# Knees- wraps or sleeves for squats?



## ausbuilt

As the title says...

I'm old, they never had sleeves back in my day....

Any pros/cons to either?

Are sleeves as good as wraps for knee stability and increasing your lift/squat?


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## 065744

sleeves just keep the joint warm. i just use single ply sleeves and they dont add anything to your lifts. they do do triple ply sleeves though but im not sure if these add any weight to your lifts if they did it wouldnt be a great amount like a knee wrap does. (i can get 40kgs out of a tight knee wrap on squats)

also with sleeves your wear them the whole session where as wraps you just wear them for your heavy sets and when needs be. can be very annoying having to rewrap your knees every set and also they cut the circulation off to your calves which really puts you off when yoru wanna do a triple drop set on squats and have them on for a while.

my advice would be to start with knee sleeves and wear them for your whole leg session. if needs be result to knee wraps for your heavy sets.


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## Robbie

ausbuilt said:


> As the title says...
> 
> I'm old, they never had sleeves back in my day....
> 
> Any pros/cons to either?
> 
> Are sleeves as good as wraps for knee stability and increasing your lift/squat?


I have some neoprene knee sleeves (from strengthshop) and they are great. I workout in the morning so usually put some deep heat on and slip the sleeves on when I wake up and my knees feel nice and warm when I get to the gym. Definitely helps me feel less creaky!!


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## Guest

I have patella troubles in the right knee so its wraps all the way when I start going heavy.

Doesn't restrict my Rom that bad either.


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## Jim78

wraps for me, i use for my heavier sets then the heavier they get the tighter i crank em, plus u get a little rebound at the bottom which helps.

Not used sleeves but id say cons are u can't tighten them for the very heavy sets.


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## Alvin

Another vote for sleeves, as has been said they are comfy enough to wear all the time while keeping the joint warm


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## Biffa_Bacon

Funnily enough I bought some wraps off eBay last night.

The day after very heavy squats my knees are very fragile. So I'm going to see if they make any difference.


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## ausbuilt

thanks for the replys everyone..

I don't think I need them for the whole workout, and quad/glute wise I wouldn't mind getting some extra poundage/help out of the "hole" (am an ass to grass squatter) so I'd only need wraps for 1-2sets at most.

Seems like the sleeves, even 3 ply don't replace the wraps for increasing lift...


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## MRSTRONG

i think the double ply (bumble bee) knee sleeves from strength shop are very good , wraps are a pain to put on properly .

i would go with sleeves aus , you could get triple ply but i think double would suit your needs better .


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## Chelsea

I use sleeves mate, the wraps feel very unnatural to me didnt like them at all, the sleeves keep the joint nice and warm and makes them feel a bit more stable. Its never going to be a massive help but i like them.


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## Robbie

Chelsea said:


> I use sleeves mate, the wraps feel very unnatural to me didnt like them at all, the sleeves keep the joint nice and warm and makes them feel a bit more stable. Its never going to be a massive help but i like them.


This. And I'm sure I read that wearing wraps increases the pressure on the joint?


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## Guest

Robbie said:


> This. And I'm sure I read that wearing wraps increases the pressure on the joint?


I would chose not to wear either tbh, but on the heavier squats wraps relieve the pressure/pain on my patella.


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## ausbuilt

Spawn of Haney said:


> I would chose not to wear either tbh, but on the heavier squats wraps relieve the pressure/pain on my patella.


Am finding at 140kg, i'm comfy back/knees, can crank out 8-12; as I hit 150kg+ I really start feeling my knees more than my quads/glutes, could be old age, maybe i need more GH; I do use a belt for 140kg+ (not under), and never used wraps.. but feel my progress is hampered by fear of knee pain..


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## Robbie

ausbuilt said:


> Am finding at 140kg, i'm comfy back/knees, can crank out 8-12; as I hit 150kg+ I really start feeling my knees more than my quads/glutes, could be old age, maybe i need more GH; I do use a belt for 140kg+ (not under), and never used wraps.. but feel my progress is hampered by fear of knee pain..


