# HEAVY VS HIGH REPS



## THE COLONEL

*HEAVY VS HIGH REPS*​
HEAVY BELOW 8 REPS33266.14%HIGH REPS BETWEEN 8-2017033.86%


----------



## THE COLONEL

Which is best for putting lean muscle on? I know everyones different but would just like to know which is most popular?


----------



## Rickski

It is body part specific, low reps as a rule but Calves and Delts spring to mind for high reps.


----------



## GHS

As above it differs between person to person and also which body part your training.......

IMO for most muscle groups its between 8 and 12 heavy reps.........

But for things like calves I go up to 15-20 reps and abs I go as high as 30ish............

GHS


----------



## Louis_C

on an average i'd do anything between 6 and 12, but depends on what im doing.... heavy benching ill do anything from 1-6, but i tend to pyramid my sets on different excersies too


----------



## anabolic ant

as GHS says,everybody is different by DNA,so what may work for one,may differ totally for the next person!!!

but a general consensus is...that higher reps will cause more hypertrophy to the muscle and more dense tissue...above 8,9,10 or higher!!!

low reps (i cant really define this,but,i'd say lower than a king and you have a chance to go for the car,sorry)6-5 and lower i guess...explosive style,fast but few,will cause strength gain,with little or no hypertrophy!!!

also different types of tissue,need different amounts of load,force,power,reps etc...lots to take into account,but in general higher reps will cause more solidity!!

there is a thread which tatyana posted on here...if i can dig it out...i'll post it...very very good explanation of what and reps,strength,hypertrophy is al about,in laymans terms with good scientific back up!!!!


----------



## Magic Torch

As long as you work the muscle to failure then I guess it doesn't really matter does it?


----------



## MasterBlaster

GHS said:


> As above it differs between person to person and also which body part your training.......
> 
> IMO for most muscle groups its between 8 and 12 heavy reps.........
> 
> But for things like calves I go up to 15-20 reps and abs I go as high as 30ish............
> 
> GHS


He's right here. And he says he doesn't bring anything to the board but gay jokes... :lol:

When I do arms and chest I do 3 sets of 10 but when I do multi belly muscles like calves and Abs i work till failure. usually 30-40 reps


----------



## ParaManiac

I prefer to stay within the 12 -8 range,whatever my aim,occasionally throwing in giant/super/drop sets for variety/shock etc.

However don't forget diet is the major contributor to your goals.


----------



## jw007

High reps are for girls

END OF


----------



## Goose

I dont see the point in doing high reps with calves? There used to walking around all the time so they are used to high volume already which is why I hit them with heavy sets around 4-8reps max with some drop sets. Really helps the growth.


----------



## Jimmy1

it all works

mix it up from week to week


----------



## Guest

anabolic ant said:


> that higher reps will cause more hypertrophy to the muscle and more dense tissue!!!


 Not sure i agree with dense muscle being built with higher reps but for general growth higher reps certaintly do seem to win over low reps.

There is no reason you cant do both.

Drop sets, forced reps, negative reps, rest pause....all allow for max weights with higher reps.

The negative is what really causes hypertrophy and is why many powerlifters are not as muscular as they could be if they focused on the negative part after performing the lift.


----------



## ZAXXXXX

Both work for me.


----------



## Prodiver

Con said:


> Not sure i agree with dense muscle being built with higher reps but for general growth higher reps certaintly do seem to win over low reps.
> 
> There is no reason you cant do both.
> 
> Drop sets, forced reps, negative reps, rest pause....all allow for max weights with higher reps.
> 
> *The negative is what really causes hypertrophy *and is why many powerlifters are not as muscular as they could be if they focused on the negative part after performing the lift.


Yes - the reason we do reps, rather than 1 rep max is by exhausting the muscle to effectively achieve negative reps on the ones just before failure - providing we lower the weight slowly to derive the most benefit. (Read up on Arthur Jones's findings.)

It turns out that in fact most guys are extremely similar and that 8 - 12 intense reps is optimum for maximal growth.

Most guys don't lift slow and intense enough, and do far too many sets and exercises coz thet feel they should be doing more and can - because they haven't lifted intensely enough.

Mike Mentzer pointed out that if you can do more than an hour a day in the gym, you're not working hard enough!


----------



## nibbsey

dutch_scott said:


> heres my take for my body
> 
> quads-12-20reps
> 
> hams-4-8reps
> 
> calves- they grow from 1-100 reps
> 
> biceps-2-8
> 
> triceps-12+
> 
> back- pullups/pulldowns 10-12
> 
> *pull ups- 4+*
> 
> chest 4-10...
> 
> so all works for me..


 You can't be that big Scott if you're still wearing them at that size. lol:laugh:


----------



## nibbsey

dutch_scott said:


> I forget mofos on here pick up on everything, yeah i am just got tiny a55 hips nibs... lol


 Sorry mate, it was goin beggin!


----------



## Incredible Bulk

i stick with higher reps for legs (15-20) and they have responded beautifully....

for some exercises i stick to no more that 6-8...

its all about finding out what your prefer and what works for you


----------



## geeby112

Prodiver said:


> Yes - the reason we do reps, rather than 1 rep max is by exhausting the muscle to effectively achieve negative reps on the ones just before failure - providing we lower the weight slowly to derive the most benefit. (Read up on Arthur Jones's findings.)
> 
> It turns out that in fact most guys are extremely similar and that 8 - 12 intense reps is optimum for maximal growth.
> 
> Most guys don't lift slow and intense enough, and do far too many sets and exercises coz thet feel they should be doing more and can - because they haven't lifted intensely enough.
> 
> Mike Mentzer pointed out that if you can do more than an hour a day in the gym, you're not working hard enough!


i agree there, i do heavy but focus on lowering slow in a controlled manner then up fast and squeeze, best pump i get is on arms using this method, i do between 8 - 10 and when i reach 10 easly i add more weight and work up to 10 again, that method works best for me, always failing on excercise but feeling the muscle work not just going through the motions :thumbup1:


----------



## GSleigh

Use a mixture of both for good results


----------



## Guest

Rickski said:


> It is body part specific, low reps as a rule but Calves and Delts spring to mind for high reps.


yep yep yep:thumbup1:

although delts for me seem to prefer heavy and slow movement, all to his own


----------



## Andypandy999

as for me it depends on what i am doing, i do seriuos reps on my stomach and less on bigger muscles like my chest, traps, lats...

Andy


----------



## phenom82

I prefere the higher rep range. Especially for legs, back and chest.


----------



## paulo

legs higher up to 15 max,generally upper body is 8s least i do 5 reps


----------



## Jacko89

low reps for growth but groups like calves and abs do high reps


----------



## Guest

Harry Jack said:


> low reps for growth but groups like calves and abs do high reps


 Why do you think that calves need high reps along with abbs?

Calves are used for high reps at all times during the day why would high reps then create growth?

The more i train the more i realise weight means very little as far as growth goes, over all stress on a muscle is what creates growth.


----------



## Tommy10

Changed my workouts a few weeks ago to low reps x5-8 and heavier weights, especially in some of the compound moves...managing to add another 10kg+ in most exercises especially dead's/ BB Rows/ Bench Press...always do high reps in Absx20...thought I worked hard before but this method really pushes my sessions....added 3lb in body weight too....smashin:thumbup1:


----------



## sophos9

All upper body sit at 4 sets going 12, 10, 8, 6. All lower body also 4 sets going 16, 14, 12, 10

Only time this changes is in power training... where I may go 10, 6, 4.

There is science behind the volume of reps, just cannot recall it!


----------



## costacurtis

Con said:


> The more i train the more i realise weight means very little as far as growth goes, over all stress on a muscle is what creates growth.


BANg on the money with that oNe!! :thumb:


----------



## NickM

Prodiver said:


> Yes - the reason we do reps, rather than 1 rep max is by exhausting the muscle to effectively achieve negative reps on the ones just before failure - providing we lower the weight slowly to derive the most benefit. (Read up on Arthur Jones's findings.)
> 
> It turns out that in fact most guys are extremely similar and that 8 - 12 intense reps is optimum for maximal growth.
> 
> Most guys don't lift slow and intense enough, and do far too many sets and exercises coz thet feel they should be doing more and can - because they haven't lifted intensely enough.
> 
> Mike Mentzer pointed out that if you can do more than an hour a day in the gym, you're not working hard enough!


