# To T3 or not to T3?



## Metzer (Jun 20, 2011)

My planned cutting cycle is as follows : (roughly)

Anavar + Albuterol

The key question is, should I add in T3 as well?

Reason I ask is because im fairly lean at the moment (bf at approx 12/13%) with the only fat I need to lose around my stomach area

Now obviously we can't spot reduce fat - but T3 will reduce weight by eating away at muscle / fat /whatever it finds! (excuse my interpretation lol)

Obviously diet will still be the key, and along with Var muscle wastage shouldnt be much, but I'm still concerned with taking T3 and messing around with the Thyroid and losing a lot of weight is something I dont really want to do!

I guess what i'm asking is, will Var + Albuterol be a decent cutting stack without T3?

Cheers


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

from what i know, which is not much, ive always steered clear of t3 and have been told by a couple others..... though it is good at fat loss the potential sides may not be worth it..... i mean if your thyroid fks up u could balloon within days


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

andy gibbs said:


> from what i know, which is not much, ive always steered clear of t3 and have been told by a couple others..... though it is good at fat loss the potential sides may not be worth it..... i mean if your thyroid fks up u could balloon within days


Spoken like a true physician. 

I'd t3 but that's cos I dunny give a fvck anyway!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

everyone jumps on the T3 is catabolic bandwagon... but:

"...Bodybuilder for the most part resorted to thyroid. Thyroid is possibly the most miss-understood drug by athletes. It is highly anabolic in it's own right. This drug controls you metabolism the rate at which those sub cellular mitochondria work. The work pace of our cellular factories. Increase thyroid means increase protein synthesis."

from: http://www.bio-freak.com/members/category/paul-borresen-archive/ (the "get big at all costs stack")

YOu may have hear of Paul, but he knew all the big guys, Yates, Cohen etc... he wasn't always right... but t3 is not automatically catabolic.. if your protein intake is high enough; and if you take AAS, they prevent any muscle being used in metabolism... you won't lose any muscle..

For fat loss T3 will do more for you than albuterol.. don't know why people bother with it....

as for anavar, fine for retaining muscle, but just be aware its nothing special for fat loss- 1g+ of testosterone would do more for metabolism anyway.

Its not what AAS you use for fat loss, its jsut you take it to prevent muscle loss when you reduce cals and increase training... its diet and training the strip fat.. AAS retain muscle, T3 will increase metabolism (and protein synthesis with AAS) and if you add an eca stack or clenbuterol you may get a slightly enhanced fat loss rate (3-5%). Be aware you need 100mcg + of T3 to noticeably increase metabolism- search on here for T3 and temperature- to see how judge when you are using enough t3..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

andy gibbs said:


> from what i know, which is not much, ive always steered clear of t3 and have been told by a couple others..... though it is good at fat loss the potential sides may not be worth it..... i mean if your thyroid fks up u could balloon within days


your thyroid will not f**k up... it may get suppressed,but rebounds in 2-8weeks in full.

The idea is not to get to that point.

1. take your morning temp (in ear thermometer) before leaving bed 5 mornings in a row..

2. start your t3 use, 100mcg/day

3. keep measuring your temp.

4. after 5 days if your temp is not 0.3-0.6 higher, take another 25mcg, if not higher in another 5 days, take another 25mcg. Most shouldn't need more than 150mcg total.

5. keep measuring your temp.

6. when your temp drops 0.6deg 3xmornings in a row- is the temp lower than when you started? if not you have jsut started to down regulate your own production, stop and you will have no rebound; if its lower than when you started, you will have a little rebound, unless you keep your diet tight- keep measuring, and when your temp goes back to your baseline, your thyroid has recovered full function.

I tend to run 2days on 2days of, and have not had a temp drop in over 6months... if you run daily, you will lose fat faster, but may get a temp drop and some rebound. your choice.

the temp approach was originaly developed by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broda_Otto_Barnes

and refined for BBs by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Duchaine

in his book BodyOpus.


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## exalta (Jul 23, 2009)

Hey @ausbuilt, what do you think of T3's danger regarding the heart? That's the only thing that puts me off using it really tbh....


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

exalta said:


> Hey @ausbuilt, what do you think of T3's danger regarding the heart? That's the only thing that puts me off using it really tbh....


1. do you have a heart condition?

2. do you use stims? (jack3d? clen? Ephedrine/ECA etc)

If you have no heart condition, no issue; safer than stims. If you have a condition, do you use stims? T3 has less of an effect on the heart than stims- however if you run it and start getting heart palpitations etc, stop. T3 has a 2.5 day half life, so try running 2days on, 2days off.. and see if you're fine; if no palpitations or racing pulse keep going..

I do have a higher resting HR when on T3 not doubt, but its not crazy (about 85-87bpm, whereas when off, its about 70).


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> your thyroid will not f**k up... it may get suppressed,but rebounds in 2-8weeks in full.
> 
> The idea is not to get to that point.
> 
> ...


Great info there as always but i do still have concerns for T3, i do know that it can be ran safely but i once ended up in A&E and for that reason i'm cautious. Basically i took 100mcg before bed just after doing 1hr cardio. My heart would not rest and every 10 seconds or so BoOoOoOM. Went in to the hospital at 7am and was rushed for tests, as soon as i took my top off they asked me if i use AAS and i was honest and said yes. After hours of tests my heart showed perfectly healthy and they could not figure it out. Right at the end the Dr asked if i was using any Stims? I said yes T3 and he explained that it was likely that i'd had a whats called thyroid storm. After this he was explaining to me that i need to stop T3 right away as it's one of the worst meds to use and said that T3 / Clen and all the rest are the biggest reason why loads of athletes are getting heart damage when 20 years ago it was quite rare. So for me, i'm not worried about high temp or thyroid shut down, i'm simply worried about permenantly damaging my heart valves or enlarging my heart. I even have Pharma Grade T3 and Clen here from a while ago, but i'm just hesitant to use it. I don't really like clen but i'd love to run some T3 but i do worry about it's long term effects tbh


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Raptor said:


