# ORAL TREN????



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Anyone used it?

Weekly gains/cycle gains..

Weight loss?

Sides?

Cycle plan?


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

:blink:


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## 29590 (Sep 19, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> Anyone used it?
> 
> Weekly gains/cycle gains..
> 
> ...


If your planning on using it i wouldnt, its very harsh on the body, there are far more safer compounds out there, short term gains will be forgotten over long term health issues.


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm fairly sure tren doesn't come in oral form... it's made from fina pellets?

Could be wrong but fairly sure.


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

Do you mean the 'tren' pro hormones?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Anyone used it?
> 
> Weekly gains/cycle gains..
> 
> ...


well in the UK you can get BSI Mtren 2500mcg/mL. This is an injectable suspension of mtren- the thing is, you can either inject it or DRINK the 1mL of it for the dose, as it is 17-methlated (thats what mtren is methylated-trenbolone).

Personally, I'd still inject it (you use a 'slin pin, and can do it sub-q like peps, or IM without even aspiriating) as you get DIRECT LOCAL site growth (if used in the same muscle group daily for a few months), and also, you miss 1st pass of the liver, as this only happens with drugs that go through the stomach..



cudsyaj said:


> I'm fairly sure tren doesn't come in oral form... it's made from fina pellets?
> 
> Could be wrong but fairly sure.


no mate thats only in the USA as its easy to get the pellets, and hard to get raws.

in the UK you can easily get mtren in powder/tabs or the BSI water based suspension.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Ginger Ben said:


> Do you mean the 'tren' pro hormones?


Its Oral Tren, I believe its not a PH but not 100%..

I know its toxic but 2-3 weeks cnt hurt tht much at 500mcg??


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

Some1 posted a site address on here saying how to make oral tren from finaplix pellets, so its not beyond the realms of possibility. Get it down ya!


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Drinking it? Jeez, be my guest. Can't see that making your tummy feel good.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Its Oral Tren, I believe its not a PH but not 100%..
> 
> I know its toxic but 2-3 weeks cnt hurt tht much at 500mcg??


Look ALL orals are about the SAME toxicity, and here's why:

"...The Chemistry: Steroids and the Liver

by Patrick Arnold, B. Sc.

from Issue No. 1

Oral steroids are considered to be somewhat "toxic" to the liver largely because most of them have an alkyl (methyl or ethyl) group built into the steroid molecule at the 17-alpha position. This changes the 17-beta OH (hydroxyl) from a secondary to an unoxidizable tertiary one, which thwarts the natural hepatic oxidation of the 17-OH group (which, with natural steroids will produce an inert, excreteable 17-keto steroid). This is the major process of metabolic inactivation for androgens. When it's blocked, the liver relies on less efficient, more demanding means of inactivation. Common injectable steroids are formulated to gradually release into the system, where they are hydrolyzed to become a naturally metabolizable secondary 17-beta hydroxyl steroid. That's why common injectable steroids aren't "toxic" to the liver."

from: http://www.medibolics.com/chemist2.htm

Who was Patrick Arnold? only the guy who sold the first pro-hormones in the USA, also developed THG ("the clear") designer steroids that US olympic athletes used to cheat drug tests, he also devloped the "cream" something to fool the drug tests when using injectable test prop... he knows a thing or two..

basically, it doesn't matter what steroids it is, its the 17-methylation that causes the liver stress.

As mtren is always sold in 1500-2500mcg (i.e 1.5m or 2.5mg) tabs/concentrations, it will have LESS liver toxicity taking that, then taking 30mg of anavar.. as you are using 15x as much anavar....


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> well in the UK you can get BSI Mtren 2500mcg/mL. This is an injectable suspension of mtren- the thing is, you can either inject it or DRINK the 1mL of it for the dose, as it is 17-methlated (thats what mtren is methylated-trenbolone).
> 
> Personally, I'd still inject it (you use a 'slin pin, and can do it sub-q like peps, or IM without even aspiriating) as you get DIRECT LOCAL site growth (if used in the same muscle group daily for a few months), and also, you miss 1st pass of the liver, as this only happens with drugs that go through the stomach..
> 
> ...


Last time I heard 'slin pin I heard they are miniture? So your saying I can inject it into any muscle and it will be fine (which muscle would you recommend)? Is there good gains on it as an injectable? And what's the longest u can take it for injectable and what's the longest can take it for if drunk? Bad sides?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Juic3Up said:


> Drinking it? Jeez, be my guest. Can't see that making your tummy feel good.


why? BSI do a water based winny, and dbol as well; they are all drinkable.

apart from the drug suspended in water (think like an asprin) there is a bit of alcohol to keep it sterile (about 3%); how would htis be bad for your stomach???


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Last time I heard 'slin pin I heard they are miniture? So your saying I can inject it into any muscle and it will be fine (which muscle would you recommend)? Is there good gains on it as an injectable? And what's the longest u can take it for injectable and what's the longest can take it for if drunk? Bad sides?


I use a 30gx8mm 0.5ml (combined pin/syringe) so yes tiny needle... you can just pr**k any muscle you want, any time you want. I prefer 1 hour pre-workout 0.5mL in each muscle bilaterally (i.e if wanting to lift biceps- 0.5ml in each bicep). You don't feel the pr**k at all! and its very shallow. The water based drugs to sting going in (you feel this); but the PIP is gone by the end of the workout.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> I use a 30gx8mm 0.5ml (combined pin/syringe) so yes tiny needle... you can just pr**k any muscle you want, any time you want. I prefer 1 hour pre-workout 0.5mL in each muscle bilaterally (i.e if wanting to lift biceps- 0.5ml in each bicep). You don't feel the pr**k at all! and its very shallow. The water based drugs to sting going in (you feel this); but the PIP is gone by the end of the workout.


This is like classical music to my ears. I was planning a 4 week mini blast of mtren-susp-dbol injected right into my muscles pre workout. Daddy likes that very very much.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> This is like classical music to my ears. I was planning a 4 week mini blast of mtren-susp-dbol injected right into my muscles pre workout. Daddy likes that very very much.


have been doing this 4 weeks now- squat went from 150-170kg for reps..

the mtren DS (the mix you mention) is by far my fave.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> have been doing this 4 weeks now- squat went from 150-170kg for reps..
> 
> the mtren DS (the mix you mention) is by far my fave.


I'll start it as soon as I'm done with DNP and start carbing up a little (200-250g carb/day max) for a mini nuke blast to fill up and get my best form in the last 6-7 years


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> I'll start it as soon as I'm done with DNP and start carbing up a little (200-250g carb/day max) for a mini nuke blast to fill up and get my best form in the last 6-7 years


the $hit does look radioactive.. :lol:


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> I use a 30gx8mm 0.5ml (combined pin/syringe) so yes tiny needle... you can just pr**k any muscle you want, any time you want. I prefer 1 hour pre-workout 0.5mL in each muscle bilaterally (i.e if wanting to lift biceps- 0.5ml in each bicep). You don't feel the pr**k at all! and its very shallow. The water based drugs to sting going in (you feel this); but the PIP is gone by the end of the workout.


You've made my day mate, I remember when my dad had diabetis.. Pins r stupidly small.. I think I could bring myself to do this.. How about lenght of cycle and gains? What other water based steroids r there tht will pass through such a small needle? Would I get the same results if I drunk it?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> You've made my day mate, I remember when my dad had diabetis.. Pins r stupidly small.. I think I could bring myself to do this.. How about lenght of cycle and gains? What other water based steroids r there tht will pass through such a small needle? Would I get the same results if I drunk it?


yep, very small pins.

BSI do:

50mg/ml Winstrol

50mg/ml Dbol

100mg/ml Test Suspension

2500mcg/ml mtren (thats 2.5mg per ml)

and my fave:

Mtren DS- 2500mcg mtren, 50mg dbol, 100mg test suspension, per ML.

