# Insulin - looking to start



## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Ok everyone..

I'm venturing into using insulin and would like to clear things up with everyone before doing so.

Currently I have 3x100ius (3mls each) of Novarapid (it was dirt cheap!!). Now I know it's the fastest acting type and I also know insulin is not a toy to mess about with so I'm going to start with 2iu first and take it from there.. .I'm on no rush with this!

I plan to do the following.

2iu insulin/4iu's HGH PWO - 4x week.

I have read the "Insulin how good" thread and like what Kinprop says about having the shots with your others meals and leave out the PWO shot so plan to look into this when raising the insulin later on.

*Questions :*

Cycling : How long does most use it for before taking a break? 6on/2off?

PWO meal and 1 hour later : Beside having a PWO shake how many actually sit down and hour later and eat a proper meal?

Transport : I can easily mix the Insulin/HGH night before or before work but what do I carry it to work and then to gym. I leave home at about 8:45 and finish gym everyday at 3pm.

I assume at 2iu mixed with 4iu of HGH I have little worry of go hypo? At roughly what dosage of insulin does one have to be aware of this if you get meals wrong?

I have .5 ml slin syringe which reads 0-50. These pens are 100iu per 3ml.





Diet wise I eat the following during the day

8am : 6 egg whites, 60grams oats and 2 scoops Pro-Lab whey + 4 EFA's

11:45 : 200 grams chicken with about fist full of rice or mashed potatoes and veggies.

Train : 2pm

Finish/PWO : 3pm Met-Rx 25gram protein , and sometimes a cheese, tomato sandwich I back up on the way back to work. (it just taste too nice)

4pm : Another Met-Rx 25g protein with +-60gram oats

6pm : Same as 11:45

9pm : Similar to the 6pm and 11:45 meal but can be 2 pieces of fish.

11:30 : 4 eggs whites plus 2 scoop Pro-Lab + 4 EFA caps, plus 4 ZMA

That's about it... I'm sure you guys spot loads I'm missing.

.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

I dont knjow wether its a good idea to leave it in your bag for 6+ hours do you go straight home after the gym.

PWO you want some fast acting carbs in there from corn flour or malto unless its in that met rex stuff

A solid meal 45mins to an hour after the jab is very important should be clean cut carbs jacket pot or oats with some lean meat or fish.

if you get meals wrong 2iu may cause you to hypo it depends how sensitive you are etc but its not worth taking any risks.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

If insulin (high blood sugar) and HGH (low blood sugar) are only secreted at these times, which is fact. Why do you think shooting them together is a good idea?

Serious question here bro, no disrespect or wanting to go into a flame war or ****ing contest or anything. Im just very unsure as to why folk shoot these together PWO. It doesnt make sense to me apart from the stuff I read online, and the fact the both of these hormones are anabolic, fab, and desirable. But why both together at the same time and why PWO?

Seriously and honestly guys. Ive looked into this as you all have, no more, no less. But ive yet to come away with one good scientific reason to do this with regards to building muscle tissue to its fullest. If someone can convince me otherwise, trust me, ill be the first to be bang on it, lol


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

regarding gh/slin pwo iv read a few times its to do with it becoming igf1 ??

slin would be fine out the fridge for 4 weeks once open and being used hgh is much more fragile especially when mixed


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Well I generally do the HGH before bed and sleeping somewhere between my matress and floor is awesome!!! Deeeeeeeeeep sleeeepzzzzz!

But to answer your question Kingprop I read is lessons the chances of going hypo a bit and every bit helps I suppose. That is my only reason for it.



hilly2008 said:


> I dont knjow wether its a good idea to leave it in your bag for 6+ hours do you go straight home after the gym.
> 
> PWO you want some fast acting carbs in there from corn flour or malto unless its in that met rex stuff
> 
> ...


Corn flour or Malto hey... any other fast acting carbs people use?




jjb1 said:


> regarding gh/slin pwo iv read a few times its to do with it becoming igf1 ??
> 
> slin would be fine out the fridge for 4 weeks once open and being used hgh is much more fragile especially when mixed


I mix up 10iu of HGH at a time as that's what the vials come in. Gets used over 3 nights, stored in a fridge using BAC water.

But still does one take it to work in a ice pack or something to keep HGH cool atleast? Cant sit with this sh!t on my desk in a little fridge PMSL.

*EDIT: Or just keeping the insulin cool if we establish no real benefit mixing the two together?*


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

So its used as a combo for IGF production? Why would this be so massively important for the PWO time? As apposed to any other?

With regards to lessening hypo extremes. Good point. It would, due to the fact that they are apposing hormones, as dictated to by human nature/homeostasis; be correct to conclude.

Conducting correct nutrition and insulin administration would also lessen hypos though surely? Using an expensive compound like HGH to do the job seems......well......expensive if nothing else.

I just question the IGF importance factor for PWO over any other time. If I read tubs of stuff in the GNC I could begin to believe their facts on IGF production by this or that, then combined with the PWO window of opportunity blah-de-blah back up to it hype.

Then combine this with the gym dealers 10ius of this with 10ius of that questionable origins, ive yet to find this to work.

You could of course use IGF instead?

Save money and risk of death.

Gotta be better huh?


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Very intresting thread. Tainted soul - you will have to keep this thread or a new one on your progress on this. Im not anywhere near the stage of using Slin & HGH but want to learn about it.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

kingprop said:


> Conducting correct nutrition and insulin administration would also lessen hypos though surely? Using an expensive compound like HGH to do the job seems......well......expensive if nothing else.


I'll be more focussed on getting the food right to lessen hypo. Just figured if there is an added % help to lesson going hypo then bonus and wonedered if the two together would have added benefits.

When do you take your HGH Kingprop?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

On the days i do not use insulin mate. Idea being insulin=anabolic+fat accumulation. HGH=anabolic+fat burning. I believe that all chinese GH available atm is 192aa. This is best used in larger doses than 191aa but less frequently to prevent antibody build up/reaction. I also believe that everyone will suffer this antibody reaction as the GH is not the same as our bodies own. I believe this is true as 192aa was the first synthetic GH available to treat dwarfism, but evidence states that it stopped working for them (hence 191aa creation)

Personally ive used chinese blues on a constant ED regimen and felt the effects dissipated after a few weeks. EOD, or 3xweek has worked much better for me. Im also in favour of administration in high dose short burst type use as this is how our bodies released it when we were kids to help growth. Nature knows best.

I should then consider insulin use at every meal constantly then if nature knows best but here im scared of becoming insulin dependant, so again EOD or 3xweek seems best approach. It seems therefore safer insulin wise and more effective GH wise if GH is 192aa.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

This is really making a mole out of a molehill.

Its really simple.

Just use 10iu's straight off with 10iu's of GH, 5/5 in each bodypart, straight after training, then have a shake with simple sugars straight after, upto 15-20mins TOPS.

Its not rocket science, if someone was to go hypo and didn't realise then they need putting down for being a total tool....because its that obvious, just make sure you have sugary things on hand in case you do, but the GH will really water down any chances of going hypo.

From my experience anyway.


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

ok it seems like we have some hard line pwo sline users ,which i was for many years with near fatal problems as i pushed the units to high for what my body could absorb lesson learnt.

one point that kingprop has made in another thread is the glucoes in the post work out shake will make the bodys insuline naturaly respond ontop of what you have put in so thats a possible double whamy and stuffing sweets aint the answer because all that **** is being sucked up.

hence water and fat and big guts i no this because it exactly how i have looked in the past.

heres the point im making which king prop has been doing for a while, after each meal, small amounts is safe and gives good full look.

i found i was doing pwo big shake and eating a meal 1 hour later which was 100g protien and 200g carb and looked very full but pregnant as well.

so why just use sline to suck up one meal and one shake when there is a whole days worth of food to take advantage of.

im experimenting with 7 solid meals a day spaced 2.5 hours apart some closer but no longer .

still have pwo shake with simple and complex carbs plus whey but no siln then tea 1 hour after.

im taking sline after the first 5 meals and after my first evenning meal after trainning so thats 6 shots a day .

i have started very low amounts under 2ius and have monitured my blood sugar right through the day and all is good so far no hypos.

im only on sline and gh (taken at seperate times)as im taking a break off the gear.

the sline is novarapid .

i think 25 grams of whey and a cheese and tomato sandwich is dodgy and 60g of oats in the next drink is only 30 odd grams of carbs .

you may get away with it on that low dosage but when you push more units be prepared for trouble.

if you are going with pwo then the meal 1 hour later is essential and a good size one at that.

having done both i feel the little and often is safer and more productive than the big hit in the window of opertuniity but its early days yet for me and this experiment.

king prop talks alot of sence on this one and im a beliver but we have to try different stuff for ourselves so good luck and be safe.


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

Here, Tainted read this.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/32545-insulin-anabolic-cycle.html


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Beans said:


> Here, Tainted read this.
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/32545-insulin-anabolic-cycle.html


yeah old Wogihao. Wish he was still around. Anyway that's a bit wild for a first time user I.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Adrian, Kimgprop. So you both basically agree skip PWO and use slin with meals.

