# over training



## dannyboy182 (Mar 11, 2008)

when do you know when youve over trained:whistling:


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## Críostóir (Dec 12, 2009)

how often you training danny


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Chronic fatigue, can't be bothered training, loss of appetite, strength is down - these are just a few which will give you an indication.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

IMO You should stop when youve trained to failure and done no than 3 more reps using a spotter


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## dannyboy182 (Mar 11, 2008)

good link cheers josh, train 3 times a week, pretty much 3 set of 8-12 depending on how strong im feeling, if i feel like i could go more i will


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

imo nearly all the lads in the gyms up and down the country are over training for the simple fact that they get their routines from magazines that are endorsed by genetically gifted, drug assisted bodybuilders.

It takes a lot for the body to recover from high intensity training.

It's simple!!! Training breaks down muscle tissue and food and rest build it up. So if your goal is to build muscle you should spend less time in the gym and more time eating and sleeping. Ensure you training is intense enough to stimulate growth then that's all you need.

Think of it like hitting a nail into a piece of wood. You can tap it 100 times lightly to get it in, or give it a good whack 2 or 3 times and achieve the same result. The second method is more efficient and leaves you more time to dot he things that enable growth.


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Joe, as I cycle to work ATM (1hour 20 or thereabouts a day) this obviously has some impact on recovery.

I have upped calories to cover this to a degree, but training I am sure will suffer? Normally do 2 heavy working sets for a bodypart. Any thoughts on making the best possible gains whilst limiting risk of overtraining, short of learning to drive obviously!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

LittleChris said:


> Joe, as I cycle to work ATM (1hour 20 or thereabouts a day) this obviously has some impact on recovery.
> 
> I have upped calories to cover this to a degree, but training I am sure will suffer? Normally do 2 heavy working sets for a bodypart. Any thoughts on making the best possible gains whilst limiting risk of overtraining, short of learning to drive obviously!


IMO the cycling shouldn't impair resistance training too much. The muscle cells in your legs will have adapted to this daily task, and in all likelihood will be utilising completely different metabolic systems. I think the mitochondria in your legs will be using fat as their energy source, and there shouldn't be much metabolic adaption required as the cycling load will not be increasing. As you have upped your cals to compensate this daily task, and your only doing 2 working sets on weights, you'll be fine.


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## dannyboy182 (Mar 11, 2008)

simply when you put like that bigjoe, and i can relate to that, im a carpenter


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

dannyboy182 said:


> simply when you put like that bigjoe, and i can relate to that, im a carpenter


I didn't actually answer the original question. But I hope my post gives you some thoughts about how to avoid it.


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## dannyboy182 (Mar 11, 2008)

certainly dose mate, thanx


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

You know you are over-reaching when either total load or maximal loads go down for 2 workouts in row OR when your recovery index score drops below a certain point OR when localised fatigue fails to clear etc.

You know you are overtrained because you are properly ill, tired all the time, have poor motor control, poor sleep patterns, elevated glutamate relative to glutamine levels, pick up small infections consistently and easily etc etc.

I'd hazard a guess and say no-one on this board is actually over-trained. Some might occasionally over-reach.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

I think alot of people use overtraining as an excuse as to why they arnt moving forward when the harsh reality is they probably arnt doing enough to make any gains.

you'll just know when you are overtrained!!!!


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## DAZ4966 (Nov 9, 2009)

Overtraining is very easy to do when you first start training. I remember training chest twice a week when I first started, because it was my favourite bodypart to train. I would still train chest, even with DOMS, but you realise when the gains slow down & injuries start to happen that you need to think again.

I now train 3 times a week & train each bodypart once. I stick to the basic compound movements & always go to failure. This way I have a full week to recover. I am making decent gains. As you get older, it is so important to listen to your body & allow as much rest time as possible.

For me, no more than 12 working sets for larger body parts & no more than 8 sets for bi's, tri's & calves.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

See this is where people get confused about what overtraining is. It is a GENERAL BODY condition - you cant be overtrained from doing chest twice a week.

Most people are guilty of *sh!t training *not overtraining, as Wee pointed out above.


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## DAZ4966 (Nov 9, 2009)

martin brown said:


> See this is where people get confused about what overtraining is. It is a GENERAL BODY condition - you cant be overtrained from doing chest twice a week.
> 
> Most people are guilty of *sh!t training *not overtraining, as Wee pointed out above.


