# 2nd DNP cycle - starts tomorrow.



## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Hey, all,

will be starting my second cycle on DNP tomorrow, as I said in my previous thread (for those of you who haven't seen it, it's here: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/223622-dnp-type-1-diabetes-log.html

This one will be a bit different, however. Plan is to stick to the same dose (125mg) for a month, and also work on a cut diet (around 1500 cals per day).

Last time, I lost 11lbs, hoping for around 20 this time. Want to knock the weight down to around 9% bf. post this cycle, I'll be going onto a 3 month cycle of test-e to build up. This is, of course, dependent on getting down to the bf% I want on this run.

I'll be doing my usual day diary, as well as answering questions along the way.

looking forward to it, actually - was some trepidation last time, and not looking forward to the fact that I'll feel like I just want to sleep for a month, but with the education and experience I have behind me, I think I should be set for pretty big fat losses this time around. 

BRS


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

good luck with this buddy

out of interest which brand you using


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

Subbed mate, started my 2nd cycle on fri, oh the joy


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## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

1500 cals, I think I'd die on that, I'm struggling to get by on 2300. What's your stats?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@Rick89 - the remnants of my last d-hacks supply, mate.

@Dr Gearhead - 6'5", 220lbs, around 15%bf. Type 1 diabetic, so slow metabolism. I don't get hungry on DNP anyway, but will be supplementing with psyllium husk to stop any hunger that does arise. 

After my last DNP run, I've stripped a lot of fat - this is an effort to get rid of the last ****ty bit around my waist...


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## FuriousRunt (Apr 10, 2013)

Hello again m8. Looking forwards to reading again.

I'm 2 weeks into my cycle and making really good gains (losses?)

OT: nice work with Driveclub!


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@FuriousRunt - I guess that's my identity blown then, mate! ;-) But thanks - the reception for the game at the show was great!


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 1*

So, due to my travels last week, I've gained some weight. Trying to stick to a cutting diet when you're working in a foreign country with catering supplied is practically impossible, IMHO - regardless of your willpower! 

I arrived back in the UK on Saturday morning, so didn't get to do my few days of carb depletion. My weight gain seems to be about 50% fat, and 50% re-charging of muscle glycogen. My build has bulked out, and I'm feeling reasonably big, but also a bit flabby around the belly. I'm putting this down to having less than ideal circulation being diabetic, and it seems that the gain of weight seems related to that in some way.

Start weight is 15 stone 13lbs (223lbs, 101.3kg) - I'm hoping to strip that to around 200lbs over the next month. My waist (or should I say, "the fatty bit around my waist"), currently measures just over 39 inches.

Diet is between 1500 and 2000 cals per day (as I mentioned above) made from 6 small meals and supplements. Breakdown is as follows:

Breakfast: Omelette (dry fried) - 3 egg whites, 1 whole egg, with a slice of Hovis Granary Toast (medium) and a small amount of Lurpak "lightest" butter.

1030: Chicken Breast, 1 table spoon of ligher than light mayo, handful of Rocket.

1300: Mint Chocolate Protein Shake (MyProtein) - 1 scoop

1600: 1 can of Tuna (in brine) with 1 table spoon of ligher than light mayo.

1800: 1/2 scoop of Creastorm pre-workout formula from MyProtein

2030: 2xChicken Breasts, baked in 1 tablespoon of Pesto, with a handful of Broccolli.

Over the course of the day, I'll also be taking Psyllium Husk tablets to stop my hunger (6 of them).

DNP and supplements is:

125mg DNP

3000mg Vit-C (Morning, Mid Aft, Evening)

600mg ALA

1 Sachet Dioralyte

800ui Vit-E

Walnuts (for magnesium)

and after 3 days (maybe less), adding 1 tab of T3.

All my supplies were from D-Hacks before the fella was shut down.

---

So far today, DNP, Vit-C, ALA, Vit-E.

Feeling a bit warm, but other than that, just need to pee a lot from all the water!


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

Be interesting to see if your d hacks stuff has degraded at all, others have said it has degraded in time once the pots been opened. I started on friday with the left overs from my last cycle (tub was first opened 6 weeks ago, and after 3 days at 375 felt nothing much at all so have switched to albion synthesis 250mg and sweating like mad.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@Just_Bob - I was wondering that too, but I kept it in a (relatively) cool, dark, dry place, and it's been about 3 weeks since I last took it. I guess we'll see. 

That said - I am pretty thirsty!


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## FuriousRunt (Apr 10, 2013)

Yeah the raging thirst whilst having to pee all the time really does my head in lol.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 2*

Day 1 went without issue - I could feel a little extra warmth, and post gym at home I started to feel really quite hot. To the point I slept with the window open.

Very heavy sleep, as usual on DNP, and woke up this morning feeling like I'd only been to sleep for about 10 minutes.

Had my eggs and toast this morning, got to work and have taken my vit-c, my dioralyte, vit-e and ALA. Drinking lots now.

One quite odd thing I've noticed is that something changes in my workouts when I'm on DNP. Even though I progressively tire as my cycle extends, there's something different about... "me"... Not really sure how to explain it, but I seem to have more aggression or determination to complete sets.

I noticed this during the first cycle, and then it happened again last night. Doing chest exercises, and I could really push to complete all the sets - to a point that I actually had to abandon an exercise later in my workout due to the fact that my muscles were so completely pumped to exhaustion.

Anyway - obviously there's never much to report the first few days, but I'm sure things will be 'hotting up' shortly.

As ever, I'll be doing my weigh-ins at the weekend.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 2 - half way*

Quite warm now. Urine smells like asparagus again too. Ah, DNP - welcome back, old friend.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 3*

Last night, the heat was building. A lot. I'm one of the few people in England who are relatively thankful for the ****ty UK weather, but last night felt "close". Even though I was only on day 2 of the cycle, I had to sleep with the window next to my bed open, and a fan blowing directly onto me. That's OK during the week (as I work away from home), but won't really work out for me when I go home at the weekend. Kinda dreading that.

Still on next to no carbs - sticking rigidly to the diet.

I got a bit ****ed off with the whole "waiting for the weekend" to weigh myself, so I went out last night and bought a scale.

When I got back from LA, I'd not been to the gym for around 2 weeks, and I'd been eating a lot of **** in the US, so whilst I was upset about it, I wasn't surprised to see that my weight had gone back up to 15 stone 13 lbs. When I weighed myself this morning, after 2 days of doing things properly, I'd dropped to just over 15 stone 6 lbs.

Whilst I doubt it'll happen, I'd love that level of weight loss to continue - I'll be in good shape by the end of the cycle! 

Blood Sugars look good. As I'm on Day 3 now, I'm expecting them to drop due to glycogen depletion. My workouts are still strong, and I'm feeling pretty pumped today after my back and bicep session last night, but I'm expecting this to get harder over the next few days too.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

I'll be watching again big guy!


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## MC-Racer (Mar 15, 2013)

Good luck with this, it does get alot easier when you get more experience as you don't tend to rush because its not worth it but then I have been taking my DHack stuff for a period of over 3 months and losses have been getting smaller as time has gone on, don't know if its the fact I've been slacking or the product has degraded. I'm about 20-21% BF now looking in the mirror, though the fat calipers say 18% which I'm definately not but have gone from 215lbs too 188lbs on £55 of product which is the best money I've spent, still have another 10 day cycle @250mg to go before I'm completely finished.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@MC-Racer - do you mean various different cycles over the course of 3 months using the same batch of DNP?


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## MC-Racer (Mar 15, 2013)

yeah, I haven't felt comfortable running for more than 15 days max, as I cycle to work which is 1.5-2 hours cardio 5 days a week, so after 7-8 days it gets incredibly hard to get out of bed in the morning for my commute and the misses hates the fan on at night.

Also had to fit cycles around when I wanted to drink booze so my cycles have ended up being spaced over a 3 month period.

What sort of effects of the anabolic rebound have people seen as I'm nearly a week off my last cycle and my average time to get to work has dropped 5 minutes and I smashed my PB by 4 minutes on monday, over 12.5miles is a massive jump.


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## MunchieBites (Jan 14, 2013)

subbed dude- on day 10 of a 125mg/day cycle myself and MY GOD AM I WARM


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

MunchieBites said:


> subbed dude- on day 10 of a 125mg/day cycle myself and MY GOD AM I WARM


Haha, I know the feeling!

P.s IN!


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 4*

Went to the cinema with a bunch of mates last night to see "Man of Steel" (didn't think that much of the movie, for what it's worth). Went out for Tapas afterward, and chose (in the most part) dishes which would maintain a low carb, decent protein and as low fat as possible (mostly fish and meat dishes). Stuck to water and diet coke (no beer), and didn't get any sides, so think I must have got the combo correct. 

Did eat a lot more carbs than I should have, though, so was expecting less weight-loss this morning. On waking, I'd dropped to 97.8kg (15 stone 5 lbs) from yesterdays 98.2kg. Whilst that isn't much, considering the amount I ate, plus the fact I wasn't at the gym last night, it proves it's working.

One thing I did think of, though, and I point this question at @DiggyV - it's approx 3 days for glycogen depletion, following the regime I'm on. With the effect of DNP, is it the case that there's no way I can get any glycogen back into my muscles, even though I'm on a low dose? I guess the question comes from the "guilt" of eating so much last night - even though my food was as close to "on target" as I could get, given the circumstances. 

Started taking the T3 today too. I haven't been suffering as much with tiredness this time - it's generally pretty late at night before I'm totally wiped out - but I figured I'd get on it anyway. Obviously that should help with the weight loss too, so I guess we'll see over the next few days.

Blood sugars have been pretty stable all in. Not had to do any adjustment just yet - I'm expecting that to happen over the next few days, though. Seem to be maintaining my pumps, too, which is a bit odd. DNP does seem to give me a lift at first - as I said earlier in this thread, I seem to have just an edge more ferocity than normal. I don't know whether I just feel like that as I'm putting in more effort as I'm feeling weaker, but I'm really pushing to hit every rep of every set, even when I feel like I'm about to collapse. 

So how do I feel?

Well, a bit nonchalant - can't really be ****d with anything. I am getting warm, I am a bit tired (but not that bad), and I'm feeling a bit "puffy" - ankles have swelled a bit (a weak point for me with water retention), and my remaining belly fat feels very wobbly and apparent.

Back on the diet proper now, and the next social event coming up is a family BBQ on sunday. But that just means grilled meat and salad, so I reckon I'm all good.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 4*
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


Keeping carbs low (and in your case normally very low  ) will keep glycogen pretty much empty on DNP. However as its action is linear with dose, and while at 250mg I reckon you dont get any bleed through of glycogen, at 125mg you may get some transport, although I have nothing at this stage that will back this up. I need to do some experiments to see if I can validate this :devil2: . If it does I reckon it will be low amounts and burned back quite quickly anyway. So losses may slow a little, but you should still keep the downward trajectory.

However your 'more carbs than i should have', is probably still lower than my normal level of carbs when on DNP anyway :lol:


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## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> However your 'more carbs than i should have', is probably still lower than my normal level of carbs when on DNP anyway


How many a day are you on fella and what do you weigh ?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 5*

Did legs last night at the gym - was going to do abs too, but by the time I was finished on the legs, I wanted to crawl up into a ball and die. Note to self - do abs first. 

Was a bit hot last night - obviously the slightly higher ambient temperature of the summer, despite the rubbish weather, isn't helping.

Weigh in this morning was 96.9kg, which is 15 stone 3.6lbs. That's just under 1kg (2.2lbs) lost since yesterday.

The low-carb cutting diet is certainly helping this time. I can practically feel myself losing weight over the course of the day - quite bizarre, really. My body shape is changing as I watch too.

I also measured my last remaining "fat bit". Just about an entire inch lost over the course of the week. 

DNP FTW!


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Good luck with this mate looks like you're off to a good start.

My advice is to really maintain the low carb diet and do plenty of cardio. When you come off bring the carbs back in nice and slow. My first cycle I went from 92kg to 81.6kg in 38 days, but struggled when I came off as I literally hadn't eaten a single bad thing in that time, this led to me eating everything I wanted...not good. I'm at 87kg now and when I run a cycle again will be doing a shorter run so I can ensure I maintain the losses.

I noticed that the heat feels to die down or you just adjust to it around day 8.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 6*

Well, so far, not much to report, if I'm honest - at home now, and weighed myself on our home scales, which reported I'd gained weight (about 1lb). Oddly enough, I do feel heavier, which is a bit odd. It's a struggle to stick to the diet Friday thru Sunday, principally because there's a lot of travelling involved in my schedule, but as far as possible, I try to stay on target. Yesterday, I'd say I was slightly above maintenance, and today probably slightly below. I'm hoping its just differences in scales which is showing up here.

I'm only slightly warmer than normal today - not that hot at all. I gather for 'normal' people, it's a bit close today, so it may be the case I'm just not feeling any heat at all. The only thing that's actually telling me I have DNP in my system is the fact that my pee smells of asparagus.

Not sure what's going on, tbh - I'm wondering if my supply has gone off a bit? It's not that old, though - maybe a month to 5 weeks? I just recall feeling the sides a lot more last time...


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 7*

Seems there's no real commonality between scales, as I've dropped 1lb this morning, despite having my main cheat meal last night (a big chilli). Was reasonably hot last night, despite it being quite cold - nothing to write home about, though.

Today is a big family do (mother in law's birthday), so have had my breakfast, and only having a protein shake between now and then. Will be focused on meat (it's a BBQ), so hopefully I can stay within my BMR maintenance.

Off back up to Cheshire again this evening, so back to the standard diet. I'll put up new measurements as of tomorrow.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 7*
> 
> Seems there's no real commonality between scales, as I've dropped 1lb this morning, despite having my main cheat meal last night (a big chilli). Was reasonably hot last night, despite it being quite cold - nothing to write home about, though.
> 
> ...


Weather is ****e up here so nothing to worry about in regards to heat


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## Adz (Jan 29, 2008)

Watching this, good luck with it, sounds like you off to a good start.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 8*

After the BBQ yesterday, I started to cook a bit. When that happens, seems to make me want to sleep!

