# Comment on This Routine!!



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Monday :-

Flat Bench :- 531 with two down sets

OHP :- 5*10

Barbell Rowing :- 5*10

Tuesday :- OFF

Wednesday :-

Deadlift :- 531 with two down sets

Back Squats :- 5*10

Hamstring curl :- 5*10

Thursday :- OFF

Friday:-

OHP :- 531 with two down sets

Flat Bench press :- 5*10

Lat pulldown or pullovers :- 5*10

Saturday:-

Front Squats :- 531 with two down sets

Deadlifts :- 5*10

Legs extension :- 5*10

Sunday :- OFF


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Looks like BBB example. I've used it a bit in my routine but I do add extra volume for a more hypertrophy workout after the initial 5/3/1 lift.

Any reason for front squatting 5/3/1 rather than the usual back squat you're doing on deadlift day? I'd be inclined to switch 5x10 back Squat with Front squat and have the 5/3/1 for back squat.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ross1991 said:


> Looks like BBB example. I've used it a bit in my routine but I do add extra volume for a more hypertrophy workout after the initial 5/3/1 lift.
> 
> Any reason for front squatting 5/3/1 rather than the usual back squat you're doing on deadlift day? I'd be inclined to switch 5x10 back Squat with Front squat and have the 5/3/1 for back squat.


 My back feels great on front squats, much better control over the weight, neutral lumbar. Therefore, from all those points, thought of doing less rep range work on front squats rather than back.

In above routine, i would be doing total of 15 sets excluding warm up sets in one session, i felt adding more work for hypertrophy would take a lot of toll.

In between, would you suggest cutting out the number of sets after 531 lifts and down sets and adding variety of exercises?


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> My back feels great on front squats, much better control over the weight, neutral lumbar. Therefore, from all those points, thought of doing less rep range work on front squats rather than back.
> 
> In above routine, i would be doing total of 15 sets excluding warm up sets in one session, i felt adding more work for hypertrophy would take a lot of toll.
> 
> In between, would you suggest cutting out the number of sets after 531 lifts and down sets and adding variety of exercises?


 The way I set it up with the 4 days was pretty much an upper lower split, the volume was fine to handle over 4 days I just didn't like squats and deads on the same days.

I did try adding more work after the 531 lift such as First set last for 3x10 and that was too much with the extra exercises.

Now I follow push pull legs and start with the 531 on main compound, then onto the rest of my normal routine. Strength is flying up again (ohp is just used as assistance exercise on push day)


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ross1991 said:


> The way I set it up with the 4 days was pretty much an upper lower split, the volume was fine to handle over 4 days I just didn't like squats and deads on the same days.
> 
> I did try adding more work after the 531 lift such as First set last for 3x10 and that was too much with the extra exercises.
> 
> Now I follow push pull legs and start with the 531 on main compound, then onto the rest of my normal routine. Strength is flying up again (ohp is just used as assistance exercise on push day)


 When doing PPL with 531, You don't do OHP 531 on of the push session?


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> When doing PPL with 531, You don't do OHP 531 on of the push session?


 Nah ohp is always after bench. If you check my log recently my numbers are getting back up.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

@Mingster, Your views would be highly appreciated


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

What are down sets out of interest? Are they drop sets where you'd max out with normal weight and then take some off and do another set, more off do another or something different?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

superdrol said:


> What are down sets out of interest? Are they drop sets where you'd max out with normal weight and then take some off and do another set, more off do another or something different?


 Down Sets consist of two sets

Down Set 1 :- Repeating your second working set for the same number of reps.

Down Set 2 :- Repeating your First working set for AMRAP


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> @Mingster Your views would be highly appreciated


 It looks pretty good tbh. Volume and frequency look fine and there's a effective exercise choice.

There's a couple of changes I would make personally, but that's only my opinion...

Firstly I don't OHP. I would replace these with 3 sets each for Rear and Medial Delts.

Secondly I would replace Leg Curls/Extensions with GHR if you have access to one.

