# NEW BICEP EXERCISE!



## martinmuscles (Apr 30, 2005)

Hi guys, after reading a thread by, I think it was ninepac, I decided to try a new exercise tonight at the end of my bicep workout.

The thread in question made the point that the biceps gain minimal stimulation from the curl movement in arm exercises but that all the resistance and stimulation came from the supination aspect of the exercise, ie turning of the wrists. The example given was to hold up your arms at shoulder level as if about to hold a double biceps pose but with arms straight out, now bend your arms without flexing. You will feel hardly any tension in the biceps at all. But now turn your wrists in, palms facing you, and as if by magic the biceps is under tension.

Try this at the end of your workouts guys and let me know what happens ok, I think you will be surprised.

Get hold of two adjustable dumbells and only weight one end. Stand with elbows by your sides with arms at 90 degrees, at half curl position. Now hold the dumbells in each hand with the palms facing each other (weighted end hanging down) now twist your wrists and supinate your biceps so that the weighted end of both bells are touching each other in front of you. Do 3 sets of 10 and tell me your not in pain!!

Ive competed numerous times in the past, and never ever dreamed such a simple movement could hit my Bis so hard.......please try it guys!!


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

That's bull about the bi not feeling any tension.

The muscle is contracting... or shortening.

Thats what actually moves the lower arm.

It's main function is elbow flexation.


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## shorty (Mar 13, 2007)

> biceps gain minimal stimulation from the curl movement in arm exercises


Im with you on this JohnOvManc.... sounds like a misunderstanding of some advice.... either that or ive wasted 2 years of my life repeating bicep curls!


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## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

I think it sounds good, for me isolating the bicep is one of the hardst things to do.

Using bar curls, I have found the best weight to achieve this is 10kg each side and doing the exercise properly. It amazes me how many people get this exercise wrong.

On occasion I cheat curl much more weight but for pure bicep tension I need to go light.

I for one will be trying out this exercise (Nothing to lose trying it) just need to find a half dumbell LOL

And if ninepack *has *recommended this sort of exercise then I can assure you it will work.


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Delhi said:


> I think it sounds good, for me isolating the bicep is one of the hardst things to do.
> 
> Using bar curls, I have found the best weight to achieve this is 10kg each side and doing the exercise properly. It amazes me how many people get this exercise wrong.
> 
> ...


Yep, he is a master of creating all sorts of different exercises which work. He posted up a shoulder exercise done differently (think it was a pressing movement) & everyone who tried it raved about it


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

JohnOvManc said:


> That's bull about the bi not feeling any tension.
> 
> The muscle is contracting... or shortening.
> 
> ...


aye but the bicep also turns the arm...

arnie always went on about turning the wrists all the way round at the bottom of a DB curl so you have to un turn it to start the movement...

the bi will feel contraction, but not maximum contraction...


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## BrokenBack (Nov 12, 2006)

Training back and bi's tonight so will give it a go and let you guys know tomorrow how it felt.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

MM...the movement you first suggested about arms parralell to floor pamls down and curl like a front double bi's - you dont feel it working the bis because its the triceps working then!

Like a tricep pushdown, its pretty much the same exercise as a cable bicep curl (presuming your using the straight bar), its the same movement but wrist pronated instead of suppinated.

As for the exercise you suggested to try, ill be giving that a go


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

JohnOvManc said:


> That's bull about the bi not feeling any tension.
> 
> The muscle is contracting... or shortening.
> 
> ...


John,

the bicep brachii has a secondary function of elbow flexion, but like it or not, it's primary function is to supinate the wrist. As with my described demo; hold your right arm out to the side as if doing side laterals. Now bend the arm at 90 degrees so the hand is pointing towards the ceiling and the palm facing forward. Now feel the bicep using the other arm, is it fully flexed? No. Now twist the palm to face your ear & watch the bicep go into full contraction.

As I said a while ago, my brother in law had his bicep removed after a workplace accident. he can bend his arm fine, but can't turn a screwdriver. Think about it.

Martin,

You've got the right idea there. what I do is a dumb bell supination. I hold my arm at 90 degrees off the vertical side of a preacher, holding a dumb bell offset as far to the top of the handle as I can with the thumb uppermost. I then simply twist the wrist to try & bring the little finger end of the dumb bell as far round & up as it will go whilst maintaining the 90 degree angle at the elbow. It's a very short movement, but very effective.

I have dozens of wierd exercises in my head. Need to get out more me thinks.

enjoy.:smoke:


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

> the bi will feel contraction, but not maximum contraction...


disagree

the bicep curl covers the biceps brachii's main functions... especially DB curls

1. moveing the lower arm

2. rotating the forearm

DB curls you start with the weights by your side just like hammers (half way between pronated and supinated.

You curl the weight towards you (function1.) and your forarm also rotates after it's past your leg (function 2.)

^^^ thus curls taking your bi through a full ROM in BOTH functions flexation and supination (there's also another muscle that helps the bicep supinate the forearm as well and the bi also assits the arm getting raised at the shoulder).


