# trouble with calves



## bignol (Jan 11, 2005)

*what is your favourite calf exercises ?*​
standing raises526.32%seated raises631.58%donkey calf raises15.26%toe raises on leg press736.84%


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## bignol (Jan 11, 2005)

What do you all do for calves ? My inner calve overpowers my out calve. I need some help in getting a better balance ! Any advise would be appreciated


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Just calf raises on the leg press machine. Two rest/pause sets of fairly high reps.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

leg pres ones for me...4 sets on on a non leg day


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## OnePack (Jan 9, 2004)

can i change my vote from leg press to standing. i do both but i do standing first.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

sprinting gave me good outer calves but crap inner calves!!!

id say do your normal press, but instead of focussing putting power through your big toe. shift that power to the little piggy. you might find that your feet point towards each other


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Also, I do ultra-slow negatives on them.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

i do calves 2x a week - i'll 3 sets of 12 each time on any machine i'll choose when i'm in the gym ... normally go for the seated ones since afterwards my shoulders are safe from the marks that u get - look like a hippo has just given u a love bite imo!

I never do the same machine in a row though


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## jago25_98 (May 15, 2004)

They're tuff. Slow twitch and big


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

They are slow twitch so respond well to very high reps and low weight.

To accentuate one head of the Gastroc over the other turn your feet inward or outward and then perform the movement.

To work the Soleus do seated calf raises (the knee has to be bent) using a seated calf raise or dumbells on the knees.

hth have trained a client with similar probs this way and it is working a treat.

SD


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

IMHO - they contain a higher ratio of slow twitch to start with (its not that they are slow twitch), BUT if you keep training them that way... they stay that way.

Train the fibers you want, not the ones you were born with. train them fast twitch and watch them grow! Go against the grain of society (which has small ones)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I thought Calves had more fast twitch 

Fat people have massive calves.

Some of the biggest calves I have ever seen were on fat peoples legs.

Last I read they were more fast twitch.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

I like seated calfs as they work soleus and as this is more directly seen at the insertion of achillies, the thickening promotes wider lower calf area.

I ALSO DO STANDING, ONE LEG AND LEG PRESS RAISES.

I do a variety of both high rep low weight and low rep high weight exercises, and have trained them EOD, 2x week, and once a week.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Train em heavy at the gym then the next day get up and do 100 standing toe raises against a wall.

Next day train em heavy again followed by 100 reps the next morning and so on for 2 weeks then rest a week and see the results.

Next 2 week cycle do heavy reps different machine then the following day do 200 reps on the morning pump up.

following 2 week cycle heavy again at the gym then 300 reps on the morning pump up.

After the 3 cycles of this you`ll have bigger calves.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

i'm gonna give that a bash cookie..cheers mate


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Train em heavy at the gym then the next day get up and do 100 standing toe raises against a wall.
> 
> Next day train em heavy again followed by 100 reps the next morning and so on for 2 weeks then rest a week and see the results.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't this overtrain? Have you done this yourself cookie? Is it safe to do this much volume if you aren't gear assisted?

seriously I would like to try it but with the DOMS i would get I don't think training every day would be possible.

SOunds like something Arnie would do! but he was hard, then again so is Cookie lol

SD


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

SportDr said:


> Wouldn't this overtrain? Have you done this yourself cookie? Is it safe to do this much volume if you aren't gear assisted?
> 
> seriously I would like to try it but with the DOMS i would get I don't think training every day would be possible.
> 
> ...


Here we go mister quantum negativety

Yes i have tried it myself you should know by now I never give advice unless I have used it myself first.

If you arent gear assisted then you up the protein especially after the workout ie,a double protein shake and extra bcaa`s

The DOMS subside due to the morning raises being a flushing workout to remove latic acid build up and flush the muscles with fresh blood,keep them moving and stop them from tighting up and keep em pumped to enlarge capillary growth.

Yes Arnold did do something simular for his calves when he went out to south africa to train with his idol Reg Park,but Reg had him train em heavy EVERYDAY no pumping workouts.

