# Carbs Vs Protein. Doing My Head In



## jdsw (Apr 28, 2011)

Hi

My employment allows me to go online most of the day and it has come to the time where my head is puddled with carbs Vs protein intake.

i have read so many posts with different views stating carbs are a must or you can do without carbs as long as your macros are in order.

I am 49 and i am determined to get as lean as possible. I have been following high protein medium fats and low carbs (less than 40 grams per day) for a while now with decent results but keep thinking if i add carbs would i do better.

Opinions please.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

If you are coping OK on 40g of carbs per day and getting good results, stick with it. The reason to eat more would be if your training performance was suffering badly as a result, or you were otherwise struggling.

(I believe there is an argument for higher carbs being slightly better if you have high insulin sensitivity but most people don't and so are better off on low carb.)


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

Stick low carbs if your wanting to trim down.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you are coping OK on 40g of carbs per day and getting good results, stick with it. The reason to eat more would be if your training performance was suffering badly as a result, or you were otherwise struggling.
> 
> (I believe there is an argument for higher carbs being slightly better if you have high insulin sensitivity but most people don't and so are better off on low carb.)


^ this for me too.

if you're coming from a position of high bodyfat (as i have) then you are likely to have some changes of insulin sensitivity to work on as well as dealing with appetite control.. for me, this is done easier with low carbs.

Again though. so long as performance/recovery isn't affected.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Human beings can survive without carbs. Can't survive without the other two. I always golow carbs when I'm dieting. Around 35g. Has zero affect on my training. Or anything else. Apart from fat loss.


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## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

sen said:


> Human beings can survive without carbs. Can't survive without the other two. I always golow carbs when I'm dieting. Around 35g. Has zero affect on my training. Or anything else. Apart from fat loss.


What do your macros look like when dieting?

I'm cutting at moment on like 200g carbs really and it's coming off decently. I feel if my carbs are too low it definitely affects my training. Might just be psychological thing to be honest!


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## chickenjunkie (Jan 6, 2015)

How do we know what our sensitivity is like ?

Ive trained fasted before not having ate close to 14 hours and find that it doesnt really affect me too much and some people claim it helps focus.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Dan TT said:


> What do your macros look like when dieting?
> 
> I'm cutting at moment on like 200g carbs really and it's coming off decently. I feel if my carbs are too low it definitely affects my training. Might just be psychological thing to be honest!


250/34/34 p/c/f. something around there. Was only on about 1600 cals. Weighed 11 stone 9 eat lightest.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

chickenjunkie said:


> How do we know what our sensitivity is like ?
> 
> Ive trained fasted before not having ate close to 14 hours and find that it doesnt really affect me too much and some people claim it helps focus.


I dont think theres a way without proper blood tests tbh.

anecdotally though, when I started out I would get the shakes (through low blood sugar) if i tried to train without a pwo meal.. whereas now my diet is more in line with intermittent fasting and I can train anytime with out any issue.

for me, that has to be a sign of an improvement?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dan TT said:


> What do your macros look like when dieting?
> 
> I'm cutting at moment on like 200g carbs really and it's coming off decently. I feel if my carbs are too low it definitely affects my training. Might just be psychological thing to be honest!


Calories matter most - you certainly don't have to go to very low carbs to lose fat.


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## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Calories matter most - you certainly don't have to go to very low carbs to lose fat.


Yeah I know that, i've done low carb on diets before and don't think its for me. Will steadily reduce them as I bring calories down further.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dan TT said:


> Yeah I know that, i've done low carb on diets before and don't think its for me. Will steadily reduce them as I bring calories down further.


That's what I do. Just started to cut on 150g carbs but will reduce them further if progress stalls. Just cutting to improve my abs for summer.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Calories matter most - you certainly don't have to go to very low carbs to lose fat.


Started my cut today with zero carbs, usually when I don't have carbs I get the shakes and stuff till I get used to it..


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## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

Plate said:


> Started my cut today with zero carbs, usually when I don't have carbs I get the shakes and stuff till I get used to it..


Zero carbs? How on earth do you manage that...?


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Dan TT said:


> Zero carbs? How on earth do you manage that...?


