# "If it fits your macros"



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Anyone a follower of this?

I find it hard to gain any kind of weight, so lately I've been throwing in stuff like KFC, McDonalds, Pizza etc to up the kcals and hit my target macros of around 3,000cals at least.

I also eat healthy so it's junk mixed with cleaner foods. Some people swear by this approach to pack on size, just wondering what opinions on here are...


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## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

IIFYM is really just the application of common sense to nutrition. The ultimate determinant of whether you are going to gain or lose weight is your caloric surplus or deficit.

As long as you have a good macro split, and the majority of your diet is made up of good quality wholefoods with plenty of fruit/veg, I can't see anything wrong with topping up your calories with a bit of 'junk'.

I've said it before & will say it again - a pizza is not that much different from a pasta dish in terms of basic ingredients or nutrient breakdown, yet one is usually considered filthy junk food & the other as a perfectly acceptable meal for an athlete.


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Andy 67 said:


> IIFYM is really just the application of common sense to nutrition. The ultimate determinant of whether you are going to gain or lose weight is your caloric surplus or deficit.
> 
> As long as you have a good macro split, and the majority of your diet is made up of good quality wholefoods with plenty of fruit/veg, I can't see anything wrong with topping up your calories with a bit of 'junk'.
> 
> I've said it before & will say it again - a pizza is not that much different from a pasta dish in terms of basic ingredients or nutrient breakdown, yet one is usually considered filthy junk food & the other as a perfectly acceptable meal for an athlete.


Makes sense. I was talking more frozen pizzas which I assume aren't great? Can make some great pizzas yourself I'm sure.


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

3,000 calories isn't a lot L Man, even when eating clean. So I don't see why you need to top up with junk.

I'm not saying don't eat junk, but it seems unnecessary in this case.


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Junk is just empty calories.

McD's big mac meal with large coke is about 1200cals, that's nearly 3 meals of 250g chicken, 100g basmati rice and 10ml EVOO. Your body will thank you more for the clean meals and you'd make more progress


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## slunkeh (Apr 21, 2011)

Andy 67 said:


> IIFYM is really just the application of common sense to nutrition. The ultimate determinant of whether you are going to gain or lose weight is your caloric surplus or deficit.
> 
> As long as you have a good macro split, and the majority of your diet is made up of good quality wholefoods with plenty of fruit/veg, I can't see anything wrong with topping up your calories with a bit of 'junk'.
> 
> I've said it before & will say it again - *a pizza is not that much different from a pasta dish in terms of basic ingredients or nutrient breakdown*, yet one is usually considered filthy junk food & the other as a perfectly acceptable meal for an athlete.


I dont think so as pizza's always have cheese on them which is obviously high in sat fat. A pasta dish an athlete eats is unlikely to have that much cheese in it if any.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

IIFWYM is fine for general weight gain or loss provided the macro ratio it is based upon is sensible (enough protein and essential fats)... where it will let you down though is when cutting and at very low bodyfat levels, and also quite possibly if a dirty IIFYWY approach is followed for long term in respect of slowly developing health issues like elevated blood pressure, arteriosclerosis, osteoporosis, insulin resistance etc... not all nutrients within a macro category are equal in effect, and dirty food choices also miss micronutrients (or have un-natural balances of micronutrients) which slowly contribute to various forms of systemic dysfunction.


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Thatcca said:


> 3,000 calories isn't a lot L Man, even when eating clean. So I don't see why you need to top up with junk.
> 
> I'm not saying don't eat junk, but it seems unnecessary in this case.


Really? I only weigh like 10.5 stone atm so I thought 3,000 would be ok for a minimum target.



RACK said:


> Junk is just empty calories.
> 
> McD's big mac meal with large coke is about 1200cals, that's nearly 3 meals of 250g chicken, 100g basmati rice and 10ml EVOO. Your body will thank you more for the clean meals and you'd make more progress


So by empt they do f*ck all?

