# 4/5 weeks dbol cycle Results (before and after pictures)



## READYorNOT (Mar 1, 2012)

This is a small cycle as it was my first, waiting to run clen with winny and clean diet.

The gains arnt great deal but i was surprised to get what i got out of it,

it was mainly strenth gains .... which i was looking for. went from lifting 18s on each arm to 34s which was big.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/444/beforenafter45weeksdbol.png/

what do you think?


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

I will be honest and say Im having a hard time to figure out which are the before's and which are the after's.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

you need to cut badly. No visual gains that i can see- but not unexpected - you can't build any muscle in 4 weeks... you can't loose much fat in that time either...

You need to do a moderate 12-16 week cycle; while cutting....


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## badly_dubbed (Nov 21, 2011)

Which are before?


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

mainly strength gains you went for and you quote what you increased on arms lol tells me alot. Cant see much diff best of losing some bf


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Agree you need to cut. No offence but I can't really see a difference?


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## Fullhouse (Mar 31, 2010)

Fantastic results buddy, water weight really suits you


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## rocknrolla (Feb 8, 2012)

yeah not really any difference im afraid mate.. whats your training and nutrition like?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Everything that's needed to be said has been said... Back to the drawing board mate


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

4/5 weeks is a waste of dbol, 8+ weeks is best.


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## jamster85 (Aug 1, 2011)

iv noticed ur head seems to be different shapes! but thats about it lol


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

andysutils said:


> 4/5 weeks is a waste of dbol, 8+ weeks is best.


sorry meant to say at the very least 8 weeks and thats the absolute bare minimum id do unless I was on a long term stack.


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## READYorNOT (Mar 1, 2012)

i am going on clen and winny as stated. will run this course for the longest time possible without risking health and safety.

The outer pictures are the after. and inner are before.

i can see my back is more musclular, my traps are huge, and people say i have a nice back..

i may have a bit fat lol.. but thats going in time 

t

how long untill i can run my next course which will be cleanup ... thanks


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

C'mon guys don't be mean 

I did a dbol only and loved it, butbi agree with these guys you can't see increases of muscle mass under all that fat, get yourself on a good diet and train your ****ing **** off for a few months, keep your protein high and cut your carbs right down. You'll look amazing in no time, then hit the dbol.


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## Big_bear (Apr 1, 2011)

jamster85 said:


> iv noticed ur head seems to be different shapes! but thats about it lol


lol... harsh but funny. I would listen to every one and defo cut. Your carrying to much bf and should try and get down below 15%. I really like cutting on test/var/t3. If you too scared to jab then I would go var and t3.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

READYorNOT said:


> i am going on clen and winny as stated. will run this course for the longest time possible without risking health and safety.
> 
> The outer pictures are the after. and inner are before.
> 
> ...


I'd give it 10 weeks atleast mate.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Save your winny for later on in your cut or you won't see the results in that either, other than the strength. I'd go natty until you are down to 12% or so and that's when it starts getting hard to shed so add in your gear then. Don't know anything about clen tbh so can't comment on that


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## Akira (Nov 1, 2011)

To be honest mate I think you should leave the gear for a while and completely focus on your diet.


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## READYorNOT (Mar 1, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> C'mon guys don't be mean
> 
> I did a dbol only and loved it, butbi agree with these guys you can't see increases of muscle mass under all that fat, get yourself on a good diet and train your ****ing **** off for a few months, keep your protein high and cut your carbs right down. You'll look amazing in no time, then hit the dbol.


thanks dude, i do love the critisim but theirs no need to be rude? im new to this? just lets see if they say the same in 7 months time.. when ive completed cutting and build.

bt yeah i am cutting asap. i need to know how long do i have to wait to start next cycle?



Big_bear said:


> lol... harsh but funny. I would listen to every one and defo cut. Your carrying to much bf and should try and get down below 15%. I really like cutting on test/var/t3. If you too scared to jab then I would go var and t3.


yeah i cant wait to cut. then i can bulk again later on.. but yeah i dont mind injecting i just kept it simple for first cycle on dbol only ... but yeah ill look into test/var/t3.

