# Thatcher is dead



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

...


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Rather her than me

RIP


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Wow - end of an era. She was most certainly a polarising figure. Don't know enough about politics to really comment intelligently on any of her policies. I do remember how she was known as Thatcher the Milk Snatcher after removing school milk.


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## madmuscles (Mar 10, 2011)

Well tbh it is a hazardous occupation especially seeing that 97% of all thatchers i've ever seen are not using scaffolding or safety harnesses.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Im not that much into politics tho did think she was the iron lady ok when sending in the sas to the iranian embassy and the troops into the falklands.

When she made decisions she certainly stuck to them.

Tho like i say im not into politics or offendig others in anyway as im sure some of her decisions did at times.

RIP the iron lady


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Heeeeeeeere we go..........................


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


what ??? a bit out or order nidge - the country now and under thatcher ??? you decide is it better now ???


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## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

Well this thread will a divided debate.

I look forward to barsnacks and loveleelady's comments later


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Bravo ash.... Bravo......


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## Dr Manhattan (Jan 8, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


The Labour PMs we had were much better. Tony Blair being a prime example :no:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

ah well


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## pez1206 (Feb 20, 2009)

Too young to comment but I know shes like marmite, love or hate ( @Nidge )


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

Last decent Prime Minister we've had. R.I.P.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Saville and now Thatcher.

Great 12 months for minors


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Today is a sad day.. She may not have got everything right, but she made Britain great for a while..

"Pennies do not come from heaven, they have to be earned here on earth"

Today's welfare spongers, could learn a thing or two..

We have lost a great woman.

RIP Baroness Thatcher.


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## Ballin (Aug 24, 2011)

Ashcrapper said:


> Saville and now Thatcher.
> 
> Great 12 months for minors


CNN didn't get the memo about Jimmy it seems....


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


Bit strong, that's an old lady that's just died.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Well at least it'll save us some cash, I remember reading something that said she'd claimed £500,000+ over 5 years in some sort of benefits


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## littlesimon (May 24, 2010)




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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

A spokesperson at the hospital has described her condition as satisfactory.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


You mean saving it Nidge?

you realise the other powerful countries were waving good bye to us as a power house as labour had royally fcuked the country up (as usual), Maggie comes in and sorts the sh!t out!


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> Well at least it'll save us some cash, I remember reading something that said she'd claimed £500,000+ over 5 years in some sort of benefits


Read that in the Sun did you ?


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


Shows how nasty a labour socialist can be, if the likes of Tony Blair or Gordon Brown died do you think there would be herds of Tory's celebrating someones death, I think not... Even though both of them made a mess of the country and in Tony's case sent many UK people to there deaths.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Course we could of just let Scargill rule the roost..

Now there you have a cnut of the highest order!!


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

dsldude said:


> Shows how nasty a labour socialist can be, if the likes of Tony Blar or Gordon Brown died do you think there would be
> 
> herds of Tory's celebrating someones death, I think not.


I would, I hate them cnuts, taking us to war over a pack of lies and then bailing out half way through to go earn millions..

That's lovely blair for ya!


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

Rot in pieces... :death:


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

I may not have believed in all of her policies, but I respect her for the fact that she obviously did. I wish we could say the same for the career politicians we have nowadays.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

McGuire86 said:


> Read that in the Sun did you ?


lol, no. Have a read yourself

Sky- http://news.sky.com/story/894570/thatcher-claims-500k-expenses-in-five-years

BBC- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15486792

Guardian- http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/28/margaret-thatcher-expenses-claim


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Never really knew much about her except that she authorised a naval task force to retake the Falkland Islands after been invaded by Argentina but I hope she rests in peace!


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

By far the greatest political leader in my lifetime, lost it a bit the last few years and should probably have gone earlier, but in comparison to the previous and post labour disasters? There isn't one.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Kimball said:


> By far the greatest leader in my lifetime, lost it a bit the last few years and should probably have gone earlier, but in comparison to the previous and post labour disasters! There isn't one.


Not as good as Roy Keane


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


She was still someones mother, grandmother and at the end a frail 87 year old lady who, being a lady, would never have made such a harsh comment towards another passing away.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> Not as good as Roy Keane


Ok political leader. Can't stand Roy keane but can't argue either!


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Kimball said:


> Ok political leader. Can't stand Roy keane but can't argue either!


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Dont know much about politics tbh so not botherd, people die everyday, 40 children died in Afghanistan yesterday.


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## [email protected] (Dec 9, 2012)

She was an inspiration and had more balls than any of today's politicians. RIP Maggie.


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## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

well here's a thread i have no opinion on and dont have a single gif at my disposal, oh well off to finnish of my powerpoint presentation i go..


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

just look at the pack of sh!t we have had since Thatcher - Major- Blair-Brown - and the current Larrel and Hardy - she had more balls than those lot of those w*nkers put together !!! full fcuking stop


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

i remember micheal foote said he would be prime minister one day - and one fcuking day would have been enough of him !!


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## kniterider (Nov 24, 2011)

As the son of a coal miner and I can only have one opinion and that's good riddance.


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

RIP Iron Lady, rust in piece


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

I am of an age when I remember Thatcher as Prime minister, what I admired most about her was that she was not afraid to be proud to be British and show it to others. If she was in power today then the criminals from far off places that stay here under the guise of human rights would have had their @rses kicked over the channel very quickly. She was not the new age hand wringing false smiles open door policy [email protected] that we have been stupid enough to elect today.


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

Justice for the 96


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## Little stu (Oct 26, 2011)

She had more balls than any pm since she done what she liked and thought **** the rest


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> well here's a thread i have no opinion on and dont have a single gif at my disposal, oh well off to finnish of my powerpoint presentation i go..


Closest I could find....


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

EFC said:


> Justice for the 96
> 
> View attachment 116912


Setting a good example there


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

McGuire86 said:


> Setting a good example there


It's obviously not my kid.


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

EFC said:


> Justice for the 96
> 
> View attachment 116912


I take it that you posted this to show what has become of Britain since she stopped being prime minister?


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> It's obviously not my kid.


how do we know that ??


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> how do we know that ??


Because he is watching the news.


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

EFC said:


> It's obviously not my kid.


Did I say it was ?


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

romper stomper said:


> how do we know that ??


because hes got a liverpool top on


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## bobbydrake (Nov 19, 2012)

Good riddance!


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> because hes got a liverpool top on


Clever boy!


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

EFC said:


> Clever boy!


I do pay attention


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Now we just have to wait for thy queen


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

EFC said:


> Justice for the 96
> 
> View attachment 116912


I just noticed that you have put " justice for the 96" on your post

Please explain as I cannot work that one out.


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## [email protected] (Dec 9, 2012)

Poke said:


> Now we just have to wait for thy queen


 :nono:


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

The Vegetarian said:


> I just noticed that you have put " justice for the 96" on your post
> 
> Please explain as I cannot work that one out.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

We're not going to hear the f*cking end of this...


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

The Vegetarian said:


> I just noticed that you have put " justice for the 96" on your post
> 
> Please explain as I cannot work that one out.


Thatcher was part of the cover up of the whole scandal


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

EFC said:


> Thatcher was part of the cover up of the whole scandal


You're really trolling for negs today!


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Kimball said:


> You're really trolling for negs today!


why?


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

She took no **** and would never give in to terrorists. fair play.

if you got nothing good to say, best saying nothing.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

meh.......


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## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

Admire her for making decisions and sticking to them. A strong willed and driven woman. A lot of her decions were completely wrong, but at the same time if nothing was done the UK would have been in a predicament now no doubt anyway.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> why?


Quoting zyzz and dissing the thatch, inexcusable!


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

As has been said many times already on this thread, she did some stupid ****, especially in the last part of her leadership but she was a hell of a leader of this country and whilst I appreciate not everyone will agree with what she did do, the fact that people are dancing on her grave already and ****ing celebrating is downright ****ing disgusting!!

If I had the choice between a Milliband, Clegg, Cameron or a Thatcher I damn well know who I would choose.

She had balls bigger than any of them, bunch of shallow wet flannel ****s.


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## PLauGE (Oct 17, 2010)

Not be missed by anyone in the mining village I live in, funnily enough the pit closed just saturday after years of struggles to keep it open, so its welcome news to most of us


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

PLauGE said:


> Not be missed by anyone in the mining village I live in, funnily enough the pit closed just saturday after years of struggles to keep it open, so its welcome news to most of us


You from Maltby? I lived there for a couple of years. My ex is from there too!


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## PLauGE (Oct 17, 2010)

Yes mate, small world,


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

I used to use a gym in Rotherham run by 2 lads who lived opposite me, but that was a lot of years ago!!!

Very small


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

There is a lot of talk about balls in this thread. I don't think a proud and powerful LADY would like the repeated references to her having a male body part, in order to portray her bravery, courage and honor. It is taking away her femininity and the significance of her being such an inspiration for women.

I am appalled and I hope you can all respect my view and only talk about balls in the Male Animal or Adult Lounge from now on. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against balls, they are useful and can be a lot of fun. I just feel there is a time and place to talk about balls.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

She's only been in Hell for a few hours and she's already shut down 3 furnaces


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## gycraig (Oct 5, 2008)

Ashcrapper said:


> She's only been in Hell for a few hours and she's already shut down 3 furnaces


Wow


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

prince william and harry could do a better job than the pack of w8ankers we currently have in the house of commons these days



> Not be missed by anyone in the mining village I live in, funnily enough the pit closed just saturday after years of struggles to keep it open, so its welcome news to most of us


shame we did not give Aurthur Scargill a go at pm we would all be rolling in cash by now and top of the tree on the word stage would we not ???


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> She's only been in Hell for a few hours and she's already shut down 3 furnaces


So ashcrapper, when you die you will feel a bit safer then.


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## [email protected] (Dec 9, 2012)

Shady45 said:


> There is a lot of talk about balls in this thread. I don't think a proud and powerful LADY would like the repeated references to her having a male body part, in order to portray her bravery, courage and honor. It is taking away her femininity and the significance of her being such an inspiration for women.
> 
> I am appalled and I hope you can all respect my view and only talk about balls in the Male Animal or Adult Lounge from now on. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against balls, they are useful and can be a lot of fun. I just feel there is a time and place to talk about balls.


Took a lot of balls to say that


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## JusNoGood (Apr 4, 2011)

The Vegetarian said:


> I am of an age when I remember Thatcher as Prime minister, what I admired most about her was that she was not afraid to be proud to be British and show it to others. If she was in power today then the criminals from far off places that stay here under the guise of human rights would have had their @rses kicked over the channel very quickly. She was not the new age hand wringing false smiles open door policy [email protected] that we have been stupid enough to elect today.


Very well said. I wasn't a huge fan of hers but we do need someone strong like her to sort out some of the limp left craziness going on.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

The Vegetarian said:


> So ashcrapper, when you die you will feel a bit safer then.


I'll never die.


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

If it wasn't for Thatcher and Scargill my parents wouldn't have lost everything and had to move to Greece.

As Frankie Boyle said "Instead of £3million pounds for her state funeral, we can buy a shovel for every person in Scotland and dig a hole so deep we'd deliver her to the Devil ourselves"


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## Paisleylad (Jan 22, 2013)

R.I.P Baroness Thatcher.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Ashcrapper said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster


hahaha class. I get it


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## scottish676 (Jun 30, 2009)

There will be very little sympathy or grief North of the border for that old boot

She can rot in hell


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

romper stomper said:


> what ??? a bit out or order nidge - the country now and under thatcher ??? you decide is it better now ???


The country is like it is now because of Thatcher, she fcuked more miners than Jimmy Saville, she took all decency out of the country and masde way for the fat cats, while rest of us mill round on minimum wage, and if we dont take it there always the incentice of the bedroom tax, Cameron is Thatcher reborn, its her policies over and over, punish the poor. good reidence to her.


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

freddee said:


> The country is like it is now because of Thatcher, she fcuked more miners than Jimmy Saville, she took all decency out of the country and masde way for the fat cats, while rest of us mill round on minimum wage, and if we dont take it there always the incentice of the bedroom tax, Cameron is Thatcher reborn, its her policies over and over, punish the poor. good reidence to her.


Load of rubbish, the country is like it is now because Labour have created a society where it is ok to live a life time on benefits.

The country was utterly ****ed when Thatcher was elected, she saved it from being written off completely. Hence the reason she was elected 3 times in a row.

Does anyone genuinely think that if the mines were still open, young British men would be going down them now? Would they ****.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Load of rubbish, the country is like it is now because Labour have created a society where it is ok to live a life time on benefits.
> 
> The country was utterly ****ed when Thatcher was elected, she saved it from being written off completely. Hence the reason she was elected 3 times in a row.
> 
> Does anyone genuinely think that if the mines were still open, young British men would be going down them now? Would they ****.


