# Time for letro?



## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

My nipples have been puffy like this for as long as I can remember, the only time they go back to normal is when I'm taking nolva. Guessing that's down to oestrogen? I've just started a cycle now, should I take letro whilst I'm on cycle or should i wait until I'm off?


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## gaz_0001 (Jul 6, 2010)

I cant tell if you have gyno from the pics.

But if you do want to run letro, definately run it whilst on cycle. Hopefully the test will help you keep your sex drive and not feel like crap.

Another bit of advice, for me personally letro makes me feel sick when i take in the morning or the day, so i took it before going bed.


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

mine are the same as yours dude but im a bit fatter than u lol


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

gaz_0001 said:


> I cant tell if you have gyno from the pics.
> 
> But if you do want to run letro, definately run it whilst on cycle. Hopefully the test will help you keep your sex drive and not feel like crap.
> 
> Another bit of advice, for me personally letro makes me feel sick when i take in the morning or the day, so i took it before going bed.


Cheers for the advice, mine have been like this for about 2 years but don't hurt or no lumps. Should I still take arimidex and when would I use nolva to stop the rebound with me already being on cycle any idea?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ItsaSecret said:


> mine are the same as yours dude but im a bit fatter than u lol


Haha I'm just fed up with them now and want to sort them out, you not doing anything about yours?


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Haha I'm just fed up with them now and want to sort them out, you not doing anything about yours?


Well ive just came off gear now. im not sure if ive had them for years or not, my nipples have allways been like pointy, i was hella obese before, but i think i had a bit of a flareup when blasting hcg lol. I'm just gonna continue with my pct, then get leaner afterwords and see what its like then, then ill decide whether ill letro it or not. the lumps dont feel all that big tbh, like a really small grape? its about half the size of 3 days ago :s


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ItsaSecret said:


> Well ive just came off gear now. im not sure if ive had them for years or not, my nipples have allways been like pointy, i was hella obese before, but i think i had a bit of a flareup when blasting hcg lol. I'm just gonna continue with my pct, then get leaner afterwords and see what its like then, then ill decide whether ill letro it or not. the lumps dont feel all that big tbh, like a really small grape? its about half the size of 3 days ago :s


Did you use an AI? I had done a few cycles without one or even a pct a few year ago which is where I think I've got them from. Mine are there no matter how lean I get unfortunately, there's no lumps in mine though. Nolva got rid of mine until I stopped taking it so could be that if your using it in your pct?


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## sniper83 (Jun 21, 2012)

my are like this slight bigger but im holding to my BF at present lol ive just done letro not realy noticed a thing but i have no intrest in sex at all!!im on my 2nd week of tamox at the min going to start a cycle next month and try shed a tad bit of fat but mine have always been puffy i look better when my chest is smaller lol great stuff ha


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Did you use an AI? I had done a few cycles without one or even a pct a few year ago which is where I think I've got them from. Mine are there no matter how lean I get unfortunately, there's no lumps in mine though. Nolva got rid of mine until I stopped taking it so could be that if your using it in your pct?


No i didn't use an ai. i didnt get it from the gear, will of been absolutely from the hcg lol, i was running low doses of test p, tren ace and mast p.

how long did it take for nolva to clear yours up?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ItsaSecret said:


> No i didn't use an ai. i didnt get it from the gear, will of been absolutely from the hcg lol, i was running low doses of test p, tren ace and mast p.
> 
> how long did it take for nolva to clear yours up?


Oh right. I was on it for about a month for my pct but didn't really notice how long it took for them to go, then it hit came straight back when I stopped


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

chilisi said:


> No, letro is a last resort. It can be a horrible med to use.
> 
> If you feel it's gear related, use an AI on cycle.


I'm using Adex but that won't reduce it will it


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> I'm using Adex but that won't reduce it will it


No mate.

Tbh I don't think yours are that bad.

Mine have been terrible since I was 14 years old.

Used letrozole but for me its not particularly improved things, more the fact I'm drier therefore its less noticeable.

Docs don't seem to want to know and I simply cannot afford surgery so I'm stuck with it.

I just hope an pray next summer when I rip up it becomes almost unoticable.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> No mate.
> 
> Tbh I don't think yours are that bad.
> 
> ...


They just look sh*t when there puffed up haha, look fine when there cold. Have you not tried a long course of Nolva? I might do couple of month nolva first then try letro


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Mine are like this had it for about 18 months, when I'm cold they look completely fine but wearing certain stuff they stick out and look really puffy

In my pct il try some adex see if it helps it at all annoys me tho lol


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> They just look sh*t when there puffed up haha, look fine when there cold. Have you not tried a long course of Nolva? I might do couple of month nolva first then try letro


Been reading up on it and am thinking of taking this route.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

mojo-jojo said:


> Mine are like this had it for about 18 months, when I'm cold they look completely fine but wearing certain stuff they stick out and look really puffy
> 
> In my pct il try some adex see if it helps it at all annoys me tho lol


Exactly the same here tshirts look stupid, don't think Adex will do anything to be honest mate


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Just want to bump this up, gonna try letro when I get some.

I'm on cycle at the minute and using Adex 1mg eod, should I continue to run it whilst taking letro or not?

And would I need to use nolva after I've finished the letro if I'm still on cycle ?


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Just want to bump this up, gonna try letro when I get some.
> 
> I'm on cycle at the minute and using Adex 1mg eod, should I continue to run it whilst taking letro or not?
> 
> And would I need to use nolva after I've finished the letro if I'm still on cycle ?


Taper up on letro and eventually taper off to prevent rebound. There's a tried an tested protocol knocking about somewhere.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> Taper up on letro and eventually taper off to prevent rebound. There's a tried an tested protocol knocking about somewhere.


Cheers, but even when I've finished tapering off and im still mid cycle will it be alright without nolva ?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

And should I stop arimidex whilst using letro, then start again once I've tapered off letro


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Cheers, but even when I've finished tapering off and im still mid cycle will it be alright without nolva ?


