# Training split



## demon (Apr 23, 2003)

People,

I was wondering what sort of training routine split most of you have. It seems that a lot of people go for the 4 day split, but I was wondering if any of you do anthing different.

The reason I ask is that I'm currently doing an upper / lower body split, training 3 times a week. However, I think that my legs are improving better than my upper body, so I was considering changing things to a 3-way split, with two of the days spent on upper body and the other one on lower. I can't, unfortunately, train more than three times per week at the minute, so a four-day split would probably be out.

Any thoughts?


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

Mon: Chest/Tris

Wed: Legs/Bis

Fri: Back/Shoulders

Jock


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Monday: Chest

Tuesday: back

Wednesday: legs

Thursday: Arms (bi and tri)

Friday: shoulders

sometimes I go in on a Sat and do hams, inner and outer quads and abs. Spend about 20-25 minutes per body part except legs.


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## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

Wow Hackskii. You want to be careful of overtraining bro

Mon: Chest + Bi`s

Tue : Shoulders + Tri`s

Thr: Chest + Back

Fri : Legs + Various

Abs 2 or 3 time a week, ocasionally do 1 day over the weekend


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

Mon: Chest/Tri's

Tues: Back/Bi's

Wed: Rest

Thr: Legs

Fri: Shoulders/Traps

Sat: Rest/Pub!

Sun: Cardio


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Paul, you are working chest twice a week?

I know it sounds little but am getting stronger and every body part is stronger. In fact this is the strongest I have ever been even cycling. I am 44 too. But what ever works.

I am a firm believer in less sets and more intensity. When I lift I go to failure for at least 1 set lifting heavy or light, I dont count and hit a number then stop, I go to failure with a spotter.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Yea I agree. More intensity and less time spent in the gym. If you are getting stronger than you are doing the right thing. Don't forget the older you get the longer recouperation you need. If you overlap your lifts you can hit the muscle twice inderectly. Say you do chest on monday and arms on thursday and for your arms you throw in a set of dips you get some chest in there and still are only training chest once a week so to speak.


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## Desdicado (May 7, 2003)

This week for me

Sunday- Biceps and Squats

Monday- Triceps and Calves

Tuesday- Back and Hamstrings (with lots of deads)

Wed & Thursday -Rest

Friday -Chest and Shoulder press

Sat -Rest

Not an ideal split by any means but last week I didn't train my tris or bis as I had a cold so wanted to hit them first this week.

Training days are a bit skewed just now as my other half works evenings now so sometimes training has to fit in with looking after the baby.


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## T-man (Sep 3, 2003)

Day 1 Legs

Day 2 Chest

Day 3 Rest

Day 4 Back

Day 5 Shoulders

Day 6 Arms

Day 7 Rest

Each workout 50-60 Mins. Very hard with little rest between sets.

I still feel overtrained.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I like it. It just makes sense. Now, what do you do on those days?How many sets, reps, and how many excercises?

What kind of diet do you have? Me I like protein at each meal, and I like to eat frequently. If you are lean then this dosn't apply to you. But if you have a few pounds to loose, on your off days do cardio. I dont mean train for a marathon but do 20 minutes of hard cardio on your off days. I have done this and I lost 17 pounds and my strength is up. Dont ask me why but it works. It also makes you the total athlete.


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## T-man (Sep 3, 2003)

Diet 4,500 + cals, 400 g protein.

Each workout begins with 5-10 mins light warm up on bike then a few very light sets with the dumbells warming up that particular body part and a bit of streaching.

Like I said each workout less than an hour.

day 1 Legs

light leg extensions and leg curls to warm up/pre exhaust.

Squats 4 sets 6-12 reps after light warm up

Leg press 4 sets 10 -15 reps

Leg extensions 1 heavy triple drop set.

Leg curls 4 sets 8 -12 reps

Seated calf raise 4 sets 10 -20 reps

Standing calf raise 4 sets 10 -20 reps

Seated calf raise 1 triple drop set.

day 2 Chest and abs

Pec deck warm up/pre exhaust

Flat bench barbell or dumbell alternate every 2 weeks 4 sets 6-12 reps after light warm up.

