# Vitamin B6 and MK677 combined?



## Essex666 (May 24, 2017)

Whats up,

More-so a curiosity than anything else. Not much research available still on MK677 aside from the obvious GH related benefits.

So I have recently started supplementing with 300mg daily of vit B6 for hormone balance (as a preventative of potential unwanted sides when on blast).

Unfortunately no info at all that I can find regarding stacking MK with non steroidal compounds... so my question is this:

Do you think that supplementing B6 along with MK might reduce the effects of what the MK is supposed to achieve? I.E. would it down regulate something which has artificially been boosted?

This obviously wouldn't apply to steroids, but because MK only boosts your natural production, obviously this could be something to consider? Frankly I would rather not waste the MK that's all. Just not sure how to go about finding a definitive answer outside of asking here 1st.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

I wouldnt use mk anyway, horrible compound. Water retention for days. I think I dropped around 11 pounds in 3 days when I dropped it, was so lethargic no wonder with almost a stone of excess water.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

a better stack would be MK677 with cjc 1295 dac (ghrp and ghrh) and either 500mg titrated up to 1g of glucophage per day (alonside 1000mcg of b12) or preferably a basal insulin like lantus at 1-2iu per kg of bw (however much it takes to get your FBG within range)

yes i am firmly of the belief you will be a damn sight healthier and safer combining MK677 with insulin than you will if you didnt where it is so hard on blood glucose

im fairly confident in those that dont 'feel' the sides of mk677 running it for months on end are going to pay a price over the next few years

im sure we will end up seeing some mk677 related diabetes over the next 10 years or so with some of the messages i get, blood glucose levels i have to advise on and sheer ignorance to this side effect in general on message boards and social media

guys are walking around with literal diabetic blood glucose levels worried about gh desensitization....

preemptively addressing any rise in blood glucose should be the number one concern to get in line before continuing to run MK677

then you can start looking into huperzine a, egcg and melatonin as a comparatively minor after thought


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

swole troll said:


> a better stack would be MK677 with cjc 1295 dac (ghrp and ghrh) and either 500mg titrated up to 1g of glucophage per day (alonside 1000mcg of b12) or preferably a basal insulin like lantus at 1-2iu per kg of bw (however much it takes to get your FBG within range)
> 
> yes i am firmly of the belief you will be a damn sight healthier and safer combining MK677 with insulin than you will if you didnt where it is so hard on blood glucose
> 
> ...


 Excellent post and I completely agree.

I personally don't see a place for MK for these reasons. I'm not saying it won't produce results, but having to add more drugs to combat the issues it's causing makes me seriously question whether those results are worth it.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Bensif said:


> Excellent post and I completely agree.
> 
> I personally don't see a place for MK for these reasons. I'm not saying it won't produce results, but having to add more drugs to combat the issues it's causing makes me seriously question whether those results are worth it.


 its so specific for me in terms of when id use it

for example at the end of a bulk / blast when weight gain was slowing significantly i might add in 700mcg of cjc 1295 per week alongside 20mg of mk677 and 30-50iu of lantus and run that for 4-6 weeks with the intention of finishing the blast and doing either a 24hr fast, a low carb diet and or taking a gram of glucophage daily and just allowing fasted bg readings be my indicator for when i can return to normal living / not focusing all my efforts on fixing insulin sensitivity

but equally i 100% understand those with a bit of knowledge not wanting to use it at all (it's the unread folk that are blasting it willy nilly)

its an extremely messy means of marginally raising gh and when you factor in the costs of all i listed above you're getting close to an equivalent dose of generic gh with a fraction of the side effects and the subsequent ability to run it much longer.

by and large im all for your body your choice but as far as PEDs go id actually like to see mk677 become a substance that's illegal to distribute just to cut down on availability and naivety toward the compound's lack of safety


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

swole troll said:


> its so specific for me in terms of when id use it
> 
> for example at the end of a bulk / blast when weight gain was slowing significantly i might add in 700mcg of cjc 1295 per week alongside 20mg of mk677 and 30-50iu of lantus and run that for 4-6 weeks with the intention of finishing the blast and doing either a 24hr fast, a low carb diet and or taking a gram of glucophage daily and just allowing fasted bg readings be my indicator for when i can return to normal living / not focusing all my efforts on fixing insulin sensitivity
> 
> ...


 I was discussing this with my other half in regards to SARMs and why they aren't / weren't approved for human use. Her domain of work is pharmaceutical and medical device regulations. Whilst the papers supporting the potential efficacy of certain compounds appear compelling, the clinical data or lack of (if a drug doesn't make it to trial) is often quite telling.

That's my biggest concern with SARMs in general; as bar tren and EQ most common steroids were at one point approved for human use.

