# Im not allowed to shoot backstage at the UKBFF Finals



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Got an email from Geoff Evans from Flex who requested to Bill and Wanda from the UKBFF to let me set up a studio backstage for Flex and the answer is "NO".

So im good enough to shoot the Olympia (my photos speak for themselves) but not allowed to shoot for Flex backstage...

So sorry to everyone who pmd me and asked if I would be backstage but the answer is a big fat "NO"...

Will be interesting to see if anyone else is doing it which wouldnt superise me if someone is..ive learnt very quickly there is a lot of backstabbers out there!

Oh well there loss! At least the NPA are not so short sighted!

Fivos


----------



## Cheese (Jul 7, 2009)

Hard luck mate, judging by the pictures i've seen its their loss!


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Fivos said:


> Got an email from Geoff Evans from Flex who requested to Bill and Wanda from the UKBFF to let me set up a studio backstage for Flex and the answer is "NO".
> 
> So im good enough to shoot the Olympia (my photos speak for themselves) but not allowed to shoot for Flex backstage...
> 
> ...


mate,have you at any time spoken to or had contact with any females in the sport who may have performed in a glamour/porn style shoot at all?if you have then you it may be because of that your not allowed to shoot,bringing the industry into the gutter like that,you heathen! :lol: :lol:


----------



## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

thats harsh matey.. it's the competitors that lose out the most.. was good having you take snaps last year!


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Great shame mate. This sport is bull**** sometimes.

J


----------



## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

You got some great shots last year, such a shame. Surely this game is about the competitors!!?


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

DB said:


> thats harsh matey.. it's the competitors that lose out the most.. was good having you take snaps last year!


Harsh i think is putting it lightly DB...just dont understand why they wont let me its not as though they had backstage photography before at the finals...

Fivos


----------



## LeeB (Oct 5, 2011)

book a hotel room mate and setup a booth... theres going to be loads of people on sat night with nowt to do and still in great nick!

if your quick get some sponsors to advertise on a nice backdrop like they do with the interviews after football matches.... am sure flex would love a few photos of the top guys on the saturday night posing in front of a black background with FLEX in massive letters on it! and theyll all want the publicity!


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Dawn said:


> You got some great shots last year, such a shame. Surely this game is about the competitors!!?


Thanks Dawn, firstly congrats on your win i was welll happy for you when i saw the results..you never gave up on your goal.

As for it being about the competitors..well i just dont believe that..

Fivos


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

leeb said:


> book a hotel room mate and setup a booth... theres going to be loads of people on sat night with nowt to do and still in great nick!
> 
> if your quick get some sponsors to advertise on a nice backdrop like they do with the interviews after football matches.... am sure flex would love a few photos of the top guys on the saturday night posing in front of a black background with FLEX in massive letters on it! and theyll all want the publicity!


Yea may have to look into that...its a service for the competitors i dont even make much if any money...

Ill run it past Flex and see what they say...

Cheers Lee

Fivos


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Ive sent and email to Bill and Wanda asking them why im not allowed to shoot...i wonder if they respond..

Fivos


----------



## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

This is a real shame Fivos. Will you still be able to take some of the show?


----------



## martzee (Sep 11, 2007)

looks like things are changing big time with the ukbff,obviously they have there reasons and our thoughts on the subject right or wrong unfortunatly wont change a thing.Maybe a hotel room is the way forward mate as im sure there will be alot of takers.

There are alot of issues in the ukbff that need adressing from competitors and video/photo crews etc,We should nominate a panel of representatives who are reconized by the ukbff to fight the corner for the competitors and crew after all without them there would be no ukbff british bodybuilding.


----------



## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Flex Factor said:


> Mate your photos speak for themselves which would lead one to think there is some other agenda going on not to let you take the shots which would ultimately enable the most accurate memories of the night.


Thats what i was thinking......

Such a shame that they have taken this decision. I agree with the setting up a booth in a hotel broom, print out some cards and hand them out at the show so that competitors know where to find you and your camera:thumbup1:


----------



## Cheese (Jul 7, 2009)

Mrs Weeman said:


> Thats what i was thinking......
> 
> Such a shame that they have taken this decision. I agree with the setting up a booth in a hotel broom, print out some cards and hand them out at the show so that competitors know where to find you and your camera:thumbup1:


Agreed, I wouldn't go speaking to Flex for there permission.

Ok it may ruffle their feathers a bit but what are they going to do... not let you shoot backstage... oh hang on :whistling:

Go for it mate.


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

To be honest its really f$$%ked me off...just dont understand why they wont even let me shoot it for Flex? Its like they dont wont the competitors to have the best shots...last year my quick snaps of James were used as the lead page in Flex so i thought if i set up a proper studio the pics will be superb...i gave all the competitors the pics for free..even paid the recorded delivery charges myself..

At least they should be man enough to tell me if someone else is doing it...

Fivos


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Unreal mate. I guess they're not happy unless they've got their fingers in all the pies.

Hotel room idea is genius though, better area to set up and more privacy for the competitors. :thumb:


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Seems if they're not making money from it then its a no go, even if it is a great service for the competitors.


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

defdaz said:


> Seems if they're not making money from it then its a no go, even if it is a great service for the competitors.


Daz i even offered them 20% of the profits..thats if i was doing it for myself..but they wont even let me shoot it for Flex backstage..its commical!

I look at a Hotel...

Fivos


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

I love the people who run the ukbff so much at times.


----------



## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

Your photos are top quality..what i don't understand is why they let you do it last year but not this year.

I would just go with the hotel idea, ultimately it's the athletes choice whether they want to be photographed or not, and i'm sure most of them would want some good quality pics and the chance to potentially appear in Flex magazine.


----------



## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Fivos mate...thats sh1t news buddy.

But its clearly obvious why.......the quality from what i have seen of yours is top notch...and they dont like it imo.

