# Gyno reversal with tamoxifen (study)



## Nostaw

After reading this study it baffles me that on this forum and all others I visit when it comes to gyno reversal the only two solutions I see posted are letro or surgery

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18357357

the important bit: "At six months gynecomastia disappeared in 26 patients (62%)" - that's at 20mg per day

according to that study, long-term tamoxifen is a perfectly fine solution when it comes to gyno reversal, plus it has no side effects and it's cheap... which is why im confused ive never seen anyone recommend it/people say it's impossible for nova to reverse gyno

Is there something im missing?

would appreciate your input

p.s. I tried letro for 60 days, didn't get any significant improvement. Now I'm considering long-term tamoxifen use.


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## 25081

Interesting. Subbed.


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## Nostaw

Also something important I missed:

"Mastodynia disappeared in all patients at three months."

Mastodynia is the pain/discomfort/sensitivity caused by gyno


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## ItsaSecret

its inefficient and takes a long time, as opposed to letro taking a lot quicker


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## 25081

Will the cost of a short course of Letro be cheaper than the cost of 6 months of Nolva?


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## Nostaw

ItsaSecret said:


> its inefficient and takes a long time, as opposed to letro taking a lot quicker


yes, but for people like me i was on it for 60 days and had terrible side effects... and it didnt end up working

now my options are take letro again (this time for longer, probably 90+ days) or try tamoxifen for 6+ months

but yea, in my opinion letro should be the first thing you try


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## Nostaw

ShaneB said:


> Will the cost of a short course of Letro be cheaper than the cost of 6 months of Nolva?


not too sure

if im not wrong from my supplier i think 6 months of tamoxifen costs roughly the same as 2 months of letro

Edit

Just found some more info from studies on the reversal of gyno with tamoxifen from pubmed

http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?65112-Need-Some-Advice-On-Gyno

read post #8

i'll quote the important parts:

"Sixty-eight patients with idiopathic gynecomastia were seen in the Breast Clinic. The median age was 39.5 years (range, 13-82), with a median duration of symptoms of 3 months (range, 1-90). The median size was 3 cm (range, 1-7). *Twenty-three patients were treated with tamoxifen and 20 with danazol. Complete resolution of the gynecomastia was recorded in 18 patients (78.2%) treated with tamoxifen*"

"*Based on the good results of another author 10 boys with marked pubertal gynecomastia were treated with the antioestrogen Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) at a dose of 20-40 mg/d orally for 2-12 months. In most cases the gynecomastia decreased totally, only two patients experienced palpable subareolar glandular tissue at the end of therapy*"

"Sixty-one Chinese men with idiopathic gynecomastia were treated with 40 mg of tamoxifen daily for one of four months (median, two months). *Eighty percent had complete regression of their breast swelling*. No long-term side effects of tamoxifen were observed over a median follow-up period of 36 months."

"*Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%*; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041)."

"We evaluated the efficacy of the tamoxifen treatment in 37 patients with pubertal gynecomastia. All had distinct, easily palpable breast swellings with a diameter of over three cm. Pain, tenderness, and swelling associated with gynecomastia were reported by six patients. Eight of the patients were obese. One patient also suffered from varicocele. Pain and size reduction was seen in all patients with tamoxifen treatment."

"After suppression of anabolic steroid intake and treatment with tamoxifen, a high remission rate can be achieved "


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## Nostaw

bump for some input


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## craig24

I've been reading a few posts on other forums about this. I'm going to be running 20mg of Nolva everyday to see if I can shrink an old gyno lump from a dbol only course I did a few years back.

I will post a log on what happens.


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## Mars

Nostaw said:


> After reading this study it baffles me that on this forum and all others I visit when it comes to gyno reversal the only two solutions I see posted are letro or surgery
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18357357
> 
> the important bit: "At six months gynecomastia disappeared in 26 patients (62%)" - that's at 20mg per day
> 
> according to that study, long-term tamoxifen is a perfectly fine solution when it comes to gyno reversal, plus it has no side effects and it's cheap... *which is why im confused ive never seen anyone recommend it*/people say it's impossible for nova to reverse gyno
> 
> Is there something im missing?
> 
> would appreciate your input
> 
> p.s. I tried letro for 60 days, didn't get any significant improvement. Now I'm considering long-term tamoxifen use.


Because you haven't been here long? iv'e recommended and posted it numerous times over the years and plenty of guys have used it succssefully.


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## Fullhouse

Mars said:


> Because you haven't been here long? iv'e recommended and posted it numerous times over the years and plenty of guys have used it succssefully.


I was gonna say this as you have been preaching this for ages


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## 3752

Have no time to read the studies just yet but can anyone who has let me know how many of the subjects used anabolic steroids or got the Gyno from steroids?


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## Jack92

I did a 4 week cycle of nolva @ 40mg ED and i completely reversed it for me!


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## Mars

Pscarb said:


> Have no time to read the studies just yet but can anyone who has let me know how many of the subjects used anabolic steroids or got the Gyno from steroids?


Don't know mate, some were hypogonadal some of the gyno was from meds but doesn't say which ones.

The guys that i know it helped had used steroids, but TBH gyno is caused by excess estrogen or an imbalance of test > estrogen (IE: hypogonadal males, as in the study) whether it's pubertal or AAS induced.


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## Gridlock1436114498

Pscarb said:


> Have no time to read the studies just yet but can anyone who has let me know how many of the subjects used anabolic steroids or got the Gyno from steroids?


Here you are Paul, looks like 8 people.

Forty three patients with gynecomastia, aged 12 to 62 years, were studied. Twenty seven patients had a pubertal physiological gynecomastia, in eight it was caused by medications, in four it was secondary to hypogonadism, in three it was idiopathic and in one it was due to toxic exposure.


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## 3752

cheers Grid, i guess we are assuming medication being steroids? not GH or other?

just playing devils advocate thats all, like Mars i have had success with guys useing nolva but sometimes these studies are bantered around as a way to prove something and it has no connection to why we would all need it.......


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## zyzz379

Nostaw said:


> yes, but for people like me i was on it for 60 days and had terrible side effects... and it didnt end up working
> 
> now my options are take letro again (this time for longer, probably 90+ days) or try tamoxifen for 6+ months
> 
> but yea, in my opinion letro should be the first thing you try


Hey man I was wondering if you took the 6 months tamoxifen or the 3 months letro and if so, what were the outcomes? Do you still have gyno? Did it get better?


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## Jas

zyzz379 said:


> Hey man I was wondering if you took the 6 months tamoxifen or the 3 months letro and if so, what were the outcomes? Do you still have gyno? Did it get better?


ANother good article: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118882311&page=1

I'm about to try myself. Tamoxifen though does tighten-up / dry up the body, right? I've taken it before at 10mg a day, and found my eye's drying up and body tightening, am assuming that the reduction in estrogen its hitting. Do these symptoms eventually go away, anyone got any experience on it, and the symptoms / side affects whilst on it?


