# B|GJOE's 2010 Pre-Competition Journal



## B-GJOE

Here it is guys, the journal you have been waiting for.........or not.

My pre-contest prep starts tomorrow morning at 6am.

I will be competing in the following shows:

1. East Anglian 6th Jun Great Yarmouth

2. Mr Lincolnshire 3rd Jul Sleaford

3. Mr Peterborough 4th Jul Peterborough

Prep will be pretty much the same as year. 2 Weeks pure keto followed by CKD

Goal

To hit the stage at 200lbs (6lbs heavier than last year) same upper body condition as last year, but more detail in my glutes, hams, and calves.

Current Heigh 5'11" (Will not mention this again, as I hope it will not change)

Current Weight 230lbs

Current Bodyfat 15%

Training for the next 2 weeks will be as follows. When I changes I'll add to the Journal.

Cardio

Mon AM 60Mins

Mon PM 60Mins

Tue AM 60Mins

Tue PM 45Mins

Wed AM 60Mins

Wed PM 60Mins

Thu AM 60Mins

Thu PM 45Mins

Fri AM 60Mins

Sat AM 45Mins

Sun AM 60Mins

Training

Tue PM Back, Chest

Thu PM Shoulders, Arms

Sat AM Legs, Abs

Training Style

6 Working Sets for Major Body Parts, 4 for Minor Body Parts. Exercises conducted with strict slow form about 8 seconds per rep. 1 Minute rest between sets only.

Back

Seated Rows X 3

Wide Grip Pull Down X 3

Dead Lifts X 3

Chest

Dumbbell Fly X 3

Incline Press X 3

Shoulders

Lat Raises X 3

Shoulder Press X 3

Biceps

Preacher Curl X 2

Drag Curl X 2

Tricep

Pushdowns X 2

Dips X 2

Legs

Extensions X 3

Leg Press X 3

Leg Curl X 3

Calf Raise X 3

Incline Situps X 3

Keto Diet

The following will be a typical Keto. As I am not going refeed for first 2 weeks, will not post the carb up yet.

Meal 1

6 Whole Omega 3 Eggs (Approx Weight 350g)

Protein 43.75

Carbs 0

Fat 39.2

Meal 2

Keto Dessert (Recipe and Method Below)

Protein 34.4

Carbs 2.72

Fat 41.12

Meal 3

200g of Chicken Breast

50g Keto Mayo (Recipe and Method Below)

Protein 49.41

Carbs 1.94

Fats 32.91

Meal 4

Keto Dessert (Recipe and Method Below)

Protein 34.4

Carbs 2.72

Fat 41.12

Meal 5

175g Minced Beef

40g Cheddar Cheese

Protein 42.05

Carbs 0.04

Fat 44.13

Macro Totals:

Protein 204.01

Carbs 7.42

Fats 198.47

Total Calories: 2631.95 (11.44 x Bodyweight)

Keto Dessert (Blender Required)

Melt 240g of Coconut Oil.

Place 150mls of Boiling water into blender and 1 Sachet of Dr Oetkers Geletine and blend in until geletine has dissolved. Add a further 650mls of Cold Water with 240g of Nutrisport 90+ protein (Currently have raspberry) and blend. Add the coconut and blend once again.

Portion up into 6 equal size portions in plastic lidded containers and place in fridge. Should be ready next morning.

Keto Mayo (Blender Required)

Place 4 Egg Yolks (75g) into blender with 50g of White Wine Vinegar (or cider vinegar) and 50g of flax oil, and 50g olive oil. Blend for 10-15 seconds. Add a further 50g of Flax oil and 50g olive oil. Blend for a further 10-15 seconds. Add a further 25g flax oil and 25g olive oil blend again. Then add 25g flax, 25g olive oil again and blend. Add 10g of vinegar with 25g flax 25g olive and blend. Finally add 60g Dijon Mustard and blend for about 20 seconds.

Total

175g Flax oil

175g Olive oil

4 Egg Yolks (75g)

60g Vinegar

60g Dijon Mustard

Nutritional breakdown per 100g:

2.82 Protein

3.88 Carbs

61.41 Fats

Supplement Stack (Taken with Meals 1, 3, 5)

CLA 2000mg

Starflower 1000mg

Vit C 1000mg

Multivitamin

Green Tea

Sea Kelp

Alfalfa


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## Jacko89

Sweet, this will be really interesting following a different style of training and diet into a show.

Good luck with it mate.


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## B-GJOE

Now I've got that lot done, I'm going to enjoy a couple of bottles of Henry Westons premium cider, because I won't be having another for 140 days.


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## pipebomb

Great  will be keeping tabs on this. Good luck B|GJOE


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## mikep81

Good luck, will be following your progress. Might give that mayo recipe a go!!


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## Big Dawg

Good stuff Joe, subscribed 

I've been dieting for the last 12 days and am doing pretty much the same thing. Couldn't manage the 2 weeks without a carb up though, so just carbed up after a week lol. All's going well though, seem to be fully in ketosis already. Carb ups have been fcuking intense though, put away at least 2000-2500g carbs today and only about 80g fat lol! Trying to gauge how long it takes me to shed the water afterwards in case I ever decide to compete. Full 24hr refeeds atm :thumb:

I notice you're not doing mcdonald's depletion training - you reckon the time under tension thing will deplete glycogen stores enough?


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## stl

Subscribed - Good luck Joe

How long you running this diet before you carb load? *edit - 2 weeks doh!*

I have been looking at utilising luecine and/or r-ala to get me back in keto quicker after weekends, did you use anything on the last prep?

Cheers Steve


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## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Good stuff Joe, subscribed
> 
> I've been dieting for the last 12 days and am doing pretty much the same thing. Couldn't manage the 2 weeks without a carb up though, so just carbed up after a week lol. All's going well though, seem to be fully in ketosis already. Carb ups have been fcuking intense though, put away at least 2000-2500g carbs today and only about 80g fat lol! Trying to gauge how long it takes me to shed the water afterwards in case I ever decide to compete. Full 24hr refeeds atm :thumb:
> 
> I notice you're not doing mcdonald's depletion training - you reckon the time under tension thing will deplete glycogen stores enough?


Yeah, I will be doing the depletion, I am just continuing to train as I have been for the first 2 weeks as I am not having a refeed. As soon as I have had my first refeed, I will be switching to the same training as last year.


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## B-GJOE

stl said:


> Subscribed - Good luck Joe
> 
> How long you running this diet before you carb load? *edit - 2 weeks doh!*
> 
> I have been looking at utilising luecine and/or r-ala to get me back in keto quicker after weekends, did you use anything on the last prep?
> 
> Cheers Steve


Was just about the say that. :beer:


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## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Yeah, I will be doing the depletion, I am just continuing to train as I have been for the first 2 weeks as I am not having a refeed. As soon as I have had my first refeed, I will be switching to the same training as last year.


Aah good stuff mate. I made the mistake the first week of continuing to train DC style. This meant that I depleted very little glycogen comparatively so the first carb-up wasn't so successful. Won't be making that mistake again


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## B-GJOE

With regards to time under load you mentioned earlier. Yes I do think this is beneficial on this kind of diet. If I remember rightly in Lyles book there is quite a lot of calculations regards glycogen depletion and time under load. TUL is something I failed to take not of last year, I was just pumping away in the typical 3 seconds per rep style, so I probably didn't deplete as much as I could have.


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## sizar

big man .. i'm gonna def follow this and learn from it  thanks .. good luck joe


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## Rotsocks

Another one subscribed to.

Seem to spend most of my spare time on here since i found this site.

Never looked into the Keto diet so hope to learn something new from this thread.

All the best with the preperation.


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## hilly

will be following along mate as i no this will be interesting and full of good info.

all the best


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## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> With regards to time under load you mentioned earlier. Yes I do think this is beneficial on this kind of diet. If I remember rightly in Lyles book there is quite a lot of calculations regards glycogen depletion and time under load. TUL is something I failed to take not of last year, I was just pumping away in the typical 3 seconds per rep style, so I probably didn't deplete as much as I could have.


I'm figuring out the best way to do it mate. He recommends 60 secs rest for most exercises which is fcuk all for me! I usually take about 3 minutes between heavy sets, so I've had to drop the weight quite a lot. Just been doing 8-12 reps with 60 secs rest in between sets so I think I'm doing it right :confused1:


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## shanej

Hi Joe, Regarding your coconut oil, you say 'melt', is it solid to begin with? Which brand do you use.

Regards and good luck

Shane


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## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> I'm figuring out the best way to do it mate. He recommends 60 secs rest for most exercises which is fcuk all for me! I usually take about 3 minutes between heavy sets, so I've had to drop the weight quite a lot. Just been doing 8-12 reps with 60 secs rest in between sets so I think I'm doing it right :confused1:


That's what I have been doing for the last 3 months training wise. And trust me, I feel that the stimulus to the muscle is much greater than pumping out heavy sets with long rest. I even take a stopwatch with me so I don't over rest between sets.

I can get through a workout in about 20 minutes. And I certainly feel more exhausted than I used to do when I was in the gym for an hour. The following is only personal logic, but it might make sense to you.

Traditional Style

Bench Press 140kg X 6 Reps (3 Seconds Per Rep) X 4 Sets

= 140kg X 18 Seconds X 3 = 7560 (God knows what that relates to.....)

High Intensity High TUL

Bench Press 100kg X 6 Reps (8 Seconds Per Rep) X 3 Sets

=100 X 48 X 3 = 14400 (Double the above figure)

Also take into account that with example 1 there is a high likelihood that gravity and momentum will be utilised during this style of set. So whatever the fictional figure I got of 7560 means, will be reduced as there will not be true muscle load. So lets say that momentum and gravity reduce this figure 5000. This means the High TUL lower weight is almost 3 times better than the first example. Also we need to take into account the rest period. The total exercise in example 1 would take 18 seconds X 3 + 6 minutes rest. = 12 Mins and 54 seconds. In example 2 you will be complete in 48 seconds X 3 + 2 minutes rest, thus 4 Minutes 24 Seconds.

I know that looks like a load of bollox but I hope you see what I am getting at. Because I certainly get more out of this style of training than traditional style.


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## B-GJOE

shanej said:


> Hi Joe, Regarding your coconut oil, you say 'melt', is it solid to begin with? Which brand do you use.
> 
> Regards and good luck
> 
> Shane


Yes coconut oil is solid at room temperature.

I get the following coconut oil, it isn't the fancy virgin stuff, but it is cheap.

http://www.bakersandlarners.co.uk/coconut-500ml-p-4840.html


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## Taylor01

I know i've said this to your face in the past, but 8 second deadlifts. Nutter. Good luck tho mate

Adam


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## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> I know i've said this to your face in the past, but 8 second deadlifts. Nutter. Good luck tho mate
> 
> Adam


Welcome back Mr Taylor

Everyone meet my mate Adam, who trains and works at the Gym I go to. Very educated and intelligent individual, knows his stuff. Would be nice if he could just apply his knowledge to himself.  :thumb: :lol: :thumbup1:


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## Andrikos

Best of luck with your effort and enjoy it!You sound very psyched up!


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## B-GJOE

Andrikos said:


> Best of luck with your effort and enjoy it!You sound very psyched up!


Probably the 2 bottles of strong I've just consumed. :beer:

Onwards and upwards, up at 6am for some of that glorious fasted cardio.


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## B-GJOE

Managed to crawl out of bed this morning after a lousy nights sleep. Did my hour cardio, but feel tired, so hopefully a early night tonight.


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## LittleChris

Will be an interesting read this one, I am going to give the Keto diet a run myself in a few weeks, and was planning on using HIT training throughout again, perhaps this TUT approach is a worthy of a dabble though.


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## Big Dawg

LittleChris said:


> Will be an interesting read this one, I am going to give the Keto diet a run myself in a few weeks, and was planning on using HIT training throughout again, perhaps this TUT approach is a worthy of a dabble though.


I wouldn't recommend using HIT mate, IMO you need to use high volume depletion training to make the carb-ups effective. I've tried it before using DC training and was nowhere near as depleted as I should have been so the carb-up didn't go too well. This week I followed lyle's depletion guidelines and carbed up with about 2500g carbs over 24hrs and didn't put on an ounce of fat. IMO HIT wouldn't be the way to go 

Joe I'll respond to your detailed post when I get back, just nipping out now


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## Mikazagreat

Interesting diet, g.luck mate.


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## defdaz

Bigjoe, really enjoyed last years contest prep journal so good luck for this year and after have read last years I know how dedicated you will be so I have every expectation that this year you will be in even better condition than last year!  Looking forward to this...


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## defdaz

PS Do you find the lack of fibre in the diet an issue?


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## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> That's what I have been doing for the last 3 months training wise. And trust me, I feel that the stimulus to the muscle is much greater than pumping out heavy sets with long rest. I even take a stopwatch with me so I don't over rest between sets.
> 
> I can get through a workout in about 20 minutes. And I certainly feel more exhausted than I used to do when I was in the gym for an hour. The following is only personal logic, but it might make sense to you.
> 
> Traditional Style
> 
> Bench Press 140kg X 6 Reps (3 Seconds Per Rep) X 4 Sets
> 
> = 140kg X 18 Seconds X 3 = 7560 (God knows what that relates to.....)
> 
> High Intensity High TUL
> 
> Bench Press 100kg X 6 Reps (8 Seconds Per Rep) X 3 Sets
> 
> =100 X 48 X 3 = 14400 (Double the above figure)
> 
> Also take into account that with example 1 there is a high likelihood that gravity and momentum will be utilised during this style of set. So whatever the fictional figure I got of 7560 means, will be reduced as there will not be true muscle load. So lets say that momentum and gravity reduce this figure 5000. This means the High TUL lower weight is almost 3 times better than the first example. Also we need to take into account the rest period. The total exercise in example 1 would take 18 seconds X 3 + 6 minutes rest. = 12 Mins and 54 seconds. In example 2 you will be complete in 48 seconds X 3 + 2 minutes rest, thus 4 Minutes 24 Seconds.
> 
> I know that looks like a load of bollox but I hope you see what I am getting at. Because I certainly get more out of this style of training than traditional style.


Cheers for the detailed post mate, interesting stuff. It just all seems too complicated for me lol; I don't mind doing the lighter weight/little rest thing while dieting to deplete, but I always aim for strength progression when bulking. I've always responded fairly well to volume training so I'll probs go back to that for my rebound; whenever I change anything I always end up going back to that, as do most people I think.


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## Rambo55

Joe,

Is there a reason you do some much cardio at such a early stage?

Do you start high then taper it DOWN as you food/energy levels get worse towards show day?

Or do you keep this amount right the through?

It's just when you plateau ( if you plateau) where do you go from there?

thanks


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## Galtonator

Good luck Joe have subscribed


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## ste247

good luck with the prep m8 ill be following this with ive no doubt i will learn somit new along the way.


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## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> PS Do you find the lack of fibre in the diet an issue?


Crapping can be a bit difficult at times, but nothing major, and this sorts itself on carb up anyway.


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## B-GJOE

Rambo55 said:


> Joe,
> 
> Is there a reason you do some much cardio at such a early stage?
> 
> Do you start high then taper it DOWN as you food/energy levels get worse towards show day?
> 
> Or do you keep this amount right the through?
> 
> It's just when you plateau ( if you plateau) where do you go from there?
> 
> thanks


Just me and my strange logic. I'd rather get the fat off before my metabolism slows down, and if I hit comp shape early I can just increase cals and/or cut the cardio nearer the show. It just seems more logical to me, than hitting a panic a few weeks out. I've seen too many people try and play catch up too close to stage time.

Also if I plateau I have the stims as back up, as I will not be taking any stims or peds for first 8 weeks of diet.


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## Taylor01

Subscribed to thread, only took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to do it.

Oh and on the whole blockage subject, have you tried Fybogel(sp?). Some sort of husk type stuff. usually sorts me out a treat. There was something else Richard and Laurie recommended me when i was having trouble, but i can't remember what it was called. I'll ask when I see either of them and let you know.


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## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> Subscribed to thread, only took me about 10 minutes to figure out how to do it.
> 
> Oh and on the whole blockage subject, have you tried Fybogel(sp?). Some sort of husk type stuff. usually sorts me out a treat. There was something else Richard and Laurie recommended me when i was having trouble, but i can't remember what it was called. I'll ask when I see either of them and let you know.


It's not something that bothers me tbh. That's why I don't bother with fibre or anything. Just hardcore craps LOL


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## dtlv

Awesome journal. Am nowhere near being a competetive bodybuilder and having a practical understanding of pre contest prep but your plan looks really good to me and seems to make coherent sense.

Subscribed and will follow :thumb:


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## Big Dawg

Hi Joe mate, I'm getting so confused with my training for the CKD. I want to deplete myself as much as possible, but having 60 secs between bench press sets mean I have to go light as fcuk, and lyle in his book states that the figures of 15mmol (or whatever it is) per set is achieved with 45 second sets at 70% of 1RM. There's no way I'm capable of doing that with 60 secs rest! The whole thing's doing my head in cos I'm nut sure of the best way to deplete. I just don't feel like I'm going heavy enough to deplete myself, even though I'm doing loads of sets!

Would you recommend taking a bit more rest on certain exercises and keeping it heavy? If it was off season I'd be training 4x a week as heavy as possible (between 6 and 10 reps on most exercises) with probs 3 sets per exercise and unlimited reps. I don't like the whole idea of timing each repetition (IE 4 seconds per rep), so I just do it in the controlled manner I normally would (probs 2-3 seconds a set).

Any idea of the best way to deplete mate? I'm new to this but it feels like I'm not going heavy enough to maintain or deplete my muscle, even though I go close to failure on each set :confused1:

I hate having to overthink it all, but his book is so sciency! Maybe the best way would be to follow his recommended split but still go as hard as heavy as normal?

Like today I did:

Bench press (after warm-up)

80kgx8

80kgx7

70kgx7

60kgx8

With 60secs rest in between each set. I'd normally do 90kg for 3x8-10 I guess with 2-3 mins rest in between (I wouldn't be counting though).

I'm soooo confused!