Im sure there will be plenty of guys who will still use you pal.


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Hotel room it is then.

I'd get onto it right away tho mate as I know a lot are rammed not just because of the BBing but also the Boxing title fight on sat night about 5 mins down the road from the theatre.

J


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

It is fairly obvious to me that the UKBFF are now looking at running the federation more like a business. I guess this is inevitable in the current economic climate and with the way things are done Stateside and have been done there for many years.

Things are being shook up and unfortunately there will be casualties in all of this.

J


----------



## lockstock (May 12, 2006)

Just another reason why i fvcked this federation off... I hate the way the UKBFF treat the competitors and that goes for male and female competitors. If your face doesnt fit then forget it.

Because the UKBFF is a stepping stone to the IFBB they think they can treat you however they want... Sh1t, comes to mind!

Thats why ive gone over to NABBA, my first time this year and i actually loved how welcome they made me feel! Cant wait for next year....

Sorry to hear about you being bummed Fivos.... It just sucks, you are more than worthy to be taking top quality photos back stage!

I hope you will be at the NABBA finals next year, whatever you would like to charge then thats what i would gladly pay! :thumbup1:


----------



## stevewinter (Oct 8, 2009)

Just to set the record straight and stop all the gossip and speculation. The UKBFF is having to start to run like a business in order for it exist. Everyone competes at the shows, and their only contribution to the UKBFF for the whole year is the yearly membership fee which in all honesty is minimal. Most people do not think twice about spending significant amounts of cash on food, supplements and "extras" yet the minute the UKBFF try to make some money to allow them to exist, everyone complains. The amount of money charged by the UKBFF to compete is minimal especially when considering for example the guys competing in this years World Powerlifting Championships have to pay £100 just to compete and the cost of competing at The British finals was £60. None of these guys complain as they understand that the venues cost money and the organisation needs cash to carry on.

Secondly the UKBFF have recognised that the quality of the video/dvd etc has to date, been rather poor and is not a good reflection of the UKBFF and is not a decent record of events for the competitor to keep. This year the UKBFF are trying something different. They have got a media company to come to the event and record the show with numerous cameramen. They will also be doing backstage interviews etc to make it more entertaining. Eric Guy has been requested by the UKBFF not to video this year and concentrate on photography and has been told why. This years DVD's will be a far better quality and far more entertaining than previous years and will be well worth the money. This in itself will help attract more sponsorship to fund the running of the UKBFF without raising costs to the competitors.

The UKBFF website is also being rebuilt and will have show updates, reports and video clips as well as inteviews etc. The whole idea is to try and get the UKBFF on a par with America. This is a positive move for bodybuilding as we are also working on promoting the sport as a whole. It would be great if those involved in the sport supported the organisation instead of undermining it at every turn but still expecting them to organise the shows that they want to compete in.

We should be mindful that those that complain may themselves be losing money or just not getting their own way or what they want. The UKBFF does have the interests of the competitors and the sport as a whole at heart. They are heavily governed by the IFBB and unfortunately have to enforce rules at times they may in fact not like.

The video footage and photos from all shows will be available from the official media company for use by any other media publications including Flex mag etc should they be interested, but the UKBFF will be benefiting financially themselves, instead of the independent photographers etc. This way the UKBFF has control over what is being publicised and is clawing back some of the money it pays out, instead of providing a platform for everyone else to make money.

The UKBFF is looking to make changes, move forward and provide a better service to the competitors and to promote bodybuliding . Give them a chance and support them. If you dont they wont be able to continue.


----------



## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

stevewinter said:


> Just to set the record straight and stop all the gossip and speculation. The UKBFF is having to start to run like a business in order for it exist. Everyone competes at the shows, and their only contribution to the UKBFF for the whole year is the yearly membership fee which in all honesty is minimal. Most people do not think twice about spending significant amounts of cash on food, supplements and "extras" yet the minute the UKBFF try to make some money to allow them to exist, everyone complains. The amount of money charged by the UKBFF to compete is minimal especially when considering for example the guys competing in this years World Powerlifting Championships have to pay £100 just to compete and the cost of competing at The British finals was £60. None of these guys complain as they understand that the venues cost money and the organisation needs cash to carry on.
> 
> Secondly the UKBFF have recognised that the quality of the video/dvd etc has to date, been rather poor and is not a good reflection of the UKBFF and is not a decent record of events for the competitor to keep. This year the UKBFF are trying something different. They have got a media company to come to the event and record the show with numerous cameramen. They will also be doing backstage interviews etc to make it more entertaining. Eric Guy has been requested by the UKBFF not to video this year and concentrate on photography and has been told why. This years DVD's will be a far better quality and far more entertaining than previous years and will be well worth the money. This in itself will help attract more sponsorship to fund the running of the UKBFF without raising costs to the competitors.
> 
> ...


the ukbff has the ukbffs interest at heart.

now you do make some valid points mate, but thats not one of them.

i dont know the financial situations but there are some aspects to the ukbff that certainly do not have the competitors or sports best interests at heart.

it was however good of you to come on and do soem explaining, that will be appreciated.


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

stevewinter said:


> Just to set the record straight and stop all the gossip and speculation. The UKBFF is having to start to run like a business in order for it exist. Everyone competes at the shows, and their only contribution to the UKBFF for the whole year is the yearly membership fee which in all honesty is minimal. Most people do not think twice about spending significant amounts of cash on food, supplements and "extras" yet the minute the UKBFF try to make some money to allow them to exist, everyone complains. The amount of money charged by the UKBFF to compete is minimal especially when considering for example the guys competing in this years World Powerlifting Championships have to pay £100 just to compete and the cost of competing at The British finals was £60. None of these guys complain as they understand that the venues cost money and the organisation needs cash to carry on.
> 
> Secondly the UKBFF have recognised that the quality of the video/dvd etc has to date, been rather poor and is not a good reflection of the UKBFF and is not a decent record of events for the competitor to keep. This year the UKBFF are trying something different. They have got a media company to come to the event and record the show with numerous cameramen. They will also be doing backstage interviews etc to make it more entertaining. Eric Guy has been requested by the UKBFF not to video this year and concentrate on photography and has been told why. This years DVD's will be a far better quality and far more entertaining than previous years and will be well worth the money. This in itself will help attract more sponsorship to fund the running of the UKBFF without raising costs to the competitors.
> 
> ...


