# Nattys



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty i.e. secretly jabbing or ingesting PEDS. e.g. Hodge Flids, Kali, Jeff Seid etc&#8230;..

To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?

Mike O'Hearn and other "internet celebrities" are known fake nattys. This thread is for the UKM natty population to disprove my well-known and well-founded theories above.

:thumbup1:


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty i.e. secretly jabbing or ingesting PEDS. e.g. Hodge Flids, Kali, Jeff Seid etc&#8230;..
> 
> To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?
> 
> ...


 Run out of wanking material?


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## steelicarus (Jul 24, 2011)

i might be totally naive but I've always thought jeff nippard was a natty?


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Mike Thurston - supposedly Natty

Training for 10 years, in this video he gets tested for BF, and some 'professional' in that field tells him his physique is at the top ond of what is achievable naturally.

Whilst I do actually like his content, I can't say I believe his alleged Natty status.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Best lifts natty

Bench - 185kg - on gear 200kg

Deadlift - 275kg - on gear 300kg

Squat - 225kg - never got to test it on gear because of injury.

Also competed 3 times only novice comps before i used and finished.

5th out of 12

1st out of 45

5th out of 14

As for physique iv always been a fatty lol its only recently that iv started to concentrate on weight loss.


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## toecutter (Dec 28, 2014)

You can certainly build a good physique (albeit subjective) and level of strength naturally. Look at some bodybuilders and strongmen that predate the use of steroids. If someone like Eugen Sandow was around today, everyone would call him a fake natty.

Unfortunately we live in an age where what is naturally achievable has not necessarily been naturally achieved.

As a rule of thumb, if someone's income or opportunities depend on their physique looking a certain way, it would be naive to assume they're 100% natural. Sad, but it is what it is.


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

Average person thinks 15 inch arms is jacked, you will only appear stringy/noodley to a niche demographic of gym lifters. 15.5-16inch arms around the 12%bf mark is achievable by the vast majority of men (of say 5'9-6ft height) which anyone will find respectable. Thus, can acquire a decent physique as a natural over the course of 2-4 years. I will post post physique pics when I get home. My lifts around the 181lb mark we're 260kg deadlift, 140kg bench and 190kg squat and I had plenty room to grow. The spectrum for strength is a lot bigger than for muscle mass, but even regarding muscle mass you can still look good as a natty, you just can't be big and lean at the same time (though big is subjective)


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Some of you guys will have seen these pics before as they are a year or so old...

100% natural lifter starting from 17st 9 to an average weight of 16st - 16st -7lbs now.

I have posted 100 kg 25 reps in one set...

View attachment Bicep_warm_up.mp4


View attachment Natty_stev'o_.mp4


Some pics of my transformation.

































Currently 16st 3lbs today and looking bigger/leaner than this. taken some time ago.

I have no more up to date pics or vids.

Nothing special but 100% natural 16st + Big, strong and look like I lift with shirt on or off at 48 years old. As banzi once said I look much better in real life. The pics don't do me justice.

Haters gunna hate

View attachment giphy.mp4 - Shortcut.lnk


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## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

A few thoughts....

Natty's possibly have superior cardio-vascular health and better mental health? Better longevity? Maybe they have greater pride in their achievements knowing they were attained through pure hard work? Must be a far better feeling than accepting a trophy knowing that if it hadn't been for syringe after syringe of gunk, there was no way you'd be holding it right now?

Personally, I wouldn't be so quick to put users on a pedestal even though I have used and may well use again.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

A 250kg Squat and Deadlift are well within the capabilities of many natty's.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

On or off you have to train just as hard. My schedule doesn't change much either way. in fact work load probably goes up as recovery times improve. It just means you get more output for input when "on" . Each to their own. I train for my personal satisfaction not for others.

Cardio is practically unaffected by a standard cycle, only big dosage has a negative effects.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Stephen9069 said:


> Best lifts natty
> 
> Bench - 185kg - on gear 200kg
> 
> ...


 Where those lifts in PL comp mate?

Nice results from SM.

What weight were you BTW?


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Huntingground said:


> As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty i.e. secretly jabbing or ingesting PEDS. e.g. Hodge Flids, Kali, Jeff Seid etc&#8230;..
> 
> To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?
> 
> ...


 Genetics is everything. Iv heard people openly talk about steroids in the gym and the weak as a kitten doing there one rep maxes. Infact I watched a video on YouTube of a youtuber that has taken steroids for years doing 180kg squats for 3 reps and doing all resting s**t on at the top before each rep. Where's someone like me who is natural can do 180kg squats for a warm up no resting at the top usually 10 to 12 reps.its a very bold statement your saying but yeah all the records will be people who are using gear. Physique wise Iv always found very difficult as a natty it's that getting to a somewhat even decent bodyfat whiles still carrying muscle. I can gain muscle just I'll never get it with a six pack


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Some of you guys will have seen these pics before as they are a year or so old...
> 
> 100% natural lifter starting from 17st 9 to an average weight of 16st - 16st -7lbs now.
> 
> ...


 Have you done any PL or SM comps at all? What are your SQ/BP/DL PBs? From those pics, I'm guessing you're not a Bber?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Jack of blades said:


> Genetics is everything. Iv heard people openly talk about steroids in the gym and the weak as a kitten doing there one rep maxes. Infact I watched a video on YouTube of a youtuber that has taken steroids for years doing 180kg squats for 3 reps and doing all resting s**t on at the top before each rep. Where's someone like me who is natural can do 180kg squats for a warm up no resting at the top usually 10 to 12 reps.its a very bold statement your saying but yeah all the records will be people who are using gear. Physique wise Iv always found very difficult as a natty it's that getting to a somewhat even decent bodyfat whiles still carrying muscle. I can gain muscle just I'll never get it with a six pack


 Sounds like you have good genetics mate. What are your comp results? Or even gym PBs? SQ/BP/DL?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Mingster said:


> A 250kg Squat and Deadlift are well within the capabilities of many natty's.


 Not see any TBH. Can anyone in here do it?


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> Mike Thurston - supposedly Natty
> 
> Training for 10 years, in this video he gets tested for BF, and some 'professional' in that field tells him his physique is at the top ond of what is achievable naturally.
> 
> ...


 This is what I'm talking about as a natural it's fu**ing impossible to look like this


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Huntingground said:


> Not see any TBH. Can anyone in here do it?


 Good question.

I've done it myself and, once I get my knee stitched up, I'm quietly confident I'll do it again. One more time before I semi-retire lol.


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Huntingground said:


> Not see any TBH. Can anyone in here do it?


 Mines 240 for both of them. I don't think I'll ever get them up more than that. Maybe in years time with a miracle but Iv already training for almost 12 years now so don't think it's going to happen


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Jack of blades said:


> Genetics is everything. Iv heard people openly talk about steroids in the gym and the weak as a kitten doing there one rep maxes. Infact I watched a video on YouTube of a youtuber that has taken steroids for years doing 180kg squats for 3 reps and doing all resting s**t on at the top before each rep. Where's someone like me who is natural can do 180kg squats for a warm up no resting at the top usually 10 to 12 reps.its a very bold statement your saying but yeah all the records will be people who are using gear. Physique wise Iv always found very difficult as a natty it's that getting to a somewhat even decent bodyfat whiles still carrying muscle. I can gain muscle just I'll never get it with a six pack


 Yeah true but lifts aren't everything. I'm not very strong at all but physique is better than most.

Some of us don't train for strength, like you said you'll never really look lean and stuff but have good lifts.

Comes down to personal goals. Example cutting without gear and wanting a good physique just doesn't happen, will lose mass and will look flat asf.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

AestheticManlet said:


> Yeah true but lifts aren't everything.


 Yes they are


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Jack of blades said:


> Mines 240 for both of them. I don't think I'll ever get them up more than that. Maybe in years time with a miracle but Iv already doing it for almost 12 years now so don't think it's going to happen


 Never say never :thumb


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

AestheticManlet said:


> Yeah true but lifts aren't everything. I'm not very strong at all but physique is better than most.
> 
> Some of us don't train for strength, like you said you'll never really look lean and stuff but have good lifts.
> 
> Comes down to personal goals. Example cutting without gear and wanting a good physique just doesn't happen, will lose mass and will look flat asf.


 Lifts are everything to me and aesthetics mean nothing but I included both in the OP.

You look pretty decent TBF, bet you aren't natty :whistling:


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Some of you guys will have seen these pics before as they are a year or so old...
> 
> 100% natural lifter starting from 17st 9 to an average weight of 16st - 16st -7lbs now.
> 
> ...


 You look great mate


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Yes they are


 Don't worry we both know everyone secretly wants to have good lifts lol


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Mingster said:


> Yes they are


 Haha well admittedly I'd love to have big lifts. I've dabbled with training for strength and I made progress but nothing special and I ended up with a few injuries.

Suppose 145kg Bench x5 was respectable but I'm upper dominant also. As for squats pushing past 185kg was hard and deads 200kg max. I seemed to hit a plateau and I cut harsh each year, id probably be saying bye to the pbs for a good long time. :thumbup1:

I'm lucky to have a decent frame for aesthetics though, everything seems to balance out in porportion more or less, so that's my focus.



Huntingground said:


> Lifts are everything to me and aesthetics mean nothing but I included both in the OP.
> 
> You look pretty decent TBF, bet you aren't natty :whistling:


 I'm natty :lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

AestheticManlet said:


> Haha well admittedly I'd love to have big lifts. I've dabbled with training for strength and I made progress but nothing special and I ended up with a few injuries.
> 
> Suppose 145kg Bench x5 was respectable but I'm upper dominant also. As for squats pushing past 185kg was hard and deads 200kg max. I seemed to hit a plateau and I cut harsh each year, id probably be saying bye to the pbs for a good long time. :thumbup1:
> 
> ...


 Need to forget about that waistline and get your pbs up bro!!


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/154807-ukms-natty-physiques/?page=15&tab=comments&do=embed&comment=3591902&embedComment=3591902&embedDo=findComment#comment-3591902


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Matt6210 said:


> Need to forget about that waistline and get your pbs up bro!!


 Most regular users on here know I'm too vain for that haha :thumbup1:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Strange how much different steroids users goals can be!!! I've always took juice to be big and strong not cared about waistline I'm 34 inch waist and happy at that, what your waist mate?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

AestheticManlet said:


> Haha well admittedly I'd love to have big lifts. I've dabbled with training for strength and I made progress but nothing special and I ended up with a few injuries.
> 
> Suppose 145kg Bench x5 was respectable but I'm upper dominant also. As for squats pushing past 185kg was hard and deads 200kg max. I seemed to hit a plateau and I cut harsh each year, id probably be saying bye to the pbs for a good long time. :thumbup1:
> 
> ...


 How tall?

What weight?

Pics of back and legs?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Dark sim said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/154807-ukms-natty-physiques/?page=15&tab=comments&do=embed&comment=3591902&embedComment=3591902&embedDo=findComment#comment-3591902


 Don't think most of these boys are still about. Probably all joined dark side


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Matt6210 said:


> Strange how much different steroids users goals can be!!! I've always took juice to be big and strong not cared about waistline I'm 34 inch waist and happy at that, what your waist mate?


 Well bulking atm unsure maybe 30. I start my cut in 4 weeks and be similar to current avi but more mass this time around.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> How tall?
> 
> What weight?
> 
> Pics of back and legs?


 I'm not natty mate I have a journal up.

Avi pic was 5 ft 7 and 12 stone 10 - was last July after cut for holiday.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Natural bodybuilding is like fishing without a hook, I mean you can do it but you ain't gonna catch f**k all!


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Matt6210 said:


> Natural bodybuilding is like fishing without a hook, I mean you can do it but you ain't gonna catch f**k all!


 Pics? Lifts? Let's see what you've caught.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

@Huntingground This is the strongest natural on the net. No one truly natural will come close imo.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Mingster said:


> Pics? Lifts? Let's see what you've caught.


 Best bench 180, best dead 260, shoulder press 100.

View attachment 151549


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

Mingster said:


> A 250kg Squat and Deadlift are well within the capabilities of many natty's.


 Depends on bodyweight aswell, most lifters won't reach over 200lbs and a 250kg squat at that weight is very impressive. 220kg maybe but 250kg is a bit much to say it's achievable by "many"


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

SwoleTip said:


> Depends on bodyweight aswell, most lifters won't reach over 200lbs and a 250kg squat at that weight is very impressive. 220kg maybe but 250kg is a bit much to say it's achievable by "many"


 Anyone can increase their bodyweight.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Matt6210 said:


> Best bench 180, best dead 260, shoulder press 100.
> 
> View attachment 151549


 Good stuff :thumbup1: . No Squat? Comp or gym?


