# Starting first cycle with DNP



## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

I've been doing a lot of research into DNP, and feel there isn't a lot of info out there for women.

I'm a 19 yo girl weighing 87 kgs.

had problems with my weight for a long time and decided to take action against it.

have been going to the gym and doing 1hr cardio every other day and light weights the other days,

I've ordered 125mg DNP from DHacks.

I'm pretty sure i know what to do but if anyone could offer me any further advice as this will be my first time taking it.

I'm wanting to keep it at 125mg for quite a while, if anyone could suggest the best time to take it in the day and when to take and ECP stack (EPH 25+)

also if there are any other vitamins and supplement which will really help while taking it for about 14 days, and if this dose at this length of time will actually help in shifting some serious pounds?

thanks


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Women are at risk of getting cataracts when taking dnp. Vitamin c supplementation can lower the risk.

125mg will on average raise your metabolism by 15% so in 14 days I would not expect serious pounds.

What's is your goal weight? Have your sorted out a diet? What happens after you stop dnp?

You say you've struggled with your weight & I think dnp is the wrong choice. You need to adopt a lifestyle with better nutrition and exercise habits.


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

I'm thinking of 125mg because I'm worried about side effects, if i feel safe to up it to 250mg i think i would.

goal weight is around 65 kgs, perhaps more with muscle mass.

i perhaps worded that wrongly; i have struggled with weight in the past, over the last year i have lost a huge amount of weight and changed my diet completely, allowing me to loose this weight. i seem to have plateaud which is why i am turning to DNP.

I'll have to look at what happens after DNP, as to if the weight stays off or not.

thanks for your help!


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## Matthew5 (Mar 17, 2011)

If you have plateaued at 87kg you need to have a look at your diet. how many calories are you eating a day?


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

sophielmiller said:


> I'm thinking of 125mg because I'm worried about side effects, if i feel safe to up it to 250mg i think i would.
> 
> goal weight is around 65 kgs, perhaps more with muscle mass.
> 
> ...


I presume you got the pack of 50 tabs?

you could do 125 for a week and 250mg for 22days after...

you will need t3 supplementation of 50-100mcg/day and for a week after you stop


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

Matthew5 said:


> If you have plateaued at 87kg you need to have a look at your diet. how many calories are you eating a day?


I think she is going to do it regardless mate


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## Matthew5 (Mar 17, 2011)

johnnymctrance said:


> I think she is going to do it regardless mate


True! If shes not counting calories though (I presume she's eating too many) she will no doubt pile it all back on again a few months later!


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## havering (May 14, 2013)

Should look at diet and gym work before even touching DNP in my view, no point taking DNP if your diet and workouts aren't in check as it will render it pointless or not give you the full use of it


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

@DiggyV knows his stuff on DNP :thumbup1:


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

havering said:


> Should look at diet and gym work before even touching DNP in my view, no point taking DNP if your diet and workouts aren't in check as it will render it pointless or not give you the full use of it


i have, I'm on 1200 calories a day and already said about gym work.


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

Matthew5 said:


> If you have plateaued at 87kg you need to have a look at your diet. how many calories are you eating a day?


1200, really strict as well. and its not 1200 of **** if you know what i mean!!


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## havering (May 14, 2013)

sophielmiller said:


> i have, I'm on 1200 calories a day and already said about gym work.


Post a sample of what a typical day diet would be, you tracked them calories with myfitnesspal or something similar.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> *Women are at risk of getting cataracts when taking dnp. Vitamin c supplementation can lower the risk.*
> 
> 125mg will on average raise your metabolism by 15% so in 14 days I would not expect serious pounds.
> 
> ...


OK, lets inject a little experience and 3 years of research in here. The issue with cataracts and women was from the initial studies in the 1930s when DNP first came to prominence, and the differences between men and women were marginal. Also remember these people had a long and continuous exposure to DNP via inhalation. I am not discounting this but the risk is very small indeed.