Believe me i dont make no money out of photos if anything ive always made a loss. I do it because:

1. I am a good photographer.

2. I have the competitors interests at heart.

3. Im a competitor myslef

Photography is not my main income so i dont need to be doing it. If i did then i certainly wouldnt be doing shows i would do weddings etc were proper money is made. So please do make me out to look like all im interested is in making money.

Me wanting to shoot backstage was geninune and I have been asked by many competitors if i will be backstage as the competitors reconize the quality of my work, hence people suggesting i use a Hotel. So its only fair to those people who want me to shoot them to understand why i may not be at the finals backstage.

It makes no difference to me if i do it or not. Ive reached the pinnacle of any photographer and thats shooting the Olympia and having my peers tell me that my photos are some of the best they have seen.

Fivos


----------



## clarkey (Feb 11, 2007)

Fivos if you need any help finding hotel etc give me a shout bud I live around 10 mins from Nottingham City Centre and will be more than happy to look for you, especially as you were kind enough to take those pics of me last year and send for free off your own back:thumbup1:

ps if you want my number just pm me or get off James..


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

with exposure in this sport so hard to get i fail to see how this is in the best interest of the athlete....


----------



## Jojo 007 (Feb 9, 2009)

stevewinter said:


> Just to set the record straight and stop all the gossip and speculation. The UKBFF is having to start to run like a business in order for it exist. Everyone competes at the shows, and their only contribution to the UKBFF for the whole year is the yearly membership fee which in all honesty is minimal. Most people do not think twice about spending significant amounts of cash on food, supplements and "extras" yet the minute the UKBFF try to make some money to allow them to exist, everyone complains. The amount of money charged by the UKBFF to compete is minimal especially when considering for example the guys competing in this years World Powerlifting Championships have to pay £100 just to compete and the cost of competing at The British finals was £60. None of these guys complain as they understand that the venues cost money and the organisation needs cash to carry on.
> 
> Secondly the UKBFF have recognised that the quality of the video/dvd etc has to date, been rather poor and is not a good reflection of the UKBFF and is not a decent record of events for the competitor to keep. This year the UKBFF are trying something different. They have got a media company to come to the event and record the show with numerous cameramen. They will also be doing backstage interviews etc to make it more entertaining. Eric Guy has been requested by the UKBFF not to video this year and concentrate on photography and has been told why. This years DVD's will be a far better quality and far more entertaining than previous years and will be well worth the money. This in itself will help attract more sponsorship to fund the running of the UKBFF without raising costs to the competitors.
> 
> ...


I think you will find the main reason Fivos wanted to offer his servives at the finals and take pictures of competitors is because HE HAS BEEN ASKED BY MANY COMPEITORS TO DO SO!!! Surely if the UKBFF paid attention to what their members wanted, then they would have realised by now how many UKFBB competitors are expecting him to be there, and how disappointed they will be. Fivos charges a nominal amount for show competitors just to cover expenses and he even offered a percentage to the organisation. If the UKFBB arent having any photographers backstage, and are now running the organisation as a business like you said above, then why not take Fivos up on the offer of a percentage cut!?!?

Anyhow, its a shame its the competitors who lose out at the end of the day, nobody else!


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be fair if the UKBFF had the competitors interest at heart they would be offering a Pro card to a female overall winner??


----------



## Jojo 007 (Feb 9, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair if the UKBFF had the competitors interest at heart they would be offering a Pro card to a female overall winner??


AGREED :rockon:


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

clarkey said:


> Fivos if you need any help finding hotel etc give me a shout bud I live around 10 mins from Nottingham City Centre and will be more than happy to look for you, especially as you were kind enough to take those pics of me last year and send for free off your own back:thumbup1:
> 
> ps if you want my number just pm me or get off James..


Clarkey thanks mate ill let you know and it was pleasure taking you pics...

Fivos


----------



## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

fcuk that...cant believe it...your pics are top friggin notch,and as you say from the most biggest comp in bodybuilding and here...jeez,what is that about!!!

are there no other ways round it?

have they seen the quality of your pics and that you was shooting the olympia ffs!!!

the more exposure they get is better i would of thought,everyone moaning about doesnt get enough coverage,needs more good media etc and i'm sure the competitors wouldnt mind,more exposure for them too ffs...their loss then!!!


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2009)

Definatley their loss after seeing the olympia pics you took! Obviously everyone wants you to do it, and rightly so. If i were you mate, i wouldnt even waste my petrol turning up to the show!!!!


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

If they've made their minds up then that's that. No use trying to use reason and common sense with the ukbff top brass.


----------



## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

cant we start a campiagn or a signed something for you to take to them and say look...i've got a lot of public wanting/demanding that you shoot...

blimey...your just trying to promote the damn sport,in a good way ffs!!!

exposure for all...crying out loud,surely this is stepping forward,not keeping it closed off!!!


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

anabolic ant said:


> fcuk that...cant believe it...your pics are top friggin notch,and as you say from the most biggest comp in bodybuilding and here...jeez,what is that about!!!
> 
> are there no other ways round it?
> 
> ...





anabolic ant said:


> cant we start a campiagn or a signed something for you to take to them and say look...i've got a lot of public wanting/demanding that you shoot...
> 
> blimey...your just trying to promote the damn sport,in a good way ffs!!!
> 
> exposure for all...crying out loud,surely this is stepping forward,not keeping it closed off!!!


