# Phil Heath "proposed" cycle



## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Reading around and found this, wondering if you guys believe if this is accurate or just some crazy internet bullS**t


WeekTestosteroneAnavarWinstrolHGHInsulin12000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day22000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day32000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day42000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day52000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day62000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day72000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day82000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day92000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day102000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day112000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day122000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

that looks like my next cycle


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## guvnor82 (Oct 23, 2011)

could of saved yourself some typing and put weeks 1 to 12:whistling:


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

guvnor82 said:


> could of saved yourself some typing and put weeks 1 to 12:whistling:


CTRL+C and CTRL V my friend


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

unless you know it comes from the man himself, this IMO goes in the same pile as all the other pro BBer cycles people claim to know


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

m118 said:


> unless you know it comes from the man himself, this IMO goes in the same pile as all the other pro BBer cycles people claim to know


i used to know him and train with him, but he was outraged by my crazy cycles and felt he could no longer spot my weights in the gym so he backed down .. not sure what he is doing nowadays.. probably still a weak bum !!!


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## DiamondDixie (Oct 17, 2009)

JCE said:


> Reading around and found this, wondering if you guys believe if this is accurate or just some crazy internet bullS**t
> 
> 
> WeekTestosteroneAnavarWinstrolHGHInsulin12000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day22000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day32000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day42000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day52000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day62000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day72000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day82000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day92000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day102000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day112000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day122000mgs/week200mgs/day100mgs/day12 IUs/day10 IUs/day


X5 then you might be near.


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

flinty90 said:


> i used to know him and train with him, but he was outraged by my crazy cycles and felt he could no longer spot my weights in the gym so he backed down .. not sure what he is doing nowadays.. probably still a weak bum !!!


haha! I believe the HGH and Slin but the rest, I find it hard to believe...


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

JCE said:


> haha! I believe the HGH and Slin but the rest, I find it hard to believe...


really , i dont see why a pro would use anavar and winny together in them doses !!!


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

DiamondDixie said:


> X5 then you might be near.


haha 10g of test a week, easy in 1 delt I heard he does ha!


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

a lot of pish,your never gnr have a top pro or prob any american pro for that matter put his cycle out there for all to see,the simplest reason its gnr get him jailtime being classed the same as smack etc in the USA lol


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

flinty90 said:


> really , i dont see why a pro would use anavar and winny together in them doses !!!


what would be the point in running winny and var in same cycle?


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

weeman said:


> a lot of pish,your never gnr have a top pro or prob any american pro for that matter put his cycle out there for all to see,the simplest reason its gnr get him jailtime being classed the same as smack etc in the USA lol


Yeah but I mean this could be someone close to him for all we know, I am not agreeing with this by any means just throwing it up for discussion


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## DiamondDixie (Oct 17, 2009)

JCE said:


> haha! I believe the HGH and Slin but the rest, I find it hard to believe...


Lol I don't more like 20iu's prew then another 20iu's then another slow release 20iu's before bed.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

JCE said:


> what would be the point in running winny and var in same cycle?


exactly lol


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

JCE said:


> what would be the point in running winny and var in same cycle?


maybe he couldnt afford any more var and so topped up with winny?


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

JCE said:


> haha 10g of test a week, easy in 1 delt I heard he does ha!


wouldnt be shocking lol i was doing 8g a week at one point.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

weeman said:


> wouldnt be shocking lol i was doing 8g a week at one point.


but your a fcukin animal bro. this cnut is just phil heath lol X


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

JCE said:


> what would be the point in running winny and var in same cycle?


one is highly androgenic and doesnt aromatise,the other highly anabolic and doesnt arom,its not rocket science,is this really gnr descend into a thread of heresay and tools commenting on a genetic superior getting judged based on each of your own shortcomings and limited AAS and PED knowledge,looks that way........

sorry for sounding patronising but thats the way you are all coming across.


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

weeman said:


> one is highly androgenic and doesnt aromatise,the other highly anabolic and doesnt arom,its not rocket science,is this really gnr descend into a thread of heresay and tools commenting on a genetic superior getting judged based on each of your own shortcomings and limited AAS and PED knowledge,looks that way........
> 
> sorry for sounding patronising but thats the way you are all coming across.


Sorry mate, I was just wanting to get peoples views, I now realise its a silly post, apologies.


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## luther1 (Jul 31, 2011)

If you had put it was Aus's cruise dose then we would have believed it


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

luther1 said:


> If you had put it was Aus's cruise dose then we would have believed it


or even the dose sureno took before he died lol !!


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I'd do that when my joints have caught back up from my injury. More slin though.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Not even close.

Injectable AAS 6-8g. Where's the tren in there? What else he uses I wouldn't know but i'm sure we all have a vague idea.

Doubt he uses anavar, more like 200-300mg anadrol.

30-40iu gh/day

Slin I would guess into the hundereds of iu per day, perhaps 125-150iu, taken with meals and loads around workout.


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## barb86 (Mar 14, 2012)

probs many more compounds than that

a lot of these guys use less than you think though... gh / slin amounts could be right


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

unless its from the man himself, im about as convinced as Dorian yates spending no more than an hour in the gym 3-4 times a week,


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## AK-26 (May 29, 2011)

whether its true or just a guess at what his cycle really is, its still makes my planned first cycle of Tbol only look like a kid munching skittles.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 6, 2008)

10iu's of HGH a day? Guess you guys spend more than I do. Jesus


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

JCE said:


> haha! I believe the HGH and Slin but the rest, I find it hard to believe...


That's what I find hardest to believe. I'd Imagine the Slin and HGH doses to be radically higher than stated there.


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## Little stu (Oct 26, 2011)

I heard from a very reliable source that Phil is 100% natural (his mum ) lol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

weeman said:


> wouldnt be shocking lol i was doing 8g a week at one point.


you"re one of the very few honest BBs out there. I'm still doing my 3.6g/week and recently upped my anadrol to 300mg/day (from 150). Marginal increase in strength so far, and i would expect maybe 0.5lb extra LBM over previous.

I haven't yet tried the Paul Borresson approach, am waiting to do my bulk after summer, and I'm to busy workwise to do 'slin at the moment, but I"m going to give Borresson"s cycle a go:

"... For the first ten days, I take 1000 mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take 800 mg of Deca, 400 mg of Primobolan, and 600 mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do 400 mg of propionate, 200 mg of Winstrol, and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin. I also take a 30-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal."

from: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/advanced_chemical_warfare_an_interview_with_paul_borresen

page 2.

its over 1g/day of gear most days..



luther1 said:


> If you had put it was Aus's cruise dose then we would have believed it


LOL, yep, 2g test, and 1g of Eq and 600mg tren; last 11months, with 150mg/day oxys 4 weeks on, 4weeks off on top. Bulk on oxys, cut when off. This month bumped the "on" to 300mg/day oxys.

as for the 'slin use- quite common to use 30-50iu lantus in the morning, with 10-15iu novorapid at each meal and post workout.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Aus I always thought you recommended running anadrol for 6-8+ weeks for decent muscle gains? Or is that just the oral by itself?


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> you"re one of the very few honest BBs out there. I'm still doing my 3.6g/week and recently upped my anadrol to 300mg/day (from 150). Marginal increase in strength so far, and i would expect maybe 0.5lb extra LBM over previous.
> 
> I haven't yet tried the Paul Borresson approach, am waiting to do my bulk after summer, and I'm to busy workwise to do 'slin at the moment, but I"m going to give Borresson"s cycle a go:
> 
> ...


Amateur mate pmsl !!


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Injectable AAS 6-8g. Where's the tren in there? What else he uses I wouldn't know but i'm sure we all have a vague idea.
> 
> ...


at a guess? i think without sounding like a dik thats what many of the people here are doing,guessing and surmising based on heresay,netlore,their own shortfalls etc etc etc,tbh i wouldnt be surprised if this is what he used,i would be even less surprised if it was less,i know the actual cycles of many top guys and pro's,the company that sponsors me also has Tony Freeman under their helm and believe me when i say that many guys on this forum use WAY more than he does,in fact what i and ausbuilt use/used would prob last Tony a cpl of years lol

whats the difference between ausbuilt/me and tony freeman and the rest of the top tear pro's?genetics you couldnt comprehend thats what,we have medium to good genetics,i would say the top amatuers in the sport have really good genetics,the top guys are fukin aliens compared to the rest of us,wether you want to believe that or not i could care less,it is the case,massive amounts of gear peds,concrete work ethic will take you so far,but you will never achieve what prob even bottom rung pro's have physique wise regardless how much you use or commit yourself.

people wanna throw these 'oh he uses crazy amounts of gh,slin,mega amounts of tren'etc etc about because it lets them feel better about not being that size,not looking the way thoe guys do,sooner people opened their eyes the bigger favour they would do themselves.

heres an analogy,fukin loads of us can drive cars,and prob drive cars pretty fast,none of us are ever gnr be an Ayrton Senna,colin mcrae etc etc etc,theres a very good reason for that and its not down to just because of the cars they drive lol,we could all be given their vehicles today,drive them inside out every day for a year and still never be even one iota as good as they are/were.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Sh1t werman so basically if you have less thsn average. genetics you may aswell get fcuked lol.. right im off to eat pies in a mood x


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

flinty90 said:


> Sh1t werman so basically if you have less thsn average. genetics you may aswell get fcuked lol.. right im off to eat pies in a mood x


Agreed. I'm going down the pub for a beer and a burger.

Fcuk this bodybuilding malarkey, bunch of wallys!!


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## BigAggs (Apr 9, 2011)

No pro BB would post his AAS cycle on the net.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

C.Hill said:


> Aus I always thought you recommended running anadrol for 6-8+ weeks for decent muscle gains? Or is that just the oral by itself?


actually more like 16 weeks plus..

see this study that used 150mg/day for 30weeks, with no liver issues:

http://www.medibolics.com/german2.htm

that study the participants then kept on 50mg/day for over a year, and found ot be effective and safe...

I do the 4week approach owing to mini-bulk cycle approach i prefer not to get to fat, and keep making gains on my constant "base" of 3.6g of injectables per week.

If you don't have the injectable base going for months, then for the same effect you need to do orals for months..


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Agree with Weeman, these 6g 20iu GH and 100iu slin etc is bollox imo

I bet they use circa 1g-2g gear a week TOPS.. Genetics are everything! I have ok genetics and a pretty good work ethic, top pro's were born freaky, people like Ronnie would have had 20inch guns befre touching AAS I bet!


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

DB said:


> Agree with Weeman, these 6g 20iu GH and 100iu slin etc is bollox imo
> 
> I bet they use circa 1g-2g gear a week TOPS.. Genetics are everything! I have ok genetics and a pretty good work ethic, top pro's were born freaky, people like Ronnie would have had 20inch guns befre touching AAS I bet!


I respect your and wee's opinion but no way 1-2g a gear, no way. They use tonnes. I'll agree and say they respond to drugs way better than the average Joe (+ they have good hookups) but that's most of the advantage.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Wevans2303 said:


> I respect your and wee's opinion but no way 1-2g a gear, no way. They use tonnes. I'll agree and say they respond to drugs way better than the average Joe (+ they have good hookups) but that's most of the advantage.


How do you know they use tonnes?


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

C.Hill said:


> How do you know they use tonnes?


EXACTLY what i was about to ask!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DB said:


> Agree with Weeman, these 6g 20iu GH and 100iu slin etc is bollox imo
> 
> I bet they use circa 1g-2g gear a week TOPS.. Genetics are everything! I have ok genetics and a pretty good work ethic, top pro's were born freaky, people like Ronnie would have had 20inch guns befre touching AAS I bet!


