# Usage in prisons



## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

Don't get on here much these days but I'm looking to talk to some guys who have recently been inside and have knowledge of steroid usage within prisons.

there is a possibility of getting funding to put support services into prisons but I need to show that there is a need can anyone help

if anyone can please email me at [email protected]


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## seandog69 (Mar 8, 2013)

@FelonE


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## FGT (Jun 2, 2008)

Most people go to prison and find Jesus then reform...... @FelonE just did his time came out and found Tren...... The rest is history!


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## seandog69 (Mar 8, 2013)

MissMartinez said:


> Wasn't @FelonE natty until he got out!!!


yes, but he is the only member im aware of that has been inside a few times, although he may not have used he may have knowledge of goings on

@Verno, you're a screw (scum) arent you?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

J Star Carr?

He's probably still inside. :laugh:


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

Pm'd


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

kniterider said:


> Pm'd


Criminal ^^^ :lol:

@Therealbigbear Purely out of interest, will any of the info be used on an 'intelligence' level to work out how to stop it getting in..?


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

richardrahl said:


> Criminal ^^^ :lol:
> 
> @Therealbigbear Purely out of interest, will any of the info be used on an 'intelligence' level to work out how to stop it getting in..?


Snitches get stitches :lol:


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

If anyone can, please help therealbigbear, he does a lot of good for AAS users behind the scenes  (and with the news etc!)


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

Should focus on stopping them using in prison, last thing the world needs is convicts going into muscle training camp and coming out harder than before lol


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

b0t13 said:


> Should focus on stopping them using in prison, last thing the world needs is convicts going into muscle training camp and coming out harder than before lol


in the same way they have stopped drugs getting into jail?

If you want something in jail you WILL get it just like outside. Education is key.


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

@HDU

I think he was conceived inside, does that count?


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

richardrahl said:


> Criminal ^^^
> 
> @Therealbigbear Purely out of interest, will any of the info be used on an 'intelligence' level to work out how to stop it getting in..?


no this is to prove support services need improving if your lifted off the street mid a high cycle and remanded no access to pct and having to stop cold that can seriously **** you up. wouldnt it better to be able to get pct support inside. heroin addicts fet support why shouldnt steroud users but with some sort of evidence on the number of users I cant raise funding to out services in place im already do8ng some things with the scottish service but thry are quite forward thinking with all this.

plus guys are running bad cycles due to poor availability. surely its better to educate them so they have at least the information thst allows them to make an educsted discission


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> no this is to prove support services need improving if your lifted off the street mid a high cycle and remanded no access to pct and having to stop cold that can seriously **** you up. wouldnt it better to be able to get pct support inside. heroin addicts fet support why shouldnt steroud users but with some sort of evidence on the number of users I cant raise funding to out services in place im already do8ng some things with the scottish service but thry are quite forward thinking with all this.
> 
> plus guys are running bad cycles due to poor availability. surely its better to educate them so they have at least the information thst allows them to make an educsted discission


lets hope juicers don't use the jail as a pct source


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Therealbigbear said:


> no this is to prove support services need improving if your lifted off the street mid a high cycle and remanded no access to pct and having to stop cold that can seriously **** you up. wouldnt it better to be able to get pct support inside. heroin addicts fet support why shouldnt steroud users but with some sort of evidence on the number of users I cant raise funding to out services in place im already do8ng some things with the scottish service but thry are quite forward thinking with all this.
> 
> plus guys are running bad cycles due to poor availability. surely its better to educate them so they have at least the information thst allows them to make an educsted discission


Repped.


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

As far as I am aware there is no "proven" pct backed medically tho? If I go docs say iv been on cycle for ages I made a mistake and want to come off as far as I know they will do bugger all bar blood tests and potentially bung me on trt?


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kniterider said:


> As far as I am aware there is no "proven" pct backed medically tho? If I go docs say iv been on cycle for ages I made a mistake and want to come off as far as I know they will do bugger all bar blood tests and potentially bung me on trt?


the leading expert in this field is michael scally he has studied and documented thousands of pcts its not backed by the nhs as such but there is plenty of nedical evidence supporting it.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

Heavyassweights said:


> lets hope juicers don't use the jail as a pct source


being realistic its unlikely that pct will become easily available and at best will probably be only made to those actually suffering serve issues if at all but any education is going to be beneficial


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

kniterider said:


> in the same way they have stopped drugs getting into jail?
> 
> If you want something in jail you WILL get it just like outside. Education is key.


True but tbh prison should be a prison, I don't like how there's loads of 'support' BS around now, lock them up in a cell and only let out when they're doing productive things, then with harsher prisons and no access to stuff, it'll actually be a punishment, the fact most come out of prison and in a lot of cases say they prefer it inside shows the system is a joke! Hence people reoffending, ISIS have the right idea of shopping hands off in the street lol, do that and people will think twice before mugging you for an iPhone if they're going to lose their hands!


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

That's called human rights tho.

I agree let them do their rattle behind the door.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

b0t13 said:


> True but tbh prison should be a prison, I don't like how there's loads of 'support' BS around now, lock them up in a cell and only let out when they're doing productive things, then with harsher prisons and no access to stuff, it'll actually be a punishment, the fact most come out of prison and in a lot of cases say they prefer it inside shows the system is a joke! Hence people reoffending, ISIS have the right idea of shopping hands off in the street lol, do that and people will think twice before mugging you for an iPhone if they're going to lose their hands!


You have no clue. Go away.

No-one actually prefers it in prison, the food is sh!t, the gym access is limited, you spend 18 hours a day in a sh!tty cell with some cvnt you don't like and get all your freedom taken away. None of this is good.

Once you've been in a while, if you're a social kind of person, you'll find gear, but its likely to be a bag of oxy's or a vial of deca with 1 needle to do your entire cycle. Both of which will cost more than 4 weeks allowance (your own money mind) or 4x the street price if you can get your family/friends to pay for you outside.

This view you have of prisons being cushy places is only ever held by people with no experience of the realities of prison.


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

squatthis said:


> You have no clue. Go away.
> 
> No-one actually prefers it in prison, the food is sh!t, the gym access is limited, you spend 18 hours a day in a sh!tty cell with some cvnt you don't like and get all your freedom taken away. None of this is good.
> 
> ...


Well if that's true, good although not harsh enough

Luckily I'm a contributor to the country and haven't been inside prison for crimes so sorry about my lack of experience inside a cell 

Or I've never been daft enough to get caught


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

b0t13 said:


> Well if that's true, good although not harsh enough
> 
> Luckily I'm a contributor to the country and haven't been inside prison for crimes so sorry about my lack of experience inside a cell
> 
> Or I've never been daft enough to get caught


Are you trying to say that having been caught committing a crime means someone is not a contributor to the country? I think you have a narrow mind and a lot of built up ignorance.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> lets hope juicers don't use the jail as a pct source


Yep, go and assualt someone when you are coming off, get locked up get free PCT.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

b0t13 said:


> True but tbh prison should be a prison, I don't like how there's loads of 'support' BS around now, lock them up in a cell and only let out when they're doing productive things, then with harsher prisons and no access to stuff, it'll actually be a punishment, the fact most come out of prison and in a lot of cases say they prefer it inside shows the system is a joke! Hence people reoffending, ISIS have the right idea of shopping hands off in the street lol, do that and people will think twice before mugging you for an iPhone if they're going to lose their hands!


Let's hope you never go to prison for something you didn't do or something you didn't mean to do, it's easy done.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

squatthis said:


> You have no clue. Go away.
> 
> No-one actually prefers it in prison, the food is sh!t, the gym access is limited, you spend 18 hours a day in a sh!tty cell with some cvnt you don't like and get all your freedom taken away. None of this is good.
> 
> ...


Exactly. People with no experience of it seem to have a lot of opions on it lol.


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

squatthis said:


> Are you trying to say that having been caught committing a crime means someone is not a contributor to the country? I think you have a narrow mind and a lot of built up ignorance.


I'll put money on it that the VAST majority of people in prison are there because they are not a useful member of society, keyword VAST not ALL,

There's a lot of people who haven't been to prison that are wasters aswell your just being defensive over it,

For example if I smashed some bodies head in because I felt they deserve it I could end up in prison, but I've contributed more than most of the people on my road in taxes etc in their whole life yet never been inside,

I still think it's not harsh enough regardless as the first thing people who have should be saying when they come out is '**** going back there it's the worst place ever' and then think twice before they nick a TV from tesco lol


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

b0t13 said:


> I'll put money on it that the VAST majority of people in prison are there because they are not a useful member of society, keyword VAST not ALL,
> 
> There's a lot of people who haven't been to prison that are wasters aswell your just being defensive over it,
> 
> ...


