# Carb Cycling Diet - Critique Please



## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi all,

After some time researching/asking questions/planning i have come up with my carb cycling diet for he next 8 weeks, commencing 24th May.

I have never done a diet based around carb cycling, so im looking forward to the results!

Current Stats: 24/185cm/210lb's - Natural

Im looking to shred some bf over the 8 week period, maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. After this period i will review my results and likely start a new 'bulk' diet.

I have read up a fair amount on carb cycling, and after my research, used the basics in this link (http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_carb_cycling_codex)

My starting weight for the diet will be 210lbs. I calculated my BMR, taking into account the activity factor of 1.6 (from the link).

I have chosen to reduce my calories from this BMR figure by 10%.

Hopefully the images below have worked! It gives a basic breakdown of the diet on a weekly basis, then there are images of my high (mon/wed/fri) med (Sun) & low (tue/thur).

I have managed to get my daily macro intakes as close as possible. My calorie intake is also as close as possible.

The red foods are supplements. I have tried to limit these as much as possible but on high carb days, i couldnt find any whole foods that would give me the carb values i needed, so used WMS as a last resort. I havent included other supplements in the screen shot.

If you could take the time to review it and critique/make suggestions then it would be much appreciated. I understand its long, and most wont be bothered to comment, but those that do, i thank you in advance!


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Seems the screenshots of daily diet are quite small. Had to reduce the size in excel so it would fit on the laptop screen!


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## Dean00 (Jan 25, 2009)

U not train shoulders?


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Oopps, after all the typing i forgot to explain my training schedule.

Im doing a 9 day split, so train mon/wed/fri, starting with legs, chest/triceps, back/biceps then shoulders. Then repeat.

I also forgot to mention the fact i have chosen only 1 low carb day. There are a number of different theories regarding the carb cycling that i have read. The link above suggest choosing 2 high days (for the bodyparts which need the most work), 1 medium day on remaining training day. Then the remainder choose 1 med, and 3 low.

However, as im doing a 9day split it would be all over the place, so i decided to try 3 high, 3 med and 1 low.

This is an area i hoped people would be able to critique.


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## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

the point of the carb cycle is to have most days low so then when you have a high/refeed day it boost your metabolism... never herd of a carb cycle diet with more high than low days


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Shorty, never have i read that is the reason for the carb day. But i appreciate what you are saying.

It will obviously be easy for my to switch a med for a low day.

What are people thoughts on the choice of foods etc?


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

i would have a medium or a low day after a low day

i would not got high/low/high as you are not using your bodyfat for energy as your glycogen levels are still high from the high day prior


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Micky, you either need a high day before or after your low day? Other wise you would not be getting enough high days?

If i was to drop to 2 high days, on Mon and Fri, then a medium day Wed. That would leave Tue/Thurs/Sat/Sun to split the remaining 1 med and 3 low days.

But still then would need to either have a high day before or after a low day.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

you only need 2 high days per week

2 medium days

3 low days

thats my opinion

more high carb days than this and its almost a bulking diet


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

and the high day after a low day is fine

its the time in a carb deficit you are trying to lengthen to burn the bf


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Cheers Micky. What would you say to switching wednesdays from a hi to a medium?

So a revised version would be:


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Cant see any other way of doing it without having the 2 high days on workout days and without having 2 consecutive low days,


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

you will only know if its working when you start to shed weight, if its too slow lose some carbs

i personally only have 1 high day per week but i am finding that very hard atm


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, i agree. I will make changes if necessary as and when progress stops. But before i started i wanted some advice, as never followed the carb cycling approach.

I can imagine having only 1 high carb day would be hell, but if its needed to schieve the results then it has to be!

What are peoples thoughts on the food choices?

Was hard to find high protein/low cab/low fat sources, hence the relatively high volumes off egg whites. I dont mind them, and they are cheap, but i know some people prefer other sources.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

i dont think your food choices are too bad

i wouldnt use olive oil as your only source of efa though

fish oil tabs can be had for around 8 quid for 500 so its all good


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

trickymicky69 said:


> i wouldnt use olive oil as your only source of efa though


I have to agree on this one. I really don't understand why people quote olive oil as being rich in essential EFA's. In my opinion there is only 1 EFA and that is the Omega 3's Alpha Linolenic, eph, dha. Omega 9's found in monunsaturated olive oils are pretty much neutral. I also believe that Omega 6's should never be considered an EFA, I'd rather eat saturated fats, which incidentally are essential.

