# Intermittent Fasting Paleo Hybrid



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Low carb is the perfect dieting system for me. I have been doing keto for 5+ months now and it's great, but I have wanted to try Intermittent Fasting after first reading through Martin Berkan's articles. I want to adapt intermittent fasting to suit the paleo philosophy and I'd like your input.

*
Sample routine:*

*10:30 -* 10g BCAA

*11:00 -* High volume resistance training

*12:30 -* 3x scoop whey isolate, banana

*15:00 -* Eating the following foods when hungry:

*21:00 -* [chicken, carrots, parsnips, brussels][whey isolate][cashews][peanut butter][keto/paleo friendly foods]

*21:00 -* Fast

Keto carbs should be kept under 30g a day, where as paleo should be under 150g but more than 30g. This doesn't come from direct carb sources, but as a by-product of eating sugary vegetables and fruits.

Are there any recommendations you have? Improvements or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

This part of the forum is dead so it's time to 'mentionwhore': @dtlv @Bashy @bayman @Bull Terrier @badly_dubbed @Doink @JasonDB @lewishart @m118 @Fatstuff @Katy @hackskii @Pscarb @anyoldbastardwhocanhelpme

Please feel free to mention any of the diet experts I'm not aware of.


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## badly_dubbed (Nov 21, 2011)

I like keeping back carbs till post workout, I find that controlling insulin this way works best for me, in terms of leaning out and maintaining strength.

protein/fats - training - protein/carbs (and fats if you like, limiting them a little if fat loss is key)

ive lost a further 3kg in 29days doing it this way...after a huge stall for a long time.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

I'm actually doing Paleo and the 5:2 diet but I'm not calculating my macros...only my daily calorie intake so not sure if I'd be of much use to you. I just try to eat as wide a variety of foods as possible (loads of veggies) within the Paleo diet to ensure I get my micros. And I don't go overboard on the fruits.


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## badly_dubbed (Nov 21, 2011)

Katy said:


> I'm actually doing Paleo and the 5:2 diet but I'm not calculating my macros...only my daily calorie intake so not sure if I'd be of much use to you. I just try to eat as wide a variety of foods as possible (loads of veggies) within the Paleo diet to ensure I get my micros. And I don't go overboard on the fruits.


I dont think theres a need to track macros or calories on paleo-type frameworks, imo its the most natural way for a human to eat, the rest of the small stuff just tends to take care of itself. eat whole single ingredient foods, get rid of wheat,gluten,dairy (bar butter) and other common inflammatory foods and just forget about the micro-managing 

its pretty simple stuff


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

badly_dubbed said:


> I dont think theres a need to track macros or calories on paleo-type frameworks, imo its the most natural way for a human to eat, the rest of the small stuff just tends to take care of itself. eat whole single ingredient foods, get rid of wheat,gluten,dairy (bar butter) and other common inflammatory foods and just forget about the micro-managing
> 
> its pretty simple stuff


That's sort of my view, although I don't go overboard on fruits. With Paleo the sugar highs and lows aren't there so I don't crave as much and so don't eat as much


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## badly_dubbed (Nov 21, 2011)

fruit imo should be avoided completely for fat loss. 

a great little comment from @Learney on this:

Phil Learney - "It has little to no insulin response Tom. Fructose is also the only sugars that can be stored as fat without Insulin so irrelevant really. As insulin is anabolic and favourable to control of it it then gives another reason why fruit use in almost all compositional cases needs to considered carefully. Having carbs without an insulin response isn't great and ones that have a high likelihood of being stored as fat is a unnecessary risk IMO".

"Berries are not an exception just better due to fibre and Anti ox content. Just a trade off really".

" ust had an interesting question on my share of this thread regarding avoiding fructose due to the insulin spike. Foods containing fructose generally have little to no insulin response due to the aforementioned mechanisms. Fructose is also the only sugars that can be stored as fat without Insulin so irrelevant really. As insulin is anabolic and favourable to control of it it then gives another reason why fruit use in almost all compositional cases needs to considered carefully. Having carbs without an insulin response isn't great and ones that have a high likelihood of being stored as fat is a unnecessary risk IMO.

It is also worth considering that after a meal has been absorbed and utilised the stabilisation of blood glucose is done using liver glycogen. Following fasting is probably the only time fruit would be useful and for those of you that eat frequently it isn't a concern as you're constantly keeping blood glucose stable and never tapping into Liver glycogen stores.

I understand what you're saying Matt but I have always banked on the biggest motivator for keeping people away from synthetic foods or junk in general are RESULTS and this is what the primary note of the thread was about. NOT the general population and general guidelines.