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Anyone can increase their bodyweight.


 But who wants to be some bloatlord? Not many I'll bet.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Pancake' said:


> @Huntingground This is the strongest natural on the net. No one truly natural will come close imo.


 Do you really think he is natty mate? I've never heard of him to be fair.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

SwoleTip said:


> But who wants to be some bloatlord? Not many I'll bet.


 I'm not a 'bloatlord' lol. It's hardly my fault that people aren't dedicated enough and patient enough to add lean mass and strength.

If you want to get stronger you have to do it intelligently. If you don't want to get stronger you'll end up like Banzi.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Mingster said:


> Good stuff :thumbup1: . No Squat? Comp or gym?


 Avoid squats like the plague mate my best squat probably like 140kg. Just got on again this week gonna focus more on legs and train them twice a week. Never done any type of competeing.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Matt6210 said:


> Avoid squats like the plague mate my best squat probably like 140kg. Just got on again this week gonna focus more on legs and train them twice a week. Never done any type of competeing.


 Enter a comp mate, it will spur you on !!


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> Do you really think he is natty mate? I've never heard of him to be fair.


 Not many have, he's not so big a channel.

He's a pro wrestler now in WWE, I've never seen anyone, especially natural, train as intense or as strong.

I'm very confident he's drug free. He's just a genetic freak. You can tell even,

look how flat his physique is, he's big on health side things too,

and he'd jeopardise his career.

Check out his channel.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

SwoleTip said:


> But who wants to be some bloatlord? Not many I'll bet.


 Bloatlord :lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Huntingground said:


> Do you really think he is natty mate? I've never heard of him to be fair.


 Tell he's natural he's got no mass or depth to him.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> Have you done any PL or SM comps at all? What are your SQ/BP/DL PBs? From those pics, I'm guessing you're not a Bber?


 Nah don't do any comps at all mate, I just love training. I don't do 1RM either I don't see the point in terms of the training benefits.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Nah don't do any comps at all mate, I just love training. I don't do 1RM either I don't see the point in terms of the training benefits.


 I've seen the pics before, did you have a different name?

Keep enjoying the training!!


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Nah don't do any comps at all mate, I just love training. I don't do 1RM either I don't see the point in terms of the training benefits.


 You train like I do don't you? 8-12 rep range typically?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> You train like I do don't you? 8-12 rep range typically?


 No.... You train like me 

Generally in the 8 - 10 rep range for 3 sets this sometimes can go as low as 6 reps on the last set after a weight increase and sometimes as high as 12 reps. but my ball park is 8 - 10 reps for maximum results. :thumbup1:


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

The-Real-Deal said:


> No.... You train like me
> 
> Generally in the 8 - 10 rep range for 3 sets this sometimes can go as low as 6 reps on the last set after a weight increase and sometimes as high as 12 reps. but my ball park is 8 - 10 reps for maximum results. :thumbup1:


 Haha

Yeah same 3 sets 8-12. The main big 3 lifts are always 3x8 when I hit 3x8 I'll add weight.

Some secondary compounds in routine are 3x10 and isolations 3x10-12.


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

Jack of blades said:


> This is what I'm talking about as a natural it's fu**ing impossible to look like this


 i believe he's natty if you look at photos of him when he was 16-18 he was jacked, its all genetics, look at kai green/lee priest when they were 16, think of big rammy when he was 15-16 not everyone who has better genetics than 99% of people are on gear


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

@The-Real-Deal

Hmmmmm


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Where are all f the rest of the natty's pic's .... come on get them posted.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> @The-Real-Deal
> 
> Hmmmmm


 What?


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> Where those lifts in PL comp mate?
> 
> Nice results from SM.
> 
> What weight were you BTW?


 No mate they were gym lifts iv never competed in power lifting but they are on youtube.

The strongman comps were also drug free i never made it to comps after due to injuries.

I think at the time i was about 135kg-140kg at 6ft4.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

@SwoleTip

@Mingster

@Heavyassweights

@Huntingground

@anna1

state if natty or not! It don't really matter which you are ....Post up ya pic's guys n gals.. :thumbup1:


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty i.e. secretly jabbing or ingesting PEDS. e.g. Hodge Flids, Kali, Jeff Seid etc&#8230;..
> 
> To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?
> 
> ...


 If you're on steroids and compare your physique and strength to nattys instead of other steroid users, you're probably an insecure *** trying to feel better about yourself. I'm not in competition with anyone in the gym. I'm not a jealous school girl. I don't care what you look like or what you lift.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> Don't think most of these boys are still about. Probably all joined dark side


 I joined DS soon after posting


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I joined DS soon after posting


 You too dark sim, show us what you have and can be achieved while using. I know you compete and I wish you the best of luck in your next contest.


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Where are all f the rest of the natty's pic's .... come on get them posted.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Jack of blades said:


> View attachment 151567


 If natty... Looking good mate. :thumbup1:

How tall / heavy are you?


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> If natty... Looking good mate. :thumbup1:


 +1


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

The-Real-Deal said:


> You too dark sim, show us what you have and can be achieved while using. I know you compete and I wish you the best of luck in your next contest.


 I posted a link to an old natty thread -

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/154807-ukms-natty-physiques/?page=15&tab=comments&do=embed&comment=3591902&embedComment=3591902&embedDo=findComment#comment-3591902


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## Bomber1966 (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm weak af...

my son, who gets his strength genetics from his Mum is very strong and completely natty.. bench 160,D/L 285, Squat 210...

hes never competed, just did it in the forces.... his goal is to break the Navy (he's a Marine) DL record of 300kg.

hes also really bloody fit and is a good runner as well....pisses me right off that I copped total wimp genes


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

The-Real-Deal said:


> @SwoleTip
> 
> @Mingster
> 
> ...


 I'm as natty as you are Stevo.

My pics and video's are all over the forum. I haven't deleted them like yourself. My avi is also of myself, unlike yours. My user name hasn't changed either.


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

@Mingster just ejaculated all over @The-Real-Deal

its getting messy

Be nice guys


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Ray Williams squats 1052lbs in drug tested competitions. No one on here on steroids or not comes close to that. Steroid users who think they're better than natties can't hold a candle to his strength. Better to be quiet about how much you lift. You might be strong on a forum of bodybuilders, but against the strongest natural powerlifters, your lifts aren't up to their level.


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> If natty... Looking good mate. :thumbup1:
> 
> How tall / heavy are you?


 Thanks. 6 foot 16 and half stone about. Don't know in pounds


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> Haha
> 
> Yeah same 3 sets 8-12. The main big 3 lifts are always 3x8 when I hit 3x8 I'll add weight.
> 
> Some secondary compounds in routine are 3x10 and isolations 3x10-12.


 What? You do 3 sets of 8 reps on squats? I can only just about bring myself to do triples and 4's lol. I just want to go as heavy as possible then go to the next exercise. Not that I'm strong on squats yet lol. I just started this year,


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

EpicSquats said:


> What? You do 3 sets of 8 reps on squats? I can only just about bring myself to do triples and 4's lol. I just want to go as heavy as possible then go to the next exercise. Not that I'm strong on squats yet lol. I just started this year,


 Squats deads Bench ohp :thumbup1:


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## anna1 (Mar 22, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> @SwoleTip
> 
> @Mingster
> 
> ...


 Please dont be jelly I lift more than you do @Heavyassweights

ta


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

anna1 said:


> Please dont be jelly I lift more than you do @Heavyassweights
> 
> ta
> 
> View attachment 151571


 Whos that in the picture bruv?


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## Henda83 (Mar 3, 2018)

anna1 said:


> Please dont be jelly I lift more than you do @Heavyassweights
> 
> ta
> 
> View attachment 151571


 If it's a man who takes all the photos of you training is he allowed to masturbate as he does so or would this distract you from your workout?


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## anna1 (Mar 22, 2014)

Henda83 said:


> If it's a man who takes all the photos of you training is he allowed to masturbate as he does so or would this distract you from your workout?


 No , he's not . Cant have shakey pics :lol:


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> @SwoleTip
> 
> @Mingster
> 
> ...


 All my gym/comp lifts and some dodgy physique pics (I do not train for aesthetics though so beware  ) in OP of my log on here, HG2018.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> If you're on steroids and compare your physique and strength to nattys instead of other steroid users, you're probably an insecure *** trying to feel better about yourself. I'm not in competition with anyone in the gym. I'm not a jealous school girl. I don't care what you look like or what you lift.


 I enter competitions to compete against other PL lifters so of course I am in competition with them. I compete in untested fed so up to them if they take gear or not.

You are almost certainly a Pencil Neck though with that outlook :thumb


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Jack of blades said:


> Genetics is everything. Iv heard people openly talk about steroids in the gym and the weak as a kitten doing there one rep maxes. Infact I watched a video on YouTube of a youtuber that has taken steroids for years doing 180kg squats for 3 reps and doing all resting s**t on at the top before each rep. Where's someone like me who is natural can do 180kg squats for a warm up no resting at the top usually 10 to 12 reps.its a very bold statement your saying but yeah all the records will be people who are using gear. Physique wise Iv always found very difficult as a natty it's that getting to a somewhat even decent bodyfat whiles still carrying muscle. I can gain muscle just I'll never get it with a six pack


 It's less about genetics and more about people not knowing WTF they're doing, tbh. If you have two people of a similar level of muscularity and efficiency of diet and training, and one starts taking steroids, in a year the steroid user will be markedly bigger and stronger than the non-user. However, a natty that trains and eats more efficiently than a steroid user may progress at a similar or even better rate (though the ceiling for how big and strong a natty can get is a lot lower than that of a steroid user, of course).


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> I enter competitions to compete against other PL lifters so of course I am in competition with them. I compete in untested fed so up to them if they take gear or not.
> 
> You are almost certainly a Pencil Neck though with that outlook :thumb


 As long as you understand you're lifts are much weaker than the top tested powerlifters that's the main thing. Good lad.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

EpicSquats said:


> As long as you understand you're lifts are much weaker than the top tested powerlifters that's the main thing. Good lad.


 You also have to take into account the category system. You'll only be competing against others of a similar age and weight.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Mingster said:


> You also have to take into account the category system. You'll only be competing against others of a similar age and weight.


 True.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> As long as you understand you're lifts are much weaker than the top tested powerlifters that's the main thing. Good lad.


 Let's see how I get on this year. In the GPC qualifiers I totalled 750 in u125 Raw M1 category which was enough to win the Brits and Europes in my category (I didn't compete in either due to injury though). I will this year hopefully. I am also competing in BPU qualifiers on March 18th.

Do you compete in any of the disciplines?


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> Let's see how I get on this year. In the GPC qualifiers I totalled 750 in u125 Raw M1 category which was enough to win the Brits and Europes in my category (I didn't compete in either due to injury though). I will this year hopefully. I am also competing in BPU qualifiers on March 18th.
> 
> Do you compete in any of the disciplines?


 I don't care how much you lift. All I know is, you think you're superior because you take steroids and you're clearly not.


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

nWo said:


> It's less about genetics and more about people not knowing WTF they're doing, tbh. If you have two people of a similar level of muscularity and efficiency of diet and training, and one starts taking steroids, in a year the steroid user will be markedly bigger and stronger than the non-user. However, a natty that trains and eats more efficiently than a steroid user may progress at a similar or even better rate (though the ceiling for how big and strong a natty can get is a lot lower than that of a steroid user, of course).


 Knowledge succeeds everything except genetics. There are a lot of variables ie

natural lifter-high level of training knowledge-average genetics

Assisted lifter-low level of training knowledge-superior genetics

Assisted lifter-high level of training-poor genetics

Natural lifter-low level of training knowledge-superior genetics

Who would look the best when each individual has a different bone structure


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> I don't care how much you lift. All I know is, you think you're superior because you take steroids and you're clearly not.


 I compete in BPU on March 18th and there is ABPU (tested) fed competing on same day, I will compare my total to theirs (same cat etc) and report back :thumbup1:


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> I compete in BPU on March 18th and there is ABPU (tested) fed competing on same day, I will compare my total to theirs (same cat etc) and report back :thumbup1:


 Report to who? I don't give a fvck. The top tested squatters lift much more than you. Deal with it. Accept it. Grow up. Stop making childish threads saying other people are "inferior" just because you take steroids. Act your age bro.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

jake87 said:


> Knowledge succeeds everything except genetics. There are a lot of variables ie
> 
> natural lifter-high level of training knowledge-average genetics
> 
> ...