Vitamin C should be used regardless, and in fact the following supplementation protocol should be used regardless of gender:

Vitamin C: 3000mg each day

Vitamin E: 800 i.u. each day

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA): 1200mg each day

Electrolytes: anything from Dioralyte through to Science in Sport GO! electrolytes - MY Protein electrolyte tablets are popular and relatively inexpensive

plus for women:

Pyruvate: 1200g a day - recommended - gives additional cataract protection, even though very low risk anyway - can be used instead of the ALA.



johnnymctrance said:


> I presume you got the pack of 50 tabs?
> 
> you could do 125 for a week and 250mg for 22days after...
> 
> you will need t3 supplementation of 50-100mcg/day and for a week after you stop


125mg in my experience yields a greater than 15% increase in metabolic rate after day 1, and I believe it increases around day 4/5 to be around 40% metabolic boost. 125mg can be run successfully for weight loss, and losses of around 0.3-0.5 lb fat per day are achieveble as I have done this on several occasions. However diet is absolutely critical - see later.

T3 is only needed at above 125mg DNP, IMO its not required at all at 125mg DNP. At 250mg DNP it needs to be 25-50mcg T3. 50-100mcg would only be needed if running upwards of 400mg DNP a day. T3 should be stopped as @johnnymctrance says about 5-7 days after your last dose. I would favour 5 days.

Also T3 needs to be split through the day.



havering said:


> Should look at diet and gym work before even touching DNP in my view, no point taking DNP if your diet and workouts aren't in check as it will render it pointless or not give you the full use of it


^^^ this is good advice. Your diet needs to be spot on for DNP to work. It is not a panacea for bad diet, in fact in a carb heavy diet it is still possible to gain fat, although an unpleasant experience. I know I've done it.

Basically your diet needs to look like this for DNP;

Cals: 500-600 below maintenance

Carbs: 100g or less a day - you will crave carbs on DNP - you MUST control this, or you will not lose anything.

protein: around 40% - 45% of cals

fats: make up the balance.

You need to time these carbs as well, to ensure you are fuelled for your workouts. So need to have some pre-workout, ideally a malto-dextrin, or dextrose based drink during workout and some more carbs post-workout.

Running low carbohydrates is essential for DNP to work correctly and efficiently. However this introduces the possibility of mild hypoglycaemic incidents. Basically your blood sugar levels drop, will feel like [email protected], light headed. Carry lucozade around with you - not the sport stuff, but proper sugar rich lucozade (original orange blackcurrant etc). If you start feeling basically really 'urgh', then a couple good swigs of this will bring you back up. You will come back naturally, but will take a while, lucozade is better.

Hope this helps, and any more questions, just reply in here.


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

DiggyV said:


> OK, lets inject a little experience and 3 years of research in here. The issue with cataracts and women was from the initial studies in the 1930s when DNP first came to prominence, and the differences between men and women were marginal. Also remember these people had a long and continuous exposure to DNP via inhalation. I am not discounting this but the risk is very small indeed.
> 
> Vitamin C should be used regardless, and in fact the following supplementation protocol should be used regardless of gender:
> 
> ...


really helpful thanks for taking your time to say this!!

could you help with a suggestion of what my maintenance cals would be??

I'm running on 1200 but know that a lot of people up theirs during DNP.

thanks again, really really appreciate this!!


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

sophielmiller said:


> really helpful thanks for taking your time to say this!!
> 
> could you help with a suggestion of what my maintenance cals would be??
> 
> ...


Its a mistake to increase cals during a DNP cycle, i decrease mine - I normally run 400 below when dieting, but run 600 below on DNP. However I modulate cals based on training. So eat more on a training day and less on a non-training day. Always stick to 600 below though.

Also I have seen a lot of information about increasing carbs, this comes from the fact that you get more heat when increasing carbs, however the heat is a by product of the DNP, but not a sign that you are burning more cals, in fact almost the opposite, particularly on a 125mg dose. DNP stop efficient energy production and forces teh body to use energy from fat stores rather than energy from carbohydrates and stored energy in glycogen. (I can supply as much science here as required, and to whatever depth needed - if you need more info). If you increase carbohydrates, you will eventually get to the position whee the DNP cannot deal with them, insulin gets released, ATP does get generated and carbs get shuttled to fat. So drop the cals and drop the carbs, as per previous message.

For a normal diet yours may actually strangely have been too low, which may explain the plateau. Your sedentary BMR is 2050 cals approximately. so 1400 would be a better choice IMO for DNP.


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> OK, lets inject a little experience and 3 years of research in here. The issue with cataracts and women was from the initial studies in the 1930s when DNP first came to prominence, and the differences between men and women were marginal. Also remember these people had a long and continuous exposure to DNP via inhalation. I am not discounting this but the risk is very small indeed.
> 
> Vitamin C should be used regardless, and in fact the following supplementation protocol should be used regardless of gender:
> 
> ...


