# My 3 month "let's get started" log. Start 15/03/15



## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

This is to chart my training and diet over the next 12 weeks - I can't get away with what I used to, and things have got out of hand (even if it's taken me some time to realize/acept this!)

Male

50 years of age.

99.1 kg (15/03/15)

Waist 43" !

Bodyfat 35% - an estimate based on waist measurement and pics.

My aim is to lower my BF/reduce my waist. If it is generally accepted that 1 - 2 lb loss /week is realistic, then I'll aim for 0.75 kg for 12 weeks which should see me at 90 kg in 12 weeks time. I initially thought 2500 cal/day (not an entirely random guess) at some specific ratio would suffice, but as I read into this ratio, things became a bit more involved...

*Training*

I intend following this routine. So that's:

Week 1

Day 1) Upper Body

Day 2) Cardio

Day 3) Lower Body

Day 4) Cardio

Day 5) Upper Body

Day 6) Cardio

Week 2 Change for 2 LBW and 1 UBW.

*Diet*

There's a method for deciding calorific allowance here (gave me an RMR of 1956 cal), and and onther method here (RMR of 1917 cal), but I've gone for the method in Anita Bean's book as it takes age into account.

RMR (Anita Bean method): 2029 kcal

Activity allowance: I've gone for moderately active - I spend between 2 and 4 hours walking over undulating/mixed terrain each day (and a couple of hours driving). Activity factor of 1.7:

1.7 x 2029 kcal = 3449 kcal

Exercise Allowance: If I allow for 360 kcal per weight session, and 200 kcal per cardio session, that's 3 x 360 + 3 x 200 = 1680 kcal. Averaging that out for the week, 1680/7 = 240 kcal

Total daily allowance = 3449 +240

= 3680 kcal

As my aim is fat loss, I'll reduce this by 15%

3680 x 0.85 = 3128 kcal

Carb Requirement

AIming for 60% of my cal from carbs, 0.6 x 3128 = 1880 which is 470g carb/day.

Protein Requirement

Allowing 1.6 g/kg bodyweight 1.6g x 99.1kg = 159g protein/day (I've seen higher figs suggested on this site, but I'm taking this 1.6g from Anita Bean's book).

159g protein x 4 cal = 635 kcal per day from protein (20%)

Fat

This leaves 20% reamaining cal from fat.

That's the theory!

*My first day*

First UBW was fine, but will need some tweaking - a bit too heavy on some, maybe a bit light on others...

But the first day's diet! Felt like I ate loads, yet at the end of the day:

Total cal 2062

Protein 142 g, 568 cal, 27.5% of intake.

Carb 238g, 953 cal, 46.2% of intake.

Fat 60g, 541 cal, 26% of intake.

Given the amount of food I felt I took on, this has me questioning whether I've over estimated my calorific allowance. I'll have to see how things work out and tweak this over these first few weeks, but I'm not sure about struggling to eat even more!

*Day 2*

Today's total was 2500 kcal,

175 g protein (32% of cal)

260 g carb (48% of cal)

49g fat (20%)

Got my protein in today!

Will monitor this and see how it goes, think I can hit 2500 cal/day at those approximate ratios but any thoughts/comments would be greatly received.

t


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 1 Review

Only managed 2 upper body workouts (Sun 15th & Fri 20th) due to manflu! No cardio, and did as little as I could get away with through the week. Not a complete washout as ubw is settled:

Bench Press: 12, 10, 8, 6, 12 at 21 kg, 31 kg, 41 kg, 51 kg, 41 kg (incl' bar)

Dumbell Flys 12 at 5kg.

Dumbell Row: 12, 10, 8, 6, 12 at 8.75 kg, 10 kg, 11.25 kg, 12.5 kg, 10 kg.

Bent Over Row: 12 at 27 kg.

Seated Dumbell Press: 12, 10, 8, 6, 12 at 10 kg, 12.5 kg, 15 kg, 17.5 kg, 15 kg.

Upright Row 12 at 27 kg.

Z Bar Curl 12, 10, 8, 6, 12 at 17 kg, 19.5 kg, 22 kg, 24.5 kg, 22 kg (on the bar).

Hammer Curls 12 at 5 kg.

Standing Tricep Press 12, 10, 8, 6, 12 at 5 kg, 6.25 kg, 7.5 kg, 8.75 kg, 7.5 kg.

Tricep Kickbacks 12 at 2.5 kg.

Diet

Having done the number crunching above, I've basically eaten what I thought I needed to, whilst keeping an eye on the protein. I found I'm not eating as much as the numbers suggest. At the end of week, figs average out at:

Protein 156 g/day (31% cals from protein) Carb 247g/day (50% cals from carb) Fat 44 g/day (20% cals from fat) 2008kcal/day.

Having worked out I'd need 3128 kcal to be running 15% deficit, it turns out I'm actually running at 35% deficit.

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Current Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Thinking of sticking approx 2000 kcal/day (I feel like I'm eating plenty) but leaving out the cardio (seeing as I haven't started it!), and see how I feel over the next week now the manflu has gone.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 2 Review

Last week's figures (Sun - Fri, Sat is a day "off"):

Protein 163 g/day (35% cals from protein) Carb 232g/day (50% cals from carb) Fat 32 g/day (15% cals from fat) 1888kcal/day. Protein up a bit, fat down a bit.

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Current Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Enjoying the Sat off - three slices of toast with marmalade for breakfast, yum yum yum  Other meals pretty much the same, but a few beers at night (3 pints).

Slowly adding weight to UBW, and last night (29th), belt buckle "slipped" into the next hole down.

Still haven't started cardio, but am deliberately more active throughout the day. Need to get the LBW sorted, maybe buy some squat stands.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 3 Review

Been reading/viewing lots of diet articles/vids (either here or linked to from here), much of which of which can appear a little confusing - I'm not 100% sure whether I'm wanting to go low fat or low carb, or how much protein I should be taking in, so sticking at 160g protein /day (just because I read it in a book) and keeping cals constant, but best of all, I'm also managing to eat things such as cheese on toast, peanut butter & banana sanwich...

Typical day:

Breakfast:Toast, banana, coffee, then some fruit through morning.

Luch:Tuna salad.

Dinner: chicken & veg.

Evening: Cheese on toast 

Past week's figs: 1968 kcal/day, 233g carbs, 41g fat, protein 165g.

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Current Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Have introduced 3rd workout (pilates abs exercises/deadlifts), weight belt was getting a bit loose and is down another hole.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

4 weeks in, day off, just did my UBW which is now:

Reps (kg)

Bench Press: ( 12 (30), 10 (40), 8 (50), 6 (60), 12 (50).

Dumbell Flyes: 12 (7.25).

Dumbell Row: 12 (12.5), 10 (15), 8 (17.5), 6 (20), 12 (17.5).

Bent Over Row* 12 (17.5).

Standing Barbell Press: 12 (20), 10 (27.5), 8 (35), 6 (42.5), 12 (35).

Dumbell Side Raise: 12 (5).

E-Z Bar Curls: 12 (20), 10 (22.5), 8 (25), 6 (27.5), 12 (21) (weight on bar).

Hammer Curls: 12 (5).

Tricep Ext: 12 (7.5), 10 (10), 8 (12.5), 6 (15), 12 (12.5).

Tricep Kickback: 12 (2.5)

I think I'm going to tweak this - change to full body 3 times per week, drop the secondary exercise and add a leg exercise. Weigh-in in the morning.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Dumbell Row* - now there's an exercise that I "just don't get"!

Had a look at the Stronglifts site - I don't have plates of big enough diameter for that, even I did they'd be too heavy, and even if I could lift them the mrs would go sactty at me banging (resting) them on the floor between reps.

Found another way by Gabriel Sey on youtube (won't post link as post will go for moderating) - doesn't look as extreme as the Stronglifts technique, but still feel as though I'm about to ruin my back.

Found yet another way on Youtube by Chrissy Zmijewski whichI've found to be the least bad/least uncomfortable by far! Even though I've dropped the weight down a bit, still seems as though I'm stressing my self.

Overall, whichever way I try, the "Barbell Row" seems like an accident waiting to happen!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 4 Review

If someone had offered me a deal 4 weeks ago and guaranteed me that I'd have lost 3.5 kg by today, I'd have accepted it. Have to say though that I'm a little disappointed that the weightloss appears to be slowing (even though I expected it to!). To add some cardio this week I think.

