# 1st cycle log 65kg to 85kg and counting



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

*Background*

I started my first cycle 20 weeks ago. I weighed 65kg and in the first 12 weeks went to 82kg, realised I was gaining a bit too much fat and dialled it back a bit since then I've reached 85kg gradually. I plan to reach around 90kg at the 32 week mark before going to a cruise dose of test and cutting.

I decided to use gear to pack on muscle as quickly as possible, I was very thin so I was cold all the time and had a very non-masculine body frame which was impacting my self confidence.

*Cycle*

*1-19 *Test E 600mg

*1-19 *Deca 600mg

*20-32 *Test E 250mg

*20-32 *Tren E 400mg

I have also used anavar, dbol (both suspect), and anadrol (legit gear, used twice) throughout this time.

*Diet*

My diet is not the best, I try to hit 3500 calories+ and have a protein shake before going to bed every night and lately I've been having one when I wake up as well. Every day I try to eat at least one meal that has a large amount of carbs (rice, potatoes, bread etc.) with some protein. I eat a lot of different vegetables.

For supplements I take cialis, hcg, creatine, vitamin D, and recently started taking omega3 and NAC.

*Training*

For the first 20 weeks I trained around 6 days a week, using a P/P/L split with an extra arms day as my arms are a bit lacking.

Since taking advice from the forum I have cut training back to 4 days a week and added cardio sessions.

My lifts have increased so far on this cycle from:

Squat - 90kg 3x3 to 140kg 3x5

Deadlift - 105kg 3x3 to 155kg 3x5

Bench - 18kg dbs 3x8 to 34kg dbs 3x8

My upper body lifts were always much less than lower body, as I was so skinny i had very little upper body mass.

I'm going to post some pictures up at the end of my cycle, due to be at the end of January next year.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

I'm not going to lecture you on doses, but lets just say what you are running is very high and for far too long!

You must take some time off after this cycle ends or drop to a low dose test cruise.

In an ideal world you should get bloods done to know where you at.

One sentence that shouts at me is : My diet is not the best, I try to hit 3500 calories+

Food is the most anabolic substance you can put in your body!

If your diet 100% why not?

Do you only give your training 75%?

You're certainly giving the steroids 110% so get the diet sorted!

Have you worked out the 3500 cals or is that just a guess?

Work out your tdee here www.tdeecalculator.net (it will show you, maintain, bulk and cut calories).

I personally would drop to training 4 days a week, remember you grow outside the gym on your rest days!

You should be doing at least 3 x 30 min cardio sessions per week whilst running that cycle.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> I'm not going to lecture you on doses, but lets just say what you are running is very high and for far too long!
> 
> You must take some time off after this cycle ends or drop to a low dose test cruise.
> 
> ...


 I am going to cruise on 150mg test after this cycle.

Definitely working on the food mate, I find it difficult because I live with a partner who wouldn't put up with eating bb'ing food all the time.

According to the tdee calculator my tdee is 3000 with moderate exercise or 3200 with heavy exercise so my aim of 3500 is good I think, I do struggle with the protein though , according to this calculator I should be eating 250g protein but most days I only get 120-150g is this a problem?


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## Lancashiregent (Jul 29, 2015)

Congrats on the increased lifts mate.

Have to echo what @Sparkey says- this is a heavy duty first cycle.

How old are you mate? No worries if you don't want to say.

Jumping onto cruise/TRT is a big step.

Do you plan to come off?

Lipids and HTC will take a hit on this cycle. You plan on getting mid cycle bloods?

Good luck with it all and all credit for the gains.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

6 days training a week is madness tbh.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Lancashiregent said:


> Congrats on the increased lifts mate.
> 
> Have to echo what @Sparkey says- this is a heavy duty first cycle.
> 
> ...


 Thanks

I'm going to cruise for 8-12 weeks and get bloods to check everything is normal again then possibly go for another cycle, 8-12 weeks cruise, then another cycle, for a few times until I've got a decent physique then go off and pct.

I have only got one set of blood tests so far which was test, estradiol, shbg and prolactin, I have to do a finger pr**k test as the nearest medichecks clinic is over an hours drive from me. Over the Christmas period I will be visiting family and able to get a full blood test there off medichecks


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Mingster said:


> 6 days training a week is madness tbh.


 How many days would you train? I find I recover fine from it as long as i have my off day in between legs and pull day , and on my day off I feel bad about sitting on my arse not doing anything active to help me build muscle


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

FFS.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

drwae said:


> How many days would you train? I find I recover fine from it as long as i have my off day in between legs and pull day , and on my day off I feel bad about sitting on my arse not doing anything active to help me build muscle


 How can you recover from 6 days intense training in a single day?

Either you'll be training well within yourself or you won't be recovering sufficiently to train progressively.

More experienced trainers can train more often but, even then, it's not optimal imo. One on one off is the training protocol I use most often.

Feeling bad about having a day off is a mental issue and has no relevance whatsoever to training progress.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Mingster said:


> How can you recover from 6 days intense training in a single day?
> 
> Either you'll be training well within yourself or you won't be recovering sufficiently to train progressively.
> 
> ...


 Because of my split, I'm recovering from doing one exercise at the same time as doing another one. For example if I do pull on monday, push on tuesday, legs on wednesday and have a day off on thursday, I worked mainly my back and hamstrings on monday, so they're recovering on tuesday and thursday. I worked mainly my chest and shoulders on tuesday so they're recovering on wednesday and thursday. etc.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

drwae said:


> Because of my split, I'm recovering from doing one exercise at the same time as doing another one. For example if I do pull on monday, push on tuesday, legs on wednesday and have a day off on thursday, I worked mainly my back and hamstrings on monday, so they're recovering on tuesday and thursday. I worked mainly my chest and shoulders on tuesday so they're recovering on wednesday and thursday. etc.


 To grow you have to fulfill three criteria - Stimulate growth, support that growth with nutrition and facilitate that growth through recovery. As far as I can see you are only focusing on the first of the three.

You grow on your rest days. The sooner you accept this then the sooner you will progress. Impatience is a wasteful condition.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Mingster said:


> 6 days training a week is madness tbh.


 I notice this a lot on here, unless competing or you have Chelsea level development, no business whatsoever training that often.

it's absurd. maybe everyone's trying to get a pro card, eh? :whistling:


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

2 in, 1 off, 2 in, 2 off works well for me


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Cypionate said:


> 2 in, 1 off, 2 in, 2 off works well for me


 Might try that from now on mate


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## Pr1me (Jul 29, 2017)

32 weeks is kinda excessive for a first cycle with those dosages, because were does one go from here without endangering their health?

As far as your progress in terms of the weight your lifting (squat/deadlift) is very impressive, keep it up, get your bench press up to your body weight if you can.

But honestly, i fear for you, i hope you get your pct on point when you come off in January and forget about cruising.


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> Might try that from now on mate


 I can give it my all 2 days in a row, I tried 3 but was too sore/tired to give 100% by then

And good to have the weekend off to feel back to full force for monday again


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

I don't think 6 days is total madness I built my physique on 6 day training I've just recently switched to 4 days and I like it but still debating going back to 6 for now.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Ross1991 said:


> I don't think 6 days is total madness I built my physique on 6 day training I've just recently switched to 4 days and I like it but still debating going back to 6 for now.


 6 days is fine if at the right volume and can get the rest in. I was doing it there and although progress was decent i was starting to feel it and losing motivation so ive switched back to 4 lifting days and feel much better/more motivated. Plus its more days for other interests.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

drwae said:


> This is a very old picture and the before picture is with a shirt so you can't see how thin i was


 4/5 weeks isnt that old and you said there was 17kg of (steroid) gains in between those pics.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

I train mom/weds/Friday and I've put more muscle on and progress my lifts every session, and I mean pretty much all of them, I train 45-60 mins per session and I can recover well and have weekends off completely

if I do four days I can tell my lifts don't progress how they can do, and gains stagnate overtime

you don't know the difference between quality gains and weight gain, your first two pics you gained a lot of fat and you've took a ribbing from it, even though it's obvious from pics you gained fat

you then compared yourself to ross1991 and said you can handle drugs better than him, he used less and stayed lean and gained three times the muscle you did running twice as much anadrol, we pointed that out and it's obvious to everyone but you

now people tell you there's a more efficient way to train and they are proper ripped bodybuilders yet you argue

i guess my point is that there's lots of ways to skin a cat and we are trying to point you in the right direction and help yet you for some reason think you know best still and want to waste your first cycle gains by overdoing drugs, not training or eating effectively, you can obviously lift some weight but if your not adding quality muscle with a little bit of fat your nutrition is way off and your probably overtraining to some degree

take in advice from those who are in far better nick, drop the tren, do a few weeks test alone to Xmas, save it for next cycle and pct for a while or cruise, your cycle isn't too long right now, it's a bit long for a first cycle but no one died or got hurt yet

as I said in another post people aren't trying to ruin your first cycle, more make it a lot lot safer and keep you healthier to boot!