Exactly, and Cameron is only doing what needs to be done after the last labour government fvcked the country up.


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Hypocrisy Definition:

Whining about Thatcher being a heartless bitch and then rejoycing in her death.


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## Dr Manhattan (Jan 8, 2012)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> well here's a thread i have no opinion on and *dont have a single gif at my disposal*, oh well off to finnish of my powerpoint presentation i go..


Surely this can't be true!


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

Poeplw wont work, there is none, people are under occupying, it is the only place they were offered, people get 26000 in pay outs, ye 16000 of it to a rich old chum of cameron who has worked out bewcause he has money he can get the tax payer to pay his mortgage by renting it to benefit claiments, there are now more jobs in the private sector part time emplyment agency, temporary minimumwage crap, if the rich can avoid tax the poor should be able to avoid poverty, what happened to fare days work for a fare days pay?, the whole point is not what the job seeker gets which by the way is £71 per week, its what the low paid worker gets which is just not enough, wealth has to ber spread, for a society to thrive, the top 5% of earner gave themselves a 49% wage rise last year which then the concervatives gave them a 5% tax cut on, when people see and hear this do you expect them to to put their best foot forward or just realise they are stook in a poverty trap and play what cards they are given as best they can!!


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## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> well here's a thread i have no opinion on and dont have a single gif at my disposal, oh well off to finnish of my powerpoint presentation i go..


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## goodison1972 (Mar 18, 2012)

not going anywhere near this thread! :001_tt2:


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2013)




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## Guest (Apr 8, 2013)

Thatcher is dead WOOOOOO Party time  Street parties tomorrow


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

Cheeky Monkey said:


> Thatcher is dead WOOOOOO Party time  Street parties tomorrow


Pathetic :thumb:


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=9gq3A5W0zE8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D9gq3A5W0zE8


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Love her or hate her our Country would have probably ceased to exist if she did not come to power. She has nothing in common with the Tories of today. She came from a working class background and she knew that you should not spend more than what you earn. She was not from the chinless toffs that lead us now whose only disaster in life is not catching the fox or being served warm bubbly.

She stood up to bullies and, yes I agree that her path of selling off public assets was wrong, but the money had to come from somewhere.

The miners strike was very bad for the Country, but it is a little known fact that Scargill received money from what was the then Soviet Union to do it.

He also wanted to disband our armed forces and replace it with a peoples army, much like the North Korea of today.


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## bigbob33 (Jan 19, 2009)

Last strong leader this country had...


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

gummyp said:


> Well this thread will a divided debate.
> 
> I look forward to barsnacks and loveleelady's comments later


well i wouldn't want to dissapoint.......she should have been murdered 30years ago, nothing to celebrate or smile about...although Hell now has another resident


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

barsnack said:


> well i wouldn't want to dissapoint.......she should have been murdered 30years ago, nothing to celebrate or smile about...although Hell now has another resident


I think it was thirty years ago when the Brighton bombing incident happened. Are you referring to this?


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


Given the fact I live about 5 miles from Nidge I can wholeheartedly agree in fact this is what I wrote on another forum:

" I hope the **** burns in hell and if it's not hot enough then I'm sure there's a million miners that could throw some coals on the fires of Hell, not British coal as there isn't any left it would be Polish or Brazilian but **** her and the people that destroyed British Industry."


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

welbeck said:


> Given the fact I live about 5 miles from Nidge I can wholeheartedly agree in fact this is what I wrote on another forum:
> 
> " I hope the **** burns in hell and if it's not hot enough then I'm sure there's a million miners that could throw some coals on the fires of Hell, not British coal as there isn't any left it would be Polish or Brazilian but **** her and the people that destroyed British Industry."


There must be something in the air in that 5 mile radius that creates morons then.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

The Vegetarian said:


> I think it was thirty years ago when the Brighton bombing incident happened. Are you referring to this?


yep, she was horrible about the irish


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## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

Morrissey said she should have died in the 1984 Brighton bombing. He was probably right. For once.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

Mr_Socko said:


> There must be something in the air in that 5 mile radius that creates morons then.


Yes it's called Manual Labour, you think it's a Spanish waiter but it's the ability to turn hard work into money something that that POS got rid of and replace it with service industry, you know where bankers gamble your money and win whether you win or lose then bankrupt the country


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

People are seriously deluded if they think we would still have a strong UK coal industry even if Thatcher

hadn't existed.


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

welbeck said:


> Yes it's called Manual Labour, you think it's a Spanish waiter but it's the ability to turn hard work into money something that that POS got rid of and replace it with service industry, you know where bankers gamble your money and win whether you win or lose then bankrupt the country


Out of interest if you had a son of working age now, would you want him going down the mines? I know I wouldn't.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

dsldude said:


> People are seriously deluded if they think we would still have a strong UK coal industry even if Thatcher
> 
> hadn't existed.


During the cold spell the UK got down to 2 days worth of gas left, Another cold couple of days and the UK would have run out of heat do you think that would have happened if we still had coal?


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

I have a 20 year old son and him earning a grand a week would be ok by me


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

welbeck said:


> Yes it's called Manual Labour, you think it's a Spanish waiter but it's the ability to turn hard work into money something that that POS got rid of and replace it with service industry, you know where bankers gamble your money and win whether you win or lose then bankrupt the country


The mines were making a loss. These were loss making industries which were for the most part owned by the tax payer and were subsequently becoming a drain on taxes, so yes cuts had to be made and people lost their jobs. She didn't 'close down the mines', she simply stopped making everyone else subside them. In which other developed countries are the heavy industries still going as strong as they were in the seventies? Oh, of course Thatcher is probably responsible for their decline too...


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Being old enough to remember the disastrous state the country was before she took charge, I think she had a lot of good ideas. However, she took most of them too far.

The unions are a good example. They were rampantly out of control, but the working man needs collective bargaining and now that the unions are largely impotent we have that in name only.

Privatisation was another one. We had a number of nationalised industries that were very badly run and were costing the taxpayer a fortune. However, when you privatise essential services that do not lend themselves to a competitive market (electricity, gas, rail etc) you create perfect monopolies. As consumers, we are now paying a very hefty price for that policy.

Right-to-buy for council tenants might have seemed like a windfall for those who benefited but was that her motivation, or had she figured out that a man with a mortgage was far less likely to go on strike? And of course, there is now a dire shortage of social housing and those who have a home are paying a much higher proportion of their income to keep a roof over their head than was the case 30 years ago.

May she rest in peace - and shortly have Blair for company.


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

welbeck said:


> During the cold spell the UK got down to 2 days worth of gas left, Another cold couple of days and the UK would have run out of heat do you think that would have happened if we still had coal?


But we do still have coal we import it for a allot less than it cost to run UK coal mines and the country being held to ransom by their unions, but longterm coal is becoming obsolete do you know anyone who still uses it to heat their home because I dont, and coal fired power-stations are closing, Coal did once play a major part in our lives but its becoming less so with ever year that passes.


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## dirtymusket1 (May 24, 2008)

BigTrev said:


> Im not that much into politics tho did think she was the iron lady ok when sending in the sas to the iranian embassy and the troops into the falklands.
> 
> When she made decisions she certainly stuck to them.
> 
> ...


love her or hate her, she had more balls than a japanese ping pong team

Not too many politicians with that sort of backbone nowadays (If any)

R.I.P. :sad:


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

I'm all for a debate and listening to someone who will help educate myself. But I really wish people would read up on some of these so called facts before jumping on the band wagon. I can't stand thick deluded ignorant [email protected]


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

welbeck said:


> During the cold spell the UK got down to 2 days worth of gas left, Another cold couple of days and the UK would have run out of heat do you think that would have happened if we still had coal?


Power cuts were a routine occurrence when I were a lad in the seventies. We had coal then.


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## shaunmac (Aug 13, 2010)

Don't really do politics.

RIP old lady


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## chris l (Mar 30, 2011)

Thatcher has been been blamed for many things which in all honesty is wrong. My mum was a nurse in the sixties and she left in the early 70's, in her words Labour was destroying the NHS.

The only thing that pi55ed me off was the pole tax, having to pay 250 a month whilst serving in Germany but for I can forgive her for that as she did more good than bad. 70% of the population wouldn't be on the mortgage ladder with out her right to buy council homes policy.


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## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

Gary29 said:


> Closest I could find....





jon-kent said:


>





Dr Manhattan said:


> Surely this can't be true!


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

I'll put it this way no one in Ireland is too upset about it, everyone in Scotland seems to be the same so considering Scotland is part of the UK then she can't have been that great for your nation. To be honest though I am indifferent about her death, means f all to me really.


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## PLauGE (Oct 17, 2010)

Looks like the scots are having a good time bless um


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

dsldude said:


> Today is a sad day.. She may not have got everything right, but she made Britain great for a while..
> 
> "Pennies do not come from heaven, they have to be earned here on earth"
> 
> ...


Very few premiers leave a lasting legacy, she left two:

whole swathes of britain rotting and abandoned and also a world finantial system corrupted beyond belief and not fit for purpose anymore.

i ain't buying a paper tomorrow, not even the guardian.........


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Load of rubbish, the country is like it is now because Labour have created a society where it is ok to live a life time on benefits.
> 
> The country was utterly ****ed when Thatcher was elected, she saved it from being written off completely. Hence the reason she was elected 3 times in a row.
> 
> Does anyone genuinely think that if the mines were still open, young British men would be going down them now? Would they ****.


Yes look at the investments being made in Australian and American mines.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

lukeee said:


> You mean saving it Nidge?
> 
> you realise the other powerful countries were waving good bye to us as a power house as labour had royally fcuked the country up (as usual), Maggie comes in and sorts the sh!t out!


Saved it fcukin saved it, she split the fcukin place into three, the rich, the poor the working man and the unemployed. Don't give me that, she killed this country "DEAD". She whored China to bits and now we have Chinese items in our homes when before it was Phillips, Hoover etc etc.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

Smitch said:


> Exactly, and Cameron is only doing what needs to be done after the last labour government fvcked the country up.


Which was caused by Thatcher when she took away all manufacturing and gave the banks a free reign making the UK a service economy. Don't forget she Privatised the banking system.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I don't buy into this culture that people can be absolved of their bad deeds just by dying. You lose the right to just being "an old lady that died" or just a wife or a mother when you take office. I'm not going to say any more because UKM is hugely right wing (in general).


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

kniterider said:


> As the son of a coal miner and I can only have one opinion and that's good riddance.


As a miner I fcukin hated the old bitch as did hundreds of thousands of other working class people.


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Or you could say her achievements in her time in office were.

Ended Socialism in Britain. She privatized state-owned industries and allowed tenants in council houses the right to buy their homes. Margaret Thatcher privatized industries by selling shares and millions of Britons became the first in their family to own stock in a company.

Revitalized the British economy. Margaret Thatcher cut taxes and regulation quite far. When she became prime minister in 1979, the top tax rate was 98%; the bottom rate was 65%. However much or little you earned, you were paying most of your money in taxes. When Margaret Thatcher left office in 1990, the top tax rate was only 40% and the bottom tax rate was 25%. This allowed people to keep more of their own money and buy things. By cutting regulation, Margaret Thatcher allowed business to thrive in Britain.

Cut the power of the trade unions. Margaret Thatcher introduced legislation to mandate secret ballots among union members before having a strike and banning secondary picketing. The number of strikes went way down. Also, by defeating strikes such as the Miners' Strike and the steel strike, Margaret Thatcher sent a message loud and clear that striking won't work anymore.

Radically changed British society. Margaret Thatcher's policies of free enterprise, privatization, home ownership and less government allowed millions of Britons to move up in society. As a result, the class system was weakened, more people moved into the middle class and upward mobility became the 'in' thing.

Won the Falklands War. When Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands in 1982, Margaret Thatcher sent a large navy task force down to retake those islands. Britain won the Falklands War and it was Britain's first military victory since 1945. The Falklands Victory forever broke the blue feeling Britain had been in since the end of World War II and made Britain feel proud, strong and confident again.

Through her friend, President Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher won the Cold War. President Reagan would not have been President Reagan if it was not for Margaret Thatcher. She became Prime Minister before Reagan was elected president and her example made it possible for Reagan to be elected. As president, Reagan often looked to her for guidance and leadership in waging the Cold War.

Created the world we live in today. The fact that capitalism and democracy are seen as the best and only viable forms of political economy is all because of Margaret Thatcher. Other countries around the world followed her example.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

McGuire86 said:


> Last decent Prime Minister we've had. R.I.P.


Yeah like fcuk she was, she was full of cover ups.

