# Stock Market



## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Anyone invest in stocks and shares? Thinking about having a gamble looking for others stories first though!!


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

I lost £2000 when I was young and foolish, now that I have a lot of wisdom lol I don't even think about it


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## kgb (Sep 13, 2009)

Long term investments you will more than likely make more money than a 'normal' savings account.

You can make alot of money over a few months, but the risks are high.

Never invest more than you are willing to lose.

Day trading is viable, but a full time occupation, and NOT to be undertaken lightly.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

RBS are down to 41p again, i recently made some money out of them and pulled it out at 50p at that precise time they went back down.. they will come back up now.. remember they were £7 before the bank collapsed and have not recovered, and it will. If it stays at low 40's in gonna back +£100 per pt to go up on a spread bet and gain some monies, if you put a 5/10 point guaranteed stop you can't really loose.. not with a 10pt stop anyway on a long term trade


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] in answer to your comment:

Right there are two options to buy shares outright which means buy a load and pay 41p each, for every penny they grow they you will gain a penny on each... that may not be the best option though, buying them outright is defo the safest way but not the most profitable. Companies like IG Index offer a stocks and shares service called "spreadbetting" and what this means is you back it in which way you want it to go and make some cash but its riskier, i'll give an example:

If you want the shares to go up and expect they will, you could back RBS with +£100 per point (per penny) to go up, this means that even if they only climbed up to 51p you have made £1000 pounds! Much more than if you were to buy 1k of the shares outright. Now heres the negative but it can be controlled.. If the shares went the other way, eg dropped then you would loose £100 per point (penny) it went down. The good news is that you can close it whenever you want, so if you lost a few £100 and wanted out you can close the account whenever.

So yes quite risky mate, but i'll explain how to do this with very low risk. RBS are at 41p now, even when the sh!t hit the fan 3 years ago and there was a total collapse they were not that much lower than this, if they went down to something like 35p now the country would be fcuked, so tbh it just couldn't happen (it could but its worth the gamble by far).. now to make it safe you do whats called a 'guaranteed stop' and you make sure the stop is larger than the shares can realistically fall. Now if you backed RBS +£100 pt to go up you can make some serious dosh, with a 10 point guaranteed stop you'd only loose the grand if RBS fell below 31p which tbh i really can't see happening at all, but if over the next 6 months they get to say (may happen but may take longer) 71p then you have made 1000's my advice is to get RBS on a long term spread bet, +£100 per point to go up, with a 10 point guaranteed stop, this is low risk.

You could be daring and do +£200 per point with only a 5 pt guaranteed stop, you'd make twice the profit but its more risky as you'd loose your grand if they fell below 36p.. do you understand how it works? Hope this helps bud..


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

I'll PM this to you as well bud in case you miss it, any more questions give me a shout...

Rasputin on here is knows a lot about the stockmarket too


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## thermique (Sep 15, 2010)

Take this from someone who works in the finance sector, if you are investing in the stock market for the first time dont jump in with spreadbetting.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

thermique said:


> Take this from someone who works in the finance sector, if you are investing in the stock market for the first time dont jump in with spreadbetting.


True you need to read read read, i got cocky once after a few wins when i was uneducated on the markets. I lost £1000 in 16 minutes while i was on lunch break at work, i was devastated as i really can't afford to loose any way near that money, but that was day trading on spreadbetting and it won't happen again i hope... on long term holds your at much lower risk, especially when you do your research and structure it to your favour


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

lol, I tried it (still do a little)....I read up about all the elliot wave theory, Fibonacci numbers, golden means blah bla......stochastics, blah....bought a load of software to identify undersold stock ready to rise

It's gambling....so long as you accept that, have fun and don't invest what you can't afford to lose


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## thermique (Sep 15, 2010)

Uriel said:


> lol, I tried it (still do a little)....I read up about all the elliot wave theory, Fibonacci numbers, golden means blah bla......stochastics, blah....bought a load of software to identify undersold stock ready to rise
> 
> It's gambling....so long as you accept that, have fun and don't invest what you can't afford to lose


Trading stocks, options and some deriatives = not gambling

CFD's and certain derivatives = grey area

Spread betting = gambling

Investing in the stock market is purchasing an asset, thats not gambling.

All imo of course.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

thermique said:


> Investing in the stock market is purchasing an asset, thats not gambling.


Over what period??

I was day trading and short term trading and it is IMO gambling bro......

I guess you mean buying gold etc and hanging onto it for years and years? May as well buy a bond


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I was also going short as well as long which is hoping a stock drops....you couldn't do that in the UK when I was doing it (still can't I think?) - I used to trade in the US although I was in the UK

I was trading on margin too which can get ugly lol


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

thermique said:


> Trading stocks, options and some deriatives = not gambling
> 
> CFD's and certain derivatives = grey area
> 
> ...


Spreadbetting isn't gambling when its an informed decision, if done correctly you'll have the ability to make a lot more than buying the shares outright... If you choose the right piece of stock and know when to jump in and out then you can do alright, on a long term hold eg 6 months + its nearly as safe as buying the stock outright, but only if you know how to take the right precautions and give yourself a wide enough stop incase things go wrong. At the end of the day it can go wrong on a spreadbet or buying them outright, but you were right in saying that a novice to the trading world would be better in not starting trading this way


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

look into trading futures options if you like big gamble and returns (loses)


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## Howe (Mar 17, 2008)

Been debating giving this ago for a while, recommend anywhere good online to read up on?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Howe said:


> Been debating giving this ago for a while, recommend anywhere good online to read up on?


There are dozens of places to read, news sites like the FT are good: http://www.ft.com/uk/markets


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

lee_ said:


> Interesting topic.
> 
> I was a stockbroker for 3 years and was very successful but hated the work. I invested many millions of client money and did well using a hedged system that ensured even if a share took a nose dive the other compoments in the portfolio would effectively act as insurance to either minimise the damage or negate it. The overall world market has gone down (for the most part) and so have the portfolio's but the portfolio's were moved to be ready for the bounce.
> 
> ...


help us all make millions :lol:


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

open a stock brocker trading office lol


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

I think that UKM should have more about business / making money, maybe even a sticky.. i know Lorian is in to progressing etc.. maybe we should have some kind of a sticky that involves peoples views on different stocks and your views on the best way to trade etc, would be good to see peoples opinions and see who wins and who doesn't etc.. on MT there is a stockmarket thread and its good to see who wins / who loses, when and why...

And lee_ whats your views on the declined markets at the min, are you ready to back stuff on the way back up? when do you think we'll be back on the up? As in the markers in general, and what do you think are the best options then, if you don't think spreading is?

Edit, your last post answers some of this


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## round 2 (Jan 14, 2010)

my brother does spread betting on currencies but you need 100 x what you are going to bet per percentage point so i think he has to put "200,000 up for offer as he bets £200 per percentage point.And it has to move 0.2 points before you start to make profit.

He doesnt bet often but has made £30,000 in the last year.not alot really but he is a bit cautious and it is just a side line apart from his day job.

you can get a virtual account and try and see but dont get access to all the up to date trading feeds.This is what i done and went from 100,000 to 60,000 so decided it wasnt for me


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## Wes2009 (Apr 5, 2010)

I tried the markets once when marconi was going under, in 2003. I lost £4500 that day i then had a go at spread betting lost a few hundred there. I now let my bank in Geneva manage my bucks, i seem to hold onto it longer hahaha

But when i float my company in 3 years time ill keep all you hungry share buyers informed  )


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Wes2009 said:


> I tried the markets once when marconi was going under, in 2003. I lost £4500 that day i then had a go at spread betting lost a few hundred there. I now let my bank in Geneva manage my bucks, i seem to hold onto it longer hahaha
> 
> But when i float my company in 3 years time ill keep all you hungry share buyers informed  )


Whats the score with the bank in geneva bud do they give a good interest rate etc? What benefits do they provide?


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## Wes2009 (Apr 5, 2010)

Bank in geneva is AMAZING.... they just work my bucks for me HARD, they call me to tell me when things are hot its how banking should be! they value you because there are only a handful of branches, and they recognise without your money hey have nothing! I have a host of things with them, bonds are very good but tied in for 12months. they can do anything you can think of and its tax free and its private!!!!!!!! there are different rates and interest depending on your level of funds etc. But they will manage your stock portfolio, invest into commodities or private ventures along side other investors its amazing.

My company has a big turn and big profit, but i want to expand it all over UK, 14 days they arrange the bucks no questions asked my barclays account is only used as a back up here!

intrest on funds is currently about 3-6% upwards depending on what type of investment.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lee_ my aim is to hold off until i we we have truly hit rock bottom and then back all the popular markets like FTSE100 and also other niche goodens to go up, i don't want to put proper money in to it until there is excitement in the air about is coming out of the recession properly, but also don't want to miss out on any big spikes if the news breaks and the markets get excited... im very careful now, in effect i am looking to do long term and use the money in a way that will give a greater profit than just sitting in a bank

wes any info you have about the bank, a website link would be appreciated by PM if you don't mind.. and your right, banks outside the UK are better

And defo work hard for you, even though the uk banks are organised they are a joke imo/e


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## Wes2009 (Apr 5, 2010)

my company is registered in the seychelles and is allowed to trade world wide! Seychelles is a tax free country therefore i am not breaking the law or do i have to pay tax upon my earnings!


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## Wes2009 (Apr 5, 2010)

lee_ said:


> So have you invested in the company or in your own money? Because if its in your own money it falls under uk earnings.
> 
> Anyway sounds like you're on the ball, good luck with it all!


there was a typo in there, the money i have made in the UK is not TAX liable the money in my company offshore is also not TAX liable. I don't hold funds of above 5k in the UK FULL STOP!!


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

ive made quite a bit from it


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Can anyone recommend any good books on the subject (bearing in mind I'm a total beginner!)


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

I'm not allowed to as I work for one of the largest hedge funds in the world, I have to seek pre clearance on anything I want to own and cant use betting websites etc.....kind of a pain but I do have options in the company so I gain when they gain...Love to have a go when I leave here tho!