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> I train mom/weds/Friday and I've put more muscle on and progress my lifts every session, and I mean pretty much all of them, I train 45-60 mins per session and I can recover well and have weekends off completely
> 
> if I do four days I can tell my lifts don't progress how they can do, and gains stagnate overtime
> 
> ...


 Look I'm willing to accept advice I wasn't arguing with @Mingster just telling him my rationale and I like the sound of @Cypionates plan 2 days on 1 off and im gonna do that now

No way am I comparing myself to @Ross1991 the bloke is an absolute beast compared to me i was just saying in another thread that I get less acute sides off these drugs than him


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> How many days would you train? I find I recover fine from it as long as i have my off day in between legs and pull day , and on my day off I feel bad about sitting on my arse not doing anything active to help me build muscle


 As sparkly said you grow outside of the gym so you feeling bad is in your head and not a thing! You need adequate rest to grow, your girlfriend life may also benefit from it, you'll be able to train harder when you do go train and you will grow better than if your overtraining 100%



drwae said:


> Look I'm willing to accept advice I wasn't arguing with @Mingster just telling him my rationale and I like the sound of @Cypionates plan 2 days on 1 off and im gonna do that now
> 
> No way am I comparing myself to @Ross1991 the bloke is an absolute beast compared to me i was just saying in another thread that I get less acute sides off these drugs than him


 Yet again you miss the point, Ross would be fine with 100mg probably, he doesn't need 100mg as 50mg is loads to grow from, you are thinking along the lines of you can take sides so why not take it, you need to change that to what's the minimum I can take right now to grow which is how Ross thinks and who'd grew best when you made your statement??

you said you were growing fine off 50mg so instead of taking super doses straight off bat use less, use your brain and grow and then you have somewhere to go to when you need to up the dose to carry on growing, less is more when it comes to first cycles!


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

@drwae I'll give you my advice if you want.

Im assuming you're 85kg and just starting 250 Test and 400mg tren after 19 weeks of Test and deca?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Ross1991 said:


> @drwae I'll give you my advice if you want.
> 
> Im assuming you're 85kg and just starting 250 Test and 400mg tren after 19 weeks of Test and deca?


 Yes, i've been on the tren and lower test for 6 days now


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

bro post ur food plan up lets see if we can help u to start off with u mite have to be boring with ur food as it's important to get that spot on. its not hard to grill 3 big chicken breast buy microwave veg and rice thats 3 meals there. 6 egg omelette with a shake in that shake put oats, berries, bananas, olive oil (big cal increase there) that can be ur breakfast. then tuna with another shake greek yogart, peanut butter. thats 5 easy meals there have nuts almonds as snacks.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Yes, i've been on the tren and lower test for 6 days now


 Listen to his advice when he gives it


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

S1dhu82 said:


> bro post ur food plan up lets see if we can help u to start off with u mite have to be boring with ur food as it's important to get that spot on. its not hard to grill 3 big chicken breast buy microwave veg and rice thats 3 meals there. 6 egg omelette with a shake in that shake put oats, berries, bananas, olive oil (big cal increase there) that can be ur breakfast. then tuna with another shake greek yogart, peanut butter. thats 5 easy meals there have nuts almonds as snacks.


 He's 23 and feeding his missus the same food


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

S1dhu82 said:


> bro post ur food plan up lets see if we can help u to start off with u mite have to be boring with ur food as it's important to get that spot on. its not hard to grill 3 big chicken breast buy microwave veg and rice thats 3 meals there. 6 egg omelette with a shake in that shake put oats, berries, bananas, olive oil (big cal increase there) that can be ur breakfast. then tuna with another shake greek yogart, peanut butter. thats 5 easy meals there have nuts almonds as snacks.


 I dont have a food plan, just some foods I try to aim for. For example today my meals have been / will be:

Breakfast - tin of all day breakfast with grated cheese

Lunch - 1/2 a baguette with soya protein burger, bowl of salad and chicken leg on the side

Dinner - large bowl of rice with vegetable curry and chicken breast on top

Snacks - cheese and biscuits, fruit

Before bed - 2 scoops protein shake with skimmed milk

IDEALLY I would be eating some variation of my 'Dinner' meal for lunch too but we dont live in an ideal world


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

superdrol said:


> He's 23 and feeding his missus the same food


 thing is bro we all no u gotta make sacrifices during the week stay on a solid plan then maybe cheat meal on a evening. his mrs should be helping him or making her own food. as


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Your a beast bro, definitely gonna make it.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

S1dhu82 said:


> thing is bro we all no u gotta make sacrifices during the week stay on a solid plan then maybe cheat meal on a evening. his mrs should be helping him or making her own food. as


 He's on bad enough terms already with her, body building isn't his life nor worth fu**ing it up anymore imo!


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> I dont have a food plan, just some foods I try to aim for. For example today my meals have been / will be:
> 
> Breakfast - tin of all day breakfast with grated cheese
> 
> ...


 Do you weigh all that? Put macros in my fitness pal?


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

superdrol said:


> He's on bad enough terms already with her, body building isn't his life nor worth fu**ing it up anymore imo!


 lol ? sounds like a horrible life if they gotta eat the same food lol


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

drwae said:


> Because of my split, I'm recovering from doing one exercise at the same time as doing another one. For example if I do pull on monday, push on tuesday, legs on wednesday and have a day off on thursday, I worked mainly my back and hamstrings on monday, so they're recovering on tuesday and thursday. I worked mainly my chest and shoulders on tuesday so they're recovering on wednesday and thursday. etc.


 Here was me thinking the hamstring was part of the legs.

Silly me.


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

superdrol said:


> Do you weigh all that? Put macros in my fitness pal?


 dont seem like alot to me


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

This guy has to be a fecking troll


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

S1dhu82 said:


> dont seem like alot to me


 Thing is with the dinner I'm eating 250 grams of rice (dry weight) theres a lot of calories there, and I am gaining weight


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Thing is with the dinner I'm eating 250 grams of rice (dry weight) theres a lot of calories there


 And how many calories do you make that? Roughly? And what does it weigh when cooked?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> And how many calories do you make that? Roughly?


 Thats 1000 just in the rice mate


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

drwae said:


> Thing is with the dinner I'm eating 250 grams of rice (dry weight) theres a lot of calories there, and I am getting fat


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Thats 1000 just in the rice mate


 Jasmine rice that's about 875, but yes it's a lot, why would you eat that much rice in one sitting? Split it up, must take fifteen mins to eat that alone and be stodgy as hell!


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Jasmine rice that's about 875, but yes it's a lot, why would you eat that much rice in one sitting? Split it up, must take fifteen mins to eat that alone and be stodgy as hell!


 I like to eat it in the evening so my muscles are full of glycogen for the training session next morning, yes I do sometimes have to eat half of it then lie down in bed for a few minutes then go and finish it


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> I like to eat it in the evening so my muscles are full of glycogen for the training session next morning, yes I do sometimes have to eat half of it then lie down in bed for a few minutes then go and finish it


 Eat less of it and eat big bowls of cereal that tastes good! Training doesn't need to mean bland s**t diets!! Bulking should be fun to some degree! But you need to get a handle on your calories as you don't need lots more fat gain, work it out to the gram as 200 extra calories will result in more fat, 200 less will not grow muscle


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Eat less of it and eat big bowls of cereal that tastes good! Training doesn't need to mean bland s**t diets!! Bulking should be fun to some degree! But you need to get a handle on your calories as you don't need lots more fat gain, work it out to the gram as 200 extra calories will result in more fat, 200 less will not grow muscle


 Trying to dial it in a bit more lately, the whole eating thing was much easier when I was single lol. Mainly I have the approach that over is better than under, under = no muscle, over = can always cut later (which I will do after my cycle anyway)


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Trying to dial it in a bit more lately, the whole eating thing was much easier when I was single lol


 Your bird is new in your life??

You need to reconsider your personal life as well as your training, gear use and eating I feel, your priority's need to change


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

drwae said:


> Thing is with the dinner I'm eating 250 grams of rice (dry weight) theres a lot of calories there, and I am gaining weight


 U sure that's dry weight and not cooked? I steam 250 dry weight with 500 mil of water 2-3 times a week and that's for a family of four, we don't usually finish it all.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Do you use my fitness pal?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Your bird is new in your life??
> 
> You need to reconsider your personal life as well as your training, gear use and eating I feel, your priority's need to change


 No ive had her for months before I started on gear / trying to build muscle, just thinking back to when I was single and losing weight ( used to be very fat) and counted every calorie of every meal nice and simple.



superdrol said:


> Do you use my fitness pal?