> Great info there as always but i do still have concerns for T3, i do know that it can be ran safely but i once ended up in A&E and for that reason i'm cautious. Basically i took 100mcg before bed just after doing 1hr cardio. My heart would not rest and every 10 seconds or so BoOoOoOM. Went in to the hospital at 7am and was rushed for tests, as soon as i took my top off they asked me if i use AAS and i was honest and said yes. After hours of tests my heart showed perfectly healthy and they could not figure it out. Right at the end the Dr asked if i was using any Stims? I said yes T3 and he explained that it was likely that i'd had a whats called thyroid storm. After this he was explaining to me that i need to stop T3 right away as it's one of the worst meds to use and said that T3 / Clen and all the rest are the biggest reason why loads of athletes are getting heart damage when 20 years ago it was quite rare. So for me, i'm not worried about high temp or thyroid shut down, i'm simply worried about permenantly damaging my heart valves or enlarging my heart. I even have Pharma Grade T3 and Clen here from a while ago, but i'm just hesitant to use it. I don't really like clen but i'd love to run some T3 but i do worry about it's long term effects tbh


hmmm.. think you're A&E guy was a tool...

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/4/355

thats a RECENT 2011, study where they used up to 720mcg of clen!!! to help heart patients with valve failure to not need a transplant or an assist device...

do more searches on it..

in fact heart-valve failure was caused by commonly prescribed diet drugs (appetite suppressants) that have since been withdrawn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine

that was the late 90s. More recently (last year) sibutramine was also withdrawn from the market for increasing risk of heart attack and stroke:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibutramine

and was not even a stimulant..

at any rate, the Dr in A&E was doing he usual scare mongering to a young man on AAS..

before taking t3, and in fact AAS, i've always said MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE (HR, BP, BG, all easy things to check) and with t3.. add temp measurement..


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> hmmm.. think you're A&E guy was a tool...
> 
> http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/4/355
> 
> ...


Yeah i may just add it to my new year cycle and do all the tests :thumbup1:


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## Metzer (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks for the info's, although im still unsure whether to take it or not! I dont want to lose much weight, merely to burn fat and retain / gain a little muscle..im thinking T3 may end up losing a good few kgs or fat and muscle


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

If blasting and cruising with AAS, is it possible to run T3 and Clen safely through a cruise period

in an attempt to lose a little stubborn fat and lean up.

I myself am fairly lean but you always want more lol. I'll be cruising on 250Mg of Sustanon in a few

weeks time for 12 weeks and was considoring throwing in Clen and T3 at reasonable doses just to

see whether I can lean up further.

Not really sure how to go about this though.

I thought the 250Mg of Sustanon as well as my usual high protein diet should prevent muscle catabolism

so thought adding in Clen and T3 may be a viable option.

@ausbuilt

Would you recommend this mate and if so, how would you personally go about it?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Metzer said:


> im thinking T3 may end up losing a good few kgs or fat and muscle


shame, means i've not explained things well enough... as you still misunderstand how it works.. will re-read tomorrow and try make it clearer..



Contest said:


> If blasting and cruising with AAS, is it possible to run T3 and Clen safely through a cruise period
> 
> in an attempt to lose a little stubborn fat and lean up.
> 
> ...


yes, high protein diet and AAS is essential , so blast/cruise is great. I do 500g of protein/day and think under 400g is counterproductive, regardless of T3 use or not..

you can ditch the clen if you want, its not there because of anti-catabolism like many thing (its used for its action on adrenoreceptors to increase fat loss). I've been running t3+t4+clen 2days on 2days off for the past 8 months now.. to increase protein synthesis AND aid fat loss..

the primary thing, run it for as long as you don't record a drop in body temp; the reason i've been running it so long- i said to myself i will run it until my own thyroid reduced production/started shutting down.. well still hasn't happened..


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks for the info aus


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> shame, means i've not explained things well enough... as you still misunderstand how it works.. will re-read tomorrow and try make it clearer..
> 
> yes, high protein diet and AAS is essential , so blast/cruise is great. I do 500g of protein/day and think under 400g is counterproductive, regardless of T3 use or not..
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the useful advice Ausbuilt.

What do you think about the following during my cruise period then:

- 250mg of Sustanon per week for 12 weeks

- T3 for 12 weeks at 50mcg (No tapering up, no tapering down)

- Clen for 12 weeks at 100mcg but will be doing 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

I'm trying to keep my cruise and dosages of T3 + Clen safe, simple but yet still effective.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> Thanks for all the useful advice Ausbuilt.
> 
> What do you think about the following during my cruise period then:
> 
> ...


run the t3 at 50mcg. if your body temp doesnt increase, its not having an effect on you, and you need more, as I've posted above.. if you go 5 days without an increase, take more... go another 5 days.. etc


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## Metzer (Jun 20, 2011)

Was talking to a mate who's a pharmacist, he was like chances are you will be fine taking it but short term - but in the unlikely event that it does **** up your thyroid, that will be irreversible (some people haave had surgery to remove it etc),


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> run the t3 at 50mcg. if your body temp doesnt increase, its not having an effect on you, and you need more, as I've posted above.. if you go 5 days without an increase, take more... go another 5 days.. etc


Thanks for the input Ausbuilt.

You think the clen dosage of 100mcg ED is sufficient enough as well? Just to recap the Clen will be use 2 weeks on and then 2 weeks off and then repeated.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Metzer said:


> Was talking to a mate who's a pharmacist, he was like chances are you will be fine taking it but short term - but in the unlikely event that it does **** up your thyroid, that will be irreversible (some people haave had surgery to remove it etc),


funny thing.. my wife (in the pic) is a pharmacist.. and I have a BSc in Chemistry.. so we know our way around some scientific journals.

You tell your pharmacist mate to provide a journal article to support his statment, and I'll eat it... yes, it would be an unlikely event.. and there is no evidence that taking T3 or T4 will permanently disable your own production; there are plenty of people who need either their thyroid or para-thyroid surgically removed (as an example hashimotos) who have never touched any medication...



Contest said:


> Thanks for the input Ausbuilt.
> 
> You think the clen dosage of 100mcg ED is sufficient enough as well? Just to recap the Clen will be use 2 weeks on and then 2 weeks off and then repeated.