Could i just ask regarding only having 100g carbs per day, if one was to begin only taking in 100g of carbs but was maintain on 400g carbs previous, wouldnt this lead to alot of catabolism?


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## havering (May 14, 2013)

Great post Diggy and when you say carb cravings, they are craving and a half, normally my diet is spot on, I was craving Subway like a lunatic while on DNP, I don't really know why, I never have Subway/


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

I go by conciliators posts, contact and research.

-15% metabolism increase on average per 100mg powder dnp (125mg crystal to take into account the sodium weight)

However tolerance varies in individuals.

-Dnp was pulled for the cataract risk and was much more apparent in women than men.

-The list of supplements is not needed.

- 100g of carbs? Where did that come from. Dnp works regardless of diet composition. Little below maintenance, sufficient protein and fill the rest of the kcals between fat and carb how u like. Moderation works.

- t3 is not needed. conciliator had a dr take dnp for 4months gradually increasing the dose to overcome the tolerance your body builds to dnp and he measures thyroid before during and after and was in range.

Agree to disagree


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

johnnymctrance said:


> Could i just ask regarding only having 100g carbs per day, if one was to begin only taking in 100g of carbs but was maintain on 400g carbs previous, wouldnt this lead to alot of catabolism?


Under normal circumstances possibly, and I only say possibly, and this would need to be someone on their way to a comp IMHO, who are unlikely to be on DNP anyway - although will be carb depleting at some point on their run-in to the show.

This is a serious question and genuinely not a dig - do you actually think you need to run 400g carbs to keep what you have right now? If that is you in the photo, then I seriously doubt it.

My normal diet only has 175g (ish) carbs in it a day, and I gain on this - in fact I manage to recomp with my diet protocol - and also don't see any catabolism when I drop to 100g. Depending on the DNP dose, if you load more carbs, you probably wont wont get them into your muscles on DNP they'll just get burned as heat in the mitochondria. with 400g carbs, you will get some across on 125mg, and maybe a very very small amount on 250mg. However the sides become terrible on high carbs. Putting the heat and continuous sweating to one side, you will also have very upset guts and spend a lot of time on the loo, with an almost 100% chance of 'sharting' if you risk if you try and release any wind. Its really not pleasant.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> I go by conciliators posts, contact and research.
> 
> -15% metabolism increase on average per 100mg powder dnp (125mg crystal to take into account the sodium weight)
> 
> ...


On the metabolic rate - have medical research papers that show an initial increase after a single dose of 15%, once you build up over the first 4 or 5 days it is well in excess of this, the straight maths on weight loss also support this.

The actual differences were 'statistically significant' - however this does not equate to significant, and is a mistake made regularly by people without a scientific background when reading scientific papers - and has been used by such charlatans as Dr Oz to perpetrate some of the greatest diet scams in the last 5-10 years. In all scientific research a statistical significance is anything that can be repeatably measured with a variance of 1% or greater. So the difference between women and men while statistically significant was not actually as significant as you would think it would be. Also it is worth noting that women that drink more than 2-3 units of alcohol a day have an increased risk of cataracts compared to their male counterparts. the main reason that DNP is currently not being pursued in its current form by the NHS is not because of cataracts, but because of the fact that the LD50 value is too close to the ED50 value. There is however research on going into a 'safe' version of DNP that self-caps its effect, independent of dose. So you only get a certain effect independent of how much you take. So no cooking alive.

On the supps - we will agree to disagree - there are damned good reasons for taking it which I established last year during some research with a bioChemist in Belgium last year. However dont have this data to hand right now.

On the carbs, you can run them high if you want, losses will be less I guarantee it, particularly on 125mg and possibly even 250mg. If you get your carbs high enough it is actually possible to gain fat on DNP - I know as I have done this, and have controlled data showing this. However above 100g of carbs the sides associated with upset guts become pretty bad, and in my opinion just not worth it.

In my experience the relief from taking T3 is almost instant when on 250mg, and gets rid of the end of day lethargy associated with Hypothyroidism. Again papers and research seem to suggest that DNP does effect deiodinase.

Also you don't get a tolerance to DNP, again any understanding of the biochemistry involved would show this to you almost immediately.

however as you say agree to disagree.....