The second we, as an industry start believing we are dealing with the 'general population' I honestly think this is when we start to fail. We allow leniency and compromise which loses critical results the time at which a clients motivation is at it's HIGHEST! Think about it RESULTS are a bigger motivator than ANYTHING ELSE!"


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

badly_dubbed said:


> fruit imo should be avoided completely for fat loss.


I agree, and I think when you get to a body composition you're happy with then they can be reintroduced. My understanding for the role of fruit for the caveman was to eat the fruit at the end of the summer seasons to increase body fat stores to keep them warmer in the winter.

Mark's Daily Apple fruit recommendations: The Best Low-Carb Fruits (and the Worst)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, the Atkins type diet still used berries, and they are super low in the GI, I dont buy that if there is a low insulin spike it will store as fat, I dont see how one could suggest this.

Hell, fats have a low response on insulin, and that is hard to store as fat.

Apples too.

I dont like the idea of a bunch of shakes for weight loss, some protein powders do spike insulin.

Even the Zone diet advocates berries and apples.

I noticed on a keto diet that I lost 1" on my waist for every 4 to 5 pounds, zone diet was 5 to 6 pounds for every inch.

But keto diets stall due to cortisol and sluggish thyroid.

Zone diet seemed to work the best for the longer dieting, keto for the rapid weight loss.

When we are talking about an apple, that is only like 22 grams of carbs anyway, and a granny smith (green apple) has the lowest GI of all apples.

I see no problem with the apple as it has a solable fiber called pectin, and the fiber in it slows digestion.

What is wrong with stick butter anyway?

I see no need to remove butter from the diet it actually has something in it called butyrate which is a known anti-cancer agent.


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## badly_dubbed (Nov 21, 2011)

nothing! butter is immense! and should be eaten everyday IMO!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Well, the Atkins type diet still used berries, and they are super low in the GI, I dont buy that if there is a low insulin spike it will store as fat, I dont see how one could suggest this.
> 
> Hell, fats have a low response on insulin, and that is hard to store as fat.
> 
> ...


I know I could Google it but do you have a recommended link to the zone diet as I'd like to see what kind of foods are eaten and diet structure?

I feel the Intermittent Fasting aspect has been overlooked so if I could get some feedback on that it would be appreciated.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I certainly don't feel there is any need to go keto with an IF approach - @defdaz explained the reason why so very well in another thread on the same topic:



defdaz said:


> I guess you could do IF and keto together if you really want to but it kinda defeats the whole point.
> 
> With IF the idea is to get the best of both worlds... in the fasting window insulin is low and thus fat burning is ramped up progressively through the fast. This mimicks the effect of keto, but without the change of substrate to ketones - glucose is still abundant in the liver and muscles, you just aren't ingesting any so no insulin to affect fat burning. But in your eating window you refeed, restock the glycogen stores, get tons of gorgeous anabolic insulin released and basically set your body revving for the evening and setting you up again nicely for the next day.
> 
> ...


As for paleo, I agree that if your food choices are consistently paleo then there is no need to count macros.

In respect of fruit, I don't think there is any need to worry personally unless you are talking about an insane amount. It true that fructose can be converted to triglycerides and then stored as fat without insulin, but it's a very conditional thing - in order for that to happen, liver glycogen stores have to already be high (as if not the fructose simply is stored as liver glycogen... and in a kcal deficit, liver glycogen is never high) or the dose of fructose has to be very high (circa 60g+ in a single feeding by one study), and although it varies fruit has an average fructose content of only around 4-6g per 100g of fruit:



This means you'd need to be eating a serious amount of fruit (depending what it is but possibly up to more than a kilo) per session, and regularly, to cause a problem - the danger with fructose comes from artificial sugars (sucrose, HFCS) where you can easily get 20-30g+ fructose in a feeding. A second point with that is that if fruit is bad because of its fructose content, so are vegetables which average at 2-3g per 100g of veg consumed which in the scheme of things isn't different to many common fruits.

Also, concerning fruit, the primary site of fat storage from fructose is not subcutaneous fat but visceral fat. That is indeed a bad thing, no denial at all, but when in a calorie deficit and active, visceral fat is a preferentially oxidised fat during aerobic activity, and even in high sugar (fructose) calorie restricted diets visceral fat rapidly reduces, quicker than subcutaneous fat, demonstrating that this issue is one related specifically to high sugar hypercaloric diets.