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 1971 kcal/day, 250g carbs (53%), 28g fat (13%), protein 159g (34%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Current Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Wasn't doing the 2 ubw 1 lbw per week alternating with 1 ub 2lbw per week as initially planned, so changing to 3 x per week full body. Would have preferred to have the whole weekend off, but am out all day tomorrow so it's either today or wait until Tue.

First full body workout:

Reps (kg)

Bench Press: 12 (31), 10 (41), 8 (51), 6 (61), 12 (51).

Dumbell Row: 12 (10), 10 (15), 8 (20), 6 (25), 12 (20).

Standing Barbell Press: 12 (20), 10 (27.5), 8 (35), 6 (42.5), 12 (35).*

Deadlifts: 12 (20), 10 (30), 8 (40), 6 (50), 12 (40) (Weight on EZ bar).

E-Z Bar Curls: 12 (20), 10 (22.5), 8 (25), 6 (27.5), 12 (21) (weight on bar).

* Didn't think I'd manage this having only just managed to complete the final set on Fri, but went o.k.

Will build the deadlifts up slowly to make sure knees don't suffer (but legs clearly need working on!).


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## dan23 (Jul 29, 2014)

well done with the progress so far!

the diet macros are very confusing for me too. at the moment i'm trying to keep it to low carb, high protein, which has been working as long as I stick within my daily cals.

As I side note I much prefer bent over rows to single arm rows.... one of my favourite exercises actually.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Thanks dan, still have a long long way to go though!

For my macros, I'm pretty much sticking to 2000kcal/day - 160g/protein (approx 1.6g/kg), and working around that. I prefer to feel that I have actually eaten something, so the rest tends to be bulky but low fat.

Really don't get how anyone can enjoy barbell rows - just feels like I'm trying to snap myself


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Managed to reclaim the turbo trainer for my bike that I'd loaned out, and managed 20 min on it last night (by christ I'm unfit!).

20 min:

5 min warmup

5 x 1 min on, 2 min off.

Aiming for 100 RPM for the min "on" (but only achieving 90 - 92).


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 5 Review

Done 3 x FBW and 2 x cardio (turbo trainer sessions). Started to get the legs spinning at 100rpm again on the second session. Had intended for a third session on Fri, but felt as though I'd been on a long ride and bonked - couldn't stop thinking about food!

Adding weight to exercises where I feel I can:

Bench Press: 12 (33.5), 10 (43.5), 8 (53.5), 6 (63.5), 12 (53.5).

Dumbell Row: 12 (11), 10 (16), 8 (21), 6 (26), 12 (21).

Standing Barbell Press: 12 (20), 10 (27.5), 8 (35), 6 (42.5), 12 (35).

Deadlifts: 12 (20), 10 (30), 8 (40), 6 (50), 12 (40). (Total weight inc barbell).*

E-Z Bar Curls: 12 (21), 10 (23.5), 8 (26), 6 (28.5), 12 (23.5) (weight on E-Z bar).

Think I'm going to have to wind some 125g coils or something for the standing press!

I've actually dropped some weight for the deadlifts - on Tuesday's session, I could feel that I was putting more force through my left leg as right knee was twinging. Felt better during Fridays session and knee is beginning to feel stronger when out and about (R knee has had multiple surgeries in the past and needs to be "managed").

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 1893 kcal/day, 2237g carbs (53%), 23g fat (11%), protein 157g (35%).

Fat might be a bit low, but today is my day off and I'm making up for it - cheese on toast for lunch & huge steak for dinner tonight. I love Satudays 

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Current Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 kg


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 1893 kcal/day, 2237g carbs (53%), 23g fat (11%), protein 157g (35%).


Just skimmed through your log. You didn't ask for advice but this rather jumped out at me so I thought I'd post - feel free to tell me to butt out!

Your current fat intake is very low. I'd suggest increasing your fat intake to at least 20% of total calories. Low fat intake can have an adverse affect on your hormones, including testosterone.

Edit: spotted you'd commented on the low fat yourself. Personally I wouldn't let it drop below 20% on any day. This includes fat from all sources though, not just obviously fatty foods.

Good luck in reaching your goals.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

As I've already stuck my nose in...

If it helps, this is a good video on how to row. What is particularly good is the way it discusses how to actually correctly make your lats the focus of the exercise:






In terms of training you've made a good decision by switching to whole body training. What complicates things is your knee issues. I'd normally recommend Stronglifts over what your are doing, but in your case focusing on heavy leg work may not be wise. You say you are deadlifting using an EZ bar though? Possibly you didn't mean that, but if you did, stop.

Finally, I would always go with sets across (e.g. 3 sets of 10 reps) over the ramped approach you are currently using. Your current approach means you are doing relatively little work at your heaviest weights, which are the reps that matter most.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just skimmed through your log. You didn't ask for advice but this rather jumped out at me so I thought I'd post - feel free to tell me to butt out!
> 
> Your current fat intake is very low. I'd suggest increasing your fat intake to at least 20% of total calories. Low fat intake can have an adverse affect on your hormones, including testosterone.
> 
> ...


Not at all - thanks for taking the time to read and comment.

I am aware that the fat is low and goes against pretty much everything I've read, but struggling to see how to up the fat and keep the cals at 2000. My trouble is, I like to feel I've eaten something so would rather eat a bag of boiled rice than a spoonfull of peanut butter so to speak!

My figs are for 6 days, Sat is my day off - had ceese on toast, 350 g steak, pudding... (though I do note your 20% on any day).

I've attached a typical day's intake (I hope)...


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> As I've already stuck my nose in...
> 
> If it helps, this is a good video on how to row. What is particularly good is the way it discusses how to actually correctly make your lats the focus of the exercise:
> 
> ...


I started with EZ just because I train at home and didn't have a mat wide enough for the barbell! Have heavy duty rummer matting now and using the barbell 

Will watch the link and give it a try, though I'm planning on getting a cage soon and building up to pullups.

Right knee is a bit of a state after 2 x ACL repairs and 2 x arthroscopies, physi agrees that it's a case of "use it or lose it" and needs to be kept active, but also listened to!

What I like about the ramped approach I currently use is that each increment seems difficult, but dropping down from the high point and upping the reps seems easier! Whether it's psychological or some physiological effect I've no idea. I have been thinking recently about changing things to the ramped approach followed by 3 x 6 - kind of like a "5 x 5 lite". I think I'm going to keep it as it isincrementing the weight gradually until I've got a cage, then I can go for the 3 x 10 without having to drop back down/worrying about doing the roll of shame.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> I am aware that the fat is low and goes against pretty much everything I've read, but struggling to see how to up the fat and keep the cals at 2000. My trouble is, I like to feel I've eaten something so would rather eat a bag of boiled rice than a spoonfull of peanut butter so to speak!


I totally understand what you mean, and to be honest you're doing the best thing to address this already by eating lots of vegatables (which have lots of fibre but few calories). This veg. should though enable you to drop your total carbs while still feeling like you've eaten. There is also the possibility that fewer carbs and more fats may actually make you feel less hungry, but not promises!

Thre are a lot of errors in the macros for the example day's food you have posted. Are you just worrying about total calories and ignoring the rest? If so you are probably OK, but if you're looking at the other totals you need to fix this. For example you have a Strawberry and Yoghurt bar that has 120 calories but zero carbs, fat or protein...

Carbs that don't help to fill you up are sugars, so I'd be looking to reduces these to increase fats. The obvious candidates for change are the yoghurts and yoghurt bars. Sugar free jelly is my go to food to satisfy my sweet tooth when cutting BTW. Ways to add fat to your diet include the nuts you suggested, replacing some tuna with oily fish like salmon or sardines (also good for your health due to omega-3 content), having e.g. pesto with your chicken rather than gravy. Things like oats also have more fat than you probably think. Are you having your bread dry BTW? If you're putting any margerine/butter on it then obviously that is fat you're already having.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> I started with EZ just because I train at home and didn't have a mat wide enough for the barbell! Have heavy duty rummer matting now and using the barbell


Good! It's impossible to deadlift properly with an EZ bar as you couldn't possibly get the right grip, and the shape would prevent you keeping the bar against your legs as you lift, which you need to be doing.



> Will watch the link and give it a try, though I'm planning on getting a cage soon and building up to pullups.