Maybe you & Wee are right & I am wrong. For me, it is not a question of sh!t training, if you train a bodypart with intensity & good form, get enough sleep & have a decent diet. My interpretation is that after training any body part, you must allow enough time for the muscle to repair & hopefully grow before training it again, or you are over training it, which in turn will increase the risk of injury & stop the growth.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

DAZ4966 said:


> Maybe you & Wee are right & I am wrong. For me, it is not a question of sh!t training, if you train a bodypart with intensity & good form, get enough sleep & have a decent diet. My interpretation is that after training any body part, you must allow enough time for the muscle to repair & hopefully grow before training it again, or you are over training it, which in turn will increase the risk of injury & stop the growth.


Maybe 

You may call it "localised overtraining" lol if your hammering things too often. Again, I don't really agree with this either - it takes 72 hrs max for a muscle to recover.

Drop the failure and forced reps etc and you can easily train more often. More often = more growth gycles = more growth. That's pretty straight forward.

Real overtraining is when the body cannot function properly due to excessive stress demands. This tends not to be muscular per se.

M


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

martin brown said:


> Maybe
> 
> You may call it "localised overtraining" lol if your hammering things too often. Again, I don't really agree with this either - it takes 72 hrs max for a muscle to recover.
> 
> ...


 whole heartedly agree


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## DAZ4966 (Nov 9, 2009)

martin brown said:


> Maybe
> 
> You may call it "localised overtraining" lol if your hammering things too often. Again, I don't really agree with this either - it takes 72 hrs max for a muscle to recover.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the lesson, Martin:thumbup1:. I am always prepared to listen & learn.

I would try this method of training, but due to family & work commitments etc, I can only train 3 days per week, hence why I do the "train it hard" once a week policy. I find, especially with chest & legs, that I am not fully recovered after 72 hours, but as you say, the "less is more" option is better suited to stimulate growth.

To back up your claim, I have been watching the multitude of videos on YouTube from Kevin Levrone (Levrone report). The majority of sets he does are not to failiure & it is working for him, as he tries to put size back on.


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## freeline (Dec 12, 2009)

i agree with the chap who mentioned that you "will just know" when you are over training. I over trained for quite a while running 3 xs p/d for around 5-7 miles each, 1 run being a fartlek style and then i trained with resistance weights after on the evening pushing hard. Once after some hill climbing runs and then legs i had to physically crawl up my stairs on my hands i couldnt move my legs.

my body suffered to the point where i had a perma-cold, i once slept for 17 hours straight through, looked like I escaped from Auschwitz and my mood swings were interesting to say the least.

I did this for a reason and i was monitored when doing it as well.


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## freeline (Dec 12, 2009)

i should mention i did that 6 times p/w too.


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## simonj (Oct 19, 2006)

Bodybuilding seems to be one of the only sports where there is a constant fear of overtraining; I'd guess it stems mainly from the Mentzer/Dorian Yates style of training.

I remember reading in Science and Practice of Strength Training (Zatsiorsky) that the Bulgarian weightlifting team were training up to 6 hours per day. I've worked with rugby teams who can train 2-3 x daily; endurance athletes who train 2-3 times daily, etc.

The difference is that other athletes train in a periodised fashion whereas bodybuilders, typcially, do the same thing week after week. Can people train 2-3 times a day, 12 months of a year? No. Is it possible to have specific meso/microcycles with higher volume? IMO, yes.

100m runners can't run sub 10seconds year round, yet bodybuilders often expect to be lifting PBs every week. That leads to overtraining. Periodising doesn't.


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## DAZ4966 (Nov 9, 2009)

freeline said:


> i agree with the chap who mentioned that you "will just know" when you are over training. I over trained for quite a while running 3 xs p/d for around 5-7 miles each, 1 run being a fartlek style and then i trained with resistance weights after on the evening pushing hard. Once after some hill climbing runs and then legs i had to physically crawl up my stairs on my hands i couldnt move my legs.
> 
> my body suffered to the point where i had a perma-cold, i once slept for 17 hours straight through, looked like I escaped from Auschwitz and my mood swings were interesting to say the least.
> 
> I did this for a reason and i was monitored when doing it as well.


You did this for a reason? What, to see how much your body would handle before packing in!

You are one crazy guy. Was it worth it?

