# I wanna get on cycle!!



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

But everyday I change my mind, one day I'm against it because of the potential sides, the next day I think to myself I should get some dbol just to see how it goes, and the next day I think *fu*k it*, 12 week 500mg test with a kickstart, why the fu*k not, everyone else is?!

Anybody else get this from time to time?? It's so tempting, especially when you see 18 year olds on cycle with a years worth of training, bigger than you :lol:


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> But everyday I change my mind, one day I'm against it because of the potential sides, the next day I think to myself I should get some dbol just to see how it goes, and the next day I think *fu*k it*, 12 week 500mg test with a kickstart, why the fu*k not, everyone else is?!
> 
> Anybody else get this from time to time?? *It's so tempting, especially when you see 18 year olds on cycle with a years worth of training, bigger than you* :lol:


Their bodys will be ****ed when they are older with starting so young. You think the do pct? Nope!!! Don't rush it mate make sure your body is ready for the gains to avoid injury.


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## monster wanna b (Nov 1, 2012)

just go for it mate, dont listen to people's comments about the sides. no two people are the same. just go for it. experience it. love it. enjoy it, never go back from it.


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Yep...goes on in my head all time my last cycle was twenty years ago but I am thinking of a wee run of anavar nothing brutal just a wee kickstart as I'm only back at training a few months took me this long to sort my diet and training just don't know anyone that s a decent supplier anymore as my old supplier is dead inconsiderate barstewart


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Their bodys will be ****ed when they are older with starting so young. You think the do pct? Nope!!! Don't rush it mate make sure your body is ready for the gains to avoid injury.


Well I'm 21 (a week today) so not even that much older, although seem to have more knowledge about steriods than they do. I've got semi-decent strength, 80kg atm and testing my 1rms next week, hoping for Bench: 85kg, Squat: 130kg, Dead: 160kg, diet has been spot on for 8 months and I haven't missed a training session in longer than that.

Tbh, I'm probably just using this thread to convince myself I should go for it :lol:

ps. your wifes bum is wonderful


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> Well I'm 21 (a week today) so not even that much older, although seem to have more knowledge about steriods than they do. I've got semi-decent strength, 80kg atm and testing my 1rms next week, hoping for Bench: 85kg, Squat: 130kg, Dead: 160kg, diet has been spot on for 8 months and I haven't missed a training session in longer than that.
> 
> Tbh, I'm probably just using this thread to convince myself I should go for it :lol:
> 
> ps. your wifes bum is wonderful


It sure is 

You have answered it really, you have the knowledge to be able to notice/prevent the sides etc and are 21 so not that young. If you have been training a while then your joints etc will be ready for the gains.

I am 25 but only started properly training about 2 months ago(have been training for 7 years on/off) and I am waiting till Jan to start my 1st cycle. Got to lose some BF 1st.

You seem ready and you really want to do it so go for it mate.

Good luck and hope you get some good gains.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> It sure is
> 
> You have answered it really, you have the knowledge to be able to notice/prevent the sides etc and are 21 so not that young. If you have been training a while then your joints etc will be ready for the gains.
> 
> ...


Cheers buddy, that was the kind of response I was hoping for lol :devil2:


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

tbh mate from what I have seen from you, you are in great nick. maybe if your concerned about sides like growth stunt try var for 8 weeks.

i think ur sensible enough to do a cycle and good on u for not jumping in


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

It's funny, before I joined this site I told myself I would never touch gear :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> Cheers buddy, that was the kind of response I was hoping for lol :devil2:


No worries mate. Will keep an eye out for your updates!!

And don't worry I will be sure to post in your threads so you can perv on my wifes ar$e haha


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> It's funny, before I joined this site I told myself I would never touch gear :lol: :lol: :lol:


So did I lol then I saw what they actually achieve and I have mine planned for Jan lmao


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> tbh mate from what I have seen from you, you are in great nick. maybe if your concerned about sides like growth stunt try var for 8 weeks.
> 
> i think ur sensible enough to do a cycle and good on u for not jumping in


I'm 6'1, don't wanna go any higher tbh! lol. It was more the risk of ED and gyno, I know some people don't get any sides, and even if it's 1 in a 1000 chance, I could still be that one!


