# love handles and insulin sensitivity



## m14rky (Aug 11, 2008)

ive read on here love handles are down to insulin sensitivity is there anything u can do apart from diet and cardio ie avoid certain foods that will spike ur insulin to get rid of this stubborn fat

thanks


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## wjames (Mar 15, 2009)

is there a specific training method that can also help shift them?

(good topic ill be watching this)


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## m14rky (Aug 11, 2008)

im not sure if theres a training method ive read on here love handles r due 2 insulin resistance but i have not read what can be done about it other than diet and loads of cardio.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Keto dieting increases insulin sensitivity.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

m14rky said:


> ive read on here love handles are down to insulin sensitivity is there anything u can do apart from diet and cardio ie avoid certain foods that will spike ur insulin to get rid of this stubborn fat
> 
> thanks


Very nice, most people dont know this about love handles.

Exercise, fish oils, lower GI meals, all will help with insulin resistance.



wjames said:


> is there a specific training method that can also help shift them?
> 
> (good topic ill be watching this)


No, there is no such thing as spot reducing with the exception of lets say GH, and some other injectable things.



B|GJOE said:


> Keto dieting increases insulin sensitivity.


True, so does a diet lower in the GI.


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## m14rky (Aug 11, 2008)

i know ive been reading about love handles as i would love 2 get rid of mine and im sure there r a fair few people on here that would 2 i just dont know how other than diet and cardio


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## bowen86 (Mar 17, 2008)

m14rky i gather thats you i your avatar? dude you dont have any fat!??!!!


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## m14rky (Aug 11, 2008)

yea thats me m8 about 1 year ago but i was about 9 and a half stone i dieted down from being skinny fat shape but had little 2 no muscle mass so i had abs but looked like skeletor so ive been bulking gained 2 stone some mass some fat but most of fat is just in the love handle area



bowen86 said:


> m14rky i gather thats you i your avatar? dude you dont have any fat!??!!!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

It's not all just insulin sensitivity. A lot also depends on your adrenoreceptor distribution. Too many alpha adrenoreceptors and the fat gets stubborn and won't shift, due to epinepherine and norepinepherine not being able to release the FFA's from the adipose.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

And that is the thing.

When I dieted down the love handles were the last thing to go.

In fact they became more pronounced as the fat was lower around the torso with the exception of the love handles.

No doubt men store their fat here, just like women tend to get fatter on their hips and ass....lol

But for the most part yes, white fat is insulin responsible.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

And the only way to get rid of it is through cardio and diet. And like Hackskii said, the stubborn is the last to go, but it WILL go if you get bf down low enough. My lower back is proving to be my biggest problem at the moment.


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

I agree witht he guys above the love handles definitely the hardest to shift for most people.

I dropped down to 147lbs when I was trying to get into boxing a few years ago, was super fit yet still had little love handles to the side of my solid 4 pack.

Getting lean is very hard for me to achieve.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Yes this was brought up in a post yesterday, were tall told me that my love handles were insulin resistance or somthing similar. I have a prety low gi diet as my daughter is diabetic, and we all eat together were possible.

I'm interested in anyway to shift them including gh if you can give more details. That last bit of stubon fat ruins my phisique.


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## All4n (May 30, 2008)

Same with me, fat on lower back/lower abs/love handles last to go. To increase insulin senstivity or to simply put carbs to better use when you consume them:

Low BF%

HIIT

Weight training

Fish oils

Cinnamon

R-ALA

Timed carbs*

*Consume carbs at pwo and ppwo workout only. Perhaps breakfast if you're concentrating on gaining but not essential for cutting imo. Stick to lower GI carb sources besides PWO (but then go easy on the carbs in this shake). Lots of fibrous veg and good amount of healthy fats.

Glutamine works as a carb replacement PWO by the way if wanting to completely avoid simple carbs.


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## m14rky (Aug 11, 2008)

love handles suck i see guys much fatter than me and they dont have them they just have a pot belly in my avi i dont have any love handles but i was skin and bone everywhere else i want that level of bf but 2-3 stone heavier currently 2 stone heavier but a fair bit more bf


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Good posts guys.

