# peg mgf



## fugi2000 (Apr 11, 2007)

I have my pegmgf from muscle-research but I dont know if its come with bact water or AA. How long will they last once reconstituted?

Also, is it best for sub-q injection or IM?

cheers


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

well you need to find out from MR what it has come with for starters, pMGF is an IM shot the night before you train that bodypart 2-3 times a week.


----------



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Pscarb said:


> well you need to find out from MR what it has come with for starters, pMGF is an IM shot the night before you train that bodypart 2-3 times a week.


I have heard its not up to much!!! Anyone know different??


----------



## fugi2000 (Apr 11, 2007)

just been told by MR that its Bact water, and it will last about 2 weeks. Thats 1ml a week at around 330mcg 3x, which may be too much for me, i dont know


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be honest 330mcg is not that much you cannot compare this amount to other peptide amounts, i would normally advice 250mcg's 3 x week so 330 is not that high....


----------



## fugi2000 (Apr 11, 2007)

thanks pscarb, is there much diff to pre-mixed peptides and non mixed? stability wise? Im already feeling the pump effects from the mgf but was never getting much from the igf, and that was pre-mixed. i feel that if I go for the lypolized igf then I may get better results, or maybe its the combo between the two peptides the reason why im getting thoses great pumps?


----------



## Ellis (Mar 18, 2006)

Its quite long but Here is a interesting read for you, on IGF and MGF



Proper Use of IGF & MGF

By Anthony Roberts

Discussion of pharmaceutical agents below is presented for information only. Nothing here is meant to

take the place of advice from a licensed health care practitioner. Consult a physician before taking any

medication.

I have to admit, I was one of the last to jump on the Peptides bandwagon. I just wasn't impressed by the

results people had been talking about over the last few years. Sure, the guys in the IFBB have been

getting bigger and bigger as the years have been going by, as have NPC competitors, but I still wasn't

convinced that it was from the hGH (human Growth Hormone, also called "GH"), the insulin, or the IGF‐1

(insulin‐like growth factor). Besides, guys were getting pretty huge before that stuff was readily

available, so I wasn't ready to buy into Growth Factors and Peptides just yet.

I was in my late teens when hGH just started getting really popular, and just started becoming the "must

have" drug for contest prep&#8230;In fact, even a decade later, most bodybuilders still consider hGH almost a

necessity for contest prep, and many use the full spectrum of Growth Factors (Insulin, IGF‐1, hGH)

virtually year round. But still, from talking to regular bodybuilders, I wasn't impressed. Most people who

I spoke to (who weren't professional bodybuilders or top amateurs) said that growth factors simply

didn't give them the same results as steroids did. Personally, I didn't see the rationale behind paying a

couple of hundred dollars for something which wouldn't even produce the same results as a couple

dollars worth of testosterone. Well&#8230;

I think that's because a lot of people simply use Growth Factors incorrectly&#8230;because properly used, I

think that they are highly potent and impressive drugs for both athletics as well as bodybuilding.

In other words, I was wrong. Sort of. See, I think that the reason we're seeing mixed results from people

using Peptides is their doses and dosing protocols. So what I'm going to do here is basically give you an

overview of the various peptides on the market, and let you in on the optimal time, dose, and

combination I think will allow them to produce the best possible results. Basically, what I'm going to do

is tell you about all of the new peptides on the market, and how they are used for maximum results.

Now, to understand how to properly use them, first a brief explanation of how they function naturally

may be in order. Natural GH levels are controlled by several stimuli including both neurotransmitters as

well as hormones. Increasing your body's natural GH level is first initiated in the hypothalamus. There, in

the hypothalamus, two peptide hormones act to either increase or decrease GH output from the

pituitary gland; these hormones are known respectively as somatostatin (SS) and growth hormonereleasing

hormone (GHRH) ‐ and they have opposing effects. Somatostatin acts at the pituitary to

decrease hGH output while GHRH acts at the pituitary to increase hGH output. Together these

hormones are secreted in pulses to regulate your body's hGH levels. In this way, your body can either

cause the secretion or inhibition of hGH from the pituitary, as necessary.

When there isn't enough hGH in your body, GHRH acts to initiate the emission of hGH, and when there

is too much hGH in the body, somatostatin does the opposite. The latter effect occurs because hGH is

subject to a negative feedback loop. When GHRH is released, it causes a hormonal cascade starting with

the subsequent secretion of hGH. Once that hGH is released, exerts various metabolic effects&#8230;and it

triggers the release of IGF‐1, which is now known to exert many of the effects previously attributed

solely to hGH. (1) IGF‐1 is highly anabolic although a large body of contradictory literature exists on the

topic of whether hGH is anabolic per se. Regardless, though I personally feel that enough evidence exists

to show that Lr3IGF‐1 is more potent for building muscle than hGH is (Note: Lr3IGF‐1 is 2‐3x more

potent than regular IGF‐1).

