# 10 - 20lbs to gain



## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

ok i have been losing some fat latley for a up comming holiday but with that i have lost alot of weight, im currently down to 165lbs

i think i could poss go down to as low as 160lbs by the time i return of hol, so i will be looking to gain about 10lbs of lean muscle, my aim is sept (end of) so by the time i return of hol i will have around 12-15 weeks

is it acheivable?

any way here is the diet i was looking at !!

shake in the morning pre wo , with 100g oats

shake after training with 50g oats

other 4 meals spread out over the day every 3 hours,

i have been eating losts of chicken thighs , drumb sticks, legs as breast is dry as hell.

so that with rice, or spag bol or home made burgers all with veg, ill make sure i also get 6 eggs in per day

dont know how anal to be with the diet , ie i eat chcken legs and thighs etc just as i prefer it to breast.

oh yeah and i want it to be very very lean gains as i want to keep my bf% to highest 13%


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2008)

Well firstly good luck with the program as its a realistic one unlike most of the "aims" i see on this board.

Eat a lot of lean beef whenever possible, at the moment i am very fond of extra lean beef burgers i cook two of these and put them in a whole grain bun with salad and ranch sauce its delicious and works out close to 800cals.

As far as the chicken i am not a big fan my self of plain chicken breast so get a nice sauce my current fav is protein pasta with chicken diced up in a 4 cheese sauce which is actually very low in fat.

Avoid drum sticks as there is barely any protein in them with a lot of fat as a general.

With your post work out shake also drink some simple sugars personally i like some waixy maize or vitargo but if money is low a glass of orange juice or even a coke will do.


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## pauly7582 (Jan 16, 2007)

To clarify you want to gain 10lbs in 12-15 weeks starting from when you come back from holiday?

That's not really a diet mate. It's a summary of the types of foods you would generally eat. Times and quanities are what we'll need.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

ok yeah 10 lbs most likley but if i done it quick enough then i would consider moving up a weight class at kickboxing to 180lbs but ok for now lets say 10lbs in 12-15 weeks.

ok sample day

0630 - wake - 100g oats 500ml milk 1 scoop protein

0730 - gym

0845 - 50g oats 1 scoop protein 250ml milk

1200 - 2 chicken thighs , 75g basmati rice , mixed veg in there too

1500 - 100g wholemeal pasta 200g lean mice beef sauce to go and suitable veg for spag

1800 - 1 chiken leg with veg and 75g basmati rice

2100 - 6 scrambled eggs

2200 - 2300 - bed around here

or

0630 - 2x 100g home made lean beef burgers and wholemeal bread buns

0730 - gym

0845 - shake with 50g oats

1200 - chicken leg with 75g wolemeal rice and veg

1500 - 100g chiken breast with 100g pasta and veg

1800 - 6 eggs 2 slices of wholemeal bread

2100 - 200g lean mince (chilli con carne)

2200-2300 - bed

there is 2 poss days


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

any veiws on the sample days?? also thanks for the input con and paul. glad to hear its realistic. and ill try replace the drumbsticks with legs and will most likley have a orange juice after the wo with me shake as i am low on cash due to petrol rise and mortgage rises, F*ckin english government.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Do you take kick boxing seriously?


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah mate, why you ask?

left my coach otlong ago after a long time. he has moved to usa but i have spoke to uni team and trainer reckons if im as good as i reckon the i should walk on the team. but 10 lbs is a hell of a jump . at the moment im under my norm fighting weight of 170lbs but hope to get to it and in much better condioning. but had fair few fights and not beaten so fairly serious, wouldnt mind giving semi pro a go when i have been back to training for a while maybee 18 month - 2 years realistically to get back into fighting form and get a good 5-10 bouts again


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

You cannot be serious if you are trying to lose weight and potentially going catabolic on your current regime to look good on the beach

10lb of real lean muscle is very hard to gain and the longer you have to do it the better, but instead you are wasting time not building muscle for reasons of vanity

thats why i asked

eat like a kick boxer, train like one and you will become a more efficient one

I assure you no kick boxer will be dieting in te manner in which you are


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You want to gain that much muscle without resistance training?

