cup asparagus or green beans

MEAL #4/ 6oz white fish (fluke, flounder, sole, ect.) with a green salad with vinegar & mustard (no olive or macadamia nut oil)

MEAL #5 Whey protein or 12 egg whites

DIET #2MEAL

#1/ 2 whole (OMEGA-3) Eggs with 6 egg whites

MEAL #2/ 35g Whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter

MEAL #3/ 6oz chicken with 1/4-cup (1oz) cashew nuts, or almonds, or walnuts (vary it)

MEAL #4/ 6oz salmon, swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, red peppers, or carrots) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Mac Nut Oil and vinegar

MEAL #5 / 35g Whey with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 2 whole (OMEGA-3) EGGS with 6 whites<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>


----------



## hackskii

I dont know, I guess I dont get it, since protein is by far hands down the most innefficient of all fuel sources, so you probably will go out of ketosis, and you are not eating carbs so glycogen replenishment is out of the question too..

It doesnt make sense to me, sorry.

I dont really fallow the DP diet too much, they are all the same for the most part.

I know women dont get the results men do on keto diets.

Anyone got any thoughts on the high protein, low fat, and low carb meal for the girls?


----------



## MissBC

how does a 200-300g carb meal (or hour or 2) once a week not throw you out, thats what i dont quite get!!


----------



## hackskii

Vince said:


> It doesn't make sense cos those are only bits taken out of context!
> 
> First get into ketosis.
> 
> Then manipulating with non-fat days.
> 
> Once in ketosis a few pro/veg days back to back won't throw you out.


Ok, I got you, but non fat days you wont be in ketosis.

Is this what is recommended?

If it is recommended then can you please explain why this is?

If ketosis is what is desired and too much protein and less fat is desired, can you explain to me how this is of desire?


----------



## walks

Would you drop the steak/fish on a pro/veg day then and go with chicken insted?


----------



## Kezz

if for instance it took you 3 days to get into ketosis and your body has decided to use fat for fuel, would it then take 3 days to get out of it when you start eating carbs again??


----------



## invisiblekid

This is something I'm questioning too.

After my cheat meal (Saturday night) which usually consists of 75-100g rice, 3 x wholemeal wraps and chicken (all consumed within 30-45ming) I get shocking headaches within an hour or two then the same on say Monday/Tuesday.

Am I basically getting kicked out of Ketosis and heading back in on the Monday/Tuesday? I also noticed after my first cheat meal, which was 2 week in, my breath and taste in my mouth went back to normal and hasn't actually returned to the putrid stench that Ketosis usually brings.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

i find when i have a cheat meal the following morning im woken up with stomach cramps.

Ive only had pizza as cheats so fat so i dont know if its something to do with cheese or wheat.

Im going to have a kfc next sunday to see if this helps


----------



## Kezz

when i cheated i had 1000g of high gi carbs and low fat, i didnt get any headaches or stomach ache, but did get some awesome pumps the day after in the gym!!


----------



## Kezz

Thanks mate


----------



## invisiblekid

Cheers Vince.

I don't train Sundays so I'm eating before a non-training day anyway.

Any reason you can see for the headaches early in the week after? Is this likely to coinside with depletion of glycogen?


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Here's an article from T-Nation by Thibs, interesting reading re getting back into ketosis after a refeed...

Drug-using bodybuilders who diet down using an ''anabolic diet type'' diet (5-6 days low carbs / 1-2 days carb-up) have been using a dirty and dangerous trick to quickly bonk themselves into ketosis. Ketosis is a state where your body produces ketones, an indication your body has switched to a fat-adapted metabolism (using primarily fat for fuel).

The faster you can get in ketosis, the more effective the low-carb diet becomes. A low-carb diet is also much easier physiologically and psychologically when you're in ketosis. Why? Because the brain can only use carbs and ketones for fuel. When you go low carbs but aren't yet in ketosis, your brain will crave carbs for energy and you get sugar cravings. When ketones are being produced, the brain will use them instead and you won't crave carbs as much.

After a normal carb-up, it takes 2-3 days of low-carbs dieting/training to get back in ketosis. This only leaves 2-3 days per week of maximal and comfortable fat loss. (Note that you'll still lose fat during the first 2-3 days in which ketosis isn't yet established.)

Some bodybuilders have been using insulin to get into ketosis faster. Insulin drives blood glucose into the muscles and reduces the mobilization of glycogen for fuel. As a result, your blood sugar goes down and the body switches to a ketogenic state much faster.

So instead of taking 2-3 days to get into ketosis, it takes them a 1/2 day. They use the insulin (low doses, around 3IU, of Humalog, the fastest acting insulin) every 2 hours in the evening while consuming only protein and some fats. This obviously leads to very low blood sugar (which is why it's very dangerous) and by next morning they're already in ketosis.

As I mentioned, don't try this on your own. Using insulin is already dangerous as it is, but it's even more so when you're not ingesting carbs! It could lead to hypoglycemia, diabetic coma, or even death!

A safer (and legal) way to accomplish the same thing is to use Leucine for the same purpose as insulin. Leucine is a ketogenic amino acid. It leads to a large (but within your own natural limits) insulin spike. If you don't consume any carbs 1 hour prior and up to 2 hours after ingesting leucine, your blood glucose will lower significantly, helping you reach ketosis faster.

You can do this on your carb-up day, which would look like this:

Morning (1-2 meals): carbs from fruit to fill liver glycogen first

Between 11 am and 2 pm (2 meals): carbs from starchy sources (rice, yams, potatoes, etc.)

Mid-afternoon meal (around 3-4 pm): last carb meal of the day... high glycemic carbs

And from 4 pm you only have protein and fat along with ingesting 5-10g of leucine every 2 hours (5 pm, 7 pm, 9 pm, 11 pm for example). The key is no carbs after 3-4 pm.

This will help you get into ketosis much faster and it will be both easier and more effective to diet down while in a low carb state.


----------



## Miller

Iv done this diet twice, both with cracking results, first time I had gone from 16st11 to 15st3 and plateaud big time, so I went on this and went down to 14st7 in about 3 weeks, I was just testing its affectiveness

then I did it before a holiday and went from 15st to 14st4 in 3 weeks

Im about to go on it for around 6 weeks starting monday

I was just wondering what people where having as veg with their evening meal? Iv had birdseye bags of steamed veg like brocolli, cauli, carrots, peas and green beans and have been alright but reaidng things, this might be all wrong...?


----------



## invisiblekid

Miller said:


> Iv done this diet twice, both with cracking results, first time I had gone from 16st11 to 15st3 and plateaud big time, so I went on this and went down to 14st7 in about 3 weeks, I was just testing its affectiveness
> 
> then I did it before a holiday and went from 15st to 14st4 in 3 weeks
> 
> Im about to go on it for around 6 weeks starting monday
> 
> I was just wondering what people where having as veg with their evening meal? Iv had birdseye bags of steamed veg like brocolli, cauli, carrots, peas and green beans and have been alright but reaidng things, this might be all wrong...?


I'd certainly drop peas & carrots


----------



## hilly

my cheat meal certainly kicks me out of ketosis as far as the ketosticks are concerned but im usually back in it by the tuesday. If and when i start to introduce protein veg days i will also be moving a refeed/cheat meal to once every 10 days and give this way a try giving me longer in ketosis.


----------



## Miller

invisiblekid said:


> I'd certainly drop peas & carrots


 so are green beans completely fine?

I think I'll start smashing these in a bit more if so


----------



## POPPA BEAR

For anyone wanting to hit ketosis a little faster it's also deffo worth researching Alpha Lipoic Acid, i've used it this weekend and gone back into ketosis in less than 24hours !!


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Miller said:


> so are green beans completely fine?
> 
> I think I'll start smashing these in a bit more if so


Green beans, Spinach, Broc/cauli... :thumb:


----------



## walks

POPPA BEAR said:


> Here's an article from T-Nation by Thibs, interesting reading re getting back into ketosis after a refeed...
> 
> Drug-using bodybuilders who diet down using an ''anabolic diet type'' diet (5-6 days low carbs / 1-2 days carb-up) have been using a dirty and dangerous trick to quickly bonk themselves into ketosis. Ketosis is a state where your body produces ketones, an indication your body has switched to a fat-adapted metabolism (using primarily fat for fuel).
> 
> The faster you can get in ketosis, the more effective the low-carb diet becomes. A low-carb diet is also much easier physiologically and psychologically when you're in ketosis. Why? Because the brain can only use carbs and ketones for fuel. When you go low carbs but aren't yet in ketosis, your brain will crave carbs for energy and you get sugar cravings. When ketones are being produced, the brain will use them instead and you won't crave carbs as much.
> 
> After a normal carb-up, it takes 2-3 days of low-carbs dieting/training to get back in ketosis. This only leaves 2-3 days per week of maximal and comfortable fat loss. (Note that you'll still lose fat during the first 2-3 days in which ketosis isn't yet established.)
> 
> Some bodybuilders have been using insulin to get into ketosis faster. Insulin drives blood glucose into the muscles and reduces the mobilization of glycogen for fuel. As a result, your blood sugar goes down and the body switches to a ketogenic state much faster.
> 
> So instead of taking 2-3 days to get into ketosis, it takes them a 1/2 day. They use the insulin (low doses, around 3IU, of Humalog, the fastest acting insulin) every 2 hours in the evening while consuming only protein and some fats. This obviously leads to very low blood sugar (which is why it's very dangerous) and by next morning they're already in ketosis.
> 
> As I mentioned, don't try this on your own. Using insulin is already dangerous as it is, but it's even more so when you're not ingesting carbs! It could lead to hypoglycemia, diabetic coma, or even death!
> 
> A safer (and legal) way to accomplish the same thing is to use Leucine for the same purpose as insulin. Leucine is a ketogenic amino acid. It leads to a large (but within your own natural limits) insulin spike. If you don't consume any carbs 1 hour prior and up to 2 hours after ingesting leucine, your blood glucose will lower significantly, helping you reach ketosis faster.
> 
> You can do this on your carb-up day, which would look like this:
> 
> Morning (1-2 meals): carbs from fruit to fill liver glycogen first
> 
> Between 11 am and 2 pm (2 meals): carbs from starchy sources (rice, yams, potatoes, etc.)
> 
> Mid-afternoon meal (around 3-4 pm): last carb meal of the day... high glycemic carbs
> 
> And from 4 pm you only have protein and fat along with ingesting 5-10g of leucine every 2 hours (5 pm, 7 pm, 9 pm, 11 pm for example). The key is no carbs after 3-4 pm.
> 
> This will help you get into ketosis much faster and it will be both easier and more effective to diet down while in a low carb state.


Nice artical but not really relevent to this diet.

People just remember that this is daves version of a keto diet and is quite diffrent to the others keto diets with carb reloads.

Personaly im going for the cheat meal every 10 days. i just feel that just as the fat is starting to move im back on a cheat day.

Also dont bother with the scales, ive only lost 3lbs in 4 weeks but it looks alot more going by the mirror


----------



## invisiblekid

walks said:


> Nice artical but not really relevent to this diet.
> 
> People just remember that this is daves version of a keto diet and is quite diffrent to the others keto diets with carb reloads.
> 
> Personaly im going for the cheat meal every 10 days. i just feel that just as the fat is starting to move im back on a cheat day.
> 
> Also dont bother with the scales, ive only lost 3lbs in 4 weeks but it looks alot more going by the mirror


I agree with the mirror part. I've lost 5kg so far but plateued at 89kg after 5 weeks. However, I'm visably leaner and more vascular esp after a nice refeed.


----------



## The Bam

allright Dred me again to pester you, just wondering if your allowing any carbs at all I started sunday night not sure if my diets right.

its exactly the same as your part form im having 4 eggs instead of 6 for both morning and night using all the same supps to so fingers crossed its right.

few questions can you have the eggs in an omlette ? if so can you put some ham in or something ?

and can you have any sauces with any of your food like ketchup ?

Last one now, are you using clen or t3 with your diet ?

thanks loads mate


----------



## walks

invisiblekid said:


> I agree with the mirror part. I've lost 5kg so far but plateued at 89kg after 5 weeks. However, I'm visably leaner and more vascular esp after a nice refeed.


Yep and all my loss was in the first week.

All you need is a tape measure and a mirror. Ive dropped 3 lbs but over 2" off the waist.

I must add though that before this id only been back training for about a month so its possible that i could be putting some muscle on, after not training for 18months


----------



## walks

The Bam said:


> allright Dred me again to pester you, just wondering if your allowing any carbs at all I started sunday night not sure if my diets right.
> 
> its exactly the same as your part form im having 4 eggs instead of 6 for both morning and night using all the same supps to so fingers crossed its right.
> 
> few questions can you have the eggs in an omlette ? if so can you put some ham in or something ? yes, add ham or some kind of protien to makeup for not having the whites
> 
> and can you have any sauces with any of your food like ketchup ? most are full of sugar or carbs so try to avoid
> 
> Last one now, are you using clen or t3 with your diet ? unless your on test i would swerve the T3 if you wish to hold on to muscle
> 
> thanks loads mate


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> allright Dred me again to pester you, just wondering if your allowing any carbs at all I started sunday night not sure if my diets right.
> 
> its exactly the same as your part form im having 4 eggs instead of 6 for both morning and night using all the same supps to so fingers crossed its right.
> 
> few questions can you have the eggs in an omlette ? if so can you put some ham in or something ?
> 
> and can you have any sauces with any of your food like ketchup ?
> 
> Last one now, are you using clen or t3 with your diet ?
> 
> thanks loads mate


i have my eggs in an omlette mate with some bacon....

not sure about the sauce mate you better read the lable....think there is sugar in some :confused1:

not using clen or t3 i think if you loose weight to quick its gonna be hard earned muscle aswell....

:thumb:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

walks said:


> Nice artical but not really relevent to this diet.
> 
> People just remember that this is daves version of a keto diet and is quite diffrent to the others keto diets with carb reloads.
> 
> Personaly im going for the cheat meal every 10 days. i just feel that just as the fat is starting to move im back on a cheat day.
> 
> Also dont bother with the scales, ive only lost 3lbs in 4 weeks but it looks alot more going by the mirror


Mate when you have your pizza or whatever and get dumped out of ketosis, using Leucine, ala or other supps can help you get back into Ketosis, and rather than it taking you 3 days you can be back in within 24 hours, this is actually quite relevant to any keto diet imo


----------



## The Bam

thanks loads mate

you havent found any food lists for the keto diet on yor browsing have you ?

it would be 10x easyer if there was an f-in list ha.

what the body fat dropped to now mate ? all the best


----------



## DRED

The Bam said:


> thanks loads mate
> 
> you havent found any food lists for the keto diet on yor browsing have you ?
> 
> it would be 10x easyer if there was an f-in list ha.
> 
> what the body fat dropped to now mate ? all the best


not sure about the body fat mate,not had it checked.....

not seen a list for keto foods but its worth a look.....


----------



## hackskii

Kezz said:


> if for instance it took you 3 days to get into ketosis and your body has decided to use fat for fuel, would it then take 3 days to get out of it when you start eating carbs again??


No, you can bump out of ketosis in just one meal.



POPPA BEAR said:


> For anyone wanting to hit ketosis a little faster it's also deffo worth researching Alpha Lipoic Acid, i've used it this weekend and gone back into ketosis in less than 24hours !!


I noticed on a keto diet, when you get into ketosis the more you do it the faster it seems to slip into ketosis.

Ever wonder why when you first do a keto diet it can take 3 to 5 days to get into ketosis?

Next time you do a keto diet take notice of how fast you can go into ketosis if you have done a keto diet before, it is just a couple of days I have noticed.

Once in ketosis, I would think you would need the fats in there to stay that way, then in a defecit the fat would be burned off of the body as fats are the primary fuel source.

I still dont get the vege protein low fat deal, I would bet money you would either slip out of ketosis, or turn the body to burn protein for fuel after conversion, both in my opinion may not be the best for the diet, the object is to get into ketosis, make the body burn fat for fuels, have a slight defecit, then a refeed to replenish glycogen stores so we can train with some intensity.

Intensity forces the body to have an adaptive responce.

I dont see how using high protein, low carb, low fats would not change the body to switch over to burning fats to converted fuel from protein.

If this was the case then a defecit would be muscle as that is protein.


----------



## walks

POPPA BEAR said:


> Mate when you have your pizza or whatever and get dumped out of ketosis, using Leucine, ala or other supps can help you get back into Ketosis, and rather than it taking you 3 days you can be back in within 24 hours, this is actually quite relevant to any keto diet imo


Not sure exactly but dave doesn't recommend some supplements on his diet. ALA being one i think.

Remember this isn't a true keto diet like Atkins or the anabolic diet due to the amount of protein.

Dave says himself this is a different take on the keto diet.

I think we are over complicating things here, the diet is very simple and hes said many times there is no need for any extra supplements or to start messing with cheat meals and having a daily carb loads. once you start changing things and adding things then its no longer the palumbo diet.


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Not sure exactly but dave doesn't recommend some supplements on his diet. ALA being one i think.
> 
> Remember this isn't a true keto diet like Atkins or the anabolic diet due to the amount of protein.
> 
> Dave says himself this is a different take on the keto diet.
> 
> I think we are over complicating things here, the diet is very simple and hes said many times there is no need for any extra supplements or to start messing with cheat meals and having a daily carb loads. once you start changing things and adding things then its no longer the palumbo diet.


agreed :beer:

give the diet a chance before changing things and if the fats not coming of fast enough try some cardio first... :thumb:


----------



## POPPA BEAR

Hacks i agree, i'm thinking that the pro veg days are a way of getting your body to use bodyfat instead of dietary fat before you drop out of ketosis (not convinced it would work though).

Re my comment on ala.... The amount of [email protected] i've eaten this past weekend would usually take at least 2 days to get back in (from my experience anyway), sunday evening i went back to high fat/low carb and added ala.... Monday afternoon i'm testing positive, now some of the guys on u.s. forums are taking up to 4g a day and staying in ketosis even when eating in excess of 100g carbs a day...

I just wanted to see if it would help with the transition, it did. :thumb:


----------



## walks

hackskii said:


> No, you can bump out of ketosis in just one meal.
> 
> I noticed on a keto diet, when you get into ketosis the more you do it the faster it seems to slip into ketosis.
> 
> Ever wonder why when you first do a keto diet it can take 3 to 5 days to get into ketosis?
> 
> Next time you do a keto diet take notice of how fast you can go into ketosis if you have done a keto diet before, it is just a couple of days I have noticed.
> 
> Once in ketosis, I would think you would need the fats in there to stay that way, then in a defecit the fat would be burned off of the body as fats are the primary fuel source.
> 
> I still dont get the vege protein low fat deal, I would bet money you would either slip out of ketosis, or turn the body to burn protein for fuel after conversion, both in my opinion may not be the best for the diet, the object is to get into ketosis, make the body burn fat for fuels, have a slight defecit, then a refeed to replenish glycogen stores so we can train with some intensity.
> 
> Intensity forces the body to have an adaptive responce.
> 
> I dont see how using high protein, low carb, low fats would not change the body to switch over to burning fats to converted fuel from protein.
> 
> If this was the case then a defecit would be muscle as that is protein.


This is the only thing ive found regarding the pro/veg days. The oringinal thread is gone forever

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

I will ask dave in his New thread for more detail


----------



## walks

POPPA BEAR said:


> Hacks i agree, i'm thinking that the pro veg days are a way of getting your body to use bodyfat instead of dietary fat before you drop out of ketosis (not convinced it would work though).
> 
> Re my comment on ala.... The amount of [email protected] i've eaten this past weekend would usually take at least 2 days to get back in (from my experience anyway), sunday evening i went back to high fat/low carb and added ala.... Monday afternoon i'm testing positive, now some of the guys on u.s. forums are taking up to 4g a day and staying in ketosis even when eating in excess of 100g carbs a day...
> 
> I just wanted to see if it would help with the transition, it did. :thumb:


Interesting. But i thought the point of the carb meal was to get out of ketosis so that the tyroid would fire up.

If your not coming out of ketosis then will that affect thyroid production?


----------



## hackskii

walks said:


> This is the only thing ive found regarding the pro/veg days. The oringinal thread is gone forever
> 
> Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).
> 
> I will ask dave in his New thread for more detail


This cold be tested to some degree using keto sticks on a protein, vegetable day or two.

Can someone do the keto sick on the vege day for me and let me know?

This would suggest the amount of fat is there for fuel or not.

If you stay in ketosis on that then I would be impressed and amazed, but right now, I am very skepticle.

Who was that one dude that used to take branch chain amino acids (BCAA'S)and water for one day and lose some fat then go back to eating?


----------



## POPPA BEAR

walks said:


> Interesting. But i thought the point of the carb meal was to get out of ketosis so that the tyroid would fire up.
> 
> If your not coming out of ketosis then will that affect thyroid production?


Yes mate i'm just using it to get back into keto (rather than every day) after a cheat meal, so you do come out when you eat the carbs and rev up your thyroid, but by hitting ketosis a day or so faster in theory you get an extra day of using fat as energy...


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi to everyone on the diet, just started it today,i have a question for vince that was asked a few posts back, but just want to make sure i get it right, i know roasted peanuts are not allowed but are we aloud salted peanuts,thats it thanks.

Hi Dred hope the diet is still going fine for you. this is second time i have posted this question, so hopefully someone can answer it this time, i am on this diet also, i am sure you guys got some help from time to time, throw us a freekin bone here eh, just want to do it right, been on it from sun 8th of feb, so just want help with this question it's not like i am asking for a freekin diet sheet lol.thanks.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi to everyone on the diet, just started it today,i have a question for vince that was asked a few posts back, but just want to make sure i get it right, i know roasted peanuts are not allowed but are we aloud salted peanuts,thats it thanks.
> 
> Hi Dred hope the diet is still going fine for you. this is second time i have posted this question, so hopefully someone can answer it this time, i am on this diet also, i am sure you guys got some help from time to time, throw us a freekin bone here eh, just want to do it right, been on it from sun 8th of feb, so just want help with this question it's not like i am asking for a freekin diet sheet lol.thanks.


i cant answer all but the salted peanuts are fine,,,,

when i started the diet i added no salt to my diet,so even though i was drinking 5ltrs of water a day i was dehydrated due to no carbs...

the salt helps you absorb fluids...


----------



## hackskii

Why would roasted peanuts not be allowed?

Use macadamia nuts, they are the highest in fats and lowest in carbs.


----------



## DRED

i have been eating roasted nuts


----------



## gibbsy07

thanks mate thats all i wanted to know,how is your diet going so far? i've been on it from sun to be honest i don't feel any different but i do have more energy lol,but just waiting on the big dip, i just wanted to be sure about the salted peanuts thing ,cause i thought holding on to water would be a bad thing on this diet, i am just a novice about this diet so i am just pretty much learning as i go lol,but i have been following your thread and you are doing well so well done to you,thanks.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi, for the experts how long before carbs are totaly depleated,no carbs since sun the 8th feb,10pm, till now just veggies for carbs,thanks.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> thanks mate thats all i wanted to know,how is your diet going so far? i've been on it from sun to be honest i don't feel any different but i do have more energy lol,but just waiting on the big dip, i just wanted to be sure about the salted peanuts thing ,cause i thought holding on to water would be a bad thing on this diet, i am just a novice about this diet so i am just pretty much learning as i go lol,but i have been following your thread and you are doing well so well done to you,thanks.


to be honest i dont feel any different on this diet,dont feel hungry either.

good luck with your diet mate :beer:


----------



## walks

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi, for the experts how long before carbs are totaly depleated,no carbs since sun the 8th feb,10pm, till now just veggies for carbs,thanks.


Did you start the diet on the 8th?

If so you shouldn't be doing pro/veg days that soon.

veg isn't used as a replacement for carbs, fat is.

Veg is used to replace fat towards the end when all avenues have been used (ie, maxed out cardio and cheat meal dropped)

as for depletion, when starting it can take up to 5 days to hit ketosis. Thats why your first cheat meal is after 14 days


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi walks no not doing pro veg , just having veg as a side helping for roughage, this is what i had today just to give you a better idea, would like your opinion thanks.

meal 1) 3 raw eggs, 3 raw egg whites,1 fish capsule

meal 2)protein shake,two scoops,around 38g, peanut butter 1 tablespoon.fish capsule

meal 3) chicken breast 1 and 1/4 fillets,sprinkle of cheese, hellmans,and salad leaves,fish capsule

meal 4 two pork medalions,prob around 45g p sprinkle of cheese, brochlie about a cup,and a couple of peices of colliflower, hellmans mayonaise.

meal 5) protein shake, same as above,fish capsule

meal 6 a can of sardines hellmans mayonaise,some spinach n brochlie

what do you think mate do you think i am over doing it on the veggies, and do you think i need more fat in there

oh yes sups,mv,gla capsules simalar to epo,from my protein,and ph

i no i need about 41g p and 14g f so i am trying to get these equall amounts over each of my six meals, what do you think thanks


----------



## hackskii

Thanks Vince for that info, I am glad you kept in ketosis and varified this with the keto sticks, very nice.

I bet at that point much fat would melt off rather quickly.

I bet at some point you would go catabolic.

Many of the guys that I see go into contests look depleted as hell, and one of my buddies, only ate tuna and broccoli, he looked so depleted and catabolic I was like what happened to this dudes muscle.

He had no refeed days and thought that if he ate just that he would do well.

I dont know why but of the 5 guys that compete in one gym I go to, every single one looked depleted and bad.


----------



## walks

hackskii said:


> Thanks Vince for that info, I am glad you kept in ketosis and varified this with the keto sticks, very nice.
> 
> I bet at that point much fat would melt off rather quickly.
> 
> I bet at some point you would go catabolic.
> 
> Many of the guys that I see go into contests look depleted as hell, and one of my buddies, only ate tuna and broccoli, he looked so depleted and catabolic I was like what happened to this dudes muscle.
> 
> He had no refeed days and thought that if he ate just that he would do well.
> 
> I dont know why but of the 5 guys that compete in one gym I go to, every single one looked depleted and bad.


Ive heard daves say the reason for this is beacause many dont know how to reload for the show in the week before.

I have no idea what daves protocal is for the reload, im sure he keeps that for his paying customers, but i have heard people mention using fat to fill out


----------



## hackskii

Good stuff and it made the top 10 for a reason, this is good sh!t here... 

Remember iron sharpens iron like one man sharpens another.

This thread has alot of information, and results from guys doing it, it will pass top 10 here shortly.


----------



## hilly

Scott personally from speaking to lads who are just starting to compete this last year or 2 they become very scared of carbs.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi walks i think it is enough protein, it's my fault i should have told you what weight i am, i am only 165lb, not as big as the guys on here but i just went with the premise of what polumbo said, i x my weight 165lbs by 1.5g of protein and 0.5g of fat and just took it from there i no this is for the 250lb man diet but there isn't one for my weight so i just thought i could get some tips from the more experienced guys on here, next time i post my diet i will be more precise thanks.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi vince, thanks for that, sorry mate but i'm not getting you on the whey, it is pure powdered whey that i have from my protein, what kind of protein are you meaning when you say actual protein, and what is a tbsp of EVOO, i no you no your stuff mate but why no vegies also, just for roughage cause i don't want to get backed up lol thanks.


----------



## walks

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi walks i think it is enough protein, it's my fault i should have told you what weight i am, i am only 165lb, not as big as the guys on here but i just went with the premise of what polumbo said, i x my weight 165lbs by 1.5g of protein and 0.5g of fat and just took it from there i no this is for the 250lb man diet but there isn't one for my weight so i just thought i could get some tips from the more experienced guys on here, next time i post my diet i will be more precise thanks.


I am a mere grasshopper, vince is the man with all the knowledge.

The good thing about this diet is its very easy to understand how it works and why it works when you stick with the plan as detailed.

As ive found, once you start to think you know better, thats when things start to go pear shaped.

Shame its gone now but the original Q&A with dave had everything you needed to know. I spent 2 weeks reading the lot and its surprising how simple he keeps the diet and how easy and straightforward it is.

put it this way its a diet for dummies, you just do as it says and away you go. Its the *only* diet that ive every done that ive not once cheated on and never been hungry.


----------



## gibbsy07

Ok vince extra virgin olive iol dough, my protein gives me 19 g a scoop, but i thought you meant i had to use a different protein powder, dont want to mess with the diet vince but can i have light hellmans mayonaise, and just a sprinkle of cheese just to help the meat go down a little easier, and some veg, i just find meat really dry sometimes and hard to choke down especially when i am not having gravy lol, i don't want to compete vince i just want to lose the gut i have got from bulking over the years, and get the abs showing thanks, also vince can i have the eggs raw for convenience, i no it's allot of questions mate and i am not trying to steal dreds thunder but i just want this diet to work for me thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Keto diets are approx more than 160 years old.

They do work.

DP has modified the diet.

Many do.

A diffrent flavor.

All to satisfy something justified.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Ok vince extra virgin olive iol dough, my protein gives me 19 g a scoop, but i thought you meant i had to use a different protein powder, dont want to mess with the diet vince but can i have light hellmans mayonaise, and just a sprinkle of cheese just to help the meat go down a little easier, and some veg, i just find meat really dry sometimes and hard to choke down especially when i am not having gravy lol, i don't want to compete vince i just want to lose the gut i have got from bulking over the years, and get the abs showing thanks, also vince can i have the eggs raw for convenience, i no it's allot of questions mate and i am not trying to steal dreds thunder but i just want this diet to work for me thanks.


i use a table spoon of evoo with some chilli flakes in it poored over the meat i am eating..

this might of been started by me mate but it would be nothing with out everyone elses knowledge....feel free to add yours and results


----------



## hilly

Vince said:


> This is wrong!
> 
> I swear by this diet but i'm really, really carb sensitive...over 300gr x day in the off season with 3 x 30mins cardio and i gain fat!
> 
> But i'm the first one to say horses for courses...i know loads of guys to whom it would be detrimental following this diet for the lenght of time i do it for.
> 
> Even those ppl can benefit from this diet...some use it in the first 4-6 weeks of prep to kickstart the fat loss, other in the last 4-6 weeks to dial in as much as possible ( if remember correctly James L went on pro/veg on the last 2 weeks leading to the brits)...so you see don't follow what's fashionable but find what works for you. As Hack said knowledge is power.


I no mate some every1 is different but alot of lads in gyms just listen to who ever is around at the time and alot of older blokes seem to give info that isnt correct at all.

I am becoming to realise i am also very very carb sensitive much like yourself. i never took my carbs over the 300-350 mark nov/december time when putting some weight on and my bf jumped right up so from now on when i start bulking again im going to keep a very close eye on carbs at all time.


----------



## hilly

thnks for the info vince its roughly what i had in mind


----------



## Miller

Will drinking knock me out of ketosis?

I know its not ideal but I have a party lined up about 4 weeks into my prospective diet

I was thinking of taking this night as a cheat meal before it and then go out and drink gin and slim and water aswell

what you think?


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> Do you really want an honest answer or just wanna hear what you'd like to hear??


answer it vince :thumb: both barrels mate :innocent:


----------



## hackskii

Yes drinking will knock you out of ketosis, it acts as a sugar in the body and is actually the most preferred fuel that the body wants.

Not only that, but alcohol can stop fat loss dead.

There vince.


----------



## The Bam

Dred Mate found something pretty good. enjoy bud

Ketogenic Foods.

Here's a partial list of just some of the foods that can be consumed on a ketogenic diet. I'll start with the '100% safe foods', the ones that shouldn't throw you out of ketosis due to having either no carbs, or trace amounts of carbs. Next I'll go to 'questionable' foods, such as hotdogs, where you must check the carb content on the package, because some hotdogs have only 1 gram of carbs per hotdog, some have seven. I'm also including a list of higher carb content foods, that can be eaten in VERY limited quantities. Finally I give a list of foods that shouldn't be eaten on a ketodiet at all. (Note: I've tried to list every food I know, in any form, so there will be some redundancy. Foods marked with an '*' are considered healthy, we highly recommend eating them as much as possible while staying under your carb limit and staying in ketosis!)

Safe Foods (No Carbs/Trace Carbs)

Beef, Steak, Hamburger, Prime Rib, Filet Mignon, Roast Beef, Chicken*, Duck, Any Fish*, Tuna*, Salmon*, Trout*, Halibut*, Lamb, Pork, Bacon, Ham, Eggs, Shrimp, Crab, Lobster, Butter, Oils (Olive Oil*, Flaxseed oil*, etc.), Mustard, Salt, Pepper, Soy Sauce, Tea, Coffee, Heavy Cream and Nutrasweet/Equal.

Minimal Carb Foods (Limited Quantities Only, Check Carb Content!)

Broccoli*, Spinach*, Lettuce*, Cabbage*, Bok Choy*, Kale*, Asparagus*, Mustard Greens*, Mushrooms*, Cucumbers*, Pickles*, Olives*, Celery*, Green Beans*, Brussel Sprouts*, Cauliflower*, Artichokes*, Peppers* (Red, Green, Jalapeno, Habanero), Onions*, Nuts, Flaxseeds*, Cheeses, Salami, Pastrami, Hot Dogs, Sausages, Ribs (watch out for the sauce!), Buffalo Wings, Liverwurst, Oysters, Abalone, Protein Powders, Sugar Free Jello, Salad Dressings (some), some Wines.

Higher Carb Foods (Very Limited Quantities!)

Grapefruit*, Lemons*, Limes*, Strawberries*, Olives*, Rasberries*, Blackberries*, Kiwis*, and Half-N-Half.

Foods that are NOT appropriate.

Beer, Mixed drinks, Bread, Milk, Pasta, Grains, Cereal, Rice, Potatoes, Corn, Carrots, Peas, Candy, Cake, Cheesecake, Donuts, Fruit Juices, High Carb Fruits (Apricots, Banannas, Peaches, Nectarines, etc.), Pastries, Non-Diet Soft Drinks, Rolls, Bagels, Popcorn, Battered Foods (Fried Chicken, etc.), Gravy, Honey, Sugar, and Corn Syrup.

Notes: Diet Soft Drinks, such as Diet Coke, Diet 7-Up, and Diet Pepsi can usually be consumed in large quantities, but the citric acid content in these drinks can throw some people out of ketosis. Be sure to check in your individual case if this happens. Hard liquor, such as scotch, vodka, etc can be consumed because they have virtually no carbs. Wine actually makes a nice ketogenic alcoholic drink, as most wines have only 1-6 grams of carbs per glass, the sweeter the wine, the more carbs. Beer is usually very high in carbs, having 10-15 grams per glass. Watch out though, when you're in ketosis your blood sugar will be very low, and the alcohol will have a more pronounced effect.


