# training to failure



## james_benjamin (Nov 13, 2012)

What are your views on training to failure??? For a couple of years I have done standard pyramid sets of 12 reps 10 reps 8 reps etc... I will count the reps then put the weight down. For example the weight I start on for 12 reps Id count 12 reps put the bar down.. up the weight then put more weight and do ten reps and repeat with 8 and 6 reps. The other day I thought I'd give training to failure a go and where I'd usually do 12 reps I did like 18.. then where I was suppose to do 10 reps I'd to a couple more etc..what do you think?


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## mozzwigan (Apr 20, 2012)

james_benjamin said:


> What are your views on training to failure??? For a couple of years I have done standard pyramid sets of 12 reps 10 reps 8 reps etc... I will count the reps then put the weight down. For example the weight I start on for 12 reps Id count 12 reps put the bar down.. up the weight then put more weight and do ten reps and repeat with 8 and 6 reps. The other day I thought I'd give training to failure a go and where I'd usually do 12 reps I did like 18.. then where I was suppose to do 10 reps I'd to a couple more etc..what do you think?


I found when i started training, that training till failure was actually hindering my gains but back then i was nailing cardio, hill runnign 2x a week till failure! Epic stuff never again HAHA!, when i switched the routine about 4-5 months later, to set reps on a set weight, then adding 2lb a side on next weeks lift, i was seeing more results, do whats best for you bro.

I used always chase the pump. not anymore i go for controlled weight paused reps, but train heavy, this is what i like doing now


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

mozzwigan said:


> I found when i started training, that training till failure was actually hindering my gains but back then i was nailing cardio, hill runnign 2x a week till failure! Epic stuff never again HAHA!, when i switched the routine about 4-5 months later, to set reps on a set weight, then adding 2lb a side on next weeks lift, i was seeing more results, do whats best for you bro.
> 
> I used always chase the pump. not anymore i go for controlled weight paused reps, but train heavy, this is what i like doing now


This


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

james_benjamin said:


> What are your views on training to failure??? For a couple of years I have done standard pyramid sets of 12 reps 10 reps 8 reps etc... I will count the reps then put the weight down. For example the weight I start on for 12 reps Id count 12 reps put the bar down.. up the weight then put more weight and do ten reps and repeat with 8 and 6 reps. The other day I thought I'd give training to failure a go and where I'd usually do 12 reps I did like 18.. then where I was suppose to do 10 reps I'd to a couple more etc..what do you think?


time to increase your starting weight.


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

Rightly or wrongly, I train to failure on each set where I can. (use the gym where I work so limited on some exercises due to equipment)

For example, bench press I would do:

70kg x 12 reps

70kg x 8

70kg x 7

70kg x 6

60kg x 8

My progress is difficult to measure in terms of muscle built at present as I am cutting so not expecting to gain loads but strength is going up consistently so it must be working to some extent. I am able to increase weight roughly every fortnight.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

I've always increased my weight if I could go over 12 reps with anything.


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

I found better results training a body part twice per week with about 12 sets over 2 or 3 exercises per body part each workout not hitting failure but adding weight when I could over a set rep range


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## Jamiegeddon (May 28, 2013)

When doing sets such as: 4 sets of 8 reps with say bicep curls, do you do the 3 sets of 8 and then do the fourth set until failure, possibly exceeding the number of reps in the fourth set?


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## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

Kimball said:


> I've always increased my weight if I could go over 12 reps with anything.


This ^^

if you can do 12 reps at say 100kg on squats you more then likely will be able to do say 8 at 120kg - so you could warm up on the 12 reps and then do sets of 8 thereafter


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

mozzwigan said:


> I found when i started training, that training till failure was actually hindering my gains but back then i was nailing cardio, hill runnign 2x a week till failure! Epic stuff never again HAHA!, when i switched the routine about 4-5 months later, to set reps on a set weight, then adding 2lb a side on next weeks lift, i was seeing more results, do whats best for you bro.
> 
> I used always chase the pump. not anymore i go for controlled weight paused reps, but train heavy, this is what i like doing now


that.

not training to faliure was the best skill i learned to do.

Takes a while to adjust if you have never done it.

It's OK to go to failure now and again as part of the course of hitting PRs, but it shouldn't a be a goal.

I'm talking from the perspective of a natty here, if you are a heavy gear user different rules apply though


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

I have a rep range, incline db for example I would start 3 x 8, and add reps each week until I can do 3 x 10 and up the weight and start at 3 x 8 and do again


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

I like to train heavy and to failure


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

The fact is training to failure on every set is wrong

You should only train to failure on one of the sets of each muscle group for best results


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

BigTrev said:


> The fact is training to failure on every set is wrong
> 
> You should only train to failure on one of the sets of each muscle group for best results


Absolutely.

