# any natural compertition winners?



## harrison180

i read alot about guys on steroids etc and their pics show great results. Also i watch bodybuilding stuff etc and clearly their on the juice.

Are there any natural guys on here who have a compertition standard body or just a top built body?

What im really asking is has the natural bodybuilder got a place in todays comps?


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## andyhuggins

There are natural feds that have comps. So its a matter of horses for courses mate.


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> There are natural feds that have comps. So its a matter of horses for courses mate.


Is there a govening body for natural bb comps mate? Cud a natty ever go compete in the olympia and b of that standard?


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## andyhuggins

There are several governing bodies. No a natty could never match the standards of the top heavyweights in the mr olympia.


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## harrison180

Bit of a shame imo. Im not against people usin roids its upto them but its a shame the biggest bb comp is mastered by steroid users imo.

I would like to c a bb comp for natural guys. The blokes in the gym i go to are all massive but no definition. Id like to c what a natural body is capable of.


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## andyhuggins

They have shows all over the the uk. I compete in the masters category.


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## Paz1982

harrison180 said:


> Is there a govening body for natural bb comps mate? *Cud a natty ever go compete in the olympia and b of that standard*?


id say no, steroids are a massive part of pro bbing and don't think a natty could ever compete with it, he'd get left behind


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## harrison180

So why do they allow it? Its a sport and all other sports are watched for drug use. I get they HAVE to use them to maintain their figure but they shouldnt b allowed to openly be on them for comps.

Every bb who wants to compete no doubt wants to be in the olympia natural or roid users.


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## BLUE(UK)

harrison180 said:


> So why do they allow it? Its a sport and all other sports are watched for drug use. I get they HAVE to use them to maintain their figure but they shouldnt b allowed to openly be on them for comps.
> 
> Every bb who wants to compete no doubt wants to be in the olympia natural or roid users.


My view is, 'other sports' have drugs cheats that are made out to be natty. People are always aspiring to have a body like their sporting hero because they're 'natty' only to find it's nigh on impossible. At least in bodybuilding they're being a bit more open although IMO the natty's in bodybuilding are often on AAS. I personally know a guy who's won quite a few natty comps yet is on a LOT of AAS. A shame really.


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## Skye666

harrison180 said:


> So why do they allow it? Its a sport and all other sports are watched for drug use. I get they HAVE to use them to maintain their figure but they shouldnt b allowed to openly be on them for comps.
> 
> Every bb who wants to compete no doubt wants to be in the olympia natural or roid users.


The industry is not that cut and dried..its riddled with politics


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## chris l

Skye666 said:


> The industry is not that cut and dried..its riddled with politics


And a lot of financial gain on product endorsements!


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## Marshan

harrison180 said:


> So why do they allow it? Its a sport and all other sports are watched for drug use. I get they HAVE to use them to maintain their figure but they shouldnt b allowed to openly be on them for comps.
> 
> Every bb who wants to compete no doubt wants to be in the olympia natural or roid users.


Thats just the way it is. Do you think a winner from a donkey derby would win the grand national? No, it wouldn't even be entered. As said there are competitions for natural BB'ers and plenty of them. If you decide to never use AAS so be it but you won't be changing the rules or unspoken rules from here. There's plenty advice on this forum for natural BB'ers...use it..but it's this simple, you won't be getting as big as the pro's or even the vast majority of users without AAS's. Like it or not.


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## Skye666

BLUE(UK) said:


> My view is, 'other sports' have drugs cheats that are made out to be natty. People are always aspiring to have a body like their sporting hero because they're 'natty' only to find it's nigh on impossible. At least in bodybuilding they're being a bit more open although IMO the natty's in bodybuilding are often on AAS. I personally know a guy who's won quite a few natty comps yet is on a LOT of AAS. A shame really.


It's a shame but..if he didn't he would be left in the cold without a chance in hell. The Feds constantly pushing criteria etc too makes it difficult to stay natural, I know girls competing in bikini and even they are having to do abit of anavar..they know if they don't their chances against the others are limited, I guess also it does depend which fed u are with too.


