# Confused - Smith Machine Squats Feet Forward



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi all,

I'm a little confused. I was under the impression that when performing smith machine squats with your feet forward, it targets and isolates the quads but today I've read a few conflicting articles stating that the emphasis is placed more on the hams and glutes when the feet are positioned forward.

http://www.musclemag.com/muscle-building/what-happens-when-you-move-your-feet-in-front/#.Uwp3fF4jlPM

http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/legs-exercises/lower-body-blaster-bigger-stronger-legs

Can someone shed some light on this?


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Feet forward will engage the ham/gluts more.

Still hit quads tho...

Front squat- shifts tension to quad.

Conventional squat- slightly more even over all.

Hack squat- lots more ham glut involvement.

They will all work the quads well tho.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> Feet forward will engage the ham/gluts more.
> 
> Still hit quads tho...
> 
> ...


This is completely new to me. I was always under the impression that hacks were also used as a quad builder.

So are you saying with hacks and smith machine squats with feet positioned forward, the main emphasis is hams and glutes with quads being the secondary muscle?

What kind of pressing type movement can be used to target the quads mate excluding free-weight squats?

The only thing I can think of is the leg press and the v-squat.

I trained legs today and did 6 sets on the leg press but for some reason I just didn't feel like they got hit properly.


----------



## fastcar_uk (Jan 30, 2013)

Feet back KILLS my knees!!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

MissMartinez said:


> If feet are lower back it targets quads more I thought... The more feet forward the more glute Hams used was what I thought


That's what I've discovered today but I know a lot of people who think its actually the opposite.

I know a lot of people who pound hack squats and smith machine squats with their feet forward in an attempt to isolate their quads.

On a side note, how easy is to a2g when doing smith squats with your feet under your hips? I can a2g no problem when my feet are forward as I can lean against the bar but can't a2g to save my life when doing free weight squats. Just curious whether I'll have the same issue when doing smith squats with my feet under my hips.


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> This is completely new to me. I was always under the impression that hacks were also used as a quad builder.
> 
> So are you saying with hacks and smith machine squats with feet positioned forward, the main emphasis is hams and glutes with quads being the secondary muscle?
> 
> ...


No no, all of these will target quads very well... Just the further forward your feet placement the more ham/glut will be recruited.

Have you ever tried a pre exhaust on legs?

Extensions to failure then a press like hack or leg press?

This is a good way to help develop your mind muscle connection.

Its also a good way to focus on the quads.

Hack is a good movement to do bud keep it in for a while.

The key is to mix up what you do... So hacks for a few weeks then leg press etc.

Or better yet do them both?

Nothing wrong with 2 big pressing movements in a workout.


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> That's what I've discovered today but I know a lot of people who think its actually the opposite.
> 
> I know a lot of people who pound hack squats and smith machine squats with their feet forward in an attempt to isolate their quads.
> 
> On a side note, how easy is to a2g when doing smith squats with your feet under your hips? I can a2g no problem when my feet are forward as I can lean against the bar but can't a2g to save my life when doing free weight squats. Just curious whether I'll have the same issue when doing smith squats with my feet under my hips.


Never squat with feet under your hips on a smith!

You'll more them likely fck your back!


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

MissMartinez said:


> I'd say ur knees will take a battering!!!


Yea and this too


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> No no, all of these will target quads very well... Just the further forward your feet placement the more ham/glut will be recruited.
> 
> Have you ever tried a pre exhaust on legs?
> 
> ...


Hi Jim,

Currently I am employing pre-exhausting techniques when training legs. I always do extensions and curls before any big movements. My legs instantly feel on fire after doing these two but when I'd go over to the smith and squat with my feet forward, I just don't feel like my quads are getting hit hard enough. I get tired doing the exercise but my quads don't feel the same sensation as they do when doing extensions.

Today I did the leg press with only 100kg on each side trying to really work on that mind muscle connection but they just didn't feel taxing enough. I lower the sled just before my knees hit 90 degree as any lower and my back starts rounding.

My legs have got good mass on them but because I've suffered from lower back issues, I've had to be very particular with which exercises I can do and how I perform them. I feel that I've plateaued now and aren't too sure on how to really destroy my quads in a safe manner.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> Never squat with feet under your hips on a smith!
> 
> You'll more them likely fck your back!


I'm now thinking that maybe single-leg leg presses and hacks may be better suited for me. With single-leg leg presses, you can achieve a deeper ROM without your back rounding but I'm not to sure how effective this will be for building bigger quads.


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> Currently I am employing pre-exhausting techniques when training legs. I always do extensions and curls before any big movements. My legs instantly feel on fire after doing these two but when I'd go over to the smith and squat with my feet forward, I just don't feel like my quads are getting hit hard enough. I get tired doing the exercise but my quads don't feel the same sensation as they do when doing extensions.
> 
> ...


Try this on your next leg session.

This is nasty and you should feel your quads burning like fck!

Extensions

20

20

20

Work set

5x failure with 10sec rest

Should go-

Full ROM failure (about 20), 10sec rest, full RON failure, 10sec, full ROM failure, 10 sec rest total muscular failure, 10sec, total muscular failure. (total is till you can't get the stack to lift off at all.

