# hgh is there any better way to use , ie cutting or bulking.



## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

im bulking ova the winter and cutting coming into june next yr.

i have 300iu of hgh black top generic coming and wanted to know if it would be best used in my bulk or cut and ow u would run it. just looking to get the best out of it really. thanks


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

Bump


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

Mate I'd use it for your cutting season as ideally you need 8-10 iu's minimum per day of gh for bulking and as you know it's not cheap. In terms of how to use for a cut I would use 2.5iu's upon waking then 2.5iu's before bed each day Monday to Friday


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

What BF are you looking for when your cutting mate?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Moved to correct section. You'll get more input here and have a read of the stickys and posts for even more info.


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't understand why people take GH before bed as you get most of your own production in your sleep?


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

mojo-jojo said:


> I don't understand why people take GH before bed as you get most of your own production in your sleep?


Exactly mate , so that means you get the synthetic gh release followed by ha natural release as you fall asleep so it's like being doubled!


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Ah I see, I didn't know if it shut down your own production or something


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

KRIS_B said:


> What BF are you looking for when your cutting mate?


About 10 % just wanna look cut up a bit. Yea its expensive stuff all rigjt. Thanks for info

- - - Updated - - -



KRIS_B said:


> What BF are you looking for when your cutting mate?


About 10 % just wanna look cut up a bit. Yea its expensive stuff all rigjt. Thanks for info


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

Mars said:


> Moved to correct section. You'll get more input here and have a read of the stickys and posts for even more info.


Cheers mars


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

mojo-jojo said:


> I don't understand why people take GH before bed as you get most of your own production in your sleep?


the biggest natural pulse is when you hit REM sleep but all GH pulses will be influenced when you use synthetic GH so it does not matter taking it before bed.



KRIS_B said:


> Mate I'd use it for your cutting season as ideally you need *8-10 iu's minimum per day of gh for bulking* and as you know it's not cheap. In terms of how to use for a cut I would use 2.5iu's upon waking then 2.5iu's before bed each day Monday to Friday


what has made you come up with this figure mate?


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## ginnus21 (Oct 10, 2008)

My limited experience over the last 3-4yrs of HGH use is that its the amount per week, not when you take it. 4days on, 3off was the same as 6days on 1off in overall effect, for me anyway. I'm going to try M/W/F 8iu on waking next cycle.


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## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> the biggest natural pulse is when you hit REM sleep but all GH pulses will be influenced when you use synthetic GH so it does not matter taking it before bed.
> 
> what has made you come up with this figure mate?


I read that for bulking 8-10 iu's minimum should be taken before bed but for cutting I read that you should use 5-6 iu's split into 3 jabs in your day so for eg morning , mid day and before bed?! Is this wrong paul?


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

pscarb any advice on how i should use it cheers


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

any one else


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## Ricky12345 (Jun 13, 2012)

Could do with jumping in with this thread I made one outher day but it got deleted Probly in wrong section would 2.5 units morning and night be ok for me first time using and also would insomnia effect anything with gains with pinning before bed


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

if im using it in my cut it will be 12 weeks of test and tren enth, poss some winny and running a keto diet, will need some more hgh so just stocking up at min.

chilisi would der be much difference if i just pinned 5-6iu at night, just to keep it simple


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

I used it at 8iu M,W,F before bed on an empty stomach whilst on keto and maintained the size and BF in my avi. That photo was taken approx 3 months post AAS cycle. GH is excellent for maintaining gains between cycles IME albeit a bit on the expensive side.


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

ginnus21 said:


> My limited experience over the last 3-4yrs of HGH use is that its the amount per week, not when you take it. 4days on, 3off was the same as 6days on 1off in overall effect, for me anyway. I'm going to try M/W/F 8iu on waking next cycle.


 wasnt aware you were best to take breaks? I thought growth was all about consistency... morning and night for eg if it works for you, long as you can do it for, within reason. why breaks?

