# Sustanon / Tbol cycle log



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Ok, some of you are aware that I ran my first cycle last year. Cycle stats below :-

Starting weight before Tbol - 81kg

End of cycle weight - 89kg

End of PCT weight - 87.5kg

Weight as of today - 88.8kg

I'm 5' 9" and prob around 15-18% BF (guessing though)

As of today I've started my second cycle (first injectable) of Oregon Sustanon 250 twice a week. So :-

Week 1-12 500mg Sus

Week 1- 4 80mg Tbol ED

PCT will be the following

100/50/50/50 Clomid

20/20/20/20 Nolva

I have HCG on hand but will not be running it through cycle

Typical daily diet is the following, I'll be hitting approx 3500 calories a day.

Meal 1 - Oats with full fat milk mixed with 50gms Maxiraw Isolate protein powder. 3 x 1000mg Fish oil tabs. 1 x Vit D, 1 x Multi vit

Meal 2 - Rice cooked in coconut oil, chicken and small handful of nuts

Meal 3 - As above but with broccoli

Meal 4 - Tuna in small amount of brown pasta. tub of quark mixed with natural yoghurt.

Pre workout - cup of black coffee, 10mg BCAA's

Post workout - 10mg BCAA's 50grams of MaxiRaw Isolate protein, 1 scoop of Cellmass recovery

Meal 5 - salmon, broccoli + brown rice

Meal 6 - 6 whole extra large eggs, 2 x brown wholegrain bread.

Before bed - 3 ZMA caps 4 x Fish oil caps

I wont bore you with my training routine but if anyone is interested in, PM me

I'll update every few days with pics and information on what I'm feeling ect

I'll be testing my BP every week ( I've bought a BP monitor) and will be having bloods done around 2 months after PCT to see how my body has recovered.

This is what I currently look like,

.


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## young-pup (Jan 26, 2009)

looks good. you have a great foundation to start aas on. Cant belive you have only ran 1 tbol cycle. Stick to your diet and routine and you will se some great results. will be following this one.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

I started training around 16 months ago mate after years of trying to get into some sort of routine,

As soon as I started my diet / training programme was good and I always move my training around and mix things in 6 week cycles.

I tend to train 4 times a week and am currently on the following splits

usually do around 3 x 30 min cardio sessions a week + squash once a week.

Chest / triceps /calves

Back / core

Rest

Shoulders / Bi's

Legs

My routines are based around heavy compound movements with some smaller isolation moves thrown in now and again.

I only started training legs around 6 months ago (squatted for the first time last week) so they are lagging behind.

Current best lifts are

Bench press - 160kg 1RM

Deadlifts - 195kg 1RM

Squat (first and only time so far) - 160kg for 6

I'll detail my lifts as I go along


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

young-pup said:


> looks good. you have a great foundation to start aas on. Cant belive you have only ran 1 tbol cycle. Stick to your diet and routine and you will se some great results. will be following this one.


Thanks for the support mate


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

CJones said:


> Squat (first and only time so far) - 160kg for 6


Holy moly, first time and you squat 6 out!

Well, as before, this will be a real interesting thread.

Best of luck buddy! Will be following


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

I had trained legs hard for 6 months though, including heavy hack squats leading to lunges.

Oh, and 3 1/2 plates either side


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Slight soreness to the injection site from last night, mainly when i sit down.

The injection itself went really well and I was amazed how painless it was, I didn't really think about it too much and all in all it took around 3 mins.

I had a chuckle once it was over that I had spent so much time worrying what it was going to be like, only to find it was a piece of p!ss. Being prepared was key

Training Back tonight along with core


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Where did you inject? Quad or Glute? Any PIP from the prop in the Sustanon? I take it you'll be taking the sus all in one injection once per week / 10days?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Small amount of soreness mate. I expected that from the Prop, as you say.

2 injections per week (250mg each). Monday and Thursday

2 x 20mg Tbol tabs in the morning and 2 tabs 12 hrs later (80mg in total)

And I injected in my Glute


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

Sustonon is designed to give a steady blood flow of test over a period of 7/10 days mate.

I would also say your below 14% BF


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

I was considering a Sust first cycle too, and was planning on injecting once per week. Given how it's formulated I don't see much point in 2 x per week injections myself. That is part of the appeal - one injection per week, less hassle, less PIP hopefully.

Be very interested to see how you get on.


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## kev74 (May 29, 2010)

hi c can i ask why ur doing ur sust in 2 jabs a week instead of just 1 weekly jab?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

It seems as though If been ill informed in regards to the twice weekly injections, I should have done some research on it TBH

So you would recommend injecting the the 2ml (so 2 amps) once per week ??

I'm happy to keep to 2 x shots per week, its no hassle and may keep the pip down


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Having thought about it a little, I'll probably keep to 2 x injections per week as I reckon 500mg (2ml) of Sus at one time may be a bloody painful.

Thoughts ??


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## kev74 (May 29, 2010)

id have though doing 1 jab would have been a lot easier just get it out the way then u dont have to worry about it for another week?


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

Yes mate 2ml in one hit. You can do 2ml every 10 days as i think it keeps your test levels steady for that amount of time. The half life is around 21 day tho.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks for the input Kev, have you ever injected 500mg of Sus at once ??


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

s3_abv said:


> Yes mate 2ml in one hit. You can do 2ml every 10 days as i think it keeps your test levels steady for that amount of time. The half life is around 21 day tho.


So really its only a convenience thing ??


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## kev74 (May 29, 2010)

i get a bit pip when doin 2 ml but i normally get it a day after jab i jab in the morning before work say a wed morning but dont get a bit pip till thur nothing that would effect ur training though but everybody has there own way so whatever works for u id say stick with


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah, point taken Kev.

I'll see how I get on.

Appreciate the input


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## kev74 (May 29, 2010)

would be good to hear how u get on


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

CJones said:


> Thanks for the input Kev, have you ever injected 500mg of Sus at once ??


