# 19YO Georgeys DNP fat loss transformation with pics



## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

Hi guys hope you all are well.. just a little info about me before I tell you how I got on with my fat loss journey.

Iv'e had a really bad 1 and a half year, with a lot of personal battles within my life which I had to face which unfortunatley made me put on a lot of weight. I went from a lean 80kg to a staggering fat sloppy 98kg. *(Pics will be provided at bottom of thread)*.

I started to eat a lot of junk as I had an operation which made me sit at home and watch a lot of telly and just eat a lot of crap. So as you would imagine I was knocked off the gym wagon and became a couch potato.

I was at such a point in my life where I sat at home day and night eating..sleeping and TV. NO exercise what so ever.

As I started to gain weight.. I had more and more people come up to me and tell me how overweight I had become.. not in nasty ways.. but all the people around me like my family..friends.. local people etc.Because they all knew me as the gym lad who had a pretty decent body.

As people would make these remarks It really really knocked my confidence even more and just lead me into a deeper dark whole than I was before.

I stayed around 98kg for 4-5 months.. everywhere I would go.. people would comment on my weight gain.. I was sick of it.

Not only was I sick of peoples remarks but I had to fight.. fight for my life because as I said I was not in a very good state and I wanted to get my life up and running again and get fitter and healthier both within me and outside.

Im not going to lie I saw a lot of threads about DNP.. about the rapid fat loss gains which did appeal to me...but that it was not too be taken lightly. I was not expecting SUPER results if im honest.. I just wanted to get back to my self and wanted a boost..and get that kick.

So I researched and researched and asked guys on the forum who happily gave me good advice which has benefited me in the long run.

I also read threads and threads all over the internet as well as peoples first hand experiences.

*
So heres what I took..when I took it and how it went!!*

19 years old

98kg

5ft11

not sure about BF but something crazy

waist-40inches

Cycle length:10 full weeks.

*D-hacks DNP*: 125mg-250mg-which I was lucky enought to get in the nick of time.. if you guys get what im saying 

*D-hacks T3*: 50mcg ED

*VitC*: 3000mg ED

*VitE*: 800 iu ED

*L-Carnitine*:

*Multi vit*:

*My protein Electrolyte* tabs:1ED

*Minimum 4L water* ED

The multi vits were to reduce free radicals in my body which are caused and increased by DNP.. which are obviously bad for the body...so they kept my insides in check.

Electrolytes were to replace key minerals in my body which you loose in sweat and when on DNP you sweat alot!!

L-Carnitine is an amino acid which utilities ones own body fat as energy.

T3 has to be supplemented with dnp because in short DNP causes the bodys own T3 to stop being produced.. and if T3 is not present in the body then a lot of negative side effects are caused which people regularly complain of such as extreme sweating..dehydration..headaches..extreme muscle loss etc.

I was not bothered about muscle loss one bit because Iv'e got barley naff all in regards to muscle on my body anyways.

So my diet was not the standard.. high protein low carbs etc.

8:00am-black sugar free coffee

1:00pm-5 different fruits and veg with protein shake.

6:00pm-sweet potatoe with grilled fish or chicken.

I ate the bare minimum as much as I could handle because I wanted to loose the most amount of weight as fast as I could.

I must say though with simple sugars you sweat like fvuck..dont know why but thats just what DNP does.

I was just snacking on fruit..

I had a full dairy milk chocolate after a week which I was craving like mad.. and I was sweating like mad and did'nt taste as good as I thought it would :/

I wanted to asses how my body reacts to it so I started of with 12mg a day for 6 days.. I did'nt see any changes in sweating except for a few pound weight loss which Im guessing was water weight.

After week one I upped the dose to 250mg which I stayed at for quite a while.. and for a day or two -here and there I would alternate between 125 and 250 if sides were getting a bit to much.

For me sides were MUCH MUCH more manageable if one dose was taken first thing in the morning and second dose in the evening. Sides were barley noticable if im honest except for lerthargy..and a bit of sweat not loads.. just a bit more than usual.

At day 10.. I had fresh red strectch marks around my waist so I knew this was some lethal shizzle and was obviously working 

Throughtout the cycle.. I was very LETHARGIC.. could not be asked to do anything.. I dont know how people stay at 500mg for more than even a day! Which I do not plan on trying.

My cardio was 2 hours a day.. once on an empty stomach and once in the evening.

It involved running..walking..power walking..skipping..stepper.. etc just mixed it about so I did'nt get bord.

This was me when I was 17 years old in the summer of 2011:



This is me at 19 years old looking awful on april the 17th just a day before I started my cycle:



Me today:



*Start weight:98kg*

*
End weight:81kg*

*
Weight loss:18kg*

Im about 82 so a total fat loss of 17kg and 1 kg gain of water.

I feel so so so much happier with my self.. I fit in all my old clothes!! I did'nt wear jeans for almost 2 years!! always in tracksuit bottoms!

Im very very horny lol because when you hold alot of fat.. you test decreases and bodys oestrogen production elevates.

Everyone now tells me that im looking skinny!! and dont look built and need to get lifting weight.. lol it just makes me laugh because Iv'e realised people will never be happy wheter you do good or bad.. but I did it for my self and can not be happier.

My plan is to carry on eatin healthy..training hard and hopefully come september ill have lost at least half a stone more.. and then I will lean bulk and try to stay as lean as possible.

Any one can do this anyone.. I would not in a million years recommend anybody to take DNP because it is very dangerous unless they research properly and know what there getting into.. remember its just a supplements and not a magic pill.

It takes patience..dedication and willpower.

Thank you to this forum and its members for all its support and help I really appreciate it. 

Thank you too @DiggyV for all his help.. I really appreciate it brother.