Never used, but interested


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## Xage (Sep 14, 2014)

I am using 8IU's EOD as recommended by @Pscarb .. when i take it depends on a lot of things, atm i do it first thing in the morning because it fits in my schedule. When using synthetic GH, there is no "best time" to take it IMO.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

RobPianaLad said:


> wasnt aware you were best to take breaks? I thought growth was all about consistency... morning and night for eg if it works for you, long as you can do it for, within reason. why breaks?
> 
> Never used, but interested


 it is about consistency but consistency just means a certain protocol doesn't mean every day....

taking GH every day will suppress your natural production a hell of a lot more than EOD or MWF protocol as doses as little as 2iu will suppress natural release for 24hrs, taking this fact and applying it to M/W/F protocol means your natural has a chance to recover on those days off, will it make a difference to the results when on GH probably not if dose is the same but after when you drop the GH it will......


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> it is about consistency but consistency just means a certain protocol doesn't mean every day....
> 
> taking GH every day will suppress your natural production a hell of a lot more than EOD or MWF protocol as doses as little as 2iu will suppress natural release for 24hrs, taking this fact and applying it to M/W/F protocol means your natural has a chance to recover on those days off, will it make a difference to the results when on GH probably not if dose is the same but after when you drop the GH it will......


 Because the natural production will recover faster as it's not been ED suppressed?

i suppose thinking its resource terms, EOD would allow for longer periods of use with the same net amount purchased.

Or for higher doses to be taken EOD.

Would you advise for example that 4IU ED is less effective than 6IU (2x pd) ED for a period of 6 months.

Obviously you would be able to go one further and take 4IU morning 4IU night EOD at the same expense of 4IU morning ED.

Given your above post and in terms of bodybuilding results, would you support the

4 + 2 EOD

or 4 + 4 EOD

rather than 4 ED

?

thanks


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i prefer a Protocol that uses M/W/F how you structure the injection on the days you take the GH makes very little difference, as for dose look at it on a weekly dose the results should not be any different if you use the same dose over a week if you do it ED or EOD or M/W/F the difference is the side effects and the negative impact on natural release/production


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> i prefer a Protocol that uses M/W/F how you structure the injection on the days you take the GH makes very little difference, as for dose look at it on a weekly dose the results should not be any different if you use the same dose over a week if you do it ED or EOD or M/W/F the difference is the side effects and the negative impact on natural release/production


 Thanks for the advice, understand the logic.

I have seen lots around only so many IU being able to be utilised in one shot / short time frame though. Seeing around 4-5 IU MAX hence the Q around splitting say 10iu M W F into a 5am and 5pm pin.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the dose will illicit a peak then a curve of GH the higher the dose the higher the peak & longer the curve, 7.5iu will bring a curve of approx 12hrs.

i think what people are getting confused with is that the body will only oxidise (burn) a certain amount of fat this wont increase if you throw more GH at it or combine it with other fat burners but GH does more than just burn fat.

i have found very little difference in splitting up a dose to multiple shots through the day opposed to one bolus shot before bed (this is when i take it)


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> the dose will illicit a peak then a curve of GH the higher the dose the higher the peak & longer the curve, 7.5iu will bring a curve of approx 12hrs.
> 
> i think what people are getting confused with is that the body will only oxidise (burn) a certain amount of fat this wont increase if you throw more GH at it or combine it with other fat burners but GH does more than just burn fat.
> 
> i have found very little difference in splitting up a dose to multiple shots through the day opposed to one bolus shot before bed (this is when i take it)


 Do you notice or believe there is any benefit with timing fitting around workouts? I suppose on the ED protocol it may make sense to take 45-60mins before WO as its a smaller peak and shorter curve where as for 10+ IU M/W/F or even the EOD your obviously going to miss some training days all together.

Shame I can't find any studies on this. Bloody morality fitting into trails is arguably counter productive. Immoral not to test some stuff! Just MO


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

a better question would be "why is it important to take it on the days you train?"

there is a study in this section that had subjects using 8iu of pharma GH M/W/F for 6 weeks the outcome was a mean increase of approx 2kg FFM and a drop in body fat, the study was to show that you do not need to run GH for months to see results


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> a better question would be "why is it important to take it on the days you train?"
> 
> there is a study in this section that had subjects using 8iu of pharma GH M/W/F for 6 weeks the outcome was a mean increase of approx 2kg FFM and a drop in body fat, the study was to show that you do not need to run GH for months to see results


 Thats a good solid result for a short period of time, although as I would call it anyway, a decent dose of genuine Pharma grade product per day, albiet weekly, 24IU not being so much.

