# Strength expectations whilst cutting?



## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Just curious as to what are people's strength goals whilst cutting?

Are people happy to maintain current strength/volume, or do you still push hard for progressive overload?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I reduce volume with the goal being to maintain muscle rather than to attempt to provide an overload stimulus. If you were anywhere close to the maximum volume you could recover from at the end of a gaining phase then it simply won't be possible to keep doing the same in a deficit without ending up overtraining.

I reduce volume by reducing number of sets but keep the weight the same.

(I'm writing from a bodybuilding rather than strength athlete perspective here.)


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

I've been trying to maintain strength/volume, but must admit that I'm struggling to fully recover.

I will look to lower sets/volume and see how I get on (do you reduce sets on all exercises?)

Are you happy keeping the weight the same, or do you still try to push heavier?

I'm more focused towards bodybuilding/hypertrophy than strength!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I will look to lower sets/volume and see how I get on (do you reduce sets on all exercises?)


 Yes. Well, all exercises that I was overloading on anyway. (On my last training block I was just aiming to maintain RDL strength whilst focusing more on squats so I've kept RDL volume the same.)



> Are you happy keeping the weight the same, or do you still try to push heavier?


 I keep the weight the same (as I mentioned above).

For info. my approach is as suggested by Mike Israetel and Lyle McDonald, but I also think it makes logical sense.


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Thanks for the advice, I've just had a quick read of the Lyle McDonald stuff, it makes sense on how to maintain!

Think I've been pushing myself too hard whilst cutting, still trying for progressive overload/volume too high, and therefore never fully recovering!

How much do you drop your volume, how many sets do you drop?

Lyle McDonald suggests you could drop up to 2/3 of your previous volume?

I was maybe thinking of dropping just one set from each exercise as a starting point?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobby's Nuts said:


> Thanks for the advice, I've just had a quick read of the Lyle McDonald stuff, it makes sense on how to maintain!
> 
> Think I've been pushing myself too hard whilst cutting, still trying for progressive overload/volume too high, and therefore never fully recovering!
> 
> ...


 From memory Lyle talks about a mix of reduced volume and frequency?

I now base my training around Mike Israetel's ideas of volume and volume periodisation. There's lots of good interviews with him on YouTube but the following sumarises the main points:

https://renaissanceperiodization.com/training-volume-landmarks-muscle-growth/

The relevant parameter for cutting is the maintenance volume. If you search for Mike's name and a muscle you'll find pages like this that give you guide values for MV but this will obviously vary between individuals.

https://renaissanceperiodization.com/training-volume-landmarks-muscle-growth/

I'm still learning what works best for me in this approach but to give you an example over my last training block I went from 12 to 20 sets per week For chest, split across two workouts (so 6 sets each initially rising to 10 each over 5 weeks). Now I'm cutting I'm doing 4 sets per workout (same frequency). Again, not saying this is 'right' for me let alone anyone else but it's what I'm trying.

This is a subject that never seems to get discussed much. I expect most people keep trying to train as before.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

As Ultrasonic says you need to reduce volume. You can't expect to put less fuel in the tank and still travel the same distance.

You can reduce volume by cutting sets/exercises in a workout or by adding in extra rest days, whichever suits your purpose best. Train to maintain strength levels on the majority of exercises whilst maybe progressing slightly with one or two. I'm cutting atm and still progressing my Bench and Pin Presses whilst maintaining the other exercises.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

indeed, need to reduce volume and or rest days but I think keeping more frequency and less volume is better than more volume and less frequency


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> From memory Lyle talks about a mix of reduced volume and frequency?
> 
> I now base my training around Mike Israetel's ideas of volume and volume periodisation. There's lots of good interviews with him on YouTube but the following sumarises the main points:
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the links, I will have a good read!



> I'm still learning what works best for me in this approach but to give you an example over my last training block I went from 12 to 20 sets per week For chest, split across two workouts (so 6 sets each initially rising to 10 each over 5 weeks). Now I'm cutting I'm doing 4 sets per workout (same frequency). Again, not saying this is 'right' for me let alone anyone else but it's what I'm trying.
> 
> This is a subject that never seems to get discussed much. I expect most people keep trying to train as before.


 Yes it seems it's a subject that doesn't get discussed much, all discussions around training seem to focus/presume you are on a gaining phase.

I've definitely been pushing too hard whilst cutting, which has lead to recovery/adherence problems, thanks for the advice, plenty of food for thought!


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm cutting at the mo and lost a few reps here and there whist some lifts have improved, just need to ride the storm until surplus time


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

How does everyone approach deload weeks whilst cutting, I was previously doing a deload every 4th week whilst bulking, I found this worked well for recovery.