It's just the way I would do it. There's nothing wrong with your version.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ross1991 said:


> Looks like BBB example.


 this

its an excellent routine though, i put on some great size and strength running it with the opposing lift as the BBB set

another way to get in extra volume with 531 is to do first set last and as an AMRAP 
thats what ive been doing and works great particularly on the 531 week where youre only doing 9 - 12 reps on your 531 sets for the main lift

so for instance today i did OHP and it went

65kg x5, 75kg x5, 85kg x5 and then first set last is 65kg again AMRAP'ed after your top set AMRAP


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

swole troll said:


> this
> 
> its an excellent routine though, i put on some great size and strength running it with the opposing lift as the BBB set
> 
> ...


 I like the simplicity of it but I always feel I need some direct work ie biceps and triceps, then I add more delt work, calves etc and before I know it I got a big upper lower routine again haha.

I do like the 5/3/1 though, I'm currently using in my ppl split.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ross1991 said:


> I like the simplicity of it but I always feel I need some direct work ie biceps and triceps, then I add more delt work, calves etc and before I know it I got a big upper lower routine again haha.
> 
> I do like the 5/3/1 though, I'm currently using in my ppl split.


 yes defo needs some extra iso stuff thrown in for a bulk

5/3/1 is my favorite routine and ive ran it for years, reason being is its just a template for the barbell lifts and Wendler encourages people to program their assistance based on their needs, he only threw the templates out for people that wanted it all laid out


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

swole troll said:


> yes defo needs some extra iso stuff thrown in for a bulk
> 
> 5/3/1 is my favorite routine and ive ran it for years, reason being is its just a template for the barbell lifts and Wendler encourages people to program their assistance based on their needs, he only threw the templates out for people that wanted it all laid out


 Yeah my first lift is always 5/3/1 on the big compound at moment and my strength is improving.

I didn't like squat and deadlifting on same days though, but wanted to with hitting the other 3 big lifts twice a week.

Only other issue from a bbin point of view I thought was on bench and ohp days you are doing some back work, then potentially the next day deadlifting. Even though people class deadlifts as a lower exercise it hits your back hard, so I wasn't sure if this would effect back development much?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ross1991 said:


> Yeah my first lift is always 5/3/1 on the big compound at moment and my strength is improving.
> 
> I didn't like squat and deadlifting on same days though, but wanted to with hitting the other 3 big lifts twice a week.
> 
> Only other issue from a bbin point of view I thought was on bench and ohp days you are doing some back work, then potentially the next day deadlifting. Even though people class deadlifts as a lower exercise it hits your back hard, so I wasn't sure if this would effect back development much?


 you can always do a close variant like squat and then 4inch block pulls or RDL's then on your deadlift day you can follow it with pause or front squats

id always do the lower day first as its more taxing and requires more focus

doing back work the day after deadlifts is absolutely fine but the other way around when you might be doing barbell rows where you are isometricly holding your back and hams in a fixed position will likely take away from your DL ability the following day

also due to the amount of weight youre holding your lats are being worked pretty heavily with the DL
laurence shalaei actually ruptured his lat off the bone deadlifting just to put in perspective






watch his right lat as he begins to pull


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Would add some face pulls or something to monday and friday


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

swole troll said:


> this
> 
> its an excellent routine though, i put on some great size and strength running it with the opposing lift as the BBB set
> 
> ...





Ross1991 said:


> Yeah my first lift is always 5/3/1 on the big compound at moment and my strength is improving.
> 
> I didn't like squat and deadlifting on same days though, but wanted to with hitting the other 3 big lifts twice a week.
> 
> Only other issue from a bbin point of view I thought was on bench and ohp days you are doing some back work, then potentially the next day deadlifting. Even though people class deadlifts as a lower exercise it hits your back hard, so I wasn't sure if this would effect back development much?





