# Chronium Picolinate - very interesting article



## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

I've just found this article on Chromium Picolinate and found it to be a very interesting read presenting the pros and cons of the supplement. I found it to be a well rounded read and VERY informative.

*Dangers Of Chromium Picolinate: If you want to build muscle and lose fat, will a chromium supplement help? Here's a cool look at the facts*

If you follow the pop sports-nutrition scene, you know that chromium represents one of the most au courant nutritional supplements utilised by athletes. Advocates of the trace mineral proclaim that it controls cholesterol, magnifies muscle mass, subtracts fat, and even lengthens lifespan. The popular press has often doted on the mineral, with articles in the Los Angeles Times contending that chromium offers athletes an excellent 'alternative to anabolic steroids'. Overall, claims for chromium have made the mineral appear to be the grandest thing since ginseng, and sales of chromium supplements have soared..

The chromium commotion basically began back in 1989, when a researcher named Gary Evans at Bemidji State University in the United States published a paper which indicated that football players who ingested 200 micrograms (mcg) of chromium per day were able to build more muscle and lose more fat, compared to chromium-free athletes. In fact, the paper stated that the chromium-rich athletes reduced body fat by a whopping 22 per cent and added an astonishing six pounds of lean muscle in a brief, six-week time span ('Effect of Chromium Picolinate on Insulin Controlled Parameters in Humans,' International Journal of Biosocial and Medical Research, vol. 11, pp. 163-180, 1989)..

Evans' findings were reported widely in newspapers and health magazines, but his results weren't always supported by follow-up studies..

Specifically, when researchers at the University of Massachusetts divided 38 football players into two groups, those who received 200 mcg of chromium picolinate daily during nine weeks of spring training and those who took in only a placebo, they found that the chromium supplementation had no effect at all on lean mass or percent body fat. The only significant finding in the Massachusetts study was that chromium supplementers lost lots of chromium in their urine ('Effects of Chromium Picolinate Supplementation on Body Composition, Strength, and Urinary Chromium Loss in Football Players,' International Journal of Sport Nutrition, vol. 4(2), pp. 142-153, 1994)..

*What chromium picolinate actually does*

Is chromium really a miracle mineral, as Evans' work suggests, or a powerless supplement, as the Massachusetts research indicates? Can the little mineral really trim fat, expand muscle mass and boost athletic performances? To answer those questions, we need to think for a moment about chromium's actual role in human metabolism..

Chromium is present in significant quantities in a fairly limited number of foods, including raw oysters, corn flakes, butter, seedless raisins, roasted peanuts, white mushrooms, brewer's yeast, cocoa, meat, and wine, and its main function is to boost the activity of insulin, the body's key 'anabolic' hormone. Insulin promotes glycogen storage in muscles, enhances protein synthesis, and stimulates fat formation in fatty tissues, but without chromium, insulin simply can't work..

Although insulin promotes fat storage, chromium supporters have sometimes contended that chromium supplementation would actually help reduce body fat. To understand this, remember that insulin drives fats which are floating around in the blood into fat cells. Whenever there is too much insulin in the blood, abnormally high amounts of fat are pushed into your paunch. However, since chromium enhances the potency of insulin, it should decrease total insulin production within the body. The consequently lower insulin levels should tack less fat on to existing blubber..

Very strong support for chromium supplementation has emerged from studies carried out with animals, especially pigs. Basically, this research has shown that young pigs given chromium supplements are indeed less fatty and also develop greater muscle mass, compared to non-supplemented porkers ('Effect of Chromium Picolinate on Growth and Serum and Carcass Traits of Growing-Finishing Pigs, Journal of Animal Science, vol. 71, pp. 656-662, 1993) In addition, sows fed extra chromium tend to have larger litters. However, an important point to bear in mind when considering the value of this research for humans is that the pigs were given very high doses of chromium - quantities well above the amounts which have been considered safe for human consumption..

Because insulin reduces blood-sugar and blood-fat levels (by pushing sugar and fat into muscle and adipose cells), chromium has been administered to human patients with diabetes and hyperlipidemia. Until recently, this research has met with only moderate success, with some studies detecting positive effects for chromium and others unearthing no benefits at all..