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

lee_ said:


> Want to share what you've done and how? I think the more people share in here the more helpful it will be.


just browse the internet and the library really. do your homework and dont go into it totally blind eyed.

but you need to remember that its impossible to go into trading whilst knowing everything - if that was the case then it wouldnt be classified as gambling and any tom dick and harry would be making money left right and centre!

its a combination of patience, persistence, keeping a level head, knowing the economy, thinking outside the box and not getting carried away

there is no feeling like when you make £3-£5 grand in a half hour trade on a monday morning. But you can lose just as much (if not more) in an even shorter space of time.

my recommendation is to do some reading and dont waste all of your savings on trading.

another thing is that you MUST do your own research (DYOR) when it comes to trading.

do NOT listen to what the forums say. people who invest will constantly be writing on the forums stuff like "this share price is gonna jump...its inevitable" etc etc. these people tend to know sweet FA and write stuff like that to make themselves feel better about their dodgy investment

people who tend to know something are usually the ones that keep quiet.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Magic Torch said:


> I'm not allowed to as I work for one of the largest hedge funds in the world, I have to seek pre clearance on anything I want to own and cant use betting websites etc.....kind of a pain but I do have options in the company so I gain when they gain...Love to have a go when I leave here tho!


Set up under a friends name if you have inside knowledge, or even better give me the info


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Im so tempted by the RBS.. 1.25p down today! Down to 40.5p im tempted to jump in.. they are gonna go up soon, i can feel it in my bones


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

I'd certainly be interested in doing this, as I work in finance. Unfortunately don't have the spare cash to give it a go yet.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

LOL not worth risking my bonus over mate


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I work at one of the largest Investment Banks looking after their IT stuff, for Derivatives dept. I don't even know what a fkin Derivative is!! Seriously.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Yes, but I only look after the databases mate so am expert-level on the db software but have no idea about the business. Bit worrying if the brokers don't know about the business-side of things imo.


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## Rasputin (Oct 16, 2010)

Hey guys just thought I would throw my ring in the hat here. I used to work as a stockbroker now Im a recruiter for hedge funds and asset managers il try and add some input as I still get lots of broker notes and talk to traders alot.

Ras


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

hmm i have joined interactive investor in view of a bit of speculating and figured out you need half a brain to do it- thus ended my venture into the sock market


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

lee_ said:


> There's an awful lot of brokers out there doing stuff they don't really understand. We used to find it quite funny really, I mean complex debt and other such products were traded without a understanding of their risk profile. It's often the wild west in the markets and I've got to say it's quite fun to watch. I especially used to find it funny when someone traded the wrong number of stock or for the wrong price because they pressed a key too many times....
> 
> So are you an Oracle/DB2 guru?


I only do Oracle mate. Sybase is legacy and we don't see much DB2. Lots of SQLServer though.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok so after researching im happy to jump in on the RBS they are currently at 39.950p which is pretty damn low for them,

obviously they are closed for trading at this hour so can't guarantee to buy at that price and the closest i can get is 40.050p

So 0.1p difference i have backed them at +£100 a point and chucked in £1000 the firm i have used (ETX) won't allow for you

to use your full value incase of slippage so they wouldn't give me a 10pt stop, i was allowed 8 though which im happy with.

So RBS @ 40p every penny they go up i earn £100 (i have done a long term rolling trade and believe they will do well)

Every penny they go down i loose £100 if they get down to 32p i am locked out and its game over.

Personally i can't see them going down to 32p the country would be fcuked if it did so im happy to invest a grand on it.

I'll update any drastic good or bad movements in this thread, and think it would be good if other traders did the same :thumbup1:


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## little_jm (Feb 8, 2010)

Great thread! Some interesting reading

A bit off topic but im looking at internships at investment banks at the moment, anyone have any good tips etc?


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Decided to double up then raptor? Good luck bro


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

milner575 said:


> Decided to double up then raptor? Good luck bro


I was talking with Rasputin who's a member on here and he is involved in the market and was saying if he hadn't just put

money down for a property he'd be jumping in head 1st at the RBS right now, which confirmed to me that im right in thinking

they are a good pun... tbh they may go down a little before they go back up but i have a stop down to 32p so unless something

crazy happened then they won't go down to 32p from 40 (which is low anyway) i hope!

Here's to seeing £100 extra in my bank for every penny i hope they climb :thumbup1:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lee_ said:


> I'm sure they will go up but I really think you'd of done better actually buying the shares since it doesn't matter if they go down if you own them and you still see the upside whatever.
> 
> I used to really like RBS and Sir Fred, just a shame it ended the way it did.
> 
> ...


Yeah i know what you mean by saying i that i'd only see the upside if i bought the shares outright but its just not logical, i don't see why you disagreed with me earlier in the thread... basically for me to earn £100 per penny increase which i will do, i'd of needed to buy £40,000 worth of shares lol. Needless to say i don't have £40 thousand laying about, so this way in effect has bought me 40k worth of shares with only £1000 only if it drops to 32p will i loose the cash which imo is a safe(ish) pun.. if the RBS fell to 32p something very serious would have had to happen

p.s i think in the next 12 months they will be 70p - £1


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

The Raptor said:


> RBS are down to 41p again, i recently made some money out of them and pulled it out at 50p at that precise time they went back down.. they will come back up now.. remember they were £7 before the bank collapsed and have not recovered, and it will. If it stays at low 40's in gonna back +£100 per pt to go up on a spread bet and gain some monies, if you put a 5/10 point guaranteed stop you can't really loose.. not with a 10pt stop anyway on a long term trade


yeah i put afew hundred quid into RBS when they dropped to 36p, then afew months later i sold them around 54p, made a nice little profit. Quite tempted to invest in them again as they've dropped down to around 40p again.

also bought shares in BP when they sank to around £3.40, only way is up for them 

bought shares in mining companies too, they've gone up between 60-150%


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## Rasputin (Oct 16, 2010)

lee_ said:


> I disagreed because there's a fine line between wise investing and gambling. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with gambling I'd just not recommend it to anyone who is looking for a good long term return.
> 
> If you're in for the long haul with investments you buy shares and not bet against shares. The very good reason for this is because having a 32p cap means you can lose the whole amount of money and as we have seen the market is extremely volitle right now so it's a significant risk. When RBS were floating around the £7 mark it was inconcievable for them to be around 40p but thats where we are today.
> 
> ...


Whilst I agree outright ownership of the share is ideal i tried to persuade Raptor to buy t 10 but he didnt have the funds essentially if you can stand the margin there really is no point buying out right though imo. CFD's are the way forward for the limited fund investor t1,3,10 etc for when you have shedloads of cash.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> yeah i put afew hundred quid into RBS when they dropped to 36p, then afew months later i sold them around 54p, made a nice little profit. Quite tempted to invest in them again as they've dropped down to around 40p again.
> 
> also bought shares in BP when they sank to around £3.40, only way is up for them
> 
> bought shares in mining companies too, they've gone up between 60-150%


Get yourself back on the RBS mate, i did a long term early hours today as below and im up already :thumbup1:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lee_ said:


> I disagreed because there's a fine line between wise investing and gambling. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with gambling I'd just not recommend it to anyone who is looking for a good long term return.
> 
> If you're in for the long haul with investments you buy shares and not bet against shares. The very good reason for this is because having a 32p cap means you can lose the whole amount of money and as we have seen the market is extremely volitle right now so it's a significant risk. When RBS were floating around the £7 mark it was inconcievable for them to be around 40p but thats where we are today.
> 
> ...


Yeah i suppose you are right that having a margin where you can be locked out 'in effect' is gambling but as said i feel my optimism with the benefits outweigh the negatives, sure it could fall down to 32p but imo it is unlikely, i'd say there is more chance of going back to 50p in the next 8 weeks... they were nearly 50p a few months back and i cashed in a bit when they went from 44-49. For me this is a good way of doing it, as said for me to make £100 per penny rise i'd need 40k which i don't have and if god forbid the shares collapsed down to 20p or whatever i'd of lost 20k and not 1k so imo as a business decision, the route i have chosen is more effective and maybe even safer... if you bough them outright and they collapsed you never know if or when they are coming back up


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lee_ said:


> I'm not sure you're seeing the picture here.
> 
> If a share dips in price it doesn't mean anything since you don't have to sell at any set point. You just stay invested, enjoy the dividend and wait it out.
> 
> ...


Yes but most people can't put 40k in the shares and just 'wait it out'

The way i structure things may not be as safe, but if you want to make it really really safe then you could just do a 40 point stop!

That would mean you would have £100 per point, also you couldn't loose as you have done a 40 point safety net... and it would cost 4k.

So in effect you have just bought 40k shares for 4k and your in exactly the same position either way, how can this not be better?

Sure i have not done a 4k risk as i can't afford to risk it but im happy even with 32p and if you look at the RBS figures im up already


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Yeah fair enough bud, im not saying that your categorically wrong but i believe this way is maximising the money...

Although yes there are some risks, anyway i'll let everyone know how it all goes, i'd be interested in anyone elses puns too :thumbup1:


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

I am thinking about backing RBS also. I don't need fast cash so may just buy outright and cash in later if they pick back up! May look to buy around 2ks worth and hope to double my money in long run!


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Anyone recommend a good online service to use to buy and sell shares?


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

I haven't used any ISA allowance so that would be great if I could use my allowance towards tax free shares


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

For anyone who's following this thread, the RBS spread i took on that activated at 9:00am on 23/11/10 started at 40.080

They are now over 41.088 and had 100 squid a point so +£100 i'd like to see +£150 by the end of today.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

The Raptor said:


> For anyone who's following this thread, the RBS spread i took on that activated at 9:00am on 23/11/10 started at 40.080
> 
> They are now over 41.088 and had 100 squid a point so +£100 i'd like to see +£150 by the end of today.


Ok so here's the deal, was in front of my computer this morning feeling optimistic about it all when they got to 41p+ kinda wishing i got more

as i feel they are gonna do well, anyway they fell temporarily which happens, anyway as soon as they got to 40.50 i called in and put another

£500 on the same spread, basically the same as tuesday but £500 @ +£50 per point and not £1000 @ +£100 per point.

