# 40 year old newbie looking for advice



## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

Hi Everyone

Ive been on and off the training circuit since a teenager, doing a bit here and a bit there with friends and never seem to really get anywhere or achieved the shape and look ive always wanted, I then got married at 18, had kids and move home a dozen times which all seemed to take priority (or a lack of dedication on my part)... before I knew it I hit 40 on the Jan 6th 2017 and still looking the same shape as I did in my twenties but with a few extra pounds. After getting a shock at xmas by looking in the mirror ive decided to actually do something about it and achieve what I didn't before.

*Any Advice would be really welcome.*

*My Aim:-*

My aim is to slightly bulk but get lean. something like the image below...










I'm under no illusion how long this will take as it a lifestyle change but im going away in July and hoping I can make a good start in time for my holiday (July 2017).

*My Particulars:-*

Male

5"11"

180lbs (avg 12.7 to 13.2 stone)

34" waist

fairly fit (can run 10k okay)

no injuries

*My Starting point:- *

I started this lifetime journey in Jan 2017... this time I'm looking to understand the process rather than just going through the motions and make it a lifestyle change.

Ive paid to have a beginners training plan done but (open to suggestions for improvements on this) as regular PT sessions are not an option.

Ive paid to have a nutritionist do me a beginners diet plan (again open to suggestions for improvements).

Ive watched a number of videos by Mario Tomic and Eric Helms (I found Eric's pyramid quite interesting as a starting point on YTube)

I'm in the process of trying to lean what my Calories and Macro's should be but struggling. I think my maintenance cal's should be 2000 base on 180lbs?

I weigh myself every day and average it out on a Saturday (missing Sunday) to keep track.

*My Diet and Training Plan:-*




*Monday*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*Shoulders *

Physio Excesses 6am

Breakfast

Run 12am

Lunch

Insanity 6pm

Protein Shake

Incline Shoulder Press.

Vertical Shoulder Press.

Dumbbell Front raises.

Dumbbell - Side raises.

Cables - Side raises individual arms.

Rear Delt - Dumbbell Lifts.

Shrugs - Dumbbell or Machine.

Evening Meal



Porridge Oats- 50g

Blueberries - 50g

Unsweetened alpro almond milk - 300ml

Flaxseed-10g

Egg whites and whole

make into scrabbled/ omelette - 6 whites 2 whole egg.



Total Greek yoghurt half pot- 85g

Mackerel in olive oil- drained whole tin



Chicken - 150g

Babyleaf - handful

Cherry tomatos - handful

cumber - handful

Porridge Oats- 50g



Total Greek yoghurt half pot- 85g

Kalo dark chocolate rice cakes - 2



Burger:-

Lean mice beef - 200g

half whole onion

egg white - 1

Wooster Sauce - 2 table spoons

Sweet potato - 200g

Mushrooms - handful

Butter beans - half a tin

Green beans - 100g

Desert:-

85% Dark chocolate - 2 squares



*Tuesday*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*Legs*

Front Leg Extensions (Quads)

Weighted Squats

Hack Squats Machine

Hamstring Curls

Single Leg Squats

Protein Shake

Evening Meal



Porridge Oats- 50g

Blueberries - 50g

Unsweetened alpro almond milk - 300ml

Egg whites and whole

make into scrabbled/ omelette - 6 whites 2 whole egg.



kalo dark chocolate rice cakes - 2

Banana - 1 whole

Honey - 1 tbl spoon



Salmon - 150g

Basmati rice - 60g

Babyleaf- handful

Cherry tomatoes - handful

Cumber - handful

Total Greek yoghurt - whole pot 85g

Pineapple - ½ small tin



Chicken -150g

Babyleaf - handful

Walnuts - 30g



Main:

Chicken breast - 150g

Babycorn - handful

Mange tout - handful

Basmati Rice - 60g

Desert:-

85% Dark chocolate - 2 squares





*Wednesday*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*Back & Biceps *

Physio Excesses 6am

Breakfast

Push-ups/Abs 12am

Lunch

Insanity 6pm

Protein Shake

Standard Bar Lat Pull Down.

Parallel Bar Lat Pull Down.

Double Arm Front Rows.

Leverage iso Rows.

Seated rows.

Close Grip Lat Pull Down.

Double & Single Arm Bicep Curls (M/C)

Single Arm Curls (Dumbbell)

EZ Bar Curls

Evening Meal



Porridge Oats- 50g

Unsweetened almond milk - 300ml

Raspberries - 50g

Egg whites and whole

make into scrabbled/ omelette - 6 whites 2 whole egg.