It helped Chinese diabetics

However, this view of chromium as a somewhat 'tarnished metal' was overturned recently in a study carried out by Dr. Richard Anderson, a chromium-research veteran based at a U.S. Department of Agriculture laboratory in Beltsville, Maryland. In research actually carried out in China, Anderson and his colleague, Dr. Nanzheng Chang, divided 180 Chinese citizens with type II diabetes into three groups of 60 people. Over a four-month period, one group ingested two 100-mcg doses of chromium picolinate per day (200 mcg total), a second group took in two 500-mcg quantities of chromium picolinate daily (1000 mcg total), and a third group consumed only placebo..

The 1000-mcg group members lowered blood sugar levels, improved glucose tolerance, reduced insulin, and moderated total cholesterol significantly after only two months of supplementation. They also improved 'glycated haemoglobin', often considered the best indicator of blood-glucose status, in just eight weeks. The 200-mcg group made fewer improvements but were able to ameliorate glycated haemoglobin after four months and dip insulin after only two months ('Beneficial Effects of Chromium for People with Type II Diabetes,' Diabetes, vol. 45, p. 124A, abstract no. 454, 1996). In effect, the chromium supplements, especially at a level of 1000 mcg per day, helped to control many of the pernicious problems associated with diabetes..

Anderson cautioned that American and British diabetics might need higher levels of chromium to obtain similar results, since Americans and Brits tend to have bigger bodies and also eat more sugar and fat, factors which raise chromium requirements. Nonetheless, the results of this research were so notable that the rather conservative American Diabetic Association issued a news release heralding Anderson's work as a significant breakthrough..

Chromium supporters have also argued that chromium should promote better recovery from strenuous workouts by hiking protein construction (and therefore repair) in muscle cells and by getting glycogen back into the muscles more quickly. Unfortunately, research hasn't been overly supportive of this glycogen-replacement hypothesis. For example, in one study exercise-trained laboratory animals were placed on either chromium-rich or chromium-poor diets. As it turned out, the chromium-deprived animals had just as much glycogen in their leg muscles as the similarly trained, chromium-supplemented beasts. In addition, even though chromium has been linked with improved body composition, no study has actually linked chromium supplementation with heightened athletic performances..

That may seem surprising, considering the way in which chromium activates insulin, but it's important to remember one key principle: To derive benefits from a supplemented vitamin or mineral, regardless of how important the vitamin or mineral is to human metabolism, you must first be somewhat lacking in that vitamin or mineral. In other words, if you already have enough chromium in your body, taking a ton of the compound won't improve your health or make you a better athlete..

*Are you deficient in chromium?*

That being true, it's important to consider whether chromium deficiency is common or rare in athletes. It is true that exercise increases the amount of chromium lost in the urine. In one study, researchers found that trained male runners experienced a 500-per cent increase in urinary chromium loss following a tough, six-mile run. Overall, chromium losses via urine doubled on days when runners worked out, compared to rest days ('Effects of Exercise (Running) on Serum Glucose, Insulin, Glucagon, and Chromium Excretion,' Diabetes, vol. 31, pp. 212-216, 1982)..

However, follow-up studies showed that, compared to sedentary individuals, runners tend to excrete less urinary chromium on rest days. Some sports-nutrition experts contend that this means that athletes don't need to fret too much about chromium depletion, since their kidneys are often pretty stingy with the trace mineral, at least on non-workout days. However, athletes who train every day might still need to be concerned about their cumulative chromium losses (since chromium disappearance doubles on workout days). It's also important to bear in mind that the reduced chromium output observed on rest days could actually mean that athletes tend to be chromium deficient (if blood levels of chromium were chronically low, little chromium would be available to be dumped into the bladder)..

Unfortunately, you can't just pay a visit to your friendly neighbourhood laboratory for a chromium check-up, because there's no simple test which reliably pinpoints chromium deficiency. For one thing, most labs aren't sophisticated enough to get a precise reading of blood chromium levels. A key problem is contamination: The tubes in which the blood is collected may contain traces of chromium, and if the blood is collected with a stainless steel needle, all bets are off (stainless steel needles contain a hefty chromium concentration, some of which will leach into the blood sample, possibly making a deficient individual appear to be okay; to get around this problem, a lab would have to use a nickel-plated collection needle). At this point in time, another problem is that no one seems to know what is a 'healthy' blood concentration of chromium, or if blood-chromium levels truly represent chromium status in muscle tissue..

