# Fella Died in my arms at gym last night.



## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

What a nightmare last night was at the gym whilst I was working some old fella "About 50yrs old" was doing some over head barbell presses and suddenly collapsed with heart attack.

When I got him he was white as a sheet then turned deep purple, I gave him CPR with three other friends taking it in turn as it was very tiring doing 100 compressions to every 2 breaths.

We rang the ambulance strait away and the hospital is only 5 mins up the road but they still took half hour to find us.

For this half hour the man had no pulse and wasn't breathing but kept been sick, he was totally unconscious with his eyes open but unresponsive.

Unfortunately his son was training with him at the time and saw it all.

Im dreading the next time his son comes in in case he thinks I didn't do enough to help his dad.

I opened the gym this morning to clear all the sick up and plastic wrappers from the syringes and pipes that the paramedics used, wasn't a nice sight.

Moral to the story is you never know when you wake up that that day mint be your last so dont take it for granted and make the best of it.


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## RFC52 (Jan 4, 2011)

That's horrible that his son was there to see it. I'm sure he saw that you guys were doing everything you could to help him.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

best to have regular checkups at that age,,dude must have been awfull.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Sh*t mate !

You did your best and thats all you can do.

Its not going to be easy but in time you will realise this.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

mal said:


> best to have regular checkups at that age,,dude must have been awfull.


yeh definitely mate, he had no previous heart problems but high blood pressure.

@JF196 I was just angry the ambulance took so long to get here


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Im dreading the next time his son comes in in case he thinks I didn't do enough to help his dad.


He won't.

Sounds like you're questioning yourself over your actions when you don't need to mate. A lot of people panic and would just freeze. You didn't. You tried. OK, it didn't work out but reading your post, that's not your fault and you should be able to sleep well knowing you did your best.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

mal said:


> best to have regular checkups at that age,,dude must have been awfull.


My family have a history of heart attacks, grandad died at 42, dad had 2 at 49.

I went to the docs as " advised " and his exact words were " what do you want ? " " do you want me to tell you when your gonna have a heat attack or die because if l could do that l would be a rich man " " if you eat healthy, dont drink or smoke excessively and stay fit you have as much chance as the next man "

TBH he had a fair point, they cant predict anything really.


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## sockie (Jul 1, 2012)

Hard luck mate,I don't think the son will be upset at you guys,It could have happened while he was driving home and it might have been a lot worse,dont beat yourself up


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> He won't.
> 
> Sounds like you're questioning yourself over your actions when you don't need to mate. A lot of people panic and would just freeze. You didn't. You tried. OK, it didn't work out but reading your post, that's not your fault and you should be able to sleep well knowing you did your best.


Thanks The cheese @Milky No I guess not but they could keep regular check on blood pressure and ECG's every few months to the prone.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

That's abit ruff that, you tried mate, when its your time its your time, RIP


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> yeh definitely mate, he had no previous heart problems but high blood pressure.
> 
> @JF196 I was just angry the ambulance took so long to get here


Theres a couple very big ex powerlifters in my gym ,over 50...there over 20 stone still on gear .

One was benching the other day up to 230 odd..he didnt look well between sets is an

understatement,in the bog puking as well...alot of stress at that age,fvck that.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Thanks The cheese @Milky No I guess not but they could keep regular check on blood pressure and ECG's every few months to the prone.


Yeah but bottom line mate is no one has a crystal ball.

You did your best and has been already stated lots of people would have just froze. Do not beat youraelf up about it mate.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Thats really sad indeed tho at 50 i wouldnt class that as an old boy,,very young to be passing away.

I remember in the early 90s in our gym a guy at 18 years old doing his normal workout then going into have a shower and suddenly dropped with a massive heart attack.

It can happen to any age at any time,,as said cherish each day you wake up and try to be happy even when you feel a bit down.

Well done to the op for all he done to help the man,,if anything the son will be proud of you.