If you pinned the mtren DS daily (or the test suspension + winny as an example) you could do a cycle where you pin daily.

When you pin these, they DO NOT go via first pass of the liver (so no liver stress compared to the tabs, OR drinking the BSI version).

Also, when you inject even test prop, it does not get absorbed at the injection site- it travels to the liver, and the liver removes the "propionate" ester (same for all esters) then the free test goes into general circulation and works all over.

with the water based methylated AAS, when injected, there is no ester, so they can act AT the injection site FIRST, then they go into general circulation, so there are advantages.

disadvantages? they do sting.

you can run a cycle as long as you would run any cycle.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> yep, very small pins.
> 
> BSI do:
> 
> ...


Ok nice, I've injected test prop before and it strung a tad.. Is it as bad or worse? And with Drinking it.. Will I get full advantages from it??


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Ok nice, I've injected test prop before and it strung a tad.. Is it as bad or worse? And with Drinking it.. Will I get full advantages from it??


it stings worse going in, but its over by the end of your workout- absorbed fast.

If you drink it, then its the same as taking the tab version; injection is more bioavailable- oral is usually 70-85% available, injection- 100%.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> it stings worse going in, but its over by the end of your workout- absorbed fast.
> 
> If you drink it, then its the same as taking the tab version; injection is more bioavailable- oral is usually 70-85% available, injection- 100%.


Ok this may be silly but I dnt knw if I've understood totally.. The injection can I syinge 1ml out or a vial and drink it? Or isit a different substance totally?


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## Covallstar (Dec 16, 2012)

I think geneza do an oral tren I've heard it's meant to be mega toxic though. Why not just jab it?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Ok this may be silly but I dnt knw if I've understood totally.. The injection can I syinge 1ml out or a vial and drink it? Or isit a different substance totally?


yes you can drink it.

What i meant was, whenever you take a drug orally, it is never 100% available once through digestion and the liver. You don't get 100% of the dose (some drugs you do, this is a generalisation).

when you inject the same drug, you get 100% available for absorption- right at the injecttion site.

You cannot dring the Mtren DS (well you can, the mtren would work, and the dbol would, but the test suspension wont). Same is true for the test suspension- its not 17-methylated so cannot be taken orally. the rest can.

if You pin the mtren, you skip the liver and don't stress it; if you drink it, its processed by the liver, but of course will still work as its 17-methylated (same for dbol and winny).


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## britbull (Mar 18, 2004)

Worth a mention M-tren should not be used by newbies at all

Ausbuilt any idea why people have had massive increases in liver values while jabbing m-tren(in oil)??


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Covallstar said:


> I think geneza do an oral tren I've heard it's meant to be mega toxic though. Why not just jab it?


please see my earlier posts- the toxicity is BRO-SCIENCE..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

britbull said:


> Worth a mention M-tren should not be used by newbies at all
> 
> Ausbuilt any idea why people have had massive increases in liver values while jabbing m-tren(in oil)??


 :lol:

did they really? was it mtren alone?

look back at the earier post on WHY orals are toxic- there is NO evidence (in fact its basically impossible) for mtren to raise liver enzymes at the same mg for mg dose than any other 17-methylated oral AAS.


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## britbull (Mar 18, 2004)

Evidence is on this VERY board as it goes, few years old now mind


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

britbull said:


> Evidence is on this VERY board as it goes, few years old now mind


i doubt it was mtren alone; the reason is, of course results/sides are dose-dependent; and the reality is no one does more than 10mg of mtren/day; and frankly that would be no more liver toxic than 10mg of winstrol or anavar; as the toxicity is due to the 17-methylation only; when injected even 17-methylated AAS do not go via 1st pass of the liver:

"...The first-pass effect (also known as first-pass metabolism or presystemic metabolism) is a phenomenon of drug metabolism whereby the concentration of a drug is greatly reduced before it reaches the systemic circulation. It is the fraction of lost drug during the process of absorption which is generally related to the liver and gut wall. Notable drugs that experience a significant first-pass effect are imipramine, morphine, propranolol, buprenorphine, diazepam, midazolam, demerol, cimetidine, and lidocaine.

*After a drug is swallowed, it is absorbed by the digestive system and enters the hepatic portal system. It is carried through the portal vein into the liver before it reaches the rest of the body*. The liver metabolizes many drugs, sometimes to such an extent that only a small amount of active drug emerges from the liver to the rest of the circulatory system. This first pass through the liver thus greatly reduces the bioavailability of the drug.* Alternative routes of administration like suppository, intravenous, intramuscular, inhalational aerosol and sublingual avoid the first-pass effect because they allow drugs to be absorbed directly into the systemic circulation.*

The four primary systems that affect the first pass effect of a drug are the enzymes of the gastrointestinal lumen, gut wall enzymes, bacterial enzymes, and hepatic enzymes.

In drug design, drug candidates may have good druglikeness but fail on first-pass metabolism, because it is biochemically selective.

The first pass effect can also be exploited for a beneficial effect. Some prodrugs, for example codeine (methylmorphine, inactive) are converted from an inactive form to the pharmacologically active form (morphine proper) by first pass metabolism (in this case, demethylation)."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pass_effect

so please, if the mtren is either in oil or water, and injected, it didn't raise liver enzymes mate, iT MISSES first pass...

Once again complete and utter bro-science; this is true regardless of which AAS.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

britbull said:


> Evidence is on this VERY board as it goes, few years old now mind


And what makes you think that this board is broscience-free?


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

I swallowed 20mg Dbol. An hour later I had my bloods done (Renal/LFT/FBC). FYI I am also on 200mg ED of Cyclosporin which is stressy on the Liver (and why I have these tests every 3 months)

Rang up a few days later, and the doc's secretary wouldn't give me exact values and wanted me to pay for a printout. However she did say they were all well within range. I asked her to compare this test to my other tests and after grumbling for about 15 mins she said the values were all about the same as before.

So even with tabs I think the toxicity is well overhyped.


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## britbull (Mar 18, 2004)

My comments were based on blood results from probably either the 1st or 2nd most respected member on this board and held in very high regard throughout this game.

Anyone remember who were the 1st or 2nd lab to mtren to the uk market???


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

britbull said:


> My comments were based on blood results from probably either the 1st or 2nd most respected member on this board and held in very high regard throughout this game.
> 
> Anyone remember who were the 1st or 2nd lab to mtren to the uk market???


someone may be respected, and may have elevated enzymes, but saying injected mtren raised liver enzymes dangerously, is like saying the world is flat... it may look that way out the window, but science says that's impossible...


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## britbull (Mar 18, 2004)

Clearly going round in circles here

Are you so blinkered that you have never seen anyone defy science in any area??


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

britbull said:


> Clearly going round in circles here
> 
> Are you so blinkered that you have never seen anyone defy science in any area??


since it's christmas, I guess the baby jesus, and the virgin mary did defy science...


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

ausbuilt said:


> Look ALL orals are about the SAME toxicity, and here's why:
> 
> "...The Chemistry: Steroids and the Liver
> 
> ...


Strictly speaking not entirely true. The same Patrick Arnold has one more than one occasion stated that M1T is a very dangerous drug and he does not know why anyone would use it, the danger being its hepatoxicity. And this is generally run at doses of 5-20mg a day, far less than some other orals.

Another exception to the rule is Dienolone and its 'Tren' PH cousin Dienedione, both of which despite being non-methylated have been shown to be hepatoxic.

I still agree with most of what you have said though.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

The only way to defy science is through more accurate and more advanced science. There's no limit to what can be achieved.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

A tad off subject lads? Ha so BSI MTren is the one I want if I want to drink it aus?


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> A tad off subject lads? Ha so BSI MTren is the one I want if I want to drink it aus?


Spot inject it, it's muuuuuch better.