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## lambrettalad

subbed to read later


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## zyzz379

Jas said:


> ANother good article: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118882311&page=1
> 
> I'm about to try myself. Tamoxifen though does tighten-up / dry up the body, right? I've taken it before at 10mg a day, and found my eye's drying up and body tightening, am assuming that the reduction in estrogen its hitting. Do these symptoms eventually go away, anyone got any experience on it, and the symptoms / side affects whilst on it?


I took tamox for 20 days then stopped. Then letro for 6 weeks (1 box of 30 tabs, 2.5mg each) and I took a tab a day for 19 days straight and then immediately after I started to take 6 weeks of epistane, 30mg a day. For all of these I had NO RESULTS.

In the last 6 days of epistane I started to take 20mg tamox at the same time, by the end of the 5th day I noticed a 30-40% reduction of the dime-sized gyno on my right nipple. I decided to buy more epistane and take it for more 10 days along with tamox. I am currently in the middle of those 10 days and am taking 20mg of epi + 20mg of tamox a day. I think it is working!!!! As soon as I stop taking epi in about 5 to 6 days, I will continue to take 20mg tamox for the next 45 days or so to do the PCT for the letro and all the **** I have taken so far just for the gyno.

In other other words, only TAMOX combined with EPISTANE did the trick! Not even letro helped and I'm 100% sure it was the real deal and even had some nasty joint effects with it. I have had no side effects with tamox and epistane. Hope it helped.


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## joshuasbox

Sorry to revive a dead thread but im desparate to cure my gyno please bear with me. I have had gyno for years as puffy nipples and hard lumps under my nipples and its taken toll on my confidence. I dont feel comfortable taking my shirt off 90% of the time. Ive read the posts here and im wondering if it will reverse or.cure my gyno and puffy nipples. When theyre hard they look fine and i look normal, which is how i believe my nipples are supposed to look. Please no negative feedback.


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## raj-m

Whats your bf%.

If its true gyno and you had it for years surgery may be only ssolution.

Has a doc seen it and diagnosed you.


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## joshuasbox

My doc diagnosed me with it. Glandular tissue gyno. My bf% is around 12 to 15.


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## bigjohnc

I think it depends what stage you are at with the gyno. puffy sensitive nipples can be treated with Nolva, if its developed into a hard lump behind the nipple its more serious.

In either case I would use adex or letro. Nolva might work but adex and letro are definitely more effective imo.


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## FuqOutDaWhey

> I think it depends what stage you are at with the gyno. puffy sensitive nipples can be treated with Nolva, if its developed into a hard lump behind the nipple its more serious.
> 
> In either case I would use adex or letro. Nolva might work but adex and letro are definitely more effective imo.


Isn't Aromasin more effective than adex?


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## joshuasbox

My gyno isnt from roids. I think i got it from risperdal.


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## bigjohnc

> Isn't Aromasin more effective than adex?


Aromasin is also an option to treat gyno, I'd pick it over letro. Not sure about adex but you can read this if you like:

https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/aromasin-exemestane-vs-arimidex-anastrozole


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## bigjohnc

This is an old tread I found years ago you might find helpful:

http://forums.steroid.com/educational-threads/236880-all-you-need-know-about-gyno.html


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## FuqOutDaWhey

Will have a look through mate, got pea size lump under each nip even on 25mg DH Aromasin. Have ordered an oestrogen check also


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## special-k25

if you have a lump i dont see how you can reverse it, shrink it maybe and take away some of the pain but i think reversal is only possible with surgery


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## Robin7788

I have used dbol about 6 years ago only for 3 weeks and since then I have these nipples fat. They never hurt or anything . They get better when I'm outside in cold don't know how .

I have tried everything to get rid of them even last year
View attachment 120860
I lost most of body fat was doing really good at gym . But they don't wanna go .

What you guys would recommend . Should I try nolva , letro or only surgery can fix this s**t

thanks


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## Mark wright

I have a lump behind my left nipple and nipple is puffed out how long would tamoxifen take to shift this ?


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## sitries

Nostaw said:


> yes, but for people like me i was on it for 60 days and had terrible side effects... and it didnt end up working
> 
> now my options are take letro again (this time for longer, probably 90+ days) or try tamoxifen for 6+ months
> 
> but yea, in my opinion letro should be the first thing you try


 I'v reversed it sucessfully with letrozole but it took a good 4-5 months and sides were terrible. Didn't Get my sex drive back for a good year!!!!


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## mmichael

Ur looking into a weaker substance to reverse Gyno if that is ur prime goal.

I don't understand why people state that AI's reverse gyno...? AI's destroyed e2 in ur system and can help resolve a lot of issues during a cycle, but when it comes to fixing gyno the only prime things that work are: Surgery, Nolva, Ralox.

The point of running AI during a cycle is to keep e2 in check and not end up with gyno if you can. The point of PCT is to recover ur system back to normal by putting ur test back in good range and making sure that any e2 symptoms vanish such as gyno by using nolva. They are also used together because they are synergistic and benefit one another.

Either way, Nolva should be used as a last resort to fix gyno because it reduces ur IGF1 by 25% during cycles, so ur taking a major loss to clear ur mess up. Ralox on the other hand is much more effective and can be used at a lower dosage and only reduces IGF1 by 2%. It's the best option u can get other than surgery. Look into it more. I've used the RUI Lab for ralox and it's good.


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## Mogadishu

mmichael said:


> Ur looking into a weaker substance to reverse Gyno if that is ur prime goal.
> 
> I don't understand why people state that AI's reverse gyno...? AI's destroyed e2 in ur system and can help resolve a lot of issues during a cycle, but when it comes to fixing gyno the only prime things that work are: Surgery, Nolva, Ralox.
> 
> The point of running AI during a cycle is to keep e2 in check and not end up with gyno if you can. The point of PCT is to recover ur system back to normal by putting ur test back in good range and making sure that any e2 symptoms vanish such as gyno by using nolva. They are also used together because they are synergistic and benefit one another.
> 
> Either way, Nolva should be used as a last resort to fix gyno because it reduces ur IGF1 by 25% during cycles, so ur taking a major loss to clear ur mess up. Ralox on the other hand is much more effective and can be used at a lower dosage and only reduces IGF1 by 2%. It's the best option u can get other than surgery. Look into it more. I've used the RUI Lab for ralox and it's good.


 Letro works but easy to crash e2 and concerning the nolva and igf you wont notice any difference, I've never heard anyone claim so either.


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## Sebbek

sitries said:


> I'v reversed it sucessfully with letrozole but it took a good 4-5 months and sides were terrible. Didn't Get my sex drive back for a good year!!!!


 That's why God created cialis lol

Best S


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## mmichael

Mogadishu said:


> Letro works but easy to crash e2 and concerning the nolva and igf you wont notice any difference, I've never heard anyone claim so either.


