# Going on...and staying on!!



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.

I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.

This decision is not 100%, but I'm going back on this week and seeing how things go, running hcg in case something changes my mind...although I don't think it will. Will be starting the following cycle tomorrow for 12 weeks then cruising on 250mg sus e10d after that:

1-12 600mg sustanon ew (WC)

1-12 450mg npp ew (ROHM)

1-6 80mg tbol ed (WC)

Aromasin starting at 12.5mg e3d

I would appreciate any input on this both on this cycle and from anyone who's also on for good or b&cing long term.

Cheers.

Stu.


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## GeordieOak70 (Sep 16, 2013)

Im sure ive read somewhere that its not good to mix anti d's with aas ? if you do go ahead with cycle I hope all goes well for you mate good luck and stay safe.


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

If you can why not? Costs and the factor of pinning all that time would get too me in the end I think.

But your right if its what requires you too feel confident then why not? Its most of peoples reason too do it on here im sure. After all I feel awesome on test!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

GeordieOak70 said:


> Im sure ive read somewhere that its not good to mix anti d's with aas ? if you do go ahead with cycle I hope all goes well for you mate good luck and stay safe.


There shouldn't be an issue from the research I've done mate. And cheers, I'm still a little nervous but looking forward to a happier life if all goes well.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Your choice but I think you just needed time and needed to address the cause of your depression, it's like you've been trying to justify going back on ever since you came off

You say your test isn't low enough to cause your symptoms but think more test will solve them?

We've spoken a few times as you know mate and I think you'll be the first to admit you struggled coming off

I'm not here to preach though, as I said, it's your choice.... But you're really not sure are you? You state you're going on and staying on then a couple paragraphs later you're not 100%, your depression needs addressing, not your testosterone levels IMO

At least your doc is willing to monitor you

Cycle looks good though, all the best :thumbup1:


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

bigchickenlover said:


> If you can why not? Costs and the factor of pinning all that time would get too me in the end I think.
> 
> But your right if its what requires you too feel confident then why not? Its most of peoples reason too do it on here im sure. After all I feel awesome on test!


Well money's not really an issue mate...and quite enjoy pinning tbh lol. I've been doing a lot of research and talked it through with a few guys and it just seems like I need to make this change in my life.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

bigchickenlover said:


> If you can why not? Costs and the factor of pinning all that time would get too me in the end I think.
> 
> But your right if its what requires you too feel confident then why not? Its most of peoples reason too do it on here im sure. After all I feel awesome on test!


Totally agree with this. Cheers BCL. Some people drink themselves to death for confidence, some spend thousands on plastic surgery etc. Best of luck and hope you pick up pal.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Your choice but I think you just needed time and needed to address the cause of your depression, it's like you've been trying to justify going back on ever since you came off
> 
> You say your test isn't low enough to cause your symptoms but think more test will solve them?
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right Hotdog, I did, and always do struggle coming off. This is because I know how I felt before starting aas and always know that coming off means going back to that. Don't get me wrong, I don't suffer from serious depression (although this last few weeks has been harder than ever before), but I've just always felt I lacked confidence and motivation before steroids came along.

I appreciate what you're saying mate but atm I'm holding on to my job by a very fine thread as a result of having time off and making some really bad mistakes as a result of having near zero concentration.


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

Hotdog147 said:


> You say your test isn't low enough to cause your symptoms but think more test will solve them?


This ^.

I'm not saying you shouldn't stay on, I just think it sounds like there must be some underlying issue (something you're surely aware of) that needs to be addressed? You shouldn't bury it with a load of AAS, problem with burying things is they never stay buried.

Either way I wish you all the best!

~M


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

When you cruise how long do you plan on cruising for


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mogy said:


> This ^.
> 
> I'm not saying you shouldn't stay on, I just think it sounds like there must be some underlying issue (something you're surely aware of) that needs to be addressed? You shouldn't bury it with a load of AAS, problem with burying things is they never stay buried.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the support mate. This is just something I feel I need to try for a better quality of life. I have decided to "cycle" with never much more than 1g aas for 12 weeks or less, cruise on as little as possible, and run hcg ew for at least the first year in case something happens to change my mind. It's basically an experiment which I will cut short if it doesn't work out as expected.


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## danefox (Oct 18, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.
> 
> I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.
> 
> ...


Your GP checked your TEST levels, but did he test your estrogen levels??

If your estrogen levels are too high, can't that cause major depression. I would at least have your GP check your levels before you make your final decision. At least you will be more informed. Good luck, and I hope you feel better.


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Thanks for the support mate. This is just something I feel I need to try for a better quality of life. I have decided to "cycle" with never much more than 1g aas for 12 weeks or less, cruise on as little as possible, and run hcg ew for at least the first year in case something happens to change my mind. It's basically an experiment which I will cut short if it doesn't work out as expected.


Is there an underlying thing though mate?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mark2021 said:


> When you cruise how long do you plan on cruising for


Minimum of 3 months mate. And although this cycle I'm about to start will be 12 weeks, that's only to put back on some size I've lost through not training and eating properly these last few weeks...my plan is to stick to short esters 8-10 weeks when cycling in the future.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mogy said:


> Is there an underlying thing though mate?


Not that I know of mate. I've got an amazing mrs, a good life and great friends. I just have, and always have had, this underlying depression/anxiety.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Fair enough

Tbh my plan is to cycle and cruise for now


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

danefox said:


> Your GP checked your TEST levels, but did he test your estrogen levels??
> 
> If your estrogen levels are too high, can't that cause major depression. I would at least have your GP check your levels before you make your final decision. At least you will be more informed. Good luck, and I hope you feel better.


That's a good point mate, although I doubt it, I always keep e well under control on cycle. Will ask doc when I go in tomorrow...got to pick up a script for some more nicotine patches.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mark2021 said:


> Fair enough
> 
> Tbh my plan is to cycle and cruise for now


Yeah? How long you been on for?


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

I've decided to go on & stay on too - though my reasons are age related. At 46 & with lowish test levels anyway, I think the whole PCT business will just be too much paddling upstream.

I'd tend to agree with some of the other comments here - the problems you describe are probably not caused by low test, so won't necessarily be solved by gear


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

stuey99 said:


> Yeah? How long you been on for?


Since the start of the year

Done 2 cruises in that time but this time in staying on for a 20 weeks cycle


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Hotdog147 said:


> Your choice but I think you just needed time and needed to address the cause of your depression, it's like you've been trying to justify going back on ever since you came off


Sometimes there isn't a cause. Depression doesn't have to be some mental thought which you can fix. It can simply be a certain lack of hormones in the brain (dopamine, serotonin etc) which cause depression even if everything in your life is great.

When this situation arises, there are two options. You either take SSRI anti-depressants (which increase serotonin in the brain) or if AAS works, you can do that instead. I've heard some unpleasant stories about anti-depressants making people feel numb and zombie-like, so if I were to choose one it would be test. It doesn't just make you happier, it makes you feel like more of a man.

I would probably stay on for good but the only issue is that I'm only in my mid 20's and I still fully intend on having kids.

I personally know exactly how stuey feels. Sometimes there's just no reason for it. Just like how organs within the body can sometimes go wrong (leading to illnesses and disease), the brain can also simply get wired wrong as well.

The mind is a very complex and quite frankly f**ked up thing. When I've had some depressive states I've been lying in bed and all I can think about is my family members dying. You literally cannot escape the thoughts. That isn't anything to do with issues in your life which you can fix. It's just the chemistry in your brain going wrong.


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## benki11 (Sep 17, 2010)

stuey99 said:


> After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.
> 
> I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.
> 
> ...


Thinking of similar thing , almost everything you wrote in here describe me at some degree

When I am on everything pitchy !


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Read this, page 5. I think you should seek an NHS solution for this, as having a level of 9.8nmols is low.

http://www.endocrinology.org/policy/docs/10-12-01_UK%20Guidelines%20Androgens%20Male.pdf


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.
> 
> I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.
> 
> ...


That's a good deal from your doctor also if you can get an ECG even if its 1-2 per year. With that and bloods I can't see any hidden problems cropping up undetected.

You can monitor bp at home.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

latblaster said:


> Read this, page 5. I think you should seek an NHS solution for this, as having a level of 9.8nmols is low.
> 
> http://www.endocrinology.org/policy/docs/10-12-01_UK%20Guidelines%20Androgens%20Male.pdf


Problem is I've now talked to 2 gp's who both insist that's a normal result mate. I don't actually think my problems are low t related tho latblaster. All I know is that when I'm on cycle I feel good and when not on cycle I costantly feel down. This was even the case in my teens and 20s.



stone14 said:


> That's a good deal from your doctor also if you can get an ECG even if its 1-2 per year. With that and bloods I can't see any hidden problems cropping up undetected.
> 
> You can monitor bp at home.


Yeah, seems like I've landed on me feet with my new gp, seems pretty liberal. Gonna get my feet under the table and see how much I can push my luck...might be able to get some good sh1t on prescription hahaha


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

GP = General Practitoner...I know you know this mate. The point is, they know a little about a lot.

9.8 is not 'normal'.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

latblaster said:


> GP = General Practitoner...I know you know this mate. The point is, they know a little about a lot.
> 
> 9.8 is not 'normal'.


Yeah I know mate lol. Remember I'm only 6 weeks out of a long cycle so that'll be why test's on the low side. Like I said, just don't want to have these depression problems anymore.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Yeah I know mate lol. Remember I'm only 6 weeks out of a long cycle so that'll be why test's on the low side. Like I said, just don't want to have these depression problems anymore.


You need to identify the cause of the depression.


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

I can relate to a lot, do what makes you happy mate, keep your gp informed. not sayings its the right way to go but its your body your mind do what is best for you and those around you.


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

Blasting & cruising makes much more sense than cycling anyways


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## Oscars (Jun 28, 2012)

I'm in the same boat...........but what has helped me no end has been proviron whilst off cycle, kept me happy and libido up! I suffer bad coming off but I feel much much better now, still can't wait to get bk on lol


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.
> 
> I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.
> 
> ...


stopping on has made a huge difference to my life mate, 250mg e10d for as long as possible  i spend more time on sust 250 e10d than i do cycling though


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## fastcar_uk (Jan 30, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.
> 
> I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.
> 
> ...


 Sounds good mate.

I finished a long sus and deca cycle earlier this year and just carried on cruising with 250mg of test e every 7-10 days. Best thing I ever did. Am STILL making gains, feel fine and look ok. I can't see my situation changing for the foreseeable future.

I'm 48 and tbh the cruise dose is enough to make me feel like carrying on with it without blasting.

Although this probably won't happen.

Anyway good luck with it all mate.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> There shouldn't be an issue from the research I've done mate. And cheers, I'm still a little nervous but looking forward to a happier life if all goes well.


i looked into this as im on paroxatine and found nothing mate, never had any issues from it over the years either tbh, good luck and enjoy your new life on test


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

I would honestly probably stay on at a cruise dose for life (even just being in my mid 20's), but the only issue stopping me is fertility.

Are there any remedies to this, or is years of cruise dosing likely to make me infertile even with HCG?


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> I would honestly probably stay on at a cruise dose for life (even just being in my mid 20's), but the only issue stopping me is fertility.
> 
> Are there any remedies to this, or is years of cruise dosing likely to make me infertile even with HCG?


After 4 years of being on with little hcg use i dropped sust to e14d and ran 500ius e3d for 3 months and bang , got a beautiful little girl.


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

I had the same symptoms you've described for years, got to the point where I didn't care if I woke up in the morning. Went to my GP several times over the years and after insisting that I had my test levels checked (higher than yours and still within "normal" levels) and they refused to help, apparently because I have facial hair I don't have low test problems so I went private to see an endo.

After a few blood tests which varied wildly but never dropping below the NHS guideline levels I insisted that I be put on gel for a 3 month trial to see if it helped. 6 months later and I'm like a different person, all of my symptoms have disappeared and I'd never even contemplate life without TRT. I've recently moved over to Nebido as the gel was a faff.

If your Dr is sh1te then insist on seeing an endo and go private, it might cost you £200 but you'll make that back by not having to buy your own gear for the rest of your life.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

GMO said:


> stopping on has made a huge difference to my life mate, 250mg e10d for as long as possible  i spend more time on sust 250 e10d than i do cycling though


This sounds like the best way mate...I might try like 10 weeks on cycle followed by 20 weeks cruise. How long you been on for? Any problems so far or advice you could give?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

GMO said:


> After 4 years of being on with little hcg use i dropped sust to e14d and ran 500ius e3d for 3 months and bang , got a beautiful little girl.


Wow!! So if I keep hcg up then could possibly stay fertile?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies of advice and support lads, it's really appreciated!! I'll be taking the plunge today (assuming the postie turns up with my goodies). Will keep this updated from time to time in case anyone's interested in my progress.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Yup, I'm interested to see how this goes...have blood tests every three months as well.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

I blast & cruise because i want to do it.. i dont believe for a second it's the best thing to do.. i don't try to justify it to myself i made my choice..

The main reason i do it is because i dont want to lose size/stay leaner it's as simple that.

My last blood test results haven't come in very good.. B&C is not healthy or better for you.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Wow!! So if I keep hcg up then could possibly stay fertile?


it would seem so mate, though ive not seen clinical proof but i tried it and it worked,


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> I blast & cruise because i want to do it.. i dont believe for a second it's the best thing to do.. i don't try to justify it to myself i made my choice..
> 
> The main reason i do it is because i dont want to lose size/stay leaner it's as simple that.
> 
> My last blood test results haven't come in very good.. B&C is not healthy or better for you.


what was your cruise dose and how long after cycle did you get bloods done, mate?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Totally agree with this. Cheers BCL. Some people drink themselves to death for confidence, some spend thousands on plastic surgery etc. Best of luck and hope you pick up pal.


To flip that around though, if he had made the decision he was going to start drinking 1/2 bottle of vodka a day I'm guessing you wouldn't have the same encouragement?


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

GMO said:


> what was your cruise dose and how long after cycle did you get bloods done, mate?


6 weeks after fast actors, cruising on 250 e10d now but it was has been higher.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

latblaster said:


> Yup, I'm interested to see how this goes...have blood tests every three months as well.


Can you give me a breakdown of the tests I'll need mate? My GP's happy to do them but not sure if he knows exactly which ones I'll need.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Dead lee said:


> I blast & cruise because i want to do it.. i dont believe for a second it's the best thing to do.. i don't try to justify it to myself i made my choice..
> 
> The main reason i do it is because i dont want to lose size/stay leaner it's as simple that.
> 
> My last blood test results haven't come in very good.. B&C is not healthy or better for you.


How long you been on mate? What was the problem with your tests?


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> This sounds like the best way mate...I might try like 10 weeks on cycle followed by 20 weeks cruise. How long you been on for? Any problems so far or advice you could give?


32 now been on since i was 25, doing similar to what your stating but have used more gear than planned already this year due to getting back into it from bad abscess once im back to were i was il prob not cycle for another 6 months or so, just stop on upper level trt. no real issues thus far other than abscess, no doubt my bloods wouldnt look to clever atm as im coming towards the end of a cycle but will go ask for check up in new year once i know things have had chance to settle,so far so good 

just use the bare min when cruising a sust e10-14d is ample imo mate.

note, i dont do heavy cycles either, rarely over a g pw for 12 weeks max


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

GMO said:


> 32 now been on since i was 25, doing similar to what your stating but have used more gear than planned already this year due to getting back into it from bad abscess once im back to were i was il prob not cycle for another 6 months or so, just stop on upper level trt. no real issues thus far other than abscess, no doubt my bloods wouldnt look to clever atm as im coming towards the end of a cycle but will go ask for check up in new year once i know things have had chance to settle,so far so good


So you started quite young then mate...you're still 3 years younger than me (I'm 35 in 2 days). I definitely think I'll do the same, maybe 2 10 week short ester cycles a year and cruise the rest of the time. Do you get check ups from your GP or private? What tests exactly do you get done?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

2004mark said:


> To flip that around though, if he had made the decision he was going to start drinking 1/2 bottle of vodka a day I'm guessing you wouldn't have the same encouragement?


Why, do you think a half bottle of vodka a day is a bad idea??? Was planning on using it to knock back by orals lol. No cheap sh1t tho...only Absolut will doooo!!!


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

All the best with this mate I know exactly how you feel!

I was going to suggest trialling trt but you have got a good deal with your doctor so seems like you are in good hands.

I am considering this also, I've been off 7 months, and have suffered severe depression. I'm exhausting every avenue first though, going to see a shrink soon. I've never been off this long and determined to stay off for a good 12-18 months so I can at least say I've given it my best shot to get better and feel normal without aas. Not saying you should also do this but it is an option.

I just think that until you can say you have exhausted every avenue first including waiting it out for a long period of time, then you shouldn't commit to a life of injecting.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> So you started quite young then mate...you're still 3 years younger than me (I'm 35 in 2 days). I definitely think I'll do the same, maybe 2 10 week short ester cycles a year and cruise the rest of the time. Do you get check ups from your GP or private? What tests exactly do you get done?


i was put in ssris when i was in my early teens and i believe this affected my test levels, my docs pretty cool, hes seen me through various issues, tbh i just go in tell him what ive been doing and tell him i want a check up he get a nurse to take bloods and i go back to see him when they come back and he tells me if anything needs attention, ive only been warned i need to keep my lipids better but that due to the paroxatine as much as the aas imo as its a common side of ssri's.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> 6 weeks after fast actors, cruising on 250 e10d now but it was has been higher.


when do you plan on getting checked again mate? another 6 weeks? you were running quite i strong cycle though wernt you mate? 100mg tren ed with extras,


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

stuey99 said:


> How long you been on mate? What was the problem with your tests?


Rbc, hemocrit, lipids , creatine the usual ones & low t4 as well.

Been b& c 3 yrs.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

GMO said:


> when do you plan on getting checked again mate? another 6 weeks? you were running quite i strong cycle though wernt you mate? 100mg tren ed with extras,


Not sure yet got another thyroid in two months so will check rbc & hemocrit then.

Iv seen much stronger cycles posted around here most are running more..

850 mg total gear PW but added 350 mg mast last couple of weeks.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Dead lee said:


> Rbc, hemocrit, lipids , creatine the usual ones & low t4 as well.
> 
> Been b& c 3 yrs.