If you hit failure on your first set, your following ones will be less reps that they could potential be and your top end volume will decrease


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## james_benjamin (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks guys think I'm gunna start training each body part twice a week from now on not hitting failure and go for 4 set of 8 reps per exercise. Then move up the weight each workout !! thinking about it, does make sense for example 4 sets of eight reps at 120kg on bench is better than more reps at a lower weight.. will see how my new routine works out cheers guys =]


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

BigTrev said:


> The fact is training to failure on every set is wrong
> 
> You should only train to failure on one of the sets of each muscle group for best results


Wrong.


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> If you hit failure on your first set, your following ones will be less reps that they could potential be and your top end volume will decrease


I tend to agree with everything you say from a natural's perspective. But a gear user is different and training to failure and beyond is the way to go from my experience (as limited as it may be)


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> If you hit failure on your first set, your following ones will be less reps that they could potential be and your top end volume will decrease


Not really, because you reduce weight on the subsequent set, retaining volume.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> I tend to agree with everything you say from a natural's perspective. But a gear user is different and training to failure and beyond is the way to go from my experience (as limited as it may be)


agree on this


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Kimball said:


> Not really, because you reduce weight on the subsequent set, retaining volume.


But the overall work is lower


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

Failure should be used as tool to bring new growth just like drop sets, rest pause, extra negatives, forced reps, etc etc. these all have there place in your training regime but shouldn't be over used as they are all very taxing on you. I tend to utilze these methods on the last exercise of a body part.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Hit failure on my heaviest sets sometimes. Can generally tell when I am about to fail on the next rep so just stop unless I am going for a pb.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I might fail occasionally, maybe get a double when going for a triple, but never intentionally go to failure these days...


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Bad Alan said:


> Wrong.


Think I will stick to doing it wrong as you say as it seems to work everytime and I don't fancy telling the likes of Dorian hes wrong,,lol


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

@BigTrev ...you training in the rockpit in Bangor mate


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

johnnya said:


> @BigTrev ...you training in the rockpit in Bangor mate


I was up in the rockpit in lisburn mate,,,fantastic gym tho I have moved back to my old gym again

Couldnt rate the Rockpit highly enough,,,the equipment is unreal(free weights etc),,,i just missed my old pals and the staff at my old gym so ended up rejoining it again.


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

BigTrev said:


> Think I will stick to doing it wrong as you say as it seems to work everytime and I don't fancy telling the likes of Dorian hes wrong,,lol


You don't fancy telling Dorian he's wrong?

Did you miss type you're original post then as I thought you put that one set to failure per muscle group? Have you watched him train? Goes to failure on 3-4 moves per muscle group, yes one set per move but not only one set per muscle.

Confused.


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't see the point in training if you're not going to failure. Obviously not every set but id say 80% I do. Then sometimes when I fail ill do partials or negatives or drop sets/triple dropsets etc. This is to ensure that by end of training I've got nothing left in the tank.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

liam0810 said:


> I don't see the point in training if you're not going to failure. Obviously not every set but id say 80% I do. Then sometimes when I fail ill do partials or negatives or drop sets/triple dropsets etc. This is to ensure that by end of training I've got nothing left in the tank.


That's like jogging after sprinting to try and make your sprint faster.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> That's like jogging after sprinting to try and make your sprint faster.


that works too ..................


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

saxondale said:


> that works too ..................


No


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## SwAn1 (Jun 4, 2012)

liam0810 said:


> I don't see the point in training if you're not going to failure. Obviously not every set but id say 80% I do. Then sometimes when I fail ill do partials or negatives or drop sets/triple dropsets etc. This is to ensure that by end of training I've got nothing left in the tank.


best thing I ever did was mainly do most of my sets to failure, drop sets etc. Whats the point in doing say 3 x 8 at 100kg the first 3 sets you had reps left in the tank, the body performed the task you asked it to and with ease it therefore has no reason to adapt and grow IMO. Different things work for different people anyway and higher reps and more to failure has helped me make better gains than I did before!


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> That's like jogging after sprinting to try and make your sprint faster.


How is it? Mate do some reading up


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

U could use a blade a knife or a potato peeler to skin a cat


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## LeviathanBodyBuilding (Jan 9, 2012)

BigTrev said:


> The fact is training to failure on every set is wrong
> 
> You should only train to failure on one of the sets of each muscle group for best results


I'd say, if you are training to failure, you would do so on the last set of each exercise per muscle group, the way you have worded it comes across that you should train to failure on only one set per muscle group which could read as only going to failure for one exercise out of say 3 for eg for quads and only go to failure on that. I think I know what you were getting at but just could have been worded different



Kimball said:


> Not really, because you reduce weight on the subsequent set, retaining volume.


