# Re-setting the metabolism



## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

I've read on a couple of threads that using CNS stims can slow down your metabolic rate, i've tried loads of fat burners in the past and i am slightly concerned that using them has had the opposite effect of what they're meant to do and shut down my metabolism.

So other than cardio cardio cardio and weights whilst eating clean is there anything else that can be done ?


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Google Adrenal Burnout.

This is from Tom Venuto on how to repair a damaged metabolism (that is if yours is actually damaged)


Meal frequency: eat 5-6 small meals per day

Meal timing: eat approximately every 3 hours, with a substantial breakfast and a substantial post workout meal.

Sufficient Caloric Intake: maintain a small calorie deficit and avoid starvation-level diets (suggested safe levels for fat loss: 2100-2500 calories per day for men, 1400-1800 calories per day for women; adjust as needed)

Food choices: Select natural, unprocessed foods with high thermic effect (lean proteins like chicken, turkey, egg whites and fish are highly thermic, as are all green vegetables, salad vegetables and other fibrous carbs)

Cardio training: Push up the intensity a bit if you really want to get a metabolic boost. Walking and low intensity cardio is fine, but higher intensity is more metabolism-stimulating

Weight training: The basic exercises that include the largest muscle groups or even call into play the entire body as a unit (squats, front squats, split squats, deadlifts, stiff legged deadlifts, overhead presses, all kinds of rows and core-activation exercises) will have a much greater metabolism stimulating effect than isolation exercises (concentration curls, calf raises, etc)


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

and supplement wise:

Rhodiola Rosea

If your feeling wide awake when you should be going to sleep then add a cortisol blocker at night. I prefer cissus 50% extract.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

POPPA BEAR said:


> I've read on a couple of threads that using CNS stims can slow down your metabolic rate, i've tried loads of fat burners in the past and i am slightly concerned that using them has had the opposite effect of what they're meant to do and shut down my metabolism.
> 
> So other than cardio cardio cardio and weights whilst eating clean is there anything else that can be done ?


Are you male or female?


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Male mate


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

What you have read is with reagards abdominal fat and CNS overload

What is your average stimulant intake for a day?


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

At present my stim intake is pretty low, the odd pro plus on a night shift if i'm struggling (trying not to take them unless i'm really tired)... don't drink coffee or tea.

in the past i've taken pro plus, eca, fat burners (not all together !)washed down with energy drinks.

I was even advised once by a local bber that i should take these stims so that i would be jittery all the time !!

Stopped training last xmas for a few months one of the reasons was that i felt so tired and was falling asleep as soon as i sat down at home.

During that time my fat levels seemed to go through the roof, not that bf has ever been low, hence looking for a magic bullet that does not exist !


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

You have stopped training

There is your answer

I think you are looking to find the hairline cracks on the stern when the bow has a fcuk off hole ****ing water in

When you stop training you will become far less efficient at burning fat

what is your training, diet and cardio schedule now? (in detail)


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

been back training for about 3 months now, doing twice a week full bodies,

monday

squat 5x5

db shoulder press 5x5

power clean 5x5

friday

squat

bench

deadlift

Ive been walking or jogging to and from work 2/3 times a week around 30mins each way to jog.

Diet wise i started off taking myself down into ketosis eating around 200 g of protein from Chicken, Beef, fish and shakes

20g's of carbs from brocolli and green beans and a little peanut butter

i added fish oil and olive oil in to up fat intake(around 130gs) (olive oil and peanut butter into shakes)

Anyway from last week i started adding 100g of basmati rice to 4 of my 6 meals along with the veg and meat/fish.

Thanks for any help.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

What are you energy levels like in the morning and evening?


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

TBH ketosis and that training is a no no IMO


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Mate i was waking up feeling tired,and i could go downstairs and sleep on the sofa ! So i dropped out carbs thinking it may be an allergy or carb sensitivity and i was also getting stomach pains and upsets, i actually felt so much better with [email protected] all carbs ! stopped feeling tired all the time etc and stopped sh!tting every few hours( straight after eating !), the pro plus was getting me through my shifts at work.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> Mate i was waking up feeling tired,and i could go downstairs and sleep on the sofa ! So i dropped out carbs thinking it may be an allergy or carb sensitivity and i was also getting stomach pains and upsets, i actually felt so much better with [email protected] all carbs ! stopped feeling tired all the time etc and stopped sh!tting every few hours( straight after eating !), the pro plus was getting me through my shifts at work.