Tin Mackerel in olive oil- drained whole tin

Babyleaf Salad -handful

Almonds - 40g



Chicken- 150g

Babyleaf- handful

Cherry tomatoes - handful

cumber - handful

Boiled egg - 2



Banana - 1 whole

Honey - 1 tbl spoon



Main:

Salmon - 150g

Basmati rice - 60g

Asparagus- 100g

Broccoli - 50g



*Thursday*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*Chest & Triceps *

Physio Excesses 6am

Breakfast

Push-ups/Abs 12am

Lunch

Flat Bench Chest.

Incline Bench Chest.

Decline Bench Chest.

Dumbbell Incline Flys.

Cable Flys (pulling to waist - B Pec).

Cable Flys (pulling to chin - T Pec)

Skull Crushers.

Cable Down Bar.

Cable Pull Down Rope.

Overhead Rope Triceps Extension.

BodyAttack 19:20

Evening Meal



Porridge Oats- 50g

Blueberries - 50g

Unsweetened alpro almond milk - 300ml

Egg whites and whole

make into scrabbled/ omelette - 6 whites 2 whole egg.



Tin Mackerel in olive oil- drained whole tin

Babyleaf Salad -handful

Banana 1 whole



Salmon - 150g

Basmati rice - 60g

Babyleaf- handful

Cherry tomatoes - handful

Cumber - handful



Kalo dark chocolate rice cakes - 2

Protein Shake



Main:

White Fish - 150g

Basmati rice - 80g

Asparagus- 100g

Desert:-

85% Dark chocolate - 1 square.





*Friday (Only if Possible)*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*HITT*

Physio Excesses 6am

Breakfast

Core 12am

Leg raises

Half sits

Knee tucks

Knee thrusts

Straight leg raises

Side bends

Lunch

HITT:-

Protein Shake

Double & Single Arm Bicep Curls (M/C)

Single Arm Curls (Dumbbell)

EZ Bar Curls



Porridge Oats- 60g

Whole tin pineapple chunks - small tin

Honey or cinnamon - tea spoon

Unsweetened alpro almond milk - 300ml



Mackerel in olive oil- drained whole tin

Almonds- 30g

Mixed baby leaf salad and cucumber- handful



Salmon - 150g

Basmati rice - 60g

Babyleaf- handful

Cherry tomatoes - handful

Cumber - handful



Myprotein-diet whey 1 scoop



Main:

Steak sirloin/fillet - 150g

Brocolli- 100g

Peas - 50g

Sweet potato - 200g make into chips

Desert:-

85% Dark chocolate - 1 square.



*Saturday*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*Cardio *

5k run or 10k bike

or jobs round the house



Porridge Oats - 80g

Ground Flaxseed milled organic - 10g

Egg Whites - x4

honey- tea spoon



Tin Mackerel in olive oil- drained whole tin

Babyleaf Salad -handful



Chicken- 150g

Babyleaf- handful

Cherry tomatoes - handful

cumber - handful

Boiled egg - 2



Kalo dark chocolate rice cakes- 4

Total greek yoghurt - whole pot 170g



Main:

Chicken breast- 150g

Sweet potato mash - 200g

Broccoli - 100g

Desert:-

85% Dark chocolate - 1 square.



*Sunday*



*Breakfast*



*Snack*



*Lunch*



*Snack*



*Eve Meal*



*Rest Day*

Take it easy and do nothing J

Maybe few little jobs



Salmon-150g

Egg 4 whites and 1 egg

Handful of spinach leafs



Total Greek yoghurt whole pot - 85g

Myprotein diet whey- 1 scoop



Chicken- 150g

Babyleaf- handful

Cherry tomatos - handful

Almonds-30g

Cumber - handful



Kalo Rice cakes - 6

Chopped banana - 1 large

Honey - tablespoon



Main:

Salmon - 150g

Basmati rice - 60g

Asparagus- 100g

Broccoli - 50g

Desert:-

85% Dark chocolate - 1 square.



*My Supplements:-*

Cod-liver oil 1 capsule daily

Vitamin c - 1 table daily

BCAA - 1 scoop daily (mix BCAA, Glutamine and Creatine together and drink during workout)

L-Glutamine - 1 scoop daily

Creatine - 1 scoop daily

Anabolic gold protein - 1 scoop daily (1 after workout but 1 hour before bed)

*My Problem:-*

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on the web so I'm not sure if what I'm doing is correct or not?

Ive been doing this for 4 months now and not really seeing any difference, am I doing something wrong?

What should I be doing for optimal results? what should I change if anything?

I still don't really know what my macro's should be?

Your help and advice would be most welcome.