Eat meal, 5 minutes later inject and then do you have to worry about an hour later feeding the body something? Seeing as you just ate a big meal?

P.S. Adrian.. the cheese and tomato sandwich will be stopping


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Not if your proposed 10ius PWO amount was split into 5 x 2iu shots with meals. It will simply increase absorption of said meal and speed this process up. Getting food in and processed well has got to be a good thing.

PWO slin can be a dangerous game. It didnt work for me but as we will all agree it is what works best for you. Experiment first with low dose regimens and see what happens.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Five-O said:


> This is really making a mole out of a molehill.
> 
> Its really simple.
> 
> ...


This is what I mean by blanket dangerous advice. Shoot 10ius then have a shake after? Surely this should be the other way round? Why wait? If the body releases insulin once blood sugar levels rise doing this will run the risk of them never rising enough for natural secretion. This leads to insulin tolerance.

No disrespect meant mate but if shooting in body parts and using a pen how do you know you wont hit a cappiliary therefore speeding up absorption of the insulin? This, at a time of low BS (PWO) and especially if using Novorapid is asking for trouble.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

So Kingprop, sorry if i sound so unexperienced with this. So you recommend Tainted to use 2iu across 5 meals directly after that meal. I just have a few basic questions on this proposed method

Is this 7 days a week?

When do you personally use the HGH and how much?

Do workout days differ to non workout days?

How long would you run this for in weeks?

Thanks


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I think we are all inexperienced in this mate to be honest.

Currently using HGH at 5ius twice per day tuesday and thursday. Insulin at meal times (2 meals) mon/wed/fri. I train monday-friday with weekends off and dont run anything then.

With a low dose schedule re insulin use, and its alternate days I am hoping not to see any insulin tolerance build up so in theory you could run this protocol for long periods of time. I think a two week break now and again will only be beneficial to both my pancreas and the assessment of tolerance.

Guess time will tell on that front.


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## coco (Mar 29, 2007)

im a bit lost with the insulin with everymeal?

wont you be naturally producing low dose insulin with everymeal anyway,

whats the point in adding extra at this time? will this not just lead to supression of natural release?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

kingprop said:


> I believe that all chinese GH available atm is 192aa.


Hi Dave how you doing mate all well i hope??

can i ask why you think this?

As for the going Hypo issue i have not used slin for over 9months and i just went Hypo after getting out the shower this just shows you that if this can happen when not using slin just imagine what could happen when using slin...


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

kingprop said:


> This is what I mean by blanket dangerous advice. Shoot 10ius then have a shake after? Surely this should be the other way round? Why wait? If the body releases insulin once blood sugar levels rise doing this will run the risk of them never rising enough for natural secretion. This leads to insulin tolerance.
> 
> No disrespect meant mate but if shooting in body parts and using a pen how do you know you wont hit a cappiliary therefore speeding up absorption of the insulin? This, at a time of low BS (PWO) and especially if using Novorapid is asking for trouble.


Mate, this is my opinion, through over 1 year of use, of both only PWO.

I gain, and do not tend to gain fat, I have neither ever gone hypo whatsoever, why is it blanket dangerous advice?

You train...muscles become starved of nutrients and glycogen.....you shoot both gh/slin in same pin, slin acts as a shuttle for nutrients......you then feed nutrients into body in form of PWO shake....I have seen site enhancement in bodyparts doing this protocol. So why stop whats working???

The trouble with you is you complicate things too much when in theory.....and infact..reality, its simple.

now I do not have the body of yourself (if that is you in the avatar) but I do have experience of cycling what the OP posted about, therefore, given that I haven't experienced any sides AT ALL, why is it bad advice? :confused1:

Too many ppl like to become too technical and precise, I do not disrespect slin, but I know what works from experience and know what will happen. It might even shock you to know I have shot slin/gh, had a shake and then gone possibly 5 hours without a meal.....shocking? who gives a fvck...GH blunts the ability of going hypo with slin, ask how many ppl on here have had issues with going hypo compared to hw many have done by taking slin solely on its own.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

kingprop said:


> This is what I mean by blanket dangerous advice. Shoot 10ius then have a shake after? Surely this should be the other way round? Why wait? If the body releases insulin once blood sugar levels rise doing this will run the risk of them never rising enough for natural secretion. This leads to insulin tolerance.
> 
> No disrespect meant mate but if shooting in body parts and using a pen how do you know you wont hit a cappiliary therefore speeding up absorption of the insulin? This, at a time of low BS (PWO) and especially if using Novorapid is asking for trouble.


Who said I used a pen btw? :confused1:

I use a 1" slin pin

I can name another 5 people at least who do the same, have good growth and have not had any issues at all.

Good debate maybe, but I stick to what works for me, incidentally Ive been off both for a few months now with no hassle at all.

Respect on your views, but too technical for my liking.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Five-O said:


> This is really making a mole out of a molehill.
> 
> Its really simple.
> 
> ...


Pretty much sums it up

Good post.

Gh and slin shot together IM has greater effect from my experience, and can induce site specific growth.

Plus side effects of each reduced when used in combination.

Get a blood testing monitor if worried, but after a while you should know how many carbs post workout would be enough to cover hypo...

As Jim said, not rocket science

If want rocket science explanation ask NYTOL:thumbup1:


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

You may use a pin, but someone could come along and read that and shoot with a pen IM and hit a capiliary, or a vein even, and so rapidly increase absorption times. Why do you administer insulin and then eat? Why would you wait for 15-20 mins like you state and then consume carbs? Its like standing on the railway track but jumping off right before the intercity hits you surely?

The pancreas secretes insulin in response to a rise in blood sugar levels. So you should surely eat and wait for them to rise so the pancreas releases its store of insulin. Obviously there's the onset and duration of exogenous insulin to consider with this but I cannot see one good reason to shoot, then eat. I have two good ones there to eat then shoot dont I?

I think maybe you should lower the barriers and try it my way. Ive done it yours because I thought it was right but experienced problems. If you must do PWO then you must eat first, shoot later. There will come a time when you shoot and have planned to eat but this wasnt possible. Just this chance is too much of a risk imo. How is your way more effective then and so worth the risk?


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

No time for Rocket Science, but:

Chinese GH is not 192, it is 191, all of it now, I am 99% sure.

10iu Insulin and 10iu GH Post WO, Inj IM, 3 x per week has worked wonders for me and every one else who has tried it on my advice.

Personally I take 20iu GH on Training days, and like you King Prop find that far more effective than every day admin.

I've not used insulin for a long time due to lazyness with meals and prep basically, but when I used the 2 combined in the above manner, I made exceptional gains, and expect to again when I use it.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

coco said:


> im a bit lost with the insulin with everymeal?
> 
> wont you be naturally producing low dose insulin with everymeal anyway,
> 
> whats the point in adding extra at this time? will this not just lead to supression of natural release?


If done constantly with every meal every day then very probably, yes. Which is why a EOD or mon/wed/fri type protocol is employed. Constant use of this regimen could also lead to lower insulin secretion and/or tissue desensitisation.

The oral glucose tolerance test for diagnosis of diabetes uses 75g of glucose. Any more glucose does not increase the amount of insulin secreted. There is a limit on the amount it can produce. Using high GI carbs creates a high insulin pulse, which is why in the western world now our pancreas' have run into problems as its the british way to have tea with sucrose and a biscuit, for example. Or sweets. Or refined white bread. Over time our pancreas' struggle to keep up is leading to more type two diabetes sufferers.

Lower or moderate GI load from a meal will cause a gradual sustained release which is why i would recommend waiting until the meal was well over before injecting a small amount. The very fast insulin available now like Novorapid it may prove more prudent to inject inbetween meals if keeping them modertate GI and eating every 2-3 hours and keeping doses small. 2ius added could therefore make it 20% higher than natural levels.

Insulin works, we know that but high doses need high doses of sugar. Given at times of low BS we need high doses of high GH carbs. These carbs need and move a tremendous amount of water with them. This causes bloat and intestinal problems as well as supressing amino acid uptake to the nitrogen pool.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

I think I going to have to try both and report back the results I get. Kingprop makes an excellent point on doing it at meal time and leave out the PWO shot and others are reporting excellent gains.... try and lean for myself I guess.

Nytol I cant imagine your joints felt to great using 20iu of HGH? 8iu's and winstrol and I'm fuct!

I will try find a new source for HGH and see if I get better results. Not sure how good my blue tops are?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Five-O said:


> Mate, this is my opinion, through over 1 year of use, of both only PWO.
> 
> I gain, and do not tend to gain fat, I have neither ever gone hypo whatsoever, why is it blanket dangerous advice?
> 
> ...


But how has your progress been using this protocol for the past year? Any pictures of how much you've improved?

Ive tried both regimens and found a lower dose at times of moderate/high blood sugar to be best. Side effect wise and recovery/growth wise.