Yes mate. donig the same course as you in 8-10 week time too.

Just come off a bulking course of 600ml test e e/w in one 2ml jab. Its not a convenience thing, pinning twice a week take your test levels up and down due to the short life esters.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

This article seems to indicate that Sus is ideally suited to EOD injections.

I'm not about to start doing that though

http://www.steroid-cycles.com/sustanon-cycle.html


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

^^I've heard / read the above a lot, people probably recommending it down to the prop content.

But I don't see how all those long esters in the sus would lend themselves to EOD injections. The way I think about it is that Sustanon was developed for TRT to keep stable test levels for up to month. Half life being 3 weeks I think a injecting once a week / 10days is fine, but I'll defer to superior knowledge on the topic.


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## Cluk89 (Aug 26, 2009)

you gained 8kg on a Tbol only cycle, thats like 17-18 pounds?

Some people will not gain much more on a Test cycle.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

bayman said:


> ^^I've heard / read the above a lot, people probably recommending it down to the prop content. But I don't so how all those long esters in it would lend itself to EOD injections. The way I think about it is that Sustanon was developed for TRT to keep stable test levels for up to month. Half life being 3 weeks I think a injecting once a week / 10days is fine, but I'll defer to superior knowledge on the topic.


From what I've read the EOD is done due to the Prop and as you say, keeping a constant test level.

The way I see it, other than injecting EOD, there is no way of keeping constant test levels on SUstanon ?



Cluk89 said:


> you gained 8kg on a Tbol only cycle, thats like 17-18 pounds?
> 
> Some people will not gain much more on a Test cycle.


It was a cracking cycle mate, my log is on here if you search it.

My diet was spot on and my gains reflected that.


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## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

Good luck on the cycle mate, I enjoyed the Tbol one.

With regard to your jabs, many will say once a week (forget the EOD stuff) there is an argument that this will work fine, however there is evidence to show that twice weekly injections do in fact keep testosterone levels more stable with less peaks and troughs (spikes and dips) than a once a week jab.

Add to this that a divided Test jab will also reduce the potential for high E2 as the initial peak will be less.

In my book twice weekly jabs are the better option.


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## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

bayman said:


> ^^I've heard / read the above a lot, people probably recommending it down to the prop content.
> 
> But I don't see how all those long esters in the sus would lend themselves to EOD injections. The way I think about it is that Sustanon was developed for TRT to keep stable test levels for up to month. Half life being 3 weeks I think a injecting once a week / 10days is fine, but I'll defer to superior knowledge on the topic.


Organon now actually state their initial recommendations were a 'little' optimistic with regard to stable test levels. The NHS still prescribe Sust 250 either every 3 wks or 2 wks but many patients complain of a dip before this time period and inject far more frequently.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

As always, Appreciate the advice Oldman


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## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

my early cycles i always used sust 250 and i ran it twice a week but that was cos i understood it to keep the test more stable and then i moved on to 3 times a week and these were great cycles....

to be honest i get a bit of a bee sting effect off sust 250 which was nothing to painful but it let you know it was there the next day so would hate to think what 750 or a g at once would feel like....ouch


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## Sharp161 (Jan 31, 2010)

My last cycle was sust i was told its best every 3-4days to utalize all the esters but i opted for 2x a week like you are doing and had great results. Theres so many conflicting opinions but ultimatly all will work.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Mr H said:


> my early cycles i always used sust 250 and i ran it twice a week but that was cos i understood it to keep the test more stable and then i moved on to 3 times a week and these were great cycles....
> 
> to be honest i get a bit of a bee sting effect off sust 250 which was nothing to painful but it let you know it was there the next day so would hate to think what 750 or a g at once would feel like....ouch


Looking forward to legs tomorrow bud. Bodylines again ??


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks Sharp


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## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

:whistling:



CJones said:


> Looking forward to legs tomorrow bud. Bodylines again ??


if i can get out of bed after that deadlifting tonight lol :whistling:


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Keep practising mate, you'll soon be on a par with me :lol:

Anyway, stop spamming my thread. this is a serious log


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## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

:cool2:



CJones said:


> Keep practising mate, you'll soon be on a par with me :lol
> 
> Still waiting on the day you actually lift something heavier then me
> 
> Anyway, stop spamming my thread. this is a serious log


serious???? you??? when????


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cheeky ****er lol


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

One I can't name bud

They are a banned from being mentioned on this site


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

Just a quick question; I get the jist of what PIP is, but what's it stand for?


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

*P*ost *I*njection *P*ain.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

2 days after the first jab and the pip has now preaty much gone.

trained back last night

Managed 160kg for 5 on deadlifts which wasn't bad.

I find my grip is my weak link so I'm going to try using straps to get the weight up, no belt though.

I wont detail all my training but will post up my max lifts on big compound movements to gauge improvement


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## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

CJones said:


> 2 days after the first jab and the pip has now preaty much gone.
> 
> trained back last night
> 
> ...


Good lifts mate.

Do you not wear a belt for any exercises?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Never have mate,

I'm early in to my training career, for want of a better word, and therefore want to strengthen up my lower back as much as possible.


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJones said:


> Never have mate,
> 
> I'm early in to my training career, for want of a better word, and therefore want to strengthen up my lower back as much as possible.


good idea imo its best to only use it when you start pulling crazy numbers because you want to build up strength in the area first


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thats my thinking Brizzle, thanks for stopping by.

I'll show you how the dirty roid boys do it


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

I can't see how a not wearing belt will make you stronger? It's to stop you bending your back, lift through legs keeping the back straight.

My 1 rep max deadlift is 235kg but wouldn't lift that without a belt!


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

You've just answered your own question mate.

A weak lower back will buckle under heavy weight as per your 235kg lift, so the belt helps by supporting it.

I've only just started deadlifting so the last thing I want to do is use a belt to support my back. No belt means my lower back is under strain and therefore is forced to get stronger

I'm certainly no expert though bud.