 I really don't feel like finding the study done btw Nolva VS Ralox right now, but it came down to the conclusion like i stated above. There is 100% evidence that using Nolva mid cycle will LOWER IGF1 BY 25% @ 20mg OR MORE. I'm not saying this from ego, I got the study from some 1 else on a diff forum and I was skeptical just like u before hand till I read it. I even posted this back on here a while back for a few members to read. If I recall seb above me was one of them.


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## 31205

FuqOutDaWhey said:


> Will have a look through mate, got pea size lump under each nip even on 25mg DH Aromasin. Have ordered an oestrogen check also


 DH aromasin is shite mate. Wildcat is best ugl aromasin I've used.


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## Nara

I'm assuming that this method only works for "new" gyno and not gyno that has been present for years?


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## ashmo

Nara said:


> I'm assuming that this method only works for "new" gyno and not gyno that has been present for years?


 Known to work on pubertal gynecomastia


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## Mogadishu

mmichael said:


> I really don't feel like finding the study done btw Nolva VS Ralox right now, but it came down to the conclusion like i stated above. There is 100% evidence that using Nolva mid cycle will LOWER IGF1 BY 25% @ 20mg OR MORE. I'm not saying this from ego, I got the study from some 1 else on a diff forum and I was skeptical just like u before hand till I read it. I even posted this back on here a while back for a few members to read. If I recall seb above me was one of them.


 The study is correct but does it mean you lose 25% of your gains? No way and ralox is better I agree but much more difficult getting hands on for most.



Nara said:


> I'm assuming that this method only works for "new" gyno and not gyno that has been present for years?


 Give it a try mate there're plenty of options before going to the doc. Might take longer but if money aint a problem I'd say go for it since its more or less impossible to get gyno after surgery.


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## Logman

25% reduction in IGF1 means what exactly? I want to address some gyno I've accumulated on my next 6 months cruise which will start mid-April. Can I do the 20mg ED for six months course on 200mg E10D and expect results and no huge losses in gains. I'll be cutting a bit and will certainly lose a bit as is normal.


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## Nara

Will I still need to do arimidex eod if I take nolva 20mg ed?


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## Mogadishu

Nara said:


> Will I still need to do arimidex eod if I take nolva 20mg ed?


 During cycle yes, your e2 will still skyhigh = Inc risk for gyno and thousands of other sides.


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## mmichael

Mogadishu said:


> The study is correct but does it mean you lose 25% of your gains? No way and ralox is better I agree but much more difficult getting hands on for most.
> 
> Give it a try mate there're plenty of options before going to the doc. Might take longer but if money aint a problem I'd say go for it since its more or less impossible to get gyno after surgery.


 Whatever it Means, basically put in simple terms: When U run a cycle, u want the MAX gains u can get out of it because u spent lots of time and effort in several ways to get the gear and put it into ur body and diet super hard ect... SO... why would u want to reduce ur IGF1 levels by 25% and lessen ur gains in any way, when u can run ralox by doing 2% which is basically zero change whatsoever...Just think about it logically. I'm just pointing this out so we all can get the most of what we put in...


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## 31205

Mogadishu said:


> The study is correct but does it mean you lose 25% of your gains? No way and ralox is better I agree but much more difficult getting hands on for most.
> 
> Give it a try mate there're plenty of options before going to the doc. Might take longer but if money aint a problem I'd say go for it since its more or less impossible to get gyno after surgery.


 Would there be any point doing it while on cycle and if not, would the reversal have a chance if you was using trt dose of test?


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## swole troll

sen said:


> Would there be any point doing it while on cycle and if not, would the reversal have a chance if you was using trt dose of test?


 Yes provided you are keeping your test levels within natural range

If you can get raloxifene it has a higher binding affinity to the breast site and subsequently a higher success rate in both reversing gyno and shrinking it's diameter more so than tamoxifen in those that don't completely reverse it (shrink the gland to near untraceable amounts, you will not completely remove the gland with anything other than surgery)


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## swole troll

It's also worth noting that the common tamoxifen studies brought up (I've not read the op's) are for 20mg for 6 months where as raloxifene only needs to be ran for 3 months at 60mg

You'll want to run calcium and vitamin d supplementation throughout either serm therapy as they can have a negative impact on bone density especially when ran for prolonged periods of time

In serious gyno cases I'd suggest 2.5mg letrozole ed ran for 2-4 weeks followed by 2 weeks 1.25mg for 2 weeks all whilst running 60mg of raloxifene ed for the duration of the letrozole and then a further 2 months

This is only as a very last measure before surgery and some may even prefer just to opt for surgery as letrozole is a rough ride but imo the above protocol is the most effective non surgical approach to removing gyno, of course some people will not require this drastic of an approach


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## swole troll

*
Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
*

Lawrence SE1, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.

*
Author information
*

*
Abstract
*

*
OBJECTIVES:
*

To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifen in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

*
STUDY DESIGN:
*

Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

*
RESULTS:
*

Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

*
CONCLUSION:
*

Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.


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## Mogadishu

mmichael said:


> Whatever it Means, basically put in simple terms: When U run a cycle, u want the MAX gains u can get out of it because u spent lots of time and effort in several ways to get the gear and put it into ur body and diet super hard ect... SO... why would u want to reduce ur IGF1 levels by 25% and lessen ur gains in any way, when u can run ralox by doing 2% which is basically zero change whatsoever...Just think about it logically. I'm just pointing this out so we all can get the most of what we put in...


 I still believe its blown out of proportion. I've never read or heard anyone suffer either. Ralox might be better but not as easy to come by as nolva. Its not all about the numbers either, practically observation is also important.


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## 31205

swole troll said:


> Yes provided you are keeping your test levels within natural range
> 
> If you can get raloxifene it has a higher binding affinity to the breast site and subsequently a higher success rate in both reversing gyno and shrinking it's diameter more so than tamoxifen in those that don't completely reverse it (shrink the gland to near untraceable amounts, you will not completely remove the gland with anything other than surgery)


 I'll have a look for it mate, thanks.


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## sitries

From my experience to completely rid yourself of the fibrous tissue from gyno which can be like a spiders web and goes a lot deeper than the more prominent lumps would need to run letrozole for longer than 2-4 weeks. 4-6months more like!


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## LIGHTWEIGHT BAB

Nostaw said:


> After reading this study it baffles me that on this forum and all others I visit when it comes to gyno reversal the only two solutions I see posted are letro or surgery
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18357357
> 
> the important bit: "At six months gynecomastia disappeared in 26 patients (62%)" - that's at 20mg per day
> 
> according to that study, long-term tamoxifen is a perfectly fine solution when it comes to gyno reversal, plus it has no side effects and it's cheap... which is why im confused ive never seen anyone recommend it/people say it's impossible for nova to reverse gyno
> 
> Is there something im missing?
> 
> would appreciate your input
> 
> p.s. I tried letro for 60 days, didn't get any significant improvement. Now I'm considering long-term tamoxifen use.