I didnt read into your thread where you mentioned anything about weight lifting.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

i needed to diet anyway and fairly quickly, 4-5 weeks dieting to strip some fat aint going to affect me as a kickboxer lol, i know what your trying to say but this way i will have lowered my bf and can now concentrate on getting to my weight needed but with lower bf%. as for the effect on my kickboxing a diet like that is no were near as harsh as being too big and have to do a proper weight drop the week before the fight which is what mos ammatures do. instead of keeping weight constant it is not rare to see them drop 5-10 lbs in a week trust me as this is what they did in many clubs i have been in and although they have a week after the weigh in to rehydrate it has a much worse affect so id say im doing the better choice. also it wont have too much affect on my kb i have done some stupid diets and routines in my training but not beat yet , i would think i take it alot more serious than others at my level from what i can gather from the clubs i hve been to and spoke to


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hackski - yeah i will be doing weight training im just wondering about my diet here cheers w


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

post your picture up again warren


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

what one mate? i aint got a recent one!

few weeks ago?










176-177 here 16/17%bf??


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> i needed to diet anyway and fairly quickly, 4-5 weeks dieting to strip some fat aint going to affect me as a kickboxer lol, i know what your trying to say but this way i will have lowered my bf and can now concentrate on getting to my weight needed but with lower bf%. as for the effect on my kickboxing a diet like that is no were near as harsh as being too big and have to do a proper weight drop the week before the fight which is what mos ammatures do. instead of keeping weight constant it is not rare to see them drop 5-10 lbs in a week trust me as this is what they did in many clubs i have been in and although they have a week after the weigh in to rehydrate it has a much worse affect so id say im doing the better choice. also it wont have too much affect on my kb i have done some stupid diets and routines in my training but not beat yet , i would think i take it alot more serious than others at my level from what i can gather from the clubs i hve been to and spoke to


Do they follow bodybuilding diets and train like bodybuilders?


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

depends !!! 50% are in really good shape, eat well, and if they are trying to gain muscle then yes the eat like a bb and train like a bb. if they are in a run up to a fight then to a lesser extent more like 75% sparring and bag work 25% lifting #

the other 50% are in terrible shape for kick boxers and deserve everything they get in the ring


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Kick boxers do not eat or train like bodybuilders

Have a read on some kick boxing forums about diet and training and you will find its nothing like what is proposed on muscle building forums


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

totally depends on what level your looking at mate, are you a kickboxer or boxer?? at ammature level? the pro's and semi pro's are way different in training to the ammatures mainly as most semipro/pro are already at their desired weight and and apart from the odd individual they dont stray to far away from their fight weight and with low bodyfat. therefore they do not need to train or eat like bb but when at a higher bf% and low weigt then training ike a bb to get up to a certain weight is fine,

i know how to train to be a kickbxer as if i was no good at that then i would have been beaten by now, what i do need help with is trying to get to my desired weight. and then i can concentrate solely on the polymetrics, bag work, rope work, explosive power training and lot and lot and lots of road work.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

I pass, you have no idea my friend


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

what are you on about lol, your telling me that if a guy needs to gain 10 lbs he is best just to stick to the kickboxing training to get there? if so why is everyone on here bothering with bb why dont they train like kickboxers and get massive???

awnser - because kickboxing training is great for improving speed power movement but NOT for gaining weight. the most efficient way to gain weight is bb training

and my question, are you a kickboxer??


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

lol, do you know anything about weight training? how to structure it and how a bodybuilder trains?

This debate will spiral into science if you want but trust me, go do your homework between bodybuilding weight training and suitable weight training for kickboxing


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

i KNOW how to train for kickboxing!! BUT there is very little lifting involved in a kickboxing routine and therby making it a poor routine to build muscle.

i mightent be the most knowlegable on weightlifting routines and diet hence why im on here asking but

my point to you is kickboxing routines are NOT for gaining muscle


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The diet looks ok to me, although I dont weigh my food so overall calories I have no idea how many you would need.

I would think that some weight training might slow you down some.

I myself have no idea how to train for kick boxing.


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## nathanlowe (Jan 8, 2008)

Lost Soul

What warren is getting at. How do you expect him to gain the muscle he wants without doing BB training ?


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## dancemag (Dec 6, 2007)

Lost Soul can you please explain what you mean, as i'm sure it would help warren to hear an experienced point of view. However, I really can't see how a kickboxer would gain weight without taking on a "bodybuilding" approach to gain the pounds to go up in class...


