# Anabolik vs Madcow



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

This is my first attempt at doing a journal. I decided it would be a good idea to log my progress on here as extra motivation for me to finally make some decent progress with my lifting.

I've spent the past 2+ years fvcking about changing programs, bulking one month then the next cutting due to getting too fat. The result of all this fannying about is I've hardly made any progress in my lifts in this time despite being on AAS the entire period. It hasn't been due to lack of intensity or effort in the gym however, I always put 100% into every set of each exercise but without a good diet it hasn't got me very far. I don't think my body is made for going to failure on every set every single workout so I'm taking a different approach to hopefully yield better results.

I will be coming off my cycle and doing pct at the start of january so I'll be bulking like a mofo to gain as much strength and size as possible before then.

I'll be doing a modified version of Madcow's intermediate program as follows:

Monday

Bench Press 5x5

Yates Rows 5x5

Squats 5x5

Wednesday

Squats 3x5

Military Press 3x6-8

Chinups 3x6-8

Deadlifts 2x8-12

Friday

Bench Press 4x5, 1x3, 1x8

Yates Rows 4x5, 1x3, 1x8

Squats 4x5, 1x3, 1x8

Dips 3x6-8

BB Curls 3x6-8

BB Extensions 3x6-8

I've just finished a long cut and in this time my strength has dropped quite a bit so the aim of this bulk is to get back where I was and hopefully surpass my previous pb's on all the lifts. Am also hoping to finally get to 16" arms as I've been stuck at 15" for at least a year it's ridiculous!

Pre-cut:

Bench Press 100kgx5

Yates Row 100kgx5

Squat 160kgx5

Deadlift 210kgx3

Military Press 75kgx5

There's no way I'll be smashing my deadlift pb as I messed my back up getting those 3 reps lol so I'm doing sets of around 10 reps now as it puts much less pressure on my lower back. If I can get to 160kg or so for 10 I'll be more than happy.

I'll be consuming at least 4000 cals every day along with 300g of protein minimum. Will be jabbing 125mg test e every 3 days.

Stats:

5' 7"

160lbs

15" arms

I'll try and update with pics every couple of weeks.

Let the games begin! :gun_bandana:


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Best of luck mate :thumb:

Look alot bigger than 160lbs in your avi

Edit: Subbed BTW


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## -dionysus- (May 29, 2011)

In for this mate, Madcow is the one strength programme I missed out. 5x5, 3x5, 1x5, 5/3/1, GVT, PHAT (not pure strength but my favourite).


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

What a sh1tty way to start my journel...looks like I'm not going to be able to squat to decent depth for a while so I'm going to have to replace them with powercleans or only squat to about 90 degrees. When I go lower that that I get a pain in my lower back to the right hand side, not sure if it's my back or the top of my glutes but it doesn't feel right at all. Actually my whole right leg feels dodgy all down the back...my quads are totally fine but my calf, hamstring, glute and lower back are all not feeling right when I bend over or squat down past a certain angle even with no weight on my back.

I can't afford to get a serious injury at this point so I've no option but to change my routine. I did a few powercleans with 70kg at the end of my workout and it felt totally fine no pain at all so they may make a half decent replacement while I heal up.

Since the madcow routine requires a deload of at least 10% of your max for 5 reps these next few workouts are going to be easy and with pathetic numbers but it should pay off. I think it's about time I had a deload anyway I've been going at it hard for months without a break so maybe this is what I need to finally make some progress.

I'm only going to put the top work set for each exercise.

Todays workout:

Bench Press 75kgx5

Yates row 80kgx5

Squat 120kgx5

Even that light weight on the squats felt hard due to my messed up back/glute/leg. I was doing 120kg for 20 reps a few weeks ago ffs :/

Feels strange leaving the gym not really feeling like I've put any effort in and with a dry t-shirt lol


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Great lifts mate. I'm a big fan of full body work outs. Good luck.

For your back. Make sure you stretch you hammies and you foam roll if you have one


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Took a pic after my session today didn't have a pump though. Feel ridiculously small at the moment, probably due to pushing such tiny weights. This game really plays with your head.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

anabolik said:


> Took a pic after my session today didn't have a pump though. Feel ridiculously small at the moment, probably due to pushing such tiny weights. This game really plays with your head.
> 
> View attachment 98327


Might feel small but your arms and shoulders look massive mate.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Great lifts mate. I'm a big fan of full body work outs. Good luck.
> 
> For your back. Make sure you stretch you hammies and you foam roll if you have one


Thanks mate, I take it you mean my previous best lifts lol

Can't really stretch properly I knew something was wrong even before today's workout. I can bend down to my left no problem but when I try bending down on the right I get the pain from the top of my glutes to my lower back. I can't tell if it's muscle or tendon problems but something isn't right.

Don't have a foam roller and tbh not quite sure what they even do. Do you just sort of roll along it with your knees on the floor then roll back using your lower back to support you?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

XRichHx said:


> Might feel small but your arms and shoulders look massive mate.


Cheers fella. My shoulders are have always been one of my strong points. My rear delts do need work though!


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

anabolik said:


> Cheers fella. My shoulders are have always been one of my strong points. My rear delts do need work though!


Couple of sets of rear delt flys brought mine on a treat on back day.

I see your back is wrecked right now, in the same boat, really annoying so know how you feel. Never thought about cleans so I might give them a try.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

anabolik said:


> Thanks mate, I take it you mean my previous best lifts lol
> 
> Can't really stretch properly I knew something was wrong even before today's workout. I can bend down to my left no problem but when I try bending down on the right I get the pain from the top of my glutes to my lower back. I can't tell if it's muscle or tendon problems but something isn't right.
> 
> Don't have a foam roller and tbh not quite sure what they even do. Do you just sort of roll along it with your knees on the floor then roll back using your lower back to support you?


Probably easier too have a mooch on YouTube rather than try and type it. Good little toy


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## -dionysus- (May 29, 2011)

like Simonsays 

Hamstrings mate- it's shocking the pain you can get in your lower back from them being tight- in fact the pain can go down the calves.

I had lower back pain and it was related to my Hammies.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Pretty good workout today. Back felt not too bad so I went ahead with my deadlifts although I made sure I didn't go very far past my knee on the way down. I do them Yates style without deweighting the bb on the floor between each rep.

Today's workout:

Military Press 55kgx6

Lateral Raises 7.5kgx10 (done with straight arms nice and slow on the neg)

Chinups 25kgx5

Deadlifts 120kgx12

Rear Delt Flyes 12.5kgx13 (done standing up straight)

I'm considering adding in something else on top of the test to make this bulk more productive...not sure exactly what yet I have to make sure I can afford it on top of all the food I'm going to be cramming down my throat lol

Had a look at a video of how to use a foam roller. Looks a right pain in the ar5e lol but if it will help then I'll get one when I have some extra cash.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Love friday's workout get a really nice pump from all the dropsets and arm training at the end 

Was so tempted to go for max reps on the top set but I was good and stuck to the program lol

Bench Press 77.5kgx3, 60kgx8 dropset

Yates row 87.5kgx3, 70kgx8 dropset

Chest Dips 30kgx5

BB Curls 40kgx5

Overhead BB Extensions 40kgx6

Probably shouldn't have gone so heavy on the dips and arm exercises but I don't think it'll blow up the program, or at least i hope not! Pretty sure you're supposed to reset just the main lifts (squat, military, bench, dead and row) so I should be fine.

Did some hamstring and lower back stretches a few times today and already feeling the benefit. Depending on how the deadlifts feel next wednesday I may drop all compound exercises for the legs for a few weeks while it all heals up.

If I do this I'll have to work some extensions, ham curls and calf raises into the program somewhere so my poor legs don't wither away in the meantime lol

Will be ordering some peptides in a few days so hopefully they'll help my niggling pains 

I suppose I can't really call this madcows program anymore can I haha it's been b4stardised beyond belief! Maybe I'd be better off changing to a normal 5x5 program with a chest + shoulders/back/arms + legs split? What do you guys think?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Ok I might need to change the title of my journal lol I'm now doing a customised version of starting strength as I'm sick of the weights going up so slowly. I just want to get to where i was before strength-wise it's really p1ssing me off and I'm not the most patient person in the world.

Here is todays workout:

Military Press 60kgx3x5

WG Pulldowns (no numbers on the stack :/) No.6 + 2.5kgx3x5

Tricep Dips 30kgx9

Ab Crunch Machine 20kgx9

Seated Calf Raises 110kgx20, dropset 75kgx20, dropset 50kgx23

I can feel my strength returning! haha

Here's a little update pic taken today.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

anabolik said:


> Ok I might need to change the title of my journal lol I'm now doing a customised version of starting strength as I'm sick of the weights going up so slowly. I just want to get to where i was before strength-wise it's really p1ssing me off and I'm not the most patient person in the world.
> 
> Here is todays workout:
> 
> ...


Huge improvements already mate, well done :thumb:


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Galaxy said:


> Huge improvements already mate, well done :thumb:


Notsureifserious? lol

Forgot to mention I'm going back on the tren  should be here tomorrow so that should help a wee bit with increasing my lifts hopefully.

Will be running Isis tri-tren at 200mg pw alongside my test at 400mg pw. I'm hoping to be benching at least 110kg for 3 sets of 5 by the new year. If I can get to 120kg for one set of 5 I'll be over the moon.

Bench has always been one of my weakest lifts so I'm determined to get it up to a half decent level this time.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Serious mate, looking leaner in your new pic 

strenght should shoot up with the tren by all accounts


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Mate you look great. Can't believe you're just 160lbs. Look much heavier and low bodyfat too. Well done!


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Galaxy said:


> Serious mate, looking leaner in your new pic
> 
> strenght should shoot up with the tren by all accounts


Cheers mate 

I must confess I have shaved my arms n chest last night (not for vanity reasons lol) so that may have something to do with me looking more defined.

I'm actually about a stone heavier now than I was in my previous pics. Don't think much fat has gone on though, must be mostly glycogen and water from all the extra carbs I'm scoffing down. Maybe a tiny but of muscle too.

Tren does wonders for my strength so it should be interesting!


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Subbed for this. How old are you if you dont mind me asking?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Subbed for this. How old are you if you dont mind me asking?


