# Weight training more than 4 times a week is counter productive for a natural..



## Target

Anyone a fan of Blaha? Smart guy and I subscribe to him but this was something I disagreed on..






Basically he goes into saying natural guys who train more than 3 - 4 times a week are wasting there time as they don't leave enough time to recover compared to a bodybuilder who uses gear who can; and that it does more worst than good for your body.


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## Gym Bunny

No it isn't.


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## MRSTRONG

Alot of natural olympic weightlifters train 2x a day 6 days a week and they can move a lot of weight .


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## Prince Adam

Less can be more


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## Target

ewen said:


> Alot of natural olympic weightlifters train 2x a day 6 days a week and they can move a lot of weight .


He goes into saying about competitive sports though, he's just specifically speaking about guys looking to grow in the gym


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## Monkey skeleton

ewen said:


> Alot of natural olympic weightlifters train 2x a day 6 days a week and they can move a lot of weight .


Are they all natty?


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## andyhuggins

It is all about what works for you. Some people recover quicker than others.


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## gearchange

I think this is right in some degree,A hell of a lot of people just train without proper diet and do not recover sufficiently before training again.They are the really ripped ones that stay the same every year.AAS do make recovery a lot better and allows training to be productive and more frequent.

It is true that everyone has a different ability in this department but on the whole if your natty and train every day you're muscles will not have fully recovered,even if you think they have.


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## Pancake'

I am a sub of Jason too mate. I agree a lot of the time with what he says if am honest, but just as any of them Youtube fitness vloggers whatever you wanna call them, they can't vouch for everyone can they? he also made another video after this (I haven't watched) addressing people missed the point of that vid on the subject he addressed. He's no doubt a smart guy with some knowledge, but I can see him landing in sh1t street sooner or later with how he goes about things. if I had to answer this? as opposed to simply going on the title of the thread being the question, I would say NO! as @ewen pointed out about Olympic lifters that goes to show in itself. If I recall he specifically stated it's counter productive for a natural whilst goals being ''Gaining Mass'' I don't agree with his statement nor how he addressed it either. it was painful/cringey and wreckless of him. I honestly believe there's truth behind it but why are inmates packing on slabs of muscle? some don't even know how to train and do bicep curls daily, yet use there time effectively and make them gains.


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## spankmonkeywill

yer i follow him along with a few others. alot of what he posts is good sound comments but he is not full proof!!


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> Alot of natural olympic weightlifters train 2x a day 6 days a week and they can move a lot of weight .


They tend to look like sh!te though


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## Dezw

I used to work on building sites mostly pouring and finishing concrete, heavy graft 6 days a week, sometimes 16-20 hour shifts.

Was a fcuking bear back then, stronger than I am now and when I started that I was natural.

Didn't harm my development and I know plenty other guys who also perform heavy brutal graft for long hours and it didn't harm them either.

For me it is more to do with supplying your body with the correct nutriton at the right times.


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## MRSTRONG

funkdocta said:


> They tend to look like sh!te though


Like tom daily the swimmer that eats 10k cals .


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## MRSTRONG

Monkey skeleton said:


> Are they all natty?


Of course not .


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> Like tom daily the swimmer that eats 10k cals .


He's and Olympic weightlifter?? Cant say ive seen him lift anything besides a shirt...


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## MRSTRONG

Target said:


> He goes into saying about competitive sports though, he's just specifically speaking about guys looking to grow in the gym


Thats the problem , many see things at face value and jason is pretty spot on however if you delve deeper he's wrong but like you say he's speaking of the average gym rat .


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## Big Man 123

Totally not true. I don't know why the bodybuilding comunity turned "to train less" these days, it makes no sense at all. The culture of laziness.

A muscle is recovered in 48 hours, 24 hours on gear, the CNS only needs 1 day a week to recover, why would you train less than that?.

I trained 6 days a weeks for 7 years without drugs and gained 40 pounds of muscle in that period, not signals of overtraining at all.

Arnold trained 6 days a week, *twice a day*, trained every muscle *3 times* a week, where's the overtraining? where's the unrecovered CNS? Still people on gear for years wonder why they don't look like him.

We need to stop this culture of laziness, if we continue with this path, soon we are going to see people saying "Train 1 time a week naturally and 2 days a week on gear!!!"