 Not any more, I used to use it when i was losing weight. should probably start using it again now tbh



Sasnak said:


> U sure that's dry weight and not cooked? I steam 250 dry weight with 500 mil of water 2-3 times a week and that's for a family of four, we don't usually finish it all.


 Definitely dry, I use measuring cups with my rice cooker which I've previously tested to be correct with a scale. it fills a massive fu**ing bowl all the way with rice and I get all sweaty half way through eating it and have to take a break for 10 mins


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

superdrol said:


> Do you use my fitness pal?


 Free app only goes up to 200g rice, any more and ya have to upgrade to premium!


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

If you used to be very fat you need to definitely stop fu**ing about and guessing your calories, that explains why you gained 12kg of fat and 5kg of muscle in 14 weeks or whatever it was

your taking huge amounts of gear, probably overtraining to some degree and now you say you don't have a proper handle on nutrition and are guessing food

stop the gear now, get your s**t in order or you will end up in a right mess!

use a cruise to work out how to diet and grow without huge amounts of gear and then when you add a reasonable dose of gear back in you will gain like Ross did

curious as to what @Ross1991 says in his advice... somehow I don't think you'll like all of it...


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

@Ross1991 might recommend this routine that I'm currently following, well he should recognise it, cos I nicked it off him :whistling:


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

drwae said:


> Yes, i've been on the tren and lower test for 6 days now


 Important stuff first:

*Diet*

Diet wise you have to be pretty consistent if you want to look good (especially year round) some drugs can give you some leverage where you can slack here and there but ultimately you need to be on point high majority of time.

I'd download Mfp app if you don't already use it, very easy to track calories and macros.

So 85kg (187 pounds) macros wise I'd be aiming for approx:

224g protein (1.2g/pound I follow this figure as nattys should use around 0.8-1g/pound being the upper limit)

112g fat (0.6g/pound personal choice here but you do need fat in your diet)

Your carbs will make up the rest of your calories

Protein and carbs 4 cals/g and fat is 9 cals/g.

So 224g protein (896 cals) and 112g fat (1008 cals) = 1904 cals

Take your calorie target subtract 1904 then divide it by 4 will give you your carbs to aim for.

Iifym is a good diet to follow allows flexibility and long as you hit your protein target the fats and carbs aren't as important (just rough goals) long as total calories add up and protein is met then all good.

Ideally you should get weighed weekly and take pics when you do, easiest way to see the difference.

Stick to the rule on cycle if you're gaining over a pound a week don't increase calories, if weekly weight drops below a pound add 200 calories (~50g carbs).

It doesn't seem like a lot of weight but over a cycle you're talking almost a stone and it will be much leaner gains and you'll look much better for it.

If you start doing this now it will give you a good idea of the kind of calories you need to be consuming to maintain.

*Training*

Training is completely up to you, people grow from all different routines.

Youre doing ppl 6 days a week atm, I used to do this myself and on cycle you can probably keep up with the volume.

I haven't see your routine so I can't comment but you Ideally want to be hitting lifts in the 8-12 rep range.

I tend to stick to 8 myself for compounds and 10 for isolations with a few exceptions for legs (due to home gym and lack of equipment mainly).

Progressive overload is key, if you're hitting reps and sets then increase the weight by minimal amounts (2.5kg compounds ~1kg isolations depending on type of plates you have).

*Gear*

Gear wise you can run what you want mate but personally I'd have ran 600mg Test for a first cycle then start stacking. Going for them higher doses straight off is really not necessary (why do 600test 600 deca when you could do 600test 300 deca for example I ran that last blast and gained well).

You also don't have to outdo your last cycle everytime, you can gain off running the same amounts as long as diet and training is consistent or you can slowly increase which is where using higher doses straight off isn't great (could bulk on 600test 300deca, then 600/450/ then 600/600 for example).

I assume you're going to stick to the test and tren as you've started it already anyway.

You also mentioned with orals that running oxys at 100mg for 4 weeks then feeling bad, I'd personally run lower doses for longer ie 50mg for 7-8 weeks. Orals can really mess you up on cycle I learned this last blast. They're great for aesthetics as well and lower doses work just as well.

Just my advice mate it's based on purely personal experience not just echoing what you hear from people and the forum. :thumbup1:


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Sasnak said:


> @Ross1991 might recommend this routine that I'm currently following, well he should recognise it, cos I nicked it off him :whistling:
> 
> View attachment 147878


 Haha yeah my old routine id remove the shrugs from pull day I never did them horrible exercise imo, deadlifts works what you need.


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Ross1991 said:


> Haha yeah my old routine id remove the shrugs from pull day I never did them horrible exercise imo, deadlifts works what you need.


 Yes, I have strangely enough. A good short no messing routine that you can run more frequently imo. I'm only training 3 days a week atm with a separate hiit day and playing rugby on a Saturday. When the spring comes and the rugby season ends I'll probably go back to StrongLifts for a bit. Thanks Ross!


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

I'd add that it's diet and training first, gear second. I'll bet I'm not the only person who did a first cycle and was disappointed with it, so on the second cycle, upped the drugs.....only to be disappointed again. I should have sorted the diet and training out, not taken more gear.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Sasnak said:


> I'd add that it's diet and training first, gear second. I'll bet I'm not the only person who did a first cycle and was disappointed with it, so on the second cycle, upped the drugs.....only to be disappointed again. I should have sorted the diet and training out, not taken more gear.


 For me it's been nutrition... third cycle now and only now have I used deca and test together... and only now have I got a handle on eating... I started my first cycle thinking 2850 cals was loads... fast forward after wasting that one and the second too, the third proper one I'm at 12 weeks and Ive gained 6.5kg so far with minimal fat gain... at 4350 calories as of this week, I was recomping on 4000 calories 5 weeks ago!


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

bro read both above we aint being nasty but i also wasted my 1st cycle. ur a good lad that wants to get bigger but ur doing it the wrong way. id honestly listen drop to cruise dose as trust me u will still grow. get food and gym routine nailled 2018 be ur year.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

If I'm being honest I'd cruise and cut a fair bit of fat off, when cruising you won't lose muscle you've gained, you will lose some strength as you've just come off anadrol so the water will drop to some degree and your muscle will shrink a touch, but bulking from a lean point and being more careful this time would result in gains more like Ross, what you reckon @Ross1991


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Ross1991 said:


> Important stuff first:
> 
> *Diet*
> 
> ...


 Thank you very much for your helpful advice mate and not trying to f**k me off like everyone else i will take heed


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Thank you very much for your helpful advice mate and not trying to f**k me off like everyone else i will take heed


 The sooner you realise we are giving sensible advice and stop acting like a child the better off you'll be, in what way is trying to stop you getting fat and abusing drugs fu**ing you off, after all that's what you are doing whether you see it or not, you've accepted the getting fat part and wound in the calories or you say you are, now all you have to do is use gear more sensibly as has been pointed out


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

superdrol said:


> The sooner you realise we are giving sensible advice and stop acting like a child the better off you'll be, in what way is trying to stop you getting fat and abusing drugs fu**ing you off, after all that's what you are doing whether you see it or not, you've accepted the getting fat part and wound in the calories or you say you are, now all you have to do is use gear more sensibly as has been pointed out


 well me and my mate was havinv a convo a while back dunno if u agree but bigger the doses and compounds ur using u need a good base and muscle to support ur doses other wise its gunna be overkill. so for him 500mg test is plenty till u get to a certain point. i think tren is wasted on him at mo. needs to cruise and stick to test dose with orals chucked in for a few cycles. i would of just done a cruise and chucked say var in 6 weeks. he's gone with the best tren and deca already.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

superdrol said:


> If I'm being honest I'd cruise and cut a fair bit of fat off, when cruising you won't lose muscle you've gained, you will lose some strength as you've just come off anadrol so the water will drop to some degree and your muscle will shrink a touch, but bulking from a lean point and being more careful this time would result in gains more like Ross, what you reckon @Ross1991


 Yeah I agree. People are always quick to think they've gained more than they have muscle wise. Dropping orals and onto cruise you lose water weight, glycogen ect but actual muscle mass you won't really be losing it will just seem that way.

@drwae if you look at my previous log and look on the last page it has before and after pic of 11 weeks gaining around 16 pounds although I look lean still, dropping to cruise I've lost around 7-8 pounds of that weight.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

drwae said:


> Thing is with the dinner I'm eating 250 grams of rice (dry weight) theres a lot of calories there, and I am gaining weight


 Well, you cant argue with that.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> The sooner you realise we are giving sensible advice and stop acting like a child the better off you'll be, in what way is trying to stop you getting fat and abusing drugs fu**ing you off, after all that's what you are doing whether you see it or not, you've accepted the getting fat part and wound in the calories or you say you are, now all you have to do is use gear more sensibly as has been pointed out


 You are giving sensible advice mate Im talking about the people that just follow me around calling me fat


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> You are giving sensible advice mate Im talking about the people that just follow me around calling me fat


 You do make a rod for your own back bud calling people out for being jealous of your hench gains...  oh that was me lol, luckily I have a lot of patience and your slowly getting to be a bit more sensible and listening a bit more :thumb


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

@Ross1991here's my current routine, extra arms day not shown

View attachment 147890


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## 76181 (Apr 28, 2017)

Is there a reason for you not doing a standard bench press?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Salger said:


> Is there a reason for you not doing a standard bench press?