----------



## DRED

nice one mate  )


----------



## walks

dave has started a new Q&A thread on his new forum http://www.rxmuscle.com/


----------



## hackskii

Diet drinks can have an insulin responce as the tongue taste's sweet.

Diet drinks are acidic in nature and it takes 8 glasses of neutral (distilled water) water to bring the pH back into ballance.

Vince, I have to disagree with you on the heavy cream, there are pretty much no carbs in them and heavy cream is ok, so is butter.

butter contains butrate(sp) which is known to have anti-cancer properties.

Bad fats are not bad when fat is the leading source of calories.

Atkins did some studies on this and guys had inproved lipid profiles even with a diet high in saturated fats.

I think one would be splitting hairs there.


----------



## DRED

skipped training for a couple of days,was feeling fooked but back on form now :thumb:

legs tonight...

tri-set..

leg extentions/laying leg curls/recumbant leg press 4 sets/15 reps on each machine....

leg extentions fst-7 x 10

laying leg curls fst-7 x 10

real good pump tonight :cool2:


----------



## Kezz

do 7 sets of leg press instaed


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> do 7 sets of leg press instaed


i will next time..... :thumb:


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi vince i don't want to compete in competitions,however i do want a six pack,i followed the diet you gave me to the letter, and i do want to succeed,but chicken with evoo is just desgusting i'm sorry but it is, i couldn't stick with that for eight weeks or so.

So just like the guy with the question asking if, he drank alchohol would it kick him out of ketosis, i would like yor straight and honest answer.

hellmans light mayonaise, just a small amount, is it allowed?

very low carb veggies, greens, again just a small amount,and only with one of my main, meat or fish meals?

diet coke, only one can?

cheese, small amount again just for taste?

Thats it, it's just i am very confused, because all of the above foods are, either low carb or trace, and we are told if you keep the carbs below 20g, then you are ok and you will enter ketosis,so all i want is your honest opinion,please don't shoot me down.

And if you say no chance it won't work with that food, then fair comment, and you want me to eat chicken with evoo, can i just salt my chicken, eat it, then afterward take a spoonful, table spoon that is,of oil and then wash it down with water, thanks.


----------



## DRED

what about adding some chilli flakes to your olive oil...

i have asparagus with my evening meal...


----------



## walks

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi vince i don't want to compete in competitions,however i do want a six pack,i followed the diet you gave me to the letter, and i do want to succeed,but chicken with evoo is just desgusting i'm sorry but it is, i couldn't stick with that for eight weeks or so.
> 
> So just like the guy with the question asking if, he drank alchohol would it kick him out of ketosis, i would like yor straight and honest answer.
> 
> hellmans light mayonaise, just a small amount, is it allowed?
> 
> very low carb veggies, greens, again just a small amount,and only with one of my main, meat or fish meals?
> 
> diet coke, only one can?
> 
> cheese, small amount again just for taste?
> 
> Thats it, it's just i am very confused, because all of the above foods are, either low carb or trace, and we are told if you keep the carbs below 20g, then you are ok and you will enter ketosis,so all i want is your honest opinion,please don't shoot me down.
> 
> And if you say no chance it won't work with that food, then fair comment, and you want me to eat chicken with evoo, can i just salt my chicken, eat it, then afterward take a spoonful, table spoon that is,of oil and then wash it down with water, thanks.


Im going to be harsh and to the point.

Youve just got to man the fcuk up and get it down you.

I cant stand eggs but i force them down becasue its whats required.

You have to make a decision and either do the diet to the letter or do a diffrent diet.

TBH i just drink the oil after ive ate the chicken. I hate peanut butter but i stick a Tbsp in my gob with a mouthfull of water to get it down.

Not having a go as i spent the first 2 weeks whining on here wanting to change things, in the end i just got on with it and after a while it becomes routien.

If you want somthing that really tastes like sh1t, try a tuna and whey shake:drool:


----------



## DRED

tuna and whey T A S T Y


----------



## Shan

how much weight have people lost on this diet?

Can someone give me a link or brief overview of what foods I should be eatting on this diet?


----------



## Shan

Vince said:


> read from page 1. all info are here


read all 57 pages lol...

I have been flicking through various pages, just wanted a quick overview...


----------



## hackskii

Vince said:


> Exactly!
> 
> I'm sure Atkins and Keto (pure) have their place and use, just not as competiton diets. You'll never get ripped on those i'm afraid...you're welcome to prove me wrong getting ripped on Atkins tho :lol: :lol: :lol:


If 1 gram of fat equals 9 calories and fat calories are just that, why would a saturated fat added in with this diet be worse than a polyunsaturated or a monounsaturated diet?

If saturated fats are necessary in the diet, and cholesterol is what makes up all our sex hormones, why supplement a saturated fat with another fat?

Why avoid saturated fats in the DP diet when they actually have to be taken in with some consideration for good health?

Would you like me to put up a little copy and paste eye opener on how important saturated fats are?

Or statistics that would suggest saturated fats in some countries are higher than the US and the UK yet heart disease is higher here and in the UK?

Just stirring the pot mate, I would like to know the reason for avoidence of saturated fats.


----------



## DRED

Shan said:


> how much weight have people lost on this diet?
> 
> Can someone give me a link or brief overview of what foods I should be eatting on this diet?


For a 250lb+ man:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/T<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 2, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

Meal 3, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 4, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 5, 8oz STEAK with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL<o></o>

8OZ TURKEY<o></o>

8OZ PORK<o></o>

8OZ BEEF<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 6, 6 whole eggs/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O,3,6,9<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

SUPPS;<o></o>

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO<o></o>

OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9<o></o>

MULTI VIT/MV<o></o>

TRIB/T<o></o>

ZINC/Z<o></o>

PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH<o></o>

<o></o>

in 5 weeks i have lost 17lb...


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> Try this: off season cheap protein&carb shake:
> 
> 500ml Orange or Lime juice
> 
> 180gr (1 can) tuna (i use 2)
> 
> 50gr (2 scoops) maltodextrin
> 
> Blend together and knock it back!


you drank this mate :confused1: ....


----------



## DRED

Vince said:


> When i was poor and couldn't afford whey.
> 
> It actually fills you more than a shake...and with the malto is not too bad either with 1 can...the second made it too thick


that would not of made to my mouth mate,i would of puked every where :thumb:


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi vince,thanks for the honest answer, and i know it may not work and i accept that i am changing the diet slightly, and i know the guys on here are saying shut up and just take your medicine, but in my opinoin,and it is just my opinion you wont just be on this diet once you will be on it again so you may as well see it as a change of lifestyle,and you may as well make it bearable, because yes we need to follow guidelines, but food is for necesity but you may as well enjoy it a little, and if it tastes **** then sooner or later you will thro in the towel, but thats only my opinion, but guys that go threw hell to prepare for competition i take my hat off to them, and i am not being patronising thanks.

But surely if you are careful, and keep the carbs, under 20g it should work fingers crossed.


----------



## Miller

Vince said:


> I think he wanted to hear something on the line of:"go for it mate, you only live once! So what if you get out no big deal"


 no Id just prefer a straight answer

thanks anyway though


----------



## hackskii

Vince said:


> Saturated fats increase bad colesterol, good fats in his diet increase good colesterol, if i have to choose i'd go with the latter.


I honestly feel that this is where Dave may be missguided.

Lipid profiles improve on a keto diet, regardless of fats used.

Saturated fats should be about 1/3 of the fat in your diet anyway, and that is for good health.

Atkins people have lost about a pound a day or about 12 pounds in 2 weeks with zero exercise.

I am not saying the atkins diet is for bodybuilding, I am saying that saturated fats regardless of how they are used dont really effect lipids in a negative way.

Remember HDL improve greatly with exercise, it is the LDL to HDL ratio that would be the problem and I dont see it for a lean guy that is doing alot of training.

If cholesterol is an issue it probably is of a genetic thing and not even diet.

About 20% of your cholesterol is from diet, the other 80% is made from the liver, eating some cheese or butter wont do anything to change lipid profile, the absense of fish oils or monounsaturated would effect it more.

It would be a good idea to keep tabs on all this anyway, just for good reason.


----------



## Beklet

hackskii said:


> If cholesterol is an issue it probably is of a genetic thing and not even diet.
> 
> About 20% of your cholesterol is from diet, the other 80% is made from the liver, eating some cheese or butter wont do anything to change lipid profile, the absense of fish oils or monounsaturated would effect it more.


Can't rep you again Hacks but this is what I had always thought....


----------



## gibbsy07

Vince said:


> And also be more precise to notice who actually replied to you???? :lol: Only jking.
> 
> Would change it like so:
> 
> MEAL1: 4 whole eggs
> 
> MEAL2: 40gr Whey (not powder but actal protein) + 1TBSP All Natural Peanut Butter
> 
> MEAL3: 180gr Chicken/Turkey + 1 TBSP Extra Virgin Olive Oil
> 
> MEAL4: 40gr Whey (not powder but actal protein) + 1TBSP All Natural Peanut Butter
> 
> MEAL5: 180gr Lean Red Meat/Salmon + 1TBSP EVOO
> 
> MEAL6: 4 whole eggs or 40gr Whey (not powder but actal protein) + 1TBSP All Natural Peanut Butter


Hi vince , just wanted to ask a couple of things about, the diet, on meal 6: if i have 40 grams of protein, and 1TBSP, that gives me just over 40g of protein, but if i have 4 whole eggs instead that will leave me short on protein cause 6 g of protein and 7 grams of fat aprox in each egg only gives me 24g of protein so i will be falling short of protein, and probably the same on meal 1: thanks.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi vince so is it always better to keep the fat higher than protein to get into ketosis? or does this just apply for eggs because they are a complete protein, its just that on the 250lb diet, it mixes hole eggs with egg whites, and lastly can i just have my eggs raw cause i prefer them that way cheers.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

This is proving to be a good thread with good info and everytime i read it i love it lol

I have got to disagree with a few things saying but again everyone is entitled to their own opinion as i like hacks dont think that having things like cheese or cream etc will hurt same as bacon and also ham etc as long as its not honey glazed ham!

I have a friend who is a bodybuilder who followed the atkins and he did get his bodyfat to his required levels and did compete and did fairly well too!

I think also that if your body is in ketosis that it does not matter where your getting your fats from as for e.g look at the mediteranian (sp) diet who lhave butter etc but yet up until they had a lot of carbs in their diets they had low heart complaints and fairly good health and look how long they live for!

I know i am probabily going to get shot for this but i think that what atkins says in all his books is right that all this heart problems etc that gets blamed on fats etc is actually caused by the over eating of carbs!

I also agree with polumbo though in his old tread as he argues why would people want NONessential carbs over Essential Fats.......


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi chris i think i may be a bit inpatient, but i have been on this diet from sun 8th, and maybe i did have a little too much veg, that was pointed out by vince, but i have kept the carbs low, but i have lost no weight at all, and no loss in water, is it possible that my body just won't give in and will just keep using the protein i am consuming on this diet cheers.


----------



## walks

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi chris i think i may be a bit inpatient, but i have been on this diet from sun 8th, and maybe i did have a little too much veg, that was pointed out by vince, but i have kept the carbs low, but i have lost no weight at all, and no loss in water, is it possible that my body just won't give in and will just keep using the protein i am consuming on this diet cheers.


Thats only 3 days mate.

It can take 5 days to hit ketosis even longer if you've had massive amounts of carbs the days before starting, That is the reason the first cheat comes after 14 days and not 7.

stick to the diet, keep the water high and check your progress after 14 days.

As ive said i only lost 3 lbs in the first 14 days and nothing since. But my waist is shrinking and my chest even faster.

its easier for the body to use the fat for energy than the protein, the body always goes down the path of least resistance. Too much protein however can keep you out of ketosis

On the cheese, i use about 10g with my eggs. it has less than 0.5g of carbs per 10g

The diet doesn't work great for everyone but with any diet i always give it at least 6 weeks to evaluate it.

You have nothing to lose by giving it a few weeks, your not going to get fat, worst case is that it doesn't work and your where you started.

id be interested to know what your diet was previous to this, mine was total crap and its quite possible that im putting some muscle on with this diet, thus the reason that the scale isn't moving but the fat is


----------



## gibbsy07

walks said:


> Thats only 3 days mate.
> 
> It can take 5 days to hit ketosis even longer if you've had massive amounts of carbs the days before starting, That is the reason the first cheat comes after 14 days and not 7.
> 
> stick to the diet, keep the water high and check your progress after 14 days.
> 
> As ive said i only lost 3 lbs in the first 14 days and nothing since. But my waist is shrinking and my chest even faster.
> 
> its easier for the body to use the fat for energy than the protein, the body always goes down the path of least resistance. Too much protein however can keep you out of ketosis
> 
> On the cheese, i use about 10g with my eggs. it has less than 0.5g of carbs per 10g
> 
> The diet doesn't work great for everyone but with any diet i always give it at least 6 weeks to evaluate it.
> 
> You have nothing to lose by giving it a few weeks, your not going to get fat, worst case is that it doesn't work and your where you started.
> 
> id be interested to know what your diet was previous to this, mine was total crap and its quite possible that im putting some muscle on with this diet, thus the reason that the scale isn't moving but the fat is


Thanks for the encouragement, mate i appreciate it, you said you are possibly putting muscle on thats great, but i am a bit confused cause you say your chest is shrinking does that mean you had fat on your chest mate? before my diet wasn't great but i don't think it was too bad either yes i did have pizza now and again lol, but mostly i would eat pork chops potatoes chicken, and carrots, but weight gainers is probably my biggest culprit lol.


----------



## hackskii

Red meat has long been a staple of dudes going for mass.

If you think saturated fats is conducive of these lessoned results, or compromised lipid profiles of dudes that bodybuild, then I say this...........

Dudes, you want to bulk, eat meat and the fatty stuff as well, and eat complex carbs.........

Eat sugar when growing up, but eat lower GI carbs when getting mid range or older.

When you are young the fire burns hot, carbs are key, and a key to happiness.....lol

When you get older, priorities change, more time working and less time playing.

Playing once you get older is more of a burden, but you have to keep doing it or you will lose it.........

If you dont flex your muscles when you get older, you age.

This makes me feel young.

Nuf said..........


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi hackskii, can i eat my eggs raw, instead of cooked, or are they better cooked, just i find it easier do down them raw, cheers, and in your opinion what is more healthier margarine, the flora stuff, that they say they put in extra omega3 to keep your heart healthy, or butter?


----------



## winger

Bump for more winger embarrassment.


----------



## walks

gibbsy07 said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, mate i appreciate it, you said you are possibly putting muscle on thats great, but i am a bit confused cause you say your chest is shrinking does that mean you had fat on your chest mate? before my diet wasn't great but i don't think it was too bad either yes i did have pizza now and again lol, but mostly i would eat pork chops potatoes chicken, and carrots, but weight gainers is probably my biggest culprit lol.


Ive got fat all over but it comes off my chest first when i diet.

The reason i asked about your previous diet was because most think there getting plenty of protein but when you actually take a look at there diet there's very little in there.

I had the same problem, i thought i was getting plenty of protein but in fact was only get about 150g, now when you come on a diet like this and the protein is almost twice what your use to then its possible that the scale may not be moving because your adding a little muscle to start with.

Its always worth just looking at your previous diet and seeing just where your cals are comming from.

I the past i was only eating 3 times a day but i was eating 4000cal+ with only 600 of those cals protien, no wonder i turned into a fat sh1t. I honestly thought i was getting 300g of protien a day utill i actually wrote down what i was eating


----------



## silverback79

Hi Guys,

I have started the DP diet this week as I always think its good to see what other diets are like. I normally diet on 150grams of carbs with high protein and moderate fats. I do cardio 7 days a week twice a day. I have a stubburn metabolism!!!

I have been dropping the weight but decided to have a go at this diet to see if it can bring me in tighter and quicker. I am going on holiday in March and looking to compete probably at the Gravesend show in August.

So I am using my holiday as test getting ripped and to play around with my diet to see what works for me.

Im weighing in at 85kg lean, and probably be just under 80kg when i compete.

I think this will work for me.I have only really changed the protein to 40-45g per meal. just to suit my weight as I am roughly 190lb.

Anyway I will probably put my own thread up on the progress of this diet and pic. Im on my 4th day and feel ok.


----------



## winger

Welcome to the board silverback79.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi winger nobody wants to answer this one, can i eat my eggs raw or are they better cooked, and what is best margerine, flora margerine that is, or butter thanks.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

yeah man welcome to the board!


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi winger nobody wants to answer this one, can i eat my eggs raw or are they better cooked, and what is best margerine, flora margerine that is, or butter thanks.


you can have your eggs raw mate,if you want some of the other guys do..

whats the flora or butter for mate?


----------



## winger

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi winger nobody wants to answer this one, can i eat my eggs raw or are they better cooked, and what is best margerine, flora margerine that is, or butter thanks.


You can eat them raw but, I heard many years ago that there is an enzyme that needs to be heated in the egg. I am pretty sure you can throw it in the microwave for a very short period of time and you will be ok and it will still look raw.

Butter is a super food so eat your butter and cook with it too.


----------



## Beklet

Don't see why you wouldn't eat your eggs raw, if that's what you prefer.

As for the other - I'd go for butter every time - it's far better for you than margarine.....


----------



## Guest

hackskii said:


> Why would roasted peanuts not be allowed?
> 
> Use macadamia nuts, they are the highest in fats and lowest in carbs.


I was told that in roasted nuts, trans fats are increased and as such natural nuts are a better option.

Suppose it depends how many your eating like!

Just to add, im a stone down in 4 weeks with 2 bad weekends on the beer! (kicks self at where i could be if i hadnt drunk!)


----------



## hackskii

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi hackskii, can i eat my eggs raw, instead of cooked, or are they better cooked, just i find it easier do down them raw, cheers, and in your opinion what is more healthier margarine, the flora stuff, that they say they put in extra omega3 to keep your heart healthy, or butter?


Butter, margarine is a joke, man made crap, even has die in it to make it look like butter.......


----------



## hackskii

mikex101 said:


> I was told that in roasted nuts, trans fats are increased and as such natural nuts are a better option.
> 
> Suppose it depends how many your eating like!
> 
> Just to add, im a stone down in 4 weeks with 2 bad weekends on the beer! (kicks self at where i could be if i hadnt drunk!)


Well, raw and unsalted would be the best, not sure about a monounsaturated fat becomming a trans fat when roasted, not sure about that.


----------



## Beklet

hackskii said:


> Butter, margarine is a joke, man made crap, even has die in it to make it look like butter.......


Yep...isn't margarine grey, 'naturally'???

I could go on for hours about margarine, in fact no companies will admit to selling marg anymore, it's all spreads, because it has such an awful reputation!!! :lol:


----------



## DRED

could you gain muscle on this diet?


----------



## invisiblekid

DRED said:


> could you gain muscle on this diet?


You see I thought not, but the proof is in the pudding (mmmm pudding...  ) so to speak. I've not lost weight at all this week (in fact I'm up by around .5kg :confused1: ) yet my lifts are up, I'm more vascular and my waist has tapered in slightly.

So perhaps it is possible.


----------



## gibbsy07

DRED said:


> you can have your eggs raw mate,if you want some of the other guys do..
> 
> whats the flora or butter for mate?


Hi dred the flora or butter is for future reference mate, when i go back to normal diet i usually have marge mixed in with boiled eggs, and it goes down allot easier, but even just now i suppose you cuold have it with eggs just for a change, so just really wanted to pick the guys with the experiences brains, cause i think margerine gets allot of bad press on the net, so just to see what they thought was heathier.

BTW thats great weight loss 18 pounds, keep it up mate.


----------



## warmy18

Loving this thread, great weight loss man. How far have you got to go before your happy?


----------



## winger

Bump for more butter. Nut butter....lol


----------



## winger

And don't forget the fumunda cheese either. :whistling:

It is 100% calorie free, special orders needs 20 minutes in advance.

Number 19? Damn I get a tad bit tired...lol


----------



## DRED

warmy18 said:


> Loving this thread, great weight loss man. How far have you got to go before your happy?


when are we ever happy with the way we look? :lol:

another 6-8 weeks and then probably bring the carbs back in slowly and try to put some muscle back on...

i tried loosing fat while gaining size before just got bigger but still had padding lol...

should of done this years ago mate strip all the fat and start from the begining...


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys getting a bit frustrated now, been on this now from sun 8th feb and still no sign of ketones not a dickie bird.

MY DIET bearing in mind i am only 165lb

MEAL1:4 whole raw eggs

MEAL 2: protein drink, TBSP of natural peanut butter no added sugar,my protein drink, contains 1.8g of carbs per scoop 19g of protein, i take 2 scoops.

MEAL 3: skinless chicken breast fillet 180g 1 TBSP of helmans light mayonaise no veg dropped that for now.

MEAL 4: protein drink same as above.

MEAL 5: red salmon from tin,or makeral, sardines, 180g 1 TBSP of helmens light mayonase a few baby leaves of spinach, minimal.

MEAL 6: 4 raw eggs, and last night added a TBSP of EVOO, just to up the fat a little

SUPS fish caps, with meals.

starflower oil,excellent source of gla, similar to EPO.

mv.

that's it where am i going wrong or what am i doing wrong, need help tips or advice, i honestly feel no different, maybe a little more energy, but i feel as if my stomach is getting bigger not smaller, it's like my body is storing the fat and won't let go of it lol, where am i getting my energy from if it is not from fat, and definately not from carbs. any advice greatly appreciated thanks.


----------



## Beklet

Your diet looks OK...few carbs in the protein shake but not realy enough to make much difference.

If you're using the ketostix, I wouldn't get too hung up on it - some people who are in ketosis don't show it on those....go by how you're feeling and how you're looking


----------



## invisiblekid

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi guys getting a bit frustrated now, been on this now from sun 8th feb and still no sign of ketones not a dickie bird.
> 
> MY DIET bearing in mind i am only 165lb
> 
> MEAL1:4 whole raw eggs
> 
> MEAL 2: protein drink, TBSP of natural peanut butter no added sugar,my protein drink, contains 1.8g of carbs per scoop 19g of protein, i take 2 scoops.
> 
> MEAL 3: skinless chicken breast fillet 180g 1 TBSP of helmans light mayonaise no veg dropped that for now.
> 
> MEAL 4: protein drink same as above.
> 
> MEAL 5: red salmon from tin,or makeral, sardines, 180g 1 TBSP of helmens light mayonase a few baby leaves of spinach, minimal.
> 
> MEAL 6: 4 raw eggs, and last night added a TBSP of EVOO, just to up the fat a little
> 
> SUPS fish caps, with meals.
> 
> starflower oil,excellent source of gla, similar to EPO.
> 
> mv.
> 
> that's it where am i going wrong or what am i doing wrong, need help tips or advice, i honestly feel no different, maybe a little more energy, but i feel as if my stomach is getting bigger not smaller, it's like my body is storing the fat and won't let go of it lol, where am i getting my energy from if it is not from fat, and definately not from carbs. any advice greatly appreciated thanks.


Do you mind me asking how tall you are? Unless you're on the short side why diet at 165lb? Just curious - no offense meant.


----------



## gibbsy07

Beklet said:


> Your diet looks OK...few carbs in the protein shake but not realy enough to make much difference.
> 
> If you're using the ketostix, I wouldn't get too hung up on it - some people who are in ketosis don't show it on those....go by how you're feeling and how you're looking


thanks for reply mate, i feel ok, but look wise no different belly is still there, actually looks bigger, aaaaarghhh, :confused1:


----------



## winger

Gibbsy have you dropped any weight?

Your diet is clean. Generally if you don't get into keytosis you need to up the fat. But I would hate that you add so much fat to get into keytosis and gain weight..lol


----------



## gibbsy07

invisiblekid said:


> Do you mind me asking how tall you are? Unless you're on the short side why diet at 165lb? Just curious - no offense meant.


No offence taken mate appreciate help, am only 5 7'' short **** lol, and that is my actual weight 165lb or there bouts thanks.


----------



## invisiblekid

gibbsy07 said:


> No offence taken mate appreciate help, am only 5 7'' short **** lol, and that is my actual weight 165lb or there bouts thanks.


In that case do you need to diet? How long have you been training? What was your diet like prior to undertaking a keto diet?


----------



## gibbsy07

winger said:


> Gibbsy have you dropped any weight?
> 
> Your diet is clean. Generally if you don't get into keytosis you need to up the fat. But I would hate that you add so much fat to get into keytosis and gain weight..lol


Thats just it winger my belly does look bigger lol, last night as i said i added a TBSP of EVOO to my eggs to maybe kickstart it aaaarghhh :confused1: i no guys are doing well on this and i don't want to bring the mood down, but just getting a bit frustrated.


----------



## gibbsy07

invisiblekid said:


> In that case do you need to diet? How long have you been training? What was your diet like prior to undertaking a keto diet?


Yes mate i do need a diet, just want to get the body fat down and start from a clean slate and try and bulk clean, but i do have a gut, never going to be massive cause of my frame, medium frame, been training for years, but do have breaks sometimes, if i get colds n stuff.


----------



## The Bam

hi guys just a quick one, right been on the diet for a week now going pretty good, got some keto sticks and im in ketosis 

Monday im starting clen with t3 so will I need my carb day at the weekend ? because surley the t3 is going to keep my thyroid will be preety active any way.

thanks guys


----------



## The Bam

hilly2008 said:


> any1 else having trouble getting to sleep on this diet?


yeah mate deffinatley!! was so sh*t first few nights, but then I didnt take the zinc and magnessium tabs I was using before bed and slept like a log!

are you using then or not ?


----------



## invisiblekid

The Bam said:


> hi guys just a quick one, right been on the diet for a week now going pretty good, got some keto sticks and im in ketosis
> 
> Monday im starting clen with t3 so will I need my carb day at the weekend ? because surley the t3 is going to keep my thyroid will be preety active any way.
> 
> thanks guys


I would say yes. Glycogen stores will need replenishing. Sanity also.

Won't clen just increase cortisol?


----------



## LittleChris

You don't have carbs until 14days into the diet.

Make it the last meal of the day as well.


----------



## hilly

yeh i had my first cheat meal after 12 days or so. as above it is important for glycogen replenishment as well as sanity lol.

any1 using sugar free jelly as a snack on this diet. i totally forgot about the stuff.


----------



## The Bam

invisiblekid said:


> I would say yes. Glycogen stores will need replenishing. Sanity also.
> 
> Won't clen just increase cortisol?


hi mate thanks for advice just a quick one hat the increase of cortisol going to do when im on th diet ?

cheers mate


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> when are we ever happy with the way we look? :lol:
> 
> another 6-8 weeks and then probably bring the carbs back in slowly and try to put some muscle back on...
> 
> i tried loosing fat while gaining size before just got bigger but still had padding lol...
> 
> should of done this years ago mate strip all the fat and start from the begining...


Thats the way i was thinking, in the end i thought balls to bulking just get rid of all the fat and start from scratch, one things for sure after you get the fat off you dont ever put it all back on after dieting your ass off for 16 weeks



gibbsy07 said:


> No offence taken mate appreciate help, am only 5 7'' short **** lol, and that is my actual weight 165lb or there bouts thanks.


There's a chance you could be talking in too much protein, too much will kick you out of ketosis. You don't need 300g at 165lbs.

calculate your protein intake see how much you are actually consuming.

I don't take in 300g myself, started to get better results when i dropped it slightly to 250g


----------



## gibbsy07

There's a chance you could be talking in too much protein, too much will kick you out of ketosis. You don't need 300g at 165lbs.

calculate your protein intake see how much you are actually consuming.

I don't take in 300g myself, started to get better results when i dropped it slightly to 250g


----------



## winger

After 14 days you should loose on average for a man about 9-12 lbs, that's if memory serves. That was in the Atkins book, but it's been like 10 years since I read it.


----------



## walks

gibbsy07 said:


> There's a chance you could be talking in too much protein, too much will kick you out of ketosis. You don't need 300g at 165lbs.
> 
> calculate your protein intake see how much you are actually consuming.
> 
> I don't take in 300g myself, started to get better results when i dropped it slightly to 250g


Hi walks my protein intake is only around 212g, what weight are you?

As for getting kicked out of ketosis, i am not even in it yet:confused1:


----------



## Miller

DRED said:


> could you gain muscle on this diet?


apparently you can

amazing that a diet which strips you so well can not only preserve muscle but help you put it on


----------



## Kezz

winger said:


> After 14 days you should loose on average for a man about 9-12 lbs, that's if memory serves. That was in the Atkins book, but it's been like 10 years since I read it.


 I lost 10lb after the 1st week but got ill after the 2nd week and scrapped it


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> I lost 10lb after the 1st week but got ill after the 2nd week and scrapped it


girl :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys getting a bit frustrated now, been on this now from sun 8th feb and still no sign of ketones not a dickie bird.

MY DIET bearing in mind i am only 165lb

MEAL1:4 whole raw eggs

MEAL 2: protein drink, TBSP of natural peanut butter no added sugar,my protein drink, contains 1.8g of carbs per scoop 19g of protein, i take 2 scoops.

MEAL 3: skinless chicken breast fillet 180g 1 TBSP of helmans light mayonaise no veg dropped that for now.

MEAL 4: protein drink same as above.

MEAL 5: red salmon from tin,or makeral, sardines, 180g 1 TBSP of helmens light mayonase a few baby leaves of spinach, minimal.

MEAL 6: 4 raw eggs, and last night added a TBSP of EVOO, just to up the fat a little

SUPS fish caps, with meals.

starflower oil,excellent source of gla, similar to EPO.

mv.

that's it where am i going wrong or what am i doing wrong, need help tips or advice, i honestly feel no different, maybe a little more energy, but i feel as if my stomach is getting bigger not smaller, it's like my body is storing the fat and won't let go of it lol, where am i getting my energy from if it is not from fat, and definately not from carbs. any advice greatly appreciated.

VINCE IF YOUR THERE NEED YOUR HELP BIG MAN,NOBODY HAS ANY ANSWERS.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi guys getting a bit frustrated now, been on this now from sun 8th feb and still no sign of ketones not a dickie bird.
> 
> MY DIET bearing in mind i am only 165lb
> 
> MEAL1:4 whole raw eggs
> 
> MEAL 2: protein drink, TBSP of natural peanut butter no added sugar,my protein drink, contains 1.8g of carbs per scoop 19g of protein, i take 2 scoops.
> 
> MEAL 3: skinless chicken breast fillet 180g 1 TBSP of helmans light mayonaise no veg dropped that for now.
> 
> MEAL 4: protein drink same as above.
> 
> MEAL 5: red salmon from tin,or makeral, sardines, 180g 1 TBSP of helmens light mayonase a few baby leaves of spinach, minimal.
> 
> MEAL 6: 4 raw eggs, and last night added a TBSP of EVOO, just to up the fat a little
> 
> SUPS fish caps, with meals.
> 
> starflower oil,excellent source of gla, similar to EPO.
> 
> mv.
> 
> that's it where am i going wrong or what am i doing wrong, need help tips or advice, i honestly feel no different, maybe a little more energy, but i feel as if my stomach is getting bigger not smaller, it's like my body is storing the fat and won't let go of it lol, where am i getting my energy from if it is not from fat, and definately not from carbs. any advice greatly appreciated VINCE if your there need your help big man, NOBODY SEEMS TO HAVE AN ANSWER FOR ME


mate its been 5 days....its a real simple diet to follow.

do it as it says and you should loose weight...

oh yeah throw those bloody ketostix out the window...

how is your training?

are you doin cardio?


----------



## Miller

winger said:


> After 14 days you should loose on average for a man about 9-12 lbs, that's if memory serves. That was in the Atkins book, but it's been like 10 years since I read it.


how much do you think of that is fat?

I mean 2lb of fat is 1% body fat for a 200lb man is it not?

you'd be hoping for at least 3lb of fat for 12lb of weight wouldnt you?


----------



## gibbsy07

DRED said:


> mate its been 5 days....its a real simple diet to follow.
> 
> do it as it says and you should loose weight...
> 
> oh yeah throw those bloody ketostix out the window...
> 
> how is your training?
> 
> are you doin cardio?


Hi dred training is fine, not doing cardio, didn't want to do it that early, i know the ketostix can be unreliable, but i no i am not in ketosis no bad breath, no funny taste, and my belly looks bigger lol, i am following the diet, the only difference is the helmans mayonase, but less than 20 carbs a day should surely put me in ketosis.


----------



## The Bam

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi dred training is fine, not doing cardio, didn't want to do it that early, i know the ketostix can be unreliable, but i no i am not in ketosis no bad breath, no funny taste, and my belly looks bigger lol, i am following the diet, the only difference is the helmans mayonase, but less than 20 carbs a day should surely put me in ketosis.


hi mate hope your well

pretty sure ist your complete lack of cardio !

the level of ketones in your body increase witht the amount of low intensity cardio performed or so I have read


----------



## gibbsy07

The Bam said:


> hi mate hope your well
> 
> pretty sure ist your complete lack of cardio !
> 
> the level of ketones in your body increase witht the amount of low intensity cardio performed or so I have read[/quote
> 
> thanks bam, i'm ok just a bit frustrated i was just trying to leave out the cardio to spare the muscle, because DP says start cardio when your not losing weight anymore.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

I like this diet but u LOVE the atkins diet as the guy definatly knew his stuff and did his own research as well as quoting other peoples and also letting you look at other intelligent peoples as he knew that this diet worked and the reason that it worked was it is the bodies most favourite state, as this is what the bodies use to be in when we was cave men and out bodies go back to this just as they do when we dont eat or dont eat enough and the body goes into survival mode as it use ot before when again the cave men never use to be able to go to the shops for food!

People i know it is DP's Diet but what i would suggets if you havent already done it as i am sure DP himself would have, is read Atkins work and you will get a better understanding of everything from Glycosis (the state when your body is using carbs as energy) and Ketosis (which as we all know is when it is using fat) and if you do read the atkins book it tells you more of a better life etc and how to reintroduce carbs into your diet but to a level where you are not gaining weight again and you are not harming your health as there was/are proven studies that atkins or ketosis diets what ever you want to call them are more better for your health than the "Normal" diet that people follow and also that they help with your HDL/LDL level and your triglicerides (sp) in your body etc as proven through blood work done by Atkins himself and also other Doctors.

The only reason why these diets got a bad name and also the Atkins one especially is for 2 reasons one big one is that all the low fat diets that was floating around for years and years which was actually causing more harm than good on peoples health made this diet sound bad due to the amount of fats in it which was supposed to be bad and also the enermy, and the second was that the rumour of Dr Atkins dying on his own diet which again was BS as what actually did kill him at a good age i might add was that one night as he was leaving his office he slipped on some ice and hit his head which placed him into a coma which he then never woke from not a heart attack as all the rumours say!

