# Anyone trained strength & size and seen a difference between them?



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Hey everyone.

just wondered if anyone whos been in the game for a while trained for strength for months, then switched to a higher volume body part split with less frequency and saw any major differences between the two?

I'm basically talking about your standard chest/tri, back/bi kinda split, 4 exercises per body part done once a week, v.s. maybe full body 3x a week, higher frequency but less volume per bodypart.

I'm sticking with training for strength for now, but am disappointed with my arms development. I know everyone says 'you dont need isolation, just do heavy rows, bench' etc.. but I feel like I respond better to higher volume.

Not to get into debate about this again cos it's fking boring but there's guys at the gym I train who don't lift heavy but look good. Maybe not huge exactly, but impressive nonetheless.

Anyone get big without lifting heavy? Honestly curious.

edit - should add im only referring to natty people


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

I do strongman so my main focus is strength training but i like to train arms and i focus mainly on high reps for them 3 sets of 15 reps on 2 or 3 exercises for bi's and same for tri's and do this 2-3 times a week.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Stephen9069 said:


> I do strongman so my main focus is strength training but i like to train arms and i focus mainly on high reps for them 3 sets of 15 reps on 2 or 3 exercises for bi's and same for tri's and do this 2-3 times a week.


did strongman training build up your arms to the extent that you wanted or was it the hypertrophy work that did it do u reckon?


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Different people respond to different stressors. You have to experiment to discover which will bring the best results to match your goals. The only way you will discover this is by trying different approaches. The key is to give each approach an equal, and reasonable chance. Give each approach 3 months consistent effort before judging. Give each approach your all regardless of how you feel about it. Spend a year doing this and you will save countless years in unproductive training.


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

German Volume Training, perfect volume for bodybuilding and great routine for progressing strength.


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## Felipe92 (Dec 10, 2013)

Arms development :

I have the same problem and my arms started to grow when I started to train them twice a week, once with low weight, slow reps, 3 exercisesx4setsx20reps, and second time with heavy weight, a bit of cheating,3 exercisesx4setsx6-8 reps. You need to find out what kind of training works for you (choose one and stick with it for 2 months and measure the results).

Getting big without lifting heavy :

To get muscle really working it needs to be under tension for 30-45s. Dennis James has his MTUT training method 1slow rep (10-15s positive with fast negative),3 fast reps and you do that 3times in each set. It forces you to use light weight. I`m training bench,squat and deadlift using alternated texas method (powerlifting) followed by MTUT style exercises on machines. The pain and pump are amazing (mostly the pain, it`s just about how much pain you can take). I can squat 210kgx5, and after 4 sets of leg extensions with 25kg MTUT style I`m unable to walk (Squats on monday, machine exercises on friday). I`ve been doing it for 3 weeks and can`t say if that training method is working. With my training I got covered exercises with heavy weight 3-5 repsx10-12sets, and also lot of isolations which gives me opportunity to really work muscle I want. I`m on 750 mg test e and 5000 cals at the moment so I can take a lot of training volume. When I get off AAS I will just reduce volume of my training.


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

Why not add a bis/tris superset twice a week, just dont go too mad.

Reverse ez bars curls superset with dips 2-3 sets 8-12 reps

Incline curls superset with an overhead movement skull crushers etc.

Its size you want so focus on the movement an not swinging the weight.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Does your current routine include chin-ups/pull-ups and dips? If not I'd be tempted to add those in.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Sway12 said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> just wondered if anyone whos been in the game for a while trained for strength for months, then switched to a higher volume body part split with less frequency and saw any major differences between the two?
> 
> ...


people seem to get caught up thinking there are only 2 camps of thought. Strength or volume.

you need both as a natty.

getting your strength up first is priority, but once you are an intermediate lifter then you need to periodise between them and whilst finding your own sweet spot.

i found out far too late that my triceps need loads of volume and once i got that sorted i got loads of development in my cest and upper body at lower reps by bringing up my weak spot (triceps)

I still think as a natty, that hitting a body part less than 3 times in 2 weeks is a waste


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

try a strength and hypertrophy routine if you cant make your mind up


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## barnz (Mar 25, 2014)

Paul Carter over at Lift Run Bang does what he calls Power Building which is a crossover between the two. He started off being a body builder then moved over to power lifting but kept in some isolation work and keeping fairly lean. Stan Efferding is also another one for the hybrid approach http://npcnewsonline.com/powerbuilding-you-dont-grow-in-the-gym/63930/


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

barnz said:


> Paul Carter over at Lift Run Bang does what he calls Power Building which is a crossover between the two. He started off being a body builder then moved over to power lifting but kept in some isolation work and keeping fairly lean. Stan Efferding is also another one for the hybrid approach http://npcnewsonline.com/powerbuilding-you-dont-grow-in-the-gym/63930/


Thats a great link, thank you


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I think if you simplify Lane Nortons PHAT you get a good routine which does both. I think his standard layout has too much volume on the power days. Try this

M: UPPER POWER

T: LOWER VOLUME

WEDS:REST

THURS: PUSH VOLUME

FRI: LOWER POWER

SATULL VOLUME

SUN: REST

You can always chuck in extra rest day and move the days about. there is no need to biblically stick to 7 day cycle unless there certain days you can only train.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> I think if you simplify Lane Nortons PHAT you get a good routine which does both. I think his standard layout has too much volume on the power days. Try this
> 
> M: UPPER POWER
> 
> ...


