# Fasted cardio how much difference does it make?????



## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Guys

I Have read some much great info on this forum as regards fat loss, cutting etc

The one thing that keeps coming up is "fasted cardio".

Now I have tried this myself but due to gym opening times and work commitments i can only do this on the weekend which i make the most of and do both Saturday and Sunday. So it is quite hard to really assess this just by my own experience.

So that said my question is this:-

How much better do you think Fasted cardio is than say cardio done when it can be fitted in to your day i.e evening etc ( cos lets face it not all of us have the luxury of planning our gym time perfectly)

Cheers in advance


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Get up in the morning and do some walking and get yourself a heart monitor.

I can only go by my training partner who does it (has a running machine at home) and with a good diet he has made amazing changes).


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

depends what your goals are.

if it is to get shredded then fasted cardio, IMO, is imperative

if you are on a "bulk" as it were but dont want to get stupid fat then cardio has its place but is not imperative to do in the morning...PWO is fine in my opinion


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Well it burns the same number of calories as non fasted cardio, so from that point of view no difference. The theory for doing it is simply timing - cardio before eating will force you to burn up calories from energy stores (intra muscular triglycerides, glcyogen, muscle tissue and fat) rather than a mix of those things combined with the energy liberated from food after you have eaten.

In my experience fasted cardio seems (I could be wrong) to burn up a bit more muscle than non fasted cardio, although the difference is small and only shows after a month or so.


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## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

hsmann87 said:


> depends what your goals are.
> 
> if it is to get shredded then fasted cardio, IMO, is imperative
> 
> if you are on a "bulk" as it were but dont want to get stupid fat then cardio has its place but is not imperative to do in the morning...PWO is fine in my opinion


"if it is to get shredded then fasted cardio, IMO, is imperative"

is that from personal experience mate?


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

austin84 said:


> "if it is to get shredded then fasted cardio, IMO, is imperative"
> 
> is that from personal experience mate?


yeah.

but i mean i could be wrong. i didnt experiment with cardio at other times of the day. but for me, fasted cardio worked. and it seems to work for a lot of people.

but it boils down to your genetic makeup. walking the dog for 45 mins per day could be enough cardio for you...you just gotta experiment


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

i love fasted cardio and i do it 5 days a week - just a short 20min jog.

im not trying to burn fat/get sgredded tho.

i find it increases my appetite, reduces bloat, improves my digestion,wakes me up and makes me very regular to the toilet.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Dtlv74 said:


> Well it burns the same number of calories as non fasted cardio, so from that point of view no difference. The theory for doing it is simply timing - cardio before eating will force you to burn up calories from energy stores (intra muscular triglycerides, glcyogen, muscle tissue and fat) rather than a mix of those things combined with the energy liberated from food after you have eaten.
> 
> In my experience fasted cardio seems (I could be wrong) to burn up a bit more muscle than non fasted cardio, although the difference is small and only shows after a month or so.


ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!

it doesn't make a diff to the cals burnt, but the source of the cals... no once again, this is why dieting with AAS is such an advantage (and why i think training- bulking,, but ESP dieting, without AAS is counterproductive to having above normal muscle mass..)

If you take AAS, they FORCE the body to retain Nitrogen- i.e the "N" in the -NH3 (amine group, that makes an amino acid), which means the body retains aminos for protein synthesis, and as the body is fasted in the morning (ie any normal person will have a blood glucose reading of 5.6 or under), it is forced to burn triglycerides for energy...

If you're natural... you will burn aminos and unless you're exercising at above 85% HR for over 1.0-1.5 hours, you will not burn triglycerides (marathoners hit the "wall" at about 13 mile/1hour 10min mark- where the body switches from glucose/aminos to triglycerides for energy..)

So, unless you're on AAS, fasted cardio will burn muscle first, and then fats, assuming you do it for over an hour....


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Does anyone take their BG readings that do cardio fasted but are dieting using carbs?

Past few days all my cardio has been done under 5.6mmol, my point is, are most in a mini state of ketosis doing morning cardio fasted after being fasted all night? Even on a non keto diet?


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## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!
> 
> it doesn't make a diff to the cals burnt, but the source of the cals... no once again, this is why dieting with AAS is such an advantage (and why i think training- bulking,, but ESP dieting, without AAS is counterproductive to having above normal muscle mass..)
> 
> ...


WOW! Are you sure your not a medical practitioner of some sort, lol

So if i'm trying to lose b/f and as little muscle as possible (naturally), am i actually better off doin my cardio in a non-fasted state?