Eating chicken, rice and EVOO is so bland but I guess hard work pays off lol.


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Dtlv74 said:


> IIFWYM is fine for general weight gain or loss provided the macro ratio it is based upon is sensible (enough protein and essential fats)... where it will let you down though is when cutting and at very low bodyfat levels, and also quite possibly if a dirty IIFYWY approach is followed for long term in respect of slowly developing health issues like elevated blood pressure, arteriosclerosis, osteoporosis, insulin resistance etc... not all nutrients within a macro category are equal in effect, and dirty food choices also miss micronutrients (or have un-natural balances of micronutrients) which slowly contribute to various forms of systemic dysfunction.


Good post mate.

I understand from a health point of view, eating junk everyday is not ideal. But a couple of KFC chicken meals a few times a week would be ok surely. Can get 1,000kcals in one meal, which is too tempting for someone like me who is desperate to pack on any kind of size.


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Not really, the cals in a Mcd's are sat fats and all your body will do is store as fats really. If you're eating them and not puttin weight on then that's proof.

It's as bland as you make it. Swatch shake on Peri peri spices on the chicken, evoo to moistin the rice, asda do a nice Lime and chilli relish you can add a little off to add more flavour, bit of mayo what ever. Only thing that makes Mcd's tastey it their BBQ dip haha


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

My fave meal is oats, whey, mixed fruit. 200g oats, 4 scoops whey and mixed fruit you're look at 150g carbs, 100g pro, that's 1000 cals right there

Cookies and cream myofusion is amazing for that


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## bottleneck25 (Sep 25, 2009)

3000 cals is nothing mate .. A big daddy meal from kfc is 1410 cals your half way there just of that !


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

RACK said:


> My fave meal is oats, whey, mixed fruit. 200g oats, 4 scoops whey and mixed fruit you're look at 150g carbs, 100g pro, that's 1000 cals right there
> 
> Cookies and cream myofusion is amazing for that


Is that blended into a shake or?



bens1991 said:


> 3000 cals is nothing mate .. A big daddy meal from kfc is 1410 cals your half way there just of that !


Even for me mate? What do you recommend as target to bulk up?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

RACK said:


> Not really, the cals in a Mcd's are sat fats and all your body will do is store as fats really. If you're eating them and not puttin weight on then that's proof.
> 
> It's as bland as you make it. Swatch shake on Peri peri spices on the chicken, evoo to moistin the rice, asda do a nice Lime and chilli relish you can add a little off to add more flavour, bit of mayo what ever. Only thing that makes Mcd's tastey it their BBQ dip haha


Exactly, no reason at all why eating healthy means un-tasty... true the food is usually plain and simple when clean, but herbs and spices (which in themselves are often healthy) can make very simple dishes become a taste explosion... the main 'negatives' with clean eating are time to prepare foods compared to stuff you just have to microwave or fry/throw in the oven, and the time it takes to shop and organise the shopping list. Often supermarkets hike up the prices of clean foods too.


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Dtlv74 said:


> Exactly, no reason at all why eating healthy means un-tasty... true the food is usually plain and simple when clean, but herbs and spices (which in themselves are often healthy) can make very simple dishes become a taste explosion... the main 'negatives' with clean eating are time to prepare foods compared to stuff you just have to microwave or fry/throw in the oven, and the time it takes to shop and organise the shopping list. Often supermarkets hike up the prices of clean foods too.


It is the preperation. Also I'm a s*it cook but it's time to knuckle down. This thread has been a smack of reality for me haha. I've been reading the wonders of IIFYM for the past few weeks - buzzing when I hit over 4,000 calories a day...


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

The L Man said:


> Is that blended into a shake or?
> 
> Even for me mate? What do you recommend as target to bulk up?