So what can you do to fix them?


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Not sure yet vot another thyroid in two months so will check rbc & hemocrit then.
> 
> Iv seen much stronger cycles posted around here most are running more..
> 
> 850 mg total gear PW but added 350 mg mast last couple of weeks.


yeah some folk run some mental cycles these days, keep us posted how you get on mate,


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## MusclesBound (Jul 5, 2011)

Personally I think it's a bad idea.

1. Steroids don't cure depression.

-find out what the real cause is and deal with it. You'll be happier in the long run.

2. I don't agree with B&C

-unless you are a competitive athlete bridging between shows/competitions, staying on for the sake of staying on is detrimental to most peoples goals. Your body is not designed to stay on gear indefinitely. Your body is constantly trying to achieve homeostasis and will adjust to the gear thus limiting your gains. I'm very close friends with an IFBB pro and many top level amateurs as well as my own experience and none of them would recommend staying on. We all need a break to recover and then when you go back on you'll far exceed anyone that's stayed on.

This is just my opinion, as you asked for. Either way genuinely hope you sort your depression and make the right decision.


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## barb86 (Mar 14, 2012)

What you going to be cruising at? I think cycling is f*cking stupid as hell, progress for 8 weeks then go backwards for the next 8?? What sort of sport is that? Someone doing that for 3 years is going to end up with a heavily impaired hpta anyway.

Your test is really low as well, that could easily be causing depression, tiredness etc. Best thing you could do imo is get on doctor prescribed trt then run short (<6 week) blasts with whatever short estered compounds you want, at least get consistent blood work to make sure everything is in range


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

stuey99 said:


> So what can you do to fix them?


Dont B&C maybe 

Iv got a few ideas..


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

MusclesBound said:


> 1. Steroids don't cure depression.
> 
> -find out what the real cause is and deal with it. You'll be happier in the long run.


You just show a complete lack of understanding about mental health issues with this statement.

Depression doesn't have to have a mental issue. It doesn't need to have anything to do with problems in your life. You can simply be chronically depressed due to an issue with your brain. A lack of hormones like serotonin and dopamine. Sometimes it just isn't wired right.

It's still a physical ailment, just like an ailment in any other organ of the body. Thoughts aren't in some magical dimension. They're inside your head and they're governed by hormones and chemicals.

If your brain isn't producing enough of the right chemicals, then you can hit depression and nothing you do in your life will fix it. People can have great lives but still feel depressed without any reason whatsoever. At this point you have the option to take an SSRI (which floods the brain with more serotonin) or take something like higher testosterone which has been proven time and time again to relieve people of confidence, anxiety and depression issues.

If you have depression, and then higher levels of testosterone via steroids take that depression away, then the steroids have cured depression. Simple as that. The effect is powerful enough to take you down a completely different life path which is far more successful, rewarding and fulfilling. If you have chronic depression then you certainly won't be "happier in the long run" by failing to use the cure in-front of you and going through bouts of depression for the rest of your life.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Everyone worrys about test levels etc and not the real problems from staying on like your health..

If you fcuk your hpta from cycling gear you could always B&C....


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

His test isn't that low. 9.9 on a scale of 6-20 isn't that bad especially considering he's just a few weeks post pct from an 8 month cycle!!!


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> 6 weeks after fast actors, cruising on 250 e10d now but it was has been higher.


250mg every 10 days is quite a big dose, you know.

That's 175mg per week. An average human male produces around 50-70mg of testosterone per week naturally. Removing the ester weight it means that you could be doubling your natural test levels.

That sort of dose is fine for shorter periods, but I don't think it's healthy over a period of many years. If you're blast and cruising for that long then it might be worth dropping your cruise dose to more of a TRT level. Somewhere around 100-125mg per week. At least that would put your test levels at the upper end of the normal, healthy range.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> 250mg every 10 days is quite a big dose, you know.
> 
> That's 175mg per week. An average human male produces around 50-70mg of testosterone per week naturally. Removing the ester weight it means that you could be doubling your natural test levels.
> 
> That sort of dose is fine for shorter periods, but I don't think it's healthy over a period of many years. If you're blast and cruising for that long then it might be worth dropping your cruise dose to more of a TRT level. Somewhere around 100-125mg per week. At least that would put your test levels at the upper end of the normal, healthy range.


im sure iv seen some docs mainly in the USA get 200mg cyp e7-10d for trt,


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

The statement that if you're depressed & by taking Testosterone it cures it, is quite incorrect. It could very well just be masking the depression.

You really do need to find the cause of this depression.

The normal/therapeutic levels of Testosterone for men set by the British Endocrine Society are 11 - 30 nmols.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Deadcalm said:


> 250mg every 10 days is quite a big dose, you know.
> 
> That's 175mg per week. An average human male produces around 50-70mg of testosterone per week naturally. Removing the ester weight it means that you could be doubling your natural test levels.
> 
> That sort of dose is fine for shorter periods, but I don't think it's healthy over a period of many years. If you're blast and cruising for that long then it might be worth dropping your cruise dose to more of a TRT level. Somewhere around 100-125mg per week. At least that would put your test levels at the upper end of the normal, healthy range.


Im not that worried.. 250 mg will be fine for now il wait until my next test and see, like I said Iv got a few ideas to bring things back down.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

GMO said:


> im sure iv seen some docs mainly in the USA get 200mg cyp e7-10d for trt,


200mg every 10 days is borderline okay as that's still only 140mg per week. It's still well above natural testosterone production though.

Everyone's different, and some people may need that amount to have blood serum levels within normal range. 175mg per week for years and years seems too much to me though. That will almost certainly provide test levels well above the normal range and bring all of the health issues associated with it.

If a cruise is going to be done for years, then I say find a TRT dose which puts blood serum levels right at the top of the normal, healthy range.


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## MusclesBound (Jul 5, 2011)

Deadcalm said:


> You just show a complete lack of understanding about mental health issues with this statement.
> 
> Depression doesn't have to have a mental issue. It doesn't need to have anything to do with problems in your life. You can simply be chronically depressed due to an issue with your brain. A lack of hormones like serotonin and dopamine. Sometimes it just isn't wired right.
> 
> ...


Right I'm not going to dragged into a debate with you over this, this is why I generally try and avoid contributing to these sort of posts. People will only hear what they want to hear.

As for my complete lack of understanding about mental health... I have not claimed to be a doctor or a guru in the field. I'm giving my opinion from personal experience. I do think it's very inappropriate for you to be so generalist on a public board about such a complex matter that varies from person to person depending on a million different variables in that persons life.

Making a claim that simply increasing your testosterone levels will cure depression is ludacrous. What happens 6months down the line when that person is no longer feeling the effects of the gear?? And what about the 100's of vulnerable people, some of whom will be too young or unstable to cope with steroids who have now read your post and think jabbing some test is going to cure all there problems.

You should be more careful with how you word your posts and state your 'personal opinion'.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> The statement that if you're depressed & by taking Testosterone it cures it, is quite incorrect. It could very well just be masking the depression.
> 
> You really do need to find the cause of this depression.
> 
> The normal/therapeutic levels of Testosterone for men set by the British Endocrine Society are 11 - 30 nmols.


You have absolutely zero understanding of mental health issues then.

The ignorance of some people in this subject is absurd.

Hey, you've just been diagnosed with cancer. Why don't I take away all of your medication and then you can sit and 'think' yourself to a recovery?

Someone has hypothyroidism? Well goodness, stop taking the replacement hormones and just 'think' yourself into producing more naturally!

If the hormones in your brain are too low and cause chronic depression, you cannot think yourself out of it. There is no cause. It's an illness. It needs treatment. If testosterone solves the depression, then it's a cure. Simple as that.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> You have absolutely zero understanding of mental health issues then.
> 
> The ignorance of some people in this subject is absurd.
> 
> ...


I can assure you that I have a great deal of knowledge of MH.

You have obviously either misunderstood my post - couldn't be easier to comprehend, or you want testosterone to be the cure -all for depression.

Your post is not contributing anything positive. Take some time to rethink it.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

MusclesBound said:


> Right I'm not going to dragged into a debate with you over this, this is why I generally try and avoid contributing to these sort of posts. People will only hear what they want to hear.
> 
> As for my complete lack of understanding about mental health... I have not claimed to be a doctor or a guru in the field. I'm giving my opinion from personal experience. I do think it's very inappropriate for you to be so generalist on a public board about such a complex matter that varies from person to person depending on a million different variables in that persons life.
> 
> ...


Unless you have chronic depression, then you have no personal experience. Everyone feels down and gets depressed over bad times in their life, but they bounce back. There's an issue in their life they can resolve. When depression is a long-term illness, there is no issue to resolve. You can have a great life but still feel depressed to the point where suicide is an appealing prospect.

You're saying that people will "stop feeling the effects of the gear". Well they don't. Read back through this thread. There are a few people who have been on AAS for their mental wellbeing for years and years. It's pulled them out of depression and kept them out of it. Steroids don't just "wear off" for no reason.

If you're going to accuse me of generalising then perhaps you shouldn't be so hypocritical with comments like:



> 1. Steroids don't cure depression.
> 
> -find out what the real cause is and deal with it. You'll be happier in the long run.


Presuming that people with severe depression can just find a cause and "deal with it" is insulting and ignorant.

If someone has depression and anxiety for years and then starts taking AAS and it gets rid of the depression, then he's cured it. He's relieved himself of a life of pain and misery. Simple as that.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> I can assure you that I have a great deal of knowledge of MH.
> 
> You have obviously either misunderstood my post - couldn't be easier to comprehend, or you want testosterone to be the cure -all for depression.
> 
> Your post is not contributing anything positive. Take some time to rethink it.


You only have one life. If you have chronic depression then it's an illness you have to deal with. Yeah maybe you can lift it slightly and go through good patches, but it will always be there and continue to pull you down throughout your life.

Now let's say you have two paths in life:

Path 1 - Stay off AAS, deal with the depression and anxiety issues throughout the rest of your life when it surfaces.

Path 2 - Stay on AAS, rid yourself of the depression and anxiety and make yourself feel a more stronger sense of wellbeing than ever before.

If testosterone does rid people of their depression, then it isn't just 'helping' or 'masking'. It's completely transforming their lives. It rids them of their demons. It allows you to enjoy a COMPLETELY different and more rewarding life.

I'm speaking directly from experience here. I had a great family, great friends, great job and good health, yet I had severe depression and suicidal thoughts on more than once occasion. However, since doing steroids, it's transformed my mind. The demons are gone. I feel more right than I ever have before.

Testosterone might not cure everyone's depression. However, if someone tries steroids and it does, then it's something to seriously consider. Of course it isn't great and it's not completely healthy for you, but considering that you only have one life, you need to make that decision. And considering how awful depression can be and how it can lead to a miserable life overall, I think people with depression really deserve that option if they wish to take it.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Your reasoning is very flawed. It amount really to saying that if I have a pain in my leg then by taking pain relief it's cured the cause.

People can & do have long term depression & there is always an issue that's causing it. It might be a chemical imbalance, & it might also be an 'attitude' they have.

Depression in very many cases can be solved by CBT, for example.

You really must stop saying people are 'ignorant' simply because they don't agree with you.

Edit: re post# 74...Yes, if lack of testsoterone is actually the cause of the depression, but if it isn't then it will only mask it.

Taking a stimulant will very often make a person feel less or even not depressed. You are applying the same hypothesis.


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## MusclesBound (Jul 5, 2011)

Deadcalm said:


> Unless you have chronic depression, then you have no personal experience. Everyone feels down and gets depressed over bad times in their life, but they bounce back. There's an issue in their life they can resolve. When depression is a long-term illness, there is no issue to resolve. You can have a great life but still feel depressed to the point where suicide is an appealing prospect.
> 
> You're saying that people will "stop feeling the effects of the gear". Well they don't. Read back through this thread. There are a few people who have been on AAS for their mental wellbeing for years and years. It's pulled them out of depression and kept them out of it. Steroids don't just "wear off" for no reason.
> 
> ...


Lol, it's not 'simple as that'.

And I'm not being ignorant or insulting anyone. You're way to involved in this mate. Just because not everyone agrees with your point of view dosnt mean you have to attack those that say otherwise...

Yes I suffered very bad depression throughout my entire life up until about a year ago. I know exactly how it feels and the **** you have to go through. I also have many close friends who are depressed to different levels and using different methods to deal with it.

I stand by my original comment. You may never be completely rid of it but working out what triggers your depression and confronting it be it work, relationships, drugs, icecream etc. will help you cope with life and not do anything extreme. Taking chemicals to alter your mood is not a fix, it's a bandage over a wound.

We are only giving opinions to the op so show bother sides of the argument and help him make a better judgement call. Why do you feel like you must disagree so strongly with any opinion other that your own? Would you consider yourself a medical expert in this field? Have you treated and cured many patients??

Oh and telling me I have no personal experience without even asking me...that is insulting and rude.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> Your reasoning is very flawed. It amount really to saying that if I have a pain in my leg then by taking pain relief it's cured the cause.
> 
> People can & do have long term depression & there is always an issue that's causing it. It might be a chemical imbalance, & it might also be an 'attitude' they have.
> 
> ...


Depression can be cured by CBT, but it also can't. Plus, it's rarely ever cured completely. It's simply relieved slightly, but people still have to deal with it resurfacing throughout their life from time to time.

If someone has chronic depression with no life causes and a simply chemical imbalance in the brain (which high testosterone cures) then what exactly do you suggest that people do? Take an SSRI (a far less natural chemical)? Just "deal with it"?

The reason I'm calling people ignorant is because both of you have clearly never experienced chronic depression, and anyone with that illness would disagree with your viewpoints entirely. Suggesting that people with this illnesses should just "deal with it" and fix problems in their personal lives is ignorant and naive.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

MusclesBound said:


> Lol, it's not 'simple as that'.
> 
> And I'm not being ignorant or insulting anyone. You're way to involved in this mate. Just because not everyone agrees with your point of view dosnt mean you have to attack those that say otherwise...
> 
> ...


It is as simple as that. You have depression, you take testosterone, depression goes away. That's it. It's gone for good. Problem solved.

Once again, you assume that depression is due to some life issue which you need to fix. No one with true depression as an illness would say that because it isn't caused by anything in your life. It's a problem inside your head. A physical problem with chemicals and hormones. There doesn't have to be a trigger. There may have been a trigger with you, but that doesn't give you the right to dismiss solutions where people cannot "think" their way out of depression, claiming that they should just "deal with it".

People shouldn't have to "cope with life". They should be able to enjoy life free of their demons. If AAS achieves this, then it's a perfectly viable solution, especially when the alternative is a life of misery with no life issues to be solved.


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## MusclesBound (Jul 5, 2011)

I give up, before I get myself banned. It's like talking to a brick wall, a fuc***g stubborn brick wall!

As I originally said, some people will only hear what they want to hear, and for the record you know nothing about me or anyone else on this board so give the preaching a rest.

Op I wish you all the best. Let us know how you get on.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> *It is as simple as that. You have depression, you take testosterone, depression goes away. That's it. It's gone for good. Problem solved.*
> 
> .


This is bad advice.

If anyone reads this who has depression, do not take Testosterone to 'cure' depression. Get proper medical advice.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> This is bad advice.
> 
> If anyone reads this who has depression, do not take Testosterone to 'cure' depression. Get proper medical advice.


I didn't exactly word it right.

What I meant to say was this:

If you have depression, and you try taking AAS, and it DOES get rid of it, then you've found a solution and cure to your problem.

It won't cure all depression, but if it does rid you of your demons then you've found arguably one of the healthiest treatments around. SSRI's can get rid of depression but leave you feeling numb and emotionless. I know some people who have went on SSRI's and wanted to come off just so they can 'feel' something again.

Proper medical advice involves two stages:

Stage 1). Therapies like CBT and counselling.

Stage 2). If they don't work (which they won't if the depression isn't caused by a life issue), then you get put on anti-depressants. SSRIs. I can tell you now that I'd much rather have slightly higher levels of testosterone to rid me of my depression and anxiety than drugs like SSRIs.

If therapy doesn't work and you refuse to take a drug to cure the problem, then you live your life in misery. Simple as that.

The reason I'm such an advocate of this is that I know how powerful it can be from first-hand experience. No one deserves to live with severe depression. It's hell. For me, AAS has completely lifted that away and transformed my life.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

have not read all the posts but for some reason I am seeing some flawed things here.

Lets just put things into perspective, you are alive, you have air in your lungs, you have a brain to make decisions.

Decisions require action, and actions have consequences.

Life really is about choices, if you decide to make bad choices, the over the time the outcome will not be of favor.

If you make good choices in life, probably the outcome will be that of favor.

When my mother was dying of cancer and in some crazy pain, she said to me "Scott, if I could have just one good day, I would be ready"

I knew what she meant, and it crushed me to hear this, after all, that day was going to be better then the next day, and the day after that.

This hurt me, and made me cry.

A few months after her death, it hit me laying in bed: "I can have a good day". I realized it was a conscious decision to have a good day.

Knowing that it is a choice, it made things easier.

Like having a good day, happiness is not contingent on what you have, or purchase, it is a choice and comes from inside, not outside.

I find that the more I appreciate, the more I can appreciate, and the more I do this the more it happens.

You have no guarantees for tomorrow, and yesterday is gone, you do have NOW, and really if you think about it, not only is this a good thing, it is the only thing.

I like to try and make the most out of the day, and the moments because there is no guarantee that I will have anything else.

Some moments I have to remind myself to do nothing, and that is what I am supposed to do.

I think society teaches us that we have to push to get ahead and keep doing, when we are human beings, not human doings, and that being is probably the best tool for depression.

With the exception of a chemical imbalance I do feel mental health revolve around a lot of our perception, and the way we react.

You want to help yourself?

Go lift someone up, this lifts up self, don't ask me how, it just works.

No matter what your problems are, someone else will have the worse than you, only difference is the way he handle it, remember we can handle it the wrong way, or the right way.

Wrong way will further complicate things, the right way will set a path for better things.

Take a moment and smell the roses, they are there for you, and me to enjoy.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Some complete and utter tosh being posted in here today


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> SSRI's can get rid of depression but leave you feeling numb and emotionless. I know some people who have went on SSRI's and wanted to come off just so they can 'feel' something again.