I have some arriving this week (not pharma unfortunately) but plenty IU for me to try any protocols for a fair amount of time. Could do around 6 months at 32-35IU PW.

I was leaning towards the EOD / M W F based on our conversations. One deciding factor will be if I get sides on the larger shots (MWF) in which case EOD may be more beneficial.

I read that you do not split the dose either, which is ideal due to time and effort. Based on your post above "why is it important to take it on the days you train?" - this goes against lots of reading material that states it should be taken 45-60mins Pre WO. I guess I haven't found the answer to your hypothetical Q challenging that!

Taking Pre WO does appeal to me though, I train 6:30am, waking up at 5:30 ish so a shot soon as I wake up gets it out of the way and means I am always getting it in consistently.

Just want to say thanks for the conversation as well @Pscarb as i feel i am pestering, but its valuable learning.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

there are a load of opinions on the net about GH mine included but may will make sweeping statements without being able to back the claim up, GH does not react any differently if taken Pre or Post workout there is no rule book to say it must be taken at a particular time of the day, when you begin to use Synthetic GH you shutdown your own production no matter if you take it in the morning of before bed......


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> there are a load of opinions on the net about GH mine included but may will make sweeping statements without being able to back the claim up, GH does not react any differently if taken Pre or Post workout there is no rule book to say it must be taken at a particular time of the day, when you begin to use Synthetic GH you shutdown your own production no matter if you take it in the morning of before bed......


 Do you know if this causes long term issue / recovery of natty production?

Again, couldnt find any studies.

Self paid for TRT test doses is one thing... HRT of GH would be another! £££££££££

Recovery times? How is this impacted by a 3 month / 6 month / 12 month cycle?

Got any exp the help on the above Q @Pscarb or good reading material?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

RobPianaLad said:


> Do you know if this causes long term issue / recovery of natty production?
> 
> Again, couldnt find any studies.
> 
> ...


 can you be more specific long term issues when you do what M/W/F protocol?

just so i am clear whats the above question?


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Cheers @Pscarb happy to explain - for example, say i run Xiu on M/W/F it will no doubt impact by Natty HGH production.

So if i run for 3 months or 6 months or 12 months, what bearing may that have on recovery.

as a contrast, we all talk about PCT protocol and recovering test and correct blood levels, whats the equivalent process for GH. Is it comparable to T3 where its fairly stable at coming back?

Therefore my questions are:

1) whats links has duration of GH blast got with shut down and recovery time from shutdown once synthetic GH stops

id like to run GH straight for a full 12 months if i am honest. So weighing up the cycle vs long blast options and the above will be a factor.


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## Etoboss (Dec 1, 2015)

RobPianaLad said:


> read that you do not split the dose either, which is ideal due to time and effort.


 Do not split dose on the eod or m/w/f routine? I had fort if doing like 8iu m/w/f you should split dose morn/pre bed and not take it all in 1 jab?


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Etoboss said:


> Do not split dose on the eod or m/w/f routine? I had fort if doing like 8iu m/w/f you should split dose morn/pre bed and not take it all in 1 jab?


 Q for @Pscarb


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

RobPianaLad said:


> Cheers @Pscarb happy to explain - for example, say i run Xiu on M/W/F it will no doubt impact by Natty HGH production.
> 
> So if i run for 3 months or 6 months or 12 months, what bearing may that have on recovery.
> 
> ...


 when you take synthetic GH you stop your natural production for 24hrs so if you take GH everyday the suppression over time will be harsh how long it takes to recover from this i have no idea as it can be influenced by many factors (age, muscle mass, duration etc) you can assist recovery from synthetic GH by utilising a peptide protocol.

when using GH EOD or M/W/F you get at least 24hrs where your PG is not being smashed with synthetic GH so the side effects (insulin resistance) are not as severe as ED use.......

if you want to use GH for 12 months then use it for 12 months and see what it gives you, the best way to determine the best protocol is trial and error this is how the majority of my experience has been gained.



