# Adaptation to Crazy Cal's FB workout for my needs.



## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Getting back in the gym after about 8 months off.

Story is that I have problems with both my knees. I have a physio programme in place for the rehab of the legs/knees.

But I also want to do upper body stuff as well.

What I was doing before I quit was a full body workout twice a week.

Consisting of:

Bench Press 3 x 10

Pull Ups 3 x 10

Military Press 3 x 10

Dips 3 x 10

Dumbell Curls 3 x 10

Leg Press 3 x 10

Hamstring Curls 3 x 10

Leg Press Calf Raises 3 x 10

Ab work

Now I will be in the gym working on the same stuff, minus the legs, during the weights session.

So as it stands I would just be doing the below twice a week:

Bench Press 3 x 10

Pull Ups 3 x 10

Dumbell Shoulder press 3 x 10

Dips 3 x 10

Dumbell Curls 3 x 10

Ab work

How better can I optimise my time, anything I should take out or include, considering I am not doing the legs during this session.

Or is this ample for a complete newbie.

To give you a complete overview my plan.

Monday - Weights as above

Tuesday - Leg work (8mins Cross trainer, 8 mins bike, single leg press, body weight squats against wall, 1 leg squats, bridge and hamstring curls with gym ball), glute extensions and clam shell

Wednesday - Day off

Thursday - Leg work

Friday - weights

Saturday - legs

Sunday - Day off

What do you reckon?

My aims, are primarily to rehab my knees. The deal is if the rehab isnt working by April, then I will have to have an op on the right leg. Additionally, the rest of my body is not very strong and I carry a natural amount of mediterranean spread on my lower stomach which I would love to reduce.

The diet I will clean up, I'v done it before so I know what is needed.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

sounds ok bud, main thng is find a practiCAL baseline starting your legwork off.

ie start suoer fcuking light with as low a volume as your patience can handle

best thing that ever happened to me was beong forced to use a bare bar cos of my back for everything :wink:

how many almonds was it bud???

n i hope youre behaving at work heh heh!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

youve only got 1 day of so you must make sure youre legwork isnt systemically demanding!


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Hi Cal.

Yep im back and motivated this time. No need to go in to specifics, I have stuff that needs doing and rather than ignoring it, im just going to face it head on.

Trying to get my self back on the right path. Part of my realingment is making me feel better about myself so I got to put the effort in at the gym, not just for my all over body, but especially for my knees.

I'v got the programe sorted, going to ease in to it this time. Hopefully my knees allow me to train, and most importantly respond in a positive way but getting stronger as well as more stable and less pain.

Diet wise, will take me a few weeks I think to readjust. For instance, I'm doing weights tomorrow, but have not bought any of the correct foods etc... so im going to need to go on a shopping trip very soon.

As a complete rough guide, how much protein should I aim for? I weight 75kg. (22% body fat)

As for behaving at work..... well that would be telling!! :wink:

Oh and I think it was 29 Almonds on the dot!!

On a more sobering note, Im now 30 years old. I remeber starting weights when i was 27!!!! Of course, there has been no consitancy so there has been no progress, but I have motivation now.

Women. Nothing can motivate me more. Its as simple as that.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

operation get DO laid has begun!

i`m gonna suggest aiming for 140g or protein and then try and increase it closer to 165 ish g oveer time so its acheivable.

140g (ok 10stone is 144lb..) presumes you have 10 stone of lean muscle mass (u wish lol) that`ll be enuff.

i train on and off like a newbie biatch for a couple of months a year from 24 onwards..

didnt get anywhere till i was 38.. havent looked back..

2x aweek trainiing and 2x aday dog walking mate.

with the simplest unanal yet strangely adequate diet on MC.

*interpretation of a diet and a routine is key to success*


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

btw, welcome to the crazy gang..

you are more than qualified :becky:


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> operation get DO laid has begun!
> 
> i`m gonna suggest aiming for 140g or protein and then try and increase it closer to 165 ish g oveer time so its acheivable.
> 
> ...


I remeber the walking dude.

For the time being Im going to focus on what the physio wants me to do with my knees. Thats my leg work sorted. This will include, up too 20 mins on the Bike and 20 mins on the cross trainer. Thats plenty of cardio work.