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJones said:


> Thats my thinking Brizzle, thanks for stopping by.
> 
> I'll show you how the dirty roid boys do it


let me know when you start deadlifting 200 plus 

although you could kill me on squats


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

I've got a max 190kg deadlift with no belt / straps

And that was at 86kg bodyweight

I start doing it more regularly now,

ITS ON :laugh:


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

bizzlewood said:


> let me know when you start deadlifting 200 plus
> 
> although you could kill me on squats


First time I've squatted as well, apart from 8 years ago.

200kg deadlifting natty is fvcking good going mate, especially for a black man :lol: :whistling:


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJones said:


> I've got a max 190kg deadlift with no belt / straps
> 
> And that was at 86kg bodyweight
> 
> ...


not one rep max for reps 

im getting roughly 8 on a really good day



CJones said:


> First time I've squatted as well, apart from 8 years ago.
> 
> 200kg deadlifting natty is fvcking good going mate, especially for a black man :lol: :whistling:


oi


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

8 reps FFS !!!!!

Anyway, back to the sqautting :lol:


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

on another point

can you teach your son to say "watcha talkin bout willis" lol


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

I can mate,

I'll video my 7 and 3 year olds doing it tomorrow, just for you.


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJones said:


> I can mate,
> 
> I'll video my 7 and 3 year olds doing it tomorrow, just for you.


change it to "watcha talkin bout bizzle" then lol


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

I'll sort you out with a multitude of quotes bud


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Not at all mate,

Size and strength gains all the way to 7 weeks. In fact my actual cycle was only going to be 6 weeks but it was going so well I extended it


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Trained Quads and Bi's this morning.

5 sets of squats in total. Last set was 160kg x 7 reps.

I went as low as possible. People talk about ass to ground but I physically cant go that low without opening my legs right up and that worries me to be honest. I still go around 90 degrees.

I would have gone lower but my training partner is only a little guy :whistling:

Checked by blood pressure this morning, and it was perfect.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Ive subscribed to this thread, Im very interested in your progress. You are roughly the same build as me at the moment, same bodyweight as well. You are lifting heavier than me though. Ive also been thinking of running sus 250 so this log should give me some very good insight.

Good luck mate.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks mate,


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## Another Excuse (Sep 22, 2010)

following this log again too, Good luck with it all


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

In a squat you should be sitting between your legs, not folding down ontop of your legs. A vid might help to work out if you're squatting properly or not.


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Excellent log mate, I followed your first one too.

great read for fellow newbies to the dark side ;-)

I use straps on my last set of deads,

Always wear a belt though, been caught without it few times, still lifted same weight but had little fears in the back of my mind bout injuring my back so always try make sure I have it.

Everyones different though.

good luck with rest of cycle, looking forward to reading.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Are you taking the ZMA before bed to help you sleep? Obviously ZMA is (allegedly) a test booster, if your on the juice it wont make any difference will it?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cheers guys.

In regards to squats, I position my feet about the same width as my shoulders. Maybe a little wider.

My range of movement that restricts me. Even standing here with no weight, I cant get that much lower than 90 degrees in my knees


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Just stopped taking the ZMA yesterday mate, yes it helps me with my sleep.

I'll start taking it again with my PCT buddy


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Probably the magnesium in the ZMA that helps with sleep, it's a great relaxant. I find bulk Magnesium Citrate powder (around 2g) before bed works just as well as ZMA for sleep, Myprotein do it cheaply.


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## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

Sweet. Will be following this one closly mate as our cycles basically started around the same time and are quite similar!


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cheers horus,

Second injection tonight.

Trained chest, core and 10 mins high intensity cardio.

I can feel a difference already (day 4 ) it may be a bit of placebo but on my last Tbol cycle I felt something in the first week, plus this time the dose is slightly higher.

I also stood on the scales today and was shocked to see 91.1kg's. thats 2 kg in 5 days since diet / AAS started.

I'm aware that this cant be muscle


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## Mr.GoodKat (May 18, 2010)

I'll follow this with some interest bro.

Good luck


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks mate


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Oh, and I think 91kg is the heaviest I've ever been.


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

il be watching this log with great interest! i think your goin to love your first test cycle! i definately did.. goodluck!


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cheers bud, I'm apprehensive as to what it'll be like.

My big hook up was injecting myself but I've got over that now and am just looking forward to seeing the benefits.


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## chelios (Jun 26, 2010)

Good luck mate. Enjoyed your first log, and got good information from it. I'll be keeping tabs on this!


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks chelios, did you run your cycle in the end mate ?


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

CJones said:


> Cheers bud, I'm apprehensive as to what it'll be like.
> 
> My big hook up was injecting myself but I've got over that now and am just looking forward to seeing the benefits.


That was my main worry but i couldnt believe how painless it was although iv only ever shot in my glutes. Ive been trying to convince my mate to join me on my next cycle but he claims to have a needle phobia lol. Iv never tried sust but when i was on test e at 500mg per week by week 4ish i felt like a complete animal in the gym. Looking forward to the before and after pic comparison!


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

Cjones are you gona do much cardio through this cycle?

Like already said i'm dong the same t-bol/sustin around 6-8 week, and i'm going to be doing cardio 3-4 times a week. so would just like to know.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

s3 Nothing major mate,

around 3 x 15 min sessions with 1 game of squash a week.

Cheers Deep, I definitely feel something already. Feeling thicker which I know is ridiculous after 4/5 days, that said I have gained 2 kg which is prob water


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## cellmore (Aug 26, 2008)

CJones said:


> s3 Nothing major mate,
> 
> around 3 x 15 min sessions with 1 game of squash a week.
> 
> Cheers Deep, I definitely feel something already. Feeling thicker which I know is ridiculous after 4/5 days, that said I have gained 2 kg which is prob water


following your log with interest mate - let us know when the sus kicks in.