No I'd go back onto the adex mate.

An personally i'd stop adex and wouldn't cross them over.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> No I'd go back onto the adex mate.
> 
> An personally i'd stop adex and wouldn't cross them over.


Thanks for the help mate will update this thread when I get the letro


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Let me know if you find that letrozole thing mate, im desperate lol


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2012)

My next stab at getting rid of mine lol.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

mojo-jojo said:


> Let me know if you find that letrozole thing mate, im desperate lol


Will do, ill update this thread with what I do


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> My next stab at getting rid of mine lol.


How you going to taper up etc mate?

Day 1 : 0.625

Day 2: 1.25

Day 3: 1.875

Day 4: 2.5

Then continue on 2.5 till its gone then taper down the same way?


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## AK-26 (May 29, 2011)

Here is the link to whoever wanted it, the post you're after with the Letro protocol is post #10

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/24435-reversing-gyno-using-letro-femara.html


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2012)

This is from Worldclass bodybuilding, its a long an interesting read.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2012)

Letrozole Gyno Reversal Protocol

letro gyno reversal protocol . I have seen alot of success with people using this protocol .. Here it is if you would like to give it a try..

I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e's. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM - Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means)for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects. Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid) AI - Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI's prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites. Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive: Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. Thisis another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno: If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fullystabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don't know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno&#8230;let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno: I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro. 2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED. 3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1. Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e* Day 2: .50mg Letro Day 3: 1.0mg Letro Day 4: 1.5mg Letro Day 5: 2.0mg Letro Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2. Day 1: .50mg Letro Day 2: 1.0mg Letro Day 3: 1.5mg Letro Day 4: 2.0mg Letro Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3. Day 1: .50mg Letro Day 2: 1.0mg Letro Day 3: 1.5mg Letro Day 4: 2.0mg Letro Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it isimportant to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not havetaken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg Day 2: 1.5mg Day 3: 1.0mg Day 4: .50mg*** Day 5: .25mg ***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound: With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your post cycle therapy so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can't guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effectthatmayoccur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into post cycle therapy and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at20mg EDfora week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Cheers for that protocol, so I should wait until the end of my cycle to do this so I can jump onto the nolva after. If I do it now could I not take arimidex to stop the rebound and continue my cycle as I've only just started it a few weeks ago?


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2012)

I started my letro 2 weeks before cycle and once I tapered off (week 5) I went straight onto 1mg of adex ed.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> I started my letro 2 weeks before cycle and once I tapered off (week 5) I went straight onto 1mg of adex ed.


Nice one, I'm already taking 1mg Adex eod on my cycle so ill just start it back again with my last letro tab


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> I started my letro 2 weeks before cycle and once I tapered off (week 5) I went straight onto 1mg of adex ed.


Did it get rid of your puffy nips mate?


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2012)

To an extent mate yeah.


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Add Title


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

mojo-jojo said:


> Add Title


You what mate?


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## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> You what mate?


Sorry mate phone accidentally done it lol


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## Singh01 (Jan 28, 2011)

My nips are puffy like this aswell, but i can't feel a lump...

I tried 2 weeks on wildcat letro 2.5mg everyday off cycle and it hasn't done anything! I'm now using 1.25 every 3 days as an AI. Its keeping the water weight off which is what i wanted. But it's not made any visible difference to my 'puffy' nips.

Not sure what i can do now after my cycle....


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Singh01 said:


> My nips are puffy like this aswell, but i can't feel a lump...
> 
> I tried 2 weeks on wildcat letro 2.5mg everyday off cycle and it hasn't done anything! I'm now using 1.25 every 3 days as an AI. Its keeping the water weight off which is what i wanted. But it's not made any visible difference to my 'puffy' nips.
> 
> Not sure what i can do now after my cycle....


I haven't got a lump either mate, might not be any good with it not being pharma. Hoping it will make some difference to mine, try staying on it longer ?


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## Singh01 (Jan 28, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> I haven't got a lump either mate, might not be any good with it not being pharma. Hoping it will make some difference to mine, try staying on it longer ?


Yeah i'm gonna get some pharma after cycle and give it another blast 2.5mg ED for a few weeks. ****es me off when you chest looks fat cos of the puffiness


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## newborn (Nov 29, 2011)

Hey I have always had a similar situation to you, no lumps or irritation, im convinced that its actually to do with bodyfat tbh, some people (like you and me) hold alot of fat around the lower chest and under the armpit...

Ive noticed when I go on a cut and drop water the puffyness almost vanishes

Have you ever gone below 8% bodyfat? Im sure it would vanish if you did


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## Singh01 (Jan 28, 2011)

newborn said:


> Hey I have always had a similar situation to you, no lumps or irritation, im convinced that its actually to do with bodyfat tbh, some people (like you and me) hold alot of fat around the lower chest and under the armpit...
> 
> Ive noticed when I go on a cut and drop water the puffyness almost vanishes
> 
> Have you ever gone below 8% bodyfat? Im sure it would vanish if you did


Can't be chest fat for me mate or i would have noticed it before i did my first cycle. I don't have any irritation either. I noticed the puffiness a few weeks into my cycle.

However i've never been under around 10-12% bf. Looks like lewy_h is though and he has the same problem.


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## newborn (Nov 29, 2011)

Singh01 said:


> Can't be chest fat for me mate or i would have noticed it before i did my first cycle. I don't have any irritation either. I noticed the puffiness a few weeks into my cycle. However i've never been under around 10-12% bf. Looks like lewy_h is though and he has the same problem.