Drove back to Cheshire last night, then slept like a brick. I'm still wondering if my DNP has degraded, tbh - I've taken it this morning and I'm not feeling any sides. My urine still smells of Asparagus, but heat was the single thing which used to make me realise that I'd taken DNP. Seems the only time I actually get the heat at the moment is when I overdose on Carbs, which is a bit disconcerting. Might have to buy some new stuff.

Blood sugars are OK - weight increased a bit over the weekend (I'm not surprised) - about 400g (96.8kg to 97.2kg). In fairness to the stuff, that's pretty good considering the amount I ate - but I guess it depends on what losses I see tomorrow morning.

Body-shape looks to be changing. As you're probably all aware, I'm fairly low bodyfat, aside from quite literally a tyre round my waist. This is the *only* reason I'm using DNP, as the rest I've lost through just diet and exercise. This band of fat was centralised and relatively wide, but it seems lower now, and has the appearance of 'dropping' as it's fading.

This is the start of week 2. Essentially 3 weeks to go. I'm going to do my damndest to stick to the diet 100% for the next 3 weeks, and I'm going to up the cardio, as I just want to see how far I can really go with this.

For information's sake, dependent on the outcome of this DNP cycle, I'm planning on running a 12 week cycle of Test-E directly after. Whilst the primary aim of this will be to build up massively, I'll be running at only slightly above BMR in order to maintain, or further, the weight-loss. Hit it from every angle, right?  Time is my enemy now - my 40th is in September, and it was my goal to be in the best shape of my life by that point. That wouldn't be so bad had I not been a champion competitive swimmer up to the age of 18...


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## FuriousRunt (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm wondering if mine is slowly degrading too. I'm on the last few days of my 250mg cycle, and the last 2 nights I've felt a bit chilly! I know the temperature has dropped a bit recently though.

I'm gonna be left with nearly 80x125mg. Was gonna do another cycle Autumn/Winter time. But if the y're gonna be useless I may have to buy a new batch.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Last time I ran DNP was part of an old batch. These were 250s and was very hot with them. Did not notice any degradation of effect. I have had a quick look, and while there seems to be some anecdotal evidence, from my non-extensive  search it seems that anaerobic bacteria can degrade it in soil, so cant provide a definitive answer at this point.


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## Big Cat (Apr 4, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> Last time I ran DNP was part of an old batch. These were 250s and was very hot with them. Did not notice any degradation of effect. I have had a quick look, and while there seems to be some anecdotal evidence, from my non-extensive  search it seems that anaerobic bacteria can degrade it in soil, so cant provide a definitive answer at this point.


I'm not an organic chemist, but I recall enough from organic chemistry to conclude that DNP is an extremely stable molecule that isn't prone to degradation by exposure to the elements in your living room  So I would be inclined to agree.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Big Cat said:


> I'm not an organic chemist, but I recall enough from organic chemistry to conclude that DNP is an extremely stable molecule that isn't prone to degradation by exposure to the elements in your living room  So I would be inclined to agree.


Additionally as one of its primary legitimate uses is also as a dye, it kinda also points to the fact that it remains stable.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 8*

Had a bit of a rough day at work yesterday, so was kinda off my food. Ate maybe 1000 calories over the course of the day, which isn't something I like to do, but I just couldn't really be bothered to cook. Missed the gym too.

Weighted myself this morning and I'd dropped to 95kg. That's essentially 5kg (11lbs) in 8 days. Can't imagine any of that is catabolism as I did actually eat yesterday, and it was a one off from the point of view of a super low calorific intake. Spent much of the day in a meeting without air-conditioning, concentrating on trying not to sweat! 

So with regard to the denaturing of DNP - I don't think that's happened. What I am wondering, though, is whether there's some variation to the dose in each tab. Some days I really feel the heat, then others it doesn't touch me. I remember this from my last cycle too. It's a bit odd. Anyway - it's working, so I'm all good.

Waist measurement (my fatty bit) is down to just under 38", which is down another inch from the last time I measured. Obviously the fat is clearing, although at the moment, I can't really tell visually - just looks like I'm getting smaller around the waist, but the blobs of fat on my stomach are sticking around.

I'm now 14 stone 13lbs. I'm also 6'5" tall, so I'm approaching what would be considered to be "my perfect weight" by medical professionals (14 stone - 88kg). I'd say I have about 3 lbs of stubborn fat around my waist, so unless a lot of that remaining 13lbs comes directly off my stomach area, I fear I may need to go quite a bit lower to rid myself of this for good. 

Keeping up with all my vitamins - C, E, ALA and essential salts Dioralyte and Mg.  Don't forget those, folks!


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Good progress BRS. :thumb:

Try to keep the protein height even if you dont feel like eating - bars or shakes can help here. DNP on its own is muscle sparing, so doesn't inherently catabolise muscle, however the T3 will if you dip too often. Protein and the gym will stop this, but I guess I dont need to tell you that.


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## FuriousRunt (Apr 10, 2013)

You maybe right about the variation of the pill strengths. But that was the 3rd night in a row where it felt like a normal nights sleep.

I'm not too worried as tomorrow is my last day. But still wanted to go out on a high


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 9*

Ironically, I'm now doubting my scales. 

I weighed myself this morning, and had dropped to 93.9kg, which is a drop of 1.1kg since yesterday. That seems astonishing, and nothing like the relatively small losses I was seeing in my last cycle. In the last 9 days, I've apparently lost 6.1kg (just under a stone - 13.42lbs). Now, some of that will have been water weight from my trip to LA (I swell like a balloon on trans-atlantic flights), but still 13.42lbs in 9 days!?

I weighed myself twice - once before my shower, and once after. Same result.

I did have DNPoo (  ) yesterday which may have "helped" a bit, but still - that's outrageous.

I'm still struggling a bit with my losses, though. The key reason for taking DNP (I'm usually much more of a diet and exercise type of bloke) is due to the stubborn fatty band around my waist. That is getting smaller, but not in line with what I'd expect from 2.2lbs of losses a day. That said, it does seem to be a lot more mobile now - I was doing decline situps last night, and my belly fat was sliding around on my abs, which was quite an odd sight, but it's still present, none the less.

21 more days to go. The mind boggles as to how this is going to turn out... 7% bodyfat, anyone...? :tongue:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Strange as it may seem, nothing unusual in this BRS. As we have discussed some of this will be water weight, some genuine honest to goodness fat loss  My biggest losses without the water loss you will have had, have been well over a stone in just over 2 weeks. When it works and you have everything running as it should then 0.5 to 1lb a day is easily achievable.

I also have a more mobile waist band  just waiting to see whether I will get any further skin shrinkage, although this may be false hope at 47.

Either way I dont really care, not to have the bulge is great. Just need to diet a little harder :lol: to get the moobs gone.


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

I don't think there is anything wrong with your scales mate, I had one day which I lost 1kg. I think that was around day 7, was very surprised but I checked myself on two different scales.


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## Pandy (Jul 14, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Last time I ran DNP was part of an old batch. These were 250s and was very hot with them. Did not notice any degradation of effect. I have had a quick look, and while there seems to be some anecdotal evidence, from my non-extensive  search it seems that anaerobic bacteria can degrade it in soil, so cant provide a definitive answer at this point.


How old was the batch when you used it again Diggy?

I have an oldish batch of Dhacks 250mg coming my way (not sure how old yet), but just wondering what to expect. By the sounds of it they should still be ok.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Pandy said:


> How old was the batch when you used it again Diggy?
> 
> I have an oldish batch of Dhacks 250mg coming my way (not sure how old yet), but just wondering what to expect. By the sounds of it they should still be ok.


It was about 4 months - at least - possibly 5. DNP was fine, caps were super brittle though and let me tell you a mouth full of DNP powder doesn't taste good, combined with half a yellow tongue and you get very odd looks :lol: This was powdered in caps as well, which is technically more likely to degrade quicker as there is a bigger effective surface area. If tabs they should be G2G, IMO.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 10*

Over the last few days, my diet has been ****ty to say the least. On Monday, I barely ate a thing. On tuesday, I was about at maintenance, but the food was junk (a hotdog at the cinema, for example) and last night it was all to hell - was round a friend's for a game of poker and had a huge home made steak pie.

Net result - weight gain.

My weight is bouncing around like a tennis ball (topical, eh?  ) at the moment. I'm back up to 95.5kg today, which is disappointing, and a little extreme given the calorific intake. I'd estimate I was about 1500 cals over maintenance yesterday, which means that over the last 3 days, I'm a little over maintenance in general. This has apparently given me a 1.6kg weight gain, and my waist is back up to 38" on my fatty bit.

Perhaps it's water (although I did sweat like a mule at the gym last night), or perhaps it's the contents of my stomach weighing in, but it's still a bit of a ****.

Now the weird stuff! When I went to the gym, then round to my mates house, I felt like I had really low blood sugar at the time, and asked him to hook me up with something sugary. He and a couple of my other mates commented on how "yellow" I looked, which worried me. I'd just come from the gym (where I had done 15 minutes jogging - about 2.5km and 7.5 minutes tabata prior to my workout), so I'd lost a lot of sweat, so I quickly downed a couple of pints of water which seemed to sort me out.

There have been other bodily fluids that are bright yellow too - that's all a bit odd!

Back to standard cutting diet again today. Hopefully everything will settle down now for the next 2 and a bit weeks.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

My guess is water mate, no way will be fat. Additional waist measurement will be the food baby you have grown The foods you ate will have high sodium (hot dogs, pie), which will make you hold more than normal. Yellow body fluids is normal, being yellow is normally not a concern until you get to maybe 500mg, and certainly not on 125mg.

Get back on the diet BRS, below maintenance, and stay there. :nono:

My guess is that you will have a correction shortly and get back down to where you were almost as quickly as you bounced up.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@DiggyV - once upon a time, I was a social smoker. Seems now I'm a social eater! :tongue:


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 10 - UPDATE*

Still a bit yellow in the eyes, and have been hitting my vits as required, but have now developed quite a bad sore throat.

Seems I got off relatively lightly on my last run of DNP - all the "famous" sides are now showing their faces! :tongue:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

glycerol

this helps the throat.

yellow eyes is unusual on 125mg


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## Ghostspike (Jan 21, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> glycerol
> 
> this helps the throat.
> 
> yellow eyes is unusual on 125mg


Drinking more water should fix it, if on 125


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 11*

Weight beginning to drop again - down to 94.5kg today (14 stone 12 lbs).

Not too much to report regarding sides either - can feel the heat, am a little yellow in the eyes, sore throat has backed off a bit, and I'm ****ing like a race-horse from the amount of water I'm drinking. :tongue:

One interesting observation is a change in my muscle density since I last cycled DNP. The first time, my muscles fell flat as a pancake. This time they're actually maintaining some of their volume. My "pub science" perspective here is that I'm actually pushing myself as hard as possible to maintain similar performance to what I was before being on DNP. It *HURTS - A LOT*, but I don't just want to turn into a dish-rag by not pushing. Idea is that if DNP effectively raises my metabolism so it feels like I'm "jogging" all the time, a similar effect should be seen by pushing myself at the gym - in other words, there are potential "effort gains" just by not compromising what you'd normally do at the gym.

As I said - probably all bo11ocks, but there is some evidence to support it.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

So you have lost 12lb in 11 days? I would be more than happy with that.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@funkdocta - Yeah, it's around that. Not sure if I'm still retaining a little water, but by tomorrow I'm expecting it to be knocking on a stone of loss.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> @funkdocta - Yeah, it's around that. Not sure if I'm still retaining a little water, but by tomorrow I'm expecting it to be knocking on a stone of loss.


Sounds great. I will be starting next week, cant wait to give it a bash. The side im not looking forward to most is the craving carbs... thats bad enough without being on DNP ha


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> Sounds great. I will be starting next week, cant wait to give it a bash. The side im not looking forward to most is the craving carbs... thats bad enough without being on DNP ha


I don't get carb cravings at all, tbh. If you do, psyllium husk tablets are your friend!


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 12*

My journey south is never very much fun - least of which after one of the worst professional weeks of my life. Safe to say the coffees and fast food (chicken mcnuggets - I try to stay on target "in theory" at least! :tongue: ) don't really help my cause.

Weighed in this morning, on different scales, and I'm 14 stone 13 lbs. I'm OK with that. These scales seem to have a 1.5lb - 2lb variation on the ones I use while I'm in the North, so that probably means I'm around the same as I was yesterday.

Going for a swim today, all vits etc taken as I should. Going to force myself to stick to the diet this weekend too - that'll be a test of resolve - with a wife who likes her grub (but stays in remarkably good shape), and kids who love anything sweet, I'm literally surrounded by temptation. Aaaaargh! :tongue:

Stomach is still wobbly - can't see a whole load of difference tbh. I'm wondering if there's areas of fat that DNP just can't reach...!

I'm sure the T1 Diabetes and constant supply of insulin aren't helping either...


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 12*
> 
> My journey south is never very much fun - least of which after one of the worst professional weeks of my life. Safe to say the coffees and fast food (chicken mcnuggets - I try to stay on target "in theory" at least! :tongue: ) don't really help my cause.
> 
> ...


How long are you running this for? Interesting to find out if the DNP affects where the fat is burnt from. I suppose though it would just be down to the individual?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> How long are you running this for? Interesting to find out if the DNP affects where the fat is burnt from. I suppose though it would just be down to the individual?


It does seem to come off from all over - I can see my top two abs no problem - the stubborn bits of fat are stubborn even for DNP, it seems.

Weirdly enough, when I got home last night (having been away at work for 5 days), my wife said, 'you look "small"'. She doesn't give a rats about any muscularity, her comment was based on weight.

i think the issue is that my initial estimate of where I needed to get to, weight wise, to get rid of all the fat around my waist, wasn't LOW enough. I tried to approach this from a pseudo scientific perspective - maintain as much muscle as I could, and strip the fat right down, then build from scratch.

thats working out, but I suspect that my initial estimate of 14 stone for my 'stripped' weight may be incorrect. It may need to be closer to 13 stone, which is concerning, as the last time I weighed that much was when I was about 15...