The weights is more or less your programme dude, minus the legs on those days.

As for diet thanks for the protein quantity.

I have put together a diet I know I can do. Im only a newbie so no need to be anal with it.

Here goes:

Breakfast 9am - 30g whey protein with weetabix, banana.

Snack 12am - Almonds

Lunch 2pm: pasta chicken

Pre gym 6pm: sandwich with chicken

Post gym 8.30pm: whey(30g protein) banana

Dinner 9pm: Beef/Turkey/fish greens with potatoes etc...


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

bit more carbs post trainign bud and for not thats fine.

we can improve in a couple of weeks..

yup i know what the routine is lol


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

In a few weeks we can adjust it.

I know that I will struggle to eat that lot!

40 mins of cardio (20mins bike and 20 mins xtrainer) 3 times a week is plenty of cardio isnt it?

Where can I buy cheap but dependable whey from?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

given youre having 1 rest day yes it is lol


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

2 days. Wednesday and Sunday are rest days.

Am I over doing it?

Also for brekki, do you think whey/wittabix/banana is efficient use of the why protein?

I could scramble eggs instead with 2 toasts....

Thing is I cant eat 30g worth of protein in eggs.... that would need about 5.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

soz didnt read it properly, if the legwork doesnt do much systemic fatigue you`ll be fine.

i`m guessing as its more rehabing intensity will be nice and low.

btw drop the morning nana until youre appetite picks up.

as it does i`d suggest doing oaty shakes as its easier to drink cals than eat em..

youre appetite will pick up after a few weeks, this isnt JUST a case of forcing food down, you will have to make more of an effort the same as i do tho..

if you try to go from 0-100mph you`ll fail, little steps dude..

btw did you ever delete that 10g hardrive?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

I just sent you a private message, but it doesnt apear in my sent items....

I tired sending you a pm before and it did the same.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

OpethDisciple said:


> I just sent you a private message, but it doesnt apear in my sent items....
> 
> I tired sending you a pm before and it did the same.


Did you recieve my PM? Anyway, best to keep certain conversation off the public forums.

As for diet, I dont currently have any whey so just scrambled two eggs with brown toast. I feel good actually, like it was a good breakfast. I have some energy. May not give me as protein as the whey, but defor more calories.

so as it stands this is my current diet:

Here goes:

Breakfast 9am - 2 brown toast with 2 scrambbled eggs - glass of milk

Snack 12am - Almonds

Lunch 2pm: pasta/rice or potatoes & chicken

Pre gym 6pm: sandwich with chicken

Post gym 8.30pm: whey(30g protein) banana

Dinner 9pm: Beef/Turkey/fish greens with potatoes/pasta etc...

Thats alright isnt for the time being....


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

got it bud, just busy at the mo..

course bud wouldnt dream of it.. 

you are truly one of us lol


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Depending on how sore my legs get, I may drop the leg work down to two days, rather than three.

I guess as long as my legs are sore then there isnt any need to hit them again is there?

Also maybe I would move thursday and friday round, so it would be

Mon: weights

tue: legs

wed: rest

thu:weights

fri:legs

sat: rest

sun: rest

Depending on how I feel maybe I could fill saturday with something totally different like swimming.....


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

I'd say the above looks much better than the original personally. Not worth risking too much work on the legs straight off.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Hmmm did the legs today.

Dont really feel much burn post session.

At the gym that I went to with the physio, the leg press was the kins where the seat doesnt move, but the pad does, the one at the gym im going, is the reverse. Doesent feel half as good.

Physio only asked me to do single leg presses, I did that, and then did two leg as well other wise, I cant see much progress being made.

Upper body is veru sore, hope I will be able to go again on Thursday... seems too soon.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

I wouldn't say pain is always a sign of what's been achieved.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

dude youre legs are rehabbing the whole point of this is to start out light..

forget about "feeeling it" and being a badass and HAVE SOME EASY WORKOUTS :wink: that goes for upper bod too, you mustnt go to failure on everything..build up intensity and poundages slowly..

painfully slowly for legs..

eeeee when i was i boy i started with a bare bar and stood in mud....


