# Lab Discussion



## Lorian

*Should Lab Discussion be allowed on the forum?*​
Yes10188.60%No1311.40%


----------



## Lorian

Should we allow the discussion of different steroid labs/manufacturers?

If you have arguments for or against the idea feel free to post them in this thread.

If we do allow Lab Discussion then it would almost certainly be in a sub-forum of the main steroid board and there would be a minimum post entry requirement.

L


----------



## gym rat

thats a cracking idea lorian,


----------



## Littleluke

yes so long people don't start using it like the freeads.


----------



## Lorian

gym rat said:


> thats a cracking idea lorian,


Cheers - the Mod team helped me out a lot with these. I put forward a stack of suggestions and asked that they ripped them apart.. what's left are the best ones which will be posting here.

Remember to vote! .. 

L


----------



## am1ev1l

Lorian said:


> Should we allow the discussion of different steroid labs/manufacturers?
> 
> If you have arguments for or against the idea feel free to post them in this thread.
> 
> If we do allow Lab Discussion then it would almost certainly be in a sub-forum of the main steroid board and there would be a minimum post entry requirement.
> 
> L


I think it'd be very useful to be able to discuss labs/manufactures in terms of performance, dosing and fakes. What we don't want is it becoming an advertisement for different labs so either strict rules regarding the context of mentioning them or as you said a minimum post entry would probably work or ensuring that people have actual evidence backing up their statements rather than saying brand X at 250mg/ml was stronger than brand Y at the same dose with nothing to back it up.

In most cases people will just want reassurance that the gear they are getting or have got is legit so this could help a lot of people out.


----------



## beequeth

It would be a useful facility to have.

Especially as there are so many labs around, nobody can be an expert on all of them.


----------



## Magic Torch

I say no....I mean its your source you trust not the lab? I would use what ever brand my guys gave me cause I trust them, in that I mean that they must have used the gear before or know the person making the gear....

If you allow lab discussion then your open to the whole slating labs scenario....that said in a hidden forum it could work, or expand the Male animal to a whole new subsection, one for labs, one for home brew, one for naughty pics etc....


----------



## jw007

good idea to have in section like male animal with min posts etc, will stop lab promotion and if get offered stuff by other labs will be able to get reliable feedback.....

Trusting the source is fine, but sometimes they can get hoodwinked


----------



## robdog

Lab discusion is fine imo. Promoting labs or trying to slate labs for no other purpose other than to push another lab is a no no.


----------



## Jimmy1

personally i like black labs

golden ones are good

i never will trust brown labs though...nasty i hear!!!!!


----------



## Jimmy1

damn

just found out they are all fakes

never trust net sources for labs i tell ya!!!!!


----------



## brasco

> If we do allow Lab Discussion then it would almost certainly be in a sub-forum of the main steroid board and there would be a minimum post entry requirement


Good idea mate!


----------



## DB

I think its fine.. just like we are open on our opinions of protein supps i think its fair enough with AAS.. its just when it kicks off when people are defending their source/lab it gets tricky


----------



## Robsta

I like the male animal idea. min posts etc.


----------



## Slamdog

Although i'm not a user, I think lab discussion within strict guidelines would help people.

i.e. dosing, real/fake, usage would be ok... slating or promoting labs, sourcing, buying or selling a strict no no.

i see a lot of people say 'xyz lab is a painful jab' which would be useful but seeing 'xyz lab is painful, use abc lab instead' is plain pimping...

min posts male animal section is a good idea too.


----------



## Captain Hero

Robsta said:


> I like the male animal idea. min posts etc.


I like that idea


----------



## wogihao

Thing is when people get ill from some labs gear its very hard to determin if the source hasnt been messing with the gear (dilution, ghost vials ect). or if the guy/girl is a tool and has used unsound injection techniques.

In a ideal world everyone would use pharma gear but with poorly contected individuals its just not a option. and some like the feeling of danger of injecting somthing some pot head cooked up in a dirty kitchen (muhahaha straf injections be dammed.... hardcore..)