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> I'm 6'1, don't wanna go any higher tbh! lol. It was more the risk of ED and gyno, I know some people don't get any sides, and even if it's 1 in a 1000 chance, I could still be that one!


well with good estrogen management neither of those will be a problem. just use some adex on cycle and ur g2g


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

chilisi said:


> Don't do something because "everyone else is"


A very good point! But I'm not doing it because others are, as sad as it is, I love going to the gym, prepping meals and reading the sceince behind bodybuilding, I know at some point I will take steroids, I'm just thinking to myself, what's the point in waiting..


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

chilisi said:


> It's not sad, it's what most members must do in here.
> 
> Just make sure your making the right decision. AAS can be run with no sides or ill health, if used properly. Make recovery a top priority, have enough time off when needed, get bloods done if you can and eat and train lots to get the best out of them.


I can't even remember the last time I went to the docs for anything, is it possible to just book an appointment with my GP to ask for bloods to be done? Or would I need to have symptons of something for them to do it?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

chilisi said:


> Some use the low testosterone card, tiredness, low libido, depression to get tests. Or done are lucky enough to have a doc that will do them, knowing your on aas. You can go private and get them online or at a clinic if your near one though.


If I could only get tested once, would it be best to do it before or after cycle?


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

I've just finished my first cycle at the age of 21 and I was on Test E @ 500mg for 12 weeks and then added tren ace @ 400mg for last 6 weeks, if you get some Pharma Arimidex you won't have anything to worry about to be honest, if you do your research you'll be fine...

Its young lads at the gym who don't have a clue about steroids/pct that give cycling such a bad name, I know people don't say do it till you're 25 ect... but if you really want to do it then test it out? Atleast you've tried and experienced it, do a short test cycle around 12 - 14 weeks and see how it goes? If you can't make your mind up now then don't do it.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> I've just finished my first cycle at the age of 21 and I was on Test E @ 500mg for 12 weeks and then added tren ace @ 400mg for last 6 weeks, if you get some Pharma Arimidex you won't have anything to worry about to be honest, if you do your research you'll be fine...
> 
> Its young lads at the gym who don't have a clue about steroids/pct that give cycling such a bad name, I know people don't say do it till you're 25 ect... but if you really want to do it then test it out? Atleast you've tried and experienced it, do a short test cycle around 12 - 14 weeks and see how it goes? If you can't make your mind up now then don't do it.


I'd definitely keep it simple,

Week 1-12 - Test E 500mg/week.

Week 1-4 - dbol 30mg/d

Week 1-12 - Arimidex 0.5g EOD

Week 2-12 - HCG 1000iu/week

Week 14-18 - Clomid 100/50/50/25

Week 14-18 - Nolva 20/20/20/20


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

As mentioned few times above you've clearly got your head screwed on and are doing your research and know the pct and recovery is important.

I know your 21 and 80kg so I'd hardly expect a 300kg deadlift,

But I can't help think that if they are your hopeful 1RM's that maybe you've a bit of natural progression left in you before jumping on?

Know that will be seen as a snide remark but honestly it's not meant to be. They're nice numbers for a natty at 80kg, but you could definitely improve them with diet and training changes?

Hypocrite that I am I started using before I got near my natural potential so I shouldn't preach but I I'm honest I do regret not pushing further and having little patience!

Flip side of the coin is like you I researched a hell of a lot beforehand and always have enough time off and regular checkups etc.

Your body so you'll decide but you mentioned in your post you contemplated a dbol only, scratch that anyway ha ha!

If you cross over to the dark side get the test in ya!

Best of luck pal


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> I'd definitely keep it simple,
> 
> Week 1-12 - Test E 500mg/week.
> 
> ...


Looks good mate, I wish I'd of used dbol on my cycle!


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

golfgttdi said:


> As mentioned few times above you've clearly got your head screwed on and are doing your research and know the pct and recovery is important.
> 
> I know your 21 and 80kg so I'd hardly expect a 300kg deadlift,
> 
> ...


I've only been training for 18 months so there's definitely some natty potential left. I'll lose some strength with the summer cut, so by the end of the next bulk (this time next year) I'll probably have only added 10-15kg to the main 3, whereas I could easily smash that within 12 weeks and still have time to add more, I know I'll be getting on at some point in the next year or so so why wait, like you say, it's a decision I have to make myself, and of course I'll keep a journal of it all 

My current journal if anyone's interested- shameless advertising, I know lol :rolleye:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/214438-rd-journal-self.html


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

chilisi said:


> Before and after in an ideal world. Out of those 2 though, after would be best, to show if your'e recovering or not.


