# pro hormones



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

LA Muscle ZMAX Pro Hormone 90 Tablets - LA Muscle - Supplement Centre

Just thinking if i should go down this road and start taking pro hormones....

Is it a good idea ?????


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

or these as a stack

Super Anabolic Stack by LA Muscle Special LA Muscle Deal


----------



## Outgoingguy (Apr 6, 2008)

I do not know the product though... The supplement`s main ingredient is similar to ZMA which is sound similar to which Zinc, Magnesium has been studied and does not really show any benefit unless you are deficient. Here is an exert from a study i just looked upl.

". Results indicate that ZMA supplementation during training does not appear to enhance training adaptations in resistance trained populations."

TRIBULUS - no effect really unless you have below normal testerone (which is unlikely) or you are coming from a situation where that is the case

ACETYL L-CARNITINE - has some evidence for weight loss and perhaps muscle

but is cheap to buy on it own

I would say... Save your money

I hope this was useful


----------



## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

From what I hear LA Muscle is over rated, I'd go for something like Alpha Male or Novodex if your looking for a natural test booster

Better Bodies UK - Fitness Clothes - Sports Supplements : Novodex (60 caps) [Gaspari Novodex] - Â£34.95


----------



## evolution (Jul 18, 2009)

usn 19 anabol testo is very good as a test booster. iv used this a few time and its a good product, Sex drive really goes up .:becky:


----------



## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Try Anabolic Designs Mass Plex, its off the hook.


----------



## Outgoingguy (Apr 6, 2008)

What does "off the hook mean"? really good obviously?


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Extreme said:


> Try Anabolic Designs Mass Plex, its off the hook.


Thanks Extreme. I'm gonna but some tomorrow. What is a good pct to take after i finish the cycle.

Ive just read i should stack it with this. Is that ok

http://www.bodyactive-online.co.uk/Shopping/pdblackchinalabs-11test.asp


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

any ideas anybody


----------



## nozza89 (May 15, 2009)

are these legal then, sorry for the noob question


----------



## Outgoingguy (Apr 6, 2008)

yes they are legal


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Ive just ordered some mass plex.

Just want to know if its fine to take them by themself or is it best to stack it with something else??


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

anyone know


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

well i have had not much response so i gather hardly anybody knows the answer ????


----------



## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

It looks like its a good product on its own, from the description:

Mass-Plex uses a dual full dose prohormone stack to remove the guesswork from building a monster physique. Taking a maximum dose of Pheraplex (17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol) at 10mg and stacking with premium original methyl-masteron Superdrol (2a, 17a-dimethyl-17B-Hydroxy-5a-etiocholan-3-one) at 10mg, MASS-PLEX offers a complete solution.

Better Bodies UK - Fitness Clothes - Sports Supplements : Mass Plex (60 Capsules) [AD Mass Plex] - Â£38.95


----------



## maidenscotland (Mar 10, 2009)

Ive just started mass plex only been on it a week strength already up.

I'm going on Novedex XT as a pct after my cycle.....

:clap2:


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

ok....1st day today on mass plex. 58 capsules left. I'm not gonna bother doing a pct cause its only a 4 week cycle


----------



## Impossible (Dec 2, 2009)

PCT has nothing to do with how long you take a DS/PH its more about how badly shut down or surpressive a compound is?

Plus speedy recover equals few sides and better gains.


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Been on mass plex now for 6 days....

Weight gone up from 167 lbs to 170 lbs

bench gone from 80kg 8 reps, now did 100kg today for 6 reps


----------



## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

hulksta said:


> I'm not gonna bother doing a pct cause its only a 4 week cycle


I think it might be a good idea to see what people reccomend for PCT as this stack sounds quite powerful!


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

hulksta said:


> ok....1st day today on mass plex. 58 capsules left. I'm not gonna bother doing a pct cause its only a 4 week cycle


nolva @ 20/20/10/10 or something similar

No OTC pct products like novedex xt.

Its SD and PP - 2 of the strongest steroids out there.

Youd be foolish to not do a full pct


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

maidenscotland said:


> Ive just started mass plex only been on it a week strength already up.
> 
> I'm going on Novedex XT as a pct after my cycle.....
> 
> :clap2:


You used the same pct for epistane. Which was not a good idea.

This is much harsher. As i stated above 2 of the strongest compounds available (orals). You will need to read what i suggested above for the thread starter.

