# Extreme Nutrition Protein Bars.



## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

Well,

What can i say - Easilly the BEST tasting bar i have ever had.

Honey and Coconut - Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

Protein Crisp - Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Penut Butter - MmmmmmmMmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

Really good bars, I highly reccomend them.

Good Nutriant Breakdown too, with 25g protien in each bar

Cheers Doug!


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

the coconut ones are superb.


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## Langers (Nov 18, 2003)

yeah, i like them


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## Harry1436114491 (Oct 8, 2003)

May have to get some of those, just got my Build and Recover (Banana), tastes really good, also came next day (also very helpful at Extreme). It's also the only Supps Company I've seen that sells a proper PWO Shake.

Trainied at luchtime today and the recovery was really noticable, excellent stuff.


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## mr big (Jul 28, 2005)

where did you get them from??


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Try www.extremenutrition.co.uk, or click the link we have on this site!


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## geo99 (Aug 27, 2003)

i know im chancing it abit, but any discount for the board memebers???

haha


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## mr big (Jul 28, 2005)

just got a box ov the Honey and Coconut ones now they better had be good!!

or i will tell my mummy 

b


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Eveyone gets free delivery, spend £50 or over and you get 15% discount. Spend over £50 and add to the comments box when you order that you are a board member and your screen name and we'll make it up to 25% off anything at retail price.

Hows that guys? It means 2.4kg of Whey or 30 servings of meal rep for £30!


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## mr big (Jul 28, 2005)

EXTREME said:


> Eveyone gets free delivery, spend £50 and you get 15%, add to the comments box when you order that you are a board member and your screen name and we'll make it up to 25% off anything at retail price.
> 
> Hows that guys? It means 2.4kg of Whey or 30 servings of meal rep for £30!


now you tell me!!


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

Sounds good! ill take a look now, i need a few supps


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## mr big (Jul 28, 2005)

just got my protein bars today they not that bad just about get them down me and i saved £7 so not bad at all


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## Harry1436114491 (Oct 8, 2003)

EXTREME said:


> Eveyone gets free delivery, spend £50 or over and you get 15% discount. Spend over £50 and add to the comments box when you order that you are a board member and your screen name and we'll make it up to 25% off anything at retail price.
> 
> Hows that guys? It means 2.4kg of Whey or 30 servings of meal rep for £30!


Can confirm he's as good as his word, well typing anyway


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

17.5% SODIUM caseinate main ingredient. Not calcium.....why?


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Its just a different way of seperating the protein, instead of using calcium the mineral involved is sodium.

Its to do with the actual manufacture of the bar, this way is better I believe.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I understand the process but am a bit concerned about total salt content of the bar. Again, not knocking it, Ive had one and it was pretty good. But it didnt list the salt content of the bar.

As someone who suffers High BP its important.

Cheers.


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## Harry1436114491 (Oct 8, 2003)

kingprop said:


> I understand the process but am a bit concerned about total salt content of the bar. Again, not knocking it, Ive had one and it was pretty good. But it didnt list the salt content of the bar.
> 
> As someone who suffers High BP its important.
> 
> Cheers.


The salt content is 0.24% per bar, I think your getting Sodium Caseinate and Salt mixed up, Sodium Caseinate is a protein derived from milk.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Which, if you do your research, has its own salt content mate. Calcium caseinate is high in calcium.....sodium caseinate...........answers on a postcard please.....

http://www.midwestear.com/sodium.htm


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

King I'm trying to see the relevance in the link you supplied, it doesn't tell you anything about sodium caseinate.

The sodium caseinate's purpose is to provide a hint of dairy flavor as well as to create a thickening and whitening for a creamy look and feel. Sodium caseinate is obtained from fresh and pasteurized skim milk by acid coagulation of the casein, neutralization with sodium hydroxide, and drying in a spray dryer. Thus thickening effect allowing the exclusion of gelatine, polyols, etc.

Sodium caseinate is not a source of lactose and is to be found in coffee whitening milk replacement powders and many other products which would surprise you. Calcium caseinate is also derived from sodium caseinate.

TYPICAL ANALYSIS

Protein (dry basis): N x 6.38 91.0%

Color: White to light cream

Moisture: 6.0%

Flavor/Odor: Clean/Bland

Fat : 2.5%

Particle size: Free flowing powder

Ash: 5.0%

Carbohydrate: 1.0%

pH: 6.6-7.2

TYPICAL MICROBIOLOGICAL ANALYSIS

TYPICAL AMINO ACID CONTENT (g/100g of protein)

Alanine: 2.6

Arginine: 3.6

Aspartic acid:	6.3

Cystine: 0.3

Glutamic acid: 20.0

Glycine: 2.4

Histidine: 2.7

Isoleucine:	5.4

Leucine: 8.2

Lysine:	7.3

Methionine:	2.5

Phenylalanine:	4.4

Proline: 10.1

Serine: 5.6

Threonine:	4.3

Tryptophan:	1.1

Tyrosine: 5.6

Valine: 6.4

APPLICATIONS

•	Imitation cheese

•	Bakery products

•	Frozen dairy dessert

•	Health foods

Now what I would like to say is I've scoured the net to find the actual sodium content of sodium caseinate and it is not to be found, so before advising people to do their research you should do some of your own.

