# Dbol Cycle Log



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi All, after advice on here, I am going to begin my first cycle of Dbol tomorrow.

The plan is, 40mg for 8 week with PCT starting after the last day using Nolva 40mg first 2 week then down to 20mg for 2 week.

Current weight: 175 pounds (12.5 stone)

Thought it would be best to start a log to make it easier to ask for advice should I run into anything I'm not expecting etc.

I will be tracking my lifting, as I have done for the past year or so, so if anyone thinks that would be beneficial to add, please say.

If this is going to be of no use to anyone and thinks I am wasting my time, again, please say 

Realise this may be in the wrong section, if so, apologies please move if possible.

Cheers!

Before:



Sam


----------



## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

i would keep the nolva at 20mg p/d. ive read many times anything over 20mg is a waste. maybe add 50mg clomid for 2 or 3 weeks

keep extra nolva on hand incase of gyno symptoms


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks mate, was just about to get some more just in case! Thank you


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Startd today but just something I'm wondering, I read on here that drinking sufficient water will be okay instead of taking Milk Thistle. Can someone please clarify this as I've been searching on here this morning and it seems a lot do actually take Milk Thistle whilst on orals?


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Don't see why some guys just run AAS cycles and no offence, don't really look like they have trained more than 3-4 months... But anyway.

Regardless your going to run it, so yes 8 weeks is fine. Why do you need to do 40mg ED nolva for 2 weeks?

20mg throughout for 3 weeks is fine. 20mg ED on cycle to prevent gyno.

Milk thistle is bs... no clinical studies to show it does ANYTHING what so ever to increase liver support.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

no offense taken mate. Been training for 3 years now, although only in the past year have I attempted to bulk properly with a decent diet, which may explain looking like iv trained '3-4 months'.

But cheers mate, thanks for the advice 

It is difficult though, due to threads such as following, which say otherwise:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/128922-milk-thistle-dbol.html

Think im gonna run with it anyway, can't hurt anything.


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

lewishart said:


> Don't see why some guys just run AAS cycles and no offence, don't really look like they have trained more than 3-4 months... But anyway.


Because most people see steroids as some kind of quick fix. They must think they are magic. But once the gains start falling of them pct they will realise then how important diet and training is.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

no offense taken mate,

Iv been training for 3 years but only in the last year have I took on a decent diet in order to bulk and make any recent gains, which probably explains what you said.

After reading, it seems 100% down to personal opinion - replies on the following are much different:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/128922-milk-thistle-dbol.html

Think i will just run with it anyway.

Thanks for the advice mate, the nolva dosage was suggested on here but again, it seems pretty debatable.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

boutye911 said:


> Because most people see steroids as some kind of quick fix. They must think they are magic. But once the gains start falling of them pct they will realise then how important diet and training is.


This doesn't describe me at all. For some reason my posts are being approved by a moderator so some will not appear straight away.


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Wasnt describing you was just sayin that most people train for a few weeks or months jump straight onto steroids, walk around with their tight v-neck tshirts on thinking they are hard then 3 months later back to where they were. Was jus responding to lewishart post mate not an insult on u.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

boutye911 said:


> Wasnt describing you was just sayin that most people train for a few weeks or months jump straight onto steroids, walk around with their tight v-neck tshirts on thinking they are hard then 3 months later back to where they were. Was jus responding to lewishart post mate not an insult on u.


Ah no worries man! Im gonna write my post again becuase no idea how long it will take to approve.

Basically, the nolva dosage was advised on here, although it seems debatable how much to take. Regarding milkthistle, thanks for your advice @lewishart, just confusing then when I read threads like this:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/128922-milk-thistle-dbol.html

But youre right, i've found no solid evidence.

As for training for 3-4 months, I completely understand I have not made the progress I could have should I have followed correct diet and training from the off, but I have been training for 3 years with only the past year being serious with food etc, so i'm not a complete novice (I should hope!)


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

boutye911 said:


> Wasnt describing you was just sayin that most people train for a few weeks or months jump straight onto steroids, walk around with their tight v-neck tshirts on thinking they are hard then 3 months later back to where they were. Was jus responding to lewishart post mate not an insult on u.


No worries man! For some reason every other post of mine is being approved, whilst some just appear on here so I apologise for a barrage of replies whenever they get approved. Found so much conflicting info regarding milk thistle, nolva dosages etc on here, so will just run with it and see what works for me. I appreciate the advice from everyone though, just sometimes difficult due to conflicting ideas.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

subscribed!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Zola said:


> subscribed!


was just reading through yours Zola! Nicely done!

Just for the record, think my other posts that went for approval have vanished, so I've been training for 3 years and although I have not maxed out potential over those 3 years, I have learnt so much and only in the past year have i began bulking with serious training and diet (so not so much of a novice I hope!). This is probably why I look like I 'have only trained for 3-4months'.

Anyway, will keep this updated


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 1*

Took 20mg Dbol Am and 20mg PM as suggested by several on this forum.

Gym went okay tonight, no differences as expected, although the motivation to get the most out of this course pushed me that bit more (but not too overdoing it)

Really pleased with food consumption too, if anything, starting this course has gave me a massive motivation boost and willing to stay on track.

Weight tomorrow as usual but only expecting a pound or two from my recent diet - thursday morning has always been my weigh day.

WIll keep you updated for those interested


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 2*

Normal dosage. No changes as of yet, as expected.

However, I have just had the best leg session I have probably ever had. Kept squatting right when I thought I couldn't do more.

Don't know if it's Dbol related but felt great. Dreading my legs tomorrow though.

Had to miss Romanian deadlift though due to every bit of equipment being taken, still a good session though.

All up 2.5kg from last week. Excellent.

P.s. I strongly recommend musclefood.com, excellent shop.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 3*

Weighed today: 175 pounds/12 stone 7/79.3 kg.

Increase in 1 pound.

Felt a bit sick this morning, maybe was nolva I took last night, not sure. Could be anything.

No training today until sunday.

Whilst im on that topic, my split is as follows:

Sunday: Chest/Biceps

Monday: Back

Wednesday: Shoulders/Triceps

Thursday: Legs

Don't know what others think to that, I've tried many different variations including full body workouts and SS 5x5, but this is going okay. So far been increasing each week.

Will update Sunday on chest day unless any changes beforehand.


----------



## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

try

back/biceps

chest/triceps

shoulders/legs

stomach


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

If your training schedule is going well then no need to change it.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

@dan 100 cheers mate, tried that before but often found tris were a bit shot by the time id done on chest. will probably end up going to that if I plateau with this, or maybe just change the current routine, I dont know yet but thanks fo the suggestion 

@boutye911 good point, might aswell just keep with it. At least during this cycle. Cheers.


----------



## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

cool,i find that training chest which uses the triceps to a certain degree then training triceps a few days later means that my triceps haven't had a good rest same with back n bi, but as boutye911 if its working dont change


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

dan 100 said:


> try
> 
> back/biceps
> 
> ...


Definietly no NOT do that routine^^^^^


----------



## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

robdobbie said:


> Definietly no NOT do that routine^^^^^


and why is that

the reason i ask is maybe im getting it all wrong,x


----------



## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

Is HCG recommended on this kind of basic oral cycle? I'm tempted to run 4-5 weeks of triple X with some clen during PCT before I go on holiday. I know I'll end up back where I was but it's a holiday ego thing


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

GeordieSteve said:


> Is HCG recommended on this kind of basic oral cycle? I'm tempted to run 4-5 weeks of triple X with some clen during PCT before I go on holiday. I know I'll end up back where I was but it's a holiday ego thing


Wouldnt bother running hcg on a cycle like that mate. Haha and yes u have to look good while ur on holiday.lol.


----------



## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

boutye911 said:


> Wouldnt bother running hcg on a cycle like that mate. Haha and yes u have to look good while ur on holiday.lol.