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## tuna_man (Nov 24, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> Look ALL orals are about the SAME toxicity, and here's why:
> 
> "...The Chemistry: Steroids and the Liver
> 
> ...


Not too sure that all steroids are equally toxic on an mg for mg basis mate.

Toxicity is based on how strong an androgen an oral steroid is. Stronger oral androgens have a much higher affinity for androgen receptors, will be much stronger in their effects on Hepatic Lipase, and will also have much higher affinity for the bile transporters in the liver.

Pat arnolds bit simply says why orals are toxic, but nowhere does he say all orals are equally toxic mg for mg.

This is like saying that fentanyl and morphine are both opiates acting on mu opiod receptors, so 1mg of morphine causes the same anaesthesia as 1mg of fentanyl. In actual fact fentanyl is much stronger, as it has much higher affinity for the receptor. 1mg fentanyl will also cause much more respiratory depression than 1mg morphine.

And common sense tells us that 100mg of mtren or even mibolerone is definitely less safe than 100mg of anavar for the liver.


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## tuna_man (Nov 24, 2009)

But I definitely agree that toxicity is blown way out of proportion. Even doctors put anaemic women on 150mg+ of anadrol for many months and their livers were fine


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

tuna_man said:


> But I definitely agree that toxicity is blown way out of proportion. Even doctors put anaemic women on 150mg+ of anadrol for many months and their livers were fine


*shudders*


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## tuna_man (Nov 24, 2009)

TheMeatWagon said:


> *shudders*


The prescribing info calls for 1-5mg per kg bodyweight for aplastic anaemia.

I definitely dont want this sort of advice to promote unhealthy and macho attitudes to oral steroids, as some people will have unknown underlying liver issues that will come to the surface, and you will also get your burger donner kebab bicep curl bench press idiots who go out on the p1ss while on orals, but for us healthy responsible BBers, i think we have little to worry about from short intermittent uses of oral steroids.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

tuna_man said:


> The prescribing info calls for 1-5mg per kg bodyweight for aplastic anaemia.
> 
> I definitely dont want this sort of advice to promote unhealthy and macho attitudes to oral steroids, as some people will have unknown underlying liver issues that will come to the surface, and you will also get your burger donner kebab bicep curl bench press idiots who go out on the p1ss while on orals, but for us healthy responsible BBers, i think we have little to worry about from short intermittent uses of oral steroids.


TBH I shuddered because I had a very bad response to Anadrol, and the sole thought of running it for one year made my nuts shrink to nothingness


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2013)

TheMeatWagon said:


> TBH I shuddered because I had a very bad response to Anadrol, and the sole thought of running it for one year made my nuts shrink to nothingness


 Imagine how small her nuts must have been


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

RS86 said:


> Imagine how small her nuts must have been


And big her bangers got 

I might try to get BSI MTREN and BSI Winnie.. And drink both.. What would you recommend a good doseage? Will probs use DNP with it


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> A tad off subject lads? Ha so BSI MTren is the one I want if I want to drink it aus?


you can drink it, but see below



TheMeatWagon said:


> Spot inject it, it's muuuuuch better.


exactly


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> And big her bangers got
> 
> I might try to get BSI MTREN and BSI Winnie.. And drink both.. What would you recommend a good doseage? Will probs use DNP with it


look really, but winny tabs; its cheaper to get 100mg/day via tabs than 2ml of winny injectable; however the injectable would be more effective IF injected..

the mtren- 1-2ml/day


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> you can drink it, but see below
> 
> exactly


You said it strings and reason I don't like pinning is coz my dad had chemotherapy and for months his arms were black and blue and he hated it n ever since I cnt go near it


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> look really, but winny tabs; its cheaper to get 100mg/day via tabs than 2ml of winny injectable; however the injectable would be more effective IF injected..
> 
> the mtren- 1-2ml/day


Ok mtren aromatise or not?

I may just stick to 2ml of mtren a day.. How long would it take to kick in? Is it a short easter?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

tuna_man said:


> Not too sure that all steroids are equally toxic on an mg for mg basis mate.
> 
> Toxicity is based on how strong an androgen an oral steroid is. Stronger oral androgens have a much higher affinity for androgen receptors, will be much stronger in their effects on Hepatic Lipase, and will also have much higher affinity for the bile transporters in the liver.
> 
> ...


agreed; I did over simplify, not that all orals are exactly the same mg for mg, but that while there is variation, i've yet to come across any proof of one compound being "super" hepatoxic...



tuna_man said:


> But I definitely agree that toxicity is blown way out of proportion. Even doctors put anaemic women on 150mg+ of anadrol for many months and their livers were fine


exactly; and for years all the steroid sites where saying oxys no more than 4-6 weeks, no more than 100mg etc..



tuna_man said:


> The prescribing info calls for 1-5mg per kg bodyweight for aplastic anaemia.
> 
> I definitely dont want this sort of advice to promote unhealthy and macho attitudes to oral steroids, as some people will have unknown underlying liver issues that will come to the surface, and you will also get your burger donner kebab bicep curl bench press idiots who go out on the p1ss while on orals, but for us healthy responsible BBers, i think we have little to worry about from short intermittent uses of oral steroids.


good post; while I'm well known for doing loads of AAS; i simply haven't had the HULK like results you might think, but on the other hand, neither have I had the sides most would expect on 1/4 my doses...

If you're unlucky, paracetamol at the recommended dose can stress your liver...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Ok mtren aromatise or not?
> 
> I may just stick to 2ml of mtren a day.. How long would it take to kick in? Is it a short easter?


its just trenbolone thats been methylated to survive oral administration (i.e methylated) once past the liver its just trenbolone, nothing fancy; so no it doesnt aromatise.

mate, you fundamentally misunderstand this- there IS NO ESTER.. its the same as the oral tab.. just powdered and mixed with water.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Wardy33 said:


> Anyone used it?
> 
> Weekly gains/cycle gains..
> 
> ...


ROHM do it, i havent tried it but know two guys that have and they both said minimal sides, amazing strength gains.


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## tuna_man (Nov 24, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> mate, you fundamentally misunderstand this- there IS NO ESTER..


Could help but chuckle at this ! reps for making me laugh despite the androgens in me


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> You said it strings and reason I don't like pinning is coz my dad had chemotherapy and for months his arms were black and blue and he hated it n ever since I cnt go near it


With all the due respect, a course of steroid and a course of chemotherapy are* quite different beasts.*


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> its just trenbolone thats been methylated to survive oral administration (i.e methylated) once past the liver its just trenbolone, nothing fancy; so no it doesnt aromatise.
> 
> mate, you fundamentally misunderstand this- there IS NO ESTER.. its the same as the oral tab.. just powdered and mixed with water.


 :whistling: my bad! lol..

im gonna get BSI MTren and get a slin pin..

I will try it and if i can handle it mentally then ill carry on, if not ill drink it.. wimp :thumb:


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Mars said:


> ROHM do it, i havent tried it but know two guys that have and they both said minimal sides, amazing strength gains.


Orally or injected?


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> With all the due respect, a course of steroid and a course of chemotherapy are* quite different beasts.*


i get that but i cant do it.. mental block is all can think..

would have to get the MRS to inject it tbf like before..


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Wardy33 said:


> Orally or injected?


Whats your thread title? :lol:


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Mars said:


> Whats your thread title? :lol:


fair point :tongue:

juice yeah? not a ph tab?


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> i get that but i cant do it.. mental block is all can think..
> 
> would have to get the MRS to inject it tbf like before..


Now I understand. Sorry if I dug into painful memories.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Wardy33 said:


> fair point :tongue:
> 
> juice yeah? not a ph tab?


I'll start again lol.

