# Clean bulk vs dirty bulk the TRUTH



## danj02

Can you guys help clear up the mixed views on both types of bulking?

Is it true that you gain more muscle on a dirty bulk, although you'll obviously have to cut for longer to loose the extra fat?


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## IGotTekkers

The truth is ... there is no clean and dirty food.

Mind blown, right?


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## Fatstuff

IGotTekkers said:


> The truth is ... there is no clean and dirty food.
> 
> Mind blown, right?


Well, u could argue that vegetables are dirty as they come out the ground and McDonald's is clean as it's gone through lots of processing before u eat it


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## Pain2Gain

IGotTekkers said:


> The truth is ... there is no clean and dirty food.
> 
> Mind blown, right?


Absolutely gob smacked! You mean to tell me it's all Bullshizzle primarily brought about by an industry that's based on lies and out to rip the punter off!?

Well blow me down with a feather


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## Guest

If by dirty bulking you mean eating lots of junk food the likelihood is this would fvck your cholesterol levels up more than a 'clean' diet.


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## reza85

Look at the guys that eat clean most of the time then look at the ones that eat crap

!

Now u tell me what you wane look like


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## reza85

Clean for me = unprocessed unrefined food covering macro and micro needs

Dirty = processed to death cheap refined crap that has no real micronutrian bennifit


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## Breda

reza85 said:


> Clean for me = unprocessed unrefined food covering macro and micro needs
> 
> Dirty = processed to death cheap refined crap that has no real micronutrian bennifit


To simplify

Clean = healthy

Dirty = unhealthy


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## Fatstuff

Breda said:


> To simplify
> 
> Clean = healthy
> 
> Dirty = unhealthy


Can you elaborate?


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## IGotTekkers

reza85 said:


> Clean for me = unprocessed unrefined food covering macro and micro needs
> 
> Dirty = processed to death cheap refined crap that has no real micronutrian bennifit


Your telling me that kfc chicken has no nutritional value simply because it's been deep fried? What about the potato? Or the shredded carrot and cabbage mixed with egg mayo.. clean as a whistle in my book :lol:

I need 4500-5000 calories per day to grow, how the fook could I get that from steamed veg and boiled chicken haha. I eat microwave burgers breakfast, curry and crisps for tea and I look better than most people that I know :thumb:

I'll also add that on my cut last year I went from 19% .bf to around 10-12% with crisps as my main carb source. Even loui marco diets with ice cream and have you seen how shredded he is atm? Obviously good whole foods will keep you healthy, but you can enjoy food and look good at the same time


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## Breda

Sure thing @Fatstuff

Clean = good health

Dirty = not so good health


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## Smitch

IGotTekkers said:


> Your telling me that kfc chicken has no nutritional value simply because it's been deep fried? What about the potato? Or the shredded carrot and cabbage mixed with egg mayo.. clean as a whistle in my book :lol:
> 
> I need 4500-5000 calories per day to grow, how the fook could I get that from steamed veg and boiled chicken haha. I eat microwave burgers breakfast, curry and crisps for tea and *I look better than most people that I know* :thumb:
> 
> I'll also add that on my cut last year I went from 19% .bf to around 10-12% with crisps as my main carb source. Even loui marco diets with ice cream and have you seen how shredded he is atm? Obviously good whole foods will keep you healthy, but you can enjoy food and look good at the same time


Got any recent pics?


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## IGotTekkers

Smitch said:


> Got any recent pics?


Not recent ones no mate. Iv got some from a few months back when I was eating atleast 2 take aways per day?


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## Pain2Gain

OP

if your goal at the min is simply to gain weight the. You get what ever you can get your hands on down your neck,

Then long term look to eat "healthier"

I'm guessing this is the purpose of the thread??


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## huarache

op

eat b!tch


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## Smitch

IGotTekkers said:


> Not recent ones no mate. Iv got some from a few months back when I was eating atleast 2 take aways per day?


Be interesting to see.

I have bits of junk to bump up cals, usually a mars bar or biscuits, sh1t like that but most of my cals are from decent food like home made burgers and chilli etc with a couple of whey shakes with maltodextrin to up carbs and cals.


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## Mr Self

everyone should do clean bulk.


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## huarache

Smitch said:


> Be interesting to see.
> 
> I have bits of junk to bump up cals, usually a mars bar or biscuits, sh1t like that but most of my cals are from decent food like home made burgers and chilli etc with a couple of whey shakes with maltodextrin to up carbs and cals.


 @Smitch off topic but do you pin your ass or glute?  (i wanna do ass, is there any reason not to do glute? as ive seen that glute sites are not recommended)


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## Fatstuff

sckeane said:


> @Smitch off topic but do you pin your ass or glute?  (i wanna do ass, is there any reason not to do glute? as ive seen that glute sites are not recommended)


Ass is glute is ass


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## IGotTekkers

sckeane said:


> @Smitch off topic but do you pin your ass or glute?  (i wanna do ass, is there any reason not to do glute? as ive seen that glute sites are not recommended)


My ass is my glute.. where is yours? :lol:


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## IGotTekkers

Mr Self said:


> everyone should do clean bulk.


Why?!?!


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## Smitch

sckeane said:


> @Smitch off topic but do you pin your ass or glute?  (i wanna do ass, is there any reason not to do glute? as ive seen that glute sites are not recommended)


Delts mate, i don't have the mobility to twist round and pin my 4rse, much more control with delts.

Only six weeks into my first injectable cycle so I'm no expert, it works for me though.


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## Fatstuff

IGotTekkers said:


> Why?!?!


Any other way is unhygienic


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## IGotTekkers

Smitch said:


> Be interesting to see.
> 
> I have bits of junk to bump up cals, usually a mars bar or biscuits, sh1t like that but most of my cals are from decent food like home made burgers and chilli etc with a couple of whey shakes with maltodextrin to up carbs and cals.


Both of these were taken the same day



I too eat a lot of chilli and rice etc but I'd say 50/50 is home cooked to store bought or takeawy


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## alpha alkylated

Back on topic

clean = colourful nice looking food

Dirty= browny beige food


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## Smitch

IGotTekkers said:


> Both of these were taken the same day
> 
> View attachment 126576
> View attachment 126578


Ha ha, KFC is minging!

I'd have had a burger king instead. 

You reckon you could get away with it natty?


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## huarache

Fatstuff said:


> Ass is glute is ass





IGotTekkers said:


> My ass is my glute.. where is yours? :lol:


ha yes fcukers, im tired lol meant thigh!



Smitch said:


> Delts mate, i don't have the mobility to twist round and pin my 4rse, much more control with delts.
> 
> Only six weeks into my first injectable cycle so I'm no expert, it works for me though.


getting too big bud haha. ah okay! (sod that though lol defiantly not doing delts!)


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## Fatstuff

sckeane said:


> ha yes fcukers, im tired lol meant thigh!
> 
> getting too big bud haha. ah okay! (sod that though lol defiantly not doing delts!)


Thighs fine m8, that's all I use


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## Smitch

sckeane said:


> ha yes fcukers, im tired lol meant thigh!
> 
> getting too big bud haha. ah okay! (sod that though lol defiantly not doing delts!)


I'm not that big, 15st 2lb at 5ft 9, just not very mobile!

Delts are a piece of p1ss mate, wouldn't do it any other way now.


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## IGotTekkers

Smitch said:


> Ha ha, KFC is minging!
> 
> I'd have had a burger king instead.
> 
> You reckon you could get away with it natty?


There's no BK in my town!! Lol.

And yeah mate iv eaten like this my whole life lol. Obvs I eat more of it now, but in my few months iv just had off gear and out of the gym I still ate ****e and don't really look much different to that pic. :thumbup1:


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## Smitch

IGotTekkers said:


> There's no BK in my town!! Lol.
> 
> And yeah mate iv eaten like this my whole life lol. Obvs I eat more of it now, but in my few months iv just had off gear and out of the gym I still ate ****e and don't really look much different to that pic. :thumbup1:


Can't argue with the stats then.

Wait til you get to may age though, you'll get a gut just looking at that sh1t.


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## dusher

Too many people thinking fat is size. Staying lean increases your capacity for muscle growth. I eat shitty food (chocolate, crisps etc) when bulking because Im weak. If I had the will power to eat clean year round I would. I feel 10 times better now when Im cutting, eating clean 6 days a week.