Now, with regards to GH as well as IGF‐1, after they're produced and secreted, they then have the

ability to circulate back to the hypothalamus as well as the pituitary to initiate somatostatin release. As

previously stated, the secretion of somatostatin will complete the negative feedback loop, and decrease

hGH release. Although both hGH as well as IGF‐1 can do this, and have many other overlapping effects,

they seem to be able to produce many divergent effects as well, and individually they would seem to act

in both an autocrine and paracrine fashion (meaning they can apparently affect various cells and their

neighboring cells without it having to enter the actual cell). This is likely how IGF‐1 causes a decrease in

body fat, though there are no IGF‐1 receptors in fat cells. hGH, on the other hand reduces fat through

the hGH receptors found in fat cells. (1) IGF‐1, however, is thought to be the primary

autocrine/paracrine catalyst in myofiber (muscle) growth, also called "myogenesis" (generation of new

muscle tissue).

To understand autocrine/paracrine signaling involved in muscle (myofiber) regeneration and growth, we

can point to the various hypertrophic (growth promoting) effects which appear to be totally modulated

by IGF‐1. When muscle is broken down by training, the destruction of muscle tissue leaves behind

something known as "satellite cells". Those satellite cells are small stem cells located within the muscle

which are then mobilized by IGF‐1 to begin the muscle growth and regeneration process. During this

process of regenerating muscle, myoblasts are formed to replace and hypercompensate for

damaged/destroyed ones, and then they can either fuse with each other to form totally new myofibers

or become incorporated into previously damaged (surviving) myofibers. Ultimately, if more myofibers

are created than were destroyed (by training) new muscle growth is experienced.

IGF‐I and "myogenesis" during compensatory hypertrophy. Increased loading leads to satellite cell

proliferation, differentiation, and fusion. IGF‐I has been shown to stimulate these myogeninc processes

in skeletal muscles. It is postulated that IGF‐I, and/or the loading‐sensitive IGF‐I isoform Mechano

growth factor (MGF), is produced and released by myofibers in response to increased loading or stretch.

The increased local concentration of IGF‐I (MGF) would then stimulate the myogenic processes needed

to drive the hypertrophy response. (Adams J Appl Physiol 93: 1159‐1167, 2002;

doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01264.2001

8750‐7587/02 $)

Though IGF‐1's effects on the creation of new muscle tissue are clear and direct, it would appear that

hGH probably exerts the majority of its anabolic effects on muscular tissues through its ability to

stimulate the secretion of IGF. Although it's also speculated that there could also be an additional (and

direct) effect exerted by hGH on muscle as well, though this has been difficult to prove for scientists.

As we already know, the production of IGF‐1 probably occurs when hGH is first released from the

pituitary (or injected), then travels to the liver and other muscle tissue where it influences the synthesis

and subsequent release of IGF‐1. We know that the newly secreted IGF‐1 then travels in the blood to the

target tissues after being released from the cells that produced it (in the liver, in this case, but also in

muscle tissue when you train).

Although all of this seems promising, and I previously had read about the GH/IGF axis, I just hadn't been

a fan of either hGH or IGF‐1, because of their relatively high cost, compared to other anabolic

compounds. I had also been hearing less than amazing results being reported from some people using

IGF (remember, in my estimation, I now think that those people were using it poorly, as regards timing

and dosing). I've actually been interviewing dozens of bodybuilders and athletes, and trying to figure out

what kind of doses and dosing protocol the most successful use of IGF has been. Now that I've figured

out exactly how to use IGF and other peptides for optimal results, I think that they are really quite

remarkable. Just hang on, because I'm getting around to telling you how to use them&#8230;But first, I need to

go over a bit more about IGF, and how it isn't only produced in the liver.

This is possibly the most important part about production of IGF‐1&#8230;all of the production/secretion of it

isn't actually done in the liver. And this last fact brings up an interesting (and very relevant) point about

IGF&#8230;and that is the idea that it can be locally produced in alternate splices in muscle tissue as a

response to training (2). While liver produced IGF‐1 has several important systemic (total body) effects,

when it is produced locally (in muscle) it has several different physiological functions (but mainly we're

concerned with muscle growth and development, and fat loss).