ROHM do an oral tren tab. It's called methyl MST.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Now I understand. Sorry if I dug into painful memories.


na its fine mate.. just giving the reason i cant do it lol


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Mars said:


> I'll start again lol.
> 
> ROHM do an oral tren tab. It's called methyl MST.


im new to this kinda stuff lol


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> look really, but winny tabs; its cheaper to get 100mg/day via tabs than 2ml of winny injectable; however the injectable would be more effective IF injected..
> 
> the mtren- 1-2ml/day


as i am trying to lean out.. would i be better off with the blend of test/mtren/dbol or just tren? as the dbol will aromatise no?


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> as i am trying to lean out.. would i be better off with the blend of test/mtren/dbol or just tren? as the dbol will aromatise no?


don't worry too much about aromatisation, it's something you can see if it's there or not only under say 5% bf...

Tren by itself is not advisable I find the mix of prop tren and mast an excellent solution, whether you want to bulk up or trim down. As you probably know it's all up to the diet and CV.


----------



## Englishman (Oct 4, 2012)

Enjoyed this thread, learnt something new and had a laugh as well.

Cheers lads! :thumb:


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> don't worry too much about aromatisation, it's something you can see if it's there or not only under say 5% bf...
> 
> Tren by itself is not advisable I find the mix of prop tren and mast an excellent solution, whether you want to bulk up or trim down. As you probably know it's all up to the diet and CV.


I like the look of One-Rip 200, not sure if its waterbased..


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> I like the look of One-Rip 200, not sure if its waterbased..


I don't know it, but if it's prop, tren a mast based it is most likely oil based.

I'm on Fuerza Labs Super Rip 240 at the moment, very, very good stuff.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> I don't know it, but if it's prop, tren a mast based it is most likely oil based.
> 
> I'm on Fuerza Labs Super Rip 240 at the moment, very, very good stuff.


only reason im gonna TRY jab is coz bsi is a good company ive read and its waterbased.. probs gonna go for the MTren DS


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> only reason im gonna TRY jab is coz bsi is a good company ive read and its waterbased.. probs gonna go for the MTren DS


you changed your morals in less than an hour?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> only reason im gonna TRY jab is coz bsi is a good company ive read and its waterbased.. probs gonna go for the MTren DS


I'm gonna try the mtren-susp-dbol mix next month when it'll be fillup time after some massive fat loss im going through now.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

kingdale said:


> you changed your morals in less than an hour?


I asked for help, I have been helped and given good advice..

I need to try and get over this mental fear of needles so I'm gonna TRY as I stated..


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> I asked for help, I have been helped and given good advice..
> 
> I need to try and get over this mental fear of needles so I'm gonna TRY as I stated..


Just pin your bum, or any place your eyes cannot directly see. You will be ok!


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Just pin your bum, or any place your eyes cannot directly see. You will be ok!


But will a slin pin get in enough to discharge into the muscle in the bum??


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> But will a slin pin get in enough to discharge into the muscle in the bum??


It won't. Use a normal one and oil based compounds. Just do it far away from your sight.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> It won't. Use a normal one and oil based compounds. Just do it far away from your sight.


Before when my mrs pinned me.. It was in quad so I cud see everythink..

I'm worried if I'm not looking, she does it, it hurts n I jump or tense n it snap the needle lol


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> Before when my mrs pinned me.. It was in quad so I cud see everythink..
> 
> I'm worried if I'm not looking, she does it, it hurts n I jump or tense n it snap the needle lol


Then go natty.. Why torture yourself? Nothing wrong with being a kickass natty bb.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Then go natty.. Why torture yourself? Nothing wrong with being a kickass natty bb.


Yeah that's true, just so much harder and I wanted to hit a cycle to boost me up then go nat from then.. But I supose its just the same hard work as using juice just without the juice.. LOL! No point doing just winnie tbh, don't keep much or the leaness for long(myself) is why was lookin at oral tren.. lol.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> I like the look of One-Rip 200, not sure if its waterbased..


no mate the water based ones are the ones i listed before ONLY:

winny

dbol

mtren

because they are simply the oral version, powdered finer, and mixed with water (they never dissolve; hence its a suspension).

the only "non" oral that's water based:

test suspension (and you can get these from many firms, even pharma).

I like the mtren DS as it has mtren, dbol and test suspension, and its water based, can be pinned pre-workout or daily using a SLIN PIN only... you don't even feel the actual jab (30gx8mm needle); but you will feel the liquid "burn" as it goes into your muscle.

water based shots (no more than 0.5ml in each shot) do not to be "deep" in the muscle; in fact they can be shot sub-q in the stomach fat, just like 'slin (and this still misses the liver).


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> no mate the water based ones are the ones i listed before ONLY:
> 
> winny
> 
> ...


Stomach fat pinned I've seen my dad do when he had diabetis.. Don't look too hard.. So I put just the end of the needle in and or just half way and inject?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Wardy33 said:


> Stomach fat pinned I've seen my dad do when he had diabetis.. Don't look too hard.. So I put just the end of the needle in and or just half way and inject?


mate you just pinch the fat and put the needle all the way in- 30gx8mm is my recommendation (8mm long needle mate, its so small it must go all the way in).

to fair, it actually hurts less if you pin it in a muscle- ONLY with the 'slin pin and water based gear, you cna just literally jab, and push the plunger slowly all the way in; no need to check for being in a vein or anything. super easy, stings less than sub-q; but both are easy and work well.


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> im new to this kinda stuff lol


you really want to be going straight for the strong stuff why not a simple test cycle to begin with??


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Its called Methyltrienolone.

And the doses orally are between 400-800 micrograms, Aus, you and your doses:lol:

Be careful with this one guys, Tiny Tom used this before, shoot him a PM for what his doses were.

I would think the oral application would work better than the injection.

Steroid experts William Llewellyn and Patrick Arnold have each called methyltrienolone one of the "most powerful" anabolic steroids ever created. It is also one of the most hepatotoxic androgens ever produced. Originally developed by Roussell-UCLAF during the 1960s, the hepatoxicity of Metribolone prevented its commercial release. Bill Roberts likened the toxicity of methyltrienolone to that of taking high dosages of Anadrol combined with high dosages of Halotestin concurrently.


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> have been doing this 4 weeks now- squat went from 150-170kg for reps..
> 
> the mtren DS (the mix you mention) is by far my fave.


started dbol, test and tren squat has went from 140x12, to 150x12, to 160x12 in a matter of 12 days lol. enjoyable.


----------



## imabigguy (Oct 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> mate you just pinch the fat and put the needle all the way in- 30gx8mm is my recommendation (8mm long needle mate, its so small it must go all the way in).
> 
> to fair, it actually hurts less if you pin it in a muscle- ONLY with the 'slin pin and water based gear, you cna just literally jab, and push the plunger slowly all the way in; no need to check for being in a vein or anything. super easy, stings less than sub-q; but both are easy and work well.


Where sells 8mm needles? cant seem to see on medisave or sms, could you use the 0.5mm pins to pin m-tren or simply too small? i have 1inch oranges i suppose i could use them.


----------



## Englishman (Oct 4, 2012)

These do 3/4 inch needles:

http://www.exchangesupplies.org


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

Metribolone (methyltrienolone)

Androgenic 6,000-7,000

Anabolic 12,000-30,000

Standard Methyltestosterone (oral)

Chemical Names 17alpha-methyl-17betahydroxyestra-4,9,11-triene-3-one 17alpha-methyl-trenbolone

Estrogenic Activity none

Progestational Activity no data available

Description:

Methyltrienolone is one of the strongest oral anabolic steroids ever produced. This agent is a derivative of trenbolone (trienolone), which has been c-17 alpha alkylated to allow for oral administration.This modification has created a steroid that is significantly stronger than its non-methylated cousin. Its potency has been measured to be anywhere from 120-300 times greater than that of methyltestosterone, with greater dissociation between anabolic and androgenic effects.625 626 Milligram for milligram methyltrienolone is a more active steroid than any agent sold on the commercial market, requiring doses as little as .5-1 milligram per day to notice a strong anabolic effect. Its potency is only matched by its relative toxicity, however, which has limited its modern use to that of laboratory research only.

