# Test Enanthate first cycle.



## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

Hi everyone. Im going to start my first cycle shortly, but just want to make sure im doing everything correct.

Was thinking of 250mg Monday and Thursday for 8 weeks.

I have nolva and clomid for pct but would I need to take nolva throughout the cycle?

Also do I need to use hcg for a cycle like this?

Was also going to put in some proviron, but not sure when would be best.

Could anyone come up with a good way of using these to make it a good first cycle?

Thank you


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

You should be ok without nolva during the cycle, although keep plenty on-hand just incase.

Use the proviron throughout the cycle.

IMO use HCG throughout too. Many people will say "500mg... you don't need HCG for that", but IMO it is useful for everyone, particularly those who intend to come off.

Also, unless you've already bought the clomid, I wouldn't bother. Although in the past I've favoured a nolva/clomid combo PCT, I would prefer HCG throughout and a nolva-only PCT as per Swale (and various other "doctors") recommendations.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

jimbo said:


> Hi everyone. Im going to start my first cycle shortly, but just want to make sure im doing everything correct.
> 
> Was thinking of 250mg Monday and Thursday for 8 weeks.
> 
> ...


Test E, 500mg wk for 10wks.

You could use the proviron @ 25-50mg ED throught the cycle.

Clomid and nolva for PCT. Hcg if you feel the need.


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## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

Cool, thanks for the replys.


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## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

How much HCG would you say throughout?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Some say 250ius each week after week four or so. Id use it half way through at 1500ius 3xweek for a week. Old school, but I get my best gains on the cycle during this week and the week after. Its your first cycle so recovery will be pretty good if correct PCT is followed anyways.

Id also run it for 12 weeks, perhaps even 14. Id run the proviron latter half, beginning when doing the mid-cycle HCG onwards till end, including taper when stopping jabs to starting PCT.

JMHO.


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## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

big said:


> You should be ok without nolva during the cycle, although keep plenty on-hand just incase.
> 
> Use the proviron throughout the cycle.
> 
> ...


What are the reasons for no clomid during PCT? Do you recommend no clomid even if I decide not to take HCG?

Cheers.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Nolva is better than clomid. Clomid can have side effects in some people, nolva tends not to. The experts in PCT (e.g. Swale) all have nolva only PCTs, and don't use clomid.

I think you'd be silly not using HCG personally. It will help you recover and you'll keep more of your gains.


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## Newbie22 (Oct 12, 2008)

big said:


> Nolva is better than clomid. Clomid can have side effects in some people, nolva tends not to. The experts in PCT (e.g. Swale) all have nolva only PCTs, and don't use clomid.
> 
> I think you'd be silly not using HCG personally. It will help you recover and you'll keep more of your gains.


Hi,can please help me with a two questions.

1. If I am going to take the HCG throughout the test cycle, which week do I start/ how long do I take it? Or do I date it for the whole duration of the test cycle.

2. After im done with the test cycle and HCG...when do I start using nolva andhow long do i take it?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Newbie22 said:


> Hi,can please help me with a two questions.
> 
> 1. If I am going to take the HCG throughout the test cycle, which week do I start/ how long do I take it? Or do I date it for the whole duration of the test cycle.
> 
> 2. After im done with the test cycle and HCG...when do I start using nolva andhow long do i take it?


1. Start from the beginning IMO (or at the latest week 2-3) and take it for the duration of the cycle right up until PCT.

2. Run a faster acting ester drug after you finish the test enan (e.g. dbol, winny, prop, whatever) for 3 further weeks. Run the HCG during this time too. When the 3 weeks is up, drop all drugs apart from nolva.

So your cycle plan will look something like this:

1-4 (optional): fast acting - dbol or prop or winny etc

1-12 (for example): test enan

13-15: fast acting

1-15: HCG

16-19: Nolva

The first 4 weeks of fast acting drugs will help you get some reasonable gains without having to wait 4 weeks worth of pinning yourself with enan before it kicks off. If you can handle waiting, don't bother with this.

You could run the test enan anywhere from 8 weeks onwards. I've picked 12 here. Obviously if you only run it for 10, you will reduce the starting point of your fast acting stuff to week 11, etc etc.


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## tony1401 (Mar 8, 2008)

BIG,

what would be dosages of prop and enan at the start and end, and ideal amount of hcg for the 15 weeks?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

It entirely depends on you dude. Depends on your size, stats, cycle history, how you respond to gear, your adversity to risk etc etc.