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Under normal circumstances possibly, and I only say possibly, and this would need to be someone on their way to a comp IMHO, who are unlikely to be on DNP anyway - although will be carb depleting at some point on their run-in to the show.
> 
> This is a serious question and genuinely not a dig - do you actually think you need to run 400g carbs to keep what you have right now? If that is you in the photo, then I seriously doubt it.
> 
> My normal diet only has 175g (ish) carbs in it a day, and I gain on this - in fact I manage to recomp with my diet protocol - and also don't see any catabolism when I drop to 100g. Depending on the DNP dose, if you load more carbs, you probably wont wont get them into your muscles on DNP they'll just get burned as heat in the mitochondria. with 400g carbs, you will get some across on 125mg, and maybe a very very small amount on 250mg. However the sides become terrible on high carbs. Putting the heat and continuous sweating to one side, you will also have very upset guts and spend a lot of time on the loo, with an almost 100% chance of 'sharting' if you risk if you try and release any wind. Its really not pleasant.


No mate my maintence is not 400g of carbs, i just picked that number randomly... my maintence carbs is about 280g, but obv changes over time with changes in body weight etc..

In my case so, as i am planning to take dnp in the near future i would need to drop from 280ish to 100g, obv upping the protein and fat to leave and overall deficit of 500-600kcal below maintence?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

johnnymctrance said:


> No mate my maintence is not 400g of carbs, i just picked that number randomly... my maintence carbs is about 280g, but obv changes over time with changes in body weight etc..
> 
> In my case so, as i am planning to take dnp in the near future i would need to drop from 280ish to 100g, obv upping the protein and fat to leave and overall deficit of 500-600kcal below maintence?


400g is a lot of porridge :lol:

exactly how I run it. I drop from 175 to 100g, cals 400 below (sometimes 600), increase protein and fats. On 250mg a day I will lose just short of a pound of fat each day using this protocol.


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> 400g is a lot of porridge :lol:
> 
> exactly how I run it. I drop from 175 to 100g, cals 400 below (sometimes 600), increase protein and fats. On 250mg a day I will lose just short of a pound of fat each day using this protocol.


Just short of a a pound a day is very good mate, sounds almost to good to be true haha.. looking forward to it! Can i ask whats the longest run u have done on it?


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Great info as ever , cheers diggy


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

johnnymctrance said:


> Just short of a a pound a day is very good mate, sounds almost to good to be true haha.. looking forward to it! Can i ask whats the longest run u have done on it?


3 weeks buddy - its about all I can stand on 250mg. and the cravings are hell - would probably add 5mg sibutramine now if running again.


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> On the metabolic rate - have medical research papers that show an initial increase after a single dose of 15%, once you build up over the first 4 or 5 days it is well in excess of this, the straight maths on weight loss also support this.
> 
> The actual differences were 'statistically significant' - however this does not equate to significant, and is a mistake made regularly by people without a scientific background when reading scientific papers - and has been used by such charlatans as Dr Oz to perpetrate some of the greatest diet scams in the last 5-10 years. In all scientific research a statistical significance is anything that can be repeatably measured with a variance of 1% or greater. So the difference between women and men while statistically significant was not actually as significant as you would think it would be. Also it is worth noting that women that drink more than 2-3 units of alcohol a day have an increased risk of cataracts compared to their male counterparts. the main reason that DNP is currently not being pursued in its current form by the NHS is not because of cataracts, but because of the fact that the LD50 value is too close to the ED50 value. There is however research on going into a 'safe' version of DNP that self-caps its effect, independent of dose. So you only get a certain effect independent of how much you take. So no cooking alive.
> 
> ...


as I said in a diet slightly below maintenance with sufficient protein....carbs definitely do not have to be under 100g! your already eating a diet where you would lose fat without dnp (or should be).... Of course you can out eat dnp take calories high enough to overcompensate for the metabolic boost But I never said that.

I think cutting and tainter observed the rapidly occurring tolerance to dnp that can be overcome by slightly upping the dose or stopping dnp for at least 2weeks and then resuming. It was them or simkins I can't remember off hand but they had numerous case studies to back it up.

And I find it hard to believe anyone's losing 1lb of actual fat a day on 250mg! Without either caning hours of cardio, starving themselves or is massively obese to start with. 750mg and I'd say fair dos but 250mg is baby doses. If u were 400kcal below maintenance 250mg would be burning 3000kcals a day. More likely glycogen depletion


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## agentmrbean (Feb 11, 2014)

DiggV pretty much said everything, lol!