I'm 27 mate.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Got a nice little surprise in the post today 



Jabbed just over 1ml of the tri-tren along with my usual 0.7ml of test e as a little kickstart. After 7 days I'll settle the dose down to 0.5ml every 3 days giving me 200mg tren pw.

I actually can't wait to feel like an animal again! haha I love tren.

Anyway here's today's workout:

Bench Press 80kgx3x5

Yates Row 90kgx3x5

Leg Extensions 14px1x8 + dropset 8px6

Chinups 25kgx1x6

Ab Crunch Machine 20kgx1x9

Not being able to do squats or deads is really p1ssing me off :cursing:

I'm worried my glutes are going to fade away to nothing lol I'm doing isolations for my calves, hams and quads but glutes are being untouched.

I may try deadlifting this wednesday with 100kg just to see how everything feels. Fvcking 100kg I was pulling twice that a few months ago for reps ffs.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Had my second jab of tri-tren today before heading off to the gym, just 0.9ml this time.

Today's workout:

Military Press 62.5kgx3x5

Pulldowns 19p+5kgx3x5

Tricep Dips 35kgx1x8

Ham Curls 30kgx1x9, dropset 10kgx1x12

Was only aiming for 6 on the dips today so I'm happy to have gotten 8. I always seem to progress very well on dips wether it's chest or tri dips and they're probably one of my favourite exercises.

Now I'm way behind on my food intake it's nearly 10pm and all I've had is 2 bananas and a protein shake :/ Need to turn on beast mode and start hammering some food lol


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Oh and I didn't have the guts to try deads today lol think I'll leave that for next week. My lower back/hips/hams seem to be getting slightly better.

Need to get some peps in to speed recovery!


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Looking good mate! Where do you train in west yorks? you a leeds man?

Used that adex myself before, its good stuff, gave me headaches for about a week when I first started using it, but then they stopped.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

anabolik said:


> Had my second jab of tri-tren today before heading off to the gym, just 0.9ml this time.
> 
> Today's workout:
> 
> ...


Im into the dips mate,will be hammering them for the next 8 months or so,done a set with

60kg for 7or8 and ive got major pain now lol,king of the exersises!!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

just a thought m8, why dont u leave madcow for a bit if u cant squat and deadlift and sort your back out


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Looking good mate! Where do you train in west yorks? you a leeds man?


I could be totally wrong, but the background in his avi looks like it could be altered image.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Looking good mate! Where do you train in west yorks? you a leeds man?
> 
> Used that adex myself before, its good stuff, gave me headaches for about a week when I first started using it, but then they stopped.


Thanks mate. I'm in Bradford I never go to Leeds really everything's too expensive for my taste lol

I hadf a look for gyms in Leeds not too long ago and I was surprised how there was such little choice tbh but then Bradford's not much better.

Yea I think I've used this adex before myself too. It's made in the uk so it eases my mind that there's very little chance of it being fake...or at least that's what I tell myself


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

kingdale said:


> I could be totally wrong, but the background in his avi looks like it could be altered image.


I was totally wrong, changing rooms look the same as where i train though.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

mal said:


> Im into the dips mate,will be hammering them for the next 8 months or so,done a set with
> 
> 60kg for 7or8 and ive got major pain now lol,king of the exersises!!


Fvck me that's some decent weight there mate I'd be well happy to be dipping 60kg! If I can get to 50kg for 8 or so reps on this bulk I'll be happy.

I only just started doing tri dips I always used to do chest dips leaning forward and tbh I'm surprised how much they still hit the chest even when staying bolt upright with very close grip.

Fatstuff, That's exactly what I've done lol I'm now doing a heavily modified version of starting strength without the deads or squats. Just doing some leg isolation work after each workout to keep some size on down there.

Kingdale, No mate I train at Legends Gym. I nearly signed up at altered images when looking for a gym but it was too far to travel. Looks proper hardcore though from what I could see...lots of monsters training there too! Would make me feel well puny in comparison lol


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

kingdale said:


> I was totally wrong, changing rooms look the same as where i train though.


Do you train at Altered Images?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

anabolik said:


> Do you train at Altered Images?


Yeah its heaven after training at a crappy gym in otley last year.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

kingdale said:


> Yeah its heaven after training at a crappy gym in otley last year.


From what I could see they have a really nice range of equipment I'm not surprised you're enjoying it mate. If I left my current gym that's probably where I'd have to go. There's just hardly any decent gyms round here they're all fitness centres focused on cardio.

Makes me think I'd really love to open up a proper hardcore gym with power racks and the lot but it would cost much more than I have at my disposal. I can dream though :tongue:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

anabolik said:


> From what I could see they have a really nice range of equipment I'm not surprised you're enjoying it mate. If I left my current gym that's probably where I'd have to go. There's just hardly any decent gyms round here they're all fitness centres focused on cardio.
> 
> Makes me think I'd really love to open up a proper hardcore gym with power racks and the lot but it would cost much more than I have at my disposal. I can dream though :tongue:


Would probably do well aswell if there are no local ones around altered is always fairly busy. Does make you feel tiny training there though, when im with my mates i think im getting bigger then i look around there and im still one of the tiny ones.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

kingdale said:


> Would probably do well aswell if there are no local ones around altered is always fairly busy. Does make you feel tiny training there though, when im with my mates i think im getting bigger then i look around there and im still one of the tiny ones.


lol I know what you mean. Thankfully there's not many lumps that train at my gym so my ego isn't bruised when I'm having a good session. I think it's good in a way too though seeing bigger guys pushing more weight than you it gives me motivation to push harder and catch them up.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Today's workout:

Bench Press 82.5kgx3x5

Yates Row 92.5kgx3x5

Seated Calf Raises 110kgx1x21, dropset 75kgx1x23, dropset 50kgx1x20

Chinups 25kgx1x5 Less than last workout wtf??

Was going to do some grip work hanging from the pullup bar and some ab work but really couldn't be fvcked lol it's so tedious doing isolations.

Bench press felt very easy so I paused the last couple reps of each set to make it a little harder. I'm looking forward to pressing 100kg again in a few weeks time 

Yates rows felt strangely heavy so on the last set I used straps and for some reason my form improved loads and the reps felt much easier, not just on the forearms but the whole range of motion was more controlled with much better form than the previous sets. I may use straps on all 3 of my top sets for rows from now on.

I am really enjoying this modified starting strength program so far I love the simplicity of it and the constant progression. I do have the urge to rep out until failure on my top sets but I restrain myself haha


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Whats the difference between a bentover BB row and a yates row mate?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Whats the difference between a bentover BB row and a yates row mate?


Regular bb rows are usually done with your torso at 90 degrees parallel to the floor and bringing the bar up to meet the chest.

Yates rows are done more upright at about 45 degrees and pulling the weight into your stomach.

You can use more weight doing them Yates style and it puts the lower back under much less strain so is perfect for me in my damaged state lol


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

anabolik said:


> Regular bb rows are usually done with your torso at 90 degrees parallel to the floor and bringing the bar up to meet the chest.
> 
> Yates rows are done more upright at about 45 degrees and pulling the weight into your stomach.
> 
> You can use more weight doing them Yates style and it puts the lower back under much less strain so is perfect for me in my damaged state lol


Ahh right. Seems Ive been doing yates rows all along!


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Started using the leg press this week. I'm so happy to be training legs properly again I missed that deep burn so much haha

I'm not doing the full reps like I used to but it seems if I don't lock out and only come down a foot and a half or so then there is no pain.

Not sure how good this will be for ham or glute development but I really feel it in the quads.

I'm thinking starting next week I'll do leg press on mondays and fridays and just seated calf raises on wednesday.

Monday's workout:

Military Press 65kgx3x5

Pulldowns 1 plate from full stackx3x5

Weighted Tricep Dips 40kgx6

Leg Press 220kgx10

Wednesday's workout:

Bench Press 85kgx3x5

Yates Rows 95kgx3x5

Weighted Chinups 20kgx6

I've put nearly 20lbs on in the past few weeks since finishing my cut 

I'm eating at least 4000 cals every day...probably more like 4500 so I suppose it's no wonder I'm piling the weight on. Arms still look nice n vascular though.

Every time I cut down I always seem to retain more and more definition even at the peak of my bulk, so I guess that means I'm constantly getting leaner which is good. I must be doing something right. Although I'm still really disappointed in my lifts for the length of time I've been training.

My physique is getting better but I'm still not really any stronger than I was a year ago pmsl can that happen?


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

kingdale said:


> Yeah its heaven after training at a crappy gym in otley last year.


Haha I trained at the gym in otley for a year. Live down road from altered image and sometimes I'm there on a sat for some squats. Quality gym


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

robc1985 said:


> Haha I trained at the gym in otley for a year. Live down road from altered image and sometimes I'm there on a sat for some squats. Quality gym


The gym in otley is absolutely awful. I live near it aswell not far from wickes. Back and biceps for me on saturday least favourite session of the week.


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

kingdale said:


> The gym in otley is absolutely awful. I live near it aswell not far from wickes. Back and biceps for me on saturday least favourite session of the week.


Yeah I went there when I moved with partners rents in adel to save for a mortgage. To be fair I didn't mind it cos I was mainly doing compounds. The bicep curl brigade were annoying though.

I Also live a stones throw from wickes. Small world man!


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

robc1985 said:


> Small world man!


it is indeed. Will have to go for a legs session one day ( my favourite day).


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Good session today but had to cut it short as the gym was closing just as I finished the main exercises.

Military Press 67.5kgx3x5

Pulldowns 1 plate from full stack+2.5kgx3x5

Doesn't look like much but it still took me about 50 mins to get through as I like to rest about 3 mins between my sets.

Felt pretty hot n sweaty after the session must be the tren kicking in :thumbup1:

I'm now very close to smashing through my previous pb on military press. I've come to realise the press is all about form....you can have the strength there but if you get the form wrong and press to far away from your body that fvcker isn't going anywhere.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

:bounce:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Alright mate, I know you've had woman trouble, hope you've been using the anger at the gym!


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

onthebuild said:


> Alright mate, I know you've had woman trouble, hope you've been using the anger at the gym!


