# My First Cycle (Test E/500mg)



## WRX333

Before Pics page 1

4 Week pics page 7

8 Week pics page 11

Hi people,

This is my log to keep track of my first cycle. After a lot of huming &

ha-ring about weather i should take the step to the darkside

(which can be found here; http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/53263-when-did-you-decide-start-taking-steroids.html)

i finally decided to do it & jabbed for the first time last sun 15th march.

My training background/experience can be found here: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/members-pictures/46102-wrx333-big-marcs-first-journal.html

Im 25yo, 17st 5lb & ive been training on/off for years inc hard weight training for the last 2-3 years. i feel im at or very near to fulfilling my natural potential as i have hit a wall this year & am not gaining no matter how hard i train or much i eat. Im currently consuming 3750-4250 calories a day made up of a good ratio of protein, carbs, good fats etc....

My gear is rotexmedica testosterone enanthate (http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/aas-picture-board/53811-anyone-used-test-e-rotexmedica.html) & im doing 500mg a week every sunday (starting last sunday). I made sure i had everything needed for my cycle inc winstrol (oral) to fil gap, PCT/HCG & I read the steroid section of the forum inside out, inc jabbing/aspirating proceedures before my first jab.

My gf does my jabbing for me in my outer/upper glute. I was really looking forward to it strangely, until was in:whistling:. lol. Little pr**k going in, aspirating went fine, but then about half way through i realised there was a needle stuck 1" 1/2 into my ass cheek & i began to feel faint.:laugh: Was a bit numb for a few days but fine after that.

My full cycle looks like this:

Week 1 - Test E (500mg)

Week 2 - Test E (500mg)

Week 3 - Test E (500mg)

Week 4 - Test E (500mg)

Week 5 - Test E (500mg)

Week 6 - Test E (500mg)

Week 7 - Test E (500mg)

Week 8 - Test E (500mg)

Week 9 - Test E (500mg)

Week 10- Test E (500mg)

Week 11- Test E (500mg)

Week 12- Test E (500mg) + 50mg ed Winny

Week 13- 50mg ed Winny

Week 14- 50mg ed Winny

Week 15- 50mg ed winny

(PCT now starting here, 3 weeks after last jab on advice from hacksii)

Week 16- Nolva/Clomid + HCG 500iu eod

Week 17- Nolva/Clomid + HCG 500iu eod

Week 18- Nolva/Clomid + HCG 500iu eod

Second jab tomorrow, kind of looking forward to it again as i can't wait to start seeing results in the mirror.

A major reason for me starting this log is so i can receive help constructive critisism on all aspects of the cycle inc training diet etc....

P.S. big thanks to Anabolic Ant & Waheed Akhtar for the help/advice & guidance you ve given me on setting up my cycle. :thumbup1:


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## WRX333

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## Guest

Nice one bro, everything looks good, no doubt your going to grow like a weed lol! If you can do some 4 week progress pics, start, week 4,8, 12 and PCT, would be good to look back on. Good luck!


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## Guest

lol beat me to it, pics up already..like I said before good base to be starting with, first cycle always the best one!


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## ricey

fair play to ya mate.im looking at doing this at some point soon hopefully things will go well for you. ill keep tuning in to check you progress and to cristicise the way your doing things lol. your cycle sounds good ****.


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## pbul2004

Ive just finished my test e 500mg for 10 weeks and had great gains. I dont know if it matters but i was told to do HCG 500iu twice a week throughout the cycle and also have Adex to stop gyno?


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## dmcc

No kickstart?


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## MaKaVeLi

Now then big fella, looking forward to reading this. Good luck:thumbup1:


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## WRX333

Nice one guys :thumbup1:

WA - Sounds a good idea, pics at 4 week intervals:thumbup1:

ricey - all for constructive crisism mate, ive still a lot to learn

pbul2004 - read through your log mate, was good stuff :thumbup1: Ive discussed the HCG with a few people & decided to keep it on hand throughout just incase & use at end.

dmcc - Was initially gonna do a kickstart but ended up doin just the test first cycle to see how i react to it. Thinking i should have done it now cause im impatient as fvck

MaK - cheers mate


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## anabolic ant

yes bro...nice intro...you are now part of the darkside...come join the party...yeeehaaa,hahahaha!!!!

nice one man...hope its going well,wont be too long now!!!!

your cycle is sound,PCT...cool...and well enough training under the belt!!!!

glad to see some-one who has waited and pushed their natural boundaries before getting into the AAS's...nice one bro!!!!

you know i'll be following this with great interest...i was gonna say you could follow on after the HCG & clomid,with tamox/nolva for a week or two,but dont get worried i see you got everything in hand and in control...reckon this gonna be a good journal...your bodyfat is good,training experience and size etc is good to start with...looking forward to seeing another hulk arise from the stones!!!!

in a bit bro!!!!


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## noturbo

Good to see more logs cropping up on here nowadays, this one looks as if it's gonna be a good one too :thumbup1:

I'll be keeping an eye on your progress, goodluck mate!


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## Tom1990

:thumbup1:

good look mate all seems to be in order :thumb:


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## EDG301

Im not entirely certain, but i read somewhere that if your going to use hcg at the end of the cycle instead of during more is needed to get full recovery - quote 'These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno'

might be over reacting but heres the site where i found info - http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/hcg-article.html


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## pbul2004

this might be of interest to you >

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid...ion/49183-hcg-everything-you-wanted-know.html

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/49183-hcg-everything-you-wanted-know.html


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## WRX333

Cheers for the comments guys

Dan Ellis/pbul2004 - An interesting argument, the way i understood before reading these articles was that using the HCG throughout was'nt essential unless blast-cruisng or cycles over a longer period. If i was to run the HCG throughout, now would be the time to start as my first shot was 7 days ago.

Whats everyone elses opinions or experiences with this???


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## Big Dawg

Looks good mate. Nice and simple for your first cycle. I do think you'd benefit from starting the HCG a bit earlier; say week 8 or 9. If you run 500IU EOD up until you start PCT this should aid your recovery. Doesn't have to be EOD though, you could do E5D to account for the half-life if you like, though I would probably be inclined to run it EOD until my balls were back up, then perhaps E4or5D after that.

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure you'll get a lot out of having the winny in there. Seeing as it's your first cycle I'd probs say keep it simple and only use the one compound. My first cycle was 500mg test PW and nolva PCT. The HCG will help however, but if I were to run my first cycle again, I'd probably go with dbol, test, HCG and tamoxifen. Not sure you'll need two PCT drugs for your first cycle, but you may see a benefit.

Good luck anyway mate, you seem to have your head screwed on  .


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## WRX333

Cheers mate, im really having second thoughts about when to start my HCG now :confused1: . Going to read up on it abit more a think, last thing i wont is long term problems etc...

Ive put the winny in to hopefully harden/cut me up abit towards the end of cycle, open to opinions on alternatives etc.

Had my second jab this morning after a minute or two moaning like a little girl:laugh: the missis stuck it in my ass:rolleyes: & i was sorted. Abit of numb pain goin in but no problems.

Chest & Tri's tomorrow:thumb:


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## niknaknok

hi mate

your cycle looks good for your first time i can see you have spent some time on this and pct looks good also.if your diet is good than i dont think it will be too long before you see the gains in the mirror.just a thought though mate if i was doin that course id would not change anything apart from maybe doin an extra week of winny to make it 4 weeks imo.

good luck though bro,keep us all posted. :rockon:


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## hackskii

dan ellis said:


> Im not entirely certain, but i read somewhere that if your going to use hcg at the end of the cycle instead of during more is needed to get full recovery - quote 'These studies show that postponing hCG usage until the end of a steroid cycle increases your need for a higher dose of hCG, and decreases your odds of a full recovery. As a consequence to using a higher dose of hCG at the end of a cycle, estrogen will be increased disproportionately to testosterone, which then causes further HPTA suppression (from high estrogen) while increasing the risk of gyno'
> 
> might be over reacting but heres the site where i found info - http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/hcg-article.html


HCG does heavily aromitize and an AI potentially should be used depending on the dose.

Estrogen is approx 200 times more supressive than testosterone.

One may run HCG all at the end, or during the cycle.

Yes you will need more at the end than if you ran it during your cycle.

If you run it during, you need far less to keep the testicles stimulated so they wont atrophy as bad, if at all.

A few thoughts from what I read.

Start your PCT 3 weeks from last jab, 2 weeks is not enough time for the androgens to clear and this in itself will not promote the recovery of the HPTA, so the first week of your PCT will be worthless as androgens are too high.

Use HCG throughout, low dose 500iu twice a week.

Run an AI throughout, this will keep estrogen at bay and aid in recovery.

Run the clomid 100mg for 3 weeks and the nolva @ 20mg for 4 weeks.

Run your HCG right up to the start of your PCT, and even a couple of days will be fine inside the PCT.

By doing the above, you will keep estrogen at bay, aid in testicular function with the use of HCG.

Once the PCT starts you should not have that big of deal for recovery.


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## Mars

:lol: HCG doesn't aromatise, it's a leutinizing hormone.

Couldn't resist that Scott. 