However, for appetite I suggest:

Intermittent Fasting. Eat all yoru food within 12-14 hour window

High Protein/High Fiber (veggies)

Ephedra/Ephedrine/Yohimbime/etc. type fat burner. Take 1 pill a day to start with. Stops appetite cold. Take with food. If it's too much, split into 1/2.

Liporidex on amazon is also real good I've heard.

125mg should be fine. Don't even think about going up in dosage until at least a week. When you increase dosage, all helll could break loose (it did for me at 250), so then take 2 days off and go back to 125.

Yep, 500 calorie deficit as others have mentioned. DNP will obliterate your fat to smithereens


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> as I said in a diet slightly below maintenance with sufficient protein....carbs definitely do not have to be under 100g! your already eating a diet where you would lose fat without dnp (or should be).... Of course you can out eat dnp take calories high enough to overcompensate for the metabolic boost But I never said that.
> 
> I think cutting and tainter observed the rapidly occurring tolerance to dnp that can be overcome by slightly upping the dose or stopping dnp for at least 2weeks and then resuming. It was them or simkins I can't remember off hand but they had numerous case studies to back it up.
> 
> *And I find it hard to believe anyone's losing 1lb of actual fat a day on 250mg! Without either caning hours of cardio, starving themselves or is massively obese to start with. 750mg and I'd say fair dos but 250mg is baby doses. If u were 400kcal below maintenance 250mg would be burning 3000kcals a day. More likely glycogen depletion*


Only going address the last one, as the first was covered before adequately, and the second; there are counter studies, showing linear effects on increasing dose with no tolerance.

ON your final point, not depletion, not obese, this has been observed by me on several occasions, and has been easily repeatable. I also know of other people with similar losses. Oh and not glycogen depletion either as this will only happen in the first few days.

Its not all as cut and dried as concilliator would have you believe it.


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

What about taking sibutramine to comabt carb cravings? or would the ECA stack be better? i just thought ECA would be overkill taking it with t3 and DNP??


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> Only going address the last one, as the first was covered before adequately, and the second; there are counter studies, showing linear effects on increasing dose with no tolerance.
> 
> ON your final point, not depletion, not obese, this has been observed by me on several occasions, and has been easily repeatable. I also know of other people with similar losses. Oh and not glycogen depletion either as this will only happen in the first few days.
> 
> Its not all as cut and dried as concilliator would have you believe it.


That's fine mate. It's your opinion tho.

I have used dnp plenty...personal for me (not anyone else) 125mg waste of time, 250mg alright for summer months, 375 is the best in terms of sides to fat loss ratio. 500 is my winter go to dose. 500 with meticulous diet and cardio will bring about 1lb a day weightloss. Not fatloss


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

johnnymctrance said:


> What about taking sibutramine to comabt carb cravings? or would the ECA stack be better? i just thought ECA would be overkill taking it with t3 and DNP??


 @Growing Lad


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

johnnymctrance said:


> @Growing Lad


If u can find decent Eca mate then it will massively help with lethargy and appetite.

I don't use t3 mate just dnp and Eca before cardio.

Sibutramine works but it made my taste buds go mental, everything tasted like it was smothered in salt and didn't go right for a couple weeks after stopping. Willpower is key mate


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

Growing Lad said:


> If u can find decent Eca mate then it will massively help with lethargy and appetite.
> 
> I don't use t3 mate just dnp and Eca before cardio.
> 
> Sibutramine works but it made my taste buds go mental, everything tasted like it was smothered in salt and didn't go right for a couple weeks after stopping. Willpower is key mate


Have you tried dhacks lab eca? i can get that, his other stuff seems pretty decent by what other people say on here so!


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> That's fine mate. It's your opinion tho.
> 
> I have used dnp plenty...personal for me (not anyone else) 125mg waste of time, 250mg alright for summer months, 375 is the best in terms of sides to fat loss ratio. 500 is my winter go to dose. 500 with meticulous diet and cardio will bring about 1lb a day weightloss. Not fatloss


As it is concilliators opinion also, by extension, as we have both researched extensively, and involved respected professionals in our research efforts.

I thought you may have been USA based given your dosages (it seems notoriously underdosed in the USA), however you are UK based. Hmmm.....