 One of the things about cycling is the psychological side though. The reason im mentioning this is because I too thought that after my first prohormone cycle that I deveoped puffyness, it was only when I saw a picture of myself a year before did I notice that it was always there, its just that I wasnt paranoid about it beforehand because, lets be honest, 99% of the public wouldnt even notice slight puffy nips, its only cause we have done the research and know the causes that we see it. Lewy looks about 12-14% bodyfat in his AVI IMO EDIT: Have a look at that other thread in this section where the guy has gone on a cut, you can see in his before and after pics that he did have puffyness around the nipple area and post cut it has vanished


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

newborn said:


> One of the things about cycling is the psychological side though. The reason im mentioning this is because I too thought that after my first prohormone cycle that I deveoped puffyness, it was only when I saw a picture of myself a year before did I notice that it was always there, its just that I wasnt paranoid about it beforehand because, lets be honest, 99% of the public wouldnt even notice slight puffy nips, its only cause we have done the research and know the causes that we see it. Lewy looks about 12-14% bodyfat in his AVI IMO EDIT: Have a look at that other thread in this section where the guy has gone on a cut, you can see in his before and after pics that he did have puffyness around the nipple area and post cut it has vanished


I think your right about us just being paranoid as well. I found a holiday photo of me when I was about 10 stone before I started the gym and they didn't look perky then either haha.

Trying letro anyway to see if I can get rid of it all together.

Day 1: 1mg Adex and 0.625mg Letro


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> I think your right about us just being paranoid as well. I found a holiday photo of me when I was about 10 stone before I started the gym and they didn't look perky then either haha.
> 
> Trying letro anyway to see if I can get rid of it all together.
> 
> Day 1: 1mg Adex and 0.625mg Letro


Is there a need to taper up Letro ?

I'm not saying otherwise, it's a genuine question.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Thatcca said:


> Is there a need to taper up Letro ?
> 
> I'm not saying otherwise, it's a genuine question.


No idea it was just recommended to, I'm only tapering up in quarters anyway so only a few days


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## frantic (May 29, 2009)

start off on 2.5mg ED. when ur coming off, half a tab for a week, then half a tab eod for a week. then 20mg nolv for 2week


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Don't waste your time tapering, just go straight in at 2.5mg......You can taper down though if you want

Why are you running adex and letro?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

frantic said:


> start off on 2.5mg ED. when ur coming off, half a tab for a week, then half a tab eod for a week. then 20mg nolv for 2week


Okay cheers, I'm on a cycle at the min so will be going back onto Adex instead of nolva.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Don't waste your time tapering, just go straight in at 2.5mg......You can taper down though if you want
> 
> Why are you running adex and letro?


On cycle at the minute so took Adex with the first day of letro


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## Lazyballs (Apr 22, 2012)

Finding it hard to get letro myself my source dose not do it . Any one no of a cheap pharmacy that dose them . Thanks in advance


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

Lazyballs said:


> Finding it hard to get letro myself my source dose not do it . Any one no of a cheap pharmacy that dose them . Thanks in advance


United Pharmacies UK or All Day Chemist.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

On day 7 of 2.5mg, no change yet im afraid


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## sunn (Apr 11, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> On day 7 of 2.5mg, no change yet im afraid


Be interested to see if it works I have some letro as I have a white circle round my right nipple which appears when I'm hot no lumps mind and am hoping that will get rid of it!

The only thing that worries me is the ffect on sex drive as not on cycle!


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Might try taking two of these 2.5mg tabs as one isn't going jack ****


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> Might try taking two of these 2.5mg tabs as one isn't going jack ****


takes time mate


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> takes time mate


Been on them 2 weeks at 2.5mg


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> Been on them 2 weeks at 2.5mg


you tapered to begin with though didnt you? im sure took about 3weeks at 2,5.mg aday for me


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> you tapered to begin with though didnt you? im sure took about 3weeks at 2,5.mg aday for me


I did just a quarter then I got told to just go straight in at 2.5 so I did. Okay ill give it another week on 2.5 then maybe do 1 and a half tabs for a week If no change


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## Singh01 (Jan 28, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> I did just a quarter then I got told to just go straight in at 2.5 so I did. Okay ill give it another week on 2.5 then maybe do 1 and a half tabs for a week If no change


Are you using pharma letro?


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> I did just a quarter then I got told to just go straight in at 2.5 so I did. Okay ill give it another week on 2.5 then maybe do 1 and a half tabs for a week If no change


what brand are they? 2.5 should be well enough


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Wildcat ones


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> Wildcat ones


get pharma mate, problem with wildcat orals is there hit and miss, like the mix isnt mixed enough evenly so as they go through the pill press one could be all letro and no filler and the next could be all filler


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm on day 12 of generic Letro from United Pharmacies and so far, no effect.

I dose in the morning and by afternoon it subsides but by night/bed time it's back to being painful and puffy again.

I plan on trying it for 10 weeks though to see.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> get pharma mate, problem with wildcat orals is there hit and miss, like the mix isnt mixed enough evenly so as they go through the pill press one could be all letro and no filler and the next could be all filler


Yeah I probably will order some now, anyone used the letro off HP?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Thatcca said:


> I'm on day 12 of generic Letro from United Pharmacies and so far, no effect.
> 
> I dose in the morning and by afternoon it subsides but by night/bed time it's back to being painful and puffy again.
> 
> I plan on trying it for 10 weeks though to see.


You got lumps? Mines just for puffiness, you feeling any side effects?


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## smithy12345 (Dec 13, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> You got lumps? Mines just for puffiness, you feeling any side effects?


Alright pal, your nips dont look too bad from the pics, do you have any tenderness, itchiness etc ?? Or just puffy nips....apologies if youvee already stated this only read 1st page


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> You got lumps? Mines just for puffiness, you feeling any side effects?


Yeah I've got lumps. I had bad night sweats for the first week but not noticed anything else yet.