Just seeing if everyone still actually does deloads during a cut?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobby's Nuts said:


> How does everyone approach deload weeks whilst cutting, I was previously doing a deload every 4th week whilst bulking, I found this worked well for recovery.
> 
> Just seeing if everyone still actually does deloads during a cut?


 I never deload when cutting. If you've reduced the volume as above then there is no need.

On a long cut you could consider a couple of weeks as a diet break at maintenance calories, but I wouldn't change the training.

(A deload every 4th week when bulking sounds a bit too frequent to me.)


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> (A deload every 4th week when bulking sounds a bit too frequent to me.)


 I have been using the Linear Periodization methods from RippedBody.com










How do you approach deloads whilst bulking, I'm interested in different approaches?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobby's Nuts said:


> I have been using the Linear Periodization methods from RippedBody.com
> 
> 
> 
> How do you approach deloads whilst bulking, I'm interested in different approaches?


 My current approach is the weight and set based periodisation I mentioned above, where I've ramped sets up over a 5 week block, then had a week at maintenance volume and calories, and then repeated.

My training is less strength focused than what you're currently doing BTW, hence the much higher set numbers I've mentioned.


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Thanks for the reply, I'm going to look into Renaissance Periodization type training, I'm more interested in Hypertrophy than Strength!

Do you have any experience/thoughts on the Templates from the site:-

Male Physique Training Template

PL Hypertrophy Training Template


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobby's Nuts said:


> Thanks for the reply, I'm going to look into Renaissance Periodization type training, I'm more interested in Hypertrophy than Strength!
> 
> Do you have any experience/thoughts on the Templates from the site:-
> 
> ...


 I have no experience but my main thought is you don't need to be paying for anything. The basic ideas of the approach are freely available.


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I have no experience but my main thought is you don't need to be paying for anything. The basic ideas of the approach are freely available.


 Yes totally agree shouldn't be paying for anything as all information is freely available, (I actually love reading/learning, I find it very relaxing).

Problem I have is that I'm currently working over 60 hours a week and have a baby due in 6 weeks, so time is something that I really struggle with.

I have started training at 5:30am (after you suggested a while back), which tbh I never thought would work as I've never been a morning person, but it's actually working great, really sets you up for the day!

Would love to hear from anyone who thinks the Templates are a good starting point, would they save a lot of hours worth of reading (I'm not lazy, just don't have much spare time, although I wish I had!)


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobby's Nuts said:


> Yes totally agree shouldn't be paying for anything as all information is freely available, (I actually love reading/learning, I find it very relaxing).
> 
> Problem I have is that I'm currently working over 60 hours a week and have a baby due in 6 weeks, so time is something that I really struggle with.
> 
> ...


 Glad you like the morning workouts  .

A major point of the templates is, IIRC, that they are dynamic. So that what you do in the next session is based on what happened in the one before. I suspect they're decent if money is no object, but I'd be Googling for reviews before shelling out.

*BUT *the fact you are about to have your first child makes me think now really isn't the best time to be thinking of embarking on a new and more demanding training routine. You will very likely struggle to simply maintain previous progress once the baby has arrived let alone make progress.

Edit: actually, maybe it's not your first child? If not you obviously have a better idea what to expect.


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Glad you like the morning workouts  .


 Yes absolutely love training in the morning now, (I'm still not a morning person), but feel great after the workout (and a few coffees), and I prep all my food for the day during my rests, so it works very well!



> A major point of the templates is, IIRC, that they are dynamic. So that what you do in the next session is based on what happened in the one before. I suspect they're decent if money is no object, but I'd be Googling for reviews before shelling out.


 I do have a bit of spare money, but will make sure I read plenty of reviews before purchasing!



> *BUT *the fact you are about to have your first child makes me think now really isn't the best time to be thinking of embarking on a new and more demanding training routine. You will very likely struggle to simply maintain previous progress once the baby has arrived let alone make progress.
> 
> Edit: actually, maybe it's not your first child? If not you obviously have a better idea what to expect.


 You make a very valid point, maybe now might not be the best time to be focusing on something new, it is our first baby so not 100% sure what to expect (don't think anything can fully prepare you!), you got any good tips haha?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Tips? Enjoy your sleep/freedom while you still can!


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## Bobby's Nuts (Oct 7, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Tips? Enjoy your sleep/freedom while you still can!


 Haha yes that's what everyone has been saying, life is certainly about to change (in a good way, well maybe not for my sixpack!)


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