Weeman didn't say the 6g of AAS was bollox.. and plenty on here have done 10-20iu of GH. I know people doing 100iu/slin- in fact i will be in sept (50iu lantus in the morning, then 10iu of novorapid with every meal, and post workout- ok its 90iu).

I absolutely think they use high doses- read stuff by A.L Rea and Paul Borresson.

Genetics playing an advantage is the individual response to the AAS- like all meds, there is variation to how individuals respond to the same dose. those who are BB champions react exceptionally well, but they would never have a lean 20" arm at 5'10 to 6'2" without AAS.

lets get a grop with genetics- plays a role in muscle shape, insertions/origin etc. As for real lean musclar size- no one has the genetics to look like a modern BB pro without AAS, not even a regional BB....


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> Weeman didn't say the 6g of AAS was bollox.. and plenty on here have done 10-20iu of GH. I know people doing 100iu/slin- in fact i will be in sept (50iu lantus in the morning, then 10iu of novorapid with every meal, and post workout- ok its 90iu).
> 
> I absolutely think they use high doses- read stuff by A.L Rea and Paul Borresson.
> 
> ...


What I wanted to say without sounding like a cvnt, THANK YOU.



C.Hill said:


> How do you know they use tonnes?


How do you know otherwise?


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Don't believe a word of it..... There's no mention of creatine :lol:


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Wevans2303 said:


> What I wanted to say without sounding like a cvnt, THANK YOU.
> 
> How do you know otherwise?


He didn't say he knew otherwise whereas you said you knew they used tonnes?


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

gduncan said:


> He didn't say he knew otherwise whereas you said you knew they used tonnes?


It was implied, nobody knows the top guys exact protocol but I still think they use loads, merely an opinion, for what it is worth.

No human was meant to be overly muscular, genetics outside response to hormones accounts for turning a great bb'er into one of the greatest (structure, muscle shape and overall proportion etc.), it doesn't seperate the average joe from a good/high level competitor (sheer mass), imo what does that is having constant access to high quality gear/gh/slin and megadosing all of them.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

It's all speculation what they actually use, some will use upwards of 1g ed and some will not, simple as that. Personally i'd sway towards thinking they do use lots, for the simple reason winning Mr O would generate sh1t loads of money, and it's a fact that using higher doses does give more gains. It's true though that genetics is the biggest factor but i just can't see it being true that high level IFBB Pro's are doing cycles around only 1g, that's what i cycle lol.. but then again their genetics will be much better


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Top guys also have access to homebrew gear with the best raws on the planet, not many people can get hold of that stuff in the volume these guys require.

Rap there is not a single decent level competitor using under 1g total weekly.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Wevans2303 said:


> How do you know otherwise?


I don't, I'm not saying i know, your statement sounded like you did?

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised If they were on shed loads of gear, but genetics obviously play a major part. Didn't ronnie Coleman have 21" arms before he even started weights? Crazy.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

C.Hill said:


> I don't, I'm not saying i know, your statement sounded like you did?
> 
> Tbh I wouldn't be surprised If they were on shed loads of gear, but genetics obviously play a major part. Didn't ronnie Coleman have 21" arms before he even started weights? Crazy.


No he did not lol, Coleman is full of sh!t. How can anyone believe a human was meant to have arms that big? Seriously?

Like I said, genetics matter at the top end, who has the better structure, muscle shape etc, but in terms of mass, anyone can get huge if they have constant access to the best gear and are wiling to use high doses for an indefinite amount of time, at that point it's down to who responds the best to the drugs.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Wevans2303 said:


> Top guys also have access to homebrew gear with the best raws on the planet, not many people can get hold of that stuff in the volume these guys require.
> 
> Rap there is not a single decent level competitor using under 1g total weekly.


Lol

That's such rubbish. Just cos you're a pro don't mean you magically get access to super quality UG lab stuff.

Some of the things said on this thread are such hear say and speculation it's funny.

A lot of guys get prescription meds through dodgy pharmacies. There was a big bust of a pharmacy in the USA a few years ago and several pro names were on the list for TRT.

Genetics, good gear, good training, and lots of sleeping. Phil Heath has monster genetics. Plus he has a solid work ethic. Probably does take a good amount of gear but so what.

Does the 'fact' that he takes gear in large doses make people feel better that they arent making the gains they want cos they don't take gear at high doses?

The more muscle you have the more receptors you have for gear. That's a fact. These guys would have graduated up in doses. Genetics allowed them to gain faster that's all.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

I hope you are joking about Heath and Dorian or you truly are a complete cretin,make that with a capital C.

Don't know what happened here i replied to a Weavins post he must have deleted it as i replied.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

gduncan said:


> I hope you are joking about Heath and Dorian or you truly are a complete cretin,make that with a capital C.
> 
> Don't know what happened here i replied to a Weavins post he must have deleted it as i replied.


I'm rewriting it as I didn't go about addressing it in the right way.

No you are the cretin, Heath and Dorian natural would have looked like any other serious gym goer who wasnt using drugs, I am certain of it.

The difference is when they start using hormones, THEY RESPOND SO MUCH BETTER. That's it! The top guys have the best structure, best shape and best response to drugs not to do with how they could add muscle as a natural, just because they respond better doesn't mean they don't end up using monster amounts of it though either.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Wevans2303 said:


> I'm rewriting it as I didn't go about addressing it in the right way.
> 
> No you are the cretin, Heath and Dorian natural would have looked like any other serious gym goer who wasnt using drugs, I am certain of it.
> 
> The difference is when they start using hormones, THEY RESPOND SO MUCH BETTER. That's it! The top guys have the best structure, best shape and best response to drugs, just because they respond better doesn't mean they don't end up using monster amounts of it though.


You queried Phil Heaths work ethic,said he went in the gym and did a couple of pump sets then drove home in his Bentley and grew.........


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

gduncan said:


> You queried Phil Heaths work ethic,said he went in the gym and did a couple of pump sets then drove home in his Bentley and grew.........


Yes, that's correct. Look at his videos, pumps up then GOES HOME.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes, that's correct. Look at his videos, pumps up then GOES HOME.


we dont know whether the videos truly reflect how he actually trains. it could be many things...

1: he actually trains like that

2: he trains like that just for the camera

3: he doesnt want to train how he really does in case his trade secrets on how to become mr O are stolen


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes, that's correct. Look at his videos, pumps up then GOES HOME.


Cool,learn something new everyday,all that it takes to become Mr Olympia is a few pumps sets,cheers.I'm just off to do some 10kg cable flyes then get on the phone to Cutler to tell him why he didn't win.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Lol
> 
> That's such rubbish. Just cos you're a pro don't mean you magically get access to super quality UG lab stuff.
> 
> ...





gduncan said:


> Cool,learn something new everyday,all that it takes to become Mr Olympia is a few pumps sets,cheers.I'm just off to do some 10kg cable flyes then get on the phone to Cutler to tell him why he didn't win.


Please go.



m118 said:


> we dont know whether the videos truly reflect how he actually trains. it could be many things...
> 
> 1: he actually trains like that
> 
> ...


There aren't any training secrets, it's all rubbish!


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Wevans2303 said:


> Please go.
> 
> *There aren't any training secrets, it's all rubbish*!


its easy to imagine a top level BBer being protective/secretive of the ways he became champion. its true for any sport isnt it


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> Top guys also have access to homebrew gear with the best raws on the planet, not many people can get hold of that stuff in the volume these guys require.
> 
> Rap there is not a single decent level competitor using under 1g total weekly.





Wevans2303 said:


> No he did not lol, Coleman is full of sh!t. How can anyone believe a human was meant to have arms that big? Seriously?
> 
> Like I said, genetics matter at the top end, who has the better structure, muscle shape etc, but in terms of mass, anyone can get huge if they have constant access to the best gear and are wiling to use high doses for an indefinite amount of time, at that point it's down to who responds the best to the drugs.





Wevans2303 said:


> I'm rewriting it as I didn't go about addressing it in the right way.
> 
> No you are the cretin, Heath and Dorian natural would have looked like any other serious gym goer who wasnt using drugs, I am certain of it.
> 
> The difference is when they start using hormones, THEY RESPOND SO MUCH BETTER. That's it! The top guys have the best structure, best shape and best response to drugs not to do with how they could add muscle as a natural, just because they respond better doesn't mean they don't end up using monster amounts of it though either.


its quite astonishing to see someone post so blatantly opening their mouth and letting their belly rumble :lol:

Ron had 18" arms before lifting a weight,had 21" arms before using AAS and when he started using AAS gradually made his way to 23+ shredded on stage guns,the guy has 1 in a million genetics.

If you honestly believe what you just said about yates and heath would look like any other gym goer if they didnt use any AAS i really do feel for your nievity,its quite telling tbh of your experience within this sport,but hey,you keep telling yourself these things if this is what keeps you comfortable in your bubble 

What i love about this place,and forums in general is the level of ignorance displayed,in this thread you got at least three national level competitors with umpteen decades worth of experince in the sport between us,collectively know on a personal level many of the very top guys in this country and some of the top guys in the world,we tell you that your fantasizing by and large if you think the super cycles is what guys use across the field to get there,and instead of embrace the fact you have this welth of experience amongst you and rubbish it because your idealism of what it takes to get there sounds much more sensational in your heads.

Look at things another way,and mean no offence to ausbuilt as i am sure he will realise,he uses what many of you would purport to be pro levels of gear,has done for a good length of time,i dont doubt the guys work ethic too,does he look like a pro?does he fuk,not even remotely,and i use the same example on myself,not even slightly close and my god have i lived a bbing life and abused the fuk out of PEDs more than most of you ever will.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

I'd have thought the pro's would be using Pharma gear whenever possible so they knew exactly what they were putting in their bodies. They're not gonna have money or supply problems, so why not use the best anybody can get their hands on?


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Dux said:


> I'd have thought the pro's would be using Pharma gear whenever possible so they knew exactly what they were putting in their bodies. They're not gonna have money or supply problems, so why not use the best anybody can get their hands on?


the pro's dont magically get a cash tree at bottom of the garden,only the very elite make enough money where cash isnt an issue,for the other thousand or so pro's they gotta work just like the rest of us lol


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

weeman said:


> its quite astonishing to see someone post so blatantly opening their mouth and letting their belly rumble :lol:
> 
> Ron had 18" arms before lifting a weight,had 21" arms before using AAS and when he started using AAS gradually made his way to 23+ shredded on stage guns,the guy has 1 in a million genetics.
> 
> ...


You need to just start doing pump sets mate that's where you're going wrong :tongue:


----------



## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

weeman said:


> Ron had 18" arms before lifting a weight,had 21" arms before using AAS and when he started using AAS gradually made his way to 23+ shredded on stage guns,the guy has 1 in a million genetics.


And I am the naive one?


----------



## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Wevans2303 said:


> And I am the naive one?


You're the boring one who talks sh1t.


----------



## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

gduncan said:


> You're the boring one who talks sh1t.


18 inch arms no training at 5 foot 11 and that would be in some sort of condition as he's never been fat...

Look there is no proof for either argument, but looking at the thousands of drug users across forums and who I see and meet with barely any of them coming close to what Mr.Coleman supposedly achieved before even lifting a weight and training as a natural, how can anyone even begin to imagine this is true.