It's better not to imply something when you don't the correct answer yourself, in my opinion.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

You need to scroll down below the tables......

Getting the Facts

*Where is Sodium Found in My Diet?*

*
*Sodium is in many foods you eat. It may occur naturally in a food or be added during processing, cooking or at the table. Most sodium added during processing comes from salt, but other ingredients and additives used by manufacturers contain sodium as well. Salt is second only to sugar in the amount added by manufacturers too the foods Americans eat.

Foods that provide significant amounts of sodium in the diets of Americans (excluding sodium added during cooking or at the table) include bread and bakery products, cured and processed meats, canned vegetables and milk products, especially many cheeses. Estimating the actual sodium content of diets is difficult because of the variable amounts of sodium people add to foods during cooking and at the table.

Sodium is also found in many other ingredients used in food processing. Examples of sodium-containing ingredients and their uses in foods are:

Baking powder--leavening agent

Baking soda--leavening agent

Monosodium glutamate--flavor enhancer

Sodium benzoate--preservative

*Sodium caseinate--thickener and binder*

Well, as a dietitian (QMUC 1995-99) I know all about low sodium diets believe me. Plus, as a person who takes AAS and has high BP I also want to know the TOTAL salt content of your bars, which you do not list. Is this too much to ask? You call them 'Nutri Bars' so please I suggest you list the total salt content.

Oh, and whilst we are conversing can you answer my post about GEE where you said you'd get back to me about the amount of peptide bonded glutamine and free form in each of your Extreme caps. This is not listed either. As a person that purchases supplements this information, if not supplied, leads me to suspect the product and any 'claims'

Im not saying both products will be high in salt and low in glutamine respectively, but I do wonder...

If you look a little deeper and not take any offence you'll see im actually helping you out here.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

EXTREME said:


> Calcium caseinate is also derived from sodium caseinate.


Only in the case of calcium/sodium caseinate which is another product entirely from calcium caseinate. Also, in the case of potassium caseinate and salt content of sodium caseinate here's something..

Farbest 570 is a milk protein manufactured from premium quality casein. It is recommended for use in food systems where the functional properties of sodium caseinate are desired, but without the sodium content.

Here's the link I obtained this from. http://www.farbest.com/products/caseinates.html

You will also read that their Tatua 200 Calcium Caseinate is very low in sodium as it is used in infant formulas where this is imperative.


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Yet again King you are posting implications and quoting parts of articles which are not saying anything more than your last unambiguous post.

The salt content of the bar IS 0.24% as Harry stated, the sodium content will not be the same as the salt content in any food as there is likely to be sodium in other ingredients other than the salt. At 9.50pm on a friday night I must be excused bcos I don't have the figures to hand.

With regards to high blood pressure - its me you're talking to!

Extreme Glutamine is 35% free form and 35% peptide bonded glutamine, another 17 aminos are attached to the peptide bonded part. I genuinely forgot about that and as you may have noticed I have not been posting much at all on any forums due to a hectic work schedule and being in France with the WPF.

"Im not saying both products will be high in salt and low in glutamine respectively, but I do wonder...If you look a little deeper and not take any offence you'll see im actually helping you out here." There are ways to word things inquisitively, offensively, innocently or being ar$ey - to me that is ar$ey, don't you agree King?

I will post an answer for anyone else who reads the post, but "help" like that I don't really need, thanks all the same.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Im sorry you feel like that...So basically you are not going to answer my questions because you feel im being ar$ey...

I am merely pointing out that I do not want the added salt content. I want the total salt content. The added, I can read myself, is 0.24% But why even add salt at all. Sodium caseintate is higher in salt than any other caseinate and like you say other ingredients contain salt - coconut paste springs to mind..

35% / 35% peptide/free form also tells me very little with regards your Extreme Glutamine. What size is each cap? Why do you not list this on the label?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

you asked what the breakdown concerning the amount of peptide bonded glutamine and free form in each of your Extreme caps and he has answered this question as well.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

some interesting comments here and salt content would concern me.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> you asked what the breakdown concerning the amount of peptide bonded glutamine and free form in each of your Extreme caps and he has answered this question as well.


I dont see how. 35% of what? I want to know amounts of these so I can compare it to GEE. Then pick the best value.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i think you are just argueing for the sake of it now KP you asked for the amounts and Extreme told you 35% free form and 35% peptide bonded glutamine this is a answer to your question.

now if you wanted to know the size of each cap then that is what you should of asked....