This cycle is 30 days long (scary sides dependent!), so not half way yet. My biggest issue is managing everything around this due to my enforced lifestyle - maintaining a flawless diet 7 days a week and hitting the gym hard 4 times a week is proving difficult when working 80 hour weeks and living 220 miles from home! :tongue:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Ghostspike said:


> Drinking more water should fix it, if on 125


not necessarily, as its about how the water is used and directed, not just the shear volume of it. The glycerol helps shuttle the water around more effectively - especially to the mucous membranes like the throat and nose.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> glycerol
> 
> this helps the throat.
> 
> yellow eyes is unusual on 125mg


Wish i would of read this sooner, ive been having a sore throat for a few days, regardless of much water I drink. Just bought some Glycerol now, cheers


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> not necessarily, as its about how the water is used and directed, not just the shear volume of it. The glycerol helps shuttle the water around more effectively - especially to the mucous membranes like the throat and nose.


I'd read in your previous postings about glycerol, mate, but it wasn't that bad, so I didn't bother. It now looks like I've got a cold (bunged up nose etc) could this be the DNP affecting my nasal mucus memberane or is it, in fact, a cold? :tongue:


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 13 (Sunday) and Day 14 (Monday)*

Wasn't much to report yesterday - felt very restless due to the heat of the weather (25° in the south!), and couldn't really take it easy as I had to gloss all the doors in the kitchen as well as run around after the kids.

The journey back to the North in my "good but somewhat malfunctioning" car meant I didn't really have much in the way of air-con, combined with 2 major delays made a 4.5 hour standard drive into a 7.5 hour journey which kicked my ass. Safe to say I'm properly knackered this morning.

Weight was stable over the weekend. 94.6kg (14 stone 12lbs). I'm hoping to be able to get that down to 90 by the end of this week.

I don't know if it was the combination of the heat, plus the fact that I felt like I didn't sit still for the entire weekend, but my blood-sugars crashed yesterday. I didn't see readings of > 5.0 all day, so was having to take on a lot more carbs to sort it out (also adjusted my basal insulin again, but that change took a while to work through). Pretty much trashed my efforts for maintaining low-carbs though. 

My body-shape is changing, although it's a bit odd.

The area around my upper abs (just below by ribs) feels tight and almost distended (I did do a big abs sesh late last week), and it now feels like my flabby bit is almost like a bum-bag. It's obviously shrinking (despite what my tape-measure says), but it's not uniform - it's almost like watching the fat disappear down a plug-hole, if that makes any sense? The outer edges are stripping, the inner staying the same (or decreasing very slowly).

Gonna try for a big training week this week too - work permitting. Trying to get plenty of sleep too.

Over the weekend, I used one of those electronic things for measuring your body-fat. I realize they're not very accurate, but I figured it'd give me an approximate result. It said I was 14.4% bf now. Based on this, I worked out how much more weight I'd have to lose (as fat) to be down to 9% (my target). The results were 14lbs. Apparently, the calculations are always out by a few lbs, so I'd say based on that, I need to lose between 17 and 19lbs to reach my target. If I can drop to 90kg this week (14 stone 2lbs), that will leave me around 7-9 to go.

I don't think I'll be able to lose that much in the 2 weeks and 2 days that remain on this cycle, but my next plan of attack is to run a 12 week Test-e cycle to build up (running at just above maintenance), so hopefully that will help me strip the last bit of fat.

My 40th is in mid September, and my aim was to have a flat stomach with visible abs by that time. All being well, I'll have been on Test-e for 6 weeks by then (on a 12+ week cycle), so hopefully I should just about make it, all being well as this cycle of DNP ends. Either way, even if I miss the target, I should be pretty close, and should be where I'd like to be by Christmas at the latest.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> I'd read in your previous postings about glycerol, mate, but it wasn't that bad, so I didn't bother. It now looks like I've got a cold (bunged up nose etc) could this be the DNP affecting my nasal mucus memberane or is it, in fact, a cold? :tongue:


Coule be either unfortunately - but on the plus side, if you go get some Honey, Lemon and Glycerol cough medicine from boots it will hit both at the same time :thumb:


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Which brand of DNP are you using for this?

Any more updates on progress?


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

any pics in any of the 2 cycles?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@Ben89 - I'm using the remains of my last D-Hacks supply. More info on Progress in the next post.

@JANIKvonD - I have photos, but I'm going to be putting them up post the cycle. Only 1/2 way through at the moment.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 15*

I'm now officially half way through this cycle (30 days long),

Stat update:

Start Weight: 15 stone 13lbs (223lbs, 101.3kg)*.

Current Weight: 14 stone 9.5;bs (205lbs, 93.2kg).

Start Waist Measurement: Just over 39 inches

Current Waist Measurement: Just under 37 inches

*bear in mind I'd just gotten back from LA, so had some water retention, so I'm assuming I weighed about 4lbs LESS than this in real terms.

As you can see, this works. 

I'm sticking rigidly to my diet for at least 5 days a week (I'm going to try to "power through" next weekend too, but my failings when surrounded by food at home are well documented here).

I'm also sticking to taking all my required vitamins. My only 'treat' is a skinny latte at lunchtime.

I'm also doing a lot of cardio. My aim is to run around 5km on the treadmill, 5 days a week. For the last 2 weeks I've managed 4 and 3 days respectively, but I've had busy weeks. Hoping that I'll be able to manage all 5 this week. I'm also working out as standard, and literally beating myself up to try to stick with my previous weights.

Because of the fact DNP trashes your T3 production, you will feel *VERY* tired when you take this stuff. T3 is a must, but don't think that will "reset" your motivation - it won't. You'll also ache and feel like you want to just curl up in front of the telly. Basically, it makes you lazy. :tongue:

Unfortunately, due to my body structure, I don't think this will be the last time I have to take the stuff. Whilst I am seeing losses around my waist (the key motivation for taking this in the first place - all my other weight loss has just been diet and exercise), they're much slower than the losses everywhere else. I'm VERY cut everywhere else - even just walking around the veins are popping out of my arms, and my cheek-bones are sticking out like some kind of model (although I am a handsome bastard anyway) :lol:

From my rough calculations, from last weekend, I needed to lose about another 20lbs to get to 9% bodyfat (my target). I'm hoping to achieve 90kg this week - a loss of about 5kg - and then strip as much of the final chunk next week as the supply runs out.

The other thing that is worth bearing in mind if, like me, you're targeting a stubborn area which holds a lot more fat than other areas of your body - as with any dramatic weight loss, it does encourage loose skin. My gut area (which to be fair, isn't as bad as some I've seen on here!) is looking a bit 'floppy' now. There's still more fat there (and it's much looser now), so I'm sure it'll probably correct itself once I get the weight right down, but these things take time - unless you have a reasonable shape anyway, expect some wobbly bits.

My plan for fixing this is to make all the muscles underneath bigger to stretch it out! :tongue: 12-15 week Test-e cycle starts in 3 weeks (as the DNP exits my system), so hopefully none of this will be an issue in the long run anyway.

I'll keep the daily updates coming, but I have to say, based on my experiences of this today, when backed with a solid diet and exercise, there's no need to go beyond 125mg...


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## Pandy (Jul 14, 2012)

Interesting log mate. Keep it up!

I've just passed day 5 of my first dnp run.


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> @Ben89 - I'm using the remains of my last D-Hacks supply. More info on Progress in the next post.
> 
> @JANIKvonD - I have photos, but I'm going to be putting them up post the cycle. Only 1/2 way through at the moment.


what about from the first cycle mate? iv run a few DNP blasts myself (with pics) so just fancy compairing


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

JANIKvonD said:


> what about from the first cycle mate? iv run a few DNP blasts myself (with pics) so just fancy compairing


I have a few pics from my first run in my "private stash"  If I get to where I want to be, I'll post em. 

Issue being the background to this - in May last year, I weighed just under 20 stone. I'm 6'5", so I "wore it", but obviously I was a fat bloke. I decided to go "from Fatman to Batman" before I was 40 (September this year) when I vowed to see my abs again.

It all went well with the standard way to lose weight - diet, exercise etc. But the loss of weight directly around my waist has stuck around like a michellin tyre.

I looked for all kinds of solutions to this - lipo (too expensive plus scarring), extreme diets etc, but none of them worked. Then I heard about DNP from other BB websites. From there, I found this site, and the brilliant advice of @DiggyV, so decided to give it a go.

It *is working*, but it's not there yet, so I'm not that keen on dishing out pics of my "Work in Progress" bod just yet - particularly as people on here know who I am in real life! :tongue:

Post this cycle, I will put some up, though.


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> I have a few pics from my first run in my "private stash"  If I get to where I want to be, I'll post em.
> 
> Issue being the background to this - in May last year, I weighed just under 20 stone. I'm 6'5", so I "wore it", but obviously I was a fat bloke. I decided to go "from Fatman to Batman" before I was 40 (September this year) when I vowed to see my abs again.
> 
> ...


can understand that buddy. WELL....wish ya all the best with it :thumbup1:


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Great progress so far mate, keep it up! Just make sure you stick to your diet post cycle to ensure you don't gain again.

I'm going to running another cycle soon although probably only 2 weeks as that's all I have left of my dhacks. I'm thinking of running 2 weeks on and 4 weeks off for say 3 cycles, if I can find somewhere to stock up again.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 16*

Odd day yesterday. Crashing blood sugar, no other sides, no weight-loss this morning, despite a flawless diet (barring the lucozade to sort my hypo's out), but no weight loss this morning. Sitting at 93.2kg.

The rings on my fingers seem a bit tighter this morning, so I guess it could be a degree of water retention, but that's clutching at straws tbh.

Kinda puts me off schedule for hitting 90 this week. Bit ****ed about that, tbh, unless there's something else that has caused my sudden weight stasis.

Off to the gym again tonight, so I'm going to try to do another 5k run. I will win! Ggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! 

Today I also ordered my "support items" for my Test-e run. Quite nervous about that too, and feel like a hardcore druggie ordering this kinda stuff! :tongue:


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Stick with it mate and the hard work will pay off!

I remember having a few days of no weight loss, normally though the next day ended up being a really big loss, so fingers crossed!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

In for a hot weekend IIRC, keep that water intake up


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

stefanox92 said:


> Hi everybody, could i ask you where do you get dnp?
> 
> i'm from italy and i buyed from d-hacks, now i don't know where to get it
> 
> can you help me?


Rule No. 1 about being a N00B - don't hijack threads.  If you want to know where to get DNP, read through the threads or start your own.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 17*

Monday night did 5k on the treadmill, then a big shoulders/tris/chest workout. Tuesday 20 minutes bike, 8 minutes tabata, followed by bicep and back workout. Wednesday 5k on the treadmill (faster this time), then smaller upper body workout with lots of Abs as I had to go back to work. Diet has been flawless - not a single cheat.

Guess what?

No weight loss. 

I'm still feeling the sides (obv not as much!), but for some reason, my weight loss has stalled. I look like I'm losing weight (for the first time in a looooooooooooong time yesterday, I looked at myself in the mirror and thought, "yeah, things are working out!"), but even the visuals are somewhat derailed by the lack of actual weight disappearing. Not sure what it could be? I don't feel any more bloated, so I don't think it's water retention, I've been going to the loo etc, so a bit confused, really...?

I'm hoping I wake up tomorrow morning and suddenly I'm 90kg. :tongue: My current weight is 93.2kg.

Blood sugars are shot - I was 2.4 at 5.30am this morning (normal range is 5.5-7.5), so there's no doubting the stuff is still in my system...


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## Jeffers1966 (Apr 19, 2013)

Been reading this with interest last week or so , I'm very similar to yourself quite low body fat everywhere else but always had a gut & love handles , tried DNP 250mg just after Xmas but only managed 6 days , sides especially breathing , my job evolves a lot of talking , I found myself struggling and along with the sweaty nights I gave up 

Came back off a cruise on Sat 15th June and being slightly over indulgent I decided to give it another go , I weighed 13st 8 before but was frightened to weigh myself when I got back ..lol

I've been taking 250mg since Sun 16th June , that's 18 days and I've still got around 10 tabs left from my Dhacks pot ,so I'm going to see it through to the end ... I've been a lot more sensible with my diet this time , taking T3 from start along with 1000mg of Vit C and lots of protein and low ish carbs , no junk .. My weight is currently 12st 7 weighed this morning , so that over 14 pounds ,, my arms and chest & back have stayed the same just seem to have lost most around my gut , love handles are still there but not much left of them ,, I think the muscle has stayed because I've been cruising on test at a low dose for 4 years but that's another story .

All in all I love DNP , if taken correctly with low carb diet it works like nothing else ... Good luck with the continued weight loss, hope you reach your goals and that dreaded stomach disappears for good


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Big red, dont forget DNP will play with your mind, you will look in the mirror and see a mess.......... your on low carbs so glycogen levels will be low so muscles will appear flat. DNP will also make you hold water

You sound a bit disheartened with the lack of weight loss over the last few days mate, is it worth considering taking 10 days off? Let the DNP clear, have a carb refeed, refill the glycogen levels, let the water disappear, even have a cheat meal.... I came off my DNP last sat, and since then I have dropped 3.5lbs. (Restarting on Sat)

Once youve let your body reset, you can then get back on it for another 2 weeks


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Big red, dont forget DNP will play with your mind, you will look in the mirror and see a mess.......... your on low carbs so glycogen levels will be low so muscles will appear flat. DNP will also make you hold water
> 
> You sound a bit disheartened with the lack of weight loss over the last few days mate, is it worth considering taking 10 days off? Let the DNP clear, have a carb refeed, refill the glycogen levels, let the water disappear, even have a cheat meal.... I came off my DNP last sat, and since then I have dropped 3.5lbs. (Restarting on Sat)
> 
> Once youve let your body reset, you can then get back on it for another 2 weeks


I'm OK, mate - it's not a case of disheartened (although you are right - I do look like ****!) It's more a case of perfect diet + DNP = weight-loss, so why no weight loss? :tongue:

I'm gonna see it out for this cycle. Problem is, in order to get to where I wanna be, I'm moving onto Test-e in about 3 weeks. I've got 13 days left to run to the end of this DNP cycle.

I'm just gonna put it down to a glitch. I can't fathom why it would be the case that the weight loss has stopped considering the fact that I'm still getting the sides, so I guess we'll see how the next week or so works out.

I did find some information on another site (although I suspect it's incorrect) that eating slightly more carbs actually helps to increase fat burning due to the raise in body-heat. I've been on a cut for the last 14 months (lost 5 stone/70lbs), so eating more than my "budgeted" carbs freaks me out, but I guess it's something to look at if the weight loss is truly stationary...


