# NAC show controversy at middleton.



## marticus (Mar 13, 2009)

Competed at eugenes laviscounts, Nac qualifier on sunday, excellent show great standard, especially when it clashed with the nabba uk. However i was witness to one of the worst decisions i have ever seen. In the over 50 masters, Bob dawson was robbed imo. The full details are on my journal, one of britains oldest and most prolific bodybuilders. Which is on members pictures. Will post photos shortly. If you were there, please voice your opinion, but please do not name anyone. myb:confused1: :confused1: :confused1:


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## andy spring (Nov 1, 2009)

hi marty this is andy spring buisnes partner and long time mate of bob dawson.can not believe the bad look bob has recently had.he just won the worlds a couple of weeks ago and they placed him second and now this crap what the hell is going on with these stupid juges? i for one can tell u first hand that no body has put in more effort and dedication than bob has for these shows and i take my hat off to him! how de morilising to be ripped off like he has been. you juges should be ashamed of yourselves!


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## Cam Coid (Oct 11, 2009)

i was at the show i had a friend doing the first timers, but for the over 50's i thought the winner peter kelly deserved to win as his shredded condition was clearly the best on the stage, fair enough he wasn't the biggest, john hodgson was in fact sitting in front of me and i overheard him saying 1st place's shredded condition was awesome and deserved to win.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

I wasnt there but the picture of Bob Dawson in the other thread shows his lower body as really smooth - need to see more pics tbh

If the guy that won it was shredded head to toe and balanced, even if not the biggest, then fair enough him winning IMO


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

andy spring said:


> hi marty this is andy spring buisnes partner and long time mate of bob dawson.can not believe the bad look bob has recently had.he just won the worlds a couple of weeks ago and they placed him second and now this crap what the hell is going on with these stupid juges?* i for one can tell u first hand that no body has put in more effort and dedication than bob has for these* shows and i take my hat off to him! how de morilising to be ripped off like he has been. you juges should be ashamed of yourselves!


Andy i am sure Bob was dedicated and worked hard but please don't presume others including the guy who won did not do the same....

as for the result from what i have heard it was close but a fair result, judges have a very difficult job if Bob would of won i am sure the guy he beat would of been just as p1ssed off....


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## chem1436114520 (Oct 10, 2006)

i was judging all day the paticular class i didnt has i had a guy in it and yes he won the classs ,i have never ever and never will judge a show unfairly has was put to me has i left the venue last night the guy who won i agree was not has big has bob but has we shredded to the bone and 5 lb yes 5lbs heavyer than he was att he british 2 wks before and was not has it was put to me a skinny **** , it seams the post has been edited by the starter of the thread , has it said that my gut was hanging over my pants lol i will post a pic of my gut hanging ove rmy pants later or tomoz when i get back tothe gym, i did throw a rtophy in 2005 at the nabba britian in disgust to the result has with a lot of poeple on here agreed was robbed i didng go on a internet board shouting about this and that i went o eugenes show the wk after and won the clas 4 and nearly won the overall even with 5 of my mates sitting on the judging panel . ive spoke to peter kelly this morn and is thining of packing bodybuildin gin for goodhe is a very emotional guy peter and says didnt now b/b was like this he has only been lifting wirghts for 3 years and has went from a average joe 59 year old blogs to a good 0ver 50s competitor , let hope he doesnt cause the way he has been gaining muscle the way he has he will be a nother smaller bernie cooper the worlds best over 50s bodybuilder who if any one nows is one of the many guys i heped make it for free yes free ,i wait the pics to come on the site tolet everyone judge for them self , because if it was just about how big you are marcus rhul would be mr olympia 10 times

