# New Power PCT vs old Power PCT



## gaz_0001 (Jul 6, 2010)

What are you thoughts?

The new PCT sees the Nolvadex dose increase from 20mg ED to 40mg ED, and reduces the HCG dose from 2500iu EOD to 2000iu EOD, but increases the length of treatment.

Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Well i don't agree with the old one so i certainly dont agree with the new one  .


----------



## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Do you stand by the 5000iu per week 1 shot? 20mg nolva?


----------



## gaz_0001 (Jul 6, 2010)

Mars said:


> Well i don't agree with the old one so i certainly dont agree with the new one  .


I was going to give the new one a go.

Whats is your PCT of choice then Mars?


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

gaz_0001 said:


> I was going to give the new one a go.
> 
> Whats is your PCT of choice then Mars?


Mars has written pages and pages on PCT if you go and look at the stickies..


----------



## Vibora (Sep 30, 2007)

Mars said:


> Well i don't agree with the old one so i certainly dont agree with the new one  .


Quick points on what you don't agree with the protocol?

(I'm assuming its the HCG dosing rather than the Nolva/Clomid dosing).


----------



## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

i thought anything over 20mg of nolva was a waste?


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't agree with the hCG dosing and i'm very suprised that Ex Dr Scally still does, given the recent findings on the MOA of hCG.

I don't agree with the 45 day protocol either. There is a possibility that clomid may raise your test levels slightly (provisionally and only while you are taking it) for those 45 days but once you stop taking it your test levels will return to what they were before you took the clomid, so basically it may help you feel a little better but TBH most guys who take clomid (even if it does raise their test levels) actually feel worse, on top of this we come back to the age old debate of whether it actually helps recovery anyway or could it possibly even hinder recovery.


----------



## dan_mk (Feb 16, 2012)

Do you really need that much stuff for PCT?? Many of the protocols I've seen have just been Nolva OR Clomid

I for one will be using just Nolva 40/20/20/20 & 2500iu HCG for 4 weeks unless there's a good excuse why that's not enough


----------



## gaz_0001 (Jul 6, 2010)

I though the power pc was an age old tried and tested routine?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nothing wrong with either one.

The total iu of HCG does not change at all over the period of time.

Clomid works well, it is used by endo's to diagnose secondary acquired hypogonadism.

The whole biphasic deal with HCG is not based on science but one guy.

EOD protocol is fine, blood prove this, nothing is outdated it works and works well.

I can't tell you how many people have recovered with this, and I can think of a handful that actually got their misses pregnant.

I will drop names if anyone likes.

Big vin is the only man I have not been able to help, but he was not that good at following directions and went back on.

I do think I could have helped him but he wants TRT for life at over double the recommended dose.

The protocol can be confirmed below.

Also look at the edno guidelines, I hate defending success.

ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

hypogonadism.pdf


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

gaz_0001 said:


> I though the power pc was an age old tried and tested routine?


It is, and if followed one should recover, unless someone has been on for years using very suppressive gear like deca.


----------



## 0gge1 (Apr 4, 2012)

hackskii said:


> It is, and if followed one should recover, unless someone has been on for years using very suppressive gear like deca.


Hackskii !

What i can see you know what you are talking about. I would like to ask you some questions, but i cant for some reason send you PM. Could you contact me at [email protected] ( 0gge with number 0). I would really really appreciate that.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Email sent


----------



## an737926 (Mar 24, 2013)

I as well have some questions for you hackskii if you wouldn't mind taking a second and shooting me a email.(PCT related) 

[email protected]

thanks!


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

an737926 said:


> I as well have some questions for you hackskii if you wouldn't mind taking a second and shooting me a email.(PCT related)
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> thanks!


Done


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mars said:


> I don't agree with the hCG dosing and i'm very suprised that Ex Dr Scally still does, given the recent findings on the MOA of hCG.
> 
> I don't agree with the 45 day protocol either. There is a possibility that clomid may raise your test levels slightly (provisionally and only while you are taking it) for those 45 days but once you stop taking it your test levels will return to what they were before you took the clomid, so basically it may help you feel a little better but TBH most guys who take clomid (even if it does raise their test levels) actually feel worse, on top of this we come back to the age old debate of whether it actually helps recovery anyway or could it possibly even hinder recovery.


I've heard you say this a couple of times about pct Mars. Could you explain a bit more exactly what you mean...sounds like you're saying pct is counter productive?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Clomid does not hinder recovery, nothing suggests this, no studies, guys that recover just fine, sure some do not like clomid, but never had any issues with it other than vision problems.

Generally speaking testicular function is the key to slow recovery, sort that, you are good to go.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Clomid does not hinder recovery, nothing suggests this, no studies, guys that recover just fine, sure some do not like clomid, but never had any issues with it other than vision problems.
> 
> Generally speaking testicular function is the key to slow recovery, sort that, you are good to go.


So it's all about hcg then isn't it?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> So it's all about hcg then isn't it?


Pretty much, if you used HCG throughout the cycle, then during clearance time you just did nothing, you probably would recovery pretty good.

Lets do the math as verified by a guy from Australia I am helping right now that has been on for years he did the Power PCT.

He did bloods day 13 and found he was within upper range of normal with his testosterone.

FSH was 1, but his LH was .1, so this tells me that the clomid is aiding in FSH, yet the HCG is crushing LH.

Technically his FSH was bottom end of normal, LH was hammered.

So, this suggests to me HCG is suppressing LH big time, now granted it was low anyway but clomid probably did zero in returning that, and ouside the influence of the HCG it will bump up LH and up to double.