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

thanks everyone for the input and like i said before and few other are understanding,

bodybuilding isnt going to help me with kb, but kb isnt going to help me get to the weight needed to fight therefore i need both but for now i need to make weight therefore the bb diet and routine is needed.

also thank hackski for the diet check, im looking forward to eating all that lol


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

nathanlowe said:


> Lost Soul
> 
> What warren is getting at. How do you expect him to gain the muscle he wants without doing BB training ?


by training for purpose



dancemag said:


> Lost Soul can you please explain what you mean, as i'm sure it would help warren to hear an experienced point of view. However, I really can't see how a kickboxer would gain weight without taking on a "bodybuilding" approach to gain the pounds to go up in class...


Gents

Please look at specific Vs non specific hypertrophy, rational an irrational hypertrophy.

Bodybuilders dont train like power lifters but they both lift weights

Kickboxers do not train like bodybuilders but they still lift weights

First question

1-What is the ultimate goal of a bodybuilder when weight training?

2-What is the ultimate goal of a kickboxer when weight training?

Then after the answers, are they the same?


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

Lost soul, personally I wouldnt doubt your knowledge, Ive read alot of your posts and theres some brilliant information in there, but you dont half make it hard work to get it out of you :bounce:


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## dancemag (Dec 6, 2007)

lol


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

irwit said:


> Lost soul, personally I wouldnt doubt your knowledge, Ive read alot of your posts and theres some brilliant information in there, but you dont half make it hard work to get it out of you :bounce:


No, I ask people questions, make people think. My way is from experience and IMO but I ask people why you do certain things as it answers their questions

Bodybuilders have non functional hypertophy gains, of what use is this to a kickboxer?

Tell me that?

Does a kickboxer have the same nitrogen turnover as a bodybuilder? no, not usually.

Does a kick boxer have a higher output in terms of cardio, generally yes. Is this sport specific? yes, Is a bodybuilders cardio anything to do with performance? no, its about losing body fat.

Is a bodybuilder in good working order come the day of a show? no, he is a fcukin wreck. Is a kickboxer in great shape come fight day? yes, is he strong and on the top of his strength, power and skill game? yes. Does he run a ketogenic diet to do this? no

So why do people insist on muddying the waters and suggest beyond a barbell and a Db there is a similarity in bodybuilding weight training and training for sport?


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

good points, I understand where you are coming from. but I think the way warren is looking at it ( not that Im speaking for him ) would be hes 3 goals. To lose body fat then to gain muscle THEN to train for kick boxing. He attacking each goal seperately and treating the other goal as unrelated until hes achieved his first goal. Seems fair enough but I think each goal is going to have a negative effect on the other goal. I guess how he attacks this all depends on how serious he is about kick boxing.

Ive read alot about how actors bulk up quickly for roles, the guy from fast and furious had a good body but it does change role to role. Ive read interviews where he has put on alot of weight finished shooting the film and had time off, but realised his sports of surfing and such were really hampered by his new mass so he lost it all again on purpose to gain his flexibility back.

I always wondered how wrestlers train. Look at Triple H, he used to be a high flyer, serious light weight. Now hes about as big as people get, ripped but still able to perform like a gymnast ( you know what I mean ) and brilliant stamina and cardio. I wouldnt of thought to get his cardio and flexibility you would train like a bb but I may be wrong ...


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Without sounding too harsh here, Warren wants everything at once, hes now wanting to or has lost weight to look good for his holidays, when 10 weeks ago he was panicking about needing to put weight on for playing American football at Uni.

He has to realise that following the au naturale route is going to be a long one both gaining weight and size. Im not sure what he wants, because he was told what to do to gain weight, then lost weight, now...again...he wants to gain 10lbs of muscle by september? Its not going to happen IMO.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

irwit said:


> I always wondered how wrestlers train. Look at Triple H, he used to be a high flyer, serious light weight. Now hes about as big as people get, ripped but still able to perform like a gymnast ( you know what I mean ) and brilliant stamina and cardio. I wouldnt of thought to get his cardio and flexibility you would train like a bb but I may be wrong ...


No you wouldnt but he may well lift weights hard and heavy



Five-O said:


> Without sounding too harsh here, Warren wants everything at once, hes now wanting to or has lost weight to look good for his holidays, when 10 weeks ago he was panicking about needing to put weight on for playing American football at Uni.
> 
> He has to realise that following the au naturale route is going to be a long one both gaining weight and size. Im not sure what he wants, because he was told what to do to gain weight, then lost weight, now...again...he wants to gain 10lbs of muscle by september? Its not going to happen IMO.


