# DON'T DO AEROBICS!



## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

*I read the following article - and I was wondering what you guys think about it..... *

Weights build muscle. Aerobics burn fat. Right? Not necessarily. The standard thinking is aerobics are a necessary component for fat loss and cardiovascular health, but in my opinion, they're essentially just an ineffective form of exercise.

Aerobics will do next to nothing to alter one's appearance, yet people will include them because they're considered essential for providing a complete and balanced exercise program. That makes about as much sense as adding Styrofoam bricks while building a house because they provide a "different" form of support. They're only weaker.

No one wants to admit that they've wasted hours of time on something that has reaped no reward. It isn't unlike the gambler who continues to lose and lose because he's already invested so much money on trying to win. Sure, it's senseless. But humans also react out of emotion. Most serious exercise enthusiasts include aerobics in their program but no one knows why -- other than what they've heard. Now you'll hear something different.

MOVE MORE. LOOK THE SAME.

The first premise regarding the necessity of aerobic training that I'd like to take on is the "targeted heart rate" theory. The belief is that once the heart rate is elevated to 60% of its maximum potential for over 20 minutes, the body begins to burn fat. Makes sense. I guess. You'll sure be burning a whole lot of calories. But if this method is so effective, why is it that I see so many aerobic instructors who are obviously in great cardiovascular condition with big fat asses!?

The reason is simple. Once the body becomes accustomed to the demand that is being put on it, there is no reason to adapt. It's capable of performing the activity effectively. The only alternative would be to increase either the intensity or the duration, both of which are self-defeating. It's imperative to remember at all times that the body's number one function is survival. Your body doesn't give a damn about how you want it to look. It is a primitive and highly efficient organism that will use a multitude of resources to adapt to an almost limitless array of bombardment. Keeping that in mind, follow me on this next point.

A gram of fat consists of 9 energy units (calories). A gram of protein is 4 calories as is a gram of carbohydrate. Your body doesn't care if the fat is coming from your oblique or a stick of butter, it will use what is most readily available. When performing an activity that requires constant low level movement for over 20 minutes, what you are essentially doing is giving your body a command:

Must run...

Must keep moving...

The master demands I travel great distances...

Now, knowing the body is going to respond as efficiently as possible, it will then begin to drop weight, allowing it to perform the task at hand with greater ease. This is where the belief that aerobics are effective gets misconstrued.

If the body is going to take the path of least resistance (which is the only way it knows), will it use 9 energy units (fat calories) to drop a gram of weight or will it use 4 energy units (protein or carbohydrate calories) to drop a gram of weight? Of course, it will use only four! Would you pay nine dollars for something when you can get it for four? The first source of fuel is to use the stored carbohydrates. As long as carbs are present, there is little need to use fat. This is why it's preposterous to eat carbs in order to have the energy to run. It's like working at a job that pays just enough to pay the expenses of getting to and from work.

What happens once carbs are depleted? Now we enter the fat burning zone, don't we? Not so fast Sparky. It still has another 4 calorie per gram energy available -- protein. What's so bad about that? Well, just as the body doesn't discern where the fat comes from, it also doesn't know a protein molecule in a piece of steak from a protein molecule in a piece of human muscle tissue. The muscle on your body is a readily available source of energy just waiting to be used. So whenever you do aerobic activity, you're burning muscle -- like it or not.

"I'LL GET HEALTHY EVEN IF IT KILLS ME!"

Aerobics are an extremely damaging form of exercise, yet for some strange reason, the ability to withstand pain has become associated with athleticism. The epitome of withstanding punishment by way of aerobic overload is the marathon. The story behind the Marathon Run is based on an ancient Greek legend of the soldier, Pheldippides, who ran 26 miles to tell the emperor that their army was victorious in battle over the Persians. Then he dropped dead. (Let that be a lesson to you.)

What's interesting to note is, after a runner completes a marathon, the average weight loss is only four pounds. About three of those pounds are water which return the next day after the individual rehydrates. That leaves only one pound of actual weight loss. It's a fair bet that a good portion of that pound is muscle loss. That means the amount of fat utilized from running a marathon is only a few ounces. So, if it takes running consistently for 26 miles to burn a few ounces of fat, how much fat do you think you'll burn from running for 20 minutes? About as much as a couple of spoonfuls of oatmeal. You'd be better off not eating the extra oatmeal.

As much as I may admire the physical and mental toughness it takes to finish a marathon, it has little to do with one's health or appearance. It certainly won't enhance it. Proving how much punishment one can endure is so typical of the "weekend warrior" mentality. It may make for inspiring Gatorade ads, but the ability to tolerate damage is not a very accurate gauge of one's health or strength. If it were, then my friend Louie is a regular gold medal winner. He can sock away 12 beers and a pack of cigarettes in one sitting, sleep for 3 hours, eat a plate of french fries and do it again. That would kill me! I wouldn't say he was in better shape than I because of it; he's just able to tolerate this form of abuse better due to the fact he's built up a tolerance to it.

