# low carbs-bulk?



## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

i am trying to bulk and as i am new to this trying differnt ways, but i have found out that me and carbs dont go well together, i put on fat far to easy, i am having about 300g a day atm, am just wondering, could i bulk on just having carbs say pre workout and post workout? about 100g a day? or even lower? i just dont want to bulk with high carbs as i could see myself putting alot of fat on!

when i cut out the carbs for my summer holiday and had one carb up day a week, i got into good shape, just lost abit of muscle, so am wondering can you actually build muscle without carbs?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

If carb sensitive then carbs PWO is a good idea, just make sure that it is PWO only, and maybe a refeed/cheat once every couple of weeks. On a v-low carb diet, you will be surprised how many calories you can eat without getting fat. Recently I was on 5000 calories a day with 300+ g fat, 300 protein, and <30g carbs, and was staying lean. Unfortunately injury got me, and I went back to eating crap, probably comfort as I couldn't train.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

that was my mistake last time mate, i kept protien very high, but fats not so, what sort of fat/protein should i be looking at, just pwo mean post and pre workout? or just one of them? i feel the need to stay off the carbs as i dont like the fat im putting on with them!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Post workout carbs only. Maybe 75g of dextrose with 50g whey protein. The remainder of your diet should be fairly simple

Whole Eggs

Dead Animals and Birds (Fatty Cuts, chicken skin on etc)

Natty Peanut Butter

Fish (Makrell, sardines, salmon)

Flax Oil/EVOO/Fish Oils/coconut oil

Make protein shakes with whipping cream.

Some green salad or green veg, but sparingly.

Drink plenty of water, and a good high dose multivitamin. H&B Mega Vits or something.

Don't cook with liquid fats (use butter, coconut oil, or lard)

Avoid commercial vegetable oils at all costs.

P.S. Don't ask me about saturated fats and health, there is nothing wrong with saturated fats especially when on a carb restricted diet.


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## big_john86 (Dec 5, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> Post workout carbs only. Maybe 75g of dextrose with 50g whey protein. The remainder of your diet should be fairly simple
> 
> Whole Eggs
> 
> ...


 reps to the keto king:thumb:


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

B|GJOE said:


> Post workout carbs only. Maybe 75g of dextrose with 50g whey protein. The remainder of your diet should be fairly simple
> 
> Whole Eggs
> 
> ...


quality advice mate! thanks alot, mind if i pm you to ask you a few more questions?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

james4d said:


> quality advice mate! thanks alot, mind if i pm you to ask you a few more questions?


Would rather you asked them on the open forum mate, then everyone can benefit. But if you would rather PM that's fine too.


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Ask them on this thread so other members can benefit.


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Beat me to it Joe.


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## Cliff (May 2, 2010)

B|GJOE said:


> Recently I was on 5000 calories a day with 300+ g fat, 300 protein, and <30g carbs, and was staying lean.


 :rockon:


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

ok , was just wondering though, with no carbs will that just mentain my current size and drop bodyfat or will i grow but bodyfat will go down? and can you eat to much fat/protien if your not touching any carbs?

as ive said i want to find a alternative to bulking with carbs as it dosent work for me at all, the fat i put on is just stupid! so its not worth it!


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

Joe when you say don't cook with oils, I usually when cooking chic breasts put EVOO on the chic so it basically doesn't stick to the foreman lol, bad idea I take it?


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## Gza1 (Aug 6, 2007)

B|GJOE said:


> If carb sensitive then carbs PWO is a good idea, just make sure that it is PWO only, and maybe a refeed/cheat once every couple of weeks. On a v-low carb diet, you will be surprised how many calories you can eat without getting fat. Recently I was on 5000 calories a day with 300+ g fat, 300 protein, and <30g carbs, and was staying lean. Unfortunately injury got me, and I went back to eating crap, probably comfort as I couldn't train.


was that a bulk then mate?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

SK-XO said:


> Joe when you say don't cook with oils, I usually when cooking chic breasts put EVOO on the chic so it basically doesn't stick to the foreman lol, bad idea I take it?


the reason is cooking with olive oil turns it into a ****y fat basically as it doesnt have a high heat tolerance. something like coconut oil or mac nut oil is better to cook in.

olive oil is better just straight and not heated


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

hilly said:


> the reason is cooking with olive oil turns it into a ****y fat basically as it doesnt have a high heat tolerance. something like coconut oil or mac nut oil is better to cook in.
> 
> olive oil is better just straight and not heated


Oh lol, so i'll get some coconut oil have a look anyway.

Whats best for fats say if I add to my shake is evoo cool? cheers have some reps


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

yeh evoo is great for that mate. however both are good additions. i read a study before showing evoo helps improve metabolism so thats a bonus.

coconut is mct oils which have their own list of very good benefits and uses in the body.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I think you can low carb bulk perfectly well but am not sure it's for everyone... when I tried it I just couldn't get it right, or at least never to the point of being as effective or feeling as good as with a higher carb content.

