# The truth about Tren?



## arthuroarti (Nov 26, 2011)

Hi everyone. I am starting my test/tren cycle in 2 weeks time and am really looking forward to it. There are some anecdotes about Tren that I have read about countless times and just wanted to ask your opinion on these claims and anecdotes.

1) Tren burns fat and dries you up- to what extent is it true. If my maintenance is 2600 kcal, and I decide to lean bulk on 3100 when on test/tren, will I gain muscle while losing fat?

2) People claiming they can eat very high calories on tren while gaining mass and losing bodyfat. My off-cycle maintenance is 2600 kcal. When bulking on just test or naturally I eat 3100 kcal. How is it different when on Tren? Should I eat 4000 calories as per anecdotes people do not gain fat on tren?

3) Claims that tren gains are easier to retain and are more pronounced than other compounds.

than you


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Do we always have to make things so complicated :confused1:

Just pin it and eat and watch yourself grow and get stronger. Just be sensible and you wont have any problems.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

What he said ^. Tren is great just use it and find out for your self. If you were to be asking about ancillaries then different story. Your asking about diet, If you wanna bulk eat above maintenance, recomp about maintenance, cut below maintenance its not rocket science here.


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## arthuroarti (Nov 26, 2011)

Sean91 said:


> Do we always have to make things so complicated :confused1:
> 
> Just pin it and eat and watch yourself grow and get stronger. Just be sensible and you wont have any problems.


You are so right, but these anecdotes about Tren confuse me so much. My habit is to stay 10-12 bf% during the year, so I am always trying my best not to gain body fat even when bulking. On one hand, I am doing tren to maximize the gains in mass, but have to be cautious about fat gain. Nevertheless, anecdotes where folks eat 4k+ calories, gain good mass while losing! fat on Tren defy my idea about calorie/energy balance


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## arthuroarti (Nov 26, 2011)

RowRow said:


> What he said ^. Tren is great just use it and find out for your self. If you were to be asking about ancillaries then different story. Your asking about diet, If you wanna bulk eat above maintenance, recomp about maintenance, cut below maintenance its not rocket science here.


Read articles saying that tren burns fat and one can eat more calories than bulking naturally/on other gear while gaining mass and losing fat.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Just suck it and see. Use your normal bulking macros. If you feel after a couple of weeks you can increase them and not gain more fat then do so.


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## Goldigger (May 28, 2011)

Moooooo...


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Dont worry about gaining fat on cycle, just keep diet clean but you may still gain fat without helping it due to the excess in calorie intake.

Either bulk or cut..you can only have ONE master.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

I noticed after long term use of Tren i gained a LOT of strength, lost bodyfat - clean diet but not calorie restrictive

annoying things about it i found was bodyheat -- was hot all the time especially in bed-- ended up sleeping with a fan on me, insomnia ive never suffered with this before but on tren i struggled with sleep

luckily i had some zopiclones on hand

after a couple of months on tren i realised i felt very lethargic i think this is due to depleted thyroid production, so i started supplimenting T4

Tren is a fantastic aas


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

GTT said:


> I noticed after long term use of Tren i gained a LOT of strength, lost bodyfat - clean diet but not calorie restrictive
> 
> annoying things about it i found was bodyheat -- was hot all the time especially in bed-- ended up sleeping with a fan on me, insomnia ive never suffered with this before but on tren i struggled with sleep
> 
> ...


Would you say that the gains are well-retained or do they quickly fade?

(I'm of course presuming a proper PCT otherwise it's obvious that gains are lost.)

Do you consider tren really suppressive?


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> Would you say that the gains are well-retained or do they quickly fade?
> 
> *(I'm of course presuming a proper PCT otherwise it's obvious that gains are lost.)*
> 
> Do you consider tren really suppressive?


 :lol: riiiigght......


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## Jonsey911 (Jan 1, 2012)

GTT said:


> I noticed after long term use of Tren i gained a LOT of strength, lost bodyfat - clean diet but not calorie restrictive
> 
> annoying things about it i found was bodyheat -- was hot all the time especially in bed-- ended up sleeping with a fan on me, insomnia ive never suffered with this before but on tren i struggled with sleep
> 
> ...


did the t4 help mate? at what dose did you run it? 2days on/2days off?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

GTT said:


> I noticed after long term use of Tren i gained a LOT of strength, lost bodyfat - clean diet but not calorie restrictive
> 
> annoying things about it i found was bodyheat -- was hot all the time especially in bed-- ended up sleeping with a fan on me, insomnia ive never suffered with this before but on tren i struggled with sleep
> 
> ...


sorry mate, there is no way your lethargy is from thyroid being depleted by ANY anabolic agent. In fact, if this where the case, Tren would not be able to put on any skeletal muscle.

Look at page 176:

http://jas.fass.org/content/61/Supplement_2/154.full.pdf

it notes that if you are to low on t3/t4 you won't get growth of muscle, and of course to high, and its catabolic. The reason i use that study, is it mentions tren specificially under androgenic agents.

At any rate, you've made a mistake in your logic/assumption.

tren is a reasonably strong androgen, and all androgens at high doses can cause CNS stimulation, which can be experienced as insomnia.



Jonsey911 said:


> did the t4 help mate? at what dose did you run it? 2days on/2days off?


of course it didn't help unless he had an underlying issue. More to the point, its only when running GH that your T4 levels could deplete:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6782790

as you can see, running GH means more T4 is converted to T3, so you would need to supplement T4 when taking GH. This is also argued here:

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/thyroid-hormone-growth-hormone/

however, there IS NO evidence that AAS deplete "thyroid levels"


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> Would you say that the gains are well-retained or do they quickly fade?
> 
> (I'm of course presuming a proper PCT otherwise it's obvious that gains are lost.)
> 
> Do you consider tren really suppressive?


Um, i don't care HOW "proper" your PCT is (and lets face it 99.9% here have NEVER run proper PCT, as you can't unless you run weekly (daily better) blood tests of your Test and oestrogen levels etc) the FACT is, your GAINS will FADE in a few months... AT BEST... because you cannot sustain on your natural testosterone levels, an amount of muscle that you needed EXTRA androgens/anabolic agents to build in the first place... and now you know why everyone KEEPS doing cycles, not just to get ahead, but to keep catching up on where they where last cycle.... the smart ones figure out, time of is time going backwards....

Paul Borresson never recommmended more than 3 weeks of cycle....



PowerHouseMcGru said:


> :lol: riiiigght......


yep, McGru.... you know how this all works :thumb:


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

> however, there IS NO evidence that AAS deplete "thyroid levels"


I`ll check your links in a mo.

I just know that ive done plenty of test/ other aas cycles and this was my first proper tren cycle and i couldnt for the life of me figure out why i had no motivation to do anything even train - yet i looked awesome and was building strength and muscle (so i knew it wasnt over training or diet)

so googled and found a LOT of references to Tren and depleted thyroid function

just searching like this brings up laods of stuff

https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=tren+thyroid&oq=tren+thyroid&aq=f&aqi=g1g-bK2&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i8i30l2.1253.4125.0.4316.12.12.0.0.0.0.274.2020.0j10j2.12.0...0.0.Qy0JDbuIa7U&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=67f77910ad999297&biw=1680&bih=953

anyway i got some T4s ran 2-300 mcg a day -- ps on a side not LOVE T4s over T3 dont know why but I can actually feel them more -yes i know T3 is the stronger and you`ll only convert whatever T4 you need to T3

so yes the T4 helped the Lethargy - wouldnt say totally eliminated it but helped me carry on -- i was on Tren for about 8 months i reckon

Im just going off my own personal experience here i dont know the science behind it all


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