But i would like to point out that your idea for using an AI could have other benefits, IE, androgen priming using adex before and while on HCG can significantly increase GnRH agonists and testosterone in follicular fluid but not in plasma, but the HCG is obviously increasing plasma testosterone by 200+% anyway.


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## hackskii

Well, actually HCG does stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels.

So, you get what I mean.

It is this testicular atromatase that is said to have the ill conciquences of desentization of the leydig cells.

Nolva helps to protect the leydig cells when using large doses of HCG from excess estrogen.

For how much HCG raises testosterone, it elivates estrogen far more.


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> Well, actually HCG does stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels.
> 
> So, you get what I mean.
> 
> It is this testicular atromatase that is said to have the ill conciquences of desentization of the leydig cells.
> 
> Nolva helps to protect the leydig cells when using large doses of HCG from excess estrogen.
> 
> For how much HCG raises testosterone, it elivates estrogen far more.


Yep i know that and i know it happens due to the increase in cyclic AMP, but i was just pointing out that HCG doesn't aromatise to estrogen, but because it raises test levels by 200-300% then you get the subsequent aromatization of the excess test to estrogen.


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## geezuz

Hey, read Hackskiis PCT thread, btw u look prtty far from natty max but lets be honest a bit of test never hurt any one else did it??. Just make sure you bloody train hard as fuk. good luck mate!


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## hackskii

I did a shot of 1000iu HCG and within one day I had a pain and a small lump in my left nipple, that stuff gives me gyno faster than anything.

I really would not recommend it without some form of estrogen management.


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> I did a shot of 1000iu HCG and within one day I had a pain and a small lump in my left nipple, that stuff gives me gyno faster than anything.
> 
> I really would not recommend it without some form of estrogen management.


I agree Scott. What are your thoughts on the androgen priming using adex idea in post #20?


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## brownie

Welcome to the dark side mate,.. and best of luck. you will love it.

i have always run hcg throughout my cycles,. but i did not run it in my first cycle. and i noticed the recovery from the cycles with hcg was much better.. and i like the idea of preventing the testies from shuting down in the first place. rather that letting them shut down completely and then trying to restart them before PCT.


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## hackskii

mars1960 said:


> I agree Scott. What are your thoughts on the androgen priming using adex idea in post #20?


Well, clomid is well documented to double LH output and increase FSH by 20% to 50% @ 100mg between 5 to 7 days.

I doubt one could get the stimulation that clomid would.

Estrogen management at the end of the cycle is critical actaully, due to the drop in estrogens as the gear clears, and the higher than normal aromitization during the cycle, this could lead to a shift in the T to E ratio.

Have known dudes to get gyno at the end of the cycle.

I do believe in estrogen management.

I dont really like the idea of running an AI for PCT myself.

Estrogen rebounding, is one concern as well as lipid profiles that are already compromised.

Nolva for instance on the other hand improves lipid profiles.

I did a PCT with aromasin and nolva, and actually failed.

For me nothing works like clomid, that stuff works killer for what I use it for.


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> Well, clomid is well documented to double LH output and increase FSH by 20% to 50% @ 100mg between 5 to 7 days.
> 
> I doubt one could get the stimulation that clomid would.
> 
> Estrogen management at the end of the cycle is critical actaully, due to the drop in estrogens as the gear clears, and the higher than normal aromitization during the cycle, this could lead to a shift in the T to E ratio.
> 
> Have known dudes to get gyno at the end of the cycle.
> 
> I do believe in estrogen management.
> 
> I dont really like the idea of running an AI for PCT myself.
> 
> Estrogen rebounding, is one concern as well as lipid profiles that are already compromised.
> 
> Nolva for instance on the other hand improves lipid profiles.
> 
> I did a PCT with aromasin and nolva, and actually failed.
> 
> For me nothing works like clomid, that stuff works killer for what I use it for.


Well thanks for that Scott:laugh:, but any thoughts on androgen priming with adex pre and during HCG? RE post # 20 (nothing to do with PCT).

PS, would estrogen rebound be greatly reduced if you were to androgen prime with adex while using HCG pre PCT.


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## hackskii

I am not sure I understand your concept of androgen primming.

I cant comment as I am not sure what you mean.

Do you mean that adex with HCG would help to turn on the switch to testosterone production?

I would bet it not only would be necessary but a damn good idea to use an AI or a SERM with the use of HCG, not only for sides, but for recovery.

But, if you mean the pituitary, I doubt that with the use of exogenous androgens, coupled with the use of HCG that the pituitary would get any responce with FSH or LH with the use of any AI or SERM.

That would be like suggesting there is recovery of the HPTA with the use of SERMS and HCG during a cycle, that wont happen.

The testicles will, but HCG is pretty damn supressive on the hypothalmus and pituitary.

I am probably not understanding what you are saying though.


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## ba baracuss

I'm not sure what mars means by androgen priming either, but I would take a guess that he means running an AI before running a cycle to nail naturally ocurring estrogen and thus increase (relatively at least) test levels.


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## hackskii

Blocking estrogen to boost testosterone is pointless for gains, pointless for libido, and a waste of money with the exception of gyno reversing.


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## WRX333

Cheers guys, im learning something new from every post (& i thought i was reasonably clued up  )

Still not completely decided on when to do HCG as im hearing so many different opinions/experiences both on & off the forum although im leaning towards using throughout. Going to try & get some slin pins tomorrow as ive only got greens & blues at the mo. If running throughout, am i right in thinking that i should start max 14 days after 1st jab?

Trained chest & tri's today, really good session. I was really pumped, i think due to the psychological effect its having on me & the fact i know whats coming

flat bench 10, 8, 6 x 42.5 db's (focus on technique, twist at top)

incline bench 6x40, 8x35, 6x35 " " " " "

decline bench 10, 8, 6 x 80 barbell

flat flies 3 x 10, 20db's

tricep ext machine 5x12 full stack

dip 3 x failure

Not all absolute max weight but trying to keep form perfect so when i start lifting houses the techniques bang on.

Also, ive gained 4lb since starting out which i'll credit to my improved diet & possibly abit of water.

thanks for looking people, plz keep the advice & CC's coming:thumbup1:

Big Marc


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## hackskii

Yah, run that throughout, I would also run low dose at the end of the first week.

The idea here is to keep the nuts alive so you wont have to overstimulate them at the end, this works out better.

but if you are running pregnyl then I would buy some bacteriostatic water, it will make the HCG last almost a month.

I dont think the solution would last too long with the amps it comes with, not to mention dosing isnt perfect.


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## WRX333

Cheers Hacks,

Im going to get some slin pins today, im now on week 2, day 3 so will be best of starting today once ive got the pins if im being preventative.

Just to confirm, i'll start of doing 250iu into my lower abs with a slin pin twice a week? I have 3 vials (sealed type) of HCG & a small amount of bac water, probably 2 or 3 ml. Im going to mix 1ml of bac with one vial of HCG to produce 5000iu. Once i take my dose off this i need to keep it refridgerated, im assuming you guys keep it in the fridge in multi vials?

Will it be OK kept refrigerated in the open HCG vial (top snapped off) until i can source some multi vials?

Cheers

Marc


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## brownie

WRX333 said:


> Cheers Hacks,
> 
> Im going to get some slin pins today, im now on week 2, day 3 so will be best of starting today once ive got the pins if im being preventative.
> 
> Just to confirm, i'll start of doing 250iu into my lower abs with a slin pin twice a week? I have 3 vials (sealed type) of HCG & a small amount of bac water, probably 2 or 3 ml. Im going to mix 1ml of bac with one vial of HCG to produce 5000iu. Once i take my dose off this i need to keep it refridgerated, im assuming you guys keep it in the fridge in multi vials?
> 
> Will it be OK kept refrigerated in the open HCG vial (top snapped off) until i can source some multi vials?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Marc


Maybe cover it with cling film or somthing,.. i did 500ius twice a week...


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## WRX333

**** is aching today today. Sore to sit on that cheek. Had a numb pain last time for a few days but its worse this time. Not unbareable & there's no lump or redness so im presuming its normal. Got the missis on the slin pin trail today while im in work. Back & Bi's tonight, looking forward to it


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## brownie

I used slin pins last time,.. just get a small pinch of flesh and jab...

I have in the past drawn up the required amount in the pump with the test, and IM injected the two together,.. it won't mix as one is oil and the other is water. but once in the muscle, it will absorb.

it can be a little harder to get the amount as accurate this way.


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## WRX333

brownie said:


> I used slin pins last time,.. just get a small pinch of flesh and jab...
> 
> I have in the past drawn up the required amount in the pump with the test, and IM injected the two together,.. it won't mix as one is oil and the other is water. but once in the muscle, it will absorb.
> 
> it can be a little harder to get the amount as accurate this way.


Cheers mate, sounds a good idea get the two done at once! I did'nt realise i could do that. Think id probably struggle getting an accurate measure of 500iu of HCG into the syringe though.

Hopefully get it goin tonight, i'll post up my progress later on.

Cheers

Marc


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## tahir

your cycle is very similar to what i might be doing. I will be keeping a close eye on this


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## WRX333

Been doing even more research on the HCG front. Am i correct in thinking that the HCG could possibly cause gyno & if so i'll need to run it with something else, (say Nolva 20mg ed) to keep gyno at bay? It just seems although the HCG throughout has its benefits its causing my cycle to suddenly become more & more complicated.