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Jeffers1966 said:


> Been reading this with interest last week or so , I'm very similar to yourself quite low body fat everywhere else but always had a gut & love handles , tried DNP 250mg just after Xmas but only managed 6 days , sides especially breathing , my job evolves a lot of talking , I found myself struggling and along with the sweaty nights I gave up
> 
> Came back off a cruise on Sat 15th June and being slightly over indulgent I decided to give it another go , I weighed 13st 8 before but was frightened to weigh myself when I got back ..lol
> 
> ...


Mate - have you considered just running on 125mg? I think (despite my last 2 posts), the benefits of taking 250 over 125 are minimal, and for me the sides were nothing short of **** scary! I'm MUCH happier on 125mg - honestly, I could probably stay on it indefinitely...


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

How much carbs do you eat per day?

I ran dnp on a training / non training day macro split. So when its a weight day I had 50g carbs pre w/o and 50g carbs post w/o totalling 130g per day on weight days. On cardio days carbs were below 30


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> How much carbs do you eat per day?
> 
> I ran dnp on a training / non training day macro split. So when its a weight day I had 50g carbs pre w/o and 50g carbs post w/o totalling 130g per day on weight days. On cardio days carbs were below 30


1 slice of granary toast, protein shake, rocket and brocolli. From my rough calculations (being Diabetic, I'm OK at doing this!) it's probably about 70-80 carbs? Biggest lump of carbs will be the protein shake...


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

I quite enjoy alternating the carbs, i guess with diabeties you have to control yours a lot more?

Edit: what shake you using?


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## Jeffers1966 (Apr 19, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Mate - have you considered just running on 125mg? I think (despite my last 2 posts), the benefits of taking 250 over 125 are minimal, and for me the sides were nothing short of **** scary! I'm MUCH happier on 125mg - honestly, I could probably stay on it indefinitely...


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## Jeffers1966 (Apr 19, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Mate - have you considered just running on 125mg? I think (despite my last 2 posts), the benefits of taking 250 over 125 are minimal, and for me the sides were nothing short of **** scary! I'm MUCH happier on 125mg - honestly, I could probably stay on it indefinitely...


I've thought about that and tried cutting the tabs in half but ended up making a bloody mess , really stains everything as well , I'm ok on 250 now just have air con on freezing in the car and sleep on top of the bed , it's manageable 9 days left


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

News was saying next 14 days is gonna be our UK summer, temps hitting their peak for the year 

DNP is gonna be fun!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> News was saying next 14 days is gonna be our UK summer, temps hitting their peak for the year
> 
> DNP is gonna be fun!


Yeah just my luck, when im starting.... Should be bags of fun! Think ill be sleeping in the car with the aircon on full blast


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Yeah just my luck, when im starting.... Should be bags of fun! Think ill be sleeping in the car with the aircon on full blast


When you starting? mines today


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> When you starting? mines today


When the god damn stuff gets delivered! ordered over a week ago  Should be this week sometime.

I've been carb depleting for 6 days already in preparation and then they tell me theres a backlog! haha brilliant! im tempted to just start eating again and then do 3-4 day depletion from monday. I should have already lost a good few pounds of fat by now damn it!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Nightmare, I would def have a refeed this weekend or your glycogen levels will be low entering DNP


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> News was saying next 14 days is gonna be our UK summer, temps hitting their peak for the year
> 
> DNP is gonna be fun!


Trust me, it isn't. :-(

Big update to this thread tomorrow!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Trust me, it isn't. :-(
> 
> Big update to this thread tomorrow!


I'm on day 2 of a 14 day 250mg cycle, however I front loaded with 375mg for 2 days to get levels up faster. I too am warm, currently sat in the mrs car without air con!


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 18, 19 and 20*

The heat this weekend has been punishing - trying to function normally with the kids and the mrs in 30+ degree heat was one of the less fun experiences of my life, I have to admit.

Despite going out for a (very sweaty) 5k run on Sunday morning, I've still somehow put on weight despite being at maintenance or just over (well covered here - weekends are tough for me!) 

I think I've made a bit of a discovery, though.

Whilst I appreciate the fact that these things work differently for each person, and I've generally eaten more at weekends, it seems to have taken nearly 3 weeks for me to reach full glycogen depletion.

How do I know that?

Well, being Type 1 diabetic, my insulin pump has 2 types of delivery - "Bolus" which is when I give myself a dose because I've eaten something, and "Basal" which is what is delivered to me over the course of the day, even if I don't eat anything.

If I have to take any insulin *at all* for my basal, I still have glycogen in my body. The process of being Type 1 Diabetic is the fact that there is no insulin that isn't introduced artificially. The rest of the process (powering the body using glycogen reserves) continues as normal.

This last few days, my blood sugars have been *CRASHING* - I mean, BIG TIME. I've had to put temporary basal rates on of around 50% of my usual dose to maintain some kind of equilibrium, and I've been fighting it all the time.

So what does this mean?

Well, if what I'm experiencing is similar in everyone else who uses DNP, it explains why people can't generally keep going beyond 3 weeks, because it makes you feel like absolute sh!t. Having severely depleted glycogen to the point I'm talking about is basically physical exhaustion. The Glycogen Deplete stage that many people run prior to DNP will get the levels down a chunk, but not to this degree. The chance is significant, and makes you feel absolutely rotten.

When on DNP, as @DiggyV suggests, it's a good idea to have Lucozade close by, even if you're NOT Diabetic. I believe that as this is "medicinal", no one counts the calories of this recovery aid toward their daily budget. The problem being that I've been going through 2 bottles of this stuff a day, which I think may be what is causing me the weight issues.

Either that or it could just be water retention (I can feel my ankles swelling as I type!) :lol:

Anyway - I've got essentially 10 days left on this cycle. I end a week on Wednesday (17th July). With the way I'm feeling (incredibly lethargic and lazy now), as well as actually feeling quite rough and short of breath, I think these last 10 days might actually be quite testing. I'm going to take each day as it comes, the diet will be followed 100% (even binning off my lunchtime latte), and limiting the carbs absolutely as much as I can to keep the heat down.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 18, 19 and 20*
> 
> The heat this weekend has been punishing - trying to function normally with the kids and the mrs in 30+ degree heat was one of the less fun experiences of my life, I have to admit.
> 
> ...


It is a bit crazy that you are putting weight on. Must be the diabetes doing its thang.

You are only using 125mg per day?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> It is a bit crazy that you are putting weight on. Must be the diabetes doing its thang.
> 
> You are only using 125mg per day?


Yeah, only 125mg. I'm not worried about the 'weight gain' - it'll likely sort itself out over the next few days. I struggle a bit with bowel movements, for example, and I also retain quite a bit of water (particularly in my legs) so both of those are likely contributing factors.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Dont forget DNP causes water retention, its hot so your drinking more water

If your sugar is crashing, why stay on? What have you got to prove? get off, rebalance the water, sort ya sugars then go again in 10 days time


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Yeah, only 125mg. I'm not worried about the 'weight gain' - it'll likely sort itself out over the next few days. I struggle a bit with bowel movements, for example, and I also retain quite a bit of water (particularly in my legs) so both of those are likely contributing factors.


Lol, I dont poop on dnp either, then all of a sudden ill eat carbs and shoooooooooom, im a rake!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Lol, I dont poop on dnp either, then all of a sudden ill eat carbs and shoooooooooom, im a rake!


Haha this is something i was thinking about yesterday. I was thinking... carbs before training... squats... fart.... oh maaan!! ha!

Ive heard a couple of people say you get the ****s while on dnp and eating carbs


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@Madoxx - I think I'm kinda balanced again now. I'm having trouble with my sugars anyway due to the amount of weight I've lost over the last 14 months or so (insulin requirement is related to the patient's size). I'm off to the Diabetic Clinic on Friday, so going to try to rebalance things a bit.

As for the poop - the first time around, it was like turning on a tap. Now, notsomuch. :tongue:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

funkdocta said:


> Haha this is something i was thinking about yesterday. I was thinking... carbs before training... squats... *fart.... oh maaan*!! ha!
> 
> Ive heard a couple of people say you get the ****s while on dnp and eating carbs


I like to call this s shart! :lol:


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 21*

Yesterday was rough. I think with a combination of bad commutes, late nights 10 days in a row and DNP, I was feeling at a pretty low ebb. To the point that I decided to take the afternoon off work to recover.

Slept for a few hours, then went to the gym to do some cardio. Still felt rotten, so had an early night.

My blood sugars are now under control, and today I feel much better. Even though I still need to empty my bowels, I've dropped to 92.7kg.

I'm looking considerably more lean (I can now see the "outline" of my abdominal section), and the fat around my waist is much smaller. I have 8 days of DNP left, and the diet is flawless (and will remain so until the end). I don't think my spare tyre is going to disappear completely, unfortunately, but it will be reduced to a point where I'll be approaching happy to be seen without a top on.

Obviously I'll continue to lose weight for 7 days or so after the fact, so hopefully it'll get to a point where I'm where I want to be.

I've also taken to wearing a sports compression top for bed - weight loss that is this dramatic can cause problems with loose skin. This is (I believe) relatively standard practice after lipo procedures, so I thought I'd do it just in case. Probably makes sod-all difference, but gotta make sure all bases are covered!


----------



## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

How was your sleep last night? I went through 3 towels, and woke up smelly like a builders a$$ crack!

Poor sleep on DNP makes me moody and lazy, coffeee time


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> How was your sleep last night? I went through 3 towels, and woke up smelly like a builders a$$ crack!
> 
> Poor sleep on DNP makes me moody and lazy, coffeee time


I was so knackered that I crashed out. Had probably the best night's sleep I've had in a month! That said, I had had the bedroom curtains closed all day and had 2 fans on me all night... :thumb:


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 22*

After my massive sleep on Monday night, I felt much better yesterday. As ever during the week, my diet was flawless, and I took all my vits etc as required.

After work, I went to the gym, ran 5km in 29 minutes, then did a bicep and back workout, using a method described to me by @DiggyV. Off topic somewhat, but this made my muscles practically explode, even though I'm on DNP - I have big hopes for this beyond this cycle.

Expecting sizable weight loss this morning - nothing. 92.7kg - same as yesterday.

I'm quite surprised, to be honest. I am drinking a lot more at the moment, so again it could be water retention, but I guess I won't have the final answer to this until the cycle ends. Last day is next wednesday, so the final week begins today.

I still haven't achieved my goals, unfortunately. I'm currently considering what is the best path to take now. I was planning on starting a test-e cycle, but as I still have a majority of my fatty band still present, and the test-e cycle is 15 weeks long, I'm thinking it might be better to hold off for another round of DNP. I realise that test-e helps with weight loss too, but I don't know to what degree, and at this point in time, the belly fat is like a pock on the ass of a playboy model.

The weight I've lost so far (and this is without the weight I'll obviously lose once the water retention is sorted) is considerable. It currently stands at 18.7lbs (223lbs to 204lbs, 101.5kg to 92.7kg), and (according to that crappy body-fat measuring thing I've got), I've gone down to around 12% bodyfat, which looks legit.

I'm thinking I potentially have a problem with retaining weight due to being Type 1 Diabetic - although this is purely circumstantial. It's getting to a point now where I look like I'm around 10% bf, maybe lower, everywhere other than my abdomen. I can even feel the skin tighter around my ribs. When I did my chest workout on Monday, I looked at myself in the mirror post-workout, and I've literally got my pectoral muscles sitting on bone, covered by skin. My breast-bone is VERY obvious, so it's particularly annoying the speed at which the fat around my waist is disappearing. It's certainly gotten smaller - dropped by maybe 1.5 inches over the course of this cycle, but not coming off at anything like the rate of the rest of me. Honestly - I can see veins everywhere! :tongue:

I still have a week to go. At the moment, I'm thinking that the best cycle length may be 3 weeks, as I've seen little in the way of change since then. I also have to note that I don't feel anything like the sides I did when I first bought this batch of DNP (Dhacks), which I'm about through, so the next one will be with a new supplier - if I can find a legitimate one...


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Day 22*
> 
> After my massive sleep on Monday night, I felt much better yesterday. As ever during the week, my diet was flawless, and I took all my vits etc as required.
> 
> ...


The method's a killer isn't it, I did back the same way this morning, and the pump was immense. :thumb:

The test will help with the losses, however as you are looking to add some serious LBM when on cycle, then perhaps another run may do it. Remember that fat is lost uniformly (with the exception of some slight increase in long term adipose fat burning when using one and possibly two alpha stimulants) until there are surplus localised reserves and then those will be targeted. Another run may help, get you to the point where this happens. The only issue is that if you put any fat back on, then it is likely to come back to the waist first, or certainly you'll notice it that way.

Could some also be loose skin? I have this following my losses. And while not extreme, is enough to make any fat look a lot worse (in my opinion).

Keep plugging buddy, however they may come a point where pragmatism kicks in, and may be better to gain some more LBM, do the PCT, and then perhaps look at the remaining reserves after that.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> The method's a killer isn't it, I did back the same way this morning, and the pump was immense. :thumb:
> 
> The test will help with the losses, however as you are looking to add some serious LBM when on cycle, then perhaps another run may do it. Remember that fat is lost uniformly (with the exception of some slight increase in long term adipose fat burning when using one and possibly two alpha stimulants) until there are surplus localised reserves and then those will be targeted. Another run may help, get you to the point where this happens. The only issue is that if you put any fat back on, then it is likely to come back to the waist first, or certainly you'll notice it that way.
> 
> ...


Yes, mate - the workout is awesome! I was making stupid noises toward the end where I was desperately trying to bust out one more rep! Killer! 

The bit you mention about the fat loss all over is what I'm struggling with a bit, tbh - the losses elsewhere are significant and noticeable (to a point where the Mrs said, "You look 'smaller'" to me a week or so ago!), but any losses in the waist area certainly aren't so obvious. I'd have thought this would be the other way around? If you lose fat in areas where there wasn't much fat, it'd be less obvious than areas where there was a lot of fat? Maybe I'm just talking bollocks. 

