# Your very first cycle. Are you ready & what to use



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

I thought I'd contribute in the form of a post that would hang around as first cycle stuff comes along all the time...If anyone has a different opinion to me and replies with so I will happily add to the original post along side my own (or instead of if I have wrote incorrect information)

To write this out methodically I will start from the beginning to the end process of your first steroid cycle, by writing out the questions you should be asking yourself

*
How is my diet? *

*
*In my opinion this is the very first question you should ask yourself. Do you either a) gain 0.5-2lb a week, week in week out or B) lose 0.5-2lb a week, week in week out.

Obviously this is just a very rough estimation of either lean muscle gain or 'safe' fat loss ( I say safe fat loss as anyone can not eat and lose weight in places you do not want to lose it... i.e. organs). But it shows that you have a diet/goal that you have set to and achieve without steroids. It also shows that you have a diet which IS contributing towards your end goal...as all steroids will do is increase the speed at which you can reach your end goal.

If the answer to this question is *no* I do not have a set meal plan where I am already achieving my goals then I shall point you towards the coaches available over email on this forum.

@dtlv @solidcecil

( there are more coaches but I am not 100% of there availability - so I do not want them hounded unless stated they have spaces)

if you pick up an online coach whoever it may be then make the assumption that this part of the thread is ok and *yes *your diet is up to scratch to use anabolic steroids.

*How is your training, are you training smart ?*

this is a tricky one as there are many ways to skin a cat so I will not divulge into the different training methods.

putting it as simple as possible I would ask you are meeting the following criteria; meeting the following criteria I would consider you are 'training smart'



*You are hitting either one muscle group a training session, a push/pull legs style workout, or an upper lower style workout*


*You are letting your muscles fail during some these exercises, and in some occasions you push past failure*


*You are allowing for optimum recovery*


*You do research into training techniques & form*


*You warm up adequately*


*You perform stretches, motility movements on occasion (for example use of the foam roller)*


*
**Your day to day tasks, activities, personality and rest.*

*
*

*
*Growing doesn't end when you leave the gym, you should be asking yourself do I get adequate sleep a night? again this , along with all aspects of body building is person dependant, but be smart, you know yourself if you are getting enough sleep - if not then you limit your potential.

Are you prepared to bring Tupperware's around with you, from preparing your meals the night before,weekend before or the morning before (this is the true sign of a diet that has been set in stone) instead of just making use of your work cafeteria cleverly.

this is a very controversial statement but I stand by it, you should ask yourself. Are you a d1ckhead? as from my experience, a d1ck head before using steroids; is just a bigger d1ck head afterwards. If your answer is yes - then have a look at yourself in the mirror and decide what person you want to be, as when on AAS or when coming off AAS - emotions can be amplified.

Water intake is important, are you drinking enough? are you taking in water with all meals (nutrients cannot transport as well without it) are your electrolytes correct in respect to your day job/workout conditions (sweat alot, more salt in a nut shell).

*Pre cycle blood work*

This is one that I cannot express the importance of, when you mess up your cycle and come on here for recovery advice, if you come here with bloodwork, either before or after your steroid cycle then we are able to assist in your recovery without guess work.

*How can you get bloodwork?*

One of a few options, be creative with your GP - or pay for an online blood test, or go to a local nuffield health.

The hormones you are interested in are LH, FSH, Free testosterone, SBGH, Prolactin, Estrogen (E2)

I will share with you how to be creative with the GP, you have two options

if you have pubertal gynecomastia /fatty tissue in the peck - go in saying you have itchiness, soreness and lactation - your GP WILL get the bloodwork above done as first port of call... I used this method successfully twice (along with a wink or two)

go in and complain of fatigue, unable to maintain or get an erection, poor attitude, poor concentration levels - and it is affecting your work, this route though you must say that you are NOT depressed, otherwise the GP will go down this route other than underlying hormones.

http://www.bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/ - Here you are able to contact & get bundle deals on the hormones you want, a rough estimation of price is £200 for the required hormones

....Now we have covered the basics you can begin to ask yourself the fun questions.. now everybody advocates a different first cycle - but for me it is simple, it depends on the following question;

*
Are you able to inject yourself*

*
*

I would like to put it out there that some people use AAS, but do not inject themselves and unable to inject themselves - if this is you, then stick to orals. You cannot rely on other people to do this for you week in week out of your cycle, or for the rest of your life.

www.spotinjections.com - this website states the EXACT locations where to pin, it is easy

*
the answer is still no, I do not want to inject myself*

*
*

then it is an oral for you, we hear across the internet that orals are 'more toxic' because they pass through the body twice - this is true, HOWEVER if water intake is there, body stress is low, no/little alcohol is used then you shouldn't have problems aslong as your usage, dosage and duration i*s smart.*

*
*

*
**What orals are available for my first oral only cycle?*

*
*

This ultimately depends on your goal, but two similar compounds I always propose for a first oral cycle

Turinabol - 4-Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone

*Dianabol - Methandrostenolone*

Both compounds chemically similar, but the outcome in the body - not so similar

I would describe turinabol as a 'dry' compound, and dianabol as a 'wet' compound.

and dry and wet describe exactly the end outcome in your physique, do you mind water bloat/or do you want to remain as dry as possible.

if mass is your aim then dianabol is your weapon of choice;

proposed safe first time cycle, *20-50mg *the dosage is varied there but again is person dependant - how much do you weigh, what is the goal, how much of your weight is actual muscle mass - answering these questions will lead you to the dosage you require

please note that a wet compound promotes more estrogen aromatization. and in turn the development of gynecomastia; and dianabol in particular aromatases into methylestradiol. What this means is that if you either have pubertal gynecomastia OR carry higher bodyfat then you should use tamoxifen, every day of the cycle at 20mg ED. Tamoxifen will prevent you from getting/worsening gyno.

proposed for a dry first time cycle, turinabol; at a rule of thumb I've found an acceptable turinabol dosage is double your dianabol dosage, this puts the bracket from *40mg-100mg*, answering the same questions as above will lead you towards the acceptable dosage

How long can you run these for..? this again- person dependant. But if timestamped, anything from 4weeks, through to 8 is acceptable, 6-8 weeks being my preference

*Do I need a PCT for an oral only cycle?*

if following the above timescales, and dosage scales; PCT is negligible and down to you, do your research and see for yourself if it is applicable, as you will get conflicting answers where ever you ask.

IF you do decide to use PCT, then a simple 4 weeks of tamoxifen at 20mg ED, with clomid at 100mg ED for two weeks, then 50mg ED clomid for the remaining two weeks should suffice.

Id like to point out that the clomid dose is variable - and down to the person, impossible to tell how much you require, how much is too much - without bloodwork. However the tamoxifen dosage is not variable, 20mg ED is always the proposed dosage



*
Are you able to inject yourself?*

*
*

Providing you are able to follow safe injection technique (plenty of videos available on youtube, spotinjection.com). then the better of the two anabolic options is available to you (Testosterone)

a simple testosterone only cycle should ALWAYS be used as the first injectable cycle - this is because it lets you asses your bodys conversion of testosterone.

Testosterone comes in different esters, it depends whether you would like to jab once a week or every other day. please research into the ester attaching testosterone in order to come to the conclusion which to use, for laymen terms and this post I will describe the cycle using long estered test (Enanthate).

Testosterone Enanthate* 400-600mg *for 10-12 weeks

above is acceptable dosage for the beginner, Enanthate is only really 'felt' after a month of use (once blood plasma levels rise)

this leaves opportunity for an oral to be used along side - this is called a cycle 'kickstart'

Testosterone Enanthate *400-600mg **10-12 weeks*

Turinabol *40-100mg 4-6 weeks*

*
*above is an acceptable first cycle with kickstart, and with the core anabolic compounds in place you can then weigh up your options for ancillaries.

I suggest that HCG should be used at the dosage of 1000iu Per week, from week2 of the anabolic cycle, throughout to the last jab.

Please see here for information on HCG; http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/55418-hcg-mixing-storing-dosing.html

along with HCG, keeping your estrogen in check is also a REQUIREMENT, it will increase the speed and effectiveness of your recovery, and keeping a healthy balance of Estrogen will also keep other hormones in check (all hormones directly affect each other)

I suggest Arimidex, beginning at 0.5-1mg E3D, an effective way to take this dose is 1 day after the jab if using long estered testosterone, or the same day if using short (propionate)

You can increase this dosage, but for the majority of people will never need to go above 1mg EOD, if you are sensitive to gyno, then use tamoxifen at 20mg ED instead, pounding your estrogen low will only cause problems or even make gyno worse.

With the use of HCG on cycle - PCT with the above compounds is again negligible - however if through your research you want to run PCT ontop of the HCG on cycle (A REQUIREMENT of using AAS)

then I suggest the same protocol as the oral, 4 weeks of tamoxifen at 20mg ED, and Clomid split AM/PM at 100mg for 4 weeks, or 2 weeks with a lower dosage.

the time to begin PCT with the use of injectable hormones is highly discussable, however accurately to work out it would be a ball ache by using the following post

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/238593-steroid-half-lives.html

from here you can see the half life of the compounds, and ultimately work out when a single dose will have left the body, some clever maths which i cannot do lol you could see the total of all your dosages to leave the body.

However for the above cycle, I would personally say 3 weeks. there is *no* point of using pct meds untill its cleared.

Enjoy and as ive said throughout this post *be smart*

*
*

*
*Some more very broad topics posted by people in this industry you are stupid not to listen to

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/38654-steroids-everything-you-ever-wanted-know.html

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/47593-understanding-pct.html

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/238593-steroid-half-lives.html

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/22341-steroid-information-beginners.html


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Nice post Mark, may get sticky status


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

One thing : I believe latest thinking is 500iu twice per week for HCG. Maybe @Mars can confirm?


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## humble_guy (Oct 14, 2013)

nice post mate.. I was gonna kick start my next cycle with Dianabol but now after reading your post I am thinking about turinabol.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Huntingground said:


> One thing : I believe latest thinking is 500iu twice per week for HCG. Maybe @Mars can confirm?


I believe it is either or mate, doesn't truly matter.

the only reason I can see for 500 twice a week is if HCG metabolises to estrogen badly for you, as 500 metabolises less than 1000,


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

humble_guy said:


> nice post mate.. I was gonna kick start my next cycle with Dianabol but now after reading your post I am thinking about turinabol.


either are good mate, like i wrote just depends on your goals!

Dianabol has that extra aromatisation so be aware of it when planning ancillaries is all really

I didnt write it on here but I actually like using my orals pre workout Only on training days


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

Some good info in there, nice post


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

good post mate, a lot of very very helpful info in an easy to read guide.


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## Spragga (Feb 16, 2009)

Great post mate....... :thumb:


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

whoever bogbrush is

you just made me p1ss myself when i saw 'bogbrush' has liked my post haha


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Its all lies! Just inject 2g of test eat loads of mcdonalds and get huuuge!! 

Good info, its amazing how many people as for this info so may well be a sticky.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> I thought I'd contribute in the form of a post that would hang around as first cycle stuff comes along all the time...If anyone has a different opinion to me and replies with so I will happily add to the original post along side my own (or instead of if I have wrote incorrect information)
> 
> To write this out methodically I will start from the beginning to the end process of your first steroid cycle, by writing out the questions you should be asking yourself
> 
> ...