I heard clen and winny good ... with some t3 ...thanks

Everyone. i am leaving the gear. and going to focus on the kitchen and some hard cardio...and light weights but high reps.

im going to power this for 3 months and get my stats re done..

just out of interest. i have a sweat suite.. would this be better to use while on the treadmil?


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

Dont rely on gear. Learn how to diet.


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Natty.Solider said:


> Dont rely on gear. Learn how to diet.


this this this this this this this.


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## READYorNOT (Mar 1, 2012)

Fat said:


> this this this this this this this.


check what i put before that post..

i am going to focus on kitchen and cardio.....

no more gear until i get to at least 15% bf


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

READYorNOT said:


> check what i put before that post..
> 
> i am going to focus on kitchen and cardio.....
> 
> no more gear until i get to at least 15% bf


Good decision


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

when you cut, dont be afraid of the strength loss, its temporery. also you will look flatter and ****ter for a while when you cut because your a higher bf (ive been dieting on and off for a while now and dropped 50lb in total so dont take it in a bad way 

wish u the best of luck for next cycle and make sure u consult the forums about what you should eat/do for cardio etc

also why didnt you post a picture of your legs. please train them or you'll just look silly later in life.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

There is no advantage to high reps/low weight weight when cutting really. Stick to your normal strength/mass routine and just do cardio ontop of that, because you are at such a high bodyfat you will probably still build some muscle while dropping fat. Look into keto diet, worked amazingly for me


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## jamster85 (Aug 1, 2011)

im runnin a slimmin world diet (not that i need too) but the misses is doing it (not that she needs to either but u know what women r like) so im eating the food she is cookin along with high protien foods (which is basically slimmin world diet anyway) if ur no good at dieting mate its really easy to follow, and i think its like 30 quid or sumthin for 12 weeks, always better to hav sumthing to follow if ur new at it. im also doing 20ml of test prop and 120 t5s jus tto try n shed the lil bit of fat i hav got b4 jumpin onto a bulkin cycle! good luck mate (ps i didnt mean the head thing is a bad way, saw the oppertunity and took it lol)


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree with the above and doet however something to not for the future..

When youre takin before and after shots try to strike the same poses. Its a bit easier for comparison. Its really difficult to compare these due to none of the poses matching and also the different lighting.


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

Mate do yourself a favor, for your health and for your benefit... DON'T RELY ON GEAR, get a proper diet sorted, focus and discipline... Go on a nice cut naturally, as you can do properly I'm sure, and in 6 months of sacrifice and hard work (or the time it takes to get to a decent BF %) then think about AAS... Meanwhile do things properly.

I don't want to be nasty, just constructive criticsm.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

OP was told he wasn't ready on various threads BEFORE he did this cycle.He has done it and realises his mistake,maybe you will listen to people who know a lot more than you in future?

Personally I'd say aim for 10% not 15%.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

And this is the guy who was handing out the dbol advice like he knew everything only a week or so ago, ready or not most defo not!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

BONE said:


> Your fat. Fact


You bitch.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

READYorNOT said:


> thanks dude, i do love the critisim but theirs no need to be rude? im new to this? just lets see if they say the same in 7 months time.. when ive completed cutting and build.
> 
> bt yeah i am cutting asap. i need to know how long do i have to wait to start next cycle?
> 
> ...


look, dieting without gear is silly, despite what some people have said here, as you will loose what muscle you have.

If you can face an injection, then take 600mg/week of testosterone while dieting, here"s why:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long

look at the charts for fat % and muscle mass between 300mg and 600mg....

this cycle was 20weeks, which is what you would need for cutting.

If you cant face an injection, 100mg/day of winstrol will suffice (split into 3x8hours doses for maximum blood levels based on an 8 hour half life).

Now diet and training, try this, which is what is used to get into shape:

Dieting and getting ready for Competition.pdf

as for the sweat suit, dont be daft. That was some 1950s thinking... whatever WATER weight you loose while using it, will be put on by drinking.. the idea of cardio is to burn energy, and keep the metabolism elevated.