 Yeah tamoxifen is what the NHS prescribed me for breast tissue development (gyno)


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## UlsterRugby

LIGHTWEIGHT BAB said:


> Yeah tamoxifen is what the NHS prescribed me for breast tissue development (gyno)


 at what dose and duration and was it successful?


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## Todai

I had seen that tamox could reverse years ago - and I have successfully reversed it myself also.
I had started on 40mg per day for 10 days then continued on 20 until gone. which was normally around 6-8 weeks
Worked for me but like you I come on here and everyone says you can't or it wasn't gyno etc despite my doc saying.


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## Mogadishu

infernow10 said:


> If you've been running deca or tren then you need Letro and nolva will only make it work because I will be due to prolactin gyno


 Gyno is gyno and its the same treatment.


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## swole troll

*ALL* gyno is caused by elevated oestrogen

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/262523-what-ancilleries-should-you-have-on-hand-while-using-tren/?do=embed


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## Bensif

infernow10 said:


> No it is not, tren and deca are 19 nor compounds that raise prolactin levels, which means you get a different type gyno compared to test or dbol, that is high estrogen gyno cause by estrogen binding to the receptors underneath the nipple, nolva van protect you from this, it cannot protect you from prolactin gyno. You nees Letro or caber.


 This is false.


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## Mogadishu

infernow10 said:


> No it is not, tren and deca are 19 nor compounds that raise prolactin levels, which means you get a different type gyno compared to test or dbol, that is high estrogen gyno cause by estrogen binding to the receptors underneath the nipple, nolva van protect you from this, it cannot protect you from prolactin gyno. You nees Letro or caber.


 Want some cheese with that broscience sir?


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## Mogadishu

infernow10 said:


> How is raised prolactin gyno br science? Sorry you're too dumb to respond


 And what does prolactin *need* to develope gyno? Let me give you a clue:


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## Sphinkter

infernow10 said:


> Will nolva deal with prolactin gyno ?
> 
> No
> 
> Will adex deal with prolactin gyno?
> 
> No
> 
> Will aromasin deal with prolactin gyno?
> 
> No
> 
> Will letrozole deal with prolactin gyno?
> 
> Yes
> 
> Will caber or prami deal with prolactin gyno?
> 
> Yes
> 
> So you are incorrect. Period.


 Why will letro deal with prolactin gyno but not adex or aromasin, they're all AIs?


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## swole troll

Sphinkter said:


> Why will letro deal with prolactin gyno but not adex or aromasin, they're all AIs?


 they all do the same job in the body except that exemstane is a suicide inhibitor but from a blood work perspective they all reduce E2 levels

all gyno is caused via raised oestrogen, there is no such thing as prolactin gyno

you can lactate if you have raised oestrogen plus raised prolactin however prolactin and progesterone are incapable of being the sole culprit of gynecomastia


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## Mogadishu

Sphinkter said:


> Why will letro deal with prolactin gyno but not adex or aromasin, they're all AIs?


 I'm sorry but this guy is so full of s**t its almost funny. "Prolacin-gyno" or raised levels with 19nor alone are myths without no scientific or medical support whatsoever. It's the Test/aromatase AAS/estrogen that create gyno thats why you should always use an ai during cycle + SERM(if you are very sensitive).


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## scouser85

swole troll said:


> they all do the same job in the body except that exemstane is a suicide inhibitor but from a blood work perspective they all reduce E2 levels
> 
> all gyno is caused via raised oestrogen, there is no such thing as prolactin gyno
> 
> you can lactate if you have raised oestrogen plus raised prolactin however prolactin and progesterone are incapable of being the sole culprit of gynecomastia


 Do not listen to a word this ****in tool says

i can tell who he is from his shite profile pic iv seen him in a few groups tryin to off load his s**t or altogether fake gear


----------



## Sphinkter

swole troll said:


> they all do the same job in the body except that exemstane is a suicide inhibitor but from a blood work perspective they all reduce E2 levels
> 
> all gyno is caused via raised oestrogen, there is no such thing as prolactin gyno
> 
> you can lactate if you have raised oestrogen plus raised prolactin however prolactin and progesterone are incapable of being the sole culprit of gynecomastia


 I know I was just questioning @infernow10's logic as he's saying letro will deal with so called prolactin gyno but other the AIs won't?

must say I did read a while ago about tren and deca raising progesterone/prolactin and causing gyno by a some other none estro related means, and that caver should be taken to combat this but I have since read this is a myth.

Would be interesting to know where it came from and why it has been perpetuated?


----------



## swole troll

Sphinkter said:


> I know I was just questioning @infernow10's logic as he's saying letro will deal with so called prolactin gyno but other the AIs won't?
> 
> must say I did read a while ago about tren and deca raising progesterone/prolactin and causing gyno by a some other none estro related means, and that caver should be taken to combat this but I have since read this is a myth.
> 
> Would be interesting to know where it came from and why it has been perpetuated?


 its the combination of elevated oestrogen and prolactin that leads people to believe that their gyno is purely prolactin based (often because of lactating nipples)

part of the reason people dont pin it to oestrogen when they start getting leaky nipples is because they may still be using their 'substantial dose of AI' that they always use on X amount of test however because they merely have gone by sides in the past (namely their lack of gyno) they probably havnt bothered getting blood work to confirm that their self prescribed dosing of AI with X amount of test is keeping oestrogen within range

not everyone develops gyno the moment their oestrogen is out of range so with the above scenario our example has always used a certain dose of AI, never had gyno or elevated E2 sides therefore concludes that he has found the sweet spot but then when prolactin is elevated alongside their out of range E2 (that doesnt pose sides on its own) they develop leaky, puffy, tender nipples and they therefore conclude that the gyno they have developed is "prolactin gyno"

when all along their E2 was out of range they just were not suffering sides from it until they also included a 19-nortestosterone

in which case if they did take a dopamine agonist they would prevent the raised prolactin and prevent the gyno even though their E2 would still be out of range but not effecting them as with previous cycles

the above further concretes their belief that there is such a thing as prolactin gyno


----------



## Bensif

infernow10 said:


> Why are you lying? Anyone can Google this information and obviously you have another motive lying like this. This is 100% true and I challenge anyone to bring fourth evidence against it.


 Sorry, are you accusing me of lying by suggesting your previous statement was false?

Other than forum science that you have come across using Google, are you able to provide real scientific evidence to backup your statement?

the reason you see people getting gyno in the absence of testosterone whilst using deca or tren for example, is usually hormone balance. Not prolactin. You take a suppressive steroid and your testosterone plummets relatively quickly. Oestrogen however takes far longer to leave your system.