Great job mate

Solid advice

Has this all came of the back of todays suger coma your prob in right now!


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## bogbrush (Sep 19, 2013)

:thumbup1:


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## Stu_76 (Sep 29, 2013)

Top post Mark, brings together a lot of useful information for beginners. Would perhaps suggest adding some info on the timing to start PCT following use of different esters, i.e. Prop 3-4 days, Enth 2-3 weeks from last jab etc.


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## Stu_76 (Sep 29, 2013)

Gets my vote for STICKY too!


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Stu_76 said:


> Top post Mark, brings together a lot of useful information for beginners. Would perhaps suggest adding some info on the timing to start PCT following use of different esters, i.e. Prop 3-4 days, Enth 2-3 weeks from last jab etc.





marknorthumbria said:


> the time to begin PCT with the use of injectable hormones is highly discussable, however accurately to work out it would be a ball ache by using the following post
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/238593-steroid-half-lives.html
> 
> ...


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## GeordieOak70 (Sep 16, 2013)

This realy should be a stickie great post


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bump for Those turning up to work this Monday morning with an overwhelming urge to inject steroids


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## mills91 (Sep 18, 2012)

Top post, someone should have done one of these and it should have been made a sticky long ago.

Nice one


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

mills91 said:


> Top post, someone should have done one of these and it should have been made a sticky long ago.
> 
> Nice one


could do with some verification of more knowlegable longer running members first....but its a start


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## Harry Axe Wound (Jul 1, 2013)

Fantastic post, thanks


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Harry Axe Wound said:


> Fantastic post, thanks


 :beer:


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## Yeahbuddy0211 (Dec 4, 2012)

Sticky this


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Yeahbuddy0211 said:


> Sticky this


don't think it would get sticky posted from my user, perhaps if a mod re-wrote it (as i have the english literacy skills of a 12 year old russian) then it would be acceptable.


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

Nice work Mark.

3 weeks into my first cycle just now.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

massmuscle said:


> Nice work Mark.
> 
> 3 weeks into my first cycle just now.


using an AI and HCG i hope


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Nice work pal


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

> this is a very controversial statement but I stand by it, you should ask yourself. Are you a d1ckhead? as from my experience, a d1ck head before using steroids; is just a bigger d1ck head afterwards. If your answer is yes - then have a look at yourself in the mirror and decide what person you want to be, as when on AAS or when coming off AAS - emotions can be amplified.


PAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

That's great advice mate! Specially the part about what you want to know in the blood test! Thanks! Get it STICKY:thumb:


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

chilisi said:


> I'm sure there's already one of these in the sticky section by Sports Doctor and one by Mars.
> 
> "So you want to take steroids"?
> 
> "Everything you want to know"


they are all referenced at the bottom of the OP, but they are technically written and not something a first time user would take in as easily as the OP


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

DazUKM said:


> PAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol:


its true, every cvnt I know is amplified of the scale when they use AAS


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## Clinton (Jun 7, 2012)

Fantastic post, especially for me as im just about to start my first cycle.

Just 1 question, you mention that a PCT is insignificant if HCG and an AI such as Arimidex is used on cycle, have i read this right? So what would you suggest to take after cycle, nothing?


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Clinton said:


> Fantastic post, especially for me as im just about to start my first cycle.
> 
> Just 1 question, you mention that a PCT is insignificant if HCG and an AI such as Arimidex is used on cycle, have i read this right? So what would you suggest to after cycle, nothing?


From an modern endo point of view HCG+AI is all that is required.

But for me It depends what was used mate, a simple test only cycle with HCG and AI used through out then further pct is down to the person as nobody can give you that answer 100% correct, personally I only run stronger cycles now and use both HCG, AI and clomid and tamoxifen In pct, if I was to run test only, Id probably just remain with the first two.


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## Clinton (Jun 7, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> From an modern endo point of view HCG+AI is all that is required.
> 
> But for me It depends what was used mate, a simple test only cycle with HCG and AI used through out then further pct is down to the person as nobody can give you that answer 100% correct, personally I only run stronger cycles now and use both HCG, AI and clomid and tamoxifen In pct, if I was to run test only, Id probably just remain with the first two.


Ok thanks, i will be doing a test e cycle only, i already have nolva so will keep it to hand just in case i suppose and try without a pct!


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> From an modern endo point of view HCG+AI is all that is required.
> 
> But for me It depends what was used mate, a simple test only cycle with HCG and AI used through out then further pct is down to the person as nobody can give you that answer 100% correct, personally I only run stronger cycles now and use both HCG, AI and clomid and tamoxifen In pct, if I was to run test only, Id probably just remain with the first two.


I may be wrong here but surely the point of using nolva in pct it to protect against rebound gyno whilst your body is finding its own natural estrogen levels ? so regardless of using hgc and an ai on cycle then I would have thought nolva at least would be a must during pct


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

P



Paz1982 said:


> I may be wrong here but surely the point of using nolva in pct it to protect against rebound gyno whilst your body is finding its own natural estrogen levels ? so regardless of using hgc and an ai on cycle then I would have thought nolva at least would be a must during pct


I'm quoting mars, I don't have references to hand - I state throughout that modern endo do not advocate anything other than AI and HCG

But I would personally use tamoxifen and clomid In pct on my cycles (tren)

What exactly is that a low/medium dose test only cycle, is not very suppressive, so If ever there was the time to not use cancerous drugs it'd be this

Edit: read again, missed the question, no if proper AI usage is in place you leave the cycle with correct estrogen that is the whole point


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> I'm quoting mars, I don't have references to hand - I state throughout that modern endo do not advocate anything other than AI and HCG
> 
> But I would personally use tamoxifen and clomid In pct on my cycles (tren)
> 
> What exactly is that a low/medium dose test only cycle, is not very suppressive, so If ever there was the time to not use cancerous drugs it'd be this


I can see the point of what your saying. i'm not trying to catch you out or anything, i'm just trying to understand a bit more myself, but what protection from gyno would you have during pct by not running anything in that time ? or do you think your estrogen levels would be normal enough between the time you stop your ai and test has cleared for gyno not to be a problem


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Paz1982 said:


> I can see the point of what your saying. i'm not trying to catch you out or anything, i'm just trying to understand a bit more myself, but what protection from gyno would you have during pct by not running anything in that time ? or do you think your estrogen levels would be normal enough between the time you stop your ai and test has cleared for gyno not to be a problem


Check my edit buddy


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Paz1982 said:


> I can see the point of what your saying. i'm not trying to catch you out or anything, i'm just trying to understand a bit more myself, but what protection from gyno would you have during pct by not running anything in that time ? or do you think your estrogen levels would be normal enough between the time you stop your ai and test has cleared for gyno not to be a problem


I also have bloods that show when coming of cycle with proper AI usage left estrogen mid/bottom of the range mate


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

@rectus want to make amends please gander at OP - im not a abstract stealer or whatever u said lol


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> I also have bloods that show when coming of cycle with proper AI usage left estrogen mid/bottom of the range mate


why do people choose to run nolva in pct at all after a test cycle when they have used an ai ? ive never heard of anyone say 'im dong 500mg test e for 10 weeks with adex and hcg throughout. my pct will be clomid 50/50/50/50 no need for nolva because I ran an ai'


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Paz1982 said:


> why do people choose to run nolva in pct at all after a test cycle when they have used an ai ? ive never heard of anyone say 'im dong 500mg test e for 10 weeks with adex and hcg throughout. my pct will be clomid 50/50/50/50 no need for nolva because I ran an ai'


I imagine mate Because nolva and clomid are synergistic mate work together better than alone, they have some similar tasks


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## houghm (Aug 1, 2013)

Doesn't it depend on the AI? I thought adex would have an estrogen rebound but aromasin - because it's suicidal in action - would not?

Therefore nolva on pct would make more sense after adex cycle?

I could be misremembering it though.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

houghm said:


> Doesn't it depend on the AI? I thought adex would have an estrogen rebound but aromasin - because it's suicidal in action - would not?
> 
> Therefore nolva on pct would make more sense after adex cycle?
> 
> I could be misremembering it though.


Not in my body atleast as my bloods show 6 weeks out 7 month cycle with low/med range estrogen .. Can't say much more than that without proof it was adex I used


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## ace man (Nov 2, 2010)

Nice post mate, some interesting reading regarding HCG & AI


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

@hackskii

hello mate, The OP is derived from every post I have ever read from yourself, and mars & my own research - you both had conflicting views but I tried to incorporate everything

Please could you pull apart what is incorrect so I know for my self as put half a days effort in to the post


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

STICKY...

Solid info in there as well.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@marknorthumbria - a few questions for you mate:

- why do you recommend turinabol in conjunction with the test e? Do you feel it's more effective than oxymetholone, stanozolol, oxandrolone?

- you recommend the oral (i.e. turinabol for the first 4-6 weeks. Would it be even better to run it for the entire duration of the cycle?

- do you run the HCG and adex right until you start PCT (if doing)? Thus you may run HCG and adex without AAS for a period of perhaps even 3 weeks)

Cheers mate.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

- why do you recommend turinabol in conjunction with the test e? Do you feel it's more effective than oxymetholone, stanozolol, oxandrolone?

personal decision mate I have used every compound but turinabol is dry, this lets you gauge your amount of aromatization of the testosterone you are using. I am using winny right now but it is a killer on the joints as a personal reason why tbol over winny for the first go, you can use what you like as ive stated throughout its more opinion and experience

- you recommend the oral (i.e. turinabol for the first 4-6 weeks. Would it be even better to run it for the entire duration of the cycle?

the entire duration is too long for an Oral, its whole point is a kickstart untill the test blood plasma levels in the test are full flow then you get to see how the compound reacts in your body,

if you only take the oral 2 hours pre workout say every other day when you train then it is possible to extend longer ( i do this)

- do you run the HCG and adex right until you start PCT (if doing)? Thus you may run HCG and adex without AAS for a period of perhaps even 3 weeks)

HCG is 1000iu PW from week2, all the way through to the ester clearing jabs, I like to go all the way untill pct, but with such a mild cycle - with the last jab, or one after the last jab should suffice

adex i lower the dose as the esters are clearing, can tell in my body quite easily when too high and when too low due to pubertal gyno basically being a fecking beacon lol


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

why do you recommend turinabol in conjunction with the test e? Do you feel it's more effective than oxymetholone, stanozolol, oxandrolone?

personal decision mate I have used every compound but turinabol is dry, this lets you gauge your amount of aromatization of the testosterone you are using. I am using winny right now but it is a killer on the joints as a personal reason why tbol over winny for the first go, you can use what you like as ive stated throughout its more opinion and experience

- you recommend the oral (i.e. turinabol for the first 4-6 weeks. Would it be even better to run it for the entire duration of the cycle?

the entire duration is too long for an Oral, its whole point is a kickstart untill the test blood plasma levels in the test are full flow then you get to see how the compound reacts in your body,

if you only take the oral 2 hours pre workout say every other day when you train then it is possible to extend longer ( i do this)

- do you run the HCG and adex right until you start PCT (if doing)? Thus you may run HCG and adex without AAS for a period of perhaps even 3 weeks)

HCG is 1000iu PW from week2, all the way through to the ester clearing jabs, I like to go all the way untill pct, but with such a mild cycle - with the last jab, or one after the last jab should suffice

adex i lower the dose as the esters are clearing, can tell in my body quite easily when too high and when too low due to pubertal gyno basically being a fecking beacon lol

@Bull Terrier forgot to quote


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Which oral do you think is best for increasing strength? I've heard many say that stanozolol is amazing. Your thoughts?

