# natural testosterone and muscle growth?



## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

right could be a stupid question but you dont know till you ask.

im 23yo so testosterone should be quite high i imagine, if say over the next 3 months i go without sex or even knockin one off would my testosterone levels raise to aid muscle growth?


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## 25081 (Nov 24, 2011)

No.


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

I've heard of this 'no fap' before,but testosterone that's elevated but still within the natural range will not aid you in building muscle


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

shame. is there anyway of naturaly doing it to use testosterone as an aid to getting gains?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Spunk doesn't contain testosterone... you don't wast it when you cum if that's your train of though lol


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

2004mark said:


> Spunk doesn't contain testosterone... you don't wast it when you cum if that's your train of though lol


lol no. just fighters aren't suppose to have sex why'll training and when i dont have sex for a while or shake hands with the one eyed milkman i get alot of affects that i read is down to testosterone. just thought it was all linked somehow?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> lol no. just fighters aren't suppose to have sex why'll training and when i dont have sex for a while or shake hands with the one eyed milkman i get alot of affects that i read is down to testosterone. just thought it was all linked somehow?


nargh... I think that fighting thing is just and old myth.


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

Sex and/or masturbation actually raises testosterone levels. Abstinence lowers it.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

harrison180 said:


> lol no. just fighters aren't suppose to have sex why'll training and when i dont have sex for a while or shake hands with the one eyed milkman i get alot of affects that i read is down to testosterone. just thought it was all linked somehow?


Lol it's because you loose aggression and focus with the fookry that's why as a fighter you'd not have sex the night/so leading up to a bout, and it's not a old myth I can assure you of that.

You want to know how to raise test to aid gains? It's called a 10ml multi dose vial.


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## polishmate (Aug 15, 2013)

this might be relevant:


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## Super -ingh (Aug 2, 2009)

LOL ^


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## test350 (Nov 30, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> right could be a stupid question but you dont know till you ask.
> 
> im 23yo so testosterone should be quite high i imagine, if say over the next 3 months i go without sex or even knockin one off would my testosterone levels raise to aid muscle growth?


see if you can go 3 months first without lol.....I know I couldn't.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

test350 said:


> see if you can go 3 months first without lol.....I know I couldn't.


or me thats why i was asking, i dont have to waste my time now


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## test350 (Nov 30, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> or me thats why i was asking, i dont have to waste my time now


  no chance with the test, maybe in pct lolololol. how long you been training for? what part of uk ya from budd?


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

test350 said:


> no chance with the test, maybe in pct lolololol. how long you been training for? what part of uk ya from budd?


Well i started in august but didnt to well past couple of months cuz of work but as of yesterday im giving it another go . Im from a shi... A lovely place called cannock in the midlands mate. How bout u?


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## test350 (Nov 30, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> Well i started in august but didnt to well past couple of months cuz of work but as of yesterday im giving it another go . Im from a shi... A lovely place called cannock in the midlands mate. How bout u?


Im from Cardiff mate. Ive been training on and off for afew years now but been more focused the last year...........well as focused as you can be with a 16 month old daughter. Aint guna get easier though as got a boy due Christmas Day.......told you I couldn't go 3 months without it haha


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

test350 said:


> Im from Cardiff mate. Ive been training on and off for afew years now but been more focused the last year...........well as focused as you can be with a 16 month old daughter. Aint guna get easier though as got a boy due Christmas Day.......told you I couldn't go 3 months without it haha


i was down cardiff the other week delivering, i find its a nice place. i wish i could put more effort than what i can in but someone had to invent money and without it you cant do much lol. two kids and one born xmas thats a very expencive couple of decades you got coming up mate lol.

hope all goes well for u all mate


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## jme_swaz (Aug 24, 2013)

Fighters don't wack off while training or before a fight because it releases the endorphines into your blood stream that are natural relaxants. What kind of fighter wants to relax while being punched in the face? Stay at the height of agreession


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

harrison180 said:


> right could be a stupid question but you dont know till you ask.
> 
> im 23yo so testosterone should be quite high i imagine, if say over the next 3 months i go without sex or even knockin one off would my testosterone levels raise to aid muscle growth?