Sphinkter said:


> Would add some face pulls or something to monday and friday


 Hows this

Push 1 :- Flat Bench 531 with down set, OHP 4*10, Pec dec 3*12, Lateral Raises 4*12

Push 2 :- OHP 531 with Down set, Flat Bench press 4*10, Pec dec 3*12, Lateral Raises 4*12

Pull 1:- Chest Supported rows 4*8, Lat Pulldown 4*12-15, Barbell rowing 4*15, Rear delt work 4*12

Pull 2 :- Chest Supported Row 4*8, Pullover 3*8-12, One Arm rowing 3*8-12, Rear delt work 4*12

Legs 1 :- Front squats 531 with down sets, Deadlift 4*10, Leg press 4*15, Legs extension 3*10

Legs 2 :- Deadlift 531 with down sets, Back squats 4*10, Leg press 4*15, Hamstring curl 3*10


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Jordan08 said:


> Hows this
> 
> Push 1 :- Flat Bench 531 with down set, OHP 4*10, Pec dec 3*12, Lateral Raises 4*12
> 
> ...


 i think it looks good

personally i would have at least one of the pull days starting with barbell or dumbbell rows but again thats just my personal preference, overall youve got all angles nicely covered

the only other thing is on legs 1 those deadlifts could end up burying you after the front squats and with a second deadlift day each week it could become very taxing over time and hard to progress on your 531 sets of deads

id consider replacing it with stiff leg deadlifts, RDL's or even double overhand deadlifts where your grip will be the limiting factor in how much you are able to tax the low back


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

swole troll said:


> i think it looks good
> 
> personally i would have at least one of the pull days starting with barbell or dumbbell rows but again thats just my personal preference, overall youve got all angles nicely covered
> 
> ...


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

absolutely fine to put in a hamstring curl instead of the deadlift on "legs 1"

particularly since your goals are physique based rather than powerlifting where movement specificity is more important

that routine will serve you nice, just make sure you are deloading

doesnt need to be every 3 weeks, Wendler addressed this in beyond 531 and pushed it forward to every 2 training cycle you deload 
i personally tend to go 3 training cycles but also autoregulate it (if im feeling shitty and JUST hitting my reps then i deload) i have gone as long as 12 weeks on 531 without a deload but i was heavily enhanced at the time


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

swole troll said:


> absolutely fine to put in a hamstring curl instead of the deadlift on "legs 1"
> 
> particularly since your goals are physique based rather than powerlifting where movement specificity is more important
> 
> ...


 Perfect. Till now, i have done 6 cycles of 531 but with different exercise selections on accessories. And found the same with reference to deload. So, what i am doing was deloading after two mesocycles i.e after every 6 weeks. I wish i could do something in between like after 4 or 5 but i fear i would wreck the whole program.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Jordan08 said:


> Perfect. Till now, i have done 6 cycles of 531 but with different exercise selections on accessories. And found the same with reference to deload. So, what i am doing was deloading after two mesocycles i.e after every 6 weeks. I wish i could do something in between like after 4 or 5 but i fear i would wreck the whole program.


 yes stick to the 2 cycles mate, you willl mess up the process if you start splitting up lifts intensity

if you feel you are running low just hit the required reps, ive just finished dieting and last week i knew if i AMRAPed my earlier sets in the week i wouldnt be able to hit my latter ones or the following weeks due to accumulative fatigue

also if youre feeling really low on gas drop the back off set and pick it back up after your deload

this is the beauty of 531, its not cookie cutter, you apply what you specifically need and autoregulate where needed


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

swole troll said:


> yes stick to the 2 cycles mate, you willl mess up the process if you start splitting up lifts intensity
> 
> if you feel you are running low just hit the required reps, ive just finished dieting and last week i knew if i AMRAPed my earlier sets in the week i wouldnt be able to hit my latter ones or the following weeks due to accumulative fatigue
> 
> ...


 Understood. Thanks a lot mate. Cheers!!


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Mingster said:


> It looks pretty good tbh. Volume and frequency look fine and there's a effective exercise choice.
> 
> There's a couple of changes I would make personally, but that's only my opinion...
> 
> ...


 We don't have GHR equipment but i saw a video how you can do it without this piece of equipment. Tomorrow is my lower session day, will do instead of hams curl. Have heard lot of people swear by it rather than curls.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

@swole troll thinking of another bbb slight variation myself.