 I'm not saying variations in genetic potential exist of course, but they're highly overstated and mainly come into play when we consider things like insertions, proportions, muscle shape and so on. The stuff that makes the difference between being 10th and 1st at the Olympia. There are of course high responders who seem to gain muscle despite doing lots of things wrong, but I've never met anyone who's doing everything right but still hasn't progressed to a considerable degree, and I do genuinely believe that someone with supposedly poor genetics who trains efficiently, eats well, gets their rest and their sleep, will grow at a faster rate than someone with superior genetics who just goes to the gym and f**ks around.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> Report to who? I don't give a fvck. The top tested squatters lift much more than you. Deal with it. Accept it. Grow up. Stop making childish threads saying other people are "inferior" just because you take steroids. Act your age bro.


 http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/bpu-records/

BPU : 697.5KG total in u125 Raw M1.

http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/abpu-records/

ABPU : 622.5G total in u125 Raw M1.

What I stated in the OP was this "nattys are inferior....when it comes to physique or strength sports". Unfortunately for you, the above facts prove my assertions to be correct.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/bpu-records/
> 
> BPU : 697.5KG total in u125 Raw M1.
> 
> ...


 So what you're saying is, you yourself would be inferior if you didn't take steroids. So it's the steroids making you stronger. Do you want a medal for taking steroids? I really don't see the point of this thread. And since you want to turn it into some steroid user vs natty thing, the world strongest ever squat as I have already mentioned was done in a tested competition. A guy who wasn't on steroids squatted hundreds of pounds more than you.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

EpicSquats said:


> So what you're saying is, you yourself would be inferior if you didn't take steroids. So it's the steroids making you stronger. Do you want a medal for taking steroids? I really don't see the point of this thread. And since you want to turn it into some steroid user vs natty thing, the world strongest ever squat as I have already mentioned was done in a tested competition. A guy who wasn't on steroids squatted hundreds of pounds more than you.


 Ow stop being a little bitch and get on the juice already.


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

EpicSquats said:


> So what you're saying is, you yourself would be inferior if you didn't take steroids. So it's the steroids making you stronger. Do you want a medal for taking steroids? I really don't see the point of this thread. And since you want to turn it into some steroid user vs natty thing, the world strongest ever squat as I have already mentioned was done in a tested competition. A guy who wasn't on steroids squatted hundreds of pounds more than you.


 I don't want to be a downer but there's no such thing as a drug free competition. I really wish there was but there isn't. Some of the steroids are untraceable with in a few weeks after not using them.


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

anna1 said:


> Please dont be jelly I lift more than you do @Heavyassweights
> 
> ta
> 
> View attachment 151571


 Looks like a 25kg dumbbell?

chest looks 34 dd?

ass looks ready?


----------



## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/bpu-records/
> 
> BPU : 697.5KG total in u125 Raw M1.
> 
> ...


 What is the age limit for masters is it 40?


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Ow stop being a little bitch and get on the juice already.


 Stop being a bitch and relying on steroids to be strong. We can both play this game.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

EpicSquats said:


> Stop being a bitch and relying on steroids to be strong. We can both play this game.


 Yawn, look if your that scared of pinning try an oral only course first? Dbol or summit?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Stephen9069 said:


> What is the age limit for masters is it 40?


 Depends on fed but Masters(M1) is usually 40-50, M2 - 50-60, M3 - 60-70.

Juniors is up to 23. 23-40 is Seniors.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Mingster said:


> Depend on fed but Masters(M1) is usually 40-50, M2 - 50-60, M3 - 60-70.


 Are you not at your strongest around 40?


----------



## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Mingster said:


> DependS on fed but Masters(M1) is usually 40-50, M2 - 50-60, M3 - 60-70.


 And then theres weight limits within those categories ?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Matt6210 said:


> Are you not at your strongest around 40?


 Usually between 30 and 40, or so people say. I was certainly at my strongest in my mid 30's.


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Mingster said:


> DependS on fed but Masters(M1) is usually 40-50, M2 - 50-60, M3 - 60-70.


 Oh f**k I'm 10 years away from master's damn I feel old


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Usually between 30 and 40, or so people say. I was certainly at my strongest in my mid 30's.


 I would have thought it would be the opposite Iv recently hit 30 and wish I was in !y early 20s again it felt much better for training. I feel to tired in the gym these days


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Mingster said:


> Usually between 30 and 40, or so people say. I was certainly at my strongest in my mid 30's.


 How old you now bud? I thought little older was strongest for 1rm, mature muscle and all that


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Stephen9069 said:


> And then theres weight limits within those categories ?


 Yes mate. I'm an under 105kg M2 atm.

With the GBPF the weight categories for men are:

-53kg, -59kg, -66kg, -74kg, -83kg, -93kg, -105kg, -120kg, and +120kg.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Matt6210 said:


> How old you now bud? I thought little older was strongest for 1rm, mature muscle and all that


 I'm 56. 57 in August. Strength goes slowly, slower than many other things lol.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Yawn, look if your that scared of pinning try an oral only course first? Dbol or summit?


 Jog on lad, you'll miss your bus.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Natty and i hope not stringey.



















View attachment 151579


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Jordan08 said:


> Natty and i hope not stringey.
> 
> View attachment 151575
> View attachment 151583
> ...


 Looking good mate, top work

Height and weight pls


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Looking good mate, top work
> 
> Height and weight pls


 178cms at 90kgs. Body composition is not my priority right now. Focusing on big 3 mate atm.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Jordan08 said:


> 178cms at 90kgs. Body composition is not my priority right now. Focusing on big 3 mate atm.


 5' 8" and 14 stone.... Good work mate, looking in good shape... respect.


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Jordan08 said:


> Natty and i hope not stringey.
> 
> View attachment 151575
> View attachment 151583
> ...


 Looking good mate

still suspect though


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Jordan08 said:


> 178cms at 90kgs. Body composition is not my priority right now. Focusing on big 3 mate atm.


 Looking solid dude. Bf kept in check too :thumbup1:



Mingster said:


> Usually between 30 and 40, or so people say. I was certainly at my strongest in my mid 30's.


 Same, my best lifts are behind me. Joints have taken their toll now. I'm gone from lifting very heavy. Don't care anymore


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

JohhnyC said:


> Same, my best lifts are behind me. Joints have taken their toll now. I'm gone from lifting very heavy. Don't care anymore


 Oh, I'm still going. Joints are fine. As long as you stick to a sensible regime you can go on indefinitely.


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Mingster said:


> Oh, I'm still going. Joints are fine. As long as you stick to a sensible regime you can go on indefinitely.


 My family have a long history of arthritis so I wonder if that is the cause. And starting to set in. I never know if weight training for 20 years has accelerated it. I don't see much conclusive evidence either side of the debate .

One thing I am convinced by is stretching but it becomes dull.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

JohhnyC said:


> My family have a long history of arthritis so I wonder if that is the cause. And starting to set in. I never know if weight training for 20 years has accelerated it. I don't see much conclusive evidence either side of the debate .
> 
> One thing I am convinced by is stretching but it becomes dull.


 Yeah, I agree. I should stretch but I don't. My wife has arthritis and it has put paid to her gym going.

I just plan my programmes carefully. As @Fadi pointed out in a thread the other day, as a powerlifter you should never really fail a lift, so by avoiding those ego lifts you can progress steadily without major injury concerns. Having said that you have to accept you can't lift as much as you used to as you get older. Fortunately the same applies to the competition.


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Jordan08 said:


> Natty and i hope not stringey.


 Sure you spoke about juicing before a few times


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> So what you're saying is, you yourself would be inferior if you didn't take steroids. So it's the steroids making you stronger. Do you want a medal for taking steroids? I really don't see the point of this thread. And since you want to turn it into some steroid user vs natty thing, the world strongest ever squat as I have already mentioned was done in a tested competition. A guy who wasn't on steroids squatted hundreds of pounds more than you.


 What I'm saying is, is that what I stated in the OP is correct and has been proved correct in this thread.

No idea what else you are rambling on about.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

This has actually turned into a decent debate and well done to the nattys for not rising to the bait (apart from ShiteSquats that is :lol: :lol: ).


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Huntingground said:


> This has actually turned into a decent debate and well done to the nattys for not rising to the bait (apart from ShiteSquats that is :lol: :lol: ).


 He's just pissed off because he's scared of pinning!!


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

@EpicSquats

Post up ya pics mate


----------



## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Natty steve?


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> 5' 8" and 14 stone.... Good work mate, looking in good shape... respect.


 It's 5'10'' You can't just take 2 inches off a man like that, it's not right <_<


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> It's 5'10'' You can't just take 2 inches off a man like that, it's not right <_<


 its more like 5' 9" according to the tape measure ... My bad :huh:


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> its more like 5' 9" according to the tape measure ... My bad :huh:


 You need to get a refund on your tape measure. I thought maybe you used an online calculator which gives 5.84 feet.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty


 I pretty much totally disagree with you, I know quite a few juicers who are as weak as piss and small in comparison to myself thus proving your perception is flawed. It is only your perception!


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> You need to get a refund on your tape measure. I thought maybe you used an online calculator which gives 5.84 feet.
> 
> View attachment 151591


 My apologies I stand corrected... My bad...My head is not working correctly atm due to illness... Vestibular Neuronitis! It's an absolute horrendous condition its got my head busted.

I'm 180 and I've always though I was 5' 10 lol


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> My apologies I stand corrected... My bad...My head is not working correctly atm due to illness... Vestibular Neuronitis! It's an absolute horrendous condition its got my head busted.
> 
> I'm 180 and I've always though I was 5' 10 lol


 That's strange, men normally add an inch or 2 :lol:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> That's strange, men normally add an inch or 2 :lol:


 Might have been this :confused1:


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

jake87 said:


> Sure you spoke about juicing before a few times


 In depth


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Might have been this :confused1:
> 
> 
> View attachment 151595


 12" in a foot. 0.8333333333 x 12 = 10 roughly


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> 12" in a foot. 0.8333333333 x 12 = 10 roughly


 My cock is 12" but I don't use it as a rule


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> My cock is 12" but I don't use it as a rule


 I should hope not :huh:


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Heavyassweights said:


> In depth


 I'm not making it up then. Can't remember his old name to look for the posts


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

jake87 said:


> I'm not making it up then. Can't remember his old name to look for the posts


 Jhatin something


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> Jatin something


 JatinBatha or sumick like that


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

jake87 said:


> I'm not making it up then. Can't remember his old name to look for the posts


 He's talked about possibly using in the future.


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> He's talked about possibly using in the future.


 Not that it matters if he does or doesn't but he does ha


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> He's talked about possibly using in the future.


https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/299255-low-dose-test-with-deca/?do=embed

He has started quite a few threads concerning drug use and insuline etc

click his avi then go to activity then topics...


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> Not that it matters if he does or doesn't but he does ha


 Nothing worse than a fake natty :huh:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

anna1 said:


> Please dont be jelly I lift more than you do @Heavyassweights
> 
> ta
> 
> View attachment 151571


 If I said you have a beautiful body would you hold it against me?






:lol:


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Heavyassweights said:


> Not that it matters if he does or doesn't but he does ha


 I don't care either way. If he is using why not just admit to it. I'm not calling him a liar either as although looks decent the pics don't scream steroids to me.


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Nothing worse than a fake natty :huh:


 How about a dude posting as a female?


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/299255-low-dose-test-with-deca/?do=embed
> 
> He has started quite a few threads concerning drug use and insuline etc
> 
> click his avi then go to activity then topics...


 4 pages and I gave up. He's either a fake natty or a natty giving out steroid and pct advice. Whats worst?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> How about a dude posting as a female?


 don't mind that...


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jake87 said:


> 4 pages and I gave up. He's either a fake natty or a natty giving out steroid and pct advice. Whats worst?


 he might be a Dr or sumick


----------



## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

jake87 said:


> 4 pages and I gave up. He's either a fake natty or a natty giving out steroid and pct advice. Whats worst?


 He's quite big but he's not really lean

he says in that thread he's natty, I assume he was just going through temptation


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/299255-low-dose-test-with-deca/?do=embed
> 
> He has started quite a few threads concerning drug use and insuline etc
> 
> click his avi then go to activity then topics...


 I found loads on google as well of him offering advice on cycles and PCT

But then he goes on in other threads to say hes never touched AAS...

So best case scenario, he's offering out unqualified advice


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> @EpicSquats
> 
> Post up ya pics mate


 Why? I never claimed to have a good physique or lift a lot. Certain steroid users in here being bitchy girls as usual.