Sorry to flood your thread mate but I know you know your sh1t here


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## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Hi Joe mate, I'm getting so confused with my training for the CKD. I want to deplete myself as much as possible, but having 60 secs between bench press sets mean I have to go light as fcuk, and lyle in his book states that the figures of 15mmol (or whatever it is) per set is achieved with 45 second sets at 70% of 1RM. There's no way I'm capable of doing that with 60 secs rest! The whole thing's doing my head in cos I'm nut sure of the best way to deplete. I just don't feel like I'm going heavy enough to deplete myself, even though I'm doing loads of sets!
> 
> Would you recommend taking a bit more rest on certain exercises and keeping it heavy? If it was off season I'd be training 4x a week as heavy as possible (between 6 and 10 reps on most exercises) with probs 3 sets per exercise and unlimited reps. I don't like the whole idea of timing each repetition (IE 4 seconds per rep), so I just do it in the controlled manner I normally would (probs 2-3 seconds a set).
> 
> Any idea of the best way to deplete mate? I'm new to this but it feels like I'm not going heavy enough to maintain or deplete my muscle, even though I go close to failure on each set :confused1:
> 
> I hate having to overthink it all, but his book is so sciency! Maybe the best way would be to follow his recommended split but still go as hard as heavy as normal?
> 
> Like today I did:
> 
> Bench press (after warm-up)
> 
> 80kgx8
> 
> 80kgx7
> 
> 70kgx7
> 
> 60kgx8
> 
> With 60secs rest in between each set. I'd normally do 90kg for 3x8-10 I guess with 2-3 mins rest in between (I wouldn't be counting though).
> 
> I'm soooo confused!
> 
> Sorry to flood your thread mate but I know you know your sh1t here


Personally I think the longer the set the more depletion you will get. Because once you have burned up available ATP your body will start burning glycogen at an excellerated rate. Also the longer the set the more chance of recruiting all the muscle fibres, of which there are 4 types. As 1 you work through the set you will progressively recruit more fibres as each one begins to exhaust. By only resting for a minute, you don't give your body chance for the ATP stores to fully recover, thus depleting even more glycogen.

All I can say mate is you are going to have to get out of your comfort zone. I used to always do heavy sets and it took me some discomfort to drop weight for more control and longer sets. However, I think over time you will be surprised at how well it works. For example, on chest days I can now do 30kg dumbbells for 10 reps, about 8 seconds per rep, so 80 seconds under load. Although I do have to drop the weight as I work through the sets, the first set is a good indicator of strength increase.

Remember, the muscle doesn't what you are lifting or for how many sets, all it knows is how to adapt to the load put upon it.


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## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Personally I think the longer the set the more depletion you will get. Because once you have burned up available ATP your body will start burning glycogen at an excellerated rate. Also the longer the set the more chance of recruiting all the muscle fibres, of which there are 4 types. As 1 you work through the set you will progressively recruit more fibres as each one begins to exhaust. By only resting for a minute, you don't give your body chance for the ATP stores to fully recover, thus depleting even more glycogen.
> 
> All I can say mate is you are going to have to get out of your comfort zone. I used to always do heavy sets and it took me some discomfort to drop weight for more control and longer sets. However, I think over time you will be surprised at how well it works. For example, on chest days I can now do 30kg dumbbells for 10 reps, about 8 seconds per rep, so 80 seconds under load. Although I do have to drop the weight as I work through the sets, the first set is a good indicator of strength increase.
> 
> Remember, the muscle doesn't what you are lifting or for how many sets, all it knows is how to adapt to the load put upon it.


Hmm that's quite interesting actually. I'm just used to the dorian analogy of imagining a spring compressing and then exploding. So if I was doing say cable lat raises I'd do 4 secs for the negative and 4 for the positive?

I found today my form suffered on the last set of bench press. I was using a pi55-light 60kg lol, but barely got 8 reps with it. It's only a few exercises that I don't seem to find as effective with a low rest time. I reckon I'd benefit from taking 90 secs between bench press and shoulder press sets for example, but only 60 secs between lat raises and db flyes sets.

How much of an effect does the relative weight make mate? Like say I did 4 sets of 12 reps with 12.5kg on flyes with 60 secs rest in between (each set stopping about 2 reps short of failure so as to complete 12 reps on all 4 sets), would that deplete more glycogen than 4 sets with 17.5kg for 8 reps with 90 secs rest in between (each set to failure)?


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## Taylor01

Well if i read this bit right:

*'Personally I think the longer the set the more depletion you will get. Because once you have burned up available ATP your body will start burning glycogen at an excellerated rate. Also the longer the set the more chance of recruiting all the muscle fibres, of which there are 4 types. As 1 you work through the set you will progressively recruit more fibres as each one begins to exhaust. By only resting for a minute, you don't give your body chance for the ATP stores to fully recover, thus depleting even more glycogen. '*

then yes, but i'm sure Joe will give a more detailed explanation. Knowing Joe, much much more detailed. lol


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## B-GJOE

Up early again this morning, only did 45 minutes of cardio instead of the intended 60. Maybe jumping right into 60 minutes sessions twice a day was a little too much, so will be doing 45 minute sessions, and 30 minute sessions after weights. Just until my body adjusts to the cardio load.


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## LiftHeavy

Joe any pics of where you are at with bodyfat now?

That was quite a high load of cardio to take on so early, good luck. Looks like a nice easy diet to stick to


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## B-GJOE

Training went quite well this evening, did back and chest. Deadlifts were a struggle at the end of the work out, seem to have lost some strength on these, but havn't done them for about 4-5 weeks, so that was expected. Post workout cardio was even worse, but got through it.

Starting to crave carbs already, but not too concerned about this as I expected it from experience these tend to disappear completely after 2 to 3 weeks.

Think my first carb up will be a good one, as I will be totally depleted by then, just under 2 weeks.

Just need a lot of mental focus until the carb cravings go. You guys should really try and do what I have to, and work in a chocolate factory whilst on pre-comp diet, it's mental torture


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## B-GJOE

LiftHeavy said:


> Joe any pics of where you are at with bodyfat now?
> 
> That was quite a high load of cardio to take on so early, good luck. Looks like a nice easy diet to stick to


Sorry, no pics at the moment. But trust me, I look a lot fatter than I do in my Avvy.

With regards to the cardio, my motto is get the fat off as quick as possible, then concentrate on detail.


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## special k

subscribed:thumbup1:

what does your usual cardio consist of?, fasted and post weights


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## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> You guys should really try and do what I have to, and work in a chocolate factory whilst on pre-comp diet, it's mental torture


All the more satisfying in the end tho, knowing you beat temptation every day for months.

I'd last about 5 minutes. lol


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## B-GJOE

special k said:


> subscribed:thumbup1:
> 
> what does your usual cardio consist of?, fasted and post weights


Cardio is always light, stationery bike fasted before breakfast. Stepper after weights. And on evenings I try to have an empty stomach, and do 45 min step, 15 min walk on treadmil


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## kawikid

Joe, got question for you. Kinda getting myself confused with this one.

I saw a post you made saying stay away from omega 6's. 3's and 9's are good but 6's are bad bad sh1t.

Lot of people rate and use CLA. But looking on the Bulk Powders site it says it is an omega 6 and is taken from sunflower ......



> *What is Conjugated Linoleic Acid?*
> 
> Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) is a naturally occurring fatty acid. It is part of the linoleic group of acids which are also known as essential omega 6 fatty acids.
> 
> Within the foods that the majority of us consume, CLA is primarily found in meat and dairy products. The animals that the meat and dairy products are obtained from feed on products high in linoleic acids, such as sunflowers and seeds.


If omega 6 and sunflower oil is bad for you. In what way is it bad, and why would anyone then suppliment with it. CLA is a pretty popular suppliment?


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## B-GJOE

kawikid said:


> Joe, got question for you. Kinda getting myself confused with this one.
> 
> I saw a post you made saying stay away from omega 6's. 3's and 9's are good but 6's are bad bad sh1t.
> 
> Lot of people rate and use CLA. But looking on the Bulk Powders site it says it is an omega 6 and is taken from sunflower ......
> 
> If omega 6 and sunflower oil is bad for you. In what way is it bad, and why would anyone then suppliment with it. CLA is a pretty popular suppliment?


Omega 6's are inflamatory, and oxidate very easily.

CLA is something of an anomaly, not only does it fall into the omega 6 group it is also technically a trans fat. So although it is both of the fats that are bad for you, it is actually good for you. Remember it is only this 1 fatty acid and it's structure that is good.

Just because CLA is good for you doesn't mean that all trans fats are, or that all omega 6's are. Fats are a very complicated subject, and the body deals with each one in unique ways.

Just take MCT's for example,

Caprylic Acid which has 8 carbons is strongly ketogenic in that it goes to the liver and is manufactured directly into ketones.

Capric Acid 10 carbons is metabolised in a similar way but is not as ketogenic

Lauric Acid 12 carbons is even less ketogenic insomuch that only a small amount are processed into ketones, most is processed via the lymph and is stored as fat

Myristic Acid 14 carbons is almost all processed via the lymph


----------



## B-GJOE

kawikid said:


> Joe, got question for you. Kinda getting myself confused with this one.
> 
> I saw a post you made saying stay away from omega 6's. 3's and 9's are good but 6's are bad bad sh1t.
> 
> Lot of people rate and use CLA. But looking on the Bulk Powders site it says it is an omega 6 and is taken from sunflower ......
> 
> If omega 6 and sunflower oil is bad for you. In what way is it bad, and why would anyone then suppliment with it. CLA is a pretty popular suppliment?


Also, where did you get that quote from??? The amount of CLA available in dairy and meat is actually reducing as a result of the high omega 6 diets fed to animals nowadays.


----------



## B-GJOE

Just got back home after 45 mins of cardio. Starting to feel the effects of jumping into a cutting diet now, and it is only 3 days in. Felt light headed and exhausted after cardio session. Not worry, will soon get used to it. Can't wait the switch to ketones now.

Didn't get up this morning for fasted cardio, as I just couldn't get my ass out of bed, just soooo tired.

So things not going entirely to plan, but never mind, still very early days so far.


----------



## kawikid

B|GJOE said:


> Also, where did you get that quote from??? The amount of CLA available in dairy and meat is actually reducing as a result of the high omega 6 diets fed to animals nowadays.


Thanks for the reply. Makes scense now. :thumbup1:

I copied it straight from the Bulk Powders website.


----------



## B-GJOE

Cardio was much better this morning, felt much more energetic, had bike on a higher resistance and worked at a faster pace without increasing heart rate. Maybe that's ketosis who knows, but felt much much better today.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Just got back home after 45 mins of cardio. Starting to feel the effects of jumping into a cutting diet now, and it is only 3 days in. Felt light headed and exhausted after cardio session. Not worry, will soon get used to it. Can't wait the switch to ketones now.
> 
> Didn't get up this morning for fasted cardio, as I just couldn't get my ass out of bed, just soooo tired.
> 
> So things not going entirely to plan, but never mind, still very early days so far.


It's weird mate, once I get into a diet I'm usually only able to sleep about 5 hours and I don't feel tired at all. However after refeeding I'm usually fcuked the next day and find it really hard to get up. I think going to bed and waking up on an empty stomach seriously effects your sleep. I find that from the day after the refeed to the next refeed I wake up gradually earlier every day. Woke up at 5 today and did cardio whereas usually it's 7.


----------



## shanej

Subscribed 2


----------



## Titchy Dan

Hey Joe

Really like this journal - it`ll be good to see some "before" pcs though.........

From the journal opener you seem to be very thorough. When i compete i`ll be looking at you for some good sound advice!! Subscribed now, looking forward as this continues

Im sure you look great right now so will look forward to seeing a "bigger" you from the profile pic


----------



## B-GJOE

Just got back from gym, weights and cardio this evening. Shoulders, and arms. endurance was lagging a bit on the weights, and lifts not too great, but may have something to do with skipping 2 arm and shoulder sessions before diet started (The slack before the diet). However, compared to yesterday, my cardio has gone from a struggle to a chor. No difficulties there, just boredom. I imagine my weight sessions will be pretty poor next week, as I am not carbing this weekend. But next weekend I will carb up saturday, and do my weights over sunday, monday and tuesday so expect to see a big improvement then.


----------



## B-GJOE

Titchy Dan said:


> Hey Joe
> 
> Really like this journal - it`ll be good to see some "before" pcs though.........
> 
> From the journal opener you seem to be very thorough. When i compete i`ll be looking at you for some good sound advice!! Subscribed now, looking forward as this continues
> 
> Im sure you look great right now so will look forward to seeing a "bigger" you from the profile pic


I'll try to get some pics this weekend, if the missus will oblige.


----------



## Titchy Dan

B|GJOE said:


> I'll try to get some pics this weekend, if the missus will oblige.


excellent stuff - i know its all not an exact sience but i think i remember you saying in a thread i posted in you had similar measurements to me "off season" (i have never been on season i might add) so seeing you progress might give me a very loose picture of how i might shape up, not an exact science i know


----------



## B-GJOE

Titchy Dan said:


> excellent stuff - i know its all not an exact sience but i think i remember you saying in a thread i posted in you had similar measurements to me "off season" (i have never been on season i might add) so seeing you progress might give me a very loose picture of how i might shape up, not an exact science i know


Tbh your off season size looks bigger than mine judging by your avvy.


----------



## B-GJOE

Gym was a struggle this morning. Did legs on day 6 of keto without a carb up. Now feel depleted, and low on energy for weight sessions, but in general feeling much much more energetic. Good sign that I am in ketosis, and glycogen levels are low. However, cardio was a bit strange after my leg session, I felt OK and didn't feel that I was exerting myself too much, but my heart rate was well high, 145-150. No explanation for this, as it has been around 110 to 120 on cardio rest of week. Weight is down about 5lbs since starting, but this is obviously the dropping of water. I anticipate that by Friday evening next week I will be a further 2 to 3 lbs down, then I'll be carbing up next Saturday, and changing training and diet to CKD. Training this coming week will be interesting.......


----------



## BIG-UNC

whats your water intake while your in keto joe and what increase do you make on your carb up? asking this as i cant find any quantities in the diet i know that water intake will be reduced to as and when needeed whilst in keto

also can you answer a little question for me mate

when im taking reading for bf do i take the reading relaxed or tensed sounds abit daft now ive read it back to myself

cheers joe

unc


----------



## B-GJOE

BIG-UNC said:


> whats your water intake while your in keto joe and what increase do you make on your carb up? asking this as i cant find any quantities in the diet i know that water intake will be reduced to as and when needeed whilst in keto
> 
> also can you answer a little question for me mate
> 
> when im taking reading for bf do i take the reading relaxed or tensed sounds abit daft now ive read it back to myself
> 
> cheers joe
> 
> unc


If you do bf properly it shouldn't matter as it is a skin fold measure. If you get someone who knows what they are doing they will still pinch the necessary skin, but it will hurt more if you are flexed. So from a pain threshold point of view, just relax.

I drink approx 3-4 litres a day, the problem i find with keto is that I am always thirsty, but water goes through me like a porche. Keeping hydrated without carbs is pretty difficult.

With regards to carb up, i normally have my first 3 meals as liquid, 50g dex, 50g corn starch, 50g protein powder. After that it is pretty much what I fancy and how I feel. I don't count or weigh on carb up, I just go by how I feel. I would probably guess that a typical carb up would be about 750g carbs. I also don't count fat and protein, most protein will be in the form of shakes. So basically, I have a protein shake every couple of hours, and eat what i feel. Not very scientific, but i see this a time to relax before the next 6 days of hard work, diet, and cardio. I hope that helps


----------



## BIG-UNC

B|GJOE said:


> If you do bf properly it shouldn't matter as it is a skin fold measure. If you get someone who knows what they are doing they will still pinch the necessary skin, but it will hurt more if you are flexed. So from a pain threshold point of view, just relax.
> 
> I drink approx 3-4 litres a day, the problem i find with keto is that I am always thirsty, but water goes through me like a porche. Keeping hydrated without carbs is pretty difficult.
> 
> With regards to carb up, i normally have my first 3 meals as liquid, 50g dex, 50g corn starch, 50g protein powder. After that it is pretty much what I fancy and how I feel. I don't count or weigh on carb up, I just go by how I feel. I would probably guess that a typical carb up would be about 750g carbs. I also don't count fat and protein, most protein will be in the form of shakes. So basically, I have a protein shake every couple of hours, and eat what i feel. Not very scientific, but i see this a time to relax before the next 6 days of hard work, diet, and cardio. I hope that helps


hey thanks mate do you add dex and corn startch to your shakes during the day to help a achieve the 750g of carbs

do you take any creatine whikle on carb up mate

thanks again joe

unc


----------



## B-GJOE

no just the first 3 meals for dex and corn starch. then I eat the rest of the carbs,

I don't bother with creatine at all during diet, but do have some at show time.


----------



## Taylor01

How's it feeling not having a carb up/cheat this weekend?

I've decided to go thru to next weekend before i do, so i know the weight that has come off isnt a fluke, and it just doesnt feel normal. lol


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> How's it feeling not having a carb up/cheat this weekend?
> 
> I've decided to go thru to next weekend before i do, so i know the weight that has come off isnt a fluke, and it just doesnt feel normal. lol


You decided to go keto mate??

I feel OK doing every day tasks and cardio. Getting hungry, can't wait till next weekend, gonna have a good one.


----------



## GHS

Did your Mrs agree to take pics?


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> You decided to go keto mate??
> 
> I feel OK doing every day tasks and cardio. Getting hungry, can't wait till next weekend, gonna have a good one.


Hell no, still, 2 and a bit lbs down this week, legs are looking leaner somehow, altho i battered them this morning, so they'll be smooth n watery until about next saturday.

Last time i dieted i cheated every sunday from the start, so i reckon if i can go 2 weeks at the start its an improvement.

It'll probably go back to every sunday after this tho because i think we get back out on the mountain bikes next weekend. Possibly a bit counter-productive but i figure as long as i get some calories in, it can't be too disastrous.


----------



## B-GJOE

GHS said:


> Did your Mrs agree to take pics?


We had bit of a row this weekend, so didn't talk to each other much.


----------



## Big Dawg

Joe mate do you think it's important to tally up ALL the protein in your diet or just the complete sources? When gaining I just include the complete sources, but I'm thinking for keto then the 0.9g per lb should encompass all protein consumed, not just the stuff from chicken, eggs etc? IE would you include the protein from cheese/ PB too on a CKD?


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Joe mate do you think it's important to tally up ALL the protein in your diet or just the complete sources? When gaining I just include the complete sources, but I'm thinking for keto then the 0.9g per lb should encompass all protein consumed, not just the stuff from chicken, eggs etc? IE would you include the protein from cheese/ PB too on a CKD?


I tally up all sources of protein. PB and Cheese too. On Keto most sources of protein should be good anyway, unlike a high carb diet where the proteins come from grains, flour, rice etc also.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> I tally up all sources of protein. PB and Cheese too. On Keto most sources of protein should be good anyway, unlike a high carb diet where the proteins come from grains, flour, rice etc also.


Yeah, I'm just looking at it and with just the complete sources my protein intake is 180g, but adding up that from cheese and PB it's 245g!! Dunno what to do cos if I reduce my protein sources any more it'll seem pointless eating them lol - like 100g chicken per serving with 50g PB seems like a massive imbalance


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Yeah, I'm just looking at it and with just the complete sources my protein intake is 180g, but adding up that from cheese and PB it's 245g!! Dunno what to do cos if I reduce my protein sources any more it'll seem pointless eating them lol - like 100g chicken per serving with 50g PB seems like a massive imbalance


Yeah, it's actually difficult to keep the protein down.

I forgot to buy some mince beef, so having to fry a steak in butter for the same balance. Yum Yum


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Yeah, it's actually difficult to keep the protein down.
> 
> I forgot to buy some mince beef, so having to fry a steak in butter for the same balance. Yum Yum


LOL it's the cheese and PB that's throwing it off. I might have to make some of your mayo to replace both, just to keep the protein in check. Love cheese though lol!