What I would say is you would need to have real experence with the product not just BS and chinese wispers. To many people on other sites jump on a bandwagon and slate a product without even trying it themselves.

Sites like BOS do lab test ect on the gear doseing ect and its quite intresting to discuss that aspect but even with labs with underdosed gear he still pimps them..


----------



## TypeR

DB said:


> I think its fine.. just like we are open on our opinions of protein supps i think its fair enough with AAS.. its just when it kicks off when people are defending their source/lab it gets tricky


yeah i agree, at least then you can see whats **** and whats not and reduce the amount of theifts around.

Ben


----------



## jsav

The problem is keeping it impartial and stopping old lab rivalry and personalities clouding the issues. Example, another well known forum has a grudge with R__M so there products dont get a look in on that site (although nobody has actually tried the stuff), a similar thing happens on here with W_____t where as other forums have a very different view, another board has a greviance with A___ so they are slated on that board.


----------



## coco

ug labs play a large/important role in aas using bodybuilders

therefore i think discussion is an excellent idea, the communtiy should be able to help each other out through discussion of there experiences, good or bad.

blatant slating/promoting is a no-no and tbh is usually very obvious and spotted in seconds.


----------



## wogihao

I just think it would be a nightmare to moderate impartialy. It would become a real hotspot for flames ect. as everyone has there own adjenda at some level.

I cant realy blame some guy who lost a chunk out of his leg slateing a lab, but then whos to say that it wasnt something that happeend between the lab and the guy that went wrong? its very hard to pinpoint. Also as you usualy have a central suplier for regions you can never be sure if its them that is causeing the issue.

What I can predict happening is guys that have intrests in the suply or the labs themselves getting very upset when there livelyhoods are threaned by negative stories about there products, your have huge moderation issues because who do you side with? and it presents issues of impartiality as we all know that many forums are sponsored by diffrent labs - thus the diffrence in opinion, they might not get money but the mods will get free gear ect so it stands to reasion they would pimp that lab.

As far as I know this place is not sponsored by any lab, but when you open a discussion like this is rases questions on how you could prove that the mods are truely impartial or are just puppets for a lab.

Before you all neg me out of existance consider why should i trust the opinion of a faceless internet person? I dont know there motive ect... for all i know the guy slateing one lab could be working for another.

It presents a great problem in finding out the real truth - hopefully by the time the guys are thinking of useing they will have a base of real world expreneced friends or aquantiences that they can depend on and not need this service.


----------



## Craig660

i think it would be a excellent idea to bring source requsting back on the open board. . . . . only joking lol, . . i personally think it would be a good thing to have in the male animal,


----------



## justdiscovering

think its a good idea but why couldnt it be made like the male animal and all newbies and people under 300 posts be made to qualify first .^^^^great minds eh??^^^^^


----------



## ARNIE

good idea,we can then compare the good bad and the ugly.


----------



## Tinytom

wogihao said:


> your have huge moderation issues because who do you side with? and it presents issues of impartiality as we all know that many forums are sponsored by diffrent labs - thus the diffrence in opinion, they might not get money but the mods will get free gear ect so it stands to reasion they would pimp that lab.
> 
> As far as I know this place is not sponsored by any lab, but when you open a discussion like this is rases questions on how you could prove that the mods are truely impartial or are just puppets for a lab.
> 
> .


No one on the mod team is sponsored by any lab.

Yes I use and prefer certain labs and so do everyone else but I have consistently, when talking about labs, stated that its only my opinion and that I cant comment on labs I havent used. I have used a variety of products in the past and I cant recall ever slating a product, I may warn against a products use/overuse but then thats warranted if you are talking about a highly toxic or androgenic product and part of the job here is to help guide and protect users without the experience that I have.

The only mod issues arise when you get knobs trying to push a product through misleading posts and defrauding members, none of the more established ones do or need to do this as their products sell themselves.

Then as soon as a mod edits the post you get people saying that they must be sponsored by a certain lab. No I just dont like blatant lies and deceit.


----------



## PRL

Great Idea.


