# We’ve been robbed of our Englishness-Jeremy Clarkson



## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

As the nation settled down on Wednesday night to watch England play Croatia, I sensed an air of optimism in the land. A feeling that all would be well. I mean hey, England were holding their own against Brazil when Croatia didn't even exist as a nation state. So what chance would these swarthy-looking Yugo-ruffians have? They were minnows in a tank of sharks. They weren't going to be beaten. They were going to be eaten.

Hmmm. I'm afraid I knew we were going to lose moments before the match began. I looked at our players mumbling their way through the national anthem and realised they didn't really care about playing for England. Because they don't really know what England is. And truth be told, neither do I.

When I was their age it was crystal clear. Newspapers would report: "Fog in the Channel: Europe cut off." Peter Ustinov would arrive at JFK airport and, having studied the signs saying "US citizens" and "Aliens", he'd ask a security guard where the British should go. We were separate, different, better.

We had hardback dark blue passports with a personal message from the Queen on the inside cover "requiring" that foreign border guards allow the bearer to do whatever he or she pleased without let or hindrance. Slap one of those down on a Frenchman's desk and the crack of invitation grade cardboard would have the greasy little oik sitting up straight; that's for sure.

We had saved the world from tyranny so often we'd lost count; we'd brought decency, truth and cricket to every continent and every coral pinprick. We'd sailed iron steamships into America when they were still using coracles. We were defined by our brilliance, our superiority, our technical know-how.

Today, things are rather different. Mention the war and you'll be told by an outreach counsellor that we must empathise with the Germans, who are coming to terms with their mistakes of the past. "And you know, children, it was actually the British who invented concentration camps . . ."

Empire? When I was at school, teachers spoke with pride about how a little island in the north Atlantic turned a quarter of the world pink, but now all teachers talk about is the slave trade and how we must hang our heads in shame.

Right. So we must forgive Germany for invading Poland. But I must beat myself to death every night because my great-great-great-grandad moved some chap from a hellhole in Ghana to Barbados. In fact I can't even say we're British any more because then all of Scotland would rush over the border, pour porridge down my trousers and push a thistle up my bottom.

I believe people need to feel like they're part of a gang, part of a tribe. And I also believe we need to feel pride in our gang. But all we ever hear now is that we in England have nothing to be proud about. In a world of righteousness we are the child molesters and rapists.

Our soldiers were murderers. Our empire builders were thieves. Our class system was ridiculous and our industrial revolution set in motion a chain of events that, eventually, will kill every polar bear in the Arctic.

And it gets so much worse. Because if you say you are a patriot, men with beards and sandals will come round to your house in the night and daub BNP slogans on your front door. This is the only country in the world where the national flag is deemed offensive. Small wonder the England players were disinclined to sing the national anthem with any gusto. It's in English and that's offensive too. Unless it's simultaneously translated into Urdu, for the deaf.

Then there's our national character. In the past, boys were told in school assembly that their mothers had died and were expected to get over it in a nice game of rugby. Crying only happened abroad. Not any more. We were ordered to weep like Americans when Diana died, and no local news report is complete today without some fat oik sobbing because his house has fallen over. I sometimes get the impression Kate McCann is being hounded precisely because she has a stiff upper lip.

Every day we read obituaries about men who pressed on with the attack on a German machinegun nest even though their arms and legs had been blown off. Today disabled people get a statue in Trafalgar Square just because they got pregnant. Tomorrow all the obituaries will be for those who saved others from certain death by insisting they wear high visibility jackets. Cowardice is the new bravery.

As for that wounded soldier seen recently sporting a T-shirt that said: "I went to Afghanistan and all I got was this crappy false leg," I call that typically English. But not any more. It's appalling. A slight on disabled people. And you shouldn't have been in Afghanistan in the first place, you baby killer.

Do you see? We can't be proud of our past because it's all bad, we can't use British humour because it's offensive and we can't use understatement to deal with a crisis because the army of state-sponsored counsellors say we've got to sob uncontrollably at every small thing.

I want to end with a question. It's addressed to all the equal opportunity, human rights, diet carbon, back room, bleeding heart liberals who advise the government: "I am English. Why is that a good thing?"

I bet they don't have an answer. And until they can come up with one, chances are we'll never win at football again.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

How true that is. Clarkson is someone i admire so much, because in todays world he still stands up for what he believes in and doen't care who he upsets. He really is a hero of mine, and a true patriot.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Not that I care in the slightest about our football team, I love that article and agree 100%.


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## johnboy05 (May 13, 2007)

Clarkson for PM!


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I loved wacthing that series he did on brunel and other great british inventors.

It's so true how in todays England, it is seen as a shame to be English, there is just no pride from the masses anymore. This is why I feel that there is no hope left for my children, and if it doesn't change in the next few years I can see us moving to another country


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

clarkson is a legend


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## genesis (Jul 4, 2006)

good post where was that taken from


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

If I ever see that man the drinks are one me..............:beer1:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

genesis said:


> good post where was that taken from


Fcuk knows, Got emailed to me


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

clarkson is a legend, always comes up with brilliant stuff and speaks the truth


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## kyrocera (Oct 13, 2004)

Superb!