Its natural to feel you never done enough in a situation like that.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Milky said:


> Yeah but bottom line mate is no one has a crystal ball.
> 
> You did your best and has been already stated lots of people would have just froze. Do not beat youraelf up about it mate.


Yeh true Milky I Know its just one of them things, like said its his son that will be feeling it now but ill have to now forget about it and put it all in my little box of life experiences


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Milky said:


> My family have a history of heart attacks, grandad died at 42, dad had 2 at 49.
> 
> I went to the docs as " advised " and his exact words were " what do you want ? " " do you want me to tell you when your gonna have a heat attack or die because if l could do that l would be a rich man " " if you eat healthy, dont drink or smoke excessively and stay fit you have as much chance as the next man "
> 
> TBH he had a fair point, they cant predict anything really.


wurd,,my dad died of a hearta, so it plays on the mind,my brothers been ill lately too,so its changed me alot i suppose.

im happy being the size i am, less or no gear.. i rearly drink now and dont smoke,so cant do anymore than that.


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## guvnor82 (Oct 23, 2011)

Sorry to here that m8 sounds like you did all you could and sure his son will shake your hand next time he sees you.

Guess when your times up its up. At least he died doing something he enjoyed lot worse ways to go.


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## rchippex (Jan 20, 2012)

That's a real shame. I really feel for you. You did well by giving it your best shot to help him out. Just remember that even in hospitals sometimes doctors and nurses with all their equipment are unable to resuscitate people from cardiac arrests. There is only so much you can do and sometimes they are just unresponsive.

Out of interest was the guy overweight or anything?


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

Sorry to hear about it OP.


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## Big_Idiot (Feb 14, 2012)

Sorry to hear mate, at least you know you tried all you could. It was just his time, and just makes a very unfortunate situation.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

rchippex said:


> That's a real shame. I really feel for you. You did well by giving it your best shot to help him out. Just remember that even in hospitals sometimes doctors and nurses with all their equipment are unable to resuscitate people from cardiac arrests. There is only so much you can do and sometimes they are just unresponsive.
> 
> Out of interest was the guy overweight or anything?


Thanks mate, he wasnt obesse but carried the usual fat arround, id say about 525 and 13 stone at a guess mainly fat


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## tylerx (Feb 20, 2008)

I am indeed sorry to hear of recent events. However I do commend you for sharing your story but more importantly for your quick response and efforts. You and your team did all you could do in the time given and it is not your fault that this story did not have a fairy-tale ending. His son will understand this and in my humble opinion he too will be grateful for your efforts.

The reality remains; we are all going to pass on at point or another and in various forms, and before such a point it is impertative to ensure we have lived a life fulfilled.


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## diddler (Nov 12, 2011)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> What a nightmare last night was at the gym whilst I was working some old fella "About 50yrs old" was doing some over head barbell presses and suddenly collapsed with heart attack.
> 
> When I got him he was white as a sheet then turned deep purple, I gave him CPR with three other friends taking it in turn as it was very tiring doing 100 compressions to every 2 breaths.
> 
> ...


You couldn't have done any more than you did. Effective CPR has been shown to be most important part of any resuscitation. The fact you took it in turns meant that you were not getting tired and could still perform good, effective CPR.

Don't worry about it, you couldn't have done any more than you did.


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow, that must have been terrible mate. well done for trying. I would struggle emotionally to deal with something like this.


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## Jay_1986 (Jan 20, 2011)

Horrible situation, but it sounds like you acted in the best way you possibly could given the circumstances. I'm sure his son appreciates all your effort, unfortunately some times it's out of your control.

Very scary how quickly something like this can happen.


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## huge monguss (Apr 5, 2011)

Similar thing happened to me in the gym and i did freeze! was extreamly lucky that one of the guys training was a doctor and was straight on it but you do learn from your mistakes and i know if in that situation again i would not hesitate but you did the right thing and did your best was just unlucky that the guy died and to be fair the ambulance should of got there sooner but i woulnt blame your self even the best medical practitioner's in the world loose pateints but in my situation if the guy did die i would not of been able to forgive my self


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Sad story mate. Sounds like you really did your best and you should be proud of your actions.