Here is a graph where I think the guys were on 250mg a week for 6 months, notice how even with nothing being done the LH starts to move 2 weeks with no intervention.

This suggests to me the pituitary fires back pretty damn fast using nothing, also notice how long even 10 weeks later how T levels were still low.

Now notice the first spike in LH is at the 10 week mark where testosterone starts making its move.

Now, this is just like using the tools you need to get the job done, notice the testicles lag behind?

Notice how fast LH moves then over time the testicles become more stimulated to LH, then a more rapid response from the LH?


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

Mars said:


> Well i don't agree with the old one so i certainly dont agree with the new one  .


what would u recommend?


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

hackskii said:


> View attachment 115146
> 
> 
> Pretty much, if you used HCG throughout the cycle, then during clearance time you just did nothing, you probably would recovery pretty good.
> ...


As always mate, alot of what you said there confused the hell out of me...but I think I get the general idea. Not sure I will ever fully understand the science behind recovery.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> As always mate, alot of what you said there confused the hell out of me...but I think I get the general idea. Not sure I will ever fully understand the science behind recovery.


I can just see it in my mind.

It is just a simple math equation, and to be honest, math is my worst subject.

But, for instance I understand credit, and debt, it is just 1's and 0's, and negatives, with math I cant understand anything besides basic math, guys can ramble on about equations and all kinds of stuff and I get lost fast.

But, when I talk to them why the refinanced their houses, used money out of the house to invest, they tell me that is what their financial adviser suggested.

But, dude took 100 grand out of his house when the market was up, blew 20 grand, housing tanked, now he is upside down in his home, and his investments were worth less than what he originally put in.

And he paid someone to tell him that:lol:

You see, somethings make sense to me, some do not, if I understand it I just see it, it is simple and absolute in my mind, but other things, I can't see so therefor I cant understand.


----------



## Solid_Cole (May 29, 2013)

@ Hackskii - Thanks for the tons of useful information re: PCT, seems it has been a bit of an area where clarity is seldom achieved. I am new to the forum and have been reading till the letters started floating. Would you mind terribly if I mailed you my details as I used PCT after every cycle and have recently been tested for test levels and they are way way low. I would like to mail these to you and possibly get your view on recovering before going onto TRT as the doc wants me to. If this is cool by you please drop me a mail to [email protected]


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Solid_Cole said:


> @ Hackskii - Thanks for the tons of useful information re: PCT, seems it has been a bit of an area where clarity is seldom achieved. I am new to the forum and have been reading till the letters started floating. Would you mind terribly if I mailed you my details as I used PCT after every cycle and have recently been tested for test levels and they are way way low. I would like to mail these to you and possibly get your view on recovering before going onto TRT as the doc wants me to. If this is cool by you please drop me a mail to [email protected]


Done


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

Hackskii if u did a cycle of.deca and test five yrs ago and didn't.ever.do.pct. and atophied.nuts came.most way back.to.size but libido is low but roughly.functional and test.around 290...can scallys.power pct bring u back to normal? I don't want to cycle ever again just normal test energy and.libido. nuts are.size.of.small eggs but might.have.been tiny.bit.bigger.before. I've been reading.for days but I'm.a.newb. plz.let.me.know if.it could be worth a.shot. my buddy said he used scallys for.his.buddy who had no pct after deca and low.t for.7 years since.and.it worked.great. is this.possible? Plz.say so.


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

motownrecovery said:


> Hackskii if u did a cycle of.deca and test five yrs ago and didn't.ever.do.pct. and atophied.nuts came.most way back.to.size but libido is low but roughly.functional and test.around 290...can scallys.power pct bring u back to normal? I don't want to cycle ever again just normal test energy and.libido. nuts are.size.of.small eggs but might.have.been tiny.bit.bigger.before. I've been reading.for days but I'm.a.newb. plz.let.me.know if.it could be worth a.shot. my buddy said he used scallys for.his.buddy who had no pct after deca and low.t for.7 years since.and.it worked.great. is this.possible? Plz.say so.


How old are you? If your test levels have been at 290 for 5 years since your cycle, you have most likely knackered them up abit, I did the same, my test levels are still sh!t now, 13.7 at 29 years old. You could try and power pct but like quite a few others say it may just go back to 290 after you finish, but no harm in trying


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

35. has anyone recovered from this.scenario with power.pct?  I. Thought they had. Am I wrong? I thought someone on here said.its.never too late to pct. Its about how u got shutdown

... and then doing it right with power pct.....that scallys pct is perfect for eg deca scenario or other aas even late. Is there.any.hope at.all? Wrong? Hackskii ? Anyone? Any.success stories like.this?


----------



## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

Power PCT is only going to screw up your homeostasis. If it's been 5 years then 290 is your level. That's not low enough for TRT in the UK but in the States it's easier to get TRT prescribed from an Aging Clinic. You can try test boosters which might be able to get you to about 400 (with good diet). Some people just never regain the test levels they had pre-cycle. I see no reason to suffer with sub 300 levels when self-precribed TRT is beyond cheap. 125mg - normally 0.5ml, every 10 days - gives you 20 shots and lasts 6 goddamned months. And will put your test levels at around 1000 at peak. Energy, sex drive, improved body composition for less than 50 quid for a whole bloody year. #trt4lifebitchez


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

How come? Sorry to hear that.

So I might have a chance in my scenario.since its straight forward? U read any similar success stories?


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

I hear u and can.respect that but I'd.like.to avoid.trt for.the.rest.of.my.life if.I.can.