Agree 100%

/signed


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

i liked 99% of it and agreed but didnt like him saying "if you say you are a patriot, men with beards and sandals will come round to your house in the night and daub BNP slogans on your front door." why does it have to be men with beards and sandals?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Great post, totally agree 

Reps dude!


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

I love Clarkson... brilliant wordsmith who speaks a lot of truth... I am not English, heck not even British (yet) but he speaks alot of truth here... its about time Englishmen can show the same pride in their country as many others do and not be called racist bigots with a wide streak of loutishness... England (and the UK) has done much to be proud of...


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Makes me laugh how councils are always telling people to take st george flags down. My mate had a porch with a st george on it and was told to take it down as it was advertising England and he had no right to do it. He was told that a st goerge can only be displayed on a proper flagpole, s he bought one and had it put about 30 ft up. It was in the paper.

Hackskii, do americans ever get told to take the stars and stripes down because it causes offence to minorities? This is what we have to put up with. We are not allowed to fly our flag over our doors in case it upsets minority faiths....unbelievable don't you think??


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

robsta9 said:


> Makes me laugh how councils are always telling people to take st george flags down. My mate had a porch with a st george on it and was told to take it down as it was advertising England and he had no right to do it. He was told that a st goerge can only be displayed on a proper flagpole, s he bought one and had it put about 30 ft up. It was in the paper.
> 
> Hackskii, do americans ever get told to take the stars and stripes down because it causes offence to minorities? This is what we have to put up with. We are not allowed to fly our flag over our doors in case it upsets minority faiths....unbelievable don't you think??


its ok for the irish on st patricks day to display theirs tho (not that i have a prob with that, dont like guiness tho lol)


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I honestly see more pakistan flags around bedford, than I do st george's flags. Apart from football tournaments. I've got nothing against pakistanis but i do have something against a system that does not allow me to be proud of my country by flying my flag, yet allows other countries to do so.

It makes you realise why the BNP are emerging. people are turning to them because there are no other parties prepared to mention immigration and british history. (I do not agree with them whatsoever by the way)

This whole european thing gets to me. I hate europe, want tnothing to do with it, but labour just sign us up to something they promised not to without a refurendum. Yet nothing can be done about it. I just sometimes do not understand how democracy is supposed to work


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## squat_this (Jan 14, 2006)

I spent 2 days painting the english flag on the railings outside my old house a few years back, it was against the rules however so once the footie finished I had to paint it back!


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

That was a good read :lol:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

robsta9 said:


> I honestly see more pakistan flags around bedford, than I do st george's flags. Apart from football tournaments. I've got nothing against pakistanis but i do have something against a system that does not allow me to be proud of my country by flying my flag, yet allows other countries to do so.
> 
> It makes you realise why the BNP are emerging. people are turning to them because there are no other parties prepared to mention immigration and british history. (I do not agree with them whatsoever by the way)
> 
> This whole european thing gets to me. I hate europe, want tnothing to do with it, but labour just sign us up to something they promised not to without a refurendum. Yet nothing can be done about it. I just sometimes do not understand how democracy is supposed to work


Yet again i agree with you robsta, we dont live in a democracy, I see what you mean about the BNP and atho i dont support them either a few years back was they not legitimately voted in on the isle of dogs???

But how long was it before they were forced out as it was "not politically correct", now what i dont understand if we do live in this "so called" democracy, how was they able to forced out as they won the election fair and square????


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

This government is nothing close to democracy... It's actually near facist but somehow with both liberal political reactions and right wing business policies... About as far away from the original concept of "Labour" as one could get.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

The main parties are genuinely scared of the BNP's support so they use the racism card to shut them down when they can. imo anyway.

Yes they are racist which is why I don't support them, however they also have some good ideas on immigration....such as stopping it for a start


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

the trouble with englishness is that it hasn't really existed for too many years now...

what is england or being english? Is it supporting a lashed together team that rarely win a game, let alone a tournament? is it supporting a way of life? that same way of life that doesn't let you fly the union flag?

when we do have champions, are they held up as heroes? are they beggar... Carl Foggarty.. world champ several years running... who got sportsman of the year?.. some overpaid ball kicker...

Clarkson is right... England WAS great... It had pride, it had achievement, it had industry, it had technical skills... all it has now is ASBO's and chavs...

Like Robsta... if it don't get better i'm off to the colonies....


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

robsta9 said:


> The main parties are genuinely scared of the BNP's support so they use the racism card to shut them down when they can. imo anyway.
> 
> Yes they are racist which is why I don't support them, however they also have some good ideas on immigration....such as stopping it for a start


The BNP aren't gaining in popularity. They had a reduced proportion of the last general election as I recall. I'll try and dig out the figures. They are a tiny minority and have ideas that would make your skin crawl mate.