That's what I thought but just wanted to make sure. Thinking about the low libido excuse after cycle and see if tests can be done, didn't want to go before incase he wants to do bloods again while I'm on cycle and notices slightly higher test levels lol


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

i started at 19 and it stunted my growth...i'm not as tall as the rest of my brothers who kept growing until they were 25. other then that i have no regrets, my advice would be to check you blood pressure and get bloods done and plan your cycles accordingly.


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## Jason88 (Mar 24, 2013)

admittley i often feel the same and find hard to stay natty, personally ive told myself if i can be serious enough for a full year an do a natty contest then i might try a cycle, but last few years ive trained on and off, so first i need to prove to myself im ready


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Don't see the point at 21 personally. Haven't you got better things to spend your money on?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

L11 said:


> Don't see the point at 21 personally. Haven't you got better things to spend your money on?


Not bragging, but I have a decent job and still live at home so I have plenty of disposable income at the moment


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> Not bragging, but I have a decent job and still live at home so I have plenty of disposable income at the moment


So save it and use it to buy a house :/


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

L11 said:


> So save it and use it to buy a house :/


My car rapes most of my income every month, but when I wanna move out, I'll sell it and have most of a deposit to a house, until then I wanna enjoy myself


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Do whatever the fvck you wanna do!


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## KitchenGuy (Sep 25, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> A very good point! But I'm not doing it because others are, as sad as it is, I love going to the gym, prepping meals and reading the sceince behind bodybuilding, I know at some point I will take steroids, I'm just thinking to myself, what's the point in waiting..


Exactly the same as you mate, similar lifts and weight etc. Then i see some guy coming in the gym a couple of weeks ago that has only been training 6 months in a vest looking bigger and more ripped !

So i've ordered some stanavar and its being dropped off tonight.

Dont think i'll regret it


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

@L11 do you think you'll ever go on?


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> @L11 do you think you'll ever go on?


NEVER.

Nothing against people that do but I literally have no reason to, if I can maintain how I look now for another 10 years then I'll be very happy.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Why is this being discussed in the natty section?


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Mate you clearly have your mind well made up, you have a cycle planned and all so I don't know why you are here seeking justification off a bunch of people you don't know. Just do what you want and fcuk off out of our natty section :thumb:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

andyhuggins said:


> Why is this being discussed in the natty section?


Because I'm natty at the moment and wanted to see if others had the urge to do a cycle


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

andyhuggins said:


> Why is this being discussed in the natty section?


Although if it really effected you that much that you needed to comment, please accept my sincerest apologies


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Likewise mate if you really needed to post on a natty board about aas feel free.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Their bodys will be ****ed when they are older with starting so young. You think the do pct? Nope!!! Don't rush it mate make sure your body is ready for the gains to avoid injury.


If they do it right they will be 100% fine. I jumped on gear pretty much straight away after starting training, made much quicker gains than if I were unassisted and kept them all so far even during my current PCT after 6 months on.

Should have sorted diet out sooner I'd be where I want to be now if I had


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

L11 said:


> NEVER.
> 
> Nothing against people that do but I literally have no reason to, if I can maintain how I look now for another 10 years then I'll be very happy.


It's alright for you with your damn black genetics :lol:


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

I thought about it for quite a while and decided to go with test p at 19 and its helped so much. I wouldn't hesitate if I was you...


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm dying too,I just don't want to lose my hair! **** Sake!


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Leeds89 said:


> If they do it right they will be 100% fine. I jumped on gear pretty much straight away after starting training, made much quicker gains than if I were unassisted and kept them all so far even during my current PCT after 6 months on.
> 
> Should have sorted diet out sooner I'd be where I want to be now if I had


Ofcourse, aslong as they have the knowledge they should be fine. Knowledge is power after all. But if they don't at 18 they could cause some serious damage. They are still growing after all but like you said aslong as the do it right they should be fine.

How old was you when you started??