I don't want the risks or the nads gone or needles.all.the.time. also many say test.feels good.for.cpl.months and then its.crap. if I.have to eventually I will but.I'd.like.to.try.to reset first sooo badly.if.its.possible at.all


----------



## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

motownrecovery said:


> also many say test.feels good.for.cpl.months and then its.crap.l


Totally not true. People have been on TRT for decades and it has transfomed their life.

Try the test boosters like DAA - most of them are crap though. I'd rather pin once every 10 days than take a SERM for the rest of my life. Try Clomid for a year, see how good that makes you feel. There is no magic pill or PCT that is going to raise your test permanently. Your level is 290, etched in stone. Actually it will only get worse from now. Good luck with that. Personally I enjoy boning the missus 2-3 times a week. Test has transformed my marriage. Simple as that.


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

How long had you been off before getting that reading mate? Can you compare it to pre-cycle numbers?



SSJay said:


> How old are you? If your test levels have been at 290 for 5 years since your cycle, you have most likely knackered them up abit, I did the same, my test levels are still sh!t now, 13.7 at 29 years old. You could try and power pct but like quite a few others say it may just go back to 290 after you finish, but no harm in trying


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

motownrecovery said:


> How come? Sorry to hear that.
> 
> So I might have a chance in my scenario.since its straight forward? U read any similar success stories?


Have you been to see a specialist to find out why your test is low? Could be a while host of reasons.

I would follow that route before throwing substances at your body after been off everything for 5 years.

Also, with a test level of 290 I think you could quality for trt but it will be based on symptoms and you would have to hammer home to them your symptoms should you want trt. But not before you explore every other avenue


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

JR8908 said:


> How long had you been off before getting that reading mate? Can you compare it to pre-cycle numbers?


Yes bud. 26 years old I had levels of 21, did a deca cycle then ran pct and my numbers were 9.2, 3 years later I had them tested again 13.7. I ran DAA for 4 weeks then had tested again but exactly the same still 13.7 again. I think a fair amount of people on here don't know their true levels they think because their nuts are full and they feel okay their levels must be booming. 13.7 is supposed to be that of a 80 year old man and if I didn't get tested I wouldn't of even noticed I had low test, as I feel fine.


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

SSJay said:


> Yes bud. 26 years old I had levels of 21, did a deca cycle then ran pct and my numbers were 9.2, 3 years later I had them tested again 13.7. I ran DAA for 4 weeks then had tested again but exactly the same still 13.7 again. I think a fair amount of people on here don't know their true levels they think because their nuts are full and they feel okay their levels must be booming. 13.7 is supposed to be that of a 80 year old man and if I didn't get tested I wouldn't of even noticed I had low test, as I feel fine.


Jesus that's a big hit going from 21 to 13.7.

Did you run any cycles in between your 9.2 and 13.7 result? If not it looks like it took a long time for the levels to build back up.

How do you feel at 13.7? Edit - just noticed you said you feel fine


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

Logman said:


> There is no magic pill or PCT that is going to raise your test permanently. Your level is 290, etched in stone. Actually it will only get worse from now..


So there no chance at all.scallys.pct.would.work? I thought guys who had been on aas or trt for years restarted.and.late.pcters like me. Omg this.sucks. I.was.sure.I.had.a.chance. noones ever recovered from.my situation? One deca cycle ever?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

motownrecovery said:


> Hackskii if u did a cycle of.deca and test five yrs ago and didn't.ever.do.pct. and atophied.nuts came.most way back.to.size but libido is low but roughly.functional and test.around 290...can scallys.power pct bring u back to normal? I don't want to cycle ever again just normal test energy and.libido. nuts are.size.of.small eggs but might.have.been tiny.bit.bigger.before. I've been reading.for days but I'm.a.newb. plz.let.me.know if.it could be worth a.shot. my buddy said he used scallys for.his.buddy who had no pct after deca and low.t for.7 years since.and.it worked.great. is this.possible? Plz.say so.


 @hackskiii will be able to answer your questions.

He may still be subcribed to this, but I've given him a tag for you anyway.


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

Thanks


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Logman said:


> Power PCT is only going to screw up your homeostasis. If it's been 5 years then 290 is your level. That's not low enough for TRT in the UK but in the States it's easier to get TRT prescribed from an Aging Clinic. You can try test boosters which might be able to get you to about 400 (with good diet). Some people just never regain the test levels they had pre-cycle. I see no reason to suffer with sub 300 levels when self-precribed TRT is beyond cheap. 125mg - normally 0.5ml, every 10 days - gives you 20 shots and lasts 6 goddamned months. And will put your test levels at around 1000 at peak. Energy, sex drive, improved body composition for less than 50 quid for a whole bloody year. #trt4lifebitchez


No good if you want kids.


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Well my plan is to come off next year. Hook up with hacksi get the Mrs preggers then I'm self trt  )


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

motownrecovery said:


> Hackskii if u did a cycle of.deca and test five yrs ago and didn't.ever.do.pct. and atophied.nuts came.most way back.to.size but libido is low but roughly.functional and test.around 290...can scallys.power pct bring u back to normal? I don't want to cycle ever again just normal test energy and.libido. nuts are.size.of.small eggs but might.have.been tiny.bit.bigger.before. I've been reading.for days but I'm.a.newb. plz.let.me.know if.it could be worth a.shot. my buddy said he used scallys for.his.buddy who had no pct after deca and low.t for.7 years since.and.it worked.great. is this.possible? Plz.say so.


Sorry for the delay, I don't visit much on the weekends, and work has me swamped so free time is hard to find now days.

5 years is too late to do anything, but things like 25mg zinc, 200 to 400mg magnesium, and for sure 5000iu vitamin D every day will move your numbers up some, and libido too.