The reason people shut them up is because they try to incite racial hatred allegedly. I would be for hearing them more often myself - thought the Oxford Union was right on this one.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Yeah have to agree with him, but what would you expect from a Yorkshireman but straight talking 

Some things have become pathetic in this country, infact no, ill rephrase that, loads of stuff has become pathetic, pussy footying around other religions because it might offend them, eg, the Union flag and Englishness in general, well tbh they can all go fvck themselves IMO, this is our country of birth and we should look at it this way, if ppl arn't happy with the things we do, then sod off for gods sake.

Many of us work damn hard and pay tax, and for what, like he says, a lot think we should hang our heads in shame etc, well fvck that, Im proud of the Empire we made, yes we were ruthless at times, but thats what made us what we are today, its a shame their arn't more ppl in the public eye like Clarkson, he'd make a great MP IMO.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

robsta9 said:


> The main parties are genuinely scared of the BNP's support so they use the racism card to shut them down when they can. imo anyway.
> 
> Yes they are racist which is why I don't support them, however they also have some good ideas on immigration....such as stopping it for a start


Nick Griffin spoke at a pub in Barnsley the other week and I went to see what he had to say, the policies will never work and *I don't agree* with 50% of what he says, but* I do agree *with 50% of what he said, he makes valid points.

And for what its worth the BNP could potentially be a very big threat to other parties, they just need to get the right ppl on board, like Robsta said though, other parties do a lot to discredit them and pull them down with the racist tag, when in theory most of us would agree on immigration issues and so forth, Id fvckin vote for them and im not afraid to say it.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I'd vote for them to scare other parties into doing something on immigration, but I'd never vote for them to run the country. Not as their policies are now.

Every single party lknows that immigration is out of control. So why not just stop it right now, until they sort something out and come up with a policy between them. It's no good srguing on immigration and public services struggling to cope, and at the same time keeping the door open while they figure out what to do.

Spain have an almighty problem too, with the africans turning up at the canary islands. Their problem is probably not far/more severe than ours. Not too sure how bad but i know it is quite bad.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

robsta9 said:


> I'd vote for them to scare other parties into doing something on immigration, but I'd never vote for them to run the country. Not as their policies are now.
> 
> Every single party lknows that immigration is out of control. So why not just stop it right now, until they sort something out and come up with a policy between them. It's no good srguing on immigration and public services struggling to cope, and at the same time keeping the door open while they figure out what to do.
> 
> Spain have an almighty problem too, with the africans turning up at the canary islands. Their problem is probably not far/more severe than ours. Not too sure how bad but i know it is quite bad.


The government seriously need to put a full block on immigrants entering, fvck land of the free bollocks etc, read in the paper that sheltered camps in both Hungary and Poland have housed a weeks worth of immigrants in one day, the EU is scrapping border control for member countries which means these fukers can enter freely now from Poland, Bulgaria, you name it.......tbh its bloody worrying, by my own admittance Barnsley is a very time warped place and can be a very racist place, but im in utter amazement at the effect open door immigration has had in town, its incredible, 2-3 yrs ago you'd be lucky to find more than 4-5 foreign kids in schools, god knows what its like now.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

The whole problem is those in power and who make the decisions don't see the every day problems that we do. They have no genuine idea of the scale of it. To them it's just racist britons making a problem out of nothing. They will never be poor enough for it to matter. With their ridiculous pay rises voted in by themselves. their fat cat pensions, private health care, they will never encounter the problems that us commoners do so they cannot see the scale of the problem. It's only when the media start bleating do the gov't start to listen.

I really cannot for the life of me understans how Brown can renege on a promise of a referendum on the EU and nothing whatsoever can be done about it. fcuk the EU, I want nothing to do with it, and they know this which is why no referendum will ever be given to us. Either on the treaty, or the EU as a whole. We're an Island, always have done ok on our own. Now what does the EU do for us, apart from cause us hassle with ridiculous laws, and un-elected thieving beaurocrats. The fiddle the funds every year yet no-one gets taken to account. They are as bad as the thieving African leaders who steal the country's wealth


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

robsta9 said:


> The whole problem is those in power and who make the decisions don't see the every day problems that we do. They have no genuine idea of the scale of it. To them it's just racist britons making a problem out of nothing. They will never be poor enough for it to matter. With their ridiculous pay rises voted in by themselves. their fat cat pensions, private health care, they will never encounter the problems that us commoners do so they cannot see the scale of the problem. It's only when the media start bleating do the gov't start to listen.
> 
> I really cannot for the life of me understans how Brown can renege on a promise of a referendum on the EU and nothing whatsoever can be done about it. fcuk the EU, I want nothing to do with it, and they know this which is why no referendum will ever be given to us. Either on the treaty, or the EU as a whole. We're an Island, always have done ok on our own. Now what does the EU do for us, apart from cause us hassle with ridiculous laws, and un-elected thieving beaurocrats. The fiddle the funds every year yet no-one gets taken to account. They are as bad as the thieving African leaders who steal the country's wealth


Rob, totally agree, like you say, many live well away from areas that we ahve to live in and seldom do they have to put up with the sh1t we do, the EU IMO benefits from US being in it, not the other way around, obviously I don't know in detail what it actually does for us but surely we'd be better off on our own, fvck the Euro, fvck the EU tbh.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I'm all in favour of Europe, as long as England runs it


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

Regarding the BNP

I believe more and more people will begin voting for them as it has now got to the stage where the working classes are thrown to the back of the queue and treated like sh1t in their own country.