----------



## Lost Soul

I like the idea

Unfortunately log onto some UK boards an funnily enough the same people post 'good to go' when their lab comes up and 'must not be lab XXXXXX' if the person thinks the gear is sh1te. The same names appear from the same network of sources and their cling on boys

Patterns appear and if you can wade through that its a great idea.

I listen to the more established users on this board knowing the info is good and i dont think we have the kinda people here as other boards do


----------



## wogihao

Thats the thing, I had good experences with some labs, never realy had a bad experence. But then from a outside view how could anyone realy prove they were not biased ect... Sometimes i read stuff on other boards and I think "but i used the same product line and it was fine...." it seems so individual some times I wonder if theres real value in the discussion at all.

That said there seems to be some labs with issues that come up again and again.

I guess im just nit picky lol.


----------



## Aftershock

In any lab discussion environment I agree you need to learn to read between the lines, however doesn't mean that having a place to discuss them is a bad idea, quite the opposite in fact.

The guys that have access to such a forum should be savvy enough to question the opinions of people they don't respect.

You have to take the bad with the good unfortunately, but on the whole it provides a useful information for the board members IMO.


----------



## diaita

*its a great idea*,but by bringing in a minimum posting rule wont that mean the guys and girls who are just starting out,and IMO are going to be the people asking the Q's with the more experience A the Q's.the same rules of posting applied stick to the Q asked, no flaming, no highjacking.by only allowing a direct answer to a specific Q.so no(they're sh1t m8 try supadupa labs) and no polls


----------



## dan2004

Id say NO. It's hard to find a good honest lab now days that produce quality products so discussing them on an open board could lead to prosecution.


----------



## nibbsey

Go for it , sounds like a good idea, min post thing the best idea just don't make the amount to high.


----------



## Rayman

If it helps to keep us all safe bring it on.


----------



## dmcc

I can see pros and cons. Yes, it helps other forum users inform themselves and get an idea of who's trustworthy and who has a less-than-stellar reputation. But at the same time, the mods could well be working overtime trying to keep it impartial.

However, given that we have a Home Secretary who seems to regret that she was not born into Hitler's Germany, I'd recommend you got some damn good legal advice first to ensure that you couldn't be accused of anything.


----------



## 3752

i say yes to this as many just want to know what they have bought or going to buy has a history of under dosing etc...

There will be strict rules about posts that say "i used XYZ labs and built 30lbs of muscle in 2 weeks" these posts will be deleted and the member banned mainly for being stupid....


----------



## wogihao

Thats the other thing, English based labs? I dont think its a good idea to be discussing them on the forum. Not because there not good but just to avoid heat for these places.


----------



## dan2004

wogihao said:


> Thats the other thing, English based labs? I dont think its a good idea to be discussing them on the forum. Not because there not good but just to avoid heat for these places.


Yes, good point mate. More where i myself was coming from in that respect.


----------



## Lost Soul

Where would potential users gather feedback from on meds though?

If it was universal across the net then yes, keep them under wraps but put any of the UG labs in circulation into a google search and the small board here will be well down the list as other boards are always going to talk about these


----------



## darkiwi

Rayman said:


> If it helps to keep us all safe bring it on.


i voted yes ,it would be a useful if it is keeped under control and free of peoples stupid uneducated rants. cheers for the hard work behind the scenes mod's


----------



## TomTom1

why not have a forum where anyone can read but to post you have to have made 250+ posts?


----------



## miami797

Sounds good. That was one of those rules that seemed to have a big gray area anyway, especially in the aas picture forum.


----------



## Tinytom

I think anyone should be able to view but only those with a certain number of posts should be able to post there.

That way everyone can benefit from the info but fraudulant scammers cant exploit it.


----------



## Robsta

Agree....


----------



## ainslie

I say go for it but i think there will have to be an age limit who goes in there. I mean if 14 yr olds can access it this will cause probs. Can you set something up where they need to confirm their DOB. Just covers your back a little


----------



## simeon69

Tinytom said:


> I think anyone should be able to view but only those with a certain number of posts should be able to post there.
> 
> That way everyone can benefit from the info but fraudulant scammers cant exploit it.


spot on there!

just out of interest why was it not allowed in the first place?


