# Do you train your abs and lower back directly?



## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

Hi,

Do you guys train your abs and lower back directly for the purpose of bodybuiding? If so why? If not why not?

I train abs directly twice a week, in the form of weighted leg raises 3 sets of 10 to failure ect. All heavy exercises. I also train lower back directly in the form of hypers ect.

But after reading around I'm not sure its necessary as most guy's with good mid sections don't train them at all as they get trained hard from heavy squats, deadlifts, bent over rows ect.

Opinions?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

you can never have a too strong core i train core directly as well as heavy compounds .


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## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

uhan said:


> you can never have a too strong core i train core directly as well as heavy compounds .


For strength purposes I understand but from a bodybuilding perspective heavy squating ect should build it up nicely. I deadlift heavy but when doing machine hyper extensions I have to add weight onto the stack and still rep it for 12. Which probably ruins technique because of the position the apparatus puts you in. That's why I've come to question whether things like that are needed other than to tone and keep the mid section rigid and tight. But as said when we are doing heavy compounds the whole area probably gets a better workout anyway?

Abs is pretty much the same thing imo, the direct exercises keep them tight and toned. Adding weight is a possibility but its getting silly with me now. I'm repping 3 sets of 10 with a 10kg dumbell doing leg raises. I think I could possibly be over building certain area's.

Cheers for reply, like to get a good debate going as it can only help each of us learn


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## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

uhan said:


> you can never have a too strong core i train core directly as well as heavy compounds .


For strength purposes I understand but from a bodybuilding perspective heavy squating ect should build it up nicely. I deadlift heavy but when doing machine hyper extensions I have to add weight onto the stack and still rep it for 12. Which probably ruins technique because of the position the apparatus puts you in. That's why I've come to question whether things like that are needed other than to tone and keep the mid section rigid and tight. But as said when we are doing heavy compounds the whole area probably gets a better workout anyway?

Abs is pretty much the same thing imo, the direct exercises keep them tight and toned. Adding weight is a possibility but its getting silly with me now. I'm repping 3 sets of 10 with a 10kg dumbell doing leg raises. I think I could possibly be over building certain area's.

Cheers for reply, like to get a good debate going as it can only help each of us learn


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

core and abs are completely different so a bodybuilder just needs the area (abs) to look good however compounds only do the big power muscles leaving out some of the smaller harder to hit muscles so imo a good all round combo is needed for example this is what i do heavy compounds 3x week then tuesday i do cardio/abs/lower back , thursday i do cardio/core/fitness routine so all angles get hit having a strong core adds weight to your other lifts too .


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I feel that my lower back get enough direct work from deadlift variations and powercleans, so other than doing some lowerback crunches as part of warm up I do nothing extra specifically for them.

Abs I train twice a week for just one exercise of 3 sets of 8-15. This is normally a twisting or side bending exercise to target the obliques as well as the rectus abs, as I feel both better core strength and a nicer look to my midsection comes from working them.


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## massiccio (Nov 17, 2010)

I switch from no direct training , for 2 months or more , to almost daily direct sessions, usually when dieting down. Then I gauge the results and adjust accordingly


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## myles (Sep 27, 2006)

I never realised how good a well executed set of squats hits the core until i started legs again after a long time off legs.


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## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

Interesting responses.

I admit I always trained each of them directly aswel but after reading around old threads.on various sites some of the guys that compete don't train them directly at all.

Doing heavy squats with perfect form does seem to nail the whole core for me, also read abit about training abs in general. That targeting obliques directly isn't necessarily needed as it all get nailed in proportion when you hit the rectus. Lots of different opinions ofcourse but then taking into account abs need time to heal like anyother muscle for development, training squats, deads, and seperate cores exercises on different days may acctualy inhibit you from growing and developing?


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## nelly1972 (Jun 15, 2010)

I dont do them religiously, but when i do them its most likely hanging leg raises, ab wheel, handstands, and l-sits i do on my gymnastic rings, should really add some plank variations in but find them boring ..Abs/core is like ur grip you can train them everyday (and if you dont believe me, read Ross enamaits book never gymless)..


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## Cowley (Aug 24, 2010)

Lol.. training abs everybody has there own opinions and there all right to be honest, it depends on yourself, take Greg Plitt for example (guy with insane abs).. trains his abs every single day. Then some other random guy with amazing abs train's them 4 times a week, and some people as little as once a week, Your abs can stand being hit more often than other muscles, So trial with it and see what works best for you, but at the end of the day, your diet should be the main concern when it comes to abs!


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## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

Yeah diet and genetics are 80% of abs and core.

I always train for 10 reps at the highest possible weight though. I rarely see guys using the weight I do. Most guys I watch training abs only really do non weighted crunch's and russian twists.

Suppose the question is do you keep pushing more weight? Training chest, lats, traps, shoulders, legs I'm always looking to up the weight for growth. Is this the case with core muscles? Surely overdeveloped they'll begin to look bad. Or do the pro's do exactly this?


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## nelly1972 (Jun 15, 2010)

Have a look at gymnasticbodies.com you wont see them doing endless crunches, just learning to control their body weight..Next time you do pull ups, do l-sit pull ups see how much harder they are when you engage your core, also try renegade rows they are also tough on your core..


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

Since training them directly im noticing more detail coming through. Yes, heavy compound movements causes the muscles to grow through hypertrophy, but IMO if you dont directly train the muscle then you wont get definition.

Its like when im not dieting, my legs go to sh1t and get all smooth. But within a month of dieting and doing incline treadmill walking everyday, my legs are the first thing to have decent detail....similar thing with lower back and abs IMO.


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## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

nelly1972 said:


> Have a look at gymnasticbodies.com you wont see them doing endless crunches, just learning to control their body weight..Next time you do pull ups, do l-sit pull ups see how much harder they are when you engage your core, also try renegade rows they are also tough on your core..


So your agree'ing with what I've said then?


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

i do serratus crunch and hanging leg raises and thats about it. couple of sets of each once a week


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## Fullsquat (Apr 16, 2011)

hsmann87 said:


> Since training them directly im noticing more detail coming through. Yes, heavy compound movements causes the muscles to grow through hypertrophy, but IMO if you dont directly train the muscle then you wont get definition.
> 
> Its like when im not dieting, my legs go to sh1t and get all smooth. But within a month of dieting and doing incline treadmill walking everyday, my legs are the first thing to have decent detail....similar thing with lower back and abs IMO.


Agreed yes but I'd say its only necessary to train them directly in this way leading upto a comp to keep the muscles hard and defined. Or throughout the summer months ofcourse 

I suppose the question should of been do you train them directly for hypertrophy by increasing the weight ect, not just defining exercises like crunches, twists ect.

Think I'll keep doing them for definition but leave the growth for the compound movements


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