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## Cactus87

IGotTekkers said:


> Your telling me that kfc chicken has no nutritional value simply because it's been deep fried? What about the potato? Or the shredded carrot and cabbage mixed with egg mayo.. clean as a whistle in my book :lol:
> 
> I need 4500-5000 calories per day to grow, how the fook could I get that from steamed veg and boiled chicken haha. I eat microwave burgers breakfast, curry and crisps for tea and I look better than most people that I know :thumb:
> 
> I'll also add that on my cut last year I went from 19% .bf to around 10-12% with crisps as my main carb source. Even loui marco diets with ice cream and have you seen how shredded he is atm? Obviously good whole foods will keep you healthy, but you can enjoy food and look good at the same time


I wish I could do this. So jealous right now!


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## Fatstuff

Cactus87 said:


> I wish I could do this. So jealous right now!


u can, life is yours to do as u please with it.


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## 2004mark

dusher said:


> Too many people thinking fat is size. Staying lean increases your capacity for muscle growth. I eat shitty food (chocolate, crisps etc) when bulking because Im weak. If I had the will power to eat clean year round I would. I feel 10 times better now when Im cutting, eating clean 6 days a week.


Yeah, but eating clean by no means guarantees you won't get fat.

My first ever proper bulk I went to 200 lbs from 160. I was chuffed because I'd never topped 13st on the scales, never mind 14st. In reality at least 20lbs was fat, I just got taken in my chasing numbers and taking cals too high... even though it was all clean, the cleanest I've ever eaten.

Since then I've been far more relaxed about my diet and have achieved better condition because I've kept macros more in check.


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## PHMG

I personally think the difference is what fats are in the food. If they are "good fats" munch away, if they are full of trans fats and all other crap thats put in processed food...then you are just being lazy and buying ready made sh.it.

You want to eat clean but still have tasty nutritional but most importantly enjoyable food, learn to cook. Really doesnt have to be expensive either. My food bill a week is £55, that includes all spices, oils, meat etc.


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## dusher

2004mark said:


> Yeah, but eating clean by no means guarantees you won't get fat.
> 
> My first ever proper bulk I went to 200 lbs from 160. I was chuffed because I'd never topped 13st on the scales, never mind 14st. In reality at least 20lbs was fat, I just got taken in my chasing numbers and taking cals too high... even though it was all clean, the cleanest I've ever eaten.
> 
> Since then I've been far more relaxed about my diet and have achieved better condition because I've kept macros more in check.


But eating 'dirty' will increase fat storage. As half the time your eating sugar and fat together, ideal for getting fat.


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## 2004mark

dusher said:


> But eating 'dirty' will increase fat storage. As half the time your eating sugar and fat together, ideal for getting fat.


Not denying that... just pointing out that you can still get fat by eating clean.


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## dusher

2004mark said:


> Not denying that... just pointing out that you can still get fat by eating clean.


..and you can lose weight by eating dirty. That wasn't my point. Im saying if your bulking, you will be more successful if your lean. And 'dirty' bulking will lead to more fat storage.


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## 2004mark

dusher said:


> ..and you can lose weight by eating dirty. That wasn't my point. Im saying if your bulking, you will be more successful if your lean. And 'dirty' bulking will lead to more fat storage.


Never mind all that... have you got any bottoms on in your avi :lol:


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## cas

I don't even eat clean when I'm dieting lol

I dieted eating sausages, burgers, breaded chicken, cheese etc


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## simonthepieman

reza85 said:


> Dirty = processed to death cheap refined crap that has no real micronutrian bennifit


Whey?


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## Big Kris

IGotTekkers said:


> Not recent ones no mate. Iv got some from a few months back when I was eating atleast 2 take aways per day?


At least?

So some days you were kicking 3 or 4

This sound like vicious lies to me


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## Fatstuff

Big Kris said:


> At least?
> 
> So some days you were kicking 3 or 4
> 
> This sound like vicious lies to me


cafe sandwich, chippy lunch and kfc dinner


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## Big Kris

Fatstuff said:


> cafe sandwich, chippy lunch and kfc dinner


Body Building diet of a champion right there


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## Fatstuff

Big Kris said:


> Body Building diet of a champion right there


tekkers is champion of the 'dirty' bulk lol


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## Big Kris

Fatstuff said:


> tekkers is champion of the 'dirty' bulk lol


I really do hate this term and the term bulking in general

Personally i keep my diet in check and make quality not quantity gains month on month


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## IGotTekkers

Big Kris said:


> At least?
> 
> So some days you were kicking 3 or 4
> 
> This sound like vicious lies to me


Hhonestly I was mate. The Mrs would drive me to Toby carvery all you can eat breakfast most mornings, then id go home and do a bit of work, then id go to town to the post office and bank, go I to either kfc or mcdonalds and grab 2000 calories, then for tea I'd often order kebabs or Chinese or cook massive pizzas. Snacking on crisps and cheese strings through the day :thumbup1:

The first 15 weeks if that cycle I gained just shy of 30lb with NO increase in .bf%. Infact some said I looked leaner.

My food bill per week was often in excess of £200 :lol: in all honesty I'm a right lazy cvnt, if I had a personal cook I would eat clean all day long. But I was a chef for 5 years and it drained the life from me, so standing chopping veg and peeling spuds.. would rather hang myself


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## simonthepieman

IGotTekkers said:


> Hhonestly I was mate. The Mrs would drive me to Toby carvery all you can eat breakfast most mornings, then id go home and do a bit of work, then id go to town to the post office and bank, go I to either kfc or mcdonalds and grab 2000 calories, then for tea I'd often order kebabs or Chinese or cook massive pizzas. Snacking on crisps and cheese strings through the day :thumbup1:
> 
> The first 15 weeks if that cycle I gained just shy of 30lb with NO increase in .bf%. Infact some said I looked leaner.
> 
> My food bill per week was often in excess of £200 :lol: in all honesty I'm a right lazy cvnt, if I had a personal cook I would eat clean all day long. But I was a chef for 5 years and it drained the life from me, so standing chopping veg and peeling spuds.. would rather hang myself


You should have told @Zorrin your secrets


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## IGotTekkers

simonthepieman said:


> You should have told @Zorrin your secrets


aah but i was running alot more gear, plus it was my 1st injectable cycle  makes all the difference


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## reza85

Lol no mate the KFC chicken is fine ! But u can't tell me that the hyderanated fat and bleached wheat is good for you not even gone mention the preservatives in packaged food!


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## danj02

So are you more likely to gain more muscle on a dirty bulk then a clean one? I've heard this thrown around a lot. I guess eating a mixture will keep you motivated, rather then just eating clean. If a dirty bulk means its not as healthy as a clean bulk and you'll gain some extra fat along the way, but still get the same, if not better results when it comes to building muscle, then I'd be happy doing that.

Is a clean bulk for people who want to stay lean all year round, who will still gain muscle but at a slower rate? Or is it just lies that you can see bigger gains (muscle aswell as fat) doing a dirty bulk?


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## Fatstuff

danj02 said:


> So are you more likely to gain more muscle on a dirty bulk then a clean one? I've heard this thrown around a lot. I guess eating a mixture will keep you motivated, rather then just eating clean. If a dirty bulk means its not as healthy as a clean bulk and you'll gain some extra fat along the way, but still get the same, if not better results when it comes to building muscle, then I'd be happy doing that.
> 
> Is a clean bulk for people who want to stay lean all year round, who will still gain muscle but at a slower rate? Or is it just lies that you can see bigger gains (muscle aswell as fat) doing a dirty bulk?


Decide how much cals p/f/c u think u need and try that for a month or so and work it from there! How U get them cals and macros is up to u bit don't just blindly 'bulk' by eating sh1t. As your results will not be as good as they could be.

Whether dieting or 'bulking' I always have a bit of sh1t here and there but I try and work it into my cals/macros for the day.


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## Gynosaur

I was under the impression that:

dirty bulk + tren = lean bulk


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## Mr Self

IGotTekkers said:


> Why?!?!


ok let me tell you about it.everyone should do clean bulk because nobody wants to be a fat guy,dirty bulk means you are eating everything that is high in fat with high in simple(fast acting) carbs.simple carbs are not good for gaining btw complex carbs are very good for bulking.a lot of simple carbs make you fatter but complex carbs does not.

clean bulk doesn't make you fat,you gain quality of muscle while on it.dirty bulk make you fatter not leaner,increased cholesterol level,increased bp and lots of downside of dirty bulk.

clean bulk means no pizza,no ice creams,no cold drinks,no beer,no alcohol..etc

clean bulk = fresh fruits,vegetable,boiled eggs,chicken,fishes,yogurt,milk......etc

everyone's goal is to gain maximum muscle and minimum fat.so everyone should do clean bulk.


