# Are Deadlifts enough to develop hamstrings ?



## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I am currently following the push - pull - leg system for bulking. The basic idea is to do only 3 exersizes per session, all comnound movements. The workouts are as following.

Push - DB flat bench, DB seated mill press & Dips.

Pull - Lat pulldown, Bent over DB row & Deadlifts.

Legs - Squats, Stiffleg Deadlifts & Leg press.

As you can see I am doing deadlifts twice a week. My question is should I carry on as above or should I swap the stiffleg deadlifts for another exersize. Would the deadlifts from the pull day be enough to develop my hamstrings allowing me to add calf raises or lunges into my routine. Also the stiffleg deadlifts hammer my lower back.

I only do 3 exersizes as I want to keep my workouts to less than one hour. I have just started doing 4 sets per exersize increasing the weight each set. Reps are in the 12 to 6 range, typicaly 12,10,8,6.

Based on the above what do you guys think


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## JMazza (Nov 1, 2010)

With you only doing 3 exercises per workout you'd want all the exercises to be compounds and calf raises are an isolation movement so stick with the straight leg deads I say. I'd swap out lat pull downs for wide grip pullups as well.


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## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

IMO no. You want good mornings or romanian deads for hammies.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

For functional hamstring strength you can do ok with just deadlifting variations that hit the hams well like SLDL's, romanian dead's and sumo dead's, but for 'bodybuilding' the hams I'd also at various times also do leg curls, glute-ham raises (which is probably the best all round hamstring exercise there is), lunges with a straight trailing leg, and possibly good mornings.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks guys, as I expected. I think from what I have read and seen on the net I have been going to low on SLDL which is why I get a back pump. I will stick with the routine as is. I reply to JMazza I do the pulldowns as currently my lats are a real problem area and I struggle with chins. Once my lat strength developes I will move onto chins for sure.

Also to keep thing interesting and keep my body guessing every 3 weeks I have a shock week where I still train the same muscle groups but use different exersizes, rep ranges and techniques. This would be the ideal time to include some of the ideas above, Iv never done glute-ham raises or romanian deads so I will give them a go.

Thank for you replies guys I really appreciate it. This is why I joined this forum, as there isn't anyone in my gym to ask there type of questions. 80% of the people in my gym dont even train legs, they are the typical flat bench and precher curl types who think the squat rack is for resting the bar on between sets of curls. Thanks again for your time.


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

defo my hamms are thickening all the time and all I do is ATG squats and deads.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I think romanian deadlifts are the way forward. My gym doesn't have a glute-ham machine so I think they are out unless someone has a method of doing them on std gym equipment. Leg day tomorrow so I will give the RDLs a try.


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## shane278 (Aug 25, 2008)

Not enough on their own, it's worth doing some isolation work on them, this may in turn increase your deadlift.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

aad123 said:


> I think romanian deadlifts are the way forward. My gym doesn't have a glute-ham machine so I think they are out unless someone has a method of doing them on std gym equipment. Leg day tomorrow so I will give the RDLs a try.


Top exercise romanian dead's, really rate them. A really good form guide for them and how they compare to SLDL's here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/rdl-vs-sldl.html


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

if you work to pulling 300kg nothing in your person is going to be small or lack thickness.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

i usually switch between push pull legs and full body 5x5 routines.

when i do the full body i do no other leg work than squats 3xper week and dead 1.5 times per week and everytime i go back to a push pull legs my S.L. dead has increased  so i would say that for me... yep, deep squats and deads work my hams well - tho i also mountain bike alot and that will have a crossover into good ham development imo


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## AlbertSteptoe (Dec 26, 2010)

no you should train them directly


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> But I shudder when I see come lads pulling, its all back and they fully extend their legs even before the bar is past their knees...something like this:


WTF is that! Bet his back feels great.


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## shane278 (Aug 25, 2008)

That video should be renamed how not to deadlift.

Should be in prison for that offense.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I trained legs tonight and included RDL to great effect. Started with 4 sets of squats going below parallel. I increased weight on every set, reps were 12, 10,9,5, all reps were deep and controlled.

Next exersize RDL and as I have never done them before I started with just the bar as a warm up and increased by 10kg per set. I did 4 sets and felt every last rep on my hanstrings. Kept my back straight and bent from the hips lowering the bar as far as possible whilst keeping my back straight. I realy enjoyed doing the RDL and found them far more effective than SLDL.

Final exersize of the night was leg press again 4 sets, reps 15, 12, 8, 5. following that I couldnt even walk down the stairs to the car park, been home over an hour now and my legs are still hurting, nearly fell over in the shower. Not looking forward to getting out of bed tomorrow.

I have seen plenty of people in my gym doing deadlifts the same way as the guy in the video. I can assure you that that is nothing like how I do any of my exersizes. I have never sacrifised form for weight, when I started training the gym owner told me "train your muscles not your ego" and its stook ever since.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

SteamRod said:


> if you work to pulling 300kg nothing in your person is going to be small or lack thickness.


If I added all my lifts together is would only just reach 300kg. Ill leave that to you big boys.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

Dtlv74 said:


> Top exercise romanian dead's, really rate them. A really good form guide for them and how they compare to SLDL's here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/rdl-vs-sldl.html


The link really helped, thanks.