Thats the best way to do a workout lol


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Alright mate, I know you've had woman trouble, hope you've been using the anger at the gym!


Of course mate I don't let anything get in the way of my training, least of all some cheating wench lol

@ash1981 welcome bud!

So today's workout was pretty good. Anger definitely helps fuel my motivation to lift big!

Military Press 70kgx3x5

Pulldowns 1 plate from full stack+5kgx3x5

Tricep Dips 40kgx1x8

Dips going up nicely as usual I'm pretty sure I'll be dipping 50kg for 8 reps by the new year 

Will be doing the full stack on pulldowns next week too which is a nice hurdle to overcome...nothing like slamming the pin in the bottom to boost your confidence and make you feel badass haha

It's becoming so hard to get my food down the past few days though, I'm really struggling. I'm guessing it's the tren or could be stress related who knows...I'm sick of eating spag bol and mince wraps every fvcking day! I need to change up my diet a bit I think.

Also feeling constantly tired from the tren not letting me sleep properly. I'm having some crazy dreams but it's like I'm always on the verge of waking up. Snoring is getting pretty alarming too! I'm making noises I never thought possible to make pmsl


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

What sort of dreams you having in that sh1t mate?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

I cant wait to use tren again love the strength you get from it.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> What sort of dreams you having in that sh1t mate?


It's hard to say because I tend to forget them pretty much straight away but they are very vivid and real while they last. Last time I ran tren the dreams got really fvcked up with some really twisted 'storylines' if you can call them that. Until you run it you really have no idea tbh they're the sort of dreams that make you wonder which part of your mind they even came from because they're so out of the ordinary and strange. They're more like nightmares tbh...the kind you used to get when you're little.

So far the dreams are positive but I think the longer you run it the more dark and creepy they get in my experience.

I'm actually seriously thinking of dropping the tren in a week or so tbh. I'm short of breath even while I'm typing this it's like there's not enough oxygen in the room. Plus it's not good for my hair and I'm getting scared I'll have a shiny head after this is done lol

So I'll have about 4ml of the tren left over but I hate to just throw it in the bin... :whistling: *cough*

@kingdale you can't beat tren for strength it's what i always turn to when I need to get stronger asap. Dbol comes a close second.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

I think im going to use it when i cut for summer to attempt to keep as much strength as possible well i cut. Really not looking forward to having time off after this cycle :'(


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

kingdale said:


> I think im going to use it when i cut for summer to attempt to keep as much strength as possible well i cut. Really not looking forward to having time off after this cycle :'(


I think tren was made for cutting mate it'll serve you well.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

anabolik said:


> It's hard to say because I tend to forget them pretty much straight away but they are very vivid and real while they last. Last time I ran tren the dreams got really fvcked up with some really twisted 'storylines' if you can call them that. Until you run it you really have no idea tbh they're the sort of dreams that make you wonder which part of your mind they even came from because they're so out of the ordinary and strange. They're more like nightmares tbh...the kind you used to get when you're little.
> 
> So far the dreams are positive but I think the longer you run it the more dark and creepy they get in my experience.
> 
> ...


4ml? Just get it in you mate :thumb:

Just try not to kill anyone, unless its just in a dream!


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

So your just gonna bosh the 4ml in one then cut the cycle short...lol

I see what your doing there:thumb:


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I dunno yet I'm still undecided...I only jabbed 0.3ml yesterday rather than the usual 0.5ml as I'm getting sick of the breathlessness.

I may continue with 0.3ml e3d until it's finished it's just the hair loss that worries me. I'm only a few weeks in and I'm pretty sure it's thinning on top already...I don't have much hair left and I want to keep what little I have if possible. Don't ask me why I bought the tren in the first place lmao I make spur of the moment decisions that I often regret.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea we are in the same boat obvs in regards to Hairloss and you wouldn't catch me anywhere near that ****

How much test you on?

I like the idea of short prop like esters as if it gets bad then it's out of system quickly


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Yea we are in the same boat obvs in regards to Hairloss and you wouldn't catch me anywhere near that ****
> 
> How much test you on?
> 
> I like the idea of short prop like esters as if it gets bad then it's out of system quickly


I'm running about 400mg test pw but I'm also taking dutasteride and finasteride alongside it. May be a bit pointless considering I'm running tren though but I'm hoping it will help minimise any hair loss.

You're better off with the short esters if you're trying a new compound like tren. For some people the sides are horrendous but for the lucky ones sides can be minimal. If it all gets too much you can pull the plug quickly and normalise in a few days.

Best sticking to test only on your first cycle mate. Then maybe try deca at a later point if you feel the need to change it up.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

This is second injectable cycle, first was test and eq.

I'm going for test prop and npp this time round incase my hair falls out overnight and I need to get it out my system quick styles


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> This is second injectable cycle, first was test and eq.
> 
> I'm going for test prop and npp this time round incase my hair falls out overnight and I need to get it out my system quick styles


What dose did you run the eq at? Did you notice any shedding on the cycle?

My lass got in touch with me again last night...still denying everything 

Women can be such a headfvck.


----------



## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Anabolic have you been training for long?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

The Vegetarian said:


> Anabolic have you been training for long?


Been training for just over 3 years now mate. Tbh I'm disappointed in how far I've come in that time, my lifts are nowhere near where they should be.

I think it all went wrong once I stopped strength training and focused on bodybuilding style programs. My body seems to respond better to lower reps.


----------



## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Please do not take offence at this, but your weights are very low. When I saw your bench press I assumed you meant each side of the barbell.

Have you considered laying off the gear for a while and concentrating on your lifts instead?

Perhaps go back on the gear in a couple of years time.

I am not insulting you or criticizing what you have achieved but in my opinion you are not yet ready for gear.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

anabolik said:


> What dose did you run the eq at? Did you notice any shedding on the cycle?
> 
> My lass got in touch with me again last night...still denying everything
> 
> Women can be such a headfvck.


Aagh really? what you gonna do mate? Forget it emotionally and get your willy wet???

I run the eq at 500 and the test at 400 mate, no shedding i would say it made my temples a touch worse

But around 6 months ago i got some wildcat tbol. I took it for 3 weeks at 40mg alongside using Revita shampoo. My hair got really course in testure and started shedding and i have yet been able to stem the flow.

Its like my hair has decided enough is enough and its time to leave, ive had a decent head of hair for 31 years but i dont think it will reach 32 now its that bad


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

The Vegetarian said:


> Please do not take offence at this, but your weights are very low. When I saw your bench press I assumed you meant each side of the barbell.
> 
> Have you considered laying off the gear for a while and concentrating on your lifts instead?
> 
> ...


Fck me dont ask me about my lifts then:lol:


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

The Vegetarian said:


> Please do not take offence at this, but your weights are very low. When I saw your bench press I assumed you meant each side of the barbell.
> 
> Have you considered laying off the gear for a while and concentrating on your lifts instead?
> 
> ...


Well it's a bit late for that lmao

I've been on for most of the time I've been training so I'm now at a point where I feel if I don't get my lifts up to a half decent level before I come off then it will have all been for nothing. I can't just come off the gear whilst my lifts are still so low...after all if I can't get them up with gear how the hell am i gonna do it without?

I totally understand what you're saying though and no offence has been taken 

Bench and pressing movement in general have always been slow to improve for me though. I got my dead up to 210kg for 3 reps and squat 165kg for 5 I think. That was before my back went ping.

I'm going to hammer it until i get my bench up to 120kg for reps then I'll feel ready to come off. I appreciate your advice though and if I hadn't already been on aas for so long I would take it and come off but I feel like it's all or nothing now.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Aagh really? what you gonna do mate? Forget it emotionally and get your willy wet???
> 
> I run the eq at 500 and the test at 400 mate, no shedding i would say it made my temples a touch worse
> 
> ...


Yea that's exactly what I'm thinking. Can't do with the head games and stuff but I don't want to give up the poon :lol:

I've told her to ring me tonight so we can clear things up.

Fvck mate is your hair really dropping out that fast? It usually takes a few years to show noticeable differences in density especially if you've got to 31 with it being fine.

Have you thought about running fina whilst off cycle to try and stop it? 1mg ed should work well.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

anabolik said:


> Well it's a bit late for that lmao
> 
> I've been on for most of the time I've been training so I'm now at a point where I feel if I don't get my lifts up to a half decent level before I come off then it will have all been for nothing. I can't just come off the gear whilst my lifts are still so low...after all if I can't get them up with gear how the hell am i gonna do it without?
> 
> ...


Bit of a situation to be in there mate


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

anabolik said:


> Yea that's exactly what I'm thinking. Can't do with the head games and stuff but I don't want to give up the poon :lol:
> 
> I've told her to ring me tonight so we can clear things up.
> 
> ...


Yea its just the potentila sides scare the fck out of me

I spoke to ahair transplnt consultant who advised me to use it but he is from belgium(not that that makes a difference lol)

But yea i have considered it long and hard. Ive got to 31 with it thin on top and a little receded at the temples but never like this

I have read that hairs that fall have two types.

The ones with a white head on isnt growing back but ones without a white head have snapped down the shaft(abit like my banjo string after my ex mrs just loved it up the bum ALL THE BLOODY TIME lol)

I have a mix of the two, im still not sure weather the tbol i had was dbol cos i blew up really big in no time or it was the shampoo


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Yea its just the potentila sides scare the fck out of me
> 
> I spoke to ahair transplnt consultant who advised me to use it but he is from belgium(not that that makes a difference lol)
> 
> ...


I think the sides are wayyy overplayed tbh I've not noticed any side effects since I've been taking it. At any rate if you do experience sides they should go once you stop taking it. It's basically the same as using an aromatase inhibitor, it only inhibits the conversion into estrogen for as long as you're taking the drug but once you stop everything returns to normal. It's the same process for fina and the conversion to DHT.

I know there are support groups out there for guys who've used it and say it's made them impotent but imo I wouldn't give much notice to that. Impotence can be cause by many different factors one of the main ones being psychological. I'm willing to believe you can lose libido and become impotent while using fina but I bet once that's happened then it's implanted in your mind and even the return of your normal dht levels can mask what your mind is telling you. I'm not sure I'm making sense here lol

Basically all the scientific evidence shows that you'll be fine if you experience side effects once you stop taking it you WILL return to normal. There is proof of this. But the mind is a tricky thing and I'm betting some guys will struggle to return to normal mentally after experiencing impotence even though physically everything is ok.

