# Using Steroids and losing body fat



## Dansaxon (Jul 28, 2010)

Is it possible to use steroids to help shed body fat.

Quick Bio...... 25 male 14 stone....Been hitting the gym for 2 years now but want to loose that last little bit that will drop me to around 10%.

If any steroid can could anyone give suggestions on the best to use.

Thanks in advance


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## Boshboshbosh (Nov 23, 2009)

keen to see answers on this as iv heard mixed reviews...

believe Anavar is touted as a fat burning steroid?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Yep, but why don't you just eat less and do more cardio, lots cheaper and safer.

Welcome to the board.

Failing that high dose var and good diet works wonders.


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## hermie07 (Sep 16, 2008)

mars what dose is a good one for var im using pc 50 mg tabs


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## Kyusho (Aug 24, 2007)

Agreed. Most people should easily be able to achieve 10% bodyfat with good diet and cardio. In my experience you only need a little help when going much lower than this, to help maintain muscle and strength. Get down to 10% naturally and re-evaluate IMO.



mars1960 said:


> Yep, but why don't you just eat less and do more cardio, lots cheaper and safer.
> 
> Welcome to the board.
> 
> Failing that high dose var and good diet works wonders.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Var would help for sure, but only if you're in a constant calorie deficit. My first voyage in to var I was dedicated to an OCD level and saw great results, rebound was major however so word of caution, dramatic fat loss but temporary, worth low Labido? That's for you to decide.

The second course I was slack on diet and actually put on fat (only a little mass in my traps and back mainly).

Steroids will help you retain your mass in a severe calorie deficit. From experience I would look in to fat burners if fat loss is your goal.


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## Dansaxon (Jul 28, 2010)

Do fat Burners work ? Heard mixed reviews...

Could you suggest any.


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## Kyusho (Aug 24, 2007)

That would be diet dependent mate. The fat loss would only be temporary if you started eating in a calorie surplus. Here is an interesting study analysing the use of Var as a fat reducing steroid. Note it has been done on obese and older men, but the fat loss seems to be near permanent.

*Anavar and Fat Loss*

Now here´s some interesting stuff for anyone interested primarily in the fat loss properties of this stuff: Anavar may be what we´d call a "fat-burning steroid". Abdominal and visceral fat were both reduced in one study when subjects in the low/normal natural testosterone range used anavar (4). In another study, appendicular, total, and trunk fat were all reduced with a relatively small dose of 20mgs/day (8), and no exercise. In addition, weight gained with ´var may be nearly permanent too. It might not be much, but you´ll stand a good chance of keeping most of it. In one study, subjects maintained their weight (re)gains from anavar for at least 6 months after cessation (2)! Concomitantly, in another study, *Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat were also sustained* (8)! If you´re regaining weight, Anavar will give you nearly permanent gains, and if you are trying to lose fat (and you keep your diet in check), the fat lost with Anavar is basically looks to be nearly permanent. Check this chart out:

Absolute change in total fat mass (A) and trunk fat ( B) by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry from baseline to study week 12 (solid bars) and from baseline to study week 24 (open bars) in the placebo (n = 12) and the oxandrolone (n = 20) study groups. Values are means ± SE. *Significant decrease from baseline, P < 0.001. Significant difference between study groups for change in fat mass from 0 to 12 wk, P < 0.001. (15)(8)

Another good read:

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.



UKWolverine said:


> dramatic fat loss but temporary


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## Kyusho (Aug 24, 2007)

That would be diet dependant mate. The fat loss would only be temporary if you started eating in a calorie surplus. Here is an interesting study analysing the use of Var as a fat reducing steroid. Note it has been done on obese and older men, but the fat loss seems to be near permanent.

*Anavar and Fat Loss*

Now here´s some interesting stuff for anyone interested primarily in the fat loss properties of this stuff: Anavar may be what we´d call a "fat-burning steroid". Abdominal and visceral fat were both reduced in one study when subjects in the low/normal natural testosterone range used anavar (4). In another study, appendicular, total, and trunk fat were all reduced with a relatively small dose of 20mgs/day (8), and no exercise. In addition, weight gained with ´var may be nearly permanent too. It might not be much, but you´ll stand a good chance of keeping most of it. In one study, subjects maintained their weight (re)gains from anavar for at least 6 months after cessation (2)! Concomitantly, in another study, *Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat were also sustained* (8)! If you´re regaining weight, Anavar will give you nearly permanent gains, and if you are trying to lose fat (and you keep your diet in check), the fat lost with Anavar is basically looks to be nearly permanent. Check this chart out:

Absolute change in total fat mass (A) and trunk fat ( B) by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry from baseline to study week 12 (solid bars) and from baseline to study week 24 (open bars) in the placebo (n = 12) and the oxandrolone (n = 20) study groups. Values are means ± SE. *Significant decrease from baseline, P < 0.001. Significant difference between study groups for change in fat mass from 0 to 12 wk, P < 0.001. (15)(8)

Another good read:

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24

Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.

Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

*CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.*



UKWolverine said:


> dramatic fat loss but temporary


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Dansaxon said:


> Do fat Burners work ? Heard mixed reviews...
> 
> Could you suggest any.


What they will do if anything is help you with appetite suppression. That's something to look for IMO.

It all boils down to biology my friend.

1. If you eat less than you need to support your current weight, you will lose weight. Simple as that.

2. If you train your muscles, your body will retain the muscle that is needed to lift the force you put the muscles under.

Don't listen to the hype of high rep, low weight for fat burning. Just reduce the number of sets (Volume) and keep the intensity high (weight on the bar).

If you can manage this consistently over time you will get down to 10% no problem. :thumbup1:


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## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Trenbolone-only would do the trick aswell.

But there's a side-effect, pain in the joints cause of lack of estrogen.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Snuff-Sann said:


> Trenbolone-only would do the trick aswell.
> 
> But there's a side-effect, pain in the joints cause of lack of estrogen.


Pain in the joints - from tren??

You not thinking of winny??


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## stevo99 (Nov 28, 2008)

Snuff-Sann said:


> Trenbolone-only would do the trick aswell.
> 
> But there's a side-effect, pain in the joints cause of lack of estrogen.


plus shutting your balls right down, accellerated baldness and crying like a bitch at the end of a tren only cycle??


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## Terrawatt (May 22, 2010)

Does anyone have an example pic they could post up, showing 10% BF ?


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## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

I would have to say it does! It works best as a fat burner when taken by itself. The reason so few people can comment on it from a fat burnering stand point is because almost no one will ever see the effect. If you take any where between 75mg-150mg a day by itself and train like you normally would you will lose fat with out doing any cardio at all. In fact the first two weeks you are doing it by itself you will be checking out the mirror trying to decide if it is doing anything at all you will notice a slight increase in definition but you will not be sure if it is real or just in your head. Then come week 4 you start to notice that your muscle are looking harder then you have ever seen them look before. Then come week six you loving the increased definition you are looking great lean, hard as a rock and very vascular. Then from week 6 on you really start to gain muscle mass fast and you keep getting leaner and leaner........You strength buy now is sky high the first time I did a tren only cycle by week 10 I was doing 10X10 with my previous 1RM on bench press. Past week 8 you start to get sore joints from the lack of estrogen in your body and your apatite will be way down you will have to make yourself drink some protein shakes or eat etc......You will not feel bad just will have no apatite. By week 10 your joints will hurt regularly but you will want to see just how long you can keep this going because you have never lost fat like this before and you will be looking harder then you have ever looked in your life! I think 12 weeks is about as long as you can stay on a tren only cycle because your joints start hurting too much and the night sweats become so annoying your wife or girl friend will want a separate blanket. You will only gain about 1/2 to 2/3 what you would gain if you stacked tren with test but if you stack it with test you almost completely lose all the fat burning properties of it!

Too many people are scared to run it alone and this is why almost none of them have experienced the massive fat burning properties of it!!! If you run it with anything that can convert to estrogen you lose the fat burning effect.

I have come up with one way that I think will get rid of the nasty sides of joint pain when run alone. I think that it will work too. The problem with stacking it with test is that people always want to do 500-1000mg a week of test and then 300-500mg a week of tren not only is that ass backwards but it is why they do not see the fat burning effects. So why do our joints start hurting like mad as the tren only cycle goes on??? I am preety sure it is the complete lack of estrogen since tren shuts down test production and that is the same place we get our estrogen from by converting test to estrogen. So all we need to do is to put a litle bit of test into the systme like 3-7mg a day. 7-8mg a days is about the most test a man body will routinely produce daily when not takeing steroids. So if we put this same amount of test backinto the body then we should be able to run tren almost by itself with out the joint pain and we should also be able to gain even more muscle mass. I think daily works best with tren I have tried EOD and ED and ED seems to work best. Bear in mind I am talking about being able to run tren and use as little test as possable to keep the fat burning furnace going!