If you havent tried both runs, but are simply sticking to one and one opinion having only tried one, backing this up by saying 'I know five people here that have gained on it' all Ill say is maybe you should try another one before being so sure.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> Hi Dave how you doing mate all well i hope??
> 
> can i ask why you think this?
> 
> As for the going Hypo issue i have not used slin for over 9months and i just went Hypo after getting out the shower this just shows you that if this can happen when not using slin just imagine what could happen when using slin...


Fine Paul mate thank you. Good to see you the other day. Give me a shout when you are next down in Windsor.

None of us actually know for a fact as no-one can afford to get it tested to find out but consider this:

Before operation Raw Deal we had the option of several Chinese HGH's; Jintropin first (4ius), the only factory with a licence and the technology to produce 191aa. then we had Ansomone (most will admit not as effective) then we had 8iu generic brown tops, then Hygetropin's and then generic blues and then yellows (starting at 4ius and going up to 10ius as they are, apparently, currently)

One of the biggest Chinese suppliers of 'stuff' was a guy called Leo. He was busted in Raw Deal. When the blues became available he listed them as 192aa. Then Mexite at SSB listed them as 191aa. He claimed he had evidence to prove this and so I asked him for it. It was in Chinese and I asked his to translate it. He said he couldnt but his Chinese supplier told him it was evidence to prove so. I got it translated and it didnt funnily enough.

Since Raw Deal and Genesci losing its export licence it is no longer possible to obtain Jins or Hyges (old brown tops) but only blue and yellow but these are being sold/listed as 191aa.

As no-one knows the truth, but with the evidence I saw over the time of their coming to the market coupled with the fact that internet/gym buyers know that 192aa isnt a match for human produced HGH (191aa) it would be debatable that they are 191aa. Any question therefore on what they actually are we should treat them as 192aa for the purpose of full effectiveness. You can use a 191aa in a 192aa protocol, but you cant the other way round for fear of antibody reaction. 192aa was the first synthetic HGH produced in the world in respone to CJD and real cadaver based HGH for the treatment of dwarfism. This was eventually found to be less effective for their treatment due to antibody build up and so further expense and reaserch created synthetic 191aa. Dwarfs being only a small percentage of the human population as a whole I dont believe that only 2% of the whole population would suffer this build up response.

So in conclusion it is safer and more prudent for me to assume they are 192aa. Add this to the fact that their availability hasnt changed one bit over and after operation Raw Deal, and the fact that jins, hyges and brown tops were tried by myself (as has British pharm HGH) and all gave me CTS at doses of 2-4ius ED within weeks; and that blues and yellows never have at much higher doses but have stopped being effective using an ED regimen after a while where the others didnt I believe it fair for me to err on the side of caution and use them in a protocol designed for 192aa administration which is higher doses 2-3 times each week.

Since assuming this they have been working fine at almost half the price.

http://www.somatropin.net/hgh-brands.htm

Then of course there's the fact that Kexing has a blue top........


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

king prop

i havent tried your protocol yet but i want to swap very soon i just need it all planned right in my head 1st

im currently using slin pwo and my pwo shake is wms and whey isolate, my question is i do shoot my slin with a pen sub q then i wait around 5-10mins before drinking this shake as wms is so fastly absorbed as its 90% absorbed in the intestines before it even reaches the stomach unlike all other carb sources i use. so drinking it 1st then shooting slin could cause a complete miss hit surely? the carbs will have passed and ill be left with raising insulin levels and wanting carbs to level again wouldnt i?

just want to get this right bro


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

TaintedSoul said:


> Nytol I cant imagine your joints felt to great using 20iu of HGH? 8iu's and winstrol and I'm fuct!
> 
> I will try find a new source for HGH and see if I get better results. Not sure how good my blue tops are?


For a while I had joint pain, the worst was when I 1st used GH and shot it sub q, alone.

Adding the insulin and shooting IM made a big difference to me and many others regarding joint pain, no idea why, but it happened to too many to be coincidence.

There were a good few different kinds of blues, some were noticeably worse than others, so which ones you have will make a difference.


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

does it make such a difference though with sides from gh and slin because they are effectively cancelling each other out somewhat?


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

jjb1 said:


> does it make such a difference though with sides from gh and slin because they are effectively cancelling each other out somewhat?


Did you not read the praise that I gave the combo?

If they cancelled each other out, then no sides, but no gains either.


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

yea i read it, i was reffering to the high blood levels you get from insulin and low ones you get from gh

for instance isnt it even good to keep your gh shots away from meals as they spike insulin levels slightly

just curious bro thats all


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

kingprop said:


> But how has your progress been using this protocol for the past year? Any pictures of how much you've improved?
> 
> Ive tried both regimens and found a lower dose at times of moderate/high blood sugar to be best. Side effect wise and recovery/growth wise.
> 
> If you havent tried both runs, but are simply sticking to one and one opinion having only tried one, backing this up by saying 'I know five people here that have gained on it' all Ill say is maybe you should try another one before being so sure.


I use it solely to put on size quickly, everytime I start a run with it I put on anything between 8-12lbs in the space of 2-3 weeks....

If you read my post you'll see I said *don't wait* longer than 15-20mins tops to take your shake after injecting... 

I have my shake straight after shooting, and the BOTTOM line here is; IVE NEVER, EVER gone hypo yet. But Ive NEVER shot slin on its own....ITS A TOTAL waste....IMO. Much better benefits alongside GH, and Im sure a good few ppl will attest to this on here.

Can I ask you a question.......If you are doing somethign that works.......would you chop and change it? No you wouldn't....slin/gh solely PWO works well for ME, and as I get no side effects and know how my body will react, why would I want to try taking slin multiple times per day, IMO, that is asking to become reliant IMO.

Ive just re-read also and seen you've tried it this way but had problems, what problems did you encounter? I know of no-one who has had anything to really worry about by utilising gh/slin PWO....

I haven't tried your way, maybe when Ive more time to sit injecting whilst at work b4 my meals...I might, no pun there but Ill wager my gains would be the same doing it PWO than shooting a few times a day b4 meals, coupled with the fact that it is kinda awkward if you work allday.

A few times per week is enough for me, I will say fair play to you because you've pushed the boundaries and tried a few methods, but like you say, you had probs with PWO utilisation, but on the other hand I didn't....so Im happy to use like that.

As for someoen coming along and injecting with a pen, well if they come to those conclusions then Im sorry but if they are big enough to mess with insulin, they are big enough to look after their own ar$es, uncle Jim cannot be blamed for everything.


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

just read the first post again am i right in thinking you have 100 units in a 3ml pen .

because i use them and its 100 units per ml so you have 300 units in that pen.

just checking for your safty ,if you are unsure or ive miss understood your post double check on there web site it clearly says 1 ml is 100 units .

gh slin mix does work pwo and as five o says it bluntens the hit but you still cant escape the fact that 1 shake and 1 meal is feeding the slin ive done the same and gone up to 20 units mixed with gh i needed 100g glucoes powder in the pwo shake and had to eat bang on 1 hour after or i was out of it .

so i backed off to 10 units.

ive done after breakfast 20 units after dinner 20units and pwo 20units fullest ive ever been but got caught with the over lap in the evennings .

in the last few years ive done gh,sline after breafast 10 units and gh sline 10 units pwo.

but no sline this year as i have been dietting most of it ,but now thats out the way .

ive completed 1 week of 2units after 6 of my meals checked my blood sugar 6 times on day one never went out of range .

always got my tester and glucose tabs with me every where i go to be safe.

so im not saying one way is better than another but time will tell but ive done alot of combos over the last 5 years ,im not dissing anyones protacol but if you dont try you dont no play safe.


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## musclemorpheus (Sep 29, 2005)

Adrian one quick question if you have a 3ml pen how long will this last you, I heard somewhere that once start using it will only last a month..

also Adrian how many days are week are you taking this..R U following King props routine of monday, wed and friday routine?

Just a few questions

I am thinking a lot about doing this..


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

i only use sline on trainning days and that 5 days on and weekends off at the moment .

ive only ever used it on trainning days for the last 5 years and blood sugar has normalised each time as i said i have not touched sline for 37 weeks this year.

i have about a month off it between cycles to rest from it but as you have seen in the past i prity much abused it.

one thing i can say so far is the pump in my work outs is imence ,there is a degree of rebound from dietting but time will tell its early days with this yet.

no gear for me for a while now so this is slin and food plus 3iu of gh morniing and night week days only but some guys have some interesting aproaches on that so that side may change.

one thing i would say to everybody what ever protacol you choose to give a go, get a blood sugar tester and some glucose tabs ,20 quid should cover that .


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Five-O said:


> I use it solely to put on size quickly, everytime I start a run with it I put on anything between 8-12lbs in the space of 2-3 weeks....
> 
> If you read my post you'll see I said *don't wait* longer than 15-20mins tops to take your shake after injecting...


Yes mate I knew thats what you meant. My question was why? Whats the thought behind the time frame? Why do you recommend 'shoot, then eat' even? Whats the logic behind this?

As apposed to eat then shoot??