Before anyone mentions the Falklands don't believe all the perceived 'wisdom' regarding the Falklands which was virtually wholly owned by the Coalite Group of Bolsover. My sister worked for them and I have a collection of documents and books that belonged to my sister about the conflict and the background to it. Particularly valued are the signed books written by Tam Dalyell about the war.

Thatcher's real motivation behind the war was very different. It was the defence of Britain's prestige as an imperialist power and its geo-political interests. It was the natural resources of the region, in particular oil, however, which was there from the start-as was the oil lobby. In fact oil reserves had been found between the Falklands and Argentina four years earlier and this was emerging as a potential game changer in the region.

It was no accident, therefore, that most of the Falklands was already owned by an energy company, part of the Coalite Group of Bolsover. With an eye to the potential energy they had taken over the Falkland Islands Company in 1973 (at the time of the Middle East oil crisis) and the first oil was found by Shell, working with them, a few years later.

In fact the Falkland Islands were a company operation from top to bottom. Coalite owned 50% of all Falklands land outright and another 25% though interlinked directorships. They also owned all the shops, most of the houses, the bank, and the shipping line which linked the Islands with Britain. Most people on the Islands worked for them and lived in tied cottages supplied by them.

The Falkland Islands Company was hived off when it was asset stripped before the group's problems led to its liquidation.

More to the Falklands than meets the eye.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Nidge said:


> Which was caused by Thatcher when she took away all manufacturing and gave the banks a free reign making the UK a service economy. Don't forget she Privatised the banking system.


This. People really need to do some research. Just because the GLOBAL financial crisis happened while Labour were in power doesn't mean it was Labour's fault. Thatcher lifted all the regulations on the city, making her friends very very rich. She was warned at the time it would lead to meltdown and went ahead anyway. What luck the Tories got back in during the recession so they could cut the deficit with money from the poorest in society. What's even better luck is that you all thank them for it because they're "not Brown or Blair".


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2013)

dsldude said:


> Copied and pasted shizzle from some pro thatcher website.


If you believe that, then you are totally deluded.

And it still makes me laugh today that people blame labour for the economic problems, when it was the banks that screwed everyone over and the government tried to rescue the situation by borrowing to bail them out.

And if borrowing is not the answer, then why is the current government still borrowing , and more than labour had in the same time span ? The deficeit isn't reducing, it's growing. All these "cuts" were put in place because that's what tories do, they cut everything to feed the big wigs , hence the 45p tax cut for the millionaires. How many tax cuts did the lesser classes get ? None.

/case rested m'laud.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

dsldude said:


> Or you could say her achievements in her time in office were.
> 
> Ended Socialism in Britain. She privatized state-owned industries and allowed tenants in council houses the right to buy their homes. Margaret Thatcher privatized industries by selling shares and millions of Britons became the first in their family to own stock in a company.
> 
> ...


And now of people can't get housing because the Councils haven't any empty, we have to build them again now.

As for the Falklands it's all bollox read my post.

As for Reagan he was losing the plot with his Star Wars eyes in the sky which didn't get off the drawing board.

She put millions out of work and nearly killed the country when the banking system which she privatised went belly up a few years ago. Labour had to bail them out.


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## Irishtoonfan (Feb 14, 2013)

Here's a few things (to name a few) that Maggie Thatcher was responsible for:

- Internment without trial

- Shoot to kill policy

- Attempting to destroy Trade Unions and brutalising England's miners while on strike

- Supporting Dictators such as Pinochet and Pol Pot who murdered millions

- Allowing ten men (one an MP, one a TD) to die on hunger strike

-Fail to act on Hillsborough allowing 96 innocent people to go years without justice

- Referred to Mandela as a terrorist and feminism as a poison

As someone who has studied human rights and believes vehemently against capital punishment and supports the right to life of everyone. I take huge rejoice in the fact she's gone (like I would with the likes of Hitler, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein and anyone who brutalises our human rights) and while, she had a family, her victims did too and I see no reason why there is no joy in people that we are rid of a massive destructing force in our civilisation. I'm happy and I hope you are too


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

This is how to celebrate, from an area of heavy industry which was decimated by the old bitch Thatcher and her hangers on.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-dead-video-cheering-1818888


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## marc_muscle (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm a bit sad she has died. I know people like to criticise but she was a strong women and she created lots of change.

Women got more equal pay! People could buy there council houses. She helped appease the IRA and my god they almost blew we up in a hotel!

RIP x


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

So now Thatcher is being compared to Hitler. What a fcuking over reaction its an absolute disgrace. I don't know what is wrong with people's outlook on the world they need to go back to church or something. Everything taken completely out of proportion. Hitler was bad but fcuking NO ONE deserves to be compared to her


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## marc_muscle (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't think thatcher ruined the country. I think immigration has!

Also we have had 20 years to turn around what that her did, bit late to keep blaming her now.

However I am annoid that the everage person has no hope of buying there own home at the moment unless mummy and daddy help!


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Nidge said:


> And now of people can't get housing because the Councils haven't any empty, we have to build them again now.
> 
> As for the Falklands it's all bollox read my post.
> 
> ...


Why did labour not stop the right to buy scheme then and build more council houses?.

Your theory on why people were on the Falklands is a mute point imho even if true, the islands have been British since 1833, as long as they remain British they should be defended as such.

Starwars was a good idea in theroy, protect your country from nuclear attack from space and above, hard to implement yes but abit harsh to say he was losing the plot for surjesting it, it was the coldwar after all.

Of course it was sad that many people lost jobs when the coal mines closed but if they where really that viable and profitable why didnt more of them continue under private ownership?.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Attempting to destroy Trade Unions


that was one of the best things she ever did


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


The Mrs told me today expecting some kind of tearful speech.. I replied with "what that old curly haired cnut? Good"

I'm not normsly that cold but she really was a curly haired old cnut.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

marc_muscle said:


> I'm a bit sad she has died. I know people like to criticise but she was a strong women and she created lots of change.
> 
> Women got more equal pay! People could buy there council houses. She helped appease the IRA and my god they almost blew we up in a hotel!
> 
> RIP x


What in the frig are you doing back here???


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

marc_muscle said:


> I don't think thatcher ruined the country. I think immigration has!
> 
> Also we have had 20 years to turn around what that her did, bit late to keep blaming her now.
> 
> However I am annoid that the everage person has no hope of buying there own home at the moment unless mummy and daddy help!


How the hell has immigration ruined the country???


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Saved it fcukin saved it, she split the fcukin place into three, the rich, the poor the working man and the unemployed. Don't give me that, she killed this country "DEAD". She whored China to bits and now we have Chinese items in our homes when before it was Phillips, Hoover etc etc.


Good strong british names those? That shows some ignorance right there Dutch and American, any more nonsense to come out with?


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> that was one of the best things she ever did


Couldn't agree more, idiots that think otherwise clearly don't remember labours 3 day weeks when the unions ran the country and held it to ransom. I know steel workers who admit to spending more time warming their hands over braziers than working.

Typical unbalanced uneducated left wing propaganda mixed with some ridiculous right wing tripe too. How the fvck can anybody blame immigration!!!

Aghhhh I'm ignoring this thread, too much f'ing nonsense.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Kimball said:


> Good strong british names those? That shows some ignorance right there


unless Holland and America are still British


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

A mate of mine posted this link http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/people-with-no-idea-who-thatcher-was-ecstatic-that-shes-dead-2013040865066 whats with students who are about 20 saying they hate Thatcher, surely if they think their life is so bad then blame the people in power when they actually existed, Some lad about that age said on Sky News he was glad she was dead looked a right muppet.


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## Freeby0 (Oct 5, 2012)

My dad came back from tesco and shouted champagne!!! ...I said wtf are you on? He said ive got champagne...I said why? He said cause the evil little cretin is finally dead! I hope her last breath was painful........Even his mum and relatives he hasnt spoke to for a while and old friends from newcastle have been phoning...just goes to show how hated she was up north. She didnt have any power in my lifetime so i couldnt care really...Anyone with as much hatred out for her as she had must have ****ed somone off bigtime. I dont think she deserves to have somone take a sh1t on her grave though, but then again as i said i was alive in her reign. Anyone would have though hitler had come back and died again!


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

so theres public outcry when a few idiots celebrate the deaths of UK soldiers, but its ok to have street partys celebrating the death of a woman who used to be prime minister of this country :confused1:


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## majormuscle (Oct 24, 2009)

One things for sure we didn't have a 24 year back log of immigrants in Britain under her rein neither was half u soft cnuts moaning about the polish taking your jobs or some fcuking muslim with a hook for a hand allowed to stay in this country after being a proven terrorist/extremist , she may of not got everything right but she got things done which is more than we can say for any of the pm's since


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

Its along time coming, sitting here having a few cold ones chuffed to fcuk with todays news. I was suppose to be of the drink but seeing as we got this news today, it would be ashame not to. Theres parties happening now in liverpool,west and north belfast,derry, tyrone, glasgow and in other places in the uk. One right bastard thisi one was and the world will be a better place without her.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=130530687137023


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

"Tramp the Dirt Down"

The old saw that one shouldn't speak ill of the recently dead cannot possibly apply to controversial figures in public life. It certainly didn't apply to President Hugo Chavez who predeceased Margaret Thatcher amidst a blizzard of abuse.

The main reason it must not preclude entering the lists amidst a wave of hagiographic sycophantic tosh of the kind that has engulfed Britain these last hours is that otherwise the hagiographers will have the field to themselves.

Every controversial divisive deadly thing that Thatcher did will be placed in soft focus, bathed in a rose-coloured light, and provide a first draft of history that will be, simply, wrong.

As is now well-known, I refused to do that today on the demise of a wicked woman who tore apart what remained good about my country, and set an agenda which has been followed, more or less, by all of her successors. I certainly wasn't prepared to leave the obituaries to those who profited from her rule or those who have aped her ever since.

So here is my own memory of Thatcher and what she did in her time on this earth.

On one of my first political demonstrations - against the Conservative government of Edward Heath (1970-74) the slogan of the day was "Margaret Thatcher- Milk snatcher". It was the first but not the last time I spat out her name in distaste.

Before Thatcher, every primary school pupil received 1/3 of a pint of milk every morning. For some it was the difference between breakfast and no breakfast. I was sometimes one of those. I grew up in a brief period of social democracy in Britain, being dosed by the state with free cod-liver oil, orange juice and malt to build up my strength. Having been born in a slum tenement into a one-room attic in an Irish immigrant area, I needed all of that and more. And like millions I got it, until Thatcher took it away.

She became the Conservative leader after Heath's two electoral defeats in 1974 and his subsequent resignation.

She was a new type of Tory leader, entirely lacking in anything resembling "noblesse oblige". She was nasty, brutish and short of the class previously thought obligatory in Britain amongst leaders of the ruling elite. She was vulgar, money-worshipping, and blasphemous. She believed the important part of the Biblical story of the "Good Samaritan" was not that he refused to pass by the suffering on the other side of the road but that he had "loadsamoney".

In the infamous sermon on the Mound in Edinburgh addressing the Church of Scotland she opined that there was "no such thing as society"&#8230;"only individuals"

As the Labour leader Neil Kinnock, in one of his better efforts, retorted: "No such thing as society? Only individuals? No such thing as honouring other people's parents? No such thing as cherishing other people's children? No such thing as us and always? Just ME and NOW? ME and NOW?"

She was the living embodiment of Marx's prediction that under capitalism "all that is solid will melt into air&#8230; all that is sacred will be profaned"

Upon her election as prime minister (with just 40% of the vote, her position ensured by the treacherous defection from the Labour cause of the rats now squirming on the Liberal-Democrat ship) she set about "transforming" Britain allright. She privatised Britain's key industries, enriching her friends, and robbing the public of their birthright. When she took over "Financial Services" represented 3% of the British economy; when she left office it was 40%.

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She destroyed the coal industry, the steel, car, bus and motor-cycle manufacturing, truck and bus-making, ship-building and print-industry, the railway workshops&#8230; she destroyed more than a third of Britain's manufacturing capacity, significantly more than Hitler's Luftwaffe ever achieved.

She did this not just because she prefered the spivs and gamblers in the city -they were her kind of people. But because above all, she hated trades unionism, and was determined to destroy it.

I was a leading member of the Scottish Labour Party at the time she came into office, and a full-time Labour organiser. Scotland was to become an industrial wasteland in the first years of her rule.

I was also, from 1973, a member of the then Transport and General Workers Union, one of her key targets - especially our Docks section.

Importantly, for me, I was an honorary member of the National Union of Mineworkers too.

In all of these capacities I was a front-line short-sword fighter in the rearguard action against Thatcherism.