Doing rows and pullups on different days would be a good plan.



> Right knee is a bit of a state after 2 x ACL repairs and 2 x arthroscopies, physi agrees that it's a case of "use it or lose it" and needs to be kept active, but also listened to!


Sounds like something you want to be very careful of, and check with your physio quite what is appropriate. It's way outside my experience to suggest what is sensible.



> What I like about the ramped approach I currently use is that each increment seems difficult, but dropping down from the high point and upping the reps seems easier! Whether it's psychological or some physiological effect I've no idea. I have been thinking recently about changing things to the ramped approach followed by 3 x 6 - kind of like a "5 x 5 lite". I think I'm going to keep it as it isincrementing the weight gradually until I've got a cage, then I can go for the 3 x 10 without having to drop back down/worrying about doing the roll of shame.


You want to have warm-up sets, so some ramp up is always sensible, but these should not wear you out to limit the working sets (the ones at heavier weight that actually stimulate growth). As you rightly point out you need to train safely though, and so not pushing yourself until you have your cage is absolutely the right thing to do.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey @Taranu just seen your thread. I am in for sure mate :thumb: Keep the good work up buddy.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Great progress and I'm subbed ..would just echo keep your fats up for testosterone . I avoided fats on my first serious diet and ended up with low testosterone verified by blood work ..three weeks after adding in fats it had more than doubled .


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

nitricdave said:


> Great progress and I'm subbed ..would just echo keep your fats up for testosterone . I avoided fats on my first serious diet and ended up with low testosterone verified by blood work ..three weeks after adding in fats it had more than doubled .


Interesting for this to have been confirmed so clearly. What was your level of fat intake before and after? (Not wanting to derail this log, but hopefully this will be of interest to the OP too.)


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Interesting for this to have been confirmed so clearly. What was your level of fat intake before and after? (Not wanting to derail this log, but hopefully this will be of interest to the OP too.)


I'd say I wasn't getting more fat than the lean chicken was being fried in...that and fat on a juicy steak cheat meal once a week. Not knowing any better I was on a rice chicken and veg diet. The odd thing is I was low t high e2, estrogen didn't get hit also.. Just the good stuff. When my t went up my estrogen actually dropped a bit too. I also felt as you'd expect.. Crap.. Once I started eating fats I knew my low t was sorted. OP you say you want to feel like you ate something.. Fats will help you feel full.. Avocados are now a favourite of mine along with salmon


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I totally understand what you mean, and to be honest you're doing the best thing to address this already by eating lots of vegatables (which have lots of fibre but few calories). This veg. should though enable you to drop your total carbs while still feeling like you've eaten. There is also the possibility that fewer carbs and more fats may actually make you feel less hungry, but not promises!
> 
> Thre are a lot of errors in the macros for the example day's food you have posted. Are you just worrying about total calories and ignoring the rest? If so you are probably OK, but if you're looking at the other totals you need to fix this. For example you have a Strawberry and Yoghurt bar that has *120 calories but zero carbs, fat or protein...*
> 
> Carbs that don't help to fill you up are sugars, so I'd be looking to reduces these to increase fats. The obvious candidates for change are the yoghurts and yoghurt bars. Sugar free jelly is my go to food to satisfy my sweet tooth when cutting BTW. Ways to add fat to your diet include the nuts you suggested, replacing some tuna with oily fish like salmon or sardines (also good for your health due to omega-3 content), having e.g. pesto with your chicken rather than gravy. Things like oats also have more fat than you probably think. Are you having your bread dry BTW? If you're putting any margerine/butter on it then obviously that is fat you're already having.


What a keen eye you've got - I neber noticed that.

I've already changed from rice and chicken to chicken & veg. Will get some pesto - been looking for a change from Bisto, but justify it on the grounds that it's some fat!

For my macros, I've been aiming at 160g protien as that's what I read in Anita Bean's book - but acording to her book I should also be on 3100 kcal - so maybe I've missed something along the way. Bread is dry - no margerine/butter, and I also changed from tuna in oil to tuna in brine to keep the cals down. I could quite easily go back to margarine & marmalade on toast in the morning and tuna in oil though! Worth a try?


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

andyhuggins said:


> Hey @Taranu just seen your thread. I am in for sure mate :thumb: Keep the good work up buddy.


Thanks for reading.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Interesting for this to have been confirmed so clearly. What was your level of fat intake before and after? (Not wanting to derail this log, but hopefully this will be of interest to the OP too.)


Don't worry about it - keep the info coming.

Something I'll mention is that on Fri this past week, and the Thu last week, I felt absolutely starving and took on approx 2500 kcal. Although I'm aiming for 2000/day, I'm anything between 1800 - 2000, with that one day/week at 2500, so I haven't quite got the diet sorted yet.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> Don't worry about it - keep the info coming.
> 
> Something I'll mention is that on Fri this past week, and the Thu last week, I felt absolutely starving and took on approx 2500 kcal. Although I'm aiming for 2000/day, I'm anything between 1800 - 2000, with that one day/week at 2500, so I haven't quite got the diet sorted yet.


2000 kcal per day seems very low for someone your size to be honest. If you need to go that low to lose fat then do so, but if you could eat more and still lose you'd be better off. This is because over time your body will adapt to the lower calorie intake and you'll find that the rate of fat loss will slow. When this happens you'll need to reduce your calorie intake further. If you eat too little, too soon, you have less scope for such future reductions.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Have recalculated TDEE using IIFYM calculator (Sun 19/04/15). Maybe I have been under- eating a bit:



















As a percentage: Carbs 57.3%, Potein 21.5%, Fat 21.1%. Protein seems lower than what's usually recommended on here...

Added some peanut butter to the breakfast, salad dressing to my lunch... today's figs: kcal 2090 Carb 199 (38%), Fat 61 (26%), Protein 155 (30%). Maybe a bit all over the place!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Did this week's first weight session on Sun. I was intending to keep going as I have been, but once I got started, was overcome by the urge to try the 3x "straight across." Workout ended up as:

Bench Press: 12 (35), 10 (45), 8 (55), 3 x 6 (65).

Dumbell Row: 12 (12), 10 (17), 8 (22), 3 x 6 (27).

Standing Barbell Press: 12 (20), 10 (27.5), 8 (35), 3 x 6 (42.5).

Deadlifts: 12 (20), 10 (30), 8 (40), 3 x 6 (50).

I found that quite draining, so dropped the curls off the list of exercises. Dumbell row felt a bit too heavy but decided to keep it at that for now. Other than that, the weights were manageable so kept them at that and tried for 3 x 8 on Tuesday's session:

Bench Press: 12 (35), 10 (45), 8 (55), 3 x 8 (65).

Dumbell Row: 12 (12), 10 (17), 8 (22), 3 x 6 (27).

Standing Barbell Press: 12 (20), 10 (27.5), 8 (35), 3 x 7 (7, 7, 6) (42.5).

Deadlifts: 12 (20), 10 (30), 8 (40), 3 x 6 (50).

Weight was manageable, but was feeling a strain in my left hand as though the bar was going to dislocate my thumb on the bench press - decided to back it off some.

Tonight's session:

Bench Press: 12 (30), 10 (40), 8 (50), 3 x 10 (60).

Dumbell Row: 12 (10), 10 (15), 8 (20), 3 x 10 (25).

Standing Barbell Press: 12 (10), 10 (20), 8 (30), 3 x 10 (10, 10, 6+4) (40).

Deadlifts: 10 (20), 8 (30), 3 x 10 (40). (Knee seems to be getting stronger, but also feeling a few more twinges - backed off and will reduce this to to twice/week.

Going to use this as a "start point" and slowly add weight.

Power cage has arrived and gives me something to "hang off", think I'm going to drop the dumbell rows for chin/pull ups (which in reality will only be the negative part for a while). I'm also finding this 4 compound exercises to quite draining, so thinking maybe changing to a "push day, pull day, day off weights, push day, pull day,weekend off weights" and doing squats on the first push and deadlifts on the second pull, with each workout being 3 x compound and 1 x smaller/lighter isolation exercise. Any thoughts?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Taranu said:


> Have recalculated TDEE using IIFYM calculator (Sun 19/04/15). Maybe I have been under- eating a bit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're in a deficit you'd probably want your protein a little higher, however - its entirely upto you.