History:

Methyltrienolone was first described in 1965.627 It was immediately identified as an extremely potent anabolic agent, far more potent than the commercially available agents of the time. In spite of its high relative activity, however, methyltrienolone has seen very limited use in humans. It was used clinically during the late 1960's and early '70's, most notably in the treatment of advanced breast cancer. Here, its exceedingly strong anabolic/androgenic action helps the drug counter the local effects of endogenous estrogens, lending it some efficacy for slowing or even regressing tumor growth. Such application was not long lived, however, as more realistic evaluations of the drug's toxicity soon led to its abandonment in human medicine.

By the mid-1970's, methyltrienolone was becoming an accepted standard in non-human research studies, particularly those pertaining to the study of the androgen receptor activity. For this purpose the agent is very well suited. Its sheer potency and resistance to serum-binding proteins makes it an excellent in-vitro receptor-binding standard to compare other agents to. Being so resistant to metabolism, active methyltrienolone metabolites are also not going to greatly interfere with the results of most experiments. Body tissues can metabolize most steroids fairly easily, which means that even incubation studies can be complicated with the question of what is causing a particular effect, the steroid or one of its unidentified metabolites. This is much less of an issue with methyltrienolone. Today, methyltrienolone remains an agent of research use only.

How Supplied:

Methyltrienolone is not available as a commercial agent.

Structural Characteristics:

Methyltrienolone is a modified form of nandrolone. It differs by: 1) the addition of a methyl group at carbon 17alpha to protect the hormone during oral administration and 2) the introduction of double bonds at carbons 9 and 11, which increases its binding affinity and slows its metabolism. The resulting steroid is significantly more potent than its nandrolone base, and displays a much longer half-life and lower affinity for serum-binding proteins in comparison. Methyltrienolone chemically differs from trenbolone only by the addition of a methyl group at c-17. This alteration changes the activity of methyltrienolone considerably, however, such that this agent should not simply be considered an oral form of trenbolone.

Administration (General):

Studies have shown that taking an oral anabolic steroid with food may decrease its bioavailability.630 This is caused by the fat-soluble nature of steroid hormones, which can allow some of the drug to dissolve with undigested dietary fat, reducing its absorption from the gastrointestinal tract. For maximum utilization, methyltrienolone should be taken on an empty stomach.

Administration (Men):

Methyltrienolone is no longer used in clinical medicine due to an unacceptable level of hepatotoxicity.This agent is generally not recommended for physique-or performance-enhancing purposes for the same reason. Those absolutely insisting on its use need to take its level of liver toxicity very seriously. At the very least, routine blood tests should be conducted to ensure the agent is not imparting damage. Drug duration should also be very limited, preferably to 4 weeks of use or less. The relative potency of methyltrienolone is extremely high, requiring doses as little as .5 milligram per day. Its effective and tolerable range is usually considered to be .5 to 2mg per day. Dianabol-type doses of 20-30 mg daily are completely unthinkable, and should never be attempted. Again, this is an extremely toxic steroid, and all good advice would say to avoid it. Anyone of the many commercially available steroids would be much safer choices.

Administration (Women):

Methyltrienolone is no longer used in clinical medicine due to an unacceptable level of hepatotoxicity.This agent is not recommended for women for physique-or performance-enhancing purposes due to its extremely strong toxicity and tendency to produce virilizing side effects.

Reference:

Llewellyn's W. (2009). Anabolics (9th ed), Metribolone methyltrienolone(pp. 305-307): Jupiter, FL: Molecular Nutrition


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

Geneza do an oral Tren at 250mcg per tab. Not a common lab in the UK though.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

DrRinse said:


> Geneza do an oral Tren at 250mcg per tab. Not a common lab in the UK though.


Yeah I've looked for it lol


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Its called Methyltrienolone.
> 
> And the doses orally are between 400-800 micrograms, Aus, you and your doses:lol:
> 
> ...


Sweet, ill pester him for some info


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Here lads, this has decided it, I will do 28 days, starting first 2 weeks at 500mcg and the rest at 1mg.. Read the post OR just page 2 and check out Nines pics of a 18 days

On Oral Tren.. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?431355-Oral-Tren-(methyltrienolone)-Daily-Dosage


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> Here lads, this has decided it, I will do 28 days, starting first 2 weeks at 500mcg and the rest at 1mg.. Read the post OR just page 2 and check out Nines pics of a 18 days
> 
> On Oral Tren.. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?431355-Oral-Tren-(methyltrienolone)-Daily-Dosage


Without testosterone? Nice, say bye bye to your balls the day before you start the cycle.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Without testosterone? Nice, say bye bye to your balls the day before you start the cycle.


Why can't I do it without test?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> Why can't I do it without test?


New around her aren't you? 

Every AAS will shut your hormonal production down, completely. There are times that it will never be the same again, especially when you deal with strong stuff. Adding synthetic testosterone to the cycle is a MUST, because your body will have a t least a valid surrogate of what it's missing. Linp willy and impotence are just a small part of it, you can have permanent ligament problems and inability to process triglicerids in your system, among the many other things.

So my question is this: is your desire to get bigger (do not hate me for saying this but you look like you can still do a lot of work as a natty, no offence at all) worth all that? Is your fear of needles so worth giving up your health? Think about it, as an adult you have the right to even point a gun to your temple and pull the trigger, just ask yourself if that is exactly what you want.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2013)

why do you feel the need to use what is considered probably the strongest androgen with the most chance of bad sides? when (and im being honest-not meaning to cause offence) looking at your avi a simple 600mg test e cycle would give you good gains.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> New around her aren't you?
> 
> Every AAS will shut your hormonal production down, completely. There are times that it will never be the same again, especially when you deal with strong stuff. Adding synthetic testosterone to the cycle is a MUST, because your body will have a t least a valid surrogate of what it's missing. Linp willy and impotence are just a small part of it, you can have permanent ligament problems and inability to process triglicerids in your system, among the many other things.
> 
> So my question is this: is your desire to get bigger (do not hate me for saying this but you look like you can still do a lot of work as a natty, no offence at all) worth all that? Is your fear of needles so worth giving up your health? Think about it, as an adult you have the right to even point a gun to your temple and pull the trigger, just ask yourself if that is exactly what you want.


I don't know if I'm honest with you..

I know I can do a lot of work naturally but I was thinking if I can JUST DRINK something to help A LOT then why not? But don't seem to be this easy lol.. If I could take MTren on its own I would defo do it for 3 weeks.. Just to loose some quick BF and lean up a tad, strenght don't bother me as I'm strong enough for my size as I'm progressing.. Its just the curiosity tbh..


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hackskii said:


> Its called Methyltrienolone.
> 
> And the doses orally are between 400-800 micrograms, Aus, you and your doses:lol:
> 
> ...


However, if you inject mtren (like the BSI water based one), then you miss the 1st pass of the liver, and you have next to no hepatic load; no brainer in my books...



imabigguy said:


> Where sells 8mm needles? cant seem to see on medisave or sms, could you use the 0.5mm pins to pin m-tren or simply too small? i have 1inch oranges i suppose i could use them.


I use the same pins for GH/Peps and the BSI waters:

http://www.medisave.co.uk/bd-microfine-05ml-insulin-syringe-030mm-30g-8mm-x-100-p-101038.html


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> However, if you inject mtren (like the BSI water based one), then you miss the 1st pass of the liver, and you have next to no hepatic load; no brainer in my books...
> 
> I use the same pins for GH/Peps and the BSI waters:
> 
> http://www.medisave.co.uk/bd-microfine-05ml-insulin-syringe-030mm-30g-8mm-x-100-p-101038.html


if I drink the MTren DS.. Ill get the Tren and Dbol? What's worst that could happen if I run it for 3 weeks at 1mg/ed without anything else.. Other than a high dose of Milk Thistle..