Balance is everything when especially when it comes to gyno. You can get gyno with naturally low test due to the ratio of testosterone to oestrogen. This is exactly what happens with deca or tren. Sometimes there are other factors but prolactin cannot cause growth of the mammory gland.

My motive is simple, help and educate where possible, based on my own experiences and those who have passed on knowledge to me.

You honestly haven't a clue and you aren't helping anyone by parroting rubbish.


----------



## Sphinkter

swole troll said:


> its the combination of elevated oestrogen and prolactin that leads people to believe that their gyno is purely prolactin based (often because of lactating nipples)
> 
> part of the reason people dont pin it to oestrogen when they start getting leaky nipples is because they may still be using their 'substantial dose of AI' that they always use on X amount of test however because they merely have gone by sides in the past (namely their lack of gyno) they probably havnt bothered getting blood work to confirm that their self prescribed dosing of AI with X amount of test is keeping oestrogen within range
> 
> not everyone develops gyno the moment their oestrogen is out of range so with the above scenario our example has always used a certain dose of AI, never had gyno or elevated E2 sides therefore concludes that he has found the sweet spot but then when prolactin is elevated alongside their out of range E2 (that doesnt pose sides on its own) they develop leaky, puffy, tender nipples and they therefore conclude that the gyno they have developed is "prolactin gyno"
> 
> when all along their E2 was out of range they just were not suffering sides from it until they also included a 19-nortestosterone
> 
> in which case if they did take a dopamine agonist they would prevent the raised prolactin and prevent the gyno even though their E2 would still be out of range but not effecting them as with previous cycles
> 
> the above further concretes their belief that there is such a thing as prolactin gyno


 so prolactin on its own won't cause gyno but can exacerbate the problem if oestrogen is already too high.

what about when people talk about not using nolva to reverse gyno if running 19-nors, that it can actually make it worse?

is this something to do with the prolactin already exerting its effect on the breast tissue, so that it can't just be reversed with SERM and you'd have to combat the prolactin first, either with caber or dropping whatever compound was causing the rise in it?

cheers


----------



## Mogadishu

Its a myth. Nolva will always WORK but you need to control e2.


----------



## Frandeman

Mogadishu said:


> Its a myth. Nolva will always WORK but you need to control e2.


 Novaldex

40mg or 20mg a day plenty?


----------



## Mogadishu

Frandeman said:


> Novaldex
> 
> 40mg or 20mg a day plenty?


 40 first week then 20 until its gone(if you're lucky). Ralox works better but diff dosage.

If you are prone then ai+serm during almost any cycle.

This is what happens when ppl give advice like : "Have it on hand if needed" but then its to late, hormonal imbalance will always affect you even if you wont notice. Its a build up process and I prefer controlled estrogen during cycle than gyno etc etc.


----------



## swole troll

Sphinkter said:


> so prolactin on its own won't cause gyno but can exacerbate the problem if oestrogen is already too high.
> 
> what about when people talk about not using nolva to reverse gyno if running 19-nors, that it can actually make it worse?
> 
> is this something to do with the prolactin already exerting its effect on the breast tissue, so that it can't just be reversed with SERM and you'd have to combat the prolactin first, either with caber or dropping whatever compound was causing the rise in it?
> 
> cheers


 in all scenarios your best bet is to drop to a trt dose of test only or better yet come off all together and then combat the gynecomastia

it becomes a decision of which is more important: a few extra lbs of muscle or ending your cycle early to tackle the gyno in its infancy and having the best possible chance of shrinking it to an unnoticeable amount

tamoxifen acts as an oestrogen agonist and antagonist as it does with the progesterone receptors and because of this interaction people wrongly associate it with purely agnosing (up regulating) the receptors in which case tamoxifen would exacerbate gyno in all circumstances which we know for well it does not

" Nolvadex acts as an Estrogen antagonist, meaning it will block the Estrogen receptor from allowing Estrogens to bind to it. The Progesterone receptor is in fact up-regulated in response to Estrogen. Therefore, when the Estrogen receptor is effectively blocked by Nolvadex in breast tissue, the Progesterone receptor will, as a result, down-regulate.

The problem herein lies in the fact that this does not occur in cancer patients, but it does in normal healthy humans. The origin of this myth, therefore, is that one particular study had demonstrated the fact that Nolvadex expressed up-regulation of the Progesterone receptor in the breast tissue of breast cancer patients[1]. The problem with the myth lies in the interpretation of the study: the subjects in the aforementioned study that experienced Progesterone receptor up-regulation were breast cancer patients, not healthy normal human subjects (and not male subjects either). Hormones and their receptor interactions exhibit drastically different behavior within those afflicted with breast cancers as opposed to normal healthy people. Cancers can cause anomalies in the body whereby the body will begin to exhibit very odd behavior and processes that are not ordinary (and often times the exact opposite) of normal human function, and this is a prime example.

If an individual exhibits gynecomastia as a result of Progestogenic 19-nor use (such as Deca Durabolin or Tren), it is perfectly fine and in fact recommended to utilize Nolvadex in order to mitigate the condition."


----------



## LIGHTWEIGHT BAB

UlsterRugby said:


> at what dose and duration and was it successful?


 I can't honestly remember the dosage! And no


----------



## flexzone

and why i got gyno only eating?

i killed a old gyno 2 years ago, now, im not using steroids (2 years ago).

I was traveling in AU for 15 days, eating fast food and the 10ºday, my right nipple started to pain , growing the tissue too.

Im on 20mg Nolva ED.

Estrogens up for eat ? awesome ... im really angry.


----------



## gynokidd

Hey guys sorry to revive such an old thread. Basically I wanted some advice. About 2 years ago I developed gyno under my left nipple, it became sensitive and I could feel a hard lump forming. I saw the doctor and got referred to a breast specialist who prescribed me tamoxifen (nolva). I was on the tamoxifen for about 2 months, after which my gyno had drastically reduced and there is no longer a hard lump. During this time period I did start to feel my right side developing gyno as well, it was sensitive and a small lump started to form however it completely resolved itself (probably because I was mid-tamoxifen) and looks absolutely fine now. The problem is on my left side (the side that was more developed before taking the tamoxifen and which was originally why I got on it). There is no hard lump or anything but my nipple has remained puffy ever since I came off the tamoxifen, and whilst it looks/feels a lot better, it's still not 100%. I know I'm an idiot for coming off the tamoxifen without the left nipple completely resolving but after two months I didn't really think anything more was going to happen, and the doctor also suggested I come off if I wasn't in any pain. If I press on the nipple now there is no pain or lump, but it feels like there's a soft-jelly like substance underneath, I'd strongly compare this to fat, but I'm just apprehensive that it really is fat seeing as I've had true gyno with a hard lump there previously, and my other nipple is perfectly fine.

