# Can you still stay lean during a anadrol cycle?



## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Im wondering if its possible to stay lean and avoid alot of bloat when on a anadrol cycle ? And how? Would nolva or arimidex be options to minimize bloat?


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

An Ai would help for sure, as well as a clean diet with low salt intake as this affects water retention as well.

Personally would use anavar though if you want to stay lean.


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

there was a thread about this on here and ausbuilt contributed alot, was basically keeping carbs low and very low sodium. try to find it mate


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

I believe I heard ausbuilt say low sodium, low carbs (no processed food or takeaways)


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

Dezw:2750457 said:


> An Ai would help for sure, as well as a clean diet with low salt intake as this affects water retention as well.
> 
> Personally would use anavar though if you want to stay lean.


ai wont help because anadrol dosent aromatize like dbol


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Iknow that sodium makes you retain water and a clean diet is essential , but if i one day wanted to run Anadrol i would like to take every possible measure to retain minimal amounts of water.


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

infernal0988:2750482 said:


> Iknow that sodium makes you retain water and a clean diet is essential , but if i one day wanted to run Anadrol i would like to take every possible measure to retain minimal amounts of water.


nolva is also supposed to help


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Aus is on 150mg per day and take a look at him, so hell yeah you can stay lean on oxy's.

Very strict diet though.

I think recommending anavar prob wont help him, if hes lookin at oxy's he lookin for mass and var just wont cut it. Obviously i know why it was recommended as its great for albeit small lean body mass etc

Maybe look into tbol??


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

I am actually starting a blast of test , Tren & Tbol but im looking to add a good oral to the end of the blast im after mass but i want to stay lean.



golfgttdi said:


> Aus is on 150mg per day and take a look at him, so hell yeah you can stay lean on oxy's.
> 
> Very strict diet though.
> 
> ...


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

What dose aromasin would you run whilst on oxy's?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

drol is known for mass water retention so i cant understand why you would want to use it to make lean gain, surley other aas as much better than trying to fight with its main effects, why not use tbol for example or injection????


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ai's do not work on drol its water retaining effects is not because of estrogen or prog but drol stimulating the oestrogen and prog receptors, 2 totally difrent causes with the same effect!

reducing water retention on drol is imo best left down to diet, drols main gains in size and strength come from the water so if you remove the water gain your removing a large part of the benifits from using drol so imo pointless to use it, you wont make the same gains from drol if you remove the water gains from it, other aas are alot better than drol if you want lean gains.

just dont see no point taking prob the werst aas for water retention then trying your hardest to stop what its main action is and removing its main benifit for gains when there is plenty options thats better lol


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Empire Boy said:


> But how does it do it Stone? Can you answer me that? Can you tell me how oxymetholone stimulates ER and PR? *My guess, because medical science doesn't know either*, it that it might involve the aromatase enzyme...but if you can tell exactly how oxymetholone, once metabolised in the liver, stimulates oestrogenic avtivity, I'm all ears big man.


exactly i agree, anadrol has been passed all its tests and it used on patients so the water retention problem isnt a big enough problem to look in to why it happens as its spending loads of cash for no reason as its not seen as a problem for its main use, its no problem to its cancer, hiv patients the people who anadrol is made for its benifits to them far out weight the side effects and its them that count, so why would they bother finding out answers to something if its not a problem?

its a problem to us but androl isnt made for use lol


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Im starting to run a Test and Tren blast next week mate, i was looking at anadrol cause i wanted a oral to run for the last weeks of the blast, but then again maybe i should just run more Tbol towards the end.



stone14 said:


> drol is known for mass water retention so i cant understand why you would want to use it to make lean gain, surley other aas as much better than trying to fight with its main effects, why not use tbol for example or injection????


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## Brutal1 (Jan 25, 2011)

I used Abdi Ibrahims Anapolons with a clean diet, plenty of cardio and put on 3kg in 9 days, I stopped cos i could see I was gonna balloon out, I suppose everyone reacts different, but for me i found it almost impossible not to blow up on Oxymetholone.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

You make a fair point their Empire very interesting


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> ai's do not work on drol its water retaining effects is not because of estrogen or prog but drol stimulating the oestrogen and prog receptors, 2 totally difrent causes with the same effect!
> 
> reducing water retention on drol is imo best left down to diet, drols main gains in size and strength come from the water so if you remove the water gain your removing a large part of the benifits from using drol so imo pointless to use it, you wont make the same gains from drol if you remove the water gains from it, other aas are alot better than drol if you want lean gains.
> 
> just dont see no point taking prob the werst aas for water retention then trying your hardest to stop what its main action is and removing its main benifit for gains when there is plenty options thats better lol


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8785183

there are numerous studies, that show oxys are THE best muscle builder. Good review here:

http://www.medibolics.com/chart.htm

Note anavar liver toxicity at 40-80mg....

OK no one disputes anadrol can cause water retention, which takes very anal managment- I eat no takeaway and NO processed food AT ALL (includes no luncheon meats, no commerical sauces etc) and combined with low carbs, water retention is about 1.0 to 1.5kg for me at 1bout 104kg (as in thats what i lose off cycle).

i find 1 glass of red wine and 30mL of glycerol help..

The weight gain and strength are def not just water...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Brutal1 said:


> I used Abdi Ibrahims Anapolons with a clean diet, plenty of cardio and put on 3kg in 9 days, I stopped cos i could see I was gonna balloon out, I suppose everyone reacts different, but for me i found it almost impossible not to blow up on Oxymetholone.


i1/2 a lasix tab EOD helps if its that out of hand...

or

20mg/night elanapril...