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

OD mate, if you spent £50 on a train fare to mine it`ll be the best 50 youve ever spent..

i guarentee 1 visit will make more of a difference that a hundred posts by me on here..

norwich chap called flint on here is giving me a couple of months to show him my shizzle and he`s impressed after 3 workouts..

i`m impressed by that too lol


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Ok. Like every one else its very easy to forget the really simple.

1. No need to feel like you need to rush things as I have literraly been out for 8 months, plus have had only 1 session so far!

2. Once you get in the gym, its easy to get side tracked and think you should do this or you should do that.

Its just a ball ache, when you do your excersies, but then an injury reminds you 'oi mate im still here, hahaha'. Its depressing. Of course only had one 'leg session' so far. But im not convinced it was all that fruitful.

What did I do? Leg press, single leg press, cycling, xtrainer, some glute stuff, etc... but legs dont neccesarily feel worked.

Maybe I just need to give it time. The leg press machine at the physio's was good. My legs where aching for a few days, but it was a different type. The one at the gym, feels too easy. For instance at the physios I was pressing 40kg single leg, on the one at the gym, I need 80kg just for some resitance.

Meh, just need to give it time. Maybe I do need 3 leg sessions a week?

You have to remeber that the muscles in my legs are basically underdeveloped: A) Becuase I had an op on my left loeg, and B) I have now injured the tracking of my knee cap in the right leg doing hamstring curls!! - which indicates that it too must of been weak.

As the upper body stuff breaks my body to the point where I cant wash my hair in the shower as my body aches, or its painful in bed, yet the legs dont feel used at all, I think Im going to need to go back to 3 times a week onthe legs.

I want to do the cardio stuff any way, so it gives me an excuse.

As for doms.... (not that kind - although its applicable :wink: ) the body eventually gets better at dealing with it? Hitting the muscle even on the 3rd day doesnt seem long enough.

Also I must lose sight ogf the fact that my legs are in rehab mode... so obviously the excersies will feel light.

Its just im a bit of a perfectionist. if something is ever so slighty wrong, its hard for me to over look it, I would rather throw it away and start again. Of course you cant do that with our legs....

This is my current diet. Im wondering if its too much oil?

Breakfast 9am - 2 brown toast with 2 scrambbled eggs - glass of milk

Snack 12am - Almonds

Lunch 2pm: So far its a pesto pasta thing from m&s with a breast of chicken. The pasta is in olive oil and has parmesan chees on it.... not alot just not sure if its too much oil and fat considering im eating eggs as well for breaky.

Pre gym 6pm: sandwich with chicken

Post gym 8.30pm: So far I eat nothing post gym. Havent bought any whey.

Dinner 9pm: Beef/Turkey/fish greens with potatoes/pasta etc...

I think I just need to relax and give it a few months.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

how can anyone ask that many questions after 2 workouts bud..

its your old problem overthinking..

i cant engage bud soz..

if i answer one of those Q`s you`ll come out with 10 more.

you ache like fcuk from upperbod cos you wouldve pushed too hard and most if your ache is probly ligament and tendons being stretched.

thanks fcuk your legs dont ache, cos youre REHABBING them


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> how can anyone ask that many questions after 2 workouts bud..
> 
> its your old problem overthinking..
> 
> ...


OK noted. will just get down to it then.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

I feel so fat eating so much.

I can post some pics now, as I have a camera phone finally. Pics to come embarrassingly soon.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Well embarrassingly here are pictures of what I'v got to work with.

As you can see, skinny and fat!!

Ignore the stretch marks, happended when I was 18. Hormonal! 

View attachment 2859
View attachment 2860
View attachment 2861


Do I try to build muscle first, lose fat, or try to do both together?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

well done for sticking them up bud, i know how hard that was for you...

mmm i m a lcuky boy.. you and big daddy in one nite


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Im thinking of filling my sat and sunday with cardio.

For two reasons, fat burn and for my knees.

Would be eventually something like 20mins xtrainer, 20mins bike and 30 mins swimming.

I need to burn off all this food im eating!!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

youre not eating more, youre eating better food more frequently, look understand why youre doing things rather than looking for questions...

stop fcuking thinking!!!!!

make a plan and stick to it.

i`m gonna keep saying the same thing over and over again.. the more you question the more i`ll stick to the basics.. as you should..


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Ok.