Also, i sent the Missis to the Needle exchange today while im at work, she was told i have to go in myself so i can register & also i need to know exactly what pins i need even though she asked for insulin pins? Apparently i need to know gauge size, barrel etc etc. Surely a slin is a slin pin:confused1: Any help on exact size etc would be help full.

Cheers

Marc


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> I am not sure I understand your concept of androgen primming.
> 
> I cant comment as I am not sure what you mean.
> 
> Do you mean that adex with HCG would help to turn on the switch to testosterone production?
> 
> I would bet it not only would be necessary but a damn good idea to use an AI or a SERM with the use of HCG, not only for sides, but for recovery.
> 
> But, if you mean the pituitary, I doubt that with the use of exogenous androgens, coupled with the use of HCG that the pituitary would get any responce with FSH or LH with the use of any AI or SERM.
> 
> That would be like suggesting there is recovery of the HPTA with the use of SERMS and HCG during a cycle, that wont happen.
> 
> The testicles will, but HCG is pretty damn supressive on the hypothalmus and pituitary.
> 
> I am probably not understanding what you are saying though.


Iv'e read a few clinical studies that show taking adex 1wk before you start your HCG and continuing with the adex during your course of HCG does indeed increase GnRH and testosterone levels in follicular fluid. (this is called androgen priming with AI's)

Do you think that given the above criteria that it;s worth considering this protocol?


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## hackskii

WRX, 500iu twice a week would be ok, if you notice testicular atrophy you can increase the frequency some.

The amp that comes with the solution of pregnyl is not bacteriostatic water, it is salene(sp) water, it wont last as long with that.

I also prefere an AI over a SERM myself, something like arimidex would be fine, I dont like femara/letro, and aromasin to me seems weak, I like adex the best actually.

If the dose of HCG is small, gyno should not be an issue, if you are shooting more than 500iu, then yah, I would run something in there, I just dont like the idea of long term use of nolva myself.

Mars, I know Swale and William L. (anabolic books), and Dr. Scally all do not adopt the AI approach when doing a PCT.

I have tried aromasin and nolva and to be honest, it was a failed PCT for me.

Honestly I doubt you can get a bigger responce of LH and FSH than clomid can give, regardless if an AI is used or not.

Clomid is used to determine if one is secondary hypogonadism and the test is called the clomid stimulation test.

They dont use nolva, they dont use arimidex, they use clomid, and they also use clomid in men for fertility issues too.

But, in all honesty, I do use an AI throughout, and even during clearance times of the gear, but I have never used adex in my PCT, only aromasin and I feel without clomid in the mix, recovery can be compromised.


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> Mars, I know Swale and William L. (anabolic books), and Dr. Scally all do not adopt the AI approach when doing a PCT.
> 
> I have tried aromasin and nolva and to be honest, it was a failed PCT for me.
> 
> Honestly I doubt you can get a bigger responce of LH and FSH than clomid can give, regardless if an AI is used or not.
> 
> Clomid is used to determine if one is secondary hypogonadism and the test is called the clomid stimulation test.
> 
> They dont use nolva, they dont use arimidex, they use clomid, and they also use clomid in men for fertility issues too.
> 
> But, in all honesty, I do use an AI throughout, and even during clearance times of the gear, but I have never used adex in my PCT, only aromasin and I feel without clomid in the mix, recovery can be compromised.


 :lol: i give in, what you have posted has absolutely nothing to do with my Question about adex and HCG ( *nothing to do with PCT and clomid* ) i already know with my eyes shut everything you mentioned above, but thanks for the response anyway.

I'll start a thread on androgen priming and HCG.

Appologies to WRX for the hijack of your log, good luck with the cycle mate.


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## hackskii

mars1960 said:


> :lol: i give in, what you have posted has absolutely nothing to do with my Question about adex and HCG ( *nothing to do with PCT and clomid* ) i already know with my eyes shut everything you mentioned above, but thanks for the response anyway.
> 
> I'll start a thread on androgen priming and HCG.
> 
> Appologies to WRX for the hijack of your log, good luck with the cycle mate.


Sorry man, I must be sleeping, send me a link to what you are suggesting.


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## hackskii

mars1960 said:


> Iv'e read a few clinical studies that show taking adex 1wk before you start your HCG and continuing with the adex during your course of HCG does indeed increase GnRH and testosterone levels in follicular fluid. (this is called androgen priming with AI's)
> 
> Do you think that given the above criteria that it;s worth considering this protocol?


Ok, beings that I use adex throughout the cycle as well as HCG throughout the cycle, that protocol wont work for what I am doing.

Not being closed minded mate, but that would be something I would consider if I did not use HCG during my cycle.

Was these clinical studies done with guys on gear?


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## WRX333

please continue guys (seriously) im learning from each & every post, its all constructive:thumbup1:

Got my slin pins & the HCG i have is generic & came with bac water!

Just got in from a back session, going to eat now, i'll post my routine later on.

cheers

Marc


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## hackskii

I am reading that article that Mars posted, oh man, something like 60 pages or something.

I needed to take a break from that,,,,lol

Very heavy.


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## WRX333

^^^ :laugh:

Still not started the hcg as ive not got any amps to keep it in once mixed. Thinking of just wrapping in cling film as brownie mentioned. Also its potentially a problem keeping it refrigerated as ive not come out (about doing gear) & i don't want it being found or questioned?

Back & Bi's

Lat pulldown 3x10 full stack

Seat Row 3x10 14 on machine

Bent over row 3x10 40kg db's

Deadlift 6x135, 6x145, 6x155

Single concentrated curls 3x10 17.5kg db

hammer curls " " " "


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## hackskii

No mate, pre-load all your syrenges and put them in the fridge to keep, then just pull one out as you need it.

Make it easy on yourself, that will be 10 preloaded syrenges of 500iu from that 5,000iu amp.

Dont cling wrap that.

Or use a clean multi-use vial.


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## Tall

WRX333 said:


> ^^^ :laugh:
> 
> Still not started the hcg as ive not got any amps to keep it in once mixed. Thinking of just wrapping in cling film as brownie mentioned. Also its potentially a problem keeping it refrigerated as ive not come out (about doing gear) & i don't want it being found or questioned?
> 
> Back & Bi's
> 
> Lat pulldown 3x10 full stack
> 
> Seat Row 3x10 14 on machine
> 
> Bent over row 3x10 40kg db's
> 
> Deadlift 6x135, 6x145, 6x155
> 
> Single concentrated curls 3x10 17.5kg db
> 
> hammer curls " " " "


DL first.

Then chins.

Then rows.


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## Tall

mars1960 said:


> :lol: HCG doesn't aromatise, it's a leutinizing hormone.
> 
> Couldn't resist that Scott.
> 
> But i would like to point out that your idea for using an AI could have other benefits, IE, androgen priming using adex before and while on HCG can significantly increase GnRH agonists and testosterone in follicular fluid but not in plasma, but the HCG is obviously increasing plasma testosterone by 200+% anyway.


Did you start a thread?

I've only heard of that before from a female fertility point of view until now.

Are you thinking of creating an anabolic environment within the body prior to the introduction of the exogenous test?

Would it not lead to shutdown faster though due to the negative feedback loop?


----------



## hackskii

Tall said:


> Did you start a thread?
> 
> I've only heard of that before from a female fertility point of view until now.
> 
> Are you thinking of creating an anabolic environment within the body prior to the introduction of the exogenous test?
> 
> Would it not lead to shutdown faster though due to the negative feedback loop?


Tall, I think he means primming of endo levels at the end of a cycle before HCG.

He said he had some study on it but got a trojan virus and it wiped everything.


----------



## Tall

hackskii said:


> Tall, I think he means primming of endo levels at the end of a cycle before HCG.
> 
> He said he had some study on it but got a trojan virus and it wiped everything.


So keep aromatase in check, then start the HCG...? as a pre-pct...?

Makes sense, but what about the possible estrogen rebound post PCT?


----------



## hackskii

There wont be any estrogen rebounding because the PCT will have SERMS in it and beings that nolva takes so long to clear, that wont be a problem.

But, yah, that is what I think he was getting at.

But, I use an AI because I am gyno prone (now), and I also use HCG through out.

So, I am interested to see what he has come up with, any ways to tweak things to bring about a faster recovery will be welcome.

I am going to work with con on his recovery.


----------



## WRX333

Week 2, Day 4 - My left glute is painfull as fvck!

Did'nt hurt at all on the day of the jab (sun), Today its hurting like fvck! Sore to sit on etc. Its abit swollen, but not red at all & is'nt noticably hot to touch compared to the other side. I would'nt be bothered except for the fact my 1st jab (last week) never hurt this much & was fine after a day or two so thats what im comparing it to. Is this normal as its a fresh site?

Cheers

Marc


----------



## Ollie B

Keep it up man. I get days when i can hardly walk from jabbing but you gotta try and let it pass withouth effecting your training etc.

