# Skipping breakfast helps cut fact or fiction ???



## AndyW90 (Jan 18, 2013)

I have grown up being told that breakfast is the most important meal of the day as "it kick Starts yout metabolism"

Now after reading this forum I have heard of people skipping ?

Please give me some advice on this... Anything will help !!!


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

it doesn't speed up your metabolism and skipping it doesn't help you cut. your total calorie intake will dictate weather or not you lose weight


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

The only thing breakfast does is make it easier to eat the rest of the day. Up till I started training I was skinny as a mother****er and I NEVER ate breakfast


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## ocedar (Feb 10, 2013)

People advocating to skip breakfast call that "intermittent fasting".

It's a very valid method to lose fat & gain muscle, you can read more there: http://examine.com/leangains-faq/


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Well yea.. If you cut out one meal of the day you'll be eating less and the chances are you'll be in a deficit!


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## sined (May 21, 2011)

Can't remember where I read it but pretty sure it was one of the more knowledgable people on here.But they said that for the first couple of hours after waking the body is still in a fat burning state, and eating gives the body fuel to use instead of burning fat for fuel.


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

sined said:


> Can't remember where I read it but pretty sure it was one of the more knowledgable people on here.But they said that for the first couple of hours after waking the body is still in a fat burning state, and eating gives the body fuel to use instead of burning fat for fuel.


Yeah that's the start of the day for Carb Backloading. Have a black coffee to increase lipolysis slightly and to curb hunger. Or just a caffeine tablet and will power if you don't like coffee like me lol


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

Our bodies are always in a fat burning state, and a fat creating state. A deficit just means the ratio will be in favor of weight loss by the end of the day.


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

DaveW3000 said:


> Our bodies are always in a fat burning state, and a fat creating state. A deficit just means the ratio will be in favor of weight loss by the end of the day.


Not technically true. With the presence of insulin and raised blood sugar levels, the "fat burning state" is non existent, and as such turns to a storage state.


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## Mish (May 1, 2011)

sined said:


> Can't remember where I read it but pretty sure it was one of the more knowledgable people on here.But they said that for the first couple of hours after waking the body is still in a fat burning state, and eating gives the body fuel to use instead of burning fat for fuel.


Yeah this came from the horse's mouth, Pscarb


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## sined (May 21, 2011)

Thought that's who it was but didn't want to say just incase I was wrong.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

engllishboy said:


> Not technically true. With the presence of insulin and raised blood sugar levels, the "fat burning state" is non existent, and as such turns to a storage state.


I see your point but in a deficit it would never truly stop with the calorie balance in favor of fat loss, Also worth noting there are other hormones that also control fat storage and its little known that a good amount of our stored body fat didn't get there because of insulin.


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

In my opinion breakfast is vital for losing weight. If you have a good nights sleep and then eat a 'brunch' at 12 you risk your body being in a starvation/survival mode and it may want to store whatever it can as fat incase there are more long delays in eating.

Why not do a 20-30 min fasted cardio in the morning and then have a healthy breakfast. Best of both worlds.....burn fat as a result of depleted glycogen stores and then refuel after.


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

I remember reading @Pscarb 's posts about the enhanced fat burning state by fasting for slightly longer, since food of any sort will stop it. And it's worth taking advantage of.

I do it on a Bulk now to see if it helps keep me leaner. Still consuming enough calories to grow. But thought I'd give it a shot for a while and see what happens.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

Zola said:


> In my opinion breakfast is vital for losing weight. If you have a good nights sleep and then eat a 'brunch' at 12 you risk your body being in a starvation/survival mode and it may want to store whatever it can as fat incase there are more long delays in eating.
> 
> Why not do a 20-30 min fasted cardio in the morning and then have a healthy breakfast. Best of both worlds.....burn fat as a result of depleted glycogen stores and then refuel after.


Net calorie deficit is vital for loosing weight, our bodies tend to burn more fat in a fasted state but as a result our bodies up-regulate de novo lipogenesis in eating window. This means it still comes down to net calorie intake!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Zola said:


> In my opinion breakfast is vital for losing weight. If you have a good nights sleep and then eat a 'brunch' at 12 you risk your body being in a starvation/survival mode and it may want to store whatever it can as fat incase there are more long delays in eating.


This nonsense from both a logical and biological point of view.

How much glycogen do you think you use in your sleep? Unless you do a sleep marathon and then like a marathon for breakfast (and I'm not talking snickers). Your body has plenty of field for at least a day before it has to resort to catabolism. If a 'starvation mode' kicked in at lunch time humans wouldn't have made it this fat.

Survival mode? After 12 hours? Please. Just think about it?