Top man  Unlike most I'm not totally against oral only courses. They have their place, just not as good as injecty


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

GeordieSteve said:


> Top man  Unlike most I'm not totally against oral only courses. They have their place, just not as good as injecty


Agree am prone to an anavar or winny course before a holiday.lol. the things we do for our egos.lol


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> Definietly no NOT do that routine^^^^^


Why not? That routine is perfectly acceptable and is similar to my own, which is working fine for me. I do

Chest/triceps

Back/Biceps

Shoulders/Traps

Legs



dan 100 said:


> and why is that


x2 any reason for saying dont do it?

Chest press uses triceps as a secondary mover, which pre exhausts them, meaning it is easier and quicker to reach failure when doing triceps in the same session. Failure = muscle fibre damage. Muscle fibre damage = growth.

@sammclean23 a few things:

Milk thistle - your choice whether to run it but can honestly say It makes no difference IMO.

Doseage - are you using 10mg tabs? If so maybe reduce one of the doseages so you can take some pre workout. Eg 10mg morning/20mg preworkout/10mg pre bed. I say this as I notice a feeling of added determination/aggression when taking dbol preworkout, in that I can push myself to lift heavier/ for longer. Also the pumps are fantastic when taking some preworkout.

Finally in regard to your question on milk thistle and water, I would drink as much water as you possibly can anyway (within reason), just to be on the safe side and to ensure you are effectively hydrated.


----------



## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

boutye911 said:


> Agree am prone to an anavar or winny course before a holiday.lol. the things we do for our egos.lol


The misses is a good 11 year younger than me mate... don't want some male model kicking sand in my face!


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

GeordieSteve said:


> The misses is a good 11 year younger than me mate... don't want some male model kicking sand in my face!


Hahah my missus is 7 years older than me dont want her finding some younger fresher piece of meat either.lol. were in the same boat. I hate male models.lol


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Why would you have a full day for 'stomach' when you can split legs and shoulders to make it a four day split?


----------



## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

ok sorry,i didnt mean do stomach separately ,my mistake

i run like this and it works fine for me but am open to suggestions

sun back n bi

Tue chest n tri

thurs shoulder n stomach

fri legs

it seems to be working fine for me


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Why not? That routine is perfectly acceptable and is similar to my own, which is working fine for me. I do
> 
> @sammclean23 a few things:
> 
> ...


Yeah i've realised there is no real evidence for it working. Though I have just ordered some Liv52 based on experience and good word iv found on here, though again, probably does little.

Iv been hammering the water! Have a water machine at work so just fill up everytime I use my bottle.

These are 5mg tabs mate. At the minute iv been having 20 mg followin breakfast, 20mg after dinner/an hour preworkout. My workout is always around 7.

Maybe it was the dbol that made me absolute hammer squats yesterday, as opposeto normal.

How long prior to workout do you have them?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> Yeah i've realised there is no real evidence for it working. Though I have just ordered some Liv52 based on experience and good word iv found on here, though again, probably does little.
> 
> Iv been hammering the water! Have a water machine at work so just fill up everytime I use my bottle.
> 
> ...


Ahh if you workout after dinner, then you are already taking it preworkout.. so just ignore me :lol:

I love dbol its a great drug IMO, and bloat/water retention is completely diet dependant IMO. So when people say 'it will just fill you up with water' I disagree, and have actually heard of people using it for a cut!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Ahh if you workout after dinner, then you are already taking it preworkout.. so just ignore me :lol:
> 
> I love dbol its a great drug IMO, and bloat/water retention is completely diet dependant IMO. So when people say 'it will just fill you up with water' I disagree, and have actually heard of people using it for a cut!


I know my previous diets have caused me to bloat so ill agree there mate, although I can't agree about the dbol due to only being on 3rd day.

Also, I can't decide whether its the dbol preworkout or just pure motivation thats boosting me in the gym - think it may be a bit of both. Either way, this is the most motivated i've ever been, which is probably a bad thing seeing as iv been training a few year, albeit not as seriously as now.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

what foods would cause bloat on dbol?? Presumably **** take out food and junk?

would drinking lots of water not contribute to the reported water retention / moon face bloat?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Think everyone is different mate. When not on dbol, bread used to bloat my belly like a B****. Looked pregnant half the time!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Well was supposed to be having chicken wraps but, half way through cooking, I realised I had no wraps.

Story short, ended up having plate full of 200g+ chicken in crispy chicken powder, few chips, green/red peppers with low fat mayonnaise. Could call it a bit of a cheat meal as it isn't great, but still.

I know my presentation is **** here 



Just checked my log, only around 1400 calories today so far. Having a day off work really f**** up my food routine. Best get eating!!!!!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Zola said:


> what foods would cause bloat on dbol?? Presumably **** take out food and junk?
> 
> would drinking lots of water not contribute to the reported water retention / moon face bloat?


I believe foods high in sodium do this although I aren't 100% on that mate. The amount of water makes no difference to what your body stores iirc, certain foods/chemicals make you store more.

Don't quote me on that though haha!


----------



## lambrettalad (May 3, 2012)

subbed:thumb:


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 4*

Nothing new to add, no training today.

Saturday, another day Im struggling with food although almost all iv eaten is meat but really need to keep eating to get to my cals. I think its because when im not at work im out of my routine, which throws things a bit, but i'll get round this i'm sure.

Started a bad ache in my lower left back, hurts a bit to press on. I've had this before but never known what it is. Seems to come and go. Maybe was from pushing myself on the leg day (legs still aching like a f*****g [email protected] from that)

Any suggestions? If not, will update tomorrow after chest workout!


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

a good muscle soak solution and lie in a nice bath for an hour with some tunes and a paper / magaizine


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

nice one mate! will have to try, cheers!


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> I believe foods high in sodium do this although I aren't 100% on that mate. The amount of water makes no difference to what your body stores iirc, certain foods/chemicals make you store more.
> 
> Don't quote me on that though haha!


Yes, high salt intake can lead to more bloating mate. And water intake IS a factor...more water = less bloat. I know, you would expect it to be the opposite, but apparently that's how it works.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 4*
> 
> Nothing new to add, no training today.
> 
> ...


Could be either a muscle spasm or trapped nerve mate. Not much you can so about a trapped nerve apart from see a physio. Hot bath might help a muscle spasm...or better still a couple of diazepam before bed.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

stuey99 said:


> Yes, high salt intake can lead to more bloating mate. And water intake IS a factor...more water = less bloat. I know, you would expect it to be the opposite, but apparently that's how it works.


I suppose the more water you give your body, the less it needs to store. Sort of like a camel knowing it wont get a drink for weeks, so it stores it for when its needed. Makes sense in that way.


----------



## stuey99 (Nov 30, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> I suppose the more water you give your body, the less it needs to store. Sort of like a camel knowing it wont get a drink for weeks, so it stores it for when its needed. Makes sense in that way.


Yeah I suppose it does mate...never thought about it like that.


----------



## marc_muscle (Nov 15, 2012)

I heard this bloke getting advice in a supplement shop today about his bloated belly.

The shop assistant in the protein said he needs

To drink lots of water!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

music to my ears that! hate it when it bloats make me look a right fat t*** !

Thanks for all the advice so far, appreciate it!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> music to my ears that! hate it when it bloats make me look a right fat t*** !
> 
> Thanks for all the advice so far, appreciate it!


What lab are you using btw mate?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

@onthebuild

Forgive me mate but do you mean which tablet am I running? (must have been a term I've missed)


----------



## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> @onthebuild
> 
> Forgive me mate but do you mean which tablet am I running? (must have been a term I've missed)


which brand dbol


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> @onthebuild
> 
> Forgive me mate but do you mean which tablet am I running? (must have been a term I've missed)


As Ackee says which lab/brand/make of dbol mate


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

All I know is they are 5mg Dianabol Tabs. Didn't arrive in any type of box. These are them:



(I know its probably a bad thing I can't identify them now, I know I was told but can't remember for the life of me)


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

british dispensary thailand aren't they?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> All I know is they are 5mg Dianabol Tabs. Didn't arrive in any type of box. These are them:
> 
> View attachment 113455
> 
> ...