I only managed 500mg for 4 days was physically unable to carry on, 375 is pretty much unbearable for me and 250mg my goto dose - I guess this could all be down to a sensitivity issue, rather than a tolerance / build up issue. So how quickly the mitochondrial ATP generation is affected by dose may be linked to an individual. This kinda fits in as all PEDs seem to be like this also. This would also explain the discrepancies in some of the papers I have seen with regard to metabolic impact. With some stating 12% per 100mg in your system, and others ay 15% per 100mg ingested. With me I can say that I am the upper end without question.

All I know is that the losses I got were validated independently with callipers not just with me on a set of scales, with a final set of readings through a body pod session.


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

johnnymctrance said:


> Have you tried dhacks lab eca? i can get that, his other stuff seems pretty decent by what other people say on here so!


Yeh DH g2g if u can find it. I understand Eca won't be available anymore for certain reasons.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

johnnymctrance said:


> What about taking sibutramine to comabt carb cravings? or would the ECA stack be better? i just thought ECA would be overkill taking it with t3 and DNP??


I like sibutramine with DNP, seems to work well, also on doses above 250mg I do believe that T3 is needed (either as TriIodoThyronine[T3] or LioThyronine[Cytomel]).

Personally I dont like the idea of ECA with DNP, as your body is under enough stress as it is, without hitting the stims as well.


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> As it is concilliators opinion also, by extension, as we have both researched extensively, and involved respected professionals in our research efforts.
> 
> I thought you may have been USA based given your dosages (it seems notoriously underdosed in the USA), howeer you are UK based. Hmmm.....
> 
> ...


Yes definitely seems like individual tolerance. Last march I ran 500mg DH dnp for 15 days. It was hot but not unbearable I still went out and about. 750 I lasted 2days that was much. I actually ran 750 klona dnp eod last August! For a month before a late deal holiday. Worked well.

One thing that has me baffled tho is nausea. I never had it but the last couple cycles it's been the worst side effect, nothing has changed from before. Shed any light? Remedies?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> Yes definitely seems like individual tolerance. Last march I ran 500mg DH dnp for 15 days. It was hot but not unbearable I still went out and about. 750 I lasted 2days that was much. I actually ran 750 klona dnp eod last August! For a month before a late deal holiday. Worked well.
> 
> One thing that has me baffled tho is nausea. I never had it but the last couple cycles it's been the worst side effect, nothing has changed from before. Shed any light? Remedies?


On the nausea, I understand this has been the case, hits about 10 mins after ingesting, and lasts about 40 mins or so - sound about right?

Are you taking sibutramine as well?

As far as a remedy none spring to mind immediately, possibly milk may help. It could just be that they are dissolving quicker in the stomach and upsetting it, remembering that it is in the end a phenol, which we as humans dont handle too well.


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> I like sibutramine with DNP, seems to work well, also on doses above 250mg I do believe that T3 is needed (either as TriIodoThyronine[T3] or LioThyronine[Cytomel]).
> 
> Personally I dont like the idea of ECA with DNP, as your body is under enough stress as it is, without hitting the stims as well.


So what doses of sibutramine were u using? and was it dhacks lab you were using as that is the sibutramine i can get?


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> On the nausea, I understand this has been the case, hits about 10 mins after ingesting, and lasts about 40 mins or so - sound about right?
> 
> Are you taking sibutramine as well?
> 
> As far as a remedy none spring to mind immediately, possibly milk may help. It could just be that they are dissolving quicker in the stomach and upsetting it, remembering that it is in the end a phenol, which we as humans dont handle too well.


No sibutramine, dnp only. I think possibly the change to tabs vs caps?

Yeh bang on, really quick onset of nausea, horrible feeling. Gone in the hour. But gag at the thought of actually swallowing the dnp! Iv tried milk, oj, Pepsi max, tea (lol), with food, without food. Morning, night. Will just have to put up with it I guess.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

johnnymctrance said:


> So what doses of sibutramine were u using? and was it dhacks lab you were using as that is the sibutramine i can get?


5mg a day (half a tab) and yes the lab you state. 

dont take it too late though - it is a seratonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and chemically similar to Amphetamine, so take it too late in the day and you wont sleep....