An activity such as running, besides being unnaturally stressing to the knees, ankles, and lower back, will also increase free radical damage due to the higher ingestion of oxygen. (Oxygen intake equals oxygenation) Let's not forget increased uptake of pollutants. If you're going to run, do it in a wooded area where the air is clean. I never fail to get a kick out of the people I see on the city streets, huffing and puffing, running in place as they wait for the light to change. Breathe deeply folks. Yep, take in that invigorating carbon monoxide. Oh look! A diesel engine truck is heading up the block! Don't want to miss the opportunity to suck in some of that.

THOSE ARE VERY NICE BREASTS YOU HAVE THERE SIR.

As most bodybuilders know, testosterone is a major factor in the success of everyone's training progress. Studies done on long distance runners have shown a severe depletion in testosterone levels. It stands to reason. Any long-term stressful condition will cause a severe drop in testosterone. Long duration stress is also extremely catabolic in that it overly taxes the endocrine system. This could lead to a slower metabolism -- just the thing you're looking for if a tighter body is your objective.

It's so ironic. People do these things in the name of health. How sad it is that running will not do what everyone is expecting it to do. It is NOT healthy. It will NOT increase your lifespan. It will NOT improve flexibility. It will NOT grow muscle. It will NOT strengthen your heart any more than weight training or even moderate exercise such as walking. It will NOT improve your appearance.

And most of all, it will NOT help you lose fat. You know what helps you lose fat? Eating less food. Try it and see.

Muscle is the key. Muscle is what keeps fat in check and aerobics won't help you build muscle.

Aerobics are good for one thing and one thing only:

They make you better at doing aerobics.

NOT CONVINCED? HERE'S MORE.

A while back, I was speaking at a seminar on training and sports conditioning. A student stated he made his best gains through weight training but was concerned about his cardiovascular ability when he tried to swim for the first time in years. He said he became quickly winded after only one lap. He then remained on a program of swimming every day and within a month he was able to swim ten laps.

"Mister Montana, with all due respect, doesn't that prove that aerobics improve cardio capability?" he asked.

The answer was no. And here's why.

I explained; How long did it take to complete that lap? A minute? Less? That doesn't fit the definition of "aerobic." What you did was push yourself to your cardiovascular limit in a short amount of time, which is considered an-aerobic. So why would engaging in an activity that only elevates heart rate for 20 minutes improve the ability to do something that requires maximum exertion for one minute? The reason the lap took so much effort was because the exertion was unfamiliar. Therefore, you didn't get better at swimming because your aerobic ability improved from swimming every day for a month. You simply became a better swimmer!"

The same goes for any activity. Even though yoga wouldn't be considered an aerobic activity, it can make you breathe harder if the strain is new to you. This is why alternating training stimulus is optimum for total conditioning.

THE HEART OF THE MATTER

All exercise works the heart. And in case you haven't heard, weight training is exercise. Which brings me to my next point. When I was studying to get my certification to be a personal trainer, there was a point where the instructor told the class that weight training will not improve one's cardiovascular condition, to which I just had to say, "excuse me?" "Um, professor. Are you suggesting that if you were to take a previously untrained individual and put him on a weight training regime for six months, that at the end of that time he would show no improvement in cardiovascular ability than from the day he started?" The instructor looked me square in the eye and said..."Yes."

I guess he's never done 20 rep sets of squats.

I'll bet my entire bank account (granted, not a very impressive wager) that high rep weight training will improve cardiac output as well, if not better than low intensity aerobics. Any takers?

The thing is this: The heart is a muscle and although cardiac muscle tissue is different from skeletal muscle tissue, there are similarities. All muscle becomes stronger through use. There is no evidence that the usage from an extended moderate activity increase is superior to the anaerobic version that weight training provides. Even the terms anaerobic and aerobic are misleading. They're essentially "made up" terminology which exercise practitioners have used and repeated throughout the years. Anaerobic means "without oxygen." Well, all exercise requires oxygen. Come to think of it, last I heard, everything outside of death requires oxygen.

Along the same lines one must realize, any activity will burn calories and induce weight loss, especially if the trainee is new to an exercise program. But even in the case of previously untrained subjects, aerobics are the least effective of all forms of exercise for fat loss. When it comes to calling on its energy resources, the body doesn't know if it's lifting a barbell or running on a treadmill. It's expending effort, burning calories and stressing the nervous system with both activities. Of course, cardio training is of a lower intensity and longer duration. That's exactly what makes it less effective. If low intensity, long duration burns fat (which it does) then all activity, short of being in a coma, will burn fat -- which it does -- just not enough to make a difference. Of course, keeping the rest period in between sets brief is the best fat burning tactic there is, yet people ignore it to ride a bike that doesn't go anywhere. Go figure.