Prior to my adding in vitamin D, I rarely got night time erections, now, every day and also sex dreams, the stuff if one is deficient works super well.

When was the time of day you took your test?

That makes a huge difference between morning and afternoon.

If the above does not help, low dose clomid at 25mg EOD will help some.

Do you have night time erections?

Can you keep or maintain an erection?

Can you masturbate by your self without using porn and ejaculate?

What is your mood like?

Things like sleep apnea, vitamin, or mineral deficiency can cause issues with low testosterone, as well as bad sleep, anxiety, stress, prescription drugs, etc all will interfere with testosterone production.


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

Ohhhhh no. I thought a power.pct might.pop me out.of.it  not worth even trying?

I took my test early afternoon 1pm to 3pm

I rarely.get morning.wood.

I usually can keep and maintain erections but usually. Seem a bit soft..or go down fast without stimulation

Yes I can masterbate.with ejaculate.without porn

I'm usually feeling great but lately can't sleep lost appetite anxiety tired. Thas why I want to restart. I really thought my scenario of just one cycle ever could b reversed. U r saying.don't.bother? No chance at all?

I had some.blood tests...thyroid liver vitmain etc and.blood.counts.came.back normal. Just the 290 test.

What r my best options. After.a workoit 6 weeks.ago I've.felt.like crap and I'm so scared. Docs say I'm just anxiuous..prescibed me trazadone.to.sleep.


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

JR8908 said:


> Jesus that's a big hit going from 21 to 13.7.
> 
> Did you run any cycles in between your 9.2 and 13.7 result? If not it looks like it took a long time for the levels to build back up.
> 
> How do you feel at 13.7? Edit - just noticed you said you feel fine


No mate no cycles in between, the 9.2 result was straight after my PCT, I didn't get checked again until years later so I have no idea how long it took to get to 13.7, I just no its stuck there lol.


----------



## Insty (Oct 14, 2013)

@hackskii Hello, I am very sorry but if it is possible to get in touch with you via mail? Have a serious probleme, and no Russian doctors can help me. [email protected]

Thanks in advance!


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

motownrecovery said:


> Ohhhhh no. I thought a power.pct might.pop me out.of.it  not worth even trying?
> 
> I took my test early afternoon 1pm to 3pm
> 
> ...


You are not a candidate for the power PCT, overstimulation of the leydig cells may cause issues later on, and totally not even necessary.

If you took your test early morning like 7:00 your numbers would be higher, if you can jerk off using no porn, you are fine.

Much of what you are going through is in your own head, nothing to do with the deca years ago.

Vitamin D at 5000iu would be what I would suggest right not.



Insty said:


> @hackskii Hello, I am very sorry but if it is possible to get in touch with you via mail? Have a serious probleme, and no Russian doctors can help me. [email protected]
> 
> Thanks in advance!


----------



## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

Hackskii I have been using this site for a few years and read lots of your posts. You have helped a lot of people and also myself. I can't remember exactly if it was your posts I read but I got my eventually got my wife pregnant afew year ago. Sites like this and help like yours is a god send. I wish I had access to this site 10 years ago and the knowledge I now know from your information. Thank you mate


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

gavzilla said:


> Hackskii I have been using this site for a few years and read lots of your posts. You have helped a lot of people and also myself. I can't remember exactly if it was your posts I read but I got my eventually got my wife pregnant afew year ago. Sites like this and help like yours is a god send. I wish I had access to this site 10 years ago and the knowledge I now know from your information. Thank you mate


Well, 10 years ago I would not be able to help like I can now.

Thanks man


----------



## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> No good if you want kids.


I got 3, oldest is 15. But yea, if you're young and want kids best put up with the low test. Never regret having had kids early as now I can cruise forever.


----------



## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

motownrecovery said:


> Ohhhhh no. I thought a power.pct might.pop me out.of.it  not worth even trying?
> 
> I took my test early afternoon 1pm to 3pm
> 
> ...


Usually you feel great, libido is fine, no sexual dysfunction and you're just a bit tired? C'mon, you're having a fecking laugh. You're tired because of lack of sleep. Reason for not sleeping is not low test. I'm an insomniac, have been for a long time. Prescription sleeping pills allow me to function as a human being. Been on them for 7 years now and really couldn't give a flying fock. Why battle something that is easily fixed? Prescription costs a tenner a month and I sleep like a baby.


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

.


----------



## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

You have deep psychological issues. I'd say you were a troll but I know hypochondriacs like you really exist.

Is fine for 5 years, has a rough sh!t, goes for ultrasound, x-ray and 3 blood tests. Worries about tingles in his arms and legs. Get the fack outta here.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Easy on the guy, he is going through something right now, he needs support, not a kick in the balls.


----------



## chiqui (Oct 28, 2009)

hackskii said:


> Easy on the guy, he is going through something right now, he needs support, not a kick in the balls.


Hackskii ive been on blast an cruise for the past eight months.

Missus wants to get preggas been trying for past year an halfwith no luck.

Now its time for me to come off for fertility reasons to see if that helps,anyways im guna start power pct in bout 2-3 weeks time,

Wud u add proviron in there an at wat dose an howlong?

Will proviron affect hpta recovery in anyway?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

chiqui said:


> Hackskii ive been on blast an cruise for the past eight months.
> 
> Missus wants to get preggas been trying for past year an halfwith no luck.
> 
> ...


You could add proviron, wont hurt, might even make you feel a bit better.

You may or may not recover after the Power PCT, fertility is the last thing to come back, that could take up to a year, or longer to recover.