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## FelonE1

I do 5 days a week high volume/drop sets etc and it works for me


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## MRSTRONG

funkdocta said:


> He's and Olympic weightlifter?? Cant say ive seen him lift anything besides a shirt...


Similarities remain the same .


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> Similarities remain the same .


Yeah, one lifts weights twice a day every day... the other jumps of boards, swims and does cardio and some weight training.

I bet daily doesn't pump iron more than 4 times per week


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## MRSTRONG

funkdocta said:


> Yeah, one lifts weights twice a day every day... the other jumps of boards, swims and does cardio and some weight training.
> 
> I bet daily doesn't pump iron more than 4 times per week


He still utilises explosive power the same as an oly lifter and his gym movements would be very similar albeit less gym time .


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> He still utilises explosive power the same as an oly lifter and his gym movements would be very similar albeit less gym time .


which is the whole point of the thread  training more than 4 times per week is counter productive for a natural body builder.... according to Baha


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## dtlv

Target said:


> Anyone a fan of Blaha? Smart guy and I subscribe to him but this was something I disagreed on..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically he goes into saying natural guys who train more than 3 - 4 times a week are wasting there time as they don't leave enough time to recover compared to a bodybuilder who uses gear who can; and that it does more worst than good for your body.


I think it depends upon a combo of how you train (volume, intensity, total duration of workout time), quality of diet (protein intake, appropriateness of energy intake), level of adaptation to that quantity of exercise, and prevalence of other lifestyle stresses.... get most of those things wrong and it probably won't work well, but get them right and it surely can. Definitely can't make a one size fits all generalization.

Many of the pre steroids era bodybuilders trained six days per week - routines like upper/lower repeated three times over seven days with one day off built physiques that while they might not win shows today certainly still would stand out as bodybuilder physiques.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy

ewen said:


> Like tom daily the swimmer that eats 10k cals .


No it's not tom daily it's the American dude who's won a sh1t load of gold medals... forgot his name


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## 36-26

I don't agree for every natural but I do think that a lot of natural guys would do a lot better with less days in the gym but higher intensity and more emphasis on developing strength when they are in there than higher rep higher volume routines.

Certainly for me less is more but I have a manual job and am on my feet all day. I think guys working in an office can get away with a bit more. Recovery is everything in this game IMO.


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## 36-26

@Mingster what do you think mate?


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## Mingster

36-26 said:


> @Mingster what do you think mate?


I prefer less sessions but more effort in those sessions. I would hate to have to go to the gym more than 3/4 times a week. It's nothing to do with laziness, it is to do with what is optimum for me. I've tried greater frequency and my progress stalled. I firmly believe that most people train more often than is optimum for them, but to each their own. It their decision.

I accept that I don't train with bodybuilding in mind, but I'm pretty sure that @Pscarb does well enough on 3 times a week training a lot of the time...


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## DanishM

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> No it's not tom daily it's the American dude who's won a sh1t load of gold medals... forgot his name


Michael Phelps? (Or something like that)


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## NoGutsNoGloryy

DanishM said:


> Michael Phelps? (Or something like that)


Yeah that's it


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## Love2DL

I remember seeing a squatting video on YouTube, some chick with massive Glutes. I clicked into her twitter and going by her posts she squats nearly every day and it's definitely working for her.. so if women who have less testosterone than men, can train every day then why can't we all?

To throw another spanner in the works, she trains high reps, relatively light weight and lots of sets.


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## Cronus

Cant stand people like him, preaches like what he says is the gospel.


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## SK50

I think he is correct as a general recommendation. The primary reasons he highlights are connective tissues and muscle recovery not being able to keep up. And, with high intensity, high volume and high frequency all together this could very well be the case with the majority of trainees.

Of course, a high frequency routine can be configured and made to work for a natural. But if maximum hypertrophy is the goal (as opposed to wanting to specifically build a huge clean for example), then high intensity/low frequency would be my preferred method, as he suggests.


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## SlimFat

SK50 said:


> I think he is correct as a general recommendation. The primary reasons he highlights are connective tissues and muscle recovery not being able to keep up. And, with high intensity, high volume and high frequency all together this could very well be the case with the majority of trainees.
> 
> Of course, a high frequency routine can be configured and made to work for a natural. But if maximum hypertrophy is the goal (as opposed to wanting to specifically build a huge clean for example), then high intensity/low frequency would be my preferred method, as he suggests.