I fought her at Bathgate, at Linwood, when she was sacking the automotive industry. I fought her at Wapping - every Saturday night when she destroyed the Print workers on behalf of her friend, the organised crime firm owner, Rupert Murdoch. I fought every day of the Miners strike when she destroyed the Miners Union and the communities they represented. I fought her at Timex in Dundee at Massey Ferguson in Kilmarnock, and at the aluminium smelter in Invergordon.

I fought against her poll tax - imposed first in Scotland - as a refusenik of the most iniquitous tax in Britain since mediaeval times, the tax which ended in flames - literally - whilst I was on the platform at Trafalgar Square. And which finally produced her political demise.

And I toured - as a political activist - the desolation in Britain's post-industrial distressed areas which she left behind. The City of London - deregulated by her - boomed whilst the coalfields and steel areas sank into penury. I saw the rusted factories the flooded mines the idle shipyards and the devilish results of millions of newly and enforced idle hands.

I faced her in parliament from 1987 as well, on these and other issues.

You see it wasn't just Britain that Thatcher made bleed.

Her withdrawal of political status from Irish republican prisoners and her brutal, securocratic, militarisation of the situation in the north led to much additional suffering in Ireland.

State collusion in the murder of Catholics became endemic during her rule. And ten young men were starved to death for the restoration of political status, before our eyes in her dungeons. She finally died on the anniversary of their leader, Bobby Sands, being elected to parliament as he lay on his death-bed.

During the Falklands War, she sent hundreds of young Argentinian conscripts to a watery grave when she shot the Argentine warship the Belgrano in the back - as it was speeding away from the conflict. She mercilessly exploited the sacrifice of them, and our own soldiers sailors and airmen, to save her own political skin. A lot of brave men had to leave their guts on Goose Green to keep Thatcher in power.

She pushed her alter ego - the semi-imbecilic US president Ronald Reagan - into Cold War fanaticism and burgeoning expenditure on more and more terrifying weapons - many of them stationed on our soil.

She pushed his successor George Bush Sen into the first Iraq War.

I was there, I saw her lips move, when she described Nelson Mandela as a "common terrorist".

She continued to recognise the genocidal and deposed Pol Pot regime in Cambodia - insisting that Pol Pot was the real and recognised leader of the Cambodians, even as they counted his victims in millions.

And she was the author of the policy of military, political, diplomatic and media support of the Afghan obscurantists who became the Taliban and Al Qaeda. She even produced them on the platform of the Tory Party conference, hailing them as "freedom-fighters".

I was one of the last men standing in parliament opposing this immoral policy of "my enemy's enemy is my friend".

On the eve of the triumph of these "freedom Fighters" I told Thatcher to her face; "You have opened the gates for the barbarians&#8230;.and a long dark night will now descend upon the people of Afghanistan". I never said a truer word.

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I hated Margaret Thatcher for what seems like all my life. I hated her more than I hated anyone - until the mass murderer Tony Blair came along.

It would have been utter hypocrisy for me to have remained silent about her crimes today whilst the political class - including New Labour - poured honeyed words, lies actually, over her blood-spattered record.

I could not do it. I believe I spoke for millions. The wicked witch is dead. Tramp the dirt down.

George Galloway MP

House of Commons

London


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## NO1Champ (Feb 23, 2013)

marc_muscle said:


> I don't think thatcher ruined the country. I think immigration has!
> 
> Also we have had 20 years to turn around what that her did, bit late to keep blaming her now.
> 
> However I am annoid that the everage person has no hope of buying there own home at the moment unless mummy and daddy help!


How has immigration ruined this country? Because these guys will work harder than some lazy white guy for half the wage and do a better job?

Housing always will be a problem when you live in a small country with a big population, this is common around the world with where space is of a shortage. This is a great time to buy, the bubble has burst and property is cheaper than ever. The banks are still lending and mortgage rates are at the lowest since I can remember.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

dsldude said:


> A mate of mine posted this link http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/people-with-no-idea-who-thatcher-was-ecstatic-that-shes-dead-2013040865066 whats with students who are about 20 saying they hate Thatcher, surely if they think their life is so bad then blame the people in power when they actually existed, Some lad about that age said on Sky News he was glad she was dead looked a right muppet.


The daily mash is satirical and Thatchers policies still have resounding effects, especially in the North. To say that young people have no right to detest Thatcher is ignorant.


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Tasty said:


> The daily mash is satirical and Thatchers policies still have resounding effects, especially in the North. To say that young people have no right to detest Thatcher is ignorant.


Never said they have no right to think/feel what they like, but its bandwagon jumping of the highest order, if they are not happy with their life or society they should look closer to home, funny how these anti establishment folk are still happy to take benefits that the rest of the working folk pay for.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

Ian_Montrose said:


> Power cuts were a routine occurrence when I were a lad in the seventies. We had coal then.


That was because of the miners strike, the one that brought down the Tory government.


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

welbeck said:


> That was because of the miners strike, the one that brought down the Tory government.


Yep the one when the Miner's union demanded a 43% pay rise, at a time when the Tories were offering around 7-8%... Nowadays we count our-selfs lucky to get a couple of percent.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

dsldude said:


> Yep the one when the Miner's union demanded a 43% pay rise, at a time when the Tories were offering around 7-8%... Nowadays we count our-selfs lucky to get a couple of percent.


I was 7 then and my father was a miner, they weren't well paid then and deserved and got a realistic pay rise doing a horrible, dirty incredibly dangerous job.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

Mr_Socko said:


> The mines were making a loss. These were loss making industries which were for the most part owned by the tax payer and were subsequently becoming a drain on taxes, so yes cuts had to be made and people lost their jobs. She didn't 'close down the mines', she simply stopped making everyone else subside them. In which other developed countries are the heavy industries still going as strong as they were in the seventies? Oh, of course Thatcher is probably responsible for their decline too...


They shut profit making pits too. Thatcher promised the UDM that their pits would be safe if they supported her during the strike then closed their pits too.

Mining was a nationalised industry so, for example if the industry lost £100 million a year that would work out at £100 per miner for the one million people that worked in the industry, how much tax would them one million miners pay between then? If they paid £1000 each that would be a profit of £900 million for the country but it would be considerably more than that, billions as opposed to putting a million miners on the dole.


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

welbeck said:


> I was 7 then and my father was a miner, they weren't well paid then and deserved and got a realistic pay rise doing a horrible, dirty incredibly dangerous job.


No doubt the miners worked hard, but by this time the Coal industry was already starting to decline and the power and demands of the unions, alongside the availability of cheaper coal from overseas, made it a easy decision for Thatchers government to privatize UK mines.. My view is the bigger failing of all governments since then is not to invest enough in other UK industry in these ex mining areas.


----------



## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

dsldude said:


> But we do still have coal we import it for a allot less than it cost to run UK coal mines and the country being held to ransom by their unions, but longterm coal is becoming obsolete do you know anyone who still uses it to heat their home because I dont, and coal fired power-stations are closing, Coal did once play a major part in our lives but its becoming less so with ever year that passes.


I live in a mining village so yes I do know people that still heat with coal, we've still got to generate electricity somehow, but then again we just buy it from France, our gas from Russia and our coal from all over from countries that subsidize their coal industry. Britain is no longer self sufficient in power generation, that's a terrible situation to be in and it will only get worse.


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## bigtoe900 (Jul 26, 2012)

Thats one lady that will live a long time in the history books. RIP maggie


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

dsldude said:


> Never said they have no right to think/feel what they like, but its bandwagon jumping of the highest order, if they are not happy with their life or society they should look closer to home, funny how these anti establishment folk are still happy to take benefits that the rest of the working folk pay for.


Firstly, how did you not get the fact that article wasn't serious?

Also, read the second part of my post again, carefully. People have a right to think or feel what they like, unless other people feel the same - and then it's bandwagon jumping? What if you're the son of a miner? What if you've read enough to see that Thatcher and her cronies laid the foundations for the path of financial crisis, homogenisation and individualism?

I didn't live through the war but I find Hitler disgusting. Jimmy Saville was dead before I knew he was a paedophile and I still detest him. You don't need to suffer through something to have an opinion on it.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

MR RIGSBY said:


> The country was utterly ****ed when Thatcher was elected, she saved it from being written off completely. Hence the reason she was elected 3 times in a row.
> 
> Does anyone genuinely think that if the mines were still open, young British men would be going down them now? Would they ****.


She was elected 3 times because the SDP split the labour vote. When I left school in '83 I became an engineer and worked in a local factory as a fitter, the production line were run exclusively by women, 10 years later they were run almost exclusively by young men who no doubt would have worked in the coal industry had there been one. Of course young people would work down the mines now, do you honestly think people would rather work for minimum wage or £50k+ a year? I know which I'd choose.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

dsldude said:


> My view is the bigger failing of all governments since then is not to invest enough in other UK industry in these ex mining areas.


What about the government of the time, the ones that decimated the area originally?


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

miners seem to hate - was mining a well paid job back in the day ??? or were they destitute ??? i remember a friends dad retiring at 45 !! working class boy frrom a working class background and non manager miner ??


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## dsldude (Sep 11, 2008)

Tasty said:


> Firstly, how did you not get the fact that article wasn't serious?
> 
> Also, read the second part of my post again, carefully. People have a right to think or feel what they like, unless other people feel the same - and then it's bandwagon jumping? What if you're the son of a miner? What if you've read enough to see that Thatcher and her cronies laid the foundations for the path of financial crisis, homogenisation and individualism?
> 
> I didn't live through the war but I find Hitler disgusting. Jimmy Saville was dead before I knew he was a paedophile and I still detest him. You don't need to suffer through something to have an opinion on it.


The article in question may well be satire but there are many young people saying things like that just switch the news on, but come off it do you really think most of these kids even know anything about thatcher?, I dont think so, they are simply looking for someone to blame other than themselves for the situation they are in, The same sort of people who rioted and smashed up parts of the UK the year before last.

I will listen to anyone with different views if they can tell me genuinely why they actually believe them, but now your getting silly talking about Saville and Hitler in a thread about a dead prime minister thats me out.


----------



## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)




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## brandon91 (Jul 4, 2011)

no personal opinion since i wasnt around when she ran the country but when you actually read into it she did some good and she did some bad like most politicians, atleast she was open about it. seen this status about her


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

When I realised Margaret Thatcher was dead, I did a double fist pump and shouted, "****ing brilliant!"

Everyone around me was disgusted, and looking back, I suppose it was out of order.

Especially as I was the first paramedic at the scene. :thumb:


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

Kimball said:


> Good strong british names those? That shows some ignorance right there Dutch and American, any more nonsense to come out with?


English based employing English workers is what I meant until it was to expensive to manufacture in this country due to Thatcher getting into bed with the ******.


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## marc_muscle (Nov 15, 2012)

Sorry..... Wasn't the trade unions holding the country to ransoms asking for 36% pay increases above inflation.

The county was a mess before thatcher stepped in. Rubbish never collected. Trade unions pulling the shots. We lost all credibility to the world really.


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

welbeck said:


> She was elected 3 times because the SDP split the labour vote. When I left school in '83 I became an engineer and worked in a local factory as a fitter, the production line were run exclusively by women, 10 years later they were run almost exclusively by young men who no doubt would have worked in the coal industry had there been one. Of course young people would work down the mines now, do you honestly think people would rather work for minimum wage or £50k+ a year? I know which I'd choose.


Where does 50k come into it? The mines were running at a loss for years, the tax payer was propping them up. If they were still open you wouldn't be getting 50k to work in them.

My father worked in the mines as did both grandfathers they all ****ing hated it. My dad said he would have been devastated if either of his sons had to work down them. People look back on those times with too much nostalgia. The country was in a right mess well before the thatcher years.

I'm solid working class from the North East of England. I should supposedly have hated Thatcher, but I didn't. The times were changing back then and have no relation to how the world is now. If Thatcher was never in power the mines would still have closed eventually, China would still have taken over the manufacture of pretty much everything and the global banking fiasco would still have happened.


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Where does 50k come into it? The mines were running at a loss for years, the tax payer was propping them up. If they were still open you wouldn't be getting 50k to work in them.
> 
> My father worked in the mines as did both grandfathers they all ****ing hated it. My dad said he would have been devastated if either of his sons had to work down them. People look back on those times with too much nostalgia. The country was in a right mess well before the thatcher years.
> 
> I'm solid working class from the North East of England. I should supposedly have hated Thatcher, but I didn't. The times were changing back then and have no relation to how the world is now. If Thatcher was never in power the mines would still have closed eventually, China would still have taken over the manufacture of pretty much everything and the global banking fiasco would still have happened.