By the way, what is "fartlek" style of running:confused1:


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## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

DAZ4966 said:


> You did this for a reason? What, to see how much your body would handle before packing in!
> 
> You are one crazy guy. Was it worth it?
> 
> ...


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

martin brown said:


> See this is where people get confused about what overtraining is. It is a GENERAL BODY condition - you cant be overtrained from doing chest twice a week.
> 
> Most people are guilty of *sh!t training *not overtraining, as Wee pointed out above.


 :thumbup1: :thumbup1:

Eloquently put as well:lol:


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

martin brown said:


> See this is where people get confused about what overtraining is. It is a GENERAL BODY condition - you cant be overtrained from doing chest twice a week.
> 
> Most people are guilty of *sh!t training *not overtraining, as Wee pointed out above.





martin brown said:


> Maybe
> 
> You may call it "localised overtraining" lol if your hammering things too often. Again, I don't really agree with this either - it takes 72 hrs max for a muscle to recover.
> 
> ...





glen danbury said:


> whole heartedly agree





simonj said:


> Bodybuilding seems to be one of the only sports where there is a constant fear of overtraining; I'd guess it stems mainly from the Mentzer/Dorian Yates style of training.
> 
> I remember reading in Science and Practice of Strength Training (Zatsiorsky) that the Bulgarian weightlifting team were training up to 6 hours per day. I've worked with rugby teams who can train 2-3 x daily; endurance athletes who train 2-3 times daily, etc.
> 
> ...


Is it just me or do all of us have a background / interest in sports training outside of Bodybuilding?


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

Wee G said:


> Is it just me or do all of us have a background / interest in sports training outside of Bodybuilding?


i used to swim at national level and between being in the pool 8 times a week, 3 gym seesions on top of that i used to feel tired but never overtrained. as soon as i was going to compete the training would taper down. thats why i laugh when people on here say they are overtrained as it takes a ridiculous amount to reach that state!


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

I compete in PL'ing and train people for general fitness and have done programs and conditioning for fighters.

I'm not anti BB'ing though - I'm from a pedegree BB'ing gym


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

martin brown said:


> I compete in PL'ing and train people for general fitness and have done programs and conditioning for fighters.
> 
> I'm not anti BB'ing though - I'm from a pedegree BB'ing gym


ive got a mate of mine whos been pl'ng for a coule of years now, won a couple of british titles i belive. watching them train with the poundages they do is frightening and makes you realise just how much effort goes in to it:thumbup1:


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## simonj (Oct 19, 2006)

Wee G said:


> Is it just me or do all of us have a background / interest in sports training outside of Bodybuilding?


Good observation. Clearly you have a wealth of knowledge away from traditional bodybuilding views.

I've a swimming background (not national level like Russ) and would train morning and evening some days and played 1-2 football matches per week as well as various other things. I currently work across a range of sports (football, rugby, triathlon, etc).

I've competed in a few bodybuilding shows and am constantly told in the run up, by people who mean well, "you're overtraining."


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

I like the way this thread has turned

At what point do you think age comes into the equation ie 72 hours recovery max

or maybe not at all as long as diet is kept up??

Martin, would all your clients train bodyparts every 72/96 hours or do you think intensity

can expand this figure?

Do you think the CNS can cope with copious amounts of sets/reps (as wee g is doing) or

is there an overload signal that you can be guided by, hopefully before the onset of what

I would call proper overtraining?


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## vinnievinnie (Jul 13, 2009)

chrisj22 said:


> Chronic fatigue, can't be bothered training, loss of appetite, strength is down - these are just a few which will give you an indication.


 I feel this at the minute?

Havent for a while though, I go gym 4-5 times a week and train every muscle group, past 2 times ive been this week though I havent been able to lift as much and I couldnt get my mind into it what so ever

Do I need a break from it or what?


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

vinnievinnie said:


> I feel this at the minute?
> 
> Havent for a while though, I go gym 4-5 times a week and train every muscle group, past 2 times ive been this week though I havent been able to lift as much and I couldnt get my mind into it what so ever
> 
> Do I need a break from it or what?


Sort your training out first. If you have been twice this week and you cant lift as much that tells me your training plan stinks!



tel3563 said:


> I like the way this thread has turned
> 
> At what point do you think age comes into the equation ie 72 hours recovery max
> 
> ...


I would have everyone but bodybuilders doing large movements hitting same groups at least twice a week. Especially strength athletes and fighters.