 I would say, try it.. but truth is 120-160 is more usual... hell my wife does 200 (i cramp up to much)

check this out: medical studies giving patients 720mcg!!!!! of clenbuterol, and finding no adverse reactions (heart wise):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16962470

and in fact found an increase in skeletal muscle mass!!!


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> funny thing.. my wife (in the pic) is a pharmacist.. and I have a BSc in Chemistry.. so we know our way around some scientific journals.
> 
> You tell your pharmacist mate to provide a journal article to support his statment, and I'll eat it... yes, it would be an unlikely event.. and there is no evidence that taking T3 or T4 will permanently disable your own production; there are plenty of people who need either their thyroid or para-thyroid surgically removed (as an example hashimotos) who have never touched any medication...
> 
> ...


There seems to be nothing you don't know about T3 or Clen Ausbuilt lmao.

The only think I'm a little worried about is losing lean muscle mass. I've just currently cut

down from 102.5kg to 86kg and I feel I'm in the best shape of my life. I'm much tighter, stronger

and thanks to gear, actually look much bigger.

Losing any muscle mass from this point would be heart breaking for me lol.

You on the other hand seem to use it all the time but still look f*cking massive in your pic

which then makes me think otherwise lol.

Though you may not of experienced any muscle loss whilst using T3 and Clen, have you

ever felt a dip in strength?

I'm hoping the 250mg of Sustanon through my cruise with the added high protein diet will

be the saviour of muscle lol.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> There seems to be nothing you don't know about T3 or Clen Ausbuilt lmao.
> 
> The only think I'm a little worried about is losing lean muscle mass. I've just currently cut
> 
> ...


I research, then I try out the theory on myself... I read in medical journals- T3 is not catabolic it just increases the protein turnover rate (as in muscle breakdown into aminos, and then new aminos being used to syntesise new protein- i.e muscle); however if you have raised cortisol or restricted cals, this swings the balance from neutral to catabolic.. (by the way trainin with cardio or weights as a natty, for over 30mins increases cortisol); however AAS or Insulin make T3 anabolic.. and makes muscle building faster..

apart form the scientific papers, well known BBs/trainers, like Paul Borreson said the same thing about T3 (its anabolic with AAS and 'slin):

http://www.bio-freak.com/members/2011/09/the-get-big-at-all-costs-stack-by-paul-borresen/

I'm always (well last 8months now i guess) on an injectable base; my "cycle" is a month on/month off using 150mg/day oxys... i'm noticeably stronger on the oxys.. noticeable dip in strength when not... but I train for muscle size and look, not strength.. and i know it comes in waves so to speak...

250mg test and high protein will keep T3 anabolic...it will increase metabolism so burn some extra cals too, so helps keep you lean... you won't lose an muscle as long as you do the test..


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Another very informative article there Ausbuilt but there's a bit in that article that I'm not completely getting my head around.

*This means that thyroid supplementation had to be substitution and not addictive. What we meant by this is that you can not increase your natural production slightly your must totally replace it and increase from there. This has big downsides. When you stop the thyroid it take 8 weeks for you body to re-adjust and get itself straight.*

*
*

*
I have seen a few bodybuilder who blow up like balloons after they compete.*

Is Borreson saying that when coming off T3, it is inevitable that an individual will start to pack on weight again?


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

T3 has not really come up in national papers or any real media in terms of significant death, in fact neither has T4 or T5. I am sure it would be jumped upon, if this was a fatality concern.

It was banned in the states not from facts but from politics and stupid people. Do these people know how dangerous Advil and Asprin are?

In the UK there was so much money put aside to deal with the so called Ecstasy problem. It became aparent that people were not dieing like people believed. Don't get me wrong I am sure it does you no good.

The lines have to be read between, make your own decision, just don't be used as free advertising


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> Anoter very informative article there Ausbuilt but there's a bit in that article that I'm not completely getting my head around.
> 
> *This means that thyroid supplementation had to be substitution and not addictive. What we meant by this is that you can not increase your natural production slightly your must totally replace it and increase from there. This has big downsides. When you stop the thyroid it take 8 weeks for you body to re-adjust and get itself straight.*
> 
> ...


YES... and HE'S RIGHT.... the reason is, if you read most forums (even here) most people assume you just take "X" dose of T3 (i.e pyramid up from 25 to 150mcg over 6 weeks etc) and the reason was a dieting BB was doing it for a show- they would come in ripped on the day, then BLOW UP.. (because their t3 wassuppressed, AND they pigged out post show!!).

The problem was, if you look at this forum as an example, i was the FIRST to talk about measuring body temp to judge dose, and when to stop T3... at first I copped A LOT of flack for this... but I didn't make up the link between T3 production and body temp- that was, as I've posted before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broda_Otto_Barnes

and then dan duchaine talks about in his book BodyOpus, in a chapter on "optimising" metabolism- his point was dont just take T3 to help lose fat on the diet, use T3 to make sure your metabolism is ALWAYS optimal. His book:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UL2OARC8

(free pdf download)

A.L Rea (building the perfect beast) used the 2on/2off approach to minimise suppression- not becuase you acutally had "actual" time off on the 2 days off (T3 has a half life of 2.5days), but because it caused a high level on day 1, and even higher level on day 2 then a decline over the next 2day, before climbing again, this "wave" like dosing was supposed to stop the body adapting and suppressing T3 production.

I've looked at all the info, and combine the best elements fo the theories- Borresen was right- t3 is excellent when bulking, its also good for cutting (Rea), and using it often will keep your metabolism on the high end of optimal (duchaine)- if you measure your temp (barnes and duchaine) you know if you record a temp lower than your orginal baseline, stop and let your own thyroid recover- it won't have stopped, just reduced a little as you stop as soon as you get 3days of 0.6 deg temp drop, and recovery is usually 2-3weeks, and you don't get fat, since it was only marginally suppressed..

short answer: if you measure your temp to judge dose/when to stop.. you won't get fat when you decide/need to stop.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hendrix said:


> T3 has not really come up in national papers or any real media in terms of significant death, in fact neither has T4 or T5. I am sure it would be jumped upon, if this was a fatality concern.
> 
> It was banned in the states not from facts but from politics and stupid people. Do these people know how dangerous Advil and Asprin are?
> 
> ...


agree... look how dangerous paracetamol is:

"...Paracetamol hepatotoxicity is, by far, the most common cause of acute liver failure in both the United States and the United Kingdom.[10][42] Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to poison control centers in the US than overdose of any other pharmacological substance.[43] "

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> YES... and HE'S RIGHT.... the reason is, if you read most forums (even here) most people assume you just take "X" dose of T3 (i.e pyramid up from 25 to 150mcg over 6 weeks etc) and the reason was a dieting BB was doing it for a show- they would come in ripped on the day, then BLOW UP.. (because their t3 wassuppressed, AND they pigged out post show!!).
> 
> The problem was, if you look at this forum as an example, i was the FIRST to talk about measuring body temp to judge dose, and when to stop T3... at first I copped A LOT of flack for this... but I didn't make up the link between T3 production and body temp- that was, as I've posted before:
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the useful information you've given again Ausbuilt. I love how you reference everything as well lol. Should write a journal yourself on the usages of T3 and publish it lol.