Sorry for the questions guys but i am new to all this and i am realizing this stuff is clearly a science


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## blackbeard (May 3, 2009)

austin84 said:


> WOW! Are you sure your not a medical practitioner of some sort, lol
> 
> So if i'm trying to lose b/f and as little muscle as possible (naturally), am i actually better off doin my cardio in a non-fasted state?
> 
> Sorry for the questions guys but i am new to all this and i am realizing this stuff is clearly a science


I think people generally get too hung up on the " if i do cardio,will it burn muscle" attitude and due to this fail to get to the low body fat that thy're aspiring to reach.I'm not taking AAS and i do 40 minutes fasted cardio most mornings(stairmaster at home) and then between 9-12 am(3 hours) i'm walking briskly up and down steps etc as my job is a postman.

I only notice that my muscles flatten out when my body fat falls below 10% and by this i mean veins in lower abdomen etc and even then a days carbohydrate replenishment rights this.

So go ahead and do the fasted cardio the body is not as catabolic as you think.

I maintain 10-12% body fat,95 -97 kilos at 5'9" without AAS .My avi pic is after 10 days of all inclusive hotel food so i'm usually leaner than that.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

blackbeard said:


> I think people generally get too hung up on the " if i do cardio,will it burn muscle" attitude and due to this fail to get to the low body fat that thy're aspiring to reach.I'm not taking AAS and i do 40 minutes fasted cardio most mornings(stairmaster at home) and then between 9-12 am(3 hours) i'm walking briskly up and down steps etc as my job is a postman.
> 
> I only notice that my muscles flatten out when my body fat falls below 10% and by this i mean veins in lower abdomen etc and even then a days carbohydrate replenishment rights this.
> 
> ...


Very good stats indeed for non AAS use, just shows it can be done with proper commitment.


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## Andrew Jacks (Sep 29, 2010)

The main use for a fasted Cardio is to kick a keto diet into life otherwise it is an illogical thing to do as your metabolism is not started so your body is running in starvation mode and lean burning.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Andrew Jacks said:


> The main use for a fasted Cardio is to kick a keto diet into life otherwise it is an illogical thing to do as your metabolism is not started so your body is running in starvation mode and lean burning.


unless you're taking AAS


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## Andrew Jacks (Sep 29, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> unless you're taking AAS


Dude sorry I have no knowledge of such things, so bow down to your expert knowledge


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## stevo99 (Nov 28, 2008)

blackbeard said:


> I think people generally get too hung up on the " if i do cardio,will it burn muscle" attitude and due to this fail to get to the low body fat that thy're aspiring to reach.I'm not taking AAS and i do 40 minutes fasted cardio most mornings(stairmaster at home) and then between 9-12 am(3 hours) i'm walking briskly up and down steps etc as my job is a postman.
> 
> I only notice that my muscles flatten out when my body fat falls below 10% and by this i mean veins in lower abdomen etc and even then a days carbohydrate replenishment rights this.
> 
> ...


what does a typical days diet and weeks training look like for you bud? great stats!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

austin84 said:


> WOW! Are you sure your not a medical practitioner of some sort, lol
> 
> So if i'm trying to lose b/f and as little muscle as possible (naturally), am i actually better off doin my cardio in a non-fasted state?
> 
> Sorry for the questions guys but i am new to all this and i am realizing this stuff is clearly a science


I'm a failed med student :huh: truly- paid more attention to the biology of girls at uni than my course... :tongue:

finished a chemistry degree instead, spent time at the AIS (aust. inst of sport) as part of my psych degree.. then did another degree then ended up in investment banking somehow...

but back to the topic....

yes, you could say in absolute terms you preserve more muscle by not doing fasted cardio.. but its a tough balance; fact is dieting IS by nature a CATABOLIC process.. and you are trying to convince your body to shed fat preferentially over muscle.. which in metabolic terms is NOT the way your body prefers to work...

without AAS, the way around this is SHORT weights workouts- to make your body respond to overload and retain muscle it feels it NEEDS.. (short workouts to keep cortisol low).

Now with cardio, don't do it intensely (regardless of fasted or not)- read why here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol

where it states that:

Intense (high VO2 max) or prolonged physical exercise stimulates cortisol release to increase gluconeogenesis and maintain blood glucose.[66] Proper nutrition[67] and high-level conditioning[68] can help stabilize cortisol release

so do cardio, but keep the HR under 80% of max..


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## The Ultimate Warrior (Dec 20, 2010)

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Ausbuilt again"

LOL, I guess I have repped you to much Ausbuilt!!! Your posts are great!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

JPaycheck said:


> "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Ausbuilt again"
> 
> LOL, I guess I have repped you to much Ausbuilt!!! Your posts are great!