A LOT OF HOT AIR

The increased oxygen intake for fat loss is based on elevating the heart rate and here's where the theory falls apart.

If you aren't in shape and you run a mile, your heart rate may go up to 200 BPM (Beats Per Minute). If you're in good condition, it may stay at about 100 BPM. So if an elevated heart rate and increased oxygen uptake is what burns fat, then only unconditioned people would burn fat from most aerobic activity. Conditioned athletes would require more intense activity to get into the fat burning zone.

Instead of running farther, it would make more sense to run faster, which is just another way of increasing the "resistance." Running sprints is excellent exercise for both cardiovascular development and leg strength. Of course, then you'd no longer be performing what is regarded as aerobic exercise.

SEMI - RETIRED

I love it when people say they do aerobics on "off days." Then it isn't a day off dammit! Proponents of brief infrequent training sessions say they get fat unless they include some aerobic activity. Well, why not just work out more? There's only so much energy the body can expend before it becomes overtrained. Why waste it? It's crucial to make the most of that window of opportunity by implementing the most effective form of exercise. And aerobics are at the bottom of the list. I also find it funny how some strength coaches think that training for a pump by using higher reps with a lighter weight is worthless, yet believe aerobic activity, which offers less resistance, has merit. (?)

I've heard people swear they look leaner after a cardio session. Sure. It's called sweating. When you perspire, you remove the subcutaneous fluid which looks like fat. You see your muscles more clearly. If that's what you're looking for, dress warmly when you workout. Or wear a sweat belt. You'll get the same results.

Most people, other than the severely sedentary, get plenty of activity that will increase their heart rate for twenty minutes. Walking, dancing, playing sports, or riding a bike (a real one) are excellent methods to elevate heart rate. Even sex is a great way to increase heart rate. Sure beats the treadmill.

IT'S IN THE CARDS

When it comes to exercise, doing more won't assure more health or a longer life. Look at Jim Fixx. He wrote the famous book on running back in the 70's when it first started gaining popularity with the public. (By the way, how exactly do you go about writing a book on running? How many times can you say; left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot...?) Jim Fixx died at age 36. When I mention this to running addicts they invariable say; "Jim Fixx had a congenital heart problem!" That's my point. Running didn't correct or even alleviate the problem. No disrespect intended, but all that running may have very well aggravated it.

MORE MUSCLE = LESS FAT

Using aerobics as a method of burning fat is only fanning the fire. Muscle requires energy to sustain. Fat does not. Therefore, the best way to keep bodyfat in check is by having more muscle. And how do we do that? Lifting weights of course! Are you getting all of this?

STATUS QUO WOES

As we now know, the human organism doesn't like having to change. It will adapt and adjust in an effort to maintain homeostasis. That's why it's so difficult to grow muscle or lose fat. The body likes things just the way they are and it requires the torturous stress of lifting ever increasing poundage before it will concede and grow more muscle. The same goes for losing fat. Accepting the fact that the body doesn't want to alter its total bodyweight, does it not make more sense to make as much of that weight muscle?

Let's say your set point is 200 pounds -- that's where your body is comfortable. It could just as well be 200 pounds with 6% bodyfat as 16% bodyfat. The mistake many people make is to attempt to lose weight in the hopes that they will lose fat. If you force your body to lose weight, the first thing it's going to give up is muscle since muscle weighs more than fat. Once again, since protein is 4 calories per gram and fat is 9, it requires more to sustain a gram of muscle than it does a gram of fat. When you deplete the energy intake (calories), you are telling your body to lose muscle. No wonder so many people throw in the towel and lament, "It's impossible!" It isn't impossible. There is a positive flip side to this phenomenon. If you have enough muscle, you can eat more and still remain the same bodyweight. More calories will provide more energy and once again, since the body wants to maintain homeostasis, it will burn those extra calories, if your muscle to fat ratio is high. This re-confirms the fact that the emphasis must be on building muscle and not on trying to burn fat by punishing the body in an attempt to use up calories.

A NOTE TO THE DIEHARDS

Even if you've accepted the premise I've presented, you may still want to engage in some aerobic activity now and then. I certainly have no problem with that. If I feel like getting into a good game of handball, I'm not going to worry, "Oh my god, I may lose some muscle!" Go on, break a good sweat. Show that you can use that beautiful body for things other than lifting weights. It feels good! Some cardio-based exercise can offer, if nothing else, a change of pace. I've even been know to test myself every now and then by running a 10 minute mile or two. Granted, Carl Lewis has nothing to worry about, but it shows I'm not suffering any serious defect in aerobic ability due to just weight training as the only source of exercise for my heart.