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

Cheers mate.

You looking to bulk up a little or cut? Or just an allround physique...


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Bulk mate, whilst keeping bodyfat low

Cheers Cellmore


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## jimmy liverpool (Dec 15, 2010)

interesting reading man.....u had a good start on ya matey


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Second jab last night.

This time I injected slowly, as apposed to firing it in like last time, and I'm PIP free this morning.

BP was 130 / 79


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Enjoy the cycle Cj


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks Bud


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## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

CJones said:


> Cheers bud, I'm apprehensive as to what it'll be like.
> 
> My big hook up was injecting myself but I've got over that now and am just looking forward to seeing the benefits.


Same here CJ, still haven't quite got over feeling apprehensive yet....hope second injection goes better than first. Gonna pin that bad boy up either tomorrow or thursday. How are those T-bols workin' out as a kick start? Feeling super dooper pumped yet boyo?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Feeling something mate, could be placebo !

Rest day today, Back and hamstrings tomorrow


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Wide arm pull up 3 sets of 12 only bodyweight.

close grip rows (Oly bar in a corner of room) 1 warm up set and then 2 sets with 6 plates for 6 reps

Weight is 91.8kg

3rd injection tonight


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

No liver supps and no pumps, apart from the good ones.

I've just injected and had a bleeder  .

As soon as I injected the needle, I knew I had hit a vain as I felt a very slight dull ache. I aspirated as usual and there was nothing so went ahead with the injection.

Withdrew the needle and a spurt of blood came out, no big deal. It stopped after a second or so and I popped a plaster one and massaged the area.


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## cellmore (Aug 26, 2008)

CJones said:


> No liver supps and no pumps, apart from the good ones.
> 
> I've just injected and had a bleeder  .
> 
> ...


That happens every so often. You must have nicked a vain on the way in. Good thing you are so clued up mate and done all your research so youre not fazed with these things.

Have you finished training for today then?


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Be interesting to see if you have any pip in the next few days due to you having a bleeder and describing the dull ache. How have your other injections gone? pip free?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Pretty much pip free mate, slight tingle the day after but nothing major.

Cell. yes mate hour blast on back and legs. I'm shattered now 

Trying Bobylines gym again tomorrow. Big shoulder and tricep workout.

Hows training going for you ??


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

No pip today from yesterdays bloody injection


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

CJones said:


> No pip today from yesterdays bloody injection


What size pins you using mate,

I used blue 23g for quads,

ran out and used a green 21g an i bled after taking needle out (aspirated beforehand and was fine)

Went back to blue 23g and no probs after that.

Glad everythings going well for you,


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah blue tops bud,

Shoulders tonight and there is definitely an improvement in strength.

seated military press with small oly bar, last set was 90kg x 6 reps.


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## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

yep agreed your defo getting stronger.....good shoulder and trap workout that was tonight!!!!


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

CJones said:


> No pip today from yesterdays bloody injection


Thats good to hear. How are you feeling besides the increase in strength. Any niggles or is all ok?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

All is good thanks mate,

My appetite is monstrous, training is starting to step up a gear and my weight is going up.

Blood pressure is fine, no uncomfortable pumps.

Early days yet though, I document any sides if I encounter them.

I'm not training now til sunday evening, and am going to treat myself to a nice meal tonight at a restaurant


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

How's it going CJ?

By the way, what sites are you using to inject, will you use other sites?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Fairly bad weekend in regards to diet. protein intake was still high but carbs were way too high.

Had a weekend in Bath with the wife and friends so I had a few beers also.

Just trained Chest and Tri's, cracking session and the Tbol has definitely kicked in. The first thing I notice from Tbol is an increase in my strength,

Last set of bench press was 150kg for 6 reps (inc 2/3 with slight assistance)

only had 40kg DB's to use for DB press and they we're ridiculously easy so we cracked out 3 sets of 12reps with only 10/15 secs rest inbetween sets. felt good and the last set was a struggle.

Weight is now 94.8kg but I put a lot of this down to the high carb weekend, so maybe a little water retention.

I certainly feel bigger, even only after 10 days which doesn't seem right ???? maybe a little placebo.

Ausername - currently using glutes but I'll probably use quads at some stage also.


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

CJones said:


> Had a weekend in Bath with the wife and friends so I had a few beers also.


Where are you from? I actually live in Bath, not a bad place. Usually pretty heaving in town tbh.


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Saltash (just over the Tamar bridge)

Bath's a cracking place mate, really enjoyed it


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

Yeah, the new Southgate place is looking nice. Bus station looks like a climbing frame, though.

Saltash near plymouth? quite a distance! You stay anywhere nice in bath?

When I was down in plymouth I stayed in a holiday inn/travelodge. worst nights of my life as the hotel was ONTOP of a sodding nightclub! (down there due to business not pleasure :sad


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

small B&B mate but a nice place still.

Had a meal in a place called Aqua, and that was lovely.

Biceps are just over 17 inches now (random bit of info  )


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## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

Nice, did you measure before you started this cycle? Do you measure normally, every fortnight or something?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Not really mate, they were 16.5" 2 months ago


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

3rd injection today,

I drew some blood when I aspirated on the left glute, i probably nicked a blood vessel on the way through and because I'm still a little nervous, The needle was moving in and out a little when I was trying to aspirate. I think I probably pulled the needle out of the muscle and picked up some of the blood above.

Didn't want to risk it though so I aborted that injection, cleaned the area with an alcohol wipe again, changed the needle and then dropped down 20mm.

This time the injection was perfect, hardly any blood on withdraw as well.

next time I'm going to try quads as the glutes are a little tricky for me. Aspirating is a right tvvat in the glute and I usually start to get cramp when trying to do so.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Forgot to mention one thing about my second injection.

Although there was no pip I did have a perfect circular bruise around the injection site a day or 2 later, I only noticed when I went into the showers @ my gym.

