# how do you know if your shut down?



## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Just wanted to know how you know if your shutdown?


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

be interesting to have someone with loads of knoledge answer this, i have asked pscarb something simular he seemed to think you may just get use to amounts not actually shut down

of course by doing things properly time on pct then off this wouldnt be in question


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

when did i say that?? when using any steroid you will get suppression of the HPTA sometimes as quickly as the first week obviously the length of cycle and dose used has a big influence on how quickly you shutdown.

the most efficient way is to have extensive blood tests done before during and after cycle...you can guarantee one thing though you will shut down way fast than you will recover...


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

sorry i asked you about receptors shutting down with me doing a long cycle in show prep............he means natural test production does he

my bad ;-)


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> when did i say that?? when using any steroid you will get suppression of the HPTA sometimes as quickly as the first week obviously the length of cycle and dose used has a big influence on how quickly you shutdown.
> 
> the most efficient way is to have extensive blood tests done before during and after cycle...you can guarantee one thing though you will shut down way fast than you will recover...


so without a blood test theres no way of telling if your shutdown or recovered?


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## punkfloyd (Dec 26, 2007)

Not accurately mate no...


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

punkfloyd said:


> Not accurately mate no...


So is there no sort of way of telling, i.e in the way your feeling etc?

I realise that for a 100% accuracy you need a blood test.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Morning erections may give you some indication but it is by no means 100%


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## punkfloyd (Dec 26, 2007)

Shaney - like taxes and death - shutdown or at very least blunting of the function of the HPTA is inevitable with AAS use.

Some people it affects worse than others and some compounds affect people worse than others, but as an indicator - age dependant of course - frequency and potency of erections, testicular volume, general feelings of well being and mood, libido are all indicators that you can use without getting blood work done.

If you haven't had a boner for four days and then all you can produce is a Mr Floppy, then your definately shutdown...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

punkfloyd is correct shutdown is inevitable some try to avoid it by saying they are using small doses or only taking AAS at certain times of the day but the fact is that using any steroids at a dose that will promote muscle growth will shut you down, recovery is the grey area as like most things many react differently to the standard PCT drugs...

i have been shutdown for 8months before (measured by blood tests) but i felt ok and had morning glory months before that my nuts regained size but i was still suppressed.....

It takes months to fully recover all you have to ask yourself is do you need to fully recover to then shutdown again on another 8 week cycle??

there is no way you will recover after a 4 week PCT all PCT does is is set you up to recovery it is then your choice to stay off long enough to fully recover the problem is that many don't.....including me


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> punkfloyd is correct shutdown is inevitable some try to avoid it by saying they are using small doses or only taking AAS at certain times of the day but the fact is that using any steroids at a dose that will promote muscle growth will shut you down, recovery is the grey area as like most things many react differently to the standard PCT drugs...
> 
> i have been shutdown for 8months before (measured by blood tests) but i felt ok and had morning glory months before that my nuts regained size but i was still suppressed.....
> 
> ...


Well all seems well at te moment 4 weeks off and a week into my pct which unfortunately is only tamoxen at 20/20/20/20!

probably more randy now than i was on. strength or weight hasn't dropped and feel good, just a few spots on my shoulders.

Do you agree with the time on time off rule as sufficient amount of time to recover before starting your next cycle?


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

you need nolva asap mate, a dose of 20mg tamoxifen will do fook all imo


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## genesis (Jul 4, 2006)

There the same thing you silly billy


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

thought it would be better than nothing?

haven't got anything else and like i say i'm 1 week in!

And before you say, i know i should of had all this sorted before hand and will definately have on my next cycle.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

genesis said:


> There the same thing you silly billy


**** i meant clomid, my heads fryed.lol


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

genesis said:


> There the same thing you silly billy


lol. i assumed he meant clomid.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

your right mate, was thinking nolva when you said tamoxifen and ended up writing it instead of clomid? as for people saying youy should have it sorted out.... never worry, this game is al about trial and error


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

shaney77777 said:


> Do you agree with the time on time off rule as sufficient amount of time to recover before starting your next cycle?


as i wrote in my last post time off is a personel choice you will not be recovered in a matter of weeks the longer you have off the better you will be recovered this is fact.....

So it is down to you how long you stay off for 2 weeks or 2months but without getting bloods done you will never know how well you have recovered...

so you have just completed a cycle so when are you getting your bloods done? if you are not why not?


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> as i wrote in my last post time off is a personel choice you will not be recovered in a matter of weeks the longer you have off the better you will be recovered this is fact.....
> 
> So it is down to you how long you stay off for 2 weeks or 2months but without getting bloods done you will never know how well you have recovered...
> 
> so you have just completed a cycle so when are you getting your bloods done? if you are not why not?


i'm in the army and don't think it's really wise to go see my army doc!

Have you got any advice on how else i could have it done?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes mate their are companys that do this privatly James L used one before not sure of the name maybe pm him and ask..


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> yes mate their are companys that do this privatly James L used one before not sure of the name maybe pm him and ask..