Also - do you have experience of some of the stronger pro-hormones like superdrol and m1t?


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Which oral do you think is best for increasing strength? I've heard many say that stanozolol is amazing. Your thoughts?
> 
> Also - do you have experience of some of the stronger pro-hormones like superdrol and m1t?


hello mate Again can only give personal advice

I have never used a pro hormone mate not In place to give advice

For strength, i have used 60mg Dianabol 2 hours pre workout to very great effect, only down side is painful pumps - taurine is a must

I like winny at the moment but my lifts are limited by painful joints, strength is there though


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I haven't used AAS for about 15 years or something stupid like that, and with hindsight my old cycles were incredibly poorly designed (although hindsight is 20/20 and protocols now are much better than the old ones which I used to use).

Having said that...my size and strength gains were absolutely amazing when I used to have oxymetholone in the mix at 100-150mg per day. These were the old pharmaceutical Anapolon 50.

I never got much out of Dianabol for some reason, but perhaps I never used enough. I don't think I ever went past about 30mg per day, and perhaps not even quite that, so perhaps I've answered my own question there lol.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> I haven't used AAS for about 15 years or something stupid like that, and with hindsight my old cycles were incredibly poorly designed (although hindsight is 20/20 and protocols now are much better than the old ones which I used to use).
> 
> Having said that...my size and strength gains were absolutely amazing when I used to have oxymetholone in the mix at 100-150mg per day. These were the old pharmaceutical Anapolon 50.
> 
> I never got much out of Dianabol for some reason, but perhaps I never used enough. I don't think I ever went past about 30mg per day, and perhaps not even quite that, so perhaps I've answered my own question there lol.


dianabol vs oxys mg for mg dbol is stronger but who takes 150mg of dbol your head would blow off lol

I am just not a fan of oxy even though a friend of mine (rick hall) very much so loves oxies, for the strength and the RBC benefit.

i think if i suggested oxies in here @pea head would drop a log


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Paul Borresson was a big fan of stanozolol as is A L Rea (Building the Perfect Beast). Hence my previous questions regarding it as compared to other orals.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Paul Borresson was a big fan of stanozolol as is A L Rea (Building the Perfect Beast). Hence my previous questions regarding it as compared to other orals.


Then use it mate but this thread is about a first cycle and I have listed the compounds with the reasons given, I have used winny,dbol,Tbol and the biggest strength gains personally came with dbol 2 hrs pre WO but there's nothing stopping you using both.

Paul Borresson liked a lot of drugs, I don't know much about him, just that he is kaput. Cant comment


----------



## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Good write up mate :beer:


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Elvis82 said:


> Good write up mate :beer:


Thank god you edited your post I was DYING to change 'right' to 'write' in a post lol


----------



## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> Thank god you edited your post I was DYING to change 'right' to 'write' in a post lol


Ha, just a lapse in concentration. I read it back to myself and realised what a thick s#it I was. Don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but maybe a bit of info regarding time off between oral and injectable cycles may be good info to give newbies a guideline to work to.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

@DiggyV

for your opinion on the OP...maybe a mod thatl pop in :lol:


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i love oxys need to really give dbol a go sometime though


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Sambuca said:


> i love oxys need to really give dbol a go sometime though


full dose orals 2 hrs preworkout only are the way forward like, ill never spread them again


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> full dose orals 2 hrs preworkout only are the way forward like, ill never spread them again


yep all i do as well lol

150mg androlic pwo :devil2:


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> @DiggyV
> 
> for your opinion on the OP...maybe a mod thatl pop in :lol:


Its a great post mate, covers it really well. You angling for Diamond or something? :lol:


----------



## donkeytwonk (Apr 12, 2012)

****ing ace post, thanks.


----------



## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

TL;DR who's got the cliffs for those with ADHD? :devil2:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Logman said:


> TL;DR who's got the cliffs for those with ADHD? :devil2:


Take 10ml of tren everyday


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> Its a great post mate, covers it really well. You angling for Diamond or something? :lol:


A sticky mate more over, this question gets asked a lot


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Logman said:


> TL;DR who's got the cliffs for those with ADHD? :devil2:


I don't understand mate? Lol


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> A sticky mate more over, this question gets asked a lot


Don't worry I knew :tt2: and has already been reviewed and discussed in the MOD lounge.  The stickies are having an overhaul right now, but your post is already noted and on the list. It will be discussed further when final selections are made.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

North Eastern lads are where it's at


----------



## brianna01782 (Sep 6, 2013)

I having my first cycle after christmas ,Im doing anavar and clen on my cutting cycle 

Ive been doing gym 3 years and my meals are right ,but I need that little extra

would u run anything else


----------



## GeordieOak70 (Sep 16, 2013)

STICKIEEEEEEEEEEEEE


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> Don't worry I knew :tt2: and has already been reviewed and discussed in the MOD lounge.  The stickies are having an overhaul right now, but your post is already noted and on the list. It will be discussed further when final selections are made.


The above happen/not happen my man?


----------



## shadow4509 (Jan 27, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> From an modern endo point of view HCG+AI is all that is required.
> 
> But for me It depends what was used mate, a simple test only cycle with HCG and AI used through out then further pct is down to the person as nobody can give you that answer 100% correct, personally I only run stronger cycles now and use both HCG, AI and clomid and tamoxifen In pct, if I was to run test only, Id probably just remain with the first two.


Great post mate and I completely agree with this statement! I never run PCT but always use HCG and an AI on cycle and continue to do so until 3 weeks after last jab while waiting for clearance.

I then run Vit d, Vit e, ZMA and DAA.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

shadow4509 said:


> Great post mate and I completely agree with this statement! I never run PCT but always use HCG and an AI on cycle and continue to do so until 3 weeks after last jab while waiting for clearance.
> 
> I then run Vit d, Vit e, ZMA and DAA.


Boron another one to throw in there mate, have it in the morning with vit D + E, the ZMA pre bed


----------



## shadow4509 (Jan 27, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> Boron another one to throw in there mate, have it in the morning with vit D + E, the ZMA pre bed


Yeah have considered boron before will chuck it in after next cycle.

Have never struggled with recovery though! I had my brain fog week start last Monday by Friday it had gone and morning wood was back.

Think it helps that I only run test and an oral. No 19nors for me!


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

shadow4509 said:


> Yeah have considered boron before will chuck it in after next cycle.
> 
> Have never struggled with recovery though! I had my brain fog week start last Monday by Friday it had gone and morning wood was back.
> 
> Think it helps that I only run test and an oral. No 19nors for me!


borons a good one mate..dont over do it though as it can be supressive, 6mg in the morning is fine

with 19nors i would run both tamoxifen and clomid after tbf, with test only its not massively suppressive, you do well to stick to that. youl have a much healthier hpta than us who smash androgens haha


----------



## shadow4509 (Jan 27, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> borons a good one mate..dont over do it though as it can be supressive, 6mg in the morning is fine
> 
> with 19nors i would run both tamoxifen and clomid after tbf, with test only its not massively suppressive, you do well to stick to that. youl have a much healthier hpta than us who smash androgens haha


Yeah I have good self control.

I do always keep my cycles to 10 weeks as well. Although I'm considering 20 weeks. With HCG and AI do you still think natural recovery is possible after 20 weeks?


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

shadow4509 said:


> Yeah I have good self control.
> 
> I do always keep my cycles to 10 weeks as well. Although I'm considering 20 weeks. With HCG and AI do you still think natural recovery is possible after 20 weeks?


make it 15 weeks mate, its androgens like deca which are more use in longer cycles, anabolics not so much as they convert to all hormones in the body, eventually the body starts to say feck off.


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> The above happen/not happen my man?


It is still being looked at, the post was recognised as a good post, so I may sticky it anyway in the interim.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

DiggyV said:


> It is still being looked at, the post was recognised as a good post, so I may sticky it anyway in the interim.


me likes you


----------



## Zmoney (Aug 27, 2013)

Good post mate, very convenient to have all the different aspects of a successful cycle in one post. Do you know how much those Nuffield Health blood test jobbies comes to? I had some bloods done at a GP but he'll know I'm just taking the p if I keep coming back through a cycle to track my bloods, I'd rather just pay no questions asked.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Zmoney said:


> Good post mate, very convenient to have all the different aspects of a successful cycle in one post. Do you know how much those Nuffield Health blood test jobbies comes to? I had some bloods done at a GP but he'll know I'm just taking the p if I keep coming back through a cycle to track my bloods, I'd rather just pay no questions asked.


200-300 bar mate for all the hormones , if you get only one or two hormones it can be as cheap as 50-100


----------



## Zmoney (Aug 27, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> 200-300 bar mate for all the hormones , if you get only one or two hormones it can be as cheap as 50-100


Thanks mate, bit pricey but a small price to pay for your health.


----------



## James s (Sep 18, 2010)

An interesting read for sure, thanks Mark.


----------



## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Just seen this thread for a first time and it's very interesting! Was wondering though, do you still need to do a blood test for orals?


----------



## Zmoney (Aug 27, 2013)

cgospodinov said:


> Just seen this thread for a first time and it's very interesting! Was wondering though, do you still need to do a blood test for orals?


Mate all these AAS will mess with your hormones, shut you down in varying ways etc etc. So it's good to know what you were like before it all in case something does unfortunately go wrong after a cycle then at least you can compare and get a better clue what's going on.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

cgospodinov said:


> Just seen this thread for a first time and it's very interesting! Was wondering though, do you still need to do a blood test for orals?


Orals aren't massively suppressive but still play with hormones, prolactin, estrogen, test

A blood test is not neasecary to run a cycle

But 5 years down the line after using gear wouldn't it be nice to have a little blood panel of what your numbers were before you touched anything? Go to the GP's blag one!


----------



## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> Orals aren't massively suppressive but still play with hormones, prolactin, estrogen, test
> 
> A blood test is not neasecary to run a cycle
> 
> But 5 years down the line after using gear wouldn't it be nice to have a little blood panel of what your numbers were before you touched anything? Go to the GP's blag one!


Thanks for the reply mate and well done for making the thread. I was just curious because there is a PT that I know down the gym who uses either Anadrol or Dianabol and said you don't need blood tests for orals.


----------



## biggiejohnson (Mar 23, 2013)

great post, very helpful, stands a chance of some people realising their said "dickheads" before ultimately becoming bigger ones!...thanks


----------



## jordyboy85 (Nov 18, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I haven't used AAS for about 15 years or something stupid like that, and with hindsight my old cycles were incredibly poorly designed (although hindsight is 20/20 and protocols now are much better than the old ones which I used to use).
> 
> Having said that...my size and strength gains were absolutely amazing when I used to have oxymetholone in the mix at 100-150mg per day. These were the old pharmaceutical Anapolon 50.
> 
> I never got much out of Dianabol for some reason, but perhaps I never used enough. I don't think I ever went past about 30mg per day, and perhaps not even quite that, so perhaps I've answered my own question there lol.