THE GIFT THAT DOESN'T KEEP ON GIVING

If you enjoy running then go for it. Just keep in mind, aerobics increase metabolism only while you're doing them. They won't utilize fat for fuel when you're at rest. Only having more muscle will do that. Resistance training also improves glucose disposal and insulin sensitivity. Aerobic activity doesn't do either very effectively.

AM or PM?

There's also some controversy as to when aerobic activity should be executed. The precept currently in vogue is to do aerobics in the morning on an empty stomach, the theory being that you will more quickly use up stored carbohydrates and burn fat faster. I don't agree with this line of thinking. Without available carbs, the body is more vulnerable to catabolism. If you insist on running, the preferable time would be at the end of a workout. In this way, the heart rate is already elevated and less activity will be required to achieve the desired effect.

THROWING DOWN THE GAUNTLET

If you are currently on a training program that includes aerobics, I'd like to offer a challenge. Try this test for one month: Train exactly as you do now but eliminate all aerobic activity from your exercise regime. Since you will be expending less energy, you may want to up the poundage of the weights you're lifting or at least add a couple of extra reps to each set. Continue to eat as you are now, making sure to maintain a high intake of protein. At the end of one month, I guarantee you that none of your aerobic ability will be lost. You will also have more energy, fuller shapelier looking muscles, and the exact same body fat percentage that you have now. Trust me.

AND NOW A WORD FROM OUR SPONSOR

And if all of this isn't evidence enough, I'll let Doctor Kenneth Cooper have the last word. He wrote the book "The New Aerobics" and is credited with coining the very term "aerobics." Twenty five years after the debut of his book, Dr. Cooper admitted that many of his conclusions were incorrect. He was quoted as saying: "Further research has shown that there is no correlation between aerobic performance and health, protection against heart disease, and longevity."

Newsweek Magazine ran a piece on Exercise Guild president Ken Hutchins who refers to an article that appeared in Mens Journal Magazine where Dr. Cooper goes on to say that aerobics are far more carcinogenic than first realized and are to blame for many injuries.

There you have it. Do you still want to do cardio? Be my guest. While you're at it, put 20 bucks on the number 7 horse in the fourth race at the OTB. You've got as much chance at getting rich as you do of improving your fitness goals through aerobic activity. Aerobics are a terribly ineffective form of exercise. The sooner that's realized, the sooner you'll be on your way toward better progress. I know it's tough to accept. But changing a bad habit is a lot smarter than defending it.


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

lol, too much for me to read this AM....


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## rus23 (Jul 7, 2003)

Mmmm interesting, never been one for much cardio anyway, swimming is as much as i do as i cant be bothered to spend an hour running or cycling. Ill stick with me Gym gives us who dont like cardio work an excuse anyway 

ive a mate who just does cardio and hes like a rake not any less fat than me either but also no muscle to show for it just that he can run for an hour on a running machine and i cant.


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

I need more convincing than that, sure cardio burns muscle, but I don't think that it is possible to build an awesome physique without incorporating some kind of cardio.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

For a minute there I thought that was one of my articles  . I wrote a very similar one about how crap aerobics are.

The proof is that if you go by any aerbobics class and look at the people, then go back in 6 months time the ones who are still there will look exactly the same. Aerobics doesnt reshape the body the way weights do. At very best they will make you a slightly smaller version of yourself - e.g. a small pear shapre as opposed to a big pear shape. Diet and weights are the most important. Havings said that, a small amount of intense cardio does have many benefits. Just dont rely on it for your weight loss plans.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

If you are going to do cardio, then it should be done intensely and increasingly intense each workout. As the author of that article said, the body adapts easily so to keep getting any benefit from cardio it has to be done more intensely each workout. The way I do this is by trying to beat my previous distance each session. So if I'm trying to lose weight I do 20 minute running sessions and each time I try to increase the distance I've run.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hey Damage, who is the author?

Nelson Montana?

Nice article. Makes alot of sense too, especially this:

"MORE MUSCLE = LESS FAT

Using aerobics as a method of burning fat is only fanning the fire. Muscle requires energy to sustain. Fat does not. Therefore, the best way to keep bodyfat in check is by having more muscle. And how do we do that? Lifting weights of course! Are you getting all of this?"


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

i didnt bother the read all this since its just way too long.....but the title alone scares me

first off..their is a difference between cardio and arobics...or anarobics for that matter....and not doing them is not good....and this will not burn your muscle if you eat right....diet is the key to everything and you need cardio, arobics, or whatever you want to call it in order to be in proper health........just because steroids make your arms bigger doesnt mean it makes your heart stronger...and so many people forget that one of the major problems with steroids is alot of people take them just because they think it makes them look good and they dont want to do anything but get big and are too lazy to do anything but lift weights..........not doing cardio is just laziness and ignorance...you dont need to be doing arobic exercise to be doing cardio either...but arobic exercise is a good thing to get into...and you dont see these massive NFL (american football) people saying 'i'm not doing cardio because it burns muscle'....cause besides getting your heart bigger and stronger it's burning the carbs then the fat(not the muscle) and getting rid of all that extra water..so i guess it may appear to some that your muscles get smaller with this but its just making them more firm and making them what they should be...