Thanks Pscarb, can't seem to find him on the members list but i'll look into getting it done.

how soon after would you say's a good time to have them done?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

id like to also add that all these ppl doing the 21 on 21 off on dbol will also be shutdown also on minimal amouints, maybe 5-10mg, a kid I know had bloodwork that proved this, I might be able to get it put up if I think on.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

shaney77777 said:


> Thanks Pscarb, *can't seem to find him on the members list but i'll look into getting it done.*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


Supercell

try these for private blood work, not cheap though, but private and confidential and by someone who trains himself and is a MD.

www.thedoctorltd.co.uk


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

Can you just go to your doctor and say "Yo doc, can you take my blood and give me all my levels" or ? o_o


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Five-O said:


> Supercell
> 
> try these for private blood work, not cheap though, but private and confidential and by someone who trains himself and is a MD.
> 
> www.thedoctorltd.co.uk


thanks mate, not to worried about the price, it's gotta be done and in this way. i'll check them out and let you know how i get on.


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

YetiMan said:


> Can you just go to your doctor and say "Yo doc, can you take my blood and give me all my levels" or ? o_o


don't really wanna risk it to be honest mate. i'll go private


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

shane for you i agree going to your Army Doc is not an option, Yeti - yes mate that is pretty much what you do and one of two things will happen..

1 - you get a huge lecture on steroid use and get told to sod off and stop wasting their time

2 - you will get a huge lecture on steroids but they will give you the checks so that the stuff you are taking is not causing any damage...

i am lucky to have a Doc that fits into number 2...


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> shane for you i agree going to your Army Doc is not an option, Yeti - yes mate that is pretty much what you do and one of two things will happen..
> 
> 1 - you get a huge lecture on steroid use and get told to sod off and stop wasting their time
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for that, might go private then as dont really want it going on record cause they are all up them selfs at my local one.

Thanks for the info though mate


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Five-O said:


> id like to also add that all these ppl doing the 21 on 21 off on dbol will also be shutdown also on minimal amouints, maybe 5-10mg, a kid I know had bloodwork that proved this, I might be able to get it put up if I think on.


Who does 21 on 21 off on small doses, I know OSC recomends *14* on/ 14 or 21 off, this is of course very different, 10mg of d-bol over 14 days will shut you down 40%-50% on average, 5mg less - around the 30% mark. T-bol has no effect on exogenous test production at 20mg a day............ good old German olympic team tested the hell out of that AAS, so much info on it  .


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

T-Bol will suppress your HPTA like any other steroid the only difference is how long it will take...

please guys do not be foolish to think you can beat the system or to think you control what your body does the fact is no matter how you cycle what you cycle and for how long you cycle if you are using an amount that will promote muscle growth eventually you will be suppressed....


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Not sure how good of an idea this is as they may look into it more due to being in the army but you could go see your doc and tell him you think you have low testosterone levels due to a number of side effects you are getting that you can find on the internet if need be.

This way he will proberly test you to check without you having to tell him the reason why your test levels could be low.

Its something im thinking of doing as i cant get to the discus clinic anymore as i work away and dont want to risk the doctor telling me to stop wasting there time as pscarb pointed out.

Just a thought but for yourself the private labs may be a better idea.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

> Just wanted to know how you know if your shutdown?


comp screen will be blank lol

sorry couldnt resist that


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## shaney77777 (Nov 10, 2007)

Chris4Pez said:


> comp screen will be blank lol
> 
> sorry couldnt resist that


Very ammusing, but that would be how you'd tell if your computer is shut down.:cool:


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

^^^^^ WTF!!! stop scamming and the prices of those are a rip off


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## albie (Mar 16, 2007)

This maybe a silly question , can you get to point when you cant be 'shutdown' beyond a certain level?

What i mean by this is, if a cycle lasts for example 20wk , would the level of suppression by significantly less than a longer cycle, say 30wk .. or do you just each a point where the suppression cant get any 'worse'.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

well initially you will be suppressed then this will lead to shutdown once this has been reached you cannot be shutdown x 2 but the longer you are shutdown the harder and longer it will take to recover...


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## Cliff (May 2, 2010)

Sorry if this is a silly question, but I'm new to this part of bodybuilding so I'm trying to improve my level of knowledge.

So far, I'm under the impression that to recover from shutdown/suppression, there are 3 options:

1. injectable test booster

2. otc option like trib

3. wait for natural occurence

Is there any negatives for waiting for natural recovery??


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

^ You lose all your gains as you dont have the hormone levels to support the muscle mass or synthesize enough protein...

And those aren't your only three options, read the PCT stickies great info and you will be more knowledgeable than when you went in there


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Cliff said:


> Sorry if this is a silly question, but I'm new to this part of bodybuilding so I'm trying to improve my level of knowledge.
> 
> So far, I'm under the impression that to recover from shutdown/suppression, there are 3 options:
> 
> ...


why comment on 3 year old thread ?

start a new one asking the question or search using the stickies .

but to answer it you need hcg and pct .