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## aj90 (Jul 30, 2011)

where are you from mate? which gym is that first pic at?

good results! time to gain some muscle back now


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

aj90 said:


> where are you from mate? which gym is that first pic at?
> 
> good results! time to gain some muscle back now


cheers

yorkshire mate and fitness first.. why?


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.

It looks like even with DNP your body just went into starvation mode because you were eating so little and doing cardio, you went overboard, less isnt always more, I reckon if you actually ate more you would have lost more fat.

But as long as your happy mate, and healthy lol.


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

Poke said:


> Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.
> 
> It looks like even with DNP your body just went into starvation mode because you were eating so little and doing cardio, you went overboard, less isnt always more, I reckon if you actually ate more you would have lost more fat.
> 
> But as long as your happy mate, and healthy lol.


Cheers for the advice mate.. maybe so but im am very happy so not complaining one bit


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## aj90 (Jul 30, 2011)

georgey said:


> cheers
> 
> yorkshire mate and fitness first.. why?


ahh right thou it was same gym as me, mine was a fitness first too very similar looking


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## Ricky12345 (Jun 13, 2012)

Nice results now get that size back from ya younger days was looking good


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## Ricky12345 (Jun 13, 2012)

Just noticed what u was eating u must off been starving lol


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## Cam93 (May 20, 2010)

complete monster at 17!

right to assume not natty at 17 though? monster reguardless.


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Well done pal


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Poke said:


> Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.


Hes lost 40 lbs in 10 weeks, keto wont get the same results


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

Cam93 said:


> complete monster at 17!
> 
> right to assume not natty at 17 though? monster reguardless.


Thank you mate

No I was not natty unfortunatley.. that was after just an 8 week low dose cycle of test tren and mast mate.

Biggest regret ever


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Doing well so far mate.

getting back on track.

Just keep on pushing & you'll soon be a monster again (naturally?)


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

xpower said:


> Doing well so far mate.
> 
> getting back on track.
> 
> Just keep on pushing & you'll soon be a monster again (naturally?)


Thank you X ! Im trying mate hopefulyy this time next year.. there will be some big improvements!

Unfortunatley when that picture was taken no I was not natty.. .. BIG REGRET though because I could have gone a lot further and then I should have taken AAS after some a few good solid years of training.. but dosent matter now lol live and learn I say!


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

As you say,Live n learn.

Now you can use all those free hormones you have


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## Adz (Jan 29, 2008)

Well done, thats an impressive loss


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

good work mate, great transformation, and it was no trouble. :thumb:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.
> 
> It looks like even with DNP your body just went into starvation mode because you were eating so little and doing cardio, you went overboard, less isnt always more, I reckon if you actually ate more you would have lost more fat.
> 
> But as long as your happy mate, and healthy lol.


Keto wouldn't have got you anywhere near this level of losses. basic maths will show you that. Keto is not a magic bullet, and IF you even got close to 4lbs a week, you would be catabolising serious amounts of muscle.


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## jaycue2u (Jul 23, 2011)

Poke said:


> Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.


Not that impressive?? Seriously???


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## Proteen Paul (Apr 6, 2012)

Poke said:


> *Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


Utter sh1te !


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Madoxx said:


> Hes lost 40 lbs in 10 weeks, keto wont get the same results


How much of that was fat? not all of it.

My point was, he could have got similar results in terms of bf% from dieting .


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Poke said:


> How much of that was fat? not all of it.
> 
> My point was, he could have got similar results in terms of bf% from dieting .


Nah, DNP is muscle sparing. It will be pretty much all fat he lost.

Keto on a big deficit will eat your muscle too.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Nah, DNP is muscle sparing. It will be pretty much all fat he lost.
> 
> Keto on a big deficit will eat your muscle too.


Not really, take DNP without AAS and its pretty much like being at a huge 50% caloric deficit and you will loose muscle.

Keto with a 500cal deficit and refeed ou can even gain Muscle and lose fat iver anshort period if done properly


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Poke said:


> Not really, take DNP without AAS and its pretty much like being at a huge 50% caloric deficit and you will loose muscle.
> 
> Keto with a 500cal deficit and refeed ou can even gain Muscle and lose fat iver anshort period if done properly


Thats not how DNP works. It targets carbs and throws them off and uses fats for energy, and effectively up-regulates your metabolic rate. Any muscle loss on DNP is down to either using T3 along side it, not eating anything at all, or you just imagine its eaten muscle because it depletes your glycogen stores.


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## tommygunnz (Feb 17, 2011)

is this you???!?1?!?!?!?!?

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Cutting-course-Higher-dose-for-shorter-time-or-smaller-dose-for-longer-m4720964.aspx


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Not really, take DNP without AAS and its pretty much like being at a huge 50% caloric deficit and you will loose muscle.
> 
> Keto with a 500cal deficit and refeed ou can even gain Muscle and lose fat iver anshort period if done properly


Nope, wrong.

DNP is an energy uncoupler, and works in a completely different way to straight calorie deficit. DNP is massively muscle sparing. It basically stops efficient energy production in your cells mitochondria. Forces any carbs to be burned off - hence the massive heat from any simple carbs, and high heat from any complex carbs. It depletes glycogen, muscles look flat, and forces fats to be used for energy.

It effectively raises your metabolic rate by 10-15% per 100mg that you have in you (not per 100mg taken - as the long half life means it build up).

Without AAS, and with a high protein diet, you shouldn't really lose any muscle. With AAS you may even gain a little (I have) however at a reduced rate as you cant get the all important carbs in post-workout.

There is so much crap written about DNP, both by people promoting its use, and by those taking a negative stance on it, without really understanding how it works, and the basis for the weight loss.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Nope, wrong.
> 
> DNP is an energy uncoupler, and works in a completely different way to straight calorie deficit. DNP is massively muscle sparing. It basically stops efficient energy production in your cells mitochondria. Forces any carbs to be burned off - hence the massive heat from any simple carbs, and high heat from any complex carbs. It depletes glycogen, muscles look flat, and forces fats to be used for energy.
> 
> ...


Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?


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## tommygunnz (Feb 17, 2011)

OP is your name Dave?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Yeah what Diggy said... i just couldn't be bothered writing that much


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Thats not how DNP works. It targets carbs and throws them off and uses fats for energy, and effectively up-regulates your metabolic rate. Any muscle loss on DNP is down to either using T3 along side it, not eating anything at all, or you just imagine its eaten muscle because it depletes your glycogen stores.


DNP continuously depletes your glycogen, meaning any carbs you eat aren't enough to fill your muscles fast enough and are used for energy, and because you are depleted you burn fat, and are at a big deficit.

When you are depleted, and at a huge deficit, without any AAS use or even refeeds you will lose muscle... Simple.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?


Your attitude stinks when someone disagrees with you. Nothing wrong with healthy scepticism and debate, but why do you have to get insulting? And not this thread only btw.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

squatthis said:


> Your attitude stinks when someone disagrees with you. Nothing wrong with healthy scepticism and debate, but why do you have to get insulting? And not this thread only btw.


Excuse me? You reading the same thread? I have t insulted anyone mate. I just said something, someone disagreed with me and made claims, and I asked if those claims were actually based on scientific research or are they just being spouted for the same of it.

What does DNP do to activly preserve muscle tissue? It doesn't, your body will lose muscle tissue used as energy in the op's circumstance.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Poke said:


> Not that impressive tbh, could have got the same resaults with Keto and refeeds and no dnp.
> 
> It looks like even with DNP your body just went into starvation mode because you were eating so little and doing cardio, you went overboard, less isnt always more, I reckon if you actually ate more you would have lost more fat.
> 
> But as long as your happy mate, and healthy lol.


Yet another post from poke showing how clueless you are, can you show me the pics when you have achieved the same weight loss with keto? How can you browse a board so much and still know nothing about training.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> DNP continuously depletes your glycogen, meaning any carbs you eat aren't enough to fill your muscles fast enough and are used for energy, and because you are depleted you burn fat, and are at a big deficit.
> 
> When you are depleted, and at a huge deficit, without any AAS use or even refeeds you will lose muscle... Simple.





Poke said:


> Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?


It was the "talking out your glory hole?" that turned it from a normal persons input into a debate into an comment from a member with an attitude problem. It was also the fact that you are criticising others for not providing scientific references yet not doing so yourself either.


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## jackedbrah (Feb 1, 2013)

Poke said:


> Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?


FUNCTIONAL CHANGES IN LIVER, HEART AND MUSCLES, AND LOSS OF DEXTROSE TOLERANCE RESULTING FROM DINITROPHENOL study conducted by CYRIL M. MacBRYDE, M.D. AND BARRETT L. TAUSSIG, M.D., ST. LOUIS.

Can't locate the copy but you can find it on JAMA Network. It stated that normal recovery of muscle is prevented by marked decrease in muscle glycogen and phosphocreatine and increase in muscle and blood lactate. No increase in creatine excretion was found, which is usually there when muscles are metabolized. In short it will metabolize other tissues first (fats) before moving to muscle.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Poke said:


> DNP continuously depletes your glycogen, meaning any carbs you eat aren't enough to fill your muscles fast enough and are used for energy, and because you are depleted you burn fat, and are at a big deficit.
> 
> When you are depleted, and at a huge deficit, without any AAS use or even refeeds you will lose muscle... Simple.


Do your own research, you obviously haven't done much to date. There is this amazing thing we eat called Protein by the way.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?


The statements I have heard other people make about you really are true aren't they?

The major problem with DNP is that there are few or no controlled scientific studies, again if you knew anything about it you would know this, and not trawl out the standard quote when something that doesn't fit with your view or someone actually challenges you. I have pretty much all of the ones that do exist though, and unlike people such as you, I do not base my statements on what I believe in my own tiny mind to be true.

The statements are based on self study, in a controlled manner. Not that I have to prove anything to you, but I have a very scientific background - and not any of the pop sciences either, so trust me I know how to carry out controlled experiments. From these, and there have been several, the level of muscle catabolism is less using a 500 cal deficit diet with DNP, than without it.

If you can show me a scientific study that shows it DOES catabolise muscle then perhaps you have something worthwhile to say. Until then crawl back in your hole.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> The major problem with DNP


Is that idiots are allowed to buy it without proper research, and get negative publicity


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

squatthis said:


> It was the "talking out your glory hole?" that turned it from a normal persons input into a debate into an comment from a member with an attitude problem. It was also the fact that you are criticising others for not providing scientific references yet not doing so yourself either.


Couldn't be more incorrect pal.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Yet another post from poke showing how clueless you are, can you show me the pics when you have achieved the same weight loss with keto? How can you browse a board so much and still know nothing about training.


False accusations show a puppy in distress. I know about training, I have the results to

Prove it, you on the other hand haven't.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

jackedbrah said:


> FUNCTIONAL CHANGES IN LIVER, HEART AND MUSCLES, AND LOSS OF DEXTROSE TOLERANCE RESULTING FROM DINITROPHENOL study conducted by CYRIL M. MacBRYDE, M.D. AND BARRETT L. TAUSSIG, M.D., ST. LOUIS.
> 
> Can't locate the copy but you can find it on JAMA Network. It stated that normal recovery of muscle is prevented by marked decrease in muscle glycogen and phosphocreatine and increase in muscle and blood lactate. No increase in creatine excretion was found, which is usually there when muscles are metabolized. In short it will metabolize other tissues first (fats) before moving to muscle.