age has no barrier has bernie and a lot of older and somtimes wisers bodybuilders in this game are prooving ,the name of the game is to improve on what you have and i witneeses the great walter omally at 71 years old at doncaster look the baest he has for a long time . i have and never will throw a show for anyone or any amount of money , and me being a over 40s bodybuilder myself after ripping both quads off the bone will be and yes will be back onstage next yeat to shut all the crititics up saying iam finished iam from the old schooll of b/building , that that doesnt killl us makes us stronger . and has far has eugene doesnt want me to judge again well he can phone me himself and tell me i gave up my 1st halloweeen from my 2 boys to judge that show for free organised the judges put it on all the internet sites so folk new about the show , thats his lost illgo and judge for the ukbff next year one mans loss is another gain

the thing is b/b is a oppionated sport 7 judges or in this cae there was 3 , 3 differnt oppinions , funny thin is each judge had the winner 1st on al counts , i just tooted the sheeets up and sighned it , i just hope peter will be back next year 8lbs heaver tha this to clinmb the ladder of b/b , dont let it nock you dowm pete you are a very good dedicated b/b who at 4am every morn for the last 12 months has been in my gym banging aawy on the treadmill for 1 hour in the morn and 45 at night and eating 500gms of carbs lol some dont eat it offseason , come back bigger i cant say in better nick cause it i simpossible and shut the mouths who play at the game cant do cardio cant handle diets up

ian chambers nac judge ( or former judgre lol htere loss ) owner of powerhouse gym

and yes i can say this with pride trainer of champions .


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## DnSVideo (Nov 30, 2008)

A selection of pics are up on www.michaelfawcettphotography.webs.com


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I would refer you to my comments on the UKBFF British score cards thread. It's VERY easy to sit there & say someone was 'robbed' but I say the judges have the best seat in the house & for good reason. They can see things that the crowd can't.

The judges give of thier time generously & without them, there is *no* sport so let's show a little respect & be more gracious in defeat, or in victory, be it for ourselves, or someone we are supporting. I realise Marticus may feel a little raw right now, but he might be a little more philosophical in a few weeks after the dust settles.

I agree with Paul wholeheartedly that it's disrespectful to say someone put more effort into thier prep than anyone else. Unless you spent 24 hours a day in the company of every single competitor how can you possibly say this with any conviction?

Chem, without guys like you, this sport would not exist, so I take my hat off to you & I'm proud to know you. You've been on the scene for years & are a stalwart of British Bodybuilding. When I began competing, you were there (kicking my ass I must point out :tongue: ) & I hope you are around for many more.


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## XL BODIES LTD (Nov 25, 2005)

Paul (nine pack) good post and very true!!!

Chem you are old school matey :whistling: but still a quality bodybuilder with the respect of old school and new all the same.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

chem said:


> i was judging all day the paticular class i didnt has i had a guy in it and yes he won the classs ,i have never ever and never will judge a show unfairly has was put to me has i left the venue last night the guy who won i agree was not has big has bob but has we shredded to the bone and 5 lb yes 5lbs heavyer than he was att he british 2 wks before and was not has it was put to me a skinny **** , it seams the post has been edited by the starter of the thread , has it said that my gut was hanging over my pants lol i will post a pic of my gut hanging ove rmy pants later or tomoz when i get back tothe gym, i did throw a rtophy in 2005 at the nabba britian in disgust to the result has with a lot of poeple on here agreed was robbed i didng go on a internet board shouting about this and that i went o eugenes show the wk after and won the clas 4 and nearly won the overall even with 5 of my mates sitting on the judging panel . ive spoke to peter kelly this morn and is thining of packing bodybuildin gin for goodhe is a very emotional guy peter and says didnt now b/b was like this he has only been lifting wirghts for 3 years and has went from a average joe 59 year old blogs to a good 0ver 50s competitor , let hope he doesnt cause the way he has been gaining muscle the way he has he will be a nother smaller bernie cooper the worlds best over 50s bodybuilder who if any one nows is one of the many guys i heped make it for free yes free ,i wait the pics to come on the site tolet everyone judge for them self , because if it was just about how big you are marcus rhul would be mr olympia 10 times
> 
> age has no barrier has bernie and a lot of older and somtimes wisers bodybuilders in this game are prooving ,the name of the game is to improve on what you have and i witneeses the great walter omally at 71 years old at doncaster look the baest he has for a long time . i have and never will throw a show for anyone or any amount of money , and me being a over 40s bodybuilder myself after ripping both quads off the bone will be and yes will be back onstage next yeat to shut all the crititics up saying iam finished iam from the old schooll of b/building , that that doesnt killl us makes us stronger . and has far has eugene doesnt want me to judge again well he can phone me himself and tell me i gave up my 1st halloweeen from my 2 boys to judge that show for free organised the judges put it on all the internet sites so folk new about the show , thats his lost illgo and judge for the ukbff next year one mans loss is another gain
> 
> ...