i'm going to stop here since i feel i'm going nowhere with this and that i'm just trying to fit everything i want to say into one small post...and that isnt possible...so whatever...

just dont be ignorant and think arobics is for girls


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## Nathan (Feb 1, 2004)

I agree with jock on this one, to get a wicked body you got to do some cardio with diet and look at your workout in more detail

IF YOU WANT IT GO GET IT


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

Jock said:


> I need more convincing than that, sure cardio burns muscle, but I don't think that it is possible to build an awesome physique without incorporating some kind of cardio.


I'd disagree with that statement as there are quite a few pro bodybuilders who never do cardio. However, I do think it has a place and that you should do some and that it does aid in getting leaner to some extent. Cardio in small, frequent amounts also has been shown to improve your assimilation of protein into muscle. However, my main beef (and the reason I wrote a very similar article) is with people (non bodybuilders) who want to get in shape and go straight to the aerobics rather than the weights. I used to see so many people do this and it drove me cerrrrazy....


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

silentbob said:


> (non bodybuilders) who want to get in shape and go straight to the aerobics rather than the weights. I used to see so many people do this and it drove me cerrrrazy....


I think this is where most people go wrong mate, people assume that jogging on a treadmil for days on end will automatically gift them a chisled physique.

Believe me I know the downside of excessive cardio, when I was 18 I embarked on a 10 week cutting cycle that consisted of cardio 6 times a week and I lost a sh1tload of muscle.

But then again, I haven't done any cardio for about 2 months and I feel sluggish, sure I have more muscle than I used to but I can go up several flights of stairs without puffing a little, I am not used to this (once did 13.6 on the bleep test) The heart is a muscle too, we must not forget that.

I beleive cardio has a place, but must not be abused.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

anyone that does just one or the other is doing the wrong thing......and i dont know anyone that goes to the gym just to do cardio besides women...and certain types of athletes like marathon runners and such...

and the only reason you lost muscle on a cutting cycle doing cardio is a)you stopped lifting weights as much to do more cardio b)since cutting cycles tend to shed off alot of water your muscles may get a bit smaller if they were mostly water weight or c)both a and b.......and if youre on a cutting cycle i dont see the need to do more cardio then normal...thats the point of the cutting cycle is to get you cut without having to do all the work.................


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

miami797 said:


> and the only reason you lost muscle on a cutting cycle doing cardio is a)you stopped lifting weights as much to do more cardio b)since cutting cycles tend to shed off alot of water your muscles may get a bit smaller if they were mostly water weight


I did not stop lifting weights, although I learned a valuable lesson low calorie diets + too much cardio = severe muscle loss.


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## Sportsup (Mar 16, 2004)

silentbob said:


> For a minute there I thought that was one of my articles  . I wrote a very similar one about how crap aerobics are.
> 
> The proof is that if you go by any aerbobics class and look at the people, then go back in 6 months time the ones who are still there will look exactly the same.


Probably more to do with the diet and mindset of those people. Aerobics are an exercise activity and hence will burn calories. These calories will be bodyfat calories if you are in calorie deficit (ie eating less than your body requires) or will be food calories if you over eat (Therefore not burning bodyfat). If these people are not changing shape (through fat loss), they are probably eating too much therefore negating or balancing out any calories they burning doing the aerobics.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Could be guys!

After more thought I figured I would post again.

I know a girl that does about 2 hours of cardio a day and sometimes she plays recquetball afterwards. I asked her one day why she did so much cardio.

She said "I eat 1 lb of M&M's a day and if I do cardio I can eat what ever I want!"

First thing I thought was if she did not eat chocolate that she did not have to do cardio at all. But when I was checking out her butt and it was massive along with some thick legs. I did not like her body for as much cardio she did. Body was hammered and with a good diet I feel she could look good.


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## Sportsup (Mar 16, 2004)

Jock said:


> Believe me I know the downside of excessive cardio, when I was 18 I embarked on a 10 week cutting cycle that consisted of cardio 6 times a week and I lost a sh1tload of muscle.


Muscle (and strength loss) is a unfortunate but unavoidable part of a major cutting / dietting cycle. Summer before last I dropped to around 6% bodyfat (all done naturally) and strength fell through the floor towards the end. As soon as you start eating properly again (or a maintainence diet to level weight gain / loss) muscle memory kicks in and strength returns. Pound for pound, I tend to find I'm stronger on the way back up than on the way down...


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## Sportsup (Mar 16, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Could be guys!
> 
> First thing I thought was if she did not eat chocolate that she did not have to do cardio at all..


Correct, assuming the cardio meets the calorie intake.



hackskii said:


> But when I was checking out her butt. .