If you've never been to prison you don't know what it's actually like.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

squatthis said:


> You have no clue. Go away.
> 
> No-one actually prefers it in prison, the food is sh!t, the gym access is limited, you spend 18 hours a day in a sh!tty cell with some cvnt you don't like and get all your freedom taken away. None of this is good.
> 
> ...


Makes me laugh when people say it's nice in there. The one I was in you were locked up 23 hours a day unless you had a job or education. Cockroaches everywhere. Food was nasty unless you worked in the kitchen. In 8 months I never had a chance to use the gym. You share a cell with someone and having a toilet where you sleep and eat.

I don't know anyone who would rather be inside and if there is someone who says that their life must be pretty bad.


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

FelonE said:


> Let's hope you never go to prison for something you didn't do or something you didn't mean to do, it's easy done.


Hey and guess what, by November 1st, the EU's QMV (Qualified Majority Voting) will be fully in place which will override all UK laws. EU's Corpus juris -no trial by jury and guilty until proven innocent will mean many innocent people will be held without evidence or wrongly convicted and jailed.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

My best mate's stepdad is a prison warden. He reckons steroid use is rife in his beat and the guards just turn a blind eye. He even reckons someone died of a steroid overdose :lol: Nothing to do with the heroin also found in his cell then?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

GCMAX said:


> Hey and guess what, by November 1st, the EU's QMV (Qualified Majority Voting) will be fully in place which will override all UK laws. EU's Corpus juris -no trial by jury and guilty until proven innocent will mean many innocent people will be held without evidence or wrongly convicted and jailed.


It already happens. I spent 8 months in prison for them to turn up to court without any evidence, well things came up that helped me. I know several people who were inside with me who were found not guilty.


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## Chronic (Feb 5, 2015)

I was in brinsford at 19 (22 now), at least half of the wing were taking something. Mostly Pinkies (don't have a clue what they were) and nap 50s were quite common too.

I spent 14 months there and honestly didnt hear about PCT until I started looking about on forums when I got out.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Prisons should focus on making sure prisoners won't commit crime again once they get out, not making their life sh1t while they're in there. They're already being punished by being locked up, which stops them committing more crime on the outside as well. So while they're in there, make them take courses and get qualifications that will help them to get a job once they get out. If some of the prisoners are truly hopeless cases who refuse to take any courses or keep acting like d1ckeads then keep them locked up.


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

seandog69 said:


> yes, but he is the only member im aware of that has been inside a few times, although he may not have used he may have knowledge of goings on
> 
> @Verno, you're a screw (scum) arent you?


Not quite mate, work in mental health units :lol:


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## seandog69 (Mar 8, 2013)

Verno said:


> Not quite mate, work in mental health units :lol:


ah my bad, its ok, youre still scum to me xox


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

seandog69 said:


> ah my bad, its ok, youre still scum to me xox


Aww cheers babe.

Forensic so mostly from prisons.


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> It already happens. I spent 8 months in prison for them to turn up to court without any evidence, well things came up that helped me. I know several people who were inside with me who were found not guilty.


That is totally fcuked up, authority shouldn't have that kind of power in this country as it's against our laws. This country is doomed if we continue this way.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

GCMAX said:


> That is totally fcuked up, authority shouldn't have that kind of power in this country as it's against our laws. This country is doomed if we continue this way.


I hadn't been in any trouble before either. Took me for 8 months and released me without a job (lost it while in prison) and homeless without any help. lol

The whole experience opened my eyes to how the police and courts work.

As for steroids. There was orals everywhere but don't think there were any injectable steroids and no one who I knew did it even knew what PCT was.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> I hadn't been in any trouble before either. Took me for 8 months and released me without a job (lost it while in prison) and homeless without any help. lol
> 
> The whole experience opened my eyes to how the police and courts work.
> 
> As for steroids. There was orals everywhere but don't think there were any injectable steroids and no one who I knew did it even knew what PCT was.


NO disrepect but i strongly believe unless there was substantial evidence, you can't be locked up without being proved somewhat guilty.

Except terrorism charges i would say.

I could be very wrong, but what would be the point of trial + evidence if they could just lock you up anyway?

OUt of interest what did they claim you had done?

If you had been found innocent and you'd lost your job i'm sure you could have sued the police force?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> NO disrepect but i strongly believe unless there was substantial evidence, you can't be locked up without being proved somewhat guilty.
> 
> Except terrorism charges i would say.
> 
> ...


Have you not heard of people being on remand?

They can lock you up on remand until your trail,which in my case was 8 months. This isn't uncommon. On a BBC article they said "12,000 people are remanded in prison who are later found not guilty of the charges against them."

You don't get compensation for time spent on remand. The police wouldn't spend a fortune paying compensation otherwise.

I was charged with GBH. This was lowered to ABH a couple of months later. I ended up going to trail for robbery (phone and a few quid)

The girl that accused me had previously falsely accused 2 different people. One of rape and another of kidnapping her. There wasn't any CCTV other than us talking. She didn't have any medical treatment and didn't go to the police for 3 days later (didn't give police a statement until 11 days later). Police didn't take any photos off any injuries, all they had was a photo she took on her phone of her with red eyes, no one knew when it was taken and it could have been caused by many things. When they looked at location of our phones mine went a different direction to hers.

Trail lasted 1 hour before they said they weren't offering any evidence.


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## naturalun (Mar 21, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> Have you not heard of people being on remand?
> 
> They can lock you up on remand until your trail,which in my case was 8 months. This isn't uncommon. On a BBC article they said "12,000 people are remanded in prison who are later found not guilty of the charges against them."
> 
> ...


That's proper bang out of order. Can't you get a lawyer and Sue? Wasted 8 months of your life... Potential earnings of £8000 and that's min wage really. Fken bullsh1t that I'd be raging mate. I'd definitely bare a huge grudge for the justice system, even though justice was served it'd be all too late. My apologies as a fellow human.


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

Smitch said:


> J Star Carr?
> 
> He's probably still inside. :laugh:


Didn't he bulk on nothing but fast food? I remember that guy.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> Have you not heard of people being on remand?
> 
> They can lock you up on remand until your trail,which in my case was 8 months. This isn't uncommon. On a BBC article they said "12,000 people are remanded in prison who are later found not guilty of the charges against them."
> 
> ...


thanks for explaining - honestly no lol i don't know anyone that's ever really been in trouble so know bugger all about the justice system.

I would strongly agree that you must be able to sue her at the least for damages.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Once upon a time a prison was a horrible place where bad people went to be punished... what happend?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> NO disrepect but i strongly believe unless there was substantial evidence, you can't be locked up without being proved somewhat guilty.
> 
> Except terrorism charges i would say.
> 
> ...


You can be remanded on minimal evidence, get found not guilty and get out but whilst on remand you could lose everything and get out with nothing.


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## meateon (Jan 14, 2015)

orals inside are ready available, injectables arent too easy to get hold of though. Alot of big lads inside doing oral cycles


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

meateon said:


> *orals inside are ready available*, injectables arent too easy to get hold of though. Alot of big lads inside doing oral cycles


lol


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

naturalun said:


> That's proper bang out of order. Can't you get a lawyer and Sue? Wasted 8 months of your life... Potential earnings of £8000 and that's min wage really. Fken bullsh1t that I'd be raging mate. I'd definitely bare a huge grudge for the justice system, even though justice was served it'd be all too late. My apologies as a fellow human.


I thought I was going to get a big pay out. When I spoke to my legal team they said I won't be able to as the police legally arrested me (there was an allegation and I admitted being there) and it was the court that decided I should be remanded. I could sue her but she doesn't have any money and I would have to prove she made it up which is impossible.

We only found out about her previous false claims on the day of the trial. The police didn't include it in the report and said they missed it out by mistake. This girl had 44 convictions and they miss out the 2 most important things but included all the minor stuff.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

harrison180 said:


> Once upon a time a prison was a horrible place where bad people went to be punished... what happend?