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## jonesboy (Apr 7, 2013)

I use to train with a fella that did steds and we started training at around the same time but he always said he wasn't on them. I knew he was by the gains he was getting and I got a bit ****ed off with his lies so I stopped training with him. Fast forward 3 years later and he was big and he actually admitted to taking them but didn't want to tell me as I was dead against them. He tried getting me on them then which I did one year later as people were asking me if I was anyway. My thoughts were that if people thought I was on them then I might as well be anyway and my gains had slowed down and I had gone as far as I could naturally. Look at it this way, you could be walking down the road in good shape natural and there could be someone on the other side of the road that has only been training a couple of years and twice the size of you because of steroids. Its your decision to try them or not but I am glad I did and I am now getting good gains for my efforts as in my opinion there is only so far you can go natural which I did. I only do two cycles a year and that is enough and my pct is good but think long and hard before you decide and make sure you have plenty of knowledge on the subject before you do and make sure you have your pct ready. It's not a wonder drug though and you still have to train hard and get your diet right to get the gains but the motivation is there and still will be when you finish your cycle with the right frame of mind. These are only my reasons for trying them and my opinions on the subject and some may disagree with what I said but everyone is different, best of luck mate with whatever you decide to do.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

jonesboy said:


> there is only so far you can go natural which I did.


Not doubting you personally but 99% of people on here haven't reached their potential naturally, they use the "potential" argument as an excuse for their laziness...

Look in the natural physiques sticky on this forum, there are some people in amazing shape because they actually bothered to push themselves.


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## jonesboy (Apr 7, 2013)

L11 said:


> Not doubting you personally but 99% of people on here haven't reached their potential naturally, they use the "potential" argument as an excuse for their laziness...
> 
> Look in the natural physiques sticky on this forum, there are some people in amazing shape because they actually bothered to push themselves.


You have a very good fair point well said and I hope people take note of it. I am 44 years of age myself and I first did them when I was 27 years old then my Mrs got pregnant so I packed in the weight and the cycles. I didnt train again until I was 33 and I didn't do another cycle until I was 38 until I thought I could get no further. I totally agree with you that many lazy people go on them for fast results but that's their decision but I know I wasn't one of them. If you are still getting gains natural then good for you and you have my 100% respect and hope it didn't come across that I was promoting steroids as the easy route. If it sounds like that then I would be more than happy to amend or delete my post as it was not my intension at all, thanks again for you comment.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

jonesboy said:


> You have a very good fair point well said and I hope people take note of it. I am 44 years of age myself and I first did them when I was 27 years old then my Mrs got pregnant so I packed in the weight and the cycles. I didnt train again until I was 33 and I didn't do another cycle until I was 38 until I thought I could get no further. I totally agree with you that many lazy people go on them for fast results but that's their decision but I know I wasn't one of them. If you are still getting gains natural then good for you and you have my 100% respect and hope it didn't come across that I was promoting steroids as the easy route. If it sounds like that then I would be more than happy to amend or delete my post as it was not my intension at all, thanks again for you comment.


No you made your point pretty well I'm certainly not arguing with your experience.

Only the person themselves can judge whether they've truly reached their peak, but given the OP's age I would argue that it is very unlikely that he has.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Ofcourse, aslong as they have the knowledge they should be fine. Knowledge is power after all. But if they don't at 18 they could cause some serious damage. They are still growing after all but like you said aslong as the do it right they should be fine.
> 
> How old was you when you started??


20 mate 



L11 said:


> Not doubting you personally but 99% of people on here haven't reached their potential naturally, they use the "potential" argument as an excuse for their laziness...
> 
> Look in the natural physiques sticky on this forum, there are some people in amazing shape because they actually bothered to push themselves.


I don't think it's lazyness, I'm not lazy at all (well maybe a bit) it's just impatience. It's alright for you, you've already got a decent physique, for those of us that don't it's a race to get it so we can start enjoying the benefits it brings


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> I don't think it's lazyness, I'm not lazy at all (well maybe a bit) it's just impatience. It's alright for you, you've already got a decent physique, for those of us that don't it's a race to get it so we can start enjoying the benefits it brings


Yea, coz I was born with this phsyique, didn't work hard in the gym for 5 years or anything..

Thin line between impatience and laziness.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

L11 said:


> Yea, coz I was born with this phsyique, didn't work hard in the gym for 5 years or anything..
> 
> Thin line between impatience and laziness.


So you had the benefit of starting early. If I could go back and start early I would. But fvck sitting here at 23 waiting for things to slowly change when I should be out there enjoying myself


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> So you had the benefit of starting early. If I could go back and start early I would. But fvck sitting here at 23 waiting for things to slowly change when I should be out there enjoying myself


And how does training natty prevent you from enjoying yourself?


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

L11 said:



> And how does training natty prevent you from enjoying yourself?