Some other supplements that have not been mentioned yet are chromium (helps to regulate blood sugars and is a mineral), fiber.

Now fiber is of great importance, there are two kinds, solable and nonsolable fibers, the solable one is like from pectin from fruits, it helps to lower cholesterol naturally, nonsolable fiber goes through digestion but the calories the body gets from them actually is less than the body is taking to try and digest them.

Non-Solable fiber helps with elimination and to keep the colon clean, and you regular. 

Fiber if added to any food slows down digestion, and thus effects the glycemic load of that meal. So, adding something like vegetable fiber to your diet will help to keep the release of blood sugars low but constant and this will give you more even and stable blood sugar levels.

35 grams of fiber burns about 250 calories, so, you have a double whammy effect here.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

m14rky said:


> love handles suck i see guys much fatter than me and they dont have them they just have a pot belly in my avi i dont have any love handles but i was skin and bone everywhere else i want that level of bf but 2-3 stone heavier currently 2 stone heavier but a fair bit more bf


Hell, you wait till you get into your 50's, you see guys with tits all the time.

At the factory I work at the average age is 53, and no lie, they have love handles but what is worse is they have boobs.

That is sad but most likely this is more to do with estrogen and insulin than insulin alone.

Insulin is your friend (most anabolic hormone there is), but also can be your enemy.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm hoping tall will answer in detai here, he told me to start a thread so he could but you beat me to it.

I'm on a cut, low carb and low gi.

I'm really looking forward to reading talls info on spot reduction, I'm not needle shy...

Is there anything you can do to fix the insulin resistance in the first place rather then manage the symtoms by further dieting.

All info welcome, m14rky hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread, I didn't think I should start one as well on the same subject.

Could the insulin resistance also be the reason I went from being the kind of person that could eat anything and not put on a pound of weight to someone that got fat just looking at food, in the space of about 6 months. I went from a 29'l waist and 9 stone to a 39'' waist and 15 stone in less then 6 months.

I've cut it down a huge amount with diet and training, but I'm a lot stricter then others and still look fatter.


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## m14rky (Aug 11, 2008)

na mate ask away were all after the same answer.9 stone to 15 stone in 6 months wow u got any before and afters



d4ead said:


> I'm hoping tall will answer in detai here, he told me to start a thread so he could but you beat me to it.
> 
> I'm on a cut, low carb and low gi.
> 
> ...


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

insulin insensitivity...erm,i think its related to the truncal obesity/abdominal fat thats an indicator of this and many other links to things such as diabetes etc!!!

sorry for not going into scientific detail...also waist to hip ratio indicates this too!!!

sorry tired and this is all i can muster for now!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Basicly what insulin resistance is the fact that you need more insulin to do the job than that of less insulin.

This is not good.

Controlling insulin helps with growth hormone and everything.

No such thing as spot reduction with the exception of lypo suction, now that removes fat cells...lol


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Is there a fibre supplement you'd reconmed or is it a case of having to eat more veg?

Id go for lipo but the bank manager won't le me..

It was tall that said you can spot reduce fat but gave no hint as to how.

Thanks for all your help, keep going. Is there any gear that could help?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

I am not sure if I agree that love handles would indicate insulin insensitivity. Different people have different fat distributions, and there are some disorders that can can affect distributions.



> insulin insensitivity...erm,I think its related to the truncal obesity/abdominal fat thats an indicator of this and many other links to things such as diabetes etc!!!


Agreed - Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) is associated with insulin insensitivity. It is also associated with disorders of glucocorticoid systems ( over secretion or hypersensitivity). The combination of the two is not only unsightly but not good for one's health either.



> Same with me, fat on lower back/lower abs/love handles last to go. To increase insulin senstivity or to simply put carbs to better use when you consume them:
> 
> Low BF%
> 
> ...


As I was reading through the posts I was thinking of the various things I knew increased sensitivity and this post goes and lists them.