I completley agree mate, rep range doesnt matter so much so long as its ans intense hard work set with the last rep or few reps being all you canm muster. Warm up sets obviously not included in this.


----------



## daisbuys

I go for 12-10-8 on most compound moves, but if there's enough there for another rep then I'l do it, but if I can only manage 7 on the last rep so be it. As long as I know my muscles have failed and not my mind I'm happy.


----------



## AlphaMale888

Depends on your goals and muscle groups, heavier ie 5-8 and low for chest and higher for something like legs ie 12-20. Calves need to do ridiculously heavy weight in high reps like over a thousand lbs at least, I usually go like 1200 for 20 on my last set nowadays on the sled.


----------



## defdaz

High rep freak here. I've had too many injuries from using low rep heavy weights to care about and I've found over the years that higher reps work better for me anyway. Bit of a result really. 

Some people seem to think that you can't train hard on high reps. Bizarre.


----------



## sophos9

On reflect, perhaps a blend of training programs that provide high and low reps in an alternating pattern... Thats the way I'm going try


----------



## Galtonator

mix it up .Some weeks go low reps some weeks go high reps


----------



## Replicator

defdaz said:


> High rep freak here. I've had too many injuries from using low rep heavy weights to care about and I've found over the years that higher reps work better for me anyway. Bit of a result really.
> 
> Some people seem to think that you can't train hard on high reps. Bizarre.


My feelings exactly,

Been training 12 years and I am an old coot so am very prone to injuries at the low rep range so now do no less than 12 reps and up to 20 reps (last sets to failure) alternating the exercises rep ranges between 12 and 20 with every new regime and have been pretty much injury free for a good 2 years or more. Legs tho are never under 20 reps now.


----------



## Prodiver

Interesting thread this...

Don't forget that human skeletal muscle contains both fast and slow twitch muscle fibres.

The slow twitch muscle fibres, which give endurance, don't get bigger through exercise, the body always trying to minimize the mass it carries for a given duty. This is why long distance runners are typically slim and wiry.

Genetically some of us fortunately have a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres than slow.

But whatever our body type, in bodybuilding (and powerlifting) it is always the fast twitch muscle fibres we are concerned with, as they confer power and cause muscles to grow bigger through being stressed.

If you use weights low enough to allow you to do lots of exercises and high - maybe 15 plus - reps, the danger is that you will never stress the fast twitch muscle fibres enough to make them grow.

As Con points out, most people's calves are used all day long without growing big, and it is only unusually heavy weights in donkey raises, etc. that will stress their fast twitch muscle fibres enough for them to grow. The same is true for abs: low reps, heavy weights are best.

We all know guys who spend hours in the gym every day doing four or five exercises and five or six sets of 15 reps for each, yet who haven't really grown any bigger in five years...

What's necessary is to lift relatively heavy weights intensely, which means in a slow and controlled manner.

The problem with lifting heavy weights is cheating, and injury.

If you choose too heavy a weight to lift and stress a muscle in a strict, controlled, slow manner, the body will always allow you to cheat by utilizing other muscle groups; but that simply means you are not stressing the intended muscle optimally.

And if you cheat by "throwing" - heaving - the weight, not only will the muscle not be optimally stressed, but you're in danger of tearing it and other muscles!

The trick is to stress your fast twitch muscle fibres enough to make them grow maximally. It turns out that here we are all remarkably similar, and that we can ensure this by doing not 1 rep "max", when we may just fail to cause enough stress, but by using a weight that allows 8 - 10 reps for 3 working sets, with failure on the last set, and thereby overstressing the muscle as it fatigues.

If you go on working the muscle after this, you will actually lessen the effective growth, as your slow-twitch fibres take over and the muscle nutrition alters to allow this.

Some point out the huge number of sets and reps done by some of the "greats" of the past, but this does beg the question of how much bigger even they might have been had they done as few as Mike Mentzer and Franco Columbu...


----------



## Ecksarmy11

Prodiver said:


> Interesting thread this...
> 
> Don't forget that human skeletal muscle contains both fast and slow twitch muscle fibres.
> 
> The slow twitch muscle fibres, which give endurance, don't get bigger through exercise, the body always trying to minimize the mass it carries for a given duty. This is why long distance runners are typically slim and wiry.
> 
> Genetically some of us fortunately have a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres than slow.
> 
> But whatever our body type, in bodybuilding (and powerlifting) it is always the fast twitch muscle fibres we are concerned with, as they confer power and cause muscles to grow bigger through being stressed.
> 
> If you use weights low enough to allow you to do lots of exercises and high - maybe 15 plus - reps, the danger is that you will never stress the fast twitch muscle fibres enough to make them grow.
> 
> As Con points out, most people's calves are used all day long without growing big, and it is only unusually heavy weights in donkey raises, etc. that will stress their fast twitch muscle fibres enough for them to grow. The same is true for abs: low reps, heavy weights are best.
> 
> We all know guys who spend hours in the gym every day doing four or five exercises and five or six sets of 15 reps for each, yet who haven't really grown any bigger in five years...
> 
> What's necessary is to lift relatively heavy weights intensely, which means in a slow and controlled manner.
> 
> The problem with lifting heavy weights is cheating, and injury.
> 
> If you choose too heavy a weight to lift and stress a muscle in a strict, controlled, slow manner, the body will always allow you to cheat by utilizing other muscle groups; but that simply means you are not stressing the intended muscle optimally.
> 
> And if you cheat by "throwing" - heaving - the weight, not only will the muscle not be optimally stressed, but you're in danger of tearing it and other muscles!
> 
> The trick is to stress your fast twitch muscle fibres enough to make them grow maximally. It turns out that here we are all remarkably similar, and that we can ensure this by doing not 1 rep "max", when we may just fail to cause enough stress, but by using a weight that allows 8 - 10 reps for 3 working sets, with failure on the last set, and thereby overstressing the muscle as it fatigues.
> 
> If you go on working the muscle after this, you will actually lessen the effective growth, as your slow-twitch fibres take over and the muscle nutrition alters to allow this.
> 
> Some point out the huge number of sets and reps done by some of the "greats" of the past, but this does beg the question of how much bigger even they might have been had they done as few as Mike Mentzer and Franco Columbu...


What a great post ! :thumbup1:


----------



## Goose

Patrick you have hit the nail on the head. IMO heavy weights low reps does not build muscle as well as high intense workouts.

I've recently lowered the weights ive been using and hit 10-15 reps on sets and exercises. The burn is unreal and I feel far more growth from it, Also feel more in shape if you understand what I mean.


----------



## Prodiver

Goose said:


> Patrick you have hit the nail on the head. IMO heavy weights low reps does not build muscle as well as high intense workouts.
> 
> I've recently lowered the weights ive been using and hit 10-15 reps on sets and exercises. The burn is unreal and I feel far more growth from it, Also feel more in shape if you understand what I mean.


Yes - but beware too high reps, as you will then get into aerobic/slow twitch mode and lessen your gains!


----------



## nitrogen

I believe it`s all individual and depends on genetics, and the % of type of muscle fibres the skeletal muscles consist of. Different training methods may apply to african carebean nationals than white european/and or white us citizen. My body is an example of individual needs, whatever I do for my legs, calves and forearms they respond. Chest, back, shoulders i`ts mainly heavy 6-10 reps, even 3-5 for chest. Arms, they dont respond to anything, still haven`t manage to figure out the correct way to match the rest of my body.


----------



## defdaz

Up the reps mate, train to absolute failure with higher reps and then partials, drop sets, negatives, supersets (obviously only a few sets like this are needed per body part!) - UP THE INTENSITY. If you chest, back and shoulders don't respond to that then you're dead. 