But the cardio stuff on Sat Sun is fine right?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

just stick to your original plan PLEASE.

youre not fit, youre not strong and youre not capable of doing something every day, n if you are its because youre too keen.

keep youre keen for 6 weeks down the line when the CBA factor is kicking in.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

OD, on a completely unrelated side note. Did you see the Opeth tour?

If so did Mikael Akerfelt ramble on about KISS?  

He did at Manchester, I thought it was piss funny. Some **** tried heckling so he just carried on after every song!

As if any self-respecting Opeth fan would go to a gig & heckle him!! F**kin TP!


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Neil R said:


> OD, on a completely unrelated side note. Did you see the Opeth tour?
> 
> If so did Mikael Akerfelt ramble on about KISS?
> 
> ...


No I didnt dude. To be honest with you I do not like the latest Opeth album much.

I was hopimg that they would return to their more original sound, instead they took the prog thing even further and really lost the plot this time.

I was at the Albert Hall last year tho for the 20th Aniversary gig.

I wouldnt have thought someone like you would know or like Opeth?

---

Was leg day yesterday.....

Instead of just 3x10 reps on the leg press I did 5x8 as the physio told me to do and I can say they feel worked today, thats for sure.

You really have to blast the legs to feel anything I suppose, considering you walk on them all day, they are use to alot of punishment.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

and given that youre rehabbing them, you arent gonna blast them are you..

sos that would defeat the object of the entire routine youve constructed.. :wink:


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

I'm enjoying it.

Only been one week, but anything that makes me feel more confident around woman, I am motivated for.

If it doesn't sort my knee out or makes it feel better in 3 months time, Im just going to man up and march my self to the hospital for the op.

I'm petrified of needles and hospitals but I have to do this.

----

Cardio and fat loss.

I know your an advocate of walking for fat loss, but by the time I'm at the gym doing my leg stuff and have paid money for the privilege to use it, I might as well make use of the facilities. Also it would mean adding an hour on to the already packed schedule.

Obviously cycling is good for people with knee issues, so I have isolated that as my main cardio exercise.

I am also conscious of not over doing it and giving me time to rest relax and do other things.

So what is a good amount frequency and duration to do on the bike in order to get a balance between too much and too little?

I was thinking 3 x 30mins a week on the bike. That plus the upper body/legs twice a week is OK isn't it?


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

OpethDisciple said:


> I was hoping that they would return to their more original sound, instead they took the prog thing even further and really lost the plot this time.
> 
> I wouldnt have thought someone like you would know or like Opeth?


  What would you expect me to listen to?!

Love Opeth, to be fair, they played quite a bit from earlier albums, a few off Still Life, some from Deliverance, Watershed etc

I'm a bit of a gig freak TBH, in the last year or so I've been to see Rob Zombie, Opeth, Machine Head (twice), DevilDriver (Twice) HateBreed, Black Stone Cherry, Coheed & Cambria, Dimmu Borgir, Slayer and a few others I cant remember right now!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

im getting abit bogged down with all youre doing but yes it seems a fair place to start.

again tho its rehab you need to find a baseline that doesnt cause pain to start with.

that maybe 5 mins 3x a week as a starting point, you maybe able to do 60..


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Im still soldiering on with this.

Getting a little bit stronger and stamina is up slightly.

A few issues have cropped up and sort of left me with the feeling of not not what direction to go in.

Originally the plan was to split the FB workout with leg work, Monday/tuesday Thu/fri, however I have been finding that I have been skipping the Friday leg sessions as mates want to go out etc etc etc

So you could say I have been neglecting my legs.... also 4 times at the gym, plus driving lessons on wednesday means I am practically having no free time just to relax.

So this week I have decided just to go to the gym 2 tomes a week and but add the leg work on to the end of the FB routine done on Monday and Thursday.

Thats fine, except, having sore muscles in every part of your body makes you exhausted. I feel like a songle peice of meet that has been tenderorized from head to toe.

At the moment my legs are not recovering in time to twork them out twice a week, I worked them on Monday, and due to go back again tommorrow, butthe way I feel today, Im going to need to spend untill next monday just recoving.

Not sure what to do really, becuase it means that a) im not working my legs as the ohysio wants, B) just the leg press alone is taking all the energy out of my legs to the point where (I cant do any of the other stuff the physio wants me to do.