If you can give more info on your stats and cycle history, we can give you an idea of what to run.

For a first or second cycle, assuming reasonable training history and decent diet, somewhere between 250 and 500mg/week of test enan, with 250-500iu HCG every 3 days, and fast acting gear in the range of 30-40mg of dbol OR 50-100mg EOD of test prop. Nolva would be 40mg ED for the first 2 weeks of PCT followed by 20mg ED for the last two.


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

i have been reading lots of stuff on this cycle.

would you not run clomid in the PCT, as some are saying yes and some no.

And everytime i read about HCG its different


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

smudge said:


> i have been reading lots of stuff on this cycle.
> 
> would you not run clomid in the PCT, as some are saying yes and some no.
> 
> And everytime i read about HCG its different


No to clomid. Nolva is better and has fewer sides. I used to recommend a combination, as many people did, but we have since learned that you don't need both (from PCT experts and the very few doctors who have spoken out about this).

By all means try PCT with and without clomid tho if you want to find out for yourself - it may have side effects, but it isn't going to kill you.


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## C19H28O2 (Oct 11, 2008)

i dont understand why HCG should be run throughout. Test enan does'nt kick in until the 3 week mark and atrophy does'nt usually occur until the 8-9 mark. I was under the impression that HCG should be used in the last week of the cycle and the following 2 weeks in preparation for PCT. There is also the concern that you will become desensitized from using HCG throughout.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Atrophy by look and feel isn't exactly the most scientific explanation. And HCG takes time to kick in too. Desensitivity won't be caused by small dosages throughout.

If you have run cycles with and without HCG and have found that you don't get any benefit by running it throughout, then of course, don't bother. But most people who have tried it both ways do seem to prefer it throughout in low, regular dosages.


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## C19H28O2 (Oct 11, 2008)

ive only the run it the way ive explained, so i cant really compare. i'm only going by what ive read, but there seems to be a lot of disagreement on this issue. I'm starting a cycle in a few weeks so i might try using it throughout- see if i get better results.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Give it a try and let us know how you get on

Clever username BTW


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## C19H28O2 (Oct 11, 2008)

lol

will do m8- i'l do a log if ive got the time


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

So if i ran HCG for the last two weeks of my cycle and the two weeks before my PCT how much would i need? is it daily?


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## C19H28O2 (Oct 11, 2008)

follow bigs advice and run it throughout, its better to be safe than sorry- especially if you decide to include another compound to kick start your cycle.


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

I was wondering abaut what you said about fast acting drugs, after the last shot(ex:1_10 ent, 10-13 dbol) until the pct. Wont the dbol delay the recovery? And how about Proviron during the PCT, some people sai it´s bad, some say that it only gives you libido and wont interfire whith the recovery.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Biohazard_pt said:


> I was wondering abaut what you said about fast acting drugs, after the last shot(ex:1_10 ent, 10-13 dbol) until the pct. Wont the dbol delay the recovery? And how about Proviron during the PCT, some people sai it´s bad, some say that it only gives you libido and wont interfire whith the recovery.


The reason for the fast acting drugs at the end are to ensure you are starting PCT at the right time.

Running a drug like enan means that it could take 2-3 weeks (or more) to clear. Meaning that the scope of starting your PCT may be wrong... either too early, or too late by a large amount. Running something fast acting that only takes a day or two to clear means that at worst you will be 1-2 days wrong, rather than 1-2 weeks wrong when starting your PCT.


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

yeah i would be using 30mg d/bol.

So how much HCG.

Also i always see it in iu's how much is an iu?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

smudge said:


> yeah i would be using 30mg d/bol.
> 
> So how much HCG.
> 
> Also i always see it in iu's how much is an iu?


Typically you will get HCG in 500, 2500 or 5000iu amps. You mix it with bac water into the relevant quantities (e.g. if you wanted to run 250iu E3D, you'd mix the 2500iu amp with 1ml of bac water, and load it into 10 slin pins.

For HCG run throughout, I would recommend starting with 250iu E3D. If that isn't enough for you, up it to EOD before upping the dose.


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

big said:


> The reason for the fast acting drugs at the end are to ensure you are starting PCT at the right time.
> 
> Running a drug like enan means that it could take 2-3 weeks (or more) to clear. Meaning that the scope of starting your PCT may be wrong... either too early, or too late by a large amount. Running something fast acting that only takes a day or two to clear means that at worst you will be 1-2 days wrong, rather than 1-2 weeks wrong when starting your PCT.


