# ECA - a comprehensive guide



## DiggyV

*ECA - Ephedrine Caffeine Asprin*

*
*

There are a lot of articles on UK-M on the obvious - ahem - 'supplementation' candidates (AAS, hGH, PCT, HCG etc), but not so many on the minor and yet still potentially as important supplements available to the bodybuilder or person just looking to improve in certain key areas. This post is based on very non-scientific research I have done, and also personal experience. I hope that it helps as a reference point for those people looking to use ECA for the first time, as well as those who have used it before, but not quite sure if they are getting the best out of it.

I have also now, for those interested completed a guide to other fat loss products! 

Yohimbine: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/150646-yohimbine-comprehensive-guide.html

Rauwolscine: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/155991-rauwolscine-alpha-yohimbine-comprehensive-guide.html

1,3 DimethylAmylAmine: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/156639-1-3-dimethylamylamine-comprehensive-guide.html

Synephrine: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/164458-synephrine-comprehensive-guide.html

Acacia Rigidula: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/217220-acacia-rigidula-comprehensive-guide.html

anyway back to business.

I'll give a brief overview of each of the constituent parts, how they work together and a breakdown of ECA stacks that are available out there on the market.

I hope it generates debate as there will be people out there with more experience I know, and any corrections or edits to this are very very welcome.

*Background to the Constituent Components*

*Ephedrine*

The scientific bit: Ephedrine indirectly promotes the release of norepinephrine at sympathetic synapses which activate alpha 1 and 2 receptors and to a lesser extent various beta receptors. THis gives you the characteristic buzz associated with Ephedrine.

Ephedrine is derived from plants of the Ephedra genus which are commonly called in various global cultures: Ma Huang (Chinese traditional), Jointfir, Joint-pine and Mormon-tea (USA), and sometimes Sea-Grape (Europe).

Ephedrine is used in conventional medicines as a decongestant, and is most commonly found in the over the counter (OTC) medicine Do-Dos Chest-Eze (more on this later)

In the USA Ephedrine is highly regulated. Purchasers may be asked for their names and addresses. Sales of Ephedrine based products are limited to 3.6g per day, and 9g per month. Strangely Ma Huang has been banned as an additive to any supplements, but is still allowed to be sold as a tea.

In the UK Ephedrine is classed as a P level substance, and as such can only be dispensed from a licensed pharmacy in the presence of a registered pharmacist.

Ephedra and its derivatives is on the IOC banned list, which is always a good sign. 

*Caffeine*

Probably the one of the three we think we know the most about. Think Red Bull, ProPlus, your daily cup of Joe. But here is a little more on the world's most common pick-me-up.

Caffeine is a central nervous system stimulant, and the most widely consumed. In the USA over 90% of all Americans consume caffeine everyday. It is present in both tea and coffee, along with many and varied soft and sparkling drinks.

Caffeine is found in a wide variety of plants, both in the main parts and seeds. These include: the cherries of the coffee plant and the leaves of the tea bush, kola nut (the original caffeine on Coca Cola), yerba maté, guarana berries, and yaupon holly. In nature it acts as a pesticide, disabling and killing certain insects that feed on it. There was a great study on the effects of various drugs on the ability of spiders to produce webs - the one for caffeine was most disturbing and genuinely worth a visit. (see more info here - http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm)

Caffeine has been shown to help athletic performance, endurance and recovery.

*Aspirin*

Aspirin, or to give its correct name Acetylsalicilc Acid is a non-steroidal anti inflammatory (NSAID), a group of pain relief medications which also includes Ibuprofen.

Aspirin was originally derived from the bark of the Willow tree and also the meadowsweet. It is used as a primary pain killer for headaches and migraines, however when compared to Ibuprofen is more toxic to the gastro-intestinal tract, and has been shown to cause ulcers when taken in high doses. Additionally aspirin in low doses is used by a growing number of people who have either recovered from heart attacks, or who are at risk of heart attack, as a preventative medicine. This is due to the effect it has on reducing the clotting action of platelets in the blood. Aspirin can also act as a vaso-dilator which counteracts the vaso-constriction effects of Ephedrine.

Enough of the components, how do they work together?

*The ECA Stack*

*Working together for the greater good!*

It has been shown that Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin work synergistically - that is the end effect is greater than the sum of the elements together. Kind of like 2+1+1=5. There is no doubt as to the effect of ephedrine on its own as it has been used for a long time in body building, and was part of the daily supplementation used by a certain Arnold Schwarzenegger during his training due to the increased energy and focus it gave him.

So what does the caffeine and aspirin actually do? Through the few studies that I can find, it would appear that the caffeine and aspirin inhibit the bodies natural purging action on the Ephedrine, thus increasing its effectiveness and longevity in the body. Debate rages on this on several forums and articles, however I can vouch that over the years (between body building eras) having done Eph, Eph + Caff and ECA, the ECA was much the best of them, and gave me the geratest weight loss. Now I am back training I only use ECA, or one of the variants listed later.

There are a couple of views on the ratios of the three, but boil down to 1:10:10 and 1:10:4. Personally I use the latter, having noticed no difference between the two ratios, but not wanting the additional stress on my gut of the higher aspirin dosage.

*Side effects. *

As with any stimulants it raises both heart rate, and blood pressure, so people with pre-existing heart conditions or a family history of heart problems should probably not take stimulants such as Ephedrine in any form. Due to the presence of aspirin it can cause gastro intestinal problems including ulcers. Additionally it can cause an increase in anxiety, and psychological issues. People with any history of mental problems, even panic attacks should steer clear of ECA.

ECA can also have a detrimental effect on libido, though not experienced this myself, being a God-damned sexual tyrannosaurus. 

Additionally your body becomes more tolerant of ECA the longer it is used. Rather than increasing the dosages, it is much safer to cycle it. There are several varying views on this - 8 weeks on 2 weeks off, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, and most in between. Personally I have used upto 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off and while I get a much bigger hit when I get back on it again, the effects noticeable wear off during week three. So I would suggest 2 on and 2 off to be optimal.

*ECA Availability*

Although Ephedrine is a controlled or banned substance (depending where you are), there are several ECA stacks available out there on the WWW, often cleverly disguised - so read the labels. Below are two of the more common combinations that can be found, variously with additional extras - which I have also attempted to explain.

A typical web sold ECA stack - this appears with many different labels, personally I have used this from Apha Labs, where it is called ECA 30+

EPH: 30mg - this is normally Ephedra, rather than pharma Ephedrine - so will have a lesser effect.

Caffeine: 210mg

Aspirin: 25mg

Naringin: 100mg - from Grapefruit, has wide ranging claims around cholesterol lowering and also may multiply the effects of caffeine in weight loss.

Dicalcium Phosphate: 55mg - wasn't sure on this one so looked it up - used in some medicines to reduce body odour - given the amount you sweat on this stuff when working out - probably not a bad thing!

When taking this blend I add in a cup of strong black coffee to get the 'C' part up to EPH x 10, and a junior Aspirin (85mg) to get the 'A' part up to about 3.5 - 4 x EPH

This one worked really well for me, and wile I am not taking it right now - will be going back to it.

The following blend appears as Malice from Chaotic Labs and Methyl Ephedra ECA by Sports One:

Ephedra extract - the E part

Caffeine - the C part

White Willow Bark - the A part (Aspirin was originally derived from Willow)

Yohimbine hcl - another great stimulant, and can help increasing libido

Phenylethylamine HCL - another stimulant, potentially with psychoactive effects

Hoodia 20:1 - a diet supplement famously used by Oprah

Green Tea extract 98% - another metabolism increasing agent

theobromine - similar effects to caffeine, and a vaso-dilator

chromium 10% - shrouded in debate, but various claims to reduce carb cravings and help wit insulin resistance (something that blights us over-40s!)

I am currently taking Malice and results have been bloody superb, and get such a rush from it. Thoroughly recommended and is available from one of UK-M's own sponsors, see the thread below for more details.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/mybodybuildingsuperstore/124077-new-fat-burner-just.html

Finally there is a home-brew ECA stack that is very popular, based on Chest-Eze as mentioned before. This is normally dosed as follows:

1 x Chest-Eze (18mg) - the 'E' part

3 x pro-plus (150mg) - the 'C' part

1 x junior aspirin (75 or 85mg) - the 'A' part

This gives a ratio not far from the 1:10:4 that I use, and in some people's view is the best as it contains medical grade Ephedrine. The only issue here is obtaining the Chest-Eze. If you go in looking in the peak of health, and clearly a lifter they may well refuse to sell it to you. Get your skinny wheezy chested mate to go buy them for you!

*Dosing times for ECA*

I have been carrying out very non-scientific 'research' as to the dosing of ECA and the effects on sleep, based on dosing times and also number of doses. This has been done with Malice, so your effects and experiences may vary.

When on an ECA cycle my first dose is always on waking at 5:45am (with or without an alarm). During the week this is prior to working out @ Muscleworks Bethnal Green at 7am. Then normally I will take a second dose at around 6pm - if on a big fat loss push this is about 1.5 - 2 hours prior to a pure aerobics session on the bike and treadmill.

This gives me maximum push at the gym and great fas loss, but allows me to get to sleep at about 00:30 - giving me my normal 5 hours - can't seem to sleep more than this with or without ECA - and the amount gets less the more I train. However do sleep very, very deeply.

When running 2 doses a day I would recommend that the last does is a MINIMUM of 6 hours before you want to go to sleep.

Additionally I tried adding in a third dose at mid-day, however taking three doses in a day seemed to have a cumulative effect and I couldn't get to sleep until about 3 am. I repeated this a number of times, at different times and intervals. It would seem that if taking more than the normally recommended 2 doses per day then you will need to leave 8-9 hours before you are going to get to sleep - so for those of you that need the full 8 hours then 2 doses is probably all you are going to manage in a day, without potentially increasing the risks, and not without getting seriously p155ed off when you can't sleep. 

The three doses route may be useful if you are off out on the town for a long night, however if you are a recreational drug user - particularly anything amphetamine based (speed, Es - MDMA etc), ECA will multiply the effects for you - so be VERY VERY careful.

*Note in comparison to Clenbuterol*

People often want to compare ephedrine to Clenbuterol. This is fine as long as you realize that they act in different ways. Clenbuterol is a specific beta-2 adrenergic agonist. As such, Clenbuterol interacts directly with beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat tissue. Ephedrine, on the other hand, is not a direct beta-2 agonist. In fact, ephedrine is a poor ligand for the beta-2 receptor. Instead, ephedrine stimulates the release of noradrenaline from sympathetic nerve terminals. The noradrenaline then goes on to interact with muscle and fat cells as a nonspecific adrenergic agonist. This simply means that noradrenaline activates beta-2 receptors, but also other beta-receptors as well as alpha-receptors. So to compare ephedrine and Clenbuterol you must take into account their differences. more data on this available at http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/ephedrine-hydrochloride.htm#ixzz1QTfRP3Rb

*In conclusion*

*
*ECA is a great tool to the toolkit of anyone wishing to lose fat, or gain a real focus in the gym - particularly if like me you train early morning. It is not going to give you the same fat lost as something like Clenbuterol, or combination products like ROHM Thermo-Lipid, and certainly not DNP. But conversely you are also less likely to die! 

It has directly helped in my fat loss over the last 3 - 4 months. I have lost close to 35lbs of fat in this time (based on weight and BF% calcs), and know that the loss is higher by about 20% when on ECA, than when off.

It does have side effects, and a very small number have died taking it, either through heart attack or stroke. These however have either, I believe, had pre-existing conditions or had massively overdosed the recommended amounts.

Like all drugs, research your subject thoroughly before you start, and if you are prone to anxiety attacks or have a pre-existing heart condition please seek medical advice before starting ECA. If you want any more information on what it feels like to take ECA, please feel free to PM me.

Cheers

Diggy.

(this is likely to get edited over time as I re-read or am corrected)


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## Fenza

Hey, would just like to say great post  has helped me with a fair few questions I've had about ECA. You seem to know your stuff so I'd like to ask for a bit of advice if it's not too much trouble. I started ECA stack 2 days ago and it really worked for me so far, but today I've felt more ill than anything else, kind of like a mild fever where I have no energy and just a general sense of unwell.

Have you ever experienced anything like this or know what I should do? Any advice at all would be much appreciated. Thanks.


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## kernowgee

DiggyV said:


> *ECA - Ephedrine Caffeine Asprin*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *Dosing times for ECA*
> 
> I have been carrying out very non-scientific 'research' as to the dosing of ECA and the effects on sleep, based on dosing times and also number of doses. This has been done with Malice, so your effects and experiences may vary.
> 
> (this is likely to get edited over time as I re-read or am corrected)


Its been a long warm weekend , so I could be wrong, but from a sunburnt memory 4 weeks is too much


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## need2bodybuild

Great info! Put me off a bit when you said about the few that have died taking it though lol.


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## JusNoGood

Good read. When I mentioned Ephi to my mum she said it was used by party folk in the 60's as an upper.

I don't have any problems buying Chest Eze in chemists. Just need to say you have a cough or bit of a tight chest. Its like a cold remedy so really Doesnt matter how big or fit looking you are. Just don't say Asthma as they'll recommend you go back to your doctor to revise your meds.

So what is the diff between Ephidrine and Ephidra?


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## kernowgee

Awake now, The E is a lot like Clen so you need to cycle it for no more than two weeks otherwise it effectiveness will start to downgrade as the bodies beta 2 receptors adjust, as I recall, you can cycle alternating with yohimbine as they use different receptors, if you use for 4 weeks you will render ECA useless


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## LionMX

Great post, very informative. I wish there was a Wiki on this website, this would have made a great candidate.


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## DiggyV

Fenza said:


> Hey, would just like to say great post  has helped me with a fair few questions I've had about ECA. You seem to know your stuff so I'd like to ask for a bit of advice if it's not too much trouble. I started ECA stack 2 days ago and it really worked for me so far, but today I've felt more ill than anything else, kind of like a mild fever where I have no energy and just a general sense of unwell.
> 
> Have you ever experienced anything like this or know what I should do? Any advice at all would be much appreciated. Thanks.


Hey, not something I have experienced on the ECA stacks I have used recently. I used to get similar feelings when I used a product called Xenedrine (about 10 years ago).

What version of ECA are you using, is a commercial product or a home brew one using chest-eze?

The other possibility is that you are actually ill. 

Cheers

Diggy


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## DiggyV

kernowgee said:


> Its been a long warm weekend , so I could be wrong, but from a sunburnt memory 4 weeks is too much


If you are taking one of the higher power metabolics like Clenbuterol then yes 4 weeks would be too much. Having looked at a number of ECA stacks they range from an average of 4 weeks up to 8 weeks. Some do state 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off - however these have all sorts of other stuff in them and are not just straight ECA.

From personal experience 4 weeks is fine, any longer and I get so little from it its not worth it anymore.

Cheers

D


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## DiggyV

JusNoGood said:


> So what is the diff between Ephidrine and Ephidra?


Ephedra is the plant (Ma Huang for example), and Ephedrine is the refined substance. So more bang for your buck (per mg) with Ephedrine.

Cheers

D


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## DiggyV

kernowgee said:


> Awake now, The E is a lot like Clen so you need to cycle it for no more than two weeks otherwise it effectiveness will start to downgrade as the bodies beta 2 receptors adjust, as I recall, you can cycle alternating with yohimbine as they use different receptors, if you use for 4 weeks you will render ECA useless


I must admit - I am at week 3 right now of an ECA stack and still get a great rush from it. About 45 minutes after taking. Probably about 80% of the first week rush but still there, and still measurable. Standing heart rate was 96! 

Anything longer that 4 weeks and I do notice a very definite drop in effectiveness.

However I guess as with all things pharmacological, everyone reacts differently.

Cheers

D

edit: research on Beta-2

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/ephedrine-hydrochloride.htm#ixzz1QTfRP3Rb

People often want to compare ephedrine to Clenbuterol. This is fine as long as you realize that they act in different ways. Clenbuterol is a specific beta-2 adrenergic agonist. As such, Clenbuterol interacts directly with beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat tissue. Ephedrine, on the other hand, is not a direct beta-2 agonist. In fact, ephedrine is a poor ligand for the beta-2 receptor. Instead, ephedrine stimulates the release of noradrenaline from sympathetic nerve terminals. The noradrenaline then goes on to interact with muscle and fat cells as a nonspecific adrenergic agonist. This simply means that noradrenaline activates beta-2 receptors, but also other beta-receptors as well as alpha-receptors. So to compare ephedrine and Clenbuterol you must take into account their differences.


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## Dapps

i just wanna say good info diggy helped out alot


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## r6richie

hi i am just coming off a bulking stage on saturday where i used sd matrix, then starting anabolix by biorythem as a pct! can i stack with this or should i wait till my pct is finished? also i still wanna take all my whey proteins with the eca stack as i will still be lifting to maintain muscle that i gained on the sd matrix but need to loose fat fast can this be done??


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## DiggyV

r6richie said:


> hi i am just coming off a bulking stage on saturday where i used sd matrix, then starting anabolix by biorythem as a pct! can i stack with this or should i wait till my pct is finished? also i still wanna take all my whey proteins with the eca stack as i will still be lifting to maintain muscle that i gained on the sd matrix but need to loose fat fast can this be done??


Personally I wouldn't run ECA until after PCT. PCT is there to help you:

a/. get your body back to normal, and recover from the PH

b/. ensure you keep the mass gains you made

So boosting your metabolism at this point may be counterproductive, if your calorie calc is low then you may end up catabolising (burning) muscle. I am not expert on this as all I want to do is still loose more fat.  2.5 stone and counting!

Also on a separate note, SD Matrix is one of the harsher PHs so you would benefit from running a full PCT rather than an OTC one. Conventional wisdom here has Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) at 20/20/20/20 in conjunction with a proven testosterone booster like bioforge, testforce2 or hcgenerate. Also some say to also include Clomid at 100/50/50 as well, but opinion varies. What is accepted is that you feed the full PCT though. Search these forums for "SD MAtrix PCT" and you should get what you are after.

I believe nolva and clomid can be purchased on-line easily through sites such as alldaychemist, and a google search for the test boosters should get you on the way there as well.

Cheers

Diggy


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## JayJo

DiggyV said:


> Also on a separate note, SD Matrix is one of the harsher PHs so you would benefit from running a full PCT rather than an OTC one. Conventional wisdom here has Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) at 20/20/20/20 in conjunction with a proven testosterone booster like bioforge, testforce2 or hcgenerate. Also some say to also include Clomid at 100/50/50 as well, but opinion varies. What is accepted is that you feed the full PCT though. Search these forums for "SD MAtrix PCT" and you should get what you are after.


HCGenerate would be a good choice for minimizing/preventing shutdown from a strong cycle.


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## sugarqueen

chesteze contains anhydrous theophyllin which i have read is toxic how does anyone know the dose before it gets to toxic levels??


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## DiggyV

I cant find any toxicity guides on Theophyllin, however seems to be at its worst when consumed with or near a fatty meal.

Given that you will possibly be taking one maybe two ChestEze in a day, and that the manufacturers recommended dosing is 1 every 4 hours to not exceed 4 in any 24 hours - then for the purposes of an ECA stack then you will be at half recommended dosage. So should be fine, however if in doubt as always consult the pharmacist about your bad chest when buying them! 

Cheers

Diggy


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## mazo

Great post i am on the home-brew ECA stack at the moment and it's working wounders. The problem is geting to sleep at night :huh:


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## DiggyV

I know what you mean - from personal experience I need to leave 8-9 hours after the last dose (when running 2 per day) before sleeping. ON a single dose I seem to be OK after 6-7 hours. Just personal experience, but if you are taking a second one at say 4pm, then you are probably gonna have problems! 

Cheers

Diggy


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## Northern Lass

need2bodybuild said:


> Great info! Put me off a bit when you said about the few that have died taking it though lol.


same here, I dont want heart attack


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## DiggyV

Same as any drug really - you abuse it, it will bite back. Keep it in the dosages above and you should have no problem. It is a stimulant so start with one dose in the morning and see how you get on, then build to two over the course of 6 hours or so.

I was apprehensive as well when I first tried it, but it definitely works great for me, and have no discernable sides providing I dont take it too late in the day. If I do then I just dont sleep.

Cheers

Diggy


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## Threepwood

Great post .. thanks


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## DiggyV

Strangely just replaying Curse of Monkey Island 2 SE on my iPod at the moment!


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## Threepwood

Monkey island ftw


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## sutty86

can i just add this post is brilliant should be make a sticky!

ive started my ECA stack today after having bunk clen for just over a week ( Chinese crap )

and the buzz is magnificent feel like i could train all day then run miles,

gonna have to buy some of that chest eze though, being in the forces if i get drug tested apparently Eph can show up as Amphetamines so need some back up....

they dont check for roids unless your officer demands a test on you (really rare)

cheers buddy!


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## DiggyV

Thanks for the compliment.

Chest-Eze is also pharma grade so you get a lot more bang for your buck!

Cheers

Diggy


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## Surlaw

Thanks for this guide, helped me understand a lot more about an ECA stack and what I need to be doing with it sort of thing.

Cheers!


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## DiggyV

Surlaw said:


> Thanks for this guide, helped me understand a lot more about an ECA stack and what I need to be doing with it sort of thing.
> 
> Cheers!


no worries, glad it was useful.


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## XRichHx

Thats some good advice, I recently started supplementing ECA stack again after my fat loss slowed down, pretty powerful with cardio. Hoping to get some good fat loss number at the weekend weigh in.


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## DiggyV

XRichHx said:


> Thats some good advice, I recently started supplementing ECA stack again after my fat loss slowed down, pretty powerful with cardio. Hoping to get some good fat loss number at the weekend weigh in.


THanks, glad it was useful

Dont focus too much on the scales buddy. Get yourself a set of callipers, and then measure body fat percentage. This way even if you are gaining muscle you will know if the fat loss is working or not. Also you can make sure you are losing fat, rather than just weight. as calories too low and you will store fat and burn muscle.

I use this site to input the measurements and get how fat I am :lol:

http://www.linear-software.com/online.html


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## XRichHx

DiggyV said:


> THanks, glad it was useful
> 
> Dont focus too much on the scales buddy. Get yourself a set of callipers, and then measure body fat percentage. This way even if you are gaining muscle you will know if the fat loss is working or not. Also you can make sure you are losing fat, rather than just weight. as calories too low and you will store fat and burn muscle.
> 
> I use this site to input the measurements and get how fat I am :lol:
> 
> http://www.linear-software.com/online.html


Good advice again! I use a similar site for fat % calcs that ones looks a bit nicer though, also take measurements as well as the weight, i use them all for an indicator rather than fact. Only thing I do struggle on is getting the calories in to where I need them to be, pain in the **** really.


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## DiggyV

Just noticed, Boots selling Chest-eze online now:

http://www.boots.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/EndecaSearchListerView?storeId=10052&langId=-1&catalogId=11051&stReq=1&searchTerm=chesteze&newDepSearch=&x=0&y=0#container

Not sure if there is a limit on this, and how much can be ordered though.


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## Nickthegreek

Yeah i totally get what you mean about three doses, i have used the home brew and messed up my sleep good and proper!


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## XRichHx

DiggyV said:


> Just noticed, Boots selling Chest-eze online now:
> 
> http://www.boots.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/EndecaSearchListerView?storeId=10052&langId=-1&catalogId=11051&stReq=1&searchTerm=chesteze&newDepSearch=&x=0&y=0#container
> 
> Not sure if there is a limit on this, and how much can be ordered though.


Amazon also sell the stuff I've noticed.


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## lxm

I had a bottle of diamond labs ECA 30+ a few years ago... stock was *ROCKET FUEL* needless to say.... I took it more for the buzz than fatloss though.. which isnt great...

Anywhere still sell that stuff ?


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## DiggyV

Nah mate - pretty much all ECA30+ now has no Eph in it at all. Its all Ephedra (the raw plant) now or Synephrine (which will work - but not with CA, needs Grapefruit juice!), and even Ephedra is being banned - link in sig.  Even the T5s that you might get from your source are pretty underdosed nowadays as well.

There is some good Eph floating around, but very hit and miss.


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## andys

Started the home made stack yesterday and today took it once on waking at 7 and once at 11.30 and didnt feel much off it at all, could it be i need to take 1.5 chest eze or am i looking for something that isnt going happen, and it will just run/work in the back ground?


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## DiggyV

andys said:


> Started the home made stack yesterday and today took it once on waking at 7 and once at 11.30 and didnt feel much off it at all, could it be i need to take 1.5 chest eze or am i looking for something that isnt going happen, and it will just run/work in the back ground?


depends on a lot of factors really mate. firstly you may not be that sensitive to it's physical side effects, the likelihood is it will still be doing its thing. THe second is whether you have been using anything else recently, particularly pre-workout supps or other OTC fat burners.

You could try 1.5 CE and see if it does anything. But I wouldn't go much above this TBH.


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## andys

DiggyV said:


> depends on a lot of factors really mate. firstly you may not be that sensitive to it's physical side effects, the likelihood is it will still be doing its thing. THe second is whether you have been using anything else recently, particularly pre-workout supps or other OTC fat burners.
> 
> You could try 1.5 CE and see if it does anything. But I wouldn't go much above this TBH.


I use a pre work out from nrg fuel called no.2..dont think i should post direct links up so this is whats in it..

Ingredients

Maltodextrin, creatine monohydrate, l-arginine, l-arginine AKG, citrulline malate, l-taurine, dicreatine malate, beta-alanine, l-leucine, citric acid, l-tryosine, flavour (orange, lemon, fruit punch), colour (beet red in fruit punch flavour, beta-carotene in orange flavour), dipotassium phosphate, caffeine, anitcaking agent (tricalcium phosphate), creatine ethyl ester, sweetener (sucralose), ascorbic acid, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, cyanocobalamin.

Nutritional Information (per100gr)

Energy (kj) 1533.66

Energy (kcal) 366.38

Protein 40.2g

Carbohydrates 51.39g

of which sugars 0g

Fat 0g

of which saturates 0g

Fibre 0g

Sodium 170mg

Also was sing there fat burners untill 1.5 weeks ago. this is whats in them..

Nutritional Information (per 2 capsules)

Guarana Extract 500mg

Garcinia Cambogia 250mg

L-Tyrosine 300mg

L-Carnitine L-Tartrate 100mg

Citrus Aurantium 300mg

Ginger Root 100mg

Vitamin B5 30mg

Vitamin B6 25mg

Chromium Picolinate 100mcg

Piperine 5mg

Caffeine 100mg

Vitamin B1 2.8mg

Cayenne Extract (Capsaicin) 60mcg

Vitamin B12 100mcg

Biotin 90mcg

Green Tea 100mg

could any of these things stop the eca running to its best?

Thanks for your help mate its much appreciated


----------



## DiggyV

andys said:


> I use a pre work out from nrg fuel called no.2..dont think i should post direct links up so this is whats in it..
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Maltodextrin, creatine monohydrate, l-arginine, l-arginine AKG, citrulline malate, l-taurine, dicreatine malate, beta-alanine, l-leucine, citric acid, l-tryosine, flavour (orange, lemon, fruit punch), colour (beet red in fruit punch flavour, beta-carotene in orange flavour), dipotassium phosphate, caffeine, anitcaking agent (tricalcium phosphate), creatine ethyl ester, sweetener (sucralose), ascorbic acid, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, cyanocobalamin.
> 
> Nutritional Information (per100gr)
> 
> Energy (kj) 1533.66
> 
> Energy (kcal) 366.38
> 
> Protein 40.2g
> 
> Carbohydrates 51.39g
> 
> of which sugars 0g
> 
> Fat 0g
> 
> of which saturates 0g
> 
> Fibre 0g
> 
> Sodium 170mg
> 
> Also was sing there fat burners untill 1.5 weeks ago. this is whats in them..
> 
> Nutritional Information (per 2 capsules)
> 
> Guarana Extract 500mg
> 
> Garcinia Cambogia 250mg
> 
> L-Tyrosine 300mg
> 
> L-Carnitine L-Tartrate 100mg
> 
> *Citrus Aurantium 300mg*
> 
> Ginger Root 100mg
> 
> Vitamin B5 30mg
> 
> Vitamin B6 25mg
> 
> Chromium Picolinate 100mcg
> 
> Piperine 5mg
> 
> Caffeine 100mg
> 
> Vitamin B1 2.8mg
> 
> Cayenne Extract (Capsaicin) 60mcg
> 
> Vitamin B12 100mcg
> 
> Biotin 90mcg
> 
> Green Tea 100mg
> 
> could any of these things stop the eca running to its best?
> 
> Thanks for your help mate its much appreciated


Not a huge amount in the pre-workout from a stim point of view, however the burner ingredient that may be causing some issues I have highlighted. This is Synephrine http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/164458-synephrine-comprehensive-guide.html, and should be cycled 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. So your alpha receptors will still be somewhat downregulated, so you wont be hitting them as well as you could be. Eph hits both alpha and beta receptors, so you will still get fat loss through the action on the beta receptors. But you wont get the buzz so much, as the action on the alpha receptor causes more free epinephrine (adrenaline in old school language) and so gives you the hit.


----------



## andys

DiggyV said:


> Not a huge amount in the pre-workout from a stim point of view, however the burner ingredient that may be causing some issues I have highlighted. This is Synephrine http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/164458-synephrine-comprehensive-guide.html, and should be cycled 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. So your alpha receptors will still be somewhat downregulated, so you wont be hitting them as well as you could be. Eph hits both alpha and beta receptors, so you will still get fat loss through the action on the beta receptors. But you wont get the buzz so much, as the action on the alpha receptor causes more free epinephrine (adrenaline in old school language) and so gives you the hit.


jeez you know your stuff mate, thanks...so what i can make out my body has got used to the Citrus Aurantium and kinda built up a tollerance to it which is stoping the eca doing its full job.

What would you recomend to do, you say my alpha receptors ( not sure what these are ) are downregulated, will this fix its self...would you carry on running the eca and in time it will have a better effect?

Also would you recomend running the eca twice a day say 7am...12pm and then use the pre work out supp at 5 or could that be to much stims ( i gues its trial and error )

Thanks again mate appreciate your advice  its all new to me, im on a low carb diet, training 4 days a week, fasted cardio in the morning, very clean diet, lost 14lb in 8 weeks off the fat burners but wanted to see if the eca will help shift a little more fat ive still got 7 - 8 % bf i wanna loose and not ready to go the clen or anything stronger route yet


----------



## andys

Cheers diggy, from what i make of that my body built up a tollerance to the ca which is now stoping the eca running at its best.

Will this dissapear on its own and eventually the eca will do its thing better?


----------



## DiggyV

andys said:


> Cheers diggy, from what i make of that my body built up a tollerance to the ca which is now stoping the eca running at its best.
> 
> Will this dissapear on its own and eventually the eca will do its thing better?


Your body got used to the Synephrine in the Fat Burner, which works in a similar way to the ephedrine. It wasn't the CA part (this only makes the Eph more effective - the caffeine is not there as a stimulant, as it works for this at the central nervous system level, where Eph works at a cellular level).

With any of these things, whoever long you are on it, you should allow at least that long off for recovery.


----------



## XRichHx

I just wanted to add to this thread.

I've been stacking now for two weeks. This is the last day.

Had some good results and an annoying side. Heartburn. Now This appeared at the end of week 1 and it first I was like wtf is this? I googled about, apparently too much caffeine can cause heartburn, makes sense with the pro plus and the fact I drink paint stripping coffee.

This was remedied by a Zantac tanlet at the second daily dose, cleared the issue right incase anyone else that experiences this side.


----------



## DiggyV

XRichHx said:


> I just wanted to add to this thread.
> 
> I've been stacking now for two weeks. This is the last day.
> 
> Had some good results and an annoying side. Heartburn. Now This appeared at the end of week 1 and it first I was like wtf is this? I googled about, apparently too much caffeine can cause heartburn, makes sense with the pro plus and the fact I drink paint stripping coffee.
> 
> This was remedied by a Zantac tanlet at the second daily dose, cleared the issue right incase anyone else that experiences this side.


Great tip mate. Like you I am a coffee fiend, and heartburn is the price I pay. 

In fact have a rep to get you stared on UK-M! Should give you one or two extra green bars!


----------



## XRichHx

DiggyV said:


> Great tip mate. Like you I am a coffee fiend, and heartburn is the price I pay.
> 
> In fact have a rep to get you stared on UK-M! Should give you one or two extra green bars!


Aw perfect, thanks very much  its a great site, just want to help add to it where I can.


----------



## DiggyV

XRichHx said:


> Aw perfect, thanks very much  its a great site, just want to help add to it where I can.


That's my ethos as well, there is so much info, where I can add benefit then I always try to!


----------



## andys

cheers for your help diggy...what would you recomend me to do carry on with the eca as i found the second dose today gave me a buzzy feeling and more of an elevated heart.


----------



## DiggyV

andys said:


> cheers for your help diggy...what would you recomend me to do carry on with the eca as i found the second dose today gave me a buzzy feeling and more of an elevated heart.


Yup - stick with the ECA - run it for 3 weeks or so, then give yourself a rest 3-4 weeks. This is the most frustrating part, but it is worth it, as when you go back on any of them you get a harder hit.

Good luck :thumb:


----------



## Jaff0

DiggyV said:


> Yup - stick with the ECA - run it for 3 weeks or so, then give yourself a rest 3-4 weeks. This is the most frustrating part, but it is worth it, as when you go back on any of them you get a harder hit.
> 
> Good luck :thumb:


Not really any need to cycle ECA.

Because even when the obvious CNS tells get acclimatised, the thermogenic effects still remain.


----------



## Fullhouse

Great post mate, this should be a sticky to help newbies


----------



## Cupra

I tried this for the first time today. After telling a colleague I have a lack of energy in the gym. I also added 4 no2 extreme tabs and the results were amazing.

LOADS of energy, and loads of pump from the NO2.

I completed my workout that normally takes me an hour in 40mins.

Has anyone had any problems stacking with NO2?

Am I safest to do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off?

Thanks


----------



## XRichHx

Cupra said:


> I tried this for the first time today. After telling a colleague I have a lack of energy in the gym. I also added 4 no2 extreme tabs and the results were amazing.
> 
> LOADS of energy, and loads of pump from the NO2.
> 
> I completed my workout that normally takes me an hour in 40mins.
> 
> Has anyone had any problems stacking with NO2?
> 
> Am I safest to do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off?
> 
> Thanks


An hour and forty? What are you doing in there?


----------



## smaj210

got me some chest eze yesterday, im going to cycle it with clen for two weeks each, what is the ammount of asprin needed with one chest eze?


----------



## DiggyV

Jaff0 said:


> Not really any need to cycle ECA.
> 
> Because even when the obvious CNS tells get acclimatised, the thermogenic effects still remain.


what makes you say this? ECA is not a central nervous system stimulant. Caffeine is, but the addition of caffeine is not for its CNS properties.

Please read the main article, ECA is an alpha and beta agonist and has a downregulatng effect on these receptors. Whilst the beta receptors can be protected using either ketitofen or diphen HCL, the alpha receptors need a break to up regulate again


----------



## DiggyV

Cupra said:


> I tried this for the first time today. After telling a colleague I have a lack of energy in the gym. I also added 4 no2 extreme tabs and the results were amazing.
> 
> LOADS of energy, and loads of pump from the NO2.
> 
> I completed my workout that normally takes me an hour in 40mins.
> 
> Has anyone had any problems stacking with NO2?
> 
> Am I safest to do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off?
> 
> Thanks


2 on 2 off is fine. Adding in NO2 is fine also, as there is nothing in there that will interfere. But as has been said 1hr40min is a hell of a workout unless an hour of that is cardio.


----------



## DiggyV

smaj210 said:


> got me some chest eze yesterday, im going to cycle it with clen for two weeks each, what is the ammount of asprin needed with one chest eze?


If you look at the first post it tells you  however to make it easy for you

1 chesteze is 18mg eph and 30mg caffeine. You need to add in another 150mg of caffeine, which is 3 pro plus. Then 1 junior aspirin which is 75mg. This gives a ratio between the three of 1:10:4 which is just about perfect.

You need all three parts though for it to be at its peak effectiveness.


----------



## DiggyV

andys said:


> What would you recomend to do, you say my alpha receptors ( not sure what these are ) are downregulated, will this fix its self...would you carry on running the eca and in time it will have a better effect?
> 
> Also would you recomend running the eca twice a day say 7am...12pm and then use the pre work out supp at 5 or could that be to much stims ( i gues its trial and error )


Your cells have all sorts of receptors in them that different chemicals and hormones attach to, to get them to do various jobs.

What ECA and synephrine, 1,3 DMAA etc do is prevent the action of one of these interactions. Under normal circumstances your body releases epinephrine (adrenaline) and another chemical called norepinephrine. The balance between these keeps us moving around. So when we get a shock or need to fight your body releases Moe epinephrine and you are ready for action, but then releases more norepinephrine to calm you down

What these things do is prevent the norepinephrine working as well. So you have an excess of epinephrine and you get a buzz and feel energised. The action also helps release more stored fat as energy which is what we are after.

After using these the receptors being targeted reduce, this is calls down regulation so the effects become diminished over time. That a why we need a break.

Hope this helps a little.

:thumb:


----------



## andys

I think im going to stick with the eca twice a day for 3 weeks and then give them a break? i dont know if im miss understanding you but do you think that my pre work out wont effect the eca working to its full potential?

Also ive been doing alot of reading on clen and it isnt what i first thought it was, always been so weary of using anything but am starting to think about something in the near future, i have a source if i decide i wanted to run some clen, how long after eca would you leave it?


----------



## Cupra

DiggyV said:


> 2 on 2 off is fine. Adding in NO2 is fine also, as there is nothing in there that will interfere. But as has been said 1hr40min is a hell of a workout unless an hour of that is cardio.


Thanks.

I meant my workout that normally takes me 1 hour (resting/lack of energy) took me 40minutes on the ECA stack. NOT 1:40 in total!


----------



## DiggyV

:lol:

Got it!



Cupra said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I meant my workout that normally takes me 1 hour (resting/lack of energy) took me 40minutes on the ECA stack. NOT 1:40 in total!


----------



## DiggyV

andys said:


> I think im going to stick with the eca twice a day for 3 weeks and then give them a break? i dont know if im miss understanding you but do you think that my pre work out wont effect the eca working to its full potential?
> 
> Also ive been doing alot of reading on clen and it isnt what i first thought it was, always been so weary of using anything but am starting to think about something in the near future, i have a source if i decide i wanted to run some clen, how long after eca would you leave it?


that would work well (3 on), and you are correct about the pre-workout. NO2 doesn't have anything that will blunt the effects of ECA.

Give yourself a couple of weeks, then you should be OK with the Clen. THe normal route for clen is 2 on 2 off, however if you include some 50mg Nytol (or own brand sleep aid - boots or tesco's pharmacy) then you can extend the 2 weeks out to 4 quite easily. Make sure the sleek aid has DiphenHydramine HCL in it, this is what you want. Take it last thing at night as it will make you sleepy !


----------



## Jaff0

DiggyV said:


> what makes you say this? ECA is not a central nervous system stimulant. Caffeine is, but the addition of caffeine is not for its CNS properties.
> 
> Please read the main article, ECA is an alpha and beta agonist and has a downregulatng effect on these receptors. Whilst the beta receptors can be protected using either ketitofen or diphen HCL, the alpha receptors need a break to up regulate again


What makes me say this?

Well general reading of Lyle's site, and comments he's made about ECA in general - most of which I don't have a quick and dirty reference to, but these will do for now...

Post by Lyle

Page he linked to

Edit: few more links...

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?p=33156&postcount=5

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?p=33237&postcount=7

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?p=5755&postcount=8

forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=13796


----------



## STAN.

i love my eca stack when getting rid of unwated fat.you cant beat it. :thumb: ps nice post


----------



## DiggyV

Jaff0 said:


> What makes me say this?
> 
> Well general reading of Lyle's site, and comments he's made about ECA in general - most of which I don't have a quick and dirty reference to, but these will do for now...
> 
> Post by Lyle
> 
> Page he linked to
> 
> Edit: few more links...
> 
> http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?p=33156&postcount=5
> 
> http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?p=33237&postcount=7
> 
> http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showpost.php?p=5755&postcount=8
> 
> forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=13796


The point in the first and second link about adrenal fatigue I agree with. Adrenal fatigue is a myth, and is a classic piece of bad broscience. The points in the latter posts, I cant agree with at this point, based on both research I have - which I will have to dig out, and also my own personal self experimentation. also you notice in the third link you have here, he is also unsure of this, as the post ends "(apparently)".

The fourth is a link to the same forum as the second - I will look at this, but the claims seem to be based on a single study.

The fifth link is a link to a study that only ran 4 weeks, so not sure what that post is showing.

The final link is about cycling Clen, and whilst it makes mention of ECA it doesn't confirm or deny either of our stances.

Thanks for the posts I will be looking st them, its great when there is more discussion and debate, its what enriches the knowledge pool.

:thumb:

edit: have just twigged who this guy is Kyle Leon.....hmm.....have previous experience with this guy, and tried his system at one point, still have it all somewhere. Lets put it this way - I'm not following it anymore.


----------



## shamil

I'm wondering if taking this as a supplement to fat loss would assist in my diet program. I'm obviously following increased expenditure over calorie intake, but would taking an ECA stack potentially boost my quest in fat loss? Further, for a starter, would one recommend taking a low dose, such as 1 capsule (24mg) or even less per day? Dosage times would be 45mins - 1 hour before breakfast?


----------



## andys

diggy will give you the full run down on it mate but IF your diet is right and you're doing cardio it cant hurt and could help speed up the progress, ive been taking the chest eze stack for a few days now, twice a day and dont really feel much off it, alittle burst of energy off it and slight elevated heart but its minor. Just start with one dose and see how it feels on you to be on the safe side is all id say. Again though id say it will only help if your diet is spot on and you are doing cardio aswell


----------



## XRichHx

shamil said:


> I'm wondering if taking this as a supplement to fat loss would assist in my diet program. I'm obviously following increased expenditure over calorie intake, but would taking an ECA stack potentially boost my quest in fat loss? Further, for a starter, would one recommend taking a low dose, such as 1 capsule (24mg) or even less per day? Dosage times would be 45mins - 1 hour before breakfast?


I've read over your weight loss thread and posted, in my opinion I think you should get your diet nailed properly first and then think about adding in ECA later.

ECA won't do much to help unless diet is spot on. It's a supp not a cure.

Rich.


----------



## DiggyV

andys said:


> diggy will give you the full run down on it mate but IF your diet is right and you're doing cardio it cant hurt and could help speed up the progress, ive been taking the chest eze stack for a few days now, twice a day and dont really feel much off it, alittle burst of energy off it and slight elevated heart but its minor. Just start with one dose and see how it feels on you to be on the safe side is all id say. Again though id say it will only help if your diet is spot on and you are doing cardio aswell





XRichHx said:


> I've read over your weight loss thread and posted, in my opinion I think you should get your diet nailed properly first and then think about adding in ECA later.
> 
> ECA won't do much to help unless diet is spot on. It's a supp not a cure.
> 
> Rich.


Shamil, Eca will at best give you a 4% boost in metabolism, so as the guys say above unless diet and cardio are nailed then no point you taking it at all. To put that into context, if your maintenance calories are 3000 per day, then this is 150 calories extra, or 1050 cals per week - abut 0.33 of a pound extra. So is not a miracle, but will help if you have everything else correct.


----------



## shamil

Thanks andys, XRickHx and DiggyV.

I agree that nailing diet and exercise is vital at this point, but I also wouldn't be taking ECA at this time anyway, given that I'm going to Florida for about a year - that hot (uncomfortable climate [for me]) is probably not best where ECA increases your temps.


----------



## Hydie

Ok need some advice...

Just started taking ECA yesterday using 1x chesteze, 1x Aspirin, and 2x Pro plus. First dose I took at 1.00pm and second at 5.00pm, had a good work out very alert etc. but got no sleep at all last night and went to bed around 12. Is this normal? carried on taking it today, but earlier first dose 9.00am, second 1.00pm. Any advice would be great.

Cheers


----------



## XRichHx

Hydie said:


> Ok need some advice...
> 
> Just started taking ECA yesterday using 1x chesteze, 1x Aspirin, and 2x Pro plus. First dose I took at 1.00pm and second at 5.00pm, had a good work out very alert etc. but got no sleep at all last night and went to bed around 12. Is this normal? carried on taking it today, but earlier first dose 9.00am, second 1.00pm. Any advice would be great.
> 
> Cheers


I wouldn't take it any later than 2pm.

My times were 6:30, 9:30 and 12:30. No problems with sleep here.


----------



## DiggyV

XRichHx said:


> I wouldn't take it any later than 2pm.
> 
> My times were 6:30, 9:30 and 12:30. No problems with sleep here.


My latest was about 3pm, but I dont go to sleep much before midnight anyway.

All of these things will disturb your sleep patterns if you either take them too late, or run big doses.


----------



## Cupra

I have been taking the stack for the last week, (1 chesteze, 3 proplus, 1 baby asprin) @ 1am & 5pm.. I go to the gym at about 5:45.

I am also stacking it with 6 no2 tabs (3 x 30mins before, and 3 x 5 mins before)

My first 2 days were amazing and i could really feel it working, I have a feeling my my body is adapting to it as the effects are about 50% now of the first time.. is it safe for me to up my dosage to 2 x chesteze @ 5pm or am I better off just adding another stack at say 9am??

I find a Nytol at about 10:30 sends me to sleep straight away..

Any help/thoughts/comments please guys!

I must say I am getting amazing pumps from the eca/no2 stack though


----------



## Hydie

XRichHx said:


> I wouldn't take it any later than 2pm.
> 
> My times were 6:30, 9:30 and 12:30. No problems with sleep here.