I think I'll be doing exactly what you've mentioned during my cruise and use T3 2days on, 2days off, with a reasonable dose of Clen thrown in. Will obviously measure my body temp

to see whether everything is check 

Thanks once again mate for all your help.


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## usernameneeded (Sep 24, 2009)

good info aus


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

fcuk me ausbuilt, you make me feel like a right thick cnut.............lol


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## Harlem (Jan 3, 2011)

brilliant info ausbuilt. Alot to think about now


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## Sureno (Feb 8, 2011)

Forget ask Jeeves its all about asking aus!!!! You just keep on getting better brother, I had questions about T3 and you just answered them, Braun thermometer is arriving tomoz


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

adlewar said:


> fcuk me ausbuilt, you make me feel like a right thick cnut.............lol


LOL.. people are a bit shocked at work that a guy who's always downing shakes and eating his own food (am the ONLY person in the office who brings my owntupperware containers of food, where there is cafeteria in the building and cafes/restaurants nearby) actually presents detailed financial analysis etc.. its like... oh he's not the security guard.. LOL

I actually only got average marks at uni, coz most of the subjects where boring and didnt interest me.. except for chem labs where made stuff, like ephedrine! LOL Like everyone, its easy to spend time looking into stuff that interests you, and I want to know why $hit works...



Contest said:


> Thanks for all the useful information you've given again Ausbuilt. I love how you reference everything as well lol. Should write a journal yourself on the usages of T3 and publish it lol. no one outside UKM would read it! LOL
> 
> I think I'll be doing exactly what you've mentioned during my cruise and use T3 2days on, 2days off, with a reasonable dose of Clen thrown in. Will obviously measure my body temp
> 
> ...


good to hear that you'll measure- I'm not saying T3 has no risk etc, all meds have risks, but used sensibly, its excellent for many reasons. No one wants to do (or can afford) constant blood tests, so the temp measuring approach is something you can easily do, unless you get to lazy!

As for referencing- i'm no rocket scientist, I've not developed new ideas, only adapted the best bits from some well known people; but i do look for some back up for the various statements- maybe the research is not directly related, but I want to see some basis in facts, and postively get pi$$ed of when people say "don't do X becuase a friend of a friend, read on another board that some guys mate died.." I want to see backup when people make statements as why a drug has a certain affect... and i share what i find..



Sureno said:


> Forget ask Jeeves its all about asking aus!!!! You just keep on getting better brother, I had questions about T3 and you just answered them, Braun thermometer is arriving tomoz


Thanks mate. i've said this stuff for awhile, i think people pay more attention since i've made such a good improvement in 6months.. LOL


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## BodyBuilding101 (Mar 8, 2006)

Aus, see when measuring the morning temp, does it have to be immediately when you wake up? Like should i keep that in ear thermometer on my bedside table immediate or can i do it within 5 minutes of getting up?

Also at what doses does T3 cause cramping? Just that I've been having cramps in my legs etc and i have been on a low dose of T3 as 25mcg and my water intake has been good.

thanks

Mo


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Just wondering what sort of temp changes are we looking for?

My base temp for. 4 days in ear and under tongue were 36.4-36.6 now I done t3 2days 50mg 2days 75mg not really gone up its just stayed around baseline amount today being 36.4 yest 36.7 day before .6


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## smaj210 (Aug 1, 2009)

bump for later reference


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Bump for aus


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

OJay said:


> Just wondering what sort of temp changes are we looking for?
> 
> My base temp for. 4 days in ear and under tongue were 36.4-36.6 now I done t3 2days 50mg 2days 75mg not really gone up its just stayed around baseline amount today being 36.4 yest 36.7 day before .6


Sorry for the stupid question but what do you measure it with? can you link me to the product? because my thermometer isn't accurute.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Pass on link it was from pharmacy


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BodyBuilding101 said:


> Aus, see when measuring the morning temp, does it have to be immediately when you wake up? Like should i keep that in ear thermometer on my bedside table immediate or can i do it within 5 minutes of getting up?
> 
> Also at what doses does T3 cause cramping? Just that I've been having cramps in my legs etc and i have been on a low dose of T3 as 25mcg and my water intake has been good.
> 
> ...


hi mate, t3 doesnt cause cramping, clen does.

yes, you need to measure before you get up and about. As i said, measure when you awake, before you rise..



OJay said:


> Just wondering what sort of temp changes are we looking for?
> 
> My base temp for. 4 days in ear and under tongue were 36.4-36.6 now I done t3 2days 50mg 2days 75mg not really gone up its just stayed around baseline amount today being 36.4 yest 36.7 day before .6


forget about undertongue. not even close to accurate. In ear only.

look you need at least 3 days, 5 days better, without anything. You take your meds and keep measuring, you are looking or 0.3-0.6 INCREASE 3 DAYS in a ROW...

it doesnt go up fast... it usually takes a few weeks.. and as I've said many times, less than 100-150mcg.... you may not notice a diff for months..



Depressed said:


> Sorry for the stupid question but what do you measure it with? can you link me to the product? because my thermometer isn't accurute.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Braun-ThermoScan-IRT4520-Ear-Thermometer/dp/B0001D0LMS

the most accurate.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> hi mate, t3 doesnt cause cramping, clen does.
> 
> yes, you need to measure before you get up and about. As i said, measure when you awake, before you rise..
> 
> ...