----------



## d_mean (Oct 29, 2013)

Sorry for trespassing,

hackskii , Is it possible to get in touch with you? I'll recently got member of this forum so I can't send you PM yet.

Thanks for your time man!

/D_Mean


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

d_mean said:


> Sorry for trespassing,
> 
> hackskii , Is it possible to get in touch with you? I'll recently got member of this forum so I can't send you PM yet.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Hello hackskii,

Got a major issue, blood test came back last week...not good at all:

Test: 3.89

LH: 0.12

FSH: 0.46

estrodiol: 130

I am really stressed as I have zero libido, please can you help


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> Hello hackskii,
> 
> Got a major issue, blood test came back last week...not good at all:
> 
> ...


Prime candidate for the Power PCT, you are shutdown.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Okay just to confirm:

16 days HCG 2500iu EOD

30 days clomid 50 mg twice a day

45 days nolvadex 20 mg

Should I take anything else?


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Is there a chance I can call you for advise please.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> Okay just to confirm:
> 
> 16 days HCG 2500iu EOD
> 
> ...


I would take 1 cod liver tab a day.

I also would take 5000iu vitamin d every day

ZMA at night before bed would be a good idea.

If you took blood work at around the 2 week mark to see where your T levels are at, this would be a good idea to see how you are responding to the HCG.

If in range then drop the HCG, if not, you may need to go longer.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> Is there a chance I can call you for advise please.


where do you live?

I am in the USA.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm in UAE Dubai, just recently got married, stressed out of my head, can't work and think straight with this problem.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Also would you recommend taking the following along side the POWER PCT? Unleashed, post cycle, reversitol.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

By the way I was taking HCG few weeks ago but on a smaller dose 500iu Ed, my test levels went up from 3.0 to 22.6 two weeks later after stopping HCG test levels went back down to 3.89 LH FSH remained almost the same did increase but only by .08


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

hackskii said:


> I would take 1 cod liver tab a day.
> 
> I also would take 5000iu vitamin d every day
> 
> ...


Hacks....is the power PCT 100mg Clomid for 30 days straight? I thought it was something like 100/50/50 or am I mistaken mate?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> Also would you recommend taking the following along side the POWER PCT? Unleashed, post cycle, reversitol.


That stuff wont help, the 5000iu vitamin d will.



Chelsea said:


> Hacks....is the power PCT 100mg Clomid for 30 days straight? I thought it was something like 100/50/50 or am I mistaken mate?


Ok, I am of two thoughts on this one so here goes.

When HCG is in the mix LH will crash, even with the use of clomid.

FSH will rise while on clomid and HCG and FSH supports leydig cells.

But from the time HCG is removed from the mix clomid has little time to raise LH, and it will but clomid tends to give some pretty good sides like 3 weeks at 100mg per day.

So, if less clomid is used during the use of HCG, you could stretch it a bit longer after the HCG is dropped to avoid the sides till later out.

The new PCT is every 3 days for HCG, which then would leave even less time for clomid to work.

Kind of a catch 22, the faster you get the nuts up, the longer you have to bring the pituitary back online.

I have seen clomid at just 50mg bring LH to 29 which is way over the 9 range upper end of natty levels.


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

hackskii said:


> That stuff wont help, the 5000iu vitamin d will.
> 
> Ok, I am of two thoughts on this one so here goes.
> 
> ...


So what would you use if you were looking to recover mate, which method would suit?

HCG eod and more time on Clomid or HCG e3d with less time on Clomid but a higher dose for longer?


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Okay so the POA is as follows:

POWER PCT

5000 IU VD

I Cod liver oil tab

3 caps of ZMA before retiring.

Any specific timings for the other meds

Hope to GOD this works out.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

In your expert opinion hackskii, on seeing my blood results do you think there's a chance of recovery from my shut down. I have just bought VD and ZMA, also can nolvadex clomid have any reverse effects on your recovery if taken for a period of time. As I believe I've been taking clomid and nolvadex for 2 weeks now already.

Thanks


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Chelsea said:


> So what would you use if you were looking to recover mate, which method would suit?
> 
> HCG eod and more time on Clomid or HCG e3d with less time on Clomid but a higher dose for longer?


If it was me, aside from doing HCG during and not have to worry about things like this, if I was shut down I would probably go the route of every 3 days, using 20 to 40mg nolva during the use of HCG, and or the addition of some clomid, the twards the end of the HCG bump up the clomid and run it longer.

I might even taper that down to ensure things will stay bumped.

even at 50mg nolva, it will still put you over twice the upper end of normal for LH.

Depending on if the HPTA is running the way it should.

Clomid can double LH after 5 to 7 days at 100mg, but if your LH is just .1 the doubling that wont be anything spectacular, but chances are it would be higher than double at .1.

HCG when using it probably should have bloods done to see where your testosterone levels are, if too low, it will still need to be taken, if in range, dropped.



Cameron88 said:


> Okay so the POA is as follows:
> 
> POWER PCT
> 
> ...


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> In your expert opinion hackskii, on seeing my blood results do you think there's a chance of recovery from my shut down. I have just bought VD and ZMA, also can nolvadex clomid have any reverse effects on your recovery if taken for a period of time. As I believe I've been taking clomid and nolvadex for 2 weeks now already.
> 
> Thanks


Were you on gear before?


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

would proviron help or should I stay away from that.

Also if testosterone levels improve with HCG is that a good sign or am I being too optimistic.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Yes I've been on gear before many times but never ever incurred this sort of problem. But this time I took extra winny and deca,

have ppl recovered from having blood results as bad as mine, as far as I have seen on this forum my blood results may be the worst of them all.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh man, nice bomb shell there.