I didn't mean in the gym. If I'd have had natty gains I'd probably be 2 stone lighter now, still looking seriously underweight, and wouldn't be able to enjoy myself going out, meeting people etc since I had confidence issues when I was so skinny. It's not the gear that made me happy, it's the gains from it I got quickly instead of waiting until all my time at uni had passed by and I'd missed the chance to enjoy myself.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> I didn't mean in the gym. If I'd have had natty gains I'd probably be 2 stone lighter now, still looking seriously underweight, and wouldn't be able to enjoy myself going out, meeting people etc since I had confidence issues when I was so skinny. It's not the gear that made me happy, it's the gains from it I got quickly instead of waiting until all my time at uni had passed by and I'd missed the chance to enjoy myself.


Fair enough, I'm not even going to pretend I understand anything about confidence issues.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

L11 said:


> Fair enough, I'm not even going to pretend I understand anything about confidence issues.


Yea guess we'll just agree to disagree on gear use :lol: That's the main reason I even lift, people treat you a lot differently when you look like a target, trust me :/


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> Yea guess we'll just agree to disagree on gear use :lol: That's the main reason I even lift, people treat you a lot differently when you look like a target, trust me :/


Differently how?


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

L11 said:


> Differently how?


You get zero respect, even from friends a lot of the time, when you're out you're more likely to get started on just for looking different and an easy target, used to happen to me all the time. Just [email protected] like that, every single day, would rather be dead than go back to that to be 100% honest.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

I get tempted,especially as I am older. I'd say I haven't progressed in the last 10-12yrs, I am either the same or fatter. Eating more makes me fatter, cutting gets me leaner, I just simply cannot gain any more muscle naturally.

I can train heavier,train lighter, not train at all(for a few months) and I don't change much if at all. If I train too heavy, I just get injuries, too light I lose weight...proper head fcuk.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> So you had the benefit of starting early. If I could go back and start early I would. But fvck sitting here at 23 waiting for things to slowly change when I should be out there enjoying myself


Boofricketyhoo :lol:

I didn't start training seriously until i was 27.

The main benefit of training natty for a decent amount of time is having lived and worked through the most challenging time and battling for gains. I have lived without it and achieved without.

What are the chances of someone who starts cycling, being able to come off and do it natty at a latter date? You can say 'just stay on' but is living to 80 with a drug dependency a wise idea?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Boofricketyhoo :lol:
> 
> I didn't start training seriously until i was 27.
> 
> ...


Just for the record, I'm not against AAS use. I would (and considered using it), but you have to think long term as well as short term


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## Jason88 (Mar 24, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> Just for the record, I'm not against AAS use. I would (and considered using it), but you have to think long term as well as short term


couldnt agree more


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

For me personally the main reason I don't want to use AAS again (last time was about 15 years ago) is that the gains are not maintainable even if you eat well and train properly post AAS. I don't want to have a crutch - i.e. AAS - without which I lose my gains. When you're natural you just have to accept that you'll never be nearly as big/strong as you would be on AAS, but the plus side is that you don't have to depend on chemicals for your muscles.

For the record - I'm actually still on the fence if I ever do another cycle or not, despite what I just said. :lol:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> For me personally the main reason I don't want to use AAS again (last time was about 15 years ago) is that the gains are not maintainable even if you eat well and train properly post AAS. I don't want to have a crutch - i.e. AAS - without which I lose my gains. When you're natural you just have to accept that you'll never be nearly as big/strong as you would be on AAS, but the plus side is that you don't have to depend on chemicals for your muscles.
> 
> For the record - I'm actually still on the fence if I ever do another cycle or not, despite what I just said. :lol:


It may not be the same for everyone, but you definitely can keep your gains post cycle.

A friend of mine who's done two cycles (test only & test + deca), went traveling for 6 months and came back pretty much the same size just a bit softer, although he had already been training for 4 years natty so had a good base to start on, which I think is key. He's back to training now and is staying natty because he's whipped lol.

Today I feel like staying natty for another year to see if I can acheve:

Bench BW x 1.25

Squat BW x 2.00

Dead BW 2.25

but we'll see what happens lol


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> It may not be the same for everyone, but you definitely can keep your gains post cycle.
> 
> A friend of mine who's done two cycles (test only & test + deca), went traveling for 6 months and came back pretty much the same size just a bit softer, although he had already been training for 4 years natty so had a good base to start on, which I think is key. He's back to training now and is staying natty because he's whipped lol.
> 
> ...