Dave1180 said:


> british dispensary thailand aren't they?


Indeed they are mate


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 5*

Gym went okay today, but got a feeling my routine is too long today.

Routine today:

Chest:

BB Chest Press

DB Incline Press

Chest dips

Cable Cross over

Biceps/Forearms:

Chin ups

BB standing curl

DB incline curl

Hammer Curls

EZ bar reverse grip curl.

Took an hour and half today and by the time I reach hammer curls, I can barely lift so feel like I maybe wasting time with these.

Another thing, im used to 5x5 routines but a few month ago switched back to medium rep (8 -10) and to 4 day split. Because reps are higher, I obviously can't lift the same weight as I would for 5x5. Is this like a step backward?

Any help is appreciated.

Regarding Dbol, not sure if it had any effect on my workout, although they have been excellent this week. Since taking my motivation has increased so it's hard to single out one or the other.

Increased all weights from last week though, but did fail to meet all reps on all sets with some excercises.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 5*
> 
> Gym went okay today, but got a feeling my routine is too long today.
> 
> ...


Chest looks fine, 3 sets on barbell, 3 on DB incline, 3 sets of dips and 3 sets of cables, all to failure should take about Half an hour/35 mins.

For biceps I personally do

3 sets heavy hammer curls

3 sets barbell curls

3 sets slow DB curls, to failure.

That would take me about 20mins so you should be done in 50mins to an hour.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 5*
> 
> Gym went okay today, but got a feeling my routine is too long today.
> 
> ...


I hope you don't take offense, but surely after 3 years of training you should know what rep range suits you and your goals?

For most people 5x5 if a good mix between size and strength, higher reps of 8-12 should promote size over strength, so it depends on your goals as to whether or not it's a step back.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

@onthebuild : cheers mate. That sounds more like it. Thanks 

@robdobbie : no offense taken at all...any replies are appreciated mate  I do have an idea with my rep ranges etc however before I would just go ahead and do it, whereas now im seeking the opinions of others aswell as my own.

I do like doing higher rep ranges but lowering the weight felt strange as oppose to upping it. I see what you're saying though, should just do what's best for me personally.

On topic, chest aching today and my arms appear to be a bit pumped (if that's the word) more than usual i.e. more visible. No ill effects at all, though it is only day 6.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Well you don't have to do the same rep range for everything, you can vary throughout your workout, start with a heavy compound lift of 2-6 reps, then a couple isolations of 6-10, then a last iso of 10-15.

But like you say, do whatever you feel's best for you


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Watch Kai Greenes chest workout. He goes into vast detail about the importance of range of motion and contraction, rep ranges and using the right weight etc.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

that routine looks good! interesting that he does biceps and triceps on the same day though...

proobably just more proof that different things work for different people.

Do like the simplicity though, a bit like the 5x5 routine but with more reps.

Nice one for that Zola.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 6*

No adverse side effects, again only day 6 though.

Got my record no. chin ups yesterday.

Had to miss deadlifts due to the ****ty gym where I am working away for a couple of days (not going away again for a while though so a one off)

Didn't have dumbells heavy enough for one arm row so had to stick with 30s so can't really say if i've increased or not, s*** gym.

Visibly I think my weight is increasing.

That's all to add for now..


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 6*
> 
> No adverse side effects, again only day 6 though.
> 
> ...


Hows appetite? Any increase/decrease?

Some people find dbol kills appetite whilst others cant stop eating on it!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Hows appetite? Any increase/decrease?
> 
> Some people find dbol kills appetite whilst others cant stop eating on it!


No change at minute mate to be honest. Although I can admit I am struggling to meet 3000 cals, I keep getting close like 2700, 2600.

Think I may return to weight gainer (most likely cytogainer) to assist in meeting goals. Obviously not as good nutritionally, but if it means achieveing goals.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 7*

Shoulder/Tricep

Definately increased weight on triceps, although had to shake up excercises a bit due to the lack of equipment in the gym whilst im working away.

Had to decrease weight on shoulders due to a 'clicking' that has come back - not painful but quite uncomfortable. Some say power through it but not risking anything with shoulders, last thing I wanna be doing at the minute is sitting it out.

Weighed myself today but the time was far from ideal being 17:00 after all the meals etc (had no access to scales due to working away) - *13.5 stone, 189 pounds, 85.7 kg*

Last week I weighed *175 pounds* - thats 14 pound difference

is it really possible to fluctuate that much? Surely out of that I've gained at least a bit of weight?

Apart from that, all seems to be going well so far.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 7*
> 
> Shoulder/Tricep
> 
> ...


Don't worry about weight until after the cycle mate, as long as its going up you're fine!

Just look in the mirror for changes, if you watch the scales constantly you'll drive yourself mad!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Don't buy a branded weight gainer for god's sake!!!

You can make your own for a lot cheaper!

100g powdered oats

50g whey

400ml full fat milk

2tbsp peanut butter

Roughly 1000 cals, 75g protein, 90g carbs, 40g fat.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Don't buy a branded weight gainer for god's sake!!!
> 
> You can make your own for a lot cheaper!
> 
> ...


Youre a legend pal, sounds good! Iv been paying £40 for mine.

Doyou then just store some in a container or something? Don't fancy downing 1000 cals at once!


----------



## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Don't buy a branded weight gainer for god's sake!!!
> 
> You can make your own for a lot cheaper!
> 
> ...


I have this every day n love it... I like to blend a banana in mine as well


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

take it religiously every morning for your breakfast mate. it will keep you going to lunch time!

So you are up a stone in weight already? How do you feel etc? Strength through the roof?


----------



## lambrettalad (May 3, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> Youre a legend pal, sounds good! Iv been paying £40 for mine.
> 
> Doyou then just store some in a container or something? Don't fancy downing 1000 cals at once!


This is what I have every morning except I use 500ml of milk. I buy asda own brand or any other cheap oats then blend them until they are a fine powder with the metal blades in my blender. I then store them in a tub with a scoop from a finished protein, I weighed a full scoop of the blended oats and now I know how many to add to my shake in the morning easy:thumbup:


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

lambrettalad said:


> This is what I have every morning except I use 500ml of milk. I buy asda own brand or any other cheap oats then blend them until they are a fine powder with the metal blades in my blender. I then store them in a tub with a scoop from a finished protein, I weighed a full scoop of the blended oats and now I know how many to add to my shake in the morning easy:thumbup:


Same except I buy powdered oats to add to my shakes, works out only a tad more expensive


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks all! will definately have to try this instead of ordering expensive weight gainer



Zola said:


> take it religiously every morning for your breakfast mate. it will keep you going to lunch time!
> 
> So you are up a stone in weight already? How do you feel etc? Strength through the roof?


That stone could have been a combination of food/water/time of day. But I find it hard to believe that I would fluctuate that much so yeah, i reckon i've gained a considerable amount. Can tell slightly in the mirror too.

Wouldn't say strength is through the roof, however, i've been increasing every workout so it's all good in my opinion.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Very good, Im monitoring your progress closely, keep us updated. I'm coming to the end of my first cycle (Anavar), considering dbol or tbol after a few months rest. Doing plenty of reading in between times


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Do oyu not think updating daily is too often then? if not,

*Day 8*

Leg day today.

Legs absolutely f*****g kill me everytime. Upped weight again though.