Thanks in Advance


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## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

first of all hi

I am not being rude but cant be bothered reading through your diet information etcf, what are your daily cals and macros. Ultimately if your not gaining muscle then your not eating enough. post up just daily numbers not per meal.


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

^this just post cals and macros pls op.

also, Body Attack on Thursdays! You do realise that's for girls?

Edit

Welcome


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

As above, also post how much you started lifting for the main barbell movements and how much you are lifting now. If you are lifting the same you'll look the same.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Keep listening to what Eric Helms has to say and you won't go too far wrong. He has both a training and nutrition pyramid - not sure which you know about the check out the other one too.

2000 kcal sounds low to be your maintenance level. Track what you're currently eating in Myfitnesspal, although check the data for each food the first time you enter it as occasionally another user has entered somethng stupid. This will then easily give you macro data as well as calories, although for now simply counting calories and eating about 150g of protein per day will have you covered.

Steop one is to just join the gym and start lifting, so give whatever the PT suggests a go to begin with. Good luck  .

Oh, and there's plenty of people here over 40 - it's not just a kids game.


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

Thanks for the replies everyone, its nice to know there are people willing to help on some of these forums.

I'm still learning Macro's but I have created a Myfitnesspal account and put in what I had over the last/next few days.

The Goals are set as:-
Weighing in at 176 lbs (12st 8lbs)
Weight goal is 159 lbs (11st 5lbs) - not sure if this correct as I don't know what weight I need to be to have definition.
Weekly weight loss is 1.5lbs per week
Activity = Active

This sets the Calories at 2020 per day. again I'm not sure if this correct.

*Yesterday 26/04/2017*

Carbs 37% 127g

Fat 15% 22g

Protein 48% 164g

*Today 27/04/2017*

Carbs 36% 128g

Fat 21% 32g

Protein 43% 152g

*Today 28/04/2017 (will be)*

Carbs 31% 44g

Fat 16% 10g

Protein 53% 76g

As for weights... okay ill try my best to explain 
Barbell when I stated, 5kg on each side plus bar (think is 5?) = 15kg
Barbell now, 7.5/10kg on each side plus bar (again i think is 5?) = 20/25kg

I know I'm getting stronger but im not really seeing any changes in terms of size, definition, shape etc, do i need to do more reps to pump more? or is it jut a case i need to be patient and carry on what I'm doing.

One thing that is reassuring, is that 40 doesn't sound to old to start so ive not missed the boat to achieve what I want out of it. 

Hi PanamaPower,
Sorry being a newbie I don't understand - how will getting my testosterone levels evaluated by an endocrinologist help me get lean and definition.

Thanks


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

natsud said:


> *Today 28/04/2017 (will be)*
> 
> Carbs 31% 44g
> 
> ...


 Hope you're planning to add some more food to that? As it stands that would be terrible!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Myfitnesspal is good for tracking your diet but I would not use it to tell you what to eat. That said, I'll wager you'll lose fat on 2000 kcal so that's not silly (assuming you don't have a really active job). I you end up absolutely starving though I'd increase this target a bit.



natsud said:


> As for weights... okay ill try my best to explain
> Barbell when I stated, 5kg on each side plus bar (think is 5?) = 15kg
> Barbell now, 7.5/10kg on each side plus bar (again i think is 5?) = 20/25kg


 A standard olympic barbell weighs 20 kg. What you're actually using may be lighter but it will be more than 5 kg. If there are any scales in the gym you can find out by weighing yourself, and then weighing yourself again holding the bar - the difference will be the weight of the bar.



> I know I'm getting stronger but im not really seeing any changes in terms of size, definition, shape etc, do i need to do more reps to pump more? or is it jut a case i need to be patient and carry on what I'm doing.


 How many sets and reps are you currently doing per body part per week? Forget about a pump, and worry more about lifting more weight and doing more reps.



> Hi PanamaPower,
> Sorry being a newbie I don't understand - how will getting my testosterone levels evaluated by an endocrinologist help me get lean and definition.


 It won't. The only way you'd benefit is if you had extremely low levels and were put on TRT. This won't happen though because otherwise you'd currently be feeling like crap, which you clearly aren't. You don't need to get your testosterone levels tested as far as I'm concerned.

(Bear in mind that probably the majority of members here use anabolic steroids to increase muscle gains. I don't BTW.)


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

First: your training is way way off! 7 exercises for Shoulders, 6 for bench and 4 for triceps? Far too much, 2 or 3 (max for chest is more than enough) You also are training twice per day chest (push ups at 12pm). Training 6 days a week twice per day? That's a recipe for disaster. You will not make progress like that especially at 40. I know I've done it. Half or less the volume and you will progress!