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

John,

I suggest you go back & read the original thread on this subject, as we are both actually singing from the same hymn sheet. My original point was about dumb bells being superior to a bar as when performing any bicep movement, we need to incorporate both flexion of the elbow AND supination of the wrist. The reason is, as I have stated before, that the biceps brachii primary function, and you can disagree all you want but it's true, is to supinate the forearm. It is *not* the prime mover in elbow flexion, it is a *synergist*.

In order for a muscle to be considered the *prime mover*, it must be at peak contraction at the end of the rom, and as I have clearly demonstrated, unless the wrist is supinated, the bicep is *not* at full contraction even when the elbow is bent fully. But I fully agree that supination, in conjunction with elbow flexion is the way to hit biceps fully.

The dumb bell supination is mereley a way of hitting it in pure isolation.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

A lot of the problems with Biceps is that ego lifters incorporate too many other muscles in the movement.

When I do barbell curls I actually bend over at 70 degress almost like a bent over row and then curl the weight up to my neck from the hanging position.

And yes my hands are supinated.

And I do supination curls as well.:cool:


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## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> When I do barbell curls I actually bend over at 70 degress almost like a bent over row and then curl the weight up to my neck from the hanging position.
> 
> And yes my hands are supinated.


I do these too, we call them "Monkey curls" up here...........!


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Tinytom said:


> When I do barbell curls I actually bend over at 70 degress almost like a bent over row and then curl the weight up to my neck from the hanging position.


Have you ever tried laying face down on a steep incline bench & doing dumb bell curls in that position? Similar effect to your leaning forward but no chance of any torso movement & less risk to the lower back. It looks wierd but who cares?


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> Have you ever tried laying face down on a steep incline bench & doing dumb bell curls in that position? Similar effect to your leaning forward but no chance of any torso movement & less risk to the lower back. It looks wierd but who cares?


LOL Yes I have mate but I find that due to my short ass stature my head ends up facing leather.

However its something I do throw in now and again for variation.

Hey Paul you remember Captain Anabolic from FLEX all those years ago? sometimes I go back and read through my old copies for exercise inspiration.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Tinytom said:


> LOL Yes I have mate but I find that due to my short ass stature my head ends up facing leather. I do it sort of 'stood' against the bench with my head past the end of the bench as opposed to sitting on the base of the bench, to avoid squashing my face where someone's sweaty bonce has been.
> 
> However its something I do throw in now and again for variation.
> 
> Hey Paul you remember Captain Anabolic from FLEX all those years ago? sometimes I go back and read through my old copies for exercise inspiration.  can't say that I do bud, but it may be before my time, I'm only 14!


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

The name for those is Prone Curls TinyTom.



> It is not the prime mover in elbow flexion, it is a synergist


So what would you say is the agonist r primery mover is in a bicep curl???

IMO... the Agonist is the muscle causeing movment through concentric contraction = bicep.

I'm not expert but it's widely accepted that biomechanically the Biceps and Brachialis are doing the job of flexation.

It also does rotation but the Supinator muscle also helps with this.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

JohnOvManc said:


> The name for those is Prone Curls TinyTom.
> 
> So what would you say is the agonist r primery mover is in a bicep curl???
> 
> ...


Or spider curls. You'll hardly ever see me name an exercise unless its obvious from the name what it is as its easier for those not in the know to understand. 

Oh Flexation should be Flexion. 

Sorry couldnt resist it since we're nit picking lol.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

JohnOvManc said:


> The name for those is Prone Curls TinyTom.
> 
> So what would you say is the agonist r primery mover is in a bicep curl???
> 
> ...


Thanks John, I am well aware of the difference between an agonist & an antagonist. The prime mover in elbow flexion is the brachialis. Every single A & P textbook I have studied from over the years correlates this fact. Every one of them lists the actions of the muscle in order of

priority. The biceps brachii is listed as having the actions in this order:

1) Forearm supination

2) Forearm flexion

3) Shoulder flexion (weak synergist)

Origin: long head - supraglenoid tubercle of the scapula

Short head - coracoid process of the scapula

Insertion: Tuberosity of the radius, bicipital aponeurosis into deep fascia to medial side of the forearm.

Nerve: Musculocutaneous nerve.

While the Brachialis is listed thus:

1) Flexes Forearm. Period, *no other action.*

Origin: Front lower half of the humerus

Insertion: Coronoid process of the Ulna & tuberosity of the Ulna

Nerve: Musculocutaneous nerve.

Now I'm not trying to say I'm an expert either John, but I am a qualified injury therapist and have self studied anatomy & biomechanics for some ten years now. Neither am I here to debate something that I know to be basic physiological fact, not just an opinion. Getting back to the original point, all I was saying in the first place is that we should supinate, as well as flex the elbow to get maximum stimulation. A fact that I think we all agree on.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

JohnOvManc said:


> That's bull about the bi not feeling any tension.
> 
> The muscle is contracting... or shortening.
> 
> ...


It is an elbow flexor yes, but the Brachialis, which lies underneath does most of the work unless the hand is supinated (turned upward).

