# Reps vs Weight..?



## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi all,

I've always gone for the 6-8 reps rule with generally every body part on advice from experienced bodybuilders in my gym. Recently though I've managed to confuse myself by what other people have said, and even more now because I read one of Ronnie Coleman's books which suggested 12-15 reps :confused1: Now, I've always thought for getting big, you lift 6-8 reps and 10-15 was more toning? Could someone clear this up as something so small is driving me nuts now on how many reps I sould be doing!

Another thing is lifting/adding on more weight. I find myself stuck on a certain weight which seems like forever! But I feel if I go any heavier it is too much for me. I know I need to add more weight to get the muscle growing again, but of course adding more weight means doing less reps. Is this ok to do when you're adding more weight? Is there a minimum amont of reps I should be doing when shocking the muscle?

Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

Hypertrophy occurs at high rep range.


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## s&amp;ccoach (May 18, 2011)

But there are many different ways to overload the muscle.

I personally my first exercise normally compound is 4 sets of 6 reps. Following exercises are all 4 sets of 10 reps. Final exercise may be a drop set.

You need to experiment some people say strength comes with size and others say size comes with strength.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

There is no toning unless you are a musical instrument - that is a ladies phrase designed by infomecricals and magazines - there is simply fat and lean and the balance in between.

Research suggests that a basis of 6-12repetitions is optimal for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (basically what a bodybuilder has) and 1-5 for myofribrillar hypertrophy (a dense functional muscle such as powerlifters and strongmen have).

If you are after pure size sarcoplasmic is far superior and the rep ranges you are working in is fine, but by all means play around.

Big Ron may have mentioned 12-15 reps - but look at his vids of him banging out super heavy low reps too. Common sense suggests if you are not a pro and after a bit of it all then heavy low rep compounds followed by some higher rep isolation or muscle 'feeling'stuff will sort you out just fine.


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## DJay (Feb 6, 2011)

The way i see it mate there is 4 different types of training.

1-3-5 reps strength training

5-8 strength/ size training

8-12 size training

13 + your basically doing cardio unless its drop sets or something

'Toning' is a word made up for personal trainers to sell something that doesnt exist to their clients.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

I spoke to ronnie colman himself this year at bodypower expo and he said he hardly ever goes under 10 reps, if your doing high reps IMO aslong as the "INTENSITY" is there and you go to failiour you are overloading your muscles, The advantage of higher reps is also you can controle the weight properly giving a perfect form and squeeze on evey rep.

Heavy sets have there place too in certan compound movements, I reccon best to mix it up then you get type 1 and type 2 muscle fibres


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## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

s&ccoach said:


> But there are many different ways to overload the muscle.
> 
> I personally my first exercise normally compound is 4 sets of 6 reps. Following exercises are all 4 sets of 10 reps. Final exercise may be a drop set.
> 
> You need to experiment some people say strength comes with size and others say size comes with strength.


Thanks for the quick reply mate.

That's interesting, but still baffles me a bit as I've always heard 10+ range is more toning..?

Edit: Thanks fellas for all the replies!


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

The other benifit of a higher rep range is that it stretches the muscle facia allowing for more growth.


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## DJay (Feb 6, 2011)

Also remember what works for a pro is completely different than what works for most of us amatures and intermediates.

The pros eat, sleep and breath the lifestyle, they take very high levels of steroids, eat ridiculous levels of calories, sleep loads train extremely hard.

Compare it to a sport like motorsport. You dont say i want to be a raceing driver so im gonna start practicing in an F1 car, you start with simplar cars easier to manage and over the years when you understand more about the sport you increase the complexity of your training.

I would recomend any newbie to start with strength straining. 'Linier 5x5' or 'Starting Strength'


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Train thru the rep ranges man by increasing weight each set, this way you will get the best of both.... kinda like Hovis


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> The other benifit of a higher rep range is that it stretches the muscle facia allowing for more growth.


I would like to see the evidence for that, sounds like broscience to me (no offence).


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

I use 8-12 reps, works better for me. Have tried everything over the years. Low reps, 5x5, not my cup of tea, although occasionally pyramid up to single rep.


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## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

DJay said:


> Also remember what works for a pro is completely different than what works for most of us amatures and intermediates.
> 
> The pros eat, sleep and breath the lifestyle, they take very high levels of steroids, eat ridiculous levels of calories, sleep loads train extremely hard.
> 
> ...


Cheers mate. All this is a big help!

I'm not a newie, I've just managed to confuse myself by what everyone has been saying to me :laugh:

Regarding the adding on more weight for muscle shock, is 6 reps ok then still? And I'm guessing keep on that weight untill I'm able to do a few more reps with it? Concentration curls for example, I've been stuck on a certain weight for what seems like forever! And I've just added more weight but can only get about 6 out of it.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Everyone's body is different though, 10 reps for one man might be considerd working to failure but rep 5 on another man might be considerd failure. You need to experiment in the gym IMO and find out what works for you, for me what works is first set 10-12, then 8-10 and 6-8 i pyramid the weight down not up.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Afghan said:


> then 8-10 and 6-8 i pyramid the weight down not up.