----------



## MM84 (Jun 8, 2017)

EpicSquats said:


> Why? I never claimed to have a good physique or lift a lot. Certain steroid users in here being bitchy girls as usual.


 Yeah i don't see why you would want to have a good physique or even lift a lot..........I mean this is only a bodybuilding forum :whistling:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> Why? I never claimed to have a good physique or lift a lot. Certain steroid users in here being bitchy girls as usual.


 quriosity mate nothing more... natty is good imo


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> This has actually turned into a decent debate and well done to the nattys for not rising to the bait (apart from ShiteSquats that is :lol: :lol: ).


 Troll thread. Just as I thought. Aren't you in your 40's? I'd expect this type of thread from a kid who got his first juice gains but not someone who's supposed to be mature. Pathetic.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

MM84 said:


> Yeah i don't see why you would want to have a good physique or even lift a lot..........I mean this is only a bodybuilding forum :whistling:


 I lift a bit but I'm not obsessed. What's wrong with that? Is this a competition all of a sudden?


----------



## MM84 (Jun 8, 2017)

EpicSquats said:


> I lift a bit but I'm not obsessed. What's wrong with that? Is this a competition all of a sudden?


 Not at all mate. Just a bit of banter


----------



## sjacks (Dec 10, 2017)

Jordan08 said:


> View attachment 151575


 I know that guy in the background, he's a trainer, right?


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

jake87 said:


> Sure you spoke about juicing before a many times


 But couldn't do it.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

sjacks said:


> I know that guy in the background, he's a trainer, right?


 Yeah. No one believes him if he doesnt wear that T-shirt


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> Looking good mate
> 
> still suspect though


 Two compliment in a same comment. Rare from you


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

JohhnyC said:


> Looking solid dude. Bf kept in check too :thumbup1:
> 
> Same, my best lifts are behind me. Joints have taken their toll now. I'm gone from lifting very heavy. Don't care anymore


 Thank you. I must be around 15% but i have to put best available pictures to support the case for nattys in this thread...haha


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Jordan08 said:


> Thank you. I must be around 15% but i have to put best available pictures to support the case for nattys in this thread...haha


 Hard to be accurate but I'd reckon 15 or 16. I'm pretty spot on regarding myself but others can carry less or more visceral fat and a dexia scan is the only way to tell really.

I think visual abs is a good marker for the 15% bf

I had one came out at 15.7 I thought I was 15 or a bit under.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

JohhnyC said:


> Hard to be accurate but I'd reckon 15 or 16. I'm pretty spot on regarding myself but others can carry less or more visceral fat and a dexia scan is the only way to tell really.
> 
> I think visual abs is a good marker for the 15% bf
> 
> I had one came out at 15.7 I thought I was 15 or a bit under.


 It can be higher than what i said. In morning, i can see the inter coastal muscles and two upper abs (Not clearly though). I picked this advice from here by Banzi that bulk upto a stage where you can see the above mentioned muscles, if not cut back your food.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I pretty much totally disagree with you, I know quite a few juicers who are as weak as piss and small in comparison to myself thus proving your perception is flawed. It is only your perception!


 I thought we had established that my assertions were proven.

http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/bpu-records/

BPU : 697.5KG total in u125 Raw M1.

http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/abpu-records/

ABPU : 622.5G total in u125 Raw M1.

What I stated in the OP was this "nattys are inferior....when it comes to physique or strength sports".

Did I miss something? If you have any factual evidence to the contrary, please post up.

I'll read the rest of the posts now.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> I thought we had established that my assertions were proven.
> 
> http://www.britishpowerliftingunion.co.uk/bpu-records/
> 
> ...


 Only If every other thing being constant like diet and nutrition, Obviously Yes. You can't compare a Lamborghini with Hyundai.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> Troll thread. Just as I thought. Aren't you in your 40's? I'd expect this type of thread from a kid who got his first juice gains but not someone who's supposed to be mature. Pathetic.


 No trolling here. Proven my hypothesis with facts.

Also, you was the only one throwing around insults (" insecure ***", "jealous school girl", "jog on" etc) from the beginning which is understandable as you are a pencil neck and petrified of posting up pics/vids (which people have asked many times - not me BTW, I know you don't have the bollocks/physique/strength for it).


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

SwoleTip said:


> He's quite big but he's not really lean
> 
> he says in that thread he's natty, I assume he was just going through temptation


 I'm on about the posts he's made outside of that thread. Someone called him out in one of the threads


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

jake87 said:


> 4 pages and I gave up. He's either a fake natty or a natty giving out steroid and pct advice. Whats worst?


 LOL. I am a fake natty, if that makes you happy sir!!


----------



## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

jake87 said:


> I'm on about the posts he's made outside of that thread. Someone called him out in one of the threads


 Never understood why someone would lie about their natty status unless they were making money from it.


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Jordan08 said:


> LOL. I am a fake natty, if that makes you happy sir!!


 Either that or you are natural but giving out steroid and pct advice with no experience.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

jake87 said:


> Either that or *you are natural but giving out steroid and pct advice with no experience*.


 Is it wrong to give advice without using it?. Not efficient as a user but i believe it's not wrong to give a handy input to someone who has spend less time on researching or reading. I never have given an advice to someone whom i think doesn't need it. But, i believe giving the advice to someone who hasn't done a bit of research can be a handy input for them.

I have always believed, its better to take a wise advice from a non user than a blunt advice from a user.

I have been asked this a lot you can't give advice on gear without having the experience of it. But, if you see the history of my posts on AAS, They are always on general queries not specific ones. For e.g. if someone say do you experience hair loss on tren?. i wouldnt be able to provide real input. But, i can say that tren being every androgenic, it is very mch possible.

I have always been inclined towards learning more and more about gear. Why?. Because that was my motto behind joining this forum. To learn and start. And, yes, i will take a dark side. Not sure, when though. Till then happy with what i am doing but the urge is always there.

EDIT:- I feel there are more dick heads on gear than the knowledgeable guys on AAS as non user. From what i have seen in real life.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/311315-second-cycle-help/?do=embed

@jake87, Check my last post in this thread. You would get what i am referring to in my last post.


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Jordan08 said:


> Is it wrong to give advice without using it?. Not efficient as a user but i believe it's not wrong to give a handy input to someone who has spend less time on researching or reading. I never have given an advice to someone whom i think doesn't need it. But, i believe giving the advice to someone who hasn't done a bit of research can be a handy input for them.
> 
> I have always believed, its better to take a wise advice from a non user than a blunt advice from a user.
> 
> ...


 Giving out what you call General advice on potentially life altering drugs based on what you have read - regurgitating info, is no joke. This thread for example

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/311017-aromasin-and-sore-joints/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=5883369&embedComment=5883369&embedDo=findComment#comment-5883369

And this one

you use the term 'I believe ' fairly frequently.

Do you have good intentions? It appears so although as you have never had first hand experience of the drug or have any qualifications is it a good idea to be giving advice?


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

jake87 said:


> Giving out what you call General advice on potentially life altering drugs based on what you have read - regurgitating info, is no joke. This thread for example
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/311017-aromasin-and-sore-joints/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=5883369&embedComment=5883369&embedDo=findComment#comment-5883369
> 
> ...


 Qualifications?. If we go by it, half of the forum shouldn't be on the gear except few. I bet, if you read AMA thread and you would feel the same about yourself how less you know.

But, i get your point. If you all people think that as a natty, i shouldn't be putting anything related to them just on the basis of read. Point noted. You won't ever see me giving the input.

Cheers!!!


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

If you don't want to take gear don't.. if you do crack on!! Personally I have ran gear on and off for about 8years.

Personally I wish I started later in life. But that can't be changed!!

My stats

250kg deadlift / 190kg squat / 150kg bench / 105kg ohp - Weight is 83kg!!

Cycle for the above was 125-150mg test per week!! Most of last year or two I have sat on TRT. Until this week I have moved up to a cycle which is 600test 300tren


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Strong denial in this thread


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

ive spoken to @Jordan08 a few times on this forum and seen his temptation but i do believe hes natural based on what ive read and the fact there's no need to lie to a forum full of largely faceless avis with very few of us sharing our names or even location, there's just no point

i think he just has decent genetics for muscle building and muscle insertions as well as knowledge on training and nutrition.

and with regards to the OP

you can look great as a natural and in *some* cases better than those that are enhanced however you will ALWAYS be bigger, stronger and more aesthetic with all other variables being equal and properly implementing PED's

as far as performance enhancing, gear does far more for hypertrophy than it does strength 
you will obviously get stronger on gear with all other variables equal but PED's do nothing for movement pattern practice, neural efficiency and motor unit recruitment

and in terms of aesthetics the ceiling for how strong you can get naturally is a lot higher than it is for the amount of lbm you can accrue

natural bodybuilding vs natural powerlifting proves that

there is also the excess glycogen retention and androgen receptor density in the delts and upper pecs giving a much fuller look even in a depleted state


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

I have spoken to @Jordan08 on a few occasions here and on instagram and do believe he is natty.

There is no harm in giving advise if said person has studied the subject! You don't need to use it to credit yourself enough to pass on knowledge..

as he stated I've had guys ask me in the gym about my cycle and have asked what they are running and the advise they got from their 'source' wasn't far of ridiculous!!

Jordan continue posting if there are people willing to listen and appreciate your post. I for one have your back bro


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

swole troll said:


> ive spoken to @Jordan08 a few times on this forum and seen his temptation but i do believe hes natural based on what ive read and the fact there's no need to lie to a forum full of largely faceless avis with very few of us sharing our names or even location, there's just no point
> 
> i think he just has decent genetics for muscle building and muscle insertions.
> 
> ...


 That's a good explanation


----------



## Mickstar (Nov 21, 2017)

I don't take steroids and even though the urge is there I believe I can still improve naturally I'm 34 nearly 35 and improving ,I feel with good nutrition and a good routine with progressive overload and rest I can get better without steroids. I believe jordan08 is natural he looks good and has size but isn't a crazy level of body fat. Plus if he's done alot of research in taking steroids why wouldn't he give an opinion I'm learning from guys on here how it should be done because I've had the urge ,but I've came across alot of people talking about taking crazy doses and especially first timers wanting to take various amount of different stuff , and this is coming from people who take the stuff., I know there's alot of good info on here you just need to look for it .


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Heavyassweights said:


> Strong denial in this thread


 No there isn't


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

swole troll said:


> ive spoken to @Jordan08 a few times on this forum and seen his temptation but i do believe hes natural based on what ive read and the fact there's no need to lie to a forum full of largely faceless avis with very few of us sharing our names or even location, there's just no point
> 
> i think he just has decent genetics for muscle building and muscle insertions as well as knowledge on training and nutrition.
> 
> ...


 I disagree with this, It is all down to how the guy/guys train and their genetics. To show two entirely different people who will have very different training regimes and nutrition is not consistent with the argument. I am natural and have big shoulders, big developed traps and good thickness in the upper chest, yet I have not taken a single anabolic steroid or PED in my life! Its my genetic makeup coupled with my training regime which has allowed me to develop these areas in line with my other body parts.


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> No there isn't


 x


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> No trolling here. Proven my hypothesis with facts.
> 
> Also, you was the only one throwing around insults (" insecure ***", "jealous school girl", "jog on" etc) from the beginning which is understandable as you are a pencil neck and petrified of posting up pics/vids (which people have asked many times - not me BTW, I know you don't have the bollocks/physique/strength for it).


 "As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s."

This is what you said in your first post. Do you know the meaning of the word insult or not really? Just be honest. You made an instulting troll thread to get your little buzz that you take steroids and lift more than most natties. Congratulations. You're a big man. But it's easy to be a strong powerlifter on a forum of bodybuilders. Take your attitude over to Sugden Barbell where the enhanced and natural powelifters are and you will be laughed at. You're numbers won't be impressive on there and you know it. So keep insulting people like me who don't powerlift to compete and don't bodybuild. It's pretty pathetic. It's like a pro-boxer going into a boxing gym and taking the p1ss out of all the hobbyist boxers who box for a bit of fun. You're a w**ker bro.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

herc said:


> I have spoken to @Jordan08 on a few occasions here and on instagram and do believe he is natty.
> 
> There is no harm in giving advise if said person has studied the subject! You don't need to use it to credit yourself enough to pass on knowledge..
> 
> ...


 Thanks brother. Those words means a lot


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty i.e. secretly jabbing or ingesting PEDS. e.g. Hodge Flids, Kali, Jeff Seid etc&#8230;..
> 
> To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?
> 
> ...


 Burden of proof is on you my friend.

I'm more of a believer in,

No such thing as natties, just bro's in waiting!