Yep the earlier dose was fine and slept well last night.

Another thing, should you take on an empty stomach or with a meal? and how intensive can work outs be?


----------



## XRichHx

Hydie said:


> Yep the earlier dose was fine and slept well last night.
> 
> Another thing, should you take on an empty stomach or with a meal? and how intensive can work outs be?


When I was on, I took first dose on an empty stomach then went and completed light cardio (40 min jog).

Other doses were taken before a meal / snack. My thought on this being it should be absorbed quicker / faster acting, however I'm. It entirely sure if it matters. Perhaps Diggy can confirm that?

I feel you can be intense as you like, get an idea of how you react whilst on. I done workouts with it an you get drive and focus, some people take it as a pre workout.


----------



## XRichHx

Cupra said:


> I have been taking the stack for the last week, (1 chesteze, 3 proplus, 1 baby asprin) @ 1am & 5pm.. I go to the gym at about 5:45.
> 
> I am also stacking it with 6 no2 tabs (3 x 30mins before, and 3 x 5 mins before)
> 
> My first 2 days were amazing and i could really feel it working, I have a feeling my my body is adapting to it as the effects are about 50% now of the first time.. is it safe for me to up my dosage to 2 x chesteze @ 5pm or am I better off just adding another stack at say 9am??
> 
> I find a Nytol at about 10:30 sends me to sleep straight away..
> 
> Any help/thoughts/comments please guys!
> 
> I must say I am getting amazing pumps from the eca/no2 stack though


I'm not entirely sure about upping dosage I leave Diggy to answer that, but what I would say is 36 mg of eph + caffeine at 5 pm will probably have you up all night!

In sure I read that fat loss studies on ECA used a daily amount of 60 mg of eph so as long as your near that it should fine. Might also be worth splitting to 3 doses to level out through the day. If that makes sense.


----------



## DiggyV

Cupra said:


> I have been taking the stack for the last week, (1 chesteze, 3 proplus, 1 baby asprin) @ 1am & 5pm.. I go to the gym at about 5:45.
> 
> I am also stacking it with 6 no2 tabs (3 x 30mins before, and 3 x 5 mins before)
> 
> My first 2 days were amazing and i could really feel it working, I have a feeling my my body is adapting to it as the effects are about 50% now of the first time.. is it safe for me to up my dosage to 2 x chesteze @ 5pm or am I better off just adding another stack at say 9am??
> 
> I find a Nytol at about 10:30 sends me to sleep straight away..
> 
> Any help/thoughts/comments please guys!
> 
> I must say I am getting amazing pumps from the eca/no2 stack though


Dont have 2 @ 5pm - you'll have trouble sleeping. Better to space them out evenly through the day. The reduction in effect is the downregulation happening. Nothing you can do about this. It will still continue to work in the background, however run it for 3-4 weeks then have a break of a similar length. you will be OK to start again at that point.

The Nytol may help to a certain extent with the Beta receptors, so keep the ECA working a bit better, however no on the Alphas.

Downregulation is normal, dont try chasing the 'rush' as you will end up taking dangerous levels of Eph. I would suggest 2 or 3 doses a day is the maximum, personally I use 2.


----------



## Cupra

Thanks. I may try 9am, 1pm & 5pm and see what affect that has on my sleep. Point taken about not chasing the high.

Do you take the stack on your off days also? I sometimes do a bit of light bag work (boxing) on my off days just too keep active

Sorry about the 101 questions, I just like to know everything


----------



## DiggyV

Cupra said:


> Thanks. I may try 9am, 1pm & 5pm and see what affect that has on my sleep. Point taken about not chasing the high.
> 
> Do you take the stack on your off days also? I sometimes do a bit of light bag work (boxing) on my off days just too keep active
> 
> Sorry about the 101 questions, I just like to know everything


Yes I take it on every day, during the cycle. It will burn fat whether you train or not. :thumb:


----------



## Cupra

Just gets better and better!


----------



## staffy_91

Got some Do-do's Chesteze of the net, arrived today, going to buy a pack from each of the two local boots stores then I'll be good to go for my first 2 week ECA stack.

Having read this thread on this I'm going to do 1-2 days using a singal dose, see how I react. Then up it to two dose's a day after that. One before Am Cardio 6 AM and the other around 1-2 PM

1 Chesteze

3 pro plus

Baby aspirin (75 Mg)

I've also read that grapefruit extract might work as a extra synergist? Does anyone know anything about this/ if its worth taking as well?


----------



## DiggyV

staffy_91 said:


> Got some Do-do's Chesteze of the net, arrived today, going to buy a pack from each of the two local boots stores then I'll be good to go for my first 2 week ECA stack.
> 
> Having read this thread on this I'm going to do 1-2 days using a singal dose, see how I react. Then up it to two dose's a day after that. One before Am Cardio 6 AM and the other around 1-2 PM
> 
> 1 Chesteze
> 
> 3 pro plus
> 
> Baby aspirin (75 Mg)
> 
> I've also read that grapefruit extract might work as a extra synergist? Does anyone know anything about this/ if its worth taking as well?


The stack you have is bang on mate - well done.

The grapefruit extracts you are talking about are Naringin and Hygamine, these do work synergistically, but not with Ephedrine, but with Synephrine (Citrus Aurantium / Bitter Orange Extract) that is found in some fat burners. No point adding it to ECA that I am aware of.

Good luck.


----------



## DiggyV

Hydie said:


> Ok need some advice...
> 
> Just started taking ECA yesterday using 1x chesteze, 1x Aspirin, and 2x Pro plus. First dose I took at 1.00pm and second at 5.00pm, had a good work out very alert etc. but got no sleep at all last night and went to bed around 12. Is this normal? carried on taking it today, but earlier first dose 9.00am, second 1.00pm. Any advice would be great.
> 
> Cheers


Also should be 3 pro plus.

You want a ratio of E:C:A of 1:10:4.

Each Chest=eze is 18mg Ephedrine + 30mg caffeine, each pro plus is 50mg Caffeine, and a junior aspirin is 75mg 18:180:75 - just about perfect 1:10:4.


----------



## staffy_91

Cheers, looking forward to it!


----------



## T100

Been using ECA stack of 1 chest eze, 1 75mg aspirin and 3 tesco own caffine tabs for 5 days and loving the boost and buzz you get bu does anyone else get a libido boost of this, or is it just me lol ?


----------



## DiggyV

tom1981 said:


> Been using ECA stack of 1 chest eze, 1 75mg aspirin and 3 tesco own caffine tabs for 5 days and loving the boost and buzz you get bu does anyone else get a libido boost of this, or is it just me lol ?


Some do, some get the complete opposite and they suffer a great deal of shrinkage  Known as Stim D1ck. Fortunately I dont get this, bit I dont get the libido thing either...


----------



## T100

Maybe just me then, don't get the shrinkage either but even if I did its been big enough to fill 2 prams lol


----------



## DiggyV

tom1981 said:


> Maybe just me then, don't get the shrinkage either but even if I did its been big enough to fill 2 prams lol


 :lol:


----------



## andys

Weighed my self this morning and havent had results i was hoping for, this could be a platuea in my diet cus its been the same as it was that i lost 14lb in 8 weeks but now ive only lost 2lb in 3 weeks ( and 3/4 inch off my waist ) this is a seperate issue i have to adress but was wondering if i should eaither up the dose of the stack to 1.5 chesteze or take the normal one 3 times a day, what do you think diggy?


----------



## staffy_91

Right hope no one minds, going to chuck up my personal thoughts on my first ECA experience&#8230;

Used it for the first time today, 19 year old Male, boxer trying to cut a little extra weight for a holiday / always fancied giving ECA ago.

I took

1 do do's chesteze (18.31 mg ephedrine HCL /30 mg of caffeine )

3 pro plus (150 Mg caffeine )

baby Asprin (75 mg Asprin)

Taken 40 minuets prior to working out, made sure I was well hydrated , felt good.

Come my workout I could feel a slight buzz, alertness but nothing more than I'd felt with 200 Mg of caffeine before though (no shock as I had 180 mg of caffeine in me )

I hit pull ups, overhead press, deadlifts , bent over rows, barbell curls and lat raises with a sand bag finisher ( 5 x 2 minute rounds carrying a 65 Kg sandbag)

I had smooth energy through out the workout, nothing special but felt good, noticed no warm sensation, no increased heart rate or tunnel vision like I'd read about.

Post workout I've felt fresher than usual even though I worked just as hard, even toying with a run later on depending on how I feel&#8230; rest day tomorrow so might put in a steady 2 miler.

All in all I'm quite happy and will be going ahead with a two week cycle starting next Thursday. (2 dose per day rather than the 1)

Just though I'd put this out there for anyone thinking about using ECA&#8230;


----------



## andys

Has anyone felt more cold than usual using eca, last few weeks my hands are cold and ive never had this before, was wondering if it qwas due to the asprin maybe, could be cus i havent got so much fat to keep me warm though lol....


----------



## RadMan23

Would it be possible to cycle ECA with 100mcg clenbuterol on a 2 day on 2 day off basis?

So 2 days clen then 2 days eca for about 4 weeks.


----------



## lxm

200 Kraized 8mg Ephidrine Hcl tablets arrived yesterday from century supplements. Delivery took 3 days from Canada...

Needless to say they are good to go, Tablets are certainly active, being a lightweight on stims im feeling rather chirpy and sociable on them...(3x8mg) feel the slight comeup, warm glow throughout the body, energy and slight empathy.  Im not a huge caffine fan so will only add caffine to the mix on workout days only.



andys said:


> Has anyone felt more cold than usual using eca, last few weeks my hands are cold and ive never had this before, was wondering if it qwas due to the asprin maybe, could be cus i havent got so much fat to keep me warm though lol....


ECA (ephidrine and Caffine) are stimulants, they are also vasconstrictors and can cause vasconstriction (narrowing of blood vessels) This can cause poor circulation, feel colder etc.


----------



## DiggyV

Nice to know there is some G2G Eph out there 

If you add the caffeine, make sure you add the aspirin as well. Its a 1+2+2=5 effect, they work synergistically, its not about the stim effect of the caffeine so much as caff is a CNS stim, where Eph is a broad spectrum receptor stim, mainly the betas (not Beta-2) and soem alphas as well. It upsets the NET protocol and as a result there is more free epinephrine (adrenaline in old speak) floating about and this gives you the buzz. the Caff and Asp effectively acts as a barrier so as the Norepinephrine does get released its action cancelling out the Epinephrine is delayed and you buzz for longer.

1:10:3 or 1:10:4 is the best ratio, so with 24mg Eph (3 x 8) you will need 240mg Caffeine (5 pro plus is 250mg), and 75-100mg of Aspirin.

Also dont over run on it, 2-3 weeks max and then off for the same period.

Good luck. :thumb:


----------



## DiggyV

RadMan23 said:


> Would it be possible to cycle ECA with 100mcg clenbuterol on a 2 day on 2 day off basis?
> 
> So 2 days clen then 2 days eca for about 4 weeks.


Yes this would work well. If you feel you are losing effectiveness from the clen, after time, you will need to add in the 50mg Nytol tabs (or supermarket/boots own) these are the pharmacist version, not the off the shelf ones. They contain Diphenhydramine HCL which will stop the beta-2 receptors downregulating, and the clen becoming less efficient. Its cheap as chips (patricularly own brand - but get the 50mg not the 25mg ones) Also only take them last thing at night as they will make you drowsy


----------



## staffy_91

3rd day of my ECA cycle today and i'm loving it, the appetite suppressant effect is really helping me keep carbs at bay, only really getting them from small amounts of green veg and nuts.

the energy is great, 3 spot on fasted morning cardio sessions and in the evening i've had one boxing session , 1 weights session and a "core" (ab, obliques and lower back) session. I've only just started to notice me sweating a little more during exercise but the weights going in the right direction and i'm feeling up beat about my "holiday body".

Only negative is I've felt a little more head rushy when standing up but that's easily countered by getting up slower.


----------



## MrLulz

Any cheaper sources then Astronutrition? Bought 150 Kaizen 8mg ephedrine for something like £40, and at 9 of them a day they've only lasted just over a fortnight. Which is more than I can really want to be regularly forking out.

For the record would rather buy ephedrine on it's own - rather than a premade eca stack - as I get my caffeine elsewhere at times (for example in the morning from SNS Focus XT) and have caffeine powder bought in already.


----------



## beeferberg

Been using the homebrew stack chesteeze pro plus and asprin for the last 4 days,all my weights have gone up 5kgs feel stronger and more focused ,i take them about an hour and 15 min before training as im more stronger and focused when the buzz kicks in,on my 2 days off the gym do i keep taking them or just when im training.Have no problem with the chemist getting hold of them they just say have you used them before.So far so good.


----------



## DiggyV

If you are using them to cut fat, take them constantly. However sycle them either 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, 3 on and 3off, or 4 on 4 off, although 4 weeks may be pushing its effectiveness.


----------



## MrLulz

One problem I'm getting with ECA is that come late evening when the last dose - and consequent appetite suppression - has worn off, well I get a huge urge to eat, and it's typically carb-laden and/or sweet foods I'm craving. And so it becomes very hard not to undo things; past few evenings I've just had sugarfree jelly late night - fair to say that jelly is not my favourite 'food', but it satisfies the mental craving at least slightly.



MrLulz said:


> Any cheaper sources then Astronutrition? Bought 150 Kaizen 8mg ephedrine for something like £40, and at 9 of them a day they've only lasted just over a fortnight. Which is more than I can really want to be regularly forking out.
> 
> For the record would rather buy ephedrine on it's own - rather than a premade eca stack - as I get my caffeine elsewhere at times (for example in the morning from SNS Focus XT) and have caffeine powder bought in already.


Anyone?


----------



## w0nderw0m4n

im using firestorm 25mg of ephidrine,225mg of caffine and take a baby asprin,plus i take them with redbull


----------



## DiggyV

MrLulz said:


> One problem I'm getting with ECA is that come late evening when the last dose - and consequent appetite suppression - has worn off, well I get a huge urge to eat, and it's typically carb-laden and/or sweet foods I'm craving. And so it becomes very hard not to undo things; past few evenings I've just had sugarfree jelly late night - fair to say that jelly is not my favourite 'food', but it satisfies the mental craving at least slightly.
> 
> Anyone?


Something else you might want to consider is a bulking agent - so no cals in, but fills you up. Psyllium husk or Fybogel work well. I use Psyllium and it helps no end.


----------



## phoenix1980

Going to be making this home stack and giving it a go, one thing that is bothering me though it hasnt been mentioned once in this thread is the aspiring. For years it was a wonder pill then a few years back it was linked to causing more problems than it solved(in those that did not have heart/stroke conditions) So I thought I'd get it off my chest is 150mg of aspirin a day safe to take(that would be two doses of the eca stack)? Thanks.


----------



## DiggyV

It is back on the good pil list again  not only for heart issues, but also for certain cancers as well.

I take 75mg per day as part of my normal supp regime, and I am not on the ECA at the moment.


----------



## phoenix1980

Thanks Diggy


----------



## Sc4mp0

Right, I have never took any ephedrine or anything like that before, just whey protein.

I am 5'10, 16 stone and 29 years old. Got a fairly big frame so I only want to lose about 3 stones.

I have 8mg ephedrine on the way along with 200mg caffeine tablets.

I want to lose weight and I play sports 3 times a week and thinking of starting a gym just to cycle perhaps another 1h extra a day.

I was thinking of taking 2x8mg ephedrine tablets, 1x200mg caffeine tablet and 1x75mg aspirin(Once in the morning, and once early evening about 5ish). Does that sound ok to start off on or should I have the ephedrine and caffeine??

Also INSTEAD of the 200mg caffeine tablets, could I replace them with this??

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=820&searchterm=super%20green%20tea&rdcnt=1

It still contains the 200mg caffeine but also has other ingredients. Is that ok or a bit too much??


----------



## Sc4mp0

Right,I'm 5'10,16stone and 29 years old.

I've had whey protein in the past but that's as far as it goes.I have now ordered 8mg ephedrine tablets which I'm waiting to receive.

I was planing on taking 2*8mg ephedrine,1*200mg caffeine tablet,1*75mg aspirin.

Is that ok to start off on or should I half the ephedrine and caffeine?

Also INSTEAD of pure caffeine tablets is it ok to replace them with the Super Green Tea Diet tablets from Holand & Barett?They contain 100mg caffeine but also more ingredients.

Any advice on this would be great,looking to lose about 3 stones.

Thank you


----------



## chuffy

Great guide. will be trying eca this week, just been to 2 boots in my town. This 1st girl was ok but the last woman was asking "who's it for" "what you using it for?" and gave me a parting shot before she put it through the till "it's actually dangerious to use this long term"

anyhoo, I have taken jak3d over the past 1.5 years along with other pre-workouts and I usually have my black coffee in the morning so I hope it gives me a little buzz without my heart exploding in my chest lol.


----------



## str4nger

I have been trying just ephedrine tabs with a cup of coffee which i think works better for me. Allows me to increase or lower the dosages as I see fit.


----------



## Garleader

Hi Diggy,

So I've read through and am tempted to jump on the ECA stack...Im going away in 17 days and want to drop as much weight as possible in that time. Diet is super clean, I am carb cycling and doing a fair amount of cardio (LISS / HIIT) as well as my normal weight training. But feel the ECA may add an extra dimension to my weight loss goals.

The only question I have is that I particularly enjoy a nice strong cup of black coffee most mornings and I am wondering whether having this will be detrimental to the stack given the exact ratios. I assume it will be but I'm just after a bit of clarification...

Oh and I also train at about 10am so would you take the second dose post workout?

Cheers.


----------



## Garleader

Okay so I went for it this morning:

1 Chesteze

3 Pro Plus

1 Baby Aspirin

I really felt it, started to hit me after about 30 mins, had only planned on doing some cardio this morning but went to the gym and felt the urge to lift lots of heavy things! I took the stack at about 6.45, trained about 7.30 for about 50 mins and I still feel absolutely buzzin. I've never typed so furiously on a keyboard in all my life...

So far so good...Im gonna have a second dose about midday, I think some sort of sleeping aid will be essential as I'm rather sensitive to caffeine but we shall see I guess!


----------



## JamesJamz

Garleader said:


> I've never typed so furiously on a keyboard in all my life...


Absolutely love this quote! haha

I'm thinking about taking the ECA route - but I don't know if to take the home brew route or buy an all-in-one pill - it seems that there are quite a lot of people on here taking the home brew route, is there any reason why people are doing this, other then to match a certain ratio?

What all-in-one pill are others taking, and where are they getting them from? After reading up on the net on all the other "aids" out there, this one seems to be the safest option out there to be honest. I don't want to mess my body up (which from reading things E3 could do just this). I have read this whole thread over the past hour, and have seen many good comments.


----------



## itsjosh

JamesJamz said:


> Absolutely love this quote! haha
> 
> I'm thinking about taking the ECA route - but I don't know if to take the home brew route or buy an all-in-one pill - it seems that there are quite a lot of people on here taking the home brew route, is there any reason why people are doing this, other then to match a certain ratio?
> 
> What all-in-one pill are others taking, and where are they getting them from? After reading up on the net on all the other "aids" out there, this one seems to be the safest option out there to be honest. I don't want to mess my body up (which from reading things E3 could do just this). I have read this whole thread over the past hour, and have seen many good comments.


It's harder to find an 'all-in-one' pill that actually contains Ephedrine (in my experience anyway) So Ephedrine, Caffeine & Aspirin are all easier to source separately


----------



## rectus

I've bought some Ephedrine (25mg), and I'm planning to buy this caffeine (200mg) and and maybe this aspirin (75mg).

*Would someone be able to work out what mg I would need for the perfect stack as well as how many times per week?* I'm guessing the caffeine will be in capsules so I won't be able to split that. I would like to keep it quite low as I am a little worried of the potential heart issues, you know like DEATH!



> Scientific research has shown that the combination of 25 mg Ephedrine, 200mg caffeine, and 300 mg aspirin is ideal to produce a synergetic effect. This combination, three times daily, approximately 30 minutes prior to a meal, will significantly burn fat. Competing bodybuilders have appreciated this for quite some time.


Is this seen to be true?


----------



## dbaird

do you all dose 3 times daily?

I am using chest-eze as I find most UGL eph crap these days.


----------



## rectus

dbaird said:


> do you all dose 3 times daily?
> 
> I am using chest-eze as I find most UGL eph crap these days.


I've got some 25mg pharma ones coming through  still unsure how to dose it all though.


----------



## dbaird

Probably need 1.5 to start


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> I've got some 25mg pharma ones coming through  still unsure how to dose it all though.


Sorry for the delay - have been absent from the board for a little while.

The ideal IMO dose is 1:10:4 E:C:A however to save screwing around with cutting tablets you can get 1:8:3 by simply taking one of each. 25:200:75

simples!


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> Is this seen to be true?
> 
> View attachment 96757


There is debate as to the need for higher aspirin - particularly with the potential negative sides that regular high doses of Aspirin brings. the two doses commonly taken are either:

1:10:4 E:C:A

and

1:10:10 E:C:A

I feel the need to the :10 of aspirin is doubtful and have never really noticed the difference between both dosing protocols, therefore tended to run the 1:10:4 dose.


----------



## rectus

DiggyV said:


> Sorry for the delay - have been absent from the board for a little while.
> 
> The ideal IMO dose is 1:10:4 E:C:A however to save screwing around with cutting tablets you can get 1:8:3 by simply taking one of each. 25:200:75
> 
> simples!


Blimey! quite the delay, I've ran 2 ECA cycles in that time. Running Primaforce Yohimbine HCL (2.5mg caps) in a couple of weeks during AAS PCT.


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> Blimey! quite the delay, I've ran 2 ECA cycles in that time. Running Primaforce Yohimbine HCL (2.5mg caps) in a couple of weeks during AAS PCT.


Yup! :lol:


----------



## VHHH90

Ill put this here to save a new thread.

Im starting my ECA stack tomorrow having previously used Diamond Labs 30+ although I am aware that their cheeky ingredient listing of EPH is ephedra rather than ephedrine!

Im starting off with 18E 150C 75A. Im planning on taking once upon awaking, and another 30 minutes pre work out. Should I skip the Aspirin on the second dose, and is it ok to alter Caffeine amount? Don't want to be messing up those ratio's or anything 

Edit: Chest-eze ephedrine.


----------



## DiggyV

VHHH90 said:


> Ill put this here to save a new thread.
> 
> Im starting my ECA stack tomorrow having previously used Diamond Labs 30+ although I am aware that their cheeky ingredient listing of EPH is ephedra rather than ephedrine!
> 
> Im starting off with 18E 150C 75A. Im planning on taking once upon awaking, and another 30 minutes pre work out. Should I skip the Aspirin on the second dose, and is it ok to alter Caffeine amount? Don't want to be messing up those ratio's or anything
> 
> Edit: Chest-eze ephedrine.


Dont mess with the ratios or drop the A. The three work in synergy together and is kind of like 1+1+1=5  Some people say 1:10:4 some say 1:10:10, however the difference with the extra aspirin is unnoticeable in my experience. However dont skip, or alter anything, I may have mentioned that already :wink: Chest-eze is the best option as is true pharma grade Eph.

And yes Diamond Labs is Ephedra, and one of many EAC30+ out there.

Good luck and let me know how you go. :thumb:


----------



## simonthepieman

Zion labs T-5 is doing a great job with me


----------



## Rod82

@Rod82 for later


----------



## aStandardName

Slightly changing the subject.

Diggy would you share your knowledge on thermo lipid stack. There is very little info online.


----------



## VHHH90

DiggyV said:


> Dont mess with the ratios or drop the A. The three work in synergy together and is kind of like 1+1+1=5  Some people say 1:10:4 some say 1:10:10, however the difference with the extra aspirin is unnoticeable in my experience. However dont skip, or alter anything, I may have mentioned that already :wink: Chest-eze is the best option as is true pharma grade Eph.
> 
> And yes Diamond Labs is Ephedra, and one of many EAC30+ out there.
> 
> Good luck and let me know how you go. :thumb:


Thanks mate. Had a good day today, didn't notice too much of a "buzz" but Ill stick with this dosing for the next couple of days or so.

Drank the best part of 10 litres of water though mg:

I do have two questions though. Would the same stack 3 times be alright, and more specifically does the dosage seperation times make that much difference? If I didn't get much of a buzz off 18/150/75 would doubling it for preW/o be wise?



aStandardName said:


> Slightly changing the subject.
> 
> Diggy would you share your knowledge on thermo lipid stack. There is very little info online.


Have you been through this thread?

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/17084-thermo-lipid-stack.html


----------



## DiggyV

aStandardName said:


> Slightly changing the subject.
> 
> Diggy would you share your knowledge on thermo lipid stack. There is very little info online.


Thermo Lipid is an all in one liquid fat burning stack manufactured by ROHM. It contains the following per ml:

Clenbuterol 60mcg,

T3 50mcg,

Yohimbine hcl at unknown levels

7-Keto hcl at unknown levels

A great fat burner. As with Clen on its own, you need to find your threshold. TL comes in a glass bottle with a dropper. You need to take it by placing drops under your tongue. Start with one, then on day 2, use 2 etc until you find the clen shakes are too much. then use 1 drop less for the rest of the cycle. also this is then your starting dosage for any subsequent cycles.

it is a broad spectrum fat burner, with the Clen hitting the Beta receptors, the Yohimbine hitting the Alphas, T3 working its normal magic and 7-keto is a metabolite of DHEA and does a couple of things. Firstly is thermogenic so aids fat burning and secondly supports healthy thyroid function, which may counteract some of the regulation of natural Thyroxine.

As with all alpha and beta stims, best to cycle 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. If you take either ketitofen or diphenhydramine hcl (in full strength Nytol - only from a pharmacist.) then you can counteract the beta receptor downregulation, and so keep the clen element active, however the yohimbine will downregulate the alpha receptors so it will lose its efficiency. Also T3 should not rally be run long term as can cause issues with your bodies ability to produce its own T4 (which your body converts to T3), so I would still suggest 2 on 2 off.

Hope this helps, if you need anything else just holler.

:thumb: good luck


----------



## rectus

Do other labs sell a similar product to ROHM's thermolipid stack?


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> Do other labs sell a similar product to ROHM's thermolipid stack?


Not that I am aware of, I looked for one a while back but had no luck other than the ROHM product.


----------



## Tom90

Just a quick one mate, can you see anything wrong with cycling clen + eca every 2 weeks, taking D Hacks' Power Stack during the 2 weeks off?


----------



## DiggyV

Tom90 said:


> Just a quick one mate, can you see anything wrong with cycling clen + eca every 2 weeks, taking D Hacks' Power Stack during the 2 weeks off?


Clen + ECA probably wont give you that much more than just clen TBH. Best bet would be to cycle either Clen for 2 weeks then ECA for 2, or Clen for 2 and then D-Hacks for 2. If you go with DHacks then take with Grapefruit juice (the synephrine in the DHacks burner i amplified with Naringin and Hsperidin, both of which are present in GJ. 200-330ml should do it).

The other problem with the cycle suggested s that both ECA and DHacks are Alpha stims, as as your Alpha receptors downregulate then running one after the other will mean that the second 2 weeks and 3rd 2 weeks etc will have little or no effect. You need to cycle the Beta Stim with an Apha stim as per my first line above.


----------



## Tom90

DiggyV said:


> Clen + ECA probably wont give you that much more than just clen TBH. Best bet would be to cycle either Clen for 2 weeks then ECA for 2, or Clen for 2 and then D-Hacks for 2. If you go with DHacks then take with Grapefruit juice (the synephrine in the DHacks burner i amplified with Naringin and Hsperidin, both of which are present in GJ. 200-330ml should do it).
> 
> The other problem with the cycle suggested s that both ECA and DHacks are Alpha stims, as as your Alpha receptors downregulate then running one after the other will mean that the second 2 weeks and 3rd 2 weeks etc will have little or no effect. You need to cycle the Beta Stim with an Apha stim as per my first line above.


I was hoping you'd make sense of the Alpha/Beta down-regulation. Looks like my question should've been clen and ECA cycled every 2 weeks, or clen and d hacks PS cycled every 2 weeks...

I'm not sure how potent their ECA stack is as it's fairly new, don't know what doses it has, either. Just ordered a tub to try though.


----------



## DiggyV

Tom90 said:


> I was hoping you'd make sense of the Alpha/Beta down-regulation. Looks like my question should've been clen and ECA cycled every 2 weeks, or clen and d hacks PS cycled every 2 weeks...
> 
> I'm not sure how potent their ECA stack is as it's fairly new, don't know what doses it has, either. Just ordered a tub to try though.


ECA will be more potent. Outside of DNP and Clenbuterol (and other similar like albuterol) ECA is probably the next potent. Not sure of the DHacks stack, never used it. Just make sure that the ratio of E:C:A is 1:10:4, the three ingredients work synergistically to affect something called the Norepinephrine Transport. The action of the three is greater than sum of its part. Kinda 1+1+1=5 

I wrote an article called 'ECA - A Comprehensive Guide', sorry don't have the link to hand, just search for those words and you should find it. Give it a read


----------



## Tom90

DiggyV said:


> ECA will be more potent. Outside of DNP and Clenbuterol (and other similar like albuterol) ECA is probably the next potent. Not sure of the DHacks stack, never used it. Just make sure that the ratio of E:C:A is 1:10:4, the three ingredients work synergistically to affect something called the Norepinephrine Transport. The action of the three is greater than sum of its part. Kinda 1+1+1=5
> 
> I wrote an article called 'ECA - A Comprehensive Guide', sorry don't have the link to hand, just search for those words and you should find it. Give it a read


We're posting in that thread LOL!

I have taken ECA and DNP before. When I mentioned the potency of D Hacks' ECA, I meant compared to the Chest-Eze stack that I used to take.

Thanks for your help mate :thumb:


----------



## DiggyV

Tom90 said:


> We're posting in that thread LOL!
> 
> I have taken ECA and DNP before. When I mentioned the potency of D Hacks' ECA, I meant compared to the Chest-Eze stack that I used to take.
> 
> Thanks for your help mate :thumb:


I know I was trying to be funny, clearly failed. I'll stick to science. :lol:

It depends on the ratios in the DHacks stack. DHacks has 30mg Eph/Aspirin, 200mg Caffeine.

The ratios are non - optimal mate.

Should be 1:10:4, and can go up to 1:10:10, so the caffeine is Ok, however the aspirin is not.

I would suggest that if you have these coming, take them with either a junior aspirin, or one of the newer gastric safe ones, both are 75mg.

The home built chesteze one is the dogs, and you won't find a UK that supplies anything to match this.


----------



## mr.buffnstuff

Where can I buy ephedrine from? I use to buy eph tabs a few years back? I assume they are legal as you buy them in various meds etc...


----------



## DiggyV

mr.buffnstuff said:


> Where can I buy ephedrine from? I use to buy eph tabs a few years back? I assume they are legal as you buy them in various meds etc...


Ephedrine is a controlled substance mate. Can only legally be obtained by asking a pharmacist for it. DoDos ChestEze are pharma grade Ephedrine, and this is your best bet TBH.

Most AAS Source Ephedrine is massively underdosed or not Ephedrine at all. Also anything you see labelled ECA 30+ WONT be Ephedrine. It is marked 'Eph'and is Ephedra the plant that Ephedrine comes from, and a much much lower strength.

You can only get Chesteze by asking somewhere like boots, or an online pharmacist like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dodo-Chesteze-Tablets-9-Do-Do/dp/B001PML600

Build your own then mate as per the first post in this thread:

1 x ChestEze

3 x ProPlus

1 x junior Aspirin

will give you almost the perfect ration of 1:10:4 - E:C:A, and you will get a noticeable boom from it. :thumb:


----------



## mr.buffnstuff

A daft question but... Does it cost more buying chest-eez and making your own eca stack or would I be better off buying an ECA from a source? T5 is ECA right?


----------



## DiggyV

mr.buffnstuff said:


> A daft question but... Does it cost more buying chest-eez and making your own eca stack or would I be better off buying an ECA from a source? T5 is ECA right?


It will cost more, but.... you will be sure what you're getting. and works really well.

T5 is ECA, but the same warnings as per my previous answers apply. Most source eph is crap (whatever they tell you - the only way to be sure is ask other users from the same source), I even know some people who have been sold Warrior Blaze as T5. Seriously...


----------



## mr.buffnstuff

Oh dear! Well I have various contacts in some high up positions withing pharmaceutical and such like, I'll try and find a good source of pharma eph. I see what you mean about the 'branded t3' I wonder how accurate a 'marquis' test would be on eph?


----------



## Outoftoon

Could I take Chesteze with Viper Boost, as I already have some, for the caffeine and then add aspirin?


----------



## Outoftoon

This is the viper boost ingredients

Ingredient Information

Per 2 capsules, active ingredients:

L-Carnitine500mg

L-Tyrosine250mg

L-taurine 140mg

Caffeine102mg

Bitter Orange Peel powder150mg

Guarana Seed powder50mg

Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid)10mg


----------



## DiggyV

You can, but you'd be better off just running either one or the other. Viper Boost contains Bitter Orange Peel powder (which is the sneaky post-ban way of using Synephrine  ) TAke this stuff with Grapefruit juice and you will get much more out of it. the Hesperidin and Naringin in GJ acts with Synephrine and lifts its potency 2x.

ECA and VB are both Alpha stims so if you added Eph in - you would possibly notice a little additional lift - but not that would justify taking it in addition. Also you may well downregulate quicker, so would have to stop taking it sooner.

Either run VB with Grapefruit Juice for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off, or run ECA (chesteze home stack) 2 on and 2 off.

You cant run ECA for 2 weeks and then VB for 2 weeks as they both hit the Alpha receptors and you need to be off for as long as you are on to allow them to recover and become effective again.


----------



## JustTheBegining

Am I good to take this stack? I've just turned 18 and been using the gym for a year now?

Cheers


----------



## Outoftoon

DiggyV said:


> You can, but you'd be better off just running either one or the other. Viper Boost contains Bitter Orange Peel powder (which is the sneaky post-ban way of using Synephrine  ) TAke this stuff with Grapefruit juice and you will get much more out of it. the Hesperidin and Naringin in GJ acts with Synephrine and lifts its potency 2x.
> 
> ECA and VB are both Alpha stims so if you added Eph in - you would possibly notice a little additional lift - but not that would justify taking it in addition. Also you may well downregulate quicker, so would have to stop taking it sooner.
> 
> Either run VB with Grapefruit Juice for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off, or run ECA (chesteze home stack) 2 on and 2 off.
> 
> You cant run ECA for 2 weeks and then VB for 2 weeks as they both hit the Alpha receptors and you need to be off for as long as you are on to allow them to recover and become effective again.


Thanks for the advice!


----------



## DiggyV

JustTheBegining said:


> Am I good to take this stack? I've just turned 18 and been using the gym for a year now?
> 
> Cheers


Unlike steroids that can have an adverse effect on the closure plates of your bones if taken too early - which can result in stunted growth, ECA ca be used at your age, however my advice would be (given that ECA would only account for an additional 5-7% metabolic gain) that you make sure you know what your base metabolic rate is, and also what calories you consume. Lest say an average male needs 2200 cals a day, ECA will maybe give you losses of 140-150 cals a DAY - not going to get thin just doing this.  Add in exercise and the rate increases a little. Also it helps suppress appetite which again will help you stop over eating.

MyFitnessPal is very good for working out BMR and cals to consume - and its free. Will also allow you to put in your target losses per week (aim for 1-1.5 pounds no more - you can go to 2 but this is tough). I tend to ignore the macros as the protein is too low for me, so I aim for my protein level, and then let the carbs and fats look after themselves toa certain degree, just as long as the cals work. Be super strict how you log and you will find this helps greatly.

ECA is not going to shed weight for you without you putting in the work on your diet and exercis - NO DIET PILL WILL - whatever the internet tells you :lol: Particularly not Raspberry Ketones - see my other article on them for the science that means they are bullshit.

ECA can be a great tool in your weigh loss ****nal, but can only help, it wont do all the work.


----------



## neverminder

So I pulled the trigger too early and bought a goddamn fake ECA 30+. Then I have read this whole thread and being a bit more informed ordered Kaizen Ephedrine HCL 8mg tabs from a well known canadian website (not sure if I can post URL here?). Is this stuff any good?

I'm thinking about having this stack: 16 mg ephedrine - 200 mg caffeine - 75 mg aspirin, two times a day (6 in the morning and at noon). So my questions are:

1. Does this stack look ok or should I add or subtract something?

2. I always workout in the morning every day (4 days of weights and 3 days of HIIT). Is it safe to use it before lifting workout and before HIIT workout (I'm guessing before HIIT it's a no go?).

UPDATE: got tired of waiting and being jerked around, so went out to Boots just now and bought Chesteze + ProPlus + 75mg aspirin, gonna hit it tomorrow. The chick at the counter asked if I was "a sports person", yeah like I'm that stupid. My second question still stands though.


----------



## aStandardName

DiggyV said:


> Thermo Lipid is an all in one liquid fat burning stack manufactured by ROHM. It contains the following per ml:
> 
> Clenbuterol 60mcg,
> 
> T3 50mcg,
> 
> Yohimbine hcl at unknown levels
> 
> 7-Keto hcl at unknown levels
> 
> A great fat burner. As with Clen on its own, you need to find your threshold. TL comes in a glass bottle with a dropper. You need to take it by placing drops under your tongue. Start with one, then on day 2, use 2 etc until you find the clen shakes are too much. then use 1 drop less for the rest of the cycle. also this is then your starting dosage for any subsequent cycles.
> 
> it is a broad spectrum fat burner, with the Clen hitting the Beta receptors, the Yohimbine hitting the Alphas, T3 working its normal magic and 7-keto is a metabolite of DHEA and does a couple of things. Firstly is thermogenic so aids fat burning and secondly supports healthy thyroid function, which may counteract some of the regulation of natural Thyroxine.
> 
> As with all alpha and beta stims, best to cycle 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. If you take either ketitofen or diphenhydramine hcl (in full strength Nytol - only from a pharmacist.) then you can counteract the beta receptor downregulation, and so keep the clen element active, however the yohimbine will downregulate the alpha receptors so it will lose its efficiency. Also T3 should not rally be run long term as can cause issues with your bodies ability to produce its own T4 (which your body converts to T3), so I would still suggest 2 on 2 off.
> 
> Hope this helps, if you need anything else just holler.
> 
> :thumb: good luck


Thanks for the info mate. I haven't touched the stuff yet. Started a keto diet which has given good results in 2 weeks, got stalled by Easter eggs. Now back on it, starting a log on the forum.

Couple q's..

Would it be best to use thermo,lipid after my keto diet or ok to use during?

I have a recommended dose from where I got the thermo. Seems a bit much compared to 2 weeks on/off.

Here it is:

Thermo Lipid dosage on an empty stomach 20mins prior to breakfast please do not exceed the recommended dosage, and mix into still juice not fizzy drinks. 5 days on weekends off.

Week 1 - 0.5ml every day weekly weight loss -

Week 2 - 1.0ml

Week 3 - 1.5ml

Week 4 - 2ml

Week 5 - 2ml

Week 6 - 1ml

Cheers dude


----------



## DiggyV

aStandardName said:


> Thanks for the info mate. I haven't touched the stuff yet. Started a keto diet which has given good results in 2 weeks, got stalled by Easter eggs. Now back on it, starting a log on the forum.
> 
> Couple q's..
> 
> Would it be best to use thermo,lipid after my keto diet or ok to use during?
> 
> I have a recommended dose from where I got the thermo. Seems a bit much compared to 2 weeks on/off.
> 
> Here it is:
> 
> Thermo Lipid dosage on an empty stomach 20mins prior to breakfast please do not exceed the recommended dosage, and mix into still juice not fizzy drinks. 5 days on weekends off.
> 
> Week 1 - 0.5ml every day weekly weight loss -
> 
> Week 2 - 1.0ml
> 
> Week 3 - 1.5ml
> 
> Week 4 - 2ml
> 
> Week 5 - 2ml
> 
> Week 6 - 1ml
> 
> Cheers dude


6 weeks is way to long for the Clen and Yohimbine and especially for the T3. Really odd advice.

Clen really is only effective for 2-4 weeks - depending on the individual, I recommend 2 weeks as if you run 4 you will need 4 off, and the last 2 will not be as effective, so better ro run shorter and more often. Yohimbine is exactly the same 2/2. T3 I am always very wary of. I know of people who have run it long term and screwed their Thyroid up so badly that they now have to take T4 every day, and will do forever. T3 works really well, but should be treated with caution, and the correct way to run it involves monitoring your own body's response to it.

So I would personally run it 2/2, possibly 3/3 but no more than that. 2ml is probably OK as a dose (100mcg T3 is normally about the right dose for most people). So on a ml dosing for you I would suggest:

Day 1,2,3 - 0.5ml

Day 4,5,6,7 - 1.0ml

Week 2 - 2.0 ml

and stop.

No point tapering. Your body's natural T4 production will have shut down by the end of Week 2, so better just to kick start it back in again, rather than ease it in. T4 gets converted to T3 and T3 to T2. All regulated by something called Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH). IF your T3 levels are high, then TSH will be low, your own thyroid wont produce any T4. Once you stop, after a day or so your TSH will start to rise and natty T4 production will start again.

Hope this helps (again) :thumb:


----------



## rectus

DiggyV said:


> I know of people who have run it long term and screwed their Thyroid up so badly that they now have to take T4 every day, and will do forever.


What do you mean you know of people? It's not true.


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> What do you mean you know of people? It's not true.


It is mate - a well known and respected member on here took T3 long term and shut his own thyroid down. He now takes T4 daily.

It may be co-incidental, but he is convinced not, as there was no history of issues before hand.

May not be the case for everyone, but it does happen.

You should know me well enough to know I dont post scare stories, I actively look to debunk them. :thumb:


----------



## rectus

DiggyV said:


> It is mate - a well known and respected member on here took T3 long term and shut his own thyroid down. He now takes T4 daily.


Well when I looked into it, my findings showed it was just a silly rumour that's been working its way round the Internet for years. People who have been taking T3 for years and come off restore their natural thyroid function surprisingly quickly.


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> Well when I looked into it, my findings showed it was just a silly rumour that's been working its way round the Internet for years. People who have been taking T3 for years and come off restore their natural thyroid function surprisingly quickly.


I actually added a couple more lines while you were replying. :lol:


----------



## rectus

DiggyV said:


> You should know me well enough to know I dont post scare stories, I actively look to debunk them. :thumb:


That is true, and appreciated but I thought maybe you were having an off day 

It's just one guy, who may have had other complications so we just don't know. I'll continue to believe that it's completely safe for your natural thyroid until someone proves me otherwise.


----------



## DiggyV

rectus said:


> That is true, and appreciated but I thought maybe you were having an off day
> 
> It's just one guy, who may have had other complications so we just don't know. I'll continue to believe that it's completely safe for your natural thyroid until someone proves me otherwise.


No worries, and I'll continue to urge caution 

:lol:

have a good one buddy.


----------



## neverminder

So I started the standard stack today (Chesteze, ProPlus and 75mg aspirin). I took one at 07:00 and one more at 12:00. This stuff totally kicked my ass (I was off the caffeine completely for a few weeks now, guess that just amplified the effect). I have a few questions for @DiggyV:

1. Is it ok to take it before weights workout? I always workout in the morning at 6:30, 4 days a week.

2. Is it ok to take it before HIIT workout? (Something tells me that's a no go) I always workout in the morning at 6:30, 3 days a week.

3. My heartbeat increased quite a bit today, made me a bit worried. Can this have some kind of long term adverse affect?

Oh, and I'm on a keto right now(CKD to be exact).

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DiggyV

neverminder said:


> So I started the standard stack today (Chesteze, ProPlus and 75mg aspirin). I took one at 07:00 and one more at 12:00. This stuff totally kicked my ass (I was off the caffeine completely for a few weeks now, guess that just amplified the effect). I have a few questions for @DiggyV:
> 
> 1. Is it ok to take it before weights workout? I always workout in the morning at 6:30, 4 days a week.
> 
> 2. Is it ok to take it before HIIT workout? (Something tells me that's a no go) I always workout in the morning at 6:30, 3 days a week.
> 
> 3. My heartbeat increased quite a bit today, made me a bit worried. Can this have some kind of long term adverse affect?
> 
> Oh, and I'm on a keto right now(CKD to be exact).
> 
> Thanks in advance.


OK, in order:

That's pharma Eph for you. The caffeine is not just in there for the stim part (caffeine if a central nervous stim - so wont really burn significant cals), the action of the Caffeine and Aspiriin affects the cell membrane and extends and enhances the effects

1. Was fine for me - I always train weights before Cardio - non HIIT - too old for that sHIIT 

2. hmmm, more difficult this one because it will depend on the person. ECA will raise your heart rate, however the amount will vary person to person, and added to HIIT may raise it too high. I would suggest dont take it before HIIT mate for the time being, until you are more used to the effects of ECA.

3. Not that I am aware of. The problems may occur if the ECA combined with very strenuous training (like HIIT) gets it too high.

The effects will decrease over the next 2 weeks - downregulation, so remember to come off as well, normally after 2 weeks, or when you feel you are getting little from it.

Holler if you need more.


----------



## neverminder

@DiggyV Thanks, you have confirmed what I was already thinking. I have one more question I forgot to ask. You have mentioned somewhere in this thread that this ingredient of Chesteze - Theophylline doesn't get along with fat food. I eat like 6-7 times a day and normal break between meals is about 2 hours, so if I take ECA in between meals (1 hour before and/or after), would that be ok?