Human rights happened, it became more expensive to put people in prison so the powers that be decided they needed to rehabilitate cons so they didn't go back to prison and cost the taxpayer more money. Well, they haven't got it quite right yet, it seems they care about the prisoners human rights but can't get them to stop getting locked up over and over again.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> thanks for explaining - honestly no lol i don't know anyone that's ever really been in trouble so know bugger all about the justice system.
> 
> I would strongly agree that you must be able to sue her at the least for damages.


I didn't know anything about the justice system either before all this. Most people assume they can't lock you up without strong evidence.


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> I thought I was going to get a big pay out. When I spoke to my legal team they said I won't be able to as the police legally arrested me (there was an allegation and I admitted being there) and it was the court that decided I should be remanded. I could sue her but she doesn't have any money and I would have to prove she made it up which is impossible.
> 
> We only found out about her previous false claims on the day of the trial. *The police didn't include it in the report and said they missed it out by mistake*. This girl had 44 convictions and they miss out the 2 most important things but included all the minor stuff.


This is one of the few circumstances in which you would be entitled to compensation from the police.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Man Like What said:


> This is one of the few circumstances in which you would be entitled to compensation from the police.


I complained to the police complaint commission about it. They replied that some barristers said it wouldn't have made any difference and I would have been remanded anyway. Maybe I should have pushed it more.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

EpicSquats said:


> Human rights happened, it became more expensive to put people in prison so the powers that be decided they needed to rehabilitate cons so they didn't go back to prison and cost the taxpayer more money. Well, they haven't got it quite right yet, it seems they care about the prisoners human rights but can't get them to stop getting locked up over and over again.


Ropes cheap at most builders merchants.

Soon as another human has been caused mental or physical hurt by another human in a criminal way their human rights should stop there and then. I bet burglary numbers would drop out of fear of breaking into a mans house who is waiting to rip someone apart.

Won't cost the tax payer a penny either. You should only get one 2nd chance and that's only on small crimes


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

@barsnack was inside for a good few years, but he was in a special prison, I don't want to give specifics of what he was in for but it was related to sex offences, so his experience may have been a lot different


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

harrison180 said:


> Ropes cheap at most builders merchants.
> 
> *Soon as another human has been caused mental or physical hurt by another human in a criminal way their human rights should stop there and then*. I bet burglary numbers would drop out of fear of breaking into a mans house who is waiting to rip someone apart.
> 
> Won't cost the tax payer a penny either. You should only get one 2nd chance and that's only on small crimes


You mean like assaulting someone in the work place?


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Man Like What said:


> You mean like assaulting someone in the work place?


Hahaha. I guess it could if you want


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Sams said:


> @barsnack was inside for a good few years, but he was in a special prison, I don't want to give specifics of what he was in for but it was related to child sex offences, so his experience may have been a lot different


Bit harsh mate lol. Somethings shouldn't be joked about


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> Bit harsh mate lol. Somethings shouldn't be joked about


I wish all he did was joke about it


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

vtec_yo said:


> Didn't he bulk on nothing but fast food? I remember that guy.


Yeah, he did a bulk on purely stuff he could buy out and about, pizza, burgers etc, good size and condition too.

And he was one strong fvcker as well,


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2015)

Call me small minded but if you're getting sent to prison you've committed a crime.

9 times out of 10 it'll probably be an assault of some description in which your brief and yourself will try and blame the steroids.

So these guys should provided a pct when it's them very bell ends giving aas a bad name.

Fcuk 'em let them get t1ts.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Spawn of Haney said:


> Call me small minded but if you're getting sent to prison you've committed a crime.
> 
> 9 times out of 10 it'll probably be an assault of some description in which your brief and yourself will try and blame the steroids.
> 
> ...


Not small minded,just very ignorant.


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## Varenagan (Sep 11, 2014)

Spawn of Haney said:


> Call me small minded but if you're getting sent to prison you've committed a crime.
> 
> 9 times out of 10 it'll probably be an assault of some description in which your brief and yourself will try and blame the steroids.
> 
> ...


Not everybody who goes to prison has committed a crime, people can get framed for lots of things. People can do things by accident. If you're driving down the motorway and you hit a child and kill them then go to jail, are you a criminal? No, you're an innocent person who just got royally fvcked by life. If someone kicks someones head in and leaves no fingerprints but your DNA is on the scene then you go down for it, are you guilty? No.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> no this is to prove support services need improving if your lifted off the street mid a high cycle and remanded no access to pct and having to stop cold that can seriously **** you up. wouldnt it better to be able to get pct support inside. heroin addicts fet support why shouldnt steroud users but with some sort of evidence on the number of users I cant raise funding to out services in place im already do8ng some things with the scottish service but thry are quite forward thinking with all this.
> 
> plus guys are running bad cycles due to poor availability. surely its better to educate them so they have at least the information thst allows them to make an educsted discission


i would be surprised if you got funding for this , services within prisons are lacking in multiple areas (especially mental health) - good luck with it , i would remove the 'prison' aspect as much as possible and concentrate on getting together any recognised *UK* medical evidence to present to your funding panels to prove that PCT support is needed as a whole rather than just because someone is in prison,

as you know there is little to non available in the UK - if there was then anyone stopping or finishing a cycle could walk into their GP's and demand a PCT be put together for them - the same way that (as you have already mentioned) heroin addicts can get free opiate alternatives.

personally i would start out by calling/emailing all the private endo's in the UK that provide TRT treatment and asking for their personal opinions - if you could get a specialist GP /endo/uro behind you it would give you the best chance of putting together any information that would be recognised. (simply explain what you are trying to do to them in a letter and shoot out the emails asking for advise and any information they know of that would help you )

*you can try any endo's /uro's /GP's but i say those that specialise in TRT external to the NHS as they are generally more flexible and forward thinking -getting one on board to your cause would make a large difference.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

aqualung said:


> i would be surprised if you got funding for this , services within prisons are lacking in multiple areas (especially mental health) - good luck with it , i would remove the 'prison' aspect as much as possible and concentrate on getting together any recognised *UK* medical evidence to present to your funding panels to prove that PCT support is needed as a whole rather than just because someone is in prison,
> 
> as you know there is little to non available in the UK - if there was then anyone stopping or finishing a cycle could walk into their GP's and demand a PCT be put together for them - the same way that (as you have already mentioned) heroin addicts can get free opiate alternatives.
> 
> ...


I wouldnt be surprised if this gets off the ground, there are far more ridiculous schemes going.

Gastric band surgery on the NHS only available to people of a certain weight, in other words you have to get fat enough to qualify.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I wouldnt be surprised if this gets off the ground, there are far more ridiculous schemes going.
> 
> Gastric band surgery on the NHS only available to people of a certain weight, in other words you have to get fat enough to qualify.


Sweet, dirty bulk and cut with a gastric band.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

aqualung said:


> i would be surprised if you got funding for this , services within prisons are lacking in multiple areas (especially mental health) - good luck with it , i would remove the 'prison' aspect as much as possible and concentrate on getting together any recognised *UK* medical evidence to present to your funding panels to prove that PCT support is needed as a whole rather than just because someone is in prison,
> 
> as you know there is little to non available in the UK - if there was then anyone stopping or finishing a cycle could walk into their GP's and demand a PCT be put together for them - the same way that (as you have already mentioned) heroin addicts can get free opiate alternatives.
> 
> ...


the funding is there just need to prove need


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> the funding is there just need to prove need


How much evidence is there that PCT actually has any benefit at all?


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> the funding is there just need to prove need


some sort of funding is available for almost anything , proving you need it is the problem - as i stated , your best line of proof (if any) would come from a recognised/registered medical professional.


----------



## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> no this is to prove support services need improving if your lifted off the street mid a high cycle and remanded no access to pct and having to stop cold that can seriously **** you up. wouldnt it better to be able to get pct support inside. heroin addicts fet support why shouldnt steroud users but with some sort of evidence on the number of users I cant raise funding to out services in place im already do8ng some things with the scottish service but thry are quite forward thinking with all this.
> 
> plus guys are running bad cycles due to poor availability. surely its better to educate them so they have at least the information thst allows them to make an educsted discission


Oh my lord u cannot be serious????