Hope this bit of info helps guys if not then as usual i have gone on about a load of BS myself just to get post count up yet again PMSL


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Oh and in terms of the diet i also have Mayo with most of my things e.g if i have a can of tuna instead of my protein shake i will add mayo or if i have chicken with nuts i again have mayo as i find chicken dry so struggle to eat on its own and with this type of diet i dont see no harm in having mayo as there are no carbs and its nearly all fats!


----------



## invisiblekid

The Bam said:


> hi mate thanks for advice just a quick one hat the increase of cortisol going to do when im on th diet ?
> 
> cheers mate


Clen (any stimulant) will increase cortisol. Cortisol will reduce protein synthesis and also bring you in to a catbolic state.

Only use stimulants if you are using gear unless you want to drop muscle as well as fat. Also, keep training sessions intense, but short - less than an hour. Cortisol raises sharply after an hour.

As for your refeed start it after the second week has passed.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi dred training is fine, not doing cardio, didn't want to do it that early, i know the ketostix can be unreliable, but i no i am not in ketosis no bad breath, no funny taste, and my belly looks bigger lol, i am following the diet, the only difference is the helmans mayonase, but less than 20 carbs a day should surely put me in ketosis.


i never had the funny taste,my wife tells me i have bad breath though...

pot and kettle comes to mind :lol: biatch ..

i am eating more food now than i was before i started the diet....how was your diet before staring this?


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi dred my diet before this was pretty much, chicken pork chops,meat, pizza sometimes, and potatoes an usually some veg,+ oats with my protein drink, and eggs cooked different ways not too bad a diet, but i am pretty much like you except your size lol, i wanted a clean page to start from again, and try and bulk as clean as poss, from there, thanks, i no what you are saying is true dred, but i think i am losing muscle from this diet and i am not the biggest guy in the gym lol but i have never been a big eater dred so i did try and drink alot of my calories sometimes, but i am pleased yours is going well mate n get your wife some mouth wash lol, jst joking mate.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi dred my diet before this was pretty much, chicken pork chops,meat, pizza sometimes, and potatoes an usually some veg,+ oats with my protein drink, and eggs cooked different ways not too bad a diet, but i am pretty much like you except your size lol, i wanted a clean page to start from again, and try and bulk as clean as poss, from there, thanks, i no what you are saying is true dred, but i think i am losing muscle from this diet and i am not the biggest guy in the gym lol but i have never been a big eater dred so i did try and drink alot of my calories sometimes, but i am pleased yours is going well mate n get your wife some mouth wash lol, jst joking mate.


everyone gets that shrinking feeling on a diet,i had it at the start....

you feel like your waisting away......remember anything you take of you can put back :beer:


----------



## gibbsy07

DRED said:


> everyone gets that shrinking feeling on a diet,i had it at the start....
> 
> you feel like your waisting away......remember anything you take of you can put back :beer:


thanks mate i'll keep going see where it takes me, i am really getting to like the taste of fish, NOT HAHA, why does the things that are good for you usually taste like **** lol.


----------



## winger

If you don't like the way it tastes then you probably should eat it.

I have been doing my own low carb diet but still drinking beer, lots..lol

I am down 7 lbs in about 2 weeks. I have had only one carb day and that wasn't really a carb day.

I tried this before while drinking beer and never fell into keytosis, but for me, when I back off on carbs I loose the fat and bloat.

If you don't exceed 20 grams of carbs most everybody gets into keytosis. I suspect, gibbsy, you are getting some extra carbs from somewhere.

I just did a search and they say normal weight loss is between 5-10 lbs in that first week. I remember them saying normal men should loose 10 lbs. Now don't forget, when you reduce carbohydrates you loose water too, just saying.

I have never personally met a person that didn't respond very well to this type of diet.

If you decide to take in carbs, make sure they are low glycimic veggies that are high in fiber. All high fiber veggies are low glycimic.... 

If you want to eat fruit (not recommended) eat apples, but once again do not exceed 20 grams of carbs in the induction phase of the (Atkins) diet.

Notice I say Atkins? He was the first and this diet was designed for heart patients that were getting ready for heart surgery. So really, it is the real deal.

Please do not over complicate this, it really is that easy.


----------



## DRED

another pound of this week 16.3 now :thumb:

3 inches of round my belly button line.....

and now my chest sticks out further than my belly :beer:

cheat meal tonight and i cant wait :clap:


----------



## hilly

i droped around 8 pound in the first 2 weeks or so. I started on the 5th jan and as of today i am 17 pound down. As winger has said if you over complicate the diet and start looking for extra things to add in etc you will proberly make it more dificult. dave p's version is incredibly easy to stick to and every1 can work it into their schedule as you just swap meals around etc to suit.


----------



## MissBC

I have dropped about 10 pounds in 2 weeks and thats with a few missed cardio sessions due to being sick! I like it!! minimal effort, max results, room to move when it slows and if you just follow the rules it will work everytime!!


----------



## DRED

chest/bi,s...

chest..

giant set....incline pec dec/flat press machine/incline press machine/cable crossovers 4 sets

bi,s...

db curls 3 sets

v.bar cable curls 4 sets

cable concentration curls 3 sets


----------



## DRED

its been almost 6 weeks so here are some progress pictures....


----------



## hilly

looks like your making good improvements mate congrats.


----------



## gibbsy07

Well done dred you look much leaner, from your first pics keep up the good work mate.


----------



## Kezz

where the fook did you get those undies from!! LOL


----------



## Kezz

you are going to have some seriously good legs i think


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> you are going to have some seriously good legs i think


strange i always felt legs were my weakest body part,oh yeah pants are from next :thumb: :lol: :lol: :thumb:


----------



## winger

Dred you look damn good mate. Actually you look strong like bull. 

One more thing on a low carb diet. The key is to keep blood sugar down so your body wont produce to much insulin. We all know carbs turn to sugar, all carbs do but at different rates. So carbs elevate blood sugar and bamn here comes the insulin from the body.

If you eat a big meal and lets say there were no carbs in it. Even a big meal will spike insulin, so all I am saying is be sensible. :whistling:


----------



## DRED

winger said:


> Dred you look damn good mate. Actually you look strong like bull.
> 
> One more thing on a low carb diet. The key is to keep blood sugar down so your body wont produce to much insulin. We all know carbs turn to sugar, all carbs do but at different rates. So carbs elevate blood sugar and bamn here comes the insulin from the body.
> 
> If you eat a big meal and lets say there were no carbs in it. Even a big meal will spike insulin, so all I am saying is be sensible. :whistling:


cheers winger it might sound boaring but i eat the same thing everyday,except on my cheat meal.

no big meals either they are all sensible sizes....

when i look at whats on my plate now i was deffo eating to much before.


----------



## warmy18

Very good improvements m8, keep it up. Going to look ferkin good when you get some definition and you don't look like you have long to go. Trying this diet myself next month.

Have you altered your sets to get some shape?


----------



## gibbsy07

winger said:


> If you don't like the way it tastes then you probably should eat it.
> 
> I have been doing my own low carb diet but still drinking beer, lots..lol
> 
> I am down 7 lbs in about 2 weeks. I have had only one carb day and that wasn't really a carb day.
> 
> I tried this before while drinking beer and never fell into keytosis, but for me, when I back off on carbs I loose the fat and bloat.
> 
> If you don't exceed 20 grams of carbs most everybody gets into keytosis. I suspect, gibbsy, you are getting some extra carbs from somewhere.
> 
> I just did a search and they say normal weight loss is between 5-10 lbs in that first week. I remember them saying normal men should loose 10 lbs. Now don't forget, when you reduce carbohydrates you loose water too, just saying.
> 
> I have never personally met a person that didn't respond very well to this type of diet.
> 
> If you decide to take in carbs, make sure they are low glycimic veggies that are high in fiber. All high fiber veggies are low glycimic....
> 
> If you want to eat fruit (not recommended) eat apples, but once again do not exceed 20 grams of carbs in the induction phase of the (Atkins) diet.
> 
> Notice I say Atkins? He was the first and this diet was designed for heart patients that were getting ready for heart surgery. So really, it is the real deal.
> 
> Please do not over complicate this, it really is that easy.


Hi winger the only thing i have changed about this diet is instead of having EVOO, WITH MY CHICKEN, i have had helmans light mayonaise, but now i have even started to take a TBSP OF EVOO, after my meals to get more fat, and i haven't had any vegies in the last two days, so my diet is clean mate i am not cheating because if i was then i would only be cheating myself, and i am not suggesting you are saying i am cheating, you just think i am getting carbs from somewhere, but no i posted my diet up here and that has been my diet all week, well below 20g of carbs, the only carb,s in there is from my protein drink, and with two scoops of that, at 1.8g of carbs a scoop, and 19g of protein a scoop that is it.

So maybe i am in ketosis and just don't no it, i just thought when you did finaly go into ketosis you would feel a major change in your body but i don,t but if my body wasn't using ketones for energy, where am i getting it from because it is DEFO, not from carbs, so the only other place is from protein, surely if my body wasn't getting energy from somewhere, i would feel shattered or my body would shut down no. BUT I AM NO EXPERT JUST A NEWBIE, AND ANY INPUT FROM THE BOARD IS WELCOME.


----------



## DRED

warmy18 said:


> Very good improvements m8, keep it up. Going to look ferkin good when you get some definition and you don't look like you have long to go. Trying this diet myself next month.
> 
> Have you altered your sets to get some shape?


not really mate,sometimes i do tri-sets/super sets/giant sets...

sometimes i pre-exhaust and sometimes add fst-7 method into my workout...tbo it depends how i feel when i start training :thumb:


----------



## winger

I am stabbing in the dark now..lol

I see you drink 2 protein drinks. I wonder if those can do it? One thing is to cook up a steak and chew that bad boy up and it takes a good 10 minutes to eat. The other is to drink the equivalent protein amount in 1 minute.

I am pretty sure it would take the body a while to process that steak. That is why these guys like their protein drink post workout, it hits the body fast when it needs it.


----------



## gibbsy07

Maybe i am in ketosis winger and i just don't no it. today i cut my protein drink down to one scoop to see if that would make a difference, but if i am not in ketosis am i in any danger of becoming ill? I WILL LEAVE THIS QUESTION TO THE EXPERTS.


----------



## winger

gibbsy07 said:


> Maybe i am in ketosis winger and i just don't no it. today i cut my protein drink down to one scoop to see if that would make a difference, but if i am not in ketosis am i in any danger of becoming ill? I WILL LEAVE THIS QUESTION TO THE EXPERTS.


Nope. None what so ever.


----------



## gibbsy07

Vince said:


> For your weight (165lbs) 245gr protein and 82gr fats
> 
> Now i don't know what diet you were following before if any at all (by your stats i doubt it) so maybe switching to 6 meals is the reason why you feel bloated or it could be you weren't getting anywhere near this amount of protein before altho you might have thought so.
> 
> All I know is you been on this diet 5 minutes and are already questioning and fidgiting for results, this diet works and Dread and others can vouch for but it's not a miracle diet so stick to the progamme put your head down and start doing your cardio.
> 
> If you want a quick fix diet can always try 2 bowls of special K a day and see where it get ya


Hi vince i am not questioning the diet and i no the diet is working for dred, and i am pleased for him, maybe you got me wrong i am not looking for a quick fix, i just wondered if i was doing something wrong that's all the only change i have made is i am having LIGHT MAYONAISE INSTEAD OF EVOO,apart from that i have stuck to it, and i will keep sticking to, it will be a week come sunday, and then another week to go, the only thing i was worried about was if i didn't no if i was in ketosis, for sure, then do i go ahead and have my cheat meal, after my two weeks is up thats all thanks.


----------



## hackskii

MissBC said:


> I have dropped about 10 pounds in 2 weeks and thats with a few missed cardio sessions due to being sick! I like it!! minimal effort, max results, room to move when it slows and if you just follow the rules it will work everytime!!


Good going girl, that is good news.

Dred, nice pics and nice ass too...... :lol:

Ketosis is safe unless you are a diabetic or a big time alcoholic.......I doubt you are either one of those.


----------



## DRED

went out with the dog this morning,felt like a sack of poo...

tired and slugish,could of been due to my cheat meal last night...

thats the first time this has happened..

i had chilli/rice/bread/nachos.....followed by cake and cream...to many carbs i think :confused1:


----------



## SOUTHMAN

Im hitting 2556 to 2679 cals a day on this diet, at a bodyweight of about 190lbs, do you thing this is to much?

Im get 48% cals from protein 47% from fat and the rest from carbs, Does this sound ok or should i lower the cals?


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> Im hitting 2556 to 2679 cals a day on this diet, at a bodyweight of about 190lbs, do you thing this is to much?
> 
> Im get 48% cals from protein 47% from fat and the rest from carbs, Does this sound ok or should i lower the cals?


are you doin the diet for a 200lb man?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

yes but im not quite 200lbs. Im loosing weight but very slowly, not had the results that are claimed on here! just wondering if my cals are too high?


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> yes but im not quite 200lbs. Im loosing weight but very slowly, not had the results that are claimed on here! just wondering if my cals are too high?


i am doin the one for a 250lb man and i am down to 229lb i was 247lb at the start.

so i would say no to you having to many cals.

are you doin cardio?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

yeah 30 minutes to an hour am and the same pm. this probably occurs 4-5 days of the week but i do at least 30 minutes 7 days a week garan.

Ive been dieting a month now but no sign of abs as of yet. Im hoping next month ill be seeing better results. I want to get lean for the end of april you see.


----------



## DRED

have you lost weight since starting the diet?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

DRED said:


> have you lost weight since starting the diet?


A very small amount like a few lbs but its really up and down somethimes i think ive gained lol!


----------



## Patsy

Interesting thread this

Basic rule is 30g of carbs per day but what about pre/post/ppwo carbs? whats the amount of carbs recommended for these times guys?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

you dont have them. The carbs you get are from non direct carb sources so peanut butters, nuts, veggies. Just stuff with a couple of grams of carbs.


----------



## hilly

southman i started diet at 210 piunds ad when i worked it out using dave's ratio's i ws aving 2400 300 protein and 100 at roughly o id say youwere havingto much however if your loosing weight then its ok.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

if i need to make a few cuts where do you suggest i make them? drop protein and fats or just one of them?


----------



## Patsy

What do you have as a food source mate before and after workout?

Sorry for being a bit dim on the subject but dieting is not my strong point mate


----------



## SOUTHMAN

depends where your work out is on the diet

5 eggs

50g whey shake with natty pb

2 tins tuna/ 200g chicken 1 spoon olive oil..little veg

50g whey shake 1 spoon natty pb

250 chicken, beef, salmon....1 spoon olive oil veg

5 eggs or 50g shake and natty pb

your workout will come inbetween one of those. If you have an additional shake before and after then your macros wont come in


----------



## Patsy

I see mate, i workout about 9 in the morning so my meal before would be eggs and meal after would be whey and pb shake?

Also are meal times crucial?

One more question are omega 3 eggs essential or can you eat any eggs?

Cheers mate.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

omega 3 eggs are better, i use regular eggs as they are what i can afford.

I dont have set meal times but rather times between meals so i eat every 3 hours or there abouts, by doing this meal times become regular and stops hunger pains


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> Dred , you are doing so well on this diet I feel proud of you!


thanks gg how you getting on with your diet :thumb:


----------



## dmcc

Woooo I got a big tub of the H&B natural peanut butter today. But I've been going carb-mental the last two days, naughty me. I also saw cashew butter - interesting! At the moment they have 200g plain cashews for £1.79 and 500g raw almonds for £4.49, so I got the supplies in!


----------



## walks

hilly2008 said:


> southman i started diet at 210 piunds ad when i worked it out using dave's ratio's i ws aving 2400 300 protein and 100 at roughly o id say youwere havingto much however if your loosing weight then its ok.


when i worked it out it came to just over 2000cals for the 200lb diet


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> Dred, I am onto a winner this time! I am going to stick with it till I get to thinking about competing again. That may be some time as I have just started a new job and I won't get a holiday till August.
> 
> No joint pains, feel wonderful again, lots of energy and the bodyfat is still going down.
> 
> I am having mostly protein/veg during the week then a few extra carbs on a Sunday. I made a home made apple and banana crumble for my cheat today and it was just heaven after the main course of turkey and baked potato with cauli.
> 
> I will be posting more new photos in my journal next week, when I have my new netbook delivered. I am typing this on a borrowed laptop, but it has Vista which I hate. It's near impossible to download photos and resize them on the damned thing. But at least I can still read the site and add comments.


thats good news gg :thumb:


----------



## invisiblekid

dmcc said:


> Woooo I got a big tub of the H&B natural peanut butter today. But I've been going carb-mental the last two days, naughty me. I also saw cashew butter - interesting! At the moment they have 200g plain cashews for £1.79 and 500g raw almonds for £4.49, so I got the supplies in!


I usually go for the almond butter. Tastes better and lower carb than the cashew iirc. It's pretty expensive though compared to peanut butter, but mixes in a shake better than the crunchy stuff.


----------



## hilly

walks said:


> when i worked it out it came to just over 2000cals for the 200lb diet


dnt no mate never worked that one out somewere on this thread con posted how many grams of protein and fat you are allowed per pound of body weight.

it may have been 1.5g protein and 0.5g fat. thats how i worked mine out.


----------



## Miller

invisiblekid said:


> I usually go for the almond butter. Tastes better and lower carb than the cashew iirc. It's pretty expensive though compared to peanut butter, but mixes in a shake better than the crunchy stuff.


 where are you finding the almond butter mate?

cant seem to find it anywhere


----------



## dmcc

Holland and Barratt too.


----------



## walks

hilly2008 said:


> dnt no mate never worked that one out somewere on this thread con posted how many grams of protein and fat you are allowed per pound of body weight.
> 
> it may have been 1.5g protein and 0.5g fat. thats how i worked mine out.


Yeah. In daves original thread he says 1-1.5g of protien and 0.5g fat.

The diet he posted was just an example of what 6 meals might look like.

I read many versions one from someone that worked with dave said it should be based on LBM not overall wieght


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Yeah. In daves original thread he says 1-1.5g of protien and 0.5g fat.
> 
> The diet he posted was just an example of what 6 meals might look like.
> 
> I read many versions one from someone that worked with dave said it should be based on LBM not overall wieght


how would you find out your LBM?


----------



## hackskii

I hate the taste of almond butter, it is strong on the almond flavor.



Vince said:


> Mate if this is your diet i can see why you're not losing weight.
> 
> Too many proteins for you IMO


I totally agree.


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> how would you find out your LBM?


minus you BF% from your scale wieght

So if your 20% at 200

20%= 40lb

lbm= 160lb.

Btw the guy did say that you should only go off LBM if your over 20% BF.


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> minus you BF% from your scale wieght
> 
> So if your 20% at 200
> 
> 20%= 40lb
> 
> lbm= 160lb.
> 
> Btw the guy did say that you should only go off LBM if your over 20% BF.


nice one mate so how or where do i find my fat %?

cheers buddy :beer:


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> nice one mate so how or where do i find my fat %?
> 
> cheers buddy :beer:


Thats the problem, its quite hard to measure your BF accurately.

Even people that are trained to do it can be a few % out when using calipers.

Your losing well so i wouldnt worry about it.

Im off the diet now, i need to do some proper cardio to get my fittness up and get my metabolism going. So im back on the low carbs


----------



## hilly

yeh i didnt use LBM and have averaged 3 pound a week since i started


----------



## winger

hilly2008 said:


> yeh i didnt use LBM and have averaged 3 pound a week since i started


That is huge hilly. For how many weeks have you been averaging 3 pounds?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

Vince said:


> Mate if this is your diet i can see why you're not losing weight.
> 
> Too many proteins for you IMO


Damm lol, how much protein per-meal would you suggest, I weighed in the morning at 13stone 13lbs? I was aiming for 50g at each meal mainly because its an easy amount to get


----------



## SOUTHMAN

ok nice one cheerz vince ill get cracking on it!


----------



## hilly

winger said:


> That is huge hilly. For how many weeks have you been averaging 3 pounds?


started diet on the 5th jan mate so 6 weeks mate. started at 15 stone 6-7 (it said like 6 3/4 lol) and sat just gone i was 14 stone 4.

I have been running clen eod for the last 4 weeks and started t4 1 week ago.

cardio has been at 30 mins pre breaky for the last 3 weeks i have now increased this to 45 mins pre breaky this week. i havnt cheated once.

my cheat meal i allow myself to eat whatever i want afyter 8pm on a sat night until i go to bed. this will be reduced when and if needed.


----------



## walks

Vince said:


> I see what you mean.
> 
> I'm 210lbs now, was 217 at beginning of diet and take in slightly more than you (55gr).
> 
> Also as Walks mentioned BF level counts, so try bringing it down slightly to about 45gr x meal and fats around 12gr x meal and check back in after a week.


Not on it now but thats what i did, Due to my BF there was no way i needed 50g per meal. Just dropped it a little until i was happy with the fat loss.

For me 250g on any diet seems to be the right amount.

I was reading Dave's new thread and he points out that while he starts everyone out on the same diet, when you actually pay him, he tailors it to your specific metabolism depending on how your doing.

While we can do very well from the basic diet, paying him for his knowledge is what will take you from a 2nd or 3rd place to a 1st place.

He now has a dvd out with a diet seminar on it, ive heard its very good and goes into detail about his diet strategies. I'm going to try and get hold of a copy in the next few days


----------



## SOUTHMAN

walks can you post your diet if you dont mind bro?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

i got some whole earth PB last week, the brand i usually get is unsalted but the whole earth one contains salt. I dont mind the taste but i much preffer it unsalted


----------



## The Bam

guys just a quick one, some one on the forum have said to me that the keto diet is one of the worse diests for muscle breakdown, and been catabolic, even though I read its very good for maintaing lean muscle mass

whats crack ? cheers


----------



## winger

The Bam said:


> guys just a quick one, some one on the forum have said to me that the keto diet is one of the worse diests for muscle breakdown, and been catabolic, even though I read its very good for maintaing lean muscle mass
> 
> whats crack ? cheers


Cant speak for anybody else but my body responds well with this type of diet.


----------



## walks

SOUTHMAN said:


> walks can you post your diet if you dont mind bro?


it was exactly the same as daves 200lb example diet, but with slighly less protien at each meal.

Wanted to stay on it but i really need to do some proper cardio so ive had to come off.

I will be going back on it in a few months once im happy with my fitness


----------



## Patsy

I read somewhere that drinking diet coke can bring you out of ketosis

If true how is this even possible?

Anyone got any views on this?


----------



## LittleChris

Diet coke can bring you out of ketosis yes, or delay you entering that state. I am unsure on the exact science (as always!) but I believe it is something to do with the acid.

It varies from person to person though. One of those things you don't need to worry about untul the weight loss slows IMO.


----------



## walks

WelshPatrick said:


> I read somewhere that drinking diet coke can bring you out of ketosis
> 
> If true how is this even possible?
> 
> Anyone got any views on this?


Not sure if its true, but i have read that the citric acid may kick you out.


----------



## Patsy

walks said:


> Not sure if its true, but i have read that the citric acid may kick you out.


What about drinking normal orange squash mate (no added sugar)?


----------



## hilly

no mate because it has carbs in. you canot hve any direct carbs its that simple NO carbs lol. just from peanut butter and chicken and 200g broccoli i get 25g of carbs.

drink water.


----------



## hackskii

WelshPatrick said:


> I read somewhere that drinking diet coke can bring you out of ketosis
> 
> If true how is this even possible?
> 
> Anyone got any views on this?


I think there is a responce from insulin as the body thinks something sweet is comming down the pipe.

I think there is some responce from insulin, that would kick you out.


----------



## Patsy

hilly2008 said:


> no mate because it has carbs in. you canot hve any direct carbs its that simple NO carbs lol. just from peanut butter and chicken and 200g broccoli i get 25g of carbs.
> 
> drink water.


Hilly mate the squash i been drinking is robinsons and it got next to zero carbs

Not a problem drinking water but it gets a bit bland after a while!


----------



## hilly

check to see what sweetner is in the squash mate all carbs do add up eventually.


----------



## Patsy

hilly2008 said:


> check to see what sweetner is in the squash mate all carbs do add up eventually.


Its 0.7g per 100ml

What sweetener am i essentially looking out for mate?

I read on another forum about not being able to have splenda in coffee


----------



## walks

WelshPatrick said:


> Its 0.7g per 100ml
> 
> What sweetener am i essentially looking out for mate?
> 
> I read on another forum about not being able to have splenda in coffee


Sugar, malto, gulcose.

Some sweetners are fine but i cant remember them off the top of my head.

Basic rule is, if its got carbs then its no good (the only exception is natty peanut butter)


----------



## LittleChris

I used flavoured squashes all the way through the diet and it didn't affect me.

Don't get too hung up on the details, there is no need to overcomplicate this diet.


----------



## Patsy

LittleChris said:


> I used flavoured squashes all the way through the diet and it didn't affect me.
> 
> Don't get too hung up on the details, there is no need to overcomplicate this diet.


As i thought mate

I started this diet today and its pretty straight forward

Im putting flax/pumkin/sunflower seeds in my first shake instead of peanut butter and having the peanut butter whey shake last thing before bed

Ill see how i get on after a week and report back


----------



## DRED

i am drinking sugar free vimto....


----------



## DRED

delts/tri,s

fst-7 db side laterals

db rear delts over incline bench 3x12/10/8

cable rear delts 2x15

fst-7 machine press

tri,s

tricep dip machine 3x12

v.bar press downs 3x12

rope press downs 3x12

feeling better today,felt drained after my cheat meal :thumb:


----------



## silverback79

hilly2008 said:


> check to see what sweetner is in the squash mate all carbs do add up eventually.


As long as you don't go over board with the squash I think its fine. I dont think it would throw you off the diet or drinking diet coke.

If the diet stops working look at the amount of protein your taking. I think less protein if your a natural body builder and about 40-45 grams if your on the gear. remember though the nuts contain protein so you can give or take 10grams of protein per meal.

I do 1 hour of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. I take GH, every other day 8iu in the morning, and glutamine, blackcoffee, BCAA, L-Carnatine, and clen before I do cardio too.

I do cardio also 45mins straight after I work out. I do cardio 7 days a week.

I have been doing the diet for a week now, and had a treat meal Sunday just gone. I did have too much carbs before I started the diet so I was holding alot of water for nearly a week.

Also gear wise I am on tren, deca ( from last week, I was on enanthate 3 x a week), Winny 50mg ED, proviron 50mg ED. I do have weekends off the gear.

I am very lean at the moment but seeing if I can get tighter.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi are we aloud anything in our cheat meal, bye this i mean sweets or chocolate, cause i have my eyes on a bag of maltesers this weekend lol after my pizza obviously.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi one thing i have been thinking about even tho there's no carbs is it a bad idea to have your last meal after a certain time of night say for instance 10pm, and you were having it cause you were on shifts thanks.


----------



## winger

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi one thing i have been thinking about even tho there's no carbs is it a bad idea to have your last meal after a certain time of night say for instance 10pm, and you were having it cause you were on shifts thanks.


Doesn't matter as long as you didn't exceed your daily allotment of calories.

For sweeteners I would use Splenda and stevia only.


----------



## walks

WelshPatrick said:


> As i thought mate
> 
> I started this diet today and its pretty straight forward
> 
> Im putting flax/pumkin/sunflower seeds in my first shake instead of peanut butter and having the peanut butter whey shake last thing before bed
> 
> Ill see how i get on after a week and report back


The reason for the PB is the fat but also the small amount of carbs in it aswell


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi vince is it ok to take creatine on this diet because because drinking loads of water anyway thanks.


----------



## hilly

yes its fine


----------



## SOUTHMAN

should one take some glutamine before cardio? to stop catabolism

Im not really convinced glutamine does an awful lot


----------



## hilly

i have started taking 7g l glutamine and 5g bcaa before cardio. i have never noticed any benefit from either to be honest but like to use them while dieting.

plus i read bcaa contains leucine which can help you get into ketosis. could be wrong like but i did read it somewere last week,


----------



## Miller

Iv been using this inbetween lifting and cardio

http://monstersupplements.com/store/p/3139/1/MET-RX-Amino-Liquid-473ml.html

I just put it in a 100ml plastic test tube (like a protein slam container), add water and knock it back

tastes god awful but who cares ey


----------



## hackskii

Some caffeene will help here, you will spare muscle and slip into fat burning faster.


----------



## DRED

will green tea tablets work for fat lose?


----------



## hilly

holland and barrat do a green tea plus tablet on offer at the moment dred that has 200mg of caffeine in as well as green tea. 60 for 3 quid. i posted a thread about them in supplement section maybe worth a look.


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> will green tea tablets work for fat lose?


Very subtly, heck ice water probably would work better, that burns about 150 calories per gallon of ice water.

Fiber too, 35 grams of fiber burns 250 calories..........

Porn raises LH levels in men..............................OOPSIE, diffrent topic..... :lol:


----------



## winger

hackskii said:


> Very subtly, heck ice water probably would work better, that burns about 150 calories per gallon of ice water.
> 
> Fiber too, 35 grams of fiber burns 250 calories..........
> 
> Porn raises LH levels in men..............................OOPSIE, diffrent topic..... :lol:


No wonder B.O.I. is so successful for rehab on the HPTA..lol


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys just wondered what you thought of cycling for cardio, do you think it is a good form of cardio, not stationary cycle actual push bike any advice welcome thanks.


----------



## winger

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi guys just wondered what you thought of cycling for cardio, do you think it is a good form of cardio, not stationary cycle actual push bike any advice welcome thanks.


Any cardio is good. Think of it like training. Your heart rate is the weight on the bar, higher heart rate, more calories burned in a shorter period of time.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys just wondered what you thought of cycling for cardio, do you think it is a good form of cardio, not stationary cycle, actual push bike thanks.

question for hackski, how could you take in 35g of fibre mate am using PH but that wont give me that much thanks.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi winger but i thought we wern't meant to push it too hard just steady cardio in order to save muscle thanks


----------



## winger

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi guys just wondered what you thought of cycling for cardio, do you think it is a good form of cardio, not stationary cycle, actual push bike thanks.
> 
> question for hackski, how could you take in 35g of fibre mate am using PH but that wont give me that much thanks.


Just eat 5 servings of low glycimic veggies and you will be fine on the Keto diet.

I got to give DaveP some credit, he repackaged a diet from 100 years ago and made it presentable. Kudos I'm yours..lol


----------



## Miller

when eating eggs and chicken, i used a bit of ketchup the last time I ran this diet, some mayo with my chicken now and again

i realise this isnt the way to go now with the amount of sugar in them (4g per 15ml!!) but does anyone have any decent substitute ideas?


----------



## Rudedog

I'm gonna switch my cutting diet to this as of Monday.

I weigh 158lbs @ 5foot8.

Meal 1. 4 eggs+spoonfull of fish omega 3

Meal 2 Whey shake(2 scoops) with TBSP of natural peanut butter

Meal 3 Chicken breast 150g 1TBSP of hellmans light mayo and olive oil

Meal 4 Same as meal 2

Meal 5 mackaral 150g and 1 TBSP of ligh mayo

Meal 6 Whey shake(2 scoops) with TBSP of NPB and spoonfull of omega 3.

Is this ok?

What supps should I be taking with this diet?

Thanks


----------



## hilly

you need 1.5g of protein and 0.5 g of fat per pound of bodyweight for this diet. work it out. no more than 30g carbs.

as long as you get those macros and are getting 6-9grams of omega 3 and epo you are good to go.

I use soy sauce and lea perrins for flavour.


----------



## silverback79

I swear by BCAA and Glumatine before cardio in the morning. Its easy to loss muscle when dieting so you want to take BCAA and Glutamine to stop muscle break down and aid recovery. Strength is also preserved to an extent when using these supplements.


----------



## silverback79

I use salt free spices on my eggs and chicken. Tastes much better!!!


----------



## hilly

i also take bcaa and l glutamine 5-10 mins pre cardio


----------



## philip41

Just a thought for those of you running this diet and taking glutamine, I have copied and pasted below what Lyle Mcdonald has written.

It is interesting reading, to me anyways.

"Taken from the Ketogenic diet"

Glutamine

Glutamine is one of the most popular supplements on the market right now. Glutamine is

typically considered a non-essential amino acid (AA) since it can be made within the body.

However, in times of high stress, it may become essential (2). Glutamine is involved in

maintaining the immune system (1) and low glutamine levels have been linked to overtraining in

endurance athletes (1). Weight training is a form of stress and, although not directly studied,

glutamine supplements have been suggested to help deal with the stress of training.

A majority of glutamine research has focused on its effect in critically ill individuals and

burn patients. It is a major mistake to extrapolate from pathologically ill patients to healthy,

weight training athletes although many authors in the field of nutrition have made that mistake.

Outside of its effects on immune system function, oral glutamine has also been shown to

elevate growth hormone levels in the bloodstream, which may be useful for fat loss (1). The

primary problem with oral glutamine supplementation is that glutamine is a major metabolic fuel

for the small intestine. As well, high doses of glutamine tend to be absorbed by the kidney with

the end result being that little of the glutamine ingested actually gets into the muscles (2).

A possible solution is to take glutamine in small doses throughout the day. Doses of 2

grams may not activate absorption by the kidney (1) and it should be possible to keep blood

glutamine levels high by taking it in this fashion.

However, a little known effect of glutamine is that it inhibits ketogenesis in the liver (2).

*Many individuals have found that glutamine supplementation prevents them from establishing *

*
ketosis.* However others have not found this to be the case and, as with many supplements,

experimentation is the key. Glutamine probably has its greatest potential during the carb-up

period of the CKD.

I was actually going to start taking this prior to training, not to sure now, Hmm


----------



## hilly

i have been taking 7g glutamine every day this week. i will check ketostixs in the morning and post results here.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

As much as i admire and respect DP (i know i am going to get shot for this lol but here it goes........) What you have to remember is this is just a ketosis diet and as already stated the original and IMPO the best keto diet is the Atkins diet who covers every aspect of from only 20g of carbs (the induction) all the way to finally the amount of carbs that you can have for CCLM which is the amount of carbs you can eat before gaining fat/weight and for each person this is different!

What you have got to remember is DP is a very very intelligent man and also a good business man as this diet without a doubt works as this thread shows but if you want to tailor it to your needs etc then what have you got to do, yep you got it you have got to pay him to tailor it to your needs which i am not knocking him in any way at all as it is very smart and at the end of the day the guy is in this game and it is his busness and as he said on his radio show of no bull he makes dam good money doing it which is fair enough!