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> And I am the naive one?


yes extremely mate,and every post you put up shows it.

ffs mate,i know guys who have never lifted a weight in their life,grafted on building sites all day and have fukin FOREARMS measuring over 17",AAS hasnt come into the equation at any point in their life,in fact the only drug they would know about is a bit of sniff and alcohol,oh wait,i guess that must be what did it.

mate really,what planet you live on?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

You always find the guys who need to believe that the guys at the very top use massive doses and there gains have all been built on drugs because diet, training etc have no place in muscle building  are the ones who cannot build a decent physique no matter the amount of gear they use so need to justify there lack of knowledge and gains on something lol


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> 18 inch arms no training at 5 foot 11 and that would be in some sort of condition as he's never been fat...


yes,if you had a modicum of common sense,you would prob have thought to investigate if this were the case before posting up,ignorantly,lo and behold there is pics all over the net of him at a young age looking larger than your average dude.

but hey,because you dont believe it,it simply cant be the case,shock horror........


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> You always find the guys who need to believe that the guys at the very top use massive doses and there gains have all been built on drugs because diet, training etc have no place in muscle building  are the ones who cannot build a decent physique no matter the amount of gear they use so need to justify there lack of knowledge and gains on something lol


nail on the head there matey


----------



## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

i heard weeman snorts a mix of crushed anavar, dbol, tbol, winny, anadrol on a friday night


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

weeman said:


> the pro's dont magically get a cash tree at bottom of the garden,only the very elite make enough money where cash isnt an issue,for the other thousand or so pro's they gotta work just like the rest of us lol


Sorry, I meant the top end guys.


----------



## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

weeman said:


> yes,if you had a modicum of common sense,you would prob have thought to investigate if this were the case before posting up,ignorantly,lo and behold there is pics all over the net of him at a young age looking larger than your average dude.
> 
> but hey,because you dont believe it,it simply cant be the case,shock horror........


Yes and he has to be natural in those pictures doesn't he? He played college football of course that sport is completely clean....


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Mr_Morocco said:


> i heard weeman snorts a mix of crushed anavar, dbol, tbol, winny, anadrol on a friday night


then i hit the gym,cpl pump up sets,thats how my guns stay 20",its the secret mate :lol:


----------



## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Flex has put on a huge amount of muscle over the last 2 years, at that level with a large team

around them 24/7, a guy with superior genetic's like him for example,cant fail...


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes and he has to be natural in those pictures doesn't he? He played college football of course that sport is completely clean....


Well when you consider Ronnie got his pro card in a drug free fully tested show then yes you can believe it.......but hey mate what ever gets you through the day


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Wevans i agree there is no proof for either argument it's the way you are posting coming across as if it is FACT they use ridiculously huge doses.Some will,some won't.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes and he has to be natural in those pictures doesn't he? He played college football of course that sport is completely clean....


yeah i guess it would make perfect sense to retell your entire history,explain the turning point at which you started using peds only to be lying about the other bits,mate there hasnt been another man in pro bbing like him,he is so far unique,it totally within the realms of belief that he wasnt using.

and you side swiped my comment about mates with large muscles who only graft and dont train,dont pick and choose your battles matey,please explain since you appear to be so in the know.


----------



## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes and he has to be natural in those pictures doesn't he? He played college football of course that sport is completely clean....


You're clutching at straws now, just because there has been cases of steroid use in college football doesn't mean him or anyone else (not found guilt) was/is using aas.

There's pictures of Cutler at a young age (mid teens) where he has an awesome body, unless he was being given them (steroids) from the age of 12, how did he get so impressive so young?


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

if anyone seen the pics of flex lewis when just hitting puberty there is another good example of incredible genetics hanging out of him,but no wait,he must have been juiced to the gills even then :lol:


----------



## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> Well when you consider Ronnie got his pro card in a drug free fully tested show then yes you can believe it.......but hey mate what ever gets you through the day


Yes because we know how reliable testing is don't we. That Kiyoshi fella who is supposedly drug free and competes in natural tested shows:


----------



## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

weeman said:


> if anyone seen the pics of flex lewis when just hitting puberty there is another good example of incredible genetics hanging out of him,but no wait,he must have been juiced to the gills even then :lol:


Mind you he is from South Wales I thought they were all born with a rugby ball and a bottle of dbol. :lol:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes because we know how reliable testing is don't we. That Kiyoshi fella who is supposedly drug free and competes in natural tested shows:


still swerving the issue mate?cmon answer the questions,dudes who dont train with large muscles???? cmon now......


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

weeman said:


> Look at things another way,and mean no offence to ausbuilt as i am sure he will realise,he uses what many of you would purport to be pro levels of gear,has done for a good length of time,i dont doubt the guys work ethic too,does he look like a pro?does he fuk,not even remotely,and i use the same example on myself,not even slightly close and my god have i lived a bbing life and abused the fuk out of PEDs more than most of you ever will.


i don't take offence to that at all- its a very fair point. I say i've made fantastic gain, at my age and a hell of an improvement to my physique, and I like the results i'm getting... BUT i certainly wouldnt place in a BB comp, well actually my best ever was 3rd in my 20s; i realised then that despite all the bent over rows, deadlifts etc, my lat insertion was was to high, and i'd never have the full batwing lat spread...

genetics... will dicate whether you can be a pro, but you can still take a sh*t load of AAS and be a bigger cnut than most


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't know what the pro's use and frankly I don't care. I do know, however, that at 21 I was a skinny bugger with nothing special genetics wise but still managed 18" arms by 26 without going anywhere near any aas.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Does the answer begin with 'G'?(Not grams of test btw)


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

No ps talked about ronnie competing in a tested event, testing means absolutely nothing.

You do not get 18 inch arms without lifting and you don't get them conditioned without drugs (at his height), no human was meant to have arms that big at his height.


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> i don't take offence to that at all- its a very fair point. I say i've made fantastic gain, at my age and a hell of an improvement to my physique, and I like the results i'm getting... BUT i certainly wouldnt place in a BB comp, well actually my best ever was 3rd in my 20s; i realised then that despite all the bent over rows, deadlifts etc, my lat insertion was was to high, and i'd never have the full batwing lat spread...
> 
> genetics... will dicate whether you can be a pro, but you can still take a sh*t load of AAS and be a bigger cnut than most


yep exactly,you look great,and prob bigger and leaner than many will ever hope to achieve,but still (you and i both) a long way short of the look of pro's,we accept that thankfully but doesnt deter us fro doing what we need to do to be more hench than most other mofo's that surround us :lol:


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> No ps talked about ronnie competing in a tested event, testing means absolutely nothing.
> 
> You do not get 18 inch arms without lifting and you don't get them conditioned without drugs (at his height), no human was meant to have arms that big at his height.


yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

my mate who has 17" forearms,no he doesnt have 18" uppers,they are just shy of 18,so AGAIN i will ask,please do explain with this all knowing fountain of knowledge you seem to possess,how can this be possible????


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

or prob just keep ignoring that point.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

weeman said:


> yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn
> 
> my mate who has 17" forearms,no he doesnt have 18" uppers,they are just shy of 18,so AGAIN i will ask,please do explain with this all knowing fountain of knowledge you seem to possess,how can this be possible????


How tall is he and he will NOT have 17 inch forearms and near 18 inch upper arms conditoned. You even said he had been grafting for years which will definitely involve lifting heavy loads so he's built some muscle via. that and he is probably higher body fat so it doesn't mean much.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> How tall is he and he will NOT have 17 inch forearms and near 18 inch upper arms conditoned. You even said he had been grafting for years which will definitely involve lifting heavy loads so he's built some muscle via. that and he is probably higher body fat so it doesn't mean much.


he is 5'11'' and i would guestimate about 15% bodyfat,his skin is thin,v vascular,has 6 pack,clear hook hanging out of his upper arm.

so tell me my friend in denial,are you claiming now that a person needs to have had no physical activity in his life to register to your conform in this debate? :lol: admit when your beat dude,you must wonder around with your ears n eyes closed,not to mention the mind shut off from what is possible.

anyway i cant be assed argueing with guys who are gnr hit head against the wall all day saying something aint so because they choose not to believe it,am off to get some ice cream with my son and daughter,who incidentally already show at ages 4 and 7 the genetic muscular traits of me and their mother(my arm and muscle inserts,her calves and body comp),imagine that,genetics.

no it must be me having them pumped full of AAS,i mean its just not poss otherwise is it


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

wevans earlier,when he realised he was beaten.


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## 88percent (Mar 2, 2012)

I was chatting to a 202lbs pro at an IFBB show and he give me what he called a great cycle. Not saying its the exact cycle he does all the time but he said he uses it to great success. I wasn't a small cycle like a gram a week but it wasn't totally crazy either. It's smaller than the cycles weeman and aus admit using. He didn't give me advice on gh/slin, the cycle he give me is just aas


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## Wells (Oct 25, 2010)

Those doses scare me. I'm off to play Ping-Pong now. Bye.


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## big steve (May 8, 2011)

interesting thread, the thing ive learned is that

either my genetics are sh1t or im not taking enough aas!!


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

Mingster said:


> I don't know what the pro's use and frankly I don't care. I do know, however, that at 21 I was a skinny bugger with nothing special genetics wise but still managed 18" arms by 26 without going anywhere near any aas.


I bet if you put pics of you natty at 26 with 18 inch arms, wevans will say 100% you took juice, just the way he is claims everyone of decent size has taken gear based on past threads


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm not beaten though am I, it's just your word against mine neither of us have any proof, it's merely opinion, i'll just stick to mine though, 18 inch conditioned arms at 5'11'' is simply not doable drug free let alone training free.

It isn't about what gets me through the day at all, I don't lament over these dudes being that much bigger than me or anyone else, I just don't believe it's down to natural muscle building capability, more the abuse of drugs and the response to those drugs.

The role genetics play exclusive of training and drugs is not that large.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

andysutils said:


> unless its from the man himself, im about as convinced as Dorian yates spending no more than an hour in the gym 3-4 times a week,


Eh? I used to train at temple gym, seen him train a few times back when he was mr o. That's exactly how he trained.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> Top guys also have access to homebrew gear with the best raws on the planet, not many people can get hold of that stuff in the volume these guys require.
> 
> Rap there is not a single decent level competitor using under 1g total weekly.


Wow, you actually know every 'decent level' competitive bodybuilder on the planet do you? Well enough for them to tell you their PED usage? 

Hate to tell you mate but we're all different. As a physiologist I could bore you silly about it but I'll save you the trouble. Some of us respond well to weights, some don't. Some of us respond well to AAS, some of us don't. Some of us get fat really easy, some of us don't. Some of us, like me, could squat over 500 pounds for reps at 18 (after two years of proper training) before I'd ever touched PEDs (I didn't really even know they existed till I went to uni!). Others won't ever be able to squat 500 pounds no matter what they do or how much gear they take.

Sadly, that's life. Sounds like you are a 'hard gainer' and so can't believe that others can gain easily and without steroids. My mate at school had the biggest calves I've ever seen and all because he had a funny bouncy walk. Go figure. Nah... he must have been on steds hey.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

defdaz said:


> Wow, you actually know every 'decent level' competitive bodybuilder on the planet do you? Well enough for them to tell you their PED usage?
> 
> Hate to tell you mate but we're all different. As a physiologist I could bore you silly about it but I'll save you the trouble. Some of us respond well to weights, some don't. Some of us respond well to AAS, some of us don't. Some of us get fat really easy, some of us don't. Some of us, like me, could squat over 500 pounds for reps at 18 (after two years of proper training) before I'd ever touched PEDs (I didn't really even know they existed till I went to uni!). Others won't ever be able to squat 500 pounds no matter what they do or how much gear they take.
> 
> Sadly, that's life. Sounds like you are a 'hard gainer' and so can't believe that others can gain easily and without steroids. My mate at school had the biggest calves I've ever seen and all because he had a funny bouncy walk. Go figure. Nah... he must have been on steds hey.