I have experience of this. When I was in my late 20's, my business went under, my marriage broke up, and I found myself unemployable and doing loads of drugs.

I was perscribed SSRI's, and didn't like them. I felt that they made me numb & seemed to block out my emotions.

A few years later, after I had got my self sorted out somewhat, I had some fairly deep conversations with a friend of my (new) wife who's a counsellor & therapist. Her take on this was that many people who are experiencing depression also end up experiencing fairly wild mood swings, and the brain gets accoustomed to these swings & starts to regard it as normal.

When SSRI's start to work & rebalance the neurotransmitters in the brain, some people react against this. Deprived of the overstimulation of wild mood swings, and find a more normal & balanced brain state to be dull.

Another point that I clearly remember her making - mainly because it struck such a nerve - is that many people who are in a depressive state don't actually want to come out of it. They may think they do, but deep down, depression gives them a weird sort of security, and provides them with an excuse for not sorting their lives out.

"I can't do that - I'm suffering from depression." If I had a fiver for every time I said that to myself during the 1990's, I could probably have bought a new car. It became a stock answer to all those awkward questions, and relieved me of the responsibility of having to get stuff done.

Now - I've just started on Test, and I feel 10 foot tall right now, but I'm not so naive as to think that I'm going to feel like this for the rest of my life. I'm a naturally grumpy individual - my wife & son joke about it all the time & so do my workmates. In a few months I'm still going to be grumpy - just a bit bigger.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Now - I've just started on Test, and I feel 10 foot tall right now, but I'm not so naive as to think that I'm going to feel like this for the rest of my life. I'm a naturally grumpy individual - my wife & son joke about it all the time & so do my workmates. In a few months I'm still going to be grumpy - just a bit bigger.


I wouldn't be so sure. Plenty of people have stayed on higher doses and it's transformed their sense of wellbeing.

It doesn't mean that you need blast levels of test. Just more than usual. The upper range of average, if you will.

Hormones are hormones. Testosterone is the male sex hormone, responsible for all male characteristics. The more you have, the more it will work. That never really goes away.

I firmly believe that men who are more confident, assured and masculine naturally have higher levels of test.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

hackskii said:


> have not read all the posts but for some reason I am seeing some flawed things here.
> 
> Lets just put things into perspective, you are alive, you have air in your lungs, you have a brain to make decisions.
> 
> ...


Great post.

Believe me, I do agree with you. Everyone goes through heartbreak and bad times in their life. That is life.

However, we must bear in mind that, at the end of the day, our brain and our entire consciousness is just a one kilogram lump of jelly inside our heads. Our entire personalities, our thoughts and our feelings are just trillions of chemical and electrical reactions.

Thought is powerful, but we ARE governed by what our thoughts are, which is chemical and electrical signals. We've evolved to make dopamine and serotonin the key signals of happiness, wellbeing, reward and motivation. If the brain is deficient in these chemicals, there is absolutely nothing anyone can mentally do to change that. You will feel depressed, you will feel miserable and, in some cases (like mine) you will find suicide appealing to stop the emotional pain. If someone tries to out-think depression and prop themselves up, they are just kidding themselves. THAT is the plaster over the wound.

I just don't want people to underestimate the power of these hormones. They rule us, they ARE us, and manipulating them can transform our lives and literally wipe clean any demons like they never even existed.

It's a bit like hypothyroidism. If your thyroid gland isn't working correctly, you get put on thyroxine. Similarly, if your brain is deficient in feel-good chemicals, doctor's will put you on SSRIs to increase serotonin concentrations. However, myself (and many others) have found higher levels of testosterone to alleviate these problems and keep them at bay.

We need to look at the real, measurable results. If higher levels of test cure someone of ALL their depressive problems, then that's an amazing thing. It doesn't matter if people think it's a bandage over a wound. What difference does that make? On test the problems are gone.

Depression is hell, and whilst people can do whatever they wish with their bodies, I will absolutely explore a potential solution which not only takes me away from depression and anxiety, but swings me over to the other side of the spectrum and allows me to live a happy life free of the shackles of this illness.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, I can say for sure that I do not have high test levels, hell I only shave once a week.

But, one thing I do not lack is confidence, in fact I am so confident that some suggest it is arrogance, but that is only because they do not know me.

As many know I am an identical twin, and we both work together, walk into work together, talk on the phone before work together, talk during the day, and always bounce things off of each other.

Now sadly many won't have this luxury but he is a valuable resource for me, and my mind.

I can walk up and talk to anyone, I do not feel nervous around others, and do kind of pride myself on the ability to communicate, and can read people pretty well.

I always compliment others, and enjoy making others either laugh, or feel better.

I do not need steroids to make this work for me, I do not go to the gym to get big for the admiration of others, I don't buy flashy clothes to impress others, I do not buy expensive cars, or fast cars to impress others.

This nonsense of taking something to better self when self is right where it is supposed to be in my opinion is deception.

Why would I want to be anyone else than me?

Everything about me I accept for who I am, and have no issues with this.

Wishing for something, when you already have it, is not something I even would consider.

Had a tall guy say I was jealous of him because he is tall.

I said I could care less how tall he is, I was made this way for a reason.

He called me a liar.

Funny thing, the guy does not get alot with anyone, and I get along with everyone, suggesting I am jealous of him is pretty damn sad.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Deadcalm said:


> Great post.
> 
> Believe me, I do agree with you. Everyone goes through heartbreak and bad times in their life. That is life.
> 
> ...


I do hear you but let me pose a question first to you.

Does it make sense to treat the symptom, at the expense of the cause?

Thoughts are powerful.

Have you ever considered going to a calm place, using deep breathing exercises, lowering your breathing, getting very relaxed, and empty your mind of all thoughts, emotions, problems, issues, faults, and every feeling, and finding this place?

If you have not, then do so and come back and tell me you wasted your time with that.

Emptying the mind Buddhists call being mindfulness, because the brain strives from the ego to stay busy on crazy thoughts, emptying your mind allows for very deep thought, and really makes problem solving easy, not to mention giving some death to the ego.

Many think the ego is a good thing, and for some perhaps, but for others is a land mind, incapable of allowing rational thought about self.

Most people wont look in the mirror as they do not want to see the truth, nor want to fix that.

Others want to look in the mirror, see faults, the make a conscious effort to fix them.

Meditation increases brain function.

The mind is terrible of multitasking, and is almost always distracted.

If the car needs a tuneup, then give it one, you don't put nitrous oxide on it to make it perform better, you give it a tuneup as this is what it needs.

Cart before horse I am seeing.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

hackskii said:


> I do hear you but let me pose a question first to you.
> 
> Does it make sense to treat the symptom, at the expense of the cause?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately we are limited by what we can do. SSRI's are the most advanced depression treatment we have, yet they don't fix the issue of the brain failing to produce enough serotonin. They simply inhibit the uptake so more serotonin is left in the brain.

Similarly, we can't cure hypothyroidism by making the thyroid produce more thyroxine. We just have to supplement it. A lot of hormonal issues are treated in the same manner. Sometimes, some organs just don't work properly and we can't fix them outright.

What you say applies to depression where there are issues in a person's life. I know a woman who separated from her husband of 20 years and had to go on antidepressants to deal with it. However, I also know of people who have fantastic lives without any issues, yet they are chronically depressed due to organs failing to work correctly. You couldn't fix their depression by working out life issues because there are no life issues.

For all of the thoughts and mental tasks we can do (and believe me, I've tried them all as you've mentioned above), the simple fact is that certain neurotransmitters ARE our thoughts and feelings, and they completely control how we feel. It isn't a mental issue, it's a physiological one. It's akin to trying to treat the fatigue of hypothyroidism by simply thinking yourself into having more energy. At most, all you can do is pretend.

We only have one life and it's very short, so we need to look at the nitty gritty of the situation. If you are chronically depressed due to chemical imbalances in the brain, and find that higher levels of testosterone completely cures you of these demons and helps you to live a far happier and more fulfilling life, without any major health problems (providing the dose isn't too high), then why not? I simply ask why not. It's an escape from a life of severe emotional pain on a silver platter.

It doesn't just hide the emotional pain, or mask it, or dim it, it's literally gone. I can attest to that first hand.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

In fourth paragraph you say that you cannot think yourself better. To a certain extent that is true.

Next time you have a difficult task to do & the first thought in your head is something like: "phew gotta to do (whatever) & it's really gonna tire me out"

Replace that thought with another & tell yourself the task may well be challenging, but you'll get it done & you'll feel ok.

Try it, it does work. We can change our thoughts & by doing so we create new neural pathways in our heads.

Lastly, we are so much more than just a collection of Minerals & Chemicals. If that were the case we'd all be the same.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

From another board, this guy is my fav



marianco said:


> The "activating" phenomenon of SSRIs may occur as a result of:
> 
> 1. the increase in serotonin (which over time helps improve adrenal function - and energy), or
> 
> ...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Deadcalm said:


> Unfortunately we are limited by what we can do. SSRI's are the most advanced depression treatment we have, yet they don't fix the issue of the brain failing to produce enough serotonin. They simply inhibit the uptake so more serotonin is left in the brain.
> 
> Similarly, we can't cure hypothyroidism by making the thyroid produce more thyroxine. We just have to supplement it. A lot of hormonal issues are treated in the same manner. Sometimes, some organs just don't work properly and we can't fix them outright.
> 
> ...


If this were true, they would be using testosterone to treat chronic depression, which they do not.

I am not aware either that supra-physiological doses of testosterone increase seratonin, and is more better if none is actually needed?

I know over time supra-physiological doses of testosterone will create some bad things in men, and adrenal burnout, compromised lipid profiles, and many issues can occur.

I know you are passionate about your position, but its almost like you are looking for a reason to take steroids and using depression to support your use/abuse.

Not a dig but it just smells funny in my nostrils, and really does not make a lot of sense to me.

I have low levels of testosterone but within range, and they are only in the upper 300's (320-960), why is it with such low levels I am one of the happiest guys I know, and do not suffer from depression, nor anxiety?

Beings that depression is not treated with testosterone, I fail to see the correlation, and in fact some testosterone converts to DHT which is a CNS stimulant and some get anxiety issues.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> In fourth paragraph you say that you cannot think yourself better. To a certain extent that is true.
> 
> Next time you have a difficult task to do & the first thought in your head is something like: "phew gotta to do (whatever) & it's really gonna tire me out"
> 
> ...


Believe me I'm a big advocate of the mental strength we have. It's why I work out.

However, the simple fact is that all our thoughts and emotions boil down to chemical and electrical reactions. They are your consciousness and they govern it.

And you say that we are so much more than a collection of minerals and chemicals, but we really aren't. I know people like to believe that the human consciousness is some esoteric spirit, but almost 100% of the human body is just oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium and phosphorus atoms. They obviously combine to make incredibly complex molecules, proteins and cells, but there's no denying that we're governed by the chemicals in our brain and how they are balanced.

These electrical and chemical signals don't just control our emotions, they are our emotions. It seems rather bleak but it's true.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

There is so much more to our life, our consciousness than a soup of chemicals etc. Are you familiar with Descartes...the mind/body experience, dualism?

From past experience I know that there is little point in progressing this subject on the forum.

I mean well when I say this, read around the subject of existence & consciousness.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

hackskii said:


> If this were true, they would be using testosterone to treat chronic depression, which they do not.


And I honestly do not understand why that is. People in this very thread have been on higher-dose TRT for years and it's transformed their lives.



> I know you are passionate about your position, but its almost like you are looking for a reason to take steroids and using depression to support your use/abuse.
> 
> Not a dig but it just smells funny in my nostrils, and really does not make a lot of sense to me.
> 
> I have low levels of testosterone but within range, and they are only in the upper 300's (320-960), why is it with such low levels I am one of the happiest guys I know, and do not suffer from depression, nor anxiety?


Believe me I do not want to take a testosterone shot every week for the next 50 or 60 years. I really don't. I'm going to try coming off at the end of my cycle and do a strong PCT to recover to see how I feel.

I'm really hoping that my emotional wellbeing remains with me so I don't have to keep going. However, if it goes away and the depression and anxiety returns, then I have two clear options.

1). Stay off AAS, deal with my chronic depression issues and tolerate them (I really don't want to take SSRIs).

2). Go back on AAS for life, at a fairly high TRT dose (giving me very high but within range serum levels) and maintain this sense of security and wellbeing inside myself.

If it boils down to this decision, I will have absolutely no hesitation in going on AAS. I don't do it to feel bulletproof or invincible, I just do it to rid me of my demons and give me that normal sense of wellbeing, which it does. The difference in how I can live my life is really incomprehensible.

I don't know how it works, all I know is that it does work, and that's all that matters to me.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> There is so much more to our life, our consciousness than a soup of chemicals etc. Are you familiar with Descartes...the mind/body experience, dualism?
> 
> From past experience I know that there is little point in progressing this subject on the forum.
> 
> I mean well when I say this, read around the subject of existence & consciousness.


It really depends what you believe in.

Neuroscience and physics tells us that our mind is indeed just a soup of chemicals and electrical signals far more complex than we imagine.

The other train of thought is much more esoteric in nature and involves supra-natural forces, souls and so on.

You're free to believe what you wish, but if you believe the latter then we're obviously never going to agree on the extent in which neurotransmitters influence our mind and emotions.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Have you ever had a MH assesment for your Depression?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> It really depends what you believe in.
> 
> Neuroscience and physics tells us that our mind is indeed just a soup of chemicals and electrical signals far more complex than we imagine.
> 
> ...


Are you suggesting then that some things don't have an Organic basis then??? That does surprise me.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

latblaster said:


> Have you ever had a MH assesment for your Depression?


Yes. Full assessments. Months of CBT. All sorts.

I don't think it's usually as clear-cut as depression or no depression. Everyone has some insecurities, and whilst I think some of my anxiety is born out of clinical depression, some of it is also born out of some issues in my life.

CBT assisted with those, and it helped to some degree.

However, the depression is still very much there and can rear it's ugly head at any time. When you're lying in bed and you can't stop thinking about family members dying you know that your brain is really just not wired right.

It's funny talking about this because I haven't felt any depression whatsoever in months due to being on cycle for 14 weeks. It feels like a different person. It hasn't really sank in yet that I could come off and it could all come flooding back. I'm certainly going to try (as I said, I don't want to be on TRT for the next 50 years), but it's a scary prospect.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Good luck in sorting yourself out mate.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Deadcalm said:


> Believe me I'm a big advocate of the mental strength we have. It's why I work out.
> 
> However, the simple fact is that all our thoughts and emotions boil down to chemical and electrical reactions. They are your consciousness and they govern it.
> 
> ...


In bold would be part of the problem from where I am sitting.

I do not hold this opinion with you, and if I did, I would be depressed too, quantum physics change all these dynamics and what likely is happening here is the placebo effect.

Using placebo's when doing trials on anti-depressants suggests that placebo works just as well as the drugs they are testing.

I know we are all connected, and we only see a fraction of what is really doing on all around us.

We only see 20% of the light spectrum so much of what is not seen is there.

There have been many studies on stuff like this that science can not figure out, yet it is reality.

I take time every day to make peoples day at work, and their mood changes, they dont need drugs, they may need hugs, I give them that, even a smile can change ones day.

No way in hell I buy that we are just carbon, water, chemicals, that makes no sense to me, just like it makes no sense to you that by our thoughts we can change our lives.

When I am happy at my home, everyone is happy, when I am unhappy, everyone is unhappy, we influence all around us and many do not even realize, nor notice this.

When I meditate many times my dog would want attention, and do would my daughter, I found that strange that when I am doing nothing they would want my attention.

Gee, sitting on the ground, eyes closed, legs crossed, flowing and here they come.

If it happened once, I would suggest that is ok, twice well coincidence, but almost every time?

Hmm

So, if it is just chemicals what is going on?

Am I emitting some vibration that is one of welcome?

Some life force perhaps?

Hell, I don't know but it happened so much I noticed it.

So, I go outside now:lol:

Again, I would be depressed to if I thought we were just a bunch of chemicals, shoot, I know you don't want sympathy but I kind of feel sorry for you now, not in a way of saying that but this does send a bit of insight to the problem IMO.

But, I am no doc, have no relevant education, and just a older man sharing his perspective.



latblaster said:


> There is so much more to our life, our consciousness than a soup of chemicals etc. Are you familiar with Descartes...the mind/body experience, dualism?
> 
> From past experience I know that there is little point in progressing this subject on the forum.
> 
> I mean well when I say this, read around the subject of existence & consciousness.


I am all ears mate, all ears.

I myself don't share a lot of things because if I do, people will think I am more of a nutter than I really am:lol:



Deadcalm said:


> Yes. Full assessments. Months of CBT. All sorts.
> 
> I don't think it's usually as clear-cut as depression or no depression. Everyone has some insecurities, and whilst I think some of my anxiety is born out of clinical depression, some of it is also born out of some issues in my life.
> 
> ...


In bold.

Why do you do this?

I can tell you this is not a wiring issue, this is your mind trying to play tricks on you via way of the ego.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm very scientific, so I don't really believe much in more esoteric and spiritual things. Neuroscience has shown great evidence that all of our thoughts, feelings and emotions are just highly complex electrical impulses.



hackskii said:


> Why do you do this?
> 
> I can tell you this is not a wiring issue, this is your mind trying to play tricks on you via way of the ego.


I can't control it. I try to distract myself and my brain pulls my focus back towards it. It flashes images in front of you and you literally cannot escape the thoughts.

It sounds bizarre, but that's just how messed up the brain can be sometimes.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Deadcalm said:


> I'm very scientific, so I don't really believe much in more esoteric and spiritual things. Neuroscience has shown great evidence that all of our thoughts, feelings and emotions are just highly complex electrical impulses.


Ok, being scientific should raise some suspicion on why this may be happening right?



Deadcalm said:


> I can't control it. I try to distract myself and my brain pulls my focus back towards it. It flashes images in front of you and you literally cannot escape the thoughts.
> 
> It sounds bizarre, but that's just how messed up the brain can be sometimes.


I would suggest if you spend much time in this place you will spend even more time here, and then spend even more time here.

Probably not the best place to lounge our thoughts.

I could tell you stuff that would blow your mind from first hand experience.

I have seen first hand a guy I work with put himself in a bad place in his mind and stay there.