Second: You don't need your test levels tested, plenty of guys (no AAS) above 40 with great physiques. For the guy in the picture, that physique is very achievable for someone in their 40s with no steroids even if test is low.

Third: Diet looks good actually! but no need to be so precise. Its looks kindof dull, who wants to snack on a tin of mackerel without the oil and a cucumber? lol I wouldn't get any satisfaction from a diet like that but can't knock the nutritional information. Measure cals first. 2000 is way to low cals way to low. Your maintenance is about 2700 or so from this TDEE Then work out macros from your posted diet above and adjust (noting protein requirements of especially), then balance out your food foods (i.e. different types of fats, proper share of veggies / fruit). I doubt you will stick to that nutritional diet as the months roll by. Odd deserts and biscuits are fine, if you want them but just note the calories and macros etc. Dump it all in MFP app and away you go.



Ultrasonic said:


> (Bear in mind that probably the majority of members here use anabolic steroids to increase muscle gains. I don't BTW.)


 haha bit harsh! don't think its the majority, its just those forums are very active as steroids are a minefield of misinformation. You take gear to get past your genetic limit, or you want a short cut and / or are just lazy . Has @Natty Steve'o got to you? :lol:


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> A standard olympic barbell weighs 20 kg. What you're actually using may be lighter but it will be more than 5 kg. If there are any scales in the gym you can find out by weighing yourself, and then weighing yourself again holding the bar - the difference will be the weight of the bar.


 or just put the bar on the scales. .... 

But never seen gym not using a 20kg barbell unless they are buying their gear from argos. Wouldn't fit the rack anyway


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> haha bit harsh! don't think its the majority, its just those forums are very active as steroids are a minefield of misinformation. You take gear to get past your genetic limit, or you want a short cut and / or are just lazy .


 I genuinely think it's true, and an observation rather than a criticism. Or at least I do think the majority (>50%) of active posters use or have used AAS. Can't quite decide if a poll is appropriate or not...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

JohhnyC said:


> or just put the bar on the scales. ....


 Many scales don't register lighter weights on their own, and are less accurate when used away from their normal range.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Many scales don't register lighter weights on their own, and are less accurate when used away from their normal range.


 yeah but its going to be accurate to nearest few kgs at the worst! no 18 or 19kg bars around. Anyway, you can tell just by looking at it the bar



Ultrasonic said:


> I genuinely think it's true, and an observation rather than a criticism. Or at least I do think the majority (>50%) of active posters use or have used AAS. Can't quite decide if a poll is appropriate or not...


 Don't know really, Government say 60k steroid users in UK (2014) however almost everyone I know who used steroids are like many posters on here. Overly keen in their 20's and become gym nuts, but soon wears off and they quit gym and / or gear. Anyway each to their own ....


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

JohhnyC said:


> yeah but its going to be accurate to nearest few kgs at the worst! no 18 or 19kg bars around. Anyway, you can tell just by looking at it the bar


 As I said, some won't even give a reading. I'll admit I partly gave my standard response which covers people training at home when you can get barbells weighing less than 10 kg (the 1" variety).

Edit: note the OP thinks the bar he has might only weigh 5 kg (although I'm confident it's more than this).


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

The guy in the pics you have posted is probably late 20's he also looks like he has trained/lifted for a good few years.

As someone who is well over 40 I can tell you that the gains are very slow, working out 5 days a week with perfect nutrition/rest and a 100% spot on workout regime I would have thought 2-3 years to get to his physique (If at all) I say this because some people no matter what they do/eat/train etc they just don't really progress.

Just keep at it, its all time related.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

What show are you training for?

Far to much over thinking going on here. Get back to basics. and start with a full body workout 2 to 3 times per week depending on your recovery rate. start with 2 x per week. Monday and Thursday for example. lift heavy as you can in the 8 - 10 rep range for 3 sets, do this using compound lifts. Perform exercises like Bench press, rows, squats, shoulder press, shrugs, chins or pull downs, triceps extensions and BB/DB curls calf raises. Eat a healthy balanced diet consisting of good natural whole foods. Train hard and consistently, eat when hungry... a huge factor in muscle growth is rest.

you can be in and out of the gym in 45 mins to an hr.

As you develop and become more advanced you can then split the routine up to allow the body to cope better with the stress it is subjected too...

My 2p worth.