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## Mshadows (Mar 16, 2012)

Terrible situation to be in dude, you did well.

Don't blame yourself.


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Sorry to hear it mate, sounds like an awful experience, also sounds like you couldn't have done any more for the guy so don't beat yourself up about it.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

You did your best to revive him, it is a truly terrible thing when someone dies in front of you.

You may find that this will affect you, in different ways for some time.

I'm very concerned about the response time of the paras, but that won't bring him back.

Perhaps one thing we can all do, is to do a basic first aid course, & learn how to do CPR.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

latblaster said:


> You did your best to revive him, it is a truly terrible thing when someone dies in front of you.
> 
> You may find that this will affect you, in different ways for some time.
> 
> ...


thanks mate and just to let everyone know his son has just come in to thank us for our efforts which was gladly received and made me feel better.

Iv got my first aid but i did it alot of years ago so it would effectively be out of date now "Is that my responsibility or the owners"

2 girls that helped out came in also this morning to cancel there memberships as they were not happy with how we handled it and the fact we didn't have de fib ect, They said it wasnt aimed at me but the buisiness owner should of been prepaired for this.

I hope this doesnt go further with an enquiry into the matter.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> thanks mate and just to let everyone know his son has just come in to thank us for our efforts which was gladly received and made me feel better.
> 
> Iv got my first aid but i did it alot of years ago so it would effectively be out of date now "Is that my responsibility or the owners"
> 
> ...


I have never seen a defibrillator at a gym, that's a silly reason to hand their membership in! You done your best mate, his son is happy with your efforts, that's all u need to worry about!! Good on you.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> I have never seen a defibrillator at a gym, that's a silly reason to hand their membership in! You done your best mate, his son is happy with your efforts, that's all u need to worry about!! Good on you.


What about my first aid certificate been invalid, would i get into trouble for that do you think?


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> thanks mate and just to let everyone know his son has just come in to thank us for our efforts which was gladly received and made me feel better.
> 
> Iv got my first aid but i did it alot of years ago so it would effectively be out of date now "Is that my responsibility or the owners"
> 
> ...


Those girls are overreacting.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

If you had defib's at the gym, someone would need to be trained to use it etc, it's not as simple as simply having one there. Silly reason to leave tbh, and I think it's probably more about the shock of it all that they did than anything else.

You did a lot more than some people would have m8, keeping calm in those situations and going through the right procedures isn't something ppl can do when they are not used to it. Props to you m8, you did your best and that's all you could have done.

When your times up, your times up.

As for personal health, I am not really bothered when I go, I just don't want to cause ppl distress when I do. If I dropped dead in a gym, i'd hate to think of the people who had to deal with it tbh, i'd sooner go in bed alone peacefully.

Knowing my luck i'd collapse on the treadmill and end up catapulted into the shoulder press machine.


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## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

It sounds like you done your best and more and you should be proud that you gave every effort to save him.

Still sh1tty for you though


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> What about my first aid certificate been invalid, would i get into trouble for that do you think?


Does it state in your contract that you have to have an up to date first aid certificate ? I doubt it, so don't worry about it.


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> What about my first aid certificate been invalid, would i get into trouble for that do you think?


It depends if its your call to make sure its in-date. It would usually be the gyms responsibility. You should relax and feel proud you did all you could for the him. Like someone here said, most people would freeze in that situation - you tried to save a mans life.


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## &lt;JAY_JAY&gt; (Jan 4, 2007)

Nightmare that, you did all you could do pal, maybe if the response team had got there quicker who knows, that was out of your hands, just a shame both you and his son have had to go throught that, like ya say you never no, just nipping to the gym flower be an hour, and never came back


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## BoxerJay (Jan 11, 2011)

That's terrible ;/ - You responded well though mate, if only there where more like you in the world.