Agree and especially when its functional muscle


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

im not too sure how to multi quote properly but

five-0 = i dont know if your read my post afeww month back , but i cant play american football anymore i have got really bad shin splints when i sprint, so when it comes to it i wouldnt have anything to offer as the only thing i had of any use was speed but now cant sprint. also its not that i want everything at once its that im not willing to get so out of shape to get big. i reached a weight but had too much fat so now im at te origional weight i was when i started training but less bf% so imo progress

lost = there is a massive difference im sure between the science of the training im sure but you still have not awnsered my question are you a kickboxer? there is also a massive difference between the theory and use of a topic. im not pro or semi atm ill be on a uni team that spends most their time drinking and eating ****.

the reason i am following a bb routine and diet is as that is the most efficient way to gain lean weight? no? as for the kickboxing that training is my worry, i dont want to sound arrogant at it but im very confident about my ability and dont need advise for training on it. you are teling me train a different way for kickboxing, forget about kickboxing the reason i mentioned it is to explain why i needed to hit 170lbs not for advice on how to train for it, which is why im asking you if you have done kickboxing or are you trying to give me training advice from what you have read on the net? i have over 10 years kickboxing behind me, 3 years as a instructer and many fights still unbeaten inc national club junior champ when i was 16. so forgive me if i beleive i know beter how to train for kickboxing. for NOW i need to hit weight otherwise there will be no fights anyway as i wont be heavy enough

is bb the most efficent way to gain lean weight? forget the kickboxing i can train myself with that, i havent done badly at it so far


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> lost = there is a massive difference im sure between the science of the training im sure but you still have not awnsered my question are you a kickboxer?


No but as a fitness professional I have trained more than you will probably ever meet in terms of conditioning.



> there is also a massive difference between the theory and use of a topic. im not pro or semi atm ill be on a uni team that spends most their time drinking and eating ****.


No there is isnt once its in place



> the reason i am following a bb routine and diet is as that is the most efficient way to gain lean weight? no?


You have not even read what I have written, Bodybuilding training is nonspecific hypertrophy which serves no purpose to what you are wanting to do...so no, you are wrong again



> as for the kickboxing that training is my worry, i dont want to sound arrogant at it but im very confident about my ability and dont need advise for training on it.


You may know how to spar, you may know the techniques involved in punching, kicking and when you are in the ring but you have zero understanding of conditioning, strength training and nutrition, your posts demonstrate that



> you are teling me train a different way for kickboxing, forget about kickboxing the reason i mentioned it is to explain why i needed to hit 170lbs not for advice on how to train for it, which is why im asking you if you have done kickboxing or are you trying to give me training advice from what you have read on the net?


I am starting to get very annoyed with your lack of knowledge yet trying to question others when i have clearly laid out the difference to you. If you would like to come along, away from your PC and discuss this i am more than happy to do so. None of what I have posted has come from the net, its years of study



> i have over 10 years kickboxing behind me, 3 years as a instructer and many fights still unbeaten inc national club junior champ when i was 16. so forgive me if i beleive i know beter how to train for kickboxing. for NOW i need to hit weight otherwise there will be no fights anyway as i wont be heavy enough


You are small because you have fcuk all appreciation of diet and weight training to suit *KICKBOXING*

You are talking about a skill you are good at, kickboxing is a skill, its a sport where coordination, tactics and fight abiltiy comes in. This is a trait some have and are not strong, you can be a taleneted boxer at 6 that doesnt measn

1 you have a clue on how to train outside the ring

2 you will be good at 21 when people have caught up with you

bottom line, you can get by on skill in kickboxing, its a martial art, and raw talent can win at school boy level



> is bb the most efficent way to gain lean weight? forget the kickboxing i can train myself with that, i havent done badly at it so far


for the last time

*NO*

*NO *

*NO *

*NO*

You are not undertsanding my posts which means you cannot debate this as you arent even aware of different forms of hypertrophy. You havent done badly at the skill but have fcuk all in terms of weight...why? beacuse you have no idea on how to train OUTSIDE THE RING, let me say that one more time..OUTSIDE THE RING and you have no idea how to eat.

Now how far do you want to go down this line?