I haven't realy before its my first day today, lowest I have done when cutting was 70g carbs and did well off that just seeing how I get on with none.. Pictures are in my log for the 70g carbs did it for 6 weeks and made good progress.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> I haven't realy before its my first day today, lowest I have done when cutting was 70g carbs and did well off that just seeing how I get on with none.. Pictures are in my log for the 70g carbs did it for 6 weeks and made good progress.


Bet it's not absolutely zero carbs .

There's a big difference between 70g of carbs and zero carbs BTW, as the latter will put you in ketosis. Many people find the transition very tough. Good luck! (Personally I'd stick to 70g if you know it works for you...)


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Bet it's not absolutely zero carbs .
> 
> There's a big difference between 70g of carbs and zero carbs BTW, as the latter will put you in ketosis. Many people find the transition very tough. Good luck! (Personally I'd stick to 70g if you know it works for you...)


It's near enough lol and no doubt I will find it tuff just fancy trying it see how it goes, if I can't do it al just drop onto 70g but I should do ok but even I don't really know what to expect so who knows..


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## FGT (Jun 2, 2008)

Good luck with trying to squeeze one out in a few days time!!, make sure you add some fibre into your diet if your going zero carbs!

My first ever week carb free was ok, I nearly pulled one of those towel rail rads off the wall trying to curl one down the second week though!!


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

FGT said:


> Good luck with trying to squeeze one out in a few days time!!, make sure you add some fibre into your diet if your going zero carbs!
> 
> My first ever week carb free was ok, I nearly pulled one of those towel rail rads off the wall trying to curl one down the second week though!!


 :lol: what did you use for. You're fibre mate?

How long did you do zero carbs?


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## FGT (Jun 2, 2008)

Plate said:


> :lol: what did you use for. You're fibre mate?
> 
> How long did you do zero carbs?


This helped me out

Buy Pure Psyllium Husks Powder UK | BULK POWDERS™

Managed about 4 weeks felt great no lack of energy, good fat loss after the initial water loss.

It all went wrong when I just had a handfull of popcorn one day!, that turned into a whole bag then toast & Doritos!!

Couldn't control the cravings after that day, no sugar cravings as I drink diet drinks a lot anyway.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

FGT said:


> This helped me out
> 
> Buy Pure Psyllium Husks Powder UK | BULK POWDERS™
> 
> ...


Thanks mate will check that out..

Doesn't sound good lol I crave crisps and bread and stuff like that pretty bad when I cut..

So is it worth doing in you're eyes from what you got out of it?


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## FGT (Jun 2, 2008)

Yes you can learn a lot about your body from it! I was very happy with my stable energy levels and sometimes only ate once or twice a day, but good full meals so didn't feel like I was dieting.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> It's near enough lol and no doubt I will find it tuff just fancy trying it see how it goes, if I can't do it al just drop onto 70g but I should do ok but even I don't really know what to expect so who knows..


Just had a quick look at your log and you seem to be eating a fair bit of broccoli which will be good for fibre but does rather stop the diet being zero carb. Not that any diet needs to be zero carb! There's carbs in you peanut butter too BTW.

My guess is you're having at least 30g of carbs per day but it obviously depends on portion sizes.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just had a quick look at your log and you seem to be eating a fair bit of broccoli which will be good for fibre but does rather stop the diet being zero carb. Not that any diet needs to be zero carb!


What do you think maybe add in spinach instead? But still have a it of broccoli?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> What do you think maybe add in spinach instead? But still have a it of broccoli?


Nothing wrong with the carbs you're having at all, I just suspect you're having more like 30g + per day rather than zero.

If you are happy with your diet and results then stick with it. But if you get sick of it you could eat a far more varied diet and still get results, and long term more variety would be good from a micronutrient POV.

You use test right? If not I'd be telling you to increase your fat intake but this is less of an issue if assisted.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Nothing wrong with the carbs you're having at all, I just suspect you're having more like 30g + per day rather than zero.
> 
> If you are happy with your diet and results then stick with it. But if you get sick of it you could eat a far more varied diet and still get results, and long term more variety would be good from a micronutrient POV.
> 
> You use test right? If not I'd be telling you to increase your fat intake but this is less of an issue if assisted.


I'm not assisted mate, and today I feel good very energetic I feel good so I will keep it where it is for now, but I'm not having much broccoli with each meal..

So if I refeed with 1 junk meal is it more or less just keto if I'm around 30g of carbs a day?