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> No sibutramine, dnp only. I think possibly the change to tabs vs caps?
> 
> Yeh bang on, really quick onset of nausea, horrible feeling. Gone in the hour. But gag at the thought of actually swallowing the dnp! Iv tried milk, oj, Pepsi max, tea (lol), with food, without food. Morning, night. Will just have to put up with it I guess.


sounds awfully familiar mate.... And I reached for the Pepsi max too


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> 5mg a day (half a tab) and yes the lab you state.
> 
> dont take it too late though - it is a seratonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and chemically similar to Amphetamine, so take it too late in the day and you wont sleep....


Thats great mate think il get some of that so!!!


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## agentmrbean (Feb 11, 2014)

btw: Found a great recent study on DNP from Harvard. Worth a read. Also hallmarks the great advantages of DNP.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2880836/


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

Took my first 125mg yesterday, felt no sides or anything really.

Taken my second one today and definitely feeling the heat!!!

I've been really looking into my diet, and based on what great help diggy v gave me, I'm finding it hard to up my protein intake.

The carb side of things is fine and I'm finding that really easy to keep under 100g.

So I'm wanting a bit of guidance as to whether a diet whey preteen shake would be beneficial? or should i just keep the low cal and low carb diet running through the cycle?

thanks!!!


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## havering (May 14, 2013)

You won't feel the heat and sides much till a few days in as DNP builds up.

If you want a shake, just buy normal whey, diet protein is pretty much a fad with a higher price point. During my DNP and others have kept protein high, so nothing wrong with having a whey shake if it fits your macros.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

sophielmiller said:


> Took my first 125mg yesterday, felt no sides or anything really.
> 
> Taken my second one today and definitely feeling the heat!!!
> 
> ...


get an isolate from one of the forum sponsors :thumbup1:


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

ewen said:


> get an isolate from one of the forum sponsors :thumbup1:


isolate???


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

sophielmiller said:


> isolate???


http://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/impact-whey-isolate/10530911.html


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

havering said:


> You won't feel the heat and sides much till a few days in as DNP builds up.
> 
> If you want a shake, just buy normal whey, diet protein is pretty much a fad with a higher price point. During my DNP and others have kept protein high, so nothing wrong with having a whey shake if it fits your macros.


ok that won't make me gain weight?? don't want to be really muscly!!


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## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

sophielmiller said:


> ok that won't make me gain weight?? don't want to be really muscly!!


Its pretty much a steroid..


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## smaj210 (Aug 1, 2009)

To read up later


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## Fiahh (May 7, 2009)

sophielmiller said:


> ok that won't make me gain weight?? don't want to be really muscly!!


Using DNP and this is what you are asking? C'mon!

I've never seen such a new thread with so much DNP info, and you are asking basic things you should know. Ugh.


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

Fiahh said:


> Using DNP and this is what you are asking? C'mon!
> 
> I've never seen such a new thread with so much DNP info, and you are asking basic things you should know. Ugh.


I'm pretty sure i started this thread having stated that id done research into DNP. I'm not a body builder and have lost over 4 stone going to the gym and changing my diet. i haven't ever been out to bulk up on muscle or anything.

my last question was about getting extra protein for the diet, and whether a shake would actually be beneficial. I wasn't out to be critiqued by you nor anyone else, perhaps rather than criticising you could have helped. really unhelpful from you when all I've had so far is really helpful advice and support.


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## havering (May 14, 2013)

sophielmiller said:


> ok that won't make me gain weight?? don't want to be really muscly!!


You won't gain weight unless over your maintenance calories and on DNP there isn't much chance of that, you won't build any muscle on DNP anyway as your BMR will be too high, the protein is there to try and maintain muscle, as well as that it has a satiety rating which is good as you will be craving carbs.


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## sophielmiller (Mar 17, 2014)

havering said:


> You won't gain weight unless over your maintenance calories and on DNP there isn't much chance of that, you won't build any muscle on DNP anyway as your BMR will be too high, the protein is there to try and maintain muscle, as well as that it has a satiety rating which is good as you will be craving carbs.


Thanks a lot!!!


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## Fiahh (May 7, 2009)

My point is that if you are researching and using something like DNP you'd fully well know a protein shake a) won't make you gain weight B) wouldn't make you muscly.

I'm trying to say is your diet on track before going near DNP, that comment you made makes me think it isn't... In which case no dnp will save you from a bad diet.

Post 12 asked for you to post your diet, can't see no post from you showing what you eat? What are your macros?

You get the point I'm trying to make, hopefully.


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