If you reduce the weight of the subsequent sets then each of the sets will be less affective than the one that follows it, I think that's what

@simonthepieman was getting at which I agree, if you pick up a set of DBS and failed at 8 reps on your first set, then by lowering the weight to do the next set for 10-12 would be a waste as you have already done more work for the first set, imo would be better to stick with the weight for the rest of the sets, as you would probs fail at a lower rep thus taxing the muscle even further



BigTrev said:


> Think I will stick to doing it wrong as you say as it seems to work everytime and I don't fancy telling the likes of Dorian hes wrong,,lol





Bad Alan said:


> You don't fancy telling Dorian he's wrong?


Well dorian himself would tell you that you are wrong, he gave me a leg session the other week at temple, and did he give me a session I can tell you, I started with 3sets of leg extensions, ramping the weight on each set till the 3rd when I went to positive failure and he gave me a couple of forced reps, next was leg press, again 3sets increasing the weight per set till I went to failure AGAIN on the last set, then hack squats, 1warmup set then one set to failure, did the same with leg curls, and then finished my hams off with one working set to failure on single leg curls, my legs actually hated me for over a week for this but was worth every moment

 here's a pic of me and mr Yates incase anyone calls bs on the training session lol, but even he says that he only really trained like this for say 6 weeks or so at at time then would train just shy of failure for x amount of weeks before smashing himself again and repeat etc

.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

danMUNDY said:


> I'd say, if you are training to failure, you would do so on the last set of each exercise per muscle group, the way you have worded it comes across that you should train to failure on only one set per muscle group which could read as only going to failure for one exercise out of say 3 for eg for quads and only go to failure on that. I think I know what you were getting at but just could have been worded different
> 
> If you reduce the weight of the subsequent sets then each of the sets will be less affective than the one that follows it, I think that's what
> 
> ...


X2 this,,,,,,i meant as you say,,failure on very last set of each exercise


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## ep1987 (Jan 4, 2013)

1. Learn where failure is

2. Stop one or two reps short of failure on most work sets

3. Work in occasional assisted positives

4. Always train to feel rather than a pre-determined number and keep the form as you intend


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm not even sure what training to failure is, how the f*ck do you reach failure on bench press? If you've failed then how do you get the bar back on the rack?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

L11 said:


> I'm not even sure what training to failure is, how the f*ck do you reach failure on bench press? If you've failed then how do you get the bar back on the rack?


nah, that happens to me every time I press.


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## ryda (May 31, 2010)

Been doing this with calves and forearms recently because to me if I do a normal 4 set 10-12 reps with these parts and don't feel no burn then not much is going to happen so I have been timing myself for 30-45 seconds so that when the burn does kick in I have to keep going till the clock reaches 30 secs been doing this about month now and I've deffo seen improvements

Give it a go people


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

L11 said:


> I'm not even sure what training to failure is, how the f*ck do you reach failure on bench press? If you've failed then how do you get the bar back on the rack?


You have a spotter mate, should always have a spotter on pressing or squats in my opinion for safety more than anything. But also to eek out that final bit you have left that you know you won't try on your own in fear of being stuck, but will with a spotter.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

L11 said:


> I'm not even sure what training to failure is, how the f*ck do you reach failure on bench press? If you've failed then how do you get the bar back on the rack?


I did that when I first started training again with no spotter and only a 50 kg bench was slightly embarrassing.


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

kingdale said:


> I did that when I first started training again with no spotter and only a 50 kg bench was slightly embarrassing.


Done it myself mate, actually a few times ha! Same with squats, been stuck at bottom a few times too!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I did that when I first started training again with no spotter and only a 50 kg bench was slightly embarrassing.


The 'roll of shame' should be experienced by all


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> The 'roll of shame' should be experienced by all


Indeed, I always try to Make sure I have a spotter for bench now.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Heavier loads = low-moderate reps not to failure

Lighter loads = high reps to failure

Several new studies suggest these to be the optimal patterns for maximal results, and both equal in overall effect for hypertrophy - certainly comparing heavy loads of 80% 1RM and light loads of 30% 1RM.

Where these protocols differ is not the hypertrophy adaptation but the secondary responses - heavier loads increase strength more than lighter loads, but lighter loads increase lactate threshold and endurance capacity to a greater degree.


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## jonesboy (Apr 7, 2013)

Kimball said:


> I've always increased my weight if I could go over 12 reps with anything.


Same here mate.


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## heavyduty11 (Aug 28, 2013)

Only take 2 sets to failure after 1 or 2 warm up sets. After the first set is taken to positive failure I would just reduce the weight by 10 pounds and after a minute to a minute a half rest, do a second set to positive failure.


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