Plus there's the fact the they all congregate on support forum whining about how much they've been fvcked over by the drug it's a breeding ground for paranoid thoughts. Once you're so certain you've been permanently fvcked by the drug there's not much anyone else can do to sort it as the mind is a very powerful thing. And they've got 100's of other guys there telling them the same thing it's like a self-reinforcing belief.

End rant


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

How long does it stay in your system for do you know?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> How long does it stay in your system for do you know?


Fina has a very short half life so should be out of your system within about 24hrs. May take a few days to a week before your hormone levels return to normal.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

The issue that I got is that my mrs wants to get preggers and I've heard horror story's whilst fina is on your system

Again aus(?) says about 31 days to clear?

Also as I'm using short esters I was gonna maybe use test and fina together than have 4 week blast npp and drop the fina then back on test and fina


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

U-j


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> The issue that I got is that my mrs wants to get preggers and I've heard horror story's whilst fina is on your system
> 
> Again aus(?) says about 31 days to clear?
> 
> Also as I'm using short esters I was gonna maybe use test and fina together than have 4 week blast npp and drop the fina then back on test and fina


Well the half-life of fina is 6-8 hours so the drug itself should be pretty muchout of your system within 24hrs. However, your DHT levels will take a bit longer to return to normal levels. It could take a week or 2 for this to happen.

What exactly are you worried about with regards to the fina and your excpected pregnancy? I know that low DHT can cause poor sperm motility but as long as you don't let your mrs come into contact with the actual tabs themselves then there should be no problem afaik.

The fact that you have finasteride in your system shouldn't affect the unborn baby or anything like that. Maybe slight less chance of conceiving but not much else.

I'm assuming you're talking about trying for a baby after the cycle? Trying to conceive while cycling aas wouldn't be the best idea. Possible but not ideal.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm worried about birth defects I read about

Yea I think I'm shut down abit from my last PH cycle


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Like I said birth defects are only a problem if pregnant women come into physical contact with the pills themselves. The fact you're taking it shouldn't have any influence on birth defects.

Why not try for the baby before and after the cycle when you're not taking the fina? You'll have more chance of conceiving anyway with more DHT in your system. Then you can always start taking it again once she's pregnant. But if you're going to take it while she's preggers make sure you don't split or break the tabs as this will get tiny particles of fina on your clothes etc. which she may end up absorbing somehow...you're probably best just not taking it tbh until the baby is born to be on the safe side.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ill be bald by then lol


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Ill be bald by then lol


pmsl then just stop worrying and start the fina mate but be careful once she's pregnant as I said don't let her come into contact with the tabs and you'll be fine.

It all depends on how much you value your hair at the end of the day. I think the sides from fina are way overhyped if I were you I'd be on it like a car bonnet.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Quite clearly


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Another reason I want to know half life is my npp use

Plus in not that bothered about my hair it's what's underneath it is the problrm


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Another reason I want to know half life is my npp use
> 
> Plus in not that bothered about my hair it's what's underneath it is the problrm


Well imo you'd be better off sticking with either npp plus low test or just high test with fina.. Chopping and changing it all half way through like you're talking about is going to make it difficult to judge what's going to happen with regards to hair loss and the fina interacting with the nandrolone etc.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea your right.

I have another condition which is even more of a pain

And ultimately I should be concentrating on limiting Hairloss so it doesn't look bad


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Yea your right.
> 
> I have another condition which is even more of a pain
> 
> And ultimately I should be concentrating on limiting Hairloss so it doesn't look bad


What condition are you talking about mate? Do you have a funny shaped head? lol mine doesn't exactly suit the shaved look but I've been rocking it for years i don't give a fvck how it looks tbh...I just don't want the shinyness!


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ha ha funny fcker lol

No my head is a good shape for slap head ness I suit the shaved head look

But I have a condition called cvg and my test eq cycle made it worse.

May have to go down the scalp reduction route in future


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

You ever been on hairlossfromsteroids.com


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Ha ha funny fcker lol
> 
> No my head is a good shape for slap head ness I suit the shaved head look
> 
> ...


That's sh1tty I see what you mean. I'm surprised you're even considering aas if you're that concerned about how you'll look with a shaved head with your condition.

Best to stick to very short cycles then get it in and out of your system as quick as possible.

Just had a look on that website not too sure what's going on there. Is the guy trying to sell his own products or something?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Todays workout:

Bench Press 90kgx3x5

Yates Row 100kgx3x5

Chinups 15kgx1x8

Again didn't have time to do leg press as the gym was closing ffs. I need to get my ar5e in gear and get to the gym earlier or my legs are going to suffer.

Felt very strong on the bench, I don't think it'll be a problem getting to 110kg in a few weeks time. Probably won't happen before the new year but early january I should have it


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

No the reason why i asked is because basically everything you have written about fina and test is what he has wrtten on his website

The problem is i dont know what coursed it to get worse it could be one of test,eq,pmag,adex,nolva,clomid or hcg or it could jst be the cycle on general or even my age


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

How many cals you boshing back


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> No the reason why i asked is because basically everything you have written about fina and test is what he has wrtten on his website
> 
> The problem is i dont know what coursed it to get worse it could be one of test,eq,pmag,adex,nolva,clomid or hcg or it could jst be the cycle on general or even my age


Well it was probably a combination of the test and eq. Running test without fina is a bad idea if you suffer from hair loss and the eq isn't exactly hair safe either.

All you can do is damage control really by limiting the amount of DHT as much as possible by taking 5mg fina ed with your test. you will probably still lose some hair while running your course but you can limit the amount lost significantly.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Fvck knows how many cals mate lol atm I'm struggling to get my 5 meals in I'm just trying to force as much as I can in my face.

I try to get 4000 cals in (5x800 cals) but I may be over or slightly under right now. Bought a big jar of peanut butter yesterday and have been grazing on that in between meals to bump those cals up.

Full fat milk helps a lot too.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Had to rush through the workout again today. Really need to get my ar5e in gear and get there earlier.

Military Press 72.5kgx2x5

Pulldowns full stackx2x5 

No time for dips this time ffs but at least my lifts are still going up. Only had time to do 2 working sets rather than the usual 3 as well.

Technically I've already got a pb on mil press as before I was only doing it for 1 set of 5 while doing the madcow routine a while back.

Still finding it hard to get all my food down. Been proper sh1t this weekend too. Spent saturday and sunday at my gf's house and only had a little pizza and a few slices of toast the whole time I was there lol along with 3 cans of stella but that doesn't count :ban:

Thank God I'm on tren I'm guessing that's the only thing ironing out all my mistakes in the food department right now.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

So it's your gf again now is it ???????

Lol


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> So it's your gf again now is it ???????
> 
> Lol


FFS lol I knew someone would pick me up on that...she explained what happened and I sort of believe her but I'm not letting myself get too involved again until I feel I can really trust her again. Maybe I'm just a soft cnut but I find it hard to just turn off my feelings towards her completely. Every time we break up she ends up texting me saying how she misses me and I end up taking her back.

Maybe I'm a sucker i don't know lol

She's fvcking gorgeous though and has a banging body for her age so that may have an effect on my judgement :/


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

That may cloud your judgement yea lol


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I love the "every time we break up" bit too lol

You know from my pms that I'm an unforgiving cvnt, fair play to you because I don't think I could accept it


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> I love the "every time we break up" bit too lol
> 
> You know from my pms that I'm an unforgiving cvnt, fair play to you because I don't think I could accept it


Haha yea I know mate maybe I'm just a soft cnut but I believe her. It's not like I found her sucking another fella's wang or anything so I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt she hasn't actually done anything.

Doesn't mean the doubt has been removed from my mind though...it'll always be there hovering waiting to swoop in and say "I told u so u stupid pr**k" but until then ignorance is bliss.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Christ. There are more red flags there, than at at a man utd match.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Christ. There are more red flags there, than at at a man utd match.


Nothing is ever black and white mate though we all like to think so. I know exactly what I'm doing.

Maybe I'll be starting a new thread in the near future 'I'm a stupid cnut why did I believe her' but until then I'm going to go with the flow. You can neg me if it turns out that way


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

it just because we care, man. Just because we care about you


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

anabolik said:


> Nothing is ever black and white mate though we all like to think so. I know exactly what I'm doing.
> 
> Maybe I'll be starting a new thread in the near future 'I'm a stupid cnut why did I believe her' but until then I'm going to go with the flow. You can neg me if it turns out that way


I do have to admire your laid back way of thinking

Again im the sort of cvnt that would get back with her, and then ruin it on purpose :sad:


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> it just because we care, man. Just because we care about you


I appreciate it mate I really do but only I can make the choice. I may regret it, I may not we'll have to see...but I do believe in giving people another chance.

@ash1981 I've always been pretty laid back and try not to take things too seriously I can't help it. Everyone fvcks up at some point it's inevitable and I know I'm far from perfect! For the first few months of seeing her my libido was shot to sh1t from a long cut and I couldn't get it up to shag her but she stayed by me being very patient lol not many women would do that. I think i owe her the benefit of the doubt tbh.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Today's workout:

Bench Press 92.5kgx3x5

Yates row 102.5kgx1x5

Chinups 20kgx1x6

Don't ask me where the leg exercises are I know I'm slacking big time. Still making it to the gym with only just enough time to get my upper body workout in.

I'm so terrible with time managemant it's ridiculous!


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ha yea and while your libido is up then make the most of it


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice chins work there blue


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm trying to make the most of it but it's hard only seeing eachother once a week. Plus her son is usually there so we can't go wild or it might scar the poor kid for life pmsl

Yea chins are a favourite exercise of mine. Used to be able to do 35kgx5 and that was when I was carrying more fat before my epic cut :/ the body is a weird thing!