It's not really obvious but with higher rep sets you get much closer to failure than you would with low reps. Say with a 6 rep set each rep take 15% of your muscle's immediately available energy. 6 x 15 = 90%, which leaves 10% left - not enough to do one more rep. But if you were doing a 15 rep set with each rep taking 6% then 15 x 6 = 90 - 10% left. You grind out another rep, taking you to 96% - much closer to failure than the six rep set.

Not really how it works but is a good analogy!


----------



## anabolic ant

here it is...everything you need to know(i keep posting this up):

Manipulating Reps for Gains in Size and Strength

by Charles Poliquin

Perhaps the most important loading parameter in designing exercise programs is not the number of sets, the tempo used, or even the specific exercises employed, but the number of repetitions selected.

It is clear that the most important variable to strength training is the amount of resistance used. The amount of weight determines the tension put on a muscle, and how long this tension is maintained determines the muscle's response. In fact, subtle manipulations can make the difference between increases in strength, increases in size and increases in endurance.

And the wrong manipulation can make the set, and indeed, the whole exercise session, worthless.

Obviously, the number of repetitions performed determines how much the athlete can lift, and given this fact, I have come up with 24 principles that can influence your decision, approximately half of which are presented in this article.

Whether you design programs for others or just yourself, many of these principles should help you in attaining your physique goals.

1. The number of reps done for a given time under tension dictates the training effect.

Training intensities can be altered in one of two ways: by having the athlete work at a higher percentage of his max (heavier weights), or moving the weight faster during the lifting, or concentric part of the lift.

While the number of reps an athlete performs also influences the training effect, it's mandatory that the speed used to execute the movement also be considered. It's too bad that very few researchers take into consideration the effects of different repetition speeds, and even worse that few coaches take tempo into consideration.

This is where the whole "super slow" theory of training falls flat. As far as sport is concerned, whoever produces the most amount of force in the shortest amount of time wins. By purposely training slow, you learn to become slow. Reducing the speed of movement just increases the time a muscle is under tension, not the intensity. As far as bodybuilding, however, it does not matter so much because functionality of the muscles is not crucial. In that regard, training slow for a brief period can lead to hypertrophy, especially if the trainee has been lifting explosively for a while.

Generally speaking, however, sets that subject the muscles to less than 20 seconds of time under tension build strength, while those that take from 40 to 60 seconds to complete cause hypertrophy.

2. MVC's (Maximal Voluntary Contractions) are essential to the strength building process.

To build size and strength, it is essential to incorporate maximal voluntary contractions. In short, this means recruiting as many motor units as possible to develop force.

Contrary to what you might assume, an MVC does not always equate to a 1RM load. Rather, an MVC could be the last rep of a 5 or 6RM load, where performing another rep is impossible.

Working with 1RM loads, though, enables an athlete to achieve maximal motor unit activation (MUA). Do this enough times, and neural adaptations and increased strength occur.

This is why the rest-pause training methodology is so valuable. For those of you unfamiliar with it, it involves using a 1RM load, which activates the maximal number of motor units. The athlete then racks the bar, removes 2-5% of the load, and then repeats the lift. The process is then repeated, for usually no more than 8 reps.

3. An athlete should use between 70 and 100% of maximum capacity to develop maximal strength.

While there is still some controversy as to the exact range of percentages, many leading experts in strength training believe that the best way to develop maximal strength is to use weights that allow the athlete to perform between 1 and 12 reps at 70 to 100% of the athlete's 1RM.

Some say, however, that anything below 75% is best suited for developing muscular endurance, while others put the number at 60%.

It is my experience, however, that the lower threshold is 70%, but beginners, and especially women, can often make progress using loads that are approximately 60% of 1RM.

4. The range in repetitions needed to develop strength and/or hypertrophy decreases with training age.

Training age, or the number of years the athlete has been training, influences the 1RM continuum.

While the average beginning weight trainee can often do 20 reps at 75% of maximum, that same trainee may do 10 reps at 75% of maximum after a year. If that same trainee is examined five years later, he may only do 4 reps at 75% of maximum.

Why is this important? Consider the athlete with a training age of one year who can bench press 12 reps at 140 pounds, which is 70% of his 1RM. Perhaps when this trainee has been training for four years, his new 1RM is 400 pounds. However, he may now only be able to complete 6 reps using 70% of his 1RM, which is 280 pounds.

Given that it is generally agreed upon by the strength training community that that 70% is the minimum threshold for strength development, it would not be a good idea to prescribe weights lower than 70%, or repetitions higher than 6, as the weight would be too light to promote gains in strength.

5. The 1RM continuum varies greatly among muscle groups.

If an athlete performs his 12RM (the amount of weight he can lift 12 times) in the bench press, he may only be working at 70% of maximum, but at 12RM in the leg curl, he may only be working at 57% of maximum.

The extreme is even more remarkable when you consider certain lower body movements that employ a high stretch-shortening cycle component, such as leg presses. Many athletes can do 65 reps on the leg press while using a weight that is 70% of their maximum!

6. The number of repetitions is the loading parameter that athletes adapt to the most quickly.

It's best to vary rep range prescriptions often because the body adapts very quickly to given rep ranges. In fact, the average athlete adapts to a given number of reps in six workouts. When this adaptation occurs, it's virtually pointless to continue the same program.

One method with which I have had great success it to prescribe a given rep bracket for 2 workouts, lower it by 1 rep for the next two workouts, and then lower it by 1 rep yet again for one or two workouts.

Here is an example of such a progression:

Workouts 1-2: 4 sets x 6-8

Workouts 3-4: 5 sets x 5-7

Workouts 5-6: 5 sets x 4-6

7. Elite athletes must pay attention to the specificity of contraction force.

Generally speaking, reps in the 1RM to 5RM range increase maximal strength with minimal gains in mass. Reps in the 8RM to 15RM range produce greater gains in hypertrophy, while reps between 6RM and 7RM produce equal changes in hypertrophy and strength.

However, when considering athletes who have several years of training experience, low repetitions (1-5) must be used with high loads (85% or higher) for both relative and absolute strength, while mid-repetitions (6-12) must be used with sub maximal loads (70-84%) for absolute strength gains. High repetitions should be combined with light loads for strength-endurance (less than 70%).

In other words, athletes with more years of experience can train with a broader range of repetitions.

Along the same lines, periodically "straying" into unfamiliar rep ranges can have positive training effects that are not consistent with the norm. For instance, in athletes seeking hypertrophy, periodically employing programs that use 1RM to 5RM ranges can lead to increases in muscle size in addition to strength.

8. Don't perform low reps too frequently.

Sport scientist Robert Roman has written extensively on the training of competitive lifters and he concluded that the most successful weightlifters tend to do most of their sets in the 3RM to 4RM range.

This observation was echoed by Canadian weightlifting coach Pierre Roy, who believes that the average rep range for athletes should be 3.

The take home point is that if an athlete does singles or doubles for too long, he will stagnate. This, of course, is especially true for athletes who seek hypertrophy.

9. Each muscle group or lift responds best to a specific average rep range.

Throughout my career, I have had the opportunity to analyze the training logs of the hundreds of athletes that I've coached. As such, it has become apparent that the optimal rep range should be specific to the muscle group or exercise chosen.

For instance, in the case of the elbow flexors, the best strength gains were obtained when no less than an average of 2.5 reps per set were performed, with a minimum total of 15 reps per workout.

Along the same lines, for hypertrophy purposes, triceps generally respond better to fewer reps than the biceps (because the triceps are generally more fast-twitch). Another example regards the hamstrings, which generally require fewer reps than quadriceps, or the gastrocs, which require fewer reps than the soleus.

10. The function of the muscle dictates the number of reps.

You have no doubt heard your physiology professor say, "Form dictates function." It is also my experience there are specific rep ranges that are more appropriate for certain muscle functions.

As an example, training the knee flexors (hamstrings) with sets of 12 results in little hypertrophy. However, when training the knee extensors, sets of up to 50 reps (leg press) can induce hypertrophy. This probably has to do with the fact that the knee flexors are used for explosive tasks, while the knee extensors are used primarily for maintaining posture and in the execution of certain stretch-shortening tasks.