Personally I would avoid processed sugars and starches, and also keep away from altered fats and excessive long chain saturated fat which themselves can wreck insulin sensitivity compared to other fats (PUFAs, MUFAs, MCTs), possibly as much as high sugar diets in some populations.

All that said, I would however say that when cutting at seriously low body fat (<8%), when it becomes very difficult to cut further, removing all sugars even natural ones may be worth thinking about... also is a good idea for those with type II diabetes, and obviously fructose should be avoided for those with fructose intolerance, but other than in those conditions am not convinced personally there is any benefit to avoiding natural fructose bearing sugars from unprocessed plant foods.

Anyway I like the combination of paleo style eating with IF, but think that with clean food choices and appropriate intake of total energy you can afford to have a lot of dietary variability without any major exclusions.

Final comment, although I don;t think you want to stress about macros if eating paleo (no need as the micronutrient profile should generally be as good as it gets in a non restrictive paleo diet), the most accurate data currently available suggests that while macros varied quite considerably between paleo populations, the mode average (most common) macro split is estimated from fossil evidence (estimated via mineralization in bones, aminos in hair and nail samples etc) and comparison to modern hunter gathers to be roughly 40/30/30 C/P/F... which is exactly what the zone diet is that hacks mentions.

From my experience cutting ( and lean bulking) when I eat mostly paleo foods to roughly that macro split I seem to have the best of everything - I feel best, find body comp easiest to manipulate, and feel that I perform to my top end in the gym and when out doing my running... if you do want to aim at an IF/paleo hybrid and count macros, this is where I would start.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

rectus said:


> I know I could Google it but do you have a recommended link to the zone diet as I'd like to see what kind of foods are eaten and diet structure?
> 
> I feel the Intermittent Fasting aspect has been overlooked so if I could get some feedback on that it would be appreciated.


Zone diet was designed to maximize performance while keeping down inflammation due to eicasinoids.

What the Zone tries to do is put your body in a place where the Silent Inflammation Profile (SIP) is low.

It has been suggested that the ratio of Arachidonic Acid (AA) to Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) or AA/EPA test is the gold standard for testing for SIP.

Due to the fact that the ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fatty acids is between 1 to 10, to 1 to 25, and not 1/1 to 1/4 ratio, that inflammation is a big problem.

Using macros at a 40/30/30 combination of carbohydrates/proteins/fats, and foods like fish oils, using less processed foods, sugars, etc, this will move the ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 in a better ratio.

The Arachidonic acid is a pro-inflammatory and many probably have this elevated a bit over where it should be.

When on the zone I felt very good, I followed it to the letter, I lost alot of weight yet did not lose any strength, and I really felt like I could do anything.

I was 37 at the time, had a smaller waist than in high school (18 years old), had more muscle and less bodyfat, and was stronger.

Here is a link to their forum, I think I might be on there somewhere same name.: http://www.zonediet.com/forums

The IM thing is pretty solid, it has been written about quite a bit lately.

The idea is pretty damn simple.

Skip a meal or two, this limits your calories, lowers insulin, and in the presence of insulin growth hormone is stopped.

But, when insulin is low, glucagon is high, and in the presence of glucagon Growth hormone is released, in fact there is a Glucagon stimulation test for the diagnosis of GH deficiency in adults.

So, this is a benefit for low insulin, release of GH which would put the body in a nice environment for fat loss, and the loss of calories from the loss of food, all equate to weight loss, but not alot of muscle will be lost unless the fast is over a certain amount of time, I forget how many hours.

So, pretty simple, skip a meal or two, reduction in calories results in weight loss, and how easy is that?

But, for some the fast might not be that easy, hypoglycemia can happen, and some people just do not act right with low blood sugars.

After all the brain is the biggest glucose hog in the body and when that does not get fuel, you can act out easier, or just not have the ability to concentrate, some people get really sweaty with low blood sugars.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Hi Rectus, it looks like the big hitters aka Hackski and dtlv have already given out their valuable advice regarding diet.

One thing which just caught my attention though is another - you speak about Martin Berkan's system and then immediately give a sample day which involves "high volume resistance training". You will be aware that Berkan recommends a very simple training model training 3 times per week on a simple split, with the main bodyparts being worked once per week with minimal exercises and sets. He also isn't big on training the small muscle groups with isolation exercises.

Are you thinking of incorporating his dietary principles into a new regime whilst leaving out the training aspect of the lean gains system?

Why would you want to do high volume training?

I've understood by now that you are essentially a hard gainer (like me I may add), and I strongly feel that guys like us do not benefit from high volume training. Actually the total opposite in my humble opinion.