Thought high frequency / low intensity is what they recommend for best natural progression?


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## SK50

SlimFat said:


> Thought high frequency / low intensity is what they recommend for best natural progression?


Who recommends that?

I certainly wouldn't recommend low intensity for anyone looking for hypertrophy.


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## 36-26

Love2DL said:


> I remember seeing a squatting video on YouTube, some chick with massive Glutes. I clicked into her twitter and going by her posts she squats nearly every day and it's definitely working for her.. so if women who have less testosterone than men, can train every day then why can't we all?
> 
> To throw another spanner in the works, she trains high reps, relatively light weight and lots of sets.


How do you know she was natural?


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## SlimFat

SK50 said:


> Who recommends that?
> 
> I certainly wouldn't recommend low intensity for anyone looking for hypertrophy.


Everyone always recommends 3 x week full body routines followed by upper / lower for naturals


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## 36-26

Mingster said:


> I prefer less sessions but more effort in those sessions. I would hate to have to go to the gym more than 3/4 times a week. It's nothing to do with laziness, it is to do with what is optimum for me. I've tried greater frequency and my progress stalled. I firmly believe that most people train more often than is optimum for them, but to each their own. It their decision.
> 
> I accept that I don't train with bodybuilding in mind, but I'm pretty sure that @Pscarb does well enough on 3 times a week training a lot of the time...


I agree 100%. Every time I try higher volume higher frequency I feel run down and tired and irritable. I do best on a 3 day week PPL program. Strength progresses much better and as a result so does growth.


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## A-BOMB

currently natty not used in over 6 months and now train 3 days on 1 day off 3 on and is working great got me out of the rut ive been stuck in!


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## Porkchop

SlimFat said:


> Everyone always recommends 3 x week full body routines followed by upper / lower for naturals


Those routines will no doubt be high intensity though


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## SK50

SlimFat said:


> Everyone always recommends 3 x week full body routines followed by upper / lower for naturals


Sure - but however the split is done it should have high/moderate volume and high intensity.


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## bail

You'll find many of the best natty guys in the wall train all out 5-7 days a week @ConP has mentioned this the guy is speaking out of his a!se I trained for many years natty every day and went from 10 to 15 stone,


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## SlimFat

SK50 said:


> Sure - but however the split is done it should have high/moderate volume and high intensity.


Why do people always recommend starting strength or stronglifts? I would consider them low volume


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## andyhuggins

This can also depend on what people class as a "natty".


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## SK50

SlimFat said:


> Why do people always recommend starting strength or stronglifts? I would consider them low volume


Sounds like you are confusing volume with intensity.

5x5 is not low volume and is high intensity.

SS is great for beginners particularly because the initial learning of the exercises is geared towards motor learning and neuromuscular efficiency. e.g. You can only apply high intensity to the squat when you learn the movement and find your groove.


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## SlimFat

SK50 said:


> Sounds like you are confusing volume with intensity.
> 
> 5x5 is not low volume and is high intensity.
> 
> SS is great for beginners particularly because the initial learning of the exercises is geared towards motor learning and neuromuscular efficiency. e.g. You can only apply high intensity to the squat when you learn the movement and find your groove.


3 exercises for 3 sets isn't low volume?


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## 3752

Mingster said:


> I prefer less sessions but more effort in those sessions. I would hate to have to go to the gym more than 3/4 times a week. It's nothing to do with laziness, it is to do with what is optimum for me. I've tried greater frequency and my progress stalled. I firmly believe that most people train more often than is optimum for them, but to each their own. It their decision.
> 
> I accept that I don't train with bodybuilding in mind, but I'm pretty sure that @Pscarb does well enough on 3 times a week training a lot of the time...


i have trained 3 times a week since 2010 and since switching over i have done reasonably well in both competition and off season, my current split is training the whole body 3 times a week and it is working very well...

whenever i start working with someone i almost always reduce there workouts to 3 days a week as many people train 4-6 days a week without high intensity and progress suffers, bring them down to 3 days a week and teach them to train hard with high intensity and in all cases this will increase progress, i have done this with both assisted and natural guys and girls.

BUT

higher volume 5-6 days a week does work but they have to be high intensity workouts and it is something that again needs to be explained/coached for many......


