# 6 inch squatting!!



## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

One thing ive noticed in the gym is quite alot of guys load the squat bar with a ton of weight and when it comes to the lift, they must only squat about 6 inches from the standing position. I some times feel like going over and telling em "your best off losing the machismo, drop the weight right down and when u squat, make sure ur a$$ pratically touches the floor before you begin the ascent!!"

Is this common in other gyms, the 6 inch squatters?!!


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Yep, I see this a lot too.

They're usually scrawny, load up with a couple of plates each side (no warm-ups), dip down a few inches and then back up a few times for a few sets. They usually have some kind of protector on the bar too so it doesn't hurt their traps. NEVER able to increase the weight they do. Reality is that they probably wouldn't even be able to full squat with the bar on it's own.

The worst is they're ALWAYS the ones who leave the plates loaded on the bar. Almost every session at the gym I have to tell some punk to clear their crap off the bar when they're done 

I have only seen a handful of guys full squatting at the gym I go to, and they're the ones that are regularly increasing the weight they're lifting and looking better all the time.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

I know what you mean, see it quite often, then after a while of me doing full deep squats, noticed a few mor guys going a bit deeper.

Unfortunately i cant get down more than about 8 - 10 inches at the moment (hamstring is still playing up) but once thats fixed will definately start light and deep rather than loading the bar and doing a 6" squat


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i struggle going right down because im naturally tall and come a little off balance when i go RIGHT down. I do complete full squats but do not go ass to grass. Also because i dont have a spotter most of the time (due to hours) i feel safer not going right down.

bit puffy i know but form comes before anything.


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

Im lucky when it comes to doing legs, my legs are really short and stumpy, so i dont have as far to stoop as most people!!


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## Timmy Smooth (Nov 24, 2004)

Yes, the biggest guy in the gym did that on friday. I couldn't make out exactly how much he had on from the security monitor I watched from, but didn't look particularly a lt more than I do (180kg). He kind of shuffled on his knees and dipped something like 6 inches too. Quite pleased in one respect - he's 3x the size of me and must of been on the juice since, ooooooh, since he was a feotus!

Funny training regime - came in today and only worked his triceps.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Yea we got them at my gym too. The two big trainers at my gym load the leg press machine up with 20 or more plates and only break the knee's from a locked out possition to unlocked position. I never see them do squats eather. These two guys are on gear and will deny in till they are blue in the face. Sad actually. I have never seen acne that bad on a body.........lol.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Agree with whats said here, but the deep back squat is a totally differend exercise to the parallel back squat. I go just below parallel when squatting.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Agree with after shock one of my mates does squats about 45 degrees one week and ass the grass the next and he has the best legs i've seen..


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

I mix partials with full squats - my main work sets are always full squats, but if i'm increasing my max weight for a full, I'll do some high rep partials first - it helps me recognise the weight so my back is ready for the strain.


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## AussieMarc (Jun 13, 2004)

I go down till my quads are para to the floor. Probably not far enough I know but I am still a newbie so it will only come in time. 6" though, wow, thats barely anything.

**** to grass will come in time.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

dirty barry said:


> Agree with after shock one of my mates does squats about 45 degrees one week and ass the grass the next and he has the best legs i've seen..


Its good to mix them up, heavy one week just below parallel, lighter the next week but go all the way down, momentary pause (no sitting on you calves you cheeting [email protected] lol) then back up.

You build a lot of power this way and when you go back to parallel back squats you will see the benefit, you will be very stable in the bottom position.


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## Timmy Smooth (Nov 24, 2004)

Will try ass-to-grass in, oh, 30 minutes time....


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Me too. I will try them on wednesday.


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## OnePack (Jan 9, 2004)

yeah, i go as low as i can without losing balance, i find light weights and really slow reps work best for me, that way i dont risk back pain


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

Timmy Smooth said:


> Will try ass-to-grass in, oh, 30 minutes time....