True, if you're glucose intolerant, you could establish that you were chromium deficient by taking chromium supplements and having your glucose malady disappear - and then reappear when you stopped taking chromium. If you're not glucose intolerant, though, it's pretty hard to know if your chromium's really okay..

Continued »


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

*Assessing the risks*

*
*Since chromium tests are hard to administer and interpret, some nutritional experts prefer to talk about an individual's risk of developing a chromium deficiency, which is said to increase if a person:

1) Has a diet which is high in simple sugars (such diets tend to increase urinary chromium excretion, sometimes by as much as 300 per cent!),

2) Eats fairly large quantities of 'refined' foods, especially those which contain lots of white flour and sugar (such foods have a low chromium content),

3) Has high blood-insulin levels, which increase chromium requirements, and/or

4) Exercises intensely fairly frequently, which roughly doubles chromium excretion..

Trouble is, that's not a very precise way of reckoning whether you need more chromium. In addition, you could get around risk factors no. 1 and 2 by making some simple changes in your diet, rather than taking chromium supplements. So, let's take a closer look at the actual scientific research on chromium supplementation. Is there any solid reason to think that chromium could be helpful to athletes?

Evans' work (mentioned above) linking chromium with body-composition improvements in football players came in for criticism from other scientists, with one of the biggest carps being that Evans did not control for potential steroid use by his athletes. However, Evans has ridiculed the notion that his players were 'juiced' on anabolic chemicals. 'Bemidji State is hardly a breeding ground for the National Football League,' notes the researcher. 'The school is in the hinterland of northern Minnesota, where drug abuse is about as common as mild winter weather. Plus, critics of the research can't explain why only the chromium-supplemented athletes would have been using steroids, while placebo-group individuals were keeping themselves clean,' Evans adds..

Evans, an inorganic chemist who has recently published a book entitled Chromium Picolinate: Everything You Need to Know, has also published his research in some rather obscure scientific journals - or not at all. One reason for this is that he did not use the most widely accepted technique dual x-ray absorptiometry (DEXA) - to measure body composition, causing some scientists to question whether his results were meaningful (and making it hard for Evans to get his studies into mainstream journals)..

Although Evans' methodology has been questioned, no one can fault him for lack of energy and enthusiasm - or for not making an effort to understand the full effects of chromium within the human body. In one unpublished study, Evans found that male athletes increased lean mass while taking in 400 daily mcg of chromium. An especially interesting aspect of this third study was that Evans was able to link chromium supplementation with higher DHEA concentrations and lower insulin levels..

The DHEA connection is an interesting one. DHEA is a steroid hormone, manufactured in the adrenal glands of both males and females, which seems to serve as a 'back-up' sex hormone. In females, the DHEA can be converted to oestrogen, assisting in bone building and other essential activities. In males, DHEA can be transformed into testosterone, a potent builder of muscle and connective tissue. Overall, DHEA has anabolic effects similar to those claimed for chromium picolinate..

However, the key aspect of this story is that higher insulin levels seem to lead to lower DHEA concentrations, while reduced insulin permits greater DHEA. Since chromium enhances the potency of insulin, it allows the body to get by with a lowered insulin output. 'The consequent upswing in DHEA may be one reason why chromium supplementation enhances muscle mass so well,' contends Evans..

*In support of Evans*

But does chromium really enhance muscle mass? Up until now, we basically had Evans' much-criticised research and swine studies to support this hypothesis. However, a very recent study, using a higher-than-usual dose of chromium given over a longer-than-normal time period, supports the idea that chromium can boost muscle tissue. In this research, carried out at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio, 40 collegiate swimmers were divided into two groups, with one group (10 males and 10 females) ingesting 400 mcg of chromium picolinate per day for 24 weeks and the other group (also 10 males and 10 females) following a normal, non-supplemented diet. The two groups trained in identical fashion..