There was loads of guys in the changing rooms and I may as well have had a caption tattoo'ed under it saying "Steriods were here."


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Biceps and calfs today,

Weight was 93kg (dropped 1.5kg overnight) so the increase in weight yesterday was the MAHOOSIVE intake of carbs over the weekend.

I hate training Bi's and usually struggle to get 'up' for them.

Today however, I was chomping at the bit to get started. Must be the gear as I'd normally just go through the motions on them, bad I know.

Playing squash tonight so it'll interesting to see if my CV has changed at all since starting the cycle


----------



## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Just looking at you opening post and am wondering why you decided not to run the HCG. From what I understand your PTC would be a lot easier if you kept the old fellas in as good a condition as possible. Whats your reasoning for not running it?


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Laziness if I'm honest mate.

1 more thing to jab in an already hectic lifestyle.

A terrible excuse I know but its the truth :whistling:

If I shut down hard, I've got nobody to blame but myself. However if I recover okay, I know I don't really need it in the future (if my cycles are similar)


----------



## thefrog (Dec 5, 2010)

You look lower than 15% bf mate, around 12% if not a bit lower


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cheers mate, I've put on some bodyfat since the start of the cycle. Perhaps too many calories !! I'll see how I get on.

I'll post some pics at the end of this week for comparison


----------



## Mr.GoodKat (May 18, 2010)

CJones said:


> There was loads of guys in the changing rooms and I may as well have had a caption tattoo'ed under it saying "Steriods were here."


PMSL


----------



## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

CJones said:


> Laziness if I'm honest mate.
> 
> 1 more thing to jab in an already hectic lifestyle.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, its your party:thumbup1: I can understand you not wanting to add another drug into the equation to see how your body reacts, I just hope you dont have recovery problems after puttng all the hard work and money into it.


----------



## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

ANGLIK said:


> Fair enough, its your party:thumbup1: I can understand you not wanting to add another drug into the equation to see how your body reacts, I just hope you dont have recovery problems after puttng all the hard work and money into it.


Hcg really that essential?


----------



## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

ausername said:


> Hcg really that essential?


IMO yes. Its one of the best compounds to keep your balls up and running throughout the cycle which in turn will make recovery faster and more successful. More gains will be kept. Have a read up on it, theres plenty of info on here.


----------



## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

CJones said:


> Forgot to mention one thing about my second injection.
> 
> Although there was no pip I did have a perfect circular bruise around the injection site a day or 2 later, I only noticed when I went into the showers @ my gym.
> 
> There was loads of guys in the changing rooms and I may as well have had a caption tattoo'ed under it saying "Steriods were here."


Pi55ed myself at this one mate!!! - Sorry to hear you're having some problems with the injecting, guess I've been lucky thus far with both of my first 2 in the old glutes (apart from nearly blacking out after first one)- No blood or anything as of yet....still a bit of fear though!

You gonna put up any progress pics soon mate? Should be putting a few up soon myself as I've just finished the 2 week mark with my course. Starting to look a bit fuller already, Dbol appears to be working as a decent kick start - Upped the dose to 20mg ED which seems to be my sweet spot.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

ANGLIK said:


> IMO yes. Its one of the best compounds to keep your balls up and running throughout the cycle which in turn will make recovery faster and more successful. More gains will be kept. Have a read up on it, theres plenty of info on here.


Some say PCT is essential but out of all the guys I know who run gear, prob around 20, only a few of them run it. They lose a little size when off but soon regain when back on cycle. I've got HCG to hand, which seems even more ridiculous not to run it  If I notice any atrophy I'll start

Personal choice, not recommending anyone else doesn't run HCG just because I've chosen not to


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

little_horus said:


> Pi55ed myself at this one mate!!! - Sorry to hear you're having some problems with the injecting, guess I've been lucky thus far with both of my first 2 in the old glutes (apart from nearly blacking out after first one)- No blood or anything as of yet....still a bit of fear though!
> 
> You gonna put up any progress pics soon mate? Should be putting a few up soon myself as I've just finished the 2 week mark with my course. Starting to look a bit fuller already, Dbol appears to be working as a decent kick start - Upped the dose to 20mg ED which seems to be my sweet spot.


Will try and load one up tonight mate


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Just trained Shoulders.

Short little heavy ditty ending in 40kg DB's being hurtled up for copious amounts of reps


----------



## cellmore (Aug 26, 2008)

CJ said:


> Just trained Shoulders.
> 
> Short little heavy ditty ending in 40kg DB's being hurtled up for copious amounts of reps


where did they land lol?


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

In reality I struggled for 10 reps bud ;-)


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJ said:


> In reality I struggled for 10 reps bud ;-)


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Tosser 

I'll have to find a bench or squat tutorial for you nob jockey


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJ said:


> Tosser
> 
> I'll have to find a bench or squat tutorial for you nob jockey


why so defensive lol


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Well mainly because you've still got my deadlifting self estem 

AND, even if I do get to your deadlifting weight, I'll still know that your a natty fvcker so that will make me even more inadequate :cursing: Squats and Bench are all I have :beer:

Update pic, sh1t once I know but my digital camera has packed up.


----------



## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Arms are looking good in that photo. Tris looking big.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks mate


----------



## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

PCT will be the following

100/50/50/50 Clomid

20/20/20/20 Nolva

Clomid is to bring back fertility and nolva is to stop gyno right?

What do the numbers mean before the words clomid and nolva?


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

they're doses mate. So :-

100mg each day for week 1 / 50mg per day week2 /

And so on.

Both Clomid and Nolve are SERMS mate (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) They block all the Pit / Hyp gland's receptors from the excess estrogen post cycle.

HCG is whats used to get the boys firing again


----------



## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

CJ said:


> Update pic, sh1t once I know but my digital camera has packed up.


Looking solid CJ, good progress! - Hows your diet going? How many Cals taking in each day? Thinking of upping my intake a bit - Should have some progress pics up the morrow as it's rest day. Injection no3 also!


