# Politics and sport



## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

Do they mix,

Mohammed Ali, the black power salute for civil rights in the 68 olympics, Jeff Monson, all people I admire for both their athletic achievements but also their political stands,

whenever i go to competitions I always try to make a point in wearing a political tee shirt ie anti war, defending a strike, anti BNP etc

Like celebrities who speak out against injustice I think politics and sport do mix as its an extention of being a "good role model"

with the rise of the BNP building on division poverty and dispair I think MMA clubs who display anti BNP posters give gravitas to anti racist organisations like UAF, likewise if say the local firestation or factory is on strike to defend their pay and conditions having a striker poping in before or after a session talking about their dispute would be inspiring both for the fighters and the campaigners!

Id like to hear wat other people think


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## Cha$e (Dec 11, 2007)

I think where race or creed are involved then it doesn't not belong as a political argument as any man or woman trains the same way to fight the same way regardless of their colour or religious beliefs.

As for other political influences i don't really pay attention so i don't think it belongs in sport myself as sport is about competition not about the wars being fought, not about the party to win the elections etc.

Just my opinion.


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## Kunoichi (Sep 30, 2007)

Shouldn't everything 'mix' with politics?

Sport is just another medium of persuasion like any other (telly, billboards etc), strategists only found a cheaper, more discrete and way more influential way to reach its audience(s): people's idols.

I think it's genious. Simple, but genious.

I'm more interested in how the media change politics though; the power of media over it. For example, did you know that Rupert Murdoch has a voice in UK's politics? For the Sun readers, if you have an analytical mind (not the target audience of the Sun but it happens) have you ever noticed why is it against the UK being closer to the continent in any way, including the media being regulated by European guidelines?

(long sotry short, british media is self regulatory, meaning it can say whatever it wants. Its this freedom that allows it to explore and publish the most unthinkable stories, which will turn inro sales = profit. If we get closer to the continent, the media will be regulated and therefore they won't be able to say the things they say. That'll turn into less profit -- which party is against this closeness? Isn't it David Cameron's? Murdoch's papers -not just the Sun- support Cameron* and always try to portray a good image of him. How weird is that?).

* I'm not sure it is Cameron's though. It's some political party, I don't remember which right now lol

Also, did you know it was a newspaper who started this plastic bag craze? (about supermarkets starting to charge for them in order to get us to use reusable bags instead etc).It was the Daily Mail who started it in February, when it wrote a 6-page article about it. Two days later the proposal to ban plastic bags was being worked in the parliament.

Today, I think it's somewhere near Devon that they don't use plastic bags anymore, and they're making pressure to do the same in London.

etc etc etc.

/rant

I find politics fascinating. Most people don't because what they see are a bunch or retards on a podium with a microphone on, but there's so much more to it :rofl:

I find it very interesting, and rather amusing too.

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Edit:

Reading Cha$e's post I gotta say I don't vote either. I think these elections thing are just a hat trick to distract us from seeing what's really happening behind the scenes. We look at the rabbit and we don't even notice there's something coming from under the sleeve.

The politcs we see on tv and the papers are the puppetry show they put to tell us they are 'working'. Almost like the wars in middle east happening right now: they're going nowhere but they're capturing small-time criminals to show the world they are having work done.

I love politcs but I don't study it though (I study media and advertising. Which I just learned yesterday that I finished woohoo! Kunoichi has graduted her ass! eheh) so this is just my opinion of things


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

heres some dilemas to throw out there and to see wat u guys think;

youve trained really hard for a competition, its up next week, ur family and friends are all comin......

but theres a strike by the staff as one of thems been sacked for trying to start a union you ve arrived at the event and theres a picket line outside the venue,

do you apologise and cross or stand alongside the strikers in solidarity?


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## Cha$e (Dec 11, 2007)

Im sorry but im there to fight. I've trained my nuts off to get there in the best shape as i can be and if they have a problem i'll be fighting them too as a warm up lol. So i would cross the picket line


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

Politics is politics, sport is sport, I training and fight because I enjoy it and I really don't want to hear anyone's political POV, I'm fed up with celebs be they sportspeople or "personalities" who think they have a right to tell you how to think, they have an opinion like anyone else but in my book they can keep it themselves or to conversations with their mates.

It's amazing how many millionnaire pop/movie stars tell everyone to go green and give to charity when a lot of them have the cash as disposable income to make a far bigger impact than they do but they give what their accountants tell them and right it off as tax loss... Bono anyone?

My 2p... Personally I'm thinking about going back to not watching TV and refusing to read newspapers, I was a lot happier then, did it for 4 years and can honestly say I missed nothing.

BTW, this is an MMA forum, not a politics forum.