No mate, I mix it into a big bowl. Sit down and eat it so it feels like a proper meal. I make it really thick too but I mix it with water, add milk to it and it'll bump the cals up even more


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Dtlv74 said:


> Exactly, no reason at all why eating healthy means un-tasty... true the food is usually plain and simple when clean, but herbs and spices (which in themselves are often healthy) can make very simple dishes become a taste explosion... the main 'negatives' with clean eating are time to prepare foods compared to stuff you just have to microwave or fry/throw in the oven, and the time it takes to shop and organise the shopping list. Often supermarkets hike up the prices of clean foods too.


Top post!!


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

The L Man said:


> It is the preperation. Also I'm a s*it cook but it's time to knuckle down. This thread has been a smack of reality for me haha. I've been reading the wonders of IIFYM for the past few weeks - buzzing when I hit over 4,000 calories a day...


It's not hard at all. wrap as much chicken as you need into foil with said spices on them. Oven a 200C and wait 40mins, that's as hard as it is.

I cook mine while doing cardio in a morning


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Also, 500g extra lean mince, 1 tin of chopped tomatos with chilli and add in old el paso spice and 2 meals right there with whatever carbs you want with them


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## HJL (Apr 26, 2009)

i have two blended shakes a day, for breakfast, and post workout.

oats

banana

raisins

whey

milk

pb

wake at 7.30, post workout at about 9pm, and i have four meals inbetween. usualy chicken, eggs, mince, tuna, salmon, with a chosen carb (always pasta as i eat all meals cold  ) and cram all my food fats and fruit and veg in around it


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## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

RACK said:


> Junk is just empty calories.
> 
> McD's big mac meal with large coke is about 1200cals, that's nearly 3 meals of 250g chicken, 100g basmati rice and 10ml EVOO. Your body will thank you more for the clean meals and you'd make more progress


This is a slightly extreme example, since 1200 cals is 40% of his daily calories, and there's probably only ~30g protein in it. Eat this every day & you are selling yourself short - but once a week or so & there will be no significant difference.

IIFYM doesn't mean that you can eat a whole load of crap & expect the same results as if you'd eaten good stuff - it just means you have some flexibility in your diet provided your whole diet is basically sound.


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## SeanStones (Nov 17, 2011)

I was talking to a lad about diet and i said what are your macros like.....

he replied I don't like fish.....

Pointless post but true....


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Yeah I agree it's an extreme example but was just gettin the point across


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## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

Dtlv74 said:


> dirty food choices also miss micronutrients


To be fair, bodybuilders who live off nothing but chicken, rice, broccoli & whey are also missing micronutrients.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I always find it funny when people describe rice and oats as clean, when both of them have less nutrients than many cereals aimed as kids.

IIFYM works great do long as you don't abuse it. It's supposed to make life easier.

But like everything else in body building. People seem hell bent on over analysing something simple and over complicating it.

I had my best cut results, eating low calories IF style Sunday to thursrsday, with a diet of steak, chips, eggs and bacon (lots of veg on the side) and some chocolate as well. Thai food as well

The weekends binged on what i wanted and drank beer, ate freely. I don't see why anyone would eat McDs and KFC over well cooked high quality food, do my food was fresher that most English people's diets and I do eat lots of veg because I like it.

However I hit PRs and lost fat and actually gained muscle on my back somehow.

Why? Because my macros were spot on at the end of the week


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## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

The L Man said:


> Really? I only weigh like 10.5 stone atm so I thought 3,000 would be ok for a minimum target.


You weigh around 150lb, so 3,000 cals is a good starting point. The guys here who talk about bulking on 5,000 cals are either twice as big as you or have metabolisms like greyhounds on crack. 18-20 cals per pound is the theoretical bulking amount, though in practice is can vary quite a bit depending on your activity levels & how your body responds to surplus & deficit.

What you need to do is to meticulously record your calories & monitor your weight. If you do this, you will gradually build an understanding of where your maintenance level is & how much over / under you need to go to bulk / cut.