I read in a book 'Trick and Treat' by Barry Groves that Omega 6 polyunsaturated fats lower the immune system. Apparently, I don't know how true it is, but during early development of organ transplantation, they used high dose Polyunsaturated fats to reduce the patients immune system so low as to not reject the organ.

Another logic I find interesting, but again, not studied it extensively is looking at the source of fats. Saturated fats are found in animal sources and coconut oils. Both of which are found in either hot climates or hot blooded animals. Monounsaturated found in the olive oil are found in more tepid climates, and Polyunsaturated found in seeds from cold climates that are in the ground during cold winters, and fish that live in cold water. The logic is that for a fat to be of value to the organism it must be liquid. Now you may then summise, why are all fats not polyunsaturated as these are liquid at both low and high temperture. The issue is that fats designed to be liquid at cold temperatures (polyunsaturated) are unstable at higher temperatures. They start to auto oxidate, causing free radicals, and nasty chemicals. So if you think about it, our body is 37°C, which is not ideal for the stability of a polyunsaturated fat. However, saturated fats are very stable at our body temperature. This is another reason why you should never cook with polyunsaturates, or monounsaturates, you will just be making them into poison for the body. Also that crappy sunflower oil you buy in the supermarket is real bad news, it is hot pressed, and is actually clinically rancid before you buy it, and then you stick it in your chip pan and frying pan. Bad bad bad news for your health.

I think we should look at our human nature for the ideal mix. Mother Milk! around 60% saturated, 30% monounsaturated, and 10% polyunsaturated, or something like that. If that isn't the ideal mix, then why the hell would nature give it to the growing human???


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## Mickey Monk (Feb 19, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> I think we should look at our human nature for the ideal mix. Mother Milk! around 60% saturated, 30% monounsaturated, and 10% polyunsaturated, or something like that. If that isn't the ideal mix, then why the hell would nature give it to the growing human???


Yesss.... I'll go get me a wet nurse with big fat titties to suck on.... :tongue:


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Mickey Monk said:


> Yesss.... I'll go get me a wet nurse with big fat titties to suck on.... :tongue:


Good idea, lets all go out and suck some titties. LOL


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## Scrappy (May 5, 2008)

trickymicky69 said:


> you only need 2 high days per week
> 
> 2 medium days
> 
> ...


sorry to hijack just a quick quest? how would you arrange your carb cycle if you train mon wed fri then?


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Micky, Joe, i understand what you are saying.

The only problem is to get the amount of fats needed i would be consuming a hell of a lot of fish oil tablets.

1000mg tabs are obviously 1g. Correct?!

Therefore thats alot of fish oil tabs to be consuming to reach the required daily amount.

It would be easy to add in some fish oil tab, but to replace the olive oil completely?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

You're not hijacking, it should be me who is sorry for sending the thread off on a tangent. Back on topic now. But sorry I can't answer you question, I tried carb cycling last year and lost more muscle compared with CKD I am on now. Good luck with your diet


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Scrappy, thats where the problem arises. You want the 2 high carb days on the workouts that require the most growth (as i understand). Then you need to add in 1 medium day to your other training day, then split the remaining medium and 3 low days over the remaining days.

Im proposing, after the suggestion from micky, to change to (mon) high, (tue) low, (wed) medium, (thur) low, (fri) high , (sat) low , (sun) medium.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Micky, Joe, i understand what you are saying.
> 
> The only problem is to get the amount of fats needed i would be consuming a hell of a lot of fish oil tablets.
> 
> ...


The point i was trying to make earlier, is don't be affraid of saturated fats. It has been an epedemic in the last 25 years, and we have been brainwashed. It all started with a guy called Ancel Keys in the 50's who made an incorrect connection between cholesterol, saturated fats, and heart disease. Since he made this connection, there hasn't been any studies to prove his theory correct. There are far too many paradoxes to the whole theory. However, modern governments have backed this theory, and now we are too far down the line to make a U turn, there is too much at stake, like billions in pharmeceuticals selling statin drugs etc etc. So in a nut shell, what I am saying is don't be too affraid to add some saturateds to your diet, maybe some nuts, or coconut is a good fat with many many benefits including increasing thyroid function, antimicrobial, antiviral.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Coconut fat? Or coconuts?