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## gymsteg (Mar 21, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> What show are you training for?
> 
> Far to much over thinking going on here. Get back to basics. and start with a full body workout 2 to 3 times per week depending on your recovery rate. start with 2 x per week. Monday and Thursday for example. lift heavy as you can in the 8 - 10 rep range for 3 sets, do this using compound lifts. Perform exercises like Bench press, rows, squats, shoulder press, shrugs, chins or pull downs, triceps extensions and BB/DB curls calf raises. Eat a healthy balanced diet consisting of good natural whole foods. Train hard and consistently, eat when hungry... a huge factor in muscle growth is rest.
> 
> ...


 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Im far from an expert but i tried to get into lifting several times before it stuck, this type of routine is what made it stick for me. made good progress and because of that progress i gained confidence and consistancy over a longer period of time.


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

wow thanks for all the comments.

I will try and answer each response in order.

Hi Ultrasonic
by the sounds of it i should be adding more. what should it be and to fit marco's?
point noted about Myfitnesspal thanks, and i have a desk job. so yes I'm sat on my ass most of the day.
ive just txt my mate and he say's the bar weighs 20kg. ooooh i was well out with my guess.
i seem to be only managing about 3 to 4 sets per body part with 8-10 reps and mix the days up e.g. swap Monday and Thursday around.
for example, chest... i'll do bench barbell flat, incline, decline... dumbbell fly's, flat and incline... cable flys then go onto Tricep sets.

Monday - shoulders/abs - (with an uphill 12 incline walk on 6.0 speed for 15mins after)
Tuesday - chest/triceps - (with an uphill 12 incline walk on 6.0 speed for 15mins after)
Wednesday - legs/abs 
Thursday - back/biceps - (with an uphill 12 incline walk on 6.0 speed for 15mins after)
Fridays - sometimes a mixture of all of the above or a HITT or nothing as I'm usually friggin knackered
Saturday - sometimes a bike ride with the mrs or jobs around the house
Sunday - full rest day

i think at this point i will park getting my testosterone levels evaluated until i really understand the need and outcome.

Hi JohhnyC

Thanks for the input, this maybe an option.... in that i do slightly less volume, but work more in what i do.

as for the diet I'm quite lucky, as i like salads, veg, salmon etc so its not such a hardship although i think after some time i may need a change.

a few have said 2000 cals is to low, so i need to work out what i should be for best results... this is the hard part for a newbie.

i checked out TDEE, nice site . I'm probably 25% BF which is coming in at 2,495 cals per day.

2,495 looks to be my maintenance? if i need to slightly bulk but loose fat what do i need to do because the site only has "Cutting" or "Bulking" options, i need both

(These macronutrient values reflect your cutting calories of 1,995 calories per day, which is a 500 calorie per day deficit from your maintenance of 2,495 calories per day.)

I'm not sure what or why the reason is for Moderate/Lower/Higher Carb? but the Macros are coming out at 30% protein, 35% fats, 35% carbs

as for steroids its not something i want to get into although ive had a few suggestion to clean bulk and use Clen?

Hi Sparkey

Thanks for the encouragement, this time its a lifestyle change so i can live with 2/3 or 10 years it just would of been nice to of seen some definition before holiday.

Hi Natty Steve'o

Thanks for the info, I'm in and out of the gym in about 45/60mins now so timing works well. One thing i have picked up on is consistently.... 

*Conclusion so far:-*

Raise my cals to around 2500 and eat more clean food to fit in with my macros

Further understand what my macros should be to bulk but lean?

Further understand what my training plan should be?

Get your thoughts on Clen, i don't want to get into steroids but have been told these ant steroids but will it help me get leaner faster?

Thanks everyone for your help and comments.


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

natsud said:


> Get your thoughts on Tren, i want to get into steroids and have been told these will help me get leaner faster?


 Fixed 

on a more serious note, a clen cycle will help you lose a little weight but your weight loss will be mainly diet and training dependant. Imo it's something you would run as you get to target weight if you start to struggle with a few last stubborn pounds.

The sides aren't pleasant, mainly the shaking when you first start, but these do subside.


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## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

natsud said:


> for example, chest... i'll do bench barbell flat, incline, decline... dumbbell fly's, flat and incline... cable flys then go onto Tricep sets.


 Training far too much mate and just making everything too complicated, 7 different exercises for chest if OTT, should be more like just

Bench

Cable Fly's

Incline Bench

Defiantly no more than 3 needed per muscle group.

Same with diet, eat well, high protein track calories and you'll see progress.

Sometimes less is more.

This may well be my first helpful non sarcastic post too!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

natsud said:


> by the sounds of it i should be adding more. what should it be and to fit marco's?


 Not sure I said that. It depends if fat loss is your immediate priority really. I've just seen that you've said you've paid a nutritionist for a diet plan though, so the most obvious first step would be to try that.