Lets take a look at what happens when you resistance train, and look at how your body responds

hormonally. As you can see from the following chart, both eccentric as well as concentric movements

will raise IGF‐1 levels, as well as IGF‐1 receptor concentration levels, while also lowering levels of some

IGF binding proteins like IGFBP‐4 (which serves to temporarily deactivate IGF‐1, possibly inhibiting its

actions):

(Chart from: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 280: E383‐E390, 2001; 0193‐1849/01)

Also of note is that skeletal muscle IGF‐I mRNA and protein expression both increase during mechanical

loading (2), thus indicating that the locally produced IGF‐1 is not exactly the same as liver produced

IGF&#8230;nor is the liver the only source of IGF‐I. This is very important to us here. In fact, a review of this

evidence makes it highly unlikely that increases in liver produced IGF‐I are necessary for hypertrophy

and instead, we find a much higher correlation in new muscle mass with locally produced IGF. (3)

This locally produced IGF is extremely likely to cause myogenesis during skeletal muscle hypertrophy by

contributing to at least by three important molecular processes:

1. increased satellite cell activity

2. gene transcription

3. protein translation

Buy IGF‐1 for Research use!

Each of these processes contributes in a different manner to local and general muscle growth. It is highly

likely that IGF‐I, through each of these three processes, directly and significantly contributes to

hypertrophy. So we can see that once IGF‐1 is produced in the muscle, by mechanical stimulation

(resistance training) the gene is actually slightly different than liver produced IGF‐1&#8230;this indicates that

the IGF‐1 gene can actually be "spliced" into different forms, to produce divergent effects on the

hypertrophy response. (4)

So we know that there are different forms of IGF‐1, caused by gene splicing, which have now been

identified to follow resistance training. Basically, this means that different isoforms (forms) of the IGF‐I

gene have been shown to be expressed by muscles when subjected to mechanical stimulation. In other

words, when you lift weights, varying "versions" of the same basic IGF‐1 gene are created out of the IGF‐
​


1 which is secreted. This brings us to the dominant isoform of IGF‐1 which is expressed primarily during

mechanical overload: Mechano Growth Factor, or MGF. (3)

However, before going on, it is important to keep in mind that these isoforms of the human IGF‐1 gene

(some of which are IGF‐1Ea, b, and c) are all very similar to each other and all have the ability to produce

slightly different (though important) effects which aid muscle growth.

However, when examining all of these different isoforms, it would seem that the primary growth factor

responsible for the hypertrophy process is insulin‐like growth factor (IGF‐I) and MGF, or Mechano

Growth Factor (IGF‐1Ec). (7)

Actually, though, even though MGF seems to be the most important isoforms of IGF‐1, there are two

isoforms which appear very relevant to hypertrophy are: IGF‐1Ea (sometimes termed "muscle IGF‐1")

which is actually similar to the IGF‐I produced by the liver, and as already mentioned, IGF‐IEc (termed

mechano‐growth factor and known to bodybuilders and athletes simply as "MGF"). (3) The latter of

those two only appears to be produced by damaged, stretched, or loaded muscle tissue (5‐7), as a

repair/rebuilding mechanism. Although, the actual mechanistic roles of these different isoforms of IGF‐1

as regards muscular hypertrophy are still regarded as quite complex and not well understood, IGF‐1 (and

specifically these isoforms of IGF‐1) could actually be the most important contributor to skeletal muscle

hypertrophy.

Before I go on to my personal preferences on how to use IGF‐1 and MGF, I think I should clearly state

that I feel that the combination of those two (or even either one alone) is far superior to the use of hGH,

for most purposes. In fact, lately I've been getting quite a bit of heat over my recommendations to use a

combination of Lr3IGF‐1 and MGF in lieu of hGH, and I think that at this point, it's not too difficult to

understand why I consider IGF‐1 and MFG to be a very potent combination for muscular growth‐ far

superior to hGH. IGF‐1's superiority to hGh is intuitive at some level, but has also been clearly elucidated

clinically as well. In the following graphs taken from a rodent study comparing IGF‐1 and hGH, a low

dose as well as a high dose of IGF‐1 was shown to be more anabolic than hGH. In comparison to hGH,

IGF‐1 produced an overall greater total protein content within the injected muscle as well as a greater

final weight of the that muscle (called the "Tibialis Anterior" or TA) (9):

So, in comparison (in this study), it seems to be the case that IGF‐1 would be superior to hGH as an

anabolic agent. In some clinical studies, that is not always the case, but in bodybuilders and athletes I've

spoken to, greater results are often seen with IGF‐1 over hGH ‐ and it should be noted that they are

often seen more quickly as well. And while an intact insulin and IGF‐1 Receptor signaling system is

necessary for hGH to produce an anabolic effect (10), an hGH receptor deficiency is not sufficient to stop

IGF‐1 from being anabolic. (11) This is another reason to believe that when you are using hGH, you're

really just hoping that it produces IGF‐1, for an anabolic effect.