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> LOL it's the cheese and PB that's throwing it off. I might have to make some of your mayo to replace both, just to keep the protein in check. Love cheese though lol!


Cheese is great food on Keto, and the protein is good too.

Just gotta say, I love this diet. I'm tucking into a lean steak, fried in butter, a lot of butter, and seasoned too. I've seasonings for everthing.

Diet went a bit off yesterday. Was having a busy day, and didn't have time to make food, missed meals etc etc. So I stopped at a garage and grabbed a couple of pepperami's. Then had had Seasoned Lamb Chops when I actually got around to eating. I was still within my total daily calories. Not many diets that you can enjoy that kind of food on is there.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Cheese is great food on Keto, and the protein is good too.
> 
> Just gotta say, I love this diet. I'm tucking into a lean steak, fried in butter, a lot of butter, and seasoned too. I've seasonings for everthing.
> 
> Diet went a bit off yesterday. Was having a busy day, and didn't have time to make food, missed meals etc etc. So I stopped at a garage and grabbed a couple of pepperami's. Then had had Seasoned Lamb Chops when I actually got around to eating. I was still within my total daily calories. Not many diets that you can enjoy that kind of food on is there.


True dat! Where do you get your flax oil from mate, is there a cheapish source of it anywhere? I might just make the mayo with olive oil for now - not as good obviously but far better than the vegetable oil sh1te hellman's use!


----------



## B-GJOE

I get my Flax from Morrisons. It's the only store that I have seen it in tbh. If you do have a local Morrisons, you should find it on the 'Free From' section. 265ml organic cold pressed for only £4.76


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> I get my Flax from Morrisons. It's the only store that I have seen it in tbh. If you do have a local Morrisons, you should find it on the 'Free From' section. 265ml organic cold pressed for only £4.76


Hmmm isn't one anywhere near me, I'll have to look online. If I make that mayo it'd reduce my protein intake quite significantly which would be a good thing. I'm so lazy though in terms of cooking stuff like that that I've got half a mind to just buy hellman's mayo. If only I didn't know the sh1t they put in it


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Hmmm isn't one anywhere near me, I'll have to look online. If I make that mayo it'd reduce my protein intake quite significantly which would be a good thing. I'm so lazy though in terms of cooking stuff like that that I've got half a mind to just buy hellman's mayo. If only I didn't know the sh1t they put in it


Make it in big batches, My first batch has lasted me 8 days so fat, and should last about 10 all together.

I made a new batch last night, this time I reduced the dijon a bit, and added powdered garlic and course grain black pepper. Not too bad.

You may find flax in Tesco if you have a large store. They used to sell in my local tesco, and it is not a big one.

This is the stuff Morrisons sell

http://www.granovita.co.uk/product_details.php?type=7&product=8950

But I can't find anyone online that comes anywhere near Morrisons on Price.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Make it in big batches, My first batch has lasted me 8 days so fat, and should last about 10 all together.
> 
> I made a new batch last night, this time I reduced the dijon a bit, and added powdered garlic and course grain black pepper. Not too bad.
> 
> You may find flax in Tesco if you have a large store. They used to sell in my local tesco, and it is not a big one.
> 
> This is the stuff Morrisons sell
> 
> http://www.granovita.co.uk/product_details.php?type=7&product=8950
> 
> But I can't find anyone online that comes anywhere near Morrisons on Price.


Can't find it online at either tesco or asda but I'll check the big asda soon to make sure. Cheers mate, it'd defo be a great source of omega 3s


----------



## Big Dawg

OK apparently H&B sell it but it's £9.99 for 47mls so a tad more than morrison's


----------



## B-GJOE

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pages/product_detail.asp?pid=448&prodid=353

Not too bad............


----------



## B-GJOE

Spooky!


----------



## B-GJOE

http://www.cheap-supplements.co.uk/lifeplan-organic-flaxseed-oil-240ml-bottle.html


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## Big Dawg

Can I ask mate, how long does it keep for in the fridge? I'd have thought only 3 days or so but you said this batch'll last you 10? Do you freeze it?


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Can I ask mate, how long does it keep for in the fridge? I'd have thought only 3 days or so but you said this batch'll last you 10? Do you freeze it?


Just in the fridge mate. It's only oil and egg yolk. Shouldn't be a bacterial problem, low in protein, and quite acidic from the vinegar. I'd have a guess at about 2 weeks +.


----------



## BIG GRANT

watched u at the lincs last year m8 u looked awsome, all the best for this year m8.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Just in the fridge mate. It's only oil and egg yolk. Shouldn't be a bacterial problem, low in protein, and quite acidic from the vinegar. I'd have a guess at about 2 weeks +.


Cheers mate, I always assume that anything with meat/ egg in it is only gonna last about 3 days lol, but you're right the vinegar should make a difference.

If I could pick your brains about something else mate, for the last few weeks I've been pretty much following palumbo's guidelines during the week. I was averaging around 300g protein and around 140g fat a day I'd say, so pretty much a 1:1 ratio. Since starting I've felt hungry, lightheaded etc - certainly was a lot harder than I imagine it should be at the start of a diet. I've also defo lost a bit of muscle along with the fat from what I can see. Do you think that because of the ratios my body wasn't getting into ketosis and I was using mainly protein for energy? I don't think I've ever been in ketosis lol and I imagine it's just cos my ratios have been sh1t.

I've changed it now to 2450cals, 190g protein, 165g fat, so pretty much a 1:2 ratio now. This should be appropriate for getting into ketosis now shouldn't it?

Also, are MCTs found in coconut milk or just in coconut oil mate? I have been researching it but nothing I've found has laid it out in black and white.

Many thanks mate


----------



## B-GJOE

BIG GRANT said:


> watched u at the lincs last year m8 u looked awsome, all the best for this year m8.


Thanks mate


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Cheers mate, I always assume that anything with meat/ egg in it is only gonna last about 3 days lol, but you're right the vinegar should make a difference.
> 
> If I could pick your brains about something else mate, for the last few weeks I've been pretty much following palumbo's guidelines during the week. I was averaging around 300g protein and around 140g fat a day I'd say, so pretty much a 1:1 ratio. Since starting I've felt hungry, lightheaded etc - certainly was a lot harder than I imagine it should be at the start of a diet. I've also defo lost a bit of muscle along with the fat from what I can see. Do you think that because of the ratios my body wasn't getting into ketosis and I was using mainly protein for energy? I don't think I've ever been in ketosis lol and I imagine it's just cos my ratios have been sh1t.
> 
> I've changed it now to 2450cals, 190g protein, 165g fat, so pretty much a 1:2 ratio now. This should be appropriate for getting into ketosis now shouldn't it?
> 
> Also, are MCTs found in coconut milk or just in coconut oil mate? I have been researching it but nothing I've found has laid it out in black and white.
> 
> Many thanks mate


How do you know for certain that you have lost muscle? Is it just the way you look and feel or have you done a BF% measurment and taken this away from total bodyweight, and realised an actual loss of LBM? Are you lifting the same weights, for the same reps in the gym, or even doing more? I like to use this as a measure of LBM loss, if I maintain strength then it is unlikely muscle is shrinking.

I am now at the end of day 9 of pure Keto, and I am really starting to suffer in the Gym now, but in general feel absolutely fine. Maybe a little forgetful and light headed at times. But me, like you, feel really small and deflated.

I think you already know my opinion on the Palumbo keto, I just think it is too much protein for Keto style dieting. I am sure some people get good results from it, as there are plenty of proof, but I would sure like to know what their drug routines are.................

Stick with Lyle's style mate.

As for Coconut oil and coconut Milk that is pretty simple, as there isn't much to a coconut, just the meat and the water. All the fat in a coconut comes from the meat. Milk is extracted by squeezing the water through the meat. The milk is actually the first stage of creating the oil. If you leave the milk to ferment the oil will float to the top.






So the milk actually contains the oil, but the oil doesn't contain the protein and carb content of the coconut.

So therefore, yes, there are MCT's in the Milk and the Oil.

If you are looking for cheap coconut oil

http://www.bakersandlarners.co.uk/coconut-500ml-p-4840.html

It is not cold pressed virgin stuff, but as coconut is very stable under high temperatures, I'm not too bothered if it has been warm pressed.

Having a lot of MCT will kind of cheat the ketosis process, as the a lot of the MCT's particularly the capric acid 8 carbons, goes directly to the liver which manufactures ketones from it. So even if you are not on a keto diet, eating coconut will release ketones regardless.


----------



## Big Dawg

Awesome, that is a v good price mate, cheers. Do you reckon having coconut oil/ milk in my shakes would be superior to using olive oil in terms of getting into ketosis quicker following a refeed etc? Also, if I were to buy the oil, isn't it solid at room temperature? What's the process of turning it into liquid and adding it to a shake mate?

In terms of the muscle loss, my arms and lats just look a lot smaller. My strength's gone down a bit, but it's kind of hard to measure properly cos I went from doing DC training with fairly heavy weight to doing depletion-type training with much less weight. I've now gone back to volume training which is sort of in between the two, so I can only really compare it to my weights lifted a month or so ago before I started DC. When I next diet I'll just stick with volume training from the get go so I can gauge strength loss I think.

Yeah IMO the palumbo diet isn't the best - it's almost like putting yourself through the tortures of the final few weeks of contest prep, but doing it right from the start. The whole time doing it I just felt sh1tty on the low carbs, which I imagine wouldn't be the case if I were in ketosis.


----------



## B-GJOE

I put the pot of coconut oil in hot water, it soon melts. Or put it in the microwave. It is hard to tell if there is an advantage with MCT's and ketosis, as you are cheating the system, so any measure is skewed. The reason I use coconut oil is because it is nice tasting, and has many health benefits. It is also thought to have a positive effect on thyroid function.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> I put the pot of coconut oil in hot water, it soon melts. Or put it in the microwave. It is hard to tell if there is an advantage with MCT's and ketosis, as you are cheating the system, so any measure is skewed. The reason I use coconut oil is because it is nice tasting, and has many health benefits. It is also thought to have a positive effect on thyroid function.


Palumbo claims MCTs don't have any health benefits lol but I don't trust him any more :lol:

Cheers mate, I'll be sticking 100% to lyle's guidelines now, at least in terms of the keto phase of the diet. Palumbo's seems so simple to follow but it's torture as my body seems to be drifting in and out of ketosis constantly. Not ideal at all! I had a permanent low carb "fog" while my protein was high - does this pretty much go away while in ketosis?


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Palumbo claims MCTs don't have any health benefits lol but I don't trust him any more :lol:
> 
> Cheers mate, I'll be sticking 100% to lyle's guidelines now, at least in terms of the keto phase of the diet. Palumbo's seems so simple to follow but it's torture as my body seems to be drifting in and out of ketosis constantly. Not ideal at all! I had a permanent low carb "fog" while my protein was high - does this pretty much go away while in ketosis?


In my experience, the foggyness, seems go away after 3 weeks on the diet.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> I put the pot of coconut oil in hot water, it soon melts. Or put it in the microwave. It is hard to tell if there is an advantage with MCT's and ketosis, as you are cheating the system, so any measure is skewed. The reason I use coconut oil is because it is nice tasting, and has many health benefits. It is also thought to have a positive effect on thyroid function.


Can I just ask mate, if I melted it, then added it to a shake and put it in the fridge, would it just solidify in the fridge again?


----------



## BIG-UNC

Keto Diet

The following will be a typical Keto. As I am not going refeed for first 2 weeks, will not post the carb up yet.

Meal 1

6 Whole Omega 3 Eggs (Approx Weight 350g)

Protein 43.75

Carbs 0

Fat 39.2

Meal 2

Keto Dessert (Recipe and Method Below)

Protein 34.4

Carbs 2.72

Fat 41.12

Meal 3

200g of Chicken Breast

50g Keto Mayo (Recipe and Method Below)

Protein 49.41

Carbs 1.94

Fats 32.91

Meal 4

Keto Dessert (Recipe and Method Below)

Protein 34.4

Carbs 2.72

Fat 41.12

Meal 5

175g Minced Beef

40g Cheddar Cheese

Protein 42.05

Carbs 0.04

Fat 44.13

Macro Totals:

Protein 204.01

Carbs 7.42

Fats 198.47

Total Calories: 2631.95 (11.44 x Bodyweight)

when do train joe?

do you train to time it with one of your solid meals ie chicken/minced beef or is it after the mayo and stuff?

thanks mate

unc


----------



## B-GJOE

Weights are done after meal 4. PWO I will have 30g of Whey in water, which I haven't put on the list, sorry.


----------



## Big Dawg

Sorry mate, can you tell me if coconut oil will solidify once I've added it to a shake or will it stay as a liquid? Might sound like a stupid question but I need to know cos I'll buy some today if so.


----------



## B-GJOE

If you drink right away you will be OK.

If you do it in the blender and leave it for later you will have lots of small pieces of coconut fat floating around the shake.


----------



## Big Dawg

Alright big fella, just made a batch of your mayo! I couldn't get my hands on any flax for a reasonable price, so I just used walnut oil instead - there'll be at least some omega 3s in there and it's still a million times better than store-bought mayo.

Worked an absolute treat mate, did exactly what you said. At first I thought it wasn't gonna thicken but then I added more oil and it thickened up and emulsified a treat! I've followed different mayo recipes before and they've never turned out right - I've always made them on a smaller scale too in case they went wrong. Well I used your exact measurements and it all worked absolutely brilliantly - tastes amazing too! Thanks a lot mate, will be a staple of mine. I've been using hellman's for the last couple of days bought couldn't do it any more cos of all the sh1t in it so now I have some healthy-a55 mayo to use.

Cheers mate!


----------



## B-GJOE

AlasTTTair said:


> Alright big fella, just made a batch of your mayo! I couldn't get my hands on any flax for a reasonable price, so I just used walnut oil instead - there'll be at least some omega 3s in there and it's still a million times better than store-bought mayo.
> 
> Worked an absolute treat mate, did exactly what you said. At first I thought it wasn't gonna thicken but then I added more oil and it thickened up and emulsified a treat! I've followed different mayo recipes before and they've never turned out right - I've always made them on a smaller scale too in case they went wrong. Well I used your exact measurements and it all worked absolutely brilliantly - tastes amazing too! Thanks a lot mate, will be a staple of mine. I've been using hellman's for the last couple of days bought couldn't do it any more cos of all the sh1t in it so now I have some healthy-a55 mayo to use.
> 
> Cheers mate!


Reps???? LOL


----------



## nutnut

Hi Joe,

not long until refeed now, will be following your journal 

how are you feeling at the moment and finding training all going well I hope?

Any pics going up anywhere? Best of luck!!


----------



## B-GJOE

nutnut said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> not long until refeed now, will be following your journal
> 
> how are you feeling at the moment and finding training all going well I hope?
> 
> Any pics going up anywhere? Best of luck!!


Man, you don't know how much I need a refeed now. 2 weeks no carbs aint a nice experience. Cardio no probs, just weights are a nightmare now, nothing in me. I can still lift as heavy, just not for so long.

I'll get photo's up in due course

Stuck in a Hotel at the moment.


----------



## Big Dawg

B|GJOE said:


> Reps???? LOL


Tried mate, can't until recharge


----------



## B-GJOE

I just confused the hell out of a hotel waitress. All I did was ask for the 10oz sirloin steak with no chips, not grilled tomato, no mushrooms, and no onion rings. She looked at me as if I was growing horns out of my head. I had to repeat it 3 times. Dumb fcukers, have they never heard of Keto....

I also asked if I could use the health suit at 6am so I could do my cardio, and the same look.

You would think I was a frickin alien.


----------



## hilly

have had this issue before mate always makes me laugh


----------



## dtlv

B|GJOE said:


> I just confused the hell out of a hotel waitress. All I did was ask for the 10oz sirloin steak with no chips, not grilled tomato, no mushrooms, and no onion rings. She looked at me as if I was growing horns out of my head. I had to repeat it 3 times. Dumb fcukers, have they never heard of Keto....
> 
> I also asked if I could use the health suit at 6am so I could do my cardio, and the same look.
> 
> You would think I was a frickin alien.


Isn't it funny that when you present a waiter or waitress with a specific or bodybuilding diet request they always seem to lose the ability to comprehend simple English? You can almost see their IQ drop as you explain to them what you want :lol:

I think it's a widespread phenomenon mate - bodybuilding stuff tends to stupify a lot of people not into it


----------



## Taylor01

You finished eating sweets yet fatty?


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> You finished eating sweets yet fatty?


Yep, finished at 4pm this afternoon with a shake made from dex. I think i've done about 1kg of carbs, mostly simple sugars in the last 24 hours. :whistling:


----------



## round 2

Dtlv74 said:


> Isn't it funny that when you present a waiter or waitress with a specific or bodybuilding diet request they always seem to lose the ability to comprehend simple English? You can almost see their IQ drop as you explain to them what you want :lol:
> 
> I think it's a widespread phenomenon mate - bodybuilding stuff tends to stupify a lot of people not into it


Its because body building food mostly tastes like ****.(well it does the first couple of hundred times)And people cant get there heads round why you want a lump of meat on a plate and plain boiled rice!haha


----------



## BIG-UNC

B|GJOE said:


> Yep, finished at 4pm this afternoon with a shake made from dex. I think i've done about 1kg of carbs, mostly simple sugars in the last 24 hours. :whistling:


what did this consist off joe anything and anything or more specific things?

unc


----------



## Taylor01

BIG-UNC said:


> what did this consist off joe anything and anything or more specific things?
> 
> unc


From what I gather, 36 jaffa cakes as a starter, haribo for main, and sugar for dessert. :thumb:


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> From what I gather, 36 jaffa cakes as a starter, haribo for main, and sugar for dessert. :thumb:


OK here it is. Yes it was a dirty carb up. No structure, due to lack of prep on my behalf, and working away friday. This week training changes, and next weekend carb ups will be structured after a depletion work out.

Finished work on friday, popped in shop for some carbs to eat in the car on my 2 hour journey.

2 egg custards

36 jaffa cakes.

Played poker that evening, and consumed a bag of haribo's, a bag of popcorn, and half a pack of snackerjacks.

Bowl of sugar puffs saturday morning.

A couple of glucose energy drinks

A protein bar

80g of Dex in a protein shake.

The only other macros consumed during carb up were whey protein shakes.

I'm off to gym now, so will post new training regime up later.


----------



## Taylor01

Carbs obviously did some good mate, strong as fook, especially after training legs this morning HIT style and doing cardio.

I've just got in, made tomorrow's food for work and been greeted by the biggest cookie ive ever seen and cakes everywhere.

Bring it on


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> Carbs obviously did some good mate, strong as fook, especially after training legs this morning HIT style and doing cardio.
> 
> I've just got in, made tomorrow's food for work and been greeted by the biggest cookie ive ever seen and cakes everywhere.
> 
> Bring it on


Enjoy mate.