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I disagree with this, It is all down to how the guy/guys train and their genetics. To show two entirely different people who will have very different training regimes and nutrition is not consistent with the argument. I am natural and have big shoulders, big developed traps and good thickness in the upper chest, yet I have not taken a single anabolic steroid or PED in my life! Its my genetic makeup coupled with my training regime which has allowed me to develop these areas in line with my other body parts.


 The picture isn't 100% accurate but some of its points stand true like the amount of fullness a natural will lose cutting to that level of body fat

It's nature of the game, intentionally cutting that lean is unnatural and the body will burn the midnight fuel (muscle) in a bid to prevent you doing so

* Shredded

* Natural

* Huge

Pick 2


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

swole troll said:


> The picture isn't 100% accurate but some of its points stand true like the amount of fullness a natural will lose cutting to that level of body fat
> 
> It's nature of the game, intentionally cutting that lean is unnatural and the body will burn the midnight fuel (muscle) in a bid to prevent you doing so
> 
> ...


 The picture is a farcical

Intentionally cutting to that % of leanness is counterintuitive/counterproductive for naturals. Its plain stupidity for someone who is wanting to build and sustain a muscular physique to be that "shredded".

Shredded is an unnatural even unhealthy physical state. That said there is no real option of shredded, shredded is the look inspired by people who compete against each other in an unnatural physical state during competition.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> "As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s."
> 
> This is what you said in your first post. Do you know the meaning of the word insult or not really? Just be honest. You made an instulting troll thread to get your little buzz that you take steroids and lift more than most natties. Congratulations. You're a big man. But it's easy to be a strong powerlifter on a forum of bodybuilders. Take your attitude over to Sugden Barbell where the enhanced and natural powelifters are and you will be laughed at. You're numbers won't be impressive on there and you know it. So keep insulting people like me who don't powerlift to compete and don't bodybuild. It's pretty pathetic. It's like a pro-boxer going into a boxing gym and taking the p1ss out of all the hobbyist boxers who box for a bit of fun. You're a w**ker bro.


 In case you didn't notice, I was inclusive in the OP - physique or strength sports.

Also, your analogy about a pro boxer couldn't be more incorrect - I am an amateur with 1 PL comp under my belt  Thanks for the compliment though.

If the OP was so insulting, why are you the only one squealing repeatedly?

There has been some good discussion in here, about gear/lifting/BB, just like the old days and what we should be discussing, not the usual drivel in Gen Con. Just because your are a Pencil Neck, there is no need to be upset, the big fellas will allow you in :thumb


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

I think it's simple, re the pics.

You have what I'd say is a trinity.

Size (development etc), condition (leanness dryness), and shape (fullness etc)

I'd go as far to say, that natty, you can have 1 to 2 of those at stage time.

Like if you have size, the other two will be lacking, if you have condition, the other two and so on, maybe you luck out and hit everything spot on, you may have say, size and fairly good condition, but not likely top notch for two .

PEDs are not only roids.

But diuretics, things like dnp etc. Loads of other things. Slin to really fill out for stage etc.

So, for me, it's fairly easy to see.

I just don't think it is possible to tick all the boxes natty.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

EpicSquats said:


> "As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s."
> 
> This is what you said in your first post. Do you know the meaning of the word insult or not really? Just be honest. You made an instulting troll thread to get your little buzz that you take steroids and lift more than most natties. Congratulations. You're a big man. But it's easy to be a strong powerlifter on a forum of bodybuilders. Take your attitude over to Sugden Barbell where the enhanced and natural powelifters are and you will be laughed at. You're numbers won't be impressive on there and you know it. So keep insulting people like me who don't powerlift to compete and don't bodybuild. It's pretty pathetic. It's like a pro-boxer going into a boxing gym and taking the p1ss out of all the hobbyist boxers who box for a bit of fun. You're a w**ker bro.


 You seriously think all powerlifters don't take gear? And I seem to remember you saying "tested competitions" you seriously believe if someone pssses a test they don't use steroids? Or would they know when there going to get tested and make sure it's clesr out there system?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

simonboyle said:


> I think it's simple, re the pics.
> 
> You have what I'd say is a trinity.
> 
> ...


 It's immpossible, to eat the amount of calories you need to build muscle would also make you a fat c**t.


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

EpicSquats said:


> So what you're saying is, you yourself would be inferior if you didn't take steroids. So it's the steroids making you stronger. Do you want a medal for taking steroids? I really don't see the point of this thread. And since you want to turn it into some steroid user vs natty thing, the world strongest ever squat as I have already mentioned was done in a tested competition. A guy who wasn't on steroids squatted hundreds of pounds more than you.


 The all time world record is 500kg and I do not believe it was done in a tested federation, not that tested even means natural


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Jakemaguire said:


> The all time world record is 500kg and I do not believe it was done in a tested federation, not that tested even means natural


 If lance Armstrong can get away with it for years then who knows who really is natty.

The lads I follow on IG that competed in the IPF are ridiculously strong. I mean there are guys in the 70kg category pullin over 300kg ffs!!

i suspect a lot of them are dabbling in short Ester / water base anabolics.


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## TommyP87 (Feb 18, 2017)

No one has mentioned the ultimate test of manliness. Who has the biggest balls?


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

herc said:


> If lance Armstrong can get away with it for years then who knows who really is natty.
> 
> The lads I follow on IG that competed in the IPF are ridiculously strong. I mean there are guys in the 70kg category pullin over 300kg ffs!!
> 
> i suspect a lot of them are dabbling in short Ester / water base anabolics.


 There definitely are freaks out there with tremendous strength without drugs one of my training partners has pulled just over 300kg and squatted 300kg as a junior at just over 90kg he's also pressed 180kg all of this in competition and he's never used anything there's plenty of strong nattys out there most of the people on drugs would still be very strong without them


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Jakemaguire said:


> There definitely are freaks out there with tremendous strength without drugs one of my training partners has pulled just over 300kg and squatted 300kg as a junior at just over 90kg he's also pressed 180kg all of this in competition and he's never used anything there's plenty of strong nattys out there most of the people on drugs would still be very strong without them


 Over 90 though buddy -these guys are in the 70 under 83 cat pulling 320kg


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Jakemaguire said:


> The all time world record is 500kg and I do not believe it was done in a tested federation, not that tested even means natural


 Do you mean the squat by Vlad Alhazov? Yes, he lifted the most with wraps. I was talking about the record for squatting raw.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Shredded is an unnatural even unhealthy physical state.


 Yeah, but it gets fannies wet though so ya know


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> You seriously think all powerlifters don't take gear? And I seem to remember you saying "tested competitions" you seriously believe if someone pssses a test they don't use steroids? Or would they know when there going to get tested and make sure it's clesr out there system?


 There's no proof that all powelifters take gear. I would be surprised if every powerlifter on the planet took gear. What are the chances?


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

EpicSquats said:


> There's no proof that all powelifters take gear. I would be surprised if every powerlifter on the planet took gear. What are the chances?


 No just the strongest ones.


----------



## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

EpicSquats said:


> Do you mean the squat by Vlad Alhazov? Yes, he lifted the most with wraps. I was talking about the record for squatting raw.


 I do and it is raw and after a knee replacement surgery and possibly a lighter bodyweight than Ray Williams, if knee sleeves did nothing people wouldn't be using them or wearing the a couple sizes too small to gain extra benefit


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> You seriously think all powerlifters don't take gear? And I seem to remember you saying "tested competitions" you seriously believe if someone pssses a test they don't use steroids? Or would they know when there going to get tested and make sure it's clesr out there system?


 Thats what I said before. Really there is so no such thing as a completely natural powerlifting competition as some of the steroids can leave your system in weeks (please don't laugh at me if iv got that wrong)


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Jakemaguire said:


> I do and it is raw and after a knee replacement surgery and possibly a lighter bodyweight than Ray Williams, if knee sleeves did nothing people wouldn't be using them or wearing the a couple sizes too small to gain extra benefit


 I'm not aware of his record raw. I only know about the one that's on the list of powerlifting records on powerlifting watch. If you know something I don't, fairplay.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

nWo said:


> Yeah, but it gets fannies wet though so ya know


 Incorrect.... it may get a small % of the female populus going. That see through veiny look is not a pleasant one. I would suggest 10 - 15 % maybe as high as 18% bf for men is where it is at in terms of physical attraction. This is within a natural healthy range which has been programmed into us through natural selection. 

This is where men fall flat on their face when it comes to physically impressing the opposite sex. You need a normal bf % to look healthy. Healthy, strong and fit = attractive, Malnutrition is not a good look


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## Mickstar (Nov 21, 2017)

I feel u look better in clothes carrying more bodyfat and look fuller plus bigger , when I cut weight I get more definition but look alot smaller in clothes and withdrawn in the face, I feel the only benefit to cut down so much for me is when I can take the wee ones swimming and that's about the only chance in Scotland u get to take off your top, so for now I like to keep a bit if weight on me look good in a jumper.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Incorrect.... it may get a small % of the female populus going. That see through veiny look is not a pleasant one. I would suggest 10 - 15 % maybe as high as 18% bf for men is where it is at in terms of physical attraction. This is within a natural healthy range which has been programmed into us through natural selection.
> 
> This is where men fall flat on their face when it comes to physically impressing the opposite sex. You need a normal bf % to look healthy. Healthy, strong and fit = attractive, Malnutrition is not a good look


 No offence, but you're a lot older than me, girls in their 20s like abs


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Incorrect.... it may get a small % of the female populus going. That see through veiny look is not a pleasant one. I would suggest 10 - 15 % maybe as high as 18% bf for men is where it is at in terms of physical attraction. This is within a natural healthy range which has been programmed into us through natural selection.
> 
> This is where men fall flat on their face when it comes to physically impressing the opposite sex. You need a normal bf % to look healthy. Healthy, strong and fit = attractive, Malnutrition is not a good look


 I'd disagree hitting sub 10% I get a proper jaw line etc back. Women loved it.

I even had drs in my old job complimenting me on look and were surprised I didn't look gaunt or unhealthy after my cut. Just looked lean, full and vascular.

You can't really comment on a personal level though as you've never been under 10% bf :whistling:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> I'd disagree hitting sub 10% I get a proper jaw line etc back. Women loved it.
> 
> I even had drs in my old job complimenting me on look and were surprised I didn't look gaunt or unhealthy after my cut. Just looked lean, full and vascular.
> 
> You can't really comment on a personal level though as you've never been under 10% bf :whistling:


 In my younger days I struggles to get over 10% I was a naturally lean youth and young adult who although ripped as you so put it I always felt skinny and underweight.

You miss the point... We are talking natty here... Now take your drugs away from you and go sub 10% ...whats left... a lil skinny runt.... I rest my case. :whistling:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

nWo said:


> No offence, but you're a lot older than me, girls in their 20s like abs


 I have abs


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I have abs


 Everyone has abs


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> Everyone has abs


 Mine are quite well developed and visible.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> I'd disagree hitting sub 10% I get a proper jaw line etc back. Women loved it.
> 
> I even had drs in my old job complimenting me on look and were surprised I didn't look gaunt or unhealthy after my cut. Just looked lean, full and vascular.
> 
> You can't really comment on a personal level though as you've never been under 10% bf :whistling:


 Same here mate, it seems like the lower my bodyfat goes the more attractive I look, facially, and I never look gaunt in the slightest. You're never going to look "malnourished" when you've got popping traps, delts and tris :thumb


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

nWo said:


> Same here mate, it seems like the lower my bodyfat goes the more attractive I look, facially, and I never look gaunt in the slightest. You're never going to look "malnourished" when you've got popping traps, delts and tris :thumb


 Haha yeah.

Check out the diffence here on my cut last year losing 31 pounds - look at the head shape I never really realised until someone pointed it out :lol:


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

monkeybiker said:


> No there isn't


 Not sure if serious or irony


----------



## DaPump (Aug 30, 2017)

AestheticManlet said:


> Haha yeah.
> 
> Check out the diffence here on my cut last year losing 31 pounds - look at the head shape I never really realised until someone pointed it out :lol:
> 
> ...


 Basically kept all your muscle! That's good work man!


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

DaPump said:


> Basically kept all your muscle! That's good work man!


 It's called the trenbolone method :lol:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

DaPump said:


> Basically kept all your muscle! That's good drugs man!


 Fixed :whistling:


----------



## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

jake87 said:


> Not sure if serious or irony


 That's your problem not mine.