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## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

They are awesome, next best thing after weighted GHR on the bench. Now they really give you some thick ass hams fast.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

digitalis said:


> They are awesome, next best thing after weighted GHR on the bench. Now they really give you some thick ass hams fast.


GHR ???

I will google it.

I think RDL are here to stay, why didn't I know about these years ago.


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## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

Glute ham raise bud. Few gyms have the bench, they work the hamstrings over the hip and knee joint which no other exercise does. Will put kilos on your squat and deadlift and I mean kilos.

You can do a version on a lat pulldown machine which is not as good as I've tried both but would be good as a change now and again.

Good mornings are great too bud, just be sure to push your hips back to initate the eccentric and not bend at the waist.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

The day after my leg workout and as expected I can hardly walk. My hamstrings are a little tender but my lower back is fine, my quads feel like hell. I think the additional sets have done the trick. I was doing only 2 sets but have upped the sets to 4 and it seems to have worked.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I have another question that you guys may be able to help with related to shoulder training. As I am doing push,pull,leg and only doing one dedicated exercise for shoulders is seated db press my best option ? I was thinking of swaping to clean and press or push press. The clean and press would work my shoulders, traps, tris, legs and core. Surely a better option. The push press would work my core and would also allow me to get out a few more reps. If you guys had to do only one exercise what would it be and why.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> Romanians are a really good movement. Part of my accessory work on deadlift day. I also like good mornings, and can really feel the hamstring being worked, along with the lower back/glutes. As Steamrod says, squatting deep will also do wonders for your hamstrings, and really every muscle from the chest down. The deadlift of course, if you're keeping straight, chest out, head up, driving with your heels, will also of course work the hammys. But I shudder when I see come lads pulling, its all back and they fully extend their legs even before the bar is past their knees...something like this:


How do you do your good mornings, seated or standing? Also, what kind of foot spacing do you use... I haven't done GM's much and am interested in the technique prefered by people who do use them regularly.

The deadlifting form in that vid, seriously woeful... a perfect guide how not to coordinate drive from the legs and the pull from the back, and also how to totally set up wrong.

I can't believe he had two spotters two who just let him lift like that.


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## gymfit (Oct 12, 2008)

Dtlv74 said:


> How do you do your good mornings, seated or standing? Also, what kind of foot spacing do you use... I haven't done GM's much and am interested in the technique prefered by people who do use them regularly.
> 
> The deadlifting form in that vid, seriously woeful... a perfect guide how not to coordinate drive from the legs and the pull from the back, and also how to totally set up wrong.
> 
> I can't believe he had two spotters two who just let him lift like that.


^^ X2! thats pretty shocking... how he didnt do himself serious injury the way he yanked it up with a rounded back is a miracle!


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

gymfit said:


> ^^ X2! thats pretty shocking... how he didnt do himself serious injury the way he yanked it up with a rounded back is a miracle!


Is it wrong that i laughed at that video?.that is the worse form i have ever seen!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I swear my lower back actually spasmed in pain a little bit just watching that video... if my training partner tried to lift like that I'd punch him.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

For a short time our gym had a 1 rep max challenge board and that type of deadlift was a common sight, along with bench bounces where the lifter uses the rib cage to propel the weight back up and 6" squats where the bar moved a max of 6" from the start position. The board only lasted about 6 weeks as nearly everyone who took part in the challenge had managed to screw up either their back, knees or shoulders or all of the above.

If I have learned anything over the past year or so its that the weights used are not important as long as the muscle is stimulated. Iv seen young lads lifting faw more than me and their bodies do not come close to mine. This isn't ment to sound big headed but I think you can get my point. One lad asked me how to develop his traps and when I advised he reduced the weight and increased the reps using a weight he could handle he didn't seem too impressed. Sure enough next time I saw him working his traps he had the smith mc loaded to the max doing exactly as he was before. I wish I knew then I was his age what I know now. I wouldn't have wasted so many years training incorrectly.


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## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

Dtlv74 said:


> How do you do your good mornings, seated or standing? Also, what kind of foot spacing do you use... I haven't done GM's much and am interested in the technique prefered by people who do use them regularly.


Up until very recently I did them as a staple of my WS routine. I did standing with varying legspace. Close stance is meant to place more emphasis on the lower back, wider on the hips and medium somewhere in between and hammies. Back arch is variable too! An over pronounced arch I used to find hit the hams more than the hips. They are a real glute builder though lol.

I never did the whole plethora of WS variations like chains, bands etc. though I did do the combined squat/GM which is a killer. You do a GM eccentric, then squat the barbell up and down lol, google it.

The knack with them is the way you start the eccentric. You have to push your hips back not unlike a squat until you feel the hammies tightening.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I'v never tried good mornings but from what you guys are saying they may be worth a try. I will google them and see if I can find a vid showing how to do them correctly, hopefully not a video made by the deadlifting guy. I will add them into my leg day as my last exercise. This will give me two quad exercises and 2 hip exercises. I may have to lower the number of sets on my other 3 exercises to 3 so I have both time and energy to do the good mornings. Do you think 3 sets would be enough ? or should I stick with 4 and forget the good mornings ?


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