No OTC products as a base in a PCT.

You guys need to read up, you clearly dont know much about these products. SD and PP are harsh on lipids, liver, BP, kidneys.

PP has the capability to convert to estrogen.

what support supplements are you guys running? did you preload them?

i bet those 2 are a no.

This post may seem abrupt but your harming your endocrine system if you dont do PCT and your using 2 highly potent steroids without knowing what they do or how to use them, or what to take with them or even after.

guys c'mon. Please take this as a learning experience and cycle properly.

Go and buy yourselves something like cycle support or life support and start taking 2 daily doses split

And then go and get some nolva while your at it.


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

i was not gonna do a pct, only because Extreme said that its not worth it because its only a 4 week cycle, and im pretty sure extreme knoes what hes talking about....


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

1. get mass-plex and take it alone, you've enuf supps to complement it

2. personally I wouldn't be getting carried away with PCT, I think loads of people are panicking over this when they aren't even on gear. Mass Plex is a 1 month course, there's not enough time for any shut down to occur.

There's too much talk about PCT and the reason ppl need it so much is bcos they are staying on gear or pro hormones too long.

THE COMMENT ABOVE IS FROM EXTREME


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

ok so mass plex is a steroid right. Is it in the same league as dbol and all the other well known ones......


----------



## Impossible (Dec 2, 2009)

hulksta said:


> 1. get mass-plex and take it alone, you've enuf supps to complement it
> 
> 2. personally I wouldn't be getting carried away with PCT, I think loads of people are panicking over this when they aren't even on gear. Mass Plex is a 1 month course, there's not enough time for any shut down to occur.
> 
> ...


You cant teach this Guy hes a fool!

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make the horse drink it. :axe:


----------



## Outgoingguy (Apr 6, 2008)

Where did you buy your mass plex from?


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

hulksta said:


> ok so mass plex is a steroid right. Is it in the same league as dbol and all the other well known ones......


Hulksta,

SD was banned in the states earlier this year as a steroid. Its a steroid.

So is PP, it was developed in the 60s by max huffman its chemical name is: Desoxymethyltestosterone. It never advanced past trialing and so was not marketed...until recently with athletes taking it and now being marketed as a PH. Infact its set to be ban in jan 2010 i believe.

Both are steroids and both are of similar comparibilty to dianabol as you asked. SD cycles range from 10-40 mgs for 3 weeks and yeild 10-15lbs of lean muscle.

PP is dosed at 15-60 mgs and is run for 4 weeks. Gains are around the same as SD but wetter due to estrogenic conversion.

Idk if extreme did say that but 4 weeks of any compound requires a PCT - and if he did he should consider reading some literature on steroids.

And you will need suppprting supplements. And your not running weak steroids to reiterate...your running 2 highly pwrful and toxic steroids.

stop being foolish and get the necessary things.

and like i said: do some research. You clearly havent. It would be wise

IMO


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

oh and this is for everyone:

ACTUAL PH's ARE STEROIDS. TOXIC AND REQUIRE PCT"S

WITH A SERM!!!! NOT AN OTC NOVEDEX etc.

pretend i shouted tht.


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

bumpy11 said:


> You cant teach this Guy hes a fool!
> 
> :axe:


bumpy if you have nothing good to say then keep your mouth zipped....


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

just been reading up....

should i get both of these

milk thistle and Androbolix

What do you suggest as a pct????


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

would anyone reccomend this as a pct

Gaspari Novadex


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

PM sent.

Anabolic innovations perfect cycle or Himalaya liv 52 will protect your liver.

If you can stretch it get cycle support by anabolic innovations and that has you covered for almost everything. I think its pricey in the UK tho.

dogfox


----------



## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

I use milk thistle daily and its a very good supplement in my opinion:

I got mine from

ZipVit Online

The Gaspari Novadex should be good as a natural test booster and certainly better than nothing

Better Bodies UK - Fitness Clothes - Sports Supplements : Novodex (60 caps) [Gaspari Novodex] - Â£34.95


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

*Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support - 120 Caps*

*i think i go with the 1 above...30 pounds*


----------



## Impossible (Dec 2, 2009)

bumpy11 said:


> PCT has nothing to do with how long you take a DS/PH its more about how badly shut down or surpressive a compound is?
> 
> Plus speedy recover equals few sides and better gains.