11. Vary reps for the upper body more than the lower body.

Recent studies confirm that using programs that employ variation in rep ranges was more beneficial for the upper body than the lower body.

For example, if designing a program for the bench press, it's more important to vary the reps often than it is for movements like the squat and deadlift.

12. High-rep training can increase capillary density.

Studies have shown that sets of more than 20 reps can increase capillary density, and capillary dense muscle can eventually lead to hypertrophy when one resumes more traditional rep schemes.

One such study, performed in 1973, showed that as little as one high-rep workout was enough to double the amount of mitochondria in muscle cells.

I think this is one reason why cyclists and speed skaters have such large quadriceps - they expose the muscles to an extreme amount of time under tension, thus facilitating capillary growth and hypertrophy of lower threshold motor units.

However, from personal experience, it seems that the quads, deltoids and lats would benefit from this type of training more than other muscle groups.

13. Reps performed in one exercise may have a different effect than reps performed for another exercise, even though both movements are for the same body part.

When comparing squats against leg press, squats are far more effective in increasing leg strength and overall strength. However, there is some evidence to suggest that the leg press might result in more hypertrophy of the quadriceps. One study, at least, showed that for the same number of reps, the leg press resulted in a higher amount of Growth Hormone being produced than squats.

As possible evidence, the leg press is the exercise of choice when it comes to speed skating, and I have personally worked with speed skaters whose legs made Tom Platz's look like Woody Allen's.

While I am loathe to recommend leg presses instead of squats, I merely present it as an interesting discussion point.

There are many more principles regarding the manipulation of reps that I use in designing programs, but the ones I have presented here should put you light years ahead of the average weight training pack.

Editor's note: This article is a brief extract of some the material presented in the Poliquin International Certification Program Level Theory 1 Manual that can be purchased at www.CharlesPoliquin.net.


----------



## d4ead

My personal opinion on this is, low reps with max weight from 3 - 5 reps is best for increasing strenngth.

Reps from 8 - 12 is best for growth, again at the heavyest you can manage in that range.


----------



## Dsahna

The best muscle gains ive had have been in the 4-6 range to failure


----------



## fourX

i agree with what alot of what has been said also......everone is diferent and some exercises/ techniques will ultimately work better or differently for different people. its about finding out what works best for you.

personaly 12 is my magic number....if i cant get the 12...have a short rest and punch out the rest pyramiding the weight.

though..i guess...if you want to get BIG.....do things big...eat big...sleep big...lift big...party big!


----------



## Mikazagreat

Alternate your training style(grip, weights, reps, tempo)

Everything works in a different way so to reach a good physique you need to do everything "this is my theory".


----------



## Guest

Mikazagreat said:


> Alternate your training style(grip, weights, reps, tempo)
> 
> Everything works in a different way so to reach a good physique you need to do everything "this is my theory".


Jack of all trades master of none 

It depends on the exercise ext but time under tension matters the most IMO, i think 6 reps done with very slow negatives will bring more growth that 15 reps done at light speed........that said some of the best physiques are built with these loose reps.


----------



## Dsahna

Yes my reps are super slow with plenty emphasis on the negative


----------



## Big Gunz

I choose a rep range of 6-10 reps. Sometimes though I'll go into the triples on bench/deads.


----------



## Van

I do what i call A , B and C intensity work outs which include everything for e.g

heres a very quick over view for biceps (it applys to most muscles)

A day is Bicep curls - 10 reps 10 sets 60% (rythmic) max 1-3 minute rest between sets

B day Bicep curls 5 reps 3 sets 85% max (explosive)

Dumbell curls 10-12 reps 3 sets 70% max (rythmic)

preacher curls 30-40 reps 3 sets 40% max ( slow )

1-3 minute rest between sets

C day

Bicep curls 5 reps

Dumbell curls 10-12 reps

preacher curls 40 reps

work through until failure in a zig zag fashion with no rest between sets (killer)

It is more complicated than this, but it allows you to have a set routine that always changes allowing for maximum resluts as muscles will benifit from all aspects of weight training, so in effect you will gain strength size and definition.


----------



## BillC

Being a come back king to weights, having given up entirely more times than I care to mention, I can only go by personnal experience on which way gets me back into it faster. For me thats 20 rep warm up, 12, 10, 8, 6 then drop set that 6 rep set to get 12 reps. Sort of best of both worlds. Never got near what most of you have on here, just seeing as I have started from scratch a few times, with both high rep and low rep routines, its what has yeilded the best results for me. Might be different once the plataeu has fully set in. When I plateued in the past, a few weeks of very low rep sets and negatives kicked it all off again. I just find at the moment I'm already at a brick wall benching wise so am actually trying higher reps just to get a harder workout.

If really low reps worked, like 1 or 2 , then why aren't powerlifters(olympians for example) nowhere near the size the local gym bunny, but snatching more than most could squat ?

Was told 15 years ago by the guy whom instructed me over 12 reps is approaching a cardio workout and it's aerobic fatigue rather than muscle that causes failure beyond 12 reps, and he was 250+ pounds of muscle at 5' 9" in comp mode so who am I to argue until I'm proved different. He recommended 8-10 always controlling the weight down and powering it up, once you could do 10 reps without a spotter, up the weight to one where you need a spotter to get 8. Varying was also what I was told as to shock the muscle into growth.

I can still remember reading an article years ago, I'm not sure who it was by, but it was basically saying all your work on a body part is building for the last 2 reps you do to your max which is what causes the shock and growth. Not sure how much truth there is in this but just thought I'd throw it in.

Off to find that magic potion which will allow me to build muscle whilst dieting my love handlees away....


----------



## Adam T

5 reps, lower has got to build more muscle mass, its just logical imo


----------



## burky

av been training on a morn heavy as poss low reps, & then again tea time same body part but different excersizes with slightley higher reps, I do this daily, training diff body parts , I feel my body has been shocked & seem to be growing mass from it.. any one any ideas if i will benefit long term from this?


----------



## Guest

burky said:


> av been training on a morn heavy as poss low reps, & then again tea time same body part but different excersizes with slightley higher reps, I do this daily, training diff body parts , I feel my body has been shocked & seem to be growing mass from it.. any one any ideas if i will benefit long term from this?


On the long term you will over train your cns and progress will come to a hault.

Over training takes many weeks to recover from so make sure you pull back before this happens


----------



## burky

cushty pal this is my second wk at it i feel my body mass is progressin from this am of bk yo a 5 day split nxt wk i.e mornin chest afternoon biceps al be doin this for nxt 2 wk jst love to shock evrything and feel all the difrent aches evry day a no av bin to gym wich makes it al the better cos a no av workd them av you any split rouetines:rockon:


----------



## Guest

burky said:


> cushty pal this is my second wk at it i feel my body mass is progressin from this am of bk yo a 5 day split nxt wk i.e mornin chest afternoon biceps al be doin this for nxt 2 wk jst love to shock evrything and feel all the difrent aches evry day a no av bin to gym wich makes it al the better cos a no av workd them av you any split rouetines:rockon:


Bloody hell thats a bit hard to read mate


----------



## burky

its my short text lol :confused1:


----------



## rodrigo

i am mostly the 6-10 rep range but give the 15-20 range a 4 week stint every now and again ,find the higher reps a much more ball breaker than lower


----------



## dave_jenks

personally, i feel you should cycle between high range and weight, i feel this works great for me,

e.g 4 weeks of a power cycle like 2-6 reps, then a build cycle of 10-12, then if i have an injury or fancy a pump i will go 20 reps, not only is this good for muscles but it stops you getting bored, it makes a nice change.......but as long as you work hard with intensty then you will grow


----------



## godsgifttoearth

i personally dont think it matters.

pick a set and rep structure and stick with it.

the only thing that matters is progression in the weights. its the only thing that is going to force your body to overcompensate and grow bigger muscles.

some people may find certain rep ranges more beneficial. 20rep sets on my legs are good for me because i run a lot, it also helps train my lactate capacity.

but as a general rule, the main thing in getting more muscle, is to get stronger. so this means move more weight than last time.


