# Fed up



## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

Ok I'm going to have a little rant now about myself. I'm fed up with the way I look big time. I don't want to be massive but at the same time I don't like the look of my physique. I weigh 12st 3 and just can't seem to budge off it. This results in me stopping doing my workouts and having to start from scratch due to lack of motivation. So basically I need help and advice on supplements that I need to take, diet, and some sort of workout plan to reach 13 stone at least. Sorry to wack up a long post but its bugging me now


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

Read the beginners section and the food, diet and nutrition section.

If you haven't even got the motivation to research this for yourself, then it's simply not going to happen. I don't mean to sound harsh, but this isn't an overnight game, nor do you get 'amazing results in 12 weeks' as seen advertised. This is a lifestyle choice, it takes months to make noticeable changes, years to achieve a really good physique.

Read the stickies in the sections i've mentioned, then you'll be in a much better position to ask questions on *your* diet and *your* routine from there.

Good luck.


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

cheers buddy, I've been training for quite a while 2 years or so, but just not getting the gains I want. Its more what supplements to take and what to eat than the training side


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

3500 cals a day ... 6 meals, split up pretty evenly. If you're still not gaining .. then eat more.


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## scotty_new (Jun 5, 2008)

ok first off list here all your stats, age, weight, how long youv been training, an in depth break down of your routine and your exact diet including supps and then we can begin to help, i was in the same situation as you mate, wasted nearly 5 years through **** training till i started been serious and asked people on here for help and advice and now i feel im growing day by day :cool2:


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

The food, diet and nutrition section has all that info mate. Including how to grow, how to formulate a diet, etc.

If you want to post your diet i'm sure people can change it up for you, but to be honest, you're better doing it yourself and learning why the things are in there.

Supplement wise i take whey protein, casein protein, multi-vits, fish oils, digestive enzymes, kre-alkalyn, l-glutamine, but that's far from an exhaustive list, there's a million things out there you could be taking. Diet however, IMO, is far more important than supplementation, without the diet in place, you will NOT grow.


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

Scotty_new: I'm 18, 12 stone 3. Been training off and on for about 3 years mainly for athletics but now I don't do that I want to get bigger.

Diet

Breakfast: Toast (2 pieces with jam) and 1 Scoop of Whey Protein

Mid morning: Porridge 40g, 2 scoops of casein protein

Preworkout: Apple 1 scoop of whey

PostWorkout: 2 Casein scoops 1 whey scoop

Dinner: Chicken, Turkey, Pork, Beef (varies) usually with pasta, vedgetables, baked potato

Night time snack: Porridge 40g, 2 scoops of casein


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## scotty_new (Jun 5, 2008)

there you go your diet needs alot of looking at mine used to be like that and never realised how bad it was you MUST HAVE A GOOD DIET TO GROW, get reading round the diet and nutrition threads ask some questions for advice etc and post up your routine for people to check/comment on

heres an example of a good diet mine is similar to this maybe a little different but its a base line to judge yours against mate

5.30

50g whey, 75g oats, banana, 5g creatine, 5g glutamine

8.30

100g cooked pasta, 200g chicken, 100g veg

Pre-workout shake

50g whey, 50g oats

Post-workout shake

50g whey, 50g malto, 5g creatine, 5g glutamine

1.00

2 tins of tuna with a large jacket potatoe, 10ml olive oil

4.00

200g chicken, large jacket potatoe, 100g veg

7.00

4 egg whites (with 2 yolks) omelette, salad, 2 pieces of wholemeal toast

9.00

60g casein protein shake

tub of cottage cheese


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## fitnessfreak (Jun 15, 2009)

dave_067 said:


> Scotty_new: I'm 18, 12 stone 3. Been training off and on for about 3 years mainly for athletics but now I don't do that I want to get bigger.
> 
> Diet
> 
> ...


No lunch? You gotta eat big to get big!