I'm going to add Caber in as well, once it turns up, to see if it will help. That will also help to counteract the loss of libido, if and when that happens.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

smithy12345 said:


> Alright pal, your nips dont look too bad from the pics, do you have any tenderness, itchiness etc ?? Or just puffy nips....apologies if youvee already stated this only read 1st page


There just puffy and wanted to try get rid of the puffiness mate. They totally go when I'm taking nolva so guessed it was down to oestrogen


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> There just puffy and wanted to try get rid of the puffiness mate. They totally go when I'm taking nolva so guessed it was down to oestrogen


if there just puffy then letro isnt needed mate, why not just run adex if nolva shifts puffyness?


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## smithy12345 (Dec 13, 2011)

Thats one of my biggest fears about cycling, 1st cycle next couple of weeks, planning 1ml test prop eod, planning on running adex 1mg eod, would you advise running nolva aswell as adex ??


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> if there just puffy then letro isnt needed mate, why not just run adex if nolva shifts puffyness?


I already run Adex, they stay puffy even when I'm not on cycle


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

smithy12345 said:


> Thats one of my biggest fears about cycling, 1st cycle next couple of weeks, planning 1ml test prop eod, planning on running adex 1mg eod, would you advise running nolva aswell as adex ??


You'll be fine with just Adex, then just keep nolva for pct. why test prop for a first cycle though ? You'll hate it


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

smithy12345 said:


> Thats one of my biggest fears about cycling, 1st cycle next couple of weeks, planning 1ml test prop eod, planning on running adex 1mg eod, would you advise running nolva aswell as adex ??


no mate adex is enough


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> You'll be fine with just Adex, then just keep nolva for pct. why test prop for a first cycle though ? You'll hate it


maybe you naturally have puffy nips mate, if there puffy off cycle it wont be eastregon


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> maybe you naturally have puffy nips mate, if there puffy off cycle it wont be eastregon


When I done my last pct they completely went when I was talking nolva... Which makes me think its down to oestrogen


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

when off cycle though hormone levels will return and when that happens unless you have hard lumps behind your nipples they will return to there normal state, by that theory you have high eastregon off cycle then its not gear related and maybe you should see your gp?

hotdog is the man to see about all this mate


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> when off cycle though hormone levels will return and when that happens unless you have hard lumps behind your nipples they will return to there normal state, by that theory you have high eastregon off cycle then its not gear related and maybe you should see your gp?
> 
> hotdog is the man to see about all this mate


Oh right humm. Just thought puffiness would be gyno so reversible with letro


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2012)

Yep listen to Hotdog, heard to often that Wildcat letro is useless.

Pharma always where gyno or ai is concerned.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> Yeah I probably will order some now, anyone used the letro off HP?


Yes mate, it's the same stuff you get from united pharmacies, it's good stuff

I can't comment on WC letro as I've never used it, but for peace of mind, especially with situations like this it's best to use pharma meds, from what I've seen they cost roughly the same anyway!

It takes a while for levels to peak too, I suggest you get the pharma tabs and start fresh

Give it at least 4 weeks before you decide to throw the towel in

Probably not what you want to hear but sometimes with people gyno is unresponsive to meds at all and only surgery will get rid of it


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Yes mate, it's the same stuff you get from united pharmacies, it's good stuff
> 
> I can't comment on WC letro as I've never used it, but for peace of mind, especially with situations like this it's best to use pharma meds, from what I've seen they cost roughly the same anyway!
> 
> ...


Cheers. I will order some of that today then, do you think letro is the way to go for me with them just being puffy ?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> Cheers. I will order some of that today then, do you think letro is the way to go for me with them just being puffy ?


Well, have they always been like that? Before you touched AAS?

20mg nolva ED for 6 months is another option, there are studies showing this is successful in pubertal gyno


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Well, have they always been like that? Before you touched AAS?
> 
> 20mg nolva ED for 6 months is another option, there are studies showing this is successful in pubertal gyno


I don't remember, I did a few cycles with no pct or AI when I was younger and didn't research anything stupidly. Might load up on nolva for when I've done pct then just continue with nolva


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> I don't remember, I did a few cycles with no pct or AI when I was younger and didn't research anything stupidly. Might load up on nolva for when I've done pct then just continue with nolva


if there where you wouldnt of noticed as you wert aware of this side effect, now you know about gyno you could be putting it down to that when really youve always had them


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> if there where you wouldnt of noticed as you wert aware of this side effect, now you know about gyno you could be putting it down to that when really youve always had them


I've always been skinny though I don't think they were like this until I used steroids or I would have noticed fat nipples ha, need to try find some topless photos off before I started lifting


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> I've always been skinny though I don't think they were like this until I used steroids or I would have noticed fat nipples ha, need to try find some topless photos off before I started lifting


lol goodluck with that :thumb:


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Ordered some pharma stuff last night, feel like they've got worse since I've been using that wc stuff whilst I'm on cycle


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Actually think I'm starting to get gyno now whilst taking this "letro" off wildcat! Nipples are hurting and starting to feel a bit tissue behind one


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## XMS (Jun 23, 2011)

seriusly you will know when the gyno lump starts, its like a hard pea with two tubes connecting to it. Puffyness is a sign BUT is also a sign of fat! if your testing and playing with your nips every hour to check then they will start to hurt!!!

Now carm down and dont touch! get some Femara (Letrozole) in. Cipla "Fempro" or sun parm "letroz" have both worked wonders for me in the past. If you get painful dry joints and your lump (not puffynes) hasnt decreased you will struggle to remove it. If your still puffy with no lump get on that tread mill boyo  x


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

XMS said:


> seriusly you will know when the gyno lump starts, its like a hard pea with two tubes connecting to it. Puffyness is a sign BUT is also a sign of fat! if your testing and playing with your nips every hour to check then they will start to hurt!!!
> 
> Now carm down and dont touch! get some Femara (Letrozole) in. Cipla "Fempro" or sun parm "letroz" have both worked wonders for me in the past. If you get painful dry joints and your lump (not puffynes) hasnt decreased you will struggle to remove it. If your still puffy with no lump get on that tread mill boyo  x


Cheers I'm starting to freak myself out I think. I've had puffiness for ages and now I'm trying to get rid of it, I feel like its getting worse. I've ordered that sun pharma stuff, do you think I look fat enough to have moobs ha?