Of course there are variables that change this. Intensity shouldn't though in it's true sense. I use high intensity (loads over 90% 1RM) twice a week, virtually every week. The key is to know how to manage the work load. The key in my personal training is variety of exercise - without which I would stall pretty fast.

If you are referring to training to beyond failure then yes more rest is required. I really don't see the need for this approach though unless you are a bodybuilder in the strict sense of the term.

As you get older there are small hormonal changes that will slow recovery slightly, but these tend to really kick in after 50-60 or so. Take a look at the Masters powerlifting records for a good example of how strong people can be aged 40-59. It's scary! If you slow down your body slows too. I see no real reason to do this though until you really are later in life.

It's almost like the bodybuilder's who start dieting and immediatley use light weight and high reps - the result is small weak muscles. Give yourself a reason to be big and strong and the body will adapt.

The CNS can cope with ALOT. It's all dependant upon conditioning it to do so. Jumping onto a 30hr training week like the Chinese weightlifters, maxing front squats in a morning and deadlifts in the evening followed by a day of max back squats, will see overtraining problems pretty fast for most of us! But build up volume, load, intensity and have some method to offset overtraining - like periodisation, recovery, variety etc and you can quickly increase work capacity. Things like the shekio programs are an example of this.

M


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

I think the problem most bodybuilders see is they like to hammer right into there system with failure and beyond and then wonder why they feel drained

for me my legs are my most built bodypart and the only real constant in my leg training is heavy squating - never to failure (well hardly ever as i dont like that stick to the power rack pins in a squashed position that results from it) and I made the most progress on this exercise.

the problem when most bodybuilders increase volume and frequency is they never adapt the other modalities of training as they have been brainwashed by the failure and beyond mentality for so long.

in fact I would say sympathetic overtraining would occur more from all the advanced techniques than would increasing volume and frequency - especially considering the use of preworkout stimulants the most bodybuilders use now


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Do you think there is a place for failure and beyond training then Glen? If so when?

I do it, but then only two working sets per bodypart and split the body over 10days. Don't feel tired normally, though will have a week with higher reps and slightly less weight.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

yeah, dont get me wrong i do go to failure and do occasionally use an advanced technique - but its judicious use of an appopriate technique

all the different techniques have pros and cons and different physical reponses so you choose the appropriate one for the training goal

but I just think people never look at changing other variables when they increase frequency or volume and then come back and say that volume or high frequency doesnt work


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Glen,

Agree and think that a lot of that stems from the BBing mentaility being such that many cannot bring themselves to train lighter, or with less perceived exertion / fatigue - I honestly believe that most recreational / low level BBers are more concerned with their own and other peoples perception of their training than they are with actual progress in Bodybuilding.

They would rather boast about training "hard" and look the same for the next ten years than train in a more productive manner that would lead to them being held in lower regard by their peer group.

Good point also on choosing appropriate combinations of load / volume / intensity / RPE as well - it's that old "neccesry but antagonistic factors" chestnut again 

Tel - Regarding the cellular response to training, hormonal factors change in old age, include response to training mech IGF1 etc, but only really in much older age. I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet. As Glen and Martin said above, as long as you pay attention to periodising training load in some fashion, CNS will be fine as well.

cheers,

G


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Wee G said:


> Glen,
> 
> Agree and think that a lot of that stems from the BBing mentaility being such that many cannot bring themselves to train lighter, or with less perceived exertion / fatigue - I honestly believe that most recreational / low level BBers are more concerned with their own and other peoples perception of their training than they are with actual progress in Bodybuilding.
> 
> ...


Great thread fellas, nice to have something interesting instead of "1st cycle

advice needed":whistling:

Wee, do you mean a deloading stage or just a variation in weights and reps,

ie I would normally change my rep range to 12/15 for a 4-6 week period, I kind

of use it to rest my joints a little from the heavier lifts.

Must say I'm definitely thinking of a total revamp, I like the idea of training more

tbh, I'm favouring a low reps day followed by a high reps day atm, training bp's

every 5th day.

:beer:


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Tel,

This might help give you some ideas mate...there are loads more possibilities than just sets and reps! Long excerpts below but hopefully worth while...

--------------

1. How many sets performed per exercise.

2. How many reps performed per set.

3. The weight on the bar.

4. The exercises performed.

5. Total volume of work.

6. Rest periods between sets.

7. The density of work. i.e. how many lifts at what % of a maximum divided by the time taken to perform the lifts including rest periods.