I dont think people want to vote BNP,due to the extremism,but they feel driven to it as its a last option at getting themselves heard and making the statement "we've had enough" and that things need to change.

Zero tolerance,national service and a complete overhaul of the benefits system would be a start then maybe this once proud nation would not be on it's knees and wouldn't be such an attractive proposition to the worlds leeches.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

superb agree totally-and by the way not all scotsman are anti english in fact i support england in rugbt and football(unless we are in it) as that is the nearest country to mine-also have met some top blokes from all over england when on courses,also the scots played a huge part in the british armys achievements - and still do


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

paulo said:


> superb agree totally-and by the way not all scotsman are anti english in fact i support england in rugbt and football(unless we are in it) as that is the nearest country to mine-also have met some top blokes from all over england when on courses,also the scots played a huge part in the british armys achievements - and still do


Shame most scots dont think like you mate


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

jw007 said:


> Shame most scots dont think like you mate


Agreed,listening to the recent footy phone in's it was very apparent that the majority fooking hate us! and here was me cheering them on against the Italians,oh well.


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## justdiscovering (May 10, 2007)

proud to be around patriots for a change could say more but i dont want to inspire racial hatred just because i have the pride to say enough is enough and immigration should be stopped.bang on clarkson hes the man along with all you other true englishmen.


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

i'll ask again then...

what is englishness?

I understand pride in your country. I understand pride in national achievement. I am english, sure... I was born in N London, and abide by the rules of the land (well mostly!), respect the fact that this society is multi cultural.

I still cannot figure out englishness though..... What is it to be english? Someone define it for me in simple terms....


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

Having respect for others,contributing to society,standing up for what is right and knowing every verse of Land of hope and glory! kidding on the last one!


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

PARAMANIAC said:


> Having respect for others,contributing to society,standing up for what is right and knowing every verse of Land of hope and glory! kidding on the last one!


i'll go with that..... (including the last one!)

is knowing the language part of it too?


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## jazzmc (Oct 14, 2011)

Two good ones ive witnessed,the wee lad in my sons class (hes 5) got told to turn his shorts inside out at gym time as they had a saltire on them and might be offensive to other pupils,and my mate got turned away from the local golf club as he had a Scotland top on,we were going in to watch the scotland game.

Unbelievable :crazy:


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## newkidonthebloc (May 19, 2007)

Porky Pie said:


> The reason people shut them up is because they try to incite racial hatred allegedly.


and the current government and its 'thinktank' dont? lol.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

Well done Clarkson. I think ill be copying and pasting that to a few people. I live in Newham. voted the 3rd worst area in the UK. and with a very multiculturala society. IT also has one of the highest rates of crime, TB and HIV!!!!! We had all the s*it about not beng able to fly English or british flags a few years ago uring the celebrations of 50 years since the war! i mean come on!!!

How right is clarkson about being made to feel guilty about our past. People walng through London chained together protesting....... DEMANDING an apology fromt he govenment over the slave trade!!!!

I have spoken to people from many nations and had it said to me....your country went around the world and raped other countires, so now we come to your country to take what we can get. there will be now england and no English one day.

a polish girl i know that is working and studying here, an intelligent girl was telling me how she can't believe what this country is like. How we give hand outs and are being overun and that she see's local people being treated bad by govenments/councils while non speaking english people flood in and are given hand outs....I felt releaved to hear a non english person talk like this (pathetic eh) as you begin to feel like your being out of order if you have that opinion as an Englishman, some one will brand you racist!

I have also spent a couple of months in Walse. go to wales and tell a welshman that he cant fly the national flag in his pub or in his home window.....then duck!

the question is....How do we change it? what are we doing to change it?


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## The Project (Jul 21, 2007)

Clarksons wife's father, was a VC in the 2nd world war. Took on half of Germany elite panza division, blew up the tanks with hand arms (rocket launcher for want of a better name), half dead and blind he still kick their ass and survived. He therefore is extremely proud of what his father-in-law did, as should we all be to all those has fought and died in the past and present, and those still defending our freedom in the UK.


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## albie (Mar 16, 2007)

The reason people shut them up is because they try to incite racial hatred allegedly. I would be for hearing them more often myself - thought the Oxford Union was right on this one.


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## wildcard996 (Sep 28, 2007)

Totally agree with all of you patriots whether it be English, Scottish, Irish, or Welsh.

Clarkson is a excellent journalist and patriot. At the moment reading one of his books.

The article that started this thread, and many more can be found at:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/


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## Patch (May 30, 2007)

megatron said:


> I'm all in favour of Europe, as long as England *AND WALES* runs it


as said above ^^^


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

albie said:


> The reason people shut them up is because they try to incite racial hatred allegedly. I would be for hearing them more often myself - thought the Oxford Union was right on this one.