Like ive said this is a recipe for disaster. Maybe not for you, but someone else reading this and following it might not be so smart and one day shoot and perhaps the mobile goes off and you get engaged in a call that goes on a bit and forget to eat. Just this very risk says that logic should be, in your protocol, eat/drink then shoot surely?

Why the other way round?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Five-O said:


> It might even shock you to know I have shot slin/gh, had a shake and then gone possibly 5 hours without a meal.....shocking? who gives a fvck...GH blunts the ability of going hypo with slin, ask how many ppl on here have had issues with going hypo compared to hw many have done by taking slin solely on its own.


No it doesnt shock me. I have to question it though with what went wrong? If the GH blunted the ability of going hypo how did it do this? Either it cancelled out its actions, or it did its job of lowering your BS but the symptoms of hypo werent evident then? Sounds very dangerous if the latter and a complete waist of decent hormones if the former.

Unless you have another explanation?


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

jjb1 said:


> king prop
> 
> i havent tried your protocol yet but i want to swap very soon i just need it all planned right in my head 1st
> 
> ...


sorry for quouting my own post but i imagine five o's thought work with something like i mention here^^^^


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Five-O said:


> Can I ask you a question.......If you are doing somethign that works.......would you chop and change it? No you wouldn't


Well I would question that it may not be the only way. There could be a better, safer, more cost effective way. Im always questioning and looking for a safer way with everything I put into my body having done the 'jump on the bandwagon' thing because it works for him or him.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Five-O said:


> I use it solely to put on size quickly, everytime I start a run with it I put on anything between 8-12lbs in the space of 2-3 weeks....
> 
> Ive just re-read also and seen you've tried it this way but had problems, what problems did you encounter? I know of no-one who has had anything to really worry about by utilising gh/slin PWO....


Same as you by the sounds of it. Huge weight gain too quickly. As its physiologically impossible to lay down this much muscle in 2-3 weeks mine too was WATER RETENTION which caused a rise in blood pressure, stomach bloating and digestion problems.

But of course if yours wasnt water it must have been muscle (or fat from too much sugar?) If it was muscle, and you employed this protocol for 1 year you must be massive mate??


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

And like ive said before this is a simple debate on the subject. IMO PWO insulin does not do what you think it does (shuttle more nutrients) because you have a naturally produced time PWO where this happens anyway. If this could be increased then 30ius of insulin (and 30ius of HGH if employing your both together combo) would mean even more nutrients? Jeez, we could all be so much bigger then?

If the PWO window lasts for an hour or so then use it to its fullest. Then with next meal you could extend it with insulin. Use insulin very sparingly and lightly throughout the next day (2-3 times) then you have an increased uptake away from the window you created by training hard. Employ this for only the day after your worst body parts 2-3 times each week to prevent insulin tolerance. Im using less insulin in total than you, and less HGH. Plus for me anyway im finding it more effective than the PWO protocol.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

jjb1 said:


> king prop
> 
> i havent tried your protocol yet but i want to swap very soon i just need it all planned right in my head 1st
> 
> ...


Mouth - stomach (gut) - small inestines - large intestines - Out.

From Myprotein:

Vitargo® has a larger molecule size than sugars (e.g. glucose, fructose, sucrose and maltodextrin) found in ordinary energy and recovery drinks. Vitargo®'s larger size minimises its osmolality, which refers to how much water it draws. Vitargo®'s low osmolality allows it to move through the stomach 2 times faster than other carbohydrates which tend to act more like a sponge in the stomach. Spending less time in the stomach allows Vitargo® to be absorbed faster, providing a near instant surge of energy into the working muscles, far superior to other carbohydrates. After training or competition Vitargo® recovers glycogen 68% faster allowing for an increase in performance of up to 23% after just two hours, when compared to carbohydrates found in ordinary sport drinks.

Well, the speed is desirable for PWO nutrition with the isolate. Neck it. Use natural secretion of insulin and rebound of PWO state.

23% after two hours in increased performance would possibly mean better glycogen replenishment? Using further nutrition (PWO meal) and exogenous insulin an hour after finishing the gym would extend the window (peak duration of insulin 1-3 hours) Less insulin would be needed and less sugar would need to be consumed imho. More nutrients would be taken up as there hasnt been a massive rush of sugar and insulin as there would be with 'all used PWO' protocols.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Bloody hell Kingprop..lol...you left me a lot to answer there!

Ok, erm...righty ho, when I gain quickly off it, I know its nearly all 98% glycogen and water, well placed water, but nonetheless, not muscle, Im not naive enough to think its really muscle, but its nice to fill out I must say, and works a treat.

I like to take it PWO because thats when our bodies have been drained off amino's, nutrients and glycogen, perfect time to replenish those and force amino's into the cells..IMO....if we fil out on slin, then its obvious it transports nutrients into muscle cells, so why not enhance the effects by throwing protein and gh into the mix for recovery, and site enhancement?

I like how it works for me, and countless others, who haven't really said much in here tbh, but Im not really prepared, nor have the time to try the slin multiple times per day, if that works for you mate, then thats good, im sure soon ill get the chance to try it out.

Im not sure why im trying to justify it tbh, because I do know it works and many others do too, pop over to my board and we'd be pleased to see your finding in more depth on the multiple slin shots mate, good discussion


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

kingprop said:


> Fine Paul mate thank you. Good to see you the other day. Give me a shout when you are next down in Windsor.


will do mate...



kingprop said:


> Before operation Raw Deal we had the option of several Chinese HGH's; Jintropin first (4ius), the only factory with a licence and the technology to produce 191aa.


Gensci lost this patent a few yrs ago Dave, yet why would a patent stop a lab producing GH? Gropep has the patent for IGF-1LR3 yest you can get plenty other brands which do work....



kingprop said:


> Since Raw Deal and Genesci losing its export licence it is no longer possible to obtain Jins or Hyges (old brown tops) but only blue and yellow but these are being sold/listed as 191aa.


this is not true Dave you can obtain Hyges why wouldn't you? as they are a different setup to Jintropin....but they definatly available mate

As for if something is 192 or 191 to be fair i take no notice anymore as no one knows and the fact that producing 191aa is no more expensive than producing 192aa you have to ask what is gained by doing so...but this is like when GenSci said Ansomone was 192aa without providing any proof what so ever yet everyone wanted proof they was 191aa....


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Nice one mate.

Ok so Hyge's are still available, great. Im happy they are 191aa. The effects for me were the same as jins and UK nordi's. 2-4ius and it hits me like a ton of bricks.

I know you can't get Jins anymore as a good friend of mine who had delt driectly with the factory for years was ripped off on his last order at the time the whole thing went pear shaped. They took his money and then never replied to him.

Im sure there is a cost difference in the production of either 191aa or 192aa and will ask a very good friend of mine who will know.

But what I do know is that the cost of the blues and yellows available from China hasnt changed at all yet the price on the street here has. They now cost as much as Jins did per 100ius, and i know we cant talk price here but some guys are quadrupling their money which isnt fair especially if they do prove to be 192aa.

Also question this... The seizures of the blues and yellows coming into the UK are zero, I know of no-one losing any or even being questioned on any. There is no pharm equivalent available in the UK (192aa) so this kind of backs me up. I guess as they are labelless this helps some. Are Hyge's coming in with labels attached?

The dosing of guys on the boards has increased when using blues and yellows. 10ius here ED, 20ius 3xW, these are serious doses and yet little to no sides. 20ius of norditropin would surely bring on some sides? 6ius crippled me and I couldnt sleep properly until i lowered it. My mate Andre who you met also had the same sides on Jins and brown tops but on the blues he's fine at twice the dose.

There is also a very well know supplier on the internet out of China. The longest running supplier from there. You will know who I mean. Works on a board from the US that begins with 'A' He used to sell blue tops and listed them on his 'page' as 191aa. He also writes next to the price 'If you can beat my price with any other legit supplier I will match it'

So, a friend of mine who had been getting yellow tops direct from the factory but couldnt any more as the factory were putting 'Constrained goods' stickers on the outside of the box and they were getting opened but not seized, just charged with VAT; emailed him and asked for a price match.

He replied that the yellows were 192aa, not 191aa as his blues were and so couldnt.

He now sells yellows instead and lists them as 191aa. ??

At the end of the day it is just a colour of the top. A top very easy to change with a different colour flip off top also very easy to obtain. If different factorys and different technologies are being used why would they (Chinese) use the same colour top?

Could it be that the Chinese sources who sell these items are simply agents who can write and speak English, and simply go to (or know) someone in the Kexing Factory that can let some out the back door?

There is simply too much evidence for my assumption, and not enough evidence to change my mind yet. Im still paying a tiny price for my blues and am actually happier with 192aa (if they are so) as the sides of 191aa were just too much.

Sorry for taking off topic from the insulin question.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

adrian said:


> just read the first post again am i right in thinking you have 100 units in a 3ml pen .
> 
> because i use them and its 100 units per ml so you have 300 units in that pen.
> 
> just checking for your safty


Well spotted mate. Yeah it's 100iu/ml. So it's 300iu's all together. I see the typo I had there. I measured friday 2 iu on the syringe as 2iu's.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Can anyone shed light on how you would transport this to work and back? Dont think leaving it in the work fridge is a good idea.