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## Cactus87

Fatstuff said:


> u can, life is yours to do as u please with it.


I meant eat like that and not gain a huge amount of blubber!


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## Wheyman

you need to eat proteins and carbs the best quility will always be best, and lots of crap in your food can affect the body.

Pizza doesnt turn into muscle as well as chicken does


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## Gynosaur

Wheyman said:


> you need to eat proteins and carbs the best quility will always be best, and lots of crap in your food can affect the body.
> 
> Pizza doesnt turn into muscle as well as chicken does


Really? I would've thought the cheese, especially, on a pizza would contribute highly to protein intake, especially if you make the pizza from scratch at home and cover the thing in the stuff


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## Brook877

Mr Self said:


> ok let me tell you about it.everyone should do clean bulk because nobody wants to be a fat guy,dirty bulk means you are eating everything that is high in fat with high in simple(fast acting) carbs.simple carbs are not good for gaining btw complex carbs are very good for bulking.a lot of simple carbs make you fatter but complex carbs does not.
> 
> clean bulk doesn't make you fat,you gain quality of muscle while on it.dirty bulk make you fatter not leaner,increased cholesterol level,increased bp and lots of downside of dirty bulk.
> 
> clean bulk means no pizza,no ice creams,*no cold drinks*,no beer,no alcohol..etc
> 
> clean bulk = fresh fruits,vegetable,boiled eggs,chicken,fishes,yogurt,milk......etc
> 
> *everyone's goal is to gain maximum muscle and minimum fat.so everyone should do clean bulk*.


First point.

Why the fcuk no cold drinks? I'd like to read your explanation as to why only warm drinks, is warm water is better for you than cold water..?

Secondly,

How do you know everyone has the same goal? Some of us, myself included are quite happy to not to be in single figure body fat levels, Zydrunas Savickas is I'm guessing to you, just a big fat guy? But a lot of people don't see him as a big fat guy, they see the strongest man in the world.

We don't all want to the same things,

Thirdly,

A clean diet doesn't mean you won't get fat, just like a dirty diet doesn't mean you will get fat, over eating your requirements means you'll get fat, even if your only over eating chicken and rocket.


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## Heath

I see it as the following:

lean bulk = small calorie surplus

dirty bulk = bigger calorie surplus


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## simonthepieman

Brook877 said:


> First point.
> 
> Why the fcuk no cold drinks? I'd like to read your explanation as to why only warm drinks, is warm water is better for you than cold water..?
> 
> Secondly,
> 
> How do you know everyone has the same goal? Some of us, myself included are quite happy to not to be in single figure body fat levels, Zydrunas Savickas is I'm guessing to you, just a big fat guy? But a lot of people don't see him as a big fat guy, they see the strongest man in the world.
> 
> We don't all want to the same things,
> 
> Thirdly,
> 
> A clean diet doesn't mean you won't get fat, just like a dirty diet doesn't mean you will get fat, over eating your requirements means you'll get fat, even if your only over eating chicken and rocket.


This ^^^^^^ x2


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## IGotTekkers

Mr Self said:


> ok let me tell you about it.everyone should do clean bulk because nobody wants to be a fat guy,dirty bulk means you are eating everything that is high in fat with high in simple(fast acting) carbs.simple carbs are not good for gaining btw complex carbs are very good for bulking.a lot of simple carbs make you fatter but complex carbs does not.
> 
> clean bulk doesn't make you fat,you gain quality of muscle while on it.dirty bulk make you fatter not leaner,increased cholesterol level,increased bp and lots of downside of dirty bulk.
> 
> clean bulk means no pizza,no ice creams,no cold drinks,no beer,no alcohol..etc
> 
> clean bulk = fresh fruits,vegetable,boiled eggs,chicken,fishes,yogurt,milk......etc
> 
> everyone's goal is to gain maximum muscle and minimum fat.so everyone should do clean bulk.


That is the biggest load of bull**** iv ever read, and im sorry that you actually believe this to be true.

So you are saying that if my maintainance is 4000 calories and i eat 15000 calories from fresh fruit, lean meand and brown rice that I wont get fat, and if i eat only 1000 calories of pizza and ice cream that Im gonna get fat, not lose weight. you are sorely mistaken my friend. Saturated fat doesnt make you any fatter than any other type of fat. and 100g of carbs from white rice will give the same amount of energy as 100g of carbs from brown rice. ITS THE SAME AMOUNT OF CARBS!

If i ate clean, I would never grow, its as simple as that, there is no way on earth i could get my 4500-5000 calories per day from fruit, veg and sweet potato. It just aint gonna happen. so no, not everybody should do a clean bulk.


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## IGotTekkers

reza85 said:


> Lol no mate the KFC chicken is fine ! But u can't tell me that the hyderanated fat and bleached wheat is good for you not even gone mention the preservatives in packaged food!


but whats good for you and not good for you health wise has nothing to do with body composition


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## simonthepieman

This thread made me hungry do I got a quarter pounder with cheese mid morning.

Which is 30p 40c 30f and has GI index of 18.

Which takes my macros to the day

100 60 40 and about 1000 calories.

That 2k calories to go to keep my lean bulk going and half my macros hit by 11am.

#winning


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## Heath

Mr Self said:


> ok let me tell you about it.everyone should do clean bulk because nobody wants to be a fat guy,dirty bulk means you are eating everything that is high in fat with high in simple(fast acting) carbs.simple carbs are not good for gaining btw complex carbs are very good for bulking.a lot of simple carbs make you fatter but complex carbs does not.
> 
> clean bulk doesn't make you fat,you gain quality of muscle while on it.dirty bulk make you fatter not leaner,increased cholesterol level,increased bp and lots of downside of dirty bulk.
> 
> clean bulk means no pizza,no ice creams,no cold drinks,no beer,no alcohol..etc
> 
> clean bulk = fresh fruits,vegetable,boiled eggs,chicken,fishes,yogurt,milk......etc
> 
> everyone's goal is to gain maximum muscle and minimum fat.so everyone should do clean bulk.


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## Fatstuff

Mr Self said:


> ok let me tell you about it.everyone should do clean bulk because nobody wants to be a fat guy,dirty bulk means you are eating everything that is high in fat with high in simple(fast acting) carbs.simple carbs are not good for gaining btw complex carbs are very good for bulking.a lot of simple carbs make you fatter but complex carbs does not.
> 
> clean bulk doesn't make you fat,you gain quality of muscle while on it.dirty bulk make you fatter not leaner,increased cholesterol level,increased bp and lots of downside of dirty bulk.
> 
> clean bulk means no pizza,no ice creams,no cold drinks,no beer,no alcohol..etc
> 
> clean bulk = fresh fruits,vegetable,boiled eggs,chicken,fishes,yogurt,milk......etc
> 
> everyone's goal is to gain maximum muscle and minimum fat.so everyone should do clean bulk.


Everyone should do this

Everyone want this

What happens is this

Everyone's should do this

Blah blah blah

Stating fact when really u dont know anything, I would wager that I know more than u on the subject but I will humbly use terms like 'in my opinion'

Or 'I believe' as because all I've done is read about it and changed my own physique through reading and trial and error so I don't know for a FACT that doing 'A' is better than 'B' etc but I do know the difference between fact and opinion and I think you ought to look them 2 words up before u post a load of drivel again

Just because u say something with such conviction doesn't make it correct


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## Mr Self

IGotTekkers said:


> That is the biggest load of bull**** iv ever read, and im sorry that you actually believe this to be true.
> 
> So you are saying that if my maintainance is 4000 calories and i eat 15000 calories from fresh fruit, lean meand and brown rice that I wont get fat, and if i eat only 1000 calories of pizza and ice cream that Im gonna get fat, not lose weight. you are sorely mistaken my friend. Saturated fat doesnt make you any fatter than any other type of fat. and 100g of carbs from white rice will give the same amount of energy as 100g of carbs from brown rice. ITS THE SAME AMOUNT OF CARBS!
> 
> If i ate clean, I would never grow, its as simple as that, there is no way on earth i could get my 4500-5000 calories per day from fruit, veg and sweet potato. It just aint gonna happen. so no, not everybody should do a clean bulk.


yes 100g of carbs from white rice will give the same amount of energy as 100g of carbs from brown rice,yes its the same amount.

let me explain it.There are two main types of carbohydrates:Complex carbohydrates and Simple carbohydrates.a lot of Simple carbohydrates increase blood sugar level so body produce insulin.insulin convert that food into fat for storage.when insulin level is high body store fat.now come to white rice which has more simple carbs than brown rice.calorie is same,energy is same everything same except simple carbs and complex carbs ratio.

we are talking about the same calorie for clean bulk and dirty bulk not 4000 to 15000

i think you don't get it.we talking about same calorie used in clean bulk and dirty bulk.

if you are interested in dirty bulking go ahead do what you wanna do.why did you post a thread?wtf?