> i seem to be only managing about 3 to 4 sets per body part with 8-10 reps and mix the days up e.g. swap Monday and Thursday around.
> for example, chest... i'll do bench barbell flat, incline, decline... dumbbell fly's, flat and incline... cable flys


 You've just listed seven exercises for chest so you can't possibly only be doing a total of 3-4 sets per week for chest...

I'm not a fan of flyes, but even the most enthusiastic advocate is extremely unlikely to suggest doing 4 variations of them in one workout!

To save getting into a detailed discussion I'm just going to suggest you ditch your current routine and try the following instead. It's written as a 4 day per week routine but it doesn't have to be if you want to train less frequently.

https://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696



> as for steroids its not something i want to get into although ive had a few suggestion to clean bulk and use Clen?


 Clen is still a prescription only drug, that you don't need. Take time to properly look into risks associated with it's use if you're seriously considering it though.



> Further understand what my macros should be to bulk but lean?


 Total calories are what determine fat gain.


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

RRSUK said:


> Training far too much mate and just making everything too complicated, 7 different exercises for chest if OTT, should be more like just
> 
> Bench
> 
> ...


 point noted, thanks. consensus seem to be I'm either doing to much or over complicating it.


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Not sure I said that. It depends if fat loss is your immediate priority really. I've just seen that you've said you've paid a nutritionist for a diet plan though, so the most obvious first step would be to try that.


 yes the nutritionist cost me £40 for a beginners plan which my goal then was just to lose weight. but now I want bulk slightly so this is where I'm not sure what I need to do and one of the reasons I ended up on here. my immediate priority is to slightly bulk but lose fat.

I look similar to this but want to look like this as the end goal (but would like to get some shape by July)



> You've just listed seven exercises for chest so you can't possibly only be doing a total of 3-4 sets per week for chest...
> 
> I'm not a fan of flyes, but even the most enthusiastic advocate is extremely unlikely to suggest doing 4 variations of them in one workout!


 that's whats in my plan, ive even got pictures in the original which ive taken out to condense it, again I paid a separate £40 by a PT (unless ive misunderstood what im supposed to be doing from it) maybe I'm supposed to only pick a few out but mix them up each week?

I do Shoulders, Legs, Back & Biceps and Chest & Triceps every week with 3-4 sets and 8-10 reps per set since Jan 2017.

Flat Bench Chest. e.g. set 1 - 50kg plus 20kg bar 8-10 reps.... set 2 - 40kg plus 20kg bar 8-10 reps.... set 3 - 30kg plus 20kg bar 8-10 reps.... sometime set 4.
Incline Bench Chest. same set and rep logic as above "weight will be different"
Decline Bench Chest. same set and rep logic as above "weight will be different"
Dumbbell Incline Flys. same set and rep logic as above "weight will be different"
Cable Flys (pulling to waist - B Pec). same set and rep logic as above "weight will be different"
Cable Flys (pulling to chin - T Pec). same set and rep logic as above "weight will be different"

I believe push and pull routine was mentioned but went over my head.



> To save getting into a detailed discussion I'm just going to suggest you ditch your current routine and try the following instead. It's written as a 4 day per week routine but it doesn't have to be if you want to train less frequently.
> 
> https://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696
> 
> ...


 Link looks interesting I'll do some reading...

Advice appreciated I will do some more reading  do you know anything about Clen, how it works, what it does, cycles, dosage etc etc?

Thanks


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

natsud said:


> do you know anything about Clen, how it works, what it does, cycles, dosage etc etc?


 No. I don't use any prescription only / class C drugs. If you start a new thread in the Steroid section you'll find people who know about it though. Let me reiterate though - you don't need it.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

natsud said:


> my immediate priority is to slightly bulk but lose fat.


 You need to be eating fewer calories that you use to lose fat. As you're new to training and your body fat isn't super low you will probably be able to gain some muscle whilst doing this. I would eat enough calories to be slowly losing weight - say 0.5 to 1 lb per week.


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

JohhnyC said:


> First: your training is way way off! 7 exercises for Shoulders, 6 for bench and 4 for triceps? Far too much, 2 or 3 (max for chest is more than enough) You also are training twice per day chest (push ups at 12pm). Training 6 days a week twice per day? That's a recipe for disaster. You will not make progress like that especially at 40. I know I've done it. Half or less the volume and you will progress!
> 
> Second: You don't need your test levels tested, plenty of guys (no AAS) above 40 with great physiques. For the guy in the picture, that physique is very achievable for someone in their 40s with no steroids even if test is low.
> 
> Third: Diet looks good actually! but no need to be so precise. Its looks kindof dull, who wants to snack on a tin of mackerel without the oil and a cucumber? lol I wouldn't get any satisfaction from a diet like that but can't knock the nutritional information. Measure cals first. 2000 is way to low cals way to low. Your maintenance is about 2700 or so from this TDEE Then work out macros from your posted diet above and adjust (noting protein requirements of especially), then balance out your food foods (i.e. different types of fats, proper share of veggies / fruit). I doubt you will stick to that nutritional diet as the months roll by. Odd deserts and biscuits are fine, if you want them but just note the calories and macros etc. Dump it all in MFP app and away you go.


