# Female Bodybuilding - Stopped?



## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

Seems like the IFBB are close to pulling the plug on female bodybuilding with the focus on fitness, bikini

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php/98674-WOMENS-PHYSIQUE-DIV-ANSWERS

choice quotes



> 1. Female Bodybuilding (FBB) will continue through the 2011 season, but numbers are what dictates where it goes, and to be honest...it doesnt look too good. Amateur participation is almost at zero, pro shows arent much better, and the support is negligable. There has to be a demand in order to justify a supply....just basic business dynamics. Without a ROI, it's a tough sell
> 
> 2. Fitness is being evaluated and changes made to see if it can be revived, same rules apply as it does with ANY of the divisions..





> We cant enforce change in a sport thats sole purpose is to get bigger, more ripped, more conditioned....Even the men are getting slack for physiques that many are saying are "too big", out of control, etc.....Bodybuilding is bodybuilding....be it man or woman. Technically speaking....the most muscular, biggest chick should win. Problem is, thats not accepted by anyone other than the winners....bottom line is, the sport ITSELF doesnt work.
> 
> Not the girls fault, not the judges fault, certainly not the fans fault....


There is a real possibility of female bodybuilding being removed from bodybuilding show classes in favour of the more popular Bikini + Fitness classes.

More quotes from bob chick, someone questioning why wont more pro cards be made available so the ranks are boosted = more compete



> The problem lies in your first sentence....of the 6 pro cards given out, only HALF COMPETE...
> 
> You know why the other half doesn't? Because they don't want to increase what they're doing anymore than they have, and don't want to look like what they see in front of them....problem 1
> 
> ...


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## D92 (Aug 25, 2010)

lol


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

A sad time for the women that want to compete at a high level


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## Kristeen (Jul 6, 2010)

Do you think they are trying to discourage women who take like steriods ect? Yeah thats rubbish for the woman that take part in it! loads of hard work to get to they standards!!

KP


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

personally ive never been a fan of female bodybuilding, but am a fan of the fitness class. however i think its a mistake removing the bodybuilding class.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Only my opinion but I think that half the problem is that the really big women barely resemble a women ( even in facial features) anymore and the majority of people dont want to see it.

And why would they when you look at the fitness side, its far more aestetically pleasing.

I'm not sure where I stand on it, I still am amazed at the muscle mass some of the female BB'ers manage to put on there frames.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

BigDom86 said:


> personally ive never been a fan of female bodybuilding, but am a fan of the fitness class. however i think its a mistake removing the bodybuilding class.


but lets say you were a promotor, would you put time, money and effort in to something that people just arnt in to?


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## Andrew Jacks (Sep 29, 2010)

Real shame for those who have dedicated so much effort, time and commitment to have the rug pulled out from below them


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

1russ100 said:


> but lets say you were a promotor, would you put time, money and effort in to something that people just arnt in to?


nope i wouldnt. but everytime you mention that half these women just look like blokes in wigs and bikinis you get a right bollocking 

i think its just public perception, the majority are going to prefer the fitness/bikini as its more "normal" than seeing a big muscular woman with a rugged jaw?


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

BigDom86 said:


> nope i wouldnt. but everytime you mention that half these women just look like blokes in wigs and bikinis you get a right bollocking
> 
> i think its just public perception, the majority are going to prefer the fitness/bikini as its more "normal" than seeing a big muscular woman with a rugged jaw?


i agree, each to their own but is how the general public see it and from a promotions point of view, the bottom line is 'ticket sales'

out of the 100 in the stats (bikini,fitness)at the top id say 80 would bring 4 maybe more supporters. its not rocket science.

no womens bb at the british gp?? no interest from a spectator/financial sources? nobody would probably admit it but id bet alot on that being the case


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Kristeen said:


> Do you think they are trying to discourage women who take like steriods ect? Yeah thats rubbish for the woman that take part in it! loads of hard work to get to they standards!!
> 
> KP


it is not only female Bodybuilders who take steroids it is just they take them to the extreme in some cases....

this is sad in the fact that the women who do train for the physique class train hard and are focused to be the best they can be unfortunatly the weak minded just focus on the drugs they use rather than what it takes to be that good.....

i am not surprised by the decision and i think it is the wrong one the UKBFF will soon go the same way seeing as they have set the change in motion all ready by introducing the bikini class and joining the female physique weight classes......


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## BLUTOS (Mar 5, 2005)

Bloody shame if it happens, peeps should be allowed to compete at whatever level or physique grade they wish to achieve for themselves.

Its honest for the governing group to admit they follow a business model as opposed to a purely sports based on the corinthian principle.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

If people believe that many fitness and figure girls don't take steroids they are very mistaken! I will personally be gutted if this class is removed because I really have no desire to compete in any other class. What saddens me is that women are being dictated to under the banner of conformity and will only be allowed to compete is the fit into a certain 'pretty box'. Utter bllx! The statement that it is to bring things in line with Europe is utter rubbish, since when has the IFBB been Europe led? Bearing in mind that most FBB pros are from USA as the only way to a pro card outside Europe is at the worlds or europeans. I just wish someone would have the balls to say 'We don't like this look and it doesn't sell so that's why we are getting rid' instead of being patronising and hiding behind excuses!


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## D92 (Aug 25, 2010)

good riddance i say :lol:


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## Mark W H (Jan 25, 2010)

Supply and demand, same as many other things in life


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

Mark W H said:


> Supply and demand, same as many other things in life


unfortunaly that is the bottom line. i think ive missed one year since the final went to notts and went to a few when it was at wembley and same thing happens every year

womens classes come on, people walk out to the bar,to get food. mens classes back on, place fills up again.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Well there is a very simple option!!!

Women can start up a womens only fed for women bodybuilders..

Can have their own comps the lot 

Why dont we have more women promotors putting money where their mouths are..

Shouldnt be left to men all time in any case 

GIRL POWER!!!!1


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

the "few" who do want to compete as bb can go to another fed.

no big deal.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

To be honest I won't miss it.

Women should be feminine not turning up with severly masculine facial features.

Men get marked down for distended guts from excess drug&peptide use, so why are women not marked down for having masculine features due to AAS?


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

i agree DB, the genie needs to be put back into the bottle


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

CJones said:


> Only my opinion but I think that half the problem is that the really big women barely resemble a women ( even in facial features) anymore and the majority of people dont want to see it.
> 
> And why would they when you look at the fitness side, its far more aestetically pleasing.
> 
> I'm not sure where I stand on it, I still am amazed at the muscle mass some of the female BB'ers manage to put on there frames.





BigDom86 said:


> nope i wouldnt. but everytime you mention that half these women just look like blokes in wigs and bikinis you get a right bollocking
> 
> i think its just public perception, the majority are going to prefer the fitness/bikini as its more "normal" than seeing a big muscular woman with a rugged jaw?


Mate.... I ended up not competeing this year but had planned to do the U55kg class as I am bigger than when I did figure (bodyfitness) the year before and I'm not a fan of the fact that figure only asks for quarter turns and nothing else. Unfortunately they have now merged the U55kg and O55kg class but anyway....

You're getting a bit carried away with yourself. Female bodybuilding classes here are girls like me, linny, elfintan etc.

The image you guys have in your head is of femae olympian standards and thats not what we're talking about here.