I am just not a fan of oxy even though a friend of mine (rick hall) very much so loves oxies, for the strength and the RBC benefit.

...are you trying to claim that Rick Hall is not natural? He's built up a reputation for being a natural bodybuilder and I've personally emailed him

to ask him this as I wasn't convinced.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

jordyboy85 said:


> I am just not a fan of oxy even though a friend of mine (rick hall) very much so loves oxies, for the strength and the RBC benefit.
> 
> ...are you trying to claim that Rick Hall is not natural? He's built up a reputation for being a natural bodybuilder and I've personally emailed him
> 
> to ask him this as I wasn't convinced.


Lol I've never seen a name drop as bad as this, what's your name I'll let rick know your comments next time I see him lol


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

jordyboy85 said:


> I am just not a fan of oxy even though a friend of mine (rick hall) very much so loves oxies, for the strength and the RBC benefit.
> 
> ...are you trying to claim that Rick Hall is not natural? He's built up a reputation for being a natural bodybuilder and I've personally emailed him
> 
> to ask him this as I wasn't convinced.


Are you arguing with yourself?


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Galaxy said:


> Are you arguing with yourself?


Not quite sure what's going on there!

I'm a little confused too, only came into the thread to suggest the Raleigh Grifter.


----------



## stew82 (Aug 19, 2013)

had a check of that first huge post and checked out lol


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

stew82 said:


> had a check of that first huge post and checked out lol


Eh?


----------



## stew82 (Aug 19, 2013)

Galaxy said:


> Eh?


its quite a read lol


----------



## jordyboy85 (Nov 18, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> dianabol vs oxys mg for mg dbol is stronger but who takes 150mg of dbol your head would blow off lol
> 
> I am just not a fan of oxy even though a friend of mine (rick hall) very much so loves oxies, for the strength and the RBC benefit.
> 
> i think if i suggested oxies in here @pea head would drop a log


i'm quoting your namedrop. in light of the admission he made to me (prior to me getting my wallet out to purchase his lets add mass program)

that he had never used steroids


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

jordyboy85 said:


> i'm quoting your namedrop. in light of the admission he made to me (prior to me getting my wallet out to purchase his lets add mass program)
> 
> that he had never used steroids


He may not use him self but knows a lot about everything, he can give gear advice without using


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

jordyboy85 said:


> i'm quoting your namedrop. in light of the admission he made to me (prior to me getting my wallet out to purchase his lets add mass program)
> 
> that he had never used steroids


Marks quote was a joke if you knew who pea head is....

And why would he admit to you he uses AAS?? He's after all a business man and shouting he uses AAS is just stupid for his line of work imo


----------



## BigT9012 (Dec 27, 2013)

Hi guys

Just coming the end of my first corse of steroids taking testosterone propionate 1mg twice a week a little growth but not much hoping for more towards the end of the corse wondering what roids to do next going to Australia in march/april need big results fast can anyone help ?


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

BigT9012 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Just coming the end of my first corse of steroids taking testosterone propionate 1mg twice a week a little growth but not much hoping for more towards the end of the corse wondering what roids to do next going to Australia in march/april need big results fast can anyone help ?


2mg per week....its really strange you never grew. :whistling:


----------



## BigT9012 (Dec 27, 2013)

That doesn't really help me does it im asking what steroids to do for my next co****


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

BigT9012 said:


> That doesn't really help me does it im asking what steroids to do for my next co****


Read the first post mate, explains all you need to know, consider yourself doing your first not your second as you made a few errors


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

BigT9012 said:


> That doesn't really help me does it im asking what steroids to do for my next co****


But you obviously dont know what ur doing for you first cycle.

Your doses arent right

Prop should be jabbed every other day

You also gave no information at all on how long you ran it for, years training, age, weight and diet.


----------



## Zmoney (Aug 27, 2013)

Just thought I'd add from the talk about blood tests a bit back, that I rang my local Nuffield Health (Cambridge) and they said I'd need a GP referral to get a blood test from them which is a bit of a shame as I reckon I've blagged my GP too many times now!


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Zmoney said:


> Just thought I'd add from the talk about blood tests a bit back, that I rang my local Nuffield Health (Cambridge) and they said I'd need a GP referral to get a blood test from them which is a bit of a shame as I reckon I've blagged my GP too many times now!


Go through blue horizon and they will may a contact at that Nuffield health which will bypass the gp's


----------



## NotSoBig (Jun 28, 2013)

Going to try and get bloodwork done later, wish me luck! Got 3 vials of Test E waiting to be jabbed!


----------



## luke.lean (Sep 6, 2013)

Chest lacks


----------



## paulmcgrath92 (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks very much for the brilliant guide. I've been all over the internet looking for a guide as clear as this.

The level of detail is brilliant and will help alot of people from suffering negative side-effects.

Before reading this guide I was very hesitant about starting my test e cycle but now I'm very excited :thumb:

Fair play to ya pal!


----------



## corum (Jan 23, 2014)

Ok so my very first post got deleted for being a little too forward.

So, for a second attempt.

Thanks to the OP for the guide, it really was quite informative. I used to train regularly in my late 20's but always avoided the gear due to concerns about side effects. Now i'm in my mid 40's the idea of a bit of temporary shrinkage here and there as a trade off doesn't seem so bad and what with the internet there's a lot more good (and bad) information around these days to help people make an informed decision.

So now i'm back into regular training, albeit just for a few weeks so far I've been reading around for a few days and was considering var but after reading this thread I quite like the sound of Turanabol as being the lower risk and most cost effective option for running solo (I don't have mega bucks to spend on stacks and would rather avoid injections).


----------



## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

corum said:


> Ok so my very first post got deleted for being a little too forward.
> 
> So, for a second attempt.
> 
> ...


You've been training a few weeks and you believe you're ready to jump on gear? This is a serious question by the way.

I was similar to you trained extensively in my late teens and twenties (but did run cycles) then trained intermittently for about 15 years, and then got back into it heavily, but put a good 12 months in first before considering running anything. You need to ensure all the muscles are back to where they need to be, your diet and recovery are nailed and then think about it, this in my opinion takes more than a few weeks even if it ran into a few months I would suggest more time. I didn't feel I was ready until 12 months down the line, and this was after an early career training with and prepping national level champs, so knew exactly what I would be taking when I was ready, and how to get the best from it.


----------



## corum (Jan 23, 2014)

Ok, thanks for the advice. Methinks I need to continue researching for a bit longer and as you say, get a few more sessions (and protein shakes) in before thinking about jumping on the gear. It's not the sort of thing I would do on a regular basis but am tending to think that a 10 week cycle every twelve months or so wouldn't be too risky (or costly).

Incidentally, when clomid and nolvadex are used for test - e pct, are they normally taken orally? I can see that clomid comes as both tablet and injectable.


----------



## stanmoor (Feb 9, 2014)

Great intro, have a couple of questions though.

Firstly - you say for a beginner, they should run a test only cycle. But then in the next paragraph you're talking about Turinabol - is this because it's an oral? So basically, for your first cycle you should only be injecting test, but you can combine this with an oral?

Also, what's the recommended 'gap' to take between cycles?

Thanks


----------



## micros (May 15, 2013)

Good post Mark, it approaches many aspects from beginners (as I am) point of view and gives the right position to parts like nutrition, training ad rest which are not so often well-considered.

I would like to express some doubts, I know I am new here and pretty "virgin" and I don't want to seem opportunistic so I don't expect replies, anyway I need to start somewhere and I thank you in advance for it.

I'm very interested in the subject, I did some research about it, but right now ideas are quite messy and I am here to scatter the cloud.

I am a cautious type -not that taking steps in that direction is a cautious behavior  - and I found some kind of "documentation" about "short cycles", 2-3-4 weekers approached by using fast acting AAS, some with large amount doses some not.

They say that results are modest in respect of a 8-12 weeks or longer cycles, but the PCT is faster and the gain retaining percentace after the PCT is higher , they talk about very light PCT, only 2-3 weeks using clomiphen and tamoxifen.

What do you think? Am I a fool?

Thanks again


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

stanmoor said:


> Great intro, have a couple of questions though.
> 
> Firstly - you say for a beginner, they should run a test only cycle. But then in the next paragraph you're talking about Turinabol - is this because it's an oral? So basically, for your first cycle you should only be injecting test, but you can combine this with an oral?
> 
> ...


recommended gap is that you take a blood test, id say around 10-12 weeks after your cycle and go from there

there's no way i could recommend a gap without tests

however time on = time off + pct (or in this case when esters have cleared) is usually a safe way to go about it

and a first cycle is perfectly acceptable to use both a test base + oral, test base alone or oral alone


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

micros said:


> Good post Mark, it approaches many aspects from beginners (as I am) point of view and gives the right position to parts like nutrition, training ad rest which are not so often well-considered.
> 
> I would like to express some doubts, I know I am new here and pretty "virgin" and I don't want to seem opportunistic so I don't expect replies, anyway I need to start somewhere and I thank you in advance for it.
> 
> ...


im sorry but I cant see a specific question with your post, more a ramble

can you numerically point your questions for me

1. question

2. question

etc


----------



## micros (May 15, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> im sorry but I cant see a specific question with your post, more a ramble
> 
> can you numerically point your questions for me
> 
> ...


Hi,

starting with bulking cycles:

1. What do you think about short cycles? Do they worth?

2. Could they be less HAPTA invasive to let you recover in a faster way and with less drugs and consequently the gains to be less affected after the cycle?

3. Considering not exagerated doses and not a large number of compounds, could be better a medium/long cycle or more frequent short cycle in terms gains retaining over the year?

Could be effective consider short cycles in cutting phases?

Thanks,

m


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

my answers are obviously just my own opinion from experience and friends experience however it is really down to the individual, everyones so different.



micros said:


> 1. What do you think about short cycles? Do they worth?
> 
> *yes they work, but in my eyes, why cut short the cycle when the catabolic hormones have not even begun to rise yet, its not something id do as you will recover just fine with a standard cycle hcg and AI use..*
> 
> ...


----------



## micros (May 15, 2013)

Thanks Mark,

I hope not to be over-speculative.



micros said:


> 1. What do you think about short cycles? Do they worth?





marknorthumbria said:


> *yes they work, but in my eyes, why cut short the cycle when the catabolic hormones have not even begun to rise yet, its not something id do as you will recover just fine with a standard cycle hcg and AI use..*.


What do you mean "when the catabolic hormones have not even begun to rise yet"?



micros said:


> 2. Could they be less HAPTA invasive to let you recover in a faster way and with less drugs and consequently the gains to be less affected after the cycle?





marknorthumbria said:


> *the HPTA will rebound different depending on the quantity, and the type of drugs used of course that is a no brainer; androgens for example keeping it down the hardest..*.