There's a difference between easily gaining and having 18 inch conditioned arms without touching a dumbbell. I don't say everyone must be using drugs, I am saying that top pro's abuse the sh!t out (more than this 1-2g/ week + 10iu gh 12 iu slin crap) of them and it's the main reason they're so big.

It's got absolutely nothing to do about my own personal gains whatsoever, plenty of huge dudes who know the score and speak honestly so people know the reality of it all.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

I trained for 5 years with a NABBA Britain Overall winner who then went on to do the Worlds and the Universe. We were both the same height and trained exactly the same. Supplement wise, whether it was OTC stuff or PEDs, we took exactly the same, gram for gram. I used to work all the cycles out through research and talking to other high level BBs on this board on line and face to face. If I upped the dose a bit too much, I would be told by him to back it off as it was not needed. Food wise, we would eat much the same, with me probably adding a bit more to put size on.

Bottom line, my mate grew way in advance of me, as he simply put on the muscle so easy. Don't get me wrong, he trained like an animal and deserved every gain he made, but I simply could not grow at the rate he did. We then tried upping my dose of PEDs to his, and it made no difference.

Bottom line, I did not have the genetics to get where he was, end of, irrespective of how much I slammed it.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Wevans2303:3063849 said:


> No ps talked about ronnie competing in a tested event, testing means absolutely nothing.
> 
> You do not get 18 inch arms without lifting and you don't get them conditioned without drugs (at his height), no human was meant to have arms that big at his height.


Well an African friend of mine from siera leon... Fresh of the boat, lifted nothin more than wood for the hut fire, climbed trees and carried water and kill pigs with his bare hands... 17" guns.. big thick thighs and impressive calves for a black guy... Never set foot in a gym the cnut


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Breda said:


> Well an African friend of mine from siera leon... Fresh of the boat, lifted nothin more than wood for the hut fire, climbed trees and carried water and kill pigs with his bare hands... 17" guns.. big thick thighs and impressive calves for a black guy... Never set foot in a gym the cnut


Sureno ????


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Your all lying!!! It's all a big conspiracy!!


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

flinty90:3064173 said:


> Sureno ????


Sureno is dead isn't he?


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Breda said:


> Sureno is dead isn't he?


well we can only dream XX


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## noongains (Jun 3, 2011)

It is really that hard to belive that some people are just better than others at certain things? phil,ronnie etc etc were born better than the average gym goer to be better at bb'ing. Same can be said for anything, give ronnie a football,swiming,sewing i dont bloody care, is he gonna be amazing at that as well,doubt it. hes good at bb'ing.

Even you Wevans2303,i KNOWWWW :whistling: you are not gonna be a bodybuilder,but im sure you are better than ronnie at something? spewing shi.t over the internet is one thing im sure your better than ronnie at. But then you must be taking loads of something to be that good?

Sure i do not belive the cycle is true but it does not change the fact he is just better than most at what he does.

Did you never have some one in school who was double the size as every other kid,people are just built different. People are not 'meant' to be born as a conjoined twin,elephant man blah blah whateverrr but it happens,so whats so hard to belive that someone can have 18inch arms.

Off to eat cake now, its got dbol in it so i can get big like phil


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Wevans2303 said:


> Yes because we know how reliable testing is don't we. That Kiyoshi fella who is supposedly drug free and competes in natural tested shows:


Like I said mate what ever gets you through the day


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

flinty90:3064187 said:


> well we can only dream XX


Tis true... He will serve as a constant reminder that bigger cycles don't always work


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## jjcooper (Sep 1, 2010)

All them doses are way way out, he is sponsored by muscletech, thats why he is huge. :blush:


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> Like I said mate what ever gets you through the day


It doesn't get me through the day lol, I don't sit and think of lifting all day, if you truly believe testing is conclusive and fair then so be it and if you think this guys natty you're crazy.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Breda said:


> Tis true... He will serve as a constant reminder that bigger cycles don't always work


yes mate genetics were very cruel to him ... he was taking shed loads of gear, eating shed loads of food, seemed to work hard in the gym.. and he died a weak little arab looking cnut X

RIP SURENO THE SMALL !!!


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## tony10 (Oct 15, 2009)

i,ll see him at the body power expo and i,ll ask him what his cycle is :thumb: he,ll probably tell me its a mountain bike.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Wevans2303 said:


> It doesn't get me through the day lol, I don't sit and think of lifting all day, if you truly believe testing is conclusive and fair then so be it and if you think this guys natty you're crazy.


I know the game mate from your posts on this thread you obviously don't.......you have no proof what so ever Ronnie was not natural when he won his pro card the proof he was on that day of the show is the test results but if you have proof other wise please post it up........


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

flinty90:3064215 said:


> yes mate genetics were very cruel to him ... he was taking shed loads of gear, eating shed loads of food, seemed to work hard in the gym.. and he died a weak little arab looking cnut X
> 
> RIP SURENO THE SMALL !!!


Agreed... Hopefully his camel has been adopted but the moral of the story is genetics is king


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Breda said:


> Agreed... Hopefully his camel has been adopted but the moral of the story is Sureno was a cnut


Agreed bro lol


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> I know the game mate from your posts on this thread you obviously don't.......you have no proof what so ever Ronnie was not natural when he won his pro card the proof he was on that day of the show is the test results but if you have proof other wise please post it up........


All those tests prove is no gear in his system for the comp, short esters and orals. I believe you're just trying winding me up for the sake of it.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

DB said:


> Agree with Weeman, these 6g 20iu GH and 100iu slin etc is bollox imo
> 
> I bet they use circa 1g-2g gear a week TOPS.. Genetics are everything! I have ok genetics and a pretty good work ethic, top pro's were born freaky, people like Ronnie would have had 20inch guns befre touching AAS I bet!


This is what makes me laugh about some people, they think genetics is hit and miss and has nothing to do with it :lol:

These people became Mr olympias and 300lbs+ pros because they can probably gain 20lbs of muscle by eating a piece of friggin toast a lot like the very few youngsters I see in my gym and thats before they've even started gear, they can build muscle by living off pizzas and kebabs with little to no fat gain.


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## Mjc1 (Aug 29, 2010)

i get this all the time... nobody believes i am natty, p!sses me off tbh


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

andysutils said:


> This is what makes me laugh about some people, they think genetics is hit and miss and has nothing to do with it :lol:
> 
> These people became Mr olympias and 300lbs+ pros because they can probably gain 20lbs of muscle by eating a piece of friggin toast a lot like the very few youngsters I see in my gym and thats before they've even started gear, they can build muscle by living off pizzas and kebabs with little to no fat gain.


No.

lol at people defending yates, he even said himself he didn't have good genetics and it sure wasn't just diet and training that got him so massive.


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> I'm not beaten though am I, it's just your word against mine neither of us have any proof, it's merely opinion, i'll just stick to mine though, 18 inch conditioned arms at 5'11'' is simply not doable drug free let alone training free.
> 
> It isn't about what gets me through the day at all, I don't lament over these dudes being that much bigger than me or anyone else, I just don't believe it's down to natural muscle building capability, more the abuse of drugs and the response to those drugs.
> 
> The role genetics play exclusive of training and drugs is not that large.





Wevans2303 said:


> No.
> 
> lol at people defending yates, he even said himself he didn't have good genetics and it sure wasn't diet and training that got him so massive.


you really are ignorant beyond belief mate,seriously lol

Yates never at any time said he didnt have great genetics,he said he didnt have gentically the best shape,but gentics for him building muscle were in abundance,agina there are interviews all over the place with him stating this (and getting misquoted like you have just did with what was actually said)

also i am getting confused now,everytime someone has a point you swerve it or change the goal posts,one minute you say 18'' conditioned arms arent possible naturally,then you change it and say not possible if you havent trained,which is it?natural and not trained or natural and trained? either way your wrong like,but just want to know how your logic is working out in your mind?


----------



## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

from what i have gathered from wevans posts over a few threads basically anyone who as 16-17 inch arms lean has taken gear period


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

weeman said:


> you really are ignorant beyond belief mate,seriously lol
> 
> Yates never at any time said he didnt have great genetics,he said he didnt have gentically the best shape,but gentics for him building muscle were in abundance,agina there are interviews all over the place with him stating this (and getting misquoted like you have just did with what was actually said)
> 
> also i am getting confused now,everytime someone has a point you swerve it or change the goal posts,one minute you say 18'' conditioned arms arent possible naturally,then you change it and say not possible if you havent trained,which is it?natural and not trained or natural and trained? either way your wrong like,but just want to know how your logic is working out in your mind?


Okay to make it clear.

5 foot 10 fella...

18 inch conditioned arms, not possible without training not possible 100% natural training.

Call me ignorant all you want, like I care.



baggsy said:


> from what i have gathered from wevans posts over a few threads basically anyone who as 16-17 inch arms lean has taken gear period


Depends on height 16 inch 5 foot 10 fairly lean yes easily done given time.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

I am bored of this now it's like talking to a brick.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Wevans2303 said:


> No.
> 
> lol at people defending yates, he even said himself he didn't have good genetics and it sure wasn't just diet and training that got him so massive.


ah gotcha. Well sh1t me a river, I wish someone would told me this before, I could have been 300lbs by now as I would have just taken stupid amounts of gear my whole life and washed them down with a few cans of stella.

i'll try and put it another way.

If yates had taken no gear throughout his whole career and still pursued bodybuilding, he would still be built like a brick sh1thouse of a tank.


----------



## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> Okay to make it clear.
> 
> 5 foot 10 fella...
> 
> ...


man you must suffer from such terrible shortcomings to believe that,but fair enough,your wrong,you dont care,nice one


----------



## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Ahmed 78 said:


> Hi i have previously been on a 5 week winstrol 10mg tab cycle taking 1 tab a day for first week and going up slowly to 5 tabs a day i have good size and have lost a bit of weight by taking this cycle but i still have a bit of fat and i can see a bit of shape on my arms aswell
> 
> I need advice should i go on a cobra nap 50 tabs cycle ? but i want to lose a bit of fat and gain muscle what is the best advice ?


----------



## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Ahmed 78 said:


> Hi i have previously been on a 5 week winstrol 10mg tab cycle taking 1 tab a day for first week and going up slowly to 5 tabs a day i have good size and have lost a bit of weight by taking this cycle but i still have a bit of fat and i can see a bit of shape on my arms aswell
> 
> I need advice should i go on a cobra nap 50 tabs cycle ? but i want to lose a bit of fat and gain muscle what is the best advice ?