Great post,

I really dont think its on when people come on forums to put down and knock judges decision because it didnt swing their mates way.

This seems to happen an aweful lot and isnt on.


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

hilly said:


> Great post,
> 
> I really dont think its on when people come on forums to put down and knock judges decision because it didnt swing their mates way.
> 
> This seems to happen an aweful lot and isnt on.


agreed!! i dnt care how long they have been around...doesnt give anyone the right to be disrespectful....if anthing they should know better


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## BigBadButts (Nov 1, 2009)

Well guy's firstly i have to say i was at that show on Saturday with one of our juniors. Let me tell you Peter Kelly was in marvellous condition, it's not always how big someone is. It's easy to put size on but when it comes down to getting as ripped as Peter was then thats takes a lot of hard work and dedication and now to learn from Ian that this guy has only been training for 3 years it amazes me. senior shows are one of the hardest shows a newcomer can enter, most of these guys have been training all of their lives. So for a new comer to bodybuilding to compete against these big guys and win it gives us all inspiration and motivation to get off our lazy asses and get in the gym. Peter dont let anyone put you down, as Ian said use it and make you stronger and even better for next time. Congratulations. I also like to see other good bodybuilders coming on here and defending a new guy to the sport.


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## JAY-EL (Oct 20, 2008)

I feel like i`ve definately gotta comment on this one.

I competed yesterday at the NAC in middleton winning class 3 against a lad from bernie coopers gym(who if you didnt know is best mates with Ian Chambers) and he was in very good nick so you`d of thought , Chem would of influenced the decision if he was a cvnt!!

But you`ve gotta remember there`s 3, 4 sometimes 5 other judges not just 1 and just because you might know 1 of them it`d take some doing to influence everyone especially if has been said that he should of won easily !!

Anyway more about the Judge in question, for me this bloke is definately one of the best and most enthusiastic blokes in british bodybuilding he attends nearly every show whatever federation , he`s always got lads competing not just from his gym but helps lads all over country and is also very knoweldgeable and approachable.

Obviously Marty is upset about the decision but thats bodybuilding and at one time or another we`ll all have a sh1tty decision against us or someone we know , as far i`m concerned British Bodybuilding needs more bloke`s like Ian supporting little shows and just encouraging people to keep competing! :beer:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

I can and will speak up for Ian who in my opinion is one of the finest guys in the sport he supports all shows no matter the federation, he coaches loads of athletes to get them onstage.

As for someone saying he is out of condition......So what!!!! (although he is not) i am at the moment but then neither me or Ian have to step on a stage anytime soon but when he does then i suggest you watch out.......

Ian if Eugene does not want you to judge for the NAC then it is his loss......

as for the guys who are Bad loses i suggest you get a grip......then after you have done that put all your toys back in your pram....

