# Gh makes you Insulin resistant??



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Reading a thread on pro muscle ifbb/emeric-delczeg mentions how gh can increase insulin insensitivity and be detrimental to your physique and health for obvious reasons

what are people's thoughts on this???

I have found most effect time to take gh is first thing in the morning in a fasted state


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Gh raises blood sugar from what ive read and insulins used to lower it,one reason

For that combo...


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

mal said:


> Gh raises blood sugar from what ive read and insulins used to lower it,one reason
> 
> For that combo...


When a normal person eats a carbohydrate, the body converts the sugars into glucose, and stores them in the cells for usage. This process is a result of the release of insulin. Unfortunately when you are taking to much GHH it makes you insulin resitent, a person who is insulin resistant does not respond to glucose in the blood properly, which is why it will most likely be converted into fat. In addition to this, insulin resistance can often lead to a high level of insulin being released into the blood, in an attempt to get the cells to recognise the free glucose. As a consequence, the cells have become either partially or completely 'resistant' to the normal insulin response, so they continue to demand glucose.

Taken from the thread so in theory if your insensitive to Insulin due to gh, then this would be the worse thing to take??


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Wl you could eeasly put the theory to test ,get a bg moniter while on gh and

Just check your readings after food see how quick it lowers etc.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the key term in there is 'too much' many do not understand this and just then say 'GH makes you insulin resistant'


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Am sure it's only at high levels of hgh, like 15-20iu+ aday


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> the key term in there is 'too much' many do not understand this and just then say 'GH makes you insulin resistant'


lol nail on the head. Bodybuilding 'Scientists' reading the conclusions of studies to make them look like a knowledgable guru.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Smoog said:


> lol nail on the head. Bodybuilding 'Scientists' reading the conclusions of studies to make them look like a knowledgable guru.


exactly just like me saying if you eat food you will gat fat, which is a true statement


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

[



Pscarb said:


> the key term in there is 'too much' many do not understand this and just then say 'GH makes you insulin resistant'


He did mention that he dies not use any gh at all due to this,

A large dose lets say 8 iu?

Makes you in in resistant is it not best to take this in a fasted state rather then let's say pwo with a loada carbs??

Also just out of intrest any idea how to get this taptalk crap off?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bail said:


> [
> 
> He did mention that he dies not use any gh at all due to this,
> 
> ...


honestly mate i cannot work out what your saying or asking in this post


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Very true,

How this guy is a pro I'm not gonna get in to the debate whether or not he posting the truth as how long is a piece of string?

Just find it intresting how he avoids all gh due to this,thus he's implying how much better you are off being as insulin sensitive as possible rather than use gh ,

And come to think of it I know three guys who have all placed in the nationals who have never taken gh. ( this is just a little observation)


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

@Smoog sorry man didn't quote can't get this taptalk crap to work!


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Sorry not great at getting my point across in writing

Basically saying according to this logic,

If the presence of any gh makes you insulin intensive, do you not think it's better to take your gh in a fasted state ie first thing

Rather than the standard protocol of high dose of gh/slin with a lot of carbs pwo,

@Pscarb


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

bail said:


> @Smoog sorry man didn't quote can't get this taptalk crap to work!


lol it's no problem mate. Thing is with a handful of 'Pro's' and their sponsorships/affiliations it's a case of 'do as they say, not as they do'. You're going to have to judge yourself how effective HGH on your training can be and try and single it out if you come unstuck. Personally, I take the stuff during a diet on a morning and haven't hit a wall or anything. Nutrition and training is top as with what little supplements I take and gear, so I don't think it's anything to worry about.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Smoog said:


> lol it's no problem mate. Thing is with a handful of 'Pro's' and their sponsorships/affiliations it's a case of 'do as they say, not as they do'. You're going to have to judge yourself how effective HGH on your training can be and try and single it out if you come unstuck. Personally, I take the stuff during a diet on a morning and haven't hit a wall or anything. Nutrition and training is top as with what little supplements I take and gear, so I don't think it's anything to worry about.


I do find it most effective for fat loss to take first thing before cardio now you mention it,

Yeah it's very hard to see through the sh!t when it comes to what the pros write lol,


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

bail said:


> Sorry not great at getting my point across in writing
> 
> Basically saying according to this logic,
> 
> ...


I've seen the logs of a few big guys who run HGH with insulin, I'm struggling to find the reasoning behind it though.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Smoog said:


> I've seen the logs of a few big guys who run HGH with insulin, I'm struggling to find the reasoning behind it though.


Got to 110kg at 5.8 myself by using that protocol,

And a lot of guys do use it

Gh and slin together also create a large spike in igf

However going by this guys words what ever his name is in order to stay as insulin sensitive as possible he is saying to avoid all carbs around your gh shot,

you could say that's bullsh,t the increase in igf makes up for that

just tryna get some heads scratching really lol,

Have you tried gh slin together??


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

bail said:


> Got to 110kg at 5.8 myself by using that protocol,
> 
> And a lot of guys do use it
> 
> ...


Not yet, I'm on a diet so I'm keeping away from my slin pens. Going to give it a blast when I'm less strict though.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bail said:


> Sorry not great at getting my point across in writing
> 
> Basically saying according to this logic,
> 
> ...


to be fair that is not the standard protocol it is a protocol many would like to think is the standard as many like to think they are at a high level 

you can become insulin resistant by using GH just like you can become fat by eating food, but we all know that one fatty meal does not make you fat and in the same vein shooting a high amount of insulin does not make you insulin resistant all of a sudden.....it is like many things in life in the right set of circumstances this might/will happen....

i have used GH for many years at many different doses and many different times of the day and i am not insulin resistant, you have to take evidence like this with a pinch of salt like i say it is like saying food will make you fat.....