Yep all i want to do is shoot the show...at the end of the day im a bodybuilder myself and ive always wanted someone to take some studio shot type pics to record the day.

Thanks everyone for your support...

Fivos


----------



## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

Fivos said:


> Yep all i want to do is shoot the show...at the end of the day im a bodybuilder myself and ive always wanted someone to take some studio shot type pics to record the day.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your support...
> 
> Fivos


mate i feel for you...good luck with future ventures...and keeping training hard and taking them excellent pics bro:thumb:!!!


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

stevewinter said:


> Just to set the record straight and stop all the gossip and speculation. The UKBFF is having to start to run like a business in order for it exist. Everyone competes at the shows, and their only contribution to the UKBFF for the whole year is the yearly membership fee which in all honesty is minimal. Most people do not think twice about spending significant amounts of cash on food, supplements and "extras" yet the minute the UKBFF try to make some money to allow them to exist, everyone complains. The amount of money charged by the UKBFF to compete is minimal especially when considering for example the guys competing in this years World Powerlifting Championships have to pay £100 just to compete and the cost of competing at The British finals was £60. None of these guys complain as they understand that the venues cost money and the organisation needs cash to carry on.
> 
> Secondly the UKBFF have recognised that the quality of the video/dvd etc has to date, been rather poor and is not a good reflection of the UKBFF and is not a decent record of events for the competitor to keep. This year the UKBFF are trying something different. They have got a media company to come to the event and record the show with numerous cameramen. They will also be doing backstage interviews etc to make it more entertaining. Eric Guy has been requested by the UKBFF not to video this year and concentrate on photography and has been told why. This years DVD's will be a far better quality and far more entertaining than previous years and will be well worth the money. This in itself will help attract more sponsorship to fund the running of the UKBFF without raising costs to the competitors.
> 
> ...


Steve im all for the UKBFF being more professionally run..im a competitor myslef. Ive seen enough shows in America to realise how much the UKBFF can improve. Having just come back from the Olympia i can see how far behind the UKBFF is but there is no reason why this cant be rectified one step at a time.

All the best photographers at the olympia seem to be british as well...so why arent any shooting the UKBFF Finals? If you want the organisations to be professional then why not have the best people working for you?

When you dont put the overall winner of last years finals as the main picture on this years final poster that just about says it all. And to be honest its an insult to James and all his hard work.

If the UKBFF are heavily goverened by the IFBB as you said then why not use me for photography? To shoot the Mr Olympia my pictures had to be vetted by Weider Head Office in california...

If the UKBFF have another photographer backstage then fair enough i have no issue with that..but as far as im aware you dont.

Onstage photography is good but backstage photography is more professional as you can control the lighting and get all the detail from the subject.

I hope you take my points and they are meant as dont take this as sour grapes but more dissapointment as i was looking forward to shooting the show.

Fivos


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

anabolic ant said:


> mate i feel for you...good luck with future ventures...and keeping training hard and taking them excellent pics bro:thumb:!!!


Cheers pal like is said its no loss to me...i dont want to sound arrogant but its not like i need the money my job in IT pays well...i just like shooting shows. Ive been a photographer for over 20 years so its a hobby as well, but my level of photography is that of a professional.

Ill always train and take pics...ill just shoot the IFBB Pro Shows and do shoots for Flex.

Fivos


----------



## lockstock (May 12, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair if the UKBFF had the competitors interest at heart they would be offering a Pro card to a female overall winner??


DITTO!


----------



## fit1 (Mar 27, 2009)

Hi Steve, good you came on to explain, i know theatres and advertising shows ect, ect is not free and we are all feeling the ecconomic pinch but surely income comes from ticket sales and sponsorship ect also is a fee paid by promoters running qualifiers. You might even find people can not afford more expensive pictures and videos.


----------



## stevewinter (Oct 8, 2009)

Fivos

Give us a call at the gym 01622 792211.

I understand your feelings but call me and let us have a chat and we may be able to help.

The UKBFF are trying very hard to change for the better. They know they have some issues they need to address. Promoters make money from shows and ticket sales and only give a small amount to the UKBFF.

Just for the information of those on this site, they are trying to change for the better. Give them a break. Maybe spend some energy helping out instead of using it to put them down.

Fivos call!!!


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

stevewinter said:


> Fivos
> 
> Give us a call at the gym 01622 792211.
> 
> ...


Hey Steve will do pal..like i said its never been my intention to upset anyone...all i want to do is take photos..I think my post and others are more out of frustration and as this site seems to be the main avenue for views to be expressed issues like this will always come up.

At the end of the day we are all competitors and want the best for everyone..

Fivos


----------



## stevewinter (Oct 8, 2009)

Fivos give us a call. Trust me we are not the enemy. We have the interests of the competitors at heart and we want whats best for everyone. No-one likes change. We want good quality photos and dvd's for everyone at an affordable price. We all know how much time effort and hard work goes into competing but like it or not the UKBFF do need to be making some money.

Call us because we are in a position where we may be able to help.


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Good points put across well.

As Fiv says, its more about fustration for him. He doesn't need to make money from this, just offer his superb service for those that have dieted so bloody hard and as a record of their incredible achievement of making it to the National finals.

Def call Fiv, Steve wants the changes to work and benefit not just the UKBFF but also the competitors and the fans. Changes always upset and unsettle people and it doesn't help with people jumping on the hating band wagon. Give things a chance and help make it work.

It's all about uniting not fighting....I like that slogan!!!!!

J


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Ok everyone i just spoke to Steve (didnt realise it was Steve from Ministry...who as always been very helpful to me)..and we are trying to sort things out for the best for everyone.