You have to remember this is just a shock tactic to get the calves to grow and grow they do seen it happen a few times,best gains seen were just over an inch after the 3 cycles,but it takes dedication especially the morning pumping workouts(which have to be done as fast as possible).

So to recap

3 heavy sessions and 3 pumping sessions each week with the 7th day as rest(just as GOD himself intended)

2 weeks on 1 week off

Increasing the reps for the morning workouts every cycle by 100 reps.

I have another one aswell for the seriously brave:eek:

And even a thigh workout which put a 1/4 of perminent growth on my own thighs after just 1 workout:lift:

As for being brave spdr not really that brave just

ONE MAD COOKIE:gun:


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Lol, nice one Cookie.

One point though, you do 200 reps on your calves to flush OUT the lactic acid? You are hard mate there is nooo denying it 

SD


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

SportDr said:


> Lol, nice one Cookie.
> 
> One point though, you do 200 reps on your calves to flush OUT the lactic acid? You are hard mate there is nooo denying it
> 
> SD


weeks 1+2 100reps

week 3 rest

weeks 4+5 200reps

week 6 rest

weeks 7+8 300reps

week 9 have a pint on me you`ve just got bigger calves:beer: :lift:

I`m doubly hard when i manage 300 reps 

Saying that i used to do 300 rep leg workouts(thighs only) to bring the cuts out  :bounce: :bounce: 

When doing the flushing workout speed is important just bang em out as fast as poss and this does help with keeping the lactic down and the pump up.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

yo cookie inform me with the thigh wrkout u got me interested!!!...starting my calve cyce 2mrw!! cheers


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

I wouldnt advice doing both together but here goes.

You need a hamper of food as you`ll be in the gym for quite a few hrs,lmfao.

No seriously lots of protein shakes some carbs shakes a little creatine and lots of either bcaa`s or my fav a tub of dessicated liver tabs some kelp tabs and some brewers yeast tabs vit/min tabs.

You`ll be doing 3 workouts consisting of triple drop set of leg extensions straight into hack squats(triple drop) then front squats(triple drop) workout time about 10-15 mins no rest between exercises.

Hit the reception area and troff down the shakes tabs and creatine and rest an hr or so then do the same workout again repeat the refeed(you`ll find you`ll eat more this time)and rest a good 1.5-2hrs then do the workout 1 last time(you should feel like dying at this point and my ears should be burning with all the profanaties your saying about me)by this last workout you should only manage to be able to use your warm up weights and they should feel dam heavy.

Then massive refeed with whatever is available.

Go home rest massage feed sleep and grow.

The following are for sportsdr(save his typing fingers)lmao

Is it painfull/

You bet your life it is.

Will I be able to walk next day?

Not likely if done correctly.

Will I grow from it???

Sure will both in mass and attitude to being able to push yourself to new limits.

But its overtraining??

Not if you get the protein and aminos down it isnt plus their low volume so not too much stress on digestion and stomach as a whole.

Will I hate you at the end????

You better or you havent done it right

How much will I grow???

My legs were 2 inches bigger for about 7 days afterwards,then the swelling started to go down and I ended up with a total gain of 1/4 inch,but I didnt train legs again for 2 whole weeks as it just wasnt possible.

I give the above for informational and discussion only I accept no responsibility for time off work(due to walking like you`ve sh!t yourself badly)or falling out with wifes/girlfreinds etc cos they cant cuddle upto you in bed cos (a) your legs are sore (b)are huge due to swelling and new muscle growth.

Now go enjoy yourselfs my little cookie monsters in the making,lmfao

All hail the cookie

He`s mad bad but soft in the centre and ooohhhh so nice.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah but cookie, you walk over 50 miles a week and your calves are used to the volume. This is rather alot for the average joe who drives everywhere no doing world traveling walking around

Fat people have the biggest calves ever.

Mine are rather large @ 16.5"-17", I never train them. I am afraid they will get bigger and make my quads look smaller so I dont train them at all.

I take that back, I trained them once about 5 years ago and could not walk for 3 days


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

But I did all that before I became a postman


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

wicked cookie cheers mate.. i'll give that a bash... not looking foward to the next day tho...