(I was always taught 30 chest compressions to 2 rescue breaths, never heard of 100 before)


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## Fullhouse (Mar 31, 2010)

At least you tried mate alot of people wouldn't even try. My granda died in his forties with a massive heart attack on his way to work one morning and my bro had one 6 months ago, he was dead 3 times but only survived as he was in the hospital at the time.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> What about my first aid certificate been invalid, would i get into trouble for that do you think?


I doubt it but surely a family member would need to pursue a legal battle and it sounds like they are happy with ur efforts!


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Natty.Solider said:


> It depends if its your call to make sure its in-date. It would usually be the gyms responsibility. You should relax and feel proud you did all you could for the him. Like someone here said, most people would freeze in that situation - you tried to save a mans life.


I dont even have a contract mate and when i did my first aid years ago it was with a different business.

@OldManRiver I was de fib trained but it was a long time ago.

Thanks for all the support guys


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> thanks mate and just to let everyone know his son has just come in to thank us for our efforts which was gladly received and made me feel better.
> 
> Iv got my first aid but i did it alot of years ago so it would effectively be out of date now "Is that my responsibility or the owners"
> 
> ...


mate dont beat yourself up and i think the 2 girls freaked out as lets face it they could of helped .

nothing can prepare you for someone dying unless trained for it like police fire or parmedic type of people and even then it`ll still mess with you .

you did what you could , i did a brief first aid bit only learning what to do if someone needs the kiss of life and all you can do is pump the heart keeping oxygen in the blood until the paras come and difib them so to people that dont know it looks like your doing nothing when actually your keeping the brain alive .

i was first at the scene of a biker hitting a truck head on so know what its like having someone die literally in your arms and although you know its not your fault and theres nothing you could of done you still blame yourself .

end of the day you tried when others didnt .


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

BoxerJay said:


> That's terrible ;/ - You responded well though mate, if only there where more like you in the world.
> 
> (I was always taught 30 chest compressions to 2 rescue breaths, never heard of 100 before)


Thats hat I thought mate but thats what the emergancy responce told us to do on the phone, she sounded like she was reading it out of a manual


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## BoxerJay (Jan 11, 2011)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Thats hat I thought mate but thats what the emergancy responce told us to do on the phone, she sounded like she was reading it out of a manual


Well they're the experts at the end of the day  - Maybe it's taught as 30 due to your average person not being able to do 100 consecutively over and over again?


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> I dont even have a contract mate and when i did my first aid years ago it was with a different business.
> 
> @OldManRiver I was de fib trained but it was a long time ago.
> 
> Thanks for all the support guys


Then to me, it sounds like you did more than someone would have who was contracted there. The fact you had 1st aid training is something a lot of us can't say, I know I can't, I really should do something about that.

You administered CPR, the exact thing that was needed, and that's all you could have done. And for that you should be commended. Just sorry it had to happen in the 1st place really,.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

BoxerJay said:


> Well they're the experts at the end of the day  - Maybe it's taught as 30 due to your average person not being able to do 100 consecutively over and over again?


i was told 30-2 few weeks back and to do it along to the beat of staying alive fcuking ironic or what .


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

I don't understand that "to the best of staying alive" business. What if you are someone who has no sense of tempo. You could be compressing their chest like a jackhammer.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I was trained not to do the breaths any more, just the pump


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

ewen said:


> i was told 30-2 few weeks back and to do it along to the beat of staying alive fcuking ironic or what .


Thats the way I was taught.

DR - ABC

Danger (check for danger, dont become a casualty yourself)

Response (give command, pinch etc)

Airways (Check airways, tilt head back)

Breathing (Ear over mouth listen and look down chest wall for movement)

CPR (Begins, dont stop until relieved by paramedic, 30 / 2, to staying alive)


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

I still think the old style CPR is the better than the one they advertised with Vinny Jones. I would still administer mouth to mouth if their airway was clear. It was 3 sets of 10 and then BREATH , IIRC


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

The hands only CPR is an avoidance for HEP C and HIV etc, anything that can be transfered


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

:lol:


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

you dont need to breathe into them as the compression sucks air in .