As Del said Isolating the Biceps is very hard as flexing the elbow works Brachialis and Biceps Brachii.

SD


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## martinmuscles (Apr 30, 2005)

Hi Guys,

Seemed Ive caused a furore and didnt mean to.

The oint of this post was to get people to try a movement that REALLY hit the biceps like nothng ive tried before

Go back to the originla post and try the exercise described and then come back and try and argue the you get a harder contraction doing curls....and ill call you a freak or a liar!! lol


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

I'm not calling you out mate, you don't need to defend yourself... I was just asking LOL

I didn't even mention anything about you knowing the differances between agonist & an antagonist.

The brachialis is more powerful (which I didn't know till now!!!)... I'm not even arguing against that though??? never disagree'd with what you said if you read my posts mate.

My 1st reply was about the biceps being heavily involved... it's obvious taht it's contracted (that reply was not to your post)

My 2nd was about the contraction... (wasn't in reply to your post)

My 3rd was a question... (that's the only one where I reply to you)

If you look at it you can see I have not been disagreeing at all.

My points that I did make in reply to other people were the fact the role of the heavily involved Bicep seemed to be being mis-considered.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

It's ok John, I did'nt think you were calling anyone out. I understand what you were getting at, and I was trying (in my own garbled way) to say that I was in essence agreeing that of course the bicep is involved, but only once the wrist is supinated.

Anyhoo, it's all good fun. I need to get out more, I really do.  It's all Martins fault!! Only joking Martin, I am just a waffler as people on here already know. I like these threads to keep myself up to speed on my knowledge. it's like taking an impromptu exam when I get asked about A & P.


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

:beer: Good stuff NP.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Where do you train by the way John?


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

martinmuscles said:


> Go back to the originla post and try the exercise described and then come back and try and argue the you get a harder contraction doing curls....and ill call you a freak or a liar!! lol


This is true though, it's a real b1tch of a movement.


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

Mainly FF in Gorton at the moment.

But sometimes Betta Bodies (denton), Muscle2000 (droylsden) or sometimes at the boxing club in Droylden precinct.

We need a Golds gym!!!

I actually applied for the franchise (shakes head at self) but I'm just short of a quarter of a million right now LOL.

But if 25 of us put £10 grand in a pot we could do it!!!!


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## DannyBoy81 (Jun 13, 2006)

Nine Pack said:


> Have you ever tried laying face down on a steep incline bench & doing dumb bell curls in that position? Similar effect to your leaning forward but no chance of any torso movement & less risk to the lower back. It looks wierd but who cares?


I tried these last nite, they were awsome, but I did get a sharp pain in my forearms in the bone is this just weak and needs to be built up..... ? what do you recon ?

But felt so good because it really hitting the bicep and nothing else comming into play like back etc because you cant really cheat (not that I do but u know what i mean) kept the weight low and controlled and used 10's did a few at 12 but back to 10's to keep good form just felt awsome.

Thanks Paul, Dam wish I could come to your gym when it opens !!! But ur to far.....


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## martinmuscles (Apr 30, 2005)

Glad someone eventually tried the exercise as described in first post. Ninepack Im guessing you agree with me that the soreness felt after training is much deeper and much more pronounced than with curls.....My Bis felt like peaked mountains after this!! lol


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

JohnOvManc said:


> Mainly FF in Gorton at the moment.
> 
> But sometimes Betta Bodies (denton), Muscle2000 (droylsden) or sometimes at the boxing club in Droylden precinct.
> 
> ...


John,

I use Betta Bodies a lot for myself, and for PT. As far as I know, I'm the only PT that kerry will allow to use the place as I've known him for nearly 20 years & sell tons of CNP.

I did consider a franchised gym when I laid plans for my gym, but I don't want anyone skimming anything off the top. Besides, I'm famous enough:rolleyes: & don't need the Gold's name. Just you watch, in tewnty years, the world will be littered with franchised gym's bearing my company name...... Just don't hold your breath!

Martin,

I get a deep, nasty burn when I do these & the soreness is ridiculous. I try to use them just once every fifth bicep session as they quickly become used to it.

Danny,

Pain in the forearm may be the brachialis, but it's difficult to say. Anyway, as I said to Leeston, all everyone needs to do is relocate to Manchester & join my gym, simple. I suspect there's a flaw in the plan somewhere!


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## JohnOvManc (Oct 25, 2003)

Danny -

does it feel like shin splints?

maybe compartment syndrom?

both might be worth googling.


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## DannyBoy81 (Jun 13, 2006)

Hey John - not sure never had that but its..... a sharp like splinting pain always get it when I do heavy bicep work especially when I used the Bicpe Cable machine.... the one where your rest on the pad @ 45o thats too painful to do sometimes.

Its ok while doing soon as I release the pressure then it fooking kills....like there gonna snap sometimes, just got used to it though.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I used to get a similar thing years ago, the pain was only there as I was letting go of the bar/dumb bell/handle. There are so many small muscles in the forearm that it is diffucult to pinpoint the exact structure that is causing the problem.

I did'nt have any treatment myself back then, but it did seem to resolve itself after having the arm amputated!


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