I started squating again about 1 year ago after a lot of knee and back problems (martial arts) and built up gradually. I go ass to the grass for 3/4 sets then to parrallel for 3/4 sets.

The ass to grass squats work my glutes like nothing else, both methods work quads and hams.

However since my last mis-hap on the dance floor (massively pulled hamstring) i am back to square 1 and from next week will start squats with just the bar, these will (hopefully) be ass to the grass


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

samurai69 said:


> However since my last mis-hap on the dance floor (massively pulled hamstring) i am back to square 1


Wtf? You must have been getting busy then!


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

winger said:


> Wtf? You must have been getting busy then!


Went to a valentines ball, and half way through the night went running up on to the dance floor to dance with my wife to our song and hit a paper heart that was on the floor, one leg went one way and unfortunately the other leg forgot to follow (best splits of the night award went to yours truley). Luckily not one person managed to catch it on video.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

samurai69 said:


> Went to a valentines ball, and half way through the night went running up on to the dance floor to dance with my wife to our song and hit a paper heart that was on the floor, one leg went one way and unfortunately the other leg forgot to follow (best splits of the night award went to yours truley). Luckily not one person managed to catch it on video.


Ouch!!!


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## Timmy Smooth (Nov 24, 2004)

Tried again today. This time, however, I used a metal stool thing we have that is a bout 3 - 3 inches shorter than the benches I usually use to spot with. It is perhaps a foot tall? My weight has to be reduced, though, to compensate for the deeper squat.


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## Roid Devil (Apr 27, 2005)

innit, i hate those guys.

GET DEEP ****WADS!!!

Matt


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## dk246 (Jun 19, 2004)

at kleast u guys see ppl squatting lol! the only ppl in my gym that squat are the powerlifters lol in fact i thing where the only 1s that do legs! lol


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

dk246 said:


> at kleast u guys see ppl squatting lol! the only ppl in my gym that squat are the powerlifters lol in fact i thing where the only 1s that do legs! lol


I agree. Sad isn't it. Leaving out one of the best excercises.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

There are only 3 guys I have seen doing real squats at my gym, and they are the only ones with *huge legs * (this doesnt include myself as squats at the moment are still too painful)


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## dk246 (Jun 19, 2004)

samurai69 said:


> There are only 3 guys I have seen doing real squats at my gym, and they are the only ones with *huge legs *(this doesnt include myself as squats at the moment are still too painful)


  no pain no goin  understand if u have injury  bring on da squats


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Yea Mr. Dancer loves to enter the dance floor doing the splits.......


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

I've only seen three men doing squats in the gym I go to - the rest use the squat rack to stand in while they are doing bicep curls :jerk:


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

Beklet said:


> I've only seen three men doing squats in the gym I go to - the rest use it to stand in while they are doing bicep curls :jerk:


Its a pet hate of mine except on my Bicep Day  , but i use the 7' bar and big plates so it looks ok  , and i do train when its quiet in the gym LOL  .

and i had one of these :jerk: this morning before going LOL.

I actually managed some full squats yesterday, only a plate a side but its coming back. :lift:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

samurai69 said:


> and i had one of these :jerk: this morning before going LOL.


LOL


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Deep squats will give you the best looking legs of anything.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

hackskii said:


> Deep squats will give you the best looking legs of anything.


Just ask Tom Platz. 

I must say though. Soccer players have pretty good legs too. So do kick boxers.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

MAybe these 'Machismo Squatters' are actually enlightened athletes. avoiding injury and maintaining tension on their quads?

I squat only to 60 degrees flexion EVER, thats right only a third of the way but I have big muscley legs and no problems with strength or range of motion. I also teach never to squat below this level.

The reason?

Here are some figures:

Knee Angle /Force in Body weights

60 / 1

90/ 3

120/ 6

150/ 8

*Adapted from Brooks,D (2001) Effective Strength Training. Human Kinetics, champaign, Ill.