How many hench priests have you seen?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

jme_swaz said:


> Fighters don't wack off while training or before a fight because it releases the endorphines into your blood stream that are natural relaxants. What kind of fighter wants to relax while being punched in the face? Stay at the height of agreession


I still maintain it's a myth. Maybe not 10 minutes before a fight, but what you do days/weeks before is going to make sweat fa difference.

I bashed a few out yesterday yet still was ready to rip someone a new one when come 7pm I was still sat in my office waiting for Yodel to pick up a ****ing package lol


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

2004mark said:


> I still maintain it's a myth. Maybe not 10 minutes before a fight, but what you do days/weeks before is going to make sweat fa difference.
> 
> I bashed a few out yesterday yet still was ready to rip someone a new one when come 7pm I was still sat in my office waiting for Yodel to pick up a ****ing package lol


No amount of naturally released endorphins can counter the frustration of dealing with Yodel.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Ian_Montrose said:


> No amount of naturally released endorphins can counter the frustration of dealing with Yodel.


Ha. Yet if a trained fighter bopped me one on the nose I would have remained completely chilled apparently :lol:


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## jme_swaz (Aug 24, 2013)

2004mark said:


> I still maintain it's a myth. Maybe not 10 minutes before a fight, but what you do days/weeks before is going to make sweat fa difference.
> 
> I bashed a few out yesterday yet still was ready to rip someone a new one when come 7pm I was still sat in my office waiting for Yodel to pick up a ****ing package lol


Yer sounds fair. Think it depends on who you are. I did some military training, and one the trainers said the worst thing he could ever do was have sex with his wife the night before an endurance test. He'd almost always flake out before the end and struggle.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

harrison180 said:


> right could be a stupid question but you dont know till you ask.
> 
> im 23yo so testosterone should be quite high i imagine,* if say over the next 3 months i go without sex or even knockin one off would my testosterone levels *raise to aid muscle growth?


You do know sex increases Testosterone, right? however knocking 1 out doesn't! (Maybe Arousal side might do so) But I wouldn't waste my time sustaining from sex for 3 moon to have a ever so increase in free test. what is the point? f*** anything like that if you want to increase Test THAT BAD go and get a vial or an amp. fftopic: Jason Blaha made a good point a while back about how natural lifters/trainers ect exhibit the mindstate of a unnatural trainer yet want to be natural in fact? looking for that edge supplement, natural process that will mimick that kind of enhancement. people with that outlook might as well go ahead and use because they have a user mentality.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Ian_Montrose said:


> How many hench priests have you seen?


LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO shout!!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Pain2Gain said:


> Lol it's because you loose aggression and focus with the fookry that's why as a fighter you'd not have sex the night/so leading up to a bout, and it's not a old myth I can assure you of that.
> 
> You want to know how to raise test to aid gains? It's called a 10ml multi dose vial.


Yeah the no sex before a fight thing is about prolactin... the sleepy, loveydovey feeling after sex is causes by post orgasmic elevations in the hormone prolactin and that stunts aggression and encourages feelings of love and bonding. It does this directly but also indirectly by simultaneously lowering dopamine. People used to think the feeling was due to lower testosterone but not the case.

In all honesty I wouldn't worry about trying to boost test naturally if levels are healthy... not much you can do within natural levels due to feedback mechanisms that keep the range tightly regulated, and thigs that boost total T output within natural ranges are typically compensated for by increased binding of test to globulins keeping free T values (the only ones that count) pretty much static.

The best approach is to make sure you are not followign habits that suppress T values or increase binding... that is a better focus for the natural IMO.

The things to do there can be split into dietary and non-dietary factors -

Dietary - Ensure a decent intake of saturated fat, monounsaturated fat, omega 3 polyunsaturated fat and dietary cholesterol. Also be sure to have a decent regular intake of zinc... the rda for zinc is not enough and should be seen as a minimum.

You also need to ensure carb intake exceeds protein intake - the ideal range is twice as much carbs as protein, but a 3/2 ratio carbs to protein is more realistic for a bodybuilder or athlete who typically has a higher protein intake than the norm. When protein is very low and carbs very high total T levels are good but excess binding and 'deactivation' of T levels occurs. Ling term dieting/cutting will also lower active T levels.