My point here is guys dont over complicate things, i personally wouldnt like ot get my carbs from PB but i would like it from veggies as i have veggies for my evening meal and i also have salad for my lunch, i again also only eat 3 meals a day which has also been proven in studies does not effect insulin levels at all if you do not over eat etc and if i am hungry in between i will have something to eat which is usually either just protein or protein and fat as remember as well that too much protein can throw you out of ketosis!

I personally am doing a cross between then atkins and the DP diet which is better for me and my BF is going down on it but my weight is not but i think that this is due to me taking dbol and doing weights!

Just wanted to add my thoughts on this and also dred glad ot see your doing so well mate i have been following this from start all the way to here!


----------



## hilly

Just for information purposes and kit agrees that these diets need to be adjusted for each individual i find 300g of protein does not throw me out of ketosis but have read somewere it did with 1 or 2 people and they had to reduce this.


----------



## winger

Chris4Pez said:


> As much as i admire and respect DP (i know i am going to get shot for this lol but here it goes........) What you have to remember is this is just a ketosis diet and as already stated the original and IMPO the best keto diet is the Atkins diet who covers every aspect of from only 20g of carbs (the induction) all the way to finally the amount of carbs that you can have for CCLM which is the amount of carbs you can eat before gaining fat/weight and for each person this is different!
> 
> What you have got to remember is DP is a very very intelligent man and also a good business man as this diet without a doubt works as this thread shows but if you want to tailor it to your needs etc then what have you got to do, yep you got it you have got to pay him to tailor it to your needs which i am not knocking him in any way at all as it is very smart and at the end of the day the guy is in this game and it is his busness and as he said on his radio show of no bull he makes dam good money doing it which is fair enough!
> 
> My point here is guys dont over complicate things, i personally wouldnt like ot get my carbs from PB but i would like it from veggies as i have veggies for my evening meal and i also have salad for my lunch, i again also only eat 3 meals a day which has also been proven in studies does not effect insulin levels at all if you do not over eat etc and if i am hungry in between i will have something to eat which is usually either just protein or protein and fat as remember as well that too much protein can throw you out of ketosis!
> 
> I personally am doing a cross between then atkins and the DP diet which is better for me and my BF is going down on it but my weight is not but i think that this is due to me taking dbol and doing weights!
> 
> Just wanted to add my thoughts on this and also dred glad ot see your doing so well mate i have been following this from start all the way to here!


Very nice Chris.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Thanks mate its just IMPO but i think that too many people are giving all the credit to DP, when what they have to bare in mind is this diet was out way before he was even born and tbh is the bodies most preferred way of using energy as it goes back to cavemen days!


----------



## DRED

i am booked in for a blood test next week,just to see if my cholesterol has gone up...

it was at an average level last time...


----------



## winger

DRED said:


> i am booked in for a blood test next week,just to see if my cholesterol has gone up...
> 
> it was at an average level last time...


If I remember correctly it will go up then go down. It should get lower than it was before you started.


----------



## philip41

Chris4Pez said:


> As much as i admire and respect DP (i know i am going to get shot for this lol but here it goes........) What you have to remember is this is just a ketosis diet and as already stated the original and IMPO the best keto diet is the Atkins diet who covers every aspect of from only 20g of carbs (the induction) all the way to finally the amount of carbs that you can have for CCLM which is the amount of carbs you can eat before gaining fat/weight and for each person this is different!
> 
> What you have got to remember is DP is a very very intelligent man and also a good business man as this diet without a doubt works as this thread shows but if you want to tailor it to your needs etc then what have you got to do, yep you got it you have got to pay him to tailor it to your needs which i am not knocking him in any way at all as it is very smart and at the end of the day the guy is in this game and it is his busness and as he said on his radio show of no bull he makes dam good money doing it which is fair enough!
> 
> My point here is guys dont over complicate things, i personally wouldnt like ot get my carbs from PB but i would like it from veggies as i have veggies for my evening meal and i also have salad for my lunch, i again also only eat 3 meals a day which has also been proven in studies does not effect insulin levels at all if you do not over eat etc and if i am hungry in between i will have something to eat which is usually either just protein or protein and fat as remember as well that too much protein can throw you out of ketosis!
> 
> I personally am doing a cross between then atkins and the DP diet which is better for me and my BF is going down on it but my weight is not but i think that this is due to me taking dbol and doing weights!
> 
> Just wanted to add my thoughts on this and also dred glad ot see your doing so well mate i have been following this from start all the way to here!


Totally agree and well put.

I am actually not following the DP but am running a CKD, this works well for me, i have a carb up once a week but only for 1 day, anymore and the results slow and i feel like poo the next day or so.


----------



## hackskii

Keto diet was made or suggested by a guy back in 1862 by William Banting,

Here was his diet back in the 1860's he was put on by a Dr. Harvey:

HARVEY'S DIET PLAN

BREAKFAST: 4-5 ounces beef, mutton, kidneys, broiled fish, bacon or cold meat of any kind except pork,1 a large cup of tea (without milk or sugar), a little biscuit or one ounce of dry toast.

DINNER: 5-6 ounces of any fish except salmon, any meat except pork, any vegetable except potato, one ounce of dry toast, fruit of any pudding,2 any kind of poultry or game, and 2-3 glasses of good claret, sherry or Madeira (champagne, port, beer were forbidden).

TEA: 2-3 ounces fruit, a rusk or two and a cup of tea without milk or sugar.

SUPPER: 3-4 ounces of meat or fish, similar to dinner, with a glass or two of claret.

NIGHTCAP:Tumbler of grog: gin, whisky or brandy (without sugar) or a glass or two of claret or sherry.

The "Banting Diet" became the center of a bitter controversy and Banting's papers and book were ridiculed and distorted.

Even to this day like Banting, Atkins takes a hit.

They used to treat children with ketogenic diets to treat epilepsy 100 years ago and had them on them for two years.

Still used today when they can't use drugs alone to stop epileptic seizures. That's right to this day medically used to treat epilepsy.

Ripped this one off from toxictoffee.

from lyles book

Metabolic state Ketone body concentration (mmol/dl)

Mixed diet 0.1

Ketosis 0.2

Fasting 2-3 days 1

Post-exercise Up to 2

Fasting 1 week 5

Ketogenic diet 5-6

Fasting 3-4 weeks 6-8

Ketoacidosis 8+

Diabetic ketoacidosis Up to 25


----------



## DRED

hackskii said:


> Keto diet was made or suggested by a guy back in 1860, I will see if I can dig that one up.
> 
> They used to treat children with ketogenic diets to treat epilepsy 100 years ago and had them on them for two years.
> 
> Still used today when they can't use drugs alone to stop epileptic seizures. That's right to this day medically used to treat epilepsy.


if you have info about ketogenic diets for treating epileptic seizures i would like to read about that scott.

a friend of mine had a nasty car accident and now suffers with seizures :thumb:


----------



## DRED

*back/traps*

giant set....wide grip pull downs/wide grip low rows/pull downs behind neck/strait arm pull downs with tricep rope *3 sets*

*fst-7x10 *rows sitting down in front of the lat pull down

*traps*

db shrugs 3x15

cable single arm shrugs 2x15


----------



## Miller

what do you reckon the max carbs you can get away with

I was totting it up and think I may be around 30g


----------



## DRED

Miller said:


> what do you reckon the max carbs you can get away with
> 
> I was totting it up and think I may be around 30g


you only have the carbs that are in the pb and the veggies...which probably adds up to your 30grms


----------



## hilly

awesome post scott


----------



## Rudedog

Does the protein shake have to be whey isolate or can I use whey protein?

What's the reasoning of waiting 12 days before a cheat meal the reason I ask is I was gonna switch my cutting diet to this Sunday but my dads 50th is Friday and were going out for an Indian shall I start the diet or put it off for a week?


----------



## Miller

ye Iv been having 3 x 1.5 scoops of whey a day at 3g per scoop

so that add's 13.5g onto my totals


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Rudedog said:


> Does the protein shake have to be whey isolate or can I use whey protein?
> 
> What's the reasoning of waiting 12 days before a cheat meal the reason I ask is I was gonna switch my cutting diet to this Sunday but my dads 50th is Friday and were going out for an Indian shall I start the diet or put it off for a week?


I would personally wait mate but thats just me as when you will be slipping into ketosis you will bounce yourself back out!


----------



## hilly

you cannot have a cheat for the first 12 days. carbs are to be kett under 30 if your whey protein keeps it under that then its fine. if not find some other or get isolate.


----------



## winger

DRED said:


> if you have info about ketogenic diets for treating epileptic seizures i would like to read about that scott.
> 
> a friend of mine had a nasty car accident and now suffers with seizures :thumb:


There are so many links, click here.

I remember a special on T.V. about this. I think it was Steven Spielberg's son that had really bad seizures. The drugs didn't work, the Doctors were throwing their hands up and didn't know that to do.

Then some much older nurse found a diet that worked. If it wasn't for this nurse finding some ancient diet (that she remembered) it would have been lost.

It might have been Hoag or another very respectable hospital.

They put the son on the diet and no seizures.


----------



## DRED

nice one Winger :beer: :beer:


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys cheat meal tomorrow going to pizza hut can't wait, this diet is going well for me i have lost around 8 pounds not all muscle because the jeans are much looser round the waist, i think i am left with the stubborn fat now the sort of wobbly kind, don't know if this makes any sense but if i run like my finger along my stomach it's like ripples underneath, as if water underneath the skin, that's probably not a very good description but that was all i could really think of, is this stuff the hardest to remove, i went on a much more conventional diet before and in the end i was left with this wobbly stuff, i think i've been carrying this stuff since i was a teen, because i am not naturally lean, i have always had a small sort of pot belly that did get bigger from bulking, so i am basically trying to strip this last layer away that has been there for years, what i am trying to say is i have never had definition in my abs because of this extra layer, it's as if it was there as a defense, can i remove this stubborn layer cheers.


----------



## the_pit_bull

Hello all,

Im starting the dave palumbo ketosis diet on monday.

Can you tell me how important the cheat meal is?

Could you go for 12 weeks on a strict ketosis diet? Or is the cheat meal required once a week?

Thanks very much

Gaz


----------



## the_pit_bull

I got a link to the palumbos ketosis diet off here a few months back and there was no mention of a cheat meal. Ive just been reading this thread and seen that most people have one.

Is it once a week? High Carb?

Has anyone got a link to the dave palumbo diet being used here?

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

The cheat meal is important and let me explain quickly why rather than just saying DP said so, so you have to!

Basically what a Cheat meal does is shocks your metabolism and makes it so you dont platue on your diet and helps you keep losing weight, also it helps replace your glycogen levels within your body which are another inportant reason why you do it mate hope this helps (I didnt want to go into too much detail as there is no need to so i just left it basic hope you dont mid mate but atleast it gives you the rough idea)


----------



## the_pit_bull

Cheers chris. What cheat meal can you reccomend? Is it once per week?

Also how long is it 'safe' to do the ketosis diet for? I am thinking about doing it for 12 weeks.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Gaz what happens is you follow the diet strict for the 1st 2 weeks so that allows your body to go full into ketosis, then you can have your cheat meal and after that it is once a week and only for one meal which is you last meal so you are not tempted to have more!

The thing is with carbs is that they can be and are very addictive and will tell your brain that you want more so naturally you will feel hungry even when you are not as your brain is releasing faulse hunger signal so it can get more carbs thats why you have the meal last!


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Mate if you ask me how long it is safe to do ketosis for i would say as long as you do it properly you can follow it for a life time as described in the atkins book the only thing that you have to do is find a critical carb limit in which you will not gain weight, as in the DP diet am not really sure but i am sure as long as your doing it properly it wont cause any harm what so ever!

See what you have to realise is this is the bodies most favourite diet that it likes even though the brain thinks it likes carbs the body actually doesnt and its carbs that causes all these nasty things like obesity and also high LDL and heart troubles etc and how i can back this up is if you look at the mediteranian (sp) diet then you will see when they ate mainly fats and protein in the forms of fih etc they lived notoriously long lives but now they have got more of an europian (sp) diet e.g more carbs there has been more heath problems documented which relate to the ones we have had for years but they never got etc!


----------



## the_pit_bull

Okey doke cheers. Thats the info i was after.

Is 12 weeks about right to run this diet for?

Im planning on (hopefully) cutting down to see my abs, and see what lean mass ive got under this layer of fat. Then start a lean bulk. Is that a good plan? When i start lean bulking after the 12 weeks DP diet will i put alot of fat on because my body has finally got carbs?

EDITED TO SAY - WHEN I POSTED THIS I HADNT SEEN YOUR POST ABOVE.

THANKS AGAIN

GAZ


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Vince said:


> Those weren't my words!
> 
> I just said that if he wants to follow Palumbo's plan then he'll have to include a cheat meal as stated in previous posts...otherwise it wouldn't be Palumbo's diet anymore, simple as.


No mate that was not a blaze against you in fact the opposite as i think you are a great guy who knows his stuff and TBH i have nothing but respect for you but i was just explaining why rather than just pointing out that it was a DP diet and he says you have to and if you dont then it wont be his diet as even though this is true as you can appreciate this does not explain much to him on the reason why!

Sorry if it came across in the wrong context.

:beer:


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Mate what you have to remember is when you bulk you will always add some fat and i challenge anyone who says that they dont but the key is not to add too much fat!


----------



## the_pit_bull

OKay cool.

one step at a time anyway.

Ive gotta shift this fat once and for all. I started a cut before, just my own diet, and dropped 2 stone, but then christmas came and new year and ive struggled to get back into it and put about a stone back on.

So decided to give the DP diet a go and stick to it!

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## the_pit_bull

If people didnt ask questions then the forum would die.

Im sure 90% of the questions asked on this forum have been answered 'somewhere' on the internet before.

But i would prefer to have an answer directly off someone with experience than just sit searching through old posts.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## the_pit_bull

Okay cheers. Will do.


----------



## DRED

the_pit_bull said:


> I got a link to the palumbos ketosis diet off here a few months back and there was no mention of a cheat meal. Ive just been reading this thread and seen that most people have one.
> 
> Is it once a week? High Carb?
> 
> Has anyone got a link to the dave palumbo diet being used here?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> are you gonna follow the one for a 200lb man or 250lb man?
> 
> Gaz


----------



## the_pit_bull

I think its the one for a 200lb man im following...

8 am

5 whole omega 3 eggs

4 normal egg whites

10 am

50g Whey Protein

1 Tablespoon Natural Peanut Butter

1 pm

220g chicken with handful cashew nuts or almonds

4 pm

50g Whey Protein

1 Tablespoon Natural Peanut Butter

7.30 pm (Post Workout)

220g Salmon with a green salad and 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil.

11 pm

50g Whey Protein

1 Tablespoon Natural Peanut Butter

Does that look about right?

I currently weigh 195lb.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## DRED

thats the one mate,dont forget plenty of water....

are you taking fish oils and evening primrose oil?


----------



## hilly

the_pit_bull said:


> If people didnt ask questions then the forum would die.
> 
> Im sure 90% of the questions asked on this forum have been answered 'somewhere' on the internet before.
> 
> But i would prefer to have an answer directly off someone with experience than just sit searching through old posts.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gaz


yes mate but this thread is dave P thread and their is another i started slightly shorter that contains all the info you need and much more. It gets annoying for people when they keep repeating themselves because people dont want to spend the time reading the thread.

I have read several threads over 50 pages long to get the info required so i no people can do it if they want to


----------



## the_pit_bull

Cheers. Will be drinking just water throughout and plenty of it! I find it helps stop me feeling as hungry anyway when im filled with water.

Not looked into fish oils or evening primrose.

Any particular ones you can reccomend? What dosage and How often should these be taken? Are any multi vits required/reccomended?

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## hilly

you want omega 3 and evening primrose oil. doesnt matter about the make go to holland and barrat.

THIS HAS ALL BEEN COVER READ THE THREAD.


----------



## DRED

the_pit_bull said:


> Cheers. Will be drinking just water throughout and plenty of it! I find it helps stop me feeling as hungry anyway when im filled with water.
> 
> Not looked into fish oils or evening primrose.
> 
> Any particular ones you can reccomend? What dosage and How often should these be taken? Are any multi vits required/reccomended?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gaz


here is what i am following.....

For a 250lb+ man:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/T<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 2, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

Meal 3, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 4, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 5, 8oz STEAK with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL<o></o>

8OZ TURKEY<o></o>

8OZ PORK<o></o>

8OZ BEEF<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 6, 6 whole eggs/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O,3,6,9<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

SUPPS;<o></o>

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO 1000mg<o></o>

OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9 1000mg<o></o>

MULTI VIT/MV<o></o>

TRIB/T <o></o>

ZINC/Z 15mg<o></o>

PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH 1000mg<o></o>


----------



## the_pit_bull

Its all well and good saying read the thread. But it will take someone 30 seconds to answer my question. It will take me hours to search through the information. I dont mind doing research but this is a live forum, why spend an hour hunting through posts when someone is online and knows the answers to my question.

Fair enough if someone is asking for VERY basic advice, then read first.

If someone feels my questions have been asked before and dont want to repeat themselves then they can just not reply, its very simple. If somone who knows the answer to my question is kind enough to reply then i have a result!

Cheers


----------



## the_pit_bull

Thank you very much for the reply DRED.

I will get Fish Oils, Evening Primrose and Multi Vits tonight ready for monday.

Will do some research on PSYLlIUM HUSK now mate, not sure what it is.

Thanks again

Gaz


----------



## DRED

the_pit_bull said:


> Thank you very much for the reply DRED.
> 
> I will get Fish Oils, Evening Primrose and Multi Vits tonight ready for monday.
> 
> Will do some research on PSYLlIUM HUSK now mate, not sure what it is.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Gaz


lol mate i did not know what it was either,but its is fibre...

stops you getting plugged up on all these eggs...


----------



## mazarmy

EPO- now many women use that for breast pain,period pain and other womenly problems....not sure why you need it! also think its for arthiritis and exzema!


----------



## the_pit_bull

cheers fellas.

been really helpful, i knew i would need to supplement the diet with a few things really, just didnt know where to start.

Thanks alot


----------



## DRED

mazarmy said:


> EPO- now many women use that for breast pain,period pain and other womenly problems....not sure why you need it! also think its for arthiritis and exzema!


EPO is an omega 6 rich efa (particularly high in GLA)


----------



## mazarmy

so actually im getting other benefits taking this?

mind you im also taking USN Multiplex...that has just about everything vitamin/mineral wise in it,highly recommend this! ok gone of subject now sorry!


----------



## DRED

mazarmy said:


> so actually im getting other benefits taking this?
> 
> mind you im also taking USN Multiplex...that has just about everything vitamin/mineral wise in it,highly recommend this! ok gone of subject now sorry!


usn multiplex is a multi vitamin...

evening primrose oil and omega 3 caps are *efa* so you could run both together...


----------



## mazarmy

ahhh so actually it makes sense to take epo all the time then! yes i see how this works good idea ta!


----------



## Fatbastard

Psyllium husks are awesome. flavourless and a super-fibre. cheap as chips too

Can be used to thicken protein rich DIY deserts and shakes. I love the husks - 2 servings (tablespoon each) per day. dont go over board tho or you will end up with very "loose stools" more commonly known as the ****s!!! Less is more..

SD wrote a thread on them and recommended them to me... i cant praise them highly enough


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

the_pit_bull said:


> Its all well and good saying read the thread. But it will take someone 30 seconds to answer my question. It will take me hours to search through the information. I dont mind doing research but this is a live forum, why spend an hour hunting through posts when someone is online and knows the answers to my question.
> 
> Fair enough if someone is asking for VERY basic advice, then read first.
> 
> If someone feels my questions have been asked before and dont want to repeat themselves then they can just not reply, its very simple. If somone who knows the answer to my question is kind enough to reply then i have a result!
> 
> Cheers


Mate i was on your side as i am all for helping people out but the way your coming across is that you cant be ****d to put in the effort to read the threads when i have like others spent hours upon end on this site and others reading threads and learning so this attitude i dont like!

I dont know if you meant to come across as that is the case but thats what it sounded like to me and personally i dont like that!

I would make your intentions more clear mate as trust me when i say if you cant be ****d to even read the threads likle the rest of is then you wont get any hekp of any of the guys sorry mate but why should we do all the work for you!

Sorry if thats not what you meant but thats how it sounded!!!


----------



## the_pit_bull

My reply wasnt aimed at you chris. It was more to Vince, he just basically told me to go and read through the threads.

Im not lazy, and i spend hours doing research. And i appreciate that you took the time to reply to me and offer me advice.

I just dont like it when i ask a valid question and get told to go away and read because its been covered before. You didnt do that, you answered my questions and im grateful for that.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## hilly

no offence mate but if you type dave palumbo's diet into google you will find all the info you have asked about in the first couple of threads.

then theirs 2 different threads on this board with all the info twice over. you cant have done hours research on it.


----------



## DRED

wahooooooooooooooo just noticed i got a gold star


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys just wanted to know what you think is the best way to check body fat ie calliper tape measure machines ect, just got mine checked at my local gym the guy took my weight then measured my forearm waist just above navel, then waist higher up, and lastly hips typed the measurements into the computer, and in the end i ended up with 21% body fat i nearly **** myself is this an accurate way of doing it lol.

I have my own callipers, and try the three site method,1:chest 2:just above the knee, and 3:waist just above the hip bone but it is quite hard to do on your own, just wanted to hear any opinions, but i seriously don't think i am 21% lol.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

DRED said:


> wahooooooooooooooo just noticed i got a gold star


Same here mate lol

Congrats


----------



## hackskii

Chris4Pez said:


> Same here mate lol
> 
> Congrats


I hit both of you guys, for you Chris for the keto information, and for dred posting the 200 pound diet information so the other guy could find it and use the information.

Both posts were worthy of reps.....Cheers


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Thanks scott


----------



## winger

hackskii said:


> I hit both of you guys, for you Chris for the keto information, and for dred posting the 200 pound diet information so the other guy could find it and use the information.
> 
> Both posts were worthy of reps.....Cheers


We have two new sheriff's in town...lol

That was Scotts subtle way of saying, "HEY EVERYBODY PLEASE REP ME"....LOL Just kidding Hackinspank. 

I think I might start one of those I love you threads....lol


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

I always give you hacks bro love!!!!


----------



## hackskii

winger said:


> I think I might start one of those I love you threads....lol


You should, take a chip off the ol block......... :thumb:


----------



## The Bam

DRED said:


> wahooooooooooooooo just noticed i got a gold star


Yeah you fu*king did !!!

nice mate

hope your good


----------



## DRED

i am gonna bin goin on the scales as from this week...

another pound of this week,which i am pleased about....

family are seeing the weight loss now,my stomache is flattening out as before it stuck out from just below my chest,i feel fitter when i am walking the dog....

i have a spring in my step which i have not had for a long time...

i am still of the juice,but i am having a battle with myself about that shrinking feeling...

but its just in my head,i look in the mirror and i am getting deffinition in my legs and arms...

i am ****ed of with myself as over the years i have had a **** diet and now realising i could of been bigger and better if i had done it properly...

i believed bulking was eating anything and everything...DOH how wrong was i!!!!


----------



## SOUTHMAN

i think the small feeling goes away when u look in the mirror and get them im sexy feeling! could be just me though

Thanks to vince for suggesting lowering the protein and fat slightly and the fat is falling away now so reps!

My breath stinks so im trying to drink loads of water!

Im going to really enjoy being lean i think!


----------



## warmy18

What peanut butter brand do you recommend whilst on the DP diet. Going to start mine soon and I need to stock up.

Thanks


----------



## SOUTHMAN

meridian or whole earth

Meridan comes from holland and barret

whole earth comes from tesco

I like both and switch it up regularly


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

DRED said:


> i am gonna bin goin on the scales as from this week...
> 
> another pound of this week,which i am pleased about....
> 
> family are seeing the weight loss now,my stomache is flattening out as before it stuck out from just below my chest,i feel fitter when i am walking the dog....
> 
> i have a spring in my step which i have not had for a long time...
> 
> i am still of the *juice*,but i am having a battle with myself about that shrinking feeling...
> 
> but its just in my head,i look in the mirror and i am getting deffinition in my legs and arms...
> 
> i am ****ed of with myself as over the years i have had a **** diet and now realising i could of been bigger and better if i had done it properly...
> 
> i believed bulking was eating anything and everything...DOH how wrong was i!!!!


What Juice you on mate as i am on dbol along with test cyp and i have been doing a diet which is a cross between this and atkins and tbh i have been losing body fat but looks like i have been gainin weight lol!

All's i know though is my lifts have gone astronomical and i keep hitting PB's so everything is all good


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

sorry just read it properly lol and it says your still off the juice sorry my mistake


----------



## DRED

Chris4Pez said:


> sorry just read it properly lol and it says your still off the juice sorry my mistake


lol mate :beer:


----------



## hackskii

Dont push it too much chris, you may get an injury......


----------



## DRED

had my cheat meal or should i say feast....i am finding it hard to keep my eyes open,must be all those carbs


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

hackskii said:


> Dont push it too much chris, you may get an injury......


Dont worry mate i will try not to but like you keep saying i have to enjoy the gear and the effects of it but at the same time i know that these effects wont last thats why i have to get as strong as possible while on it then when i come off even uf my strength goes down then i will still be more stronger and lift more than i did before i went on it!


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi dred mate i had my cheat meal too, what did you have, i had pizza and ice cream, around 9pm, hilly you say you start eating carbs from 9pm onwards till you go to bed, i just wanted to know how many meals you would fit in till bed mate and what kind of stuff do you eat, cause i had a medium size tuna pizza and ice cream and was pretty much stuffed after that, but the one thing that was worrying me was had i topped up on enough carbs for the week to come, because it is hard to get allot of carbs in with the one meal, and i think in the DP threads it said to try and take in up to 500g of carbs, cheers.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi dred mate i had my cheat meal too, what did you have, i had pizza and ice cream, around 9pm, hilly you say you start eating carbs from 9pm onwards till you go to bed, i just wanted to know how many meals you would fit in till bed mate and what kind of stuff do you eat, cause i had a medium size tuna pizza and ice cream and was pretty much stuffed after that, but the one thing that was worrying me was had i topped up on enough carbs for the week to come, because it is hard to get allot of carbs in with the one meal, and i think in the DP threads it said to try and take in up to 500g of carbs, cheers.


meat feast pizza meduim

onion rings 5

potatoe wedges small bowl

garlic dough balls 5

garlic mushrooms 3

gypsy tart small one

can of coke

SLEPT LIKE A BABY :thumbup1:


----------



## DRED

Greekgoddess said:


> Dred I am so pleased you are doing so well on the diet. It's wonderful when you find a diet you can stick to that actually works well. I am looking forward to seeing everyone's updated photos on this thread.


thanks gg :thumb:


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

yeah mate you give people who find diets hard a chance and believe me that there are people who cant stick to diets as i use to be one of them!

Keep up the good work mate!


----------



## winger

DRED said:


> meat feast pizza meduim
> 
> onion rings 5
> 
> potatoe wedges small bowl
> 
> garlic dough balls 5
> 
> garlic mushrooms 3
> 
> gypsy tart small one
> 
> can of coke
> 
> SLEPT LIKE A BABY :thumbup1:


I almost got wood. That sounds sooooo goood.

Damn why did I read that cheat post, now I want some pizza and potatoes. :whistling:

Look at Dreds control, only had a small gypsy tart...lol


----------



## DRED

winger said:


> I almost got wood. That sounds sooooo goood.
> 
> Damn why did I read that cheat post, now I want some pizza and potatoes. :whistling:
> 
> Look at Dreds control, only had a small gypsy tart...lol


winger if they had had large on the gypsy tart i would of had one :thumb:

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## gym rat

awww mate your cheat sounds awesome, im so fcuking hungry, n another note nice work on the weight loss, was always abit sceptical of the P diet, but def gona give it a whirl, all the best mate and keep up the hard work


----------



## DRED

gym rat said:


> awww mate your cheat sounds awesome, im so fcuking hungry, n another note nice work on the weight loss, was always abit sceptical of the P diet, but def gona give it a whirl, all the best mate and keep up the hard work


thanks gym rat :thumb:


----------



## MissBC

Im feeling a tad horrid atm think it was a result of my cheat yesterday!!!! Head hurts (which i got when i started this diet, but only lasted a day) but im just trying to drink loads and forget about it!! I think i fall back into keto pretty quick cause my cheats arent really that full on!!

Im starting 1-1 this week, one pro/fat one pro/veg

Had a bit of a plateau last week so stepping it up a bit!! Changing the diet a tad, upping the cardio and bit too!!

I have a few questions if anyone wants to answer

What was the outcome of the sugar free squash or diet drink debate that was going on in here?? YES or NO?? I just struggle to drink 5 plain water!!

Anyone come across any info on how to come into comp time on this diet?? I am going to try and hunt around for some info now!!

Also i LOVE the fact that hack said macadamia nuts are better for this diet cause OMFG i love them!! brought 2 bags from tesco today, the natural ones, and i just stuck them in a tupperware container with a little salt!! SOOOOOOOO DAM GOOD!!

and lastly, i was thinking of dropping my cheat meals all together for the next 10 weeks, good idea or bad! Is it going to be detrimental to not have them??


----------



## Patsy

I started this diet 8 days ago and im drinking sugar free squash

Not a problem imo, im losing weight quite rapidly

I found water to be too bland to drink all the time if i were to stick to it!

So to answer your question, Yes, its fine.


----------



## MissBC

WelshPatrick said:


> I started this diet 8 days ago and im drinking sugar free squash
> 
> Not a problem imo, im losing weight quite rapidly
> 
> I found water to be too bland to drink all the time if i were to stick to it!
> 
> So to answer your question, Yes, its fine.


spose im just being pedantic as i dont wanna risk anything.... i have only 10 weeks left and if it will be better without i will leave it out!! Hence why i asked if it at all could be detrimental to the specifics of the diet!


----------



## DRED

i am drinking sugar free vimto....you have to check what sweetners are bein used...

when is your show?

if you carry on loosing weight by upping cardio and changing your diet slightly dont drop the cheat yet....you should save that for later.


----------



## MissBC

DRED said:


> i am drinking sugar free vimto....you have to check what sweetners are bein used...
> 
> when is your show?
> 
> if you carry on loosing weight by upping cardio and changing your diet slightly dont drop the cheat yet....you should save that for later.


ahhh ok ill check, are there good and bad sweetners?

Show is in May. I may think about the cheat, ill see how the change in diet and cardio goes this week if good ill have a cheat next sunday if not so good ill leave it out!!


----------



## DRED

i read it somewhere about the sweetners,i will see if i can find it for you...


----------



## winger

I have a buddy that started the keto diet and he drank lots of beer before the diet. On the diet he switched to hard alcohol and diet Dr. Pepper and still got into ketosis.

MissBC on your cheat day that you don't want to have why not fill up on veggies? Eat some steamed broccoli and cauliflower with butter and cheese.

Oh man that sounds good.


----------



## MissBC

winger said:


> I have a buddy that started the keto diet and he drank lots of beer before the diet. On the diet he switched to hard alcohol and diet Dr. Pepper and still got into ketosis.
> 
> MissBC on your cheat day that you don't want to have why not fill up on veggies? Eat some steamed broccoli and cauliflower with butter and cheese.
> 
> Oh man that sounds good.


its not like i have really been having bad cheats though, ususally nandos and fruit (grapes, cherries etc) and the occasional chocolate hahahaha so if i was going to have something id still have nandos etc as its just chicken and a few carbs!!


----------



## winger

MissBC said:


> its not like i have really been having bad cheats though, ususally nandos and fruit (grapes, cherries etc) and the occasional chocolate hahahaha so if i was going to have something id still have nandos etc as its just chicken and a few carbs!!


Your not cheating that much then. If you really much cheat, hook up with another bloke, now that's cheating...lol


----------



## MissBC

winger said:


> Your not cheating that much then. If you really much cheat, hook up with another bloke, now that's cheating...lol


hahahahahahahahah you offering winger hahahahahaha :tongue:


----------



## winger

MissBC said:


> hahahahahahahahah you offering winger hahahahahaha :tongue:


Hell yea, but I don't want to come on too strong cause I just run them off that way...lol

So no.


----------



## MissBC

winger said:


> Hell yea, but I don't want to come on too strong cause I just run them off that way...lol
> 
> So no.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

well i was out at the beginning with your brother cause i dont have an over grown lady garden


----------



## anabolic ant

winger said:


> Your not cheating that much then. If you really much cheat, hook up with another bloke, now that's cheating...lol


winger you kill me man...but i cant rep you for that,cos i'm all out of reps to serve!!!

(sorry to hijack thread,winger and i have an outstanding game of rep tennis going on)

high to all working hard on their keto diets,hang on in there...your looking good!!!


----------



## winger

MissBC said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> well i was out at the beginning with your brother cause i dont have an over grown lady garden


We both like them like that so just let it grow and I will sit around holding my breath.


anabolic ant said:


> winger you kill me man...but i cant rep you for that,cos i'm all out of reps to serve!!!
> 
> (sorry to hijack thread,winger and i have an outstanding game of rep tennis going on)
> 
> high to all working hard on their keto diets,hang on in there...your looking good!!!


Life is too short to not laugh. Thanks Big AA.

Yea congrats on all you bastards that are loosing more than I. :cursing:


----------



## gibbsy07

Vince said:


> POPPA BEAR - Interesting article but, as mentioned, not relevant to this diet. In the article the reference is towards a 1 to 2 day carb load, on this diet is only 1 meal...and that will not throw you out of ketosis once your body is well used to it.
> 
> HACK - as mentioned in my previous post, pro/veg days will not throw you out of ketosis: first the body will use dietary fat reserves (to deplete these might take yup to 48hrs) then will turn to fat stored in the body to use as energy, so up to 5 pro/veg days will still see you in ketosis. I've checked last time i've done it, after 3 pro/veg days (morning of 4th day) i was still deep in ketosis.
> 
> Now lets not forget this i a trick that will only be used towards the end of the diet (i.e closer to competition) to get rid of the stubborn fat, the bulk of it will be burned on pro/fat days.
> 
> As for roasted nuts - are not suggested since the cooking altered the oil chain, same as don't cook your olive oil.


Hi,there seems to be mixed opinions on here about cheat meals kicking you out of ketosis, hackski said that it was possible for diet coke to kick you out because of the sweetnes on the tongue, and a while back gg said she was slipping out of ketosis if she had a cheat meal, beacause when she was about to go back in she was getting sore joints, but if you were using another diet back then gg i am sorry for using you as an example, but i would just like to hear other guys opinions on this thread if having there cheat meal did in fact kick them out of ketosis, because as i said there seems to be mixed messages thanks.


----------



## DRED

the cheat kicks you out due to all the carbs,but you slip back in within a day or so...

if you look back into the other dp thread you should get an explanation...

dont panic


----------



## DRED

*Dave Palumbo* <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>


​
I eat 8 times per day (50g protein, 20g fat, 30g carbs per meal).