----------



## Robsta

ainslie said:


> I say go for it but i think there will have to be an age limit who goes in there. I mean if 14 yr olds can access it this will cause probs. Can you set something up where they need to confirm their DOB. Just covers your back a little


Good idea. there should be a credit card verification system where you have to give a mod your credit card details and pin number......


----------



## miami797

Besides scammers, it will limit it to only people who have been long enough to know not to go in there and start asking for sources.


----------



## justdiscovering

dont you get enough protection money from the MK residents rob????


----------



## Robsta

I wish...


----------



## Andy1972

Its the guys just starting out who don't have a reliable source who ask the lab questions so putting a minimum post limit on the forum would make it pointless, the people who want the information won't be able to access it


----------



## Lost Soul

Tinytom said:


> I think anyone should be able to view but only those with a certain number of posts should be able to post there.
> 
> That way everyone can benefit from the info but fraudulant scammers cant exploit it.


With all due respect there are scammers who post frequently on UK boards and are accepted into the community


----------



## dmcc

Can we have a "don't know" option? I really can't decide on this one.


----------



## Craig660

dmcc said:


> Can we have a "don't know" option? I really can't decide on this one.


no point, its heading for a thumbs up with the vast majority saying yes!


----------



## Lost Soul

Craig660 said:


> no point, its heading for a thumbs up with the vast majority saying yes!


Still worth it as others may have the same ideas

Similar to going to a hairdressers and saying 'i want a number one all over' and the barber saying 'no point everybody is having mullets and blonde highlights now, must go for that'

no good if thats not your choice even if the masses will set the trend


----------



## Aftershock

justdiscovering said:


> dont you get enough protection money from the MK residents rob????


define enough


----------



## Robsta

Lost Soul said:


> With all due respect there are scammers who post frequently on UK boards and are accepted into the community


Not on this board mate...no scammers here who are accepted into this community....


----------



## Robsta

Andy1972 said:


> Its the guys just starting out who don't have a reliable source who ask the lab questions so putting a minimum post limit on the forum would make it pointless, the people who want the information won't be able to access it


Not really as they can always pm a mod if they need to know something and can't post...


----------



## Lost Soul

Robsta said:


> Not on this board mate...no scammers here who are accepted into this community....


Oh OK


----------



## Tinytom

Maybe I should clarify Robstas statement.

If the mod team find out about a scammer that has been accepted into this community then they would be out QUICK.

We can only act on what we know.


----------



## shauno

i voted yes.

i think the pros outweigh the cons


----------



## miami797

The cons always outweigh the pros in the black market. Don't let anyone tell you different.


----------



## dmcc

Craig660 said:


> no point, its heading for a thumbs up with the vast majority saying yes!


But what about those members who cannot make their voice heard because they don't have that option? In any election, the number of abstentions or spoiled ballots is always more telling than the number for any particular option or candidate.


----------



## Lorian

I've decided to work on a 70% majority vote needed for any change.

The majority have spoken.. so .. from this moment onwards we will permit lab discussion within the main steroid forum and see how it goes for a few weeks.

If it becomes problematic to manage then we'll create a dedicated sub-forum with a minimum post entry limit.

Thanks everyone who voted!

L


----------



## John Doe

I'm brand new and haven't started a cycle yet. I know that my opinion means squat; however, I'd like to offer my two cents anyway. Discussing labs and brand names would definitely help people, especially the newcomers. However, I think that there might be a risk in that discussing lab names openly would allow law enforcement to gather intelligence easily. This might not be a pertinent issue for UK users; it would, however, be an issue for American users. As we all know, many American AS users are members here. Many purchase AS through on-line pharmacies located in the UK and throughout Europe. I think that open discussion of lab names would aid American law enforcement investigations and put AS producers, distributors, and users on both sides of the Atlantic in jeopardy. You all remember operation "Raw Deal," don't you? The US was responsible for imprisoning several suppliers and producers many of which resided outside of the US. Perhaps my fears are unwarranted or overly dramatic. However, I would hate to see something like that happen again, and I feel that any decision that might make things easier for the feds would be unwise.