Of course, the body will always use glycogen and fats as energy before muscle tissue which is a last reserve, you just stated common knowledge which doesn't in any way contradict what u said... In the op's circumstances he for sure

Lost muscle.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

jackedbrah said:


> FUNCTIONAL CHANGES IN LIVER, HEART AND MUSCLES, AND LOSS OF DEXTROSE TOLERANCE RESULTING FROM DINITROPHENOL study conducted by CYRIL M. MacBRYDE, M.D. AND BARRETT L. TAUSSIG, M.D., ST. LOUIS.
> 
> Can't locate the copy but you can find it on JAMA Network. It stated that normal recovery of muscle is prevented by marked decrease in muscle glycogen and phosphocreatine and increase in muscle and blood lactate. No increase in creatine excretion was found, which is usually there when muscles are metabolized. In short it will metabolize other tissues first (fats) before moving to muscle.


Of course, the body will always use glycogen and fats as energy before muscle tissue which is a last reserve, you just stated common knowledge which doesn't in any way contradict what u said... In the op's circumstances he for sure

Lost muscle.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> The statements I have heard other people make about you really are true aren't they?
> 
> The major problem with DNP is that there are few or no controlled scientific studies, again if you knew anything about it you would know this, and not trawl out the standard quote when something that doesn't fit with your view or someone actually challenges you. I have pretty much all of the ones that do exist though, and unlike people such as you, I do not base my statements on what I believe in my own tiny mind to be true.
> 
> ...


So in short ou were indeed talking out your glory while.

Congrats in your bro science, what I said is backed up by common knowledge and science, we know what

DNP does, and we know what it does in situations such as the op, it does not preserve muscle mass in this situation.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> So in short ou were indeed talking out your glory while.
> 
> Congrats in your bro science, what I said is backed up by common knowledge and science, we know what
> 
> DNP does, and we know what it does in situations such as the op, it does not preserve muscle mass in this situation.


The common knowledge on DNP is what gets people killed.

You missed the point about the research papers as well as science. However bro science is continued to be spread by you, and not just here. Almost every thread you post into ends up with you trying to force your misinformed view on other people. So is it everyone else that are idiots or you?

When you have had 25+ years in this game, prepped multiple national level BBN-ing champs, and actually understand the science of things, then come back and show people what you have learned. Until then keep it shut, as you will defend your bad knowledge with increasing levels of vitriol, thinking this actually proves a point.

sad.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Poke said:


> False accusations show a puppy in distress. I know about training, I have the results to
> 
> Prove it, you on the other hand haven't.


Have seen that pic you put up, you have as little to show as me


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## EX0DUS (Jul 9, 2013)

Good results. But I don't like dnp, would rather blast tren and not be flat as a pancake and smell burning through my nostrils.


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## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

@Poke, communicating your point of view is more effective when you do not insult other forum members. By resorting to such insults you damage your own validity. Nor have you actually provided any scientific research/studies etc. to back up your own point of view whilst demanding others do so.

Having specifically asked you to support your hypothesis I feel it is only fair that I also do so. This is, of course, made more difficult as there is little research done on the positive effects of DNP use. Most focuses on the adverse effects and toxicity of DNP.

First here's some links. Unfortunately PubMed isn't open source so we can only view the abstract of the 2011 review of DNP in the Journal of Medical Toxicology but a summary of the whole paper is available on pharmablogology.

This doesn't address your belief that DNP is not muscle sparing. While I agree with you that Keto is a healthier way to lose weight you are incorrect in your assertion that DNP will strip muscle. It does not work the same way as ketosis.

Ketosis, as I am sure you know, works by deliberately targeting the amount of insulin in your bloodstream by removing carbs from your diet.

DNP however, is more complex. I provide a *link* (or downloadable version *here*) to a powerpoint presentation which explains the mechanism and sides extremely well.

As I'm nice I'll attempt to summarise it.



> "DNP causes a hyper-metabolic state by uncoupling oxidative phosphorylation. Energy is released in the mitochondria as heat&#8230; Toxic doses will result in uncontrolled thermogenesis leading to hyperthermia and systemic responses to elevated body temperature."
> 
> Tewari et al. (2009) Brit. J. Anaesthesia 102: 566-567


DNP provides a shortcut to energy production by messing around with pH and ATP. It decouples the ATP mechanism (see slide 31). DNP makes your mitochondria work harder but ATP (coenzyme energy carrier) isn't created. This means a side effect is heat production. Your body is running faster and faster and enters a "hyper-metabolic" state.

Effectively because the food you eat is not being used in ATP synthesis you lose weight.

The body can use this mechanism naturally using the decoupling protein thermogenin which is present in the mitochondria of fat cells. The calories you consume will be dissipated as heat and as your metabolism is ramped up, the body uses the stored fat to fuel this increased demand.

Random aside, muscle catabolism is primarily caused by excess thyroid hormones (hyperthyroidism), cortisol, low insulin, calorie restriction and fücking around with the ubiquitin-proteasome pathway (UPP) in general and not by ramping up the energy transport system.

Personally I do not advocate the use of DNP, the side effects are enough to leave me reeling in horror at the damage done to the body, but in that very small window it is difficult to deny how effective it can be.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> Couldn't be more incorrect pal.


How can an opinion be incorrect?

It seems to be an opinion shared by others as well. Also, you just proved my point of your attitude problem by making personal comments about someone else's gains.

Have a word with yourself "pal".


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Couldn't be more incorrect pal.





Gym Bunny said:


> @Poke, communicating your point of view is more effective when you do not insult other forum members. By resorting to such insults you damage your own validity. Nor have you actually provided any scientific research/studies etc. to back up your own point of view whilst demanding others do so.
> 
> Having specifically asked you to support your hypothesis I feel it is only fair that I also do so. This is, of course, made more difficult as there is little research done on the positive effects of DNP use. Most focuses on the adverse effects and toxicity of DNP.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time, that I couldn't be bothered to, in replying to him... :thumb:


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## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> Thank you for taking the time, that I couldn't be bothered to, in replying to him... :thumb:


Nay bother. :thumb:


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Gym Bunny said:


> @Poke, communicating your point of view is more effective when you do not insult other forum members. By resorting to such insults you damage your own validity. Nor have you actually provided any scientific research/studies etc. to back up your own point of view whilst demanding others do so.
> 
> Having specifically asked you to support your hypothesis I feel it is only fair that I also do so. This is, of course, made more difficult as there is little research done on the positive effects of DNP use. Most focuses on the adverse effects and toxicity of DNP.
> 
> ...