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## SX Dave (Jun 14, 2007)

Surely the physio stuff should be the priority over everything else?

I'd say your massively overtraining and need to adjust your training to allow for rehab! But think you will just continue doing to much from what iv read here.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

well yea I probably am over training, but this is what I mean by not knowing what direction to turn in.

All I'v done this week is a Monday sesson,but I am no where near ready to go back tomorrow. I feel shattered.

Yes I should probably prioritize the physio stuff, but at the same time it wont be any different to what im currently doing as the leg press as brought my legs to the point I cant walk or sit down with out pain, my arse hurts and my hamstring hurts.

Im dud to go back and speak to the ophysio again and we need to work out a plan.

At the moment you could argue that any excersies is overtraining for me. So where is the balance?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Going well enough.

Still doing what I originally started doing.

I suppose progress is measured in strength right? As long as I am able to lift heavier then before, I have made progressed?

As for fat loss, well, I have decided to actually do something about it.

Before I wasnt doing any cardio at all. Now I do 20mins of cycling (for my knees - also a good sweat) and then I do 40mins of power walking on the tread mill.

Im pretty much doing this 4 times a week.

My plan is to carry on as I am, obviously I have an issue with me right knee which isnt responding to strengh excersies. Only an op will sort it out.

My plan is to carry on as I am, have the op, hopefully all goes well, carry on with rehab and strength conditioning, untill Jan - Feb 2013, when I will hopefully be strong enough to start doing proper squats and deadlifts.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> OD mate, if you spent £50 on a train fare to mine it`ll be the best 50 youve ever spent..
> 
> i guarentee 1 visit will make more of a difference that a hundred posts by me on here..
> 
> ...


If my knees weren't f$£cked then I might have taken you up on this.

As it stands, I feel like the last 6 months I have just been treading water, my right knee hasn't improved.

I could of had the op by now, rather than wasting my time, and feeling depressed about it.

Its a complete bastard, as last year when I injured my right knee, I went in to the gym with the aim of rehabbing my left which is even more f$£cked than the right.

Instead, I damaged my right, so am currently at step -1. I'm just trying to get back to 0 again! :shocked:

Anyway.... it was interesting to read Gator's thread because I too was thinking of a split.

Well really the only thing that is a slight issue with the Full Body workout, is that the shoulder press suffers as the triceps are exhausted by the bench press.

Plus maybe its a little bit long that it doesn't allow me to do any cardio after the session.

Last two weeks I have felt demotivated by my knees. Its hard work walking on knees that cause you pain 24hr a day. It wears you down eventually, to the point you think "maybe I should just give up, become a couch potato, eat crap and be ignorant'

Think I'm going to go back to doing my fullbody routine from tomorrow at least it is something I can do (3 x a week)....

Bench Press 3 x 10

Pull Ups 3 x 10

Military Press 3 x 10

Dips 3 x 10

Dumbell Curls 3 x 10

Leg Press 3 x 10

Hamstring Curls 3 x 10

Calf Raises 3 x 10

Ab work


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

Why would you do that routine 3 x per week ?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

OpethDisciple said:


> If my knees weren't f$£cked then I might have taken you up on this.
> 
> As it stands, I feel like the last 6 months I have just been treading water, my right knee hasn't improved.
> 
> ...


I'v been doing it over the last 3 months only twice a week, but dont think I made as much gains as I should have. So I thought maybe its becuase Im not doing it enough?

Also for the one or two weeks I did try it 3x a week, it didn't feel like too much.

I'm only lifting puny weights. If the weigths where heavy then yea I can see that 2x a week would be better but not when Im benching 17.5kg, shoulder pressing 12kg, leg pressing 80kg....


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Or maybe your not doing it right?

Increasing something being done wrong won't make it better.

I personally reckon you waaaay over think things, you remind me of Jakal. If I were you I'd jump on that train and see Cal, will be the best thing you ever do.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Dorsey said:


> Or maybe your not doing it right?
> 
> Increasing something being done wrong won't make it better.
> 
> I personally reckon you waaaay over think things, you remind me of Jakal. If I were you I'd jump on that train and see Cal, will be the best thing you ever do.


To be honest with you, its hard not to do it right when the routine is so simple.