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Andy 67 said:


> You weigh around 150lb, so 3,000 cals is a good starting point. The guys here who talk about bulking on 5,000 cals are either twice as big as you or have metabolisms like greyhounds on crack. 18-20 cals per pound is the theoretical bulking amount, though in practice is can vary quite a bit depending on your activity levels & how your body responds to surplus & deficit.
> 
> What you need to do is to meticulously record your calories & monitor your weight. If you do this, you will gradually build an understanding of where your maintenance level is & how much over / under you need to go to bulk / cut.


Yeah I can tell by their AVIs lol.

Just started counting what I eat on myfitness pal and posting it up on my journal (shamless plug: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/184377-l-mans-quest-size.html) Hoping to finally see some results.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I don't get how it's hard to get 3000 calories personally, I'm not saying it's not alot, just a bag of nuts will smash through that.

I find it hard to keep under that most days.. Eat some mackerel.


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## User Name (Aug 19, 2012)

L11 said:


> I don't get how it's hard to get 3000 calories personally, I'm not saying it's not alot, just a bag of nuts will smash through that.
> 
> I find it hard to keep under that most days.. Eat some mackerel.


Ditto to this.

I love nuts but have to watch it as they are so calorie dense.


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## bottleneck25 (Sep 25, 2009)

Sorry l man i didnt relise you was only 10 st but .. A quick snack i like to throw in her and there 2 wholetoast with a sh1t load of natural peanut butter and a banna works out about 500 cals have this twice a day an easy extra 1000 cals and its tastes great.. Drink plenty of full fat milk also and lots of cheese ..


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

IIFYM is joke ! show me one reputable athlete that uses this approach to diet and im not talking about some genetically lucky roid monkey in your gym!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

reza85 said:


> IIFYM is joke ! show me one reputable athlete that uses this approach to diet and im not talking about some genetically lucky roid monkey in your gym!


Every single athlete in the world


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Fatstuff said:


> Every single athlete in the world


LOL come on now u must be kidding mate so every athlete in the world consums kfc and mds on daily basses not worried about the acidity levels off the crap that they are putting in there body and how it effect performance loooooooooooooooool not forgetting the trans fats and the preservatives in these foods


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

There is nothing about IIFYM that recommends KFC. you don't get it sadly. You can do IIFYM whilst eating rice, chicken and olive oil too.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

reza85 said:


> LOL come on now u must be kidding mate so every athlete in the world consums kfc and mds on daily basses not worried about the acidity levels off the crap that they are putting in there body and how it effect performance loooooooooooooooool not forgetting the trans fats and the preservatives in these foods


No, neither do iifym advocates, this is where ppl like yourself haven't looked into it. My comment was a tad on the facetious side as every athlete eats to fit a certain macronutrient ratio, which is basically what iifym is. No way could you fulfill a high protein diet with sh1t like maccys regularly but nobody is stating that you can, it's just people like you who haven't looked into it presume that's what's it's about.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Mind you didn't the fastest man on earth eat macdonalds before breaking the world record and the fastest swimmer eat a fry up before doing the same?


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

^^ usain bolt had mcchicken nuggets in Beijing cos he didn't wanna get Delhi belly lol

Course it works. It's when people take it to extremes in examples, no1 saying eat mc ds all day but also don't eat chicken and brown rice all day. Build a high protein diet that fits in with foods you like and something u can actually stick too.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

reza85 said:


> IIFYM is joke ! show me one reputable athlete that uses this approach to diet and im not talking about some genetically lucky roid monkey in your gym!


You come across as very naive, ignorant, or just misinformed about iifym. Do some research, learn about nutrition and then come back and say that 

(no hate)


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

IGotTekkers said:


> You come across as very naive, ignorant, or just misinformed about iifym. Do some research, learn about nutrition and then come back and say that
> 
> (no hate)


Mate there are tones off people here that can teach me about nutrition,you are not one off them no offence intended what so ever at all. I,m not sitting here trying to be high and mighty at all this is just my opinion.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

IGotTekkers said:


> You come across as very naive, ignorant, or just misinformed about iifym. Do some research, learn about nutrition and then come back and say that
> 
> (no hate)


And I can say after reading tones off articles and doing courses like bio sig I,m guessing that i may just understand nutrition slightly better then you do but thanks for the advise.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You may have read tons, but that doesn't mean you have understood it. Or extracted the truth.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> You may have read tons, but that doesn't mean you have understood it. Or extracted the truth.