HIIT is excellent for improving insulin sensitivity IMHO (via AMPk), especially when combined with dietary discipline.

I am not sure about the Cinnamon though, as although it seems to increase sensitivity, it does in in a tissue non-specific manner ie( both sensitivity of fat and muscle increases). Although this maybe good in the short term, I believe that the other options would be preferable for the long term (adiponectin).

JMHO,

J


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks josh. Anyone want to put all the things we should take and eat into one post as a list.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nice post Josh, I am glad that some of the minds came together here.

We should invite Tall here too.

This happens to be one of my favorite controversial subjects.

I believe that if one was to keep and or maintain insulin sensitivity that he or she would have a better and more pronounced fat loss.

Excess insulin over time has some terrible conciquence's.

If insulin is high, fat loss stops dead.

Insulin is a storage hormone.

I am one that feels that if insulin is kept in check you will have better and more productive fat loss over the long haul.....

Cant go into detail now, I have had some brew..................lol


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

I know little about it but from bits I've read I wonder if metformin would help with this.

I know it can help with insulin sensitivity issues.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Nice post Josh, I am glad that some of the minds came together here.
> 
> We should invite Tall here too.
> 
> ...


Thanks chap!

I certainly agree with your assertions, and the first of these regarding insulin sensitivity leading to better fatloss is very interesting. There are a number of very significant health problems with insulin insensitivity, and an associated condition of metabolic syndrome (Wikipedia's entry on Metabolic Syndrome if anyone is interested).

Thinking of metabolic syndrome reminded me of another thing to avoid when it comes to insulin sensitivity - HFCS or High Fructose Corn Syrup, which IMO (and that of many diabeties researchers) is to carbs, what trans fats are to fats. I would try to avoid this stuff like the plauge.

Many diabetics report fat loss when they get their insulin use (exogenous insulin) sorted, which is counter intuitive considering that insulin is a storage hormone as you said. This would back up what you are saying regarding better fat loss when the body is not insulin insensitive.

I mentioned adiponectin [Wikipedia entry] which is a peptide secreted by bodyfat. As you get leaner your bodyfat tends to release more adiponectin, and as you get fatter you tend to release less. Adiponectin strongly reduces insulin insensitivity, positively affects catabolic partioning ie( you tend to burn more fat), and your blood vessles work better (increase springiness or vasoreactivity). It has a number of similarities with AMPk activation (a main way through which the positive effects of HIIT works) both in the effect seen (insulin sensitivity, loosing weight, more springy blood vessles, etc) and in the biological mechanisms (adiponectin receptors and AMPk have been found to have a common downstream target).

Personally I have thought for a long time that adiponectin could be one of the next big things in human enhancement technologies / performance enhancing drugs, however there are potentially some very serious health concerns when you wack a pile of adiponectin into an animal. If it's receptors becomes insensitive to adiponectin there is a serious risk of heart failure (Myocardial infarction). Anyhow, adiponectin is a very exciting and dynamic area of research IMHO.

J


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

All4n said:


> Low BF%
> 
> HIIT
> 
> ...


Chromium Picolinate and Vanadyl Sulphate can go on that list too.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

High Fructose Corn Syrup is used in almost everything here in the States.

It is a bad thing for sure. Its good to read the labels. Very common in juice here.

Same as the hydrogenated oils in peanut butter (why would they do that?).

Adiponectin, is this something you can supplement to force the body to not hold onto fats?

I think there is a pill called glucophage(sp) that is supposed to help with insulin resistance rigth?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

hackskii said:


> High Fructose Corn Syrup is used in almost everything here in the States.
> 
> It is a bad thing for sure. Its good to read the labels. Very common in juice here.
> 
> ...


*Transfats/HFCS*

In the UK public opinion is gradually increasing wrt trans fats / hydrogenated oils, and the supermarkets have started to respond. There is still a bit of a problem with too much labelling freedom when it comes to HFCS IMHO, though, but I imagine that it will go the same way.