Whilst i am not denying that the BNP may incite racial hatred - the government/police appear to turn a blind eye/deaf ear to all the hatred spouted by the extreme islamic clerics - Hamza etc, if you want to experience racial hatred , walk through some of the 'minority' areas of Bradford day or night - but its not pc to mention this because racism is something practiced by whites on others - or so we are made to feel and believe.


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## Patch (May 30, 2007)

Slamdog said:


> i'll ask again then...
> 
> what is englishness?


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

fits said:


> the question is....How do we change it? what are we doing to change it?


Thats the main thing. We can complain all we want really, and in the end the country will stay as it is.

Or the energy that would be used/wasted bitching and moaning about the state of the country could be used in a more creative manner to actually do something.

So many people thinking along the same lines and no one stands up and does something, why is that?


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Let me just make a strong point here. Not all immigrants are bad. I agree with controlled immigration, but controlled it must be. I just do not agree with the british citizens of birthright suffering because of it.


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## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

Five-O said:


> Yeah have to agree with him, but what would you expect from a Yorkshireman but straight talking
> 
> Some things have become pathetic in this country, infact no, ill rephrase that, loads of stuff has become pathetic, pussy footying around other religions because it might offend them, eg, the Union flag and Englishness in general, well tbh they can all go fvck themselves IMO, this is our country of birth and we should look at it this way, if ppl arn't happy with the things we do, then sod off for gods sake.
> 
> Many of us work damn hard and pay tax, and for what, like he says, a lot think we should hang our heads in shame etc, well fvck that, Im proud of the Empire we made, yes we were ruthless at times, but thats what made us what we are today, its a shame their arn't more ppl in the public eye like Clarkson, he'd make a great MP IMO.


:hail::hail:. Excellent !!!

Reps for that


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cap said:


> So many people thinking along the same lines and no one stands up and does something, why is that?


Because ultimately it comes down to getting involved in politics if you want results. And when that happens, the big parties smear the small ones, paint them with a race hatred brush through the media or something similiar and nothing happens, the cycle continues, people become more and more disenchanted and apathetic and life continues to get worse.

Whilst democracy and the freedom it has given us is fantastic, the people involved in it end up ****ing everyone else over to stay in their jobs.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

13stonetarget said:


> Because ultimately it comes down to getting involved in politics if you want results. And when that happens, the big parties smear the small ones, paint them with a race hatred brush through the media or something similiar and nothing happens, the cycle continues, people become more and more disenchanted and apathetic and life continues to get worse.


so what your saying is, quit while your ahead? I wonder what the country would have been like had the men and women who fought for us in the 2 world wars had decided that the armies they were fighting against were too difficult, too massive and just quit....

and besides that who says you have to go the political route?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cap said:


> so what your saying is, quit while your ahead? I wonder what the country would have been like had the men and women who fought for us in the 2 world wars had decided that the armies they were fighting against were too difficult, too massive and just quit....
> 
> and besides that who says you have to go the political route?


That's definitely not what I'm saying, but I reckon ultimately it's what happens.

Give me a scenario where you can change things on a large scale without getting involved in politics?


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Cap said:


> so what your saying is, quit while your ahead? I wonder what the country would have been like had the men and women who fought for us in the 2 world wars had decided that the armies they were fighting against were too difficult, too massive and just quit....
> 
> and besides that who says you have to go the political route?


What do you suggest then mate?


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

13stonetarget said:


> That's definitely not what I'm saying, but I reckon ultimately it's what happens.
> 
> Give me a scenario where you can change things on a large scale without getting involved in politics?


Revolution 



megatron said:


> What do you suggest then mate?


I dont know mate, kick the current government out?

to me us complaining about the state of the country and not doing anything is no different than a fat person complaining about their weight and not doing anything about it.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

"If you travel to Germany, it's still absolutely Germany. If you travel to Sweden, it still has a Swedish identity. But travel to England and you have no idea where you are," the singer is reported to have said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7118412.stm


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

megatron said:


> What do you suggest then mate?


Read about Rosa Parks and the Black Civil Rights movement in the States. It took one little woman on her own to start that, just by refusing to be told where to sit on a bus.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cap said:


> I dont know mate, kick the current government out?


Okay, now lets do one which doesn't involve fantasy worlds 



Cap said:


> to me us complaining about the state of the country and not doing anything is no different than a fat person complaining about their weight and not doing anything about it.


I can see why you're drawing the parallel, but lets be honest, an individual has control over their body weight. An individual does not have power over the political system in the country without getting involved in politics...


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## Porky Pie (Aug 2, 2007)

13stonetarget said:


> Okay, now lets do one which doesn't involve fantasy worlds
> 
> I can see why you're drawing the parallel, but lets be honest, an individual has control over their body weight. An individual does not have power over the political system in the country without getting involved in politics...


Here's an intersting article, worth reading:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200010020018


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

Should let immigrants in who can benefit our society, doctors etc. We all need them, the ones who come in and then claim benefits, fvck off. If your a true asylum seeker from say Zimbabwe, I'll let you in.