Can it go from the fridge in the morning, in my bag and then back in fridge when I get home?


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Insulin doesnt need to be constantly refridgerated. Only for storage. A diabetic would keep the pen on him/her at all times. They would use the whole lot up in three weeks or so but my father-in-law keeps all his just in a cupboard. Its very stable and only extremes of temperatures effects it like if stored in direct sunlight. Just keep in gym bag mate or on yourself. Be careful when someone asks to borrow your pen though...lol


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

between 2and 8 degrees i dont frdge mine mate like prop says .

im at 4ius 10 mins after my first 5 meals and 10 mins after my tea.

none pwo jusy 40g whey 50g glucose and 100g ground oats shake.

no hypos blood sugar is checking out between 5 and 7 has been bellow 5 at 6 in the morning before my breakfast but soon jumps up after meal number 1.

so thats 24 units in total spread evenly .


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

adrian said:


> between 2and 8 degrees i dont frdge mine mate like prop says .
> 
> im at 4ius 10 mins after my first 5 meals and 10 mins after my tea.
> 
> ...


So you now shooting lower iu's after meals and no PWO shots like before when I think I read 20iu's PWO!!! on top of the 20iu's with a meal and 10iu in the evening. that was 30iu's in a day whne you had trouble with it right?

Is it too early to tell but how are you finding the lower dose spread over your meals and no PWO shot?


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

ok im doing lower ius after meals and no pwo shot.

findings, less bloat but still full muscles and very vasculare baring in mind no gear just show rebound from 3 weeks ago but thats settled down now.

first week i did 2ius after meals.

ive monitured my blood mornning before bed and before trainning slightly low frist thing but between 5 and 7 all through the day .

now i was concerened as my last day time meal is 1 hour before i train but ive had 4ius i hour before my workout which was a 30 set leg setion checked my blood sugar imidiatly before trainning ,it was 6. 1hour 15 mins legs pwo drink no sline just the glucose to create the natural sline responce ,tea 1 hour later last sline shot after and that your lot.

ok in the past like 5 years ago i did 3 x 20 after breakfast and dinner and pwo

felt **** sleepy most of the time and ate so much in the evenning i looked pregnant ,not good ,

for few years 10 ius after breakfast and 10 ius pwo shake ,1 hour later meal ,felt safe no problems .

most recently i have mixed 3ius gh with 10 sline after breakfast and pwo ,i would agree it blunts the hit a little but not alot in me personaly espetialy pwo ,i would not dare eat later than 1 hour personaly.

ok here we go so far im 18 stone in the morning and 18.6 in the evenning and now the water has gone from show re bound im happy with the way i look .

the results will be interesting when i incorperate this with some gear but that wont be for a long time as im having a break and me blood done.

now all i say is personal experiance and not the right way or wrong i respect all of your different ways .im just experimenting a little.


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## musclemorpheus (Sep 29, 2005)

so Adrian for your meals how much carbs are you taking per sitting just a rough amount say 1 chicken breast with rice,baked potato, pasta etc...

just wondering how much a serving if you up to 4iu's a sitting..

is this the maximum amount you will take, similar to Kingprop.. ie if it isn't broke don't try to fix it...


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

ok get ready

meal 1 at 6am 200g oatmeal and chop 2 scoops of whey and a bannaner

meal 2 at 8am 200g oatmeal 2scoops of wheyand a bannaner

meal 3 at 11.00 am 130g rice (dry weight) 225g turkey 1 apple and a bannaner.

meal 4 at 1.30 pm 130g rice 225g turkey 1apple and bannaner

meal 5 at 4.00 pm 130g rice 225g turkey 1apple and bannaner

4ius of slin after all of thoes meals

train at 5.30 pm

7.00 pm after work out shake 100g fine oats 2 scoops whey 50g glucoes.

8.00pm 100g rice 250g lean red meat veg.

last shot of 4ius sline.

10.00 pm 2 wholegrain pittas with 250g red meat and vegs.

maybe home made oat cake or flat jacks if i feel like it.

thats alot of food but im a ectomorph hard gainner and if i dont eat i dont grow.

your looking at 500g protien 1000 carbs and 100 to 150 fats.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Adrian... have you thought of having a banana with your meals?

How come you eating so manys bananas? (bannaner = banana ???)


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

adrian said:


> ok get ready
> 
> meal 1 at 6am 200g oatmeal and chop 2 scoops of whey and a bannaner
> 
> ...


what is a bannaner?


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

ok not for the first time on here, i cant spell nor am i very good on computers.

ok if i take the fruit out i found my blood sugar a bit low no hypo but i wanted to keep it between 5 and 7 .

i dont want to hypo then hit lucasade or glucoes tabs sending my blood sugar god knows where.

just a steady flow of quality food and blood sugar level.

i do eat 5 bananas and 3 apples a day, veg with my evenning meals and 5 litres of water a day that cant be bad.

oh the bananas are eaten with each of the first 5 meals.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Well I'm currently doing 2iu with my meals to see how that goes. I cant try the PWO as it's not convienent with my job travelling back to work and trying to make the hour later meal.

So currently I'm shooting 2iu with my meals at 11:30, 18:00 and 21:00. And this will be done on mon, wed, thurs and fri.

Been sticking the slin needle into the penfill till I get my Insulin Pen. I couldnt wait but have two more to use on that when it arrives.

Will report back how things are going each week.


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## Dragon555 (May 27, 2008)

TaintedSoul said:


> Well I'm currently doing 2iu with my meals to see how that goes. I cant try the PWO as it's not convienent with my job travelling back to work and trying to make the hour later meal.
> 
> So currently I'm shooting 2iu with my meals at 11:30, 18:00 and 21:00. And this will be done on mon, wed, thurs and fri.
> 
> ...


please do mate it will be good to see how you got on with this method. :thumb: also what time do you go to bed?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

definatly keep us informed mate


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Dragon555 said:


> please do mate it will be good to see how you got on with this method. :thumb: also what time do you go to bed?


I generally go to bed at 12am. So there is about 2 1/2 hours after last jab. I also have a my last shake before bed which is about 2 hours after the last meal.

Weight this week is 105kg's in the morning.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Was wondering.........

If you eating 6 times a day, that's 6 times a day the body has to produce insulin to work whereas your normal human being normally eats 3 meals at most (breakfast, lunch, supper) some dont even eat 3.

So supplementing with insulin 3 out of the 6 meals a day that I am currently doing. Doesnt this actually give the body a break? So basically is that not good in a way?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

TaintedSoul said:


> Was wondering.........
> 
> If you eating 6 times a day, that's 6 times a day the body has to produce insulin to work whereas your normal human being normally eats 3 meals at most (breakfast, lunch, supper) some dont even eat 3.
> 
> So supplementing with insulin 3 out of the 6 meals a day that I am currently doing. Doesnt this actually give the body a break? So basically is that not good in a way?


It will possibly ease stress on the pancreas by not having it produce as much/any, whereas with test we get shut down from supplementing, I don't think this is the case with slin and the pancreas.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TaintedSoul said:


> Was wondering.........
> 
> If you eating 6 times a day, that's 6 times a day the body has to produce insulin to work whereas your normal human being normally eats 3 meals at most (breakfast, lunch, supper) some dont even eat 3.
> 
> So supplementing with insulin 3 out of the 6 meals a day that I am currently doing. Doesnt this actually give the body a break? So basically is that not good in a way?


Will be fine doing that mate

Some people with sh1t diets etc only eat 1 or 2 times a day anyway..


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Weight this morning was 104kg's. Weird, gone downa kg I think?? I have upped cardio though and started back on the first thing morning cardio on a saturday empty stomach (10grams of protein powder)

I have found I am pushing more and not getting fatigue so easily. Chest feel really pumped lately though and there is a general fullness all round..... love it!

Trying 3 iu's per meal this week for 3 meals a day. I have glucose tablets located every place I generally sit after a shot... better safe than sleepy I guess!!


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Its weird how you've lost a little, I do nothing but fill up when on it.

I still like my approach PWO better but im keeping an eye on your results.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Five-O said:


> Its weird how you've lost a little, I do nothing but fill up when on it.
> 
> I still like my approach PWO better but im keeping an eye on your results.


I have cleaned diet up a little and going back to a cheat day only. When I get slack I have a cheat weekend! :thumb:

Cardio has also increased a fair bit on workout days and and intense hour on saturdays. Somehow managed 4000 metres rowing in 16minutes saturday.

Going to weigh friday and then check results. Then switch to PWO and see how that goes for two weeks.


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## Dragon555 (May 27, 2008)

well done on diet bro! you had any hypo problems at all?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

TaintedSoul said:


> I have cleaned diet up a little and going back to a cheat day only. When I get slack I have a cheat weekend! :thumb:
> 
> Cardio has also increased a fair bit on workout days and and intense hour on saturdays. Somehow managed 4000 metres rowing in 16minutes saturday.
> 
> Going to weigh friday and then check results. Then switch to PWO and see how that goes for two weeks.