Pre-contest, I cut the carbs back to 15 grams per meal, and I up the fat to 30g per meal.

Sources of protein include: chicken, fish, lean red meat, whole eggs, and whey protein.

Sources of fat include: olive oil, cashew nuts, almonds, all natural peanut butter, egg yolks, and salmon.

I've actually designed a protein shake called, PALUMBO'S ANBOLIC ELIXIR. It includes a unique protein blend consisting of whey and egg protein complexes with a rich variety of essential fats.

In recent times, my weight gain in the off-season has been minimal. I usually go up to 280lbs (the heaviest) and then, for a contest, I come down to 265lbs. Back in the late 1990's, I used to blow up to a relatively lean 315lbs; however, it was just too uncomfortable.

ref: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson65.htm

When dieting using my HIGH PROTEIN/ MODERATE FAT/ LOW CARB approach, my post workout shake would consist of 50g whey, 30g fat (coming from all natural peanut butter), very low carbs (just whats in the PB). Remember, the brain is not using carbs when in a state of ketosis so carb intake (even after the workout) is unnecessary.

OFFSEASON, my post workout shake consists of 50g whey with 50g Vitargo (i just started using this high molecular weight carbohydrate supplement. It's fantastic. It empties from the stomach faster than dextrose yet causes no bloating)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On my recommended high protein/moderate fat/low low card diet, your muscle glycogen levels are very low, however, they never get depleted since the only activity that requires glucose (carbs) is WEIGHT TRAINING. And since you probably only require 50g carbs per workout, you'll have no problems since that's just about the amount you'll be taking in per day (from indirect sources-- nuts, peanutbutter, whole eggs, ect). Also, you'll be having a cheat meal once per week which will act to reload glycogen stores.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESSENTIAL POLYUNSATURATES:

Omega-3 Fish Oil pills 1000mg 3x per day

Evening Primrose Oil (Omega-6) 1300mg 2x per day

NON ESSENTIAL but HEART HEALTHY

Macadamia Nut oil (Omega-9 monosaturates) 2-3 ablespoons per day

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs

Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter

Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil

Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB

Meal 6 6 whole eggs

This is typically how i start off most clients diets.........then there's modifications along the way and I have to cater it according to how hte client looks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

CARDIO:

I walk on the tredmill at 100bpm (the most) for 30 min (although I hardly ever do cardio). Forge the incline, forget going super fast. Just walk 30 min-90 min (I increase cardio as people get closer to competition) at a leasurely pace.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Virgin Coconut Oil is a MEDIUM CHAIN SATURATE FAT. Because it's not a long chain fatty acid, it avoids digestion, processing, and the need for a carrier molecule (L-carnitine) to get into the mitochondria to be burned for energy (oxidized). Becuase of this, Coconut oil (and all medium chain fats) have been called the FATLESS FAT. From a health standpoint, its a great immune system stimulator (lots of AIDS patients are now using it for its antiviral properties). We must remember, however, that Coconut Oil is not an essential fat and, in my estimation, is useless when dieting. What it's good for as supplemental calories and fats while on a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on"><st1laceName w:st="on">MASS</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">BUILDING</st1laceType></st1lace> program. I used to put one teaspoon in my morning Oatmeal. Give's it some moisture and a nice coconut taste. I wouldn't advise cooking with it however. Stick with the heart healthy monounsaturated fat, MACADAMIA NUT OIL.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EGG YOLKS:

If you use the OMEGA-3 EGGS that I recommend, you can eat as many whole eggs as you like since most of the saturated fat has been replaced with Heart Healthy Omega-3 Fats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recommend 8-10 meals for <st1lace w:st="on"><st1laceName w:st="on">OFFSEASON</st1laceName> <st1laceName w:st="on">MASS</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">BUILDING</st1laceType></st1lace>. 6 meals for pre-contest dieting. There's no need for more than 6 meals when dieting. I only have TONEY FREEMAN eating 6 meals and he's huge!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIET FOR NATURALS:

Everything stays exactly the same. The same principles apply to the body whether on drugs or not. High protein, moderate fat, low carb is the ideal environment for optimal fat burning/muscle preservation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHEY PROTEIN:

Cheap whey protein that tastes good probably has a higher percentage of lactose (milk sugar) in it. I'm lactose intolerant. If i used that whey protein, I would be in the bathroom all night long-- not a pretty sight! My SPECIES BRAND of Whey will be out in the next month or so (I hope). I'm working on a PURE WHEY ISOLATE (no lactose) that actually tastes good. Once I have the formula perfected, I'll release it! For now, you can try the REEVES ULTRA WHEY that i sell on my websit (www.davepalumbo.com). It's one of the best low lactose WHEY PROTEINS i've ever tasted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MACADAMIA NUT BUTTER still contains the carbs (unlike pure macadamia nut oil). That is fine if you want to use it in place of all natural peanutbutter (it's actually healthier). When you purchase an all natural PB and you notice that the oil has separated from the rest of the PB, make sure you mix it up before using the stuff. Don't pour off the oil or else you're losing all the good fats.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember, the diet I suggest has all its components in place for a reason. I constantly get questions of whether a person could follow my diet suggestions and use a bit less fat and one or two small carb meals. The truth is, any diet works if there's a logical plan behind it and if you stick to it. If you add some carbs to my diet and take away some fat, it will no longer be my diet. You're changing the conditions and becaues of that, you won't get the same consistent results I get with my clients. If you add carbs, you'll never get your brain into KETOSIS. If your brain isn't in ketosis, it will constantly be searching for CARBS to use as energy. In the absence of carbs, it will turn muscle into carbs. You'll be moody, hungry, and you'll have energy fluctuations all day long. When in ketosis, your brain is using FATS for energy, so carbs become irrelevant to the brain. Energy levels are stable, moods are stable, and hunger is really a non issue. Also, when carbs are eliminated, so is the FAT STORING hormone INSULIN. NO INSULIN, no FAT STORAGE possible. If you have INSULIN release (because you're eating SOME carbs), you'll have a hormonal drive to store fat that you'll be combatting. Once again, If you change the diet, it doesn't work as effectively. Then, you're just left with the same diet that everyone else does. Hope that helps!<o></o>

<o></o>

When you're trying to add mass, you need PROTEIN, and ESSENTIAL FATS to build muscle.......and you need CARBS to be the FUEL SOURCE to make all this happen. When dieting, we're using FAT for the fuel source; that's why it's hard to grow. Remember, the formula never changes. PROTEIN + FAT = MUSCLE. CARBS - GASOLINE

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carbohydrates cause insulin release which, while being a fat storage hormone, is also an anabolic hormone that helps drive carbs and amino acids into the muscle cell where they are then used for building muscle. Offseason, you NEED insulin to build muscle. Precontest, we're just trying to preserver muscle while maximizing fat loses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you're followin my high protein, moderate fat, no carb diet...........THEN, you CAN NOT take in 50g of VITARGO (even after you train).........PERIOD!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL:

Contains high quantities of the GOOD essential Omega-6 fat, Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA). This is the only O-6 fat that lowers inflammation, lowers blood pressure, and lowers cholesterol. It also happens to be a great liver detoxifer and it's great for PMS women. It's also needed for the proper repair of muscle cells (the cell membrane).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO CARB DIET:

When you diet on no carbs, you're brain goes into a state of ketosis whereby it no longer requires glucose for energy. This means your brain will never be at a loss for fuel. This makes for more stable blood sugar levels-- less tiredness, less moodiness, and less irritability. Also, insulin levels will be very low (insulin is a fat storage hormone) and GH levels will be very high. Another thing to consider is that on this diet your body will be receiving adequate levels of good essential fats that it requires on a daily basis. Fats help repair damaged muscle tissue and are necessary for the synthesis of key hormones.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POST WORKOUT:

(1) Pre-contest: No carbs, No vitargo, No sugar period! Stick with your whey and all natural peanutbutter shake

(2) Offseason: Whey and Vitargo pre-workout. Whey, Vitargo, tablespoon of Macadamia Nut Oil (I love this combo) post-workout.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PALUMBO DIET:

Watch the FAT FREE cheeses since they all have CARBS..........Remember, carbs, not fat, are the enemy while dieting.

CHEAT MEAL: You should have ONE MEAL per week where you eat what you want. If you have a psychotic appetite, try to limit you cheat meal to about 500g carbs the most (remember, that's the MOST)..........As it gets closer to a show, many times I have to cut out the cheat meal to help the bodybuilder suck out that last bit of stubborn fat.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MY CHEAT MEAL:

For years, I always went to the all you can eat sushi buffet for my cheat meal. Sometimes i finished that off with a non-fat yogurt (ice cream). Nowadays, I'm completely lactose intollerant so no yogurt. I do still go to the sushi buffet. In 2002, I went to the Italian restaurant with my friend DAVE WATSON who i helped for the Nationals that year. We ate everything in site (including a canoli). We both placed 2nd that year (DAVE W in the Heavyweight; Me in the Super HW, behind my man TONY FREEMAN).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for NATURAL SUPPLEMENTS for NATURAL BODYBUILDERS, I suggest the JUICE PLUS, EVENING PRIMROSE OIL (1300mg 2x per day), OMEGA-3 FISH OIL (2000-3000mg per day), 1500mg Coral Calcium per day, and 2000mg MSM 2x per day. Also, make sure to take a fiber supplement (Sugar-free metamucil is good) 2x per day and my non-stimulant based fat burners are excellent: Lipolyze (1 pill 3-5x per day with meals) AND Somalyze (3 pills with your last meal before bed).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

meal 1 6 whole omega-3 eggs

meal 2 8oz of chicken with half cup raw almonds

meal 3 50g whey with 2 tblsp all natural peanut butter

meal 4 8oz of salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tblsp macadamia nut oil.

meal 5 50g whey with 2 tblsp of peanut butter

meal 6 6 whole omega-3 eggs.

BILLY GUNS was nice enough to re-post my sample diet. Remember that that diet is designed for a BIG guy over 230lbs. The quantities of fat will be a little lower for a lighter competitor. Remember, a POST WORKOUT shake will on this diet is the same shake you'd have at any other time of the day. Remember, there's NO CARBS in this diet. So, the shake would be 50g Whey and 1-2 tablespoons of all natural peanutbutter (almond butter)<o></o>

__________________<o></o>


----------



## hilly

i find after my cheat it takes me till tuesday morning to be right back into ketosis. i have spent the last 2 weeks reading up on using insulin to reach ketosis in a day so i am trying this today as an experiment. i dnt really need to yet as i am still loosing 2-3 pound a week but thought id give it a go now then use it later on as and when needed.

MISSBC i would definalty keep the cheat meal in. doesnt have to be a dirty cheat(unless its in relation to winger idea  but you really should get some carbs in to help replenish glycogen stores. something i am going to do further down the line is move the cheat meal to every 10 days as i read on one of daves thread this is how long we can store glycogen for. something to think about.


----------



## DRED

MissBC said:


> ahhh ok ill check, are there good and bad sweetners?
> 
> Show is in May. I may think about the cheat, ill see how the change in diet and cardio goes this week if good ill have a cheat next sunday if not so good ill leave it out!!


 *Artificial Sweetners:*

*
*The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin


----------



## gibbsy07

DRED said:


> the cheat kicks you out due to all the carbs,but you slip back in within a day or so...
> 
> if you look back into the other dp thread you should get an explanation...
> 
> dont panic


Thanks dred i m not panicking just now cause i think i am still losing weight, but still allot of fat to go, but the thing with me regarding ketosis the sticks would never change colour from my urine, so never really knew if i was in ketosis fully, so after a cheat meal, during the week i have no way of checking if i i am in it or not lol, but as i said i am still losing so far cheers.


----------



## MissBC

winger said:


> We both like them like that so just let it grow and I will sit around holding my breath.


sorry but there is NO way im going to let it grow!!! YUCK :nono:


----------



## DRED

legs...

leg extentions.....

1 x 20 36kg

1 x 20 44kg

1 x 20 52kg

1 x 18 60kg

1 x 15 68kg

1 x 12 60kg

1 x 12 52kg

1 x 10 44kg

1 x 8 36kg

laying leg curls.....

1 x 20 36kg

1 x 20 44kg

1 x 20 52kg

1 x 18 60kg

1 x 15 68kg

1 x 12 60kg

1 x 12 52kg

 1 x 10 44kg

1 x 8 36kg

recumbant leg press....

3 x 20

standing calf raises...

4 x 20 variouse foot spacings


----------



## MissBC

hilly2008 said:


> . something i am going to do further down the line is move the cheat meal to every 10 days as i read on one of daves thread this is how long we can store glycogen for. something to think about.


ahhhhhhh maybe il do this!! thanks babe


----------



## gibbsy07

hilly2008 said:


> i find after my cheat it takes me till tuesday morning to be right back into ketosis. i have spent the last 2 weeks reading up on using insulin to reach ketosis in a day so i am trying this today as an experiment. i dnt really need to yet as i am still loosing 2-3 pound a week but thought id give it a go now then use it later on as and when needed.
> 
> MISSBC i would definalty keep the cheat meal in. doesnt have to be a dirty cheat(unless its in relation to winger idea  but you really should get some carbs in to help replenish glycogen stores. something i am going to do further down the line is move the cheat meal to every 10 days as i read on one of daves thread this is how long we can store glycogen for. something to think about.


Hi mate i know you have read up on the insulin thing, and are eperienced but have you tried the leucine method first to see if that spikes your insulin, just i read that the insulin can be dangerous, but as i said i know you are eprerienced.


----------



## hilly

i did read up on the leucin. i believe it is in the bcaa amino acids i have been taking to i increased my dose of that last week. didnt seem to make much of a difference and as i have the insulin their i thought id do it as a test. a few others on another board i go on were interested as well so i did it as a test.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

hilly eill be good to see what you get from using slin please let us know and also let us know how may IU's your using as well mate!


----------



## hilly

i used 2iu 3 times mate. i did a jab at 9am a jab at 11 and a jab at1. i checked my blood sugars twice once 2 hours after first jab which was 5.5 then at 3.30 which was 4.5.

i will post up in here wether i am in ketosis 2moro or not. if not then i will try with 4 jabs next week. if that doesnt work then i will not bother with it as i am in ketosis by tuesday anyway.


----------



## winger

Very nice post DRED.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

which slin you using mate is it lantus or another one?


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

scratch that lantus is a long lasting and you will be using short so probabily is humalog???


----------



## MissBC

i have another question!! Im just redoing my diet and planning the pro/vege days

In following both diets for females dave gives it works out to have alot less protein and fat that i worked out i needed!!

Should i stick to his plan, or modify to be the amount of protein and fat i thought i needed for my weight??


----------



## Tall

MissBC said:


> i have another question!! Im just redoing my diet and planning the pro/vege days
> 
> In following both diets for females dave gives it works out to have alot less protein and fat that i worked out i needed!!
> 
> Should i stick to his plan, or modify to be the amount of protein and fat i thought i needed for my weight??


Depends.

If you want to follow his diet, then do as he says, as other wise you aren't following his diet.

If you feel that the kcals are too low, then modify his diet to suit your needs.

Hope that helps - hard to be specific without figures.


----------



## Tall

DRED said:


> *Virgin Coconut Oil is a MEDIUM CHAIN SATURATE FAT. Because it's not a long chain fatty acid, it avoids digestion, processing, and the need for a carrier molecule (L-carnitine) to get into the mitochondria to be burned for energy (oxidized). Becuase of this, Coconut oil (and all medium chain fats) have been called the FATLESS FAT*. From a health standpoint, its a great immune system stimulator (lots of AIDS patients are now using it for its antiviral properties). We must remember, however, that Coconut Oil is not an essential fat and, in my estimation, is useless when dieting. What it's good for as supplemental calories and fats while on a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on"><st1laceName w:st="on">MASS</st1laceName> <st1laceType w:st="on">BUILDING</st1laceType></st1lace> program. I used to put one teaspoon in my morning Oatmeal. Give's it some moisture and a nice coconut taste. I wouldn't advise cooking with it however. Stick with the heart healthy monounsaturated fat, MACADAMIA NUT OIL.


I'm not convinced thats entirely correct.

Can anyone shed any more light on it?


----------



## MissBC

Tall said:


> Depends.
> 
> If you want to follow his diet, then do as he says, as other wise you aren't following his diet.
> 
> If you feel that the kcals are too low, then modify his diet to suit your needs.
> 
> Hope that helps - hard to be specific without figures.


well no it is following his diet just upping the grams a bit!! We arent really told the weight of the female that that diet is designed for!! but for example with his diet it worked out to be about 180g protein and 60g fat but i workout out more that i should be taking in about 200g protein and 80ish grams fat??


----------



## hilly

i did use humalog mate but i also have some long acting levemir i could use but i want to save this for bulking as its much safer and less chance of fat storage.


----------



## hilly

MissBC said:


> well no it is following his diet just upping the grams a bit!! We arent really told the weight of the female that that diet is designed for!! but for example with his diet it worked out to be about 180g protein and 60g fat but i workout out more that i should be taking in about 200g protein and 80ish grams fat??


try what you worked out for a week and see how much you loose. if you are not happy reduce the protein first then the fat.


----------



## MissBC

ok cool i worked out the following, im doing first off 1-1 then if im not loose enough i will do 1-2

Pro/fat

1576 cals

80.7 Fat

202.5 Protein

18 Carbs

Pro/vege

1074 cals

14.6 Fat

16.9 carbs

220 protein


----------



## Tall

MissBC said:


> well no it is following his diet just upping the grams a bit!! We arent really told the weight of the female that that diet is designed for!! but for example with his diet it worked out to be about 180g protein and 60g fat but i workout out more that i should be taking in about 200g protein and 80ish grams fat??





MissBC said:


> ok cool i worked out the following, im doing first off 1-1 then if im not loose enough i will do 1-2
> 
> Pro/fat
> 
> 1576 cals
> 
> 80.7 Fat
> 
> 202.5 Protein
> 
> 18 Carbs
> 
> Pro/vege
> 
> 1074 cals
> 
> 14.6 Fat
> 
> 16.9 carbs
> 
> 220 protein


Wow those days are really low.

I know I harp on a bit :whistling: but protein will be used for energy with that little amount of energy substrate. Yours, IMHO, looks like a better macro breakdown for Pro/Fat days than his.


----------



## MissBC

Tall said:


> Wow those days are really low.
> 
> I know I harp on a bit :whistling: but protein will be used for energy with that little amount of energy substrate. Yours, IMHO, looks like a better macro breakdown for Pro/Fat days than his.


the pro vege day looks really low to me but im maybe assuming thats the point???? you cant exaclty have the same amount of cals if your having no or minimal fat?

So the pro/fat day is ok??

He says that the pro vege day should be the same ratio of protein ie 1-1,5g per lb bodyweight??? but it comes out such low cals and thats even more protein that i would need!


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Pk guys i know i have already said this but i can not stress it enough what you have to realise is this diet is not based for anyone it is just an example diet if you want a diet that is for you you have to pay him, i am not saying that this diet does not work in fact the opposite it has worked for many on here and many over the years since KETO diets came out, but i wouldnt get too hung up on the DP version of this diet as any other keto diet will work just as good and you could tailor it for your needs, i think scott put the typical ratios up for a standard keto diet but i cant remember what they was!

Scott if you could please can you put them back up so that i and everyone else can see them so they can tailor there diets to this with the calories that they need!

Plus i have also got to say that i dont agree with everything that DP says as he said about the fats in the comment that dred put up!

I think on any sort of keto diet even DP version it does not matter what sort of fat you use as even saturated fats are good for you as they have non of the bad qualities that people associate them with if your carbs are low or even not present!


----------



## hackskii

Tall said:


> I'm not convinced thats entirely correct.
> 
> Can anyone shed any more light on it?


Fatless fat?

If it allows you to burn it as fuel it is not calorie free.

How can a fat be fatless?



Chris4Pez said:


> Scott if you could please can you put them back up so that i and everyone else can see them so they can tailor there diets to this with the calories that they need!


30 grams or less of carbohydrates and all the fat and protein you want.

Once in ketosis, you are not that hungry anyway and overfeeding wont be a problem for most.

It is the rising and falling of blood sugars that trigger a responce for fuel that the brain calls out for.

This isnt so on a keto diet.

Sweetners, I like stevia, but it tasta pretty good in coffee but does have a slight like alkaline taste where it makes your tongue feel not slippery (cant explain).


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

yes mate but what i meant was on a post somewhere on the board cant remember where you said that there was a macro count for a typical keto diet in terms of fats protein and carbs where i think that the carbs was something like 5%, cant fully remember!

Do you know what i mean mate?


----------



## Tall

hackskii said:


> Fatless fat?
> 
> If it allows you to burn it as fuel it is not calorie free.
> 
> How can a fat be fatless?


Goodness knows. Most of his stuff is so badly written it's tough to make head and tail of it.

I think he's saying normal fats are tougher to breakdown (this is part of the metabolic advantage some people talk about keto diets having, you have eat ~300kcal more per day than on a carb diet due to energy requirements for breaking down fats and utilising ketones) and that MCTs are used for energy much faster than LCFA's.


----------



## winger

Here is a (keto) book called Letter on Corpulence, by William Banting written in 1864. Click on the book to read it.


----------



## winger

MissBC said:


> i have another question!!


I so hope it is a sexual question. :whistling:


----------



## Miller

7 days in, 7lb down

very impressive, Im guessing around 2lb of that is fat though? maybe less?

I played rugby saturday fuelled by 6 eggs, 2 breasts and a handful of cashews and felt really slow and lethargic, I suppose there's nothing I can do though

was agony going to a party on saturday where I was the only one not drinking, especially when they ordered pizzas and cakes in, no point undoing a weeks worth of work though


----------



## Miller

Ye I went down the butchers and got a nice cut of ribeye steak and cooked it to perfection just before I left so that I felt like Id had a treat

it's all about kidding yourself I feel


----------



## paull

i'm starting this diet tomorrow


----------



## DRED

paull said:


> i'm starting this diet tomorrow


good luck :beer:


----------



## hilly

il probs be posting some pics 10 weeks in in my journal. dnt have any before pics.


----------



## paull

ok call me stupid but

what is a cup in grams


----------



## MissBC

paull said:


> ok call me stupid but
> 
> what is a cup in grams


depends what your measuring!!


----------



## paull

MissBC said:


> depends what your measuring!!


asparagus


----------



## MissBC

just weigh it on scales???? or guesstimate the amount that would fit into a cup!!


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

if you google it mate it will tell you as i did for nuts etc and found it!


----------



## paull

cheers mates


----------



## hackskii

It will vary, half cup of black beans is something like 25 grams or so, same with oats (uncooked).

The more calorie foods like nuts and seeds might be higher in fats, lower in carbs and or proteins.

A cup of broccoli or asparagus wont be alot of calories.

Like a cup of cellery would be very low and as much fiber as it has may only be a very low number of calories.


----------



## winger

I have a question. How many nuts are in a cup?










Answer is two.


----------



## Tall

winger said:


> I have a question. How many nuts are in a cup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer is two.


W - is that like a male vibrator? Or does it just electrocute your nut sack...? :whistling:


----------



## DRED

paull said:


> asparagus


i have six sticks of asparagus


----------



## DRED

winger said:


> I have a question. How many nuts are in a cup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer is two.


fook sake winger you crack me up mate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## the_pit_bull

Hello all,

I started this diet yesterday, all is going well. Well ive stuck to it religiously anyway.

Will adding salt to any of the meals have an effect on the diet? Could it kick you out of ketosis?

Im just finding the plain chicken a bit... well, plain! Lol. Used to have spices on it of some sort.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## john987

hey guys, i wanna start a keto diet but i cant find any info on how to plan one for my body weight...any links appreciated


----------



## Rudedog

the_pit_bull said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I started this diet yesterday, all is going well. Well ive stuck to it religiously anyway.
> 
> Will adding salt to any of the meals have an effect on the diet? Could it kick you out of ketosis?
> 
> Im just finding the plain chicken a bit... well, plain! Lol. Used to have spices on it of some sort.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gaz


Why dont you marinade the chicken?


----------



## hackskii

Salt wont kick you out of ketosis.


----------



## hilly

the_pit_bull said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I started this diet yesterday, all is going well. Well ive stuck to it religiously anyway.
> 
> Will adding salt to any of the meals have an effect on the diet? Could it kick you out of ketosis?
> 
> Im just finding the plain chicken a bit... well, plain! Lol. Used to have spices on it of some sort.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gaz


you should be adding salt to the diet mate. add it to your 3 solid meals. get some spices from tesco for your meat their a lifesaver.


----------



## the_pit_bull

Thanks for replys.

When you say marinade - are spices okay? Normal chicken spices and herbs etc?

Ive been having everything plain.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## hilly

john987 said:


> hey guys, i wanna start a keto diet but i cant find any info on how to plan one for my body weight...any links appreciated


read the start of this thread and search for a thread i started on the dave palumbo diet. between them they have all the info you need and more.

as a guide its 1.5g of protein and 0.5g of fat per pound of bodyweight.

read the threads mate.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

scott sorry i know this is a bit of a hijack but its in relation to salt!

If i am on dbol and test is it right that i have to minimize the amount of salt that i have if i have any at all as at the minute i have cut all salt out of my diet!


----------



## the_pit_bull

Just seen your reply hilly, cheers.

Wasnt sure wether or not could have spices.

Thanks


----------



## winger

Chris4Pez said:


> scott sorry i know this is a bit of a hijack but its in relation to salt!
> 
> If i am on dbol and test is it right that i have to minimize the amount of salt that i have if i have any at all as at the minute i have cut all salt out of my diet!


Both gear and salt you will hold water. Holding water raises blood pressure and that is not good.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

so even if i am on gear without salt in my diet i will hold water???


----------



## hilly

winger so would you suggest cutting all salt out then. i had cut it out but i think it was vince said you should add it to meals to stop all the water you are drinking pass right through. i also read dave p saying you should at it to meals.

just curiouse mate?

hilly


----------



## Miller

Rudedog said:


> Why dont you marinade the chicken?


 check the labels mate, lots of sugars

Im just eating my breasts with a dash of lea & perrins


----------



## hackskii

If BP is an issue on gear and salt elivates this, then yah, avoiding salt for bloat and BP issues would be a good thing.

Generally though bloating from water on a keto diet is not that common, and if you take digestive enzymes and also some pro-biotics bloating should not be an issue unless it is estrogen related.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

do digestive enzymes also help aid with weight loss?


----------



## hackskii

Chris4Pez said:


> do digestive enzymes also help aid with weight loss?


No but they will help you to get more out of your food.


----------



## winger

hilly2008 said:


> winger so would you suggest cutting all salt out then. i had cut it out but i think it was vince said you should add it to meals to stop all the water you are drinking pass right through. i also read dave p saying you should at it to meals.
> 
> just curiouse mate?
> 
> hilly


Hackskii answered it. If you have high bp then back off on the salt.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

think i am going to get me some of these digestive enzymes where do i get them from??? Cheapest possible place that you know please guys???


----------



## hackskii

I like the R-graden ones the best, I think they are called quadrazime.

Twin labs makes an ok product too.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

shall i just google for them?


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

google a mans best friend lol


----------



## DRED

the_pit_bull said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I started this diet yesterday, all is going well. Well ive stuck to it religiously anyway.
> 
> Will adding salt to any of the meals have an effect on the diet? Could it kick you out of ketosis?
> 
> Im just finding the plain chicken a bit... well, plain! Lol. Used to have spices on it of some sort.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gaz


by adding salt it can stop you dehydrating,due to the low carbs..


----------



## DRED

the_pit_bull said:


> Thanks for replys.
> 
> When you say marinade - are spices okay? Normal chicken spices and herbs etc?
> 
> Ive been having everything plain.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gaz


i use extra virgin olive oil with chilli flakes in it


----------



## hackskii

Here you go: http://rgarden.com/mygarden/index.php?refmail=&customers_referral=&main_page=product_info&products_id=4&zenid=72f12ea22011fcb1eaccfeb725963aa2

Look at the blend

5 enzymes to digest proteins

2 enzymes to digest fibers

1 enzyme for fats and oils

2 enzymes to reduce starches

7 enzymes for sugars and dairy products


----------



## MissBC

hilly2008 said:


> you should be adding salt to the diet mate. add it to your 3 solid meals. get some spices from tesco for your meat their a lifesaver.


yea because your not having carbs you need something to pull the water into your muscles etc and salt will do this!! Otherwise you will be VERY dehydrated!!


----------



## MissBC

hilly2008 said:


> winger so would you suggest cutting all salt out then. i had cut it out but i think it was vince said you should add it to meals to stop all the water you are drinking pass right through. i also read dave p saying you should at it to meals.
> 
> just curiouse mate?
> 
> hilly


what i read was that you NEED the salt otherwise you are going to dry your body out big time and your kidneys WONT like that!! You only drop the salt if you are a few days out from comp time!!


----------



## MissBC

DRED said:


> i use extra virgin olive oil with chilli flakes in it


I use any dry spices tbh just the ones in the little glass bottles

at the mo im loving the

-chicken seasoning

-Spicy all purpose seasoning

- Fajita seasoning


----------



## DRED

Fajita seasoning yummy


----------



## hackskii

MissBC, you can season my chicken any time.


----------



## MissBC

hackskii said:


> MissBC, you can season my chicken any time.


FPMSL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww hacks, lufs you x


----------



## MissBC

DRED said:


> Fajita seasoning yummy


yea its aweosme, so is the spicy one!!

I usually put my green beans in, add the chopped up chicken, some spicy seasoning and a little low salt soy sauce YUM YUM YUM lid on and SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE (the container not me) :bounce:


----------



## Miller

I was told on here that you could not drink on this diet but what about vodka and diet coke? we know we're allowed diet coke and it says in this nutritional data there is no carbs, and no carbs from sugars in vodka

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/3840/2

Im not a big drinker myself, I was just seeing what people thought of this?


----------



## winger

MissBC said:


> SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE (the container not me) :bounce:


Darn.



Miller said:


> I was told on here that you could not drink on this diet but what about vodka and diet coke? we know we're allowed diet coke and it says in this nutritional data there is no carbs, and no carbs from sugars in vodka
> 
> http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beverages/3840/2
> 
> Im not a big drinker myself, I was just seeing what people thought of this?


I know people that drank diet coke and hard alcohol on a keto diet and still did well.


----------



## gibbsy07

MissBC said:


> yea its aweosme, so is the spicy one!!
> 
> I usually put my green beans in, add the chopped up chicken, some spicy seasoning and a little low salt soy sauce YUM YUM YUM lid on and SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE (the container not me) :bounce:


Hi Missbc what kind of container, just looking to make my food a bit more tastier thanks. :thumb:


----------



## MissBC




----------



## gibbsy07

well a walked straight into that one, didn't i lol i just thought you were talking about that jamie oliver shaker where you put all the spices in it, and yes you guessed it give it a shake, i ask stupid questions on the account of having no carbs that's my excuse and i am sticking to it lol


----------



## winger

MissBC, that is funny.


----------



## wardster27

i tried this last week ended up very tired early this week so had good carb up monday.

im following it again but having pwo carbs. im not on 'dp' diet now i know but feeling nice and full but still tight thru low water retention so im gonna stick to this approach.

not too bothered about popping out of ketosis .whats crack with no glutamine?

good old muscle sparing/volumizing immune system boosting glutamine is barred too?

i can see this diet making a few people ill in long term if not cycled


----------



## winger

Everybody is different. I feel great when I eat very low carbs.

I have more energy, less bloating and I loose bf, so for me I love it, but I am a fat fcuk.

As far as making people ill, not so sure. What makes people ill is eating way to many carbs IMO. Adult type 2 diabetes is on the rise big time.

I see so many fat kids now days and I would attribute that to fast food.

You can crack open a bag of chemically engineered chips that taste so fcuking good or chew on a steak that makes your jaws tired from so much chewing. Just a thought.


----------



## Miller

Im gutted here, I thought I was in line for my cheat meal this sat (13 days in) now Im finding out its 3 weeks so next sat I have to wait till

I really am gutted haha


----------



## the_pit_bull

I started this on monday, and i feel just like WINGER described. Not tired at all, more energy if anything and feel really healthy.

I do get major cravings for carbs, a big pizza anda cheesecake would go down soooo nice right now!

Ive got a mate who tried it and he said he had to quit after 3 days, he was falling asleep and had no energy at all, so i guess everyone responds differently.

Roll on next sunday when im having my first cheat meal


----------



## winger

I don't really get nearly as hungry as before.

I think you are only as good as your last meal. If you take in a carb meal you will crave carbs in a few hours because your blood sugar will spike then drop. When it drops you are left hungry.


----------



## hilly

Miller said:


> Im gutted here, I thought I was in line for my cheat meal this sat (13 days in) now Im finding out its 3 weeks so next sat I have to wait till
> 
> I really am gutted haha


no mate first cheat meal is afetr 12-14 days


----------



## Miller

I love you


----------



## hilly

haha. Wait till you get further in mate. this is my 8th week i have been reading the pizza hut menu everyday cos im going sat night lol


----------



## Miller

especially as Im not doing anything this weekend

im playing a rugby match and when I was on this diet before, the night of a game I was nearly asleep by 6pm, after a full game would be a good time to carb up definately


----------



## wardster27

im looking leaner and still nice and full. i think this could be a good lean mass diet if you add a good pwo drink


----------



## DRED

wardster27 said:


> im looking leaner and still nice and full. i think this could be a good lean mass diet if you add a good pwo drink


that would probably kick you out of ketosis every time you have one...


----------



## wardster27

DRED said:


> that would probably kick you out of ketosis every time you have one...


most definately but like i said lean mass.

taking advantage of a highly anabolic insulin spike post workout give the muscles a treat.

im gonna stick with this over 3 months. if i lose 2lb a week but keep muscle im more happier than losing 5lb a week and looking flatter than a witches tit


----------



## DRED

wardster27 said:


> most definately but like i said lean mass.
> 
> taking advantage of a highly anabolic insulin spike post workout give the muscles a treat.
> 
> im gonna stick with this over 3 months. if i lose 2lb a week but keep muscle im more happier than losing 5lb a week and looking flatter than a witches tit


if your popping in and out of ketosis you could line yourself up for some headaches and achy joints....

hope it works for you :beer:


----------



## gibbsy07

wardster27 said:


> most definately but like i said lean mass.
> 
> taking advantage of a highly anabolic insulin spike post workout give the muscles a treat.
> 
> im gonna stick with this over 3 months. if i lose 2lb a week but keep muscle im more happier than losing 5lb a week and looking flatter than a witches tit


Hi mate it sounds like you are doing the ckd diet i read about that a few years ago, and i was going to try it, but ended just doing a bulk instead lol. anyway it is what ever works for you, and it is all about experimenting and learning as you go, i may try ckd myself later on just to see how it goes, but keto is just new to me and i fell not too bad energy wise, but sometimes a bit tired especialy after my cheat, cheers :thumbup1:


----------



## DRED

my training has been of this week,no real get up and go.....

i might go to a 3 day split and see how that goes....

maybe lighten the weight a bit and oump out a few more reps....