Actually I bet I could probably still get around those reps but only if I was fresh with no back/bi work beforehand. I always used to do my chins first thing on back day.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Strong rows mate


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Strong rows mate


Thanks mate but they're getting pretty hard already...I may have to reset the weight back 10kg or so in a weeks time. I'm getting the reps but the last 1 or 2 are really slow and my form is slipping slightly. Would be nice to get to 110kg before that though we'll have to see.


----------



## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

Never done this before so ignore my stupidity.... When you say:

4x5, 1x3, 1x8

Is that 4x5 week 1, 1x3 week 2, 1x8 week 3?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I e struggled with rows. But something I've started doing is having the starting position on boxes.

It takes the strain off the lower back and has got me an extra 5kg and less issues on other lifts.

Maybe give that a go


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

GeordieSteve said:


> Never done this before so ignore my stupidity.... When you say:
> 
> 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
> 
> Is that 4x5 week 1, 1x3 week 2, 1x8 week 3?


No mate it means rather than the usual 5x5 you do the first 4 sets of 5 as normal then you do the final top set to only 3 reps and then a dropset of 8 reps at your 3rd set weight. The 5 sets of 5 are done ramping up to 1 top set of 5 rather than the usual 5 sets of 5 at the same weight after warmups as you normally see in 5x5 routines.

Hope that explains it.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> I e struggled with rows. But something I've started doing is having the starting position on boxes.
> 
> It takes the strain off the lower back and has got me an extra 5kg and less issues on other lifts.
> 
> Maybe give that a go


Sort of like rack pulls you mean? I may give it a go but not sure if the stands my gym has are at the right level. I'll have to have a look.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Thought I'd make the effort and post a recent update pic. It isn't the best as it was taken in natural light this morning in my living room...



My abs are still there you just can't see them honest! :tongue:


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ha

You've cut that out a magazine lol


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Ha
> 
> You've cut that out a magazine lol


fpmsl

Living room is in a right state and I didn't want to look like a scruffy bastard! :lol:


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea yea

Lol


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Had to improvise today as a group of d1cks were hogging the squat rack for about 50 mins so for military press had to clean it off the floor before each set and couldn't see my form properly in the mirror...basically fvcked my sets up and I'm sure I would've gotten all 3 if it wasn't for this. Plus I twinged my back getting the last rep of the first set up by bending back too far. Made me realise just how important it is having a mirror right in front of you when doing mil press to keep everything tight.

Anyway enough with the excuses lol

Today's workout:

Military Press 75kgx1x5 1x3 60kgx1x8

Pulldowns full stack+2.5kgx1x5 2x4

Tricep Dips 45kgx1x6

Leg Press 260kgx1x9

Got all my reps in on the pulldowns but didn't count them officially as the last rep of the last 2 sets didn't come all the way down. Not sure if I'll up the weight next time or not I'll have to think about it.

Military press will be going up next workout.

Feel totally drained after that. Was going to do ab work to finish off but after the leg press I was mullered. I just hobbled out of the gym and ate my banana feeling satisfied with my workout.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

mg:Leg workmg:


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> mg:Leg workmg:


haha well I had no excuse today as I got to the gym in plenty of time before closing. Not looking forward to the doms tomorrow :/

I did think about trying squats but I don't want to fvck my lower back/hips up again. Maybe after new year I might start doing 20 rep squats with 120kg or so to ease back into it.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Well i had another weekend of eating absolutely fvck all due to being at the gfs house. Probably hit about 2000 sh1t cals on saturday and sunday with about 150g protein...strangely though it doesn't seem to have impacted my progress. Thanks god for drugs lol

Had a good workout today form was pretty tight on everything even the rows.

Bench Press 95kgx3x5

Yates rows 105kgx3x5

Lunges 70kgx1x20

Chinups 20kgx1x7, bwx5

Hanging Leg Raises 1xfailure

Bench still feels quite light but I'm restraining myself from adding more than 2.5kg each workout because i know it will affect my progression.

The only thing i don't really like about working out like this compared to a split routine is the fact I don't leave each session with a super pump in the muscles I worked. I'll switch back over to my split routine when my gains start stalling on this program but I'm going to milk this for a bit as my progress is just getting interesting.


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm stopping the tren...still have about a 3rd of the vial left but it's got to go. Was absolutely knackered this weekend after about 20 minutes of hitting it, fvcking sweat pouring off me and wheezing it's not good lol

Plus she thinks I stopped all gear a couple months ago so she may start getting suspicious 

Will be nice to get some decent sleep too tbh.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Why about your bonce?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Why about your bonce?


Yea partly I have noticed my hair seems a bit thinner on top since starting it but it's also affecting my performance in the sack too much because I just can't get the oxygen. Tren really fvcks up my breathing even just sitting down doing nothing I can struggle to breathe it's not a nice feeling.

I'm not getting great sleep either. End up twitching while nodding off too like a full body jerk/spasm pmsl

From now on it's just test and deca for me.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Not with the fina I hope though


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

No mate I've even stopped taking my fina and dutastaride last week coz it's effecting my libido while running tren. Having low DHT while running tren or deca is not a good idea if you value your sex life


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Got a question for ya

If you pin 500 test e weekly that means you on 500 test per week obvs

So if you pin 0.5ml of 100mg test p x 3 a week that means your on 150mg test per week?

And test is test right?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Got a question for ya
> 
> If you pin 500 test e weekly that means you on 500 test per week obvs
> 
> ...


Yes mate that is correct.

Some people would have you believe that prop will not cause as much bloat as a longer ester but that is total bro-science. Like you said test is test.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

So pinning essentially 150mg of test per week should be not bad on the bonce line?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> So pinning essentially 150mg of test per week should be not bad on the bonce line?


It's probably as good as you're going to get without running fina alongside. I assume you're going to be running deca as well and the test is just to keep mood and libido up correct?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea basically mate


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Sounds like a good plan 

I'll be doing something very similar for my next cycle. Have not run deca yet so should be interesting. Some people even rate it higher than tren for size gains!


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm thinking npp instead of deca for in and out quickly

All so I need to keep an eye on my scalp condition


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> I'm thinking npp instead of deca for in and out quickly
> 
> All so I need to keep an eye on my scalp condition


Good idea of you can get npp go for it.

I'd also suggest using minoxidil too if you're not already. Every little bit helps.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Using nizoral every day but makes my hair very brittle and a lot of dandruff looking white bits

But I genuinely think its me not washing the shampoo out my hair for not wanting it too all fall out


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

No way mate you're not supposed to use it every day! Once or twice a week max is all you need. Any more than that and you risk making your hair more brittle and more likely to break and fall out...the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve.

Get on the minoxidil (pm me if you want a cheap source) and drop the nizoral or at least cut it down to a couple times a week at most.

Personally I think nizoral does nothing to fight mpb. The only products scientifically proven to slow/stop hair loss are minoxidil and finasteride/dutasteride. Everything else (saw palmetto, nizoral etc.) is just broscience and conjecture.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

F U C K


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

With the npp I may do a blast in it for 4 weeks then off it back on the fina with test only and keep alternating.

That way I only run the test without fina for 4 weeks at a time


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Couple of pics from today just before getting my tan on


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Today's workout:

Military Press 77.5kgx1x5, 1x2, 50kgx1x7

Pulldowns full stack+5kgx3x5 

Tricep Dips 45kgx1x8  bodyweightx1x10

Felt very proud of myself after today's session. Got a pb on dips and military press and pulldowns are still going up so all is well.

Only managed 1 set of 5 on military press and got 2 reps on the second set (felt like my upper back was gonna snap lol) so dropped the weight to 50kg for the 3rd and repped it out. Thought that might've fatigued my tris for the dips but I still got 8 reps when I was only going for 7. Looks like I'll be dipping 50kg for 8 reps in a week or 2 hahaha feels good man!

Can't believe how well things are going seeing as for the past couple weeks my diet has gone to absolute ****. I'm probably only getting in just over 3000 cals a day and about 200g protein. I should be having 5 big meals a day (including shakes) but can only manage 3 or 4 at a stretch....been having a massive plate of chips with tom sauce as a meal the past few days pmsl it's all I can bring myself to cook sometimes.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Lookin good mate, nice to see you havent cut someone out of a magazine this time:lol:

That fina link you sent me you said not to spend over £15 wasnt it? but you can order as many times as you want?

Is that right?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Lookin good mate, nice to see you havent cut someone out of a magazine this time:lol:
> 
> That fina link you sent me you said not to spend over £15 wasnt it? but you can order as many times as you want?
> 
> Is that right?


Was proper sh1t lighting in there for posing but thanks lol

Yea that's right mate you can place as many orders as you want and they'll send them all out separately. As long as each order isn't over £15 you pay no charges.

Delivery is free too


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Cool mate how much fina do you think i need each day on 150mg test p each week?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Cool mate how much fina do you think i need each day on 150mg test p each week?


Not much as that's barely above your natural test levels anyway. 1mg would be fine.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Today's workout:

Bench Press 97.5kgx3x5

Yates Rows 107.5kgx2x5

Chinups 20kgx1x8, dropset bwx6

Chins felt really easy was worried i wouldn't hit 8 this time but pumped em out no problem. I'll up the weight to 25kg next time.

Only had time to do 2 sets of the rows however but form is staying remarkably tight tho the reps are going very slowly. As long as I'm hitting my stomach with the bar I'm counting them 

I need to start using the gym changing rooms again so I can get some good pics on here. Don't know what it is but I always look better in their mirrors wether I'm pumped or not.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Was it something I said? lol where the fvck has everyone gone?

Ah well I'll carry on regardless.

Today's workout:

Military Press 70kgx2x5, 60kgx1x7

Pulldowns 7 platesx3x6

Tricep Dips 50kgx1x6 

Decided to deload on my press and pulldowns and go up from 6-8 reps each workout then when I reach 8 I'll up the weight and start again at 6 reps. Might increase the reps on pulldowns to 8-10 not sure yet.

Got my 50kg dips in which I'm proper chuffed with. I'm sure I could get 60kg for around 5 or 6 reps if I didn't have to do military press beforehand.

