# Short dnp usage



## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

Without going into too much detail about diet, vitamins and supplements etc. ill be doing a short course total of 16 days first 4 @ 200mg, 9 days @ 400mg and last 3 back @ 200mg.

first question, should I be dropping back down at the end?

2nd question, should I use t3 for such a short cycle?

3rd question, am I being a bafoon?


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

Any help please?


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

fullyloaded said:


> Without going into too much detail about diet, vitamins and supplements etc. ill be doing a short course total of 16 days first 4 @ 200mg, 9 days @ 400mg and last 3 back @ 200mg.
> 
> first question, should I be dropping back down at the end?
> 
> ...


From the things I've picked up on here.

1)Why not just go for a steady dose of 200mg all the say through?Makes it more tolerable and minimises the side effects.

2)Yes,you need T3 from day 7 onwards so would take 50mg-100mg from the start.

3)If you do your research and know what to expect and how to do a proper cycle then no you're not a bafoon.

@ausbuilt is very knowledgeable so hopefully he'll pop in with exact answers for you.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

I prefer a low dose for a bit longer. Higher doses just crease me. T3 would always be of a benefit so no harm there.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

fullyloaded said:


> Without going into too much detail about diet, vitamins and supplements etc. ill be doing a short course total of 16 days first 4 @ 200mg, 9 days @ 400mg and last 3 back @ 200mg.
> 
> first question, should I be dropping back down at the end?
> 
> ...


To answer your 3rd question, you're no buffoon, as you're asking for guidance first, so that's a good move!

to answer your first 2 questions:

The original use of DNP for weight loss in the 1930s, was subject to a HUGE 100,000 person study by Cutter & Tainting:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....ticleid=246907

it was also used as part of an obestity treatment patent application in the USA, in the 80s:

http://www.afboard.com/library/DNP%2...4,673,691).pdf

now you will note that in the 1930s use of DNP, the dose was 100mg/day, and in the 1980's Patent Application, the dose was alternating between 125mg and 250mg/day with 50-100mcg T3. In fact the last point is the most important- DNP IMMEDIATELY stops the conversion in your body of t4 (inactive) to t3 (active) thyroid hormone.

for those that don't understand that this happens immediately, see:

"...Dinitrophenol inhibits the deiodination of thyroxine"

from: http://www.eje-online.org/content/77/1/122.abstract

for those that don't understand what that means, put simply there is an enzyme called "deiodonase" which works by removing one Iodine molecule from t4 to make it the active form of thyroid, which is t3:

"...The thyroid hormones, triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4), are tyrosine-based hormones produced by the thyroid gland that are primarily responsible for regulation of metabolism. Iodine is necessary for the production of T3 and T4. A deficiency of iodine leads to decreased production of T3 and T4, enlarges the thyroid tissue and will cause the disease known as goitre. The major form of thyroid hormone in the blood is thyroxine (T4), which has a longer half-life than T3. The ratio of T4 to T3 released into the blood is roughly 20 to 1. T4 is converted to the active T3 (three to four times more potent than T4) within cells by deiodinases (5'-iodinase). These are further processed by decarboxylation and deiodination to produce iodothyronamine (T1a) and thyronamine (T0a). All three isoforms of the deiodinases are selenium-containing enzymes, thus dietary selenium is essential for T3 production."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid_hormone

the bolded part clearly states that the deiodenase enzyme converts t4 to t3; and the very first link shows that DNP stops this process because it interferes with the deiodenase enzymes....

*So if you look at the lastest and best science available, you would:*

*
*

*
1. use a low dose (100mg-250mg)*

*
2. consider alternating 125/250mg*

*
3. use 50-100mcg t3 while on DNP*

from: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/205923-125mg-dnp.html

Basically, even on a short cycle, you need to run T3.

ALso, be aware that many of the supposed "side effects" the USA based boards say are due to DNP, are really due to low T3:

Signs Of LOW T3:

Cold intolerance, increased sensitivity to cold

Constipation

Weight gain and water retention[10][11][12] not just related to DNP- the reason water retention stays after coming of DNP- takes 1-2 weeks for the T3 to return to normal

Bradycardia (low heart rate - fewer than sixty beats per minute)

Fatigue everyone thought that this was DNP...