*Adiponectin*

Adiponectin is used as a marker in humans, but in the lab the synthetic peptide is available for research, and has been pumped into animal models in many a study, and when done so, basically reverses many of the components of metabolic syndrome, and results in better insulin sensitivity, greater rate of fat burning, increased gluconeogenesis, and improved blood vessle health, however as I mentioned if an animal becomes insensitive to adiponectin there are potentially major problems. Whether administering adiponectin to humans would result in insensitivity, and what dosing protocol would be useful, would be anyones guess. One thing I do know however is that it has very powerful and positive effects. I imagine within a few years synthetic adiponectin will have crept into use in bodybuilding, and in some form of human trials for people with metabolic syndrome.

*Glucophage/Metformin*

Glucophage seems to work through a different, however uncertain mechanism. I am running this at the moment (3x500mg.d-1), with positive partioning effects.

As an aside, one very interesting thing regarding glucophage/metformin is that the incidence of many cancers seem to be reduced in a similar manner to adoping a low glucose diet. It seems that the mechanism here relates to the lack of glucose which many tumours thrive on.

J


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I know other guys running Glucophage/Metformin and they seem to be getting good results. They may be running slin PWO too.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

would taking slin make your insulin resistance worse?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Some feel it may, and some feel it wont.

I know a guy that feels that type II diabetese is just the pancreas giving out from burnout and this is why insulin cant be kept under control. Too high for too long and it just gives out.

So, he suggested that insulin actually keeps the pancreas from working too hard.

But then again, everything I read about insulin resistance is too much insulin over a long period of time, it doesnt happen overnight.

But I honestly cant answer that question, many feel that it would create an enviroment for dependance on exogenous insulin, but others that take insulin suggest that is BS.

Sorry, but that question is one I can not honestly answer.

Maybe someone else can chime in and as a group get some mileage on this one.

Josh?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

hackskii said:


> I know other guys running Glucophage/Metformin and they seem to be getting good results. They may be running slin PWO too.


 :innocent: Oh yes - I forget to mention the slin with the metformin :blush: .



d4ead said:


> would taking slin make your insulin resistance worse?


Potentially yes, if one has insulin insensitivity issues, although it depends on a number of factors. As mentioned earlier:



> Many diabetics report fat loss when they get their insulin use (exogenous insulin) sorted, which is counter intuitive considering that insulin is a storage hormone as you said. This would back up what you are saying regarding better fat loss when the body is not insulin insensitive.


J


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

i was planning a cycle on insulin in November maybe i should give it a miss.


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## boy_wonder (Jun 6, 2009)

hackskii said:


> Very nice, most people dont know this about love handles.
> 
> Exercise, fish oils, lower GI meals, all will help with insulin resistance.
> 
> ...


I totally agree, so why does Tall say on other thread that you CAN spot reduce?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

boy_wonder said:


> I totally agree, so why does Tall say on other thread that you CAN spot reduce?


I have not seen his posts otherwise I might have called BS.

I mean lets just look at the logically.

You have no say where the weight goes with the exception of muscular hypertrophy, so what makes you think that lets say doing a million situps would reduce the fat in only the area worked?

Now, I know there are drugs than can target spot reduction HELOS, GH, perhaps even Frag GH, and some other drug I remember a long time ago targeting the fat cells them selves, but spot reduction does not work.

Now if he knows something I dont then by all means I am all open for it.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

Poliquin's biosignature modulation endorses the philosophy that love handles are a sign of poor insulin sensitivity.

I am currently 5 weeks through a 12 week biosignature course. Do some research on it, its very interesting the results are great and I have gone from doing loads of cardio to none!! So far so good!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

maccer said:


> Poliquin's biosignature modulation endorses the philosophy that love handles are a sign of poor insulin sensitivity.
> 
> I am currently 5 weeks through a 12 week biosignature course. Do some research on it, its very interesting the results are great and I have gone from doing loads of cardio to none!! So far so good!!


That is interesting, but makes sense.