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## paul (Aug 27, 2008)

I dont think politics and sport should go hand in hand. I agree with matt, politics is politics, me and probably alot of others play sport purely for the love of it. I started participating in many sports from the age of 4, I certainly had no political agenda then and nor do I now. I participate because it makes me tick. Listening to ''famous'' people rant on about this and that about politics etc makes me cringe. Its more do as I say more than do as i do. I dont think to get my views on life or politics out there I have to wear statement tees. What is that going to change, the world is the way it is, and nobody wearing bold print tshirts is going to change that. Leave politics where it is and get on with sport. Life is simple, relax and enjoy it.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Ali is the greatest. He really is. Can you imagine saying "no i aint gonna kill people that i have no argument with".in a time when black people were still the "Strange Fruit". He is my all time hero. He was nieve . I agree. He didnt have the sense to follow Malcom X, when Malcom X realised that The honerable Elijah Mohamed really was just a biggot and a racist and began to understand that we are all equal.

I do think that Ali was a greater influence for good than Malcome X or even Martin Luther king. He was willing to give up his carreer and go to prison.

A great man indeed.

Tommie Smith And John Carlos were strong symbols. The black gloved hand in the air.. well it was absolute dinamite. It blew away a whole lot of people. Brave individuals.

How about now. Is it possible for an athlete to make his opinions known with out being shot down by the likes of the sun... i doubt it.But it isnt just the evil of the sun that would do for them. It would me and you ... It would be society . Todays society aint prapared to listen to any one any more .. oh no.

Why?.. Because society does not exist any more. Thatcher seen to that.She was initialy wrong when she said "society does not exist".. But she certainly made it come true.

The world doesnt have room for politics in any thing any more ,as the media will not allow it.I havent bought a news paper since the 80s. Murdoch is a waste of perfectly good atoms. I hate the guy. thats why i will never have sky.

I would like to say that everyone should shmoke a load of the herbal remmedie and say peace to each other ... but ive done that and it doesnt work. It didnt work for John Lennon either... And it screws ya lungs up too.

So the conclusion is... [email protected]~K it lets just carry on fighting and forget the politics, because fighting is where its at.


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

"BTW, this is an MMA forum, not a politics forum"

I know mate thats why i put it in general conversation, if ur not into the topic ignore it!!

i think politics is intertwined with sport (in a bad way) carrying the olympic torch from country to country was developed by the nazis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Larkin_(Olympics)

UFC stars often at the end of a fight praise US troops for "defending democracy" as oposed to the unfortunate situation they are in being defending US oil interests.

I see wat some of you are saying in relation to mega rich hypocritical stars moralising with us, but i dont feel that some "tell us how to think"

mohammed ali, geoff monson dont come across as moralistic, they re just highlighting issues

yes wearing tee shirts don't change the world but can start an interesting conversation, and pointing out to people who are interested if they want to get involved were they can go

I think its a personal choice whether people want to be political or not whilst participating in their sport, but my personal view is thats its refreshing when people do

ps i'd never cross a picket line


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## paul (Aug 27, 2008)

salmirza said:


> ps i'd never cross a picket line


Surely that would depend on the situation?

By all means talk about politics, it doesnt bother me, but preaching does.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

salmirza said:


> "BTW, this is an MMA forum, not a politics forum"
> 
> I know mate thats why i put it in general conversation, if ur not into the topic ignore it!!
> 
> ...


 I bet you dont know about the likes of red robbo.. well he had a hand in destroying car manufacturing in birmingham in the seventies. Back then if you tried to cross the picket line you would have got your ass kicked. Times have changed now. But what will you do when you got a house a new car and 3 kids to pay for. Man you dont know what yo would do untill reality hits .

Shit.. for a minute there i forgot this was a mma forum. sorry guys.

How about arm baring your way through a picket line. Wheee yaaa. Hiii yaaaah.:growl:


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

paul said:



> Surely that would depend on the situation?
> 
> By all means talk about politics, it doesnt bother me, but preaching does.


^^^^^What he said^^^^^

At the end of the day mate, you're obviously trying to come across as some kind of politically aware idealist with strong views and trying to provoke somthing from it, I'm not really sure why though, wearing a provocative tshirt or talking politics on forums doesn't achieve anything.

Like Spitfire said, and it may just be quote of the month:

So the conclusion is... [email protected]~K it lets just carry on fighting and forget the politics, because fighting is where its at.