Had yet another ****e weekend must have hit about 2000-2500 cals for the past 4 days. I've just literally been laying in bed since saturday night to monday evening...ate a few slices of cake, a small pizza and a couple sandwiches pmsl

Doesn't help that she's a veggie so there's fvck all meat at her house. Might have to start taking some protein powder round at this rate.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Great dipping you insecure ***


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Sounds like you and her are going well son


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Great dipping you insecure ***


Thanks you big cnut


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Sounds like you and her are going well son


Yea mate seems to be so far. Though the other night when I got back from hers we were txting talking about what we were doing next weekend and she randomly got a txt from me that I'd sent about 2 weeks ago. Because it was out of context she asked me what I was on about then I told her I didn't know what she was talking about then she accused me of txting some other lass and thought I sent her the txt by mistake...she proper went mental pmsl and I had a job convincing her it was just a txt I'd sent to her 2 weeks ago and my network had obviously fvcked up and got it lost in the system or something.

Orange trying to screw up my relationship fvck you! lol


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Missed my last update due to me being a lazy cnut so I'll post it here along with today's.

Thursday's workout:

Bench Press 100kgx1x5, dropset 60kgx13

Yates Rows 110kgx1x5, dropset 60kgx15

Chinups 25kgx1x6, dropset bwx5

Today's workout:

Seated DB Press 30kgx1x8, dropset 20kgx10

Pulldowns 7 platesx8, dropset 3 platesx8

Tricep Dips 50kgx1x7, dropset bwx13

Fvcking smashing the dips! I may change to a different routine soon that focuses on them and put them at the start of my push day to see what I can really do on them. There's nothing like strapping a few of the biggest plates in the gym to your waist and repping them out haha same with chinups.

I'm preparing for another weekend of sh1t eating so bought a 24 pack of fish fingers lol gonna make a couple of big butties now to help recover from my session


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Training go well mate?

Got a bit of a decision to make personally in regards to fina and test


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Training go well mate?
> 
> Got a bit of a decision to make personally in regards to fina and test


Not great tbh mate just started a new job this week working 12 hr night shifts so haven't had the will or energy to go to the gym this week I'm afraid. I'm going to hammer it in a few minutes though it's been ****ing me off feeling like I'm wasting away.

Gonna have to change my routine to HIT (Dorian Yates style) in order to shorten my workouts as much as possible. Should be able to get each session down to 30 mins or less this way compared to 1hr plus before.

What decision are you pondering mate?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice mate dy looks good. Always wanted to try it but never had training partner long enough which I think you need

I'm surprised your madcow took you that long in there.,,

We're you stopping for a smoke in between sets? 

My decision was about taking fina with prop. But I've stopped the prop and just taking tbol with fina


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Nice mate dy looks good. Always wanted to try it but never had training partner long enough which I think you need
> 
> I'm surprised your madcow took you that long in there.,,
> 
> ...


haha cheeky cnut i always take about 3 mins rest between all my warm ups and working sets when doing a strength routine so that's why it takes me so long. I like to make sure I am totally recovered for each set.

Dorians HIT routine is awesome I've done it in the past with great results so should be interesting. You get insane pumps too which I've missed for a while.

I'll try get a pumped pic after this mornings workout if the changing rooms are empty...I feel a right ****** posing and taking pics of myself with other people around 

How come you're taking fina with tbol mate? As far as I'm aware tbol doesn't convert to a more androgenic form does it?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

So you gonna change the name of your journal then now ?

I've started a upper lower spilt as of today. Compounds compounds compounds is the order of the day

I need fina anyways to stop this Hairloss but on the prop I had a right itchy head

Just gonna see what this tbol is like on its own


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> So you gonna change the name of your journal then now ?
> 
> I've started a upper lower spilt as of today. Compounds compounds compounds is the order of the day
> 
> ...


No not gonna change the name there's no point really I was only doing madcow for a couple weeks then I fvcked my back so most of this journal has been a b4stardised version of starting strength anyway :/

So when are you going to start your new journal? I'd be interested to see how you get on running the tbol.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Today's workout:

Tricep Dips 60kgx3, dropset bwx12

Flat DB Bench 35kgx5, dropset 20kgx11

Lateral Raises 7.5kgx12, dropset 2.5kgx9

(lateral raises are done strict with arms straight out to the side no swinging)

Pushdowns 10 platesx13, dropset 6 platesx9

Leg Press 220kgx20 no pauses

All sets are to failure.

Legs felt like jelly after doing leg press...I could feel a cold sensation filling my quads from the 10th rep onwards was really strange but felt good lol I love that deep burn you get from high rep leg work.

I was expecting more reps on the dips tbh so might drop the weight to 50kg next time and try for 8-10 reps.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)




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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice working there bud. 60 kg is good to dip with


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ill be starting a journal in Sunday mate, me and the mrs one year anniversary.

Looking good in your pics bud

Did you write your own diet?

What meds are you currently using out of interest?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks mate was expecting more on the dips but it felt heavy as fvck was expecting more like 5 reps.

Did i writr my own diet? pmsl I don't follow any type of diet if i'm honest I just try and get as close to 250g protein in per day as possible and when bulking I eat everything I can basically. I try and stick to healthy foods where possible but I find it hard getting the cals in so tend to resort to pizzas and ice cream etc.

Cutting is a completely different story I'm strict as hell apart from my cheat day once a week where I go up to maintenance cals and eat whatever i like as long as I get the protein in.

Stopped the tren a couple weeks ago and just running test e atm. Tapering down my dose slowly in preparation for pct next year I'm on about 250mg pw currently.

Congrats on your anniversary :beer:


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm going to get 2 or 3 hours kip then go into town to do my christmas shopping...fun, fun, fun


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice got to love Xmas shopping

So what was your starting physique like?

I mean did you get cut before adding cals to bulk?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Nice got to love Xmas shopping
> 
> So what was your starting physique like?
> 
> I mean did you get cut before adding cals to bulk?


Ended up falling asleep for 8 hours pmsl ah well  it's gonna be fvcking rammed now but I've still got to go.

My starting physique was your typical skinny stoner that never moves off the sofa...you could see the outline of my ribs but I wasn't skinny fat just pretty skinny. I started a massive bulk on way too many cals (about 4000 lol) for the first few months (natty without gear) doing just handstand pushups I would do as many negatives as I could until I couldn't do anymore. Ended up being able to do a few reps before I got a barbell and dumbells and began starting strength. Started gear after about 8 months training

and haven't come off since...that was nearly 3 years ago now.

Whenever I feel my love handles getting too flabby I go on a cut and seems to hold a leaner physique each time I do a bulk. When I feel my lower back jiggling when walking dowsnstairs I know it's time to shed some flab lol

I have been up to nearly 15 stone in the past and still had a 4 pack but I didn't look too good. I just have good ab genetics i suppose so they show through even when I'm carrying a lot of fat which is good but can be deceiving.

Here is the only pic I have taken just before starting aas:


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Fair fcks bud

Go in there two footed and do it proper son, no fcking about lol

Don't you do any cardio on a bulk? Or just add it in on a cut?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Fvcking £35 for a little bottle of perfume for the gf wtf? She better appreciate it lol

Still got to get some alcohol for my sis and stepdad but tesco is just round the corner haha

No mate don't do any cardio on a bulk I find it counter-productive especially when I'm struggling to get the cals down. When I'm cutting I try for at least 2 40 min sessions a week.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Fckin £35???

I've gone well over £250, I hope she appreciates that

Hopefully get my early Xmas pressy tomorrow night...bit of brown hole 

There's so many depressing 'women trouble' threads on here at the minute

Makes me even more para

I firmly believe that you make the women want to be faithful and stay with you by being the man they want you to be.

Either that or just cheat on her more than she cheats on you


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Fckin £35???
> 
> I've gone well over £250, I hope she appreciates that
> 
> ...


I thought that was a decent amount seeing as she's not getting me anything coz she lost her job recently. I barely spend more than that on my mum.

£250? Fvck me you must be either loaded or you've got something to make up for lol  It saddens me that you have to spend that much just to get some bum action mate. My lass loves it haha but I won't rub it in :lol:

You're onto something with your philosophy about being the man they want. That's what makes a good relationship i think when each person does their best to keep the other happy. After all what more can you do?

Your other philosophy however will not get you very far pmsl that could spiral out of control very easily...plus how do you even know for sure she's cheating on you? Don't be such an insecure *** :wink:


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

My last girl would of paid me money to stick it up her bum, used to get told off for touching her fanny, no **** either,...I miss her 

But yea my girl lets me do it from time to time, only on special occasions though. She doesn't like it and says no other bloke had been allowed to stick it up there so I'm happy about that

And I'm not being an insecure *** you big insecure *** I'm simply stating that you could so it that way

I can't see my mrs goes out and cheats on me to be honest, but like everyone else says if she's has then she has and I'm never gonna know

This tbol is good I think, but bit wary cos I can't Find a sodding picture of the same lab to compare with

How's the nightshift?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> My last girl would of paid me money to stick it up her bum, used to get told off for touching her fanny, no **** either,...I miss her
> 
> But yea my girl lets me do it from time to time, only on special occasions though. She doesn't like it and says no other bloke had been allowed to stick it up there so I'm happy about that
> 
> ...


Not sure I could enjoy myself knowing she doesn't like it tbh but maybe I'm too considerate lol as long as she lets you do it I suppose you can't feel too bad about it :thumb:

My lass likes to get proper hammered when she's out with her mates and I do worry that blokes will try it on with her and she gets in such a state that I'm not sure she'll even know what she's doing...but I try and put that out of my mind or it would drive me crazy so I just tell her to have a good time and try forget about what she might be getting up to. I do trust her but alcohol can make people do very silly things.

How much tbol you running mate and are you feeling anything off it? Strength increases etc.?

Nightshift is draining but I finish early friday morning and start again 11am on monday alternating day and night shifts so I get a long weekend which is how I prefer it. Haven't worked for about a year so it's a bit of a shock to the system lol


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I didnt realise that you were out of work bud, fair ****s for getting one dude, that pct wont pay for itself(if you ever come off that is:laugh: :tongue: :lol: )

Ill put up with the lack of bum fun, as i am a dirty beast and i never shy away from putting my tongue up there or shoving her foot in my mouth But just not at the moment as she has ahd the chronic shits these last 3 days

Yea i agree about when she goes out, its hard but you got to give them the room cos if you pester them with paranoid thoughts i would say they are more likely to do something, come across like you dont give a **** and they will want you more. Do you genuinely think that your mrs does stuff when she is out, cos deep down i dont think mine does.