Sound like your gluten intollerant.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

From what i've read here you know your stuff, thats one of the reasons i've started putting carbs back in in the way of rice


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

rice would be ok if you have issues with gluten as stud says above

you may now wish to have higher carb days either the day before training or the day of training

2 re-feeds a week, carbs starting about 200-300g on those days as a ball park and then returning to the ketogenic state in between

that should allow for fat loss


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

thestudbeast said:


> Sound like your gluten intollerant.


That was one of the possibilites i came up with i also thought carb sensitivity due to the tiredness and the fact that i feel pretty sick an hour or so after eating carbs it goes if i eat more..


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

even on a slightly higher carb intake but still under 100gms i was coming out of ketosis, and having to drop carbs to fook all just to get back in for 3 or 4 days, this seems wrong... maybe i need new kitchen scales !

So say 300g carbs sunday and thursday... what about pwo ? i think you've said elsewhere not nescesary ?


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Lost Soul said:


> rice would be ok if you have issues with gluten as stud says above
> 
> you may now wish to have higher carb days either the day before training or the day of training
> 
> ...


Sort of a TKD? I know quite a few people using TKD's, seems to work well for the endo type, I can't say I have an experience of it. Carbs seem to be more of a skinny guys friend.

As for energy in the morning start taking a B vit (strong one not one of these 100% rda rubbish) and Rodelia rosea at 250mg every morning (3% rosavins).

So what about your energy levels in the evening, pre bed?


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

So what about your energy levels in the evening, pre bed?


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

thestudbeast said:


> Sort of a TKD? I know quite a few people using TKD's, seems to work well for the endo type, I can't say I have an experience of it. Carbs seem to be more of a skinny guys friend.
> 
> As for energy in the morning start taking a B vit (strong one not one of these 100% rda rubbish) and Rodelia rosea at 250mg every morning (3% rosavins).
> 
> So what about your energy levels in the evening, pre bed?


yeh, TKD would have them on the day of training, CKD would in effect have them the day before

You may even look at back to back upper lower splits on training with one larger re feed on the day before the start of that although IMO this is not a candidate for that approach due to the large influx of CHO in the day

carbs and skinny folk get on, carbs and 5 x 5 cleans and olympic movements do though, thin, fat or blimp like 

fcuk ketosis when you are training in that fashion

personally i hate ketosis for most yet prefer manipulation of crabs outside ketosis...so the type and quantity rather than their exclusion


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

i've assumed that i should train this way with weights regardless of whether i'm re comping or looking for mass, that is with me a on a bit of a come back.... please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong...


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

POPPA BEAR said:


> i've assumed that i should train this way with weights regardless of whether i'm re comping or looking for mass, that is with me a on a bit of a come back.... please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong...


unless you go keto

keto determines weight training no end

training need not change if diet compliments it but being carb free when you are that anaerobic is crazy IMO/IME

hence why you would target or cycle carbs in to take that work out away from ketosis


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> been back training for about 3 months now, doing twice a week full bodies,
> 
> monday
> 
> ...


Right so training, are you training to failure? I would train more than twice a week just not at full intensity each session.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Ok i'll stick in 60gs x 5 of carbs via rice as this doesn't seem to fook up my system, on the days before i train and drop them back out for the rest of the week.

Thanks for all of the help its much appreciated.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Basically i,m trying to up the weight each time i hit 5 sets of 5 reps, so say i can only get 3 x 5 and the last two sets are a 4 then 3 reps i've hit failure there and don't up the weight til i get 5 reps on all sets...make sense ?


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

I will add that i've been looking at HIT a la paul borreson...that may be a little advanced at the mo though


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Stop training to failure its putting you deeper into adrenal fatigue, on balistic movements like cleans you need to stop as soon as the speed of the movement slows down. On the big compounds you should be stopping the set 1-2 reps pre failure.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

and drop the steady state cardio too!


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

thestudbeast said:


> Stop training to failure its putting you deeper into adrenal fatigue, on balistic movements like cleans you need to stop as soon as the speed of the movement slows down. On the big compounds you should be stopping the set 1-2 reps pre failure.


So as soon as i have to stop the cleans to catch my breath or do you mean rep speed ?