 There's only one bench in my gym that's able to have a bar on it and the staff get annoyed if people take a bench into a squat rack, so if I don't want to wait around for ages I have to do dumbbell bench. Also I read that Dumbell bench works more muscles as you have to stabilise the dumbbells


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Mingster said:


> 6 days training a week is madness tbh.


 Camel crew in Kuwait trains 2-3 times A DAY. Arnold and his crew trained 5 hours a day.

With that said I find that muscles recover fast within 1-2 days but the nervous system doesn't.


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## Uryens (Aug 10, 2017)

Mingster said:


> How can you recover from 6 days intense training in a single day?
> 
> Either you'll be training well within yourself or you won't be recovering sufficiently to train progressively.
> 
> ...


 Noob question regarding PEDs and training frequency.

I thought one of the main advantages of the PEDs and especially the AAS is that you are able to train a lot more often than natural since they allow you to recover a lot faster.

Assuming someone gets enough sleep (8 hours a day, 10-12 with nap in the week-end), a good diet and AAS, will they not be able to train 6 days a week ?

Thanks in advance if you have time to answer


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Uryens said:


> Noob question regarding PEDs and training frequency.
> 
> I thought one of the main advantages of the PEDs and especially the AAS is that you are able to train a lot more often than natural since they allow you to recover a lot faster.
> 
> ...


 Course they can but you need to pick your volume wisely, going balls out every session and hitting same body parts frequently is going to burn you out gear or not.

You can take a lot more on with gear though for recovery benefits I wouldn't do 6 days if i was natty - assuming you're following push pull legs twice a week and not standard 1 body part/day.


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Uryens said:


> Noob question regarding PEDs and training frequency.
> 
> I thought one of the main advantages of the PEDs and especially the AAS is that you are able to train a lot more often than natural since they allow you to recover a lot faster.
> 
> ...


 Easily in my experience. I like having periods of "over training" followed by over recovering


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

drwae said:


> How many days would you train? I find I recover fine from it as long as i have my off day in between legs and pull day , and on my day off I feel bad about sitting on my arse not doing anything active to help me build muscle


 You dont build muscle in the gym. Your body builds the most muscle whilst resting. Lift 4 days a week and change 2 days to cardio only. Youll notice a difference.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

drwae said:


> There's only one bench in my gym that's able to have a bar on it and the staff get annoyed if people take a bench into a squat rack, so if I don't want to wait around for ages I have to do dumbbell bench. Also I read that Dumbell bench works more muscles as you have to stabilise the dumbbells


 What a ridiculous rule ?

Ever thought you dont want to work more muscles doing bench press? You want it to build your chest. Shoulders can do shoulders no need to double up.

Nothing wrong with db press btw im just saying the point of a main lift is to improve that muscle group not to incorporate everything.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> What a ridiculous rule ?
> 
> Ever thought you dont want to work more muscles doing bench press? You want it to build your chest. Shoulders can do shoulders no need to double up.
> 
> Nothing wrong with db press btw im just saying the point of a main lift is to improve that muscle group not to incorporate everything.


 Do you think Barbell bench is better to build a big Chest?


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

drwae said:


> Do you think Barbell bench is better to build a big Chest?


 Personally for me, yes.

Its less tough on front delts and easier for progression and form.

Its what you find best for hitting your chest though. Some people grow better on some exercises because they found it easier to isolate their muscles during that movement. For example i started weighted dips and got massive growth from that, going back to bench it has improved dramatically too.

The better you can hit your chest in a main lift, the more you will develop over time.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

drwae said:


> Do you think Barbell bench is better to build a big Chest?


 No. Dumbell bench is fine.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Uryens said:


> Noob question regarding PEDs and training frequency.
> 
> I thought one of the main advantages of the PEDs and especially the AAS is that you are able to train a lot more often than natural since they allow you to recover a lot faster.
> 
> ...


 Your muscles may recover but your CNS doesn't.

If you lift heavy enough no one can recover day to day. In time maybe, but not for a newbie nor intermediate lifter.

I posted a thread on here many years ago asking how many big guys trained more than four times a week to get that way. Only one said he did. @Papa Lazarou After discussion he agreed to drop his training frequency to 3-4 days a week and he experienced the best gains ever by doing so.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Your muscles may recover but your CNS doesn't.
> 
> If you lift heavy enough no one can recover day to day. In time maybe, but not for a newbie nor intermediate lifter.
> 
> I posted a thread on here many years ago asking how many big guys trained more than four times a week to get that way. Only one said he did. @Papa Lazarou After discussion he agreed to drop his training frequency to 3-4 days a week and he experienced the best gains ever by doing so.


 I'm going to cut down to 4 lifting days a week and do more cardio so the tren doesn't rape my heart :thumb


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## Uryens (Aug 10, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Your muscles may recover but your CNS doesn't.
> 
> If you lift heavy enough no one can recover day to day. In time maybe, but not for a newbie nor intermediate lifter.
> 
> I posted a thread on here many years ago asking how many big guys trained more than four times a week to get that way. Only one said he did. @Papa Lazarou After discussion he agreed to drop his training frequency to 3-4 days a week and he experienced the best gains ever by doing so.


 Thank you for your answer.

If I may abuse your time and ask for a precision.

You pointed out the CNS but I believe that the CNS is fried by heavy lifting or some intense cardio (HIIT for instance), when I talked about training 6 days a week, I was thinking more about an athlete who use lifting as an accessory so who lift heavy but train in other sports like let's say 3 times lifting and 3 times playing rugby, combat sports, handball, etc.

Since the sports session often have technical components, they build tiredness from a physical point of view but not mental, hence I was assuming such a practicionner might manage to train 6 times a week and be fine.

As for pure powerlifting, I agree with you as most powerlifter I follow tend to limit their training to 4 or 5 times a week.

Thanks again and wish you well


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Uryens said:


> Thank you for your answer.
> 
> If I may abuse your time and ask for a precision.
> 
> ...


 Lots of different types of athlete can train multiple times a week and progress. The most obvious of these in a lifting context would by Olympic lifters. If your programming is on point you could Squat 6 times a week let alone train 6 times a week.

This thread, however, is one in which the OP wants to get big, and that is the context against which I have gauged my responses. IMO very few people will get massive training 6 times a week. Getting truly large is a massively difficult thing to achieve and one would have to be totally dedicated to achieve such, unless one is gifted with exceptional genetics.

Building up over the years to 300kg Squats and Deadlifts is difficult. Eating enough to support such a goal is harder still. Being comfortable with the fact that you need to rest at least as often as you train in nigh impossible for most. Combining all three in a single individual is a rare thing indeed.

Of course I'm talking here about people who are not naturally big. People like you and me have to force our bodies to grow and, believe me, out bodies don't like to be forced to do anything that lies outside their comfort zone.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Mingster said:


> Your muscles may recover but your CNS doesn't.
> 
> If you lift heavy enough no one can recover day to day. In time maybe, but not for a newbie nor intermediate lifter.
> 
> I posted a thread on here many years ago asking how many big guys trained more than four times a week to get that way. Only one said he did. @Papa Lazarou After discussion he agreed to drop his training frequency to 3-4 days a week and he experienced the best gains ever by doing so.


 If I go for it 4 days a week my pbs stagnate, 3 days is definitely enough for me and I get pbs in at least 4/6 exercises each session! Be it extra reps, a little extra weight for a set or less rest


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

superdrol said:


> If I go for it 4 days a week my pbs stagnate, 3 days is definitely enough for me and I get pbs in at least 4/6 exercises each session! Be it extra reps, a little extra weight for a set or less rest


 Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you lift heavier you have to reduce volume. If you lift lighter you can increase volume. Once you get to a certain level you can't increase weight and increase volume.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you lift heavier you have to reduce volume. If you lift lighter you can increase volume. Once you get to a certain level you can't increase weight and increase volume.


 If I've been lifting 6 days a week and able to increase the weights or reps regularly (I.e. every time or every other time I do a lift) do you think I've still been getting suboptimal growth?

Also do you think 15 minutes jogging on the treadmill with incline is enough for a cardio session? That's all I've been able to manage due to lower back pumps but now I'm off anadrol maybe it'll be easier


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Mingster said:


> Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you lift heavier you have to reduce volume. If you lift lighter you can increase volume. Once you get to a certain level you can't increase weight and increase volume.