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

id appreiciate all the help i can get of you and/or anyone else but

genuine questions and app the help( my knowledge of it is after the question.

what is the difference between eating for bb and eating for kickboxing ( WHEN I AM STILL LOOKING TO GAIN ) ??? --- both need a cal surplus, need plenty protien.

what is the difference in lifting for bb and lifting for gaining weight as a kickboxer? ---(well first off i never said i was training like a bb you did i never knew i was) i will for both, lift heavy on compound exercises except for kickboxing im not bothered about my waist size lol ( meaning with muscle not in the fat terms )

i know what you are saying about training for kickboxing , but (another gen question)

to gain weight For kickboxing , do i not need to lift eavy , enough to work the muscle and eat plenty protien to grow.

oh and about the whole being good at young level but what now, ill be fine lol i was fighting the top lads at my club who were much older and beaten them. plus although the last couple yeah been patchy for consistant training (ie 3-5 times per week) i have still kept on top of it.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

First lot of reading, I assume you are aware of the Gracie dynasty in martial arts circles?

http://www.efnsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1204.msg6503#msg6503


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

thanks for the link ill get reading and then im sure you will be ready for some quick fire questions lol?


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Fire them all you like my friend, in fact you can phone me and fire them if you want answers away from a PC


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

that would be good but unfortunatley i havent got acces to a phne at the moment, my dad works away and no-one is allowed on the phone incase he calls lol and i have just got rid of my mobile( was a major stress)

anyway , that was a good read and reps for the link! but a few quesions hahaha

they guy in the link says he has been training twice per week and doing mma, but im currently not doing kickboxing as it isnt on untill sept now so , would you think i would still have to drop to only 2 sessions as the guy says it is because he hasnt got the time to recover where as i have.

the exersices he has mentioned is what i have aimed my programme n anyway, is there a major difference in that to a bb routine.

am i right on the diet then ? excess cals , plenty protien ?

in all honesty ( this might show some lack of training knowledge but) his routine seems pretty close to a bb one, except he trains 2 x per week.

it has plenty compound lifts, but also imo his quote about him powering trough the up sector on each lift' isnt that dangerous?

thanks w


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

warren_1987 said:


> that would be good but unfortunatley i havent got acces to a phne at the moment, my dad works away and no-one is allowed on the phone incase he calls lol and i have just got rid of my mobile( was a major stress)
> 
> anyway , that was a good read and reps for the link! but a few quesions hahaha
> 
> ...


Nah thats BS, you should be explosive in the the positive part of the rep and resist against the negative. thats the best way to get explosive strenght & muscle size increase. Thats how its done in DC.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

> in all honesty ( this might show some lack of training knowledge but) his routine seems pretty close to a bb one, except he trains 2 x per week.


Ok, next bit of homework,

Look at his rep range, look at the choice of tempto,then look at power cleans

Then find that matched in a bodybuilding plan.

Then go back to what i wrote about functional and non functional hypertrophy.



> am i right on the diet then ? excess cals , plenty protien ?


One step at a time, we can address that when you understand what and why on weights


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

cool mate thanks for all the help, and also thanks wogi for explaining that it ain dangerous i was just wondering. ill head off now for a bit of reading and pop bac on later.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

ok, i have been aving a read about and this was a decent read,

http://www.ericcressey.com/functionalseven.html

ok so i figure there are a few differences in the bb routine to a functional routine like that, being

rep range - bb routine ususally use around the 8-12 range to concentrate soley on size where as a functional routine as shown is more in the 6-8 range so that size and strength is consided for function.

splits - funtion routines avoid splits as it forces to train to often and less intensity than is needed for whatever the persons function (sport) is.

function routines concentrate on comp lifts that need the full body to perform the lift so its better transfered to the sport ie bi curls arnt going to help any sport really?

they were the main points i picked up from that read, and starting to figure i might be wrong in training for size alone, i was going to do a gvt routine to try pack on mass by sept concentrating on comp lifts , i tought it would help with size but also endurance.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Kinda but still not understanding the bottom line warren

Bodybuilding training = non specific hypertrophy, its big muscles that serve fcuk all purpose, nothing, they are there to look big

Sports specific weight training = specific hypertrophy, rational hypertrophy, making muscle more efficient at doing the TASK YOU WANT THEM TO DO, which is kick boxing. So its strength, explosive power, its clean and press, not isolated crap to gain size and yes 6-8 reps is specific but less epecific to martial arts training, its generally lower, so go back and read that link I gave you

so yes you are getting there but now its time to search for a plan which fits your goals which are:

Become a good kickboxer

Gain weight

that means eating like a kick boxer wanting to gain weight, weight trainin maybe twice a week and then doing *ALL* THE STUFF YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE GOOD AT AND I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT - thats in the ring, sparring, pad work, foot work etc etc

that you will know far more about than I as i have zero interest in it.