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## XMS (Jun 23, 2011)

its one of the first places i put it back on tho! just remeber to not worry yet i have reve****d gyno twice now, my puffyness only started once the pea had developed and at no point did they feel sore

good luck pal


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

XMS said:


> its one of the first places i put it back on tho! just remeber to not worry yet i have reve****d gyno twice now, my puffyness only started once the pea had developed and at no point did they feel sore
> 
> good luck pal


I'm a skinny c*nt though never been overweight ha. Hoping this pharma letro just gets rid of it straight away.

Cheers


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

your lucky ive got grapes behind mine lol


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> your lucky ive got grapes behind mine lol


Haha probably that WC **** !!


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

I personally loved WC letro! Done the job I wanted it too perfectly and quickly with low sides. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> I personally loved WC letro! Done the job I wanted it too perfectly and quickly with low sides. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.


My nipples have gone worse since I've stopped Adex and used the letro off them :/


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

Looks like there about to start milking take some caber with decent letro mate


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ashmo said:


> Looks like there about to start milking take some caber with decent letro mate


Bastard, anyone update me on how I'd run caber? Will have to try source some quick


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

0.5mg every 3 days


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ashmo said:


> 0.5mg every 3 days


Thanks, gonna have to order some now


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Well this cycle has cost me a bomb


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

Cant reply to the PM mate I would cut your cycle short as it looks like its prolactin gyno from the tren wait till you get your caber keep with the letro till then


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ashmo said:


> Cant reply to the PM mate I would cut your cycle short as it looks like its prolactin gyno from the tren wait till you get your caber keep with the letro till then


No prob, ah bastard that's the last thing I want to do. Can I not reverse this whilst on cycle anyone?


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

Get it under control first then see from there


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## BIGBANG (Jun 20, 2007)

prolactin gyno ive sufferd twice when your cold it looks perfect its only when your warm you can tell ??? had mine removed twice and ive got it back again in 1 side i feel your pain mate its not noticable gyno but you know its there


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

BIGBANG said:


> prolactin gyno ive sufferd twice when your cold it looks perfect its only when your warm you can tell ??? had mine removed twice and ive got it back again in 1 side i feel your pain mate its not noticable gyno but you know its there


Yeah that's exactly what it's like, what steroids can you get prolactin gyno off? Did you try caber or anything mate first, how much was it to get removed


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## BIGBANG (Jun 20, 2007)

i got mine removed nhs mate i didnt try caber but something im researching at the moment as i need it now :sad: tren/deca can cause it mate


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

BIGBANG said:


> i got mine removed nhs mate i didnt try caber but something im researching at the moment as i need it now :sad: tren/deca can cause it mate


How did you get the NHS to do it mate? I've just ordered some and letro so will be updating this thread


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## BIGBANG (Jun 20, 2007)

nhs i cried blue murder and said it was mentally effecting me mate but hopefully letro will work i realy would small amount of test with it might sound daft but letro realy does [email protected] with the body and mind


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

BIGBANG said:


> nhs i cried blue murder and said it was mentally effecting me mate but hopefully letro will work i realy would small amount of test with it might sound daft but letro realy does [email protected] with the body and mind


If this caber and letro doesn't work for me ill be going into my gp with a rope round my neck. I'm on 800mg test a week now anyway, got about 5 weeks left


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## BIGBANG (Jun 20, 2007)

hope it goes well for you mate its that bad my gyno i carnt even take hgh


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

BIGBANG said:


> hope it goes well for you mate its that bad my gyno i carnt even take hgh


Cheers , does that make it worse? I'm probably going to hesitate taking anything now


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Guys, only estrogen cause gyno, no such thing as 'prolactin gyno'

You lactate if you have high prolactin but you would already have gyno from ESTROGEN if this happens, that's a fact


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Guys, only estrogen cause gyno, no such thing as 'prolactin gyno'
> 
> You lactate if you have high prolactin but you would already have gyno from ESTROGEN if this happens, that's a fact


Well I'm taking tren at the minute and I already had puffy nipples/gyno.

Would you say letro and caber will sort me out?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> Well I'm taking tren at the minute and I already had puffy nipples/gyno.
> 
> Would you say letro and caber will sort me out?


If you have high prolactin and your nips are lactating then caber would be helpful

Unless you have bloods done to show high prolactin or as I said above about lactating then caber is not required


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Pharma letro has arrived hopefully to save the day


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## Singh01 (Jan 28, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> Pharma letro has arrived hopefully to save the day


You noticing any difference by using pharma in comparison to Wildcat mate?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

It's definitely going down I've got caber as well to use, only on my 6th day of pharma letro but it doesn't hurt anymore still a bit puffy


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> It's definitely going down I've got caber as well to use, only on my 6th day of pharma letro but it doesn't hurt anymore still a bit puffy


Glad to hear that mate, keep us updated


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Glad to hear that mate, keep us updated


Will get a pic tomorrow when my nips are warm ha


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

There pretty much like this all the time now, so far I've had

8 x 2.5mg letro

2 x 0.5mg caber


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

They don't look bad at all mate, sometimes a side pic is better to show it though

From those pics, I can't tell you have any issue at all TBH


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> They don't look bad at all mate, sometimes a side pic is better to show it though
> 
> From those pics, I can't tell you have any issue at all TBH


Just still a bit dodgy once there warm, I haven't got any pharma Adex so could I just continue using letro as an AI once I'm happy I'm rid of this?


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## Singh01 (Jan 28, 2011)

Looks quite alot better compared to before. Hotdogs's right though take a side pic, like the first set you uploaded.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Singh01 said:


> Looks quite alot better compared to before. Hotdogs's right though take a side pic, like the first set you uploaded.