So lll update everyone with news as soon as i get it..

Fivos


----------



## colloseum (Oct 20, 2008)

stevewinter said:


> Fivos
> 
> Give us a call at the gym 01622 792211.
> 
> ...


And those promoters are majorically who? Now lets see: Sugar Cristopher promotes Leicester, Sarah Bridges promotes Gravesend, Scott Horton promotes The Hercules, Kerry Kayes the North East....hold on....I see a pattern forming here, aren't most of the shows promoted by UKBFF officials? There's a hint of hypocracy there, If things are that tight, then charity begins at home!


----------



## stevewinter (Oct 8, 2009)

Kerry Kayes made a speech at this years Birmingham saying he has given over £70000 to bodybuilding this year. I promoted the Kent Klassic this year with Sarah Bridges and can tell you there are not huge pound notes to be made as venues are expensive. Scott Horton has been holding WABBA shows for years and only became a UKBFF official this year. Anyone can hold a qualifier and James Collier has just agreed to hold a new show this year. Sean Furguson is not an official either. Come on less bitching and more support


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Indeed without the support of KK the sport of bodybuilding would be in a fairly poor place.

I dont think people realise the work that goes into promoting a show and the measly returns (if any) there are to be made. They do it because they love the sport and want to see it grow. And if there is a pound note spare after paying for venue, staff, tickets, cleaners, sanction fee's, hours of their own time etc, then good for them!!

I work out of the Ministry of Muscle not for the Ministry of Muscle so am not biased here but the work these guys put in for not only the bodybuilding show at Gravesend but also the Strongman event there, was mind blowing. Not forgetting the prize money for the Strongman event.

If only you knew...

J


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

colloseum said:


> And those promoters are majorically who? Now lets see: Sugar Cristopher promotes Leicester, Sarah Bridges promotes Gravesend, Scott Horton promotes The Hercules, Kerry Kayes the North East....hold on....I see a pattern forming here, aren't most of the shows promoted by UKBFF officials? There's a hint of hypocracy there, If things are that tight, then charity begins at home!


Cynicism in its purest form.

Great input!! :thumb:

J


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

I'm confused, is Steve on the ukbff committee?

Also I'm not sure why the ukbff not getting much money has been mentioned - Fivos' service would earn them an additional income so surely that's a moot point? The question is why do the ukbff not want any backstage professional-standard photography?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i agree that we all should join together to push the sport forward in the UK be that UKBFF or NABBA to be fair though to fully do this the UKBFF must stop dictating to its athletes...i agree with Steve that it must be one step at a time i feel that one of the first steps is to give the female athletes the recognition they deserve and award a Pro Card to the overall winner.....getting some of our girls out into the Pro Ranks is a damn good way to promote the UK bodybuilding scene....wouldn't you agree....?


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Does it cost money for the ukbff to sponsor a competitor to the ifbb?


----------



## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

bummer that..... ive just saw your post on another board about sharing a taxi with on the way the olympia, it would have been an awsome experiance being back stage at the olympia.


----------



## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm shocked i did'nt no women dont get pro-cards for overall wins....That is discusting...Truely disrispectfull to the women who compete......


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

The ruling about women not getting pro cards at the UK Finals is an IFBB decision NOT a UKBFF decision as far as I am aware.

I agree though, the overall women should get a pro card, just as the men do.

J


----------



## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

thats out of order mate, set up your own shoot as everyone else has suggested. your quality speaks volumes you'll be very busy:thumb:


----------



## hertderg (Jun 15, 2007)

This tread has been a great eye opener but what would disappoint myself in this position is the fact that an explanation was not initially given to Fivos or anyone at Flex as to why he couldn't take back stage photo's.

Steve kindly posted an explanation here and explained the positive changes to be made for the future but I'm sure an email from someone at the UKBFF would have resulted in this tread taking a different slant from the start.

I hope Steve manages to sort something out for you Fivos , keep us updated.

:beer:


----------



## stevie flynn (Sep 5, 2006)

i was gona say ' i cant believe this'.... but this is the ukbff were talking about, so yes, I CAN believe it... sadly the ukbff once again prove that they are well out of touch with the very people who keeep them in business....

muppetts..!

fiv, your work speaks for itself mate... ;-)

steve


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

hertderg said:


> This tread has been a great eye opener but what would disappoint myself in this position is the fact that an explanation was not initially given to Fivos or anyone at Flex as to why he couldn't take back stage photo's.
> 
> Steve kindly posted an explanation here and explained the positive changes to be made for the future but I'm sure an email from someone at the UKBFF would have resulted in this tread taking a different slant from the start.
> 
> ...


Hi mate i spoke to Steve and i should be meeting with him on Sunday to discuss our options. I also recieved an email fro Bill Tierney who is in Holland at the moment attending a show and asked me to give him a call on Monday...so I think maybe we will sort something out and ill be (hopefully) be at the finals...

Thanks everyone again for your support...

Id like to shoot all shows and all federations. The week after the UKBFF ill be shooting the NPA Finals...

Hopefully next year more feds will give me the oppurtunity to shoot the shows, :beer:

Fivos


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

stevie flynn said:


> i was gona say ' i cant believe this'.... but this is the ukbff were talking about, so yes, I CAN believe it... sadly the ukbff once again prove that they are well out of touch with the very people who keeep them in business....
> 
> muppetts..!
> 
> ...


Thanks Steve, im still going through the 3500 odd pics from the Olympia. Once ive sorted the majority ill post some of the forums and the rest ill post on my web site...

So far i have had requests for 6 top Olympia pros foe the pics I took of them. With one well known pro saying that they were the best he has seen,

Fivos


----------



## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Fivos said:


> Hi mate i spoke to Steve and i should be meeting with him on Sunday to discuss our options. I also recieved an email fro Bill Tierney who is in Holland at the moment attending a show and asked me to give him a call on Monday...so I think maybe we will sort something out and ill be (hopefully) be at the finals...
> 
> Thanks everyone again for your support...
> 
> ...