ElfinTan said:


> If people believe that many fitness and figure girls don't take steroids they are very mistaken! I will personally be gutted if this class is removed because I really have no desire to compete in any other class. What saddens me is that women are being dictated to under the banner of conformity and will only be allowed to compete is the fit into a certain 'pretty box'. Utter bllx! The statement that it is to bring things in line with Europe is utter rubbish, since when has the IFBB been Europe led? Bearing in mind that most FBB pros are from USA as the only way to a pro card outside Europe is at the worlds or europeans. I just wish someone would have the balls to say 'We don't like this look and it doesn't sell so that's why we are getting rid' instead of being patronising and hiding behind excuses!


Well said! :thumbup1:


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Kristeen said:


> Do you think they are trying to discourage women who take like steriods ect? Yeah thats rubbish for the woman that take part in it! loads of hard work to get to they standards!!
> 
> KP


I you think figure girls dont take steroids you are incredibly naiive lol....



D92 said:


> good riddance i say :lol:


 :confused1:



DB said:


> To be honest I won't miss it.
> 
> Women should be feminine not turning up with severly masculine facial features.
> 
> Men get marked down for distended guts from excess drug&peptide use, so why are women not marked down for having masculine features due to AAS?


I dont disagree Baz, but there are plenty women in the UK who arent as you describe. The likes of Tan and Linny for example who wouldn't fit into bodyfitness at all....



Vin said:


> So they gonna introduce yet another class for women, yet they had the chance a few years agor to steer FBB back to a more marketable look...they sais they were gonna mark down extreme size and condition yet Iris Kyle and Oraqueni and the rest kept being awarded victories!!
> 
> Now they think the best way is letting it fade out while introducing a new class, when they could have simply enforced the rules they made, let figure be what they were at the beginning (rounder look and leaner) and give a chance to smaller girl that want a softer look with bikini.
> 
> As things stand they have 2 classes (figure, bikini) easily crossed over which means standards are blurred.


Very much agree.... bodybuilding does not HAVE to be this stereotype that everyone keeps slagging off but its up to the judges to ensure this.


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## LeeB (Oct 5, 2011)

where the ifbb goes the ukbff will eventually follow... however - as long as the classes at amateur european and worlds levels are still in place then im sure the ukbff will keep the class... i think womens bodybuilding in europe is more competitive??

otherwise - ukbff's loss will be nabba's gain!

the professional side of womens bodybuilding is too much in my opinion... and *even more elite than mens bodybuilding *when you look at the top physiques and *what is potentially attainable!* Which is why alot dont progress into it... it would be a step too far for most!


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

leeb said:


> where the ifbb goes the ukbff will eventually follow... however - as long as the classes at amateur european and worlds levels are still in place then im sure the ukbff will keep the class... i think womens bodybuilding in europe is more competitive??
> 
> *otherwise - ukbff's loss will be nabba's gain!*
> 
> the professional side of womens bodybuilding is too much in my opinion... and *even more elite than mens bodybuilding *when you look at the top physiques and *what is potentially attainable!* Which is why alot dont progress into it... it would be a step too far for most!


Totally.....

The only advantage I see at the moment is the fact that NABBA only allow you to do one area show and thats it.... whereas with UKBFF you can do a few which is handy if you are still trying to learn about your body and how to fine tune things etc. Other than that everything else I hear about UKBFF these days seems negative...


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

from the origional post ive enterprated it as its not poular number from a competitors point of view.

just out of curiosity, how many were in the combined womens weight class at notts?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

They have been talking about doing this for years, damn shame if they do as IMO it's not the right way of going about things, but TBH who is to blame but the competitors themselves.


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

D92 said:


> good riddance i say :lol:


This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

I have known about this for a little while...thanks to a close friend.

Girls there is always the NAC! :lol:


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## D92 (Aug 25, 2010)

Lou said:


> This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


This is what i think of your statement ZZZZZZZZZZZZ......... ZZZZZZZZZZZ........... ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

:thumbup1:


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

I really hope it doesnt go as well... these ladies move heaven and earth to attain some pretty incredible physiques and tbh I am not going looking at them to [email protected] them but for the hard work, dedication and pure awesomeness of condition they have achieved to get where they are... who cares if the olympians have masculine features (although I do see DB's point and agree somewhat re the penalisation) again I aint taking them out for dinner nor are they there to look pretty... you want pretty go to watch miss world or miss universe... now from the ukbff show I saw some awesome physiques but feminine looking ladies... I agree with Tan and Zara et al... comparing the olympians to the amateurs is somewhat wrong...


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Lou said:


> This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


Bit harsh:confused1:

Surely he is entilted to express an opinionin a dignified manner, which he did!!

Cant say same about yourself..

I can appreciate you may not agree etc, but hardly warrants such explanatives..


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Lou said:


> This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


Lou I think you need to be more direct... I seems you are speaking above his intellect somewhat...


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

D92 said:


> This is what i think of your statement ZZZZZZZZZZZZ......... ZZZZZZZZZZZ........... ZZZZZZZZZZZZ
> 
> :thumbup1:


This species D92 shows a lack of respect and the absence of any intellect.....crawl back from whence you came. :cursing:


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

jw007 said:


> Bit harsh:confused1:
> 
> Surely he is entilted to express an opinionin a dignified manner, which he did!!
> 
> ...


As a female bodybuilder dietting for a show that might well be the last..... I am entitled to voice MY opinion on his opinion.


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## bennyboy (Feb 23, 2009)

Who would show you respect after your post


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## D92 (Aug 25, 2010)

Lou said:


> This species D92* shows a lack of respect* and the absence of any intellect.....crawl back from whence you came. :cursing:


What or who should i be respecting ??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Let's calm it down please. D92 you are entitled to your opinion but to be fair your one liners of do not contribute at all to the discussion nor does calling female bodybuilders "what" so either contribute constructavly to why you support or don't support the decision or refrain from commenting as your little digs will just cause hassle.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2010)

dont suppose anybody fancies answering my question regarding number of entrants at notts for combined physique class?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

1russ100 said:


> dont suppose anybody fancies answering my question regarding number of entrants at notts for combined physique class?


Russ i think it was 8-9 athletes


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Lou said:


> This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


 Nicely put:thumbup1:

I think its a total shame, the other female classes bore me but i love female bodybuilding.


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## roy (Feb 8, 2009)

These feds are going crazy!!


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## Linny (Jun 23, 2009)

NABBA still have a physique class. Yes it's only at the England and Universe because of the lack of interest BUT if more women showed an interest it will be put back in place. :thumbup1:

I can't compete with the UKBFF because I am far from body-fitness and bikini I don't think so. I will keep my opinions to myself as what I think of the bikini class, (what I will say is it's as far away from bodybuilding in my eyes as possibly could be, but can be used as a stepping stone for girls who want to do bodyfitness but don't yet have the size.)

Classes keep being down size, merged, removed = new federations will emerge, like a phoenix from the ashes


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Lou said:


> This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


Actually I forgot about you sorry.... ANOTHER good example of a girl too big for figure who still looks far from the masculine sterotype ppl are going on about! :thumbup1:



Linny said:


> NABBA still have a physique class. Yes it's only at the England and Universe because of the lack of interest BUT if more women showed an interest it will be put back in place. :thumbup1:
> 
> I can't compete with the UKBFF because I am far from body-fitness and bikini I don't think so. I will keep my opinions to myself as what I think of the bikini class, (what I will say is it's as far away from bodybuilding in my eyes as possibly could be, but can be used as a stepping stone for girls who want to do bodyfitness but don't yet have the size.)
> 
> Classes keep being down size, merged, removed = new federations will emerge, like a phoenix from the ashes


Prob with NABBA ditcing physique at regionals is that now a fair few of the trained figure girls are actually the old physique girls/that size......