Also say breakfast does increase your metabolism. How much do you think it does? Clenbutarol, a banned and potent fat burner only increases it by around 5%.

If breakfast had 'magic' abilities to raise it by 10% on a 3k calorie maintenance that is 300 calories.

How many calories is your breakfast?


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course net calories are a huge factor. The type of calories is equally as important in my view.


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> This nonsense from both a logical and biological point of view.
> 
> How much glycogen do you think you use in your sleep? Unless you do a sleep marathon and then like a marathon for breakfast (and I'm not talking snickers). Your body has plenty of field for at least a day before it has to resort to catabolism. If a 'starvation mode' kicked in at lunch time humans wouldn't have made it this fat.
> 
> ...


Depends on the exercise and when its done. I typically exercise at night, so in the morning ill have less than someone who does not.

There's been many studies that show those who skip breakfast are usually those who struggle with their weight and shape, but I really couldn't be ****d arguing with you about it.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

A protein and fat meal can be more beneficial to fat burning rather that introducing carbs and creating an insulin spike for breakfast


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## andyfrance001 (Jan 11, 2011)

A lot of guys competing that i know including myself do this, 530 am get up, 5g l-glutamine BCAA, cup of coffee, 630am hit the gym for half hour cardio, then muscle bodypart x2, 8:00am oats and protein shake. So from getting up at 530 the first meal is 2.5hrs later. Ive been losing 3lbs per week over past four weeks with dieting and find the no food till after gym works wonders.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)




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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Zola said:


> Depends on the exercise and when its done. I typically exercise at night, so in the morning ill have less than someone who does not.
> 
> There's been many studies that show those who skip breakfast are usually those who struggle with their weight and shape, but I really couldn't be ****d arguing with you about it.


1. Again. Unless its daily endurance sport. It wouldn't make a difference

2. Those studies (which I've seen) are non-scientific correlation studies that would fail to get someone good GCSE grades. Which are nullified by pointed to list of people who have succeeded with IF. All it shows is some people have diffident social behaviour.

3. Your attitude stinks. It's not arguing. It's debate. Unfortunately your views have no grounding so you stick your head in the sand and keep repeating your dogma to yourself rather than thinking reasonably.

Your views are no more factual than saying God exists because it says so in the bible.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

If interested as i still cant post vids, Check out Youtube - Icecreamfitness - and search on the channel page Insulin.

First vid should be 'Insulin good or bad for your physique getting around the confusion'

Very interesting vid that clears up some common misconceptions.

Let me know what you guys think.

Dave


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Your aruguments have been as baseless as mine. Whatever man. I gave my opinion you gave yours, move on.


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## jon1 (Jul 19, 2012)

if you follow the back carb loading program (cutting) you only drink small amounts of protein and fats (MCT) first thing in the morning. but also got to eat high carbs at 6pm (200g)

1st take amino acids only

2 nd meal isolate protein and coconut milk

3rd meal isolate protein and cocnut milk

didn't eat till dinner time.

i found this worked very well. lost 25llb of body fat in 10 weeks.

also used ECA when training focus was very good training on a empty stomach.

i don't agree not eating first thing in the morning as your body going to burn protein for energy. which means muscle. specially if your cutting


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

KISS

Yes it will help you lose weight if you don't replace the calories later in the day


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

xpower said:


> KISS
> 
> Yes it will help you lose weight if you don't replace the calories later in the day


Thats one point that I should have made clearer. ..if you skip breakfast you are more than likely going to over eat for at least one of your meals as you'll be so hungry.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

DaveW3000 said:


> Net calorie deficit is vital for loosing weight, our bodies tend to burn more fat in a fasted state but as a result our bodies up-regulate de novo lipogenesis in eating window. This means it still comes down to net calorie intake!


this is very true but if this was the only guide then what would be the point to drugs like Clen?? if you have 2 people eating the exact same diet with the same deficit in calories but one also took clen then that person would lose more weight, my point is it is not only about calories deficit.

when you wake from your nightly sleep you are in a natural fat burning state (this applies to everyone) when you eat any food that will raise Insulin this fat burning state ends, so logic dictates if you prolong this period say for 2hrs after you wake then you would have 2 more hours where your body is in this natural fat burning state......correct? i am not advocating missing a meal or dropping any calories only not to jump out of bed and stuff ya face.......


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Zola said:


> Depends on the exercise and when its done. I typically exercise at night, so in the morning ill have less than someone who does not.
> 
> There's been many studies that show those who skip breakfast are usually those who struggle with their weight and shape, *but I really couldn't be ****d arguing with you about it*.


why do you feel this is an argument? this is a forum for debate and by this there will be many different opinions on many subjects....i don't understand why you would enter into a debate but not want to prove your point...

as for studies they can be found for pretty much everything how they are/can be applied into the real world is what matters...