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## SK50

SlimFat said:


> 3 exercises for 3 sets isn't low volume?


SS is low volume - I didn't say it wasn't. I consider SS to be a beginners breaking in routine - not the type of routine the thread is talking about.

I am getting mindful that we are sidetracking the thread with this....


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## Love2DL

36-26 said:


> How do you know she was natural?


I don't but it's my understanding that most female assisted BBers only use small doses, less than a man would produce naturally or they risk sides? I wouldn't even say she was even a BBer tbh she had big legs and Glutes but that is.

Regardless, same muscle group hit on consecutive days which even those on gear wouldn't usually do.. IMO that's proof that it's possible to train more.


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## Mingster

Love2DL said:


> I don't but it's my understanding that most female assisted BBers only use small doses, less than a man would produce naturally or they risk sides? I wouldn't even say she was even a BBer tbh she had big legs and Glutes but that is.
> 
> Regardless, same muscle group hit on consecutive days which even those on gear wouldn't usually do.. IMO that's proof that it's possible to train more.


Any training protocol is possible. Discovering which one is optimum for you is the key.


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## 1010AD

Target said:


> Anyone a fan of Blaha? Smart guy and I subscribe to him but this was something I disagreed on..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically he goes into saying natural guys who train more than 3 - 4 times a week are wasting there time as they don't leave enough time to recover compared to a bodybuilder who uses gear who can; and that it does more worst than good for your body.


I agree with you and you should post on his channel your reason for disagreement, lets see his response if he does


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## dtlv

A cool article just out covering training frequency and strength gain response, looking at multiple studies and trying to pull out the overall pattern.

Not definitive, but on balance of available clinical evidence it suggests training multiple times per week is more likely to improve strength than a lower frequency program.

http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2014/04/07/training-frequency/


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## simonthepieman

the answer is yes, no and maybe.

If you have a fully optimized routine and average genetics (ie 80% of the population) 4 times a week should be sufficient for close to optimal gains.

However most people don't have optimised routines and the 5th and 6th day can make up for that. And like wise some people can achieve enough or close to enough 3 days as they would 4


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## Trevor McDonald

bail said:


> You'll find many of the best natty guys in the wall train all out 5-7 days a week @ConP has mentioned this the guy is speaking out of his a!se I trained for many years natty every day and went from 10 to 15 stone,


I do remember ConP saying something along those lines.


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## Blinkey

bail said:


> You'll find many of the best natty guys in the wall train all out 5-7 days a week @ConP has mentioned this the guy is speaking out of his a!se I trained for many years natty every day and went from 10 to 15 stone,


But was that due to the diet?

Just pushing weights will not gain you weight, it is what you eat that counts.

I train two on one off, that is what works for me. But I lose or gain weight by my diet not the weights.


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## bigchickenlover

He shops at Sports Direct


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## bail

Blinkey said:


> But was that due to the diet?
> 
> Just pushing weights will not gain you weight, it is what you eat that counts.
> 
> I train two on one off, that is what works for me. But I lose or gain weight by my diet not the weights.


The assumption made is diet is bang on buddy ,

If diet isn't then training 3 or 6 days a week pretty sure gains will be minimal


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## barnz

funkdocta said:


> They tend to look like sh!te though


Not sure if natty, but this guy has an awesome physique (Olympic WR holder snatch, 175kg, in 77kg class @ London 2012):


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## ConP

I find frequent training works best for my clients and my self.

3 days per week using a full body or upper/lower split works fine if stuck for time.

Too much general talk about how much one should train and not enough attention paid to life style.

If you work manually you can't do as much as an office worker.


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## chrisjp4

It depends on your situation & what you do for a job. Obviously a pro who makes all his cash from sponsership's etc doesn't have to do anything other than train & recover so their always going to have a heads up.

I used to train 5 times a week while working split shifts everyday as a chef, didn't do me much good TBH, lost weight & went ripped, opposite of what i wanted! dropped my training down to mon/wends/fri & i gained a shed load more weight!

everyone's different & has different circumstances, if your working 40-60 hours a week training 5/6 times isn't a great idea! If your pro & all you've got to worry about is your food/rest/training/recovery/sleep, but that's basically their lifes & they get paid to look good. Anyone that works any kind of manual labor job i always recommend 3 times a week training & work up or down from their to find your sweet spot, EOD works for me as it means i recover 100% before i lift again. Remember you grow when you rest NOT when your in the gym.