Now we have that sorted look for some specific training plans and then you can move on to how to eat and again its nothing like a bodybuilder

the rep range will be lower than those stated and at times much higher


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hi mate i have been rading round and read on a different site that if trying to gain wilst off season then its best to keep away frm explosive power routines.

im findng it very hard to put a programe together using low rep ranges but aimed for hypertrophy, iim just struggleing to get my head round it all. i know the theory of , functional muscle rather than just for sow but i dont understand why rep ranges vary? i can understand why certain exersices are not needed but not the rep range thing? any elp?


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

I think your worrying about it far too much. To be fair I did the same thing when i first started.

Follow these and you will gain

#1 eat well - A simple diet can be found here.

#2 Train - Just get in a gym and lift weights, don't worry too much about it imo

#3 Sleep and rest - important for recovery

If you want to loose some fat just be sure to eat low fat foods and add in some cardio post workout sessions.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> hi mate i have been rading round and read on a different site that if trying to gain wilst off season then its best to keep away frm explosive power routines.
> 
> im findng it very hard to put a programe together using low rep ranges but aimed for hypertrophy, iim just struggleing to get my head round it all. i know the theory of , functional muscle rather than just for sow but i dont understand why rep ranges vary? i can understand why certain exersices are not needed but not the rep range thing? any elp?


why are you trying to put a plan together? why not just one already done. If you dont have the knowledge on what to do, suck eggs, run it, gain experience, read while you are training and then you can design your own


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Liam said:


> I think your worrying about it far too much. To be fair I did the same thing when i first started.
> 
> Follow these and you will gain
> 
> ...


None of this is of worth though my friend, read the thread.

Why eat low fat foods to lose fat?

What you have said is exactly what I am saying not to do. It holds no value for someone who is not bodybuilding

I appreciate you are trying to help but read the thread rather than giving a generic response and please dont advise low fat foods to lose bodyfat


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

ok so ill try find one that has already been put together,


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> ok so ill try find one that has already been put together,


correct, if you go to karaoke do you say 'let me write a song and then i will sing' ?

No you pick robbie williams, angels, sound a tw4t and then develop over time


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

actually i like to think my voice and version of angels is like listening to the live show hahaha, hol in 2 weeks time tenarife beter be ready for me and the karaoke


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Warren is only young and probably not 100% what path (training wise) he wants to go down for the long run. From what I can see he wants to gain some muscle, drop the bf % while maintaining his fitness and ability at kickboxing.

If he continues his kickboxing training, but adds an effective weight training course in, upping his calories to make up for that, will he not gain muscle mass?

Keeping his diet strict with the correct protein, carbs and essential fats his bf will drop?

I suggested eating low fat foods, I didn't meaning not including fat in the diet just not going over board. 5-15g per meal I aim for.

Thats what I would try, to begin with anyway, see how the body responds and then maybe change accordingly.

I'm sure everything I have said will be shot down. Accompanied by a slide show proving I am an ape man.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Liam said:


> Warren is only young and probably not 100% what path (training wise) he wants to go down for the long run. From what I can see he wants to gain some muscle, drop the bf % while maintaining his fitness and ability at kickboxing.
> 
> If he continues his kickboxing training, but adds an effective weight training course in, upping his calories to make up for that, will he not gain muscle mass?
> 
> ...


Read the entire thread again


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Lost Soul said:


> Read the entire thread again


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think what brother lost is saying is something like this.

You need to do something that will compliment what your goals are, example kick boxing.

I know sprinters want to be fast and powerful without the extra bulk associated with alot of extra nonfunctional muscle. After all they need to move that extra weight regardless if it is fat or muscle.

Sprinters would do something like clean and jerks, this offers explosive power (similar to a sprinter comming out of the blocks full throttle), stamina (if you ever have done these you would know they wind the hell out of you), and CNS stimulation.

Great exercise and it will hit the whole body.

I doubt a sprinter would be interested in building up the chest like lets say bunch press.

I am no fighter so I could only guess the rep ranges and exercises that would aid in hand speed along with power.

A good fighter will have good hand speed, great eye to hand coordination, have lots of stamina and good conditioning.

Any workout routine should compliment this.

I probably didnt explain that very well.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Liam said:


> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Prime example

With all due respect too many people give generic advice which is not applicable

Bodybuilding and kickboxing have very little in common when it comes to training and nutrition.

