# pat tate



## benji666 (Apr 18, 2015)

Back when I was a skinny lad of 16 the owner of my gym asked this nice bloke and his mate tony to keep an eye on me as he wasn't around for a few days. As he said I was a 'clumsy little c**t'. In our gym they caused no trouble ,were polite and paid their money on time.Thats all the owner cared about. Anyhow both pat and tony were fine with me, and one time pat spotted me and my spotty mates outside a local nightclub in the queue,he walked up to me, shook my hand and we not only didn't have to wait in the queue we all got in for free. Never saw much of him after, but I have no idea who he was really. To me he was just another doorman. Back in the day all the local doormen used my gym. When those two films came out about him essex boys and rise of the footsoldier , I got the creeps a little. No idea who I was clowning around with in the gym. By all accounts they were really unpleasant men, but to me and others it was always pat and tony,just two lads who worked out together.

Now I remember talking to him once about my dad, I've always had a difficult relationship with him, and I had told pat a bit about my dad, and pat said I ought to be proud of my dad because he had come up from nothing and done it 'the right way' and 'wasn't a mug'.


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## no-one (Jul 3, 2016)

How old are you? The 3 of them (including Rolfe) were wiped out nearly 22 years ago.

It's nice to hear that you had a pleasant experience with them but a lot of people didn't. They were bully boy cowards hell bent on wrecking havoc on people they considered weaker than them.

What's more interesting is, who wiped them out on that night of the 6th December 1995. I believe the 2 men currently serving triple life sentences for it are scape goats. Their conviction was based on a testimonial from Darren Nicholls who was notorious for being a fu**ing liar anyway. I could be wrong though, but they weren't exactly popular people and many had their own motives.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

Never heard of them.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rettendon_murders

I remember this,

They were all topped (allegedly) because of a young girl called Leah Betts, she died after taking ecstasy they supplied.

Here are the murder pictures.

EXTREME GRAPHICS PICTURES IN THE LINK, DON'T WANT TO SEE DEAD PEOPLE DON'T CLICK IT!!!!!

Some time during the night of 6 - 7 December 1995 three men - all career criminals - were blown away with a shotgun as they sat in a Range Rover parked in a remote farm track in Essex.

The men were Tony Tucker, Craig Rolfe and Patrick Tate.

https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f237/essex-boys-triple-rettendon-murders-9486/


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## SNAKEBITE (Aug 30, 2017)

I'm a firm believer of "If you don't get involved you don't get hurt".

We've all heard the stories about how you could leave you doors unlocked in London when the Kray's were about. Well to a certain extent it was true. There were boundaries, which became blurred when drugs became involved.

As a kid I was on the outskirts of a few nasty situations with nasty people, but I managed to keep the balance of respect and being a bit cheeky, after all I'm still here with all my own teeth.

I learnt early on to say the right things at the right time and pretend to listen, even if you were never going to take the advice. As such I got on well with a lot of people, but never got involved in anything, although it was tempting.

A lot of the people I knew were just trying to keep up appearances, they had made a name for themselves and whilst they didn't really want to carry on like it, they had to , to keep up their name. They did cause a lot of misery and few ended up in prison or dead.

Biggest shock of all was when I bumped into someone I grew up with. In our late teens and early 20's he was BIG, a solid wall of evil driven muscle. A favourite trick of his was to stub cigarettes out on the hands of people who hovered over the ashtray. I saw him a couple of years ago and he looked like death warmed up, like something out of a concentration camp, my 10 year old must have weighed more than him. I don't know what messed him up, but at 44 that was not a good place to be.

As I grew older I moved on, but looking back it was an exciting time.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

SNAKEBITE said:


> I'm a firm believer of "If you don't get involved you don't get hurt".
> 
> We've all heard the stories about how you could leave you doors unlocked in London when the Kray's were about. Well to a certain extent it was true. There were boundaries, which became blurred when drugs became involved.
> 
> ...