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> why do you feel this is an argument? this is a forum for debate and by this there will be many different opinions on many subjects....i don't understand why you would enter into a debate but not want to prove your point...
> 
> as for studies they can be found for pretty much everything how they are/can be applied into the real world is what matters...


The manner in which he replied to me in both posts came across as a bit ****y and to me was not worth the effort.


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

DaveW3000 said:


> I see your point but in a deficit it would never truly stop with the calorie balance in favor of fat loss, Also worth noting there are other hormones that also control fat storage and its little known that a good amount of our stored body fat didn't get there because of insulin.


This is true, overall calorie intake will determine weight loss or gain. It's all about optimising though.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Zola said:


> The manner in which he replied to me in both posts came across as a bit ****y and to me was not worth the effort.


sorry but he disagreed with you that is all i don't see a bad tone?? but still prove your point put it across don't stop and throw your toys out the pram..........(this post was said in a tone not effected by emotion i have no bias either way  )



engllishboy said:


> This is true, overall calorie intake will determine weight loss or gain. It's all about optimising though.


whilst i agree what the calories are made up of will effect how the body uses them and what amount of energy it would take to eat/digest them this has a huge effect......


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> sorry but he disagreed with you that is all i don't see a bad tone?? but still prove your point put it across don't stop and throw your toys out the pram..........(this post was said in a tone not effected by emotion i have no bias either way  )
> 
> whilst i agree what the calories are made up of will effect how the body uses them and what amount of energy it would take to eat/digest them this has a huge effect......


I was merely stating my opinion, as did he. Im not gonna go look up a bunch studies etc. Just gave my 2 cents for whatever its worth. People cant believe what they like 

I was up running at 6 this morning so I am maybe a little cranky


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Have a bullet proof coffee upon waking... then eat a couple of hours later. Get some fasted training in if possible.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> this is very true but if this was the only guide then what would be the point to drugs like Clen?? if you have 2 people eating the exact same diet with the same deficit in calories but one also took clen then that person would lose more weight, my point is it is not only about calories deficit.
> 
> when you wake from your nightly sleep you are in a natural fat burning state (this applies to everyone) when you eat any food that will raise Insulin this fat burning state ends, so logic dictates if you prolong this period say for 2hrs after you wake then you would have 2 more hours where your body is in this natural fat burning state......correct? i am not advocating missing a meal or dropping any calories only not to jump out of bed and stuff ya face.......


Personally i have no experience with clen but from what i have read my understanding is that it essentially raises your maintenance calories thereby giving you a further deficit without the need to restrict more calories. I appreciate this may be inaccurate but as i said i have little experience with clen and alike.

I would be inclined to disagree that the presents of insulin entirely shuts down fat oxidization. I believe it to be less of and on/off switch and more of a dimmer, just changing relevant to food intake.

The vid i recommended is very interesting and id like to hear your opinion on it if you have time to watch it.

Thanks

Dave


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

engllishboy said:


> This is true, overall calorie intake will determine weight loss or gain. It's all about optimising though.


I agree it is all about optimizing, but i often see people spending a huge percentage of there time on miner details that generally account for a small portion of progress!

Dave


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Zola said:


> Your aruguments have been as baseless as mine. Whatever man. I gave my opinion you gave yours, move on.


where is it baseless?

I gave you a mathematical example of how irrational it is. You made a foundation-less claim on conjecture and back out when confronted.

Here is some easily digested science for you

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3248697/

an average person with less muscle mass than you and I can store 2500 cals worth of glycogen.

Assuming that the person eats at maintenance and isn't in a deficits when you include food still being digested you are talking upwards of 4K calories of unused energy in the body to last you through the night and until lunch.

Just looking at gycogen alone you are looking at close to 36-48 hours before there is any risk of catabolism is even a concern. But even then this is also negating fat stores and in absence of of carbohydrate sources fat oxidation is increased so this is extended further


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

DaveW3000 said:


> Personally i have no experience with clen but from what i have read my understanding is that it essentially raises your maintenance calories thereby giving you a further deficit without the need to restrict more calories. I appreciate this may be inaccurate but as i said i have little experience with clen and alike.
> 
> I would be inclined to disagree that the presents of insulin entirely shuts down fat oxidization. I believe it to be less of and on/off switch and more of a dimmer, just changing relevant to food intake.
> 
> ...


my point with clen was that there are things that can be done to increase/decrease the plain old saying of calorie deficit being the only factor, i have watched some of the video and to be fair it is a video based on his opinion there are facts in there and i agree with a lot of what he says concerning insulin and being more than just a storage hormone but i have not finished watching it.......

