# Is one set of heavy squats to failure enough to build legs?



## pdiddy (May 11, 2012)

I trained legs at the gym today. Started with squats and did 10 reps to failure with 130kg and then a drop set with 100kg. I carried on with the rest of my routine but I was so drained that I packed it in after a few sets.

My thinking was that an all out set of squats will be intense enough to build strength and mass in my legs and doing extra sets of extensions/curls/calf raises would be pointless if I feel mentally and physically tired. Does anybody else train this way?


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Im more of a volume man myself

grow better from low reps way before failure but for 4-5 sets heavy as fck

my legs have grown loads from this, very very heavy squats/front squats

never do any leg press/ ext. calf raies just squats


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

I like both very high volume and pretty low volume with legs.

High frequency is a must though IMO 2-3 times a week.

My legs have been very big both when I did 100sets+ for legs taken beyond failure and when doing 8 or so sets taken just short of failure.

I suggest you look up smolov though, my legs deffo grew off it and you just squat.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

RowRow said:


> I like both very high volume and pretty low volume with legs.
> 
> High frequency is a must though IMO 2-3 times a week.
> 
> ...


2-3 x a week? Fcuk! I need to try this lol such slow progress training them once a week, dunno how I'd arrange it all though?


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Id say so. Legs just take a beating and grow....they have to.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

C.Hill said:


> 2-3 x a week? Fcuk! I need to try this lol such slow progress training them once a week, dunno how I'd arrange it all though?


I think when I did 3 times it was:

Monday-legs

Tuesday-chest+tris

Wednesday-legs

Thursday-back+bis

Friday-legs

Saturday-delts

Sunday off.

With a 30 minute bike ride after each session to ease doms a bit.

Twice a week was

Legs on Monday and Thursday. With an hour bike ride on Saturday to flush the legs.

A tip would be focus on a different part of the leg as each sessions main focus.

So Monday-outer sweep, Wednesday-hams, friday-teardrop so most of the volume focuses on the specific area.


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## aesthetics4ever (Aug 6, 2010)

One heavy set a week is enough for any muscle really. Never hurt Mentzer or Yates!


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

C.Hill said:


> 2-3 x a week? Fcuk! I need to try this lol such slow progress training them once a week, dunno how I'd arrange it all though?


I was training them 3 times a week also while back grew like weeds over night lol

only reason i stopped was time/recovery with other bodyparts being neglected

would deffo advice it though


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

radicalry00 said:


> One heavy set a week is enough for any muscle really. Never hurt Mentzer or Yates!


Both had small legs compared to the like of powerlifters/ olympic lifters who train squat sometime 6 times a week


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

RowRow said:


> I like both very high volume and pretty low volume with legs.
> 
> High frequency is a must though IMO 2-3 times a week.
> 
> ...


Wha? 100 sets+....in one session?


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## aesthetics4ever (Aug 6, 2010)

Yates had small legs? I beg to differ!


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

mixerD1 said:


> Wha? 100 sets+....in one session?


Yeahh buddy!! Think sessions took like 3 hours.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

radicalry00 said:


> Yates had small legs? I beg to differ!


He also didn't just do 1set to failure...

And they were comparatively small.

Ronnie's legs 2x a week


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

radicalry00 said:


> Yates had small legs? I beg to differ!


compared to most powerlifter and olypic lifter i said

he quads werent all that great

his calves were but only through genetic he even admits


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

RowRow said:


> He also didn't just do 1set to failure...
> 
> And they were comparatively small.
> 
> Ronnie's legs 2x a week


exactly

i think his quads were poor for mr olympia IMO

ronnies were immence, no coincidence he did high vol, twice a week and used to be a powerlifter


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

as long as you damage the fibres more than last time, you will grow back better


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Rick89 said:


> exactly
> 
> i think his quads were poor for mr olympia IMO
> 
> ronnies were immence, no coincidence he did high vol, twice a week and used to be a powerlifter


Exactly I took the focus splitting idea from him he does seperate sweep and teardrop focused workouts.