Lots of gear and stop eating 

I jest.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

weeman said:


> at a guess? i think without sounding like a dik thats what many of the people here are doing,guessing and surmising based on heresay,netlore,their own shortfalls etc etc etc,tbh i wouldnt be surprised if this is what he used,i would be even less surprised if it was less,i know the actual cycles of many top guys and pro's,the company that sponsors me also has Tony Freeman under their helm and believe me when i say that many guys on this forum use WAY more than he does,in fact what i and ausbuilt use/used would prob last Tony a cpl of years lol
> 
> whats the difference between ausbuilt/me and tony freeman and the rest of the top tear pro's?genetics you couldnt comprehend thats what,we have medium to good genetics,i would say the top amatuers in the sport have really good genetics,the top guys are fukin aliens compared to the rest of us,wether you want to believe that or not i could care less,it is the case,massive amounts of gear peds,concrete work ethic will take you so far,but you will never achieve what prob even bottom rung pro's have physique wise regardless how much you use or commit yourself.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you just said iknow my self that i will never ever have the body of any Pro Athlete within the IFBB or FIBO what ever... Im just doing the best i can with what god given genetics i have to work with sh!tty as that may be i can`t go beyond my genetics its impossible, my muscles are molded a certain way i have a certain genetic limit and all i can do is work my ars off with what i got! Yeah i take gear and i am still in the faze where im figuring out what doses & what AAS works best for me & i will be for years to come, all inn all i can say i have crappy genetics but ffsake that will never ever stop me from dreaming or stop me from trying to achieve what body i see for my self within my mind.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Ahmed 78 said:


> Hi i have previously been on a 5 week winstrol 10mg tab cycle taking 1 tab a day for first week and going up slowly to 5 tabs a day i have good size and have lost a bit of weight by taking this cycle but i still have a bit of fat and i can see a bit of shape on my arms aswell
> 
> I need advice should i go on a cobra nap 50 tabs cycle ? but i want to lose a bit of fat and gain muscle what is the best advice ?


Take them all at once and do loads of pump sets.See you at the Olympia!


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## doylejlw (Feb 14, 2010)

Well I got mate who trains down my gym who is 20, trained 2 years natural, got just short of 18inches and is below 10% body fat. So there goes that logic.


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

doylejlw said:


> Well I got mate who trains down my gym who is 20, trained 2 years natural, got just short of 18inches and is below 10% body fat. So there goes that logic.


the thing is wevans will say he is secretly on the juice


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Ahmed 78 said:


> Hi i have previously been on a 5 week winstrol 10mg tab cycle taking 1 tab a day for first week and going up slowly to 5 tabs a day i have good size and have lost a bit of weight by taking this cycle but i still have a bit of fat and i can see a bit of shape on my arms aswell
> 
> I need advice should i go on a cobra nap 50 tabs cycle ? but i want to lose a bit of fat and gain muscle what is the best advice ?


Best post so far on this thread.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Ahmed 78 said:


> Hi i have previously been on a 5 week winstrol 10mg tab cycle taking 1 tab a day for first week and going up slowly to 5 tabs a day i have good size and have lost a bit of weight by taking this cycle but i still have a bit of fat and i can see a bit of shape on my arms aswell
> 
> I need advice should i go on a cobra nap 50 tabs cycle ? but i want to lose a bit of fat and gain muscle what is the best advice ?


Mate iv got something called SuperDuper Ultra Test1000 with a shiny sticker and everything ! Wanna buy? :lol: :lol: :lol: It will make you loose all your fat and turn you into Phil Heath ! Within a week you will be competing at the Mr.O ! I swear its true! Fawk genetics this sh!t will blow you away! (All the way to the morgue :devil2: ) :rolleye:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Wevans2303 said:


> All those tests prove is no gear in his system for the comp, short esters and orals. I believe you're just trying winding me up for the sake of it.


I believe your non factual posts on this thread alone shows you are the one on a wind up.........believe what you want to believe its all about drugs 

If this is true how come I reached my highest body weight last year of 240lbs at 5'5" tall yet I did not use more than 750mg per week and I only cycle for a total of 20 weeks out of the whole year.....yet in years gone I have used 5 x that amount but not reached that weight?


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> I believe your non factual posts on this thread alone shows you are the one on a wind up.........believe what you want to believe its all about drugs
> 
> If this is true how come I reached my highest body weight last year of 240lbs at 5'5" tall yet I did not use more than 750mg per week and I only cycle for a total of 20 weeks out of the whole year.....yet in years gone I have used 5 x that amount but not reached that weight?


Like my self im playing with dosages right now to see what works best for me and the less i can use the better , infact im gonna see the lesser amount i can use and still have quality gains.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Wevans2303:3064390 said:


> Okay to make it clear.
> 
> 5 foot 10 fella...
> 
> ...


Might not be possible for the vast majority but It is possible man... Like I said my mate.. while not quite 18" at around 6' clearly visible 8 pack ffs had not trained a day in his life the cnut

Another one of my mates from Zambia the cnut 6 pack 6'4 and huge arms... Never measured but they were fcukin huge... He did train and was 100% natural so your argument holds no water


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## HVYDUTY100 (Sep 4, 2010)

I think genetics play a massive role in competetive bodybuilding especially to get them to the top levels.... But i dont think these guys at the top are just taking abit of test with some slin and there massive due to their genetics, its a combination of both... Great genetics. Plenty of AAS and a unbelieveable diet that would probably cost a fortune aswell. Thats not a fact just what i think it requires to get to the top. if it was just mainly down to the genetics and not the higher doses look at the transformations in the bodys from the 70s and 80s to what they look like now thats gotta be down to the changes in diet and the drugs aswell


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

come on guys dont be so harsh on the fella. next you'll be tellin him the tooth fairy isnt real and santa doesnt exist!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

m575 said:


> come on guys dont be so harsh on the fella. next you'll be tellin him the tooth fairy isnt real and santa doesnt exist!!


WTF you talking sh!t for Santa does not exist ? The tooth fairy isnt real ? Their real i tell you their real!!! Infact my granpa told me so ! So hah! :lol:


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> There's a difference between easily gaining and having 18 inch conditioned arms without touching a dumbbell. I don't say everyone must be using drugs, I am saying that top pro's abuse the sh!t out (more than this 1-2g/ week + 10iu gh 12 iu slin crap) of them and it's the main reason they're so big.
> 
> It's got absolutely nothing to do about my own personal gains whatsoever, plenty of huge dudes who know the score and speak honestly so people know the reality of it all.


What's the saying? Obvious troll is obvious?

You're just another wannabe who puts his lack of success down to the 'fact' that anyone more successful than you must 'abuse the sh!t out' of peds. Lame.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Yeah sure.. they talk openly about their steroid use and risk losing out on millions of lucrative deals.

Highly doubt anyone but a select few know what he uses.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I was out the other day saw this fecking huge beast muscle everywhere, someone said all he ate was fecking veggies.

I was like yeah whatever he's bang on the fecking roids I mean look at him he's a fecking monster.

No way is that just genetics and veg, next you'll tell me he don't even train.

I was escorted out of the gorilla exhibit at the zoo. Took 5 off them though cos I'm bang on the roids and massive.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Tinytom said:


> I was out the other day saw this fecking huge beast muscle everywhere, someone said all he ate was fecking veggies.
> 
> I was like yeah whatever he's bang on the fecking roids I mean look at him he's a fecking monster.
> 
> ...


Good the see your humor is spot on :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

TaintedSoul said:


> Yeah sure.. they talk openly about their steroid use and risk losing out on millions of lucrative deals.
> 
> Highly doubt anyone but a select few know what he uses.


Plus for the Americans it is illegal to actual use steroids so for any of them to publicly say this is what I use blah blah would land them in jail......that is why this cycle is bullsh1t


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Its like the so called Andreas Munzer cycle of death its all BS unless you can actually have concrete evidence or people ho know of their cycle, and knew or know them personally.


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## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks for the debate guys. Having not used myself and only going on what I've seen/heard of others and from this forum so far I shared some of Wevans views I've gotta be honest. But just read through all 10 pages and now realise the truth 

I guess its pretty obvious really:

Person A - has poor genetics not naturally muscular but responds very well to AAS

Person B - has good genetics and naturally muscular but doesn't respond well to AAS

Person C - has good genetics naturally muscular and responds very well to AAS

Person C is going to come out on top obviously and then its a battle between Person C's to see who responds best to AAS and also who has best genetics for putting on muscle (insertion points and building mass) who will then have what it takes to become top Pro's.


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> Its like the so called Andreas Munzer cycle of death its all BS unless you can actually have concrete evidence or people ho know of their cycle, and knew or know them personally.


well 'apparently' that cycle was found written down in one of his log books, whether or not he followed that is another question but it was pretty mental


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## olliel (Jun 16, 2011)

flinty90 said:


> or even the dose sureno took before he died lol !!


is that what happen lol did he die poor little mexcan


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Wardy21 said:


> Thanks for the debate guys. Having not used myself and only going on what I've seen/heard of others and from this forum so far I shared some of Wevans views I've gotta be honest. But just read through all 10 pages and now realise the truth
> 
> I guess its pretty obvious really:
> 
> ...


And then their is person D who is a super saiyan...

On a serious note, AAS, TRAINING, DIET, GENETICS all have HUGE rolls to play and really not one can compensate for the other. Good discussion though guys has opened my eyes to alot


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## metrosexualMk (Mar 26, 2012)

Some decent discussion here lol, but the price of 30-50IU+ a day of HGH and insulin disgusts me, where are your average blokes getting the money to pay for this.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

metrosexualMk said:


> Some decent discussion here lol, but the price of 30-50IU+ a day of HGH and insulin disgusts me, where are your average blokes getting the money to pay for this.


Thats why many fail to actually become IBFF pro's mate.

Because they dont have the genetic capability and absorbtion capabilities of AAS and they dont have a huge amount of funds to see themselves through all the supplements, food, AAS/GH/DNP/slin/GH etc etc etc.

Phil is supported by Muscletech so obviously he is given free supplements year round.

If you have a big enough pocket for all of the above, and the genetic capability, time effort, dedication and responding well to the drugs taken.

Then anyone can become like phil, - sadly, many dont have all of the above.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

It has been suggested that being in the pro ranks DOES open doors. The ability to make money (not necessarily only legally) to allow for 30iu pharma grade GH a day for months. Has anyone anyone on here done that for a decent length of time?


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## barb86 (Mar 14, 2012)

if you really think anyone is taking 50iu's of gh a day I dont know what to say... I don't know where some of you guys are getting your sh*t but I do know most UG stuff is severely under dosed + a lot bunk... that much gh and you'd be brown bread in no time


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

barb86 said:


> if you really think anyone is taking 50iu's of gh a day I dont know what to say... I don't know where some of you guys are getting your sh*t but I do know most UG stuff is severely under dosed + a lot bunk... that much gh and you'd be brown bread in no time


Not 50iu/day but absolutely 20-25iu range with certain people going higher.



PowerHouseMcGru said:


> It has been suggested that being in the pro ranks DOES open doors. The ability to make money (not necessarily only legally) to allow for 30iu pharma grade GH a day for months. Has anyone anyone on here done that for a decent length of time?


Ofc it does good to see someone's with me, muscletech and mr. weider don't just give Phillip pre workouts and BCAA's.


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## ginnus21 (Oct 10, 2008)

I believe that most of the top pro bbs do use lower doses... BUT on the path to the top, some of those outrageous cycles have been used 10g + pw.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

I think a lot of people need to realise all is IBFF pro 10g of gear/week talk is bull.

I cant see how personally it makes that much difference running a regular dose to a astranomical dose.

I may be wrong, but im under the impression the body can only uptake so much of something at one time, before its expelled in the pee.

Also i doubt that Phil heath is on 50iu or whatever of GH per day, because at those sort of doses, you would expect him to have a huge coleman GH gut.

And he has one of the smallest waists for his size.

Personally, i think when you have completly nailed diet to a perfect degree, and you train twice per day, with the most perfect form (not lifting to show off)

On top of that genetics to build you, and the absorbtion ability of the user of all the compounds he takes.

I dont think its the huge speculated doses people talk off to be honest. Its all of the above combined that makes a pro a pro....


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

metrosexualMk said:


> Some decent discussion here lol, but the price of 30-50IU+ a day of HGH and insulin disgusts me, where are your average blokes getting the money to pay for this.