 Exactly  I still train light to some degree, doing 3x10 (except bench which I've switched to 5x5 to build strength somewhat!) with the odd amrap set thrown in to punish arms generally on the last set but still aim for subtle progression and I'm growing better than I ever have!



drwae said:


> If I've been lifting 6 days a week and able to increase the weights or reps regularly (I.e. every time or every other time I do a lift) do you think I've still been getting suboptimal growth?
> 
> Also do you think 15 minutes jogging on the treadmill with incline is enough for a cardio session?


 Who knows bud, the problem you have is you've eaten in an excess and grown way too fast for the first 17kg so what youve gained is caked in fat, so using the old fashioned progress pics won't really show much

because your new to lifting you will also be getting neural adaptions as well as physical

you've also been throwing orals down your neck like they were sweets so the strength may have been down to those also, now your doing tren so strength will shoot up again, but because your nutrition has been in an excess you will have grown some muscle along the way but size youve gained is misleading as it's padded out with fat, hence me recommending a good cut and see where you end up (you will be smaller but bigger than when you first started, I reckon you'll be about 8kg up on starting weight once you've cut) before continuing to grow in the dark almost and then hitting it again with a far better handle on gear/nutrition/training

cardio 3-4 times a week for 15-20 mins is fine bud I'd say


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Exactly  I still train light to some degree, doing 3x10 (except bench which I've switched to 5x5 to build strength somewhat!) with the odd amrap set thrown in to punish arms generally on the last set but still aim for subtle progression and I'm growing better than I ever have!
> 
> Who knows bud, the problem you have is you've eaten in an excess and grown way too fast for the first 17kg so what youve gained is caked in fat, so using the old fashioned progress pics won't really show much
> 
> ...


 I realise ive put on a lot of fat but I can still fit a small shirt just about, and I stretch it out in the shoulders and chest not the stomach, so for me I don't think I need to cut yet, although I realise others would want to have a lower bf % than where I'm at now. i've had no muscles all my life so having some muscles covered in fat looks better! lol

After the tren run my plan is to drop to a cruise dose of test only 150-250mg or something and cut pretty hard. I've got a f**k load of ephedrine pills left from when I was a fatty


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

In that amount of time you should have made some nice newbie gains anyway so there will be a fair amount of muscle gain there, but that's a lot of gear so that'll be a lot of water and glycogen retention especially since you say your diet wasn't great. Just saying, don't be surprised if you drop 15kg on your cruise. Got any current pics, anyhoo?


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> I realise ive put on a lot of fat but I can still fit a small shirt just about, and I stretch it out in the shoulders and chest not the stomach, so for me I don't think I need to cut yet, although I realise others would want to have a lower bf % than where I'm at now. i've had no muscles all my life so having some muscles covered in fat looks better! lol
> 
> After the tren run my plan is to drop to a cruise dose of test only 150-250mg or something and cut pretty hard. I've got a f**k load of ephedrine pills left from when I was a fatty


 I had the exact same mindset when I started AAS, I blew up over about 2-3 months with mainly fat but because I was suddenly twice the size all over I thought it was great...

Until I started trying to lose it

My advice, don't put it on in the first place if you can help it, it's a royal PITA to shift later and makes seeing real gains much more difficult


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

drwae said:


> Do you think Barbell bench is better to build a big Chest?


 Not for me, but you can do both. Depending on your split, you could do the dumbbell bench either as a secondary exercise after barbell bench or you alternate between the two on something like an upper/lower split.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

drwae said:


> I realise ive put on a lot of fat but I can *still fit a small shirt *just about, and I stretch it out in the shoulders and chest not the stomach, so for me I don't think I need to cut yet, although I realise others would want to have a lower bf % than where I'm at now. i've had no muscles all my life so having some muscles covered in fat looks better! lol
> 
> After the tren run my plan is to drop to a cruise dose of test only 150-250mg or something and cut pretty hard. I've got a f**k load of ephedrine pills left from when I was a fatty


 And thats why you have no place running what youre running.

Im not saying dont take gear cause youve crossed that bridge now but if you go and sort your training and diet out youll grow like a weed on 300-500mg test.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> I realise ive put on a lot of fat but I can still fit a small shirt just about, and I stretch it out in the shoulders and chest not the stomach, so for me I don't think I need to cut yet, although I realise others would want to have a lower bf % than where I'm at now. i've had no muscles all my life so having some muscles covered in fat looks better! lol
> 
> After the tren run my plan is to drop to a cruise dose of test only 150-250mg or something and cut pretty hard. I've got a f**k load of ephedrine pills left from when I was a fatty


 Sounds strange but you'll look bigger leaner! And definitely better! But it's upto you, I still say as would most on here that you'd be better dropping to a cruise dose now and cutting to see what youve gained truly rather than burying your head and loving the fatceps you've gained

the way your going about it is going to take longer to grow to a decent size than cutting, getting a handle on training and nutrition then growing efficiently which I presume is what you want? I reckon the way your doing it will take 2 yrs to get to a place which could take a year to get too, it's upto you if you wish to slow your muscle growth and take longer to get from A to B


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Sounds strange but you'll look bigger leaner! And definitely better! But it's upto you, I still say as would most on here that you'd be better dropping to a cruise dose now and cutting to see what youve gained truly rather than burying your head and loving the fatceps you've gained


 I dont think I will look bigger leaner because I dont really have any decent muscle size yet  I'm still very small, I can make a new picture later if that would help


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> I dont think I will look bigger leaner because I dont really have any decent muscle size yet  I'm still very small, I can make a new picture later if that would help


 See my edit... I added it after you'd clicked reply


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> In that amount of time you should have made some nice newbie gains anyway so there will be a fair amount of muscle gain there, but that's a lot of gear so that'll be a lot of water and glycogen retention especially since you say your diet wasn't great. Just saying, don't be surprised if you drop 15kg on your cruise. Got any current pics, anyhoo?


 I can pm you a picture if you think you can give me some good opinion/advice I dont want to post it here because some cu**s save it and post it everywhere to take the piss out of me


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Put it like this if you could gain 15kg of muscle with minimal fat and a quarter of the drugs in a year and do it a lot healthier

or

gain 15kg of muscle with minimal fat over 2 yrs with 4 times as much drugs and gear

which would you rather do??

you can even tell me which path your on currently...


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> I can pm you a picture if you think you can give me some good opinion/advice I dont want to post it here because some cu**s save it and post it everywhere to take the piss out of me


 Just post it here, ignore the piss takers and learn from what people say about it (the non pisstakers)


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Put it like this if you could gain 15kg of muscle with minimal fat and a quarter of the drugs in a year and do it a lot healthier
> 
> or
> 
> ...


 Well option 1 of course but it's a bit fu**ing late now I wish I realised that 5 months ago I'm going to keep on the tren up to the end now I don't want to just do it for a week and then stop, do you think I should try to eat around maintenance for now and let the tren recomp me?


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## Uryens (Aug 10, 2017)

Mingster said:


> Lots of different types of athlete can train multiple times a week and progress. The most obvious of these in a lifting context would by Olympic lifters. If your programming is on point you could Squat 6 times a week let alone train 6 times a week.
> 
> This thread, however, is one in which the OP wants to get big, and that is the context against which I have gauged my responses. IMO very few people will get massive training 6 times a week. Getting truly large is a massively difficult thing to achieve and one would have to be totally dedicated to achieve such, unless one is gifted with exceptional genetics.
> 
> ...


 Hi Mingster,

Thank you very much for detailling all that, it is very much appreciated and I understand that for someone to get massive he mainly need to eat a lot, train hard and intense few times a week and get a s**t ton of rest in order to allow his body to grow.

I respect a lot BBers, strongmen and powerlifters, it just not my goal and if I'm tempted more than ever to jump into PEDs that would be to be able to maintain a decent physique and relative strength while adding another sports so recovery is a key factor in my research. That's also motivate my question.

Again, thanks a lot for your answer Odin's son


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Well option 1 of course but it's a bit fu**ing late now I wish I realised that 5 months ago I'm going to keep on the tren up to the end now I don't want to just do it for a week and then stop, do you think I should try to eat around maintenance for now and let the tren recomp me?


 But why not stop the tren now and take 8 months off the 2 years, stop being a child and making a bad situation worse, have a minute, reset, cruise and then do it more efficiently!

as it is now your gonna add more fat, take longer cutting, work out you've gained way less than you thought and regret your statement you just made

youve not wasted 5 months, just learned how not to do it and you can learn from it

the problem is you don't even know what your maintenence is so I'd love to know how you can do that??