They look erect half the time now ha, I will do tomorrow mate when there warm


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> Just still a bit dodgy once there warm, I haven't got any pharma Adex so could I just continue using letro as an AI once I'm happy I'm rid of this?


Tricky to dose but yes you can

Adex or aromasin are easier


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Tricky to dose but yes you can
> 
> Adex or aromasin are easier


I've just got some pharma Adex there anyway, what dose do you think I should go with when I come off this letro.. Thinking 1mg eod, I don't know how long I'm gonna stay on the letro for yet though.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Update.

Onto day 21 of 2.5mg letro

Had 6 x 0.5mg caber.. Still a bit puffy when warm but not half as bad as before. Feel like crap though and joints are hurting, going to do another week at 2.5 then taper off


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Mine are like your starting pic and i do have lumps yunder mine. My next cruise ill be running letro at 2.5mg a day for as long as it takes to get it a bit better. Very paranoid about it and find im pinching nips all the time when i have tshirt on to get nip on lol


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

Lewy - Post 122 pic shows the clear white ring around your nipple. so its the start of something.

Lewy- I can't remember but have you got your blood work done yet? are you going to get it done?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Suprakill4 said:


> Mine are like your starting pic and i do have lumps yunder mine. My next cruise ill be running letro at 2.5mg a day for as long as it takes to get it a bit better. Very paranoid about it *and find im pinching nips all the time *when i have tshirt on to get nip on lol


NOOOOOOOOO! Worse thing you can do that is mate. Leave the fcukers alone, you can actually make it worse


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

My friend's "gyno" is mostly that " soft- watery -spongy white ring around the nipple " sort of thing.

Also, both his nipples tend to point down and are stretched out abit. this has nothign to do with his muscle mass- they tend to hang off the skin a bit.

There same sort of thing is going on with him as there is with you although yours seems a bit milder- there is no hard grape behind it. no hard mass. just the start of what appears to be breast tissue.

for his own reasons, he hasn't had any blood work done so no information on :

TT, FT, E2, Prolactin, Cortisol or whatever else.

he's doing the 20 mg Nolva per day to try to get rid of it.

We are holding off using letro until he definitely needs it.

Asking other guys about their experience, I have been told that their " gyno" started out this same way- it was first just this soft white ring around their nipple.

they sort of ignored it. but it never went away and next cycle got worse. Everyone told me that they did a proper PCT but since memory tends to play tricks with people, I don't know for sure.

Based upon your experience , it appears taht letro is good for getting rid of the lumps but maybe not as effective for getting rid of the softer mass of tissue.

There is a concept of some people being more estrogen sensitive than other people. you may have that specific receptor protein that allows the tissue to respond positively to estrogen. and respond positively actually means "Horribly" for men who are trying to avoid breast tissue swelling and whatever else.


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Hotdog147 said:


> NOOOOOOOOO! Worse thing you can do that is mate. Leave the fcukers alone, you can actually make it worse


didnt know that, i only do it because when have nip on they look fine, Ah well, letro on next cruise it is then.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Suprakill4 said:


> didnt know that, i only do it because when have nip on they look fine, Ah well, letro on next cruise it is then.


Having had and reversed gyno myself I could confidently say that only YOU notice it through a t-shirt

It really fcuks with your head, best thing to do is just try not to think about it, honest


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

This thread has brought up another issue:

1. estrogen caused gyno

2. progesterone caused gyno

3. prolactin caused gyno.

I think that people who talk about the latter two 'types' of gyno are making a small error in interpretation. as @Mars , @Hotdog147 and others have pointed out that only estrogen causes gyno.

I think that what people mean when they say #2 is that they mean gyno produced by taking progesterone based AAS. ( through whatever action )

and the milk lactation/sensitivity bought on by prolactin for #3.

it was brought to my attention recently when people started telling me about deca gyno and tren gyno and whatever.

when my prolactin was high, I was very emotionally sensitive - not so much to my own emotions but got weepy when horrible things happened to others. it may have come in handy in some lines of work or for some people , but for me, it was a bit tiresome. So I keep my prolactin level low

so you may want to figure out your own levels on your own.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Mine are like your starting pic and i do have lumps yunder mine. My next cruise ill be running letro at 2.5mg a day for as long as it takes to get it a bit better. Very paranoid about it and find im pinching nips all the time when i have tshirt on to get nip on lol


They've improved loads from the first pic, my left one was always puffy now they look erect nearly all the time. Feeling pretty run down after 3 weeks on it though.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

dominimo said:


> Lewy - Post 122 pic shows the clear white ring around your nipple. so its the start of something.
> 
> Lewy- I can't remember but have you got your blood work done yet? are you going to get it done?


What do you mean a white ring is the start of something mate? I haven't had blood tests done and I won't be getting them done


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

I ran letro before but couldn't do with the sides but will give it a shot again because mentally it effect me alot even though its not too bad


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> I ran letro before but couldn't do with the sides but will give it a shot again because mentally it effect me alot even though its not too bad


My joints hurt a bit, and I feel pretty run down but I'm hoping it will be worth it in the end.


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> What do you mean a white ring is the start of something mate? I haven't had blood tests done and I won't be getting them done


HI Lewy,

The little ring around your nipple. sort of like a doughnut. that appears on everyone who goes on to get gyno with that hard lump. If it is not immediately fixed. I hope that I am far off on this one but with talking with other guys, they always tell me that this is how it started.

they get this white puffy sort of translucent skin around their nipple, it has a viscosity of motor oil and doesn't go away when lean.

sometimes it doesn't actually form a small hard bean or pea: it just settles there as a amorphous lump around the nipple.

your situation is not overly bad. it always bothers the person more so than anyone else. I hope it all goes well for you.


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Lewy_h said:


> My joints hurt a bit, and I feel pretty run down but I'm hoping it will be worth it in the end.