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## chrisjp4

Pscarb said:


> i have trained 3 times a week since 2010 and since switching over i have done reasonably well in both competition and off season, my current split is training the whole body 3 times a week and it is working very well...
> 
> whenever i start working with someone i almost always reduce there workouts to 3 days a week as many people train 4-6 days a week without high intensity and progress suffers, bring them down to 3 days a week and teach them to train hard with high intensity and in all cases this will increase progress, i have done this with both assisted and natural guys and girls.
> 
> BUT
> 
> higher volume 5-6 days a week does work but they have to be high intensity workouts and it is something that again needs to be explained/coached for many......


I may aswel of not posted you've said the same as me pscarb, i only thought the thread had the first page not 3! EOD training i think works best for 90% of people IMO. Time to rest/recover & you can train the whole body in 3 days training.

I think most people don't grow due to over training, we always have little gym rats in my gym & they pick up the 20kg dumbells to do curls & swing their body more than their arms, then do that everyday & wonder why they haven't grown.

Saying that i was guilty of over training at one point.


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## eezy1

ive trained 3 days a week from the very start back when i didnt know anything about anything lol always suited me and something i stuck with

only thing thats changed over the couple years ive been training is my splits


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## nWo

Anyone besides myself think Blaha is a complete ****?


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## LeviathanBodyBuilding

> Anyone besides myself think Blaha is a complete ****?


 I think most of these online fitness personalities are, can't stand them to be honest.


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## Trev182

I agree with him for the most part.

For bodybuilding wise, yes it is counter productive as the body cant fully recover in time and as a natural, you can only gain 0.2-0.3lbs of muscle a week, the rest is mostly water weight/fat.

But if you are training for strength, even as a natural, then it you can train more as your body can recover, its easier to gain strength than to gain solid muscle.

I think he could have worded the video better.


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## nWo

danMUNDY said:


> I think most of these online fitness personalities are, can't stand them to be honest.


I just can't stand his attitude. Just gives off a whole "Do what I say and what I say only, this is THE way to do it" vibe. I think ICF 5x5 is way overrated as well, you get some people lurking the beginner sections of various forums waiting to suggest what's basically low rep volume training to every pr**k and his dog. Can't see why beginners should be doing 30-set workouts.


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## dtlv

ConP said:


> I find frequent training works best for my clients and my self.
> 
> 3 days per week using a full body or upper/lower split works fine if stuck for time.
> 
> Too much general talk about how much one should train and not enough attention paid to life style.
> 
> If you work manually you can't do as much as an office worker.


That's the key I think - training isn't the only thing that can put a demand upon the recuperative ability of the body, other lifestyle factors can significantly affect that too, and the appropriate routine for even the same person might change over time as their lifestyle and other demands change.

For me I generally am drawn to lower volume/higher frequency with a 'quality over quantity' type attitude to it - I do recognise though that others seem to respond better to slightly different approaches.


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## andyhuggins

dtlv said:


> That's the key I think - training isn't the only thing that can put a demand upon the recuperative ability of the body, other lifestyle factors can significantly affect that too, and the appropriate routine for even the same person might change over time as their lifestyle and other demands change.
> 
> For me I generally am drawn to lower volume/higher frequency with a 'quality over quantity' type attitude to it - I do recognise though that others seem to respond better to slightly different approaches.


Some great advice there.


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## SILV3RBACK

If u can manage more than 4 days a week training then u ain't training hard enough.


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## SlimFat

SILV3RBACK said:


> If u can manage more than 4 days a week training then u ain't training hard enough.


Not a sweeping statement much?


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## Kristina

SILV3RBACK said:


> If u can manage more than 4 days a week training then u ain't training hard enough.


I'd love to hear you say that to the likes of Pierre Roy, John Broz or Pavel Tsatsouline.