 The trouble is, once up there, you've gotta stay up there which also means looking after those around and below. No money coming in means you're fcuk'd either way you go. Often folk think these types make loads of money or the cops prosecute them for 'making' lots of money but often this is street value which obviously the higher up guys don't sell at street value and also they have to look after others which is why quite often once they can't do what made them money, they fall apart or have to take higher risks in which they get caught.

Often these huge people won't be huge forever, especially if taking drugs, then the young upcoming lads are up for making a name for themselves. Few last beyond their 40's.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Sparkey said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rettendon_murders
> 
> I remember this,
> 
> ...


 Sweet pics!


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

sen said:


> Sweet pics!


 Apparently they all had headache after!


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

no-one said:


> How old are you? The 3 of them (including Rolfe) were wiped out nearly 22 years ago.
> 
> It's nice to hear that you had a pleasant experience with them but a lot of people didn't. They were bully boy cowards hell bent on wrecking havoc on people they considered weaker than them.
> 
> What's more interesting is, who wiped them out on that night of the 6th December 1995. I believe the 2 men currently serving triple life sentences for it are scape goats. Their conviction was based on a testimonial from Darren Nicholls who was notorious for being a fu**ing liar anyway. I could be wrong though, but they weren't exactly popular people and many had their own motives.


 Police wiped them out. Did everyone a favour


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

benji666 said:


> Back when I was a skinny lad of 16 the owner of my gym asked this nice bloke and his mate tony to keep an eye on me as he wasn't around for a few days. As he said I was a 'clumsy little c**t'. In our gym they caused no trouble ,were polite and paid their money on time.Thats all the owner cared about. Anyhow both pat and tony were fine with me, and one time pat spotted me and my spotty mates outside a local nightclub in the queue,he walked up to me, shook my hand and we not only didn't have to wait in the queue we all got in for free. Never saw much of him after, but I have no idea who he was really. To me he was just another doorman. Back in the day all the local doormen used my gym. When those two films came out about him essex boys and rise of the footsoldier , I got the creeps a little. No idea who I was clowning around with in the gym. By all accounts they were really unpleasant men, but to me and others it was always pat and tony,just two lads who worked out together.
> 
> Now I remember talking to him once about my dad, I've always had a difficult relationship with him, and I had told pat a bit about my dad, and pat said I ought to be proud of my dad because he had come up from nothing and done it 'the right way' and 'wasn't a mug'.


 Cool story bro, they should make a film about it :whistling:


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## no-one (Jul 3, 2016)

Clubber Lang said:


> Police wiped them out. Did everyone a favour


 How do you know this? Source? There were so many motives for their execution, they wern't exactly a friendly bunch.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

no-one said:


> How do you know this? Source? There were so many motives for their execution, they wern't exactly a friendly bunch.


 they told me lol. No one knows for sure, well other than the two in prison for theyre murders. But i personally think it was a police set up.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

They were robbing people (ie gangs of other unsavoury characters in Canning Town, East Lahhhndan - not a very bright idea) of vast amounts of money/drugs.

Pat Tate owed money to 2 brothers. Apparantley, these 2 brothers were//are not to be messed with. Lots of heavy people had had enough of them. Lots of documentaries/interviews about it. Bernard O'Mahony, who was in the doorman business with Tony Tucker , has done several documentaries about them.

I used to go clubbing at Club UK in Wandsworth back in 94/95. Tony Tucker was head of door staff at this club. The doormen, there, were horrible cnuts. There was always a horrible, moody coked up aggressive approach from them. Bullies. Making comments, pushing clubbers through while taking the piss out of them as they paid to get in. Grown, jacked up dudes, huge, pushing 19/20 year old kids around. Great club for dj's but I never felt that safe when doormen were around.


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

Bernard O'Mahony oh god that bloke, totla nutter of his head with paranoia.

doormen inclubb back then where the main cause of violence in clubs ironically


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> they told me lol. No one knows for sure, well other than the two in prison for theyre murders. But i personally think it was a police set up.