 



hackskii said:


> and it was massive along with some thick legs..


Massive butt and thick legs probably mean there's a whole lotta fat still there. Muscle's will obviously be underneath somewhere, and probably (after lots of cardio) are probably well defined but you'll never know with layers of fat covering it. More Cardio (calorie burning) or less food (calorie intake) required to burn bodyfat. Same thing with abs. Everybody has them but most people's are hidden by bodyfat. There are probably some great sets of symmetrical abs out there, hidden under 500 Big Macs worth of fat and excess calories!

It takes five minutes to eat a Mars bar and consumer 300 Calories. It takes an hours gentle jogging to burn off the equivalent 300 Calories. I always think anyone wanting to burn fat should think of food in "Minutes Of Cardio" rather than "fat grams" or Calories, it just sounds tougher when you have to face it


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Diet is deffinetly key here. Quality diet = quality body!

A few years ago I had a awesome diet. Ate 7 meals a day and lost about 1 lb a week. Took many weeks like 30 to get the body I wanted. Was doing cardio but kept losing more than my target weight of 1 lb a week. I had to cut out the cardio as I did not want or feel like adding another meal or volume in the diet. I lifted 5 days a week and the extra cardio was too much. Kept almost all the weight (lifts) and attributed that to the fact that I was only losing a pound a week. I ate and I ate big but the portions were not too filling 500 or less calories.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

Sportsup said:


> Probably more to do with the diet and mindset of those people. Aerobics are an exercise activity and hence will burn calories. These calories will be bodyfat calories if you are in calorie deficit (ie eating less than your body requires) or will be food calories if you over eat (Therefore not burning bodyfat). If these people are not changing shape (through fat loss), they are probably eating too much therefore negating or balancing out any calories they burning doing the aerobics.


There's some merit to what you say there. Like the example Hackskii gave, a hell of a lot of people think if they do a bit of cardio then proper diet is something they dont need. On the flip side there are also very dedicated people who do plenty of cardio and never get any results.

I'd disagree that all calories burned by cardio are solely from bodyfat stores or the food you eat. It is very easy to get into catabolism doing cardio and start tearing muscle tissue down. If you dont do it right (for instance do too much cardio whilst not eating enough hence creating too large a calorie deficit) the body can react by plunging deep into catabolism, using muscle for fuel and actually clinging on to the bodyfat stores so that it knows it has easily accessible calorie stores for future similar traumas.

One important question to ask is how many people do you know who have re-shaped their bodies using only aerobic exercise (no weights)? I've seen hundreds of people train, and sure I've seen some people lose weight doing cardio alone, but they do end up purely as smaller versions of themselves (because you cant choose which area you lose weight from, it goes from all over). Often they dont even look better for all of their effort. The most impressive fat loss I've ever witnessed first hand was an guy who came into my gym. He wanted my help to lose weight for his 65th birthday in 12 weeks time. He did no cardio at all, but lifted weights 3 times a week (he'd never lifted a weight before in his life) and followed a high protein, low carb diet. In the 12 weeks he lost just over 2 stones and looked a completely different body shape. I had huge respect for that guy - its not easy to change your eating and exercise habits - let alone your body - once you reach that age.


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## Sportsup (Mar 16, 2004)

silentbob said:


> I'd disagree that all calories burned by cardio are solely from bodyfat stores or the food you eat. It is very easy to get into catabolism doing cardio and start tearing muscle tissue down..


I agree (and admit perhaps my initial response wasn't worded in enough detail). Catabolusm (Muscle breakdown for newbies) is a right royal pain in the ass when dietting.



silentbob said:


> One important question to ask is how many people do you know who have re-shaped their bodies using only aerobic exercise (no weights)?


I guess it depends on the severity of the bodyshape. Last year I personal trained a girl who was on the wrong side of 19 Stone. Over a period of around 8 months of extreme motivation, high protein controlled carb / fat diet and lots of cardio (Aerobics, Treadmills, Steppers) she lost over 5 stone.

At 14+ She was still overweight, but her shape (after a 5 stone fat loss) changed considerably!

Admittedly, I have since moved her onto weights (quashing silly rumours about gaining "Man Muscles") in addition to cardio, but the initial shape change came through diet and aerobic exercise.

In the case of your "average joe", it is probably more difficult.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

That's another pet hate - women thinking that lifting weights will turn them into Ronnie Coleman or something. There are some serious misconceptions out there in the big wide world of fitness.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

mmmmmmmm Christ this is a long tread,, cardio.... for me its the icing on the cake and doing it at the right intensity is the key.......

Heart rate to high and the majority of the calories burned from carbs (glycogen stores), or protein (muscle),,, heart rate about 120-130 50% from fat 50% from carbs...