 Hi,

Ive been trying out the link you provided TDEE and trying to understand the calories and macro's makeup, running the calc for me at 40y male, 180cm, 80kg, moderate exercise at 24% BF (used online calc http://www.active.com/fitness/calculators/bodyfat) comes in at 2,609 cals per day for maintenance.

Which then gives me 3 options further down the page.... 1) Maintenance, 2) Cutting, 3) Bulking. if I select Cutting if gives me a further 3 options, A) Moderate Carb Maintenance (30/35/35), B) Lower Carb - Fat Loss (40/40/20), C) Higher Carb (30/20/50).

I think ive decided I need to Cut but are you or anyone able to help me understand why there are 3 options for carbs and in what circumstances I would need them and which is probably best for me?

thanks



> haha bit harsh! don't think its the majority, its just those forums are very active as steroids are a minefield of misinformation. You take gear to get past your genetic limit, or you want a short cut and / or are just lazy . Has @Natty Steve'o got to you? :lol:


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

Welcome to UK-M!


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

IronJohnDoe said:


> Welcome to UK-M!


 thanks, found the forum very helpful. Ive still got some finer detail to understand like TDEE Moderate Carb Maintenance (30/35/35), Lower Carb - Fat Loss (40/40/20), and Higher Carb (30/20/50) but making progress.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

natsud said:


> thanks, found the forum very helpful. Ive still got some finer detail to understand like TDEE Moderate Carb Maintenance (30/35/35), Lower Carb - Fat Loss (40/40/20), and Higher Carb (30/20/50) but making progress.


 Forget about macro splits and just worry about total calories and eating enough protein - about 1g per lb bodyweight as I think you're focusing on fat loss?

Pick a calorie intake and stick to it. If you're losing fat, great. If not, reduce calories further.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

natsud said:


> thanks, found the forum very helpful. Ive still got some finer detail to understand like TDEE Moderate Carb Maintenance (30/35/35), Lower Carb - Fat Loss (40/40/20), and Higher Carb (30/20/50) but making progress.





Ultrasonic said:


> Forget about macro splits and just worry about total calories and eating enough protein - about 1g per lb bodyweight as I think you're focusing on fat loss?
> 
> Pick a calorie intake and stick to it. If you're losing fat, great. If not, reduce calories further.


 Ultrasonic given you the best advice on this mate, I agree with him, no point in counting it like that, stick with a plan (calories intake) and see how it goes.

Then you could choose high carb low fats or high fats low carbs, guess what they both works it really depends on your diet, I don't count my carbs but I am fully aware that due to what I eat my diet is high carbs low fat mostly


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Forget about macro splits and just worry about total calories and eating enough protein - about 1g per lb bodyweight as I think you're focusing on fat loss?
> 
> Pick a calorie intake and stick to it. If you're losing fat, great. If not, reduce calories further.


 thanks for the info.


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

Hi All,

I just wanted to say *thanks *to everyone who imputed their thoughts, suggestions and advice. Ive taken on board your comments along with *CG88* journal and revamped my training plan to the below.... I think someone said, less is more .

As for calories I will be aiming at 5 meals a day hitting roughly 1800 to 2000 cals and see how that goes for a few months.

*Push (Monday)*
Barbell bench press - 5x5
Incline dumbbell press - 5x5
Standing military press - 5x5
Dumbbell side lateral raise - 5x8-12
Tricep cable pushdown - 5x8-12
Abs/HITT

*Pull (Tuesday)*
Barbell deadlift - 5x5
Cable seated row - 5x8-12
Lat pulldown - 5x8-12
Bent over row - 5x5
EZ Bar bicep curl - 5x8-12
HITT

*Legs (Wednesday)*
Barbell back squat - 5x5
Leg press - 5x5
Leg extension - 5x8-12
Calf raise - 5x8-12
Hamstring curl - 5x8-12 
Abs

*Push (Thursday)*
Close grip bench press - 5x5
Seated military press - 5x5
Flat dumbbell bench - 4x6
Weighted chest dips - 4x6
Skull crusher - 3x10
Abs/HITT

*Pull (Fridays - if I'm at home)*
barbell row - 5x5
Wide grip pull up - 4xfailure
Dumbbell row - 4x6
Dumbbell curl - 3x10
Ez bar curl - 3x10
Abs/HITT

*Legs/Cardio (Saturday - if I'm at home)*
5k or 10k Run

*Sunday full rest day*

I hope ive now got something that's going to work right for me?, if anyone see's anything that needs changing please post.