So if you made a 50CC bottle of Tren at 75mg/ml and you added 1 cc of Test Cypionate at 200mg/ml you would get roughly 75mg of tren and 4mg of test each 1 cc you used. If you wanted to get 8mg of test then you would put 2cc's into the bottle. Mind you the math above is a little off but it is not going to matter that much you see my point. In theory anything that converts to Test or Estrogen could be used in the Tren you could add DHEA if you wanted to and still get the estrogen you needed to keep your joints happy. I am trying something like this right now but it is so experimental and I am only two weeks into it.

I would almost wager that no one on this sight besides me has ever done Tren with out Test in the mix and I doubt anyone has done Tren and Deca together with out test. So this is why I say few people have any idea what Tren by itself can do or will do because they have never tried it by itself for any length of time.

Each steroid has a completely different effect on gene transcription and they have effects that reach far deeper into the body then most will ever realize. Even your caloric intake effects how anabolic affect gene transcription. For instance anabolic steroids have a 10 fold increase in gene transcription when in a starvation mode. That means that the chemical and physical effects of the steroid are 10 fold greater under conditions of starvation. All of the dormant genes come alive and they get affected just like the genes that are normally active in us. Most people do not know this because they think of genes like a finger print like they are static but your physical conditioning changes the genes that are turned on or turned off. The physical fitness of the father actually changes the genes that he passes on to his off spring!

We are all so worried about building muscle mass that we seldom think much beyond that. Normally when you starve your body goes into a catabolic state and it down regulates almost everything. This is not the case though if you starve yourself and take anabolic.Few of us would ever consider taking anabolic and then starving ourself but the research has been already. I watched a show on it well it was actually on Gene transcription and famine v.s feast setting and the effect on offspring. They covered all kinds of things from what affects famine had on young men and young women and what disease the offspring became more inclined to based on the food intake of their parents between the ages of 7 and 13 I think it was. They also covered hormones in thier as well it was a fascinating show.

What we do today has a profound impact on what we pass on to others down the road and it also has a profound impact on what diseases we might make ourself more prone to down the road! All of us are truly playing with some anabolic compounds that have lasting effects not always seen for quite some time down the road and it can be good or bad depending on what get's switched on and what get's switched off. I think that this is why we see such inconsistent disease rates in longterm steroid user's. First dose,duration,number of cycles,caloric intake, macro and micro food nutrients and individual response to the drugs all play a role. This is why some people end up with heart diseases down the road and sometimes not that far down the road either where other people have the reverse happen they become free of heart disease!

We are all just seeing the surface of a big ice berg and we forget just how much we are nto seeing. This is not meant as a fear tactic either because no one can really say with out constant testing if you are doing yourself any harm or if you are doing yourself a world of good. Too much is not known about how the gene transcription works either when talking about anabolic. Plus their has never been that much deep in depth research into the various effects of each anabolic some are not even available for human use in legitimate pharmaceutical grade products meant for humans! SO just keep that in mind that all of use are walking down a path that has an uncertain future. For me the short term pay offs are good and if I am able to correct my metabolism then the long term pay off will be good as well. I know for a fact that my longterm outlook with out TRT with estrogen dominance would not be a good one!

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-forum/trenbolone-question-134277464.html


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## Kyusho (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm about 10% in my avatar pic. Also have a look here:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/getting-started/14975-body-fat-terminology-pictures.html



Terrawatt said:


> Does anyone have an example pic they could post up, showing 10% BF ?


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Kyusho said:


> I'm about 10% in my avatar pic. Also have a look here:
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/getting-started/14975-body-fat-terminology-pictures.html


You look leaner bro. Perhaps it's the lighting.


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## Kyusho (Aug 24, 2007)

Cheers bud, appreciate the comment. I think I just hold fat well tbh, my abs don't seem to dissapear even at higher bodyfat levels. If you look at my pic there is still fat covering the lower two abs; i'm cutting at the moment and think when I get down to a lower percentage i Will have the 8 pack look.. will post some pics up when done bud (anavar only cycle, read your thread btw before I started; very good).



UKWolverine said:


> You look leaner bro. Perhaps it's the lighting.


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## ian-m (May 9, 2010)

whats the point in throwing 75-150mg ed down your neck when super halo (which im on now) at 25mg ed (just 1 capsule) can shed pounds off you......i lost half a stone last week of belly fat! and thats the only place i have fat anyway but its the hardest place to remove btw i have not done any cardio at all yet too this week going to do a few miles ed on the treadmill to see the difference


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

You can cut on almost any steroid with the right diet, but obvious choices would be test prop, anavar or winy for me.

Tren also good but wouldn't use alone as it can really shut you down hard.

Which fat burners have you already tried if any?


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## steven rooney (May 25, 2010)

use primo me mate has lost fat and gained muscle


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