It sucks being at such low kcals, I know the feel. When I was 139 lbs I was down to 1350kcals 4x a week, was brutal. Practically had 50g carbs a day, lol.

I'd up your proteins a bit, drop fats by 5g to keep carbs a lil higher and ensure you're getting fish oils (EFA's etc) - If you already are getting EFA's, great!


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

If I was dieting, I'd never have carbs higher than protein. Think 60% is far too much.

One thing I never do also, eat carbs first thing.

Not sure if it's a scientific fact but as soon as you eat carbs after you've been sleeping, you'll use those carbs for energy, rather than your own fat stores. That's my way of thinking anyway.Protein and fat only for me unless I've been training.

Good luck with the diet mate!


----------



## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> If you're in a deficit you'd probably want your protein a little higher, however - its entirely upto you.
> 
> It sucks being at such low kcals, I know the feel. When I was 139 lbs I was down to 1350kcals 4x a week, was brutal. Practically had 50g carbs a day, lol.
> 
> I'd up your proteins a bit, drop fats by 5g to keep carbs a lil higher and ensure you're getting fish oils (EFA's etc) - If you already are getting EFA's, great!


I'm going with IIFYM total cals, and aiming at that level of fat also (fat has been quite low for the past few weeks), but seem to be averaging around 160g protein/day. I seem to be getting by fine at this calorific value, though it seems that once/week I end feeling like I've bonked on a long bike ride and end up taking in another 500 or so! I'm writing out my weekly averages though which are not too far off...


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

sen said:


> If I was dieting, I'd never have carbs higher than protein. Think 60% is far too much.
> 
> One thing I never do also, eat carbs first thing.
> 
> ...


I'm quite happy on my tuna/salad/red kidney beans, and chicken with broccli & cauliflour, but I think giving up the toast and cofee in the morning would break me!


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Taranu said:


> I'm quite happy on my tuna/salad/red kidney beans, and chicken with broccli & cauliflour, but I think giving up the toast and cofee in the morning would break me!


Long as you're getting results mate. That's all that matters.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

sen said:


> If I was dieting, I'd never have carbs higher than protein. Think 60% is far too much.
> 
> One thing I never do also, eat carbs first thing.
> 
> ...


Come on man, you're smarter than this, lol.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> Come on man, you're smarter than this, lol.


Pretty sure I read it on pscarb website. Also a Ben pak video on YouTube he says protein fat and veg is the optimal breakfast, not something with oatmeal.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

sen said:


> Pretty sure I read it on pscarb website. Also a Ben pak video on YouTube he says protein fat and veg is the optimal breakfast, not something with oatmeal.


B-pak, lolz.

None of these people know what actual science is, b-pak gets torn apart on Facebook all the time, anyway - this guys log isn't the place for it - if you want to continue (you probably don't care enough) PM me.

But to summarise for OP:

Carb timing is irrelevant for fat loss, or anything of the sort. Eat them when you want.

As long as you're in a deficit, your results will be the same.

Carbs can be higher than protein.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> Carb timing is irrelevant for fat loss, or anything of the sort. Eat them when you want.
> 
> As long as you're in a deficit, your results will be the same.
> 
> Carbs can be higher than protein.


It's like music to my ears


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> B-pak, lolz.
> 
> None of these people know what actual science is, b-pak gets torn apart on Facebook all the time, anyway - this guys log isn't the place for it - if you want to continue (you probably don't care enough) PM me.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... Pro bodybuilder or 'coach' who charges £30 a month.... Who do I think knows best.... Tough one!

Anyway, I'll stick with what I think cos what I've done has worked.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

sen said:


> Hmmm... Pro bodybuilder or 'coach' who charges £30 a month.... Who do I think knows best.... Tough one!
> 
> Anyway, I'll stick with what I think cos what I've done has worked.


Nice logic. Lets ignore all the science and nutritional gurus who are smarter than you, I, Pscarb and B-pak put together x100.

"What I've done has worked."

Probably the worst thing to use as an argument why someone should do something, lol.


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## the wee man (Dec 17, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> B-pak, lolz.
> 
> None of these people know what actual science is, b-pak gets torn apart on Facebook all the time, anyway - this guys log isn't the place for it - if you want to continue (you probably don't care enough) PM me.
> 
> ...


aaaahhhhh Diet Jesus :thumbup1:

when it's time to fine tune my cutting diet...

i'll be pm'ing you Tommy srs

cheers shaun


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 6 Review

Following last weeks recommendations (thanks for the comments), I've upped the fat and total calories. I was aiming at 2171 kcal/day (gone a bit over but not too concerned about that...). Maybe not surprisingly, generally, I'm feeling more energetic.

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2229 kcal/day, 255g carbs (48%), 45g fat (19%), protein 179g (33%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 kg

Current Weight (25/04/15) 93.9 kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Last week, I was finding the FBW quite draining and just wanted it to end by the time I got to the fourth (final) exercise (deadlifts). Have changed the order of the exercise and replaced dumbell rows with chin ups*, also all sets are now 10 reps.

Tonight's session:

Bench Press: 10 (30), 10 (40), 10 (50), 3 x 10 (60).

Standing Barbell Press: 10 (10), 10 (20), 10 (30), 3 x 10 (10, 9+1, 6+4) (40).

Deadlifts: 10 (20), 10 (30), 3 x 10 (40).

Chin Ups* 4 x 8

* Aye right! Step off the bench into the "up" position and lower self under control. Last set I was pretty much in free-fall!

I'm still feeling a strain in my left wrist at 50/60 kg. Thought it might have been the thickness of the gloves, but it's just the same bare hand. Going to cut it right back rather than risk injury - deadlifting 40kg as I don't want to risk knees, standing press at 40kg as that's just about all I can manage, think I'm going to drop the B.P. down to 40 also.


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## dan23 (Jul 29, 2014)

Taranu said:


> Chin Ups* 4 x 8
> 
> * Aye right! Step off the bench into the "up" position and lower self under control. Last set I was pretty much in free-fall!


* negative chins

a good steeping stone to the full chin up  something I really struggle with myself!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

dan23 said:


> * negative chins
> 
> a good steeping stone to the full chin up  something I really struggle with myself!


Glad I'm not the only one!

Week 7 - have added another min of "on" to the turbo session, and reduced the "off" to 1 min. Now doing:

5 min warm up

7 x 1 min on (100rpm)/ 1 min off.

20 min total.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Nothing in the tank tonight!

It was a struggle just to get started, feeling a bit achy and tired, but thought it'd be o.k. once I'd warmed up.

Started off well enough - decided to replace bench press with press ups to give the wrist a bit of a break:

Press ups: 3 x 20 + 4 x 10

Standing Barbell Press: 10 (10), 10 (20), 10 (30), 40kg - managed a whole 4 reps and realized there was nothing there.

Negative Chins - pretty much free-fall to the ground without offering too much resistance.

Accepted defeat, first "bad" workout in 7 weeks. Going to have an early night.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

See how you get on with negative chin-ups, but personally I never made much progress with them and did far better using resistance bands to provide assistance. It will depend how much assistance you need, but I used these (which I'd initially bought for rotator cuff work):

100% NATURAL LATEX TUBES, Columbia-BookfestÂ®Power Cords Resistance Bands 11pc Set, Ideal For Home Fitness, Yoga, Pilates, Abs, P90x & Workout with workout guide. Part of the Columbia-BookfestÂ® PowerCord products.: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoor


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> See how you get on with negative chin-ups, but personally I never made much progress with them and did far better using resistance bands to provide assistance. *It will depend how much assistance you need,* but I used these (which I'd initially bought for rotator cuff work):
> 
> 100% NATURAL LATEX TUBES, Columbia-BookfestÂ®Power Cords Resistance Bands 11pc Set, Ideal For Home Fitness, Yoga, Pilates, Abs, P90x & Workout with workout guide. Part of the Columbia-BookfestÂ® PowerCord products.: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoor


Lots!

I'm going to give it a few weeks, but can imagine going this way at somepoint.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> Lots!
> 
> I'm going to give it a few weeks, but can imagine going this way at somepoint.


Think I could do about one and a half chin-ups when I started, but using the bands for assistance they were enough to let me make sensible progression. I now do weighted chin-ups. It's an underated exercise IMHO.

(For pull-ups I ended up buying a second set as I couldn't do a single one...)