I never insulted anyone, could you please quote me were I insulted someone? thanks 

Also, I know exactly what DNP is and how it works.

Do you know what I even said in my statement? I never in any way said "DNP strips muscle" I said the OP's weight loss wasnt *all* fat and that he could have got similar resaults BF% wise from doing keto with refeeds for the same amount of time.

So, do you disagree with what I actually said? no9t just what you think I said because other people have been spouting BS lol.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Thank you for taking the time, that I couldn't be bothered to, in replying to him... :thumb:


Her post doesnt actually prove wrong anything I have actually said mate


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

squatthis said:


> How can an opinion be incorrect?
> 
> It seems to be an opinion shared by others as well. Also, you just proved my point of your attitude problem by making personal comments about someone else's gains.
> 
> Have a word with yourself "pal".





> It was the "talking out your glory hole?" that turned it from a normal persons input into a debate into an comment from a member with an attitude problem. It was also the fact that you are criticising others for not providing scientific references yet not doing so yourself either.


It seems you dont even know what an 'opinion' is pal 

Like I said, you were incorrect, and that wasn't an opinion you numpty!


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Her post doesnt actually prove wrong anything I have actually said mate


Your assumption was that, using DNP does burn muscle, when it doesn't. You are now trying to say that you meant the OP to make yourself look less of an idiot.

The weight loss he achieved was mainly fat. I have used DNP and lost 21lbs in three weeks with NO muscle mass lost at all. So your statement is based on your assumptions about DNP, and now you back track.

Once again everyone else is wrong except you.


----------



## Poke (May 31, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Have seen that pic you put up, you have as little to show as me


I strongly disagree


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Your assumption was that, using DNP does burn muscle, when it doesn't. You are now trying to say that you meant the OP to make yourself look less of an idiot.
> 
> Once again everyone else is wrong except you.


Incorrect, quote me where I said or assumed that "DNP does burn muscle"

I said that in the OP situation where he isnt on any aas and is on a big caloric deficit and also doing cardio that he has lost some muscle because his body has used it for energy as a last resort, and no9t all of his weight loss is fat.

Once again you ignore what I actually said and manufacture non existing quotes in an attempt to make an argument.

Now reply back, saying *what I actually said* is wrong and you will feel silly because you know that what I actually said (not what you thought I said or what someone else made up) is not wrong.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Not really, take DNP without AAS and its pretty much like being at a huge 50% caloric deficit and you will loose muscle.
> 
> Keto with a 500cal deficit and refeed ou can even gain Muscle and lose fat iver anshort period if done properly





Poke said:


> DNP continuously depletes your glycogen, meaning any carbs you eat aren't enough to fill your muscles fast enough and are used for energy, and because you are depleted you burn fat, and are at a big deficit.
> 
> When you are depleted, and at a huge deficit, without any AAS use or even refeeds you will lose muscle... Simple.





Poke said:


> Excuse me? You reading the same thread? I have t insulted anyone mate. I just said something, someone disagreed with me and made claims, and I asked if those claims were actually based on scientific research or are they just being spouted for the same of it.
> 
> What does DNP do to activly preserve muscle tissue? It doesn't, your body will lose muscle tissue used as energy in the op's circumstance.





Poke said:


> Incorrect, quote me where I said or assumed that "DNP does burn muscle"
> 
> I said that in the OP situation where he isnt on any aas and is on a big caloric deficit and also doing cardio that he has lost some muscle because his body has used it for energy as a last resort, and no9t all of his weight loss is fat.
> 
> ...


I think you should read all of the above highlighted in red, from you. the first one is so bad it is laughable. You seriously know nothing at all about DNP do you.

I will grant that you added for the OP in the last one, but they all state that taking DNP will burn muscle. Also given you think you know how DNP works, stating its like being at calorie deficit, and it isn't. You clearly have no idea about the process involved or even what the key component ATP is, or does (yes no doubt you'll use wikipedia now to try and prove a point).

I think you should just go away now, and stop embarrassing yourself. Dont play with the big boys unless you come properly informed.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> I think you should read all of the above highlighted in red, from you.
> 
> I will grant that you added for the OP in the last one, but they all state that taking DNP will burn muscle. Also given you think you know how DNP works, stating its like being at calorie deficit, and it isn't. You clearly have no idea about the process involved or even what the key component ATP is, or does (yes no doubt you'll use wikipedia now to try and prove a point).
> 
> I think you should just go away now, and stop embarrassing yourself. Dont play with the big boys unless you come properly informed.


Yes, and none of those quotes said "DNP makes you lose muscle"

Here are the quotes you highlighted;



> take DNP without AAS and its pretty much like being at a huge 50% caloric deficit and you will loose muscle.


Referring to the OP and his situation, its ture mate... I never said *you dont lose fat* but its inevitable you will lose some muscle.



> When you are depleted, and at a huge deficit, without any AAS use or even refeeds you will lose muscle...


Of course you will....duh, again, I never said "you wont lose and fat"



> What does DNP do to activly preserve muscle tissue? It doesn't, your body will lose muscle tissue


There is no scientific evidence to say DNP preserves muscle tissue, it simply doesnt preserve muscle tissue on its own.

Now again, answere how each one of those quotes *you* chose are so drastically wrong liek you were trying to say.

Im not embarrasing myself mate, you have just made a fool of yourself, completely manufacturing an argument based on things I never even said and things other people made up, now you realise this and feel like a numpty.