I'd vote BNP just to give Labour a kick up the ar5e. I don't care for the EU. I want to be able to put a St. Georges flag anywhere I want, its MY country, not some immigrants.


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## RipCord (Apr 5, 2005)

estfna said:


> Should let immigrants in who can benefit our society, doctors etc. .


Just playing devils advocate . . . but wouldnt that strip the poorer countries of their PHD's, Professionals, and other Intelligent people and therefore leave them worse off creating more problems, and thus forcing more people to countries like England?

:beer1:


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Basically, imo there should be a set amount let in each year inc asylum seekers. Maybe the same amount as leave the country each year. Those that do come here should be allowed no benefits until they have put into the system for 10 years or something along those lines. This way all the state spongers would be discouraged from coming here, the false asylum applications would fall and this country would not be seen as the golden egg it currently is. Only migrants worth having would then be arriving. When Poland etc joined the EU germany and most other eu states opened it's doors to them, but closed the benefits to them. Why on Earth did we not do the same.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

morris dancing WTF!!!


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## albie (Mar 16, 2007)

Starting point to control immigration would be to change what is so appealing about the UK to make people travel though multiple european countries, where they would be safe from persecution , if thats their reason for coming.

This may be a not too politically correct reduction in the benefits that can be claimed, housing policy etc , to bring it into line with what is offered by other european coutries.

What really winds me up is listening to people who make their way hear complain about what they are given, heard one case where an immigrant family were taking the local athority to court because they claimed the house they were 'given' wasn't big enough!

In some areas that are mainly asian muslim there are calls for Sharia law to be allowed!! A quick reminder of the values of the country they have moved to is in order i think.

Immigration could also be controlled by reducing the need for companies to fill vacancies via immigration if some off the lazy ****s happy to take all and give nothing back were 'encouraged' back to work. Think the stats released earlier this month were 2.7 million jobs created, 1.5million filled via immigration, over 1 million people still claiming benefits.

As for the people walking around in society , on the list of potential terroists, if they know who they are, find em and chuck them out.

Think St Georges day should be a national holiday - give people a reason to fly the flag, other than sporting occasions ( not that one should be needed ) put to rest the idea that flying the flag means your racist, along with the idea that voicing concerns about immigration means your racist, Morriseys getting flak for comments he made....will it ever stop.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

albie said:


> In some areas that are mainly asian muslim there are calls for Sharia law to be allowed!! A quick reminder of the values of the country they have moved to is in order i think.
> 
> .


Absolutely correct mate. I wholeheartedly agree with your post and I am in no way racist at all. I just don't believe this country cab sustain itself the way it is going


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

I think just some basic rules of thumb for ppl to be allowed in;

1) Firstly, they MUST speak English, end of!

2) They must either have documentation of a pending job to come here or have some qualification, that is going to benefit US/THIS COUNTRY.

3) They can not claim benefits until they qualify to be a British Citizen

Immigrants coming should be all about benefitting this country, I personally don't give a monkeys about them, if they want a better life, fair enough, but they should realise that they are expected to adhere to our culture and society, we have to in their countries, so it goes for them here.

And I personally believe most flooding in from Africa should be given a fvckin AIDS test because stats on that are very worrying.

The thing is, we have to basically accept what the UK has become but end it here and now, immigration seriously needs stopping for a few years IMO, we need to get to grips with NHS waiting lists, overcrowded schools etc, everythigns gone to pot.

I also agree with Albie that St Georges day should be a national hoiday, more ppl know when st paddy's day is than our own patron saint, disgusting.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

They should also be made to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen and country and denounce all forms of terrorism


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

robsta9 said:


> They should also be made to swear an oath of allegiance to the queen and country and denounce all forms of terrorism


even though I laughed a bit at this Rob i fvckin agree, im not saying they should forget where they come from but once here they shuld want to be British IMO.


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

if immigration to the uk was as strict as immigration to australia then it would stop a lot dead in their tracks...

yep, must speak english, must have a job or a sponsor. no benefits until you have worked for 5 years....


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Slamdog said:


> if immigration to the uk was as strict as immigration to australia then it would stop a lot dead in their tracks...
> 
> yep, must speak english, must have a job or a sponsor. no benefits until you have worked for 5 years....


Yes mate, I agree, we should follow their example IMO.


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## RipCord (Apr 5, 2005)

what is so racist about the St Georges flag?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

RipCord said:


> what is so racist about the St Georges flag?


Asians find it offensive 

But its ok for them to dance in the streets after 9/11 etc etc


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## RipCord (Apr 5, 2005)

I've have done some reading about your problem in England. To bad.


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

Five-O said:


> Asians find it offensive
> 
> But its ok for them to dance in the streets after 9/11 etc etc


I dont find it offensive. I am a british born asain , not muslim by the way.

I think people have had a problem with st george flag because everytime u see it it was normally associated with the far right . But i think in recent years , mainly due to the england football team , more and more asains have st george flags on cars etc during world cups . I am talkin more about sikhs and hindus . I knew a few pakistani lads that were over the moon about 9-11 , and they ain't even fanatical .