Won't that make it harder to up the weights i mean by stopping sooner or lowering weight to get reps before failure ?

I've been thinking that deads and squats in one session is too much and maybe alternate starting one day with squat and the other with deadlift.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

thestudbeast said:


> and drop the steady state cardio too!


 As in stop cardio... or do hiit instead ? did this today on the stepper post workout


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> So as soon as i have to stop the cleans to catch my breath or do you mean rep speed ?
> 
> Won't that make it harder to up the weights i mean by stopping sooner or lowering weight to get reps before failure ?
> 
> I've been thinking that deads and squats in one session is too much and maybe alternate starting one day with squat and the other with deadlift.


I mean rep speed, when you start to slow down end the set. For the moment I would split the squat and deadlift, just till things even out.

Training to failure is not necassery for either strength gains or muscle growth


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

well today i did squat, bench then bent ez bar row instead of deads but that leaves cleans and deads in the same workout with shoulder presses in the middle on friday... not ideal


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Train more than twice a week!


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Stuert mcrobert advocates stopping before failure in his books... its still hard to translate not pushing as hard and getting stronger though ! so would i say stick with a weight until i can do say 8 reps increase weight then drop reps down till i can get 8 again ? that way not hitting failure at 5 reps


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

The routine i was looking at earlier is split over 3 workouts, however the style of training uses lots of supersets which i think may be more stressful to the nervous system, but then 3 to 4 days rest between workouts. or are you suggesting a straight 3 or 4 day split ?


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

failure is not required my friend, in fact it batters you and hinders recovery and gains

You are training like a rhino yet eating like a squirrel

if you are training for aesthetics then go to a conventional bodybuilding split that is higher in reps, doesnt induce failure and allows for CNS recovery

keto diets and failure is like getting pi55ed every night, crawling in at 4am and having to be at work for 8am..something has to give

to increase your metabolism, look at the dietary protocols outlined, look at carbs and stop battering yourself

10g high quality fish oils

carbs cycled or targeted

more frequency/volume in weights, less intensity

cardio to suit


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Ok i'm gonna try what you've suggested with my diet, and from what you and stud have said i need to be in the gym for another session making it 3 a week with a different rep/set scheme...

i'm wondering if straight sets and reps, or my preferred drop sets and super sets ? although i think the latter would be more stressful, i've just about always trained to failure and not doing so might be a head [email protected] for a while !!


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Until your full of energy and your metabolism is fully firing avoid the following (it's in order of priority)

1. Long duration cardio

2. High volume workouts lasting longer than 1 hour

3. All intensity methods; training to failure, supersets, dropsets, cluster sets etc etc

Your recovery ability is limited at the moment so simply put these training methods with take more out of you than your able to replace.  You'll go backwards! Your worried about optimal progress when you should just be focused on steady progress.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

1. what type of cardio ? hiit...tabatas...

2. i can be in and out of gym in 45 mins guessing something like 8,10,12 reps upper body maybe higher on legs...

3. i'll do 2/3 work sets... sound ok ?

Ps stud i bought some 1g bvits today... 1 a day enough ?


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> As in stop cardio... or do hiit instead ? did this today on the stepper post workout


Sorry missed that one HIIT would be fine.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> 1. what type of cardio ? hiit...tabatas...
> 
> 2. i can be in and out of gym in 45 mins guessing something like 8,10,12 reps upper body maybe higher on legs...
> 
> ...


1. HIIT

2. Rep range is a personal thing, only you know what you respond best too

3. Obviously depends on the body part, 2-3 working sets per exersize, 2-3 exersizes for large bodypart, 1 exersize per small body part.

B-vit, take one with breakfast


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

with the extra training day will it be ok just to do the 2 carb re feeds ?

Thanks for all of your time and advice fellas i relly do appreciate it.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Tabatas are awesome.

DHEA is a good OTC product to help with adrenal fetigue.

Kelp would be a good addition to your diet for minerals and iodine, alfalfa too.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Cheers Hacks, i've been trying to work out why after a re feed of say 300grms carbs which takes me out of keto it takes me 3 to 4 days of under 20gs carbs to get back in... any ideas or is this normal ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

POPPA BEAR said:


> Cheers Hacks, i've been trying to work out why after a re feed of say 300grms carbs which takes me out of keto it takes me 3 to 4 days of under 20gs carbs to get back in... any ideas or is this normal ?