I lost tons of bodyfat with diet and resistance training, I didnt need cardio, when I did do cardio I lost too much weight in a week.

I have always said cardio was not necessary.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Some feel it may, and some feel it wont.
> 
> I know a guy that feels that type II diabetese is just the pancreas giving out from burnout and this is why insulin cant be kept under control. Too high for too long and it just gives out.
> 
> ...


I am guessing here, but I think that insulin in people with type II, helps them regain control of their blood sugar, hence the improvements in their composition.

I agree that insulin resistance tends to come over time rather than overnight. I also think that it is more to do with an excess of glucose and fat in the diet which has to be cleared from the blood.

I do not think that moderate levels of insulin (exogenous) would be a problem in bodybuilders, mainly because they have a clean diet, exercise and they regularly empty their energy reserves ( via HIIT or weight training) which has a strong effect at preventing metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. I would not like to see insulin use in people with poor dietary control and no exercise who are using it to put on some mass however, as I think there could be a problem with insulin resistance. I do not think that dependence would result, as AFAIK there are no major negative feedback mechanism to the pancreas (although there are some paracrine signalling between alpha and beta cells, but I am uncertain as to the the effect of this signalling on long term insulin use ).



> I have not seen his posts otherwise I might have called BS.
> 
> I mean lets just look at the logically.
> 
> ...


I have been quite fearful of chiming in on this topic, as I know the majority of the evidence (but not all) does not support spot reduction, however as I mentioned when the topic came up in the hips thread and in my journal, I have some niggling concerns with writing off spot reduction totally. I do believe that the best way to get fat off with cardio is by utilising the big muscle groups and maximise O2 turnover.



> I have always said cardio was not necessary.


I think this maybe true for some people, but cardio is essential for others. Different people work in different ways.

J


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

One thing more on the bellyfat issue is this.

More bellyfat equals more aromatse activity.

More aromatase activity equats to more estrogen.

More estrogen can lower testosterone levels due to the fact that estrogen is converted from testosterone via way of aromitization.

So, the only mechanism for lowering estrogen is to lower testosterone (estrogen is approx 200 times as supressive as testosterone).

This in itself would suggest more estrogen could hinder the nice effects of blood glucose and testosterone.

So, yah, with that said, spot reduction may exist.

But in the context of spot reduction I think people think that doing more situps would trim the belly and this just isnt so.

So, when I hear of spot reduction it is something someone is doing to reduce a certain area through training, and I dont see that.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

The point of not doing cardio for me was to reduce cortisol which therefore reduces belly fat (well thats the theory). Previously I was doing cardio and weights now just weights and low carb diet and my belly has gone from a 26mm reading to a 16mm reading in under 5 weeks. I am sure soon I will have to add in cardio when I get to say 10mm....we shall see


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I have not seen his posts otherwise I might have called BS.
> 
> I mean lets just look at the logically.
> 
> ...


Not read the full thread (Hi Tall fans  )

It's all to do with the root cause which can be found in your hormonal profile. Poliquin calls it Biosignature Modulation.

It's not his idea mind you. But neither is it my idea. 

To the OP - I'm sorry I've not had time to respond properly.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Nice post Josh, I am glad that some of the minds came together here.
> 
> We should invite Tall here too.
> 
> ...


What if we switch our thoughts on Insulin slightly from it being a storage hormone, to a cell volumising hormone, or even a cell volumising switch.

It's almost the same thing I know...

But with some subtle differences.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

so tall, hacksii, josh this is interesting what would you guys recommend to do then to help with this.

i think something like ALA or metformin may be of use what do you guys think?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Tall said:


> Not read the full thread (Hi Tall fans  )
> 
> It's all to do with the root cause which can be found in your hormonal profile. Poliquin calls it Biosignature Modulation.
> 
> ...


For the most part I totally agree, it is just when someone says spot reduce I think they mean some form of training to get rid of specific fat that they want rid of.

I would actually love to read some of his stuff, he has some great things to say.