----------



## wardster27

DRED said:


> that would probably kick you out of ketosis every time you have one...





DRED said:


> if your popping in and out of ketosis you could line yourself up for some headaches and achy joints....
> 
> hope it works for you :beer:


that sounds rightmate my elbows are in agony sometimes but they have been like it for long time .

just got back from tesco demolished a full chicken and couple scoops pb

my mam passed comment that im looking big (she hates it) so thats a good sign and im feeling tite still so maybe i have found my happy medium.

like a lot of people have said its down to whats right for you.

i think the best thing to do is look in mirror and make an honest judgement and then decide the goal before going on something like this.

you look huge in your photo and can afford to lose muscle and look big still whaen the fat goes but some of the kids on theese forums are wanting to do it and i can only see them loosing what little hard earned muscle they have built.

how are you looking now? i noticed you started 5th jan so almost 8 weeks what results so far? sorry if you have posted already i have not been following every day


----------



## wardster27

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi mate it sounds like you are doing the ckd diet i read about that a few years ago, and i was going to try it, but ended just doing a bulk instead lol. anyway it is what ever works for you, and it is all about experimenting and learning as you go, i may try ckd myself later on just to see how it goes, but keto is just new to me and i fell not too bad energy wise, but sometimes a bit tired especialy after my cheat, cheers :thumbup1:


hello mate its tkd i think. targeted keto diet were the carbs are timed pre and post workout or even on waking in morning to use them to advantage. from what i have read tho cant do cheat meal or carb up weekends on this approach.

like u say its what works best and experementing but total keto i cant face the gym. i walked out on monday after 3 sets lat pulldowns and thats just not me i never skip sessions im a right sado when it comes to that but monday i was a different man so threw towel in


----------



## DRED

wardster27 said:


> that sounds rightmate my elbows are in agony sometimes but they have been like it for long time .
> 
> just got back from tesco demolished a full chicken and couple scoops pb
> 
> my mam passed comment that im looking big (she hates it) so thats a good sign and im feeling tite still so maybe i have found my happy medium.
> 
> like a lot of people have said its down to whats right for you.
> 
> i think the best thing to do is look in mirror and make an honest judgement and then decide the goal before going on something like this.
> 
> you look huge in your photo and can afford to lose muscle and look big still whaen the fat goes but some of the kids on theese forums are wanting to do it and i can only see them loosing what little hard earned muscle they have built.
> 
> how are you looking now? i noticed you started 5th jan so almost 8 weeks what results so far? sorry if you have posted already i have not been following every day


17.7 at the start and now almost 16 stone....stomache is flatter for the first time in a good few years....


----------



## wardster27

DRED said:


> 17.7 at the start and now almost 16 stone....stomache is flatter for the first time in a good few years....


good stuff mate nice to hear


----------



## hackskii

Vince, 6 weeks out and no cheat or glycogen repleneishment?

Some will still have some cheat meals, this will help you to not look flat the day of the comp.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi dred good going mate, n keep it up, at 16 stone your still a big guy and it looks even better with a six pack, maybe just a wee bit rest from the training will charge up the batteries again, cheers.


----------



## hackskii

Ok vince, I see.

Do the girls tend to hold the glycogen longer than men or something?


----------



## MissBC

Vince said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer Vince, much appreciated!
> 
> At 10 weeks out (9 saturday) you should be already on 1-2 if not 1-3 according to condition
> 
> hmmmmmmmm really..... ok will start that as of now, might hit 1-2 for 2 weeks and then 1-3
> 
> Had a bit of a plateau last week so stepping it up a bit!! Changing the diet a tad, upping the cardio and bit too!!
> 
> How much cardio are you doing? i was doing about 90mins but i have now upped it to hour am, hour post weights and then maybe 20min on the stepper evening to RIPPPPPPPP my butt to shreads hahahahaha :bounce:
> 
> I have a few questions if anyone wants to answer
> 
> What was the outcome of the sugar free squash or diet drink debate that was going on in here?? YES or NO?? I just struggle to drink 5 plain water!!
> 
> 2 glasses of diet coke are fine YUS cause im well addicted to Dr Pepper Zero
> 
> Anyone come across any info on how to come into comp time on this diet?? I am going to try and hunt around for some info now!!
> 
> That is something you wont find as it's info he gives out only to paying clients...but for women is pretty straightforward hmmmmmmm guess ill have to try hunt then net for any sign of what i need to do!! Fingers crossed there is something SOMEwhere, or i may just have to message the man himsself and see if i can sweet talk him into sharing hahahahaha
> 
> Also i LOVE the fact that hack said macadamia nuts are better for this diet cause OMFG i love them!! brought 2 bags from tesco today, the natural ones, and i just stuck them in a tupperware container with a little salt!! SOOOOOOOO DAM GOOD!!
> 
> and lastly, i was thinking of dropping my cheat meals all together for the next 10 weeks, good idea or bad! Is it going to be detrimental to not have them??
> 
> According to condition cheat should be dropped 6 weeks out at the latest hmmmmm ok, i may have one more cheat this weekend and then drop them, i dont really feel like i have to cheat, im quite happy on the diet really so not missing or seriously craving anything!
> 
> Keep the salt...salt manipulation is only done in the last 24hrs
> 
> cool salt is staying :bounce: makes all the dam eggs i have that much easier to eat!


Thanks again Vince


----------



## walks

good to see so many get good results with this diet.

Was considering going back on it myself but im doing alot of cardio so thats a no no for now

Dreed

How long have you got left on this now?

have you noticed things starting to slow up?


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi dred, i don't want to make an ass of myself again like i did last night, but just wanted to ask about the fajita seasoning is it defo safe to use, i know it is in powdwer form, but some of the ingredients where lemon, onion, sage, anti caking agent, and prapika sugar, tbh, the prapika sugar was the one that worried me, cause when i saw the word sugar, i thought oops, so is it ok mate cheers


----------



## hilly

Just woundering would you guys only suggest switching to protein and veg days once fat lost has stoped and fat burners and cardio have both been increased to relativly high days. I am 8 weeks in and have droped atleast 3 pound this week still. I still have alot of room to increase cardio as only doing 45 mins pre breakfast. only running 80mcg of clen at the minute with 200mcg of t4 and 25mcg t3 so total of 75mcg of t3. I am actuallty considering adding in some more fat as i think by sat i will have lost 4 pound this week which may be a little to much.

any thoughts?


----------



## SOUTHMAN

ive come down a full stone now, im still flabby, pretty shocking how much i actually had to loose! i rekon another stone or so before im lean! I wanna get rid of the fat that rolls up when i sit down!

Hilly are you using store bought fat burners or are you reffering to the clen, t4 and t3?


----------



## hilly

the clen and t3/t4 mix.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

oh right i got some scimx fat burners and tbh i dont think they do anythin lol


----------



## hilly

in my opinion i dont rate any over the counter fat burners. ECA is 100x beter than them all IMO.


----------



## winger

hilly2008 said:


> Just woundering would you guys only suggest switching to protein and veg days once fat lost has stoped and fat burners and cardio have both been increased to relativly high days. I am 8 weeks in and have droped atleast 3 pound this week still. I still have alot of room to increase cardio as only doing 45 mins pre breakfast. only running 80mcg of clen at the minute with 200mcg of t4 and 25mcg t3 so total of 75mcg of t3. I am actuallty considering adding in some more fat as i think by sat i will have lost 4 pound this week which may be a little to much.
> 
> any thoughts?


Well in my ever so humble opinion I would not exceed 2 lbs in a week.

Now, if you just started this diet then that is ok because of water, but 8 weeks in no way. Unless all of your lifts are up then disregard my post, but basic math tells me you will loose muscle.


----------



## walks

hilly2008 said:


> Just woundering would you guys only suggest switching to protein and veg days once fat lost has stoped and fat burners and cardio have both been increased to relativly high days. I am 8 weeks in and have droped atleast 3 pound this week still. I still have alot of room to increase cardio as only doing 45 mins pre breakfast. only running 80mcg of clen at the minute with 200mcg of t4 and 25mcg t3 so total of 75mcg of t3. I am actuallty considering adding in some more fat as i think by sat i will have lost 4 pound this week which may be a little to much.
> 
> any thoughts?


As dave says,

Once you are doing the max amount of cardio and you have droped the cheat meal, if your still not losing then its time to go on protien/veg days.

just remember that for men pro/veg days are used as a last resort and you should of ditched your cheat meal before using them


----------



## gibbsy07

hilly2008 said:


> Just woundering would you guys only suggest switching to protein and veg days once fat lost has stoped and fat burners and cardio have both been increased to relativly high days. I am 8 weeks in and have droped atleast 3 pound this week still. I still have alot of room to increase cardio as only doing 45 mins pre breakfast. only running 80mcg of clen at the minute with 200mcg of t4 and 25mcg t3 so total of 75mcg of t3. I am actuallty considering adding in some more fat as i think by sat i will have lost 4 pound this week which may be a little to much.
> 
> any thoughts?


Hi mate, can't answer your question sorry, cause don't know enough, but just wondered how you were feeling on the clen, cause obviously it has it's side effects cheers. :thumbup1:


----------



## winger

And drink lots of water.


----------



## wardster27

hilly2008 said:


> in my opinion i dont rate any over the counter fat burners. ECA is 100x beter than them all IMO.





SOUTHMAN said:


> oh right i got some scimx fat burners and tbh i dont think they do anythin lol[/quote
> 
> send me a message mate and ill give you address of uk site i got my eca off and its real . dont want to post it incase it gets shut down


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> good to see so many get good results with this diet.
> 
> Was considering going back on it myself but im doing alot of cardio so thats a no no for now
> 
> Dreed
> 
> How long have you got left on this now?
> 
> have you noticed things starting to slow up?


i think it has slowed,but still loosing a pound or two a week....

still have not started cardio yet though....


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi dred, i don't want to make an ass of myself again like i did last night, but just wanted to ask about the fajita seasoning is it defo safe to use, i know it is in powdwer form, but some of the ingredients where lemon, onion, sage, anti caking agent, and prapika sugar, tbh, the prapika sugar was the one that worried me, cause when i saw the word sugar, i thought oops, so is it ok mate cheers


you will have such a small amount in that serving it should be fine....

MISSBC is having it(fajita seasoning) you could always ask her :thumbup1:


----------



## MissBC

DRED said:


> you will have such a small amount in that serving it should be fine....
> 
> MISSBC is having it(fajita seasoning) you could always ask her :thumbup1:


I think even if you ate the whole bottle of seasoning it wouldnt harm you!!

No need to over complicate it really, its a seasoning, you use about a teaspoon if that and aslong as the rest of your diet is in check you will be fine!!


----------



## hilly

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi mate, can't answer your question sorry, cause don't know enough, but just wondered how you were feeling on the clen, cause obviously it has it's side effects cheers. :thumbup1:


clen sides are not to bad mate slight shakes of hands as always and increased body temp. i like the sides cos it means they working


----------



## hilly

winger said:


> Well in my ever so humble opinion I would not exceed 2 lbs in a week.
> 
> Now, if you just started this diet then that is ok because of water, but 8 weeks in no way. Unless all of your lifts are up then disregard my post, but basic math tells me you will loose muscle.


my lifts are not up but i did deadlifts for the first time after hurting my back this week and i havnt lost any strength at all really. My strength on a whole has help quite well and is still apart from shoulders/chest due to an injury 4 weeks back but their coming back well.

cheers vince. ill keep everything the same then till i stop loosing then ill increase cardio. once that gets to the 1 hour 15 mins or so ill remove the cheat day then add some pro/veg as and when needed.


----------



## MissBC

hilly2008 said:


> clen sides are not to bad mate slight shakes of hands as always and increased body temp. i like the sides cos it means they working


you got any cramps yet??? clen is a killer for them!!

If you do get them or even in prevention i would start taking some taurine!!

I used to wak up in the middle of the night and feel like someone had shot me in the back of the calf, it was the worst cramp EVER!!  sniff sniff


----------



## Miller

I started the diet last monday at around 15st2/3

last sunday I weighed myself, the day after a full rugby match, at 14st8

today, after 3 weight sessions and only an hours cardio I come in at 14st9

do you think that the 14st8 was misleading or that I could have put on a touch of muscle?

I have stuck to the diet perfectly


----------



## DRED

Miller said:


> I started the diet last monday at around 15st2/3
> 
> last sunday I weighed myself, the day after a full rugby match, at 14st8
> 
> today, after 3 weight sessions and only an hours cardio I come in at 14st9
> 
> do you think that the 14st8 was misleading or that I could have put on a touch of muscle?
> 
> I have stuck to the diet perfectly


dont get to caught up with the scales,some weeks you loose some you dont and some your heavier.....

after the rugby match you would of dehydrated from sweating...


----------



## hilly

MissBC said:


> you got any cramps yet??? clen is a killer for them!!
> 
> If you do get them or even in prevention i would start taking some taurine!!
> 
> I used to wak up in the middle of the night and feel like someone had shot me in the back of the calf, it was the worst cramp EVER!!  sniff sniff


funnily enough this time around no issued with cramps. think the 6 litres of water helps.


----------



## DRED

chest & biceps

pec dec 4 x 12

flat press machine 4 x12

incline press machine 4 x 12

cable crossovers 2 x12 high 2 x 12 low

biceps

db curls 3 x 12

cable hammer curls 3 x 12

db concentration curls 3 x 12

today was the first time i trained all week,felt real tired but that is down to a couple of double shifts at work.....

feel better today maybe thats because tomorrow is cheat day...indian restaurant in the evening :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:


----------



## walks

DRED said:


> i think it has slowed,but still loosing a pound or two a week....
> 
> still have not started cardio yet though....


Lucky you my weight loss stalled after a week with no cardio


----------



## winger

That sucks walks, maybe you are not walking enough...lol

I am down 8 lbs in about 2 weeks and I still drink lot's of my Michelob Ultra 2.5 grams per bottle of beer and no cardio.

They say drink plenty of liquids so I drink bottled water with a beer label on it. :whistling:


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

winger said:


> That sucks walks, maybe you are not walking enough...lol
> 
> I am down 8 lbs in about 2 weeks and I still drink lot's of my Michelob Ultra 2.5 grams per bottle of beer and no cardio.
> 
> They say drink plenty of liquids so I drink bottled water with a beer label on it. :whistling:


Typical winger your the man!!!!


----------



## winger

Chris4Pez said:


> Typical winger your the man!!!!


No a real man would have said his cardio is from sex alone and put on 8 lbs of muscle...lol


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

winger said:


> No a real man would have said his cardio is from sex alone and put on 8 lbs of muscle...lol


Mate dont talk about sex as i am high on test cyp at the minute lol and trying to stay clear of the word sex lol


----------



## winger

Chris4Pez said:


> Mate dont talk about sex as i am high on test cyp at the minute lol and trying to stay clear of the word sex lol


Ok, I will honor your words.

Porn, tits, vagina, bubble butt, lips and they are all zero carbs...lol


----------



## hackskii

Nothing worse than a test cycle with no sex from a woman living in or under your roof.


----------



## Sean Byrne

I am going to following the keto diet.

Height:181cm

Weight:260lbs

Could you suggest a diet plan for me I know just about everything I plan

to do the diet through mon to fri and do my carb up period on the weekend can you give me some further advise. I went a GP today to find out my body fat % but he gave me my body mass index which is 37 and shuold be around 30.

Cheers


----------



## winger

hackskii said:


> Nothing worse than a test cycle with no sex from a woman living in or under your roof.


How do you really feel. Please don't sugar coat it will ya.

So your saying what exactly?

Back on topic. I have been backing off of carbs for about 3 weeks. Basicaly no sugars, starches, well you get the point.

I have been having wood all night while I sleep. Has any other male on the board experience that on this diet?

I know how this sounds, I am being honest.


----------



## hilly

first part of the diet i was but that was probs to do with the 500mg of test e lol. since i introduced tren every other day it comes in little bursts ill be horny as hell for a bit then not care less for a day.

I have gone from nocking one off once a day till i see my girl at the weekend to not even really bothering lol. with the good comes the bad i guess cos i love tren lol.


----------



## MissBC

all this talk of sex and "extra cardio" and midnight and morning woods etc etc etc ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm AHEM :thumb:


----------



## hilly

ill be having sex 2night if i am not to full after my cheat meal. Usually spend till 2 ish in bed on a sunday catching up for missed action during the week


----------



## DRED

walks said:


> Lucky you my weight loss stalled after a week with no cardio


gutted mate :lol:


----------



## DRED

wahoooooooooooooooooooooooo 15.13 this morning


----------



## silverback79

Thought I would drop a line in my progress report. I felt that progress was at a stand still last week. But I think that is maybe because I haven't much fat to loss and probably holding on abit of water due to the GH.

I am coming off GH this week so I will probably drop abit more. I was doing the following for just over a week for my diet:

Meal one: 6 x omega 3 eggs

Meal Two: 180g of chicken with 50 grams of Cashew (unsalted)

Meal Three: Same

Meal Four: Same

Meal Five 50g of isolate, 2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter. This is normally my post workout meal.

Meal five 8 ounce steak or 200 grams of Macarel with leafy green salad or 100g of green beans.

* I use MRS DASH salt free seasoning on my chicken, eggs, steak and fish*

My weight stayed at 84kg and I felt abit flat. I changed my diet back to the 200lb man diet DP suggests but kept protein the samef or the past 2 days and yesterday I weighted my self and was 83kg looked fuller in the muscles.

By the way my cardio is still 1 hour in the morning and 45 mins after training.

I think increasing the fats shocked the body body because of the calorie increase.

I know DP mentioned that if you reached a sticking point with your diet after increasing cardio and taking clen etc, that you should then play around with your diet. I think for me the increase in calories through fats helped jump start it again.

So a good piece of advice and example if people are scared to increase their calories and think they have to decrease their calories because they are at a sticking point!!!!!!


----------



## DRED

Sean Byrne said:


> I am going to following the keto diet.
> 
> Height:181cm
> 
> Weight:260lbs
> 
> Could you suggest a diet plan for me I know just about everything I plan
> 
> to do the diet through mon to fri and do my carb up period on the weekend can you give me some further advise. I went a GP today to find out my body fat % but he gave me my body mass index which is 37 and shuold be around 30.
> 
> Cheers


if you read the first few pages it should help you....

you need the diet for the 250lb man,the same one as i am following..


----------



## Sean Byrne

How much Leucine do I use


----------



## Sean Byrne

Cheers Mate.


----------



## Sean Byrne

I was thinking of useing Winstrol at 50mg per day will this help.

Do I need to take vitamins as well.


----------



## Sean Byrne

I well to my G.P today he said for me to take up a dietary program like the ones that are on t.v it is a low carb high fat and high protein diet I was thinking of doing I don,t know if the diet is a keto diet but it is pretty much the same I might check it out.


----------



## DRED

Sean Byrne said:


> I was thinking of useing Winstrol at 50mg per day will this help.
> 
> Do I need to take vitamins as well.


will it help what? :confused1: :confused1:


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

just brought some of this to do this sprt of diet on as even though there is 6g of carbs per serving it also has 7g of fiber which means that the 6g of carbs you can not really count as if there is fiber in the item of food or what ever then you minus the fiber from the carbs and this leavs you the digestable carbs that impact blood sugar and insulin etc as thats what i read in the Atkins book and on other internet sites as well so in essence this actually has no carbs whooo hooooo.

http://www.dorianyates.eu/product-view.asp?Product=GA10&action=summary


----------



## hilly

it has 3 grams of sugars mate that may kick you out of ketosis causing an insulin spike. you can only try it.

The fiber thing is an interesting point but if this was correct could you eat higher carb things and take alot of fiber with them to cancel each other out??


----------



## MissBC

Hilly what fibre supplement are you taking?


----------



## DRED

just been out for a curry,omg i am so full


----------



## MissBC

Vince said:


> http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-powders/fibre/whole-psyllium-husks/
> 
> 1 teaspoon in one of your shakes


 :bounce: :bounce:

Gotta order a few things from them so will do that tonight!! got sweet feck all to do apart from cardio!!  feel SO FULL though after my cheat.......... satisfied though since its my last hahahahaha


----------



## Tall

hilly2008 said:


> it has 3 grams of sugars mate that may kick you out of ketosis causing an insulin spike. you can only try it.
> 
> The fiber thing is an interesting point but if this was correct could you eat higher carb things and take alot of fiber with them to cancel each other out??


3g sugar shouldn't kick you out.

Buy a sample and test it if you are worried.


----------



## hilly

miss bcc i am using physilium husk from holland barrat 1 capsule with breaky and one with tea. does the trick


----------



## walks

hilly2008 said:


> miss bcc i am using physilium husk from holland barrat 1 capsule with breaky and one with tea. does the trick


Damm. i was taking 2 caps 3 times a day it didnt crap for about 6 days

Ive cured it now though with pizza hut 3x a week:whistling:


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

hilly2008 said:


> it has 3 grams of sugars mate that may kick you out of ketosis causing an insulin spike. you can only try it.
> 
> The fiber thing is an interesting point but if this was correct could you eat higher carb things and take alot of fiber with them to cancel each other out??


No mate it should be ok but i will keep you guys filled in, in my own journal of course as i dont want to hijack dreds journal!

That about the fiber i remember from when i was reading the atkins book as i remember it explaining labels on foods etc and it said that you minus the total fiber from the carbs and thats the carbs that you count so if something is say 20g of carbs but 18g of fiber you only count the 2g of carbs!

Scott or Winger or anyone who has read the atkins book can you illaberate (sp) on this as i dont think i have got it wrong have i :confused1:


----------



## Tall

Chris4Pez said:


> No mate it should be ok but i will keep you guys filled in, in my own journal of course as i dont want to hijack dreds journal!
> 
> That about the fiber i remember from when i was reading the atkins book as i remember it explaining labels on foods etc and it said that you minus the total fiber from the carbs and thats the carbs that you count so if something is say 20g of carbs but 18g of fiber you only count the 2g of carbs!
> 
> Scott or Winger or anyone who has read the atkins book can you illaberate (sp) on this as i dont think i have got it wrong have i :confused1:


The concept is called net carbs, but only works in the states as the UK splits it out.


----------



## hackskii

Chris4Pez said:


> just brought some of this to do this sprt of diet on as even though there is 6g of carbs per serving it also has 7g of fiber which means that the 6g of carbs you can not really count as if there is fiber in the item of food or what ever then you minus the fiber from the carbs and this leavs you the digestable carbs that impact blood sugar and insulin etc as thats what i read in the Atkins book and on other internet sites as well so in essence this actually has no carbs whooo hooooo.
> 
> http://www.dorianyates.eu/product-view.asp?Product=GA10&action=summary


solable or non solable fiber is ok, apple pectin slows digestion as well yet also lowers cholesterol too.



hilly2008 said:


> it has 3 grams of sugars mate that may kick you out of ketosis causing an insulin spike. you can only try it.
> 
> The fiber thing is an interesting point but if this was correct could you eat higher carb things and take alot of fiber with them to cancel each other out??


Yes, but it is best if the fiber is in the food, like apples, cellery, or fiberous green vegetables like broccoli, asperagus, and other fiberous foods like alfalfa tablets.

Remember, fiber does a bunch of lovely things like aid in elimination, slow digestion, lower cholesterol, keep blood sugars level, help to keep hunger at bay, not to mention take extra calories to just digest the fiber.



MissBC said:


> Hilly what fibre supplement are you taking?


Vary your fiber supps, vegetable fibers tend to promote gas.



Tall said:


> The concept is called net carbs, but only works in the states as the UK splits it out.


Net carb is a marketing thing.

But the concept is simple.

Eat a high GI meal, eat a bunch of fiber and the glycemic load of said meal will be lower.

Not sure really but those sugar alcohol carbs are not counted.

Not all fiber is psyllium.......


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

so i should be ok with this as a protein shake for this type of diet???


----------



## Sean Byrne

I weigh 250 lbs what diet do you thinks I should take.


----------



## Sean Byrne

Me lose weight quicker I have heard about taking winstrol and losing a lot of weight.


----------



## DRED

Sean Byrne said:


> I weigh 250 lbs what diet do you thinks I should take.


 For a 250lb+ man:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/T<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 2, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

Meal 3, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 4, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 5, 8oz STEAK with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL<o></o>

8OZ TURKEY<o></o>

8OZ PORK<o></o>

8OZ BEEF<o></o>

<o></o>

Meal 6, 6 whole eggs/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O,3,6,9<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

SUPPS;<o></o>

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO<o></o>

OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9<o></o>

MULTI VIT/MV<o></o>

TRIB/T<o></o>

ZINC/Z<o></o>

PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH<o></o>

<o></o>


----------



## DRED

delts & triceps

delts

db side laterals 4 x 12

cable rear delts 4 x 12

machine press 4 x 12

triceps

v-bar press downs 3 x 15

reverse grip press downs 3 x 15

db kick backs 3 x 15

had a lazy few days felts like ****e,but feeling human again :bounce:


----------



## the_pit_bull

Been on this diet since last monday, so in second week now.

In the first week i dropped half a stone, well in the first 4-5 days really. And i havent dropped an ounce since.

Is weight loss very intermitent on this diet? I was expecting it to be quite consistent?

I am sticking to the diet religiously, training every night with at least 30 mins cardio post workout.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## hilly

just weight yourself the same day every week. i weigh myself every sat morning mate.


----------



## the_pit_bull

OK, cheers. Will start doing that.

Been Weighing every other day.

Its hard to walk past the scales at the gym, always wanna see how im doing, Lol.

Cheers

Gaz


----------



## hackskii

Generally on a keto diet the first week there is alot of water loss.


----------



## hilly

definatly agree with hacksi every1 seems to loose alot of wtare first week or 2. this is expected due to no carbs or cheat meal.


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> just weight yourself the same day every week. i weigh myself every sat morning mate.


i do the same.


----------



## big sy

hi every one

I have been on the keto diet for just over a week now and I'm doing really well, my question is about the carb refeed, I have read in other threads that you do a depletion workout on a Friday and then carb up, but some people say that you have do a complete body workout depletion which I suppose would deplete all your muscles so they would then take in and store all the carbs, I have also read that one guy carbs up after a leg workout which would suit me as Friday is my legs day, so do I have to do a full body depletion or can I just deplete my legs and then carb up?


----------



## Miller

Iv been having aminos in between my lifting and cardio so as not to go into a catabolic state

yet Iv just read on another site that you shouldnt eat or have any supps inbetween, does he have this wrong or do I?


----------



## Robbyg

DP do you use the ketostix to see if your in the zone ? or use the mirror .Im doing a keto diet have been for 4 days and have lost 4lbs already some water weight . Cheers


----------



## Slamdog

Robbyg said:


> DP do you use the ketostix to see if your in the zone ? or use the mirror .Im doing a keto diet have been for 4 days and have lost 4lbs already some water weight . Cheers


I'm 4 days into a keto diet and i use the ketostix. I have yet to do a weigh in but I think I'm down already. I never seem to go into deep ketosis though, only ketting the stix down to the second colour below 0...

maybe i'm not trying hard enough...


----------



## big sy

hi every one

I have been on the keto diet for just over a week now and I'm doing really well, my question is about the carb refeed, I have read in other threads that you do a depletion workout on a Friday and then carb up, but some people say that you have do a complete body workout depletion which I suppose would deplete all your muscles so they would then take in and store all the carbs, I have also read that one guy carbs up after a leg workout which would suit me as Friday is my legs day, so do I have to do a full body depletion or can I just deplete my legs and then carb up?

Also what would my total cals be a day? im 16 stone 10pounds (225pounds) and 26% bf, i worked it out at 12cals per 1 pound of lbm (169 pounds) which equals 2028 cals, this seems very low compeared to the 2484 to 2934 that the keto calculater on another forum site tells me?


----------



## Robbyg

Slamdog said:


> I'm 4 days into a keto diet and i use the ketostix. I have yet to do a weigh in but I think I'm down already. I never seem to go into deep ketosis though, only ketting the stix down to the second colour below 0...
> 
> maybe i'm not trying hard enough...


Thats what colour i have been getting and im lossing weight .I have been reading on a few forums and the think that the pink colour is the best for burning fat off ,so i guess just going to have to wait and see :thumb:


----------



## cecil_sensation

is this keto diet a good diet to use, im lookin to burn fat and bulk muscle. is this a good diet for that. atm i have my own diet which iv created from gettin advice on ere and lookin at the threads. but i woodnt mind tryin this diet see if it helps me get my gains i want?


----------



## big sy

big sy said:


> hi every one
> 
> I have been on the keto diet for just over a week now and I'm doing really well, my question is about the carb refeed, I have read in other threads that you do a depletion workout on a Friday and then carb up, but some people say that you have do a complete body workout depletion which I suppose would deplete all your muscles so they would then take in and store all the carbs, I have also read that one guy carbs up after a leg workout which would suit me as Friday is my legs day, so do I have to do a full body depletion or can I just deplete my legs and then carb up?
> 
> Also what would my total cals be a day? im 16 stone 10pounds (225pounds) and 26% bf, i worked it out at 12cals per 1 pound of lbm (169 pounds) which equals 2028 cals, this seems very low compeared to the 2484 to 2934 that the keto calculater on another forum site tells me?


Anyone?


----------



## Miller

big sy said:


> Anyone?


 16st10 is 234lb

you do not need to do a depletion workout


----------



## SA12

Am I ok to use alternatives to asparagus? If so any suggestions? I was thinking green beans or broccoli?

The rest of the diet seems simple enough so I am going to give it a go.


----------



## big sy

Miller said:


> 16st10 is 234lb
> 
> you do not need to do a depletion workout


thanks for the responce miller, when i work out 16st10 on my phone converter it comes out at 225.3 and with 26bf that should mean im about 169lbs lean so do i work out my daily cals from my lean weight? do you think 2000 cals a day is to high/low?

I just worked out the conversions on paper and it does come to 234lbs so what should my daily cals be?


----------



## Miller

SA12 said:


> Am I ok to use alternatives to asparagus? If so any suggestions? I was thinking green beans or broccoli?
> 
> The rest of the diet seems simple enough so I am going to give it a go.


 i use grean beans, brocolli or cauliflower (or a mix of those 3 with a drop of olive oil on)


----------



## Miller

big sy said:


> thanks for the responce miller, when i work out 16st10 on my phone converter it comes out at 225.3 and with 26bf that should mean im about 169lbs lean so do i work out my daily cals from my lean weight? do you think 2000 cals a day is to high/low?
> 
> I just worked out the conversions on paper and it does come to 234lbs so what should my daily cals be?


i know it all changes at 20%bf+ but Iv never looked into it because Iv got lower than that before starting, Im not sure mate


----------



## SOUTHMAN

Big SY - Train as normal and have a cheat meal once a week, dont overthink it.

SA-12 - you have any cruciform veg, id suggest having a rotation of broccoli, cauliflower, sprouts, green beans.

Asparagus is kinda gross but i find if you eat it enough you just get used to the taste!


----------



## hilly

i tend to eat mostly iceburg lettuce for my veg. i dont haveto cook it its just easy.


----------



## big sy

Thanks for the reply south man, how many cals do you think i should be having? Iv looked on other threads for info and found so many different variations and decided to go wiv 1.5g of protein and 0.5g of fat per lb of lbm making it just over 1800cals, what do you think?


----------



## winger

big sy said:


> Thanks for the reply south man, how many cals do you think i should be having? Iv looked on other threads for info and found so many different variations and decided to go wiv 1.5g of protein and 0.5g of fat per lb of lbm making it just over 1800cals, what do you think?


For your Resting Metabolic Rate or RMR for men is your healthy body weight times 11 calories. Now that is not counting activity.

I had the test done when I was at 202 lbs at 16% bf at a LBM of 169.86 lbs my RMR is 2333 Calories.

You and I have the same LBM so we need the same calories, but let me throw a monkey wrench in there. If you are walking around 25 lbs heavier than me (at the time) then you still have to carry the extra 25 lbs around just walking and moving through space.


----------



## DRED

15.12 this morning...i think the cardio has to start bllocks...


----------



## hilly

^^^^^ hahaha enjoy it mate. nothing better than pre breakfast cardio im just off to do mine now.


----------



## DRED

i am just comin to the end of the 8th week of this diet,how long would it normally run for?


----------



## DRED

*The Diet: *

*
*

*
The premise of the diet is high protein, moderate fat, and very low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis, and uses ketone bodies (fats) for energy. The energy requirements by the body can virtually be completely supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40-50g per workout. You will get this 40-50g indirectly through the foods you eat. As a backup, the re-feed meal, or re-feed day you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. Remember, it takes 3-6 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.*

*
*

*
*

*
**Re-feed:*

*
*

*
After you complete 2 solid weeks (at least 14 days) on the diet, start having a re-feed meal, or re-feed day once per week. Its up to you to figure out which one works best for you. HAVE YOUR RE-FEED ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, and if you choose a one meal re-feed, make it the last meal of the day. Eat what you are craving, but try to avoid trans fats. (hydrogenated oil) *

*
*

*
*

*
**Cardio:*

*
*

*
Cardio should be performed first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach. Do it at low intensity (under 125-130-bpm heart rate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuel source since as your heart rate increases; carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY. Start with 30 minutes, 7 days per week, and work your way up to 45 minutes, 7 days per week. If you need to go up, you can, but don't go over an hour in one session. If you need more, start adding cardio immediately post-workout.*

*
*

*
*

*
**Training:*

*
*

*
Training should be high intensity, lower volume, and a rep range of 6-8. Some may be able to perform 8-10 reps.*

*
*

*
*

*
*

*
**Important Keto Supplements:*

*
*

*
Essential Polyunsaturates:*

*
-Omega-3 Fish Oil (DHA and EPA) 1000mg 3-6 xs per day*

*
*

*
Monounsaturated Fats: *

*
-Macadamia nut oil *

*
-Extra virgin olive oil*

*
-Avocado oil*

*
Monounsaturated fats are NOT essential; but, they ARE very heart healthy.*

*
*

*
Berry Green: All natural supplement supplying 20 organic berries and greens in a pure vegecap. Berry Green also supplies the body with live active cultures (probiotics)*

*
*

*
Psyllium or sugar-free Metamucil: (fiber supplement) 1-teaspoon 2 xs per day, morning and at night mix with 4-6 oz of water. (Work your way to 3tsp per day)*

*
*

*
Pure Creatine-(no carbs) (2 xs per day, morning and post-workout shake) *

*
Leucine- (5g 2 xs per day, Pre and Post-workout shakes) *

*
Whey Isolate-(with 0g fat and 0g carbs)*

*
Multi-Vitamin-(every day)-(with breakfast)*

*
Sea salt-(salt all your food)-(need a high sodium intake)*

*
Coral Calcium- (1500mg per day)-(with meal #2 and before bed)*

*
*

*
**Other supplements:*

*
*

*
NAC- (liver support/antioxidant)-(600mg 2 xs per day)*

*
IDS Glutamine/MSM- (1 serving with breakfast and 1 with meal#4)*

*
Cinnulin PF- (1 serving with creatine in the post-workout shake)*

*
Vitamin C- (500mg 2x per day)-(pre-workout and before bed) *

*
Vitamin E- (400IU 2x per day)-(with meal #2 and #4)*

__________________

just found this on M&D


----------



## big sy

winger said:


> For your Resting Metabolic Rate or RMR for men is your healthy body weight times 11 calories. Now that is not counting activity.
> 
> I had the test done when I was at 202 lbs at 16% bf at a LBM of 169.86 lbs my RMR is 2333 Calories.
> 
> You and I have the same LBM so we need the same calories, but let me throw a monkey wrench in there. If you are walking around 25 lbs heavier than me (at the time) then you still have to carry the extra 25 lbs around just walking and moving through space.