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 7 Review

Started off well enough with a decent weights session last Sun and turbo session on Mon, but went downhill from there...

Have a niggle to my left wrist when doing bench press, so only did press ups on Tue. Beside that, felt weak during Tuesday's weights session and there was no "fight" at all when doing barbell press. Took Wed & Thu off, felt ready for another weights session on Fri.

Bench Press: 10 (30), 10 (40), 3 x 10 (50).

Press ups: 20, 20, 15.

Standing Barbell Press: 10 (10), 10 (20), 10 (30), 3 x 10 (10, 7 + 3, 7 + 3) (40).

Deadlifts: 3 x 10 (40).

Negative Chin Ups 4 x 8.

I didn't feel as though I was giving it too much on the bench press, but wrist playing up - have tried holding the bar with both a full grip and thumb on the same side as fingers (worse). Going to give bench press a miss next week and do press ups.

Standing Press: haven't changed the weight for a couple of weeks but neitrher is it getting any easier! Going to drop it to 35kg and build up from there.

Deadlifts: knees seem ok withthis at twice/week.Can start to add some weight.

Negative Chins: Definitely feel like I've put in some effort after these. Will keep at it for a few weeks and see how it goes...

Could do with being a bit more strict on the diet for the next week - after toninght and my weekly allowance of 3 pints of Erdinger :beer:

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2275 kcal/day, 263g carbs (46%), 59g fat (23%), protein 173g (30%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 k

Weight (25/04/15) 93.9 kg

Current Weight (02/05/15) 93.6 kg

5 weeks and 2.8 kg to go to meet first target.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Think I could do about one and a half chin-ups when I started, but using the bands for assistance they were enough to let me make sensible progression. I now do weighted chin-ups. It's an underated exercise IMHO.
> 
> (For pull-ups I ended up buying a second set as I couldn't do a single one...)


That's about one and a half more than I can manage at the min!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> That's about one and a half more than I can manage at the min!


The good news is the more weight you lose the easier it will get  .

Regarding your wrist issues on bench press, you may want to look at your grip width, where you're lowering the bar too and what you're doing with your elbows. This was the first video I could find quickly on You Tube that should give you the idea:






Not sure if you have previous knee issues holding you back, but if not it is very odd that your deadlift is lighter than your bench press - you should be able to deadlift much more than you can bench press. Form is again key, and if it helps this is an excellent video explaining the technique:






(Not meaning to distract from your log but hopefully some of this may be helpful.)


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Regarding your wrist issues on bench press, you may want to look at your grip width, where you're lowering the bar too and what you're doing with your elbows. This was the first video I could find quickly on You Tube that should give you the idea:


You might be onto something there. I've been using a York 520 bench which seems to be wider than most beginner home benches - holds the bar just where my hands want to go. Inside I find a bit too narrow so been placing hands outside the posts resulting in arms going out at an angle, then wrists cocked to grip the bar. Going to give it the week off just for things to settle and then use a narrower grip.



Ultrasonic said:


> Not sure if you have previous knee issues holding you back, but if not it is very odd that your deadlift is lighter than your bench press - you should be able to deadlift much more than you can bench press. Form is again key, and if it helps this is an excellent video explaining the technique:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know the deadlift is light compared to the bench press - just wanted to get into it at a light weight to see if knee could handle it. Will start to slowly add some weight now and see how things go...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> I know the deadlift is light compared to the bench press - just wanted to get into it at a light weight to see if knee could handle it. Will start to slowly add some weight now and see how things go...


Don't worry about it at all if you have an injury you're working around. Be sensible.

The fact that you are deadlifting at the end of a workout won't help either, but if your priorities lie elsewhere that's fine.


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## barksie (Nov 23, 2014)

hi

having been where you are last may 2014 , i was 56 years old, a big 38"waist, a short 5 feet 5 inch and heavy for height 14 stone , when i started the gym, now im 57 and almost a year later after starting gym, i went from those stats to 32 inch waist, 11 stone 10 pounds, in 3 months, all i did was cardio, every day 1 hour per day, rowing 10 minutes, treadmill 10 minutes, bike 10 minutes, cross trainer 10 minutes, back to treadmill doing uphill walking for 20 minutes, thats all i did, diet wise, i only drank water , i only ate veg, chicken, turkey, oats, 1 glass milk a day, no alcohol, no fizzy drinks, now its upto you, but maybe best to trim down like i did, then hit the weights, i have now doubled the weight i could lift, press or push at the beginning , i dont do cardio now as i do 1 1/2 hour or 2 hours on weights 3 times a week, and my heart rate is fairly rapid for all that time, hope you dont mind my input, just my two pennies worth

steve


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

barksie said:


> hi
> 
> having been where you are last may 2014 , i was 56 years old, a big 38"waist, a short 5 feet 5 inch and heavy for height 14 stone , when i started the gym, now im 57 and almost a year later after starting gym, i went from those stats to 32 inch waist, 11 stone 10 pounds, in 3 months, all i did was cardio, every day 1 hour per day, rowing 10 minutes, treadmill 10 minutes, bike 10 minutes, cross trainer 10 minutes, back to treadmill doing uphill walking for 20 minutes, thats all i did, diet wise, i only drank water , i only ate veg, chicken, turkey, oats, 1 glass milk a day, no alcohol, no fizzy drinks, now its upto you, but maybe best to trim down like i did, then hit the weights, i have now doubled the weight i could lift, press or push at the beginning , i dont do cardio now as i do 1 1/2 hour or 2 hours on weights 3 times a week, and my heart rate is fairly rapid for all that time, hope you dont mind my input, just my two pennies worth
> 
> steve


32lbs in three month is good going :thumbup1: Going to stick to the weights for now though - apart from anything else, I enjoy it.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 8 Review

Again the week started off well enough with the first weights session on Mon, but was still aching on Wed so gave that up. Also sore inside of the elbows from negative chins, so gave fri a miss too. It's a bit frustrating as it's not through a lack of motivation/can't be bothered, but aches & pains! On the plus side, diet not too bad:

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2047 kcal/day, 240.5g carbs (47%), 51g fat (22.4%), protein 156.5g (30.6%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 kg

Weight (25/04/15) 93.9 kg

Weight (02/05/15) 93.6 kg

Current weight (09/05/15) 92.8 kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 9 Review

I've deliberately taken a step back with the workouts this weekdue to issues with wrist from bench press and fore-arm from negative chins. This week was just the three exercises, Friday's session:

Bench Press: 10 (30), 10 (40), 3 x 10 (50).

Deadlifts: 10 (25) 10 (40) 3 x 10 (55).

Standing Barbell Press: 10 (15), 10 (25), 3 x 10 (35).

I'm now using the power cage for bench press which allows a narrower grip - no issues so far, will increase weight slowly.

Deadlift - feels like the weak link is my grip! Knees are fine, but grip is a bit weak.

Standing Press - ready to increase this slowly.

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2208 kcal/day, 267g carbs (48.4%), 52g fat (21.2%), protein 168g (30.4%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 kg

Weight (25/04/15) 93.9 kg

Weight (02/05/15) 93.6 kg

Weight (09/05/15) 92.8 kg

Current Weght (16/05/15) 92.5 kg

I tried Erdinger alcohol free - quite nice actually and doesn't give me the munchies, so day off wasn't as "destructive " this week


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 10 Review

Upped weight slightly* (I did say slowly!) and kept it that for all this weeks workouts:

Bench Press: 10 (32.5), 10 (42.5), 3 x 10 (52.5).

Deadlifts: 10 (25) 10 (40) 3 x 10 (55).

Standing Barbell Press: 10 (16), 10 (26), 3 x 10 (36).

* Except deadlift, it took until the end of the week for this to be "comfortable" and feel ready to up this as well now. Three exercises doesn't seem like enough, but have to leave out the curls/chins for now as forarm is still sore. Will try some dumbell rows and see how that feels.

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2114 kcal/day, 260g carbs (49.2%), 46g fat (19.6%), protein 165g (31.2%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 kg

Weight (25/04/15) 93.9 kg

Weight (02/05/15) 93.6 kg

Weight (09/05/15) 92.8 kg

Weght (16/05/15) 92.5 kg

Current Weight (23/05/15) 91.8 kg

Two weeks to go, will he make the -0.75 kg/week for 12 weeks? Looks like it's going to be a close run thing


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 11 Review

I'm obviously past the "honeymoon period" with this. Didn't bother with any rows, figured two weeks wouldn't make much difference and was still feeling some niggle, so decided to leave it completely until the 12 weeks is up.