8. The speed of the movements performed, including the amortization phase, concentric phase, and eccentric phase.

9. The order in which exercises are performed.

10. Frequency of training the same muscle groups / movements.

The Inverse Relationships between Variables.

There is an inverse relationship between intramuscular tension (torque) and displayed force with a given weight due to bar speed. If you take a weight of 50Kg and bench press it as fast as you can you will display a lot of force as (at the simplest level and assuming constant velocity etc) Force is equal to mass times acceleration. However you will also prevent strong attachments being made between actin and myosin sheets due to the restricted time available for them to form and therefore reduce torque.

Think of this as pressing two sheets of Velcro together quickly then quickly pulling them apart again. Now imagine pressing the sheets together slowly and firmly before slowly peeling them apart - there will be far more "stick". This is what happens when you perform a repetition slowly. This increase in intramuscular tension should create an increase in growth BUT you must always remember that as speed of movement gets lower and lower so does the mass of the bar.

You can only use a low percentage of a 1RM if you wish to perform a moderate number of reps with a slow tempo - think of the load on the bar as being how "hard" you are pushing the Velcro sheets together - it's no use to simply waft two sheets close by each other, you have to apply some pressure to get them to stick! Therefore the "best" combination of these two factors is unobtainable in one single set performed at one speed. - the load will either be too heavy or the speed of movement too fast!

A similar inverse relationship exists between load and the build-up of fatigue by products such as lactic acid. We know that the "burn" only comes along when we do a relatively high number of repetitions, but this necessitates using a lighter load.

Another problem is that volume (the amount of training done during a given period of time) and intensity (the difficulty of training) are both necessary, but also antagonistic, facets of the training load. When volume is high, intensity is low, and vice-versa. An ancient saying among weight lifters is "You can work hard, and you can work long, but you can't work hard for long." This is one of the few instances where the folklore is correct.

The final inverse relationship is between microtrauma and training frequency - the more trauma you inflict, the less often you will be able to train without risking injury.

Summary

If a balance can be struck between these factors and they can be systematically moved "ever upwards" then the result is bigger muscles. The problems are as follows:

We can not constantly increase the intensity of the stimulus in a linear manner without the nervous system becoming overtrained.

We can not continually create microtrauma without incurring injury eventually. If you break down muscle fibres continually and never let them heal then eventually something has to give.

We can not constantly increase the training load (work done) and subsequent protein degradation without ending up in the gym for 12 hours a day and overtraining the nervous system.

We can not induce sufficient mechanical stress with light weights due to a lack of tension.

We can not create favourable metabolic conditions for growth with heavy loads due to a lack of reps and subsequent fatigue bi-products.

Obviously this leads us to try to strike a balance between the factors. One way to do this is to

emphasise one factor at a time (workout or longer phase) whilst maintaining others and controlling the overall volume of work performed. This idea of maintaining / training all variables but to varying degrees at different times is referred to as conjugate periodisation.

This all leads us on to the idea of using multiple stimuli either in one workout or one micro cycle and away from the traditional approach of using one type of training (e.g. 3 sets of 10 at a moderate tempo) for all of our training, all the time. It also paves the way for an approach in which the total volume of work done, and it's relative intensity, fluctuates over time.

In this way you can cover all of the possible mechanisms of hypertrophy in each cycle and therefore get as much growth as possible out of your training.

-------------------------

Taking the above into consideration I usually suggest decreasing rest periods, then increasing volume, then finally increasing weight n the bar and decreasing volume again. In the UHT book I put down one simple way of doing that.

Anyother way involving 2 sessions is to flatline a low rep session and add volume to a high rep session. This would give you the structure you mentioned above. I'm doing this just now, but on a very large scale (I trained high volume / frequency for Strength for years, I can cope).

How about something like this for each bodypart, using different exercises at session 1 and 2. Session 1 could be 2 or 3 bodyparts, session 2 would probably be upper or lower body or even whole body.

Week 1.

Session 1 - 3 x 15 reps with 18 RM - 60s rest - 2-3 exercises / bodypart.

Session 2 - Max rest pause reps with 10RM in 2 minutes - 1 exercise per bodypart.

Week 2

Session 1 - 5 x 15 with 18RM - 30s rest - 3 exercises / bodypart

Session 2 - Max rest pause reps with 8RM in 2 minutes - 1 exercise per BP.