Looking good though man


----------



## WRX333

Cheers Ollie, trained through last night no probs, its more the fact of just knowing its normal, cause the last one was virtually pain free. lol

Not long left on your cycle now:thumbup1:


----------



## Ollie B

WRX333 said:


> Cheers Ollie, trained through last night no probs, its more the fact of just knowing its normal, cause the last one was virtually pain free. lol
> 
> Not long left on your cycle now:thumbup1:


You will get used to it mate. I sometimes jab through nerves and hurts a bit. If you dont want to jab through one then take the pin out and start again and relocate the site. U will start seeing a difference in about week 4


----------



## WRX333

Cheers mate.

pain in my ass has more or less gone:thumb:

Still swollen, but no redness & not hot.

Must have just hit an awkward spot.


----------



## jaymadone

Great posts mate and very interesting to read.

I'm new to gear and have jabbed my glute about 4 times and found it painfull, I now jab in to my quads but warm the gear up before injecting and it flows in easier and I havent had any pain on the day or post jabbing - just a thought bro.


----------



## WRX333

Cheers j. I do warm the gear before & massage after & the reason i find glutes easiest is my missis does it for me.

Week 2, day 5,

I feel **** today, bad stomach, abit achey, and light headed. I thought gear again till my gf just phoned me & said shes the same. Only thing we had together was nandos last. I go 1-2 ew & never had a problem but we usually go hulme (Manchester) branch, Last night we went Parrs wood because we were in that neck of the woods, & this sh!t happens!

Seemed abit soft/watery/under cooked compared to normal, but we eat it anyway. So a warning DON'T GO PARRS WOOD NANDO'S!!!

Shoulders tonight, gonna train through the i'll feeling best i can because test should be on its way soon


----------



## C19H28O2

WRX333 said:


> Cheers j. I do warm the gear before & massage after & the reason i find glutes easiest is my missis does it for me.
> 
> Week 2, day 5,
> 
> I feel **** today, bad stomach, abit achey, and light headed. I thought gear again till my gf just phoned me & said shes the same. Only thing we had together was nandos last. I go 1-2 ew & never had a problem but we usually go hulme (Manchester) branch, Last night we went Parrs wood because we were in that neck of the woods, & this sh!t happens!
> 
> Seemed abit soft/watery/under cooked compared to normal, but we eat it anyway. So a warning *DON'T GO PARRS WOOD NANDO'S*!!!
> 
> Shoulders tonight, gonna train through the i'll feeling best i can because test should be on its way soon


Funny you should say that I've had a dodgy meal from there, stick to the one in fallowfield now.

gd luck with the cycle - sh*t starts to get interesting from week 3:thumbup1:


----------



## pastanchicken

WRX, missed this mate. Will follow from now though mate.

Good luck with it!


----------



## WRX333

Cheers guys, i really appreciate the support:thumbup1:

My a$$ is still swollen but is not hurtin unless i press/massage it or sit down to quick. Had a bath & got my missis to massage it yesterday, i thought the swelling had gone down a bit but it seems to have just been pushed around & is now mainly out toward my leg

:confused1:

I'll be keeping a close eye on it over the next few days!

Shoulders

Seated shoulder db press - 40kg x 6, 35kg x 8, 32.5kg x 8, 30kg x 10

Seated shoulder bb press - 3 x 10 70kg

Front & Lat raises (super sets) - 3 x 10 (each) 12.5kg

Shrugs - 5 x 10 42.5kg db's

Bi's

Single concentrated curls - 10, 8, 8 x 20kg

Hammer curls - 3 x 10 15kg

Tomorrows legs & hopefully less swelling on my a$$ :laugh:

Cheers

Marc


----------



## WRX333

Week 2 - Day 6

A$$ still slightly swollen & painful but the swellings less than yesterday.

Legs

Squats 100kg x 10, 110kg x 8, 120kg x 8, 130 kg x 6 (PB)

Calf Raises 130kg, 115kg, 100kg to failure

Leg extension 3 x 10 full stack

Leg Curls 3 x 10 full stack

Leg Press 170, 180, 190kg x 10

Super painful:cursing:

Chest & Tri's again tomorrow.


----------



## WRX333

Went to cosmos gym in sale today for abit of variety. Much better than my gym for meeting my goals. Ive decided im joining it permanently once my current membership runs out. (end of april).

Chest & Tri's

Flat bench barbell 100kg x 10, 110kg x 7, 120kg x 4, 100kg x 10

Incline bb press 3 x 10 @ 90kg

Decline bb press 3 x 10 @ 90kg

Seated flies 95, 100, 105kg x 10

dips 2 x failure

skull crushers 3 x 10 @ 35kg

Narrow grip bp 3 x 10 @ 55kg

Rest day & 3rd jab tomorrow:thumbup1:


----------



## WRX333

3rd Jab yesterday. No problems.

Back & Bi's

DL - 135 x 6, 145 x 6, 160 x 4 ()

Lat pulldown - 3 x 10 full stack (100kg)

Seated Row (wide grip) - 3 x 10 12/13/14 on machine

DB Reverse flys - 3 x 10 - 12.5kg

Single concentrated curls - 2 x 10 20kg

curls 2 x 10 17.5kg

Hammer curls - 2 x 10 17.5kg

Shoulders tomorrow:thumbup1:


----------



## WRX333

Week 3 Day 3rd

Started feeling horny as fvck the last few days :thumb: the mrs is loving it!!!

Shoulders

seated db press 10 x 35kg, 8 x 35kg, 6 x 35kg, 4 x 35kg,

shrugs 5 x 10 @ 40kg db's

seated bb press 3 x 6 @ 70kg

front raises/lat raises (SS) 3 each x 10 @ 12.5kg

Trained solo today, no parter hence no spotter = slightly less weight. Still had a good session with really good pumps.

My a$$ is fine this week which means it must have just been the spot or slightly sloppy technique that had me moaning like id been a$$ fvcked all last week.


----------



## WRX333

A typical week day diet plan -

8.30 - Double protein shake with oats & milk

10.00 - 2-3 wholemeal toast with thick peanut butter

11.30 - Tuna salad wrap

13.00 - Chicken/fish/lamb dinner

14.30 - 2 x tuna salad wraps (3 wraps = 2 tins)

16.00 - Protein shake with oats & milk

17.00 - Gym

PWO protein shake with water & dextrose

19.00 - Chicken/fish dinner with the works (potatoes/veg)

21.30 - chicken pieces or cottage cheese with riveta

Protein shake with oats & milk before bed


----------



## Louis_C

WRX333 said:


> A typical week day diet plan -
> 
> 8.30 - Double protein shake with oats & milk
> 
> 10.00 - 2-3 wholemeal toast with thick peanut butter
> 
> 11.30 - Tuna salad wrap
> 
> 13.00 - Chicken/fish/lamb dinner
> 
> 14.30 - 2 x tuna salad wraps (3 wraps = 2 tins)
> 
> 16.00 - Protein shake with oats & milk
> 
> 17.00 - Gym
> 
> PWO protein shake with water & dextrose
> 
> 19.00 - Chicken/fish dinner with the works (potatoes/veg)
> 
> 21.30 - chicken pieces or cottage cheese with riveta
> 
> Protein shake with oats & milk before bed


Whats a double protein shake? Two shakes? Twice your normal amount? Twice the recommened amount? How much protein in a double shake?


----------



## WRX333

Louis_C said:


> Whats a double protein shake? Two shakes? Twice your normal amount? Twice the recommened amount? How much protein in a double shake?


 :lol: A valid point!

Twice my normal amount Louis, give the days protein intake a kick start

:thumb:


----------



## Louis_C

WRX333 said:


> :lol: A valid point!
> 
> Twice my normal amount Louis, give the days protein intake a kick start
> 
> :thumb:


Which is how many grams? Don't forget your body is only supposed to be able to process a certain amount at a time... You don't wanna be just ****ing your money away :tongue:


----------



## WRX333

Good point bro, i have read that before but can't remember how much the limit is? Will have to do some research. Normal dosage is 22g is so i reckon about 40-45g in the amply named "double protein shake" lol. I try to take/eat more of everything than your average size person/BB. Im 6' 6" & currently 17st 11lb.

Cheers bro:thumbup1:


----------



## Guest

Bumping this up for an update bro! How are things coming along..any weight gain yet, even water weight?


----------



## Guest

Just realised you have put on 6lb from the start already, good going mate, let me know how things are going


----------



## warlord94

You doing 500mg just every sunday ??

Just curious because i would do monday 250mg then thursday 250mg to keep blood levels stable.


----------



## Dizzee

Louis_C said:


> Which is how many grams? Don't forget your body is only supposed to be able to process a certain amount at a time... You don't wanna be just ****ing your money away :tongue:


Its also worth noting that the first 30g of protein you have in the morning is used up by your immune system, so a heavy protein breakfast is essential.

I also find that eating solid foods in the morning is more beneficial than shakes alone as it gives a greater feeling of satiety and ensures i dont overeat later in the day.


----------



## WRX333

Nice one guys:thumbup1:

Waheed - Weighed myself again yesterday mate, ive now gained 10lb since start of cycle. Im guessing its mainly water weight. Getting good pumps in the gym, but not major strength increases (yet). Been feeling SUPER HORNY lately though :laugh:

Warlord - Considered that mate but thought i would be ok as its enanthate (slow acting) so will disperse over a longer period.