Not sure if to change my squat routine. Basically, i do 5 x 12,12,10,10,8 reps. I think that is fine, but everytime I know i'v got 5 sets to do im instantly demotivated! May reduce reps/sets and add more weight. I know this is down to personal preference but just trying to update on things


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Just go as heavy as yiu can and then drop set. I had leg day on tuesday and did far too many sets and high reps. They are still buggered today and I am off to do back now. joy lol


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Nothing worse than legs still aching when doing back! GOod luck mate!


----------



## Juice sauce (Mar 15, 2013)

looks like your progressing nicely keep it up dog.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> no offense taken mate. Been training for 3 years now, although only in the past year have I attempted to bulk properly with a decent diet, which may explain looking like iv trained '3-4 months'.
> 
> But cheers mate, thanks for the advice
> 
> ...


That thread should be closed. Not only for it being pro milk thistle, but it being pro Holland and barrat


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 11*

Chest and bicep day today.

Smashed chest, increased weight from last week and felt easy still.

Noticing a slight difference in mirror, although this is shadowed by the bit of a beer belly I had prior to starting the course and focusing on my diet (will get rid of this with a cut during summer)

Right shoulder is becoming annoying though, ever since I started lifting anything it has always creaked and cracked and sometimes it comes back to get on my t***. Basically, if I roll my right shoulder forward (like a shrug and roll forward) it will crack continuously for all of the motion as if there is no lubrication on the joint. Not painful, just annoying.

Apart from that, all seems to be going well. No ill side effects, still trying to eat like a beast.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you taking fish oils? if not you should definitely try them. Should help the joints.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Zola said:


> Are you taking fish oils? if not you should definitely try them. Should help the joints.


+1

Glucosamine sulphate has helped my joints quite a bit, can get it from mp for around £5


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Will grab some! Cheers


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 12*

Back day today.

Pull ups

Deadlifts

One arm row

Close grip pull down

Went well but my lower back is starting to get irritating. It is aching constantly and hurts to stand straight. I don't know where its come from - nothing happened in the gym that I know of to cause it. I think picking weights up to put on the bar was more strenuous than the actual deadlift.

No idea how to remedy it or what has caused it.

No increase in one arm row this week. Currently using 34kg dumbells.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 14*

Smashed shoulder/triceps today!

More or less every excercise was less streneous even after increasing last week.

Big differences in mirror I think, just NEED to keep eating!

Also been very hungry this week. For example, had 2 slices wholemeal toast with teaspoon of peanut butter, 500ml whole milk, 3 wheatbix for breakfast, an hour later I had an empty stomach. Not usually like that for me.

On the downside, lower back has just killed carrying a light box just for a minute. I can deadlift etc, but doing normal things, really aches and feels like cramp!

All in all, goodprogress so far.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 15*

Every excercise increased again.

Lowered sets and did 4 on squats this time. managed to do heavier weight, and even if it's not theoretically any better than lower weight higher sets, it feels like I'm doing more.

Think DBOL is increasing my appetite massively. Suddenly hungry half the time, even shortly after eating.

Also, when i drink water my stomach bloats a lot and becomes harder the more I drink - reckon this is due to the dbol or just the increased water intake?

On a side note, I have no idea what is wrong with my lower back. I can squat deadlift etc fine, but for example, wednesday I carried a 2kg box for just over a minute and I literally could not stand upright without a huge ache, verging on cramp. I can pinpoint the pain to my lower left back. I seriously hope this isn't anything internal and is just muscle.

ALl is good though apart from that, hope these posts are worth something to someone


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 15*
> 
> Every excercise increased again.
> 
> ...


You should note on here your main compound lift each session, then they will be a lot more helpful


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

No worries man! I only decided not to include them because im still finding my limits for my new routine i.e. from 5x5 to higher rep ranges. With 5x5 it was easier to find my limit that I could lift 5 times, with good form.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Might be worth doing a lot more of higher rep ranges 10-12, hypertrophy stuff. You can still go heavy but means you have less chance of injuring yourself on cycle as well.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Sounds good zola. Last thing I want is to have to avoid training.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Im into my last week here and shoulder been strained for a week now, trying to go too heavy. Range of motion and good quality lift will always win mate


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Gotta be careful with shoulder. Too easy to damage man! I did mine ages ago with military press, not good.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Overheadpress has hurt mine :banghead:

Had too many days off, going down to try and do back tonight without any heavy shoulder work.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

What you do for your back mate? Do yo uusually work shoulders with back?


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

usually mix it up, either back and arms or back and shoulders..

main back exercises I like:

dumbbell rows

t bar rows

trap bar deadlifts

hyperextensions

lateral pull downs

pullups and chinups

seated row


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 17*

DB chest press increased to 36kg each, still felt I could do more.

Barbell curl up to 25kg (excluding bar) though not hit maximum yet.

Chin ups - getting better, did 3 x 10 today.

No idea if those figures seem small to others, but for me they are increasing each week so is good in my opinion. Of course when doing 5x5 those weights were higher.

Only chose to include the main compound lifts I did today.

Also, I am f***** starving all the time! Went out last night and half way through the night I just had to leave and find any food I could get hold of - not normal for me when out on a night really.

Also keep waking up through the night dying for food, despite eating before bed.


----------



## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Subbed


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

whats the score now mate?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Sorry mate been a bit busy with it being bank holiday etc!

*Day 18*

Back:

- Struggling to increase pull ups. These have sat at the same for weeks now, maybe longer. Even when other exercises are increasing. That's probably the only demotivating thing at the minute as pull ups are excellent once mastered.

- Deadlift at 45 kg (excluding olympic bar) which is a damn sight lower than it was when doing 5x5 but it's increasing every week so far.

- One arm row at 34kg (3x8). Tried upping but lost form so will try again Monday.

*Day 20*

Shoulders/Triceps:

Shoulders

Struggled with shoulders. Had to drop the weights due to pain - do not want to injure myself whilst on this course.

- Military press was at 10kg (excluding Olympic bar)

- other things such as lateral raises were reduced to 6kg.

- shrugs increasing every week though! Massively! Just managed to finish my sets last week with 24kg, so upped to 26, smashed 26 though. Up to 28 next week.

Triceps

- Close grip bench at 35 kg (excluding Olympic bar), increasing next week as smashed that too.

- Lying dumbbell extensions at 12kg, again increasing and have been every week.

- cable tricep extension at 30 pounds which is nearly a full stack in our gym - kept my form though and it felt great.

- finish off with dips which I forgot to count.

*Day 21*

Leg session:

- squats at 47.5 kg (excluding Olympic bar) and will be upped next week. Sets of 12,10,10,8.

- Romanian deadlift at 37kg excluding bar.

- leg extension at 50 pounds or kg (doesn't bloody say on the stack), will be raising next week.

- leg curl at 35 to be rasied (again no indication of weight!)

Just scared of losing my gains now! I buy tons of foods but it just vanishes! Then im buying again!

Hope this helps!


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> Sorry mate been a bit busy with it being bank holiday etc!
> 
> *Day 18*
> 
> ...


Have you tried face pulls, one arm rear delt fly etc?

my shoulders were strained but I am puttong to down to a weaker rear delt area. training these with exercises I just mentioned will help with the balance. seems to have sorted me out.

How much weight have you gained, how much you taking, what all are you taking, and how do you feel etc?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Been doing reverse flyes mate, not the one arm variation though, just dumbbell and cable.

This morning I weighed in at 183 pounds (13 stone 1) which is a gain of 8 pounds since starting.

Currently taking 40mg per day, with time taken being early morning and before work out which is always PM. Also have multi vitamins and cod liver supplements.

I opted for something called "hypergain" too, simply put, a weight gainer. Although someone said to go for home made weight gainers, at £35 it seemed ok. The nutritional aspect isn't brilliant (as oppose to cytogainer) but does the job.

I feel OK but I'm hungry all the time! It comes from no where too for example, I am often waking up in the early hours feeling physically sick because I need food. Not such a bad thing but during the night I don't feel like getting up and whacking some food down my neck with only a few hours until work.