I remember that we had this discussion before mate. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I will say that my personal experiences were what I said above. Most seasoned users also state that steroid-induced gains are not keepable, but I would 100% love to be wrong on this.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> What are the chances of someone who starts cycling, being able to come off and do it natty at a latter date? You can say 'just stay on' but is living to 80 with a drug dependency a wise idea?


I don't have any data or anything to back up what I say, but I imagine that using low-dose testosterone year-round and maybe a few other drugs here and there (avoiding the nastier ones) probably won't screw you up, even doing this into old age.

Actually in a few years time it could well be what I'll do, because I don't want to lose my muscle mass due to age and falling hormone levels.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Yea guess we'll just agree to disagree on gear use :lol: That's the main reason I even lift, people treat you a lot differently when you look like a target, trust me :/


Are you not set to move to Australia mate? You know that gear is very hard to get hold of there and if they catch you.. :death:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I remember that we had this discussion before mate. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I will say that my personal experiences were what I said above. Most seasoned users also state that steroid-induced gains are not keepable, but I would 100% love to be wrong on this.


I did my cycle at 13 and a quarter stone are you saying if I keep diet and training in check I am going to go back to that weight?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I did my cycle at 13 and a quarter stone are you saying if I keep diet and training in check I am going to go back to that weight?


I wouldn't really wish to say what will or won't happen to you mate, but I will say what happened to me..

I did several cycles between the ages of 19 and about 24. I used the usual drugs like various esters of testosterone, deca-durabolin, Oxandrolone Spa (var), Winstrol Depot, Russian dbol, Anapolon 50, etc. My dosages were usually between 200 and 500mg per week of testosterone and I usually used to stack 2-3 drugs at a time. Oral dosages - except for Anapolon - were very low, and with hindsight I'd say that they were probably too low to have given me much benefit.

My gains were nevertheless excellent, probably because I had diet and training in check. I never used to do PCT because it was pretty much unheard of at the time. I used to use HCG mid-cycle for about a week and then at end of cycle - I can't remember the dosage.

I used to leave about 3 months between cycles and my cycles were around 2-3 months at a time. Now - I used to gain well on cycle and then I'd start to lose my gains post-cycle. Having said that the trend was always upwards because I was never off-cycle for that long. But - once I decided to stop using - I lost absolutely everything within 6-12 months despite training hard and eating well. I regressed to how I was before I ever used AAS.

Since then I have made good progress without AAS. Thus when people say - falsely in my opinion - that when you stop using AAS you revert to how big/strong you could potentially be with your natural hormone levels, I call BS. I reverted back to how I before ever using AAS, but I still progressed decently afterwards without the use of AAS.

I don't wish to comment on other people, but for me the gains were anything but permanent. You could say that it was because I didn't do PCT, didn't use HCG properly, etc. But my view is still the same - gains on AAS are temporary and within 12 months at most all steroid-induced gains are lost.


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

Interesting thread, think we all feel a bit like you do, seeing people not training as hard or as long making gains while u stay natural


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

i did my first cycle of ph's at 22... first injectable cycle at 25 (on it now) and so far ive never looked back! sure putting things in your body it isnt used to does cause some sides but nothing its over comeable... just do pleanty of reading and pleanty of training first! im not a drinker... recreational drug user or smoker so the way i see it is im no worse off than any of them lol


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Boofricketyhoo :lol:
> 
> I didn't start training seriously until i was 27.
> 
> ...


1. I don't want to waste time. If you did, good for you :thumbup1:

2. I honestly couldn't care less if I've "lived without it and achieved without" how does that make a single shred of difference? Unless they're doing some sort of new Blue Peter badge for it I didn't know about

3. I don't see how, as long as you genetic limit isn't reached, coming off would affect you that badly. It's not hard at all to maintain what you've gained, off cycle.

Sorry for the list I'm in a rush :lol:


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> I wouldn't really wish to say what will or won't happen to you mate, but I will say what happened to me..
> 
> I did several cycles between the ages of 19 and about 24. I used the usual drugs like various esters of testosterone, deca-durabolin, Oxandrolone Spa (var), Winstrol Depot, Russian dbol, Anapolon 50, etc. My dosages were usually between 200 and 500mg per week of testosterone and I usually used to stack 2-3 drugs at a time. Oral dosages - except for Anapolon - were very low, and with hindsight I'd say that they were probably too low to have given me much benefit.
> 
> ...