Agree about bikini class am not keen myself either. Yes its a step in but then men have to wait til they achieve a certain physique before they can compete so why shouldnt women.

Other prob is that it reinforces the attitude that the womens classes "arent real bodybuilding and just a bit of fun......"


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## Seyyed-Merat (Sep 1, 2007)

isnt the new physique class meant to be inbetween figure and bodybuilding? So more muscular than figure, not as big as the fbb?


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

CJones said:


> Only my opinion but I think that half the problem is that the really big women barely resemble a women ( even in facial features) anymore and the majority of people dont want to see it.
> 
> And why would they when you look at the fitness side, its far more aestetically pleasing.
> 
> I'm not sure where I stand on it, I still am amazed at the muscle mass some of the female BB'ers manage to put on there frames.


And the BIG men look like normal men???

I find an athletic look far more appealing than the Ronnies but this sport is not about attraction to the opposite sex, it's about MUSCLES that's why it's called BODYBUILDING not who has the best wiggly **** in the highest hooker heels they can wear to potter on stage!


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## kitt81 (Sep 4, 2009)

Zara-Leoni said:


> Mate.... I ended up not competeing this year but had planned to do the U55kg class as I am bigger than when I did figure (bodyfitness) the year before and I'm not a fan of the fact that figure only asks for quarter turns and nothing else. Unfortunately they have now merged the U55kg and O55kg class but anyway....
> 
> You're getting a bit carried away with yourself. Female bodybuilding classes here are girls like me, linny, elfintan etc.
> 
> ...


fukin well said Z!!!! :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


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## kitt81 (Sep 4, 2009)

D92 said:


> good riddance i say :lol:


 :ban:

fukin immature response to what is to many of the female competitors on here a serious issue!!

Lou chick, u took the words right outa my mouth doll!!lol:thumbup1:


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

yes there are alot of feminine looking female bodybuilders, but there are alot of masculine looking ones, and at the highest level it is the ones who look like men who are winning. no?

i mean no offence, but when people air an opinion like this they are just given a bollocking.

your telling me this doesnt look like a man in a wig?:http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2482307155_d7513246f8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://femstrong.blogspot.com/2008/07/iris-kyle-at-2008-ny-pro-show.html&usg=__6OQmc_2PTwgjdaKe7xFHnv1rITY=&h=399&w=500&sz=133&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=2E-PMQGSSyUcyM:&tbnh=169&tbnw=220&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diris%2Bkyle%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1430%26bih%3D647%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1138&vpy=92&dur=449&hovh=200&hovw=251&tx=178&ty=112&ei=2ZfITJf_FoyVOtXLwPAI&oei=2ZfITJf_FoyVOtXLwPAI&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0


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## kitt81 (Sep 4, 2009)

i dont think they should do away with the physique classes here, as has been said the amateur level is nowhere near as big as the olympians, but then they would be too big for bikini/bodyfitness. i for one would not do either of those and to me bikini class doesnt really belong at a bb show. they dont penalise the guys for getting as big as they do so why should the girls be?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

but shouldnt some femininity be kept? i agree the amateur level isnt anywhere like the olympian level. its no the bodies which are off-puting, its the face, its just too much.

i agree at the amateur level the women still look like women (as has been said by zara) but at the highest level its a different story


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## kitt81 (Sep 4, 2009)

i agree that some of them have taken it too far but it was their choice and theyve worked hard to get there and at end of day its a BODYBUILDING show not a beauty pageant. JMO.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

no but a man would get marked down for a female trait (ie bad gyno ie breast tissue) so why wouldnt a woman get marked down for male traits such as facial changes?


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## kitt81 (Sep 4, 2009)

thats a fair point, so why do away with it altogether then?


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## kgb (Sep 13, 2009)

BigDom86 said:


> but shouldnt some femininity be kept? i agree the amateur level isnt anywhere like the olympian level. its no the bodies which are off-puting, its the face, its just too much.
> 
> i agree at the amateur level the women still look like women (as has been said by zara) but at the highest level its a different story


X 2

Separating sexes for the high level stuff does seem a little pointless sometimes.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

kitt81 said:


> thats a fair point, so why do away with it altogether then?


i disagree with doing away with it. but maybe put some kind of regulations of femininity (im not sure of the rules currently, maybe there are)


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

how can you mark that down,she's awesome,if you want better

quality you can always go and compete round europe,if i was

a serious female bb i would tbh,than wasting all your efforts in

the uk.


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## kitt81 (Sep 4, 2009)

BigDom86 said:


> i disagree with doing away with it. but maybe put some kind of regulations of femininity (im not sure of the rules currently, maybe there are)


yea there was a post in earlier in thread i think about feds having had the opportunity to do something about it.


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

I agree with Mal... that lady has a brilliant physique... and as has been said, you want fluttery eyelids and bs go see a beauty show... this is about bodybuilding and thats what should be scored not how subjectively beautiful someone is... else the likes of Francis Benefatto and Frank Zane would be hugely marked down for being too good looking and a bit effeminate...


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> Russ i think it was 8-9 athletes


8-9 in a national final in a COMBINED weight class?

That in itself is poor, sh!t infact. And is probably the reason why they are thinking of scrapping it.

8-9 people would have probably bought on average 4 supporters each lets say, which ticket sales wise is crap.

when the 8-9 walk on half the audience walks out, fact. seen it over and over again year after year. when the men come back on the place fills up

so introduce a bikini class! it cant be any less popular than female bb numbers wise? definatly not, so what have they got to losse?

look at the classics in its first year. ridiculed. last year it was the biggest class of the final, this year it was seperated in to 2 classes it was that big.

from a promotors point of view this unfortunatly is not rocket science.


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> no but a man would get marked down for a female trait (ie bad gyno ie breast tissue) so why wouldnt a woman get marked down for male traits such as facial changes?





kitt81 said:


> thats a fair point, so why do away with it altogether then?


No it's not a fair point!!

BB is about the body not the face. Next you're going to suggest that a female is marked down because she's not put on make up or earrings!!

Gyno detracts from the physical appearance of the whole body shape, a face does not. If a woman was naturally 'ugly' due to being quite masculine in her appearance would she be marked down? Again, coming down to a bl00dy beauty pageant!!

I know, next man on stage who hasn't got a shaved head and is wearing any form of jewellery, let's mark him down.


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

1russ100 said:


> 8-9 in a national final in a COMBINED weight class?
> 
> That in itself is poor, sh!t infact. And is probably the reason why they are thinking of scrapping it.
> 
> ...


If you were at the show you would have seen the standard of the women's class was extremely high.

Fact only 8 or 9 turned up was very good considering no pro card was on offer after all the hard work the ladies put in.


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

1russ100 said:


> so introduce a bikini class! it cant be any less popular than female bb numbers wise? definatly not, so what have they got to losse?
> 
> look at the classics in its first year. ridiculed. last year it was the biggest class of the final, this year it was seperated in to 2 classes it was that big.
> 
> from a promotors point of view this unfortunatly is not rocket science.


The classic class still has a good element of muscle. The bikini class is a tits and ars£ look at the moment. If a man has to have some muscle to stand on a BB stage then so should a female!

