# theres more out there then bjj,wrestling and thai boxing



## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

san shou






kudo






Myanmar Lethwei






shootboxing






catch wrestling






*****






no-gi judo






luta livre

http://http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-klNDE_NJ7Y


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

Nice Sanshou vid that, good demo of kick catching all the way through. A combination of good catching and low kicks is kind of a trademark, the more modern Sanshou is known wider as Sanda and it ends pretty much as you see it in that vid, soemone goes down and it's all over however traditionally there are a load of chokes and submissions (or na in chinese) that are applied once someone is on the ground. A lot of Dog style kung fu influences Sanshou as it's a ground fighting system of kung fu, believe it or not developed by nuns who wanted a system they could use on men who wrestled them to the ground to err "have their way", dog style has a lot of groin and eye attacks as well as dislocations and chokes as a result.


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## badmiral (Jan 21, 2009)

some pretty brutal stuff there - didn't know what sanshou, kudo or luta livre was before that post, so cheers

how gutsy is mr blue shorts in that myanmar lethwei bout??? - wow!


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

I thought dog style kung fu evolved because women couldnt really do stand up because of having there feet wrapped from an early age.

i remember doing chinese boxing as a teenager which is similar to sanshou and there was alot of focus on catching kicks so much so when i started thai boxing i would catch almost every kick in sparring.


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## temeura (Oct 29, 2008)

I really liked the Sanshou. I didn't know too much about it, wasn't expecting the slams.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

i would like to learn san shou but i cant find a class in london along with more or less all the ma there.


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

There aren't many places who offer it to be honest, I was quite lucky that round here there's a bit of a community, White Crane offer it as modern San Da there's a small wing chun school that have been doing it on an invite only basis to people who did their Chin Na classes in Brighton and I hear that ZT have just got themselves a Sanshou instructor in, there are a few other people in the area that offer it, I think it all came from a White Crane instructor who used to run a school in Brighton and Croydon a while ago. There was London Wing Chun but they've changed it to a very light version of San Da apparently. If you are interested I'll ask the guys I did it with if they know of anyone in London.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

that would be great if you would :yes: im doing thai boxing and boxing but i would like to do san shou to bring something different to the tablew when i finally compete.


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

No worries mate, I'll ask about. for you.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

bujutsu


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

some great examples their...that luta livre class looked fun, with some serious students....don't forget Grasshoppers it not so much the system, but the heart of the fighter that makes the difference (An that's my meaningful and profound quote over for the day).


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## JayC (Jul 16, 2007)

Someone who just learns one of these is still, in my opinion, not gonna be as effective if they did a mix of BJJ, Wrestling and Muay Thai


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

I agree - if entering the cage you need at least stand up and ground fighting (imo wrestling optional if your ground game ia A1, or if you have no ground game and need to fight life or death to stay on your feet!) lets not forget tho' when Vale Tudo was at its most extreme luta livre was the main rival to BJJ - just the Gracies from what I know could not be beat otherwise everyone may have been raving about that instead, and of course as evolution continues I'm sure 10th Planet will be the new hot thing in alot of circles (as well as stuff we are not aware of yet)- If anyone watches Rio Heroes i.e proper Vale Tudo, Lutra Livre and BJJ with Muay Thai still appear to be the main arts practiced - just my opnion tho.:happy: 

Oh, who know's Escrima may be allowed in the cage he, he. Sticks at the ready.......shit he has nun chak's (sp).


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

JayC said:


> Someone who just learns one of these is still, in my opinion, not gonna be as effective if they did a mix of BJJ, Wrestling and Muay Thai


that is the fomular (but with boxing aswell) that has seemed to have worked but i have noticed a trend to move away or more accurately to add stuff from other systems in, for example fedor dosnt really use traditional western boxing/thai boxing punches rather he uses russian fisty cuff looping blows and he dosnt use traditional wrestling take downs but *****/judo trips theres also guys like lyoto machida who uses alot of karate counters ect in his style so just gsp with lunge punch and back kicks, even if you read anderson silvas book you will see karate switch step strikes ans trapping techniques ect.