Incline bench barbell or dumbell alternate every 2 weeks 3 sets 6-12 reps and 1 drop set.

Pec deck 1 triple drop set

Cable crossovers 2 sets 10 reps

Crunches 3 sets

Reverse crunches 3 sets

Hanging leg raises 3 sets

day 4 Back

Pulldowns 4 sets 8-12 reps after light warm up.

Bent over rows 4 sets 8-12 reps.

Low pully rows 3 sets 8-12 reps.

Deadlifts 3 sets 8-12 reps

Back extensions 3 sets

day 5 Shoulders

Front press 4 sets 8-12 reps after light warm up

Seated side lateral 4 sets 8-12 reps.

Cable side lateral 2 sets 8-12 reps.

Upright rows 3 sets 8-12 reps

Shrugs 4 sets 10-15 reps

day 6 Arms

bis

Seated alternate dumbell curls 4 sets 6-10 reps after light warm up

Standing barbell curls 4 sets 6-10 reps and 1 drop set

Single arm cable preacher curls 3 sets 8-12 reps

tris

Close grip bench 4 sets 6-10 reps after light warm up.

Skull crushers 4 sets 8-10 reps

Pressdowns 4 sets 8-12 reps

Overhead cable extensions 3 sets 8-12 reps

forearms

3 giant sets

Reverse curl

Wrist curl

Reverse wrist curl

Finish each workout with a bit of streaching.

I used to do cardio first thing in the morning on my bike at home on my rest days, but am trying to gain weight at the moment so have stoped.

I think thats about it. That took me ages to type.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Wow, take notes guys, prefatigue the muscle and then stay in the 8 to 12 rep range, heavy. Alternating exercises, you are a vet for sure. I really like your routine. If I could criteak your routine, it would be in the back dept. You do 1 widening and 3 thickening. You want to gain weight and size so that is good, but beings as the back is the biggest sheet of muscle you might want to throw in one more widening exercise, or alternate them.

You might want to not prefatigue after about 5 workouts only to go heavy to stimulate muscle growth and to change your workouts, then go back to your original routine. I really like your routine. The only thing that bothers me is your protein. It sounds like allot. Don't forget, 1 1/2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Drink allot of water also.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

what are the best back widening exercises?

i currently do

Deadlifts: 4-5 x 2-5

Pullups/pulldowns: 3x8

Bent-over rows: 2x10

Barbell curls: 3x8

Hammer curls: 3x6-10

back/bi's on a tuesday!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Wide pullups, in front, only cause behind is bad for the rotator. Pullovers of some sort work the lat. The excercises that I am talking about hit the lat more than the back. Close pulls hit more lat than back also.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Good Winger,

I would do wide pullups with a full stretch at the bottom and pull high. Or you can do pulldowns with a full stretch at the bottom. So you can do 3 sets of 8-12 reps for pulldowns then if you dont feel that you did enough you can do 2 sets with a narrow grip with the hands facing in or out with a stretch at the bottom.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Good hackskii

I like your posts.


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## T-man (Sep 3, 2003)

Thanks, I am happy with it at the moment.

As for back I get an massive pump from doing the just pulldowns for width getting a real good streach and then really squeazing the contraction. Also really streaching them out between sets by pulling on an upright of one of the machines nearby.

I am not really to bothered about what is for width or thinkness at the moment as I am going for more mass with the heavy bent over rows and deadlifts. I used to do a lot of weighted chins and often do some chins at the end of my back work out but did not really count them as they are mearly to get a final pump and to try and reduce some of the pressure that my back has just taken with the deadlifts which leaves my lower back burning.

As for protein I weigh 215 bls so at 1.5 per pound that is 322.5g I aim for 400g as I am bulking at the moment but it is not that every day, a lot is from milk and powders along with a few steaks and chikens here and there and I drink over a gallon of water daily but thanks anyway.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

t man, i like you get alot of my protein from milk and powders, how many meals do u eat a day?

i am trying to bulk but finding it v.hard at the cost of eatin so much, so i am eating every 3 hours and trying to have as high protein intake as possible, not forgetting carbs


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

T-man, I really like your routine. I like the aproach and the way you train. It does sound like you are on your way to getting bigger and stronger. Just keep up the water cause that much protein does need to be flushed out of the body.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cycling protein is good too, I will see if I can find that article by Bill Phillips on this.