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Dave said:


> The hands only CPR is an avoidance for HEP C and HIV etc, anything that can be transfered


Ah so I was probably taught that and in not going mental lol


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Jesus...

If anything mate, his son will probably thank you for trying! Can't imagine what that situation must've been like for everyone involved.


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

If its worth anything the training i have done for first aid several months back dictates 30 compressions and 2 rescue breaths but the rescue breaths are optional. This was based on the fact you could of contracted an illness or disease that could be passed through saliva i.e. hepatitis. Not being funny but the last training course i did told you what would happen if you did do the breaths and why a face mask was pretty much essential.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

Things like this scare me so much. R.I.P to the bloke that died. Hope you feel better soon OP, must be hard x


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## loganator (Mar 19, 2011)

hi mate from what i can gather you are not legaly required to have an aed on site ..... have a read of this

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/legal.pdf

It's unfortunate that it happened but you clearly followed instructions given to you by emergency services ......

I think the two women who have handed in there memberships have over reacted or are frightened of any responsibility being put on them so they have decided to show which side of the line they are saying they are not happy with how it was dealt with and dissasociating themselves with the incident.

To be honest i think it's natural to ask your self if you did enough as a life has been lost but you did all you could and the guys sons opinion clearly reflects that fact ,

You are not to blame mate ......


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## Kemot (Oct 2, 2012)

I was a big smoker , and I gave up. I've got father in hospital and he is fighting with cancer now --- he was dinking couple of beers a day smoking more than one pack a day. He was very good powerlifter but was never looking after his health and taking for granted . :sad:. It is sad. But we should all make the most of our life and treat our body with respect - don't abuse it ! Many people are scare of routine checks but we should do it every 6months. even often if you take a gear.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi everyone and thanks for the kind support, Im just opening this thread again for an update as Ive just had a visit from the health and safety ppl at work asking me loads of questions about the night it hapened.

We did not have a complete first aid kit, I didnt know where the accident book was and I am nearly sure my first aid is over due for renewal.

I was also never given any emergency training by the employer.

So what do you think will happen next Im pretty sure im ok and its the bosses responsibility but I just hope the gym is safe as this is my dream job.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

hope it turns out ok mate. I doubt there was anymore that could of been done. other than ambulance turning up quicker

My crappy gym does have a defibrillator god knows if anyone would know how to use it though


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> hope it turns out ok mate. I doubt there was anymore that could of been done. other than ambulance turning up quicker
> 
> My crappy gym does have a defibrillator god knows if anyone would know how to use it though


Thanks mate, Im hoping aslong as they see we are taking action by doing refreshers first aid, get a new first aid box ect then it will all blow over.

I think thy only came cos of them 2 fat b1tches that was complaining


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

most likely. bit of a crap situation if you get any flack but if you do make sure you get some support especially as the son was grateful for your help. hopefully it wont go any further.


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## learnerdrover (Apr 8, 2010)

Harsh thing for you to have to deal with. A few years a go i worked in a pub and something similar happened. A guy had a stroke and swallowed his tongue, i had zero training in first aid but managed to pull his tongue from down his throat so he could breath. had no idea if i was doing the right thing but he was going purple and i could not just wait for an ambulance. Bloody horrible to deal with.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Hi everyone and thanks for the kind support, Im just opening this thread again for an update as Ive just had a visit from the health and safety ppl at work asking me loads of questions about the night it hapened.
> 
> We did not have a complete first aid kit, I didnt know where the accident book was and I am nearly sure my first aid is over due for renewal.
> 
> ...


Believe it not, I'm pretty sure that there's no law saying that an appointed First Aider needs training. Courses are available, but they're optional.

The First Aid box isn't a problem either - there's no mandatory list of contents.