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## JayC (Jul 16, 2007)

Fedor used looping blows yes, and it ALMOST cost him before he landed a lucky punch on Arlovski.

They all, however, have trained Muay Thai, Wrestling and BJJ and merged their styles.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

JayC said:


> Fedor used looping blows yes, and it ALMOST cost him before he landed a lucky punch on Arlovski.
> 
> They all, however, have trained Muay Thai, Wrestling and BJJ and merged their styles.


almost but he's still undefeated theres no defence for blockinig looping punches in boxing or muay thai as thai punches are really just boxing punches and you can only hit with the front of the glove in boxing thats why theres no looping punches, russian fisty cuffs is more or less exactly the same as old bare knuckle boxing.

you need to lean the big 4 if your going to compete in the cage just because everyone knows them , my point is theres other stuff out there aswell that do things a little differently. personaly apart from the sprawl all of fedors takedowns are *****/judo he does use alot of thai kicks but apart from that he's prett much pure *****.

the reason imo that the big 4 have been so successful in mma is because mma is a ring sport and there all ring sports so the focus is perfect, you strip away all the techniques that would be illegal in mma from say goshin ryu ju jitsu and you would have a very rough form of mma but a goshin guys never going to beat someone who cross trains in the big 4 in the cage because the goshin guys is training all the other shit thats not relavent to mma but beacue everyone is training the same its the people who are adding things that are not from the big 4 that are having success a few other examples are aoki is doing standing arm lock and round couture uses lim distruction from the fillipino martial arts to get into clinching range.

kudo and ***** have had there own mma comps decades before mma blew up with the ufc shootboxing is just the standing version shootfighting which has been doing mma for decades, catch wrestling and judo have been doing mma comps for almost a hundred years, remember bjj is judo new waza and luta livre is vale tudo throws and grappling.

im not trying to put down thai boxing wrestling bjj and boxing but mma has evolved to an extent now that you cant just follow a formula and expect to win.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

Fedor uses old skool boxing techniques - imo if you go back far enough you will find in the early bare knuckles days looping punches (their is a technical name that escapes me right now) and corkscrewing your punch i.e turning your fist over is nothing new - infact I bet Fedor uses them as bare knuckle boxing and old sckool training are what he does rather than evolving in that way I bet he has been influences by being in hard up russian and what he has saw come before him - granted their are moves I learned 25 years ago that would be classed as illegal (and plenty of other moves even in the big 4 as well as other styles) and as you can't have people risking loosing eyes and nasty joint snaps and death they have to be illegal - that's why street fighting can be just as dangerous for a guy who is used to BJJ tapping and pulling punched ects in a Thai or boxing class - as some crazy git may go straight for your throat and then your screwed unless you think fast and carry off an "illegal" move which some people will not even think of as used to playing fair and knowing only certain strikes (an never performed an eye gouge not even occuring to use this) although at the same time early UFC does prove in most situations you will be lucky to pull off something out of the ordinary. And.......I'm done.:nerd:


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## davy (Apr 21, 2008)

Cool post & some good points made! The Luta Livre & Sanshou clips are wicked, already forwarded them on! Most of the styles shown can be familiarised or have comparison with other martial arts; it's just that BJJ, MT, wrestling & boxing are the most noticably applied styles to modern MMA that we see in the big events. IMO the point made earlier is true; you need to be versed in a form of striking, a ground / submission style, takedowns & takedown defence to have success in MMA.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

yeah, unless your names Brock!!!!:laugh::laugh:

I like to sit on em and smash them in the head.......(for some reason in my mind this came out in an Austrian (see Arnie accent), help me.


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## LICKSHOT (Feb 10, 2009)

those video's are the nuts, shanshou looks brutal! and watching that shootboxing brought back memories of me n my kid brother watching it on eurosport when we were kids.:happy:, that flying armbar was wicked in the luta livre vid, love that move!


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

yeah, gotta agree and if they move out of the armbar on the way in you can always kick em in the head!!!!:yes:


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