Never claimed that mat hence why I would love to work with some like scot to learn from ! Cause he does not come up with crap like this !


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

reza85 said:


> Never claimed that mat hence why I would love to work with some like scot to learn from ! Cause he does not come up with crap like this !


U r being arrogant, pscarb - has prepped loads of people and is very well respected in this game uses coco pops pwo and he gets the ppl he coaches to do the same with no Ill effect.

This is a perfect example of iifym. Nobody and I repeat NOBODY advocates a processed food high fat high sugar diet devoid of nutrients. This is just where u have decided to turn a blind eye and in essence just guess what iifym is all about without putting in any real research.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Well Im off for a Big Mac Meal. I'll still eat my 6 -8 scrambled eggs, protein shakes, peanut butter and chicken later on. Its all about moderation.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

The iifwym concept is indeed not about justifying junk food, but in some cases (a fast carb-up for example) certain forms of junk food can offer an advantage and convenience over unprocessed foods... in this sense junk can help performance.

The basic underlying diet though, primarily due to the provision of micronutrients, will pretty much guarantee lower risk of ill health in the long run if choices are balanced and clean... if the body is primed this way it does have the capability to easily process some junk without any significant detriment, it's simply where junk dominates that mineral, vitamin, fibre, efa, phytonutrients etc get consumed either in poor amounts or poor balance to one another and increase risk of developing issues of ill health over time... a proper iifwym approach reflects this.

Alan Aragon suggests the 80/20 rule - if eighty percent of your food is clean, then your body will likely be fine with 20% junk if it fits with the overall diet structure... that is a principal which well reflects the ethos of iifwym.


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## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

The only time i eat anything considered to be junk i want to feel full and satisfied from it and sadly for me that means thousands of sh*tty calories (only on sundays though) so i couldn't work with IIFYM. Fair play to those who use it to good effect but theres no way i could fit in 200g ice cream for example into my daily intake happily without binge-ing for hours on end meaning a massive surplus.

I imagine self control has to be a BIG factor lol..


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

need2bodybuild said:


> The only time i eat anything considered to be junk i want to feel full and satisfied from it and sadly for me that means thousands of sh*tty calories (only on sundays though) so i couldn't work with IIFYM. Fair play to those who use it to good effect but theres no way i could fit in 200g ice cream for example into my daily intake happily without binge-ing for hours on end meaning a massive surplus.
> 
> I imagine self control has to be a BIG factor lol..


What about steak and chips, u could have a decent feed of around 1000kcals and 80g protein, that would fill you nicely wouldn't it?


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

need2bodybuild said:


> The only time i eat anything considered to be junk i want to feel full and satisfied from it and sadly for me that means thousands of sh*tty calories (only on sundays though) so i couldn't work with IIFYM. Fair play to those who use it to good effect but theres no way i could fit in 200g ice cream for example into my daily intake happily without binge-ing for hours on end meaning a massive surplus.
> 
> I imagine self control has to be a BIG factor lol..


same buddy! ps clear your pms


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## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> What about steak and chips, u could have a decent feed of around 1000kcals and 80g protein, that would fill you nicely wouldn't it?


Yeh i suppose so but if it was a normal day i would swap the chips for brown rice and it would fill me up even more, i wouldn't eat chips unless i was having a junk day or re-feed.


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## si23 (Feb 3, 2010)

reza85 said:


> IIFYM is joke ! show me one reputable athlete that uses this approach to diet and im not talking about some genetically lucky roid monkey in your gym!


usian bolt eats macdonalds


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## User Name (Aug 19, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Mind you didn't the fastest man on earth eat macdonalds before breaking the world record and the fastest swimmer eat a fry up before doing the same?