Apparently leahs father was in the free masons. I recon he topped them by ordering the killing or set them up. They were under surveillance and why not that night and anyone that knows about contract killings would have known it would of been a dodgy murder as it would be ontop to get away after shooting them. I recon the police set it all up and to get mick jailed too. Just seems the most plausible master mind behind it all. 

Old post but just thought I would pipe up as I’m watching some docs on them.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

I did it. Bastards stole my BMX.


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

EpicSquats said:


> I did it. Bastards stole my BMX.


Not the pink one with the rainbow tassels!?!?


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

mrwright said:


> Not the pink one with the rainbow tassels!?!?


Why do you know what colour it was? Did you have something to do with it?


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## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

They were just freaks who preyed on people weaker than them. Who cares who done it. Just scumbags. What goes around comes around


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## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

Me dad's arder than him


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## DarkKnight (Feb 3, 2021)

I’d have knocked them all clean out in heartbeat 

Fookin wannabes


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

DarkKnight said:


> I’d have knocked them all clean out in heartbeat
> 
> Fookin wannabes


You couldn't knock a decent wank out


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

gavzilla said:


> Apparently leahs father was in the free masons. I recon he topped them by ordering the killing or set them up. They were under surveillance and why not that night and anyone that knows about contract killings would have known it would of been a dodgy murder as it would be ontop to get away after shooting them. I recon the police set it all up and to get **** jailed too. Just seems the most plausible master mind behind it all.
> 
> Old post but just thought I would pipe up as I’m watching some docs on them.


You've got me reading about it too Gav, only what I can find on the internet though.


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## DarkKnight (Feb 3, 2021)

G-man99 said:


> You couldn't knock a decent wank out


😂

Anytime you feel like trying your luck gman let me know


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

DarkKnight said:


> 😂
> 
> Anytime you feel like trying your luck gman let me know


The wank or the dust up?

Both would be preferential


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

Clubber Lang said:


> they told me lol. No one knows for sure, well other than the two in prison for theyre murders. But i personally think it was a police set up.


I thought this as well. Great solution.






Nipper Ellis claims he knows killed them. Just fast forward to last 10 mins or less to hear him say it was his Dad…. Oops.

They threatened to cut off the fingers of Nippers little sister and were trying to kill Nipper. Pat and Craig took shits on nippers carpet and smeared it all over the walls.

All 3 of the ****s are better in the ground. Utter bully boy scum. What goes around comes arounc


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

PSevens2017 said:


> I thought this as well. Great solution.
> 
> Nipper Ellis claims he knows killed them. Just fast forward to last 10 mins or less to hear him say it was his Dad…. Oops.
> 
> ...


Since Gavs post I have had a read on the internet, the story does get you interested in what happened, well something like that is rare here. I noted a detective on the case and now a PI has investigated further and thinks the ones in jail are innocent. Read a papers article about what you have posted. The guy has openly said it was his father that did it, but waited until he died. He said his Dad called him after the shootings laughing and said he'd done it. Now I've got to looking into it, I think I'll read more.


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

Also read an article where Craig and Tony allegedly murdered a 28 year old guy over missing money and made it look like a drug overdose. Tate's family openly spoke out about it and told the guy's parents they did it, as the parents knew their son was not a drug taker. Won't comment on how they "allegedly" did it.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

PSevens2017 said:


> I thought this as well. Great solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Chat shit, get banged, well 12-gauaged lol


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

Brian Multigym said:


> Also read an article where Craig and Tony allegedly murdered a 28 year old guy over missing money and made it look like a drug overdose. Tate's family openly spoke out about it and told the guy's parents they did it, as the parents knew their son was not a drug taker. Won't comment on how they "allegedly" did it.


Kevin something wasn’t it? Injecting him with all sorts of shit. Forced him to drink largactil as well. Horrible cnuts.

This is a good read, Bri. It’s not full of the usual ‘Oim gonna boit your fackin nose off yooo cahhnntt!’ like you see in so many gangster/football hooligan films.


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## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

Anyone watched the new Rotf?

1st was a good watch but the rest were terrible. 