As for the loose skin - this is a bit of an odd one, tbh. The area just above my waist (around my lower ribs, top abs) is getting to a point where the skin is drum tight. To a point I can *feel the tightness* as a breathe. The waist area is now loose, and it's almost certainly an element of loose skin, but I kinda feel that this would resolve itself were the fat not there behind it, if that makes any sense? I have olive/Mediterranean skin, with plenty of flexibility left in it, so once the fat is gone, I'd suspect that loose skin wouldn't really be an issue. Again, I might be wrong - this is all anecdotal.

In your opinion, do you think that the combination of a good diet, test-e and increasing LBM would likely see the results I'm after, or do you think I'm better sticking to my original plan of stripping all the fat, THEN building LBM?

Advice much appreciated, as ever!


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Yes, mate - the workout is awesome! I was making stupid noises toward the end where I was desperately trying to bust out one more rep! Killer!
> 
> The bit you mention about the fat loss all over is what I'm struggling with a bit, tbh - the losses elsewhere are significant and noticeable (to a point where the Mrs said, "You look 'smaller'" to me a week or so ago!), but any losses in the waist area certainly aren't so obvious. I'd have thought this would be the other way around? If you lose fat in areas where there wasn't much fat, it'd be less obvious than areas where there was a lot of fat? Maybe I'm just talking bollocks.
> 
> ...


I have been in your position, and have a similar skin type (looked lightly tanned even in Winter), and my choice was to add more mass, even with more tyre left than I wanted, and certainly more moob. Having then gone back to weight loss after that I seemed to look better after a small weight loss than I had before (or so I was told by those who have seen me with my top off - and its not that many :lol: ).

It maybe that a stint of more normal cals (plus a few extra on training days - I run my cals inline with my ACTUAL burned cals rather than running the same amount every day) with some test-e may actually reap more benefits long term than trying to be absolute about the waist line.

In the end it will be your decision about when you move from loss to mass, but make sure you have a break between the two.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

BigRedSwitch said:


> In your opinion, do you think that the combination of a good diet, test-e and increasing LBM would likely see the results I'm after, or do you think I'm better sticking to my original plan of stripping all the fat, THEN building LBM?
> 
> Advice much appreciated, as ever!


Im running AAS alongside DNP to try and prevent as much muscle loss as possible


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Im running AAS alongside DNP to try and prevent as much muscle loss as possible


Shhhh, or you know who will drop in and educate us all again....

I do too, however even without AAS, losses of LBM on DNP are less than just on straight diet for me. However trying to gain mass on DNP is really tough as you cant get the carbs into the muscle, that it needs to grow effectively.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Im running AAS alongside DNP to try and prevent as much muscle loss as possible


TBH, I'm a pretty big fella anyway. I'm not compromising at the gym, so I'm not too concerned about muscle loss. I just want to strip the fat right off first, then hit the test-e for gains to get me where I want to be.

I'm really too big to be doing multiple cycles of test-e. I'm 6'5" anyway, and a manager of people, so if I look like I could pick them up and eat them for my protein fix, it would be counter to my career goals.  My aims are more to build a "superhero" type physique - not one which makes me look like a pro BB'er. I referred to my whole weight-loss, re-sculpturing journey as "fatman to batman". 

Based on that, I'm hoping to get to the muscle build I want, with around 9% fat, then just want to work to maintain that. DNP may still play a part in that, but I don't want to be injecting test-e for the rest of my days...


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

But not like this guy: http://fatmantobatman.blogspot.co.uk/


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Without sounding crude, do u smell on DNP?

I showered this morning on waking, then did cardio, showered again, fresh clothes after each shower and I now stink!

Do you use antibacterial shower gel?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Without sounding crude, do u smell on DNP?
> 
> I showered this morning on waking, then did cardio, showered again, fresh clothes after each shower and I now stink!
> 
> Do you use antibacterial shower gel?


Do you use an anti-perspirant mate? I can get a bit whiffy on it, but this would normally be end of the day, but I do use an Anti-P, a straight deodorant is probably not going to be enough. The increased sweating, will give a great place for bateria to breed and make you pong. Wshing alone is probably not going to solve this for you.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Yeah, I can 'smell' myself (quite unpleasant), but I do my best to stay cool anyway, so it's only when I don't have access to a fan...! :tongue:


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Grabbed some of this just now;

http://www.auravita.com/product/Right-Guard-For-Men-Xtreme-Shower-Gel-Sport.SHEN11288.html?RefId=225&adid=SHEN11288

Only anti bacterial shower gel I could find, will report back!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Grabbed some of this just now;
> 
> http://www.auravita.com/product/Right-Guard-For-Men-Xtreme-Shower-Gel-Sport.SHEN11288.html?RefId=225&adid=SHEN11288
> 
> Only anti bacterial shower gel I could find, will report back!


Let us know  I really cant be doing with smelling bad.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 23*

Weight gain once again. Weight has risen to 93.1kg (increase of about 400g) - not much, but still irritating considering diet is perfect, working out like some kind of maniac etc.

I'm trying to ignore it and just look at the changes in the mirror, but obviously as I look every day, there's little perceivable difference.

I still stand by the fact that my experience of DNP this time feels different. Obviously I can't have grown tolerant to it, as it's fundamentally a poison...

I'm putting it down to water retention again - honestly, I'm gonna look like Christian Bale from "The Machinist" once all this water clears post cycle...! :tongue:


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I've only just now subbed to this thread. I'm also a DNP veteran so I'm well aware of what you're going through mate!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

You able to increase dosage bigred?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> You able to increase dosage bigred?


I was thinking the same thing. He is on 125mg and seems to have either hit a plateau or is holding more water. I think you should try bumping it up to 250 for a few days if it is viable and you can handle the sides.

although your difficulties way well be coming from being diabetic. I don't know of anyone else diabetic ever using it. Unless I've missed a review somewhere.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Ive been bllxd today, not much sleep, office all day without air con, completely drained........ did 12 hrs in work, then shopping

Went into slow mode, even makung a brew or getting water was slow


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> I was thinking the same thing. He is on 125mg and seems to have either hit a plateau or is holding more water. I think you should try bumping it up to 250 for a few days if it is viable and you can handle the sides.
> 
> although your difficulties way well be coming from being diabetic. I don't know of anyone else diabetic ever using it. Unless I've missed a review somewhere.


As far as I know, I'm the first type 1 to use the stuff. At least the first one to create a log to this degree. If you do a quick search for my previous thread (can't remember the title, but it had "type 1" in it!), you'll see what happened when I did increase the dose to 250mg.

Summary was - it was **** scary, and I thought I was actually going to die. It ended my cycle.

Read all about it!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

I increased my dose last cycle and got a bit panicky, even changed my phone home screen to a note saying what dose I was. Running in case I was found collapsed


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> As far as I know, I'm the first type 1 to use the stuff. At least the first one to create a log to this degree. If you do a quick search for my previous thread (can't remember the title, but it had "type 1" in it!), you'll see what happened when I did increase the dose to 250mg.
> 
> Summary was - it was **** scary, and I thought I was actually going to die. It ended my cycle.
> 
> Read all about it!


Was that down to you not being prepared for the sides? so they sort of hit you out of the blue? Maybe just stick with 125 then


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> Was that down to you not being prepared for the sides? so they sort of hit you out of the blue? Maybe just stick with 125 then


If they were manageable sides, I'd have been OK - these were to a point where the pressure in my head felt like I was going to have an aneurism, I could barely breathe, and felt incredibly sick.

See - this is the thing that is continually making me come back to doubting the quality of the remains of my current DNP batch; When I started the cycle, I could REALLY feel the sides - pressure in my head, heat, the sh!ts - all of it. Now, I barely notice. A bit of heat (particularly if I eat carbs), and smelly pee, but other than that, just lethargy.

Big issue now is that I have no other source for DNP. Since DHacks disappeared, everyone else seems to be out of it...


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

Although theres no hard evidence that it degrades, i still stand by my statement than when i used my dhacks lot for the second time (3 weeks after first opening) i used 500mg for 2 days and felt absolutely nothing. Where as i was sweating my jacobs off on 125mg 3 weeks prior.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

D hacks won't be long mate, check his site


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm ****ed this week on 250mg, last dose ran for 250 and ramped to 375

Sides are a lot worse this time round, the weather perhaps?


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## Dee11 (Jun 11, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> D hacks won't be long mate, check his site


Just seen your post... Thanks bro.... 3-7 weeks. Ggggggggggggreat!!!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> I'm ****ed this week on 250mg, last dose ran for 250 and ramped to 375
> 
> Sides are a lot worse this time round, the weather perhaps?


well its been pretty humid the past week or so, so you can be sure this will make the heat sides a lot worse.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dee11 said:


> Just seen your post... Thanks bro.... 3-7 weeks. Ggggggggggggreat!!!


Lets hope is 3 and not 7 haha summer will be over by then and everyone will be looking at bulking


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## Dee11 (Jun 11, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> Lets hope is 3 and not 7 haha summer will be over by then and everyone will be looking at bulking


Lets hope mate... It'll be like waitin for Santa coming wen your 5 lol


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dee11 said:


> Lets hope mate... It'll be like waitin for Santa coming wen your 5 lol


Im tempted to order loads and freeze them or something for next year haha


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Freeze? Just keep eealed


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## Dee11 (Jun 11, 2013)

Just_Bob said:


> Although theres no hard evidence that it degrades, i still stand by my statement than when i used my dhacks lot for the second time (3 weeks after first opening) i used 500mg for 2 days and felt absolutely nothing. Where as i was sweating my jacobs off on 125mg 3 weeks prior.


Mate, I'd the same prob,,had 2 tubs of 125 and used 1 and a few outta the other tub.. Stopped for my hols an starting 3-4 weeks later and def not the crazy heat an night sweats

So no wot your on about...

I'm from n irel an it's a heat wave here at mo,26-27 last week or so...DEF NOT DNP WEATHER!!!


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## Dee11 (Jun 11, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> Im tempted to order loads and freeze them or something for next year haha


Lol lo,if I new you could i would... As Maddox says,keep them sealed and outta sunlight...I think DIGGYV should give his in put with his knowledge


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Freeze? Just keep eealed


I think my humour was lost on you there


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> I think my humour was lost on you there


I wouldnt say lost, maybe "disguised" is a better word

Panicked today lads, thought i was gonna go to the big ole DNP god in the sky!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> I wouldnt say lost, maybe "disguised" is a better word
> 
> Panicked today lads, thought i was gonna go to the big ole DNP god in the sky!


Panicked over what? you getting bad sides?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> I wouldnt say lost, maybe "disguised" is a better word
> 
> Panicked today lads, thought i was gonna go to the big ole DNP god in the sky!


What happened, mate?


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/228396-madocks-summer-cut-8-5-weeks-left-till-holiday-3.html

Read yesterdays blog


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/228396-madocks-summer-cut-8-5-weeks-left-till-holiday-3.html
> 
> Read yesterdays blog


That was pretty much my experience when I was on my first cycle and took 250. Difference being I didn't forget to drink (my Mrs looks at me like I'm some kind of mutant I drink that much!).

I'm just steering clear of 250mg. I think 125mg over a longer period is far better for you...


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Do you boys eat much fruit?

Id be a lot happier on 125mg i think


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

Madoxx said:


> Do you boys eat much fruit?
> 
> Id be a lot happier on 125mg i think


I have ran 3 tubs of dhacks now at 250 in the winter starting at 22 stone now currently 16.5 stone had to cut a month run short because of the heat here today 30 degrees

gonna wait till this heat is over before i continue

but anyway got 3 tubs of dhacks left and great news him starting up again


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

But did you eat lots of fruit? I tested it today, and ive got a lot more energy


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> But did you eat lots of fruit? I tested it today, and ive got a lot more energy


I struggle with fruit - not because of the DNP, because of the Diabetes. The fruit is really high in Fructose (as well as calories!), so it tends to give me BGM spikes. Also, you don't get much for your 1500 cals!


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## Just_Bob (Feb 2, 2013)

6kg of strawberries is 1500 kcal!!!


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## Dee11 (Jun 11, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> I have ran 3 tubs of dhacks now at 250 in the winter starting at 22 stone now currently 16.5 stone had to cut a month run short because of the heat here today 30 degrees
> 
> gonna wait till this heat is over before i continue
> 
> but anyway got 3 tubs of dhacks left and great news him starting up again


Ok mate..was your dnp as potent over the time..as mine lost some of it power so to speak..took a break(hols) an 4 weeks later not as good.. You've lost alot of weight all with the dnp an working out.. How was your skin after that.. I lost few stone an with keto an dnp,I've a few to go started to get paranoid lol case I'd loose skin..

Thanks


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Days 24-28*

Sorry for the lack of updates to this. Work crazy busy at the moment.

My weight loss stalled altogether, last week. Que me standing, nekkid, looking confused at the numbers I was seeing on my scales. Not the highlight of my life, tbh.

Changed things up a bit for this last week. Training every day until Thursday (as usual), but changing my regimen a bit:

Using the new lifting techniques I learned from @DiggyV, followed by 5k cardio, Monday - Wednesday. Doing cardio after lifting is *brutal*. When you're knackered after trashing your muscles, the prospect of running quite fast for 1/2 an hour isn't an attractive one, I can tell you. On Thursday morning, I'll be swimming 1500m before work too.

Also added ECA to my cycle for this last week to squash my appetite entirely.

Results? Well, this morning I weighed in at 90.9kg (200.4lbs, 14 stone 4lbs). I still have a chunk of wobbly fat, but I'm hitting it hard this week in an attempt to squash it as much as possible. I'm also going to continue with the ECA during the first week post cycle to help with the hunger management.

As I've been unable to source another supply of DNP and DHacks still isn't up and running, after next week's period of convalescing, I'll be beginning a 15 week cycle of test-e bulking.

Due to my somewhat "odd" metabolism (being Type 1, it "doesn't really work" properly), I'm going to start at maintenance carbs, and build up from there. I'm hoping that the extra ferocity in the gym that test will give me, plus the fact I'll have more solid bulk behind the flabby bits will mean that, as long as I gain no more fat, it'll disappear.

I know this sounds retarded, but it's 2 months today until I turn 40. This doesn't actually mean anything to me other than a significant deadline I set myself to be in the best shape of my life. So far I've gone from 126.09kg (19 stone 12lbs) to 90.9kg (14 stone 4 lbs), a total weight loss of 5 stone 8 lbs or 35.19kg, and I'm a much more slender man than I've ever been before. I'm super irritated that I can see the muscles between my ribs, but still have a flabby bit around my waist - it's infuriating to say the least, but hopefully a huge increase in lean bulk will hide the "sins" a little better than they are being at the moment.