Dizzee - cheers mate, i try to eat solid once settled in work, morning protein shakes an easy fix on waking. Just got a load of protein bars too, so they will be filling the holes.


----------



## WRX333

Thurs 02.04.09 - Chest

Flat DB press - 10, 8, 6 @ 42.5kg

Incline DB press - 3 x 10 @ 35kg

Decline BB Press - 10, 8, 6 @ 75kg

Flies - 3 x 10 @ 20kg DB's

rested on fri & went to cosmos gym, sale on sat for a back session. Got really good pumps & with good weight. Most noticable difference at the moment is the sex drive:w00t: OMG. Ive almost constantly got a budgie on. lol


----------



## hackskii

warlord94 said:


> You doing 500mg just every sunday ??
> 
> Just curious because i would do monday 250mg then thursday 250mg to keep blood levels stable.


Blood levels mean pretty much nothing with the exception of potential more sides with one shot.

I always do one jab.

Blood levels in men are never stable in regards to testosterone, the circadian rythem dictates this.


----------



## WRX333

Cheers Hacks:thumbup1:

Week 4 day 3 - Yesterday was the first day when i thought "**** me!!!"

Feeling funny & had a constant budgie on all day.

Did legs in the Gym last night & was super pumped. Worked so hard i knocked my self sick (almost). had to sit out for 5 minutes. Also hit a PB on squats which im pleased with cause its my weak point.

Legs & Tri's

Squats - 10 x 95, 8 x 115, 6 x 135 (PB)

Calf raises - 3 sets @ 100kg to failure

Lungs - 25kg DB's 3 x 6

Legs curl - 3 x 12 full stack

Leg Extension - 3 x 12 full stack

Leg Press - 3 x 10 @ 190kg (full stack)

Dips - 3 x failure

Tri extension machine - 3 x 20 full stack

Cable pulldown - 3 x 10 22.5kg (sloooow to finish off)

Shoulders tonight, can't wait, hopefully more PB's


----------



## rhubarb

Great diary WRX.

Really interesting read considering i am similar height (6'4") and weight (17st 6lbs) and am looking to start my first cycle in May of pretty much exactly the same doses of gear / PCT. Also train occasionally at Cosmos in Walton Park depending on time and bodypart as the kit at LA Fitness in Sale is just sh*te.

Keep up the good work mate.


----------



## WRX333

Cheers mate, yeah Cosmos is top draw for bodybuilding, has everything. My gyms sh*te for certain things too. My membership runs out end of this month though so i'll be moving on. Was goin to join cosmos full time but went & check out JJB trafford centre on sat & it was quite decent & also has sauna/steam too so im not sure now:confused1:


----------



## warlord94

hackskii said:


> Blood levels mean pretty much nothing with the exception of potential more sides with one shot.
> 
> I always do one jab.
> 
> Blood levels in men are never stable in regards to testosterone, the circadian rythem dictates this.


Explain in more detail please hack,

Iv always been taught there are more benifits from spaceing out the jabs


----------



## hackskii

warlord94 said:


> Explain in more detail please hack,
> 
> Iv always been taught there are more benifits from spaceing out the jabs


You produce about 49mg a week or 7 mg a day of test on average, some more some less, but close to that.

The equivalence to this for men on replacement therapy is 100mg of testosterone cypionate a week.

Now beings that guys are shooting from 400 to 500mg a week, you are far outside the normal limits of base values, by up to 5 times.

Mg for mg the weekly dose is the same.

Keeping the blood levels more stable wont give you more gains than shooting once a week, or ED, just more chances of scar tissue with more frequent jabs.

Now because the bigger dose will spike a bit higher there could be more chance of more aromatization, but most should be running an AI anyway.

The body does not even keep blood levels stable, circadian rhythm spikes testosterone in the morning and T levels climb and fall all day long, so even in normal men it is not stable.

So, this is why shooting more frequent does nothing for more gains but promotes more scar tissue.

In men using Testosterone replacement therapy, the newer stuff of testosterone is super long using undeconate ester, this you can shoot every 6 weeks or every 2 months.

It doesn't matter unless you are shooting 100mg or less a week, or you are shooting grams a week where you cant hit just one site to get it all in.


----------



## sedod86

so when taking hcg, would it be fine to take nolva at the same time? or wait untill your finished with the hcg then begin taking nolva?


----------



## hackskii

sedod86 said:


> so when taking hcg, would it be fine to take nolva at the same time? or wait untill your finished with the hcg then begin taking nolva?


Not sure what you mean.

One can take HCG throughout the cycle, if they didnt take HCG throughout the cycle then you can take it during PCT, but this may lengthen PCT as you need to take some form of estrogen control with the use of HCG depending on how much you are using.

If the cycle is small, then you may be able to get away with no HCG.


----------



## sedod86

thanks, im on my first cycle of test E, 250mg a week for ten weeks, i thought id be alright just takin nolva for pct but after reading up on it think it would be a good idea to take hcg for a bit just b4 end of cycle? then nolva after that?


----------



## hackskii

I would consider adding in clomid, nolva sucks by itself.

If the cycle is over 8 weeks, then I would add some HCG in there.


----------



## sedod86

ok great, i will do that thanks. how would you go about it on those three? like dosages, timescales etc?


----------



## WRX333

been super busy so not updated for a few days. Ive been training the same regime with good intensity & have hit PB's mostly every session over the last week:thumbup1: Diets been a bit poor over the last few days, not content but more the volume of food. Back track today & strict from now on!!!

im at the 4 week stage & have gained 11 pounds since before starting the cycle. (obviously a lot of water weight) but i still don't think ive made considerable gains in the mirror. Hopefully now its kicked in i'll be constantly gaining for the next 8+ weeks.

My lifts have gone up as follow DL 135ish > 170kg, Bench 120kg 1rm > 120kg x 5 good reps (will try new 1rm next week), squat 120kg > 140kg

Cheers


----------



## heavyweight

I would say that seing as the gear has only just started kicking in and the food bin a bit crap for the last few days u look good, i would say that u defo look firmer, your chest and traps look alot more filled out, good luck mate:thumbup1:


----------



## Graham24

Looking good mate, can see some good improvements in 4 weeks. Keep up the good work.:cool:


----------



## Gideon1969

looking good mate (cleary more muscle, with no extra fat--well done!).

Keep it up and good luck!

Very interesting thread, I'll keep an eye on it as I'm planning on a test cycle in the future.

cheers, mark


----------



## WRX333

Cheers for the comments guys.

Calorie intake back up (4000ish ed) now after a bad few days so hopefully i'll make some goods gains this week. Done my 5th shot this morning, had no PIP.

Legs tomorrow.


----------



## WRX333

Ended up doin chest today.

Flat db press 10 x 42.5, 8 x 42.5, 5 x 42.5, 8 x 35

Incline db press 6 x 42.5, 6 x 40, 6 x 35

Decline flies 3 x 10 @ 20kg

Concentration curls 5 x 10 @ 15kg

legs tomorrow


----------



## anabolic ant

hey mate...

i reckon you have put more size on your medial heads of your delts,also traps look like they are starting to come up...back looks like there has a been a small increase there and legs are looking good bro,can see separation and muscle groups coming up...good legs man...i reckon your cycle will be hitting hard soon...you getting any hungrier,staying pumped for longer,sex drive upping,recovery time quicker?

i'm sure things will be cool...your doing quite substantial weights above...nice one!!!!

keep up the hard work...and slamming in those calories bro!!!!


----------



## WRX333

Cheers Ant,

Not noticed a hunger increase, although i eat alot anyway, getting good long pumps, hard sessions etc. My sex drive has gone through the roof!!!!


----------



## Guest

anabolic ant said:


> hey mate...
> 
> i reckon you have put more size on your medial heads of your delts,also traps look like they are starting to come up...back looks like there has a been a small increase there and legs are looking good bro,can see separation and muscle groups coming up...good legs man...i reckon your cycle will be hitting hard soon...you getting any hungrier,staying pumped for longer,sex drive upping,recovery time quicker?
> 
> i'm sure things will be cool...your doing quite substantial weights above...nice one!!!!
> 
> keep up the hard work...and slamming in those calories bro!!!!


Agree with AA..your deffo looking more filled out, shape has come on, as said above delts have come ou more too..nice going so far bro!


----------



## WRX333

Still going well, had jab 6 yesterday, no pain, not phased at all by the jabs now.

Gyms going well, training hard every session. Making strength increases but struggling to gain noticeable size still! Maybe me being paranoid some what but i guess if i was happy i wouldn't train as hard. Appetites big apart from after gym:confused1: constantly eating all day in work. Can't believe im almost half way!


----------



## WRX333

Cheers DC

Im trying not to get hung up on it. Hopefully make good gains over the next week or two like you say. If not i may cry. lol.


----------



## hackskii

Clomid is the best oral for PCT there is IMO.

M1T is some nasty stuff.


----------



## Guest

What is your current rough diet looking like right now bro?