 :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Dragon555 said:


> well done on diet bro! you had any hypo problems at all?


Not at all but I'd say I'm starting very low compared to others that normally start on 4iu's a time. I do also weigh around 104kg's so 3iu is not alot for my weight.


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## adrian1436114556 (Mar 27, 2008)

intersting results tainted soul.

im at 4ius 6 times a day i have complete confidence in this now no hypos at all even take a little nap in between my morning meals after sline shots.

as far as weight goes 18.02 in the morning and 18.07 before bed.

if i was totaly clean i would probably be about 18 and not very full plus soft .

im fuller and good pumps in the gym .

why not have a pwo shot and the after meal ones as well ,just an idea.

still not having the pwo shot at the mo.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Good suggestion Adrian. Two weeks isnt enough to establish any real time results id imagine, and I have nothing against PWO shots other than the amount guys take and then the problems they have with the need to cane loads of simple sugars to combat them. The most you can keep away from simple sugars the less water + bodyfat you will gain imho.

I got this passage from basskilleronline....

INSULIN AND CREATINE

These compounds may have an anti-synergistic effect on each other, meaning that the combined effect is less than the sum of the individual effects. This possibility exists due to both components' ability to store water in muscle cells. If only a certain amount of water can be stored in the cells through each mechanism of action, then the anti-synergistic condition would exist. Although this condition is unlikely, it is worth mentioning for future experimentation purposes (lab rats know where to contact me). One definite advantage of this combination is that creatine is best absorbed by the muscles when insulin serum levels are high, insuring maximum effectiveness. BTW-if one is not doing something as fundamental as using creatine, there is no way they should be using insulin (so basically insulin use requires creatine use).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, bear with me on this. As he describes there is only so much one can uptake in the window of opportunity, which is the reasoning for me to have doubt with huge doses insulin PWO. Maybe there is an anti-synergistic action by using >8-10ius slin alongside natural secretion? It would explain the bloating/distention and digestion problems I had.

I understand peoples thinking behind using PWO, but many of them are going too high too quick and relying on high doses of sugar to combat hypos.

Ill go out on a limb here and state what I believe to be true:

PWO use of insulin should be very gradually increased from a low dose start. The very minimum of insulin dose should be sought in comparison to effects. More is not better with insulin but I appreciate that some think more = more nutrients stored PWO. Actually more may = more sugar (and so water) stored, to the detriment of amino acids.

PWO hypos may occur if incorrect injection protocols are followed leading to high doses of high GI carbs that can impair protein uptake and increase water retention leading to further problems.

Incorrect injection protocols like 'inject then eat' can leave a situation at risk of occuring whereby insulin tolerance is greatly enhanced. 'Inject then wait for the hypo before eating' is the worst of them all and will lead to insulin tolerance even quicker. It is the fast track way to diabetes and the fast track way to death.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ill update sticky on insulin now with my results so far.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Sorry, want to add to this as i dont want to come over as pompous or anything. Obviously in the absence of any scientific study this is all heresay but what I hope to achieve, if anything, is that the topic of insulin usage in us guys should be open to debate so much more so than steroids or growth or even IGF. The immediate consequences can be catastrophic and not only for us but those around us.

All im hoping to achieve then is really a topic of discussion where we could feasible lower the doses of insulin than those posted around open forums, especially at times of administration where BS is low. Especially for those considering its use. To come to a forum and see a big guy on 4g of test per week is understandably curious for us wanting to achieve the same 'look'

4g of test wont kill you though. 10ius of insulin could. Or put us into a coma where we swallow our tongues. Mess up on 2-4ius and the body has the ability to liberate what it requires from triglycerides and BCAAs to cope imo. Take it after you've eaten also has to be less risky too then surely.

Open to further debate guys please. At very least we can compile benefits to risk factors, users pros and cons, other things to consider, personal experiences, science behind insulin use in the non-diabetic (sure as hell Lilly wont fund a study like that will they?)

With insulin use for BB'ers it requires more debate and research I think. After all we could stumble on something that made Cutler, Ruhl and Ronnie so big.

And Nasser.

Think of it like this, with insulin so readily available and very very cheap if there was a protocol that worked as good as gear or even better without fear of dying would you hope this to filter down the line through the steroid dealers? the successfull competitor?

Just a ramble, sorry TS.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

kingprop said:


> With insulin use for BB'ers it requires more debate and research I think. After all we could stumble on something that made Cutler, *Ruhl *and Ronnie so big.
> 
> And Nasser.
> 
> ...


I heard 100iu long acting in morn and 25iu fast acting every meal...

I know this is achievable as my sis is diabetic, usually uses 8-12iu to regulate at meal times...

When was pregant and hormones all over shop she had to shoot 60iu just to be normal-ish


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Thats a cray amount of slin! ^

I've been using 8iu am and pwo training days only and getting some great sie gains insulin is king


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

jw007 said:


> *I heard 100iu long acting in morn and 25iu fast acting every meal...*
> 
> I know this is achievable as my sis is diabetic, usually uses 8-12iu to regulate at meal times...
> 
> When was pregant and hormones all over shop she had to shoot 60iu just to be normal-ish


Wogi worked upto 45iu per day... (3x15iu)

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/32545-insulin-anabolic-cycle.html


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

MXD said:


> Thats a cray amount of slin! ^
> 
> I've been using 8iu am and pwo training days only and getting some great sie gains insulin is king


Gotta do what gotta do

What your currently doing is the way i made my best gains with slin years ago:thumbup1:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TH&S said:


> Wogi worked upto 45iu per day... (3x15iu)
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/32545-insulin-anabolic-cycle.html


You can easily become resitant to it if use all time, build up to mega doses if so wished.....

Same with anything tho i suppose


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Awww thats awesome... I wanna be just like Jw! <3  x

Gram of tren anyone?:laugh:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

MXD said:


> Awww thats awesome... I wanna be just like Jw! <3  x
> 
> *Gram of tren anyone?*:laugh:


PU55Y, is that all:lol: :lol: :lol:

xx


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

kingprop said:


> Just a ramble, sorry TS.


Dont be sorry mate, please carry on the stage is yours and the debate is wide open for everyone to join in. You have been an incredible contribution to this thread and others.

I think this above all others as you say needs open discussion due to the high risks involved if you mess up or go hypo and cant get out of it there is no PCT to repair. My mate asked about it yesterday and I said it's not for him stay away as he cant even put effort into his diet or PCT.

Today I took with breakfast (glucose lined up ready), after next meal and after gym pwo with shake and then ate hour later. They are all went smoothly. I left the rest of the meals out purely cause I feel surely the pancreas needs to have a chance to do it's normal thing to keep sides at bay?

I find the PWO shot a pain and probably wont do it once back at work. I will end up shooting at the gym, getting to work and something will keep me distracted from eating again hour after last shot.

I know you said a few posts back two weeks is not enough to see results. But either I'm burning fat at the same time or I am not gaining weight. I'm still around the 104-104.5kg mark. I would be happy with .5 kg a week if that is possible? Or should I be expecting perhaps .5lbs.

Will weigh tomorrow first thing in the morning and report back weight so I can keep track of it here.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

MXD said:


> Thats a cray amount of slin! ^
> 
> I've been using 8iu am and pwo training days only and getting some great sie gains insulin is king


I'll work my way up slowly enjoying the scenery.



jw007 said:


> You can easily become resitant to it if use all time, build up to mega doses if so wished.....
> 
> Same with anything tho i suppose


Hence the need to cycle it like anything perhaps? What's the agreed thought on that. 6on/2of... 6on/6off??



TH&S said:


> Wogi worked upto 45iu per day... (3x15iu)
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/32545-insulin-anabolic-cycle.html


Where id he end up. Enjoyed his posts and wanted to see how he got on with his insulin use/abuse.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

TaintedSoul said:


> I'll work my way up slowly enjoying the scenery.
> 
> Hence the need to cycle it like anything perhaps? What's the agreed thought on that. 6on/2of... 6on/6off??


I just use training days, so normally would be 4 times a week.

Are you using aas with it?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

jw007 said:


> I just use training days, so normally would be 4 times a week.
> 
> Are you using aas with it?


Not yet, mid December till end of March my course starts. Currently also training days so 4 times a week myself.


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## musclemorpheus (Sep 29, 2005)

Kingprop your knowledge is valuable you make perfect sense to me...

why O why would you want to blow up to 10-15lbs in a couple of weeks..when all it is is water and fat...

your way makes sense you are utilizing every meal to the max to get the nutrients into the muscle...

I have now got my hands on some insulin, and I will use a similar protocol to you as it's relatively safe... and the gains speak for themselves....

but I am not gonna rush into this I have a lot more reading first and I am gonna wait for the right time...

I am not a newbie regarding insulin I used to be the PWO 10iu's... but your ideas have changed my mind....