After 24 weeks, the chromium-rich swimmers had increased lean mass by 3.3 per cent and decreased per cent body fat by 6.4 per cent, compared to the placebo swimmers. The improvement was actually greatest in the chromium-supplementing female swimmers, who carved body fat by over 8 per cent. Anecdotally, chromium swimmers tended to report more performance improvements and less muscle soreness, compared to non-supplemented athletes ('Chromium Picolinate Supplementation in Male and Female Swimmers,' Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, vol. 28(5), p. S111, Abstract no. 664, 1996)..

Why did the Wright State study find key benefits associated with chromium supplementation, while several other studies have detected little positive effect? Dr. D. Drew Pringle, one of the Wright State researchers, contends that the higher dosage of chromium (400 mcg rather than the usual 200) and longer time period of the study (24 weeks instead of eight to 12 weeks) were key reasons for the difference. 'The greatest rate of change in body composition didn't take place until after 12 weeks of supplementation,' says Pringle. Unfortunately, Pringle's group used underwater weighing to assess body-composition changes, a method which is considered less reliable than DEXA..

Some athletes swear by it. Anecdotally, chromium's popularity with athletes seems to indicate that it must be having some kind of effect. After all, many athletes swear that their performances have improved post-chromium-supplementation, and many individuals who are trying to shed pounds say that 'nothing worked' until they tried chromium. Of course, the placebo effect may be at work here, but another point to consider is that many 'chromium supplements' are actually not pure chromium picolinate but combinations of chromium with some pretty potent other stuff. In fact, one of the most popular chromium supplements sold in health-food stores and nutrition shops actually contains chromium and a very potent herbal extract called 'Ma Huang'..

Ma Huang is actually a powerful stimulant, known to boost metabolism, step up heart rate, heighten alertness, and - possibly - increase muscular strength. Its key ingredient is ephedrine, a chemical which is banned from the competitive stage by both the NCAA and the IOC. In a variety of different studies, ephedrine has been linked with increased weight loss and improvements in body composition (see, for example, "The Effect of Ephedrine/Caffeine Mixture on Energy Expenditure and Body Composition in Obese Women," Metabolism, vol. 41(7), pp. 686-688, 1992). This of course raises the possibility that the key ingredient in the 'chromium supplements' which are so popular with athletes and weight-reduction people may in fact not be chromium but Ma Huang..

So, what's the bottom line on chromium? The recommended 'safe and adequate intake' for chromium has been set at 50 to 200 mcg per day by the Recommended Dietary Allowance Committee of the National Research Council in the United States, but research suggests that about 90 per cent of the population in the U.S. and Britain consume less than 50 micrograms daily ('Chromium Intake, Absorption, and Excretion of Subjects Consuming Self-Selected Diets,' American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, vol. 41, pp. 1177-1183, 1985). 'Our studies suggest that many athletes are only taking in 30 to 35 mcg daily, so it's not too unreasonable to say that these people should consider taking in more chromium,' notes Marc Rogers, Ph.D., a former St. Louis Marathon winner who is currently an exercise physiologist at the University of Maryland..

Rogers is actually one of the researchers who found no upswings in muscle or downturns in fat associated with 200 mcg of daily chromium. 'It is possible that there's a threshold effect at work here,' says Rogers. 'Maybe you do have to take at least 400 mcg of the stuff over a fairly long period to get a benefit.'

Many nutritional experts have contended that one shouldn't exceed a daily dose of 200 mcg in order to avoid the possibility of chromium toxicity. However, those fears seem to be fading. Chromium expert Richard Anderson (principal investigator in the four-month Chinese study using 1000 mcg per day) says you can take much higher amounts without risk. He believes that extra chromium simply passes out of the body in urine, an event confirmed by the Massachusetts research mentioned earlier. Pringle found no problems with intakes of 400 mcg daily in his half-year study, and a current investigation carried out with humans at Penn State University is actually using 900 mcg of daily chromium. The latter study is being carried out by esteemed researchers Wayne Campbell and Bill Evans with a group of male strength trainers aged 50 to 75, many of whom are overweight. 'This is precisely the kind of group with people who tend to have higher insulin and blood-sugar levels - in which we'd expect to see a positive effect from chromium,' says Campbell..