Careful, you know how stroppy they get over playing in other feds playpens....Don't blow it by mentioning that you won't devote your life to them and them alone....how very dare you do business with other feds athletes? :lol:

Good luck for Monday,hope it goes your way!!


----------



## fitpics (Sep 27, 2009)

As a professional photographer, that solely makes my living from photography, I hope I am permitted here to put my thoughts on this matter forward, as I can see god points from both sides.

Fivos you mention you make no money from photo sales as you give many photos away for free, so offering 20% or even 50% of the profits is not going to be in the UKBFF interest you take you up on the offer, as 50% of nothing = nothing!

The official photographer is at the event usually at their own expense and rely 100% on selling prints to not only break even but to maybe make a small profit, even after paying a percentage to the promoter in commission....if you get 3 or 4 photographers turning up and giving away prints or doing them for next to nothing as you have another job that pays you bills or puts food on the table for your kids, then you can see there is a conflict of interests. If the official photographer is being commissioned and paid to be at the show, then I am sure they would not care how many 'un-official' photographers turned up, but I doubt that will ever happen.

I have been in that situation myself and it is a bit of a p*sstake....at the same time I can appreciate where you are coming from as well as I was informed by UKBFF to take photos of the recent Leamington show off my website or to stop selling them....even though I had many emails from the competitors myself telling me how much better my images were than the 'official' photos, which had half the leg and trophy missing from key shots!

One thing I will pick up on though, which isn't really any business of mine is the comment that the promoters are making money from the show but passing very little back to the UKBFF...sorry but it is the promoters taking a big financial risk putting on the show and if it makes a financial loss are the UKBFF prepared to compensate...of course not...so really it should be up to the promoter if he wants to make his / her own arrangements with a video or photographic company and have the commission paid to them direct not the UKBFF...the UKBFF could license say 10 photographer for a yearly fee, the promoter would then be free to choose from any of those 10 companies, this way both sides make money and only companies with a proven quality track record should be licensed, this way competitors are assured of a quality product should they decide to buy anything from the show.

At the moment saying the only photographer allowed to cover the shows who by their own admission has not been producing the goods competitors are happy with is contradicting the statement of controlling quality.

where will it end will the UKBFF tell the promoters which trade stands can set up at shows and commission from sales be handed to them as well..because commission from that trade is no different from commission from photo sales.

sorry for the rambling post!!!


----------



## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

fitpics said:


> As a professional photographer, that solely makes my living from photography, I hope I am permitted here to put my thoughts on this matter forward, as I can see god points from both sides.
> 
> Fivos you mention you make no money from photo sales as you give many photos away for free, so offering 20% or even 50% of the profits is not going to be in the UKBFF interest you take you up on the offer, as 50% of nothing = nothing!
> 
> ...


If they are pics that YOU took then YOU own the copyright.....i don't understand what gives then a LEGAL right to instruct you to do/not do anything with them,unless you signed a contract with the UKBFF giving them copyright to the pics.


----------



## fitpics (Sep 27, 2009)

Mrs Weeman said:


> If they are pics that YOU took then YOU own the copyright.....i don't understand what gives then a LEGAL right to instruct you to do/not do anything with them,unless you signed a contract with the UKBFF giving them copyright to the pics.


You are absolutely correct the copyright remains the property of the photographer and their argument was that I had took the photos without the permission of the competitors and 'what gave me the right to sell them on my website' without written permission!

I could have argued about it, and asked had 'their' official photographer got a signed release themselves, from everyone on stage, if not then they too were in contradiction of the policy told to me.

I would like to know how they are going to identify the intentions of anyone using a camera at future shows, although it was mentioned to me that bags might be checked at future shows and cameras not permitted at all unless 'official', although personally I think they would have a riot on their hands if they were tell a husband he could not photograph his wife or girlfriend at a show.


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Reminds me of when I tried to seek permission to take photos at motorcycle track days for practice and was refused each and every time by the organisers or the track owners because they had an appointed 'official' photographer.

Sure you need to protect any photographer paying for exclusivity but if there's no-one backstage with this exclusivity already then what is the problem?


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

fitpics said:


> As a professional photographer, that solely makes my living from photography, I hope I am permitted here to put my thoughts on this matter forward, as I can see god points from both sides.
> 
> Fivos you mention you make no money from photo sales as you give many photos away for free, so offering 20% or even 50% of the profits is not going to be in the UKBFF interest you take you up on the offer, as 50% of nothing = nothing!
> 
> !!!


RE REad my post that not what i said...i said if i take snaps then im happy to let the hardworking athletes have copies for free...you have to give to recieve...example..I did James L pic for free and they got used in Flex, from that i got more shoots in Flex and the next thing im shooting the Mr Olympia. Im a firm beliver in giving back to the sport and if that means making a loss then its really not something that most of us who compete arnt used to. Ive been competing for over 20 years do you think ive ever made any money?????

I love the sport and love taking shots. Competitors recognize the quaity of my work and are happy to pay a fee for the pics I take. The UKBFF will be intitled to an agreed % of the money made. This will be agreed my Bill/Steve and myself.

People forget that im am competitive bodybuilder as long as ive been a photograher so i personally think i have an edge on your run of the mill photographer that juts presses a button and the fact I own £15-20k worth of camera equipment!