The problem ive found planning the diet is finding sources high in fat, while being low in carbs, and vice versa.

Is coconut oil available in the shops like olive oil etc?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Coconut fat? Or coconuts?
> 
> The problem ive found planning the diet is finding sources high in fat, while being low in carbs, and vice versa.
> 
> Is coconut oil available in the shops like olive oil etc?


Coconut oil is available in some of the larger supermarkets but pricey. You can get it from holland & barrett. But I get mine from ebay, there is a guy on there who sells 3 tubs of coconoil for a little over £20. It is 100% fat, so easy to bump up the calories with it. About 60% of the fats are Medium Chain Triglycerides, which are metabolised differently to Long Chain, basically the MCT's go directly to the liver and processed as energy pretty much like a carb, but without all enzyme activity associated with carbs. There is some interesting clips on youtube about coconut oil too, just put coconut oil in the search. Some pretty wild claims about it's properties, but it is a source of Lauric and Caprylic acid also. One of the only other places you find Lauric acid is in Human Milk.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks joe. Ill go searching next time in in the supermarket.

With respect to olive oil, would you suggest reducing the amount and adding in some coconut oil? Or just straight up replacing it?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Thanks joe. Ill go searching next time in in the supermarket.
> 
> With respect to olive oil, would you suggest reducing the amount and adding in some coconut oil? Or just straight up replacing it?


Mix it up a bit, but ensure you are getting in some flax and/or fish oils daily. Olive oil is easier to get into diet because it goes well on salads, whereas coconut oil is actually solid, so you need to bang it in the microwave to make it liquid. I then bung it in a protein shake. And you just simply cant beat the whole egg, natures most perfect food.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Coconut oil is solid?

I did a search on sainsburys, couldn't find it? Ill see what i can find in the holland and barrett.

I am right in thinking 1000mg Fish Oil tab is 1g of fat. Correct? So say for example i needed to make up 10 grams of fat in a meal, it would take 10 1000mg fish oil capsules?

This is obviously theory, and i would never do this, but just making sure my theory is correct!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

1000mg is 1g. Why would you not take 10 in a meal, I drink the stuff 5-10ml at a time.

I've only ever seen coconut oil in morrisons, and a large tesco. Never looked at ASDA, and never seen it in Sainsburys. You usually find it on health food, or free from shelves. If you get on well with it I suggest getting it off ebay. Put coconoil in the search, this is a brand name, and probably the cheapest.


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## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

myprotein have coconut oil and is a bit cheaper than H&B and you get a little more too


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## Scrappy (May 5, 2008)

Adam_W said:


> Scrappy, thats where the problem arises. You want the 2 high carb days on the workouts that require the most growth (as i understand). Then you need to add in 1 medium day to your other training day, then split the remaining medium and 3 low days over the remaining days.
> 
> Im proposing, after the suggestion from micky, to change to (mon) high, (tue) low, (wed) medium, (thur) low, (fri) high , (sat) low , (sun) medium.


Yeah that sounds quite reasonable, i think that would work quite well, im struggling to stick to a carb cycle as ive herd many people say you cant

Loose bf and stil gain size. Its simple maths that u dont need as many carbs when you dont train, although tiny tom told me the opposite, eat less carbs on training days, eat mre rest days to grow, lol so im confused!


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, we'll see how i get on with it over the next few weeks. If after the 8 weeks im not progressing, then ill revise the strategy.

What are peoples thoughts on the intensity factor? Im chosen 1.6. Is it neccesary to factor in the intensity of your daily lifestyle?

Or just take the basic BMR?


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Anybody with opinions on the intensity fator?


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

No one with any thoughts on the intensity factor?

Not seen people mentioning it on here, so not sure whether to go with BMR?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

your bmr is the amount of calories you would burn if you stayed in bed all day. Personally for weight loss I go with your weight in lbs multiplied 12, then reduce to 10 after a few weeks at 12


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, i understand that joe, but i've yet to read anybody on here factoring in an intensity factor when calculating the amount of calories they are going to consume.

Or are most people just guessing?