Once the increase three days in a row do you just continue at that dose until temp stops increase or drops or lower it there and then?

Just getting all the research in really appreciate it aus


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## Harlem (Jan 3, 2011)

Hmmmm good question OJay.... id also like to know.


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

If thyroid recovery is of concern then you should be OK.

Small study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/808728 (women but you get he idea of recovery times from it)


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

I saw that thread was real helpful


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> before taking t3, and in fact AAS, i've always said MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE (*HR*, *BP*, *BG*, all easy things to check) and with t3.. add temp measurement..


What products do you or anyone else recommend to measure all 3?


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Fat said:


> What products do you or anyone else recommend to measure all 3?


to measure HR, just stick 2 fingers (not your thumb) on your radial pulse or 1 carotid artery, and measure how many beats there are in 15 seconds and then multiply by 4 for beat per minute

BP: get a cuff and stethoscope. more accurate than the machines

BM: you need a BM machine. you can get these from the pharmacy


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Are the BM machines actually accurate? and for HR/BP is this good? (ausbuilt recommended it  ) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-R3-Wrist-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B000VD6UOG


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Fat said:


> Are the BM machines actually accurate? and for HR/BP is this good? (ausbuilt recommended it  ) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-Wrist-Blood-Pressure-Monitor/dp/B004S1ZCX2/


from my understanding, the BM machines are +/- 1. So pretty accurate yea. Not as accurate as having your glucose measured in a hospital lab though

for a BP cuff, the british hypertension society has a list of validated BP monitors. I would look into these since a lot of the BP monitors out there are garbage

http://www.bhsoc.org/blood_pressure_list.stm

and dont get a wrist one


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

m118 said:


> from my understanding, the BM machines are +/- 1. So pretty accurate yea. Not as accurate as having your glucose measured in a hospital lab though
> 
> for a BP cuff, the british hypertension society has a list of validated BP monitors. I would look into these since a lot of the BP monitors out there are garbage
> 
> ...


unless you get the right size cuff (i had to get a larger size) the cuff ones will misread most BBs... so wrist is more accurate in that case- many just try to use a standard cuff on a big arm, it can be made to fit (jsut) but the reading is way out..

aprart from that you"re right- good list/link!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

OJay said:


> Once the increase three days in a row do you just continue at that dose until temp stops increase or drops or lower it there and then?
> 
> Just getting all the research in really appreciate it aus


if you get the temp increase.. the dose is working... so you dont need more right? only increase the dose if you dont get an increase in temp in a week.

yep been busy at work..


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

So at this point no matter what 2days on 2 off or wait until temp increase ceases? sorry to ask all the questions you really seem to have the most knowledge on the subject


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

Aus, can you preserve muscle without the use of AAS?


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Just ordered a thermometer the Braun one so can make sure everything is accurate reading wise


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Depressed said:


> Aus, can you preserve muscle without the use of AAS?


not directly related to T3- not if you're dieting, as dieting is inherently catabolic, and t3 amplifies this; however taking t3 when bulking (not to keep lean- to increase protein synthesis) does preserve and indeed help build muscle...

its not the drug... its how you use it..

if you're dieting, t3 or not, without AAS, you will lose muscle first.- thats normal dieting metabolism...


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Just for those interested in thyroid recovery.

Was using t3 at 25 mcg for 11 months off season and prep.

HAd a few weeks at 50 mcg.

Stoped n 3 weeks later got bloods done and tsh was 1.05 so seems I recoverd no problems.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

I guess everything Is individual to the person though one person may recover that quick another may get hit harder, did you take temp?

What were your bloods looking like with regards to recovery from the other parts of your cycle?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

OJay said:


> I guess everything Is individual to the person though one person may recover that quick another may get hit harder, did you take temp?
> 
> What were your bloods looking like with regards to recovery from the other parts of your cycle?


No dnt bother with temp.

Doc said there wasn't a reading out of line. Been on 12 months now.

Obv didn't get a hormone panel done.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Nice, I can get my thyroid checked if want just need to moan about feeling knackered and say my mums got underactive one herself


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## anacoholic (Apr 27, 2010)

ausbuilt, thanks for the great info.

why do you combine t4 with your t3? and how do you measure t4 dose with it?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

anacoholic said:


> ausbuilt, thanks for the great info.
> 
> why do you combine t4 with your t3? and how do you measure t4 dose with it?


once I hit 150mcg t3, i add double the amount of T4. The reason is I'm trying to keep my t3/t4 levels at a reasonable ratio- not exactly correct, which would be 1:3, but at 1:2 at least, as I don't feel comfortable taking that much more t4..


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

If you were taking another compound to raise body temperature like Clen/DNP how would you know if thyroid is suppressed? I know you said measure but how would you know if low t3 is causing your body temp to go down when other compounds are making it go up? and if thyroid isn't suppressed is it alright just to come off the t3?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Muscle said:


> If you were taking another compound to raise body temperature like Clen/DNP how would you know if thyroid is suppressed? I know you said measure but how would you know if low t3 is causing your body temp to go down when other compounds are making it go up? and if thyroid isn't suppressed is it alright just to come off the t3?


clen barely raises temp. DNP will, but not as much as people think.

if you're going to run DNP,then do base line temp, then do DNP for 1weeks noting temp, then start T3..

you should always just come off t3- tapering doesn't help if suppressed.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> once I hit 150mcg t3, i add double the amount of T4. The reason is I'm trying to keep my t3/t4 levels at a reasonable ratio- not exactly correct, which would be 1:3, but at 1:2 at least, as I don't feel comfortable taking that much more t4..


Got all the thermometer in been measuring all week will start the two days on two off at 100mcg Monday.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Myself and my Mrs started using T3 from Monday but both our temperature readings seem to be coming in a little strange.

A week before using T3, I measured my temp everyday for 7 days and here's what it came in at:

• My lowest temperature: 37.1 oC

• My highest temperature: 37.8 oC

• My average temperature: 37.4 oC

Now whilst using T3, here's my temperature readings...

• Monday: 37.1 oC

• Tuesday: 37.3 oC

• Wednesday: 37.3 oC

• Thursday: 37.3 oC

• Friday: 37.2 oC

• Saturday: 37.4 oC

Does this all look fairly standard as I expected my temperature to jump a fair bit in one week.

