# Could do with a hand



## Hougenie (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi guys, just needing some help with the diet if anyone has the time. Looking to add lean mass (who isn't).

Currently on a 2 on 1 off, 2 on 2 off training programme.

My weight is around 80kg, 5 foot 10 and unsure of bodyfat but from past experience reckon its prob somewhere more than 12 but def less than 20% and don't use any illegals.

Recently opted for eating 4 meals per day rather than 6/7 just due to time constraints at work, but on chatting with Andy Chappell I realise I need to get my arse back on 6-7 meals. I will post the 4 meal diet up just to see what you folks think

*Breakfast*

50g oats

400ml milk

250g chicken breast

*Meal 2*

Tuna

baked potatoe

veg

*Meal 3*

60g whey

500ml milk

piece of fruit

*Meal 4*

Now this varies it can be fish, red meat, simply chicken and potatoes or home made curry with spices etc (not the ****e in the jars)

usually with rice or occasionally fajitas so wholemeal wraps. Also with veg

Now I was aiming for a split of 40:40:20 but on recent reading it seems more carbs, less protein is ideal for the natural trainee.

The above diet comes in somewhere around 250g protein, same with carbs and around 50g fat but can vary. The first three meals are pretty standard but the last meal varies a lot and some of these home made curries etc have bad stuff in them eg coconut milk but not all so it's difficult to be certain day in day out.

So apart from changing to higher meal frequency and upping carbs vs protein can anyone help?

Thanks


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## Max1466868006 (Feb 16, 2010)

Add in more shakes, piss easy.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

How long before bed is meal 4?


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## Hougenie (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Dorsey,

The timing of these meals is something along the lines of

Meal 1 - 7/8 Am

Meal 2 - 13/14:00

Gym straight after work so anything between 17:30 and 19:00

Meal 3 - essentially post workout so most days 19:00

Meal 4 - 20/21:00 then bed normally around 22:30-23:00.

Any thoughts?


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## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

chicken breast for breakfast, thats a first for me

whilst building mass have you thought about water with your whey instead of milk?

I read what you said about meals but I will say that I also would be eating 6 rather than 4 meals.

9/12/3/6/9/12

Thats me building mass, Had good results, started of 11st 8lbs when I joined this site, now 16st 6lbs, reasonable bf levels now. Photos here and there around the site. Of course everybody is different and will have to cater for their individual needs, work etc


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## Hougenie (Oct 5, 2012)

Hi Trixsta,

Haha I hate eggs so figured a chicken breast was as good a way to start the day as any!

Any reason why you would say water rather than milk with the whey? The reason Im using milk is to ease hitting macros/calories thats all.

I appreciate a greater meal frequency would be better and am working on this, and as Id rather eat whole food than more shakes it can be a bit difficult.

Any other advice mate?


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## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

With regards to the milk being replaced with water, the milk takes a while to digest, and if your whey is absorbed in the milk really good, it'll take longer to absorb. I also think it depends on your calorific needs. If you're looking to gain weight and the extra calories from milk fit in calories for the day...then I think it would be fine to drink milk however, you want lean gains, which is a slow and gradual process. If I was simply bulking and cutting I wouldn't mind the milk.

From what I know, the best time to take your shake is directly after your workout and an hour before you go to bed. that way you are getting enough protein to heal straight away and to carefully knit the muscle back together overnight, Im sure everybody knows this already. That's also why I would recommend taking your shake with water, as it will get into the system a lot faster because it isn't digested unlike milk which could take up to 3 hours once ingested to begin taking effect. also with milk.


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## Derrick23 (Oct 15, 2012)

Get another high protein source with low carbs and decent fats before bed. Good choices would be cottage cheese, total greek yoghurt, or extreme nutrition pro 6 in milk with some natural peanut butter.


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## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Simply put, your not eating enough.

I don't know where your getting your numbers from either.

Meal 1: 50g of oats - 33g carbs, plus milk maybe 40g.

Meal 2: Baked Potato: 18g of carbs per 100g. so a 300g potato would be - 60g for arguments sake that gives you 90g so far

Meal 3: fruit say and milk you'll be lucky to hit around 30g again but lets say you managed 60g. that puts you on 150g.

Meal 4: You'd need to consume at least 100g of carbs to hit the 250g you said so that works out at say 150g of dry rice or around 500g of potatoes.

I doubt your getting anywhere near the 250g and I was being generous with the helpings. so 250 and 200g plus 50 gives you around 2200 kcals. Consider you need energy for your BMR then energy for your day to day activity, then energy for your workouts, then you need energy to recover, it's clear to me why you might struggle to get gains with this diet, be it fat loss or muscle gain.

Up your portions significantly, ditch the shakes at meal 3 with the piece of fruit, or try to eat a meal before or after this meal.

Even if the additionals meal are things like wholemeal sandwiches with ham mustard and salad, then a handful of nuts and a yoghurt you'll still get aroudn 400kcals extra. While at breakfast your eating 50g of oats, are your dieting to lose weight???

I'm on a diet for a show, I'm 81kg and I'm on 150g of oats for breakfast and 3400kcals, do you not think that you could maybe be doing better?


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## Hougenie (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks for having a look Andy....It appears Ive just been dished out a schooling!! uke:

I think the best option here is to probably bin this whole diet plan and start fresh!

So when your counting carbs are you just counting dry weight, for example, at breakfast (oats with milk) are you only really interested in the oats becuase Ive been adding up everything, so milk also....maybe this is where my numbers go to pot?

Also Andy I read somewhere else you recommend split of 60% carbs 20% P and F for natural?

I cant remember that equation you use to establish the total calories you need, can you post the name up?

Im 24, 5 foot 10, 80kg and in terms of activity level I train 3-4x a week depending on work and am active at work...Im a doctor so running all over the hospital like a headless chicken most of the day doing anything between 50-70 hours per week.

Any further input would be great.

Cheers


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## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Sorry Hougenie,

It wasn't my intention to hand out a schooling. Check out the diet and training program I put together in the natural section. The thread is called "the muscle up program" I think you could do quite well with a diet similar to that. If you also have a look at the other thread high carb dieting part 2. you'll find the equations you were talking about.

Following the diet in the natural section might be worth doing though if your running about a bit crazy, until you can construct your own one.


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## Hougenie (Oct 5, 2012)

No need to apologise, a kick into gear is what ive been needing.

I will check out those posts tonight when I have time to read through stuff properly and get onto a proper nutrition plan.

I should really get my weight and measurements down so I can check my progress.....how long would you wait to recheck these things following a change in diet?


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## Hougenie (Oct 5, 2012)

Andy,

Ive had a look at the muscle up diet and have a few questions.

1. I cant stand eggs, I presume I can just have a chicken breast or something similar here?

2. Where you say brown rice, does it have to be brown rather than white? The reason I ask is we have a big fcuk off thing of white basmati rice from costco in the flat.

3. PWO: is whey with a piece of fruit ok or would you use something like build and recover?

4. You mention a few supplements.....do we really need a test booster at 24/25 years old?

5. Finally - When Im on night shift I dont really train, only tends to be weeks here and there and tend to use them as a week off. Would you advise just swapping the nutrition i.e. sleep all day, eat all night?

Sorry for the list but nutrition has always been my weak point.

Thanks again.


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