Edit: I'm getting my fat from natural pb.. Last night I just had 2 tea spoons..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the recent podcasts on sigma nutrition have some great interviews on the positive and negative sides to Low and V Low carb diets certainly worth a listen.......

i tend to go very low when in the latter stages of Comp prep but once i am lean i can raise then substantially (400g) and remain lean....

for me most people need to focus on insulin sensitivity and improving this, one of the best ways outside of exercise is to rotate the amount of carbs you eat be that by going through parts of the day with meals with no carbs or parts of the week with low carbs, diets such as Carb Cycling or Carb timing.....these diet types do improve insulin sensitivity.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> the recent podcasts on sigma nutrition have some great interviews on the positive and negative sides to Low and V Low carb diets certainly worth a listen.......
> 
> i tend to go very low when in the latter stages of Comp prep but once i am lean i can raise then substantially (400g) and remain lean....
> 
> for me most people need to focus on insulin sensitivity and improving this, one of the best ways outside of exercise is to rotate the amount of carbs you eat be that by going through parts of the day with meals with no carbs or parts of the week with low carbs, diets such as Carb Cycling or Carb timing.....these diet types do improve insulin sensitivity.


Slightly off topic mate but do you have any recommendations to good podcasts to listen to, something that goes into a fair bit of detail, especially with regards to diet and gear.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Chelsea said:


> Slightly off topic mate but do you have any recommendations to good podcasts to listen to, something that goes into a fair bit of detail, especially with regards to diet and gear.


Sigma Nutrition is just that buddy, it is science based with tops guys and girls in the industry i listened to number 72 yesterday with Mike Sweeney that was really refreshing concerning a flexible approach to diet but also with the fact that although calories ultimately are the number one driving force the quality of those calories have a huge impact due to Gut health and digestion, giving good sound science backed examples of poor calorie choices killing 50% of good bacteria in the gut which ultimately effects fat loss.........

they are really good mate


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> Sigma Nutrition is just that buddy, it is science based with tops guys and girls in the industry i listened to number 72 yesterday with Mike Sweeney that was really refreshing concerning a flexible approach to diet but also with the fact that although calories ultimately are the number one driving force the quality of those calories have a huge impact due to Gut health and digestion, giving good sound science backed examples of poor calorie choices killing 50% of good bacteria in the gut which ultimately effects fat loss.........
> 
> they are really good mate


Perfect!! Appreciate that mate. I know what i'll be doing today whilst shifting through quarter end finance sh1te haha.

By the way the last episode of Prep was really good, actually got me a little choked up when you got your birthday present from Tom, really didnt think it would but just goes to show how good the series is mate, really impressed :beer:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Chelsea said:


> Perfect!! Appreciate that mate. I know what i'll be doing today whilst shifting through quarter end finance sh1te haha.
> 
> By the way the last episode of Prep was really good, actually got me a little choked up when you got your birthday present from Tom, really didnt think it would but just goes to show how good the series is mate, really impressed :beer:


thanks buddy, look out for episode 7 then i think i am in tears most of the time lol


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> thanks buddy, look out for episode 7 then i think i am in tears most of the time lol


 :lol: brilliant! You sure Tom didnt spike you with Clomid?


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> the recent podcasts on sigma nutrition have some great interviews on the positive and negative sides to Low and V Low carb diets certainly worth a listen.......
> 
> i tend to go very low when in the latter stages of Comp prep but once i am lean i can raise then substantially (400g) and remain lean....
> 
> for me most people need to focus on insulin sensitivity and improving this, one of the best ways outside of exercise is to rotate the amount of carbs you eat be that by going through parts of the day with meals with no carbs or parts of the week with low carbs, diets such as Carb Cycling or Carb timing.....these diet types do improve insulin sensitivity.


I am going to have a listen to them podcasts cheers..

What's you're thoughts on cutting all carbs out completely? I don't know how much you want to give a way but Al ask anyway lol what's the lowest you go with you're carbs when you're at you're lowest for comp prep?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Plate said:


> I am going to have a listen to them podcasts cheers..
> 
> What's you're thoughts on cutting all carbs out completely? I don't know how much you want to give a way but Al ask anyway lol what's the lowest you go with you're carbs when you're at you're lowest for comp prep?