----------



## miami797

It wasn't just the US involved in that. The US side of the Operation just got the most notice.

No one would be saying anything that the feds wouldn't already get from US based open source forums. People are mostly going to be giving opinions on gear, not giving out information on where to buy it or where it's being made. That's what mods are for and it's also why you'll probably need a minimum post count to have access.

The feds are pretty much worried about US manufacturers and suppliers. That and raw material sources. I understand that our countries work hand in hand with things like this, but I still wouldn't be too worried about the feds if you're over in the UK. You have your own government to worry about, besides yours doesn't care as much about AAS as ours.

Unless the laws have changed in your country recently you really have nothing to worry about unless you're the one selling or you get caught with counterfeit gear (anything underground).


----------



## John Doe

miami797 said:


> It wasn't just the US involved in that. The US side of the Operation just got the most notice.
> 
> No one would be saying anything that the feds wouldn't already get from US based open source forums. People are mostly going to be giving opinions on gear, not giving out information on where to buy it or where it's being made. That's what mods are for and it's also why you'll probably need a minimum post count to have access.
> 
> The feds are pretty much worried about US manufacturers and suppliers. That and raw material sources. I understand that our countries work hand in hand with things like this, but I still wouldn't be too worried about the feds if you're over in the UK. You have your own government to worry about, besides yours doesn't care as much about AAS as ours.
> 
> Unless the laws have changed in your country recently you really have nothing to worry about unless you're the one selling or you get caught with counterfeit gear (anything underground).


I should have mentioned that I'm an American.


----------



## miami797

I see. I would worry more about the open source forums than this place. Patriot Act is a serious thing, and almost anything to do with steroids can be considered a terrorist act according to the patriot act.

How are steroids a terrorist act? The feds are saying that the money made from illegal drug sales winds up funding terrorism. Remember those silly commercials about how if you smoke pot you're funding things like 9/11? That doesn't just pertain to pot in the government's eyes. Also, counterfeiting patented products leads to the demise of the nations infrastructure. Besides any of that, any misdemeanor can be considered a terrorist act now.

It's not like people are getting busted on terror charges everyday, but they are using the patriot act against us normal criminals, not just terrorists.

Most people say "who cares, this doesn't effect me. I'm no terrorist." Well, according to the patriot act you probably are, especially if you're on this forum.

Here is how stupid it can get: http://www.schwimmerlegal.com/2004/10/homeland_securi.html

I wouldn't worry about going to jail for selling fake cubes, but consider the constitutional violations since they no longer need warrants to do anything because it falls under the patriot act. If the FBI needs a warrant to search and bug your home, these days they now get it from "secret" court. Sounds crazy? Read the patriot act.

http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/215.html

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ee9bcb5402a56ec0d22a994e125c275d

About section 501 of patriot act 2. This is where they can put you to death: http://www.infowars.com/print/patriot_act/alexs_analysis.htm

I know this is off topic, but what the hell.


----------



## John Doe

miami797 said:


> I see. I would worry more about the open source forums than this place. Patriot Act is a serious thing, and almost anything to do with steroids can be considered a terrorist act according to the patriot act.
> 
> How are steroids a terrorist act? The feds are saying that the money made from illegal drug sales winds up funding terrorism. Remember those silly commercials about how if you smoke pot you're funding things like 9/11? That doesn't just pertain to pot in the government's eyes. Also, counterfeiting patented products leads to the demise of the nations infrastructure. Besides any of that, any misdemeanor can be considered a terrorist act now.
> 
> It's not like people are getting busted on terror charges everyday, but they are using the patriot act against us normal criminals, not just terrorists.
> 
> Most people say "who cares, this doesn't effect me. I'm no terrorist." Well, according to the patriot act you probably are, especially if you're on this forum.
> 
> Here is how stupid it can get: http://www.schwimmerlegal.com/2004/10/homeland_securi.html
> 
> I wouldn't worry about going to jail for selling fake cubes, but consider the constitutional violations since they no longer need warrants to do anything because it falls under the patriot act. If the FBI needs a warrant to search and bug your home, these days they now get it from "secret" court. Sounds crazy? Read the patriot act.
> 
> http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/215.html
> 
> http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ee9bcb5402a56ec0d22a994e125c275d
> 
> About section 501 of patriot act 2. This is where they can put you to death: http://www.infowars.com/print/patriot_act/alexs_analysis.htm
> 
> I know this is off topic, but what the hell.