Non Dietary - Avoid smoking, chronic lack of sleep, prolonged abstinence from sex, and stress. Basically you want to control cortisol levels and keep them to normal ranges.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> Lol it's because you loose aggression and focus with the fookry that's why as a fighter you'd not have sex the night/so leading up to a bout, and it's not a old myth I can assure you of that.
> 
> You want to know how to raise test to aid gains? It's called a 10ml multi dose vial.


Hit he nail on the head there mate.


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

dtlv said:


> Yeah the no sex before a fight thing is about prolactin... the sleepy, loveydovey feeling after sex is causes by post orgasmic elevations in the hormone prolactin and that stunts aggression and encourages feelings of love and bonding. It does this directly but also indirectly by simultaneously lowering dopamine. People used to think the feeling was due to lower testosterone but not the case.
> 
> In all honesty I wouldn't worry about trying to boost test naturally if levels are healthy... not much you can do within natural levels due to feedback mechanisms that keep the range tightly regulated, and thigs that boost total T output within natural ranges are typically compensated for by increased binding of test to globulins keeping free T values (the only ones that count) pretty much static.
> 
> ...


No mention of limiting alcohol consumption? Was that a deliberate omission? Otherwise, a very useful post, thanks.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Mogy said:


> Sex and/or masturbation actually raises testosterone levels. Abstinence lowers it.


Came here to say exactly this.

I used to be on Bodybuilding dot com, and there was a big 'no fap' movement on there. They quoted all sorts of psudo-intellectual guff about how great it was, but the motivation seemed to be religious rather than scientific.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Youngstarz said:


> You do know sex increases Testosterone, right? however knocking 1 out doesn't! (Maybe Arousal side might do so) But I wouldn't waste my time sustaining from sex for 3 moon to have a ever so increase in free test. what is the point? f*** anything like that if you want to increase Test THAT BAD go and get a vial or an amp. fftopic: Jason Blaha made a good point a while back about how natural lifters/trainers ect exhibit the mindstate of a unnatural trainer yet want to be natural in fact? looking for that edge supplement, natural process that will mimick that kind of enhancement. people with that outlook might as well go ahead and use because they have a user mentality.


i completely agree with you mate. mines just sheer impatience i'll be honest. since this thread was made i have been researching prohormones and that appears to get quite abit of debate. i know its a steroid and can have sides like a steroid etc but cuz its legal and i can just go click click and i have some people can kind of lie to themselves that their not using steroids but somewhere in the middle. thats what i find out of some things i've read on the internet.

then you have the people like me who will try a weak one first and be happy with a couple of pounds of muscle added and no sides but can practice how to take a cycle properly in relative saftey, where as some will jump in with the strongest steroid they can find and go with that wether it fvcks em up or not.

if it wasnt for my mrs saying she will leave me if i take steroids i would probably be on them now even tho bein told many times that i'll make great gains without them. its never enough. i can lie with prohormones tho


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Ian_Montrose said:


> No mention of limiting alcohol consumption? Was that a deliberate omission? Otherwise, a very useful post, thanks.


Thanks mate... yes you are right, keeping alcohol intake low also important. A few drinks here or there ok but regularly drinking heavily definitely limiting. :thumbup1:


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Came here to say exactly this.
> 
> I used to be on Bodybuilding dot com, and there was a big 'no fap' movement on there. They quoted all sorts of psudo-intellectual guff about how great it was, but the motivation seemed to be religious rather than scientific.


I remember some of that stuff on there - a lot of god bothering going on for a bb'ing forum and some silly psuedo science jumbled up with it. Test does dip off after sex, but it's only a short term dip and nothing to worry about. T levels are not constant throughout the day anyway and fluctuate naturally with the circadian rhythm just like most hormones.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

harrison180 said:


> i completely agree with you mate. mines just sheer impatience i'll be honest. since this thread was made i have been researching prohormones and that appears to get quite abit of debate. i know its a steroid and can have sides like a steroid etc but cuz its legal and i can just go click click and i have some people can kind of lie to themselves that their not using steroids but somewhere in the middle. thats what i find out of some things i've read on the internet.
> 
> then you have the people like me who will try a weak one first and be happy with a couple of pounds of muscle added and no sides but can practice how to take a cycle properly in relative saftey, where as some will jump in with the strongest steroid they can find and go with that wether it fvcks em up or not.
> 
> if it wasnt for my mrs saying she will leave me if i take steroids i would probably be on them now even tho bein told many times that i'll make great gains without them. its never enough. i can lie with prohormones tho


I hear what you're saying mate.