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

@drwae , the fact that you now weigh 85 kilos but are still in small size t shirts says a lot. If you'd gained 20kilos of muscle or even half that and some fat you'd have gone up a couple of sizes easily.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

drwae said:


> I can pm you a picture if you think you can give me some good opinion/advice I dont want to post it here because some cu**s save it and post it everywhere to take the piss out of me


 Yeah go for it mate, I ain't gonna share it around and that, I ain't into that s**t.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

drwae said:


> If I've been lifting 6 days a week and able to increase the weights or reps regularly (I.e. every time or every other time I do a lift) do you think I've still been getting suboptimal growth?


 No. Because, with respect, you're still very much a beginner in lifting terms. You will make gains regardless, initially.


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

this guy has surely got to be trolling


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## S1dhu82 (Dec 30, 2015)

listen to superdrol bro i made same mistake chased scalez and had to cut from high bf its horrible. and i think ur angry at people taking the piss its only cuz they care. look at the support ur getting on ur journal ross and superdrol here so dont get down u gotta be like a fresh sponge and 4get what u no let these guys help u better urself.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> this guy has surely got to be trolling


 im not trolling, i sent @I'mNotAPervert! my pictures and he gave me some good tips too


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> im not trolling, i sent @I'mNotAPervert! my pictures and he gave me some good tips too


 Send away...


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

drwae said:


> im not trolling, i sent @I'mNotAPervert! my pictures and he gave me some good tips too


 Ok if you are not trolling then best of luck to you. Here's my advice

- lower your steroid doses

- research progressive overload

- research periodisation both for training and food intake

-research PCT

-research blasting and crusing

- remember that this is a long journey and doesn't happen in 1 year.


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> Ok if you are not trolling then best of luck to you. Here's my advice
> 
> - lower your steroid doses
> 
> ...


 thanks mate, I know all about pct and blasting and cruising already and I think I am going to B&C as ive got natural low test levels, I didn't grow any beard until I started taking gear and my body was quite comfortable being 65kg with the muscle mass of a little girl. im fu**ing 6 foot tall lol

I already do progressive overload for my training , every time i hit the gym I increase the weights or number of reps since the last workout, or if I struggled with the rom last time like on barbell rows for example cheating a bit on the last reps then ill keep the same reps/weights next time and do it without cheating

will have a look at what periodisation is dont think ive heard that before

and im on quite a low dose of gear now im on a cruise dose of test basically only 250mg and 400mg tren on top for shedding fat and building mass


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

drwae said:


> thanks mate, I know all about pct and blasting and cruising already and I think I am going to B&C as ive got natural low test levels, I didn't grow any beard until I started taking gear and my body was quite comfortable being 65kg with the muscle mass of a little girl. im fu**ing 6 foot tall lol
> 
> I already do progressive overload for my training , every time i hit the gym I increase the weights or number of reps since the last workout, or if I struggled with the rom last time like on barbell rows for example cheating a bit on the last reps then ill keep the same reps/weights next time and do it without cheating
> 
> ...


 Everything sounds good accept the last bit mate where you think that 250mg test and 400mg tren is a cruise dose???


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> Everything sounds good accept the last bit mate where you think that 250mg test and 400mg tren is a cruise dose???


 no I just wrote it in a bad way I don't think 400mg tren is a cruise dose! I dont think any tren even 100mg is a cruise dose!! I meant the test @ 250mg was like a cruise dose of test albeit on the high end


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> thanks mate, I know all about pct and blasting and cruising already and I think I am going to B&C as ive got natural low test levels, I didn't grow any beard until I started taking gear and my body was quite comfortable being 65kg with the muscle mass of a little girl. im fu**ing 6 foot tall lol
> 
> I already do progressive overload for my training , every time i hit the gym I increase the weights or number of reps since the last workout, or if I struggled with the rom last time like on barbell rows for example cheating a bit on the last reps then ill keep the same reps/weights next time and do it without cheating
> 
> ...


 There you go again, 250 isn't a cruise dose for someone with very little muscle mass, half of that is more like it! You don't need to cruise on 250 it's a cycle for you at your level

Also what was your actual test level pre cycle if it was low? And e2? What were other markers like?


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> There you go again, 250 isn't a cruise dose for someone with very little muscle mass, half of that is more like it! You don't need to cruise on 250 it's a cycle for you at your level
> 
> Also what was your actual test level pre cycle if it was low? And e2? What were other markers like?


 I didn't take a blood test before cycle, but I had these signs my test was low:

- no beard growth and not much body hair

- baby face

- very low muscle mass

- low sex drive, no interest in initiating sex

- weak erections

- fatigue

- low self confidence and lack of assertiveness and aggression

- gyno


----------



## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

drwae said:


> no I just wrote it in a bad way I don't think 400mg tren is a cruise dose! I dont think any tren even 100mg is a cruise dose!! I meant the test @ 250mg was like a cruise dose of test albeit on the high end


 Drop to 100mg per week of test only For a cruise dose mate


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

@drwae when you're sorted mate probably best making a new journal haha


----------



## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

I deleted my post with pic seeing as you seem to think im just out to get you.

You do need to give your head a wobble though, and folk on here giving you the soft touch are just enabling you to keep doing what youre doing. Its like you kinda realise youre taking too much but are just going to carry on regardless.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Update on the tren sides

I had a very vivid dream last night about shagging a middle aged african woman and then couldn't get back to sleep after that

also im very grateful for the guys on here looking out for me as one lad on another forum told me to start taking lantus as well even after seeing my pics

@Ross1991 did you see my training plan mate? what do you make of it?


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

drwae said:


> Update on the tren sides
> 
> I had a very vivid dream last night about shagging a middle aged african woman and then couldn't get back to sleep after that
> 
> ...


 If it works for you mate then that's all that matters. @Sasnak pretty much posted the routine I used to follow. I'm going back to a similar routine come Monday I think, if I get over this illness anyway.


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

drwae said:


> I didn't take a blood test before cycle, but I had these signs my test was low:
> 
> - no beard growth and not much body hair
> 
> ...


 But you used to drink and take recreational drugs very regularly. This could be contributing to all of these things.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Squats today 135kg 3x5 then 140kg x3

Didn't mean to quote you mate my fu**ing phone did it and won't delete it


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Really been cleaning up my diet since I started this thread, today for lunch I had mushroom stroganoff which is basically a massive amount of mushrooms with 180g rice (dry weight) and some sour cream for fat. I've also had rice, vegetables, and salmon this week and rice, vegetables and steak yesterday.

I've started eating bowls of fat free natural greek yogurt with fruit wheats cereal as a snack


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Legs progress pic


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> Really been cleaning up my diet since I started this thread, today for lunch I had mushroom stroganoff which is basically a massive amount of mushrooms with 180g rice (dry weight) and some sour cream for fat. I've also had rice, vegetables, and salmon this week and rice, vegetables and steak yesterday.
> 
> I've started eating bowls of fat free natural greek yogurt with fruit wheats cereal as a snack


 Did you work out how many calories that is? And what your eating total?


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Did you work out how many calories that is? And what your eating total?


 Yeah I count the calories for those meals now, the ones I dont count the calories for and have to guess is the different ones my partner wants to eat but I am accurately counting >50% of my food intake now which is a big improvement from before


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Someone told me I should take insulin while on tren, and that if I didn't do that I could consume carbs during my workout and immediately after for a better effect. Now I'm not f**ked in the head enough to take insulin, but would a lucozade during my workout help me out?


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

drwae said:


> Someone told me I should take insulin while on tren, and that if I didn't do that I could consume carbs during my workout and immediately after for a better effect. Now I'm not f**ked in the head enough to take insulin, but would a lucozade during my workout help me out?


 Probably give you a sugar/caffeine rush of energy


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Watch this john meadows video and his take on nutrition and drug use


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> *Background*
> 
> I started my first cycle 20 weeks ago. I weighed 65kg and in the first 12 weeks went to 82kg, realised I was gaining a bit too much fat and dialled it back a bit since then I've reached 85kg gradually. I plan to reach around 90kg at the 32 week mark before going to a cruise dose of test and cutting.
> 
> ...


 Are u doing only one type of squat?


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

5IM0N said:


> Are u doing only one type of squat?


 Im thinking high bar back squat from memory


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Are u doing only one type of squat?





superdrol said:


> Im thinking high bar back squat from memory


 Low bar squats only. I tried front squats a while ago but no matter what I did it killed my lower back not in a good way in a fu**ing it up way


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> Low bar squats only. I tried front squats a while ago but no matter what I did it killed my lower back not in a good way in a fu**ing it up way


 Start small. Try with an empty bar, work your technique. How much back/core work u do? If you only do one kind I'd squat eventually you will hit a plateau. Squats might be a leg exercise, but core back and well developed traps are what makes the difference


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

5IM0N said:


> Start small. Try with an empty bar, work your technique. How much back/core work u do? If you only do one kind I'd squat eventually you will hit a plateau. Squats might be a leg exercise, but core back and well developed traps are what makes the difference


 The difference in muscles worked between front/low and high bar is minuscule, there is no need to do all styles of them, he is new so his strength will develop nicely using low bar squats (effectively works the posterior chain nicely as well as quads) without hitting the muscles from different angles and all that rubbish, he is fine sticking to one style of squat, he doesn't need to complicate his training with twenty thousand exercises as a beginner


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

5IM0N said:


> Start small. Try with an empty bar, work your technique. How much back/core work u do? If you only do one kind I'd squat eventually you will hit a plateau. Squats might be a leg exercise, but core back and well developed traps are what makes the difference


 This isn't the case, one type of squat is absolutely fine.