I'm not 100% convinced about Berhan's training systems because I think that training each body part just once per week is too infrequent, but having said that I wouldn't wish to speak for everybody here seeing as others train like this and have great results.

I'd be more than happy to talk more about what I regard as useful training methods for hard gainers, but I wouldn't want to go outside of the scope of your current post.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dtlv said:


> Anyway I like the combination of paleo style eating with IF, but think that with clean food choices and appropriate intake of total energy you can afford to have a lot of dietary variability without any major exclusions.
> 
> Final comment, although I don;t think you want to stress about macros if eating paleo (no need as the micronutrient profile should generally be as good as it gets in a non restrictive paleo diet), the most accurate data currently available suggests that while macros varied quite considerably between paleo populations, the mode average (most common) macro split is estimated from fossil evidence (estimated via mineralization in bones, aminos in hair and nail samples etc) and comparison to modern hunter gathers to be roughly 40/30/30 C/P/F... which is exactly what the zone diet is that hacks mentions.
> 
> From my experience cutting ( and lean bulking) when I eat mostly paleo foods to roughly that macro split I seem to have the best of everything - I feel best, find body comp easiest to manipulate, and feel that I perform to my top end in the gym and when out doing my running... if you do want to aim at an IF/paleo hybrid and count macros, this is where I would start.


Most excellent. For now, the lack of carbs in my diet has made me weaker but it's not a problem for me as my main focus is fat loss. In the future when my goals have been met I may re-introduce certain carbs but I am unsure which ones as certain ones trigger my IBS. I guess I'd have to figure that out by trialling different carb sources and finding which ones suit.

In regards to the 40/30/30 split, what would our ancestors have eaten to get those carb numbers?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Zone diet was designed to maximize performance while keeping down inflammation due to eicasinoids.
> 
> What the Zone tries to do is put your body in a place where the Silent Inflammation Profile (SIP) is low.
> 
> ...


I had to do some reading on eicosanoids as I wasn't aware of their function. I kind of like being "fat adapted", it's kind of like a status symbol, separates you from the crowd. I might get some t-shirts printed up. Do you have the diet you followed to share? I don't enjoy weighing my food, this is what I love about Palumbo's keto diet, all you have to really do is just follow his diet plan and it'll work. You do make changes to the diet based on your weight, but it's still straight forward.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Hi Rectus, it looks like the big hitters aka Hackski and dtlv have already given out their valuable advice regarding diet.
> 
> One thing which just caught my attention though is another - you speak about Martin Berkan's system and then immediately give a sample day which involves "high volume resistance training". You will be aware that Berkan recommends a very simple training model training 3 times per week on a simple split, with the main bodyparts being worked once per week with minimal exercises and sets. He also isn't big on training the small muscle groups with isolation exercises.
> 
> ...


Actually, I guess I just passed over Berkhan's training recommendations as I didn't think that they were important - I am only interested in the diet. I have done 5x5 training and I loved it, definitely put on size but I wanted to see what higher repetition sarcoplasmic hypertrophy training would do for my muscle size. I still have elements of strength training at the beginning of my sessions (deadlift, pull ups, bench press) but the rest of my session is 5x10. Not a wise choice when you're cutting I know, but as I'm using AAS I am confident I won't lose muscle. I really like high volume training, it means my form can be perfect, I can achieve a full range of motion and just feel every rep because of the control you can give when you're lifting a light weight. It's hard for the ego at first but I worked out that Kai Green curls 13.5kg dumbbells and he's 3x the size of me, I feel better about curling 7kg dumbbells. Why do you not believe that high volume would benefit us then? I would think Berkan's training system is more for maintenance but I could be wrong about that. Don't worry about scope, go nuts.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

rectus said:


> Most excellent. For now, the lack of carbs in my diet has made me weaker but it's not a problem for me as my main focus is fat loss. In the future when my goals have been met I may re-introduce certain carbs but I am unsure which ones as certain ones trigger my IBS. I guess I'd have to figure that out by trialling different carb sources and finding which ones suit.
> 
> In regards to the 40/30/30 split, what would our ancestors have eaten to get those carb numbers?


You have digestive issues with carbs? Good idea to avoid them in high amount then, especially fermentable carbs. Have a google for which foods contain those (can give you links if you like, but you are more than capable of checking yourself), and also fructose intolerance, and see if that matches your symptoms... normally a good place to start with digestive issues in relation to carbs (and lactose intolerance of course).


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

That and adding digestive enzymes can tone all that down.

I also like pro-biotics, but not sure if that is ok with IBS, I cant remember if it is a no no for leaky gut, or IBS, just cant remember.