As your knee flexion increases, so does the force in bodyweights exerted on your knee joint in a sheering load. So you see, those 6 inch squatters were actually saving their knees some considerable damage and those of you that go 'ass to the grass' have about 8 times your bodyweight plus your squat weight sheering across your knee.......Nice  Added to that is the fact that you are stretching the posterior cruciate, which can lead to instability of the knee joint later in life.

The only advantage to 'Deep Squatting' is that it hits the Glutes more and the quads have to work through a full range of motion. Great! but at the expense of the knee, not so.

FOr anyone wishing to have have knees for life, here is how to set up for a safe and effective squat:

. Set foot position by squatting down unweighted, to your heels, stand up and look down, the position your feet have found naturally matches your hip angles so mentally record the angles and width of your stance.

. Retract shoulder blades so that they are pinching at the back.

. SUck in your stomach and tense your abs. If you can't do this, you need to do core exercises.

. Sit backward maintaining spinal alignment, head up, chest out.

. Knees must travel in the direction of the feet and not travel past the toes, if you can't see your toes you are not rotating your pelvis back far enough.

. If you have long Femurs, this technique will help enormously.

. NEVER heel wedge, this increases sheer force in knee joint.

If not hitting the glutes is a problem then just add reverse lunges to your routine, it will hit the muscles missed by a 60 degree squat.

HTH

SD


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nice post sportsDr......


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

i see where your coming from SD... but i find when i squat deeper i get far more growth...not doubting its worse for ur knees tho


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

SportDr said:


> MAybe these 'Machismo Squatters' are actually enlightened athletes. avoiding injury and maintaining tension on their quads?
> 
> I squat only to 60 degrees flexion EVER, thats right only a third of the way but I have big muscley legs and no problems with strength or range of motion. I also teach never to squat below this level.
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from with this, and have read loads on the subject and until recently trained no lower than parrallel and taught my clients this way.

BUT (you knew there was one coming), about 2/3 months ago started doing full hindu squats (pavel/furey reccommended them) to get over some knee pain that i had. I also decided to do my squats Asss to the Grass and have actually reduced the my knee pain.

This may have been correcting a glute/quad/hamstring imbalance, or maybe the higher reps from the hindu squats went someway to strengthening/stretching the tendons and ligaments around the knee, i dont know, but it has worked for me.

I still am cautious with clients, but with the fitter clients, that is changing!

.


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

IMO, it depends entirely on ur foot postioning, I use a wider than normal stance and have my toes pointing at 10 to 2. to me, it feels like it takes alot of the strain off ur kness. i make sure i stoop as low as possible before i take to the asecent. When i do the "half hearted squats" i dont feel like i get the full burn and feel as tho i havent trained my legs properly. Ive never encountered any problems with my knees or have any pains.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, I feel the knee's when squatting.

I never felt it when I was young.

The older I get the more I feel it.

Front squats hurt the knee's the least.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

winger said:


> Just ask Tom Platz.


Hell i agree with that!


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

hackskii said:


> Front squats hurt the knee's the least.


Thats true, and still get a good glute workout


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

sweet_FA said:


> IMO, it depends entirely on ur foot postioning, I use a wider than normal stance and have my toes pointing at 10 to 2. to me, it feels like it takes alot of the strain off ur kness. i make sure i stoop as low as possible before i take to the asecent. When i do the "half hearted squats" i dont feel like i get the full burn and feel as tho i havent trained my legs properly. Ive never encountered any problems with my knees or have any pains.


Thats like saying 'I will keep doing it till I get injured' sound sensible to you?

For anyone it is a personal choice, you have to weigh up functionality and safety over strength gain. As I said you won't benefit as much from a high squat but you *will* benefit and the areas you miss can but hit with another also safe excercise.

To quote Brooks ''Even with perfect execution of the squat movement the risk of injury does not decrease''.