This past weeks workouts:

Bench Press: 10 (35), 10 (45), 3 x 10 (55).

Deadlifts: 10 (27.5) 10 (42.5) 3 x 10 (57.5).

Standing Barbell Press: 10 (17.5), 10 (27.5), 3 x 10 (37.5).

It's starting to look like a 5 x 5 workout - I think I'm going to change to some sort of 5 x 5 from next week.

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2154 kcal/day, 268g carbs (49.8%), 48.5g fat (20.2%), protein 161.5g (30%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Weight (21/03/15) 97 kg

Weight (28/03/15) 96.3 kg

Weight (4/4/15) 95.9 kg

Weight (11/4/15) 95.6kg

Weight (18/01/17) 94.7 kg

Weight (25/04/15) 93.9 kg

Weight (02/05/15) 93.6 kg

Weight (09/05/15) 92.8 kg

Weght (16/05/15) 92.5 kg

Weight (23/05/15) 91.8 kg

Current Weight (23/05/15) 91.4 kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Curiosity killed the cat...

Decided on a change to 5 x 5 type workout, but want to stick to full body. Tonight's session:

Deadlifts 5 x 5 60kg

Bench Press 5 x 5 57.5 kg

Standing Barbell Press 5 x 5 40kg

Barbell Row 5 x 5 20 kg (I'm really not a fan of this exercise!)

It would have been negative chins instead of rows, but arm still niggling almost a month later. Weights follow on from last week's workouts, and are what I would have used anyway at 3 x 10. Intend to alternate deadlifts with squats, (just happened to start with DL). Feels "strange" not going on for 10 reps...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> Curiosity killed the cat...
> 
> Decided on a change to 5 x 5 type workout, but want to stick to full body. Tonight's session:
> 
> ...


If you think your knees are up to it then I definitely think switching to 5x5 style training is a good move :thumbup1: .

If you are going to do this though I'd suggest you seriously consider following Stronglifts, which is a well structured routine. I suspect you weren't truly pushing yourself close to your 5 rep max. weights, but if you were then the routine you tried above would be brutal.

If you are really struggling with barbell rows then I'd consider trying dumbbell rows instead. When you feel you can try chin-ups again I'd add these at the end of the Stronglifts workout with deadlifts. If you injured yourself doing negatives I think the resistance bands I suggested earlier in the thread may be worth a try FWIW.

Keep up the good work  .


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Just thought, if you're planning to alternate deadlifts and squats as find deadlifts easier on your knees, stick with this plan.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you think your knees are up to it then I definitely think switching to 5x5 style training is a good move :thumbup1: .


I deliberately started the leg exercise slowly/gently - warm up sets, 1 x 6 at 50, then 3 x 6 at 50 kg, then upped the reps to 3 x 10 but dropped weight to 40kg, and have slowly taken it up to 60 kg over the past few weeks. Knees are actually feeling better during day to day use 



Ultrasonic said:


> If you are going to do this though I'd suggest you seriously consider following Stronglifts, which is a well structured routine. I suspect you weren't truly pushing yourself close to your 5 rep max. weights, but if you were then the routine you tried above would be brutal.


I keep looking at it, but it gives me some serious o.c.d. issues  I mean, that 1 x 5 so obviously doesn't fit!

I do like the deadlifts though, so would like to alternate them with squats just for that reason . Clearly not at 5 rep max weight yet, it actually felt as though I was stopping to soon - maybe not surprising as I'm still in the 3 x 10 range really.



Ultrasonic said:


> If you are really struggling with barbell rows then I'd consider trying dumbbell rows instead. When you feel you can try chin-ups again I'd add these at the end of the Stronglifts workout with deadlifts. If you injured yourself doing negatives I think the resistance bands I suggested earlier in the thread may be worth a try FWIW.


I did consider replacing barbell with dumbell rows, but thought I'd give it another go... I had intended to get some resistance bands, just didn't get round to it and managed another injury! I'll get back on the bar again when it heals though (with some bands as well).

I'm going to stick with this for a while, though if it becomes to much will drop down to 3 exercises per workout (though compared to ICF 5 x 5, I don't think I've added that much).


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> I keep looking at it, but it gives me some serious o.c.d. issues  I mean, that 1 x 5 so obviously doesn't fit!


I know what you mean  . But when combined with squats in the same workout it is like that for a very good reason.



> I do like the deadlifts though, so would like to alternate them with squats just for that reason . Clearly not at 5 rep max weight yet, it actually felt as though I was stopping to soon - maybe not surprising as I'm still in the 3 x 10 range really.


This is hard as I don't know anything about rehab for the sort of injury you've had to your knee. In general though, if you're nowhere near you 5 rep max weight, there isn't really any point just getting to five reps and stopping. Unless you're still learning the exercise and increasing the weight regularly (as with Stronglifts). For the long term, in order to make your muscles grow you'll need to push them at least close to their limit in whatever rep range you are using. Stronglifts is not a rehab training programme though, so may well still not be suitable for you. Sorry, I realise I'm being no help at all here really!



> I'm going to stick with this for a while, though if it becomes to much will drop down to 3 exercises per workout (though compared to ICF 5 x 5, I don't think I've added that much).


Many people would suggest that ICF has far too much training volume, although it does work for some.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> This is hard as I don't know anything about rehab for the sort of injury you've had to your knee. In general though, if you're nowhere near you 5 rep max weight, there isn't really any point just getting to five reps and stopping. Unless you're still learning the exercise and increasing the weight regularly (as with Stronglifts). For the long term, in order to make your muscles grow you'll need to push them at least close to their limit in whatever rep range you are using. Stronglifts is not a rehab training programme though, so may well still not be suitable for you. Sorry, I realise I'm being no help at all here really!


I will be increasing the weight from tomorrow. Had to pick a starting weight, and it made more sense (to me) to carry on from where I was since I have absolutely no idea what either my 5 rep max or 1 rep max is. I suppose I'll find this out in the coming weeks - if not days!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Not the best of sessions this evening. Replaced deadlifts with squats, and then the faffing about began - peg holders on power rack too high, adjust and try again. Adjust spotter bars. Which holes do they go in again for benching - too high, too low, just right...

Squat 5 x 5 60 kg

Bench Press 5 x 5 60 kg

Standing Press 5 x 5 42.5 kg

Had intended to do some rows as well, but had lost interest after the faff...


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Realized through the week weights would be a bit awkward if I started alternating squats and dl. Had another readof the StrongLifts site... aha! it makes sense now 

Had to take an extra day after squats on Tue, then made last night into a "dummy 5 x 5" workout. Warm up sets for all exercises, then:

Deadlifts: 5x5 65kg

Bench Press: 5x5 62.5 kg

Standing Press: 5x5 45 kg

90 sec between sets, workout took approx 55 min.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

As the weight goes up you'll like need longer rest between sets BTW. 3 mins or even more. The focus is on lifting more weight, not any sort of pump etc.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Week 12 - The End (not really!)

Doesn't time fly when you're enjoying yourself 

Past weeks figs (Sun - Fri): 2176 kcal/day, 273g carbs (50.2%), 44g fat (18.2%), protein 172g (31.6%).

Starting Weight (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

Current Weight (06/06/15) 90.9 kg

I was hoping to lose 0.75 kg/week, but it's been just under 0.7 kg. Ignoring the first week's drop of 2.1 kg, the past 11 weeks average out at just over 0.5 kg, that would make sense as I've been in deficit of 15% (just over 500 cal). THat's based on 6 days/week, Sat is a day off (I don't even consider it a cheating!) where I might have steak, chips, cheese on toast and a few beers.

Next target is to dl, squat and bench up to bodyweight...

I've decided to follow the StlongLifts routine. Going to keep my bench and dl weights as they are (as they're not too far above what I've been using for 3 X 10), but will back off slightly on the squats to 50kg.

Standing press was fine at 45kg, though I think I'll fail at getting the bar up into position before I fail at the actual press!

Will start light (20kg ish) with the row and least give it a go.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> As the weight goes up you'll like need longer rest between sets BTW. 3 mins or even more. The focus is on lifting more weight, not any sort of pump etc.