If ur lifted off the street mid a high cycle remanded and no access to pct.....Hard luck ...u should have thought about it before right? Don't get me wrong I'm all for education in prison but I'd rather see them learn to read and write than learn about cycles...jeez iv never heard such nonesense. Hard core drug users have an addiction they get weened off and encouraged to come off in the future. Comparing that to a cycle is ridiculous and u want to educate them on how to stack properly...lol

Everyone falls off the rails at some point and maybe they do it more than once..but there comes a time when u have to be accountable and if u can't then suffer the consequences and at the moment prison as it stands is not a consequence..pouring money into a crazy scheme that allows for prisoners to learn how to get hench ..properly won't help...jeez man why don't u apply for funding to send in personal trainers and nutritionists while ur at it. :death:


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Varenagan said:


> Not everybody who goes to prison has committed a crime, people can get framed for lots of things. People can do things by accident. If you're driving down the motorway and you hit a child and kill them then go to jail, are you a criminal? No, you're an innocent person who just got royally fvcked by life. If someone kicks someones head in and leaves no fingerprints but your DNA is on the scene then you go down for it, are you guilty? No.


U hit a child whilst driving u kill them...not ur fault u got ****ed by life!!! Lol...UKM is becoming more comical by the min.

Prisoners ALWAYS say they didn't it wasn't not my fault it's coz my dad beat me she made me he hit me first..and now life is getting in on the blame game.,,,JOKERRRRRR


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Oh my lord u cannot be serious????
> 
> If ur lifted off the street mid a high cycle remanded and no access to pct.....Hard luck ...u should have thought about it before right? Don't get me wrong I'm all for education in prison but I'd rather see them learn to read and write than learn about cycles...jeez iv never heard such nonesense. Hard core drug users have an addiction they get weened off and encouraged to come off in the future. Comparing that to a cycle is ridiculous and u want to educate them on how to stack properly...lol
> 
> Everyone falls off the rails at some point and maybe they do it more than once..but there comes a time when u have to be accountable and if u can't then suffer the consequences and at the moment prison as it stands is not a consequence..pouring money into a crazy scheme that allows for prisoners to learn how to get hench ..properly won't help...jeez man why don't u apply for funding to send in personal trainers and nutritionists while ur at it. :death:


I think the point hes making is that anyone on any type of medication currently on remand gets that medication maintained.

He seems to be of the opinion that should include self administration of steroids.


----------



## AlexB18 (Dec 10, 2013)

FelonE said:


> If you've never been to prison you don't know what it's actually like.


Only experience ive even remotely got of prison is what my brother told me when he was banged up, in his own words he says its "****ing soul destroying" no one else i know whos been int nick have ever said its cushy either so dunno where people get this idea its a walk in the park tbh.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

aqualung said:


> some sort of funding is available for almost anything , proving you need it is the problem - as i stated , your best line of proof (if any) would come from a recognised/registered medical professional.


how would a medical professional shed any light on the number of users in a prison. ? the thing is your all getting hung up on pct and the main area thst would be funded would be education

if a prison decided to offer pct it would be done through the nhs budget not this and like most rehab programs in prison you would have to qualify

it most definitely wouldn't be a case of im on gear give me pct .

in reality I very much doubt the pct would become available but the crazy thing is if you have androgenic shutdown youd qualify for medical treatment in prison or not.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> How much evidence is there that PCT actually has any benefit at all?


several thousand documented cases


----------



## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> Oh my lord u cannot be serious????
> 
> If ur lifted off the street mid a high cycle remanded and no access to pct.....Hard luck ...u should have thought about it before right? Don't get me wrong I'm all for education in prison but I'd rather see them learn to read and write than learn about cycles...jeez iv never heard such nonesense. Hard core drug users have an addiction they get weened off and encouraged to come off in the future. Comparing that to a cycle is ridiculous and u want to educate them on how to stack properly...lol
> 
> Everyone falls off the rails at some point and maybe they do it more than once..but there comes a time when u have to be accountable and if u can't then suffer the consequences and at the moment prison as it stands is not a consequence..pouring money into a crazy scheme that allows for prisoners to learn how to get hench ..properly won't help...jeez man why don't u apply for funding to send in personal trainers and nutritionists while ur at it. :death:


so you dont think harm reduction education on steroid use teaching of the dangers and discouraging use within the prison system is a good thing?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> several thousand documented cases


Are you going to write that in your evidence submission to the Home Office medical board?

I suspect they may be looking for a something with a little more weight.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> so you dont think harm reduction education on steroid use teaching of the dangers and discouraging use within the prison system is a good thing?


After seeing your draw full of gear I dont think you are a good advocate for sensible usage.


----------



## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> I think the point hes making is that anyone on any type of medication currently on remand gets that medication maintained.
> 
> He seems to be of the opinion that should include self administration of steroids.


the aim is more education the pct thing is unlikely to be honest


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> the aim is more education the pct thing is unlikely to be honest


I think the PCT had more chance of success than "education"

Education on drugs in prisons is more akin to discourage use, not encourage sensible use.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> After seeing your draw full of gear I dont think you are a good advocate for sensible usage.


wtf you have no idea what my presentations are like . id rather hear from someone who's been there and done it and knows what its like backed up with scientific research than a book worm whos never walked the walk


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> I think the point hes making is that anyone on any type of medication currently on remand gets that medication maintained.
> 
> He seems to be of the opinion that should include self administration of steroids.


He seems to be deluded


----------



## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> I think the PCT had more chance of success than "education"


the oct is going to require a full prison board policy review something im mak8ng in roads with in the scottish system but they seem to be a bit more open minded


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> so you dont think harm reduction education on steroid use teaching of the dangers and discouraging use within the prison system is a good thing?


No I do not....I think we should be teaching other more important things...


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> wtf you have no idea what my presentations are like . id rather hear from someone who's been there and done it and knows what its like backed up with scientific research than a book worm whos never walked the walk


Someone who has been there and done it and is still doing it wrong.

They would likely listen to someone who looks healthy and fit and who can demonstrate that the drugs he are using are not killing him.

All you need to do to discourage use is to show picures of yourself now and 3 years ago.


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> U hit a child whilst driving u kill them...not ur fault u got ****ed by life!!! Lol...UKM is becoming more comical by the min.
> 
> Prisoners ALWAYS say they didn't it wasn't not my fault it's coz my dad beat me she made me he hit me first..and now life is getting in on the blame game.,,,JOKERRRRRR


How i see situations like this, is we are all adults and we all have choices, we are all responsible for ourselves and our own actions. If you dont like the consequences then take them into consideration before commiting a crime/breaking the law etc. Its easy to blame your past, ie parents were drunks, parents abused me etc, because you had a bad start in life and a bad upbringing thats no reason to be cvnt as an adult.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Pinky said:


> How i see situations like this, is we are all adults and we all have choices, we are all responsible for ourselves and our own actions. If you dont like the consequences then take them into consideration before commiting a crime/breaking the law etc. Its easy to blame your past, ie parents were drunks, parents abused me etc, because you had a bad start in life and a bad upbringing thats no reason to be cvnt as an adult.


I agree...I also appreciate sometimes it might be just abit more complex ..but still the outcome is ur here u have a life make a choice be responsible...or don't but if u don't ...don't friggin ask to have privileges such as steroids when ur in prison..the answer is no sweet cheeks :lol:


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Oh my lord u cannot be serious????
> 
> *If ur lifted off the street mid a high cycle remanded and no access to pct.....Hard luck ...u should have thought about it before right?* Don't get me wrong I'm all for education in prison but I'd rather see them learn to read and write than learn about cycles...jeez iv never heard such nonesense. Hard core drug users have an addiction they get weened off and encouraged to come off in the future. Comparing that to a cycle is ridiculous and u want to educate them on how to stack properly...lol
> 
> Everyone falls off the rails at some point and maybe they do it more than once..but there comes a time when u have to be accountable and if u can't then suffer the consequences and at the moment prison as it stands is not a consequence..pouring money into a crazy scheme that allows for prisoners to learn how to get hench ..properly won't help...jeez man why don't u apply for funding to send in personal trainers and nutritionists while ur at it. :death:


Should have thought about that before? If you're on remand you haven't been found guilty of anything yet and might not have done anything. Still innocent at this point.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> Someone who has been there and done it and is still doing it wrong.
> 
> They would likely listen to someone who looks healthy and fit and who can demonstrate that the drugs he are using are not killing him.
> 
> All you need to do to discourage use is to show picures of yourself now and 3 years ago.


im not sure why im bothering replying to this im well aware of how narrow minded arrogant and mis informed you are so ill leave you too your opinion why you have turned this personal is beyond me . but I suppose it just shows you for the type of person you are.

