# GHRP6 WITH SLIN?



## Trenzyme (May 4, 2008)

this will be my first time with slin an was thinking of doing 5ius (probs start at 2) 3x ed on training days 3 x ew with my ghrp6, since slin and hgh work well together how would to time youre shots , i was thinking

am shot. 125mcg ghrp6.. 45 min later 6 weatabix 2 pints skim milk, 60g whey shake with water then 5ius slin straight after then mass shake with 70 carbs 50g protien an hour later.

afternoon , 125mcg ghrp6 pre workout train for 60-90mins have a mass shake (as above) around the 45 min mark then pwo the 5 ius slin staright after then go home for fish rice and vegie type meal

pm 125mcg ghrp6 8 pm then 45min later low fat pasta bake with time of tuna 5ius of slin stright after then a 4-6 weatabix with skim milk and 60 proien shake and hour later

im on cycle.. 1 g prochem tri trest and 750mg pc eq ew

theres several other shakes and meals inbetween what ive wrote but try to leave it an good hour before i inject the ghrp6, goal are lean(ish) bulk

hope some one can make sense of this and give me some advise cheers


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

1. you need to take mod GRF (1-29) along with your GHRP-6 (i.e you need to take BOTH GHRH and a GHRP to get the optimum benefit- you are wasting your efforts on taking one of these only).

2. Take the peps at 1mcg/kg bodyweight as the saturation dose. take your peps first. Wait 30mins, take your 'slin, 10-15mins after your 'slin (novorapid or humalog) take your whey shake with 50g whey, and 5g SIMPLE CARBS per iu of 'slin (assuming you will be having wheetbix after the shake, otherwise take 10g of simple carbs in your shake). Ideally you do 10g of (simple) carbs per iu of 'slin; an hour later 5g of complex carbs per iu (also with protein).

3. don't bother with 2iu 'slin- you can do 3iu without carbs at all (well maybe not in the morning, but certainly during the day you could); its a waste of your insulin sensitivity. Do 7-10iu; otherwise you will wonder why you did it...

4. you are fundamentally and dangerously unaware (see your afternoon-pwo plan) that you need your simple carbs 10-15mins after your 'slin shot.

5. peps need 30mins to release the GH- the resulting GH peak is the equivalent of 7.5iu of GH, but lasts only about 2 hours. you want your 'slin active in this window.


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## Trenzyme (May 4, 2008)

cheers for input mate, ive talked to a few folk who have used ghrp6 alone with good results and its deffo working on me sleep is better hunger is just stupid and i do have an overall sense of well being ,but if it can be improved without damaging anything im all ears mate its just ive heard that GRF can cause a hgh bleed that can damaging to the pituraty gland but not sure how much truths behind this as i havnt read much into it myself yet so staying clear untill i know whats what.. id be gratfull if you have and info on the matter?..

my thinking in the afternoon pwo plan with me having 70g simple carbs 30 mins before slin then a full clean meal with a good 50+ complex carbs 45-60 mins after would be ok but dont want to take any chances

edit.. it could be cjc that cause a hgh bleed, either way some input on the matter would be much appriciated


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Trenzyme said:


> cheers for input mate, ive talked to a few folk who have used ghrp6 alone with good results and its deffo working on me sleep is better hunger is just stupid and i do have an overall sense of well being ,but if it can be improved without damaging anything im all ears mate its just ive heard that GRF can cause a hgh bleed that can damaging to the pituraty gland but not sure how much truths behind this as i havnt read much into it myself yet so staying clear untill i know whats what.. id be gratfull if you have and info on the matter?..
> 
> my thinking in the afternoon pwo plan with me having 70g simple carbs 30 mins before slin then a full clean meal with a good 50+ complex carbs 45-60 mins after would be ok but dont want to take any chances bad move- take the carbs 10-15mins after. Have you ever used 'slin before? I think not. Also buy yourself a BG monitor and use it.. search for a thread on 'slin use here; you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how/when to take in carbs with exogenous insulin
> 
> edit.. it could be cjc that cause a hgh bleed, either way some input on the matter would be much appriciated


the "bleed" you're referring to is only caused by CJC-1295 (also known as mod grf (1-29) with DAC); what you need to use is mod grf (1-29) WITHOUT DAC.

now, keep in mind that GHRP-2/6/ipamorelin are Growth Hormone Secretagogues (GHS):

A single dose of a GHS in vivo brings about an immediate down-regulation of responsiveness to subsequent administration. This desensitization appears to abate and sensitivity fully restored within a few hours.

However continual infusion of large amounts of GHS brings about a substantial initial release of GH, followed, after several hours, by long-term down-regulation of GH secretion.

The only published comparison of the results of differing modes of GHS delivery (twice daily injections vs. continuous infusion) in vivo demonstrated a dramatic dissipation of anabolism following infusions of high-dose GHS. However a pronounced anabolic effect was maintained with the same dose of GHS administered by intermittent injection.