When we argue she says stuff like she has never felt feelings like this before and that no one will ever love me as much as she does. Add that to the fact that she wants to get married,have a baba and buy a house together should say to me that shes faithful and right at this minute in our lives im all she wants

Tbol im running 30mg at the minute, i know its a low dose but i wanna see how my body responds to it(hair and scalp condition) then im gonna bump it to maybe 60mg. Ive felt a strength increase already though, think its a good brand tbol. Can get JDL now.

Im still unsure whether to keep going with the prop, ive started fina at 1.25mg ed so see if i can stem this ****ing flow of hairloss.

I have 24 weeks until i go to cyprus and the goal is to look my best body and hair wise for it, so again unsure how long to bulk/cut for. After cyprus i think that i will be on a life long bulk

I realise that i cant stay on tbol for the whole 24 weeks but im alos unsure how to run the aas from no until june. I currently have tbol,prop and npp here. But i def want to use tbol on my cut nearer the time

You out tonight then Bolik?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> I didnt realise that you were out of work bud, fair ****s for getting one dude, that pct wont pay for itself(if you ever come off that is:laugh: :tongue: :lol: )
> 
> Ill put up with the lack of bum fun, as i am a dirty beast and i never shy away from putting my tongue up there or shoving her foot in my mouth But just not at the moment as she has ahd the chronic shits these last 3 days
> 
> ...


Yea I wouldn't be sticking my tongue up there if she's got the liquid sh1ts fvck that for a laugh! Might put you off forever haha

Tbh I don't know if she does anything when she's out with her mates but from the way she talks to me and tells me how much she loves me I find it hard to believe she could be like that and then go fvcking around...but then there's always that little niggling doubt at the back of your mind I don't think it will ever go. She's a pretty lass and very vulnerable when drunk so it worries me as i know how guys will take advantage of a woman like that, they see her as an easy target.

She's been talking about kids lately and the fact she thinks she's too old to give me one...she told me the other day how she's scared how strong her feelings are for me coz she thinks I might end up leaving her because I want to start a family one day. I tell her the last thing on my mind is children but not sure if she believes me.

How are you finding your libido on the tbol alone? If it starts dropping too low you can always start back on a low dose of prop to get things working again. btw there's nothing wrong with running tbol for 24 weeks if you want to. there's no evidence to suggest running orals for extended periods of time is damaging to your health over injectables.

Not out tonight mate. Was supposed to be meeting the gf in town after she's been to the theatre with her mum but she told me she's staying at her mums tonight instead of heading back home so looks like I'm staying in on my own  got a couple cans of lager and will probably watch a film or something...rock on pmsl

What you up to tonight?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

That is def rock n roll dude?.

I'm just at home with the mrs, she's ill like I said so I'm laying doctor Ash 

My libido is great but I've still got some test in me even on the fina

Gym tomoz as can't make it down there on Monday

I don't think your mrs is up to no good bud tbh. Just like I don't think mine is. And again I don't think the small doubt in our minds will go.

The best way to play is for her to be the insecure one, that way you know your the only one on her mind all the time

I really don't know what to do with my aas. I wanna use it but I'm worried more about my scalp condition than Hairloss

I know one thing though I'm gonna bump my cals up like a bitch for the next 12 weeks at least

I do love tbol from my limited aas use

Ps. You haven't asked me how I am able to swear in my posts?!?!?!


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Think I've asked you before but what you think of tbol as the test part of the cycle and npp as the androgenic part of the cycle?

Bad one?


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> That is def rock n roll dude?.
> 
> I'm just at home with the mrs, she's ill like I said so I'm laying doctor Ash
> 
> ...


Same here I'll be hitting the gym tomorrow for a back session as my gym membership runs out the day after and I won't be renewing it coz I'm moving out of my mates places and into my new house  So I'll have to find a new gym for the new year nearer to where I'll be. Staying at my mums for a bit over christmas and will take a little break from the gym for about a week so need to proper hammer it tomorrow.

Yea you're probably right about us just being paranoid. If there's no evidence there then there's no real reason to get worked up about something that's most likely just in our heads. I'm sure she is the same when it comes to me going out with a feew mates on the p1ss as she tends to send me txts all bloody night telling me how much she loves me haha probably hoping to guilt me into not cheating. It's sweet really.

If you're running fina then you may as well be running some test alongside your tbol imo mate, after all that's what it was made for. But then again if you're that worried about your scalp thing you shouldn't really be using any aas at all. Are the small gains you are making from a bit of tbol and npp going to be worth accelerating your condition? Only you can make that call.

You're right to up your cals if you want to get the most out of your cycle, aas work best in an environment of high calories and you don't want to look back and wish you'd done more.

I did wonder how you were swearing in your posts but I know there are little ways round it tho I don't know how to do any of them  care to share your secret?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Think I've asked you before but what you think of tbol as the test part of the cycle and npp as the androgenic part of the cycle?
> 
> Bad one?


I personally think when people say 'I'm using so and so as the anabolic part of my cycle and so and so as the androgenic part' it's a load of sh1te. All aas are anabolic and androgenic to some degree and all will work well given sufficient dosages alongside hard training and a good diet.

Tbol with npp would probably work well but without any test in there don't expect to be having much sexy time with your girl...mr. floppy will likely be paying you a visit.

I told you before my recommendation for npp. Run a very small amount of test alongside your npp without fina. That's your best bet all round considering everything (libido, hair loss, gains etc.)


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I've started if a 3 days ago. I got a tablet splitter and I'm spilling the tabs into 4 pieces and using 1.25 each day.

I still haven't received my Kirkland hair lotion from that site you linked me up with, and I order it in the same day as fina

My last cycle dec made my scalp worse but I was using 6 different compounds I'm all, inc pct meds etc. so I don't know if using simple test with tbol will make it worse or not.

But currently my hairline is my biggest concern and I'm still shedding. I have been for about 6 months now non stop.

It's def taken a big hit on my hairline and If it continues I'd say that give it another 6 months and my crown will actually be bald with no hair rather than just very thin now

That's why I'm hoping this fina starts to work, if my hair stops falling as crazy as it sounds I may look into going back on the prop for a while.

I could do 2 ten week cycles of tbol solo and then in between for the 4 weeks run low dose prop. I've really got to see what my hair does in these next three weeks, if it stops itching and also if it stops shedding

If its doesnt then gonna just have to leave aas alone certainly until I'm bald, then I won't give a fck(maybe)


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

The minoxidil has to be shipped from America so can take a while to arrive but don't worry you'll get it. I had to email them after a couple weeks of placing my first order with them as it hadn't arrived and they told me they were waiting on a new batch to come in. If you're concerend send them an email and see what they say. I've ordered from them twice now and received my orders no problem. How long has it been since you ordered from them?

Mate if I were you I'd drop all aas and get on the fina if you want to keep your hair. You'll regret it in a years time when you've lost most of your hair in exchange for a couple pounds more muscle which can easily be lost in pct btw...but it's your choice.

You can't expect to have a good idea of what's happening to your hair in a 3 week window. Hair grows in phases and just because you shed some hair doesn't mean that it is gone forever it can also mean that it's growing new healthy hair to replace the old thinner hair.

And then there's always dutasteride to consider if you want the maximum dht-inhibiting effect. Fina can't come close when it comes to stopping hair loss.

I'm heading off to the gym to smash my back into oblivion. Will report back with the results in a bit.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea your right about the aas, your also right about the duta but that shit is strong and hangs around for ever,remember me and the mrs are trying to concieve.

Im gonna see what happens with my hair and the fina, reccomended dose is 1mg ed so gonna see what the deal is with tbol and fina(might have to ****ing do that cycle for rest of mty life, but if i see fina is working then i will add in some test and just up the fina, but all of this post baby(hopefully) so i dont have as much pressure getting her pregers

I ordered the kirkland about two weeks ago bud

How was the training?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Are you trying to conceive right now whilst you're taking fina? That sounds a bit counter-productive tbh mate having low dht is not good when trying for a baby but it's up to you.

If you ordered the minoxidil 2 weeks ago and haven't heard from them I'd send them an email and they'll let you know what the deal is. I'm sure you'll get your order though don't worry.

Training was good mate I actually did some deadlifts! Felt pretty good too I thought my back would snap instantly but felt nice and strong. I did them at the end of my workout, I did 100kg for 13 reps then 140kg for 3 then dropsetted to 100kg again for 10. Even though the weights are laughable I;m just glad I'm going to be able to have them in my routine again so they should start going up to a respectable weight again pretty soon i hope 

You have a good christmas?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea I'm on fina and trying to conceive.

With conception you only have a 7/8 day window to get preggers anyway, around the ovulation period

But yea I have fuked my libido up abit.

Training sounds good mate. I love deads, favourite exercise

Christmas was good, just got back to mine now. Just about to go and see my mum.

How was yours? Who did you spend it with?

I've still got one present to unwrap which is my favourite present


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Well I wish you good luck trying for a baby mate but as I said you're really not making it easy for yourself being shut down and running fina at the same time. You'll have basically no dht left which is the main hormone responsible for getting your sperm count up. Are you really sure the extra bit of progress you'll make on this cycle is worth maybe losing your hair and hampering your chance at conceiving?

Yea I was so pleased to be able to deadlift again it gives me hope for the future of my training...thought I was proper fvcked from my bad hip/lower back but should be ok 

Had a great time spent christmas eve with the gf and christmas day and the next few days will be spent at my mum's house. I don't see her that often so it's nice to catch up with the family. She met our lass the other day for the first time too lol they seemed to get on well.

Enjoy your pressie I'm sure you will you dirty b4stard


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Well at the minute I'm running tbol still along with the fina

Currently haven't got much libido. Had sex yesterday at about noon but haven't had it since. I did have wood this morning though

Are you saying I should stop everything to try and concieve?

Cos I'm trying to stop Hairloss at same time???


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

You can't have your cake and eat it too mate. Personally I'd pick one goal and stick with it.