----------



## Rudedog

ScottyDog said:


> hey guys, ive jusat started a 2week cycle of (M1T 10mg for week1 then 20mg for week2)
> 
> i know how essential the PCT is but im strugling with the products. Im currently taking 1000mg of milk thistle but i cant find anywere with 6 oxo in stock for my PCT then someone said clomid... would this do this trick?? Please help


start your own thread mate


----------



## hackskii

Rudedog said:


> start your own thread mate


I just deleted 3 of those as he had 4 of them up.......


----------



## WRX333

cheers Hacks

WA - Rough daily atm - Protein shake with oats first thing, 9.30ish 2 whole toast with peanut butter, 11am 2 tuna or chicken wraps with salad, 1pm chicken/steak/fish etc with the works for lunch, 3pm 2 more wraps, 5pm gym, 6pm PWO shake with water & dextrose, 7pm similer to 1pm but more, 9pm chicken pieces or cottage cheese rivetta, before bed protein shake with oats & milk.

Open to suggestions.

Cheers

Marc


----------



## WRX333

Having trouble sleepin guys! For the last week or so ive been sleeping on & off, waking up numerous times through the night.

Will test peakin have an effect on your sleep as im now 6 weeks into my cycle & its just stated last week.

I don't normal have any problems, not a worrier & don't lose sleep if ive got probs or something on my mind

Any suggestions

Cheers

Marc


----------



## big_nige

good thread tempting me for my first test cycle


----------



## KINGKONG24

WRX......Good thread mate, how do you tag? I keep having to search each time i want to see your progress. :thumbup1:


----------



## BigDom86

cool thread been following as i might have a go one day  have you had any sides so far?

btw kingkong, click on thread tools > subscribe to this thread


----------



## WRX333

Cheers guys,

Had no sides so far (touch wood) apart from positives.

Good strength, pumps & recovery in the gym, major hornyness (excuse my terminology) almost constantly! Come down for slight periods (after relief, lol). Had no 'roid rage', no oily skin, a few really small spots (3 or 4) around upper back, nuts maybe slighty smaller but nothing major (maybe just me being paranoid). Was already really up for training but even more so now. Think half the rush is just knowing im on. Im also starting to get a few 'you've gone big' comments from mates etc. Mainly people i haven't seen for a while, but im still not convinced when looking in the mirror.

Only prob at the moment is messed up! I don't know if it's related as it only started happening last week. (week 5). Is this normal?

Cheers again for following guys, i appreciate the input :thumbup1:


----------



## Mr.president

is test e any good?


----------



## ba baracuss

Mr.president said:


> is test e any good?


Is the Pope a Catholic?


----------



## WRX333

Mr.president said:


> is test e any good?





ba baracuss said:


> Is the Pope a Catholic?


PMSL.

The months of research i did before starting cycle point towards it & it seems to be working ok so far mate. I'll be more definative in 6 weeks time.

Slept better last night, hopefully returning to normal now.

Quick Q for the experienced guys, if i jab on a sunday & then train hard, have sex & 4 knuckle shuffle all week does this mean my test level will be running low by the end of the week??? I know enanthate is slow acting but im just curious as my constant trouser tent seems to subside slightly towards the end of the week!

Cheers all

Marc


----------



## hackskii

WRX333 said:


> Quick Q for the experienced guys, if i jab on a sunday & then train hard, have sex & 4 knuckle shuffle all week does this mean my test level will be running low by the end of the week??? I know enanthate is slow acting but im just curious as my constant trouser tent seems to subside slightly towards the end of the week!
> 
> Cheers all
> 
> Marc


Well, sex and or tossing one off wont affect anything other than your satisfaction going on...lol

If the shot was 100mg a week of enanthate then yes, anything over 200mg a week you will still be well above normal base values.

How much were you shooting?


----------



## WRX333

cheers again hacks. lol

Im doing 500mg ew so well over base. Although way above normal, will it decrease as th week goes on? eg- will it be any higher this day after the jab than 6 days after?

Excuse my ignorance mate, im still learning.


----------



## hackskii

Well, I am not that good with math, but 500mg a week might take up to 3 weeks to clear and perhaps longer, as the gear ramps up you are then onto another shot.

You can take two shots a week but this will only make blood levels more stable but probably will have no impact on anthing other than convience.

I always shoot all same day and I do about 400mg enanthate a week, I can feel it pretty good day 3 after shot.


----------



## Guest

Hello bro...for sleep check out melatonin, can get or used to be able to get on ebay. One tablet of it is too much as I feel groggy the next day, I take half a tab when I cant sleep and its really good, within 30mins everytime I am out like a light.

Diet seems like your eating a fair amount bro, not seeing much EFA's unless your putting in a few fish oil caps in?9.30 meal needs a tad more protein imo, a couple of eggs if you can manage it? other than that looks good mate! U going to the expo?


----------



## WRX333

I take glucosamine, cod liver oil & multi vitamins, 3 caps of each ed.

I'll try & add more protein early in the day. Had good gains this week, just got in from gym & done 140kg flat bench so im over the moon. Im 18st 4lb now so gained 16-17lb so far (obviously some water/fat) but im feeling good alround & i slept like a baby last night:thumbup1:


----------



## Guest

Good man, 3 plate bench is good going bro..gains coming well so keep doing what your doing!


----------



## BigDom86

are you using any anti-estrogens like adex incase of gyno?


----------



## WRX333

BigDom86 said:


> are you using any anti-estrogens like adex incase of gyno?


No mate, considered it before starting but opted not to. I suppose i should have them hand incase but i have a reliable source should they be needed.

Are you any closer to making the big decision mate?


----------



## BigDom86

cool how many weeks in are you now? also where do you jab?

i was a 50/50 last month. one of my training partner is on it and has been blast/cruising for last 5 years or so lol so he wants me to make it a 70/30 which it is now  just getting to know everything before i start. the only thing that is ****ting me up a bit is the thought of abcesses :<


----------



## WRX333

Im on week 7 of 12 now, had my 7th jab yesterday.

I was the same as you before hand, really tempted but also wary!

I was 50/50 probably 2 months before jabbing & then spent those two months doing research upon research. The more research you do the more comfortable you will get with the idea. As i said on your abcess post after the first 3 or 4 jabs it won't even cross your mind mate, just follow the guidelines set out on here. Jab wise im quite lucky as my GF does mine for me. I do alternate glutes every sunday with the full 500mg of test in one go.

Anything at all you want to know just ask mate & ill help if i can.

Im off to train legs now, back on later on:thumbup1:

Cheers

Marc


----------



## WRX333

8th jab yesterday guys, had a beltin chest / arm work out on sat but have had the last 2 days off. Goin all out for the last 4 weeks, will add 8 week progress pics @ the end of the week. :thumbup1:


----------



## LNH

lookin like quite good progress from the pics mate, :rockon:

you say your doin 500 mg per shot, is that like 250 mg per ml so 2 ml shot or 1 half ml shot with whatever mg active test per ml ?


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## KINGKONG24

looking 4ward to seeing your progress pics mate.

Have you had any new PBs lately?


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## WRX333

Cheers guys.

LNH - Im doing 500mg pw @ 250mg per ml, so 2ml shots every sunday mate.

KK24 - Not set any new PB's over the last week. But they were coming thick & fast previous to that. Ive since been working hard within the set range & making sure i really work every muscle hard.

PBs at the moment:- Bench press 140kg 1rm or 130kg x 4, Squat 170kg x 4, Deadlift 170kg x 4, DB shoulder press 40kg x 10.

Gonna really push on for the rest of cycle now & try to set new highs every session & also eat even more than the mass amount i have been eating.


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## BigDom86

you got any itches etc yet ie signs of gyno? if/when i do my 1st cycle im not sure whether ill run adex (if i can get it) or just leave it out.


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## WRX333

No signs of gyno yet mate. (touch wood).

Only unwanted side ive had is a bit acne/spots around my upper back/neck. Its not major but i usually don't get spots at all.

GF said to me yesterday she's suprised i have'nt turn in to a d*ckhead. lol

I have a sort temper anyway so thought the cycle would have increased my anger (roid rage). If anything, id say im more calm/reserved & just majorly focused on training, eating etc...


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## pastanchicken

Glad it's going well mate :thumbup1:

Get my tbol today, so should be starting my first cycle in a couple of weeks


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## WRX333

Cheers mate.

Good to hear, good luck with it & make sure you start a cycle log:thumbup1:


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## KINGKONG24

Wicked mate, so lifting heavy:thumb:

What were your pbs pre cycle.

Thinking about doing my first black widow test 400 cycle in a couple of weeks.

Hopefully will be pushing these sort of weights.

Re: Adex....... seems f****** expensive, what else can be used in its place?


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## WRX333

pre cycle, all my main lifts were 120kg inc bench (1rm) /squat/ D.L. so definately a big improvement but im hoping for more. I also want more size wise. Ive gain approx 16lb so far but can't really see major differences in the mirror. My gf & few mates have said im much bigger but i can't see it yet. Thing ive got that body thingy what ever its called. Never happy!


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## KINGKONG24

WRX333 said:


> pre cycle, all my main lifts were 120kg inc bench (1rm) /squat/ D.L. so definately a big improvement but im hoping for more. I also want more size wise. Ive gain approx 16lb so far but can't really see major differences in the mirror. My gf & few mates have said im much bigger but i can't see it yet. Thing ive got that body thingy what ever its called. Never happy!