I think carb and fat tolerances differ wildly between individuals though - lots of different genes involved, and that combined with how you tolerate carbs and respond to insulin based on your current state of health, are the two main factors that should determine your bulking approach. IMO.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Gza1 said:


> was that a bulk then mate?


It was supposed to be, but 4 weeks in got hit with a torn pectineus muscle, so had 2 weeks off all training followed by 2 weeks moderate. Still recovering......

When everything is sorted, intend to go back to a low carb bulk.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

im going to try a low carb bulk, still try and error at this stage for me, but what i do no is that im having about 250-300g and its putting on the fat!


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

B|GJOE said:


> Post workout carbs only. Maybe 75g of dextrose with 50g whey protein. The remainder of your diet should be fairly simple
> 
> Whole Eggs
> 
> ...


Natty peanut butter Im assuming is being used *sparingly* ?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Captain Hero said:


> Natty peanut butter Im assuming is being used *sparingly* ?


If the majority of the diet is meats, cheese, and eggs, then you can actually get away with quite a bit of natty peanut butter. Only 9.9g carbs per 100g natty smooth, so could actually have 200g in a day if rest of diet is carb free.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

B|GJOE said:


> If the majority of the diet is meats, cheese, and eggs, then you can actually get away with quite a bit of natty peanut butter. Only 9.9g carbs per 100g natty smooth, so could actually have 200g in a day if rest of diet is carb free.


Awesome thanks Joe, think I might have to get some double cream too


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

i was trying this for abit, but it didnt work, so im back on carbs with the size comes some fat, but than can come off when am cutting


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

Double cream, Peanut Butter, Choc Protein Shake = YUM!


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Lol, that didn't last long!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Rekless said:


> Double cream, Peanut Butter, Choc Protein Shake = YUM!


and 3 raw whole eggs, before bed!! :thumb: :thumb :

In the shake that is


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

this is quite a useful article surrounding the matter.

http://www.musclehack.com/best-bodybuilding-diet-plan-revealed/

Also the Anabolic Diet and TNT Diet are based on this low carb bulk principle


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

james4d said:


> i was trying this for abit, but it didnt work, so im back on carbs with the size comes some fat, but than can come off when am cutting


How long is a bit???


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

well i would ideally like to do this, but within 5 days my size went down a fair bit, (noticable) so i decided to get more carbs in, i need a complete diet over haul and dont know where to start!


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

Rekless said:


> this is quite a useful article surrounding the matter.
> 
> http://www.musclehack.com/best-bodybuilding-diet-plan-revealed/
> 
> Also the Anabolic Diet and TNT Diet are based on this low carb bulk principle


after reading that mate i am going to give it another go! low carb is deffo the way forward due to the carb up at the weekend! thanks alot for this link


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## blackbeard (May 3, 2009)

Don't panic about losing size when deprived of carbs it will be just water weight,your body is not going to cannibalize muscle in 5 days.I Regularly put 4 kg on in 8 hours on a refeed day when on this type of diet.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

the thing is though, if you want size, wont this just mean you will only look "big" on the carb ups


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

B|GJOE said:


> and 3 raw whole eggs, before bed!! :thumb: :thumb :
> 
> In the shake that is


Just out of curiosity Joe, how come you always recommend raw eggs when they've been proven to have significantly less bioavailable protein than when cooked?


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

There are as many studies concluding that cooking eggs destroy all nutrients as raw eggs are wasted, and remember that scientist changes their view every so often.

You need to make a research and come out with your own conclusion. There is not a fixed conclusion and definitely not a definitive conclusion.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2010)

B|GJOE said:


> Post workout carbs only. Maybe 75g of dextrose with 50g whey protein. The remainder of your diet should be fairly simple
> 
> Whole Eggs
> 
> ...


Sparingly? Whys this mate?

When on keto i tend to eat more veg than at any other time. Shed loads of greens, leaves, broccolli etc.

Curious what your reasoning is

Ta


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

i did this (theres a journal on here somewhere) and it worked but I hjust found it VERY difficult to get the required Kcals in as protein and fats egenrally leave you feeling full and happy and consuming the excess calories i need was practically very hard - but from a theory stand point with enough carbs circa workout I like the plan


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

akalatengo said:


> There are as many studies concluding that cooking eggs destroy all nutrients as raw eggs are wasted, and remember that scientist changes their view every so often.
> 
> You need to make a research and come out with your own conclusion. There is not a fixed conclusion and definitely not a definitive conclusion.


I think the most widely accepted conclusion is that light cooking hydrolyzes the proteins and makes them more bioavailable, but cooking beyond this point causes crosslinking of the proteins which then reduces the bioavailablity to the point of being worse than raw.

The best way to cook eggs is to the point of the yolks being still fairly runny and before they get hard, as firmness of the yolk is a direct result of protein crosslinking.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> Just out of curiosity Joe, how come you always recommend raw eggs when they've been proven to have significantly less bioavailable protein than when cooked?