Sounds like it is already mate.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

dominimo said:


> HI Lewy,
> 
> The little ring around your nipple. sort of like a doughnut. that appears on everyone who goes on to get gyno with that hard lump. If it is not immediately fixed. I hope that I am far off on this one but with talking with other guys, they always tell me that this is how it started.
> 
> ...


Ah right mate, hoping I've caught it early then and won't end up getting lumps and sh*t. No one else has ever mentioned them so It might just be me who notices them really, cheers


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Mine are like your starting pic and i do have lumps yunder mine. My next cruise ill be running letro at 2.5mg a day for as long as it takes to get it a bit better. Very paranoid about it and find im pinching nips all the time when i have tshirt on to get nip on lol


I'm the same also, paranoid when I'm in tight t-shirts and warm and they puff up.

Always try an make sure I'm cold etc so ill go out with the lads for a cig if I'm out that kind of thing.

I've 50 letro's standing by but not going to use till a summer cut an bf is down.

I've had it since I was wee teenager, just gets worse on a bulk and adex isn't enough.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Spawn of Haney said:


> I'm the same also, paranoid when I'm in tight t-shirts and warm and they puff up.
> 
> Always try an make sure I'm cold etc so ill go out with the lads for a cig if I'm out that kind of thing.
> 
> ...


Looks crap doesn't it a big puffy lump through your top ha, i just had 50 x 2.5mg's going to start tapering off once I've used 30 I think


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm on day 36 at 2.5mg and my lumps are now noticeably shrinking away. Up until the beginning of this week they were still painful at times and I was questioning the Letro at times but I carried on thankfully.

It may just be a coincidence but I have done cardio everyday this week. So not sure which is the cause of the shrinking really but I'll carry on both for as long as my knees will let me ha.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Thatcca said:


> I'm on day 36 at 2.5mg and my lumps are now noticeably shrinking away. Up until the beginning of this week they were still painful at times and I was questioning the Letro at times but I carried on thankfully.
> 
> It may just be a coincidence but I have done cardio everyday this week. So not sure which is the cause of the shrinking really but I'll carry on both for as long as my knees will let me ha.


Got any pictures of what they were like? Are you not using pharma letro. It's my elbows that are killing me more than anything


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## ryancop (Dec 5, 2012)

I have gyno with lumps my right one is worse, I ran letro for like six weeks and didn't really do much reduced it a bit. im thinking surgery may be my only option  I just looked and it was pharma letro aswell !it just embarresing in a t shirt as your nips stick out ! if you drop your bf will it not make it worse ?


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

ryancop said:


> I have gyno with lumps my right one is worse, I ran letro for like six weeks and didn't really do much reduced it a bit. im thinking surgery may be my only option  I just looked and it was pharma letro aswell !it just embarresing in a t shirt as your nips stick out ! if you drop your bf will it not make it worse ?


I think it will look worse if you have a lower bf because the tissues still going to be there and stick out more. We're you running it at 2.5mg a day as well for six weeks?


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## ryancop (Dec 5, 2012)

yes I was thinking the same, but apparently dropping bf below 10 % can make it almost unnoticeable ?? I tapered up to 2.5 for a minimum of 5 week and not a great deal of change apart from the emotional break downs and mood swings which isn't fun, then went on t tamoxifen to counter rebound and now on pct ! not really sure what else I can do ? this is from a test-p cycle and winny any help would be appreciated.


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## Thatcca (Jul 31, 2011)

Lewy_h said:


> Got any pictures of what they were like? Are you not using pharma letro. It's my elbows that are killing me more than anything


I've been using Fempro/Cipla pharma Letro from UP since day one, but apart from night sweats, I've had no side effects at all and until very recently, no positive signs either as my nips were still sore for weeks. If I wasn't smashing the cardio as much as possible, I doubt I'd have noticed the knee pains either.

No pics just yet mate.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Day 29 of 2.5mg letro

My nips are still puffy some times  , hoping they will go completely when I come off cycle


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## quackfly (Jul 26, 2012)

I really need some advice from someone out there. Long story short, i was running a low dose of test with para, got gyno lump and swollen tit. got onto letro, 2.5 mg per day, reduced lump and tit after a couple of months to barely nothing. i was just about to start coming off it by tapering down, and here comes the wierd part, i got a tattoo on my pec and the whole thing, flared up, lump/pain returned and so did bitch tit (can trauma like a tattoo have an effect like that??). The letro appeared to have stopped working and i seemed to go into rebound.

Anyone who has or had gyno knows what a head mess it is, I spend all day looking at it in the mirror and either being gutted or pleased,thinking its better or worse but the bottom line is i have one pec bigger than the other by a mile. not the saggy puffy type that most pics seem to be but rather like its made my pec muscle grow. I try to tell myself the letro(fempro) worked once and it should again.

My question is, does the body become used to letro and after how long? is this why it appears to have stopped working? and if so how can i "reset" my levels to maybe give the letro another chance to fight the gyno.

like i say its making me **** myself big time at the thought of surgery/disfigurment etc. I'm just so gutted that i'm in this awful mess.

please fellas, i'd really like to hear from those of you with past experience of a similar problem, i know surgery may be my only possible solution but i dont have the money and dread the thought of explaining surgery to my family etc so if thats all u have to say then please, dont, I know! im trying to stay positive so positive comments only pleeese. lol but if anyone knows if maybe letro maxed out or something and how get it working again please give me ur advice.

Cheers

p.s.

I.ve put this in a few threads so if u read it twice i'm not a nutter, just hoping someone with experience reads it


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Took my last jab yesterday of long estered blend. Only got 8 letro tabs left so should I just start pct after only 8 days of last jab?

Should I overlap the letro with nolva ?

Any advice please @hotdog


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Run half a tab ED or 1 EOD then switch to the nolva and run pct IMO

That's how I'd do it mate


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Run half a tab ED or 1 EOD then switch to the nolva and run pct IMO
> 
> That's how I'd do it mate


Nice one was thinking that, shall I overlap the nolva at all ?