At the end of the day, I said the OP's weight loss was not all fat and he lost some muscle, and that he could have got similar results in terms of BF% with keto and refeeds for the same amount of time.

I then continued to explain that in the OPs situation DNP will cause muscle loss (not *just* fat loss), and *you seemed to have read "DNP will cause muscle loss in all situations" * Get your eyes checked buddy


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Poke, u little scamp - u arguing again? Do u honestly believe that every thread that u contribute in turns out like this because everybody else is wrong? or misunderstanding? or ignorant??? There is a common denominator in every one of them threads m8!! You get a rep if u can tell me what it is?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Im not embarrasing myself mate, you have just made a fool of yourself, completely manufacturing an argument based on things I never even said and things other people made up, now you realise this and feel like a numpty.


I know you will twist this that you have in some way 'won', but you really aren't worth the time. If you need this to feel in some way complete as a person then fine. You will never see that you were wrong, every thread you post in you just keep on being belligerent and ignoring what everyone else sees. Just look at the first quote again. It is so clear from that what you were saying, however you want to now spin it.

I have a history in this sport, and in weight loss that needs no justification to someone like you. From this diatribe and others I have found from you you clearly have both self-esteem issues, and concerns over looking like a bit of a thickie, and so choose to argue over and over, feeling that if someone stops, then you have won.

You're an oxygen thief, my friend, pure and simple.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> Poke, u little scamp - u arguing again? Do u honestly believe that every thread that u contribute in turns out like this because everybody else is wrong? or misunderstanding? or ignorant??? There is a common denominator in every one of them threads m8!! You get a rep if u can tell me what it is?


ooh ooh, Can I have a rep, if I get it correct? :lol:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> ooh ooh, Can I have a rep, if I get it correct? :lol:


NO


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

u can have one anyway lol


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> I know you will twist this that you have in some way 'won', but you really aren't worth the time. If you need this to feel in some way complete as a person then fine. You will never see that you were wrong, every thread you post in you just keep on being belligerent and ignoring what everyone else sees. Just look at the first quote again. It is so clear from that what you were saying, however you want to now spin it.
> 
> I have a history in this sport, and in weight loss that needs no justification to someone like you. From this diatribe and others I have found from you you clearly have both self-esteem issues, and concerns over looking like a bit of a thickie, and so choose to argue over and over, feeling that if someone stops, then you have won.
> 
> You're an oxygen thief, my friend, pure and simple.


Its not a competition, all I have done is said something, then you and others have twisted what I said to make it an argument, then I have brought the hammer down with the truth and situation in hand and you realise your argument was completely invalid, I havent twisted anything, I even let you quote what I actually said and then you realised it was you who had it twisted and was saying and claiming I said things I never even said and even basing your argument on them when they didnt even exist! 

What I said is not wrong, if you think that while on DNP and also a big deficit diet without AAS while doing cardio you will not lose any muscle mass and just fat alone then you are wrong, and you know this which is why you havent said that lol, when what I said was the opposite to the above, that you will lose muscle mass in that situation, which is true, of course you will.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Its not a competition, all I have done is said something, then you and others have twisted what I said to make it an argument, then I have brought the hammer down with the truth and situation in hand and you realise your argument was completely invalid, I havent twisted anything, I even let you quote what I actually said and then you realised it was you who had it twisted and was saying and claiming I said things I never even said and even basing your argument on them when they didnt even exist!
> 
> What I said is not wrong, if you think that while on DNP and also a big deficit diet without AAS while doing cardio you will not lose any muscle mass and just fat alone then you are wrong, and you know this which is why you havent said that lol, when what I said was the opposite to the above, that you will lose muscle mass in that situation, which is true, of course you will.


proved my point rather succinctly.....

You can click on that last word if you dont know what it means by the way...


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## Gym Bunny (Mar 25, 2009)

Poke said:


> I never insulted anyone, could you please quote me were I insulted someone? thanks


Of course, always happy to help.  While several of your comments to other forum members were insulting, this is the one that comes across as most inappropriate:



Poke said:


> Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?





Poke said:


> Also, I know exactly what DNP is and how it works. Excellent, I'm glad to read this, although that does suggest you could actually back up your position with scientific studies, as I took the time to do. I suggest that if you provided such information, it would pave the way to a genuinely interesting debate, rather than simply appearing to flame the other posters.
> 
> Do you know what I even said in my statement? I never in any way said "DNP strips muscle" I said the OP's weight loss wasnt *all* fat and that he could have got similar resaults BF% wise from doing keto with refeeds for the same amount of time.
> 
> ...


If you read my post (the one with scientific links) I quite clearly state my position on this subject. I also outlined what I interpret your position to be (based on my reading of your previous posts in this topic) and why my conclusions differ, particularly in reference to the mechanism involved.



Poke said:


> Not really, take DNP without AAS and its pretty much like being at ahuge 50% caloric deficit and you will loose muscle.
> 
> Keto with a 500cal deficit and refeed ou can even gain Muscle and lose fat iver anshort period if done properly





Poke said:


> Can you back up these statements that you dont lose muscle on DNP without AAS with scientific facts or are you just talking out your glory hole?


The 3rd quote is, I feel, a misconception of the intricacies of the decoupling. I would be extremely interested if you could provide any links to the relationships between DNP and glycogen because I have been unsuccessful in locating any scientific studies into this potential aspect before I come to a conclusion.



Poke said:


> DNP continuously depletes your glycogen, meaning any carbs you eat aren't enough to fill your muscles fast enough and are used for energy, and because you are depleted you burn fat, and are at a big deficit.
> 
> When you are depleted, and at a huge deficit, without any AAS use or even refeeds you will lose muscle... Simple.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> proved my point rather succinctly.....
> 
> You can click on that last word if you dont know what it means by the way...


Incorrect.