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

I wouldn't knock anything till I tried it, shame I have just started Oppurtunitas or I would have 

Guess I will have to live it vicariously through DB, he needs the workout anyways 

SD


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

SportDr said:


> Guess I will have to live it vicariously through DB, he needs the workout anyways
> 
> SD


maybe u should try this one mate?? may get ur heart goin and u may drop abit of fat 

justr did legs 2day...i'll have to persuade my training partner to have a bash at the monster session tho!!

P.s SD...either unblock me or get on msn abit more  havent spoken to DN for a while


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> Fat people have the biggest calves ever.
> 
> Mine are rather large @ 16.5"-17", I never train them. I am afraid they will get bigger and make my quads look smaller so I dont train them at all.


So your admitting then that you`ve only got calves because your fat



> wicked cookie cheers mate.. i'll give that a bash... not looking foward to the next day tho...


My pleasure but if done right I wouldnt look forward to the next week:eek:



> shame I have just started Oppurtunitas or I would have


Stop looking for excuses ya big girl,we all know your scared of pain:boohoo:



> i'll have to persuade my training partner to have a bash at the monster session tho!!


I wouldnt bother...mine wouldnt do it so had to do it myself with the gym owner spotting me then having to help carry me off the gym floor after the 3rd workout....legs collapsed couldnt hold me up for about an hour and I needed to eat:bounce:

You can also use the same principle(multipule workouts + refeeds) to bing up lagging calves but that is another one not for the faint hearted:eek:

If your seriously going to do it DB I would shoot for at least 400-500grms protein at the gym alone(shakes aminos mostly) and spend a day or so working yourself up into a state to attack the workouts right as each one has to be total balls to the walls.

Have fun and hope it works well for ya like it did me:lift:


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> I wouldnt bother...mine wouldnt do it so had to do it myself with the gym owner spotting me then having to help carry me off the gym floor after the 3rd workout....legs collapsed couldnt hold me up for about an hour and I needed to eat:bounce:
> 
> You can also use the same principle(multipule workouts + refeeds) to bing up lagging calves but that is another one not for the faint hearted:eek:
> 
> ...


i sent him the thread yesterday and he seems up4 it... gonna wait till he's on a cycle to give it the full effect.. ok mate i'll take plenty of shakes and amino's with me.. did u have a week off legs before and after the session?

calves one starts 2day at the gym wahoo!! :bounce:


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

Quiz time...

Does hydroxyprolean acid cause muscle sorness or lactic acid?

(there is a correct answer)

part 2

what does conversion and cleaning of that acid cause in the body (hint type 2c)


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

dirty barry said:


> i sent him the thread yesterday and he seems up4 it... gonna wait till he's on a cycle to give it the full effect.. ok mate i'll take plenty of shakes and amino's with me.. did u have a week off legs before and after the session?
> 
> calves one starts 2day at the gym wahoo!! :bounce:


Did the leg workouts as normal durin the week then hit them with the routine on a saturday then didnt hit them again till all the soreness had gone,just wasnt possible to train and to do anymore would have been too much too soon.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

ChefX said:


> Quiz time...
> 
> Does hydroxyprolean acid cause muscle sorness or lactic acid?
> 
> ...


copy and paste

*Anti-tumour Agents *

Another potential role of fatty acids in the patient with malignant disease is as anti-tumour agents. Although they can cause immune suppression (see above) the metabolic pathways involved in EFA metabolism may be different between benign and malignant cells and this may be exploited as a potential anti-tumour therapy.