3 days to go, then the week to drain the water. You never know, I may even post some pictures.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Good progress made mate, sometimes stopping is good, a fresh change, a new look, im officially DNP free


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## MC-Racer (Mar 15, 2013)

ECA in my opinion is a lot better than T3, everyone says T3 is a must but in my experience T3 has never has had any effects on my energy levels and ECA helps with hunger as well, just had better results running it with clen.

I've run out of DNP now which I'm relieved with, so thinking of doing a mini bulk with VAR until the weather improves for DNP, a nice break from stims is also overdue after 3 months of stim use.

Gotta wait for DHacks is up and running as well as I can't find any Albion Synthesis anywhere which is what everyone seems to be using now.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> *Days 24-28*
> 
> Sorry for the lack of updates to this. Work crazy busy at the moment.
> 
> ...


Over 5st lost is no joke! Hitting a plateau is probably your body's way of just saying give me a rest.

Do what you said, put some lean muscle on (Tren+test would be best for this btw, plus Tren burns fat for fun) then hit the fat loss again at a later date.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

MC-Racer said:


> ECA in my opinion is a lot better than T3, everyone says T3 is a must but in my experience T3 has never has had any effects on my energy levels and ECA helps with hunger as well, just had better results running it with clen.
> 
> I've run out of DNP now which I'm relieved with, so thinking of doing a mini bulk with VAR until the weather improves for DNP, a nice break from stims is also overdue after 3 months of stim use.
> 
> Gotta wait for DHacks is up and running as well as I can't find any Albion Synthesis anywhere which is what everyone seems to be using now.


T3 should be taken to support the Thyroid, mate. I'm taking that as well. 

I'll be continuing with the ECA next week as the DNP drains from my system, but then I'll be off stims until probably November time. If DHacks is back online by then, I'll do another round of DNP.

I actually want to get out of cycling anything. I'm hoping with my test cycle, I'll get to a point that I'm happy with (as I've said before, I don't want to be a Big Bad BB'er!), then just do a cycle of each a year to "sharpen my game". :tongue:

I won't be using Tren, though. Pure Test I'm OK with (not too many sides, as it's naturally occurring), but knowing my personality and Tren, I suspect it wouldn't be a good combination. The sides also sound similar to DNP, but obviously as it's a long ester product, that means that you'd have to endure them for a lot longer than you would with DNP. If you get bad sides with DNP, you can stop, and once you're through that particular day, you'll probably be OK. Tren's half-life is a week, meaning it's a much bigger risk to take, IMHO. In addition, it's hepatoxic, so your liver gets a pummeling too - DNP is Liver and Kidney safe... 

Just test-e and adex for me.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> T3 should be taken to support the Thyroid, mate. I'm taking that as well.
> 
> I'll be continuing with the ECA next week as the DNP drains from my system, but then I'll be off stims until probably November time. If DHacks is back online by then, I'll do another round of DNP.
> 
> ...


T3 will just eat your muscle along with the fat. It is not needed unless your doing a prolonged run or high dosage. I never ever use T3 unless running AAS, its too catabolic.

Tren's half life is only as long as the ester you use. Test E and Tren E will have the same half life (Enanthate = 7 days). If you use Tren Ace the half life is 2 days.

Test E will likely bloat you like a bloon  Tren is the dogs bollocks. For the goals you seem to be seeking... fat loss and muscle... I would run 300mg Test Prop, 300mg Tren Ace and 300mg Masteron Prop (pin mon/wed/frid) You would drop a few % body fat, gain freaky amounts of strength and put on quality muscle.

Thats what i would do, but each to their own as they say. Some may find it hard to pin 3 times per week or eod  I will running test/tren/mast myself in the new year.

I think you have done a brilliant job losing 5st though mate, that is pretty epic.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> I think you have done a brilliant job losing 5st though mate, that is pretty epic.


Thanks, mate! 

My key issue with Tren etc is the hepatoxic nature of the stuff. I have enough stuff putting strain on my internals anyway  Plus I don't wanna get freaky big! :tongue:


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Great results mate, well done!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> T3 will just eat your muscle along with the fat. It is not needed unless your doing a prolonged run or high dosage. I never ever use T3 unless running AAS, its too catabolic.


This!!! I ran it for 12 days, didnt notice any benefit at all from using it

Test and Var combined should help loose weight and make muscle, Tren will strip the fat off you. However your cal defecit cant be too great or you wont make muscle gains.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

funkdocta said:


> T3 will just eat your muscle along with the fat. It is not needed unless your doing a prolonged run or high dosage. I never ever use T3 unless running AAS, its too catabolic.
> 
> Tren's half life is only as long as the ester you use. Test E and Tren E will have the same half life (Enanthate = 7 days). If you use Tren Ace the half life is 2 days.
> 
> ...


Hmm, some noice points in there, but one or two big misconceptions too... 

He is talking about running T3 with DNP, not AAS. On AAS you are on the money, not T3. :thumb:

Also T3 only eats muscle when used in excess. T3 is present in your body 100% of the time, the problem occurs when you add *extra* in. When on DNP the action of deiodinase is blocked, this converts T4 to T3, so you are lacking in T3 - the main metabolic hormone. What you need to do is add in enough to compensate and no more, and then stop a couple of days after your last DNP dose. IN this was you will NOT suppress your own thyroid production as you are only replacing what your body doesn't make, and hence you will not be catabolising muscle. If normal levels of T3 catabolised muscle, none of us would ever gain. 

Tren should always be used in conjunction with a test variant, ideally Test-E a blend. Ratio should be anywhere from 4:1 to 2:1 Test:Tren, so Test should always be higher. This is not just my preference, but also through talking to top level amateurs (UNiverse finalists) and pros this is what they run. Test should be used as the primary muscle gainer, Tren will help lean you out and keep the gains- possibly even add, and in your post above so will the masteron. Tren seems to have taken on an almost mythical quality, and while it is good, it is not a panacea. People run equal quantities of T:T:M as that is what you get in the form of OneRip or its clones. Personally, and when i prep people, I always have somewhere between 4:1:1 and 2:1:1 depending on the tolerance to the Tren sides.

As well as the backne, need to remember that Tren is one of the very few AAS that actually does affect your mood. It can turn the most pleasant of people (me for example! :lol: ) in to a snappy MoFo, where Test doesn't, so need to consider what BRS does for a job also. If it is supervisory in anyway, then tren is probably not a great choice. :lol: Bear in mind this is his first course. There is no way it should be anything other than Test. Additional compounds are overkill (other than maybe a dianabol, turinabol kicker).

People only bloat on Test (as you point out the E is irrelevant as is only the ester) because their diet is wrong - calls too high and electrolyte balance screwed. I only run test (TT400) now (having normally run Test and Tren - but the backne from Tren is too hideous for me) and lean out nicely on test only, and still am doing so.

For a second or third course then the TTM is a good choice, although I would only really use that for any of the people I have prepped in a cutting cycle, Test or Test + Tren for adding serious mass.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> This!!! I ran it for 12 days, didnt notice any benefit at all from using it
> 
> Test and Var combined should help loose weight and make muscle, Tren will strip the fat off you. However your cal defecit cant be too great or you wont make muscle gains.


Yeah I agree with this. Tren really is the daddy of AAS and can do amazing things. The most common sides are increased sweating (you should be used to this haha) trouble sleeping and aggression. Running Tren Ace for a week would tell you whether you are good on it or not. A lot of guys burn fat even above calorie maintenance because its is actually that good haha.

I have love hate relationship with test though, i hold water on it like a camel. I can easily put on about half a stone of water weight over a long cycle and look like the marshmallow man. The effects once you come off and run a proper pct are good though.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> Hmm, some noice points in there, but one or two big misconceptions too...
> 
> He is talking about running T3 with DNP, not AAS. On AAS you are on the money, not T3. :thumb:
> 
> ...


A lot of people are running Tren higher than test these days or at 1:1. It is believed this actually reduces the sides of Tren as opposed to amplifying them with higher test. This is all bro science though of course


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> It can turn the most pleasant of people (me for example! :lol: ) in to a snappy MoFo, where Test doesn't, so need to consider what BRS does for a job also. If it is supervisory in anyway, then tren is probably not a great choice. :lol:


Trust me. I'm an angsty bastard at the best of times, so being in charge of 130+ people and having my anger hormones stoked wouldn't be a good thing at all... :tongue:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

funkdocta said:


> A lot of people are running Tren higher than test these days or at 1:1. It is believed this actually reduces the sides of Tren as opposed to amplifying them with higher test. This is all bro science though of course


I know mate - as I said Tren has taken no this mythical status. And so people just stuff huge amounts of it in :lol:

Best results always come from intelligent use of these things.

The test doesn't amplify anything. Test on its own actually has a calming effect TBH. Roid rage from Test alone is a myth. It actually has a stabilising effect. I am much more placid with normal or higher levels. When it is low (my natty level is very bad - I am much snappier). Add tren in and I can believe roid rage - well a little bit.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> I know mate - as I said Tren has taken no this mythical status. And so people just stuff huge amounts of it in :lol:
> 
> Best results always come from intelligent use of these things.
> 
> The test doesn't amplify anything. Test on its own actually has a calming effect TBH. Roid rage from Test alone is a myth. It actually has a stabilising effect. I am much more placid with normal or higher levels. When it is low (my natty level is very bad - I am much snappier). Add tren in and I can believe roid rage - well a little bit.


I think it all depends on the individual from personal experience. I always got a little snappier on Test but nothing out of the ordinary and only i seemed to notice. Same with tren to be honest, the one thing i did notice with tren is the focus and aggression in the gym.

Im a very laid back person so I seem to be fine. If you are highly strung its probably not the best thing to do


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## bayaga (Feb 24, 2012)

@BigRedSwitch - How's the issue with the stubborn tummy fat going? Some time ago you mentioned that the top half seems to be shrinking disproportionately to the bottom half.

I'm on a DNP cycle myself as well. Been on for 2 weeks and going to go on for another 2, hopefully more provided hacks returns from the shadows. I seem to lose fat around the waist much more so than my thighs and glutes, meaning I currently have to wear a bigger waist size just to fit the legs which gives me an odd "hula-hoop" like look around the waistband.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

bayaga said:


> @BigRedSwitch - How's the issue with the stubborn tummy fat going? Some time ago you mentioned that the top half seems to be shrinking disproportionately to the bottom half.
> 
> I'm on a DNP cycle myself as well. Been on for 2 weeks and going to go on for another 2, hopefully more provided hacks returns from the shadows. I seem to lose fat around the waist much more so than my thighs and glutes, meaning I currently have to wear a bigger waist size just to fit the legs which gives me an odd "hula-hoop" like look around the waistband.


Im the opposite, where you gain weight the first, is where you loose it the last. For me its belly and moobage


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Madoxx said:


> Im the opposite, where you gain weight the first, is where you loose it the last. For me its belly and moobage


ditto :cursing:


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

bayaga said:


> @BigRedSwitch - How's the issue with the stubborn tummy fat going? Some time ago you mentioned that the top half seems to be shrinking disproportionately to the bottom half.
> 
> I'm on a DNP cycle myself as well. Been on for 2 weeks and going to go on for another 2, hopefully more provided hacks returns from the shadows. I seem to lose fat around the waist much more so than my thighs and glutes, meaning I currently have to wear a bigger waist size just to fit the legs which gives me an odd "hula-hoop" like look around the waistband.


It is coming off, mate. It isn't going to disappear on this cycle, but much of it could be somewhat loose skin now. If I tense my abs, and prod myself in the stomach, previously my finger would "sink" by around an inch. At the moment (and bear in mind I have 3 days to go, and then a week to get rid of retained water), it's more like 2cm at the flabbiest bit. I actually think my ab muscle area curves outward as opposed to being perfectly flat, so hopefully with some test and a lot of hard working out, this will resolve the situation.

I have olive skin - no wrinkles, and look like I have a suntan in the dead of winter. No stretch-marks on my stomach at all, so I'm hoping that over the coming months and the increase in lean bulk, it will eventually flatten out. I suspect this won't be before my 40th, which was my aim, but even with your best laid plans, you can't overcome physical limitations - regardless of what drugs you take!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

RS4 said:


> I dont know how you guys are running dnp in this heat.
> 
> I have 10 d hacks tabs left, im looking to run eod but this heat is making me dip as it is..


What you need to do is go into holland and barrets and get hold of some mtfu suppliments 

Nah, its brutal in this head mate, went outside to see a neighbour for about 4 mins earlier and soaked a top


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Days 29 and 30*

Not much to report in at the moment, tbh. Been working out using my new regimen, but the weight-loss has well and truly stopped. Have felt quite bloated over the last few days, but think that could be a combination of Psyllium Husk and water retention. Was in an interview with The Guardian yesterday and felt very sweaty, but didn't know if that was just due to the ambient temperature.

I'm getting a bit tired of this run now. Thankfully, tomorrow is the last day, and that's the end of my current supply. Whilst I do feel like the change in my exercise pattern has given me bulk improvements, these have been marred by the fact that I recover so slowly. It's Thursday today, and I can still feel muscle aches from my workouts on Monday and Tuesday. Yesterday, after doing legs, I just couldn't face doing another 5k run, so once I'd finished, I just went home. Aches still there this morning, so bailed on the 6am swim too. I'm not proud of that, but with the lethargy and the aches, not exactly inspiring to give it the big 'un on the cardio...

So, nearly done. Losses so far are significant:

Start weight: 15 stone 13lbs (223lbs, 101.3kg)

Current weight: 14 stone 3.9lbs (199.9lbs, 90.7kg)

Total losses (to date): 1 stone 9.1lbs (223.1lbs, 10.6kg)

Now, a few things to bear in mind here:

1) I don't think 15 stone 13lbs was accurate for my start weight. I say this as I'd literally just gotten back from LA, and I retain a lot of water during trans-atlantic flights. I'd give a more reasonable estimate of around 15 stone 6lbs.