You cant just burn from fat, its burned in conjunction with carbs or protein.....

in my opinion the lower your bodyfat to start with, then the easier it is to loose muscle when doing aerobics... so keep the intensity in the low to moderate range... we're bobybuilders not track athletes and no more that 35 min 3 times week!!! and yes do it on a training day if possible straight after you down ur post workout shake..

Your heart rate will be in the right range to start with then and straight into the fat burning zone!!

Just my 2 cents worth....


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

sorry, got to get some pet hates out in the open here.

when my girlfriend said she wanted to lose weight and i suggested the gym the usual response followed, "i dont want to get muscley i just want to TONE up and lose a bit of weight" believe me, on your diet, you wont build any muscle, you will most likely lose it.

Other lines of interest.

Wont push myself too hard, dont wanna get too big!

I am happy with my size, i just want to TONE up what i have got.

i dont want to use those weights coz i dont want big muscles.

It seriously ****es me off that society uses the TONE word and thinks that this kind of stuff is easy to do. Its an excuse to not work hard because you think you will end up with 20inch arms. Give me a break!

I just want to tone up, f__ck off and do something else.

Rant over, feel better now


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

U seem 2 have gora lota test floating around in there at the moment phill. Glad u feel better mate. lol

na seriously I know what u mean.... U cant educate pork mate!!


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

my gf started training with me about a month ago - she was a proper gym bunny doing cardio and light weights 5 times a week, now she lifts heavy twice a week and still does cardio twice a week, she's really noticed a difference in her fitness and looks even better than she did.

She dead lifts 70kg and she's only 120lbs bless her!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

not taking the ****, but thats a really good deadlift for a girl i think!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

i should be running on empty as far as test is concerned but i feel great, might be the HCG!


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

> not taking the ****, but thats a really good deadlift for a girl i think!


she used to do a lot of ballet so she's got a lot of core strength, certainly puts some of the pinheads in the gym to shame!!


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Yeah, I dont think the ladies will get beefy naturally, there aint enough test in em....

Used to a out with a gymnast... They got nice shape to them. powerfull but not beefy.... The birds im on about!!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

my girl used to do a lot of dancing and is quite strong, i used to argue with her because she used to go to a differnet gym and swore she was using more weight on the dip machine than me. No way!!!


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

You find ladies from that kind of background usually got great abbs mate,

ps its a lot easier to dip if u only weigh 120... about 40k for sets of 7 or 8 my limit... watching u dont get ur nuts sandwiched between 2 20k plates. lol.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

were talking machines here mate, not sure i can dip my own weight with good form, i weigh 95k


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Im 87k at the moment.... because ive put on 16lbs after 4 weeks of bol. Sh*t Id better do some aerobics...


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

whats your stats, height measurements bodyfat?


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Age 32 Height 5' 10" about 14% bf though have been down to 11%

Arms/Neck 16" Calves 15 1/4 (need work)

Quads 24 1/2 (Work needed also)

Waste naturally Narrow 30"

Chest 44" Cold (just grows on its own, 3 sets a week)

Thaks about it been training naturally for about 3 years (couldnt even do 1 chin when i started seriously, had to jump up and jusy do the negative) Now do 20k for 8 reps

All for 5-8 Reps depending on the day

Bench 120k

Squats 165k

Deadlift 180k

Leg Press 320k for 10

Barbell Curl 52.5k for 8 (strict)

have to kill the lower half, not neglected just slower to respond. Dont want to end up looking like a bit spider. lol.

How abou u mate?


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

25yrs 5'8 62mm skinfolds dont know how that translates to %

Arms 16 1/2"

Quads 25"

Chest not sure but i have a big rib cage so my chest sticks out nicely

not telling you my waist as i have naturally wide hips, have big legs tho!

Deadlifts and legs are similar to you in poundages however my upper body is a bit weaker, definetly strong below the waist tho!

I couldnt do chins, now i can do 5 (wide grip)

Been training on and off over the years, got interested in bodybuilding when i was 12 but never stuck it it long enough, have been going constantly for about a year now, but like i said ive been in and out of it. Had a lot of knowledge and good form before i started because i had such a big interest when i was young.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

I'm a similar size and weight to you aftershock, my belly puts you to shame though, got 5 inches on you there!

Ladies with a gymnastic build, mmmmm, my favourite - our lass is fairly stocky (but petite if that makes sense) with the flattest tummy you'll ever see.

As for dips - i can manage about 12 of my own bodyweight, last few i shake like hell though!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

uve got a 25 inch waist, **** me, i wear 36" jeans


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Well u must be doing something-right mate. Big arms for that height in my opinion, though id leave the ballet to the missis with them stats. lol.

We've hijacked this thread lads so apologies to all who read after!! Unless typing qualifies as being aerobic&#8230;

I used to do a lot of sports when younger and in Uni, 200m sprints and the like, got fat and lazy when I left, stress I work freaked me out., had a panic attack, quack said do some training&#8230;. Never looked back,,,,saved me did the training&#8230;.