Now if you follow the low carb diet approach, your t3 will drop naturally. I recommend you follow this procedure for using t3:

And remember, your thyroid will not f**k up... it may get suppressed,but rebounds in 2-8weeks in full.

The idea is not to get to that point.

1. take your morning temp (in ear thermometer) before leaving bed 5 mornings in a row..

2. start your t3 use, 100mcg/day

3. keep measuring your temp.

4. after 5 days if your temp is not 0.3-0.6 higher, take another 25mcg, if not higher in another 5 days, take another 25mcg. Most shouldn't need more than 150mcg total.

5. keep measuring your temp.

6. when your temp drops 0.6deg 3xmornings in a row- is the temp lower than when you started? if not you have jsut started to down regulate your own production, stop and you will have no rebound; if its lower than when you started, you will have a little rebound, unless you keep your diet tight- keep measuring, and when your temp goes back to your baseline, your thyroid has recovered full function.

run the t3 daily for the duration of your diet; but stop immediately if your temp drops as above.

the temp approach was originaly developed by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broda_Otto_Barnes

and refined for BBs by:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Duchaine

in his book BodyOpus.

you can of course add clen to the above to help fat loss even more; start at 80mcg and add 20-40mcg every 2days until you hit a dose that gives you to much cramping, then drop back 20-40mcg.

There is no need to cycle the clen, just take it as long as you take the T3.


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## jamster85 (Aug 1, 2011)

BONE said:


> Your fat. Fact
> 
> Learn how to eat clean and restrict carbs and when and how much to cardio, whilst doing this research winny/var/clen/t3/dnp
> 
> Ps. your traps are far from 'huge'


we all start sumwhere matey lol and if he thinks his traps r huge then so be it! it makes him feel good dont it! i think my ccok is huge! but hey lol


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

When (as the OP) you're clearly fat, probably around 25-30% by my estimation, there is no real necessity for use of gear in order to diet down to a half decent level, let's say around 15% or lower. Without losing muscle mass either. It really isn't that difficult and many have done it. I'm sure that drugs help a damn lot when you're at already very low bodyfat, but that just isn't the case here!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Kinda agree with aus except I would use test, t3 and 200mg dnp. Get it done, get it done fast lol but I'm an impatient reckless tw4t! Also noticeable weekly losses are good for motivation. Just my opinion


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## jamster85 (Aug 1, 2011)

im using test prop and t5s, cant get hold on dnp:mad:


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

I've basically been going through saving every single one of aus' posts.. Utter genius!


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## jamster85 (Aug 1, 2011)

ditz said:


> I've basically been going through saving every single one of aus' posts.. Utter genius!


stalker:001_tt2:


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

jamster85 said:


> stalker:001_tt2:


Look out your window.. Lol


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

backs defo bigger in bottom right, but as above you need to drop the fat to gain a better shape and definition


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## teekah (Jul 10, 2012)

Cant tell the difference mate sorry


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bull Terrier said:


> When (as the OP) you're clearly fat, probably around 25-30% by my estimation, there is no real necessity for use of gear in order to diet down to a half decent level, let's say around 15% or lower. Without losing muscle mass either. It really isn't that difficult and many have done it. I'm sure that drugs help a damn lot when you're at already very low bodyfat, but that just isn't the case here!


exactly, leave the gear for gaining atm concentrate on no gear and good diet and hammer the cardio 1hr x5 a week, the higher your bf% is above optimum % the easier it will be to loose, you should have no problem getting down to 15%.

AM fasting cardio 1hr session then wait 1hr before 1st meal, no carbs after 5pm only protein, use something like flaxseed oil, evoo for good fats, as much green veg as you want, slow carbs like brown rice, oats etc,

sups t5's or any ECA mix, or hammer the dnp research 

edit just spotted ausbuilts post, his advice is better go with it


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## deemann (Jun 25, 2010)

BONE no need to be mean dude


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## ooomoo (Jan 29, 2008)

I thought the inner pics wer the after lol! Sorry but you look about 25% plus bodyfat , u won't see much results with that buddy, train proper, eat better and loose the fat firs begore running any cycle.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ditz said:


> I've basically been going through saving every single one of aus' posts.. Utter genius!


but you have to remember Aus's answer for everything is drugs, there are other way to do things. If you asked him how to deal with the cold weather on the weekend he would quote a study on how T3 and DNP will increase your body temp, where as I would tell you to put your fukin' coat on.