I'm amazed how much publicly these three have had from being pretty much local dealer bully boys.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

Philfg said:


> Anyone watched the new Rotf?
> 
> 1st was a good watch but the rest were terrible.
> 
> I'm amazed how much publicly these three have had from being pretty much local dealer bully boys.


They all get worse the more versions that come out. ‘The Fall of the Essex Boys’ is a crime to film making and acting. Even the voiceover is shouting his head off 😂😂 Abysmal and laughable. I thought it was really funny but then got really wound up that I had subjected myself to it.

I started watching ‘ID 2’ the other night. 1st one was a great film (Reece Dinsdale lead actor is great). Switched off the 2nd one 15 mins as as soon as this scowling bell end threatened with the immortal line ‘You want me to boit chore fahhkin nose off?’ Shameful acting and script.


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## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

PSevens2017 said:


> They all get worse the more versions that come out. ‘The Fall of the Essex Boys’ is a crime to film making and acting. Even the voiceover is shouting his head off 😂😂 Abysmal and laughable. I thought it was really funny but then got really wound up that I had subjected myself to it.
> 
> I started watching ‘ID 2’ the other night. 1st one was a great film (Reece Dinsdale lead actor is great). Switched off the 2nd one 15 mins as as soon as this scowling bell end threatened with the immortal line ‘You want me to boit chore fahhkin nose off?’ Shameful acting and script.


I was the same, ID 2 is terrible.

We've got a crime film being released about my home town Newcastle soon. I bet it's terrible.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

Philfg said:


> I was the same, ID 2 is terrible.
> 
> We've got a crime film being released about my home town Newcastle soon. I bet it's terrible.


It’s quite funny watching the film premiere’s etc for ROTF films. Carlton Leach and a load of “gangsters” eg Dave Courtney. Bizarre. Then, after all these gangsters have been filmed, Fatnowthin Rick Waller ‘Pop idol contestant’ appears 😂😂 He’s not even in the film 🤷🏽


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## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Philfg said:


> I was the same, ID 2 is terrible.
> 
> We've got a crime film being released about my home town Newcastle soon. I bet it's terrible.


Aye ive seen the previews of it mate. It starts with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia having a drink down the big market and then a scrap starts. Then a little skinny bloke called John seyers sorts them all out while paddy is getting bummed off 15 of them in the corner. Then Raoul moat is seen with gazza right in the middle of it having a can while wearing nothing but a dressing gown and slippers


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## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

PSevens2017 said:


> It’s quite funny watching the film premiere’s etc for ROTF films. Carlton Leach and a load of “gangsters” eg Dave Courtney. Bizarre. Then, after all these gangsters have been filmed, Fatnowthin Rick Waller ‘Pop idol contestant’ appears 😂😂 He’s not even in the film 🤷🏽


Dave courtney. He's a character. His first book however is a hoot. 

I've been after Terry turbos book King of clubs for a while now.


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## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

PaulNe said:


> Aye ive seen the previews of it mate. It starts with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia having a drink down the big market and then a scrap starts. Then a little skinny bloke called John seyers sorts them all out while paddy is getting bummed off 15 of them in the corner. Then Raoul moat is seen with gazza right in the middle of it having a can while wearing nothing but a dressing gown and slippers


I hope theres a nude scene with wor chez getting smashed on it though.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

Philfg said:


> Dave courtney. He's a character. His first book however is a hoot.
> 
> I've been after Terry turbos book King of clubs for a while now.


I take it that’s his story about life as a rave promoter?


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## R5Gtt75 (Apr 20, 2020)

PSevens2017 said:


> I take it that’s his story about life as a rave promoter?


Yeah, back in his ministry days I believe.

Its supposed to be a good read.

Edit : it's one nation


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

PSevens2017 said:


> I thought this as well. Great solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m lead to believe that it was a pigeon gun and not a pump action gun. Also the drivers hand did not move from the steering wheel so it seems to me the driver was shot first. I’m still watching the evidence but the more I watch and research it the more questions there is. I do wonder how did a gun man shoot all 3 men without any of them running out of the Range Rover.