Ok thank´s, i understand know, so i con do 14 days of d-bol for example and than start whit the pct, along whit hcg until the last day of d-bol.After that Tamoxifeno 14 days/40mg and the last 14days/20mg.

And what do you think abaut ZMA with the tamox, will it be any help?


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

Sorry for all the questions.lol

1. So if i had a 5000iu amp would i use 2ml of bac?

2. Did you mean slim pins? if so what are they (are they the ones used for insulin?)

3. Also is that 250iu a day?

4. What did you mean by upping the EOD?

Cheers for all your help, im just trying to get as much info as i can


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Big, do you really think it is essential to run HCG E3D on a 500mg Test E cycle?

If anything, i would run it with PCT along with Nolva & Clomid.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Biohazard_pt said:


> Ok thank´s, i understand know, so i con do 14 days of d-bol for example and than start whit the pct, along whit hcg until the last day of d-bol.After that Tamoxifeno 14 days/40mg and the last 14days/20mg.
> 
> And what do you think abaut ZMA with the tamox, will it be any help?


I would do at least 3 weeks worth of a fast acting ester rather than only 14 days... as the test enan probably won't have cleared by then anyway.

ZMA won't make any difference for recovery dude.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

smudge said:


> Sorry for all the questions.lol
> 
> 1. So if i had a 5000iu amp would i use 2ml of bac?
> 
> ...


1. I would still use 1ml (in fact, you may only be able to get 1ml into the amp) and split it accordingly.

2. Slin pins... yes, the ones used for insulin.

3. I would start with 250iu every 3 days and see how you get on.

4. I mean that if 250iu every 3 days isn't enough for you, up it to every other day, rather than going to 500iu every 3 days at first.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

big said:


> 1. I would still use 1ml (in fact, you may only be able to get 1ml into the amp) and split it accordingly.
> 
> 2. Slin pins... yes, the ones used for insulin.
> 
> ...


I would say thats enough, I run "slightly" more aas and 300-400iu E3-5D is adequate to keep DMCC happy lol


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## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

So Big if you ran a first cyle like this it would be ok?

1-4 wks dbol 30mg

1-12 wks 500mg test Eth

10-12 wks dbol 30mg

1-12 250 iu hcg

12-14 40mg nova

14-16 20mg nova

If you ran sus 250 would you add an extra week in before you start pct ?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Sylar said:


> Big, do you really think it is essential to run HCG E3D on a 500mg Test E cycle?
> 
> If anything, i would run it with PCT along with Nolva & Clomid.


Depends on the person dude.

Some people can run 1g+, come straight off, and recover fine.

Others come off of a cycle with less than half that gear and have to run more PCT drugs than you can fit in a barn, yet still have problems.

I would always err on the side of caution and run it rather than not bothering. The worst that can happen is that it makes no difference to your recovery, even at higher dosages (500iu ED/EOD), so you don't bother with it again and it's a few quid down the toilet. Best case scenario is that it makes a major difference to your recovery.

During PCT it is too late IMO. Have a read of something I posted up on this board a while back, written by Swale himself:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/9024-swales-pct-protocol.html


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Robbyg said:


> So Big if you ran a first cyle like this it would be ok?
> 
> 1-4 wks dbol 30mg
> 
> ...


Run the dbol a bit longer at the end dude, but make sure it's after the test, and don't start your nolva PCT until you finish the dbol. I have made corrections in bold above.


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## tony1401 (Mar 8, 2008)

BIG

i done a test e cycle 250mg pw for 10, didnt have any problems wiv gyno,

so what dosages for the dbol and test e, im thinking 30mg dbol for 4 weeks

with 500mg test e for 12 weeks and 30mg dbol pd for 3 further weeks.

i dont fancy doin hgc throughout due to storing it in fridge (wife problem)

so when at the end and how much.

also proviron 25mg throughout


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## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks big  gives me a better understanding of using hcg during the cyle


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

tony1401 said:


> BIG
> 
> i done a test e cycle 250mg pw for 10, didnt have any problems wiv gyno,
> 
> ...


If you were happy with the results from 250mg/wk, stick with that dosage... and 30mg dbol sounds sensible at that level. If you got good results, don't up the dose to 500mg yet... stick with what's working, and only increase when you need/want to.

HCG would need to be stored in the fridge. Using it at the end is a bit late IMO, and even so, you'd need to have 3-4 weeks worth of it, which would again need fridge storage. Just don't use it during PCT as it may actually inhibit recovery (see the link I posted by Swale above).