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

If any more words come pouring out of your c**t mouths. I'm going to have to eat every fu**ing chicken in this room


----------



## DaPump (Aug 30, 2017)

AestheticManlet said:


> It's called the trenbolone method :lol:


 I doubt I could get on with Tren I think I'll try it next cycle though just to see if I can or not..

if not Test, NPP n mast it is!


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

DaPump said:


> I doubt I could get on with Tren I think I'll try it next cycle though just to see if I can or not..
> 
> if not Test, NPP n mast it is!


 Tren loves me. Deca doesn't.

Only know if you try it :thumbup1:

I pretty much know what I can and can't run now including most orals, trial and error.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

DaPump said:


> I doubt I could get on with Tren I think I'll try it next cycle though just to see if I can or not..
> 
> if not Test, NPP n mast it is!


 I've never used tren mate and I don't seem to lose any muscle. Even on a cruise dose of 250mg of test I seem fine. I typically ditch the heavy training though and go for high volume methods like Vince Gironda's.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

AestheticManlet said:


> I'd disagree hitting sub 10% I get a proper jaw line etc back. Women loved it.


 Maybe you're one of those folk who naturally holds fat/water in your face so when you diet your face becomes 'normal'.


----------



## Mickstar (Nov 21, 2017)

nWo said:


> I've never used tren mate and I don't seem to lose any muscle. Even on a cruise dose of 250mg of test I seem fine. I typically ditch the heavy training though and go for high volume methods like Vince Gironda's.


 Is his training methods similar to German volume training and have you found it effective


----------



## Jonk891 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cutting/bulking high or low bodyfat I'm still attractive as fuk I'd even look good fat haha


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Maybe you're one of those folk who naturally holds fat/water in your face so when you diet your face becomes 'normal'.


 True. Same for my chest it's savage for it :thumbup1:


----------



## DaPump (Aug 30, 2017)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Maybe you're one of those folk who naturally holds fat/water in your face so when you diet your face becomes 'normal'.


 Hardly normal :lol:


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

DaPump said:


> Hardly normal :lol:


 Ok, he gets a more normal chiselled look....


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Mickstar said:


> Is his training methods similar to German volume training and have you found it effective


 It's commonly believed that he was either one of the inventors of the 10x10 method, or if not one of the first people to use it. His routines differ from GVT, though. You basically use the same weight on all sets (like GVT), but only rest 30 seconds between all sets. When you can complete all the sets, decrease the rests by 5 seconds next time or add some weight, or even add some volume. For example, his most popular methods are 5x5, 6x6 and 8x8 (you do these as a normal set/rep scheme, so you can do 5-8 exercises per session as normal and use these three rep schemes on exercises of your choosing) - if you can complete 5x5 with 30 seconds rest between sets, then next time you add a set for 6x5. Then progress to 6x6, 7x6 and work up to 8x8. Then once you can complete 8x8 with 30 seconds of rests with that weight, increase the weight by 10-15% and start over with 5x5. Vince said 10x10 is for specialisation only since you're limited to how many exercises you can do with it due to the sheer volume, but 8x8 on 5-8 exercises is very manageable for example.

I've used his methods a lot over the past few years and they work well for me, nice simple progression system which I love and yeah, as I said, it works. You can even mix things up and go heavy on your big exercises and then use Gironda's methods on secondaries, or if you're on something like an upper/lower split have heavy days and light (Gironda method) days.


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

EpicSquats said:


> As long as you understand you're lifts are much weaker than the top tested powerlifters that's the main thing. Good lad.


 You are aware steroids are rampant in the "tested" powerlifting scene?


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

nWo said:


> It's commonly believed that he was either one of the inventors of the 10x10 method, or if not one of the first people to use it.


 Does anyone ever stick to a GVT routine? Gets dull very quick. Tried it several times but eventually dropped it. Won't deny it's a great way to break through a plateau!


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

JohhnyC said:


> Does anyone ever stick to a GVT routine? Gets dull very quick. Tried it several times but eventually dropped it. Won't deny it's a great way to break through a plateau!


 I quite like it, done it for 6 week stints on numerous occasions. I'm much more a fan of the Wendler style, though, where you do the heavy work on a big compound first and then either 10x10 on the same exercise or on something secondary.


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

nWo said:


> It's commonly believed that he was either one of the inventors of the 10x10 method, or if not one of the first people to use it. His routines differ from GVT, though. You basically use the same weight on all sets (like GVT), but only rest 30 seconds between all sets. When you can complete all the sets, decrease the rests by 5 seconds next time or add some weight, or even add some volume. For example, his most popular methods are 5x5, 6x6 and 8x8 (you do these as a normal set/rep scheme, so you can do 5-8 exercises per session as normal and use these three rep schemes on exercises of your choosing) - if you can complete 5x5 with 30 seconds rest between sets, then next time you add a set for 6x5. Then progress to 6x6, 7x6 and work up to 8x8. Then once you can complete 8x8 with 30 seconds of rests with that weight, increase the weight by 10-15% and start over with 5x5. Vince said 10x10 is for specialisation only since you're limited to how many exercises you can do with it due to the sheer volume, but 8x8 on 5-8 exercises is very manageable for example.
> 
> I've used his methods a lot over the past few years and they work well for me, nice simple progression system which I love and yeah, as I said, it works. You can even mix things up and go heavy on your big exercises and then use Gironda's methods on secondaries, or if you're on something like an upper/lower split have heavy days and light (Gironda method) days.


 Sounds tiring, not for me. I like to blast my tunes go hard on each lift and rest when I need it.

I think I'd dread watching the timer drop knowing I'm picking up my next set. :lol:


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

On a legs day I struggled with it. Made legs feel like jelly though!


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

nWo said:


> I quite like it, done it for 6 week stints on numerous occasions. I'm much more a fan of the Wendler style, though, where you do the heavy work on a big compound first and then either 10x10 on the same exercise or on something secondary.


 This is what ive been running for the last 4 months 5/3/1 BBB.

its ****in class never leave a workout feeling like it was wasted.


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> This is what ive been running for the last 4 months 5/3/1 BBB.
> 
> its ****in class never leave a workout feeling like it was wasted.


 How you got it setup? I couldn't get away with upper lower style hitting all 4 lifts twice a week.

Lower days were awful.


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Gvt squats is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't be surprised if some haven't had heart trouble after doing those


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> Sounds tiring, not for me. I like to blast my tunes go hard on each lift and rest when I need it.
> 
> I think I'd dread watching the timer drop knowing I'm picking up my next set. :lol:


 Yeah, gets a bit cardio-ey on bigger exercises :lol: It's a nice change, though. No need to psych yourself up for any lifts, basically just go through the motions, do the sets and reps, then make it a bit harder next time if you finish it.


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

nWo said:


> Yeah, gets a bit cardio-ey on bigger exercises :lol: It's a nice change, though. No need to psych yourself up for any lifts, basically just go through the motions, do the sets and reps, then make it a bit harder next time if you finish it.


 And man ain't doing 10x10 deads. I remember on 531 BBB all too well, was blowing outa my arse on 5x10 after hitting squats for 531 :lol:

Deads 531 then squats wasn't as bad though, I just dreaded the lower days.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> And man ain't doing 10x10 deads. I remember on 531 BBB all too well, was blowing outa my arse on 5x10 after hitting squats for 531 :lol:
> 
> Deads 531 then squats wasn't as bad though, I just dreaded the lower days.


 Yeah, I never do the Vince Gironda 10x10, if I'm ever doing 10x10 I prefer longer rests. His 5x5 is my favourite, short and sweet and gets the job done, decent weights used (75% 1RM) as well. I attribute a lot of my quad gains to 5x5 squats with 30 second rests :thumbup1:


----------



## InAndOut (Dec 3, 2015)

jake87 said:


> Gvt squats is the worst thing ever. I wouldn't be surprised if some haven't had heart trouble after doing those


 Too taxing on the body!


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

AestheticManlet said:


> How you got it setup? I couldn't get away with upper lower style hitting all 4 lifts twice a week.
> 
> Lower days were awful.


 I couldnt possibly maintain all 4 lifts twice a week personally and advance. i prefer to put absolutely everything into one set a week for my big 4.

main lift goes:

1. for my main lift its 3 warm up sets

2. then whatever 531 sets it is.

3. boring but big sets, but up till this week its been formatted 13 week challenge style constantly lowering reps and upping load on 5 BBB sets.

Followed by 2-3 (dependant on bodypart) further exercises for the same muscle sets of 3 group reps 8-12.

finished with 1-2 (same as above) accessory exercises dor assisting muscle group 4 sets of 18-25.

Obviously focus on increasing strength in compound plus one accessory lift a session.

1 minite rest between sets.

Training schedule:

mon - ohp/shoulders/abs

tues - deadlift/back/arms

wed - cardio

thur - legs/calves/core

friday - chest/arms

sat - off/cardio

sun - off

workouts last 45 minutes


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> I couldnt possibly maintain all 4 lifts twice a week personally and advance. i prefer to put absolutely everything into one set a week for my big 4.
> 
> main lift goes:
> 
> ...


 It's all good and well posting up routines but without any pic's of your physique diet and drug protocol it's fu**ing useless, it is just a random routine that might or might not work!

I have posted my routine on numerous occasions inclusive of rep ranges rest periods and nutrition along with progress pics. IMO these must go hand in hand so the interested party can see how the regime has worked for you. Failing to do so amounts to nothing more than facless bulshit. No offence intended.

I see it all too often on this site, people giving advice on training posting up routines etc but they never post anything in terms of progress/pic's to back up what they are saying. This is not directly aimed at you are anyone specifically but more of a general observation.

If a person says he/she does X, Y and Z but looks s**t with no development, would you then consider implementing some or all of their regime/protocol?


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> It's all good and well posting up routines but without any pic's of your physique diet and drug protocol it's fu**ing useless, it is just a random routine that might or might not work!
> 
> I have posted my routine on numerous occasions inclusive of rep ranges rest periods and nutrition along with progress pics. IMO these must go hand in hand so the interested party can see how the regime has worked for you. Failing to do so amounts to nothing more than facless bulshit. No offence intended.
> 
> ...


 For those same reasons you shouldn't give advice :lol:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> For those same reasons you shouldn't give advice :lol:


 Said the skinned rabbit...

Take ya drugs away n you ain't nothing matey. Sad but true. :whistling:


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Said the skinned rabbit...
> 
> Take ya drugs away n you ain't nothing matey. Sad but true. :whistling:


 My recent picture

Your recent picture

Ask anyone what look they prefer

In done with you fat f**k


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> My recent picture
> 
> Your recent picture
> 
> ...


 You been on them bikes?

Post up a short video of yourself. I reckon you will look tiny.

You have gained that look via the injection of drugs. I am 100% natural which you guys seem to overlook and not give credit for... I look big strong and muscular, shirt on or off.









Short video @ 16st 7lbs :

Click:
View attachment Natty_stev'o_.mp4


Post up your short video mate lets see how lil you really look. It could even be a vid of you benching 100kg for 25 or more reps in one set!

Nah.... Didn't think so pal !!!

:whistling:


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> You been on them bikes?
> 
> Post up a short video of yourself. I reckon you will look tiny.
> 
> ...


 Your video doesn't work??


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

The Real Deal - what year was the pic? Got a pic with top off and showing legs?

Frandeman - looking good mate


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> Your video doesn't work??


 Strange:

View attachment Real_Deal.mp4


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> It's all good and well posting up routines but without any pic's of your physique diet and drug protocol it's fu**ing useless, it is just a random routine that might or might not work!
> 
> I have posted my routine on numerous occasions inclusive of rep ranges rest periods and nutrition along with progress pics. IMO these must go hand in hand so the interested party can see how the regime has worked for you. Failing to do so amounts to nothing more than facless bulshit. No offence intended.
> 
> ...


 Where did I say I was giving advice? @AestheticManlet directly asked me how I set up my 5/3/1 BBB so I told him.

But since you want to open this up:

Drug Protocol since Jan 17' - Nothing since november, last cycle 300mg NPP a week for 10 weeks and TRT test (70mg pw). Before that was Jan and TRT test with Dbol at 30mg for 6 weeks.

*Body changes* (bodyfat is an estimate but good to get an idea) I'm 6'1"

*PPL*

Jan 17 (first TRT shot) 89kg 20%

March 17 (first dbol tab) 80kg 12%

May 17 (2 weeks post dbol) 85kg 12%

*START 5/3/1 BBB*

Sep 17 (first NPP shot) 88kg 13-14%

Dec 1st 17 (1 week post NPP) 94kg 15%

Jan 1st 18 (no training for a month, no diet, drinking almost daily) 90kg 16-17%

Today (cut no AAS) 88kg 12%

*1RM* for main lifts before 5/3/1 and now:

*Squat*: 135kg > 180kg

*BP*: 105kg > 135kg

*DL*: 130kg > 195kg

*OHP*: 55kg > 75kg

I choose not to post pics because Id rather not have pics of myself on the internet up alongside my drug protocol take that as you will.