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

In realtion to red robbo he went a long time ago, and rover is doing really well now.. oh hang on its closed, problem with BL rover etc was lack of investment in the R&D department not workers trying to fight for better pay and conditions.

you re of course right wearing a tshirt doesnt change anything in itself but heres the thing;

for me it opens up a conversation ie whenever im at a political event i wear a wrestling tee shirt and people who are interested in it approach me and i give them details about local or national clubs, i dont think im preaching to anyone, they approach me, same as if im at a wrestling comp or sometimes at training, il sometimes wear a political tee shirt

no i havent changed the world, yes i may meet up with somone who has the same interest as me;

kick racism out of football is/was a great initiative where sport meets politics in a good and united way, im not saying there should be a kick racism out of mma group set up because mma is built on global styles and respect of fighting methods

if i was good enough to have gone to the olympics and was asked to carry the flame through london i would have said yes then handed over the torch to the free tibet protestors.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

salmirza said:


> In realtion to red robbo he went a long time ago, and rover is doing really well now.. oh hang on its closed, problem with BL rover etc was lack of investment in the R&D department not workers trying to fight for better pay and conditions.
> 
> you re of course right wearing a tshirt doesnt change anything in itself but heres the thing;
> 
> ...


I love idealism.Its a great fantasy.

This is not a political forum.... but B.L workers fighting for better condition's.. your having a laugh. At the factory in castle brom' in birmingham( it was called fisher's and its where the spitfire and the lancaster bomber's were built). They used to have their own matresses in the factory so they could have a kip on the night shift.

In my view every worker would be strongly advised to be a union member and every union member has a responability to do the right thing, not only for them selves but also the wider community.

With respect to the mma scene, it will be interesting to see how every one reacts when a fighter decides to tell the world that he is gay. Forget about worker's, back or white, cristian or muslim. I think being gay in the mma world would be a difficult one. What's your view on gays in the mma world Salmirza.


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

gays should be welcomed and homophobic attitudes challenged,

ive coached women in the past and not had any "sexual" feelings towards them (like im sure 99.9% of other coaches), if i wrestled a gay guy and he fancied me and told me about it id tell him just like i would with a woman if i didnt fancy them, that im flattered but not interested

i know this is an mma forum, im not tryin to stir the "shit" just interested in this topic in relation to the sport.

in the spirit of the mma forum i wont go too deeply into BL Rover unions debate as im (and maybe failing miserably) trying to keep the discussion general, so i dont mind chatting about that specific issue via email or facebook so as not to bore the pants out of the other readers


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## paul (Aug 27, 2008)

in response to the kick racism out of football comment. Your right it was a good idea but it hasnt worked has it. Many players have had countless problems when playing away in international games, heskey in croatia for example. Some people will never change, its like the saying, you can lead a horse to water...

Also just because you were fighting a guy who was gay, doesnt mean they would fancy you.

Im not sure of the point you are trying to get across here.


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

sorry i didnt mean to sound like some kind of irrisistable human being, yes you re right it would be highly unlikely that anyone man woman or animal would fancy me but i guess wat im tryng to articulate is a common statement people come out with wen this issue is raised

i do think people change (not all) ive got some ex NF friends who wud go nuts if i suffered a racist attack

britain today is way less racist than it was 10/15 years ago


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## paul (Aug 27, 2008)

yes people do change, but only if THEY want to.

We get fed so much shit, on so many different fronts.

All I care about is myself and the people I care about. That might sound selfish but I can look after them, and if the people I love are happy, so am i.

In the grand scheme of things, we are very small, and Im sorry but you arent going to change anything.


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## JayC (Jul 16, 2007)

> Also just because you were fighting a guy who was gay, doesnt mean they would fancy you.
> 
> Im not sure of the point you are trying to get across here.


It's easily understandable, he's just saying that he isn't homophobic, and that IF, not when, a gay guy says he likes him, he won't just go off on one and start abusing the gay guy and kick him out the club, he'll just tell him that he's flattered.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

salmirza said:


> gays should be welcomed and homophobic attitudes challenged,
> 
> ive coached women in the past and not had any "sexual" feelings towards them (like im sure 99.9% of other coaches), if i wrestled a gay guy and he fancied me and told me about it id tell him just like i would with a woman if i didnt fancy them, that im flattered but not interested
> 
> ...


 I think re the gay comments , we may have misunderstood each other. I meant , how would the audience and the media plus the fighter's react. Im not talking about how some one would react when getting in a clinch.

Now ive actually posed the question and allowed my brain to ruminate on it a while . I think the answer is 99.9% of fighter's would except gay fighter's as any other fighter. I think most guy's and gal's in the mma world seem to be intelligent folk and would'nt give a monkey as to what orientation, sexualy fighter's are. So now ive answered my own question i can now go fourth and multiply.. or just go to the gym.


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## paul (Aug 27, 2008)

first off - jay c, how did i know you would disagree with summit I said. You couldn't be more condescending.

secondly - why would he kick off if the guy was gay?


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

dont think the media would have a go at a gay fighter, fans probably, fighters maybe,

i think in order to get respect theyd have to be tougher than most (nobody takes the piss out of that ladyboy tai fighter, or at least i dont think they do, but hes apparently one of the best)

heres one which may come across as stiring the shit though thats not my intention, next time you go training if the topic of girls comes up tell ur mates they dont float yer boat as you swing the other way and see their response.