Thanks  its good to spread the love! LOL

My motivation is my girly is way younger than me, and hot, and she says i was in amazing condition when i was in my 20s... and I said I could do better now! (me and my BIG mouth!! i'm finding its taking some serious sh*T to make that start to be the case! LOL).


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## benicillin (Feb 28, 2010)

so ausbuilt, i'm currently cutting down - as a natty, would you say the best way to do my cardio would be post workout, at a low intensity?


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## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> I'm a failed med student :huh: truly- paid more attention to the biology of girls at uni than my course... :tongue:
> 
> finished a chemistry degree instead, spent time at the AIS (aust. inst of sport) as part of my psych degree.. then did another degree then ended up in investment banking somehow...
> 
> ...


LOL I knew i was onto something,

Thats great mate your a star


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## blackbeard (May 3, 2009)

stevo99 said:


> what does a typical days diet and weeks training look like for you bud? great stats!


I use a timed Ketogenic diet where most of my carbs for the week are around my training.I train with weights 3 times a week.

1 Chest bis tris

2 Back delts

3 Legs

Pre,during,and post workout i'll have a shake with : 40g maltodex

10-15g BCAA

10-15G EAA

10-15G glutamine.

20 minutes post workout 50g unflavoured whey isolate.

If i feel depleted an hour later i may have a meal with more carbs such as a sweet potato/cottage cheese.

I've recently started using metformin to bring my BG back down post carbs.

I'll do fasted cardio on average 4-5 days per week(stairmaster for 40min) as well as my job which involves 3hours+ walking.

Diet wise 5 egg omelette with 30g cheddar 6am

whey and BCAA drink sipped between 10 and 11

lamb or beef mince with spinach 1pm

tuna EVOO salad 4p.m

homemade burgers/greens 7p.m

quark/whey/peanut butter 10p.m

My diet varies a bit but usually looks something like that,probably a bit low in calories for some but i have the ability to put on vast amounts of weight if the calories are high.

Training days i probably average 2800 cal and 2300 on non training days


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

benicillin said:


> so ausbuilt, i'm currently cutting down - as a natty, would you say the best way to do my cardio would be post workout, at a low intensity?


wow- impressive pic for a natty.. i think i must be lazy and rely on the science to much.. ;-) actually I'm just impatient! LOL at any rate, I'm amazed you've got that much muscle mass considering the effects of cortisol...

at any rate, if you're looking to minimise the effects of cortisol, then short workouts are better for weights; you could follow with cardio, as long as its only med/high intensity rather than high/max.

Optimally you'd do them separately to recover in between.. but reality is not everyone can manage the time!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

blackbeard said:


> I use a timed Ketogenic diet where most of my carbs for the week are around my training.I train with weights 3 times a week.
> 
> 1 Chest bis tris
> 
> ...


damn that is a tight reign on food and workouts! very impressive! (results speak for themselves).

I think you're lucky that your job means you get 3+hours of medium cardio; which is not bad for cortisol levels and helps to keep you lean (assuming you don't go above 85% HR on your stairmaster!!)


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## blackbeard (May 3, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> damn that is a tight reign on food and workouts! very impressive! (results speak for themselves).
> 
> I think you're lucky that your job means you get 3+hours of medium cardio; which is not bad for cortisol levels and helps to keep you lean (assuming you don't go above 85% HR on your stairmaster!!)


The job is beneficial,it's very hilly where i live also ,which helps.My metabolism is such that boat loading calories is a no no.I tried that as a teenager,210lbs on my 18th birthday,225lbs on my 19th and 240lbs on my 20th.I suffered with shin splints and broke a sweat and was breathless after a couple of flights of stairs.I prefer a leaner look and don't feel the need to bulk up to gain muscle.


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## stevo99 (Nov 28, 2008)

thanks for that blackbeard


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## benicillin (Feb 28, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> wow- impressive pic for a natty.. i think i must be lazy and rely on the science to much.. ;-) actually I'm just impatient! LOL at any rate, I'm amazed you've got that much muscle mass considering the effects of cortisol...
> 
> at any rate, if you're looking to minimise the effects of cortisol, then short workouts are better for weights; you could follow with cardio, as long as its only med/high intensity rather than high/max.
> 
> Optimally you'd do them separately to recover in between.. but reality is not everyone can manage the time!


Cool, thanks for your help mate.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Fasted cardio for me works better for me I find it helps my metabolism through the day.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Magic Torch said:


> Fasted cardio for me works better for me I find it helps my metabolism through the day.