I mean, sure that is ok to visit there, but not set up camp and call it home.

I do feel we attract much of what it is we dwell on, good or bad.

Man, too many "I's" in my post....lol


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Deadcalm....read the above post.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I think its fine to run trt, to self admin correct trt doses or for a gp to prescribe it is exactly the same whether you have a working hpta or not.

I'd still have proper time off (on trt) cycle between cycles tho ie:

12weeks on cycle

12weeks trt

not

20weeks on cycle

4week trt

and repeat sort of thing lol.

Maybe not the best idea to use it as a cure for your depression, finding the root cause would be better, but its your life and you only live once so if you can be sensible about aas use and it makes you feel better then go for it.

Jmo.

Maybe your depression is a confidence, low self esteem or self image thing? If aas makes you feel better, I know aas gives me more confidence mentally and from self image.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Ok, just to take this thread back from all yous bickering...I just want to make it clear that I am doing what I feel could really be a positive step in my life!! @hackskii @stone14 @latblaster (just to name a few), you know I really value all of your opinions and hackskii, you especially have helped me through some really hard times...especially through me doing power pct last year. However I would really appreciate if you all just supported me through what has been a very, very hard decision for me, rather than just bickering amongst yourselves. This would really mean alot to me.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Ok, just to take this thread back from all yous bickering...I just want to make it clear that I am doing what I feel could really be a positive step in my life!! @hackskii @stone14 @latblaster (just to name a few), you know I really value all of your opinions and hackskii, you especially have helped me through some really hard times...especially through me doing power pct last year. However I would really appreciate if you all just supported me through what has been a very, very hard decision for me, rather than just bickering amongst yourselves. This would really mean alot to me.


It's not bickering really, it's actually quite interesting to read mate and is very relevant to you tbf...


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> It's not bickering really, it's actually quite interesting to read mate and is very relevant to you tbf...


No you're wrong on this on this one Hotdog. There's one camp argueing aas can't help depression and another argueing the opposite. How does this help me? I've already stated categorically that aas DOES help me. Constructive advice on how I can do what I'm doing properly and safely would be really appreciated at this point...if anyone has any advice like this I would be really grateful??


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> No you're wrong on this on this one Hotdog. There's one camp argueing aas can't help depression and another argueing the opposite. How does this help me? I've already stated categorically that aas DOES help me. Constructive advice on how I can do what I'm doing properly and safely would be really appreciated at this point...if anyone has any advice like this I would be really grateful??


Aw man, what ever you decide to do, I will fully support you, and that means anything.

Mental health is one of my favorite discussions, I just got lost in the moment.

If at any time you would like some help with anything, just ask buddy.

i am here to learn just like everyone else.

Just stay away from 2 grams of tren a week, it tends to make some dude nuts:lol:


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> No you're wrong on this on this one Hotdog. There's one camp argueing aas can't help depression and another argueing the opposite. How does this help me? I've already stated categorically that aas DOES help me. Constructive advice on how I can do what I'm doing properly and safely would be really appreciated at this point...if anyone has any advice like this I would be really grateful??


How does it help you? It gives you both sides POV, which is surely a good thing?

Do you not notice the people who say it massively helps depression all B&C?...... You think this couldn't just be a way of justifying ones usage to self maybe?

If testosterone cured depression do you not think it would be more widely known about?

To do it safely, you just need to get regular bloods and ECG's and monitor BP etc...

Just a quick question.... Do you feel ok when you cruise? And at what dose?


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Put it this way Stuey, I also have depression and anxiety issues and I know EXACTLY where you're coming from and now you feel.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone who has disagreed with it so far happen to be those who don't suffer from reasonless clinical depression.

It's too hard to put across really. I don't think anyone fully understands unless they experience it.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Hotdog147 said:


> How does it help you? It gives you both sides POV, which is surely a good thing?
> 
> Do you not notice the people who say it massively helps depression all B&C?...... You think this couldn't just be a way of justifying ones usage to self maybe?
> 
> ...


The problem is the way medicine works. Doctors all get educated in the same subject and rarely ever innovate or differentiate. They can't use patients as guinea pigs, so their only solution are very expensive studies which would have to be self sponsored.

How often have we seen doctors and specialists who don't stray from the norm even in the face of self medicated evidence? They see a problem and diagnose it with the relevant drug. Depression gets anti depressants, low testosterone gets TRT and so on.

There's simply never likely to be much movement on it in the Professional sense. There are people in this thread who have self medicated with test and cured their depression and anxiety for years and years. But who is likely to listen in the medical field? Who would use their patients as guinea pigs? No one.


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

My interest is in the people who decide to self administer a drug for the next 40 years, and how are they going to feel later on down the road especially if it being administered for reasons other than low test levels.

I am facing a big decision like stuey but for some reason I just don't believe that a drug administered for the rest of my life is going to make me feel better permanently. Maybe it will, I don't know, I just can't see it. Seems to good and too easy to be true. I really hope it is true for the people suffering however.

People talk on here like you just slam a drug into yourself and that's it, job done, feel good and that's how it's always going to be.

It just makes me wonder.

If find it pretty sad and depressing that it has to get to this stage and having to go into the unknown ( I don't mean that to sound patronising either as I'm getting to this stage also)


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

We use a lot of drugs/ hormones for there 'wanted' side effects that arnt the reason they were created for, for example womens cancer drugs.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Aw man, what ever you decide to do, I will fully support you, and that means anything.
> 
> Mental health is one of my favorite discussions, I just got lost in the moment.
> 
> ...


Cheers Hackskii that means alot. I possibly got a little over emotional last night...the mrs took me out for a birthday meal and we over did the champagne a little lol. I'm not intending using any high doses mate, gonna be as sensible as possible. Plan is to cruise at least 50% of the time and cycle using no more than 1g total aas.



Hotdog147 said:


> How does it help you? It gives you both sides POV, which is surely a good thing?
> 
> Do you not notice the people who say it massively helps depression all B&C?...... You think this couldn't just be a way of justifying ones usage to self maybe?
> 
> ...


I understand what you're saying Hotdog and I've got no idea how this is gonna work out but feel it's something I need to try. And you say that the only people who say it helps are those who b&c...well surely they're the only people who are really qualified to say whether it helps? I feel great cruising at 250mg a week, but will try 250mg e10d as that's a more sensible cruise dose. High doses make me feel sh1t and cause me nothing but trouble so when cycling doses will be kept fairly low as well.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Deadcalm said:


> Put it this way Stuey, I also have depression and anxiety issues and I know EXACTLY where you're coming from and now you feel.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone who has disagreed with it so far happen to be those who don't suffer from reasonless clinical depression.
> 
> It's too hard to put across really. I don't think anyone fully understands unless they experience it.


It's scary mate. One day I'm fine and the next I just feel like...well, I can't actually put it into words tbh. People seem to think you need to have something to be depressed about but it's not like that. At my low moments I'm not low because of something sad or worrying in my life...I just feel depressed and can't explain why!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

John Andrew said:


> I have been cruising and blasting the last 6 years and used 2 years before that! To be honest i know I have let the last blast run too long and now I will cruise 2 months. I was supposed to be 8 weeks on then 2 weeks off. I have now decided to make it 8 weeks and 4 weeks just on Test C 250 mgs / week. Too many of my blasts included Tren E. Now I have the longer rests I do not think this will be a problem.
> 
> My Psychiatrist in Australia knows what I do, he also knows that as an alcoholic anti depressants make me suicidal. His final advice to me was that I am an extreme person by nature and enjoy the roller coaster ride. He says under no circumstances take anti depressants and that being strong is good for my mental well being! My doctors here agree!
> 
> We all look for the answer we want, but as a 58 year old man I am happy and getting stronger! Good luck mate! Lets live all we can. love all we can and have a ball! Regards John


Thanks for that mate, really encouraging!! I find that when using aas it creates a positive cycle in my life...it's not necessarily a case of the steroids themselves making me feel better. When on I bounce out of bed and hit the gym hard...this makes me feel good and creates a positive start to my day. I feel stronger and more focused...this creates a confidence and a determined attitude to life that otherwise I would not have. I don't for one second believe that steroids are a "cure" for depression, but I know that they give me the ability to pull myself out of a downwards spiral...and to me this is just as good as a cure!!


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Ok..so if you think that taking Test is really going to help, then make sure that you do it all properly. Injection technique, sterility, & ofc a reliable & good supply.

Regular blood tests, eat good food, go to the gym...all the basics really. And remember, that more is not better.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Can someone tell me what would be the lowest cruise dose that would keep me happy and healthy as well as keep gains? Would 250mg sus e14d be enough? @hackskii @hotdog @stone14??


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2013)

150mg test e is a great cruise dose imo


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

latblaster said:


> Ok..so if you think that taking Test is really going to help, then make sure that you do it all properly. Injection technique, sterility, & ofc a reliable & good supply.
> 
> Regular blood tests, eat good food, go to the gym...all the basics really. And remember, that more is not better.


 That's the plan mate. I've recently given up smoking and only drink on special ocassions and on holiday. I have an excellent source, and will be cruising using pharma sus (will 250mg e14d be enough?).

As I said latblaster, I don't feel that test is actually a cure, but it does create a positive vibe and outlook that enables me to pull myself out of depression. I don't have all the answers and I don't know how this is going to end, but I feel optimistic just knowing that I am trying to take a positive step in my life.

Had my first jab of 250mg sus/200mg npp yesterday with 80mg tbol and I'll turn this thread into a sort of log to let people know how I'm getting on.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

shotgun said:


> 150mg test e is a great cruise dose imo


Was intending using pharma grade for cruising, but suppose I could use half a ml ROHM test hep 300 once a week instead?


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## rumbaba (Oct 2, 2012)

You do what you fell is best for you at the moment. Nothing is written in stone and if later on down the track you change your mind you can always come off. People go for years on worse stuff than a cruise dose of test, Keith Richards is living testament to that.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2013)

I use pc 150mg week and all negative effects go but strength is still up and so is weight.hope this helps mate


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

shotgun said:


> I use pc 150mg week and all negative effects go but strength is still up and so is weight.hope this helps mate


Yeah big help mate, cheers. Want to keep cruise dose as low as possible and using a good ugl will work out cheaper than pharma. You on for good shotgun?


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Yeah big help mate, cheers. Want to keep cruise dose as low as possible and using a good ugl will work out cheaper than pharma. You on for good shotgun?


it certainly looks that way.ive been on 2 long to stop now,pct would be hell and I dnt need the anxiety and stress o it all


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> Can someone tell me what would be the lowest cruise dose that would keep me happy and healthy as well as keep gains? Would 250mg sus e14d be enough? @hackskii @hotdog @stone14??


For me on 250mg test'e or sust I feel a drop in energy, libido at around 12days so I have my 250mg e10-12days, 1sdays is too long for me days 12-14 I can defo feel a drop.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

stuey99 said:


> Was intending using pharma grade for cruising, but suppose I could use half a ml ROHM test hep 300 once a week instead?


300mg test ew isn't trt its way above.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

stone14 said:


> For me on 250mg test'e or sust I feel a drop in energy, libido at around 12days so I have my 250mg e10-12days, 1sdays is too long for me days 12-14 I can defo feel a drop.


I'm thinking 150mg test e once a week might be better, should keep blood levels more stable and avoid test dropping too low? Would have to use a ugl tho, but ROHMs pretty reliable so should be ok with that.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

stone14 said:


> 300mg test ew isn't trt its way above.


Half a ml a week's 150mg tho bud.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

shotgun said:


> it certainly looks that way.ive been on 2 long to stop now,pct would be hell and I dnt need the anxiety and stress o it all


I think if your cycling aas through the year and plan on many years to come then trt is a better option then pct (most of the time).

Having weight and hormones repeatedly yo-yo can't be good.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Just remember to cruise a lot more than blast. Your cruise will still give you quite high levels of testosterone, and then you add to that with incredibly high levels during your blasts. If you're doing this for say, the next 30 years, you could spend 15 solid years total on very very high levels of test and other compounds which bring the side effects of overusing.

If I do go down the same path as you ill probably use a slightly higher than TRT dose most of the time and then just do a 14 week cycle once or twice a year. Quite a number of years of that would probably make me bigger than I'd ever want to go anyway.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I dose 250mg Kefie Sust e10...& I feel good on that. Which lab you using Stuey?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

latblaster said:


> I dose 250mg Kefie Sust e10...& I feel good on that. Which lab you using Stuey?


Will probably be Zafa mate. Tempted to go with 150mg ROHM test hep once a week tho, although I do prefer the idea of using pharma. What's your view on this?


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Kefie is supposed to be Pharma...some will disagree, but I've found it to be very smooth.

As I'm putting something in my body - maybe for a long time, I try to get the best I can.

Have read alot of good stuff about Zafa Test on here recently.


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Will probably be Zafa mate. Tempted to go with 150mg ROHM test hep once a week tho, although I do prefer the idea of using pharma. What's your view on this?


Defo pharma if you can mate.

See how you get on with an amp E14D.... Can always reduce the time between jabs if need be

Are you planning on cycling first? Maybe be a good idea to give the cruise dose a try for a coupe months first to get your bearings?


----------



## Guest (Nov 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> I think if your cycling aas through the year and plan on many years to come then trt is a better option then pct (most of the time).
> 
> Having weight and hormones repeatedly yo-yo can't be good.


I totally agree with this post mate,ialso believe that doing regular pct causes more harm than good


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

stuey99, if while on your cycle you feel a bit down, blast me a PM, I am pretty good at helping guys without judging, picking on them, telling them what to do, it probably will end up with a laugh too.

If every any one of you guys want to talk, vent, or say hi, please do.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Defo pharma if you can mate.
> 
> See how you get on with an amp E14D.... Can always reduce the time between jabs if need be
> 
> Are you planning on cycling first? Maybe be a good idea to give the cruise dose a try for a coupe months first to get your bearings?


You're prob right Hotdog, will stick to pharma. I'm sure e14d will be enough, after all it's still way more test than we produce natty and can always increase to e10d if necessary. I'm cycling first bro, jabbed 250mg sus/200mg npp yesterday. I get your point about cruising first but feel like I really wanna put some size back on. I've lost ALOT of weight since coming off!!



hackskii said:


> stuey99, if while on your cycle you feel a bit down, blast me a PM, I am pretty good at helping guys without judging, picking on them, telling them what to do, it probably will end up with a laugh too.
> 
> If every any one of you guys want to talk, vent, or say hi, please do.


Cheers Hackskii you're a top man!! Will definitely take you up on that. I'm still really nervous about my decision and it's not one I've taken lightly, so a bit of help and reassurance might be invaluable from time to time. I'm getting married in 7 months to an amazing woman and want us to start our new life together on a positive note. I've made alot of wrong turns in my life and made alot of bad decisions but everything has changed since I met her. I'm hoping the decision I've made this week will at last be the final piece of the puzzle.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeh defo pharma so u know garanteed your getting the full dose (aslong as its not fake pharma lol)


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

a zafa e10ds with 10mg aromasin e3d is a good starting point mate, some times i go down to e14 days but if i start feeling a bit low i up it e10d again for a bit then lower it again i feel im over doing it, i aim to feel normal/happy with life, not on cycle alpha male while trt/cruising , dont forget a bit hcg and ai to run along side just in case you want to come off at a later date,test has worked wonders for me mate.. good luck


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

GMO said:


> a zafa e10ds with 10mg aromasin e3d is a good starting point mate, some times i go down to e14 days but if i start feeling a bit low i up it e10d again for a bit then lower it again i feel im over doing it, i aim to feel normal/happy with life, not on cycle alpha male while trt/cruising , dont forget a bit hcg and ai to run along side just in case you want to come off at a later date,test has worked wonders for me mate.. good luck


Cheers mate!! You think I'll still need an ai while cruising then? Def gonna keep up the hcg at 1000iu a week.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

yeah mate, even trt scripted folk often get adex to manage oestrogen , i run 10mg aromain e3d when cruising and find it deffo helps my state of mind for the better


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## cockerpeter (Oct 16, 2011)

I use test e all year 'cruising' at 250 a week then blast with 500 to gain when i want to i use arimadwx every other day! Confidence is fine, the boy works well very well!! Jndeed.

I hate coming off aas. Im 41 and feel 21. I look and feel good all the time.

Been 3 years now!!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

cockerpeter said:


> I use test e all year 'cruising' at 250 a week then blast with 500 to gain when i want to i use arimadwx every other day! Confidence is fine, the boy works well very well!! Jndeed.
> 
> I hate coming off aas. Im 41 and feel 21. I look and feel good all the time.
> 
> Been 3 years now!!!


Nice one!! Do you get regular blood tests mate? Any problems so far?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Had second jab of sus/npp yesterday and mood seems to be inproving. Don't know if this is a placebo effect or coincidence or what...but whatever it is I'll take it lol.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Had second jab of sus/npp yesterday and mood seems to be inproving. Don't know if this is a placebo effect or coincidence or what...but whatever it is I'll take it lol.


It's probably because you know how AAS can make you feel and you know that it's the start of a journey free of your demons.

I know that's how I'd feel.


----------



## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Had second jab of sus/npp yesterday and mood seems to be inproving. Don't know if this is a placebo effect or coincidence or what...but whatever it is I'll take it lol.


Mood improvement should be one of the first signs. I noticed it a couple of days after my first shot.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Mood improvement should be one of the first signs. I noticed it a couple of days after my first shot.


I notice my voice changes as they start to hit me, then the libido.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

hackskii said:


> I notice my voice changes as they start to hit me, then the libido.


Not noticed any voice changes - though I've already got quite a manly baritone.

Libido on the other hand - by 'eck. It's like being 17 again.

I'm full of a cold, yet last night I caught myself looking at Zoe Ball on telly & thinking 'she's quite cute when she smiles'


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

2004mark said:


> To flip that around though, if he had made the decision he was going to start drinking 1/2 bottle of vodka a day I'm guessing you wouldn't have the same encouragement?