Just think, you really don't know what cumulative damage you are doing that won't show for 20 years, by then its too late, think of me then 

SD


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

SportDr said:


> Thats like saying 'I will keep doing it till I get injured' sound sensible to you?
> 
> For anyone it is a personal choice, you have to weigh up functionality and safety over strength gain. As I said you won't benefit as much from a high squat but you *will* benefit and the areas you miss can but hit with another also safe excercise.
> 
> ...


The day i feel its wearing out my knees or i get an injury to them is the day i will stop doing them with that technique. Ive been doing these type of squats since the first week i went to the gym (July 1995) and ive never missed out squatting from a leg workout. The only injury ive had from squatting is a hernia  . Maybe I just have tough knee joints, i dont know!!


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

So you had a hernia squatting eh? Look at my breakdown of a squat,

SUck in your stomach and tense your abs. If you can't do this, you need to do core exercises

Either you didnt set up correctly as above or you have a weak TVA (Transverse abdominus), in both instances its an accident waiting to happen, well that and deep squatting 

SD


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

Yeah, had a sort of weakness there, oversized inguinal canal, barely even a rip aparently. would have happend sooner or later as id felt it coming on for months, just happened whilst squating unfortunately, nowt to do with form


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

sweet_FA said:


> Yeah, had a sort of weakness there, oversized inguinal canal, barely even a rip aparently. would have happend sooner or later as id felt it coming on for months, just happened whilst squating unfortunately, nowt to do with form


Painful! you must have been spunking like a monkey to stretch your inguinal canal you animal you 

SD


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

samurai69 said:


> I understand where you are coming from with this, and have read loads on the subject and until recently trained no lower than parrallel and taught my clients this way.
> 
> BUT (you knew there was one coming), about 2/3 months ago started doing full hindu squats (pavel/furey reccommended them) to get over some knee pain that i had. I also decided to do my squats Asss to the Grass and have actually reduced the my knee pain.
> 
> ...


This is a well thought out post. I totally agree. We all squat heavy and get pains. Right now I am actually doing somthing very simular and feel really good. I like to train to improve my sports not the other way around.


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## myseone (Mar 27, 2005)

It's best to use all ranges, from partial to full range. When I use the fullest range my glutes grow but not my quadriceps. As a result of this I use a depth that is 3-4 inches above parallel and my legs respond well to it.

Sometimes I use training cycles in which I perform rockbottom pause squats (pausing for 3-4 seconds at the bottom). My best free weight squat rockbottom with 4 sec pauses is 500lbs for 6 reps. On the smith machine I have done 745lbs for 4 reps. Nowadays I use a heavy weight in the slightly above parallel range and it triggers better quad growth for me.

Rockbottom squats primarly overloads the glutes and hamstrings more than quads.

Parallel works all regions fairly evenly.

and above parallel heavily works the quads.

So for best gains I advise variation in this regard.


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

SportDr said:


> Painful! you must have been spunking like a monkey to stretch your inguinal canal you animal you
> 
> SD


lol, u know what i mean the little space where ya balls drop from, my left side was bigger than usual!!!! Anyway, Im gonna get on my soap box now for the last post im doing on this thread!!!

I havent meant to be obnoxious with these post about squatting, Ive read through alot of ur posts SportDr and found them very knowledgable. What ive been meaning to say is, i understand what ur saying about the long term medical problems that are associated with the full squat, but its a risk that is part and parcel of this game that im well aware of and its something i accept may happen. Like in alot of sports,trying to be the best has its costs, some times its greater than the victory (Muhamed Ali for example) My belief is that the full squat is an essential part of overall leg development. this is an extremists' sport where we tread a fine line between good muscular gains and injury. In nearly every sport that requires physical exertion/strain on the body your required to take a risk that may cause you injury. To be the recognised as the best boxer in your division you have to fight, and beat the best....... and that'll mean your gonna take some hefty fu(kin punishment along the way to succeed!! Another example is triple jumpers, they are constantly "hoppin and a skippin" to try and reach that bit further......... imagine the state of their knee's!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow Sweet, that was deep.

I agree with this.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

myseone said:


> My best free weight squat rockbottom with 4 sec pauses is 500lbs for 6 reps.