Oh and trying for 3000 kals a day


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

you speaking about casein supplements or from sources such as milk? Sounds good though, will have to try it. Waking up starving is a **** feeling, especially when it's bad enough to wake you up.

When you say whey, do you just buy unflavoured bags of whey?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

How much is the bulkpowders banana mate? Cottage cheese is okay but the texture... can't stand it


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

i like unflavoured as it encourages you to neck it rather than savour the taste lol


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

sounds a good deal. the hyper gain stuff is £35, 1 serving (4 scoops) gives 1200 cals, 50g protein and 246g carbs. Although the GI and quality of those carbs is debatable.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 26*

After a long weekend and if im honest, a lot of drinking, I got straight back into my chest and bicep session.

Chest:

BB Bench Press 4x12,10,8,8 - 50kg excl. bar (increase of 5kg and still felt like I could press more)

DB Incline press - 4x12,10,8,8 - 32kg

Dips - 4xMAX

Cable Crossover - 32.5 kg each cable

Biceps:

3xMAX Chinups

BB Curl 25kg excl. EZ bar (increase of 2.5kg)

Reverse Curl 10kg excl. EZ bar (increase next week, much easier than last week though)

Hammer curl 10kg (1 kg increase)

Diet going okay although eating enough meat etc is killing the bank balance! Time to invest in a george foreman too I think!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 26*
> 
> After a long weekend and if im honest, a lot of drinking, I got straight back into my chest and bicep session.
> 
> ...


George Foreman is a godsend mate, quick and a lot easier to clean!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> George Foreman is a godsend mate, quick and a lot easier to clean!


Yeah it definately is!! Used it yesterday for the first time, so much easier! Can chop up my veg whilst it cooking as oppose to when I fry the chicken


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 28*

Shoulders:

Went terrible today. Its is the first time I've ever had to stop short after starting the routine. I was just warming up with military presses (no weight) and my right shoulder was causing no much grief. Stopped lifting my shoulder absolutely killed, can pinpoint to the top of my shoulder, a bit to the front. Always had problems with cracking/clicking there but never pain. Really don't want this to hold me back but I know how bad shoulders can be to repair, especially rotator cuffs.

Triceps:

I continued onto triceps

Close grip barbell - 40kg (excl. Olympic bar) 3x8. Increase of 5kg since last week.

Db lying extension - 14kg 3x10. Increase 2kg

Cable tricep extension - 31.5 (kg or pounds, f****g machine doesn't state) 3x10. No problems. Increase next week.

Dips - managed a few but not as many due to shoulder.

Still hungry most of the time due to DBOL I think. Other than that, all is still well. Increased most weeks with compound exercises. Hate to say that my shoulder might hold me back! Will see what happens.

Again, hope this is useful. Ive never done a log before so trying to tick boxes, but if I've missed anything, please ask


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 29*

Leg day today

Went ****ing amazing!

Squats:

Usually do 4 x 12, 10, 10, 8. Last week I did 47.5 kg. After my first set, a guy came over and pointed out my form is perfect, so up the weight. Second set consisted of 10x60kg. He pointed out my form was still good so I upped to 80kg (excl. Olympic bar). Managed to smash the last 2 sets at 80kg. I think I underestimate myself sometimes through fear of injury.

Good leg session though, increased leg extension and leg curl too.

Not as hungry but mean eating a lot more chicken this week.

Next session sunday, will most likely update then


----------



## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

Subbed.

I'm just starting a DBol-only course myself. Be useful to compare notes.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Will be pal! Let me know how you get on, I think I've been underestimating myself this far if im honest!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 32*

Chest:

BB chest press upped to 55kg excl olympic bar and could have done more.

However, I've run into problems again. When trying to do incline DB press next, my shoulder starting killing again. Was impossible to lift.

I skipped and went to cable cross overs but my workout suffered as a result.

Im not sure what to do, normally i'd rest, but im at a crucial stage here. Im eating loads, training as much as I can to get the most out of the DBOL.

I imagine im not setting a good example for a log here, im sure people want to see "massive strength gains, looking feeling great" etc, but just trying to say how it is. And that's that im struggling due to my shoulder  I felt great after that leg session, but when my shoulder hurt, it was like a slap in the face and 2 steps back.


----------



## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

You should listen to your body mate, if your trying to work through pain your just going to make it worse.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

front delts sore? try a 4 or 5 sets of few face pulls before you bench, helps to warm my shoulders well up. if shoukders are tender I woukdnt do csble crossovers as they put stress on shoulders for sure.

also, just include the olympic bar in your stats.. it weighs 20kg, so you were benching 75kg.

How much weight are you up now?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Yeah man no worries.

And I can't pinpoint which bit is causing problems - but looking at anatomy diagrams I think it definately is yeah. Only in one shoulder though.

Lifting or body weight?


----------



## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

sammclean23 said:


> Yeah man no worries.
> 
> And I can't pinpoint which bit is causing problems - but looking at anatomy diagrams I think it definately is yeah. Only in one shoulder though.
> 
> Lifting or body weight?


If you are going to work through the pain (which I wouldn't advise) do rotary cuff exercises and if your doing any heavy presses warm up A LOT beforehand, get some glucosamine sulphate (it's helped me with joint pain before) and certainly don't partake in strength training, stick to hypertrophy training until it's better.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Nice on TJ_ thanks mate. Most people have been saying to rest but currently, that's the last thing I need and although it would be ideal, if these excercises help me in anyway then its a win-win.

Off to the gym now to do back, going to give them face pulls a try.

Also, when do you recommend rotary cuff excercises? I used to do them before shoulder sessions but for some reaosn they got cut out.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 33*

Back:

Deadlift - 80kg 3x8 - went well. Increase of 15kg. Need to push myself more at times to get the most, as with my legs last week.

Pull ups - added weight assistance this time to get 8 out. Max currently 5 without weight.

Bent over row - 34kg will up to 36 next week

Closegrip pull down - 49.5 kg - same as last week.

Tried face pulls, felt weird at first but i can see how they might help. No shoulder pain as such but it's there constantly so was aware of it.

Thanks for the advice so far all


----------



## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

sammclean23 said:


> Nice on TJ_ thanks mate. Most people have been saying to rest but currently, that's the last thing I need and although it would be ideal, if these excercises help me in anyway then its a win-win.
> 
> Off to the gym now to do back, going to give them face pulls a try.
> 
> Also, when do you recommend rotary cuff excercises? I used to do them before shoulder sessions but for some reaosn they got cut out.


I'd do them at the start of each session with light weights to warm you shoulders up and get some synovial fluid around your joints. Just my opinion though


----------



## no-way (Oct 14, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 32*
> 
> Chest:
> 
> ...


If its your rotator cuff you definitely need to warm it up before doing shoulders or chest. I spend a good 10 mins before hand doing rotator exercises. When you tear one, you'll be ****ed for weeks/months.

You haven't torn it by the sounds of it, just a strain so take it easy, and make sure you warm up before hand.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks a lot, will have to focus more on my warm up. Usually do shoulder stretches but I imagine the warm up will help considerably. Shoulder day tomorrow so will give it a try then.

Thanks again!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 35*

Shoulders:

Did some warm ups as recommended. Did internal & external rotations and some face pulls - worked wonders!

Missed the press this week due to pain last week, just did some front/lateral raises with 6kg weights.

Shrugs - up to 30kg each dumbell today. Easily up to 32 maybe 34 next week.

Triceps:

Close grip bench - 70kg 3x8. Loved it. Increase next week

Dumbbell extensions - bench killed me but managed 4x10 @10kg each dumbbell

Cable extension - 31.5kg or pounds (I imagine kg).

Was stuffed before gym so was a bit worried, but by the end I was starving again to the point of feeling sick (DBOL seems to cause this as has never happened before)

Just a meal idea which I did today and loved.