No.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well mood is def improved and seem to have more drive /energy. Still feeling some anxiety tho but it's early days yet. No voice changes yet tho @hackskii lol.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Feeling pretty fvcking good now!! Energy is back and the fog seems to have lifted. Feel extremely focused and have finally got my head out my ar5e and back on training. Doing a nice simple push/legs/pull routine, 3 on 1 off, tomorrow's workout will be as follows:

Db bench press 12/10/8

Db incline press 3x10

Decline press 3x10

Db flyes 3x10

Db shoulder press 3x10

Lateral db raises 3x10

Skullcrushers 3x12

Tricep dips 3x15

Posted a thread earlier asking how long it took to feel the effects of tbol as hadn't felt anything...but since posting I'm starting to feel that jittery feeling I always get when an oral kicks in...just gotta play the waiting game now for the sus and npp. Starting to wish I'd gone with prop now lol.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Other training days will be:

BACK

Lat pulldowns 12/10/8

Db rows 12/10/8

T bar pulldowns 12/10/8

Seated cable rows 12/10/8

Db shrugs 4x12

Upright barbell rows 12/10/8

Barbell curls 4x12

Preacher curls 3x12

LEGS

Squats 12/10/8/6

Leg press 12/10/8

Leg extensions 3x10

Ham curls 3x10

Seated calf raises 3x10


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm doing the same mate, I'm 43 I work in a gym as a PT, been off for a while and gradually losing muscle, and confidence. When I looked more like a bodybuilder I was literally tuning clients away, also struggle like mad putting any size on at the moment due to the amount of cardio classes I'm obliged to teach during the week. Being quite ecto anyway it's like running uphill on sand. Am only planning to go up to 500mg during cycles and cruise on around 150/250mg will still take hCG for same reasons as you, I don't want more kids anyway. I also am prone to depression, mainly caused by over worry, the test defo helps me, so just another reason to stay on. Good luck dude


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Hendrix said:


> I'm doing the same mate, I'm 43 I work in a gym as a PT, been off for a while and gradually losing muscle, and confidence. When I looked more like a bodybuilder I was literally tuning clients away, also struggle like mad putting any size on at the moment due to the amount of cardio classes I'm obliged to teach during the week. Being quite ecto anyway it's like running uphill on sand. Am only planning to go up to 500mg during cycles and cruise on around 150/250mg will still take hCG for same reasons as you, I don't want more kids anyway. I also am prone to depression, mainly caused by over worry, the test defo helps me, so just another reason to stay on. Good luck dude


Cheers mate. Yeah I'm the same, 6'4" and naturally skinny so always a nightmare holding onto muscle when off cycle. I won't be going over 1g aas on sycle but don't think I'll need to as it will be much easier holding onto gains when cruising. I'm only 10 days in and already feeling much, much better. Keep in touch bro, let me know how things are going.


----------



## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

I hear ya mate, and I will keep you posted, glad it's going well for ya


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Quick update. Had 4th shot of 250mg sust/200mg npp yesterday, feeling great and strength is up in the gym so all good there. One problem tho...sex drive is still really poor!! Been taking 12.5mg aromasin e3d from start of cycle so doubt it's estrogen, and also have no signs of gyno. Popped a viagra last night and hammered away at the mrs for half an hour but could not ejaculate. I'm thinking maybe this could be down to high prolactin, but not sure if npp could raise prolactin this quickly (less than 2 weeks)?? Have started caber today, but some input from some of you guys on this would really be appreciated. Cheers.

@Mars @hotdog @hackskii @stone14


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Glad your feeling better mate. That's a good training plan too, I'm doing almost the exact same plan. Also thinking of going on and staying on too, I'm rapidly loosing my marbles and want to try some test to see if it helps. I'm now at the point of nearly loosing everything and its really pushing me towards going on!


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

Oscars said:


> I'm in the same boat...........but what has helped me no end has been proviron whilst off cycle, kept me happy and libido up! I suffer bad coming off but I feel much much better now, still can't wait to get bk on lol


Off cycle how much proviron do you take?


----------



## Oscars (Jun 28, 2012)

Jas said:


> Off cycle how much proviron do you take?


25mg a day........works a treat


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

JR8908 said:


> Glad your feeling better mate. That's a good training plan too, I'm doing almost the exact same plan. Also thinking of going on and staying on too, I'm rapidly loosing my marbles and want to try some test to see if it helps. I'm now at the point of nearly loosing everything and its really pushing me towards going on!


Yeah I was getting to the stage where it was really affecting my work, was like I was in a constant fog and couldn't concentrate properly. Feel much sharper now, energetic and confident!!


----------



## nightshiftboy (Apr 26, 2011)

Hi mate,

Excellent thread, I've been refraining from posting as I didn't want to start ranting about depression, seems a lot of people have a lot of views on it. I know your reasons through our PM's and I'm glad you've stuck to your guns, from one fella whose been through it all and lived to tell the tale I can honestly say you won't regret it.


----------



## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Yeah I was getting to the stage where it was really affecting my work, was like I was in a constant fog and couldn't concentrate properly. Feel much sharper now, energetic and confident!!


man of steel feeling lol


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nightshiftboy said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> Excellent thread, I've been refraining from posting as I didn't want to start ranting about depression, seems a lot of people have a lot of views on it. I know your reasons through our PM's and I'm glad you've stuck to your guns, from one fella whose been through it all and lived to tell the tale I can honestly say you won't regret it.


Cheers buddy, yeah talking to you really helped me make my mind up. Feel great atm, and just got back from a big job interview which went really well...went in full of confidence which I couldn't have done a few weeks ago. Only problem now is low sex drive.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

shotgun said:


> man of steel feeling lol


Exactly mate, love it!! Head's held high again and life is good!!


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

The biggest worry for me going on trt be it self administered or not is long term libido issues. I have none now anyway but couldn't live like this forever. It worries me that I may loose it on trt and then have no other way to turn.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

good, im glad.i too are on forever,not going thru that pct garbage.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

shotgun said:


> good, im glad.i too are on forever,not going thru that pct garbage.


You got any ideas on why my sex drive hasn't picked up mate? You reckon it's too early to be down to prolactin?


----------



## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

are you running an ai?these have a lot to answer for in my eyes


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## nightshiftboy (Apr 26, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Cheers buddy, yeah talking to you really helped me make my mind up. Feel great atm, and just got back from a big job interview which went really well...went in full of confidence which I couldn't have done a few weeks ago. Only problem now is low sex drive.


Excellent news about the interview. As for sex drive hopefully the Caber will solve that. You using HCG on cycle? As you know from my other thread, i didn't bother but when I finally tried it, everything amplified, specially sex drive. But I think you're right with the prolactin theory, especially with the inability to cum, that's got prolactin written all over it for me.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

shotgun said:


> are you running an ai?these have a lot to answer for in my eyes


Yes mate, 12.5mg aromasin e3d


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Yes mate, 12.5mg aromasin e3d


that could be the culprit,if it doesn't pick up in a week,maybe drop it and let estro build up a bit


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nightshiftboy said:


> Excellent news about the interview. As for sex drive hopefully the Caber will solve that. You using HCG on cycle? As you know from my other thread, i didn't bother but when I finally tried it, everything amplified, specially sex drive. But I think you're right with the prolactin theory, especially with the inability to cum, that's got prolactin written all over it for me.


Yeah I'm using hcg mate. Def think it's prolactin, was just unsure whether it could rise that fast within 2 weeks of starting the npp.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Sex drive is starting to pick up since dropping the aromasin and decided to replace tbol with dbol. Feeling great tho!! Working out much earlier than normal (7.30) due to work commitments so not having time for a full meal pre workout (would normally have 6 scrambled eggs and 100g porridge 2 hours before the gym. Anyway, I've started having a protein shake with 75g instant oats 1 hour pre w/out. Any opinions on this? Thinking it's maybe not enough or should possibly have a couple of bananas instead of the oats??


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well, took a massive step back yesterday. Been feeling great for a few weeks now but had a massive anxiety attack and shakes at work last night and had to come home!! It's a new job as well, so the stress of not passing probation is just adding to my problems...having a right cvnt of a manager giving me grief as well isn't helping either. Wouldn't mind so much but he's just hiding behind his position and the fact he knows I'm on probation...wouldn't have the balls to look at me sideways outside of work!!

Anyway, fluoxetine dose has been doubled so hopefully things will pick up. Definitely feel more energetic and confident in myself, and put that down to the test...just gotta get over this fvckin stress at work and things will hopefully improve.


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## nightshiftboy (Apr 26, 2011)

What's your job if you don't mind me asking?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nightshiftboy said:


> What's your job if you don't mind me asking?


Cut and crease operator. Most won't know what that is tho lol...basically I operate heavy machinery in the printing trade. Been great for the last few weeks bro, but last night it all went t1ts up. Before I started the test I was making loads of mistakes at work, but the juice seems to have me much more focused. Just had a massive panic attack last night...was awful!! Really worrying about my job now which is just making things worse!!


----------



## nightshiftboy (Apr 26, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Cut and crease operator. Most won't know what that is tho lol...basically I operate heavy machinery in the printing trade. Been great for the last few weeks bro, but last night it all went t1ts up. Before I started the test I was making loads of mistakes at work, but the juice seems to have me much more focused. Just had a massive panic attack last night...was awful!! Really worrying about my job now which is just making things worse!!


I'm in the print industry too haha. I had a hunch we did something similar.

As you know I kicked Anti D's but still have the occasional tremble when faced with a scary ordeal, I got some beta blockers off the docs to take as and when anxiety strikes. As he explained a lot of pop stars, stage actors and snooker players pop one before an event to take the edge off. It's better taking something as and when rather than taking something everyday that you might not need. Just something for you to consider.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nightshiftboy said:


> I'm in the print industry too haha. I had a hunch we did something similar.
> 
> As you know I kicked Anti D's but still have the occasional tremble when faced with a scary ordeal, I got some beta blockers off the docs to take as and when anxiety strikes. As he explained a lot of pop stars, stage actors and snooker players pop one before an event to take the edge off. It's better taking something as and when rather than taking something everyday that you might not need. Just something for you to consider.


Haha, so we both work in the same industry, both suffered from depression, both on test for life and both getting married next year...this is starting to get a bit scary lol. Tbh, I think the anxiety is triggered by this new job. I was one of the best operators at my old company and loved my job (well liked it anyway). This depression has caused me to start making stupid mistakes in this new job and I'm now stressed to fvck when I go in cos I know if I make any more mistaked my job is at risk!! I'll look into the beta blockers mate...just really disappointed now as I thought I'd cracked it these last few weeks.


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## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

@stuey99 how did you get your doctor to monitor bloods and accept your drug addiction? I have a feeling most wouldn't waste nhs money on people like us. Genuine question would love avoid paying privately if I could. Thanks


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> @stuey99 how did you get your doctor to monitor bloods and accept your drug addiction? I have a feeling most wouldn't waste nhs money on people like us. Genuine question would love avoid paying privately if I could. Thanks


What drug addiction??


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## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

stuey99 said:


> What drug addiction??


Steroids mate.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> Steroids mate.


I'm addicted to steroids?? Well this is certainly news to me...but thanks for the heads up bro.


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## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

stuey99 said:


> I'm addicted to steroids?? Well this is certainly news to me...but thanks for the heads up bro.


Was a genuine question thanks for answering :/

If I read this thread correctly you want to stay on test forever because it makes you feel confident


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> Was a genuine question thanks for answering :/
> 
> If I read this thread correctly you want to stay on test forever because it makes you feel confident


Not a problem...thanks for calling me a drug addict. Try asking your GP. It ain't rocket science, he's either gonna say yes or no.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> Was a genuine question thanks for answering :/
> 
> If I read this thread correctly you want to stay on test forever because it makes you feel confident


Well no that's not what I'm doing so you either haven't read the thread properly or you're just not the sharpest tool in the box. Either way you're obviously just a stuck up little pr**k trying to have a dig...so why don't you toddle off now like a good boy.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

@GMO @nightshiftboy apparently we're drug addicts boys...lol


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## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

How long have you been using the flux ssri mate?

I was using anti depressants a couple of years ago and it did not agree with me at all.

I was put on flux and it had shocking side effects for me.. feeling like sh1te..headaches bad vision etc also feeling nervous alot.

So was using sertraline i found that the best (don't know if you have tried it) after 6 months using it I weened myself off dropping the dose to 20mg eod then 10 eod then every 3 days.

I can safely say it is alot better without using anti ds! I felt numb and no emotion hardly whilst using them.

Just to add ED and difficulty blowing your load is a common side effect of ssri meds mate


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

darren.1987 said:


> How long have you been using the flux ssri mate?
> 
> I was using anti depressants a couple of years ago and it did not agree with me at all.
> 
> ...


Been using it for about 5 weeks now. Feeling loads better but tbh I'm putting that down to the test (addiction lol) rather than the prozac. I think I'm gonna stick with em for a couple months then drop them once they've picked me up a bit. And yeah, I've noticed those side effects...even the juice hasn't helped!!


----------



## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm not going to reply anymore obviously you're in emotionally state right now which is why you're so sensitive. I guarantee most people will know what I meant by what I said, it was clear that I use testosterone and just wanted guidance on how to get my doctor to monitor my drug use to ensure my health isn't at risk because most are against it.. Most people will happily admit once they use any form of steroids there's a slight addiction to stay on but keep denying it and good luck.


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## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

Yeah my gf also was tried on prozac and apparently it is the worst ssri for side effects.

Just remember if the ejaculation issue doesnt improve with dropping the ai it may well be the fluxotine!

Also dont know if your aware.. You can get viagra or cialis from the gp as you are on anti depressants.

You have to be in certain 'categories' to get them on nhs but I do know being on anti depressants is one for sure.

As ed and ejaculation issues are 100% related to all the ssri meds


----------



## Proteen Paul (Apr 6, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Your choice but I think you just needed time and needed to address the cause of your depression, it's like you've been trying to justify going back on ever since you came off
> 
> You say your test isn't low enough to cause your symptoms but think more test will solve them?
> 
> ...


Another quality post mate. Nicely put.

:beer:


----------



## nightshiftboy (Apr 26, 2011)

darren.1987 said:


> Yeah my gf also was tried on prozac and apparently it is the worst ssri for side effects.
> 
> Just remember if the ejaculation issue doesnt improve with dropping the ai it may well be the fluxotine!
> 
> ...


Totally agree with you there about the ssri and ED. I was on Seroxat then Flux and went through hell with ED at a young age, sneaking Viagra into me behind my mrs back cos I was so ashamed. Sorry Stuey I can't believe I never twigged earlier when you mentioned your low sex drive etc.

although cialis and Viagra were prescribed by my doc, they weren't free. £40 for 4 tabs of cialis, can't Remember why they weren't subsidised, I was using all day chemist long before I touched a roid just for their Tadacip (generic cialis)!

As you know though Stuey, AAS enabled me to kick an 11 year dependence on SSRI's so all of those issues are a distant bad memory. As for the drug addict comment, was a but flippant but the guy missed the point that your depression was not caused by coming off AAS hence the need to go back on.


----------



## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

nightshiftboy said:


> Totally agree with you there about the ssri and ED. I was on Seroxat then Flux and went through hell with ED at a young age, sneaking Viagra into me behind my mrs back cos I was so ashamed. Sorry Stuey I can't believe I never twigged earlier when you mentioned your low sex drive etc.
> 
> although cialis and Viagra were prescribed by my doc, they weren't free. £40 for 4 tabs of cialis, can't Remember why they weren't subsidised, I was using all day chemist long before I touched a roid just for their Tadacip (generic cialis)!
> 
> As you know though Stuey, AAS enabled me to kick an 11 year dependence on SSRI's so all of those issues are a distant bad memory. As for the drug addict comment, was a but flippant but the guy missed the point that your depression was not caused by coming off AAS hence the need to go back on.


Yeah thats right. But when I was at the doctors he also said id have to pay 28 for 4-6 tabs of viagra.

But said that was because I am not in the correct category now ( I was off the ssri meds) so I believe that was why I couldnt get them for free as I was not on anti d's I weened myself off with the gp approval and it was best thing I did not having to rely on a tablet to feel normal


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nightshiftboy said:


> Totally agree with you there about the ssri and ED. I was on Seroxat then Flux and went through hell with ED at a young age, sneaking Viagra into me behind my mrs back cos I was so ashamed. Sorry Stuey I can't believe I never twigged earlier when you mentioned your low sex drive etc.
> 
> although cialis and Viagra were prescribed by my doc, they weren't free. £40 for 4 tabs of cialis, can't Remember why they weren't subsidised, I was using all day chemist long before I touched a roid just for their Tadacip (generic cialis)!
> 
> As you know though Stuey, AAS enabled me to kick an 11 year dependence on SSRI's so all of those issues are a distant bad memory. As for the drug addict comment, was a but flippant but the guy missed the point that your depression was not caused by coming off AAS hence the need to go back on.


Yeah I think it's def the flux causing me problems. I've had sex drive problems caused by estrogen in the past and this just feels totally different. Although I'm surprised the test isn't overriding the flux sides? I wonder if @hackskii can shed any light on this?

I've had a couple of bad days where the depression seems to have crept back in but I'm feeling good again today...but I suppose these ups and downs are to be expected as my body gets used to the changes. Stress at work isn't helping either, hopefully I'll get the job I interviewed for last week and everything will fall into place.


----------



## MUFC 20 (Nov 19, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> After alot of thought, research and lengthy pm discussions with a few guys on here, I've decided to go on and stay on, for good. This has not been an easy decision but I struggled with depression and confidence problems throughout my childhood and 20s, just putting on a confident front, and never sought any medical help. This all ended when I found aas in my mid/late 20s and when I started my first cycle I suddenly found the confidence and happiness I had always wanted. Me and the mrs do not plan on having kids, and I've talked to my gp who although does not agree with my decision, has agreed to give me a check up and do bloods every 6 months.
> 
> I've been on and off for a few years now, feeling terrible whenever I went through pct and had time off...but this time it's worse. I've just been prescribed fluoxetine (anti depressant) by my gp as I'm sleeping all the time, have no concentration and feel fatigued and very depressed. This is not just pct blues, as test levels are 9.9nmol (range 6-20) which I don't believe is low enough to cause this.
> 
> ...


Good luck with it mate, what ever suites you best I am just about to try 6 months on have always used pct. See how I go hopefully get some good results.


----------



## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Just remember that SSRIs and testosterone won't make you invincible. Everyone, no matter how confident, can get severe panic and anxiety if pushed right outside their comfort zone. It's normal, so don't feel like you're taking steps back if it does happen.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

theres known links between most antidepressant medication and Ed /delay problems , most AD's have them listed as a side effect.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Deadcalm said:


> Just remember that SSRIs and testosterone won't make you invincible. Everyone, no matter how confident, can get severe panic and anxiety if pushed right outside their comfort zone. It's normal, so don't feel like you're taking steps back if it does happen.