Believe it or not, I value keeping plausible deniability to my current job more than I value "proving myself" to strangers on the internet.

Even with pics, my routine may not work for the next guy, and diet is a huge factor as well.

But OK, lets say I followed your diet, your supplement protocol and your workout routine. Would I look like you? f**k no, because people

A: have different genetics, you claim top tier for example.

B: respond differently to the above factors that have been mentioned

So you can believe me or not, i'm not trying to push my workout or regime on anyone, just doing what i've found works for me as we all do.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Where did I say I was giving advice? @AestheticManlet directly asked me how I set up my 5/3/1 BBB so I told him.
> 
> But since you want to open this up:
> 
> ...


 Chill brother chill it was just an observation which was not directed at any single person.

People can and do blank the face to hide identity.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Strange:
> 
> View attachment 151729


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Anything recent please?

Where we can see abs


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Chill brother chill it was just an observation which was not directed at any single person.
> 
> People can and do blank the face to hide identity.


 Yes i'm aware, but still don't feel comfortable, people already know i use this forum where I work, but don't know my username.

Already enough info on here for people to put 2+2 together without having a pic to confirm.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> The Real Deal - what year was the pic? Got a pic with top off and showing legs?
> 
> Frandeman - looking good mate


 1982 lol....

Nah mate I will update my pics for the forum If or when I feel I need to for those who are interested or just want to hate, which is quite a few on here. I'm looking bigger and leaner at the moment. I have approximately a further 12 months of training from when these pics were taken. I have not taken any pic's of late as I have not been bothered to prove myself to people who do not believe I'm natural and just bitch and say I'm fake natty :lol: . I have been called out on this site on numerous occasions and have always delivered what I have claimed. I enjoy training natty and have built what I believe to be a good above average physique over the year. Being sub 10 -12% bf and taking drugs to achieve this is something I'm not interested in, I am only interested in naturally building muscle mass and being strong and in decent shape. People who take drugs always try to put me an their playing field and hate. So out of pure devilment I retort in the way I do for shits and giggles.

To answer your question and thread title, as a natty I believe nattys are in no way inferior to the user. If anything they should be respected for not jumping on the band wagon and sticking with their own regimes. There is a great deal of pressure from the media and even this site for guys n girls to join the dark side and speed up the process in terms of gaining the physique they desire.

@Frandeman does look good (lean) and yes we do have some banter and call each other but that is just us joking, we have both gave compliments to each other over the forum from time to time which people might not have seen.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Yes i'm aware, but still don't feel comfortable, people already know i use this forum where I work, but don't know my username.
> 
> Already enough info on here for people to put 2+2 together without having a pic to confirm.


 just say your natty.... :lol:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> Anything recent please?
> 
> Where we can see abs


 Post up your video smallfry


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> just say your natty.... :lol:


 I just posted my protocol :huh:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> View attachment 151733


 Using windows media player.

Ill convert for phone software


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> I just posted my protocol :huh:


 :lol:


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Post up your video smallfry


 I like to get high before training

I go to the gym to get pussy


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

View attachment Natty_stev'o_.mp4


Try this...


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Strange:
> 
> View attachment 151729


 Still doesn't work.. prob best linking it to YouTube!


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> Still doesn't work.. prob best linking it to YouTube!


 Try the one I just posted off my phone mate. if that one don't work Ill use my photobucket


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Click image


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


>


 This works but the others don't -


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Click image


 This one should work fine.


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> This one should work fine.


 I thought you were postin the video of your 100kg bench press


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> I thought you were postin the video of your 100kg bench press


 Nah, I already done that a while ago now.


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Nah, I already done that a while ago now.


 Meh


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> It's all good and well posting up routines but without any pic's of your physique diet and drug protocol it's fu**ing useless, it is just a random routine that might or might not work!
> 
> I have posted my routine on numerous occasions inclusive of rep ranges rest periods and nutrition along with progress pics. IMO these must go hand in hand so the interested party can see how the regime has worked for you. Failing to do so amounts to nothing more than facless bulshit. No offence intended.
> 
> ...


 Would I still be able to find what your routine and diet posted? Would be interesting to see it


----------



## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Frandeman said:


> I like to get high before training
> 
> I go to the gym to get pussy


 I heard speed is the best preworkout. Seriously I would try just once to work out on


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Jack of blades said:


> Would I still be able to find what your routine and diet posted? Would be interesting to see it


 Nah mate it was in my log which I deleted after being banned .... lol :lol: It had some personal info within it which when banned you have no control over so I deleted the log.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Click image


 I don't even know you but I hate this picture now!

Must have seen it on here a good couple of hundred times & it doesnt show anything!


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> I don't even know you but I hate this picture now!
> 
> Must have seen it on here a good couple of hundred times & it doesnt show anything!


 Its not a picture its a video! :lol:

I will now use the "picture" as my AVI just fr you 

Post up a pic of yourself to see what you have got to show....! If you don't want to STFU

Hate is a very strong emotion especially directed at a person you don't know.

PS your avi looks s**t.... Do you even lift bro?


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Its not a picture its a video! :lol:
> 
> I will now use the "picture" as my AVI just fr you
> 
> ...


 It's not 'hate' directed at you is it. I'm just lightheartedly stating that I see that picture everywhere but it doesn't really show a lot.

No need to get so defensive.

Also I've never even claimed to be big. I'm aware that at 14st 10 I'm quite small and have a lot to learn but I'd genuinely rather look like me lol. By fu**ing far as well.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> It's not 'hate' directed at you is it. I'm just lightheartedly stating that I see that picture everywhere but it doesn't really show a lot.
> 
> No need to get so defensive.
> 
> ...











Top work...! and you take peds ..... :lol:


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Ok Ive just seen your video and you're a bloated middle aged man. Infact you look like Raoul Moat.

Its funny as well that youre natty but seem to look like the shittest example of an anadrol user and exhibit all the mental symptoms of elevated estrogen (namely being a pissy little girl) lol.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

@The-Real-Deal your go on a forum where most people use gear and constantly bang on about being natural and arguing with folk.

Do you think anyone gives a s**t if someone's natural or not? I personally think your only cheating yourself not taking gear and can't take anyone who bodybuilds natural seriously.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> View attachment 151743
> 
> 
> Top work...! and you take peds ..... :lol:


 Exactly. Hence why Ive been on a cut thats a pic from maybe 2 years ago fat as f**k and accepting of it lol. Its quite clear to see that Ive made progress now isnt it, so thats a good thing...

Thanks for showing my progress in this thread mate.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> Ok Ive just seen your video and you're a bloated middle aged man. Infact you look like Raoul Moat.
> 
> Its funny as well that youre natty but seem to look like the shittest example of an anadrol user and exhibit all the mental symptoms of elevated estrogen (namely being a pissy little girl) lol.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> View attachment 151743
> 
> 
> Top work...! and you take peds ..... :lol:


 You taking the fu**ing piss?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> Exactly. Hence why Ive been on a cut thats a pic from maybe 2 years ago fat as f**k and accepting of it lol. Its quite clear to see that Ive made progress now isnt it, so thats a good thing...
> 
> Thanks for showing my progress in this thread mate.











What progress mate you aint got any ...


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> You taking the fu**ing piss?


 Yes ... Can you not tell? :lol:


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What progress mate you aint got any ...


 Well let's see you've posted a picture of me at 245lb from 2 years ago







and a pic at 207lb from todoy...


----------



## no-one (Jul 3, 2016)

mjl1990 said:


> I don't even know you but I hate this picture now!
> 
> Must have seen it on here a good couple of hundred times & it doesnt show anything!


 Whilst yours shows quality, dense muscle. Proof of many years of solid hard work and dedication.

I'm just sh;tting you - you like you have only just started (no emoji).


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> Well let's see you've posted a picture of me at 245lb from 2 years ago
> 
> View attachment 151751
> and a pic at 207lb from todoy...


 Can you bench 100 kg yet? :whistling:


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

no-one said:


> Whilst yours shows quality, dense muscle. Proof of many years of solid hard work and dedication.
> 
> I'm just sh;tting you - you like you have only just started (no emoji).


 I have... lol


----------



## sean m (Sep 20, 2015)

The-Real-Deal said:


> View attachment 151743
> 
> 
> Top work...! and you take peds ..... :lol:


 Peds = pizza every day.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Seriously... why are you so angry that I said I've seen the same pic a lot of times.

Strange.

And then to post a picture from 2 years ago when I came on here asking for advice on losing weight... which I did... doesn't even make sense. Useless criticism.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> Seriously... why are you so angry that I said I've seen the same pic a lot of times.
> 
> Strange.


 I'm not angry... perception is projection


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> @The-Real-Deal your go on a forum where most people use gear and constantly bang on about being natural and arguing with folk.
> 
> Do you think anyone gives a s**t if someone's natural or not? I personally think your only cheating yourself not taking gear and can't take anyone who bodybuilds natural seriously.


 :lol: Chill man chill...


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> :lol: Chill man chill...
> 
> 
> View attachment 151755


 Every night your arguing with some c**t, you got note better to do?


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Can you bench 100 kg yet? :whistling:


 Wtf is it with you and this 100kg bench s**t?? Yet I asked you to show me the vid of you repping it... might I add not even 1 x your body weight!!

Show me you repping 100kg ohp big man


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

herc said:


> Wtf is it with you and this 100kg bench s**t?? Yet I asked you to show me the vid of you repping it... might I add not even 1 x your body weight!!
> 
> Show me you repping 100kg ohp big man


 Yeah what is fascination with repping out on 100kg bench like it's hard?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Every night your arguing with some c**t, you got note better to do?


 Nah... mate ....You?

I'm not arguing im having a laugh and a debate with people who have the intelligence to do so without throwing insult.... I just retort like for like. If your ok with me I will be more than ok with you.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Nah... mate ....You?
> 
> I'm not arguing im having a laugh and a debate with people who have the intelligence to do so without throwing insult.... I just retort like for like. If your ok with me I will be more than ok with you.


 Not really true is it.

For example I said I hated a PICTURE of you cause I'd seen it so many times.

You responded by saying I look like I dont lift and posting a picture of me from 2 years ago that was meant to be some sort of humiliation and then denying that any progress hd been made.

Think youre maybe just a pr**k.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> Wtf is it with you and this 100kg bench s**t?? Yet I asked you to show me the vid of you repping it... might I add not even 1 x your body weight!!
> 
> Show me you repping 100kg ohp big man


 I posted a video in the bench press challenge thread (100 kg for 25 reps)


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

I haven't insulted you once? But it gets boring it's the same s**t night after night, banging on about being natural, who really gives a f**k if your natural it's your own fault you don't use any Peds no one else's?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> Not really true is it.
> 
> For example I said *I hate*d a PICTURE of you cause I'd seen it so many times.
> 
> ...


 People in glass houses should not throw stones.

Seems like I have hit a nerve ...


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I posted a video in the bench press challenge thread (100 kg for 25 reps)


 I know you have kept saying it over and over again - post it up for half hour then take it down I want to see it


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## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> People in glass houses should not throw stones.
> 
> Seems like I have hit a nerve ...


 You argue with everyone

The common denominator is you


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> I haven't insulted you once? But it gets boring it's the same s**t night after night, banging on about being natural, who really gives a f**k if your natural it's your own fault you don't use any Peds no one else's?


 Why you looking in the natty thread then?

Just don't answer and move on simple ...


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## no-one (Jul 3, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> I haven't insulted you once? But it gets boring it's the same s**t night after night, banging on about being natural, who really gives a f**k if your natural it's your own fault you don't use any Peds no one else's?


 He's been an annoying [email protected] since he joined the forum - bores the fcuk out of everyone. If you ignore him for long enough hopefully he'll just p1ss off


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> I know you have kept saying it over and over again - post it up for half hour then take it down I want to see it


 Nah

cant be arsed mate 

I'll just get more insults :whistling:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

no-one said:


> He's been an annoying [email protected] since he joined the forum - bores the fcuk out of everyone. If you ignore him for long enough hopefully he'll just p1ss off


 Stop answering me then ... simple


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

no-one said:


> He's been an annoying [email protected] since he joined the forum - bores the fcuk out of everyone. If you ignore him for long enough hopefully he'll just p1ss off


 It's hard to ignore and 9 times out of 10 he's arguing with young lads it's like what the f**k.