You claimed I was twisting what I said, when in reality, I havent changed my original statement in any way, and it is you who either didnt know what I actually said and read other peoples post mis-interpreting me, or twisted what I said yourself so you have something to argue about because you know you cant argue much with what I actually said


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Gym Bunny said:


> Of course, always happy to help.  While several of your comments to other forum members were insulting, this is the one that comes across as most inappropriate:
> 
> If you read my post (the one with scientific links) I quite clearly state my position on this subject. I also outlined what I interpret your position to be (based on my reading of your previous posts in this topic) and why my conclusions differ, particularly in reference to the mechanism involved.
> 
> The 3rd quote is, I feel, a misconception of the intricacies of the decoupling. I would be extremely interested if you could provide any links to the relationships between DNP and glycogen because I have been unsuccessful in locating any scientific studies into this potential aspect before I come to a conclusion.


I agree that he never said strips muscle but i disagree that he said loses muscle, he actually said looses muscle :lol:


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

lmao, *"How to destroy a thread in 1 easy step"* by Poke

There should be a sticky related just to that.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Poke said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> You claimed I was twisting what I said, when in reality, I havent changed my original statement in any way, and it is you who either didnt know what I actually said and read other peoples post mis-interpreting me, or twisted what I said yourself so you have something to argue about because you know you cant argue much with what I actually said


Yawn.....

you really are a dull, sad little man aren't you?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Poke said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> You claimed I was twisting what I said, when in reality, I havent changed my original statement in any way, and it is you who either didnt know what I actually said and read other peoples post mis-interpreting me, or twisted what I said yourself so you have something to argue about because you know you cant argue much with what I actually said


Because you are right, always.....

The long list of people with whom you have had arguments in your very short time on ukm means nothing, just that THEY are all wrong, not you!

Do you honestly believe that, because i genuinely think there is something lacking mentally if you cant ever admit defeat even though it is clearly put in front of you!


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Gym Bunny said:


> Of course, always happy to help.  While several of your comments to other forum members were insulting, this is the one that comes across as most inappropriate:
> 
> If you read my post (the one with scientific links) I quite clearly state my position on this subject. I also outlined what I interpret your position to be (based on my reading of your previous posts in this topic) and why my conclusions differ, particularly in reference to the mechanism involved.
> 
> The 3rd quote is, I feel, a misconception of the intricacies of the decoupling. I would be extremely interested if you could provide any links to the relationships between DNP and glycogen because I have been unsuccessful in locating any scientific studies into this potential aspect before I come to a conclusion.


Asking someone if they are talking out of their glory hole is not 'insulting'. If its your opinion that it is insulting, then I strongly disagree, as it is not in fact insulting.

I read your post, and none of it contradicted what I actually said, and instead contradicted to other peoples misquotes or simply made up statements, so it is of no concern to me, sorry you wasted your time.

Here are some links to studies on the subjects you highlighted;

DNP increased MBR by 60% on quail, and is said to potentially be more in humans. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8248930

DNP reducing ATP storage by 70-80% in rats http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/736118

Science is science, my statement was based on science and general knowledge of experienced people. But remember that all I said was in the OP postition, taking DNP and being at a big caloric deficit and doing cardio he lost muscle... pretty much strandard knowledge.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Yawn.....
> 
> you really are a dull, sad little man aren't you?


If that opinion makes you feel better that your entire attempt at an argument was completely invalid as it wasn't contradicting or relating to anything I actually said, then OK


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> Because you are right, always.....
> 
> The long list of people with whom you have had arguments in your very short time on ukm means nothing, just that THEY are all wrong, not you!
> 
> Do you honestly believe that, because i genuinely think there is something lacking mentally if you cant ever admit defeat even though it is clearly put in front of you!


People in general dont like people that aren't afraid to make statements against what they believe or even not against what they believe but just making a bold statement. And as we see over and over again, because they cant really argue about of say thy origional statment is wrong, they twist it and misquote and make up stuff so they can argue 

All I have done here is make a statement which is pretty much general kowledge, and people have misquoted, made things up I never even said, and argued about things that dont even relate to what I said, I then simply stated the actual situation to said people and they then realised this is the case and stopped their invalid argument and started calling me names, funny I think haha!


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Fatstuff said:


> I agree that he never said strips muscle but i disagree that he said loses muscle, he actually said looses muscle :lol:


Cool, where do I get some? My muscles are way too tight 



Poke said:


> Asking someone if they are talking out of their glory hole is not 'insulting'.


Yes it is.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Beklet said:


> Yes it is.


Your opinion is that it is, so you are incorrect to state your opinion as fact, when it isn't


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Poke said:


> Your opinion is that it is, so you are incorrect to state your opinion as fact, when it isn't


And your opinion is that it isn't, so you are incorrect to state your opinion as fact, when it isn't.

However, if the person it was aimed at says it's insulting, it's insulting.

Just like when someone complains of sexual harrasment. To the perpetrator, it may be banter, but their opinion doesn't count.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Beklet said:


> And your opinion is that it isn't, so you are incorrect to state your opinion as fact, when it isn't.
> 
> However, if the person it was aimed at says it's insulting, it's insulting.
> 
> Just like when someone complains of sexual harrasment. To the perpetrator, it may be banter, but their opinion doesn't count.


Incorrect, its fact that what I said was not insulting, its your opinion that it was.

If the person I asked the question to thought the said question was insulting (even though him himself didnt..) then that is unfortunate, but that doesnt then determine what I said was insulting you billy, this statement makes you look silly.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)




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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

To be totally fair offence is taken not given. The way you worded the post was a bit obnoxious and insult could easily be taken from it even if it wasn't meant to be insulting.

If you are trying to disprove someone or something you need to be more tactful and respectful. And also back it up with evidence or you are just being a hypocrite.

Anyway! What was the original post about??