----------



## DiggyV

neverminder said:


> @DiggyV Thanks, you have confirmed what I was already thinking. I have one more question I forgot to ask. You have mentioned somewhere in this thread that this ingredient of Chesteze - Theophylline doesn't get along with fat food. I eat like 6-7 times a day and normal break between meals is about 2 hours, so if I take ECA in between meals (1 hour before and/or after), would that be ok?


That's fine mate.

Theophylline in high doses can cause issues, and also it can give you an upset stomach. However in the does in Chesteze you should be fine.


----------



## jaime101

Think I'm going to try a ECA stack now and hold off on the DNP. Starting a new job so don't really want to be on DNP and known as the smelly sweaty guy do I.  Plus the appetite suppressant would do me a wonder if I'm going to be out and about. ( I'm a snacker! ) How good are the DH ECA stack if anyone knows? It's 30mg E/A and 200mg C plus a "secret ingredient?" Know what that is? And is his E the pharma ephedrine or the plant extract?

As for dosage I guess you wean onto it? Probably take half a tablet at morning and the after half around mid-day for a couple days, then move onto a tablet each?


----------



## DiggyV

jaime101 said:


> Think I'm going to try a ECA stack now and hold off on the DNP. Starting a new job so don't really want to be on DNP and known as the smelly sweaty guy do I.  Plus the appetite suppressant would do me a wonder if I'm going to be out and about. ( I'm a snacker! ) How good are the DH ECA stack if anyone knows? It's 30mg E/A and 200mg C plus a "secret ingredient?" Know what that is? And is his E the pharma ephedrine or the plant extract?
> 
> As for dosage I guess you wean onto it? Probably take half a tablet at morning and the after half around mid-day for a couple days, then move onto a tablet each?


The thing with ECA, is that the ratio is critical. Its no good just taking the three and hoping for the best.

the idealised is 1:10:4 (some say 1:10:10) but I noticed no difference with the extra aspirin, and given higher doses can have adverse effects on the stomach, I stick to the lower dose.

If his dose is :

30mg E

200mg C

30mg A

then this is not enough of both the C and A for you to maximise the Eph.

I would suggest that you also take another 100g of caffeine (2 pro plus) and also a 100mg of Aspirin - you can get 200mg tabs - so half of one of these.

Hope this helps.

Have emailed DHacks to see if I can get more info, and will post once I have anything more.


----------



## jaime101

Alright, if I get them I'll pop up to Tesco and get some baby aspirin and pro plus.

So on a half dose it would be 15mg E/A and 100mg Caffeine, so add 50mg caffeine and half a baby aspirin? That takes it to around 1:10:3.5

And on a full dose add in 100mg caffeine and a baby aspirin? That makes it 1:10:3.5 too. That would be fine right?


----------



## DiggyV

jaime101 said:


> Alright, if I get them I'll pop up to Tesco and get some baby aspirin and pro plus.
> 
> So on a half dose it would be 15mg E/A and 100mg Caffeine, so add 50mg caffeine and half a baby aspirin? That takes it to around 1:10:3.5
> 
> And on a full dose add in 100mg caffeine and a baby aspirin? That makes it 1:10:3.5 too. That would be fine right?


Yes be OK. Not baby aspirin in this case mate. Baby aspirin are only 75mg, you need the adult ones @ 200mg.

On full dose add half of one of these, on a half dose you can use the same to be honest as is easier.


----------



## jaime101

Those ratio's are with the 75mg aspirin mate. Had a quick google and Tesco/Asda only sell aspirin 300mg online, and I'd rather not take too much aspirin to save any stomach problems. I'll have a look in stores in a couple days and if they have the 200 one's I'll get them, if not I'll just get the 75mg ones. Thanks for your help and hit me back if you hear from DH about the Eph grade and secret ingredient.


----------



## Outoftoon

4 packs of chesteze on its way


----------



## moviekar

Thanks DiggyV for the extensive OP, a great intro to ECA. Welldone so good that I went out and got all my supplies in for a homebrew ECA stack, the only pain was the none of the Pharmacies would sell more than one pack of Chesteeze(1pack=9 tablets), so had to visit 2xboots, 1xtesco extra to build up my Chesteeze supplies enough to last for next 2 weeks(not a good idea to start a cycle without all the supplies in place I guess..)

Ok have one question for you re the dosage - just want to be absolutely sure :

Do I take

1xchesteeze, 3xProPlus, 1xBabyAspirin

once early in the morning, and another set of the same again early in the evening ?

or

split that one set into 2, and that the halves once in the morning and once in the evening

Thanks


----------



## DiggyV

moviekar said:


> Thanks DiggyV for the extensive OP, a great intro to ECA. Welldone so good that I went out and got all my supplies in for a homebrew ECA stack, the only pain was the none of the Pharmacies would sell more than one pack of Chesteeze(1pack=9 tablets), so had to visit 2xboots, 1xtesco extra to build up my Chesteeze supplies enough to last for next 2 weeks(not a good idea to start a cycle without all the supplies in place I guess..)
> 
> Ok have one question for you re the dosage - just want to be absolutely sure :
> 
> Do I take
> 
> 1xchesteeze, 3xProPlus, 1xBabyAspirin
> 
> once early in the morning, and another set of the same again early in the evening ?
> 
> or
> 
> split that one set into 2, and that the halves once in the morning and once in the evening
> 
> Thanks


The mix is spot on mate: 1 x ChestEze, 3 x ProPlus, 1 x Baby Aspirin

How often you take them is down to you really. Certainly one early morning, however early evening may give problems, as for me anything later than about 4pm and I didn't sleep. As I train early morning, I use to take it about 30 mins before the gym, then was at pretty much full strength by the time I was done with weights and onto cardio. I only used one dose a day as well - but it is all down to the individual.

Also dont go taking any pre-workout that contains Acacia Rigidula while on this, or any other fat burners containing DMAA, Yohimbine, Rauwolscine, Synephrine or the Acacia R as you will down regulate quicker and reduce the efficiency of the ECA faster.

Finally take it as a single dose - dont split the ChestEze - you should feel it as a big hit for the first few days.


----------



## neverminder

I started ECA 6 days ago, standard stack - chesteze, propulus and aspirin - twice a day (6AM and 12AM). My heart rate has increased and I could feel it throbbing every once in a while. Couple days ago I started feeling this strange tightness on the left side of the chest, but though it will pass. Today is the 6th day and as I'm writing this feeling is getting more intense. I'm 31, healthy, no heart issues in family. I've searched online for the same symptoms and it seems I'm not the only one experiencing it. I am on a keto now for 2 weeks, so don't know if this could have influenced this situation.

I'll stop using ECA effective immediatelly, because it's not difficult to see where this can lead. I'll check my blood pressure and other things and maybe in the future give ECA another go with more easing in. I am majorly pi$$ed off though, because I was seeing good results, as long as it lasted. In the mean while I need another fat burner, so I'm thinking of giving albuterol a shot (it's safer then clen?). Opinions?


----------



## DiggyV

neverminder said:


> I started ECA 6 days ago, standard stack - chesteze, propulus and aspirin - twice a day (6AM and 12AM). My heart rate has increased and I could feel it throbbing every once in a while. Couple days ago I started feeling this strange tightness on the left side of the chest, but though it will pass. Today is the 6th day and as I'm writing this feeling is getting more intense. I'm 31, healthy, no heart issues in family. I've searched online for the same symptoms and it seems I'm not the only one experiencing it. I am on a keto now for 2 weeks, so don't know if this could have influenced this situation.
> 
> I'll stop using ECA effective immediatelly, because it's not difficult to see where this can lead. I'll check my blood pressure and other things and maybe in the future give ECA another go with more easing in. I am majorly pi$$ed off though, because I was seeing good results, as long as it lasted. In the mean while I need another fat burner, so I'm thinking of giving albuterol a shot (it's safer then clen?). Opinions?


Best bet is to stop. Ephedrine does have known side effects like tachicardia (rapid heart rate) and arrhythmia (irregular or odd heart rates) and if you get these you should stop immediately. Caffeine can also do this of course.

Have a look at the next step down in terms of strength - perhaps something that contains Rauwolscine - like Lapha Burn or USP OxyElite Pro, both great burners, bit the Rauwolscine has much reduced sides while still burning fat effectively.

One dose a day may have been enough - its all I ever used to run, also you dosed them quite close together so some residual will still have been present for the second dose, and this may have been enough to tip you over the edge.


----------



## theshrew

Ive had the same issues with the heart rate from time to time just by taking Pro Plus quite a few of them actually.


----------



## neverminder

DiggyV said:


> Best bet is to stop. Ephedrine does have known side effects like tachicardia (rapid heart rate) and arrhythmia (irregular or odd heart rates) and if you get these you should stop immediately. Caffeine can also do this of course.
> 
> Have a look at the next step down in terms of strength - perhaps something that contains Rauwolscine - like Lapha Burn or USP OxyElite Pro, both great burners, bit the Rauwolscine has much reduced sides while still burning fat effectively.
> 
> One dose a day may have been enough - its all I ever used to run, also you dosed them quite close together so some residual will still have been present for the second dose, and this may have been enough to tip you over the edge.


Yeah, probably two doses a day screwed me up. What can I say, I got greedy and impatient, was running out of time, already cutting fat for 3 months on calorie deficit. I'll try Albuterol now, heard quite a few good reviews about this one.


----------



## DazUKM

nice info,

1 x Chest-Eze (18mg) - the 'E' part

3 x pro-plus (150mg) - the 'C' part

1 x junior aspirin (75 or 85mg) - the 'A' part

it can all be purchased from boots online? or do you have to get the chest-eze in store


----------



## DiggyV

D9S4 said:


> nice info,
> 
> 1 x Chest-Eze (18mg) - the 'E' part
> 
> 3 x pro-plus (150mg) - the 'C' part
> 
> 1 x junior aspirin (75 or 85mg) - the 'A' part
> 
> it can all be purchased from boots online? or do you have to get the chest-eze in store


You can get it all from Boots, however much better to get the ChestEze on-line. In boots you will be limited to 1 box and if you look like you lift or are athletic then you will be quizzed over why you need it. However if you search Amazon you can buy it direct from there and more than one box!


----------



## DazUKM

DiggyV said:


> You can get it all from Boots, however much better to get the ChestEze on-line. In boots you will be limited to 1 box and if you look like you lift or are athletic then you will be quizzed over why you need it. However if you search Amazon you can buy it direct from there and more than one box!


Thanks


----------



## jaime101

Can you get an allergic reaction to an ECA stack? If so, how quickly does it come on? I had a bad allergy rash last night and today after taking my first pill of D-Hacks ECA yesterday morning, but I've also been on Amoxicillen for a couple days which apparently I took once when I was a child ( along with some other drugs ) and came out in a rash like this, so I'm thinking it was just that.


----------



## DiggyV

jaime101 said:


> Can you get an allergic reaction to an ECA stack? If so, how quickly does it come on? I had a bad allergy rash last night and today after taking my first pill of D-Hacks ECA yesterday morning, but I've also been on Amoxicillen for a couple days which apparently I took once when I was a child ( along with some other drugs ) and came out in a rash like this, so I'm thinking it was just that.


Both of what you are taking can cause a rash. Ephedrine is know to cause a red itchy rash on some people, and the classic symptoms for Penicillin allergy ias yes you guessed it, a red itchy rash.

Stop taking the ECA and see if it goes away, if it does - its the Eph unfortunately. IF it doesn't get yourself back to the Doc and get your medication changed to something like Erythromycin or Ciprofloxacin - depending what the infection being treated is.


----------



## jaime101

I haven't taken Eph since my first dose, and since this morning I'm off the Amoxicillen, so when the rash goes away I'll try up on the Eph again and see how that goes. Pretty certain it was the Amoxicillen though.


----------



## DiggyV

jaime101 said:


> I haven't taken Eph since my first dose, and since this morning I'm off the Amoxicillen, so when the rash goes away I'll try up on the Eph again and see how that goes. Pretty certain it was the Amoxicillen though.


MAke sure you tell the Doc next time mate, the others are just as good, in fact I think better as broad spectrum anti-biotics but cost more.


----------



## ramakentesh

Hi

your description of the pharmacological action of Ephedrine is incorrect. It has little or no inhibitory action on the norepinephrine transporter either centrally or peripherally, rather it indirectly promotes the release of norepinephrine at sympathetic synapses with activate alpha 1 and 2 receptors and to a lesser extent various beta receptors. it also has central actions that are not mediated by inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake or transport.

thanks,


----------



## ramakentesh

Norepinephrine transporter inhibitors do not work as decongestants because they stimulated alpha 2 receptors in the brain which reduce sympathetic outflow and promote decreased vasoconstrictive responses rather than the opposite. Vasoconstrictors - either direct and selective alpha 1 agonists or stimulants like ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are used because of the reasons I outlined above (stimulating release of presynaptic norepinephrine which activates all pressor receptors (peripheral alpha 2 are also pressor receptors in smooth muscle locations). thanks.


----------



## DiggyV

ramakentesh said:


> Hi
> 
> your description of the pharmacological action of Ephedrine is incorrect. It has little or no inhibitory action on the norepinephrine transporter either centrally or peripherally, rather it indirectly promotes the release of norepinephrine at sympathetic synapses with activate alpha 1 and 2 receptors and to a lesser extent various beta receptors. it also has central actions that are not mediated by inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake or transport.
> 
> thanks,


Thats interesting - thanks. Can you point me at some papers please - so I can make the neccessary adjustments - as the couple of sources I used had the information above. Many Thanks


----------



## DazUKM

Is it fine to have caffeine as normal throughout the day? E.g morning coffee or whatever the case may be

Also what about non-active people, could they take this fine?


----------



## DiggyV

D9S4 said:


> Is it fine to have caffeine as normal throughout the day? E.g morning coffee or whatever the case may be
> 
> Also what about non-active people, could they take this fine?


yes mate no trouble!


----------



## Big_Al13

Hi DiggyV,

This has been a great read. It's refreshing to have someone who is willing to go out of their way to provide such good information with sources on an open forum and then continue to reply long after the initial post.

It also has me wondering about starting a stack with a 2 week rotation just to see how it reacts with me. I've got a lot of body fat to lose, and am also on an IF schedule at the moment. I will assume from reading through this that as long as I stay hydrated taking this stack on an empty stomach is not going to cause issues in regard to aspirin due to it being flushed through my system and to a degree diluted down in my stomach.

A question about training though, I train (usually) around 6-7pm due to work, but obviously would look to take a second dose around 2pm so that my sleep isn't disturbed. I would hope that the residual effects of the ECA stack would still be around, but would taking a pre workout like TPW's RAZE hinder the effectiveness of it?  





I've got the best part of a week off next week in which to play around with the dosing and see what effect it has on me so will give it a go and see how I get on with it all. 





Again though, thanks for putting your time and effort in to providing such great information on this. 





Al.


----------



## DiggyV

Big_Al13 said:


> Hi DiggyV,
> 
> This has been a great read. It's refreshing to have someone who is willing to go out of their way to provide such good information with sources on an open forum and then continue to reply long after the initial post.
> 
> It also has me wondering about starting a stack with a 2 week rotation just to see how it reacts with me. I've got a lot of body fat to lose, and am also on an IF schedule at the moment. I will assume from reading through this that as long as I stay hydrated taking this stack on an empty stomach is not going to cause issues in regard to aspirin due to it being flushed through my system and to a degree diluted down in my stomach.
> 
> A question about training though, I train (usually) around 6-7pm due to work, but obviously would look to take a second dose around 2pm so that my sleep isn't disturbed. I would hope that the residual effects of the ECA stack would still be around, but would taking a pre workout like TPW's RAZE hinder the effectiveness of it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got the best part of a week off next week in which to play around with the dosing and see what effect it has on me so will give it a go and see how I get on with it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again though, thanks for putting your time and effort in to providing such great information on this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al.






Thanks for the comments Al  :thumb:





you may be OK running a little later - say 4pm. THis way you will start feeling it about 30 minutes later, and should still be active and working when you hit the gym. If you are off, then have a play and see.





Just had a look at CRAZE, and can see no Alpha or Beta stims in there so you should be OK with this before as well. Start wiyh a lower dose to be sure though pal.





Good Luck  :thumbup1:


----------



## mapes345

Thanks diggy


----------



## Big_Al13

DiggyV said:


> Thanks for the comments Al :thumb:
> 
> you may be OK running a little later - say 4pm. THis way you will start feeling it about 30 minutes later, and should still be active and working when you hit the gym. If you are off, then have a play and see.
> 
> Just had a look at CRAZE, and can see no Alpha or Beta stims in there so you should be OK with this before as well. Start wiyh a lower dose to be sure though pal.
> 
> Good Luck :thumbup1:


Nice, thanks for the quick reply. I'll feedback how I get on.

Have some reps. :thumbup1:


----------



## furrygiblets

Just a quick question guys. Would it be OK to buy 200mg caffeine tablets and take one as they seem to be cheaper than packs and packs of pro plus


----------



## Mez

furrygiblets said:


> Just a quick question guys. Would it be OK to buy 200mg caffeine tablets and take one as they seem to be cheaper than packs and packs of pro plus


I'd say yes.


----------



## Mez

Mez said:


> I'd say yes.


Not sure if @DiggyV can help I heard he's been knocked over by a bus ?

Or was I dreaming it ?


----------



## furrygiblets

Mez said:


> I'd say yes.


Cheers


----------



## DiggyV

Mez said:


> I'd say yes.


^^^^^^^^ this answer  spot on mate 



Mez said:


> Not sure if @DiggyV can help I heard he's been knocked over by a bus ?
> 
> Or was I dreaming it ?


Almost, I basically stumbled, hyperextended by right leg, tore three of the muscles in my right quad in three places (one 7-8 cm long, one 3 cm long and one 1cm long) and then collapse into the back of a bus, using my face to stop. Then slowly slid down it to the floor. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

In hospital Weds and Thurs and in docs yesterday and Physio.

8-12 weeks recovery minimum

treadmil and stationary bike in 10 days

3 weeks until I can train light on upper boddy (no more than 60K chest :sad: - my warm up 20 rep weight :no: )

8 weeks until weight can start getting heavy

12 weeks until ultra light legs can start

Wasn't like I was training either......


----------



## Mez

Usually the way, I was lying on the settee and sat up and I've put another disc out in my back.

I'm on naproxen for 8 weeks(that's the amount of tabs doc has given me).

And can't do any weights that put any pressure on my lumber region.


----------



## DiggyV

Mez said:


> Usually the way, I was lying on the settee and sat up and I've put another disc out in my back.
> 
> I'm on naproxen for 8 weeks(that's the amount of tabs doc has given me).
> 
> And can't do any weights that put any pressure on my lumber region.


[email protected] mate - hope you get better soon. Naproxen is a great anti-inflammatory though - hope it helps.


----------



## Mez

DiggyV said:


> [email protected] mate - hope you get better soon. Naproxen is a great anti-inflammatory though - hope it helps.


Yeah, gonna take it for 2 weeks and save a couple of boxes. I'm doing IF at the minute though and have to take them with food.


----------



## Dazarooni

Hi DiggyV, I've been taking Superpump Max for a while and am going to give the ECA stack a try on Monday to shed a little bodyfat.

Can you see an issue with any of these ingredients that would affect the efficacy of the ECA?

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

Calories 10

Total Carbohydrate 3g 1%†

Vitamin C (As Ascorbic Acid) 30mg 50%

Vitamin B3 (As Inositol Hexanicotinate) 80mg 400%

Vitamin B6 (As Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 3mg 168%

Vitamin B12 (As Methylcobalamin) 10mcg 167%

Calcium 39mg 4%

Phosphorus 69mg 7%

Magnesium 40mg 10%

Sodium 30mg 1%

Potassium 20mg 1%

SUPER PUMP MAX Proprietary Blend 11.3g *

Myo-Vol ElectroHYDRATION Complex

L-Taurine, Calcium, Glycerophosphate, Sodium Glycerophosphate, Sustamine, (L-Alanyl-L-Glutamine), Di-Magnesium Malate, Potassium Phosphate

Nitric OxiENDURANCE Complex

L-Citrulline (2g), Carnipure (L-Carnitine L-Tartrate), L-Ornithine-L-Aspartate, Beet Ext (Beta Vulgaris) (Root)

Branch Chain MTOR Stimulation Blend

L-Leucine (2g), L-Isoleucine, L-Valine

PhosphoDRIVE Signaling Complex

Creatine Monohydrate(1.3g), Creatine Magna Power (Magnesium Creatine Chelate)

CogniDRIVE Acceleration Matrix

L-Tyrosine, Caffeine, Oxytropis Falcate Ext. (Whole Plant), Peak ATP (Adenosine 5'-Triphosphate Disodium), Glucoronalactone

† Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

* Daily Value not established.

Other Ingredients:

Maltodextrin, Citric Acid, Natural & Artificial Flavors, Malic Acid, Silica, Sucralose, Acesulfame Potassium, FD&C Blue #1

I'm quite used to caffeine but have never tried Ephedrine before.

Thanks!


----------



## DiggyV

Dazarooni said:


> Hi DiggyV, I've been taking Superpump Max for a while and am going to give the ECA stack a try on Monday to shed a little bodyfat.
> 
> Can you see an issue with any of these ingredients that would affect the efficacy of the ECA?
> 
> Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
> 
> Calories 10
> 
> Total Carbohydrate 3g 1%†
> 
> Vitamin C (As Ascorbic Acid) 30mg 50%
> 
> Vitamin B3 (As Inositol Hexanicotinate) 80mg 400%
> 
> Vitamin B6 (As Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 3mg 168%
> 
> Vitamin B12 (As Methylcobalamin) 10mcg 167%
> 
> Calcium 39mg 4%
> 
> Phosphorus 69mg 7%
> 
> Magnesium 40mg 10%
> 
> Sodium 30mg 1%
> 
> Potassium 20mg 1%
> 
> SUPER PUMP MAX Proprietary Blend 11.3g *
> 
> Myo-Vol ElectroHYDRATION Complex
> 
> L-Taurine, Calcium, Glycerophosphate, Sodium Glycerophosphate, Sustamine, (L-Alanyl-L-Glutamine), Di-Magnesium Malate, Potassium Phosphate
> 
> Nitric OxiENDURANCE Complex
> 
> L-Citrulline (2g), Carnipure (L-Carnitine L-Tartrate), L-Ornithine-L-Aspartate, Beet Ext (Beta Vulgaris) (Root)
> 
> Branch Chain MTOR Stimulation Blend
> 
> L-Leucine (2g), L-Isoleucine, L-Valine
> 
> PhosphoDRIVE Signaling Complex
> 
> Creatine Monohydrate(1.3g), Creatine Magna Power (Magnesium Creatine Chelate)
> 
> CogniDRIVE Acceleration Matrix
> 
> L-Tyrosine, Caffeine, Oxytropis Falcate Ext. (Whole Plant), Peak ATP (Adenosine 5'-Triphosphate Disodium), Glucoronalactone
> 
> † Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
> 
> * Daily Value not established.
> 
> Other Ingredients:
> 
> Maltodextrin, Citric Acid, Natural & Artificial Flavors, Malic Acid, Silica, Sucralose, Acesulfame Potassium, FD&C Blue #1
> 
> I'm quite used to caffeine but have never tried Ephedrine before.
> 
> Thanks!


NOthing I can see in there that will upset ECA working. :thumb:

ECA, is a significant lift from Caffeine. Works in a completely different manner. Start slow and build up.

Good Luck


----------



## Dazarooni

DiggyV said:


> NOthing I can see in there that will upset ECA working. :thumb:
> 
> ECA, is a significant lift from Caffeine. Works in a completely different manner. Start slow and build up.
> 
> Good Luck


Cheers for the reply Diggy!

I started the ECA today...

8am (upon waking) 1 x chesteze, 3 x pro plus and 1 x aspirin.

For the first hour I didn't really feel much and felt it a bit better after this.

10:30 protein shake with 50g raw oats.

13:00 1 x chesteze, 3 x pro plus and 1 x aspirin

13:30 ham, egg, tuna and lettuce salad.......by this stage I was really feeling the effects of the ECA, I felt jittery and weird to say the least! I felt like this for a fair few hours!

1645 wholewheat pasta, chicken tikka strips and lettuce.... I couldn't finish it, I felt like I couldn't keep it down!

2000: 1 wholewheat pita and some sliced chicken with a handful of nuts. A light snack...

2200 hours now and I don't really feel hungry- I think I've taken in just under 2000 calories on my first day.

The ECA really suppresses the appetite, that's for sure. There's no way I could handle 3 lots of the ECA , I started with 2 and probably should have started with 1 like you said but I'm sure the effects will lessen (jittery and weird).

I plan on taking this for 4 weeks with every Sunday off. Does the appetite suppression wear off after a week or two or do you think it will still be there after the 4 weeks?

Cheers Diggy, really appreciate your helpful information.


----------



## pgray12

Dazarooni said:


> Cheers for the reply Diggy!
> 
> I started the ECA today...
> 
> 8am (upon waking) 1 x chesteze, 3 x pro plus and 1 x aspirin.
> 
> For the first hour I didn't really feel much and felt it a bit better after this.
> 
> 10:30 protein shake with 50g raw oats.
> 
> 13:00 1 x chesteze, 3 x pro plus and 1 x aspirin
> 
> 13:30 ham, egg, tuna and lettuce salad.......by this stage I was really feeling the effects of the ECA, I felt jittery and weird to say the least! I felt like this for a fair few hours!
> 
> 1645 wholewheat pasta, chicken tikka strips and lettuce.... I couldn't finish it, I felt like I couldn't keep it down!
> 
> 2000: 1 wholewheat pita and some sliced chicken with a handful of nuts. A light snack...
> 
> 2200 hours now and I don't really feel hungry- I think I've taken in just under 2000 calories on my first day.
> 
> The ECA really suppresses the appetite, that's for sure. There's no way I could handle 3 lots of the ECA , I started with 2 and probably should have started with 1 like you said but I'm sure the effects will lessen (jittery and weird).
> 
> I plan on taking this for 4 weeks with every Sunday off. Does the appetite suppression wear off after a week or two or do you think it will still be there after the 4 weeks?
> 
> Cheers Diggy, really appreciate your helpful information.


I found appetite suppression lasted for about 3 weeks. i then took 2 weeks off and the suppression is now back. I would advise against upping the dose when you lose the appetite supression/ focus as this may be dangerous, cyclings the way to go.

the jitters will subside in a few days also


----------



## DiggyV

pgray12 said:


> I found appetite suppression lasted for about 3 weeks. i then took 2 weeks off and the suppression is now back. I would advise against upping the dose when you lose the appetite supression/ focus as this may be dangerous, cyclings the way to go.
> 
> the jitters will subside in a few days also


ABSOLUTELY. dont increase the dose, stay on the same for the two weeks.


----------



## Dazarooni

Cheers pgray12 and Diggy, I think that taking the chesteze, pro plus and aspirin at 8am and 1:30-2pm is the maximum I will do. Sundays I will take a break. Today I took the second round at 2pm- 30 mins after a meal and I felt much less jittery and weird. Yesterday I took it half an hour before my meal at 13:30 and it kind of knocked me a bit!

I don't think it should make much difference if I take the second round 30 mins before or 30 mins after the 130pm meal? I mean with regards to the efficacy. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks once again.


----------



## in4cliffs

Good post may want to add in a caffeine warning i your going to bump around with any dosages best not to bump caffeine of 500mg in one go,

took stack of eph hcl-32mg

caffeine 600mg

asp 100m

and was laid in bed sweating core changing like mad and stabbing pains was not good brah to say the least

edit: had been using in cycles for a while previously, just wanted to up caffeine due to feeling particularly useless that day, never again


----------



## DiggyV

in4cliffs said:


> Good post may want to add in a caffeine warning i your going to bump around with any dosages best not to bump caffeine of 500mg in one go,
> 
> took stack of eph hcl-32mg
> 
> caffeine 600mg
> 
> asp 100m
> 
> and was laid in bed sweating core changing like mad and stabbing pains was not good brah to say the least
> 
> edit: had been using in cycles for a while previously, just wanted to up caffeine due to feeling particularly useless that day, never again


Proportions are wrong anyway for best hit.

32mg of Eph would only need 320mg caffeine., and 130mg Aspirin to be the idea E:C:A ratio.


----------



## L11

Just as an update, I was taking 3 doses a day for about 3 weeks, the appetite supression never wore off, although the buzz did slightly.. Took 2 weeks off because I didn't want to build a tolerance.. Took one today because I was flagging at work (kept an emergency one in my locker)... and WOW. The buzz was incredible. Went to the gym 4 hours later and had one of the best workouts in a while, only disappointment was at the end when I went to close grip press 75kg and only managed 8 reps instead of my normal 10..

....Then i realised I'd counted wrong and it was 95kg.

Unbelievable..


----------



## Dazarooni

L11 said:


> Just as an update, I was taking 3 doses a day for about 3 weeks, the appetite supression never wore off, although the buzz did slightly.. Took 2 weeks off because I didn't want to build a tolerance.. Took one today because I was flagging at work (kept an emergency one in my locker)... and WOW. The buzz was incredible. Went to the gym 4 hours later and had one of the best workouts in a while, only disappointment was at the end when I went to close grip press 75kg and only managed 8 reps instead of my normal 10..
> 
> ....Then i realised I'd counted wrong and it was 95kg.
> 
> Unbelievable..


Did you take all doses on an empty stomach? I'm taking one first thing in the morning then breakfast an hour and a half later. I then take one about 5-6 hours later which right now, is 30-45 mins after food. This is because when I started all this on Monday for the first time, the second dose hit me really hard after I took it 30 mins before a meal.


----------



## ConstantCut

Awesome thread


----------



## VHHH90

I going to be running ECA for the next 2 weeks 3 dosings of 18/180/75.

Upon waking: 18E 180C 75A

Pre w/o: 36E 360C 150A

After a 2 week cycle I want to run Yohimbine HCL for 2 weeks. Is this advisable?


----------



## DiggyV

VHHH90 said:


> I going to be running ECA for the next 2 weeks 3 dosings of 18/180/75.
> 
> Upon waking: 18E 180C 75A
> 
> Pre w/o: 36E 360C 150A
> 
> After a 2 week cycle I want to run Yohimbine HCL for 2 weeks. Is this advisable?


You'll get very little from it unfortunately. ECA hit alpha receptors, and the down regulate while on, hence only 2 weeks. Unfortunately the Yohimbine also hits the Alphas and so as the recptors will be downregulated from the ECA the hit from You will be very very light. Need to give teh Alpha Receptors a break, so you will need to take 2 weeks off before running either again.


----------



## VHHH90

DiggyV said:


> You'll get very little from it unfortunately. ECA hit alpha receptors, and the down regulate while on, hence only 2 weeks. Unfortunately the Yohimbine also hits the Alphas and so as the recptors will be downregulated from the ECA the hit from You will be very very light. Need to give teh Alpha Receptors a break, so you will need to take 2 weeks off before running either again.


Thanks for the heads up. Might do a 2 week cycle of Clen post ECA instead. Need to do more research into it though


----------



## LHouston

the caffeine tablets i'll be using in my ECA stack (1x chest-eze , 3x 50mg caffeine tabs , 1x 75mg aspirin) contain 130mg glucose per tablet , will this cause any issues? local shops don't seem to do normal pro plus but i have some arriving at the end of the week...


----------



## DiggyV

LHouston said:


> the caffeine tablets i'll be using in my ECA stack (1x chest-eze , 3x 50mg caffeine tabs , 1x 75mg aspirin) contain 130mg glucose per tablet , will this cause any issues? local shops don't seem to do normal pro plus but i have some arriving at the end of the week...


Nope, no impact to the ECA stack.


----------



## VHHH90

Dear ECA guru 

I was just wondering about timings. Took my first ECA at 9AM, and then want to take another 2x ECA pre workout at about 11:00.

What is the optimum dose timing separation and with regards to its effect on an empty/full stomach. 9AM was on empty and gave me a good kick, but the 11:00 would be following ~650kcals 80g Protein 35g Carbs minimal 6g Fat.


----------



## DiggyV

VHHH90 said:


> Dear ECA guru
> 
> I was just wondering about timings. Took my first ECA at 9AM, and then want to take another 2x ECA pre workout at about 11:00.
> 
> What is the optimum dose timing separation and with regards to its effect on an empty/full stomach. 9AM was on empty and gave me a good kick, but the 11:00 would be following ~650kcals 80g Protein 35g Carbs minimal 6g Fat.


No you don't wan't to be taking another dose so quickly. 4-6 hours between doses really, even on food. If its genuine Eph then you will feel like crap putting that much in so quickly.


----------



## Leonwales

I started ECA today. First go was a great buzz


----------



## murphy2010

does anyone else not bother with the asparin? I read somewhere ages ago its not essential so I never bothered. just do 1x chesteze and 200mg caffeine, would the asparin benefit ontop of this?


----------



## Leonwales

murphy2010 said:


> does anyone else not bother with the asparin? I read somewhere ages ago its not essential so I never bothered. just do 1x chesteze and 200mg caffeine, would the asparin benefit ontop of this?


Thought that's the point of ECA lol?


----------



## DiggyV

murphy2010 said:


> does anyone else not bother with the asparin? I read somewhere ages ago its not essential so I never bothered. just do 1x chesteze and 200mg caffeine, would the asparin benefit ontop of this?


yes, absolutely.

The caffeine is not in there when running ECA as a stimulant, and as its a central nervous stimulant has no direct impact on far burning, without the aspirin you are missing out. The C and the A enhance the action of the Eph by affecting how it interacts with the cellular membranes. The hit and duration from ECA is much better and longer than just EC.


----------



## murphy2010

DiggyV said:


> yes, absolutely.
> 
> The caffeine is not in there when running ECA as a stimulant, and as its a central nervous stimulant has no direct impact on far burning, without the aspirin you are missing out. The C and the A enhance the action of the Eph by affecting how it interacts with the cellular membranes. The hit and duration from ECA is much better and longer than just EC.


I see, next time I cut ill throw in the aspirin


----------



## ConstantCut

Would using ECA and doing cardio be a bad idea? The heart rate would be right up!


----------



## Ginger Ben

BigrR said:


> Would using ECA and doing cardio be a bad idea? The heart rate would be right up!


No, It's fine. Steady state cardio or short blasts of hiit work well on eca.


----------



## DiggyV

Ginger Ben said:


> No, It's fine. Steady state cardio or short blasts of hiit work well on eca.


^^^^^^ what Ben says! However I dont do any HIIT, or Tabata, or spin classes, as my heart rate spikes too high. Stationary bike or incline walking on the treadmill.


----------



## L11

ECA = The only time I could tolerate cardio. Could run for hours.


----------



## ConstantCut

Got my rota of earlies next week and I wont get to the gym until 1630-1700.

In terms of taking ECA, would you suggest taking one upon waking and one before my cardio session at 1700?

I just want to be able to sleep lol! But also I need the energy boost.


----------



## rectus

BigrR said:


> Got my rota of earlies next week and I wont get to the gym until 1630-1700.
> 
> In terms of taking ECA, would you suggest taking one upon waking and one before my cardio session at 1700?
> 
> I just want to be able to sleep lol! But also I need the energy boost.


You'll find that out yourself. I could take ECA and sleep straight after! I was using it as a fat burner rather than a pre-workout so I was taking it whatever time I had to do get 3 doses per day and sometimes that coincided with sleep.


----------



## ConstantCut

Lucky you! May just try splitting the dose into one in the am and one in the pm, with some nytol mid-evening.


----------



## DiggyV

BigrR said:


> Lucky you! May just try splitting the dose into one in the am and one in the pm, with some nytol mid-evening.


Nytol may well be a double edged sword buddy. The active compound in it, DiPhenHydramine HCL, does interesting things to Beta receptors, in that it keeps them at full potency so you don't down-regulate. Downregulation causes ECA to loses its efficiency and hit over time. Pharmacist only Nytol and also a substance called Ketitofen both have this effect on the Betas. ECA also hits the Alpha receptors and these will down regulate as normal as DPH has no impact on this.

So therefore if it does mean that the Beta part of ECA is always having maximum impact you may find that you will just have to take it earlier.


----------



## ConstantCut

I see. Thanks for that reply mate.

I will try taking both ECA capsules late morning tomorrow and see how I get on.


----------



## Leonwales

If you was bigger (fatter) would you have to take more? I gave the lad in work a dose and he never even felt it. First time I took it I was shaking and felt sick. He's looking for something to help with his fat loss.


----------



## DiggyV

Leonwales said:


> If you was bigger (fatter) would you have to take more? I gave the lad in work a dose and he never even felt it. First time I took it I was shaking and felt sick. He's looking for something to help with his fat loss.


Overall mass does affect the amount you need, but also individual tolerance is also a factor. I could take 2 of teh old formula Dexaprine over a day, where I knew some people that took half and thought they were going to die. Also remember the ECA will only account for a 5% (max) lift in metabolic rate. So really the lad at work needs to eat less - exercise more before ECA. It will do so little for him on a 2 week cycle that he probably wont notice it.


----------



## Leonwales

DiggyV said:


> Overall mass does affect the amount you need, but also individual tolerance is also a factor. I could take 2 of teh old formula Dexaprine over a day, where I knew some people that took half and thought they were going to die. Also remember the ECA will only account for a 5% (max) lift in metabolic rate. So really the lad at work needs to eat less - exercise more before ECA. It will do so little for him on a 2 week cycle that he probably wont notice it.


He's started eating less and he is exercising. I thought it might help him because its working for me.


----------



## DiggyV

Leonwales said:


> He's started eating less and he is exercising. I thought it might help him because its working for me.


It will help with the weight loss, and also with appetite suppression, finally also helps with focus and drive. However if your BMR is 2500 cals a day, ECA is only going to help you burn another 125 or so... With exercise this will lift up a bit higher, but you will lose more with diet and exercise. Its normally used later on in a dieting phase to help with the last few pounds as these are stubborn and can be very difficult with diet alone as your body will try to hold onto fat harder than muscle.

However if it helps you then that's good. Everyone reacts differently to things, but cals burned are not massive with ECA.


----------



## DazUKM

@DiggyV would it be ok to take ECA stack as a pre workout before my heavy lifting sessions? (one day a week)?

or is it not clever to use it that way just for the boost


----------



## comfla

Hey @hackskii, @Pscarb, @Tinytom, or @Milky

Could you consider stickying this? I refer people to it all the time...it's pretty solid


----------



## LHouston

If dosing your ECA stack on a 2 week on/2 week off cycle , how long would you advise someone to use an ECA stack for?

For example is a long term 3-6 months usage safe, or will their be diminishing returns the longer you continue to supplement with ECA?


----------



## Dutchguy_Asia

DiggyV said:


> It will help with the weight loss, and also with appetite suppression, finally also helps with focus and drive. However if your BMR is 2500 cals a day, ECA is only going to help you burn another 125 or so... With exercise this will lift up a bit higher, but you will lose more with diet and exercise. Its normally used later on in a dieting phase to help with the last few pounds as these are stubborn and can be very difficult with diet alone as your body will try to hold onto fat harder than muscle.
> 
> However if it helps you then that's good. Everyone reacts differently to things, but cals burned are not massive with ECA.


I had gotten my hands on some Eca but for me it does not help me much appetite wise. Like you said its not much extra burn at all, it did help me in the gym but i found that even though i can handle my drugs well (Dutch guy born to do drugs you know) It really interfered with my sleep. So i had to change when i trained. But boy when i take it i work out a lot harder. Too bad you get used to it fast.

Actually sibutramine helped me more against appetite but that really messed up my sleep. So that is a big no no for me. I need a clear mind for when i work and lack of sleep does not help with that.


----------



## Mickey_B

What an incredible post, much respect Diggy...

I think only you and my neurologist could answer my question!

I have Narcolepsy, my daily meds are:

2 x 200mg Modafinil

6 x 5mg dexamphetamine

1 x 75mg pregabalin

I think you mentioned in an earlier post about how ECA when combined with the old disco-biscuits, will have an enhanced effect. I was wondering if the same would be true of my meds, and as a consequence be a bit on the dangerous side, given the heart rate raising properties of the stack.


----------



## StackHouse

Great post! This is a good overview on ECA Stacks, ephedra and ephedrine. Just to add, Kaizen Nutrition provides a quality product for ephedrine and Xtreme Thermoburn is a popular and effective ECA Stack.


----------



## DiggyV

Thank you for the comment and for the info! 



StackHouse said:


> Great post! This is a good overview on ECA Stacks, ephedra and ephedrine. Just to add, Kaizen Nutrition provides a quality product for ephedrine and Xtreme Thermoburn is a popular and effective ECA Stack.


----------



## Dazarooni

DiggyV said:


> Thank you for the comment and for the info!


Congratulations on your moderator status.  Perhaps one of your first duties can be to give this this excellent thread the status it deserves and add it to the sticky list?


----------



## DiggyV

Dazarooni said:


> Congratulations on your moderator status.  Perhaps one of your first duties can be to give this this excellent thread the status it deserves and add it to the sticky list?


I may well raise it with the other Mods and Lorian...


----------



## abcplumb

Hi diggyV

Great post :thumb:

Quick question, which may have been answered already but it's a very long thread to read through.

By the way I have read it all last month.

You mentioned the optimum ratio for this home stack is:

1x Chest Eze(18.31mg ephedrine + 30mg caffeine)

3x Pro Plus (150mg caffeine)

1x 75mcg aspirin

I would like to know would there be any issue in potency if I replace the pro plus to the go nutrition caffeine pill which contains 200mg in 1 pill?

I only take 1 dose early in the morning, always before 9am

Reason for my ? Is im trying to lose fat desperately.

I've started 30-50g of carbs since Monday and my 1 refeed day is Sunday.

It's hard training when carbs are low so looking for a boost from the eca

Not getting much with only 1 dose.

Also doing IF so training is always on a empty stomach. Training at around 7-8am feeding starts from 1pm - 8pm

Can I take 2x Chest Eze 1x 200mcg caffeine 1x aspirin ?

Sorry for the long post 

Can't wait for your response.


----------



## DiggyV

abcplumb said:


> Hi diggyV
> 
> Great post :thumb:
> 
> Quick question, which may have been answered already but it's a very long thread to read through.
> 
> By the way I have read it all last month.
> 
> You mentioned the optimum ratio for this home stack is:
> 
> 1x Chest Eze(18.31mg ephedrine + 30mg caffeine)
> 
> 3x Pro Plus (150mg caffeine)
> 
> 1x 75mcg aspirin
> 
> I would like to know would there be any issue in potency if I replace the pro plus to the go nutrition caffeine pill which contains 200mg in 1 pill?
> 
> I only take 1 dose early in the morning, always before 9am
> 
> Reason for my ? Is im trying to lose fat desperately.
> 
> I've started 30-50g of carbs since Monday and my 1 refeed day is Sunday.
> 
> It's hard training when carbs are low so looking for a boost from the eca
> 
> Not getting much with only 1 dose.
> 
> Also doing IF so training is always on a empty stomach. Training at around 7-8am feeding starts from 1pm - 8pm
> 
> Can I take 2x Chest Eze 1x 200mcg caffeine 1x aspirin ?
> 
> Sorry for the long post
> 
> Can't wait for your response.


Should be no difference in potency, but more caffeine won't mean more weightloss. Caffeine is a central nervous stimulant, and not direct acting on fat burning. It works in conjunction with the aspirin to enhance and prolong the action of the ephedrine.

A few more stats would help. 

Weight

Cals eaten

Height

Rough bf%

Training plan

I prefer IF to keto, and can still lose 2lb a week On this method.

If you don't want to post it all here PM me


----------



## abcplumb

Nah I don't mind embarrassing myself :crying:

30 year old male, 5'11" height 98kg waist: 45" (2 years ago I was 120kg with a waist of 50")

30%+ BF

1600-2000 calories, all from fat and proteins, very small amount from carbs.

Training 3 x week weights with 1 day cardio.

I would like to do more weights but I'm always in pain for almost 2 days after a good workout.

I'm doing IF and keto, it's been a week on this. Before this it was only IF.

Really just want to lose the fat around the stomach, which is always the last place to go.

I know diet is 80% of fat lose but it is also the hardest. My diet has improved drasticly.

Been very tempted to try DNP :cursing:

What do you think Boss?


----------



## DiggyV

abcplumb said:


> Nah I don't mind embarrassing myself :crying:
> 
> 30 year old male, 5'11" height 98kg waist: 45" (2 years ago I was 120kg with a waist of 50")
> 
> 30%+ BF
> 
> 1600-2000 calories, all from fat and proteins, very small amount from carbs.
> 
> Training 3 x week weights with 1 day cardio.
> 
> I would like to do more weights but I'm always in pain for almost 2 days after a good workout.
> 
> I'm doing IF and keto, it's been a week on this. Before this it was only IF.
> 
> Really just want to lose the fat around the stomach, which is always the last place to go.
> 
> I know diet is 80% of fat lose but it is also the hardest. My diet has improved drasticly.
> 
> Been very tempted to try DNP :cursing:
> 
> What do you think Boss?


couple of things:

1/. you can do this - I have, if I can you can. I went from 106Kg and almost 40%BF to 95Kg and sub 15% BF

2/. DNP is not the right choice right now

3/. carry on working out fasted. see lower for timings on food though.

4/. add some carbs - get to 100g a day, ideally a few of them late at night (20g) - I know this seems counter to what people tell you, but late night carbs help control leptin better. This means you will feel less hungry in the morning, and able to control any cravings better.

5/. drop the cals to no more than 1600 (its how I did it) - look at around 100g carbs a day - I use myfitnesspal.com - if you need help setting up a set of correct splits on this (carbs/fats/protein) holler as the base one will be wrong for you.