Ever videoed your squats? Could be a form issue...


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## MRSTRONG

ausbuilt said:


> Am finding at 140kg, i'm comfy back/knees, can crank out 8-12; as I hit 150kg+ I really start feeling my knees more than my quads/glutes, could be old age, maybe i need more GH; I do use a belt for 140kg+ (not under), and never used wraps.. but feel my progress is hampered by fear of knee pain..


what shoes you wearing and foot width ?


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## ausbuilt

ewen said:


> i think the double ply (bumble bee) knee sleeves from strength shop are very good , wraps are a pain to put on properly .
> 
> i would go with sleeves aus , you could get triple ply but i think double would suit your needs better .


mate, if you think double ply would work, will give them a go. I use strength shop wrist wraps, so will order from them; **** it, may end up ordering both.. LOL


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## MRSTRONG

ausbuilt said:


> mate, if you think double ply would work, will give them a go. I use strength shop wrist wraps, so will order from them; **** it, may end up ordering both.. LOL


and squat shoes ive got a feeling your narrow stance with flat soled shoes so try a heeled shoe .


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## ausbuilt

ewen said:


> what shoes you wearing and foot width ?


hmm... could be shoes- have been training in nike shox- i know they compress a lot at the heel (wife told me).

I take wide stance, bar low on trap (powerlifting style squat)


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## Guest

I'd use wraps over sleeves, only because I know wraps work well when going real heavy. They can be a pain in the 4rse though when you squat down and one pings and undoes itself.

I might look at the strength shop sleeves though, as my knees aren't what they were, and suffer after squatting. Damn calcium deposits.


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## MRSTRONG

ausbuilt said:


> hmm... could be shoes- have been training in nike shox- i know they compress a lot at the heel (wife told me).
> 
> I take wide stance, bar low on trap (powerlifting style squat)


flat sole would better suit then , i slipped a disc whilst squatting in nike air max lol bad trainers .


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## DoIEvenLift

ewen said:


> flat sole would better suit then , i slipped a disc whilst squatting in nike air max lol bad trainers .


i use flat sole nike trainers, feet fairly narrow, no further than shoulder width apart. im only 20, and often have creaky knees and generally not feeling 100% comfortable squatting. is flat soles wrong for me? and would it be worth me trying knee sleeves?


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## MRSTRONG

DoIEvenLift said:


> i use flat sole nike trainers, feet fairly narrow, no further than shoulder width apart. im only 20, and often have creaky knees and generally not feeling 100% comfortable squatting. is flat soles wrong for me? and would it be worth me trying knee sleeves?


if its near an oly squat yeah try heeled shoes also push your knees out like a frog legs , try knee sleeves i rate them highly .


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## DoIEvenLift

ewen said:


> if its near an oly squat yeah try heeled shoes also push your knees out like a frog legs , try knee sleeves i rate them highly .


when you say near a olympic squat, do u mean deep squats? yeah i do try and push my knees out to the side a bit same direction as toes are pointing. just looking on ebay the sleeves only couple quid anyway lol


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## MRSTRONG

DoIEvenLift said:


> when you say near a olympic squat, do u mean deep squats? yeah i do try and push my knees out to the side a bit same direction as toes are pointing. just looking on ebay the sleeves only couple quid anyway lol


power squats are very wide stance an oly squat is feet under hips (roughly) .

i would spend more than a few quid on knee sleeves like the ones on strength shop .


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## Clubber Lang

use both sleeves and wraps myself, tho not at the same time ha.

wraps make a massive difference when squating, huge difference. Wouldnt lift beyond a certain weight myself without them. Had bad tendonitis in my knee once so need all the warm and support i can. Dont wanna be crippled like that ever again.

got my wraps from here;

http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/

use Vulkan sleeves, elbow and knee.