From the results of this study graphed out above it is evident that with GHSs the optimal dosing pattern is administration by injection with sufficient intervals between dosing so as to maintain sensitivity.

The effectiveness is greatly diminished, perhaps to the point of having no benefit if GHSs duration of action becomes prolonged and sustained. GHSs unlike GHRH are best used to amplify those very import GH pulses while GHRH is effective at raising the total level of GH.

If we understand desensitization than we will easily understand why the oral GHS, MK-0677 in recent studies failed to demonstrate a "maintained acceleration of statural growth in children with GH-deficiency". MK-0677 was developed to be a long lasting orally active analogue of GHRP-6. MK-0677 is to GHRP-6 what CJC-1295 is to GHRH (i.e. long-lasting).

The problem is that while long-lasting analogues of GHRH do not result in desensitization and pronounced down-regulation, long-lasting analogues of GHRP-6 do desensitize and consequently lose effectiveness.

CJC-1295 brings about persistent and chronically elevated levels of GH while GHRP-6 if injected a couple of times a day amplifies the very important GH pulses. The two compounds greatly compliment each other. In the previous article on GHRH & CJC-1295 we discussed the importance of pulsation which has been shown to be necessary for growth. The other important component of anabolism is chronic GH elevation.

Continuously elevated levels of GH increase IGF-I levels more than intermittent increases in GH. The intermittent nature of GH release brought on by GHSs' mode of action does create a rise in IGF-I levels but the anabolic effect may not be pronounced.

It has been repeatedly demonstrated and is now recognized that in children the growth response to injections of IGF-I is far less than the growth response to injections of GH. This is in accordance with most animal studies, which demonstrate that treatment with IGF-I does "not produce the full anabolic and growth-promoting effects of GH treatment".

Protocols that elevate GH while maintaining and amplifying the pulses seem to be effective at producing anabolism. The combination of CJC-1295 and GHRP-6 do just that.

GHRH (and analogs) + GHSs = a lot of synergistic growth hormone release

There is not a lot of deviation in the published studies on the effect of these peptides and the saturation dose needed to bring about the effect in normal people (who often act as a control group).

We need only to examine the results of the normal test subjects from three oft-cited studies that established the relevant protocol.

In the first study "Inhibition of growth hormone release after the combined administration of GHRH and GHRP-6 in patients with Cushing's syndrome", Alfonso Leal-Cerro..., Clinical Endocrinology 1994, 41 (5) , 649-654, three different peptide/peptide combinations were used.

GHRH was administered alone at 100mcg. This resulted in area under the curve (AUC) measured for 120 minutes of GH secretion of 1420 ± 330.

GHRP-6 was administered alone at 100mcg. This resulted in area under the curve (AUC) measured for 120 minutes of GH secretion of 2278 ± 290.

GHRH plus GHRP-6 was administered together at 100mcg each. This resulted in area under the curve (AUC) measured for 120 minutes of GH secretion of 7332 ± 592.

As a single dose these results show that GHRP-6 is about twice as effective as GHRH.

The synergy between GHRH & GHRP-6 is clearly evident as co-administration resulted in twice the benefit of the additive values of single doses of the two peptides.

The second study is the one that established the saturation dose for these peptides often used in other studies. "Growth hormone (GH)-releasing peptide stimulates GH release in normal men and acts synergistically with GH-releasing hormone ", CY Bowers..., J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Apr 1990; 70: 975-982.

In that study GHRH at a dose of 1.0 microgram/kg was administered alone and then together with various doses of GHRP-6 (0.1, 0.3, and 1.0 microgram/kg). They found that the submaximal dosages of 0.1 and 0.3 microgram/kg GHRP-6 plus 1 microgram/kg GHRH did have the effect of stimulating GH release synergistically.

However the larger dose of 1 mcg/kg of GHRP-6 was found to be the saturation dose when used in combination w/ 1 mcg/kg of GHRH.

It is also noteworthy that serum prolactin and cortisol levels rose about 2-fold above base levels only at the 1 microgram/kg dose of GHRP-6 and not at the submaximal dosages.

The final study, "Preserved Growth Hormone (GH) Secretion in Aged and Very Old Subjects after Testing with the Combined Stimulus GH-Releasing Hormone plus GH-Releasing Hexapeptide-6", Micic D..., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998 Jul;83(7):2569-72 is fascinating for several reasons.

By reference to citation it is noted that "GHRH plus GHRP-6 (both at saturating dose) is nowadays considered the most potent stimulus of GH secretion in man being able to restore the GH secretion in states associated with chronic blockade of somatotroph activity (as in obesity)...it elicits a near-normal GH discharge in obesity, in patients with hypothyroidism and in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus."