Bit of a silly reason to dabble with PH's when you'd ''probably'' be far more better of going with the real deal. If she would leave you over you using gear, then what else would she be prepared to leave you over? hmm... if it was me and if I was dead set on it? I would just go straight for real aas and keep hush about it and just simply say they're natural supplements? can't know much diff in them terms? might just be concerned about the whole Roid rage thing? either way you're putting extra test in you're body? whether a PH or AAS? I think real gear would be far much better in terms of health/gains. PH's no doubt going to be real toxic on the liver some of them are NASTY!! I've never even used yet but I have too many mates who do and that being said their liver enzymes were raised significantly through likes of Superdrol, Tren Bombs and Shutdown hard.

There is a reason why probably any user on this forum will tell you ''Test is Best'' if so, why not just state you're using a PH when you're really on 500mg Test a week


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

@harrison180 



 &


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Youngstarz said:


> I hear what you're saying mate.
> 
> Bit of a silly reason to dabble with PH's when you'd ''probably'' be far more better of going with the real deal. If she would leave you over you using gear, then what else would she be prepared to leave you over? hmm... if it was me and if I was dead set on it? I would just go straight for real aas and keep hush about it and just simply say they're natural supplements? can't know much diff in them terms? might just be concerned about the whole Roid rage thing? either way you're putting extra test in you're body? whether a PH or AAS? I think real gear would be far much better in terms of health/gains. PH's no doubt going to be real toxic on the liver some of them are NASTY!! I've never even used yet but I have too many mates who do and that being said their liver enzymes were raised significantly through likes of Superdrol, Tren Bombs and Shutdown hard.
> 
> There is a reason why probably any user on this forum will tell you ''Test is Best'' if so, why not just state you're using a PH when you're really on 500mg Test a week


Already told her im buying mass gain, protien and carbs in pill form cuz i cant stand the shakes lol ;-). I dunno why i want to do ph cycle i just do. Maybe there isnt that many bad stories on here about them apart from some find them good and others a waste of money. I read the steroid section and its full of shrinking nuts, my nuts havent gone back to normal size etc. Also i dont fancy injecting myself and a ph is a cap.

Might be a complete waste of time, effort and money but i hate thinking what if.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

harrison180 said:


> Already told her* im buying mass gain, protien and carbs in pill form* cuz i cant stand the shakes lol ;-). I dunno why i want to do ph cycle i just do. Maybe there isnt that many bad stories on here about them apart from some find them good and others a waste of money. I read the steroid section and its full of shrinking nuts, my nuts havent gone back to normal size etc. Also i dont fancy injecting myself and a ph is a cap.
> 
> Might be a complete waste of time, effort and money but i hate thinking what if.


huh? in pill form? ahahah I just lol'd what tablet or pill out there can act as a weight gainer? so you take this tablet which isn't food or a gainer shake but acts as a gainer shake and can contribute e.g. 500kcals other macro's ect? I have never seen a product like this lol. there not all bad when someone say's ''I can't stomach the shakes'' I can't help but laugh because 1. if it's with water than yeah it's pretty f***ing horrible lol. 2. They generally don't like ''Milkshakes?'' who the hell doesn't like a milkshake?

You may of purchased some whey protein in the past and got a poor quality brand maybe? who knows but some out there are actually delicious  (When taken with milk that is although I can stomach them Post/wo with water) If you like milkshakes from mcdonalds anywhere else yada yada yada.... then a good sup company whey protein with milk is delicious. in fact I may go to my stash now and mix 1 up ahaha. but as for ''I dunno why I want to do a ph cycle I just do'' that's not really the outlook you have to putting potentially very dangerous chemicals in you're body for an increased hormone output.

I would research and learn a lot more. but as you said maybe there isn't that many bad stories about them? IMO F*** a story and (Someone else's experience with a drug) because it's YOU who's going to be taking the s*** not big john who gained 23lbs of oxy black and was fine. you can't go of something like that! you're body obviously is going to be very different and react differently from the person the experience/story/review came from. I've read a member here can't think of his name but he's used SD Matrix say's he likes the stuff, gets on well with it. however I know full well if I used SD? it would most certainly write me off.