So managed to grab them at an ok price again, i now will earn +£150 for every penny they rise... Despite the fall today they went back up

(i knew they would) Profits for both accounts at close of play today @ 4:30pm are £114.75 in Total


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

right ive been reading this thread with some interest and have a few questions if someone would be good enough to answer them

ive got about 2 grand lying around what i can invest

now im thinking of safety so going for this rbs long term buy the shares out right option

so lets say the shares were 42p each and i bought 2 grands worth id get 4761 shares, now say those shares fell to 30p what then ?ive not actually lost anything ? just the shares are worth less yes technically ive lost something but i still have the same amount of shares correct ?

but lets say they rise to 50p i would make, 380quid, once this happens can i sell them immediately and wont be charged for this ? and is there always a buyer available to buy them ?

how often does the price of these things change ? say how long would it take for a 8p increase or decrease to happen ?

if the shares did drop to say 30p would i be perfectly fine to just leave them alone for however long it took to go back up to say 50p ?

and finally how do i buy the shares ? i went on that hargreeves site typed in royal bank of scotland and theres loads to choose from dont undertsand it atall tbh


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Dave as you said if you buy at 40p and they drop to 30p then you dont have to sell untill you get a price you are happy with. If you are happy to sit with these shares and RBS dont go bust then the only way is up for them, My opinion only!!


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

The Raptor said:


> There are dozens of places to read, news sites like the FT are good: http://www.ft.com/uk/markets


no mate read up on perfect markets - this is exactly how people lose money following the latest trends in the media. You have to try and use your own info (which is nigh on impossible or called inside trading) or try to get a contrarian view which is also hard as what really is contrarian in that what you think may be contrarian is not and so on. There are only a handful of managers that even out perform the value weighted indexes!

I have traded IG Index for about 6 years - sometimes I win some I lose, its my fun money, I worked in portfolio management for 3/4 years in sales for a successful investment manager in uk and the USA, learnt a lot, mainly that I knew very little. For serious investments look at decent funds - do some research look at how they have performed in the past etc etc also take advantage of ISAs great way to set money aside for a pension. You can put 7K a year (it may be 10K this year not sure) away a year and all the profits are tax free - keep doing this year on year and you start to take advantage of compound interest which is how you make the big bucks.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

lee_ said:


> If you've got 2k I'd put it in some mutual funds personally unless you want to play the market and shelter it in a ISA.
> 
> Oh I'd really strongly advise against putting all of your money into one investment.
> 
> For most the first investment should be a realatively safe one in my view. When people get burn't on their first investment they often don't come back and it's shame because they are missing out.


 haha had written my reply before I read this - completely agree mate


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## itsjosh (Aug 17, 2010)

The Raptor said:


> RBS are down to 41p again, i recently made some money out of them and pulled it out at 50p at that precise time they went back down.. they will come back up now.. remember they were £7 before the bank collapsed and have not recovered, and it will. If it stays at low 40's in gonna back +£100 per pt to go up on a spread bet and gain some monies, if you put a 5/10 point guaranteed stop you can't really loose.. not with a 10pt stop anyway on a long term trade


ive got £1800 worth at 38p a share. Guarentee'd cant lose.

Hoping they go up alot more than 50p when it comes to the end of the term

(one benefit of working for the fkrs)


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

maccer said:


> no mate read up on perfect markets - this is exactly how people lose money following the latest trends in the media. You have to try and use your own info (which is nigh on impossible or called inside trading) or try to get a contrarian view which is also hard as what really is contrarian in that what you think may be contrarian is not and so on. There are only a handful of managers that even out perform the value weighted indexes!
> 
> I have traded IG Index for about 6 years - sometimes I win some I lose, its my fun money, I worked in portfolio management for 3/4 years in sales for a successful investment manager in uk and the USA, learnt a lot, mainly that I knew very little. For serious investments look at decent funds - do some research look at how they have performed in the past etc etc also take advantage of ISAs great way to set money aside for a pension. You can put 7K a year* (it may be 10K this year not sure)* away a year and all the profits are tax free - keep doing this year on year and you start to take advantage of compound interest which is how you make the big bucks.


Its £10200 now I believe.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

For those who PM'd me and i said i'd keep this thread posted, i decided to increase my +£150 per point on RBS to +£400

I pre ordered at a certain price incase it jumped when the market opened at 8am and it was a good choice as it moved over 1 point within the 1st 5 mins...

Im not counting my chickens and they have fallen somewhat in the last 10 mins but as i was last week, im confident the price will continue to rise on a whole

Edit:

And to those who said that using spread companies like ETX / IG is a bad idea... you'd need £160,000.00 of RBS shares bought outright to earn +£400 per point


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Practicing what you preach! Good luck raptor.


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## GM-20 (Feb 5, 2009)

to be honest, unless you have a tight grasp on what market you will invest in and how the trends run you will loose your money.

also if your going for short term then you will loose, as most sites have a 20 min lag, so your behind before you have started.

however there is a lot of money to be made especially if you are smart and not gready.

i work in currecny tradding for a canadian bank now, we use an arb system so in essence you cant loose.

what i have done with money is buy stock in a company of the vaule arround 50p and wait untill it goes up to 51p then sell. so for every £1 you make 2p. it doesnt sound a lot however. when you have £3750 on it then it adds up. also set a stop loss so if it all starts going tits up then you will only loose a set amount


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## Rasputin (Oct 16, 2010)

GM-20 said:


> to be honest, unless you have a tight grasp on what market you will invest in and how the trends run you will loose your money.
> 
> also if your going for short term then you will loose, as most sites have a 20 min lag, so your behind before you have started.
> 
> ...


Are you taking the **** your a pro trader and you trade equities like that? What sort of gearing are you using to make 2p viable must be pretty high? Even at 100:1 that sound like a crap way of taking a 2%. Its like trying to trade the index and scalp points unless you have a **** hot compter system doesnt seem viable. Who do you work for TD by any chance? Im looking for an FX trdaer for one of my hedge fund clients if your interested.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok so here's the deal i had 2k in RBS on a spread.. it was fine until a few days ago where a big crash happened, and with the talks of Portugal / Spain bail out most investors are fearing the worst for a while, this morning i was £750 down and said if i could get out today with a £250 loss i would. I sold at 38.821p and this leaves me with £1750 which is perfect timing.

Basically the BKIR (bank of ireland) are predicted to get good growth over the coming week, the bailout has been agreed for this bank and on sunday when the figures are properly 'announced' i see a jump in the share prices on monday... it may be slow for the next few days but i don't see them going down. I bought at 32.14p and backed at +£250 per point to go up with a 7 point stop so only if they fall to 25.14p will i loose the 1.75k

I am pi55ed that i sold the RBS at a £250 loss as i knew they would go up, they did shortly after i sold them but at the end of the day they could of just as easily fell down a lot more so im happy with my decision. BKIR seems to be much more healthy as a short term and good investment.


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## jonnas (Jun 24, 2009)

they up at 40p now. i bough £3k worth yesterday at 37.4p, and just sold there at 40.1p. nice £200 profit, less commision off halifax. i use halifax share dealing account, but does anyone know anywhere that doesnt charge you commission or anything, as i am getting sick of paying it. as soon as rbs go back down to 38p or less im straight back in. John


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

jonnas said:


> they up at 40p now. i bough £3k worth yesterday at 37.4p, and just sold there at 40.1p. nice £200 profit, less commision off halifax. i use halifax share dealing account, but does anyone know anywhere that doesnt charge you commission or anything, as i am getting sick of paying it. as soon as rbs go back down to 38p or less im straight back in. John


Do you think they will go back to 38p? I am hoping they do and stay low for a bit lol, but only because i pulled out...

People were talking about 34 etc being the rock bottom and i couldn't of imagined it, i just pulled out because there is more going on with the bank of ireland with the bailout... you should take a look bud


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## jonnas (Jun 24, 2009)

yeah, been keeping a track very closely last few days, checking every half an hour. havent seen as much movement as it has been in a while so thats why i got in. i honestly think with how volatile it is at the minute its bound to get down that low, maybe 38.5 at the lowest. im no expert tho, just going off daily high and min prices. this way you wont make a lot, but you certainly can make a nice £150 per day. but you do have to put a lot up front.

yeah, im gonna have a look at that tonight when i get in from work. been following lloyds lately too, seems like you could make a bit from that as they are up and down all the time now too.

im just working with money that i have made in the last few month from it, so to me everything i make from now on is a bonus, if i loose a little, it wasnt really my cash that i lost.

best advice to give anyone is to do research, and dont just dive in to what you get told. a lot of people, myself included, arent experts and can never predict the market. i do this just as a bit of fun, to try and make a little cash. if share prices drop, i keep them in as i know the majority of the time, they will go up. if they continue to go down, i get out and count my losses.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

jonnas said:


> they up at *40p* now. i bough £3k worth yesterday at 37.4p, and just sold there at 40.1p. nice £200 profit, less commision off halifax. i use halifax share dealing account, but does anyone know anywhere that doesnt charge you commission or anything, as i am getting sick of paying it. as soon as rbs go back down to 38p or less im straight back in. John


42.355 already! Looks like me and you sold out at the wrong time










So although i didn't loose out much its cost me a 4 figure sum to what i 'could' of made....

On a positive note  the BKIR shares i got (bank of ireland) are up 6.29% today already... booooyaaaaaa

And im happy with being on these, i mean hell.. what the fcuk is gonna happen next week when BKIR are given

€90 Billion for the bailout??? Tuesday here we come mwuhaha


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

james12345 said:


> no offence and this comment isnt directed towards you,
> 
> but this is imo why would shouldnt play with spread betting, theres a reason its called betting unless your a pro your v unlikely to come out on top in the long run, and some people who have monitored markets for a long time and have inside info + know pretty much everything there is to know still likely to come unstuck.


If i had stuck to my initial instinct i'd of done alright with RBS... i only left them with fear of a downward trend that people were going on about, i left for Bank of ireland and thats more promising and cut the 250 loss as i knew i'd make it back which i did, would of been better if i had waited a few days but no one knows when is best to get in and out same as buying outright and many of the city boys sold when it hit 37/38 fearing the same, some of them sold millions outright so im sure they are not pleased about missing a 10%+ surge... im confident that BKIR will continue to increase.. there was a 6% increase today alone, its come down a little now but the only way is up for them imo... especially when the bailout is announced on tuesday


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

still aint got round to setting up a share account. Prob gonna use halifax as its pretty easy to use going by there fantasy game.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> still aint got round to setting up a share account. Prob gonna use halifax as its pretty easy to use going by there fantasy game.