Some Olympic lifters quads are freaky, and that's with 4+ squating sessions a week!


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

RowRow said:


> Exactly I took the focus splitting idea from him he does seperate sweep and teardrop focused workouts.
> 
> Some Olympic lifters quads are freaky, and that's with 4+ squating sessions a week!


I know mate

I tend to focus on front squats mainly when training 3x a week

doing smolov soon really looking forward to it should see me squat 260-270 im hopinh by end of year


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

lol when i hit legs i hit em so hard i can't walk fir 4-5days then ill do em on day 5,6,7or8 depending on what my routine and split is...

3 [email protected] sessions a week dnp equal 1-2 good sessions a week imo and imo if you are not riddled with doms for at least 2-3 days you havent trained them hard enough on the 1st session...

legs are a massive part of the body and imo hit the cns harder then any other body part... 3x a wk will leave you massively over trained after 1-2wks of it.

every 5 days imo is as close as you should have em unless your doing quads and hams sep but still id say quads no closer to next quad session then e5d and hams no closer to next ham session then e5d...


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

RowRow said:


> Exactly I took the focus splitting idea from him he does seperate sweep and teardrop focused workouts.
> 
> Some Olympic lifters quads are freaky, and that's with 4+ squating sessions a week!


What are the best sweep and teardrop focused exercises mate? Never really paid much attention to that.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

RowRow said:


> Exactly I took the focus splitting idea from him he does seperate sweep and teardrop focused workouts.
> 
> Some Olympic lifters quads are freaky, and that's with 4+ squating sessions a week!


these guys are the genetic elite in strength... plus Im sure if they are squatting 4+ times a week they ain't training chest on its own day, delta on its own day, back on its own day plus legs 4x a week... id guess the involve a squat variation into diff lifts and hit other body part on same day as squatting... i maybe wrong but ether way they are the genetic elite and you are not or you'd know shouting by now...


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

RowRow said:


> He also didn't just do 1set to failure...
> 
> And they were comparatively small.
> 
> Ronnie's legs 2x a week


not picking at you here bud lol but unless you were living with Big Ron and followed him 24/7 how do you know what he did... dvd? flex mag? lol I dnp think we ever get the truth from any pro on what they do and also they chop n change so often there is no one right way that Ron trained... prob did a million diff things along the way...


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Ron was also the genetic elite he could walk up stairs and have bigger quads then me and you put together...


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> these guys are the genetic elite in strength... plus Im sure if they are squatting 4+ times a week they ain't training chest on its own day, delta on its own day, back on its own day plus legs 4x a week... id guess the involve a squat variation into diff lifts and hit other body part on same day as squatting... i maybe wrong but ether way they are the genetic elite and you are not or you'd know shouting by now...


you are deffo right about no hitting the body parts a bodybuilder would all week

but I know lads making great gains with 3 sessions a week, no they wont have the doms you have, training is so different and personal mate Im sure you will know that you obviously have gone far and know what works for you but surely you know more than one way to skin a cat

you saying the likes of strongman hitting a heavy max session with 5-6 heavy sets, then a dynamic session of say 10 sets with bands at 60-70% is **** session

intensity is all relative and dom's mean fck all really, progressing be that reps/weight speed, fibres recruited all take hard effort of some kind and all gives great results


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> these guys are the genetic elite in strength... plus Im sure if they are squatting 4+ times a week they ain't training chest on its own day, delta on its own day, back on its own day plus legs 4x a week... id guess the involve a squat variation into diff lifts and hit other body part on same day as squatting... i maybe wrong but ether way they are the genetic elite and you are not or you'd know shouting by now...


know about it by now lol typo on phone


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Possibly the best thread Ive seen here...learning loads off of it.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

pdiddy said:


> I trained legs at the gym today. Started with squats and did 10 reps to failure with 130kg and then a drop set with 100kg. I carried on with the rest of my routine but I was so drained that I packed it in after a few sets.
> 
> My thinking was that an all out set of squats will be intense enough to build strength and mass in my legs and doing extra sets of extensions/curls/calf raises would be pointless if I feel mentally and physically tired. Does anybody else train this way?