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## ausbuilt

ewen said:


> flat sole would better suit then , i slipped a disc whilst squatting in nike air max lol bad trainers .


yeah have been tossing up getting the adidas weightlifting shoes, or just using puma speedcat (very flat soled) trainers..



ewen said:


> power squats are very wide stance an oly squat is feet under hips (roughly) .
> 
> i would spend more than a few quid on knee sleeves like the ones on strength shop .


As said, will try both; considering the amount you lift/squat I'll def give the 2x ply sleeve a go..



Clubber Lang said:


> use both sleeves and wraps myself, tho not at the same time ha.
> 
> wraps make a massive difference when squating, huge difference. Wouldnt lift beyond a certain weight myself without them. Had bad tendonitis in my knee once so need all the warm and support i can. Dont wanna be crippled like that ever again.
> 
> got my wraps from here;
> 
> http://www.pullum-sports.co.uk/
> 
> use Vulkan sleeves, elbow and knee.


I know what you mean... this being big isn't easy.... I love when people say, "oh hes just big coz he's on the juice".... if only it where that easy.....

Growing is tough, and pushing for the heavier squat means chasing up things like wraps/sleeves which u don't need on pu$$y weights...


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## MRSTRONG

ausbuilt said:


> yeah have been tossing up getting the adidas weightlifting shoes, or just using puma speedcat (very flat soled) trainers..
> 
> As said, will try both; considering the amount you lift/squat I'll def give the 2x ply sleeve a go..
> 
> I know what you mean... this being big isn't easy.... *I love when people say, "oh hes just big coz he's on the juice".... if only it where that easy*.....
> 
> Growing is tough, and pushing for the heavier squat means chasing up things like wraps/sleeves which u don't need on pu$$y weights...


i get breatheless putting my socks on thats if i can manage to lift my foot up high enough .

these skinny dudes dont know how easy they got it :lol:


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## Strongr

I've got a pair of Titan knee wraps coming, I use the wrst wraps when going over any press that's 50kg or above, doesn't sound a great deal but my wrists take a battering doing MMA.

I don't want extra weight from them just the stability they bring.


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## Huntingground

ewen said:


> i get breatheless putting my socks on thats if i can manage to lift my foot up high enough .
> 
> these skinny dudes dont know how easy they got it :lol:


That's only coz your gut gets in the way 

What squat shoes do you suggest mate? I wear flat trainers and use a 5KG bar under my heels at the moment even when doing 230KG so maybe time I invested in some decent suat shoes........


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## zak007

Before when a used to squat a couldnt get passed 120 used wraps and instantly jumped upto 140! a recommend them to everyone their great when going heavy

A was training with a guy in the gym the other day and showed the difference to him 140x5 with belt moderate/hard

160x5 with belt wraps easy!

The first few times they feel a bit uncomfortable but once you start squatting their great!


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## MRSTRONG

Huntingground said:


> That's only coz your gut gets in the way
> 
> What squat shoes do you suggest mate? I wear flat trainers and use a 5KG bar under my heels at the moment even when doing 230KG so maybe time I invested in some decent suat shoes........


abs mate abs 

http://www.sugarrays.co.uk/shop/adidas_power_perfect-ii-weightlifting-shoe.html

griff recommends them .


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## Huntingground

ewen said:


> abs mate abs
> 
> http://www.sugarrays.co.uk/shop/adidas_power_perfect-ii-weightlifting-shoe.html
> 
> griff recommends them .


Thanks mate.


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## murphy2010

When i get some money ill be buying the thor knee sleeves from strength shop, been meaning to get em for months now


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## MattGriff

If you squat power style as you say then there is a form issue - there shouldn't be too much pressure through the knees in that stance; the shins stay near vertical and the movement comes from the hips.

I use both wraps and sleeves depending on what I am doing. I wrap up when squatting 265kg + don't tend to bother before that.