Follow a plan laid out by scotty_new if you can (although good luck with eating pasta at 8.30am!!! :tongue: )


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## new_toys (Aug 7, 2009)

Thats great adive Scotty... with your diet Dave your never going to grow. Your body needs a sh!te load of nutrients to grow. I try to take in at least 650+ calories above my maintenance. As people have said this growing thing ain't easy and it won't happen any time fast  i wish it would lol. If you address your diet and stick with a decent workout approach you will get there in the end and it will be so worth it.

Best of luck mate


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

do compounds only hard and as heavy as you can,rest until completely recovered before repeating and eat loads during that rest.


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## scotty_new (Jun 5, 2008)

fitnessfreak said:


> No lunch? You gotta eat big to get big!
> 
> Follow a plan laid out by scotty_new if you can (although good luck with eating pasta at 8.30am!!! :tongue: )


yea you may want to replace that with something else lol im a morning person who doesnt realy like breakfast so i can manage it lol


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

Would it not be better to just take a good weight gaining supplement to take in more calories? Could someone jot me a quick workout programme down cus I don't think I'm lifting enough weight for enough reps either. Cheers for the help though guys


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## scotty_new (Jun 5, 2008)

make your own weight gainer mate whey protein with oats mixed/blended in. must eat an unreal amount of food though to get the balance of carbs, cals,protein and fats, thats just the way it is you must be 100% comited to doing it properly or dont do it at all, like i said i wasted years and sooooo much money not doing it right trust me.


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

Will this work if I'm trying to gain lean muscle??? I mean i've got a programme in muscle and fitness magazine which I keep starting to follow then sort of stop lol. But it seems pretty similar in terms of what your saying diet wise. There meal plan works out at 3930 calories, 402g carbs, 363g protein, 97g fat. The thing these magazine programmes never seem to state is how heavy you should be lifting. As heavy as possible I've always presumed. Cheers scotty_new the advice is really helping, soz if i'm picking your brains a bit to much


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Here is an article that I wrote that I do believe fits here:

*Tips for teenagers wanting to start bodybuilding.*

First of all I wish I had some information when I started out.

I was 15 years old when I first started training, for the most part I just watched the football players in school.

Sure they had some direction from the coaches and this is why I tried to copy them.

But bodybuilding is a different training philosophy than football training (American Football).

Bodybuilding in itself is not just lifting weights but we will focus on that here. It is a balance of diet, exercise and rest.

To make it simple, you grow when you sleep and not in the gym.

The idea is very simple, you stimulate the muscle, and let the body adapt to the stimulation you have given the muscle.

If you are eating and sleeping in theory you should grow.

This all can be shortchanged by not getting enough food, or not getting enough rest, these two things will hinder the body's recovery and growth.

Overtraining is another obstacle that most people will do without even knowing it, in the normal thinking of things, more is not better here.

Ok, best advice I can give for anyone starting out would be to stick to basic compound movements. Compound movement's mean that the exercise has more than one joint.

For instance leg extensions have one joint movement (knee), whereas squats will have knee, hip, ankle, etc.

What are basic compound exercises?

Squat, dead lift, military press, pull up's, bench press, incline press, bar dips, rowing exercises, etc.

You can not go wrong by choosing all of the above in your workout routine.

Notice that curls and triceps are not included there?

That is because they are an isolation movement and not a compound movement.

Every one of those in some way or another hit arms, for instance. Bench will hit chest, front deltoids and also triceps. Military press will hit triceps, so will dips. Actually those three exercises will hit the whole tricep.

Now that we have the basic compound exercises identified, we will figure out what rep range we want to use. I have found that a rep range of between 8 to 12 reps to work very well for most people, some may like less reps, some may like more, but we will stick to those for now as 70% of your 1 rep max will work 90% of both slow and fast twitch muscles. Or in simple terms, it will work all your muscles, which is what we want.

Remember these rep ranges are on your own with no help from someone else, if you need help to get to your 8th rep, then you are going too heavy.

It is often said, control the weight or the weight will control you.