I post trying to get an accurate indication of usage within prisons and apart from the obvious scum bags dont deserve **** comments which I expected your the only person that's decided to have a dig at me.

whats up didnt you get enough attention when your were little or is it just that you cant handle that i actually do quite well at what I do.

whatever it is im not going to get anymore useful information from this thread and ive had quite a few pms so got some good things to start working with.

so ill be off and you can call me every name you want

have fun


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## FGT (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm sure the prison officers would rather monitor pepole with boobies and crying on each other's shoulders from high E & low test, than have everyone going to a steroid workshop to help educate them on how to make the same wrong decisions in a given situation but with super strength test levels too!!


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

It's not always as black and white as that.

I remember a lad, he was driving home at night on some country lanes so no street lights. Come to a junction. Stopped. Saw it was clear to go and pulled out. What he missed was the cyclist wearing all black with no lights on his bike so ni on invisible who rode into his wing flew over the bonnet and broke his neck. Dead.

That guy got put inside on remand, lost his job and was there for several months before finally getting out.

That could happen to any one of us.

So your a law abiding citizen (mostly) and you use anabolics. Your mid or end cycle and that happens and you get banged up. Potential you could end up being completely shut down in a rite mess and who's fault is it? Yours for not having night time vision or the idiot with no lights on his bike wearing black in the middle of the night?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

kniterider said:


> It's not always as black and white as that.
> 
> I remember a lad, he was driving home at night on some country lanes so no street lights. Come to a junction. Stopped. Saw it was clear to go and pulled out. What he missed was the cyclist wearing all black with no lights on his bike so ni on invisible who rode into his wing flew over the bonnet and broke his neck. Dead.
> 
> ...


Happens all the time.

Most people have no idea how many people are put on remand before being released.


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## Kurg (Mar 23, 2015)

Patch-Adams said:


> Happens all the time.
> 
> Most people have no idea how many people get put on remand before being released.


Can be a lottery though. Was up before judge on video link for Section 18.. my brief said 10% chance bail but judge gave it to me.. maybe he got a shag from missus night before! lol


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## FGT (Jun 2, 2008)

I fully understand the fact that other drug users get help whilst in prison with their substance addiction, so that lays groung for ped users to be allowed the same help.

Education in prison in my eyes shouldn't be on subjects like steroid use are there not enough positive on the body and mind just through exercise alone????


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Kurg said:


> Can be a lottery though. Was up before judge on video link for Section 18.. my brief said 10% chance bail but judge gave it to me.. maybe he got a shag from missus night before! lol


  You're right it's a lottery. There was someone who was on the same charge as me (section 18) who had been in trouble before and they had strong evidence that he did it but he was given bail until his trial (he ended up pleading guilty before his trial). I was so ****ed off when he told me that.


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## Kurg (Mar 23, 2015)

He must have pleaded to a section 20? which is what mine got dropped to.. I pleaded got 12 mths did 6. Was looking at a 6 long for the sec18.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Sams said:


> @barsnack was inside for a good few years, but he was in a special prison, I don't want to give specifics of what he was in for but it was related to sex offences, so his experience may have been a lot different


Prison was hard mate...that's where I caught HIV....**** craic.....Oh forgot, you remember we shared that needle last week....best get checked


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## killamanjaro (Dec 30, 2013)

banzi said:


> Someone who has been there and done it and is still doing it wrong.
> 
> They would likely listen to someone who looks healthy and fit and who can demonstrate that the drugs he are using are not killing him.
> 
> All you need to do to discourage use is to show picures of yourself now and 3 years ago.


My exact thoughts


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

killamanjaro said:


> My exact thoughts


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

Who's that? :lol:


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

@Therealbigbear - I'm in for helping with this mate. I'll email you separately to discuss.

Key things that spring to mind (based on the training i've delivered on the subject in prisons) - PCT is complete non-starter. Won't happen. Not the way the system is set up.

Education for prisoners in order to tackle the issue - yes..that's a possibility. But some prisons will be resistant because it means admitting they have an issue. Although they will happily train the staff.

There's possibilities here - demonstrating need is going to be tricky but possibly achievable.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kniterider said:


> Who's that?


thats a fat me


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

Bet you could shift some iron


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kniterider said:


> Bet you could shift some iron


ive been pretfy much lsid up with trapped nerves since sept been managing to do some training but nothing particularly hard I kept my food clean but high trying to minimise size loss but let myself get too fat ( not thst im lean anyway ) ive still got nerve issues but managing to do some effective training now so have started to deal with the chub.this is where I was before the nerve problems
View attachment 168447


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> im not sure why im bothering replying to this im well aware of how narrow minded arrogant and mis informed you are so ill leave you too your opinion why you have turned this personal is beyond me . but I suppose it just shows you for the type of person you are.
> 
> *I post trying to get an accurate indication of usage within prisons *and apart from the obvious scum bags dont deserve **** comments which I expected your the only person that's decided to have a dig at me.
> 
> ...


Why dont you write to the home office and ask them?

No, no you really dont, you are possibley the worst advert for steroid usage I have seen of late.

Your video of you injecting and putting your fingers all over the needles is cringeworthy.

If you want to set yourself up as some kind of expert in the subject you should expect criticisms.


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

Beast mate. Where you from?


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> how would a medical professional shed any light on the number of users in a prison. ? the thing is your all getting hung up on pct and the main area thst would be funded would be education
> 
> if a prison decided to offer pct it would be done through the nhs budget not this and like most rehab programs in prison you would have to qualify
> 
> ...


so how exactly are you going to prove you need funding ? to be able to get funding approved you need to be able to show the area where it is needed , you cannot say that AAS are needed in prison or any of the ancillary's that go with AAS use are needed unless you can medically prove so , the only way to do this is via PCT or TRT - as TRT is a different thing entirely and would come under prescribed medication that leaves PCT use tied in with AAS use as your only route.

im not sure what you mean by 'education' , what are you going to educate them in? AAS and PCT meds they cant get prescribed in prison? or how to do a cycle correctly in prison using drugs obtained illegally while inside?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Some people on here who are very opinionated on people going to prison etc but obviously haven't a clue about under which circumstances you can go there.

All this 'If you choose to do the crime' bullsh1t. What about the people that are remanded on little evidence and then released when found not guilty?

Anybody on this forum could end up in jail,you don't need to be a criminal.

People spouting off on subjects they know nothing about as always.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

THe only way it would work really...would be to demonstrate there is an issue; (especially an issue with first time use if possible) - the prisons already know this but how well evidenced it is, is another matter.

Having established there is an issue...and that standard protocols for stopping stuff coming in aren't working...you offer a further approach whereby inmates are given harm reduction information; especially around the use of injecting equipment and the realities of outcomes on steroid cycles. Look at motivators for use, discuss alternative approaches etc etc.

In essence; trying to lead newbies away from prison use. Obviously someone who's just gone in for 10+ isn't likely to care; but someone in for say..a year...could possibly be persuaded to leave it until they're out at the very least. After all = prison is a crappy environment to do it in given the importance of diet and the almost total lack of control people will have over that.

So the "need" is........people are doing this, there are potential health issues there....we need to address that.

i deliver training to prison staff and I know a couple of prisons that would benefit from some HR advice to inmates. It'll be a limited field but it's better than ignoring it - especially as anecdotally there are now more syringes showing up in searches.


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Some people on here who are very opinionated on people going to prison etc but obviously haven't a clue about under which circumstances you can go there.
> 
> All this 'If you choose to do the crime' bullsh1t. What about the people that are remanded on little evidence and then released when found not guilty?
> 
> ...


Everyone has a general right of bail under s4 of the Bail Act and can only be held in remand where there is sufficient evidence and a strong likelihood of successful prosecution. It'll be over an indictable offence otherwise it'd be dealt with by magistrates.

It's not like innocent people are likely to be locked up. And if it happens it was due to mistake by police and the person was innocent, compensation is available in such circumstances (although doesn't make it right).

Those that are remanded and then found not guilty probably weren't innocent in the vast majority of cases anyway...they just happened to be found not guilty.

People being held on remand isn't something that's used lightly. And it's extremely rare that someone truly innocent is held on it.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Man Like What said:


> Everyone has a general right of bail under s4 of the Bail Act and can only be held in remand where there is suffocent evidence and a strong likelihood of successful prosecution. It'll be over an indictable offence otherwise it'd be dealt with by magistrates.
> 
> It's not like innocent people are likely to be locked up. And if it happens it was due to mistake by police and the person was innocent, compensation is available in such circumstances (although doesn't make it right).
> 
> ...


