# Are beginner muscle gains directly related with starting strength?



## Alfiee (May 21, 2011)

It just popped to my mind. I would like to know if there's any value to it.

Assume two similar male adults weighting the same and with identical height and body mass. Basically the only variable between these two individuals would be strength, where one is already stronger than the other.

My question is: Would you consider it feasible that, given the same proper diet and training regime, the beginner bodybuilder who has an edge in strength over the other will reach muscle mass goals quicker?

If he is stronger he will be able to lift heavier quicker than the other one. And by starting a bodybuilding diet, it might also allow his body to more quickly absorb "mass", as if to reach a more "appropriate" mass value in accordance to his strength and to allow him past that.

Since I'm a beginner, it is likely I'm missing much of the equation here. The reason why I make this thread is to know whether it could be something for a beginner to consider to focus on a strength training routine, lets say for 6 months, and only after getting strength gains and some muscle gains, change the focus from strength to bodybuilding, allowing for slower strength gains but quicker muscle growth.

I'm sorry if I'm just saying a lot of nonsense, but reading around there seems to be quite a difference between strength training routines and bodybuilding routines. Usually you'll see the first focused on low reps and the later on 8-12 reps. The first tells you to move quickly on the concentric phase, bodybuilding routines usually seem to tell you to keep the muscle under tension for a longer period of time. Strength training also seems to be performed more with more regular full body workouts while in bodybuilding you're supposed to give muscle groups plenty of rest. And there are probably more difference I'vent come across...

So, do you think there would be any benefits for a beginner to focus solely on strength gains first and be happy with any muscle gains he might take from that, and only later on change the focus to "hypertrophy optimization" ? (or whatever I'm supposed to call it)

I was wondering if those people who seem to gain muscle faster are also the ones who are genetically more stronger (can you actually be born naturally stronger? I don't know.) or those who have developed strength through sports played in their youth before even thinking about gaining muscle mass.

Cheers

Edit: I was advised in the other thread to try stronglifts 5x5. In this program you're supposed to do Squats 3 times a week. That goes against much of what I read in other forums about "muscle rest". So I went on the internet to search on this and that's how I stumbled on some major differences between strength and bodybuilding programs I wasn't quite aware of.


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## kernowgee (Jan 30, 2011)

IMHO Genetics is the most significant factor in muscle gain, followed by rest, diet then routine. Your starting strength is here nor there as body building is not about being the strongest but learning how to work muscles to exhaustion then allowing then to fully recover thus the reason I state rest is so important anyone can work a muscle


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## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

To be honest its a tough question to answer.

Personally i dont beleive in all that genetic rubbish, we are all built the same and can all become bodybuilders with the right mentality, diet and training.


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Alfiee said:


> So, do you think there would be any benefits for a beginner to focus solely on strength gains first and be happy with any muscle gains he might take from that, and only later on change the focus to "hypertrophy optimization" ? (or whatever I'm supposed to call it)
> 
> *Yes. You need to build a strong foundation. You will also gain muscle*
> 
> Edit: I was advised in the other thread to try stronglifts 5x5. In this program you're supposed to do Squats 3 times a week. That goes against much of what I read in other forums about "muscle rest". So I went on the internet to search on this and that's how I stumbled on some major differences between strength and bodybuilding programs I wasn't quite aware of.


IMO, stronglifts is more of an intermediate program

Take a look at Ripptoe's Starting Strength


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## Nemises (Jun 29, 2008)

x2 riptoe starting strength.

Squating 3 times per week is fine. Just make sure you are eating plenty and you wil gain well and lift heavier.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

2 people with the same variables except for human individuality will not achieve the same results in a set time that is what separates us .

as for starting with a strength training routine this is the common factor we can all follow to gain size/muscle mass providing of course progression is used .

as for the squatting 3 x week you have heavy medium and light days , legs are used (by those of us lucky enough to be able bodied) on a daily basis and require a greater degree of progressive resistance .

many body builders like dorian yates trained to failure with heavy weight but he would do some warm up sets first so doing his type of training (hypertrophy) is very close to a 5x5 strength routine .

in general a strong muscle can move more weight meaning a greater resistance can be placed on the muscle/s = a bigger muscle however that is Dependant on the type of training ie hypertrophy or strength .


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## kernowgee (Jan 30, 2011)

Nemises said:


> x2 riptoe starting strength.
> 
> Squating 3 times per week is fine. Just make sure you are eating plenty and you wil gain well and lift heavier.


Personally I would not advise newbees to squat so many times a week, it impacts so much along with deads, as you are working muscles that might never have been worked and risking injury for no good reason Once a week to start with until your body gets used to the strain

Riptoe is brilliant at lifting theory but few benefit following his routines, he over simplifies everything into a dumbed down theoretic idealism of the what he considers perfection, follow the big guys like Dorian who walk the walk IMHO and are living proof that they know what they are talking about


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## big steve (May 8, 2011)

as a newbie myself i dont think i could squat 3 times a week!

it takes me 5 days to get over a legs day

infact its fast becoming my least favourite exercise!


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

LunaticSamurai said:


> To be honest its a tough question to answer.
> 
> Personally i dont beleive in all that genetic rubbish, we are all built the same and can all become bodybuilders with the right mentality, diet and training.


We are not all built the same otherwise you wouldn't have male and female. There is also a big difference between the genetics of a champion distance runner and a champion weightlifter.


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## strongmanmatt (Sep 30, 2011)

It is a Tough question to answer definitely as there could be a few possible answers. I think my main feeling is that  it's alot to do with

genetics. Perhaps just hard work and dedication and years of training must be good. But it's all in one, a good diet the right workout routine and the right supplements.

I hope to prove this theory.


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