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Paul, go read the original thread mate.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

And im not arguing at all. Don't tell me this is going to go the way of the UK-Bolics thread and be locked. Im simply asking some decent questions that people do not know the answer too, hence why I ask them.

I believe it is important to know the total sodium content and also therefore the total salt content of anything I put in my mouth. I also would like to see, since Dougie brought up the GEE worries he has in the post, what the total amounts of peptide bonded glutamine and free form glutamine his product contains.

How is this arguing for the sake of it??


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

kingprop said:


> Paul, go read the original thread mate.


my reply was based on the question you asked firstly in this thread concerning the glutamine....

why would you bring up the UK Bolicks thread???

this thread will not be closed as long as it stays civil..


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Just making the point that im not arguing bro. I just want to know and think its important to list, period. The US do it with their bars..


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

The Glutamine caps are 500mg caps.

So let me get this straight King, what I am interpreting you want to know is the actual sodium content of the bar or am I wrong?

I never said the other ingredients contained salt, I said they contained sodium. With all the flowery rhetoric in this post I think there is a blurring of the difference between salt and sodium.

With regards to you having high blood pressure you'd be better off as Kingprimo or Kingbold than Kingprop.

"As a person that purchases supplements this information, if not supplied, leads me to suspect the product and any 'claims' Im not saying both products will be high in salt and low in glutamine respectively, but I do wonder..." Your choice of words is not good Davy, think before you type, don't attempt to place a question mark over our products with allegations you cannot support, our products have been analised by government bodies (MCA borderline section) with no question of quality, purity or content.

We have a university testing program running at Heriot Watt too, not the kind of thing someone making bogus products would invest in, or any other supplements manufacturers in the UK for that matter.

Just for the record I have been working with Enviromental Health and Trading Standards with regards to our new label production. There are new requirements being placed on supplement manufacturers and their labels which will be implemented next year, we want to have everything in place before this law comes into place. And I do admit that I have overlooked certain points on some labels but will not do it again, you only notice these things after having a run of 10000 labels made so not easy to rectify at the drop of a hat.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Thankyou, this is all I was after Dougie. Total sodium is fine, with this I can work out total salt. It is easy to do.

Ive said all along it is not an attack at you, im just merely wanting this information. Perhaps impatiently, but it has been a while and your original post which I joined the thread on was dismissive of GEE. All I wanted to know was if you have a product to rival it (surpass is good too) I need to know the full details of what im buying to be sure. Perhaps ive lived in Scotland too long....its rubbing off on me.

But I dont think you need to be on the defensive by my posts. Or see them as anything other than questions, which they simply are.

Is it ok if I ask more?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I have a lot, and they are not allegations that I cannot support. Indeed, they are based on real science and real concerns.

There is no blurring between salt and sodium, there is a blurring between 'added' and 'total' content.

Please address my concerns over your University testing sticky.

Then we shall go from there..


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Davy, I do not see "where we go", I don't get "your concerns" - we're the only company to put our money where our mouth is and take a huge gamble (financial) on proving our products work and having some real UK based research on a complete product, not anecdotal evidence like some companies quote in their advertising, and you are attempting to pick fault/undermine our study already.

It amazes me off that when you do try to do something worthwhile people try discount it for no reason, wait until its done and have a go when the study is on the table if there are areas that have holes.

I'd like to ask you Davy what your educated suggestions would be to validate a range of products, how to improve on what is available and still keep it affordable and financially viable?

It would be nice to hear suggestions from people wanting to be proactive rather than negatively reactive.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

EXTREME said:


> Regarding Glutamine, I have been banging on for ages about how free form glutamine (the one EVERYBODY sells except us) is pointless because it gets absorbed by the gut lining which is pourous and is made from glutamine. You need to consume glutamine in peptide bonded chains with other aminos so its digested like a food and makes it through to an area of the gut called the cillia where amino acids and sugars end up for the passing blood to collect them and carry them to the muscles.
> 
> We've been doing a Glutamine Complex for ages which has half the glutamine from peptide bonded and half from free form, keeping the gut happy and also getting glutamine through to the muscles. So why the need for glutamine ethyl ester, hmmmm, another new product which will now have every company telling us free form glutamine is pointless (like they've done with creatine monohydrate?).
> 
> ...





EXTREME said:


> It amazes me off that when you do try to do something worthwhile people try *discount it for no reason*, wait until its done and have a go when the study is on the table if there are areas that have holes.
> 
> I'd like to ask you Davy what your educated suggestions would be to validate a range of products, how to improve on what is available and still keep it affordable and financially viable?
> 
> It would be nice to hear suggestions from people wanting to be proactive rather than negatively reactive.


Well, I think your negative reaction to GEE started all this. And in fact GEE is cheaper than your product. You supply around 50 grams of peptide bonded glut per 300 caps at £12 odd....GEE is cheaper at ~£8 per 100gs.