----------



## dtlv

godsgifttoearth said:


> i personally dont think it matters.
> 
> pick a set and rep structure and stick with it.
> 
> the only thing that matters is progression in the weights. its the only thing that is going to force your body to overcompensate and grow bigger muscles.
> 
> some people may find certain rep ranges more beneficial. 20rep sets on my legs are good for me because i run a lot, it also helps train my lactate capacity.
> 
> but as a general rule, the main thing in getting more muscle, is to get stronger. so this means move more weight than last time.


I think that's the most important point - yes different loads and rep schemes will develop different muscle fibre types and have differing hormonal responses, but at the end of the day the most important thing by a long way is consistent progression.


----------



## Dezw

I work best around the 3-5 rep range.


----------



## Mr Incredible

both


----------



## Jake1436114563

Magic Torch said:


> As long as you work the muscle to failure then I guess it doesn't really matter does it?


Training to failiure is NOT the way to go.


----------



## Jake1436114563

Adam T said:


> 5 reps, lower has got to build more muscle mass, its just logical imo


Logical? Care to elaborate?


----------



## Jake1436114563

I prefer low reps. I find it more enjoyable to be honest.

Can't say it's hurt my growth at all.


----------



## Andy Dee

I tend to do lower reps with heavy weight, Ive found low reps with heavy weight does wonders for my strenght gains. 8-12 works well but it doesnt do much for me as far as strenght increase goes.

As far as mass building goes I think both have worked well for me, I enjoy lower reps and much heavier weight though tbh, it gives me more of an enjoyment I can life heavy.


----------



## Guest

Jake said:


> Training to failiure is NOT the way to go.


Ok........why?

When off gear i like to use lower reps while on gear i use higher reps because the gear helps with glycogen storage so "pumping" the muscle helps develop a rounder look.


----------



## Jake1436114563

You know why, surely?

Your CNS will take a battering. More than 99% of people will get overtrained quickly by training to failiure on every set.

What's your thoughts on training to failiure then pal?


----------



## Johnnythebull

Mixture of both seem to work for me, although I was told 'Heavy weights and less reps for getting big, less weight and more reps for tonning up'.


----------



## Dean00

Ive been using the 12,10,8,6 method in my training now for awile but since ive joined the american football team im going to bring it down to 3-6 2mro on main lifts bench squat etc ill let this thread know how i get on in like 4 weeks if its still alive :thumb:


----------



## John Wood

Hit everything heavy and hard with good form at least 8-10 reps and increase the poundage each set its the only thing that works for me though


----------



## carbsnwhey

depends which muscle group but I prefer heavy weights low reps


----------



## NICK_1

i stay between 4-8 reps, start off high and finish low 8,8,6,4 (pyramid sets, i think??). Sometimes finish off with a drop set on last exercise of muscle group


----------



## MillionG

8 - 12 for me, if I can reach 10 on my last set I up the weight next time. Sometimes I don't reach 8, but I've reached faliure so I'm happy 

Low range - mainly cuz I'm lazy


----------



## Bambi

Up the weight until I can't do 4 reps at it. Then go back down until I finish off with a set of 10 at one rep - kind of a double pyramid. Works for me


----------



## martinmcg

just smash each muscle group to bits ...!!! it aint got a brain it cant count, it either contracts or it dont..

theres a top ukbff superheavy weight built his legs on 20+ reps

there are no rules , not about how heavy you lift ,just how much pain you can take


----------



## B-GJOE

martinmcg said:


> just smash each muscle group to bits ...!!! it aint got a brain it cant count, it either contracts or it dont..
> 
> theres a top ukbff superheavy weight built his legs on 20+ reps
> 
> there are no rules , not about how heavy you lift ,just how much pain you can take


X2


----------



## Guest

martinmcg said:


> just smash each muscle group to bits ...!!! it aint got a brain it cant count, it either contracts or it dont..
> 
> theres a top ukbff superheavy weight built his legs on 20+ reps
> 
> there are no rules , not about how heavy you lift ,just how much pain you can take


x3


----------



## jonb19

Im in the 'mix it up' section.

Did a 4/6 week program of high rep monster set's late 09 and def saw some gains. Could have been me getting lean at the same time but i shall be back on it soon......if i think it works than thats good enough for me:thumb:


----------



## NICK_1

i've started working high to low reps increasing the weight each time, pyramid sets (i think). which i find works quite well for me.


----------



## Guest

Remember seeing lee preist do 100reps straight off on the leg press. often i do stuff like that or pick a weight and rep out for 1-2mins. fvcks the life out of you.


----------



## Dean00

3-12 for me, i pyramid sets on pretty much every excersise.

I think tho that of you were to do the same rep range for more than like a month it would stop working so every 4 weeks try a week of 5x5

It all works as long as the body is getting stressed! :thumbup:


----------



## jesta

i like to mix it up.. one session of high reps next session on that group heavy weight


----------



## round 2

The way i see it is who has more muscle the 100meter sprinter or the 5000 meter marathon runner? ones doing high reps ones doing low.


----------



## LittleChris

round 2 said:


> The way i see it is who has more muscle the 100meter sprinter or the 5000 meter marathon runner? ones doing high reps ones doing low.


But they train for different purposes. The analogy is fundamentlaly flawed in regards to bodybuilding as both have the same aim; building slabs of muscle.

I like to do my compounds heavy and beyond failure, normally 5-8 reps. I will do an isolation exercise, depending on bodypart, with 12-20 reps.

Just mix it up is the key- I finished tris and shoulders today with 15 superslow close grip presses off a wall. Did the same with calves with 30 superslow standing raises after my calf press, and will do very high reps walking DB lunges tomorrow.

Progressive overload and variety :thumbup1:


----------



## Guest

round 2 said:


> The way i see it is who has more muscle the 100meter sprinter or the 5000 meter marathon runner? ones doing high reps ones doing low.


Whole different game mate


----------



## round 2

Dan said:


> Whole different game mate


I know.i was just looking at it from an extreme point of veiw. I always understood low reps 5-8 mass.10-20 cuts/facia


----------



## Bulkamania

Why not go for the best of both worlds and do low reps and high reps in the same workout? That's what I'm going to start doing, for example my back workout will look like this....

Deadlifts - 5/3/1 routine

Bent over rows - 12, 10, 8, 6

Bent over dbell rows - 12, 10, 8, 6

Pull ups - 2 x failure

Also, how much rest do you lot have between sets?? For most exercises I let myself have 2 minutes but I'm going to try and take that down to 90 seconds as it will be more intense and cause more stress on the muscle.

I'm still going to stick with 3 minutes for deads though, as they take so much energy!


----------



## Guest

round 2 said:


> I know.i was just looking at it from an extreme point of veiw. I always understood low reps 5-8 mass.10-20 cuts/facia


Bodybuilding is about working the muscle, doing 3 reps of heavy sloppy benching compared to 10 slow reps of excellent form benching.. well i'll let you work that out


----------



## B-GJOE

Dan said:


> Bodybuilding is about working the muscle, doing 3 reps of heavy sloppy benching compared to 10 slow reps of excellent form benching.. well i'll let you work that out


X2

Muscles don't know how much weight they are lifting, or how many reps. All it knows is intensity of contraction, and how much breakdown needs repairing, and hopefully some overcompensation.


----------



## B-GJOE

Bulkamania said:


> Why not go for the best of both worlds and do low reps and high reps in the same workout? That's what I'm going to start doing, for example my back workout will look like this....
> 
> Deadlifts - 5/3/1 routine
> 
> Bent over rows - 12, 10, 8, 6
> 
> Bent over dbell rows - 12, 10, 8, 6
> 
> Pull ups - 2 x failure
> 
> Also, how much rest do you lot have between sets?? For most exercises I let myself have 2 minutes but I'm going to try and take that down to 90 seconds as it will be more intense and cause more stress on the muscle.
> 
> I'm still going to stick with 3 minutes for deads though, as they take so much energy!


I only have 60 seconds between sets, and i use a stopwatch to make sure I'm not skiving. Each set is also between 40 and 90, so in a 30 minute workout I probably spend 18-20 minutes under load. That really blasts the muscles, and it's working.