The Michael Phelps diet would have put John Candy to shame.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

User Name said:


> The Michael Phelps diet would have put John Candy to shame.


I know pro rowers that use similar protocalls on certain days but even they would admit is purely due not being able to eat that quantity clean.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

reza85 said:


> I know pro rowers that use similar protocalls on certain days but even they would admit is purely due not being able to eat that quantity clean.


So what's your thoughts on iifym now we have educated u on it? :rolleye:


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Mate I always say each to there own if your idea of IIFYM is cocopups pw then yea why not but if it is eat 300g off protein and eat the rest off your cals consisting off what ever pleases you ig icecream and processed foods then no.

I mean most people on hear should not be eating starch and grains let alone bloody kfc and sugary carbs ( me included as im around 14% ) if you are under 10 then heck eat what you like who cares as clearly there is no insulin tolerance problem there. but I would just like to make you aware the more processed a food product is/refined IG White rice sugar pasta the easier it is to digest hence the thermal effect off the product and before you ask no a calorie is not a calorie.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

reza85 said:


> Mate I always say each to there own if your idea of IIFYM is cocopups pw then yea why not but if it is eat 300g off protein and eat the rest off your cals consisting off what ever pleases you ig icecream and processed foods then no.
> 
> I mean most people on hear should not be eating starch and grains let alone bloody kfc and sugary carbs ( me included as im around 14% ) if you are under 10 then heck eat what you like who cares as clearly there is no insulin tolerance problem there. but I would just like to make you aware the more processed a food product is/refined IG White rice sugar pasta the easier it is to digest hence the thermal effect off the product and before you ask no a calorie is not a calorie.


Lol I don't do cocopops pwo, just stating a point about somebody who does.

But still your missing the point, either that or your arguing for the sake of it. Nobody is saying live a diet full of crap whatsoever.

As for processed? I take it u don't use whey?

Also, why should somebody less than 10% care less about their health than anyone else?

P.s don't Badmouth the colonel, his fried chicken is all good baby


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Im a for 120kg 15 year old so i have had my share off junk and god knows i would sale my soul for dominos:tt2:! hence why i have acumalated so many fat sells and my insulin sensitivity is so messed up. the 10% thing is due to the way your body handles cabs and insulin im not intelectual enough to teach u that i would just be parroting poliquin


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Fatstuff you want to go for the coco-rocks mate, not the coco-pops. There so last week.....


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

F-that try dorset serial dark choc and nuts cant beat that stuff is like heaven in ur mouth :thumb:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

reza85 said:


> Im a for 120kg 15 year old so i have had my share off junk and god knows i would sale my soul for dominos:tt2:! hence why i have acumalated so many fat sells and my insulin sensitivity is so messed up. the 10% thing is due to the way your body handles cabs and insulin im not intelectual enough to teach u that i would just be parroting poliquin


Yeah that's because your diet used to be entirely that, nobody advocates that whatsoever is all were getting at.

It just annoys me that people are all holier than thou with their chicken and broccoli but are quick enough to chug down tons of dextrose pwo lol

I believe a diet should be varied, relatively clean with some junk for sanity, also define junk food, I mentioned the steak and chips earlier - my mrs does chips by cutting, par boiling then coats in a bit of olive oil and then bakes on a mesh thingy. Thats clean enough to me and a proper nice meal.

I am continuing the discussion without being an ar5e purely because I like ur AB avi lol


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

aad123 said:


> Fatstuff you want to go for the coco-rocks mate, not the coco-pops. There so last week.....