Bank of Ireland were up 6% today and following a trend, i was on a shares forum and we were all waiting for the US employment figures to be released as these normally effect the markets quite a bit and we were hoping for a total of a 10% increase by the end of the day.... anyway the news was bad so they came down as did many markets, making it a perfect time to buy at €0.31 as they were €0.33 earlier today and will go back up... and when the €90 billion gets signed over on tuesday BOOOOOOM (as nc007 would say)


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

cmon keep this thread goin im going to invest soon


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

sticky?


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

need some help getting a stock broker

tried to go with the one suggested hargeaves lansdown

attempted to set up an isa with my 2k but got rejected said i needed a minimum or 3k

was going to use td waterhouse, but then seen id get charged 10 pound per quarter because i wont be an active trader, 30pound admin fee 35pound to withdraw my money !!!! and all other crap

whos a good solid stockborker who wont rape me in fees and will let me set up an isa with 2k ?????


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## AlanBud123 (Mar 27, 2009)

just be careful and do things in short bursts. I was lucky enough to make enough to pay off my mortgage. But then invested in a bigger property with a bigger mortgage  RBS and Lloyds look good to me at the mo


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

can someone reply to my previous post

i want to start investing tonight


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> can someone reply to my previous post
> 
> i want to start investing tonight


Halifax Stockbrokers do a good shares account bud, personally i do CFD's so more risky but more to gain imo...

And for those who asked me to keep them updated, im up +£500 this morning and the markets only been open an hour... here's to a good week :thumbup1:

Btw it was BKIR (bank of ireland) and i had +£325 per point, i'd recommend anyone to get on before the budget is announced on tuesday! If you don't want to risk the money on a CFD just buy the shares outright before tomorrow and then sell within a few weeks, trust me this is a good buy.. i predict a 25% increase or more and thats being pessimistic.. up 4.29% this morning already!


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

thanks for the reply pal

just checked them out there no good either

they charge between 2.83 - 8.50 PER MONTH ADMIN FEE

i dont like all these charges, maybe its just me ?

i mean fair enough charge me to do trades and take comission

but charging these monthly admin fees and fees to withdraw my money and all this

is there not anywhere without the admin fees etc


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> thanks for the reply pal
> 
> just checked them out there no good either
> 
> ...


Any stockbroker is a business, and as a business they charge admin fees etc... how much are you looking to invest bud? £2.83 a month aint gonna break the bank is it, but i suppose it depends on how much your looking to put in bud, if its a small amount and you don't want the costs of buying and selling maybe an ISA on the high street would be better?


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

i know it doesnt seem much

but i might lose all my money doing this so i dont want any extra fees

im not going to be a big trader trading lots every week

ive just got 2k to put in

i wanted to go with hargreaves lansdown but i need 3k

ive got 3 investments in my mind what im going to take a split 1000pound between them

and then leave it for a good while and i dont want to be being charged up to 8 pound a month for nothing ?

sureley there must be ones who dont charge admin fees


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> i know it doesnt seem much
> 
> but i might lose all my money doing this so i dont want any extra fees
> 
> ...


There may be but i don't know of any that hold for free, if i were you i'd go for the £2.88pcm one, thats less than £35 for the year... you can't expect a company to buy and sell and hold shares for free? After all they are a business buddy... out of interest what shares you got your eye on?


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

well im gona take rbs and im gonna get these irish ones u said HA

the other tho is my own and is mxp

max petroleum have a look at it see what you think


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> well im gona take rbs and im gonna get these irish ones u said HA
> 
> the other tho is my own and is mxp
> 
> max petroleum have a look at it see what you think


If you are looking for long term with the RBS yes, but if a quick turnaround then you have just missed a 12% increase... I sold mine on the day it started to happen as did many others, some sold 5 mil worth on the worst possible day! But thats the thing with shares, you never know when.... the money i 'would of made' i have made back with BKIR and thats why i jumped in with them, they are a sure thing. RBS 'could' retrace back down from 42 to 37ish remember the word 'could' and thats why im out of them for now. But as a long term you'd be fine as they will be seeing 50p+ by April next year... personally i'd get the £1k in BKIR asap! You'll be buying me a virtual pint in a few weeks as they will go as planned, also (hot news) Santander are rumoured to be buying 15% of BKIR which would mean BKIR would not need to up the government stake any more to recover. < Thats not even hit the news yet but is from inside someone who works in the Bank of Ireland


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

right ill trust what you say then

ill put 800 into bkir

lets see how things go . . . .


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Good luck, and don't worry if they come down a few cents before they go up, it happens all the time... they are a safe bet imo, im no Warren Buffett but i can assure you, you'll be pleased at how fast they grow :thumbup1:


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

ha yeh hope so !

have a look at that mxp

if they find oil its meant to take offff big time

im gonna invest asap

a question though im gonna use interactive investor as my broker

say i want to invest as soon as i set up my account can i transfer funds direcxtly there and get going straight away ?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> ha yeh hope so !
> 
> have a look at that mxp
> 
> ...


Some take a few days to set up, others allow you to trade on the same day.. and yeah had a look at MXP.... not done any research on them but they could be a good buy 'if they find oil' but remember they are 19.1 now and they were 11 in october so if they don't hit oil they will come back down, but then again i have not researched them so have no idea whats going on with them


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## thermique (Sep 15, 2010)

Do your own research of course, but please be careful with AIM listed oilies, as someone on the inside of the industry you would be horrified at the amount of manipulation and dodgy practices that takes place with some of these stocks.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

The Raptor said:


> True you need to read read read, i got cocky once after a few wins when i was uneducated on the markets. I lost £1000 in 16 minutes while i was on lunch break at work, i was devastated as i really can't afford to loose any way near that money, but that was day trading on spreadbetting and it won't happen again i hope... on long term holds your at much lower risk, especially when you do your research and structure it to your favour


day trading and spread betting is for bunnies.... unless its your full time job. I've done it for work- full access to a bloomberg terminal, spreadsheets with modelling macros that automatically draw your pay of curves (for options) etc... 5 screens in total, and...it was a 12 hour day in front of the screen.. gave it up as a joke and started structuring transactions that would lead to an IPO.. so I KNEW what money I could make before I started...

There's an old saying amongst stock market professionals:

"how do you make a small fortune on the stock market?................... start with a large one!" ;-)


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## thermique (Sep 15, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> day trading and spread betting is for bunnies.... unless its your full time job. I've done it for work- full access to a bloomberg terminal, spreadsheets with modelling macros that automatically draw your pay of curves (for options) etc... 5 screens in total, and...it was a 12 hour day in front of the screen.. gave it up as a joke and started structuring transactions that would lead to an IPO.. so I KNEW what money I could make before I started...
> 
> There's an old saying amongst stock market professionals:
> 
> "how do you make a small fortune on the stock market?................... start with a large one!" ;-)


One of the few sensible posts in this thread.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> day trading and spread betting is for bunnies.... unless its your full time job. I've done it for work- full access to a bloomberg terminal, spreadsheets with modelling macros that automatically draw your pay of curves (for options) etc... 5 screens in total, and...it was a 12 hour day in front of the screen.. gave it up as a joke and started structuring transactions that would lead to an IPO.. so I KNEW what money I could make before I started...
> 
> There's an old saying amongst stock market professionals:
> 
> "how do you make a small fortune on the stock market?................... *start with a large one!"* ;-)


Well i don't have a large fortune but im happy, i have made over £1000 today... spread betting is for bunnies?

But out of interest what is IPO?

And for the people who asked to keep updated, +3.30 point increase at £325 per point, so over a 10% increase on Bank Of Ireland


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

The Raptor said:


> Well i don't have a large fortune but im happy, i have made over £1000 today... spread betting is for bunnies?
> 
> But out of interest what is IPO?
> 
> And for the people who asked to keep updated, +3.30 point increase at £325 per point, so over a 10% increase on Bank Of Ireland


i'm glad to hear your £1000 up today... of course its called spread betting, so that means you've never lost right? ;-)

An IPO is an Initial Public Offering- its when a company is "floated" on the stock market (in the UK the LSE or AIM). The pre-IPO investors of course make the most money...


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> *right ill trust what you say then*
> 
> *ill put 800 into bkir*
> 
> lets see how things go . . . .


Please tell me you did before the boom?

And ausbuilt sounds interesting.. how does it all work?


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Bkir go up 4 points 2day?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Bkir go up 4 points 2day?


Yeap and i had +£325 per point for each point of the ride, and i will get another 3/4 points tomorrow too


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

no i didnt do it before the boom

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

what boom how much have i missed out on ? is it not worth investing any more ?

i signed up with interative investors and its the most difficult thing ever

everytime i click on buy shares it just redirects me and trys 2 make me open the account which ive already opened

bad times for me


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> no i didnt do it before the boom
> 
> arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> ...


With 800 squids on a straight buy this morning with a 12.27% rise you would of got about £90.16 profit from todays trading

Kinda makes you think that the £2.88 fee you were worried about with H&L etc aint that much to worry about?

No big deal anyway buddy, if i were you i'd buy now... personally i'd do a CFD with the 800 but i don't want to instruct

you how to do something which is risky, as CFD's are exactly that, they will continue to rise over the next few weeks


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

yeh its on its **** this whole thing

im gonna miss out on it all

ive tried signing up to 2 websites now

and they BOTH wont properly start up my account until i recieve letters from them

one witha password and the other to prove who i am

ANNOYING

do they all do this i just want to invest soooooon


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

They have a trading desk to call but i suppose these will be closed now, unfortunate mate as we are going to see 40+ tomorrow

Maybe as soon as the gate opens...


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Dave10 said:


> i know it doesnt seem much
> 
> but i might lose all my money doing this so i dont want any extra fees
> 
> ...