Thanks mate but I dont think I need that right now, I'm still weak as **** really and need to focus on the big 3. I had never done flat bench before last week... turns out I can barbell row 15kg more than I can bench and can overhead press only a bit less... priorities need to be sorted I think. I did wonder why my back was getting wide as hell lol


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Sway12 said:


> Thanks mate but I dont think I need that right now, I'm still weak as **** really and need to focus on the big 3. I had never done flat bench before last week... turns out I can barbell row 15kg more than I can bench and can overhead press only a bit less... priorities need to be sorted I think. I did wonder why my back was getting wide as hell lol


Spot on. Stick to the basics for now.

FWIW your row should be higher than your bench. At the least equal.

Just stick to what you are doing and add in dips on one day. Chins on another and push downs on another as a last exercise.

3 sets to failure. When you can do more than 10 reps add weight.

Simples


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> Spot on. Stick to the basics for now.
> 
> FWIW your row should be higher than your bench. At the least equal.
> 
> ...


Chins are already a part of my routine, I really want to get stronger on them. Dips dont seem to hit my tri's that hard strangely.. feel em more in my shoulder and elbow, maybe because im tall and lanky with long arms?? Not sure.

Anyway thanks again


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Sway12 said:


> Chins are already a part of my routine, I really want to get stronger on them. Dips dont seem to hit my tri's that hard strangely.. feel em more in my shoulder and elbow, maybe because im tall and lanky with long arms?? Not sure.
> 
> Anyway thanks again


Do more chins

Flat bar or slight v bar pushdowns twice a week for tris should work


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

RS86 said:


> German Volume Training, perfect volume for bodybuilding and great routine for progressing strength.


Either that or one of Vince Gironda's systems, 6x6, 8x8 etc. I personally didn't get along with GVT or volume routines in general, but that's just me and of course I had to try it in the first place to find out it wasn't best for me. Someone else might get good results from it though.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sway12 said:


> Dips dont seem to hit my tri's that hard strangely.. feel em more in my shoulder and elbow, maybe because im tall and lanky with long arms??


Using a fairly narrow grip, keeping your elbows in and maintaining an upright posture should all help target the triceps more than your shoulders I think.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I've never really gotten anything from stuff like 5x5 in terms of size gains, and working in a slightly higher rep range has always gotten me just as good strength increases as I did with lower reps, if not better. Obviously, this won't apply to everyone.

At the end of it all, I'd say just find a style that gets you the best size gains, but a nice simple program that has a focus on progressive resistance increases. As long as you go about it the right way and try to "beat the logbook" so to speak, any simple, low-moderate rep hypertrophy program will also get you strength gains. I'm also of the opinion that 1x a week per muscle probably isn't best for drug-free trainees, and I've found training each muscle every 4-5 days to be the sweetspot for me. An upper/lower, torso/limbs (a la Dorian Yates in his early days) or DoggCrapp-styled split are likely the best options for 2x a week frequency.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

For me when I train exclusively low rep and concentrate on improving my lifts I normally suffer for arm and leg growth - they simply don't respond well to low reps and need more volume. Have seen this several times when changing up from lower to higher reps or higher to lower - in either situation my arms and legs grow better when the reps are higher.

My solution to this has been to either alternate higher rep and lower rep sessions, or to do HST style periodization over 6-8 week cycles. Some of the hybrid routines out there like Layne Norton's PHAT training look like a good option too, although have only played around a bit with those kinds of splits and not actually done one for a decent length of time.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> did strongman training build up your arms to the extent that you wanted or was it the hypertrophy work that did it do u reckon?


It did to a certain extent but i eventually started to do some isolation high rep stuff and thats were i added a lot more size to my arms


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

I said:


> Either that or one of Vince Gironda's systems' date=' 6x6, 8x8 etc. I personally didn't get along with GVT or volume routines in general, but that's just me and of course I had to try it in the first place to find out it wasn't best for me. Someone else might get good results from it though.[/quote'] I responded v well to GVT but it isn't a routine I could do for any great length of time without feeling completely worn out as it is quite demanding


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