You were the one who blurred the salt/sodium debate. When sodium is probably more important than salt, with regards high BP. They are however inextricably linked. The biggest provider of sodium in our diet is salt. Sodium activates the renin-angiotensin system resulting in the

production of angiotensin II which is a potent vasoconstrictor, and

it activates the sympathetic nervous system which increases

cardiac output and vasoconstriction, and it increases water

retention and therefore blood volume. All increasing BP. Salt, sodium...I just wanted total and not added.

Financially viable....Hmmm. Im not in favour of supplement companies tbh. As you state it takes time and cost for things to pass on for sale to the public and by this time it can be outdated. You have to retrieve these costs as well. Plus, one 'formula' cannot be expected to suit everyones needs. I prefer to empower and educate the consumer to make up their own minds and source their own raw materials to suit their sport, body-types, and goals. I do nothing for profit, and indeed will never even run banner ads on my forum as they can blurr the lines of opinion.


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## massive747 (Sep 4, 2004)

Kingpro, been reading your posts and you are a right one mate. Firstly you do come across as agressive and then when challenged say hey no beef !

Then you post- Hmmm. Im not in favour of supplement companies tbh !

So you just want to slag off anyone who has a supplement company.

But Dougie aint the one to slag off mate or try and bellitle, he is a sound top fella who tries to help you all ( he has helped me loadsand others )and as such try showing him some respect ,as you are just making a point out of nothing and its getting a bit tedious to say the least mate !


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

totally agree..

the fact we have a supplement company on the forum who is kind enough to answer questions about his products is a good thing and very rare.

if you think GEE is better value then go and buy from MP.

KP do you use AAS if so how does the androgens effect your BP???

to be honest i am confused to what point you are trying to make.


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## ArnieBarmpot (Nov 23, 2005)

Ive read through this and ive had to chuckle, your all saying how nice and rosey it is to have advice from a supplement company on the forum, but when someone starts asking question as to the ingredients and salt content you all gang up and try to discredit them. Surely if were to spend our hard earned on these products then all questions should be welcomed.

If i ran a supplement company and somebody turned up asking me questions about a certain product i'd be more than happy to answer them, that is unless i had something to hide.

The main problem here i feel is that KingProp knows more about these products than people like to think.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

massive747 said:


> Kingpro, been reading your posts and you are a right one mate. Firstly you do come across as agressive and then when challenged say hey no beef !
> 
> Then you post- Hmmm. Im not in favour of supplement companies tbh !
> 
> ...


Challenged? Where? Please...Is that you Chris? Grammar lets you down bro!

Paul, I expect nothing less as he sponsors you.

Lets let Dougie respond eh?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> KP do you use AAS if so how does the androgens effect your BP???


Yes, but only recently. PB diagnosed me with a 5AR defiencey. The new avatar is me, with 3 cycles under my belt. 21 stone. The last one, and biggest, consisted of only 50mgs of prop ED with Dbol at 30mgs/d for the first 4 weeks. For the amount ive heard you use, im flabergasted at your size. All androgens affect BP.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Oh, and please put an 'e' after the double 'f' in difference. Its annoying me....


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## massive747 (Sep 4, 2004)

ARNIEBARMPOT, it is not a question of asking for details or answers but how its put and Kingpro later states he does not like supplement companys. Thats the beef hear mate, as for product Extreme are one of the best, my mate reps for them, and another mates son needed to bulk up for his rugby , Extreme products did it for him.He is going to make it big so the coaches and scouts say ! I personally can talk about Dougie as i know him and he is one of the most genuine people in the supplement industry, who takes the time to help you,irrespective of who you are or what affiliation you have with show bodies or supplement company.

KINGPRO just give it a rest mate its getting tiresome and boring now !

Paul knows his stuff so dont now start on him because you think Extreme sponsor him or not. Its about information and help/advice not all the bull or if you dont like supplements or not. I dont like many PRO'S so should i start having a go at you ! lmao.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Have you got anything construtive to add though? My concerns are real mate. I dont doubt Dougie is a good guy, thats not my beef or the issue. Im sure he is. Im simply bringing to the forefront real topics and concerns. Shoot me for being constructive will ya! Ive said throughout that if you scratch a little deeper than your ego's, you'll find im actually helping you out here re the future. Extreme really needs a technical contact. He doesnt have one which is a shame. It was only a matter of time before someome pulled him up.

I like supp companies that are for the consumer, not for total profit. Period!


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## massive747 (Sep 4, 2004)

Not shooting you mate , its all about how a question is asked pointed out and your statement about supplement companys in general. As for profit if that was Dougie or most British companies aim im sure the genuine ones would of given up years ago. Its a hard cut throat buisness to be in and a long slog to get anywhere near the top. I know Kerry Kayes very well and he will be the first to tell you how hard it is to make money out of supplements when starting off or even after a few years of tradeing.