Thanks

T


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

natsud said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I just wanted to say *thanks *to everyone who imputed their thoughts, suggestions and advice. Ive taken on board your comments along with *CG88* journal and revamped my training plan to the below.... I think someone said, less is more .
> 
> ...


 Not sure how you arrived at that routine but I'd strongly suggest you try the one I linked to earlier in the thread instead.

(I won't go through your whole routine as I would just scrap it to be hoest, but two stand out problems are firstly trying to do 5x5 deadlifts and then 5x5 squats the following day, and trying to do three different push exercises for 5x5 on Monday.)


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## natsud (Apr 24, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> Not sure how you arrived at that routine but I'd strongly suggest you try the one I linked to earlier in the thread instead.
> 
> (I won't go through your whole routine as I would just scrap it to be hoest, but two stand out problems are firstly trying to do 5x5 deadlifts and then 5x5 squats the following day, and trying to do three different push exercises for 5x5 on Monday.)


 Hi *Ultrasonic*

Okay many thanks, for us newbies out there in detail, if you had this routine what would you change exactly and how would it look.

*Pull (was Tuesday now Monday)*
Barbell deadlift - 5x5
Cable seated row - 5x8-12
Lat pulldown - 5x8-12
Bent over row - 5x5
EZ Bar bicep curl - 5x8-12
HITT

*Push (Was Monday now Tuesday)*
Barbell bench press - 5x5
Incline dumbbell press - 5x5
Standing military press - 5x5
Dumbbell side lateral raise - 5x8-12
Tricep cable pushdown - 5x8-12
Abs/HITT

*Legs (Wednesday)*
Barbell back squat - 5x5
Leg press - 5x5
Leg extension - 5x8-12
Calf raise - 5x8-12
Hamstring curl - 5x8-12 
Abs

*Push (Thursday)*
Close grip bench press - 5x5
Seated military press - 5x5
Flat dumbbell bench - 4x6
Weighted chest dips - 4x6
Skull crusher - 3x10
Abs/HITT

*Pull (Fridays - if I'm at home)*
barbell row - 5x5
Wide grip pull up - 4xfailure
Dumbbell row - 4x6
Dumbbell curl - 3x10
Ez bar curl - 3x10
Abs/HITT

*Legs/Cardio (Saturday - if I'm at home)*
5k or 10k Run

*Sunday full rest day*

cheers


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## 47y/o_Lifter (Apr 29, 2017)

That guy in your pic has more muscle than you think.

A LOT more.


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

What is your current condition? I'm not sure if you'll need test at your age or not, I'd be more inclined to say you'll be fine as you won't lose as much as people think


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## Heiken55 (May 17, 2017)

I can't advice you well here. I have just seen your plan. And I believe that you know better what you are doing. Good luck.


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## MakAtak67 (Oct 22, 2017)

natsud said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone, its nice to know there are people willing to help on some of these forums.
> 
> I'm still learning Macro's but I have created a Myfitnesspal account and put in what I had over the last/next few days.
> 
> ...


 Ok. I am new here and for the past 2 years have had trouble managing weight, losing strength and trouble motivating myself to train - previously I trained at least 5 days a week and did mostly cross training and some martial arts.

A few months back I became acutely ill, basically umable to move - long story short was diagnosed with pituitary tumour which had caused adrenal insufficiency, under active thyroid and my testosterone level was less than 0.24 n/mol (off readable scale).

I am now on meds for thyroid and adrenals but endo (NHS) said that testosterone and HGH were a 'quality of life' issue.

After arguments about depression, lethargy, lack of strength, etc I found an endo who also has an interest in sports medicine.

Now started on Nebido (slow release testosterone ) and Genotropin (HGH) and the change is miraculous, even though my T3 and T4 are still 'low normal'.

Now to the point - a GP will test and in some cases testosterone will be 'normal' but the low end of the 'normal' scale. What you have to argue is you want to be 'optimal'.

Now to answer the question - if you have low HGH and low testosterone (short of hypogonadism) your body will store fat around the abdomen, thighs and chest - this is a natural phenomenon as the body stores fat in response to hormone levels.

To get an 'optimal' level you cant look only at testosterone, you need to also look at HGH, T3 and T4.

DHEA is also worth a look.


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