The zone diet is very simple, eat your macros together in the ratio of 40/30/30

So, small can of albacore tuna is 22 grams, and 1 small apple is 22 grams, toss in some peanuts to get in your fat, or a couple of fish oils and you have a ratio that is pretty close.

Not 40/30/30 but in the end you need to only get close.

Like some oatmeal 27 grams of carbs, and a scoop of whey protein (25) grams protein, and some butter for example for fats.

Or, a potato has 18 grams carbs, 3 grams of protein, no fat.

So, add in 2 slices of canadian bacon (11 grams of protein, 4 grams fat), add 2 fish oil's.

Cals from potato in carbs would be 72, cals from protein 56, cals from fat 54 calories.

These are just examples of how it would be done, it could even be a lazy as something like this.

6 pack of beer, and a steak with the fat on it.

You could even do something for a snack, which he does suggest before bed but very low on calories like some lowfat yogurt, some whey protein, and a small amount of peanuts on top, mix and eat, and it does taste very nice.

He also suggests not waiting over 5 hours to eat, and meals not exceed 500 cals per meal.

This will promote good eicasinoid (chemical hormones) production, give you the amount of protein you need to support lean tissue, and the variety of foods to not allow for deficiencies in your diet.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dtlv said:


> You have digestive issues with carbs? Good idea to avoid them in high amount then, especially fermentable carbs. Have a google for which foods contain those (can give you links if you like, but you are more than capable of checking yourself), and also fructose intolerance, and see if that matches your symptoms... normally a good place to start with digestive issues in relation to carbs (and lactose intolerance of course).


I'll have a browse. I'm also lactose intolerant as well. Suffered from IBS for about 10 years now, just came on all of a sudden and had very unpleasant tests done but they couldn't find the problem. I cut loads of foods out which helped a bit but never cured me. Doing keto is the best thing I've ever done as it's pretty much cured me, amazing. I'm assuming the exclusion of carbs from my diet was the reason. In conclusion: I'm a walking disaster.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

rectus said:


> I'll have a browse. I'm also lactose intolerant as well. Suffered from IBS for about 10 years now, just came on all of a sudden and had very unpleasant tests done but they couldn't find the problem. I cut loads of foods out which helped a bit but never cured me. Doing keto is the best thing I've ever done as it's pretty much cured me, amazing. I'm assuming the exclusion of carbs from my diet was the reason. In conclusion: I'm a walking disaster.


Not a walking disaster, but a clear case of someone who benefits from a low carb lifestyle. Have you tried glutamine for IBS?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dtlv said:


> Not a walking disaster, but a clear case of someone who benefits from a low carb lifestyle. Have you tried glutamine for IBS?


Yes, but I never noticed any difference when supplementing with it. I guess it couldn't overpower the power of the carb. When I have my Sunday carb binge meal I notice some intestinal activity shall we say, but it's not a problem. It's when I consume carbs over a period of time there's a "build up" is the only way I can think to describe it.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

hackskii said:


> That and adding digestive enzymes can tone all that down.
> 
> I also like pro-biotics, but not sure if that is ok with IBS, I cant remember if it is a no no for leaky gut, or IBS, just cant remember.
> 
> ...


Who is this "he?". I like the beer + steak idea hahaha.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Digestive enzymes will help you, here is a breakdown of my favorite digestive enzymes.

notice the different ones that do certain things, this is a very complete blend of digestive enzymes.

*PROTEIN REDUCING ENZYMES*:

Acid Stable Protease - Works in extreme acidic conditions in the digestive process after other proteases have stopped working.

Bromelain - A broad spectrum enzyme that hydrolyzes most soluble proteins.

Papain - A proteolytic enzyme characterized by its ability to hydrolyze large proteins into smaller peptides and amino acids.

Protease - Hydrolyzes protein to peptide and amino acids.

*FIBER REDUCING ENZYMES:*

Hemi-Cellulase - Breaks down the hemicellulose of plant walls.

Cellulase - Hydrolyzes cellulose.

*FAT AND OIL REDUCING ENZYMES:*

Lipase - Breaks down fats and oils.

*STARCH REDUCING ENZYMES:*

Amylase - Frees glucose molecules from the ends of polymers.

Gluco-Amylase - Breaks down sugars and starches.

*SUGAR & DAIRY ENZYMES:*

Lactase - Breaks down the lactose in dairy products into more soluable sugars.

Invertase - Breaks down cane and beet sugars.

Maltase - Breaks down maltose, malt, and grain sugars.