I think I love you! 

Why would you use a smith machine?


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## myseone (Mar 27, 2005)

winger said:


> I think I love you!
> 
> Why would you use a smith machine?


I'm getting kind of nervous when you say that you love me, I guess that it's in a fellow human being all gods creatures sort of way.

I use a smith machine and a squat. The smith machine allows me to use more weight due to the lack of necessary balance required. As a result this puts more pressure on the spinal column, since the spinal column is part of the brain and the body put's the brain as one of the most important regions to keep working (even it means losing a limb instead), the body will build up more muscle to protect the region; specifically in the hips, glutes, lower back, abdomen, and thigh area; but also in the other muscles of the body to distribute or disperse the load over the bodynext time it's encountered.

I call this the heirachy of importance.

Think about when you fall from your bike, or some one throws something heavy at you like a rock, the first instinct is to raise the arm and block your head. Since the brain and the spinal column are basically the same body part it makes sense that the body will do what it can to protect that region.

Smith machine squats allow you to overload your spine fairly safely more than any other movement. Of course care must be taken to avoid excessive compression, so it's wise to work up gradually. Also if your going to be going heavy here I reccomend that you do extensive warming up, along with streching before and after the weight training. I also use some trigger point theraphy to bring fresh blood to my upper and lower back.

Remember that exercise is not good for you, it is a negative a stress. When your body encounters a correctly done workout, it says to itself " what a minute that was very tough, this guy/girls trying to hurt me, I'm going to build up enough of a muscle reserve so next time he/she does this I will be able to handle it". Once you adapt to a certain stress up it slightrly to make further progress.

My best smith machine squat done slightly above parallel is 1050lb for 5-6 reps (aproximation) (basically 16-45 lb plates on the bar, 2-45lbs hanging on chains, and a rider standing on the bar and holding the top of the smithmachine).

Compare that to my best above parallel free weight squat of 855lbs for 4 reps.

I have found that a 10 week cycle of smithmachine squats, alternating a high rep day with a lower rep day increases my overall body muscularity, density, power, etc..

After 10 weeks of this I do free weight squats because they are better for direct leg growth, alternating high reps with lower reps.

I train squats once a week at most, infact now I train them once every 12 days, and they have been growqing since I decided to get back into competition.

I'm not as strong as I was before, but I'm building back up. On thursday I performed the following workout:

Barbell squats (4 inches above parallel)

warmups 225lbs x 10 reps

405lbs x 10 reps

495 x 6 reps

work set 650 x 20 reps

work set 600 x 20 reps

Leg press one legged (done slightly above 45 degrees)

warmup 10-45lbs x 10 reps

work set 18-45lbs x 20 reps

leg extensions

250lbs supersetted with slow and deep body wt squats back and forth with no rest for 7 minutes or so

this took me about 45 mins to do.

I would'nt have a new trainee (less than 3-4 years of experience) use this technique, they will grow from regular squats really quickly, and the risk of injury is greater because they may overestimate themselves, or not have enough bone and tendon strength to get away with it. This is an advanced technique, that will add a good amount of dense, Dorian Yates type density (not his sizer but his hardness) to your physique.

Alternate a week in which you squat for 15-25 reps to increase glycogen stores, with a week of 8-10 reps to increase muscle fiber density.

Also I would'nt advise you use this (not you Winger) if you are on steriods, as they allow your muscles to get a lot stronger than your tendons and bones, which can lead to a serious injury.

Lawrence


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

myseone said:


> Also I would'nt advise you use this (not you Winger) if you are on steriods, as they allow your muscles to get a lot stronger than your tendons and bones, which can lead to a serious injury.
> 
> Lawrence


I agree. That is how Hackski got hurt benching heavy and pushing it to fast. Nice post myseone. Oh, I tell everybody I love them


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## myseone (Mar 27, 2005)

winger said:


> I agree. That is how Hackski got hurt benching heavy and pushing it to fast. Nice post myseone. Oh, I tell everybody I love them


All we need is love- Lennon

That's cool the world needs more love.