Barry Sears has alot to say about insulin and fat deposit, he was the author of the Zone books, I have read two of them.

Insulin resistance is not something to take lightly, due to it being a pre-requisite for type II diabetese.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

hilly2008 said:


> so tall, hacksii, josh this is interesting what would you guys recommend to do then to help with this.
> 
> i think something like ALA or metformin may be of use what do you guys think?


Yes those would be ok, but I would suggest something much simpler, like a lower glycemic index diet with more fiber.

Fish oils and olive oil, along with nuts and seeds, and also exercise.

I dont have much information on ALA, but if you kept the meals lower GI, more fiber, good oils in the diet and exercise, you are a mile ahead of the game.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

hilly2008 said:


> so tall, hacksii, josh this is interesting what would you guys recommend to do then to help with this.
> 
> i think something like ALA or metformin may be of use what do you guys think?


Can someone dig out the 6 or so "original" articles on BioSig?

The areas they will mention are:

Tricep

Chest

Obliques

Stomach

Calf


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## bowen86 (Mar 17, 2008)

bodybuilders are very clever. im not supprised just somethings mentioned here are very interesting and clever.

confused the fudge outta me though...........ha


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Yes those would be ok, but I would suggest something much simpler, like a lower glycemic index diet with more fiber.
> 
> Fish oils and olive oil, along with nuts and seeds, and also exercise.
> 
> I dont have much information on ALA, but if you kept the meals lower GI, more fiber, good oils in the diet and exercise, you are a mile ahead of the game.


already on that hacks my carb sources 6 days a week are oats/wholemeal pasta/basmati rice/couscous.

malto pwo only. occasionaly low fat probiotic yogurt


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

That will be fine hilly, if you are lean that is another good thing.

But for the record here, I lost 4" on my waist with GH before and no noticible weight loss.

But, after I got off the gH (out of money), it came back....lol

I am considering getting that frag GH.

All the fat burning qualities of GH but a fraction of the cost.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

As regards spot reducing, how about topical yohimbine creams?

Has anyone tried these or know much about them? I have read the explanations of how they work but it means little to me.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

hacksi i have also been looking into the gh frags as well and may purchase some in september to use during my bulk to keep bf down


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Just 1 bit of advise on ALA. It is bloody expensive, if you intend to use long term get a capping kit, some capsules, a buy 100g of powder from MP, you'll save a bomb!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Stuff like TargeX is another topical cream that uses licorice to curb cortisol.

Cortisol blockers will help target more belly fat as well, something like

First Level (reported most strongest):

Phosphatidylserine - aka PS (*)

Holy Basil Extract

Magnolia Bark Extract (main ingredient in Relora)

Epimedium Extract

Rhodiola Rosea Extract

Ashwagandha Extract

There are some injectables like HELOS(sp), and another one that is said to kind of melt bodyfat in the target area of injection.

I have never really used them myself, as the trageX can elivate blood pressure from the licorice and that is something I dont need.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

Tall said:


> Can someone dig out the 6 or so "original" articles on BioSig?
> 
> The areas they will mention are:
> 
> ...


Sub Scap

Suprilliac

Calf

knee

Hams

Quads

Mid-auxillary

I recommend anyone to do this, my g/f is doing it now as is my sister.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

The whole thing with the supplements is that they are an adjunct to the diet. When you get the diet right cortisol and insulin management will start to improve on their own. The supplements I take at present are

40g fish oil a day

Zinc breakfast and lunch

Magnesium dinner and bed

HCL - my stomach was producing really no acid so for last two weeks be dosing the top end of this!

Diet low carb, some berries as a snack, have a cheat for over half a day that includes alcohol


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## DEJ (Mar 11, 2007)

very very intersting thread. thought this website would be of use for some people who dont under G.I foods

http://www.the-gi-diet.org/lowgifoods/

jonesy


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Gym Bunny posted an interesting Cinnamon post yesterday which could be relevant to this thread.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/62980-cinnamon-improves-insulin-sensitivity.html


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