This is exactly what's happening mate. I'm fine at home and in the gym but at work I get very anxious!! Been making lots of stupid mistakes due to the depression (I'm normally very good at my job) and had extra pressure put on me by my boss who has even started giving me disciplinaries despite the fact he knows what problems I'm having. These disciplinaries are just putting extra pressure on me and causing more anxiety!! Tbh if I didn't have a wedding to pay for in 6 months I'd probably tell him to stick his job but it's just not an option atm.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

John Andrew said:


> Mate,
> 
> I have run this way the last 4 years, now i am 58. I did not cruise enough , always wanted to be stronger so make sure you do cruise at just low levels Test C. Depending on what you use have Hcg always available, Bromocriptine, Novlodex, ai's.
> 
> ...


Why do you think I should drop the anti depressants John??


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

If the antidepressant are helping you continue to take them , saying stop them because they *could* make you suicidal is silly.


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

latblaster said:


> The statement that if you're depressed & by taking Testosterone it cures it, is quite incorrect. It could very well just be masking the depression.
> 
> You really do need to find the cause of this depression.
> 
> The normal/therapeutic levels of Testosterone for men set by the British Endocrine Society are 11 - 30 nmols.


In many cases depression is caused by low serotonin. This can be linked / caused by many things, such as the dull uk weather. How much better do people feel who are not on any testosterone cycle, in the summer, lots of people do including me.

People particularly have suffered from depression in the UK, as far back as winston churchill .Its well reported his depression was severe in the morning, but improved mid-afternoon onwards.

There are a lot of thing's going on here in the UK - many people fighting over the same job, companies outsourcing offshore, job cuts, energy price rises, cost of living up, low wages.

These problems or living conditions don't go away when you go on a cycle, but from reading these posts people feel less worried about them or their particular issues.

I personally don't people should stay on gear all year round, and they should try to improve their life if it is possible, but everyone has their own choice to make for themselves.


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

hackskii said:


> If this were true, they would be using testosterone to treat chronic depression, which they do not.
> 
> I am not aware either that supra-physiological doses of testosterone increase seratonin, and is more better if none is actually needed?
> 
> ...


Must be that warm weather in California, scott.


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

bigchickenlover said:


> If you can why not? Costs and the factor of pinning all that time would get too me in the end I think.
> 
> But your right if its what requires you too feel confident then why not? Its most of peoples reason too do it on here im sure. After all I feel awesome on test!


I'm 24 and suffer the same exact issues as the OP when off cycle. Do you think if I ran HCG (as I do want children in the future) it would be safe enough to blast and cruise indefinitely?

I'd rather die in my 50s than live to 100 feeling depressed and lacking confidence.


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

latblaster said:


> In fourth paragraph you say that you cannot think yourself better. To a certain extent that is true.
> 
> Next time you have a difficult task to do & the first thought in your head is something like: "phew gotta to do (whatever) & it's really gonna tire me out"
> 
> ...


I use positive thinking to get me in the mood for the gym. Yesterday I was the happiest I can remember being in a very long time because I was so hyped up over shoulder day - my favourite day by far, and the new PBs I was trying. Kept telling myself the progress I'm making is great and soon I can be happy with myself.

I've tried it for everyday aspects of my life, and found it doesn't work for me. For example, I used to tell myself it won't be long before the right girl comes along and to just stay positive - it never happens. Same with job applications, I tell myself I'm perfect for the job, try my hardest and honestly think I'd be great at the job - but never hear anything back.

There's only so much positive thinking can do when life just throws your efforts back in your face.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Jas said:


> In many cases depression is caused by low serotonin. This can be linked / caused by many things, such as the dull uk weather. How much better do people feel who are not on any testosterone cycle, in the summer, lots of people do including me.
> 
> People particularly have suffered from depression in the UK, as far back as winston churchill .Its well reported his depression was severe in the morning, but improved mid-afternoon onwards.
> 
> ...


what you are talking about is called seasonal affective disorder , take D3 (the sunshine vitamin) or buy one of the natural light lamps , as for 'in many cases depression is caused by low serotonin ' , is not actually correct - there are many neurotransmitters involved and psychiatrists think serotonin is involved , its not a certain and is why antidepressants dont work on many people.


----------



## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

Whatever anyone says, whether its for or against continual gear use, its your body and your life.

Take care of yourself, get regular checks, and do what you need to do to keep yourself healthy and happy. One life, live the f*cker I say.


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

aqualung said:


> what you are talking about is called seasonal affective disorder , take D3 (the sunshine vitamin) or buy one of the natural light lamps , as for 'in many cases depression is caused by low serotonin ' , is not actually correct - there are many neurotransmitters involved and psychiatrists think serotonin is involved , its not a certain and is why antidepressants dont work on many people.


Its well known low serotonin causes many cases of low to severe depression. As for why some medicine's are not working for some people, depends how long they take them for. Some people don't take their medication as prescribed, and use anabolic steroids instead to cure their depression.


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

JR8908 said:


> My interest is in the people who decide to self administer a drug for the next 40 years, and how are they going to feel later on down the road especially if it being administered for reasons other than low test levels.
> 
> I am facing a big decision like stuey but for some reason I just don't believe that a drug administered for the rest of my life is going to make me feel better permanently. Maybe it will, I don't know, I just can't see it. Seems to good and too easy to be true. I really hope it is true for the people suffering however.
> 
> ...


I agree a lot with what you say. If people were constantly using them, staying on, for a competitive edge like a athlete I could relate and truly understand. But today I don't know why people are staying on. If your job is too difficult, too stressful, then your out of your depth. People are spending 8 plus hours at work, 8 hours as asleep, and then some relaxing time at home or out with friends.

I actually was surprised this thread was started, as it gives many the belief, especially youngsters in their teens and twenty something, when their naturally creating enough test a week anyway, should they decide a cycle, then don't come off.


----------



## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

aqualung said:


> If the antidepressant are helping you continue to take them , saying stop them because they *could* make you suicidal is silly.


 It's not the fact of stopping them. Its how you go about it by tapering down on AD

Family members of mine have just gone cold turkey and it was hell for them and they had to go back on as they felt they could not cope without them.

If you do it right and gradually taper down over 2-3 months possibly even longer. I did it over a 2-3 month spell, I felt 10x better. And as I gradually reduced the dosage I could see how suppressing the AD were actually making me feel.


----------



## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Whatever else you do, run hcg.


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

darren.1987 said:


> It's not the fact of stopping them. Its how you go about it by tapering down on AD
> 
> Family members of mine have just gone cold turkey and it was hell for them and they had to go back on as they felt they could not cope without them.
> 
> If you do it right and gradually taper down over 2-3 months possibly even longer. I did it over a 2-3 month spell, I felt 10x better. And as I gradually reduced the dosage I could see how suppressing the AD were actually making me feel.


Does stopping an AD cold turkey cause a negative rebound effect? Even when you reach the point were you are mentally ok without it? @M-16


----------



## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Does stopping an AD cold turkey cause a negative rebound effect? Even when you reach the point were you are mentally ok without it? @M-16


Yeah depending how long you've been taking them.

I was on them for say 6 months or so. And was mentally stable so went to see the doctor about coming off them and he 100% said not to just stop as it can bring back depression type feelings along with numerous other side effects from the sudden withdrawal of the meds.

As I say as I reduced the dose I could see they sort of had a hold on me mentally. But because I did it bit by bit I had no adverse reactions.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Jas said:


> Its well known low serotonin causes many cases of low to severe depression. As for why some medicine's are not working for some people, depends how long they take them for. Some people don't take their medication as prescribed, and use anabolic steroids instead to cure their depression.


no its not, its only *thought* that serotonin plays a role its not a certainty.

no psychiatrist has ever cured anyone

you will know if any antidepressant is working from any class (subgroup) within 3 weeks

some people dont take their medication as prescribed - of course, and this applies to any medication

as for taking AAS to cure depression , yes there is a very small amount of evidence to support this - tho this is with ppl who have low testosterone.

i have 'been' in the mental health system for around 14 yrs and done work in it for around 5 yr , i have a very good knowledge of its medications and how they and the system itself works.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

darren.1987 said:


> It's not the fact of stopping them. Its how you go about it by tapering down on AD
> 
> Family members of mine have just gone cold turkey and it was hell for them and they had to go back on as they felt they could not cope without them.
> 
> If you do it right and gradually taper down over 2-3 months possibly even longer. I did it over a 2-3 month spell, I felt 10x better. And as I gradually reduced the dosage I could see how suppressing the AD were actually making me feel.


read my above post , ive taken almost every class of antidepressant and withdrawn from many

* as you say , they should be tapered, cold turkey is a big no no , brain zaps and balance so bad you cant walk are not fun.

By far the worst for withdrawel is paroxetine , its the one where ppl in the u.s started sueing the pharma companys, so much so most trusts in the uk no longer prescribe it , i was taking it for 2 yrs and will attest to it being the worst for withdrawel.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Quick update (week 3)...

*Gear and training:* Couldn't be better!! Npp is in full swing and I'm responding great to the dbol. Clothes are starting to get a bit tight, strength and lifts are well up, and not getting any of the nasty dbol sides I normally get. Sus doesn't seem to be doing much yet, but I imagine that will probably kick in next week.

*Home life:* Feeling great!! Mood is good, energy is up and I'm looking forward to xmas

*Work:* Not so good. Very anxious at work so no improvement there. This is not like me at all...I think I have somehow associated work with the problems I've been having and can't seem to get that out of my head. Thinking about dropping the anti depressants as not sure if they're really helping!!


----------



## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

nlr said:


> I'm not going to reply anymore obviously you're in emotionally state right now which is why you're so sensitive. I guarantee most people will know what I meant by what I said, it was clear that I use testosterone and just wanted guidance on how to get my doctor to monitor my drug use to ensure my health isn't at risk because most are against it.. Most people will happily admit once they use any form of steroids there's a slight addiction to stay on but keep denying it and good luck.


how is trt an addiction? i run 250mg e10-14d most of the time. in the usa the standard trt dose is 200mg cyp ew for a 200lb male


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> I'm not going to reply anymore obviously you're in emotionally state right now which is why you're so sensitive. I guarantee most people will know what I meant by what I said, it was clear that I use testosterone and just wanted guidance on how to get my doctor to monitor my drug use to ensure my health isn't at risk because most are against it.. Most people will happily admit once they use any form of steroids there's a slight addiction to stay on but keep denying it and good luck.


I'm not in an emotional state at all...I think anyone would consider being called a drug addict by a total stranger to be pretty insulting!!


----------



## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

GMO said:


> how is trt an addiction? i run 250mg e10-14d most of the time. in the usa the standard trt dose is 200mg cyp ew for a 200lb male


Who said trt is an addiction? OP is using testosterone not because he is deficient or medically needs it but because it makes him feel confident.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> Who said trt is an addiction? OP is using testosterone not because he is deficient or medically needs it but because it makes him feel confident.


So you're fucusing on the confidence part in order to make your point? And just conveniently missing out the depression problems and everything else I've talked about!! Why do you feel the need to stamp an insulting label on me and call me an addict? Why not either make some kind of constructive or helpful comment...or failing that, just not comment at all!!


----------



## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

stuey99 said:


> So you're fucusing on the confidence part in order to make your point? And just conveniently missing out the depression problems and everything else I've talked about!! Why do you feel the need to stamp an insulting label on me and call me an addict? Why not either make some kind of constructive or helpful comment...or failing that, just not comment at all!!


Stop being so sensitive I didn't insult you I initially asked you for advice? Steroids are addicting why are you arguing this pointless case. No-one really cares we are all in the same boat.


----------



## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

nlr said:


> Who said trt is an addiction? OP is using testosterone not because he is deficient or medically needs it but because it makes him feel confident.


so choosing to go on trt to keep test levels in the upper range to feel better is an addiction but getting it because you medically need it is not? i dont think hes stopping on cycle dose for ever mate, i know were you coming from though as ive been victim of androgen addiction before.. not wanting to come off cycle ect but choosing to go on trt to better you life is not an addiction , not imo any way.


----------



## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

I haven't read the whole thread only a few posts and it's come across that he likes the feel that testosterone gives him. Don't we all lol? I asked him a question I guess I could of worded it better but he got offended. I honestly didn't mean to like I said a few posts back that I stay on myself self prescribed.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

GMO said:


> so choosing to go on trt to keep test levels in the upper range to feel better is an addiction but getting it because you medically need it is not? i dont think hes stopping on cycle dose for ever mate, i know were you coming from though as ive been victim of androgen addiction before.. not wanting to come off cycle ect but choosing to go on trt to better you life is not an addiction , not imo any way.


one needs it to stay well and healthy and one does not  , if prescribed TRT is an addiction then maybe we need to include diabetes and a host of other conditions that *need*

*
* daily/weekly/monthly medication.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> I haven't read the whole thread only a few posts and it's come across that he likes the feel that testosterone gives him. Don't we all lol? I asked him a question I guess I could of worded it better but he got offended. I honestly didn't mean to like I said a few posts back that I stay on myself self prescribed.


Really?? I think even my original post makes it very clear that I'm not just doing this because I just like the way test makes me feel!! You're deliberately over simplifying this to justify calling me a drug addict. Are you telling me that calling someone you don't know a drug addict isn't offensive??


----------



## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

aqualung said:


> one needs it to stay well and healthy and one does not  , if prescribed TRT is an addiction then maybe we need to include diabetes and a host of other conditions that *need*
> 
> *
> * daily/weekly/monthly medication.


good point, same with self prescribed trt imo, test levels are supposed to be between 10 and 35 (i think lol) so say if you have test level of 12 you dont medically need it but if you feel better with a test level of 30 or so.. over double but still in range why shouldn't you top it up? this is just an example. some folk do use high dose year round and are andro addicts , i think there is a fine line between the 2.


----------



## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

stuey99 said:


> Really?? I think even my original post makes it very clear that I'm not just doing this because I just like the way test makes me feel!! You're deliberately over simplifying this to justify calling me a drug addict. Are you telling me that calling someone you don't know a drug addict isn't offensive??


Depends on the content of course we are talking about testosterone not heroin. Please tag someone that has done 1 cycle and never used test again? You won't be able to because it's addicting, I'm addicted and most on this forum are. Like I said sorry if I caused offence but I simply asked how your doctor monitors your self prescribed drug use when it's illegal.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

GMO said:


> good point, same with self prescribed trt imo, test levels are supposed to be between 10 and 35 (i think lol) so say if you have test level of 12 you dont medically need it but if you feel better with a test level of 30 or so.. over double but still in range why shouldn't you top it up? this is just an example. some folk do use high dose year round and are andro addicts , i think there is a fine line between the 2.


yup , i guess you could take it down to who has been diagnosed , self diagnosis is dangerous but as you say (and i know) , getting someone to listen to you if your levels are between 9-12 n/mol is hard work in the UK and many think '**** it' i'll do it myself.

personally i think anyone should be able to take anything they want legally and its up to themselves to self educate regarding the risks etc (- insert the old joke about removing the warning labels from all packaging as a form of natural selection- )


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

nlr said:


> Depends on the content of course we are talking about testosterone not heroin. Please tag someone that has done 1 cycle and never used test again? You won't be able to because it's addicting, I'm addicted and most on this forum are. Like I said sorry if I caused offence but I simply asked how your doctor monitors your self prescribed drug use when it's illegal.


Well I appreciate and accept your apology...that's really all that was needed, rather than going on and on trying to justify what you said lol. To answer your question, I have one rule when it comes to a GP...make sure you have one that you feel you can talk to about anything (and I'm not just talking about aas here). If you haven't got that then change your GP, and keep changing until you find one.

My old GP in Newcastle would give me sick notes for anythinh and would quite happily prescribe me tramadol and diazepam no questions asked. My new GP isn't quite as good but he'll do for now. Just be honest with your doc and ask the question...and if he says no then switch docs. Simples!!


----------



## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

nlr said:


> Depends on the content of course we are talking about testosterone not heroin. Please tag someone that has done 1 cycle and never used test again? You won't be able to because it's addicting, I'm addicted and most on this forum are. Like I said sorry if I caused offence but I simply asked how your doctor monitors your self prescribed drug use when it's illegal.


it legal for personal use mate, but docs will help you through illegal drug addictions and keep an eye on your health.. i know this from personal exp


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Everything is good!! Sex drive, mood, training all spot on!! It's turning into one of those bulks where weight actually isn't going up much...I'm getting bigger but seem to be burning off alot of fat as well...npp always seems to do this for me. Massive night sweats and sleepless nights...you'd think I was on fvckin tren lol. 4500 cals every day now and training each bodypart twice a week (PPL 6 on 1 off)

Just had first shot of BSI mtrenDS before back and bis this morning and I was well impressed. Lifts shot up and by the end of a 45 min workout I was nearly bursting out of my t shirt haha.


----------



## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stuey99 said:


> Everything is good!! Sex drive, mood, training all spot on!! It's turning into one of those bulks where weight actually isn't going up much...I'm getting bigger but seem to be burning off alot of fat as well...npp always seems to do this for me. Massive night sweats and sleepless nights...you'd think I was on fvckin tren lol. 4500 cals every day now and training each bodypart twice a week (PPL 6 on 1 off)
> 
> Just had first shot of BSI mtrenDS before back and bis this morning and I was well impressed. Lifts shot up and by the end of a 45 min workout I was nearly bursting out of my t shirt haha.


I like to think of npp as trens little brother, nice lean gains and a seem to deffo help shift the chub, maybe train a little less mate, 6 on 1 off is a bit much and dosnt leave time much for recovery


----------



## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> Everything is good!! Sex drive, mood, training all spot on!! It's turning into one of those bulks where weight actually isn't going up much...I'm getting bigger but seem to be burning off alot of fat as well...npp always seems to do this for me. Massive night sweats and sleepless nights...you'd think I was on fvckin tren lol. 4500 cals every day now and training each bodypart twice a week (PPL 6 on 1 off)
> 
> Just had first shot of BSI mtrenDS before back and bis this morning and I was well impressed. Lifts shot up and by the end of a 45 min workout I was nearly bursting out of my t shirt haha.