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> if I drink the MTren DS.. Ill get the Tren and Dbol? What's worst that could happen if I run it for 3 weeks at 1mg/ed without anything else.. Other than a high dose of Milk Thistle..


milk thistle has been proven waste of time if i recall rightly

once again ill ask why not a simple test cycle for first go

really imo your not going to get the gains you could from a simple SAFE test cycle, im not saying m tren is not safe at all just reall not needed at your level what so ever

here come the flames lol


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Rick89 said:


> milk thistle has been proven waste of time if i recall rightly
> 
> once again ill ask why not a simple test cycle for first go
> 
> ...


I've done a Test prop cycle before.. Reason I was first interested in mtren is the drinkable fact.. Can't I take another tablet to replace test?


----------



## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> However, if you inject mtren (like the BSI water based one), then you miss the 1st pass of the liver, and you have next to no hepatic load; no brainer in my books...


I understand the 1st pass/2nd pass etc, but hasn't winstrol also been found to be hepatoxic when injected?

I was trying to find a study on that.. no luck yet.


----------



## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> I've done a Test prop cycle before.. Reason I was first interested in mtren is the drinkable fact.. Can't I take another tablet to replace test?


I know JD Legend is bringing out both test and tren as transdermals


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> I've done a Test prop cycle before.. Reason I was first interested in mtren is the drinkable fact.. Can't I take another tablet to replace test?


ok my bad didnt see that

m tren for 2nd cycle is fine then lol :whistling:

if youve jabbed before keep jabbing


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Rick89 said:


> ok my bad didnt see that
> 
> m tren for 2nd cycle is fine then lol :whistling:
> 
> if youve jabbed before keep jabbing


If u read up the post it says I cnt jab due to past experiences..


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> If u read up the post it says I cnt jab due to past experiences..


i saw that but then you said youve done a prop cycle??

i have read all the posts of your throughout mate


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Rick89 said:


> i saw that but then you said youve done a prop cycle??
> 
> i have read all the posts of your throughout mate


Ok so I want oral lol I dnt wna jab bud


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> Ok so I want oral lol I dnt wna jab bud


ok fair enough

why not a simple dbol/oxy/anavar course mate rather than something fancy like mtren (not slating just curious)

what are you goals from the cycle ?


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> However, if you inject mtren (like the BSI water based one), then you miss the 1st pass of the liver, and you have next to no hepatic load; no brainer in my books...


And this is from the guy who thinks nothing of munching sh1t loads of orals because he's forever posting about how much bollox is posted about hepatotoxicity from orals :whistling: .


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Rick89 said:


> ok fair enough
> 
> why not a simple dbol/oxy/anavar course mate rather than something fancy like mtren (not slating just curious)
> 
> what are you goals from the cycle ?


I used to be 17 stone. DBOL puts fat on me like noones business.. Oxy wud be same and anavar near me is so expensive I could pay for a months HGH and have my supplier jab it for me LOL! MTren gives great results and I wanna try it, curiousity killed the cat. Pun intended


----------



## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> I used to be 17 stone. DBOL puts fat on me like noones business.. Oxy wud be same and anavar near me is so expensive I could pay for a months HGH and have my supplier jab it for me LOL! MTren gives great results and I wanna try it, curiousity killed the cat. Pun intended


no drug will put fat on you mate not poss, crap food will on dbol though but more likely holding water ,

fair enough


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

Rick89 said:


> no drug will put fat on you mate not poss, crap food will on dbol though but more likely holding water ,
> 
> fair enough


Would dbol be a good test replacement though to run aside mtren


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ausbuilt said:


> However, if you inject mtren (like the BSI water based one), then you miss the 1st pass of the liver, and you have next to no hepatic load; no brainer in my books...


Well, perhaps, but you defeat the purpose of an oral delivery system of tren.

Which by the way orals tend to work better than injectables, dbol, winstrol, all come to mind here.

Oral steroids, and their injectable steroids do not act the same.

I have no doubt the oral delivery would be far far better due to stressing the liver and the potential for bumping up IGF-1.

Running a higher dose because you dont stress the liver wont give you better results.

If you don't believe me, do the oral versions at 750mcg a day and tell me otherwise.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wardy33 said:


> Would dbol be a good test replacement though to run aside mtren


Both?


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Both?


Someone said I need a replacement Testosterone as mine will be shut down, which I understand but I want to know if DBOL wud do this job or wud I need Methyl-Test ?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

OP again no offence, you are very confused. I rest my case at this point, I suggest you to do the same until you have clearer ideas of what you are doing. Best of luc mate, really.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> OP again no offence, you are very confused. I rest my case at this point, I suggest you to do the same until you have clearer ideas of what you are doing. Best of luc mate, really.


I'm just trying to understand what I'm being told?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> I'm just trying to understand what I'm being told?


Which is a good thing but you are just scraping the surface of it. I suggest you to keep researching for a few more months before putting in your body dangerous substances. Trust me, you have only to lose from this.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Which is a good thing but you are just scraping the surface of it. I suggest you to keep researching for a few more months before putting in your body dangerous substances. Trust me, you have only to lose from this.


The only thing I need to know at the moment is if there is a Oral taken Testosterone and/or if Dbol would work as this substitute


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Whatever anyone else with their bro science can tell you, there is only one truth:

- AAS mess up your system, so you must know what you are doing.

- Amateur PCT make people impotent for the rest of their lives and destroy their gains.

- Testosterone is and will always be the base of every AAS cycle. Whoever denies this is an ignorant goat.

- Do not underestimate training as a natural: only when you can grow as a natural you can grow on steroids, all the rest is bollox

- If you deal with AAS, you must let go of your fear of needles, another fact you cannot leave out of the equation

- Oral solutions are nice when you do it with a lady but with AAS they bring more trouble than else

- All steroids aid your growth, they don't generate it

- No AAS int he world burns fat

Keep this in mind and be free


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> The only thing I need to know at the moment is if there is a Oral taken Testosterone and/or if Dbol would work as this substitute


There is no oral testosterone, because the way it chemically is, will be destroyed in the liver. There is Andriol, but it's a pile of sh1t when it comes to bodybuilding, useless.

Dianabol is derivative of testosterone like all other AAS on the market. It will not replace it and will mimic only certain functions of it. Which is the reason why it will have a horrendous impact on your health if taken by itself. YOu'll be depriving your system of a natural hormone and replacing it with an incomplete version of it.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Whatever anyone else with their bro science can tell you, there is only one truth:
> 
> - AAS mess up your system, so you must know what you are doing.
> 
> ...


lol ok good advice, still not what I wanted to know  nevermind


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> lol ok good advice, still not what I wanted to know  nevermind


I answered your questions as well. You are too much in a hurry, and this is not good when researching on potentially harmful chemicals.

Again, broscience =/= science. Follow only the latter.


----------



## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

I was going to type a massive post but got caught on the phone. Basically @TheMeatWagon covered everything I was going to say and more.

Only other thing I will mention is look into using HCG throughout your cycle to keep the balls in check and aid recovery. I'm only just on my first cycle now but I have done a sh1tload of reading and you cant deny the importance of making this as simple as possible to reover.


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> I answered your questions as well. You are too much in a hurry, and this is not good when researching on potentially harmful chemicals.
> 
> Again, broscience =/= science. Follow only the latter.


I cannot get the gear for a while so I'm not in a rush.. I'm trying to understand which substances will work together well and keep my test levels up whilst on the mtren to not cause to bad of sides


----------



## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hongman said:


> I was going to type a massive post but got caught on the phone. Basically @TheMeatWagon covered everything I was going to say and more.
> 
> Only other thing I will mention is look into using HCG throughout your cycle to keep the balls in check and aid recovery. I'm only just on my first cycle now but I have done a sh1tload of reading and you cant deny the importance of making this as simple as possible to reover.