Fivos


----------



## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

fitpics said:


> You are absolutely correct the copyright remains the property of the photographer and their argument was that I had took the photos without the permission of the competitors and 'what gave me the right to sell them on my website' without written permission!
> 
> I could have argued about it, and asked had 'their' official photographer got a signed release themselves, from everyone on stage, if not then they too were in contradiction of the policy told to me.
> 
> I would like to know how they are going to identify the intentions of anyone using a camera at future shows, although it was mentioned to me that bags might be checked at future shows and cameras not permitted at all unless 'official', although personally I think they would have a riot on their hands if they were tell a husband he could not photograph his wife or girlfriend at a show.


Thanks for clearing that up,was curious what 'excuse' they would come up with to try to justify......did you take the pics down or stop selling them just to keep the peace?

I know that my other half has NEVER signed a release form at ANY of the shows he has competed in....in fact,i don't know ANYONE who has signed a release form before stepping on stage...with ANY federation....hmmmm interesting.(FIVOS: i would maybe stick with the hotel room plan so that you are not done over!)


----------



## fitpics (Sep 27, 2009)

Fivos said:


> RE REad my post that not what i said...i said if i take snaps then im happy to let the hardworking athletes have copies for free...you have to give to recieve...example..I did James L pic for free and they got used in Flex, from that i got more shoots in Flex and the next thing im shooting the Mr Olympia. Im a firm beliver in giving back to the sport and if that means making a loss then its really not something that most of us who compete arnt used to. Ive been competing for over 20 years do you think ive ever made any money?????
> 
> I love the sport and love taking shots. Competitors recognize the quaity of my work and are happy to pay a fee for the pics I take. The UKBFF will be intitled to an agreed % of the money made. This will be agreed my Bill/Steve and myself.
> 
> ...


I wasn't knocking you Fivos, you do what you do and if you have come to an agreement with the UKBFF, good for you..I was putting a point from both sides of the coin...for every pic you give away because if helps you get a photo-shoot etc away from the show is a dip in commission for the UKBFF, and the whole reason for them tightening up on non official photographers at events is for them to start getting money out of the photographers they approve, from their shows, although personally I believe this should always go to the promoters who are the only people dipping into their pockets and taking a financial risk not them.


----------



## fitpics (Sep 27, 2009)

Mrs Weeman said:


> Thanks for clearing that up,was curious what 'excuse' they would come up with to try to justify......did you take the pics down or stop selling them just to keep the peace?
> 
> I know that my other half has NEVER signed a release form at ANY of the shows he has competed in....in fact,i don't know ANYONE who has signed a release form before stepping on stage...with ANY federation....hmmmm interesting.(FIVOS: i would maybe stick with the hotel room plan so that you are not done over!)


I didn't take them down, but I did agree not to sell them, just to keep the peace, too much work went into taking and editing them to remove them all...they can still be seen at www.fitpics.co.uk ...I have been a professional photographer for over 14 years, I am the 'official' photographer to professional National Sporting organisations as well as a couple of amateur ones and have books and books on photography and the law, so knew basically a lot of what I was being told was in-correct (or the way explained to me severely in-correct) but agreed to toe the line in this case.


----------



## Jojo 007 (Feb 9, 2009)

I thought this was all sorted out earlier....can't believe its still going on after Fiv put on here earlier that he spoke to Steve, and also had an email from Bill (who is actually in Holland), and they have arranged to have a meeting?!?!?!?  :lol:


----------



## Jojo 007 (Feb 9, 2009)

fitpics said:


> I wasn't knocking you Fivos, you do what you do and if you have come to an agreement with the UKBFF, good for you..I was putting a point from both sides of the coin...for every pic you give away because if helps you get a photo-shoot etc away from the show is a dip in commission for the UKBFF, and the whole reason for them tightening up on non official photographers at events is for them to start getting money out of the photographers they approve, from their shows, although personally I believe this should always go to the promoters who are the only people dipping into their pockets and taking a financial risk not them.


I prefer to use the term s*** stirring!  :lol: Don't know who you are fitpics, but it seems to me you have only joined the forum to get involved in this argument and to get your wooden spoon out  ......is there an ulterior motive here i wonder :whistling: hmmmmmmmmmmm :cool2:


----------



## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

Jojo 007 said:


> I prefer to use the term s*** stirring!  :lol: Don't know who you are fitpics, but it seems to me you have only joined the forum to get involved in this argument and to get your wooden spoon out  ......is there an ulterior motive here i wonder :whistling: hmmmmmmmmmmm :cool2:


oh a wooden spoon, KINKY......... reow............ :whistling:


----------



## fitpics (Sep 27, 2009)

JoJo...it might be sorted out for Fivos (and hopefully he has got a good deal out of it) but other people will still need to know where they stand, from the spectator hoping to take photos of their friends or family through to the professional photographer who may have made a personal arrangement direct with a promote only to find that the UKBFF has brought in their own show photographer and backstage photographer.

So this is far from sorted, but i'm sure all will become clear in due time, which will make for more discussion, I expect


----------



## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

Fivos mate - I tried calling you twice yesterday mate, but no go. I too would like to talk to you about this buddy.

I spoke to Eric on the phone about this yesterday. Please call me tomorrow


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

fitpics said:


> I wasn't knocking you Fivos, you do what you do and if you have come to an agreement with the UKBFF, good for you..I was putting a point from both sides of the coin...for every pic you give away because if helps you get a photo-shoot etc away from the show is a dip in commission for the UKBFF, and the whole reason for them tightening up on non official photographers at events is for them to start getting money out of the photographers they approve, from their shows, although personally I believe this should always go to the promoters who are the only people dipping into their pockets and taking a financial risk not them.


If a magazine aprreciates the qulaity of my work then why wouldnt they wnat to use me. The fact the James is a very good freoind of mine i was never going to charge him so please get your facts straight before you air them on a public forum. I was one of many photographers taking shots at the show..

Anyway this thread is done and dusted..if you have a problem with this thread i suggest you start a new one and dont taint this one!