With regards to MK, I've also used it in a similar fashion but did not use insulin and instead used it in conjunction with fasted cardio, carb cycling, berberine and glucophage. It would still lead to raised fasted BG readings but it was much faster to bring this back to baseline post cessation.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Bensif said:


> I was discussing this with my other half in regards to SARMs and why they aren't / weren't approved for human use. Her domain of work is pharmaceutical and medical device regulations. Whilst the papers supporting the potential efficacy of certain compounds appear compelling, the clinical data or lack of (if a drug doesn't make it to trial) is often quite telling.
> 
> That's my biggest concern with SARMs in general; as bar tren and EQ most common steroids were at one point approved for human use.
> 
> With regards to MK, I've also used it in a similar fashion but did not use insulin and instead used it in conjunction with fasted cardio, carb cycling, berberine and glucophage. It would still lead to raised fasted BG readings but it was much faster to bring this back to baseline post cessation.


 which is a shame as the only 2 sarms that appealed to me before id fully read up on them was mk677 and cardarine

but diabetes and cancer? no thanks

i know thats a bit of a brash statement but they seem like real potentials of their use (diabetes 100% if left unmonitored and treated with mk)

as far as the direct anabolic sarms my only interest was as a little boost to a cruise but they still naff cholesterol so again wrote them all off since if im accepting a knock on cholesterol and general health id rather just run tried and tested (on humans as you said) steroids

the last 10 years has really created a big batch of guinea pigs as far as sarms and peptides are concerned

all these people increasing risk of cancer, jacking their pituitary into overdrive and dumping all its endogenous gh multiple times a day and walking around with blood as sweet as candy floss

like i said i think we'll start to see the true negatives of these compounds over the next decade or so as usage has sky rocketed


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## JohnnySack (Aug 28, 2019)

Do you not think Ligandrol and RAD140 are now considered safe for human use ? I thought these are the two that have pretty much won the race ?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

JohnnySack said:


> Do you not think Ligandrol and RAD140 are now considered safe for human use ? I thought these are the two that have pretty much won the race ?


 I am not sure about ligandrol but RAD140 has not completed clinical trials yet and thus is not approved for human use. Sometimes drugs need to go through several rounds of clinical trials which can span a decade.


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## nickc300 (Feb 14, 2014)

swole troll said:


> which is a shame as the only 2 sarms that appealed to me before id fully read up on them was mk677 and cardarine
> 
> but diabetes and cancer? no thanks
> 
> ...


 So has cardarine been linked to cancer? I've been reading up on it in regards to its benefits with endurance sports but I've not seen any studies that show this in test with animals.

By no means am I disputing this. I'm looking for more info on it though.

If the risks do outweigh the benefits then it definately is not for me.

What else is out there to improve endurance that isn't to detrimental to health?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

nickc300 said:


> So has cardarine been linked to cancer? I've been reading up on it in regards to its benefits with endurance sports but I've not seen any studies that show this in test with animals.
> 
> By no means am I disputing this. I'm looking for more info on it though.
> 
> ...


 I'll link the abstract below but TLDR it caused multiple cancerous tumours to grow in rats

In these studies they used an equvilant dosage with mg per kg and span of time to 40mg of cardarine taken daily for 4 months by a 90kg human

Sure this is more than a human would typically take and this study is on rodents but I dunno.. you really want to be part of the human trials?

To improve endurance without a detriment to health? Well without sound like a patronizing asshole... cardio?

I get what you're getting at but your options are epo, blood doping, living and training at altitude, cardarine or you could go the anabolic route of eq or anadrol to increase red blood cell production but the added anabolism would hinder your endurance so that wouldn't really work.

Study:

GW501516, a non-genotoxic PPARδ agonist, was assessed for carcinogenic potential by daily administration (oral gavage) to Han Wistar rats for a period of 104 weeks. Males were given 0, 5, 15 or 30 mg/kg/day for the first 6 weeks of the study. For the remainder of the study males were given 0, 5, 20 or 40 mg/kg/day. Females were given 0, 3, 10 or 20 mg/kg/day for the entire study. GW501516 produced test article-related neoplastic findings in multiple tissues at all doses.

Increased mortality was seen with females given GW501516 at all doses and uterine endometrial adenocarcinoma contributed to death in a high proportion of these animals. Neoplasms considered test-article related occurred in the liver (hepatocellular adenoma at ≥ 10 mg/kg/day), urinary bladder (transitional cell carcinoma in males given 20 and 40 mg/kg/day), thyroid (follicular cell adenoma at ≥ 3 mg/kg/day and carcinoma in males at ≥ 20 mg/kg/day), tongue (squamous cell papilloma in males at 5 mg/kg/day and 40 mg/kg/day), stomach (squamous cell papilloma in males at ≥ 5 mg/kg/day and a female at 20 mg/kg/day, and carcinoma in a male at 40 mg/kg/day and a female at 3 mg/kg/day), skin (inverted squamous cell papilloma in males at ≥ 5 mg/kg/day and females at 3 or 20 mg/kg/day), Harderian glands (adenoma in males at ≥ 5 mg/kg/day and adenocarcinoma in a male at 40 mg/kg/day), testes (interstitial cell adenoma at 40 mg/kg/day), ovary (Sertoli cell adenoma at ≥ 10 mg/kg/day) and uterus (polyp and endometrial adenocarcinoma at ≥ 3 mg/kg/day). Some of the tumor types observed in this study have not been reported with either PPARα or PPARγ agonists and may reflect tumor promotion mediated through PPARδ agonism.


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