This particular study examined the effects of combined administration of GHRH, immediately followed by GHRP-6 in a group of very old subjects (age higher than 75 yr), as compared with both normal adults (less than 40 yr) and aged subjects (age 46-65 yr). The dosing levels used were 90mcg of GHRH followed by 1mcg/kg of GHRP-6.

All the subjects had a positive GH secretory response to the combined administration with no differences observed between men and women. However the group comprising the very old had the highest level of GH release followed by the group comprising the aged subjects with the "less than 40 yr group" experiencing a substantial rise but not as high as the other two groups.

The study concluded that the lack of side-effects & safety of the protocol and the discovered lack of age-related decline in the "GHRH-GHRP-6-mediated GH release opens the possibility of using it as a therapeutical tool to revert some deleterious manifestations of aging in man."

In CONCLUSION,

Growth Hormone (GH) is regulated by a trinity composed of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH), Growth Hormone Secretagogues (GHS) and Somatostatin. GHRH and GHSs individually have a positive impact on GH secretion. These two compounds operate through distinct modes of action which complement each other and when administered together result in synergistic GH secretion.

Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides (GHRPs), a subclass of GHSs are effective across all age groups in amplifying GH pulses. Pulsation is a necessary component of growth generation in mammals. GHRH when co-administered with GHRPs has the effect of further increasing the amplitude and "area under the curve" of a GH pulse. The result is a GH pulse many multiples more effective then that achieved by an unaided GH pulse.

In addition to pulsation, overall growth is better accomplished when total levels of GH are elevated without hindering pulsation. Elevated GH levels appear to be a necessary component of growth generation as well. One of the reasons this is so appears to be that chronically elevated GH levels result in more pronounced sustained levels of IGF-1 then that achieved through intermittent GH elevations.

Persistent levels of GHRH do not result in desensitization. Elevated levels of GHRH result in sustained GH release. A long-lasting version of GHRH, CJC-1295 has demonstrated the ability to sustain elevated GH levels in humans.

GHRP-6 is perhaps the most well studied of all GHSs. In physiological doses there are virtually no side effects. It has been demonstrated to be effective for all age groups.

Combined administration of CJC-1295 and GHRP-6 is a very effective, well studied method of increasing the total amount of GH secreted within the body. By adjusting the dosing of these compounds and accounting for such factors as age one may choose to achieve a "youthful" restoration, an above normal elevation or a substantially above normal elevation of both GH levels and pulsatile release.

most used references:

32. Smith RG, Pong SS, Hickey Get al. Modulation of pulsatile GH release through a novel receptor in hypothalamus and pituitary gland. Rec Prog Horm Res 1996; 51: 261-286.

33. McDowell KS, Elias KA, Stanley MS et al Growth-hormone secretagogues - characterization, efficacy, and minimal bioactive conformation. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1995; 92: 11165-11169.

34. Howard AD, Feighner SD, Cully DF et al. A receptor in pituitary and hypothalamus that functions in growth hormone release. Science 1996; 273: 974-977.

35. Pong SS, Chaung LYE Dean DC, Nargund RP, Patchett AA, Smith RG. Identification of a new G-proteinqinked receptor for growth-hormone secretagogues. MoI Endocrinol 1996; 10: 57-61.

36. Clark RG, Robinson ICAE Up and down the growth hormone cascade. Cytokine Growth Factor Rev 1996; 7: 65-80.

this is a cut 'n paste from another board.

although this article relates to using cjc-1295; it is better for multiple daily dosing to use mod GRF (1-29) without DAC (remember this is a GHRH)

*You really need to use a GHRP & GHRH together.*


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## Trenzyme (May 4, 2008)

good read that mate cheers, il be getting some ghrh asap

yes its going to my first slin run mate, i understand the basics of slin use , pwo 10g simple carbs per iu with protien bcaa and creatine after shot then the same gain and hour later , i though it should be 10g carbs per iu an hour later?

thanks for the input mate i know what im doing with aas but still learning about peps


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Trenzyme said:


> good read that mate cheers, il be getting some ghrh asap
> 
> yes its going to my first slin run mate, i understand the basics of slin use , pwo 10g simple carbs per iu with protien bcaa and creatine after shot then the same gain and hour later , i though it should be 10g carbs per iu an hour later?
> 
> thanks for the input mate i know what im doing with aas but still learning about peps


for the 'slin, it doesn't matter if its pwo or not. the safe approach is:

1. 10-15mins after (novorapid or humalog): 50g-60g whey + 10g simple carbs per iu of 'slin

2. 45-60mins after shot: 50g whey, 5g complex carbs per iu.

You could do (in one shake) 50-60g whey + 5g simple carbs +5g complex carbs per iu of 'slin.

use a BG monitor at 30min, 60 and 90 min to check your BG level is not to low.

once you get the hang of it, you can lower the carbs a little- based on how sensitive you are.


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