I don't do it lol if I did I would use corn flakes lol


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

The day I eat brown rice instead of chips with my steak you are all allowed to kill me


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## Home Physique (Jun 9, 2012)

I've pretty much done IIFYM ever since I decided to get in shape. I've said it before on here, just don't eat like a retard. Make sure you ACTUALLY get your macros in. Too many people think "Dude, IIFYM, YOLO YOLO" and eat crap and crap and end up with a macro split of about 200g Fat , 400g Carbs, 70g Protein (extreme example but you get what I'm saying).

All diets are "IIFYM" to an extent.

The guy who said Pizza is unhealthy - You think saturated fat is unhealthy? Perrrrleeeeaaasee.

Bread - can contain preservatives but if made freshly is a source of fibre, carbs and fats (if made with EVOO) - sounds "healthy" to me

Tomato Base - Full of goodness lets be honest, I eat tons of tomatoes - sounds "healthy" to me

Cheese - I personally use fresh mozzarella on mine, full of protein and fat - sounds "healthy" to me

Topping - Use whatever you want, it's generally meat, so lots of protein and fat again, usually some onions and peppers too - sounds "healthy" to me

So all of them now combined into a circular shape they become a potent fat gaining wheel of death?

Perrrrlllleeeeeaaaaaaseee.


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## Home Physique (Jun 9, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> Odd example!
> 
> What they are saying is all your above food per square inch doesn't have the food profile of that amount in eggs steak and fresh fruit! So if u then choose macro for macro a gramme of cla or mcg oil is better for u than hydrogenated fat of a gramme!
> 
> ...


Of course. If you wanted a primary nutrition target you would break things down. Personally I wouldn't eat a lot of bread so if I was to make a pizza, it would be the thinnest base you have ever seen.

The way you say "bio availability of pizza" is a crazy call. "Pizza" is just a name given to a collection of ingredients. If I took a tomato base (fresh fruit) and my thin base (carbs) and then decided to make a Steak and Egg topping with some fresh mozzarella on there because that's healthy and bio available... oh wait hang on a minute, now that its a pizza, it's literally junk food.

So the "absorption" rate of my steak and eggs is now junk? Magical.

I'm glad you agree with my point on scare tactics, it's bullsh*t like the above that has brainwashed people into thinking they are committing a crime by eating a burger every now and then.


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## Home Physique (Jun 9, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> Again your loading points,
> 
> If I cover 1 egg with eight pounds of lard and sixty bags of sugar it becomes a crap egg by percentage : put a cat in an oven doesn't make it a cake!!
> 
> ...


This isn't an argument, you've just explained exactly what IIFYM is and the point I was getting across.

You break down the content of the meal to get your macros. Saying that all you do is bring bread to a steak and egg meal is absolutely correct and is my point exactly.

That's the true point of IIFYM, break down the food / meals content and fit it to your needs. Don't look at something and say "that's unhealthy" break it down.

Also, the egg would still be an egg, nothing has changed to the quality of the egg. It just now has a side order of sugar and lard. Scrape it all off, maybe some will have been drawn into the egg but still... The same egg it ever was.


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## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

The old saying " you are what you eat" holds some truth !!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

retro-mental said:


> The old saying " you are what you eat" holds some truth !!


Correct. You are powered by sugars and muscles are made from amino acids.

Where they derive from, what GI they are and their names are is largely irrelevant


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## goonerton (Sep 7, 2009)

I've tried eating the 'clean diet' chicken breast, oats , brown rice etc, but consuming these foods daily just makes eating a chore to me and i like food too much to not enjoy my meals. my normal diet consists of pork chops, lamb chops, steak, chicken with skin on, curries, white rice, bread, oven chips, cereal , all i try to do is hit about 250g protein a day and keep sugar, salt and saturated fats reasonably low and try and get in a decent amount of veg and fruit.

And i find i can keep pretty lean year round with zero cardio, i'm sure if i threw in a decent amount of cardio i could get quite a bit leaner on current diet, and i would say metabolism is pretty average.