Hulksta,

I thought the above post was constructive but you choose to dismiss it as you have with others tactful approaches. Look to be quite honest i dont care what you do it your body and you get one chance with it. If you want to screw yourself over then your going the right way about it.

I just glad you have listened in the end and took the initiative to asked and act on getting some protective and pct in place.

Im not trying to be smart to offering sound advice on an open forum.


----------



## Impossible (Dec 2, 2009)

dogfox said:


> oh and this is for everyone:
> 
> ACTUAL PH's ARE STEROIDS. TOXIC AND REQUIRE PCT"S
> 
> ...


This statement is not entirely true either. DS is a designer steriod that need no conversion to be active so soon as you take it its active and anabolic and androgentic.

PH prohormone is one or to steps away usually from being active and needs the body to convert to its target hormone by enzymic conversion.

like the old 1-AD diol to 1-testosterone. 1-testosterone being the target hormone active steriod.

Just trying to clear it up for other you may know this dog but for others clarity is more important.

also while all DS/PH will increase liver values to some extent not all require support supplements. The are good unmethylated compounds out there which will be very safe to use.

And theres the 17a methylated and alkylated compounds with are alot harsher. So its a case or doing some research on the compound your chosing to suit your goals and then working out a proper cycle from start to finish.


----------



## Impossible (Dec 2, 2009)

hulksta said:


> just been reading up....
> 
> should i get both of these
> 
> ...


 on cycle

Try looking into NAC = n-acetyl-l-cysteine most believe this to be preferred to milk thistle in protecting the liver under stress.

Cycle support as mentioned things like hawthorn berry for blood pressure dont want nose bleeds on cycle and not know whats happing.

Off cycle iforce reversitol has been used with blood to back it up on superdrol cycle and come back fine so some might flame and say serm all the way and maybe on this 3 compound cycle your taking they my be right!


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

so which 1 ..

anabolic innovations

i force

i will be getting some milk thistle tomorrow


----------



## Outgoingguy (Apr 6, 2008)

Bumpy could you give me a study with cysteine and liver protection? Milk thistle does have litterature support (though there are better medical drugs which is why they dont use Milk Thistle for people with liver disease). Of interest to all.... a small dose of aspirin gave really good liver protection for mice.............. this looks promising and a very cheap option


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

hulksta said:


> *Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support - 120 Caps*
> 
> *i think i go with the 1 above...30 pounds*


I meant cycle support not post cycle....the one for your organs and BP is what i was refering to


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

bumpy11 said:


> This statement is not entirely true either. DS is a designer steriod that need no conversion to be active so soon as you take it its active and anabolic and androgentic.
> 
> PH prohormone is one or to steps away usually from being active and needs the body to convert to its target hormone by enzymic conversion.
> 
> ...


Thats incorrect. Most PH's dont convert - they are steroids...IE hdrol is oral turinabol with a halogenated 3rd or 6th carbon atom (i forget lol). Hence halodrol...

the PH you mentioned is weak and s**t...yes ive used it, its like weak hdrol. And i used a hefty amount.

And DS/PH are the same thing...they are just other words for steroids so they can be marketed.

Epi is a DS, PP is a DS...the words are interchangable - like uni and college.

You over thought that post way too much.

And didnt understand mine.


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

to elaborate my post was about PCT requirements for all DS/PH - nothing to do with what you went on about in the after math.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

All ph/ds need support both on and off cycle as they negatively effect the body in some way. I have seen it a million times on the forums when a company promotes one of these new products vouch how safe they are as they give huge muscle gains without effecting the hpta or liver in any way yet when I ask for bloods to back this up they cannot provide these things. These products are sometimes worse than steroids on the body as many believe they need no other product to maintain the body


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

So i have people saying 1 thing and others saying different.

Checked other forums and pretty much the same. All i want to know is

I CAN'T GET ANY NOLVA SO WHAT IS THE NEXT BEST PCT.

DO I NEED CYCLE SUPPORT ?

DO I NEED A TEST BOOSTER?

IM ASKING 3 QUESTIONS SO I ONLY WANT 3 ANSWERS BACK..

IF YES TO ALL 3 QUESTIONS THEN PLEASE NAME ALL 3

THANK YOU


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

some research done.