I'm asking if the time factor is so important though, as the people who sponsor that kind of cycles the most stated. The say that the time factor is more than proportionally harder with HPTA and side effects.



micros said:


> 3. Considering not exagerated doses and not a large number of compounds, could be better a medium/long cycle or more frequent short cycle in terms gains retaining over the year?





marknorthumbria said:


> *I keep all my gains off cycle with standard cycles.. its more about your nutrition, training and lifestyle choices rather than the type of cycle you do..short long low dose or high, if you eat sh!t youl go back to sh!t .*.


That's a relief, I hope to do the same.

Thanks,

m


----------



## luke.lean (Sep 6, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> my answers are obviously just my own opinion from experience and friends experience however it is really down to the individual, everyones so different.


mark u seem to know your stuff well done mate. Can you tell me why i have not noticed my cycle and week 5 test cyp at 500per week


----------



## help.me (Apr 9, 2014)

Hi can any one help me . Just started testanon 250. Only have 2ml a week (500mg) with me taking a low amount and it been on its own do I need to take pct or anything else with this. And before any one says do your research first I have . But theres alot or mixed comments on this. Need help asap. On week 2 of a 5 week course


----------



## Carson212 (Apr 9, 2014)

need a little help, this is my 3rd cycle my buds came onto Test 400, its newer to me, I have done simply test e 500mg 12 week cycles with only needing pct for my second cycle, nayone have some info on test 400


----------



## sammyt (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi guys. Very new to all this never really been on a forum! Was just hoping for a bit of advise and a few tips. Iv been training on and off for the past 4 years, have just been getting back into it over the past 2 months after putting my back out and not lifting for nearly 20 weeks!! Been absolutely devastating happy to be back now though! Anyway back to the point, iv been contemplating trying steroids, if I can ever find a reliable source -.- was thinking a 12 week cycle 500mg test enanthate p/w and 25mg dianabol every day for first 6weeks, and for PCT 3 weeks of nolvadex 40mg every day first 2 weeks and 20mg every day for final week, does this sound like a good cycle to start with? Any help tips advise much appreciated, thanks


----------



## Crazymitchyoo (May 22, 2014)

First time using Dbol. confuse on how and when to take along with other supplements to take with.

2 [email protected]

4 [email protected]

They oral and 25mg each.

when should I take? before workouts etc.

other supplements I should take with? Milk thistle, Test booster inhibotors, etc

could use some help. Thanks in advance


----------



## abtinsalari (May 27, 2014)

hey guys , im 24 years old 6ft 170lb and i want using anavar 30mg ED and testestrone enanthat 100mg weekly for 8 week, is it good ?or its low ?whats result ?this cycle can increase my body ability ?for pct what can i do?use tamoxifen and clomid is enough?or take hcg?


----------



## Crazymitchyoo (May 22, 2014)

first cycle on Dbol only. any advice on:

when should I take it? mornings, before workouts, etc

What else should I supplement with Dbol only? milk thistle, test booster, blockers, etc.

I'm doing 50mg pill. two 25mg a day.

please advice thanks


----------



## wat_is_this (Jun 26, 2013)

Crazymitchyoo said:


> first cycle on Dbol only. any advice on:
> 
> when should I take it? mornings, before workouts, etc
> 
> ...


You can space the dbol out, 1 when you wake up and one before going gym (if you go in the evening) or before bed.


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## Crazymitchyoo (May 22, 2014)

Thanks. Any other supplements I should be considering to protect myself? I read and hear about blockers, & milk thistle for liver.


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## themunk (Jun 8, 2014)

Hi all. New to this site so dnt no if im posting in the correct place. I am 32 196lbs 5ft8" I am slightly overweight beer gut and man breasts due to a year of overindulging. I have recently restarted the gym with a cardio workout in the morning and weights in the evening 4to5 days a week. I am thinking of starting a cycle. I hev been told deca and sus for 12 weeks 1ml of each twice a week. Would this be anygoid with me havnt a small gut and make it worse or would this help shape me and get rid of the fat. I am happy with my size just want to turn it into lean muscle with flat ripped stomach. Please advise just adding I have stopped drinking and my diet is pretty good


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## Faktalay (Mar 13, 2014)

Ostarine Pct


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## nath_pye (Oct 27, 2013)

Could Turinabol be run alone for a first ever cycle? if so at what dose?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

nath_pye said:


> Could Turinabol be run alone for a first ever cycle? if so at what dose?


Yes. 80-100mg ED


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## foxlab (Jun 20, 2014)

lovely instruction . have learn a lot and this will help all my customers that i sell steroid to.... thanks mark


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

@marknorthumbria

in the opening post it says Dianobol is a 'wet' compound and aromatises more so will effect gyno and worsen it from puberty/high body fat

with Turinabol being a 'dry' compound, does is still araomatise as much to effect pre-existing gyno as much as dbol, so would I still need tamoxifin?

im tempted to run a first oral cycle in the winter to bulk on but have mild puberty gyno, so wouldnt want to worsen it or use a AAS which is particularly related to causing gyno like dbol


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## raidon (Mar 5, 2014)

Legit Turinabol wont aromatize at all and wont effect your gyno.

If you take dbol, take some Arimidex with it to inhibit estro and you should be fine also.


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## Mfearnon (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm running a test e 300/tren e 200 ten week cycle. I have arimidex and tamoxifen on hand. If I run tamoxifen alongside the cycle, how would the PCT work after? Go off the tamoxifen for three weeks then start it again?


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## raidon (Mar 5, 2014)

Mfearnon said:


> I'm running a test e 300/tren e 200 ten week cycle. I have arimidex and tamoxifen on hand. If I run tamoxifen alongside the cycle, how would the PCT work after? Go off the tamoxifen for three weeks then start it again?


I'd run arimidex alongside gear. When you stop gear, stop arimidex. When you start PCT do tamoxifen+clomid.


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## TEX (Jul 7, 2014)

Thanks for this mate! It's made starting the process to understanding my first cycle much clearer. Cheers!


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## Mfearnon (Mar 10, 2014)

Had gone into 3rd week before starting the arimidex, no problems until I started it, then I broke out in a rash and hives! Itchy as hell, might give it a miss now lol


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## King06 (Jul 12, 2014)

Good morning/afternoon/evening board members.

I'm from the US and have been researching steroids for the past 2 1/2 years. I have read countless "this is my first cycle should I,," articles, talked to guys who are on cycle in person, asked questions from board moderators, and have even been lucky enough to receive personal replies from several steroid bloggers. During my research I came across this board and this is the FIRST board I've seen where guys don't get FLAMED TO DEATH for asking questions. Kudos to you guys for helping newbies/soon to be first time users like myself.

My stats 44yrs old, 6'4 350lbs (down from 416lbs), bf% 39%, low test levels 141 and per my doctor should be at a minimum 341, no blood pressure, liver in good condition, cholesterol slightly up. My diet is good about 80% of the time and consists of the usual bodybuilding foods, chicken breast, broccoli, brown rice, yams, lean beef, turkey etc. Workout has been upper body 2x weekly, and lower body 2x weekly. I have ordered these items for my first cycle:

1 x GP Methan 10 (dianabol)

3 x GP Test Enanth 250

1 x GP Deca 250

3 x GP Anastrozole (Arimidex)

2 x GP Nolva (Nolvadex)

14 x Brand Fertomid 25 mg (Clomid)

1 x Clomid 50mg /30 tabs

I plan on 500mg test 1-12

250mg deca 1-10

dianabol 20mg 1-6

arimidex .25 mg 1-12

clomid & nolva pct

My goal is to lose body fat, increase my strength (I deal with criminals who like to fight so strength is essential) and gain some muscle. I understand many folks think beginner cycles should be test only, but I plan on going this route as I feel this will be best for me. I would appreciate comments from members who OVER 40 and preferably OVER 40 members who did their first cycle in their 40's. To any member who takes the time to comment, thank you in advance. Have a great day and thank you again for providing a site where people can get helpful advice without getting insulted.


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## Glenn_Anthony (Jul 17, 2014)

I've started my first cycle on One-Rip 200 (Test Propionate) (Drostanolone Propionate) (Trenbolone Acetate) I'm jabbing every other day so 4ml a week of this, this is my cutting cycle I wanted to know what to cycle with it like oral steroids and dosage?


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## BigArt23 (Jul 6, 2014)

Need some help guys. Used to be overweight but with some muscle lost pretty much all my weight and muscle weighting in at 200 pounds 6'7 inches tall 28 years old. 4 weeks im 211 pounds and feel much stronger. Obviously with full time work and going to school part time its difficult making time to cook proper meals but I get in about 2,500-3,000 calories a day with about 200-300 grams of protein. I also hit the gym for at least 1 hour 4 days a week. Started DBOL 40mg a day 4 weeks ago got 1 more week of it left but only seen a 10 pound gain that includes injecting t400 300mg every 5 days for 3 weeks now. my question is after 8 more weeks of injecting t400 and test e how long should I take a break before starting back up on my 2nd cycle? and should I take any PCTs knowing I want to do another cycle? any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## MrChowdhury (Jul 23, 2014)

Hi everyone

I was hoping someone can evaluate my proposed cycle?

Test Prop and Dbol

• Week 1-8 Test 200mg/3xw

• Week 1-4 Dbol 50mg/d

Anti Estrogen

• Week 1-8 Aromasin 12.5mg/day

PCT

• Week 9-12 Novadex 20mg/day

• Week 9-12 Clomid 100/100/50/50

And

• Hcg 250iu/3xw Weeks 1-8

Is it alright or should I tweak it a bit? I would do a longer cycle but I need the cycle as well as pct to finish in 12 weeks. Maybe 13 weeks max.

Any feedback will be appreciated


----------



## MrChowdhury (Jul 23, 2014)

Hi everyone

I was hoping someone can evaluate my proposed cycle?

Test Prop and Dbol

• Week 1-8 Test 200mg/3xw

• Week 1-4 Dbol 50mg/d

Anti Estrogen

• Week 1-8 Aromasin 12.5mg/day

PCT

• Week 9-12 Novadex 20mg/day

• Week 9-12 Clomid 100/100/50/50

And

• Hcg 250iu/3xw Weeks 1-8

Is it alright or should I tweak it a bit? I would do a longer cycle but I need the cycle as well as pct to finish in 12 weeks. Maybe 13 weeks max.

Any feedback will be appreciated


----------



## MrChowdhury (Jul 23, 2014)

raidon said:


> I'd run arimidex alongside gear. When you stop gear, stop arimidex. When you start PCT do tamoxifen+clomid.


Hi

I was hoping someone can evaluate my proposed cycle?

Test Prop and Dbol

• Week 1-8 Test 200mg/3xw

• Week 1-4 Dbol 50mg/d

Anti Estrogen

• Week 1-8 Aromasin 12.5mg/day

PCT

• Week 9-12 Novadex 20mg/day

• Week 9-12 Clomid 100/100/50/50

And

• Hcg 250iu/3xw Weeks 1-8

Is it alright or should I tweak it a bit? I would do a longer cycle but I need the cycle as well as pct to finish in 12 weeks. Maybe 13 weeks max.

Any feedback will be appreciated


----------



## raidon (Mar 5, 2014)

Seems legit.