I am off to egypt in 5 weeks for a week in the sun and rest and relaxation... and some goodies...then get christmas out of the way and start of new year..

then is when I will start.. I have 300iu's of HGH to go with this and will have a strong test base...gonna just keep topping up the Growth want to stay on continuous for at least 12 month...

so plan to grow, grow, grow.. I am presently weigh in at 112kg...so want to keep going and then hit it big in new year..

all you guys inspire me.....


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## martin1436114509 (Dec 9, 2005)

just started using slin this past week at 4iu PWO. after reading some of kingprops posts believe i will be better off utilising the windows at meal times too.

just after a bit of advice regarding timing. during the week i train at night so the days i have chose to do insulin through the week i will have ample time between shot and training.

on a sunday i was looking to shoot at meal 1 then train 2 hours later would this approach be ok. then have pwo shot with drink

advice would be greatly appreciated


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

A very interesting debate

I've used slin in a variety of methods.

After my op in Feb I used a pre and post workout dosing schedule to regain the muscle I lost while off training. Gained muscel back and then some but was always very tired in the evening possibly from the slin. I used GH as well with the slin shots and IMO didnt do anything but benefit me.

I dont like the idea of slin shots with each meal as why would you need a fast shuttling of the nutrients at a time when you arent in an anabolic environment. Also too many shots during the day increase the risk of diabetes IMO.

I'd prefer to keep my insulin use to Workout time when I actually need a fast shuttling of nutrients.

I do my shot 20 minutes before my PWO drink and I can eat a meal an hour later cos I know my blood sugar will drop again at this time.

For me the 2 meals PWO are the most important if you are looking to gain muscle. Over the years I've never had more muscle growth than by using this protocol.

I can see the argument for using slin in small doses with each meal but I think its not warranted unless you are at a high level and maybe training twice a day in which case you'd need more rapid replenishment of nutrients.

For an every day guy (me included) that trains after work and maybe does some cardio in the morning before work I dont think its the best course of action.

But thats only my opinion, lots of arguments to the contrary here and a lot of informed discussion.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Tinytom said:


> A very interesting debate
> 
> I've used slin in a variety of methods.
> 
> ...


Good post, I think these are valid points (highlighted)


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

My concern is the regular shots leading to diabetes? But currently doing it on 4 days, 2 on,1 off, 2on, 2off.

And plan to have a break after a couple of weeks.


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## musclemorpheus (Sep 29, 2005)

*I actually need a fast shuttling of nutrients*

but like Kingprop says your body naturally does this after your workout (window of opportunity)

Kingprop naturally does his way to extend this window... but if Taking AAS you want your body in a positive nitrogen balance throughout the day...so isn't kingprops protocol trying to make the most of this by taking insulin which is anabolic in itself with a couple of meals on his training days...to maximize anabolism......

He doesn't use this protocol everyday....so he feels he can extend it's useful life - it does make a lot of sense.. and it is working for him..


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Well its a bit different for gear as you are looking to create a positive nitrogen balance all day long for anabolism.

If you shuttle nutrients when you dont need them the body will simply turn them to fat for later use.

Around workout time is when you want to get the nutrients in fast as thats one time when nothing will be stored as fat because there is such a massive deficit of energy and aminos.

I dont subscribe to the view that 'the body will be storing anyway so no need to use slin' cos if you follow that protocol then you would never need to use gear as the body manufacturers it in response to exercise etc anyway.'

Maximising the windows is my philosophy

Thats my view anyway. Like I said I can see both sides.


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

i mentioned maximizing the post work out window before i think your right bro

for instance yes your body would have a slight natural window but to consume (example) 100g carbs 52g pro then 1 hour after 75g carbs 55g pro surely this is alot for a natural window

and with or with out slin i think eating 45m - 60m after a shake is important post work out

for me slin shots pwo seem to make the meal following easier work with out slin it bloats me big time and i dont really eat huge meals up to some i dont think

this thread is really interesting but im still convinced slin has a place post w o


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Reading this thread with interest i must say as Kingprops theory makes a bit of sense, but again i can still see the arguement that the natural spike pos workout isnt sufficient enough for a good shuttleing of nutrients the slin with the next PWO MEAL...

One question i have for Kingprop and i guess those in the know and i apologise if its been answered, but if one is to do only 4iu subQ with a meal as opposed to with a shake and then a further meal for the the 2nd hit an hour or so later, would it not be more bneficial to take the 4iu IM with the meal as its more faster acting if im right and therefore avoids to a degree the 2nd hit an hour later and makes better use of the nutrients from that meal...does that make sense???

Il try to summarise it here:-

Regular way Slin SubQ and drink, 1hr later meal. Same as PWO--SLIN SubQ AND DRINK, 1HR later a meal

Kingprops protocol:-

Meal 1 and slin SubQ no drink...... next meal when slin due, eg meal 3..meal and slin SubQ......So would it not be better to have it IMwith the meal?????


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

IM shots slow the release rate some muscle better than others but sub q is quicker bro


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

jjb1 said:


> IM shots slow the release rate some muscle better than others but sub q is quicker bro


Hmmm, i thought id read that IM shots sped the release of insulin and the hit was like 10mins as opposed to 1hr and perhaps negated the requirement of say a protein/simple sugars drink followed by a good clean meal an hour or so later as one got almost an immediate insulin hit...

I'll have to go back and re read somewhere...purely of interest purposes...what a mine field this topic is but utterley interesting...


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

BRABUS said:


> Kingprops protocol:-
> 
> Meal 1 and slin SubQ no drink...... next meal when slin due, eg meal 3..meal and slin SubQ......So would it not be better to have it IMwith the meal?????


Meal one and insulin without a drink/food? Dont think so mate. Meal one for me is the grab and run one. Meal two is when I use insulin, and yes IM would be more appropriate as it would hit faster than sub-q. Slight problem I have is I got a Humalog pen, so IM delt shots may not actually be proper IM as the needles tiny; plus I want my BS level to rise before insulin starts working. If I go IM and hit a vein/capilliary (I cant aspirate with a pen system) it would hit faster still. I believe when BS levels dont rise properly to influence the pancreas naturally, when insulin is being used too, it can lead to a tolerance/resistance faster.

PWO meal or evening meal this could be a better option though, once a lot of food has been consumed, with regards to clearance in time for sleep. I dont have a massive problem with it really. PWO though id advise caution, especially before drinking shake.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Well I think I had my first hypo today... not nice at all.

I was coming back from work and getting near to my station. Was holding my movie player and noticed my hand was a little jittery. Then the train stopped and I got up to get out and then things got really cloudy and felt almost drunk. Immediately dropped bag, open top puch and grabbed the lucozade tablet and munched one, managed to get off train looking normalish and then things came right.

My fault as as I didnt eat enough carbs with my 6pm meal. Fortunately I have Lucozade tablets on hand everywhere I sit and in my bag for such an event.

Well atleast it confirms that insulin is real. Was starting to think it isnt as I'm not seeing any gains. Well I do feel fuller that's for sure, mirror tells me a different story but the scale is still about 104kg's in the morning? Perhaps results with insulin on it's own are not that impressive?

Doing 5iu's with breakfast, lunch and PWO. Workouts seem better though and last longer on the reps and pushing more weight in some areas?


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

kingprop said:


> Meal one and insulin without a drink/food? Dont think so mate. Meal one for me is the grab and run one. Meal two is when I use insulin, and yes IM would be more appropriate as it would hit faster than sub-q. Slight problem I have is I got a Humalog pen, so IM delt shots may not actually be proper IM as the needles tiny; plus I want my BS level to rise before insulin starts working. If I go IM and hit a vein/capilliary (I cant aspirate with a pen system) it would hit faster still. I believe when BS levels dont rise properly to influence the pancreas naturally, when insulin is being used too, it can lead to a tolerance/resistance faster.
> 
> PWO meal or evening meal this could be a better option though, once a lot of food has been consumed, with regards to clearance in time for sleep. I dont have a massive problem with it really. PWO though id advise caution, especially before drinking shake.


Thats what i meant KP, and i was actualy thinking the same as you re IM for a faster response when late or lots of fod consumed..

Whats your views on just using slow releasing slin twice daily to allow nutrients to be shuttled in all day. This has been suggested to me as a safer way, ie less chance of collapsing or diabetes and not getting a distended stomach???


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

In my opinion im not convinced about long acting insulin for us lot. It cant be a safer way of doing it at all, surely?. If our own pancreas will release in response to a rise in BS, and we're taking a slow acting slin that has 'peaks' throught the day then surely we run the risk of our own BS not rising to any appreciable level to encourage natural release?

This looks like a faster way to insulin tolerance and diabetes.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

So then fast acting, taken after meal is eaten not before and only training days should "hopefully" minimise the risk as we allowing the body to respond to the food and we just adding to that?

KingProp do you think it's worthwhile doing insulin when not on a cycle. I'm thinking of stopping and waiting till jan 1st when I start my course.


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

edit i think your right im is quicker but not recomanded long term and regular


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

TaintedSoul said:


> So then fast acting, taken after meal is eaten not before and only training days should "hopefully" minimise the risk as we allowing the body to respond to the food and we just adding to that?
> 
> KingProp do you think it's worthwhile doing insulin when not using ona cycle. I'm thinking of stopping and waiting till jan 1st when I start my course.