Basically because this puffy nipple is so old I was wondering if there would be any benefits to getting on drugs again to see if I can rectify it, either tamoxifen, letrazole, or raloxifene. I'm sure I can get any of these prescribed by the doctor if I go see them and tell them the self-confidence issues I'm experiencing and the fact that I've had some success with tamoxifen in the past. This gyno wasn't steroid induced by the way, never taken anything. And seeing as it emerged at 18 after I was mainly done growing I doubt it's pubertal either. The one thing I can think of and which the doctor completely brought up on her own was potentially diet and the fact that I was being a lazy sod at university and eating KFC like 3x a week lol, likely because they pump the chickens full of estrogens it may have had an impact. Oh well who knows, important thing is the problem is here and I'm looking for alternatives before I consider surgery seeing as it's crazy expensive and I'd have to trade gyno for scars.

My left nipple basically looks similar to this: http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/muscular_male_fat_flap.html

Any help would be great and have a good day.


----------



## UlsterRugby

gynokidd said:


> Hey guys sorry to revive such an old thread. Basically I wanted some advice. About 2 years ago I developed gyno under my left nipple, it became sensitive and I could feel a hard lump forming. I saw the doctor and got referred to a breast specialist who prescribed me tamoxifen (nolva). I was on the tamoxifen for about 2 months, after which my gyno had drastically reduced and there is no longer a hard lump. During this time period I did start to feel my right side developing gyno as well, it was sensitive and a small lump started to form however it completely resolved itself (probably because I was mid-tamoxifen) and looks absolutely fine now. The problem is on my left side (the side that was more developed before taking the tamoxifen and which was originally why I got on it). There is no hard lump or anything but my nipple has remained puffy ever since I came off the tamoxifen, and whilst it looks/feels a lot better, it's still not 100%. I know I'm an idiot for coming off the tamoxifen without the left nipple completely resolving but after two months I didn't really think anything more was going to happen, and the doctor also suggested I come off if I wasn't in any pain. If I press on the nipple now there is no pain or lump, but it feels like there's a soft-jelly like substance underneath, I'd strongly compare this to fat, but I'm just apprehensive that it really is fat seeing as I've had true gyno with a hard lump there previously, and my other nipple is perfectly fine.
> 
> Basically because this puffy nipple is so old I was wondering if there would be any benefits to getting on drugs again to see if I can rectify it, either tamoxifen, letrazole, or raloxifene. I'm sure I can get any of these prescribed by the doctor if I go see them and tell them the self-confidence issues I'm experiencing and the fact that I've had some success with tamoxifen in the past. This gyno wasn't steroid induced by the way, never taken anything. And seeing as it emerged at 18 after I was mainly done growing I doubt it's pubertal either. The one thing I can think of and which the doctor completely brought up on her own was potentially diet and the fact that I was being a lazy sod at university and eating KFC like 3x a week lol, likely because they pump the chickens full of estrogens it may have had an impact. Oh well who knows, important thing is the problem is here and I'm looking for alternatives before I consider surgery seeing as it's crazy expensive and I'd have to trade gyno for scars.
> 
> My left nipple basically looks similar to this: http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/muscular_male_fat_flap.html
> 
> Any help would be great and have a good day.


 What dose and duration did you run initially


----------



## gynokidd

UlsterRugby said:


> What dose and duration did you run initially


 I was at 10mg for the entire duration, of just over 2 months. The breast specialist probably put me on such a low dose so that I didn't experience any of the side effects of the meds, which I can say I didn't.


----------



## UlsterRugby

gynokidd said:


> Hey guys sorry to revive such an old thread. Basically I wanted some advice. About 2 years ago I developed gyno under my left nipple, it became sensitive and I could feel a hard lump forming. I saw the doctor and got referred to a breast specialist who prescribed me tamoxifen (nolva). I was on the tamoxifen for about 2 months, after which my gyno had drastically reduced and there is no longer a hard lump. During this time period I did start to feel my right side developing gyno as well, it was sensitive and a small lump started to form however it completely resolved itself (probably because I was mid-tamoxifen) and looks absolutely fine now. The problem is on my left side (the side that was more developed before taking the tamoxifen and which was originally why I got on it). There is no hard lump or anything but my nipple has remained puffy ever since I came off the tamoxifen, and whilst it looks/feels a lot better, it's still not 100%. I know I'm an idiot for coming off the tamoxifen without the left nipple completely resolving but after two months I didn't really think anything more was going to happen, and the doctor also suggested I come off if I wasn't in any pain. If I press on the nipple now there is no pain or lump, but it feels like there's a soft-jelly like substance underneath, I'd strongly compare this to fat, but I'm just apprehensive that it really is fat seeing as I've had true gyno with a hard lump there previously, and my other nipple is perfectly fine.
> 
> Basically because this puffy nipple is so old I was wondering if there would be any benefits to getting on drugs again to see if I can rectify it, either tamoxifen, letrazole, or raloxifene. I'm sure I can get any of these prescribed by the doctor if I go see them and tell them the self-confidence issues I'm experiencing and the fact that I've had some success with tamoxifen in the past. This gyno wasn't steroid induced by the way, never taken anything. And seeing as it emerged at 18 after I was mainly done growing I doubt it's pubertal either. The one thing I can think of and which the doctor completely brought up on her own was potentially diet and the fact that I was being a lazy sod at university and eating KFC like 3x a week lol, likely because they pump the chickens full of estrogens it may have had an impact. Oh well who knows, important thing is the problem is here and I'm looking for alternatives before I consider surgery seeing as it's crazy expensive and I'd have to trade gyno for scars.
> 
> My left nipple basically looks similar to this: http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/muscular_male_fat_flap.html
> 
> Any help would be great and have a good day.


 At 10mg did you get no sides at all? My nipples are puffy but no lumps I'm thinking of trying 30 days at 20mg each day to see if I can get the puffiness to go


----------



## gynokidd

UlsterRugby said:


> At 10mg did you get no sides at all? My nipples are puffy but no lumps I'm thinking of trying 30 days at 20mg each day to see if I can get the puffiness to go


 Yeah no sides that I noticed, if you end up going ahead with it please keep me posted on how it goes.


----------



## Levifoster

I have just been prescribed tamoxifen from the breast clinic and they have put me on 20mg ED for 3 months to hopefully reduce gyno in my left nip which iv had for the last year. I started to get symptoms roughly 2 and half years after my last course, touch wood it isn't to noticeable but its the pain that is annoying I find.


----------



## UlsterRugby

gynokidd said:


> Yeah no sides that I noticed, if you end up going ahead with it please keep me posted on how it goes.


 I started yest at 40mg. I'm going to run 40mg for 5-7 days then continue for whatever length needed at 20mg per day. I'm still crusing on 175mg test as normal. Just need rid of the gyno which I'm lucky is only puffy nipples not hard lumps


----------



## never-say-never

I'm a living proof of reversing gyno using Nolva....