How much deca, how long did you use it, and how long ago was your last shot?

No on the proviron.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

I have some aramosin, would that help at all? It's my 2nd day of hcg today, will keep you posted on my progress...


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

I did HCG 500iu ed 3 weeks ago with 50mg clomid and 20 mg nolvadex for 10 days, my test levels came back as 22.6 nmol/L a significant jump from 3.0 2 weeks prior. I dropped the HCG and continued taking clomid and nolvadex at the same dose got my blood tests done few days ago and my test levels came back as 3.89 nmol/L??? A drop again. Can you please advise on this and protocol should I take with the POWER PCT.

Many thanks hackskii


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Hackskii would HGH or DHEA help on my current status alongside the POWER PCT?


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Hackskii have you heard of "LUVERIS" injections, pl look in to that and advise if that will be ok to take to increase the LH levels after stopping HCG


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> I have some aramosin, would that help at all? It's my 2nd day of hcg today, will keep you posted on my progress...


I doubt it would be of any help.



Cameron88 said:


> I did HCG 500iu ed 3 weeks ago with 50mg clomid and 20 mg nolvadex for 10 days, my test levels came back as 22.6 nmol/L a significant jump from 3.0 2 weeks prior. I dropped the HCG and continued taking clomid and nolvadex at the same dose got my blood tests done few days ago and my test levels came back as 3.89 nmol/L??? A drop again. Can you please advise on this and protocol should I take with the POWER PCT.
> 
> Many thanks hackskii


You see the testicles are working, just the pituitary is not sending the signal to the leydig cells.



Cameron88 said:


> Hackskii would HGH or DHEA help on my current status alongside the POWER PCT?


Yes possibly for the HGH, and possibly on the DHEA if you have adrenal fatigue, or stress, low dose though like 25mg max per day.



Cameron88 said:


> Hackskii have you heard of "LUVERIS" injections, pl look in to that and advise if that will be ok to take to increase the LH levels after stopping HCG


Nah, that really wont be of that much help, those are FSH injections pretty much, and what you need is 100mg clomid per day, and 20mg nolva per day.

Start that and when you start getting night time erections and feel better you can drop the dose to 50mg and run that for a bit.

You may even want to taper that over time as well.

Influence on LH with clomid is pretty impressive, and even moreso over time.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Oh man, nice bomb shell there.
> 
> How much deca, how long did you use it, and how long ago was your last shot?
> 
> No on the proviron.


Didnt take much deca, 100 mg a week for 12 weeks, last shot was in April this year. Since then I've been a wreck. What do you say about LUVERIS fro increasing LH. Is it advisable as my test results showed progress when i took HCG before but LH and FSH levels didn't move much at all.


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

hackskii said:


> I doubt it would be of any help.
> 
> You see the testicles are working, just the pituitary is not sending the signal to the leydig cells.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll see how my blood shows up in two weeks then get back to you. I believe I just need to kick start my LH/FSH levels somehow as test levels showed improvement previously. I am getting morning erections but there's no damn feeling or sexual urge what so ever.

Many thanks.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> Didnt take much deca, 100 mg a week for 12 weeks, last shot was in April this year. Since then I've been a wreck. What do you say about LUVERIS fro increasing LH. Is it advisable as my test results showed progress when i took HCG before but LH and FSH levels didn't move much at all.





Cameron88 said:


> Okay, I'll see how my blood shows up in two weeks then get back to you. I believe I just need to kick start my LH/FSH levels somehow as test levels showed improvement previously. I am getting morning erections but there's no damn feeling or sexual urge what so ever.
> 
> Many thanks.


Clomid will do just what you are asking.


----------



## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

Oh my word I've just noticed how many posts you've made hacks!


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Hello hackskii, been on POWER PCT for a week now and feel like crap, not seeing any sign of improvement, :-( :confused1:


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Hackskii I've read in your previous threads that your bro was shut down quite bad, is he back to normal now? if so what approach did he take, I believe I'm in the same boat as him, Viagra doing nothing for me.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cameron88 said:


> Hackskii I've read in your previous threads that your bro was shut down quite bad, is he back to normal now? if so what approach did he take, I believe I'm in the same boat as him, Viagra doing nothing for me.


He is fine now, and doing well.

Well, he just went cold turkey and took a year.

Now if you want to tell me your story, I think we can come to a place where you will get fixed up fast so you can use your willy besides just going to the bathroom.

Tell me how long, what you used, how much, and when was your last shot?


----------



## Cameron88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Ok here it goes, I took deca, winny, and clen for 16 weeks, was involved in a car crash so was unable to clean up straight away, that was in April 2013, since then libido has totally gone. I got my blood results the other day my test levels have climbed up again to 23 but Estrodiol levels have gone up to 220, average is between 50-100, LH and FSH have gona but not drastically, still under 1,


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

So, your FSH and LH are at 1 and your testosterone levels are 23 with upper end of reference range of 29.

Well, test is in range, estrogen is out of range, and one could use very low dose AI to get you in range, but that will be guess work.

If you have any adex, you could drop .5mg every 5 days to see what that does, if your erections move up then it is estrogen.

there are other herbs that work well for libido, and not hormones all have to do with erection issues, brain chemicals do as well, like dopamine.

mucuna pruriens is a herb that may help you here, and I am sure estrogen probably is playing some part in all this.


----------



## zeevolution (Aug 24, 2013)

hey guys, after this PCT what bloodwork do I need to get done? can you be specific? I'll be going into Essential Blood Screen from Medichecks. thx


----------



## dmore (Apr 22, 2014)

hackskii , thanks for this.