I think I would rather use ''Nap50's'' solo then consume some PH's even the likes of EPI (Epistane) very mild? actually nasty stuff! I nearly ran it when I was 17 like an idiot till I researched more and binned the whole stack I had which was this  as for you saying about nuts going back to normal size ect, am not 1 to say as am not a user but HCG is meant to of great use to combat testicular atrophy maybe to an ''extent'' that is, I am not sure if it would prevent any shrinking at all occurring someone else will enlighten you about that. google spot injections, have someone experienced who isn't a dummie who frequently often injects or has give you a run down on the protocol to do so.

I would just listen to the old veterans of this forum who know there stuff and will cut you the real deal. as well as gaining knowledge medically and else where from professionals on the matter. the best thing you could is just pluck up enough bottle and go for a standard test only cycle. people said to me in the past if you're not willing to pin yourself? forget using it's not for you. shutdown, ED all steroid related side effects come from Pro Hormones!! as well if not worse side effects from PH's, just to let you know.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Youngstarz said:


> huh? in pill form? ahahah I just lol'd what tablet or pill out there can act as a weight gainer? so you take this tablet which isn't food or a gainer shake but acts as a gainer shake and can contribute e.g. 500kcals other macro's ect? I have never seen a product like this lol. there not all bad when someone say's ''I can't stomach the shakes'' I can't help but laugh because 1. if it's with water than yeah it's pretty f***ing horrible lol. 2. They generally don't like ''Milkshakes?'' who the hell doesn't like a milkshake?
> 
> You may of purchased some whey protein in the past and got a poor quality brand maybe? who knows but some out there are actually delicious  (When taken with milk that is although I can stomach them Post/wo with water) If you like milkshakes from mcdonalds anywhere else yada yada yada.... then a good sup company whey protein with milk is delicious. in fact I may go to my stash now and mix 1 up ahaha. but as for ''I dunno why I want to do a ph cycle I just do'' that's not really the outlook you have to putting potentially very dangerous chemicals in you're body for an increased hormone output.
> 
> ...


the 1st bit about the pill form i was on about lying to the mrs lol, you said in a previous post to me to take steroids and tell her its just normal supplements, thats what im doing about the ph. she aint got a clue about whats on the supplement market so i just said thats whats in the pills lol  .

i've heard good and bad things about them but as you say thats them and not me. theres only so much you can learn about swimming reading a book but you have to get wet sooner or later  . if i take them and nothing happens, or i have bad sides etc i'll say. if you google most questions about them this forum is 1st to come up but its not about me. i may grow off them i may fail who knows. im not going for a strong one that guys who have done loads take in hope i turn into the hulk after the cycle cuz im not like that. i take steps before i run.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

harrison180 said:


> the 1st bit about the pill form i was on about lying to the mrs lol, you said in a previous post to me to take steroids and tell her its just normal supplements, thats what im doing about the ph. she aint got a clue about whats on the supplement market so i just said thats whats in the pills lol  .
> 
> i've heard good and bad things about them but as you say thats them and not me. theres only so much you can learn about swimming reading a book but you have to get wet sooner or later  . if i take them and nothing happens, or i have bad sides etc i'll say. if you google most questions about them this forum is 1st to come up but its not about me. i may grow off them i may fail who knows. im not going for a strong one that guys who have done loads take in hope i turn into the hulk after the cycle cuz im not like that. i take steps before i run.


Yeah man, best of luck then mate :thumbup1: hopefully you'll come on nice, let me know how you get on.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Strange how all this talk is in the natural section?


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Youngstarz said:


> Yeah man, best of luck then mate :thumbup1: hopefully you'll come on nice, let me know how you get on.


watching them vids u linked me to. very interesting, very right but i still have that voice in my head lol.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> Strange how all this talk is in the natural section?


very true mate, it was natural when i started it as i was asking how to naturaly get test levels up but i see its gone away from that now.

NO MORE PH TALK ON THIS THREAD PLEASE, JUST NATURAL WAYS OF BOOSTING TEST IF THERE IS ANY. THANK YOU.


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