Peter do not listen to internet badmouthing i have seen you onstage and you look good....



chem said:


> i was judging all day the paticular class i didnt has i had a guy in it and yes he won the classs ,i have never ever and never will judge a show unfairly has was put to me has i left the venue last night the guy who won i agree was not has big has bob but has we shredded to the bone and 5 lb yes 5lbs heavyer than he was att he british 2 wks before and was not has it was put to me a skinny **** , it seams the post has been edited by the starter of the thread , has it said that my gut was hanging over my pants lol i will post a pic of my gut hanging ove rmy pants later or tomoz when i get back tothe gym, i did throw a rtophy in 2005 at the nabba britian in disgust to the result has with a lot of poeple on here agreed was robbed i didng go on a internet board shouting about this and that i went o eugenes show the wk after and won the clas 4 and nearly won the overall even with 5 of my mates sitting on the judging panel . ive spoke to peter kelly this morn and is thining of packing bodybuildin gin for goodhe is a very emotional guy peter and says didnt now b/b was like this he has only been lifting wirghts for 3 years and has went from a average joe 59 year old blogs to a good 0ver 50s competitor , let hope he doesnt cause the way he has been gaining muscle the way he has he will be a nother smaller bernie cooper the worlds best over 50s bodybuilder who if any one nows is one of the many guys i heped make it for free yes free ,i wait the pics to come on the site tolet everyone judge for them self , because if it was just about how big you are marcus rhul would be mr olympia 10 times
> 
> age has no barrier has bernie and a lot of older and somtimes wisers bodybuilders in this game are prooving ,the name of the game is to improve on what you have and i witneeses the great walter omally at 71 years old at doncaster look the baest he has for a long time . i have and never will throw a show for anyone or any amount of money , and me being a over 40s bodybuilder myself after ripping both quads off the bone will be and yes will be back onstage next yeat to shut all the crititics up saying iam finished iam from the old schooll of b/building , that that doesnt killl us makes us stronger . and has far has eugene doesnt want me to judge again well he can phone me himself and tell me i gave up my 1st halloweeen from my 2 boys to judge that show for free organised the judges put it on all the internet sites so folk new about the show , thats his lost illgo and judge for the ukbff next year one mans loss is another gain
> 
> ...


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## BBgod (Nov 1, 2009)

i feel as thougfh i need to speak here, i was there i seen the show, bodbybuilding is always gonna be subjective, in my opinion u can never win if u have the biggest arms or the best symetery or the best condition, its about having the best overall package, in my opinion peter kelly had the best package without a doubt, i dont understand why people are disputing that, obviously u are friends with people who placed lower.!!!! peter desevered it stop trying to taint his victory!


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## dominator (Nov 1, 2009)

seriously!!!!cant believe that in this modern era of bodybuilding and awareness someone whom i reckon is a bodybuilding athlete is writing very naive remarks.Its an opinion sport to be honest but the decision of one judge cant alter the position for the first place.personally i know chem very well and he isnt biased at all,he helps me out a lot with my contest prep,etc and he has judged at a show in which i was an athlete and he didnt place me first because he prepped me,it was obvious the winners had better condition so he placed them higher.he is very honest,what u see is what u get and he wouldnt try to jeopardize his reputation by rigging a competion .


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## titan (Nov 9, 2006)

Hi all,

rarely these days do I post any messages these days on uk-m unfortunatly due to seeing previous threads go from good, to bad intent.

Looking like this may go same way. Hope not but seeing as I was competing at the nac thought it worth me adding my opinion and view as a Londoner I also share no biased favourtism to anyone as don't know the lads mentioned on a personal level 

as for the NAC comp, I would say firstly, what a great new venue and proffesional set up with far better parking and great lighting, well run back stage and lined Walls, good HOT shower facilities etc and so if the cost of an inflated £20 per ticket may have some merit it seems, altho a lot of families watching the contest cost £80 entry for family of 4 and heard many moans from the price. But if the cost pays for a greater facility and staffing for us competitors I believe it was a valid cost. The trophy's and overall trophy's being very special- thanks Eugene & NAC

the judging seemed overall fair thro the day with what seemed good descisions in all classes, altho the masters o/50 was awarded to What the audience and I must admit my amazement?! A very thin looking guy, seemingly thought by all in the crowd to be at best 3rd place due to his great conditioning, however held no mass and posed very awkward. I'm not belittling anyone and do not know the chap, infact I'm all for condition and symmetry over mass personally and as a competitor use that to my advantage as I'm not the biggest on the mass scene!- but the class was clearly between Bob & Marty... But neither won the class the slim/leaner athlete won??? And with the result, gasps went thro the crowd, this un'-nerved me , as I was due to be judged later at the comp. Still enough waffle, the sport is subjective and never clear cut, there is no start and finish line, no final score etc and controversy will always be debatable.