Back to the imigration thing i rekon its too late to do anything now. Most people i know , black asain white r lookin to jump ship and go abroad. I am in london which is totally multicultural now.

People talkin about votin bnp , now thats bull sh1t . Fair enough there is an immigration problem , bnp ever got into power they would try n kick people like me out of the country even if i was born here. Fact is we work our asses off we pay our taxes and we follow the law of the land.

What about all the spongers who cant b asked to work and r not immigrants , peopleforget about these lot and chavs and put it all on the foreigners.

If some one drove past waving a st george flag i defo would not b offended and i know the majority asains ( indians ) would have no probs with it . The only people who complain about it r normally the fanatics on the otherside .


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

anabolic lion said:


> I dont find it offensive. I am a british born asain , not muslim by the way.
> 
> I think people have had a problem with st george flag because everytime u see it it was normally associated with the far right . But i think in recent years , mainly due to the england football team , more and more asains have st george flags on cars etc during world cups . I am talkin more about sikhs and hindus . I knew a few pakistani lads that were over the moon about 9-11 , and they ain't even fanatical .
> 
> ...


Im gonna do something now thta will show my true colours maybe but to me the problem with racial tension comes from mainly the Pakistani community IMO, Indians fought with us during the war and I appreciate many of them do work very hard, from my experience Indians tend to be more friendly but Pakistani's can be very hostile, thats just my opinion though.

Your right in all you say, and im glad your proud to be British mate. Im sorry I tarnished you with the "Asians find it offensive comment" I should have maybe said, the majority of Pakistani's find it offensive, I dunno, we could go around in circles forever.


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

i agree with the war thing . My grandad fought with the brits during the second world war , he was captured i think in italy but escaped b4 he got caught again . Any way thats how my mum came over to england as my grandad was given citizen ship .

Dont wanna say too much about the pakistani thing but look at areas where they have a good majority , slough , bradford east london and other place up north , they all a bit on the run down side and when the police do terrorist raids its allways in these same areas


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

if the bnp get in, i may get deported too.. me being half a colonist... mind you, that might not be a bad thing the way the country is going... go and live next door to stuart mcrobert... i have family all over cyprus...


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Annabolic, I'm not looking to offend but I'd like to ask a question. Do you see yourself as British, or Asian?

If Britain went to war with the country of your father, would you fight for britain?

And reasons for the answer..

Thanks


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I hadn't read the rest of the posts. You've already anwered.....cheers


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

It's immigrants such as your grandfather that should and are welcomed by this country.

Those that come here and abhor our country have no right to be here. They want their own laws etc, wtf is that all about. If they do not like our llaws they should go somewhere they do like the laws.

Australia has the right attitude to immigration as has already been said. You can migrate there if you have something worth taking only.


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

RipCord said:


> Just playing devils advocate . . . but wouldnt that strip the poorer countries of their PHD's, Professionals, and other Intelligent people and therefore leave them worse off creating more problems, and thus forcing more people to countries like England?
> 
> :beer1:


No, because it's free choice, if you want to move here, get a qualification we can use otherwise stay away. Australia, as said, picks and chooses and nobody has any problems with that. It's all fair that if their being persecuted in their own country they could come here, that's a real asylum seeker. That's different to people just coming here for free money that I pay.


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## squat_this (Jan 14, 2006)

It's a shame another election is 4 years away, by then Labour might have covered up the cracks. If there was an election next year I reckon we could have got rid of them.


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

australia is strict and i think america is gettin tough too. I know of two lads both with recent crimainal convitions, 1 serious 1 not , who got sent back on the 1st available flight from america. They were on both occasions going on holiday .

Robsta if i had to go to war for britan i would . But i would not have gone to iraq over some BS oil war but defo would have gone to afganistan .

Thing is if u look at it this way britannia ruled the world and now the world wants to come here .

Immigration is the least of our probs in my opinion crime and terrorism is whats really gonna fcuk this country up .


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I disagree mate. I think crime, terrorism and immigration are all linked.

I think the 1st step to sorting out crime/terrorism is to sort out immigration. And the 1st step to that is stop it totally now, until enough people have left to take the burden off our public services or at least until all the parties figure out what to do about it.


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## anabolic lion (Aug 4, 2004)

i think the with the terrorisim thing its the british born fanatics who r gonna b more of a threat. Crime is both ways , these days every tom dick n harry wants to b a tony montana or go with the get rich or die tryin philosophy


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## squat_this (Jan 14, 2006)

robsta9 said:


> I disagree mate. I think crime, terrorism and immigration are all linked.


My exact point in a previous thread. Immigration, crime, terrorism, housing & job problems, rubbish NHS etc all linked together. Don't get me wrong, not all problems can be blamed on immigration but we as a country need to stop letting people in so that we can actually take stock of the situation and rectify the problems.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

100% agree mate


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## simba (Nov 25, 2007)

minorites dont hav a problem with st'george's flag... its something thats pushed upon the white population by papers like the sun , etc...