2) I've still got a day to go, and I'm holding a lot of water (I can feel my ankles swelling as I type). The weight MAY go a bit lower, but obviously I am expecting SOME weight gain due to my muscles re-filling with Glycogen.

I'm feeling flat, and very, very lean. Aside from my ever present (but significantly smaller) fat band around my waist, I'd say I was very close to 10% bf now. Maybe 11-11.5% at most. That's a rough eye estimate, though. I can practically pick out individual veins in my arms, and I can see that there's no viceral fat around my rib areas either. My legs are much leaner, and I'm starting to see decent definition on my thighs (although they're probably the worst part other than my stomach - this may be scar tissue from years of insulin injections, however).

I'll be keeping up this log over the next week or so. I'm not stopping the stims entirely - in an effort to control my appetite, I'll be continuing with ECA for the next week before starting the test-e cycle. I'll do the weigh-ins over the next week to give you all an insight into the come-down post cycle too.

I'm still not convinced that the remains of my DHacks stash had stood the test of time, unfortunately - based on the chemistry of DNP, and the fact that (in the most part), my diet was on point or even below what I planned, there's no way to get used to it. In other words, however you react to it, physically, the first time you take it, the effects should remain consistent whenever you take it. This wasn't the case with this run. I was hoping to get down to around 85-85kg, with all the fat stripped (5 week cycle), but that hasn't happened. In fact, the last 2 weeks (at least) have been a struggle to push the weight down, and I'm had to work ever harder at the gym (when this was VERY difficult on the DNP) to achieve much smaller losses.

As any of you who've followed this blog will know, next up (starting Monday 29th) is a Test-E cycle for 12-15 weeks. I'm trying to make the mental shift into "gaining mode" after 14-15 months of cutting, but post this cycle, I'll be doing another run of DNP - hopefully by this point our friend Mr. DHacks will be back in business and our standard supplies will be back in action.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Woo! Silver member! ;-)


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

I started last night, don't know what all the fuss is about I'm not hot.... Haha! If only it stayed this way 

I will probably start a log this weekend


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Congrats on silver mate 

and awesome new funkdocta it arrived then, are you prepared


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Congrats on silver mate
> 
> and awesome new funkdocta it arrived then, are you prepared


Yeah very prepared. Fans ready, mosquito nets up so I can open all windows of a night haha! When does the heat kick in? on 250mg btw


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Prob not first night, may notice a little bit dehydrated on morning pee, second night your dnp will be at 407mg so youll prob sweat a fair amount, third night you will hit 507mg, and thats when your on it 

After 8 nights youll top out near 660mg, I ran 375mg for a few days and got to 900+ in my system, that was warm  others have gone a lot higher.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Day 31 and Day 32 - The End*

Well, that's it, folks!

I've exhausted my supply of DHacks finest. Was almost a little sad to be throwing away my little, empty white tub, but it's now gone to the great trash-can in the sky. 

To be honest, I'm glad it's over. Not been the best run, for certain. The lack of continued progress did my head in, and the spotty sides didn't help. Toward the end it's been really tough to motivate myself, but I've kept it up, and now the fun bit begins.

As I said before, I'm hitting ECA right now to help with appetite control over the next week or so, before I switch to my light building diet on the Test-E.

I'll be tracking my weight over the next few days to see what happens as the stuff drains from my system, but in all honesty, I'm only expecting minor changes. After I drove back to Surrey last night, my feet were swelled like balloons, though, so perhaps I'm underestimating the amount of weight I am holding as water.

My belly fat is thin now. I actually think most of it is loose skin, so I'm hitting it up with toners and cocoa butter (am about to order some Unprocessed Organic Shea Butter too). I'm also trying to find information about subcutaneous L-Carnitine injections which are (apparently) useful for spot losses of difficult to hit fat areas. Won't be doing this until I get to a point where I'm happy that there's some science behind it, though.

I have some trepidation about tomorrow, however. My wife has had a day with her family organised for about 8 weeks now - it's a day out on the beach in Bournemouth. Obvious problem being that there's a heat-wave at the moment (severe weather warnings for heat in the South East!), so I'm hoping that I'll be OK as long as I avoid the carbs and keep chugging the water. She has epic timing, my Mrs... :tongue:

Back on topic, probably the toughest thing about DNP is the way it affects you, physically. I'm a pretty determined, driven fella, but the motivation is battered. In addition, your recovery times are utterly shocking - I've been working on new training techniques (for me) from @DiggyV, and the last time I did arms was Tuesday - friday today, and my arms are still wrecked. It'd normally only take me a day or so to recover fully.

DNP is great stuff. Really. Regardless of what anyone might tell you, it strips fat better than diet and exercise alone EVER could. I genuinely think that once I run another cycle (post test-e and PCT), I'll be sub 10%, and be looking pretty sharp.


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## bayaga (Feb 24, 2012)

@BigRedSwitch Congrats on the end of your 2nd run mate!

You mention that this time round the progress had started to slow down - have you considered upping the dose, perhaps for the 3rd cycle?

I think on the thread on your 1st cycle you said you hit a size 32" jeans, at 6 ' 5" I think that's impressive. What jean size are you now?

Also, visually are your abs showing now?

Sorry for all the questions heh but I'm trying to evaluate my own progress on my DNP cycle. I'm currrently size 30" and can see a blurry six pack. I reckon if I can continue with a fresh supply of DNP for 30 more days I should be pretty ripped.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

bayaga said:


> @BigRedSwitch Congrats on the end of your 2nd run mate!
> 
> You mention that this time round the progress had started to slow down - have you considered upping the dose, perhaps for the 3rd cycle?
> 
> ...


Thanks, mate! 

I didn't drop further jeans sizes - kinda supports my statement that I'm around 11% body fat now.

Due to the skin/remaining fat around my waist, what I actually see as far as abs go is the "abs wall", if you know what I mean? The side area (to the left and right of my abs, immediately below my ribs) is VERY sunken now, I can see all of my ribs, and the solid shape of my abs, with definite muscle shape in between the centre section of my ribs. That said, everything looks flatter in general, so maybe in a week or so, once the glycogen has returned and the water has drained I'll be able to see more.

In short, aside from that band around my waist, there's so little fat left that I'm looking boney!

I suspect that once I get onto the Test-E, the abs will pop out. I'll be giving them a lot more attention then... 

To help get rid of the loose skin, I've ordered some Unrefined Organic Shea Butter, which is supposed to be great for tightening up loose skin. I'm practically going to be bathing in the stuff! I also heard that there was an anti cellulite treatment (can't remember the name) which is supposed to be brilliant (used by pro BBers for competitions), but it's very difficult to get hold of. I've also been looking into localised fat reduction (L-Carnitine, for example), but it's got a whiff of snake oil about it...

Patience is the key, I reckon. I'll post up some pix of how things turn out as I end the cycle entirely (probably a week on Sunday, before test-e on Monday).


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## bayaga (Feb 24, 2012)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Thanks, mate!
> 
> I didn't drop further jeans sizes - kinda supports my statement that I'm around 11% body fat now.
> 
> ...


Wow it looks like you're pretty damn ripped! Yeah from what you've said it seems to be just loose skin holding the abs back.

Good luck with the cocoa butter! If all else fails there's always skin reduction surgery - thank God for modern medicine


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Thanks, mate!
> 
> I didn't drop further jeans sizes - kinda supports my statement that I'm around 11% body fat now.
> 
> ...


I think you may be referring to Thoimucase. 

L-carnitine:Localised fat reduction:snake oil - only way is Lipo..... You can get some marginal targeting with one particular alpha stim, but is is low percentages different from overall.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> I think you may be referring to Thoimucase.


Exactly right.  tough stuff to get hold of - and very expensive for what it is.

Don't suppose you know of any 'generic' brand, do you?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Exactly right.  tough stuff to get hold of - and very expensive for what it is.
> 
> Don't suppose you know of any 'generic' brand, do you?


There wasn't really any other than the Pharma. Very niche, and now people don't tend to use it. Back in the day you could smell it in the prep room at shows. That and the odd person trying to stop the Synthol and blood leaking out of a pinhole in their bicep where they had 'topped up'. :lol:

@BigRedSwitch How about this bad boy!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-THIOMUCASE-MEN-STICK-BELLY-ABDOMINAL-75ml-/200912689062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec75457a6


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> There wasn't really any other than the Pharma. Very niche, and now people don't tend to use it. Back in the day you could smell it in the prep room at shows. That and the odd person trying to stop the Synthol and blood leaking out of a pinhole in their bicep where they had 'topped up'. :lol:
> 
> @BigRedSwitch How about this bad boy!
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-THIOMUCASE-MEN-STICK-BELLY-ABDOMINAL-75ml-/200912689062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec75457a6


Are the effects permanent or just temporary for a show?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

bayaga said:


> Good luck with the cocoa butter! If all else fails there's always skin reduction surgery - thank God for modern medicine


Ha! Unfortunately the budget won't stretch that far! I'll get there (my skin will sort itself out - I have olive skin; it's just a case of keeping the weight off).


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> Are the effects permanent or just temporary for a show?


They're not permanent - my take on it would be to just keep doing it until my skin tightened up. Kinda the same as the Cocoa butter etc, just more visually effective in the short term...


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> There wasn't really any other than the Pharma. Very niche, and now people don't tend to use it. Back in the day you could smell it in the prep room at shows. That and the odd person trying to stop the Synthol and blood leaking out of a pinhole in their bicep where they had 'topped up'. :lol:
> 
> @BigRedSwitch How about this bad boy!
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-THIOMUCASE-MEN-STICK-BELLY-ABDOMINAL-75ml-/200912689062?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec75457a6


Well, I'll give it a go! Purchased! :tongue:


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Just get on the growth, fill your belly with growth hormone abs and tighten up the skin


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Just get on the growth, fill your belly with growth hormone abs and tighten up the skin


Is that your physique, mate? Very impressive!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

haha, looks like a turtle, not me mate


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

funkdocta said:


> Are the effects permanent or just temporary for a show?


Not 100%. It is supposed to work, so I guess semi-permanent, until you over eat again. :lol:


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## bayaga (Feb 24, 2012)

@BigRedSwitch

This might interest you:



> Most cases of loose skin are actually just cases of excess subcutaneous body fat covered by skin. And because subcutaneous fat is "soft" fat, it is looser and easier to confuse with skin. It droops and jiggles and the skin that surrounds it conforms to its shape. That's not to suggest that legitimately loose skin isn't a real problem, because it is. But I would wager that many if not most cases of loose skin can be explained by overly stubborn deposits of subcutaneous fat.
> 
> Stubborn fat is actually a real thing. As Martin Berkhan explains, adipose tissue is full of alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. A-2 and b-2 receptors are the major lipolytic receptors in adipose tissue, meaning they interact with the catecholamines (adrenaline and noradrenaline) to cause stored body fat to release. B-2 receptors are associated with "easy fat," or fat that burns off easily. A-2 receptors are associated with "stubborn fat," or fat that's harder to burn. All adipose tissue has both a-2 and b-2 receptors, and the higher the b-2:a-2 ratio, the easier it is to burn the fat. The lower the ratio, the more stubborn the fat. Belly fat has a notoriously low b-2:a-2 ratio, which is why it's usually the last to go (especially for men). If your belly fat is stubborn, it may resemble loose skin even as the rest of your body has mostly leaned out.
> 
> ...


So basically, the Paelo diet guys suggest that "loose skin" may not be loose skin after all, rather that a small layer of stubborn subcateneous fat that has been left. Like you, I'm trying to get my set of ripped abs back, since that's what the ladies love!  DNP has been causing me to lose the pounds at a rapid pace so I hope I don't end up with any loose skin myself. Although, I've only got about 7kg left to lose before being "ripped".


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> @Rick89 - the remnants of my last d-hacks supply, mate.
> 
> @Dr Gearhead - 6'5", 220lbs, around 15%bf. Type 1 diabetic, so slow metabolism. I don't get hungry on DNP anyway, but will be supplementing with psyllium husk to stop any hunger that does arise.
> 
> After my last DNP run, I've stripped a lot of fat - this is an effort to get rid of the last ****ty bit around my waist...


im also type one diabetic. interested in who/where you found studies that say we have a slower metabolism due to diabetes? not saying your wrong but naturally like to learn from others more about my condition.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Inapsine said:


> im also type one diabetic. interested in who/where you found studies that say we have a slower metabolism due to diabetes? not saying your wrong but naturally like to learn from others more about my condition.


Sorry, man - that's me 'simplifying' things a bit. There are a number of factors at play here:

1) Age - I'm 39, just about to hit 40. Despite my skin being in good shape, my metabolism is slower just due to my advancing years.

2) Lifestyle - I've been cutting for around 14 months, which gives you a lower basal requirement for food anyway. I always considered myself a mesomorph, but with the way I'm dieting, I'm more like an endomorph (from the ability to gain and lose weight perspective) these days.

3) Type 1 diabetes - Insulin makes you gain weight. The best thing I've done to help me lose weight is basically cut down my insulin intake by limiting my carbs!  If you're on "standard" t1 control, you're taking an analogue insulin in the evenings, and a fast acting one during the day, correct? That being the case, you're actually taking much more insulin than you would be if you were on an insulin pump, just due to the insulins being used. I was on Ultratard and Humalog, and my doses (at nearly 20 stone, though) were 40 units ultratard at night, and between 18 and 24 units 3-4 times a day for food. Now on the insulin pump, I ONLY use humalog (which is a better insulin anyway), and my basal usage of insulin is 23.37 units per day, with my food on top. My insulin vs food ratio is 7.0:1, meaning for every 7.0 carbs, I need 1 unit of insulin. So, for 70 carbs (a standard sized meal from 'the real world'), I'd be looking at 10 units of insulin instead of the 24+ I'd have previously been using.

The net result of this is that it simulated an endomorphic nature. This wasn't helped by the fact that insulin intake in the first place is based around body-mass, so it became a vicious circle of weight gain.

Bit of a generalisation, but the effects were essentially the same as having a slower metabolism.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

bayaga said:


> @BigRedSwitch
> 
> This might interest you:
> 
> So basically, the Paelo diet guys suggest that "loose skin" may not be loose skin after all, rather that a small layer of stubborn subcateneous fat that has been left. Like you, I'm trying to get my set of ripped abs back, since that's what the ladies love!  DNP has been causing me to lose the pounds at a rapid pace so I hope I don't end up with any loose skin myself. Although, I've only got about 7kg left to lose before being "ripped".