Xylanase - Breaks down the xylan sugars found in most plants. Works particularly well with grains.

Alpha-Galactosidase - Breaks Melibose, Raffinose and Stachyose sugars that are responsible for excess gas in the digestive system.

Gluco-Mannanase - Breaks down the mannan sugars.

Pectinase - Breaks down the pectin in fruits.

I saw a demonstration where a guy put it on top of oats he prepaired, he came back like 20 minutes later and it looked like pudding.

Broke it down right in the bowel.

Now to be fair, there is a bit of bro-science here and have had debates with other sharp guys, but basicly when you eat foods that the enzymes have been destroyed due to processing or heat, your body has to make enzymes to break down the food.

This is done borrowing from your enzyme pool.

But some feel that it is like a bank account, depleting your enzyme pool where they function for many metabolic things, borrowing them to digest food.

Some swear by its healing affects to supply your food with the enzymes they need to break it down, making digestion easier on the body, pulling more nutrients due to better absorption, less gas from putrification, and keeping your enzyme pool strong to do the work on the other things it needs to do.

My wife said she knew the guy that developed the enzymes and he had cancer, she told me he cured himself with the enzymes.

Not sure if I believe that or not, but that is what she told me.

Here is the site: http://www.rgarden.com/maximizer.html

Here is a great article on them: http://www.rgarden.com/50.html


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

rectus said:


> Who is this "he?". I like the beer + steak idea hahaha.


A Dr. Barry Sears, he has done this work for about 15 years or more.

His first book i read 16 years ago, he was hell bent on using gamma-Linolenic acid with his zone diet to improve eicasinoid function, but later abandoned that, but he had his mind set on improving eicasinoid production, and he kind of was on the right track:

Snip from wiki

GLA, the body forms dihomo-?-linolenic acid (DGLA). This is one of the body's three sources of eicosanoids (along with AA and EPA.) DGLA is the precursor of the prostaglandin PGH1, which in turn forms PGE1 and the thromboxane TXA1. PGE1 has a role in regulation of immune system function and is used as the medicine alprostadil. TXA1 modulates the pro-inflammatory properties of the thromboxane TXA2.

Unlike AA and EPA, DGLA cannot yield leukotrienes. However it can inhibit the formation of pro-inflammatory leukotrienes from AA.[7]

Although GLA is an n?6 fatty acid, a type of acid that is, in general, pro-inflammatory, it has anti-inflammatory properties. (See discussion at Essential fatty acid interactions: The paradox of dietary GLA.)

At first he was using GLA from Evening Primrose Oil to promote fat loss in men.

But EPO is expensive so you can change that to borrage oil.

Basically his work was to reduce systemic inflammation by manipulating certain fats, and carbs to create more of an anti-inflammation environment, he later turned his attention to fish oils (another fat), and doing so he opened up what is now the Omega Zone diet.

He sure was hell bent on GLA for some time, but found the fish oils superior to what he was trying to do.

Here is a read on GLA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Linolenic_acid

I have taken EPO before and I noticed it made my heart beat slower.

Fish oils over time also allowed me to have more flow in my urine, suggesting less inflammation of the prostate.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Fair enough Rectus, since you've given me the green light to expound on my views on training, here goes..

I am of the opinion that the more genetically gifted trainees have a far wider variety of training methods which will work, albeit some better than others even for them. You can even see amongst the upper echelon of bodybuilders however that there is still a certain amount of variety even to their training methods what with the blood-and-guts approach of Dorian Yates and the generally higher volume approach of most of the others.

However for the so-called hardgainer the most productive training methods are more limited and pretty much come down to abbreviated routines, with few exercises and some form of intensity cycling. I also believe that training each body part just once per week is too little, hence why I'm not entirely sold on the lean gains training system.

In my view the Starting Strength system is an essentially good system, but for me personally squatting three times a week would be too much. I'm hesitant to use the word "overtraining" since I'm sure that people will jump in and say that overtraining is something different or else that it doesn't exist. But what I'll say is that I experience a regression in strength when not having regular deloads and/or pushing too hard or too often.

Here is my current system:

Workout A

Bench press (warm-up sets + 2 work sets around 5-8 reps)

Squats (warm-up sets + 2 work sets around 15-20 reps)

Bent-over rows (warm-up sets + 2 work sets around 6-10 reps)

Workout B

Deadlift (warm-up sets + 1 work set around 10-15 reps)

Seated shoulder press (warm-up sets + 2 work sets around 10-15 reps)

Lying tricep extensions (warm-up sets + 2 work sets around 10-15 reps)

I train on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and alternate workouts A and B.