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## DarkKnight (Feb 3, 2021)

gavzilla said:


> I’m lead to believe that it was a pigeon gun and not a pump action gun. Also the drivers hand did not move from the steering wheel so it seems to me the driver was shot first. I’m still watching the evidence but the more I watch and research it the more questions there is. I do wonder how did a gun man shoot all 3 men without any of them running out of the Range Rover.


More than one gunman?

Tbf gav it wouldn’t take long to fire off a few shots like that. You could pistol whip 3 peeps in no time

And the lad in the range probably too shocked to move know what I mean


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

DarkKnight said:


> More than one gunman?
> 
> Tbf gav it wouldn’t take long to fire off a few shots like that. You could pistol whip 3 peeps in no time
> 
> And the lad in the range probably too shocked to move know what I mean


Yes I agree shock does stall a human hence the saying a rabbit caught in head lights. However the way the bloke in the video describes on YouTube said his dad shot pat first in the back of the Range Rover. The pictures show us that the driver’s hand had not moved from the steering wheel and if I remember correctly im sure his phone was on his knee which means that during the shooting he did not move at all or jump in fear. I’m sure if pat was shot first then the driver would of at least jump and your hand would not be in a relaxed position on the steering wheel. It seems to me the driver was shot first and anyone who knows how to ambush and who ever did the shooting would be organised so the driver would of been hit first to prevent him putting his foot down to escape. I don’t think the pigeon gun has a pump action mechanism so it would not be a quick round per second. If they were shot with a pistol fist this would explain how the gun man could shoot all three quickly then finish them off with a shot gun. There is more to this story now I’m looking at the evidence. I don’t know how much you have researched but it is possible that the gun men were stitched up now that I look at it more. However the more I research I may go back to believing it was them but at the moment where I am at the evidence is not compelling. There alibis are really poor which does point to them however the grass and the police are also looking suspicious which by the way they were sacked after the murders.


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## DarkKnight (Feb 3, 2021)

gavzilla said:


> Yes I agree shock does stall a human hence the saying a rabbit caught in head lights. However the way the bloke in the video describes on YouTube said his dad shot pat first in the back of the Range Rover. The pictures show us that the driver’s hand had not moved from the steering wheel and if I remember correctly im sure his phone was on his knee which means that during the shooting he did not move at all or jump in fear. I’m sure if pat was shot first then the driver would of at least jump and your hand would not be in a relaxed position on the steering wheel. It seems to me the driver was shot first and anyone who knows how to ambush and who ever did the shooting would be organised so the driver would of been hit first to prevent him putting his foot down to escape. I don’t think the pigeon gun has a pump action mechanism so it would not be a quick round per second. If they were shot with a pistol fist this would explain how the gun man could shoot all three quickly then finish them off with a shot gun. There is more to this story now I’m looking at the evidence. I don’t know how much you have researched but it is possible that the gun men were stitched up now that I look at it more. However the more I research I may go back to believing it was them but at the moment where I am at the evidence is not compelling. There alibis are really poor which does point to them however the grass and the police are also looking suspicious which by the way they were sacked after the murders.


The geez in the vid is obviously talking shite mate, trying to get his 5 mins of fame 

I was only a teenager at the time of the murders but I’ve read a fair bit about it and seen all the films lol

End of the day, they were ****s and deserved the bullets they received


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## Brian Multigym (Oct 2, 2021)

PSevens2017 said:


> Kevin something wasn’t it? Injecting him with all sorts of shit. Forced him to drink largactil as well. Horrible cnuts.
> 
> This is a good read, Bri. It’s not full of the usual ‘Oim gonna boit your fackin nose off yooo cahhnntt!’ like you see in so many gangster/football hooligan films.


Yes, you are right - Kevin, I won't say his surname. Correct, injected him with two nasty drugs for a start. Disgusting.

Thanks for that, I'll look into it.