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

salmirza said:


> (nobody takes the piss out of that ladyboy tai fighter, or at least i dont think they do, but hes apparently one of the best)


Things are very different in Thailand and the attitude to kathoeys is very different to any other country, it's not seen as anything particularly wrong or different, kathoey are basically considered a third sex in Thailand.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

Personally the only people I think would have an issue with gays fighting (IN MY PERCEPTION) is American hicks - who are also (IN MY OPNION) big followers of UFC type events - the majority of fighters are everyday people with an interest in martial arts, self defence etc so I feel to say why would fighters .....is this an example as on an MMA forum?, MMA is all about races mixing - BJJ (Brazil) karate (china, Japan or India if you wanna get technical) etc etc etc - If I had exposure to influence and felt really passionate about something - I would wear a t-shirt to raise awareness but I would not "do a Bono" as pointed out no one wants to be preached too - especially by a hypocrit.


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

cool, im thinking of organising a takedown wrestling competition, after all the expenses are paid for room hire etc, i was thinking about donating any profits to unite against facism UAF, i was/will advertise it as such wqith an entry fee of Â£3 or Â£5 (i havent done the maths yet)

so question 4 peps on here is this a reasonable thing to organise or should i not mix the 2?


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Where does facism exist these day's?


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

spitfire said:


> Where does facism exist these day's?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/7378939.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/30/italy

http://www.uaf.org.uk/

wen i was a kid around the times of the NF life was pretty scary

i got spat at all the time couldnt play football with my white mates etc etc, dont want young kids to live through that and worse again :no:

and wat with the credit crunch and crap polititians its all fertile ground 4 these nazi bums to recruit and organise


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Yeh i agree with you as far as social facism is concerned, but not politicaly. It will always be beaton down in the uk. I used to be a member of the anti nazi league in the 80s, after the nazi ideals of the 70s. but in reality there wasnt any nazi's around.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

:laugh::laugh: (another unfortunate typo gets slammed) Facismn isn't that when your in the pub and somone says - what the fekk are u lookin' at??? - or words to that effect.

Personally I think people would turn up for the wrestling and not for the cause...maybe just worth putting percent of profits would go towards...just my opinion could be wrong, personally it would not put me off and I have no problem with such an event or people contributing and feeling passionate about something (again as long as you do not get the lecture as well...)


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## salmirza (Aug 25, 2008)

yes ur right people would just turn up for the wrestling, but i wud have no probs with that, as far as bono style or any style of "lectures" id prob have a stall in the corner maybe some posters up so if people wanted to pick up and read some leaflets they could


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

to be honest im quite happy to have a beer with any one . Nazi or er saint.Especially if the nazi wears the freddie star outfit. you know the welli boots and shorts ... you lot aint gonna know the freddie star thing are you..find him on you tube .


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## SteSteez (Jul 21, 2007)

A lot of debate has gone on here and i may be late? I dunno but salmirza you mention at the start of the topic you say there is a rise in The BNP, this cannot be any further from the truth, The BNP have recently won seats in several parts of the country but in comparison with other parties their recognition is only based primarily on their hate for anything non-english

Looking in heavy detail into the policies, particulrly their foreign policies they are almost absolete so even if they did get in they would be quickly hounded out as their current policy set is based on local agenda, so they may win the local majorally white town near your home but i can assure you they will never gain two feet into No.10

With the financial meltdown being the big agenda right now poll after poll shows a massive interest in nationalisation of the financial sector and our energy sector with our health system already nationalised. The BNP are far to right wing and idealist for any form of nationalisation process.

With regards to sport and politics, whether we like it or not Politics is apart of everything and plays a major part in sport, examples being with the olympics, and in football with governing bodies such as FiFA/EUFA.

People politics however such as displaying your political agenda during sporting contest i'm in full favour of, it always puts a smile on my face when i see say black footballers for england not singing the national anthem (and rightly so) i mean would you sing god save the queen knowing that for hundreds of years her ancestry has genetically manipulated your ethnic race for enslavement and profit?

But it also sickens me when i see them singing the anthem aswel...

but in MMA for me I see the sport as a great way to bond cultures and communities together, having an anti bnp poster in your mma gym may scare away the racist skinhead who may come to your gym and eventually get to know a pakistani guy and they may become best of friends due to the sharing of a common interest.

I see MMA as Mixed, everybody is welcome,anything is welcome, obviously there are respect/etiquette policies one must obey but MMA can be that cultural bond that football has been in this country for many years. being anti this or anti that just segregates


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

I'll second that...P.S the stall is a good idea if you have a particular message you would like to promote - mine would be more against guns, knives or hunger for instance rather than anti such a group, However, each to their own.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Hmmm!


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh yeah, and fighers against SOUP alliance!!!!! (FASA), lol.


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