My insulin is free


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> It has been suggested that being in the pro ranks DOES open doors. The ability to make money (not necessarily only legally) to allow for 30iu pharma grade GH a day for months. Has anyone anyone on here done that for a decent length of time?


lot of pish again mate,dnt pretend your in the know phmgru,you have about as much knowledge of the industry as my 4 yr old son.

you have a thing called the chain,further up it you are better access you have to most things,fuk all to do with being a pro,at no point does anything come for free,it all has a price,some pay a lot more,some pay a lot less,end of story.



Wevans2303 said:


> Not 50iu/day but absolutely 20-25iu range with certain people going higher.
> 
> Ofc it does good to see someone's with me, muscletech and mr. weider don't just give Phillip pre workouts and BCAA's.


having been one of the guys thats taken 40iu gh a day again i'll use myself to disprove your point.

also,its a sad state of affairs when the one piece of back up is a guy with as much credibility s wet tissue paper and whose knowledge amounts to regurgitating the latest thing he read on some 'in the know' forum set up by a mystery guru :lol:

I'll again touch on the fact you have a variety of top level competitors posting in this thread who are friends with some of the most top end physiques on the planet,who are telling you that yes whilst some of this does go on its not as rife as you want to think it is,you in the meantime will sit in your little bubble of self denial refusing to absorb those key facts,but hey ho,your loss etc 



lewishart said:


> I think a lot of people need to realise all is IBFF pro 10g of gear/week talk is bull.
> 
> I cant see how personally it makes that much difference running a regular dose to a astranomical dose.
> 
> ...


that was a good post until it got to the part about the gh gut,nothing been conclusively conected to it and any theories are disproved by the fact that some of th eguys who supposedly sported these gh guts,not having them anymore now that they have retired,and what with the white muscle tissue that your intestine is made of being unable to reduce in size once its been expanded,that kind of puts that one to bed


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Think majority of people need to begin to listen to Weeman, from what I have read he argues a point but backs himself up thoroughly, some of the knowledge you have Weeman is priceless!!

Will remove my head out your a** now haha!!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

There is one FACT that seems to be totally missed if it was all about drugs then most of the guys on the forums would be Pro's as they take far more than they should I commonly get emails from guys saying they are using 3-4g per week and have reached a plateau yet they only weight low 200lbs mark.....

I personally know several Pro's one of them being a top 6 finisher at the Mr Olympia and I can say with the upmost certainty the majority of the doses being thrown around on the net as some Pro's so called cycle is so outragouse it is funny not nearly as funny as those who believe them..........as I said before guys who do not have the knowledge to nail diet, training and rest need a reason to hang onto to why others are better ........using sh1t loads of drugs seems to be the easiest one to use.......


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> There is one FACT that seems to be totally missed if it was all about drugs then most of the guys on the forums would be Pro's as they take far more than they should I commonly get emails from guys saying they are using 3-4g per week and have reached a plateau yet they only weight low 200lbs mark.....
> 
> I personally know several Pro's one of them being a top 6 finisher at the Mr Olympia and I can say with the upmost certainty the majority of the doses being thrown around on the net as some Pro's so called cycle is so outragouse it is funny not nearly as funny as those who believe them..........as I said before guys who do not have the knowledge to nail diet, training and rest need a reason to hang onto to why others are better ........using sh1t loads of drugs seems to be the easiest one to use.......


Is this pro u speak of in the 202lbs category if so I have too spoken to is pro as he came to our shop opening and sat down In the office (closed doors) and opening discussed his cycle and it was far from what I expected by that I mean smaller doses than I thought. Great fella and very very honest.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

JCE said:


> Is this pro u speak of in the 202lbs category if so I have too spoken to is pro as he came to our shop opening and sat down In the office (closed doors) and opening discussed his cycle and it was far from what I expected by that I mean smaller doses than I thought. Great fella and very very honest.


I know this will grind weemans gears but whats to say this pro isn't bulsh!tting about his doses? People do it ALL the time, not pro's regular guys, good amateurs etc. Nobody wants to be labelled a severe drug abuser to the highest degree, it's easy to dumb things down.

I'll agree that the top guys respond to drugs far better than most and joe public would need higher doses (and in most cases a lot higher) to achieve a similar level of mass but to say what seperate the top echelon of pro's from the rest is (almost) entirely down to their muscle building capability completely clean is wrong.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> I know this will grind weemans gears but whats to say this pro isn't bulsh!tting about his doses? People do it ALL the time, not pro's regular guys, good amateurs etc. Nobody wants to be labelled a severe drug abuser to the highest degree, it's easy to dumb things down.


 :lol: keep convincing yourself :lol:

there are reasons some of us know these things and we cant post them without betraying trust,incriminating ourselves to an extent and also revealing certain things,you have had an answer that gives you both what you want to believe (yes there is some horrendous abuse going on) and the things you cant accept (no the very best guys dont necessarily abuse it in the way you have convinced yourself)

but your gnr keep on conspiring.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

weeman said:


> :lol: keep convincing yourself :lol:
> 
> there are reasons some of us know these things and we cant post them without betraying trust,incriminating ourselves to an extent and also revealing certain things,you have had an answer that gives you both what you want to believe (yes there is some horrendous abuse going on) and the things you cant accept (no the very best guys dont necessarily abuse it in the way you have convinced yourself)
> 
> but your gnr keep on conspiring.


The best guys might not be abusing to the extent of others, but they're still using high doses, you're speculating as much as me as to what they're taking, regardless of you're experience or what you've heard from them, bodybuilding is full of white liars who will dumb doses down, claim natural when they aren't and will step on your toes if they need to.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wevans2303 said:


> The best guys might not be abusing to the extent of others, but they're still using high doses, you're speculating as much as me as to what they're taking, regardless of you're experience or what you've heard from them, bodybuilding is full of white liars who will dumb doses down, claim natural when they aren't and will step on your toes if they need to.


as i said,tell yourself what you need to believe it,and i am very much not speculating as much as you given our positions in the respective ladder


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## goonerton (Sep 7, 2009)

just to play devil's advocate here

The thing is this, as has been said here already plenty on this forum have taken **** loads, some 5/6 g + per week and by their own admission have not been anywhere near pro level. I know myself and i've never had any ambition other than vanity, it is very tempting to let doses start sliding upwards...

So pros are only humans like us but its their living , how tempting must it be for them knowing they have all other aspects of BBing nailed to push the drugs to the limits to see how far they can take it...i think i'm right in thinking its only really the elite pros that make any kind of real $ out of it...how tempting must it be for the rank and file pros to really push the envelope, it must be far easier for them to justify the health risks with it being their livelihood , than it is for us...

So why do we really think the average pro isn't taking huge amounts? surely if they aren't they must at some stage tried huge amounts to see just how far they could get.

another thing, i've heard plenty say they used high doses in the past but didn't have other areas nailed but they are now doing better on lower doses with everything else nailed...but i have never yet to hear anyone say they grew better on smaller doses than they did on bigger with all other things being equal.

can anyone honestly say they have tried mega doses and low doses having all other factors the same and being able to manage the side effects of higher , that they gained better on lower doses? or even the same?

am genuinely interested if anyone can answer that as personally have never been over 2g a week and usually quite a bit below.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Wevans2303 said:


> I know this will grind weemans gears but whats to say this pro isn't bulsh!tting about his doses? People do it ALL the time, not pro's regular guys, good amateurs etc. Nobody wants to be labelled a severe drug abuser to the highest degree, it's easy to dumb things down.
> 
> I'll agree that the top guys respond to drugs far better than most and joe public would need higher doses (and in most cases a lot higher) to achieve a similar level of mass but to say what seperate the top echelon of pro's from the rest is (almost) entirely down to their muscle building capability completely clean is wrong.


So if you extend your logic. Anyone who excells in any arena,has acess to "special" drugs, knowledge, tutoring? If so please tell me what I need to do, to be able to Punch like Tyson, and play guitar like SRV?

Obviously any natural abiilty (genetics to you) can be surpassed with acess, to some "secret" Please tell me what it is.


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Good points goonerton

& I firmly believe that pros do use a shed load of gear TBH.

I also believe that some need/use more than others,because as in all walks of life were all different & react differently to things.

If they didn't use a fair amount of enhancement they would look similar when they retire & still train hard.wouldn't they?


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Wevans2303 said:


> The best guys might not be abusing to the extent of others, but they're still using high doses, you're speculating as much as me as to what they're taking, regardless of you're experience or what you've heard from them, bodybuilding is full of white liars who will dumb doses down, claim natural when they aren't and will step on your toes if they need to.


Mate the truth is we will never know but alot of athletes are not juicing as hardcore as we may think they do, if more was better & more juice meant a better physique we would all be Pro`s but we are not cause we have a limited genetic potential and no amount of AAS,GH, SLIN , SYNTHOL will ever change what our genetic limitation , form of muscle & appearance allow us. Unless you want to look like Greg valentino that that is.


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Wevans2303 said:


> I know this will grind weemans gears but whats to say this pro isn't bulsh!tting about his doses? People do it ALL the time, not pro's regular guys, good amateurs etc. Nobody wants to be labelled a severe drug abuser to the highest degree, it's easy to dumb things down.
> 
> I'll agree that the top guys respond to drugs far better than most and joe public would need higher doses (and in most cases a lot higher) to achieve a similar level of mass but to say what seperate the top echelon of pro's from the rest is (almost) entirely down to their muscle building capability completely clean is wrong.


I can understand your point but what does he have to gain from lying to us nothing he a close friend of the shop and is often in touch. Also he is English so he isn't really incriminating himself by admitting a cycle as apposed to US Pros.


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

JCE said:


> I can understand your point but what does he have to gain from lying to us nothing he a close friend of the shop and is often in touch. Also he is English so he isn't really incriminating himself by admitting a cycle as apposed to US Pros.


When it's your livelihood that is dependant on your reputation it sure matters.

It's the same in any sport, there is the perceived and then the reality and it just so happens that in body building the two are further apart compared to other sports.

I can understand two people using the same level of drugs and one of them being heavier/leaner due to genetic response to the hormones but to achieve that using a fraction of the same drugs the other guy was using (like saying heath competing at 5 foot 9 240lbs on circa 2g/w total)? Nonsense.



infernal0988 said:


> Mate the truth is we will never know but alot of athletes are not juicing as hardcore as we may think they do, if more was better & more juice meant a better physique we would all be Pro`s but we are not cause we have a limited genetic potential and no amount of AAS,GH, SLIN , SYNTHOL will ever change what our genetic limitation , form of muscle & appearance allow us. Unless you want to look like Greg valentino that that is.


I do not believe this to be the case, plenty of pro's come from nothing > perfectly average in terms of physique to a high level because they work well with the drugs, the ones that achieve the greatest response from the drugs are the ones who go the furthest, taking all drugs out of the equation natural genetic limitations are far below anything achievable with drugs even for the most genetically gifted of athletes, so why does it even matter? This isn't drugs giving the extra 10% it's so much more.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

goonerton said:


> just to play devil's advocate here
> 
> The thing is this, as has been said here already plenty on this forum have taken **** loads, some 5/6 g + per week and by their own admission have not been anywhere near pro level. I know myself and i've never had any ambition other than vanity, it is very tempting to let doses start sliding upwards...
> 
> ...


actually myself,i am well known for the levels of gear used,since my flirt with heart failure at the start of the year when i was on 8g+ a week i have used about 500mg pw combined,and who would have thought,i am 8lbs heavier and leaner than what i was before the heart failure and huge doses..........