Normally I have fried in morning, boiled in afternoon, and raw in evening. Problem at the moment is that I am hotel bound due to work so have no cooking facility, so all raw at the moment. Raw in shakes though because it's kinda hard to shake boiled eggs in.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Haha fair play Joe. And Dt now I'm just confused lol; I'm still scrambling them til cooked!


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## racky (Mar 7, 2010)

could a few of you big joe especialy read my..

Cocked up with cardio.. Help!

Post in this section its regarding keto.. Ive read and read about the diet but a seasoned eye givin me the all clear with my goal would b awsome..


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## green19210 (Jul 26, 2010)

While on the subject of a keto diet...this is the one im following. Any thoughts?

Meal 1:

3 whole eggs with two scoops of protein

Meal 2:

Two scoops of Protein with 1 tsp peanut butter with water.

Meal 3:

1 chicken breast with 1 serving of peanuts.

Meal 4:

Two scoops of Protein with peanut butter with water.

Meal 5:

1 tin of tuna with 1 serving of peanuts

Meal 6:

100g of lean beef with large bowl of green salad


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## Leiela (Feb 14, 2010)

just a quick question about fats, my understanding is that oil's turn into bad fat when they are heated upto and beyond smoking point.

I know ground nut oil has a higher smoking point than oil which is why i use it, but my understanding was as long as you used it for reasonably low heat frying, stirfry etc then it remained a good fat?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Leiela said:


> just a quick question about fats, my understanding is that oil's turn into bad fat when they are heated upto and beyond smoking point.
> 
> I know ground nut oil has a higher smoking point than oil which is why i use it, but my understanding was as long as you used it for reasonably low heat frying, stirfry etc then it remained a good fat?


It's all too complicated to be honest, so I just simplify it by sticking to a couple of rules.

1. Don't cook with liquid fats

2. Keep liquid fats in a cool dark place

3. Only buy cold pressed oils

This way, I'm sure to be safe with my fats, without going too sciency about which fats suit which temperatures.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

green19210 said:


> While on the subject of a keto diet...this is the one im following. Any thoughts?
> 
> Meal 1:
> 
> ...


Not the best keto diet I've seen. Too much peanut butter! and peanuts!

At a guess your protein will be too high and fats too low, and with all those nuts, carbs probably too high also.

Keto doesn't have to be so restrictive, remember you can eat cheeses, and cream for example.


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## green19210 (Jul 26, 2010)

B|GJOE said:


> Not the best keto diet I've seen. Too much peanut butter! and peanuts!
> 
> At a guess your protein will be too high and fats too low, and with all those nuts, carbs probably too high also.
> 
> Keto doesn't have to be so restrictive, remember you can eat cheeses, and cream for example.


Thanks for the reply, this is my first go at a keto! Ill have ago at ajusting it...although I'm not looking for any gain its purley for weight loss, if that makes any difference?


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

I am on about 180-200g fats per day and about 260g+ protein from switching from high carbs not so long ago.

My experience with it is that I still have plenty of energy, less bloat and lethargic but even better I am able to eat plenty more calories again especially now im on a cycle.

Im churning about 4000cals a day right now, not sure wether or not its the fat or cals but I seem to have more strength now from chancing to this method again, or maybe thats the test playing a part in that aswell. 

I must admit I have lost a few lbs though recently, but with my protein still being high and intaking plenty of fats, I am assuming thats just water and glycegen pump.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

andysutils said:


> I am on about 180-200g fats per day and about 260g+ protein from switching from high carbs not so long ago.
> 
> My experience with it is that I still have plenty of energy, less bloat and lethargic but even better I am able to eat plenty more calories again especially now im on a cycle.
> 
> ...


Good going dude! Its surprisingly easy how many cals you can take in during the day using High Fats and Proteins!

Im two weeks in now and have noticed that my jeans are feeling looser around the waste and stomach area and that my t shirts are feeling tighter around my arms, shoulders and back.

Ive dropped 3lb so far? havent noticed too much in the way of change in the mirror as yet.


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## thetong6969 (Nov 23, 2008)

had a shake with cream protein and a few stawberies(not too many as i am diabetic and have to take insulin with it)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gorgeous

so should i go back to cooking in lard like when i was 12? as a general rule?


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

green19210 said:


> Thanks for the reply, this is my first go at a keto! Ill have ago at ajusting it...although I'm not looking for any gain its purley for weight loss, if that makes any difference?


It makes no difference, its not keto when you have all them carbs.

I've just done 4 weeks keto been eating some nice cheese (had marmite cheese yesterday), i get beeff sandwich meats, sirloin, sea bass, full fat mayo, roast chicken with greasy skin, all sorts of nice foods but i crave carbs so badly, love carb ups, bread, potatoes etc.

Glad i read this thread, been on quite a harsh cut, fats dropped dramatically but finding training much harder and not groing obviously, wasnt sure about raising cals on ckd as i'm nearly at the bf% i was aiming for and dont want to gain fat so this has put my mind at rest.


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