As for sleeves i tried the triple ply from Strength shop - they are basically knee wraps, I power squatted 310 in the gym with them on and they gave me mini blood blisters on my legs like wraps do.

I have the bumble bee double ply ones now, keeps fluid off the knee a little and keeps it warm, right balance in my opinion.


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## Guest

I can vouch for the Powerperfects as I own a pair, great sturdy shoe.

I worked on my form after injuring my back and taking on board some points Matt and Ewen had said.

My stance is just a touch out of shoulder width, I think my patella trouble is from possibly bad form when I started out and I only ever remember it hurting after I rattled a bird on some bare laminate flooring


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## jon-kent

Started wrapping my knees last week when i started squating 180kg as my knee takes a hammering doing mma. Want some Thor knee sleeves but its more to do with the name of them rather than needing them :laugh:


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## exvigourbeast

MattGriff said:


> If you squat power style as you say then there is a form issue - there shouldn't be too much pressure through the knees in that stance; the shins stay near vertical and the movement comes from the hips.


Sorry to deviate from OP slightly - So in an olympic squat there is greater knee pressure ? And what would lifting shoes do to pressure exerted on the knees in an Olympic stance and wide stance squat ?

Back to Ausbuilt's query - I have just taken delivery of some of the Strength Shop Thor sleeves in an attempt to tackle knee issues and whilst I havent had them on under a weight yet from trying them on there is certainly some spring in them at the bottom. They are tight as f**k and even if they do nowt for your legs you will put an inch or two on your back pulling them on - it's murder !


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## Guest

exvigourbeast said:


> Sorry to deviate from OP slightly - So in an olympic squat there is greater knee pressure ? And what would lifting shoes do to pressure exerted on the knees in an Olympic stance and wide stance squat ?
> 
> Back to Ausbuilt's query - I have just taken delivery of some of the Strength Shop Thor sleeves in an attempt to tackle knee issues and whilst I havent had them on under a weight yet from trying them on there is certainly some spring in them at the bottom. They are tight as f**k and even if they do nowt for your legs you will put an inch or two on your back pulling them on - it's murder !


That's one reason why i am in two minds about sleeves over wraps. I reckon i'd struggle to get the fkrs on.


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## MattGriff

exvigourbeast said:


> Sorry to deviate from OP slightly - So in an olympic squat there is greater knee pressure ? And what would lifting shoes do to pressure exerted on the knees in an Olympic stance and wide stance squat ?


There is due to the flexation of the knee, however I should point out it should not be a real issue if the weight is under control. Knee problems usually occur when bad form/control is used and fluid is able to build behind the patella tendon (such things as bouncing into/out of the bottom position).

This isn't a bad picture to demonstrate the tourque differences going through the knees


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## exvigourbeast

MattGriff said:


> There is due to the flexation of the knee, however I should point out it should not be a real issue if the weight is under control. Knee problems usually occur when bad form/control is used and fluid is able to build behind the patella tendon (such things as bouncing into/out of the bottom position).
> 
> This isn't a bad picture to demonstrate the tourque differences going through the knees
> 
> View attachment 102407


Thanks , I am definately adopting the posture on the right ! My issue is basically I have rounded shoulders and upper back ( not from training - from being a kid ) so good form is a nightmare to acheive and torso is forward from unracking let alone at the bottom.

Anyone any idea if lifting shoes would help negate this or exacerbate it ? rather not spend £90 to find out its worse


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## Guest

Try Strengthshop or ebay, some quality footwear at a fraction of the cost.


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## MRSTRONG

exvigourbeast said:


> Thanks , I am definately adopting the posture on the right ! My issue is basically I have rounded shoulders and upper back ( not from training - from being a kid ) so good form is a nightmare to acheive and torso is forward from unracking let alone at the bottom.
> 
> Anyone any idea if lifting shoes would help negate this or exacerbate it ? rather not spend £90 to find out its worse


my way of thinking is shoes wraps sleeves belts and suits are all there as an aid so why not use them but you can also use as many aids as you want but if form is sh1t to start with it`ll be sh1t still with the aids .