Finally in closing, it was also noticed amongst the audience was the 1st timers class - large class no clear cut winner and a hard line up to judge. But to have a audience member called upon to sit on the judges table to 'help' with the result was very unproffesional & caused much debate amongst the crowd & backstage! Not good really!

However in saying that, the judging did run smoothly with vince on the judging table, but not the best example of fair or proffesionalism in this sport.


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## stevie flynn (Sep 5, 2006)

ive just seen the photos of the show. although i wasnt at the show, looking at the pics, the placings looked correct to me... im a qualified nabba judge, have judged many shows including the brit finals, and have plenty of unbiased experience...cant see what all the bitching is about. im actualy surprised mart has created a thread like this..this is not the marty ive always known.

chem, as for you, i echo pauls words. you do, and have done, so much for this sport..you dont have to defend yourself against half-wits pal and for anyone to mention your 'gut', just shows how sad some folk are...

steve


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## MuscleButt (Feb 4, 2009)

I was at the show, chem you did a great job you always gonna get guys saying the judging is pants!!! look at the olympia. I think it was failry judged and everyone should just stop stating judges it is a hard job and if you can do better next year but your anme up for a judge and do a course, and make a difference.


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## MuscleButt (Feb 4, 2009)

MuscleButt said:


> I was at the show, chem you did a great job you always gonna get guys saying the judging is pants!!! look at the olympia. I think it was failry judged and everyone should just stop slating the judges it is a hard job and if you can do better next year put your name up for a judge and do a course, and make a difference.


 :beer:


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## marticus (Mar 13, 2009)

Time for me to put this one to bed, first of all my apologies to peter kelly a lovely guy, who was in great condition. I never complained about my placing, just expressed my opinion and the show organisor, and most of the audience. My comments about chem were given to him after he had got personal with me, and were in the heat of the moment. Been a bit of history between us over a similar incidents and i spilt onto my thread. In hindsite i should have let it go. Since then chem and i have had a somewhat lively debate, and sorted things out. We both apologised to each other, and can move on. My original comments were that bob dawson out muscled peter quite clearly, and if as i thought bodybuilding was about being exaggerated muscle on an anatomy chart, which is size, shape symetry and condition. Maybe im old school and out of touch, and whats the point in striving to attain all i thought was the criteria, when clearly its simply down to extreme condition regardless of your shape and size. Seems more the criteria for bodypump and aerobic type physiques. Just my opinion, Ive had a good kicking on here but apart from a few derogatory private messages, it wont phase me from speaking my mind, but probably in a more measured way. Oh i forgot must have been time of the month!


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## flex1997 (Feb 20, 2009)

i also attended this show and to me peter, the winner was the only one in shredid condition. its very easy to get big, but to get in the condition peter was in is a totaly diffrent game as i compete mysel and i no its no walk in the park, i cnt understand wot its all about think people need to get over it and move on. :confused1:


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

marticus said:


> Time for me to put this one to bed, first of all my apologies to peter kelly a lovely guy, who was in great condition. I never complained about my placing, just expressed my opinion and the show organisor, and most of the audience. My comments about chem were given to him after he had got personal with me, and were in the heat of the moment. Been a bit of history between us over a similar incidents and i spilt onto my thread. In hindsite i should have let it go. Since then chem and i have had a somewhat lively debate, and sorted things out. We both apologised to each other, and can move on. My original comments were that bob dawson out muscled peter quite clearly, and if as i thought bodybuilding was about being exaggerated muscle on an anatomy chart, which is size, shape symetry and condition. Maybe im old school and out of touch, and whats the point in striving to attain all i thought was the criteria, when clearly its simply down to extreme condition regardless of your shape and size. Seems more the criteria for bodypump and aerobic type physiques. Just my opinion, Ive had a good kicking on here but apart from a few derogatory private messages, it wont phase me from speaking my mind, but probably in a more measured way. Oh i forgot must have been time of the month!