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## jamster85 (Aug 1, 2011)

rectus said:


> but you have to remember Aus's answer for everything is drugs, there are other way to do things. If you asked him how to deal with the cold weather on the weekend he would quote a study on how T3 and DNP will increase your body temp, where as I would tell you to put your fukin' coat on.


Either way would keep u warm hahaha


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

but seriously, wouldn't going on the ketogenic diet give you the results you want? Keto doesn't touch muscle does it?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

rectus said:


> but you have to remember Aus's answer for everything is drugs, there are other way to do things. If you asked him how to deal with the cold weather on the weekend he would quote a study on how T3 and DNP will increase your body temp, where as I would tell you to put your fukin' coat on.


aus is just being realistic, the guys going to take something or other anyway, so rather than blindly letting him take whatever or following broscience - aus is giving him the drug protocol that he believes is suitable for him and will give him results. Hes blindly taken dbol without much thought.


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## ditz (Jun 5, 2012)

rectus said:


> but you have to remember Aus's answer for everything is drugs, there are other way to do things. If you asked him how to deal with the cold weather on the weekend he would quote a study on how T3 and DNP will increase your body temp, where as I would tell you to put your fukin' coat on.


I do see where your coming from and I agree.. BUT he's never said that's the ONLY way of going about it, he's just giving his opinion of the best way to do it, and that's what it's all about... So the op should trawl through everyone's opinions, and take from them what he will


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

rectus said:


> but seriously, wouldn't going on the ketogenic diet give you the results you want? Keto doesn't touch muscle does it?


Can somebody answer this?



ditz said:


> I do see where your coming from and I agree.. BUT he's never said that's the ONLY way of going about it, he's just giving his opinion of the best way to do it, and that's what it's all about... So the op should trawl through everyone's opinions, and take from them what he will


Yes true, and I hope he does. I guess my point was that he is clearly an amateur and doesn't need any encouragement to take gear before he knows what he's doing in a natural state. Let's not kid ourselves here, gear is there to short cut, but if you haven't got the basic knowledge of how to diet then it's wasted and potentially dangerous.


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## &lt;JAY_JAY&gt; (Jan 4, 2007)

Here mate dont take this the wrong way, you could clean up your diet and get on the treadmill, maybe lose some bodyfat the hard way, whats the rush with gear and folk these days, would you rather not have abs and be fit n healthy first.

Sorry pal i just seem to see so many people which to me is going down the wrong path..


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

> Here mate dont take this the wrong way, you could clean up your diet and get on the treadmill, maybe lose some bodyfat the hard way, whats the rush with gear and folk these days, would you rather not have abs and be fit n healthy first.
> 
> Sorry pal i just seem to see so many people which to me is going down the wrong path..


Yes, this was me. I was going to get on the DNP and T3 and all that other sh!t to lose body fat without doing it the smart way: hard work. I do Test E but this is for muscle mass so I don't think I can be called hypocritical for that, it's different. It's very easy to get caught up in this world, it's very exciting to self medicate, being in control of your own body rather than handing over the responsibility to a Doctor is empowering. It's important to take a step back and get your head out of the storm cloud and try to see things from a different perspective.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> but seriously, wouldn't going on the ketogenic diet give you the results you want? Keto doesn't touch muscle does it?


Remember that there are different types of ketogenic diets. Straight ketogenic diet isn't great diet normally for athletes, whereas a cyclical ketogenic diet can be a superb fat loss diet for many. I've seen it written numerous times on this forum that muscle loss is guaranteed on any diet because diets are inherently catabolic. No doubt that cutting back on calories is catabolic, but the beauty of cyclical ketogenic diets is that there are programmed refeeds to put the body back into anabolic state. Result - fat loss without muscle loss. I'm not entirely sure that is the case when getting into very low body fat levels, but it certainly would be easily possible for the OP to get down to a decent %BF without losing any muscle.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

rectus said:


> but seriously, wouldn't going on the ketogenic diet give you the results you want? Keto doesn't touch muscle does it?


yes it will. Eating little to no carbs will make you very catabolic, its one of the most catabolic states you can put your body in so eating into muscle will be a big problem. Also carbs play a large part at pushing other energy sources into the body including protein. But how much muscle you have to begin with will play a big part in how much you lose.