I know miners that are on more than that now regularly bringing home £1800 a week. People seem to forget that it was a nationalised industry so all the tax that was paid went back to the employer. If they lost a billion pounds a year that would only work out at £1000 per miner. how much tax do you think they paid? Once they were closed all the revenue was lost and the dole then had to pay out billions to cover it. Money was wasted to make it look like the pits were running at a loss, a friend of mine worked on development at I think Harworth, he told me how they spent millions setting up 2 new coal faces then abandoned them the week before they due to cut coal that made the pit show a massive loss and it was closed due to this. How many other pits did this happen to?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

I wonder where she will be buried? i hope its a public graveyard somewhere..im sure alot of people

who "were around back then" will want to go and pay there respects on here grave


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Where does 50k come into it? The mines were running at a loss for years, the tax payer was propping them up. If they were still open you wouldn't be getting 50k to work in them.
> 
> My father worked in the mines as did both grandfathers they all ****ing hated it. My dad said he would have been devastated if either of his sons had to work down them. People look back on those times with too much nostalgia. The country was in a right mess well before the thatcher years.
> 
> I'm solid working class from the North East of England. I should supposedly have hated Thatcher, but I didn't. The times were changing back then and have no relation to how the world is now. If Thatcher was never in power the mines would still have closed eventually, China would still have taken over the manufacture of pretty much everything and the global banking fiasco would still have happened.


^ This ^

Oil was already growing in use before Thatcher, starting to replace coal. It was a natural progression that would have happened anyway. You're very much living in an emotional and hate-filled (and somewhat misguided) past if you believe it would still be thriving today.

Mining jobs were lost in the late 50s and early 60s and believe it or not, these job losses were even greater than any losses during Thatcher's power. So when Thatcher took over, it was already very bleak. Are we also forgetting (or just refusing to acknowledge) the fact that Thatcher's government pumped millions into this industry AND even went as far as to ban companies from bringing it in from abroad to try to salvage this industry, before any larger changes were made....

Thatcher didn't just come to power and start closing everything down like some on here would have you believe. These industries were long dead by the time she came to power and were costing the British taxpayer too much money.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

welbeck said:


> I know miners that are on more than that now regularly bringing home £1800 a week. People seem to forget that it was a nationalised industry so all the tax that was paid went back to the employer. If they lost a billion pounds a year that would only work out at £1000 per miner. how much tax do you think they paid? Once they were closed all the revenue was lost and the dole then had to pay out billions to cover it. Money was wasted to make it look like the pits were running at a loss, a friend of mine worked on development at I think Harworth, he told me how they spent millions setting up 2 new coal faces then abandoned them the week before they due to cut coal that made the pit show a massive loss and it was closed due to this. How many other pits did this happen to?


The one I worked at had millions spent on it when they went into a new seam of coal, we got the best machinery to support the roof and the dogs bollox in cutting machines, road headers like this one at a cost of millions, 

Two weeks later when everything was in place ready to cut coal and break records the pit closure programme was started by the Tories.

This happend at most coal mines, the machinery was left underground and the pits sealed off.


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Mr_Socko said:


> There must be something in the air in that 5 mile radius that creates morons then.


Thanks, I live in that radius!

Again, in the community we live in she's a hated lady. My dad worked in the mining industry, I was born in 84.

I blame her for my lack of size with the small portions I was fed pmsl


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

Just seen a bunch of people on TV all like 'EY UP YEAAA WE CARNT STAND THAT THATCHER WOT CLOSED DOWN AR MINES" and have clearly just been educated from old Barry down their local pub, who lost his job when Thatcher was in power and has no concept of economics or politics and can't see past his own kitchen table.


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## [email protected] (Dec 9, 2012)




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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

Thatcher

- pretty much squashed the cold war= good

- massively helped and shaped our ecconomy by privatising everything and increasing competion etc

-Crushed Unions= good, we would have ended up like france with strikes all the time and unions running the country as opposed to parliment

-got us a massive rebate of the EU

-stuck to her gunss, she was indeed an iron lady powerfull lady.

As mentioned before she is marmite, i liked and respected her though. RIP


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## Ballin (Aug 24, 2011)

Saw this and it made me laugh...especially cos it is true!


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Nidge said:


> The one I worked at had millions spent on it when they went into a new seam of coal, we got the best machinery to support the roof and the dogs bollox in cutting machines, road headers like this one at a cost of millions,
> View attachment 117046
> 
> 
> ...


I don't get what the relevance is of this? I'm not having a dig, but nearly every company that goes bust is still purchasing stock up until the moment it goes into receivership. I know this is different but the principals of business and money making are the same. Therefore it is entirely possibly, that these coal faces were set up as a last ditch attempt to make some money by a finance manager/purchase manager in denial, rather than as a way to waste money.

I was too young to remember her in office but one thing I have noticed is that a majority of the North dislike her, while a majority of the South seem to love her. Most of the armed forces seem to love her purely based on the fact that she told the 22 lads not to bring any embassy siege terrorists out alive and the fact that she didn't pussy foot around with the Falklands. Just my observation. Personally I'm not fvssed either way. What's done is done and cannot be changed, so why bother getting in a hissy fit over it.


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## Ballin (Aug 24, 2011)

For the record I was born in '87 inm South London and as such cannot really comment on what it was like to be living under that government.

What I don't like is the hypocricy of some of the posts on here.

I for one don't expect how people can get paid £50k per yer and expect the industry to remain competitive with countries that have a population in excess of 1 billion people who won't take a fraction of this wage. I think the unions effectively priced themselves out of the market.

Looking in today's times- I guess the obvious industry to compare this against is the London Underground drivers. They demand 50k a year for sitting in a seat pushing a button as well as crazy other incentives like a bonus for working over the Olympics?! Madness...is it any wonder they are set to be replaced by an automated system? Had they not been so greedy I really feel that to implement this kind of system would have not been cost effective but I feel now the Underground has been left with little choice but to phase out these greedy people.

Bob Crow- typical champagne socialist....representing "the people" but getting paid over £100k a year....don't make me laugh!


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

she's only been in hell for 5 mins, and she's shut down five furnaces already.


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

alan1971 said:


> she's only been in hell for 5 mins, and she's shut down five furnaces already.


You're a bit late to the party ain't ya, already been done in this thread

Edit = sorry ashcrappers was 3 furnaces so a little variation :tongue:


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## alan1971 (Mar 30, 2012)

yeh though it might of, just was'nt prepared to read through 13 pages .lol


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

Nidge said:


> Fcukk her I hope the bitch rots in hell for what she did to this country.


depending which job you had during her time that comment could be utter bollocks.

the Unions, miners and car makers, brought the country to its knees with demands for stupid wage increases then striking when they didnt get what they wanted. Greedy bastards.

Maggie came in and took the Unions on to sort this country out. She had the bollocks to stand upto the Unions and got respect from average joe that went out each day to earn an honest crust from a honest days work.

Miners and Unions milked this country dry. Feck'um!

RIP Maggie


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## Ballin (Aug 24, 2011)

Just been reading about the "party" in Brixton near where I live. Disgusting. One thing to celebrate the death of a person but another to use it as an excuse to loot a charity shop and throw bottles at police. Makes me laugh how the people partying are

a) too young to remember or know like myself

B) jobless

Vile pigs...hope they get a good kicking!


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Depressing thread.

Ok if you felt really hard done to when she was in power, celebrate when she was voted out 20 odd years ago, don't 'open the champagne' because a 87 year old woman has died.

She was the ELECTED leader of the country, and the longest serving PM of the 20th century, so she can't have been hated by everyone.

Actively celebrating the death of anyone is very poor form and certainly not a 'British' trait.


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

marc_muscle said:


> I'm a bit sad she has died. I know people like to criticise but she was a strong women and she created lots of change.
> 
> Women got more equal pay! People could buy there council houses. She helped appease the IRA and my god they almost blew we up in a hotel!
> 
> RIP x


Do you know what the word appease means? yes but didn't allow the money gathered to build new ones so there now is a shortage and affordable social housing which has doubled in rent in the last ten years, and is now being propped up by the tax payers, she was a politician, and claimed she won back the Falkland's, I remember it was the armed forces, who are used when politicians fail!


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/the-mash-guide-to-not-talking-about-thatcher-2013040965132


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

Zola said:


> She took no **** and would never give in to terrorists. fair play.
> 
> if you got nothing good to say, best saying nothing.


TERRORISTS?

who like the argies, irish

this from a woman who supported apartheid in south africa and had friends like chilean dictator pinochet


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

The Vegetarian said:


> I think it was thirty years ago when the Brighton bombing incident happened. Are you referring to this?


she did alot of damage in the north of ireland she prolonged the war by ten yrs at least by not not letting prisoners were there own clothes, the amount of young ppl that were militarized by that decision was immense and lead to some of the worse years of the conflict

you have to understand that the brighton bomb wasnt an anti british act it was an act of defiance that the irish question needed to be addressed and finalised


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## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

lostwars said:


> TERRORISTS?
> 
> who like the argies, irish
> 
> this from a woman who supported apartheid in south africa and had friends like chilean dictator pinochet


Yep, terrorists like the IRA who were shooting and bombing their own, as well as anyone else in sight.

if you are killing innocent people with bombs and bullets you deserve jail like everyone else. If you call yourself a freedom fighter in the process its largely irrelevant.


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

lostwars said:


> she did alot of damage in the north of ireland she prolonged the war by ten yrs at least by not not letting prisoners were there own clothes, the amount of young ppl that were militarized by that decision was immense and lead to some of the worse years of the conflict
> 
> you have to understand that the brighton bomb wasnt an anti british act it was an act of defiance that the irish question needed to be addressed and finalised


Sorry I will never understand the killing of innocent people, especially when it seems that it was over the choice of what to wear.

And yes it was me who negged you, I am in total disbelief on how you can hold human life in such contempt.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

Zola said:


> Yep, terrorists like the IRA who were shooting and bombing their own, as well as anyone else in sight.
> 
> if you are killing innocent people with bombs and bullets you deserve jail like everyone else. If you call yourself a freedom fighter in the process its largely irrelevant.


i believe THEIR OWN you mean us irish? yes its unforunate that we had a conflict at all but if you know a small bit of history youll understand that this conflict was a british gerrymandering conflict fought on irish soil

if it wasnt for your interferance in irish matters we wouldnt have had to have the blood shed we did

did you ever ask your MP why there was a british military presence in ireland? how many irish have you gone on an internet site and mourned for because of the conflict? none id imagine but you could for lady thatcher i see

if the shoe was on the other foot a chara


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

Blinkey said:


> Sorry I will never understand the killing of innocent people, especially when it seems that it was over the choice of what to wear.
> 
> And yes it was me who negged you, I am in total disbelief on how you can hold human life in such contempt.


you negged me because we have a disagrement on an issue its a debate in a general discussion section

take you lady thatcher picture down of the wall a chara she was a souless auld fcuker


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

So it's come to negs......

Bloody internetz :lol:


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## Patsy (Mar 14, 2008)

R0BLET said:


> So it's come to negs......
> 
> Bloody internetz :lol:


Well ofcourse.... They are voting red for Labour! :lol:


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## welbeck (Jul 23, 2010)

Gary29 said:


> She was the ELECTED leader of the country, and the longest serving PM of the 20th century, so she can't have been hated by everyone.


She didn't get in by a majority only 40% of the electorate voted for her so she was hated by more than liked her


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## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

R0BLET said:


> So it's come to negs......
> 
> Bloody internetz :lol:


Its the vegetarian.. he has been driven made by the meat he is eating now


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

gummyp said:


> Its the vegetarian.. he has been driven made by the meat he is eating now


I bet he's on that creatine stuff too!!

:lol:


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

gummyp said:


> Its the vegetarian.. he has been driven made by the meat he is eating now


No mate I just see red when the death of an old woman brings pro terrorism posts. People were maned and disabled by the Brighton bombing


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## Asouf (Jul 10, 2010)

I got an email at work yesterday with the subject - Maggies dead

My first actual thoughts were..... " well thats an episode of The Simpsons that wont be as funny as usual "


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

lostwars said:


> i believe THEIR OWN you mean us irish? yes its unforunate that we had a conflict at all but if you know a small bit of history youll understand that this conflict was a british gerrymandering conflict fought on irish soil
> 
> if it wasnt for your interferance in irish matters we wouldnt have had to have the blood shed we did
> 
> ...


Hi

Being British, I was brought up to believe the standard line that the Irish Republican cause was a terrorist enterprise and that was all we really needed to know. I subsequently took a little time to look into the history and developed a great deal of sympathy for the Irish who really were treated abysmally by the British, right up to the very recent past. However, no matter what the cause, I don't believe any right-minded human being can condone terrorist attacks on civilians, nor indeed many of the tactics employed against the police and armed forces personnel. Also, it seems to me that it was sometimes hard to see the line between political motivation and more basic organised criminal enterprise, and that applies to paramilitary groups on both sides of the divide.

Regardless, let's hope those dark days are well behind us for they did nobody any good.