Im like that with the BSI Test suspension, absolutely love that stuff.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

GMO said:


> I like to think of npp as trens little brother, nice lean gains and a seem to deffo help shift the chub, maybe train a little less mate, 6 on 1 off is a bit much and dosnt leave time much for recovery


Yeah I've been doing 3 on 1 off but I've got a month off work now so seeing as I've got more time to eat and rest was gonna ramp it up to 6 on 1 off. Actually been having second thoughts anyway...possibly a little extreme lol.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> Im like that with the BSI Test suspension, absolutely love that stuff.


Yeah I've tried the suspension, dbol and testdbol before and they're all excellent...the mtren DS is even better haha!!


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well the mtrenDS was going so well I decided to up the dose to 1.5ml. On the one hand I think I probably had the best workout of my life...but on the other I think at one point I was pacing up and down the gym and possibly growling haha!! Then went to Sainsbury's for some chicken but tills weren't open for 10 minutes, and as I stood waiting I think I could actually hear my blood boiling!! Lesson learned...1.5 ml is too fvckin much lol.

Could use some advice as well. I'm back up to benching 47.5kg dumbells, which is always the point I've never been able to get past. It's not that my chest isn't strong enough...the problem is with being 6'4 and naturally skinny it doesn't matter how big I get my wrists just aren't strong enough to balance the 50's. And I want those fvckin 50s!!! Any ideas lads??


----------



## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

stuey99 said:


> Well the mtrenDS was going so well I decided to up the dose to 1.5ml. On the one hand I think I probably had the best workout of my life...but on the other I think at one point I was pacing up and down the gym and possibly growling haha!! Then went to Sainsbury's for some chicken but tills weren't open for 10 minutes, and as I stood waiting I think I could actually hear my blood boiling!! Lesson learned...1.5 ml is too fvckin much lol.
> 
> Could use some advice as well. I'm back up to benching 47.5kg dumbells, which is always the point I've never been able to get past. It's not that my chest isn't strong enough...the problem is with being 6'4 and naturally skinny it doesn't matter how big I get my wrists just aren't strong enough to balance the 50's. And I want those fvckin 50s!!! Any ideas lads??


Wrist wraps.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

mal said:


> Wrist wraps.


Never really liked using them tbh mate, I actually gave my last set away. Could be worth reconsidering tho. Suppose I could go back to barbell bench but I've had a on/off dodgy rotator cuff which is only really feeling better atm cos of the npp I'm running, don't really wanna risk it tho.


----------



## bulitz (Mar 9, 2011)

If you use straps I can recommend the gasp ones way better than the cheep sh1ty elastic ones.


----------



## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

stuey99 said:


> Never really liked using them tbh mate, I actually gave my last set away. Could be worth reconsidering tho. Suppose I could go back to barbell bench but I've had a on/off dodgy rotator cuff which is only really feeling better atm cos of the npp I'm running, don't really wanna risk it tho.


I dont do any pressing without them now,good support a better control and stops alot

Of injuries.


----------



## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

You mean your lifting 47.5kg dumbbells each arm or combined weight?

Gym I use only goes up to 50kg dumbells lol


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

darren.1987 said:


> You mean your lifting 47.5kg dumbbells each arm or combined weight?
> 
> Gym I use only goes up to 50kg dumbells lol


Lol, yeah 47.5 each arm mate.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

bulitz said:


> If you use straps I can recommend the gasp ones way better than the cheep sh1ty elastic ones.





mal said:


> I dont do any pressing without them now,good support a better control and stops alot
> 
> Of injuries.


Cheers lads, looks like that's the plan then.


----------



## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> Cheers lads, looks like that's the plan then.


3ml of Mtren????


----------



## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Most guys who are serious about bodybuilding never come off bro, your far from alone.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> 3ml of Mtren????


Hahaha naa mate, 1.5ml lol.


----------



## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> Hahaha naa mate, 1.5ml lol.


3ml and you'll do 55's.......... haha


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> 3ml and you'll do 55's.......... haha


Did 1.5ml again this morning...couldn't help myself lol (in fact it was prob closer to 2ml). Then went into Leeds to do some last minute xmas shopping...this was a really bad idea!! After half an hour I was in such a fvckin rage I actually felt like killing someone!! Think I'll take a break from the mtren till the new year...fvckin killer workout this morning tho haha!!


----------



## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

HOW THE HELL have i missed this.....


----------



## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Subba dub dubbed


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

So I'm sat here looking at the Apollo list and eying up their rip blends lol. Thinking if I've packed on enough mass by week 10 of test/npp I might switch and do a 10 week recomp. Will be first time with tren so could either go with 1.5 or 2 ml a week of the Apollo ROP 450E. So that would be either 300/300/300 or 225/225/225 test e/tren e/mast e? Any thoughts? Would 225 of each be enough do drop a bit of body fat and add some more muscle...or should I go for 300 of each?


----------



## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> So I'm sat here looking at the Apollo list and eying up their rip blends lol. Thinking if I've packed on enough mass by week 10 of test/npp I might switch and do a 10 week recomp. Will be first time with tren so could either go with 1.5 or 2 ml a week of the Apollo ROP 450E. So that would be either 300/300/300 or 225/225/225 test e/tren e/mast e? Any thoughts? Would 225 of each be enough do drop a bit of body fat and add some more muscle...or should I go for 300 of each?


I am buying the 450 ES to have in stock gonna stock up on ALOT.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> I am buying the 450 ES to have in stock gonna stock up on ALOT.


Yeah, the high tren one. Will prob switch to that if all goes well with the 450E. You reckon 1.5 or 2ml of the 450E to start off? Just got some mtren and its wet my appetite to do a proper tren cycle lol


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Or...I could drop the npp after 10 weeks, reduce sus to 250mg a week and add tren e at 100mg eod? So 250 sustanon/350 tren e for a 6-8 week recomp at end of cycle? Any thoughts lads???


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Or...I could drop the npp after 10 weeks, reduce sus to 250mg a week and add tren e at 100mg eod? So 250 sustanon/350 tren e for a 6-8 week recomp at end of cycle? Any thoughts lads???


I would use tren ace over enth if you are gonna go that short a time.

Nothing wrong with the proposal, add some t3 in or clen it you fancy


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well I've just ordered 20ml Apollo RIP 450E (150mg each test e/tren e/mast e). Gonna continue with the npp for another 4 weeks tho...so the tren should be kicking in just as the npp runs out. Will start the RIP at 2ml a week on Monday. First time with tren lads so wish me luck lol.


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

Stuey, are you getting bloodwork periodically throughout? cant remember if you said you were or not.

Tren's no big deal, loads of hype!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> Stuey, are you getting bloodwork periodically throughout? cant remember if you said you were or not.
> 
> Tren's no big deal, loads of hype!


Will be getting bloods done every 6 months mate, or as often as I can fit into my hectic schedule lol. Looking forward to the switch mate, I've always steered clear or tren to avoid difficult recoveries...but this isn't really gonna be a problem anymore lol.


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> Will be getting bloods done every 6 months mate, or as often as I can fit into my hectic schedule lol. Looking forward to the switch mate, I've always steered clear or tren to avoid difficult recoveries...but this isn't really gonna be a problem anymore lol.


I'll get the Tren lynch squad at me here, but ive always found it to be no different than taking anything else. Increase in aggression only, and a bit sweatier, guess everyones different.

Defo try acetate first though, would be my tip!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> I'll get the Tren lynch squad at me here, but ive always found it to be no different than taking anything else. Increase in aggression only, and a bit sweatier, guess everyones different.
> 
> Defo try acetate first though, would be my tip!


Lol too late mate, I've already booked enth!! Fvck it, I ain't dropping out mid cycle anyway...I'm only going upto 300mg so should be ok.


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

Be reight.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> Be reight.


Any advice on diet when bulking on tren mate? I'm currently on around 4700 cals (400g carbs/400g protein/120g fats). I'm sure I heard that high carbs and protein and low fats is best when bulking on tren?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Least you are trying tren in the winter, I used it in the heat wave in summer. Was not a nice experience.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Least you are trying tren in the winter, I used it in the heat wave in summer. Was not a nice experience.


Haha tbh mate I get really bad sweats with npp so fvck knows what I'm gonna be like on tren!! Wake up every morning in a pool of sweat and stinking of vinegar!! Do you use it to bulk or cut?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

stuey99 said:


> Haha tbh mate I get really bad sweats with npp so fvck knows what I'm gonna be like on tren!! Wake up every morning in a pool of sweat and stinking of vinegar!! Do you use it to bulk or cut?


I used it to cut then but didn't last long enough for it to get good. Working in a toy shop and dripping with sweat wasn't a goo look. Going to try npp next year hoping I don't sweat loads with that.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

First jab of Apollo 450E done...so I'm now officially on my first tren cycle (and I'm more than a little bit excited lol). Oil was fairly thick and this wasn't helped by having to draw and inject with orange pins, haha...needle exchange on Monday!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> First jab of Apollo 450E done...so I'm now officially on my first tren cycle (and I'm more than a little bit excited lol). Oil was fairly thick and this wasn't helped by having to draw and inject with orange pins, haha...needle exchange on Monday!!


Nice mate I am getting the Apollo 450 ES myself


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Nice mate I am getting the Apollo 450 ES myself


Well can't comment on the gear yet obviously, but the jab was smooth as silk...zero pip this morning. If the gear's as good as I've heard I might be stopping with Apollo for a while.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Well can't comment on the gear yet obviously, but the jab was smooth as silk...zero pip this morning. If the gear's as good as I've heard I might be stopping with Apollo for a while.


Same here if mine is gtg then i will be trying their decaNPP blend


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Same here if mine is gtg then i will be trying their decaNPP blend


When should I expect to notice any sides from the tren e mate? I'm assuming gains will come as quick as anything else with the enanthate ester.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Same here if mine is gtg then i will be trying their decaNPP blend


...and yeah, I've been looking at this as well. Thinking 1ml deca/npp and 1ml test e e3d for 20 weeks. Nice!!


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> When should I expect to notice any sides from the tren e mate? I'm assuming gains will come as quick as anything else with the enanthate ester.


Tren enth hits me about week 3 gains wise but week 2 mentally.

I'm running Apollo tren hex and am loving it.

Tbh with some of their blend like the npp/deca and tren ace/tren enth they are very well suited to a SHIC


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

RowRow said:


> Tren enth hits me about week 3 gains wise but week 2 mentally.
> 
> I'm running Apollo tren hex and am loving it.
> 
> Tbh with some of their blend like the npp/deca and tren ace/tren enth they are very well suited to a SHIC


Cheers buddy. Yeah, their blends look excellent. Will prob get a couple of cycle/cruises under my belt first, then gonna look into SHIC myself.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> ...and yeah, I've been looking at this as well. Thinking 1ml deca/npp and 1ml test e e3d for 20 weeks. Nice!!


I am only going to shoot the test & decaNPP blend twice a week when i go for the blend


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

@Tinytom @Pscarb I started this thread to help me out with a serious problem. However I've just had graham58 using the contents of this thread to mock me about my depression. This is a problem that I'm still really struggling with, and although this thread and all the guys on UKM have been a massive help to me, if this thread is gonna be used against me then maybe it's time it was deleted. I am off work now due to the issues I've been having and at serious risk of losing my job...I really don't think that is a laughing matter.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed tho, you all helped me through a really tough time in my life.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Forget it mods. Apparently this kind of thing is acceptable on UKM now. You may as well leave this thread up, I doubt I'll be back.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Forget it mods. Apparently this kind of thing is acceptable on UKM now. You may as well leave this thread up, I doubt I'll be back.


Mate fuwk him anyone making fun of your depression is a sack of sh!t, don't let that person win you got me & countless others in your corner mate! Be strong continue the thread & say fuwk it!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Mate fuwk him anyone making fun of your depression is a sack of sh!t, don't let that person win you got me & countless others in your corner mate! Be strong continue the thread & say fuwk it!


Thanks for the support brother, I appreciate it more than you know...and don't worry, I ain't going nowhere!! To be honest, I exagerated how upset I was, so I apologise to anyone I've mislead, but I felt it was necessary to bring the board's attention to what I see as a very nasty and dangerous member. We have all seen reports on the news about the tragic outcomes of internet bullying, especially in relation to depression...unfortunately it seems the message has fallen on deaf ears!!

Since starting this thread it has come to my attention that many, many UKM members have struggled with depression. And I have had numerous discussion with them, not only on this thread but via pm and e mail. I am in the lucky position where I have found a cure through steroid use but many of the people who I have talked to have much more serious issues than me...my heart goes out to them!!

I will most definitely keep this thread going, but would urge anyone who wants help or advice to contact me via pm rather than posting in this thread. It seems there are members of UKM who are happy to use this kind of thing as ammunition to win silly arguements and unfortunately nothing is being done about this.

Thanks again for your support mate, and as said I will keep this thread going, but mostly just to keep you guys updated on how my cycles are going...I certainly won't be posting anymore sensitive info in the public forum.

Anyway, enough of this serious sh1t...where's my fvckin mtren, I can hear the gym calling me!!!! Lol


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well, the new year lists have started coming in from sources, so I've just put an order in for some neuro pharma oxys. 100mg ed should be a nice addition I think, especially when the tren kicks in!! Oh, and happy new year to you all!!


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## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> Mate fuwk him anyone making fun of your depression is a sack of sh!t, don't let that person win you got me & countless others in your corner mate! Be strong continue the thread & say fuwk it!


You deserve some respect for supporting the man!! TRT helps people. Its a long article to read but worth it if anyone else is interested.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2532334/Should-grumpy-old-man-HRT-Despite-doctors-concerns-growing-numbers-men-insist-testosterone-jabs-transformed-lives.html


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Jas said:


> You deserve some respect for supporting the man!! TRT helps people. Its a long article to read but worth it if anyone else is interested.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2532334/Should-grumpy-old-man-HRT-Despite-doctors-concerns-growing-numbers-men-insist-testosterone-jabs-transformed-lives.html


I support anyone that deserves supporting i have struggled HARD with depression myself & will say this its no joking matter. Imagine being so low that you cant see anything but blackness & the only relief only way out seems to be death. I assure you its more torture then the most horrid physical pain you can imagine.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> I support anyone that deserves supporting i have struggled HARD with depression myself & will say this its no joking matter. Imagine being so low that you cant see anything but blackness & the only relief only way out seems to be death. I assure you its more torture then the most horrid physical pain you can imagine.


Alot of people have the misconception that having depression is just feeling a bit sad and down all the time...and they seem to think you should just be able to pull yourself out of it. It's really not that easy tho. Aas have helped me so much, and of course ant depressants.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Alot of people have the misconception that having depression is just feeling a bit sad and down all the time...and they seem to think you should just be able to pull yourself out of it. It's really not that easy tho. Aas have helped me so much, and of course ant depressants.


Also people ten to think your weak for having it but in reality if they had it they could never handle it as well as you can. Cause they wouldnt know the first thing about WTH they were experiencing.


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## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> Also people ten to think your weak for having it but in reality if they had it they could never handle it as well as you can. Cause they wouldnt know the first thing about WTH they were experiencing.


I have to concur with you both, and hats off to Stu for Manning - up and posting this thread, I do understand it takes a while for people to fully understand including me. I hope the Daily mail article helps other folks.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Also people ten to think your weak for having it but in reality if they had it they could never handle it as well as you can. Cause they wouldnt know the first thing about WTH they were experiencing.





Jas said:


> I have to concur with you both, and hats off to Stu for Manning - up and posting this thread, I do understand it takes a while for people to fully understand including me. I hope the Daily mail article helps other folks.


You hit the nail on the head there Infernal...people do look at you as weak and pathetic, for me this is one of the worst things. Thanks both for your support, I'll have a read of that article when I get home Jas


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Don't let any caant put you down. They try to put you down cause there down and need a lift..there pathetic


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> You hit the nail on the head there Infernal...people do look at you as weak and pathetic, for me this is one of the worst things. Thanks both for your support, I'll have a read of that article when I get home Jas


Mate you are stronger then anyone who feels the need to call you out on having depression . As i told a bloke who had a go at me some 9 months ago well i might have depression but it doesnt meant that i cant kick your ass.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mark2021 said:


> Don't let any caant put you down. They try to put you down cause there down and need a lift..there pathetic


Cheer Mark!! I'm feeling so much better these days mate!! Going back on the gear hasn't just given me a boost, it's got me back in the gym and given me something to focus on...I feel great!! I'm still not 100%, still got problems coping with stresses at work but I'll just take it one day at a time and I know I'll get there soon. I think a change of career might be on the cards to be honest, I feel like a totally fresh start might be the final piece of the puzzle for me. Thanks again for the support buddy!!



infernal0988 said:


> Mate you are stronger then anyone who feels the need to call you out on having depression . As i told a bloke who had a go at me some 9 months ago well i might have depression but it doesnt meant that i cant kick your ass.


Yeah, I've been getting loads of sly comments and grief off my cvnt of a manager at work. When I first came back after having time off cos of the depression he blatantly started having a go at me for no reason...and often in front of my whole department. He obviously smelled what he thought was weakness and it was like a red rag to a bull. I've gotta bite my tongue for now as it's a new job and I'm still on probation, but if I decide to chuck the job then chances are he'll be getting a slap before I go...and when this tren kicks in I'll probably do the little pr**k some serious damage haha!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Cheer Mark!! I'm feeling so much better these days mate!! Going back on the gear hasn't just given me a boost, it's got me back in the gym and given me something to focus on...I feel great!! I'm still not 100%, still got problems coping with stresses at work but I'll just take it one day at a time and I know I'll get there soon. I think a change of career might be on the cards to be honest, I feel like a totally fresh start might be the final piece of the puzzle for me. Thanks again for the support buddy!!
> 
> Yeah, I've been getting loads of sly comments and grief off my cvnt of a manager at work. When I first came back after having time off cos of the depression he blatantly started having a go at me for no reason...and often in front of my whole department. He obviously smelled what he thought was weakness and it was like a red rag to a bull. I've gotta bite my tongue for now as it's a new job and I'm still on probation, but if I decide to chuck the job then chances are he'll be getting a slap before I go...and when this tren kicks in I'll probably do the little pr**k some serious damage haha!!


