# Bulking assisted vs natty



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

What amount of weight gain do you aim for when on cycle vs what you would aim for if bulking naturally?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

For natty 1-1.5lbs a month lean and 5/6lbs assisted


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> For natty 1-1.5lbs a month lean and 5/6lbs assisted


Always read as a natty 1 to 0.5lbs a week?


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Ryker said:


> Always read as a natty 1 to 0.5lbs a week?


.... will get u fat.


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## averagejoe95 (Apr 13, 2015)

yeah i put on around 10kg in a month as a natty when i first started seriously but was mostly just fat. slow and steady wins the race


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## INTP (Mar 30, 2015)

Ryker said:


> Always read as a natty 1 to 0.5lbs a week?


maybe if noob gains but those that have been lifting a year or more will not gain 1lb of quality weight in a week. You can expect to gain 1lb a week with oral only cycle, good solid gains that are mostly muscle we are talking about.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Ryker said:


> Always read as a natty 1 to 0.5lbs a week?


26-52lbs a year?

Think about it pal


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

5grams a month natty


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> 26-52lbs a year?
> 
> Think about it pal


You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though. Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is.

Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Ryker said:


> You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though. Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is.
> 
> Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


To get your hopes up. Only for them to be crushed!!!!

If your just starting out you may add a few extra pounds but not someone that's been gyming it for a while


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Ryker said:


> You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though. Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is.
> 
> Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


To get your hopes up. Only for them to be crushed!!!!

If your just starting out you may add a few extra pounds but not someone that's been gyming it for a while


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Ryker said:


> You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though. Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is.
> 
> Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


Steroids


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

FelonE said:


> 5grams a month natty


lmao


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> Steroids


That old shortcut for the idle. Oh dear


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Ryker said:


> That old shortcut for the idle. Oh dear


You won't get to where you want without them. Took me about 8 years to realise this. Unless your one of the lucky ones with great genetics!!!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Ryker said:


> That old shortcut for the idle. Oh dear


For someone under weight, untrained and happens to nail diet and training perfect and they have great genetics ,20lbs in their first year is not unbelievable. But that would rapidly diminish in the following years


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Ryker said:


> Always read as a natty 1 to 0.5lbs a week?


depending how advanced you are, some aim for that much per month lol (natty)


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ryker said:


> You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though. Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is.
> 
> Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


Some places may say that, but not everywhere. It's more of an old school bulking approach, which I would suggest the majority here view as seriously sub-optimal.

I struggle to believe that anybody training naturally for a year gained 56 lb of weight where the majority (>28 lb) is muscle. It categorically is not the norm.

I would suggest that your own experience is also far more in line with simonthepieman's suggested numbers.

You should also bear in mind that the majority of regular posters here probably use steroids (or some form of PEDs), although I don't. They are more than just a shortcut though - there are limits to what can be achieved naturally and to go beyond this requires assistance.


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

FelonE said:


> 5grams a month natty


flol

why have i decided to be natty  feelsbadman


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

SkinnyJ said:


> flol
> 
> why have i decided to be natty  feelsbadman


Think he means 500g


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ryker said:


> Think he means 500g


It was a joke...


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Ryker said:


> You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though. Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is.
> 
> Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


Realistically, you might put on an average of 0.5lbs a week a week in your first year. After that, it all slows RIGHT down. After 2 years you'd have to be doing everything right to put on 1lb of muscle per month.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ryker said:


> You see people put a good amount of size on in a year though.* Not saying it's all muscle but the majority is. *
> 
> Plus why everywhere does it state 0.5 to 1lbs a week?


No it isnt, natty you will be lucky to gain 5lbs of lean tissue in a year if you have already been training a while.

Where does it say a lb a week?


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

banzi said:


> No it isnt, natty you will be lucky to gain 5lbs of lean tissue in a year if you have already been training a while.
> 
> Where does it say a lb a week?


The Top 10 Rules Of Successful Clean Bulking! - Bodybuilding.com


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

@Ryker what rate did you gain weight during your last bulk, when I think you'd agree you gained rather too much fat?


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> @Ryker what rate did you gain weight during your last bulk, when I think you'd agree you gained rather too much fat?


I did but most of how you gain is down to genetics


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Ryker said:


> I did but most of how you gain is down to genetics


Most is down to correct diet, training and resting.