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## DazUKM

simonthepieman said:


> the answer is yes, no and maybe.
> 
> If you have a fully optimized routine and average genetics (ie 80% of the population) 4 times a week should be sufficient for close to optimal gains.
> 
> However most people don't have optimised routines and the 5th and 6th day can make up for that. And like wise some people can achieve enough or close to enough 3 days as they would 4


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## DazUKM

Big Man 123 said:


> Totally not true. I don't know why the bodybuilding comunity turned "to train less" these days, it makes no sense at all. The culture of laziness.
> 
> A muscle is recovered in 48 hours, 24 hours on gear, the CNS only needs 1 day a week to recover, why would you train less than that?.
> 
> I trained 6 days a weeks for 7 years without drugs and gained 40 pounds of muscle in that period, not signals of overtraining at all.
> 
> Arnold trained 6 days a week, *twice a day*, trained every muscle *3 times* a week, where's the overtraining? where's the unrecovered CNS? Still people on gear for years wonder why they don't look like him.
> 
> We need to stop this culture of laziness, if we continue with this path, soon we are going to see people saying "Train 1 time a week naturally and 2 days a week on gear!!!"


blaha isnt encouraging laziness, he recommends naturals squatting 3 times a week, and squats 6 times a week himself.


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## SILV3RBACK

kristina said:


> I'd love to hear you say that to the likes of Pierre Roy, John Broz or Pavel Tsatsouline.


Never heard of them.


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## Kristina

SILV3RBACK said:


> Never heard of them.


No, that doesn't surprise me...


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## Cronus

Apparently I don't like to train hard as I lift 4 x week.


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## Kristina

Cronus said:


> Apparently I don't like to train hard as I lift 4 x week.


Seriously. You're just wasting your time in the gym. You might as well not go now.


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## Cronus

kristina said:


> Seriously. You're just wasting your time in the gym. You might as well not go now.


But I don't have a life and I'm mentally unstable. I also need to say f*ck in every sentence to get my point across.

I'm actually being coached to hopefully compete at the end of the year and we've changed things several times from 3 on 1 off repeat, to 1 on 1 off. Continually gaining strength and size at a good steady pace.


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## SILV3RBACK

kristina said:


> No, that doesn't surprise me...


Why should it?

They aren't bodybuilders so why would I have heard of them?


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## Kristina

Cronus said:


> But I don't have a life and I'm mentally unstable. I also need to say f*ck in every sentence to get my point across.
> 
> I'm actually being coached to hopefully compete at the end of the year and we've changed things several times from 3 on 1 off repeat, to 1 on 1 off. Continually gaining strength and size at a good steady pace.


Sounds good.

Yeah I'm generally training 5 days a week and have done so for 2 years.

Some of my lifts are stronger than some of the guys. I train for power/strength and oly lifts.

In fact... I've made more physical progress than some of the blokes I've seen over 2 years - so anyone who says that "training more than 4 days is pointless" is ignorant to say the least.


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## bail

ConP said:


> I find frequent training works best for my clients and my self.
> 
> 3 days per week using a full body or upper/lower split works fine if stuck for time.
> 
> Too much general talk about how much one should train and not enough attention paid to life style.
> 
> If you work manually you can't do as much as an office worker.


I do a very very physical job,

(Tube and fitting scaffold don't have as much in America)

At first did find it hard to keep training up but now after a few year can easily train 5 times a week even on a upper lower split however their are days when I know it would be just stupid to train, given time the body can condition itself to some pretty impressive things and to handle pretty impressive work loads


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## spikedmini

This guy is a complete ****ing retard he used to make videos of him "exposing" fake natty`s like who gives a **** anyway and this guy looks like **** he spends him time reading books rather than actually working out



Target said:


> Anyone a fan of Blaha? Smart guy and I subscribe to him but this was something I disagreed on..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically he goes into saying natural guys who train more than 3 - 4 times a week are wasting there time as they don't leave enough time to recover compared to a bodybuilder who uses gear who can; and that it does more worst than good for your body.


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## Robbie

spikedmini said:


> This guy is a complete ****ing retard he used to make videos of him "exposing" fake natty`s like who gives a **** anyway and this guy looks like **** he spends him time reading books rather than actually working out


You do realise the difference between powerlifter and bodybuilder right?


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## spikedmini

Yes i do. do you?



Robbie said:


> You do realise the difference between powerlifter and bodybuilder right?


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## tomo8

Surely what hes saying is that for the average natural, not the small genetic elite. That training 4 days a week is optimal and will give you the best results.

Haven't watched the video, but he surely doesn't say that no muscle will be built training more than 4 days. Just that most will be built training 4.

Same as the argument over how naturals should train. All frequencies/ styles work, some just quicker than others.