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Whats Glycerol aus?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

im just going of my own research over the years, i will try and hunt out something to back up what im saying, i may be wrong and thats fine lol, but i have never found anything that says drol converts to estrogen or probg, only the opposite that it doesnt and its cause for stimulating er ar are unknown and its all guess work but us guys on there boards. aas converting from 1 to another like test to dht,estrogen for example is easy to understand and test has been studied for what ever reason to understand why this happens but from everything ive read there is no reason to spend money finding out why drol stimulates er ar if its not a problem, its throughing money away, and the fact that anadrol is available to its patients and the fact that its actions are unknown proves its not a problem, if it did convert to estrogen and prob then it would be common knowledge as it is with every other aas, but its not, its a mistery which imo proves there is no evidence to say it does so,


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

so ausbuilt with the proper diet and meds oxy`s can be a very powerful lean mass builder?


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

Whats the problem 'ballooning' out on cycle? apart from aesthetics..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8785183
> 
> there are numerous studies, that show oxys are THE best muscle builder. Good review here:
> 
> ...


i didnt say it wasnt a great mass gainer but water retention is 1 reason for its gains, more water in muscle = more room for the muscle to move= more strength and less pain during lifting end result = better training more lbm, reducing water from any aas will reduce gains imo his is why powerlifters favour drol as its water has benifits, if someone wants to be lean then drol is prob there werst option, if someone can take drol and get everything they want from it in gains and staying lean then thats great, there diet is oviously nailed, but taking other meds to fight its effects is a bit backward i think its not are ownly option. and up to this point i dont believe ai's and anti-e's will help anyone with water problems from it.

from what ive read anadrol acts in other ways to cause its water retention, i will gladly accept being proved wrong this is just what i think at this point....imo


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Empire Boy said:


> yep, not saying it directly converts to E, it does not...
> 
> But it is stimulating E, and to do that, you have to be producing something similar to E or E itself, and the best at doing this is the aromatase enzyme...so since we don't know how E, or E like molecules are being produced, I am erring on the side of caution and taking a low does of aromasin with tamoxifen. With a clean diet, we'll see if I balloon up bad.


yeh if you think it will help then use them and see totally fine dude nout wrong with that, this part of drol is is just a mistery and will always be trial and error, everything ive read basicly says it stimulates the ER AR in a difrent way but they never say how exactly, so i dont think no1 knows tbh for my reasons im guessing above not having enough reason to spend cash to find out imo


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

and i agree the extra group on c2 must have a big effect on its action, and finding out the answer will need alot more than theory to figure it out


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

pinched out of an article

*Nonetheless, when oxymetholone is used in a cycle yielding high estrogen levels, it is notorious for worsening apparently-estrogenic symptoms. This may be from its producing progestagenic symptoms which are easily confused as being estrogenic; from altering estrogen metabolism; by upregulating aromatase; or perhaps by increasing prolactin. The actual cause is not proven.*

*
*

*
*


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> pinched out of an article
> 
> *Nonetheless, when oxymetholone is used in a cycle yielding high estrogen levels, it is notorious for worsening apparently-estrogenic symptoms. This may be from its producing progestagenic symptoms which are easily confused as being estrogenic; from altering estrogen metabolism; by upregulating aromatase; or perhaps by increasing prolactin. The actual cause is not proven.*
> 
> ...


actually, this is along the right track.....

I actually, although derived from DHT, structurally, I see structural similarities to progestins..

http://www.afboard.com/library/Review%20of%20Oxymetholone.pdf

see the diagrams there... also a DAMN good article in general..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

talking of progestin like aspects of oxys,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1137938

the article states that Oxys INHIBIT progesterone.

Now I theorise that its becuase of this (it could be due to interaction with the progesterone receptors..), inhibited progesterone can also induce a relative oestrogen increase....

another interesting factor is that the previous article i posted noted that cytochrome P450 interacts with oxys, it doesn't metabolise it..

so an AI won't effect oxys, and also dostinex is pointless as oxys inhibit progesterone.. but perhaps running the AI will keep oestrogen lower, even with low progesterone levels..

On 150mg/day oxys again, and all i take is 1mg arimidex EOD (for the 2g of test...) and my nips are nice 'n tight...


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> So the AI is doing something...I understand the aromatase does not interact directly, but at some point, somehow, oxys are causing a raise in E, and if you inhibit the enzyme that causes E directly, then its a safe bet you'll stave off E sides. Simple.


I always pay attention to Empire Boy's posts. I suspect that I'm listening to a fellow chemist. Respec'

The progestigenic sides of trenbolone on its own wouldn't cause much gyno or bloat, but can massively magnify a small amount of an estrogen. Dianabol aromatises into a very potent, long-lasting methylated estrogen - too much for me to handle above 20mg a day. Turinabol, on the other hand, I really get on with.

Like EB says, oxys can't aromatise directly. But the body possibly breaks them down into something that is estrogenic, or is aromatised. So be careful of it in conjunction with trenbolone.

I have done a tren / test / turinabol combo, and its great. I gained muscle, and was as dry as a bone. But I always think that you should use watery steroids like dbol or oxys as a kickstart, and dry DHT-y ones like winstrol or anavar as a "kickstop". They seem to somehow consolidate the water in muscles into muscle fibre, making it more keepable, and adding vascularity and interesting little bumps and striations on those boring balloon muscles.

Personally, I think turinabol and anavar are the most valuable oral steroids in our armory.

Dianabol is 1950s steroid technology. By adding a chlorine atom to it in the right place, it is unable to interact with aromatase or 5-a dehydrogenase, and goes by the name of turinabol. Tbol is a great, cheap, low-sides nitrogen retention agent. It just makes the protein you eat stick to your bones, and not much else.

Anavar has an unfair reputation as a weak steroid, but I've found that 100mg a day kicks ass. You can put on solid, keepable muscle, and belly fat melts away.


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