What does this mean?

This means that you choose a weight you can do comfortably without having to cheat or ask for help to execute the exercise. It is a good idea to use the full range of the movement and not do half reps, or cheat reps. This is not only good practice but also will help you to avoid injury.

I know it looks good using big weights in the gym and others are watching you, but if you use a weight you can handle, over time you will get stronger, and what you lift tomorrow will be more than you lift today.

It is a good idea to write your lifts down to compare from week to week or month to month. Once you have a weight you do more than 12 reps with, next week, you will add some weight to the bar and probably take you back down to the 8 rep mark.

Remember Rome was not built in a day and neither was Arnold.

Now that we have the exercises down, the rep range down, let's focus on how many exercises for each body part. I myself like to work with about 3 different exercises per body part, for instance, I like to do bench, inclines and dips for chest, pull downs, bent over rows, and dead lifts for back. I occasionally do add another rowing exercise to that due to most people do too much pushing and not enough pulling exercises.

Remember the bigger muscle groups will generally have more exercises than let's say the smaller muscle groups like let's say biceps. For some reason biceps tend to get more attention than most other muscle groups. Arms in particular seem to be everyone's favorite to work. It might sound strange that many don't even work arms directly as they get hit with all the compound lifts. So, not only should they not be the main focus, but they should be the least focus. Arms will grow if you do compound exercises period. Yes it is ok to do some arm work but it is not priority.

So, let's think of the bigger muscle groups as having between 3 to 4 different exercises per large group and 2 exercises for the smaller muscle groups.

Never neglect working your legs.

Most think that weight lifting is either pushing (concentric) the weight up, or pulling (concentric) the weight down. Yes, muscles do contract and this is called the concentric part of the movement. An example of this is the bench press where one was to push the weight off of the chest; this is called the concentric part of the exercise.

Many will let the weight just drop with little resistance. But doing any lift this way cheats you out of half of the benefits of the exercise.

The eccentric part of the bench press would be controlling the weight on the way down (giving resistance) to force the muscle into a stretched contraction, or lengthen under tension.

This eccentric part of the exercise actually causes the muscle to have greater soreness.

Using both the concentric and eccentric part of each lift will offer greater gains in strength and muscle size then not using both.

So, next time you are in the gym, use those basic compound movements, utilizing both concentric and eccentric parts of the exercise, shoot for 3 to 4 max exercises for the big muscle groups, and 2 exercises for the smaller muscles.

Try to keep the rep ranges between 8 to 12 reps, if you can't get 8 you went too heavy, if you can do more than 12 you are too light.

Try and get at least 8 hours of sleep and take rest days when you feel fatigue.

Muscle takes time to develop, it is not something that happens over night, it takes along time, be patient.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Next thing is this.

Choose a diet that is lower in the glycemic index. Fruits in the morning and vegetables in the afternoon.

Complex carbs are ok, just dont eat every meal with them.

Drop the toast, choose carbs that are not processed.

Oats, sweet potato, are good selections, the higher fiber carbs are good.

This will help keep blood sugar levels stable so you dont binge on carbs.

You are eating far too many shakes.

Eat regular food, it will stay with you longer and there are many B-vitamins in meat along with minerals and iron, zinc etc, shakes do not offer this luxery.

Up the water too.

Supplements are a good multi vitamin/mineral supplement, digestive enzymes, fish oils, and also pro-biotics.

I notice your diet is very light in good fats, problem with that is when the body sees a defencie of essential fats, the body will store fats.

Fish oils with no less than 6 a day with meals would be nice.


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## scotty_new (Jun 5, 2008)

thats all great advice, and yes you should realy be lifting as heavy as you can without loosing form, must keep clean neat form even if you need to lighten the weight i little bit imo. post your program up here so we can have a look at it for you, but yes your diet does need to change what hackskii said is all great advice very detailed. change your diet around plan it out and post it back up to see what it looks like.