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Cliff said:


> Sorry if this is a silly question, but I'm new to this part of bodybuilding so I'm trying to improve my level of knowledge.
> 
> So far, I'm under the impression that to recover from shutdown/suppression, there are 3 options:
> 
> ...


no mate these are not the only options to be fair you would not inject a test booster to recover the HPTA as it would have the opposite effect, Trib is less than useless yes it will make you horny but do nothing for recovery....

your 3rd option is true but the quickest way would be a solid PCT have a read of Hackski's threads on the subject as he really knows his stuff.



uhan said:


> why comment on 3 year old thread ?
> 
> start a new one asking the question or search using the stickies .
> 
> but to answer it you need hcg and pct .


now this is what confuses me, there are many on this board that have a go at newbies for starting new threads on a subject that has been asked before....this guy has obvouisly searched the subject hence why he has found this thread maybe answering his question would help him more than have him start yet another thread on PCT?? just a thought


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

reason for starting a new thread is since this thread started and indeed the start of this year new members have signed up so keeping a fresh thread would be far easier also newbies scroll through a few pages then give up looking for the answer so maybe it would be a great idea to collate relevant threads together in one place for us all to sub to so we can then paste that thread/s for the new guys rather than seeing the same old questions and raising peoples tempers at the sight of them .

i would like to see ....

1- diet sticky

2- pct sticky

3- steroid sticky

4- hcg sticky

5- on cycle ancillary sticky

a section with them 5 in with just info on them nothing else , it would mean ease of answering such questions as above we can all sub to them then post links ...just a thought


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i dont understand the reason for the post above?? this board has a huge amount of information this member has searched and come across this thread so asked a question it does not matter the thread is a 1, 2 or 3yrs old......as for raising tempers? why would your temper be raised because someone has asked a question you once asked?

i am sure you would love to see these stickys but they all exist....do you really think by having these 5 stickys in one section would stop people asking questions? people will ask questions because a sticky does not lay out a plan of attack for everyone just the base to the knowledge on that subject.......

and who will compile these stickies? what would we do with the existing stickies? how would you suggest we make these stickies applicable to every member? interested in your thoughts on how to place this thought into action?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

firstly i wasnt talking about my temper but i have seen many first posts about guys using dbol first time without understanding the stuff then post on here some members help some get aggro ... not a good image .

people will still ask questions but my point is to be able to point people in the direction of the basic info they seek.

ok so i had a look in different sections for the basic info in stickies for different aspects like i listed but they are very long posts and not easy to find .

i have subbed to hacks understanding pct and docs protocol for hcg also to baymans basic diet set up but still would be good to have info on gear something short kind of an intro as in the other as mentioned stickies .

while i understand somebody has to take time to do this i think once done it will prove invaluable , im not technical thats maybe why i struggle finding info if such things already exists then excuse my post and i will keep searching , but like a house you need basic foundations the rest is down to each individual all im asking for is one place to host the basic stickies that are already out there somewhere easier to find .


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

my point mate is that we can have a million stickys detailing all the aspects of diet, gear, training etc but newbies to the board won't necasserily go to them as there question is unique to them.....or at least they feel it is....we have loads of stickys more will not solve this issue.

the forum is here for people to ask questions just as i did when i first joined, i agree with you members losing there temper is not a goo image to put across and this is why i always jump on those posts....


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> my point mate is that we can have a million stickys detailing all the aspects of diet, gear, training etc but newbies to the board won't necasserily go to them as there question is unique to them.....or at least they feel it is....we have loads of stickys more will not solve this issue.
> 
> the forum is here for people to ask questions just as i did when i first joined, i agree with you members losing there temper is not a goo image to put across and this is why i always jump on those posts....


Agreed. People can do their own research, but sometimes just asking more knowledgeable people (EG on a forum) is a method of research. If people can't or don't want to answer questions fair enough. But it seems there are a lot of posters about who just want to dismiss people or ridicule them for their posts. It's not a good look and I think the moderators are right to jump on people for it.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

anyone know any good strength training forums ?


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## Cliff (May 2, 2010)

Bad Alan said:


> ^ You lose all your gains as you dont have the hormone levels to support the muscle mass or synthesize enough protein...
> 
> And those aren't your only three options, read the PCT stickies great info and you will be more knowledgeable than when you went in there


Thanks Alan.



Pscarb said:


> no mate these are not the only options to be fair you would not inject a test booster to recover the HPTA as it would have the opposite effect, Trib is less than useless yes it will make you horny but do nothing for recovery....
> 
> your 3rd option is true but the quickest way would be a solid PCT have a read of Hackski's threads on the subject as he really knows his stuff.


Thanks Pscarb.

The above options for recovery were laid out on another bbing website, so decided to do a bit more research on a more reliable source so turned to the search feature on this forum and as it was relative to what I needed to find out, I submitted a post.



Pscarb said:


> now this is what confuses me, there are many on this board that have a go at newbies for starting new threads on a subject that has been asked before....this guy has obvouisly searched the subject hence why he has found this thread maybe answering his question would help him more than have him start yet another thread on PCT?? just a thought


This.


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