Prior to using T3, my highest reading came in at 37.8 ?C as stated above.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

What dose where you using that may help aus make some sense of it sorry I can't be of help


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## Harlem (Jan 3, 2011)

Contest, im glad you posted that up. My base temp seems to vary a fair bit too.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> Myself and my Mrs started using T3 from Monday but both our temperature readings seem to be coming in a little strange.
> 
> A week before using T3, I measured my temp everyday for 7 days and here's what it came in at:
> 
> ...


the thing is, what temp you maintain 3days in a row..

your temp has hardly shifted on average.. so you could take more..

as I said plenty take 25-75mcg/week... reality is if you measure, that dose does sweet FA for most people...

I dont notice anything till about 150-200...

i don't advocate taking a load.. just add 25mcg every week... until you get 0.3deg up...


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I've been using 100mcg using Ausbuilts "2 days on, 2 days off" protocol.

My temperature today came in at 37.4oC which is the same as yesterdays.

I personally thought 100mcg would have been more than enough but obviously

it doesn't seem to be doing much to my temperature LOL. It's the same story

with my Mrs as well. Her temperature doesn't seem to be increasing either even

when using 100mcg.


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## big-lifter (Nov 21, 2011)

im taking chest eze at the moment and also on a sust cycle , im wanting to take t3 aswell , im going to take the t3 2days on 2days off , am i ok to still take the ephadrine on the same days as the t3 ?

thanks


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

just posting so i can find this again. very intersesting stuff


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Interested in hearing some reviews on T3 from those of you that have used it recently. I was considering running 100mcg per day at 2on/2off to help with my upcoming cut, but I'm concious of the fact I'll need a thermometer to see if it's actually working, which is extra cost on top of the meds.

I suppose my question is - is T3 worth the extra outlay, or are there more effective fat loss meds in terms of cost?


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## exalta (Jul 23, 2009)

bayman said:


> Interested in hearing some reviews on T3 from those of you that have used it recently. I was considering running 100mcg per day at 2on/2off to help with my upcoming cut, but I'm concious of the fact I'll need a thermometer to see if it's actually working, which is extra cost on top of the meds.
> 
> I suppose my question is - is T3 worth the extra outlay, or are there more effective fat loss meds in terms of cost?


I wouldn't recommend using it. But then I've never used it. It's just the side effects regarding changing the way the heart functions outweigh any metabolic increase for me.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Do you have more info on the potential effects on the heart?

Anyone else with experience of this?


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## exalta (Jul 23, 2009)

Unfortunately I don't have direct links to the studies but I do have a a couple of quotes from Joshua on the other forum:

"T3 does affect the fibres of the heart. T3 levels outside the normal T3 range cause a shift in the fuel supply that fast twitch fibres of the heart use, and makes the heart less able to handle change in supply of fuel.

"The problem with T3 IMO is that it makes the heart less able to cope with stress, and the changes are quite big. In the lab, T3 is used as a quick way to cause muscle fibres to behave in a different way. Apart from the health risks, T3 causes the thick (glycolytic) fibres to become more like the thinner fibres (oxidative), and although it increases protein synthesis, I suspect that bodybuilders maybe causing changes to their skeletal muscles which are not too desirable either."

If you end up researching it any further and find some studies then it would be great if you post them up.


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

hi aus just wanted to clarify something, wether ur bulking or cutting,you still follow the same protocol, measuring ur temp till it increases then sitting at that does till ur temp starts to decrease then u know its time to come off.

thanks


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

exalta said:


> Unfortunately I don't have direct links to the studies but I do have a a couple of quotes from Joshua on the other forum:
> 
> "T3 does affect the fibres of the heart. T3 levels outside the normal T3 range cause a shift in the fuel supply that fast twitch fibres of the heart use, and makes the heart less able to handle change in supply of fuel.
> 
> ...


Doesn't sound good really. On T3 at the minute and that's got me worried.


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## Big_bear (Apr 1, 2011)

exalta said:


> Unfortunately I don't have direct links to the studies but I do have a a couple of quotes from Joshua on the other forum:
> 
> "T3 does affect the fibres of the heart. T3 levels outside the normal T3 range cause a shift in the fuel supply that fast twitch fibres of the heart use, and makes the heart less able to handle change in supply of fuel.
> 
> ...


Who is Joshua and where did he get this info from? (Not being rude just dont know who this bloke is or where hes got this info from because if its correct its alot of food for thought)


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

exalta said:


> Unfortunately I don't have direct links to the studies but I do have a a couple of quotes from Joshua on the other forum:
> 
> "T3 does affect the fibres of the heart. T3 levels outside the normal T3 range cause a shift in the fuel supply that fast twitch fibres of the heart use, and makes the heart less able to handle change in supply of fuel.
> 
> ...


I'm curious on ausbuilt's response


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

bayman said:


> Interested in hearing some reviews on T3 from those of you that have used it recently. I was considering running 100mcg per day at 2on/2off to help with my upcoming cut, but I'm concious of the fact I'll need a thermometer to see if it's actually working, which is extra cost on top of the meds.
> 
> I suppose my question is - is T3 worth the extra outlay, or are there more effective fat loss meds in terms of cost?


T3 is cheap, and certainly one of the most effective additions you can make.



exalta said:


> I wouldn't recommend using it. But then I've never used it. It's just the side effects regarding changing the way the heart functions outweigh any metabolic increase for me.


so no experience, and no studies... and you make a recommendation.... well i definitely see the logic in that..



curran said:


> hi aus just wanted to clarify something, wether ur bulking or cutting,you still follow the same protocol, measuring ur temp till it increases then sitting at that does till ur temp starts to decrease then u know its time to come off.
> 
> thanks


it doesnt matter whether you cut or bulk- body temp measurement is to assess when your reducing the conversion of your own t4 to t3 owing to he extra t3 you take.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

exalta said:


> Unfortunately I don't have direct links to the studies but I do have a a couple of quotes from Joshua on the other forum:
> 
> "T3 does affect the fibres of the heart. T3 levels outside the normal T3 range cause a shift in the fuel supply that fast twitch fibres of the heart use, and makes the heart less able to handle change in supply of fuel.
> 
> ...