No just seriously stand up to the guy & say harassment at work is not something that is tolerated even if the guy is the boss he too can be replace i promise you that.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> No just seriously stand up to the guy & say harassment at work is not something that is tolerated even if the guy is the boss he too can be replace i promise you that.


Yeah I hear you mate, I'm just trying to tread carefully atm. My work's not been up to scratch since I started the job so don't wanna risk losing it. I've just moved from Newcastle to Bradford and got a wedding coming up in June so can't afford to be out of work. I'm not gonna let him get to me anymore tho!! I've got another 2 weeks before I go back and I'm guessing when I go back after a month off and prob well over a stone heavier he might think twice before he says anything else lol.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Yeah I hear you mate, I'm just trying to tread carefully atm. My work's not been up to scratch since I started the job so don't wanna risk losing it. I've just moved from Newcastle to Bradford and got a wedding coming up in June so can't afford to be out of work. I'm not gonna let him get to me anymore tho!! I've got another 2 weeks before I go back and I'm guessing when I go back after a month off and prob well over a stone heavier he might think twice before he says anything else lol.


Lets hope so mate


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Had a dream lasy night the world had been taken over by zombies...and then the zombies started eating other zombies and created a super dangerous zombie breed. We were living in locked refridgerators on rooftops and only coming out in the day to steal rotten fruit from borded up shops.

I never have dreams like this!!!


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

stuey99 said:


> Had a dream lasy night the world had been taken over by zombies...and then the zombies started eating other zombies and created a super dangerous zombie breed. We were living in locked refridgerators on rooftops and only coming out in the day to steal rotten fruit from borded up shops.
> 
> I never have dreams like this!!!


You been on Dead Rising 3??


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> You been on Dead Rising 3??


No mate lol, I'm assuming that's a game tho yeah? I'm afraid my gaming career ended after super mario kart haha!! Dream was nuts tho, felt like a full length horror movie in my head!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Ok, just a quick update in case there's anyone out there who's not bored of this thread by now lol.

Still waiting for the Apollo RIP450 to kick in properly (I think today is day 12) although I'm starting to get insomnia and some seriously wierd dreams. I'm also coming to the end of my ROHM npp (3ml left) and considering getting some more (maybe WC this time) and running just enough to keep my joints nice and lubricated. I'm thinking 1ml e3d which would work out about 240mg a week, would that be enough?

Also, I've got some good news on the Neuro Pharm oxys...I'm now into week 2 and can confirm they are the dogs b0ll0cks haha!! Pumped up to fvck after the gym this morning and was stopped by 3 strangers as I left asking what I was taking...always a good sign of quality anadrol IMO.

Well that's about it...any advice on the npp dose would be appreciated. Cheers.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Bump for some advice on the npp lads??


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Nevermind....I've ordered it now haha!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Still waiting for the tren e to kick in...but just ordered some Neuro Pharm mtren to keep me amused till it does hahaha!!

@Suprakill4 you've used this, have you got to pin longer pre w/out than the water based? " hours ok?


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

I think 100mg npp 2x a week would be plenty to keep the joints going.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

RowRow said:


> I think 100mg npp 2x a week would be plenty to keep the joints going.


Yeah that's what I was thinking mate, will prob drop to that when the tren e kicks in...just started week 3 so hopefully won't be much longer lol


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Day 20 of the Apollo 450 and I think the tren has finally come knocking on my door!! Woke up this morning with an incredible sense of well being, and have an unbelievable amount of energy...feels kinda like I have something driving me!! Also, feel very calm and confident...I like it!!!!!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Day 20 of the Apollo 450 and I think the tren has finally come knocking on my door!! Woke up this morning with an incredible sense of well being, and have an unbelievable amount of energy...feels kinda like I have something driving me!! Also, feel very calm and confident...I like it!!!!!!


Looks like Tren has seduced yet another victim


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Looks like Tren has seduced yet another victim


This has gotta be the tren right? It's a bit like that warm tingly feeling you get when you first come up on a pill lol.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> This has gotta be the tren right? It's a bit like that warm tingly feeling you get when you first come up on a pill lol.


Good sign for me is kinda weird I get inexplicable chills up & down my entire body ALOT while on tren. Like i'm about ti burst & go supersayan LOL!!!!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Up and down at the minute but still feeling pretty fvckin good!! Had possibly the best chest and tri workout of my life yesterday....and finally cracked the 50kg mark on db bench press!! Wnt into Manchester with the mrs in the afternoon to try suits on at Hugo Boss for the wedding. Just being around that many people sent me a bit loopy lol...everytime someone cut in front of me or was walking too slowly I had an overwhelming urge to kick the sh1t out of them on the spot haha!! And don't get me started on tose annoying charity tw4ts who insist on stopping you in the street!!

So all is well apart from lack of sleep, a violent temper and soaking wet bed sheets that stink of vinegar lol...and my Neoro Pharm mtren arrived this morning!! Back and bicep day tomorrow, can't fvckin wait!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

And going through calories like a fvckin freeght train!! Been eating really clean (5000+ cals a day) but felt like I needed a cheat meal yesterday so went to Burger King. Got a double aberdeen angus meal with cheese and bacon, stuffed that in about 3 minutes then went back for another one hahaha!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> And going through calories like a fvckin freeght train!! Been eating really clean (5000+ cals a day) but felt like I needed a cheat meal yesterday so went to Burger King. Got a double aberdeen angus meal with cheese and bacon, stuffed that in about 3 minutes then went back for another one hahaha!!


With all the greens & fiber heavy food i am eating now i can barely manage around 3700 cals & 270 grams of protein.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> With all the greens & fiber heavy food i am eating now i can barely manage around 3700 cals & 270 grams of protein.


I'm using 50mcgs T3 ed as well mate so that's helping with going through cals as well mate. It's been keeping me nice and lean as well. Now the tren's kicking in tho I'm gonna drop the T3 to 25mcgs and up cals to 5300 and see what happens. Just gonna keep an eye on things over the next few weeks and see how my body reacts.

The mtren should last me till the start of Feb, and when that's used up I'm gonna re evaluate the tren situation. By that time I'll be 6 weeks in on the 450E and if I'm responding well and sides aren't too bad I might add some tren ace at a low dose (prob just 50mg eod) and run that for the rest of the cycle.

Have you decided what you're doing yet?


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> With all the greens & fiber heavy food i am eating now i can barely manage around 3700 cals & 270 grams of protein.


I'm finding this too. 3 fruit and veg smoothies a day has left little room inside for anything else and I'm never hungry.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

JR8908 said:


> I'm finding this too. 3 fruit and veg smoothies a day has left little room inside for anything else and I'm never hungry.


T3's worked wonders for my appetite mate. It does slow gains slightly IMO but I feel it's worth it as the gains seem of a much better quality and I seem to be getting leaner.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

So what dose of things are u on then mate?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mark2021 said:


> So what dose of things are u on then mate?


350mg each test e/tren e/mast e/npp and 100mg oxys ed. Also using 2500mcgs mtren pre w/out 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

I really want to stay on, but I'm finding in getting ill more frequently now, possibly due to the immune suppression from increased cortisol levels?

You know of anything to counter raised cortisol levels by any chance?


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> I really want to stay on, but I'm finding in getting ill more frequently now, possibly due to the immune suppression from increased cortisol levels?
> 
> You know of anything to counter raised cortisol levels by any chance?


Mate, you need to get bloods done rather than just guessing. How long you been on for and what doses you been running? Getting ill could simply be down to the time of year, you been eating healthy and taking plenty of vits? I'm veryrarely ill, and if I am it tends to be abrief 24 or 48 hour thing, possibly just down to lack of sleep, tiredness or test flu.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

stuey99 said:


> Mate, you need to get bloods done rather than just guessing. How long you been on for and what doses you been running? Getting ill could simply be down to the time of year, you been eating healthy and taking plenty of vits? I'm veryrarely ill, and if I am it tends to be abrief 24 or 48 hour thing, possibly just down to lack of sleep, tiredness or test flu.


600mg for about 8 months, with a few vials on tren thrown in.... can't afford bloods doing privately and dont want steroids on my medical record :/


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> 600mg for about 8 months, with a few vials on tren thrown in.... can't afford bloods doing privately and dont want steroids on my medical record :/


Where do you live...Leeds??


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

stuey99 said:


> Where do you live...Leeds??


Yes mate


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Yes mate


I'm on the border of Leeds and Bradford mate (BD postcode but tell people I live in Leeds lol). Get down the pump clinic in Manc mate, they do free bloods. I've not been yet but will do in the next couple months.


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## dshock (Jan 14, 2014)

Hi mate, ive suffered with depression since 1999-2000 til present.Whether to take my advice is up to you, Depression is anger Turned inwards thats the truth about it.Im seeing a counsellor on and off for years and im not ashamed to admit it(Which i should never have stopped). I know youre gonna do what youre gonna do but try and help yourself at least and be AWARE. Ive been in some really dark places and it took away years of my life and really have alot of empathy for people suffering from it. Anti-depressents, SSRIS are really dangerous, for sever cases in my opinion.Never mind your Drug dealing GP. It can be cured or if not managed, you really do have to "Mind your Mind" brother.

Ive read about philosophers and poets who are really inspirational, you can good alot of their quoutes ( Emerson,lao Tzu, Carl Jung etc) I would recommend daily and night affirmations as much as you can because these will seep into youre subconcious and replace negative thoughts with positive ones.

Anyways, stay safe and always be aware..And remember "You control your thoughts,They do not control you"

Take care


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Worst nights sleep ever...feel like sh1t lol. Time for breakfast of champions: 6 scrambled eggs, 100g porridge with 400ml semi skimmed, 100mg oxys, 2.5mg mtren and 200mg caffeine...then early gym session!!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Tren has hit me like a fvckin ton of bricks!!! Real bad shakes and anxiety on way to the gym, and felt sick as fvck...but as soon as I walked into the weights room everything changed. Strength is through the roof...felt amazing!! Dropping the oxys, they're just not necessary now lol...and Neuro Pharm mtren is bang on (possibly better than BSI) but gonna drop that to 0.5mg pre w/out as I honestly feel the tren's enough!!

Oh and before I forget...I owe @infernal0988 a big thanks for some great advice (you know what I'm talking about mate haha). It's not often I listen to people but boy am I glad I did this time!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Tren has hit me like a fvckin ton of bricks!!! Real bad shakes and anxiety on way to the gym, and felt sick as fvck...but as soon as I walked into the weights room everything changed. Strength is through the roof...felt amazing!! Dropping the oxys, they're just not necessary now lol...and Neuro Pharm mtren is bang on (possibly better than BSI) but gonna drop that to 0.5mg pre w/out as I honestly feel the tren's enough!!
> 
> Oh and before I forget...I owe @infernal0988 a big thanks for some great advice (you know what I'm talking about mate haha). It's not often I listen to people but boy am I glad I did this time!!


Hehe no problem mate ENJOY the tren  Idk if you have the chance to add some extra masteron like 200mg more ? But that would really do you a favor as regards to Tren sides IMO.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Hehe no problem mate ENJOY the tren  Idk if you have the chance to add some extra masteron like 200mg more ? But that would really do you a favor as regards to Tren sides IMO.


Really? How does that help with tren sides?


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Really? How does that help with tren sides?


the basic idea is that DHT binds so strongly to the receptors that it sort of blocks a portion of the Estrogen & progesteron. Since Tren or Deca binds very strongly them selfs masteron being a DHT gives the 19nor`s something to compete with.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> the basic idea is that DHT binds so strongly to the receptors that it sort of blocks a portion of the Estrogen & progesteron. Since Tren or Deca binds very strongly them selfs masteron being a DHT gives the 19nor`s something to compete with.


Good info mate!! Adding extra juice is the sort of advice I like haha!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Good info mate!! Adding extra juice is the sort of advice I like haha!!


I didnt think much of it myself until i actually tried a Tren cycle with Masteron & one without the difference FOR ME atleast was night & day.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

The plan to drop the oxys and mtren has kinda gone out the window haha. Instead I upped mtren to 1.5 ml and oxys to 150mg pre w/out this morning!! Smashed the gym to pieces!! It's hard to believe that less than 2 months ago I was depressed and unable to get out of bed!!


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

stuey99 said:


> The plan to drop the oxys and mtren has kinda gone out the window haha. Instead I upped mtren to 1.5 ml and oxys to 150mg pre w/out this morning!! Smashed the gym to pieces!! It's hard to believe that less than 2 months ago I was depressed and unable to get out of bed!!


Fcuk that's a preworkout n a half lol


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Fcuk that's a preworkout n a half lol


Was shaking like a leaf on way to the gym mate, but as soon as I stepped in the weights room I was fine...fvckin awesome workout!! I suspect I may crash hard in a few hours tho lol.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> The plan to drop the oxys and mtren has kinda gone out the window haha. Instead I upped mtren to 1.5 ml and oxys to 150mg pre w/out this morning!! Smashed the gym to pieces!! It's hard to believe that less than 2 months ago I was depressed and unable to get out of bed!!


Jesus h Christ i think i can safely say i'v been dethroned. You mad man


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Jesus h Christ i think i can safely say i'v been dethroned. You mad man


Hit the gym like a man possessed mate...got some proper funny looks lol. Best workout I've ever had...felt like I'd been plugged into the national grid!! There was a downside tho...about 5 hours later I crashed, and crashed hard!!! Was sat in the Toby having Sunday dinner with the mrs and started shaking and sweating like a pig...was not a good look!!

Tren sides seem to have calmed down now. Still sweating like a rapist at night...the mrs went into the spare room last night. Can't blame her tbh, not only is the bed soaking every night...but it fvckin stinks as well!!!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

That's 4 weeks of tren e and only have 3 sides...insomnia, night sweats and general fvckin awesomeness lol. So it's time to add a bit of tren ace and see how things go. Ordered some Neuro Pharm ace which I'll be running 50mg eod ontop of the 350mg tren enth, making 525mg total tren a week. Dropping the oxys a bit earlier than intended due to bloating...so gotta replace it with something, my OCD demands it hahaha!!


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Steady mate, your showing the sides pretty bad already next steps not pretty!


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> Steady mate, your showing the sides pretty bad already next steps not pretty!


I feel great mate tbh...better than great lol. Night sweats are really fvckin bad (and smelly), and although I'm getting to sleep ok I'm awake after a few hours.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

...I did kick off pretty serious at my boss last week tho lol....maybe this is not a good sign!!


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

stuey99 said:


> I feel great mate tbh...better than great lol. Night sweats are really fvckin bad (and smelly), and although I'm getting to sleep ok I'm awake after a few hours.


Exactly, I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to done mate. It's genuine concern cause I think your alright.

It was when you said before the sweating stinks, your system must be saturated already! Lack of sleep leads to mental issues, considering the state by your own admission you were in couple months ago, just be careful mate.


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## darren.1987 (Jan 2, 2013)

Too much too soon for the tren.. youll regret upping the dose once you add that tren ace in

you feel great now for a reason why add more gear now as its your first time using it.

and your only on tren e for one month! By week 6-8 id say youll get the anger problems etc big time

your choice like but why not use ace and tren e on your next blast of it so you dont wait for enanthate to kick in


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> Exactly, I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to done mate. It's genuine concern cause I think your alright.
> 
> It was when you said before the sweating stinks, your system must be saturated already! Lack of sleep leads to mental issues, considering the state by your own admission you were in couple months ago, just be careful mate.





darren.1987 said:


> Too much too soon for the tren.. youll regret upping the dose once you add that tren ace in
> 
> you feel great now for a reason why add more gear now as its your first time using it.
> 
> ...


Ok lads, you've convinced me. I appreciate the advice...I guess I've just had a taste and I want more lol. Pain2gain, what you're saying about the sweat makes total sense. I'll put the ace to one side for now.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

stuey99 said:


> Ok lads, you've convinced me. I appreciate the advice...I guess I've just had a taste and I want more lol. Pain2gain, what you're saying about the sweat makes total sense. I'll put the ace to one side for now.


Good decision! It was the sweat thing that sent my alarm bells off, been there and then beyond not pretty.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> Good decision! It was the sweat thing that sent my alarm bells off, been there and then beyond not pretty.


What would I be risking if I went over the top (def not doing the ace now, juxt curious lol)


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

I think it's safe to say this is the strongest I've ever been...the tren/oxy/mtren combo is giving me some unreal workouts, and the pump is so good I actually burst out of my favourite gym t shirt this morning haha!! Not the end of the world...it was getting kinda smelly anyway!!

I've gotta be honest tho, the lack of sleep is starting to get to me. I'm up at 4 every morning now and at the gym for 7. Combination of lack of sleep and early morning workout is sometimes making me feel a bit sick and having no energy for the rest of the day. I'm thinking I might benefit from dropping the oxys and mtren and just going with the ttm as I'm getting really bad stomach bloat now, will se how things go over the next few days.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Given it some thought...gonna drop the mtren and reduce oxy dose from 100mg ed to 50mg ed. Also gonna drop the npp in the hope of cutting down on nights sweats lol...and dropping RIP 450 from 1ml e3d to 2ml e7d, which will decrease dosages of each compound from 350mg ew to 300mg. Insomnia isn't that bad, it's really only the ridiculius night sweats that's making sleep difficult...hopefully this will help.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Given it some thought...gonna drop the mtren and reduce oxy dose from 100mg ed to 50mg ed. Also gonna drop the npp in the hope of cutting down on nights sweats lol...and dropping RIP 450 from 1ml e3d to 2ml e7d, which will decrease dosages of each compound from 350mg ew to 300mg. Insomnia isn't that bad, it's really only the ridiculius night sweats that's making sleep difficult...hopefully this will help.


As i said in the other thread take some time off too & no wonder you feel like dogturd when your doing mtren,oxy AND npp long side your apollo 450. Drop the npp & mtren & the anadrol completely mate.


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## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

Everything seems to be coming together at last!! Had to go back to a cruise a couple weeks ago due to a shoulder injury and unfortunately lost my job as well...but shoulder's on the mend and somehow just landed myself a trainee marketing managers job haha...happy fvckin days!!

I'm off the anti depresants as well, wedding and honeymoon's all sorted and paid for...couldn't be happier!! Got some peps on the way so hopefully they'll get my shoulder fully healed and I'll be back in the gym soon!!


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