Use Selftrade, no minimum with these guys and they offer the trailing stop loss facility which many of the others do not.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok So i have a good feeling about this and im going to put more money and more risk in to it, im adding an extra +£75 per point to BKIR before the bailout (without a stop) so tomorrow i will not be able to peel my eyes from the computer screen for more than a few seconds incase something happens and i need to close out the +£75 extra before it fcucks with the other +£325.... so +£400 per point, in total to buy meaning go up.. as they say he who dares wins (or he who is stupid enough to risk it lol)... if the bailout is passed it should continue to grow and many people i know will be having a good weekend, if not many people i know will cry. If all goes well im going to treat myself to a super fit escort or two some time soon 

Dave10 were going to do a 'virtual' experiment with your £800... the riskiest yet best thing you could do with £800 quid right now realistically without being too stupid would be a putting big amounts on per point with a lowish stop eg 4pts, imo this would maximise your chances as there is more to win that loose (imo) But it would be very risky... a good day would = happy days, and a bad day = lost the lot... here's the virtual pun we'll do:

+£200 per point to buy with a 4 point stop... its currently at €0.36,6 meaning if it drops to €0.32,6 you have lost the £800

So remember every cent it rises you have made 200 squids, eg finish up on €0.38,6 (your £400 better off in a day)

Feel free to put this on a CFD or a Spread but im not advising you too unless you can afford to loose £800 anyway at close tomorrow and each day this week we'll see what you could of made / lost.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 would be £400 up in 30 mins, BKIR up 6% or 2 points to 38.6 (was 36.6 before 8am)

Here's to another good day :thumbup1:


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

dont rub it in thanks

haha


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Raptor would he have got it at 36 though? It opened on 38 so he would have had to take it at market open like a stock or when you bet can you take it at a previous close (pre 8am)?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Magic Torch said:


> Raptor would he have got it at 36 though? It opened on 38 so he would have had to take it at market open like a stock or when you bet can you take it at a previous close (pre 8am)?


If you use a platform like ETX Capital you can place an order, so basically if the price is 36.6 cents you can place your order a pip above... roughly 36.65 so this means if the gate opens and it shoots up like you wanted to it will of automatically opened your position :thumbup1:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok so market closed for today... buying in to the Bank Of Ireland last week paid off, the magic happened yesterday by 4 points and again today by more than 5.. Over 3.5k in 2 trading days, just sat here now sipping on wine... HELL YEAH!

And the Dave10 experiment if you would of put your £800 where i said this morning you'd have over £1800 from €0.36,6 to €0.41,9 with £200 per point

EDIT: That had my account number and name on ha


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

ignore what happens when you paper trade as it never works in reality

even the best algorythmic systems dont work out as well in the market place unless they exploit some particular arbitrage

have fun trading at home but dont risk more than you can afford to lose

also be careful as giving out investment actual advice is a regulated activity


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Raptor are you pulling out ur money now on Bkir or sticking with your £400 per point? Also does your 4 point stop stay at the inital rate you bough at? or is it a 4 point drop for each starting trading point?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

noel said:


> ignore what happens when you paper trade as it never works in reality
> 
> even the best algorythmic systems dont work out as well in the market place unless they exploit some particular arbitrage
> 
> ...


I only trade independently as an investor bud, not gonna get told off for showing what i do.. never told anyone to follow


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2010)

Great thread this. I am reading bits and bobs on the whole subject, some very nice work The Raptor enjoy that wine bro!


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## Hardc0re (Apr 21, 2009)

The Raptor said:


> Ok so market closed for today... buying in to the Bank Of Ireland last week paid off, the magic happened yesterday by 4 points and again today by more than 5.. Over 3.5k in 2 trading days, just sat here now sipping on wine... HELL YEAH!
> 
> And the Dave10 experiment if you would of put your £800 where i said this morning you'd have over £1800 from €0.36,6 to €0.41,9 with £200 per point
> 
> EDIT: That had my account number and name on ha


Well done in your trading mate. I would try a little flutter, however my work place doesnt allow me to.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Hardc0re said:


> Well done in your trading mate. I would try a little flutter, however my work place doesnt allow me to.


Lol hypothetically speaking what would stop you opening up an account under your mum/dad/nan/birds name and crediting the account with your own funds?

What they gonna do? FBI come smashing through your window with ropes :lol:


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## Hardc0re (Apr 21, 2009)

You do have a point. But dont think I will risk it, lol.

I enjoying listening to what you guys are doing.


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

How was things today raptor? You still in?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

milner575 said:


> How was things today raptor? You still in?


I had a target of £4000 profit which i hit, liquidation value was £6000 as i started with £2000

I did a transfer of £5000 in to my bank account and left £1000 in ETX i reopened a position and with a grand,

the most they would give me was +£118 per point which im happy with as the rest of the money is safe and

BKIR will continue to rise over the next few weeks and hopefully double the grand


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

How gutted am I...... lol


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

milner575 said:


> How gutted am I...... lol


Bet you didn't think all that would actually end up happening in just 2 days trading ay...

Oh well next time you may be prepared bud


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

No way I thought you'd make it so quick mate. Just gutted I couldn't release any money in time. Ah well ey. Glad you did well anyway . :beer:


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Up again today i see. I still aint opened a halifax trading accout yet so missed out myself. Still think RBS are worth a backing though?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Up again today i see. I still aint opened a halifax trading accout yet so missed out myself. *Still think RBS are worth a backing though?*


Yes its a good time for RBS mate, as well as Bank of ireland.... im £789.03 up today, which proves my point.

p.s i upped to +£240 per pt


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

i did have a nose earlier and see they are still on the rise . . . just kicking a man when he's down now :lol:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

milner575 said:


> i did have a nose earlier and see they are still on the rise . . . *just kicking a man when he's down now* :lol:


There's always plenty of opportunities mate, after all there are 1000's of companies to to choose from daily


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

Fair play Rapture - you put you're money where you mouth is. Just be careful you will get bitten mate if you are not disciplined. Good luck


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

maccer said:


> Fair play Rapture - you put you're money where you mouth is. Just be careful you will get bitten mate if you are not disciplined. Good luck


Have been bitten in the past mate, have lost 4 figure sums in a matter of seconds and well.... *it hurts* lol. Anyway i have kept a diary of all my transactions, profits / losses and 90% of my losses were due to greed and wanting a quick buck. Any trade i do now are done as an informed decision, as an example if i choose a stock i'll choose it because i know that its going to go up in the next month or so, if it does what i want in 7 days then so be it, if not then simply hold... but i won't jump head 1st in to day trades no more, especially if its a volatile market as thats how you loose money. Anyway i'll keep this thread posted bud as a lot have asked too and i feel its something people should take advantage of, or at least try if they have spare cash and are good with numbers


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

How did you get on today raptor? looks like you pulled out most of ur money at right time again as i see BKIR dropped today?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> How did you get on today raptor? looks like you pulled out most of ur money at right time again as i see BKIR dropped today?


Yes i pulled most out but still ended up leaving 2k in the account, then put another 1k in, so 2k in total...

Yesterday and at 10am today i was up £789.... im now -£939 meaning -£1728 lighter today

BUT its not over until the fat lady sings, we all know that being in negative equity on the stock market doesn't mean you will be in a few days time, if it was done perfectly (which no one could predict) i would of closed at a the highest point today and then bought bought back in at the lowest point, but who is to know what is gonna be the highest and lowest.. no one.

Considering im down 2 grand in a day im reasonably chilled out about it, just hope it picks up

Once it got in to the red i just left it to its own accord and went out


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## P.B.T.A (Sep 24, 2010)

Tried spread betting for the first time today

£125 up.

(on my demo account) :tongue:


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## Hardc0re (Apr 21, 2009)

Whats the plans for this week raptor?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Hardc0re said:


> Whats the plans for this week raptor?


1st of all let me tell thee, major relief as i said from the £4000 profit last week i ended up leaving in £2000 within a day that was up to £2800 so i all was happy days, there was a market collapse on friday which seen a 16% collapse on my precious BKIR shares and no one was prepared for it... now since i was spread betting i was at major risk, from +£2800 i fell all the way to -£1700 in my account and the total funds i was trading with was £2000, basically one more pip and i was out! It closed on friday just *one* point away from my stop loss. BUT even though i was at serious risk of loosing it all i was not worried because the USA figures were recovering, if you look at a certain share price in other countries eg BKIR is IRE in USA you can often get an indication of whats going to happen. Now with IRE recovering well before the weekend close it meant we 'should' make up for it with the european counterpart, come 8:00 am today if you look at the charts you'll see a definitive jump in the share price (taking me away for danger zone) and giving me a feeling of relief.

If you would like to know how to use different trading time zones to your advantage, here's how:

As an example BKIR's USA counterpart is IRE:

They are dealt at 4:1 so 4 uk shares = 1 USA share http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=IRE

NOW here's the clever bit, as i type this they stand at $2.89 meaning €2.17 divided by 4 = €0.54

UK and Ireland price is currently: €0.42 so we are way undervalued.....

Over this week watch the price increase even more, remember it was at €0.32 when i got involved.

Fridays crash reminded me that any market can collapse without warning, luckily i allowed enough space for this to happen but 1 point .. jeez, close!

Im still £500 down of my profits from friday but thats better than being £1700 down, in effect i have lost nothing as i believe they are on the way back up but if i would of known exactly what was going to happen (no one does) i would of sold at €0.48 on friday and then bought back in at €0.38... once i was in the red i wasn't going to sell at a loss so just had to hold tight and hope for the best, luckily it looks like i am ok.

But who knows any stock market could collapse at any second.

So to answer the OP will be on BKIR until i state otherwise as i still believe they are the best share available right now


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## lazy (May 5, 2010)

I haven't read this entire thread but if you are indeed spread betting then I suggest you take any profits(and more likely losses) and run. Its a sure fire way to loose your shirt, your house, your life.

In trading terms its probably just about as risky as you can get. Its pure gambling, not investing.

Spread betting has a place and is good fun but I certainly wouldn't have more than 10% of my portfolio "invested" in it.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lazy, each to their own... i feel i can make more money from doing it this way than buying right now....

If i had £50,000.00 in the bank that i could trade with i'd be buying them outright, but i don't.

Loads of people do ok from spread betting / CFD's its no more gambling than buying outright


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## tempnatural (Jul 8, 2010)

read the whole post, was interesting, still dont understand a single thing about shares though, haha


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

lazy said:


> I haven't read this entire thread but if you are indeed spread betting then I suggest you take any profits(and more likely losses) and run. Its a sure fire way to loose your shirt, your house, your life.
> 
> In trading terms its probably just about as risky as you can get. Its pure gambling, not investing.
> 
> Spread betting has a place and is good fun but I certainly wouldn't have more than 10% of my portfolio "invested" in it.


