# Test E + Winstrol (oral) cycle



## flecks (Dec 1, 2011)

Im wondering weather or not to add winstrol into a cycle im planning at the moment. Im planning doing 500mg Test then adding maybe 20-30 mg of Winny for the last 3 to 4 weeks.

I dont hear of many people doing this cycle but I wouldnt mind the benefits winny has on strength gains.

Only down sides I can read of Is that winstrol is mg for mg the most liver toxic steroid AVAILABLE so that puts me off a little so will have my milk thistle ready at high doses if I decide to run it.

If your wondering why not just use Dbol well its simply a hairloss issue that scares me a bit, as you know winny does not convert to DHT/oestrogen.

Appreciate your comments

FLECKS

P.S THANKS FOR WHOEVER GAVE ME MY FIRS LIKE AM BUZZIN NOW MATE HAHA LOL NOTICE (1 TIMES)


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Winstrol is renowned for hairloss if you're prone..


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## flecks (Dec 1, 2011)

is it....

oh well. what about this nifty cycle...

1-10 Test E 500mg EW

8-12 Anavar 50mg ED up until 3 days before first Nolvadex dose

12-14 Nolvadex 40 mg/day

15-16 Nolvadex 20 mg/day


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Why not run the Test for 12 weeks? Bare in mind it's a long acting ester so you often won't see the real benefit of the Enanthate for ~4 weeks, so once you do start seeing it, you'll probably find 10 isn't as long as you'd like. Var is also a DHT derivative so I believe it can cause hairloss too, although I don't think it's nearly as bad as Winstrol, someone else will have to comment on that. For PCT, you only need to run Nolvadex at 20mg a day, running it at 40mg will have no real benefit. Consider clomid for PCT too.. Are you going to used Clomid or HCG on cycle to reduce/prevent testicular atrophy? Will help with your recovery post cycle. You could also consider scrapping the Var and frontloading the test, however some people rate this method, other's don't.

Something like:

Clomid 100/100/50/50

Nolva 20/20/20/20

If you're looking to bulk, dbol will be the cheapest and most effective option, as far as I'm aware it's not known particuarly to cause hairloss either as it's not a DHT derivative? However it does aromotize heavily, so you'll want an AI on hand (or should anyway tbh with test alone) incase any gyno arises.


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## flecks (Dec 1, 2011)

Thanks for the input mate, like you say alot of compounds cover the hairloss category to some degree, some more than others. I think its safe to say I wont be using Winny any time soon however Var might be a good option especially for its less sides.

Can I ask why you recomend CLomid as well as nolva for your proposed cycle? (never took it before) I over staked the nolva to say 40/20/20/20 to compensate for the lack of clomid. Just a bit concerned by the prospects of blurred vision while using it. Would you say It is important to use clomid?

As for HCG Im keeping that one for a heavyier cycle if and when I decide to run one in the future, look forward to your comments

FLECKS


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Nolva has a diminishing effect after 40mg, hence you may aswell just throw it down the toilet. Clomid prevents the shutdown of LH production by inhibiting Oestrogen binding to receptors on the pituary gland. LH is what stimulates the leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone.. So essentially clomid will encourage your nuts to start producing more natural test. Aus reccomends a protocol of running 50mg Clomid whilst on and also using it during PCT, as this is supposed to prevent the testes shrinking in the first place.. A good protocol and makes sense, never tried it myself and I know few have, but it depends if you're comfortable taking Clomid for that long (i.e. due to risk of blurred vision etc.)

I'd use HCG anyway, even if it's not a "heavy" cycle, as you will be shut down from it and your nuts will shrink, and HCG will help minimze/preven this. If you want kids later in life, it's a wise idea to stay on the safe side of things! Isn't too expensive either.


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## flecks (Dec 1, 2011)

SonOfZeus said:


> Nolva has a diminishing effect after 40mg, hence you may aswell just throw it down the toilet. Clomid prevents the shutdown of LH production by inhibiting Oestrogen binding to receptors on the pituary gland. LH is what stimulates the leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone.. So essentially clomid will encourage your nuts to start producing more natural test. Aus reccomends a protocol of running 50mg Clomid whilst on and also using it during PCT, as this is supposed to prevent the testes shrinking in the first place.. A good protocol and makes sense, never tried it myself and I know few have, but it depends if you're comfortable taking Clomid for that long (i.e. due to risk of blurred vision etc.)
> 
> I'd use HCG anyway, even if it's not a "heavy" cycle, as you will be shut down from it and your nuts will shrink, and HCG will help minimze/preven this. If you want kids later in life, it's a wise idea to stay on the safe side of things! Isn't too expensive either.


Really................Wow great post mate I appreciate the advice. will invest in HCG possbly run it at 500ius/week from if/when boys dissipate. At Very least have it on hand if i see noticable shrinkage.


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## Machette (Oct 29, 2011)

Hahaha 1 pic of a girl and da hungry brothers in here go crazy lollll


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## darksider (Apr 5, 2011)

As said above d-bol if your looking to bulk imo will be the best option if your prone to hairloss winstrol will aggravate this more than d-bol will.

Winni is a good med but like EB says 75mgs minimum better still 100mgs for 6 weeks at least.


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## Machette (Oct 29, 2011)

Empire Boy said:


> she looks like she'd be up for it :thumb:


Hahaha 1 pic of a girl and da hungry brothers in here go crazy lollll


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## flecks (Dec 1, 2011)

il probably go with anavar for the last 4 weeks.


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Empire, I think you're wrong about Var not being less toxic, Mars posted up various studies last week explaining how it was indeed less hepatoxic.. Something do with the fact that 25% of it passed straight through the liver, can't really remember. Worth reading though mate, it's interesting!


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> I had a huge debate with Aus, looked at quite a few studies on 17-aa oral AAS, and at the end, Aus was right, I was wrong, just as you're wrong. Winstrol is not more 'liver toxic' than anavar. If it is, then find the study. They don't exist. I tried. I really did. The only thing that might be an issue with winstrol is that it affect TBG and T3RU, so its not the 'best' on T3. But by all means, prove Aus wrong, I tried, and failed miserably. Fact of the matter is a 17-aa oral AAS does the same amount of damage to the first and second detoxification pathways of the liver. No less. No more. And nothing has proved this otherwise.


I see, I remember mars was comparing it vs oxy's not Winny but I presume the same applies with what you're saying?


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Okay fair enough, I haven't got time to try and find what I thought was posted but I must have been wrong, if Mars see's the thread it'd be good if he could chip in again though!


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## SonOfZeus (Feb 15, 2009)

Fair play, never stop learning from this board!! :thumb:


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