 120k is a good bench mate pre cycle.

Thats cos you see yourself every day, you must be able to see a big difference in progress pics.

That reminds me when you postin the next lot?

did you take measurements from the start?

That is something i plan to do when i eventually post a journal.

Measurements rather than weight.

Im adding you as a contact if thats cool, as have noticed i got no friends on here lol.....

Top thread


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## BigDom86

i want some update pics otherwise im unsubscribing


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## KINGKONG24

BigDom86 said:


> i want some update pics otherwise im unsubscribing


lol:lol:


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## WRX333

:lol: :laugh: :lol:

Next update pics comin soon guys.

This Fri/Sat is the end of week 8 for me so i'll get some pics up then.

It'll be interesting to see the difference if any for me too, as i can't see it in the mirror.


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## WRX333

Decided to drop the winny orals from weeks 12-14 of my cycle as my current BF is 13-14% & i don't feel i will get maximum benifits of it.

Im planning on cutting away as much BF as possible post cycle so would be better of using it next time round.

Im unsure weather to add dbol now for next 4 weeks for possible extra gains & mass?

Anyone?


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## WRX333

Any thoughts or opinions on added the Dbol to end of cycle?


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## pastanchicken

Sorry mate, absolute gear newbie 

Where do you train?


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## WRX333

I was at whalley range VIDA but ive recently moved to cosmos in sale.

What above you mate?


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## pastanchicken

Oh right, I train in Whitefield at the moment at a Total Fitness, it's [email protected], so will be binning it off when my membership runs outs.

Bloke in the gym the other night looked a lot like you, thought I'd best check before I said hi to him!


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## WRX333

Got a swelling in my left a$$ cheek around last weeks injection site. Noticed just after pinning but have had similar before so thought nothing of it only this time its still there after a week. No pain at all, not hot, not itching. How long can this last?

:thumb:


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## stevo99

any pic updates fella??

im running 250mg per week of enanthate started this week and am keen to see your progress

keep up the good work


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## volatileacid

KINGKONG24 said:


> 120k is a good bench mate pre cycle.


You did notice that WRX stated that was a one-rep max right?


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## KINGKONG24

volatileacid said:


> You did notice that WRX stated that was a one-rep max right?


 Not sure what your point is mate?

What is your 1rm?

Are you natty?


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## maxi

good luck you will be huge


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## WRX333

Nice one guys. Much appreciate all the feed back:thumbup1:

Took update pics this weekend. will stick them on tonight when i get home.

Cheers

Marc


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## volatileacid

WRX333 said:


> Nice one guys. Much appreciate all the feed back:thumbup1:
> 
> Took update pics this weekend. will stick them on tonight when i get home.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Marc


Looking forward to the pics bro!


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## Jungle

Just found this thread, i've read it from the very beginning, its been a good read. Hope alls going well WRX. Oh and that body thingy/word you was looking for in previous posts is body dismorphia. I think most people that train get it!...give yourself a new rule...only allowed to look in mirrors on the 1st of every month!!


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## WRX333

Not a bad idea jungle, might give it a go:thumbup1:

Not the best pics to compare as the last ones were half pumped

(1/2 hour after gym) these are early morning (no pump) but you get the general idea of progress or lack of!

I feel looks wise as if my back is coming along far more than my chest/shoulders.

I'll get some more pics up this week after a good session.

Cheers

Marc


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## EDG301

Jungle said:


> .only allowed to look in mirrors on the 1st of every month!!


Now, thats not going to happen is it...... :lol: i think we all struggle with once every hour... :laugh:

Good journal wrx, hope its all going well.


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## Ollie B

looking good bro keep it up


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## 71081

good log pal. keep it up


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## Willie

Back's looking impressive mate.


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## WRX333

Cheers guys:thumbup1:

last couple of jabs have left my a$$ swollen. Not hot, red or itchy, just hard golf ball size-ish lumps. last one lasted a week! Can't figure out whats causing it as im not doing anything differently when jabbing & ive had no probs for the previous 5 weeks. Any ideas?


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## Sir_Winstrol

WRX333 said:


> Decided to drop the winny orals from weeks 12-14 of my cycle as my current BF is 13-14% & i don't feel i will get maximum benifits of it.
> 
> *Im planning on cutting away as much BF as possible post cycle* so would be better of using it next time round.
> 
> Im unsure weather to add dbol now for next 4 weeks for possible extra gains & mass?
> 
> Anyone?


Looking good mate, keep up the good work :thumbup1:

Wanted to comment on the cutting though, so you are planning to do it immediately after the cycle? In my opinion that is a bad idea, as you are already losing some of the gains after the cycle, going on minus calories would make the situation even worse.


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## EDG301

Sir_Winstrol said:


> Looking good mate, keep up the good work :thumbup1:
> 
> Wanted to comment on the cutting though, so you are planning to do it immediately after the cycle? In my opinion that is a bad idea, as you are already losing some of the gains after the cycle, going on minus calories would make the situation even worse.


Agree about the cutting option not being a good idea. Get pct out of the way, stay on over maintenance cals, then after think about cutting. Btw, looked back at pics and you've made good progress, especially noticed a difference with traps and lats. Keep it up


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## WRX333

Cheers for the tip guys. I did think about this as i have been told i need to train just as hard & eat even more during PCT

Im planning to have 3 months + from the end of PCT before another cycle so plenty of time to cut once im confident ive keep good mass.

Cheers

Marc


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## LNH

can deffo see the gains on chest an delts mate, would be more obvious if you posted the pics side by side.

good progress so far.... :thumbup1:


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## WRX333

.


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## WRX333

.


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## Impreza_Turbo

fantastic gains mate, chest and back alot bigger than pre cycle.


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## volatileacid

Filling out nicely mate. Are you doing any ab-work whilst you're at it?


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## MaKaVeLi

Loads bigger mate, quality gains there:thumbup1:


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## weeman

good stuff mate:thumbup1:


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## Sti_prodrive

volatileacid said:


> Filling out nicely mate. Are you doing any ab-work whilst you're at it?


your training hard mate! Keep it up... 

I second that Q too.. Any work on the abs done ???


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## WRX333

Nice one guys. Appreciated:thumbup1:

Ive not been doing abs work & it obviously showing. lol

Been concentrating on other things with the mentality i will be gaining fat on cycle & need to cut after anyway.

Im gonna start abs again tonight after legs. (now i know its so noticable! lol)


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## kawikid

WRX333 said:


> PRE-CYCLE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4-WEEKS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8-WEEKS


Some good gains there, well done  . I'll be interested to see how much of these gains you keep after the cycle. From what i've been reading that is the hard parrt.

Also, do you jab in the glutes? I've read the other threads about jabbing quads and although it's easier there seem to be some posts saying there is more risk. I've tried practicing the imaginary jabbing the glutes going from info on the spot injections web site but it seems to me it would be very hard to jab, aspirate, and slowly inject. I think i'd be like a kid with a joystick!!! :laugh:


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## WRX333

Cheers mate. I know what you mean about jabbing.

Im lucky as my GF does my glutes for me. If i was jabbing myself i would probably do my quad as it much easier to see whats goin on:thumbup1:


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## WRX333

Good back session today. Set a new PB of 180kg DL 4 good reps.

I always get my back really pumped & feeling strong/tight where as other bodypart i work just as hard or harder & don't feel the same?

Is this just how back is or am wierd? lol.


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## KINGKONG24

So you telling me you cant see the difference?

Specsavers........Go see them, they good peeps!!

lol....good gains make.

Has swelling gone down?

Have you had any sides?

emotions? balls? etc etc.

Thinking about a cycle in a couple of weeks/months....seeing how long i can hold out for


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## WRX333

Swellings almost all gone thanks to some nice a$$ massages from the GF. lol.

Few spots chest & upper back, balls have reacted abit recently & possibly slighty agGression increase. I say possibly because im a c*nt sometimes anyway. lol

Otherwise just great strength increases.

I was going to add an oral to end of cycle to push me that bit further gains wise but my supplier has fallen through for the mo. :crying:


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## WRX333

Good chest pump yesterday. Did'nt try to up 1rm but was more comfortable with big weight.

flat bb bench 100 x 10, 120 x 8, 130 x 4, 140 x 3 (touched up on last rep)

incline 60 x 10, 100 x 8, 100 x 6, 60 x 10,

decline 100 x 10, 100 x 8, 100 x 6,

flies & abs at end of session:thumbup1:


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## BigDom86

good progress


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## KINGKONG24

WRX333 said:


> Swellings almost all gone thanks to some nice a$$ massages from the GF. lol.
> 
> Few spots chest & upper back, balls have reacted abit recently & possibly slighty agGression increase. I say possibly because im a c*nt sometimes anyway. lol
> 
> Otherwise just great strength increases.
> 
> I was going to add an oral to end of cycle to push me that bit further gains wise but my supplier has fallen through for the mo. :crying:





WRX333 said:


> Good chest pump yesterday. Did'nt try to up 1rm but was more comfortable with big weight.
> 
> flat bb bench 100 x 10, 120 x 8, 130 x 4, 140 x 3 (touched up on last rep)
> 
> incline 60 x 10, 100 x 8, 100 x 6, 60 x 10,
> 
> decline 100 x 10, 100 x 8, 100 x 6,
> 
> flies & abs at end of session:thumbup1:


Wicked...... :thumb:

So no sides then really thats good.