Again not saying this is gnr keep on happening as i will reacha stalemate at which time i will cycle up again but nothing in the realms of what i did before,because it was simply a waste for me.



xpower said:


> Good points goonerton
> 
> & I firmly believe that pros do use a shed load of gear TBH.
> 
> ...


No,why would they look similar once stopped competing?why would they continue to eat thousands of kcals a day when they dont need to,nail their lives like a competitive bber when they dont need to,as Yates says it mystifies him why folks still expect him to be 300lbs+,what for,there is no need anymore.


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Fair point Weeman.

I guess it makes it easier to belive for a mere mortal if I be;lieve they are on a shed load 

Must get a Gene update lol


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## barb86 (Mar 14, 2012)

if it was as easy as injecting 10g a week into yourself you would see a lot more monsters around

I know for a fact there are plenty of no marks online, probs even this board, using MUCH more than top pro's... why can't people just accept some guys are built for it and some aren't?... you were not gifted in the muscle accumulation department, deal with it. Yes gear is a god send and will allow you to compete with a top natural ie coleman but thats it.. its not the be all and end all. I don't see this behaviour in any other walk of life... In school when a dense **** cant do basic arithmetic they accept it any move on, yet in bb'in the small guys think everyone else is lying. As always, some ppl lie, some don't. But not all top guys abuse themselves to within an inch of their lives


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Boils down to, for example I can run but I am never going to be an Olympic sprinter, BUT I can use AAS, Diet and Training to be the faster then what I naturally would be


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> It has been suggested that being in the pro ranks DOES open doors. The ability to make money (not necessarily only legally) to allow for 30iu pharma grade GH a day for months. Has anyone anyone on here done that for a decent length of time?


Mate a coke dealer makes much more than a pro bber

Lots of coke dealers train but none are pro size.

50iu of gh a day? If its genuine gh and pharma quality then you'd not need more than 9-12iu max at pro level.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

JCE said:


> Is this pro u speak of in the 202lbs category if so I have too spoken to is pro as he came to our shop opening and sat down In the office (closed doors) and opening discussed his cycle and it was far from what I expected by that I mean smaller doses than I thought. Great fella and very very honest.


No mate I was not talking about him so now I know 2 top 6olympians 



Wevans2303 said:


> The best guys might not be abusing to the extent of others, but they're still using high doses, you're speculating as much as me as to what they're taking, regardless of you're experience or what you've heard from them, bodybuilding is full of white liars who will dumb doses down, claim natural when they aren't and will step on your toes if they need to.


The thing is what is high dose? The Pro's I know talk about dose in the 1.5-3.5g per week range but these guys are 200lbs + in stupid condition on stage yet you have guys on all forums using double that and they look like sh1t, the doses bantered around about GH are just insane and if most actually knew what GH did (and not what your source tells you it does) you would know those types of doses are pretty much confined to the idiots on the forums 

Do Pro's and top amateurs use high amounts of gear....yes I am certain they do and some use stupid amounts Will a truthful cycle ever be posted on the forums.....NOT A CHANCE IN HELL this who know Pro's properly know them would not post up the info they have and the main reason is you can take as much gear as a Pro but that does not mean you will look like a Pro....FACT for those on this thread who think that is true you will forever miss your goals.........

Specualte all you want with "well I believe they use loads and loads of gear blah blah" what ever makes you sleep at night and justify your own shortcomings when it comes to muscle growth but don't try and make it FACT because you believe it........


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## ws0158 (Jun 23, 2010)

do pro's take steroids???

is that why there musclely!!

gotta get me some of those


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## ginnus21 (Oct 10, 2008)

Ratta tat tat... Preparing to be shot down... The way I look at it is Arnold, Sergio Lou were all in the 2-3g pw(oral/inj) now using peds, insulin and everything else that goes together, its not unrealistic for Joe blogs to think 5-10g cycles aren't being used.(i do believe diet and training makes up 90% of a bb physique) running for cover now.


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> No mate I was not talking about him so now I know 2 top 6olympians
> 
> The thing is what is high dose? The Pro's I know talk about dose in the 1.5-3.5g per week range but these guys are 200lbs + in stupid condition on stage yet you have guys on all forums using double that and they look like sh1t, the doses bantered around about GH are just insane and if most actually knew what GH did (and not what your source tells you it does) you would know those types of doses are pretty much confined to the idiots on the forums
> 
> ...


Amen, I will never believe someone is in better shape than me only because of gear infant it just usually makes me work harder with what I got!!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ginnus21 said:


> Ratta tat tat... Preparing to be shot down... The way I look at it is *Arnold, Sergio Lou were all in the 2-3g pw(oral/inj)* now using peds, insulin and everything else that goes together, its not unrealistic for Joe blogs to think 5-10g cycles aren't being used.(i do believe diet and training makes up 90% of a bb physique) running for cover now.


i would love to know how you know this or can assume this number?


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> i would love to know how you know this or can assume this number?


Off topic but Pscarb could you check this for me please:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/176244-critique-cycle.html

OT: Arnold etc all had very limited access to steroids they are far more common now so in my opinion I think Arnold etc would of used as much as they could of got hands on


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

ginnus21 said:


> Ratta tat tat... Preparing to be shot down... The way I look at it is Arnold, Sergio Lou were all in the 2-3g pw(oral/inj) now using peds, insulin and everything else that goes together, its not unrealistic for Joe blogs to think 5-10g cycles aren't being used.(i do believe diet and training makes up 90% of a bb physique) running for cover now.


Guessing what dosage Bbers took in the 70s is the same as guessing what modern day BBers take,absolutely pointless,as all of them will have used/use different amounts based on how they responded,it's evidently extremely difficult for people to understand that it's impossible to just generalise things and lump everyone in the same category as a 'bodybuilder'.It would be like saying 'footballers' drink 4 bottles of Powerade a day.


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

gduncan said:


> Guessing what dosage Bbers took in the 70s is the same as guessing what modern day BBers take,absolutely pointless,as all of them will have used/use different amounts based on how they responded,it's evidently extremely difficult for people to understand that it's impossible to just generalise things and lump everyone in the same category as a 'bodybuilder'.It would be like saying 'footballers' drink 4 bottles of Powerade a day.


Actually a very good analogy to be fair


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## Readyandwaiting (Mar 20, 2011)

Years ago on here, there was a pro who was confirmed to be legit by the MODS/Pscarb I believe.

People were shocked at his dosages as he never went above a gram of sustanon a week etc...

His GH dosages were not high like most people expected.

I also remembering him saying that the pro's he knew also were on similar dosages to him and nothing ridiculous like people expected.


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## goonerton (Sep 7, 2009)

Here is a cycle I read that someone claiming to be a pro on another forum posted, it seemed to me very likely he was genuine from reading the whole thread, although a lower level pro i would imagine, i found it quite interesting read.

"Chionardo, here is my cycle (roughly as is it changes a fair amount!)

Test E 1000 mgs EW (I've gone up to 1500 mgs EW, but the side effects really start to kick in for me)

Deca 600 mgs EW (I was using EQ , but had to stop due to some side effect problems with it - increased anxiety)

Test Prop 100 mgs ED (first 8 weeks and last 8 weeks of cycle )

Tren A 100 mgs ED (I do this for 6-8 weeks and then off for 6 then back on)

Proviron 50 to 100 mgs ED

Nolvadex 20 mgs ED

GH 4 IU's ED

Slin will be incorporated during my 5 off weeks from IGF (they'll be alternated)

If I've got a contest coming up I will often incorporate Winny at 50 mgs ED for 6-8 weeks as Winny works very well for me..

My AAS cycle is typically for about 30 weeks, then I do a PCT (HCG , clomid , and nolva), and then I start my cycle again (I know I need to be off more, but with competitions I really have to be on pretty much all the time except for the brief PCT ). Hope this helps!!!!

Something else he wrote on thread:

"To answer your question, yes, I'm looking for a better or alternative route....I just can't increase the AAS too much past the cycle highlighted above...As I mentioned, I've taken much higher doses, but when I do I begin to really encounter the side effects (blood pressure, headaches, and even blood in the urine -- I encounter that when I go too far over 2 grams per week -- blood in the urine is a guarantee to freak you out!!!)...

I really don't know if you respond less over time or not -- Personally, I don't think that I respond less, but for me I've pretty much hit my plateau on the cycle I highlighted -- it's more like the cycle above maintains me at this point. Considering I'm up 100 pounds of lean mass since I started all of this years ago, the steroids , training, and diet have definitely worked....It makes me wonder if higher doses at this point would even do anything for me -- I just don't know....I guess maybe it's the same for all the pros -- if you think about it, can Ronnie get any bigger by taking more roids???? I'd like know what everyone's opinion is on that question........

but again for me, even though I've taken much, much higher doses, I just can't do that anymore so the IGF has been a tremendous help to breaking my plateau......your question is hard to answer -- hope this helps!"

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?148252-IGF1-LR3-Results#.T5Z25qtST0c


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

andysutils said:


> they can build muscle by living off pizzas and kebabs with little to no fat gain.


Got proof?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fat said:


> Got proof?


well you did say in another thread that you can lose fat and Bulk on pizza if the numbers are correct so why is this different??

here is what you said so he agrees with you??



Fat said:


> The only thing that matters are calories and macro nutrients. You could bulk/cut on Pizza if you're getting the right amount macro nutrients for you.


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> well you did say in another thread that you can lose fat on pizza if the numbers are correct so why is this different??


Burrrrrrrrrn


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> well you did say in another thread that you can lose fat and Bulk on pizza if the numbers are correct so why is this different??
> 
> here is what you said so he agrees with you??


Yeah but I got that info from bayman which I thought was a reliable source when it comes to nutrition lol.

He said you can lose bf, maintain muscle eating dirty calories such as pizza if your protein is high enough and at calorie deficit


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> I agree with everything you just said iknow my self that i will never ever have the body of any Pro Athlete within the IFBB or FIBO what ever... Im just doing the best i can with what god given genetics i have to work with sh!tty as that may be i can`t go beyond my genetics its impossible, my muscles are molded a certain way i have a certain genetic limit and all i can do is work my ars off with what i got!


I thought AAS bypasses your natural limitation of how much muscle you can build?


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Fat said:


> I thought AAS bypasses your natural limitation of how much muscle you can build?


Yeah but aas can't change your muscle shape.


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

Took a while to read through some of that... Jesus.

The cycle itself is very reasonable, especially when like we've read, some of you guys and previous contenders have been pumping literally triple doses of Test. Curious as to why there is no Tren or other compounds of that sort added.

I'd disagree with the whole Var and Winny debate though. Probably Oxy's at 200+ and higher levels of slin and gh.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fat said:


> Yeah but I got that info from bayman which I thought was a reliable source when it comes to nutrition lol.
> 
> He said you can lose bf, maintain muscle eating dirty calories such as pizza if your protein is high enough and at calorie deficit


does not matter where you got it from you posted it in another thread as you believed it so now someone else has said the exact same you disagree?? Cmon make your mind up


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> does not matter where you got it from you posted it in another thread as you believed it so now someone else has said the exact same you disagree?? Cmon make your mind up


This sort of stuff is where the forum starts to lose its credibility and usefulness. People regurgitating what they've read somebody else put without the faintest clue if it's fact or bo11ocks and no research. I so wish people would only post their own personal knowledge and experience and not do this! So much misinformation.


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> does not matter where you got it from you posted it in another thread as you believed it so now someone else has said the exact same you disagree?? Cmon make your mind up


Well I think its true since bayman wrote it and I'm just asking to see further evidence on this thread because someone knows someone who does it. I haven't changed my mind lol.