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

Poke said:


> Incorrect, its fact that what I said was not insulting, its your opinion that it was.
> 
> If the person I asked the question to thought the said question was insulting (even though him himself didnt..) then that is unfortunate, but that doesnt then determine what I said was insulting you billy, this statement makes you look silly.


 You have just derailed your own argument. It is your opinion you were not insulting. If it is indeed fact, please provide scientific evidence to back it up. 'You billy'? What language is that, are you 5?

Definition of insult - speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse

Covers most of your posts, it would seem.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> To be totally fair offence is taken not given. The way you worded the post was a bit obnoxious and insult could easily be taken from it even if it wasn't meant to be insulting.
> 
> If you are trying to disprove someone or something you need to be more tactful and respectful. And also back it up with evidence or you are just being a hypocrite.
> 
> Anyway! What was the original post about??


Indeed, what I said was not insulting it was a simply question, if the person took it as an insult, then thats unfortunate, but what I said in words was not insulting 

Also, I never tried to disprove anyone or anything.

The original post just said I thought the OP could have got similar results from doing keto a refeeds, followed up by clarifying in terms of bf% and that the OP's weight loss was not just purely fat and he lost muscle too.

When you break it down there is nothing wrong with it lol, just people love to make up bs to argue about haha, and I am obliged


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Beklet said:


> You have just derailed your own argument. It is your opinion you were not insulting. If it is indeed fact, please provide scientific evidence to back it up. 'You billy'? What language is that, are you 5?
> 
> Definition of insult - speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse
> 
> Covers most of your posts, it would seem.


Incorrect, I didn't derail my own argument because I dont even have an argument, Im just stating the way it is, if you wish to try and argue then thats ok 

I hate to break it to you but the meaning of a word in the english language is not science hahaha, use a dictionary B  and I see you have, so in this case you must know that what I said, was not an insult


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

YO BITCHEZ STILL ARGUIN DAYUM BRAH

end of the day, the matey lost weight, what's the problem

Always opinion vs opinion these days


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

I tend to take advice from people who look half decent in their avi,just putting that out there........


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## jaycue2u (Jul 23, 2011)

Poke said:


> People in general dont like gob sh1tes like me that aren't afraid to make statements against what they believe or even not against what they believe but just making a bold statement.


Sorted for you :whistling:


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

jaycue2u said:


> Sorted for you :whistling:


You spelt it wrong, its suppose to say "God like"


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> I strongly disagree


Pics or nobasisfordisagreement


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> You spelt it wrong, its suppose to say "God like"


Oh, and pics or nogodlike.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> that doesnt then determine what I said was insulting you billy, this statement makes you look silly.


pics or nobilly.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> People in general dont like people that aren't afraid to make statements against what they believe or even not against what they believe but just making a bold statement.


Pics or noboldstatement

ahh. I could do this all day.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Poke said:


> I hate to break it to you but the meaning of a word in the english language is not science hahaha, use a dictionary B  and I see you have, so in this case you must know that what I said, was not an insult


Pics or nodictionary


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

I won't carry on. @Poke, consider this a demonstration of your general annoyingness. Theres plenty of boards that may welcome you, maybe try 4chan or one of the other alwaysrightandnoonecandissagreewithme type forums. I for one won't be responding to your BS anymore.


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

tommygunnz said:


> OP is your name Dave?


Lol No that is not me mate.. but I wish I looked like that lol but I did do a very simillar cycle

Also my name is georgey not dave


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

my oh my guys lol ..all I wanted was a bit of recognition :innocent:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

georgey said:


> my oh my guys lol ..all I wanted was a bit of recognition :innocent:


LOL congrats m8 have a rep


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

georgey said:


> my oh my guys lol ..all I wanted was a bit of recognition :innocent:


consider your achievement recognised. You managed to rile up the stubborn knowitall so you must have done something right.

Have another rep.


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## tommygunnz (Feb 17, 2011)

georgey said:


> Lol No that is not me mate.. but I wish I looked like that lol but I did do a very simillar cycle
> 
> Also my name is georgey not dave


Why is it the same pic as the guy on muscle talk i am confused?


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

tommygunnz said:


> Why is it the same pic as the guy on muscle talk i am confused?


Its obviously not the same pic.. because the pic that guy is in is him just before a comp.. all tanned up lol thanks for the compliment.. he might look simmilar 'if you say so' but its not me lol!!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

georgey said:


> Its obviously not the same pic.. because the pic that guy is in is him just before a comp.. all tanned up lol thanks for the compliment.. he might look simmilar 'if you say so' but its not me lol!!


He means post number 6, there is a post of some before and after pics of a guy called gymfreak. One of the pics is the same pic you say is you at 17 in your OP.

Tbh theres no fecking way you were that big at 17


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> He means post number 6, there is a post of some before and after pics of a guy called gymfreak. One of the pics is the same pic you say is you at 17 in your OP.
> 
> Tbh theres no fecking way you were that big at 17


yes thats me on muscle talk I thought he meant the actual guy whos thread it was with the tanned up avi n lol thats not big at all mate hah


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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

tommygunnz said:


> is this you???!?1?!?!?!?!?
> 
> http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/Cutting-course-Higher-dose-for-shorter-time-or-smaller-dose-for-longer-m4720964.aspx


NOW i KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.. YES IT IS ME.. I THOUGHT YOU MEANT THE GUY WHO POSTED THE THREAD.. DIDN'T BOTHER LOOKING DOWN AND HAVEN'T BEEN ON THERE FOR SOME TIME.


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## tommygunnz (Feb 17, 2011)

but the dudes name on there is dave?


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

tommygunnz said:


> but the dudes name on there is dave?


I think your onto something


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

sckeane said:


> I think your onto something


Indeed.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jun 25, 2013)

honestly, at 17yo you were a monster.

how bad where the "yellow colored" bodily fluids, urine and sweat?


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