# Relaxed visible abs



## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

I want to have abs that are visible when relaxed, im well aware you need low bf % i currently weigh 13ish stone at 5'9ish you can see all my abs and obliques when tensing.

However my goal is to have that definition when tensing but when relaxed in 3 weeks

Ive just started using t3, stanazol and will be getting some clen very soon, i know th doses for the clen and t3 and im assuming 30mg of stanazol will be enough to counter the muscle loss the t3 causes?

i train a differnt muscle group every day then do 20-30mins cardio.

what should i eat? im quite happy to eat 30g of oats and protien per day and i can ignore the hunger but i dont want my body to go into 'starvation mode' because ill not loose any more fat? or will i due to the supplements and aas?

Ive read lots of posts on here about eating slightly less than maintenance cals but i want this to happen faster!

I will do anything to achive this goal so im not bothered how dramatic or painfull it will be.

helpful comments only please...

Thanks!!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> I want to have abs that are visible when relaxed, im well aware you need low bf % i currently weigh 13ish stone at 5'9ish you can see all my abs and obliques when tensing.
> 
> However my goal is to have that definition when tensing but when relaxed in 3 weeks
> 
> ...


the fact you say T3 causes muscle loss means you don't understand it... it doesnt cause ANY muscle loss, if your protein intake matches your increase.. think this way, how much protein do you need now? Your body produces 26 mcg of T3/day naturally... so if you pop a 25mcg tab, you've doubled your normal production, and need to double your protein intake- here is why: thyroid influences protein turn over rate.

See Thyroid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid

where it says the "thyroid gland controls how quickly the body uses energy, makes proteins, and controls how sensitive the body should be to other hormones"

this control of how quickly the body makes protein (from amino acids- i.e you may drink a protein shake- your body digests it into amino acids, and re-assembles them into long chains called proteins- as muscle in your body) is called the Protein Turn Over Rate (PTOR):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_turnover

so if you increase your T3 level radically, without increasing your protein intake, you "burn muscle" with T3; but really its not right- you've increased your PTOR, without increasing your protein intake.

Yes you can take AAS, and it stops some of the loss.. but.. AAS cannot make muscle and repair damaged tissue when there is a protein shortage.. so you need to increase your protein intake, even with AAS...


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

thank you! no i dont understsand it fully, so if i was taking 3x 25mcg i would need to 3x as much protien? that is quite alot. im just going out to work now but will read your post fully when i get back!

thanks again


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

If you don't understand T3 fully, then it's not a drug to be messed with.

My advice would be to keep protein intake high and shoot for a slow reduction in weight per week, no more than 0.3-0.5kg if you're already very lean.

I would't worry too much about muscle mass, if you lift with high intensity and eat enough protein you'll mitigate it somewhat.

Hormonal shutdown and leptin become more of a severe issue at this level of bodyfat though if you're not naturally lean.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> thank you! no i dont understsand it fully, so if i was taking 3x 25mcg i would need to 3x as much protien? that is quite alot. im just going out to work now but will read your post fully when i get back!
> 
> thanks again


its not exact, but if you're doing 75-100mcg of T3 a day, you'd want 500g/protein a day to cover your PTOR to be on the safe side; yes its a lot of protein, but if you cut your carb calories commensurately, to allow for the extra protein cals, you will get very lean..


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## bluesteel (May 28, 2010)

why do you need abs visible when untensed? what bodyfat % would this even occur? why dont you just tense your abs whenever you see someone look at you? it works just as well and you get a good ab workout as you would be doing hundreds of crunches per day lol


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Id just walk around with my abs tensed


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

I dont see the point to this as they will just return to normal when you stop the diet and you can have super low fat and still no abs due to water under skin.


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

bluesteel said:


> why do you need abs visible when untensed? what bodyfat % would this even occur? why dont you just tense your abs whenever you see someone look at you? it works just as well and you get a good ab workout as you would be doing hundreds of crunches per day lol


EVERYBODY tenses when struttin around, youd need to maintain crazy low bodyfat to have abs 'popping' 24/7

Bluesteel do you give the pout aswell as tense the abs?


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## bluesteel (May 28, 2010)

arosair said:


> EVERYBODY tenses when struttin around, youd need to maintain crazy low bodyfat to have abs 'popping' 24/7
> 
> Bluesteel do you give the pout aswell as tense the abs?


there can be no situation where a pout would not improve the aesthetics of a well tensed set of abs. Infact im so experienced in that area i can pout 5 plates.