Yeah, steriods do tend to throw the physiology out of wack in terms of balance among the muscle and it's support structures.

For a steriod user I think a higher repetition range 13-15 is probably best for long term tendon integrity. Ron Coleman trains with this rep range and has'nt incurred many injuries to my knowledge.

On the other hand Dorian Yates trained with a lower repetition range and incurred a torn bicep, tricep, hip, quadricep over his career.

Natural athletes have a greater choice of rep range with less risk of injury in my opinion.

Lawrence-


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

myseone said:


> All we need is love- Lennon
> 
> That's cool the world needs more love.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Did you seen Ronnie Coleman dead lifting with 800lbs 5 weeks before Olympia? All I can say is "Light Weight" in that high voice of his.............awsome.


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## myseone (Mar 27, 2005)

winger said:


> Agreed. Did you seen Ronnie Coleman dead lifting with 800lbs 5 weeks before Olympia? All I can say is "Light Weight" in that high voice of his.............awsome.


Actually I have not seen the video but I hear great things about it. I tend to stay shy of the magazines also. In terms of videos, I like Dorian Yates blood and guts and that classic of all classics pumping iron; not for the bodybuilding but the mindchess that other competitors allowed Arnold to play on them. A true classic in mental manipulation.

Lawrence


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

winger said:


> Agreed. Did you seen Ronnie Coleman dead lifting with 800lbs 5 weeks before Olympia? All I can say is "Light Weight" in that high voice of his.............awsome.


I downloaded this file but i cant see anything all i can hear is some guy doing a lame micheal jackson impression?! is that ronnies voice?!   lol jk


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You need the codec for that. I had to download it and then It gave me a bunch of adware. I cleaned it all up and the codec still works.

I dont have it otherwise I would e-mail it to you.

I Used Real Player to play it.

Media Player would not play the video part just audio.


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

sweet_FA said:


> lol, u know what i mean the little space where ya balls drop from, my left side was bigger than usual!!!! Anyway, Im gonna get on my soap box now for the last post im doing on this thread!!!
> 
> I havent meant to be obnoxious with these post about squatting, Ive read through alot of ur posts SportDr and found them very knowledgable. What ive been meaning to say is, i understand what ur saying about the long term medical problems that are associated with the full squat, but its a risk that is part and parcel of this game that im well aware of and its something i accept may happen. Like in alot of sports,trying to be the best has its costs, some times its greater than the victory (Muhamed Ali for example) My belief is that the full squat is an essential part of overall leg development. this is an extremists' sport where we tread a fine line between good muscular gains and injury. In nearly every sport that requires physical exertion/strain on the body your required to take a risk that may cause you injury. To be the recognised as the best boxer in your division you have to fight, and beat the best....... and that'll mean your gonna take some hefty fu(kin punishment along the way to succeed!! Another example is triple jumpers, they are constantly "hoppin and a skippin" to try and reach that bit further......... imagine the state of their knee's!!


Wish id listened to ya now Sport Dr. Ive been doin some heavy duty ass the the grass squatting over the past 2 months, strengths gone tru the roof but my left knee joint hasnt held out too well, Its really sore, worse when ive been sitting down a long time and then go to stand. Its sore inside and just below the patella. ive also noticed a fair bit of fluid on it. Hope it aint the ACL thats knackered.


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## particleastro (Aug 18, 2004)

Well, SportDr, that is essentailly what I have been doing ever since I started squatting. I never, ever go past 60 degrees, never to parallel and certainly never to the floor. I also never heal wedge, and inform people that they shouldnt do it. My squats have gone from 80kg in Jan to 140kg this week, so its working.

Without any weight at all I do those 'sissy squats', look like things ballerinas do, great for working the muscle as they insert into the knee without putting to much force on them. Oh, and getting your mate to hold a pad and kicking the living daylights outta him is a great way to get deff.


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