Kimball said:


> This sort of stuff is where the forum starts to lose its credibility and usefulness. People regurgitating what they've read somebody else put without the faintest clue if it's fact or bo11ocks and no research. I so wish people would only post their own personal knowledge and experience and not do this! So much misinformation.


Bayman seems educated on nutrition, read his posts and I doubt he would post shit.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Kimball said:


> This sort of stuff is where the forum starts to lose its credibility and usefulness. People regurgitating what they've read somebody else put without the faintest clue if it's fact or bo11ocks and no research. I so wish people would only post their own personal knowledge and experience and not do this! So much misinformation.


Unfortunately it isn't just the internet that is a victim of this it's real life too!Does my head in as well.


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## metrosexualMk (Mar 26, 2012)

Its a shame no top amateurs or pros reveal a real cycle, I will never believe a "proposed" cycle anyway, due to the fact no one wants to be seen as a steroid abuser that will disgust people.

People consider Andreas Munzer, Nasser and Kevin Levrone steroid abusers, is it really such a good thing to be named as? No pros would want to be seen as that.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fat said:


> Yeah but I got that info from bayman which I thought was a reliable source when it comes to nutrition lol.
> 
> He said you can lose bf, maintain muscle eating dirty calories such as pizza if your protein is high enough and at calorie deficit





Fat said:


> Well I think its true since bayman wrote it and I'm just asking to see further evidence on this thread because someone knows someone who does it. I haven't changed my mind lol.
> 
> Bayman seems educated on nutrition, read his posts and I doubt he would post shit.


No that is an opinion of one member, Bayman is very clued up on nutrition but in this case real world results dictate he is wrong so what you are agreeing with (blindly yet disagreeing with someone in this thread????? maybe Bayman should pop in and tell you what to think??) then being able to cut down to low digit body fat% on pizza can be done and as i said on that thread if this holds up (which it wont) then every competing bodybuilder has done it wrong from the start of time....


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## Readyandwaiting (Mar 20, 2011)

bump


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> No that is an opinion of one member, Bayman is very clued up on nutrition but in this case real world results dictate he is wrong so what you are agreeing with (blindly yet disagreeing with someone in this thread????? maybe Bayman should pop in and tell you what to think??) then being able to cut down to low digit body fat% on pizza can be done and as i said on that thread if this holds up (which it wont) then every competing bodybuilder has done it wrong from the start of time....


Domino's Sports Nutrition... Mass gain pizza (thick crust) or cutting pizza (thin crust) so damn delicious


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

metrosexualMk said:


> Its a shame no top amateurs or pros reveal a real cycle, I will never believe a "proposed" cycle anyway, due to the fact no one wants to be seen as a steroid abuser that will disgust people.
> 
> People consider Andreas Munzer, Nasser and Kevin Levrone steroid abusers, is it really such a good thing to be named as? No pros would want to be seen as that.


Read back a few years, in 2007 I think I posted my exact contest prep cycle for the Portsmouth which I won

This was an honest reflection of my dosing, however I STILL had people asking what else I used.

Can't win.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

denial is a powerful emotion


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Read back a few years, in 2007 I think I posted my exact contest prep cycle for the Portsmouth which I won
> 
> This was an honest reflection of my dosing, however I STILL had people asking what else I used.
> 
> Can't win.


is this the cyle you mean Tom?

Off season lean mass cycle - Tinytom

OK here's my current cycle, I didn't put it up in the pics thread for obvious reasons

Week

1. 400mg boldenone

2. 400mg boldenone

3. 100mg MST/day, 200mg boldenone, 200mg NPP, 500mg Test Heptylate/week

4. 100mg MST/day, 400mg NPP, 500mg Test Heptylate

5 Same

6 Same

7 Same

8. 100mg MST/day, 400mg NPP, 300mg Test Prop

9 100mg MST/day, 300mg Test Prop

10-14 PCT capsules

15 - Blood tests

Also using

Week 3-9 50 mcg IGF/day

Week 3-9 4iu GH before bed

Week 3-10 500iu HCG every 3 days

A longer course than I normally do but I am experimenting with a few things this year.

Next time I won't front load with the boldenone.

I'm in week 7 at the moment so only a few weeks left.


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## massiccio (Nov 17, 2010)

C.Hill said:


> I don't, I'm not saying i know, your statement sounded like you did?
> 
> Tbh I wouldn't be surprised If they were on shed loads of gear, but genetics obviously play a major part. Didn't ronnie Coleman have 21" arms before he even started weights? Crazy.


ronnie coleman lost about 32 comps before gettin his cycles sorted out... then he become KING!

and the matter is: no good genetic + ****loads of AAS = hospital

very good genetic + loads AAS + good response + incredible tolerance to side = FREAKS

good genetics + some AAS = A VERY GOOD BODY, but no mrO stage (forget it...)


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## massiccio (Nov 17, 2010)

metrosexualMk said:


> Its a shame no top amateurs or pros reveal a real cycle, I will never believe a "proposed" cycle anyway, due to the fact no one wants to be seen as a steroid abuser that will disgust people.
> 
> People consider Andreas Munzer, Nasser and Kevin Levrone steroid abusers, is it really such a good thing to be named as? No pros would want to be seen as that.


good thing or not... they were


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## massiccio (Nov 17, 2010)

weeman said:


> the pro's dont magically get a cash tree at bottom of the garden,only the very elite make enough money where cash isnt an issue,for the other thousand or so pro's they gotta work just like the rest of us lol


levrone had access to virtually unlimited cash ( family business inherited). ronnie was thinking of leaving BB, after losing so many comps, thinking he was wasting his time. he had a chat with the same guy named above. Then he started winning a couple canadian pro, , a couple GPs, a few others Comps and mrO 98. from 91-to 95 canada pro , he won nil, he was seriously thinking of leaving comps altogether.

many others never had to worry about cash.

some of them, they had to scrap the barrel to make it, true.


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## ungeheuer (Jan 12, 2011)

JCE said:


> OT: Arnold etc all had very limited access to steroids they are far more common now so in my opinion I think Arnold etc would of used as much as they could of got hands on


drugs were legal

drugs were cheap

drugs were human grad, alle of them were bought at the pharmacy

couple that with a bigger is better mentality an make up your mind. arnold & co abused the **** out of these drugs.

thats a cycle a npc competitor layed out on anonther board:

Perusing this board I couldnt help but notice the constant references to "cycles" with relatively low levels of testosterone, complaints about how testosterone makes you look "puffy," how other anabolics are so much superior to testosterone and even read someone suggest trenbolone as a first cycle.

If you have zero interest in becoming a successful bodybuilder then by all means pursue drug stacks with low - or zero - testosterone.

The fact of the matter is testosterone is the single most important drug in bodybuilding. First off, the concept of "cycles" is a terrible idea if you are trying to develop an outstanding physique. Do not ever come off testosterone, this should be common sense. You need higher testosterone levels than the human male will naturally produce to maintain - and obviously build - an impressive amount of muscle mass. A typical pro (or any successful bodybuilder for that matter) would have an offseason drug stack based around the "blast and cruise" concept. For example:

Weeks 1-12

4,000mg testosterone in various esters

200mg TNE pre workout

100mg dbol pre workout

100mg anadrol pre workout

1,050mg trenbolone acetate per week

2,000mg equipoise

1,050mg npp

1,000mg deca durabolin

32iu serostim daily

IM 15iu humalog prior to every meal

IM 30iu humalog prior to training

120mcg IGF-1 injected bilaterally in muscles trained

Weeks 13-16

2,000mg testosterone in various esters

16iu serostim daily

1,000mg equipoise

1,000mg deca durabolin

REPEAT to some degree, changing varying drug doses etc.

The point is that testosterone is necessary in large doses to promote muscle growth and size and to maintain that same muscle. In fact, there are a number of current pros whose offseason drugs are simply testosterone, deca, hgh and insulin. Trenbolone, equipoise, etc. often have an extremely amplified effect on metabolism and make it harder to gain weight when testosterone assists in letting most nutrients go into muscular (and yes, fat) storage.

The biggest bodybuilders are on the most testosterone, end of story.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

ungeheuer said:


> drugs were legal
> 
> drugs were cheap
> 
> ...


source for this masterpiece?


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

m118 said:


> source for this masterpiece?


Yeah please give us the source, not that i dis trust you just it seems a smarmy answer ( apologise if you did not mean to deliver in such a way) it came across as a " i am right you are wrong" scenario.


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

this thread still going then...


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## The Guvnor (May 17, 2010)

Not read the thread and have no experience of AS - however my view is that pro's use less gear than many of us would think.

Didn't Dorian say something once along the lines of - 'The only person who knows how much I use is me'.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

The Guvnor said:


> *Not read the thread and have no experience of AS *- however my view is that pro's use less gear than many of us would think.
> 
> Didn't Dorian say something once along the lines of - 'The only person who knows how much I use is me'.


An ideal position to comment then!


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## JCE (Apr 17, 2012)

gduncan said:


> An ideal position to comment then!


hahahaha


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

the insulin is far to low, they have 30iu with every meal not 10 iu a day

iv done 30iu a day in the past


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> the insulin is far to low, they have 30iu with every meal not 10 iu a day
> 
> iv done 30iu a day in the past


Just to clarify,when you say 'they' you mean every single bodybuilder does this?Uses the exact same dose?


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

gduncan said:


> Just to clarify,when you say 'they' you mean every single bodybuilder does this?Uses the exact same dose?


why you tring to be a smart ass?

because yes i know every single pro body builder and what they take, nob

click the link

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/advanced_chemical_warfare_an_interview_with_paul_borresen

For the first ten days, I take 1000 mg of Sustanon a day. Days 11 to 20, I take 800 mg of Deca, 400 mg of Primobolan, and 600 mg of test propionate a day. Days 21 to 30, I do 400 mg of propionate, 200 mg of Winstrol, and four of my Triple X capsules, which are a homemade combination of Dinatropinol, T3, and oral insulin. I also take a 30-IU shot of insulin every time I eat a meal.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> why you tring to be a smart ass?
> 
> because yes i know every single pro body builder and what they take, nob
> 
> ...


Well you said 'they have 30iu with every meal' which implies that every bodybuilder does the same.Wow you showed me a link to what ONE PERSON does,excellent.And don't call me a nob because I disagree with you,thanks.


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## silver (Feb 18, 2010)

from what ive read from ex pros cycles that theyve come clean about, they are on quite modest amounts.


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## ungeheuer (Jan 12, 2011)

m118 said:


> source for this masterpiece?


http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=406458.msg5803630#msg5803630

the guy claimes to be an ex national competitor. he halt a lot of other drug protocals with hgh, slin, seo ... intresting to read, but too extreme to try (and way too expensive).

i dont know if the protocals are realistic, but i do belive, that most bodybuilders lie about their usage.

claiming to use minimal amounts makes people think, that they compensate by training harder, eating cleaner, having godly genetics and so on. so you get way more credit for your body than saying that it is all drugs. diet and training are important, but they are no rocket science or magically put muscle on you like upping the dose does.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ungeheuer said:


> http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=406458.msg5803630#msg5803630
> 
> the guy claimes to be an ex national competitor. he halt a lot of other drug protocals with hgh, slin, seo ... intresting to read, but too extreme to try (and way too expensive).
> 
> ...


That's interesting. Just for a minute I'd like to turn that around and I'll take a bet that most of the guys that complain about their gear being under dosed don't have their training diet and supplements anywhere near that of a competitive athlete. Just saying that I don't see many of the competitive guys complaining that they have bad gear.


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