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## Oioi (Jul 25, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> Every night your arguing with some c**t, you got note better to do?


 Pot kettle black moron.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

mjl1990 said:


> Infact you look like Raoul Moat.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> View attachment 151759


 Lol


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## no-one (Jul 3, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Stop answering me then ... simple


 Normally I don't (although I have now). You are easily one of the most annoying twats on this forum as well as repetitively boring. No-one gives a fcuk whether you like steroids or not, however it's rife on this forum and generally in body building.

Perhaps this place isn't the place for you? Go elsewhere and advocate all of your natural achivements on a forum where people actually care. You really are pathetic.


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## no-one (Jul 3, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> It's hard to ignore and 9 times out of 10 he's arguing with young lads it's like what the f**k.


 I know mate - behaviour of an annoying little school kid only this lad is like 48. Grow the fcuk up.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

no-one said:


> Normally I don't (although I have now). You are easily one of the most annoying twats on this forum as well as repetitively boring. No-one gives a fcuk whether you like steroids or not, however it's rife on this forum and generally in body building.
> 
> Perhaps this place isn't the place for you? Go elsewhere and advocate all of your natural achivements on a forum where people actually care. You really are pathetic.


 FFS have you read the OP?

This is a forum for discussion and learning. Read through the first page onward and you will see it is very civilised until you lot attacked me for being natty, old etc etc. I discuss and give my opinion without insult, I do not hate or belittle or make fun unless its one of the people who I have built a good rapport with. You can however expect the same treatment and response from me which I receive! This is a general con section.. I do not go on the steroid forum ever unless tagged to chat s**t. Gen con is where the real debates take place, if you don't like my approach simply ignore it mate.

I bid you good evening


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> FFS have you read the OP?
> 
> This is a forum for discussion and learning. Read through the first page onward and you will see it is very civilised until you lot attacked me for being natty, old etc etc. I discuss and give my opinion without insult, I do not hate or belittle or make fun unless it one of the people who I have built a good rapport with. You can however expect the same treatment and responce from me which I receive! This is a general con section.. I do not go on the steroid forum ever unless tagged to chat s**t. Gen con is where the real debates take place, if you don't like my approach simply ignore it mate.
> 
> I bid you good evening


 Ow fffs you made me feel sorry for you now!!! And I've never insulted you! Come on then tell us again about how your natural and can bench press 100kg x 25 reps maybe even post that picture again?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Ow fffs you made me feel sorry for you now!!! And I've never insulted you! Come on then tell us again about how your natural and can bench press 100kg x 25 reps maybe even post that picture again?


 LOL

Feeling the love now :boohoo: :beer:

I know it was not you who started with the hate, I come on here for the banter and discussion mate.


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## SimpleLimit (Aug 13, 2016)

You people need to get laid.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

SimpleLimit said:


> You people need to get laid.


 I'm good mate, but thanks for the offer :thumbup1:


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Huntingground said:


> As everyone knows, nattys are inferior in every way to gear users when it comes to physique or strength sports. True nattys either look stringy or are fat cu**s. Anyone who looks or lifts decent and claims natty has always been proven to be a fake natty i.e. secretly jabbing or ingesting PEDS. e.g. Hodge Flids, Kali, Jeff Seid etc&#8230;..
> 
> To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?
> 
> ...


 ^^^ See this is the kind of trolling I like because it gets a good conversation started. :thumb

One of the things I hate are the fake natties who make a career out of being 'natural bodybuilders', where they use their social media pages and podcasts to give out awful advice and flog useless expensive products to naive newbies, all under the false implication that if you do what they say and buy what they sell you you too can look like what they look whilst still being natural.

I don't care in the slightest if someone wants to use PEDs or not from a moral perspective - their body, their choice, and to achieve a certain kind of look it's the obvious and only choice. I like the way many jacked guys look and think that PEDs overall increase an individuals options for the kind of physique they want to sculpt. I just don't like dishonesty about it, although with the current legal ramifications of talking openly about it I do understand caution. Caution however is nowhere near the same as blatant lying.

That said, taking PEDs is by no means a guarantee that an individual will look good or have a decent body. Over the last twenty or so years I've met countless people who barely look like they've touched a barbell yet have probably taken more PEDs than Arnie did.

The best physiques, the very elite, are all genetically blessed and work hard, plus they train well, eat well, rest properly, and have years of dedication behind the physiques they've built as well as any PEDs they've used. For the vast majority of people not blessed with amazing genetics, the difference is down to smart training, appropriate diet, rest and recuperation, effort, consistency, dedication and having a clear plan of what they want to do. PEDs, if chosen, will simply magnify those factors, so if you aren't doing those well then you won't get much from the PEDs you take - and if you stay natural then not doing those things will always keep you limited too but perhaps more obviously. To a slight extent, PEDs can hide lack of proper attention elsewhere.

In regards to PEDs there's also the separate thing that many people have a view that if it's not working all you need to do is 'up the dose', or 'add another compound'. This normally results in cycles of PEDs with more sides than actual benefit, and doesn't do very much to improve anything - or at least results in almost no gains that are actually retainable when off. That's one of the main thing with with PED use, unless done really smartly, people who use only really look any good when on cycle or low dose cruising, especially so if they don't have all the fundamentals in place. Come off and stay off and they often look worse than natties that they were equal to at the point they started to juice.


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## SimpleLimit (Aug 13, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I'm good mate, but thanks for the offer :thumbup1:


 Sorry, I dont f**k fat girls,


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

SimpleLimit said:


> Sorry, I dont f**k fat girls,


 ow :lol:


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

This thread is pretty much just insults :lol:

Nattys are just as good as enhanced bros !


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I may have missed all the pics of the hench nattys or the vids of their awesome lifts. If I did, can someone please point me to the post in this thread please?


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

SimpleLimit said:


> Sorry, I dont f**k fat girls,


 Lol fu**ing lol


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

herc said:


> I know you have kept saying it over and over again - post it up for half hour then take it down I want to see it


 Half reps mate, he needed full chest bone reconstruction after all the bouncing.

x


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Hey natty deals

I never Brag about my lifts and never did

I lift properly small weight

Still got bigger arms than you


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> Hey natty deals
> 
> I never Brag about my lifts and never did
> 
> ...


 Next time your pushing that needle in I know your thinking of me saying to yourself, I must keep my arms big

Arms spawned from a lab which you claim is you...!LOL you are as weak as piss and have a mental illness :lol:

Post up another dick pick pls, this time hide the bag of sweets


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Heavyassweights said:


> Half reps mate, he needed full chest bone reconstruction after all the bouncing.
> 
> x


 Haha - the true strength of a man is an overhead press. He can keep his silly high rep half rep bench press :lol:


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

herc said:


> Haha - the true strength of a man is an overhead press. He can keep his silly high rep half rep bench press :lol:


 I see a over head press challenge coming on


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Jack of blades said:


> I see a over head press challenge coming on


 Waste of time no one will post anything. :whistling:


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

Jack of blades said:


> I see a over head press challenge coming on


 Yes in on this. Slowly working my way back up


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

SwoleTip said:


> Yes in on this. Slowly working my way back up


 What do you think a good weight is for everyone?


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

Jack of blades said:


> What do you think a good weight is for everyone?


 Always thought bodyweight was decent for standing OHP. I used to be able to press my bodyweight for 1 rep but when you can start repping it that's beast mode


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

OHP :lol: a manlets favourite exercise. Will post a vid during the week stacking the pec dec for reps


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Waste of time no one will post anything. :whistling:


 I'll challange you?


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

SwoleTip said:


> Always thought bodyweight was decent for standing OHP. I used to be able to press my bodyweight for 1 rep but when you can start repping it that's beast mode


 I weigh 83kg and push pressed 100kg for reps last week. Im back to log pressing this week but can go to barbell again for the challange.

What is the challange?


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

O it's on now then. Should we say 80kg for reps?


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Jack of blades said:


> O it's on now then. Should we say 80kg for reps?


 To much cardio at that weight - 100kg for reps ?


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

herc said:


> To much cardio at that weight - 100kg for reps ?


 Not everyone would be able to get involved in it though 100kg is to much for some people. More fun if it's a weight everyone can do reps with


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

herc said:


> I'll challange you?


 Show him how's done mate :thumb


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Frandeman said:


> Show him how's done mate :thumb


 I'd settle for a single Squat with any weight at all.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

jake87 said:


> OHP :lol: a manlets favourite exercise. Will post a vid during the week stacking the pec dec for reps


 Pec deck :lol:


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Frandeman said:


> Show him how's done mate :thumb


 I'll take his 100kg bench number and go for max reps on push press with that weight.. how many reps do I need? What's the goal/target??


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> push press


 :lol:









Press behind the neck standing (no leg drive) or seated. Start the thread and see how many post up. If you can get half decent numbers of people taking the challenge I'll post a video.

When I had a training session with Banzi I was doing some standing barbell press behind the neck (sets of 10), he commented how strong my core must be to perform the reps with the weight I had on the bar.

true story bro...!

Push press is a technique exercises like weightlifting.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> View attachment 151993
> ...


 What was the weight? Ps that bloke was a kneb so his compliment is as worthy as s**t.... true story bro!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> What was the weight?


 Start the thread.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Start the thread.


 What's the big secret - why can't you state the weight?

Post up here just you and me... forget the others. Seated barbell shoulder press. You pick the weight


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> What's the big secret - why can't you state the weight?
> 
> Post up here just you and me... forget the others. Seated barbell shoulder press. You pick the weight


 There is no secret...

Just start a thread instead of hijacking this one. Seated press behind the neck See who post.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> There is no secret...
> 
> Just start a thread instead of hijacking this one. Seated press behind the neck See who post.


 It's hardly hijacking when in the first post had

''To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?''


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> It's hardly hijacking when in the first post had
> 
> ''To disprove my theory, can anyone post up pics of their "natty" physique or videos of their "natty" lifts please?''


 Ok

Start posting them then


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Ok
> 
> Start posting them then


 I'm crap at shoulder press, would only get a few reps.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> I'm crap at shoulder press, would only get a few reps.


 with how much weight?

post it anyway.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Ok
> 
> Start posting them then


 What weight and it's front press not back! I'm sgreeing to do seated strict press as apposed to psh press so meet in the middle


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> with how much weight?
> 
> post it anyway.


 80kg strict press. Might get a video, see what I feel like.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

herc said:


> What weight and it's front press not back! I'm sgreeing to do seated strict press as apposed to psh press so meet in the middle


 Seated barbell shoulder press, I take it you want to include some upper chest recruitment lol ok post up your video.

I think it would be better to start a new thread so it can be easily found with a corresponding title. Something like shoulder press challenge... It might even get others involved.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> 80kg strict press. Might get a video, see what I feel like.


 Is that for 1 or a set of 10 + or to as many as you can do in one set ?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Is that for 1 or a set of 10 + or to as many as you can do ?


 Like 2 or 3 I don't know. Not done it for a while.


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

herc said:


> I weigh 83kg and push pressed 100kg for reps last week. Im back to log pressing this week but can go to barbell again for the challange.
> 
> What is the challange?


 With all due respect the push press is not the same as OHP where there is no leg drive etc


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

This is why it needs its own thread, rules/criteria of the challenge need to be laid out


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

SwoleTip said:


> With all due respect the push press is not the same as OHP where there is no leg drive etc


 With a due respect I'd love to see you bang out reps with 100kg + for reps then buddy


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## SwoleTip (Jul 31, 2017)

herc said:


> With a due respect I'd love to see you bang out reps with 100kg + for reps then buddy


 Make the thread and I'll work towards doing it, I feel confident I could get near that weight soon. I've only just started lifting again though after a year off so still working on getting strength back currently.


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## Jack of blades (Apr 2, 2017)

Strict presses are boring. Push pressing is where the party is at


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Jack of blades said:


> Strict presses are boring. Push pressing is where the party is at


 This man knows what he's talking about!! Let's start a push press thread and see if fat boy steve contributes


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Ok
> 
> Start posting them then


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> View attachment 152005


 And not a single weight lifted.

I'm out...


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> And not a single weight lifted.
> 
> I'm out...


 Don't need to

I look fu**ing awesome already 

View attachment 152007


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> Don't need to
> 
> I look fu**ing awesome already


 Posting a still of a video I posted myself ... ! :confused1:

Here is the whole thing. Its a bicep warm up vid I took this about 12 +months ago mate.

enjoy:



It's a part of my ongoing development which I'm quite happy with so far.

I think there is a bit more content in that file you can see, it is what it is..


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