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## scotty_new (Jun 5, 2008)

dave_067 said:


> Cheers scotty_new the advice is really helping, soz if i'm picking your brains a bit to much


to be honest mate i don't have half the muscle brains on here compared to these people, all iv learnt is from others on here from asking questions before you and picked knowlege from them and searching past threads/posts. but im glad i can help best i can i wasted ALOT of time and money working out wrong with no results its only in the last 2 months iv felt things change for me as i begin to get serious


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

hacksii - cheers for posting that article bud theres some great advice in there. What I'm struggling with is understanding the various sections of the diet plan. Could you post me up a rough example like scotty did of a good clean diet plan. I want to stay natural to. What supplements would you be recommending as I'm currently using Reflex Whey and Reflex Cassein but used USN Muscle Fuel Anabolic before hand which I don't think suited my stomach to well.

scotty - I will post my plan up for you later on to have a look at if I get chance, but I am about to design a new one based on the advice you guys have given me


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

If you like post up your diet and I will tweak it for you.

I supplement fish oils, multiple vitamin mineral supplement, digestive enzymes and pro-biotics.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

hackskii said:


> If you like post up your diet and I will tweak it for you.
> 
> I supplement fish oils, multiple vitamin mineral supplement, digestive enzymes and pro-biotics.


Scot

Am l right in thinking its slightly harder to gain mass at a young age due to your metabolism as well ??

Just something l have been led to believe and TBH it sounds feasable.

:confused1: :confused1: :confused1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

gemilky69 said:


> Scot
> 
> Am l right in thinking its slightly harder to gain mass at a young age due to your metabolism as well ??
> 
> ...


Not really, it depends on the body type, activity level, etc.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

gemilky69 said:


> Scot
> 
> Am l right in thinking its slightly harder to gain mass at a young age due to your metabolism as well ??
> 
> ...


quite the opposite in my experience being a screaming ecto myself.

I think you can build mass much quicker as an ecto, reagarding you actually eat enough and thats the negative about that bodytype.


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

My diets on the previous page I think matey.


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

Breakfast: Toast (2 pieces with jam) and 1 Scoop of Whey Protein

Mid morning: Porridge 40g, 2 scoops of casein protein

Preworkout: Apple 1 scoop of whey

PostWorkout: 2 Casein scoops 1 whey scoop

Dinner: Chicken, Turkey, Pork, Beef (varies) usually with pasta, vedge, baked potato

Night time snack: Porridge 40g, 2 scoops of casein

There you go mate, I'm well aware that its poor. Shall I post up my new workout plan for you to have a peak at aswell?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Too many shakes, not enough whole foods, a bit light on the good fats, and too many processed foods.

Choose complex carbohydrates, fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds along with olive oil and also fish oils.

Whey shakes are ok, but not intended to supplement for food.

Whole foods have many more nutrients in them and prioritizing protein for your meals isnt the best approach even worse running shakes like that.


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## dave_067 (Jun 1, 2009)

Could you give me like a clear meal plan or an editied meal plan so that I can see what you mean properly mate i.e. When to have shakes, what shakes to have, what meals to have an when to have them roughly? Sorry to be a pain I just want to do it properly. Also when trying to gain would you still be doing cardio just for overall fitness?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Me personally I hardly ever have shakes.

You can have one a day after your training.

I can give you a selection of foods.

Complex carbs like sweet potato, whole grain rice, oats, etc.

Simple carbs, fruits.

Fiberous carbs, vegetables (green ones).

Protein, vary the sources like meat, chicken, fish, and any other thing that swims, walks, flys or crawls...lol

Fats, nuts and seeds, olives and olive oils, avacado, fish oils.

Putting them all together same meal is a good idea too.

Remember that the body can strore fats, and glycogen, so the only other macro that the body can not store is protein, that needs to be in every meal.

I like to have my meals similar to this.

40/30/30

Carbs/protein/fats

Just stay away from the highly processed foods, simple sugars, and hydrogenated oils and trans fats.


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