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## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)




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## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

Blinkey said:


> No mate I just see red when the death of an old woman brings pro terrorism posts. People were maned and disabled by the Brighton bombing


In all fairness, she can accused of pro terrorism herself. She backed the Taliban and has been accused of allowing military intelligence to pass information to loyalist death squads.


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## chris l (Mar 30, 2011)

gummyp said:


> In all fairness, she can accused of pro terrorism herself. She backed the Taliban and has been accused of allowing military intelligence to pass information to loyalist death squads.


She and the yanks backed the Taliban in an attempt to weaken and demoralise the Russian's during the Cold War, not sure if it worked but they did pullout, a little like what Iran is trying to do now the other way.


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## gycraig (Oct 5, 2008)

NO1Champ said:


> How has immigration ruined this country? Because these guys will work harder than some lazy white guy for half the wage and do a better job?
> 
> Housing always will be a problem when you live in a small country with a big population, this is common around the world with where space is of a shortage. This is a great time to buy, the bubble has burst and property is cheaper than ever. The banks are still lending and mortgage rates are at the lowest since I can remember.


Yep all us whites are lazy that's the problem.

There's 50 people applying for every Fking job at asda. 15 for toilet scrubbing jobs.

We have a minimum wage they shouldn't be Fking working for less


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100211373/do-the-swp-and-the-hard-left-hate-margaret-thatcher-for-same-reason-that-liverpool-fans-hate-sir-alex-ferguson/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

The annoying thing about most of the Thatcher slammers is they don't equivocate their criticisms of her policies to all the others that were involved.

Her support for Apartheid SA is the best example, plenty of people pull that out of the hat and wear it like its some sort of flag proving she was evil and bad; but they'd all be too pussy to call the Israeli's racists and Fascists for being best buddies with the Apartheid SA government and actually building nuclear and biochemical weapons with them.

At the end of the day Thatcher won the cold war with Reagan and set the economy on a top notch course that the Blair government jumped on and mismanaged and Brown caused to fail. The sad thing is people just don't get the 'long game' she was playing (and how successful she was), and constantly fall for the 'short game' made up of lies and fiction that largely characterized the recent labour government.


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

Tasty said:


> This. People really need to do some research. Just because the GLOBAL financial crisis happened while Labour were in power doesn't mean it was Labour's fault. Thatcher lifted all the regulations on the city, making her friends very very rich. She was warned at the time it would lead to meltdown and went ahead anyway. What luck the Tories got back in during the recession so they could cut the deficit with money from the poorest in society. What's even better luck is that you all thank them for it because they're "not Brown or Blair".


It was Labours fault. They took away the key banking laws that contributed significantly to the financial crisis, they even passed laws so that UK branches of American banks could do things that were illegal in America because they were so risky.

And then Labour actually bailed the banks out with ordinary people's money - we aren't in a recession because the global economy collapsed, we are in a recession because *the labour government decided to spent our (taxpayers) money propping a broken economy up*.

Deregulation under Thatcher may well have allowed banks to build up a false economy (creating fake money by betting on and creating derivatives). But the bailout was worse, because it took the taxpayers REAL money to preserve the value of the FAKE money.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Blinkey said:


> No mate I just see red when the death of an old woman brings pro terrorism posts. People were maned and disabled by the Brighton bombing


you havent a clue about the north of ireland so dont comment on it, you aware thatchers shoot to kill policies led to countles deaths of innocent catholics, including a 12year old girl...and regardless this is a UK site with most members who are English, so wont like this, but the IRA, where freedom fighters, so i suggest you go read on their beginings before you label them all terroists


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## Cythraul (Oct 5, 2011)

barsnack said:


> you havent a clue about the north of ireland so dont comment on it, you aware thatchers shoot to kill policies led to countles deaths of innocent catholics, including a 12year old girl...and regardless this is a UK site with most members who are English, so wont like this, but the IRA, where freedom fighters, so i suggest you go read on their beginings before you label them all terroists


Are you fcking serious?


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

Bobby Sands 27

Margaret Thatcher 87

#winning


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cub said:


> Bobby Sands 27
> 
> Margaret Thatcher 87
> 
> #winning


how many people would have the courage to die for their beliefs b hunger strike, really no clue


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Cythraul said:


> Are you fcking serious?


yep, catholics were being slaughtered and burnt out of their home in their thousands, so the pira were formed to protect catholic areas (battle of bombay street) is a good place to read...not disputing they done some regretable acts, but you saying they have done this on the scale of the british or american armies etc etc


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah bombing people who were paying their respects on Remembrance Day. Hardly noble freedom fighters.

The majority of the people in Northern Ireland didn't want to unite with the Republic so how can they be freedom fighters? It was futile and needless.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

Cythraul said:


> Are you fcking serious?


i can fully understand why ppl could view the IRA as ruthless,but the IRA wasnt operating on any level that could have brought about political change until the years 68/69

after ireland fought the war of independance with britain, an ALL ireland vote returned a vote of 76% wanted the country to remain united, but the british ignored this and took six counties which had a higher amount of ppl with pro british leanings, now these ppl where settlers of scottish asscent and through threats of violence and intimidation secured a land that would shed alot of blood

i often wondered why the british goverment a bastion of civil rights would allow the unionists in the north of ireland to behave like common scumbags,you were employed housed etc on your religion,and of course you couldnt vote if you were cathoilc

when ordinary nationalists decided this aint good enough and organisied marches etc, they were set upon by loyalists mobs and beaten very badly, all the while the police force either stood by or joined in on the beatings

out of this aggression the IRA began to reemerge, much like thatcher had missed the chance to nulify the IRAs influence many a british PM had refused to deal with what was unionist animal out of control

of course if the british govermenrt had of stood up to unionism and declared ireland independant, we would never have had to witness some of the murder and madness that went on during the conflict

at least now we have a chance to secure that peace


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Did any if you admiring the ira actually live through it or get affected by it, it are you just spouting your parents propaganda. I did both.

Weird how people rarely spout their parents views until its something extreme.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cub said:


> Yeah bombing people who were paying their respects on Remembrance Day. Hardly noble freedom fighters.
> 
> The majority of the people in Northern Ireland didn't want to unite with the Republic so how can they be freedom fighters? It was futile and needless.


shooting and murdering 13 people during a civil rights rally in derry was very brave....the slight majority in 6 counties are prodestants, so hardly a surprise, but the referendums dont take into account the rest of ireland were there the majority would want a united ireland...wasnt futile and needless, just got to look at how the catholics were treated in 60's to understand how it came about...no jobs, gerrymandering, internment, just some of the events that happened, surely you can understand the hatred but you probaly dont know what these events are


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

barsnack said:


> shooting and murdering 13 people during a civil rights rally in derry was very brave....the slight majority in 6 counties are prodestants, so hardly a surprise, but the referendums dont take into account the rest of ireland were there the majority would want a united ireland...wasnt futile and needless, just got to look at how the catholics were treated in 60's to understand how it came about...no jobs, gerrymandering, internment, just some of the events that happened, surely you can understand the hatred but you probaly dont know what these events are


I think you'll struggle to blame thatcher for the Irish treatment in the 60s and 70s, a lot of labour governments from my memory!


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Kimball said:


> Did any if you admiring the ira actually live through it or get affected by it, it are you just spouting your parents propaganda. I did both.
> 
> Weird how people rarely spout their parents views until its something extreme.


most people were affected by it, but my views didnt come from my parents...if part of england was occupied by another country, would english people not want to see there country united, me thinks so


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Kimball said:


> I think you'll struggle to blame thatcher for the Irish treatment in the 60s and 70s, a lot of labour governments from my memory!


my comment didnt specify thatcher


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

I studied the Troubles and I have read dozens of books on the conflict. You talk about Catholics but the IRA campaign cannot be supported from a Catholic just war perspective because it was an unwinnable war. Pope John Paul II condemned the IRA and urged Irish people not to support the men of violence.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

barsnack said:


> most people were affected by it, but my views didnt come from my parents...if part of england was occupied by another country, would english people not want to see there country united, me thinks so


It already bloody is, have you seen parliament, scots everywhere voting special Scottish laws!!! And I'm barely joking!


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

cub said:


> Yeah bombing people who were paying their respects on Remembrance Day. Hardly noble freedom fighters.
> 
> The majority of the people in Northern Ireland didn't want to unite with the Republic so how can they be freedom fighters? It was futile and needless.


ive just put up a post were 76% of the country wanted to remain united,yet the british ignored this vote

the ppl who fought and defeated the british for irish freedom were the IRA, THE IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY an army your queen honoured when she was in dublin last year at the garden of rememberance

irish civilians have fought for the uk in the great wars and still do so today, actually more southreners signed up to fight in the second world war than the queens loyal subjects in the six counties

there will be a united ireland some day, im not in a hurry for this, cause sectarianism which was another gift the british feed into irish society is still very raw even today,there is alot of cross border involvment at the moment

the border isnt there no more, you can pass into the north and not even realise it,new hospitals that straddle the nine northern counties of ireland will accept patients regardless of what jurastiction you live in

the rememberance day poppy day bomb was a disgrace and there has been evidence from books ive read that a jamning device may have been the reason the bomb exploded, also the war was in its dirtest stage at this time and propognaga had become a huge tool in ones stuggle

regardless most parties, paramilitries etc have apoligised for the deaths caused during the struggle for independance

ive yet to read an apology for the **** storm britain has caused in afghanistan, iraq and its other influences in the so called arab spring


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cub said:


> I studied the Troubles and I have read dozens of books on the conflict. You talk about Catholics but the IRA campaign cannot be supported from a Catholic just war perspective because it was an unwinnable war. Pope John Paul II condemned the IRA and urged Irish people not to support the men of violence.


im struggling with this sentence, not a dig or anything, maybe reading it wrong....PIRA began as a means to defend catholic area's (as i mentioned, read on bombay street as a good reference), and set up no-go areas, so obviously the british army tried to crush this and led to the enevitable...theres been rebellion in ireland for centuries, so just takes a spark...course the Pope supported peace, plenty of catholics in england, you imagine if he did support it...anyway, the Pope etc weren't coming out and condeming what wsa happening to the catholics in the 6 counties (and i use catholic simply as it was 'them' and 'us' mentality, most people dont know the difference) or offering any alternatives, so he could fcuk off...depends how you look at history, lots of people will say the war was won, as nationalists have equal right etc, but other nationalists will say the war wont be over until united ireland...opinion still as spilt as ever, but theres no way the IRA could have sat back and allowed nationalist communites being burnt to the ground


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Kimball said:


> It already bloody is, have you seen parliament, scots everywhere voting special Scottish laws!!! And I'm barely joking!


they have a right to independence though


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2013)

Can see this one getting locked probably. Like most rather entertaining threads


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

cub said:


> I studied the Troubles and I have read dozens of books on the conflict. You talk about Catholics but the IRA campaign cannot be supported from a Catholic just war perspective because it was an unwinnable war. Pope John Paul II condemned the IRA and urged Irish people not to support the men of violence.


yes you are correct that irish republicanism was founded by a prodestant named thoebalt wolfetone, of 1798 he was the first of many to see how the link with britain had to be broken for ireland to prosperity

also the proclamation of independance which was read by the signatories of our constitution asks that cathoilc prodestant and dissenter unite to build a just republic

there were many prodestant who were in favour of a united ireland and fought and died for that belief

the conflict in the north dillutes this fact


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

gummyp said:


> In all fairness, she can accused of pro terrorism herself. She backed the Taliban and has been accused of allowing military intelligence to pass information to loyalist death squads.


The Taliban that she supported was not the Taliban of today. The Taliban that we know of wasn't formed until after the Soviet occupation and withdrawal. Back then they supported and assisted the Mujahideen in fighting the Soviets which the west got involved in because it was an invasion of a country that resulted in the slaughter of innocent civilians. Now I know some people are going to say, well that's just what we're doing now in Afghan, but it's not. It is completely different situation. After the Soviets left the Taliban grew in power and then started to impose one of the strictest enforcements of Sharia law known to this day. They systematically massacred civilians on a scale similar and in some cases worse than what happened in Bosnia. The assault that the Taliban launched on Mazar-i Shariff resulted in an initial death toll of over 1,000. Once the Taliban had control they started raping women, skinning men, and suffocating people in giant containers. They total death toll was over 5,000 and even Iran mobilised about 250,000 troops to the border as they had a few diplomats killed in the assault. I can't remember the exact details but it was an ethnic cleansing exercise of one particular type of Afghani. They even left bodies in the street to be eaten by dogs etc, ignoring the traditional Muslim burial rituals to bring shame to the dead. This is the Taliban that we are now fighting in Afghanistan today, not the people who fought to save Afghan civilians from Soviet raping, pillaging and rule.



lostwars said:


> ive just put up a post were 76% of the country wanted to remain united,yet the british ignored this vote
> 
> the ppl who fought and defeated the british for irish freedom were the IRA, THE IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY an army your queen honoured when she was in dublin last year at the garden of rememberance
> 
> ...