----------



## Kezz

martinmcg said:


> just smash each muscle group to bits ...!!! it aint got a brain it cant count, it either contracts or it dont..
> 
> theres a top ukbff superheavy weight built his legs on 20+ reps
> 
> there are no rules , not about how heavy you lift ,just how much pain you can take


 Absolutley bang on !!


----------



## round 2

Dan said:


> Bodybuilding is about working the muscle, doing 3 reps of heavy sloppy benching compared to 10 slow reps of excellent form benching.. well i'll let you work that out


Have you ever seen sly stallone working out? sloppyist form ive ever seen.Looks good though dont he! i would say its more about the effort you put in not form.but hey your the expert


----------



## dtlv

I find that I just can't train at the volume most people seem to... or rather I can train with that volume, but find that either intensity or form has to be sacrificed to do so (which kind of defeats the point).

I think you can hit any muscle completely and easily to the point of stimulation on just a few sets per session, provided they are focused enough. Doesn't even have to be to failure - progression from session to session at a level intese enough to work the muscle is the important bit.


----------



## Guest

round 2 said:


> Have you ever seen sly stallone working out? sloppyist form ive ever seen.Looks good though dont he! i would say its more about the effort you put in not form.but hey your the expert


Maybe its the mountains AAS and GH you ... 

And is it fvck the effort you put it.


----------



## dtlv

Drugs can hide a lot of poor training habits... many people who juice and look good might well look a lot better if they juiced the same but trained properly too!


----------



## round 2

Dan said:


> Maybe its the mountains AAS and GH you pr**k.
> 
> And is it fvck the effort you put it.


LOVELY:tongue:


----------



## ElfinTan

How about heavy high reps?????? :0)


----------



## round 2

Dtlv74 said:


> Drugs can hide a lot of poor training habits... many people who juice and look good might well look a lot better if they juiced the same but trained properly too!


VERY TRUE/DO AGREE.BUT IS IT BETTER TO DO A COUPLE MORE REPS WITH A BIT OF POOR FORM BETTER THAN NOT DOING THE 2 REPS AT ALL. SIDE DELT RAISES SPRING TO MIND? :confused1:


----------



## Guest

round 2 said:


> VERY TRUE/DO AGREE.BUT IS IT BETTER TO DO A COUPLE MORE REPS WITH A BIT OF POOR FORM BETTER THAN NOT DOING THE 2 REPS AT ALL. SIDE DELT RAISES SPRING TO MIND? :confused1:


Called forced reps. bad form = injuries and extra strain on the CNS

Yes you can do them but not every set.

SORRY I FORGOT TO SHOUT IT


----------



## round 2

Dan said:


> Called forced reps. bad form = injuries and extra strain on the CNS
> 
> Yes you can do them but not every set.
> 
> SORRY I FORGOT TO SHOUT IT


caps lock on soz


----------



## 3752

round 2 said:


> I know.i was just looking at it from an extreme point of veiw. I always understood low reps 5-8 mass.10-20 cuts/facia


no amount of reps cut the body up.......diet and cardio does this....



Dan said:


> Maybe its the mountains AAS and GH you pr**k.
> 
> And is it fvck the effort you put it.


first warning Dan do not insult other members.



ElfinTan said:


> How about heavy high reps?????? :0)


Amen to that exactly what i and many of my clients are doing now


----------



## kawikid

How can you do heavy and high reps. Like.... if i can flat db press the 50kg bells for 8reps and fail on the 8th how can i then rep higher with the heavy weight within that set?? I dont get it?? I've already hit failure. The only way i can get anything more out that set is to do a couple of assisted reps with a spotter or do a slow neg on the last rep.


----------



## dtlv

kawikid said:


> How can you do heavy and high reps. Like.... if i can flat db press the 50kg bells for 8reps and fail on the 8th how can i then rep higher with the heavy weight within that set?? I dont get it?? I've already hit failure. The only way i can get anything more out that set is to do a couple of assisted reps with a spotter or do a slow neg on the last rep.


Cluster sets or rest pause are good ways to do heavy weight/high reps -

One way is to pick a load you will max out at around 5 or 6 reps on and then do mini sets of 2-3 reps seperated by only enough rest to allow you to do another 2-3 reps. Repeat until you've reached a pre set target like 30 reps keeping rest at an absolute minimum.

This works really well for size and strength development.


----------



## BigStew

I'm with Pscarb & others on this one. Heavy weights for high reps is the way to go!!


----------



## natch97

1 of the biggest guys in my gym does low weights and low reps but he does them with perfect form and so slowly it's boring to watch


----------



## BigStew

natch97 said:


> 1 of the biggest guys in my gym does low weights and low reps but he does them with perfect form and so slowly it's boring to watch


Ditto to that!


----------



## round 2

If i move up a weight and cant do more than 6 reps i turn it in to a triple drop set.Tends to cover both angles


----------



## Skilzee

At the moment im currently doing

Monday - Heavy. Sets to failure, all over body work out.

Tuesday - Light. 2 sets of 16 reps. 2 exercises per muscle group.

Wednesday - Off

Thusday - Heavy. Sets to failure, all over body work out.

Friday - Off

Saturday - Light. 2 sets of 16 reps. 2 exercises per muscle group.

Just trying it for a month for a change from the norm.

What you guys think to that, benefical?


----------



## ElfinTan

Pscarb said:


> Amen to that exactly what i and many of my clients are doing now


My quads have definitely responded well to this:thumb:


----------



## johnboy05

6 - 10 reps heavy as poss 4 sets max 3 exercises per body part and you cant go wrong


----------



## B-GJOE

natch97 said:


> 1 of the biggest guys in my gym does low weights and low reps but he does them with perfect form and so slowly it's boring to watch


That's the way to do it!!! Sounds like the way I train, but I'm not one of the biggest guys in the gym....................wait a minute, yes I am!!! LOL


----------



## jw007

Cheat style 1 rep max's are way forward


----------



## ba baracuss

jw007 said:


> Cheat style 1 rep max's are way forward


Stop stealing Nytol's lines :lol:


----------



## ElfinTan

ruaidhri said:


> Bump.
> 
> Also, at what point does a high rep set become more of an aerobic workout than stressing the muscles? I would have thought if you can do 20 reps the weight is too light to stress the muscle enough to induce hypertrophy?


I do 20 reps on leg press with over 300kg.....I hardly call that light and the lads I train with go heavier than this....hardly what you'd call light!


----------



## ElfinTan

IFBB Pro Bonnie Priest High reps heavy leg press!!!!!






Think we can safely say the lass has good quads....


----------



## dazc

high reps and heavy is the only thing that works for me

people seem to suggest that higer reps means not working hard! if you use higher reps the weight you can use moves closer to your 1rm, so high reps become done with heavy weights

i train high reps, and the weight i can rep for say 12-15 isnt far off my 1rm. say working with 140 on flat bench, where my 1rm is 160


----------



## dtlv

ruaidhri said:


> Bump.
> 
> Also, at what point does a high rep set become more of an aerobic workout than stressing the muscles? I would have thought if you can do 20 reps the weight is too light to stress the muscle enough to induce hypertrophy?


The point at which a set becomes more about training aerobic endurance than stimulating growth depends on the proportion of muscle fibers in the muscle trained.

A muscle that is predominantly Type IIa and Type IIx has greater growth potential from mid-high rep training than a Type I or Type IIb dominant muscle fiber. Although there are individual differences, the Quads and Delts normally fall into this category better than other muscles.

Type I fiber dominant muscles (slow twitch) do respond best of all to high rep but are small thin fibers compared to the Type IIa and IIx's so have less growth potential overall.


----------



## dtlv

ElfinTan said:


> IFBB Pro Bonnie Priest High reps heavy leg press!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think we can safely say the lass has good quads....


That's a great pic :thumbup1:


----------



## Guest

After my training with high reps as of late I found that, heavy weights and lower reps work best for me (6-10).

Still doing some leg exercises in the 12-15 range. But ive just found that I feel/look/train better with heavier weight and lower reps.