Put 200g brown rice with 850ml water in pan.

Boil it. Stick half a table spoon of butter in with some salt.

Turn heat down and put lid on for exactly 20 mins (do not remove lid)

Turn heat off, and leave for another 10 min or longer, with lid still on

Whilst this was cooking, I Basically got a **** load of chicken, diced it up. Diced up a pepper and an onion.

Fried the chicken until sealed and then added the pepper and onions and also added some 'sharwoods tikka masala sauce'.

Cooked for around another 10 minutes and by this point the rice was done.

Perfect, rice tasted amazing, chicken is great. Made enough for tonight and tomorrow dinner. Spot on!

Did want to put a pic up but don't seem to be able to upload at the min.

As for dbol, zero negative side effects. Feel great. Bit of a belly but that could be down to the beer.

Update tomorrow after legs.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

beer and dbol are a great combo :rolleye:


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> beer and dbol are a great combo :rolleye:


Rather be honest than have people think the dbol has given me a belly


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 36*

Must point out that I have a ****ty cold and is causing my body to ache like mad so today was not a great day, but no one can say I didn't try. Probably would have been better giving it a miss, too late now.

Legs:

Squats:

3x8 90 kg - less than last week but this cold has done me over

Leg extension - 57.5 (kg or pounds). What do people reckon? it doesn't f*****g state. Nevertheless, increase from 55 last week. Increase again next week.

.Leg curl - 37.5 (same again). Increase from 35. Increase again next week

At this point I did some ab work.

Nearly 3 quarters through and its going okay, im increasing weights each week.

Tried facepulls and internal/external rotations again prior to exercise, seem to help loads.

Noticing slight changes in physique but nothing drastic - I had no expectations though.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask as I do want this to be useful.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Someone said not to weigh myself constantly but iv weighed myself today and appear to be at 12 stone 13 pounds - this is 2 pounds less than last week. Maybe my cals aren't high enough? I've been hitting 3000 and even with that I've had some fat gains.

Also, got a 26 mile charity walk tomorrow. Couldn't have come at a worse time. Stone heavier than last time too, will see how it goes!


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> Someone said not to weigh myself constantly but iv weighed myself today and appear to be at 12 stone 13 pounds - this is 2 pounds less than last week. Maybe my cals aren't high enough? I've been hitting 3000 and even with that I've had some fat gains.
> 
> Also, got a 26 mile charity walk tomorrow. Couldn't have come at a worse time. Stone heavier than last time too, will see how it goes!


3000kcals is what a natty would bulk on, you need at least another 500kcals. Are you sure it's fat and not just water bloat?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> 3000kcals is what a natty would bulk on, you need at least another 500kcals. Are you sure it's fat and not just water bloat?


**** will adjust my cals TODAY. Thank you, this is something I should have picked up on. And I believe part fat part water bloat. If it sit down I can grab it basically lol.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 39*

Tried warming shoulders up again, seems to be working. Also bear in mind I did a 26mile charity walk saturday. It didnt come at the best of times I know.

Chest:

BB Bench up at 75kg. Increase of 2.5 kg last time. Increase next week.

Dips: 3x10 again. Strange with dips, seem to have hit a brick wall.

Cable crossover: 32.5 each handle. Pounds or kg.

DB incline bench: went really light due to shoulder pain.

Biceps:

Pull ups 3x6 I managed this week.

BB Curl 3x10 25kg

Hammer curl 3x10 with 12 kg. Used 9kg last week.

Missed forearm curls due to shoulder again.

Again, no negative effects from DBOL and I HAVENT been taking nolva daily either. Nor have I been having milkthistle or liv52.

I think I may have a problem with my back which I found out on the walk. Despite being able to squat/deadlift fine. Whilst walking uphill my lower back felt like it was tensing more and more until I was stuck in my tracks. The pain was massive but I toughed it out until the flats. The same I described when carrying light objects.

Someone suggested that the pain may not occur when squating because muscles surrounding it are helping massively, whereas when walking those muscles are not being used and therefore the problem part occurs more. I have no idea.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Remember your weight is going up so if you're hitting 3x10 on dips each time then you're lifting more weight, could always add 5-10kg with a belt or dumbbell between your legs and go for 8-10 reps. The back pumps you're getting are from the dbol, potassium and taurine @ 5g/d is meant to help


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you building a strong core as well? Heavy cable crunches regularly has helped my lower back (well, that and stopping heavy squats and deadlifts for a while)

what lab are you using?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Remember your weight is going up so if you're hitting 3x10 on dips each time then you're lifting more weight, could always add 5-10kg with a belt or dumbbell between your legs and go for 8-10 reps. The back pumps you're getting are from the dbol, potassium and taurine @ 5g/d is meant to help


Good idea with the dips, didn't think of it like that. And so I might not have anything wrong with my back as such? I was thinking along the lines of compressed vertebrae and other things - had no idea it could be down to DBOL.

@Zola been doing a bit of core work yeah. Mainly planks, crunches, ab cycles. Lab is British Dispensary I believe.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 40 & 42*

Really not much to add, this week is not going well at all. Maybe down to the walk I did, who knows.

*Day 40*

This day did not go well. Lack of energy seems to be the culprit. Increase in cals maybe i.e. body trying to digest more? Longshots I know, but I can't think what else. I usually have a banana or source of simple sugars preworkout so nothing has changed there

Back:

Pull ups - actually had to get the assistance bit out. Could barely manage 3 without.

DB Bent over row - had to drop to 30kg, tried 34 but struggled quite a bit.

Close grip pull down - again, had to lower.

Deadlift - had to miss out due to lower back, as described previously

*Day 42*

Shoulders:

Warmed up as suggested again, internal external rotations, face pulls.

DB front raises - used 5kg, daren't go higher as I could feel my shoulder hurting again

DB Side raises - had to go as low as 4kg, shoulder hurting at this point.

Attempted light military press - no chance, pain was too much. Or more discomfort than anything.

Triceps:

Close grip bench - 60kg. Dropped 10kg, energy levels were so low again.

Dips - struggled with shoulder, also lower back crept up again.

Cable extensions - 31.5kg no problems.

All in all, not a good week so far. Maybe down to the walk, I don't know. Not feeling great though. And I know injuries or worn out joints must be rested, but it feels like a step backward - it is hindering progress in other areas. Any other time id be happy to have a few week off, but this far on the cycle it seems crucial to keep going; I don't want to be resting whilst on DBOL!

I must add that if I roll my right shoulder forward, it sounds much like bone on bone, as though there is little lubrication. Cod liver has had no noticeable benefit yet.

I'm sure I could have had much greater gains without the setbacks and if I expected them, I would have postponed the DBOL, so I do apologise if this log is becoming the opposite of what people want to hear.

As an aside, got some glutamine today to try and aid in preventing muscle loss afterwards, although the correct diet should help more than anything, just thought id stock up.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

take 3 or 4 days off and focus on eating and rest. your body sounds wrecked! rest will make it better. Not what you want to hear but you sound close to a few injuries so you need the rest!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

I think I might take your advice mate. I just didn't know whether this was a bad move whilst on the DBOL.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> I think I might take your advice mate. I just didn't know whether this was a bad move whilst on the DBOL.


Rest mate honestly!

First cycle I ever did was dbol only. Have to admit it was an uneducated one, as I hadn't found ukm at this point.

Was training balls to the wall, sometimes twice a day, and I ruined my right shoulder, have to e careful with it even now, so I know all too well, it's not worth years of pain for the sake of a weeks rest.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Rest mate honestly!
> 
> First cycle I ever did was dbol only. Have to admit it was an uneducated one, as I hadn't found ukm at this point.
> 
> Was training balls to the wall, sometimes twice a day, and I ruined my right shoulder, have to e careful with it even now, so I know all too well, it's not worth years of pain for the sake of a weeks rest.