IT'S CALLED *BODYBUILDING*


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## Kristeen (Jul 6, 2010)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek140.htm


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

PRL said:


> If you were at the show you would have seen the standard of the women's class was extremely high.
> 
> Fact only* 8 or 9 turned up was very good* considering no pro card was on offer after all the hard work the ladies put in.


the origional post that ib posted said it was being scrapped due to popularity amongst entrants. in his post 160 entered a show, 100 were fitness and bikini, 2 were bb. says it all.

and if you think 8-9 in a national final is a good turnout then regardless of the standard, imo your wrong.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

Dawn said:


> The classic class still has a good element of muscle. The bikini class is a tits and ars£ look at the moment. If a man has to have some muscle to stand on a BB stage then so should a female!
> 
> IT'S CALLED *BODYBUILDING*


yes and the point is, its not popular hence the reason why they are thinking of scrapping it.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Russ the thing is I am not sure there was many more in the super heavies class at the finals should we get rid of that class?


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> Russ the thing is I am not sure there was many more in the super heavies class at the finals should we get rid of that class?


Difference is Paul

Everyone goes and pays money to watch super heavies

You know this, they are the big money draw, even if was just a handfull of them


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> Russ the thing is I am not sure there was many more in the super heavies class at the finals should we get rid of that class?


im not saying i agree, but from a promotors point of view i can see why they are thinking of going down that route

but from a specators point of view, who do you reckon half the people in the audience go to see?

i mean we all support our mates regardless of class or standard, but everyone stays and watches watches the super heavies with interest beacuse thats your olympic 100m event so to speak.


----------



## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

1russ100 said:


> the origional post that ib posted said it was being scrapped due to popularity amongst entrants. in his post 160 entered a show, 100 were fitness and bikini, 2 were bb. says it all.
> 
> and if you think 8-9 in a national final is a good turnout then regardless of the standard, imo your wrong.


Spoken like a newbie. A National Final is meant to be the elite.

This is still a underground sport mate. Will never be mainstream.

Figure and bikini are yes more mainstream, hence the move towards it.

I can understand, but to do away with FBB is not a good move in my eyes.

And yes, 8 to 9 IS good considering they took away any incentive for women to compete. Couple of years ago pro cards for ladies were available. Now nothing at all. If that doesn't demoralize don't know what else does.

I was worried about the female fitness class a couple of years ago. For 2 years I remember only one person entering.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

1russ100 said:


> im not saying i agree, but from a promotors point of view i can see why they are thinking of going down that route
> 
> but from a specators point of view, who do you reckon half the people in the audience go to see?
> 
> i mean we all support our mates regardless of class or standard, *but* *everyone stays and watches watches the super heavies* with interest beacuse thats your olympic 100m event so to speak.


And thats why they are put on last, because if they were on 1st, everyone would fck off pretty soon after they finished....

Me included


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

1russ100 said:


> im not saying i agree, but from a promotors point of view i can see why they are thinking of going down that route
> 
> but from a specators point of view, who do you reckon half the people in the audience go to see?
> 
> i mean we all support our mates regardless of class or standard, but everyone stays and watches watches the super heavies with interest beacuse thats your olympic 100m event so to speak.


Well when I go to a show I go to watch all the classes. Okay more interest in the ladies. But all the weight classes hold the same amount of interest. More so if a friend is competing.

Same with Nabba. Can't say I've been dying to sit and watch the Class 1 guys come on stage.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

PRL said:


> *Spoken like a newbie*. A National Final is meant to be the elite.
> 
> This is still a underground sport mate. Will never be mainstream.
> 
> ...


lmfao at that!

as for it being an underground sport, then surely budgets/funds are tighter so feds are less likely to run stuff that holds no real interest.

im not having a go at female bb because a close friend of mine who i used to train with aswell was british chmp, so i know what goes in to competing and winning.


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

jw007 said:


> And thats why they are put on last, because if they were on 1st, everyone would fck off pretty soon after they finished....
> 
> Me included


You just want to measure guns and see how you compare. :lol:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

PRL said:


> You just want to measure guns and see how you compare. :lol:


 :lol: :lol:

You say that in jest, but TBH an element of truth there:thumb:

You always want to see how you stack up next to the big Dog:beer:

Who wants to comapre gunnage against a classic:lol:

And yeah, prob watch your class to Pete


----------



## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

Vin said:


> Even more so FBB!
> 
> Let's not forget that the original discussion is about pro-level FBB.
> 
> ...


They have been doing this for years.

Pro figure have always held their own shows. And 100% agree Vince, IFBB to blame for letting it get to this stage.

But if this leads to the end of FBB due to promoters, I for one will be very sad.


----------



## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

jw007 said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> You say that in jest, but TBH an element of truth there:thumb:
> 
> ...


But I wanna be in the classics mate. lol. Mass is over-rated.

Yes I understand, you want to compare against your peers


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

BigDom86 said:


> no but a man would get marked down for a female trait (ie bad gyno ie breast tissue) so why wouldnt a woman get marked down for male traits such as facial changes?


EXACTLY!!

agree 100% and a point I made earlier in this thread


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

Dawn said:


> The classic class still has a good element of muscle. The bikini class is a tits and ars£ look at the moment. If a man has to have some muscle to stand on a BB stage then so should a female!
> 
> IT'S CALLED *BODYBUILDING*


thats short sighted though dawn as the more the women open pandoras box full of drugs, the more marginalised this side of the sport will become.

female bodybuilding is in decline

it will continue to circle the plug hole.

cory everson and lenda murray (pre-1995) were hugely popular, Iris Kyle? not so much....

people can say "we dont compete to look good for you" etc but the bottom line is the rug WILL be pulled from beneath them as the promotors no longer support a class that has no support from the paying punters.

Magazines will not have cover shots of FBB's as it doesnt sell anymore also.

Change is needed IMO and the quicker the plaster is ripped off and the changes introduced, the better.

A softly softly slow introduction will only lead to more confusion amoungst comeptitors with phrases such as "20% less mass this year ladies"


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## sceptic13 (Sep 28, 2007)

Just to bring a little clarity to the discussion, we need to separate 3 distinct questions. 1) Do the UKBFF have a logical reason for removing the womens b.building class?

2) Do the UKBFF have the right?

3) *SHOULD* the UKBFF remove the class?

Now, the answers to 1) and 2) are both irefutably 'yes'. The logical reason is that there is not a sufficiently sizable demand for it, in terms of competitiors and/or audience. As a plc they also clearly have the right.

The answer to 3) is inevitably subjective depending on your feelings and view of womens bodybuilding. There is no rationaly justifiable answer here either way. Personally, while I appreciate the hard work, dedication and sacrifice that female competitors make (arguably even more than the men since their drug use also causes masculinisation), I dont like it. Steroids only excagerate male characteristics in men. This doesnt undermine their essential natural characteristics. It *exaggerates* them. In women, of course, it erodes their natural female characteristics and makes them more masculine, *NOT* just in terms of additional muscle but all the other associated characteristics - jaw, forehead, skin, psychological profile etc. This is a fundamental distinction that cannot be refuted. I, and the vast majority of the audience, including both men *AND* women, dont find this appealing to look at.

Of course, I am not suggesting that what I, or others, find appealing or not should determine what women should be free to do. I am a libertarian by nature. Women should be, and indeed are, free to continue to bodybuild using steroids. They are also free to create a new federation, if they feel strongly enough about it, so that they can compete.

P.S.



Lou said:


> This is what I think of your statement FVCK YOU .....!!!