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

G-man99 said:


> The wank or the dust up?
> 
> Both would be preferential


Would be happy to locate a camera to record the event…. for personal use only of course


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

PSevens2017 said:


> Would be happy to locate a camera to record the event…. for personal use only of course


You are always welcome......

You'd be a good addition to the ménage à trois


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

DarkKnight said:


> The geez in the vid is obviously talking shite mate, trying to get his 5 mins of fame
> 
> I was only a teenager at the time of the murders but I’ve read a fair bit about it and seen all the films lol
> 
> End of the day, they were ****s and deserved the bullets they received


They didnt sound a nice bunch but I’m just interested in the murders. Whoever used the guns were quick and were good with guns. From looking at the photos there was hardly any movement from any one of them apart from pat. He seen the gun man, he was the only one trying to defend himself. The driver and Tucker did not move at all. It seems to me and from more investigation that the killer was good with a shot gun, it does seem a bad choice of wepon in my opinion to kill 3 big blokes in a car so I suspect the shot gun must of been a fast loading type rather than a pigeon shot gun. The killer then put a bullet in each one of there heads behind the ear. So the killer was not a part time drug dealer and was a pro. I recon there could have been 2 gun men with shot guns. There is a full investigation channel on YouTube. I can’t stop watching it and I remember these murders too I was just a kid. My mates father was gunned down around the same year in similar circumstances and they never caught his killers either he was an unstoppable fears doorman. The police caught someone and they spent a lot of time on stitching someone else up who in the end was released from prison and sued the police. What I learnt from this is that the police will frame you if they can’t find the killers. They need to close it quickly because of the time spent on cases. I know another lad in my town that was convicted of a double murder, my cousin was the main witness. The police kept putting words in his mouth. In the end they convicted someone that everyone in my own town believe was innocent. The murderer is a known grass. Not so long ago he set himself on fire and we believe because he struggles to live with the guilt of the murders of 2 innocent girls. My point been is that the police are so corrupt and if they can’t find a killer they will make one up.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

gavzilla said:


> They didnt sound a nice bunch but I’m just interested in the murders. Whoever used the guns were quick and were good with guns. From looking at the photos there was hardly any movement from any one of them apart from pat. He seen the gun man, he was the only one trying to defend himself. The driver and Tucker did not move at all. It seems to me and from more investigation that the killer was good with a shot gun, it does seem a bad choice of wepon in my opinion to kill 3 big blokes in a car so I suspect the shot gun must of been a fast loading type rather than a pigeon shot gun. The killer then put a bullet in each one of there heads behind the ear. So the killer was not a part time drug dealer and was a pro. I recon there could have been 2 gun men with shot guns. There is a full investigation channel on YouTube. I can’t stop watching it and I remember these murders too I was just a kid. My mates father was gunned down around the same year in similar circumstances and they never caught his killers either he was an unstoppable fears doorman. The police caught someone and they spent a lot of time on stitching someone else up who in the end was released from prison and sued the police. What I learnt from this is that the police will frame you if they can’t find the killers. They need to close it quickly because of the time spent on cases. I know another lad in my town that was convicted of a double murder, my cousin was the main witness. The police kept putting words in his mouth. In the end they convicted someone that everyone in my own town believe was innocent. The murderer is a known grass. Not so long ago he set himself on fire and we believe because he struggles to live with the guilt of the murders of 2 innocent girls. My point been is that the police are so corrupt and if they can’t find a killer they will make one up.


Not directly related to this story, but more on how the police willingly try to frame anyone they can to close murder cases. 

The killing in tiger Bay, the Cardiff 5. 

One of the wrongly convicted killers was my partners uncle. She told me of the story and injustice of it and the heartache caused with the families. 
She works within the prison service and can see how corrupt it has been. 