Joshua is pretty clued up- I'm surprised he said the heart has "fast twitch fibres" as its "smooth" muscle which is different to skeletal muscle and is not made of "fast" or "slow" twitch fibres..

At any rate, there is of course the possibility of Cardiotoxicity with T3. By the same token there is the risk of hepatoxicity with Paracetamol- which causes more liver failures than any other drug! See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol

if you read that carefully you will see some RARE individuals will have liver toxicity issues with the RECOMMENDED dose of paracetamol!

What was the point of the above? well, for one thing, all drugs can cause issues. You don't know until you try unfortunately. This is true of all drugs. The second point is, whereas you wont know you have a problem with Paracetamol until things are bad, with T3, there is LOADS of warning:

Have a read about cardiotoxicity/thyrotoxicosis:

http://www.pharmacology2000.com/Thyroid/thyroidobj.htm#Thyrotoxicosis:

You will note especially:

Thyroid Storm:

Fulminating increase in symptoms of thyrotoxicosis

"Medical storm" is now likely to be seen in undertreated patients.

Precipitated by surgery or complicating illness, often sepsis.

Presenting syndrome:

*extreme irritability*

coma or *delirium*

*high fever, 41oC*

*tachycardia*Ausbuilt note- this is a "racing heart rate"

hypotensionie. low blood pressure- you feel dizzy when getting up out of a chair, but of course measured BP is best

vomiting

diarrhea

What's the point of the Above? Well, some of the symptoms you'd be obviously aware of. Principally the racing heart rate.

What is common to all my comments on AAS, 'slin, T3 etc- MEASURE, MEASURE MEASURE.

So when on 'slin, measure BG levels with a glucometer. When on AAS and T3, measure your BP (you also get a HR reading with Omron style digital kits) and when on T3 specifically- MEASURE BODY TEMP.. you will notice the rise in body temp WAY before you hit 41degC.

I don't tell everyone go do T3... take 100, or 200 mcg etc. I say start with a dose, and keep increasing until you notice a rise of 0.6 deg C over your measured base temp. Obviously when it drops, your own production will shut down- obvously if it heads north of 1deg over base, and keeps heading north you are risking thyrotoxicosis, and its effects on the heart.

The point of all my T3 posts is don't attempt to run it unless you measure your temp....

Its not taht T3 is toxic to the Heart, its no more toxic than many drugs we all use daily- if you are a rare sensitive indvidual the dose you reach may not be high at all. But you don't know unless you measure your temp as you take the drug.

However its silly to say T3 is cardio toxic, just as its silly to say paracetamol is hepatotoxic or Alcohol is hepatotoxic... all are OK in certain amounts, to much of any of those (examples, of course there is more) will cause either cardiac or liver issues.


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## carrerarich (Feb 26, 2012)

Damnnnn Ausbuilt, you the man! I like a person who does their research and backs it up instead of providing brochemistry. As with everything in life....abuse it and you will get hurt. Heck so many people worry about using drugs that benefit you but when it comes to narcotics(blow, MDMA,E, Mary Jane) no one gives a shiet.

Ausbuilt. Just wondering if I got this right. I will measure my body temp clean for 3 days in a row. I will start with 25mcg t3 a day and measure my temp for next 5 days. Temp does not increase . Increase t3 to 50mcg for another 5 days and measure temp. If my temp does goes up 0.6, I will stop for two days and go back two days on with the dosage that gave me the 0.6 increase. 2 days on 2 days off measuring temp everyday. If temp goes down increase again for next 5 days and measure and repeat previous steps.

I hope this makes sense. Cheers mate. Keep up the good work and thanks. We appreciate your help.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

carrerarich said:


> Damnnnn Ausbuilt, you the man! I like a person who does their research and backs it up instead of providing brochemistry. As with everything in life....abuse it and you will get hurt. Heck so many people worry about using drugs that benefit you but when it comes to narcotics(blow, MDMA,E, Mary Jane) no one gives a shiet.
> 
> Ausbuilt. Just wondering if I got this right. I will measure my body temp clean for 3 days in a row. I will start with 25mcg t3 a day and measure my temp for next 5 days. Temp does not increase . Increase t3 to 50mcg for another 5 days and measure temp. If my temp does goes up 0.6, I will stop for two days and go back two days on with the dosage that gave me the 0.6 increase. 2 days on 2 days off measuring temp everyday. If temp goes down increase again for next 5 days and measure and repeat previous steps.
> 
> I hope this makes sense. Cheers mate. Keep up the good work and thanks. We appreciate your help.


thanks for the kind words. Yep, my whole aim is to refute broscience with reality....

your approach is infe. But, save some time. No one will get a temp rise from 25mcg. Start at 75mcg.


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## carrerarich (Feb 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> thanks for the kind words. Yep, my whole aim is to refute broscience with reality....
> 
> your approach is infe. But, save some time. No one will get a temp rise from 25mcg. Start at 75mcg.


I always give credit to where it's due.

Wow! Really appreciate the quick feedback. I hate it when it takes forever or even never for someone to reply when they have offered help. Sorry for my stupidness but what's Infe? Ok will start at 75mcg and max out at 150. Also shall I try t3 first to assess myself and then would you rec clen stacked? Or just try clen alone to see how I react and then stack them both? Thanks again.


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## carrerarich (Feb 26, 2012)

@Ausbuilt. Your thoughts?

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/8-6-Week-T3-Dosages-m158640.aspx

Thanks


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## big-lifter (Nov 21, 2011)

where the cheapest place to buy t3 online ?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

carrerarich said:


> @Ausbuilt. Your thoughts?
> 
> http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/8-6-Week-T3-Dosages-m158640.aspx
> 
> Thanks


Don't believe what you read on there! :whistling:


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## carrerarich (Feb 26, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Don't believe what you read on there! :whistling:


Didn't think so


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## ed220 (Mar 7, 2010)

Posting so I can find it.