As long as there's an Accident Book on site, I don't see your not knowing where it's kept being a major problem. The manager should fill that out anyway and not the First Aider.


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## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

How very sad for all concerned and I have taken a hard look at my own life, I am making moves to enjoy life and do all I WANT TO for ME, I do intend to be selfish for a change.

We have just one attempt at life, I have given all my life so now its my time to take, sit back and just enjoy

kaza


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## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> Believe it not, I'm pretty sure that there's no law saying that an appointed First Aider needs training. Courses are available, but they're optional.
> 
> The First Aid box isn't a problem either - there's no mandatory list of contents.
> 
> As long as there's an Accident Book on site, I don't see your not knowing where it's kept being a major problem. The manager should fill that out anyway and not the First Aider.


Legally you should consider that once you step in and get involved YOU ARE TREATED AS AN EXPERT, which can leave you open to claims later on if they can prove that you failed ....

The law is such an oddity at times in England and Wales

here is info for those who have a business

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse41.pdf

In the event of injury or sudden illness, failure to provide first aid could result in a casualty's death. The employer should ensure that an employee who is injured or taken ill at work receives immediate attention.

HSE will prosecute in cases where there is a significant risk, a disregard for established standards or persistent poor compliance with the law.The Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981 require employers to provide adequate and appropriate equipment, facilities and personnel to ensure their employees receive immediate attention if they are injured or taken ill at work. These Regulations apply to all workplaces including those with less than five employees and to the self-employed...http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l74.htm

kaza


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Terrible story there mate

Respect to you and our friends on tryin to keep the chap alive man

Something i hope i never have to do


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## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

If that was my dad mate first thing I'd do is give you a ****in big cuddle and thank you enormously for your help. Well done mate


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Fit4life said:


> Legally you should consider that once you step in and get involved YOU ARE TREATED AS AN EXPERT, which can leave you open to claims later on if they can prove that you failed ....
> 
> The law is such an oddity at times in England and Wales
> 
> ...


Not really relevant for two reasons:

One: there's no law been broken that I'm aware of.

Two: that's regarding the employer/employee relationship. In this case, the victim was a customer of the business.

And in this case, not having an accident book to hand, a full first aid kit or someone with uptodate first aid training wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome, so any serious court action would be unlikely to succeed. A complainant would have to show that the victim would have survived the heart attack if those things were present.

I should just clarify about the statement I made earlier regarding an "Appointed First Aider". I should have said an "Appointed Person". Often, there's no need for a qualified First Aider and therefore someone is appointed to do the job. That person does not have to have undertaken training. A qualified First Aider obviously needs to have been trained.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks mate im happy in myself that I did all I could, Its just down to the paper work now and the sniffing health n safety people sticking there noses in


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## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

Ia m sure the OP is interested in his legal status regards the gym he owns, he does i trust have employees, he is fully aware I am sure of his legal position regards the public to which with 1st aid he has no duty of care to provide, BUT he does have an extended duty of care once HE STEPS in and acts. So in law you are damned if you dont act and thus damned if you do...

I would tread carefully when treating any first aid patient if you have no training , even with training you will be regarded in law the same way as an expert, anomaly YES absolutely

If he has the HSA sniffing it is always beneficial to have at hand their own regulations and ask them to refer to each specific regulation when talking with you, better to knowledgable with the HSA may save you a fortune in both legal bills and potential issues .... But then I am always guarded dealing with statutory bodies !

kaza


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## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

The Health and Safety (First-Aid) Regulations 1981 place a duty on employers to provide adequate first aid equipment, facilities and personnel to their employees. However, this obligation under these Regulations does not extend to non-employees, including members of the public. Similarly, there is no requirement to cater for the first aid needs of the public under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974. In the Act, first aid is included under 'welfare facilities' to be made available to 'persons at work'.

kaza


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Fit4life said:


> Ia m sure the OP is interested in his legal status regards the gym he owns, he does i trust have employees, he is fully aware I am sure of his legal position regards the public to which with 1st aid he has no duty of care to provide, BUT he does have an extended duty of care once HE STEPS in and acts. So in law you are damned if you dont act and thus damned if you do...
> 
> I would tread carefully when treating any first aid patient if you have no training , even with training you will be regarded in law the same way as an expert, anomaly YES absolutely
> 
> kaza


Hi mate I dont own the gym I jus work here, Ive looked into it and it seems someone with no first aid is under no obligation to give it but should be Ok to give it if the situation is life threatening, The legal bit comes in if you tried but acted with misconduct and you left the person in a worse state than he was already in, In this case he was already not breathing when I got to him


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## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

OK to date has been no case by the CPS re treating by a samaritan so to speak, but that is of course as in most law changeable as it is down to interpretation and case law. Providing you stick to what you know and dont exceed that you will always be ok, its when we try to copy what we see on TV then hey oops....

You did a great job and should be very proud to have cared for this individual, there may of course be times over the few months to follow that you will get sad, if you do please seek help, I have seen it a few times and we often forget the person attempting to save an individuals life is just human and is likely to feel disappointed. well done for caring.

kaza


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## NO-IDEA (Jun 28, 2012)

Its entirely the employers responsibility to ensure there is people within the company within are adequately trained in first aid. If legal action was taken it would fall completely on the gym owner, our company spends 1000s on training and courses. Money at which I often moan at, but is so incredibly important to spend.. in this day and age. Lots of claims and red tape.

You tried your best, many wouldn't even try.


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Well done mate, CPR is a tough lifeline to deliver and no doubt you tried your best.

Just to put things into perspective CPR is all about preserving the state of the brain, alot of people are disappointed that they can't bring someone "back to life" like in the films. I'm sure you already knew this but thought it was worthwhile pointing out that you did everything you could until expert help arrived.

Best of luck with the H&S side of things.


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## rich-k- (Sep 18, 2012)

end of the day bud you had the balls to attempt to save the mans life! so hats off too you mate you really did your best, feel so sorry for his poor lad, my dads 51 next month and trains like an abseloute animal always scared something like that would happen to him but hes as strong as an ox lol


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

I i really dont know what to say except that you did everything you could do and your a saint for doing so !


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## TryingToGetBig (May 20, 2010)

In the army, I get told 30 compressions to 2 breaths but after reading this I googled it and found this....

CPR involves chest compressions at least 5*cm deep and at a rate of at least 100 per minute in an effort to create artificial circulation by manually pumping blood through the heart. In addition, the rescuer may provide breaths by either exhaling into the subject's mouth or nose or utilizing a device that pushes air into the subject's lungs.

And

Push down in the center of the chest 2 inches 30 times. Pump hard and fast at the rate of at least 100/minute, faster than once per second.

I think as long as your pumping the heart at a steady rhythm it's ok, untill professional help arrives.

Also nice one for helping him out, I've had to do it before (not in gym) and its not a pleasant experience .


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## secla (Jun 1, 2011)

good luck to those girls trying to find a gym with a defib machine

ive never heard of any gym gaving one.

sounds like you did all you could mate and thats all anyone can ever ask.


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

You done your best mate, good man, it's very sad when someone passes in front of you R.I.P


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

I've done quite a few first aid courses and perhaps the most valuable single lesson I learnt was:

If the casualty is not breathing and has no pulse, he's dead. Sounds obvious but the point is this. He can't get any worse and nothing you might do can make him worse. Yet so many people are afraid to try and help in case they get it wrong. You did more than most by doing what you could for him.

As you hopefully know, without a defib, all you can do for a CA is hope to keep the brain supplied with oxygen until a defib can be applied. You will not resuscitate a CA casualty through CPR alone. Never give up though until the paramedics arrive. This story shows just how long CPR can be effective:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/96-minute-cpr-marathon-saves-minnesota-mans-life/story?id=13048099#.UJrTnIfcm4x


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