I can understand for people who are prepping etc and trying to get down to 5-6% BF , but i don't know how people maintain these 'clean' diets year round.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm no expert and a lot of this goes straight over my head. I just simply eat as clean as possible Monday to Friday and relax a little over the weekend. I do hit my macros but could pay a little more attention to my micro nutrients but as long as I get plenty of fruit and veg I'm not to worried. At the end of the day for me this is just a hobby and if I was forced to analyse everything I ate then I just give up. This is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, I know some of you are really into your food science but for the average gym rat a clean diet with the odd cheat is fine.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> Odd example!
> 
> What they are saying is all your above food per square inch doesn't have the food profile of that amount in eggs steak and fresh fruit! So if u then choose macro for macro a gramme of cla or mcg oil is better for u than hydrogenated fat of a gramme!
> 
> ...


Glad you came on this thread mate and look forward to working with you in the near feature. I know is going to be a great learning experience.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> Nope that tbh is not right and bro science
> 
> Youv missed evolution
> 
> ...


Where is that bro science? Which bits are incorrect and where is you counter science? You have stated nothing more substantiated than what I have said.

Also I think you might find testosterone slightly more anabolic than insulin. A bizzaire think most bros ignore is that saturated fat has a positive effect on natural test production

As stated a billion times before. IIFYM is not dictating to eat a bag of sugar, whey and butter.

If you eating enough meat to hit your macros. Your net GI wont be excessively high.

At the end of the day. I will have eaten eggs on white toast with mushrooms and tomatoes. Lamb roast with all the trimmings and berry crumble for dessert and I will be no better or worse off than the guy who eats chicken, brown rice and broccoli. So long as we both meet are requirements for calories, protein and fat. In fact I'd argue I would have eaten a far better micro nutrient profile.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Where is that bro science? Which bits are incorrect and where is you counter science? You have stated nothing more substantiated than what I have said.
> 
> Also I think you might find testosterone slightly more anabolic than insulin. A bizzaire think most bros ignore is that saturated fat has a positive effect on natural test production
> 
> ...


Yes but from what i see you are stating that a calorie is still a calorie and disregarding the source? Thats like saying fish oils are the same as trans fat ? or whey is the same as bison steak ? dextrose is the same as quinou ?


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

The old sayin "eat sh1t look sh1t" comes to mind

A calorie isn't always just a calorie. If it was then the op would be lookin and gainin a lot better due to his junk fittin in his macros, surely

I'd rather stick to eatin clean as I know everythin I'm puttin in and what effect it will have on me. Put junk in and you're eatin anythin that the people who made it scraped off the floor and mixed up most of the time.

Mcd's say they use 100% beef, now I'm sayin it isn't all cow but which bits would you rather have, 250g ribeye steak or 250g cheap burger meat?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

reza85 said:


> Yes but from what i see you are stating that a calorie is still a calorie and disregarding the source? Thats like saying fish oils are the same as trans fat ? or whey is the same as bison steak ? dextrose is the same as quinou ?


*shakes head*

no, I'm not saying that. I've never said that. And if you look through my past posting you'll see I say the opposite. In fact I say the opposite in the post you are quoting.

You don't disregard source. I listed a diet made up of whole foods (which my diet is, I vary rarely eat 'junk'). You are fulfilling the stereotype of your head of what you think IIFYM is. At no point does any part of IIFYM advocate eating junk or describing it as a good source to get your macros from. You should always aim to get your food from the best quality food and eat a good variety of fresh food, but if you end goal is a body composition change then your priority should be eating a correct amount of protein, fat and calories to facilitate that. If some of it doesn't come from ideal sources then it matters very little in the grand scheme of things.

That was IIFYM is.

Its not that hard to understand


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/the_anabolic_power_of_insulin
> 
> Dammit well renowned experts from major places also say its the anabolic giant
> 
> ...


thanks for this, its not like T-Nation to write a massively article isolating one element and make a mountain out of a molehill.

i sit down and read that advert for biotest later whilst i use my thigh master

wow, i can do sarcasm too

but in all seriousness I'll read it later.


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