Although this area of EFA metabolism is complex, it is known that EFAs are susceptible to lipid peroxidation. Peroxidation is the process whereby molecules such as hydroxyl radicals, superoxide and oxygenated lipids are produced. These products can not only damage DNA but are also implicated in control of cell division. Rapidly proliferating tissues have lower levels of lipid peroxidation than do more slowly proliferating tissues.75,76 It is also know that malignant cells have higher levels of anti-oxidants and lower levels of the desaturated-EFA metabolites (derived from either gamma linolenic acid, arachidonic acid etc) than do normal cells. One reason for this that has been suggested is that the activity of the 6-desaturase enzymes is lower or absent in malignant cells, than those found in non-malignant cells.77 Therefore, in vitro studies have examined whether it is possible to by-pass the 6-desaturase enzyme system by adding certain EFAs such as gammalinolenic acid (GLA) to malignant cells grown in vitro in culture. Initial studies had demonstrated convincingly that the addition of GLA did result in cancer cell death, whereas normal cells were unaffected.78-80 Subsequently, pilot studies in man have suggested that EFA supplementation might possibly have some anti-tumour activity81-83, but further studies have still to be carried out to determine if there is a role for EFAs as anti-tumour agents in clinical practice.

An alternative role of EFAs may be to potentiate the activity of chemotherapeutic agents against malignant cells. Experimental studies have shown that EFAs do increase the sensitivity of malignant cells to a variety of chemotherapeutic drugs.84,85 Furthermore, studies in animal tumour models have shown that it is possible to potentiate the effects of chemotherapy, in vivo, with dietary supplementation with EFAs.86 Although similar studies in man have not, as yet, been carried out, it has been shown that the content of the n-3 EFA, docosahexaenoic acid, in the tumour does correlate with the clinical response to neoadjuvant chemotherapy in patients with breast cancer.87 The higher the docosahexaenoic acid content in the tumour, the better the clinical response to chemotherapy.87

Whilst there may be many reasons for this effect, it has been suggested that the activity of chemotherapeutic agents may be altered, in vivo in man, by the availability of certain fatty acids. This effect may be due to an increased peroxidation in the tumour, or, alternatively, the cell membrane composition may be altered by the EFAs resulting in an increased membrane fluidity and increased drug accumulation within the tumour cell.

Going by the above I would say the hydroxyprolene but going by he next bit I found

Flexibility Benefits


Increased blood flow to all tissues

More oxygen and nutrients for repair and growth

Efficient removal of toxic wastes (lactic acid & hydroxyprolene)

Increased range of motion (ROM)

Less recovery needed from sports or workouts

Decreased risk of injury


I would say that both have a roll to play in muscle soreness.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

dirty barry said:


> P.s SD...either unblock me or get on msn abit more  havent spoken to DN for a while


Lol, I had to stop automatic log on with MSN as I wasn't getting any work done. I will be back soon my young friend....oh and DN too 

SD


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Train em heavy at the gym then the next day get up and do 100 standing toe raises against a wall.
> 
> Next day train em heavy again followed by 100 reps the next morning and so on for 2 weeks then rest a week and see the results.
> 
> ...


Do you train everthing like this, (eg BIceps, delts), i seen the quad workout posted aswell.

If you had an arm workout similar I would be interested in trying it, would love to shock biceps like that, ofcourse i wouldnt be able to type for a week after.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

samurai69 said:


> Do you train everthing like this, (eg BIceps, delts), i seen the quad workout posted aswell.
> 
> If you had an arm workout similar I would be interested in trying it, would love to shock biceps like that, ofcourse i wouldnt be able to type for a week after.


I have done in the past when I was seriously into competing but getting old now so I like to tone down the intensity.

I suppose you could use the above format for biceps but it would be bloody tough going and arms would be dam sore.

The only arm routine I can remember using is to do a set of curls for biceps every half hour throughout the day,so you need a day when you know your going to be at home or in the gym(if you own one).

You do one heavy set 8-10 reps then next time round do one high rep set 30-50 pumping reps and just repeat the sequence throughout the day.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> The only arm routine I can remember using is to do a set of curls for biceps every half hour throughout the day,so you need a day when you know your going to be at home or in the gym(if you own one).
> 
> You do one heavy set 8-10 reps then next time round do one high rep set 30-50 pumping reps and just repeat the sequence throughout the day.


I reckon i could probably manage that more or less, set the alarm for 30 minute slots, might be a bit short on the heavier sets at home, but could probably pop to the gym every hour (cant imagine what they will think down there)

Its coming up to the easter hols so will have a day to do that I am sure

CHEERS O S C


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