Of course it is, same as any other muscle.

I tend to do 3 warmup sets, 1 RM and then a set at 75% 1RM weight and do this to failure, rest/pause. Defo working for me, been training for 2.5 years and going for 230KG squat tomorrow (PB).

I have never done volume etc and will continue in this vein until I plateau.

One word of warning, failure means absolute failure, all out intensity, even better if you have 2 spotters to squeeze a few more out.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

One heavy set of squats a week works for me. Plenty of warm up sets first mind or my old knees won't take it.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Rick89 said:


> you are deffo right about no hitting the body parts a bodybuilder would all week
> 
> but I know lads making great gains with 3 sessions a week, no they wont have the doms you have, training is so different and personal mate Im sure you will know that you obviously have gone far and know what works for you but surely you know more than one way to skin a cat
> 
> ...


it depends what the aim is... i thought we were talking about building legs by the op's post...

your right doms mean nothing but there is no way i could train legs every other day as id be over train ed in a week or two and my cns would be in tatters!

i just think a lot of the ppl you are talking about oly liters, strong man compers big Ron and yates were all genetic elite not average Joe...

there is a million ways to skin a cat but some ways are more effective then others and you recover at home on sofa or in bed not in the gym every day smashing the shyt out of your CNS... every 5 days is about as close as id hit legs or id be 1 over training 2 not training with enough intensity to cause enough stress on the fibers...

as said 3 poor sessions dnt equal 1-2 max good sessions...

all imo

not saying Im right or wrong just putting my opinion out there

dnt mean to sound like Im right just my opinion for you lot to take into account...


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

big_jim_87 said:


> these guys are the genetic elite in strength... plus Im sure if they are squatting 4+ times a week they ain't training chest on its own day, delta on its own day, back on its own day plus legs 4x a week... id guess the involve a squat variation into diff lifts and hit other body part on same day as squatting... i maybe wrong but ether way they are the genetic elite and you are not or you'd know shouting by now...


I agree up to a point...olympic lifts are firstly technique, secondly strength, their legs absolutely have to be strong. But not so much their arms, so their quads look huge by comparison...also they do this 24/7. No going to work...minding the kids...running out to pay a bill etc. Different lifestyle entirely.


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## pdiddy (May 11, 2012)

RowRow said:


> I like both very high volume and pretty low volume with legs.
> 
> High frequency is a must though IMO 2-3 times a week.
> 
> ...


I don't think I'd be able to keep the intensity up if I did legs every 2-3 days, doms sometimes lasts all week for me. My goal is to increase my squat and hope that mass will come with it. I see progression almost every week which is a great buzz. I'm going to cut out the extra isolation exercises because I'm so knackered after squats that I know I'm not giving 100%.


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> it depends what the aim is... i thought we were talking about building legs by the op's post...
> 
> your right doms mean nothing but there is no way i could train legs every other day as id be over train ed in a week or two and my cns would be in tatters!
> 
> ...


I agree with alot of your thought mate and yes your right were talking about hypertrophy for the legs as main goal

I also think that legs especially can recover very fast when adapted to the right periodisation (if thats a word lol) without burning cns for example

Ive made best gains squatting 3 times a week and all session were 100% effort

youve made immence gains your way with massive lesg and strong as fck too boot awsell


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Ita all Horses for courses....i switched my leg training 2 years ago ..doing high rep leg pressing 30-50-100 reps sets...totally fries them...and into squatting last in the workout.......legs made WAAAY better progress....and touch wood since i have followed this i have not yet had any probs regarding knees hams quads etc...worth a try pal.


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

pdiddy said:


> I don't think I'd be able to keep the intensity up if I did legs every 2-3 days, doms sometimes lasts all week for me. My goal is to increase my squat and hope that mass will come with it. I see progression almost every week which is a great buzz. I'm going to cut out the extra isolation exercises because I'm so knackered after squats that I know I'm not giving 100%.