Thanks winger, so i need more than 1800 cals, so what should i up it to? and should i get the cals from the protein, fat or both? and i assume as i drop weight i drop the cals? you can probably tell im not great at working this out! any help is much appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## DRED

big sy said:


> Thanks winger, so i need more than 1800 cals, so what should i up it to? and should i get the cals from the protein, fat or both? and i assume as i drop weight i drop the cals? you can probably tell im not great at working this out! any help is much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.


hi mate i started the diet at 17.7 i am now 15.12 i have not changed what i am eating from day 1.....

i have stuck with the diet i have started(250lb man)....coming up to the ninth week and my weight loss is just starting to slow...

from what i have read i carry on with the same food and amounts and start cardio...


----------



## winger

big sy said:


> Thanks winger, so i need more than 1800 cals, so what should i up it to? and should i get the cals from the protein, fat or both? and i assume as i drop weight i drop the cals? you can probably tell im not great at working this out! any help is much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.


Too many factors to tell.

How much training do you do, your work load, activity level has to be taken into account.

Another factor is some say you need 1.5 grams of protein for a lb of bodyweight. Some say per lean muscle mass.

I would say for an average guy that has an average training routine at 170 lbs of lbm should take in no less then 175 grams of protein.

But this is a keto thread so with less carbs in the diet you will need to up the protein and fats. You are going to have to work the numbers yourself.

Let's say you need 2333 calories to maintain. If you were to drop your calories down by 300 and you still were holding your weight, up it to 500 calories and see what happens.

1 gram of protein is 4 calories.

1 gram of carb is 4 calories.

1 gram of fat is 9 calories.

I will leave the math up to you, or we can try this again.

On a keto diet eat all the protein and fats you want and no more than 20-30 grams of carbs a day for 2 weeks and see what happens. That is the beauty of the keto diet, it is for the simple guy like myself.


----------



## kboy

Dred - Firstly, max respect to you for sticking with it!, I remember reading tthe start of the thread shortly after Xmas, I have followed the thread with interest.

My question is, have you retained most of the muscle mass even with the weight loss?


----------



## big sy

DRED said:


> as from monday 5th jan i will be following the keto diet......
> 
> picture and starting weight to follow.....
> 
> here is the diet.....
> 
> Diet 2009<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> For a 250lb+ man:<o></o>
> 
> Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/T<o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> Meal 2, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>
> 
> Meal 3, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO<o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> Meal 4, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/PH<o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> Meal 5, 8oz STEAK with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL<o></o>
> 
> 8OZ TURKEY<o></o>
> 
> 8OZ PORK<o></o>
> 
> 8OZ BEEF<o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> Meal 6, 6 whole eggs/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O,3,6,9<o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> <o></o>
> 
> SUPPS;<o></o>
> 
> EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO<o></o>
> 
> OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9<o></o>
> 
> MULTI VIT/MV<o></o>
> 
> TRIB/T<o></o>
> 
> ZINC/Z<o></o>
> 
> PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH<o></o>
> 
> <o></o>


 cheers for the input guys, Dred im gonna follow your diet but change a few things, i cant eat nuts cos they make me sick so meal 3 & 5 ill change the turkey to mince beef so im geting my fat from that instead of the peanuts, but as i cant eat nuts what could i replace them with for meal 2 & 4? i might even drop to 5 eggs rather than 6 what do you think?


----------



## DRED

kboy said:


> Dred - Firstly, max respect to you for sticking with it!, I remember reading tthe start of the thread shortly after Xmas, I have followed the thread with interest.
> 
> My question is, have you retained most of the muscle mass even with the weight loss?


i probably lost muscle to as i have had a break from using juice since november...

but planning a come back for that very soon....

but my goal was to loose weight before going back on....


----------



## DRED

big sy said:


> cheers for the input guys, Dred im gonna follow your diet but change a few things, i cant eat nuts cos they make me sick so meal 3 & 5 ill change the turkey to mince beef so im geting my fat from that instead of the peanuts, but as i cant eat nuts what could i replace them with for meal 2 & 4? i might even drop to 5 eggs rather than 6 what do you think?


to be honest i am not sure,but one serving of the nuts was 2oz so if you could find out its content you could look for another food that has similar values....

if the nuts are just for fat purposes you could have extra fish oils and epo...just a thought


----------



## big sy

DRED said:


> to be honest i am not sure,but one serving of the nuts was 2oz so if you could find out its content you could look for another food that has similar values....
> 
> if the nuts are just for fat purposes you could have extra fish oils and epo...just a thought


ok cheers mate ill do that, just another quick one, how do you do your eggs? fried, poached, boiled etc, i know fried eggs have a lot more fat in them.


----------



## DRED

big sy said:


> ok cheers mate ill do that, just another quick one, how do you do your eggs? fried, poached, boiled etc, i know fried eggs have a lot more fat in them.


omellet mate with a rasher of bacon :thumb:


----------



## DRED

back & traps

wide grip pull downs 4 x 12

wide grip low pully row 4 x 12

close grip high pully row 4 x 12

strait arm pull downs 4 x 12

db shrugs 4 x 12


----------



## DRED

cheat meal tonight i went for chinese buffet..omg i am so fookin full and sleepy now :thumb:


----------



## Sean Byrne

How much Leucine do I use after carb up period?


----------



## Miller

how long does everyones cheat meals last for?

by this I mean, do you sit down and eat 1 meal and thats it?

Iv heard people doing from 7pm onwards till they sleep etc

I say this because my cheat on sat lasted a few hours


----------



## SOUTHMAN

mine lasts a few hours dude, ill have a pizza hut and i eat it over a longer period so i can get more in, then i eat a bag of MnM's and some ice cream which takes ages.

I may change this later on if weight loss slows.


----------



## hilly

i let myself eat whatever i want after 7pm


----------



## Miller

thanks lads

I was in town, had a nando's, had to rush home where I had some ice cream, back into town to pick tickets up, home for a bowl of cereal

was about 3 hours in total


----------



## Guest

Miller said:


> how long does everyones cheat meals last for?
> 
> by this I mean, do you sit down and eat 1 meal and thats it?
> 
> Iv heard people doing from 7pm onwards till they sleep etc
> 
> I say this because my cheat on sat lasted a few hours


On this diet its one meal, last meal of the day. not a whole day feed.


----------



## Miller

mikex101 said:


> On this diet its one meal, last meal of the day. not a whole day feed.


 ye I know that mate

what I meant was, whats a 'meal', 30 mins? 2 hours?


----------



## Guest

IMO, one plate and a pudding. so however long it takes you to eat that.


----------



## SOUTHMAN

mikex101 said:


> IMO, one plate and a pudding. so however long it takes you to eat that.


depends how big your plate is and how much you can stack on it!


----------



## jassdhali

DRED said:


> hi mate i started the diet at 17.7 i am now 15.12 i have not changed what i am eating from day 1.....
> 
> i have stuck with the diet i have started(250lb man)....coming up to the ninth week and my weight loss is just starting to slow...
> 
> from what i have read i carry on with the same food and amounts and start cardio...





DRED said:


> i probably lost muscle to as i have had a break from using juice since november...
> 
> but planning a come back for that very soon....
> 
> but my goal was to loose weight before going back on....


Wicked results Dred Respect to you. Considering your weight loss and the fact your saying some of it is muscle, have u achieved results like this over a similar time frame with a normal calorie restricted diet? or was it that this diet was easier for you to stick to?

Would love to hear comments for comparison from anyone else who has done this too :rockon:


----------



## hilly

i have been on the diet 9 weeks and i have droped from 15 stone 7 to 13 stone 9.

Have lost little to 0 muscle and strength has held reasonably well.

downsides for me is i was getting quite regular headaches. allside i feel my blood suagrs have been dropping to low when training sometimes causing an almost hypo experience. this is my fault in general as i have been doing higher rep work 10-15 reps and fst7 sets as well.

This saturday i have come down with a sickness bug which has really nocked me sideways.i will now carb cycle for the last 6-8 weeks of my diet qand evaluate at the end which i prefer.


----------



## Guest

Nice work Hilly. Im down 25lbs in 7&1/2 weeks on a slightly different variation to this diet with increases in strength. I do recon ive dropped some muscle but to be honest, i dont care.

Lets just see if i can get another 25lbs now.



> Would love to hear comments for comparison from anyone else who has done this too


Mate, ive tried restricted cals diet before and to be honest they just dont compare for me. just a different league.


----------



## DRED

had the results of my cholesterol check today,i am a bit gutted because the doctor said the bad cholesterol is high and the good choleserol is low..

total cholesterol 6.6

tryglyceride 3.6

hdl 0.9

cholesterol hdl ratio 7.3

my blood pressure was 130/88

i thought the doctor was going to fall over when i said i eat 12 eggs a day.....

not sure what to do now,whether to carry on with the diet or try something else...


----------



## hackskii

I cant read that as ours is in the hundreds.

I wonder if there is a conversion.

Can you give the refrence ranges?

Are you on a cycle right now?


----------



## DRED

refrence ranges meaning what is high and what is low?

not on a cycle at the moment...

i should of checked it before i started so i could compare...

cheers scott


----------



## hilly

i got mine done middle of feb mate after 6 weeks on the diet.

HDL - 0.60

LDL - 7.8

total - 9.4

ratio 15.7

i am on cycle which maybe why mine is worse than yours mate but it culd be that this diet has a bad effect on your cholestorel level. maybe hacks can shed some light on this.

i am switching to carb cycling after next week as taking this week off due to being ill.

i will get more bloods done after 5 weeks and gear will be kept the same just for experimental reasons to see if it was diet related


----------



## SOUTHMAN

Dred what eggs are you using?


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> i got mine done middle of feb mate after 6 weeks on the diet.
> 
> HDL - 0.60
> 
> LDL - 7.8
> 
> total - 9.4
> 
> ratio 15.7
> 
> i am on cycle which maybe why mine is worse than yours mate but it culd be that this diet has a bad effect on your cholestorel level. maybe hacks can shed some light on this.
> 
> i am switching to carb cycling after next week as taking this week off due to being ill.
> 
> i will get more bloods done after 5 weeks and gear will be kept the same just for experimental reasons to see if it was diet related


what did your doctor say?


----------



## hilly

come off gear lol isnt that what they all say


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> come off gear lol isnt that what they all say


indeed it is :lol:


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> total cholesterol 6.6
> 
> tryglyceride 3.6
> 
> hdl 0.9
> 
> cholesterol hdl ratio 7.3


Total Cholesterol Level

Desirable:

Less than 200 mg/dL or 5.17 mmol/L

Borderline high risk:

200-239 mg/dL or 5.17-6.2 mmol/L

High risk:

240 mg/dL or 6.2 mmol/L and over

LDL Cholesterol Level

Less value of LDL cholesterol is better.

Desirable Levels of LDL cholesterol:

Less than 130 mg/dL or 3.35 mmol/L

Borderline high risk of LDL cholesterol:

130-158 mg/dL or 3.35-4.0 mmol/L

High risk of LDL cholesterol:

160 mg/dL or 4.15 mmol/L and over

HDL Cholesterol Level

High value of HDL cholesterol is better.

Desirable Levels of HDL cholesterol:

more than 40 mg/dL or 1.04 mmol/L.

Ok, I have put the refrence ranges up.

If you took your test after eating a dozen eggs, I bet that would skew it....


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> Dred what eggs are you using?


i am using half normal eggs and half omega 3 eggs....

i might try all omega 3 eggs...

and i guess a bit of cardio wont go a miss...


----------



## hilly

i eat 7 or 8 a day and def had eaten them the morning of my test. some1 told me for a true test it should be done on an empty stomach in the morning.

i was using the same compounds last year while carb cycling and didnt have any cholesterol issues so im switching diet to see if its related


----------



## SOUTHMAN

DRED said:


> i am using half normal eggs and half omega 3 eggs....
> 
> i might try all omega 3 eggs...
> 
> and i guess a bit of cardio wont go a miss...


I was more thinking that perhaps the cheap and nasty eggs could make a difference? they obv's aint fed as well as free range chickens.

I did read something by MXD suggesting omega 3 eggs aren't that great for you because of the food the chickens are fed on. Ill have to ask him


----------



## DRED

hackskii said:


> Total Cholesterol Level
> 
> Desirable:
> 
> Less than 200 mg/dL or 5.17 mmol/L
> 
> Borderline high risk:
> 
> 200-239 mg/dL or 5.17-6.2 mmol/L
> 
> High risk:
> 
> 240 mg/dL or 6.2 mmol/L and over
> 
> LDL Cholesterol Level
> 
> Less value of LDL cholesterol is better.
> 
> Desirable Levels of LDL cholesterol:
> 
> Less than 130 mg/dL or 3.35 mmol/L
> 
> Borderline high risk of LDL cholesterol:
> 
> 130-158 mg/dL or 3.35-4.0 mmol/L
> 
> High risk of LDL cholesterol:
> 
> 160 mg/dL or 4.15 mmol/L and over
> 
> HDL Cholesterol Level
> 
> High value of HDL cholesterol is better.
> 
> Desirable Levels of HDL cholesterol:
> 
> more than 40 mg/dL or 1.04 mmol/L.
> 
> Ok, I have put the refrence ranges up.
> 
> If you took your test after eating a dozen eggs, I bet that would skew it....


nice work there scott reps for you mate.....

i had to fast for 14 hours before the blood test...

looks like i am high risk on the total cholesterol

high risk on ldl...

and low on the hdl which should be higher..


----------



## DRED

i think vit b can help lower cholesterol.....

i guess if i up the fish oils and evening primrose oil that should bring up the good cholesterol...


----------



## hilly

im taking around 1og of omega 3 and epo combined mate and have been right the way thru


----------



## hackskii

Ok, lets just do this the easy way for now.

Here is a list of things that will help you lower your LDL's, triglycerides, and support your HDL's

Solable fiber would be a very good thing.

Panthenine

Apple pectin

Fish oils

Garlic

niacin

Bioslife2

Red Rice Yeast (acts like a mild Statin).

IP-6

I guarantee if you play around with some of these you should lower your cholesterol a ton.

Cardio increases HDL's too, so dont shy away from that.

I know DP suggests low heart rate cardio but that wont do much for HDL's.

Bioslife 2 is basicly solable fiber that is like eating 20 apples in a day, that stuff works very well but is pricey, apple pectin if taken with meals will slow digestion and actually lower the glycemic load of a meal.

Taking the fish oils with that even further slows the digestion down.

Add a non solable fiber and this will even lower it even more.


----------



## hilly

thnks hacks ure a superstar reps


----------



## hackskii

Well, I have tried every one of those and it goes something like this.

Fish oils hammer down triglycerides and totally help joint stiffness, high blood pressure and also lowers cholesterol.

The bioslife does work, it works very well but is totally expensive, basicly is a solable fiber.

Garlic I didnt notice much with, wheather it be blood pressure, or cholesterol, but it has some of the best anti-fungal properties and also, anti-parasitic properties, and they do give that to dogs to pass worms.

Niacin seemed to help, but the flushing was psycho, so you have two choices here, get the coated one where it releases past the stomach and wont flush you, or take an aspirin 20 minutes before you take the niacin.

We used to use that in school to flush ourselves so we would get sent home.

Panthenine, well although I just bought some, I have only used it a couple of times but a buddy of mine with cholesterol far worse than yours, used this with very good success.

Apple pectin has more than one application, it totally helps lower the GL of a meal, improves cholesterol, and is said to help the intestines, acts as an anti-oxidant against cholesterol, studies in Japan suggests apple pectin can lower incidence of colon cancer, helps to regulate blood pressure, aiding at preventing gall stones, and promote insulin sensitivity.

Twin labs makes a good apple pectin.

Red rice yeast actually acts similar to a mild statin on the liver, so between the red rice yeast, the fish oils and the apple pectin, you should be just fine, but no problems throwing the kitchen sink at it.

Truth be told, if you take another test in like 6 to 8 weeks, your doctor will be looking at you like how the hell did you do that.

Remember, other factors is genetic disposition, age, if you are on gear (especially orals), amount of exercise, diet, large meals, among other things.


----------



## DRED

nice couple of posts scott


----------



## DRED

ok i have seen red rice yeast on myprotein....

where can i get apple pectin?

cheers


----------



## Slamdog

DRED said:


> ok i have seen red rice yeast on myprotein....
> 
> where can i get apple pectin?
> 
> cheers


tesco... in the home baking section... used in jam making.


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> ok i have seen red rice yeast on myprotein....
> 
> where can i get apple pectin?
> 
> cheers


Twin labs has a good product.


----------



## hackskii

Yes canning stuff does have pectin....


----------



## winger

Total Cholesterol Level

High risk: total cholesterol 6.6

240 mg/dL or 6.2 mmol/L and over

HDL Cholesterol Level

High value of HDL cholesterol is better.

Desirable Levels of HDL cholesterol:

more than 40 mg/dL or 1.04 mmol/L. hdl 0.9

total cholesterol 6.6

triglyceride 3.6

hdl 0.9

cholesterol hdl ratio 7.3

Where is the LDL's?


----------



## Robbyg

Myprotein sell apple pectin


----------



## Robbyg

Anywhere in the uk to buy bioslife ?


----------



## hackskii

Robbyg said:


> Anywhere in the uk to buy bioslife ?


Bioslife2 is the next gen stuff.

I had a buddy on that and the doctor asked him what in the hell he was doing because he lowered his cholesterol so fast.

This dude liked it so much he started selling it.

He swore up and down that he had more energy and felt better.


----------



## Robbyg

Been reading up on the stuff sure does the job Scott


----------



## hackskii

Here are some studies on it:

http://www.unicityscience.org/products_bios_life_clinicals.html

Here is the bioslife web site: http://www.bioslife.com/custom/bioslife_corporate/faq.html


----------



## learner23

dred - ive started a thread on losing weight section called -"dp keto diet for holiday" would be grateful of some advice as ive just started the diet and know you are doin well with it, thanks :beer:


----------



## DRED

i am going to carry on with the diet till the end of the month and then go on to high protien moderate carbs and fats...

should i go strait into that or re-introduce the carbs slowly?


----------



## hilly

re introduce carbs slowly i would say mate. will you still be dieting or you guna bulk?


----------



## hackskii

Yah, I used a half an apple a day extra to bump the carbs slowly.

Start slow.


----------



## Miller

Im so tired and depleted this week, I normally do office work but since last weds Iv been doing manual work and only hit the gym 3 times in the past 7 days, havent done a minute of cardio

I think Im gonna re-introduce carbs in around 2 weeks, my plan is then to start carb cycling come april, anyone think this is a good idea?


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> re introduce carbs slowly i would say mate. will you still be dieting or you guna bulk?


i will still be dieting its just been the last couple of weeks i have been finding it hard to train after a days work....

so i am gonna start bringing the carbs in slow as advised and start dropping the eggs...

i have red rice yeast to help bring my high cholesterol down(bit worried about that)

so are we saying an apple a day to start with?

cheers guys you have all been great with this and i will use this keto diet again... :beer:


----------



## hilly

im the same mate after 8-9 weeks i was getting really exhausted and have come down with a bug thats caused me to loose 9 pound this week,

i am going to be carb cycling for the next 6-8 weeks the diet is outlined in my journal so i will see how that goes.


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> im the same mate after 8-9 weeks i was getting really exhausted and have come down with a bug thats caused me to loose 9 pound this week,
> 
> i am going to be carb cycling for the next 6-8 weeks the diet is outlined in my journal so i will see how that goes.


i was thinking about carb cycling...Kezz is doin it?


----------



## Miller

before too long this topic will turn into a carb cycling one haha

after a bit of research, I think Im going to do some carb cycling, Iv read contrasting views on fats though which is confusing me


----------



## hilly

personally i think the keto diet is good for either some1 starting at a higher bodyfat or as a jump start in a diet.


----------



## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> personally i think the keto diet is good for either some1 starting at a higher bodyfat or as a jump start in a diet.


i agree and it so easy to follow as long as you dont over complicate things..


----------



## Kezz

if i was you i would get on to carb cycling now but hammer the cardio and i doubt you will have any problem with putting carbs in every day, that will kick start your fat loss again and i can guarantee it !!!


----------



## SOUTHMAN

keep everyone informed how the carb cycling is going dredd,

Im seeing (small) daily changes on this diet now so im not going to come off it untill im where i want to be. Ive slightly changed training and it seems to have set my metabolism on fire lol


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> keep everyone informed how the carb cycling is going dredd,
> 
> Im seeing (small) daily changes on this diet now so im not going to come off it untill im where i want to be. Ive slightly changed training and it seems to have set my metabolism on fire lol


starting carb cycling as from monday so got the weekend to eat what i like....

gonna do morning cardio from the start with this one...should of with the keto :whistling:

will be an hours brisk walk with the dog at 5am:lol: :lol: :lol:

good luck with yours mate,your body will tell when its time to finish with the diet....


----------



## SOUTHMAN

morning cardio sucks ass lol not one minute of it do i find enjoyable lol


----------



## hilly

haha tell me about it ive been doing 45 mins for the last 5 weeks at 6am very enjoyable


----------



## DRED

ok final weigh in today for this diet and i am 15.9 :thumb:

thats a total loss of 26 pounds in 9 weeks...

other than running out of steam by the end of the day,which is having a knock on with my training i feel great...

this diet is the first i have stuck to,also doin this thread has helped..

thanks for everyones input it has all helped...

i hope others can learn from this...

i will start a new carb cycling thread next week...

i know i have lost some size on this diet which i put down to no juice..

good luck to everyone on the keto diet :beer: :beer:


----------



## Kezz

you got some after diet pics??


----------



## DRED

Kezz said:


> you got some after diet pics??


i will do some today to be honest i feel small :confused1:

but went to the gym this morning in town insted of training at home and someone who i aint seen for ages said i looked bigger...


----------



## SOUTHMAN

for sure dude, when your cut you look bigger even if you aint lol.

Dont think of it as feeling small think of it as feeling lean!


----------



## DRED

SOUTHMAN said:


> for sure dude, when your cut you look bigger even if you aint lol.
> 
> Dont think of it as feeling small think of it as feeling lean!


i know one thing when i do this keto again i will do cardio from the start..

no 6 pack at the moment but watch this space lol


----------



## winger

Good job DRED. I really doubt you look small. :whistling:


----------



## hackskii

A few carbs today will make you swell.

Then you can take some pics.......


----------



## weightgainer

Hey guys im doin this keto diet but with alot less calorific content as i am not quiet as big as u beasts  However i have one small problem. Im 3 days into this new diet, doing cardo in the morning, and evening with some circuit training thrown in, eating the same sort of foods as the original poster but i am suffereing from diarrhea, any advice on how to cure this?


----------



## hackskii

Immodium AD


----------



## DRED

weightgainer said:


> Hey guys im doin this keto diet but with alot less calorific content as i am not quiet as big as u beasts  However i have one small problem. Im 3 days into this new diet, doing cardo in the morning, and evening with some circuit training thrown in, eating the same sort of foods as the original poster but i am suffereing from diarrhea, any advice on how to cure this?


the first few days i had the trotts i put it down to rich eggs so split them into half normal eggs and half omega 3 eggs...

also a side effect from evening primrose oil is the ****s...


----------



## wardster27

weightgainer said:


> Hey guys im doin this keto diet but with alot less calorific content as i am not quiet as big as u beasts  However i have one small problem. Im 3 days into this new diet, doing cardo in the morning, and evening with some circuit training thrown in, eating the same sort of foods as the original poster but i am suffereing from diarrhea, any advice on how to cure this?


be careful with circuit training if your body is not running of carbs. low intensity long duration is best . i dont follow this diet but when i did i was so weak , done few rounds on bag one night and thought was gonna collapse


----------



## weightgainer

wardster27 said:


> be careful with circuit training if your body is not running of carbs. low intensity long duration is best . i dont follow this diet but when i did i was so weak , done few rounds on bag one night and thought was gonna collapse


Does that go the same for cardio, strictly keep it to 65% MHR, no interval training on a bike? Also should i up my dose of psyllium husk to try and counteract the effects, dont really know wher i can get omega eggs from :S


----------



## DRED

omega 3 eggs tesco.morrisons.sainsburys.....

psyllium husks wont stop the ****s mate....

as above no heavy cardio brisk walking on the treadmill should do it...


----------



## wardster27

weightgainer said:


> Does that go the same for cardio, strictly keep it to 65% MHR, no interval training on a bike? Also should i up my dose of psyllium husk to try and counteract the effects, dont really know wher i can get omega eggs from :S


inreval training on a bike would definately be better than circuit training because your on your own and can go at own pace and own time.

circuit training you could be forced to going harder than you want and could end up embarrasing if you dont perform in front of others in class especially good looking girls 

if you want to add some sort of high intensity training for fitness levels do it the day after the carb up.

fat loss training should be low intensity but i agree everyone needs a good high intensity cardio session to get the heart working and the lungs cleared. just make sure you have intensity to do it


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi guys not been here for a while, but still on the diet lol, lost about a stone in weight and some is definately muscle, just got a question it may already have been asked but if not someone should answer hopefully cardio, DP says it should be done at 120bpm i just wondered what the rest of you guys have been doing and if you think that 120 bpm is a little to slow for burning fat any feed back welcome cheers.


----------



## DRED

if you go for high impact cardio it will burn muscle to....

your better with brisk walking...


----------



## learner23

dred, have you used keto sticks at all in ur diet, if so can u have a look at my thread called keto sticks plz mate


----------



## gibbsy07

DRED said:


> if you go for high impact cardio it will burn muscle to....
> 
> your better with brisk walking...


Thanks dred i will stick to 120bpm then just checking cheers.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi dred just read back a bit and read you were going to be carb cycling next, don't know much about it mate but i look forward to following your thread, cheers.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi quick question, if i take creatine when on keto, will it put more stress on the liver thanks.


----------



## hilly

ull be fine


----------



## DRED

learner23 said:


> dred, have you used keto sticks at all in ur diet, if so can u have a look at my thread called keto sticks plz mate


i never bothered with the keto sticks....i will next time.

a couple of people have on this thread maybe they can advise :thumb:


----------



## DRED

i am taking red rice yeast caps for the high cholesterol count i had...

was thinking about niacin but i am guessing the flushing it causes is not a red face but more your guts emptying?


----------



## hackskii

DRED said:


> i am taking red rice yeast caps for the high cholesterol count i had...
> 
> was thinking about niacin but i am guessing the flushing it causes is not a red face but more your guts emptying?


I actually hate that feeling of flushing, and it will make your face red and your skin will feel itchy, actually unconfortable.

It does work nice and if you take an aspirin about 20 minutes before the niacin then you should be good to go.

Or get the coated ones that unload in the intestines so you wont get flushing.

As kids we used to take it during school and say we felt sick and went to the nurse's office. She would take one look at you and send you home..


----------



## DRED

hackskii said:


> I actually hate that feeling of flushing, and it will make your face red and your skin will feel itchy, actually unconfortable.
> 
> It does work nice and if you take an aspirin about 20 minutes before the niacin then you should be good to go.
> 
> Or get the coated ones that unload in the intestines so you wont get flushing.
> 
> As kids we used to take it during school and say we felt sick and went to the nurse's office. She would take one look at you and send you home..


lol sick note


----------



## Miller

think Iv had my last weigh in on this now, been doing it for 4 weeks and 4 days so far, dropped a stone, happy with that

going to carb up tomorow and then run this into wednesday maybe thursday next week and then start introducing carbs again

anybody got any ideas of how best to start introducing carbs again?


----------



## DRED

slowly....


----------



## Miller

was thinking of just have carbs at breakfast for 2 or 3 days then move into pwo for a few days and then pre workout a few days later

so after about 10-12 days I can start carb cycling

you think this is any good?

will the water just pile on otherwise?


----------



## DRED

i finished mine on a friday,eat anything i could and just started carb cycling on the monday...

no sign of blowing up with water as of yet..


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi hope everyone has not deserted this thread but i have a question about cardio again, 120bpm and you will burn fat and not use carbs, does this rule apply even when you are not on a keto style diet, would just like to know thanks.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi hope everyone has not deserted this thread but i have a question about cardio again, 120bpm and you will burn fat and not use carbs, does this rule apply even when you are not on a keto style diet, would just like to know thanks.


i think you keep the heart rate low on low carb/keto diets because you dont have any fuel so to speak...and your body would use muscle as fuel..

on a diet with more carbs its there to burn so you can up the heart rate..


----------



## mattiasl

Hi i´m on DP ketodiet now and i can´t find how to do last week before competition? anybody?


----------



## hilly

no1 will no mate thats what he charges for i reckon.

have a search on rxmuscle thats his new site their maybe some info.


----------



## gibbsy07

DRED said:


> i think you keep the heart rate low on low carb/keto diets because you dont have any fuel so to speak...and your body would use muscle as fuel..
> 
> on a diet with more carbs its there to burn so you can up the heart rate..


Thanks dred mate.


----------



## gibbsy07

Hi dred have you started carb cycling yet, i was looking for your thread but couldn't find anything.


----------



## DRED

gibbsy07 said:


> Hi dred have you started carb cycling yet, i was looking for your thread but couldn't find anything.


 http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/members-pictures/54353-dreds-mission.html

there you go mate


----------



## gibbsy07

cheers mate.


----------



## Samir Oukili

Is stenizil a steroid ?

Im 17 and what to become a fitness model could anyone give me some tips


----------



## EDG301

Samir Oukili said:


> Is stenizil a steroid ?
> 
> Im 17 and what to become a fitness model could anyone give me some tips


Mate, start a new thread in another section. This is someone elses thread


----------



## winger

Samir Oukili said:


> Is stenizil a steroid ?
> 
> Im 17 and what to become a fitness model could anyone give me some tips


Just did a yahoo search and here you go mate and welcome to the board.


----------



## scot.r111

Hi Dred!

I just wondered how things are going on the Keto diet. I am looking for a good one to follow and without much experience saw yours as a good option. Has it been effective?

Cheers

Scott


----------



## DRED

scot.r111 said:


> Hi Dred!
> 
> I just wondered how things are going on the Keto diet. I am looking for a good one to follow and without much experience saw yours as a good option. Has it been effective?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Scott


hello mate i did the keto for about 10 weeks and that was plenty long enough for me,i went on to a carb cycling diet and could not stick to it..

i have just been watching what i eat monday to friday eating clean and saturday and sunday eating what i like and the weight has stayed of.if anything i have loost a few more pounds..

i am weighing 15.5 at the moment and its a good weight for me.

good luck with your diet mate :thumb:


----------



## scot.r111

Hi there,

I'm going to give the diet you posted starting tomorrow, hopefully it will give me similar results to yours. It's really good to hear the weight has stayed off with just watching what you eat Mon-Fri, this also gives me a long term plan when the diet is over. I do eat very carefully now and can hold my weight static, just losing the few pounds is difficult.

The post was a really good one, cheers for putting it together and making it available.

Best of luck for the future,

Scott


----------



## SHAROOTS

Dred how much bodyfat did you lose m8, I done the keto diet before and lost a stone and kept it off until I started gear bout 5 weeks ago.


----------



## DRED

SHAROOTS said:


> Dred how much bodyfat did you lose m8, I done the keto diet before and lost a stone and kept it off until I started gear bout 5 weeks ago.


i lost some muscle size,but its goin back on slowly which is where i went wrong in the past...

thinking bulking was eating anything that moved....lesson learnt :thumb:

i am in 34 waist jeans now which are not tight,i was only a 32 waist when i left school all those years ago so a major step forward for me..

i never did any cardio with the diet and still not now,well except for dog walking...but my job is pretty hands on so my cardio is there i guess.

good luck mate


----------



## ragahav

First of all a very good and educative thread ..I just started reading will gonna take a long time before I can catch up ...

I have been educating myself about keto diet lately because I am planning to be on it in near future ...

one question if one were to start keto diet, should one start it instantaneously or easy oneself into it ...say gradually reducing carb and increasing fat over the time...


----------



## DRED

ragahav said:


> First of all a very good and educative thread ..I just started reading will gonna take a long time before I can catch up ...
> 
> I have been educating myself about keto diet lately because I am planning to be on it in near future ...
> 
> one question if one were to start keto diet, should one start it instantaneously or easy oneself into it ...say gradually reducing carb and increasing fat over the time...


i just went strait into the keto diet mate.


----------



## hackskii

If you do start the keto diet, be prepaired for some constipation, fiber will help here.

Dont forget to take some essential oils and a good multivitamin as well.


----------



## DRED

hackskii said:


> If you do start the keto diet, be prepaired for some constipation, fiber will help here.
> 
> Dont forget to take some essential oils and a good multivitamin as well.


lol agreed dont forget the fibre as scott said or you will be dumping logs mate :lol:


----------



## Miller

Im going to do this diet for 8 weeks again through July, August

Im not really looking forward to it but Iv found when Im doing a normal cutting diet, I am nowhere near as strict as I am on this and so the results are nowhere near as good, end up cutting for longer etc etc


----------



## jamboo

where is some information on keto diet? i have enjoyed reading a few pages of this thread i was wondering if there is any expert explanation, im thinking of hitting this diet and wana know exactly what i need to do.


----------



## winger

Here is a pdf from Lyle McDonald that I found. It's called the Ketogenic Diet, Click here.