People seem to simply prescribe bodybuilding diets and training when its complelty unsuitable

i asked how serious he was about kickboxing, he said he was, i have since stated that he needs to move away from reading about training for aesthetics and start training and eating for a sport.

People don't read threads and dish out a one size fits all bodybuilding plan. Thats fine if thats the persons goal but it isnt here


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

hackskii said:


> I think what brother lost is saying is something like this.
> 
> You need to do something that will compliment what your goals are, example kick boxing.
> 
> ...


correct scott

Its like a plumber going onto a website full of electricians saying he needs tools to do a job and people just saying "get a screwdriver, and sparkies kit and you are good to go"

No mention of any plumbing kit, just the 'one size fits' all

Weight training is not universal

diets are specific]

get the correct tools to do a job


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

I didn't dish out a bodybuilding plan, I suggested that he added some weight sessions around his kickboxing will help building some muscle, which he said he wanted to. I also said changing his diet a little to help him lower his bodyfat, which he also said he wanted to.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Liam said:


> I didn't dish out a bodybuilding plan, I suggested that he added some weight sessions around his kickboxing will help building some muscle, which he said he wanted to. I also said changing his diet a little to help him lower his bodyfat, which he also said he wanted to.


But the following post shows you have not understood where this debate has evolved and there are no kickboxing diets I know of on this site, most are bodybuilding which are unsuitable. there are nor kickboxing weights sessions here either



Liam said:


> I think your worrying about it far too much. To be fair I did the same thing when i first started.
> 
> Follow these and you will gain
> 
> ...


This info is fine for a lad just starting out training and TBh I think *some* of it is good info but it just demostrates this nature of people just saying 'all training is just training'

Its not, hence the links i have posted and the theories behind training and eating for purpose


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

I can see your points, perhaps I am using my situation and its effecting what i'm saying.

It depends what warren means when he says he is serious about kicking boxing.

I mean..

I am serious about football, I love it, I play in a team, train regularly, generally will play football whenever I want and want to be the best I can be.

However I still follow a pretty big bodybuilding life, I eat similar to a bodybuilder and train like one(in the gym).

If warren is deadly serious about kickboxing then i would question why he is on a bodybuilding forum and not a kickboxing one, of course it will be very difficult to find proper training and diet that he should be following. However if he is 'serious' about kick boxing but would also like to put some muscle on for reasons other than smacking someone in the face harder then there must be some ways this forum can help.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Liam said:


> I can see your points, perhaps I am using my situation and its effecting what i'm saying.


Correct, one size doesnt fit all, its goal specific. What you have said fits with general weight training,just not this situation



> If warren is deadly serious about kickboxing then i would question why he is on a bodybuilding forum and not a kickboxing one


correct again and whilst we welcome people here its what i have been trying to tell him for the last 4-5 pages

specificity is key. I can help RE kickboxing weights and food but you have to know what the goal is


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hey guys, still dont get the multi quote hahah so

liami first came on here when i had stopped kb and was in a bit of a shambles with my life and although my goals will change with time i stook around for the craick on here, when im in the house that is.

lost - hey man , i have just had a fax from my old instructer in america he said he will get in touch properly when my dad is home lol he knows the score with me mam and phone, but has asked me to ask you why do i need explosive strength for a sport were i am not allowed to hold, and he said it may affect punch power slightly but shouldnt as my technique is already spot on. his words however he did say i was a plonker for eating like a bb and said he imagines im fat now as he also agrees i have no idea on training but am los without him lol.

oh and i have asked him to try get on here but he says he will try but is hecktic as e hasnt settled yet.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

ok , sorry i havent posted in this topic for a while i have been busy, but have been reading into varous ''functional'' routines and what i seem to have picked up is that most of the routines seperate the days into different needs, as such

mon - low reps heavy - strength

wed - explosive training , clean jerks, snatches etc

fri - high reps med weight - endurance and conditioning

after reading about a few forums for mma and various sports to see how they do it i have read if they are looking to gain then they just increase kcal intake and change 1 of the days to a hypertrophy specific day. but i also get the feeling that their is no correct programme but most do what works for them, making it hard for me to choose a programme

as for diet they seem to just keep it to a simplicity of not gaining eat - gaining toomuch fat eat less . however i cannot see if there is any specific diets for a fighter


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

ok its took a while but finally have a plan, what you think of this one

Mon:

Squats 4x5

Standing Press 4x5

Bent Over Barbell Row 4x5

Farmers Walk (one time)

Bent Legged Sit-ups 2x8-15

Auxilary Work for neck, biceps or calves (optional)