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## SkinnyJ

Mr Self said:


> yes 100g of carbs from white rice will give the same amount of energy as 100g of carbs from brown rice,yes its the same amount.
> 
> let me explain it.There are two main types of carbohydrates:Complex carbohydrates and Simple carbohydrates.a lot of Simple carbohydrates increase blood sugar level so body produce insulin.insulin convert that food into fat for storage.when insulin level is high body store fat.now come to white rice which has more simple carbs than brown rice.calorie is same,energy is same everything same except simple carbs and complex carbs ratio.
> 
> we are talking about the same calorie for clean bulk and dirty bulk not 4000 to 15000
> 
> i think you don't get it.we talking about same calorie used in clean bulk and dirty bulk.
> 
> if you are interested in dirty bulking you do you post a thread?wtf?go ahead do what you wanna do.


I would stop talking.


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## Mr Self

Fatstuff said:


> Everyone should do this
> 
> Everyone want this
> 
> What happens is this
> 
> Everyone's should do this
> 
> Blah blah blah
> 
> Stating fact when really u dont know anything, I would wager that I know more than u on the subject but I will humbly use terms like 'in my opinion'
> 
> Or 'I believe' as because all I've done is read about it and changed my own physique through reading and trial and error so I don't know for a FACT that doing 'A' is better than 'B' etc but I do know the difference between fact and opinion and I think you ought to look them 2 words up before u post a load of drivel again
> 
> Just because u say something with such conviction doesn't make it correct


hey that was my opinion.they took it wrong and i got your point.


----------



## Mr Self

Brook877 said:


> First point.
> 
> Why the fcuk no cold drinks? I'd like to read your explanation as to why only warm drinks, is warm water is better for you than cold water..?
> 
> Secondly,
> 
> How do you know everyone has the same goal? Some of us, myself included are quite happy to not to be in single figure body fat levels, Zydrunas Savickas is I'm guessing to you, just a big fat guy? But a lot of people don't see him as a big fat guy, they see the strongest man in the world.
> 
> We don't all want to the same things,
> 
> Thirdly,
> 
> A clean diet doesn't mean you won't get fat, just like a dirty diet doesn't mean you will get fat, over eating your requirements means you'll get fat, even if your only over eating chicken and rocket.


1.cold drink is high on sugar so avoiding it would be great thing if you wanna drink it use diet cold drink.warm water is better than cold because when ingest warm water it gives the heat that our system need for ease digestion.if we drink cold water digestion is not

good.cold water takes heat from digestive track so body doesnot have heat for proper digestion.

2.if your goal is to be fat guy so be it.i don't have problem with that.general goal for bbing is to have maximum muscle with no fat.

3.do your maths.


----------



## Mr Self

MutantX said:


>


why-o-why this jackwagon point at me?i think he loves to be a idiot jackwagon just he is.


----------



## Fatstuff

Mr Self said:


> yes 100g of carbs from white rice will give the same amount of energy as 100g of carbs from brown rice,yes its the same amount.
> 
> let me explain it.There are two main types of carbohydrates:Complex carbohydrates and Simple carbohydrates.a lot of Simple carbohydrates increase blood sugar level so body produce insulin.insulin convert that food into fat for storage.when insulin level is high body store fat.now come to white rice which has more simple carbs than brown rice.calorie is same,energy is same everything same except simple carbs and complex carbs ratio.
> 
> we are talking about the same calorie for clean bulk and dirty bulk not 4000 to 15000
> 
> i think you don't get it.we talking about same calorie used in clean bulk and dirty bulk.
> 
> if you are interested in dirty bulking go ahead do what you wanna do.why did you post a thread?wtf?


Thr GI difference between white and brown rice is negligible particularly as u would (should) be eating it with protein and/or fat!!

Insulin doesn't convert food into fat for starters.


----------



## Fatstuff

Mr Self said:


> 1.cold drink is high on sugar so avoiding it would be great thing if you wanna drink it use diet cold drink.warm water is better than cold because when ingest warm water it gives the heat that our system need for ease digestion.if we drink cold water digestion is not
> 
> good.cold water takes heat from digestive track so body doesnot have heat for proper digestion.
> 
> 2.if your goal is to be fat guy so be it.i don't have problem with that.general goal for bbing is to have maximum muscle with no fat.
> 
> 3.do your maths.


Cold drink is high in sugar?? Every drink below a certain temperature?

It doesn't matter about the heat of the fluid your drinking, in fact the colder it is the more calories you would burn, but as said its negligible and matters not one iota to most.


----------



## Dux

@Mr Self, where are you from?


----------



## Brook877

Mr Self said:


> 1.cold drink is high on sugar so avoiding it would be great thing if you wanna drink it use diet cold drink.warm water is better than cold because when ingest warm water it gives the heat that our system need for ease digestion.if we drink cold water digestion is not
> 
> good.cold water takes heat from digestive track so body doesnot have heat for proper digestion.
> 
> 2.if your goal is to be fat guy so be it.i don't have problem with that.general goal for bbing is to have maximum muscle with no fat.
> 
> 3.do your maths.


Cold drink is high on sugar? Are you getting temp and sugar levels of drinks mixed up?

I assure you there very different things..

Not every one wants to be a bodybuilder, there are strongmen, cardio bunnys and guys who only live for abs on here, to say every one should only "lean bulk" is small minded to think every body wants the same thing and body's work the same way, some very high level bodybuilders put on a lot of fat when adding weight, a "lean bulk" clearly does not work for all.

Doing maths is excatly my point, over eating and under eating regardless of how clean it may be are the point people are trying to get across to you..


----------



## Brook877

Mr Self said:


> so everyone should do clean bulk.




Just saying..


----------



## simonthepieman

Brook877 said:


> View attachment 126831
> 
> 
> Just saying..


Blonde hair makes you lean?


----------



## Dux

I'd say he was a troll, but I actually think he's just a confused young man who has read things and they've got lost in translation.

Which is fair enough, but arguing those points when they're clearly nonsense is another matter.


----------



## Brook877

simonthepieman said:


> Blonde hair makes you lean?


Or being lean makes you blonde perhaps? :confused1:


----------



## simonthepieman

Brook877 said:


> Or being lean makes you blonde perhaps? :confused1:


It's baffled scientists for years


----------



## L11

My opinion is

Clean bulk - Having a controlled surplus

Dirty bulk - Having an "excessive" surplus

Generally those doing a "clean" bulk wont be having fast food and cakes, purely because they're calorie dense. Given your average person's TDEE, having two KFC's a day would take them way over maintenance. Yes you could do a clean bulk eating KFC, but you wouldn't be eating much more than that KFC.

Generally those doing a "dirty" bulk, will be having fast food and cakes, purely because they're calorie dense. Most people would struggle to get 5000 calories in eating sweet potato and chicken.

People saying they've bulked on KFC and maintained body fat have managed this because it's all relative to their size (i.e they're bigger and or fatter) if someone at 240lb's with 15% body fat (36lbs of fat) put on another 7lbs of fat, that would only put them to ~18% body fat, and given the existing amount of fat it wouldn't be that noticeable (it's only 20% more fat)

I'd guess I'm around 165lbs with 10% body fat (16lbs of fat). If I put on another 7lbs of fat that would put me to ~14% body fat. It would be massively noticeable (it's a massive 40% more fat)

Personally I'd say a "dirty" bulk isn't a great idea for a natty trainer, you'd be more susceptible to fat gain (since you'd be gaining less muscle from your surplus), and when you come to cut, you'd be losing more muscle..


----------



## SSJay

Mr Self said:


> hey that was my opinion.they took it wrong and i got your point.