I got to be honest I think ive got a lot of fast twitch fibre in me comparatively, because I can kill the heavy set then if stuffed, like it breef and intense. Only train 4.5 hours a week in total but it works for me.. Not one for loads of sets..

Good luck to you mate&#8230;. Keep the training up!!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

nah, me neither, when im on gear i do even less sets because i can train each set so much harder and get such a big pump i dont need a 4th set. shorter and harder!


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Na he meens his is 35" i think dont u power U?

Flat bellied women r gr8 mate, though they tend to lose it up top when the bf goes low....

Not mine though shes surgically enhanced!!!! Tough i didnt tell u that ok!!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

great, dont feel pear shaped any more!


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

If ur not of a nervious disposition and u want to shed a bit (not that im saying u need to mate) get on the ECA!! It'll fuel ur workouts 2!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

im on eca at the mo, why do you think im typing so fast!!lol


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

yep 35" - down 3" to that this year too!

I'm only 5'9", got 44" chest and 15.5" arms, so the way i look at it - if i was 6' plus and the rest of me went up in pro, i'd be happy with that - i'm just looking to drop some off my waist and that's me fine.

as the gf up top, natural 34C pert ones, part of the reason she never pursued the ballet - i never told you that either!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

i was a 42" jeans last june, right fat b_stard i was


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

think we better stick to the aerobics mate, cause we r going to drop ourselves in the sticky brown stuff if this gets back...lol


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

yeah - just can't get used to the lycra though.

Ephedrine??? Take it you've used it then?


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

fair enough, ive just not got a lot of work to do today and im bored so im going mad on the forums until i get given something to do.lol


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Yeah, i like epherdrine, taken sensibly its good stuff in my opinion, but many will disagree (Panthro u listening)... Not 2 be taken when on gear though! BP goes 2 high!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

i do like it pre workout, makes you sweat loads and gives you the motivation to drag yourelf onto the treadmill when youve finished your workout! there! back to the aerobics!


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

Never touched and gear, i think i've had ephedrine a few years ago though in a product called metacuts or something. Do you recommend stacking it with Caffeine and Aspirin?


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

I only take as ECA never on its own..... Sweat like hell, aand workout seems to get done quicker... everything in moderation... Dont think its good for really heavy stuff, only lighter faster paced workouts!!!


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

thats usually the case mate, have taken eph on its own, guess the caffiene packs mure punch into it, not sure what the aspirin does, maybe thin the blood to keep blood pressure down? not sure. I lost most of my fat just dieting and using a bit of cardio straight after training 3-4 times a week.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

eph o its own is fine also i reckon, and i find it its good for heavy workouts too. I dont personally feel i cant train without it but i think some people find this as a problem so its probably not to be messed with!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The asprin helps in the thermogenetics of the ECA. All it does is make the body hotter. Which will help burn some fat. But it is not completely without sides. Problem is the cardiovascular system will take a hit while on the ECA. So diet will work just fine here and maybe if the diet is ok then you can take the ECA but diet by itself will work just fine if done the right way.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

once my supply is used up, i wont be taking it again for long time. I'm just giving my diet a boost to kick start me on my way. to be honest, the last time i used it i swear it did nothing to help me loose fat. I'm kinda experimenting with it again just to give it another go!


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

I hope this is ok mods?????

Obviously its not legal to buy in the UK. Not that people will have a problem getting hold of.

However it comes in some over the counter meds one in particular is called "Chestease" I think..............About 3 tabs of this supply 25mg which will do the trick.....

Nothings illegal about it then....


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

the ones i take are the ma huang version and they give me bad heart burn. i have some hydrochlorides and they dont seem to do that.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

My mrs is a brown belt in muay thai kickboxing (a la Tong Po in 'Kickboxer') - or at least she was until she had a car accident a few weeks before her black belt grading - so is pretty strong. Certainly not beefy though. In fact before she had our son she was only about 8st. She's never really enjoyed training in the gym until recently though. I always used to get her doing programs designed for girls and she didn't get anything out of them. I can count on one hand the number of times she trained in the gym we actually owned. Since we moved, she's started training with me and is much more into it, lifting quite heavy and doing more compound exercises. Getting pretty good at it too.

Phil, those pet hates you described really hit a chord with me. I've heard all those excuses so many times. Its hard as a gym owner to deal with people who come in and say those things because on the one hand you cant afford to lose their business but on the other hand for the sake of your own sanity you have to say something. People talk such bull**** to try and get out of training properly.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

too right mate. I thought most lads would want to be strong and muscular, its just a male thing to want to do, but can i get my mates to train with me? Not in the slightest. I even tried to convince my mate that training would help his football.

"i dont want big legs, i dont want to get slow and heavy"

argghhhhhhhhhhhhh!


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