Tues: some form of conditioning

Wed: some form of conditioning

Thurs: off

Fri:

Deadlift, Stiff-Legged Deadlift 4x5 or Power Clean, Power Pull, Power Snatch 5x3

Bench Press (barbell or dumbbell) or Floor Press 4x5

Sandbag Walk (one time)

Side Bends 2x8-15

Auxilary Work for neck, biceps or calves (optional)

Sat: Swim

Sun: off

so much reading i have done on this but hard to get things to stick lol especialy as im in middle of reading for me degree. i was giving this one by a fellow on ross enamaits website but think i will change the days to wed off and not turs as i have a busy day on weds at uni


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

Interesting how much you have learnt in this thread, myself also, so big thanks to Lostsoul for pushing the issue.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah , thanks lost for that the more i have been reading on the functional training issue the more i prefer it ( in theory not trie yet ) to bb routines. although i stil cnt give my instructer (ex) a awnser to why i would need it, but im looking to join bjj also so it will defo come in handy. i think its less to do with reps and sets for te kickboxing side and alot more to do with diet and conditioning wilst trying to gain.


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## nowatchamacalit (Jun 12, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> yeah mate, why you ask?
> 
> left my coach otlong ago after a long time. he has moved to usa but i have spoke to uni team and trainer reckons if im as good as i reckon the i should walk on the team. but 10 lbs is a hell of a jump . at the moment im under my norm fighting weight of 170lbs but hope to get to it and in much better condioning. but had fair few fights and not beaten so fairly serious, wouldnt mind giving semi pro a go when i have been back to training for a while maybee 18 month - 2 years realistically to get back into fighting form and get a good 5-10 bouts again


Don't take this as an attack on you, it sounds like you are serious and you say you have ten years experience, however,

My experience of university boxing clubs is that they are low standard.

Maybe the standard of uni kickboxing is higher.

If the uni boxing/proper club dichotomy applies to kickboxing, I would recommend going to train outside of the uni at a local club, at a more serious level.

My experience of uni boxing teams is that any humpty dumpty gets to fight. Not saying this is you, just the state of uni boxing.

I started boxing at uni and quit the club because I was learning nothing with other students.

Maybe the standard of kickboxing at uni is higher.

When I joined an amateur club outside of the uni, which harvested one or two professionals every couple of years, I progressed approximately 1000% more quickly.

I wouldn't recommend stopping for three months during the summer.

Good you listened to the guys on this thread when they were talking about specificity for your sport. They genuinely know what they are talking about. I wish I knew people like that when I was younger, I tore a bicep trying to be a bodybuilding boxer.


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Its exactly the same at uni Judo, totally ****e!


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## nowatchamacalit (Jun 12, 2008)

Liam said:


> Its exactly the same at uni Judo, totally ****e!


lol the good thing about the uni clubs though is all the friendly ladies you meet!


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

hi mate the uni club is ran by a outside club, by the guy who trains the police up here, so his club outside uni is higly regarded, however you are right on the standard of fighters imo they look ****e poor form little knowlage and less heart but it is cheaper for me to join through uni and then train at his club aswell so that i get the price from my uni club BUT also the better training although will have to train at the uni aswell but hey too much training doesnt count in kickboxing. and dont worry no personal attack taken lol. i have been trainging b=mysef in my own space with my own equipment and lucky for me i used to instruct so i know the sylabus lol.

thanks for the input, while im here i may as well mention, the weight div are slightly different than i though , dont know if its just the uni but the alow fights at 165lbs so i dont have as much of a weight gain ahead.


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## nowatchamacalit (Jun 12, 2008)

warren_1987 said:


> hi mate the uni club is ran by a outside club, by the guy who trains the police up here, so his club outside uni is higly regarded, however you are right on the standard of fighters imo they look ****e poor form little knowlage and less heart but it is cheaper for me to join through uni and then train at his club aswell so that i get the price from my uni club BUT also the better training although will have to train at the uni aswell but hey too much training doesnt count in kickboxing. and dont worry no personal attack taken lol. i have been trainging b=mysef in my own space with my own equipment and lucky for me i used to instruct so i know the sylabus lol.
> 
> thanks for the input, while im here i may as well mention, the weight div are slightly different than i though , dont know if its just the uni but the alow fights at 165lbs so i dont have as much of a weight gain ahead.


Well good luck in the future! Hope you make it to semi-pro and beyond.


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