# anyone self medicate t3?



## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

i'm really p1ssed off. over the course of 6 weeks it seems as though I've only managed to lose 2KG. I've been eating 300 calories under maintenance as well as doing 200-300 calories worth of cardio with every gym session. Surely this is not normal unless I'm putting on muscle at the same time which seems unlikely as I'm a natural... I am so frickin tempted to buy some T3 to help me with this as I have hypothyroidism (diagnosed a few weeks ago) but it's going to take me a fair few months to be seen by an endocrinologist and have my dosage of T4 adjusted... haven't even been prescribed anything yet. What would you guys do if you were me?


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

If you have hypothyroidism, I'd leave your medication to the doctors

If you start self-medicating thyroid medication, then you get called in for routine bloods, and they see your numbers all over the place... they will assume that they have not got your medication right and will be altering the dose to fit the range levels


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

Echo said:


> If you have hypothyroidism, I'd leave your medication to the doctors
> 
> If you start self-medicating thyroid medication, then you get called in for routine bloods, and they see your numbers all over the place... they will assume that they have not got your medication right and will be altering the dose to fit the range levels


Yeah fair point but tbh i think thats going to take months and i feel like sh1t, do you know how long it would take after coming off t3 for levels to regulate again?


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## Toad1977 (Jan 11, 2013)

i got stuck in a rut a then started using the my fitness pal app to log the food i was eating and it was a good way to adjust my diet. before you start jumping on anything


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

troponin said:


> Yeah fair point but tbh i think thats going to take months and i feel like sh1t, do you know how long it would take after coming off t3 for levels to regulate again?


Depends how long really and it's quite person dependent. It's usually between 2-6 weeks, but 6 weeks is usually for when people have been on for years


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

Toad1977 said:


> i got stuck in a rut a then started using the my fitness pal app to log the food i was eating and it was a good way to adjust my diet. before you start jumping on anything


Thats what ive been using for the past few months to track my macros mate. I log everything i eat.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Why not try Clen instead?


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

Echo said:


> Why not try Clen instead?


Don't really fancy it mate. The sides seem to outweigh benefits to me. Racing heartrate, jitters and possible ventricular hypertrophy. Id rather stay with a shot thyroid lol. I have considered it though.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

What are your FT4 levels (and FT3 if you have it)?

I have been hypo many times and it did not make as much difference to energy balance / lipolysis as some people say, unless they are really below range.

Ideally you should reduce calories further and wait until your next endo appointment instead of self medicating. Dialling in T4 dosage correctly is important to quality of life.


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

SK50 said:


> What are your FT4 levels (and FT3 if you have it)?
> 
> I have been hypo many times and it did not make as much difference to energy balance / lipolysis as some people say, unless they are really below range.
> 
> Ideally you should reduce calories further and wait until your next endo appointment instead of self medicating. Dialling in T4 dosage correctly is important to quality of life.


Dont have them onhand mate. Due to be tested. The doc only ordered TSH which was abnormal and given my family history gave a dignosis. Im assuming the endo will do the ft3 and ft4 tests. Will probably drop cals by another 100 or so and reasses in a few weeks.


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

Hang on hang on just stop all the nonsense with clen and t3... jeez - this is why silly people mess themselves up; if you can't get your dieting down to a T and learn exactly how your body behaves and how to manipulate your diet and exercise in order to achieve your goals first... (before thinking about messing with your hormones,) you're only going to find yourself in a downward spiral of confusion and physiological downregulation.

Firstly... how long have you been dieting? What are your macro ratios? What is your calorie intake? Is your cardio LISS?

I'm assuming that your cardio is LISS by the sounds of it; your metabolic rate adapts to low intensity exercise over time; this is why you can very well reach a plateau regardless of those hours you spend slaving away in that so called fat burning zone. Soon, you'll be disappointed to find out that your body just needs all that LISS cardio just to maintain. Not ideal.

Also, what are your stats?