Thanks for the advice man. Definitely gonna take a few days off. Yeah I was pretty lost before I found this forum. I was over at bodybuilding.com for a bit before but never really posted like I have been on here, which has been a huge help.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> Thanks for the advice man. Definitely gonna take a few days off. Yeah I was pretty lost before I found this forum. I was over at bodybuilding.com for a bit before but never really posted like I have been on here, which has been a huge help.


It really is a great tool, some innovative guys around in the 70's etc to get where they did with no internet, no youtube videos, no diet plans, no ped advice. The likes of Arnold etc must have had to pay through the nose for the knowledge we get for free on here!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> It really is a great tool, some innovative guys around in the 70's etc to get where they did with no internet, no youtube videos, no diet plans, no ped advice. The likes of Arnold etc must have had to pay through the nose for the knowledge we get for free on here!


Yeah definately! We follow plans that have been proven and tested. They must have thought "wonder if high reps works", paid loads to find out, or just run with it and experiment. Now we read for hours until we get the answer we need..


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm sorry to say this mate, but this is why people shouldn't jump on steriods without a decent base to start on, I know everyone can get injured but it's far more likely if you're not used to training properly.

I never like to be completely negative though, at least this injury gives you an excuse to train legs 2/3 times over the next week!  As has been said, rest up; baths with muscle soak soaps, ice, lots of deep heat, weightless rotary cuff exercises and lots of sleep should help your shoulder recover.

If you don't already have one, get a foam roller (MyProtein/argos/tescos?) and have a look on youtube how to use it on your lower back, hopefully you've ordered some taurine by now as well so get that down you at 3-5g/d to start with.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> I'm sorry to say this mate, but this is why people shouldn't jump on steriods without a decent base to start on, I know everyone can get injured but it's far more likely if you're not used to training properly.
> 
> I never like to be completely negative though, at least this injury gives you an excuse to train legs 2/3 times over the next week!  As has been said, rest up; baths with muscle soak soaps, ice, lots of deep heat, weightless rotary cuff exercises and lots of sleep should help your shoulder recover.
> 
> If you don't already have one, get a foam roller (MyProtein/argos/tescos?) and have a look on youtube how to use it on your lower back, hopefully you've ordered some taurine by now as well so get that down you at 3-5g/d to start with.


I agree in ways and disagree in others tbh mate.

With a decent base to start with, this implies training is good, as is diet already. This would mean better gains when on cycle to someone who has less of an idea what they are doing.

We already know muscles grow faster with AAS and although the weight they can lift increases, the tendons and ligaments often cannot keep up. This is why rotator cuff exercises etc are so important.

So it makes sense to me that someone with spot on training and diet, who adds 30kg to his lifts on cycle, is putting his tendons etc at far greater risk of injury than someone with no idea who barely gains and only adds a few kgs to each lift.

I think the key is just finding the balance between pushing your limits and knowing when to stop and rest, but that's just my take on things.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

@robdobbie I know you're not trying to get at me personally, but I am used to training properly. In the past I weighed more than I did now after following stronglifts 5x5 routine (which 5x5 routine is best is debatable) and made some good gains naturally but following, I cut too much and lost most of what I gained from inexperience and lack of concrete knowledge.

Now however, I know much more, though by the sounds of it, not enough...which I accept.

that aside, thanks for the advice mate, I've been eating and sleeping loads over the past few days i'v been resting. Back at the gym tomorrow though.

Still something weird with my back though; as described before, it feels compressed at the bottom which may be the back bumps mentioned beforehand. Could barely carry a light bucket yesterday. Put it down though, waited a sec and all was fine again. it seems to build up.

Actually got some on order yeah, as well as some glutamine.

@onthebuild agree with you mate. And I've experienced this first hand now. Saying that, I do watch people go ahead and pick up silly weights but never injure themselves, I must just be prone to it.

It is massively demotivating though. Every time I feel my shoulder click, crack, hurt I just wanna launch the dumbbells through a wall.

@notdead I can't help you on this one mate, maybe others can?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> @robdobbie I know you're not trying to get at me personally, but I am used to training properly. In the past I weighed more than I did now after following stronglifts 5x5 routine (which 5x5 routine is best is debatable) and made some good gains naturally but following, I cut too much and lost most of what I gained from inexperience and lack of concrete knowledge.
> 
> Now however, I know much more, though by the sounds of it, not enough...which I accept.
> 
> ...


Only thing you can do is keep building up the strength, keep icing it, and make sure you do rotator cuff exercises they do help big time. Its just one of those things, some people can increase bench press by say 30kg on a cycle and be fine. Other peoples tendons etc just cant keep up. I guess its just knowing when to back it off and rest some, rather than doing yourself an injury.

@notdead if you're well again i'd say go for it, if you think everything else is good. Diet, training, supps etc.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

im learning the hard way and although this thread hasn't turned out to be a massive inspirational one for people looking at running DBOL, at least they can see my mistakes I suppose...

First day back tonight anyway, will update later.


----------



## Jason88 (Mar 24, 2013)

@sammclean23 intresting read im a non user so this is full of info for someone who is still natty, goodluck later


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

For somebody that doesn't have time to read the 10 pages.. what happened in a nutshell?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> For somebody that doesn't have time to read the 10 pages.. what happened in a nutshell?


basically mate, pain in one shoulder has been holding back my training and I believe it's due to upping weight too quickly whilst on DBOL. I knew my right shoulder was not perfect beforehand but I just went full on with it regardless.

On the upside, I have gained. But the above is based on mistakes made, such as that with my shoulder.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 50*

To give my shoulder the best chance of recovery, I took it easy.

Started with shoulder rotations and face pulls then moved to triceps:

3x8 Close Grip Bench

3x10 Dips

4x10 DB tricep extensions

3x10 cable extensions

No problems with shoulder, though I could feel it, it wasn't getting in the way.

Did feel like i'd not achieved much as I dropped the weight down, but will be better in the long run.

Not sure how many days I have left, still got a few to have yet.

Taurine should be here today so will try for tonights session. Will probably go light on the squats etc.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> *Day 50*
> 
> To give my shoulder the best chance of recovery, I took it easy.
> 
> ...


Light on squats?!?!?!? It's your shoulder that's fu*ked, that doesn't effect your squat so get some weight on the bar!!!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Light on squats?!?!?!? It's your shoulder that's fu*ked, that doesn't effect your squat so get some weight on the bar!!!


hahaha true true...heavy it is


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Worth noting that dips put immense pressure on your shoulders, beware!

How many days do you reckon you have left? Whats your dose been this whole time?

What is your pct going to be? Have you taken any other estrogen control tabs on cycle?

Lots of questions!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Zola said:


> Worth noting that dips put immense pressure on your shoulders, beware!
> 
> How many days do you reckon you have left? Whats your dose been this whole time?
> 
> ...


Dips: yeah I know they do mate! Just thought id continue with them and had no issues. Saying that though, can you suggest a replacement for these? For the time being/

Days left: not sure dude, I think around 10 -14.

Dosage: every day, 4 in the morning, 4 in the evening. 40mg per day. Not taken any estrogen control what so ever, maybe a foolish move, but i've not seen any ill effects or signs that i should.

Ask as many questions as you like mate.

PCT: nolva mate, gonna use the plan suggested on here. 20mg per day for 4 weeks.


----------



## Gaz_185 (Mar 17, 2013)

How much weight have you gained since starting the cycle mate?

Whats you daily calories and macros?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Gaz_185 said:


> How much weight have you gained since starting the cycle mate?
> 
> Whats you daily calories and macros?


Will weigh tomorrow morning mate and post up here.

Calories started at 3000 with around 300g carbs, 80g fat and 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.

