# WEIGHT V'S FORM



## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

This has prob been done to death so sorry if it has but the question above seems simple unitl you analyse it and ask, what are your goals, what exercises what rep range.

So power lifters its gonna be weight over form yeah ?

Strongman its gonna be weight again but again form is important ?

Bodybuilders you read form but then people say lift heavy, i would go form on that ?

Endurance athlete ( long distance runners ) Gotta be pure form ?


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Are you asking a question because you've answered them


----------



## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

wholemeal breda said:


> Are you asking a question because you've answered them


Just wanted to see what other people think. for instance do you sacrifice weight over form. do you think it is better for hypertrophy to go real strict or to lift bigger weights


----------



## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Keep as strict as I can.

You only gotta look at arnie's, colemans, cutlers, warrens etc form to see they aint all strict form, what I get from watching there videos is to get a good stretch and contraction on the desired muscle even if form isn't 'perfect', they work the muscle not te weight.


----------



## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

lift as heavy as you can WITH GOOD FORM ALWAYS


----------



## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

I think each discipline has its own form. You can have bad form in each of the disciplines.

For example a powerlifter will squat wide and push hips through at bottom of lift to get out of the hole (bottom of lift) as easily as possible whereas a BBer may squat feet closer and try keep the exercise hitting the legs as much as possible. You can make examples for each of the lifts. If I were to bench for sets of 8 I would not bother arching (I hardly do anyway) and may even put feet on bench to make sure I isolate chest as much as possible.


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Form over weight for me bud

Whats the point in moving a weight from a to b if your not using the muscle you intend to use. You see people squat into a bicep curl and its like wtf just lower the weight and do the job properly

Obviously form will go missing slightly as you get to 8,9,10 but if form has gone from rep 2 then imo your wasting your time and asking for an injury

Even strength athletes cant say fcuk form but their form doesnt need to be as strict all imo


----------



## Driven Sports (Jul 15, 2011)

Even with strength athletes in competition you'll still see an absolute focus on form. In some cases of really pushing their best they'll grind out a rep with what looks to be lax form, but for the most part everyone puts form ahead of weight.


----------



## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Wardy21 said:


> I think each discipline has its own form. You can have bad form in each of the disciplines.
> 
> For example a powerlifter will squat wide and push hips through at bottom of lift to get out of the hole (bottom of lift) as easily as possible whereas a BBer may squat feet closer and try keep the exercise hitting the legs as much as possible. You can make examples for each of the lifts. If I were to bench for sets of 8 *I would not bother arching (I hardly do anyway)* and *may even put feet on bench to make sure I isolate chest as much as possible*.


Things like these make me laugh .. :lol:


----------



## JoeShmoe (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm interested in this too

I see guys at my gym going heavy but it's jerky and the tempo is like 1-0-1. They do 5 lifts and the set's done in about 10-15 secs. I see others, with lower weights, do tempo's of 1-1-4 for 8-10 reps,

taking about 30-40 secs. The latter group are bigger and more ripped

I always aim for the second but in the quest for progressive overload i think i fall back to the former to quickly. Whenever i stick at lower weights, better form, TUT etc i make good gains but need to keep that ego at the door.


----------



## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

For maximum strength form is most important. You don't get big lifts that you mess up.

There's a big difference between bad form and completely messing up an exercise (which is what most people do- half reps, no control, etc)


----------



## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

Although i agree that form is the key i see videos of profeesional body builders doing have reps with heavy weight and they just jerky it but this is usually afte the muscle if fatigued. I suppose no one person is the same and sometimes things work for other people. I will however be trying to stick with good form over heavy weight ( obviously going as heavy as i can whilst keeping form )


----------



## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

retro-mental said:


> Although i agree that form is the key i see videos of profeesional body builders doing have reps with heavy weight and they just jerky it but this is usually afte the muscle if fatigued. I suppose no one person is the same and sometimes things work for other people. I will however be trying to stick with good form over heavy weight ( obviously going as heavy as i can whilst keeping form )


Pro BB'ers are possibly the worst people to look toward for training style inspiration. Most probably didn't train that way to get there, and most would probably be just as good training anyway they wanted. Certainly when you are 250lbs on stage allows a very different way of training than someone who is 150lbs and wanting to get to 250lbs.

The other thing to remember is that a little movment in some of the big exercises is to be expected - the body works as a unit. Muscles cannot contract on their own and therefore it's a little naive to think that one can isolate a muscle without another helping out. Good example of this is the use of the glutes when doing single arm DB rows - the oppostie glutes and lats work together, that's how they were designed. So a little bit of a twist at the top of a row is to be expected.