6/. hit the weights - they may hurt for 2 days, but if you persevere these will diminish. Yes you'll still hurt but it will be less, and bearable  Go heavy and moderate reps. This will burn more calories than just cardio in two ways, a/. because you continue to burn additional calories long after the session is finished and b/. it build more muscle, this will raise you base metabolic rate = more calories burned.

7/. weight sessions should be no more than 30/35/40 mins if training on your own, an hour if with a partner.

8/. almost no rest between sets. I still train with this intensity, and am still growing muscle at 47.

9/. train with weights 3 or 4 times a week, but no more.

10/. do a cardio session after each session. firstly this will help reduce the lactic acid in your muscles, so you will not ache as much (ask if you want more info on this) but secondly and obviously it will burn more cals. Do inclined walking, but dont hold on when doing it. Aim for 10 mins at 5-5.5 Kh/h at 5% incline. build up as you feel able - but push yourself a little each day - get up to it is 5.5-6km/h 10% and 20-30 mins.

11/. go for a walk a couple of times a week on non training days.

12/. if you have a smart phone, get MyFitnessPal app and also Endomondo - one tracks cals, the other is a pedometer for your walking days. - in my fitnesspal you can add in not just your food but your exercise - including weights and there is a quick way of doing this instead of using the individual weight exercise area. If you do use it, ping me and i'll explain.

13/. on food - other than late night carbs, don't eat after 8PM, and no earlier than an hour after you finish training. The exception is a shake, get down a low carb shake as soon as you can after you finish training. I use phd Diet Whey, 2 scoops - choc Orange is fantastic. Its already in my fitness pal for calories. split the rest of the macros through the day. Dont worry about eating every x hours, fit it in around your lifestyle.

It may seem like a lot, but I did it this way. It works. Some of it is not according to the accepted views, but hey, we're not all made the same...


----------



## abcplumb

DiggyV

YOU ARE A LEGEND!

In this money hungry world we live in people wanna charge for that advise, and you just gave it to me. You don't even know me from Adam. Maximum respect for that, God Bless.

One big problem I've just come across.

Started my low carb on Monday, its Saturday and my stool is as if I'm giving birth.

Thank god its refeed day tomorrow.

Anything you recommend to take during the week to help me next time I'm in the toilet?

Also I do 20mins light cardio before the weights so I'm nice and warm.

I always find it hard to train when my body is cold.

I think I'll drop that down to 10mins then hit the weights.

Can't wait for tomorrow morning....Sunday morning is measurement time


----------



## DiggyV

abcplumb said:


> DiggyV
> 
> YOU ARE A LEGEND!
> 
> In this money hungry world we live in people wanna charge for that advise, and you just gave it to me. You don't even know me from Adam. Maximum respect for that, God Bless.
> 
> One big problem I've just come across.
> 
> Started my low carb on Monday, its Saturday and my stool is as if I'm giving birth.
> 
> Thank god its refeed day tomorrow.
> 
> Anything you recommend to take during the week to help me next time I'm in the toilet?
> 
> Also I do 20mins light cardio before the weights so I'm nice and warm.
> 
> I always find it hard to train when my body is cold.
> 
> I think I'll drop that down to 10mins then hit the weights.
> 
> Can't wait for tomorrow morning....Sunday morning is measurement time


No worries. This is how the forum should operate, we share knowledge. :thumb:

Don't run carbs so low - see point 4 (I have added to it). Also look at Psyllium Husk - cheap as chips off ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PSYLLIUM-HUSK-CAPSULES-High-Strength-750mg-DIGESTIVE-AID-DETOX-COLON-CLEANSE-/251262907286?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies&hash=item3a806fb396

its a soluble fibre (sometimes marketed as a laxative or colon cleanse - but its not it just fibre keeps you regular and zero cals) - also helps as an appetite suppressant. Basically it expands in your stomach and makes you feel full. I sometimes take 2 x 750mg caps between meals to stop cravings. But take with LOTS of water - a big 330ml glass is ideal. This will help your problem above


----------



## abcplumb

Thanks again DiggyV

I didn't drop much after going 6 days with low carbs. :confused1:

I think this week Im going to go 4 days on low carbs, or as you suggested 100g a day. Will this be low enough to get me into ketosis ?


----------



## DiggyV

abcplumb said:


> Thanks again DiggyV
> 
> I didn't drop much after going 6 days with low carbs. :confused1:
> 
> I think this week Im going to go 4 days on low carbs, or as you suggested 100g a day. Will this be low enough to get me into ketosis ?


NO it wont, but then you don't need keto to lose weight, but it is a personal choice. Plenty of threads and entries here on Keto, so best to seek out an expert as I dont like it as a method of weight loss.

Also I modulate my cals per day based on workouts. I dont run the same each day. On non-training days it is lowest, and the cals increased in line with training intensity and duration on training days. 100g or a little under is a non-training day level.


----------



## abcplumb

Ok

Sorry I still can't PM you so this is my only way of asking questions.

5/. drop the cals to no more than 1600 (its how I did it) - look at around 100g carbs a day - I use myfitnesspal.com - if you need help setting up a set of correct splits on this (carbs/fats/protein) *holler as the base one will be wrong for you.*

*
*

Don't understand that bit:blush:


----------



## DiggyV

IF you use MyFitnessPal the target macro breakdown they give you will be wrong as carbs will be too high.


----------



## abcplumb

DiggyV said:


> IF you use MyFitnessPal the target macro breakdown they give you will be wrong as carbs will be too high.


Oh ok

So how should I set my 1600 calories on non-training days and 2000 calories on training day? (If that's the target for MAX Fat lose)


----------



## Almateus

Hi have skimmed through most of this thread, very interesting.

I'm female 32 years old healthy, not heart or BP problems.

I'm interested in losing that last bit of dam weight that won't ****, I'm a mother of four and have gone from 12 stone ( i'm 5'7" by the way ) down to down to 9 stones from diet and exercise.

I was offered some T5's from a copper friend on FB lol white powder capsules, took one half an hour before exercising and REALLY helped my cardio, which is all I do and am interested in doing really, I felt I could run on and wasn't at all flagging like I usually do as certain speeds and times etc.

He only gave me five to try and after 2 days i went to buy a tub, £25 and when i got home they were browny coloured and I took one and dont feel the same BUZZ or kick.

I'm guessing the white ones have ephidrine in and the brown not or a herbal version perhaps. I don't know the combination of stuff in either ...

SO lol I'm thinking of trying the Chesteze thing, NOW as I'm only wanting to take one dose in the AM before going to the gym, is it okay to take 2 x chesteze with 3 pro plus and an asprin ??? my thinking is that most the ECA stacks i have seen have about 30-60 of Ephidrine in them and the chesteze only 18.5.

I'm kinda assuming the chesteze will give the energy kick i would like to help me work harder and longer on my cardio, basically i just run steady state on the tredmil but the longer ican go the more calories i can but perhaps at a better rate and lose that STUBBORN ass fat lol

I eat healthy and work out and just need that extra help at the gym..

so back to point will

2 X chesteze

3 X pro plus

1 X asprin

Once daily pre AM work out KILL ME lol not at all intended for long term, and im kinda well disciplined i wont end up a junkie lol

thanks in advance

kat


----------



## DiggyV

Almateus said:


> Hi have skimmed through most of this thread, very interesting.
> 
> I'm female 32 years old healthy, not heart or BP problems.
> 
> I'm interested in losing that last bit of dam weight that won't ****, I'm a mother of four and have gone from 12 stone ( i'm 5'7" by the way ) down to down to 9 stones from diet and exercise.
> 
> I was offered some T5's from a copper friend on FB lol white powder capsules, took one half an hour before exercising and REALLY helped my cardio, which is all I do and am interested in doing really, I felt I could run on and wasn't at all flagging like I usually do as certain speeds and times etc.
> 
> He only gave me five to try and after 2 days i went to buy a tub, £25 and when i got home they were browny coloured and I took one and dont feel the same BUZZ or kick.
> 
> I'm guessing the white ones have ephidrine in and the brown not or a herbal version perhaps. I don't know the combination of stuff in either ...
> 
> SO lol I'm thinking of trying the Chesteze thing, NOW as I'm only wanting to take one dose in the AM before going to the gym, is it okay to take 2 x chesteze with 3 pro plus and an asprin ??? my thinking is that most the ECA stacks i have seen have about 30-60 of Ephidrine in them and the chesteze only 18.5.
> 
> I'm kinda assuming the chesteze will give the energy kick i would like to help me work harder and longer on my cardio, basically i just run steady state on the tredmil but the longer ican go the more calories i can but perhaps at a better rate and lose that STUBBORN ass fat lol
> 
> I eat healthy and work out and just need that extra help at the gym..
> 
> so back to point will
> 
> 2 X chesteze
> 
> 3 X pro plus
> 
> 1 X asprin
> 
> Once daily pre AM work out KILL ME lol not at all intended for long term, and im kinda well disciplined i wont end up a junkie lol
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> kat


don't take two chesteze, it wont be pleasant. :lol:

Stick with the single dose as per the main article here, it should give you at least the same hit as the T5s you had. The ratio of E:C:A is important even if 2 were OK the ratio would need to be 2 x chesteze, 6 x proplus and 2 x baby aspirin. BUt please dont do this stick to 1 x ce, 3 x pp, 1 x ba 75mg.

cycle it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off as well, it drops in efficiency as your receptors down regulate. If you take it every other day say MOn wed fri then you should be OK longer. it depends when your training days are.

did you read all of the opening post though?


----------



## Almateus

DiggyV said:


> don't take two chesteze, it wont be pleasant. :lol:
> 
> Stick with the single dose as per the main article here, it should give you at least the same hit as the T5s you had. The ratio of E:C:A is important even if 2 were OK the ratio would need to be 2 x chesteze, 6 x proplus and 2 x baby aspirin. BUt please dont do this stick to 1 x ce, 3 x pp, 1 x ba 75mg.
> 
> cycle it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off as well, it drops in efficiency as your receptors down regulate. If you take it every other day say MOn wed fri then you should be OK longer. it depends when your training days are.
> 
> did you read all of the opening post though?


Hi Yeah I read all the opening bit, it was late mind LOL..

Okay I see, I am only looking for that kick in the gym, nothing much more to be honest.

I train well as in run, row and xtrain ( all cardio bar bit of pulling on the rower ) everyday, certainly at the very least 5 days a week and sometimes twice aday LOL I am trying to cut down to maybe 4 days even 3 perhaps as its not good really thrashing my self so much everyday, so another thing with the ECA's is if i can work harder and longer in the gym i dont have to go so often, well thats my thinking, just do 3/4 mega work outs instead of 7/8 or nine over a full week with no breaks, last month i didnt have a single day without going and im flagging because of it :/

and thank you for the reply, i have 2 white ones which seem to give me the kick left and a tub of these browny coloured ones im not so sure about LOL so might randomly pick up some chesteze FOR MY MUM  at the chemist later on and give the single dose a while if they work big the brownies off LOL

thanks


----------



## Almateus

heavens above my spelling and grammar are terrible SORRY lol


----------



## Wardy33

Almateus said:


> Hi have skimmed through most of this thread, very interesting.
> 
> I'm female 32 years old healthy, not heart or BP problems.
> 
> I'm interested in losing that last bit of dam weight that won't ****, I'm a mother of four and have gone from 12 stone ( i'm 5'7" by the way ) down to down to 9 stones from diet and exercise.
> 
> I was offered some T5's from a copper friend on FB lol white powder capsules, took one half an hour before exercising and REALLY helped my cardio, which is all I do and am interested in doing really, I felt I could run on and wasn't at all flagging like I usually do as certain speeds and times etc.
> 
> He only gave me five to try and after 2 days i went to buy a tub, £25 and when i got home they were browny coloured and I took one and dont feel the same BUZZ or kick.
> 
> I'm guessing the white ones have ephidrine in and the brown not or a herbal version perhaps. I don't know the combination of stuff in either ...
> 
> SO lol I'm thinking of trying the Chesteze thing, NOW as I'm only wanting to take one dose in the AM before going to the gym, is it okay to take 2 x chesteze with 3 pro plus and an asprin ??? my thinking is that most the ECA stacks i have seen have about 30-60 of Ephidrine in them and the chesteze only 18.5.
> 
> I'm kinda assuming the chesteze will give the energy kick i would like to help me work harder and longer on my cardio, basically i just run steady state on the tredmil but the longer ican go the more calories i can but perhaps at a better rate and lose that STUBBORN ass fat lol
> 
> I eat healthy and work out and just need that extra help at the gym..
> 
> so back to point will
> 
> 2 X chesteze
> 
> 3 X pro plus
> 
> 1 X asprin
> 
> Once daily pre AM work out KILL ME lol not at all intended for long term, and im kinda well disciplined i wont end up a junkie lol
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> kat


I've taken up to 5 chest eze a day before.. start off low like 2 a day space them about 8-12 hours apart and you'll be ok. Up doseage as you please. Best results so got was 3 just before training  I love amphetamines hehe good luck


----------



## DiggyV

Wardy33 said:


> I've taken up to 5 chest eze a day before.. start off low like 2 a day space them about 8-12 hours apart and you'll be ok. Up doseage as you please. Best results so got was 3 just before training  I love amphetamines hehe good luck


just dont start taking 2 together.


----------



## DrRinse

Also, bear this in mind. It's called Ephedrine-Induced Psychosis. I did 90/200/300 Eph/Caffeine/Aspirin split into 3 doses. It won't effect everyone but it did effect enough people to have the FDA ban it in 2004. I was hearing people talking in different accents, words were all jumbled up, I couldn't write properly, I was hot sweaty, disorientated, getting heart palpitations, was depersonalised, derealised, dizzy and unbalanced. I sacked that junk in the bin. I found T3 better, side-effect free and effective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC474739/


----------



## DiggyV

DrRinse said:


> Also, bear this in mind. It's called Ephedrine-Induced Psychosis. I did 90/200/300 Eph/Caffeine/Aspirin split into 3 doses. It won't effect everyone but it did effect enough people to have the FDA ban it in 2004. I was hearing people talking in different accents, words were all jumbled up, I couldn't write properly, I was hot sweaty, disorientated, getting heart palpitations, was depersonalised, derealised, dizzy and unbalanced. I sacked that junk in the bin. I found T3 better, side-effect free and effective.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC474739/


bloody hell mate 5 chesteze, no wonder you were in trouble. and TBH lucky as well, as some people have not come out of it so well, or at all.

Eph was a big hit in the 60s and 70s as well, because it provided an alternative to other controlled drugs like amphetamines. Clearly you have found out why.


----------



## DrRinse

DiggyV said:


> bloody hell mate 5 chesteze, no wonder you were in trouble. and TBH lucky as well, as some people have not come out of it so well, or at all.
> 
> Eph was a big hit in the 60s and 70s as well, because it provided an alternative to other controlled drugs like amphetamines. Clearly you have found out why.


I was following the 30/65/100 method I read here or on some other forum but considering I can get 1000 eph for less than a vial of WC TEST E shows to me how filthy that stuff is. Never again!


----------



## Adz

Gonna give some ECA a go next week to help drop some fat, will post up how I get on.

Did some Clen in summer and it helped drop a bit but made me sweat like mad all night, will ECA do the same?


----------



## DiggyV

Shouldn't make you sweat as much, if at all at night. Also it's a little different action to clen. Firstly don't take it much after 4 in the afternoon or you won't sleep. While it is effective it's not as effective as clen so don't expect the same results.


----------



## Adz

Thanks, gonna take 1 first thing in morning before my cardio then if I feel ok 1 around 12pm.


----------



## Adz

Is it normal for ECA to make you feel proper horny?

As it is doing with me!


----------



## Ginger Ben

Adz The Rat said:


> Is it normal for ECA to make you feel proper horny?
> 
> As it is doing with me!


Gives me billy willy so would be a bloody waste if it did that too lol


----------



## DiggyV

Adz The Rat said:


> Is it normal for ECA to make you feel proper horny?
> 
> As it is doing with me!


new one on me mate  you on cycle as well or just ECA.

ONly think i could think is that its given you an energy boost, and its manifested itself in a different way for you :lol:


----------



## Adz

Just on ECA mate, trying to get mrs pregnant so staying off anything else for a while.

Yea full of energy so it's deffo helping lol


----------



## SkipsnQuips

Adz The Rat said:


> Is it normal for ECA to make you feel proper horny?
> 
> As it is doing with me!


ECA compleltly ruins my dick. I can't even get it up on ECA.


----------



## SkipsnQuips

Anyone have any experience of ECA on a PSMF?


----------



## DiggyV

SkipsnQuips said:


> Anyone have any experience of ECA on a PSMF?


Are you on a PSMF because you are looking to lose a lot of weight quickly, which is why it was devised? If so I am guessing you have a bit to lose and ECA wont really be that beneficial for baseline weightloss. However what it will help with is your appetite. It suppresses appetite quite nicely, so will help with cravings.

A bit more detail of goals, and where you are will help greatly.


----------



## ConstantCut

Bit of a random one, and quite possibly a stupid question....

What benefits does ECA offer on non-workout days? Do you guys take ECA regardless if you are working out (I like it as a PWO also) or just on set days when you are training. For example if all I was doing was walking at work (postman) all day, would ECA offer any benefits as opposed to me not taking it on that particular day?


----------



## Prince Adam

ConstantCut said:


> Bit of a random one, and quite possibly a stupid question....
> 
> What benefits does ECA offer on non-workout days? Do you guys take ECA regardless if you are working out (I like it as a PWO also) or just on set days when you are training. For example if all I was doing was walking at work (postman) all day, would ECA offer any benefits as opposed to me not taking it on that particular day?


Appetite suppressant


----------



## DiggyV

ConstantCut said:


> Bit of a random one, and quite possibly a stupid question....
> 
> What benefits does ECA offer on non-workout days? Do you guys take ECA regardless if you are working out (I like it as a PWO also) or just on set days when you are training. For example if all I was doing was walking at work (postman) all day, would ECA offer any benefits as opposed to me not taking it on that particular day?





Prince Adam said:


> Appetite suppressant


It will also contribute to extra calorie burn, but nothing very significant TBH.


----------



## chris.gsxf

Can anyone help please. A few years back i got some ephedrine pills with "atom" written on them. They were fantastic and worked a treat. Ive had a few different lots since and they have all had little or no effect on me. I have tried buying from a few different sources but they all seem the same. Has anyone seen these atom pills lately or know of any really good ones?


----------



## chris.gsxf

I struggle with my appetite and the old ones i got helped massively. The new ones i see around now do next to nothing. Any advice massively appreciated. I tried clenbutarol but cant cope with the shakes i get off them!


----------



## kreig

Good eph is hard to come by these days, the easiest way to get guaranteed quality is to by chest eze tablets from Amazon


----------



## chris.gsxf

How do the chest eze tablets work? I used to take 6 ephedrine per day. Is it safe to take chesteze the same way. Id never heard of it till now


----------



## chris.gsxf

Jesus. Just had a look. Only ones i can find are $36 for 9 tablets. Are they normally that expensive?


----------



## chris.gsxf

Sorry scrap that last comment. Ive just found some for £2.20. Ive ordered some to try. Whats the best way to use them?


----------



## DiggyV

chris.gsxf said:


> Sorry scrap that last comment. Ive just found some for £2.20. Ive ordered some to try. Whats the best way to use them?


Read the first post in this thread. Everything is in there on how to dose it and how much caffeine and aspirin to us. If you took 6 chesteze, you'd be very unwell.


----------



## chris.gsxf

thanks for all the help guys


----------



## rfclee

couple of questions on this guys! I work 7am-7pm so normally would go to the gym after work, would I still take this in the morning and lunch time then work out at night ?

Also is it best running 4 weeks on 4 weeks off?

Also I know from reading a few posts it can be tricky getting hold of chesteze so I seen you can get it on amazon 9 for £2.19, has anybody got it from there before ? It does say they may email you asking for more info but I was only planning on maybe buying one or two to avoid suspicion.


----------



## DiggyV

rfclee said:


> couple of questions on this guys! I work 7am-7pm so normally would go to the gym after work, would I still take this in the morning and lunch time then work out at night ?
> 
> Also is it best running 4 weeks on 4 weeks off?
> 
> Also I know from reading a few posts it can be tricky getting hold of chesteze so I seen you can get it on amazon 9 for £2.19, has anybody got it from there before ? It does say they may email you asking for more info but I was only planning on maybe buying one or two to avoid suspicion.


No, if you take it anywhere after about 4pm its unlikely that you will sleep. Also start with a single dose each day to see how you get on. If using the home brew Chesteze stack then 18mg of pharma ephedrine packs quite a punch. TRy a single dose say between 1 and 2 pm and see how you go.

If you read the first post (which you should have) then you would know its 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.


----------



## rfclee

DiggyV said:


> No, if you take it anywhere after about 4pm its unlikely that you will sleep. Also start with a single dose each day to see how you get on. If using the home brew Chesteze stack then 18mg of pharma ephedrine packs quite a punch. TRy a single dose say between 1 and 2 pm and see how you go.
> 
> If you read the first post (which you should have) then you would know its 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.


cheers, I will go with the single dose maybe for my first cycle see how it goes. Was only really looking to use it a few months into my cut to help with weight loss.


----------



## DiggyV

rfclee said:


> cheers, I will go with the single dose maybe for my first cycle see how it goes. Was only really looking to use it a few months into my cut to help with weight loss.


its also good at taking the edge of appetite, which will help also.


----------



## Mk-

Great guide, very helpful.

I've recently started my own ECA stack following advice from a few members of this site, however I'm unsure of specific amounts I should be taking, here is what I have at the moment.

45x DoDo ChestEze (18.3mg ephredrine per tab)

100x DN Deluxe Nutriton Caffeine (200mg per tab)

48x Regular Aspirin (75mg)

250g DN Deluxe Nutrition Tub of Taurine (unsure on daily dosage haven't used it atm)

So far I've taken 1 of each but I've noticed it's not as strong as a previous T5 I used to take so I was wondering how I could up the effects without taking too much?

Thanks in advance


----------



## DiggyV

Either try running 1.5 of each or take two doses through the day. Also don't confuse buzz with the fact that it is working or not. I lost more using this variant than I did using Dexaprine (the original formula), and that suff made me feel like I was on speed.


----------



## Mk-

Understand what you're saying but the buzz is the thing that helps me work at 100%, I'll try 1.5 and see how it works out.

Any advice on Taurine? I picked it up because it was on offer and heard a few good things about mixing it with am ECA stack? At the moment I'm taking 3mg per ECA Stack.


----------



## DiggyV

Mk- said:


> Understand what you're saying but the buzz is the thing that helps me work at 100%, I'll try 1.5 and see how it works out.
> 
> Any advice on Taurine? I picked it up because it was on offer and heard a few good things about mixing it with am ECA stack? At the moment I'm taking 3mg per ECA Stack.


Never used it with ECA, really Taurine is used to help blood flow and reduce pumps, it will have no direct effect on effectiveness of the ECA. When I take it for shin pumps I am running 3000mg / 3g not 3mg


----------



## Mk-

Sorry I meant 3g, lol

Thanks for your help


----------



## rfclee

Soo today had my first dose, done 30mins cardio on the bike in the morning then took 1x chesteze 1xBBW caffeine pill 200mg 1x aspirin 75mg just before the gym around 12:30.

Felt really good no side affects apart from a little shaking towards the end of my work out but faded not long after I left, going to stick with a single dosage for the first week then add 1 in the morning and one around lunch time if all goes well and I will cycle 2 on 2 off. In terms of cardio is it ok to do HIIT ? I normally do steady pace bike in the morning but like to add 1 or 2 HIIT sessions a week.


----------



## LionRampant

I just bought some asprin for a ECA stack, they are 300mg not 75mg. Can i just take 1/4 of the aspin with the stack?


----------



## kreig

Yep it doesn't have to be exact


----------



## DiggyV

weesteve said:


> I just bought some asprin for a ECA stack, they are 300mg not 75mg. Can i just take 1/4 of the aspin with the stack?


as per the other thread, get a pill splitter from Boots. Say its for your nan to split her aspirin up. lol



blitz2163 said:


> Yep it doesn't have to be exact


it needs to be pretty accurate TBH from experiments I did on myself. If you run 1:10:2 the effect wears off noticeably quicker.


----------



## kreig

If it needs to be that close then baby aspirin is probably a better bet as there's no guarantee the active compound is evenly spread through the tab


----------



## DiggyV

blitz2163 said:


> If it needs to be that close then baby aspirin is probably a better bet as there's no guarantee the active compound is evenly spread through the tab


that's the one I recommend TBH. :thumb:


----------



## LionRampant

Ah  Just bought 2 packs of 300mg aswell haha


----------



## DiggyV

weesteve said:


> Ah  Just bought 2 packs of 300mg aswell haha


you could just split them in half rather than quarters. Yes you'll get 1:10:8, but some run 1:10:10 But I see no difference to 1:10:4 so you'll be fine. Cycle it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.


----------



## Matt1992

I've just done my second day of DIY ECA stack and so far so good! I've done half a dose in the morning and half a dose at 1pm whilst doing interment fasting and I am happy with results although the appetite suppression wasn't as good as i thought it would be. Basically my I still felt hungry however i'm not sure if it's actual hunger or just my stomach bored! No cravings so all good, the two gym sessions i had were great as well; i had more energy and didn't struggle with any exercises even towards the end.

Got a question; is it normal that whilst taking ECA my 'bowel movement' is more frequent that usual, is it the caffeine or perhaps aspirin?


----------



## jimbatt

Caffeine makes my bowels move, really move!


----------



## DiggyV

Matt1992 said:


> I've just done my second day of DIY ECA stack and so far so good! I've done half a dose in the morning and half a dose at 1pm whilst doing interment fasting and I am happy with results although the appetite suppression wasn't as good as i thought it would be. Basically my I still felt hungry however i'm not sure if it's actual hunger or just my stomach bored! No cravings so all good, the two gym sessions i had were great as well; i had more energy and didn't struggle with any exercises even towards the end.
> 
> Got a question; is it normal that whilst taking ECA my 'bowel movement' is more frequent that usual, is it the caffeine or perhaps aspirin?


Unlikely to be the aspirin, more likely to be the caffeine.


----------



## kreig

Stims in general work better than any laxative for me within a couple of minutes of taking my morning dose it's time to visit the toilet


----------



## staffs_lad

blitz2163 said:


> Stims in general work better than any laxative for me within a couple of minutes of taking my morning dose it's time to visit the toilet


Get the same sort of thing before i hit the gym... the pre-gym **** has become quite a ritual and lets me know that the stims are nicely kicked in and it's time to train.

Must looked like a right nut today buzzing my tits of, listening to motorhead all whilst curling one out.


----------



## Matt1992

Day 3 done and dusted only done half a dose x2, at 5am and 1pm and the effects are still good however I'm thinking about upping the dose next week after the weekend off? Realistically is there any chance of getting addicted to it if taken too long?


----------



## DiggyV

Matt1992 said:


> Day 3 done and dusted only done half a dose x2, at 5am and 1pm and the effects are still good however I'm thinking about upping the dose next week after the weekend off? Realistically is there any chance of getting addicted to it if taken too long?


not really as the receptors you hit with the eph down regulate, so you only get 2 good weeks out of it really 3 at the most, even if you load in a lot - dont as it would be bad for you.

get to 2 weeks and take 2 off then resume for another 2 weeks on if needed.


----------



## Macky1986

DiggyV said:


> not really as the receptors you hit with the eph down regulate, so you only get 2 good weeks out of it really 3 at the most, even if you load in a lot - dont as it would be bad for you.
> 
> get to 2 weeks and take 2 off then resume for another 2 weeks on if needed.


I started a thread but didn't get any answers and you seem to be the man to ask on all things ECA.

I have got hold of 30mg Ephedrine HCL tabs and 75mg aspirin tabs but can't get caffeine pills, being in afghan it can be a bugger to get certain things. What I wanted to know was can I use grenade fat burners as the caffeine? According to the site there is 200mg per 2 tabs.

I done my first day of this today 30mg Eph 2x grenades and 75mg aspirin once in the morning and once in the afternoon and I got a great buzz, done some good low intensity cardio before work then a great leg workout and some cardio after work. Felt like I could just keep going.

I'm just worried that using the grenades as the caffeine might be too much and do me damage. Someone recommended coffee but I can't stand the stuff and I'm trying to stay away from red bull etc.

What do you think?


----------



## DiggyV

Macky1986 said:


> I started a thread but didn't get any answers and you seem to be the man to ask on all things ECA.
> 
> I have got hold of 30mg Ephedrine HCL tabs and 75mg aspirin tabs but can't get caffeine pills, being in afghan it can be a bugger to get certain things. What I wanted to know was can I use grenade fat burners as the caffeine? According to the site there is 200mg per 2 tabs.
> 
> I done my first day of this today 30mg Eph 2x grenades and 75mg aspirin once in the morning and once in the afternoon and I got a great buzz, done some good low intensity cardio before work then a great leg workout and some cardio after work. Felt like I could just keep going.
> 
> I'm just worried that using the grenades as the caffeine might be too much and do me damage. Someone recommended coffee but I can't stand the stuff and I'm trying to stay away from red bull etc.
> 
> What do you think?


no worries buddy :thumb:

you could do but may end up clinging to the ceiling as Grenade can be quite stimulating as has synephrine in it, so maybe not the best idea, also will mean that you potentially downregulate faster.

Also with 30mg eph you are going to need 300mg caffeine and 2 baby aspirin to get the correct ratio, and 3 Grenade will be, uhhh, fun :lol:

You in the services out there, or private contractor? You OK taking this stuff if you're in theatre?

What's the coffee like where you are? a good strong coffee, about 350ml (same amount as a can of coke - dont use coke though is low by comparison) will give you somewhere between 200 and 250mg, so a big mug should give you all you need. As an example a medium starbucks Latte with an extra shot will give you 240mg.

May be a safer option than dropping 3 Grenade. Or you could have one grenade and a mug of strong coffee... would probably give you the right amount.


----------



## Macky1986

DiggyV said:


> no worries buddy :thumb:
> 
> you could do but may end up clinging to the ceiling as Grenade can be quite stimulating as has synephrine in it, so maybe not the best idea, also will mean that you potentially downregulate faster.
> 
> Also with 30mg eph you are going to need 300mg caffeine and 2 baby aspirin to get the correct ratio, and 3 Grenade will be, uhhh, fun :lol:
> 
> You in the services out there, or private contractor? You OK taking this stuff if you're in theatre?
> 
> What's the coffee like where you are? a good strong coffee, about 350ml (same amount as a can of coke - dont use coke though is low by comparison) will give you somewhere between 200 and 250mg, so a big mug should give you all you need. As an example a medium starbucks Latte with an extra shot will give you 240mg.
> 
> May be a safer option than dropping 3 Grenade. Or you could have one grenade and a mug of strong coffee... would probably give you the right amount.


Thanks for the advice bud. I'm a contractor working for a company that maintain the Afghan Police vehicles, so no won't get any problems from that.

I've got an admin assistant who is a qualified pharmacist and can get pretty much anything you want from Valium to AAS to heavy duty Viagra but he can't get bloody caffeine pills lol.

He will keep trying though. I checked again, it's actually 225mg in 2 grenades, don't think I would risk taking 3 though but I dont do any HIIT just low intensity cardio 6 days a week and weights 4 nights a week. I can easily take 2 aspirin upping that to 150mg but I really just can't stomach coffee and it's all crap stuff here too.

Is synephrine part of the orange powder extract? I've got the UK grenades, I noticed the ingredients are different from the US ones.

Think I will keep trying it for a few more days until I manage to get caffeine pills, don't want my heart exploding.

Also just to add I'm a big lad and have a very high tolerance to stimulants. This is just a quick 2 weeks burst to get rid of some excess fat before I meet the wife in Dubai in March for my leave.


----------



## DiggyV

Macky1986 said:


> Thanks for the advice bud. I'm a contractor working for a company that maintain the Afghan Police vehicles, so no won't get any problems from that.
> 
> I've got an admin assistant who is a qualified pharmacist and can get pretty much anything you want from Valium to AAS to heavy duty Viagra but he can't get bloody caffeine pills lol.
> 
> He will keep trying though. I checked again, it's actually 225mg in 2 grenades, don't think I would risk taking 3 though but I dont do any HIIT just low intensity cardio 6 days a week and weights 4 nights a week. I can easily take 2 aspirin upping that to 150mg but I really just can't stomach coffee and it's all crap stuff here too.
> 
> Is synephrine part of the orange powder extract? I've got the UK grenades, I noticed the ingredients are different from the US ones.
> 
> Think I will keep trying it for a few more days until I manage to get caffeine pills, don't want my heart exploding.
> 
> Also just to add I'm a big lad and have a very high tolerance to stimulants. This is just a quick 2 weeks burst to get rid of some excess fat before I meet the wife in Dubai in March for my leave.


Ah OK, good plan mate 

Yes synephrine is sometimes listed as Bitter Orange Extract. Just checked and it does contain this stuff, which means technically they are illegal - Synephrine made it onto the controlled substance list in 2012 just prior to the Olympics. And I know Grenade used to state Synephrine, so they have just re-labelled. :lol:

To get the most out of the grenade - and if you're taking them you might as well, take with a glass of Grapefruit juice - provided you like it. There are two substances in GJ (Naringin and Hesperidin) which increase effectiveness.

However just be careful with it all. 2 possibly 3 weeks is all you can run it for anyway, before it becomes very ineffective.

if taking the grenades ten a can of coke, or diet coke will get you to about 275, and something like a redbull to just over the 300.


----------



## Macky1986

DiggyV said:


> Ah OK, good plan mate
> 
> Yes synephrine is sometimes listed as Bitter Orange Extract. Just checked and it does contain this stuff, which means technically they are illegal - Synephrine made it onto the controlled substance list in 2012 just prior to the Olympics. And I know Grenade used to state Synephrine, so they have just re-labelled. :lol:
> 
> To get the most out of the grenade - and if you're taking them you might as well, take with a glass of Grapefruit juice - provided you like it. There are two substances in GJ (Naringin and Hesperidin) which increase effectiveness.
> 
> However just be careful with it all. 2 possibly 3 weeks is all you can run it for anyway, before it becomes very ineffective.
> 
> if taking the grenades ten a can of coke, or diet coke will get you to about 275, and something like a redbull to just over the 300.


Yes grapefruit juice I can get and I like so I will try that and possibly a small can of low sugar monster would get me to 300mg. Really trying to stay away from energy drinks, got addicted to them out here over the last 3 years. But yes I was only planning on using the ECA for 3 weeks anyway then that will be me off it for at least 4 weeks and might try again if I get the results when I come back from leave.

I'm also running a course of oxandrolone, only a couple more weeks left on that to complete an 8 week cycle on 80mg ed. Will that affect it in anyway?

This thread has been a great read and very informative thanks.

23:00 here so sleep time, up at 5am for my morning cardio and heart attack with the ECA lol.

I do have other fat burners here to choose from, Lipo 6x, T6 and BSN AtroPhex if they would be any better?


----------



## DiggyV

Macky1986 said:


> Yes grapefruit juice I can get and I like so I will try that and possibly a small can of low sugar monster would get me to 300mg. Really trying to stay away from energy drinks, got addicted to them out here over the last 3 years. But yes I was only planning on using the ECA for 3 weeks anyway then that will be me off it for at least 4 weeks and might try again if I get the results when I come back from leave.
> 
> I'm also running a course of oxandrolone, only a couple more weeks left on that to complete an 8 week cycle on 80mg ed. Will that affect it in anyway?
> 
> This thread has been a great read and very informative thanks.
> 
> 23:00 here so sleep time, up at 5am for my morning cardio and heart attack with the ECA lol.


small low sugar will do it. For the first day just take this - no GJ, just so you dont overload. If you're OK and not to jittery take a small glass of GJ as well the next day and then onto a larger glass. You should notice the difference, if not in hit, then in the amount of time the hit lasts.

Anavar (Oxandrolone) is actually a good one to be on for a cut, and is less harsh on the joints compared to something like Winstrol. Do you have PCT ready? Probably Clomid and Nolva is all that's required - if you need detaills holler. THis is just so you dont crash just as you get to Dubai, and cant make the beast with two backs!


----------



## Macky1986

DiggyV said:


> small low sugar will do it. For the first day just take this - no GJ, just so you dont overload. If you're OK and not to jittery take a small glass of GJ as well the next day and then onto a larger glass. You should notice the difference, if not in hit, then in the amount of time the hit lasts.
> 
> Anavar (Oxandrolone) is actually a good one to be on for a cut, and is less harsh on the joints compared to something like Winstrol. Do you have PCT ready? Probably Clomid and Nolva is all that's required - if you need detaills holler. THis is just so you dont crash just as you get to Dubai, and cant make the beast with two backs!


Yeah was going to run Nolva for 3 weeks but still unsure of what dosage. What would you recommend, the anavar has certainly affected my libido anyway that's for sure. That's where the PCT and the very strong Viagra will come into play lol.

Do you mean a glass of gf juice with every dose or just once a day? It's red grape juice we have here, I presume it's pretty much the same thing?


----------



## DiggyV

Macky1986 said:


> Yeah was going to run Nolva for 3 weeks but still unsure of what dosage. What would you recommend, the anavar has certainly affected my libido anyway that's for sure. That's where the PCT and the very strong Viagra will come into play lol.
> 
> Do you mean a glass of gf juice with every dose or just once a day? It's red grape juice we have here, I presume it's pretty much the same thing?


grapefruit juice mate not grape juice. 

Nolva 20/20/02/20 should be fine. A lot of people dont run PCT on var, but as you're meeting the missus, better be safe :thumb:

if you have libido issues on the Var, sometimes adding proviron can help. 25mg a day - however the Viagra may be a better option :lol:

Good luck and you can always PM if you need anything else.


----------



## Macky1986

DiggyV said:


> grapefruit juice mate not grape juice.
> 
> Nolva 20/20/02/20 should be fine. A lot of people dont run PCT on var, but as you're meeting the missus, better be safe :thumb:
> 
> if you have libido issues on the Var, sometimes adding proviron can help. 25mg a day - however the Viagra may be a better option :lol:
> 
> Good luck and you can always PM if you need anything else.


Not sure if I can get proper grapefruit juice but I will try. The libido doesn't bother me out here stuck on a site with about 20 internationals and 300 locals (all men) but like you say it's the getting home part that's the worry lol. Will try Nolva on that dosage after the anavar cycle is done as I know I can get Nolvadex easily.

Thanks for the help it's much appreciated.


----------



## ConstantCut

I currently pay £25 for my ECA which is a pot of 60 capsules I think.

Need to work out if doing my own stack would be cheaper tbh.


----------



## Taffflash

Pure awesome post. Yesterday I picked up 2 boxes of chest eze and a box of aspirin 75mg tablets. I got a tub of caffeine that I have had for awhile. 100 mg per tablet.

I'm starting my cut tomorrow and I wanted to see how I would get on with the Eca stack before I stepped foot in the gym.

Yesterday afternoon at 5 I had a test run and took 1 chest ezz, 1 75 mg aspirin and 1 100 mg caffeine tablet. I was buzzing until 12 o clock and was finding it hard to get off the Xbox 360 playing cod lol.

This morning I woke up and I have had a really bad stomach all morning. Felt run down because of it. Could it be the asprin that is causing this upset? Or could the eph be doing it? If it's the asprin could I just run the EC alone and if I do will it be less effective? Thanks guys.


----------



## DiggyV

Taffflash said:


> Pure awesome post. Yesterday I picked up 2 boxes of chest eze and a box of aspirin 75mg tablets. I got a tub of caffeine that I have had for awhile. 100 mg per tablet.
> 
> I'm starting my cut tomorrow and I wanted to see how I would get on with the Eca stack before I stepped foot in the gym.
> 
> Yesterday afternoon at 5 I had a test run and took 1 chest ezz, 1 75 mg aspirin and 1 100 mg caffeine tablet. I was buzzing until 12 o clock and was finding it hard to get off the Xbox 360 playing cod lol.
> 
> This morning I woke up and I have had a really bad stomach all morning. Felt run down because of it. Could it be the asprin that is causing this upset? Or could the eph be doing it? If it's the asprin could I just run the EC alone and if I do will it be less effective? Thanks guys.


unlikely to be the aspirin mate. Aspirin only causes stomach issues with prolonged use. A single dose is not going to cause issues. It might be the eph but you would normally see this pretty quickly after taking it. It may be coincidence. Give it another go and see if you get the same issue.

If you run EC, you may as well just run E as the C does nothing without the A. 

Also drop 1.5 of your caffeine tabs to get the right ratios - the buzz should last a little longer with that.


----------



## Taffflash

DiggyV said:


> unlikely to be the aspirin mate. Aspirin only causes stomach issues with prolonged use. A single dose is not going to cause issues. It might be the eph but you would normally see this pretty quickly after taking it. It may be coincidence. Give it another go and see if you get the same issue.
> 
> If you run EC, you may as well just run E as the C does nothing without the A.
> 
> Also drop 1.5 of your caffeine tabs to get the right ratios - the buzz should last a little longer with that.


Thanks for the reply mate. What do you mean by dropping 1.5 of my caffeine tabs? Thanks.

I think I must be very sensitive to ephedrine because I only took one dose yesterday at 5 and I still feeling the effects. Lol


----------



## DiggyV

Taffflash said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. What do you mean by dropping 1.5 of my caffeine tabs? Thanks.
> 
> I think I must be very sensitive to ephedrine because I only took one dose yesterday at 5 and I still feeling the effects. Lol


sorry should have said take 1.5 of your caffeine tabs. each os 100mg, ideally you need 150mg to get the right ratios.

For you this is:

1 chesteze

1.5 caff tabs

1 junior aspirin


----------



## Taffflash

DiggyV said:


> sorry should have said take 1.5 of your caffeine tabs. each os 100mg, ideally you need 150mg to get the right ratios.
> 
> For you this is:
> 
> 1 chesteze
> 
> 1.5 caff tabs
> 
> 1 junior aspirin


Thanks allot mate. So 3 x a day at these ratios.

Not to be picky but in the chesteze there is also 30mg of C? If so then it's 180 mg per dose? Thanks dude.


----------



## DiggyV

Taffflash said:


> Thanks allot mate. So 3 x a day at these ratios.
> 
> Not to be picky but in the chesteze there is also 30mg of C? If so then it's 180 mg per dose? Thanks dude.


Yes that's right on the doses.

18mg eph+ 30mg caff

150mg caff

75mg asp

18:180:75

1:10:4.2 

I would only run it twice a day mate, three times may be a little too much and you will certainly downregulate faster.


----------



## Taffflash

DiggyV said:


> Yes that's right on the doses.
> 
> 18mg eph+ 30mg caff
> 
> 150mg caff
> 
> 75mg asp
> 
> 18:180:75
> 
> 1:10:4.2
> 
> I would only run it twice a day mate, three times may be a little too much and you will certainly downregulate faster.


Thanks a lot for your help mate. Just wanted to clear it up. Will run 2 on and 2 off and see how I get on from tomorrow running it an hour before fasted cardio. Thank.


----------



## CraftyClown

Afternoon folks. I have a quick question for those with a better understanding of ECA stacks than me.

I have a trainer at the gym who has been giving me a premade ECA stack called EPH, before my workouts. The reason he put me on these was mostly because I can only workout in the morning and as I suffer very badly with allergies, my morning workouts have been suffering. The stacks decongest me nicely as well as giving me that extra kick needed to smash through a session.

My question and slight concern relate to the ratios of the stack. If I remember correctly (he showed me the tub, but I don't have it myself) it contains 60mg Ephedrine, 200mg Caffeine, 120mg Ma Huang, I can't remember how much asprin and a few other ingredients. Now this seems like a lot of Ephedrine and Ephedra in one hit. I had one at 8.30 this morning and I'm still feeling the influence quite strongly now.

I just thought I'd check on here from some opinions as to whether this is massive overkill or not? I thought about doing half, but then the caffeine levels would be quite low.

Thoughts?


----------



## DiggyV

CraftyClown said:


> Afternoon folks. I have a quick question for those with a better understanding of ECA stacks than me.
> 
> I have a trainer at the gym who has been giving me a premade ECA stack called EPH, before my workouts. The reason he put me on these was mostly because I can only workout in the morning and as I suffer very badly with allergies, my morning workouts have been suffering. The stacks decongest me nicely as well as giving me that extra kick needed to smash through a session.
> 
> My question and slight concern relate to the ratios of the stack. If I remember correctly (he showed me the tub, but I don't have it myself) it contains 60mg Ephedrine, 200mg Caffeine, 120mg Ma Huang, I can't remember how much asprin and a few other ingredients. Now this seems like a lot of Ephedrine and Ephedra in one hit. I had one at 8.30 this morning and I'm still feeling the influence quite strongly now.
> 
> I just thought I'd check on here from some opinions as to whether this is massive overkill or not? I thought about doing half, but then the caffeine levels would be quite low.
> 
> Thoughts?


60mg of Ephedrine is a huge amount, coupled with the Ma Huang, you should probably have felt pretty rough to be honest, with heart palpitations - if not then either the Ephedrine is Ephedra, or its very underdosed, or may not be ephedrine, but something like Synephrine where a dose of 60mg is more common.

For comparison Chesteze has 18mg Ephedrine in it, and this with the 180mg Caff and 75mg asp will give you a hell of a hit, and I have known it be too much for some people.

I know I used to feel things like Dexaprine (old formula) for about 6 hours and if I had a larger dose in the morning, would actually affect my sleep that night.