This could be viewed as a very lax attitude but you went hypo, and you knew what was happening, Id carry a can of full sugar coke or soemthign tbh mate, those tabs might not be enough if it happens in future, a can of coke will normally sort it out..40g sugar or so.

Ive eaten a meal after taking slin/gh shots too and never gone hypo, only thing that seems to make me do it bigtime was mt2/hcg....I was trying to water the nausea sides down by taking my hcg at same time...went hypo instead...  ...still gave me an excuse to gob a box of choccy eclairs...so can't be all bad...lol


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Yeah, we are kinda stabbing in the dark on risk. Thats always the way though huh?

Ive come off test now after 12 weeks caning too much of it tbh. Im worried about risk as I have a family history of diabetes. Im thinking to reduce the insulin now and choose the most important meal of my day (PWO meal) to use it sparingly. Off cycle its about preserving the tissue created rather than look to gain...then work out risk to benefit starting with risk first. As long as we can consider REAL results whilst dispelling our urges to seek more too quickly from what it may give you, we'll be fine....

He says....


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## thetong6969 (Nov 23, 2008)

hi guys `m new to this forum guess in some respect i`m lucky then just browsing thru the posts here as i`m type1 diabetic i was just looking to see if anyone else is on here

back to the gym now for 5 weeks lost loads of bodyfat as can now see me eabs but gone from 68k to74k in 5 weeks eating every 3 hours at wk ends me sugars tend to go sky so try to stick to protein in between meals sometimes i do have hypos but never at the gym

messing with insulin if your body dont need it is dangerous so be careful

oh just for a brief record 10 years ago i was a competitive powerlifter at 67k roughly 10stone 7 me lifts were deadlift about 19stone squat 30 deadlift 34 i think

i went in for 4 comps the open was won by someone 9 stone heavier one group we won and 2 on me own i came first in lancs and cheshire and manchester and district then after slowing down for personal reasons for 18 months became diabetic wemnt from 11 7 to 7 stone 7 in 3 weeks me doctor almost killed me took me 6 years to be able to walk not like an old man struggled with stairs and hills till finally changing me insulin and now being able to lift i was making good progress going from 2x 15k plates plus bar for 8 then warmed up with 2 15 reps with that as felt strong lifted 20k plus bar felt really easy and ripped me shoulder muscle on 3 rd rep so ive trained round this bench press is out but used various machines and cables i must be doing something right i`m looking fine i`m 5ft5 by the way so only have to watch me abs which i do at home at mo

anyway hi all and be careful with that insulin ive had bad hypos(when on mixtard in the past its not something you want beleive me) oh i`m 37 got diabetes when 32 i`m deaf so need hearing aids that ruined me hearing too but life goes on ya get on with it do as best as ya can


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Sorry to hear about that mate, does diabetics affect punctuation also?


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## thetong6969 (Nov 23, 2008)

thanks for the reply thestudbeast <spelt correctly so far lol no it`s not me diabetes that does that(unless sugars go low in which case dont have much control) it`s me keyboard and sometimes when type fast things go weird with spelling normally not much of an issue and for some reason it even pumped me forearmes up? unusual anywya thanks a lot for getting back anyone on here know anyone else diabetic i`d like some tips off them although think i`m doing ok so far talking of which time to go to the gym


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## niknaknok (Jun 10, 2007)

are they not 100 iu per ml and not 100 iu in 3 ml


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

niknaknok said:


> are they not 100 iu per ml and not 100 iu in 3 ml


yes they are. 1iu/ml


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## babyshins (Nov 10, 2008)

thestudbeast said:


> Sorry to hear about that mate, does diabetics affect punctuation also?


No it does not affect punctuation!

When somebody has *a hearing impairement*, it can affect the way words are spelt and the structure of a sentence.

Pls do not be so ignorant!!!!!!


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

My friend has his after every meal and he looks pregnant...You know how it is supposed to increase a rush of igf 1 pwo.Dont the ganes from igf 1 come over time.So why do we get incredable gains from slin,gh pretty much straight away.Does any body know.....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

where did you read that insulin causes a rush of IGF-1 when injected ??


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## bkoz (Apr 29, 2008)

Sorry gh slin pwo.... Thats just what i thought.please correct me.Thats why i asked any body know...


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

ok an update to my messing about with slin.....

So end of October I started doing 2iu's with breakfast, lunch, PWO shake, and 4th meal. This progressed upto 4iu's. I found I started pushing a little more, had more energy in the gym and was feeling alot better physically and motivated. I ran that for November but without growth or AAS and no real gains noticed as I started at 103kg's and gained maybe .5kg so I decided to wait till Jan when courses started.

Started course Beginning of January @ 103.3kg's

1100mg Andropen /week

400mg NPP /week

1ml OxyTest PreWorkout.

4iu HGH before bed / now currently 10iu's with PWO slin jab

Insulin

6iu's Slin with breakfast

8iu's Slin post workout with shake (60grams protein, 60 grams WMS) / now 10iu's with 10GHGH (as mentioned above)

Couldn't really say how good that was working as weight was skyrocketing over the weeks due to muscle gains and water. Was upto 111kg's (morning) at one stage. Started taking anastrozole middle Feb 1tb/day to combat gyno and this helped drop water. Weight went down to 109.??kg's (morning).

Started tren on the 18th and on 23 Feb I started doing 10iu's HGH and 10iu's Slin mon,tues, thurs, fri which are my training days. I just dont feel I'm getting much from the slin. I donno maybe it's too early to tell since I've only been doing the two together now for a week and half? I'm not getting stiff joint running the two together so that's a bonus.

Maybe I should use a combo of oats and WMS in the shake? After a heavy session I cant really stomach a meal an hour or two after the PWO workout shake and jab.

I know I'm leaning up nicely now (tren is a wonderful steroid) with weight slowly creeping up and getting leaner things are working there, but it's a give and take in the weight department. But none of the gains other report.

Any thoughts....


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

what about upping your slin dosages mate if you are not having any hypo issues?

possibly look at levemir?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

adrian said:


> thats alot of food but im a ectomorph hard gainner and if i dont eat i dont grow.
> 
> your looking at 500g protien 1000 carbs and 100 to 150 fats.


your an ectomorph at 18st? mg:


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

kingprop said:


> In my opinion im not convinced about long acting insulin for us lot. It cant be a safer way of doing it at all, surely?. If our own pancreas will release in response to a rise in BS, and we're taking a slow acting slin that has 'peaks' throught the day then surely we run the risk of our own BS not rising to any appreciable level to encourage natural release?
> 
> This looks like a faster way to insulin tolerance and diabetes.


what about slow acting slin like lantus or levemir that doesnt have peaks? i see these poping up on forums more and more now, seems like ppl are looking more towards slow acting slin for gains now. especially on ukiron.net


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Well ill wait and see their results first. I was referring to the mixtard type of slow insulin and I was aware there are peaks of duration of action to mimic meal times. I wasnt aware of the long acting 'no peak' insulins. It does look good, a lot better than the other slow ones but im still not convinced safety wise.

The articles and posts of experience are damn good over at UKI mind. Excellent forum.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

hilly2008 said:


> what about upping your slin dosages mate if you are not having any hypo issues?
> 
> possibly look at levemir?


levemir being fast acting?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

levemir is slow acting with no peaks mate. you take it all at breakfast. have a look at www.ukiron.net in maxiters section some very good ifno on it


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

im sure levemir and lantus are active for 24hour, very slow with no peaks. 10iu or under will only have an effect for about 12hours so iv been told


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## nattyasgraham (May 23, 2015)

Sorry to bring up an old thread. But i was hoping you guys could help. I'm thinking of adding hgh and insulin in small doses to my next cycle. I cruise and blast.

But i'm worried. I go hypo easy. Bloods show no sign of diabetes. Its always post workout shake. This is what i take

Intrawrkout + 50g maltodextrin or dextrose either one.

Post workout shake 70g Protein + 65g carb from maltodextrin.

Every time without fail in about 30 minutes - an hour ill get light headed, dizzy, clammy, tired, confused feeling. Does this mean Im very insulin sensitive? Is this a bad thing or good thing and should what should i avoid if i am?

I've been researching for three days and cant put my finger on it...


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## HenchPanda91 (Nov 15, 2014)

stone14 said:


> im sure levemir and lantus are active for 24hour, very slow with no peaks. 10iu or under will only have an effect for about 12hours so iv been told


is novomix 30 the same?


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## Dave_shorts (Jan 4, 2015)

nattyasgraham said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread. But i was hoping you guys could help. I'm thinking of adding hgh and insulin in small doses to my next cycle. I cruise and blast.
> 
> But i'm worried. I go hypo easy. Bloods show no sign of diabetes. Its always post workout shake. This is what i take
> 
> ...


I go hypo on very low dosages so I understand. No health issues. I'm just very carb sensitive. It may just be how you react

Stay safe.


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