Going to follow SL strictly for a while... (though I must admit I find the thought of adding 5kg/workout to the dl does intimidate me slightly).

Last night's session certainly felt different - as you say, I noticed the lack of any "pump", though I certainly felt as though I'd done some manual labour and was straing to feel a bit drained.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> Going to follow SL strictly for a while... (though I must admit I find the thought of adding 5kg/workout to the dl does intimidate me slightly).
> 
> Last night's session certainly felt different - as you say, I noticed the lack of any "pump", though I certainly felt as though I'd done some manual labour and was straing to feel a bit drained.


My comment was specifically relating to Stronglifts. 90s is a very short rest period for that programme, and trying to stick to that will hold you back. You ultimately need to rest for as long as you need to in order to do the next 5 reps. As it gets heavier 3-5 minutes would not be at all unusual. If you can do another set after 90s rest then the good news is that you are nowhere near your true 5 rep max weights yet  .

Well done on your weight loss BTW :thumbup1: .


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Part 2

Still got a fair bit of weight to shift...

Weight (06/06/15) 90.9 kg

TDEE 2234 cal (I'm assuming b.f. at 30% and allowing exercise 6 times/week, 3 x weight training).

Have changed workout to Stronglifts 5x5. Can't see the point of going right back to the suggested "beginning weights" so will continue from where I am...

Today's full workout:

Squat

12, 10 and 8 reps at 20,30,40 kg, 5x5 at 50kg (90 sec between sets).

Bench Press

12, 10, 8 reps at 25, 40 and 55 kg, 5x5 at 65 kg (90 sec between sets).

Barbell Rows

12, 10, and 8 reps at 12.5, 17.5 and 22.5 kg, 5x5 at 27.5kg (45 sec between sets).

Will increase rest as necessary as weight increases, though that's fine for now.

Gone for this style of barbell row with narrow grip:


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Tonight's session:

Stronglifts "Workout B"

Squat 52.5 kg 5x5

Standing Press 47.5kg 5x5

Deadlift 70 kg 1x5

Harder than it reads


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

That's my first StrongLifts "ABA" done. Just to keep things tidy:

Sun 07/06

Squat 50kg 5x5

Bench Press 65 kg 5x5

Barbell Rows 27.5kg 5x5

Tue 09/06

Squat 52.5kg 5x5

Standing Press 47.5kg 5x5

Deadlift 70kg 1x5

Thu 11/06

Squat 55kg 5x5

Bench Press 67.5kg 5x5

Barbell Rows 30kg 5x5

I've been struggling to get my bench/power rack set up, it felt as though the pin holes were too far apart and/or my bench was jsut the wrong height. Either I couldn't get a full range of motion, or my chest was above the pins (though could rest weight on pins at upper chest in emergency).

Found this video about benching with an arched back - ah, I get it now!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Part 2a, all change (again).

I re-did the IIFYM calculator last week which gave a 15% deficit of 2234 cal. I'm a bit over that this week averaging 2295 with one day (Wed) at 2916! Despite that, I weighed in this morning at 90.3 kg, maybe it's due to the effort of squatting and 5x5 programme...

Ave figs for past week:

Cal: 2295 Carb: 279g (48.6%) Fat 52g (20.4%) Protein 178g (31%)

I've been thinking about the 5x5 routine through the week - I'm out and about on my feet Mon - Fri, and squatting 3 times per week isn't really the most compatible programme for this (I'm sure there are people who manage it, but it's not for me). I've decided to go with the Candito Linear Programme strength/control (upper/lower), but I'm going to switch the "control" days to Mon and Tue, and the "heavy" to Thu/Fri. That way I get to have a nice lazy day on Sat after I've done the heavy squats/dl.

Had a test run of the upper today:

Bench Press 3x6 75kg (think I cold have managed another 1 or 2 reps on the last set, but not another set).

Barbell Row 3x6 40kg (narrow grip, this IS heavy for me on this, getting to like this exercise though).

Standing Press 1x6 50kg (maybe could have managed a little bit more - but not much).

Barbel Row 1x6 40 kg (wide grip).

I might replace the barbell row with 1 arm dumbell rows on the heavy days (can give it some grunt), and keep barbell for the control days. Second back exercise should be a vertical pull, but stiil keeping away from pull ups/chin ups for a while (can still feel it in the arm).


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme - W1 D1, Control Upper

Full workout, started a little too light on the bench and ended up doing an extra set, otherwise as planned.

Spoto Press

1x12 20kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 40kg

1x6 50kg

1x4 60kg

6x4 65kg

Paused Barbell Row (narrow)

1x12 10kg

1x10 17.5kg

1x8 25kg

1x6 32.5kg

6x4 40kg

Standing Barbell Press

1x12 15kg

1x10 255kg

1x8 35kg

1x10 45kg

Barbell Row (wide grip)

1x12 10kg

1x10 17.5kg

1x8 25kg

1x6 32.5kg

1x10 40kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme W1 D2, Control Lower

Paused Squats

1x12 bar only (10kg)

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 55kg

6x4 60kg

Deadlift

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 60kg

3x4 65kg

Not sure how much extra I'm going to manage for the "heavy" night!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme - W1 D3, Heavy (it's relative!) Upper

Bench Press

1x12 20kg

1x10 35kg

1x8 50kg

1x6 65kg

3x6 80kg (almost failed on last rep of 3rd set)

Barbell Row (narrow)

1x12 12.5kg

1x10 20kg

1x8 27.5kg

1x6 35kg

3x6 42.5kg

Standing Barbell Press

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 42kg

1x6 52kg

Barbell Row (wide grip)

1x6 42.5kg

I think I've got the warm-up sets about right, I would normally have gone through the warm ups again for the last exercise but had to finish. It felt fine so maybe going through them again is un-necessary. LAst rep on bench was a struggle and almost stalled, as was last rep of standing press (left side went up first then right, reckon I'd have hit failiure if I'd tried for another.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme W1 D4, Heavy Lower

This was the intended workout:

Squats

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 60kg

3x6 72.5kg

Deadlift

1x12 20kg

1x10 40kg

1x8 60kg

2x6 80kg (actual: 1+3, 1)

Maybe a bit over ambitious given my heaviest squat/dl to date is 60/75kg.

Squats went ok (though could feel it in last set). Deadlift was another matter altogerther... Lifted the 80 and went all light-headed. Must have been the heavy breathing as I psyched myself up for it. Put it down, allowed head to clear and managed another 3. Fingers were unwrapping and there was no chance of holding it further. Had rest, and managed 1 rep before it pulled me back down and crushed any further ambition. Won't be so greedy next week.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Weekly weigh in, I've been waiting for this one - sub 90 at 89.6kg, though how I've done it this week I'm not sure!

I normally have Saturdays off and eat pretty much what I want (within reason, I've found my tastes have changed over the past few months). Last week though, I thought I'd try and get a "head-start" on my sub 90 quest and only had salad and chicken (normal during the week) for tea. This backfired on the Sun as I had all kinds of cravings and couldn't stop eating (3400+ cal!). Throughout the week I've felt constantly hungry, which I haven't up until now (this past week). Managed to get it under control towards the of the week through... porridge! It's been leaving me a bit short of cal (as in over), but does at least solve the hunger issue.

Weekly figs:

Cal : 2447 Carb, 300g (49%). Fat, 58.5g (21.5%). Protein 180g (29.5%).

Having today off, then tomorrow's another day and will be aiming for 2234 cal...


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme - W2 D1, Control Upper (Mon 22nd)

Spoto Press

1x12 22.5kg

1x10 32.5kg

1x8 42.5kg

1x6 52.5kg

6x4 62.5kg

Paused Barbell Row (narrow)

1x12 11kg

1x10 18.5kg

1x8 26kg

1x6 33.5kg

6x4 41kg

Standing Barbell Press

1x12 17.5kg

1x10 27.5kg

1x8 37.5kg

1x10 47.5kg (Failed after 8)

Barbell Row (wide grip)

1x10 41kg

Candito Linear Programme W2 D2, Control Lower (Tue 23rd)

Paused Squats

1x12 bar only (10kg)

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 60kg

6x4 65kg

Deadlift

1x12 16kg

1x10 31kg

1x8 46kg

1x6 61kg

3x4 66kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme - W2 D3 (Thu 25th), Heavy (to me) Upper

Bench Press

1x12 21kg

1x10 36kg

1x8 51kg

1x6 66kg

3x6 81kg

Barbell Row (narrow)

1x12 15kg

1x10 22.5kg

1x8 30kg

1x6 37.5kg

3x6 45kg

Standing Barbell Press

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 52kg

Barbell Row (wide grip)

1x6 45kg

Not huge increments, but going in the right direction...