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

kristina said:


> Hang on hang on just stop all the nonsense with clen and t3... jeez - this is why silly people mess themselves up; if you can't get your dieting down to a T and learn exactly how your body behaves and how to manipulate your diet and exercise in order to achieve your goals first... (before thinking about messing with your hormones,) you're only going to find yourself in a downward spiral of confusion and physiological downregulation.
> 
> Firstly... how long have you been dieting? What are your macro ratios? What is your calorie intake? Is your cardio LISS?
> 
> ...


Been dieting going on 6 weeks now (my first proper cut finding it pretty hard). Calorie intake is 2200 40% protein 40% carbs 20% fats - I track everything I eat via myfitnesspal. Cardio is LISS yes, treadmill on full incline set to a brisk walking speed, heartrate is always 130bpm+. I'm 171lbs at the moment at 20% bf height is 5'10 not sure if thats of any help. I also run a 5x day split. Cardio end of every session

Cheers.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

troponin said:


> Dont have them onhand mate. Due to be tested. The doc only ordered TSH which was abnormal and given my family history gave a dignosis. Im assuming the endo will do the ft3 and ft4 tests. Will probably drop cals by another 100 or so and reasses in a few weeks.


Ok. So unfortunately you don't know for certain yet how hypo you are until you get the FT4 bloods (FT3 if you are lucky with UK endos). But, don't blame inability to lose fat on your thyroid just yet.

I have had thyroid disease for years and have screwed around with T4 and T3 use/abuse. On reflection, I recommend against it. It just confuses the situation.

For peace of mind, you could always push the GP for T4 test if you feel it's affecting quality of life, or get tests privately.


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

troponin said:


> Been dieting going on 6 weeks now (my first proper cut finding it pretty hard). Calorie intake is 2200 40% protein 40% carbs 20% fats - I track everything I eat via myfitnesspal. Cardio is LISS yes, treadmill on full incline set to a brisk walking speed, heartrate is always 130bpm+. I'm 171lbs at the moment at 20% bf height is 5'10 not sure if thats of any help. I also run a 5x day split. Cardio end of every session
> 
> Cheers.


Okay great - so you've been running a 300kcal deficit for 6 weeks; here are a few suggestions I'd recommend for you; you can try utilising one of these "tools" at a time, or all 3... or stagger them as you reach plateaus.

The trick is to think wisely about the tools at your disposal; calorie intake, energy expenditure (training), and diet (macro) manipulation.

What I suggest to ramp things up; drop another 200 to make it a 500kcal deficit, which is a good target to aim for, which would be approximately 1lb of body fat per week.

Instead of LISS, try a couple or few HIT sessions instead; this will be far more effective for you and will also increase your metabolic rate. You will reap the benefits of the after burn, which can last a long time - even up to 24 hours. All you need is a good 15 minutes of HIT and you're good.

With regards to diet, you can try nutrient timing; carb back loading is a very effective protocol (in fact... have a read through the following thread where I've discussed carb back loading to a pretty thorough degree), it may help you if you're interested in trying it. It might work for you or it might not, but your best bet is to learn to play with the variables before trying to cut corners with things like t3 and clen.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=273444

Hope this helps!


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Sounds right tbh mate, 170lbs moderately active has a tdee of 2500kcals. That's including the cardio. So your just under eating by 300kcals which has achieved the correct rate of weight loss. Bump another 200 off if u want to lose a lb a week or even go to 1800 if u want 1.5lb. The bigger lads will eat more but 170lbs will be cutting on not much food to get really lean


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Struth.

170lb and eating 2200 cals and expecting to lose weight faster than 2kilos a week

my advice, throw away your apps and keep it simple.

Drop carbs down to fibrous only and up your protein intake.

1500 cals max.

Although at 20% bf at 5'10 theres not going to be a lot left when you get down to 8/10%


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Personally I find t3s useless for fat burning but know others who swear by them.


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

kristina said:


> Okay great - so you've been running a 300kcal deficit for 6 weeks; here are a few suggestions I'd recommend for you; you can try utilising one of these "tools" at a time, or all 3... or stagger them as you reach plateaus.
> 
> The trick is to think wisely about the tools at your disposal; calorie intake, energy expenditure (training), and diet (macro) manipulation.
> 
> ...