But pyramids are built 'UP'


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Johnnythebull said:


> Another thing is lifting/adding on more weight. I find myself stuck on a certain weight which seems like forever! But I feel if I go any heavier it is too much for me. *I know I need to add more weight to get the muscle growing again*, but of course adding more weight means doing less reps. Is this ok to do when you're adding more weight? Is there a minimum amont of reps I should be doing when shocking the muscle?


This is not strictly true. There are lots of things you could try, the most basic one being to deloading for a bit. Drop the weight by 20% or so for a couple of sessions and then build it back up over three to for sessions and then see if you increase it the following one.



Johnnythebull said:


> That's interesting, but still baffles me a bit as I've always heard 10+ range is more toning..?


Just what is this 'toning' that you speak of?


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

Johnnythebull said:


> Thanks for the quick reply mate.
> 
> That's interesting, but still baffles me a bit as I've always heard 10+ range is more toning..?
> 
> Edit: Thanks fellas for all the replies!


I don't really believe in certain reps for ''toning''.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

MattGriff said:


> But pyramids are built 'UP'


Pyramids were built by aliens


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Breda said:


> Train thru the rep ranges man by increasing weight each set, this way you will get the best of both.... kinda like Hovis


this is what i base all my compound lifts around...

7 sets starting at 15 reps weight going upand reps coming down.. works a treat so reps are 15,12,10,8,6,4,2 wilst increasing weight all way through !!


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

2004mark said:


> This is not strictly true. There are lots of things you could try, the most basic one being to deloading for a bit. Drop the weight by 20% or so for a couple of sessions and then build it back up over three to for sessions and then see if you increase it the following one.
> 
> *Just what is this 'toning' that you speak of*?


You beat me to it mate


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

flinty90 said:


> this is what i base all my compound lifts around...
> 
> 7 sets starting at 15 reps weight going upand reps coming down.. works a treat so reps are 15,12,10,8,6,4,2 wilst increasing weight all way through !!


7 set? fkin roid freak


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

2004mark said:


> Just what is this 'toning' that you speak of?


This is a term used by fat ladies when trying to describe a type of light activity that they wont do


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## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

hendrix said:


> You beat me to it mate


Well what I thought it was was not getting huge, but basically getting more in shape....It seems reading a few replies it's more of a myth.

Thanks for all the replies. I will try a few different things in the next couple of weeks.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Afghan said:


> 7 set? fkin roid freak


well yeah but no mate lol..

at the end of the day doing it the way i do it...

i get the both world scenario heavy weight and plenty of reps..

also by lowering reps and upping weight in this way (only for compound lifts) by the time you have got to your 6 rep set and weight is quite high your already really warm and minimise risk of injury...

This system i have also found blasts through plateaus aswell...

ROB has been training with me for 4 weeks in this way, he has battered 5 pb's already and his lifting is going from strentgh to strength, so i know it works...

but yes there is always more than 1 way to skin a cat !!!


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Johnnythebull said:


> Well what I thought it was was not getting huge, but basically getting more in shape....It seems reading a few replies it's more of a myth.
> 
> Thanks for all the replies. I will try a few different things in the next couple of weeks.


"tone" is just a sh!t word mate, define is better. PLus you cant "tone" or define a muscle, definition comes with low body fat levels


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## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

Breda said:


> This is a term used by *fat ladies* when trying to describe a type of light activity that they wont do


 :nono: You've got to use the correct term....a Grenade


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Johnnythebull said:


> :nono: You've got to use the correct term....a Grenade


I was trying to be pc but You haven't used the correct term either.... Its land mine


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

A few things to remember:

a) your muscles can't count

B) train with intensity - if you stall on a certain weight for certain reps and feel the intensity wasn't there then change things next time

c) There is not one set rule - people are different and so are your individual body parts


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## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

Breda said:


> I was trying to be pc but You haven't used the correct term either.... Its land mine


Haha my bad! You're right mate!


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2011)

In the big three I normally pyramid upto a double and then do a back of set that I can get 12 with if I nearly kill myself. All assistance excercises are 8-15 reps as that is where hypertrophy occurs. Can't go far wrong with that. Basically at our level there's no need to overcomplicate things


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## Johnnythebull (Sep 1, 2009)

This was quite an interesing read but probably what 99% of you all knew anyway!

http://www.endlesshumanpotential.com/muscular-hypertrophy.html

Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy - So 8-12 reps is generally bigger muscle, Bodybuilders reps.

Myofibrillar Hypertrophy - 3-7 reps More strength for weight lifters etc.


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