You could do hcg once(500-1000iu) or twice a week(250-500iu), no need for 3x.


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> *Pre cycle blood work*
> 
> This is one that I cannot express the importance of, when you mess up your cycle and come on here for recovery advice, if you come here with bloodwork, either before or after your steroid cycle then we are able to assist in your recovery without guess work.
> 
> ...


Hey all. Done 3 cycles throughout my life and never got bloods done, which was a bad idea. I should be going to the GP sometime this week to request a blood test. Symptoms; lack of sex drive, morning wood, softer erections, gyno and lethargy. I've been talking to some knowledgeable folk on here and it's been suggested I ask for a hormone panel "testosterone both free and serum, T3, T4, estrogen (E2), SHBG, LH, FSH, could check prolactin too." Is LH leutenizing hormone and FSH follicle-stimulating hormone? I'm not sure what SHBG, nor the 'free and serum' and T3, T4, E2 are. It seems a little complicated to me. I need to know what these are, I want to be confident in knowing what I'm talking about when I suggest they should monitor these in my sample.

I'm guessing (and hoping) I'll be prescribed @hackskii protocol (HCG, clomid, nolva and maybe vitamin D). What's the purpose of taking vitamin D? I've been asking around and nobody local seems to sell it or know why it's used...

@marknorthumbria


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

UncleRoidz said:


> Hey all. Done 3 cycles throughout my life and never got bloods done, which was a bad idea. I should be going to the GP sometime this week to request a blood test. Symptoms; lack of sex drive, morning wood, softer erections, gyno and lethargy. I've been talking to some knowledgeable folk on here and it's been suggested I ask for a hormone panel "testosterone both free and serum, T3, T4, estrogen (E2), SHBG, LH, FSH, could check prolactin too." Is LH leutenizing hormone and FSH follicle-stimulating hormone? I'm not sure what SHBG, nor the 'free and serum' and T3, T4, E2 are. It seems a little complicated to me. I need to know what these are, I want to be confident in knowing what I'm talking about when I suggest they should monitor these in my sample.
> 
> I'm guessing (and hoping) I'll be prescribed @hackskii protocol (HCG, clomid, nolva and maybe vitamin D). What's the purpose of taking vitamin D? I've been asking around and nobody local seems to sell it or know why it's used...
> 
> @marknorthumbria


How long ago was your cycle?

What were the compounds and how much and how long were you on?


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

hackskii said:


> How long ago was your cycle?
> 
> What were the compounds and how much and how long were you on?


Hey Hacksii, good to hear from you! Bear with me here, I'm not good at remembering:

First cycle, October 2010 - 10 weeks Deca/Test E 250, 2ml of each per week. (Biggest mistake, worst crash).

Second cycle, May/June 2011 - 12 weeks on, Equipoise and test E, 2ml of each per week, but began with dianobol tablets, 300 at..... wait for it.... 5 per day. Coming off just did Nolva for 4 weeks. (Another bad cycle).

Final cycle, Feb 2014 - 10 weeks Tren acete, test prop, masteron (3 in 1 blend, pretty decent results) 3 x 1 ml per week, 100x dianobol tablets at 30mg per day, run Proviron throughout at 100ml per day I think. Coming off I did 4 weeks of Clomid at 50mg per day.

Came around a bit a while after each cycle, but I've never been back to normal, like I was before first cycle. Everything seemed to be getting back to normal after this final cycle, but then seemed to go back down, losing sex drive (never lost it on cycle), gyno flares up. Estro would have probably been a little higher than normal range due to previous cycles, but now it seems to be worse than ever. Taking Nolva at the moment to trying and make that go down. I've misused due to ill advice and now looking to rectify and stay natty. Will be getting bloods to help you guys advise me. I'm hoping I can get on the your HPTA protocol and get back to normal, though I do realise that may take time. Training is still going pretty well and my diet is good. I have noticed the hair on my chest doesn't grow back as quick as it used to...

Thanks guys, really appreciate your help.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

UncleRoidz said:


> Hey Hacksii, good to hear from you! Bear with me here, I'm not good at remembering:
> 
> First cycle, October 2010 - 10 weeks Deca/Test E 250, 2ml of each per week. (Biggest mistake, worst crash).
> 
> ...


Do you get morning wood, or night time erections?

Can you keep and or maintain an erection?

Can you achieve climax when masturbating without porn?

Even though testicular size means nothing for recovery do you have the general size of your nuts back?

I also assume you have not had bloods done right?


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Do you get morning wood, or night time erections?
> 
> Can you keep and or maintain an erection?
> 
> ...


Hacskii, it's like you've peeked into my life here lol. But I guess you're always dealing with this sorta thing...

Neither, but if I do they're only slight urges and nothing rock hard.

Hardly, it's difficult to do so. Has been that way often since steroid use.

Nope, totally reliant on porn....lol kinda laughing to myself as I explain this to you.

I'm not so sure as when I've been on/off I could never tell whether they changed size. I think they did hang a bit lower pre-steroid use though.

Yet to get bloods done, sometime this week hopefully via GP (NHS). I'll ask for the results and PM you them, but this is likely to be a couple of weeks. These symptoms are similar to what I was experiencing after my first ever cycle, though nowhere near as bad.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Its really hard to say without bloods.

Some part of me says the nuts are not working, another part is saying to just take clomid and move some of those numbers up.

I would like to see the numbers though.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

UncleRoidz said:


> Hacskii, it's like you've peeked into my life here lol. But I guess you're always dealing with this sorta thing...
> 
> Neither, but if I do they're only slight urges and nothing rock hard.
> 
> ...


on cycle have you ever used any oestrogen control? adex/aromasin? i dont see any in the list unless im blind

- if so this definately would be helping any sort of libido,

it could have pushed prolactin out too which will also suck.

get bloods, a full hormone panel then hackskii can help you


----------



## jonno2304 (Aug 20, 2014)

Hey i just bought sone metaxon-10 malay tiger dbol. Has anyone ever tried these and know if there real or not? Cheers


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> on cycle have you ever used any oestrogen control? adex/aromasin? i dont see any in the list unless im blind
> 
> - if so this definately would be helping any sort of libido,
> 
> ...


Well you aren't blind if you've read it.... You're correct. I took proviron (not sure if it's a SERM or AI?) on most recent course, I thought that would help.

What does high/low prolactin indicate for the subject being tested?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

UncleRoidz said:


> Well you aren't blind if you've read it.... You're correct. I took proviron (not sure if it's a SERM or AI?) on most recent course, I thought that would help.
> 
> What does high/low prolactin indicate for the subject being tested?


Either a type of steroid that interferes with prolactin, or GH, or a pituitary tumor.

Prolactin is highest after climax, and thus one of the reasons why men can not have multiple orgasms, and also this is one of the reasons for refractory periods for men.

Other than that, elevated prolactin can be caused by a prolactin secreting tumor.


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Either a type of steroid that interferes with prolactin, or GH, or a pituitary tumor.
> 
> Prolactin is highest after climax, and thus one of the reasons why men can not have multiple orgasms, and also this is one of the reasons for refractory periods for men.
> 
> Other than that, elevated prolactin can be caused by a prolactin secreting tumor.


Thanks, can this be helped though if taking the right 'medication' ?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

UncleRoidz said:


> Thanks, can this be helped though if taking the right 'medication' ?


Well, 99% of the time this would not ever be an issue.

Inhibiting prolactin for the hell of it is not wise, it can put leydig cells at risk and compromise immune function.


----------



## liamo (Aug 20, 2014)

Hi there thanks for the post. Its going to be my 1st time doing a anavar cycle I'm 36yrs old 16stone 5foot 9 and I was wondering what way to take it and what sort of diet to take as I said I'm a 1st time user I having done anything yet as I want to learn about everything 1st.


----------



## Ryan c (Aug 21, 2014)

Hello I am looking for advice I train 6 times a week and carry a lot of bf I am taking clen tabs to try and drop a bit of pudge I would like to start a course of anavar would this help me with reducing my bf and getting bigger ? Thanks for any help


----------



## Soldier123 (Aug 21, 2014)

I've got tri tren 150, test 400 just wondering if any could tell me if I should run together and how much a week ??


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

hackskii said:


> Either a type of steroid that interferes with prolactin, or GH, or a pituitary tumor.
> 
> Prolactin is highest after climax, and thus one of the reasons why men can not have multiple orgasms, and also this is one of the reasons for refractory periods for men.
> 
> Other than that, elevated prolactin can be caused by a prolactin secreting tumor.


well e2 and prolactin are opposing hormones so if this lad overused an AI i would see prolactin being an issue post cycle but has he is not i would expect to see e2 floating a little to high nevermind the hormone panel ( i wouldnt) even try assume what they are without numbers

i have a naturally high prolactin and it is the reason for my pubertal gynomastica, even thinking about a stressful time makes me pop a tit

@UncleRoidz

dont touch an AI, dont touch an anti prolactin. infact dont touch anything till you go get some numbers.. if your english bluehorizon medical will do


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> well e2 and prolactin are opposing hormones so if this lad overused an AI i would see prolactin being an issue post cycle but has he is not i would expect to see e2 floating a little to high nevermind the hormone panel ( i wouldnt) even try assume what they are without numbers
> 
> i have a naturally high prolactin and it is the reason for my pubertal gynomastica, even thinking about a stressful time makes me pop a tit
> 
> ...


I'll have the hormone panel by Wednesday. Yeah I'd say E2 is high. And I'll stop the nolva for now then if you think that's best.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

UncleRoidz said:


> I'll have the hormone panel by Wednesday. Yeah I'd say E2 is high. And I'll stop the nolva for now then if you think that's best.


no keep nolva in is your e2 is high, it wont cause any harm other than perhaps to SHBG but personally i wouldnt leave myself open to any gynomastica flare till i knew what was going on


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

marknorthumbria said:


> well e2 and prolactin are opposing hormones so if this lad overused an AI i would see prolactin being an issue post cycle but has he is not i would expect to see e2 floating a little to high nevermind the hormone panel ( i wouldnt) even try assume what they are without numbers
> 
> i have a naturally high prolactin and it is the reason for my pubertal gynomastica, even thinking about a stressful time makes me pop a tit
> 
> ...


Well, estrogen and prolactin are not opposing hormones.

Estrogen is a hormone that men need as well as women, if it is too high, you can get gyno, and low libido.

If estrogen is too low then you can have libido issues, compromised lipid profiles, bone loss, among other thigns.

Prolactin is a hormone that promotes lactation, or that is when the signal to the breasts to product milk or lactating nipples.

Prolactin is needed in men for leydig cell support, and immune function.

After sex prolactin is highest and thus one of the reasons why men can not achieve multiple orgasms as it is one of the issues behind the refractory periods in men.

Chinese many years ago realized that it can make men a bit crazy some times following sex with depression and even up to suicide in some men.

Direct nipple stimulation also raises localized prolactin in mens breast tissue.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

hackskii said:


> Well, estrogen and prolactin are not opposing hormones.
> 
> Estrogen is a hormone that men need as well as women, if it is too high, you can get gyno, and low libido.
> 
> ...