How many jabs you got left? 2?

Did you run hcg?


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## KINGKONG24

How you been eating?Kept to diet?


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## Guest

Nice one Marc, great gains bro, can see some good changes, keep doing what your doing!


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## shaftymcnasty21

ya good gains...i was very interested in this log because i wil be runnin a test e and eq.cycle in like a week and finishing off with 50 mgs a day of winstrol(oral) either 3 or 4 weeks out havent decided because orals make me nervous...so keep it goin bro


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## WRX333

Cheers guys.

Yeah, got two jabs left & not running oral end of cycle now due to supplier probs.

Diets been good for the most part but to be honest ive had a few dissappointing 2-3 days here & there. I feel bad for them now as i feel i could have gained even more.

Trying to keep on point now for last few weeks & PCT.

P.S. Did'nt end up using HCG throughout but have it on hand for PCT just incase.


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## volatileacid

WRX333 said:


> P.S. Did'nt end up using HCG throughout but have it on hand for PCT just incase.


Interesting. Not sure I'll be running the HCG throughout either(actually don't think I will!) when I get my act together someday soon!...

Did you make a conscious decision not to run it throughout? Was there any particular reason? For me the worry is desensitisation....


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## KINGKONG24

Im pretty sure desensitisation only occurs when using real high doses.

Small ones throughout should be ok.

Lost.....When you say you have it on hand just in case???

I will be interested in your pct.

You have made some serious gains.

Hacks wrote a great post...think it is a sticky on how to keep gains...worth reading.

This is a great thread keep it up


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## WRX333

Cheers guys.

End up not using throughout after discussions with few guys on here.

Firstly, although extremely unlike at low doses i did'nt want to over use it as ive read an article (i'll try & find) on causing desensitisation through long term use. Although having to use much higher doses if used throughout PCT i feel its much simpler over such a short period & if dosed right i should have no problems. I have HCG & bac water but can't keep in my fridge (at least till i move out june/july). The reason i say incase is ive also had the opinion that it may not be necessay at all cause of the simplicity of my cycle (just test) & the fact its my first cycle i could go without to see my bodies reaction & how badly im shut down.

Ive got my Nolva/Clomid ready & will more than likely be using HCG too but not 100% on the decision yet! I'll be ask doing even more research & asking even more Q's very soon. lol

Cheers Guys


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## GavinOC

good gains especially around the traps and inner chest, and your backs getting wider, keep it up :thumb:


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## prebbz

fair play mate looking good


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## Alve

Alright mate, i know you posted your proposed cycle at the very start of this thread, jus wondering if you'd mind posting what you actually did/doing as i know you ditched a few things due to supply probs etc...im interested as im in wk 3 of the same cycle and hav decided to ditch the hcg and opt for nolva/chlomid pct only


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## jock_071279

I would like to know this too mate, also what weight are you now ?

Cheers

Jock


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## WRX333

Hi guys,

Sorry ive not been on for a while. bad week, last week!

my car aqua planed on the motorway in bad conditions & i crashed at high speed. been ****ing around trying to sort everything since.

Dispite all the options i considered pre cycle i have only run test e 500ml ew up to now. my diet was spot until recently (especially after crash) but getting back on track now. Got my last jab on sunday & then will wait 3 weeks before starting my pct nolva/clomid for 4 weeks. I do have HCG but not sure weather im gonna use it this cycle.

I was 17st 1lb when starting & im now 18st 7. I feel i could have reached 19 but for my dips in calorie intake. Trainings been spot on all along & to be honest if i can stay above 18st after pct i'll be happy.

Anymore Q's please ask.

cheers guys


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## pastanchicken

Sh1t mate that sounds bad.

You come out of it ok?


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## WRX333

Yeah cheers mate.

Did'nt have a scratch or bruise on me. lol.

Its was actually unbelievable. I'll try & get a pic of my car up. Fu*ked!!!


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## pastanchicken

Amazing isn't when you walk away from a smash and the car is totalled but you're ok, done it myself.

Glad you're ok mate :thumbup1:


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## KINGKONG24

Yep, im a memeber of the walked away from a totalled car club too.

We are very lucky...know a few who havent.

So do we have some final progress pics and one of your car?

Good to hear your ok!


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## welshrager

Yours gains look amazing, gj man


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## prebbz

how did pct go mate i have got same stuff


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## cecil_sensation

looking good mate, u got a good figue to start with

cycle looks very good, will be following your progress


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## volatileacid

Hey WRX, just saw your thread on your injury - hope it's coming along well mate. At the very least, it's happened at the end of your cycle right? (edit: I've just seen your cycle has been extended to 15 weeks - sure it was 12 last time I looked... ?) Hope the neck pain subsides soon bro.


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## WRX333

Cheers guys,

Been eatin adequately rather than excessively recently, hence keeping gains rather than gain more mass. Also training 3 times as aposed to 5 times a week (as hard as ever though) due to numerous reasons.

Work commitments, moving house, car crash etc etc.

Start PCT on sun 21st so am uping the calorie intake again.

I'll post some pics of the finished article so to speak, asap.

Thanks again for encouragement & advice guys. I would'nt have been so commited without it.

:thumbup1:


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## Big Boy

i was wondering when you would giv us an update of pct/progress as i have been following this log and learning alot form it some very good advice been thrown around on here by some of the big hitters..

great log to follow............

how are you feeling now noticed any undesirable effects leading up to pct???

would you mind posting up the programe/cycle you actually did if it changed any from the one posted on page 1??

and also what PCT have you got planned up??

sorry for all the questions about to run similar cycle and this log is very intresting.

thanks:beer:


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## EDG301

Hope PCT goes well dude, were u happy with the gains u made?


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## BigDom86

yep how did pct go?


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## wes

Good gains bud.

How was pct?


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## WRX333

Hi guys,

Sorry for lack of response/update. Ive had alot going recently. Still training hard though. I was reasonably happy with my gains if i stay above 18st after pct i'll be over the moon. Lost around 5lb at the mo but i think its mostly water weight. I also seem to have lost abit of my appetite with coming off which isnt helping when i trying to keep weight.

After all the ideas of doing winny or dbol at end of, my source packed in for abit so it was just a test e cycle through (500mg/ew).

My PCT is looking like this Clomid 100/50/50/50 & Nolva 40/20/20/20

im currently on week 2 day. I feel abit funny, hot & short breathed! Not sure if its the PCT or im coming dowm with something as it my first time?

Planning 3 month off before next cycle around sept/oct.

This is the only recent pic i have handy, sorry for the quality.


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## pastanchicken

Looking good mate


----------



## WRX333

Cheers bud, training back tonight! Hard graft in this manchester weather aint it! lol. Humid as f*ck.


----------



## pastanchicken

Too right mate!

Wouldn't mind if the sun came out too, can't be doing with this overcast humid weather though!


----------



## Big Boy

thanks for the update........... bro........... do you think that HCG would make PCT better or are you ok with out it so far??


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## BigDom86

hey wrx looking good mate  down in london its even hotter so stop being a pussy


----------



## pastanchicken

Difference is Dom us Mancs aren't used to it!!


----------



## BigDom86

awwwwwwww. well its hot all day here, and we get some nice thunderstorms at night


----------



## WRX333

Big Boy - I have got HCG but decided not to use it this time round. May run a low dose throughoutcycle next time round. So far been good with out mate. No sides, nuts dropped noticably after test cleared, ive had no wood or sex drive issues. yet

Goin ok so far, fingers crossed it continues that way.

Big Dom - im an office boy believe it or not so being in the office, no air con, 28 degree heats draining me. :whistling: I know excuses excuses


----------



## wes

WRX333 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Sorry for lack of response/update. Ive had alot going recently. Still training hard though. I was reasonably happy with my gains if i stay above 18st after pct i'll be over the moon. Lost around 5lb at the mo but i think its mostly water weight. I also seem to have lost abit of my appetite with coming off which isnt helping when i trying to keep weight.
> 
> After all the ideas of doing winny or dbol at end of, my source packed in for abit so it was just a test e cycle through (500mg/ew).
> 
> My PCT is looking like this Clomid 100/50/50/50 & Nolva 40/20/20/20
> 
> im currently on week 2 day. *I feel abit funny, hot & short breathed!* Not sure if its the PCT or im coming dowm with something as it my first time?
> 
> Planning 3 month off before next cycle around sept/oct.
> 
> This is the only recent pic i have handy, sorry for the quality.


Think that's a noted side from nolva.


----------



## Slindog

This is old buts its a good log to follow.

solid


----------



## AndyTee

Im about to start exact same cycle


----------



## _Perseus_

Just finished reading through all the posts!

Great log bro!

Looking to do pretty much the same!

I know you dropped thee winny, I'm thinking of replacing it with Anavar.

See some big gains from this man, looks good!

I'm at the noob stage now, only ever run a cycle of anavar for cutting.

So I'll be doing a little more research (I've been researching for the past couple months) and hopefully starting in a couple weeks!


----------