There isnt any exercises in there like squats or deadlifts, where form is imperative, so what could I not be doing right?


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## MichelleD (Dec 9, 2011)

Form is imperative on every exercise. Cal will tell you that :biggrin:


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

So do you pretty much just coast through the session because it's too easy?


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

MichelleD said:
 

> Form is imperative on every exercise. Cal will tell you that :biggrin:


I think I could go along with that, lol


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Dorsey said:


> So do you pretty much just coast through the session because it's too easy?


No dude, I don't just coast through, I am lifting as heavy as I possibly can.


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

Wrong .

Form , execution, breathing, progress journal, diet, its not fcuking simple at all bud.

I don't think Ronnie Coleman could train his chest 3 times a week tbh.

I thought I had a sound knowledge of weight training untill I went to my classes with cal .

Now I have took what I already knew, added what he tought me , and I'm getting on with leaps and bounds compared to where I was .

Train 3 times a week if u know better, at least divide the schedule so the muscle groups get a rest . I'm not being a cnut your just wasting your efforts for nothing at the moment .

By the way good luck , better to do something than nothing


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

My post was for od by the way , it didn't quote for some reason .....


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

OK, I hear you. Your all telling me to go back to twice a week again.

I don't have a problem with it per se, its just people I have spoken to have told me that you haven't really made much progress for thew time you have spent in the gym, plus also the internet doesn't seem to have a problem with 3 times a week FullBody.

Example.

This is my routine and weights:

Bench Press	3x10 - 17.5kg

Leg Press	3x10 - 70kg

Military Press	3x10 - 10kg

Weighted Calf Raises 3x10

Pull Ups	3x10 - 40kg

Hamstring Curls

Dips	3x10 - 20kg

Hanging Leg Raises	3x10

Dumbbell Curls	3x10 - 20kg

At such puny weights still think I'm better off going back to twice a week?


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

That's not what I'm saying . I'm saying your routine isn't balanced , 3 of that a week does not allow rest for the muscles and I doubt you truly understand the ethos of focus and intensity bud


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

flint said:


> That's not what I'm saying . I'm saying your routine isn't balanced , 3 of that a week does not allow rest for the muscles and I doubt you truly understand the ethos of focus and intensity bud


OK.

Job done. I'll go back to twice a week again.

Get more cardio in this way any way.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

I have bad knees.

Defo cant do squats at the moment, deadlifts... well haven't tried, but without someone to show me how ...

If I did include deadlifts, what do I replace?


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

I suggest u rethink your plan a little too . Look at the 27 sets you are doing and how they are not evenly split between the muscle groups . Some of the more experienced guys on here can offer up a circuit sesh better suited no doubt . I did 21 sets on Sunday after spending the afternoon with a couple of Essex hulks and I am still suffering now. I think they did 16 sets in their workout and suffered doms too .... Good luck bud , iron is the future , it can change yer life .


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

My routine is basically the crazy cal routine, just with the deads and squats omitted due to my bad knees.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

OpethDisciple said:


> OK, I hear you. Your all telling me to go back to twice a week again.
> 
> I don't have a problem with it per se, its just people I have spoken to have told me that you haven't really made much progress for thew time you have spent in the gym, plus also the internet doesn't seem to have a problem with 3 times a week FullBody.
> 
> ...


Fcuk me OD, is that all one WO or a weeks worth??


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

OpethDisciple said:


> My routine is basically the crazy cal routine, just with the deads and squats omitted due to my bad knees.


After training with Cal on Saturday, deads and squats are a very BIG part of the routine!!


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

They are the " core " of his begginers routine bud. For a reason .


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Don't feel like we're ripping into you by the way OD, it's all good.

I feel for you with the knees, it obviously does limit certain exercises. I bet you could have a bash at some partial deads though?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Dorsey said:


> Fcuk me OD, is that all one WO or a weeks worth??


Yep that is basically all in one session......

:noidea:

So how can I split this then?

The squats and deadlifts I will incorporate later on in the future, I'm basically waiting on an op on my right knee, so can we just excuse those for the moment.

What you all saying is that the amount of exercises I'm trying to do in one session is too much, so I basically need a split that is 4 days long?