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

looking big in that pic bro, like the name change aswell

what sort of diet are you following and has it cahnged mych since you went on the tbol cycle?


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

little_horus said:


> Looking solid CJ, good progress! - Hows your diet going? How many Cals taking in each day? Thinking of upping my intake a bit - Should have some progress pics up the morrow as it's rest day. Injection no3 also!


Ta bud, diet is spot on, apart from the weekend where I was a little slack. Taking in around 3500 cals a day but may reduce that slighty. currently weighing in at 93.8kg which is around 5kg since the start of cycle (12 days) so I'm prob eating too much mate.



ash1981 said:


> looking big in that pic bro, like the name change aswell
> 
> what sort of diet are you following and has it cahnged mych since you went on the tbol cycle?


Pretty much the same diet Ash, maybe a bit more.

I've thrown in some HMB and Glutamine to help muscle recovery whilst on cycle.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Just google'd him, wouldn't want to meet him in a bad mood


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

lookin good mate, im thinking of using tbol instead of dbol next cycle, how you finding it?


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Good mate, strength is creeping up and weight is going up a little too fast


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Just trained back, strength has really gone up.

BP was 137/79 this morning. Got a slight head cold and chesty cough.

Wasn't 100% before the cycle + a little test flu I reckon.

4th Jab tonight


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Well, after 2 sh!tty jabs this one went perfectly

In, no pain, out, no blood. easy peasy.


----------



## Spark (Jan 13, 2011)

CJ said:


> BP was 137/79 this morning.


Whats your norm bp? I have been told i had a high bp, My two reading where 146/90 and 142/78


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thats not particularly high mate, high end of normal I would say.

Usually around 130/ 80


----------



## Addoctor Magnus (Nov 18, 2008)

Normal BP should be no more than 120/80. Numbers higher than this increase your longterm risk of cardiovascular complications, especially to the microvasculature - ie. kidneys and retina.

More than 1 systolic reading of 140 is technically systolic hypertension, and your GP needs to address this. For people with hypertension, target BP is 140/90 (but closer to 120 the better!).

If you're diabetic, then target is 130/80 as you're microvasculature is already getting a beating from the sugars, and is easily damaged by smaller rises in BP.

If you smoke, all of the negative effects mentioned above will happen sooner, with more severity.


----------



## Spark (Jan 13, 2011)

I done two reading this morning before breakfast. Got 131/82 and 135/89. I am 27 years old and train 4 days a week. Don't smoke and rarely drink alcohol. Any supps I could take to try lower my bp?


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Addoctor Magnus said:


> Normal BP should be no more than 120/80. Numbers higher than this increase your longterm risk of cardiovascular complications, especially to the microvasculature - ie. kidneys and retina.
> 
> More than 1 systolic reading of 140 is technically systolic hypertension, and your GP needs to address this. For people with hypertension, target BP is 140/90 (but closer to 120 the better!).
> 
> ...


I'm taking steroids, that's not a normal situation.

When I talk in terms of BP being okay, its in regards to someone on cycle not joe bloggs walking down the street.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Taken off the BP Association website

(120/80-140/90): You have a normal blood pressure reading but it is a little higher than it should be, and you should try to lower it.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Spark said:


> I done two reading this morning before breakfast. Got 131/82 and 135/89. I am 27 years old and train 4 days a week. Don't smoke and rarely drink alcohol. Any supps I could take to try lower my bp?


Hawthorn, Garlic, celery


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## Spark (Jan 13, 2011)

Would it be advisable for me to try get my bp down to a lower level before I start my first tbol cycle?Sorry to go off subject on your post


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

That's not for me to say mate.

Personally if I was worried, I'd nip to the doctors to get a reading.


----------



## TeamEverett (Jan 28, 2011)

Cheers for the heads up mate


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cant help you there but I would delete your post before you get banned bud.


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## Spark (Jan 13, 2011)

Bp was 128/80 this morning. I have a second appointment this week to get checked. Cheers


----------



## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

Ive been reading into sust a bit more recently. My source is out of test e for a few weeks so i was thinking of getting some sust in and doing sust 12 weeks with a dbol kickstart. i was reading tho that to keep blood levels stable with sust that it should be injected frequently... as much as eod. how you finding once a week? I think eod is a bit excessive. I was considering 250mg every 4th day


----------



## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

deep85 said:


> Ive been reading into sust a bit more recently. My source is out of test e for a few weeks so i was thinking of getting some sust in and doing sust 12 weeks with a dbol kickstart. i was reading tho that to keep blood levels stable with sust that it should be injected frequently... as much as eod. how you finding once a week? I think eod is a bit excessive. I was considering 250mg every 4th day


cj is keeping his blood levels stable with 250mg shots on mon and thursday from what i have read on his thread...................


----------



## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

Spark said:


> Bp was 128/80 this morning. I have a second appointment this week to get checked. Cheers


Thats a completley normal BP reading mate.


----------



## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

Mr H said:


> cj is keeping his blood levels stable with 250mg shots on mon and thursday from what i have read on his thread...................


sorry my fault.. i thought i read cj was doing one shot per week.


----------



## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

deep85 said:


> sorry my fault.. i thought i read cj was doing one shot per week.


no worries mate....i too think sust is better x2 or x3 a week rather than once a week!!! not only for stable blood levels but also ouch on the pip for me personally as i get a bee sting effect just from 250mgs shots pharma or ugl


----------



## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

hopefully cj will be posting on here again soon however i do know he went to brighton for the weekend with the intension of having plenty of bumming :lol:


----------



## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

Yo CJ hows the cycle coming along? You eat big over the weekend? Gotta say I'm loving the Dbol kick start, 20mgs ED is working wonders, still haven't had any adverse side effects yet apart from my clothes getting smaller. Got my first progress pics up if interested? -

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/123947-adventure-into-world-aas-little-horus-3.html

Think the test may just be starting to kick in as my appetite has started to shoot through the roof, and all I can think about is sex/lifting heavy weights! Can't wait till tomorrow afternoon to hit it heavy in the gym! Felling much from the sus yet?