Decreased sweating can cause the increase in core temp on DNP, since sweating is what cools you

Muscle cramps and joint pain often associated with DNP

Dry, itchy skin

Thin, brittle fingernails

Rapid thoughts

Depression

Poor muscle tone (muscle hypotonia) always thought to be due to DNP

Female infertility; any kind of problems with menstrual cycles

Hyperprolactinemia and galactorrhea

Elevated serum cholesterol

from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothyroidism

you will notice that you may not feel cold, owing to the DNP, but fatigue (made worse with DNP- in fact the extreme fatigue from DNP use is primarily due to this!!), and lactation (ie t3 keeps prolactin at normal levels) are all issues you may face and blame AAS... when in fact its reduced t3.

be aware, that the decreased T3 happens IMMEDIATELY, as in from the first day- if the DNP is working on fat loss, its also working at stopping the conversion of t4 to t3.

Many of the "side effects" of DNP are actually down to the reduced T3- as an example, low t3 means you sweat less- yet sweating cools you (why you sweat with fever, and DNP); now if you can't sweat or sweat enough, your core temp rises- this has always been mooted on USA forums as a "danger" but they never understood that this was because of the T3 reduction....

In my books, if your run DNP without T3 supplementation, you are plain out and out stupid.... as you can see many of the "sides" of DNP are really related to the reduction of T3 when taking T3, not the DNP itself...

from: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/205923-125mg-dnp-2.html


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

Thanks, I wasn't sure if it would be as effective at just 200mg a day, I'm 16 stone 11 and only 5ft8, thought maybe the increase would work better for me.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

fullyloaded said:


> Thanks, I wasn't sure if it would be as effective at just 200mg a day, I'm 16 stone 11 and only 5ft8, thought maybe the increase would work better for me.


the effects of bodyweight are marginal on dose, as the suggested dose is 1-2mg/kg; so even at 100kg (220lb) you're talking a MAX of 200mg

follow the plan by the 1980s medical Patent application as a obesity treatment:

alternate 125/250mg DNP

run 50-100mcg T3

run as long as you need to.

but note they where on a calorie restricted diet (1800cal); I recommend a low carb or keto diet, with calories set at a point you will lose weight.

You may want to take sibutramine to control carb cravings and appetite. I highly recommend the DNP and sibutramine here:

http://www.d-hackslaboratories.co.uk/FOR-WEIGHT-LOSS-FULL-RANGE-.html


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

Thanks ausbuilt. Really like reading your posts.

Can I just ask, are you a doctor or is it just years of research? Your like the godfather on this forum! Lol.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

fullyloaded said:


> Thanks ausbuilt. Really like reading your posts.
> 
> Can I just ask, are you a doctor or is it just years of research? Your like the godfather on this forum! Lol.


I'm a failed Dr. My first year at uni was medicine, but I came from an all boys school, and lost the plot chasing skirt and partying...

I ended up finishing 2x science degrees (chemistry and psychology) before doing a graduate law degree, a couple of masters, and I'm finishing a PhD. However, I've always maintained an interest in science... and my wife's a pharmacist, so we have some good discussions!

I'm also over 40, so been around a bit and picked a few things up over the years...

Thanks for the kind words, and I always hope my posts bust some bro-science (yes myth busters is a fave show of mine!)


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i hated dnp when i tried it.

very shallow breathing and **** my guts out lol. would think about trying it again maybe eod?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Sambuca said:


> i hated dnp when i tried it.
> 
> very shallow breathing and **** my guts out lol. would think about trying it again maybe eod?


try it at 100-125mg ED; you don't need a high dose for results, simply diet, and duration "on"


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

Well I hope everyone is a grateful as I am for your replies.


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

@ausbuilt. Assuming the user follows a 125mg/250mg split, should they also alternate T3 at say 50mcg/100mcg or is there some way to work out the optimal dosing strategy? Also, are there issues with running T3 at too high a level? Can you potentially impact your natural T3 conversion/production when you come off?