Was on TV recently and it's shocking to see the lengths they will go to 

BBC One - A Killing in Tiger Bay, Series 1, The Murder


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## PSevens2017 (Apr 2, 2017)

gavzilla said:


> They didnt sound a nice bunch but I’m just interested in the murders. Whoever used the guns were quick and were good with guns. From looking at the photos there was hardly any movement from any one of them apart from pat. He seen the gun man, he was the only one trying to defend himself. The driver and Tucker did not move at all. It seems to me and from more investigation that the killer was good with a shot gun, it does seem a bad choice of wepon in my opinion to kill 3 big blokes in a car so I suspect the shot gun must of been a fast loading type rather than a pigeon shot gun. The killer then put a bullet in each one of there heads behind the ear. So the killer was not a part time drug dealer and was a pro. I recon there could have been 2 gun men with shot guns. There is a full investigation channel on YouTube. I can’t stop watching it and I remember these murders too I was just a kid. My mates father was gunned down around the same year in similar circumstances and they never caught his killers either he was an unstoppable fears doorman. The police caught someone and they spent a lot of time on stitching someone else up who in the end was released from prison and sued the police. What I learnt from this is that the police will frame you if they can’t find the killers. They need to close it quickly because of the time spent on cases. I know another lad in my town that was convicted of a double murder, my cousin was the main witness. The police kept putting words in his mouth. In the end they convicted someone that everyone in my own town believe was innocent. The murderer is a known grass. Not so long ago he set himself on fire and we believe because he struggles to live with the guilt of the murders of 2 innocent girls. My point been is that the police are so corrupt and if they can’t find a killer they will make one up.


I think the story is that they clearly knew and trusted the 4th guy in the vehicle so never expected to be shot.

Plus, they were that ramped up on a cocktail of different drugs and dat greed for money. Thought they were untouchable. Tate and Tucker (.unsure about Rolfe) also juiced up to the gills so no doubt played it’s part with the rest of the shit they put into their system. 

It’s worth looking into some Carlton leach interviews where he talks about the change inTony Tucker.

In one of his interviews, they also had an interview with Nigel Benn. Tucker walked him out to some of his fights and Leach became good friends. He was saying that there was this very bad atmosphere that he could sense coming from the guys who were in the circle of people who Tucker and Tate knew.

Benn said he warned Leach to move away as he felt something bad was going to happen. Said it even scared him.


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## w0mpatron (Mar 17, 2009)

Didn't know about any of these lads before, got a few books to read from this, nice one. Got Essex Boys The Final Read & Terry Turbs One Nation, any others you would recommend? Not just Pat Tate stuff, anything true crime / local gangster shit


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

PSevens2017 said:


> I think the story is that they clearly knew and trusted the 4th guy in the vehicle so never expected to be shot.
> 
> Plus, they were that ramped up on a cocktail of different drugs and dat greed for money. Thought they were untouchable. Tate and Tucker (.unsure about Rolfe) also juiced up to the gills so no doubt played it’s part with the rest of the shit they put into their system.
> 
> ...







If you subscribe to this channel there is a full investigation into the murders. When you watch each section of the information you start to ask more questions.


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

G-man99 said:


> Not directly related to this story, but more on how the police willingly try to frame anyone they can to close murder cases.
> 
> The killing in tiger Bay, the Cardiff 5.
> 
> ...


I think I will watch this. This is why I dislike the police. I’m sure they do more good than bad but there will always be a few cases like thought we are talking about where someone gets stitched up.


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## wylde99 (Feb 23, 2008)

DarkKnight said:


> I’d have knocked them all clean out in heartbeat
> 
> Fookin wannabes


Easy work, watched Rise of the Footsoldier again last night, that Pizza scene of Pat Tate going down to the Restaurant can't be based on Real events surely? If so the guy he attacked must of been some skinny little punk as like others have said he was just a Bully.