Of course you lost your gains, you didn't do a PCT :lol:


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Of course you lost your gains, you didn't do a PCT :lol:


You could be right mate - but I think that if you ask the really seasoned steroid-users they'll tell you that eventually you lose all the gains, whether you do PCT or not. No doubt PCT helps you keep the gains for longer, but still not forever.

Again - like I said before - I'd love to be wrong. Normally I like to be right when I make assertions - in this case not.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> You could be right mate - but I think that if you ask the really seasoned steroid-users they'll tell you that eventually you lose all the gains, whether you do PCT or not. No doubt PCT helps you keep the gains for longer, but still not forever.
> 
> Again - like I said before - I'd love to be wrong. Normally I like to be right when I make assertions - in this case not.


Only if you go above your genetic limit mate. I've got friends who've run cycles, sitting at around 14 stone lean and after a proper PCT never touched gear again. They make no progress but they never lose size, all about maintaining. With average test levels and carrying less muscle than your genetic limit, as long as you have the kcals and training there there's no reason why you'd lose gains.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> 1. I don't want to waste time. If you did, good for you :thumbup1:
> 
> 2. I honestly couldn't care less if I've "lived without it and achieved without" how does that make a single shred of difference? Unless they're doing some sort of new Blue Peter badge for it I didn't know about
> 
> ...


1. I didn't waste time. I had a thorough education. And an education for life

2. I think you miss my point. What I am saying is that if you learn your trade whilst on. You are more than likely going to have issue when you do remain off. If you are the mega disciplined that can deal with the off time, which by your posts I think its fair to say you aren't, I'm sure its no issue. But be prepared to make a life long decision. It's not about the blue peter badge.

3. I get your point. But see the previous point. It's nice to think you can put on the turbo get to the finish line and walk to the winners circle.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> But everyday I change my mind, one day I'm against it because of the potential sides, the next day I think to myself I should get some dbol just to see how it goes, and the next day I think *fu*k it*, 12 week 500mg test with a kickstart, why the fu*k not, everyone else is?!
> 
> Anybody else get this from time to time?? It's so tempting, especially when you see 18 year olds on cycle with a years worth of training, bigger than you :lol:


The sides arnt that bad mate iv only got big purple acne scars on my back and shoulders, lost half inch of hairline, slight gyno which comes and goes, shin splits, face has changed shape, big purple stretchmarks under my arms and in the creases of my armpit, nuts like acorns and a hole in my bedroom door.

Get on it mate :thumb:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

I've got to admit, being drug dependant for the rest of my lifting life, doesn't sound very appealing.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> I've got to admit, being drug dependant for the rest of my lifting life, doesn't sound very appealing.


I am very sure I would never go down to 13 stone again if diet and training is kept in check. I cant see my lifts going down by much if I never cycled again tbh.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I am very sure I would never go down to 13 stone again if diet and training is kept in check. I cant see my lifts going down by much if I never cycled again tbh.


I think if you train, eat and pct properly, gains are 90% keepable. I mean that steroids are like pringles, once you pop you just can't stop :lol:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> I think if you train, eat and pct properly, gains are 90% keepable. I mean that steroids are like pringles, once you pop you just can't stop :lol:


Ah right thought you ment because if you stop you will end up back at square 1.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Imo the most important things should be:

Not to cycle until fully developed

and

When you do cycle, to try and achieve your goals with as little gear use as possible.

Theres too many stories of lost gains, staying on due to inability to cope with pct/without aas, trt, anf dysfunctional dick.


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> I've only been training for 18 months so there's definitely some natty potential left. I'll lose some strength with the summer cut, so by the end of the next bulk (this time next year) I'll probably have only added 10-15kg to the main 3, whereas I could easily smash that within 12 weeks and still have time to add more, I know I'll be getting on at some point in the next year or so so why wait, like you say, it's a decision I have to make myself, and of course I'll keep a journal of it all
> 
> My current journal if anyone's interested- shameless advertising, I know lol :rolleye:
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/214438-rd-journal-self.html


you wont loose that much strength mate..

i was thinking this but ive dropped down to just above 70kg on my cut the only thing thats really suffered is my squat - DL is just over double body weight, i dont barbell bench cos of a niggling shoulder issue but i can bang out the 40kg DBs for two sets and up to the 47.5's 5/3/1 (42.5,45,47.5)


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