But if you didn't have trouble recovering from your cycle last time without HCG, you will probably be fine again this time. However, when/if you do ever come to increase the dosage/duration, you may find recovery a bit harder... in which case HCG will help greatly, and a word with the Mrs might be in order


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## Biohazard_pt (Aug 27, 2008)

big said:


> I would do at least 3 weeks worth of a fast acting ester rather than only 14 days... as the test enan probably won't have cleared by then anyway.
> 
> ZMA won't make any difference for recovery dude.


Once again thank´s big.


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## tony1401 (Mar 8, 2008)

thanks big


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

do you have to use slin pins?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

You can use regular pins, because HCG can be used IM or sub-q... but why poke yourself with a big pin when you can just use a slin pin. You mix HCG with bac water, which will go through a slin pin easy peasy


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

i can get HCG in 1500iu amps. i get that i add the bac water to it then keep it in the fridge, i have worked out that 1500/6 is 250 (which took me ages lol), but i have just been looking at the slin pins on google and they all go to 100.

So how far up up is 250iu?

im starting to feel retarded with all these question, i really appreciate all your time and help


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, if you're using 1ml of bac water, then you will need 1ml/6 (or 100/6 on the slin pin... which is 16.666667 out of 100). This is a pain in the ass to get accurately, so I would just use 20 out of 100 on your slin pin (i.e. 0.2ml) per shot. That means you'll get 300iu per shot, which is about right. Do you get what I mean?


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## smudge (Sep 15, 2008)

i think i finally understand.

Once again cheers for the help


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## Newbie22 (Oct 12, 2008)

big said:


> Well, if you're using 1ml of bac water, then you will need 1ml/6 (or 100/6 on the slin pin... which is 16.666667 out of 100). This is a pain in the ass to get accurately, so I would just use 20 out of 100 on your slin pin (i.e. 0.2ml) per shot. That means you'll get 300iu per shot, which is about right. Do you get what I mean?


Last question before you go BIG. I do not want to use a fast acting ester drug so does this look fine?

1-10 test enan @ 250mg/week

2-10 HCG @ 250iu every 3days

12-14 Nolva @ 40mg

14-16 Nolva @ 20mg

and are all these drugs injectable? and do you have any idea how this would make me look...would it be a drastic difference, like having my girlfriend freaking out? I am 6ft 180lbs and I want a decent amoung of gain. would this be fine?

thanks for the assistance.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

It looks alright dude, but ideally you'd run something like dbol in that time... why are you against it? Dbol is an oral.

Enan is IM injectable. HCG is either IM or sub-q injectable. Nolva is oral.

It should make a noticable change if your diet is sensible dude. It's impossible to give an accurate answer, because everybody is different. Eating around 500 cals/day over maintenance should give you some decent mass gains without blowing up like a water-balloon


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## Newbie22 (Oct 12, 2008)

big said:


> It looks alright dude, but ideally you'd run something like dbol in that time... why are you against it? Dbol is an oral.
> 
> Enan is IM injectable. HCG is either IM or sub-q injectable. Nolva is oral.
> 
> It should make a noticable change if your diet is sensible dude. It's impossible to give an accurate answer, because everybody is different. Eating around 500 cals/day over maintenance should give you some decent mass gains without blowing up like a water-balloon


Well you said that dbol was just for fast actions,to help the test kick in quicker...but I can wait. Plus I want to keep my drug intake to a minimum.

is the nolva 20/40mg per week or day? i have 100 tablets, 20mg each.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

At the start the dbol is there to help the gear start working quicker.

And the END, the dbol is there to allow a more accurate estimate of when to start PCT... this is where it's more important IMO.

The nolva is 40mg ED in weeks 1-2 and 20mg ED in weeks 3-4.


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## Newbie22 (Oct 12, 2008)

big said:


> At the start the dbol is there to help the gear start working quicker.
> 
> And the END, the dbol is there to allow a more accurate estimate of when to start PCT... this is where it's more important IMO.
> 
> The nolva is 40mg ED in weeks 1-2 and 20mg ED in weeks 3-4.


i dnt think u understand my last question but thanks for al the help


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Newbie22 said:


> i dnt think u understand my last question but thanks for al the help


ED= Each Day.

I'm pretty sure he understood it fine.


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## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

Quick question reguarding HCG i have 5000 ius worth once i have divided them into 250 iu how long will it last for in the fridge ? forgot to ask cheers sorry i hijack thread


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