Watch that 'rage' Lou


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

With regards to there only being 8/9 at the finals I think people should be made aware that not everyone who 'won' there regional was invited to the finals as they were not considered to be of a 'suitable standard'. I have however never heard this being the case for ANY male class winners and point in case being that I believe there were around 30 in the classics class at the finals......now sure they weren't all of such a high standard! The 'classics' is however being actively promoted and encouraged. I myself am one of these and my point is not for it to be one of sour grapes because despite having to run around asking if I had an invite as no one had told me either way, I had an absolute fcking blast and loved every minute of the day. My worst nightmare was being the only one in my class....and I was so I won and came last by default. My personal goal was just to get myself ready and get on stage and compete....anything after was a bonus. The thing I found to be a shame is that I was denied being compared to my peers.....even if I was the bloody worst, until you stand next to someone you never know where you are in the mix.

As already mentioned there is no 'first timers' or 'novices' for this class so surely that should then mean that there will be a varying standard because everyone is thrown in the mix together and this should be taken into account. I hardly think there would be many blokes happy to step on stage for the 1st time knowing that it is quite possible that as a lightweight and 1st time on stage they could be stood next to the likes of Zack and Alvin. It would have made my year to be stood on the same stage as Lisa, Rene and Co this year. It didn't happen and trust me I will survive lol!

So the fact that there were so few at the finals is NOT purely due to lack of interest but lack of active promotion and encouragement for women to compete in this class. As the the feminine comments if you look at the winners from the last good few years they are completely unfounded.

Anyway.......powerlifting is the future...don't have to be pretty for that ;0)


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

ElfinTan said:


> With regards to there only being 8/9 at the finals I think people should be made aware that not everyone who 'won' there regional was invited to the finals as they were not considered to be of a 'suitable standard'. I have however never heard this being the case for ANY male class winners and point in case being that I believe there were around 30 in the classics class at the finals......now sure they weren't all of such a high standard! The 'classics' is however being actively promoted and encouraged. I myself am one of these and my point is not for it to be one of sour grapes because despite having to run around asking if I had an invite as no one had told me either way, I had an absolute fcking blast and loved every minute of the day. My worst nightmare was being the only one in my class....and I was so I won and came last by default. My personal goal was just to get myself ready and get on stage and compete....anything after was a bonus. The thing I found to be a shame is that I was denied being compared to my peers.....even if I was the bloody worst, until you stand next to someone you never know where you are in the mix.
> 
> As already mentioned there is no 'first timers' or 'novices' for this class so surely that should then mean that there will be a varying standard because everyone is thrown in the mix together and this should be taken into account. I hardly think there would be many blokes happy to step on stage for the 1st time knowing that it is quite possible that as a lightweight and 1st time on stage they could be stood next to the likes of Zack and Alvin. It would have made my year to be stood on the same stage as Lisa, Rene and Co this year. It didn't happen and trust me I will survive lol!
> 
> ...


so as an idea to encourage the bb, if you were the ukfbb would scrapping qualifiers and just enter on the day gain more interest? its the only way i can see of the top of my head numbers improving and giving everyone a chance?


----------



## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

Incredible Bulk said:


> thats short sighted though dawn as the more the women open pandoras box full of drugs, the more marginalised this side of the sport will become.
> 
> female bodybuilding is in decline
> 
> ...


IB, cutting down on the physique side will not reduce the drug issue. You're not telling me that you're niave enough to think that 100% of the figure girls are 100% natural??!!

I'm going to stick my hand up here and admit I don't like the overly muscular look of Iris but I love what she is and what she represents and good on her and if we had such comps over here I'd be first in the queue but we don't unfortunately. I do prefer the look of Cory/Juliette/Anja for example but I feel this new class would not even allow for that level of development. That would be a shame as the likes of Lisa Cross would fit into that sooooo easily.



sceptic13 said:


> Personally, while I appreciate the hard work, dedication and sacrifice that female competitors make (arguably even more than the men since their drug use also causes masculinisation), I dont like it. Steroids only excagerate male characteristics in men. This doesnt undermine their essential natural characteristics. It *excagertes* them. In women, of course, it erodes their natural female characteristics and makes them more masculine, *NOT* just in terms of additional muscle but all the other associated characteristics - jaw, forehead, skin, psychological profile etc. This is a fundamental distinction that cannot be refuted. I, and the vast majority of the audience, including both men *AND* women, dont find this appealing to look at.


Why is it more often that people refer to 'appeal' in an attraction point of view though when it comes to female BB and rarely the men!!?

I absolutely HATE the bloated ab look, it's not aesthetically pleasing to the eye and it's unatrractive BUT in addition to that it spoils the physique. A masculine face and skin texture does not!

LET'S BAN BLOATED BELLIES:thumbup1:


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

Dawn said:


> IB, cutting down on the physique side will not reduce the drug issue. You're not telling me that you're niave enough to think that 100% of the figure girls are 100% natural??!!
> 
> I'm going to stick my hand up here and admit I don't like the overly muscular look of Iris but I love what she is and what she represents and good on her and if we had such comps over here I'd be first in the queue but we don't unfortunately. I do prefer the look of Cory/Juliette/Anja for example but I feel this new class would not even allow for that level of development. That would be a shame as the likes of Lisa Cross would fit into that sooooo easily.
> 
> ...


Hey Dawn 

I know figure girls are dabbling but figure girls dont have the extreme gender reassignment do they? They look feminine and like a woman throughout....

Lisa Cross looked amazing at the british finals and i was picking my jaw off the floor... 

I'm with you on the bloated midsections, the same types of argument are thrown about in their defence "oh this is bodybuilding you need a big gut to build a big frame" etc etc etc, rinse, repeat....

Truth is it looks awful and would be happy to see it marked down for those who cant hold it in or bring it in.

Different subject though :tongue:


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

I know it's a different subject but it's comparible to the arguement!


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## sceptic13 (Sep 28, 2007)

Dawn said:


> Why is it more often that people refer to 'appeal' in an attraction point of view though when it comes to female BB and rarely the men!!?


You've answered your own question without knowing it,....because most people, I emphasise 'most' men and women, cannot help feeling a revulsion (for lack of a more diplomatic word) towards women that display overtly male characteristics. Yes its a value judgement, yes, its subjective, but the vast majority of people cant help but do it. It's in our nature in as much as it is in most womens nature to 'value' or 'find attractive' certain physical traits in men such as being tall and muscular. Its called evolution Dawn. Unfortunatley, for me, I'll ways be a short **** but I like to think I make up for it in other ways:wink:


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

sceptic13 said:


> You've answered your own question without knowing it,....because most people, I emphasise 'most' men and women, cannot help feeling a revulsion (for lack of a more diplomatic word) towards women that display overtly male characteristics. Yes its a value judgement, yes, its subjective, but the vast majority of people cant help but do it. It's in our nature in as much as it is in most womens nature to 'value' or 'find attractive' certain physical traits in men such as being tall and muscular. Its called evolution Dawn. Unfortunatley, for me, I'll ways be a short **** but I like to think I make up for it in other ways:wink:


There are beauty pagaents they can got to then!!


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

Dawn said:


> I know it's a different subject but it's comparible to the arguement!


but unfortunatly has no relevance to this argument whatsoever


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

question. could a post-op transvestite compete as a woman in bb'ing? ive always wondered. no offence.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

or the other way round, a woman turned man, compete as a male?