----------



## UlsterRugby

never-say-never said:


> I'm a living proof of reversing gyno using Nolva....


 what did you do

I have puffy nips now but no real lumps. I started 40mg yest and plan 40mg for approx 5 days then 20mg for whatever length of time it takes to get rid of it. Im currently cruising on 175mg test and will cruise untill gyno is sorted


----------



## never-say-never

UlsterRugby said:


> what did you do
> 
> I have puffy nips now but no real lumps. I started 40mg yest and plan 40mg for approx 5 days then 20mg for whatever length of time it takes to get rid of it. Im currently cruising on 175mg test and will cruise untill gyno is sorted


 just did 20mg for 6 weeks


----------



## UlsterRugby

never-say-never said:


> just did 20mg for 6 weeks


 were you on anything else at the time? I did you find your sex drive on 20mg for 6 weeks? Did you have lumps or just puffy nips


----------



## never-say-never

UlsterRugby said:


> were you on anything else at the time? I did you find your sex drive on 20mg for 6 weeks? Did you have lumps or just puffy nips


 yes, I was on super rip... my sex drive wasn't bad mate.... in fact my other half was commenting on it but i think it was only because of the super rip.. lol

I had 2 lumps under 1 of my nips... one was bigger than the other one...


----------



## UlsterRugby

never-say-never said:


> yes, I was on super rip... my sex drive wasn't bad mate.... in fact my other half was commenting on it but i think it was only because of the super rip.. lol
> 
> I had 2 lumps under 1 of my nips... one was bigger than the other one...


 did you get it from tren or test ?

Im crusing now on 175mg test but will blasting on 750mg test and 400mg mast soon. I will try nolva for 4 weeks first to sort the gyno out


----------



## never-say-never

UlsterRugby said:


> did you get it from tren or test ?
> 
> Im crusing now on 175mg test but will blasting on 750mg test and 400mg mast soon. I will try nolva for 4 weeks first to sort the gyno out


 I got it from pro-hormones.

yes, try to sort out the gyno and get it under control before blasting. Nolva is magical.. I had my lumps for over 2 years and they were as hard as anything.. 2 hard lumps and at times painful.. I was even considering to go to another country to have a surgery... but Nolva sorted it out.


----------



## arcticfox

I have a lump that flared up about the size of a pea, 2 weeks of Nolva and E2 control @ .5 ever 3 days and lump gone and been fine since


----------



## Jayph

Am waiting for apointment at breast clinic for a lump behind my right nipple for the lads that went to breast clinic did you disclose your aas use


----------



## Fina

I'm afraid I haven't actually read this thread, however I am on 20mg Nolva per day currently, to reverse gyno from my last cycle. Only time I've ever got it, and this time it came up quite bad, bit gutting as I thought I wasn't susceptible!


----------



## IGotTekkers

ShaneB said:


> Will the cost of a short course of Letro be cheaper than the cost of 6 months of Nolva?


 Well I have some shocking gyno been on letro for 4 days now and it's already alot better! The pain and fleshyness is reduced alot. I reckon 2 weeks n it will be gone.

This isn't from puberty but 4 years of on off gear use with no Ai or pct ever, apart from 2 weeks,of clomid that stopped me eating meat.


----------



## swole troll

raloxifene is the superior serm in regard to gyno shrinkage

NONE of you have 'got rid' of your gyno with serm therapy

the best you can do after having developed a gland is shrink it

the only way of getting rid of it is surgery


----------



## ScottishHero22

Gyno will unfortunately always flare up, usually just the puffiness and it will retract when back on trt or off cycle. I've got it I live with it, I may have surgery 1 day but next time your out swimming with the kids or your mates or in the gym pool look around at all the men 30+ they all have tits so they will be looking at you thinking I wish I had their physique, don't compare yourselves to elite people compare yourself to normal regular guys then a little puffy nip won't matter. Counselling session over, oh and tamoxifen can shrink gland to next to nothing I do it every year.


----------



## ScottishHero22

IGotTekkers said:


> Well I have some shocking gyno been on letro for 4 days now and it's already alot better! The pain and fleshyness is reduced alot. I reckon 2 weeks n it will be gone.
> 
> This isn't from puberty but 4 years of on off gear use with no Ai or pct ever, apart from 2 weeks,of clomid that stopped me eating meat.


 Any photos?


----------



## UlsterRugby

RoidsR-us said:


> Gyno will unfortunately always flare up, usually just the puffiness and it will retract when back on trt or off cycle. I've got it I live with it, I may have surgery 1 day but next time your out swimming with the kids or your mates or in the gym pool look around at all the men 30+ they all have tits so they will be looking at you thinking I wish I had their physique, don't compare yourselves to elite people compare yourself to normal regular guys then a little puffy nip won't matter. Counselling session over, oh and tamoxifen can shrink gland to next to nothing I do it every year.


 You say you do it every year. How come and for how long? I'm on trt now and currenlty 40mg nolva per day since Monday going to drop down to 20mg per day from tomorrow and run for a few weeks. I have no lumps just puffy nips

I'm looking for them to go back to normal before blasting on 750mg test 400mg mast and some winny


----------



## ScottishHero22

UlsterRugby said:


> You say you do it every year. How come and for how long? I'm on trt now and currenlty 40mg nolva per day since Monday going to drop down to 20mg per day from tomorrow and run for a few weeks. I have no lumps just puffy nips
> 
> I'm looking for them to go back to normal before blasting on 750mg test 400mg mast and some winny


 I've got lump, always worse in summer, run nolva while on trt but I do month of Adex first shut my e2 down, run caber low dose so can still get hardon lol. Will run nolva now Til I do my bulk, mine tends flare up mostly on tren not so bad on test or test oral but tren makes me really puffy. You sure yours is gyno?


----------



## UlsterRugby

RoidsR-us said:


> I've got lump, always worse in summer, run nolva while on trt but I do month of Adex first shut my e2 down, run caber low dose so can still get hardon lol. Will run nolva now Til I do my bulk, mine tends flare up mostly on tren not so bad on test or test oral but tren makes me really puffy. You sure yours is gyno?


 I'm not sure mate. Just made me so paranoid. I finished a test tren oxy cycle and my nips wer puffy and slightly sore to press and felt a bit of a lump behind so I came off 4 weeks early and started to cruise on 175mg test only.

Even since dropping tren and oxy and test down to 175mg per week they are better and nolva since Monday seems to help.

My left nipple is more puffy and hangs down. It's really noticeable for me when I flex and tense my chest.

Just thought about nolva for 2-4 weeks while crusing to get nipple to normal then run 400mg mast 750mg test and 50mg winny and see how I get on. Maybe it was the tren.