Etoboss said:


> Do not split dose on the eod or m/w/f routine? I had fort if doing like 8iu m/w/f you should split dose morn/pre bed and not take it all in 1 jab?


 why should you split the dose?


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> when you take synthetic GH you stop your natural production for 24hrs so if you take GH everyday the suppression over time will be harsh how long it takes to recover from this i have no idea as it can be influenced by many factors (age, muscle mass, duration etc) you can assist recovery from synthetic GH by utilising a peptide protocol.
> 
> when using GH EOD or M/W/F you get at least 24hrs where your PG is not being smashed with synthetic GH so the side effects (insulin resistance) are not as severe as ED use.......
> 
> ...


 So moving away from ED as that is more pins and suppression.

*MWF - 10iu M / W / F (30IU per week) *- ok in one shot each day sides wise and the liver being able to utilise it? Keep reading it can only turn so much to IGF-1 at a time hence why people say split the dose intra daily depending on amount

*EOD - M / W / F / S* -* 10IU per day (40IU per week)* - obviously a bigger dose so more effective for body building. My vials are 10iu vials so i dont want to mess about with doing like 8iu and then having 2iu left and a new one being opened etc. (may be being lazy but...)

Think either of the the above are fine then? I really dont mind taking 5iu AM and 5iu before bed if it helps (based on liver availability) and or limiting side effects.

thoughts?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

my thoughts are you are overthinking things, i have said what i do and i tend not to do things that do not work, as i have said you need to use trial and error, split the dose if you want to and look at the results then take all in one shot and look at the results then you can gauge which is best for you, either way you are not wasting GH.....just to add not all GH converts to IGF-1 in the liver GH has many functions


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> my thoughts are you are overthinking things, i have said what i do and i tend not to do things that do not work, as i have said you need to use trial and error, split the dose if you want to and look at the results then take all in one shot and look at the results then you can gauge which is best for you, either way you are not wasting GH.....just to add not all GH converts to IGF-1 in the liver GH has many functions


 Ok and appreciate the other functions of growth - i will go with trail and error.

One more question, is it best to do the first month at say 5iu (once) on the M W F - so to start low and build up? Any use or none at all?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

you should always start low and build up as the negative sides to GH can be very bad if you take to much


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## RobPianaLad (Nov 8, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> you should always start low and build up as the negative sides to GH can be very bad if you take to much


 5 packs of HYGE just arrives actually, 500iu picked up.

going 3.33iu EOD initially will see sides or issues.

Then ramp to 5iu EOD

and so on until i hit say a 10iu M / W / F


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## Etoboss (Dec 1, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> when you take synthetic GH you stop your natural production for 24hrs so if you take GH everyday the suppression over time will be harsh how long it takes to recover from this i have no idea as it can be influenced by many factors (age, muscle mass, duration etc) you can assist recovery from synthetic GH by utilising a peptide protocol.
> 
> when using GH EOD or M/W/F you get at least 24hrs where your PG is not being smashed with synthetic GH so the side effects (insulin resistance) are not as severe as ED use.......
> 
> ...


 Going off that study u posted mate splitting dose.. that's what they did? To take advantage of 2 lots of fatty acid releases?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Etoboss said:


> Going off that study u posted mate splitting dose.. that's what they did? To take advantage of 2 lots of fatty acid releases?


 i assume you are referring to this section of the study (if not please point me to the section)

"the relative dose range varied between 0.03 and 0.05 mg/kg per injection. Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period."

this does not state they split the dose just that the injection where given between 08.00 and 3.00pm dose range was down to the weight of the individual to see the weekly dose.


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## Etoboss (Dec 1, 2015)

Oh crap didn't notice that! My bad. I will do all my gh in 1 jab from now on then lol


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