Have you been to prison? I've personally spent 6 months on remand for something I definitely did not do. Girl I was with at the time rung the police and said I punched her(I didn't and never had). I was arrested,she went to hospital and got checked out for any evidence of assault(there was not a mark on her). I was remanded for 6 months awaiting trial. Day of the trial came and my solicitor came downstairs(court cells) and said she'd turned up and admitted she'd lied and didn't think it'd go that far.

6 months inside for something I didn't do,what happened to her for lying? fvck all.

Things aren't as black and white as some people believe. Unless you have experience of it you don't know.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Therealbigbear said:


> ive been pretfy much lsid up with trapped nerves since sept been managing to do some training but nothing particularly hard I kept my food clean but high trying to minimise size loss but let myself get too fat ( not thst im lean anyway ) ive still got nerve issues but managing to do some effective training now so have started to deal with the chub.this is where I was before the nerve problems
> View attachment 168447


You dont look that much different in that photo TBH.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Have you been to prison? I've personally spent 6 months on remand for something I definitely did not do. Girl I was with at the time rung the police and said I punched her(I didn't and never had). I was arrested,she went to hospital and got checked out for any evidence of assault(there was not a mark on her). I was remanded for 6 months awaiting trial. Day of the trial came and my solicitor came downstairs(court cells) and said she'd turned up and admitted she'd lied and didn't think it'd go that far.
> 
> 6 months inside for something I didn't do,what happened to her for lying? fvck all.
> 
> Things aren't as black and white as some people believe. Unless you have experience of it you don't know.


Did you have previous before this incident?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> Did you have previous before this incident?


Never of domestic violence no.

When I was being interviewed I told him she's an evil bitter cvnt who's trying to stitch me up. He even agreed there's no evidence of me touching her and said but they've got to follow procedure.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

There was a case a couple of years ago in Oxford where this man and woman stitched this bloke up by falsely saying ge raped the girl. They were blackmailing him about it for money. He spent over a year on remand for rape,which would be a horrifying thing to be falsely accused of. The couple got found guilty of it. The mans life got destroyed, he got terrorised along with his family and he was innocent.

I bet the people on here saying if you were innocent you wouldn't go to jail have never been to prison and probably have no real life experience of it all.

The people that have been to prison will know about the fvcked up sh1t that goes on


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Have you been to prison? I've personally spent 6 months on remand for something I definitely did not do. Girl I was with at the time rung the police and said I punched her(I didn't and never had). I was arrested,she went to hospital and got checked out for any evidence of assault(there was not a mark on her). I was remanded for 6 months awaiting trial. Day of the trial came and my solicitor came downstairs(court cells) and said she'd turned up and admitted she'd lied and didn't think it'd go that far.
> 
> 6 months inside for something I didn't do,what happened to her for lying? fvck all.
> 
> Things aren't as black and white as some people believe. Unless you have experience of it you don't know.


Why is whether I've been to prison relevant to the discussion?

Fact is, remand isn't a decision that's taken lightly. Yes sometimes people are incorrectly held, but where it is down to a mistake in the system, such as being remanded with no evidence (like your situation) compensation is available.

If I'm not mistaken, you've also been convicted of GBH, so perhaps this worked against you in your situation?

Have a look through here if you can be bothered and you'll see the number of those held on remand and not convicted is infinitesimal.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/criminal-justice-statistics-quarterly-march-2013

No system is perfect, but unless and until a better and viable alternative is found, it'd do.

Personally, I'd have got a decent brief and asked on what evidence the police were even holding you on.


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Did you have previous before this incident?





FelonE said:


> Never of domestic violence no.
> 
> When I was being interviewed I told him she's an evil bitter cvnt who's trying to stitch me up. He even agreed there's no evidence of me touching her and said but they've got to follow procedure.


Not of domestic violence...but other violent offices? You said you've done time for GBH previously. That'd do it.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Man Like What said:


> Why is whether I've been to prison relevant to the discussion?
> 
> Fact is, remand isn't a decision that's taken lightly. Yes sometimes prime are incorrectly held, but where it is down to a mistake in the system, such as being remanded with no evidence (like your situation) compensation is available.
> 
> ...


I'd never committed gbh at that time.

I didn't say you having been to jail was relevant, was just asking if you had.

Have you?


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

Never been to prison and been arrested once. I plan on keeping it that way. Things like above must be a minority surely?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Man Like What said:


> Everyone has a general right of bail under s4 of the Bail Act and can only be held in remand where there is sufficient evidence and a strong likelihood of successful prosecution. It'll be over an indictable offence otherwise it'd be dealt with by magistrates.
> 
> It's not like innocent people are likely to be locked up. And if it happens it was due to mistake by police and the person was innocent, compensation is available in such circumstances (although doesn't make it right).
> 
> ...


It is not rare at all. You have no idea what you are talking about.

It happened to me and lots of other people I was in prison with. They had no evidence against me, none. At the stage where you get remanded the police don't even have much information. It's not until after you are remanded that they started checking phone records, checking DNA etc. They don't need much evidence to remand you. The reason I was remanded (I was told later) was because of the serious nature of the offence and I might run off.

You don't get compensation for time spent on remand.


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I'd never committed gbh at that time.
> 
> I didn't say you having been to jail was relevant, was just asking if you had.
> 
> Have you?


Oh right. Sorry dude, misunderstood you asking.

No I've not been inside. Don't intend on it either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the system is perfect, as I know it's far from it. But I can't see a better alternative that works in societies best interests either.


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> It is not rare at all. You have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> It happened to me and lots of other people I was in prison with. They had no evidence against me, none. At the stage where you get remanded the police don't even have much information. It's not until after you are remanded that they started checking phone records, checking DNA etc. They don't need much evidence to remand you. The reason I was remanded (I was told later) was because of the serious nature of the offence and I might run off.
> 
> You don't get compensation for time spent on remand.


https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/criminal-justice-statistics-quarterly-march-2013

^^^ It's pretty rare.

And compensation is available where a mistake has been made by the police.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Man Like What said:


> Why is whether I've been to prison relevant to the discussion?
> 
> Fact is, remand isn't a decision that's taken lightly. Yes sometimes people are incorrectly held, but where it is down to a mistake in the system, such as being remanded with no evidence (like your situation) compensation is available.
> 
> ...


I know I am repeating myself but there isn't compensation available.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

GPRIM said:


> Never been to prison and been arrested once. I plan on keeping it that way. Things like above must be a minority surely?


They are the minority but I'm just showing these high horse riding people that anything can happen, whether you've done it or not.

I fully admit I've wasted a lot of my life because of poor decision making and acting like a fvcking bellend but when you've actually done the crime then tough sh1t, I deserved it.

Going to prison for something you genuinely haven't done is very hard.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Man Like What said:


> https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/criminal-justice-statistics-quarterly-march-2013
> 
> ^^^ It's pretty rare.
> 
> And compensation is available where a mistake has been made by the police.


From that link

"Of those remanded in custody at the Crown Court, 74% were convicted and sentenced to immediate custody."

Like I said, its not rare.


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

I suppose its down to the force involved to. I even got a lift home from the station after. The police were nothing but polite when I got arrested. They didn't even cuff me.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

GPRIM said:


> I suppose its down to the force involved to. I even got a lift home from the station after. The police were nothing but polite when I got arrested. They didn't even cuff me.


Police were nice to me, got me food and drink (transported from Ipswich to Bristol) and didn't cuff me. Told me I would most likely be interviewed and realised that night. :laugh:


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## Man Like What (Oct 25, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> From that link
> 
> "Of those remanded in custody at the Crown Court, 74% were convicted and sentenced to immediate custody."
> 
> Like I said, its not rare.


Without wanting to sound patronising, read that that you've quoted properly mate.

Of those remanded in custody at the Crown Court (so of 100% of those remanded), 74% were convicted and sentenced to immediate custody (so found guilty there and then)


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Never of domestic violence no.
> 
> When I was being interviewed *I told him she's an evil bitter cvnt who's trying to stitch me up.* He even agreed there's no evidence of me touching her and said but they've got to follow procedure.


TBH that was enough to remand you for her protection.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Man Like What said:


> Oh right. Sorry dude, misunderstood you asking.
> 
> No I've not been inside. Don't intend on it either.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the system is perfect, as I know it's far from it. But I can't see a better alternative that works in societies best interests either.