Week 3

Session 1 - 4 x 12 with 15RM - 30s rest - 3 exercises / bodypart

Session 2 - Work up to new 6RM, eg 1 set of 6 reps.

Week 4

Session 1 - 3 x Max with 10 RM - 1 min rest - 3 exercises per BP

Session 2 - New exercise, start rep cycle again - Max with 10RM in 2 mins.

Week 5

Session 1 - 2 x max with 10RM+, whatever rest you need, 2 exercises / BP

Session 2 - Max with 8RM in 2 mins

Week 6

Session 1 2 x max with 10RM ++ , whatever rest you need, 2 exercises / BP

Session 2 - Work up to new 6RM.

Week 7 - 1 x 20 with very light load, slow tempo, 1 session only, 1 set per bodypart

OR

Week off entirely.

That could be made to work with lots of splits, allows for a small volume load followed by increasing weights, changes exercises when the neural stress gets high on the low rep day and allow a week to decondition so light-ish loads are effective in the next cycle.

Cheers,

G


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Can this be adapted to training each bp every 4 days? I really wanted to give this a go as

I've trained each bp once a week or longer for as long as I can remember, just thinking I may get

more out of it, it will certainly be a change


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Tel,

Every 4 days is defo going to be more worthwhile that once a week! give it a shot, lay out what you have in mind for the sessions!


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Will do Wee, just one question mate

Is RM the rep speed? reps per min?

I'm thinking a bit like push pull legs

I was kinda thinking like this

Session 1 Back, Bi's, Traps

Session 2 Quads, Calves, Hams

day off

Session 1 Chest Tri's Shoulders

Session 2 Back Bi Traps

Day off

Session 1 Quads Calves Hams

Session 2 Chest Shoulders Tri's

Day off


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Rep max, as in 10 rep max = weight you can JUST do 10 reps with.

so

Week 1.

Session 1 - 3 x 15 reps with 18 RM - 60s rest - 2-3 exercises / bodypart.

3 sets of 15 reps for each exercise, using a weight you could do 18 reps with if you went to absolute failure, 60 seconds rest between each set, and 2-3 different exercises.

Session 2 - Max rest pause reps with 10RM in 2 minutes - 1 exercise per bodypart.

Warm up till you have a 10 rep max weight on the bar. Do as many reps as you can in 2 minutes with that weight, resting whenever you want within the 2 minute time limit.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

ahh, so I have it wrong!!

If I was to put weights and exercises down could you give me an example of a week?

Session 1 I calculated 18RM as 40% of 1RMax??

Quads: Squat 75 Leg Press 120 Leg Extensions 20

Calves: Standing Raise 110 Seated Raise 40

Hams: SLDL 60 Seated Leg Curl 70

Session 2

Chest: Bench 110kg DB Incline 40kg Weighted Dip 10kg (should I have an iso in here?)

Shoulder: Seated DB Press 35 Lateral Raise 17.5 Reverse Pec Dec 77

Triceps: Lying EZ Skull Crushers 50 Straight bar push down 85

Then Day off, then what mate?? Do back with session 1 of week 2?? I is a bit confused


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## Footsoldier (Jul 26, 2008)

i can recall the words of big arnie saying " there is no over training just under eating" im guessing the body is like a car keep fueling it and it will run like it should stop fueling it and it will not run until you fuel it again.

i prob just spoke some mess there but thats the way i see it

footsoldier


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## vinnievinnie (Jul 13, 2009)

Wow that was a big read that was

Im not sure If I took it all in but will keep coming back to it, I might start again and see what happens, As if I no **** all and never have and then see what happens

Been training for long enough now and different every time, I got too my best though when not doing as much and many sets in the gym, lately it hasnt been working doing what I have been


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

tel3563 said:


> I is a bit confused


Hehehehe - no worries, if i was speaking to you in person this would take 30s to explain I'm sure...lol.

Give me a list of exercises you want to use in the "Session 1" type workouts,2- 3 of em per bodypart. These can be anything.

Give me a list of ONE exercise per bodypart you want to use in the heavier day (session 2). Try to keep these free weight based and compound.