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

yo when you become cj


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## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

bizzlewood said:


> yo when you become cj


Guess gyno just looks good on some guys! :thumb:


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Oh I remeber Cj 

To be honest mate, I'm much better looking than her. Arms not so big as hers though (and I bet she could deadlift more as well)

Wayne, I'm all bummed out so will be back to training tomorrow. I'll show you how the big boys train chest tomorrow :whistling:


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

little_horus said:


> Yo CJ hows the cycle coming along? You eat big over the weekend? Gotta say I'm loving the Dbol kick start, 20mgs ED is working wonders, still haven't had any adverse side effects yet apart from my clothes getting smaller. Got my first progress pics up if interested? -
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/123947-adventure-into-world-aas-little-horus-3.html
> 
> Think the test may just be starting to kick in as my appetite has started to shoot through the roof, and all I can think about is sex/lifting heavy weights! Can't wait till tomorrow afternoon to hit it heavy in the gym! Felling much from the sus yet?


Yeah, same as you really mate. Chest tomorrow so going to go for a 1 RM I think


----------



## Mr H (Nov 14, 2005)

oi i am still waiting for you to lift heavier than me and i know on chest that will NEVER happen boyo


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

CJ said:


> Oh I remeber Cj
> 
> To be honest mate, I'm much better looking than her. Arms not so big as hers though (and I bet she could deadlift more as well)
> 
> Wayne, I'm all bummed out so will be back to training tomorrow. I'll show you how the big boys train chest tomorrow :whistling:


i think most people can deadlift more than you 

p.s squats are for idiots


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Boom, its definitely kicked in now :cool2:

Chest and Tris's

Last set on bench was 160kg for 5 (last 2 we're assisted, final rep was prob more my spotters than mine :whistling: )

The last set on decline was a drop set that started on 150kg for 4 finishing with 60kg for 8 ( complete fvcking torture)

Never felt a feeling like that in my chest, even on Tbol. It felt like my chest was about to explode 

I'm aiming for 180kg bench by the end of cycle

Weight is 94.1kg


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Just got home from blasting shoulders and calves, fvcked Hamstrings off so I'll do them with quads on Sat.

Standing oly bar military presses, from the ground, 2 working sets of 90kg for 7 reps. Too much weight though as my training partner was fvcked from helping me on the last couple of reps

DB raises 40kg for 2 working sets.

Weight is currently 93.6kg, I think the loss of weight is water.


----------



## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

CJ said:


> Boom, its definitely kicked in now :cool2:
> 
> Chest and Tris's
> 
> ...


Fvcking hell your strength is very good for your weight Craig! Especially considering your not far off being natural really in the scheme of things.

Keep going it will be interesting to see your photos at the end of the cycle.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks mate, I really appreciate it

It helps having a bigger and stronger training partner, he constantly pushes me to keep up with him.


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Just read all this thread mate start to finish, .. fvckin awesome journal pal. would like to see a bit more of your daily foods, but i understand its a ball ache to keep writing foods down..

Anyway as far as everything is concerned mate fvckin awesome, Well done so far mate proud of you

Looks really proffesional and thought out pal

Cheers !!!


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks Flinty, kind words bud.

I'll write my complete food intake out tomorrow bud


----------



## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

CJ said:


> Boom, its definitely kicked in now :cool2:
> 
> Chest and Tris's
> 
> ...


YEeeeeeeeeaaaaH! Just reading this gave me a pump! Awesome work mate, gettin' strong!


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

cheers bud

Legs tonight so i'm building myself up lol


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Trained legs tonight,

HOLY FVCK

I always considered my leg workouts to be okay, nothing amazing but adequate for growth.

WRONG

I've been training them like a little girl and now seriously need to up my game.

Tonight I blasted them to the point where I was dizzy, nauseous and my scrawny pins were screaming for mercy. the pumps were almost painful

Every exercise was to complete failure, got a couple half reps when the strength wasn't there for a full rep.

I feel bad, really bad and I know I'm in for a world of sh!te tomorrow.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Yep, I'm in a world of sh!t 

Almost passed out when I sat on the toilet this morning


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

CJ said:


> Yep, I'm in a world of sh!t
> 
> Almost passed out when I sat on the toilet this morning


LOL. just go steady mate ....


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Will do mate,

Had a cracking back workout last night, rest day today


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Short sharp training session, just chest in the end. Strength was definitely done due to lack of food and sleep

Incline on smiths with 120kg + bar for 8 reps (4 sets)

Decline on smith machine with 100kg + bar for 8 reps (3 sets)

Chest pullovers with 40kg DB (prob not the right name for the exercise)

+ a few other isolation moves like Pec deck ect

I've realised I'm crap with names of exercises, I need to do more reading up on them.

Just ate around 12 pieces of boneless chicken from KFC (cheat meal)


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

CJ said:


> Short sharp training session, just chest in the end. Strength was definitely done due to lack of food and sleep
> 
> Incline on smiths with 120kg + bar for 8 reps (4 sets)
> 
> ...


Nice lifts mate, do you like the decline smith press ???

Im thinking of using that press alone as my main compound press for chest, as its pretty much the best range of movement for your chest anyway i would imagine it is the best for growing your chest also !!!


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Love decline mate, helps take the emphasis off my front delts, which I'm prone to when flat bench.

The only problem is that I have to use the smiths machine as there is no free weight decline,


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

CJ said:


> Love decline mate, helps take the emphasis off my front delts, which I'm prone to when flat bench.
> 
> The only problem is that I have to use the smiths machine as there is no free weight decline,


yeah i will have to aswell mate to do decline. but im definitely going to use it more for the pressing, my shoulder is starting to play up mate and im getting concerned , dont want to fall short halfway through this course ...