It seems you have become the newest member to join the red lightsaber crew, and all in the space of a day! Good job! :thumb:


----------



## Mr Self

Dux said:


> I'd say he was a troll, but I actually think he's just a confused young man who has read things and they've got lost in translation.
> 
> Which is fair enough, but arguing those points when they're clearly nonsense is another matter.


maybe i got lost in translation


----------



## simonthepieman

L11 said:


> My opinion is
> 
> Clean bulk - Having a controlled surplus
> 
> Dirty bulk - Having an "excessive" surplus
> 
> Generally those doing a "clean" bulk wont be having fast food and cakes, purely because they're calorie dense. Given your average person's TDEE, having two KFC's a day would take them way over maintenance. Yes you could do a clean bulk eating KFC, but you wouldn't be eating much more than that KFC.
> 
> Generally those doing a "dirty" bulk, will be having fast food and cakes, purely because they're calorie dense. Most people would struggle to get 5000 calories in eating sweet potato and chicken.
> 
> People saying they've bulked on KFC and maintained body fat have managed this because it's all relative to their size (i.e they're bigger and or fatter) if someone at 240lb's with 15% body fat (36lbs of fat) put on another 7lbs of fat, that would only put them to ~18% body fat, and given the existing amount of fat it wouldn't be that noticeable (it's only 20% more fat)
> 
> I'd guess I'm around 165lbs with 10% body fat (16lbs of fat). If I put on another 7lbs of fat that would put me to ~14% body fat. It would be massively noticeable (it's a massive 40% more fat)
> 
> Personally I'd say a "dirty" bulk isn't a great idea for a natty trainer, you'd be more susceptible to fat gain (since you'd be gaining less muscle from your surplus), and when you come to cut, you'd be losing more muscle..


This x2

I am eating a McDonald double sausage and egg mc muffin as I type too. But i have just trained legs


----------



## Brook877

Mr Self said:


> maybe i got lost in translation


Genuine question-

Your location isn't filled in, is English not your first language?


----------



## IGotTekkers

Dux said:


> @Mr Self, where are you from?


The deep dark depths of broscienceville?


----------



## Guest

If you dont mind that fat, eat away, but I would rather eat something abit more nutrient than a mcdonalds..

I Would however eat the macdonalds, if my nutrient totals were present, on that day, just to bang on the calories.

No problem there..


----------



## simonthepieman

tkd67 said:


> If you dont mind that fat, eat away, but I would rather eat something abit more nutrient than a mcdonalds..
> 
> I Would however eat the macdonalds, if my nutrient totals were present, on that day, just to bang on the calories.
> 
> No problem there..


Theres nothing wrong with fat. Fat doesn't make you fat.

I have my multivitamin in the morning and have more nutritious food later in the day when I have time to prepare it or the nice shops open

Ie



Maccas is nice easy fix after squatting washed down with a big protein shake and some fruit

I avoid the hash brown and drinks though


----------



## danj02

So for someone just starting out at 152 pounds at 5 foot 11, I'd be better of clean bulking because the body fat I'd gain would be a lot more noticeable else? Is it nonsense that you can gain more muscle doing a dirty bulk instead of a clean bulk, over the same period of time?


----------



## Heath

danj02 said:


> So for someone just starting out at 152 pounds at 5 foot 11, I'd be better of clean bulking because the body fat I'd gain would be a lot more noticeable else? Is it nonsense that you can gain more muscle doing a dirty bulk instead of a clean bulk, over the same period of time?


If natty there is a limit to how much muscle you can build so any calories after that would be stored as fat


----------



## Dux

I'd say the main difference between the two would be the amount of nutrients you're getting from junk food compared to whole foods.

Junk foods are calorie dense, so would limit the amount of other foods you could eat throughout the day.

If you were fairly small, so could bulk on about 3000 calories, a large meal from Burger King or wherever is going to take up a huge portion of your calories, so you'd have to eat exceptionally clean for the rest of the day to hit your macros, and could possibly take you over your required carbs or fats from just 1 meal.

An XL Bacon Double Cheeseburger meal large with coke has a breakdown of :71/201/86 P/C/F and 1877 calories.

You're not gonna be able to eat too many of those before your macros are screwed, some people wouldn't be able to eat anything other than protein for the rest of the day to hit their macros.


----------



## simonthepieman

Dux said:


> I'd say the main difference between the two would be the amount of nutrients you're getting from junk food compared to whole foods.
> 
> Junk foods are calorie dense, so would limit the amount of other foods you could eat throughout the day.
> 
> If you were fairly small, so could bulk on about 3000 calories, a large meal from Burger King or wherever is going to take up a huge portion of your calories, so you'd have to eat exceptionally clean for the rest of the day to hit your macros, and could possibly take you over your required carbs or fats from just 1 meal.
> 
> An XL Bacon Double Cheeseburger meal large with coke has a breakdown of :71/201/86 P/C/F and 1877 calories.
> 
> You're not gonna be able to eat too many of those before your macros are screwed, some people wouldn't be able to eat anything other than protein for the rest of the day to hit their macros.


a quarter pounder with cheese is just over 500 calories and 30p 40c 30f. As I said before. If you stay away from the drinks, chips and sides it's a really filling low GI meal with great macros. Little in the way of nutrients. But my diet as a whole is very nutrient rich. Having a health food loving fiance helps and London has tons of choice for lunch places that do 'healthy' meal boxes.

From the McDonalds, protein shake and fruit I hit 100P, 80C, 40F and will keep me mega full until lunch with 2000 calories left to get my veggies and stuff in. It also means I get an extra 30 an hour in bed

The beef is actually a decent grade in macdonalds against what the popular public says


----------



## Dux

simonthepieman said:


> a quarter pounder with cheese is just over 500 calories and 30p 40c 30f. As I said before. If you stay away from the drinks, chips and sides it's a really filling low GI meal with great macros. Little in the way of nutrients. But my diet as a whole is very nutrient rich. Having a health food loving fiance helps and London has tons of choice for lunch places that do 'healthy' meal boxes.
> 
> From the McDonalds, protein shake and fruit I hit 100P, 80C, 40F and will keep me mega full until lunch with 2000 calories left to get my veggies and stuff in. It also means I get an extra 30 an hour in bed
> 
> The beef is actually a decent grade in macdonalds against what the popular public says


I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, and for some people it does work, the bottom line whichever way you look at it is if you eat too much, clean or dirty, you'll put on fat.

I've tried it and it didn't work, and the entire cycle (test & deca) was a waste of time and money.


----------



## simonthepieman

MutantX said:


> If natty there is a limit to how much muscle you can build so any calories after that would be stored as fat


yes, but's highly indiviual and dependent on a multitude of factors that makes it impossible to give an accurate estimate. Tracking everything and trial and error is really the only prescription.

The closer you reach your natty limit the greater the fat loss you normally have to accept to build more muscle.

There are always the sickening few that can keep adding muscle natty without having to worry about it


----------



## simonthepieman

Dux said:


> I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, and for some people it does work, the bottom line whichever way you look at it is if you eat too much, clean or dirty, you'll put on fat.
> 
> I've tried it and it didn't work, and the entire cycle (test & deca) was a waste of time and money.


was you tracking everything you ate and working to proven macro goals based on experience?


----------



## Dux

simonthepieman said:


> was you tracking everything you ate and working to proven macro goals based on experience?


Yes and no, I would try and hit a specific amount of calories and protein, using the thinking "even if I get fatter from over eating, I'll still be building muscle too" but I hardly main any gains whatsoever from it. I got stronger, but sustainable size gains were minimal


----------



## danj02

simonthepieman said:


> From the McDonalds, protein shake and fruit I hit *100P*, 80C, 40F and will keep me mega full until lunch with 2000 calories left to get my veggies and stuff in.


Wouldn't 100g of protein in one meal be to much? I thought your body could only use a certain amount of protein before the rest was wasted.


----------



## DaveW3000

danj02 said:


> Wouldn't 100g of protein in one meal be to much? I thought your body could only use a certain amount of protein before the rest was wasted.


Broscience my friend!


----------



## simonthepieman

danj02 said:


> Wouldn't 100g of protein in one meal be to much? I thought your body could only use a certain amount of protein before the rest was wasted.


all of that wasn;t in one sitting, but even if it was it wouldn't make much different

thats complete nonsense that is common in this world sadly.


----------



## AndyTee

Forget about dirty bulk mate.


----------



## Armz

simonthepieman said:


> a quarter pounder with cheese is just over 500 calories and 30p 40c 30f. As I said before. If you stay away from the drinks, chips and sides it's a really filling low GI meal with great macros. Little in the way of nutrients. But my diet as a whole is very nutrient rich. Having a health food loving fiance helps and London has tons of choice for lunch places that do 'healthy' meal boxes.
> 
> From the McDonalds, protein shake and fruit I hit 100P, 80C, 40F and will keep me mega full until lunch with 2000 calories left to get my veggies and stuff in. It also means I get an extra 30 an hour in bed
> 
> The beef is actually a decent grade in macdonalds against what the popular public says


I agree. All food is nutritious, you just have to have everything in moderation. I'm on a cut eating "clean" but tonight I'll have 2 big mac's and a cheese burger. Losing a steady 1lb a week. I would put this in the "dirty" category but mainly because of the high fat and calories.