----------



## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

drwae said:


> Someone told me I should take insulin while on tren, and that if I didn't do that I could consume carbs during my workout and immediately after for a better effect. Now I'm not f**ked in the head enough to take insulin, but would a lucozade during my workout help me out?


 When i use carbs during workout it definitely makes a difference, no carbs i get a bit shaky almost hypoglycemic but with them included i feel fine.


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> This isn't the case, one type of squat is absolutely fine.


 but different types for squats have benefits for example if you want to hit your quads hard then imo half reps are better. Spilt squats help with balance by strengthening your stabilisers


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

5IM0N said:


> but different types for squats have benefits for example if you want to hit your quads hard then imo half reps are better. Spilt squats help with balance by strengthening your stabilisers


 Sports science by measuring says otherwise

see here for example

http://main.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/1145/Dont_Be_Afraid_To_Squat_Low_Seven_Reasons_to_Squat.aspx

note the comparison of muscle growth between partial squats and full squats, full squats are way more efficient at building muscle! Inc quads!


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Sphinkter said:


> When i use carbs during workout it definitely makes a difference, no carbs i get a bit shaky almost hypoglycemic but with them included i feel fine.


 I take 40g dextrose or hbcd with 20g peptopro mixed into some sugar free cherry's and berry's squash with 600ml water, peptopro tastes like crap so the squash covers the taste up!

think it gives me a bit more pep, it may be in my head, or maybe it does... but either way I can use the carbs to help me up to 500g carbs


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

...


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

drwae said:


> Someone told me I should take insulin while on tren, and that if I didn't do that I could consume carbs during my workout and immediately after for a better effect. Now I'm not f**ked in the head enough to take insulin, but would a lucozade during my workout help me out?


 I always take a couple bottles of rip-off Lucozade sport (the Euroshopper ones, cost 39p a bottle!) to the gym with me and sip on them while I'm resting. I do believe getting some simple carbs in while you're training helps with recovery as well as endurance during training. That way as well it doesn't really matter what I have as a post-workout meal, protein synthesis slowly elevates in the 24 hours after your workout and I've already got carbs in my system, so even having something fatty which slows down the absorption of the meal isn't going to negatively affect its ability on my recovery.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

5IM0N said:


> but different types for squats have benefits for example if you want to hit your quads hard then imo half reps are better.


 EMG studies show that quad activation is greater in the ATG squat than in the half/parallel squat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26252837

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23604798


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

An interesting update, but I measured my cock before my cycle and just measured it now as I felt like it got bigger, and I gained over an inch.


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> EMG studies show that quad activation is greater in the ATG squat than in the half/parallel squat.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26252837
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23604798


 Yes I find with long bar squat and deadlifts and box jumps too. The momentum is on the way up. That said though there's a guy in my gym and he's been doing clean and jerk for years and his quads are not that big


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> An interesting update, but I measured my cock before my cycle and just measured it now as I felt like it got bigger, and I gained over an inch.


 Why


----------



## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

drwae said:


> An interesting update, but I measured my cock before my cycle and just measured it now as I felt like it got bigger, and I gained over an inch.


 Pics


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

superpube said:


> Pics


 Probably photoshopped


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

drwae said:


> An interesting update, but I measured my cock before my cycle and just measured it now as I felt like it got bigger, and I gained over an inch.


 Erect or flaccid? If erect, well done. If flaccid, consistency of room temperature is key.


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> This isn't the case, one type of squat is absolutely fine.


 Yeah if you want a basic leg workout it's "fine" or "ok". If you want to build a decent pair of legs, then then you need variation. Stance, the way feet point (in out straight) full, partial reps, etc. The quad is made up of 4 separate muscles that have to be worked. Legs are possibly the hardest area to work. So u need more than just one exercise. Split squats for example are better for balance and developing stabilisers, etc


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Personally for me, yes.
> 
> Its less tough on front delts and easier for progression and form.
> 
> ...


 I find the opposite.


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Sasnak said:


> Erect or flaccid? If erect, well done. If flaccid, consistency of room temperature is key.


 He edited his post, it's gone from 5.5 to 6.7" or some such...


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

superdrol said:


> Watch this john meadows video and his take on nutrition and drug use


 Mate, that's an awesome video, what a great guy he is.

Great watch, thanks.


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

simonboyle said:


> I find the opposite.


 You mean DB is easier on your delts?

Thats exactly my point - Its what you find best isn't it?


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> You mean DB is easier on your delts?
> 
> Thats exactly my point - Its what you find best isn't it?


 Yes. But it allows more of a connection with the pecs. Also has led to better development


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

simonboyle said:


> Yes. But it allows more of a connection with the pecs. Also has led to better development


 I found development better with barbell personally, I find DB hits my arms and delts way more.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Fair play


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> I found development better with barbell personally, I find DB hits my arms and delts way more.


 My arms and delts do need to grow though :thumb I'll keep with the db bench and I've also started doing close grip bench at the end of my session to work my Tricep and Chest


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

I stopped injecting tren but my weight has gone up a further 3kg, now I weigh 88kg. I don't look any fatter, if anything I look leaner and more muscular. Can tren really do that in 2 weeks?!


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

drwae said:


> I stopped injecting tren but my weight has gone up a further 3kg, now I weigh 88kg. I don't look any fatter, if anything I look leaner and more muscular. Can tren really do that in 2 weeks?!


 Your still eating too much to gain 3kg in two weeks, but as I said you still have tren in your system for a good few weeks and it'll still be building it's levels for a week or two then it will calm down a bit

cut diet back to 0.5kg a week or you'll end up getting fat


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> I stopped injecting tren but my weight has gone up a further 3kg, now I weigh 88kg. I don't look any fatter, if anything I look leaner and more muscular. Can tren really do that in 2 weeks?!


 But if you stopped using what would happen? It's one thing to something to give yourself a boost. But if you are not paying attention to your diet then eventually it will all fall apart.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Old method of training calves (didn't work too well): put a power rack to the highest setting, put a reebok step under it and do calf raises off it

New method since today: put the leg press machine all the way back and do calf raises off the bottom of the platform

Can feel the burn much better!! Hopefully my calves are finally going to grow



5IM0N said:


> But if you stopped using what would happen? It's one thing to something to give yourself a boost. But if you are not paying attention to your diet then eventually it will all fall apart.


 Ive already stopped tren mate


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> Old method of training calves (didn't work too well): put a power rack to the highest setting, put a reebok step under it and do calf raises off it
> 
> New method since today: put the leg press machine all the way back and do calf raises off the bottom of the platform
> 
> ...


 I find when using smith, if u have feet inward pointing that is effective too. Just use everything and work them at different angles


----------



## bornagod (Mar 30, 2015)

drwae said:


> Old method of training calves (didn't work too well): put a power rack to the highest setting, put a reebok step under it and do calf raises off it
> 
> New method since today: put the leg press machine all the way back and do calf raises off the bottom of the platform
> 
> ...


 If your calves are lagging have a look at training them out the box something similar to this






There is a better 1 somewhere, i sure @I'mNotAPervert! Has a better video but i cant find it but it is an effective way of training calves


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

5IM0N said:


> I find when using smith, if u have feet inward pointing that is effective too. Just use everything and work them at different angles


 Smith machine calf raises are my favourite, I put a 5kg plate under each pair of toes.

I find lower weight higher volumes work better for me on calf's. 3 sets of 25 reps :thumbup1:


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

drwae said:


> Old method of training calves (didn't work too well): put a power rack to the highest setting, put a reebok step under it and do calf raises off it
> 
> New method since today: put the leg press machine all the way back and do calf raises off the bottom of the platform
> 
> Can feel the burn much better!! Hopefully my calves are finally going to grow





bornagod said:


> There is a better 1 somewhere, i sure @I'mNotAPervert! Has a better video but i cant find it but it is an effective way of training calves


 Yeah, I wrote my method of training calves which I do at home every other day (training them at least twice a week is the way to go and you can of course do it at the gym), my calves have always been a weak area but I've bought them up by a couple of inches over the past few months just by doing this - best part is, all you need is a step (a thick Oly plate will even suffice), some sort of vertical structure to put your hand on to balance against like a wall or a pole, and a dumbbell (might not even need a dumbbell if your calves are currently not very strong). https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/305966-need-help-on-calves/?do=findComment&comment=5797020

Just FYI, these squatted/kneeling calf raises are basically an alternative to seated calf raises and both hit the soleus, so if you prefer those then do them - one thing I will highlight as written about in the post linked above, is you absolutely will NOT build any appreciable level of mass on your calves just doing standing/straight-legged calf raises. This is where I always went wrong. The soleus makes up most of the mass on your calves, and is properly trained when calf raises are performed with the knee bent at an angle of 90 degrees or greater. Seated calf raises or squatting calf raises both achieve this. Whatever you do, you should include both straight-legged and bent-legged calf raises into your routine.