----------



## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

CJ said:


> Yep, I'm in a world of sh!t
> 
> Almost passed out when I sat on the toilet this morning


Ha ha that feelings magic, After few months training I totally switch up excersises/sets/reps etc an after first few workouts I get those ****in horrible unbearable aches and pains you got when you first started lifting.

Its horrible but come on its why most of us go to the gym isnt it-PROGRESS ha ha

Keep up the gr8 log mate.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Cheers bud

pics of me 3 weeks into my cycle

Desperately need more mass, lean down and get a tan

Legs are sh!te. Opinions please guys good and bad

Weight was 94kg today


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Mate do us a pic of you with your arms down want to see front delts and traps properly mate .. thanks !!!


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Will do bud, I'm a fat bloater at the moment and really not happy with the way I look. I've got to keep reminding myself that I've only been training for 15 months and these things take time.

Started using Dutch Scott as an online trainer as my diet is way off at the mo. Hopefully see some improvements soon


----------



## ausername (Oct 11, 2009)

Put your arms next to your body :lol:

Huge difference from when you started.

How bad has your diet gotten? And what have you implemented to improve it?


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

Surprisingly your back is quite decent mate

I think the two things you need to bring up are chest and delts

IMO you're doing really well


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Its not that the diet is bad, as in eating bad things.

Its clean but the fats and carbs are all over the place. There is no structure at all.

I stood all saggy on purpose to show my worse pose.

Bizzle your right my chest and delts are lagging. I think my form must be bad on chest as its one of my best exercises strength wise. Might strip the weight right back and get back to basics with form.

I'm a million miles from where I want to be but I know these things take time.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

How do you bring up a lagging bodypart ? train it twice a week


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

CJ said:


> How do you bring up a lagging bodypart ? train it twice a week


train it harder.... wouldnt train it more.

I have heard a lot of people deload and increase reps... just for a few weeks, then start increasing weight again..

What is your shoulder routine like mate ???


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

I'm not sure if I can mate, sounds silly but I do train very intense. Maybe form is sh!te ???


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

CJ said:


> I'm not sure if I can mate, sounds silly but I do train very intense. Maybe form is sh!te ???


re read my post pal.. edited it .. whats your chest and shoulder routine ????


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah deloading might be the key.

Shoulder workout is usually military press, seated DB press, sides raises or front raises and then some trap work

Chest is usually bench, decline bench, flys or peck dec and then a couple of sets on the seated pressing machine.

Feeling down now lol, need to get this party started again ;-)


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

My chest and delts where **** for years

This is what helped me

Incline barbell x4

Decline barbellx4

Incline cable flies x4

Weighted dips x4

Delts

Barbell or dumbbell military press x 4

Behind the back cable lateral raises x3

Dumbbell lateral raises x3

Bent over lateral raisex3

Face pullsx3

4 sets of barbell shrugs

3 sets of dumbbell shrugs


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

CJ said:


> Yeah deloading might be the key.
> 
> Shoulder workout is usually military press, seated DB press, sides raises or front raises and then some trap work
> 
> ...


Ok do this shoulder routine mate for 3 weeks...

4 sets x 15 front raises, only use 5 kg (strict)

4 sets x 15 side raises, only use 5 kg (strict)

4 sets x 15 rear raises ( have a bench at a incline and lay on the bench with your stomach and your arms around back of bench if you know what i mean..

Then do 4 sets x 15 smith machine press down to your nose and back up ( strict) up to whatever weight you can get all 4 sets and all reps out on.

then do shrugs. 25 kg plate in each hand lift and hold for 2 seconds. really high behind your ears . 4 sets x 15 slow and strict

That will perk up your shoulders mate i guarantee it... do this for 3 weeks ,


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks for the input guys. I will try the methods you've posted but my training starts will dutch scott tomorrow so I'll see how that goes for the next 12 weeks.

Really appreciate the help


----------



## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

hows it going CJ.


----------



## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

I've just seen this. I'm 8 weeks into a similar cycle.

Weeks 1 to 3 Turinabol 50mg per day

weeks 1 to 10 Testosterone enanthate 500mg

weeks 5 to 12 HCG 250iu, twice a week

ZMA, maybe once or twice a week, and proviron 25mg or 50mg if I'm feeling a bit watery, or Mrs Zorrin needs a good seeing-to.

After my last test shot, I will do another week of Tbol, and a couple of weeks of MHN (methyl hydroxy nandrolone). I may throw some winstrol in, but I'm not a big fan of winnie. It makes my tendons ache.

After this, straight into Nolva PCT.

I'm really liking this cycle, I'm making great gains and I feel good on it. I'm 43, weight training for 22 years, most of them natural.

Tbol is my favourite oral steroid. It's just a great, low-sides nitrogen retention agent. It's neither wet, nor super-dry - you just sort of stay the same, but gaining half a pound of quality muscle a day.

I was about 12 stone when I started, 13 stone at the end of the Tbol kickstart, and I'm about 14 stone now. My 6-pack is not quite visible under a bit of water, but I like to keep it warm at this time of the year!


----------



## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

yo cj mate hows it going?


----------



## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

Any updates CJ?


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Sorry guys missed these posts.

Training is going very well thanks lads.

As your prob aware (cant remember if I mentioned it) I'm now being trained by Dutch scott and seeing huge improvements.

BF is lowering whilst adding mass. Here's a pic taken 2 weeks ago, I'm a little leaner now.

I want to be around 4kg heavier at around 10% but we'll see


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## ChemDawg (Apr 12, 2011)

Great progress, anymore updates?


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## airman (Mar 28, 2012)

CJ mate, cant find your tbol only cycle log. Can u give me link of it id u are still around. Great progress btw


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

airman said:


> CJ mate, cant find your tbol only cycle log. Can u give me link of it id u are still around. Great progress btw


Hey bud, just caught this.........not been on the site for a while..

Your still around


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