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

bluesteel said:


> there can be no situation where a pout would not improve the aesthetics of a well tensed set of abs. Infact im so experienced in that area i can pout 5 plates.


you from newcastle like?? ;-)


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## bluesteel (May 28, 2010)

lol no. not far off. however my exact location must remain a secret. I'm kind of a big deal. Infact im so important i have abs even when untensed. so my identity cannot be revealed.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

i am curious tho on what BF% on average that people have abs relaxed at, and what % for them to be poppin while relaxed


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

murphy2010 said:


> i am curious tho on what BF% on average that people have abs relaxed at, and what % for them to be poppin while relaxed


7% approx if gives abs visible all the time; 5% you're at comp shape, they're poppin just walkin..


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

i have been at really low bodyfat it's a horrible place to be .. might look good but it's not healthy at all. . hard task sitting on your ass because there is no fat tissue to give you support .. "cushion" lol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

sizar said:


> i have been at really low bodyfat it's a horrible place to be .. might look good but it's not healthy at all. . hard task sitting on your ass because there is no fat tissue to give you support .. "cushion" lol


you poor pr**k... my heart bleeds for you.. it really does.. truly.. :lol:

i'll swap you problems- mine is my girl saying during sex- "wheres your abs??"


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> you poor pr**k... my heart bleeds for you.. it really does.. truly.. :lol:
> 
> i'll swap you problems- mine is my girl saying during sex- "wheres your abs??"


better than mine saying 'is that it'


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

ok i'll increase protein intake to 500g per day, im assuming this is best split up through a 24 hour period, so 50grams every 2.4 hours (10 servings).

as the half life of t3 around 24 hours (some sites say 10hours others 2.5 days)

or if i took those in the morning (7.00) the halflife would have dropped enough by midnight so i could take the last 50g of protein at that time, then the next morning at 7.00 again?

there for taking the protien every 1.7 hours (10x50g in 17 hours)

Im aiming for competition bf % so 5% whats wrong with that??

forgot to mention water retention, this should be low with only a small amout of stanazol? not like naps etc.

after im down to a low enough bf % im assuming water retention tablets should help get that bit more definition?


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## Bamse (Feb 5, 2011)

barsnack said:


> better than mine saying 'is that it'


Referring to your abs, or lack thereof, I hope?


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## RMC... (Mar 25, 2011)

barsnack said:


> better than mine saying 'is that it'


OR...... Oh it's you.... Zzzzzzzzzz!.!.!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> ok i'll increase protein intake to 500g per day, im assuming this is best split up through a 24 hour period, so 50grams every 2.4 hours (10 servings).
> 
> as the half life of t3 around 24 hours (some sites say 10hours others 2.5 days)
> 
> ...


nothing wrong with hitting 5%... i'm aiming for 7% and would be happy! LOL i got 9 weeks to go..

don't overcomplicate the protein intake, i have 3 shakes in a day that have 100g of protein each (yes they are thick!!) and only 5g of carbs in that (its USN pure protein IGF-1, but any low carb protein is fine); the rest comes from egg whites and lean meat/tuna, but there is no probs having 100g+ of protein per meal, so you don't need to eat every 2.5 hours..

Don't forget for T3 (or T4) to work properly, it needs to be taken first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach, with no food for 30mins.

Any DHT derivative (winny, anavar, primobolan, masteron) will keep you nice and dry as they don't aromatise, so you will keep a lean look.

You can use lasix at 20mg/day for no more than 3-4days if you want to achieve an "optimum look" on a specific day (like for a comp); but don't just use it daily or frequently- its the one drug that has killed bodybuilders (andreas munzer, mohammed beneziza etc); if you consider using it, there are some rules to its use- post up for info on the forum then.

fact is, with a clean diet and a DHT based AAS, you shouldn't need Lasix..



RMC... said:


> OR...... Oh it's you.... Zzzzzzzzzz!.!.!


oh i don't mind that one.. i'd find it hot, as long as she didn't go back to sleep ;-)


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

you can still hold loads of water while on win ect sodium holds lots of water , you want sodium levels low while maintaining potassium levels, the lasix would do this but will lower your potassium levels 2 so take a potassium sup to help keep muscles hydrated while under skin dry. imo there is no point taking lasix if you aint on a super low sodium diet anyway , as you will replace all what you expel with tap water and food. 5% is low really low lots of people will say they have reached it but aint really true bf is hard to measure and most people will be higher than then think even if they been tested .


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

you could take an ai for last week or so to really dry up and rub hemaroid gel on your stomach last couple of days


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jstarcarr said:


> you can still hold loads of water while on win ect sodium holds lots of water , you want sodium levels low while maintaining potassium levels, the lasix would do this but will lower your potassium levels 2 so take a potassium sup to help keep muscles hydrated while under skin dry. imo there is no point taking lasix if you aint on a super low sodium diet anyway , as you will replace all what you expel with tap water and food. 5% is low really low lots of people will say they have reached it but aint really true bf is hard to measure and most people will be higher than then think even if they been tested .


you're right- thats what I meant by clean diet- no fats, low carbs, and low sodium... if you have "clean diet" you dont hold much water... its the potassium supplementation that causes the heart attacks that killed the bodybuilders... sodium/potassium balance takes some knowledge to do right.. and i don't recommend immediately taking a potassium supplement...



jstarcarr said:


> you could take an ai for last week or so to really dry up


yes, thats a good one; does work for that last little bit, i'd do it for 4weeks though..