Mate, this is a ridiculous statement, spreadbetting is just a different platform to execute your trades by, as long as you've researched why you are entering the trade and planned everything properly you are no more or less likely to win or lose than if you executed your trade via a broker, CFDs, DMA etc. Just place the stop losses accordingly and it's just as safe as any other trading method.

Now if someone were to start playing with the huge leverage/margin offered by the spreadbetting firms then they could get into trouble but anyone with any sense would know to stick within their actual deposit amount and it's no different to regular trading the traditional way.

I have a broker account and a couple of spreadbetting accounts and I rarely use the broker account. The spreadbet firms platforms are much more user friendly. I have used spreadbetting for years for long term holds and for day trading. I have traded equities, commodities, indices and currencies all via spreadbetting and been consistently profitable with all of them. It's all about the discipline of the user and nothing to do with the platform used.

My current long term 'buy and hold' winner is gold which I invested in back in Feb at 1065, it now sits at 1395. I believe it will hit 2000 (at least) within the next 12-18 months.


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## lazy (May 5, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> My current long term 'buy and hold' winner is gold which I invested in back in Feb at 1065, it now sits at 1395. I believe it will hit 2000 (at least) within the next 12-18 months.


Now that we can agree on! 

I bought in at 600 in the early 2000s, but again I only invested 15% in it so the gains are modest when you look at the whole portfolio.

Its my opinion that as long as you don't put all your eggs in one basket while investing its pretty easy to get a 7-10% growth, even in bad times.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> Mate, this is a ridiculous statement, spreadbetting is just a different platform to execute your trades by, as long as you've researched why you are entering the trade and planned everything properly you are no more or less likely to win or lose than if you executed your trade via a broker, CFDs, DMA etc. Just place the stop losses accordingly and it's just as safe as any other trading method.
> 
> Now if someone were to start playing with the huge leverage/margin offered by the spreadbetting firms then they could get into trouble but anyone with any sense would know to stick within their actual deposit amount and it's no different to regular trading the traditional way.
> 
> ...


Very well said, people seem to think that because of the word spread 'betting' that its some kind of dice roll......

If you want to make money from a share and you expect them to go up then what difference is it? Now as an example if a share price eg RBS stands at 40p and you put a 20 point stop on it, its not very risky at all, and if god forbid the price fell from 40p to 20p then you'd be more down from buying then outright then on a spread bet / CFD. And if you really want to, on a spread you could move the stop to 15 if need be or 10

People seem to go on about spreadbetting to be some crazy gamble, yes 95% of people who do it will loose but 95% of people who trade in general have no idea what they are doing and just do it for the sake of it, with informed decisions spread betting can and does pay off


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

How does your point setting affect your odds? Ie; If i had to have £200 at 5 point stop or £200 at 25 point stop? I presume the more you risk the higher the rewards?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> How does your point setting affect your odds? Ie; If i had to have £200 at 5 point stop or £200 at 25 point stop? I presume the more you risk the higher the rewards?


If you had £200 per point with a 5 point stop you'd need at least £1000 in your account, 10 point stop £2000 and 25 points £5000

So the longer you put the stop the safer you are, but if something unheard of happened you could loose a lot, its all about working

out what the lowest it could go and putting a stop there, of corse people still get that wrong as no one knows for sure


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## thermique (Sep 15, 2010)

The Raptor said:


> spread betting / CFD's its no more gambling than buying outright


No I know we've discusssed the merits of spread bettings vs other forms of investing, and people have opinions as to whether its gambling etc, but the above statement is just plain wrong.

When a spread hits its expiration you are left with either a profit or loss from your bet (of course you can roll over but that is analogous to opening another bet), with shares I may be sitting on a paper profit/loss on a certain date but I still own an underlying asset.


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

thermique said:


> No I know we've discusssed the merits of spread bettings vs other forms of investing, and people have opinions as to whether its gambling etc, but the above statement is just plain wrong.
> 
> When a spread hits its expiration you are left with either a profit or loss from your bet (of course you can roll over but that is analogous to opening another bet), with shares I may be sitting on a paper profit/loss on a certain date but I still own an underlying asset.


What we're all really interested in in the end though is the final product i.e. the profit, what vehicle we used to get there is almost irrelevant, it's not like you can do anything with that asset except hold or sell it.

The exception to this would be if you had some sort of emotional attachment to your shares, perhaps if they were in the football team you supported or similar, in any case this is not the best approach when trying to make consisitent profits.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

thermique said:


> No I know we've discusssed the merits of spread bettings vs other forms of investing, and people have opinions as to whether its gambling etc, but the above statement is just plain wrong.
> 
> When a spread hits its expiration you are left with either a profit or loss from your bet (of course you can roll over but that is analogous to opening another bet), with shares I may be sitting on a paper profit/loss on a certain date but I still own an underlying asset.


My spreads never hit expiration, as i do rolling ones... even on a spread what has a large amount per point eg £400 per point you only get charged a small fee of about £3 per night it rolls over, you will only get closed out on an expired bet if you choose one that has an expiry date eg FTSE 100 day, if you chose FTSE 100 rolling daily you wouldn't have that issue


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Ditto, I use the rolling daily spreads also.

Which platform do you use Raptor?


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## Mark j (Oct 28, 2009)

Iv got £350 quid I want to invest lol. What should I look at and how do I start


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> Ditto, I use the rolling daily spreads also.
> 
> Which platform do you use Raptor?


I use ETXcapital.co.uk at the min but im starting to think that IG Index may be better as i haven't had as much issues with inaccuracy

Sometimes ETX can be a little inaccurate, and when it closes it can be slightly off and only gets updated at 10pm

Although ETX looks better imo


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

BKIR getting a bit of a kicking today


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Mark j said:


> Iv got £350 quid I want to invest lol. What should I look at and how do I start


I'd save that cash until you have at least a grand, in the mean time open a demo account and trade with virtual money to get used to how it all works.



The Raptor said:


> I use ETXcapital.co.uk at the min but im starting to think that IG Index may be better as i haven't had as much issues with inaccuracy
> 
> Sometimes ETX can be a little inaccurate, and when it closes it can be slightly off and only gets updated at 10pm
> 
> Although ETX looks better imo


I'm with IG and Tradefair. Tradefair is by far the superior platform, very user friendly and the accuracy is very good IME. The problem is that they don't have as wide a range of trade options i.e. on the whole they only offer the markets with the highest liquidity. IG offer pretty much everything whether it's low cap or not but I find that it is not uncommon for their site tend to slow down quite badly at times, the layout is more cluttered too but still O.K. overall. I've only had a few minor issues with accuracy.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich B... I'll have a look at that Tradefair, cheers for that bud

Marc J yeah with £350 its probably best saved up, in the mean time buy a few books and use a demo account :thumbup1:


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Check it out, the user interface is very innovative but as I said there are very few low cap stocks, you wouldn't be able to trade BKIR on there for example.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

maccer said:


> BKIR getting a bit of a kicking today


There is a 2 hour debate on the Bailout and then the vote at 1:30 which im sure will be passed, it got to €0.37,3 today from €0.47 last week 

And lol i swear i was so so lucky, it plummeted today and my stop was at €0.37 just €0.00,3 more and that was thousands gone!

I have now moved the stop down and am hoping the vote (if passed) will bring us back up, either way i am still in profits whether i loose this or not

Im confident the vote will pass


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

yes its been approved - shall follow with interest!!


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

maccer said:


> yes its been approved - shall follow with interest!!


Mate im LAUGHING here, when the share price plummeted before the bailout it got aaaallllll the way down to €0.36,1

My fcuking stop loss was at €0.36! and it was only there because i moved it 'just incase' this morning 

I nearly lost 1000's! Anyway onwards and upwards now (we hope) we seen €0.41 after the vote but is down slightly,

I predict a good opening of around €0.42 tomorrow at 8:00am

No one was expecting a collapse that big over the week but looks like it may be behind now the vote is passed,

Also more good news to come tomorrow and the debt swap on friday so all steam ahead... go BKIR


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## lazy (May 5, 2010)

Not only are you day trading, but your also trading in shares of ruined banks?? lol

I must admit I made some money out of lloyds a while back though.

I couldn't think of a riskier trading position to be in!!

One thing I've learned about the stock market is that the little guy always looses.

But good luck to you.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lazy said:


> Not only are you day trading, but your also trading in shares of ruined banks?? lol
> 
> I must admit I made some money out of lloyds a while back though.
> 
> ...


Do you mind if i ask what makes you think BKIR is a ruined bank? Its one of the best shares on the market, used to trade @ €17 and now down to €0.40 even last year they were at €3.50 after all the sh!t. This bank has seen bad times but they are a very strong bank, unlike Allied Irish Bank they will not be Nationalised... and are in a very strong position to recover very well, everything bad that 'could' happen has already happened so is built in to the share price, we're going to be seeing €0.50 in the near future and even €1 in the not too distant future imo.

And hey i don't mean this in a cocky way but if you're such an expert wheres your money on?

Would be beneficial for me and everyone else in this thread to know where your puns are

By the way i don't recommend Spread betting i just answered a PM in depth then explaining

that there are many risks etc, although i don't mind telling people what trades i have done


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## lazy (May 5, 2010)

My money is in property, gold and paying off the mortgage right now. I should be laughing when interest rates inevitably start rising again.

I did well out of stocks before the collapse and got out just in time(mostly due to selftrade bringing in an admin fee lol). I was invested in funds mostly and got over 12% for a few years with my perpetual investco high income fund. I figure its much better to let the big boys who know what they are doing manage my portfolio.

You are investing at a good time, buy low, sell high and all that but I just think the risk of BKIR is too great. Remember even if they do well its likely they will suddenly dilute your share holding to raise yet more funds.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lazy said:


> My money is in property, gold and paying off the mortgage right now. I should be laughing when interest rates inevitably start rising again.
> 
> I did well out of stocks before the collapse and got out just in time(mostly due to selftrade bringing in an admin fee lol). I was invested in funds mostly and got over 12% for a few years with my perpetual investco high income fund. I figure its much better to let the big boys who know what they are doing manage my portfolio.
> 
> You are investing at a good time, buy low, sell high and all that but I just think the risk of BKIR is too great. Remember even if they do well its likely they will suddenly dilute your share holding to raise yet more funds.