So much help and great information!

I really need your opinion on this protocol I've been assigned by Scally":

hCG challenge 2,000 IU Q3D (10 shots total)

HMG 75 IU Q3D (10 shots total)

Obtain TotalT after 5-6 injections.

NO SERM at this time.

Start Vit D3 10,000 IU QD

Well I've spent almost all of 2013 cycling and bridging, no PCT.

Then on October I began PowerPCT protocol even extended it up a bit.

Got labs on January 2014, test was mid normal.

From then on was just downhill, by BF went up, despite following strict diet and kept intense training.

January Labs (post PCT):

SDHEA: 245 µg/dL

ESTRADIOL: 14 pg/mL

FREE T: 163 pg/mL

LH: 1.88 mUI/mL

FSH: 1.05 mUI/mL

Decided to do more complete labs in April, results as follows:

SHBG 14.6nmol/L

SDHEA 210 µg/dL

PROLACTIN: 7.91 ng/mL

ESTRADIOL: 14 pg/mL

TOTAL T: 230 ng/dL

FREE T: 65 pg/mL

LH: 1.17 mUI/mL

FSH: 0.88 mUI/mL

25HD: 31.2 ng/mL

-

I've never heard of HCG only protocol. Why do you think he kept the SERMs out at this time?

THanks in advance for your time!


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I asked him about this and this is what I said.

I asked him why clomid was in the mix at 100mg for a month when using hCG clomid does nothing for LH.

It will move FSH, but not LH on hCG.

Yes, no sense running the clomid with the hCG other than moving FSH which is not really the issue here.

You will need nolva at 20mg ED while on hCG.

Then last jab of hCG you can start the clomid at 100mg or 3 days after last jab then run the clomid for 2 weeks at 100mg or 3 weeks, then 50mg for a couple of weeks.

I think he added in the vitamin D after I keep telling his guys on his facebook page how important it is for hCG to work well, and its effects on testosterone, not it seems he adds that (first I have heard of this).

I did challenge him on the clomid during hCG, he never responded other than patient compliance.

But, at 230 your nuts do have some stimulation going on, and clomid alone will move your LH pretty high.

Clomid at 100mg per day after 5 to 7 days doubles LH output, and increases FSH by up to 50%.

You wont need a ton of hCG either, I probably would just run the clomid, and probably nolva as well.


----------



## dmore (Apr 22, 2014)

hackskii said:


> I asked him about this and this is what I said.
> 
> I asked him why clomid was in the mix at 100mg for a month when using hCG clomid does nothing for LH.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your input.

so just to clarify, no Clomid ok for now, but I should add Nolva right away?

i am on my third jab of HCG only, 2.000iu per shot.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dmore said:


> Thank you so much for your input.
> 
> so just to clarify, no Clomid ok for now, but I should add Nolva right away?
> 
> i am on my third jab of HCG only, 2.000iu per shot.


Correct, nolva now to protect against estrogenic sides, then add the clomid after you are done with the hCG.


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

@hackskii. Hey I'm back, have gone through a lot but not gotten results. I have some recent bloodwork here. My endo isn't much help. Wondering if these numbers indicate possibility of pct.

Igf 167 (52-328) z score 0.4 (-2 - 2)

Fsh 2.1 (1.6-8)

Lh 2.7 (1.5-9.3)

Prolactin 2.6 (2-18)

Testosterone 165 (241-827)

Dheas 384 (45-345)

Cortisol am 11.6 (4-22)

Shgb 19 (10-50)

I have other bloodwork too, just not in front of me right this sec. Tsh is 2.4 roughly and ft3 & ft4 were within range. One endo says fine, other says early hypothyroid.

Current remaining symptoms since September (even during recent trial run of trt in range)

No appetite at all but can eat

Sweating profusely on my back in temps over 70, or with little exertion like walking or eating warm soup etc...never had these before

No libido or morning erections. Can get it up but want to cum way too soon, never like that before

Swollen scalloped tongue with teeth marks on the side. (Can be a hypo symptom)

Can sleep but usually wake up after four hours or so and have hard time getting back to sleep

No energy and fatigued

Other issues I had before have resolved but I can't shake these. I had MRI of head, pituitary had under cm spot on one of the angles...none of the other images show anything. Radiologist say its clear. Had ct from eyes down to groin. Nothing turned up but under cm cyst on left kidney. Typical blood tests show normal liver/biliary function and normal kidneys (no adrenal tumors)no stds no blood signs of cancer or advanced disease, hba1c said no diabetes, Had colonoscopy and gastropy. All normal but h. Pylori causing gastritis. H. Pylori gone now but gastritis still going away. Emergency open appendectomy that ruptured month ago. Healing fine. Blood was a tiny bit thick over range but doc said was from the trt run. Apparently is normal again. Waiting for hospital to give my doc the paperwork. Estrogen normal.

Wierd thing is for two weeks while taking antibiotics for h. Pylori, I felt good, but symptoms returned on last day. Sigh

So basically my test is low (prob little lower than normal one month off 8 week trt due to appendectomy)

Dheas is a bit high despite normal cortisol (adrenals compensating for low t?)

Lh and fsh in range but low end

Tsh within range but maybe subclinical (one blood test in the middle of 4 showed tsh 7 with normal ft3/4 but endo said it was a fluke or bad lab hmm)

And you know my symptoms.

I thought it was thyroid but my main endo says no, thought pituitary adenoma but radiologist says no, ultrasound of testicles fine, thought maybe malignancy but scopes scans and blood doesn't show it. My girlfriend feels after all this testing it's gotta be hormonal/chemical. Trial 8 week trt run brought me into middle of range icluding free test but didn't stop my symptoms.