I further alternate workouts A and B by doing them either with work sets to positive failure (maybe with a forced rep at the end or else a rest-pause) or else going pretty easy on work sets. This ensures that I do not have any regression in strength (call it overtraining if you like) but I get the frequent stimulation of training body parts once every 4-5 days with max effort work sets every 9 days. Another poster who frequently submits training systems who I regard as being an excellent poster makes a big thing about not always doing work sets to failure. Personally I prefer a somewhat different approach as detailed above.

Now, I would not be so arrogant as to say that my system is the "perfect" system, but for me at this moment in time it is delivering results. It adheres to what I consider to be the fundamental tenets of an effective system for hardgainers.

In the past I have experimented with pretty simple linear periodisation models and had good results from them. It is hard to argue against these systems, because they are excellent and widely used especially in powerlifting circles. However what I found is that they stopped delivering results for me hence why I subsequently abandoned them.

I'm very much intrigued by some other systems used in the powerlifting world, such as the Westside Barbell Conjugate System and the Sheiko system (non-linear periodisation). I started up a very interesting thread and had some excellent replies from clever posters from this forum. The overall view was negative towards the former and positive towards the latter. However doing some more research I became aware of the Layne Norton PHAT training system which to me appears to have some of the principles of the Westside Barbell Conjugate System in that there is a 4-day split with 2 of these days dedicated to serious strength training and 2 days hypertrophy. On the hypertrophy days the power exercises used on the strength days are performed, but emphasising the speed of the movement (exactly like Westside!). Deadlifts and squats aren't done on the same day (like Westside) and Norton recommends rotating the exercises to avoid getting into ruts.

I don't think that any one training system will work forever and when my current system stops giving me results I will change. At this moment in time I'm gravitating towards a system like PHAT training which I think could work very well although I won't know until I try it.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Fair enough Rectus, since you've given me the green light to expound on my views on training, here goes..
> 
> I am of the opinion that the more genetically gifted trainees have a far wider variety of training methods which will work, albeit some better than others even for them. You can even see amongst the upper echelon of bodybuilders however that there is still a certain amount of variety even to their training methods what with the blood-and-guts approach of Dorian Yates and the generally higher volume approach of most of the others.
> 
> ...


I don't do warm up sets, I just jump straight into the strength sets after a warm-up and thorough stretch. I have seen all of this talk about not training to failure, but for me if I don't train to failure I don't feel like I've worked hard enough - it's always been about that last rep where you become religious for a moment. To stop shy of that just seems wrong to me. I have had a quick look over Layne's PHAT system before, he's a guy I follow as he's taken his body to amazing levels naturally, just by using his superior knowledge of the human body. It certainly makes a lot of sense to combine both aspects of high rep and low rep work, mine just dips into that (I say mine, it's Wendler's 5/3/1 essentially). I notice you go for high reps on the deadlift, wouldn't a low rep approach be more beneficial. It's a great exercise for pure strength and you can really load up that bar. Right now my training isn't as good as it has been just because being in a deficit, it's demotivating spending all your time and energy in the gym when you're not going to build muscle.

I still train hard but I have trained harder, and isolations always go at the end of my compounds. The overhand grip pull up is something I've been working on for a while now and it's making a big difference to my back - I started messy using hip-drive and then putting all of my effort in the negatives, then once I hit a certain number of reps I was happy with, I switched to perfect form pull ups - full hang from the bar, no momentum, slow negative, rest-pause (5 seconds to release the tension).

I don't know if these genetically gifted lifters have more options when it comes to training protocols, it's a simple case of progressive overload for everyone. The difference is how our bodies respond to that stimulus - some are just more efficient than others. I agree 1x per week per bodypart isn't enough. Going back to pull ups, I am considering doing them everyday and see how I respond. I believe this is going to take my back to the next level and your body will just adapt faster, or at least it should. Layne said that he was told to train the same bodyparts regularly even though they hurt and weren't recovered. He said it hurt, and was very unpleasant but after a while his body adapted and he started making amazing gains. This sounds great, but in practice if you've tried to train with DOMS it HURTS to the point where I can't actually do it.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Fair enough Rectus, since you've given me the green light to expound on my views on training, here goes..
> 
> I am of the opinion that the more genetically gifted trainees have a far wider variety of training methods which will work, albeit some better than others even for them. You can even see amongst the upper echelon of bodybuilders however that there is still a certain amount of variety even to their training methods what with the blood-and-guts approach of Dorian Yates and the generally higher volume approach of most of the others.
> 
> ...