If there is a rights issue where shares are dealt at a discounted rate to raise capital it will not be for a large amount, they have proposed to raise most the capital through debt swaps and the likes... the government will be paying the rest although they may be a small rights issue but i'd sell before then, and worst comes to worst the government may get 35-40% of the bank but thats nothing compared to someone like ALIB who will be at 99.9% so it could be a good pun but of corse we have different opinions, oh and RE self trade... if you were doing that well surely an annual fee of £35 and £12.50 per trade isn't something to be concerned about?


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

right raptor im ready to go

just got my letter today with my password so i can fully register and trade stocks

2 grand to play with, what you saying ????

i wana slap a few 100 pound singles on some risky ones aswel that might turn bigggg


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> right raptor im ready to go
> 
> just got my letter today with my password so i can fully register and trade stocks
> 
> ...


As they say in the stockmarket DYOR lol, meaning 'do your own research'...

Don't mean that in a funny way but no one has the answer of whats going to do well and whats not,

Although im happy to say where i'd put it and if you listen its at your risk, how you looking to trade? buying, Spreading, CFD's?


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

buying

basically id wana do it like this

1000 pound somewhere that may give me a return of about 300+ by summer ? so say one of these banks ?

then id have say 3 high risk ones what id put 100 pound each into

and then whatever with the other 700

dont even know what cfds are tbh, spread betting looks good but id have to do more research


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> buying
> 
> basically id wana do it like this
> 
> ...


I'd recommend not spread betting or doing CFD's until you knew more about it (CFD's are similar to spread betting) so very risky...

Ok so £1000 now with minimum risk would be best on the RBS you will get roughly 2500 shares for £1000 as they are just over 40p each

RBS have been at an all time low for 3 years, and they are now on the way back up, so its the perfect time.....

HSBC another safe bet but they are more like £6.60 per share but are on a steady upwards trend,

BKIR will still be on the way up by summer but i'd not recommend it as there is a rights issue (possibly) in the near future which would bring

the price down, so would wait to buy or do a short term trade (again riskier) and regarding the rest you could even look in to gold or silver

Or if you want to risk getting gains you could look for a good mining company or oil digging company, but if your looking to do 3 x £100

trades your wasting your time as most brokers charge about £12.50 to £15 per trade, which company have you gone for?


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

the ones ive heard should be doing well are

mxp

ascent resources

and thats it

id stick 100quid on those to happily just as a punt and see how it goes


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

My current portfolio looks as follows for anyone who's interested:

*Commodities*

Gold: Bought at 1095 - currently 1385

*Equities*

Exillon Energy: Bought at 210 - currently 326

Medusa Mining: Bought at 305 - currently 418

IMI: Bought at 775 - currently 915

CPP: Bought at 245 - currently 280

*Currencies*

EURUSD: Sold at 1.3440 - currently 1.3260 (for those that aren't familiar with spread betting this means I am profiting from the fall in price)

EURJPY: Bought at 105.95 - currently 111.65

USDJPY: Bought at 82.85 - currently 84.18

The above are all spread bets and all currently in profit - it's extremely rare for all open positions to be winners, usually there would be a few making losses in there too but I have got rid of some losers lately.

I have also have two equities in my broker account, they are:

Petrofac: Bought at 1305 - currently 1479

XP Power: Bought at 660 - currently 1080

I also have a 10% stake in my ex-boss' portfolio but I'd be here all night typing that one out but it is also currently in profit.

Over the years I've found that the four key areas to get right when investing are:

1. Do your research - fundamental and technical analysis

2. Carefully plan your entry point

3. Use stop loss orders

4. Don't be too keen to take profits, hanging on to the winners can bring some nice returns

Hope this helps


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich B, nice portfolio and good advice bud... and thats more proof that spread betting isn't always much riskier than buying

and Dave10 good luck and let us know what you end up doing


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Dave10 said:


> the ones ive heard should be doing well are
> 
> mxp
> 
> ...


I've just had a look at the two you've mentioned above, they really are punts mate and you'd be gambling IMO, especially MXP it's extremely volatile, I personally wouldn't touch that with a bargepole. AST looks marginally more appealing but I still wouldn't go near it.

You really should go for some safer options for your first investments, larger cap stocks on the main market, try to avoid AIM for now as they are a lot riskier. This isn't a tip but I'm currently considering adding to my gold investment, the price has dropped back a bit recently, when it bottoms out I'm planning on piling into it again to catch the bounce, I strongly believe it will rise steadily over the next 6-12 months and probably beyond.


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

when you say you have looked into them

where have you done this ?

is there a forum like this one but for stocks and shares etc ? ive found a few but they dont seem very active if atall

why wouldnt you touch them ?

that ascent resources is on somethings watch list forgot what it was it was some big investment thing and mxp is tipped to be teh next rockhopper

clueless me as you can tell . . . .

so basically this thousand pounds of safety investment which im going to do one of you says gold one says rbs which is best ? or is there a better one ha


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## lazy (May 5, 2010)

Dave10 said:


> 1000 pound somewhere that may give me a return of about 300+ by summer ? so say one of these banks ?


haha nice! so you want a 30% return in 6 months? Better go speak to Bernie Madoff!!


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lazy said:


> haha nice! so you want a 30% return in 6 months? Better go speak to Bernie Madoff!!


Lets see if RBS get from 40p to 52p by summer... i think they have a good chance


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## Dave10 (Feb 24, 2010)

lazy said:


> haha nice! so you want a 30% return in 6 months? Better go speak to Bernie Madoff!!


haha

is that not doable ?

well what sort of profits are people making give

whoever has shares invested in at the minute, give me examples . . .


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## lazy (May 5, 2010)

The average rate of return from normal stock investing is around 7% pa (so 3.5% over 6 months), and that's only probable if you know what your doing, get lucky, and have a good bull run  The normal minimum time to invest would be around 5 years.

If not then you are liable to make very little, or loose some.

If you are a begginer its far better to invest in a cash isa first, then after thats full look into the stock part of it.


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Dave10 said:


> when you say you have looked into them
> 
> where have you done this ?
> 
> ...


It's all subjective mate, this is why the phrase "Do your own research" should be foremost in your mind when investing.

The way Raptor sees the markets may be very different to the way I do, that doesn't mean either one of us is right or wrong, as long as we are both profitable you'd have to say we are both right, it's just that we have different styles of investment.

From what I have read of Raptor's posts it seems (I could be wrong of course - no offense Raptor if I am) that he likes to invest in the stocks that have had a hard time of it lately and are due to recover i.e. RBS and BKIR. I can see complete sense and logic in this approach but it is actually completely different to the approach I take. Stocks such as BKIR and RBS are of relatively low value (under 50p per share - known as penny shares) as such they can lose quite a percentage of their value with a very small movement in the actual monetary value of the share price which is a bit more risk than what I'm prepared to take. Of course investing in these shares can also result in rapid growth also, it's all about risk to reward ratio but lower cap stocks tend to be more volatile and less predictable. It is clear however, that Raptor does his research as he has shown on this thread and has solid, logical reasons to invest.

My approach is IMO less risky but with less chance of rapid growth but a good chance of steady growth over a period of several weeks or months. I invest in well established stocks with a relatively high/moderate value and almost always on the main market, not the AIM market. They are either in a steady uptrend or making new highs (or lows if shorting). I have found this to be a safe and stress free approach to building my portfolio.

To answer your questions, these two websites are good for researching shares:

www.advfn.com

www.iii.co.uk

I would very strongly recommend against getting involved with any stocks and shares forums as they are absolutely riddled with people deliberatley starting rumours and talking BS about shares in order to influence the forum members to invest or sell in order to favourably affect the investments they have made. It's that phrase again - Do your own research. You should ALWAYS understand why you have invested your hard earned money into something and not just done it because of a tip.

I wouldn't personally touch MXP and AST simply because they are on the AIM market, and having looked at the MXP chart it is an absolute disaster zone. I'm certain if I looked deeper I would probably find 5 times as many reasons to steer clear than to put any money into them.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

Thats not true lazy you can match the market quite easily by investing in a tracker fund that will follow the market - sitting in cash at the moment I do not agree with, why would you? so that inflation can eat it all?


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

The Raptor said:


> Lets see if RBS get from 40p to 52p by summer... i think they have a good chance


I've just had a look at the RBS chart, there is certainly potential there given where it's been in the past. Are you already in on this one Raptor, if so at what price?

Although it's much lower cap that what I'd usually invest in it is still a main market share which interests me. I'll keep an eye on it to potentially diversify the portfolio as I currently have no holds in the banking sector. My buy in would be around the 43.15p mark.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

@ Rich yeah your right that im in to my penny stocks, choosing volatility can end up with quick losses but also quick profits, im prepared to take these risks at the moment but if i was putting serious money on something eg 10k + i'd be a bit more hesitant, and Dave10 as he says 'DYOR' listening to others can be helpful but there are lots with anterior motives, when i sold my RBS spread the other week it was because someone helped me decide, then 10 mins later we seen a big spike what lasted for 5 days... make a plan, and stick to it

Good luck, what trading firm did you go for?


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

And also you average rate of return is over what length? you can pull all different figures for ave. return over 5, 10, 15, 20 etc etc what you have stated as fact is in fact not


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> I've just had a look at the RBS chart, there is certainly potential there given where it's been in the past. Are you already in on this one Raptor, if so at what price?
> 
> Although it's much lower cap that what I'd usually invest in it is still a main market share which interests me. I'll keep an eye on it to potentially diversify the portfolio as I currently have no holds in the banking sector. My buy in would be around the 43.15p mark.


Im still at a loss with this last BKIR trade (this weeks one) last week went well but this week has been slow and i only trade with profits now, and got alot in BKIR... until they get to about 47 i'll be staying there as i believe they will get there quite soon, and it may be a good time to switch horse before the rumoured rights issue, but not sure what im going to do yet... i could still be in trouble with BKIR, if i loose on them then RBS are my next choice for a medium - long term pun.. i can see 50-60p next year.

EDIT: Although im confident BKIR will do well, tomorrow and friday are big news days for it


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

On BKIR, just had a closer look - if I were to get involved with this then I'd be looking for 0.51+ before I was confident it would be continuing in the right direction. I think with a stock like this I'd stray from my usual buy and hold strategy and adopt a swing trading approach taking profits quite regularly after each rise.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Whats the best company to use if i plan on buying maybe 3-5 shares over the period of a year with a value of say £2-3k total? the rest of the time the accout will be inactive so not wanting to pay large monthly fees?