Give away  knowledge is useless if not shared buddy....

i need to go to zero as in no actual carb foods (not including veg) near the latter stages of prep but once lean i can ramp up carbs and look better, i was 200lbs on stage this year at the Brits i have increased carbs now on training days to 300-400g and am only 5-6lbs off that stage weight, if i dropped a tad of water i would look better and with carbs, you can get lean whilst eating carbs especially if you are looking for a 8-10% BF level you just need to allow enough time to do it.....


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> Give away  knowledge is useless if not shared buddy....
> 
> i need to go to zero as in no actual carb foods (not including veg) near the latter stages of prep but once lean i can ramp up carbs and look better, i was 200lbs on stage this year at the Brits i have increased carbs now on training days to 300-400g and am only 5-6lbs off that stage weight, if i dropped a tad of water i would look better and with carbs, you can get lean whilst eating carbs especially if you are looking for a 8-10% BF level you just need to allow enough time to do it.....


Thanks mate that's what my plan is now to cut all carbs out minus veg to drop down to a better bf% then like you was saying I will probably carb cycle..

That's my log http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-and-pictures/298845-plates-cutting-log.html I am just keeping it simple but there are many that don't agree with it so unsure if it's the right thing to do as the plan is to do it for a round 6 weeks.. How long is too long to go with zero carbs? Thanks again..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Plate said:


> Thanks mate that's what my plan is now to cut all carbs out minus veg to drop down to a better bf% then like you was saying I will probably carb cycle..
> 
> That's my log http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-and-pictures/298845-plates-cutting-log.html I am just keeping it simple but there are many that don't agree with it so unsure if it's the right thing to do as the plan is to do it for a round 6 weeks.. How long is too long to go with zero carbs? Thanks again..


is that 400g of chicken in total or per meal?


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> is that 400g of chicken in total or per meal?


It was total but I changed it to 600g in total..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Plate said:


> It was total but I changed it to 600g in total..


sorry but that in my opinion is a bad diet, there is no rhyme or reason for someone with your stats to eat like that at all......lets not look at it from a calorie point of view but a digestion point of view the huge limit you have set on the range of natural enzymes will effect everything over time from fat loss to food absorption.....

you have had plenty of opinions on the diet in your log concerning carb days/meals etc.......which is fine but with so many different opinions some based on science some anecdotal it can be very confusing in what to do.........i wont add to that confusion apart from to say imo its not a good way to achieve your goal.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> sorry but that in my opinion is a bad diet, there is no rhyme or reason for someone with your stats to eat like that at all......lets not look at it from a calorie point of view but a digestion point of view the huge limit you have set on the range of natural enzymes will effect everything over time from fat loss to food absorption.....
> 
> you have had plenty of opinions on the diet in your log concerning carb days/meals etc.......which is fine but with so many different opinions some based on science some anecdotal it can be very confusing in what to do.........i wont add to that confusion apart from to say imo its not a good way to achieve your goal.


Ok no worrys I took on board some of the advice I was given ref the red meat a few times a week and adding in fruit.. Tbh tho I just thought most of it was the usual iifym debate.. cheers


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> Ok no worrys I took on board some of the advice I was given ref the red meat a few times a week and adding in fruit.. Tbh tho I just thought most of it was the usual iifym debate.. cheers


Actually; most of it was people telling you it isn't very sustainable and would be lacking a lot of micronutrients and so on.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> Actually; most of it was people telling you it isn't very sustainable and would be lacking a lot of micronutrients and so on.


Yeh and then you said add red meat and fruit and I said I will add that in.. The other comments where about changing the diet completely so I enjoy it I.e iifym


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Have you considered carb loading one day a week?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> Yeh and then you said add red meat and fruit and I said I will add that in.. The other comments where about changing the diet completely so I enjoy it I.e iifym


Well I agree with changing a diet so you enjoy it too; but tis your choice - why make something worsse/harder/not as enjoyable when ya don't have to - but ultimately getting to your goal is more important - I also said a variety of veggies not just that sh1t green tree crap


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> Well I agree with changing a diet so you enjoy it too; but tis your choice - why make something worsse/harder/not as enjoyable when ya don't have to - but ultimately getting to your goal is more important - I also said a variety of veggies not just that sh1t green tree crap


It may not be as enjoyable but I just find it easier that way, It works for me.. Each to there own I suppose.

Lol don't you like broccoli, yeh will be adding other veg in..