*Common sense about chromium*

Campbell has no major problem with people taking chromium supplements in reasonable quantities but contends that athletes should remember that chromium is no magical elixir. 'You'll get a much greater improvement in muscle mass from an excellently conducted strength-training programme than you will from taking chromium supplements, ' says Campbell. 'And if you want to lose weight, you'll be be far better off focussing on reducing caloric intake and increasing exercise levels, instead of relying on chromium.'

Richard Anderson, who spearheaded the Chinese study which linked chromium with benefits for Type II diabetics, says, 'It's a reasonable idea for athletes to take 200 micrograms of chromium daily, along with a balanced nutritional supplement which includes the other essential vitamins and minerals.' Anderson's statement seems quite sensible. At this point in time, PEAK PERFORMANCE can't recommend taking higher doses of chromium - at least not until another study demonstrating the benefits of such supplementation is carried out with humans. To verify the effects of chromium, this investigation should be one which uses DEXA, not underwater weighing, bioelectrical impedance, or skin callipers, to measure body composition..

Owen Anderson


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

Very interesting post Tan!

A few thoughts:

1 The DHEA link is over-rated (in young males anyhow) as IME direct DHEA supplementation does little in the way of anabolic effects. This maybe different from aged males (whose DHEA may have declined). I do not know the effects in females sorry.

2 There are comments in the post of "activates insulin". The specifics of this is important. It would be unlikely IMO that an increase in insulin secretion would result in the type of recomposition changes mentioned. The recomposition changes could be a result of an increased sensitivity of skeletal muscle to insulin. A very quick look on pubmed brought up an abstract of a study (I do not have the full text, nor have I looked for other studies to confirm this either) that suggests that there is an increase in Insulin Receptor, GLUT4, glycogen synthase (GS), and uncoupling protein-3 (UCP3) from Chromium supplementation.



> Biol Trace Elem Res. 2009 Mar 13. [Epub ahead of print]Click here to read Links
> 
> Chromium Improves Glucose Uptake and Metabolism Through Upregulating the mRNA Levels of IR, GLUT4, GS, and UCP3 in Skeletal Muscle Cells.
> 
> ...


If GLUT4 activity in muscle is increased the this should have positive effects on anabolic partitioning (of similar type to creatine). An increase in Insulin Receptor would probably have partitioning effects too, and could possibly increase the sensitivity of skeletal muscle protein synthesis to insulin ie(increasing muscle building from Insulin and Leucine). The UCP-3 is very interesting as this is associated with regulating energy expenditure, body weight, and thermoregulation (although I don't know much about uncoupling proteins).

3 Anecdotally, I did not notice all that much from Chromium Pic supplementation at the RDA dose. I may try this at a higher intake (as you post would suggest that any excess is excreted anyhow) and see if it makes any difference. It will probably be about 6weeks before I can experiment with this though.

4 A friend of mine supplemented chromium & vanadyl (I do not recall the doses sorry) and claimed that he had great effects from it. The inconclusive results across the different studies may just be because of the differences in peoples metabolism - some people may be sensitive or deficient, and some may not.

J


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Joshua - I actually just came across the article as I was looking for some info on dosages. I just found the article as a whole quite interesting and as I said it seemed quite unbiased which was refreshing. I am by no means clever enough or knowledgable enough in this area to criticise it. I think however where it discusses the relationship between the insulin and DHEA it is not talking about the supplemetation of DHEA the about the levels already present....I could however have misunderstood this.

I have been recommened the use of CP to regulate sugar cravings and I have been lead to believe from a much more knowledgable source than myself that it works well for us women folk so I was looking for information that was dosage related and I feel the article has given me a good starting point. I was looking at about 200mcg ED? And see what happens.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

*DHEA*



> I think however where it discusses the relationship between the insulin and DHEA it is not talking about the supplementation of DHEA the about the levels already present....I could however have misunderstood this.


Sure I would agree with your take on this, although they were claiming that DHEA levels were higher in Chromium treated groups:



> An especially interesting aspect of this third study was that Evans was able to link chromium supplementation with higher DHEA concentrations and lower insulin levels


If the effects of chromium were because of it increasing DHEA, then one would expect similar effects from treating someone with DHEA directly.

They then went on to mention the anabolic effects of DHEA, and what I was suggesting was that DHEA strength as an androgen (like testosterone) is often overestimated. It is quite weak on paper, and weak IME too.