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## sceptic13 (Sep 28, 2007)

Dawn said:


> There are beauty pagaents they can got to then!!


Well its interesting isnt it? If you're saying the 'female' element to a competitor should be completely removed from any judging criteria then it would lead to the absurd situation of the male and female classes being merged together into one single class. Then the women *REALLY* would be being judged purely as 'bodybuilders'. Of course, the reality is they are, and will continue to be, judged as 'female bodybuilders' and most (there's that word again) peoples conceptions of 'female', *DOES* include an element of 'female attractiveness'. Some feminists may even argue that in taking male hormones and exaggerating what are considered, by most, to be ideal *MALE* traits it is actually female self-hatred.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

i think it would be better to merge, as where do you draw the line? as chemically they are males? and facially they appear male?


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## sceptic13 (Sep 28, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> question. could a post-op transvestite compete as a woman in bb'ing? ive always wondered. no offence.





BigDom86 said:


> i think it would be better to merge, as where do you draw the line? as chemically they are males? and facially they appear male?


Well in all seriousness this is actually a very good point because it poses the question of what determines the distinction that the vast majority of people make between men and women. I'm not talking about some academic semantic distinction but what we actually really do use everyday to decide who is a man or woman. The trouble is, one of them is the hormonal balance, and its associated effects on appearance. When women take steroids this distinction collapses in on itself so drug using female (by birth) bodybuilders cannot be said to be female in the *normally understood sense.* They're not being judged purely as women anymore but not as men (by birth) either. They become a kind of 'in-betweeny' and the lines all become a bit blurred.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

for this reason i think it should be merged or women to make their own federation?, as if a man became a woman and competed as a woman would this be classed as cheating? or if a woman became a man and competed as a man where would people stand for this?

its a similar problem of which happened in the olympics with that african woman runner (i forget the name), but she had both female and male reproductive organs and they didnt know whether to class her as male or female.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

BigDom86 said:


> *for this reason i think it should be merged or women to make their own federation?*, as if a man became a woman and competed as a woman would this be classed as cheating? or if a woman became a man and competed as a man where would people stand for this?
> 
> its a similar problem of which happened in the olympics with that african woman runner (i forget the name), but she had both female and male reproductive organs and they didnt know whether to class her as male or female.


in waht sense? to run a female class only show?


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

i like watching them all, the small petite girls, the beefy girls...all of them....

you go to a bodybuilding show to watch people who have built their bodies to great proportions.

you wouldn't go to a show if all the blokes were like mens fitness models


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## sceptic13 (Sep 28, 2007)

Kezz said:


> i like watching them all, the small petite girls, the beefy girls...all of them....
> 
> you go to a bodybuilding show to watch people who have built their bodies to great proportions.
> 
> you wouldn't go to a show if all the blokes were like mens fitness models


No, but the difference is that these 'men fitness models' would STILL look like *MEN* all be-it smaller, less muscular men. The main reason most people give for disliking female bodybuilders is that 'they look like men'. THAT is why it has a very limited following.


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

BigDom86 said:


> yes there are alot of feminine looking female bodybuilders, but there are alot of masculine looking ones, and at the highest level it is the ones who look like men who are winning. no?
> 
> i mean no offence, but when people air an opinion like this they are just given a bollocking.
> 
> your telling me this doesnt look like a man in a wig?:http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2482307155_d7513246f8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://femstrong.blogspot.com/2008/07/iris-kyle-at-2008-ny-pro-show.html&usg=__6OQmc_2PTwgjdaKe7xFHnv1rITY=&h=399&w=500&sz=133&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=2E-PMQGSSyUcyM:&tbnh=169&tbnw=220&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diris%2Bkyle%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1430%26bih%3D647%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1138&vpy=92&dur=449&hovh=200&hovw=251&tx=178&ty=112&ei=2ZfITJf_FoyVOtXLwPAI&oei=2ZfITJf_FoyVOtXLwPAI&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0


Perhaps you should tell Iris' husband that....... :cool2:


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

sceptic13 said:


> No, but the difference is that these 'men fitness models' would STILL look like *MEN* all be-it smaller, less muscular men. The main reason most people give for disliking female bodybuilders is that 'they look like men'. THAT is why it has a very limited following.


Nah.....they would all look like metro-sexuals...


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

There is ONE predominant reason female BB has declined on UK shores..... The mainstream magazines titles; Flex, Muscle and Fitness, Muscular Development The Beef etc pulled the women from the pages and replaced them with advertising revenue - which generated more $ than female bodybuilders - apparently female bodybuilders on the front cover don't sell magazines anymore.

A lack of exposure to the means decline - just like a product life cycle - FBB had its peak in the mid to late nineties now its dying caused by this lack of exposure.

SO women can let it die OR give it new life and find a NEW USP.....


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## D92 (Aug 25, 2010)

Its got fuk all to do with exposure Lou.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2010)

Lou said:


> There is ONE predominant reason female BB has declined on UK shores..... The mainstream magazines titles; Flex, Muscle and Fitness, Muscular Development The Beef etc pulled the women from the pages and replaced them with advertising revenue - which generated more $ than female bodybuilders - *apparently female bodybuilders on the front cover don't sell magazines anymore.*
> 
> A lack of exposure to the means decline - just like a product life cycle - FBB had its peak in the mid to late nineties now its dying caused by this lack of exposure.
> 
> SO women can let it die OR give it new life and find a NEW USP.....


why do you think there is a lack of exposure ? because thevolume of the readers clearly dont care so why try and sell something that nobody wants to buy. that unfortunatly is as simple as it gets.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Female BB gets no exposure because there is no demand for it,

Basic supply and demand which echos every aspect of life.

Opinions on female BB are always going to be chalk and cheese.

Look back over the last few years at the finals and you can see the same competitors getting more and more masculine and its a real shame to see, soon enough they'll stop chasing the dream and realise they've totally screwed their bodies up for the hunt of a plastic trophy.


----------



## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

1russ100 said:


> so as an idea to encourage the bb, if you were the ukfbb would scrapping qualifiers and just enter on the day gain more interest? its the only way i can see of the top of my head numbers improving and giving everyone a chance?


You know Russ I really do wish I had the answer but I don't. I don't think anyone is asking for special treatment but just the same chance the blokes get. I really do think it's a shame but it comes as no suprise at all and I have had conversations very recently where I have voiced concerns about the longevity of this class. The fact is there are women out there who do want to compete in this class so surely ALL the federations should give the opportunity for them to do so. No one questions the amount of competitors in the masters, juniors etc which often have small numbers eligible at qualifiers and finals.



Incredible Bulk said:


> Hey Dawn
> 
> *I know figure girls are dabbling but figure girls dont have the extreme gender reassignment do they? *They look feminine and like a woman throughout....
> 
> Lisa Cross looked amazing at the british finals and i was picking my jaw off the floor...


If by 'dabbling' you include, anavar, primo, winstrol, deca, eq, gh, clen, masteron, proviron, arimadex...all of which I personally know have been used by figure girls! And as you mentioned the girls at the other end at this years finals, Lisa and Rene in particular looked spectacular and, in relative terms, feminine (this will always be subjective).



BigDom86 said:


> question. could a post-op transvestite compete as a woman in bb'ing? ive always wondered. no offence.


This has 'allegedly' already happened and the best thing was they didn't win....not because they looked too masculine but because the girls had glaringly superior physiques.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

DB said:


> Female BB gets no exposure because there is no demand for it,
> 
> Basic supply and demand which echos every aspect of life.
> 
> ...