100% on all the points but for me personally, maybe opposing hormones is not the right term medically but it is how it works in my body , and everyone ive bumped into is they've tried to combat gyno with too much AI , it's the same every time, if prone just tamoxifen ED and 0.5adex EOD is maximum,

When I pushed my estrogen down I pushed my prolactin high had mid cycle bloods and post a few times, and happens with others usually recommend b6 in the absence of caber and issues are sorted one AI is reduced.

With an androgen in the mix i find with me personally, if E2 is too low, a lot of issues..and emphasises the prolactin needs wants and annoyances

And I can tell you I don't feel suicidal after shooting my load, my birds hot ha ha


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> no keep nolva in is your e2 is high, it wont cause any harm other than perhaps to SHBG but personally i wouldnt leave myself open to any gynomastica flare till i knew what was going on


I've sent these via PM but haven't had a reply yet. This was all I could get my hands on at the GP. If I need to check anything else I'll need to pay for it, I'd use one of the websites that people have suggested on here.

Prolactin - 252

FSH - 7.6

Estrogen - 124

All the following have 'serum' in front of them:

LH - 6.5 iu

Testosterone - 23.4 nmol/L

SHBG - 43 nmol/L

TSH - 1.21 mu/L

Free T4 - 15.0 pmol/L

Oestradiol - 124 pmol/L

Cholesterol - 3.7 nmol/L

HDL cholesterol - 1.0 nmol/L

Does anything seem abnormal to you? Cholesterol is okay, I'm lead to believe Test, LH and FSH are okay too. If estro is good, then how the hell does one explain these puffy nips!


----------



## mluke (Sep 1, 2014)

Great post


----------



## Fidodido411 (Feb 27, 2014)

First of all, let me start by saying Thanks a ton for this post. I am posting for the first time. I made huge mistake in the past on my first cycle (Don't know If it was even a cycle). I did not know much about anabolic steroids and no idea about diet and exercise. Saying this, I had no knowledge of what I was getting into and doing. I have started all over again. I am hitting the gym, my diet is solid (according to me), reading a lot and applying the knowledge. It's been just 6 weeks in the gym, I am back after a long time and this time I want to continue it for life long and stay fit!

My current goal is to loss body fat and gain lean muscle mass. I will be updating my profile soon. I am interested in anabolic steroids but as of now I will work as hard as I can naturally. I do not even have one year of training behind me. The reason I am posting here is because I like this forum and want to be a part of this community to learn as much as I can. If I ever decide to take anabolic steroids, I would like to begin my education now as early as possible. Once again thanks for the post.

Cheers guys!


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

UncleRoidz said:


> I've sent these via PM but haven't had a reply yet. This was all I could get my hands on at the GP. If I need to check anything else I'll need to pay for it, I'd use one of the websites that people have suggested on here.
> 
> Prolactin - 252
> 
> ...


You could do with list the reference ranges to go with the results mate

But going off my reference ranges, everything looks spot on, mid-high range test, same with estrogen and prolactin

There is nothing hormonally wrong here IMO

Suffering with depression or anything? Problems could be psychological


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> You could do with list the reference ranges to go with the results mate
> 
> But going off my reference ranges, everything looks spot on, mid-high range test, same with estrogen and prolactin
> 
> ...


I have the ranges and they're in range. I wanted to draw comparisons with somebody else's ranges and now you're the 2nd person to do so. Dismissing this as psychological problems is just daft IMO, it's more likely the long-term result of misuse. I'm staying off for a while and trying vitamin D with D asparitic acid. If I cycle again then it's likely to be anavar, test and HCG.


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

UncleRoidz said:


> I have the ranges and they're in range. I wanted to draw comparisons with somebody else's ranges and now you're the 2nd person to do so. Dismissing this as psychological problems is just daft IMO, it's more likely the long-term result of misuse. I'm staying off for a while and trying vitamin D with D asparitic acid. If I cycle again then it's likely to be anavar, test and HCG.


If it's not a hormonal issue then what do you think is the issue?


----------



## UncleRoidz (May 9, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> If it's not a hormonal issue then what do you think is the issue?


Don't know, but I can tell you what I don't think it is...

Things seem better right now so I think I'm back to where I was before most recent cycle. I'll give the vitamin D and D aspartic a whirl and see if things improve.


----------



## PainGain (Feb 15, 2014)

marknorthumbria said:


> I thought I'd contribute in the form of a post that would hang around as first cycle stuff comes along all the time...If anyone has a different opinion to me and replies with so I will happily add to the original post along side my own (or instead of if I have wrote incorrect information)
> 
> To write this out methodically I will start from the beginning to the end process of your first steroid cycle, by writing out the questions you should be asking yourself
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark, great post.

Only just got back on ukmuscle for a mooch so only just read it.

I am about to order a 12 week course as I go on holiday for new year. I was thinking Test E for the duration but wanted to run a hardener for the last 4-6 weeks. Would you reccommend attacking the Test E with Winny tablets at 100mg ED or an injectable Masterone. If Masterone would you say Ethenate or Prop and what dosage? Also would u run the hardener for 4 or 6 weeks?


----------



## PainGain (Feb 15, 2014)

PainGain said:


> Thanks Mark, great post.
> 
> Only just got back on ukmuscle for a mooch so only just read it.
> 
> I am about to order a 12 week course as I go on holiday for new year. I was thinking Test E for the duration but wanted to run a hardener for the last 4-6 weeks. Would you reccommend attacking the Test E with Winny tablets at 100mg ED or an injectable Masterone. If Masterone would you say Ethenate or Prop and what dosage? Also would u run the hardener for 4 or 6 weeks?


Was meant to say "Stacking" not "Attacking" lol!


----------



## PainGain (Feb 15, 2014)

Bump


----------



## LewMcC (Dec 5, 2012)

Hi I was thinking about starting my first cycle so ive been doing a bit of research, this site was recommended to me and I was wondering has anyone bought anything off them before and does it look like a good bundle?

Thanks for any help


----------



## PainGain (Feb 15, 2014)

LewMcC said:


> Hi I was thinking about starting my first cycle so ive been doing a bit of research, this site was recommended to me and I was wondering has anyone bought anything off them before and does it look like a good bundle?
> 
> https://crazybulk.com/stacks-combo-packages/bulking-stack.html
> 
> Thanks for any help


Would remove that link pal, likely to be a breach of the rules.


----------



## LewMcC (Dec 5, 2012)

Oooo crap sorry didnt know


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Looks like knock off ripoff to me.


----------



## PainGain (Feb 15, 2014)

Lovin the Rapido response to LewMcC question after I got Zero answers to mine lol!!


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

PainGain said:


> Thanks Mark, great post.
> 
> Only just got back on ukmuscle for a mooch so only just read it.
> 
> I am about to order a 12 week course as I go on holiday for new year. I was thinking Test E for the duration but wanted to run a hardener for the last 4-6 weeks. Would you reccommend attacking the Test E with Winny tablets at 100mg ED or an injectable Masterone. If Masterone would you say Ethenate or Prop and what dosage? Also would u run the hardener for 4 or 6 weeks?


Well, testosterone is the daddy of all steroids so by itself it is enough, no such thing as a hardener as they all increase muscle volume.

winny at 100mg may give you some stiff joints.


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## YoungCyclist (Oct 15, 2014)

Hi everyone, I've never done anything before but have been doing some homework as I'm not going to jump in with my eyes closed. Obviously I can learn a lot from websites but I wanted some feedback from some experienced guys that know what they're on about.

Im 26, a keen cyclist and wanted an edge. Obviously a lot of you are going to say, "Erythropoietin" but I don't have the cash for that!

I'm 6ft, weigh 11 stone (roughly 70kg), I do a little bit of running but mainly cycling.

I had a body composition done the other day and I know my body fat percentage is 9.8%.

I was toying with the idea of 20 mg oral Stanabol aka Stanazolol. Obviously protecting my body with some joint and liver aids, probably milk thistle. My worry with Stanabol is - can I afford to lose any fat as i've heard it's used in the cutting cycle, or will it provide me with that extra bit of power in my legs? Would upping my calorie intake combat this?

I will barely be doing any gym work, it'll be mainly on the bike. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## anonymous_user (Oct 22, 2014)

Excellent post OP. Particularly interested in blood work.


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## Macalfc (Oct 23, 2014)

Great post excellent clear concise info , Thanks !


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## brownhornet77 (Nov 12, 2014)

Excellent post. Very helpful. Haven't done a cycle in over 5 years. Do you think I should approach it as if it's my first ever cycle now? KISS?

Didn't do blood works last time and that was a mistake. This time I will spend the money and do the blood works


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

brownhornet77 said:


> Excellent post. Very helpful. Haven't done a cycle in over 5 years. Do you think I should approach it as if it's my first ever cycle now? KISS?
> 
> Didn't do blood works last time and that was a mistake. This time I will spend the money and do the blood works


Yes, start off with Test 500 EW as per Marks original post in this thread.


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## RowellS (Nov 20, 2014)

Beautiful post been waiting for a post like this for a while. Thanks Mate


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## jasegreyfr (Nov 21, 2014)

Very helpful post. I am defo considering turinabol. Very new to all of this where am I able to get this product. I dont really know anyone at my gym and to scared to ask


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## ZUKOSAURUS (Nov 23, 2014)

jasegreyfr said:


> Very helpful post. I am defo considering turinabol. Very new to all of this where am I able to get this product. I dont really know anyone at my gym and to scared to ask


No one is going to answer that question and you may get banned for even asking so you should probably delete it.

They are available on the internet though, so just use Google and research thoroughly.


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## jasegreyfr (Nov 21, 2014)

Oh really sorry I wasnt meening anything by it


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## ZUKOSAURUS (Nov 23, 2014)

Do you think HCG is required or do you recommend HCG for a 250mg/week test cycle (10 weeks)?

Tbol will be stacked for first 7 weeks but I guess that's irrelevant in terms of HCG requirement (i think?).


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## ZUKOSAURUS (Nov 23, 2014)

marknorthumbria said:


> I thought I'd contribute in the form of a post that would hang around as first cycle stuff comes along all the time...If anyone has a different opinion to me and replies with so I will happily add to the original post along side my own (or instead of if I have wrote incorrect information)............





ZUKOSAURUS said:


> Do you think HCG is required or do you recommend HCG for a 250mg/week test cycle (10 weeks)?
> 
> Tbol will be stacked for first 7 weeks but I guess that's irrelevant in terms of HCG requirement (i think?).


Must have had a brain fart then the main question I wanted the answer to is what dose of HCG would you recommend on a 250mg/test cycle, if you still recommend using it?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ZUKOSAURUS said:


> Must have had a brain fart then the main question I wanted the answer to is what dose of HCG would you recommend on a 250mg/test cycle, if you still recommend using it?


500iu twice a week throughout.


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## ZUKOSAURUS (Nov 23, 2014)

hackskii said:


> 500iu twice a week throughout.


So same as a 500mg cycle?

This this because natural shutdown is natural shutdown regardless of test dose? Still learning here


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ZUKOSAURUS said:


> So same as a 500mg cycle?
> 
> This this because natural shutdown is natural shutdown regardless of test dose? Still learning here


The gear wont change the amount of hCG you use.