A 500 calorie deficit including cardio ontop of that, do you think I would be safe from catabolic effects? Also if I switch to HIIT should I be aiming for the same amount of calories as i did from LISS?

Cheers - some good stuff will make for a good read tonight in regards to carb loading.


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

banzi said:


> Struth.
> 
> 170lb and eating 2200 cals and expecting to lose weight faster than 2kilos a week
> 
> ...


Yeah I made the mistake of starting tubby and not caring about diet (used to train powerlifting style). I would say I'm reasonably strong for my weight (130KG squat, 170KG dead). Trying to get down to around 14% bodyfat and maintain/lean bulk from there on. Sack getting this fat again its way too much effort and dieting like this is like spinning my wheels. It's been 6 weeks by the way. So i've lost like 0.3kg per week lol.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I have been dieting 2 weeks with weekends off and have lost 9lb.

Its not that difficult.


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

banzi said:


> I have been dieting 2 weeks with weekends off and have lost 9lb.
> 
> Its not that difficult.


What kind of approach did you use and are you on any kind of anabolics?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I just go low cal low carb and am on test e 250mgs a week.


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

troponin said:


> A 500 calorie deficit including cardio ontop of that, do you think I would be safe from catabolic effects? Also if I switch to HIIT should I be aiming for the same amount of calories as i did from LISS?
> 
> Cheers - some good stuff will make for a good read tonight in regards to carb loading.


There's an ongoing debate about HIIT and LISS with regards to muscle-loss (which is better / which is worse etc etc..) - experts have been battling about it for years and still are! SO - muscle loss for YOU is the least of your worries; you have one goal to lose fat and you are GOING to lose muscle regardless; being in a calorie deficit. However, think about this:

You're at 20% BF and have quite a bit to lose. In your case, your goal is to get lean and you are going to lose muscle mass. Regardless. Right now, you're doing hours of cardio that is slowing your metabolism. You need to stop this.

On a side note, don't even bother counting the 'cardio calorie burning' - I won't go into detail about the reasons but it's redundant and shouldn't be something you bother calculating. You're only wasting your time.

Adding in a couple 15-minute HIIT sessions isn't going to suddenly degenerate your muscle mass by any considerable amount that is going to make or break your end results. You are going to lose muscle mass but think of it this way; would you suddenly get scared of doing an extra 15 minutes of high intensity weight training (i.e. squats or deadlifts) in the weight room just because of a fear of going 'catabolic'? (although this is redundant because you ARE effectively catabolic when training, that is the whole purpose of training, you can only be anabolic after inducing catabolism during training). - No... an extra few sessions of HIIT isn't going to eat away at you like a muscle-wasting disease. The metabolic *advantages* of HIIT will far outweigh your silly LISS nonsense that is only adapting your metabolism to the heightened level of activity just to maintain your body weight.

You have to weigh out the pros and the cons.

Now - this is only my opinion and some people may contest it... so indeed, make your own judgement but this is what I would personally do in your case.


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

I would add that any HIT training will be severely less catabolic than taking T3. IMHO id say HIT can be quite anabolic but that's just my experience.


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## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

kristina said:


> There's an ongoing debate about HIIT and LISS with regards to muscle-loss (which is better / which is worse etc etc..) - experts have been battling about it for years and still are! SO - muscle loss for YOU is the least of your worries; you have one goal to lose fat and you are GOING to lose muscle regardless; being in a calorie deficit. However, think about this:
> 
> You're at 20% BF and have quite a bit to lose. In your case, your goal is to get lean and you are going to lose muscle mass. Regardless. Right now, you're doing hours of cardio that is slowing your metabolism. You need to stop this.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thorough reply. I have switched to HIIT now 20 mins after each workout. According to the machine I am burning less cals but avg heart rate was much higher than liss and i felt as if I had done a lot more. Just going to ignore the calories on the machine then and continue with weekly weigh ins. Just need to figure out what works for my body and then in future the process should be a whole lot easier.


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