BUT the rise in insulin does stop fat burning this may not be a full stop and i apologies for giving that impression but it does lower it significantly, my point is that by doing this you are effectively not making the most of the natural fat burning state you wake in? plus to what end? what benefit does eating breakfast at 7am opposed to 9am for example give when you could have an increased amount of fat being burnt?

i used this method through 2011/12 and now this year and it does make a difference in the big picture when it comes to condition......

just to clarify though i am not advocating missing breakfast or dropping the meal just delaying eating in the morning when you first wake.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> my point with clen was that there are things that can be done to increase/decrease the plain old saying of calorie deficit being the only factor, i have watched some of the video and to be fair it is a video based on his opinion there are facts in there and i agree with a lot of what he says concerning insulin and being more than just a storage hormone but i have not finished watching it.......
> 
> BUT the rise in insulin does stop fat burning this may not be a full stop and i apologies for giving that impression but it does lower it significantly, my point is that by doing this you are effectively not making the most of the natural fat burning state you wake in? plus to what end? what benefit does eating breakfast at 7am opposed to 9am for example give when you could have an increased amount of fat being burnt?
> 
> ...


Fair enough, i think we are in agreement regarding most points. I'm unintentionally up for a while before breakfast so i suppose i'm inadvertently already getting that benefit. lol.

Its good to debate with someone with real knowledge and experience.

Its forum idiots that have made me refrain from getting involved until recently but its certainly a good way of keeping sharp on these topics of interest.

Cheers

Dave


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

It's also worth noting that when you are asleep, due to the low heart rate your body will chose fat over glycogen as an energy source. Hence what PScarb is saying about your body being in 'fat burning mode'


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## AndyW90 (Jan 18, 2013)

Thanks for all your help, I'm currently holding off eating until about 10 am, I'm just having sultana bran ATM

Working 1500 cals trying to drop 5 to 8 %

Weekends it's scrambled eggs and grilled bacon with the fat cat off !!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

There are numerous studies on the effects of breakfast vs skipping breakfast in obesity treatment published in the obesity and metabolism journals, and so it's a very well researched topic.

Results are equivocal, but the general association seems to be that in free living individuals (no rigidly organized structure to their daily diet and activity) who skip breakfast there is a tendency for greater sensations of hunger later in the day and more habitual eating of junk food to compensate.

In respect of effects upon metabolism, yes, eating a meal after a fast will boost metabolic rate temporarily - this happens after every meal. It does however appear that food boosts metabolic rate independent of the eating pattern - eg; eating three meals per day at 8am, 1pm and 6pm will have the same effect upon metabolism overall compared to eating only two larger meals say at 1pm and 7pm, or by eating meals at 8am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, 6pm and 9pm, provided in each condition the total amount and type of food is the same over the whole meal schedule. In each condition the metabolic effect of breakfast might be different when looked at in isolation from the other meals, but when all meals over 24 hours are considered any differences appear to become utterly non significant.

What does make a difference to the metabolic effect of breakfast is its macronutrient content - protein and and carbs (and alcohol) boost metabolism more than a high fat feeding where meals are calorie matched. The difference is significant but not enormously huge though, and is complicated by simultaneous differences in substrate oxidation - metabolic rate may go up with a large protein or carb meal, but that doesn't mean that the extra metabolic rate will burn calories from body fat, it can also take them from glycogen stores and muscle protein. Is worth noting that the substrate selection varies a lot between obese and lean individuals, and also between diabetics/insulin insensitive and those who are insulin sensitive.

In a nutshell there is no generalization to make on the topic of type of breakfast and its timing as some individuals will respond differently to each other depending upon a variety of health factors and differences in macros of the breakfast.


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

dtlv said:


> There are numerous studies on the effects of breakfast vs skipping breakfast in obesity treatment published in the obesity and metabolism journals, and so it's a very well researched topic.
> 
> Results are equivocal, but the general association seems to be that in free living individuals (no rigidly organized structure to their daily diet and activity) who skip breakfast there is a tendency for greater sensations of hunger later in the day and more habitual eating of junk food to compensate.
> 
> ...


Very interesting read!


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## Vytasx (Aug 1, 2013)

From my experience I can say that if you skip your breakfast you will fail all your day. For example of you are trying to build up some muscle you must eat breakfast and for those who are trying to lose weight, they have eat breakfast too because I know that if you don't eat breakfast you can even gain more weight.

And for me if I won't eat breakfast all day I'm feeling lazy and tired.

So I suggest eat regular breakfast and so on increase muscular strength and develop muscle mass.


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