Is this better:

Monday

Bench Press3x10 - 17.5kg

Dips3x10 - 20kg

Leg Press3x10 - 70kg

Weighted Calf Raises 3x10

Tuesday

Pull Ups3x10 - 40kg

Military Press3x10 - 10kg

Dumbbell Curls3x10 - 20kg

Hamstring Curls

Hanging Leg Raises3x10

Thursday

Bench Press3x10 - 17.5kg

Dips3x10 - 20kg

Leg Press3x10 - 70kg

Weighted Calf Raises 3x10

Friday

Pull Ups3x10 - 40kg

Military Press3x10 - 10kg

Dumbbell Curls3x10 - 20kg

Hamstring Curls

Hanging Leg Raises3x10

This would also allow me to do more cardio as well....


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

How about

Back and triceps

Rest

Rest

Chest and biceps

Rest

Rest

Shoulders and legs

That's 7 days with adequate rest so u can really focus on moving some real weight and form with intensity.


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

flint said:


> How about
> 
> Back and triceps
> 
> ...


Thanks for that.

So how does this look? Anything i should put in or take out?

Monday - Back and triceps

Deadlifts 3x10

Wide Grip Pull Up 3x10

Dips 3x10

Tricep pushdowns 3x10

Thursday - Chest and biceps

Benchpress 3x10

Dumbbell bench press 3 x 10

Barbell Curls 3x10

Chin Ups 3x10 (I know they hit the back, but they hit the biceps too, leave or take out?)

Sunday - Shoulders and legs

Leg Press3x10 - 70kg

Hamstring Curls

Weighted Calf Raises 3x10

Dumbell shoulder Press3x10 - 10kg

Upright Barbell Rows 3x10 (Lateral raises instead)?


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

I would alternate between side and front raises every so often . Mate I think your getting it


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Dont the triceps get worked out in all 3 of the workout days tho? Or does that not matter?


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## flint (Feb 18, 2008)

That depends on your chest form doesn't it bud .


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

OpethDisciple said:


> Dont the triceps get worked out in all 3 of the workout days tho? Or does that not matter?


Just do a pull/push/legs split

It's the most common 3 way split!


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## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

What he said ^^^


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

yannyboy said:


> Just do a pull/push/legs split
> 
> It's the most common 3 way split!


So just when I am in touching distance of the finish line, it moves again.....

Can you show me a pull/push/legs split, because I go no idea and am going round in circles...


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Something like this

Pull:

Deadlift 5 x 5

Weighted Chin-Ups 3 x 8

Barbell Row 5 x 5

Hammer Curl 3 x 8

Push:

Flat Bench 3 x 5

Incline Bench 3 x 5

Seated Dumbell Press 5 x 5

Weighted Dips 3 x 8

Legs:

Squat 5 x 5

Stiff-Legged Deadlift 3 x 5

Lunges 3x8

Crunch: 3 x 15


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

yannyboy said:


> Something like this
> 
> Pull:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that very helpful.

As I have said before I have knee issues, which means at present I cant squat with out it hurting my right knee.

Originally I have an issue with my left knee, but injured my right in the gym.

A few years a go when I used to squat with weights, the next day I wasn't able to walk on my left leg, as the acl graft had basically swollen up.

The physio wants me to squat (which I cant because it hurts the right knee) whilst the surgeon told me to forget about ever squatting with weights again. (That's what he mumbled under his breath)

So given the above if we replace squats with leg press, still 5x5?

And in worst case scenario, if I find the deadlifts also hurt my knees what can I replace them with? (Even just doing it now in my room at home, bodyweight is hurting my left knee) :violin:

Today I have felt quite down actually because I am just not able to do what I want to do, feels trapped, and it wears you down when its constantly the same thing 24hrs a day, with no rest bite, other than when I'm too drunk or asleep...


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Until I have my op I think I'm going to have to excluded the squats and deads.

What can I replace them with?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Thanks to every one that has offered me advice.

Last two weeks I have been in limbo and lost a lot of enthusiasm for the gym.

Im an all or nothing type of person, I didn't really have a routine anymore and the knees where bringing me down, so I lost enthusiasm.

I need to get my arse back on the wagon, because this is where I want to be.

I think I'm going to start by doing the routine YannyBoy put together, it looks look and I can start light for the first few weeks and learn the form etc...