----------



## BigDom86

i usually go heavier in the 3-6 rep range. on large movements


----------



## Hendrix

15-20 for squats will add a lot of muscle if never trained this way before. added 2 inch to thighs in 5 months.


----------



## Bulk1

Jimmy said:


> it all works
> 
> mix it up from week to week


Agree with Jimmy, I've been training in the 6 rep range and showing good progress but after a few months of this I'm starting to get niggling injuries appear (elbows, knees).

I think its a good idea to mix it up.. your joints can only take so much before an injury appears from lifting this kind of weight every session... which will set you back in the end after all that hard work.


----------



## Malibu

high weight


----------



## james12345

for me what works is compounds - big weight low reps

isolation ie arms/leg exts/raises 12-20 as heavy as possible


----------



## WRT

I don't care as long as the weight/amount of reps goes up occasionally. My form is sh1t and I don't use a slow negative. If I'm fvcked at the end of the session then I'm happy.


----------



## Kyusho

Bit of both. I train 1 week heavy, next week rep range.


----------



## Guest

Sorry to Hi-jack but i've done about a year of cycle 8-12 reps with 3/4 sets on all exercises. had decent gains.

read a lil article in muscle fitness about German Volume Training

so Monday Legs

10reps 10sets Squats

10reps 10sets leg Curl

10reps 5 sets Calve Raise

Tuesday

10reps 10sets Flat Bench

10reps 10 sets wide grip pull up

10reps 4sets dumbell flyers

10reps 4sets seated rows

thursday

10reps 10sets dips

10reps 10sets EZ Bar Curls

10reps 5sets Shrugs

10reps 3sets of this complex laterial dumpbell shoulder raise

i'm on week 3 now and had really good Gains

apparently its only good for 4/6 weeks...


----------



## cecil_sensation

nearly every think i do i aim for between 8 - 10 reps. but on my last set when i aim to fail i kepe it heavy and go for 3-6 reps


----------



## Baz R

ElfinTan said:


> IFBB Pro Bonnie Priest High reps heavy leg press!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think we can safely say the lass has good quads....


----------



## Roy Batty

I like low but im injury prone ): but i allso belive you need to alternat your workouts, split, reps etc. doing the same thing continuously and your body will just adapt/get injured


----------



## zelobinksy

This is strongly dicdated upon the muscle fibre.

Type 1 muscles fibres will develop more towards higher reps and endurance based or respond as I should say.

Type 2 will fatigue faster than type 1 and are more suited towards heavy reps.

Presonally, combining a mixture is the way to go, Heavy, Light and targetting the speed of the contraction.

A lot of people assume doing 1-3 reps is the best way to develop strength but a study I read a few weeks ago stated that although your using a large % of your muscle in your 1RM or so, you still do not use 100% of your muscle during contraction. To combat this the individual should aim for slower contraction periods or higher reps.


----------



## chelios

Personally i find that my body responds well to 6-8 reps for strength and muscle growth.

Super setting once every 3 weeks with each muscle group adds something nice.


----------



## Guest

Defo as heavy as I can, 6 week circuit (swapping exercise every 2 week), then a couple day off binging. Then a week just doing standard 3 day a week, Legs and back, Chest and shoulders, Biceps and Tris all fast reps then back to different 6 week circuit.

I find 6 week on, makes it easier for me to keep focus.


----------



## danny1871436114701

Well I found volume the best 12 - 15 reps lots of sets and exercises, but on first cycle did lot sof low reps stuff and was surpised how good strength was, so now mix and match a but, sometimes pyramid from 15 to 3 etc


----------



## DNL

danny187 said:


> Well I found volume the best 12 - 15 reps lots of sets and exercises, but on first cycle did lot sof low reps stuff and was surpised how good strength was, so now mix and match a but, sometimes pyramid from 15 to 3 etc


So ultimately you dont really know? :lol:


----------



## Lois_Lane

I like higher reps at the moment as in 15-20.

I find after a while going heavier and heavier just becomes too much on the joints.

So now instead of doing 7 plate deadlifts for low back i do reverse hyper machine for sets of 20....results are just as good.


----------



## winger

Lois_Lane said:


> I like higher reps at the moment as in 15-20.
> 
> I find after a while going heavier and heavier just becomes too much on the joints.
> 
> So now instead of doing 7 plate deadlifts for low back i do reverse hyper machine for sets of 20....results are just as good.


You built your foundation from going heavy. Now you want to talk reps...lol

Let's take a step back and ask the important questions.

If you were just starting out and were a thin/lean guy, would you do high reps or lower reps on your compound lifts?


----------



## Barker

Personally i don't see why people strain for 'strength'

I mean yeah power lifters sure, but why would a bodybuilder particularly train for strength, when he could just train for size instead. Bodybuilding is about getting big isn't it? Not strong?

Apart from bragging rights as long as you're growing i really don't see the need to train for strength.


----------



## winger

Barker said:


> Personally i don't see why people strain for 'strength'
> 
> I mean yeah power lifters sure, but why would a bodybuilder particularly train for strength, when he could just train for size instead. Bodybuilding is about getting big isn't it? Not strong?
> 
> Apart from bragging rights as long as you're growing i really don't see the need to train for strength.


IMO, most of the big guys push more weight, do you tend to agree?

Now, if I add weight to the bar on a regular basis one would assume that I am doing something right, do you tend to agree?

Once again and this is just my opinion, but wouldn't the body have to adapt to going heavier? How does it do that? By compensating I would imagine.

Excluding the Olympic lifter that trains the nerve, how many small chested guys have a 200kg bench? Or a 300kg squat and have small legs?

If you can add weight to the bar then you are doing something right!

Build the foundation from heavy compound lifts and you will be big.

Rep range changes when you stall or change exercise or your form is off.


----------



## deeppurple

in strongman training i very rarely see anybody hit the 8 rep mark. usually it is 2 to 5. i personally only do sets of 3 or 5.......but at the moment i am sticking to light weight for long reps on my deadlifts to test this theory of being able to gain strength that way. try it for a month (im a few days in now) and ill let people know le resultay.

but ive heard bodybuilders go for more reps? i know nothing of bodybuilding so i cannot come on here and say what im on about lol


----------



## deeppurple

ps Winger your a sexy b!tch.


----------



## winger

deeppurple said:


> ps Winger your a sexy b!tch.


It's more of a curse really.


----------



## benno_2010

its weird- everyone has an opinion, some say mega reps low weight; some high weight low reps; others in between.

Most the photos in the side bar show some massive guy saying do it like this; do it like that; then another guy thats just as big is saying the opposite!!

surely this just means for the gym goer who is wanting to bulk and is making progress just has to take a trial and error approach to all these methods and find their bodies best response at a particular method?

The common factor in all these methods is simply diet, nutrition and supplementation- and then its find your best routine and methods of training and sticking to it!

can anyone tel me how to change the text under my name; im not a newbie trainer but i am new to the forum and would like to change it lol!!


----------



## jay631

I like to mix it up 

Keeps my body guessing


----------



## Barker

winger said:


> IMO, most of the big guys push more weight, do you tend to agree?
> 
> Now, if I add weight to the bar on a regular basis one would assume that I am doing something right, do you tend to agree?
> 
> Once again and this is just my opinion, but wouldn't the body have to adapt to going heavier? How does it do that? By compensating I would imagine.
> 
> Excluding the Olympic lifter that trains the nerve, how many small chested guys have a 200kg bench? Or a 300kg squat and have small legs?
> 
> If you can add weight to the bar then you are doing something right!
> 
> Build the foundation from heavy compound lifts and you will be big.
> 
> Rep range changes when you stall or change exercise or your form is off.


You're right, but surely if you're training for size your strength will go up anyway?

Some BB'ers on here just seem to be bothered about getting their strength up when really as long as theyre training to failure in the correct rep range it shouldn't matter right?


----------



## Lois_Lane

winger said:


> You built your foundation from going heavy. Now you want to talk reps...lol
> 
> Let's take a step back and ask the important questions.
> 
> If you were just starting out and were a thin/lean guy, would you do high reps or lower reps on your compound lifts?