Where do you get this figure of 10/12 from?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Maintenance for someone who is doing plenty of exercise would be BMR x 16 as you said. So 10-12 gives a decent enough defecit to reduce weight. I read it in some book, but I read so much I can't quote where it all comes from.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Joe that cannot be right. BMR x 16 would be massively high, for me 34,064!

From what your saying tho i will factor in an intensity value. Then evaluate how fat loss is going week on week.

Found the coconoil you were suggesting on ebay. Does heating it in the microwave to turn it to liquid not denature it at all?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Adam as requested i have looked over your plan this my take....

you are having to many high day a better rotation in my opinion would be

Sun - Low

Mon - Low

Tues - Med

Wed - Low

Thur - Med

Fri - Low

Sat - High

now i also feel that your amounts are to conservative....this is my take

Low - 150g carbs

Med - 300g carbs

High - 600g carbs

the whole point to carb cycling is to keep your body guessing and to shock it into losing fat, by only raising your carbs by 70-80g on med and high days you will not shock it enough...

keep your protein constant and the levels for fats is ok to begin with but this might need adjusting...

another thing i see often on these plans is that people try to place high days around big bodyparts....why?? the whole point to this plan is to lose fat why are so many trying to increase poundage's and size?? if you train legs on a low day then you will dip into your reserves more(fat) as you will not have enough energy to train legs.....

are you doing cardio??

not saying your original plan will not work just giving my opinion on the whole thing....good luck


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Joe that cannot be right. BMR x 16 would be massively high, for me 34,064!
> 
> From what your saying tho i will factor in an intensity value. Then evaluate how fat loss is going week on week.
> 
> Found the coconoil you were suggesting on ebay. Does heating it in the microwave to turn it to liquid not denature it at all?


OOPS!! DOH! I meant 1.6.


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

From reading your other thread i dont think your going to achieve much in just 8 weeks choosing to carb cycle,maybe a keto diet would suit you better if your only dieting for 8 weeks?


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks Paul. Appreciate the comments. I only chose to have my 2 high days on workout days after reading a few articles which suggested this.

If you recommend it different, then i will try that. AS i have never tried a carb-cycling diet, i am open to all advice!

Ill re-jug the diet with the carb amounts you have suggested, then post it back up. Will be easy for me to adjust the fats as its all in excel.

I will be doing cardio first thing pre meal 1 and immediately post workout mon/wed/fri for 20 mins each session.

Bbeweel, im not looking to drop a huge amount on bf, just get to around 10%. Obviously less would be fantastic, but my aim is for around 10%. After this short fat loss diet, ill return to a more structured 'bulk' diet.


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

What do you estimate yourself to be at present BF% ??


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

As an estimate, id say about 15%. I will be able to get a better idea when i return home this weekend, where i have some body-fat scales, although i know these are not truly accurate either.


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

ok cool,i think it may take a little longer than 8 weeks cycling your carbs to get to 10% from 15% ,thats why i suggested a keto if your diet is going to be a short one.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

well i have carb cycled for 3 weeks before and lost about 7lbs, admittedly we are all different

and the question on how to get enough fish oils in?

i have three with every meal


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Paul,

With the suggestions youve made ive amended the overall plan, but on high carb days the daily calorie intake will be higher than i need.

This means i am needing a negative amounts of fats to make my calorie intake. Something needs to change :lol:

Would you recommend dropping the protein ratio? I kept it high at 1.8 to try and maintain as much muscle mass as possible.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Pscarb/Joe...thoughts?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

carb cycling is about shocking the body.....if you based it on your calorie needs you would not have a big window to raise and drop the carbs to shock the body.....

when you diet your body after a while realises this and slows the metabolism you need to fool the body into thinking you are not dieting this is where the medium and high days come into play......your food is all clean and because you follow up both the high and med days with at least one low day you do not need to work out the calorie needs as a science......keep your protein at 1.5g per lb you will not need any more than this and then use the numbers i gave in my last post and see where you go from there......all this messing around to get figures correct is wasting time you need to shock the body and raising the carb amounts by 60-70g is not going to do this...


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Pscarb, you saying i do not need to be in a calorie deficit then?

Also, i remember reading in a diet thread (Keto off the top of my head) that they do not bother to weigh foods in the US, and you were saying quite the opposite? In fact i remember you saying something along the lines of 'if your going to do something, do it properly'?

Im a little confused now


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