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## ausbuilt

MattGriff said:


> If you squat power style as you say then there is a form issue - there shouldn't be too much pressure through the knees in that stance; the shins stay near vertical and the movement comes from the hips.
> 
> I use both wraps and sleeves depending on what I am doing. I wrap up when squatting 265kg + don't tend to bother before that.
> 
> As for sleeves i tried the triple ply from Strength shop - they are basically knee wraps, I power squatted 310 in the gym with them on and they gave me mini blood blisters on my legs like wraps do.
> 
> I have the bumble bee double ply ones now, keeps fluid off the knee a little and keeps it warm, right balance in my opinion.


yeah bar low on trap, shin near vertical; could just be that I notice my condidence lifts when I whip the belt on... and as the weight gets heavier I may worry more for my old joints/feel every twinge... LOL

damn that's some serious weight matt...


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## Strongr

I've just ordered the rehband 7mm old style knee sleeve, if it helps with my knee problems ill spend another £30 on one for my other knee to keep them warm during training.


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## martin brown

Like I have said before - knee are pretty bulletproof in a correct backsquat. Associated pain is probably from something else you're doing or bad form. Not squats.

Sleeves may help put your mind at ease but I also doubt the injury prevention scope of having a 'warm' knee - mobilising the joint and a true muscular warm up is more beneficial.

For heavy work I'd go wraps - more so the help they give at the bottom most probably reduces knee stress. Something like Inzer red or Titan Max RPM would be a good choice - something not too hardcore and slightly softer for more spring.


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## Jim78

I find a pair of converse high tops perfect for squats, flat soled and great for wide stance, got sveral pairs of cheapo lee coopers for a tenner a pop and exactley same but wi art a fancy label.

Only really use wraps for a bit of rebound at the bottom and try to use them sparingly too.


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## MattGriff

exvigourbeast said:


> Thanks , I am definately adopting the posture on the right ! My issue is basically I have rounded shoulders and upper back ( not from training - from being a kid ) so good form is a nightmare to acheive and torso is forward from unracking let alone at the bottom.
> 
> Anyone any idea if lifting shoes would help negate this or exacerbate it ? rather not spend £90 to find out its worse


Depends on your flexibility, most adopt a flat hard shoe to power squat in, Chuck Taylors (or rip off versions for about a tenner) tend to be favourite. Try squatting on the edge of a plate and see how it feels, or in work boots.

Your shoulders and back do not look rounded in your avatar? There should always be a way to correct posture provided its not that you are a genuine hunchback.


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## Ballin

Love my knee wraps- won't squat or leg press without them now


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## exvigourbeast

MattGriff said:


> Depends on your flexibility, most adopt a flat hard shoe to power squat in, Chuck Taylors (or rip off versions for about a tenner) tend to be favourite. Try squatting on the edge of a plate and see how it feels, or in work boots.
> 
> Your shoulders and back do not look rounded in your avatar? There should always be a way to correct posture provided its not that you are a genuine hunchback.


Thanks - Sorry I didn't see this reply. I did the knee in initially using a sheet of plywood to raise my heels as I was trying to overcome hip pain. Can't belive that in my twenties I did singles and low reps every set of every workout, in Nike Air with a good 80kg more and never heard a peep out of my knees or hips. Age is a bummer eh !

Ausbilt - Last session I used the knee sleeves (double ply) for the first time and they were good . Not a huge spring like with knee wraps (although I think it would be more pronunced in Olympic Squats) but very tight and good heat and a feeling of stability / security - Lets face it the mind is half the battle in squats.

I also did leg press first and switched to power squats as my second exercise and dropped the weight 30/40kg whilst I get used to them.Think I was doing something right as my **** got DOMS !


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