 Hi buddy.

Yes OBVIOUSLY for a beginner getting strong with lower reps on compounds is priority number one.

Just for my self at my level of development going heavier and heavier just is too destructive to my body.....i rather not turn into JW we have all seen his body crumble from mega weights

So now i do different things for instance hamstrings today...

First i did lying leg curls by curling half way up then going back up followed by a full rep that was counted as one rep.

Then i did seated leg curl explosive positive with a 5 second negative while at the same time my wife pulled on the machine increasing the weight on the negative.

Then i did 1 legged leg curl with a light weight to total failure around 30 reps.

Then i did hyper extensions once i hit failure i would hold the contracted portion for as long as possible in a static hold.

Finally to finish off i did laying on a bench leg curls one leg at a time using my wife as resistance (she would pull back on my leg while i curled up and down)

Over all i already feel this workout much more than just doing a few super heavy sets....


----------



## winger

Lois_Lane said:


> Hi buddy.
> 
> Yes OBVIOUSLY for a beginner getting strong with lower reps on compounds is priority number one.
> 
> Just for my self at my level of development going heavier and heavier just is too destructive to my body.....i rather not turn into JW we have all seen his body crumble from mega weights
> 
> So now i do different things for instance hamstrings today...
> 
> First i did lying leg curls by curling half way up then going back up followed by a full rep that was counted as one rep.
> 
> Then i did seated leg curl explosive positive with a 5 second negative while at the same time my wife pulled on the machine increasing the weight on the negative.
> 
> Then i did 1 legged leg curl with a light weight to total failure around 30 reps.
> 
> Then i did hyper extensions once i hit failure i would hold the contracted portion for as long as possible in a static hold.
> 
> Finally to finish off i did laying on a bench leg curls one leg at a time using my wife as resistance (she would pull back on my leg while i curled up and down)
> 
> Over all i already feel this workout much more than just doing a few super heavy sets....


I understand, trust me.

Because you picked hamstrings this is what I will comment on.

In my ever so humble opinion, I always thought hams respond better to lower rep ranges because of them being such an explosive muscle.

Agree, disagree?

I do see lots of negatives and such, and I do agree with hitting all the rep ranges with the different fibers of the muscle. So we are probably on the same page,

I also agree that going heavy for years does take it's toll and building a base is key to a big foundation.

If you just did hams only, then do you train every day?

Just wondering because between squats one day and deads another and throw in some bent rows and maybe some cardio, wouldn't the hams get enough work for us beta small guys?


----------



## Ninja

For me 4-6 range is the best. For deadlifts I use singles alot, it works all the time for me (Strength and body mass going up all the time). Running after weight session helps to develop slow twitch muscle fibres and that's how you get fully trained and also get more strength because of that. IMO COMPOUND MOVEMENTS MUST BE DONE TO FAILURE TO GIVE BEST RESULTS:beer:


----------



## MarkFranco

jay631 said:


> I like to mix it up
> 
> Keeps my body guessing


I have a problem with this and the whole "shock" your muscle thing

If you do a momvement at the same weight same rep for months and months, your body becomes acustomed

But if you allways adding weight/reps the body wont get used to it

Keeping it guessing and shocking it sounds stupid to me, like my friend suggested traning days i wouldnt usually so it shocks the muscle

Silly imo


----------



## winger

MarkFranco said:


> But if you allways adding weight/reps the body wont get used to it


Please explain how you can keep adding weight to the bar or adding reps because inquiring minds want to know.

When I stall I change exercises, or if I feel off and don't feel like I can add a rep to my personal best I have a lighter weight that I can do more reps with and still have a personal best with a lighter weight doing more reps.

I try my best to keep the body guessing so I can add more weight or reps.

Not having a go by any means, I just want to learn as much as I can and try to keep an open mind.


----------



## MarkFranco

winger said:


> Please explain how you can keep adding weight to the bar or adding reps because inquiring minds want to know.
> 
> When I stall I change exercises, or if I feel off and don't feel like I can add a rep to my personal best I have a lighter weight that I can do more reps with and still have a personal best with a lighter weight doing more reps.
> 
> I try my best to keep the body guessing so I can add more weight or reps.
> 
> Not having a go by any means, I just want to learn as much as I can and try to keep an open mind.


If I stall I will try again if I cant break through it over a few weeks I deload and start again... then deload again if you stall again... And so on

Then if that fails eat more and take more drugs

You said on days you dont feel "as well" you go lighter? I do the same, and days i feel "good" I will go heavier, I have a set routine but if think f**k it I wanna push my self today i will


----------



## LittleChris

People who like to 'mix it each session' are generally the ones who don't have a consistent training programme and don't like working hard to beat their previous weight and/or reps.

I go as heavy as I can, and try to get as many reps as I can. Sometimes maybe a triple, sometimes 15reps.


----------



## MarkFranco

I follow wendlers 5/3/1 but if after my last set i think I want to do that set again or i want to go heavier I will, if im feeling crappy due to whaetever reason i will just stick to the set and rep range as best I can.

Because Im allways adding weight I dont see how my body can get used to this way of training and I dont believe you can "shock" your muscles at all.

I think the whole shocking your muscles/keeping them guessing and changing your workout every 4/8/12 week business is a load of crap made up by magazines like Men Health.


----------



## Guest

its be proven that over time if you go with the more reps idea you will not only build the muscle you want but you will also build bone density i see this being the important part as if you dont have the bone density to lift the weight in the first place all the muscle in the world is not going to stop the bone snapping so going on this theory for beginner id start with more reps for the first year to allow the bone to get denser then after that switch to short reps with more weight well thats how i see it anyway :thumb:


----------



## Andrew Jacks

Personally I prefer the Dorian method of keep increasing the weight until failure, keeping @ 10 reps then trying to beat the mark set the following week.


----------



## The Ultimate Warrior

I can't be bothered to start getting into a discussion as this thread is too long already. But i'm glad that a few have mentioned some real truths.

Maximum hypertrophy will be achieved by taking the muscle to failure and then negative reps. Whatever rep range you do this in doesn't matter for size. BUT the reason it is done in shorter reps is it is less strain on the bodys energy systems and CNS and so on.

It all makes sense if anyone cares to read work by Arther Jones, Mike Mentzer and some information by Dorian Yates.


----------



## CoffeeFiend

Wow this is an old thread lol. I would think high would build endurance and heavy would build mass.. like benching 20kg for 200 reps.. you wont pack on much size but youll get a lot of endurance.. but to pack on size you need to lift something that actually puts you under strain kinda thing. The only high reps i thought people did was bodyweight stuff like press-ups, chins, pull-ups, dips those kinda things because you do them till failure and the weight your lifting is always constant and doesnt change.


----------



## eezy1

why not mix it up? its what ive started doing recently


----------



## big silver back

Different rep ranges recruit different fibres ,so the best thing is to recruit as many fibres in a workout as possible that means heavy and high reps. Works for me anyway.


----------



## Barker

bassline boy said:


> its not the guy who trains the hardest it the guy that diets the smartest


But the guy that does both will come out on top


----------



## seanmsimon

Google MAX-OT. Heavy 4-6 rep range. Compound excercises.


----------



## Leetflex

Heavy weight, 5 reps upper, 8 reps lower.


----------



## SkipsnQuips

It doesn't matter. Aslonas as there is increased tension/mechanical work, you will grow


----------



## davesurf20

My take - time under tension 40-70seconds. I like to follow Pak mans principle of 1-0-4-0 for rep timing, and hit around 10-12 reps. It forces you to go lighter though.

PAIN!


----------



## Robbiedbee

I mix it up. Sometimes heavy weight 4-7 reps, sometimes slightly lighter 8-12 reps.


----------



## Hendrix

Well I thought I would switch things up a little after seeing Tom Platz vid doing high rep squats for capillary growth leading to size growth, cant remember exact quote. So I tried deep breathing squats, using 10 rep max, then taking a few breaths, after 10th getting one more rep, then again and again all the way to 20.

I was lay in a heap after like a bag of offal. DOMS on there way and its going to be a killer mg:


----------