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

I've just come off t3 and hopefully my thyroid will be back to normal soon. I reduced my calories due to the drop of my metabolism so I don't rebound but how do I know when to increase calories again? Does your metabolism come back slowly day by day or does it come back all at once during 2-4 weeks post t3? Basically what I am asking should I up my calories by day, week or when 4 weeks are up?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Fat said:


> I've just come off t3 and hopefully my thyroid will be back to normal soon. I reduced my calories due to the drop of my metabolism so I don't rebound but how do I know when to increase calories again? Does your metabolism come back slowly day by day or does it come back all at once during 2-4 weeks post t3? Basically what I am asking should I up my calories by day, week or when 4 weeks are up?


You checking your temp?


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> You checking your temp?


Yeah I was and have been doing but unfortunately I can't find my notes now so I don't know my normal temp :cursing:


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Fat said:


> Yeah I was and have been doing but unfortunately I can't find my notes now lol.


Go docs and get your levels checked, or if your temp is around your pre T3 levels then I think you will be ok


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> Go docs and get your levels checked, or if your temp is around your pre T3 levels then I think you will be ok


My doctor refuses to give me tests lol. I think I'm going to increase my calories 100 per week but does anyone know if thyroid comes back all at once (4th week), per week slowly or something?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Fat said:


> I've just come off t3 and hopefully my thyroid will be back to normal soon. I reduced my calories due to the drop of my metabolism so I don't rebound but how do I know when to increase calories again? Does your metabolism come back slowly day by day or does it come back all at once during 2-4 weeks post t3? Basically what I am asking should I up my calories by day, week or when 4 weeks are up?


it builds back up in usually 2-4 weeks, assuming it was suppressed, which it may not have been



Fat said:


> Yeah I was and have been doing but unfortunately I can't find my notes now so I don't know my normal temp :cursing:


this is bull****. Be honest. ANYONE who has measured their temp daily, remembers their baseline and their increased and their recently dropped readings- the sheer number of measurements mean you get to know your numbers.

Since you prob gave up (if you started at all) measuring temp, the only way to tell for sure is to get a test. Google the symptoms of hypothryoid, go to your doc and say you're feeling those symptoms, and he will HAVE to give you a thyroid level test, or you can complain (and tell him/her so) of willful negligence.


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## Sharp161 (Jan 31, 2010)

If running clen and t3 2 days on 2 days off, should i run both for 2 days or t3 for 2 days and then clen for 2 days?


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## Daggaz (Apr 28, 2012)

This stuff should be stickied aus!!


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## RocoElBurn (May 31, 2010)

carrerarich said:


> Damnnnn Ausbuilt, you the man! I like a person who does their research and backs it up instead of providing brochemistry. As with everything in life....abuse it and you will get hurt. Heck so many people worry about using drugs that benefit you but when it comes to narcotics(blow, MDMA,E, Mary Jane) no one gives a shiet.
> 
> Ausbuilt. Just wondering if I got this right. I will measure my body temp clean for 3 days in a row. I will start with 25mcg t3 a day and measure my temp for next 5 days. Temp does not increase . Increase t3 to 50mcg for another 5 days and measure temp. If my temp does goes up 0.6, I will stop for two days and go back two days on with the dosage that gave me the 0.6 increase. 2 days on 2 days off measuring temp everyday. If temp goes down increase again for next 5 days and measure and repeat previous steps.
> 
> I hope this makes sense. Cheers mate. Keep up the good work and thanks. We appreciate your help.


All seems right except, if temp goes down after cycling two days on two days off, then wouldn't that be the body down regulating, signalling to stop as opposed to "increasing for 5 days and repeating the earlier steps"?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

RocoElBurn said:


> All seems right except, if temp goes down after cycling two days on two days off, then wouldn't that be the body down regulating, signalling to stop as opposed to "increasing for 5 days and repeating the earlier steps"?


its easier to be more accurate running it ED (and you certainly can). However, even on 2on/2off- you need a sustained drop 2days in a row, even better 3 days in a row (ie even if the 2 off days a lower, if the third day is a t3 day, and the temp is lower than on last t3 day, then you have 3 lowered days in a row, and its good to come off; this can take months (if ever) on a 2on/2off approach


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## sawyer1 (May 16, 2012)

Raptor: as soon as i took my top off they asked me if i use AAS

AUSBUILT: hmmm.. think you're A&E guy was a tool...

you guys fvcking crack me up hahaha


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## Englishman (Oct 4, 2012)

Fantastic read, very informative, thanks for the info. :thumb:


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## Iluv2b_Free (Jun 18, 2011)

Sticky this.


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## tiwas (Oct 21, 2013)

ausbuilt said:


> apart form the scientific papers, well known BBs/trainers, like Paul Borreson said the same thing about T3 (its anabolic with AAS and 'slin):
> 
> http://www.bio-freak.com/members/2011/09/the-get-big-at-all-costs-stack-by-paul-borresen/


Hi, new to the forum but had to register to see if I could pick your brain 

I'm coming off T3 after being misdiagnosed. Been running 140mcg T3 for the last 6 years so "really looking forward to stopping"...

I would really appreciate it you'd answer these questions:

1. Should I go cold turkey or taper down? I was thinking about going down to 60mcg just to get my TSH active and then taper from there. From what I see I might as well just go cold turkey, but should I stay at 80mcg for a few days or is that just a waste?

2. Does the insulin timing have any effect on the T3 efficacy? I do 2IU of slin before my workouts and am considering doing two more before dinner (3-4 hours after the first injection). Up until now I've spread the T3 out over the course of the day but will change that to once daily while going off it.

Cheers!


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## carrerarich (Feb 26, 2012)

Is this protocol of Ausbuilt's still good to go?


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## goldie123 (Jul 31, 2011)

Also wondering this ^^^


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## spardaa (Dec 22, 2013)

is ausbuilt still around?


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## jackedjackass (Nov 16, 2014)

Metzer said:


> My planned cutting cycle is as follows : (roughly)
> 
> Anavar + Albuterol
> 
> ...


Cutting all comes down to diet.

T3 will help to get rid of the last stubborn fat really well, but on a bad diet, there is no point using it

25-50 mcg a day and you are good to go.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

No, it's not. I think going by your temperature is bad especially as he recommends 100mcg+. Also it's EXTREMELY catabolic at these dosages even when on a cycle. Ausbuilt takes in big amounts of steroids, obviously it wouldn't be catabolic for him. Broscience.


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