The rest is then genetics


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

G-man99 said:


> Most is down to correct diet, training and resting.
> 
> The rest is then genetics


Even with all that, someone can do the exact same workout and diet and not gain as much due to genetics


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ryker said:


> I did but most of how you gain is down to genetics


What's the answer to the question though?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ryker said:


> Even with all that, someone can do the exact same workout and diet and not gain as much due to genetics


Agreed. Which is why I don't think giving rate of weight gain targets is helpful.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Ryker said:


> Even with all that, someone can do the exact same workout and diet and not gain as much due to genetics


Yes but the majority of them gains will come from the correct diet, training and resting protocol.

Mediocre effort results in mediocre gains.


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> What's the answer to the question though?


All just a estimate shown with studies obviously


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ryker said:


> The Top 10 Rules Of Successful Clean Bulking! - Bodybuilding.com


Oh brother.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ryker said:


> All just a estimate shown with studies obviously


The question was at what rate did you gain weight during your bulk?


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

banzi said:


> Oh brother.


Oh you're one of those guys!

Now I get it. :whistling:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Ryker said:


> The Top 10 Rules Of Successful Clean Bulking! - Bodybuilding.com


What a load of tosh. I saw the "to keep your gains lean, aim for 0.5-1lb of bodyweight per week" and thought, well this is obviously aimed at complete beginners. Then I saw the recommendation for 1.5x BW in lbs protein recommendation, which IMO is only useful for those using drugs that increase protein synthesis, and I realised the writer is just a fool.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

1 lb a week is too much, 0.5-0.75 is acceptable imo depending on so many variables.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Ryker said:


> Oh you're one of those guys!
> 
> Now I get it. :whistling:


Bodybuilding.com for advice?

They want to sell you tubs of weight gain and fart powder .


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

When they say 1lb a week on a bulk they don't mean expect 1lb a week of muscle gains... It's just a rule of thumb, for a calorie surplus.


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Do nattys still exist?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

lewdylewd said:


> Do nattys still exist?


Yes


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

> Yes


So was your Tbol thread just a troll? Or do your buddys in the nutrition section not know about that dirty little secret


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

lewdylewd said:


> So was your Tbol thread just a troll? Or do your buddys in the nutrition section not know about that dirty little secret


What you going on about......? nutrition section?? Read the thread and you will see.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Not that it makes any difference but there are plenty of people here who are natty, particularly people who are relatively new to lifting.


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Yes I know it was a tongue in cheek comment i didn't really believe everyone who lifts weights takes steroids.


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

To bulk aas a needed, when done keep yourself natty for three months on maintenance or even lowering 200ish your kcal intake... then bulk again on AAS... and so on....


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> Yes I know it was a tongue in cheek comment i didn't really believe everyone who lifts weights takes steroids.


Only the ones making gainz


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

lewdylewd said:


> Yes I know it was a tongue in cheek comment i didn't really believe everyone who lifts weights takes steroids.


I know :wink: . I suspect that natties are in the minority on forum so I thought someone who is should at least post something! My brain was too frazzled by the heat to come up with anything witty sadly.


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## NX1977 (Jun 7, 2014)

lewdylewd said:


> Do nattys still exist?


Natty here, and proud to be in the minority these days.


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.

You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

lewdylewd said:


> Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.
> 
> You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


Holy 5hit where did that come from... mg:


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.
> 
> You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


 @banzi


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.
> 
> You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


Lol oh dear


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Dafuq


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> Dafuq


Another ignorant bellend


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

lewdylewd said:


> Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.
> 
> You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


Hahaha! Brilliant.

People "roided" up will work harder than a natty during a cycle, why wouldn't they want to make the most of the assistance the hormones offer?

Moon face, acne, deca dick are for the uneducated who don't take the necessary precautions. You can't tarnish all users with that brush.

Being on cycle makes you train harder, eat better and recovery quicker.

Very ignorant post.


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## NX1977 (Jun 7, 2014)

lewdylewd said:


> Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.
> 
> You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


What I do see in my gym is the assisted folk using heavy weights and poor form, yet still making gains (and probably only making gains) because they're assisted and necking supplements by the bucket load whilst posing for that instagram pic.

Some of the poor form on squats is ridiculous. One guy dips about 3" and does a funny hip wiggle. It certainly entertains everyone


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Let's not do this again, it's too hot to argue over nothing...


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

NX1977 said:


> What I do see in my gym is the assisted folk using heavy weights and poor form, yet still making gains (and probably only making gains) because they're assisted and necking supplements by the bucket load whilst posing for that instagram pic.
> 
> Some of the poor form on squats is ridiculous. One guy dips about 3" and does a funny hip wiggle. It certainly entertains everyone


That's your gym


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Has anyone actually read my post I taken steroids myself and experience none of the listed symptoms.