I dont know really, I do notice that once I do a keto diet I find I can slip in faster.

Some people are sugar burners and they tend to not want to slip into ketosis too easy.

3 days is about right, if you up the fats you might slip in sooner, you can also cut the carbs to zero too.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I dont know really, I do notice that once I do a keto diet I find I can slip in faster.
> 
> Some people are sugar burners and they tend to not want to slip into ketosis too easy.
> 
> 3 days is about right, if you up the fats you might slip in sooner, you can also cut the carbs to zero too.


Scott read the whole thread mate hes suffering from adrenal burn out and keto diet will only compound this (think cortisol)

Poppa bear: when are you doing your refeeds in relation to your workouts?


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Doing them on a sunday and thursday, as working out monday weds fri, ls advised 2 re feeds on the days before training.

Well i've done 3 workouts this week as opposed to 2, feel better for it and my muscles are feeling more sore (doms) than when i was doing the 2 full bodies (vitually no doms), and without going to failure either!


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Oh and as a side note i pretty much have to drop to zero carbs to fully go into keto, tried it as outlined by negrita jayde in her book sliced.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

My thoughts would be carbs before and after the 3 works outs and no others but its not my strong point as I'm very carb tollerant and can bang the carbs down.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

thestudbeast said:


> Scott read the whole thread mate hes suffering from adrenal burn out and keto diet will only compound this (think cortisol)
> 
> Poppa bear: when are you doing your refeeds in relation to your workouts?


Oh, that is right....lol

Cortisol is an issue on keto diets, so is sluggish thyroid, both of those conditions would not be helpfull for adrenal burnout.

DHEA would be a great addition.

Pregnenolone is another hormone that you might want to look into, I only recently have been looking into it as I am older.

Great for mood, and aids in memory, it declines with age.

I remember seeing it over the counter somewhere in transdermal applications.

It is said to help with anti-aging, ballances other hormones, stress reduction, energy, mood.

It also helps for other hormones to provide the raw materials for making them too.

For those guys on PCT, it may be a good addition for recovery. I first started looking into this for an addition to PCT. I have never tried it but I would really be interested in trying it myself.

thestudbeast, do you know of anyone who has used this stuff?


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

you mean like this?

http://www.a1supplements.com/Raw-Test-40-Tablets-p-16167.html


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## jassdhali (Jul 2, 2008)

There are these too.. http://www.biovea.net/product_detail.aspx?PID=1189&CID=0&POS=19&PageNo=&Total=21

Haven' t got any experience with them, but a fairly lengthy list of benefits. Seem Pukka


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont buy all the marketing hype of most products.

If a hormone does something then it does something.

I will give you an example.

GH sublingual products offer more benefits than HGH injections itself.

If a pharma company makes 191AA HGH, and a supplement company offers some homeopathic rememdy that suggests more beneifts, which would you choose?

I dont want to hyjack dudes thread but id bet if he either used some DHEA or some pregnanolone then his adrenal issues might be better.

Not to mention better more productive sleep....................Melatonin...............

Less stress in his life............................

Not a keto diet...........................

A good vitamin and mineral supplement that contains kelp, and or iodine...............

Sex.......................Hell, that is good for all so .......................lol....................

Every day, do something that makes you feel better about yourself.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The pregnanalone issue was just something tossed into the mix.

I actually liked the L-dopa stuff I took.................Seriously..........


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

What dosage for the dhea hacks ? as i've seen 25g, 50g and 100g tabs...

Stud and Ls what are your thoughts on dhea or pregnenolone...? The advertising blurb says they can't be taken together.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Just 25, I would not use more than that.

Too much elivates estrogen in men, unless of course it was due to some adrenal burnout, then some more can be taken but I would add a natural AI or something.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> What dosage for the dhea hacks ? as i've seen 25g, 50g and 100g tabs...
> 
> Stud and Ls what are your thoughts on dhea or pregnenolone...? The advertising blurb says they can't be taken together.


I've never looked into using hormone for adrenal exaustion, it does make sense though as your adding back in what your lacking. I'd say that using quality herbal supplements should still be your first call before dipping your toes into the hormonal side of things. I'd try rhodiola rosea (250-500mg from a quality supplier) and quality fish oils at a high does (they increase DHEA). But if all else fails it is a route you could go.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Cheers mate, i'm taking 9g omega 3 fish oils and 3g clo, just gonna see if MP do rhodiola and look into what it does too !