Maybe deadlifts wont hurt the knees too much, its just that when the gym is busy and you don't know how to do something, and it some thing the 'big guys' do, you think well I'm not going to embarrass myself in front of every one.

Anyway I'll give the next few weeks as just me learning the form etc....

Squats I'll do as well even tho they will hurt me. The physio wanted me to do em, so I'll do em.

My plan is to do 20mins cycling after weights and 30mins on off days, as often a I can.

I made just a tiny modification:

Monday

Deadlift	5x5

Chin ups	3x8

Barbell Row	5x5

Barbel Curls	3x8

Wednesday

Bench Press	3x5

Incline Bench	3x5

Dumbell Press	5x5

Dips	3x8

Friday

Squats 5x5

SLDL	3x5

Lunges 3x8

Weighted Calf Raises 3x10

Hanging Leg Raises 3x15

It's not over doing it doing DL and SLDL in the same week?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

yannyboy said:


> Something like this
> 
> Pull:
> 
> ...


I think this will be bang on!

Knee Subluxations During Squats | LIVESTRONG.COM

Eventually after my op on the right knee, I should be OK to do the prescribed excersies above.

----

Ok well being a Wednesday I did the Push part of the routine today.

Its good. I like the 5x5 thing, means you can lift heavy but not suffer form fatigue too much.

As I had finished and the gym was fairly quiet decided to ask someone to show me deadlift form.

My god its tough. Bare olympic bar with no weights was super tough!!

The guy should me well, however he told me to go down deep as in almost a full deep squat at the beginning of the movement, is this correct?

We will have to see how my right knee reacts to this, I anticipate it wont like it at all, as that is the exact movement that causes me pain, plus I'm going to be lifting additionally weight rather than just body weight, but we will see.

Could I get away with just partial DL? Is that the same, just not as deep?

---

Oh on to cardio. My plan is to do 30 mins after weights and on off days. (Cycling)

Now the only concern I have is adding 30 mins cardio takes the workout from about 40mins to about 1hr20mins.... is this good or bad?

--

Where can I get cheap but good whey protein from?

---

Last two weeks where I fell of the wagon and was near giving up, I forgot what my motivation was.

----

My form is not great during SLDL and regular DL.

A guy at the gym suggested I incorporate a machine called Upper back machine.... its basically the opposite to a chest press, but you are pulling. This is to strengthen my shoulders and upper back because I seem to round my shoulders during deadlifts....

He also said that the SLDL is an advanced exercise.... may just continue with it, but use a lighter bar?


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Went to the gym today to do some cardio.

But the doms in my hamstring and legs are so bad from squatting on Friday that I couldn't manage more than 5 mins and had to leave.

I take it more often I squat the lesser the doms will be right?

---

Just an observation but how on earth can some one squat 3 times a week doing the 5x5 Starting Strength routine...


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

> Just an observation but how on earth can some one squat 3 times a week doing the 5x5 Starting Strength routine...


exactly..

altho gears an option..

yes more often you squat less severe doms will be however i get massive doms every time still, just not to the point of being disabled..


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## OpethDisciple (May 9, 2009)

Right, had my knee op 3 weeks ago.

Not great news. I have damaged the cartilage between my knee cap and my tibia, meaning every time the knee cap travels in its grove (everything to do with leg movement) there is bone to bone contact, causing pain.

I have a program which I'm doing for my legs as set up the physios. Doubt it will work as I cant see how stronger quads and hamstrings will alleviate the pain I feel when the knee cap moves, but I have nothing to lose, so I will just shut my mouth and get in with it.

However this leave upper body work.

Was thinking of just doing the Crazy Cal FB routine again minus the leg work, but that would just leave:

Monday

Bench Press 5x5

Pull Ups	3x10 (to be honest with you, I'm not a fan of this, as it causes wrist pain, can I just do chin ups? - chin ups seem to overload the biceps tho)

Standing Military Press 5x5

Dips	3x10

Bicep Curls	3x10

Crunches	30

Thursday

Bench Press 5x5

Pull Ups	3x10

Standing Military Press	5x5

Dips	3x10

Bicep Curls	3x10

Plank

Should I add anything to it, or is it fine?


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