----------



## ste247

check this out dave palumbo taliking on this diet, it a very good watch go to www.probodybuilding.com and it near the botton of the page.........


----------



## winger

Those were the best videos ever.


----------



## winger

So impressed with the videos I decided to make it even easier.

Dave Palumbo's videos on nutrition.

Click here.

Click here.

Click here.


----------



## DRED

nice one winger


----------



## Big Dawg

Started a few days ago on Dave's 250lb plan. Only problem with this diet, as with others, is that I'm fcuking starving all the time. So I've been eating pretty much at maintenance calories for the past 2 or 3 days until I get into ketosis, then I'll start cutting them back. Will get some eph in next week to help with the appetite as well.

Anyone know where you get psyllium husks or any other form of fibre supplement from?


----------



## DRED

holland n barrett mate


----------



## Big Dawg

DRED said:


> holland n barrett mate


Cheers mate. Isn't one in my town unfortunately, but just checked and tesco sell it, so i'll drop by on the way to work.

Did you follow Dave's outline strictly mate or did you vary it? I'm having severe hunger issues on his 250lb+ plan as it only works out at around 2500 calories. Apparently once I'm in ketosis my appetite will be under control.


----------



## DRED

i never had no hunger issues what so ever mate..

i had issues with upset tummy when starting the diet and after my cheat meal suffered with joint pain when goin back into ketosis.

i added some bacon to my 6 egg ommelet other than that and my cheat meal i ate the same thing every day.


----------



## M_at

I'm about to start a keto diet too

I have my meat, my eggs, my oil and vinegar, cod liver oil with multivits, omega 3,6,9 oil capsules, fibre sachets, acceptable greens, vitamin c tablets - have I missed anything that would help?


----------



## Big Dawg

M_at said:


> I'm about to start a keto diet too
> 
> I have my meat, my eggs, my oil and vinegar, cod liver oil with multivits, omega 3,6,9 oil capsules, fibre sachets, acceptable greens, vitamin c tablets - have I missed anything that would help?


Protein powder and peanut butter by the sounds of it. Unless you also have those. No need for 3,6,9 IMO; you only need omega 3 to balance out your ratios. You'll be getting no end of omega 6 from the dietary fat anyway.

But sounds like you've got it pretty much sorted. I've been on it for about 3 days, but finding it very hard until I'm fat adapted. Have been having very high fats to aid my appetite and the process. The cutting officially starts tomorrow though, and I will be following Dave's diet to a tee.


----------



## M_at

Ahh forgot the protein powder in the list - the peanut butter will not be part of my routine as I don't react well to it.

I'll try and get some other nuts that I don't hate as much in but I'm putting a little more oil into the diet.

Regarding the protein powder I'm currently using PHD's Pharma Whey which has about 1.5g of carbs per scoop (1 to 1.5 scoops per serving) - do all protein powders contain a little amount of carbs or is there a better option?


----------



## Big Dawg

M_at said:


> Ahh forgot the protein powder in the list - the peanut butter will not be part of my routine as I don't react well to it.
> 
> I'll try and get some other nuts that I don't hate as much in but I'm putting a little more oil into the diet.
> 
> Regarding the protein powder I'm currently using PHD's Pharma Whey which has about 1.5g of carbs per scoop (1 to 1.5 scoops per serving) - do all protein powders contain a little amount of carbs or is there a better option?


All contain a small amount mate, some more than others. Dave specifically states that whey isolate should be used as this contains very little carbs. I think the one his supplement company develops has less than 1g carbs per 100g. However, whey isolate is far more expensive and I refuse to pay over the odds when all you need to do is make sure you stay below 30g carbs a day. I'm currently on 17.3g carbs with two shakes that yield 6.4g carbs each including the PB. However, the carbs in other meals are virtually nil, so it's not a problem.

Just be very careful with nuts and anything which contains carbs as it's easy to overshoot. Check diet drinks very carefully if you have them - you must check everything. The only foods which are pretty much completely carb free are cheese (has 0.1g per 100g, but this is fcuk all), eggs, meat and fish IIRC. Anything derived from dairy will have carbs in it, as will anything with nuts.

If you don't like PB, have some form of oil or double cream in your shakes, but make sure the calories are equal to the amount of PB you should be having. I have chicken breast and pesto for my lean protein meal - less carbs in pesto, all the ingredients are fine, mixes better than PB (although PB and chicken is a good combo), and 40g pesto has the same cals as 30g PB. Winner IMO!

Here's my starting plan:

06:00

30 mins cardio

06:45

6 whole eggs

10:00

50g protein powder

30g peanut butter

13:00

200g chicken breast

40g pesto

16:00

50g protein powder

30g peanut butter

17:30

Train - 45 mins

19:00

200g lean steak mince

100g green beans

1 tbsp EVOO

21:30

6 whole eggs

10 fish oil caps daily

Totals (cals/carbs/protein/fat) - 2753/17.3/258.7/173.4


----------



## Finchy

I've been reading about low carb diets recently, and one of the listed downsides is that Ketosis can cause bad breath.

Has anybody had this problem?


----------



## Heineken

Rather than start my own thread..

A few questions. Eggs, I'm not shelling out nearly 3 quid for a box of 6 omega 3 eggs, no f*cking way. I'm thinking regular eggs and some omega 3 tabs will be near enough the same, no?

I've used the macro guidlines, I'm just short of 200lbs however I've calculated everything in accordance to my lean body weight, surely if you're eating eating like a 200lb man when in actuality your lean weight is much less, you're not going to have as pronounced results?

I'll suck it and see for now, see how my first week goes.


----------



## M_at

Finchy said:


> I've been reading about low carb diets recently, and one of the listed downsides is that Ketosis can cause bad breath.
> 
> Has anybody had this problem?


No


----------



## Big Dawg

Finchy said:


> I've been reading about low carb diets recently, and one of the listed downsides is that Ketosis can cause bad breath.
> 
> Has anybody had this problem?


I haven't yet, but I do carry a bottle of mouthwash around with me just in case it ever kicks in. Only do this as I can't eat sugar free gum while on keto.



Heinkeken said:


> Rather than start my own thread..
> 
> A few questions. Eggs, I'm not shelling out nearly 3 quid for a box of 6 omega 3 eggs, no f*cking way. I'm thinking regular eggs and some omega 3 tabs will be near enough the same, no?
> 
> I've used the macro guidlines, I'm just short of 200lbs however I've calculated everything in accordance to my lean body weight, surely if you're eating eating like a 200lb man when in actuality your lean weight is much less, you're not going to have as pronounced results?
> 
> I'll suck it and see for now, see how my first week goes.


Regular eggs with omega 3 tabs will be fine. Also whey concentrate instead of isolate will be fine as long as you stay under 30g carbs.

Just follow the 200lb plan - it's under 2500 cals anyway, so I wouldn't reduce it any more.


----------



## Heineken

Cheers Al


----------



## defdaz

M_at said:


> Ahh forgot the protein powder in the list - the peanut butter will not be part of my routine as I don't react well to it.
> 
> I'll try and get some other nuts that I don't hate as much in but I'm putting a little more oil into the diet.
> 
> Regarding the protein powder I'm currently using PHD's Pharma Whey which has about 1.5g of carbs per scoop (1 to 1.5 scoops per serving) - do all protein powders contain a little amount of carbs or is there a better option?


Walnuts are a good option - great for a healthy heart and lower in carbs than peanuts.

I'm in the same boat as Al - cheap whey concentrate is fine for me as I get such low carbs anyway. I've lost five or six pounds in a week so far. :thumbup1:


----------



## Big Dawg

defdaz said:


> Walnuts are a good option - great for a healthy heart and lower in carbs than peanuts.
> 
> I'm in the same boat as Al - cheap whey concentrate is fine for me as I get such low carbs anyway. I've lost five or six pounds in a week so far. :thumbup1:


I use nutrisport 90+ mate, which is a combo of whey isolate and micellar casein. Far superior to unflavoured whey concentrate, but it's more or less the same price.


----------



## Heineken

Just had a thought.

1/2 a cup of cashews, 1/2 cup almonds, that's about as useful to me as saying half a wheelbarrow of f*cking butter lol

Had a quick look around online but haven't found anything of yet, any ideas chaps?


----------



## Big Dawg

Heinkeken said:


> Just had a thought.
> 
> 1/2 a cup of cashews, 1/2 cup almonds, that's about as useful to me as saying half a wheelbarrow of f*cking butter lol
> 
> Had a quick look around online but haven't found anything of yet, any ideas chaps?


What are you talking about? A cup is a measure of volume commonly used in America. Cup measurers are available readily in the UK - just go to wilcos. You can usually get a pack with 1/4 cup, 1/2 cup, 1/3 cup, 1 cup measurers inside for about £1. And if you just google "almonds nutritional information" it comes up with loads of sites with nutritional info. Took me about 30 secs to find out that 1/2 cup of almonds is 71g.


----------



## Heineken

We aren't in America last time I checked, so obviously, I've never measured things out in cups Al. Considering cups come in an unlimited number of differing capacities, and given that I have already said we don't use that measuring system here I'm sure you can probably understand my confusion, no?

Thank you for reminding me about calorieking though, I wouldn't have thought about that.


----------



## Heineken

And for anyone else that gets stumped by this (doubt it's just me) 1/2 cup of cashews is approx 60g


----------



## Big Dawg

Heinkeken said:


> We aren't in America last time I checked, so obviously, I've never measured things out in cups Al. Considering cups come in an unlimited number of differing capacities, and given that I have already said we don't use that measuring system here I'm sure you can probably understand my confusion, no?
> 
> Thank you for reminding me about calorieking though, I wouldn't have thought about that.


It's not obvious mate. I'm not American and I've been measuring things in cups for years. Thought it was common knowledge tbh, so being a legitimate measurement, I'm afraid it's nothing like saying "a wheelbarrow full of butter". That being said, I do tend to use my scales to measure everything as I'd rather measure things by grams than by cups.


----------



## M_at

The cup is a standard measurement.

Go to your local department store/big supermarket and get a set of cup measures.

I've got a couple and it's interesting how many foodstuffs seem to naturally be served in a 1/3, 1/2 or 1 cup amount.

Porridge - 1/2 cup + 1 cup liquid for example.


----------



## DRED

Heinkeken said:


> Rather than start my own thread..
> 
> A few questions. Eggs, I'm not shelling out nearly 3 quid for a box of 6 omega 3 eggs, no f*cking way. I'm thinking regular eggs and some omega 3 tabs will be near enough the same, no?
> 
> I've used the macro guidlines, I'm just short of 200lbs however I've calculated everything in accordance to my lean body weight, surely if you're eating eating like a 200lb man when in actuality your lean weight is much less, you're not going to have as pronounced results?
> 
> I'll suck it and see for now, see how my first week goes.


sadly dog breath can happen,as my other half told me


----------



## defdaz

My pee smells of bacon wheat crunchies at the moment, bizarre!  :lol:

Edit: Er... I am on the keto diet so this isn't just me being random lol!


----------



## DRED

mine used to smell like sugar puffs lol


----------



## dale_flex

Hi dred been trying to work my way through your journal it's a great read. Just wondering did you work your macro's out for your starting bodyweight or your lean bodyweight? Thanks Dale


----------



## DRED

dale_flex said:


> Hi dred been trying to work my way through your journal it's a great read. Just wondering did you work your macro's out for your starting bodyweight or your lean bodyweight? Thanks Dale


hi mate i just took the diet that DP said to use for a 250lb man,i never worked anything out regarding macro,s....

i never worked out my lean body weight before starting the diet,just jumped on the scales and went from there :beer:


----------



## DRED

i am thinkin about goin back on the keto diet,my problem is i am workin away at the moment so dont have access to a kitchen.....so need some ideas for what to eat..

i can deal with most things like cooked chicken,nuts.....its the eggs i am gonna have trouble with...

any ideas


----------



## dale_flex

Liquid egg whites with fat supplement maybe udo's? Just drink it?


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## DRED

dale_flex said:


> Liquid egg whites with fat supplement maybe udo's? Just drink it?


nice one i will check it out :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

dale_flex said:


> Liquid egg whites with fat supplement maybe udo's? Just drink it?


Oh, that would be tasty. :whistling:


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## MissBC

hackskii said:


> Oh, that would be tasty. :whistling:


yea tasty like an unwashed ass........ :confused1:


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## hackskii

MissBC said:


> yea tasty like an unwashed ass........ :confused1:


Egg whites are slimey, udos doesnt taste good, the combination of the two would be hard to keep down. :blink:


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## DRED

MissBC said:


> yea tasty like an unwashed ass........ :confused1:


nice :lol: :lol:


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## MissBC

DRED said:


> nice :lol: :lol:


hahahahahahaha

im so friggen lucky that my keto breath is not really existent ....... i would seriously have some issues continuing if it was!! Think i have been doing it long enough now its normalized, it was bad when i first started! :laugh:

i love keto though!!!


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## dale_flex

hackskii said:


> Egg whites are slimey, udos doesnt taste good, the combination of the two would be hard to keep down. :blink:


 He didin't ask for something that tasted good

Personally don't mind drinking the liquid egg whites don't find them slimey more like skimmed milk consistancy, and i didn't mean to mix them just drink the egg whites then take the udo's of a spoon. Not gourmet i know but very quick easy keto feed. :thumb:


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## DRED

ok i have decided to go back on the keto diet but need to adjust it due to work...

i need to find an alternative to the 6eggs for my last meal as i will be at work...

so i need something with the values of 6 omega 3 eggs? all the other foods i can take with me just carnt make eggs at work and dont fancy 6 hard boiled eggs.

this time round i will be using peds


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## DRED

will post stats and starting picture tomorrow


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## MissBC

just copy another meal you have had that day!! easier no?


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## DRED

MissBC said:


> just copy another meal you have had that day!! easier no?


i guess so and supplement the fish oils in for the fats


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## hilly

chicken,olive oil, beef, salmon


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## DRED

hilly2008 said:


> chicken,olive oil, beef, salmon


i will probably stick another whey shake and some nuts and fish oils in and see how it goes


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## Miller

Im back on this, 5th week into it

hasnt been working as well as usual which is a worry, normally Im visibly different in under 3 weeks

gonna step cardio up to at least 5 hours a week now and taking lean xtreme


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## hackskii

I had a friend that is trying to go pro and did a big show.

He paid Dave alot of money for a contest prep, and came in flat.

He got 2nd last year and 7th this year.

Poor guy, placed less and paid more.


----------



## Lil D

Are all green veg okay on this diet? like asparagus ,peans , green peppers etc and if they are , do you have to be very precise with measurements or is it fairly safe to just eat greens til your full?

Also the actually diet says to have two protein + pb meals , but I presume you could introduce real foods instead with greens if worked out correctly?

Glucosamine will be safe to take while on a keto diet ?

And are psyllium husks a suitable fibre source?

Final question the cheat meal doesn't need to be monitored if its 500g of carbs max I presume?

Cheers in advance and sorry for all the questions but this diet is very thought provoking.


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## hackskii

Yes, green is good, but dont fill up on peas, the others are far more fiberous.

Real foods over the processed ones or shakes.

glucosamine is fine.

Psyllium husks are a fantastic fiber, they expand 50 to 60 times in the intestines, making elimination super easy, which happens to be a problem with keto type diets.

Drink lots of water too, if you dont, they can create a blockage and that is something which needs to be addressed.

500g would be in a week, day or what?

I doubt that would be a day as that is just 2000 cals of carbs alone.

Might spill over.


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## Lil D

I ment 500g for one day in the week either spread throughout the day or in one big cheat meal.

As im stuck between a full day on clean carbs or just a cheat meal on junk food.


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## hackskii

Not sure that the body can take in that much in one day.

I think the liver can store about 70 grams and the muscle about 400 to 500.

Excessive spikes might store some of that as fat.

I thought that it was the last two meals would be carbs with low protein and fats?

But then again I only know a little of the DP diet.


----------



## Lil D

Ahh fair enough Scott , Im just curious , I mean my own gut feeling on it would be too just get alot of carbs into me throughout the day on saturday but from clean sources so instead of pizza we're talking porridge , or steak and a baked potato , and to just taper down fats and protein accordingly.

But on the other hand I can see going all the way and just the last meal downing whatever you crave and just shocking you're system as much as possible. But im not sure.


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## hackskii

Well to me, you only can load so many carbs, after that, they will get stored as fat.

If the cheat meal was too cheat....lol, then there would be some spill over.

Look at it this way, protein and fats supply nutrition to muscle and energy, cheat meal would supply glycogen support to the muscle and liver.

If the fats and protein is too high it no doubt would interfere with glycogen loading, and if the calories were too high, then you are storing too much fat.

I may be wrong here but if we target glycogen loading then fats and protein in my opinion should be low.


----------



## Lil D

yeah I get you , was purely asking for your opinion , so you'd probably agree on the idea of just a full day carb up , with decent carbs and having moderate protein and low fats , to replenish from a week of keto?


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## hackskii

Well, depletion and replenish is a personal perspective.

More muscle, more carbs............well for the replinish game.


----------



## Miller

Next week Im thinking of ditching the cashews in meal 3 and replacing them with cheese to cut right down on the carbs because I think at the mo they're a little touch and go

sounds stupid but whats the best cheese to use?


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## Lil D

What kind of general health supplements would be nessecary with a keto diet?

Im thinking a general multi vitamin , calcium maybe at 1000-2000mg im not sure , Vit C at 2x500mg , fish oil 10 1g capsules , and 2-4 glucosamine chondroitin , reckon thats about covering everything?


----------



## hackskii

Almost.

A good multivitamin mineral supplement.

EFA's that consist of Omega 3, 6, 9

Fish oils, evening primrose oil and some olive oil.

Oh, a fiber supplement too as keto diets tend to constipate.


----------



## Lil D

Ahhh well my multi also has required minerals except calcium hence my including that.

I didn't add olive oil or evening primrose as olive oil is a staple in my diet and Idon't consider it a supplement.And I only worried about omega 3s as most diets are over laden with 6 and 9s already?

I did forget to mention taking physillium husk tablets 500mg , which im unsure as too how much I should take and when.

So that sounds sufficient now scott? considering im not exactly doing the DP version and adjusting to have more real food sources so I presume my diet will be more nutrient rich then.

ps. How much of the coral calcium would you recommend I take?


----------



## hackskii

Fish oils are high in Omega 3's (EPA/DHA), generally speaking our diets are too high in Omega 6's compared to Omega 3's.

Perfect ratio is 1/1 to 1/4, 3 to 6.

Typical American diet (no doubt similar to yours) is 1/10 to 1/25 ratio of 3 to 6.

So, supplementing fish oils is a very good idea as this brings the ballance of EPT to AA in better environment.

To much arachidonic acid is something that needs to be addressed as this causes a bunch of problems later on in life, most notibly inflammation.

Plus fish oils will help to make you more insulin sensitive, plus lower triglycerides too.

I would shoot for about 12 a day.


----------



## Lil D

Glad my thinking was fairly inline with yours , I was thinking to shoot probably 10 , since I'l be eating a fatty fish source each day for 1 out of 6 meals.

But what do you reckon for coral calcium 500mg tabs consumption and timing? Same question for 500mg physillium husk tablets? and finally 500mg Vitamin C?

I was thinking For vit C 500mg prework out then another at meal 5 or 6.

But im at a loss for when to get the other two in.


----------



## hackskii

I dose higher because I hate fish, and probably only eat it once a year.

So, I have to supplement it.

Nuts and seeds are another good idea too.

You can use almond butter (I dont think it tasts as good as regular peanut butter), and also other butters like cashew butter.

Macadamia nuts have the highest fat of any nut at 1 gram per nut....lol

Those are so tasty.


----------



## Lil D

Lil D said:


> Glad my thinking was fairly inline with yours , I was thinking to shoot probably 10 , since I'l be eating a fatty fish source each day for 1 out of 6 meals.
> 
> But what do you reckon for coral calcium 500mg tabs consumption and timing? Same question for 500mg physillium husk tablets? and finally 500mg Vitamin C?
> 
> I was thinking For vit C 500mg prework out then another at meal 5 or 6.
> 
> But im at a loss for when to get the other two in.


any ideas on this hacks?


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## hackskii

Take your calcium supplements alone, they will bind with the other minerals rendering them useless.

Another concept is simple, keto diets you can eat cheese, this is a very easily assimilable source of calcium.

If the coral calcium is more for alkaline then fine, but if you are eating cheese then this should not be a problem.

The other stuff is fine, you wont have to make any reason why as long as you get them down your neck.

But adding in some minerals offset others, so think ballance here.

Super greens food are great addition to a keto diet.


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## Lil D

Cheers Scott , always full of hugely beneficial nutritional info , I'l keep in mind just eating cheese , Im taking enough supplements as it is , never mind introducing calcium. Cheers again and reps on your way once I spread the love a little.


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## DRED

Ok i will be back on this diet as from monday,i have moved the meals around due to work...

Diet 2009<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o></o>

For a 250lb+ man:<o></o>

Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/TRIB/VIT C

Meal 2, 8oz STEAK with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL<o></o>

8OZ TURKEY<o></o>

8OZ PORK<o></o>

8OZ BEEF/PH

Meal 3, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO

Meal 4, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/PH

<o></o>Meal 5, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS

Meal 6, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O.3,6,9/VIT C

SUPPS;<o></o>

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO<o></o>

OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9<o></o>

MULTI VIT/MV<o></o>

TRIB/T<o></o>

ZINC/Z<o></o>

PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH

4/6 LITRES WATER

RED RICE YEAST CAPS FOR CHOLESTEROL

Starting weight this time 15.8 but i will use peds this time

50mg rohm anavar everyday

200mg rohm npp every 3rd day

250mg test enanthate every 3rd day

mon chest/biceps

tue cardio

wed back/traps

thur cardio

fri delts/triceps

sat cardio/legs

sun rest

<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>


----------



## Miller

useful variations of this diet for people...

200lb male

Meal #1: 5 whole eggs (Omega-3), 4 egg-whites (can be liquid

egg-whites).

Meal #2: Shake: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural

Peanut Butter (no sugar).

Meal #3: Lean protein meal: 8oz Chicken with ? cup cashew nuts (or

almonds, walnuts).

Meal #4: Shake: same as meal #2.

Meal #5: Fatty protein meal: 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or Red Meat with a

green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of

Olive Oil or Macadamia Nut Oil and Vinegar.

Meal #6: Same as meal #2 and #4, or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra

egg-whites.

250lb+ male

Meal #1: 6 whole (Omega-3) eggs.

Meal #2: 8oz chicken with ? cup raw almonds.

Meal #3: 50g whey protein with 2 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.

Meal #4: 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut

oil.

Meal #5: same as meal #3.

Meal #6: 6 whole (Omega-3) eggs.

120lb female

Meal #1: 2 whole (omega-3) eggs and 6 egg-whites.

Meal #2: 4oz chicken with 1/4 cup raw almonds.

Meal #3: 35g whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.

Meal #4: 4oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut

oil.

Meal #5: same as meal #1 or meal #3.

100lb (lean body mass) female figure competitor

Meal #1: 2 whole omega-3 eggs and 4 egg whites.

Meal #2: 30g whey protein and 1 tablespoon natural peanut butter.

Meal #3: 6oz chicken and 1oz (1/8 cup) raw almonds.

Meal #4: same as meal #2.

Meal #5: 4oz salmon, 2 cups of spinach leaves, 1 teaspoon virgin olive

oil and vinegar.

170lb male (153lbs LBM)

Meal #1: 3 whole omega-3 eggs, 3 egg-whites, 3 slices fat-free turkey.

Meal #2: 40g whey protein and 1 tablespoon olive oil.

Meal #3: 150g skinless chicken breast and 1 tablespoon soy and 1

tablespoon mustard and 30g almonds.

Meal #4: same as meal #2.

Meal #5: 200g top sirloin steak and 85g raw spinach and 1 tablespoon

olive oil.

Meal #6: 2 whole omega-3 eggs, 1 can tuna.

160 lb male

Meal #1: 4 whole eggs, ? cup egg-whites, fish oil, primrose oil.

Meal #2: 7oz chicken, ? cup almonds.

Meal #3: 7oz salmon, 1 cup spinach.

Meal #4: same as meal #2.

Meal #5: 7oz lean ground beef, 1 cup spinach, 1 tablespoon olive oil.

Meal #6: 3 whole eggs, 1 cup egg-whites, fish oil, primrose oil.

185lb natty bb at 12%bf

Meal #1: 5 whole omega-3 eggs.

Meal #2: 7oz chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds.

Meal #3: 40g whey protein with 1.5 tablespoons all natural peanut butter

(post-workout meal).

Meal #4: 6oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut

oil.

Meal #5: 40g whey protein with 2 tablespoons all natural peanut butter.

Meal #6: 4 whole omega-3 eggs with 4 extra egg-whites.

176lb natty bb at 11-12%bf

Meal #1: 4 whole omega-3 eggs with 4 extra egg-whites.

Meal #2: 200g chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds.

Meal #3: 40g whey protein with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.

Meal #4: 200g red meat or salmon with 1 cup asparagus.

Meal #5: 40g whey protein with 1.5 tablespoons all natural peanut

butter.

Meal #6: same as meal #1.

155lb male at 15%bf

Meal #1: 3 whole omega-3 eggs.

Meal #2: 5oz chicken with ? cup raw almonds.

Meal #3: 30g whey isolate with 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.

Meal #4: 7oz (93%) lean ground beef with 1 cup romaine lettuce

(dressing: 3 teaspoons ev olive oil and 3 teaspoons balsamic vinegar)

and 1 tablespoon flaxseed oil.

Meal #5: same as meal #3.

Meal #6: same as meal #1.

195lb male

Meal #1: 5 whole eggs.

Meal #2: 8oz chicken breast and 1/3 cup almonds.

Meal #3: 50g whey protein isolate with 1.5 tablespoon natural peanut

butter.

Meal #4: 8oz fish with 1/3 cup almonds.

Meal #5: 55g whey protein isolate with 1.5 tablespoon natural peanut

butter (post workout).

Meal #6: same as meal #1.

172lbs at 11%bf with protein and veggies days incorporated

3X P-F, 2X P-V

Pro-Fat

Meal #1: 4 whole eggs with 4 egg-whites.

Meal #2: 6oz chicken (cooked) and 1/3 cup raw almonds.

Meal #3: 40g whey protein and 1.5 tablespoon all natural peanut butter.

Meal Meal #6: same as meal #1.

Pro-veggie

Meal #1: 12 egg-whites.

Meal #2: 6oz chicken (cooked) and 1 cup asparagus.

Meal #3: 40g whey protein with water.

Meal #4: 6oz tuna and 1 cup asparagus.

Meal #5: same as meal #3.

Meal #6: same as meal #1.


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## Surferph34

Are there any sauces that can be used to flavour or marinade or cook only in and still keep in keto?

I knw herbs and spices are useable but I usually cook my chicken with drizzles of Reggae Reggae sauce to falvour the meat.

Also plenty of green vege, does that include Peas?

Sorry for any Hijack DP, keep on truckin big man!


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## LittleChris

I tried this way but have to say I prefer carb cycling.

Found Keto really didn't work with my head.


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## Miller

Surferph34 said:


> Are there any sauces that can be used to flavour or marinade or cook only in and still keep in keto?
> 
> I knw herbs and spices are useable but I usually cook my chicken with drizzles of Reggae Reggae sauce to falvour the meat.
> 
> Also plenty of green vege, does that include Peas?
> 
> Sorry for any Hijack DP, keep on truckin big man!


 mustard, soy sauce, vinegar and lea and perrins stick to mate

if Im doing a steak, I'll throw some lea and perrins in the pan right as Im pulling the steak out and then drizzle it over

vinegar with salmon and tuna tinned

soy with chicken breasts and salmon

apart from that, not really no

don't eat pea's no, brocolli, cauli, green beans, lettuce, cucumber, asparagus


----------



## Miller

LittleChris said:


> I tried this way but have to say I prefer carb cycling.
> 
> Found Keto really didn't work with my head.


 Id love to have the strictness with carb cycling but Im surrounded by nights out, lunches and treats from reps in my job so I know (from experience) that Id have a biscuit here or 3 pints there and justify it some way

on this, you know you've worked hard so dont spoil it


----------



## Surferph34

Miller said:


> mustard, soy sauce, vinegar and lea and perrins stick to mate
> 
> if Im doing a steak, I'll throw some lea and perrins in the pan right as Im pulling the steak out and then drizzle it over
> 
> vinegar with salmon and tuna tinned
> 
> soy with chicken breasts and salmon
> 
> apart from that, not really no
> 
> don't eat pea's no, brocolli, cauli, green beans, lettuce, cucumber, asparagus


Good man thanks for that Ill give them a whirl.

Reps.


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## Miller

****ting myself here now

doing some reading, some people are advising taking 6-8 weeks to come off this diet

Im going on holiday next friday! I was expecting to run it till this sat (my cheat meal) then have clean carbs that meal and add carbs about 10g a day sunday-friday which I would end up with 100g then

Iv been a bit naive here, what does everyone think I should do? come off Thursday?


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## DRED

one or two days wont hurt.....those 6-8 weeks aint set in stone,i lasted about 9 or 10 weeks on my keto


----------



## Miller

I was thinking that was a bit over-zealous, Im going to come off tomorow, giving me 8 days to come off before I go away, just going to have a bowl of bran flakes of a morning and then add pwo carbs as well for the week

Dred, did you take any stims when coming off? I was thinking of dropping a little touch of caffeine in the morning to keep me going as I wont be in ketosis and running on very few carbs

I was concerned over the insulin resistance, I know people who blitz stims would rebound badly from keto


----------



## DRED

i just went strait into carb cycling but never got on with that,i kept cheating...

i would stick with some morning cardio mate and see how it goes for you before addin anything extra


----------



## DRED

ok its only been a week and i am down from 15.8 to 15 3 i was ment to start the peds last week....so starting them today

working nights at the moment so just training one bodypart a day which gives me time to do my food for the day to


----------



## orange86

DRED, wheres the after pics from your keto cut?

i will be doing a diet like this soon


----------



## DRED

orange86 said:


> DRED, wheres the after pics from your keto cut?
> 
> i will be doing a diet like this soon


i never put end results up due to not using aas i got it in my head i was small.....

here is the only one i had when i finished....

i stayed pretty much the same all year but was lazy with training and diet...

i have been back to the gym on and of all year but i think its time to reopen the thread and start the keto again but this time with aas.


----------



## hackskii

I think you look good actually.


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## DRED

hackskii said:


> I think you look good actually.


cheers scott i just felt so small.....i am gonna do 8 weeks again with aas and see how it goes this time


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## CraftyClown

Hi guys, sorry to re-open this old thread, but I've been avidly reading and following it and plan to start DP's diet this weekend.

My question is should I adjust the diet to compensate for the fact I am only 76kgs (169lbs) 21% bf, or follow the 200lbs diet? I ask as everyone seems to use either the 200lbs or 250lbs version and I'm sure not everyone weighed exactly those amounts.


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## DRED

its time to get back on this diet....its been a funny year......work has been rubbish and i have seperated from my wife.....so training stopped and life came to a halt.....but you get to the point where life has to start goin forward again.....

i have joined a new gym which my good friend Paul has opened....so i will do this diet again but this time i will stay on peds as i never before....also going to be takin red rice yeast to combat the high cholesterol which i ended up with.

i have hardly trained this year so lets hope for muscle memory.....nice to be back here

www.crayfordweightsandfitness.co.uk


----------



## 1Tonne

Welcome back Dred :thumb:

Rochester lad


----------



## DRED

been out got supps and protien.......just got to get food in and happy days here we go again......also got supps to deal with any cholesterol problems


----------



## 1Tonne

Will follow with interest bud. Starting a keto style cut myself on 1st Jan. Your ALOT bigger than me tho lol. If thats an up to date pic then you defo got some mass to you.

You running the same diet as before or has it changed with time?


----------



## DRED

1Tonne said:


> Will follow with interest bud. Starting a keto style cut myself on 1st Jan. Your ALOT bigger than me tho lol. If thats an up to date pic then you defo got some mass to you.
> 
> You running the same diet as before or has it changed with time?


i am going to do the same diet as before it was so easy but this time adding some supps to counter cholesterol as it was high after the last one


----------



## chrisj22

Best of luck, Dred.

Very nice to see you back on here


----------



## DRED

Diet 2011

For a 250lb+ man:

Meal 1, 6 whole Omega-3 eggs/MV/O,3,6,9/EPO/T/L-C/G

Meal 2, 50g whey /39 PEANUTS/PH/AP

Meal 3, 8oz TURKEY/39 PEANUTS/O,3,6,9/EPO/G

Meal 4, 50 g whey/39 PEANUTS/PH/RRY

Meal 5, 8oz STEAK/TURKEY/PORK/CHICKEN with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon O/OIL WITH CHILLI FLAKES

AP/G

Meal 6, 6 whole eggs/Z/TRIB/MV/EPO/O,3,6,9/B-12/RRY

SUPPS;

EVENING PRIMROSE OIL/EPO

OMEGA 3,6,9/O.3.6.9

MULTI VIT/MV

TRIB/T

ZINC/Z

PSYLLIUM HUSK/PH

L-CARNITE/L-C

APPLE PECTIN/AP

GARLIC/G

VIT B-12/B-12

RED RICE YEAST/RRY

here is the revised diet with some extra supps to help with high cholesterol.....


----------



## littleninja

DRED said:


> i am going to do the same diet as before it was so easy but this time adding some supps to counter cholesterol as it was high after the last one


Hi,

I read everywhere that Keto diet should lower cholesterol ? I'm on keto right now, and i think about cholesterol too (didn't test it yet), but it's something that scares me...

JB


----------



## 1Tonne

Read "The Great Cholesteral Con" - by Malcom McKendrick....might make you think very differently.


----------



## hackskii

There are other books like Eat Your Cholesterol by William Cambell Douglas that is very impressive and gives insight to this myth.


----------



## littleninja

Yes i read some of articles i found on undergroundnutritionist, but Dred said that during his last keto diet, his cholesterol was high.

JB


----------



## DRED

hi guys i cant believe its been nearly a year since i posted last...............my plans never worked out as i wanted.

i got creamed in the divorce and lost everything,house,car and worst access to my daughter....

so i quit my job as i was not giving a 100% and just drifted about a bit......well now it looks like a job is on the table so once i get back to work things should start to change.

i can get myself a place and get back in the gym and start having my daughter more regually.

i have not trained in over a year but my stats are still comin up good....i am gonna get back on the keto as before except for one change,which is some form of carbs before training.

nice to be back


----------



## lxm

Im new here..... Sorry to read about your life issues! Good luck on working toward getting back on track!


----------