Keep fireing the questions out mate as i for one like a good laugh and also am interested in some of the answers given to your ones too. !

But hey lets keep it all cival and we will get to the truth in the end.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Indeed, nice post! Lets go..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

kingprop said:


> Yes, but only recently. PB diagnosed me with a 5AR defiencey. The new avatar is me, with 3 cycles under my belt. 21 stone. The last one, and biggest, consisted of only 50mgs of prop ED with Dbol at 30mgs/d for the first 4 weeks. For the amount ive heard you use, im flabergasted at your size. All androgens affect BP.


Well it seems that you really just want to argue for the sake of it but to address the statement above...

then i must bow down to your more superior physique it seems you have great genetics but would really impress me would be if you could turn around and show me those great abs and massive legs .....i guess i will have to make the most of my very small and inferior 215lbs at 5'5"......

please let me know when your next show is so i can come along to support you.....

please don't lecture me on spelling when you cannot spell deficiency ...


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

why not post a nice full size pic up mate both front and back showing legs also


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I do feel propelled too with you Paul for some reason..Maybe because you'd say black is white if you gained out of it in some way.

Put it this way. I post on this site regarding UK-Bolics gear. I am not UK-B nor am I associated with him in any way yet you all came out against anything I had to say as it was unsubstantiated in your opinions. Yet I ask Dougie to back up a few statements and clarify a few ingredients and its all stand behind him. His opinion on GEE, which began this debate is unsubstantiated and it looked to me like he was trying to scare members away into using his product. Ive re-read my posts and I dont believe Ive been overly aggressive or even ar$ey. It appears I cant even question the validity of some things, including a rather strange research protocol.

So be it.

As ive said on muscleweb I will look to compete in September but I certainly wont be looking to put my body through the rigours of competition year after year getting nowhere. I shall give it one go, and that's it. I will succeed or fail. That's fine.

If you are a member of my site you can see more pictures of me (adding them all the time) and I will be running the whole series of photos from January on my site and muscleweb. I appreciate 'Bikers' input as the man knows what he's talking about.

And as for genetics.....maybe. Maybe it was because I built a base over time before using AAS. This, I believe, is more important. It always shows when someone takes them too early.

Oh and the spelling comment had a smiley after it. I was smiling......It was a joke. Well, I found it funny. It was tongue in cheek for silly comments.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

so please let me know why you think i would argue with you if i thought i would gain from it??

again you bring the UK BOlicks thread up now if you went back and read that you will see all i asked for was some proof to the claim that his gear was overdosed as was being stated exactly what all the MODs where asking for including Biker....

I am glad you are going to compete in September as i will also be in contest shape at that time now in your earlier post you have criticised my physique well that is your opinion we will see how you fair after you have dieted down to sub 5% BF....

i don't understand this comment "I certainly wont be looking to put my body through the rigours of competition year after year getting nowhere" because if this is aimed at me then you are so wrong i have got somewhere in BB i am currently the 6th best in britain in NABBA Class 4 and have a long list of other titles to show for the many years i have competed.

i compete because i enjoy to do it and i like to help others who also compete.

I am glad you are going to post your pictures up on Muscleweb as i will be again posting up my Diet and training progress along with pictures for my shows in April/May.

as for building a base over time and using them too early is this supposed to be a dig??

seeing as you have this great foundation please post up a picture of your Abs and Legs


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

I've had time to look over this whole thread and your posts Davy, they vary in intensity from inquisitive and genuine to aggressive, they also go from appearring helpfull and concerned to accusatory. You hint at Extreme products being of questionable quality and imply if something is not stated on a label then how can you trust the company?

Your comments are verging on libelous, but I'm presuming you have no access to any other supplement company owners so you are taking full advantage of having the ability to try and pick holes in me, my company and anyone who tends to agree with me.

Its ok Davy because I've done some homework on you too. You are very knowledgable on diet and food, you do your homework on anabolics and try to educate yourself as best you can, which is something more should do.

You were an advocate of Paul Borressens theories and a fan of his, this is why I think you are keen to have a pop at me. You say you have genuine concerns and are basically fighting for the truth for supplement buyers, I think you are bearing a grudge over issues long left behind of which you wont really know the whole story.

You are a big guy and are very strong, but will never cut it as a bodybuilder is the general concensus of opinion. Your are thought to be a really sound guy until you indulge yourself in GHB when you become argumentative and obnoxious, which IS how you are coming accross in many of the posts in this thread.

I will answer the sodium issue relating to our bars not for you Kingprop but for anyone else who has been reading this post. I cannot answer it right now because it is being calculated and there will be an analysis done to to confirm the calculation, and with the tone of this post I cannot afford to get it wrong because where will that lead?