There's also another important reason I favor the use of IGF‐1/MGF instead of hGH. Over the past few

decades, hGH has developed quite a reputation for taking awhile (often several weeks) for the user to

start seeing results. In contrast, IGF‐1 often begins to product noticeable results within the first couple

of weeks. When talking to people who have used both, I'm finding that the current trend is leaning

towards IGF‐1 use. At this point I should note that the IGF‐1 use that's most popular (and the kind I

would recommend) is always the Lr3IGF‐1 version.

Although it's a fairly new peptide, recent studies drawing the comparison between IGF‐1 and MGF have

concluded that MGF is even quicker to produce results. (4) Actually, it's been found in rodent studies to

produce both faster and better results with regards to muscle growth, compared to IGF‐1. (4)

Now that I think I've stated my case for IGF and MGF being used instead of hGH, I'll tell you how I

personally have used them successfully‐ and where my dosing protocol comes from. I've been noticing

that the bodybuilders who are getting the best results from both Lr3IGF‐1 as well as MGF are using it

after workouts. So first of all, my recommendation is to inject them after working out. You'll be getting

better results by using them by injecting at this time because after mechanical loading (weight training

with CONcentric and ECCentric loads), your levels of specific IGF‐binding proteins (like IGFBP‐4 are

lower) (12). IGFBP‐4 is a protein which binds to IGF‐1 and inhibits its anabolic effects. As you can see

from the picture below, levels of IGFBP‐4 are lower following both concentric as well as eccentric

movements, than pre‐workout:

Thus, it makes sense that you'll get better results by injecting when levels of IGFBP‐4 are lower than

usual. In addition, at this time (right after a workout), IGF‐1 levels are high (particularly MGF), and I feel

that an additional spike in those levels would aid in the body's ability to induce myogenesis and

therefore hypertrophy. If I'm going to spend the money on IGF‐1 and MGF, I'd rather inject them when

binding protein levels are lowest, and they can have their maximum effect‐ and that means injecting

them after a workout which contains a stretch component, as well as eccentric and concentric loads.

This is why I recommend shooting MGF immediately post workout, when natural levels of it are already

elevated. The addition of extra MGF should push more satellite cells towards the formation of new

muscle tissue, and I firmly believe that maximal benefits from this compound won't be experienced if

it's not used after the muscle has been broken down and overloaded with training. After all, MGF is a

repair factor, and I think it's only logical to conclude that it should be used when muscle repair is going

to (hopefully) be taking place anyway.

Next, I recommend using Lr3IGF‐1 about an hour later&#8230;because at this point, although MGF is still highly

elevated, we can still derive a benefit from adding in some IGF‐1, which will then be spliced

appropriately into the isoforms which are most needed by the body. When we look at both young and

old subjects who are resistance trained, we see that the highest MGF levels correspond with the lowest

IGF‐ 1Ea levels (5):

This is why I think that by introducing an excess of MGF into the body, followed by IGF‐1 which will then

be spliced appropriately, will produce the additional activation of satellite cells, protein translation, and

gene transcription will force the body to produce much more new tissue than if MGF or IGF are used at

any other point during the day, or in a different sequence.

So how much is being used? Well, in talking with bodybuilders and other athletes, I'm finding that the

magic starts with these drugs at about 80‐100mcgs, which is injected into the primary muscle trained in

the preceding workout‐ half going into that muscle on one side of the body, the other half going into the

mirror image of that muscle on the other side. At this point, adequate protein and carbs need to be

ingested, because IGF‐1 is only going to be effective when there is adequate protein in the body to build

new tissue from.(13)

So those are my full recommendations, and reasons behind them. IGF‐1 (especially Lr3IGF‐1) and MGF

are going to be more effective than hGH, for muscle growth, and if you use them in the way I've

outlined, you're going to take advantage of your lowest levels of inhibitory binding proteins (thus

allowing the peptides to exert maximal effects), while giving your body the best possible environment to

create new muscle tissue from your workouts.

So as I said in the beginning of this article, I wasn't the first to jump on the peptide bandwagon‐ but now

that I figured out how to use them, they're becoming an increasingly large (and successful) part of my

anabolic intake. If you're interested in trying them for the first time, or have used them in the past with

less than great results&#8230;give my protocol a try. You won't be disappointed.
​


----------