When Taylor01 talks about carbs and strong as fook. I trained legs this morning in my usual slow form 8 second reps, and 1 minute break between sets, then 30 minutes of cardio. I went home, and took my daughter swimming. Returned from swimming, took my step son to the gym for his weekly workout. Got talking to Taylor about leg training and leg press. He said that he got 380kg out for 8 reps, which is very impressive considering the size of him. As I have been training slow mo for about 6 months, I thought I would see how strong I am doing traditional style. So I banged 400kg on the leg press, and knocked out 10 reps pretty easily. I think 1000lbs leg press would've been in order if I was fresh and not already trained legs this morning. Bring it on...................


----------



## Taylor01

I'm thinking I might do quads HIT style next weekend, just as a change, and for the sake of my joints, and George's.

He's gained sh!teloads of strength on legs in the last 8 or 9 weeks, and banged out 350kg for 8 reps this morning, and I can't imagine either of our tendons and ligaments are gettin stronger as quickly as everything else.

Am I barking up the wrong tree thinking HIT will be easier on the joints?

I understand the TUL side of things will obviously be putting pressure on everything for longer periods of time, but i'm thinking slower reps will be better for a deload than the usual, grind the reps out and get done before you throw up or soil yourself style.


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> I'm thinking I might do quads HIT style next weekend, just as a change, and for the sake of my joints, and George's.
> 
> He's gained sh!teloads of strength on legs in the last 8 or 9 weeks, and banged out 350kg for 8 reps this morning, and I can't imagine either of our tendons and ligaments are gettin stronger as quickly as everything else.
> 
> Am I barking up the wrong tree thinking HIT will be easier on the joints?
> 
> I understand the TUL side of things will obviously be putting pressure on everything for longer periods of time, but i'm thinking slower reps will be better for a deload than the usual, grind the reps out and get done before you throw up or soil yourself style.


Slow motion training certainly does mean greater TUT. However, because the weights used are so much lighter, and the pace means that your muscles take the weight and not the joints. So IMO it is much better for your joints.


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> Slow motion training certainly does mean greater TUT. However, because the weights used are so much lighter, and the pace means that your muscles take the weight and not the joints. So IMO it is much better for your joints.


SOLD!

I'll give it a bash for a few weeks until my joints feel as springy as they did before christmas.

Cheers mate


----------



## BIG-UNC

36 jaffa cakes lol nice one  but you could've saved a couple for the kids joe


----------



## Taylor01

Has the carb induced lethargy cleared yet mate?

I've got a full on food hangover today. Makes me not wanna cheat again. What a girl


----------



## B-GJOE

I'm OK mate. Bit of food hangover yesterday evening, but no probs now


----------



## tonyc74

Joe,

This is very interesting reading.

Ive looked up Lyle Mcdonald and been reading the Ultimate diet - this is the one your a following?

He says that if you goal is gaining muscle then reduce carbs up to 20% and then says but you probably wont loose any fat!?

How long are you staying on this diet?, i think i read your plan was 140 days?

Are you able to plan any cheat meals other than the carb ups as my understanding is the carb ups have to be fairly clean i.e no staurated fat from burgers etc!?

Anyway hope you dont mind me asking..ill probably have to read the article a few more times before i understand it properly!


----------



## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> Joe,
> 
> This is very interesting reading.
> 
> Ive looked up Lyle Mcdonald and been reading the Ultimate diet - this is the one your a following?
> 
> He says that if you goal is gaining muscle then reduce carbs up to 20% and then says but you probably wont loose any fat!?
> 
> How long are you staying on this diet?, i think i read your plan was 140 days?
> 
> Are you able to plan any cheat meals other than the carb ups as my understanding is the carb ups have to be fairly clean i.e no staurated fat from burgers etc!?
> 
> Anyway hope you dont mind me asking..ill probably have to read the article a few more times before i understand it properly!


I am following a CKD not the Ultimate Diet.

I will be on this diet for 20 weeks, and hoping to peak twice for shows.

No cheat meals other than the carb up. I will be keeping fat low whilst on carb up, but not too bothered about simple sugars as I will be depleted when carb up come around.

I am not planning to gain muscle. Anything will be a bonus, this diet is maintenance of muscle whilst shredding the fat.


----------



## dtlv

B|GJOE said:


> I am following a CKD not the Ultimate Diet.
> 
> I will be on this diet for 20 weeks, and hoping to peak twice for shows.
> 
> No cheat meals other than the carb up. I will be keeping fat low whilst on carb up, but not too bothered about simple sugars as I will be depleted when carb up come around.
> 
> I am not planning to gain muscle. Anything will be a bonus, this diet is maintenance of muscle whilst shredding the fat.


Joe - what bodyfat percentage and bodyweight are you aiming to come in at?


----------



## B-GJOE

200lbs <5%

Last year I was 194lbs stage weight and around 4-5%


----------



## ste247

B|GJOE said:


> I am following a CKD not the Ultimate Diet.
> 
> I will be on this diet for 20 weeks, and hoping to peak twice for shows.
> 
> No cheat meals other than the carb up. I will be keeping fat low whilst on carb up, but not too bothered about simple sugars as I will be depleted when carb up come around.
> 
> I am not planning to gain muscle. Anything will be a bonus, this diet is maintenance of muscle whilst shredding the fat.


 how many days out from the show do you start your carb up ? and how many grams of carbs do you have in each meal while doing the carbs up joe, great journal btw.......


----------



## dtlv

B|GJOE said:


> 200lbs <5%
> 
> Last year I was 194lbs stage weight and around 4-5%


Sweet. Am looking forward to seeing the results. Diet wise you know exactly what you are doing so it's just a case of watching it all unfold :thumbup1:


----------



## B-GJOE

ste247 said:


> how many days out from the show do you start your carb up ? and how many grams of carbs do you have in each meal while doing the carbs up joe, great journal btw.......


Last week goes like this. Assuming Show is on Saturday afternoon.

8 Days out start drinking 8ltrs of water a day. And increase sodium intake.

No legs or cardio training for last week.

Weights Mon, Tue, light to deplete glycogen

Start carb up Tues evening after work out with simple sugars.

Wed/Thu/Fri Chicken Breasts and sweet potato. Approx every 2½ hours with 50g carbs per meal. On Wednesday use salt.

Thursday stop all salt intake continue drinking 8ltrs of water.

Friday, stop drinking water about 24 hour from stage.

Friday night before bed, have a high fat meal, steak, chips and eggs.

That's pretty loose. I've got a piece of paper somewhere with all the details, supps, etc etc. When I find it, I'll post it up.


----------



## tonyc74

B|GJOE said:


> Last week goes like this. Assuming Show is on Saturday afternoon.
> 
> 8 Days out start drinking 8ltrs of water a day. And increase sodium intake.
> 
> No legs or cardio training for last week.
> 
> Weights Mon, Tue, light to deplete glycogen
> 
> Start carb up Tues evening after work out with simple sugars.
> 
> Wed/Thu/Fri Chicken Breasts and sweet potato. Approx every 2½ hours with 50g carbs per meal. On Wednesday use salt.
> 
> Thursday stop all salt intake continue drinking 8ltrs of water.
> 
> Friday, stop drinking water about 24 hour from stage.
> 
> Friday night before bed, have a high fat meal, steak, chips and eggs.
> 
> That's pretty loose. I've got a piece of paper somewhere with all the details, supps, etc etc. When I find it, I'll post it up.


This after being on keto for weeks !

Im never going to winge about doing 40 mins of cardio again!


----------



## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> This after being on keto for weeks !
> 
> Im never going to winge about doing 40 mins of cardio again!


No that is the last week before the show.

My weekly carb ups will be about 850g over 18 to 24 hours.

Mostly I go by feeling on the carb up, after a bit of experience you just know when you've had enough and at the point of possible spill over.

I did approx 850g last weekend, and that seems to be enough to get me through my 3 weight sessions.

depletion on friday will be interesting.....


----------



## ste247

B|GJOE said:


> Last week goes like this. Assuming Show is on Saturday afternoon.
> 
> 8 Days out start drinking 8ltrs of water a day. And increase sodium intake.
> 
> No legs or cardio training for last week.
> 
> Weights Mon, Tue, light to deplete glycogen
> 
> Start carb up Tues evening after work out with simple sugars.
> 
> Wed/Thu/Fri Chicken Breasts and sweet potato. Approx every 2½ hours with 50g carbs per meal. On Wednesday use salt.
> 
> Thursday stop all salt intake continue drinking 8ltrs of water.
> 
> Friday, stop drinking water about 24 hour from stage.
> 
> Friday night before bed, have a high fat meal, steak, chips and eggs.
> 
> That's pretty loose. I've got a piece of paper somewhere with all the details, supps, etc etc. When I find it, I'll post it up.


 thanks joe your a big help.....ive been doing keto the last 4 weeks so i want to make sure i get my carb up rite so i dont spill over your a great help.....


----------



## ste247

B|GJOE said:


> No that is the last week before the show.
> 
> My weekly carb ups will be about 850g over 18 to 24 hours.
> 
> Mostly I go by feeling on the carb up, after a bit of experience you just know when you've had enough and at the point of possible spill over.
> 
> I did approx 850g last weekend, and that seems to be enough to get me through my 3 weight sessions.
> 
> depletion on friday will be interesting.....


 oh and when you do your weekly carb up is it clean carbs or do you have a little bit of junk here and there.....


----------



## B-GJOE

ste247 said:


> oh and when you do your weekly carb up is it clean carbs or do you have a little bit of junk here and there.....


Depends what you call clean mate.

I don't go for junk food, but I will do quite a bit of sugar, which I try to ensure is from glucose sources and not fructose or sucrose.

If you do a depletion workout before carb up, high GI foods are the way to go.

So post depletion workout I'll have a shake straight after, 2 hours later, and 2 hours after that. Shake will be 50g Dex, 50g corn starch, 50g whey. First 3 meals of carb up are liquid. This will be it for Friday, then Saturday, It'll be oats mostly, but may have a bag of cookies in there somewhere.


----------



## B-GJOE

New recipe for you keto guys. Just put this one together, nice simple and tastey.

175g Minced Beef

35g Parmesan Cheese

10g Dried Onion Granules

Mash it all together into ball, flatten into a burger, and grill or fry. Lovely!!!


----------



## Taylor01

Feeling better now chap? Lol

I took your advice and just ordered a load of stuff from Predator. Don't tell Laurie, he'll get upset. haha


----------



## B-GJOE

He'll have you shot for treason. Fancy not buying supps for the guy work for.........

Where's my commission predator???

LOL

Feeling better now I've had some carbs, that depletion work out was mental, pun intended as it caused a state of mentalness. Got 1 more shake to have before bed, then it will be about 425g of carbs, leaving a further 425 to eat tomorrow, which will be mainly oats.


----------



## Taylor01

In the 'where did you hear about us?' box, i put BIGJOE, UKM member. haha

I just figured it'd be easier than ordering it and then having to wait til i see Laurie to get it, as he's not in much these days. And when he is it always seems to be the opposite end of the day to when i'm training, and i'm running out of everything fast.

I ordered a sample of that adrenalean stuff on your recommendation too.

God i'm easily influenced.


----------



## dtlv

B|GJOE said:


> He'll have you shot for treason. Fancy not buying supps for the guy work for.........
> 
> Where's my commission predator???
> 
> LOL
> 
> Feeling better now I've had some carbs, that depletion work out was mental, pun intended as it caused a state of mentalness. Got 1 more shake to have before bed, then it will be about 425g of carbs, leaving a further 425 to eat tomorrow, which will be mainly oats.


Blimey, around 400g of oats... I'd find that really hard as they're pretty filling for me. Any particular reason for oats or just convenience?


----------



## B-GJOE

Dtlv74 said:


> Blimey, around 400g of oats... I'd find that really hard as they're pretty filling for me. Any particular reason for oats or just convenience?


I didn't do the oats in the end, I went out for the day with the missus and daughter. So armed myself with some convenience protein bars. Grabbed a couple of glucose based sports drinks. Got back from trip, very hungry, so had 4 rounds of white bread. Total carbs was the same, again avoided fructose based carbs.

I've decided that on carb ups, so long as I avoid sucrose (except for a little cheat to fill the liver back up), keep the fat low, and protein constant I'm not going to bother with a regimented routine, except for the 3 liquid shakes in first 4 hours. I'm going to do what I did this weekend, and just count carb content until I hit 850g, then stop, which seems just right to last me through my workouts.


----------



## Taylor01

How's it gone this week mate?

Dunno why i'm asking on here, i'm working at gym tomorrow so will see you if your training legs tomorrow.


----------



## B-GJOE

no weight loss, but lean increase. Had a cheat today 4 weeks in. Maccy D's. Felt very much more depleted this week than previous weeks, so needed a few extra cals. Got a carb hangover now, and feel very tired.


----------



## Taylor01

Maccy D's isn't a cheat meal, it's cheating yourself out of a proper cheat meal. Nasty sh1t


----------



## spudsy

Great journal joe, :thumb:

Been reading this with interest but no updates for a couple of weeks :confused1: ??????

All the best with the shows,do you think peaking for 3 shows in a month on keto will be anymore difficult than any other dieting method????


----------



## B-GJOE

spudsy said:


> Great journal joe, :thumb:
> 
> Been reading this with interest but no updates for a couple of weeks :confused1: ??????
> 
> All the best with the shows,do you think peaking for 3 shows in a month on keto will be anymore difficult than any other dieting method????


Sorry about the lack of updates. Strange stuff happening at the moment, haven't lost a single lb of bodyweight in almost 4 weeks. 220lbs on a Friday Morning, and 224lbs on a Sunday morning. Been the same for the last 3 weekends. Have reduced cals down to about 2300-2400 from 2600. Doing a minimum of 8 cardio sessions a week. Actually increasing in strength in the gym. And still don't intend to use any peds or stims until 8 weeks out. Currently 71 days out. However, general opinion is that I am getting leaner. And I currently think I am as lean, or a little leaner than I was 10 weeks out last year. However, at 10 weeks out last year I was about 214lbs. I think the lack of scale weight loss is because I am taking a concoction of AAKG, BCAA, Taurine, Creatine twice a day whilst natty. This is maybe holding water. Also taking lean xtreme, don't know if that is the reason.

I know dieting is a mental roller coaster, however. It can be just as mentally tough when your body is doing good things, because you want to understand why. Like, how can I be on a calorie defecit keto diet, doing 8 cardio sessions per week, and gain stength whilst getting leaner, it's almost too good to be true.

As for peaking for 3 shows on Keto, who knows??? Only time will tell. I don't have or want a coach, the whole thing is about experience, experimentation, and learning for me. I'm no expert, and certainly don't know how my body will cope with it. That for me is the excitement.


----------



## spudsy

As long as your getting leaner that's the main thing mate. :thumb:

I think we can all get a bit too hung up with scale weight sometimes... whether we're looking to gain or lose weight!

What is your plan for when you add PED's and stims ????? No doubt you'll be able to cut your cals back quite a bit once you get 'on' without worrying about losing too much muscle ( not that it sounds like your losing any at the min).

Anyway fella good luck with it all :thumbup1:


----------



## FATBOY

jo

the mr linconshire 3rd of july is that the show you did last year ? do you have any details on it m8


----------



## B-GJOE

FATBOY said:


> jo
> 
> the mr linconshire 3rd of july is that the show you did last year ? do you have any details on it m8


Yep 3rd July Mr Lincs

Shows

East Anglian http://www.anglianbodybuilding.co.uk/

Mr Peterborough http://mrpeterborough.co.uk/

Mr Lincolnshire http://www.freewebs.com/newimagegym/mrlincolnshireshow.htm


----------



## the machine

Great log Joe, can't wait for pics, i did the keto two years running, i didnt compete but bodyfat was reading 6%ish.

i found myself pulling down fats to lean off.

The best meals were 100g shredded lettuce 100g smoked salmon with 4 poached eggs only 2 whole dusted withy parmizan cheese, sometimes i'd have kippers instead.

evening would be restricted to blend protein frozen then in the blender with whipping cream and back in the freezer great deserts!


----------



## B-GJOE

Right guys it Photo time, and it aint looking good. Below are some comparisons to 10 weeks out last year, now 10 weeks out. I'm not as lean as I was last year at this point, and also not looking as full. So no need to flame on this one, I can see where I am what I've got to do. In 2009 pics I was on Test at this point, and this year I an natty at the same point. Also last year, my biggest changes were 8 to 5 weeks out, hoping for the same this year. So here goes.


----------



## mal

the difference is very noticable,but you should'nt compare really

imo,stick at it mate and follow the plan.


----------



## B-GJOE

mal said:


> the difference is very noticable,but you should'nt compare really
> 
> imo,stick at it mate and follow the plan.


I'm not panicking. At 10 weeks out last year, I was on the juice, and had been on ECA for about 3-4 weeks. My body tends to do nothing for a while, then changes dramatically all of a sudden. I remember last year not budging for a while then all of a sudden the fat just melted. So long as this happens again this year it's all to play for.


----------



## mal

B|GJOE said:


> I'm not panicking. At 10 weeks out last year, I was on the juice, and had been on ECA for about 3-4 weeks. My body tends to do nothing for a while, then changes dramatically all of a sudden. I remember last year not budging for a while then all of a sudden the fat just melted. So long as this happens again this year it's all to play for.


agree,plenty of good muscle under there.shoud be fine.

are you using any supp's in the run up.eca?


----------



## B-GJOE

mal said:


> agree,plenty of good muscle under there.shoud be fine.
> 
> are you using any supp's in the run up.eca?


Yep! From 8 weeks out I'll be hitting Yohimbine and ECA.


----------



## mal

B|GJOE said:


> Yep! From 8 weeks out I'll be hitting Yohimbine and ECA.


 what carbs will you be on daily at that point,or are you cycling all the way in.


----------



## B-GJOE

mal said:


> what carbs will you be on daily at that point,or are you cycling all the way in.


No carbs, CKD all the way, same as last year.


----------



## mal

B|GJOE said:


> No carbs, CKD all the way, same as last year.


i will have to read up on this ckd as i have no idea what it means lol,

from that i presume its all fat's and protein,am i right?


----------



## B-GJOE

mal said:


> i will have to read up on this ckd as i have no idea what it means lol,
> 
> from that i presume its all fat's and protein,am i right?


Basically yes. Fats & Proteins Sun-Fri, Carbs and protein Saturday.


----------



## Taylor01

I'd like to publicly apologise for being sh1te at taking pictures. lol

Like you said, you know what you've gotta do and how to do it, and you know full well from 8 weeks out to 5 you'll change dramatically.

How are the legs feeling? mine are in pieces and i only did a fraction of what you did rest-pause wise on the leg press just to get a feel for it. Had a massive cramp in my left quad in the takeaway line in pizza hut last night and proper booted the bloke behind me, who probably would've kicked off, but then my ham cramped, followed by my adductors, and i was dancing about like a nutter with a mental grimace on my face. lol

On a side note, did you say you had a Pdf file with DC training outlined in it? Because i wouldn't mind having a look if you get time to chuck it my way.