This is my point though

all depend how one defies intensity

weight used/volume/all out failure/ just short of failure/ total fibre recruitment

too many variables

the right programme and thought and any programme can be made to give awesome gains


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

How can your CNS system recover training legs 3 times a week?


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

yannyboy said:


> How can your CNS system recover training legs 3 times a week?


by varying intensity but still gettin the work done

do some research on russian bloc training or just a general power routine in general

they dont train maximum wieght to failure every day, its actually quite techniqual and complex but done right strength and gains go through the roof


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## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

I personally think 1 all out set is enough but you have to take that set to a whole new level. Stopping when it starts to hurt isn't a all out set.

Not a dig here mate but I don't think Doing 1 set with 130kg would be enough, if your doing 220/240 x 10/12

then 1 set will be enough JMO


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

pea head said:


> Ita all Horses for courses....i switched my leg training 2 years ago ..doing high rep leg pressing 30-50-100 reps sets...totally fries them...and into squatting last in the workout.......legs made WAAAY better progress....and touch wood since i have followed this i have not yet had any probs regarding knees hams quads etc...worth a try pal.


Agree, tbh since moving gym i have not even squatted just started now and then at the end now, i used to squat every leg session 1st up proper form just below parallel, since moving gym focusing on leverage squat (hits front quads hard), hack squats and leg presss my legs have come on loads since. With heavy squatting first i feel your lower back, ass take a blunt of the weight if you do them at the end which i do now and then light weights i can feel the quads much more


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Rick89 said:


> exactly
> 
> i think his quads were poor for mr olympia IMO
> 
> ronnies were immence, no coincidence he did high vol, twice a week and used to be a powerlifter


Yeah his quads are awful! 










Granted they didn't have masses of sweep but that's pretty genetic.


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

defdaz said:


> Yeah his quads are awful!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fair enough i take it back lol

they look fckin huge there haha


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Baaahahaha...Dorian.....that's enough now. Stop with the weightlifting, yer gtting too big, except yer legs tho pfft, they're pitiful.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

OP - one set of heavy squats is better than none!


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## pdiddy (May 11, 2012)

kingy_88 said:


> I personally think 1 all out set is enough but you have to take that set to a whole new level. Stopping when it starts to hurt isn't a all out set.
> 
> Not a dig here mate but I don't think Doing 1 set with 130kg would be enough, if your doing 220/240 x 10/12
> 
> then 1 set will be enough JMO


Surely it depends on the person. Just because you're lifting more weight doesn't mean you're working harder. A newbie could squat 60kg to true failure and see more gains than a veteran squatting 300kg. I'm not going to injure myself by putting more weight on the bar than I can safely lift.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

pdiddy said:


> Surely it depends on the person. Just because you're lifting more weight doesn't mean you're working harder. A newbie could squat 60kg to true failure and see more gains than a veteran squatting 300kg. I'm not going to injure myself by putting more weight on the bar than I can safely lift.


of course - its all relative!!


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## kingy_88 (Apr 13, 2009)

pdiddy said:


> Surely it depends on the person. Just because you're lifting more weight doesn't mean you're working harder. A newbie could squat 60kg to true failure and see more gains than a veteran squatting 300kg. I'm not going to injure myself by putting more weight on the bar than I can safely lift.


Yeah I suppose I agree so I'll put it another way.

I don't personally think 1 set would be enough unless your lifting double your body weight so a 130kg set would be fine if you weighed 65kg


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## aesthetics4ever (Aug 6, 2010)

TBF I think Dorian's legs were ****ing amazing and he stands by the fact that one mega intense set per exercise is the best way to train and what made him Mr Olympia.

Since I've started training that way I have made so much progress it's unreal. So I'm inclined to agree with him and say it is the best way to train. (for me anyway)


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## oldskoolcool (Oct 4, 2009)

Is it enough? the muscle needs to be taxed 100% to grow this dosent matter if you do many sets or just one, as long as it's taxed 100% doing more than 1 set to failure imi causes too much stress on your cns even on gear you muscles will not repair untill you cns has and one set will not cause the extra stress to your cns like multi sets will so 1 set = more growth imi.


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