# What kicks u out of keto?



## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

Apart from the obvious what kicks you out of keto?

I've been running keto for the last few days and have been testing each day with a keto stick to see what's going on .. First few days were good it showed I was in keto ..

However this morning is showing negative.. If anything I lowered my carbs yesterday and my fat in take was about 70%

The only thing different I did the day before was drink a fair bit of coke zero and had a new black coffees with sweetener.. I have a feeling it could be the artificial sugar? Can anyone shed any light on this?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

pi55 sticks dont tell you if you are in ketosis.

They only show UNUSED ketones in your pee


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## jackedbrah (Feb 1, 2013)

Coke Zero never kicked me out of ketosis. But 2-3 sticks of sugar-free trident or orbit gum pretty much always do.

Rule of the thumb is to avoid all sugar free products with sugar alcohol for at least 10-14 days to put your body into pure ketosis.


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

jackedbrah said:


> Coke Zero never kicked me out of ketosis. But 2-3 sticks of sugar-free trident or orbit gum pretty much always do.
> 
> Rule of the thumb is to avoid all sugar free products with sugar alcohol for at least 10-14 days to put your body into pure ketosis.


Ah this is a pain.. I sometimes have a coke zero just to taste something difference than water and black coffee .. I did a night shift and drank alot of coke zero and have sweetener in my coffee .. This is the only thing I can think of unless the sticks are wrong but I'm not sure x


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Tassotti said:


> pi55 sticks dont tell you if you are in ketosis.
> 
> They only show UNUSED ketones in your pee


Exactly, keto sticks can tell you that you aren't in ketosis when you are... is quite normal in fact for someone fully adapted to a ketogenic metabolism to not show ketosis on a pee strip at all after the first couple of weeks.

Also there are many things which can present a false negative reading with keto sticks such as artificial sweeteners (which don't knock you out as many assume)... keto sticks are not particularly useful as a guide tbh.

As for what will throw you out, higher protein intake or carbs too high. Is also much more difficult to maintain stable ketosis when most of the fat eaten is as saturated fat rather than polyunsaturated fat, so if protein intake is borderline for ketosis, the type of fats you eat can determine whether you stay in ketosis or not.

It doesn't actually matter though, as the benefits for the insulin insensitive that ketosis gives are also equally evident in a low carb non ketogenic diet. The state of ketosis itself is very misrepresented as a magic fat loss state.


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Exactly, keto sticks can tell you that you aren't in ketosis when you are... is quite normal in fact for someone fully adapted to a ketogenic metabolism to not show ketosis on a pee strip at all after the first couple of weeks.
> 
> Also there are many things which can present a false negative reading with keto sticks such as artificial sweeteners (which don't knock you out as many assume)... keto sticks are not particularly useful as a guide tbh.
> 
> ...


I eat alot of cheese around 200g feta, eggs , chicken , bacon , green beans and spinach peanut butter and nuts , protein bar or shake after my work out and that's about my daily in take .. Some days il have a coke zero or sweetener is my coffee just to give me a sweet fix .. I tested yesterday and showed keto state but today negative ..altho yesterday I had more fat than normal


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

There is also a phenomenon where the body self-regulates and produces glucose while you rest and that can also kick you out of ketosis

Diabetics call it the dawn phenomenon (I think)

Happened to me every morning.

Don't get too hung up on being in ketosis. As long as you are dropping fat, then it doesn't really matter too much.


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Exactly, keto sticks can tell you that you aren't in ketosis when you are... is quite normal in fact for someone fully adapted to a ketogenic metabolism to not show ketosis on a pee strip at all after the first couple of weeks.
> 
> Also there are many things which can present a false negative reading with keto sticks such as artificial sweeteners (which don't knock you out as many assume)... keto sticks are not particularly useful as a guide tbh.
> 
> ...


The palumbos keto diet has higher protein than fat ratio, how does it differ from a traditional higher fat to protein diet?


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## oaklad (Sep 12, 2007)

fullyloaded said:


> The palumbos keto diet has higher protein than fat ratio, how does it differ from a traditional higher fat to protein diet?


Proper keto should be 70%fat and 30%protein


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

oaklad said:


> Proper keto should be 70%fat and 30%protein


I know that, but apart from percentages, what difference does it make, you can still be in ketosis either way?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

fullyloaded said:


> The palumbos keto diet has higher protein than fat ratio, how does it differ from a traditional higher fat to protein diet?


The body can maintain ketosis with a higher than normal protein or even higher carb intake if the body is very active, and Palumbos diet is one which, fairly obviously, is targeted to people who are physically active and who train. In general keto macros for someone who trains regularly should be higher protein than the standard therapeutic keto diet for epilepsy.

Ketone use for fuel doesn't just switch off or on at a certain point though - the body uses ketones as energy (especially in the liver but also in some other tissues) to a very low degree even on a high carb/high calorie diet... is simply that as carbs, protein and calories decrease, ketone production and use for energy gradually increases until a point is reached where glucose metabolism is so limited that ketones become a significant energy source.

Simple calorie restriction itself increases ketone use for fuel, as do periods of fasting. The general point though is that even if you do keep slipping in and out of a true ketosis it doesn't really matter for fat loss - the biggest issues with slipping in and out of ketosis frequently is that it can cause unstable perceived energy levels and mood.


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## fullyloaded (May 23, 2011)

dtlv said:


> The body can maintain ketosis with a higher than normal protein or even higher carb intake if the body is very active, and Palumbos diet is one which, fairly obviously, is targeted to people who are physically active and who train. In general keto macros for someone who trains regularly should be higher protein than the standard therapeutic keto diet for epilepsy.
> 
> Ketone use for fuel doesn't just switch off or on at a certain point though - the body uses ketones as energy (especially in the liver but also in some other tissues) to a very low degree even on a high carb/high calorie diet... is simply that as carbs, protein and calories decrease, ketone production and use for energy gradually increases until a point is reached where glucose metabolism is so limited that ketones become a significant energy source.
> 
> Simple calorie restriction itself increases ketone use for fuel, as do periods of fasting. The general point though is that even if you do keep slipping in and out of a true ketosis it doesn't really matter for fat loss - the biggest issues with slipping in and out of ketosis frequently is that it can cause unstable perceived energy levels and mood.


Thanks for clearing that up, it has been a question I've needed answering for a while now. I'm following more if a palumbos style diet, adapted to suit my needs. It seems to be working, just wondered if I was to do a more traditional keto diet it would be better?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

fullyloaded said:


> Thanks for clearing that up, it has been a question I've needed answering for a while now. I'm following more if a palumbos style diet, adapted to suit my needs. It seems to be working, just wondered if I was to do a more traditional keto diet it would be better?


Hard to say, but I think after my own little trials with keto diets a while back that it's best to keep protein as high as you can... is true the lower the protein the more stable the ketosis, but also the greater the loss of lean tissue mass. For an average person not concerned specifically with muscle mass retention this relatively small difference isn't an issue other than losing out on the increased TEF from more dietary protein, but to a strength athlete or bodybuilder those small differences add up IMO... if you've found a tweak to the diet that seemingly works well then stick with it!


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## misshayley (Dec 5, 2011)

Can anyone shed any light on vodka? 1g carb a shot? Is vodka going to kick me out of keto?

I love seeing the results .. It's been a week and each day I feel that little bit slimmer.. It's been hard fitting it into my life style but I've adapted my life style to fit into my diet not the other way around


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