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## JuggernautJake

we are all so different and so an arbitrary number like 4 is stupid as hell, a more personalized way to find what is optimal for you is to train as frequent/hard/heavy/as much volume etc as you possible can WHILST still being able to recover. Like I said we are all so different, I personally can train as often and as intense as I like and can recover quite fine.. for some people the number of days might be 3 for an elite athlete 14 times a week is certainly do-able. Just go by your EXPERIENCE.


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## scott08

i think the point most people miss with the video is jasons channel is directed alot towards the bodybuilding community. his programs (as said by himself) are primarily aimed at putting size on a person not with the main aim of improving performance. the title even says for putting on size, so talking about athletes is stupid. he's also talking about naturals. Alot of athletes are on gear so cant be used as examples. athletes like olympic lifters will also train most days of the week because they're trying to cement a motor pattern and improve cns efficiency - most don't want to gain much muscle and just want to get stronger without gaining much size to stay within a weightclass - so if you are in to bodybuilding why would you want that? they also train at fairly low percentages of their one rep max alot of the time, whilst training in 1-3 rep ranges. they accumulate fatigue rather than going to failure every session which is why they can and do train so often.

arnold was also mentioned for training 6 days a week, he wasn't natural though so not quite sure of the logic here

also bear in mind that he is saying 3-4 days a week training is *optimal*. training more or less times a week in most cases will still give you results. even more so if you are a beginner as pretty much anything will get you some results. So you trained 6 times a week for the last few years and gained decent size and strength. thats birlliant for you. does that mean it was the best way you could train? no. just because you can get decent results from a certain training protocol, it doesn't mean there arent better out there for you.

Blaha is a bit annoying to listen to so i dont watch many of his videos, but i agree. for the *vast majority* of people, training 3 to 4 times a week will be optimal in my opinion if you are on a program where there is a good combination of intensity and volume over the week. Unless you are a beginner, I doubt many out there can be on a program such as madcow or texas method, pushing decent weight, and be able to add another few days of volume or intensity per week and still be able to recover from it. i've used 3, 4, 5 and 6 day splits, as well as 3 body full body workouts and had far better results on a higher intensity 3 day program.


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## dtlv

scott08 said:


> i think the point most people miss with the video is jasons channel is directed alot towards the bodybuilding community. his programs (as said by himself) are primarily aimed at putting size on a person not with the main aim of improving performance. the title even says for putting on size, so talking about athletes is stupid. he's also talking about naturals. Alot of athletes are on gear so cant be used as examples. athletes like olympic lifters will also train most days of the week because they're trying to cement a motor pattern and improve cns efficiency - most don't want to gain much muscle and just want to get stronger without gaining much size to stay within a weightclass - so if you are in to bodybuilding why would you want that? they also train at fairly low percentages of their one rep max alot of the time, whilst training in 1-3 rep ranges. they accumulate fatigue rather than going to failure every session which is why they can and do train so often.
> 
> arnold was also mentioned for training 6 days a week, he wasn't natural though so not quite sure of the logic here
> 
> also bear in mind that he is saying 3-4 days a week training is *optimal*. training more or less times a week in most cases will still give you results. even more so if you are a beginner as pretty much anything will get you some results. So you trained 6 times a week for the last few years and gained decent size and strength. thats birlliant for you. does that mean it was the best way you could train? no. just because you can get decent results from a certain training protocol, it doesn't mean there arent better out there for you.
> 
> Blaha is a bit annoying to listen to so i dont watch many of his videos, but i agree. for the *vast majority* of people, training 3 to 4 times a week will be optimal in my opinion if you are on a program where there is a good combination of intensity and volume over the week. Unless you are a beginner, I doubt many out there can be on a program such as madcow or texas method, pushing decent weight, and be able to add another few days of volume or intensity per week and still be able to recover from it. i've used 3, 4, 5 and 6 day splits, as well as 3 body full body workouts and had far better results on a higher intensity 3 day program.


I agree very much, especially with the second line of your last paragraph - "for the *vast majority* of people, training 3 to 4 times a week will be optimal in my opinion if you are on a program where there is a good combination of intensity and volume over the week." For some people in some circumstances higher or lower numbers of sessions per week may be optimal, but for the most 3-4 quality sessions per week will provide the best balance of hard training and quality rest.


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