Im going to go with this stack

ANOBOLICS INNOVATIONS CYCLE SUPPORT

ANABOLICS INNOVATIONS POST CYCLE THERAPHY

WHEN I FINISH MASS PLEX I WILL GET H-DROL


----------



## Impossible (Dec 2, 2009)

dogfox said:


> Thats incorrect. Most PH's dont convert - they are steroids...IE hdrol is oral turinabol with a halogenated 3rd or 6th carbon atom (i forget lol). Hence halodrol...
> 
> the PH you mentioned is weak and s**t...yes ive used it, its like weak hdrol. And i used a hefty amount.
> 
> ...


Im sorry the reason they have different names is because there not the same the reason that prohormones where invented was because of the legal loop hole as they where not active steriods they needed enzymic conversion to become active steriods hence the reason they where legal untill the the got banned. Compounds like Dbol and hdrol and others you mentioned dont need conversion they are active its not just about marketing although i accept that some or maybe most use them interchangable.

the above wasnt an attack on your post but to show less informed there is a difference.

im interested that you found more success with hdrol over 1ad diol. not use hdrol so a fair comparrison im interested in. I gained 10lbs in 5 weeks on the 1 ad version 3 that wasnt a diol. I just bought the diol 1 ad and gonna use for 8 weeks 800mg stacked with 4 ad at 800mg.

Could you tell me how they differed for you?


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

H drol s**t all over it. 125mgs a day for 5 weeks.


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

hulksta said:


> some research done.
> 
> Im going to go with this stack
> 
> ...


Thats not a good idea, if you cant get a serm you shouldnt be cycling.

This is not an opinion it is a fact.

Whats your email?


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^matey youre asking to get ripped off^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

*just buy some gear it will be better for your gains ya liver and ya pocket!* :axe:


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm not gonna touch anything else apart from my protein shakes.lol. Tried ph once and thats about it. I will never touch the real gear. I never want to go down that road.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i`m confused ^^^^

you cant call yourself natural now bud

it might be legal but its still classed as gear.


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Im a natty still Cal. I was only on ph for 3 weeks out of my 3 years training. So i say 99% natty Cal. layball:


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

err yeah lol but that was what? 4 weeks ago lmfao

conversely ive been a born again natty for 3 years but am thinking of a minor dabble..


----------



## nothing2fear (Jul 7, 2007)

London1976 said:


> Im a natty still Cal. I was only on ph for 3 weeks out of my 3 years training. So i say 99% natty Cal. layball:


Lmfao... you've run a PH... PH is gear which is able to be distributed through a loop hole in the law. Afraid you're no longer natty.

Out of curiousity, why did you run your cycle short to only 3 weeks? What did you run for PCT in the end?


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

It was a 4 week cycle and i only did 3 weeks because i was getting alot of cramps in my upper and lower body. I still say im a natty because i only did it once for 3 weeks and 99% of my gains were natural. Plus thats the way its going to stay.


----------



## nothing2fear (Jul 7, 2007)

London1976 said:


> It was a 4 week cycle and i only did 3 weeks because i was getting alot of cramps in my upper and lower body. I still say im a natty because i only did it once for 3 weeks and 99% of my gains were natural. Plus thats the way its going to stay.


Thats fair enough mate, each to their own


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

London1976.

Your not natural and you dont no how to cycle. What the hell ur using or how to use it.

And worst of all you dont take solid advice.


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I agree with you dogface so thats why im staying natural. I REALLY DO LIKE BEING SKINNY WITH MUSCLES. :high5:


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

heres a question.

i`m gonna supplement with 4mg of test e a day.

i`m clearing going to be using a steroid.

but by a usual steroid users standards its a negligeable dose.

so when someone asks if i`m natural or not what do i say.

yes i`m on gear, but then am gonna feel a tit cos ive got to qualify why i`m not steroid sized lol...

i cant really say i`m only a lil bit on gear,cos you either are or you aint..

just been wondering..


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

exogenous test is exogenous test. The definition of natural isnt dose dependant. There isnt a cut of point where is sum1 cycles for so long or takes so much they are then deemed a juicer.

4mgs of exogenous (synthetic) test a day makes a natural guy nont natural anymore.

Hes taking in a mimic of his natural hormones, regardless of gains, size anything hes not natural - not all his hormones are his own


----------



## dogfox (Dec 5, 2009)

London1976 said:


> I agree with you dogface so thats why im staying natural. I REALLY DO LIKE BEING SKINNY WITH MUSCLES. :high5:


lol @ dogface


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

yeah cal i think even 4mg per day still makes ya no longer natural as its 4mg u wouldent be getting normaly so guess so, not that it should matter to anyone but yourself m8


----------



## Phill1466867973 (Sep 2, 2009)

...or people who want to compete as a natural or compete in sport hat is drugs tested.