I agree- me too; but I take AAS.. but I'd say by your pic you should be fine with fasted cardio too ;-)


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> I agree- me too; but I take AAS.. but I'd say by your pic you should be fine with fasted cardio too ;-)


I take AAS too dude


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Magic Torch said:


> I take AAS too dude


I know  thats what I meant by your pic- too good condition- unachievable natty! (size/lean)


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## pipebomb (Oct 3, 2009)

Andrew Jacks said:


> The main use for a fasted Cardio is to kick a keto diet into life otherwise it is an illogical thing to do as your metabolism is not started so your body is running in starvation mode and lean burning.


It takes quite a bit of starving mate to actually go into starvation mode,

I used to think along the same lines, now i think different.

Just being in a fasted state from the night before isn't going to put you in starvation mode.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

pipebomb said:


> It takes quite a bit of starving mate to actually go into starvation mode,
> 
> I used to think along the same lines, now i think different.
> 
> Just being in a fasted state from the night before isn't going to put you in starvation mode.


QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

There are plenty of studies out there than show true starvation mode doesn't kick in till around the 72hr (3days!) mark of no food, in fact, up to this point metabolism increases slightly (up to ~5%). This happens because the body is signalling for you to go out and hunt / gather food, and is part of the reason why some people get fidgety / feeling of wellbeing during a fast.

Another nail in the coffin of "a meal every 2-3hrs" brigade.


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## a184 (Dec 30, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!
> 
> it doesn't make a diff to the cals burnt, but the source of the cals... no once again, this is why dieting with AAS is such an advantage (and why i think training- bulking,, but ESP dieting, without AAS is counterproductive to having above normal muscle mass..)
> 
> ...


But the body only uses protein for energy as a last resort, (eg during prolonged starvation) and preferentially selects carbs and later TGs for energy before it would resort to protein. So why would an early morning fasted cardio burn protein? I'm confused... :S


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> I know  thats what I meant by your pic- too good condition- unachievable natty! (size/lean)


Ah ok soz mate

Yeah agree you need some aas to hold on to muscle regardless of what BCAA sellers tell you lol


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## pipebomb (Oct 3, 2009)

Im natty at the moment and always do fasted cardio ive seen no muscle loss at all tbh.

the only loss i see is fat, maybe sub 10% bf is a different story i dont know, im 11% at the moment and all is well


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

a184 said:


> But the body only uses protein for energy as a last resort, (eg during prolonged starvation) and preferentially selects carbs and later TGs for energy before it would resort to protein. So why would an early morning fasted cardio burn protein? I'm confused... :S


actually noooooo

The body uses protein VERY fast- in fact straight after a workout of an hour or so, of even 30mins of high intesity cardio... for a start cortisol breaks down proteins into amino acids; the only source of full proteins in the body is muscle (a metabolically expensive substance!) and these aminos will be used to form glucose (called gluconeogenesis)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

where it states that:

"this process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, low-carbohydrate diets, or intense exercise"

your body will only move to burning triglycerides for energy if aminos are not present/at low levels...

marathon runners move from glycolysis to gluconeogenesis to burning triglycerides in about an hour... as they burn fats exclusively during the last hour or so..


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> I know  thats what I meant by your pic- too good condition- unachievable natty! (size/lean)


wanna bet? 

lol


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## LionMX (Oct 4, 2010)

Really interesting thread. Kept me engaged all the way through, gonna dish out some reps for this one.

I personally have had great results from interval cardio. I follow the "couch to 5k" routine as it breaks me in gently following a drop in fitness. I have a 7 month old American Bulldog that I take him with me - I only wish I could put on 2lbs of muscle a week like he does... he looks ace!


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## Mark W H (Jan 25, 2010)

I've just started a "couch to 5k" and must be in terrible shape cause i struggled with session no 1. No 2 is tonight and i'm not looking forward to it. Dragging my sorry ass round the streets is not my idea of fun but if i want to shift some pounds and improve my general state of fitness then i guess its the best course of action.


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Most of this of fasted cardio is broscience. Fasted cardio burns more calories while you do it but after eating the body burns more calories overall since it keeps burning after cardio as well. Fat loss is calories in & out...not going to overload you with sources but below is one study

Source:

Zoladz JA, Konturek SJ, Duda K, Majerczak J, Sliwowski Z, Grandys M, Bielanski W. Effect of moderate incremental exercise, performed in fed and fasted state on cardio-respiratory variables and leptin and ghrelin concentrations in young healthy men . J Physiol Pharmacol. 2005 Mar;56(1):63-85. ?


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Bit of thread necromancy going on here 

Agree though - much of the stuff talked about fasted cardio is broscience. It may make a difference when bodyfat levels are getting really low, but for your average trainer dropping from 16% to 12%, I can't see it mattering at all - provided total daily cals are kept constant.

Having said that, I really like fasted cardio. I've got into the habit of having a 20min blast on my bike on weekday mornings before breakfast, and I go to work buzzing.


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