Ok hcg I will read into.. What could u suggest ORALLY to take with MTren?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> Ok hcg I will read into.. What could u suggest ORALLY to take with MTren?


*THERE IS NO ORAL TESTOSTERONE *


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

Nothing.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> *THERE IS NO ORAL TESTOSTERONE *


That's the more straight forward answer you've given LOL.. So hcg will help aid any ball probs?


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

From the HCG sticky:

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.

When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body's natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> That's the more straight forward answer you've given LOL.. So hcg will help aid any ball probs?


*NO.*


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hongman said:


> From the HCG sticky:
> 
> Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
> 
> ...


So its injectable?


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

@TheMeatWagon - care to explain? I am learning too.

Is it not proven that 1000IU shot weekly will help towards keeping balls working, so when you come off they can start producing normal amounts of test straight away, and help save crashing so to speak?


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> So its injectable?


Yes, sub-q with slin.

Why cant you jab btw? Fear or other reason?


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

hongman said:


> @TheMeatWagon - care to explain? I am learning too.
> 
> Is it not proven that 1000IU shot weekly will help towards keeping balls working, so when you come off they can start producing normal amounts of test straight away, and help save crashing so to speak?


*HCG DOES NOT REPLACE TESTOSTERONE*


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

I never said it did?


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hongman said:


> Yes, sub-q with slin.
> 
> Why cant you jab btw? Fear or other reason?


Dad had chemo and ever since I've been petrified..


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> *HCG DOES NOT REPLACE TESTOSTERONE*


Lol y u gettin vexed for


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wardy33 said:


> Someone said I need a replacement Testosterone as mine will be shut down, which I understand but I want to know if DBOL wud do this job or wud I need Methyl-Test ?


Not a good idea, you would already be stressing the liver from one of the strongest and harshest steroids ever made.

Do the math here, if 750 is upper end of normal in mcg of dosing and it stresses the liver, and a typical dbol dose is anywhere from 20 mg to 100mg ED with inferior results, we can see what is going on here.

Winstrol 50 to 100mg ED or more, compared to .75 mg



TheMeatWagon said:


> Whatever anyone else with their bro science can tell you, there is only one truth:
> 
> - AAS mess up your system, so you must know what you are doing.
> 
> ...


Lets not blow this out of proportion here impotency for the rest of their lives is very low, and in almost all cases everything comes back to normal.

Now, it could take up to a year to return full HPTA function, but far less if PCT is used.

Also, steroids will build muscle even if no resistance training is used, studies confirm this, so has the medical field with AIDS, and muscle wasting disease.

So, lets be fair here and look at both sides of the coin.



TheMeatWagon said:


> There is no oral testosterone, because the way it chemically is, will be destroyed in the liver. There is Andriol, but it's a pile of sh1t when it comes to bodybuilding, useless.
> 
> Dianabol is derivative of testosterone like all other AAS on the market. It will not replace it and will mimic only certain functions of it. Which is the reason why it will have a horrendous impact on your health if taken by itself. YOu'll be depriving your system of a natural hormone and replacing it with an incomplete version of it.


Not true, there are oral versions of testosterone, one is andriol, but needs to be dosed at over 200mg ED to be of any need.

Lets not forget transdermal preperations, tons of them out there, that delivery system does not stress the liver.

One more thing, it was mentioned that if no testosterone is not used in the cycle then HPTA function is worse, or shutdown is worse, that is entirely not true.

Adding in testosterone will not aid in anything but gains, mood, lipids, libido, etc.

I would never run a cycle without testosterone in it, and for the record I would never use methyltrienolone.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Do not mislead the OP into thinking that there is a way out. There isn't. End of.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

TheMeatWagon said:


> *There is no oral testosterone,* because the way it chemically is, will be destroyed in the liver. There is Andriol, but it's a pile of sh1t when it comes to bodybuilding, useless.
> 
> Dianabol is derivative of testosterone like all other AAS on the market. It will not replace it and will mimic only certain functions of it. *Which is the reason why it will have a horrendous impact on your health if taken by itself*. YOu'll be depriving your system of a natural hormone and replacing it with an incomplete version of it.


Make up your mind, how can you say that then say there's Andriol (oral testosterone undecanoate) lol.

Whats this horrendous impact on health?

Edit, just seen Hacks beat me to it lol.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

hongman said:


> @TheMeatWagon - care to explain? I am learning too.
> 
> Is it not proven that 1000IU shot weekly will help towards keeping balls working, so when you come off they can start producing normal amounts of test straight away, and help save crashing so to speak?


Yes, this is correct, HCG mimics LH which directly stimulates the leydig cells to manufacture testosterone.



TheMeatWagon said:


> *HCG DOES NOT REPLACE TESTOSTERONE*


No, it does not replace testosterone, but does stimulate testosterone production as HCG is an LH analog and even in the presence of exogenous steroids, endogenous testosterone still is being made.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Not true, there are oral versions of testosterone, one is andriol, but needs to be dosed at over 200mg ED to be of any need.
> 
> Lets not forget transdermal preperations, tons of them out there, that delivery system does not stress the liver.
> 
> ...


Andriol is absolutely useless. I took almost a gram a day and it did nothing except depleting my ban account. Plus it's on a long ass ester that would shut down the HTPA well before it could yield any effect.

THERE IS NO ORAL SOLUTION.


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks Hacks, I thought I had gone mental there lol.


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Whatever anyone else with their bro science can tell you, there is only one truth:
> 
> - AAS mess up your system, so you must know what you are doing.
> 
> ...


is this serious??

ive never done pct and trust me im far from impotent

??


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

hackskii said:


> No, it does not replace testosterone, but does stimulate testosterone production as HCG is an LH analog and even in the presence of exogenous steroids, endogenous testosterone still is being made.


It will till not fix an endocrine system where there are other substances INSTEAD OF real testosterone.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Not a good idea, you would already be stressing the liver from one of the strongest and harshest steroids ever made.
> 
> Do the math here, if 750 is upper end of normal in mcg of dosing and it stresses the liver, and a typical dbol dose is anywhere from 20 mg to 100mg ED with inferior results, we can see what is going on here.
> 
> ...


This is more help in 1 post then I've got in the last 5 hours lol. If I run JUST MTren DS, there is no telling if ill be fine or not is there?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Andriol is absolutely useless. I took almost a gram a day and it did nothing except depleting my ban account. Plus it's on a long ass ester that would shut down the HTPA well before it could yield any effect.
> 
> THERE IS NO ORAL SOLUTION.


You are mistaken on this one, Andriol has been perscribed as an alternative in Europe for TRT.

Now debating its efficiency is another debate all in itself.

It has a long ester but it is in and out in 8 hours (active life).

Doses are 320-400mg daily split up.

Nobody would use this on its own, and if one was to use other orals, its suppression of the HPTA would be far worse than andriol.

Again, there are transdermal preparations that would be another choice.

Also, the ester has pretty much no impact on HPTA function, so suggesting a long ester is more suppressive than its shorter ester same compound would equal same same suppression.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

TheMeatWagon said:


> It will till not fix an endocrine system where there are other substances INSTEAD OF real testosterone.


I didn't say it fixes the endocrine system, I said even in the presence of low LH output from the pituitary HCG will directly stimulate leydig cells to produce testosterone.

I always recommend running HCG during the cycle to keep and maintain testicular function.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I didn't say it fixes the endocrine system, I said even in the presence of low LH output from the pituitary HCG will directly stimulate leydig cells to produce testosterone.
> 
> I always recommend running HCG during the cycle to keep and maintain testicular function.


Absolutely. It's a must in every cycle of mine. TESTOSTERONE + other AAS cycles.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wardy33 said:


> This is more help in 1 post then I've got in the last 5 hours lol. If I run JUST MTren DS, there is no telling if ill be fine or not is there?