I'm fully aware of the Patriot Act and all its implications. Scary stuff. Any crime can be construed as an act of terror really. Total control of the population. It's the first big step. The Constitution is slowing being chipped away. Soon, if things don't change, we'll have no rights. America is becoming unrecognizable. But then again, as I'm fond of saying, power does what it wants. They have it, and we don't.


----------



## Robsta

fcuk living over there......you keep mickey mouse. We're ok over here with our dbol.....


----------



## John Doe

Robsta said:


> fcuk living over there......you keep mickey mouse. We're ok over here with our dbol.....


Actually, the NWO is big over there as well. But I suppose that's a subject for a different forum.


----------



## Robsta

NWO, I thought Dr Dre went solo......


----------



## John Doe

Robsta said:


> NWO, I thought Dr Dre went solo......


LOL


----------



## miami797

Robsta said:


> NWO, I thought Dr Dre went solo......


That was NWA, not NWO.


----------



## Robsta

miami797 said:


> That was NWA, not NWO.


Really, I had no idea.....  ...lol


----------



## jjb1

i think it will become problematic as people have there favourites for 1 reason or another.....


----------



## Tinytom

Everyones an adult here so they know when they are crossing the line.

And when they do they will be banned just like all the idiots in the past that have tried to scam and deceive people.


----------



## miami797

Robsta said:


> Really, I had no idea.....  ...lol


You never know with you Saxon f*cks.


----------



## Robsta

lol...I'll have you know, the most common English name is now Singh.....No saxon in that mate...


----------



## Ellis

some people are always going to have a slight biased, this is also seen with boards some boards favouring different labs and slating others.

if its brought back i agree it will have to be moderated properly, if there is a warning set out against people being overly biased and therefore either them continuously pushing or slating a lab then they will know this and if this happens warn and then ban the offending members.


----------



## Trenzyme

i think lab discusion is good, ive used a lab whos products made me ill!!

and im not the only one


----------



## miami797

Can't believe someone gave me neg reps for having a laugh on the Saxon's behalf. If you're going to give someone neg reps and call them a cock at least be man about it and leave a name.


----------



## TaintedSoul

miami797 said:


> Can't believe someone gave me neg reps for having a laugh on the Saxon's behalf. If you're going to give someone neg reps and call them a cock at least be man about it and leave a name.


Reps without name attached could be another sugestion!! p!sses me off when people do that. It's like having an opinion and not willing to back it up!


----------



## Mars

Good idea ummm, this could bring the board problems as i'm sure your all aware, so it would have to be monitered very closely, posing more problems.

The only point i see to lab discussions is to find out weather it's a good lab or a bad lab, well depending on peoples experiences this could also pose more problems.

So i'm voting no.

However it might be an idea to build a data base of unbiased opinions of all the most popular UG labs and post it as closed sticky, this can then be used by ppl as a reference guide, if it's a full but concise data base then i can't forsee any problems.

If someone wished to add a lab it could then go to a vote by the mods depending on the validty of the data presented.

This may take some time to set up, but not that long i feel.


----------



## trickymicky69

I think its a great idea. Remebering when I started out and spent £300 on some changchung chinaman homebrew ****e that was absolute tosh fills me with dread when I think someone else may do it.

Fair enough some peeps may be biased but if most of the knowledgeable guys on here say a products good then thats fine with me.

Just like if a member with one post comes on and says his new gear is great I would err on the side of caution.

Sensibilty is the buzzword.


----------



## Lorian

Lab discussion is now permitted so this thread is being closed.

Thanks for voting!

L


----------