But is it these ones who are winning?

As for screwing their bodies....rightly or wrongly it is theirs to screw (so to speak lol)


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## roy (Feb 8, 2009)

What and all the male athletes arent screwing their bodies??? This is a joke to be fair.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

ElfinTan said:


> But is it these ones who are winning?
> 
> As for screwing their bodies....rightly or wrongly it is theirs to screw (so to
> 
> speak lol)


From this years finals.. NOPE!

Of course it is their body, just my opinion



roy said:


> What and all the male athletes arent screwing their bodies??? This is a joke to be fair.


Of course male atheletes are in danger too. However a MALE competitor taking a synthetic MALE hormone is obviously at a far lower risk than a FEMALE taking MALE hormones.


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## roy (Feb 8, 2009)

True i see what your saying.. But it looks to me like some of these feds lately are acting like a dictatorship.. They must see without the athletes these feds are nothing they must remember this!


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Yeah I do see what you're saying mate,

Its obviously been thought through and there's more to it than you or I will know about. Abit dodgy but it's life I guess.

Now if everyone is actually honest most of the time watching the physique class all you hear from the crowd is snarky remarks about the 'look' of the women


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

DB - I appreciate it is an opinion mate!

But -

Xyleese

Michelle Jones

Venetia Gloux

Masculine?

I personally think they have all got the balance just right! (IMVVHO)


----------



## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

ElfinTan said:


> DB - I appreciate it is an opinion mate!
> 
> But -
> 
> ...


Yeah those girls do have it right. However, I've know Venetia for about 9 years as we trained in the same gym and started competing at the same show so I've seen her change alot!

None were at the finals this year tho unfortunately, I won't name names as its disrespectful to those ladies


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

DB said:


> Yeah those girls do have it right. However, I've know Venetia for about 9 years as we trained in the same gym and started competing at the same show so I've seen her change alot!
> 
> None were at the finals this year tho unfortunately, I won't name names as its disrespectful to those ladies


I am not denying that changes are inevitable(sp). I think you know me better than to think I would deny the obvious. My point being mainly that those who are getting this 'balance' right are actually the ones that are being rewarded with the top placings so this should really send a message out to those who are perhaps not getting it quite right that more is NOT more.

Your tact is also very much appreciated and I think it goes to show that we can have differing opinions and still behave like adults

.....I am taking my ball home now though:whistling:


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> but shouldnt some femininity be kept? i agree the amateur level isnt anywhere like the olympian level. its no the bodies which are off-puting, its the face, its just too much.
> 
> i agree at the amateur level the women still look like women (as has been said by zara) but at the highest level its a different story


We're discussing UK comps though not olympians.... why must the UK gi8rls be tarred with the same brush as those ones?



romper stomper said:


> Its a shame if it does go- but if the sport does not have enough interest what can feds do ??
> 
> If it is to curb/lessen the use of Steroids the IFBB should start with the men- the most Hypocritical of organizations around- just look at the PDF downloads of banned substances on thier site- I have heard speeches upon speeches at competitions by w8nker officials stating the war on steroids is being won and they hope bodybuilding will be considered as an Olympic sport.
> 
> Then they sit down and watch the competitors EVERY single one a user- while the drug testing staff sit around bored picking thier noses as no person is being tested- a complete and utter load of w8ankers and total bollocks


As elfintan said if they let the winners of every regional through there would have been a damm site more!

As for the drug testing... they do.... Marius Dohne missed out on his pro card 2 yrs ago for failing a drug test and my ex Michail competes internationally and he says the top placings in each class are tested and ppl have to be careful and bear that in mind during prep.... he's been tested several times apparently by IFBB.



Dawn said:


> No it's not a fair point!!
> 
> BB is about the body not the face. *Next you're going to suggest that a female is marked down because she's not put on make up or earrings!!*
> 
> ...


Thats actually happened to me.... 



romper stomper said:


> Turning into an interesting debate - my opinions -* I think a lot of people are using the most extreme examples of female bodybuilding to make a point.* The female sport was pushed and pushed by federations IFBB a big one in the early days- they then like the male sport manipulated it - to win you had to be a lot more muscular and shredded to the bone ( they make all their money on the supps) - thus a rise in use with the girls- now its gone too far/ now non profitable ( they started it in the first place- creating ) lets f*uck it off wash our hands.
> 
> *The majority of female bodybuilders are far far from being masculine*- hot bods tight as hell - firm ass well you can not get better !! total horn- met over a 3 month period in the gym cory everson ms olympia 6 times ??- years after she retired- totally and absolutally stunning - allot better in the flesh then in any pic !! absolute babe
> 
> What can girls use to counter the balance/sides of use ?? do girls have a ptc ??? counterbalences as effective as a male can do ?? to stop sides such as masculinaty.


Exactly 

And no... we dont have an equivalent of PCT. There are applications of similar drugs (clomid/HCG) which are designed for female use anyway and can be used to re-regulate things IF they dont go back as they should.... and ovulation tests from chemist can confirm how things stand but most dont bother tbh. Its a debatable point in itself anyway.... Plus, when we come off, the withdrawal of externally supplied androgens leaves you with a very high oestrogen to androgen ratio.... higher than desirable but it IS the right way round unlike men and tends to settle fairly quickly.....


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

BigDom86 said:


> question. could a post-op transvestite compete as a woman in bb'ing? ive always wondered. no offence.


Happens already.... NABBA Universe... I have photos... 

They dnt place well at all though....



sceptic13 said:


> You've answered your own question without knowing it,...*.because most people, I emphasise 'most' men and women, cannot help feeling a revulsion (for lack of a more diplomatic word) towards women that display overtly male characteristics.* Yes its a value judgement, yes, its subjective, but the vast majority of people cant help but do it. It's in our nature in as much as it is in most womens nature to 'value' or 'find attractive' certain physical traits in men such as being tall and muscular. Its called evolution Dawn. Unfortunatley, for me, I'll ways be a short **** but I like to think I make up for it in other ways:wink:


So?

They're not there to be judged on their faces lol.

I do understand the sentiment... I dont like it, I dont want to look that way... but there are some ****ing ugly men out there competing too....

At the end of the day competitiors really ought to be judged from the neck down.

Its up to the feds and judges to mark girls down who look wrong for the standard.

I dont agree with girls whos BODIES look masculine placing up.... I'll agree with that. But I'll never agree with comments on faces.

Jeez..... walk round any town centre on a saturday and you'll see "women" with worse faces than that naturally..... :lol:


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

I cant really understand this tbh, unless im missing something.

Ive never attended a bb show but seems like there are lots of different classes, in which case why cant there be room for a female bbing class?? Does it really take up that much extra time??

The amount of people in the audience who enjoy watching it might be much less than mens open heavyweights etc but unless it actually puts people off attending a show (cant see how it would) then seems like the only reason to do away with it is due to the time issue.

Shame for the female bbers who want to showcase what they have trained hard for.

The supply/demand issue is obv a big thing when it comes to selling mags or if it was a female only bbing show, but if it's mixed in with the rest of the classes, as it is, then the only thing that could effect demand is if people thought 'really want to watch xxxx at the bbing show, nah actually fck that there is a female bbing class i arent gunna bother going'.


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

romper stomper said:


> a brit one - also totally horrible - these girls are so manly they have no chance of getting into my pants !!


Well I guess you just endeared yourself to everyone on the site.