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Whats the best company to use if i plan on buying maybe 3-5 shares over the period of a year with a value of say £2-3k total? the rest of the time the accout will be inactive so not wanting to pay large monthly fees?


In terms of brokers I'd say Selftrade or you could open a spread betting account only IF you've fully researched them and understand the risks and how to use them properly (which isn't that hard TBH)



lee_ said:


> Here's an interesting question, how are people doing their research? I read the words strong and good but where do they come from? Or is this a belief rather than research because nearly eveything out there is pure rumour or liars pumping their own stock to sell it, *Aim is absolutely rife for this.*
> 
> I know when I was a broker it was just about impossible to review a major banks position given the complexity of the organisation to the point where even senior bank staff have very little idea on the position.


This is exactly why I avoid AIM stocks.

I use ADVFN for my research as well as the companies' own websites. I also find that the business sections of the broadsheets can be quite useful. I NEVER use forums or 'tips' sites/columns.

Investor's Chronicle and Shares Magazine are weekly publications that I usually read but again, I do not invest directly as a result of things I have read in these, they can just sometimes point me in the right direction to do further research.

I agree with what you say about researching the banks position, they are notoriously difficult to establish a clear opinion of, most other sectors are not like this however.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Whats the best company to use if i plan on buying maybe 3-5 shares over the period of a year with a value of say £2-3k total? the rest of the time the accout will be inactive so not wanting to pay large monthly fees?


Rich probably gave you the best option with Selftrade... if you sign now you will pay NO admin fees until july / aug next year....

Even then its just £35 for the annum, and £12.50 per trade + 0.5% government tax fee


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

lee_ you're right that there is no true way to know whats going to happen with any banks, but my theory is pretty basic and effective..... most the banks are coming out of a recession right now, many are also undervalued massively... for example RBS have done very well over the last 2 years in recovering from the mess that they were in, they will keep declaring progress. Now the share price seems to have hovered for the last few years, but it will follow.

As warren buffet says a share price will always follow suit if a company is progressing


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok i just lost 22 hundred... i said i would keep you all up to date with my profits and losses.... After yet more 'market manipulation' Bank Of Ireland has continued to plummet, had i of stayed out when i sold last week i would of been better off, but greed and a little optimism made me buy back in.... on a plus this is around half the profit i have had from this bank in the past few weeks, so as a whole BKIR has been a success for me, and as they say you win some, you loose some.


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## Majordomo (Oct 20, 2009)

Ouch.


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Just the nature of trading stocks and shares as I'm sure you're aware, the main point here is that your trading with this stock was profitable overall and therefore successful.

What was your overall gain in the end?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> Just the nature of trading stocks and shares as I'm sure you're aware, the main point here is that your trading with this stock was profitable overall and therefore successful.
> 
> What was your overall gain in the end?


2200 down from 4000 from last week so 1800 up on BKIR... it was unheard of drop, and totally down to market manipulators....

Low and behold there was millions of € worth bought when it hit rock bottom today, probably by associates of the manipulators themselves,

Was a close shave but i just missed out today, its will go back up now... its the only way it can go, i mean look at NYSE IRE!

The americans have much more faith than us in Bank Of Ireland, i want it to go back up as i have some friends who have big money in it


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

Yes looking at the chart I'm sure it will rise again over the coming weeks. I stick by my hypothetical 0.51+ entry level though, I wouldn't buy in below that price now personally.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> Yes looking at the chart I'm sure it will rise again over the coming weeks. I stick by my hypothetical 0.51+ entry level though, I wouldn't buy in below that price now personally.


Yeah im gonna leave BKIR for now... i had a good run from 0.32 to 0.47 in a matter of days, and i have bought a wicked watch with some of the profits...

That will help take away some of the pain for being greedy and buying back in @ 0.45 :laugh:


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

I know how tempting it can me mate. I learnt the hard way in my early trading days.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> I know how tempting it can me mate. I learnt the hard way in my early trading days.


Do you know what though i was gonna top it up with another 2 points which would of cost me over 500 and im glad i didn't as its passed it, people are going MAD who have the shares lol... although at 4:30 BKIR are announcing how much they will of made from a debt swap, if its good they will need to raise less from selling other assets, meaning big spike.. if not then they are doomed for a bit


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## BB_999 (Feb 20, 2006)

It'll be interesting to see the reaction to that.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Rich-B said:


> It'll be interesting to see the reaction to that.


News was released at 4:00 instead of 4:30 its low was 31.2 it was good news so some big buys have just happened and its on the way up

But tbh people are going to be selling off next week for xmas close, its not going to help SP

Tbh now its so low i'd jump in with a 10 point stop if i were you im out for now as i need to afford xmas ha


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Whats ur trading plans for 2011 then Raptor?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Whats ur trading plans for 2011 then Raptor?


Have lost a substantial amount of money mate, not in shares.. but its not too good

Will take me a few months to raise capital to be funding my life and actively investing again bud, will keep you all posted


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok so some asked what im up to at the moment RE trading, well i am looking at all markets at the moment, especially Forex... currently there is a lot going on with the pair EUR/USD... it was at an all time high and you can simply see by this chart that 'if it follows the last 2 peaks' then it is ready to crash, anyone who knows about Elliot Wave Theory will know what i mean, its never verbatim but this looked like it was going to drop, it did last week and me and some contacts cashed in on the drop by shorting the markets, there is a possibility it may crash by a few 1000 points but that is not going to happen right away, there has been a consolidation where its bounced back up, so im long in there for a temp trade and going to wait for around 14700 as i expect it may retrace to there before the big crash, either way there is going to be a crash so keep an eye on EUR/USD, here's a long term chart to show how it looks to be peaking, i can't give an exact entry point as i have not seen it yet, but for now im long and will then short when the correction has finished.

http://oi56.tinypic.com/2dhgs4l.jpg

What are you other traders getting up to? Did anyone get in on the Silver crash? I missed the fecker


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## Keen (Apr 29, 2010)

Raptor said:


> Lets see if RBS get from 40p to 52p by summer... i think they have a good chance


What makes you so confident in RBS?

I've actually though about punting a grand on RBS since the shares are so low at the moment and leaving it for a couple of years to see if they recover.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Keen said:


> What makes you so confident in RBS?
> 
> I've actually though about punting a grand on RBS since the shares are so low at the moment and leaving it for a couple of years to see if they recover.


If you had bought precisely when i said at 40p you could of sold them on february the 18th for just shy of 50p

If you have a grand to spare, chuck it in as its back down to £0.41,7 today, however if you want better returns (with more risk)

Buy Bank Of Ireland (BKIR) @ €0.23,6 and wait for profit, this is up and down like a yoyo and very low now


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## Keen (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks for the BKIR tip, will have to do some research into them first though.

Might split the grand 50/50 RBS/BKIR.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

I've skim read a few of these pages, but it's late and once some terminology I don't understand is used I'm lost TBH.

Is there any kind of software you can use to 'practice' with against real market variations? i.e. so you could 'pretend buy and sell' and see what you make or lose?


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## Keen (Apr 29, 2010)

ba baracuss said:


> I've skim read a few of these pages, but it's late and once some terminology I don't understand is used I'm lost TBH.
> 
> *Is there any kind of software you can use to 'practice' with against real market variations?* i.e. so you could 'pretend buy and sell' and see what you make or lose?


Forex


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

ba baracuss said:


> I've skim read a few of these pages, but it's late and once some terminology I don't understand is used I'm lost TBH.
> 
> Is there any kind of software you can use to 'practice' with against real market variations? i.e. so you could 'pretend buy and sell' and see what you make or lose?


Yes just use a demo account, all brokers have them buddy, doesn't have to be Forex


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Thanks gents. There is a thread on this stuff on another forum I go on. The dude giving the tips does it for a living and trades on AIM and his thread also gave me a headache 

Are you boys pro's or just part-timers? A friend of a friend is super sh1t hot - last I heard he was some kind of director or something somewhere prestigious.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

ba baracuss said:


> Thanks gents. There is a thread on this stuff on another forum I go on. The dude giving the tips does it for a living and trades on AIM and his thread also gave me a headache
> 
> Are you boys pro's or just part-timers? A friend of a friend is super sh1t hot - last I heard he was some kind of director or something somewhere prestigious.


Im far from a Pro, but hope to go full time one day... its an exciting prospect for me but not something to rush in to


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2008)

Thought i would bring this old thread up to see how all the guys are doing? Anyone still trading shares? Noticed the BKIR are now down to 10p


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

I've got a grand to play with, any tips guys?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Thought i would bring this old thread up to see how all the guys are doing? Anyone still trading shares? Noticed the BKIR are now down to 10p


Yeah they are a good buy now at 10 cent but also the irish markets are clouded with uncertainty so risky


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Afghan said:


> I've got a grand to play with, any tips guys?


You'd be much safer playing with a demo account for a year or two and then giving the grand to a trader and agreeing a fixed % per annum

And then when you are ready, trading money yourself


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Currently using a practice site and making ~ 15k per day using a 200k investment on LYG ... and a similar investment with GSK is seeing 5k per day increase.

Just a quick question Raptor, how much do these practice sites reflect the true reality of investing?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Lloyd DA said:


> Currently using a practice site and making ~ 15k per day using a 200k investment on LYG ... and a similar investment with GSK is seeing 5k per day increase.
> 
> Just a quick question Raptor, how much do these practice sites reflect the true reality of investing?


When you say a practise site do you mean Demo account?

If its demo and you make say £1000 then its the same as real life, but remember if you had 100k you wouldn't

be risking potentially 50k losses in a day, so its best to drop the demo to 2 - 10k and then trade like its yours

If not then its not learning, its just like playing a game


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Raptor said:


> When you say a practise site do you mean Demo account?
> 
> If its demo and you make say £1000 then its the same as real life, but remember if you had 100k you wouldn't
> 
> ...


Thanks, any particular sites you recommend?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Lloyd DA said:


> Thanks, any particular sites you recommend?


I don't know what you are already using so not sure what to recommend, Capital Spreads have demo that doesn't expire

However they put the charts 15mins behind on demo, but if you are not chart reading it makes no difference

Personally chart reading is my edge so when i ran their demo i had to use someone elses charts


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