If you carrying more muscle than you can naturally hold, e.g using gear, forget dieting without gear.

Using gear whilst dieting is far more needed and important than using gear on a mass build imo. Id probably actually use higher doses whilst dieting than I would on a mass gain cycle.


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## hotchy (Aug 20, 2009)

2 completely different answers there... first is you don't loose muscle next is OMG!!!! You'll be a twig without gear in a week!!!!!

I prefer first option. Iv lost well over a full stone on keto, no drugs, lots of cardio and my arms measure the same, my lifts are only 1 rep down on my heaviest bench. My moobs are looking like a guy should again. Why on here do people think if you diet you'll be a twig if natural, yet there's so many natural guys who have dieted and look better than half these roiders giving advice?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

hotchy said:


> 2 completely different answers there... first is you don't loose muscle next is OMG!!!! You'll be a twig without gear in a week!!!!!
> 
> I prefer first option. Iv lost well over a full stone on keto, no drugs, lots of cardio and my arms measure the same, my lifts are only 1 rep down on my heaviest bench. My moobs are looking like a guy should again. Why on here do people think if you diet you'll be a twig if natural, yet there's so many natural guys who have dieted and look better than half these roiders giving advice?


To be really fair mate I actually think that we're (the guys who recommend gear when dieting and my humble self) both kind of right.

As Andysutils stated, if you're holding more muscle due to past gear use and you need to lose fat, then if you try it without drugs then you'll inevitably lose muscle. I'm sure he's right and I won't dispute it.

But I absolutely will contest the assumption that you automatically lose muscle when you diet. It's not true when you follow a clever diet (think cyclical ketogenic). I've lost alot more fat than you have and my lifts have gone up, not down.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

rectus said:


> but you have to remember Aus's answer for everything is drugs, there are other way to do things. If you asked him how to deal with the cold weather on the weekend he would quote a study on how T3 and DNP will increase your body temp, where as I would tell you to put your fukin' coat on.


yes but this is the steroid section  lol


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> To be really fair mate I actually think that we're (the guys who recommend gear when dieting and my humble self) both kind of right.
> 
> As Andysutils stated, if you're holding more muscle due to past gear use and you need to lose fat, then if you try it without drugs then you'll inevitably lose muscle. I'm sure he's right and I won't dispute it.
> 
> But I absolutely will contest the assumption that you automatically lose muscle when you diet. It's not true when you follow a clever diet (think cyclical ketogenic). I've lost alot more fat than you have and my lifts have gone up, not down.


Nice on Mr. Terrier, I will keep an eye on your posts from now on (not in a creepy way) as you seem to know your stuff. I think Palumbo's keto diet is cyclical but I will have to read further on that. Really looking forward to trying keto after my bulk, I don't think it'll be easy but the fact that it will work is worth the suffering.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> but you have to remember Aus's answer for everything is drugs, there are other way to do things. If you asked him how to deal with the cold weather on the weekend he would quote a study on how T3 and DNP will increase your body temp, where as I would tell you to put your fukin' coat on.


but I learnt from the master:


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## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> but I learnt from the master:


Brilliant


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

jamster85 said:


> iv noticed ur head seems to be different shapes! but thats about it lol


LMAO!


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

To be honest buddy i dont think a course of dbol was the best choice for your body type.

And even if you do have gains you wont be able to notice it so much under the body fat (no insult)

I can see your traps have gotten bigger.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

drop fat to 10-15% and then you will notice alot more from aas


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## doubleh (Jun 10, 2009)

Bollox to all this crap about you needing 8 week cycles mate.....that may be true etc but YOU are a long way from needing to use gear at all!!! Lose some weight and get into shape before even thinking about doing another cycle of anything.


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