----------



## Dux

How much more trans fats will you be consuming on a dirty bulk than clean?

Long term surely they must affect body composition?


----------



## simonthepieman

Dux said:


> How much more trans fats will you be consuming on a dirty bulk than clean?
> 
> Long term surely they must affect body composition?


That wouldn't directly affect your body composition.

Your cardiovascular system, that's another question


----------



## Dux

simonthepieman said:


> That wouldn't directly affect your body composition.


Hmmm, I'm not so sure, have you not seen the shape of the average obese American nowadays? :lol:


----------



## simonthepieman

Dux said:


> Hmmm, I'm not so sure, have you not seen the shape of the average obese American nowadays? :lol:


I spend 3 months over there at the beginning of the year and began to look like one. I put on nearly a KG a week. Stupid hotel living with buffett breakfast and company expenses eating


----------



## Heath

simonthepieman said:


> a quarter pounder with cheese is just over 500 calories and 30p 40c 30f. As I said before. If you stay away from the drinks, chips and sides it's a really filling low GI meal with great macros.


Really filling?


----------



## Ant88

For me a dirty bulk vs a clean bulk is just the amount of surplus you have on them... Food is food no matter what end of the day, don't matter if its chicken and rice or a big juicy burger topped with lettuce and tomatoes(Starving right now 1st day of cut ftl). For a clean I'd say 300 surplus and dirty I'd say 500+ I guess? Don't know why people complain about the types of food that others eat. :/


----------



## simonthepieman

MutantX said:


> Really filling?


For 1/6 of my daily calories. It gets good mileage


----------



## Ant88

simonthepieman said:


> For 1/6 of my daily calories. It gets good mileage


Can have like 3 Big Mcs, a large coke and large fries and still be starving, don't know how 1 tiny burger can fill you up haha. Mind this is before I started to work out.


----------



## simonthepieman

Ant88 said:


> Can have like 3 Big Mcs, a large coke and large fries and still be starving, don't know how 1 tiny burger can fill you up haha. Mind this is before I started to work out.


It's the chips and drink that make you hungry. For a main meal it's small for a post gym filler to lunch. Great


----------



## Heath

Who guys in maccies and doesn't have a mcflurry tho?


----------



## Ant88

simonthepieman said:


> It's the chips and drink that make you hungry. For a main meal it's small for a post gym filler to lunch. Great


True, they do stick an ass load of salt on there damn chips. Coke is usually flat as fk anyways here LOL. Stopped going Mc Ds long ago


----------



## Fatstuff

MutantX said:


> Who guys in maccies and doesn't have a mcflurry tho?


havent had a mcflurry for probably 3 years lol, thats not me being self righteous as i have had plenty of tubs of B&J's lol, its just id choose not to waste my designated sh1t food blocks on one lol


----------



## Fatstuff

Ant88 said:


> True, they do stick an ass load of salt on there damn chips. Coke is usually flat as fk anyways here LOL. Stopped going Mc Ds long ago


That salt when hungover is like crack!! nom nom


----------



## Ant88

Fatstuff said:


> That salt when hungover is like crack!! nom nom


Lol I bet. Been so long since I had Mc Ds. We have ACTUAL Turkish kebabs over here nom nom, none of that crap you get in UK.  Great for hangover too.


----------



## simonthepieman

I've been on a cut for ages so now I'm big boy calories again I'm finding I can stretch them further.

There's a nice Mediterranean restaurant near me that does real kebabs. Actually really healthy and the salad they serve is ace.


----------



## Poke

IGotTekkers said:


> Your telling me that kfc chicken has no nutritional value simply because it's been deep fried? What about the potato? Or the shredded carrot and cabbage mixed with egg mayo.. clean as a whistle in my book :lol:
> 
> I need 4500-5000 calories per day to grow, how the fook could I get that from steamed veg and boiled chicken haha. I eat microwave burgers breakfast, curry and crisps for tea and I look better than most people that I know :thumb:
> 
> I'll also add that on my cut last year I went from 19% .bf to around 10-12% with crisps as my main carb source. Even loui marco diets with ice cream and have you seen how shredded he is atm? Obviously good whole foods will keep you healthy, but you can enjoy food and look good at the same time


He never even said KFC, he said processed refined crap with no real macro-nutrient benefit...

Its easy to to eat healthy and 5000+ cals, meats, grains for carbs, and fish oil/olive oil/peanut butter ect.

You dont have to eat sweaty burgers and chips and gravy to eat over 5000 cals easily lol, thats just your choice pal.


----------



## MrM

For me clean vs dirrty is more about the health benefits / problems.

I'd suspect that a dirrty bulk would be lower in fiber, too much sugar, "bad" processed fats and prob short in minerals and vits. Long term it prob wouldn't be good for heart & blood pressure ...... In my opinion anyway.

I tend to be somewhere in between, mostly healthy meals but at least once a week ill fall apart and binge on chocolate and buns with maybe a burger thrown in.


----------



## simonthepieman

MrM said:


> For me clean vs dirrty is more about the health benefits / problems.
> 
> I'd suspect that a dirrty bulk would be lower in fiber, too much sugar, "bad" processed fats and prob short in minerals and vits. Long term it prob wouldn't be good for heart & blood pressure ...... In my opinion anyway.
> 
> I tend to be somewhere in between, mostly healthy meals but at least once a week ill fall apart and binge on chocolate and buns with maybe a burger thrown in.


In other words. Human


----------



## IGotTekkers

Poke said:


> He never even said KFC, he said processed refined crap with no real macro-nutrient benefit...
> 
> Its easy to to eat healthy and 5000+ cals, meats, grains for carbs, and fish oil/olive oil/peanut butter ect.
> 
> You dont have to eat sweaty burgers and chips and gravy to eat over 5000 cals easily lol, thats just your choice pal.


No. It's not.


----------



## liam0810

IGotTekkers said:


> No. It's not.


5000 isn't too hard bud. Try this diet

Meal 1

150g powdered oats

2 scoops whey

30ml EVOO

Cals 800ish

Meal 2

6 whole eggs

2 pieces burgen bread

Cals 800

Meal 3

250g chicken

60g uncooked weight rice

30ml EVOO

Cals 600

Meal 4 snack

80g blue diamond almonds

2 scoops whey

Cals 600

PWO

Pint of innocent smoothie

3 scoops whey

50g oats

Cals 600

Meal 6

250g steak/mince/chicken

300g sweet potato

Salad/veg

30ml EVOO

Cals 900

Bed

50g pb

4 rice cakes

Cals 300

Think that's easy abd very tough cals guide but you get the gist


----------



## DaveW3000

It depends how many meals you prefer to eat a day, the meal plan above works over seven meals but if circumstances etc mean you can only fit say four meals a day it would be harder to fit in that volume of 'healthy' foods.


----------



## Little_Jay

liam0810 said:


> 5000 isn't too hard bud. Try this diet
> 
> Meal 1
> 
> 150g powdered oats
> 
> 2 scoops whey
> 
> 30ml EVOO
> 
> Cals 800ish
> 
> Meal 2
> 
> 6 whole eggs
> 
> 2 pieces burgen bread
> 
> Cals 800
> 
> Meal 3
> 
> 250g chicken
> 
> 60g uncooked weight rice
> 
> 30ml EVOO
> 
> Cals 600
> 
> Meal 4 snack
> 
> 80g blue diamond almonds
> 
> 2 scoops whey
> 
> Cals 600
> 
> PWO
> 
> Pint of innocent smoothie
> 
> 3 scoops whey
> 
> 50g oats
> 
> Cals 600
> 
> Meal 6
> 
> 250g steak/mince/chicken
> 
> 300g sweet potato
> 
> Salad/veg
> 
> 30ml EVOO
> 
> Cals 900
> 
> Bed
> 
> 50g pb
> 
> 4 rice cakes
> 
> Cals 300
> 
> Think that's easy abd very tough cals guide but you get the gist


**** powederd oats tho! i love eating oats personally!

but ye i get what your saying if ppl are stuck for time/small appetite


----------



## liam0810

DaveW3000 said:


> It depends how many meals you prefer to eat a day, the meal plan above works over seven meals but if circumstances etc mean you can only fit say four meals a day it would be harder to fit in that volume of 'healthy' foods.


In my opinion you get out what you put in. You eat sh1t you'll look sh1t.