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

> Have you considered carb loading one day a week?


whats that a full day of carbs and the rest of the week none?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> It may not be as enjoyable but I just find it easier that way, It works for me.. Each to there own I suppose.
> 
> Lol don't you like broccoli, yeh will be adding other veg in..


I don't mind it but I'd rather not eat it, lol.

https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-Vegetable-Stir-Fry/120652011?from=search&tags=%7C105651&param=stir+fry+vegetables&parentContainer=SEARCHstir+fry+vegeta_SHELFVIEW

I eat this


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> I don't mind it but I'd rather not eat it, lol.
> 
> https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Morrisons-Vegetable-Stir-Fry/120652011?from=search&tags=%7C105651¶m=stir+fry+vegetables&parentContainer=SEARCHstir+fry+vegeta_SHELFVIEW
> 
> I eat this


Looks good compared to a plate of broccoli lol

Do you have 1 tub a day?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> Looks good compared to a plate of broccoli lol
> 
> Do you have 1 tub a day?


Yeah - I rarely eat fruit though in a deficit as I've not got the calories @ 1800 

But there is quite a mixed amount of vegetables there and also I eat tomatoes/beans at times.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Plate said:


> whats that a full day of carbs and the rest of the week none?


Pretty much, doesn't necessarily have to be no carbs the other six days but for a low carb diet it can help reset things and keep your metabolism and insulin sensitivity ticking over. Very popular approach with the 70s bodybuilders even during bulks, apparently.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> Yeah - I rarely eat fruit though in a deficit as I've not got the calories @ 1800
> 
> But there is quite a mixed amount of vegetables there and also I eat tomatoes/beans at times.


Just checked yesterday cals it was at 350?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> Just checked yesterday cals it was at 350?


I have no idea what you just asked, lol


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

I said:


> Pretty much' date=' doesn't necessarily have to be no carbs the other six days but for a low carb diet it can help reset things and keep your metabolism and insulin sensitivity ticking over. Very popular approach with the 70s bodybuilders even during bulks, apparently.[/quote']
> 
> Was planning on one meal but my cals are very low so might need more than a junk meal once a week.. Might just start carb cycling mate see how I feel after this week


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> I have no idea what you just asked, lol


I didn't ask well I'm not sure lol I just checked my cals on my fitness pal from yest and it says 350 cal doesnt sound right lol


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> I didn't ask well I'm not sure lol I just checked my cals on my fitness pal from yest and it says 350 cal doesnt sound right lol


350 cals for what? lol


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Plate said:


> Was planning on one meal but my cals are very low so might need more than a junk meal once a week.. Might just start carb cycling mate see how I feel after this week


your struggling with the diet already? justifying having more the one junk meal a week.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> 350 cals for what? lol


I ate 350 cals the whole day yesterday.. With 600g chicken and 400g broccoli and my whey shake..


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Big ape said:


> your struggling with the diet already? justifying having more the one junk meal a week.


I'm doing good mate it's only been a day lol


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> I ate 350 cals the whole day yesterday.. With 600g chicken and 400g broccoli and my whey shake..


Yeah you need to learn how to use myfitnesspal, lol.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> Yeah you need to learn how to use myfitnesspal, lol.


Lol brb

Edit: That's what it says??


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Plate said:


> Lol brb












194 cals - C/F/P - for 200g chicken


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Plate said:


> I'm doing good mate it's only been a day lol


Lol the diet ain't sustainable and your gonna be worse off. im just trying to look in your best interests so u can achieve your goal.

your already salivating over chips ( in your thread ) or u wouldn't have mentioned it, now your trying to justify one cheat meal ain't enough.

sometimes the slow road is the fast road.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> 194 cals - C/F/P - for 200g chicken


Lol got it, will check it again in abit cheers..


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Big ape said:


> Lol the diet ain't sustainable and your gonna be worse off. im just trying to look in your best interests so u can achieve your goal.
> 
> your already salivating over chips ( in your thread ) or u wouldn't have mentioned it, now your trying to justify one cheat meal ain't enough.
> 
> sometimes the slow road is the fast road.