From that I will write out the first 3 weeks and it will click in to place 

Cheers dude, sorry this is tough, sometimes my typing is not as clear as it looks to me when I read it back


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Wee G said:


> Hehehehe - no worries, if i was speaking to you in person this would take 30s to explain I'm sure...lol.
> 
> Give me a list of exercises you want to use in the "Session 1" type workouts,2- 3 of em per bodypart. These can be anything.
> 
> ...


when you say session 1, is it an overall body workout, or can I split it to

Push pull legs??, same with session 2

I've just looked at your web site again and still coulnd't get it:laugh:

I'm not a lover of going over 45 mins in the gym, 1 hour tops, or is this

bunkum as well ie glycogen can only fuel 45 mins of intense exercise??


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Oh the irony of it all. I've just spent all day in bed with hot and cold flushes, dizziness, headaches, belly ache, coughing, feeling sick, heartburn, fatigue, fever and muscle aches. Probably a virus or something, but you tend to get these when the body is low, usually from over training.


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Tel....

Here is a weeks training, (8 days "week") with any old exercises chosen, training things approximately every 4 days as you wanted.

Just follow the set and rep template for each week and there you have it.

Day 1. Session 1

Legs.

Quads: Front Squat.* Leg Press. Leg Extensions.

Calves: Standing Raise.* Seated Raise.

Hams: SLDL. Seated Leg Curl.*

Day 2 Off.

Day 3. Session 1.

Push.

Hammer Bench Press. Incline Dumbbell.* Cable Crossover.

DB Overhead Press. Side laterals.*

Skull Crushers. Rope Pushdowns.*

Day 4. Session 2

Lower Body

Squat. Rack Deadlift.

Day 5.

Session 1

Pull.

Wide Pulldowns.* Supinated Pulldowns. Rows.

DB shrugs.* BB shrugs

DB curls.* BB curls

Day 6.

Off.

Day 7.

Session 2 - Upper Body Push.

Bench Press.

Overhead Press.

Close Grip Bench.

Day 8.

Session 2 - Upper Body Pull

BB Row

Chin up

BB curl

Not: In week 5, when the volume needs to drop, just drop the exercises marked with a * from Session 1.

--------------

Set / Rep template for each week.

Week 1.

Session 1 = 3 x 15 reps with 18 RM - 60s rest.

Session 2 = Max rest pause reps with 10RM in 2 minutes.

Week 2

Session 1 = 5 x 15 with 18RM - 30s rest.

Session 2 = Max rest pause reps with 8RM in 2 minutes.

Week 3

Session 1 = 4 x 12 with 15RM - 30s rest.

Session 2 = Work up to new 6RM, eg 1 maximal set of 6 reps.

Week 4

Session 1 = 3 x Max with 10 RM - 1 min rest.

Session 2 = New exercise, start rep cycle again - Max with 10RM in 2 mins.

Week 5

Session 1 = 2 x max with 10RM+, whatever rest you need.

Session 2 = Max with 8RM in 2 mins

Week 6

Session 1 = 2 x max with 10RM ++ , whatever rest you need, 2 exercises / BP

Session 2 = Work up to new 6RM.

Week 7 - 1 x 20 with very light load, slow tempo, 1 session only, 1 set per bodypart

OR

Week off entirely.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Thats great info Wee, just about understanding it now:lol:

Question:

Wee I'm just about to come off a blast (bit of a long one, 10wks) and will be cruising for 8-10

weeks, now a cruise is supposed to be a bit of a deload and rest for the joints/ligaments.

This is Ideal yes?? As in not going to failure all the time, a lot of high rep sessions, deload weeks etc

whats your take?


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Tel,

what was your normal set and rep scheme like when on blast?

Is the above less volume or more than you'd normally do during a blast?


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

Footsoldier said:


> i can recall the words of big arnie saying " there is no over training just under eating" im guessing the body is like a car keep fueling it and it will run like it should stop fueling it and it will not run until you fuel it again.
> 
> i prob just spoke some mess there but thats the way i see it
> 
> footsoldier


Yes but Arnold did over train which is why even with his genetics which I doubt will be matched he was 'only' 232lb ripped, with underdeveloped legs. Not my opinion, someome in the knows.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Wee G said:


> Tel,
> 
> what was your normal set and rep scheme like when on blast?
> 
> Is the above less volume or more than you'd normally do during a blast?


I'd do a lot less reps wise, very intense though, normally go to 1RM on initial

compound then a couple of exercises to finish off.

Don't get me wrong, good progress but just fancy something different, would

like to train bp's a couple of times a week, not going to failure, just to see what

happens


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## dannyboy182 (Mar 11, 2008)

think i may of opened up a bit of a debate here


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