Yeah, I totally agree with that - that's why I was undecided as to wether or not to do another DNP cycle, or move onto Test-E. I think my bod may need a break from the weight loss, though, unfortunately...


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Sorry, man - that's me 'simplifying' things a bit. There are a number of factors at play here:
> 
> 1) Age - I'm 39, just about to hit 40. Despite my skin being in good shape, my metabolism is slower just due to my advancing years.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that, I originally thought you ment the fact u used a artificial insulin had an effect on metabolism. Anyway good luck with ur cycle not my sorta thing tbh


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Inapsine said:


> Thanks for that, I originally thought you ment the fact u used a artificial insulin had an effect on metabolism. Anyway good luck with ur cycle not my sorta thing tbh


Takes all kinds, mate.


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

if u wanna cut ur insulin in take down, i found hiit or weights first thing best for boosting metabolism and imprving insulin ratio. Dont know how you will respond though were all different


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Inapsine said:


> if u wanna cut ur insulin in take down, i found hiit or weights first thing best for boosting metabolism and imprving insulin ratio. Dont know how you will respond though were all different


In general, lifting causes the blood sugar to rise, cardio makes it drop. I basically try to split my workouts down the middle in an attempt to balance it so I can avoid having to take correction doses for lifting alone. Odd anomaly, but true whether you're t1 or not!


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

*Post Cycle days 1 & 2*

Saturday was bad. My Mrs had arranged a family trip to the beach with her folks and her sister's family, so on my first day off cycle, I ended up on a beach exposed to 25 degree heat. I armed myself with 4 x 2 litre bottles of water, and found myself as much shade as I could.

Then, problems - blood sugar CRASHING. To a point that I got quite scared about it (bear in mind that I've been diabetic for 36 years at this point) - glugged an entire bottle of lucozade, ate loads of chocolate, kids sweets, the works. It just kept dropping. Finally, after what must have been around 1500 cals, I got it stabilized at around 6mmol.

We all then went to dinner, and I had a fair sized meal (salad, 3x chicken breasts cooked in 3 different ways, ice-cream desert). All in all, about another 2000 calories.

Now, with my size, the total of around 3500 cals is actually supposed to be around 700 above maintenance, but in real terms, I think it's about 1500.

Safe to say that when I weighed myself on Sunday morning and I'd gone from 90.7kg to 93.4kg, I wasn't best happy.

I've had REALLY bad water retention too. My ankles look like footballs - I did expect things to be calming down, but it looks like its taking longer to leave my system than I'd originally expected. My current blood level of DNP is a rather pathetic sounding 58.28mg now, so I guess this could be a cross-over point of the glycogen returning to my muscles and the water retention hanging around - the next week or so will tell, I guess.

The fat has remained the same - it's very thin around my waist now, and I'm considerably more slender than I was. Am planning on doing around 15k on the treadmill this week to keep with the weight loss, and of course, getting the weights as high as possible.

I'm also trying to work out the best diet for my bulk, beginning next week. I'm looking to hit around 2300 cals with a correct macronutrient split, so I can get lean gains. If I'm not gaining any fat, I'll be pushing this higher over the following weeks. My key problem with BB diets is that the online ones all have TONNES of different foods (blueberries, cottage cheese, salmon etc etc) - there just isn't time in my life for all of that! I want simple stuff like "eat a can of tuna at 4pm" - it doesn't need to be exciting - until I get to where I want to be, it's just fuel! 

I'm off to try out a new gym this evening. Limiting my diet significantly today in order to try to get everything back on track, so another update tomorrow.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

You should see my diet mate, it's all pre made and frozen, eg today.......

Breakfast 5 weetabix with milk

10am, 4 rice cakes and peanut butter

1 pm - a Tupperware tub of rice and spag Bol, I made 10 of these and froze them, microwave 90 secs and eat

4 pm same as 3pm

7pm - evening meal meat and veg, this you have to cook

10pm, protein shake with milk

So a bit of prep on weekend freezing spag bols etc but once done the only cooking I do is evening meal


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

What is rice like after being frozen?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> You should see my diet mate, it's all pre made and frozen, eg today.......
> 
> 4 pm same as 3pm


 :lol:


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

BigRedSwitch said:


> In general, lifting causes the blood sugar to rise, cardio makes it drop. I basically try to split my workouts down the middle in an attempt to balance it so I can avoid having to take correction doses for lifting alone. Odd anomaly, but true whether you're t1 or not!


Cardio fasted or not? If i do fasted hiit bloods will be up about 2.5mmol so usually take 2 units on empty stomach. I used to find lifting raised my bloods but not a noticeable amount usually in the puke zone so starts draining blood sugar too lol


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

YummyMummy said:


> What is rice like after being frozen?


****, i use the micro rice by tilda, 1 min to warm, so simple


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

BigRedSwitch said:


> :lol:


Ooops, 4 pm is same as 1pm


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

So here's my diet for lean bulking. I've posted this in the diet forum too, but figured it's worth doing it here:


*Cals**Carbs**Protein**Fat*2 x Fried Egg1850.812.614Hovis Granary Toast8415.33.40.8Lurpak Lightest540.10.162 x Chicken Breast2200404Tuna x 22540611.12Impact Protein x 2196339.23.42 x Chicken Breast2200404Tenderstem Brocolli703.68.81.8Pesto22732.722.7Muller Lite Cherry507.93.90.1KP Jumbo Nuts - 100g5901027.649Dairy Milk - thin bar110121.66.3Impact Protein x 2196339.23.4Lighter than Light Mayo222.60.21*Totals*257663.8299.9119.32*Macro Split (%)*13.21%62.09%24.70%

The weight has stabilized after the DNP at just under 94kg. I'm keen to keep the weight off, so I'm killing myself at the gym, but appreciate that I need the best diet possible to bulk. I'm trying to avoid carbs as much as possible (carbs+type1 diabetes = fat), hence the balance of the diet.

Trying to stick with low GI foods (with the exception of the chocolate, but that was to try to increase fat, and give myself a break from the constant protein!)

Any feedback much appreciated.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

How did you calculate the cals? Im on maintenance at 80k weight with 2.7k cals,

Whats the jumbo nuts? if they are peanuts, get rid and get almonds in there, or cashews / maccedamias 

Chocolate!!! my sin is curly wurlys, they are 115 calories per bar 

Doesnt seem to be a lot of food there, personally I would remove the whey and use meat, I find the meat far more satisfying at controlling hunger than a shake

Have you looked at almond milk? its really low in calories etc and enables me to drink tea/coffee, I also have this in whey if I have the odd shake


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Sorry for the lack of updates - my daughter has been taken into hospital. Nothing too serious, but it's kinda caused some ripples in my life which have somewhat defocused my posts on here. 

Since stopping the DNP and starting the test (I'm not a week in yet, so I'm not sure that's relevant), I appear to have gained 3kg. I've been keeping to a reasonably low diet, but I'm trying to ramp back up to maintenance and beyond for my bulking stage. Feeling wobbly around my belly, though...  Current weight is 93.7kg.

I'm pretty sure a majority of the weight gain is due to glycogen building back into my muscles. I'm feeling fuller than I was before (looking less scrawny - I hate that about DNP!), and looking forward to some good gains with the test.

@Madoxx - good tips on the food; I didn't realise Cashews and Macadamias were better than peanuts? I actually prefer both of them to peanuts anyway!  As for how I calculated them - just used online tools for working out BMR. There's a great Excel sheet kicking around by a guy called Michael Elias which helps you work out macro splits and all that, so I've been using that extensively.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Sorry for the lack of updates - my daughter has been taken into hospital. Nothing too serious, but it's kinda caused some ripples in my life which have somewhat defocused my posts on here.
> 
> Since stopping the DNP and starting the test (I'm not a week in yet, so I'm not sure that's relevant), I appear to have gained 3kg. I've been keeping to a reasonably low diet, but I'm trying to ramp back up to maintenance and beyond for my bulking stage. Feeling wobbly around my belly, though...  Current weight is 93.7kg.
> 
> ...


Hope your daughter is ok mate. How long you planning on bulking?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> Hope your daughter is ok mate. How long you planning on bulking?


Thanks, mate - it's nothing to worry about, but I've had to come back from work in the North West to Surrey to ferry wife and kids backward and forward to hospital and childminders yada-yada. 

I'm planning on bulking for probably 12 weeks. I'd like to think I'll be doing 15, but I don't think I'll be able to get all of the test out of the vials! :tongue:


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Thanks, mate - it's nothing to worry about, but I've had to come back from work in the North West to Surrey to ferry wife and kids backward and forward to hospital and childminders yada-yada.
> 
> I'm planning on bulking for probably 12 weeks. I'd like to think I'll be doing 15, but I don't think I'll be able to get all of the test out of the vials! :tongue:


Its a skill getting it all out  To think our problem is usually getting it in


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

I still think 2.3k for a bulk is too low  No idea how diabetics work tho


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> I still think 2.3k for a bulk is too low  No idea how diabetics work tho


Especially seeing as though he is what? 90+kg? and lean? 2300 would be a deficit for sure?

As you say though, not sure if the diabetes has anything to do with it.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

@Madoxx and @funkdocta - I'm looking to ramp this up, just a bit at a time.

There's a lot of talk about "starvation mode", but what this is, in real terms, is a drop in the efficiency of your metabolism. In studies I've read, over the course of a long cut, it can drop by 40%. Bear in mind, I've been cutting for 14+ months, and it's easy to see that I may be at this point.

Whilst I am 'lean', I still have the wobbly bit around my stomach. What I want to see is a further cut in fat, and a build in muscle. I'm hoping to get to around 3k cals, but continuing the fat loss. This will be principally based around the diet I outlined above.

Update today - after my 5k run (new record - 5.16km in 25.44), and a sizable bowel movement (!), I'm back down to 92.6kg. Weight gain since end of DNP is around 2kg, but obviously I'm gaining glycogen as the DNP drains.

Interesting observation - even with VERY low doses of DNP (yesterday I was at around 24mg), I was still getting some sides. A little heat on eating carbs, and urine smelling of asparagus if I hadn't drunk much water. In other words, just because these sides are present, doesn't mean you have enough DNP to be effectively losing weight. That could add some fuel to the fire regarding the under-dosed DNP discussed in Funkdocta's thread...


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Glad im not the only one gaining weight after DNP 

I was under the impression that teh water retention plus glycogen refill would still mean a net loss after the week is out. I am 1 lb heavier than the day I stopped DNP


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah I had the same, even whilst teh DNP flushed out, I was still sweating whilst eating and having to sleep on top of covers etc. Does take a while to fully get out doesnt it.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Glad im not the only one gaining weight after DNP
> 
> I was under the impression that teh water retention plus glycogen refill would still mean a net loss after the week is out. I am 1 lb heavier than the day I stopped DNP


Well, the way I'm looking at it is that Glycogen is heavier than water!  Plus, of course, we've already been working out, so (and this is purely "pub science"), it may be the case that our bodies can retain a greater amount of Glycogen versus the amount of water it retains. Also, don't forget that water retention can fluctuate, and as DNP stays in your system for a long time (by all accounts) there may still be some extra H2O in your system at the moment. 

It's all a balance, isn't it? I'm quite happy to have only gained about 4.4lbs since stopping - means I've lost > 7kg in total (101kg was my start weight, IIRC).


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

In addition, I'm now on test.

Which causes water retention.

*sigh* :tongue:


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

First time jabbing? how did it go


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

BigRedSwitch said:


> It's all a balance, isn't it? I'm quite happy to have only gained about 4.4lbs since stopping - means I've lost > 7kg in total (101kg was my start weight, IIRC).


Over what time scale did you loose that 7kg?


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Madoxx said:


> Over what time scale did you loose that 7kg?


First time jabbing - the anticipation was worse than the event. I know how to inject anyway due to being Type 1 for 36 years, but the size of the needles was... somewhat *bigger* than I was used to! :tongue:

I was wrong with the 7kg - it was 8.7kg (19.14lbs), so I've gained 1.9kg (4.18lbs). That was over just under 5 weeks. That said, as I've written in this journal, I don't think my DNP was in as good a condition as it was when I bought it - the sides were nothing like as strong, and I coped OK with the weather...

Once the test cycle is out of the way, I'll be doing the DNP again - with a fresh supply; hopefully from DHacks...

Has anyone ordered any from Klona yet?


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Has anyone ordered any from Klona yet?


I have mate I got 2 tubs of superdrol and 1 tub dnp

yet to try em though


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> I have mate I got 2 tubs of superdrol and 1 tub dnp
> 
> yet to try em though


Let us know how they are, mate - interested to see if they're legit. Seems to be a lot of bunk on the market (a market that's limited anyway) since that stupid article in the paper...


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## Dee11 (Jun 11, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> I have mate I got 2 tubs of superdrol and 1 tub dnp
> 
> yet to try em though


Iv also ordered. Dnp an t3.plenty good stuff on there site. Lets hope there g2g an stay about for long time. An stay safe!!!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> I have mate I got 2 tubs of superdrol and 1 tub dnp
> 
> yet to try em though


Interested to know how you think the DNP are, make sure you let us know.


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## ebasiuk1 (Jul 22, 2009)

stevieboy100 said:


> I have mate I got 2 tubs of superdrol and 1 tub dnp
> 
> yet to try em though


let us know mate as soon as

tempted myself


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

superdrol came next day still waitin on dnp said to be here around wed/thurs but i wont be running it for a while but ill put up pics when it comes if you want


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

stevieboy100 said:


> superdrol came next day still waitin on dnp said to be here around wed/thurs but i wont be running it for a while but ill put up pics when it comes if you want


Why buy UG Superdrol when you can buy it from various places legally?


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

MrLulz said:


> Why buy UG Superdrol when you can buy it from various places legally?


Because I want to try them and its my money my choice


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

stevieboy100 said:


> Because I want to try them and its my money my choice


Fair enough. Just seen others the same and always wondered why.


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

MrLulz said:


> Fair enough. Just seen others the same and always wondered why.


well its not a clone and its the original raw (supposedly) and ive never ran it before just the clones just wanted to see the diff and of course to test the source


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

Ah okay.


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