*Chromium on sugar cravings*

Anyhow, apart from my doubts as to the effects of CP being via increased DHEA, I would agree with you that it would work on women just as much as men. The best way to find out if it works on you though is give it a go.

Just out of interest, do you use Creatine, Cinnamon, or artificial sweetener in your diet?

For what it's worth, I have found that keeping a constant trickle of low GI carbs helps stabilise blood sugar, but sometimes it takes a while to kick in.

All the best,

J


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Points taken! I agree that often the anticipated effects of things is often unrealistic.

With regards to food. My diet is pretty good...not perfect but I don't profess to being perfect and I think few people are lol. I have lots of low GI carbs but not exclusivley but they are definitely in the majority. I rarely have sweeteners but do sometimes use them in low cal baking goods. And it would be a no to the cinamon. I just have a HUGE appetite and if I was a bloke I would be mahooooosive lol, unfortunately as a lass this isn't a good plan of action


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## eggeater (Mar 19, 2009)

Is Chromium picolinate ok to take on an empty stomach?

peace!


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

I take mine after my brekki!


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## elliedriver69 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hi thank you for all the hard work you've done researching chromium.

i have long believed this to be a much under utilized 'friend' for anyone that exercises.

i have medical background and now work with people that have eating disorders etc.

chormium is a good place to start with people that suffer with dips and low in blood sugar.

as the article outlines chormium is essential for allowing the cells to 'release' energy, so what ever your 'sport' that can only be a good thing.

it has a role to play in protecting DNA so therefore a small role in muscle development. if that's your ultimate goal we all know there are more beneficial supplementss to develop muscle, but..

... for those days you're just not feeling it and maybe havent been as good on the nutrition as you could have been, chromium could make all the difference to a good work out.

trails show no toxicity up to 1000mg. 250mcg is the average RDA and a good place to start.

fantastic at regulating blood sugar, fantastic results for diabetics and athletes alike.

generally best to take it with a meal or there abouts.

i think everyone that reads the article should just give it a try and see if their energy levels improve, even if their muscle mass doesn't.

so everyone now go and check out chromiums good friend 'HCA' hydroxycitric acid...

its natural (extracted from tamarind fruit rind)

it inhibits enzyme ATP citrate lyase which to me and you means it stops sugar being turned into fat.

whoop

750mg is a good recommened dosage.

good luck with your're chromium trails elfin tan

post back and update here if you feel any difference?

good luck

x


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## 1bpk (Jun 22, 2009)

elliedriver69 said:


> 750mg is a good recommened dosage.
> 
> x


750mcg not mg, that would probably kill you :death:

I take 200mcg twice a day


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## elliedriver69 (Nov 20, 2008)

nope!

i did mean 750mg. i didnt say 750mg of chromimum is said HCA. tut tut 1bpk you must read replies more carefully ;-))

200 to 250mcg is a general guide because there is currently no RDA for chormium.

there is something called optimum daily allowance (ODA) for chromium and that is generally thought of as 125mcg.

Toxicity occurs geneally at levels of around 1000mg with chromium so even 750mg wouldnt kill you.... unless you choked on a tablet, but there's no need to take this amount and 250mcg is a good start.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

elliedriver69 said:


> 'HCA' hydroxycitric acid...
> 
> its natural (extracted from tamarind fruit rind)
> 
> ...


Thanks for this post.

When I tried HCA, I got no results until I hit 14g.d-1 (as part of a multiple ascending dose protocol).

J


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## elliedriver69 (Nov 20, 2008)

hi joshua i have read some research about taking it in conjunction with 100mg of 5 HTP aswell? were you told this too? some good results posted.

but ive also been taught that if the B group of vitamins is low then it reduces the effectiveness of any weight loss?

nutrition is a complex subject?

i guess the biggest problem with 'natural' is that the big pharmacutical companies don't make loads of money from it, so they don't invest a lot of money of trials compared to the drugs they manufacture.

do you mind me asking if you saw a reduction in b/f with that protocol and would you recommend HCA? also were you taking it with chromium?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

elliedriver69 said:


> hi joshua i have read some research about taking it in conjunction with 100mg of 5 HTP aswell? were you told this too? some good results posted.
> 
> but ive also been taught that if the B group of vitamins is low then it reduces the effectiveness of any weight loss?
> 
> ...