I like chips lol plus I was only messing, I thought my cals where lower than what they are but I will keep it to 1 cheat meal.. I do appreciate you're advice but I honestly believe I will benefit more from doing it this way, with adding the red meat and fruit is the diet even that bad? I mean the variety of fruit is huge lol

Edit: my daughter just spilled her watsits on the couch so I picked them up for her.. Didn't even lick my fingers after.. See dedication


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> I like chips lol plus I was only messing, I thought my cals where lower than what they are but I will keep it to 1 cheat meal.. I do appreciate you're advice but I honestly believe I will benefit more from doing it this way, with adding the red meat and fruit is the diet even that bad? I mean the variety of fruit is huge lol


Your calories are still extremely low! Don't start thinking you need to reduce them further.

I suspect you meant proper chips but FWIW I'm cutting and will be having 150g of oven chips are part of my dinner tonight, and I'll still be losing fat (this is not a cheat). Not saying you need to drop the very low carb thing but there are other options too.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Your calories are still extremely low! Don't start thinking you need to reduce them further.
> 
> I suspect you meant proper chips but FWIW I'm cutting and will be having 150g of oven chips are part of my dinner tonight, and I'll still be losing fat (this is not a cheat). Not saying you need to drop the very low carb thing but there are other options too.


No I won't be reducing them.. Would you not have to cut for less time if you dropped the chips?


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Plate said:


> I like chips lol plus I was only messing, I thought my cals where lower than what they are but I will keep it to 1 cheat meal.. I do appreciate you're advice but I honestly believe I will benefit more from doing it this way, with adding the red meat and fruit is the diet even that bad? I mean the variety of fruit is huge lol
> 
> Edit: my daughter just spilled her watsits on the couch so I picked them up for her.. Didn't even lick my fingers after.. See dedication


now your gonna make me go buy a pack now i love wotsits


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Big ape said:


> now your gonna make me go buy a pack now i love wotsits


Same and they always smell better when someone else is eating them lol


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> No I won't be reducing them.. Would you not have to cut for less time if you dropped the chips?


I'm natty, if I cut with your diet I'd lose too much muscle.

Oven chips are just potatoe with a very small amount of oil, so the only issue is the carb content. I'll eat chips but not fruit when cutting for example as I avoid fructose as it doesn't stimulate leptin. Chips aren't junk food as far as I'm concerned.

I deliberately don't go very low carb to maintain gym performance (and therefore help to preserve muscle) as well as to hopefully stop leptin dropping too much. Right now I'm eating 150g of carbs per day, down from 350-400g per day last week. I'll drop carbs further if fat loss stalls, but I only plan to cut for probably 4 weeks, just to make my abs look better for summer, not for a show or anything!

I have never tried keto as I can get the results I want without.

I do use a form of timed carbs though. Yesterday I had oats at breakfast but lunch was sardines, one tomato and almonds, with most of my carbs being from 25g of oats pre-workout and the rest from spaghetti bolognaise post workout.

Not trying to stop you doing what you're doing if you're happy with it and you're getting good results, just giving you an idea of what I do. And I'm not an expert BTW!


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm natty, if I cut with your diet I'd lose too much muscle.
> 
> Oven chips are just potatoe with a very small amount of oil, so the only issue is the carb content. I'll eat chips but not fruit when cutting for example as I avoid fructose as it doesn't stimulate leptin. Chips aren't junk food as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to help me, like I said I usually cut at 70g I'm going to give this a go then I will use you're advice for when I'm done with it, just want to give this way a go see how my body reacts to it.. :thumb:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Plate said:


> I ate 350 cals the whole day yesterday.. With 600g chicken and 400g broccoli and my whey shake..


This is why I don't trust MFP


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

> This is why I don't trust MFP


I never really use it.. It's probably a good job too :laugh:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> This is why I don't trust MFP


Agreed. I check the data for every food the first time I pick it for exactly this reason.

MFP is great for adding up, and for when you have the same foods/meals often, but I'd never use it to look up nutritional data in the first place.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Plate said:


> No I won't be reducing them.. Would you not have to cut for less time if you dropped the chips?


This is the same as saying to you wouldn't you lose fat quicker if you ate less chicken... you probably would, but ultimately it'd been even less healthy. A small handful of oven chips isn't going to make or break progress, unless maybe you're really trying to push for very low bodyfat levels.