Said it before, seems to be a lack of respect to fellow BB on this site. It's meant to be a community, yet we have narrow minded stuff like this.


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

romper stomper said:


> the exact point i was trying to prove !!!


What, that a serious discussion about the state of female bodybuilding has turned into a debate on weather you would shag a FBB or find them sexually attractive????


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

LOL Pete, I think he was proving a point - that female BBers aren't disgusting/masculine etc

Those women he posted are stunners in my eyes - obv not primarily what the thread is about, but a valid illustration nonetheless - imo like

plus I got to see boobz, and that can never be a bad thing, like, ever


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

If nobody wants to see physique women why are so many of them making a serious amount of money through having websites you need to subscribe to if you want a look at them in various states of undress? I'm not aware of any pro male bodybuilders with subscription only websites that are making the kind of money the women are.

With regards to how anyone looks, it's subjective. There are probably some guys posting negative stuff about physique women in this thread who don't really have the right to because they can hardly be classed as bodybuilders themselves at their stage of development.

Another point is, does everyone who's posted actually go to shows? Have you actually met many physique women? Are you going by the contest pictures you see in the magazines? If you are you can rest assured they look like that for a month a year, the rest of the year they look very different. If you don't attend shows what difference does it make to you?

If the ladies class is a chance for some people to go to the bar or the toilet then we should be grateful for it! A hall full of thirsty people needing a p1ss would not be a good thing.

The UKBFF have never shown much regard for the athletes, the suits think they're the stars and treat the competitors accrdingly most of the time.


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

Well said Extreme!

I take it Romper was being sarcastic then as those girls certainly look stunning to me! (Don't tell my hubbie I said that  )


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

rs007 said:


> LOL Pete, I think he was proving a point - that female BBers aren't disgusting/masculine etc
> 
> Those women he posted are stunners in my eyes - obv not primarily what the thread is about, but a valid illustration nonetheless - imo like
> 
> plus I got to see boobz, and that can never be a bad thing, like, ever


Rams,

I like yourself know my own mind on what's attractive and not.

I know the point he was trying to put across. But I disagree with using half naked women to illustrate his point.

How are we meant to have a serious discussion about female bodybuilding as a sport when we bring images like these into the thread. There is a time and place.


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

Photos removed for nudity.

Remember guys, people view this site at work.

L


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## sceptic13 (Sep 28, 2007)

EXTREME said:


> If nobody wants to see physique women why are so many of them making a serious amount of money through having websites you need to subscribe to if you want a look at them in various states of undress? I'm not aware of any pro male bodybuilders with subscription only websites that are making the kind of money the women are.


Wanting to see female bodybuilders compete in a competition purely from a bodybuilding perspective is one thing. Wanting to pay to jerk off to female bodybuilders in varying states of undress etc is another. It's called porn, and I believe many female bodybuilders would find it actually rather depressing that this is the only way they can make money from their hard work.



EXTREME said:


> With regards to how anyone looks, it's subjective. There are probably some guys posting negative stuff about physique women in this thread who don't really have the right to because they can hardly be classed as bodybuilders themselves at their stage of development.


I was UKBFF British U70kg Champion 2007.



EXTREME said:


> Another point is, does everyone who's posted actually go to shows? Have you actually met many physique women? Are you going by the contest pictures you see in the magazines? If you are you can rest assured they look like that for a month a year, the rest of the year they look very different.


My partner is Michelle Jones 2x Womens Overall British Champion.



EXTREME said:


> The UKBFF have never shown much regard for the athletes, the suits think they're the stars and treat the competitors accrdingly most of the time.


I wouldnt disagree with this. However, they're not a charity, they're a Plc (apparently) so are free to do what they like, just as competitors are free to start rival federations.


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## bigphil1982 (May 13, 2010)

I'm thinking (and this is just one view) that female bodybuilders aren't marketable. Male bodybuilders can be advertised promoting a supplement and young guys will rush out and buy that product, same for fitness and bikini competitors (they can promote a product and most women will say to theirselves "yes I wanna look like that") but few women wanna look like a female bodybuilder, so their use in marketing products is limited and the whole bodybuilding business is built on the sale of supplements.

I'm not saying it's right but from a business point of view the guys in suits are just thinking "we might as well get rid of that". Sad really.

I don't think, like some have said it has anything to do with AAS because fitness competitors use them too.


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## GBLiz (Jul 9, 2004)

Zara-Leoni said:


> So?
> 
> They're not there to be judged on their faces lol.
> 
> ...


agree- some girls are not naturally blessed with barbie doll faces , and dieted look incredibly haggard and this emphasises the jawline. There are plenty of women whose faces could be described as 'masculine' if you took them in isolation...


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## GBLiz (Jul 9, 2004)

Anyway i think some people may be missing one of the key points that the bodybuilding class isnt actually being stopped- they are introducing a new Physique class which is similar to the OLD figure before figure softened up so much. This will really suit UK girls such as Carmen Knights , or anyone else with the Monica Brant/ Gina Allotti look from some years ago. Linnie would also fit well in this class i'd guess

Bodybuilding for women will still exist but i think the fed HOPES it will fade itself out natually.....hopefully they wont encourage this extinction too drastically


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## Kate1976 (Jul 19, 2008)

Interesting article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/dietandfitness/8120067/Bikinis-and-biceps-the-world-of-female-bodybuilders.html


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

That was a really good article unbiased and telling it how it is for once.

left my comments...


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

Incredible Bulk said:


> Seems like the IFBB are close to pulling the plug on female bodybuilding with the focus on fitness, bikini
> 
> http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php/98674-WOMENS-PHYSIQUE-DIV-ANSWERS
> 
> ...


I thought I would give this thread a bit of a kick to get a little clarity on the Ladies physique class; I had this discussion with Juliette Bergmann as she is A) accessible B) sits on the IFBB Executive Committee I thought I might get a sensible reply from her - this was her reply in blue

*Re:IFBB Women's Physique Classes 1 hrs. ago (permalink) *

*
*

*
Nevertoolate*

*
*

*
*

*
Hi Juliette *

*
*

*
Thank you for your response..... good to know that consideration is being given to an additional classic bodybuilding class for the ladies...however there seems to be a thought that women's bodybuilding in the style of Iris Kyle, Yaxeni Oriquen, Heather Armbrust etc and the bigger amateur women will be finished and killed off when the new women's classic bodybuilding is approved. Is this being talked about seriously by the IFBB? *

*
*

*
Lou *

*
*

*
PS Happy Birthday for today! *

*Definitly not! *

*
*

*
That is why the IFBB consider a womens BB class for the not so muscular ladies so the bigger ladies can be as big they like. *

*
*

*
It is wrong to forget were you come from and the IFBB will never forget were they come from. *

*
*

*
xxx *

*
*

*
Juliette Bergmann *

*
IFBB Nederland President *

*
IFBB executive member *

*
IFBB Ms. Olympia *

*
IFBB Int. & Pro judge *

*
IFBB Hall of Famer *

*
**www.juliettemsolympia.com* 

*
**www.juliette-bergmann.com* 

*
**www.ifbbnederland.nl* 

*
**www.ifbb.com*


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

would of been nice to have this responce from our IFBB reps in this country


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> would of been nice to have this responce from our IFBB reps in this country


Well in fairness Sarah Bridges mentioned to me that she had e-mailed Jim Manion about the rumours - and he denied that this had ever been talked about however as you stated Paul a more public statement would be nice to put the Ladies' minds at rest.


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