Fivos


----------



## Jojo 007 (Feb 9, 2009)

fitpics said:


> As a professional photographer, that solely makes my living from photography, I hope I am permitted here to put my thoughts on this matter forward, as I can see god points from both sides.
> 
> Fivos you mention you make no money from photo sales as you give many photos away for free, so offering 20% or even 50% of the profits is not going to be in the UKBFF interest you take you up on the offer, as 50% of nothing = nothing!
> 
> ...


thats exactly what Fivos does, him going to the shows is all at his own expense, he only makes money if competitors buy his photos....please get ur facts straight! And he has even offered the UKBFF a percentage on any he sold  ....


----------



## fitpics (Sep 27, 2009)

Why stirring...I thought this was a forum for discussion...I did put two sides to the argument..... ulterior motive, if you mean if I am going to drive say a couple of hundred miles, pay for a hotel all out of my own pocket to shoot a show at the request of the promoter and turn up to find 3 or 4 other photographers just turning up on the day and giving their cards out, I would like to know what is going on so that I can make up my mind whether to go, before hand.. then, maybe...is that an ulterior motive or just asking for clarification...I think the later, what you think is up to you, which is your right


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

fitpics said:


> JoJo...it might be sorted out for Fivos (and hopefully he has got a good deal out of it) but other people will still need to know where they stand, from the spectator hoping to take photos of their friends or family through to the professional photographer who may have made a personal arrangement direct with a promote only to find that the UKBFF has brought in their own show photographer and backstage photographer.
> 
> So this is far from sorted, but i'm sure all will become clear in due time, which will make for more discussion, I expect


At the end of the day ill do the shoot or not...the meeting with Bill/Steve and Myself will sort it. I know the ins and out of how these things are run believe im no mug!

Job done

Fivos


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Ex-SRD said:


> Fivos mate - I tried calling you twice yesterday mate, but no go. I too would like to talk to you about this buddy.
> 
> I spoke to Eric on the phone about this yesterday. Please call me tomorrow 07799831120


Hi James ill bell you tommorow pal.

Fivos


----------



## LeeB (Oct 5, 2011)

This thread highlights a problem that ALL federations currently have... communication... the communication between feds and their members tends to take place primarily on forums such as this... inevitably it ends up with "opinions" taking prescendence over fact.. which is only ever bad for the sport and ourselves as competitors.

from what ive seen the UKBFF are actually attempting to progress... 2 day finals, new format DVD, more qualifying shows, new website planned... plus people associated with the ukbff have listened to the opinions on here and attempted to make steps toward a solution.. at least give them a chance!

i really liked fivos' pics from last year and im sure im not the only one, including the officials within ukbff... lets hope they find a way to get this thing back on track because these types of photos can only be a good thing for the athletes and for publicity of the ukbff!

but it wont be solved overnight and maybe not even at all... but fivos will still be here next year... as will the ukbff finals... i just hope your taking pics this year mate cos ill be there and i want you to make me look half decent!


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fivos said:


> Id like to shoot all shows and all federations. The week after the UKBFF ill be shooting the NPA Finals...
> 
> Fivos


i have two athletes at the NPA finals Fivos i will make sure they come and speak to you about pics mate....



Jojo 007 said:


> I thought this was all sorted out earlier....can't believe its still going on after Fiv put on here earlier that he spoke to Steve, and also had an email from Bill (who is actually in Holland), and they have arranged to have a meeting?!?!?!?  :lol:


you should know Jo nothing is really ever sorted on a discussion board...


----------



## avril (Mar 5, 2005)

this situation is such a shame...the federation exists because the athletes do...not the other way around...

its a lovely thing fivos that you try to do for the competitors...not many things come cheap or free to competitors.

i hope you get things sorted with the photos...get a tent set up in the car park ha ha ......and its also refreshing to see UKBFF are finally doing something good to change the way they run things...its been a long time coming.

you certainly dont get these issues with nabba or wabba or infact other federations...and ive competed with many of them...

onward and upward UKBFF.....get it right for the guys and gals on your stage and you will win more supporters..


----------



## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Ok Ive just had a very lengthy chat will Bill Tierney re this issue and i can honestly say that i got the situation with the photography very wrong and im eating a big slice of humble pie. Looking back i can see that my post was very emotionally written...i should have phoned Bill and talked it over.

Bill actully sent me an email on friday when he and Wanda were in Holland so you can see he took the time to try to contact me to help me with setting up the backstage issue.

Bill was very accomadating with my proposal with me wanting to shoot backstage and we discussed what we would both like to do and how it would benefit both myself and the UKBFF. Its the UKBFF/IFBB that let me shoot the Olympia so i shouldnt forget that.

When i know im wrong i am the first person to hold my hands up and admit it and this is one of those times (something my parents taught me from a very young age!).

Before anyone says anything im writing this post because i know i was in the wrong in the way i handled this and not because ive been told to.

So im just trying now to sort out accomadation etc to be at the finals.

Ill be speaking to Bill tommorow to let him know my schedule.

Fivos


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Congrats mate, great news! Might be worth getting this thread deleted?


----------



## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

And they all lived happily ever after.

Glad that dialogue has sorted this out.

J


----------



## VIDEO ERIC (Aug 25, 2005)

Alls well that ends well


----------



## Diamond (Jul 28, 2007)

Fivos said:


> Ok Ive just had a very lengthy chat will Bill Tierney re this issue and i can honestly say that i got the situation with the photography very wrong and im eating a big slice of humble pie. Looking back i can see that my post was very emotionally written...i should have phoned Bill and talked it over.
> 
> Bill actully sent me an email on friday when he and Wanda were in Holland so you can see he took the time to try to contact me to help me with setting up the backstage issue.
> 
> ...


You naughty, naughty boy, Fivos LOL:lol:


----------



## papageno (Oct 21, 2009)

where are the photos ??? i don 't see nothing !!!


----------