Apparently the gym is closed on sunday, not really sure how i'm gonna play it for my normal sunday session yet.


----------



## Guest

sorry if ive missed it but why were you using gear last year but not this year?


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> I'd like to publicly apologise for being sh1te at taking pictures. lol
> 
> Like you said, you know what you've gotta do and how to do it, and you know full well from 8 weeks out to 5 you'll change dramatically.
> 
> How are the legs feeling? mine are in pieces and i only did a fraction of what you did rest-pause wise on the leg press just to get a feel for it. Had a massive cramp in my left quad in the takeaway line in pizza hut last night and proper booted the bloke behind me, who probably would've kicked off, but then my ham cramped, followed by my adductors, and i was dancing about like a nutter with a mental grimace on my face. lol
> 
> On a side note, did you say you had a Pdf file with DC training outlined in it? Because i wouldn't mind having a look if you get time to chuck it my way.
> 
> Apparently the gym is closed on sunday, not really sure how i'm gonna play it for my normal sunday session yet.


Hang on a second! The gym is closed on Sunday???? WTF is that all about.

Mmmmm let me think.................Ah! Mr Taylor, are you not an employee at the gym???..................Do you have a key....................Talk to Pete and get him to let you open for a personal session.

Bank holidays are for pussies. Training stops for no-one!!!


----------



## B-GJOE

Dan said:


> sorry if ive missed it but why were you using gear last year but not this year?


Natty at this point in the prep. Another 2 weeks, then boom!!!


----------



## FATBOY

the best thing is you have been there before so you know how your body reacts ,

as said you just need to stick to the plan :thumb:


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> Hang on a second! The gym is closed on Sunday???? WTF is that all about.
> 
> Mmmmm let me think.................Ah! Mr Taylor, are you not an employee at the gym???..................Do you have a key....................Talk to Pete and get him to let you open for a personal session.
> 
> Bank holidays are for pussies. Training stops for no-one!!!


I'll speak to him and try to talk him round, but when i mentioned it earlier, he just said that he's not allowed to be open by law because it's over 3000sq ft or something, and thats pretty much where the conversation ended.

I've been trying to track down somewhere thats open but i'm struggling, and i'm at the day job until 11-12 apparently so i'm guessing most places , if open at all, will close at 12.

I think if it comes to it i can bring sunday's leg session forward to saturday, i'm guessing you dont have that luxury, unless you put your carb up back by a day and train monday, but that's messing with the plan, and thats just wrong. lol


----------



## B-GJOE

I mean, who gives a damn fcuk that it is the first Sunday after the first full moon post spring equinox? Which is just proof that the Christians stole Easter from the pagans. Because if we celebrated the proposed resurrection of Christ, it would be on the same day each year. So right does the law have to tell us when we can open a business, based on some religion stealing some pagan rights. It don't make sense and i'm p1ssed off about it.

Rant over!!!


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> I mean, who gives a damn fcuk that it is the first Sunday after the first full moon post spring equinox? Which is just proof that the Christians stole Easter from the pagans. Because if we celebrated the proposed resurrection of Christ, it would be on the same day each year. So right does the law have to tell us when we can open a business, based on some religion stealing some pagan rights. It don't make sense and i'm p1ssed off about it.
> 
> Rant over!!!


The law would rather we had skinny legs obviously. You could try givin pete a ring, no harm in asking is there, he is sponsoring you for competing after all. Lol


----------



## mal

B|GJOE said:


> Natty at this point in the prep. Another 2 weeks, then boom!!!


ah, so you will be.... whats your plan for this cycle?


----------



## B-GJOE

mal said:


> ah, so you will be.... whats your plan for this cycle?


That's a secret!!! Don't plan to tell until after it's over. Too many opinions etc. Also bit of an experiment going on here. All will be revealed!


----------



## mal

B|GJOE said:


> That's a secret!!! Don't plan to tell until after it's over. Too many opinions etc. Also bit of an experiment going on here. All will be revealed!


ok mate,keeping them options open then!

i know what i would do:lol:


----------



## B-GJOE

If I post up what I'm doing I will get every kind of objection and agreement there is going. Which just fcuks your head up, so I'll find out for myself.


----------



## dtlv

B|GJOE said:


> That's a secret!!! Don't plan to tell until after it's over. Too many opinions etc. Also bit of an experiment going on here. All will be revealed!


Sounds interesting... me likes a good mystery


----------



## B-GJOE

Well, after a period of no bodyweight loss, almost 4 weeks in total. My body is doing exactly what I expected, dropping quickly after a period of nothing. Friday AM weigh in has been 15st10lbs for the last few weeks, today it's 15st5½lbs. A massive 4½ lbs in 1 week. Just the way my body works I guess!


----------



## Bri

B|GJOE said:


> Well, after a period of no bodyweight loss, almost 4 weeks in total. My body is doing exactly what I expected, dropping quickly after a period of nothing. Friday AM weigh in has been 15st10lbs for the last few weeks, today it's 15st5½lbs. A massive 4½ lbs in 1 week. Just the way my body works I guess!


That's strange isn't it? Nice one on the weight loss though Joe!

I'm gonna be following this now buddy! :thumb:

Btw the diet you gave me is going really really well, I've dropped 3-4 pounds and have got stronger on all my lifts! Doin something right i guess!


----------



## B-GJOE

Bri said:


> That's strange isn't it? Nice one on the weight loss though Joe!
> 
> I'm gonna be following this now buddy! :thumb:
> 
> Btw the diet you gave me is going really really well, I've dropped 3-4 pounds and have got stronger on all my lifts! Doin something right i guess!


Well done, please you are getting results you want. I'm back up 4lbs since yesterday, but still 4lbs down overall. I tend to weigh pre and post carb up.


----------



## Taylor01

7am cardio club tomoro i hear. See you there fatty. If i get up of course


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> 7am cardio club tomoro i hear. See you there fatty. If i get up of course


send me your mobile on facebook and i will text you up.


----------



## B-GJOE

*POST NUMBER 2000!!!!*


----------



## B-GJOE

B|GJOE said:


> *POST NUMBER 2000!!!!*


Can I be a gold member now???


----------



## B-GJOE

Had to cut my calories even more. Body doesn't seem to be dropping weight at the expected rate. Maybe something to do with no fat burners or PEDs yet. 6 more days until phase 2. Current diet is:

*Meal 1*

30g of Nutrisport 90+ (Pro 25.8, Carbs 2.0, Fat 0.8)

44g of Peanut Butter (Pro 10.8, Carbs 4.4, Fat 22.4)

Total (Pro 36.6 (146.5 Cals), Carbs 6.4 (25.6 Cals), Fat 23.2 (208.7 Cals) (Total 380.8 Calories)

Or

5 Whole Happy Eggs (300g) - (Pro 37.5 (150 Cals), Carbs 0 (0 Cals), Fat 33.6 (302 Cals) (Total 452.4 Calories)

*Meal 2*

Smoked Salmon 175g (Pro 40.8, Carbs 1.3, Fat 42.2)

10 Flax Oil (Pro 0, Carbs 1.1, Fat 8.5)

10 Olive Oil (Pro 0, Carbs 0, Fat 42.2)

Watercress, rocket, spinach salad (Not worth counting)

Total (Pro 40.8 (163.1 Cals), Carbs 1.3 (5.1 Cals), Fats 42.2 (379.8 Cals)) (Total 548 Calories)

*Meal 3*

Turkey Breast 225g (Pro 49.3, Carbs 0, Fat 1.1)

10 Flax Oil (Pro 0, Carbs 1.1, Fat 8.5)

10 Olive Oil (Pro 0, Carbs 0, Fat 42.2)

Watercress, rocket, spinach salad (Not worth counting)

Total (Pro 49.3 (197.1 Cals), Carbs 1.1 (4.4 Cals), Fat 18.8 (169.4 Cals)) (Total Calories 371.0)

*Meal 4*

PWO Training Days Only (Sun, Mon, Tue)

30g Nutrisport 90+ (Pro 25.8 (103.2 Cals), Carbs 2 (8.2 Cals), Fat 0.8 (7.6 Cals)) (Total Calories 118.9)

*Meal 5*

200g of Trout (Pro 44 (176 Cals), Carbs 2.8 (11.2 Cals), Fats 10.8 (97.2 Cals)) (Total Calories 284.4)

Or

200g Salmon Fillet (Pro 47 (188 Cals), Carbs 0.4 (1.6 Cals, Fat 22.6 (203.4 Cals)) (Total Calories 393)

*Meal 6*

250g Rump Steak (Pro 55 (220 Cals), Carbs 0 (0 Cals), Fat 12.5 (112.5 Cals)) (Total Calories 332.5)

*Total Nutrients per day based on highest calorie options and workout day:*

Protein 255.4g (1021 Calories) (46.12 % of Calories)

Carbs 19.2 (19.2 Calories) (0.87% of Calories)

Fats 130.5 (1174.5 Calories) (53.02% of Calories)

(2215.3 Total Calories)

*Total Nutrients per day based on lowest calorie options non workout day:*

Protein 225.7g (902.8 Calories) (47.40% of Calories)

Carbs 8.6g (34.4 Calories) (1.81% of Calories)

Fats 107.5g (967.5 Calories (50.80% of Calories)

(1904.7 Total Calories)

*Average of the above scenarios*

Protein 240.55g (962.2 Calories) (46.71% of Calories)

Carbs 6.7g (26.8 Calories) (1.3% of Calories)

Fats 119g (1071 Calories) (51.99% of Calories)

(2060 Total Calories)

The first thing you may notice is that I have gone against my own advice, and I have upped protein to over the 1g per lb of lean body mass, and have added a small amount of vegetables. Lets see how it goes. I am in ketosis as I have got the old ketostix, again, this goes against my advice that they are a waste of time and effort. I guess I've officially become a hypocrite. PMSL

Well I suppose now is a good time to quote my definition of madness

'To keep doing what you are doing and expecting a different result'

As I am not getting the desired results then something has to change. Last year I seemed to get the results without increasing protein and decreasing fats. But I am doing some things different this year, especially where stims and peds are concerned. Some will argue that I should've just stuck with what I did last year as I reached pretty good condition. The way I see is that if I did the exactly the same things, I would've learned nothing.

My body weight this morning was 220lbs, that's 5lbs greater than my depleted weight of last friday morning. I havn't dropped any weight since my carb up this week, which is a little bit concerning. Bodyfat calipers are saying about 14% bodyfat, so to be honest I think my starting % was too optimistic. Visually I'd estimate I am 2 weeks behind on last year.

Biceps 17"

Calf 16¾"

Quads 26¼"

Chest (Spread) 49½"

Waist (A Fcuking fat) 35"

Just under 9 weeks to go.

So where has it all gone wrong? Well I'd be fcuked if know :confused1:

For 7 weeks I've been doing between 7 and 10 cardio sessions (30-45 mins) including fasted in the morning. I've been training like a mad man, and getting stronger all the time. I've been eating no more than 2600 cals a day, average of about 2400, my BMR is about 2100.

Lets just see if I can pull it round!!!!


----------



## hilly

very strange mate. do you think a possible thyroid/metabolism issue?


----------



## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> very strange mate. do you think a possible thyroid/metabolism issue?


I don't think so mate, I have had no energy problems, and I haven't been feeling cold, which are signs of slowing metabolism. Also, have been supplementing sea kelp and alfalfa for iodine which helps thyroid, and also been having coconut oils which also boost thyroid. In fact, my energy has been excellent lately.


----------



## Lois_Lane

Give it time.....

Jan i was 220lb today i was 220lb, slightly different body composition though!


----------



## pipebomb

I recently took a week of my diet for the same reasons when i went back to it guess what

the weight started to come of great again. For me personally a break was all i needed to get the fat burning again


----------



## B-GJOE

Lois_Lane said:


> Give it time.....
> 
> Jan i was 220lb today i was 220lb, slightly different body composition though!


So you don't think it is time for.....................










yet? :thumb:


----------



## Lois_Lane

B|GJOE said:


> So you don't think it is time for.....................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yet? :thumb:


Actually on second thoughts.....

Time to get on a protein only diet with 5 hours of cardio per day:thumbup1:


----------



## B-GJOE

Lois_Lane said:


> Actually on second thoughts.....
> 
> Time to get on a protein only diet with 5 hours of cardio per day:thumbup1:


Just off to the shops to get 12 dozen eggs (bin the yolks), 5kg of turkey breasts, and a bucket of prawns. :lol:


----------



## BIG-UNC

what does the mirror say joe?


----------



## B-GJOE

BIG-UNC said:


> what does the mirror say joe?


Approx 10-14 days behind where I should be compared to last year.


----------



## ste247

hay joe ive been snooping on this thread for a while now without posting lol, its a bummer about the weight loss stall iam sure you will sort it out tho, the important thing is just staying focused on your goal and everything will fall into place.


----------



## defdaz

Hey Joe, sorry to hear you feel you're two weeks behind. I'm sure you'll figure out what's going on (no sleep walking back to the choc factory during the night for a midnight feast you think!?). Scientific approach says just change one thing at a time but that kinda ignores the whole need to be ready on a specific date issue!

About the fat burners - made me wonder whether there is some sort of rate-limiting factor going on that last year the fat burners helped over-come or provided the necessary missing (or too-low) factor that was causing the problem? Just musing...


----------



## dtlv

I doubt there's anything i could suggest that you haven't thought of already, but here are afew thoughts anyway -

Maybe substitute some of the olive oil for coconut oil? Better thermic effect from MCTs, although I wouldn't displace all the MUFAs as they are probably the healthiest lipid.

You don't rely too much on shakes which IMO is good, but casein is very thermogenic, possibly the most thermogenic of all proteins, and maybe substituting some solid protein for casein might help?

Also dropping calories may not be the answer to how to create the further defecit due to the metabolism slowing effect this has - maybe keep calories the same but increase HIIT type cardio to create deficit that way? Not always a practical option though.

GTE and caffiene? Natural stim combo that does work.

Drink more water?


----------



## B-GJOE

Dtlv74 said:


> I doubt there's anything i could suggest that you haven't thought of already, but here are afew thoughts anyway -
> 
> Maybe substitute some of the olive oil for coconut oil? Better thermic effect from MCTs, although I wouldn't displace all the MUFAs as they are probably the healthiest lipid.
> 
> You don't rely too much on shakes which IMO is good, but casein is very thermogenic, possibly the most thermogenic of all proteins, and maybe substituting some solid protein for casein might help?
> 
> Also dropping calories may not be the answer to how to create the further defecit due to the metabolism slowing effect this has - maybe keep calories the same but increase HIIT type cardio to create deficit that way? Not always a practical option though.
> 
> GTE and caffiene? Natural stim combo that does work.
> 
> Drink more water?


Thanks for response. Ironically I have actually removed coconut oil from the plan. I used this for the first 6 weeks of diet, at about 60g to 80g per day. Now not using it, because I had little success with it for first 6 weeks.

Last year I was using stims yohimbine and ECA right from 12 weeks out.

I only started using them today, at 8 weeks out.

Water consumption has a been minimum of 3ltrs per day, up to about 5ltrs. Well, not strictly water, but mostly cold green tea.

I don't think I am doing anything drastically wrong, I think I basically over estimated the amount of fat I started with.

Last year I was experimenting with keto from Jan to end Feb. Then I did 7 weeks of Keto with calorie defecit for about 7 weeks to see if worked, before starting contest prep at 12 weeks out.

I knew I was carrying more fat this year, so I opted for 16 weeks prep. I really think I simply underestimated my starting point.

Still not too worried, as last year I was almost ready 2 weeks early, so If the next 8 weeks go to plan, I'll be OK.

I have also upped cardio this week. To this point I have been doing 40 minutes fasted am cardio, 30 minutes post workout, and 45 minutes on non training days in the evening.

Starting this week I am 60 minutes fasted am cardio, 30 minutes post workout, and 60 minutes in evenings non training days.

Due underestimation of starting bodyfat, I think my starting total cals was too high. 2600ish per day, and I thought I could maintain this throughout diet. I looked at some spreadsheets from last year, and have cut cals to the same as they were last year at 8 weeks out. Just 2100, didn't cause an muscle loss issue last year, so see no reason why it should this year.

We learn more when things go wrong than whey they go right, so I am just happy to have the opportunity to learn something about myself.

Thanks for maintaining interest. I won't be around much this week, as I am at the missus house, and I forgot my netbook. So will only get chance to check UKM when laptop is available.


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Hey Joe, sorry to hear you feel you're two weeks behind. I'm sure you'll figure out what's going on (no sleep walking back to the choc factory during the night for a midnight feast you think!?). Scientific approach says just change one thing at a time but that kinda ignores the whole need to be ready on a specific date issue!
> 
> About the fat burners - made me wonder whether there is some sort of rate-limiting factor going on that last year the fat burners helped over-come or provided the necessary missing (or too-low) factor that was causing the problem? Just musing...


I think you maybe right. The fat burners were probably masking my true ability to burn fat. Also, I am very sensitive to ECA particularly, can feel the thermogenesis, increased heart rate, jitters, from just a 30/200/80 split. Yohimbine on the other hand, I can take that at higher doses without feeling any side effects. So expecting some serious catch up to happen in the next few weeks that I am back on.

Starting today

17.5g Yohimbine and 200mg caffeine, 3g Tyrosine, 4g BCAA before fasted cardio.

ECA 6 hours later

ECA 4 hours later (pre-workout/cardio)


----------



## defdaz

Calorie reduction, cardio increase, fat burners added = party time! This week will be a big one I think mate, make sure the drains nearby don't get blocked from all the fat running off you 

Are you still carb loading at weekends or?


----------



## B-GJOE

Yep! Carb load fri eve to sat eve. Low fat, high carb and protein. Mainly sweet potato and turkey.


----------



## B-GJOE

Been bit of a hell week this week. Even though I am off work, feeling really lethargic in spite of the fact that I am on stimulant fat burners. Calories slightly below 2000, cardio twice a day. Also feeling a bit cold, sure sign of metabolic slow down. So will need a good carb up this weekend.

Weight today is same as it was last friday morning, so I am anticipating 215lbs in the morning, which puts me in exactly the same place as I was 2 weeks ago.

Good news is that people are starting to say that I look leaner now. So the fact that I am not loosing scale weight but getting leaner is surely a good thing, but hard to get my head round.

Another couple of weeks like this week and I think I'll be back on track.


----------



## B-GJOE

Good morning followers.............or not!

Well this morning weighed in after morning p!ss, and I have gained another 1lb since same time last week. 2 weeks ago was 215lbs, now in at 217lbs. No comment..................

Although pal at gym is calling me a fcuking freak.


----------



## stl

Hi Joe,



> Well this morning weighed in after morning p!ss, and I have gained another 1lb since same time last week. 2 weeks ago was 215lbs, now in at 217lbs. No comment..................