I wouldnt call any1 in the pics i have seen of any recent shows anywere near bodypump or aerobic physiques. Condition is just as important as size and symetry. Having te complete package is were it is at. However depending on what the judges opinions are and what they are looking for swings it as we all know.


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## marticus (Mar 13, 2009)

Whilst im not wanting to bring on more criticism, thought i would put photo on kindly sent by michael fawcett dns video, many thanks. This is my final post on this site, lets all value our own opinions, and for those who are offended i apologise, for my strong feelings that spilt onto the thread. myb :thumbup1:

Picture.zip


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

marticus said:


> Whilst im not wanting to bring on more criticism, thought i would put photo on kindly sent by michael fawcett dns video, many thanks. This is my final post on this site, lets all value our own opinions, and for those who are offended i apologise, for my strong feelings that spilt onto the thread. myb :thumbup1:


Hope you got my reply to your pm about this.

regarding the pic i would have actually had you second but think the guy that won was deserving first place but what do i know


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be fair Marty i have you 2nd in that pic i still think pete did nick it due to his conditioning, you are correct that it is not all about condition but then it is not all about mass Peter had muscle not as much as the other 3 i grant you but his condition was far in front the rest of you onstage.....


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## tommy y (Apr 7, 2008)

wasnt there but judging on that pic id have u first marty, only one pose i no, but you look streets ahead there pal in terms of size an proportion an presentation, but i wasnt there and am only goin off that pic, sounds like a tough topic this one, all down to peoples opinions so who is to say who is right or wrong???????? condition is important but size an shape are the key elements in my opinion coupled with nice condition, which judgin by the pic you should of won in my opinion!! all depends on the individuals opinion on how a physique should look. there will always be arguments about decisions, so next time marty use this as inspiration to put the decision beyond doubt and smoke em!!!! ha


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## marticus (Mar 13, 2009)

tommy y said:


> wasnt there but judging on that pic id have u first marty, only one pose i no, but you look streets ahead there pal in terms of size an proportion an presentation, but i wasnt there and am only goin off that pic, sounds like a tough topic this one, all down to peoples opinions so who is to say who is right or wrong???????? condition is important but size an shape are the key elements in my opinion coupled with nice condition, which judgin by the pic you should of won in my opinion!! all depends on the individuals opinion on how a physique should look. there will always be arguments about decisions, so next time marty use this as inspiration to put the decision beyond doubt and smoke em!!!! ha


 Thanks, tom i very much appreciate your comments as there is no doubt where your destiny lies. I also value most of the opinions of the seasoned bodybuilders on here. Problem with the site are the guys who have just joined and are experts but no photos. Youre right going to wpf universe in 2 weeks, and will work my butt off. myb:thumbup1:


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2009)

no bitching or moaning about a result will ever change the result



> However i was witness to one of the worst decisions i have ever seen. In the over 50 masters, Bob dawson was robbed imo


That is you opinion


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

If I were to critisise bodybuilding judging, I would compare it to `The X Factor` judging. If your face don`t fit, you`re out. If you perform over the years the same as you have done in the past years, you`re out. I remember one competitor being stuck in the same class for years, winning. Well, he didn`t get away with it this time (won`t name him).

Bodybuilding is about self improvement,overall package and being able to sell yourself to both audience and judges. I have seen few unfair placings, however when I looked back and assessed the line up, I realized the reasons behind the results.

You can never be certain with bodybuilding. It`s like life. Everything runs nice and smooth. BUT, you never know what`s behind the corner.


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