Eating as few calories as you are is akin to women doing the much maligned Cambridge diet


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

2004mark said:


> This is the same as saying to you wouldn't you lose fat quicker if you ate less chicken... you probably would, but ultimately it'd been even less healthy. A small handful of oven chips isn't going to make or break progress, unless maybe you're really trying to push for very low bodyfat levels.
> 
> Eating as few calories as you are is akin to women doing the much maligned Cambridge diet


The only c.v I can do is on a handbike, and I'm not very active throughout the day that's why I dropped everything lower.. It was mentioned earlier that with my veg and natural pb I'm probably getting around 30g of carbs a day anyway so it's not actually a zero carb diet it's more or less keto.. So really it's just a boring diet not a bad one no?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> The only c.v I can do is on a handbike, and I'm not very active throughout the day that's why I dropped everything lower.. It was mentioned earlier that with my veg and natural pb I'm probably getting around 30g of carbs a day anyway so it's not actually a zero carb diet it's more or less keto.. So really it's just a boring diet not a bad one no?


Don't take that 30g figure too seriously BTW, it was a GUESS as I don't know what what weight of broccoli and peanut butter you eat...


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Plate said:


> The only c.v I can do is on a handbike, and I'm not very active throughout the day that's why I dropped everything lower.. It was mentioned earlier that with my veg and natural pb I'm probably getting around 30g of carbs a day anyway so it's not actually a zero carb diet it's more or less keto.. So really it's just a boring diet not a bad one no?


Not really... keto is much more sensible as it takes into consideration you need more than just proten. With keto you get more than half your calories from fats (and you'd set a much more realistic daily calorie intake)


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

2004mark said:


> Not really... keto is much more sensible as it takes into consideration you need more than just proten. With keto you get more than half your calories from fats (and you'd set a much more realistic daily calorie intake)


So what I'm on now is a low carb, low fat, high protein diet, the way I see it is that's what you need to loose weight I'm obviously no expert lol but I know it will work, and how much damage can that do in 6 weeks?

Like I said before I will stick to it and I won't just let it all go to waste after, I injured my shoulder before being careless witch knocked me off track.. Anyway I will carry on with the log and you will be able to see for yourself mate


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Plate said:


> So what I'm on now is a low carb, low fat, high protein diet, the way I see it is that's what you need to loose weight


It is one way to lose weight but you absolutely do not NEED to be on low carb and low fat to do this. (You probably didn't mean this but it's what you said.) What you NEED to lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit.

Arguments relating to carb levels etc relate to fat loss as opposed to weight loss. As I think I posted earlier what is actually optimal is likely to vary with insulin sensitivity. The size of the calorie deficit is the biggest factor, with things like macro splits and timing being things to experiment with to offer small improvements. At the point someone is looking to get into contest shape there factors are likely to become more important I think but this is not something I have experience of. If I'm lean enough to see my abs I'm happy .

A huge factor in what makes a diet good is a structure that allows someone to consistently achieve a good calorie deficit. What is best in this regard varies between individuals. What you are doing is working for you which is why I won't tell you that you must do something else even though it's not what I'd do myself. But you could still stick to the basic approach but tweak things a bit to make it healthier, as many people have suggested.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> It is one way to lose weight but you absolutely do not NEED to be on low carb and low fat to do this. (You probably didn't mean this but it's what you said.) What you NEED to lose weight is to be in a calorie deficit.
> 
> Arguments relating to carb levels etc relate to fat loss as opposed to weight loss. As I think I posted earlier what is actually optimal is likely to vary with insulin sensitivity. The size of the calorie deficit is the biggest factor, with things like macro splits and timing being things to experiment with to offer small improvements. At the point someone is looking to get into contest shape there factors are likely to become more important I think but this is not something I have experience of. If I'm lean enough to see my abs I'm happy .
> 
> A huge factor in what makes a diet good is a structure that allows someone to consistently achieve a good calorie deficit. What is best in this regard varies between individuals. What you are doing is working for you which is why I won't tell you that you must do something else even though it's not what I'd do myself. But you could still stick to the basic approach but tweak things a bit to make it healthier, as many people have suggested.


Yeh me too, when I see my abs I will just maintain lol yeh that's what I meant that it's one way so it doesn't mean it's the wrong way..

It does work for me and I know I can stick with it so that's the only reason I'm doing it, once I'm down to my desired weight then I'll start changing things up to make it more enjoyable.. In my eyes it's the simplest way of dieting I may be wrong just seems easy to me, and like you said I have tweaked it abit and made it healthier so it's not a bad diet anymore..


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