I honestly hope you never go there too. It's a horrible place where horrible things happen. For e.g I saw a boy get his throat slit because he was black and the black lads didn't like that he chilled with the white lads(??) A lad got slashed ear to ear because apparently he was a grass....turns out he wasn't. Some lads beat the sh1t out of a lad with table legs to get his mobile phone.

When people say it's a holiday camp they're chatting sh1t. You've gotta be some kind of idiot to enjoy prison. When I was in Young Offenders I had a cell mate for about a week. He was only in for a couple of months but he couldn't handle it. He used to cry every night and I'd try and make him feel better and say that he's gotta be strong for his little baby and Mrs. I Went to the gym one morning,looked through my door flap and he'd hung himself. Not even 20yrs old with a new baby.

Some people on here seem to think I think I'm 'hard' for going to jail etc but that couldn't be further from the truth. I spent 9yrs in there altogether....that doesn't make me hard it makes me a fvcking idiot.

Believe me when I say the Police will and do lie. Innocent people get locked up and prison's sh1t.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> TBH that was enough to remand you for her protection.


Really? Don't be silly. They could of bailed me with conditions not to contact her. Me saying that is no kind of evidence at all.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Really? Don't be silly. They could of bailed me with conditions not to contact her. Me saying that is no kind of evidence at all.


OK, why do you think they remanded you?



> Why has my family member/partner been remanded into custody?
> 
> A prisoner may be held in custody leading up to a trial vary for a variety of reasons. The prosecution can indicate one or more of the following as reasons a person should not be released on bail:
> 
> ...


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> OK, why do you think they remanded you?


Because she lied,she's female and played the victim well.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Man Like What said:


> Without wanting to sound patronising, read that that you've quoted properly mate.
> 
> Of those remanded in custody at the Crown Court (so of 100% of those remanded), 74% were convicted and sentenced to immediate custody (so found guilty there and then)


It means of all those remanded 74% were convicted and then sentenced to immediate custody. They don't mean convicted there and then at the remand hearing.

View attachment 168465


On average 12000 a year on remand are found not guilty.

Again you don't get compensation for time spent on remand. This is true even if they turn up at court without evidence.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Because she lied,she's female and played the victim well.


Nope, thats not one of the requirements to remand someone

There is a list in the text I quoted, the police/CPS would need to demonstrate that you fell under at least one of those reasons.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I honestly hope you never go there too. It's a horrible place where horrible things happen. For e.g I saw a boy get his throat slit because he was black and the black lads didn't like that he chilled with the white lads(??) A lad got slashed ear to ear because apparently he was a grass....turns out he wasn't. Some lads beat the sh1t out of a lad with table legs to get his mobile phone.
> 
> When people say it's a holiday camp they're chatting sh1t. You've gotta be some kind of idiot to enjoy prison. When I was in Young Offenders I had a cell mate for about a week. He was only in for a couple of months but he couldn't handle it. He used to cry every night and I'd try and make him feel better and say that he's gotta be strong for his little baby and Mrs. I Went to the gym one morning,looked through my door flap and he'd hung himself. Not even 20yrs old with a new baby.
> 
> ...


During my interview the police should footage of me running and made it seem like it was after I was meant to attack her. I couldn't remember running at that time but it was 2 weeks after I was interviewed. At my trial it turned out it was 15 minutes before I had even met her. Lying bastards.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

When innocent men go to jail: miscarriages of justice in Britain - Telegraph


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> Nope, thats not one of the requirements to remand someone
> 
> There is a list in the text I quoted, the police/CPS would need to demonstrate that you fell under at least one of those reasons.


Do you have any real life experience of what you're talking about?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

banzi said:


> Nope, thats not one of the requirements to remand someone
> 
> There is a list in the text I quoted, the police/CPS would need to demonstrate that you fell under at least one of those reasons.


Just think how easy it is for the police to make an argument for these

She could have claimed he done it before so would likely commit further offences before the trial.

It was his girlfriend so they could claim he would likely interfere with the witness.

They could make any argument for not showing up to trial (mine was I wasn't local).

It's easy for them to remand you.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> Just think how easy it is for the police to make an argument for these
> 
> She could have claimed he done it before so would likely commit further offences before the trial.
> 
> ...


They just don't get it. They quote these things which are nothing like how it works in real life.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

To be fair I would have been like that before it happened.

The police made up some story that I was lost (I said I didn't know the road I was on as I didn't know Bristol) and attacked her under stress and might commit a serious offence again. She didn't even have any injuries other then red eyes and they had me on GBH section 18. lol They can make up anything.

I find it amazing anyone can claim it's rare for people to be found not guilty when they have been remanded.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> To be fair I would have been like that before it happened.
> 
> The police made up some story that I was lost (I said I didn't know the road I was on as I didn't know Bristol) and attacked her under stress and might commit a serious offence again. She didn't even have any injuries other then red eyes and they had me on GBH section 18. lol They can make up anything.
> 
> I find it amazing anyone can claim it's rare for people to be found not guilty when they have been remanded.


Yeah I think if I'd never been there or seen it I'd probably also be saying' This says they can only arrest you blah blah blah' when you know different it's hard trying to explain to people who don't.

Sort of reminds me of these paper qualified pt's who most don't have a clue in practise and half don't even lift. I'd rather listen to someone who's been there and done it in real life.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Yeah I think if I'd never been there or seen it I'd probably also be saying' This says they can only arrest you blah blah blah' when you know different it's hard trying to explain to people who don't.
> 
> Sort of reminds me of these paper qualified pt's who most don't have a clue in practise and half don't even lift. I'd rather listen to someone who's been there and done it in real life.


People believe everything they read. I once had an argument with someone who claimed you could go to the gym every day and all the sports you can play etc in Bristol. He had a link which listed all of what they claim prisoners can and he believed it. I never got to go to the gym and never played any sport other than pool (and that was rare) in my whole time there.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Why dont you two just get a cell?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FelonE said:


> When innocent men go to jail: miscarriages of justice in Britain - Telegraph


Can you imagine spending 25 years inside when you didn't do it?  He will get a massive payout but that's not much consolation.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> They just don't get it. They quote these things which are nothing like how it works in real life.


I have been there and I know what happens, Im just not blind enough to believe that its always a stitch up.

You gave them enough in your interview for them to build a case

Do you think the chances of remand increased or decreased when you said this?



FelonE said:


> When I was being interviewed I told him she's an evil bitter cvnt who's trying to stitch me up.


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## Chronic (Feb 5, 2015)

Patch-Adams said:


> People believe everything they read. I once had an argument with someone who claimed you could go to the gym every day and all the sports you can play etc in Bristol. He had a link which listed all of what they claim prisoners can and he believed it. I never got to go to the gym and never played any sport other than pool (and that was rare) in my whole time there.


IME you need be on enhanced to get more gym time, max I've ever been able to do was 5 days a week.

Although I've known people get gym access on induction wings.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> Can you imagine spending 25 years inside when you didn't do it?  *He will get a massive payout but that's not much consolation.*


earlier



Patch-Adams said:


> I know I am repeating myself but *there isn't compensation available.*


 :confused1:


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

banzi said:


> earlier
> 
> :confused1:


The guy that spent 25 years in prison was wrongly convicted. You get compensation for that (or should).

The other comment was about being on remand where you don't get compensation.


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

No he won't. Payouts for wrongful conviction have been capped to circa 120 grand I believe


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I have been there and I know what happens, Im just not blind enough to believe that its always a stitch up.
> 
> You gave them enough in your interview for them to build a case
> 
> Do you think the chances of remand increased or decreased when you said this?


It's not the police that remand you it's the magistrates. What I said was never presented as evidence because it's not evidence lol. Come on Banzi I thought you were an intelligent man. In no court of law anywhere would that be classed as evidence. The only evidence was her statement.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Chronic said:


> IME you need be on enhanced to get more gym time, max I've ever been able to do was 5 days a week.
> 
> Although I've known people get gym access on induction wings.


I was enhanced but thye gym was only available max 2 days a week. Most of the time It was only one and I was at work during that time.

Sure it's different at different prisons. 5 days a week is pretty good, would have loved that.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> The guy that spent 25 years in prison was wrongly convicted. *You get compensation for that (or should).*
> 
> The other comment was about being on remand where you don't get compensation.