As explained in my post above, the Taliban are not good for the people of Afghan. Iraq, is a different kettle of fish again and will be better off once it's more stable, in fact it's already getting better out there, especially in the South. The journey there was not handled very well though, I will agree.

Speaking of apologies though, does anyone actually buy the apology of the Bloody Sunday shootings from the British Government? Because lets be honest here, they were always going to apologise at some point, it's the way it works, it's happened in Iraq and Afghan: civilians drawn into a riot and then taking up arms and being shot, then the government pays out compo and apologises as it's just easier for them, (I'm not saying that is what the Irish did on that day, this is what has happened in Iraq and Afghan). As soon as the words innocent civilians get thrown about during any conflict, the wheels start turning for apologies. Granted the Bloody Sunday incident took a long time to get there, but it was always going to happen (the apology that is).


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## Edinburgh (Sep 2, 2012)

clearly being an 80's kid I've only heard bit's and bob's about Maggie

but to be brutally honest I don't care, got a lot more important stuff to be dealing with over the next few weeks.

condolences to her family and all, a death in any family hits hard.

I'll leave the political debate for/and against why she was so hated/loved to the people above who know better


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

Britain and other countries are in absolute uproar about bank bosses being paid massive bonuses even though their banks made huge losses and had to be bailed out by the tax payer - so much so new laws and regulations are being sought.

The high cost of mines and miners wages in my view is a similar case - the mining industry was making large losses due to high costs !! it matters not of there are thousands of years of coal under our shores if it is so expensive to mine - it was far far cheaper to purchase coal form the other side of the planet and pay for shipping it around the world to our shores than to mine our very own coal.

Miners were not on minimum wage were they ? - far from it I was an apprentice served fully skilled engineer in the 80's and many friends tried to get into the mines due to their high salaries - The cost of mining affected the countries whole tax paying population 50 + million people - many people on far lesser wages were helping foot the cost of the mines , miners and salaries - was that fair ??.

Then Arthur Skargill and further demands on government- a communist trade union leader which is a total absolute oxymoron in itself - gobby -slagging off government which is a joke - I have lived in communist countries for 17 years - there are no gobby trade unionists - there simply are no trade unions people like Skargill -are all dead - or serving long sentences in gulags and hard labor camps - any gobby communist has no freaking idea what communism really is - as virtually no human rights exist in these countries - I would like to see any gobby British communist survive on one of those countries.

did Maggie just decide to close them herself ??

Did the British tax payer owe the miners a living - do British taxpayers owe any person a living ???

The miners talk about destruction of the industry - well there is a saying - *DO NOT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU *- the miners and other unions tried to chop that freaking hand off !! and blame Margaret for that

Who do the miners really have to blame for their predicament???


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

romper stomper said:


> Britain and other countries are in absolute uproar about bank bosses being paid massive bonuses even though their banks made huge losses and had to be bailed out by the tax payer - so much so new laws and regulations are being sought.
> 
> The high cost of mines and miners wages in my view is a similar case - the mining industry was making large losses due to high costs !! it matters not of there are thousands of years of coal under our shores if it is so expensive to mine - it was far far cheaper to purchase coal form the other side of the planet and pay for shipping it around the world to our shores than to mine our very own coal.
> 
> ...


Arthur Scargill or (Skargill) as you call him was a bit of a tool but, everything he said came true. If you want to find out the truth about the great British Coal sell off read the book about Lord Wakeham and Richard Budge (A Tory supporter) who got all the mines for next to nothing). See how Budge courted Lord Wakeham who was charged with finding the preferred in his private helicopter when he wanted to buy the coal mines and make a massive profit out of them, (there's no money in coal is there)? He got busted though when he went begging to the Government for more money. He was one Tory supporter.

Here's the case below.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-05-16/Debate-14.html


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Blame Canada imo


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

IGotTekkers said:


> Blame Canada Geese imo


Bit Harsh Mate What have they ever done?


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

laurie g said:


> Bit Harsh Mate What have they ever done?


Dunno but they probably did something along the line.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Arthur Scargill or (Skargill) as you call him was a bit of a tool but, everything he said came true. If you want to find out the truth about the great British Coal sell off read the book about Lord Wakeham and Richard Budge (A Tory supporter) who got all the mines for next to nothing). See how Budge courted Lord Wakeham who was charged with finding the preferred in his private helicopter when he wanted to buy the coal mines and make a massive profit out of them, (there's no money in coal is there)? He got busted though when he went begging to the Government for more money. He was one Tory supporter.


It is very difficult to get anyone to buy such a loss making enterprise whose days were numbered anyway - Britain has simply out priced itself for large scale industrial manufacturing - sorry about the spello


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

barsnack said:


> you havent a clue about the north of ireland so dont comment on it, you aware thatchers shoot to kill policies led to countles deaths of innocent catholics, including a 12year old girl...and regardless this is a UK site with most members who are English, so wont like this, but the IRA, where freedom fighters, so i suggest you go read on their beginings before you label them all terroists


I have served in Northern Ireland (1985) and my wife is from Dublin. I am very aware of the issues, but you just cannot bomb your way out of a problem. Killing innocent people ( Enniskillen etc) to me puts the IRA in the same league as Muslim terrorists.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Blinkey said:


> I have served in Northern Ireland (1985) and my wife is from Dublin. I am very aware of the issues, but you just cannot bomb your way out of a problem. Killing innocent people ( Enniskillen etc) to me puts the IRA in the same league as Muslim terrorists.


and the British army then, who have been found to have been in collusion with loyalist death squads in scores of murders of innocent civilians


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

barsnack said:


> and the British army then, who have been found to have been in collusion with loyalist death squads in scores of murders of innocent civilians


As the old saying goes "we could argue this till the cows come home". Lets just agree that any innocent persons death is unacceptable.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Blinkey said:


> As the old saying goes "we could argue this till the cows come home". Lets just agree that any innocent persons death is unacceptable.


 :beer:


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

mikep81 said:


> The Taliban that she supported was not the Taliban of today. The Taliban that we know of wasn't formed until after the Soviet occupation and withdrawal. Back then they supported and assisted the Mujahideen in fighting the Soviets which the west got involved in because it was an invasion of a country that resulted in the slaughter of innocent civilians. Now I know some people are going to say, well that's just what we're doing now in Afghan, but it's not. It is completely different situation. After the Soviets left the Taliban grew in power and then started to impose one of the strictest enforcements of Sharia law known to this day. They systematically massacred civilians on a scale similar and in some cases worse than what happened in Bosnia. The assault that the Taliban launched on Mazar-i Shariff resulted in an initial death toll of over 1,000. Once the Taliban had control they started raping women, skinning men, and suffocating people in giant containers. They total death toll was over 5,000 and even Iran mobilised about 250,000 troops to the border as they had a few diplomats killed in the assault. I can't remember the exact details but it was an ethnic cleansing exercise of one particular type of Afghani. They even left bodies in the street to be eaten by dogs etc, ignoring the traditional Muslim burial rituals to bring shame to the dead. This is the Taliban that we are now fighting in Afghanistan today, not the people who fought to save Afghan civilians from Soviet raping, pillaging and rule.
> 
> im not to sure on your version of events on the ground post ussr retreat but taliban comes from the term talib" one who seeks knowledge through study of the quaran, which for most taliban is were they learned there strict sharia form of islam, in schools along the tribal areas of afghanistan,they were taught there to be miss trustful of women and to fight a jihad is to fight for a future of hope or health, not the jihad we were lead to believe it meant
> 
> ...


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

lostwars said:


> I'm not to sure on your version of events on the ground post ussr retreat but taliban comes from the term talib" one who seeks knowledge through study of the quaran, which for most taliban is were they learned there strict sharia form of islam, in schools along the tribal areas of afghanistan,they were taught there to be miss trustful of women and to fight a jihad is to fight for a future of hope or health, not the jihad we were lead to believe it meant
> 
> the afghan army that we now have on the ground are mainly northern alliance fighters, who were alaways fihhting a war with the taliban post 9/11
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by "I'm not sure on your version of events post USSR retreat"? If you mean they don't sound right, there are plenty of documents available from the UN and other organisations that document the events. Plus, personally, I've had the opportunity of being there and speaking to many Afghani's from all over Helmand province who confirmed just how bad the Taliban were. I'm sure when they first started to grow as an organisation pushing for power that their intentions were good, however it would appear that things soon changed.

I would disagree about the people wanting the Taliban back as well. My time out there and the time spent out there by colleagues of mine since, plus various document and reports conducted also suggest this. A key thing to remember though is that most Afghani's, well all that I came across anyway, just want to live their life in peace, have their children educated (both boys and girls) and live without the fear of execution for speaking badly of someone. And most will side with the Taliban when they are around as it's the safer option. I'm sure in the early days of the conflict they would do the same with us also, but these day's the people in general understand that we won't execute them for arguing with us, or shoot their children for being a girl at school. Also more and more local leaders come forward and give information on the Taliban and their movements. But I think the biggest statement of the general opinion towards the Taliban is the fact that thousands of men volunteer for the Army and Police forces to fight the Taliban, risking not only their own lives but that of their families to get rid of them. I also don't think it's as clear cut as the Taliban WILL take power, It's certainly going to be a trying period for Afghan once NATO pulls out, but I think the fighting will continue. What makes you think it's a fact that the people want the Taliban back?


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

romper stomper said:


> Britain and other countries are in absolute uproar about bank bosses being paid massive bonuses even though their banks made huge losses and had to be bailed out by the tax payer - so much so new laws and regulations are being sought.
> 
> The high cost of mines and miners wages in my view is a similar case - the mining industry was making large losses due to high costs !! it matters not of there are thousands of years of coal under our shores if it is so expensive to mine - it was far far cheaper to purchase coal form the other side of the planet and pay for shipping it around the world to our shores than to mine our very own coal.
> 
> ...


To carry this on

Water Companies SOLD

Electricity Companies SOLD

British Gas SOLD

British Telecom SOLD

Council Houses SOLD ( hence homeless problems ever since)

Also check which foreign owned company you pay for your gas electric water now.

Add westmoreland furore The BCCI scandal (swept under carpet I believe) Archer .and also one minister owning part of port in Bristol where foreign coal was brougt in allegedly, (Hesseltine). Loads of money.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> I've had the opportunity of being there and speaking to many Afghani's from all over Helmand province who confirmed just how bad the Taliban were. I'm sure when they first started to grow as an organisation pushing for power that their intentions were good, however it would appear that things soon changed.


the sound like hitler - firstly good intentions - then warped at the end



> To carry this on
> 
> Water Companies SOLD
> 
> ...


good intentions to start with but went a little far as well - the bcci affected many banks around the world inclusive of hong kong - i rember that scandal but not the details


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

romper stomper said:


> the sound like hitler - firstly good intentions - then warped at the end


Exactly. The ironic thing is that most of the original Taliban fighters became what they fought against during the Russian occupation. Going back to the original comment I responded to of "Thatcher supported terrorists like the Taliban we now fight" or whatever it was that was said, it's also important to understand that the Taliban in Afghanistan are not really international terrorists as people seem to think: they just want control of Afghanistan, and as an organisation they are different from the Pakistan Taliban who have openly threatened western countries. Although some argue that the distinction is blurred due to the fact that both have "apparent" headquarters in Pakistan and because the Pakistan Taliban often assist the Afghan Taliban inside Afghanistan.

Anyway, my original point is that Thatcher did not support terrorists such as the Taliban as they stand today. They were genuine freedom fighters trying to save the lives of innocent Afghani people from the Soviet occupation.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

IF anyone here is going to labast Thatch for "selling off" Britains Industry, you might want to research How much of Brtiains Industrial base was sold off under Harold Wilson.It makes what Thatch did pale into insignificance.

Thatch believed that if certain sections of society became very affluent, that it would cause a trickle down effect, and the wealth would be distributed to everyone.Unfortunately, it just bred a society of greedy and jingoistic c.unts.

I still remember the day she gave the order for "her boys" as she called them to take back the Iranian Embassy,and The order to save the Falklands from occupation.No other leader since Churchill sent a message to the world that said we WONT be fooled with.Since then,I watched a succession of spineless, feather nesting c.unts led this country to rack and ruin.The night our carrier set sail for the Falklands, it was the same pathetic Lefty students in the pub, who were complaining,and the likely offspring of those celebrating her death.