Hope this makes sense


----------



## JoeShmoe (Nov 7, 2007)

So Martin, you'd say for mass, lower weight, better form is the bread and butter, at the suitable rep range(i. 8-12)? Obviously do the odd strength session as well(plateaus etc)


----------



## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

JoeShmoe said:


> So Martin, you'd say for mass, lower weight, better form is the bread and butter, at the suitable rep range(i. 8-12)? Obviously do the odd strength session as well(plateaus etc)


No, to get big you need to use heavy weights with good form 

I think working the big lifts in the 4-7 rep range, assistance work in 8-12 range and isolation between 10-20 reps would probably produce the best results for beginners and intermediates wanting to get bigger as a whole.

Weight IS important. Alot of BB'ers may not agree - but then alot of BB'er change the way they train when they get to a certain level.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

The irony is that the best way to increase what you can lift in a particualr exercise is to improve your form.

Switching from bad form with lots of cheating in an exercise to stricter form will usually initially result in far less weight being shifted, but as form is learned properly and strength and coordination within that new movement pattern are built up, eventually strength often surpasses the cheat form used beforehand.

Despite that though, when talking about bodybuilding not powerlifting or strength training, often there's not so much need to go heavy if form is good - much greater stimulus using lower weights.

Good form helps prevent injury, helps distribute the load more to the muscles you want, and eventually allows the best possible performance in an exercise. I think you can train much more efficiently when form is good, and even can end up requiring far less exercise volume in total.


----------



## JoeShmoe (Nov 7, 2007)

Dtlv74 said:


> The irony is that the best way to increase what you can lift in a particualr exercise is to improve your form.
> 
> Switching from bad form with lots of cheating in an exercise to stricter form will usually initially result in far less weight being shifted, but as form is learned properly and strength and coordination within that new movement pattern are built up, eventually strength often surpasses the cheat form used beforehand.
> 
> ...


Think im going to print that and put in my gym bag

Probably best bit of advice for me to avoid falling into that ego trap of taking 20Kg's off the bar but doing it correctly


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2011)

Good form imho always beats bad form and too much weight. I have lost count of the amount of people at my gym doing a bicep barbell curl with so much weigh on that it is only working out the ego.

And it looks like they are limbo dancing.


----------



## Driven Sports (Jul 15, 2011)

Interesting discussion from last week about rep speed and the possible benefits: http://www.getds.com/20110909291/Blog/workout-dynamics-part-two-rep-centrics


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

If you want to be lifting weights long term then you need to be using good form. People keep saying use good form to target the muscle but I think the main reason is so you don't go popping your back or damaging your shoulder.


----------



## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

martin brown said:


> For maximum strength form is most important. You don't get big lifts that you mess up.
> 
> There's a big difference between bad form and completely messing up an exercise (which is what most people do- half reps, no control, etc)


Absolutely, your technique will vary according to your goals, eg a powerlifter will use a technique which uses his leavers to the best advantage.

However less than optimum form will leave you more likely to get injured or miss the lift.

So Id say as the weights become heavier the form is even more important.


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Form over weight everytime for me. Took me a while to realise this though - I am sure we all get lured into assessing progress by counting Kgs! 

Cheers

D


----------



## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

DiggyV said:


> Form over weight everytime for me. Took me a while to realise this though - I am sure we all get lured into assessing progress by counting Kgs!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> D


Yeah but if form is kept constant then measuring by weight increase is pretty much the easiest and most accurate way to assess if you're getting stronger or not.


----------



## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Aftershock said:


> Absolutely, your technique will vary according to your goals, eg a powerlifter will use a technique which uses his leavers to the best advantage.
> 
> However less than optimum form will leave you more likely to get injured or miss the lift.
> 
> So Id say as the weights become heavier the form is even more important.


Exactly... although I would argue that 99% of exercises are the same for whatever your goal. The only variance should be the rep range and weight used (and tempo in some cases).

This is why I get confused with this whole argument - no-one should change their form lifting heavier. It should always be the same whether it's 10% or 100% of maximum.

The only change is when weight goes up reps come down. I wouldn't perform a one rep max any different than an 8 rep max. And if your bodybuilding and doin 12 reps then use a 12-15 rep max weight - pretty simple. Don't use a 25 rep max weight and pretend to squeeze the muscle more it's just BS. I think that's where people miss a trick on getting bigger and stronger.

Increasing your weights is very important - it's still the main reason muscles develop IMO.


----------