I thought you knew what you were talking about?

And you can get compensation for being held on remand if the police acted improperly.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

kniterider said:


> No he won't. Payouts for wrongful conviction have been capped to circa 120 grand I believe


Really? Wow. Didn't know that.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> Really? Wow. Didn't know that.


Bearing in mind you are claiming to be an expert in these matters you seem to be lacking a little knowledge of subject matter.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I found this bit about remand staggeringly unfair



> A remand prisoner that leaves prison or court having been found not guilty is not entitled to any support from the probation service or to the £46 discharge grant. It seems particularly unfair that people who have been in prison, without being convicted cannot access the (very limited) support that a convicted prisoner gets on release.


So if you are a criminal you get the cash, if you are innocent you get nothing???


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

I may be wrong on the figure but not far off. Came in a few years back I believe


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> It's not the police that remand you it's the magistrates. What I said was never presented as evidence because it's not evidence lol. Come on Banzi I thought you were an intelligent man. In no court of law anywhere would that be classed as evidence. The only evidence was her statement.


So , your statement isnt evidence, but hers is?

Hows that work then?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> So , your statement isnt evidence, but hers is?
> 
> Hows that work then?


Because her statement will get me arrested,charged etc then the trial will be my opportunity to present my evidence. At which it got dropped.

Could happen to you or the next person. Hopefully you never find out.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

banzi said:


> I found this bit about remand staggeringly unfair
> 
> So if you are a criminal you get the cash, if you are innocent you get nothing???


That's what I have been saying.

Never claimed to be an expert. Just that I have experience in this so know more than most. Also I was never convicted so never needed to find out the cap on how much you would get.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Because her statement will get me arrested,charged etc then the trial will be my opportunity to present my evidence. At which it got dropped.
> 
> Could happen to you or the next person. Hopefully you never find out.


It has happened to me, Im not arguing from ignorance.

Although looking back at my situation I can see why and how it happened and how it got past the court.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> Can you imagine spending 25 years inside when you didn't do it?  He will get a massive payout but that's not much consolation.


That's a scary link.

And almost all of them claim that they didn't get any compensation...

Worrying


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Because her statement will get me arrested,charged etc then the trial will be my opportunity to present my evidence. At which it got dropped.
> 
> Could happen to you or the next person. Hopefully you never find out.


Unless you say something that might help them convict you, then they will use it and tell the court.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:
 

> It has happened to me, Im not arguing from ignorance.
> 
> Although looking back at my situation I can see why and how it happened and how it got past the court.


Ok but not all cases are the same.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> That's a scary link.
> 
> And almost all of them claim that they didn't get any compensation...
> 
> Worrying


have a read of this

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/jon-robins/justice-turned-upside-down-victims-of-wrongful-conviction-must-prove-innocence


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Ok but not all cases are the same.


Thats my point.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> That's a scary link.
> 
> And almost all of them claim that they didn't get any compensation...
> 
> Worrying


I have heard before that people were fighting for compensation years after they were realised. I don't know if they ever did but it's not easy.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> Unless you say something that might help them convict you, then they will use it and tell the court.


Exactly


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Patch-Adams said:


> Unless you say something that might help them convict you, then they will use it and tell the court.


Exactly, does felone really think the mags didn't know what he said in his statement?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Exactly


are you trolling now?


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

banzi said:


> have a read of this
> 
> https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/jon-robins/justice-turned-upside-down-victims-of-wrongful-conviction-must-prove-innocence


Unbelievable!


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> Thats my point.


Mine too lol.

That's why when people say such and such wouldn't happen because this article or whatever says so I disagree.

There's corruption, false statements and witnesses at play.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> have a read of this
> 
> https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/jon-robins/justice-turned-upside-down-victims-of-wrongful-conviction-must-prove-innocence


thing is it catch 22, they need a law that allows you to lock up dangerous people before a trial, but sometimes there will be innocent people affected.

I always remember reading a story about a nanny that was looking after kids for a family and the kids went missing, they blaimed her and they hung her (it's an old story) and then the kids turned up, turned out they done a runner for a few days.

What's done is done though.

There is no fool proof method for crime and punishment.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> are you trolling now?


Am I trolling? Does it sound like I'm trolling?

You calling me a troll is hilarious considering you're the one always trying to wind people up or just arguing points for the sake of it.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> Exactly, does felone really think the mags didn't know what he said in his statement?


I really think YOU must be trolling now. I didn't say anything incriminating in my statement because I hadn't done anything wrong ffs.

It's very simple to understand..... For most people lol.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Am I trolling? Does it sound like I'm trolling?
> 
> You calling me a troll is hilarious considering you're the one always trying to wind people up or just arguing points for the sake of it.


You said your witness statement didnt have an effect in court then agreed that a witness statement is used in court as evidence .

So your comments in interview would have had a bearing on you getting remanded.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I really think YOU must be trolling now. *I didn't say anything incriminating in my statement because I hadn't done anything wrong ffs. *
> 
> It's very simple to understand..... For most people lol.


No but you said



> I told him she's an evil bitter cvnt who's trying to stitch me up.


Now, do you think the mags looked favourably on that comment?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> You said your witness statement didnt have an effect in court then agreed that a witness statement is used in court as evidence .
> 
> So your comments in interview would have had a bearing on you getting remanded.


I've explained it in very simple terms for you but it's still like trying to explain it to a kid.

I'm out.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I've explained it in very simple terms for you but it's still like trying to explain it to a kid.
> 
> I'm out.


No, its finally dawned on you that if you had been courteous and polite during interview there would have been less a chance of you being remanded.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> No, its finally dawned on you that if you had been courteous and polite during interview there would have been less a chance of you being remanded.


Ok


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Patch-Adams said:


> Should have thought about that before? If you're on remand you haven't been found guilty of anything yet and might not have done anything. Still innocent at this point.


The subject is those in prison already I believe?

Ie he's talking of those circumstances where they are there for time.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> The subject is those in prison already I believe?
> 
> Ie he's talking of those circumstances where they are there for time.


I was replying to you saying "If ur lifted off the street mid a high cycle remanded and no access to pct.....Hard luck ...u should have thought about it before right?"

If you are taken from the streets and remanded you are in prison but not been found guilty and by law still innocent until convicted.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Because her statement will get me arrested,charged etc then the trial will be my opportunity to present my evidence. At which it got dropped.
> 
> Could happen to you or the next person. Hopefully you never find out.


I was thinking about this when I got up this morning.

The prosecutions has all the advantages in the bail hearing. The police don't disclose everything at this point, it's very one sided.

Thinking about my case and the stuff the police knew at this time but didn't tell us or the courts.

-We didn't know about her previous false allegation.

-We didn't know about she didn't seek any medical help until she went to the doctors three days later.

-We didn't know the police hadn't taken any photos of any injuries and were just going on a mobile phone picture that could have been taken at any time.

If the judge knew this I would have got bail. It's easy for them to remand innocent people when they only use evidence that helps them.


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## Chronic (Feb 5, 2015)

Patch-Adams said:


> I was thinking about this when I got up this morning.
> 
> The prosecutions has all the advantages in the bail hearing. The police don't disclose everything at this point, it's very one sided.
> 
> ...


Similar happened to me, 18 months of court dates, finally came to a trial date and it was shown that the investigating officers had hidden 3, 5" folders FULL of false accusations and other bs that she'd been up to..

Trial was moved to another date and by that time CPS had re-reviewed and decided not to continue prosecuting.

If it wasn't for my barrister digging so deep I'd probably still be in prison now.

CID are ****ers and will most likely do anything to seal a conviction, regardless of innocence/guilt.


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## Patch-Adams (Sep 19, 2014)

Chronic said:


> Similar happened to me, 18 months of court dates, finally came to a trial date and it was shown that the investigating officers had hidden 3, 5" folders FULL of false accusations and other bs that she'd been up to..
> 
> Trial was moved to another date and by that time CPS had re-reviewed and decided not to continue prosecuting.
> 
> ...


I had the worst legal team ever to start with. The barrister even tried to tell me to plead guilty to a lesser charge as I would be found guilty. Turned out he hadn't even read the paperwork. Sacked him straight away. The barrister and solicitor I ended up with were great. They went out the way to help even if they weren't being paid to do it. I would still be in prison now if I kept my first legal team.

My trial kept being put back as well. I don't know for sure but I wonder if they were hoping I would crack and just take a lesser charge.


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