But are you any leaner? any difference in bodyfat % or measurements?

I wouldn't get hung up over the scales mate.

Stay positive!


----------



## defdaz

Absolutely, get a pump going in the gym and see how you look. Oh and post some pics - we might be able to help, never know?


----------



## defdaz

Oh and is T3 banned? Just asking? :whistling:


----------



## B-GJOE

My mate Laurrie Carr Mr Universe 2008 runner up had a look at me Friday, he thinks that I look very wet and watery. This got me thinking...............................

I remember last year taking potassium as the Keto Diet is lacking in potassium but has plenty of sodium in Eggs, and smoked salmon etc. So maybe I have a water problem. Going to get some potassium supplement today, and will drink more water next week, see if that has an effect.

7 Weeks still possible if I can drop 1% bf per week, which will be about 2lbs.

Gonna put in 2 HIIT cardio sessions per week and see if that does the trick.

As for pics, will do probably next weekend.


----------



## defdaz

Ah, would explain a lot. Let us know how the potassium works out.


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Ah, would explain a lot. Let us know how the potassium works out.


Managed to hit 222lbs Sunday Morning after carb up. Scary!!

I've drank 3ltrs of water already today, and will probably do another litre before bed.

Even people at work are saying I am looking leaner. All hope is not lost....


----------



## B-GJOE

Thought I had better post up something to let you know how it is going.

Weighed in at 220lbs this morning, so still weight is not moving, actually gaining weight on a sub 2000cal diet. Looking leaner though.

Training is going well. My back and bicep workout today was as follows:

Seated Row

140kg for 10

30 seconds rest

140kg for 5

20 seconds rest

130kg for 4

20 seconds rest

120kg for 4

20 seconds rest

100kg for 5

20 seconds rest

100kg for 4

2½ Minutes Rest

Wide Grip Pulldown to the front

65kg for 6

30 seconds rest

65kg for 4

20 seconds rest

60kg for 4

20 seconds rest

60kg for 4

20 second rest

55kg for 4

20 seconds rest

55kg for 4

20 seconds rest

2½ Minutes rest

Reverse close grip pulldown to front

60kg for 8

30 seconds rest

60kg for 5

20 seconds rest

55kg for 5

20 seconds rest

55kg for 5

20 seconds rest

50kg for 5½

20 seconds rest

50kg for 5

4 Minutes rest

Deadlift

140kg for 10

30 seconds rest

140kg for 5

20 seconds rest

140kg for 3

20 seconds rest

130kg for 3

20 seconds rest

120kg for 4

60 seconds rest

100kg for 15 with 3 short rest pauses

4 minutes rest

Lying down cable curl

75kg for 9

30 seconds rest

75kg for 5

20 seconds rest

70kg for 5

20 seconds rest

70kg for 3

2½ Minutes rest

Body drag Curls

35kg for 8

30 seconds rest

35kg for 6

20 seconds rest

30kg for 5

20 seconds rest

30kg for 5

30 Minutes on the stepper.

Body Measurements

Bicep 17¼

Thigh 26¼

Waist 34½

Calf 16½

Chest Expanded 48½

Bodyfat (calipers) 11.5%

40 days left until first show.


----------



## XL

Joe, what is a body drag curl?


----------



## kingy_88

good luck joe keep it up mate :thumb:


----------



## B-GJOE

Brandl said:


> Joe, what is a body drag curl?


You drag the straight bar up your body. Like a curl, but the bar stays in contact with the body, so instead of an arc, you pull the bar straight up. It hits the bicep from both joints instead of just 1.


----------



## XL

Okay cool, I'll give that a blast tomorrow.


----------



## B-GJOE

Friday AM weigh in this morning and the scales are painting scary picture. But I still feel leaner. Last 5 weigh ins

219

215

216

217

218 (Today)

I'll try and get some photo's up

6 weeks on sunday till first show.

Do I hit the reset button (Have a massive refeed to kick the metabolism into touch) or the panic button (Small refeed, and another calorie reduction)?

Stage weight last year was 194lbs


----------



## LittleChris

Have you taken photos throughout? Would be the only way to tell if you are actually leaner rather.


----------



## dtlv

B|GJOE said:


> Friday AM weigh in this morning and the scales are painting scary picture. But I still feel leaner. Last 5 weigh ins
> 
> 219
> 
> 215
> 
> 216
> 
> 217
> 
> 218 (Today)
> 
> I'll try and get some photo's up
> 
> 6 weeks on sunday till first show.
> 
> Do I hit the reset button (Have a massive refeed to kick the metabolism into touch) or the panic button (Small refeed, and another calorie reduction)?
> 
> Stage weight last year was 194lbs


Do you take caliper measurements Joe? If you feel leaner then your instinct is probably right... it seems to me that you know exactly what you are doing and understand your own body very well.


----------



## B-GJOE

Ok managed to get a quick picture this evening, depleted before carb up.

This is me 3 weeks and 5 days ago, weighing in at 219lbs



















The next 2 pictures are me today, weighing in at 218lbs


----------



## hilly

definite improvements joe and how many weeks left?


----------



## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> definite improvements joe and how many weeks left?


6 weeks and 2 days left until first show. I still believe that I can do it. I am clearly holding a lot of water, and clearly recomping quite well to be the same weight but much sharper after just 26 days, and got 44 to go.


----------



## hilly

im sure you can mate and i look forward to following along.


----------



## spudsy

Definitely leaner mate, centre chest and arms especially.


----------



## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> im sure you can mate and i look forward to following along.


Cheers Hilly. I'm pleased I took those photo's today, as I have been watching the scales far too much and worrying. Guess I'll just have to face the fact that I am going to be much heavier this year compared to last. I think about 7lbs, which is a pretty good muscle gain for an old 39 year old.


----------



## B-GJOE

Right guys, I'm just assessing where I think I am this year compared to last year. I estimate that I am about 2 weeks behind.

OK this me last year at 8 weeks out - 2009.

















And this is me at 6 weeks out last year - 2009










This is me 6 Weeks out this year - 2010










I think that I look similar at 6 weeks out this year as I did 8 weeks out last year. However, last year I made some pretty good changes from 8 to 6 weeks out, so I know I can drop and change at a decent rate.

Personally I think that I have problems with water until I reach a certain bodyfat level, and then it's all change.

Is it possible to pull back 2 weeks at 6 weeks out? I'm already 200 cals lower than my lowest dieting level last year.

Think I may increase the Eph to 60mg Caff 200mg, is this a good idea??


----------



## Taylor01

shouldn't think it'll hurt mate.

Ok, yes you are about 2 weeks behind where you were last year, but if i remember rightly, seeing you in the gym on fridays from 4 weeks out last year with Laurie and Pete taking a look at you, you could've stepped on stage from 3-4 weeks out and not looked out of place, so in fairness, you're not behind at all, it's just that last year you were ahead.

And also, shirts off competition at the Mr. Peterboghorror, 5 weeks out, you were in near enough stage shape then.

I guess what i'm saying is, last year you came in easily, this year you won't be off, you'll just be on a tighter timescale in the last few weeks up to the Anglia, and then peeled to the bone for the other 2.

So stop panicking and being a pussy and get on with it.


----------



## B-GJOE

60mg of ephedrine is great man jibber jabber and you can really jibber jabber jibber jabber feel it.


----------



## nutnut

Hi Joe, just catching up with the thread... I tried making dessert things but I was too impatient and screwed it up and it tasted crap lol.. I still ate it tho 

60mg eph, don't think I've ever taken more than 30mg!

keep going buddy you'll come in even better this time!!!


----------



## B-GJOE

As I posted on FB this morning.

'After declaring war on my fat cells, they have finally decided to evacuate'

Made some massive difference in the last 7 days. I'm expecting to be 4lbs down this week. If I can have another 3 or 4 weeks like I've had this week then we're on the money.

It's a bit like de ja vu. Same thing happened last year, virtually nothing, then I ripped up in a matter of a few weeks.

As Taylor01 pointed out, I may be 2 weeks behind, but I came in early last year.


----------



## B-GJOE

The difference a week can make. Here are some photos I took tonight, after 6 days keto, depleted, just before I necked my carb shake.


----------



## FATBOY

its coming m8 just belive  its a road you have already travelld so you know it will come together


----------



## stl

Looking good joe :thumbup1:


----------



## B-GJOE

5 weeks to go, lost 4.25lbs this week, if I can do that for next 3 weeks, that will be almost a stone, and put me right where I need to be if I'm to look anything like last year.


----------



## suliktribal

B|GJOE said:


> 5 weeks to go, lost 4.25lbs this week, if I can do that for next 3 weeks, that will be almost a stone, and put me right where I need to be if I'm to look anything like last year.


Nice going Joe. Great journal.

One tip though..... get those baked beans down ya! :thumb:


----------



## Taylor01

Pics don't do it justice mate.

Hate to say i told you so, but, Is the pizza ordered yet? lol


----------



## spudsy

Its all coming together now Joe, amazing difference in a week:thumb:


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> *Pics don't do it justice mate.*
> 
> Hate to say i told you so, but, Is the pizza ordered yet? lol


Then you and Phil need to go to photo school, or sort the lighting out in the changing room!


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> Then you and Phil need to go to photo school, or sort the lighting out in the changing room!


Both got the same phones with the same sh!te cameras. Have you got a decent digi camera to do next week's on?


----------



## nutnut

B|GJOE said:


> 5 weeks to go, lost 4.25lbs this week, if I can do that for next 3 weeks, that will be almost a stone, and put me right where I need to be if I'm to look anything like last year.


Well done mate, keep it up :beer:


----------



## B-GJOE

A little over 4 weeks to go until the Anglian, and boy I've got some work to do if I am to hit the stage in same condition as last year. Body is being stubborn as fcuk at the moment. I certainly don't have the safety blanket I had last year with being almost there at 3 weeks out. I was hoping for another 3lbs this week, but it's looking like being a measly 1 or 2.

I still have the option of skipping the Anglian and concentrating on the Lincs and Peterborough. But really hope it doesn't come to that.

Seriously considering a big dirty meal at end of refeed this weekend. The week I lost 4 and a quarter lbs was after a moderately dirty refeed. Last weekend I did a short and fairly clean refeed, and not done so well this week. Just putting 2 and 2 together and making 6.

I suppose the upside is that I'm learning more this year than last year as it was pretty plain sailing previously. So at least now I have the opportunity to learn how to get back on track after a set back.

I think this years mistakes are:

1. Underestimated how fat I was before diet.

2. No stims or PED's until 8 weeks out. Last year was 12 weeks out.


----------



## hilly

ive found this year when properly depleted a ****load so to speak has produced much better results than a clean refeed pal.

keep grafting 4 weeks is a long time


----------



## B-GJOE

I believe the lincolnshire is an open show, it is ran by Mark Dawson from NewImageSupplements, site sponsor. Or go to his website http://www.newimagegym.co.uk/ and contact him from there. Pretty sure there were competitors from all over last year.


----------



## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> ive found this year when properly depleted a ****load so to speak has produced much better results than a clean refeed pal.
> 
> keep grafting 4 weeks is a long time


I am certainly proper depleted come carb up time. On friday evenings I do a depletion workout whole body circuit style, about 44 sets within an hour, no resting between sets.


----------



## daniel.m

Hi there Joe, i've read through the journal and it seems to me that your physique is changing at a rapid rate.

Also, it seems that you are pretty clued up on nutrition and in particular the keto diet.

Do you mind if i ask a few questions?

Im 5 days into keto now and am finding the diet fine, i have a holiday in 4 weeks or so, on which i will be eating carbs, do you think i would be ok on 0 carbs until then, i know the usual refeed is after 2 weeks.

Do you think it would be helping to drink BCAA during training also?

Thanks


----------



## B-GJOE

Yeah, body is changing at a rapid rate now, I seem to be the reverse of everyone else. Most people loose loads at the start of a diet and struggle at the end, I struggle to get started, then breeze through. About 9 weeks of not much before things started to happen, without changing too much.

Going 5 weeks pure keto is not a good idea, you'll crash sooner or later on your weight sessions. Try doing a refeed every 10 days or so. Or have the refeed after 2 weeks, then go another 2 weeks, then 1 week keto, then holiday. Alternatively you could stay low carb on holiday, just go for the mixed grills.


----------



## daniel.m

Ok Joe thanks for the input, i'm currently reading Lyle McDonald: The Ketogenic Diet

Did you start the cardio as soon as you started the diet?

What are your thought of glutamine and BCAA during training? or any other supplements worth including


----------



## B-GJOE

daniel.m said:


> Ok Joe thanks for the input, i'm currently reading Lyle McDonald: The Ketogenic Diet
> 
> Did you start the cardio as soon as you started the diet?
> 
> What are your thought of glutamine and BCAA during training? or any other supplements worth including


I use 4g of BCAA before fasted cardio only. I don't use glutamine, in fact i've even stopped having whey pwo, and just have my 5 set meals a day.


----------



## Taylor01

How's it goin mate?

Have you found your phone yet?


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> How's it goin mate?
> 
> Have you found your phone yet?


Yep, found my phone mate, and found a cure for cardio, it's called 14 hours a day decorating.


----------



## B-GJOE

Prep is going better now, had a fantastic 3 weeks. Lost a total of just over 10lbs in 21 days. With another 21 days until first show, should be good to go if things carry on as they have been.

The only thing that is pis5ing me off at the moment is something stupid I did. Last week I was off work and spent the whole week decorating. Unfortunately I didn't think, and I did a full body shave on last sunday. With all the decorating, sweating, dust and paint I did, obviously my skin pores got pretty blocked on my arms and bottom of my neck where my t-shirt wasn't covering. Now my arms and top of chest have errupted into a very unsightly inflamed red mess and it's irritating the fcuk out of me mentally and physically. Lets hope it all clears up this week.


----------



## B-GJOE

Things are looking a bit dire at the moment. The skin on my arms, upper chest, and lower neck is still in a pretty bad way. It's not severely itching or irrupting any more, but it is very sore and red, and causing a massive fluid retention problem in the chest and arms to the point that all definition has gone. Due to the worry so close to a show, I am also holding fluid everywhere else, and have ankles like a pregnant woman's. Still 19 days to go, so hopefully it will clear soon. I've also had to stop taking stims, as the body temperature increase was exacerbating the problem. Also, not good as I had planned on upping the stims this week to attack the last bits of fat.


----------



## Simon m

B|GJOE said:


> Things are looking a bit dire at the moment. The skin on my arms, upper chest, and lower neck is still in a pretty bad way. It's not severely itching or irrupting any more, but it is very sore and red, and causing a massive fluid retention problem in the chest and arms to the point that all definition has gone. Due to the worry so close to a show, I am also holding fluid everywhere else, and have ankles like a pregnant woman's. Still 19 days to go, so hopefully it will clear soon. I've also had to stop taking stims, as the body temperature increase was exacerbating the problem. Also, not good as I had planned on upping the stims this week to attack the last bits of fat.


 Buy some sudocrem from boots - it works wonders and use for a few days just before bed


----------



## B-GJOE

Simon m said:


> Buy some sudocrem from boots - it works wonders and use for a few days just before bed


Did that, and both times I used it inflamed it, I finding that when I use nothing it settles better, as soon as I put anything on it, it gets worse. Strange but true.


----------



## Simon m

B|GJOE said:


> Did that, and both times I used it inflamed it, I finding that when I use nothing it settles better, as soon as I put anything on it, it gets worse. Strange but true.


bugger.

I also bath with tea tree oil as that can help


----------



## stevens

some differance there.you know your stuff thats for sure:thumbup1:


----------



## B-GJOE

The skin is settling down a bit now, but still some fluid retention in the areas that were effective. On a more positive note, I've lost another 2 and a half lbs this week, totalling 13lbs in 4 weeks, pulled it around, and back on track, without panic now.


----------



## defdaz

Bloody hell that skin rash sounded nasty! Have you been to see a dermatologist or anything? Glad it's settling down a bit though...

And the diet is working a treat by the sounds of it, you battled your way through that tricky period through bloody minded determination and discipline by the sounds of it., awesome! :thumb:

So you're about 205 now Joe? 4 weeks to go?


----------



## Taylor01

So your 2.5lbs down this week, without taking into account the extra fluid your holding on chest and arms?

good effort


----------



## B-GJOE

Just 2 weeks and 2 days to go, but I'm not worried at all now, should hit the Anglia in pretty good shape, then hit the lincs and peterborough peeled. Currently enjoying my last proper carb up until show week. I'll get some photo's tomorrow providing I'm not carb bloated, so I can show what I've managed to achieve in 3 weeks since last photo's.


----------



## stl

"Will I make the stage this year????"

You can remove this now mate :thumbup1:

Will be interesting to see your pics!


----------



## Taylor01

I'm at work sunday if you want pics doing


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> I'm at work sunday if you want pics doing


Cheers Bud!


----------



## defdaz

Fantastic mate, bloody brilliant to hear you in such good spirits! Going natty this year must have been a challenge but you've done this business Joe. :thumb:


----------



## Taylor01

Stick the new pics up then fatty, we didn't take em just to boost your ego. lol


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> Stick the new pics up then fatty, we didn't take em just to boost your ego. lol


I'll do that in a mo, I'm busy working out what music to pose to, then I've got to do the routine. Man! I always leave these things until late!


----------



## B-GJOE

Fcuking Hell Taylor01, you're photography leads a lot to be desired.

Excuses!

Morning after a filthy carb up

Taylor01 is sh!t with a camera

The lighting in the Gym is shocking!!!!

I spent the previous day in the sun, so got water retention!

Still got the skin problem on upper chest and arms, so inflamation causing blurring of definition.

Anyway here goes!


----------



## andy51086

looks good to me mate, you will get there in the end


----------



## B-GJOE

andy51086 said:


> looks good to me mate, you will get there in the end


Yeah! Only 13 days, but I'm sure most of it is water. Skin fold pretty good. And I'm planning on knocking 4lbs off this week, and probably another 2 between Saturday and Tuesday next week.


----------



## andy51086

good luck with it

are you glad to be nearly finished doing the diet and cardio or has it got to the point that you actually enjoy doing it?


----------



## B-GJOE

andy51086 said:


> good luck with it
> 
> are you glad to be nearly finished doing the diet and cardio or has it got to the point that you actually enjoy doing it?


I'm not anywhere near done yet. Got 2 more shows after the first one, and I plan on showing off my Kidneys in the second 2. So day after show, I'll be back in the Gym doing a leg day and cardio, and on and on it goes. But looking forward to 04 July when it's all over!


----------



## andy51086

you dont do things by half do you lol


----------



## B-GJOE

bulkaholic said:


> Joe looking good mate especially if thatd day after carb up:thumbup1:
> 
> it's all coming through and no doubt you will be there. dont underestimate how much water sunburn can hold as i have found out:lol:


Yeah, and what a carb up it was.