I am not aware of any direct interaction between the HCA & 5HTP, however 5-HTP is damn good for curbing some types of carb cravings.

Totally agree with the B-vitamins. I usually take a dose of 4x RDA of VitB every day as I have found that is what makes me feel the best ie the least fatigue. The theory certainly supports what you are saying about the VitB deficiency and energy too.

All subjects can be complex - it just depends how far down the rabbit hole you go.

Totally agree. There are loads of great remedies which cannot be commercially exploited, and the research and promotion of these remedies is often very poor. A classic case of this is hibiscus tea having similar effects to ACE inhibitors for blood pressure, but because it cannot be exploited in the same way, patients/taxpayers buy the expensive cures.

As far as reductions in b/f goes, I used HCA as part of a lean bulk with some other fairly extreme chemicals in the mix too. The idea being to minimise dietary fat intake, and to reduce cho conversion (as you mentioned). Although my goals and protocol was different from fat loss purpose, I am fairly confident that the dose-effect of HCA would apply for fat loss too. I cannot recall off the top of my head what dose of Chromium was at that time, but will go through my logs when I get chance.

Whether I would recommend it, depends on what the context ie(training & diet) which it is being used. I do believe it is effective at 14g.d-1 for that purpose, but that would totally depend on what the diet strategy was.

All the best,

J


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## elliedriver69 (Nov 20, 2008)

we've taken over elfin tans chromium article hope she doesnt mind!

thank you for your reply. i have never tried any intense weight workouts before but am going to start tomorrow. i have always danced and run but never been a big gym goer.

im going to try your natural cocktail and see if it helps me! as for my own diet stratergy? i would definately like some definition so i guess im going to have to drop some fat too.

so interesting to read your reply.

hope to catch you again!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I keep forgetting to take mine.

Nice post.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

Please continue....my post was a simple copy and paste but you guys are taking the discussion further and it's benefiting anyone that reads it (although I'm not understanding most of it lol) :whistling:


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I used to supplement with Chrome pic back in 99 but then changed to Vanadyl Sulph for slightly better results IMO.

i'll post here as it's very similar themed

here's a short intro Cut n paste...

How does it work?

Vanadyl sulphate is an essential trace mineral present in varying amounts in the soil and in many foods. It's derived from the trace mineral vanadium.Who is it used for?

Vanadyl sulphate is extremely popular with bodybuilders. Used 15-20 minutes prior to a competition, it helps to increase vascularity and muscle "fullness." Bodybuilders using vanadyl sulphate regularly for several week usually gain both muscle size and strength.How does it work?

The interest in vanadium began in the late 1970s when research highlighted the important role vanadyl sulphate plays in the control of blood sugar levels [3]. When you eat large amounts of carbohydrates, sugar levels in the blood increase. This sugar can be stored as fat. However, studies show that vanadyl sulphate increases the rate at which carbohydrate and protein enter muscle cells. This helps to swell each muscle fibre, increasing both muscle size and vascularity. There is also evidence to show that vanadyl sulphate diverts sugar away from storage in fat cells, reducing the amount of fat your body stores.

Competitive bodybuilders find vanadyl sulphate especially effective because of the fullness it gives their muscles. It's usually taken prior to exercise in order to improve the muscle "pump" and vascularity. Vanadyl sulphate is so effective, it has been used to lower blood sugar levels and control insulin in diabetics [1, 2]. In one study of people with type II diabetes, vanadium also lowered total and LDL (the "bad") cholesterol. The best sources of vanadium are mushrooms, shellfish, black pepper, parsley, dill weed, soybeans grain and grain products, sweeteners, and some cereals. A normal diet typically provides about 10-30 micrograms of vanadium per day.

How do I use it?

Vanadyl sulphate is used in one of two ways. Most bodybuilders report greater pumps and feelings of muscle "fullness" when approximately 60 milligrams of vanadyl sulphate is taken 15-20 minutes before exercise or a competition. Bodybuilders who regularly use Vanadyl sulphate with high-carbohydrate meals (20-30 milligrams three times daily) usually gain both muscle strength and size, when combined with an appropriate diet and vigorous weight-training programme.What results can I expect?