Now that you see my more detailed bloodwork (and I can provide more), do you think I am shut down because lh fsh is low and not demanding test production (although I was on 2 month trt and stopped month ago before the lh fsh test I showed you)' or are my balls just needing a kickstart. I guess this is a primary secondary question.

Could I benefit from a scally pct from what you see in my numbers, or is trt my only option? Maybe you see something in my numbers. Prolactin is a bit low but in range. Would rather do pct than trt, but whatever works ill do. Just dont know why 8 weeks on trt and test levels in range didnt help anything. is that not long enough to feel good?

I did that deca test no pct cycle five years back, crashed hard immediately after but I think only partly recovered since. Everything was fine before that cycle ended with no pct. only cycle I ever did. Was limp for month after...but came back to I'd say 60% normal and thought over time 100, but no such luck...only getting worse since that original situation in sept where I did a workout, was weak, sweating sick etc like I think I explained in the first post or so.

I'm at wits end trying to feel good again and you are the most knowledgable person I've seen online @hackskii . Thanks for taking time to read this. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Do you know what your estradiol is?

Well, all in range but your T value, but with it that low, I would suspect to see both LH, and FSH higher to accommodate that.

Other than that it would appear to be primary, but again I would think the gonadotropins would be higher, so perhaps estrogen is high?

On the thyroid thing, when guys are hypothyroid they are always cold, yet you get hot easy, so perhaps it is not thyroid or you would be cold.

You can take your temp every morning for 3 days using a thermometer under your arm and take an average.

Read up on that here, fantastic concept and probably as accurate as anything there is: http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/shames-basaltemp.htm

This will allow you to either remove this from the equation or dig deeper into it.

You got any numbers on your estrogen?


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

I will get you the estradiol ASAP. It was in range though. However I think it was measured when I was on trt if that makes a difference.

Could my fsh lh be low because the blood was taken a month after coming off trt injections cold turkey? Does trt lower lh fsh for awhile?

About the thyroid, I read hyper causes heat sensitivity and hypo cold, but read quite a few hypos that were sweating or sensitive to hot and cold. Wierd. Also I don't really feel hot, I just start sweating profusely on my back in heat or with exertion, and I never have a fever with it.

I know low t can make you sweat , but when I was in the 400s in range on trt, I was no different.

I don't know what to make of the high DHEAs either.


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

@hackskii. Here are the numbers

Estradiol 87 p/mol (73-275)

Free test during trt was 45.4 p/mol (25-80)

Only other weird thing is my blood barely above range even before trt (even though did heart ultrasound, stress test and holster monitor for three days)

Hemoglobin 166 g/l (135-165)

Hematocrit .500 l/l (.405-.495)

MCV 94.2 fl (80-94)


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Some men sweat when low blood sugar as well.

Estrogen on TRT wont be of value.

You may just be low from being on TRT as well, but you could use low dose to see if it influences your nuts.


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

I may be low on which level @hackskii test? and could use a dose of??? You mean try the scully pct or back to trt? I was low on test before trt but not as low as now.

The test levels and lh and fsh are one month off trt, only estradiol is a level while I was on trt.

My hba1c blood test was 0.056. Anything <0.060 is fine. I think that's glucose. My sweating seems related to slight exertion or moderate heat. Can't figure this out and my endo sucks


----------



## motownrecovery (Oct 11, 2013)

@hackskii I was reading here

http://www.mombu.com/medicine/medicine/t-a-primer-on-hcg-and-dr-shippens-hcg-protocol-2-of-8-hypothalamus-depression-nail-testicular-down-2307457.html

That hcg can be alternative to trt, and might fix testicles over time. Thoughts? Test injections haven't cured me of symptoms, just level numbers.

I always thought my balls never came quite back to size after deca test cycle with no pct. wondering if hcg, or scally protocol is worth a shot ...pun intended


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

How did you feel on TRT?

How do you feel now?


----------



## micky12 (Oct 16, 2013)

@hackskii reading through the thread and didn't read any body asking is the power PCT dosage still needed if been using 750iu every 5 day's through out your cycle

this is my cycle and PCT, should i change my PCT to the power PCT ?

500mg sust weeks 1-12

350mg deca weeks 1-10

50mg dbol a day weeks 1-6

Hcg 1000iu weekly, weeks 2-16

Adex 0.5mg eod (adjust accordingly) weeks 1-16

Then start pct at week 16 if you're doing one

Nolva 20/20/20/20

Clomid 100/50/50/50

Vitamin D is a good addition at 5000iu a day also


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

micky12 said:


> @hackskii reading through the thread and didn't read any body asking is the power PCT dosage still needed if been using 750iu every 5 day's through out your cycle
> 
> this is my cycle and PCT, should i change my PCT to the power PCT ?
> 
> ...


That is fine, but I would run the clomid a bit more like 2 weeks at 100mg then drop to 50 for a few weeks.

No need to run hCG if one has maintained testicular function during.


----------



## micky12 (Oct 16, 2013)

hackskii said:


> That is fine, but I would run the clomid a bit more like 2 weeks at 100mg then drop to 50 for a few weeks.
> 
> No need to run hCG if one has maintained testicular function during.


thank you very much for the helpful reply  ok will adjust the to clomid 100/100/50/50/50 ? also your saying not to use the hcg during my PCT just stop it at week 16 ?

thank's again for the reply


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yes, that is what I am saying.


----------



## micky12 (Oct 16, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Yes, that is what I am saying.


thank's again just making sure


----------