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> you're right- thats what I meant by clean diet- no fats, low carbs, and low sodium... if you have "clean diet" you dont hold much water... its the potassium supplementation that causes the heart attacks that killed the bodybuilders... sodium/potassium balance takes some knowledge to do right.. and i don't recommend immediately taking a potassium supplement...


yes I would be very carefull if you do use some , Ive heard of people eating bananas and fcuking themselves up.

when is use potassium sups I use 20-50mg 2-3 times per day


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

taking 100grans of protien would be much easier!

as for eating clean, just to loose the fat i have been eating just protien oats and veg. probably not healthy but need to get rid of this fat.

so i dont eat any sugar fat and only a small amout of carbs in the oats wich i could out.

i take the t3 at 7am then protein at 7.30 so at least ive got that bit right.

I'll research ai and lasix now, and there shouldnt be much sodium in my diet so that may work well for me?

What about the water retention tablets you can buy otc? any good?

hemaroid gel? really? or am i walking into that one...


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

you can get over the counter water tablets they are for women on there period, and hemeroid gel sucks water out of the skin thats how it shrinks the piles . witch hazel gel does same thing 2.


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

looked into the ai how, and what would you recomend for taking that?

the lasix im still reading on how to use it atm but will probably use that also.

hemaroid gel will be on the list too...


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

I have used arimidex at 1mg per day , be careful though as you could get a rebound of estrogen .


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

when and how long for? also how do i be carefull?


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> when and how long for? also how do i be carefull?


I would do for the last few weeks but could be done longer , just keep the dose low and you should be ok , it blocks estrogen conversion so when you come of you could then have high estrogen levels . Read more on everything so you fully understand before trying out anything.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jstarcarr said:


> I would do for the last few weeks but could be done longer , just keep the dose low and you should be ok , it blocks estrogen conversion so when you come of you could then have high estrogen levels . Read more on everything so you fully understand before trying out anything.


the 1mg of arimidex daily for 4 weeks, then EOD for 2weeks, then nolvadex 20mg/day for two weeks.


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

will this also help to get lean as well as pct?


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

500g of protein seems to be ok to handle, just another 100g before bed 

One question is though thats around 3300 calories, wich has confused me a bit as thats loads more than i need???


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> 500g of protein seems to be ok to handle, just another 100g before bed
> 
> One question is though thats around 3300 calories, wich has confused me a bit as thats loads more than i need???


if its loads more than you need, take less; if you start losing strength/muscle then increase it. These are general guidelines- but just be aware that with T3 you do need more protein than usual; most BBs I know when dieting shoot for 2g/lb protein for this reason.


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

its just a bit confusing, will i still loose fat with that amount of protein?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> its just a bit confusing, will i still loose fat with that amount of protein?


at the end of the day, you should have a slight calorie deficit, so keep your fats low, and carbs low, and get the majority of your cals from protein. Maybe this will work out at only 200g (what where you eating). The think is, with extra T3 your metabolism is faster- so your maintenance cals will increase..


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## Peter22 (Sep 30, 2009)

Im trying to not have ANY fat or carbs at all so hopefuly this should work, however i accidently had 16g of fat becasue i didnt read what was in a tin of sardines.

im also taking 2 clen per day and otc weight loss (which is mainly caffine)

ill stick to the 500g per day then!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Peter22 said:


> Im trying to not have ANY fat or carbs at all so hopefuly this should work, however i accidently had 16g of fat becasue i didnt read what was in a tin of sardines.
> 
> im also taking 2 clen per day and otc weight loss (which is mainly caffine)
> 
> ill stick to the 500g per day then!


maintaining muscle, while shredding is a fine balance... you're on the right track... since most of your cals are protein/carbs first drop the carbs, then reduce the protein til you get there..


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## Metzer (Jun 20, 2011)

Peter22 said:


> Im trying to not have ANY fat or carbs at all so hopefuly this should work, however i accidently had 16g of fat becasue i didnt read what was in a tin of sardines.
> 
> im also taking 2 clen per day and otc weight loss (which is mainly caffine)
> 
> ill stick to the 500g per day then!


I could be wrong, but I always thought one should not completely cut out fats when cutting?, and eating EFAs can be beneficial


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Metzer said:


> I could be wrong, but I always thought one should not completely cut out fats when cutting?, and eating EFAs can be beneficial


you're right, a couple of spoons of Udos choice is a good idea; its still negligable fats though.

I'm currently dieting with <30g of fats/day but all from Udo's choice.


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## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

What is this s**t, really?


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