----------



## ScottishHero22

UlsterRugby said:


> I'm not sure mate. Just made me so paranoid. I finished a test tren oxy cycle and my nips wer puffy and slightly sore to press and felt a bit of a lump behind so I came off 4 weeks early and started to cruise on 175mg test only.
> 
> Even since dropping tren and oxy and test down to 175mg per week they are better and nolva since Monday seems to help.
> 
> My left nipple is more puffy and hangs down. It's really noticeable for me when I flex and tense my chest.
> 
> Just thought about nolva for 2-4 weeks while crusing to get nipple to normal then run 400mg mast 750mg test and 50mg winny and see how I get on. Maybe it was the tren.


 Get some caber it will help, well it did for me with puffiness, does it look like a crease? If you really wanna make sure run aromasin with nolva and caber, crash your e2 with aromasin for 2-3 weeks


----------



## 31205

UlsterRugby said:


> You say you do it every year. How come and for how long? I'm on trt now and currenlty 40mg nolva per day since Monday going to drop down to 20mg per day from tomorrow and run for a few weeks. I have no lumps just puffy nips
> 
> I'm looking for them to go back to normal before blasting on 750mg test 400mg mast and some winny


 If there's no lump it should be easy to get rid. Are they itchy or have they been when they first appeared?


----------



## 31205

swole troll said:


> raloxifene is the superior serm in regard to gyno shrinkage
> 
> NONE of you have 'got rid' of your gyno with serm therapy
> 
> the best you can do after having developed a gland is shrink it
> 
> the only way of getting rid of it is surgery


 This is my thinking. I have hard lumps. Have done since 2004 ish. Used to grow and shrink when on and off gear. Now the lumps pretty much just stay as they are and I've tried months of letro with no joy. Sure that study posted at the start of the thread says nolva is especially effective at reversing lump gyno which I just don't believe.


----------



## ScottishHero22

sen said:


> This is my thinking. I have hard lumps. Have done since 2004 ish. Used to grow and shrink when on and off gear. Now the lumps pretty much just stay as they are and I've tried months of letro with no joy. Sure that study posted at the start of the thread says nolva is especially effective at reversing lump gyno which I just don't believe.


 Apparently according to guy at breast clinic, nolva does nothing for gyno. I asked him what evidence he has to back that up he said if you give a woman nolvadex her breast doesn't disappear you have a breast it's same thing lol


----------



## 31205

RoidsR-us said:


> Apparently according to guy at breast clinic, nolva does nothing for gyno. I asked him what evidence he has to back that up he said if you give a woman nolvadex her breast doesn't disappear you have a breast it's same thing lol


 Haha spot on!


----------



## ScottishHero22

sen said:


> Haha spot on!


 He nearly got 2 black eyes for that comment lol


----------



## swole troll

sen said:


> This is my thinking. I have hard lumps. Have done since 2004 ish. Used to grow and shrink when on and off gear. Now the lumps pretty much just stay as they are and I've tried months of letro with no joy. Sure that study posted at the start of the thread says nolva is especially effective at reversing lump gyno which I just don't believe.


 order of effectiveness in the shrinkage of gynecomastia

1. Femara at 2.5mg ED for 4-6 weeks

2. Raloxifene at 60mg ED for 2 weeks then titrate up to 100mg for 12 weeks

3. Tamoxifen at 20mg ED for 6 weeks

4. Exemestane or Anastrazole at 25mg and 1mg respectively ED for 6-8 weeks although it is of my opinion that if you are going the AI route then Femara is far supreme to either of these to compounds in the shrinkage of gyno

the best you can hope to achieve with any of the above is shrinkage to trace amount

you will *NOT* completely remove the gland without surgery


----------



## MrBigorexia

An interesting read for those who still believe gyno is only about oestrogen:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/781998-Review-Gynecomastia-Causes


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## IGotTekkers

RoidsR-us said:


> Any photos?


 No mate


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## ScottishHero22

IGotTekkers said:


> No mate


 Embrace it, I look at mine as permanent gains, the grow every cycle lol


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## IGotTekkers

RoidsR-us said:


> Embrace it, I look at mine as permanent gains, the grow every cycle lol


 It does my nut mate, points out my tshirts making me look utter crap, and the pain when walking down stairs when it jigs up and down fml


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## ScottishHero22

IGotTekkers said:


> It does my nut mate, points out my tshirts making me look utter crap, and the pain when walking down stairs when it jigs up and down fml


 Both nipples or 1? Get on nolva for few months


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## IGotTekkers

RoidsR-us said:


> Both nipples or 1? Get on nolva for few months


 Both but left is worse by far. I'm on.the letro mate f**k nolva, I ain't bringing no knife to this gunfight!


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## ScottishHero22

IGotTekkers said:


> Both but left is worse by far. I'm on.the letro mate f**k nolva, I ain't bringing no knife to this gunfight!


 Haha you need it when you come off letro for 2 weeks, post some pics up I show you mine now it's almost gone with Adex for few weeks now nolva to finish it off


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## IGotTekkers

RoidsR-us said:


> Haha you need it when you come off letro for 2 weeks, post some pics up I show you mine now it's almost gone with Adex for few weeks now nolva to finish it off


 Can't mate for some reason there's nit enough memory on my phone nomatter how much I delete, it's f**ked.


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## ScottishHero22

IGotTekkers said:


> Both but left is worse by far. I'm on.the letro mate f**k nolva, I ain't bringing no knife to this gunfight!


 That nipple was like a cone 2 months ago, there's still small lump but the cone shape gone now. Will prob go fleshy again on blast but that's life


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## CarlFit

My gyno is 100% gone with Letro at 2.5mg, including the tissue, yes I felt like s**t and still do but it was worth it

Nolva did nothing for me at 20mg for 6 weeks.


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## Logman

Gyno flared up pretty bad last blast. Ran Aromasin but teh flare up was worse than normal. Been on 20mg Nolva for 8 weeks and have been cruising for that time too. I really feel that Nolva has affected my libido somewhat because even on 200mg E10D it's not where it was at last cruise. Anyhow, the gyno is certainly improved but not gone. Definitely not as noticeable but it probably wasn't that noticeable anyhow. On high test my nips tend to stand hard 24/7 lol, which accentuates things.


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## Jayph

alright lads i posted couple off weeks ago regarding lump .today i went breast clinic and seen some one had ultrasound scan and he checked the area he did ask about any drug use ect i told him but once results come back he dint seem to think it was gyno so his ran a hormone test and liver function so should fine out soon as i noticed mine off cycle


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## Joeheman

You can't reverse gyno once you have it the best you can do is shrink it but lower your body fat the more you'll see it.

How you shrink it will depend on what is the cause estrogen or progesterone. Mine see DP was there slightly since teenage years but the nor9 steroids reeked havoc on it by causing a progesterone imbalance, I can take all letro I want and would only mildly shrink it. Had to use prami or caber to make it reduce noticeably. Just went and got the surgery last October 3 friends have now gone to same surgeon after now. Can't recommend it enough saves you having to hammer immune system, sex by crashing estrogen and or progesterone to shrink each flare up.


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