In the past few weeks however, this was upped to 3500 calories. If i had stuck to 3500 from the start, gains would have been much more significant in my opinion, though it was only recently I stopped gaining weight.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

@Gaz_185 Today I weigh 185 pounds/13 stone 3 pounds.

so since mid february, i've gained around 11 pounds. My neck has increased my an inch also (my chain is not wearable now).

*Day51*

Legs:

3x8 squats - 80kg. Went well.

Leg curls, extensions - increase by 2.5 pound or kg.

Also did a few pull ups,of which I had to use the assistance machine due to shoulders, which was expected.

Time for more rest until chest session tuesday. Hopefully taurine will be here today.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Just found a picture of this giza who's the same weight as me:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129858053&page=1

Just mad me realised how high my bodyfat must be! I look nothing like him


----------



## Gaz_185 (Mar 17, 2013)

sammclean23 said:


> @Gaz_185 Today I weigh 185 pounds/13 stone 3 pounds.
> 
> so since mid february, i've gained around 11 pounds. My neck has increased my an inch also (my chain is not wearable now).
> 
> ...


Sounds like it's going well bud, although I would of expected a bit more weight gain from the dbol. The last 6 weeks of my cycle I added in dbol and my weight shot up 18lbs over the 6 weeks and I was running letro for gyno symptoms.

It's still early days but I'm 1 week into pct and my weight has stayed the same. Hopefully I can maintain that for the next 4/5 weeks.....we'll see!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Gaz_185 said:


> Sounds like it's going well bud, although I would of expected a bit more weight gain from the dbol. The last 6 weeks of my cycle I added in dbol and my weight shot up 18lbs over the 6 weeks and I was running letro for gyno symptoms.
> 
> It's still early days but I'm 1 week into pct and my weight has stayed the same. Hopefully I can maintain that for the next 4/5 weeks.....we'll see!


Good luck mate! I seriously hope I manage to keep it. You using glutamine at all?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

*Day 54*

Chest and Biceps today.

Warmed up as I have been doing, external/internal rotations and face pulls.

Did a medium weight on flat BB bench (70kg), did 4x10 reps comfortably, no right shoulder problems.

However, I had yet another set back.

The first few reps of BB incline bench seemed to cause a huge problem in both shoulders. It wasn't sudden, it built up as the reps carried on (bit like cramp?). I couldn't pinpoint where it was hurting but it started at my shoulder and even went as far as the whole of my upper arm. Couldn't carry on from this point and I have no idea what this was. I rested and it completely went but came back as soon as I started again.

this was not with heavy weight and as far as im aware, my form was spot on. It didn't feel like joint pain at all.

Arms went fine though, no problems and I can press up fine now im home, though it stopped me at the gym.

God knows what this is, will do some more research, just wanted to update.

I did take a pic pointing to where I thought It thought but not sure if it would help.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hit a low point this week.

Every session has left me feeling **** in that I wasnt able to do what I aimed.

All weights have been lowered a lot but my shoulders are still causing problems.

Rest seems the only solution as the rotations/face pulls only seem to help with certain excersises.

Also dropped a pound since last weighing

Not really sure where to go from here, if to rest and sit out the rest of the course or to keep going extremely light.

This is not the success I was hoping for but if anything its taught me a lot about my body.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

How long to go? Maybe best to start pct and rest up? You still sound wrecked.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> Hit a low point this week.
> 
> Every session has left me feeling **** in that I wasnt able to do what I aimed.
> 
> ...


Here's what I'd do- carry on with your cycle, rest for the next 7-10 days, go to the gym only to do legs, but *nothing* involving upper body, then go back to upper body and if everything's healed up, start PCT.

The problem with starting PCT now would be that you're not going to be able to train 100% and you'll lose more of your gains, especially if you get injured further and can't train at all.

Good luck buddy, keep us updated.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Zola said:


> How long to go? Maybe best to start pct and rest up? You still sound wrecked.


Not long mate. Talking a few days I think.



robdobbie said:


> Here's what I'd do- carry on with your cycle, rest for the next 7-10 days, go to the gym only to do legs, but *nothing* involving upper body, then go back to upper body and if everything's healed up, start PCT.
> 
> The problem with starting PCT now would be that you're not going to be able to train 100% and you'll lose more of your gains, especially if you get injured further and can't train at all.
> 
> Good luck buddy, keep us updated.


Yeah I think ill do that. The last thing I want is to lose gains uneccessarily.

Thanks for replying both, honestly is a big help.

Will keep you updated.

Thanks again.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

I am aware of physical side effects such as GYNO but are there any mental effects associated with DBOL?


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Sorry for double post, just an update, been having some ****ty sides this week I believe.

For the whole of the week I have had zero appetite. I had a cheat meal the other day (KFC) and I literally had a few chips and a chicken wing and I was struggling, even though I usually eat like a horse.

Also, i've had no motivation to do absolutely anything and I read this could be a side of DBOL.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> Sorry for double post, just an update, been having some ****ty sides this week I believe.
> 
> For the whole of the week I have had zero appetite. I had a cheat meal the other day (KFC) and I literally had a few chips and a chicken wing and I was struggling, even though I usually eat like a horse.
> 
> Also, i've had no motivation to do absolutely anything and I read this could be a side of DBOL.


Yeah mate I suffer terrible sides from dbol when running over 4 weeks of the stuff. Appetite just vanishes. Only ever going to run dbol alongside eq for that reason.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Yeah mate I suffer terrible sides from dbol when running over 4 weeks of the stuff. Appetite just vanishes. Only ever going to run dbol alongside eq for that reason.


Yeah mate. As difficult as I find it eating my cals etc anyway, having no appetite just makes it a much harder feat. I imagine some just power through but I actually thought i was gonna be sick other day after such a small meal.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

sammclean23 said:


> Yeah mate. As difficult as I find it eating my cals etc anyway, having no appetite just makes it a much harder feat. I imagine some just power through but I actually thought i was gonna be sick other day after such a small meal.


I know a few people go on about anabolic designs 'ravenous' which is meant to increase appetite a lot.

Other than that vit b12 injections are meant to be great for appetite.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Before



After

(ignore the blue drawing, I tried to cover my face as I look a bellend in pictures)

Finished the course now. If im honest, I don't see a dramatic difference, if any. The only differences I've noticed is following a routine, not relaxed as I am now.

Clearly in 8 weeks, regardless of whether on DBOL or not, at best, I could have gained a pound a week easily. And although I have gained nearly a stone, I don't think much of that is muscle.

The following weeks will then just be running PCT, glutamine, taurine, cod liver and multi vitamins. Also, I am not happy at all with the beer belly I've acquired so that may have to go in due course.

This may not have gone as expected, but I've learnt a **** load from it, and a lot about my body which will help massively in future bulks.

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## Bigtime1989 (May 4, 2013)

sammclean23 said:


> View attachment 120546
> 
> 
> Before
> ...


Can't really tell if you have gained weight to be honest mate in your pictures, a stone is alot of weight and personally i wouldn't say that you have put stone on (looking at the pictures)

It doesn't look like your that old either? As in you look about 18 or something.

Well done on completing the log though, was a good read


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Bigtime1989 said:


> Can't really tell if you have gained weight to be honest mate in your pictures, a stone is alot of weight and personally i wouldn't say that you have put stone on (looking at the pictures)
> 
> It doesn't look like your that old either? As in you look about 18 or something.
> 
> Well done on completing the log though, was a good read


Yeah I know where you're coming from, which is why I don't think much was muscle. Seems most has gone around my waist (probably excess calories).

Im 21 mate  got IDd to buy WD40 other day though...

This was before my bulk (again, diet was not to a T):


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Only problem is, you started at a high bf% so you can't really tell how much you've put on, definitely added some size though mate! Make sure you keep training and eating hard during PCT


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Only problem is, you started at a high bf% so you can't really tell how much you've put on, definitely added some size though mate! Make sure you keep training and eating hard during PCT


Cheers man! It's replies like that that have helped me keep on track.


----------