I am happy to answer questions on anything relating to Extreme products and I registered on these forums so I could hopefully raise the profile of Extreme and show that we really are a company run by bodybuilders for the right reason. I'm sorry if it upsets you that I make money from what I do, I love motorsport but don't dislike car manufacturers and they make truckloads of money. King wake up to reality - everyone does things for reward, you get paid for your work just as I get paid for mine. I'm not a millionaire, I don't live a flash life and I work a lot of long hours, for me the biggest pleasure is not having to wear a suit every day or having someone keeping an eye on me all day.

My reason for this post is in response to your statement on how you don't like supp companies and how you advise people to source their own raw materials and make their own, so why do you care what a company like Extreme does or doesn't do? You don't like us.

The reason I've posted my findings on you pesonally are to highlight there is possibly more to this than you are letting on. It's not my fault Borressen is dead, you may have liked his theories but all he did was give false hope to the hopeless (me included in that because I fell for it too), I was lucky to be close enough to see the real man and see the damage he did, almost costing several lives.

I don't know where you arrive at the "no technical support" supposition, I have discussed more of Extremes business than I should with you as all you want to do is criticise and pick fault. I suggest if you are concerned about the sodium content of our bars, don't buy them untill I post the content, that is if you ever bought them anyway.

You stick to buying bags of raw materials and you use all your knowledge to manufacture Davy Kingprops Super Formula and I'll look forward to seeing you compete in september, hell if you do want to step on stage I'll supply you your Pro Tan and Dream Tan FREE, there you go, even after all this you have a sponsor for part of your contest prep. (p.s. you can't make that yourself).

As far as I'm concerned this post is closed, if you want to discuss further King call me on 0870 112 1239 to arrange a coffee or to tell me your other concerns, but all this long drawn out BS with a pedantic cynic hold no appeal to me.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

A friend read over this thread and mentioned that I have become a bit personal toward Paul in my comments. For this I apologise to him. It was not my intention for the thread to go this way.

You can draw reasoning for my comments toward you Dougie from which ever cloud you are on mate. This has nothing to do with PB. This has nothing to do with Musclechat (more suprised you didnt think of that one tbh, Steve ripped me off and screwed me over yet you continue to fund his crappy board) But its not that either....

It began, as stated, with your comments on GEE. Your unfounded and biased post in a thread I was participating in. Nothing I have said can be construed as libelous, I am merely asking you questions. The same as I ask the reps from Reflex and, my favourite target - Maximuscle (Now, I do get ar$ey with them for sure because they litterally PREY on the newbies) Mind you, they knew total salt of their bars when I asked. (unless it was a porkie-pie!)

As for the GHB....yeah. I enjoyed it. Calorie free. Since my first son was born (he's 3 and a half) ive not touched it but it was only a recreational thing, and something to relieve the boredom of being a bouncer. The information you have is from the person that used to sell it to me. He told me some stories about cocaine. Cocaine was never my thing....

So, aside from all this rubbish. There is no personal attack at you. I would appreciate final bar analysis as this will either make me right or wrong. As ive stated to Biker I like being proved wrong, it means ive learnt something and that is one reason I come to the net. If you really believe it is because I simply dont like you or your company, you are wrong. If it has come across as such then I apologise for this. Again, not my intention when beginning all this but perhaps just a response to some answers.

The new avatar is for Paul. Please read my posts at biohazard concerning my lower back and note that I do not train my legs. Leg day for the past year has been inversion, stretching, light good mornings and light lunges. Since their advice ive been incorporating light front squats. I do however cycle a lot!

For a 36 inch inside leg, they're not too bad....And if you might question whether a big guy like me can get cut, I can, but it wont involve rHGH. Im too scared of cancer.

I'll leave this thread now, and the forum as I believe ive made my point. I see the thread has had 1,400+ views. Please those that have signed up for my forum I wont be approving anyone until the new year. Sorry.

Im off now to make my Davy Kingprop super formula..hehe...I like that, but thought something like Dangerous Daves' Dymatize. Or perhaps you'd call it Maxi-Muppets MRP. As thats clearly what you think I am.

Oh well, I wont lose any sleep.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think there might be some confusion on salt and hypertension.

Salt can give some hypertension but is not the case for all just the ones that are sensitive to salt.

Weight loss is more effective in lowering blood pressure than sodium reduction,

Remember, salt and chloride are essential nutrients. Restricting their intake can lead to medical problems.

Salt deprivation has been found to be a common cause of chronic fatigue syndrome.

Studies have shown that salt restriction may be linked to organ damage, especially kidney disease and left ventricular hypertrophy.

If the heart and kidneys are damaged by hyponatremia (low blood sodium), you may make the hypertension worse.

Salt is an essential nutrient, just like vitamin A, the fatty acids and cholesterol.

Vigorous restriction of salt in the diet may throw your other essential minerals into disarray in induce hypertension.

Salt restriction in the summer months could lead to heat exhaustion, a severe mineral disturbance that causes fainting and sometimes a stroke or a heart attack in the susceptible elderly.