Finished Depletion

Had

50g Whey, 40g Malto, 40g Corn Starch X 3

An Oh Yeah Bar

CNP Flapjack

A slab of Coffee Cake

Half a bag of Toffee Popcorn

A bag of caramel rice cakes

3 Protein only shakes

A whole box of Belvita breakfast biscuits

About 300g of frosties and Cocoa Stars mixed together

Double Cheeseburger and Chips

20 Jaffa Cakes

2 Bounty Bars

4 Mr kipling Oatylicous slices

A bag of 4 Sainsburys chocolate cookies.

Well it was last full carb up until show carb up.


----------



## andy51086

you fat cnut lol


----------



## B-GJOE

andy51086 said:


> you fat cnut lol


 :tongue:


----------



## Taylor01

not my pics buddy, george took those ones. on the day you said mine were sh1te so i didn't bother sending them.

apology accepted. lol


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> not my pics buddy, george took those ones. on the day you said mine were sh1te so i didn't bother sending them.
> 
> apology accepted. lol


----------



## andy51086

any change in weight today joe?


----------



## FATBOY

big improments jo you have come in loads as you say this is your first show of the year you can only get better


----------



## B-GJOE

andy51086 said:


> any change in weight today joe?


Having a good week mate. I'll publish weight loss friday when I have my official friday AM weigh in, but I can tell you now that 3lb is the minimum I will be reporting!

I am certainly knackered! Just woke up after falling asleep for 3 hours. And I've had 25mg Yohimbine, and 190mg Ephedrine, and 600mg Caffeine today, not counting the 5 mugs of black coffee.


----------



## B-GJOE

FATBOY said:


> big improments jo you have come in loads as you say this is your first show of the year you can only get better


As above mate, if I continue at the rate I am, the next 7 days until pre show carb up begins, will be the biggest changes I've made in the shortest period since diet began.


----------



## defdaz

B|GJOE said:


> As above mate, if I continue at the rate I am, the next 7 days until pre show carb up begins, will be the biggest changes I've made in the shortest period since diet began.


Awesome! What do you thinks caused this mate?


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Awesome! What do you thinks caused this mate?


Very low calories during Keto phase, and big nasty carb ups.


----------



## andy51086

B|GJOE said:


> Very low calories during Keto phase, and big nasty carb ups.


Could be the way forward joe:thumb:


----------



## stl

How low Joe?


----------



## B-GJOE

1700-1800 Cal @ 205-210lbs


----------



## stl

> 1700-1800 Cal @ 205-210lbs


Thanks - are you still maintaining your Protein @ 1g per lb at those levels?


----------



## B-GJOE

stl said:


> Thanks - are you still maintaining your Protein @ 1g per lb at those levels?


Probably a tiny bit over, 190g


----------



## stevens

we need pics:clap:


----------



## B-GJOE

There some pics on the thread, but here they are side by side.


----------



## defdaz

Awesome Joe, I love how the transformation actually accelerates through the weeks :thumbs: Can't wait to see how you get on at your comps, good luck mate.


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Awesome Joe, I love how the transformation actually accelerates through the weeks :thumbs: Can't wait to see how you get on at your comps, good luck mate.


Yeah, strange. Most people go well at start then struggle. I struggle at start then accelerate.

Remember, this was a 16 week diet, so the 10 week pic i was already 6 weeks in


----------



## stevens

awesome transformation there:thumbup1:


----------



## B-GJOE

official Friday am weigh in and another 3.5lbs off. 201.5lbs now. very depleted!

no big refeed this weekend, just a pizza and cookies late Saturday night to get me through my last leg work out Sunday morning.

typing 1 handed atm slashed thumb open on glass last night :-(


----------



## defdaz

Ouch, god I feel a bit queesy now! Hope it's not too bad Joe?!

Well done - you said you'd lose that much you clever b*stard!  :thumb: Enjoy the pizza... ghet! :lol:


----------



## andy51086

good work on the loss this week mate :thumb:

you can definately see the progress that you have made in the side by side pics


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Ouch, god I feel a bit queesy now! Hope it's not too bad Joe?!
> 
> Well done - you said you'd lose that much you clever b*stard!  :thumb: Enjoy the pizza... ghet! :lol:


I bet I can loose another 3 to 4 between today and wednesday morning. Then carb up starts Wednesday PM.


----------



## Lois_Lane

Wow thats a muscletech transformation right there!


----------



## B-GJOE

Lois_Lane said:


> Wow thats a muscletech transformation right there!


Yeah, not bad for an 8 week transformation, even if I say so myself. Look even better now. Hence the avvy ' I can Diet Miracles ' just a shame it takes me about 8 weeks of cardio and diet for my body to take notice, and start shedding fat. On the 10 weeks out picture I was already 6 weeks into diet, shocking isn't it?


----------



## B-GJOE

Well now into the last week before battle in thongs.

Weight this morning is down to 200 dead. But is probably much higher now, due to high water intake and sodium load.

Starting to retain quite a bit of water, and looking and feeling extremely flat.

Just got back from a depletion workout and 45 minutes of cardio. Couldn't get a pump at all during weights, and was hard going as there is not a lot of glycogen around.

Skin problem is on its way out now, should be all OK by Weekend, most likely earlier. For those of you interested in the skin issue

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/100047-aspartame-warning.html

I've got 2 cardio sessions left, tonight and tomorrow morning. 2 Depletions, Tue and Wed Evening.

Fairly confident if things go according to plan, bodyfat is pretty much where I want it to be. Probably not as low as last year at the Lincs, but fairly close. Not too worried about this as I have 2 more shows to do after the Anglian on Sunday. If carb up and dry out is successfull I certainly won't look out of place on stage. Just hope the legs come out to play, when cardio is over. As for glutes, again this will be a weak point by comparison to rest of body. Fcuk knows how low I'll have to go to get ripped glutes.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/shows-pros-inspiration/96033-who-here-has-ever-achived-straited-glutes.html?highlight=ripped+glutes


----------



## andy51086

glad to hear that your skin condition is sorted mate, cant be going on stage in a thong looking like that :lol:

good luck on the shows too mate :thumbup1:


----------



## B-GJOE

Well I said that I would loose a couple more lbs by Wednesday. This morning weighed 3lbs lighter than Friday AM. Now dropped below to 200lbs mark @ 198.5lbs. So that's over 20lbs in 5 weeks.

Well and truly depleted now. Last workout this evening. I'm off work at the moment, and supposed to be working out a posing routine, but stuck in a procrastinating rut. Can't even be bothered to tidy up and wash up my pots.

Time to relax now, and hope the the legs come on board now they have finished cardio and training since yesterday morning. Legs are a bitch, because you never know exactly how they will look until show day. The rest doesn't change that much, just a little tightening here and there.

Might as well live on the toilet at the moment, because its pee pee every bleeding half hour.


----------



## hilly

haha i no that feeling mate, you have made cracking progress recently and im sure u will do great this weekend.

whats the carb up plan


----------



## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> haha i no that feeling mate, you have made cracking progress recently and im sure u will do great this weekend.
> 
> whats the carb up plan


Carb up as follows. And starts in within next 2 hours. Yipeee

*Water:*

8ltrs minimum per day, have been since Saturday just past.

Friday switch to Evian Brand 8ltrs

Saturday 4ltrs of Isklar Water (less sodium than evian even). Stop drinking 3-4pm

*Vitamin C:*

10000mg Per Day, will stop when water stops.

*Sodium:*

Roughly 8000mg to 10000mg per day, started Sunday.

No sodium as from Friday

*Carbs:*

Wednesday

Tonight after last depletion; 37.5g in Glucose & 37.5g in Malto

Before Bed; same as above

Total 150g Carbs

Thursday

First 3 Meals; 25g in Glucose & 25g in Malto

Last 3 Meals; 250g Sweet Potato (50g Carbs per Meal)

Total 300g Carbs

Friday

All 6 Meals; 250g Sweet Potato (300g total for day)

Total 300g Carbs

Saturday

3 Meals; 250g Sweet Potato each meal (150g Total carbs)

Before Bed ****load on pizza, cookies, flapjacks.

Kre-Alkovol with extra glycerol

*Total carbs on carb up 1500g*

Sunday morning, hope for the best.

Kre-Alkovol with extra glycerol

Same again 30 mins before stage.

Will munch away throughout day depending on how things look.


----------



## B-GJOE

Fed up of drinking, pi55ing, drinking pi55ing at the moment


----------



## hilly

sounds like a good plan, something i wish i had done myself as my body seems to respond better to a ****load if im honest


----------



## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> sounds like a good plan, something i wish i had done myself as my body seems to respond better to a ****load if im honest


Well I figured I would give it a go. As I have got 2 more shows 4 weeks after this weekend, thought I would try and experiment. Last year the day after the Lincs show and after eating sugars, and rice cakes all day, followed by 3 large plates of chinese I was fuller, more vascular, drier next day.


----------



## B-GJOE

Woke up this morning and weighed in at 197.5lbs that's lb down since yesterday, which did surprise me as I am sodium loading, and had about 200g of carbs yesterday evening after depletion.

I managed to have a lay in this morning, which is good, haven't had one of them for a while.

No stims to stop me kipping now! Sleep sleep sleep :thumb:

Just got 1 goal today, and that's the posing routine to sort.


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> Well I figured I would give it a go. As I have got 2 more shows 4 weeks after this weekend, thought I would try and experiment. Last year the day after the Lincs show and after eating sugars, and rice cakes all day, followed by 3 large plates of chinese I was fuller, more vascular, drier next day.


Does this mean we can stop for buffet chinese in Kings Lynn on the way? :whistling:


----------



## B-GJOE

Depends how I look on Sunday. I'd be taking a risk, but I think i've got more room I will.


----------



## defdaz

Still dropping weight like shlt off a shovel even when you're trying not too now!!! :lol:

Good luck at the weekend Joe, enjoy it and you've done amazing considering the lack of AAS's or test this year. :thumb:


----------



## B-GJOE

Don't think I will be down tomorrow, i've slammed in 300g unscheduled carbs today. Think I needed them, been depleted for longer than most, as I only had 1 carb meal at the weekend (a big one though), so all in all it was 1 carb meal in 11 days.


----------



## B-GJOE

Sodium load complete!

1st day of carb up complete!

Feel a lot fuller, but holding a lot of water. Up 7lbs since this morning, on just 600g of carbs today. So I expect to be up a couple of times at least tonight for a p1ss.

Tomorrow will be much lower on carbs, half that amount, or less if I feel that I am bloating.

I think I am going to miss the salt and gravy on my chicken and sweet potato. Just sweet potato and chicken and low sodium water. I expect that a lot of water will go tomorrow. (well I hope it does)

I really want to come in full, unlike last year where I was a bit flat.


----------



## defdaz

7 pounds, that's more like it!!


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> 7 pounds, that's more like it!!


Actually mate, I hadn't drank my quota for the day, so when I actually hit the pillow I was 10lbs up for the day. Very watery, and bloated though.

Had a crap nights sleep, up a total 5 times including first pee this morning.

Net gain 3.5lbs (Yep, I peed 6.5lbs in 7 hours). Condition is about the same as yesterday, vascularity up, and fullness up.

With sodium out, and low sodium water, will hopefully start the flush today, so better condition in the morning.

I think I will achieve my goal laid out on first post of thread, to hit stage at 200lb full and dry.


----------



## defdaz

Good luck today Joe!!


----------



## fat-2-thi-2-mus

good luck today joe... on day three of your diet and things and looking and feeling good... let us all know how you get on :thumb:


----------



## hilly

good lucki pal


----------



## nothing2fear

Best of luck today pal


----------



## Jacko89

Good luck mate! Bit late but its here 

awaiting results


----------



## B-GJOE

Thanks guys for well wishes.

Was a tough class today, only managed 6 out 7. Some would argue should've been 5th, but at the end of the day, my best weapon against the bigger guys is my condition, and it just wasn't quite there today.

Didn't look out of place.

So it's back to the gym tomorrow to make sure that the next 2 shows in 4 weeks time, produce a better result.

Need to rehydrate now.


----------



## Lois_Lane

Oh well, major respect for doing more than 1 show i couldn't do that! Good luck.


----------



## Taylor01

I'll chuck a load of pics on facebook this afternoon and you can rob em to put on here if you like.

I would do it but i'm a complete technophobe and wouldn't know where to start


----------



## defdaz

Well done Joe, shame you didn't place higher but it was just a warm-up (some warm-up!) and another four weeks is going to see you peeled!!


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Well done Joe, shame you didn't place higher but it was just a warm-up (some warm-up!) and another four weeks is going to see you peeled!!


That's the plan. LOL

Was back in the Gym today, did a leg session and an hour of cardio. Leg session was real tough going, just 1 day after a show. But there's no stopping me, I've got a job to do.


----------



## B-GJOE

Here is the best shot of the day


----------



## UKWolverine

B|GJOE said:


> Here is the best shot of the day


Bloody awesome mate. Aesthetically this is what I aspire too, but will never get there as don't have the commitment to compete.

Good luck with the other competitions


----------



## stl

Looking good Joe - onwards and upwards!!


----------



## Taylor01

It's mad how a badly timed pic of rear double bi turned out fookin awesome.

God i'm an awesome accidental photographer


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> It's mad how a badly timed pic of rear double bi turned out fookin awesome.
> 
> God i'm an awesome accidental photographer


lol:thumb:


----------



## Lois_Lane

Looks very good


----------



## B-GJOE

bulkaholic said:


> Looks good there Joe:thumbup1:
> 
> There isn't much to come off at all by the look of you so good luck for the next show mate should look awesome


Thanks mate.

Should be sorted for next 2 shows. There is some to come off, just didn't have the sharpness I should've had.

Wasting no time. Back in Gym yesterday, and did legs and an hour cardio. Today did my push routine, and an hour cardio, and just about to do another hour cardio. If I don't hit my best for next shows, I'll be letting myself down. So onwards and upwards.


----------



## Taylor01

There will be an updated version of that pic up in 4 weeks, with kidneys showing.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guarantee this, so you'd best not make me look a cvnt. lol


----------



## andy51086

looks good joe well done on the results mate, better than most could achieve


----------



## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> There will be an updated version of that pic up in 4 weeks, with kidneys showing.
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb and guarantee this, so you'd best not make me look a cvnt. lol


You like to put the pressure on mate. Your treat on the Pizza Hut if kidneys are visible at next shows then????


----------



## B-GJOE

andy51086 said:


> looks good joe well done on the results mate, better than most could achieve


It was the best picture taken, the rest aint much to shout about. Currently working my ass off for next shows. It's not easy being back in the gym in full contest prep the day after a show. :whistling:


----------



## defdaz

Respect to you Joe, you put the rest of to shame with your work ethic mate.


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> You like to put the pressure on mate. Your treat on the Pizza Hut if kidneys are visible at next shows then????


Well there just so happens to be a Pizza Hut in Peterboghorror, so deal.

lol


----------



## Taylor01

PUSSY


----------



## B-GJOE

10 Cookies

90g Dextrose

90g Corn Starch

90g Maltodextrin

36 Jaffa Cakes

4 Crumpets

700g Oats & More Breakfast Cereal

4 Oaty Bites

3 French Fancies

1 Whole Packet of Hob Nobs

That should just about do it for this week's carb up!!


----------



## Lois_Lane

Your carb up includes fat then? Or do things like jaffa cakes not have any fat in them? Hobnobs surely do...


----------



## B-GJOE

Lois_Lane said:


> Your carb up includes fat then? Or do things like jaffa cakes not have any fat in them? Hobnobs surely do...


Jaffa Cakes are 1g per cake. Hobnobs were reduced fat, but i've not really been too bothered about fat since reducing the carb up time. I've found that slamming in as much as possible over 8-12 hours followed by sub 2000 calorie keto gives me the best results. Took some experimenting during this diet to find the best keto and carb up combination, and now I've found it. Crazy really, that very low calories and stupid dirty carb ups work much much better than clean low fat carb ups and moderate calorie defecit.


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## Lois_Lane

B|GJOE said:


> Jaffa Cakes are 1g per cake. Hobnobs were reduced fat, but i've not really been too bothered about fat since reducing the carb up time. I've found that slamming in as much as possible over 8-12 hours followed by sub 2000 calorie keto gives me the best results. Took some experimenting during this diet to find the best keto and carb up combination, and now I've found it. Crazy really, that very low calories and stupid dirty carb ups work much much better than clean low fat carb ups and moderate calorie defecit.


Very interesting mate. This has been a great log thus far i always pop in and read your updates:thumbup1:


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## defdaz

Holy sh*t mate that's bonkers LMAO! Love it 

How are you progressing mate, two weeks till the next comp isn't it?


----------



## defdaz

Wait a minute, only 3 french fancies?!! You'll leave the other 5? Do you only like the pink ones or something?!


----------



## B-GJOE

defdaz said:


> Wait a minute, only 3 french fancies?!! You'll leave the other 5? Do you only like the pink ones or something?!


They were the kids, and there was only 3 left.

Condition has improved satisfactorily since last show. As long as depletion, and carb up go well, should be showing something significantly better than the last show.


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## Taylor01

You lying fat cnut, you won't come in peeled, on purpose because you know i'll embarrass you at Pizza Hut this time around


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## B-GJOE

Taylor01 said:


> You lying fat cnut, you won't come in peeled, on purpose because you know i'll embarrass you at Pizza Hut this time around


You got me!!!

PMSL


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## tonyc74

B|GJOE said:


> Jaffa Cakes are 1g per cake. Hobnobs were reduced fat, but i've not really been too bothered about fat since reducing the carb up time. I've found that slamming in as much as possible over 8-12 hours followed by sub 2000 calorie keto gives me the best results. Took some experimenting during this diet to find the best keto and carb up combination, and now I've found it. Crazy really, that very low calories and stupid dirty carb ups work much much better than clean low fat carb ups and moderate calorie defecit.


Just a quickie Joe if thats ok....so are you running at below the recommended cals all week? or just the day after the carb up?

and reducing the carb up from 24-30 hrs to 8-10 are you counting the carbs and fats or just munching as much as possible?

Just trying to get an idea of what may work better for me.....

Cheers


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## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> Just a quickie Joe if thats ok....so are you running at below the recommended cals all week? or just the day after the carb up?
> 
> and reducing the carb up from 24-30 hrs to 8-10 are you counting the carbs and fats or just munching as much as possible?
> 
> Just trying to get an idea of what may work better for me.....
> 
> Cheers


Its low cals all week, for 6 whole days. Trust me, you'll be ready for stuffing your face when yo uget to carb up. Usually around 1750 to 1900 cals per day.


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## defdaz

Week and a bit to go Joe, how's things going?


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## tonyc74

B|GJOE said:


> Its low cals all week, for 6 whole days. Trust me, you'll be ready for stuffing your face when yo uget to carb up. Usually around 1750 to 1900 cals per day.