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

I find the best calf raises are standing on your tip toes to peep over the top of the shower doors in pure gym to take a look at all the birds....theres quite a few cubicles aswell so work your way down each one and back again a few times and I guarantee youll get a good pump...and not just in your calves either :whistling:

And if any of them silly b1tches even have the audacity to question why your in there...you tell em you identify as a female and report them to the police for discrimination for assuming your gender and state you have the right to be in the girls showers...gotta take advantage of this snowflake generation from time to time


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Smith machine calf raises are my favourite, I put a 5kg plate under each pair of toes.
> 
> I find lower weight higher volumes work better for me on calf's. 3 sets of 25 reps :thumbup1:


 Have you tried with toes pointing inward??? I prefer using something such as a reebok bench, the rounded edge on plates I find awkward for balance


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Simon90 said:


> I find the best calf raises are standing on your tip toes to peep over the top of the shower doors in pure gym to take a look at all the birds....theres quite a few cubicles aswell so work your way down each one and back again a few times and I guarantee youll get a good pump...and not just in your calves either :whistling:
> 
> And if any of them silly b1tches even have the audacity to question why your in there...you tell em you identify as a female and report them to the police for discrimination for assuming your gender and state you have the right to be in the girls showers...gotta take advantage of this snowflake generation from time to time


 Pure gym have those matrix machines like gym group ? Also re: the police, I think it might be u being arrested and added to sex offenders register.


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Pure gym have those matrix machines like gym group ?


 Are they the ones where your seated at an angle? I don't go pure gym much tbh it's only a last resort if my gym closed or after a late shift


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Simon90 said:


> Are they the ones where your seated at an angle? I don't go pure gym much tbh it's only a last resort if my gym closed or after a late shift


 I use easygym for 24/7. Fasted cardio. Much better equipment (precor) and decent weight room plus tons of other stuff. Puregym machines not good. The multi stack is ok. But rest rubbish


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> My arms and delts do need to grow though :thumb I'll keep with the db bench and I've also started doing close grip bench at the end of my session to work my Tricep and Chest


 Are you doing dips??


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Are you doing dips??


 No dips

On push day I do:

Dumbbell bench

Dumbbell incline bench

Dumbbell shoulder press

Barbell push press

Barbell close grip bench


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> I use easygym for 24/7. Fasted cardio. Much better equipment (precor) and decent weight room plus tons of other stuff. Puregym machines not good. The multi stack is ok. But rest rubbish


 Yeah they're sh1t I only use free weights though so don't bother with the machines unless I'm in my usual gym


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Smith machine calf raises are my favourite, I put a 5kg plate under each pair of toes.
> 
> I find lower weight higher volumes work better for me on calf's. 3 sets of 25 reps :thumbup1:





drwae said:


> No dips
> 
> On push day I do:
> 
> ...


 Push day?


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Push day?


 Are you not using decline?


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Smith machine calf raises are my favourite, I put a 5kg plate under each pair of toes.
> 
> I find lower weight higher volumes work better for me on calf's. 3 sets of 25 reps :thumbup1:





Endomorph84 said:


> Smith machine calf raises are my favourite, I put a 5kg plate under each pair of toes.
> 
> I find lower weight higher volumes work better for me on calf's. 3 sets of 25 reps :thumbup1:


 I haven't yet done vertical leg press on the smith. But supposed to be good for hamstrings


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Are you not using decline?


 No , the benches in my gym dont go down only up


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> No , the benches in my gym dont go down only up


 Are they Olympic benches?


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Are they Olympic benches?


 I dont know the brand mate, im assuming their techno gym . although we got the proper red/blue/yellow/green plates from eleiko


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Simon90 said:


> Yeah they're sh1t I only use free weights though so don't bother with the machines unless I'm in my usual gym


 Hammer strength??


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> I dont know the brand mate, im assuming their techno gym . although we got the proper red/blue/yellow/green plates from eleiko


 10/15/20/25??? (5kg/white)


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> I dont know the brand mate, im assuming their techno gym . although we got the proper red/blue/yellow/green plates from eleiko


 I got a day pass while back for copperbox gym at Olympic Park. I was going thinking it was gonna be the dogs bollocks. Got there all technogym. No bench and just one smith machine. In the end I stuck to dumbells kettlebells and a core bag.


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Hammer strength??


 Yeah I only use them now and then to mix it up but I love hammer strength especially for back


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

Simon90 said:


> Yeah I only use them now and then to mix it up but I love hammer strength especially for back


 Yeah me too for back. But leg press (decline) they have hydraulic which cushion the weight. For that I prefer precor. U load 200kg and u feel the weight. When i use hammer I have to put 220 to get the same hit. For calves though i think cybex calf machine is pretty decent


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

drwae said:


> No , the benches in my gym dont go down only up


 Those benches sound like my bird.... :whistling:


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Those benches sound like my bird.... :whistling:


 Mine too lol


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

I havent\ had doms in months but these new calf exercises yesterday have had me in pain walking around today! calves are killing me


----------



## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

drwae said:


> I havent\ had doms in months but these new calf exercises yesterday have had me in pain walking around today! calves are killing me


 Nice. Do you drink BCAAS? I find I don't get the DOMS if I drink plenty of BCAAS


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Endomorph84 said:


> Nice. Do you drink BCAAS? I find I don't get the DOMS if I drink plenty of BCAAS


 Used to drink them pre workout every time then i got a horrible flavour bulk powders mojito managed to get through almost a whole bag before i just couldn't stomach it any longer and it put me off BCAA forever!


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> I am going to cruise on 150mg test after this cycle.
> 
> Definitely working on the food mate, I find it difficult because I live with a partner who wouldn't put up with eating bb'ing food all the time.
> 
> According to the tdee calculator my tdee is 3000 with moderate exercise or 3200 with heavy exercise so my aim of 3500 is good I think, I do struggle with the protein though , according to this calculator I should be eating 250g protein but most days I only get 120-150g is this a problem?


 Do you have meal plan set up ?


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

drwae said:


> Used to drink them pre workout every time then i got a horrible flavour bulk powders mojito managed to get through almost a whole bag before i just couldn't stomach it any longer and it put me off BCAA forever!


 Just snort it mate job done


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

5IM0N said:


> Do you have meal plan set up ?


 Not yet. Just bulking and eating lots of chicken and protein shakes and aiming for a roughly correct calorie amount. I'm up to 88kg now so doing something right


----------



## 5IM0N (Dec 8, 2017)

drwae said:


> Not yet. Just bulking and eating lots of chicken and protein shakes and aiming for a roughly correct calorie amount. I'm up to 88kg now so doing something right


 How did u train before using ???

And how has that changed?


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

It's what you've all been waiting for lads, legit drwae progress pic to show how ripped I'm getting for Christmas

Merry Xmas ukm


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

drwae said:


> It's what you've all been waiting for lads, legit drwae progress pic to show how ripped I'm getting for Christmas
> 
> Merry Xmas ukm
> 
> View attachment 148176


 Cheers buddy - Pics for my wank bank along with @anna1feet pics


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Endomorph84 said:


> Nice. Do you drink BCAAS? I find I don't get the DOMS if I drink plenty of BCAAS


 You mean intra workout?

Cause BCAAs shouldnt be necessary if you are getting enough protein as thats all they are.


----------



## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Ross1991 said:


> Cheers buddy - Pics for my wank bank along with @anna1feet pics


 Pm me we can work out a deal on a private set


----------



## bornagod (Mar 30, 2015)

drwae said:


> It's what you've all been waiting for lads, legit drwae progress pic to show how ripped I'm getting for Christmas
> 
> Merry Xmas ukm
> 
> View attachment 148176


 Defo put a little bit of size on since you posted the 1st pictures (you look atleast 13 now :rolleye11: :lol: . Just keep plugging away and nail diet and you'll get there in the end.

I know ive taken the pìss previously but you seem to have seen your ways and sorted things before they got bad.

So keep at it


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> You mean intra workout?
> 
> Cause BCAAs shouldnt be necessary if you are getting enough protein as thats all they are.


 I drink them intra mostly, sip on them through the day in work (unflavoured with squash).

I can definitely tell a difference in muscle soreness/ DOMS if I haven't drank any. Makes a big difference to me, even with adequate protein.


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