Not all salt is created equal.

Morton's salt (the most common in the US) is an industrial product, made for the chemical industry and not your table. Ninety percent of this industrial grade salt goes to the chemical industry and the rest goes to the grocery store.

I only eat sea salt myself, a bit more expensive but much better.

If it is not light grey, it is not a nutritious salt.

Science has established that the mineral content of sea water is practically the same as blood in the body of a healthy human.

Therefore, the consumption of natural mineralized sea salt may be directly beneficial to maintaining good health and preventing disease.

The inorganic iodine sometimes added to table salt has been shown to pass in the urine within 20 minutes and to be completely excreted within 20 hours. However, natural organic forms of iodine as found in algae, sea plants and fish remain in the body fluids an average of 48 hours. Traces of this iodine can also still be found active in the body for several weeks.

There is nothing more important to your digestion than adequate whole salt.

Salivary amylase, the primary digestive enzyme in the mouth, is activated by salt.

Also in the mouth salt activates the taste buds. Whereas, the salt substitutes (there is no substitute, only other salts that are not sodium chloride, such as the popular potassium chloride.) only weakly stimulate the taste buds.

Continuing down the digestive tract, salt stimulates the parietal cells in the stomach lining to generate hydrochloric acid, essential for proper digestion. Fake salt. i.e., potassium salt rather than sodium salt, blocks enzymatic pathways and thus interferes with hydrochloric acid production.

Glycosides in grains are not digested without the presence of salt.

Our bodies contain approximately 450gms (1 pound) of salt, which must be kept replenished in order to maintain our normal health and vigor. Biological demands require that the salt concentration in the blood and the body fluids be maintained at a constant level.

Benefits of salt:

Digestion- sodium is necessary for the production of hydrochloric acid in the stomach.

Balancing blood sugar levels- a needed element in diabetics.

Nerve cell communication.

Making the structure of bones firm-about 50% of the body's sodium is found in the bones.

Extraction of excess acidity out of the cells in the body, particularly the brain cells.

Clearing the lungs of mucus plugs and sticky phlegm, particularly in asthma and cystic fibrosis.

Clearing up catarrh and congestion of the sinuses.

Preventing muscle cramps. Sodium and potassium are involved in muscle contraction and expansion, and nerve stimulation.

Maintaining acid balance in the blood- sodium functions with potassium to equalize the acid-alkali factor in the blood.

Regulating the water content in the body.

Maintaining the balance between the volume of water inside the cells and the outside the cells of the body.

Assisting the function of the brain.

Assisting the healing of wounds and cuts.

Refrence:

Robert and Isabel Showe (alchemy)

William Campbell Douglass MD (The Hypertension Report)


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## chris jenkins (Aug 14, 2004)

kingprop said:


> Challenged? Where? Please...Is that you Chris? Grammar lets you down bro!
> 
> Paul, I expect nothing less as he sponsors you.
> 
> Lets let Dougie respond eh?


I post with my real name. If your speaking about me....


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

Paul Govier said:


> Well,
> 
> What can i say - Easilly the BEST tasting bar i have ever had.
> 
> ...


not read all replies, but how much are these mate!?


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

RRP £20, board members £15 inc delivery, but either e-mail me to say you've ordered or put that you are a board member and your screen name in the comments box.


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## Galtonator (Jul 21, 2004)

i could eat these till im sick they rock!


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

EXTREME said:


> We have a university testing program running at Heriot Watt too, not the kind of thing someone making bogus products would invest in, or any other supplements manufacturers in the UK for that matter.


Yes, im still alive! So, the bar has now been relabelled as total salt content 0.24% where before it listed added salt as 0.24%. Which one was wrong then?

I also see the bars have been relabelled 'Nutri Pro bars' instead of just Nutri (meaning nutritious I presume?) Bars. In real terms what does 0.24% actually mean in milligrams please? 240mgs?

Also, results from the University testing programme? The one where you changed subjects half way through from Cyclists to swimmers. And who conducted the research?

Im not here to be antagonistic btw.


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Nutri Pro Bars are not the same as Nutri Bars, they are a different formula now so the stats have changed. You're a clever man David so you know how many milligrams it is, you don't need to ask me.

What about the testing program? Yet again your tone stinks of cynicism when you say "The one where you changed subjects half way through from Cyclists to swimmers." The study ran for 18 months and it involved 3 different studies and they were testing for different things. The study was carried out by Heriot Watt Uni, as is stated in the quote you've used. The results will be published when we deem the time to be right and we have time to market them fully, we currently have a lot of things going on and are not ready to publicise the findings as yet.

I don't know why any of this concerns you Davy, you dredge up an old post and start off where you left off by being antagonistic, you don't like supplement companies, you don't buy our products but still find time to try and pick faults - why?