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

OK stud i've just ordered 100g of rhodiola and some more omega 3's and vit c (high doses supposedy may help cortisol control...so i've read)

could only get the rhodiola in powder though.

Hacks, thanks for your input mate DHEA is another option and i can get it fairly cheaply and easily, i'm feeling a lot better at the mo but if i start to go back then its another route for me to go down... Though the reported benefits with regard to body recomping etc make it very tempting to just jump in... I MUST BE PATIENT I MUST BE PATIENT I MUST BE PATIENT...


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> OK stud i've just ordered 100g of rhodiola and some more omega 3's and vit c (high doses supposedy may help cortisol control...so i've read)
> 
> could only get the rhodiola in powder though.


The powder will be fine but how do you intend to weight it? Its a herbal so dose is vital. The only time I've ordered rhodiola rosea off MP I found out shortly after it was 0.3% rosavins not 3%, yes they sold me useless rhodiola, when I pointed this out to them they reduced the product down to sale price then removed it. But no refund for me, hell not even an apoliogy for selling me a useless product, now days they get very limited custom from me because its clear they have not a clue what they are selling  .


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Just checked what i've ordered it says 3% rosavins...it's not reduced just under £15..

Re weighing it out....erm SH!T ! my scales don't go down to 1g lol any ideas ?

Thats a good point Greek and i guess i really should get myself tested , i was gonna buy some Biohazard protein but i'm sure they add wheat or some derivative of it into the mix, so i've stuck with MP's unflavoured whey which seems to be ok atm.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

POPPA BEAR said:


> Just checked what i've ordered it says 3% rosavins...it's not reduced just under £15..
> 
> Re weighing it out....erm SH!T ! my scales don't go down to 1g lol any ideas ?
> 
> Thats a good point Greek and i guess i really should get myself tested , i was gonna buy some Biohazard protein but i'm sure they add wheat or some derivative of it into the mix, so i've stuck with MP's unflavoured whey which seems to be ok atm.


Mate you need 250mg doses!!!!! Not a clue how you can estimate that! I'd guess buy some empty caps or something but that works out expensive, who would sell a herbal as a bulk powder, thats just silly.


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## POPPA BEAR (May 29, 2008)

Sorted !! just found some buy one get one free caps so 120 caps for under £6, cheers stud, maybe i'll crack open a cap and use it to dose the powder !!


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## Becster5 (Jun 18, 2009)

Hi guys,

I am new to all this and need some help. I am on a very low carb, high protien diet, doing loads of acrdio and weight trainng and rock climbing, but think my metabolism is messed up from years of dieting. I now eat only about 800 cals a day sometimes less and can't seem to drop anymore weight. My BMI is the uptmost of 'ok'. But got weight around my middle and want to shift it all I can.

I have heard Cortisol Blockers work well but don't know which ones to take and am confused from searching on the net. Can anyone help?

I have had my thyroid checked and they have said its 'borderline' but will not put me on meds. So need something to help as feel like I am doing nearly all I can.

Any help would be appreciated!

Becs


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

No doubt boarderline was due to being on a low carb diet, the cortisol as well is from low carb.

I would introduce some carbs in there slowly.

You should have had more fats in there than protein too.


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## Becster5 (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks hackskii,

Do you think I should try some cortisol blockers?? What kind of carbs do you think, just some more veggies and stuff like that?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You could try some cortisol blockers like magnolia, DHEA, etc.

But some carbs like sweet potatoe or oats would help to spark the thyroid and curb cortisol.


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## Becster5 (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks loads, Will try adding some oats and see how I get on. Its a real nightmare trying to loose the weight at the moment no matter what I do.

Whats DHEA?

Thanks


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

DHEA is an over the counter hormone in the states.

I am not sure you guys can get that over there.


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## Becster5 (Jun 18, 2009)

I have just managed to buy some on line and should hopefully be with me in a few days. Have been adding some small amounts of carbs already, to see if that makes any difference.

I take it this DHEA is pretty safe to take? Sorry about the daft questions just that I have never heard of it before.

Becs


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yes it is safe, DHEA is a precurser to all sex hormones.

Dont take more than 25mg a day or it can elivate estrogen in men and testosterone in women.


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