I know when I was Javelin throwing if I found out someone I was competing against was using any form of un-natural assistance to gain an unfair advantage I'd of been pi$$ed.


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Im so sorry dogfox. I didnt mean to call you dogface. I just didnt read your name properly. Accept my apologys :nod:


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

So because i took mass plex for 3 weeks out of my 34 years of living stops me being natural ?


----------



## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

London1976 said:


> So because i took mass plex for 3 weeks out of my 34 years of living stops me being natural ?


Ah, here the problem we have is that people have different opinions of what natural is, for most people natural means whether they have used a performance enhancing drug such as steroids.

It comes down to each person's opinion, if you believe you are natural after taking a pro hormone such as mass plex then fair enough and thats true to you, even if others disagree...


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

i dont think massplex is anything like gear but as for the steroids cals gonna use it may be a low dose but its still steroids so if he takes this for 3 months and does get gains from it what should he say that they are natural gains? i could say the same i could say it doesnt count cause half the stuff iv took could have been fake so who knows whats nat or not but some one who is taking gear usually is taking a form of steroid which he is so yes he will be on the gear.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

put it this way i think you can now never compete in the bnbbf, or is 10 years clean you need to be?

theres another federation that expects you to be clean for 5 years..

if youre not going to compete,its really a mute point, but being pedantic youre about as natural as my desires.

sure thats right thunderman,will defo be on gear, just an amount no ither bugger would bother with lol...

from a hardcore naturals point of view i`m a steroid pumping freak!


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> put it this way i think you can now never compete in the bnbbf, or is 10 years clean you need to be?
> 
> theres another federation that expects you to be clean for 5 years..
> 
> ...


lol i dont think anyone expects anyone competing in bb to be clean i think thats why they have the naturals and even then iv known a few who have taken the shows who have pumped more then i could have ever lol nowadays everything is sorted with a drug of some kind were the quick fix generation but all your 4mg will add up and u will hopefully get sumthing from it gear or no gear its up to u how u come across to people . :axe:


----------



## Phill1466867973 (Sep 2, 2009)

It's 10 years for the BNBF Cal - not sure on the NPA. I'm sure their website will state such.

thunderman1 - I certainly expect natural bodybuilders to be natural tbh.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

> I certainly expect natural bodybuilders to be natural tbh.


BNBF dont do blood tests i think,they rely on lie detector tests..

i may be wrong.

just google beating the lie detector for a variety of ways to beat it.

i wouldnt like to say how natural i think the naturals are, i like to think most are, but human nature being what it is..

honestly not trying the test for training gains just hopefully well being, be fcuking handy if got some extra gains tho.

still aint convinced test e is sublingual.


----------



## Phill1466867973 (Sep 2, 2009)

They do urine testing too. I think the NPA just do urine tests.

I like to think the best in people and am not very sceptical by nature [call it gullable/naive - whatever!] so I always assume natural athletes are that, obviously on occasion and I agree with you Cal people will try and cheat, but you would like to think the testing procedures catch everyone who tries to. I think in the past the BNBF have caught some people and winners too.


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

ben johnson tested positive at the olympics as did carl lewis but u never herd of lewis results till years later if johnson had have been american he would have kept the winning spot no doubt. posibly the start of all this steroids crap


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ben johnson said in an inteview that altho he was on winny,but was convinced his sample had been messed with as he was convinced his winny should have been out of his body by the time of the drug testing.

winny-stanolozol is what he failed on.

yeah carl lewis failed some tests for small samples of amphet type compounds i think..


----------



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Stop jacking my thread guys....lol lol lollayball:


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

prob seen it but av alook the whole worlds cheating lol old vid


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

good film that


----------



## thunderman1 (Dec 25, 2009)

dont know if u seen the whole thing but its a gud watch

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]






[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]

[ame]



[/ame]


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i finally watched it about a year ago, and i wished i`d watched it sooner.

its not progear at all but also not anti either.

it just is what it is..quite sad in some ways(the WWE wannabe brother)

lol US top guns on amphets!

arnie the sellout!

be bothered and watch it chaps.


----------