The ratios are all over the place anyway, and without the aspirin, and without knowing it is actually ephedrine, then it is less important. With 60mg eph and 120 ephedra from the MH, you would need 750-800mg caffeine which in its own would be pretty bad for you, so my advice would be to just drop 0.5 tabs at your next session and see how you feel. Also monitor how you sleep tonight.


----------



## CraftyClown

Thanks Diggy, I was a bit confused. The bit that baffles me the most was the fact he gets it from a very reputable source, so I didn't want to question it too much without doing a bit of research. I don't want to plaster the name of his source on the forums, but you Diggy would be very familiar with where he gets it from. I am still buzzing fairly hard still at 2pm, so I'm inclined to think it is Ephedrine, rather than Ephedra as the tub states, however I have nothing to compare against so it's difficult to say.


----------



## DiggyV

CraftyClown said:


> Thanks Diggy, I was a bit confused. The bit that baffles me the most was the fact he gets it from a very reputable source, so I didn't want to question it too much without doing a bit of research. I don't want to plaster the name of his source on the forums, but you Diggy would be very familiar with where he gets it from. I am still buzzing fairly hard still at 2pm, so I'm inclined to think it is Ephedrine, rather than Ephedra as the tub states, however I have nothing to compare against so it's difficult to say.


Gut feel is though that the 60mg is under-dosed. Ephedra will give you a good hit, jut weight for weight is not as strong, as will Synephrine and yohimbine. If I drop 3 x chesteze (which I have done in the name of research) which is 54mg ephedrine, my pulse goes through the roof (140+ without any exercise) I get the shakes / jitters and feel like [email protected] - it lasts for hours - and I wont be doing it again.

I know when I have run other prebuilt ECA stacks - there was a lot doing the rounds at one point called ECA30+ with various different labs names before it, these were 30mg in each, taking two of these gave me a nice buzz, but was on a par with one chest-exe/3 pro plus and a baby aspirin.

however what this actually boils down to is that if its giving you the desired effect and allowing you to train more focussed, then it is doing what it is supposed to regardless of the actual constituent parts. Its just a case of adjusting the dose to the point where you are comfortable.


----------



## Dan94

Is it safe to drive whilst doing an ECA stack? I've heard it gives the same buzz as Speed :laugh:


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Is it safe to drive whilst doing an ECA stack? I've heard it gives the same buzz as Speed :laugh:


Competency to drive is a personal decision mate. As what you are taking, if based on the chesteze stack is an OTC medicine, (that you are taking for your bad chest) then there is no legal limit for involved. :wink: However if you feel generally that your judgment is impaired then probably best not to, as this is what it will boil down to if something did happen.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> Competency to drive is a personal decision mate. As what you are taking, if based on the chesteze stack is an OTC medicine, (that you are taking for your bad chest) then there is no legal limit for involved. :wink: However if you feel generally that your judgment is impaired then probably best not to, as this is what it will boil down to if something did happen.


got ya mate :thumbup1:

wheres the best place to get the ephedrine from? I already have some of @GoNutrition's caffeine tablets which are 200mg, and I think im right in saying a 75mg baby aspirin is fine too? So the eph is the only thing I need really.

Although ideally it'd be better to try buy one from a supplier somewhere as an "all in one" type capsule.


----------



## Vivid

Dan94 said:


> got ya mate :thumbup1:
> 
> wheres the best place to get the ephedrine from? I already have some of @GoNutrition's caffeine tablets which are 200mg, and I think im right in saying a 75mg baby aspirin is fine too? So the eph is the only thing I need really.
> 
> Although ideally it'd be better to try buy one from a supplier somewhere as an "all in one" type capsule.


Seen as though you've already got the other bits just go to any pharmacy and buy some Chesteze, pharma then too so least you know its sound.


----------



## Dan94

Vivid said:


> Seen as though you've already got the other bits just go to any pharmacy and buy some Chesteze, pharma then too so least you know its sound.


Can you just buy it or do you have to have a doctors note or make up an excuse of chest pains etc?


----------



## Vivid

Dan94 said:


> Can you just buy it or do you have to have a doctors note or make up an excuse of chest pains etc?


Its not prescription but your limited to 9 tabs dependent on the pharmacist...


----------



## Dan94

is there any other way to buy it? pretty expensive


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> is there any other way to buy it? pretty expensive


 As it's a pharmacy controlled substance in the UK, outside of chesteze I can do no more than point you in the direction of a UKM sponsor called century supplements. Go look at their section in the sponsors area and their section should be plenty of links there or banners to click on.


----------



## Dan94

if say youre going out drinking on a saturday night, im guessing its best to take it friday like normal, miss saturday, then carry on again like normal on the sunday?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> if say youre going out drinking on a saturday night, im guessing its best to take it friday like normal, miss saturday, then carry on again like normal on the sunday?


Probably best, although will help you stay awake 

Some people also suffer with something called 'stim dick' where your gentleman sausage can temporarily take on a less than flattering size. So if you are planning on finding a lady on saturday night :lol: , then maybe best no to.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> Probably best, although will help you stay awake
> 
> Some people also suffer with something called 'stim dick' where your gentleman sausage can temporarily take on a less than flattering size. So if you are planning on finding a lady on saturday night :lol: , then maybe best no to.


I normally drink vodka and red bull so probably not best to smash in ECA doses throughout the day with all the caffeine. :lol:

Cheers mate, I'll keep that in mind. :lol:


----------



## Dan94

For ECA to work, do you have to eat "clean"?

I don't eat "dirty" by any means, but I follow an IIFYM/Flexible Dieting style diet in my diet. Does it make any difference?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> For ECA to work, do you have to eat "clean"?
> 
> I don't eat "dirty" by any means, but I follow an IIFYM/Flexible Dieting style diet in my diet. Does it make any difference?


I do IIFYM - although my eating is basically clean, however I would recommend 400-600 under maintenance while on ECA.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> I do IIFYM - although my eating is basically clean, however I would recommend 400-600 under maintenance while on ECA.


Good to hear mate. I'm currently around 550 below maintenance which is only about 150 above my BMR! but not losing weight for some reason, which is why I'm edging towards the ECA idea!


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Good to hear mate. I'm currently around 550 below maintenance which is only about 150 above my BMR! but not losing weight for some reason, which is why I'm edging towards the ECA idea!


My base is BMR x 1.2 as I am on my ass when not training, and I run 600 below. However on traingin days I add in an extra 400 cals.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> My base is BMR x 1.2 as I am on my ass when not training, and I run 600 below. However on traingin days I add in an extra 400 cals.


Fair enough, maybe I need to experiment more.

Another thing I meant to ask, have you heard of ECA giving stretch marks? As obviously it's quite a 'fast' fat loss method?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Fair enough, maybe I need to experiment more.
> 
> Another thing I meant to ask, have you heard of ECA giving stretch marks? As obviously it's quite a 'fast' fat loss method?


Stretch marks happen on rapid weight gain, not loss mate...

I have them at the top of my biceps ..


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> Stretch marks happen on rapid weight gain, not loss mate...


Always thought it worked both ways, my bad :lol:

Weird as I have stretch marks suddenly under my arm pits when cutting unless my arms have grown


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Always thought it worked both ways, my bad :lol:
> 
> Weird as I have stretch marks suddenly under my arm pits when cutting unless my arms have grown


they may have become noticeable since losing weight...


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> they may have become noticeable since losing weight...


Maybe so, although they just appeared one day out of the blue :laugh:


----------



## Dan94

These alright for the aspirin?

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266990312


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> These alright for the aspirin?
> 
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266990312


they are not ideal as they are gastro coated. You need to get hold of the dispersible ones. Used to be called Junior Disprin, however since Aspirin has been banned for U-12 because of Reye's Syndrome then you cant get them. So look for dispersible not gastro.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> they are not ideal as they are gastro coated. You need to get hold of the dispersible ones. Used to be called Junior Disprin, however since Aspirin has been banned for U-12 because of Reye's Syndrome then you cant get them. So look for dispersible not gastro.


Ah **** sake man. I guess its only 85p wasted then :laugh:

I'm going for blood test next Monday which has a pharmacy right next to it, would these be the ones?

http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/lloydspharmacy-100-dispersible-aspirin-75mg-tablets-bp-15483


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Ah **** sake man. I guess its only 85p wasted then :laugh:
> 
> I'm going for blood test next Monday which has a pharmacy right next to it, would these be the ones?
> 
> http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/lloydspharmacy-100-dispersible-aspirin-75mg-tablets-bp-15483


you can take them, they are just designed to pass through the stomach un touched and take longer to break down, ideally you want all 75mg available ASAP.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> you can take them, they are just designed to pass through the stomach un touched and take longer to break down, ideally you want all 75mg available ASAP.


I'm not planning on starting this for a few weeks yet, so I'll just get those dispersible ones from Lloyd's next Monday


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> I'm not planning on starting this for a few weeks yet, so I'll just get those dispersible ones from Lloyd's next Monday


you can take this when not on the ECA mate. Pretty much everyone should take these, low dose aspirin is pretty much a miracle drug. Proven heart health benefits and also anti-cancer properties.


----------



## fl0werbomb

I've read that you're not meant to do much cardio or high intensity exercise whilst on ECA is that true


----------



## DiggyV

fl0werbomb said:


> I've read that you're not meant to do much cardio or high intensity exercise whilst on ECA is that true


I would say cardio and exercise on ECA is fine and will maximise its effects, something like HIIT may be too much for a lot of people, however I have done it on ECA and other stimulant fat burners without problems. However you need to listen to your body and be aware of how you feel. If you start feeling ill, then probably not a good idea to continue.

ECA on its own will help lose weight - to a small degree, coupled with exercise you will get much better results, and IMO is the only way to use it.


----------



## Boshlop

fl0werbomb said:


> I've read that you're not meant to do much cardio or high intensity exercise whilst on ECA is that true


in that case i have made many many bad calls over the last 3 weeks! you can feel you have something in you, but its not some scary fast effect where your heart goes from 50 to 170 in a min, you feel quite strongly when something is off on it, really helps your drive through it more, i find i can do HIIT on ECA as normal then i have the energy to keep up steady state afterwards as well and get more out of the session


----------



## Aliking10

@DiggyV Is the ratio on the first page still the optimum/recommended dosage?

Cheers.


----------



## DiggyV

Aliking10 said:


> @DiggyV Is the ratio on the first page still the optimum/recommended dosage?
> 
> Cheers.


yup.

1:10:4

so on the chesteze stack:

1 x chesteze = 18mg eph + 30mg caff

3 x pro-plus or equivalent = 150mg caff

1 x 75mg dispersible aspirin

18 : 150 + 30 : 75

18:180:75

1:10:4.2

Simples!


----------



## Gathers54

@DiggyV

Thanks for the great info. I have read this guide as well as the DMAA guide and both are helpful.

In you opinion how long would you run D-Hacks T5 extreme for before taking a break? I thought i read somewhere you suggested running Ephedrine/ECA for 3 to 4 weeks maximum but cannot find that post now and obviously the D-Hacks T5 also contain DMAA.

I'm taking 1 tablet a day at the moment and seem to be getting good results but i am only 5 days in.

Cheers


----------



## Aliking10

DiggyV said:


> yup.
> 
> 1:10:4
> 
> so on the chesteze stack:
> 
> 1 x chesteze = 18mg eph + 30mg caff
> 
> 3 x pro-plus or equivalent = 150mg caff
> 
> 1 x 75mg dispersible aspirin
> 
> 18 : 150 + 30 : 75
> 
> 18:180:75
> 
> 1:10:4.2
> 
> Simples!


Thanks, some top information here. :thumb:


----------



## DiggyV

Gathers54 said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> Thanks for the great info. I have read this guide as well as the DMAA guide and both are helpful.
> 
> In you opinion how long would you run D-Hacks T5 extreme for before taking a break? I thought i read somewhere you suggested running Ephedrine/ECA for 3 to 4 weeks maximum but cannot find that post now and obviously the D-Hacks T5 also contain DMAA.
> 
> I'm taking 1 tablet a day at the moment and seem to be getting good results but i am only 5 days in.
> 
> Cheers


ideally 2 on 2 off, although you can sneak it out to 3 or 4, but need the same 3-4 off again. However would rather run 2/2 then another 2/2 than 4/4 as results would be better.

The DMAA just means you hit your alpha receptors harder, so I would suggest 2/2 is the best bet.


----------



## Gathers54

DiggyV said:


> ideally 2 on 2 off, although you can sneak it out to 3 or 4, but need the same 3-4 off again. However would rather run 2/2 then another 2/2 than 4/4 as results would be better.
> 
> The DMAA just means you hit your alpha receptors harder, so I would suggest 2/2 is the best bet.


Perfect, 2 on and 2 off it is!

Thanks for the advice, its appreciated


----------



## DiggyV

Gathers54 said:


> Perfect, 2 on and 2 off it is!
> 
> Thanks for the advice, its appreciated


you may be able to go upto 2 tabs in week 2, one early morning, and one early afternoon, or 1 in the morning and half in the afternoon.

None later than 4pm though - you just wont sleep.


----------



## Gathers54

DiggyV said:


> you may be able to go upto 2 tabs in week 2, one early morning, and one early afternoon, or 1 in the morning and half in the afternoon.
> 
> None later than 4pm though - you just wont sleep.


Yes i was thinking of giving it a go for the second week. Originally i was going to up it to two over the weekend but was still feeling the effects of the single tab, which i take about 11am. I didn't want to up it too quickly.


----------



## TBWFC

Hey great post very useful, I'm just about to buy the home made ECA stack. I was wondering if Aspirin Enteric Coated can be used instead of junior aspirin?

I think i read through a few of these posts the other day and you mentioned something but I thought I would ask just in case.


----------



## Gathers54

j0rd4n500 said:


> Hey great post very useful, I'm just about to buy the home made ECA stack. I was wondering if Aspirin Enteric Coated can be used instead of junior aspirin?
> 
> I think i read through a few of these posts the other day and you mentioned something but I thought I would ask just in case.


I think the coated ones take longer to break down as they pass through the stomach so you're better getting the standard ones.


----------



## TBWFC

Ordered them now but was only 2 quid so not that bothered, where is the best place to get them would you say?


----------



## DiggyV

Gathers54 said:


> I think the coated ones take longer to break down as they pass through the stomach so you're better getting the standard ones.


^^^^this. look for dispersible aspirin rather than coated.


----------



## TBWFC

I ended up buying dispersible ones actually as i had to use another supplier to buy multiple packs.

1 x Chest-Eze (18mg) - the 'E' part

1 x Caffeine tab (200mg) - the 'C' part

1 x dispersible aspirin (75mg) - the 'A' part

Will this be okay or when upping the dose to 2 a day will it be too much caffein it roughly works out 1:10:4.


----------



## Gathers54

DiggyV said:


> yup.
> 
> 1:10:4
> 
> so on the chesteze stack:
> 
> 1 x chesteze = 18mg eph + 30mg caff
> 
> 3 x pro-plus or equivalent = 150mg caff
> 
> 1 x 75mg dispersible aspirin
> 
> 18 : 150 + 30 : 75
> 
> 18:180:75
> 
> 1:10:4.2
> 
> Simples!





j0rd4n500 said:


> I ended up buying dispersible ones actually as i had to use another supplier to buy multiple packs.
> 
> 1 x Chest-Eze (18mg) - the 'E' part
> 
> 1 x Caffeine tab (200mg) - the 'C' part
> 
> 1 x dispersible aspirin (75mg) - the 'A' part
> 
> Will this be okay or when upping the dose to 2 a day will it be too much caffein it roughly works out 1:10:4.


See Diggyv's post above.

Remember there is 30mg of caffeine in the Chest-Eze tab too. It may be ok but then i found myself struggling with the caffeine at 180mg total, on this stack which is strange as i'm normally tolerant.


----------



## TBWFC

Yer thats what i was wondering but the caffeine tablets i brought were 200mg I guess ill give it a go, thanks for the response.


----------



## DiggyV

Gathers54 said:


> See Diggyv's post above.
> 
> Remember there is 30mg of caffeine in the Chest-Eze tab too. It may be ok but then i found myself struggling with the caffeine at 180mg total, on this stack which is strange as i'm normally tolerant.


odd mate as 180mg is actually not that much in comparison. Forget Red Bull and Monster etc that come in at around 80-160mg Caffeine in a can, go grab a Standard Starbucks medium Coffee - 240mg Caffeine, and all the whinging by people about 'high caffeine' drinks like RB etc and happily sipping their starbucks. :lol:



j0rd4n500 said:


> Yer thats what i was wondering but the caffeine tablets i brought were 200mg I guess ill give it a go, thanks for the response.


200 will be fine in the mix. Higher is better than lower.


----------



## Gathers54

DiggyV said:


> odd mate as 180mg is actually not that much in comparison. Forget Red Bull and Monster etc that come in at around 80-160mg Caffeine in a can, go grab a Standard Starbucks medium Coffee - 240mg Caffeine, and all the whinging by people about 'high caffeine' drinks like RB etc and happily sipping their starbucks. :lol:


I know, very strange.

I used to drink Coke and Pepsi for fun which is part of the reason i got fat but have never had a problem with energy drinks either. I've also had other tabs containing 200mg caffeine and never had a problem but when i did the home made stack,i started having several issues with them. That's why i stopped taking the stack and eventually went for T5s for the course i am doing now.


----------



## asteroid

@ DiggyV I bought DoDo ChestEze from eBay seller medicinesuk. I took it in proportion of E(18.5mg)+C(200mg)+A(75mg) at 8am along with my normal 4 espressos and ... nothing. No effect on my heart rate, and no effect on my blood pressure, no feeling of higher body temp, and no extra energy in GYM. If anything, the blood pressure went a bit down. Next day I took E(37mg)+C(200mg and 4 espresso)+A(150mg). Still no effect on the heart rate, blood pressure, or body temp. I am prone to high blood pressure and take Amlodipine Besilate and Ramipril (5mg each). Therefore I am doing it with a lot of caution and check blood pressure every hour or so while on ECA. Not sure what's happening and why the ECA does not seem to work on me. Could it be that ChestEze from eBay is fake? Or could it be that my blood pressure medication stops the effect of ECA?

Photo of ChestEze: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/members/asteroid-albums-weight-loss-gear-picture148572-do-do-chesteze-medicinesuk-ebay.JPG


----------



## Gathers54

I doubt it is fake but what i would say with all fat burners, is that people react differently. I didn't feel anything with the Chesteze stack other than nausea and so i take T5's. However, alot of people have had good success with the Chesteze stack.

Perhaps give it a couple of days more or take one in the afternoon. Though, i dont know what you can and cannot take with your blood pressure medication so i would stress caution.


----------



## Aliking10

I started on the ECA stack on monday but I had to come off this morning.

Had crippling headaches and constantly feel light headed and sick.

Though appetite was suppressed and I had a good sweat on in the shame, I just can't do anything feeling like this.

Wondered if @DiggyV you could recommend something else, not sure I can take Clen because of the shakes, and it's not really DNP weather now.


----------



## ashmo

Aliking10 said:


> I started on the ECA stack on monday but I had to come off this morning.
> 
> Had crippling headaches and constantly feel light headed and sick.
> 
> Though appetite was suppressed and I had a good sweat on in the shame, I just can't do anything feeling like this.
> 
> Wondered if @DiggyV you could recommend something else, not sure I can take Clen because of the shakes, and it's not really DNP weather now.


What dose were you taking?


----------



## Boshlop

Aliking10 said:


> I started on the ECA stack on monday but I had to come off this morning.
> 
> Had crippling headaches and constantly feel light headed and sick.
> 
> Though appetite was suppressed and I had a good sweat on in the shame, I just can't do anything feeling like this.
> 
> Wondered if @DiggyV you could recommend something else, not sure I can take Clen because of the shakes, and it's not really DNP weather now.


one of the d-hacks stacks, power stack and ultra burn are noted to be top notch, other than that i guess you could look inot yohimbine?


----------



## DiggyV

Aliking10 said:


> I started on the ECA stack on monday but I had to come off this morning.
> 
> Had crippling headaches and constantly feel light headed and sick.
> 
> Though appetite was suppressed and I had a good sweat on in the shame, I just can't do anything feeling like this.
> 
> Wondered if @DiggyV you could recommend something else, not sure I can take Clen because of the shakes, and it's not really DNP weather now.


There are other stim fatburners available, but if ECA gave you a bad headache, then they are likely too as well unfortunately. Did you try the Ephedrine on its own, without the CA? If you are up for it then try one over the weekend (have paracetamol ready) as it may be the caffeine, its a little unlikely but it might be. If you do try this let me know how you get on.

If you still get the headaches then the ones @Boshlop mention will be just as bad as they are loaded with all sorts of Alpha Stims.

Clen is an option, but again wouldn't want you to shell out only to get headaches from them as well. You dont have to shake on Clen. You can find the dose you do shake at and then run at 20mcg lower, you should still burn fat nicely, without shaking like a jelly.


----------



## Aliking10

DiggyV said:


> There are other stim fatburners available, but if ECA gave you a bad headache, then they are likely too as well unfortunately. Did you try the Ephedrine on its own, without the CA? If you are up for it then try one over the weekend (have paracetamol ready) as it may be the caffeine, its a little unlikely but it might be. If you do try this let me know how you get on.
> 
> If you still get the headaches then the ones @Boshlop mention will be just as bad as they are loaded with all sorts of Alpha Stims.
> 
> Clen is an option, but again wouldn't want you to shell out only to get headaches from them as well. You dont have to shake on Clen. You can find the dose you do shake at and then run at 20mcg lower, you should still burn fat nicely, without shaking like a jelly.


I have a strong feeling its the caffeine. I don't have any in my diet usually, and I know when I was taking NO-Xplode/Ripped Freak I was getting the same kind of pressure headaches.

So is there merit in taking the Ephedrine alone? I'll give taking it a go on Sunday to see how I react.

Its a real shame because I liked the affects, just not the sides.

I'll have to look into Clen a bit more then, it's not something i'm hugely clued up on.


----------



## Aliking10

ashmo said:


> What dose were you taking?


Just the standard,

18mg of E

150mg C

75mg A

Twice a day as recommend on the first page. Why you ask?


----------



## Macky1986

Would just like to thank @DiggyV again for your advice a few pages back. I managed to get to my lowest body fat in years and also the PCT must have worked because I didn't disappoint the wife in Dubai, she had the best 15 seconds of her life :thumb:

Back in Afghan now and back on the ECA stack although this time brought caffeine pills from home instead of using the grenades.


----------



## DiggyV

Macky1986 said:


> Would just like to thank @DiggyV again for your advice a few pages back. I managed to get to my lowest body fat in years and also the PCT must have worked because I didn't disappoint the wife in Dubai, she had the best 15 seconds of her life :thumb:
> 
> Back in Afghan now and back on the ECA stack although this time brought caffeine pills from home instead of using the grenades.


Glad it all worked out for you mate.

Good call on the caffeine pills :lol:


----------



## Dan94

Do you guys swallow the aspirin or dissolve it first in water?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Do you guys swallow the aspirin or dissolve it first in water?


swallow for me....


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> swallow for me....


Cheers, was just curious as they normally say dissolve in water. :laugh:

Planning to do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, etc..

On the 2 weeks off is it strictly 2 week break from Eph, or all the ingredients? I normally take 200mg pre workout anyway, so would I need to stop that while on the 2 week break?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Cheers, was just curious as they normally say dissolve in water. :laugh:
> 
> Planning to do 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, etc..
> 
> On the 2 weeks off is it strictly 2 week break from Eph, or all the ingredients? I normally take 200mg pre workout anyway, so would I need to stop that while on the 2 week break?


only the eph mate.

If you have the fizzy aspirin, then dissolve, or you will burp like mad.... I use the straight pills, so no need to dissolve...


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> only the eph mate.
> 
> If you have the fizzy aspirin, then dissolve, or you will burp like mad.... I use the straight pills, so no need to dissolve...


Which ones are the normal ones? I can only find coated ones or the dissolvable ones in tesco.

Cheers


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Which ones are the normal ones? I can only find coated ones or the dissolvable ones in tesco.
> 
> Cheers


Dispersible are fine mate. Non coated ones are tougher and tougher to find now as the medical guidance on using aspirin for u12s has changed, and it now cannot be used.

https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/9630263871520214847?q=75mg+aspirin&es_sm=119&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.66330100,d.ZGU,pv.xjs.s.en_US.TDS-Kmkg_qg.O&biw=1274&bih=629&tch=1&ech=1ψ=1TdyU6_QJK-w7AbLh4DACg.1399994334229.3&ei=5DdyU7XvD87A7Abez4GgAg&ved=0CJkCEKkrMBE

I dont think these are coated, however stick with what you have.


----------



## kreig

If you can only get coated then just chop them in half, no more coating


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> Dispersible are fine mate. Non coated ones are tougher and tougher to find now as the medical guidance on using aspirin for u12s has changed, and it now cannot be used.
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/9630263871520214847?q=75mg+aspirin&es_sm=119&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.66330100,d.ZGU,pv.xjs.s.en_US.TDS-Kmkg_qg.O&biw=1274&bih=629&tch=1&ech=1ψ=1TdyU6_QJK-w7AbLh4DACg.1399994334229.3&ei=5DdyU7XvD87A7Abez4GgAg&ved=0CJkCEKkrMBE
> 
> I dont think these are coated, however stick with what you have.


I only have these atm

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266990312


----------



## Kid Billy

I've been reading up on ECA and just been given 300 ephindren tabs.

At the minute I'm on keto (timed carb) diet, s one of the stuff I've read says it's good on keto but also read doing ECA on keto is pointless, can Somone please help me out.


----------



## DiggyV

Kid Billy said:


> I've been reading up on ECA and just been given 300 ephindren tabs.
> 
> At the minute I'm on keto (timed carb) diet, s one of the stuff I've read says it's good on keto but also read doing ECA on keto is pointless, can Somone please help me out.


Whoever told you that is talking bollox. ECA works independant of diet.

Also keto and timed carbs are two different diet methods...


----------



## Kid Billy

DiggyV said:


> Whoever told you that is talking bollox. ECA works independant of diet.
> 
> Also keto and timed carbs are two different diet methods...


Cheers mate, just wanted to make sure I wasn't ganna be ****ing against the wind before starting.


----------



## ConstantCut

How much ECA is safe to take in a day?

I took two this morning but I may be doing some cardio later.


----------



## DiggyV

ConstantCut said:


> How much ECA is safe to take in a day?
> 
> I took two this morning but I may be doing some cardio later.


depends which Ephedrine you are taking, or if pre-mixed which ECA it is. Bit more info will help.


----------



## Kid Billy

I took 2 ephedren tabs this morning with 1 caffine tab (need to get asprin today) and although i felt a slight increase in temp there wasnt much, is that still fine or would adding 1 more tab be beneficial?


----------



## ConstantCut

DiggyV said:


> depends which Ephedrine you are taking, or if pre-mixed which ECA it is. Bit more info will help.


It's Zion Labs T5's:

Ephendrine 30mg

Caffine 250mg

Asprin 150mg

Thanks.


----------



## DiggyV

ConstantCut said:


> It's Zion Labs T5's:
> 
> Ephendrine 30mg
> 
> Caffine 250mg
> 
> Asprin 150mg
> 
> Thanks.


OK, and sorry in advance to be the bearer of bad news.

These seem to be sold widely in the UK, and have one of two standard Chinese blends, the other one also contains Naringin. I cover this in first post of this article The ingredients if you look at them probably have the E part written like this (or similar):

30mg EPH

Dont think this is a way of hinting at ephedrine, as it isn't actually ephedrine. They used to contain Ephedra (the plant that ephedrine comes from - but less potent), but since that has been also added to the banned list I am not sure what they contain. However I am pretty well sure it wont be ephedrine. If its not ephedrine then the C and A will give you no additional boost unfortunately. My guess is that it will be one of a couple of other stimulants that are on the market right now, that have yet to be banned. It may be ephedra still, however some of the places I have seen it sold I know wouldn't carry it if it did.

It will still give you that buzz (particularly if it has Acacia Rigidula in it) and help with fat loss, however not to the extent that ECA would.

If you want real ephedrine there are really only two places to go.

1/. The pharmacists and go the chesteze homebrew route (again see original post in this thread)

2/. Order you ephedrine, or ECA from Century Supplements (but check the ingredient list) - one of UK-M's sponsors. They are Canada based so get around the issue with UK Law, as its not illegal to import for personal use (currently)


----------



## ConstantCut

DiggyV said:


> OK, and sorry in advance to be the bearer of bad news.
> 
> These seem to be sold widely in the UK, and have one of two standard Chinese blends, the other one also contains Naringin. I cover this in first post of this article The ingredients if you look at them probably have the E part written like this (or similar):
> 
> 30mg EPH
> 
> Dont think this is a way of hinting at ephedrine, as it isn't actually ephedrine. They used to contain Ephedra (the plant that ephedrine comes from - but less potent), but since that has been also added to the banned list I am not sure what they contain. However I am pretty well sure it wont be ephedrine. If its not ephedrine then the C and A will give you no additional boost unfortunately. My guess is that it will be one of a couple of other stimulants that are on the market right now, that have yet to be banned. It may be ephedra still, however some of the places I have seen it sold I know wouldn't carry it if it did.
> 
> It will still give you that buzz (particularly if it has Acacia Rigidula in it) and help with fat loss, however not to the extent that ECA would.
> 
> If you want real ephedrine there are really only two places to go.
> 
> 1/. The pharmacists and go the chesteze homebrew route (again see original post in this thread)
> 
> 2/. Order you ephedrine, or ECA from Century Supplements (but check the ingredient list) - one of UK-M's sponsors. They are Canada based so get around the issue with UK Law, as its not illegal to import for personal use (currently)


Are my Zion Labs 100% fake? They do not feel it!


----------



## DiggyV

ConstantCut said:


> Are my Zion Labs 100% fake? They do not feel it!


Not fake, just not ECA... They will have another stim in them but it wont be ephedrine...


----------



## ConstantCut

I will look into your suggestion mate. Then again I'm also looking into using T3.


----------



## DiggyV

ConstantCut said:


> I will look into your suggestion mate. Then again I'm also looking into using T3.


if you are running T3 and you want some info, just holler, tag me or PM me... Again I have spent quite a bit of time researching this area, and can help you maximise your losses using it.

Your T5s will help you, but wont be as effective at ECA. They will also probably help with a little appetite suppression which will also aid teh losses.


----------



## ConstantCut

PM'd mate.


----------



## Dan94

When you (or anyone else) were using the ECA stack, did anyone say anything or notice anything different? I just recently started a new job and don't really wanna start using the ECA stack and go in buzzing my nuts off acting completely different lol


----------



## ScouseDrago

I am currently running clen up to 3 tabs which I assume is either 60mcg or 120mcg. The bottle says 4mcg but I have the hand shakes at 3 tabs so must be more. Anyway, would it be OK to run clen for 2 weeks then 2 weeks of a chesteze ECA homebrew??

Also I am doing a recomp. So my workout days I eat above maintenance but on rest days i keep it below maintenance. Will I notice results or would i need to be on a purely cutting diet?


----------



## rfclee

Dan94 said:


> When you (or anyone else) were using the ECA stack, did anyone say anything or notice anything different? I just recently started a new job and don't really wanna start using the ECA stack and go in buzzing my nuts off acting completely different lol


You feel a bit shaky mate that's about it, after you've been on it for a few days they wear off. Some people say it helps them in the gym and its a good pre workout but I've never noticed any really differences other than the helping with weight loss.


----------



## DiggyV

ScouseDrago said:


> I am currently running clen up to 3 tabs which I assume is either 60mcg or 120mcg. The bottle says 4mcg but I have the hand shakes at 3 tabs so must be more. Anyway, would it be OK to run clen for 2 weeks then 2 weeks of a chesteze ECA homebrew??
> 
> Also I am doing a recomp. So my workout days I eat above maintenance but on rest days i keep it below maintenance. Will I notice results or would i need to be on a purely cutting diet?


its likely these will be 40mcg not 4mcg mate 

Unfortunately while you can run ECA after Clen you wont get as much out of it. Clen utilises the Beta receptors in your cells to trigger fat loss and Ephedrine hits both the Alpha and Beta receptors. So with your beta receptors downregulated from the Clen, you wont get the normal hit from ECA. The ECA will keep them down regulated, so when you go back on the Clen you will get much much less than you did the first time.

My suggestion would be to run Clen for 2 weeks on, and then in the 2 weeks off run Yohimbine or Rauwolscine as these are pure Alpha burners, and will allow your beta receptors to get back to normal for your next clen run.


----------



## ScouseDrago

Cheers Diggy. Do you think it is worth running clen ECA or any other fat burner etc with my current diet of below maintenance days and above maintenance days?


----------



## DiggyV

ScouseDrago said:


> Cheers Diggy. Do you think it is worth running clen ECA or any other fat burner etc with my current diet of below maintenance days and above maintenance days?


Depends what you are aiming for mate. Are you above maintenance on training days? Is this trying to recomp?


----------



## DiggyV

RS4 said:


> Diggy whats the longest one can safely run clen for im curremtl on dhacks 120mcg ed for 5 days so far. Was going to run 2 on 2 off but I have nothing to run on the 2 off so was thinking of extending clen use if possible?


Just run 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off, dont panic about running burners full time, your body sometimes can do with the rest.

You can extend clen but need to have either Ketitofen (available form a source normally - which maybe tough for you if you are still out there mate) or you can use the over the counter nytol that you ask the pharmacist for - not the herbal shyte, it needs to contain something called DiPhenHydramine HCL. It will make you sleepy so take it at night. If you run this along side the clen it stops or slows down the down regulation. You can probably get to 4 weeks like this or longer - only you will know as you should still get the same buzz all the way through. However it is always a good idea to give your body a break from these things so 4 weeks on then give yourself at least 2 weeks off.


----------



## ScouseDrago

DiggyV said:


> Depends what you are aiming for mate. Are you above maintenance on training days? Is this trying to recomp?


above maintenance training days only. I know if i wanted to do a serious cut i would be below at all times but i just want to lose abit of fat while maintaining muscle.


----------



## Dan94

rfclee said:


> You feel a bit shaky mate that's about it, after you've been on it for a few days they wear off. Some people say it helps them in the gym and its a good pre workout but I've never noticed any really differences other than the helping with weight loss.


Didn't even feel shaky haha, literally the only thing was no appetite? Had breakfast 8 this morning and only now feeling hungry. No buzz or energy increase, strange


----------



## ConstantCut

Taking into account the above, would it be safe to have 2 x T5's in the morning and 1 pre workout in the evening?


----------



## ConstantCut

This is my ECA. Then again I suppose what is said on the bottle doesn't always mean that is what it is....


----------



## DiggyV

ConstantCut said:


> View attachment 151174
> 
> 
> This is my ECA. Then again I suppose what is said on the bottle doesn't always mean that is what it is....


Genuinely would surprise me if it was Ephedrine, as that ratio is one of the standard bulk blends from China. I know it used to contain Ephedra, and was marketed at ECA30+ (with various different lab names in front of it), but haven't really looked into it recently to work out what they have in it.

However if you get a buzz, and it suppresses appetite then it is doing the job you want it to.


----------



## Kid Billy

@DiggyV I've been taking 2 ephedrine tabs per day with 1 200mg caffeine tab per day.

My appitite is surpressing but I'm not getting much of a buzz, would taking 1 more help or just leave it at 2


----------



## DiggyV

Kid Billy said:


> @DiggyV I've been taking 2 ephedrine tabs per day with 1 200mg caffeine tab per day.
> 
> My appitite is surpressing but I'm not getting much of a buzz, would taking 1 more help or just leave it at 2


It depends what dose the Ephedrine tabs are mate? If you let me know I can help more. Also how long have you been taking them?

You need to include the aspirin mate too, the three work together, as the caffeine is not included for its stimulant properties as these are tiny when compared to Ephedrine, but because in combination with the aspirin it keeps the eph locked into the cell membrane and prolongs its effect.


----------



## Kid Billy

DiggyV said:


> It depends what dose the Ephedrine tabs are mate? If you let me know I can help more. Also how long have you been taking them?
> 
> You need to include the aspirin mate too, the three work together, as the caffeine is not included for its stimulant properties as these are tiny when compared to Ephedrine, but because in combination with the aspirin it keeps the eph locked into the cell membrane and prolongs its effect.


I planned to add the asprin mate only reason I haddant is cos when I finish work the shops are shut so can't get any until tommorra but you have also answered my question on why the aspirin is included so thanks bud lol.

I'm not sure what dose they are mate, I got given 200 of them and when I asked the dose he said he didn't know but to just take 2 of them, ive only been taking them since Sunday.


----------



## DiggyV

Kid Billy said:


> I planned to add the asprin mate only reason I haddant is cos when I finish work the shops are shut so can't get any until tommorra but you have also answered my question on why the aspirin is included so thanks bud lol.
> 
> I'm not sure what dose they are mate, I got given 200 of them and when I asked the dose he said he didn't know but to just take 2 of them, ive only been taking them since Sunday.


my guess is that they are probably 8mg ones if he's saying take 2, that's typical for 'source' ephedrine. The other dose is 30mg, and you'd know if you took 2 of those buggers. :lol:

add in a 75mg aspirin and see how you feel. If still not a lot of buzz try 3 eph, but I wouldn't go a lot higher than this TBH.


----------



## Kid Billy

DiggyV said:


> my guess is that they are probably 8mg ones if he's saying take 2, that's typical for 'source' ephedrine. The other dose is 30mg, and you'd know if you took 2 of those buggers. :lol:
> 
> add in a 75mg aspirin and see how you feel. If still not a lot of buzz try 3 eph, but I wouldn't go a lot higher than this TBH.


Cheers mate I'll do that, the tabs are small white ones and are just a little bit bigger than a clenburerol tab if that helps


----------



## Kid Billy

@DiggyV I got asprin but only one there was was a 300mg tabs, is this no good?


----------



## DiggyV

Kid Billy said:


> @DiggyV I got asprin but only one there was was a 300mg tabs, is this no good?


yes mate, just need to split them down. 1/4 if you can :lol:


----------



## inmotion

Cheers for the great thread Diggy!

Just started my ECA stack two days ago, 17.5mg ephedrine, 150mg caffeine and 75mg aspirin twice a day. To be honest I haven't really felt anything from the ephedrine, no appetite suppressant or anxiety, and I am usually stim-sensitive! Should i definitely feel something at this dosage?

Thanks


----------



## DiggyV

inmotion said:


> Cheers for the great thread Diggy!
> 
> Just started my ECA stack two days ago, 17.5mg ephedrine, 150mg caffeine and 75mg aspirin twice a day. To be honest I haven't really felt anything from the ephedrine, no appetite suppressant or anxiety, and I am usually stim-sensitive! Should i definitely feel something at this dosage?
> 
> Thanks


you should be. where did you get it from, was it from your neighbourhood source or online? (dont list the site) There is a lot of duff ephedrine around and really to be sure you need to get it from somewhere reputable. One of UK-M's sponsors stock hard to find fat burners I believe. :wink:


----------



## inmotion

DiggyV said:


> you should be. where did you get it from, was it from your neighbourhood source or online? (dont list the site) There is a lot of duff ephedrine around and really to be sure you need to get it from somewhere reputable. One of UK-M's sponsors stock hard to find fat burners I believe. :wink:


I bought it from a well-known online retailer, the lab is called 'Atom' and they are 20mg, but can't find any other reference to them online! I shall have to check out said sponsor!


----------



## snowy~kitten

Iv read up about these eca's, iv took ephedrine for weight loss in the past but can't get a hold of the anywhere now, I was thinking of getting some eac but not sure where to online I suppose a lot the online retailers sell fakes so I don't want to be riped off, and one got any recommendation??


----------



## Aliking10

snowy~kitten said:


> Iv read up about these eca's, iv took ephedrine for weight loss in the past but can't get a hold of the anywhere now, I was thinking of getting some eac but not sure where to online I suppose a lot the online retailers sell fakes so I don't want to be riped off, and one got any recommendation??


Homebrew Chesteze stack.

Buy the Chesteze in bulk from eBay.


----------



## snowy~kitten

Chesteze really?? So would I take them with aspirin and caffeine??


----------



## MrM

snowy~kitten said:


> Chesteze really?? So would I take them with aspirin and caffeine??


Yes, I did 1 chest eze, 4 pro plus and 1 75mg aspirin

At first it's quite a buzz but dies away after a few days and I was able to work up to two doses a day. I've just had two weeks off and start again today - time to visit several chemists.


----------



## Aliking10

snowy~kitten said:


> Chesteze really?? So would I take them with aspirin and caffeine??


The right dosage is on the first page. @DiggyV is the master of all these drugs so I'd follow that if I was you. Then work the dosing times to your own training schedule.


----------



## DiggyV

snowy~kitten said:


> Chesteze really?? So would I take them with aspirin and caffeine??


yup really :lol:

chest-eze is pharmaceutical ephedrine, 18mg of it (with 30mg caffeine per tab also)

so to get to 1:10:4 you need:

1 x chesteze (18mg eph + 30mg caff)

3 x pro-plus (or Tescos or boots etc equivalent - 50mg per tab - 150mg)

1 x 75mg aspirin (if using the enteric coated ones the split them in half first otherwise the coating will slo absorption)

this gives:

18 eph

180 caff

75 asp

18:180:75

or:

1:10:4.2

simples!


----------



## Kid Billy

DiggyV said:


> yup really :lol:
> 
> chest-eze is pharmaceutical ephedrine, 18mg of it (with 30mg caffeine per tab also)
> 
> so to get to 1:10:4 you need:
> 
> 1 x chesteze (18mg eph + 30mg caff)
> 
> 3 x pro-plus (or Tescos or boots etc equivalent - 50mg per tab - 150mg)
> 
> 1 x 75mg aspirin (if using the enteric coated ones the split them in half first otherwise the coating will slo absorption)
> 
> this gives:
> 
> 18 eph
> 
> 180 caff
> 
> 75 asp
> 
> 18:180:75
> 
> or:
> 
> 1:10:4.2
> 
> simples!


What if the caffine ratios are off mate, will or still have max effect


----------



## DiggyV

Kid Billy said:


> What if the caffine ratios are off mate, will or still have max effect


As long as it's not less than 10 should be g2g


----------



## snowy~kitten

DiggyV said:


> yup really :lol:
> 
> chest-eze is pharmaceutical ephedrine, 18mg of it (with 30mg caffeine per tab also)
> 
> so to get to 1:10:4 you need:
> 
> 1 x chesteze (18mg eph + 30mg caff)
> 
> 3 x pro-plus (or Tescos or boots etc equivalent - 50mg per tab - 150mg)
> 
> 1 x 75mg aspirin (if using the enteric coated ones the split them in half first otherwise the coating will slo absorption)
> 
> this gives:
> 
> 18 eph
> 
> 180 caff
> 
> 75 asp
> 
> 18:180:75
> 
> or:
> 
> 1:10:4.2
> 
> simples!


----------



## snowy~kitten

Cheers for that il get some and give it a go


----------



## Mikeyjae

Pharmacy first seems to sell Chest EZE. How many boxes do you think you could order before they say no lol. It seems Amazon dont sell them anymore and I was told you could only buy 3 at a time from them.


----------



## Dan94

Mikeyjae said:


> Pharmacy first seems to sell Chest EZE. How many boxes do you think you could order before they say no lol. It seems Amazon dont sell them anymore and I was told you could only buy 3 at a time from them.


ebay mate


----------



## TURBS

Mikeyjae said:


> Pharmacy first seems to sell Chest EZE. How many boxes do you think you could order before they say no lol.


I received my six boxes from them yesterday


----------



## Mikeyjae

I dont have a Ebay account pal, I should really catch up with the times and get one lol. Ill try it off that website then if you have managed to get 6 boxes.


----------



## dave1180

You could just have a wander around your local town stopping off at all the chemists..


----------



## TURBS

Mikeyjae said:


> I dont have a Ebay account pal, I should really catch up with the times and get one lol. Ill try it off that website then if you have managed to get 6 boxes.


Whoops my mistake, after checking it was my pharmacist, not pharmacy first :blush:


----------



## Dan94

Mikeyjae said:


> I dont have a Ebay account pal, I should really catch up with the times and get one lol. Ill try it off that website then if you have managed to get 6 boxes.


Can always order as a guest


----------



## Mikeyjae

T3RBO said:


> Whoops my mistake, after checking it was my pharmacist, not pharmacy first :blush:


Just ordered 4 from My Pharmacist. :thumbup1:


----------



## squarego

Great thread and good to hear folk getting results.

I have a question and hope someone can assist plz? I was taking cocodamol and paracetamol for about a week but thurs/fri I had started on Tramadols, just one in the morning as I've broken some bones. I havent touched any pain killers over the weekend though and wanted to start ECA stack Monday morning. @DiggyV or anyone else on the thread, can you advise if I can take any pain killers along side ECA? I will be using chesteze/proplus/aspirin

Cheers folks...

p.s. I felt dirty walking out the pharmacy with the chesteze lol. When I asked for it, the 3 woman behind the counter all stopped and looked at each other as if I had asked for heroin or something. Then had to go through the whole "you really should go to the doctors etc" ffs :whistling:


----------



## barndoor5

I have d-hacks t5's, but no matter what time i taken them they always affect my sleep. Last time i tried them i only lasted 10 days.

Would there be any benefit to running half a tab a day?