If only 4 meals can be fitted then substitute a few of those for shakes which can be kept in a bag or in your car and you can neck when needed. Everyone can spare 5 mins here and there to neck a shake. If you really want to eat clean and get big you can. If you want to make excuses so that you can eat dirty then that's your choice


----------



## liam0810

Little_Jay said:


> **** powederd oats tho! i love eating oats personally!
> 
> but ye i get what your saying if ppl are stuck for time/small appetite


I love oats as well mate. I have 100-150g with 3 teaspoons of cadburys highlights hot choc in water. Amazing!


----------



## Little_Jay

liam0810 said:


> I love oats as well mate. I have 100-150g with 3 teaspoons of cadburys highlights hot choc in water. Amazing!


150g oats/maxiraw mint choc whey/few coffee beans

get on it !


----------



## DaveW3000

liam0810 said:


> In my opinion you get out what you put in. You eat sh1t you'll look sh1t.
> 
> If only 4 meals can be fitted then substitute a few of those for shakes which can be kept in a bag or in your car and you can neck when needed. Everyone can spare 5 mins here and there to neck a shake. If you really want to eat clean and get big you can. If you want to make excuses so that you can eat dirty then that's your choice


I agree with you that if you want it enough you'll make it happen (no excuses), But i suppose it depends what you think is dirty food. Assuming all macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients were achieved for the day, whats your opinion on finishing off your days cals with maybe a pizza?


----------



## liam0810

DaveW3000 said:


> I agree with you that if you want it enough you'll make it happen (no excuses), But i suppose it depends what you think is dirty food. Assuming all macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients were achieved for the day, whats your opinion on finishing off your days cals with maybe a pizza?


See I don't believe in this IIFYM stuff as there's too many variables when it comes to things like carbs and how they affect your insulin levels. Also look at the pros, they're genetically gifted yet they don't eat pizzas and stuff all the time, they still eat clean and look amazing. So if they don't do it with their genetics then why do we think we should be able to and get away with it.

I'm not saying having junk now and then is bad as its not, but not everyday. You might hit your macros with having maccies everyday day but if you remember that documentary where that bloke did it, he was told after 3 weeks to stop due to how bad it was.


----------



## Poke

IGotTekkers said:


> No. It's not.


Yes it is, you obviously haven't even bothered to try it lol.

Just for one example You can make 1 small tortilla wrap have 700 cals with chicken/beef, mayo, cheese. Same cAls as a greasy burger and just as easy to eat, but you get more protein and healthy fats instead of a tonne of saturated fat.


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## IGotTekkers

Poke said:


> Yes it is, you obviously haven't even bothered to try it lol.
> 
> Just for one example You can make 1 small tortilla wrap have 700 cals with chicken/beef, mayo, cheese. Same cAls as a greasy burger and just as easy to eat, but you get more protein and healthy fats instead of a tonne of saturated fat.


Havnt I? Oh ok. When you run your own business, have a baby and do school runs etc.. making and eating 7 or 8 700 calorie meals isn't possible. And I can't eat like that anyway. I eat a few 1000-2000 calorie meals. That's how I like it, that's how it's staying.


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## SkinnyJ

liam0810 said:


> See I don't believe in this IIFYM stuff as there's too many variables when it comes to things like carbs and how they affect your insulin levels. Also look at the pros, they're genetically gifted yet they don't eat pizzas and stuff all the time, they still eat clean and look amazing. So if they don't do it with their genetics then why do we think we should be able to and get away with it.
> 
> I'm not saying having junk now and then is bad as its not, but not everyday. You might hit your macros with having maccies everyday day but if you remember that documentary where that bloke did it, he was told after 3 weeks to stop due to how bad it was.


But if it fit your macros for the day, how would it make a difference? How does your body know youre eating a pizza, over say a bowl of chicken and rice? If your macros work out the same then how can it be any different?

Not being a **** btw mate, genuinely interested.


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## DaveW3000

liam0810 said:


> See I don't believe in this IIFYM stuff as there's too many variables when it comes to things like carbs and how they affect your insulin levels. Also look at the pros, they're genetically gifted yet they don't eat pizzas and stuff all the time, they still eat clean and look amazing. So if they don't do it with their genetics then why do we think we should be able to and get away with it.
> 
> I'm not saying having junk now and then is bad as its not, but not everyday. You might hit your macros with having maccies everyday day but if you remember that documentary where that bloke did it, he was told after 3 weeks to stop due to how bad it was.


Fair enough i understand alot of people don't agree with IIFYM, i do think tho that people tend to think its just an excuse to eat crap when generally its made up of a mixture of all types of foods.

Regarding your point about insulin what do you think about this? 




As for pros i haven't got any names handy but along my travels of the internet i have come across a plenty of experienced bodybuilders that do take a flexible approach to nutrition.

Health wise we do now know that aside from the genetically predisposed, sedentary or obese population that CVD, CHD, diabetes etc aren't actually attributed to the foods we each outside of there caloric value (surplus to cause obesity) In trained individuals there's little to suggest negative health effects from so called 'dirty' foods.


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## Heath

liam0810 said:


> but if you remember that documentary where that bloke did it, he was told after 3 weeks to stop due to how bad it was.


The maccies documentary was more down to the excessive calorie intake.

There was another one on YouTube with a BB'er who did it within his calorie goal and had no health deterioration.

Not that I don't agree with your other points


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## Sku11fk

I wondered about macros and wether your body can really tell the difference between food sources.


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## liam0810

SkinnyJ said:


> But if it fit your macros for the day, how would it make a difference? How does your body know youre eating a pizza, over say a bowl of chicken and rice? If your macros work out the same then how can it be any different?
> 
> Not being a **** btw mate, genuinely interested.


You need to take into account the GI of your carbs, the fats if they're saturated, unsaturated and quality of the protein. Not to mention the sodium and preservatives that are used. Just because it might both have 40g pro, 40g Carb, 20g fat they're not equal


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## liam0810

Sku11fk said:


> I wondered about macros and wether your body can really tell the difference between food sources.


If you have 100g carbs from sweets and 100g from oats your body can tell, they are not equal due to how they both affect your insulin levels


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## Sku11fk

liam0810 said:


> If you have 100g carbs from sweets and 100g from oats your body can tell, they are not equal due to how they both affect your insulin levels


That makes sense and that the sweets have littlenutritional value and finer. But I did here somewhere that insulin spikes are irrelevant compared to daily calorie intake.

Though from personal experience I did try iifym and I felt down on energy so go figure.


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## Little_Jay

liam0810 said:


> If you have 100g carbs from sweets and 100g from oats your body can tell, they are not equal due to how they both affect your insulin levels


i think your boss did a log on here and used carbs from any source aslong as hittig macros and seen no real world difference @dutch_scott is this true? am sure i remmeber it years back


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## Fatstuff

Liam you are creating the exact same wrong argument that a million other ppl use, in fact it's boring now so I'll say it only once - iifym is only to loosen the shackles of a typical bb diet, it's NOT to have junk every day. You still need to take into account your fibre and efa's etc. it's not to have maccys for every meal and to top up with shakes. It's just not!! Simple as that!! Its been said a million times. In fact everyone eats iifym lol, there is no other way to design a diet but to fit it to your macros lol. It's just to stop ppl from thinking they need steamed chicken and brocolli a million times a day (I exaggerated to match ur exaggerative argument  )


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## Dux

I'd hazard a guess and say that taking the guys with the top physiques on here as a point in reference, 99% of the guys with the "best" will eat what would be considered a clean diet, day in, day out, with a very very occasional cheat meal.


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## cas

F#ck sake, just eat you big girls


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## liam0810

Sku11fk said:


> That makes sense and that the sweets have littlenutritional value and finer. But I did here somewhere that insulin spikes are irrelevant compared to daily calorie intake.
> 
> Though from personal experience I did try iifym and I felt down on energy so go figure.


I think insulin spikes should be taken into account as come ppl are more sensitive than others and carbs affect some in different ways. That's why some can get lean eating shed loads of them a day and some don't and have to do low carb/keto to get lean.

If Scott did that then that's but worked for him, but in my opinion and from my own experience the GI of a carb and timing can affect you.


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## liam0810

Fatstuff said:


> Liam you are creating the exact same wrong argument that a million other ppl use, in fact it's boring now so I'll say it only once - iifym is only to loosen the shackles of a typical bb diet, it's NOT to have junk every day. You still need to take into account your fibre and efa's etc. it's not to have maccys for every meal and to top up with shakes. It's just not!! Simple as that!! Its been said a million times. In fact everyone eats iifym lol, there is no other way to design a diet but to fit it to your macros lol. It's just to stop ppl from thinking they need steamed chicken and brocolli a million times a day (I exaggerated to match ur exaggerative argument  )


As I said mate a cheat here and there is ok but some see this IIFYM as a reason to eat cr4p every day and that won't work.