This article is not as good as Bill's but just read the link and see foryourselves that too much protein is not good and should be cycled to be most effective.

http://www.t-mag.com/html/10maxim.html

another:

http://www.nwspine.com/Lib-ProteinCycling.htm


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## T-man (Sep 3, 2003)

To answer robins question, I find it very difficult to eat as much as I need to gain weight. My diet is very plain and I don't like a lot of foods. A normal days eating would be;

8:30 Oatmeal with rasins and protein shake (don't like eggs)

11:00 2 Large wholemeal rolls with 100g low fat cheese in each

+ 1/2 serving of my weight gainer shake

13:30 2 large chicken breasts + bowl of wholegrain rice

16:30 2 large chicken breasts + bowl of wholegrain rice

17:30 pre workout shake

19:00 post workout shake

20:00 steak + bowl of wholegrain rice

22:00 1 chicken breast + 1/2 bowl of wholegrain rice

24:00 steak by itself

Protein shake to take to bed and drink during night

It is not the same every day but pretty much just chicken, steak and rice. With the odd double whopper from buger king.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well I heard that you can only matabalise 35 grams of protein per meal. If you divided your chicken breasts up a little you might get a better bang for your buck. Meal two is kinda carby but that is ok cause it is still morning so to speak. I kinda dont like the weight gainer proteins cause they are all sugar. Also you need all the colors for vegetables. Green, yellow.red. Just for the vitamin aspect. I know you want to gain weight but you will gain, just be patient. Damn you should be writing these posts not me. You seem to have a good grasp on the training, and diet aspect. During the winter months just get a little more sleep than during the summer. What are your stats? With this kind of diet and training I think you probably look pretty good. It is the guys that cant gain weight that have the upper hand on body building. They feed the muscles and gain weight. The heavy guys that have to diet and try to add muscle dont seem to look as muscular. How much muscle are you going to gain if you are cutting. Enough said. Good job T-man.


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## T-man (Sep 3, 2003)

Yeah winger I have read a lot of different articles about how much protein your body can use in one sitting. Some say just 20g others 30, 35, 40 etc. but this makes it difficult to explain how a 300lb + pro gets his protein for the day sometimes 600g +.

I like what one book said and that was that in one sitting it was half your bodyweight in kg into g (i.e. weight 100 kg and eat 50g a serving) and it said that post workout you could double it to 100g.

I eat two chiken breasts at a time to fill me up and because I buy whole cooked chikens from my local supermarket hot. Its fast and the same price as buying two breasts raw.

I know I need to eat veg and try to in my post workout meal for their antioxidant properties as well but I have always hated them since childhod, but I take plenty of vitimins and mineral supplements.

Also my weight gainer is ok (three stage carb mix with plenty of complex carbs and the only fat are mct's) and like I said I am bulking at the moment. I probably won't start cutting till about april, but I am not letting myself get to fat.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Got ya. I really dont like veggies eather, but I eat them. This is kinda new thinking but if you can bring down your bodies acid content, then you will be healthier. That is done by green veggies. Also, any oil that is liquid at room temperature is good for you. Those are omega 3 and omega 6 oils. Stick with the fish oils. The will actually clean the arteries and you will be less apt to die of a heart attack. They also say fish once a week will reduce heart attacks by 50%. That is impressive. Dont forget fats supress your body from spiking insulin. If your insulin levels are high then you will store fat. Low insulin levels and your body uses the fat for energy. Dont forget 1 fat gram is 9 calories. A carb or protein gram is 4 calories. If you ate the right amount of fat you could bump up your overall calories and be healthier.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

Demon (and any other beginners)

- Firstly for beginners I wouldn't recommend training any more than 3 times a week and once for each bodypart. As a beginner you're in an advantagous position because virtually no matter what routine you do within reason you'll grow. Just the new stimulus of regular weight training will make you grow to some extent. Best to make use of this whilst you can. Then when you start to hit plateaus as you progress you can up the volume, frequency and intensity of your workout. Like with anything, you need to build your way up. If you go straight into training like Ronnie Coleman, then when your gains start to slow you dont have any fresh weapons to bring out to blast you through those sticking points. Remember - progressive muscular overload - the only way to make continuous gain.