Running tbol will be supressing your natural testosterone production and you're taking fina alongside it which will also be lowering your dht levels which will already be low from your lowered test. Basically the exact opposite environment you want when trying for a baby.

It is possible that you could conceive with very supressed test levels as I've heard of people being on cycle for long periods of time and still getting their mrs pregnant but it is rare. Add into that the fact you're further lowering your dht by taking fina and your chances are getting pretty low.

You need to sort out your priorities mate. Which is more important to you right now, having a baby, gaining a couple lbs in the gym or stopping your hairloss? Imo you'd be better off coming off everything for a little while while you're trying to conceive then as soon as you find out she's pregnant jump back on the meds.

Does your lass know that you're taking the fina and aas and the effect they will have?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

The effect they will have in regards to what mate?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

What I might do is up the fina dose and use the prop up and tbol so another 5 weeks.

Then do pct,Lower fina then stay natty until 8 weeks out from Hols then use tbol with hcg to cut with for Hols

What do you think?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

And have some p114 on hand whilst cutting?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> The effect they will have in regards to what mate?


In regards to how they will effect her chances of becoming pregnant.

That cycle you propose sounds fine but you do realise hcg won't help you cut right? There's a lot of bullsh1t on the net about people using it thinking it's some wonder fat loss drug but it's not true at all. If you're taking it simply to keep your balls in check then that's fine but you should be using it already. It will help you immensely when it comes to recovering from your cycle.

I assume you mean pt-141? Why would you need that on a cut? I assume for libido purposes but tbh I don't get all the hype about it I think it's way over rated. All I really get from it is a sick feeling in my stomach for a few hours somewhat like motion sickness.

If you wan to perform with low/non-existant libido you need some pge-1. That will do the trick but you have to get around sticking a needle in your nob. It doesn't hurt but the mental block can be hard to overcome...once you've done it though it's easy as pie.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

How far into nob goes the pin?

Hcg for balls only if cutting on tbol only and p114 for libido on cut

No test

No Hairloss


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

How does that stuff you put in cock work?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> How does that stuff you put in cock work?


lol you inject up to 60mg max into the side of your n0b using an insulin needle. Depending on dosage it will give you an erection for between 30 mins to 4+ hours. It's like a steel fvckin pipe. I think it's basically the same enzyme your body produces to give an erection but you're mega dosing it and so it forces it to happen wether you want it or not...it doesn't matter if you're turned on or not it will happen.

If you want I can pm you a link for a cheap source. Don't buy the branded stuff it's a huge ripoff.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Why hcg only when cutting though? What's your reasoning behind that?

You push the needle all the way in basically but the pin is only half an inch long. It sounds a lot worse than it is trust me.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

anabolik said:


> lol you inject up to 60mg max into the side of your n0b using an insulin needle. Depending on dosage it will give you an erection for between 30 mins to 4+ hours. It's like a steel fvckin pipe. I think it's basically the same enzyme your body produces to give an erection but you're mega dosing it and so it forces it to happen wether you want it or not...it doesn't matter if you're turned on or not it will happen.
> 
> If you want I can pm you a link for a cheap source. Don't buy the branded stuff it's a huge ripoff.


Yea go for it, do you have to actually stick it into your nob or just the skin?


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

anabolik said:


> Why hcg only when cutting though? What's your reasoning behind that?
> 
> You push the needle all the way in basically but the pin is only half an inch long. It sounds a lot worse than it is trust me.


No no hcg on any cycle throughout, juts saying that hcg is a must on tbol only cycle especially with fina in the mixing pot as well


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> No no hcg on any cycle throughout, juts saying that hcg is a must on tbol only cycle especially with fina in the mixing pot as well


Didn't understand this post mate lol you should be taking hcg on any aas cycle regardless of compounds used. People who say you don't need hcg on oral only cycles are full of sh1t. They will shut you down just as much as injectables.

You have to stick it into the shaft of your johnson at a 90 degree angle just like when you inject aas into your muscle. If you search around online you'll find a diagram that shows the part you're supposed to inject. Search for 'caverject instructions' and you should find it.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea that's the stuff aus and conscript use


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea that's what I was saying hcg on any cycle.

I've got 24 weeks to try and add a few lbs then lean out again. Before a wedding in napa

I'm going to do a upper lower 4 day split throughout that time

But I may do tbol straight through only. And run hcg consistently through also. Alongside the low dose fina

Maybe that wouldn't be too bad for my libido


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Mate without any test your libido will drop doing a 24 week cycle it's inevitable. But then again if you're using hcg constantly then that may be enough to keep some test production going but I'm not sure. If libido drops too much you can always add in low dose test.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea that's true.

For me it's now or never. Last Xmas I looked exactly how I do now, a while 12 months wasted

I can't afford to do that again. I need to make some changes to my physique this year

After the wedding in June I don't care what happens when It comes to how I look as long as I keep growing


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your girl mate, whats the latest? You gonna move on bud?

Ill come out with ya new years dude, you'll have to come down to Oxford though, get some filthy student pussy


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Also mate how do you apply this topic minoxidil?

Hair wet or dry and how much? It says 1ml but that's impossible to get that little amount out


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Sorry to hear about your girl mate, whats the latest? You gonna move on bud?
> 
> Ill come out with ya new years dude, you'll have to come down to Oxford though, get some filthy student pussy


Haven't even checked this thread out for a week or so sorry mate....been dealing with some sh1t lately but it all seems 'relatively' ok now lol

Thanks for the invite bud I ended up staying with my girl over new years. Had a great time with her in the end after everything was cleared up.

Only thing is now she's on at me for snoring too loud and she's not getting any sleep lmao...stayed at hers last weekend and was sent home early on monday as she was getting grumpy as fvck with me and basically told me to leave so she can get some sleep :/ any tips on stopping snoring? She said I used to be fine but the past few weeks I've got really bad andd I'm not sure what it could be...I'm gonna go on a cut and drop the weight I've gained recently (about 20lbs) and stop smoking and drinking so much when I'm with her and see if it helps.

Lost my job the other week but got another one that starts next week so i'm happy  I can move out into my new house in a week or so and get everything back on track finally...2013 should be a good year for me. Hope it is for you too mate!

About the minoxidil, you should have got a dropper with your order that is built into a cap so it just screws on the top to replace the normal cap. It has a 1ml level on it so you just suck up 1ml and drip it onto your scalp drop by drop. Apply it to dry hair and try keep it from getting wet for at least 2 hours after so it can absorb.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

After a couple weeks of ****ty sporadic workouts I'm back into things now beginning with a push session.

Today's workout:

Bench Press 90kgx8, ds 60kgx11

Seated DB Press 27.5kgx8, ds 17.5kgx5

Lateral Raises 7.5kgx8

Tricep Dips 30kgx9, ds bwx5

Was going to do a couple sets of pushdowns to finish off the tris but the gym was closing so didn't have time. Felt good to get a proper workout in after my lazy layoff though, very satisfying!

May do back tomorrow starting off with deadlifts. Need to get my core strong and thick again after going so long without squats or deads in my routine. My abs don't seem as thick as they used to be but that may be because I'm currently hairy with a little layer of fat haha we'll see when the weight comes off.

Will be starting my diet next week to drop around 20lbs. Actually can't wait, I love cutting it's so much more rewarding and simpler than bulking.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Fck me your alive

I snore like a pig mate. Sew tennis balls into your pyjamas!!!

Didn't get a nozzle with my minoxidil

Where can I get one???

And currently I am shutdown to fck, no sex drive, emotional 

I'm an idiot


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Fck me your alive
> 
> I snore like a pig mate. Sew tennis balls into your pyjamas!!!
> 
> ...


Ha yep alive and kicking! Wtf are the tennis balls for? To stop her kicking me in the plums? pmsl

Doesn't your mrs ever complain about keeping her up with it? She says I sound like I've been posessed by a demon :/

You should've got a dropper with your order...you could try a pet store and look in the fish section or if you have a hydroponics shop nearby they'll probably sell droppers. Last resort would be b&q they might have some in the gardening section not sure though.

Shut down eh?....I did tell you to run some test to keep things going! No wonder your libido is shot to sh1t running tbol alongside fina your dht will be non-existant. Shoot a bit of test prop and you'll be better very soon mate.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Yea she just nudges me in the night or even kicks me to roll over

I have elbowed her in the head twice in the same night before though


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

And not cos she was snoring, cos I just did

Ill have to look into a dropper then. The only problem is that you shed before you start to see an improvement and some people don't see an improvement

I think for me my aas days are gone. I look good with a shaved head so Im not too fussed about losing my hair

My biggest problem is my scalp condition that I have and how it will lol once I'm bald

It's a scary thought and one that has had me in tears a lot over the last couple of days, I'm not afraid to admit it


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spectral-UHP-Purity-Minoxidil-Solution-Regrowth/dp/B003E6HMY4/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

What you reckon, cheap arent they


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Yea she just nudges me in the night or even kicks me to roll over
> 
> I have elbowed her in the head twice in the same night before though


Haha yea I have hit/elbowed the gf on the head when I have my weird spasms when drifting off before. I can't help but laugh when it happens :lol:


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> And not cos she was snoring, cos I just did
> 
> Ill have to look into a dropper then. The only problem is that you shed before you start to see an improvement and some people don't see an improvement
> 
> ...


I think it would be a wise decision in your circumstance to stop aas mate. I'm sure you can still make plenty of great gains over the coming years without them. It's simply not worth your mental health for a few extra lbs of muscle that can be lost as easily as they are gained when things go to sh1t.

I know some people don't respond to minoxidil but it's still worth trying anyway imo. If you start to notice shedding then from what I've read you must keep on using it or the shedding will have been for nothing. When you shed hair at first it is due to the old hair follicles making way for the new healthier ones so if you stop prematurely you can end up looking worse than before. Just push through and wear a beanie if you have to! It only lasts for a month or 2 anyway before the new growth appears.

That link looks good to me although I've heard of that brand causing the hair to change colour and apparently it has a strange smell :/ I could be wrong but I remember reading something like that.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Really????


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> Really????


Yea I think it might've been on amazon reviews that I read it mate.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

You using minox?

Seen any growth?


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