Most bodybuilders report greater pumps and feelings of muscle "fullness" when approximately 60 milligrams of vanadyl sulphate is taken 15-20 minutes before exercise or a competition. Regular users of vanadyl sulphate usually notice greater strength, vascularity and muscle size after 3-7 days.What can it be combined with?

Some bodybuilders also combine vanadyl sulphate with other nutrients such as alpha-lipoic acid and chromium and use it before exercise or a contest to enhance vascularity and muscle hardness.


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## Propper Joss (Aug 22, 2009)

Great thread. Thank-you :cool2: .


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## Marcus Ferreira (May 7, 2010)

As we are talking about Chromium Picolinate, here's an article about CP and Diabetes

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*Chromium Picolinate and Diabetes*



Chromium Picolinate (CP) is a form of Chromium, a chemical element present in the human body. Several scientific studies have shown that this is a critical mineral for fighting diabetes.

One of these studies analyzed 180 type 2 diabetics and the results were certainly amazing: after 4 months, patients taking 500mg of CP twice a day, stopped showing the normal signs of a diabetic person. Blood sugar and insulin decreased to levels considered to be normal. Apart from this, A1c hemoglobin, which measurements indicates blood sugar levels, also was reduce to normal levels *[*1]*.
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A research carried out on 833 type 2 diabetics who consumed 500mg of CP twice a day showed a significant reduction of blood sugar levels. Furthermore, more than 85% of patients registered a decrease of the common symptoms of diabetics: excessive thirst, fatigue and a continuous need of urinating. No side effects were documented. *[*2]*.
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Another research showed a 40% reduction of the insulin resistance levels *[*3]*.
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Many type 1 and type 2 patients who were in an advanced stage of the disease had a positive feedback to the Chromium Picolinate supplementation. Near 70% of type 1&2 diabetics improved after consuming 200mg of CP once a day. Some of them registered an increase of sensitivity to insulin circulation, which promoted a decrease of the insulin doses to be daily injected *[*4]*.

One study carried out by the United States Department of Agriculture showed that CP is better absorbed by muscle and kidney tissue than Chromium Nicotinate or Chloride *[*5]*. The absorption of the mineral by these tissues is essential, because CP must go through the acids of the digestive system for a good result.
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*CONCLUSION*



Chromium Picolinate helps insulin to work efficiently in the organism. Those diabetics who took part in the tests taking 200mg of this supplement, showed a reasonable improvement. Nevertheless, they did not reach the results obtained by those who took 1000mg per day.

Unfortunately, many people do not even take the minimum recommended dose of 50mg of CP per day. A study carried out by American researchers revealed that men take 33mg of CP per day, while women take only 25% *[*6]*.
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**REFERENCES OR NOTES:*

*[*1]* - Elevated intakes of supplemental chromium improve glucose and insulin variables in individuals with type 2 diabetes, Diabetes Vol. 46 Nº 11 1786-1791 , November 1997 (*LINK*)

*[*2]* - Follow-up survey of people in China with type 2 diabetes mellitus consuming supplemental chromium, The Journal of Trace Elements in Experimental Medicine Vol. 12 - Issue 2, Págs. 55-60, May 1999 (*LINK*)

*[*3]* - Effect of chromium picolinate on insulin sensitivity in vivo, The Journal of Trace Elements in Experimental Medicine Vol. 12 - Issue 2, Págs. 71 - 83, May 1999 (*LINK*)

*[*4]* - Ravina A, Slezak L, Rubal A, et al., Clinical use of the trace element chromium (III) in the treatment of diabetes mellitus, The Journal of Trace Elements in Experimental Medicine 8: 183-190, 1995

*[*5]* - Lack of toxicity of chromium chloride and chromium picolinate in rats, Journal of The American College of Nutrition Vol. 16 - Issue 3 273-279, 1997 (*LINK*)

*[*6]* - Chromium intake, absorption and excretion of subjects consuming self- selected diets, The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition Vol. 41, 1177-1183, 1985 (*LINK*)

Source: http://logon.prozis.com/chromium-picolinate-and-diabetes/


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