----------



## DiggyV

squarego said:


> Great thread and good to hear folk getting results.
> 
> I have a question and hope someone can assist plz? I was taking cocodamol and paracetamol for about a week but thurs/fri I had started on Tramadols, just one in the morning as I've broken some bones. I havent touched any pain killers over the weekend though and wanted to start ECA stack Monday morning. @DiggyV or anyone else on the thread, can you advise if I can take any pain killers along side ECA? I will be using chesteze/proplus/aspirin
> 
> Cheers folks...
> 
> p.s. I felt dirty walking out the pharmacy with the chesteze lol. When I asked for it, the 3 woman behind the counter all stopped and looked at each other as if I had asked for heroin or something. Then had to go through the whole "you really should go to the doctors etc" ffs :whistling:


I would give yourself a little longer off the pain killers, particularly something as strong as tramadol, before you hit the ECA. Also as ECA shifts your metabolism up a notch it may affect your perception of pain - I have nothing to back this up from a study perspective, just a gut feel I have on the interaction between pain perception and ephedrine.

:lol: at the way pharmacists make you feel - I think they go on a special course to learn how to do it.


----------



## DiggyV

barndoor5 said:


> I have d-hacks t5's, but no matter what time i taken them they always affect my sleep. Last time i tried them i only lasted 10 days.
> 
> Would there be any benefit to running half a tab a day?


Could do mate. The thing with those T5s is that they also contain DMAA, which is a great stim in its own right. SO half a tab should still give you a nice hit.


----------



## squarego

DiggyV said:


> I would give yourself a little longer off the pain killers, particularly something as strong as tramadol, before you hit the ECA. Also as ECA shifts your metabolism up a notch it may affect your perception of pain - I have nothing to back this up from a study perspective, just a gut feel I have on the interaction between pain perception and ephedrine.
> 
> :lol: at the way pharmacists make you feel - I think they go on a special course to learn how to do it.


Repped for the info, thanks for that bud  :thumbup1:


----------



## DiggyV

no worries mate. 



squarego said:


> Repped for the info, thanks for that bud :thumbup1:


----------



## ConstantCut

Just ordered some "T5+" from a well known lab, looking forward to smashing some cardio when it rocks up!


----------



## snowy~kitten

Ok so iv not bought any Chesteze yet cos I still have some ephedrine pills but they are very weak one's never felt any affect from this batch iv got so took them with pro plus and aspirin last night and boom!!!! felt the affects


----------



## DiggyV

snowy~kitten said:


> Ok so iv not bought any Chesteze yet cos I still have some ephedrine pills but they are very weak one's never felt any affect from this batch iv got so took them with pro plus and aspirin last night and boom!!!! felt the affects


yeah the three together is like 1+1+1=5. It will wear off if you take it daily, which is why you cycle it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.


----------



## Mikeyjae

Iv seen some people mention substituting caffeine pills with strong coffee while taking a home made ECA stack. What is deemed a strong black coffee? 1 tea spoon ? 2 tea spoons etc etc.


----------



## DiggyV

Mikeyjae said:


> Iv seen some people mention substituting caffeine pills with strong coffee while taking a home made ECA stack. What is deemed a strong black coffee? 1 tea spoon ? 2 tea spoons etc etc.


You need to make sure you are getting 150-200mg caffeine in. A single espresso is about 50-80mg, so it needs to be probably 2-3 heaped teaspoons of instant I would suggest. It should tell you the caffeine content on the jar I believe.


----------



## reidp

Are these g2g?


----------



## DiggyV

reidp said:


> Are these g2g?


if you bought them in a shop, then highly unlikely. If you bought them off a supplement site, could you send me a link. However TBH I doubt it...


----------



## reidp

DiggyV said:


> if you bought them in a shop, then highly unlikely. If you bought them off a supplement site, could you send me a link. However TBH I doubt it...


Bought them off a gear supplier


----------



## DiggyV

reidp said:


> Bought them off a gear supplier


managed to find an ingredienyt list on line:

50 capsules X Eph 30mg, Caffeine Anhydrous HLC 200mg & White W B 30mg

They look suspiciously like the standard Chinese blend I am afraid - Also white willow isn't strictly aspirin. White willow contains salicin, whereas aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, and while the willow will aid pain relief, it really needs to be aspirin to have the effect you need from ECA. You will get a kick from them, but I very much doubt it is genuine ephedrine in them, and wont be the same as ECA.


----------



## Mikeyjae

Started the home brew today, 1 Chest Eze, 3 Pro-Plus, 75mg Asperin. First dose at 8am this morning and I cant really say I felt any different, if anything I felt abit hotter, nearly sweating but that could just be down to the muggy storm weather today. 2nd dose at 3pm and I nearly fell asleep lol im not joking. Will the ECA stack still have the same weight loss potential even thou im not feeling any heart beat or energy changes?


----------



## reidp

DiggyV said:


> managed to find an ingredienyt list on line:
> 
> 50 capsules X Eph 30mg, Caffeine Anhydrous HLC 200mg & White W B 30mg
> 
> They look suspiciously like the standard Chinese blend I am afraid - Also white willow isn't strictly aspirin. White willow contains salicin, whereas aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, and while the willow will aid pain relief, it really needs to be aspirin to have the effect you need from ECA. You will get a kick from them, but I very much doubt it is genuine ephedrine in them, and wont be the same as ECA.


Thanks for your help pal.


----------



## sauliuhas

would warfarin be better then aspirin - apparently warfarin is better for blood thining?!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27760736


----------



## DiggyV

sauliuhas said:


> would warfarin be better then aspirin - apparently warfarin is better for blood thining?!
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27760736


No mate. Got nothing to do with thinning the blood. The aspirin works in conjunction with the caffeine to 'lock in' the ephedrine to the cell prolonging its action. Its not quite that, but is the easiest to explain.

Also TBH there is no way I'd want to take Warfarin or would I ever recommend anyone taking it. Its a very serious medication, and one you wouldn't want to get wrong by self medicating.


----------



## Jaymehh

So Im looking into starting ECA Stacks to help with my goals, I just have one question? Im on Beta Blockers for a constant headache I have, Would they cause any problems with each other?


----------



## DiggyV

Jaymehh said:


> So Im looking into starting ECA Stacks to help with my goals, I just have one question? Im on Beta Blockers for a constant headache I have, Would they cause any problems with each other?


To be honest, I'm not sure taking ephedrine or any stimulant would be a good idea with beta blockers, as it basically is a stimulant which acts on the beta receptor to a certain extent, therefore cancelling out the action of the tablets you are taking. They will effectively cancel each other out, and so you may well end up with little or no fat loss and your headaches returning. Not the best idea.

If you want to try something you may well be better on something like Yohimbine where this is a pure alpha agonist and will not interact with your beta receptors.

However IMO stim based burners may not be a good choice for you to start with.


----------



## rfclee

@DiggyV

wondering if you could maybe clear something up please mate, are you able to take pre workouts while on ECA? Taking it twice a day and have some BBW warrior rage.

Will there be any negative effects from taking the warrior rage? Dont want to take it without getting your noble advice

cheers

*mTOR Activation & Cortisol Control System:*

*
8:1:1 100% Instantised Branch Chain Amino Acids (Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine), Vitamin C*

*
Endur-Strength Synergistic Complex:*

*
Beta Alanine, Creatine Gluconate, Sodium Bicarbonate*

*
Pump & Power Matrix:*

*
Arginine AAKG, Citrulline Malate, Taurine, Caffeine (300mg), Vitamin B6*


----------



## DiggyV

rfclee said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> wondering if you could maybe clear something up please mate, are you able to take pre workouts while on ECA? Taking it twice a day and have some BBW warrior rage.
> 
> Will there be any negative effects from taking the warrior rage? Dont want to take it without getting your noble advice
> 
> cheers
> 
> *mTOR Activation & Cortisol Control System:*
> 
> *
> 8:1:1 100% Instantised Branch Chain Amino Acids (Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine), Vitamin C*
> 
> *
> Endur-Strength Synergistic Complex:*
> 
> *
> Beta Alanine, Creatine Gluconate, Sodium Bicarbonate*
> 
> *
> Pump & Power Matrix:*
> 
> *
> Arginine AAKG, Citrulline Malate, Taurine, Caffeine (300mg), Vitamin B6*


 :lol:

yeah, you are fine with that one, no additional stims. Its relying on caffein for a central nervous system pick me up, and taurine to help blood flow.

The problem ones to look out for in the ingredient list are:

Olive Leaf Extract

Acacia Rigidula

Higenamine

also on old formulation Jack3D

DMAA

These will mean your alpha receptors downregulate quicker and so the ECA will become less effective in a shorter period of time.

Hope this helps

:thumb:


----------



## rfclee

DiggyV said:


> :lol:
> 
> yeah, you are fine with that one, no additional stims. Its relying on caffein for a central nervous system pick me up, and taurine to help blood flow.
> 
> The problem ones to look out for in the ingredient list are:
> 
> Olive Leaf Extract
> 
> Acacia Rigidula
> 
> Higenamine
> 
> also on old formulation Jack3D
> 
> DMAA
> 
> These will mean your alpha receptors downregulate quicker and so the ECA will become less effective in a shorter period of time.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> :thumb:


excellent advice as always cheers


----------



## AlexHealy

If I buy aspirin from tesco what brand should I get?


----------



## kreig

Cheapest you can find


----------



## AlexHealy

So I can use any?


----------



## saxondale

Any brand, cheap as possible, if gastro resistant you'll need to bite them first (cheers @DiggyV)


----------



## Tom90

@DiggyV if ECA is an alpha receptor antagonist, and Clen is a beta receptor antagonist, is there any reason why you shouldn't/couldn't run ECA for 2 weeks on, and then take clen during your 2 weeks off?


----------



## DiggyV

Tom90 said:


> @DiggyV if ECA is an alpha receptor antagonist, and Clen is a beta receptor antagonist, is there any reason why you shouldn't/couldn't run ECA for 2 weeks on, and then take clen during your 2 weeks off?


Yes mate there is. While Eph is primarily an alpha agonist it is also a weak beat agonist too. It's actually quite a poor ligand for beta, but enough for down regulation to start. So cycling as you suggest will mean you don't get a lot from the clen.

There are two ways around this. Firstly run Yohimbine, or rauwolscine, or DMAA instead of eca. Alternatively, take either ketitofen or DiPhenHydramin HCL at night and this will stop the beta down regulation from happening.

Ket is from your source, DiPhen is in the version of Nytol or boots own brand that you have to ask the pharmacist for. Not the stuff that you find on the shelves in Tescos, completely different thing.

Hope this helps.


----------



## rfclee

AlexHealy said:


> So I can use any?


these http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266990312


----------



## Tom90

DiggyV said:


> Yes mate there is. While Eph is primarily an alpha agonist it is also a weak beat agonist too. It's actually quite a poor ligand for beta, but enough for down regulation to start. So cycling as you suggest will mean you don't get a lot from the clen.
> 
> There are two ways around this. Firstly run Yohimbine, or rauwolscine, or DMAA instead of eca. Alternatively, take either ketitofen or DiPhenHydramin HCL at night and this will stop the beta down regulation from happening.
> 
> Ket is from your source, DiPhen is in the version of Nytol or boots own brand that you have to ask the pharmacist for. Not the stuff that you find on the shelves in Tescos, completely different thing.
> 
> Hope this helps.


That certainly does help mate, cheers.

My source sells Ketotifen in 10 x 1mg packs, is 1mg before bed the dose you'd recommend?

Also, if ket stops the downregulation of cells, what dose would you run clen at, if you were to run it continuously? I usually go up to 120mcg after 6/7 days of a 2 weeks cycle, then stick to that dose until the end.

Last one. Could you run ECA and Clen at the same time, for a continuous period, if you were taking the Ket?

TIA


----------



## DiggyV

Tom90 said:


> That certainly does help mate, cheers.
> 
> My source sells Ketotifen in 10 x 1mg packs, is 1mg before bed the dose you'd recommend?
> 
> Also, if ket stops the downregulation of cells, what dose would you run clen at, if you were to run it continuously? I usually go up to 120mcg after 6/7 days of a 2 weeks cycle, then stick to that dose until the end.
> 
> Last one. Could you run ECA and Clen at the same time, for a continuous period, if you were taking the Ket?
> 
> TIA


Yes mate, 1mg at night. :thumb:

I'd still work up and find my shake point and then drop down by 20 or 40 mcg , and then run at that. . Also would limit the time I was on, just for physiological reasons. Take time off to distress your body. . I reckon max on should be 4 weeks with a 2 week gap.

And no I wouldn't stack them. You won't get the benefit as you will probably end up taking less Clen to stop the shakes, as the combination will make you shake more. . Clen is more effective than eca so I would just stick with that.


----------



## KletoReese

Terrific post! I must ask, after your ECA cycles, have you managed to keep the fat loss off permanently or have you rebounded?

Thanks!


----------



## AlexHealy

rfclee said:


> these http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=266990312


Thank you.


----------



## Dan94

What's the primary difference between ECA and Clen mate? I've seen them compared against eachother quite a lot


----------



## saxondale

Also @DiggyV.

Is there any reason to break before switching to clen from an eca (1 week into 2 week cycle)


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> What's the primary difference between ECA and Clen mate? I've seen them compared against eachother quite a lot


ECA is promarily an alpha agonist that is its action is mainly on your alpha receptors (Alpha-2) with some action on the beta receptors, whilst Clen is a Beta agonist (Beta-3). They do the same job basically, however ECA will acount for maybe a 4-5% matabolic lift, Clen around 8-9% poss even 10%.



saxondale said:


> Also @DiggyV.
> 
> Is there any reason to break before switching to clen from an eca (1 week into 2 week cycle)


Unless you are using Ketitofen or DIPhenHydramine HCL with the Clen you should have 2 weeks between Clen and ECA as above, whilst Eph is primarily an alpha agonist, it does have some Beta action, and so will keep your beta receptors suppressed. Better would be Yohimbine and Clen. or just run CLen 2 weeks on/off.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> ECA is promarily an alpha agonist that is its action is mainly on your alpha receptors (Alpha-2) with some action on the beta receptors, whilst Clen is a Beta agonist (Beta-3). They do the same job basically, however ECA will acount for maybe a 4-5% matabolic lift, Clen around 8-9% poss even 10%.
> 
> Unless you are using Ketitofen or DIPhenHydramine HCL with the Clen you should have 2 weeks between Clen and ECA as above, whilst Eph is primarily an alpha agonist, it does have some Beta action, and so will keep your beta receptors suppressed. Better would be Yohimbine and Clen. or just run CLen 2 weeks on/off.


Which would you say is the best fat burner? Excluding DNP of course, out of Clen, Yoh and ECA?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> Which would you say is the best fat burner? Excluding DNP of course, out of Clen, Yoh and ECA?


Clen, hands down.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> Clen, hands down.


What does it actually do? I know ECA raises metabolic rate and suppress appetite, but haven't heard much of what clen actually does.

Is there a special thread like this anywhere mate?


----------



## DiggyV

Dan94 said:


> What does it actually do? I know ECA raises metabolic rate and suppress appetite, but haven't heard much of what clen actually does.
> 
> Is there a special thread like this anywhere mate?


I am meaning to write one, but am just too busy at the moment. Basically it's action is almost identical to ephedrine, but acts on a different receptor and is more efficient. Higher lift in metabolic rate, upto 9%, compared to ECA at 4-5%


----------



## xjx

I've read your original post, are your recommendations for E and C still the same? I beleive bronchaid is easier to get here, but not sure what your opinion on that is.


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> I am meaning to write one, but am just too busy at the moment. Basically it's action is almost identical to ephedrine, but acts on a different receptor and is more efficient. Higher lift in metabolic rate, upto 9%, compared to ECA at 4-5%


Cheers mate


----------



## xjx

It's been about an hour and twenty minutes since I took my first EC stack, left the A out for now and don't feel a thing. I must have high tolerance for stimulants given that I've taken upwards of 600mg caffeine pills before and don't seem to feel much of a difference. In order to feel my current Pre workout, C4, I take 3 scoops, more than the max 2 scoop recommendation. Ah, sigh. :/

Only time I truly felt something work was DMAA, I accidentally took it not knowing it was included in an old Synadrex formula. Which is stronger? DMAA or E?


----------



## saxondale

xjx said:


> It's been about an hour and twenty minutes since I took my first EC stack, left the A out for now and don't feel a thing. I must have high tolerance for stimulants given that I've taken upwards of 600mg caffeine pills before and don't seem to feel much of a difference. In order to feel my current Pre workout, C4, I take 3 scoops, more than the max 2 scoop recommendation. Ah, sigh. :/
> 
> Only time I truly felt something work was DMAA, I accidentally took it not knowing it was included in an old Synadrex formula. Which is stronger? DMAA or E?


You need to A to make it work.


----------



## DiggyV

xjx said:


> It's been about an hour and twenty minutes since I took my first EC stack, left the A out for now and don't feel a thing. I must have high tolerance for stimulants given that I've taken upwards of 600mg caffeine pills before and don't seem to feel much of a difference. In order to feel my current Pre workout, C4, I take 3 scoops, more than the max 2 scoop recommendation. Ah, sigh. :/
> 
> Only time I truly felt something work was DMAA, I accidentally took it not knowing it was included in an old Synadrex formula. Which is stronger? DMAA or E?


Its a common mistake to leave the A out, and you are missing a trick. The three kind of act like 1+1+1=5. What ephedrine are you using. Most eph bought from your source will be pretty low content if any at all.

The only stimulant in C4 is caffeine, it is not like the old pre-workouts that were full of stims. So you may actually not get a 'hit' as such from it at all.

In terms of metabolic lift, and hence fat loss, E is better, it hits 2 different receptors alpha and beta, whereas DMAA only hits the alpha receptors, so its likely that you will just be more sensitive to the action of DMAA on these.


----------



## xjx

saxondale said:


> You need to A to make it work.


I'll be sure to add A to my next stack. Thanks!



DiggyV said:


> Its a common mistake to leave the A out, and you are missing a trick. The three kind of act like 1+1+1=5. What ephedrine are you using. Most eph bought from your source will be pretty low content if any at all.
> 
> The only stimulant in C4 is caffeine, it is not like the old pre-workouts that were full of stims. So you may actually not get a 'hit' as such from it at all.
> 
> In terms of metabolic lift, and hence fat loss, E is better, it hits 2 different receptors alpha and beta, whereas DMAA only hits the alpha receptors, so its likely that you will just be more sensitive to the action of DMAA on these.


First, thanks for taking the time to respond. My E is coming from Bronkaid (25mg Ephedrine Sulfate, 400mg Guaifenesin) Is there a problem being that it's '*Ephedrine Sulfate*' and not just Ephedrine? C is from NutraBulk's 200mg capsules. I'm in the US, would Bayer low dose aspirin be fine? I couldn't find Chest Eze here.

Thanks again!


----------



## DiggyV

xjx said:


> I'll be sure to add A to my next stack. Thanks!
> 
> First, thanks for taking the time to respond. My E is coming from Bronkaid (25mg Ephedrine Sulfate, 400mg Guaifenesin) Is there a problem being that it's '*Ephedrine Sulfate*' and not just Ephedrine? C is from NutraBulk's 200mg capsules. I'm in the US, would Bayer low dose aspirin be fine? I couldn't find Chest Eze here.
> 
> Thanks again!


Ephedrine Sulfate :thumb:

Low dose aspirin will be fine


----------



## xjx

DiggyV said:


> Ephedrine Sulfate :thumb:
> 
> Low dose aspirin will be fine


Thank you DiggyV, I just bought some A about an hour ago. Will stack all three tomorrow on an empty stomach. I'll report back with results!


----------



## DiggyV

xjx said:


> Thank you DiggyV, I just bought some A about an hour ago. Will stack all three tomorrow on an empty stomach. I'll report back with results!


basically the caffeine and aspirin work together to lock in the action of the Eph on the cell membrane, so it dissipates slower. Should give a bigger and longer kick.

Outside of the C4 is there anything else you are taking?


----------



## xjx

DiggyV said:


> basically the caffeine and aspirin work together to lock in the action of the Eph on the cell membrane, so it dissipates slower. Should give a bigger and longer kick.
> 
> Outside of the C4 is there anything else you are taking?


That's all I'm using, and I rarely do. I. Anxious to see how I respond to ECA today! Yesterday after a couple hours I did feel a bit more energetic. After my workout I went to the movies and could not sit still. Thanks again!


----------



## xjx

@DiggyV

So it's been a couple of hours now, I did the ECA this time. I realize I need to be more realistic in my expectations. I do feel more energetic, not jittery (which I'd actually prefer) but definitely notice a difference. I'm assuming what matters is not necessarily the energy, but the thermo side of things correct? It's main purpose being accelerated fat loss, and energy second. The time I took the Synadrex, I felt like a beast at work. I had no idea that it had dmaa so not sure if it was a placebo, or just my reaction to trying a stimulant unknowingly.

Regardless, there's definitely a difference in energy and alertness, but most importantly I'm assuming accelerated metabolism on fat tissue is it's main purpose? Thanks again mate!


----------



## Dan94

DiggyV said:


> basically the caffeine and aspirin work together to lock in the action of the Eph on the cell membrane, so it dissipates slower. Should give a bigger and longer kick.
> 
> Outside of the C4 is there anything else you are taking?


Its actually surprising how much the Aspirin works. I noticed it today. Yesterday I had ECA at 1pm and wasn't hungry untill about 7:30pm. Today, I ran out of A so just had EC, even at a later time of 3pm I was absolutely starving by 5pm, although I ate exactly the same as yesterday.

Just proves its not just "science"! Defo notice a difference


----------



## Dan94

xjx said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> So it's been a couple of hours now, I did the ECA this time. I realize I need to be more realistic in my expectations. I do feel more energetic, not jittery (which I'd actually prefer) but definitely notice a difference. I'm assuming what matters is not necessarily the energy, but the thermo side of things correct? It's main purpose being accelerated fat loss, and energy second. The time I took the Synadrex, I felt like a beast at work. I had no idea that it had dmaa so not sure if it was a placebo, or just my reaction to trying a stimulant unknowingly.
> 
> Regardless, there's definitely a difference in energy and alertness, but most importantly I'm assuming accelerated metabolism on fat tissue is it's main purpose? Thanks again mate!


it basically ups your metabolic rate so you burn more calories whilst resting as well theoretically


----------



## DiggyV

xjx said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> So it's been a couple of hours now, I did the ECA this time. I realize I need to be more realistic in my expectations. I do feel more energetic, not jittery (which I'd actually prefer) but definitely notice a difference. I'm assuming what matters is not necessarily the energy, but the thermo side of things correct? It's main purpose being accelerated fat loss, and energy second. The time I took the Synadrex, I felt like a beast at work. I had no idea that it had dmaa so not sure if it was a placebo, or just my reaction to trying a stimulant unknowingly.
> 
> Regardless, there's definitely a difference in energy and alertness, but most importantly I'm assuming accelerated metabolism on fat tissue is it's main purpose? Thanks again mate!


spot on, it basically increases metabolic rate and burns more cals. So if you are stationary you burn more and if you exercise you burn even more, and if you do some cardio (NOT HIIT steady state is best) then you burn even more.

Its odd there are a lot of threads I read claiming EC does the same job as ECA, and it really doesn't, as I hope you have seen 

:thumb:


----------



## xjx

DiggyV said:


> spot on, it basically increases metabolic rate and burns more cals. So if you are stationary you burn more and if you exercise you burn even more, and if you do some cardio (NOT HIIT steady state is best) then you burn even more.
> 
> Its odd there are a lot of threads I read claiming EC does the same job as ECA, and it really doesn't, as I hope you have seen
> 
> :thumb:


Yes I have, thanks for the help!


----------



## xjx

@DiggyV

Once again thanks for the help and I'm sorry to keep bugging you. I can't help but wonder about your opinion on nicotine as another stimulant/fat burner? I used to cycle it on and off, for a short time, but eventually I quit using it as I couldn't dial in my diet just right at the time. Was just wondering if maybe nicotine could be added to the stack? Sorry if this is not the right place to ask.


----------



## PARASXOS

so guys let me ask,lets say my maintance calories are 3000,excersise included,putting eca will they go 2900?


----------



## DiggyV

PARASXOS said:


> so guys let me ask,lets say my maintance calories are 3000,excersise included,putting eca will they go 2900?


Not quite - its the other way. If you think that you burn 3000 cals in a day, then when you add ECA this helps you burn more. So it would be 3150 or there abouts. It varies from person to person, but that would be about the amount it would add. However obviously the more exercise you do the greater impact it has.

So I used to spend an additional hour on the treadmill 3 times a week when getting back into shape - ECA added about 500 additional cals burned. So makes a difference. Also as it can suppress appetite, it helps with dieting too.


----------



## GLV

I've previously used D-Hacks T5 Extreme, and although they worked for me on the appetite side of things they gave me stim dick, which for me is a side effect I'm not prepared to deal with.

Your stack of 1 x Chest-Eze (18mg), 3 x pro-plus (150mg) & 1 x junior aspirin (75mg) is a lower dose than the D-Hacks T5 & doesn't contain the 1,3 Dim. Have you heard of anyone experiencing any issues? I know the only way to test my tolerance is to try it, but it takes around 7-10 days to get back to normal so thought it would be worth asking.

I'm only 5'6', and my tolerance for OTC fat burners is pretty low - but for D-Hacks T5 it was fine apart from the stim dick. I know the only way to test my tolerance is to try it, but it takes around 7-10 days to get back to normal so thought it would be worth asking.


----------



## DiggyV

xjx said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> Once again thanks for the help and I'm sorry to keep bugging you. I can't help but wonder about your opinion on nicotine as another stimulant/fat burner? I used to cycle it on and off, for a short time, but eventually I quit using it as I couldn't dial in my diet just right at the time. Was just wondering if maybe nicotine could be added to the stack? Sorry if this is not the right place to ask.


IMO - too many negatives really with nicotine for it to be considered viable. Also like caffeine it is more of a central nervous system stimulant - releasing dopamine - rather than a direct acting fat burner like Ephedrine is. I know there have been claims about caffeine as a fat burner but its effects are negligible despite the figures being bandied about. If you look at the actual studies then the action of caffeine would account for much less than a 1% hike in metabolic rate. I reckon nicotine would be the same. Sure heart rate rises, but this does not indicate a efficacy for burning fat. <1% - you'd be better off walking for 10 minutes.


----------



## DiggyV

GLV said:


> I've previously used D-Hacks T5 Extreme, and although they worked for me on the appetite side of things they gave me stim dick, which for me is a side effect I'm not prepared to deal with.
> 
> Your stack of 1 x Chest-Eze (18mg), 3 x pro-plus (150mg) & 1 x junior aspirin (75mg) is a lower dose than the D-Hacks T5 & doesn't contain the 1,3 Dim. Have you heard of anyone experiencing any issues? I know the only way to test my tolerance is to try it, but it takes around 7-10 days to get back to normal so thought it would be worth asking.
> 
> I'm only 5'6', and my tolerance for OTC fat burners is pretty low - but for D-Hacks T5 it was fine apart from the stim dick. I know the only way to test my tolerance is to try it, but it takes around 7-10 days to get back to normal so thought it would be worth asking.


The stim dick is most likely from the DMAA. The ECA stack has never had this effect on me, however Dexaprine (the original formula) did and that was primarily DMAA.

But as you say - best way is to try it.

Also never known it take 7-10 days to recover, I was normally OK later in the day...


----------



## GLV

DiggyV said:


> The stim dick is most likely from the DMAA. The ECA stack has never had this effect on me, however Dexaprine (the original formula) did and that was primarily DMAA.
> 
> But as you say - best way is to try it.
> 
> Also never known it take 7-10 days to recover, I was normally OK later in the day...


Thanks, I did a lot of research when it happened & I came to the conclusion it was the DMAA as they're a fair few threads on people getting the same effect.

I noticed improvement the day after, but was around a week to be back to normal - this could just have been me worrying or again the DMAA.

I've got some Chest-eze & will start on Saturday and let you know how it goes. Do you recommend one dose a day?


----------



## DiggyV

GLV said:


> Thanks, I did a lot of research when it happened & I came to the conclusion it was the DMAA as they're a fair few threads on people getting the same effect.
> 
> I noticed improvement the day after, but was around a week to be back to normal - this could just have been me worrying or again the DMAA.
> 
> I've got some Chest-eze & will start on Saturday and let you know how it goes. Do you recommend one dose a day?


yes mate to start off with - can possibly move to 2 a day once you have assessed your tolerance. Some people never go higher than one, me included.


----------



## Chris XIII

Got everything together and going to start the chesteze stack today. Any recommendations about how to take like with a meal or empty stomach or does it not really matter.


----------



## saxondale

Chrome Wings said:


> Got everything together and going to start the chesteze stack today. Any recommendations about how to take like with a meal or empty stomach or does it not really matter.


Just down it first thing with a big glass of water


----------



## dudeasca

hello

i need some help ...i did some research and decided to get eca stack for some fat loss

i already posted an thread about clen . but no1 couldn`t answer me...so i read more about eca

i decided to take 2weeks on / 2 off

i have some questions plz

i usualy train at 5 pm right after work

should i take

1 x chesteze = 18mg eph + 30mg caff

3 x pro-plus or equivalent = 150mg caff

1 x 75mg dispersible aspirin like this right in the morning after wakeup at like 9am on empty stomach ? and after like 30 min i should eat ?

and another dossage like above 30 mins before workout ?!

also where can i get eph pills ?

i have a "friend" who sells them for like 50 $ 30 pils 50 mg/pil

don`t know where he has them or how good are them ....can anyone lead me to an onlineshop ? i m from europe - romania

tnks a lot


----------



## mb1980

Great thread chaps!

I've just ordered some ephedrine and caffeine from a Canadian company already named in this thread. Could you confirm the optimum time for my wife and I to consume please. We'll start with one small dose and work our way up to be safe.

I'm using intermittent fasting protocol at present. Normally wake up around 5/6am then train fasted at around 10/11ish. Would taking the stack when I wake up be to early, or would you recommend waiting until closer the workout? Then when I introduce a 2nd dose, take around 4-6 hours later?

My wife wakes up at 630 and trains at 5pm. When would be the ideal times for her when taking one dose, then later two? She is also intermittent fasting until midday.

Would like to optimize the benefits from the stack.

Many thanks.


----------



## saxondale

mb1980 said:


> Great thread chaps!
> 
> I've just ordered some ephedrine and caffeine from a Canadian company already named in this thread. Could you confirm the optimum time for my wife and I to consume please. We'll start with one small dose and work our way up to be safe.
> 
> I'm using intermittent fasting protocol at present. Normally wake up around 5/6am then train fasted at around 10/11ish. Would taking the stack when I wake up be to early, or would you recommend waiting until closer the workout? Then when I introduce a 2nd dose, take around 4-6 hours later?
> 
> My wife wakes up at 630 and trains at 5pm. When would be the ideal times for her when taking one dose, then later two? She is also intermittent fasting until midday.
> 
> Would like to optimize the benefits from the stack.
> 
> Many thanks.


Take one (dont forget the asprin) first thing in the morning, I never take two as it keeps me awake too much at night.


----------



## dudeasca

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Do-Do-Chesteze-Chest-Eze-9-Tablets-X-5-/321375552864?pt=UK_Health_HealthCare_RL&hash=item4ad379c560

is it safe to buy from here ?


----------



## Chris XIII

Great guide @DiggyV, had heard about ECA before but your instructions and info on Chesteze stack made it an easy decision.

First week and have lost 4 lbs and have found the appetite suppression to be best I've ever had without the sense of energy loss from not eating.


----------



## Dan94

dudeasca said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Do-Do-Chesteze-Chest-Eze-9-Tablets-X-5-/321375552864?pt=UK_Health_HealthCare_RL&hash=item4ad379c560
> 
> is it safe to buy from here ?


yeah, got mine from there I think


----------



## Sega

@DiggyV

Would this be ok to run two weeks on then switch to two weeks on Dhacks Ultra burn or would you run one or the other 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.

My Plan was this twice a day for 2 weeks 6:00 Am before training then another dose at 12:30 pm

1 x Chest-Eze

1 x 200mg Caffine tab

1 x aspirin 75mg

Then after the first 2 weeks switch to

Dhacks Ultra burn 1 tab pre training.


----------



## AlexHealy

@DiggyV

Just for my peace of mind, is this all correct?










1 x chesteze

3 x pro plus

1 x aspirin

If I take them on waking tomorrow?


----------



## Dan94

All good to go mate! Same as the ones I used


----------



## AlexHealy

Dan94 said:


> All good to go mate! Same as the ones I used


Cheers mate.


----------



## Dan94

AlexHealy said:


> Cheers mate.


Np :thumbup1:


----------



## saxondale

AlexHealy said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> Just for my peace of mind, is this all correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 x chesteze
> 
> 3 x pro plus
> 
> 1 x aspirin
> 
> If I take them on waking tomorrow?


Remember to bite the asprin first - breakfast the coating


----------



## AlexHealy

saxondale said:


> Remember to bite the asprin first - breakfast the coating


Thanks.

I'm not a fan of tablets so I always bite them but I'll make sure to with the aspirin.


----------



## dudeasca

hello...what you mean by bite the aspirin ?? chew it like a gum ?! or can i drink it normaly like the rest of tablets

tnks



saxondale said:


> Remember to bite the asprin first - breakfast the coating


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> hello...what you mean by bite the aspirin ?? chew it like a gum ?! or can i drink it normaly like the rest of tablets
> 
> tnks


The coating is gastro resistant - slowly releases the drug, we want it in one hit so bite it first


----------



## SickCurrent

*Real* pure eph hcl is like powdered unicorn horn in terms of availability nowadays because of meth production.

*DMAA* is the new improved eph imho. Facking beautiful stim ime.


----------



## dudeasca

interesting . tnks !

i m still on "natural" loosing weight...haven t decided yet what to use , eca or clen

i want to get as lean as posible not taking anything...and then use something like this( eca or clen )



saxondale said:


> The coating is gastro resistant - slowly releases the drug, we want it in one hit so bite it first


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> interesting . tnks !
> 
> i m still on "natural" loosing weight...haven t decided yet what to use , eca or clen
> 
> i want to get as lean as posible not taking anything...and then use something like this( eca or clen )


Go with ECA first mate, clens a totally different beast.


----------



## dudeasca

tnks for tip buddy !

will order soon from ebay the chesteze and buy the rest locally and will start i think in like 2, 3 weeks .

will post progress 



saxondale said:


> Go with ECA first mate, clens a totally different beast.


----------



## AlexHealy

Started my ECA stack yesterday, starting weight is 191.6lbs (87.1kg).


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> tnks for tip buddy !
> 
> will order soon from ebay the chesteze and buy the rest locally and will start i think in like 2, 3 weeks .
> 
> will post progress


Good luck, start a journal in the journal section, we'll all tease you for weeks, drive you on


----------



## dan23

hi 1st post.....

i'm 190lbs, about 25-28bf male

started eca on Saturday. along with a clean calorie deficit and plenty of steady state cardio and a high rep PPL 3 day split.

30-200-75 sticking to once per day at the moment.

how should I cycle it? 5 days on weekends off?

or 7 days a week for 3-4 weeks then take a week off?


----------



## rfclee

dan23 said:


> hi 1st post.....
> 
> i'm 190lbs, about 25-28bf male
> 
> started eca on Saturday. along with a clean calorie deficit and plenty of steady state cardio and a high rep PPL 3 day split.
> 
> 30-200-75 sticking to once per day at the moment.
> 
> how should I cycle it? 5 days on weekends off?
> 
> or 7 days a week for 3-4 weeks then take a week off?


2 weeks on 2 weeks off


----------



## DiggyV

Hey guys, sorry for being absent, one or two medical things - but am OK. :lol:

If there is anything outstanding reply to this please, although looks like @saxondale and @Dan94 have been filling in for me brilliantly. :thumb:


----------



## saxondale

DiggyV said:


> Hey guys, sorry for being absent, one or two medical things - but am OK. :lol:
> 
> If there is anything outstanding reply to this please, although looks like @saxondale and @Dan94 have been filling in for me brilliantly. :thumb:


No worries, hope your not suffering side effects of ECA!


----------



## AlexHealy

Need some advice please..

I started my stack on Saturday and noticed a lack of appetite immediately, Saturday and Sunday I struggled to eat my lunch.

Since then my appetite hasn't been surprised, is this normal?

I was surprised that it kicked in so quick but also expected it do stay that way.


----------



## saxondale

Physcosamatic?

You were expecting it so it happened maybe?

TBH ive never really noticed a lack of appetite, keep at it though.


----------



## AlexHealy

saxondale said:


> Physcosamatic?
> 
> You were expecting it so it happened maybe?
> 
> TBH ive never really noticed a lack of appetite, keep at it though.


Possibly.

I'm on day five now, got enough to see me through my two weeks so I'm going to keep on it and see how it goes.


----------



## dan23

AlexHealy said:


> Need some advice please..
> 
> I started my stack on Saturday and noticed a lack of appetite immediately, Saturday and Sunday I struggled to eat my lunch.
> 
> Since then my appetite hasn't been surprised, is this normal?
> 
> I was surprised that it kicked in so quick but also expected it do stay that way.


I started the same day as you dude.

I don't eat the same at weekends anyway, but did notice on Monday that my appetite was very supressed. it felt similar to when your so nervous/anxious that you cant eat.

day by day I am getting my appetite back now.

As mentioned above it could be all in our heads because it was a side effect that I had read about before starting with it.


----------



## dudeasca

ok i just order it from ebay , chesteze

now i ll have to go to my local shops to buy caffeine and aspirin

and in like 1 week after chesteze arrives .i will start...will post an review

tnks


----------



## AlexHealy

dan23 said:


> I started the same day as you dude.
> 
> I don't eat the same at weekends anyway, but did notice on Monday that my appetite was very supressed. it felt similar to when your so nervous/anxious that you cant eat.
> 
> day by day I am getting my appetite back now.
> 
> As mentioned above it could be all in our heads because it was a side effect that I had read about before starting with it.


Yeah I've had that feeling, the sort of feeling from being nervous/anxious that you feel slightly sick?

I'm hoping it works as a suppressant as that is the main thing I am looking for.

How are you finding it so far?

I was 191 pounds on Saturday and I am currently 188 pounds - I normally lose a few pounds of water weight when I eat clean and in a deficit anyway.


----------



## dan23

AlexHealy said:


> Yeah I've had that feeling, the sort of feeling from being nervous/anxious that you feel slightly sick?
> 
> I'm hoping it works as a suppressant as that is the main thing I am looking for.
> 
> How are you finding it so far?
> 
> I was 191 pounds on Saturday and I am currently 188 pounds - I normally lose a few pounds of water weight when I eat clean and in a deficit anyway.


its going fine so far, feeling more alert in the morning, but that could be down to the caffine.

i'm currently taking 30-200-75 1st thing in the morning but from next week I will add an extra dose in at lunch time, then take 2 week off.

I'm down from 192 to 186 lbs, but that is over 16days, so cant say how much of that is down to diet and exercise, although I have started with creatine again and that normally adds 3-4 lbs of water weight.


----------



## Aliking10

I've run ECA before, and had to stop as it gave me crippling headaches.

Would there be any benefit to running it two days on, two days off?


----------



## kreig

Aliking10 said:


> I've run ECA before, and had to stop as it gave me crippling headaches.
> 
> Would there be any benefit to running it two days on, two days off?


How much water were you drinking? That makes a massive difference when you're using stuff like this.


----------



## Aliking10

kreig said:


> How much water were you drinking? That makes a massive difference when you're using stuff like this.


I was taking orals at the same time, so must have been 6 litres, probably more.


----------



## AlexHealy

Aliking10 said:


> I've run ECA before, and had to stop as it gave me crippling headaches.
> 
> Would there be any benefit to running it two days on, two days off?


I normally get headaches a lot and I've found since taking ECA that I've only had a headache once, so I've had less than normal.

Could be that ECA doesn't agree with you but could be that it doesn't mix with your orals?


----------



## AlexHealy

Finishing my first two week cycle today, will weigh tomorrow morning to see how I've got on.

Haven't had any bad sides though thankfully.


----------



## dan23

AlexHealy said:


> Finishing my first two week cycle today, will weigh tomorrow morning to see how I've got on.
> 
> Haven't had any bad sides though thankfully.


did you stick to one dose per day? I did in the end.

last day for me tomorrow!


----------



## AlexHealy

dan23 said:


> did you stick to one dose per day? I did in the end.
> 
> last day for me tomorrow!


Yes mate, how have you found it?

Starting weight - 13 stone 9.6 pounds

Current weight - 13 stone 2.6 pounds

Pretty happy with half a stone as I normally notice a good change when I clean my diet up, and I'm not too worried about losing more than a few pounds as my plan is to strip body fat and start from scratch, blank canvas if you like.


----------



## dan23

AlexHealy said:


> Yes mate, how have you found it?
> 
> Starting weight - 13 stone 9.6 pounds
> 
> Current weight - 13 stone 2.6 pounds
> 
> Pretty happy with half a stone as I normally notice a good change when I clean my diet up, and I'm not too worried about losing more than a few pounds as my plan is to strip body fat and start from scratch, blank canvas if you like.


Due to weigh myself on Monday so will update then, not sure it's made much difference on top of diet and exercise but I will stick with it in 2 week stints for a few months.

Think I will go to 2 doses per day next time.


----------



## dudeasca

ok i just got the chest-eze from ebay . 45 tablets

and the rest i got from local shop

now the problem is that i found only tables of 200mg caffeine

and the aspirin tablets is 400 mg

is there a problem if i take the whole cafeein tablet and just half tablet of aspirin.. .?!

i will take my first dosage in like 4 hours ....before training ...and tomorow i will take 2 dosage....in the morning and before workout

tnks


----------



## dudeasca

so i just used as i said above ...right before workout

le: seems my post wasn`t approved ....

i just got the chest eze from ebay .co.uk . and bought aspiring (400mg i think ) and 200 mg tablets caffeine from an local shop

i took before workout this combo 1 chesteze +200 mg coffein and i think 200 mg aspirin ( don t know for sure )( half of tablet )

and all i can say....WOW ....it gave me the buzz ...insane workout + focus ....i monitorized my heart right after workout at cardio and it was the same as i was not taking eca stack... 150 160 pulse

very nice ....i have now 87 kg ...will let you know in 2 weeks when i will pause for another 2 the exact kg i managed to burn

btw

what can i use in the 2 weeks pause of ECA ?1

TNKS a lot guys


----------



## Dan94

you want a baby aspirin, 75mg


----------



## dudeasca

got it ! thanks

what should i use in the 2weeks off ? should i stick to my basic green tea in the morning and before workout ?! or can i use other burning supplements !?


----------



## dudeasca

5 days on eca stack....all i can say ...WOW .....my body is changing every minute ! of course the clean diet means a lot....but still....it rocks !

i will post before and after pics....after i finish the 2 weeks on .....4 weeks clean burning +2 weeks eca stack....

i m in the best shape of my life ...till i made 17 years i was an obbese kid...had 125 kg ...started doing cardio ...9 months later 76 kg ( was skinny fat , yuck ) .....after i started gym workouts and never stoped .

to bad i eat lots of crap and managed to put muscle +fat ....now i m motivated and ready to go to the next level ( abs , veins etc )

will post a pic in like 1.5 week . 2007 february - 1 august 2014 -1 sept 2014

tnks again all for the info provided

still looking to know what to use in the 2 week off eca ..

tnks


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> 5 days on eca stack....all i can say ...WOW .....my body is changing every minute ! of course the clean diet means a lot....but still....it rocks !
> 
> i will post before and after pics....after i finish the 2 weeks on .....4 weeks clean burning +2 weeks eca stack....
> 
> i m in the best shape of my life ...till i made 17 years i was an obbese kid...had 125 kg ...started doing cardio ...9 months later 76 kg ( was skinny fat , yuck ) .....after i started gym workouts and never stoped .
> 
> to bad i eat lots of crap and managed to put muscle +fat ....now i m motivated and ready to go to the next level ( abs , veins etc )
> 
> will post a pic in like 1.5 week . 2007 february - 1 august 2014 -1 sept 2014
> 
> tnks again all for the info provided
> 
> still looking to know what to use in the 2 week off eca ..
> 
> tnks


Use nothing, give your body time to recover is the idea.


----------



## Dan94

yeah use ECA for 2 weeks, then just completely 'natural' and no stims for 2 weeks.. then start ECA again for 2 weeks if you wish

lets the receptors recover


----------



## dudeasca

great ! will use only the green gunpoweder tea  when i wake up and before training ! hope that won t affect any receptors from recovering

tnks


----------



## dudeasca

couldn`t rezist and i made the before and after

will psot again after i finish the 2 weeks of eca

i know that i m very flexed in the last 2 photos  and the light is quite good

the last 2 photos were made at night 23:00 pm ( i train at 5 pm ) so i don t think the pump would rezist 6 hours 

next time i ll take photos in the morning right after i wake up.....very nice condition


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> couldn`t rezist and i made the before and after
> 
> will psot again after i finish the 2 weeks of eca
> 
> i know that i m very flexed in the last 2 photos
> 
> the last 2 photos were made at night 23:00 pm ( i train at 5 pm ) so i don t think the pump would rezist 6 hours
> 
> next time i ll take photos in the morning right after i wake up.....very nice condition


respect where its due mate, well done.


----------



## dudeasca

thanks mate ! i apreciate ! now i just don t have to give up and eat all from the fridge like i did in all this years !, only failure diets....hope this time i will get to next level allthough summer is over ..planing to get as ripped as possbile , and after get big as lean as possbile....and eat bigger protein

btw on eca i lost the appetite ! nice !



saxondale said:


> respect where its due mate, well done.


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> thanks mate ! i apreciate ! now i just don t have to give up and eat all from the fridge like i did in all this years !, only failure diets....hope this time i will get to next level allthough summer is over ..planing to get as ripped as possbile , and after get big as lean as possbile....and eat bigger protein
> 
> btw on eca i lost the appetite ! nice !


realised i said earlier I hadnt noticed a change in appetite, thats not true, hardly eat anything on ECA.