I bet you are im on 2000 atm...thats 500 below maintainence...could probably drop some fat i guess, cant wait until Sat night when i start carbing up


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## roberts1974

just a week to go now mate hows, prep hope all is going to plan.

good luck joe :thumb:


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## B-GJOE

I think things are going to plan, hard to tell when you are flat, depleted and hungry. Been a week since last carb up. No carb up this weekend, just a cheat meal this evening which should see me through legs tomorrow morning. Definitely sharper than the Yarmouth show right now, and even heavier. Been a good 3 weeks since that show.


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## defdaz

Awesome. Glad it's going well mate. :thumb:


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## B-GJOE

Things are coming together now. Legs are coming out, everything is tightening up. 1 depletion to go before carb up. My synopsis today, is that if my carb up goes to plan, with no spill over, and I dry out as planned, I'll be happy regardless of show results.


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## tonyc74

Going to be intestesting to see the difference in the new pics!

Joe, do you mind posting your depletion work out, couldnt seem to find it in the journal?

Im actually starting to enjoy being on Keto now seems to be easier than being on low carb for me!

Thanks

Tony


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## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> Going to be intestesting to see the difference in the new pics!
> 
> Joe, do you mind posting your depletion work out, couldnt seem to find it in the journal?
> 
> Im actually starting to enjoy being on Keto now seems to be easier than being on low carb for me!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tony


You must've read my mind, as I've just logged on to post up the final depletion workout that I just did.

This was an excessive one, but this is what I just did.

92 Sets in 75 minutes. Circuit fashion, not resting between sets, 30-45 seconds rest between circuits. Each set between 8 and 15 reps depending on how fcuked the muscle was at the time.

Circuit 1:

1. Lat pull down

2. Shoulder Press

3. Upright Row

4. Cable Cross Over

5. Alternate Dumbbell curls

6. Single arm tricep extension (both arms obviously)

7. Dead lift

8. Sit ups

Did the above 10 times. 80 Sets.

Circuit 2:

1. Bent Over Rows

2. Bench Press

3. Dead Lift

Did the above 4 times. 12 Sets

Total 92 Sets.

Not bad 72 hours away from stage!!!

Let cab up begin

Obviously on a normal depletion on fridays I would put in a set for quads, calves, and hams. But no legs before a show.

Right here is the carb up plan..

*Wednesday	*

Time........Food...........................................................Total Carbs

14:00.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

15:30.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

17:00.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

18:30.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

20:00.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

21:30.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

23:00.......20.6g Malto/21.2g Dextros/22g Corn Starch.......58.0

...............................................................................*406.8*

Each shake will not be made with normal water, I steeped some cinnamon sticks in boiling water last night and then cooled.

*Thursday	*

Time.........Food............................................Total Carbs

08:00.......232g Mashed Banana.......................53.36

09:00.......232g Mashed Banana.......................53.36

10:00.......232g Mashed Banana.......................53.36

11:00.......232g Mashed Banana.......................53.36

12:00.......232g Mashed Banana.......................53.36

13:00.......232g Mashed Banana.......................53.36

14:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

15:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

16:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

17:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

18:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

19:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

20:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

21:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

..................................................................*780.96*

*Friday*

08:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

09:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

10:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

11:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

12:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

13:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

14:00.......320g Mashed Boiled Sweet Potato......57.6

..................................................................*403.2*

..................................................................*1590.9*

22:00	Steak, Egg and Chips

Fats from Fish Oil

Protein from Chicken Breasts


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## hilly

wow very orgainised my mate, whats the reasoning behind the all liquid on day 1?


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## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> wow very orgainised my mate, whats the reasoning behind the all liquid on day 1?


Simple sugars, and with liquid I don't develop an appetite that I can't control. So this way I can ease into the carb up without going mad!


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## tonyc74

Nice one Joe...thanks didnt do nearly enough sets on my last one so ill make sure i do something similar this weekend...you must have been shagg3d !


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## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> Nice one Joe...thanks didnt do nearly enough sets on my last one so ill make sure i do something similar this weekend...you must have been shagg3d !


Surprisingly I felt pretty good. Could've done some more, but I did psych myself up for it 24 hours in advance.


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## B-GJOE

Carbing up is already a pain in the butt. I just want to lay on my bed and do fcuk all. But I have to keep getting up to eat and drink!


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## roberts1974

good luck joe hope all goes well with all the effort you've put in.


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## B-GJOE

Disaster!!!

Doubled over in pain with stomach cramps, had to induce vomitting. Think I'm having a potassium stomach problem. So can't eat now, hope it passes.


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## hilly

terrible news mate, any idea the cause? hope it clears up for 2moro


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## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> terrible news mate, any idea the cause? hope it clears up for 2moro


Think it was the bananas and the high potassium content.


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## B-GJOE

Now I am starting to think it is proper sickness! Been sick again!


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## B-GJOE

bulkaholic said:


> good luck mate hope it all goes to plan:thumbup1:


The plan is hanging by a thread now mate! I can't eat or drink without throwing up, and my guts are in agony! so much for a fcuking plan!!!


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## spudsy

Fingers crossed it clears up quickly mate, It would be sh1t luck to miss the show after months of hard work... will keep everything crossed for ya


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## Bri

Fingers crossed mate hope it all works out.


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## B-GJOE

It's now 3am Friday morning. Feeling a little better, like i can now move around on my feet instead of all fours. Body is looking flat, but dehydrated, so condition looks OK, but very very horribly flat. Still don't feel up to eating or drinking, and still got stomach cramps.

Must move that bowl of spew from the side of my bed, it stinks. LOL

Going to go back to bed for a couple of hours, and hope I feel well enough when I wake to drink a little of glucose water or something.

Plan has gone to pot, I've had to have some medicine containing sodium to help get over the bug. So may have to now restrict water right through.

I'll just have to play things hour on hour now!


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## Fragjuice

Good luck & hope you feel better later


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## fat-2-thi-2-mus

good luck mate hope it clears


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## B-GJOE

4 Hours later, still got dodgey tummy. But have managed to keep down some glucose water. At this rate I think I have 2 choices, I come in a little flat, or I eat plenty throughout tomorrow morning.


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## defdaz

Maybe stick to glucose drinks / tablets and see how you go mate? Fingers and toes crossed for you!


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## roberts1974

come on joe u can get through this, trust ur judgment grit ur teeth and go for what fills best for u.

good luck mate.


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## Taylor01

roberts1974 said:


> come on joe u can get through this, trust ur judgment grit ur teeth and go for what fills best for u.
> 
> good luck mate.


^^^^^this


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## B-GJOE

Jelly Babies, the cure to all your woes. They have stayed down, obedient little blighters.


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## B-GJOE

Still got a blunt pain in my stomach, but feel much better in myself. Managing to keep down simple carbs, malto/dex/cornstarch mix. My only worry is water, as I have dehydrated accidentally too early, if I drink I may overcompensate and hold it. So being a bit scientific, I am having 2.5g of water to every 1g of carbs, because glycogen holds about 3 x it's weight in water. So in theory, the water will go to glycogen storage inside the cell, not outside. FINGERS CROSSED


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## clarkey

All the best tomorrow Joe :thumbup1: me and a few friends will be there to watch and support our mate in the over 50's.


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## tonyc74

Good luck Joe looking forward to the pics


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## Bri

Do us proud joe mate. :thumb:


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## defdaz

Hope it goes / went well today Joe!


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## roberts1974

hope all went well today mate im sure it did how did ur water carb theory work.


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## B-GJOE

I had to drink some water yesterday afternoon as I was over dehydrated from the sickeness, overspilled a little, and lost a little definition, but was happy enough with fullness today. Nice to meet clarkey at the show who came over and introduced himself. Nice to meet you mate. Cam 2nd, but only 2 in the class photo's to follow very shortly


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## B-GJOE




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## B-GJOE




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## B-GJOE




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## B-GJOE




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## clarkey

Good to meet you today Joe. I had to rush off so missed your class, but looking at the pics you looked very good mate..The friends I was with watched your class and said the same. Well done bud:thumbup1:


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## Murray

Over forty's to look forward to next year old mate!!!

Looking good as always.


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## DEJ

The detail on your back is ace mate! Well done...


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## B-GJOE

Thanks for comments, just woken up and done the worlds biggest diarrhoea crap, so guts still not 100%, so pretty good that I managed to compete yesterday. Got it all to look forward to again today. Looking very much drier today, and slightly heavier at 201lbs. Just need to devise a way to hold this condition for the next 12 hours. OMG, I need a drink!


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## B-GJOE

Murray said:


> Over forty's to look forward to next year old mate!!!
> 
> Looking good as always.


Thanks,

Nice of you to remind me how Old I am getting LOL


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## tonyc74

Looking good Joe, cant believe youve got another one today!!!

Back to normality after this ?


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## defdaz

Well done Joe, looked great despite the stomach problems. I would guess it was a close run thing between the two of you? You had him on arms and legs for sure. Good luck today!


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## Bri

Great job mate should be proud, best of luck for today as well!


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## B-GJOE

Peterborough show 4th, very good line up, pleased with placing, judging was pretty fair. Condition in upper body improved since yesterday, but for some reason lost it in the legs. I think it may have been a little too long in sauna this morning. Photo's to follow shortly, once missus has uploaded them.


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## adamdutton

well done mate must have been a very hard stressful weekend,


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## defdaz

Congrats Joe, well done mate. Looking forward to pics.


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## HTID

well done joe, 4th is nowt to be ashamed ov, a little tighter and harder and you would ov nailed it, well done.


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## B-GJOE




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## B-GJOE




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## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> Looking good Joe, cant believe youve got another one today!!!
> 
> Back to normality after this ?


Kind of, I don't want to get too normal, which is what I did last year, and still have weak points I should've sorted by now. Ie ass and hams. So intend to stay leaner in the off so I haven't got to do so much work and cardio pre-contest. Maybe then I can get BF low enough to sort out this stubborn area of mine.


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## Fragjuice

well done for getting through it despite feeling under the weather :thumbup1:


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## roberts1974

well done joe 4th place nice one especially with the last minute hicups.

you look great in pics mate.


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## B-GJOE

Main focus now is to concentrate on staying in control of diet. I'm determined to have a really good year next year in the Masters NABBA classes. Would love to stand on the Britain Stage and would be made if I placed in it. So the hard work starts now, not 4 months before.


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## MXD

Hey mate i know ur an experienced yohimbine user ansld was wondering.if you could do max dosesay 18 mg multiple times a.day? Going to b running eca then clen and yoh/caf . Unless u reccomend anything different? Thanks


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## B-GJOE

MXD said:


> Hey mate i know ur an experienced yohimbine user ansld was wondering.if you could do max dosesay 18 mg multiple times a.day? Going to b running eca then clen and yoh/caf . Unless u reccomend anything different? Thanks


I find Yohimbine to be best with caffiene first thing in the morning before fasted cardio. Then ECA 5 hours later. Never done multiple Yohimbine at higher doses, only 10mg 3 times a day for a week, when I ran out of ECA. There are articles suggesting that Y with Eph is very bad for blood pressure, and also I've read that they antagonise each other so not good to take together.


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## hilly

good to see you already have goals for the coming year mate. masters in the nabba is a very tough and competitive class. the o40 and o50 in year were some of the best classes up the IMO


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## B-GJOE

THE *BIG *REVEAL:

Right guys, now it's all over I want share with you what my experiment was this year. With all these 'Pro-Hormone' designer steroids around on the market, and the hype, the anecdotes etc etc, I wanted 1 question answering, can they do the job as well as pharma meds????

So my contest prep this year it did it totally OTC!! My total diet was 20 weeks, with 1 show 16 weeks in. First 8 weeks of diet was totally natural, not stims and no PEDS, then last 12 weeks ECA, Yohimbine, Cynostane, 1-T Tren, SDrol. Chose 1-T and Cynostane mainly because they are the only ones you can really take safely for longer periods. I wasn't on all 3 at the same time, I was staggering them. Total Use for 12 Weeks was:

2 Tubes of 1-T Tren

1 and Half Bottles of Cynostane

2 weeks of Sdrol @ 20mg

Conclusions:

Testicular shrinkage very minimal

Loss of sex drive evidence, but then it was a pre-contest diet, so hard to tell if it was the gear. However, no problems with wood, etc, just didn't fancy it

Other side effects, nothing really to report.

As good as pharma, I'd have to say NO! however, they do come close at probably 80% as effective.

I dieted really hard, but didn't quite make the condition I hoping for. Was tempted to switch to real deal, but learning new stuff is more exciting than chasing a trophy, as far as I am concerned. Maybe there were other factors involved in me not nailing condition, mainly the fact that I was much fatter than I though I was at start of diet.

If you want to see what can be achieved, look back at photo's in this journal, particularly look at the ones labelled 10 weeks out, and the most recent ones. This is an example of a 14 week transformation.

Next thing I am going to do is an OTC PCT. I know this controversial but i'm playing human guinea pig. OTC will be

TCF-1

Sustain ALpha

Esto Surpress

Don't intend to take anything for while after PCT. As you know, I only really use for contest prep. However, may do a short bulk late Autumn with Test and Tren, or Test and Deca.

Thanks for following Journal...........


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## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> good to see you already have goals for the coming year mate. masters in the nabba is a very tough and competitive class. the o40 and o50 in year were some of the best classes up the IMO


I have to say, based on the shows I have attended and competed in this year, the general standard 2010 season has been phenomenal right accross the board. Seen some cracking first timer, and novice classes, and these guys will the Misters in the next 12-24 months. Been an exciting year, and inspiring for me. If I knuckle down, and remember that I am a bodybuilder even when in off season, I really believe that I can do well in 2011 season.


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## hilly

interesting you decided to usr the otc supps. Quite a few over on MD rate superdrol very highly but apparantly there are different types and some are much more effective than other.

so regarding your off season will you be using otc or normal hormones.

Also what type of diet approach will you be taking. as i no you like your keto etc will you use a more lower carb and higher fat approach to off season with refeeds or a more balanced approach?


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## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> interesting you decided to usr the otc supps. Quite a few over on MD rate superdrol very highly but apparantly there are different types and some are much more effective than other.
> 
> so regarding your off season will you be using otc or normal hormones.
> 
> Also what type of diet approach will you be taking. as i no you like your keto etc will you use a more lower carb and higher fat approach to off season with refeeds or a more balanced approach?


The OTC thing I've just done, was an experiment. Sometimes you read so much conflicting information, the only way to find it out is to just do it. So this is what I did, simply to satisfy my own curiosity. Won't be using OTC in the future, I know what I need to know now. I may just do 1 cycle before next years prep with pharma grade and pharma PCT. Based on 2009 prep and 2010 prep, I will be choosing test to start pre-comp and change into deca/winni closer to show date. I am a low user anyway, who aims to maximise nutrition and training. I am going to using high fat low carb in the off season, as 1 thing i have learned during the last 2 years is that I get fat very quickly on carbs. I can easily bang on 3 stone plus in a matter of months on high carb, but mostly this is fat. Will be considering something like the anabolic diet which is pretty much a dirty CKD, so lots of cheese, protein and double cream, meats, eggs etc. With pretty much what I like at weekends. This way I shouldn't loose my marbles with constant diet restrictions, and I should stay much leaner than when I switch to carbs. Another carb problem i have is a sweet tooth and being a manager in a chocolate factory. However, when carbs are off menu, i manage very well.


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## hilly

im the same regarding carbs. as long as i keep them around 200-250 im fine if i push them any higher i just get fat and watery so prefer to up pro and fat as much as possible with a nice big cheat later on sat evening.

How long will you give it for pct etc before you start trying to gain weight naturally? will you get bloods done or just give it a set amount of time and go from there


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## B-GJOE

hilly said:


> im the same regarding carbs. as long as i keep them around 200-250 im fine if i push them any higher i just get fat and watery so prefer to up pro and fat as much as possible with a nice big cheat later on sat evening.
> 
> How long will you give it for pct etc before you start trying to gain weight naturally? will you get bloods done or just give it a set amount of time and go from there


To be honest mate, I'm going to be hitting the Gym after a week off, aiming to gain straight away. At the moment don't feel the need for a PCT as much as I have in the past. I'll play it by ear for a few weeks, and report progress on here. But like I said, no testicular shrinkage, or wood problems to be fixed. As long as I keep the Estrogen surpressed I think I'll be fine of the coming weeks. However, if things start to go belly up I will switch to nolva/clomid in the blink of an eye. But got a good feeling that things are going to be great, and back to normal in no time.


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## defdaz

Ah nice!! I used pro hormones last year after coming back from a long lay off. I really rate them, especially h-drol.

You sound really upbeat Joe, really pleased for you and hope you can stay focused this year and do some damage next year in the masters - I'm only a few years behind you! :thumb:


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## B-GJOE

Yeah, I'm pretty upbeat. In fact the thing that bugs me most is that people ask me how I got on and when I tell them my placing their body language almost says they feel sorry for me. That really bugs me. I have a very good weekend, was in pretty good shape, and subject to fair judging. No PROBLEM!

Condition not as good as last year. However, big improvements in back development, overall size symmetry and shape I liked. More of a v taper, and x shape. So all I need to do now is bring the 2 together, by building a good quality 5lbs of dry mass, and then rip my physique to shreds come show time.

Bring on the masters, :thumb:


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## kingy_88

well done joe really pleased for you mate. i must say you have done amazing to say you struggled at the start of the diet and the few problems you have had towards the end.

i just hope one day i can get to a simular condition :thumb:


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## defdaz

He's an absolute legend isn't he kingy_88!! :thumb:


----------



## kingy_88

defdaz said:


> He's an absolute legend isn't he kingy_88!! :thumb:


Bloody fantastically cool :cool2:


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## tonyc74

This is interesting stuff you think 80% against a test cycle or an oral like dbol?

Hope your enjoying the rest for a short while anyway!

ps quick one if thats ok im on keto and cant get my depletion work out in this week as im away for 3 days, do you think its ok to a short carb up anyway at the weekend or maybe just one cheat meal then back on and deplete work out next week?

cheers..


----------



## Galtonator

great stuff Joe well done


----------



## B-GJOE

tonyc74 said:


> This is interesting stuff you think 80% against a test cycle or an oral like dbol?
> 
> Hope your enjoying the rest for a short while anyway!
> 
> ps quick one if thats ok im on keto and cant get my depletion work out in this week as im away for 3 days, do you think its ok to a short carb up anyway at the weekend or maybe just one cheat meal then back on and deplete work out next week?
> 
> cheers..


Agree mate, just do a smaller carb up. The depletion is just insurance that the carbs you eat go to glycogen storage, as depletion allows for super compensation. But if you're not eating a massive amount of carbs, there should be no worries about overspill.


----------



## B-GJOE

I'm 18lbs up on Sunday morning in just 60 hours. Will be pleased to get back to sensible eating next week.


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## defdaz

B|GJOE said:


> I'm 18lbs up on Sunday morning in just 60 hours. Will be pleased to get back to sensible eating next week.


 :thumb: :thumbup1: :lol: :laugh: AWESOME


----------



## Taylor01

B|GJOE said:


> I'm 18lbs up on Sunday morning in just 60 hours. Will be pleased to get back to sensible eating next week.


Fatty


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