GH use in the morning in a fasted state is effective due to it releasing FFA's into the blood stream to be used by the cardio it has nothing to do with insulin resistance....

do i think this can happen, yes without doubt but you would have to use a lot over a period of time (don't ask me how long and what dose as there is no one answer) along with a bad diet for it to happen, just adding GH will not make this happen imo


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair that is not the standard protocol it is a protocol many would like to think is the standard as many like to think they are at a high level
> 
> you can become insulin resistant by using GH just like you can become fat by eating food, but we all know that one fatty meal does not make you fat and in the same vein shooting a high amount of insulin does not make you insulin resistant all of a sudden.....it is like many things in life in the right set of circumstances this might/will happen....
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity : what would be the effect then if a diabetic toke HGH i am confused


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

grant hunter said:


> Just out of curiosity : what would be the effect then if a diabetic toke HGH i am confused


what are you confused about?


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> what are you confused about?


Being diabetic me having to inject insulin on a daily basis. Would this hinder the effects of the gh, the the fat reducing property's etc or would it benefit as I have no idea if it would need a different protocol to run it??


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair that is not the standard protocol it is a protocol many would like to think is the standard as many like to think they are at a high level
> 
> you can become insulin resistant by using GH just like you can become fat by eating food, but we all know that one fatty meal does not make you fat and in the same vein shooting a high amount of insulin does not make you insulin resistant all of a sudden.....it is like many things in life in the right set of circumstances this might/will happen....
> 
> ...


That is very true also doesn't take into account the many things that one can do to make ourselves insulin sensitive,

Just out of interest what is FFA release I've heard of this before??


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

grant hunter said:


> Being diabetic me having to inject insulin on a daily basis. Would this hinder the effects of the gh, the the fat reducing property's etc or would it benefit as I have no idea if it would need a different protocol to run it??


GH can be beneficial to diabetics but you would need to research and do some trial and error as your GH/IGF-1 axis i could not give you or suggest a protocol for you i am afraid mate



bail said:


> That is very true also doesn't take into account the many things that one can do to make ourselves insulin sensitive,
> 
> Just out of interest what is FFA release I've heard of this before??


FFA's are Fatty Free Acids they are released in 2 distinct ways that we would be interested in...

GH/Peptide use

HIIT cardio or training

once released into the blood stream they ned to be used or they will be stored back...

i just looked at a study i have on my Mac concerning insulin resistance and GH, and as it clearly says the use of GH will reduce insulin sensitivity BUT this does not happen over night plus

"Observation of the effects of GH replacement therapy has helped our understanding of the role of GH in glucose metabolism. In the short term, there is an increase in insulin insensitivity. However, as lean body mass (muscle) increases and fat mass is reduced, long-term insulin sensitivity gradually improves.

administered to abdominally obese men, it led to a reduction in abdominal fat, and a reduction in insulin insensitivity"

so using GH can actually increase insulin sensitivity via increase in lean mass and reduction in abdominal fat.........


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> GH can be beneficial to diabetics but you would need to research and do some trial and error as your GH/IGF-1 axis i could not give you or suggest a protocol for you i am afraid mate
> 
> FFA's are Fatty Free Acids they are released in 2 distinct ways that we would be interested in...
> 
> ...


Cheers anyway mate it's such a hard one as there isn't any real trails been posted by any diabetics. And here was me thinking you were the gh guru haha only kidding


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

grant hunter said:


> Cheers anyway mate it's such a hard one as there isn't any real trails been posted by any diabetics. And here was me thinking you were the gh guru haha only kidding


ha ha i have had clients use GH whilst being diabetic but it is tricky depending on what method you want to use, i never give out information that i feel could harm mate......

essentially small amounts of GH will not cause any real issues so try using small amounts initially and gauge progress and your diabetes


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> ha ha i have had clients use GH whilst being diabetic but it is tricky depending on what method you want to use, i never give out information that i feel could harm mate......
> 
> essentially small amounts of GH will not cause any real issues so try using small amounts initially and gauge progress and your diabetes


That's fair enough mate no probs I was just asking out of interest. Is there anyway you could say who the people you have worked with are as I would like to see or ask them a few questions regarding how they bulk/cut etc while being diabetic


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> GH can be beneficial to diabetics but you would need to research and do some trial and error as your GH/IGF-1 axis i could not give you or suggest a protocol for you i am afraid mate
> 
> FFA's are Fatty Free Acids they are released in 2 distinct ways that we would be interested in...
> 
> ...


Funny that, I was just reading a study about insulin sensitivity vs progressive training in Normal BF women and High BF women. It concludes that insulin sensitivity hardly increases in the HBF women compared to the NBF women who's sensitivity increased 95%.

Bulkers reconsider :laugh:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24072034/?i=79&from=insulin+sensitivity+and+resistance+training


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

High dose GH would be much more of a factor for us and more likely to cause such a thing

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1806481

The 'only' way to know would be to test you blood glucose levels as high blood sugar and low blood sugar can be a side effect of GH


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> GH can be beneficial to diabetics but you would need to research and do some trial and error as your GH/IGF-1 axis i could not give you or suggest a protocol for you i am afraid mate
> 
> FFA's are Fatty Free Acids they are released in 2 distinct ways that we would be interested in...
> 
> ...


Many thanks for reply Paul interesting read,


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## rakim (Apr 1, 2009)

I think stimulants can help with ffa release.


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