Wondering how you'd follow the progression on the assistance 5x10 weight wise?

Ie bench press day I'd be doing:

Bench press - 5/3/1 + some sort of FSL

Ohp - 5x10

Seems people suggest going off a percentage of training max for the 5x10 (which I'd assume is the final figure used for your 5/3/1 which is 90% of your 1rm?)

If so how would you suggest progressing, weight will naturally go up after your 4 waves based on strength progression on that lift but would you hit the same weight for the 4 waves or taper it?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ross1991 said:


> @swole troll thinking of another bbb slight variation myself.
> 
> Wondering how you'd follow the progression on the assistance 5x10 weight wise?
> 
> ...


 What does FSL here means?


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Jordan08 said:


> What does FSL here means?


 Just the first set last one of the options offered for a little more hypertrophy to the main lift.

Id probably do an AMRAP set of first lift.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ross1991 said:


> @swole troll thinking of another bbb slight variation myself.
> 
> Wondering how you'd follow the progression on the assistance 5x10 weight wise?
> 
> ...


 5x10 @50% of training max for first wave

60% second wave

70% third wave

Deload

Repeat above based off new training max


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

swole troll said:


> 5x10 @50% of training max for first wave
> 
> 60% second wave
> 
> ...


 What if someone would fail in doing third wave for 5 sets of 10?. Let's say if it goes something like

Set 1 *10

Set 2*9

Set 3*8...

Does it mean TM was overestimated or it can happen?


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

swole troll said:


> 5x10 @50% of training max for first wave
> 
> 60% second wave
> 
> ...


 Ouch that week 3 must be tough. When I did it I didn't actually follow progression like that on the main accessory, I ended up treating it as I would my sets, if I hit 5x10 I'd up weight, such a good way to crash and burn after a few runs.

Ill follow it this way when I go back to it.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Jordan08 said:


> What if someone would fail in doing third wave for 5 sets of 10?. Let's say if it goes something like
> 
> Set 1 *10
> 
> ...





Ross1991 said:


> Ouch that week 3 must be tough. When I did it I didn't actually follow progression like that on the main accessory, I ended up treating it as I would my sets, if I hit 5x10 I'd up weight, such a good way to crash and burn after a few runs.
> 
> Ill follow it this way when I go back to it.


 this is a more aggressive approach and if you are failing reps on assistance then just stick to the 5x10 at 50% 
if you are enhanced and eating in a hefty surplus id definitely go for the progression i listed above

every single set isnt always about maximal stimulation despite what some people might think 
there is something to be said for movement practice and partial stimulation allowing for full recovery and progression on the meat and potatoes of the program (the 531 sets)

EDIT -

sorry guys i wrote that out in the gym

i meant cycle by cycle

so you go up by 10% of your training max each full mesocycle

first full mesocyle you are using 100kg as your training max that means on your BBB sets for that lift you do 50kg for 5x10 for the first whole meso
next cycle you do 60kg for 5x10 then finally 70kg for 5x10, deload then when you start over you do 50% of your NEW training max for 5x10 and repeat

fwiw i personally just run 5x10 at 50% of TM for the full meso then workout my new training max and 50% of that for the next meso


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

youll be able to find more online if you look up Wendlers boring but big 4 month competition


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

swole troll said:


> youll be able to find more online if you look up Wendlers boring but big 4 month competition


 I use an android app. Brodin 531.

It calculates load for 531 and next compound lift as well.

I think it is calculating in a same way you suggested (50% for full cycle and then increasing it another cycle)

@Ross1991, Try brodin 531 app on play store


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## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

good to find out how you find this. I am experimenting with this set up during this bulk so I work on the 4 week cycle and run it 60% first week 70% Second 80% third and to failure the final week. however my rep ranges change on the lifts so I will generally do 3-4 sets x 12-15reps first phase, 3-4 x 10 reps second phase 3 x 4 sets x 8 reps third and 2-3 all out sets x 4-6 reps. just trying it out and I am enjoying it so far.


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