----------



## dudeasca

here is my diet routine

wake up usualy at 9:30 pm : drink eca stack .after 10 min i eat an apple

10:30 or 11 mlet just the white . from 8 eggs

12:30 - 1 : 175 grams chicken brest +vegetable marrow fried on teflon ( hope i translate it correct ) like 75 grams

15:00 before workout : 175 grams chicken brest +vegetable marrow fried on teflon 75 grams + 1 slice of diet breat fried ( it s super slim and crunchy...)

16:30 apple

16:50 eca stack

17:00 workout + 30 min cardio

18:45 ~~~~ protein shake ~whey gold ..1.5 scoops with water

19:30 ~~175 grams chicken brest + 50 brown rice

22:00 like 100 grams chicken brest + some fats usually medium fat cheeze or almette

1:30 am sleep

only on thursday on legs day i add 2 slices of crunchu bread before workout instead of 1

and add75 grams brown rice after workout instead of 50

i usually cheat sunday allday full carbs , choclate junk food etc ! but that didn`t work out good so i have like 2 or 3 weeks clean...no cheat meal ! so this is the best optiion

hope i will rezist to 8 weeks without cheating....and when i need to cheat in the 8 week...to eat clean carbs ...like pasta . watermelon or riceee with lots of vegetables

i train monday -friday

1.chest +abs +cardio 30 min max 250 calories

2. shoulders +cardio 30 min max 250 calories

3. abs + triceps biceps

4. legs + cardio 30 min max 250 calories

5.back + cardio 30min max 250 calories

on saturday i would just go to cardio 60 min like 500 calories , but that happens once in 2 weeks . 3

le : yup . about the appetite . i force my self to eat ,cause i need too...

if i don`t eat , i won t have energy and loose a lot of muscles


----------



## dudeasca

i feel dizzy for like 2 3 days ...headaches...but i believe it all a part from the eca effect right ?!

should i worry about it ?!

if i raise up fast from the bed , i feel like my head is gonna explode


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> i feel dizzy for like 2 3 days ...headaches...but i believe it all a part from the eca effect right ?!
> 
> should i worry about it ?!
> 
> if i raise up fast from the bed , i feel like my head is gonna explode


Yeah.


----------



## dudeasca

saxondale said:


> Yeah.


Tnks for fast answer mate

But plz tell me for wich question is the answer ?!


----------



## saxondale

dudeasca said:


> Tnks for fast answer mate
> 
> But plz tell me for wich question is the answer ?!


All of them lol, they're normal side effects wouldnt worry unless they carry on for a week or so.

I am not a doctor


----------



## dudeasca

saxondale said:


> All of them lol, they're normal side effects.


That s what i wanted to hear

"Normal side effects " 

Tnks mate


----------



## umairarif

Hi

I have been reading and willing to do the eca stak to loose some fat. But on another forum I read that the chest eze from boots have replaced ephedrine with some other substance. this was done in end of 2013. Is there any truth is this? On the other hand if I look at chest eze on boots web site it clearly says that it contains 18 g of ephedrine in it.


----------



## dudeasca

I m curently on eca stack with chest eze and they defenetly have ephe ..bought them from ebay.co.uk


----------



## umairarif

cheers


----------



## umairarif

can any one plz tell how many grams of eph should be consumed daily on ECA stack?


----------



## Dan94

umairarif said:


> Hi
> 
> I have been reading and willing to do the eca stak to loose some fat. But on another forum I read that the chest eze from boots have replaced ephedrine with some other substance. this was done in end of 2013. Is there any truth is this? On the other hand if I look at chest eze on boots web site it clearly says that it contains 18 g of ephedrine in it.


If it says its Eph, then it'll be Eph. Chesteze is a different company to Boots, so they wouldn't be allowed to tamper with ingredients/doses I'd imagine.


----------



## Dan94

umairarif said:


> can any one plz tell how many grams of eph should be consumed daily on ECA stack?


Read the opening post again

*
"1 x Chest-Eze (18mg) - the 'E' part*

*
3 x pro-plus (150mg) - the 'C' part*

*
1 x junior aspirin (75 or 85mg) - the 'A' part"*


----------



## umairarif

is this once or twice a day?


----------



## Dan94

umairarif said:


> is this once or twice a day?


try one a day at first, then if you feel like it add 2 separate doses a day.


----------



## umairarif

cheers for this, i will b starting it over the week end and share my experience.


----------



## dudeasca

Almost 2 weeks eca

( 10 days )


----------



## umairarif

whats the difference in weight now?


----------



## dudeasca

Don t know for sure ! Will weight on sunday


----------



## umairarif

ok but u feel the difference in the mirror?


----------



## dudeasca

Of course ! I have to close my belt with like 3 holes more ! All my pants are going down , and i can see nice veins on foreamrs


----------



## umairarif

cant wait to start tomoro when i get my chest eze.


----------



## dudeasca

umairarif said:


> cant wait to start tomoro when i get my chest eze.


Trust me ! It rocks ! I m in the best shape of my life ! Never been so lean !

Good luck ! Post your progress too mate


----------



## umairarif

i will sure

good luck to u too


----------



## dudeasca

Is it just me , or am i peeing to much ?!

Like every hour , i m going to the toilet

I drink lots of water , but when i was not taking eca , i didn t go to toilet so much !

It s ok ?!


----------



## kreig

Stimulants dehydrate you so it's pretty normal to increase peeing



dudeasca said:


> Is it just me , or am i peeing to much ?!
> 
> Like every hour , i m going to the toilet
> 
> I drink lots of water , but when i was not taking eca , i didn t go to toilet so much !
> 
> It s ok ?!


----------



## dudeasca

Tnks ! Good thing i drinks lots of water too

As far as i know it s not good for your buddy to dehydrate , especially when taking something that stimulants to remove water


----------



## umairarif

ok 1st day on eca had lived through it but was s**t. felt like throwing up all day, resting heart rate 95-100, hands shaking. took 2nd dose about 4pm and was still awake at 3am. and was up at 6am . taking 1 chest exe+ 1x 200 g caf+ 1x75 asp. will do it 2 weeks on 2 off. hope its worth it.


----------



## dudeasca

You should take just 1 dose first couple of days ! Before workout so you body get used to it ! And after go for 2 doses of eca ! I did like this and felt good


----------



## ConstantCut

Anyone else finding that supermarket pharmacys are no longer stocking Chesteze? I tried two today......


----------



## dudeasca

Try ebay ! That s where i m getting them


----------



## ConstantCut

I have an order coming off ebay any day now, popped into Boots today to grab some Chesteze to sort me out fot a few days.

My homemade stack of Chesteze, 200mg Caffeine, and 75mg Aspirin tablets...


----------



## umairarif

i know diet is the first thing and eca or any fat burner gives little bit extra help so what you guys recon should be daily carb intake to get good results? or is it overall cals?


----------



## colarado red

ConstantCut said:


> Anyone else finding that supermarket pharmacys are no longer stocking Chesteze? I tried two today......


Try pharmacy 2 u might be breaking rules here might be classed as a source, please remove post if it is.


----------



## Pinky

AlexHealy said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm not a fan of tablets so I always bite them but I'll make sure to with the aspirin.


why you gotta bite them?


----------



## saxondale

Misspinky1983 said:


> why you gotta bite them?


Stomach resistant casing, you need to bite them so they get to work asap


----------



## Pinky

@DiggyV

One of UK muscles sponsors do a 30mg ephedrine tab is this the real deal or is it best to use the home made one?

Thanks


----------



## dan23

i'm due an eye test next week but will be during my 2 weeks on of ECA. Would it be a good idea to have a couple of days off the eca before I go in or will it not effect it? i don't want to appear "wired" and i guess you can tell a lot from a persons eyes?


----------



## Boshlop

dan23 said:


> i'm due an eye test next week but will be during my 2 weeks on of ECA. Would it be a good idea to have a couple of days off the eca before I go in or will it not effect it? i don't want to appear "wired" and i guess you can tell a lot from a persons eyes?


will make zero difference, you will probably be worse stopping in case you get a bit of a mild crash from been used to the energy high. and i find it dries my mouth not my eyes


----------



## dan23

Boshlop said:


> will make zero difference, you will probably be worse stopping in case you get a bit of a mild crash from been used to the energy high. and i find it dries my mouth not my eyes


cheers mate, i was thinking more about pupil size?


----------



## Boshlop

dan23 said:


> cheers mate, i was thinking more about pupil size?


if it was a eye test during a driving test or something similar i would say possibly even if just for ease of mind. but during a normal eye test they wont assume anything, just judge based on sight


----------



## KletoReese

Misspinky1983 said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> One of UK muscles sponsors do a 30mg ephedrine tab is this the real deal or is it best to use the home made one?
> 
> Thanks


Homemade? Which is?


----------



## T100

KletoReese said:


> Homemade? Which is?


1 chest eez tab, 1 75mg aspirin and 3 pro plus


----------



## KletoReese

T100 said:


> 1 chest eez tab, 1 75mg aspirin and 3 pro plus


Thanks! Going to purchase quite a few bottles later this evening!


----------



## barnz

My wife is wanting to run some help with losing weight and was thinking about either eca or dnp. This would be her first time and just wondered if you could recommend which would be better.

@DiggyV - havent seen you around for a while bud, you ok?


----------



## Boshlop

barnz said:


> My wife is wanting to run some help with losing weight and was thinking about either eca or dnp. This would be her first time and just wondered if you could recommend which would be better.
> 
> @DiggyV - havent seen you around for a while bud, you ok?


As a female use dnp as a last, LAST, option, not a things aren't quick enough drug.

Try her on black coffee first thing in the morning, see if she feels good on that or isnt too good on empty stomach caffine before throwing in the e/a. Once upon waking for a while to gauge tolerance but don't expect it to reduce taste cravings, might not be hungry but taste still tugs at you and takes willpower.

What is her diet like first though? Some women's kcals are just badly estimated


----------



## barnz

Boshlop said:


> As a female use dnp as a last, LAST, option, not a things aren't quick enough drug.
> 
> Try her on black coffee first thing in the morning, see if she feels good on that or isnt too good on empty stomach caffine before throwing in the e/a. Once upon waking for a while to gauge tolerance but don't expect it to reduce taste cravings, might not be hungry but taste still tugs at you and takes willpower.
> 
> What is her diet like first though? Some women's kcals are just badly estimated


Why is DNP a last, LAST option for women?


----------



## Dan94

Misspinky1983 said:


> Im going to give this a try in my 2 weeks off clen, are the chest-ez on ebay the ones I need the one n the green box, also is there a partic brand I need of the the caffeine and asprine or are any ok?
> 
> Thanks folks


chesteze off ebay are fine, you want 75mg aspirin so a baby aspirin, and you can get 200mg caffeine tabs from most supplement suppliers on here


----------



## Boshlop

barnz said:


> Why is DNP a last, LAST option for women?


The internal risks are higher for women. To be fair its a last step for anyone who has been in steady loss and knows their body imo. Its good, but with out a solid bit of exp cutting before the risks dont balance for me


----------



## barnz

Boshlop said:


> The internal risks are higher for women. To be fair its a last step for anyone who has been in steady loss and knows their body imo. Its good, but with out a solid bit of exp cutting before the risks dont balance for me


Weird, I know of plenty of women who run dnp, what should I tell them to look out for?


----------



## Pinky

Dan94 said:


> chesteze off ebay are fine, you want 75mg aspirin so a baby aspirin, and you can get 200mg caffeine tabs from most supplement suppliers on here


Heya

not sure if you'd know. Ive bought some hacks t5 but apparently it doesn't contain eph in. Would it be ok to add a chesteze with it or not. Its already got the caffeine and asprine in it and dmaa?

Thanks, kirst x


----------



## saxondale

Misspinky1983 said:


> Heya
> 
> not sure if you'd know. Ive bought some hacks t5 but apparently it doesn't contain eph in. Would it be ok to add a chesteze with it or not. Its already got the caffeine and asprine in it and dmaa?
> 
> Thanks, kirst x


I wouldnt.


----------



## saxondale

Misspinky1983 said:


> Okie dokie  just thought id ask  I
> 
> Ive been reading the ultra burn is better than the t5. Do you know what the diff is? They are both fat burners aint they? Xx


Ive never looked at proprietary blends, always assumed they were all hype.


----------



## DiggyV

Hey All, I'm back 

Please @ mention me if you have anything that the guys haven't covered in my absence


----------



## gaz90

@DiggyV hi mate, just got a quick question about ephedrine. all the chest meds ive looked contains Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride.

my cousin went up north (NI) and i asked him to pick up some chest eze from boots. he didnt go to boots but the pharmacy he wen in gave him Actifed 100ml bottle.

is this stuff any use?

*edit:* it contains 30mg of Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride per 5ml


----------



## saxondale

Misspinky1983 said:


> how come ive got a messge thing from you? Xx


was trying to PM you about something you said - emailed it instead, nothing bad.


----------



## saxondale

just now, bloody microsoft outlook


----------



## 39005

gaz90 said:


> @DiggyV hi mate, just got a quick question about ephedrine. all the chest meds ive looked contains Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride.
> 
> my cousin went up north (NI) and i asked him to pick up some chest eze from boots. he didnt go to boots but the pharmacy he wen in gave him Actifed 100ml bottle.
> 
> is this stuff any use?
> 
> *edit:* it contains 30mg of Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride per 5ml


pseudo ephedrine is more a decongestant and is not as effective a CNS stimulant as ephedrine HCL afaik. send your cousin back or tell him he owes you the money and can take them himself when he has a cold 

*when i say its more a decongestant it can still be used , but will be no where near as good as the ephedrine hydrochloride salt.


----------



## gaz90

aqualung said:


> pseudo ephedrine is more a decongestant and is not as effective a CNS stimulant as ephedrine HCL afaik. send your cousin back or tell him he owes you the money and can take them himself when he has a cold


sh*t. i knew it would be useless.

ah its only a few quid. still disappointed tho


----------



## Dan94

gaz90 said:


> sh*t. i knew it would be useless.
> 
> ah its only a few quid. still disappointed tho


can buy chesteze online in bulk mate, ebay your best bet


----------



## gaz90

Dan94 said:


> can buy chesteze online in bulk mate, ebay your best bet


oh right. ill check that out now. cheers


----------



## TheStarkFactor

Misspinky1983 said:


> Got some Kaizen eph from a UKM sponsor. 8mg per tab. So am i right in saying 2 of the 8mg tabs stacker with 200mg caffeine and 75mg asprine would create a ECA stack?
> 
> PS its not for me
> 
> Thanks in advance x x


I think it's meant to be around 150mg of caffeine, but someone with far more knowledge will confirm lol.

Are you able to say which sponsor you got the Kaizen eph from?

I've found ChestEze for £1.88 on a well known pharmacy site, but I can see that they already have 30mg of caffeine included, which is fine, but they also include 'Theophyline Ph Eur 100mg'.

Anyone know what this is and whether that affects the stack?


----------



## saxondale

its an asthma treatment so there to aid breathing maybe?

edit - broncodilator is the posh word


----------



## TheStarkFactor

saxondale said:


> its an asthma treatment so there to aid breathing maybe?
> 
> edit - broncodilator is the posh word


Ah, that makes sense, I'm assuming as everyone seems to be using it along with caffeine and aspirin that it doesn't cause any issues?


----------



## DiggyV

What you are looking for is a ration between the Eph, caff and Aspirin of 1:10:4. So using the home-brew stack you get something like this:

1 x ProPlus = 18mg Eph + 30mg Caff

3 x proplus = 150mg

1 x 75mg Aspirin

which gives a total of 18:180:75 = 1:10:4.2 (roughly)

Some places quote 1:10:10, but I have never seen any difference in the higher Aspirin ratio, and the additional gastric stress that the higher aspirin brings is not worth it.

Hope this helps.


----------



## DiggyV

Misspinky1983 said:


> @DiggyV Ive got some 8mg eph tabs from Century. Could i take 2 of them = 18mg of eph a 200mg caffeine tab and 1 mini aspirin?
> 
> Will this still be within the ratio?
> 
> thanks. Xx


Close enough. You will be at 16:200:75, which is 1:12.5:4.7, which is fine, it becomes less effective when the ratios are lower than 1:10:4.


----------



## saxondale

TheStarkFactor said:


> Ah, that makes sense, I'm assuming as everyone seems to be using it along with caffeine and aspirin that it doesn't cause any issues?


Daft as it sounds I ger pressure sores when on, thins my skin so much it just rips on my elbows.


----------



## DiggyV

Misspinky1983 said:


> @DiggyV i forgot to ask matey do i still take the home made stack first thing before my cardio at 5am then another lot around dinner time or is this different? Xx


yup, i don't take it any later than 4pm or i don't sleep. also remember, 2 weeks on the 2 weeks off.


----------



## DiggyV

Misspinky1983 said:


> On the 2 weeks off can you run clen or the thermo stack with clen in?
> 
> Is clen best on its own or with the thermo stack the one with t3 in.
> 
> X x


unfortunately not. Ephedrine will down regulate both the alpha and beta receptors in your cells and you need to give them time to recover. clen is a beta agonist and so will lose potency if run with eph. thermo-lipid stack suffers the same problem as eph, because it contains clem which hits the beta receptors and yohimbine which hits the alpha receptors, so will also need 2 on and 2 off. also you need to give your system a break from being stimulated constantly.

One way of running longer than 2 weeks is to use a pure beta agonist like clem and run either ketitofen or diphenhydramine hcl with it. there will either slow or stop the downregulation which means you can run for longer. ketitofen can only be got from your source, however diphenhydramine is in the version of Nytol you have to ask the pharmacist for, not the herbal crap you get on the shelf. the telco pharmacy own brand also has it, again need to ask the pharmacist. take the ket or dip hen at night though as will make you drowsy.

the other way is to cycle a pure alpha with a pure beta, so yohimbine with clem on alternate 2 week runs.

with both of these though give yourself a break after 4-6 weeks for at least 2 weeks.


----------



## DiggyV

Misspinky1983 said:


> @DiggyV Right ok. Sorry for all the questions, tell me to bog off if im doing your head in.
> 
> So am i right in saying eph n clen do the same things near enough that's why i cant fo 2 weeks of eph and 2 weeks of clen.
> 
> Ive got Clen on its own, Clen in the thermo stack, T5, ultra burn and the home made stack :whistling:
> 
> What prods from these would you recommend running for 2 weeks of (A) 2 weeks of ( B) then 2 weeks of nothing so things can go back to normal.
> 
> Thanks for your help and advise, much appreciated. Xx


Eph and Clen both hit the beta receptors, but clen is more effective than ECA. However people run ECA as it is easier to obtain 'legally'. The problem is that all of the products you have contain a beta agonist, you have no straight alpha agonists, so its difficult to run one after the other as they all hit the same receptors. After 2 weeks you will start noticing that the effectiveness decreases. The only way is to get hold of some 'own brand' Nytol from Tesco's pharmacy or Boots - dirt cheap.

The best in there is the Thermo Lipid Stack - Clen, Yohimbine, T3 and 7-Keto. If I were running something from your chemistry set I would run Thermo Lipid for 2 weeks then take 2 weeks off. If you are set on a 4 week cycle then I would run Clen for 2 weeks and then Ultraburn for 2 weeks and then take 2 weeks off. Run Nytol though for the clem cycle to keep the beta receptors working so the Ultraburn has the full effect.


----------



## DiggyV

Misspinky1983 said:


> Ok thank you
> 
> Run clen on its own along with the nytol or clen in the stack?
> 
> When is best to take the nytol? With the clen or a different time of day?
> 
> Is there anything that hits the alpha agonists or is Nytol the only thing available?
> 
> X x


Not the stack unfortunately as it contains an alpha agonist (yohimbine), just straight Clen. Take the Nytol at night as per previous message. There is currently nothing that will effectively up regulate Alpha receptors, Diphenhydramine and ketitofen only affect the beta receptors.


----------



## saxondale

chest-eze

currently £1.70 a pack in Tesco


----------



## venty

Hi,

Amazing thread, currently up to page 31 and has taken me 2 weeks so far!

About myself...

I only do cardio and thats all I want to really focus on. So reading a muscle forum seems weird and alien to me!

170cm tall

63kg.

Some fat around my stomach/chest, but the rest of fine.

I dont have high numbers of fast twich fibres. but lots and lots of slow ones!

This is something that I want to balance a little during the winter.

I dont know if anyone knows anything about endurance athletes, but power to weight is the key for me.

I am more interested in dropping weight/fat than adding any muscle mass.

I tried clen in the summer, 2 weeks on, 2 off, then another 2 on. I felt slight shakes like others describe and then in the second 2 weeks I really thought I noticed some fat loss.

I have recently been reading about ECA and that led me to this forum.

I was all set to start my first 2 week cycle.

I have two weeks off over xmas and was planning a cycle and the good thing I read about ECA is the added focus and push it gives you in your training. Added to the appitite supressent, I think this is the way to go for this training block.

I thought I had a 6 week plan sorted...

2 weeks Clen - Starting 5th Dec

2 weeks ECA - Starting 20th Dec

2 weeks Clen - starting 5th Jan

but I just read that I wont feel as much benefit from the ECA due to the receptors after the Clen.

I really think the focus should be on the 2 weeks of ECA, but now I am a little lost and where to start!!!

Apart from the Clen, I am relatively new, so any tips would be amazing.

I have chesteze/proplus/asprin and will be all set for the ECA.

Many thanks


----------



## saxondale

if your running forget the clen.


----------



## venty

saxondale said:


> if your running forget the clen.


cycling, but why?


----------



## saxondale

venty said:


> cycling, but why?


takes too much out of the body IMO.


----------



## DiggyV

venty said:


> Hi,
> 
> Amazing thread, currently up to page 31 and has taken me 2 weeks so far!
> 
> About myself...
> 
> I only do cardio and thats all I want to really focus on. So reading a muscle forum seems weird and alien to me!
> 
> 170cm tall
> 
> 63kg.
> 
> Some fat around my stomach/chest, but the rest of fine.
> 
> I dont have high numbers of fast twich fibres. but lots and lots of slow ones!
> 
> This is something that I want to balance a little during the winter.
> 
> I dont know if anyone knows anything about endurance athletes, but power to weight is the key for me.
> 
> I am more interested in dropping weight/fat than adding any muscle mass.
> 
> I tried clen in the summer, 2 weeks on, 2 off, then another 2 on. I felt slight shakes like others describe and then in the second 2 weeks I really thought I noticed some fat loss.
> 
> I have recently been reading about ECA and that led me to this forum.
> 
> I was all set to start my first 2 week cycle.
> 
> I have two weeks off over xmas and was planning a cycle and the good thing I read about ECA is the added focus and push it gives you in your training. Added to the appitite supressent, I think this is the way to go for this training block.
> 
> I thought I had a 6 week plan sorted...
> 
> 2 weeks Clen - Starting 5th Dec
> 
> 2 weeks ECA - Starting 20th Dec
> 
> 2 weeks Clen - starting 5th Jan
> 
> but I just read that I wont feel as much benefit from the ECA due to the receptors after the Clen.
> 
> I really think the focus should be on the 2 weeks of ECA, but now I am a little lost and where to start!!!
> 
> Apart from the Clen, I am relatively new, so any tips would be amazing.
> 
> I have chesteze/proplus/asprin and will be all set for the ECA.
> 
> Many thanks


First you can't ask for a source of Clen sorry - Ephedrine is a grey area as it is legally available but still a controlled product. Clen though is illegal, it is only used in ventilators for asthmatics, and not medically available as a tablet (well not i the UK anyway).

You can't run ECA after Clen as Ephedrine down regulates both the alpha and beta receptors in your cells, so you will get a lot less from it after Clen, and also your second clen cycle will be a lot lot less effective.

However ....

If you can get hold of either some Ketitofen (from your source) or some DiphenHydramine HCL - the active ingredient in sleep tablets you ask your pharmacist for (over here the brand name is Nytol - there are two type - crap ones you get off the shelf and the one containing DiPhen but you need to ask for that one). Taking this last thing at night will have a two fold effect - firstly will help you sleep, and secondly will stop your beta receptors down regulating.

As @saxondale says be really really careful running Clen if an athlete. If you compete in anyway and are subject to WADA controlled doping tests then both of these substances will show up and you will be in breach of WADA guidelines, as both Ephedrine and Clenbuterol are performance enhancers. You will need to hydrate massively to ensure you don't dehydrate if a long distance athlete. Seriously probably double what you would normally take on, if not more.

Notice you are a cyclist, clen has been used to increase performance on sprints, less so on long distance, although it will have an effect on performance, so be careful.

You must ensure you are getting enough electrolytes and maltodextrin in your drink to help counter the increased metabolic rate if you are using it when cycling.


----------



## venty

Sorry about that, I am new to all this.

How effective would the ECA be if I did the clen with Nytol (DiPehen version).

Just to clear that other part up. I am not going to face WADA testing, or any testing.

My goal for the clen is for the fat loss.

My goal for the ECA is primarily fat loss but then with the added focus on my training.

Its winter, so the training during the clen cycle is very limited. The most training will be during the xmas 2 weeks when on the ECA cycle.

By the sounds of the advice though, I should skip the clen cycle and then just do the ECA?

Thanks a lot


----------



## DiggyV

venty said:


> Sorry about that, I am new to all this.
> 
> How effective would the ECA be if I did the clen with Nytol (DiPehen version).
> 
> Just to clear that other part up. I am not going to face WADA testing, or any testing.
> 
> My goal for the clen is for the fat loss.
> 
> My goal for the ECA is primarily fat loss but then with the added focus on my training.
> 
> Its winter, so the training during the clen cycle is very limited. The most training will be during the xmas 2 weeks when on the ECA cycle.
> 
> By the sounds of the advice though, I should skip the clen cycle and then just do the ECA?
> 
> Thanks a lot


The ECA would be fine after Clen + Nytol, however you would need to run Nytol with the ECA as well so that the second Clen cycle is fully effective. If you are a long distance cyclist then you really shouldn't need the Clen for fat loss. The cycling should burn the fat, its just about making sure you have your nutrition correct. Calculate your calories in and out, if you need a hand with this just holler.

ECA will help with fat-loss, focus and appetite suppression. Same hydration rules apply though.


----------



## venty

DiggyV said:


> The ECA would be fine after Clen + Nytol, however you would need to run Nytol with the ECA as well so that the second Clen cycle is fully effective. If you are a long distance cyclist then you really shouldn't need the Clen for fat loss. The cycling should burn the fat, its just about making sure you have your nutrition correct. Calculate your calories in and out, if you need a hand with this just holler.
> 
> ECA will help with fat-loss, focus and appetite suppression. Same hydration rules apply though.


Really appreciate it, thanks a lot.

I think I will skip the clen for now then. Sounds a little too much for me to take on if I am honest.

Looking forward to seeing the effects of the ECA though.


----------



## venty

venty said:


> Really appreciate it, thanks a lot.
> 
> I think I will skip the clen for now then. Sounds a little too much for me to take on if I am honest.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the effects of the ECA though.


Sorry but I have (hopefully) one last question on ECA.

If I wanted to take it twice a day. But I only start training at 10am. What times would you recommend?

Thanks a lot


----------



## DiggyV

venty said:


> Sorry but I have (hopefully) one last question on ECA.
> 
> If I wanted to take it twice a day. But I only start training at 10am. What times would you recommend?
> 
> Thanks a lot


not later than 4pm :lol: So maybe 9am and 3pm would be good, but assess tolerance by running just once a day for 2-3 days. Some people (like me) are very slim sensitive and it can be a nightmare...


----------



## Beefman147

Started back on ECA today to help in the latter stages of my diet......well they are ECA extreme tabs so not 100% sure if the dosing is accurate but I have used them in the past and seem to have done the job just fine.

Supposedly 130mg caffeine, 30mg eph and 30mg aspirin.

Looking forward to seeing some results as I am currently as lean as I have ever been and thats without having used ECA and I find I always drop a lot of water weight as soon as I get on the stack. Will post a few pics soon.


----------



## DiggyV

Beefman147 said:


> Started back on ECA today to help in the latter stages of my diet......well they are ECA extreme tabs so not 100% sure if the dosing is accurate but I have used them in the past and seem to have done the job just fine.
> 
> Supposedly 130mg caffeine, 30mg eph and 30mg aspirin.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing some results as I am currently as lean as I have ever been and thats without having used ECA and I find I always drop a lot of water weight as soon as I get on the stack. Will post a few pics soon.


Dose is a little bit off for you to get max hit from it. Ideally 1:10:4 E:C:A so with yours ideally they should be 30 Eph, 300 Caff and 120mg Aspirin. 30mg Eph will be a big hit, or at least should be. 

Good Luck :thumb:


----------



## teenphysique

Chest Eze 1 tab 18.1mg of eph combined with my preworkout condense 1 serving is 200mg caffeine would that be okay or would i get stimmed out


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> Chest Eze 1 tab 18.1mg of eph combined with my preworkout condense 1 serving is 200mg caffeine would that be okay or would i get stimmed out


would be fine, but add the aspirin too, you are missing a trick by excluding it.


----------



## teenphysique

DiggyV said:


> would be fine, but add the aspirin too, you are missing a trick by excluding it.


i did 1 chest eze 1 scoop of condense ,

i under stand the synergy of the ECA but why am i missing a trick mate ?


----------



## TBWFC

A stands for aspirin. Using all 3 compounds together has given better results than just ephedrine and caffeine.


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> i did 1 chest eze 1 scoop of condense ,
> 
> i under stand the synergy of the ECA but why am i missing a trick mate ?


Because it appears you are missing out the aspirin.... You don't state that you are taking it.


----------



## teenphysique

DiggyV said:


> Because it appears you are missing out the aspirin.... You don't state that you are taking it.


no im not taking it but i thought you meant in terms of giving the other two compounds a boost other than it being a vaso diolater abd stops the vaso constriction of ephedrine


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> no im not taking it but i thought you meant in terms of giving the other two compounds a boost other than it being a vaso diolater abd stops the vaso constriction of ephedrine


the aspirin does give the other two a boost. The three together are kinda like 1+1+1=5

you will get a better hit and longer duration from taking the three together. EC alone is kinda wasting money IME.


----------



## teenphysique

DiggyV said:


> the aspirin does give the other two a boost. The three together are kinda like 1+1+1=5
> 
> you will get a better hit and longer duration from taking the three together. EC alone is kinda wasting money IME.


ah right ,im not to sure how to get aspirin is it over the counter or on the shelf at boots


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> ah right ,im not to sure how to get aspirin is it over the counter or on the shelf at boots


off the shelf at Tesco 

look fr 75mp - they will say gastro resistant on them but just give it a crunch before swallowing. otherwise they wont get absorbed quickly enough to have an impact.

Also 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off the Eph ok?


----------



## teenphysique

DiggyV said:


> off the shelf at Tesco
> 
> look fr 75mp - they will say gastro resistant on them but just give it a crunch before swallowing. otherwise they wont get absorbed quickly enough to have an impact.
> 
> Also 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off the Eph ok?


i live near a boots mate is it called FR 75mp or is it called gastro resistant and cheers mate yeah i know 2 weeks off buddy cheers


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> i live near a boots mate is it called FR 75mp or is it called gastro resistant and cheers mate yeah i know 2 weeks off buddy cheers


gastro resistant.


----------



## ywph

Fairly strong bump but i need some info on eca DiggyV is it possible to msg me ??


----------



## TBWFC

DiggyV said:


> *Dosing times for ECA*
> 
> I have been carrying out very non-scientific 'research' as to the dosing of ECA and the effects on sleep, based on dosing times and also number of doses. This has been done with Malice, so your effects and experiences may vary.
> 
> When on an ECA cycle my first dose is always on waking at 5:45am (with or without an alarm). During the week this is prior to working out @ Muscleworks Bethnal Green at 7am. Then normally I will take a second dose at around 6pm - if on a big fat loss push this is about 1.5 - 2 hours prior to a pure aerobics session on the bike and treadmill.
> 
> This gives me maximum push at the gym and great fas loss, but allows me to get to sleep at about 00:30 - giving me my normal 5 hours - can't seem to sleep more than this with or without ECA - and the amount gets less the more I train. However do sleep very, very deeply.
> 
> When running 2 doses a day I would recommend that the last does is a MINIMUM of 6 hours before you want to go to sleep.
> 
> Additionally I tried adding in a third dose at mid-day, however taking three doses in a day seemed to have a cumulative effect and I couldn't get to sleep until about 3 am. I repeated this a number of times, at different times and intervals. It would seem that if taking more than the normally recommended 2 doses per day then you will need to leave 8-9 hours before you are going to get to sleep - so for those of you that need the full 8 hours then 2 doses is probably all you are going to manage in a day, without potentially increasing the risks, and not without getting seriously p155ed off when you can't sleep.
> 
> The three doses route may be useful if you are off out on the town for a long night, however if you are a recreational drug user - particularly anything amphetamine based (speed, Es - MDMA etc), ECA will multiply the effects for you - so be VERY VERY careful.


Hey Diggy or anyone else here with good knowledge on ECA, I was wondering what's the best time to take ECA. Before or after food.

I wake up at 7:30 then eat at 8/10/12/3/5:30/9 I gym at 6. I was thinking take it just before breakfast at 8 and just before dinner at 5? but was not sure if you are meant to take before or after food, or even on an empty stomach. Any help would be great.


----------



## saxondale

j0rd4n500 said:


> Hey Diggy or anyone else here with good knowledge on ECA, I was wondering what's the best time to take ECA. Before or after food.
> 
> I wake up at 7:30 then eat at 8/10/12/3/5:30/9 I gym at 6. I was thinking take it just before breakfast at 8 and just before dinner at 5? but was not sure if you are meant to take before or after food, or even on an empty stomach. Any help would be great.


1st thing in the morning, big glass of water too, when your more tolerant second dose late afternoon


----------



## MrTwisted

j0rd4n500 said:


> Hey Diggy or anyone else here with good knowledge on ECA, I was wondering what's the best time to take ECA. Before or after food.
> 
> I wake up at 7:30 then eat at 8/10/12/3/5:30/9 I gym at 6. I was thinking take it just before breakfast at 8 and just before dinner at 5? but was not sure if you are meant to take before or after food, or even on an empty stomach. Any help would be great.


As said above take 1st thing and then take in the afternoon. If I take it too late I really struggle to sleep so 2pm is my cut off point.


----------



## DiggyV

As the guys have said really. I can make it to 4pm for my last dose, but really be careful taking it too later as you really wont sleep...


----------



## TBWFC

Cheers guys I was more on about around food, should I take it on empty stomache, before food or after food? Sorry for not making this soo clear.


----------



## DiggyV

j0rd4n500 said:


> Cheers guys I was more on about around food, should I take it on empty stomache, before food or after food? Sorry for not making this soo clear.


I always take on empty stomach - but then I train fasted in eh mornings anyway. So mid way between 2 meals for you.


----------



## saxondale

before any food/breakfast - yes.


----------



## Rich_

Hi, does anyone have any experience with ast research t30 ECA stack? Is it legit? Cheers


----------



## DiggyV

Rich_ said:


> Hi, does anyone have any experience with ast research t30 ECA stack? Is it legit? Cheers


Read the original post in this thread buddy, it highlights the problem with most pre-built ECA stacks. Also it goes over dosing protocols.. Most prebuilt ECA stacks, if you can get them over the counter aren't ECA . If it's from your source then it's still not guaranteed. To be what it says. The only way really to be sure is to build your own. You may well get a lift from the one you mention, but unless you know what the real deal. Is like then you won't know whether it is what it says.


----------



## teenphysique

can you add a nootropic to the ECA stack like phenylpiracetam


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> can you add a nootropic to the ECA stack like phenylpiracetam


No reason why not the two will act independently as far as I am aware.


----------



## teenphysique

DiggyV said:


> No reason why not the two will act independently as far as I am aware.


try it mate i got dead focused on PP and really awake on ECA i thought i had a great stim effect but lacked a focus from a noo tropic it would probably be pretty insane


----------



## Kendal07

I did 2 weeks on an home made ECA stack , I did not do any exercise and lost 3 kg, should I incorporate the cardio for the second part of the cycle? Or is 3 kg weight loss good enough?


----------



## DiggyV

Kendal07 said:


> I did 2 weeks on an home made ECA stack , I did not do any exercise and lost 3 kg, should I incorporate the cardio for the second part of the cycle? Or is 3 kg weight loss good enough?


You should do some light cardiovascular, even if the weight loss doesn't change massively. It has a whole host of benefits, even if just going for a quick walk for a mile or two.

3kg is good, just over 3lb a week, better than you should attempt with diet alone. :thumb:


----------



## Faktalay

Thanks mate for your advice , I'll do that in the coming cycle


----------



## JonnyBoy81

@DiggyV

quick question buddy, i have just started eca yesterday (homemade, recommended dose) and i am eating at maintenance cals, carbs each meal.

do i need to be in a cal deficit for this to properly work? do carbs make any difference to this?

i do weights 3 x per week and some added cardio usually interval training on the rowing machine.

should i swap out the interval training for some LISS or is the interval training ok to keep in?

the stuff is great really feel a kick off it and probably the best pre workout supp ive had. just concerned about pushing too hard whilst on it.

sorry if this has been covered, just so much info in this thread!


----------



## teenphysique

JonnyBoy81 said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> quick question buddy, i have just started eca yesterday (homemade, recommended dose) and i am eating at maintenance cals, carbs each meal.
> 
> do i need to be in a cal deficit for this to properly work? do carbs make any difference to this?
> 
> i do weights 3 x per week and some added cardio usually interval training on the rowing machine.
> 
> should i swap out the interval training for some LISS or is the interval training ok to keep in?
> 
> the stuff is great really feel a kick off it and probably the best pre workout supp ive had. just concerned about pushing too hard whilst on it.
> 
> sorry if this has been covered, just so much info in this thread!


results will be better at a 200kcal defficit mate


----------



## DiggyV

JonnyBoy81 said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> quick question buddy, i have just started eca yesterday (homemade, recommended dose) and i am eating at maintenance cals, carbs each meal.
> 
> do i need to be in a cal deficit for this to properly work? do carbs make any difference to this?
> 
> i do weights 3 x per week and some added cardio usually interval training on the rowing machine.
> 
> should i swap out the interval training for some LISS or is the interval training ok to keep in?
> 
> the stuff is great really feel a kick off it and probably the best pre workout supp ive had. just concerned about pushing too hard whilst on it.
> 
> sorry if this has been covered, just so much info in this thread!


Ideally yes being in deficit will mean more weight loss. Should be easier on ECA as it suppresses appetite a little. I would run 500 under maintenance, as this will give you an additional 1lb loss a week without too much struggle.

I am a fan of both HIIT and LISS, however during a cycle of any sim I tend to run LISS as your heart has enough on its plate with the sim 

Cycle 2 weeks on and 2 off, as it loses effectiveness with prolonged use.


----------



## JonnyBoy81

DiggyV said:


> Ideally yes being in deficit will mean more weight loss. Should be easier on ECA as it suppresses appetite a little. I would run 500 under maintenance, as this will give you an additional 1lb loss a week without too much struggle.
> 
> I am a fan of both HIIT and LISS, however during a cycle of any sim I tend to run LISS as your heart has enough on its plate with the sim
> 
> Cycle 2 weeks on and 2 off, as it loses effectiveness with prolonged use.


thanks mate!


----------



## Jordan08

@DiggyV, Need your advice on ECA. Though, you have summarized quite well but it doesn't answer few questions that i have as per my workout schedule. I do cardio from 6:15 AM to 7:15 AM. Can i take ECA fifteen minutes before starting my cardio workout?

second, I do weights in the evening, start around 7 and ends at 8. When should i take ECA for evening workout?


----------



## teenphysique

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @DiggyV, Need your advice on ECA. Though, you have summarized quite well but it doesn't answer few questions that i have as per my workout schedule. I do cardio from 6:15 AM to 7:15 AM. Can i take ECA fifteen minutes before starting my cardio workout?
> 
> second, I do weights in the evening, start around 7 and ends at 8. When should i take ECA for evening workout?


ill let diggy comment but ny advise is yes take it before fasted cardio in the morning

at night you will not sleep mate ephedrine and caffiene together has a 3 -4 hour effect on me as caffiene alone dies off at 2hours


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> ill let diggy comment but ny advise is yes take it before fasted cardio in the morning
> 
> at night you will not sleep mate ephedrine and caffiene together has a 3 -4 hour effect on me as caffiene alone dies off at 2hours


^^^^^^^ this

Don't take it after about 4pm or you won't sleep. Take it about 30 mins before cardiovascular.


----------



## DiggyV

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @DiggyV, Need your advice on ECA. Though, you have summarized quite well but it doesn't answer few questions that i have as per my workout schedule. I do cardio from 6:15 AM to 7:15 AM. Can i take ECA fifteen minutes before starting my cardio workout?
> 
> second, I do weights in the evening, start around 7 and ends at 8. When should i take ECA for evening workout?


 see above


----------



## jackedjackass

Stay away from ECA, especially the E part.

Long term sides are not worth it.

If you can't diet without it, you are too soft.

I seriously doubt the 20% better fatburning claim.


----------



## DiggyV

jackedjackass said:


> Stay away from ECA, especially the E part.
> 
> Long term sides are not worth it.
> 
> If you can't diet without it, you are too soft.
> 
> I seriously doubt the 20% better fatburning claim.


Links to long term sides please, from intermittent use. Abused, like any drug and there are issues, but not like this.

And as far as too soft, it has nothing to do with it, we're not all superman like you seem to think you are, and it is used by bodybuilders upto the very highest levels.

Also no one claimed 20‰ extra, it will give you maybe a 5‰ metabolic lift.

If you're not going to contribute positively to this thread don't bother.


----------



## jackedjackass

The 20% claim is now gone.

5% i agree with.

Long term, the combination of steroids and efedrine will be bad news for the prostate.


----------



## DiggyV

jackedjackass said:


> The 20% claim is now gone.
> 
> 5% i agree with.
> 
> Long term, the combination of steroids and efedrine will be bad news for the prostate.


There was no 20‰ claim made by me, never was. If it was someone else then they are wrong.

There is no mention of long term use of ephedrine anywhere in this thread, nor the original post. This is all about short term use for fat loss, or to help with a plateau. So once again, I request links to the research that shows this. I have access to medical databases that I doubt you do ad they are not public, and I don't seem to be able to find them.

The long term use of AAS is a well known issue for prostate, in fact having mid level average amounts of test is an issue for prostate as those of us on TRT know as we are checked regularly.


----------



## jackedjackass

DiggyV said:


> There was no 20‰ claim made by me, never was. If it was someone else then they are wrong.
> 
> There is no mention of long term use of ephedrine anywhere in this thread, nor the original post. This is all about short term use for fat loss, or to help with a plateau. So once again, I request links to the research that shows this. I have access to medical databases that I doubt you do ad they are not public, and I don't seem to be able to find them.
> 
> The long term use of AAS is a well known issue for prostate, in fact having mid level average amounts of test is an issue for prostate as those of us on TRT know as we are checked regularly.


I never said you made the 20% claim, i just made a summary of all posts i've read.

You do not believe efedrine can cause prostate problems?(Yes, even short term, sometimes people get away with it for months, next time after 2 weeks they cannot **** anymore).

You are asking for scientific studies?

Would a patient information leaflet count?

It states people with prostate problems should stay away from it.

http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/PIL.28795.latest.pdf

Further, people with high blood pressure, something often seen in steroid users, should stay away from it as well.

For studies

Ephedrine Injection - Published Studies

No worries, i have done my homework.

Regards


----------



## DiggyV

jackedjackass said:


> I never said you made the 20% claim, i just made a summary of all posts i've read.
> 
> You do not believe efedrine can cause prostate problems?(Yes, even short term, sometimes people get away with it for months, next time after 2 weeks they cannot **** anymore).
> 
> You are asking for scientific studies?
> 
> Would a patient information leaflet count?
> 
> It states people with prostate problems should stay away from it.
> 
> http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/PIL.28795.latest.pdf
> 
> Further, people with high blood pressure, something often seen in steroid users, should stay away from it as well.
> 
> For studies
> 
> Ephedrine Injection - Published Studies
> 
> No worries, i have done my homework.
> 
> Regards


No you haven't done your homework. Your opening statement is about how ephedrine causes prostate issues then link to a leaflet explaining not to take ephedrine IF you already have a prostate issue.

The second link is to a page that lists several published papers on the benefits of using ephedrine for certain situations. And this is injectable ephedrine which arrives in one big bang, rather than oral ephedrine which has a completely different dosing profile.

All. You have done now is p1ssed me off by wasting my time following links that have no beneficial information.

This thread is about the normal guy in the gym that wants some help with losing some fat, or providing some additional zing for his workout, or even for appetite suppression. The thread was full if useful information until you arrived. Tread very carefully if you choose to post again.

Also I have noticed that this is your standard approach, go in with all guns blazing and when challenged either try to bluff your way out of it, or try to Google something that helps your cause.

In this case neither have worked.

Please leave this thread and don't come back.


----------



## G-man99

Is the prefered ratio 1:10:4?

1 chesteze 18mg

1 caffeine 200mg

1 asprin 75mg

Any benefit from doubling up the eph?


----------



## DiggyV

G-man99 said:


> Is the prefered ratio 1:10:4?
> 
> 1 chesteze 18mg
> 
> 1 caffeine 200mg
> 
> 1 asprin 75mg
> 
> Any benefit from doubling up the eph?


Spot on mate. No point doubling the eph unless you want a meteoric heart rate  a lot of people will add a second dose later in the day, but built from chezteze this should give you a real kick. If you ever did double the eph, you need to double the other two as well. But not recommended, I wouldn't do it and I have done some extreme doses of this and other stomp for research purposes.