Ok, tren is terribly suppressive to the HPTA, one of the worst, not to mention being very liver toxic, I personally would steer clear of this one.

I mean, if this is your first cycle then I can think of way better things to play with here.

Generally speaking first cycle work the best, gains are incredible.

I would rather go with dbol using an AI during for lets say 6 weeks.

Clomid, nolva for PCT, find out how you did, then go from there.

Gear is used to aid in what we do, although it works very well, certain things can maximize gains like eating right (and enough), sleeping, and training (proper resistance training).


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Ok, tren is terribly suppressive to the HPTA, one of the worst, not to mention being very liver toxic, I personally would steer clear of this one.
> 
> I mean, if this is your first cycle then I can think of way better things to play with here.
> 
> ...


I've done 3 dbol cycles in past, 2 winstrol/ephedrine cycles, test prop.. I don't want to jab but I want lean hard gains from something oral..


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> I've done 3 dbol cycles in past, 2 winstrol/ephedrine cycles, test prop.. I don't want to jab but I want lean hard gains from something oral..


Food?


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Food?


Your sarcasim isn't appretiated.

Not everyone has a knowledge like u, not that ur telling the full truth or know everythink. If ur being arragent to try purswade me to stay away from MTren then don't, I am an adult :thumbs: jog on


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Wardy33 said:


> Your sarcasim isn't appretiated.
> 
> *Not everyone has a knowledge like u*, not that ur telling the full truth or know everythink. If ur being arragent to try purswade me to stay away from MTren then don't, I am an adult :thumbs: jog on


Thank god for that :lol: .


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wardy33 said:


> I've done 3 dbol cycles in past, 2 winstrol/ephedrine cycles, test prop.. I don't want to jab but I want lean hard gains from something oral..


I do understand what you are saying.

Using this logic is like being a carpenter that does not own a hammer, sure he may be able to get the job done, but lacks the tools to do a good job.

Orals have their use, but dbol for instance aromitizes pretty damn heavy, and many guys get gyno from that, and it does stress the liver.

Winstrol is ok, but is one of the worst for lipid profiles, pretty damn suppressive, gives some pretty stiff joints, and can compromise libido.

Anadrol is a very strong DHT dirivitive drug, causes heavy water retention, heavy shut down, and most gains are lost post cycle, not to mention liver toxic.

Halotestin is a very strong androgen, causes some to be damn aggressive, is liver toxic, gives good strength gains but not alot of muscle mass.

See the compromise?

A cycle of testosterone for instance, is not harsh on the liver, creates a great environment for both strength and muscle gains, well tolerated, low on inhibition of the HPTA, fantastic for libido, not bad on lipid profiles, and all the sides are very well known.

You can pin once a week if you like.

That hardly sounds challenging to me.

big contrast between the above and below right?

One problem with orals that have not been addressed is simple.

Endogenous testosterone production falls, which also lowers both DHT, and estrogen.

Estrogen is needed for lipid profiles, bone density, mood, libido, etc.

DHT is needed for prostate, libido, and is 5 times more androgenic than testosterone, not to mention low DHT tends to have more progesterone occupy those DHT receptors putting you less in a favorable environment being a man.

At the very least see if you can find some of that trendflow stuff that is 100mg testosterone per pump of that transdermal stuff, I think it comes out of the Netherlands or somewhere that way.

Or, you can gets some testim, androgel (grab the 10mg stuff) and add that to your orals.

Cycles for orals are short due to liver toxicity, and you can run your cycles twice as long with about the same degree of suppression (depending on the oral) as testosterone.

All in all, in my opinion, testosterone is the daddy of all steroids.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Wardy33 said:


> Your sarcasim isn't appretiated.
> 
> Not everyone has a knowledge like u, not that ur telling the full truth or know everythink. If ur being arragent to try purswade me to stay away from MTren then don't, I am an adult :thumbs: jog on


First of all I am not omniscient. Then I've been trying to tell you that you are going to have more bad effects out of this planned "cycle" than positive, and I have explained you many times, kindly and very accurately why. But you don't seem to be listening and you'd rather hurt yourself than listening to someone who has already been there.

I have also told you that as an adult if you want to put a gun at your head and pull the trigger you are more than free to do that, but is this what you and your family wants?

Try to see the numerous advices I have given you rather than the overdue sarcastic remarks you are calling upon yourself. I haven't written the laws of endocrinology of humans, I haven't made the AAS the way they are. YOu ask if something is possible / effective and I tell you it isn't. I would LOVE it if it was different than that,b ut again it is not up to me to decide how things work!


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I do understand what you are saying.
> 
> Using this logic is like being a carpenter that does not own a hammer, sure he may be able to get the job done, but lacks the tools to do a good job.
> 
> ...


Ok brilliant, 1 jab a week sounds sweet but guessing will be a thick oil which I cannot slin pin LOL.. If I could pin I would, trust me I really would but I'm petrified


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

You can slin the mtren DS can you not?

Not once per week mind, but I dont know if you are adverse to all pinning or ok with slins?


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hongman said:


> You can slin the mtren DS can you not?
> 
> Not once per week mind, but I dont know if you are adverse to all pinning or ok with slins?


When I done test prop, I used the smallest needle my supplier cud get, my MRS had to pin me.. I couldn't pysically do it myself due to my fear.. I'm not ok with ANY jab but slin pins r smaller and my mrs wud probs have to administer this too, I might look into hypnosis to get over my fear of needles tbf


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I got my wife to shoot me in the glute, look at spotinjections.com, they will show you where.

25 guage is pretty tame, I think the 5/8" and bury it in the delt.

But, just load up 500mg and shoot once a week using your wife alternating glutes.

If you close your eyes, you wont feel it.

You also get less movement when someone else does it.

Inject slowly as not to spray the gear through the needle, this will minimize trauma in the muscle.


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I got my wife to shoot me in the glute, look at spotinjections.com, they will show you where.
> 
> 25 guage is pretty tame, I think the 5/8" and bury it in the delt.
> 
> ...


She don't live with me which is why daily or eod is not the one! Lol she used to pin my in the out upper quad but maybe where I could see it it put me off more? I'm worried she will stick it in my glute n ill twitch or jump LOL


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## mattske (Oct 2, 2012)

This has been the highlight of my day  I've laughed, I've learnt, I've loved.

Thanks boys!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I will make it easy on you.

Go here: http://www.spotinjections.com/index3.htm


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## britbull (Mar 18, 2004)

What's happened to the BSI rep suggesting 1 or 2 ml of BSI Mtren 2500mcg/ml to a newbie?


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

RS4 said:


> Op if your looking to use oral to lean up why not diet on tbol,winny and t3?


What is Tbols full name? Winny works for me but gains don't stay long but I didn't stick to diet the last 3 weeks when was on winny last time.. Can't us T3 as will show on drug test, maybe DNP or Clen in its place I can do


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

Turinabol


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## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Great thread. Absolutely superbly brilliant funny and insightful.


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## big-lifter (Nov 21, 2011)

RS4 said:


> Drug test for what? How do you know they will test for thyroid meds?
> 
> DNP is out the window if thats the case as you need to run t3 with it


Ive ran dnp a few times with out t3 and had great results


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## hongman (Sep 26, 2012)

big-lifter said:


> Ive ran dnp a few times with out dnp and had great results


:laugh:


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

...


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

RS4 said:


> Drug test for what? How do you know they will test for thyroid meds?
> 
> DNP is out the window if thats the case as you need to run t3 with it


I get an employment drugs test.. I researched before and I never got a 100% answer so never touched it..


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## big-lifter (Nov 21, 2011)

RS4 said:


> Im sure you did have results as DNP is a poison that works wonders but if you did some research into the compounds before you necked them you would of added t3 and continued on t3 for a week after you finished your DNP, but hey its your body...


Im talking from experiance not stuff ive read on the internet , ive used dnp with t3 and without and not noticed any difrence with or with out


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