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## Little_Jay

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/100096-carbs-cheat-food-only-4-weeks-experiment.html


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## yannyboy

When you're bulking, getting enough calories is obviously the most important thing

Good calories are always going to be better than bad calories but bad calories are better than no calories


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## Fatstuff

liam0810 said:


> As I said mate a cheat here and there is ok but some see this IIFYM as a reason to eat cr4p every day and that won't work.


Of course mate, but that's an individual thing. Same as the people who stick a 1500cal surplus onto their diet as a 'refeed' or 'cheat day'!

That's not to say that a refeed doesn't work, it's just that an individual using it as an excuse to eat sh1t for a day!

I've just had 2 bacon cheeseburgers for breakfast no buns lol.



This means I can have a slightly lower protein meal later in the day (mackerel on burgen toast) but by the end of the day I will of hit my macros, plus my fibre and my fatty acids. Granted I'm no competitive BBer but I'm progressing and it's hardly a chore, just means I have to think a little harder about what I eat.


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## liam0810

yannyboy said:


> When you're bulking, getting enough calories is obviously the most important thing
> 
> Good calories are always going to be better than bad calories but bad calories are better than no calories


100% agree with this. My point is that if people say a dirty bulk is fine then there's members on here who will take it as gospel and just eat what they want, then 6 months down the line they'll be dating they're fat and need to cut. Clean is what I believe in with the occasional cheat


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## liam0810

Fatstuff said:


> Of course mate, but that's an individual thing. Same as the people who stick a 1500cal surplus onto their diet as a 'refeed' or 'cheat day'!
> 
> That's not to say that a refeed doesn't work, it's just that an individual using it as an excuse to eat sh1t for a day!
> 
> I've just had 2 bacon cheeseburgers for breakfast no buns lol.
> 
> View attachment 127058
> 
> 
> This means I can have a slightly lower protein meal later in the day (mackerel on burgen toast) but by the end of the day I will of hit my macros, plus my fibre and my fatty acids. Granted I'm no competitive BBer but I'm progressing and it's hardly a chore, just means I have to think a little harder about what I eat.


See that's ok to a certain degree but again it depends on what you want out of this game. I want to compete again next year so don't wanna get too fat do need to stay clean. Whereas some don't mind carrying a bit of timber so will eat more sh1t.

How you are doing it seems fine but you know members on here would take a dirty bulk or IIFYM as an excuse to eat cakes and pies all day!

I'm not saying that I'm right as I'm no expert but I know what works for me and what I've seen with mates and members on here.


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## Poke

IGotTekkers said:


> Havnt I? Oh ok. When you run your own business, have a baby and do school runs etc.. making and eating 7 or 8 700 calorie meals isn't possible. And I can't eat like that anyway. I eat a few 1000-2000 calorie meals. That's how I like it, that's how it's staying.


Who said eat 8 700 calory meals????

Using my example, you can take 2-5 min and make 2 wraps which equal to a 1400 calory meal.

I never said you can't do what you like lol, I just corrected you that, in order to eat 5000+ cals a day easily you dot have to eat burgers and chips.


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## Little_Jay

Poke said:


> Who said eat 8 700 calory meals????
> 
> Using my example, you can take 2-5 min and make 2 wraps which equal to a 1400 calory meal.
> 
> I never said you can't do what you like lol, I just corrected you that, in order to eat 5000+ cals a day easily you dot have to eat burgers and chips.


he might want to eat burger and chips? why the food snobbery? whos assdd who eats what.

some people need to worry more about them slelves imo


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## Poke

Little_Jay said:


> he might want to eat burger and chips? why the food snobbery? whos assdd who eats what.
> 
> some people need to worry more about them slelves imo


Like I said I never in any way said he can't eat what he want lol, not in any way shape or form were my posts remotely related to that.

He said to eat 5000+ cals you have to eat things like burgers and chips or its too much food. I just corrected him and gave him 1 example of how that statement is wrong.

Some people need to read before they reply.


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## simonthepieman

The whole pro's argument is silly too. The volume of food they are eating and mass they are supporting is incomparable to most.

If you are eating 5k calories your margin or error is far higher than 3k calories. Choosing 'clean' foods makes it easier to be accurate with your macros. Nothing special with the foods. Packaged, restaurant and deli foods are inconsistently marked up

That 5k clean diet is still IIFYM. you've worked out the calories and macros and picked foods to hit it.

The anti IIFYM crowd tend to ignorant 'tards who flap around like a fish on a boat when they hear the acronym. Like it means going out of your way to eat crap against all options available

IIFYM is not eating ****. It's picking a target and hitting it. It's better to pick nutrient rich food. Obviously. But its far worse to over or undereat with deficient macros.

The nutritional value of chicken and rice is fairly mediocre and after the 1st serving the micro nutritional benefit is little if RDAs are reached.

That's why use the quarter pounder with cheese example. It's macros are good, low GI and for 15% of your daily calories. Is a minor impact on your opportunity to get vitamins, minerals, fibre and all that jazz in.

But don't for a second think traditional BB foods are special at all. Their advantage is they are easier to monitor.

A 100% junk food diet WILL have a detrimental effect. A poor digestive system will effect sleep and energy levels and capacity for training and recovery. However 15-20%. Prep aside, I doubt anyone would know anything baring placebo psychological factors.


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## cas

The only food I put into the "dirty" food category is sugars.

See people put chips in the dirty catagory, but not jacket potatoes, when its exactly the same item. I cut chips up and put a 1 calorie spray (might be 2 cals i cant remember)on them and chuck them in the oven

Its the same with burgers, a steak sounds clean and healthy...until you mince it up and grill it as a burger and people automatically think its bad food


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## xpower

80% clean 20% WTF I like lol


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## L11

cas said:


> The only food I put into the "dirty" food category is sugars.
> 
> See people put chips in the dirty catagory, but not jacket potatoes, when its exactly the same item. I cut chips up and put a 1 calorie spray (might be 2 cals i cant remember)on them and chuck them in the oven
> 
> Its the same with burgers, a steak sounds clean and healthy...until you mince it up and grill it as a burger and people automatically think its bad food


But no-one's really saying "homemade chips are bad", they're pretty much all specifically talking about fast food, where the chips are going to be deep fried and covered in salt.


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## Heath

cas said:


> The only food I put into the "dirty" food category is sugars.
> 
> See people put chips in the dirty catagory, but not jacket potatoes, when its exactly the same item. I cut chips up and put a 1 calorie spray (might be 2 cals i cant remember)on them and chuck them in the oven
> 
> Its the same with burgers, a steak sounds clean and healthy...until you mince it up and grill it as a burger and people automatically think its bad food


It's all about the sweet potato wedges with 1 cal spray


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## simonthepieman

MutantX said:


> It's all about the sweet potato wedges with 1 cal spray


Try them par boiled and drizzled in rapeseed oil and rubbed with garlic and chilli


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## L11

Sweet potato wedges take about 3 f*cking days to cook.

Tasty though


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## Fatstuff

L11 said:


> But no-one's really saying "homemade chips are bad", they're pretty much all specifically talking about fast food, where the chips are going to be deep fried and covered in salt.


my mrs makes some awesome homemade chips shes got like a weird flexible mesh thing she does them on.


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## Mr Self

Brook877 said:


> Genuine question-
> 
> Your location isn't filled in, is English not your first language?


i'm from india.english is not my first language.


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## danj02

So if you don't mind eating a few more unhealthy meals and adding a few more pounds, then eating 'dirty foods' is still going to give you the same muscle gains if your hitting your calories?

Should I be more worried about hitting my macros or getting the calories down? Finding it hard to create a diet that has variation in it so I'm not getting tired of eating the same thing each meal.


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## SkinnyJ

Blimey people make this hard! Just eat well and train.


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## danj02

Everywhere I read I'm finding conflicting info on what I should or shouldn't be doing though.


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## rob w

danj02 said:


> Everywhere I read I'm finding conflicting info on what I should or shouldn't be doing though.


That's because there isn't one perfect correct way. Everyone's going to develop and react differently due to genetics and a thousand other variables.


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## alpha alkylated

Luckily I have this close to gym - it's fabulous, healthy and value

http://mangalturkishrestaurant.net/


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