What i was implying was the guys who are "closet roiders" also tend to be uneducated and hence get the worst sides making their denials even more hilarious.

Please read my posts before calling me ignorant or a belling etc.


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Has anyone actually read my post I taken steroids myself and experience none of the listed symptoms.

What i was implying was the guys who are "closet roiders" also tend to be uneducated and hence get the worst sides making their denials even more hilarious.

Please read my posts before calling me ignorant or a bellend etc.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> Has anyone actually read my post I taken steroids myself and experience none of the listed symptoms.
> 
> What i was implying was the guys who are "closet roiders" also tend to be uneducated and hence get the worst sides making their denials even more hilarious.
> 
> Please read my posts before calling me ignorant or a belling etc.


You belling


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> Yeah I begrudgingly respect those who put in all the hard work and don't feel the need to "cheat" with roids. I personally couldn't stand to work 5 times as hard as some lazy uneducated **** for the same results.
> 
> You definitely deserve more respect than those ****s who are roided up to their eyes but swear on their lives they're nattys, unless you are actually one of those guys  (not that I advertise my steroid use in RL but you know the guys I mean "honestly this moon face, chronic acne, deca dick, and enlarged left ventricle is all natural")


Can you see deca dick?


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Can you see deca dick?


Op does when they drop their boxers


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

troponin said:


> Op does when they drop their boxers


Moves their thong to the side


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

Wtf was that all about :confused1:


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> Can you see deca dick?


Can you see someone's left ventricle?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> Can you see someone's left ventricle?


I would never leave myself open for some wise ar$e to pick my post apart 

So why quote them as things that are visible on a fake natty?


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> I would never leave myself open for some wise ar$e to pick my post apart
> 
> So why quote them as things that are visible on a fake natty?


I would have thought you could post with a little sarcasm or tongue in cheek without people reacting as if I'd said the popes a Muslim. Unfortunately it seems not.

Also I didn't anywhere quote them as visible. By the way I hope everyone is aware that just because we can do our best to minimise these side effects they do still exist, so even if my tongue wasn't firmly in my cheek there would be nothing ignorant about mentioning them. To think that you are untouchable and your not doing yourself any damage just because you take an AI or get the odd blood test is ignorant.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ah come on folks give the lad a break, he's trying to out do me....lol

And yeah, its all true though :tongue: :laugh:


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

> Ah come on folks give the lad a break, he's trying to out do me....lol
> 
> And yeah, its all true though :tongue: :laugh:


Haha thing is I'm not even a natty preacher I use steroids. I was just mocking fake nattys.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

lewdylewd said:


> Haha thing is I'm not even a natty preacher I use steroids. I was just mocking fake nattys.


Yeah I know mate lol

I don't peach either but I do like to use it to bash people when needed once in a while lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

lewdylewd said:


> I would have thought you could post with a little sarcasm or tongue in cheek without people reacting as if I'd said the popes a Muslim. Unfortunately it seems not.
> 
> Also I didn't anywhere quote them as visible. By the way I hope everyone is aware that just because we can do our best to minimise these side effects they do still exist, so even if my tongue wasn't firmly in my cheek there would be nothing ignorant about mentioning them. To think that you are untouchable and your not doing yourself any damage just because you take an AI or get the odd blood test is ignorant.


Yes likewise. You saying how to spot a fake natty. So you wouldn't be able to see deca dick etc...

Lots of people dont even know what AI is.

Who has said anything about being untouchable in this thread? It is about making educated decisions, weighing up the risk vs reward factor, dependant on your goals.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

> Yeah I know mate lol
> 
> *I don't peach either* but I do like to use it to bash people when needed once in a while lol


You what?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> You what?


Are your eyes painted on?


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## UlsterRugby (Nov 16, 2014)

I'm assisted on 750mg test and I aim for 2-4lbs a month any more is fat and water


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> Yes likewise. You saying how to spot a fake natty. So you wouldn't be able to see deca dick etc...
> 
> Lots of people dont even know what AI is.
> 
> Who has said anything about being untouchable in this thread? It is about making educated decisions, weighing up the risk vs reward factor, dependant on your goals.


That was my point the fake nattys are the ones who usually know the least about gear they are taking, hence leaving them more open too sides.

Well the people who think it's ignorant to consider the side effects of steroid use obviously think they are untouchable if they go t!ts every time someone mentions the POSSIBLE sides.

If it's about weighing up risk + reward why can't anyone bring up sides, no matter what the context, without getting flamed to death, because "this guy (who by the way also admits to using gear) who thinks steroids have sides is obviously an ignorant bellend".


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