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Nice one was thinking that, shall I overlap the nolva at all ?


Did they ever go down Lewy? @Lewy_h


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

@WhizzKid Only just seen you asked mate, mine are still puffy when warm im afraid! thats after 60 Days on 2.5mg letro then 40 Days 20mg nolva


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

I have found the puffiness of the nipples is down to carbs and/or bodyfat....no amount of ai or serm reduces mine.


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> @WhizzKid Only just seen you asked mate, mine are still puffy when warm im afraid! thats after 60 Days on 2.5mg letro then 40 Days 20mg nolva


Im on about 2 weeks now of Letro, started at 1.25 then this week upped to 2.5. Think im going to start coming off as im not seeing any difference either. Went to the breast clinic the other week and the doc confirmed I have mild gyno. Not sure if surgery will make them flat or just make matters worse. ProMag35, wish I never touched a ****ty prohormone now and stuck to what is known.

Thanks for updating anyway mate, appreciate it


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> Im on about 2 weeks now of Letro, started at 1.25 then this week upped to 2.5. Think im going to start coming off as im not seeing any difference either. Went to the breast clinic the other week and the doc confirmed I have mild gyno. Not sure if surgery will make them flat or just make matters worse. ProMag35, wish I never touched a ****ty prohormone now and stuck to what is known.
> 
> Thanks for updating anyway mate, appreciate it


Did your GP refer you to a breast clinic mate? I would like someone to tell me if mine is definitely breast tissue, I'd like to get mine sorted some time if it is. I done loads of dbol etc when I was 18 stupidly with no ai or pct's


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Did your GP refer you to a breast clinic mate? I would like someone to tell me if mine is definitely breast tissue, I'd like to get mine sorted some time if it is. I done loads of dbol etc when I was 18 stupidly with no ai or pct's


Well the first GP I went to said no you have no gyno and dont take tamoxifen. His whole persona was really arrogant and looked at me like is this all your worrying about. I then changed doctor and the second said he couldnt find a lump either but i might have a little extra tissue. I said I was worried and that I wanted it to be checked. He then referred me to the breast clinic where the doctor said I had very mild gynecomastia and he can feel it slightly in my left nipple. To me it feels like theres more fat build up then anything else. Im 16% bodyfat so im wondering when I had the start of gyno if all my fat deposits are now sitting there.

the specialist also said that I shouldnt run the risk of surgery but it gets me down every day looking at these puffy nipples. To be fair they are just like yours and I wouldnt think that they are that bad but just knowing its there and seeing it slightly through tshirts is starting to rack me off. Keep me updated Lewy if you can mate and I will do the same.

Forgot to put, how did you taper off Lewy? Ive seen lots of protocols but trying to cut the tablet up will be a nightmare. So i was thinking Day 1 whole tab

Day 2 three quarter tab

Day 3 Half Tab

Day 4 Quarter tab + 20mg Nolva

Day 5 Quarter tab + 20mg Nolva

Then continue with Nolva

Dont know if that would be enough to be honest.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> Well the first GP I went to said no you have no gyno and dont take tamoxifen. His whole persona was really arrogant and looked at me like is this all your worrying about. I then changed doctor and the second said he couldnt find a lump either but i might have a little extra tissue. I said I was worried and that I wanted it to be checked. He then referred me to the breast clinic where the doctor said I had very mild gynecomastia and he can feel it slightly in my left nipple. To me it feels like theres more fat build up then anything else. Im 16% bodyfat so im wondering when I had the start of gyno if all my fat deposits are now sitting there.
> 
> the specialist also said that I shouldnt run the risk of surgery but it gets me down every day looking at these puffy nipples. To be fair they are just like yours and I wouldnt think that they are that bad but just knowing its there and seeing it slightly through tshirts is starting to rack me off. Keep me updated Lewy if you can mate and I will do the same.
> 
> ...


Cheers for the info I may go see my gp but most of them are useless, the doctor who's practise it is actually asked me what I thought was wrong with me when I went in for something. I hate mine as well mate they look fine cold or when I've had caffeine etc, so I'm going to be drinking redbull all holiday.

I done what hotdog told me to do in this thread somewhere, I'm sure I just went to 2.5mg every other day? Then overlapped a day with nolva and done 40 days of that.


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

Has anyone successfully got rid off puffy nipples using letro etc? Might have one last attempt before I go to the doctors


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## bigbob33 (Jan 19, 2009)

Bookmarked for later


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> Has anyone successfully got rid off puffy nipples using letro etc? Might have one last attempt before I go to the doctors


Any progress mate? Letro made jack sh*t difference for me. I was on for 3 weeks but I dont know if this was long enough to be honest. Just taking Nolva now up until I go on holiday.

Read alot about the surgical route, appears alot of people swap the gyno for scar tissue and can still look puffy. Havent a clue what to do now :/


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## Santoro (Jan 26, 2013)

I've been running Letro 2.5mg and Nolva 20mg ed for nearly 2 weeks (with 1500iu eod hcg). Gyno lumps have almost completely gone but a little puffiness remains. I've had the slight puffiness a while now though and think it is mostly due to body fat. Mine is just a bit less than yours and is only noticable at certain angles or if you touch the nipple. I'll be starting 5 weeks of Clomid 50mg (twice a day for one week, once a day for 4 weeks) and Nolva 20mg ed. Hopefully by the end of this PCT my nips will be back to normal. I reckon though that unless I get my bodyfat down (currently 12%) there will aways be some sign of puffiness. Am going low carb + 2 day fasting for the summer, see if this helps!


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

keep us updated mate, im sure me and @Lewy_h would like to know how it goes


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## Surfer dude (Apr 2, 2010)

Im using ur advise to take letro alone but a quick question do u think its ok to start test cycle straight after my gyno reversed works instead of using nolva a like u mentioned for rebound ?


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