I like periodised routines very much - increasing load/reducing reps progressively for a while then keeping load static and increasing volume for a short phase... played around doing this for a while towards the end of last year, and found it very good for a consistent rate of hypertrophy (am in a 'muscle memory' phase though, so that does have to be considered)... am gonna look to repeat this cyclicly over this year to see how it goes longer term.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I've decided to buy Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint Cookbook. It's dairy/grain/gluten free based recipes which should suit my digestive system I hope. The measurements are in "cups" so I'll have to buy some American measuring tools. Also need to figure out wtf broth is.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0982207727/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A4MAXBOL4G9OC

I've got the .PDF but I like real books.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Well I started today, all though it's going to take a month at the most to get it perfected as I want to write a diet plan where I know exactly what I am going to eat everyday. Definitely a paleo roast dinner at every available opportunity 

I'll make this my log too and share any thoughts with you because I know how much you all care.

*Day one:* I'm f*cking starving!


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> I don't do warm up sets, I just jump straight into the strength sets after a warm-up and thorough stretch. I have seen all of this talk about not training to failure, but for me if I don't train to failure I don't feel like I've worked hard enough - it's always been about that last rep where you become religious for a moment. To stop shy of that just seems wrong to me. I have had a quick look over Layne's PHAT system before, he's a guy I follow as he's taken his body to amazing levels naturally, just by using his superior knowledge of the human body. It certainly makes a lot of sense to combine both aspects of high rep and low rep work, mine just dips into that (I say mine, it's Wendler's 5/3/1 essentially). I notice you go for high reps on the deadlift, wouldn't a low rep approach be more beneficial. It's a great exercise for pure strength and you can really load up that bar. Right now my training isn't as good as it has been just because being in a deficit, it's demotivating spending all your time and energy in the gym when you're not going to build muscle.
> 
> I still train hard but I have trained harder, and isolations always go at the end of my compounds. The overhand grip pull up is something I've been working on for a while now and it's making a big difference to my back - I started messy using hip-drive and then putting all of my effort in the negatives, then once I hit a certain number of reps I was happy with, I switched to perfect form pull ups - full hang from the bar, no momentum, slow negative, rest-pause (5 seconds to release the tension).
> 
> I don't know if these genetically gifted lifters have more options when it comes to training protocols, it's a simple case of progressive overload for everyone. The difference is how our bodies respond to that stimulus - some are just more efficient than others. I agree 1x per week per bodypart isn't enough. Going back to pull ups, I am considering doing them everyday and see how I respond. I believe this is going to take my back to the next level and your body will just adapt faster, or at least it should. Layne said that he was told to train the same bodyparts regularly even though they hurt and weren't recovered. He said it hurt, and was very unpleasant but after a while his body adapted and he started making amazing gains. This sounds great, but in practice if you've tried to train with DOMS it HURTS to the point where I can't actually do it.


You really ought to do warm-up sets before the work sets. And I don't mean just a general warm-up (for example on treadmill etc.) but you need to warm-up on the lift which you are performing. Apart from the obvious fact that it is necessary to avoid injuries you will also find almost certainly that you will be able to perform better on the work set, i.e. either lift more weight for the same number of reps or do more reps for the same amount of weight. Usually the lower the reps on the work set, the more warm-up you need to do. If the main work set is for high reps then you don't generally need to warm-up nearly as much.

Regarding my rep ranges I should perhaps have added that I change reps around a bit, according to how I feel. I generally prefer higher reps for lower body, but the rep ranges I use are never set in stone. I think that varying the rep ranges is beneficial for long-term progress. Perhaps differently to some others, I find that my form is generally better when I do higher reps for exercises like squats and deadlifts.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*13:00 -* 5 eggs, 2 bacon, 3 sausage, 1 vine tomato, lactose free soft cheese

*14:00 - *1 banana, dessert spoon of natural peanut butter

*17:30 -* 1 chicken breast, stuffing, carrots, parsnips, brussel sprouts, dressed in honey and olive oil

*18:00 - *2 pieces of 85% plain chocolate

*20:00 -* 3 scoops whey, dessert spoon of natural peanut butter

*Total calories - *1,939 cals

*Protein -* 204g

*Fat - *99g

*Carbs -* 55g

Does that qualify as paleo... this is my first day, It'll improve when I receive my book and if you guys would like to offer any input. That's more calories than I've been taking in on keto, do you think the fasting aspect of this diet is going to work in my favour here? Or do I need to match the same calories I was on when doing keto?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Update: It's getting easier


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