I've just got a passing interest and have no immediate plans to run DNP but I find the T3 factor interesting and getting that right would be a vital concern for me.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Ian_Montrose said:


> @ausbuilt. Assuming the user follows a 125mg/250mg split, should they also alternate T3 at say 50mcg/100mcg or is there some way to work out the optimal dosing strategy? Also, are there issues with running T3 at too high a level? Can you potentially impact your natural T3 conversion/production when you come off?
> 
> I've just got a passing interest and have no immediate plans to run DNP but I find the T3 factor interesting and getting that right would be a vital concern for me.


I would run the higher rate of T3, to aid more fat loss... but 50mcg would probably be ok; after all the Dr who did the work said min of 50mcg, up to 100mcg; he didn't vary the t3 day to day, as its better to have stable levels for most people.

Normally running T3 will suppress your own production; in this case your production will be suppressed even if you don't take the extra T3- its what DNP does; suppress T3 production. Consequently, you have only benefits, and no drawback to running T3 in this case.

I would run T3 at 50mcg/day for 1 week after the DNP run, and then just watch diet carefully for the following week after that; you should have normal t3 production in the 2nd week.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> try it at 100-125mg ED; you don't need a high dose for results, simply diet, and duration "on"


Ye I might give it a go. My diet is spot on (all planned out for me) so when i cut i might try it at this level. and 50mcg of t3 ed

ty


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I agree with Aus totally. I'm actually one of those stupid people who did DNP without T3 and I regret it.

I lost a fair bit of fat whilst on DNP, but put it back on after terminating the cycle, for 2 reasons:

- I took one week off diet immediately after without using any fat burners in this week;

- I didn't use T3.

Next time I use DNP I'll do two things: use T3 and take a low dose of gear to make sure I hang onto muscle which T3 may otherwise erode (DNP won't touch your muscle).

It's a shame that I screwed up as above because my diet was absolutely tuned as was my training. Won't change much there next time around because I had things really nailed.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I agree with Aus totally. I'm actually one of those stupid people who did DNP without T3 and I regret it.
> 
> I lost a fair bit of fat whilst on DNP, but put it back on after terminating the cycle, for 2 reasons:
> 
> ...


yep, a low dose of gear is always a good addition when dieting (understatement- for me its the number 1 addition, above fat burners!)

you can also use ECA for added energy and metabolic boost, and keep doing them for 1 week after the dnp as well.

But as you noticed, its the nailed diet that is the primary requirement...

I only arrived at my low dose DNP+T3 solution because at first I ran the high dose approach advocated in US forums, and ran loads of carbs with it etc; succeeded in sweating loads, near dying from an inability to breathe, and lost 2kg in 3 weeks... was pointless.. I wanted to know want went wrong... and found the USA forums where full of $hit, because none looked at the studies i've posted earlier in this (and other) threads. So Im no genius, but i've tried most approaches... and understand why they do or don't work...


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Just to elaborate somewhat on my above post..

Prior to commencing the DNP I had been dieting for one year on cyclical ketogenic diet, with excellent progress although I had stalled big-time towards the end.

I used to suffer from really severe fatigue and mental fog on low-carb days and it was getting ultra difficult to stay focussed and disciplined, although I did still manage it.

I now realise that the long dieting must have severely depressed my thyroid output, hence the severe tiredness and stall in progress, and then the DNP must have been the final nail in the coffin for my natural thyroid levels. Worse still is after stopping DNP I took a week off diet and ate, well, somewhat normally for first time in a long time. So - with thyroid levels at bottom end - I immediately put on fat!

Lessons to be learnt from all this are as follows:

- long dieting depresses your thyroid levels, however well thought out the diet may be (and mine was well planned and implemented);

- you need T3 when using DNP;

- you need T3 after stopping DNP;

- you need to eat carefully after stopping DNP;

- I highly suspect that you need at least a low dose of gear whilst using T3, because it has been medically shown to eat into muscle mass!

Don't f.uck up like I did! Even though my training and diet were spot on, the long dieting had a toll on my thyroid levels and I wasn't experienced enough to realise the symptoms. Well, hindsight is 20/20..:sad:


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