I'd recommend this split:

mon: chest and biceps

wed: back and triceps

fri: legs and shoulders

This pairs a large muscle group with a small one every time. When you train two large groups together, one almost always suffers.

T Man

- Thats a cracking diet. A bit of green stuff (i.e. veggies or salad) would make it even better. If you really cant stomach the greens, I'd recommend that you make sure you at least take some kind of multivitamin.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Nice post sientbob as usual. I like your split routine. You only have to train once a week each body part, but the body parts are overlaped and still get hit indirectly. That is a good thing. No need to beat a body part into submission.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

That is one benefit winger. The other is that biceps are still relatively fresh and unused after training chest and the same is true of triceps after back. This means you can train them with greater intensity than if the split were chest with triceps and back with biceps. Occasionally I do it that way round though, as a shock measure to pre-fatigue the smaller muscle group.

Another thing I like to do is train forearms after back. I struggle to get much out of training forearms, but if I prefatigue them with my back training (think how much grip strength is used in rows , pulldowns and deadlifts) I can really hit them hard. I very rarely train forearms though - I think they get used enough in other exercises.


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## demon (Apr 23, 2003)

Thanks for the reply silentbob.

I changed my training routine shortly after I posted this thread (a couple of months ago I think) but your routine makes a lot more sense.

The pairing of small and large muscle groups sounds like a very good idea.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Yea i agree silentbob. The biggest joke I see in the gym is the guys with the straps. Why? If your grip is weak then you arent a complete athlete. If there is one commonality in strenth training, it is the grip.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, silentbob and winger, these are nice posts and I liked their reading and agree totally. Passion and information, cool.. Keep up the good work.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well thank-you. Coming from you that is a compliment. You post well yourself. I dont mean post cycle eather..............ha ha ha.


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## OnePack (Jan 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by hackskii
> 
> *Monday: Chest*
> 
> ...


how long do u spend on legs?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Let me answer that for him. Hackskii (my twin brother) works legs for 20 minutes at his lunch break. I know that dosn't sound like much but if trained correctly it could be more than enough. Biggest muscle in the body. Intensity is key. Basic compound lifts. Squats, leg press. Mix it up for the best results.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

mon - chest+bicep

tues - quads

wed - rest

thurs - shoulders + triceps

friday - back + hams

ive just started this split. i do abs and calves on all 4 training days after some advice from hackskii. i have weekends off


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I like it. It is sound.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I hit the quads on Wednesday for 20 minutes. Last week I did front squats for the first time and the legs were kindof hammered. This week I will do 4 sets of front squats with the first one a good warmup and will do 2 good worksets with the front squat. I will go to the lying leg press and do 3 sets there then go to the extensions and do 3-4 sets there. I will play that by ear as the front squats kindof did me in last week.

I will do inner thigh and outer hip flexers on Sat. and do hams on Sat as well. 20 minutes is good enough for the quads by them selves. I dont talk at the gym and take about 1 minute or a little less between sets. So that will be about 10-11 sets for the quads. Probably 5 of those sets will be considered a workset. I mean by that this is a good set that I will have to push on after a good warmup and am ready to push.

I had to go to the front squats as they dont hurt my knees as much and the hack squat on the machine hurts them as well, no matter where I place my feet.


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## Mr T (Apr 4, 2003)

my routine

mon

deads 5x5

rows 5x5

chins 5x5

hammer curls 5x5

wed

incline bech press 5x5

military press 5x5

weighted dips 5x5

fri

squats 5x5

sldl 5x5

abs

simple and effective, imo too many people who weight train are overtraining.......


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## demon (Apr 23, 2003)

That is pretty simple Mr T. I think I might give something like that a go soon.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by Mr T
> 
> *simple and effective, imo too many people who weight train are overtraining....... *


I couldn't agree more. Nice post.


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## Mr T (Apr 4, 2003)

im glad someone agrees with me..


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