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## Godwin (Dec 21, 2021)

Rise of the footsoldier films are fairly entertaining to laugh at, but as usual these larger than life gangsters were actually horrible bullies. The krays seem to get sucked off for being honorable but I've heard one of them is a nonce.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

benji666 said:


> Back when I was a skinny lad of 16 the owner of my gym asked this nice bloke and his mate tony to keep an eye on me as he wasn't around for a few days. As he said I was a 'clumsy little c**t'. In our gym they caused no trouble ,were polite and paid their money on time.Thats all the owner cared about. Anyhow both pat and tony were fine with me, and one time pat spotted me and my spotty mates outside a local nightclub in the queue,he walked up to me, shook my hand and we not only didn't have to wait in the queue we all got in for free. Never saw much of him after, but I have no idea who he was really. To me he was just another doorman. Back in the day all the local doormen used my gym. When those two films came out about him essex boys and rise of the footsoldier , I got the creeps a little. No idea who I was clowning around with in the gym. By all accounts they were really unpleasant men, but to me and others it was always pat and tony,just two lads who worked out together.
> 
> Now I remember talking to him once about my dad, I've always had a difficult relationship with him, and I had told pat a bit about my dad, and pat said I ought to be proud of my dad because he had come up from nothing and done it 'the right way' and 'wasn't a mug'.


Anyone that ends up getting their head blown off in the back of a range rover before they're 40, you should probably assume the exact opposite to be correct regarding anything they tell you about life.



no-one said:


> How old are you? The 3 of them (including Rolfe) were wiped out nearly 22 years ago.
> 
> It's nice to hear that you had a pleasant experience with them but a lot of people didn't. They were bully boy cowards hell bent on wrecking havoc on people they considered weaker than them.
> 
> What's more interesting is, who wiped them out on that night of the 6th December 1995. I believe the 2 men currently serving triple life sentences for it are scape goats. Their conviction was based on a testimonial from Darren Nicholls who was notorious for being a fu**ing liar anyway. I could be wrong though, but they weren't exactly popular people and many had their own motives.


But TBF both those convicted mobile phone mast pings corroborated Darren Nicholls testimony and put them around the scene and where he said they were at the time of the murders.

I think there were probably in a long line of people that would have liked to do it but I think they got the right people.


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## PaulNe (Oct 29, 2020)

Godwin said:


> Rise of the footsoldier films are fairly entertaining to laugh at, but as usual these larger than life gangsters were actually horrible bullies. The krays seem to get sucked off for being honorable but I've heard one of them is a nonce.


One of them were gay. Imagine getting victimised off a puff


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## BUFFMAN (Aug 22, 2020)

Scary world innit? Sometimes thankful I've lived a sheltered life in Dorset 🤣


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## knuckleheed2 (Dec 1, 2019)

w0mpatron said:


> Didn't know about any of these lads before, got a few books to read from this, nice one. Got Essex Boys The Final Read & Terry Turbs One Nation, any others you would recommend? Not just Pat Tate stuff, anything true crime / local gangster shit


Sorry, late to the party here. Have read a lot of true crime books. A cracking book to read is the one on John Palmer aka goldfinger. The bit about his time share empire built in Tenerife gets particularly interesting and gory.








‎Killing Goldfinger


‎Biography · 2017



books.apple.com





Quite a lot of good Scouse true crime books out, this one being particularly good








Powder Wars


Gangster Paul Grimes was a one-man crimewave with a breathtaking capacity to steal. Any villains who got in his way were made to pay - of...



www.goodreads.com





Those Essex boys got what was coming to them. People were lining up as they had crossed so many people. The murder of the young lad by injecting him was particularly disgusting. There is always someone bigger and nastier than you if you hang about long enough.


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## DarkKnight (Feb 3, 2021)

wylde99 said:


> Easy work, watched Rise of the Footsoldier again last night, that Pizza scene of Pat Tate going down to the Restaurant can't be based on Real events surely? If so the guy he attacked must of been some skinny little punk as like others have said he was just a Bully.


Probably some truth in it. As in he bullied someone in the local shop after a night out.

Reality of it is, karma got him in the end in the form of a fookin bullet, but I’ve come across many bully boys like him over the years, knocked out many of the fookers too. Pat Tate would have seen his arse if we were in the same generation know what I’m sayin 

Juiced up and big doesn’t mean shite when it comes to fighting as you probably know, being a pencil neck yourself


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