----------



## G-man99

DiggyV said:


> Spot on mate. No point doubling the eph unless you want a meteoric heart rate  a lot of people will add a second dose later in the day, but built from chezteze this should give you a real kick. If you ever did double the eph, you need to double the other two as well. But not recommended, I wouldn't do it and I have done some extreme doses of this and other stomp for research purposes.


Great advice mate, cheers


----------



## teenphysique

Diggy just wondering which is the best fat burner for assisting fat loss in your opinion is it the homemade ECA or malice fat burner etc just wondering


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> Diggy just wondering which is the best fat burner for assisting fat loss in your opinion is it the homemade ECA or malice fat burner etc just wondering


ECA. To move up in potency from ECA you need to go to Clen . Any other compound is less effective, despite the marketing hype you may read or get fed by people or reps.


----------



## teenphysique

DiggyV said:


> ECA. To move up in potency from ECA you need to go to Clen . Any other compound is less effective, despite the marketing hype you may read or get fed by people or reps.


i was going to cycle 2 weeks eca and then 2 weeks clen in a cut would you do that or not just use ECA and then 2 weeks off

but if your using clen do you still use caffiene and aspirin


----------



## DiggyV

teenphysique said:


> i was going to cycle 2 weeks eca and then 2 weeks clen in a cut would you do that or not just use ECA and then 2 weeks off
> 
> but if your using clen do you still use caffiene and aspirin


Cycle 2 on/off, don't run Clen as well. Also when running Clen no need for the C and A


----------



## Kendal07

DiggyV said:


> ECA. To move up in potency from ECA you need to go to Clen . Any other compound is less effective, despite the marketing hype you may read or get fed by people or reps.


What do you think about albuterol? Have you got any experience with it?


----------



## DiggyV

Kendal07 said:


> What do you think about albuterol? Have you got any experience with it?


Albuterol, also known as salbutemol, is from the same class of beta-2 agonists as clenbuterol and salmeterol. They work the same way and are used and dosed using the same method of titrating the dose up until you find your shake point. Then you run for 2 weeks. Take a 2 week break and repeat if required. Albuterol is marketed as Ventolin in the UK and is used to treat asthma and heart issues.

It does not have the same hit as Clen nor is it as long lasting, however is stronger than ECA.

Tbh I would suggest either ECA or clenbuterol as they are easier to come by and the protocols very well known.


----------



## Kendal07

DiggyV said:


> Albuterol, also known as salbutemol, is from the same class of beta-2 agonists as clenbuterol and salmeterol. They work the same way and are used and dosed using the same method of titrating the dose up until you find your shake point. Then you run for 2 weeks. Take a 2 week break and repeat if required. Albuterol is marketed as Ventolin in the UK and is used to treat asthma and heart issues.
> 
> It does not have the same hit as Clen nor is it as long lasting, however is stronger than ECA.
> 
> Tbh I would suggest either ECA or clenbuterol as they are easier to come by and the protocols very well known.


Thanks mate for info


----------



## Bails78

Hi Gents,

This question is directed to DiggyV

I am considering buying an ECA Stack after having done some research into the stimulants.

But I am torn between a few products. I will be following this routine of supplemenation My Current Cutting Supplementation Routine | Muscle For Life

And I am looking at these stacks but not sure which to go with:

Schwartz Labs Ultimate Burn ECA- 90 Capsules

ECA Stack EPH500 Extreme | Alpha Muscle

VPX Meltdown - Burns Fat for 6+ Hours!

HerbaLean Ephedra ECA Stack **Original Xenadrine RFA-1 Formula** 90 Caps

Would really appreciate some feedback and help with my issue.

Thanks

Bails.


----------



## Bails78

Hi Gents,

DiggyV thanks for the great post, very well written and lots of valuable/useful knowledge been shared.

I am thinking of buying an ECA stack and would like to get your opinion on the products I am considering.

Schwartz Labs Ultimate Burn ECA- 90 Capsules

HerbaLean Ephedra ECA Stack **Original Xenadrine RFA-1 Formula** 90 Caps

VPX Meltdown

Alpha Muscle ECA Stack EPH500 Extreme

I am leaning towards the Alpha Muscle stack and the Schwartz Labs Ultimate Burn, due to the ingredients used in each and the dosage qty's. Would appreciate if you or any other experienced user could comment.

Thanks,

Bails.


----------



## DiggyV

Bails78 said:


> Hi Gents,
> 
> DiggyV thanks for the great post, very well written and lots of valuable/useful knowledge been shared.
> 
> I am thinking of buying an ECA stack and would like to get your opinion on the products I am considering.
> 
> Schwartz Labs Ultimate Burn ECA- 90 Capsules
> 
> HerbaLean Ephedra ECA Stack **Original Xenadrine RFA-1 Formula** 90 Caps
> 
> VPX Meltdown
> 
> Alpha Muscle ECA Stack EPH500 Extreme
> 
> I am leaning towards the Alpha Muscle stack and the Schwartz Labs Ultimate Burn, due to the ingredients used in each and the dosage qty's. Would appreciate if you or any other experienced user could comment.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bails.


OK, the problem with any ECA stack that you get over the counter is that it will in all likelihood not contain ephedrine, but ephedra. This you can actually see from your own post. Most ECA stacks are based on a standard Chinese formula and will be Ephedra based.

VPX is a good burner but true ECA will be better.

Your best option is to build your own stack as per my original post, this is the only way to be sure you have real ECA. The ephedrine can come from chezteze or from one of the products sold by century supplements. In fact if you go to their site and look at the prebuilt ECA stacks in the weight control section you will see all the commercial ECA stacks are all ephedra, not ephedrine. Century are the only company I know that list them correctly . Most list them as ephedrine when they aren't. However their ephedrine is good 

So it I had to choose one of yours it would be VPX, however my advice would be to build it yourself.


----------



## Bails78

DiggyV said:


> OK, the problem with any ECA stack that you get over the counter is that it will in all likelihood not contain ephedrine, but ephedra. This you can actually see from your own post. Most ECA stacks are based on a standard Chinese formula and will be Ephedra based.
> 
> VPX is a good burner but true ECA will be better.
> 
> Your best option is to build your own stack as per my original post, this is the only way to be sure you have real ECA. The ephedrine can come from chezteze or from one of the products sold by century supplements. In fact if you go to their site and look at the prebuilt ECA stacks in the weight control section you will see all the commercial ECA stacks are all ephedra, not ephedrine. Century are the only company I know that list them correctly . Most list them as ephedrine when they aren't. However their ephedrine is good
> 
> So it I had to choose one of yours it would be VPX, however my advice would be to build it yourself.


Hey thanks for getting back to me Diggy,

I thought the Alpha Muscle ECA stack conatained pure ephedrine?

Do you have any experience of the ephedrine sold by 101fitnesspharma or Gen-Shi Labs ephedrine?


----------



## DiggyV

Bails78 said:


> Hey thanks for getting back to me Diggy,
> 
> I thought the Alpha Muscle ECA stack conatained pure ephedrine?
> 
> Do you have any experience of the ephedrine sold by 101fitnesspharma or Gen-Shi Labs ephedrine?


Just had a look and it claims ephedrine HCL. However 60mg of pure eph would be very bad. The homebuilt stack using chezteze has 18mg and that is a huge hit, personally I wouldn't want to take 3.5x that, and for most people if it was ephedrine then it would be way way way touch. On top of that it has synephrine and Ma Huang (ephedra). IF all those quantities were correct it would be a very dangerous product. 60mg pure ephedrine HCL would make you pretty ill.

As far as individual labs ephedrine, the problem is that it is probably the most faked compound out there, and actually getting ephedrine is very very tough. I reckon that 95% of what is sold as ephedrine, isn't actually ephedrine. Labs may believe that have bought ephedrine, when they haven't. It is things like DMAA, Synephrine, higenamine and ephedra.


----------



## Bails78

Cool, thanks Diggy.

The following is going to be my supplement routine for FASTED training.

Will be doing weights in the AM 05:45 - 06:45am

5 grams of leucine

3-5 grams of D-Aspartic Acid

Homemade ECA

2 pills of Green Tea Extract

15mg of Yohimbine

Would I be better taking the ECA stack after training or with the above?


----------



## Bails78

@DiggyV

Do I need to run Nytol with ECA?


----------



## Bails78

Hey Diggy

Do I need to or is it necessary to take Nytol along with the ECA stack?


----------



## DiggyV

Bails78 said:


> Hey Diggy
> 
> Do I need to or is it necessary to take Nytol along with the ECA stack?


If you are cycling 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off then no it is not necessary. This is the best way to run it, to give your body a chance to recover


----------



## Bails78

And can I take Yohimbine with ECA?


----------



## Bails78

Is my morning supplement routine ok that I posted above?

Thanks for getting back to me as well :thumb:


----------



## DiggyV

Bails78 said:


> And can I take Yohimbine with ECA?


you can do, but you just shut down your cells response quicker. Just stick to ECA. Also you can't cycle ECA with Yohimbine as they both affect the alpha receptor. Additionally you can't cycle ECA with Clenbuterol as they both affect the beta receptors.  Receptors hit are as follows:

Pure Alpha: Yohimbine, DMAA, Rauwolscine,Olive Leaf Extract, Synephrine, Acacia Rigidula, AMP Extract

Pure Beta: Clenbuterol, Albuterol/Salbutemol, Salmeterol, Higenamine

Alpha and Beta: Ephedrine

Technically you can run ECA cycled with Clen, but you need to be taking either Ketitofen or Diphenhydramine HCL with it to stop the Beta downregulation. These however have no effect on Alpha downregulation.

So from the list above you could cycle clen with yohimbine as they hit different receptors and therefore down interfere with each other.


----------



## DiggyV

Bails78 said:


> Is my morning supplement routine ok that I posted above?
> 
> Thanks for getting back to me as well :thumb:


Hmm, not 100% sure on that, not what I would recommend. Supplementation is very dependant on your overall goals, which I am not sure you have posted here. When I was recomping last year (this is very very difficult to do and relies on correct supplementation (in all its guises :wink: ) and modulated calorie intake each day. however I got to just under 16st with it and dropped body fat as well (see AVI  ). Also what works for me wont necessarily work for you, as is tied in with body type, daily routine, workout regime, eating patterns (and eating 5 times a day is not always necessary). 30 years of experience mean I know how to get the best from 'me'. Getting the best from 'you' takes longer than these posts, and one size never, ever fits all. You need to find whats best for you. Take advice, experiment and refine. Someones global assertion about 'this is what you must take' shows a staggering lack of actual knowledge. So be careful and temper any advice you find or get with your own experience. Learn to 'listen' to your body, use a mirror more often than scales, get callipers for body fat calculations, read as much as you can.

One of the other reasons why I am not too sure of the basis of his supplementation is his comment "yohimbine is worthless for fat loss purposes if you're not training in a fasted state" shows he clearly doesn't understand how Yohimbine actually works. People take yohimbine fasted as it increases alertness and basically acts a pre-workout as well as fat loss agent. Yoh will raise your metabolism whether you are fasted or not.

this basic lack of understanding, makes me think he has pulled this from elsewhere - possibly something more old school - as the inclusion of Spirulina is something I have not seen for a while, in fact about 20 years - well not outside of the fashionable smoothy bars anyway


----------



## Bails78

Hey DiggyV

Great reply and quite funny 

So here's a quick rundown of where I am currently at. I have been out of the gym for a whole year, after previously been in the gym for 6-8 months straight working out 5-6 days a week.

Went from 13 stone to 11st 10lb, now currently weighing in at 12st12lb

Whilst I was in the gym i was taking CLA & L-Carnitine, 3 times a day, and just using BioRhytm's Afterglow for my post workout shake.

I got in to good shape and was at my peak around 10-12% bodyfat.

I'm 5'8", Black-British, parents are from Jamaica, have a very athletic build, very broad shoulders and back, good size chest, well developed legs (from years of playing football), however have small biceps.

I aim to be starting gym again on Monday, and my goal is to cut whilst doing heavy compound weights, and HIIT.

Will be doing weights in the morning 06:00 - 07:00am & HIIT in the evenings 18:00 - 18:30(3-4 times a week)

Would like to get down to 11st 10 again. Carry most of my fat in the typical areas lower abdomen, and thighs.

Just trying to workout what is best for me to do in terms of diet and times of eating to achieve my goals.

So any input you can give me based on the information I have given you would be greatly appreciated dude.

Thanks,

Bails78


----------



## DiggyV

Bails78 said:


> Hey DiggyV
> 
> Great reply and quite funny
> 
> So here's a quick rundown of where I am currently at. I have been out of the gym for a whole year, after previously been in the gym for 6-8 months straight working out 5-6 days a week.
> 
> Went from 13 stone to 11st 10lb, now currently weighing in at 12st12lb
> 
> Whilst I was in the gym i was taking CLA & L-Carnitine, 3 times a day, and just using BioRhytm's Afterglow for my post workout shake.
> 
> I got in to good shape and was at my peak around 10-12% bodyfat.
> 
> I'm 5'8", Black-British, parents are from Jamaica, have a very athletic build, very broad shoulders and back, good size chest, well developed legs (from years of playing football), however have small biceps.
> 
> I aim to be starting gym again on Monday, and my goal is to cut whilst doing heavy compound weights, and HIIT.
> 
> Will be doing weights in the morning 06:00 - 07:00am & HIIT in the evenings 18:00 - 18:30(3-4 times a week)
> 
> Would like to get down to 11st 10 again. Carry most of my fat in the typical areas lower abdomen, and thighs.
> 
> Just trying to workout what is best for me to do in terms of diet and times of eating to achieve my goals.
> 
> So any input you can give me based on the information I have given you would be greatly appreciated dude.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bails78


I'm going to take this off here and reply via Pm a little later, so we don't fill up pages with 1:1 stuff, rather than ECA stuff.


----------



## Bails78

OK cool, apologies for the rest of the guys reading this.

Thanks, Diggy :thumbup1:


----------



## Bails78

I've just read that ECA shrinks your manhood is this true, and how can I combat it. That's not a desirable side effect I want to have.


----------



## G-man99

Bails78 said:


> I've just read that ECA shrinks your manhood is this true, and how can I combat it. That's not a desirable side effect I want to have.


It is only temporary and even then on a 1:10:4 ratio with eph at 18mg then I notice hardly and difference anyway.

Erections are not affected, just flaccid


----------



## Bails78

Nice man, thank heavens for that :thumb:


----------



## DiggyV

G-man99 said:


> It is only temporary and even then on a 1:10:4 ratio with eph at 18mg then I notice hardly and difference anyway.
> 
> Erections are not affected, just flaccid


^^^^ this.

I am lucky and don't get it with Eph, DMAA on the other hand :lol:


----------



## Wallace86

@DiggyV is ECA a better fat burner than T3?? If you do t mind me asking as I know you have some years experience for reading yiur threads etc.


----------



## G-man99

Wallace86 said:


> @DiggyV is ECA a better fat burner than T3?? If you do t mind me asking as I know you have some years experience for reading yiur threads etc.


No is the simple answer, but I'm sure Diggy will give you a more in depth answer if you need it


----------



## DiggyV

Wallace86 said:


> @DiggyV is ECA a better fat burner than T3?? If you do t mind me asking as I know you have some years experience for reading yiur threads etc.


ECA hands down.

The more I research T3, and the biological processes involved in its regulation, the more I think that T3 is actually a crap fat burner. T3 is controlled by a negative hormonal feedback loop. If your T3 levels are low, your hypothalamus is stimulated into producing more Thyrotropin Releasing hormone (TRH). This in turn stimulates the pituitary gland (the back part of it to be precise) to release Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which in turn stimulates the Thyroid gland to release TetraIodoThyronine (T4) and TriIodoThyronine (T3). Got it? :lol:

So what happens when you take more T3?

Your body's level of T3 increases, so guess what? Less TRH is produced, so less TSH is produced, so less T4 and T3 are produced by you. What happens in the end is that the T3 you are taking does little more than replace the T3 you were naturally producing. To make things worse, if you then stop taking T3 in order to let your body recover, then you become lethargic, your metabolic rate will drop and you will likely store fat. Not good.

There are also two distinct drugs available that both call themselves T3. One actually is T3 (TriIodoThyronine), that is it is the same as the chemical your body produces. The other is Tiromel or Cytomel (LioThyronine Sodium) There is only one atom in the molecule different (the swap a hydrogen ion for a sodium one) but this increases the half life of the 'T3' to around 2.5 days rather than a few hours for actual T3.

So there is a way you can run T3 as a fat burner, however it relies on you getting actual pukka T3 and running it 2 days on and 2 days off. At this interval your body's feedback mechanism will not pick up on the excess T3 to any noticeable amount, so you get the full hit. 2 days off then allows your body to stabilise before you hit it again. However it is harder to find than rocking horse sh!t. Even if your source says 'yes I have T3' it will be cytomel or tiromel. So therefore I don't recommend T3 to anyone.

So in summary ECA all the way


----------



## G-man99

In practice though, a month of T3 v eca then I would lose more 'weight' with the T3 at 50mcg?

I've found when I ran 100mcg a few years ago that it annihilated my muscle even when running aas


----------



## Wallace86

DiggyV said:


> ECA hands down.
> 
> The more I research T3, and the biological processes involved in its regulation, the more I think that T3 is actually a crap fat burner. T3 is controlled by a negative hormonal feedback loop. If your T3 levels are low, your hypothalamus is stimulated into producing more Thyrotropin Releasing hormone (TRH). This in turn stimulates the pituitary gland (the back part of it to be precise) to release Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which in turn stimulates the Thyroid gland to release TetraIodoThyronine (T4) and TriIodoThyronine (T3). Got it? :lol:
> 
> So what happens when you take more T3?
> 
> Your body's level of T3 increases, so guess what? Less TRH is produced, so less TSH is produced, so less T4 and T3 are produced by you. What happens in the end is that the T3 you are taking does little more than replace the T3 you were naturally producing. To make things worse, if you then stop taking T3 in order to let your body recover, then you become lethargic, your metabolic rate will drop and you will likely store fat. Not good.
> 
> There are also two distinct drugs available that both call themselves T3. One actually is T3 (TriIodoThyronine), that is it is the same as the chemical your body produces. The other is Tiromel or Cytomel (LioThyronine Sodium) There is only one atom in the molecule different (the swap a hydrogen ion for a sodium one) but this increases the half life of the 'T3' to around 2.5 days rather than a few hours for actual T3.
> 
> So there is a way you can run T3 as a fat burner, however it relies on you getting actual pukka T3 and running it 2 days on and 2 days off. At this interval your body's feedback mechanism will not pick up on the excess T3 to any noticeable amount, so you get the full hit. 2 days off then allows your body to stabilise before you hit it again. However it is harder to find than rocking horse sh!t. Even if your source says 'yes I have T3' it will be cytomel or tiromel. So therefore I don't recommend T3 to anyone.
> 
> So in summary ECA all the way


Thanks for the reply and the great answer this is what I was looking for


----------



## Bails78

Hey DiggyV you haven't forgotten me have you mate? Eagerly awaiting your PM.


----------



## abcplumb

M



DiggyV said:


> ECA hands down.
> 
> The more I research T3, and the biological processes involved in its regulation, the more I think that T3 is actually a crap fat burner. T3 is controlled by a negative hormonal feedback loop. If your T3 levels are low, your hypothalamus is stimulated into producing more Thyrotropin Releasing hormone (TRH). This in turn stimulates the pituitary gland (the back part of it to be precise) to release Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which in turn stimulates the Thyroid gland to release TetraIodoThyronine (T4) and TriIodoThyronine (T3). Got it? :lol:
> 
> So what happens when you take more T3?
> 
> Your body's level of T3 increases, so guess what? Less TRH is produced, so less TSH is produced, so less T4 and T3 are produced by you. What happens in the end is that the T3 you are taking does little more than replace the T3 you were naturally producing. To make things worse, if you then stop taking T3 in order to let your body recover, then you become lethargic, your metabolic rate will drop and you will likely store fat. Not good.
> 
> There are also two distinct drugs available that both call themselves T3. One actually is T3 (TriIodoThyronine), that is it is the same as the chemical your body produces. The other is Tiromel or Cytomel (LioThyronine Sodium) There is only one atom in the molecule different (the swap a hydrogen ion for a sodium one) but this increases the half life of the 'T3' to around 2.5 days rather than a few hours for actual T3.
> 
> So there is a way you can run T3 as a fat burner, however it relies on you getting actual pukka T3 and running it 2 days on and 2 days off. At this interval your body's feedback mechanism will not pick up on the excess T3 to any noticeable amount, so you get the full hit. 2 days off then allows your body to stabilise before you hit it again. However it is harder to find than rocking horse sh!t. Even if your source says 'yes I have T3' it will be cytomel or tiromel. So therefore I don't recommend T3 to anyone.
> 
> So in summary ECA all the way


Spent 30mins looking for this....but well worth it. Thank mate.


----------



## DiggyV

G-man99 said:


> In practice though, a month of T3 v eca then I would lose more 'weight' with the T3 at 50mcg?
> 
> I've found when I ran 100mcg a few years ago that it annihilated my muscle even when running aas


TBH for both in a month you would only get 2 weeks effective burning. ECA because it down regulates the receptors, and T3 because the negative feedback loop would shut down your natural production and so you would basically be taking T3 to replace your body's own T3.

The point about muscle catabolism is a good one, without the presence of elevated testosterone (or possibly GH) then you are likely to lose as much muscle mass as you will fat. Also with T3 the likelihood of heart palpitations or arrhythmia is increased, I know this from personal experience.

Between the two direct losses would probably be about the same, however when coming off ECA for 2 weeks you just allow your receptors to recover, coming off T3 for 2 weeks, you will feel lethargic and likely store fat away again as your metabolism will be somewhat suppressed.


----------



## Bails78

So my first day on ECA, and my first day back in the gym after a year and some change. Last time I was training regularlry I was 11st 9lb currently weighing 13st 2lb.

Took my first dose at 5am, along with Green Tea Extract, D-Aspartic Acid and leucine, in the gym for 6am 1hour chest workout, post workout shake and then breakfast at 09:15, Scram Eggs and a slice of toast.

Lunch was 12:15pm Chicken, Brown basmati rice, Broccoli, and a slice of Avocado

Taking next dose of ECA at 3:30 pm, along with 3 grams of leucine, then back in gym for 30 mins of cardio around 5:30pm, post cardio will take a Egg protein shake and then probably a leg of chicken and a few stalks of broccoli by 7:30pm, and that will be it. Just sip some Fruit flavoured water for rest of the evening night.

Can still feel the effects of the ECA stack I took at 5am or might be the GTE, definitley felt a lot more alive in the gym than when I have previously been back after a long break.

Will keep an update as I go along.


----------



## Bails78

Well my first day on ECA was mixed.

Had the worse night I could of had. Took my last stack at 3:15pm and could not sleep until 01:45am, bearing in mind I have to be up for 05:00am. Couldn't believe I was still feeling the effects so late in the night.

Haven't taken none today, as last night's fiasco has messed up my routine for today, was meant to be in the gym today but with so little rest and recovery no point in taking a stack today.

Thinking I may have to get some Nytol to help me get to bed.

Also now trying to workout the best times to take the 2 ECA stacks for the day. I will take the 1st stack on waking at 5am, then when do i take 2nd? I have breakfast about 9 am and lunch at 12-12:30pm so when would be the best time to take 2nd stack so I don't get a repeat of yesterday evening?

I have read that @DiggyV recommends taking in between meals, so wondering if I should have breakfast earlier say around 7am or 8am, then take 2nd stack at 11am?


----------



## Bails78

Well my first day on ECA was mixed.

Had the worse night I could of had. Took my last stack at 3:15pm and could not sleep until 01:45am, bearing in mind I have to be up for 05:00am. Couldn't believe I was still feeling the effects so late in the night.

Haven't taken none today, as last night's fiasco has messed up my routine for today, was meant to be in the gym today but with so little rest and recovery no point in taking a stack today.

Thinking I may have to get some Nytol to help me get to bed.

Also now trying to workout the best times to take the 2 ECA stacks for the day. I will take the 1st stack on waking at 5am, then when do i take 2nd? I have breakfast about 9 am and lunch at 12-12:30pm so when would be the best time to take 2nd stack so I don't get a repeat of yesterday evening?

I have read that DiggyV recommends taking in between meals, so wondering if I should have breakfast earlier say around 7am or 8am, then take 2nd stack at 11am?


----------



## dan23

what doses are you taking? and what eca do you have?

why not just start with 1 dose pre workout?


----------



## Bails78

The Standard Dose 1xChestEze, 1x75mg Aspirin, and 1x 200mg Caffeine

Took one at 5am, and 2nd dose at 3:15pm


----------



## Dan94

That's almost 12 hours between doses lol

Try 5am and then 11/12...


----------



## MrM

Looking at adding to my cut next week,

I'll be running the homebrew Chest eze stack (one dose on waking @ 6 and one at 3pm)

If I cycle it 2 on 2 off is it ok to run clen on the alternate 2 weeks?

As in 2 weeks ECA, two weeks clen .... Then repeat.

Diet / cardio / lifting are all pretty much on point and I'm running test E / mast E.


----------



## Dan94

MrM said:


> Looking at adding to my cut next week,
> 
> I'll be running the homebrew Chest eze stack (one dose on waking @ 6 and one at 3pm)
> 
> If I cycle it 2 on 2 off is it ok to run clen on the alternate 2 weeks?
> 
> As in 2 weeks ECA, two weeks clen .... Then repeat.
> 
> Diet / cardio / lifting are all pretty much on point and I'm running test E / mast E.


I think they use the same receptors so wouldn't be getting a rest so to speak so don't think you can


----------



## MrM

Dan94 said:


> I think they use the same receptors so wouldn't be getting a rest so to speak so don't think you can


Thanks, yes looks like it's going to have to be the two weeks ECA then two weeks clean. Prob not a bad thing really.


----------



## dan23

i've got some ECA left from last year that I am wanting to use before my holiday in july.

its 30/200/50

i'm currently about 25% bf and loosing 1 - 1.5lbs per week with diet and exercise.

If I go on the basis of 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, I can fit in 3 "cycles" before I go away, if I start my first this weekend.

Is it worth starting now or waiting another 4 weeks and starting then for 2 "cycles"??

I just feel like I need the extra boost at the moment, i'm down 8lbs in 6 weeks but still got a lot to shift!


----------



## B0sslike

Hi I'm pretty new to this forum, and never made a post before, i was just reading, because my english is not the best. ^^ I'm from Germany and there aren't much decent forums, because of that, I read the most stuff on this Site.

But I have a question and I can't find an Answer to it on this Forum, so has no one Tested the 101fp Ephedrine yet? I find some posts on the WWW that says it is most likely bunk and some that says it's pretty good stuff. But that aren't Forum Post's just reviews, and now I wanted some Personal Reviews from Users, that may use them atm or have used them.


----------



## Dan94

B0sslike said:


> Hi I'm pretty new to this forum, and never made a post before, i was just reading, because my english is not the best. ^^ I'm from Germany and there aren't much decent forums, because of that, I read the most stuff on this Site.
> 
> But I have a question and I can't find an Answer to it on this Forum, so has no one Tested the 101fp Ephedrine yet? I find some posts on the WWW that says it is most likely bunk and some that says it's pretty good stuff. But that aren't Forum Post's just reviews, and now I wanted some Personal Reviews from Users, that may use them atm or have used them.


Just get chesteze then u know its pharma stuff


----------



## DiggyV

dan23 said:


> i've got some ECA left from last year that I am wanting to use before my holiday in july.
> 
> its 30/200/50
> 
> i'm currently about 25% bf and loosing 1 - 1.5lbs per week with diet and exercise.
> 
> If I go on the basis of 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, I can fit in 3 "cycles" before I go away, if I start my first this weekend.
> 
> Is it worth starting now or waiting another 4 weeks and starting then for 2 "cycles"??
> 
> I just feel like I need the extra boost at the moment, i'm down 8lbs in 6 weeks but still got a lot to shift!


There is no absolute need to run as long as 2 weeks, its just this is the maximum, you could do 1 on, 1 off and then 2 @ 2/2 if you see what I mean 

Also what is your exercise protocol?


----------



## skipper1987

Any guides on Subutramine ?


----------



## dan23

DiggyV said:


> There is no absolute need to run as long as 2 weeks, its just this is the maximum, you could do 1 on, 1 off and then 2 @ 2/2 if you see what I mean
> 
> Also what is your exercise protocol?


Yeah I get it cheers. I started again Saturday, I plan to do 2 on 2 off.

Exercise is cross trainer 3 x 35 mins per week.

4 x full body workout, resistance machines and Dumbbells.

Tennis once per fortnight 

Down 10lbs now so going well.


----------



## DiggyV

skipper1987 said:


> Any guides on Subutramine ?


No mate not yet - other than "Sibutramine - it works well, but be careful using it particularly if you have elevated blood pressure".


----------



## stoic

Asked in 2 Boots stores for Chest-eze today and was told that's it been discontinued. Neither had stock behind the counter from what I could see.

Might have to try online.


----------



## Dan94

stoic said:


> Asked in 2 Boots stores for Chest-eze today and was told that's it been discontinued. Neither had stock behind the counter from what I could see.
> 
> Might have to try online.


eBay and bulk buy it


----------



## stoic

Dan94 said:


> eBay and bulk buy it


Could only find a joker trying to sell 2 packs for £20


----------



## Dan94

stoic said:


> Could only find a joker trying to sell 2 packs for £20


Took me 30 seconds, Google is a wonderful thing.

DODO CHESTEZE 4 PACKS (9's) TOTAL 36 TABLETS | eBay


----------



## stoic

FFS! Serves me right for relying on eBay mobile app

Thanks @Dan94


----------



## Dan94

stoic said:


> FFS! Serves me right for relying on eBay mobile app
> 
> Thanks @Dan94


Haha no worries


----------



## skipper1987

Dan94 said:


> Haha no worries


I been running these says 30mg ephedrine

Keep me awake on a 12 hour night shift and knocks my appetite seems to be doing the trick down 4lbs in a week.


----------



## Dan94

skipper1987 said:


> I been running these says 30mg ephedrine
> 
> Keep me awake on a 12 hour night shift and knocks my appetite seems to be doing the trick down 4lbs in a week.
> View attachment 171090


Where you get them from?


----------



## skipper1987

Dan94 said:


> Where you get them from?


Local source also got aspirin and caffeine in was using the d-hacks ultraburn but they were too strong was more like taking pills or wizz!!! Come the morning after a long shift I was paranoid and twitchy!!! lol


----------



## Greentrunk

After many visits to pharmacies I finally have my ECA stack!

got my chest-eze was a lot harder to find than anticipated!

Got 75mg aspirin from tesco, it's actually for adults who need to keep their blood thin.

Instead of proplus I've used thermopure that I had lying around from myprotein each tablet contains 50mg of caffeine.

Took my first dose this morning before going to the gym, I noticed it took me longer to recover between sets? Is this normal, my heart rate was noticeable, maybe paranoid but it felt faster. I have a high tolerance to caffeine so it must of the synergistic effect of the ECA.

Also what can I take to preserve muscle mass whilst on ECA?

I'm nearly 37 always been natty. Going to Spain in August so I've started my preparations for the beach body.

Thanks


----------



## Dan94

You don't need to take anything special to preserve muscle on ECA, it won't eat your muscles like T3 or DNP.


----------



## bronson

8mg kaisen e hcl, safe to take up to 75mg per day?


----------



## Bails78

Is it OK to take Creatine when running an ECA stack? Reason for asking is on the Creapure website it says "Creatine should always be taken with caffeine-free beverages." So wondering if the ECA stack will have an adverse effect on it?


----------



## Dan94

Bails78 said:


> Is it OK to take Creatine when running an ECA stack? Reason for asking is on the Creapure website it says "Creatine should always be taken with caffeine-free beverages." So wondering if the ECA stack will have an adverse effect on it?


No it's fine.

It probably means when you actually drink it.


----------



## Bails78

Dan94 said:


> No it's fine.
> 
> It probably means when you actually drink it.


Thanks Dan.


----------



## MrM

I've done one two week run of eca- chest eze stack - got on well, really enjoyed the added energy while on low carbs, appetite suppression and help with dropping fat. But the last few days were a bit of a head f##k.

In stead of two on two off, could it be run one week on and one week off etc


----------



## Lisbon67

anyone know anywhere online to get dodo chest eze? cant find any..


----------



## MrM

I've been stocking up, seems like big chains have none by smaller independent chemists still have some.


----------



## Lisbon67

i see chemistrydirect.co.uk and pharmacy2u.com have them but not sure how reliable they r?


----------



## SickCurrent

Anyone know how to remove the aspirin from an ECA stack? I have some causing skin rash which I blame on the aspirin.

Eph and caffine are water soluble and aspirin is not so if the powder is mixed with water and passed through a coffee filter the aspirin is theoretically removed correct?


----------



## Dan94

Lisbon67 said:


> anyone know anywhere online to get dodo chest eze? cant find any..


eBay


----------



## Lisbon67

none on ebay


----------



## chickenjunkie

Chesteze stack helped me stay up for 37 hours before my exam


----------



## Dan94

Lisbon67 said:


> i see chemistrydirect.co.uk and pharmacy2u.com have them but not sure how reliable they r?


Well try and see.


----------



## Lisbon67

Dan94 said:


> Well try and see.


thanks for the help


----------



## Dan94

Lisbon67 said:


> thanks for the help


It's £2 a box so not much to lose really..


----------



## Lisbon67

Yellow Storm anyone tried these? contains ephidrene it says, dont know how safe these are. cheers


----------



## Dan94

Lisbon67 said:


> Yellow Storm anyone tried these? contains ephidrene it says, dont know how safe these are. cheers


Looks that way.

@DiggyV ?


----------



## DiggyV

Lisbon67 said:


> Yellow Storm anyone tried these? contains ephidrene it says, dont know how safe these are. cheers


Couple of things with these. Its missing the aspirin. There is zero point adding just caffeine to the ephedrine, you may as well just take the eph. So if you do get these then you will need 75mg aspirin tabs to go with it. Also the quote in the text that reads



> If the ephedrine HCL is dispensed in single pill doses of less than 30 mg it may actually be sold on an over the counter basis in Britain.


Is inaccurate. It can only be sold in Britain in the presence of a pharmacist. Selling ephedrine in the UK like this site is, is illegal. So I've had to remove the link.


----------



## Bails78

I got a nice weekend lined up, and it involves linking a PYT up North, hoping to give her a good seeing to; so bought some Kamagra jelly, but just wanna check that I can take these whilst running ECA?


----------



## SHutcho

Ok so if i've read correctly, getting the following from Century Supplements will be sufficent for home brew ECA?

Ephedrine HCL 50 tablets (per serving 8 mg Ephedrine (Hydrochloride)) - So x2 tabs = 16mg

AllMax Caffeine - 200 mg per tab

Boots Aspirin 75 mg Gastro-Resistant - 56 Tablets

Does this look ok?

Also if im missing an all in one ECA stack somewhere to make life so much easier, please point it out.


----------



## Dan94

SHutcho said:


> Ok so if i've read correctly, getting the following from Century Supplements will be sufficent for home brew ECA?
> 
> Ephedrine HCL 50 tablets (per serving 8 mg Ephedrine (Hydrochloride)) - So x2 tabs = 16mg
> 
> AllMax Caffeine - 200 mg per tab
> 
> Boots Aspirin 75 mg Gastro-Resistant - 56 Tablets
> 
> Does this look ok?
> 
> Also if im missing an all in one ECA stack somewhere to make life so much easier, please point it out.


That's fine.

Generally all in ones are not true Eph, or incorrectly dosed. Better to make own stack in order to be more accurate.


----------



## SHutcho

Aye figured as much, everything you look at now has Ephedra in it.

It says theres 8mg per tab of Eph and to take 1 every 6-8hrs.

On here i see homebrew needs roughly 16-18mg, does this mean per day or per serving?

So for example, 2 tablets Eph (16mg) + 1 tab caffeine + 1 aspirin should be the dosage right?

Not just 1 tab of Eph every 6-8hrs, sorry but the additional info just threw me off a bit and i see people mentioning taking it twice a day, in essence meaning 4 tabs total, two in each of the two sittings? (early morning/lunch time).


----------



## SHutcho

Are these ok to take alongside clomid during PCT or is it best to wait until PCT's finished?

Took my first dose today, 2 x 8mg Eph, 1 x 200mg Caffeine and 1 x 75mg Aspirin, felt a bit jittery, alert, more chatty, when it kicked in after about 45mins or so. Mouth felt constantly dry (kept drinking plenty of water throughout), ****ing like a racehorse. However appetite suppression wasn't there, is this normal? The effects didn't seem to last very long either, couple of hours max.

Is it worth upping the dose at all or keep things as is?


----------



## G-man99

SHutcho said:


> Are these ok to take alongside clomid during PCT or is it best to wait until PCT's finished?
> 
> Took my first dose today, 2 x 8mg Eph, 1 x 200mg Caffeine and 1 x 75mg Aspirin, felt a bit jittery, alert, more chatty, when it kicked in after about 45mins or so. Mouth felt constantly dry (kept drinking plenty of water throughout), ****ing like a racehorse. However appetite suppression wasn't there, is this normal? The effects didn't seem to last very long either, couple of hours max.
> 
> Is it worth upping the dose at all or keep things as is?


Why would you cut on pct??

Bye bye gains......


----------



## SHutcho

I didn't say "I" was on PCT. Was merely asked the question today by somebody i know currently on cycle and looking at ECA as his next option but he wasn't sure if he could start it during PCT or wait until afterwards.

I'm not going to ask the question and in the next breath say ive taken my first dose without getting a reply now am i haha 

Besides, he might have been cutting on cycle!

Any info about the effects and the dosage? Should i just stick with it? Does the appetite suppression come straight away or after a few days?


----------



## dan23

SHutcho said:


> I didn't say "I" was on PCT. Was merely asked the question today by somebody i know currently on cycle and looking at ECA as his next option but he wasn't sure if he could start it during PCT or wait until afterwards.
> 
> I'm not going to ask the question and in the next breath say ive taken my first dose without getting a reply now am i haha
> 
> Besides, he might have been cutting on cycle!
> 
> Any info about the effects and the dosage? Should i just stick with it? Does the appetite suppression come straight away or after a few days?


I cant help you with the PCT side, but I took 30 e 200 c 75 a this morning at 8am and can still feel the effects of it now. I think it differs from person to person with the appetite suppression, but i'm not a massive eater in the AM anyway but it does help with the cravings later in the morning.

I just take one dose of the above per day.

Just stick with it and maybe introduce another dose at lunch time if you feel you need it after a week or so?


----------



## Dan94

SHutcho said:


> I didn't say "I" was on PCT. Was merely asked the question today by somebody i know currently on cycle and looking at ECA as his next option but he wasn't sure if he could start it during PCT or wait until afterwards.
> 
> I'm not going to ask the question and in the next breath say ive taken my first dose without getting a reply now am i haha
> 
> Besides, he might have been cutting on cycle!
> 
> Any info about the effects and the dosage? Should i just stick with it? Does the appetite suppression come straight away or after a few days?


I think it differs between people. On ECA I can't eat for **** I have no appetite and I get a little buzz. Others I know buzz their tits off and get no appetite suppression. People react differently


----------



## G-man99

@DiggyV

Is there an interaction from taking T3 and yohimbine (or caffeine) at the same time??

I.e taking both together upon waking before any food, vits etc


----------



## Bunsofsteel

Just looking for some opinions.

I've read a lot on this stack but there's little info about underlying health issues. I have low blood pressure (and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) - would this be an issue while running a stack? I've run an EC stack a couple of times and get jitters, fast heart rate and a dry mouth but I don't feel 'ill' or anything. Just a bit worried I'm gonna give myself a heart attack on it.

What are the Chances? (I'm a 29 yr old female) thanks in advance.


----------



## swole troll

Bunsofsteel said:


> Just looking for some opinions.
> 
> I've read a lot on this stack but there's little info about underlying health issues. I have low blood pressure (and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) - would this be an issue while running a stack? I've run an EC stack a couple of times and get jitters, fast heart rate and a dry mouth but I don't feel 'ill' or anything. Just a bit worried I'm gonna give myself a heart attack on it.
> 
> What are the Chances? (I'm a 29 yr old female) thanks in advance.


ECA increases blood pressure so if anything id of thought this would offer benefit rather than risk

im by no means a doc but really its high bp that is a worry on ECA so by already being low it doesnt seem like there would be much risk

if it were me id go ahead with it and just monitor bp


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## galolivie

Thank you very much. That guide is excellent and just what i need.i'm just swimming practice to loss weight Femini Just Fit GILET


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## swole troll

@DiggyV I'm finding conflicting data when i look about online and wondered whether you could shed some light on whether or not ephedrine is catabolic or anti catabolic?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1310922

Clin Sci (Lond) 1992 Jan;82(1):85-92

Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.

Pasquali R, Casimirri F, Melchionda N, Grossi G, Bortoluzzi L, Morselli Labate AM, Stefanini C, Raitano A.

Istituto di Clinica Medica 1, Ospedale S. Orsola, University Alma Mater of Bologna, Italy.

1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates). L-(-)-Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo. 2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments. Conversely, *ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen (and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence*. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar. The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine. Diet therapy significantly reduced 24 h urine levels of vanillylmandelic acid and homovanillic acid, which, however, increased to pretreatment values during ephedrine treatment. No significant effects were shown on 24 h urinary concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine during the very-low-calorie diet and/or ephedrine treatment


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## swole troll

looking positive on the anticatabolic front

Thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular responses to ephedrine and caffeine in man.

Astrup A, Toubro S.

Research Department of Human Nutrition, Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Copenhagen, Denmark.

To develop an appropriate combination of ephedrine and caffeine consisting of clinically relevant doses, we examined the acute thermogenic, metabolic, and cardiovascular effects of different doses of caffeine (C) and ephedrine (E) given separately and in combination to normal subjects. The thermogenic effect after E+C (20 mg/200mg) was larger than that of any other combinations, and E and C exerted a supra-additive synergism on thermogenesis and systolic blood pressure, while being without effect on diastolic blood pressure. The combination also had pronounced effects on glucose metabolism by increasing plasma glucose, insulin and C-peptide concentrations. During chronic treatment the effect of E+C on energy expenditure is maintained, while side effects subside because tolerance develops to its hemodynamic and metabolic effects. *During dietary energy restriction E+C promotes fat loss and preserves fat-free mass, which may contribute to its chronic effect on energy balance.* In conclusion, the hemodynamic and side effects to E+C are transient during chronic treatment, while the effect on energy expenditure persists. The compound also possesses repartitioning properties, which may be useful in the treatment of obesity

Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture.

Toubro S, Astrup AV, Breum L, Quaade F.

Research Department of Human Nutrition, Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Fredriksberg, Copenhagen, Denmark.

In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by diet (4.2 MJ/day) and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20mg), caffeine (200mg) or placebo 3 times a day for 24 weeks. 141 patients completed this part of the study. All medication was stopped between week 24-26 in order to catch any withdrawal symptoms. From week 26 to 50, 99 patients completed treatment with the ephedrine/caffeine compound in an open trial design, resulting in a statistically significant (p = 0.02) weight loss of 1.1kg. In another randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled 8 week study on obese subjects we found the mentioned compound showed lean body mass conserving properties. *We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties.* The side effects are minor and transient and no withdrawal symptoms have been found

Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.

Pasquali R, Casimirri F, Melchionda N, Grossi G, Bortoluzzi L, Morselli Labate AM, Stefanini C, Raitano A.

Istituto di Clinica Medica 1, Ospedale S. Orsola, University Alma Mater of Bologna, Italy.

1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates). L-(-)-Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo. 2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments. *Conversely, ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen *(and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar. The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine. Diet therapy significantly reduced 24 h urine levels of vanillylmandelic acid and homovanillic acid, which, however, increased to pretreatment values during ephedrine treatment. No significant effects were shown on 24 h urinary concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine during the very-low-calorie diet and/or ephedrine treatment.


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## DiggyV

This is a topic that rages and rages. Also don't skip the Aspirin part as you will miss a trick.

My view is that it is not as catabolic as diet alone, as the increased weight loss is more likely to come from fat breakdown due to the action on the Alpha and Beta receptors rather than from muscle breakdown. There will always be a certain level of catabolism from any calorifically negative diet, whether than be calorie restriction, or increased metabolic rate (from exercise or PEDs), but compounds like Eph, Yoh, Rauwolscine, DMAA will help you tip the balance more in favour of fat led weight loss.


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## Cycling01

Evening everyone,

Haven't been on here since the latter end of 2012, but feel now I need some advice from the UK Muscle community once again. I have decided to go back on the old ECA stack, but need some advice firstly. I'm currently weighting in at 12.6lbs after losing 35 pounds in the last seven weeks taking T5s, doing HIIT and a low and high carb diet every other day, but can't seem to lose the last bit of weight around my waist and sides.

I used to take 2 10mg (20mg in total) small white tablets of ephedrine and 200mg Proplus, but not aspirin (due to the risk of getting stomach ulcers) x 2 a day, once in the morning and then in the evening, before my evening session.

I'm thinking of doing the same again, but not sure if there is a better way of stacking the above and what times to take them. Furthermore what time to take them throughout the day, working full-time I don't want to be "high as kite" for my employeers to see (I can only wear my sunglasses at certain times lol), but would rather take just one in the evening, but don't think it will be that effective.

Additionally would it be recommended to take a PCT e.g. clomid and novadex after the cycle to keep my libido and credentials working without a problem.


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