**** , i've seen more and more of us blacks + asians flyin the flag high.. no probs at all... the issue is that those ****s from the BNP use the flag as a symbol of their fuked up views...

why dont you (english , whites ) tell them that they have no right to represent you proud england in that view...???

most ppls view on immigration are based on race... they might deny it on face .. but the black face stands out.. its that simple.. i dont hear people complaining about the thousands of eastern euro ppl comin in.. lets be honest.

why give BNP a stand to speak by the oxford group... if its freedom of speech would they give the same stage to abu hamza ? or the other fuked up idiots ?

let me give you an example of double standands-

remember the oklahoma bombin yrs ago... they said it was terrorists , then when they found out it was a white ex u.s solder suddenly its no longer terrorism.

a few months ago a bnp asshole was caught with explosives at his house... if it was a black man or asian or god forbit a muslim... it would be termed terrorism...

most people in this country are good honest decent ppl... white , black , brown , yellow..

dont let a few jerks with their ill logical views mess up things for all of us...

this is exactly what happened in germany.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

simba said:


> most ppls view on immigration are based on race... they might deny it on face .. but the black face stands out.. its that simple.. i dont hear people complaining about the thousands of eastern euro ppl comin in.. lets be honest.


Have you read this thread in it's entirety? If the answer is yes then read again as you've not comprehended the jist of the begining of it. The whole imigration issue is being bought up by eastern europeans flooding our labour market. We are complaining in this thread, to each other, with work mates and family. I don't care what colour or nationality they may be if they are unskilled labour they need not to be here.


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## JellyFox (Sep 20, 2007)

I was at my mates house the other night and out of the blue he told me he and his wife have both voted BNP. I was embarassed for a bit as they are from Ghana! I told him the BNP are a nationalist party and he told me he knew and that I should vote for them if I wanted to save my country. He said he felt sorry for english people as we are too kind lol.


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## simba (Nov 25, 2007)

i agree with you...but as a blackman in this country ...let me tell you , most of us feel the hate is towards us blacks/asians and not the white europeans comin in...

if you dont believe me...all you have to do is read the tabloids and how they generate fear in the white population...

immigration works on many levels , you cant jus say stop all.. their are millions of different reasons why ppl come here...

it need a proper system which the labour goverment has failed to apply...

i've got kids like anyone else here.. and this is also my country.. i want it to do well..

and i would definetely die protecting it against anyone who attacks us.

still the best country in the world.

god bless.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

There are plenty of racists in this country, thats where the hate comes from.

The problem is people like me get lumped in with these people as we see the probs imigration is causing in this country.

Yes the tabloids stir things up but when I've spoken to Muslims they've shown no love for this country (JMO). The danger is then to say all Asians are bad, when as we've seen in this thread indians are infact seeks or christians and don't hold the same views.

Has everyone not noticed wages are not going up in this country for unskilled labour? Plus working conditions are getting worse. Something has to be done and this is the last I'll write on the subject as it get me too worked up. I could do without the elevated cortisol.


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## simba (Nov 25, 2007)

pop a pill bruv...lol

take care n god bless.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

i loved the australian prime minister a few years ago-a boat full of asylum seekers headed for their shores-navy destroyer sent out to steer it away!!


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Id just like to say I don't feel a vote for the BNP indicates someone to be a racist, I think that the consensus is that someone who votes for Mr Griffin is ready to go around burning blacks, Asians, Chinese etc etc, If I were to vote for them, it would be *strictly on immigration policies*.

No one can blame Asians moving over here in the 50's and 60's because it was us who expolited them for their textile skills, ie; Bradford, Hudderfield, Halifax, many Yorkshire mill towns etc and we wanted them to come over.

My main problem is the fvckin EU and how they seem to be laughing behind our backs, the system suits them well, but its us who end up with the problems with this open door policy, its ridiculous and has to be stopped.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

paulo said:


> i loved the australian prime minister a few years ago-a boat full of asylum seekers headed for their shores-navy destroyer sent out to steer it away!!


lol...testing there aim were they? pmsl

Good on them :beer1:


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

simba said:


> if you dont believe me...all you have to do is read the tabloids and how they generate fear in the white population...
> 
> immigration works on many levels , you cant jus say stop all.. their are millions of different reasons why ppl come here...
> 
> .


Mate, whether they be black, white, asian, yellow, pink, it bothers me none. They do not belong here full stop.

If, we should allow immigration, it should be skilled trades only, and only a set number should be allowed in, say the same number as those who leave.

I read the tabloids every day, and do not feel fear, what are you going on about?

I have nothing against other races at all. But this is a small country and we just cannot cope with it.

Agreeing with the BNP on issues does not make you a racist. Yes they are idiots, but some of their ideas are quite good.

I think this country bends over backwards for people, much more than it should. Now I suggest you read the whole thread if you think we are on about just blacks/asians mate, it seems to me that you have not


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

while were on the subject, wtf is political asylum all about?

All I hear is "if they go back they'll be killed"

Im fed up of this country being a doormat

I wish some kind of public figure with some serious clout would get a petition sorted, I know everyone I talk to are fed up aswell.


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