She made mistakes.Plenty off them.However she had courage and conviction that she was working for the greater good.If nothing else, for that I salute her.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

It's amazing how much the death of an enemy has re-ignited the flame in the extreme far left. Maybe if they were like this when she was alive they would more done.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Nidge said:


> To carry this on
> 
> Water Companies SOLD
> 
> ...


The BCCI scandal was a very interesting case. They never really talk much about it, but it was used by secret services, bank of the Vatican, and others for shifting around immense sums of dirty money coming from criminal organisations and also for making payments which they didn't want to go on radar e.g. weapons deals etc.


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## TECH (Nov 30, 2011)

Divide and rule, she certainly nailed that one. I hope we never have such a divisive or domestically ruthless prime minister in my time. Even in death her name causes controversial debate.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

mikep81 said:


> Not sure what you mean by "I'm not sure on your version of events post USSR retreat"? If you mean they don't sound right, there are plenty of documents available from the UN and other organisations that document the events. Plus, personally, I've had the opportunity of being there and speaking to many Afghani's from all over Helmand province who confirmed just how bad the Taliban were. I'm sure when they first started to grow as an organisation pushing for power that their intentions were good, however it would appear that things soon changed.
> 
> I would disagree about the people wanting the Taliban back as well. My time out there and the time spent out there by colleagues of mine since, plus various document and reports conducted also suggest this. A key thing to remember though is that most Afghani's, well all that I came across anyway, just want to live their life in peace, have their children educated (both boys and girls) and live without the fear of execution for speaking badly of someone. And most will side with the Taliban when they are around as it's the safer option. I'm sure in the early days of the conflict they would do the same with us also, but these day's the people in general understand that we won't execute them for arguing with us, or shoot their children for being a girl at school. Also more and more local leaders come forward and give information on the Taliban and their movements. But I think the biggest statement of the general opinion towards the Taliban is the fact that thousands of men volunteer for the Army and Police forces to fight the Taliban, risking not only their own lives but that of their families to get rid of them. I also don't think it's as clear cut as the Taliban WILL take power, It's certainly going to be a trying period for Afghan once NATO pulls out, but I think the fighting will continue. What makes you think it's a fact that the people want the Taliban back?


i read a great book by a scotish reporter and he covered most of afghan society from the warlords hold on power outside of bases held by nato forces to the origions and future of afghanistan with the taliban at the helme

he described how the taliban had brought peace to the country and had secured a peace and security to the country for the 1st time in centuries

i agree with you most want to live in peace but ive also heard them say in most videos that they long for the return of the security the taliban offered them

the taliban had also done a great deal of eradicating the country of the poppy cuktivation, something which is again out of control

he also talks how the taliban had admitted to him that they had gone to far by banning radio and tv from the country and had learned valuable lessons in the last decade

its mostly northern alliance fighters who provide the security in the country alongside nato on a daily basis, i doubt theyl hang around to long when the taliban begin to regroup in the south of the country and begi to pour into there tribal heartland of kandahar from the swat valley and other regions bordering southern afghanistan

id say karsai will meet the same fate as the other puppet goverment that was last in place before the taliban took power

i hope im wrong on this but withserious scores to settle it will more than likely be the case


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

mikep81 said:


> Exactly. The ironic thing is that most of the original Taliban fighters became what they fought against during the Russian occupation. Going back to the original comment I responded to of "Thatcher supported terrorists like the Taliban we now fight" or whatever it was that was said, it's also important to understand that the Taliban in Afghanistan are not really international terrorists as people seem to think: they just want control of Afghanistan, and as an organisation they are different from the Pakistan Taliban who have openly threatened western countries. Although some argue that the distinction is blurred due to the fact that both have "apparent" headquarters in Pakistan and because the Pakistan Taliban often assist the Afghan Taliban inside Afghanistan.
> 
> Anyway, my original point is that Thatcher did not support terrorists such as the Taliban as they stand today. They were genuine freedom fighters trying to save the lives of innocent Afghani people from the Soviet occupation.


of course she couldnt have known what the future held but she did know the reason why the russians were in afghanistan, and it was its massive amounts of natural gas

sure right uoto 9/11 the states had a couple of ministers of the afghan goverment the taliban over to washington to agree a deal to pipe it down from the caspian season, the only reason, the relationship turned sour is because they refused to give up there guest osama bin laden

many of the fighters who fought the russians were in very high positions of power in the taliban after 9/11 and to this day, to say otherwise is not correct

mular omar revered hugely in afghanistan and with a huge cash prize on his head is still riding his honda 50 around the afghanistan to this day

Mohammed Omar

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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For those of a similar name, see Mohamed Omer (disambiguation).

Mullah

Mohammed Omar

??? ???? ???

Head of the Supreme Council of Afghanistan

In office

27 September 1996 - 13 November 2001

Prime Minister Mohammad Rabbani

Abdul Kabir (Acting)

Preceded by Burhanuddin Rabbani (President)

Succeeded by Burhanuddin Rabbani (President)

Personal details

Born c. 1959

Nodeh, Urozgan Province, Afghanistan[1][2]

Political party Islamic and National Revolution Movement of Afghanistan

Taliban

Alma mater Darul Uloom Haqqania

Religion Sunni Islam

Military service

Allegiance Mujahideen

Taliban

Battles/wars Soviet war in Afghanistan

Afghan civil war

War in Afghanistan

Mullah Mohammed Omar (Pashto: ??? ???? ????; born c. 1959), often simply called Mullah Omar, is the spiritual leader of the Taliban. He was Afghanistan's de facto head of state from 1996 to late 2001, under the official title "Head of the Supreme Council". He held the title Commander of the Faithful of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, which was recognized by only three nations: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. He is thought to be living somewhere in Pakistan.

Mullah Omar has been wanted by the U.S. State Department's Rewards for Justice program since October 2001, for sheltering Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda militants in the years prior to the September 11 attacks.[3] Those who were close to him say that he requested evidence from the United States regarding bin Laden and his alleged hand in the 9/11 attacks but did not receive any.[4] He is believed to be directing the Taliban insurgency against the U.S.-led NATO forces and the Government of Afghanistan.[5][6]

Despite his political rank and his high status on the Rewards for Justice most wanted list,[3] not much is publicly known about him. Few photos exist of him, none of them official, and a picture used in 2002 by many media outlets has since been established to be someone other than him. The authenticity of the existing images is debated.[7] Apart from the fact that he is missing one eye, accounts of his physical appearance are contradictory: Omar is described as very tall (some say 2 m).[8][9] Mullah Omar has been described as shy and non-talkative with foreigners.[10]

During his tenure as Emir of Afghanistan, Omar seldom left the city of Kandahar and rarely met with outsiders,[8] instead relying on Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil for the majority of diplomatic necessities. Many, including Afghan President Hamid Karzai, claim that Mullah Omar and his Taliban movement are used as puppets by the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) in Pakistan. Additionally, many current and former U.S. senior military officials such as Robert Gates,[11] Stanley McChrystal,[12] David Petraeus[13] and others claim that Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps are also involved in helping the Taliban.[14]


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

lostwars said:


> i read a great book by a scotish reporter and he covered most of afghan society from the warlords hold on power outside of bases held by nato forces to the origions and future of afghanistan with the taliban at the helme
> 
> he described how the taliban had brought peace to the country and had secured a peace and security to the country for the 1st time in centuries
> 
> ...


I would argue that since the Taliban became a large organisation, peace has never been around in Afghanistan. I think what he's talking about is a lack of war, but the Taliban ruled with violence. There is plenty of documented evidence of their treatment if women. Some of the stories that I've personally heard are just crazy. That assault on Mazar I mentioned earlier was part of the civil war they were fighting also. The villages defended their original assault killing a few hundred of Taliban fighters. A few weeks later they retaliated by launching an ethnic cleansing exercise. There's a few good books that talk about this but I can't remember their names of the top of my head. Will find them later tonight.

In my opinion the idea of peace that the people long for is kind of clouded. The problem is that since the NATO occupation, more civilians are dying than under Taliban rule. To the locals they just want less death and as we've both agreed, peace. But the problem with this is that as it stands at the moment, over 80% of civilian casualties are caused by the Taliban. They will and have openly stated also that they will punish all those who have opposed them. That means that every school that has been set up that allows the education of girls (which is most if not all) will suffer, which normally results in the execution of the teachers and blowing up the school. I've seen this first hand in 2007. My team were called out to support a local uprising against the Taliban that had started after they executed the headmaster and two other teachers in the street of a little village. We got there too late and there were approx 15 dead. All because they wanted to educate girls. Any town that has supported NATO forces will be punished in the same way. I think once we leave, if the Taliban gain power, things on a whole will get a lot worse for the people of Afghan on a daily basis.


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## Laurieloz (Apr 8, 2013)

£10million pounds of public money to bury her?! Did the miners who lost their livelyhoods and whose lives are still wrecked, agree to that? Do the families of 650 dead loved ones in The Falklands crisis agree to that?


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Laurieloz said:


> £10million pounds of public money to bury her?! Did the miners who lost their livelyhoods and whose lives are still wrecked, agree to that? Do the families of 650 dead loved ones in The Falklands crisis agree to that?


The £75 billion she has got us from the Eurozone maybe will cover the cost don't ya think?

Or the money we as a nation have saved by not having to bail out the miners as they were running at a loss for several years and were not financially sustainable?

If we're going to bring the Falklands into it and dead soldiers, how about the lads and ladies that have been killed in an illegal war that Blair and his Labour Party pricks sent us into as Americas bitch?


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

I personally don't think it matters how much money she made, it doesn't justify a £10 million funeral when the country is like it is. I can't imagine she would have wanted it herself... If I was her family I wouldn't want it either.


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## Laurieloz (Apr 8, 2013)

There's good and bad, of course, in everybody. Yes, the Eurozone helped our economy essentially at that time. The Cold War solutions with Gorbachev was an incredibly well thought-out agenda. I just gave 2 examples on a negative side to her, but agree with what Blair-Bush did was unfeasibly erroneous. Thanks for chat.


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Shady45 said:


> I personally don't think it matters how much money she made, it doesn't justify a £10 million funeral when the country is like it is. I can't imagine she would have wanted it herself... If I was her family I wouldn't want it either.


Yeah I do agree it is an excessive amount but if the hippy 18 year old ****ing idiots who were not even alive during her tenure in charge, didn't protest and cause the cost of security to skyrocket the cost would be substantially less.


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

Laurieloz said:


> £10million pounds of public money to bury her?! Did the miners who lost their livelyhoods and whose lives are still wrecked, agree to that? Do the families of 650 dead loved ones in The Falklands crisis agree to that?


random question.. why have you got red rep? Had a little look at your posts out of curiosity and it doesn't look like you have said anything bad?


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

ClarkyBoy said:


> Yeah I do agree it is an excessive amount but if the hippy 18 year old ****ing idiots who were not even alive during her tenure in charge, didn't protest and cause the cost of security to skyrocket the cost would be substantially less.


True I suppose


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Shady45 said:


> True I suppose


Also with the list of attendees, The Queen for example, the cost of security was never going to be cheap. By these morons protesting the risk grows exponentially as all it takes is one ****ing lunatic to hide amongst and potentially kill thousands very easily.

Just so happens I've got a 10.30am meeting in St. Paul's on Wednesday morning for work, literally dreading the thought of having to fight my way through those crowds


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

ClarkyBoy said:


> Also with the list of attendees, The Queen for example, the cost of security was never going to be cheap. By these morons protesting the risk grows exponentially as all it takes is one ****ing lunatic to hide amongst and potentially kill thousands very easily.
> 
> Just so happens I've got a 10.30am meeting in St. Paul's on Wednesday morning for work, literally dreading the thought of having to fight my way through those crowds


I personally don't see the need for such a big funeral at all... and if attendees want security I don't think it should come from the countries money. Then again, it probably would have been pretty hard keeping it as a small funeral.

haha good luck with that!


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Shady45 said:


> I personally don't see the need for such a big funeral at all... and if attendees want security I don't think it should come from the countries money. Then again, it probably would have been pretty hard keeping it as a small funeral.
> 
> haha good luck with that!


Cheers for the support haha


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## Laurieloz (Apr 8, 2013)

Shady45, Clarkyboy - you're good men.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Laurieloz said:


> Shady45, Clarkyboy - you're good men.


Shady45 has a cracking arse too. Not seen Clarkys so cant comment on him


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> Shady45 has a cracking arse too. Not seen Clarkys so cant comment on him


Would ye like to?  #nohomo


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ClarkyBoy said:


> Would ye like to?  #nohomo


erm, yes, why not


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> erm, yes, why not


Uh oh, wasn't expecting that reply


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

hahaha! :lol:


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> Shady45 has a cracking arse too. Not seen Clarkys so cant comment on him


Thanks. I needed a pick me up, you dirty dog


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