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Decided to give the heavy lower workout a miss last night...I turned (in the house), and felt a pain in the knee, couldn't straighten my leg wothout a shot of pain. Grrr...


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Weekly weigh in.

I guess it had to happen sooner or later - 90.3kg (+0.7). Had a bit of a hungry hector week again this week.

Weekly figs:

Cal : 2348 Carb, 288.5g (49.2%). Fat, 54g (20.7%). Protein 177g (30.1%).

Not too concerned, but need to tighten up a bit...from tomorrow, as Sat is my day off!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Might be worth weighing yourself daily rather than weekly, since day-to-day weight goes up and down a bit (which may at least partly because what you've just found compared with last week). Then see how your average weight changes each week, like you're tracking average calories per day.

Obviously this will make no difference to your actual progress, but it will give you a better picture of what's going on if you're interested.

Keep up the good work .


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Might be worth weighing yourself daily rather than weekly, since day-to-day weight goes up and down a bit (which may at least partly because what you've just found compared with last week). Then see how your average weight changes each week, like you're tracking average calories per day.
> 
> Obviously this will make no difference to your actual progress, but it will give you a better picture of what's going on if you're interested.
> 
> Keep up the good work .


What I have been doing is to weigh myself on a Sun also - inspect the damage so to speak - then again midweek. I've found that I go up by around 0.7/0.8 kg after a a Sat off, I then check myself midweek and I'm normally back down by the 0.7/0.8kg, and then I drop some by the next Sat.

So Saturdays are off - we'll (me & mrs ) normally have a steak and a bit of a treat (cheesecake or similar, and I'll have 2 or 3 beers. I suppose some might argue this yo-yoing isn't good, however, last week mrs was working, so I was going to miss my off day. Come around 9 at night the cravings started. I wanted a steak, but couldn't have one, so had cheese on toast... which didn't really hit the spot, so I started on a bag of M&M's the mrs had bought, and then she said (she's home by now) "I've got a bag of Chilli flavoured sensations if you want them." I ended up eating far mor than I normally would have on a Sat because I didn't take a day off and have what I wanted in the first place! (in my view).

Not going to make that mistake again...

Tonight's feast.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Today, I was sitting around, procrastinating and generally wasting the day away - had convinced myself it was better to take the weekend off after yesterday and give the knee a rest (even though it's made a miraculous recovery), whn I stumbled across a video of someone squatting. Thought to myself get off your ****...

Candito Linear Programme W2 D4 (Sat 27th), Heavy Lower

Squats

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 60kg

3x6 72.5kg

Deadlift

1x12 15kg

1x10 30kg

1x8 45kg

1x6 60kg

2x6 72.5 kg

Kept squats the same as last week, just wanted a "success" after last week. Can't complain as it's still a PB for deadlift!

And now it's time for beer and pizza... nomnomnom


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Taranu said:


> View attachment 174117


Wish I hadn't seen that - I'm cutting too and my dinner will be rather less satisfying :-(


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme Week 3

W3 D1, Control Upper (Mon 29th)

Spoto Press: 6x4 65kg

Paused Barbell Row (narrow): 6x4 42.5kg

Standing Barbell Press: 1x10 47.5kg (Failed on 10th rep).

Barbell Row (wide grip) 1x10 42.5kg

W3 D2, Control Lower (Tue 30th June)

Paused Squats: 6x4 65kg

Deadlift: 3x4 66kg

W3 D3 (Thu 2nd JUly), Heavy (to me) Upper

Bench Press: 3x6 82.5kg (Actual: 4, 5, 3).

Barbell Row (narrow): 3x6 47.5kg

Standing Barbell Press: 1x6 53.5kg

Barbell Row (wide grip): 1x6 47.5kg

It's beginning to look like I'm coming to end of the road regarding "beginner gains"!

W3 D4 (Fri 3rd), Heavy Lower

Squats: 3x6 75kg

Deadlift: 2x6 75 kg

Feel like I can keep adding weight on both squats and DL, except for the fact that my fingers are literally uncurling on the last 1/2 reps of the last set - only just managed itlast night and my hands were like hooks!

*Edit*

Weekly weigh in for 4th July: 89.8kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme Week 4

W4 D1, Control Upper (Mon 6th)

Spoto Press: 6x4 67.5kg

Paused Barbell Row (narrow): 6x4 43.5kg

Standing Barbell Press: 1x10 47.5kg - Success after 3 weeks!

Barbell Row (wide grip) 1x10 43.5kg

W4 D2, Control Lower (Tue 7th June)

Paused Squats: 6x4 68.5kg

Deadlift: 3x4 68.5kg

W4 D3 (Thu 9th), Heavy (to me) Upper

Bench Press: 3x6 82.5kg - Successfully this week 

Barbell Row (narrow): 3x6 48.5kg

Standing Barbell Press: 1x6 55kg (Actual: 1x4.)

Barbell Row (wide grip): 1x6 48.5kg

W4 D4 (Fri 10th), Heavy Lower

Squats: 3x6 77.55kg

Deadlift: 2x6 75 kg

Kept DL the same as last week, though felt better this time round.

Weekly weigh in: 11/07/15 88.7 kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Candito Linear Programme Week 5

W4 D1, Control Upper (Mon 13th)

Spoto Press: 6x4 70 kg (getting a bit much, must remember this is supposed to the "control" day.)

Paused Barbell Row (narrow): 6x4 45kg

Standing Barbell Press: 1x10 47.5kg (no change)

Barbell Row (wide grip) 1x10 45kg

W4 D2, Control Lower (Tue 14th June)

Paused Squats: 6x4 70 kg

Deadlift: 3x4 70 kg

W4 D3 (Thu 16th), Heavy (to me) Upper

Bench Press: 3x6 83.5kg (Actual: 6, 5, 2)

Barbell Row (narrow): 3x6 50 kg

Standing Barbell Press: 1x6 55kg (Actual: 1x3.)

Barbell Row (wide grip): 1x6 50 kg

W4 D4 (Fri 17th), Heavy Lower

Missed Fri workout, life getting in the way...

Weekly weigh in: 18/07/15 88.6 kg

Going to back off this week, lower the weight, and maybe repeat the the control workouts - have a few niggling aches that I could do with getting rid of!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

Took the week off, no workouts.

Weekly weigh-in 25/07/17, 88.1 kg.


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

And a week off turned into two...

Saw physio last week who diagnosed neck as the issue giving problems in shoulder & arm. Had a "good" (as in painful) massage and things much better.

Weekly weigh in 01/08/15, 88.5 kg.

Started back on the weights last night, but reduced weight:

Spoto Press: 6x4 60 kg

Paused Barbell Row (Narrow): 6x4 40kg

Standing Press: 1x10 40 kg

Barbell Row (Wide): 1x10 40 kg


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

It drags on... didn't do another workout as neck/shoulder stiffened up. Managed to train consistently since march until now, what a pain...

On the up-side:

Weekly weigh in (08/08/15): 87.4 kg

Going to try doing just legs this week, but move the bar to the front so that it's not on my neck!


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## Taranu (Mar 10, 2015)

The past weeks have been pretty crap from an exercise point of view - been seeing physio and resting up. Despite my best intentions to keep going with lbw, I just didn't have the motivation - I seem to be thinking in 12 week blocks and realized I wasn't going to get any further. Ego has been well and truly slapped down, I was hoping to be pushing my bodyweight by the end of Aug (wasn't far off!), oh well.

Not all bad news:

Start (15/03/15) 99.1 kg

12 weeks (07/06/15)

24 weeks (30/08/15) 87.2 kg

Did a light workout on 31/08/15:

Spoto Bench Press 3x6 50 kg

Pause Barbell Row (narrow) 3x6 40kg

Standing Press 1x10 30kg

Barbell Row (wide) 40 kg

No ill effects, so did same workout twice this past week (07/09/15 & 11/09/15), will build slowly on this from now on.

Today's weigh-in (12/09/15) 86.7 kg


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