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## notdorianyates (Nov 12, 2014)

marknorthumbria said:


> I thought I'd contribute in the form of a post that would hang around as first cycle stuff comes along all the time...If anyone has a different opinion to me and replies with so I will happily add to the original post along side my own (or instead of if I have wrote incorrect information)
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/22341-steroid-information-beginners.html


Great post bro. Thanks.


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## Dboy90 (Dec 4, 2014)

Top post. Would aromasin be ok to run on cycle and for pct instead of nolva. I'm prone to getting gyno and nolva does nothing for it.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Run the AI during and the SERM for PCT.


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## pussyboi (Jan 2, 2015)

Any recommendations as to which suppliers you guys use? Mine ran out of business and I am looking for an alternate...


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

pussyboi said:


> Any recommendations as to which suppliers you guys use? Mine ran out of business and I am looking for an alternate...


Tesco

Nice avi hahah


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## pussyboi (Jan 2, 2015)

Frandeman said:


> Tesco
> 
> Nice avi hahah


what lol .. I am serious


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## Dave_shorts (Jan 4, 2015)

This is a great thread. It's a shame more people don't read it. The information should be given out in gyms. Haha. ........if only


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## StevieRob (Jan 5, 2015)

I'm thinking of running 50mg Test and 50mg Tren every other day and 30mg Winstrol and 30mg Anavar every day for the 1st 6 weeks.

In weeks 2, 4 and 6 I'll be using 25mg Proviron every day. Then in week 7 I won't be running anything and from week 8 I'll be using 100mg Clomid everyday. In weeks 9 and 10 I'll be using 50mg Clomid everyday. This is my planned 10 week cycle.

Any opinions and advice would be much appreciated.


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## Mogadishu (Aug 29, 2014)

StevieRob said:


> I'm thinking of running 50mg Test and 50mg Tren every other day and 30mg Winstrol and 30mg Anavar every day for the 1st 6 weeks.
> 
> In weeks 2, 4 and 6 I'll be using 25mg Proviron every day. Then in week 7 I won't be running anything and from week 8 I'll be using 100mg Clomid everyday. In weeks 9 and 10 I'll be using 50mg Clomid everyday. This is my planned 10 week cycle.
> 
> Any opinions and advice would be much appreciated.


Are you seriously gonna use 4 diffrent compounds on your first cycle?


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## n666 (Jan 14, 2015)

i just need to ask something

my cycle will be

w 1-10 500mg test e EW (2x250 Mon-Th)

i got everything but i need to ask should i run my hcg from week 2 to week 10 or should i run it from day one to week 10 ?

some people said me i should run hcg from week 2 to week 12 (2 weeks prior pct since i got long ester running)

ofc il run AI > aromasin 12.5mg ed from day 1 to week 12 before start pct and my pct will be week 13-16 clomid 50/50/50/50 nolva 20/20/20/20 from

Please help me guys , i tried to open thread for two days now but its not visible and im starting tommorow

thx


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## StevieRob (Jan 5, 2015)

Judesvinet said:


> Are you seriously gonna use 4 diffrent compounds on your first cycle?


It's not my 1st cycle. It'll be my 1st cycle for 2 years and yes that's what I was thinking of using but if anybody has any advice then I'd be more than happy to hear it.


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## StevieRob (Jan 5, 2015)

Is it okay to take test boosters whilst on cycle or would it just be a waste?


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

StevieRob said:


> Is it okay to take test boosters whilst on cycle or would it just be a waste?


test booster is pointless on cycle. You are injecting testosterone in your body so what kind of boost would you need?

And by the way test boosters are a waste whatever you are on cycle or not.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

StevieRob said:


> Is it okay to take test boosters whilst on cycle or would it just be a waste?


Waste.


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## The Instigation (Jan 15, 2015)

I got a stupid question and didn't want to make a separate post about it, so I'll just ask here.

I will be doing my very first cycle ever starting on April 6th 2015, 500mg Test-E / Week for 12 weeks, and I was planning my PCT to be Tamoxifen 40/40/20/20 two weeks after my last pin. The test-e is pharma(already supplied). I've lifted for 4 years(5-6 days a week), I'm currently 30 years old. My questions are:

1. What can I do to lower the risk of gyno? (Arimidex/Aromasin are not available in my country), I've never had pubertal gyno. Should I take Tamoxifen during the cycle?

2. Is it true that I can't stay on Testosterone forever? As in do one 12-week cycle every summer without diminishing returns? I've heard some say that eventually I will have to add other compounds to my cycle or increase the dosage to even get the same results because the body gets used to the Test-E?

Sorry for the extremely stupid questions, I just think I will get best answers here. Thanks.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It will take a month for that gear to clear, so not 2 weeks, 4 weeks.


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## StevieRob (Jan 5, 2015)

Might seem a daft question but should you still take BCAAs on an all oral cycle?


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## xBeni (Feb 21, 2015)

I was thinking about take some orals but i never took something before... here it says Turinabol and Dianabol is the best for a first cycle, whats with anavar? i read alot about it that its that one with less side effects... Well now, if i take Turinabol 40mg for around 6 weeks, and PCT i take Tamoxifen 20mg (ED? i dont know what this mean) for 4 weeks after i finished the 6 week of Turinabol... + Chlomid 100mg 2 weeks/ and 50mg for the last 2 weeks... so thats 10 weeks until i finished everything (The Tamoxifen & the Chlomid i take at the same time?)... if i take all this, is the risk bigges to get sideffects? The last question is, when do i need to take them, what time of the day, before training or after main meal?

Thanks alot, and sorry for my stupid question... i hope someone could help me...


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## simplymichael (May 3, 2015)

dumb question i have a 1 ml syringe and you say take 1mg EOD of extemestane ..so how much if bottle is 25mg/ml would i need to get out of 1 ml syringe to get the dose 1mg ..sorry for dumb question i just honestly dont know


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

simplymichael said:


> dumb question i have a 1 ml syringe and you say take 1mg EOD of extemestane ..so how much if bottle is 25mg/ml would i need to get out of 1 ml syringe to get the dose 1mg ..sorry for dumb question i just honestly dont know


Syringe in way too big. You'll have to use slin pins for that.


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## simplymichael (May 3, 2015)

Galaxy said:


> Syringe in way too big. You'll have to use slin pins for that.


thanks place u recommend


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

simplymichael said:


> thanks place u recommend


Medisave or even amazon mate will have them.


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## simplymichael (May 3, 2015)

thanks so much one last question .. i got exemestane 25 mg/ml liquid and onset puffy left nipple and onset gyno from 500 mg test e weekly question is .. most places say tabs but how much do i take of liquid and orderLetrozole 60 ml (2.5 mg/ml) so with 1 ml syringe what is ur recommend doses in liquid ..thanks sorry for dumb question but thought i would put here where people can see difference in liquid vs tabs

never had gyno or huge left pec so this is what i was told but in tabs so not sure about it all thanks for not flaming honest question and will do what you say


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Simple of the letro every ml is 2.5mg so try taking 1ml for the first few days, then back off to half an ml to drop the letro dose in half, generally 2.5mg per day would be a bit much of letro, you can do that EOD if you like, but it still could drive down estrogen too low.


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## simplymichael (May 3, 2015)

hackskii said:


> Simple of the letro every ml is 2.5mg so try taking 1ml for the first few days, then back off to half an ml to drop the letro dose in half, generally 2.5mg per day would be a bit much of letro, you can do that EOD if you like, but it still could drive down estrogen too low.


honored u answered and for the exemestane 25 mg/ml liquid what do u recommend or what should i do .. sorry newbie to liquids ... i think i will have to find a tab site as i hate looking like idiot lol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

simplymichael said:


> honored u answered and for the exemestane 25 mg/ml liquid what do u recommend or what should i do .. sorry newbie to liquids ... i think i will have to find a tab site as i hate looking like idiot lol


Well, I used the liquid aromasin myself and found it to be kind of weak, so you can use a full ml again for the first 4 or 5 days or so, then cut that in half.

So, ml to start, then see how you feel, if you get stiff joints, no libido, feel kind of bad, cut it in half.

problem is it takes up to a few weeks to get blood plasma levels of the drugs effects up to speed, so one may over dose some then it hits you and your libido is gone, and you end up with stiff joints.

So the only way to see where we are for estrogen management is to start slow, but starting slow when symptoms are already there for high estrogen, you can only gauge by kind of shooting off the hip.


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## simplymichael (May 3, 2015)

hackskii said:


> Well, I used the liquid aromasin myself and found it to be kind of weak, so you can use a full ml again for the first 4 or 5 days or so, then cut that in half.
> 
> So, ml to start, then see how you feel, if you get stiff joints, no libido, feel kind of bad, cut it in half.
> 
> ...


thanks so much .. any other pointers u wanna give while i am dealing with this and i am still doing the 500 mg of test pinned mon and thurs ..again thanks so much and i hope this helps other people as they read ....

ps ..i have read a bunch of ur old posts which is why honored u answered ..


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Thanks, I am old:lol:

Just kind of hit it hard at first to get blood plasma levels up, then back off, otherwise you will probably deal with the gyno for a bit longer, and we don't want that setting up shop...lol

Once it is in your system, you can dose yourself via watching the sides, if the nipples act up, up the dose, if joints get stiff, or libido crashes, or you just feel bad, drop the dose in half.

Other than that bloods would be the only way to keep E right in range.

You want E in range even if T is out of range.


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## simplymichael (May 3, 2015)

hackskii said:


> Thanks, I am old:lol:
> 
> Just kind of hit it hard at first to get blood plasma levels up, then back off, otherwise you will probably deal with the gyno for a bit longer, and we don't want that setting up shop...lol
> 
> ...


thanks so much and i am old too . i am 40 this year sept 17 so trying TRT first cycle and or course i would have a bloated huge left pec on first run of test 500 mg a week .. but glad i joined this forum everyone has been so nice and not flaming but clearly i did my research as well and not just come in here being stupid . i am no way a bodybuilder i just got tired of being fat and low energy so decided if gonna do it will do this and gym hard .. but thanks for everyones help


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## steaky bacon (Aug 22, 2015)

planning my first cycle so would appreciate some input from someone seasoned in the field cheers.

Iim planning an 8 week cycle just to get a feel for it. im lookin to gain lean muscle and just a bit of wieght as I only 10.5 stone

weeks 1-5 am planning a shot of test E once a week

then week 6-8 pct of nolvadex daily

im open to altering the cycle tho

I would appreciate advice on finding a reliable and fast source for quality gear and as much other advice yas can offer please

im 25yrs ols

6ft in hieght

10.5 stone

gym four times weekly for nearly 2years for around 1.5hours a sesion split between both wieghts and cardio and can safely inject as I tried testE several times but have lost my contact and was nieve to the science and commitment needed for steriods

cheers hope to hear from yas soon


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## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

steaky bacon said:


> planning my first cycle so would appreciate some input from someone seasoned in the field cheers.
> 
> Iim planning an 8 week cycle just to get a feel for it. im lookin to gain lean muscle and just a bit of wieght as I only 10.5 stone
> 
> ...


10st-6ft?

U need food not roids


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