If you want to meet up at the UKBFF finals to discuss this further I'd be happy to oblige.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I did state that im not being antagonistic, as im not. Its nothing personal. If you put yourself out there with certain statements being made then you expect to be asked about them surely?

I read now that the original research into a creatine monohydrate formula has changed to a buffered ceatine. You also mention now that its being tested on your athletes; another change in variables. This all leads me to question why you are doing this research. You obviously wouldnt spend money unless it benefits your company. The research into buffered creatine is done, hence why it made it to market, and its recent. I cant see the benefits to you in conducting further tests. Its certainly not to sell more because as someone posted you can pick it up much cheaper on Ebay, or whatever online shop he used. And yes, it will be real so don't try and put people off by stating that they didn't buy it from the patent holder when they don't need to. It could be a Chinese generic/copy after all. They could buy it as one company then fold it before paying taxes, then starting another one up. You must be paying less than £8 a pot otherwise it wouldn't be worth your while.

I wont be going to Nottingham as im at a conference in Jersey on the 13th and don't fly back till late. I don't think I would want to talk with you though. I went to the Scottish with every intention of speaking with you but when I got there and saw you I couldn't think past your comments on GHB. You crossed over the personal line before I did and that thought made me angry. I didn't stop my wife buying a top from your stall though mind.

So, new bars? Same ingredients, same flavours though aren't they? Adding just salt to the end of the ingredient list still means its an ingredient; its added. There's still no total salt content when you take into account the sodium caseinate and coconut paste. Is it so unreasonable to ask for total salt content? Id like you to state the total salt content now as im willing to send the bar for salt analysis to see who's right and who's wrong. If you think im so wrong then analyse it and show everyone else. You never did get back to me as you promised with final bar analysis. I think what you've gone for with these is taste first, then tried to gloss over final contents within legal parameters. Perhaps any research into undenatured proteins in final bar would be better for you? Sodium caseinate is treated with acid to obtain it, then you are treating it to heat to form a bar. Heat and acidity denature proteins, you have a double whammy which is why no-one else uses it. It may make your bar taste nice though huh?

Where's the 'unfair advantage' in that?


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Kingprop you just dont give up do you??

This thread was just under 2 years old, why keep questioning Extreme? No matter what Doug says, you'll try and oppose. Either swallow your pride, get over it and buy from him, or as suggested - go to MP


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Why do I smell the flavor of a personal attack on extreme here?


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

I agree Scott,this is obviously a personal issue that runs deeper than the salt content of Extreme's products.


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

It's pathetic, that's what it is.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

If I was that concerned about my BP I'd stop using gear.

This is going to be worse for BP and cholesterol than a protein bar would be.

I'm not sponsored by Extreme but I can say with some certainty that there are worse behaving companies in terms of product labelling than them.

Why dont you get on Maximuscle's case? They sell some really sh*t stuff.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I have. Straight to Zeff. Ive also questioned Gary Howells' Biohazard Ravager, so this isnt a PB thing. PB claimed that mixing it with milk would ruin the amino profile. My arguement was that it doesnt matter so much at the first point of digestion (mouth) but at active transport and supply of aminos to the nitrogen pool. Also, some of the ingredients are very old now and better proteins are available. I wrote to Reflex about their attack against maltodextrin for being just one type of carb when their new barley carb was introduced. DE dextrose equivalent being more important. If I see just 'maltodextrin' labelled without anything else it leads you to question from what source, cheap or expensive.

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/archive/1997/0897DE.html

This isnt a 'I hate Extreme' thing honest. I question everything that doesnt seem quite right or that can be kind of misleading. Surely you'd want someone to point out something that may be putting off potential buyers, or that other companies may criticise?

Everyone has something go 'wrong' with them when they take gear. I can control my BP through keeping a check on my salt intake and gear amounts. Some get acne, gyno, emotional problems, urinary problems, kidney pains ad nauseum. I guess the options are stop gear, try and do something about it whilst still taking gear, or not bother at all and carry on regardless.

Off the top of my head re research protocols worth looking at..

Vitargo, and other new carbs in the carbing up process for competing bodybuilders. All research ive read is for endurance athletes.

Carb/protein bars specifically designed for those who use insulin. Structured carbohydrates to prevent hypos. (I could go on for hours about this topic and some of the info on the internet about slin protocols)

The post workout 'window of opportunity' Does it really exist for bodybuilders? I say no.

Internet bodybuilders responsibilties. Recent busts have shown how we can and will be held responsible for many things in future regarding the information we put out there for all to see. If we come together and tighten up this ship we sail in it may last a little longer at sea, so to speak. It'll only take one young kid to mess himself up and say 'I read it here though and thought it was ok'

Sorry, look, if im talking ****e then ill leave it be.


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## Harry1436114491 (Oct 8, 2003)

Good post above I can finally see where you are coming from, but TBH your previous posts just purely looked like a full out attack on Extreme when as Tom says there are a hell of a lot worst out there.


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