Leg press

10

10

Work set

7x10 with 10 sec rest

Should go-

10

10

10

10

10

10 should fail on this set

10 should fail on this set too

When you fail pause and take a fee breaths then finish the set.

On the last failure set it should be real hard even with a couple of pauses.

Here you quads should be crying!

Then hit hack squat as hard as you can for regular straight sets or how ever you would normally.

Then train your hams in same way with 5x5 10 sec rest on lying ham curls.

Calves same 5x5.

The weight should stay the same on. Fail on 20 then fail fail fail and fail!

This is nasty!

Try it once to see how you feel...

Your quads will get all the stim they need from that workout!

Iv done the same in the past but used free bar squat and I was fcked.

.. Literally laying on the gym floor in pain... Awesome and very diff to what most guys do.


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> I'm now thinking that maybe single-leg leg presses and hacks may be better suited for me. With single-leg leg presses, you can achieve a deeper ROM without your back rounding but I'm not to sure how effective this will be for building bigger quads.


Single leg press is an awesome move as i a lunge or a walking lunge... All worth a go bud


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> Try this on your next leg session.
> 
> This is nasty and you should feel your quads burning like fck!
> 
> ...


This sounds brutal mate :thumb:

I've got legs tomorrow and shall defo's give this a try.

Cheers for all your helpful advice mate. Much appreciated.


----------



## Beats (Jun 9, 2011)

We dont have Hack Squat machine in our gym is there anything can do apart from the ham curl machine that will hit the hammys hard?

Hate the machine my knee clicks away while I do it lol


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Dizzee! said:


> We dont have Hack Squat machine in our gym is there anything can do apart from the ham curl machine that will hit the hammys hard?
> 
> Hate the machine my knee clicks away while I do it lol


Smith with feet forward is actually a hack squat.

This will hit hams

Leg press with feet high will hit hams

Stiff leg deadlift will hit hams

Any ham curl will hit hams

Probably the best ham movement is ghr's or glut ham raises.


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> This sounds brutal mate :thumb:
> 
> I've got legs tomorrow and shall defo's give this a try.
> 
> Cheers for all your helpful advice mate. Much appreciated.


Make sure to take all the iso moves to failure!

No problem mate happy to help


----------



## Beats (Jun 9, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> Smith with feet forward is actually a hack squat.
> 
> This will hit hams
> 
> ...


Think a wee google search of GHR is in order.

So leg press machine and put feet high up on the plate will hit the hammys well?


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Dizzee! said:


> Think a wee google search of GHR is in order.
> 
> So leg press machine and put feet high up on the plate will hit the hammys well?


Yes it will do... I guess its the same idea as feet out in front on hacks but will hit hams and gluts much more effectively in my experience.

GHR are probably the hardest but most effective hamstring building exercise.

Try them assisted 1st then move on to bw and if you ever need it you can add weight... Unlikely tho lol


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

@big_jim_87

Tried what you recommended today mate and my legs r destroyed lol.

Just before my workout was over, I saw a guy doing box squats on the smith machine with a bench between his legs. When he finished, I thought I'd give it a quick blast as well to see what they're like.

Too my surprise, they actually felt great. I was sitting down on the bench, pausing for a second and then getting back up again. Quads were screaming and I felt no stress at all in the knees, lower back or hips.

Have you ever tried these and if so what do you make of them?


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> @big_jim_87
> 
> Tried what you recommended today mate and my legs r destroyed lol.
> 
> ...


Lol yea that workout will do that to you...

Surprised you wanted to try any thing after that lol

Never done any sort of box squat but i use the dead stop principal quite often on other moves...

Would imagine its good.

Not sure on smith squat but if it feels ok then do it for a while


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> Lol yea that workout will do that to you...
> 
> Surprised you wanted to try any thing after that lol
> 
> ...


Curiosity got the better of me mate lol. When I saw someone else box squatting on the smith, I just had to try it. Kept it light though as my legs were shattered.

How would u dead stop on legs if you don't box squat, or are referring to other muscle groups?

Also, what are the benefits of dead stopping? Does it recruit more muscle fibres?

What I liked about the smith machine was that it prevents you from rocking back unlike free weight box squats so the tension seems to be placed on the quads instead of the hips and glutes. Also appreciated the fact that my knees felt no stress what so ever and my lower back was fine also.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm a big fan of box squatting. In fact I box squat at least as often as I do the conventional squat. Although I train for strength the same principals can be applied to body building.

You should always pause at the bottom of each rep for a half second or so...http://www.westside-barbell.com/index.php/the-westside-barbell-university/articles-by-louie-simmons/articles-published-in-2005/378-box-squatting-benefits


----------



## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Contest said:


> Curiosity got the better of me mate lol. When I saw someone else box squatting on the smith, I just had to try it. Kept it light though as my legs were shattered.
> 
> How would u dead stop on legs if you don't box squat, or are referring to other muscle groups?
> 
> ...


I was referring to all muscle groups... For legs my fav dead stop exercises are

Hack squat machine

Leg extensions

Ham curls

Leg press is ok as long as your back dnt roll.

The benefit of pausing is you take out the muscle's stretch reflex and this makes the movement harder.


----------