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## harrison180

So politics and money have strangled this sport to.

Im into the classic bb i no they used steroids to but they still look natural. I was reading flex magazine and everyone in there is horrific imo. So if bbing goes on like it is what are people goin to be like in 30 years time?

When i started bb i never wanted to get into comps but watching on you tube etc and reading mags but im getting interested now. Im nowhere near the standard and i want to stay natural. Even if i use it for motivation tho thats something.


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## BLUE(UK)

harrison180 said:


> So politics and money have strangled this sport to.
> 
> Im into the classic bb i no they used steroids to but they still look natural. I was reading flex magazine and everyone in there is horrific imo. So if bbing goes on like it is what are people goin to be like in 30 years time?
> 
> When i started bb i never wanted to get into comps but watching on you tube etc and reading mags but im getting interested now. Im nowhere near the standard and i want to stay natural. Even if i use it for motivation tho thats something.


What YOU think looks natural is what another person will think of as a 'Sted head' or whatever term they decide to use. Just build the body you want and if you decide you should compete, decide which fed suits your needs.


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## harrison180

mixerD1 said:


> Thats just the way it is. Do you think a winner from a donkey derby would win the grand national? No, it wouldn't even be entered. As said there are competitions for natural BB'ers and plenty of them. If you decide to never use AAS so be it but you won't be changing the rules or unspoken rules from here. There's plenty advice on this forum for natural BB'ers...use it..but it's this simple, you won't be getting as big as the pro's or even the vast majority of users without AAS's. Like it or not.


Didnt say i did mate. All i wanted to know is if there was anyone on here who enters or wins comps and r natural. Then i was just asking why the biggest bb comp is dominated by roid users.

As i said people can do wha they want with them its their choice i just wanted to no more from a top professional comp.


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## andyhuggins

I have done natty comps and won. Its a case of personal choice which path you take. I have no problem either way.


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## andyhuggins

BLUE(UK) said:


> What YOU think looks natural is what another person will think of as a 'Sted head' or whatever term they decide to use. Just build the body you want and if you decide you should compete, decide which fed suits your needs.


  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> I have done natty comps and won. Its a case of personal choice which path you take. I have no problem either way.


just been watching some stuff on natural bb. thats how i want to look  . i guess in a few years of training i can c if i want to compete if im good enough. i've done acting in front of crowds etc but its a whole different thing standing there on ur own showing off what you have spent months building up. that would put me off a little lol.


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## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> just been watching some stuff on natural bb. thats how i want to look  . i guess in a few years of training i can c if i want to compete if im good enough. i've done acting in front of crowds etc but its a whole different thing standing there on ur own showing off what you have spent months building up. that would put me off a little lol.


It will take more than months to get in good condition mate. What have you been watching?


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> It will take more than months to get in good condition mate. What have you been watching?


i no it will take years to get the body but i ment like if you had a comp in 6 months you would train really hard to get the muscles in top form like for the comp 

i just put in natural bodybuilding in on you tube and watched different vids on there mate.


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## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> i no it will take years to get the body but i ment like if you had a comp in 6 months you would train really hard to get the muscles in top form like for the comp
> 
> i just put in natural bodybuilding in on you tube and watched different vids on there mate.


I see what you mean know  Look up the NPA which I compete in also the bnbf and the ukdfbba.


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> I see what you mean know  Look up the NPA which I compete in also the bnbf and the ukdfbba.


cheers mate ill take a look tomoz  . are tickets to see bb shows open for public or are they private affairs for members only?


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## andyhuggins

Open to the public mate. just come along and enjoy the show.


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Open to the public mate. just come along and enjoy the show.


Ill have to look for ones round the midlands then . Drag me mrs along to haha.


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## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Ill have to look for ones round the midlands then . Drag me mrs along to haha.


You may have missed most of the shows this year mate. But have a look at their websites to check.


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## Marshan

harrison180 said:


> Didnt say i did mate. All i wanted to know is if there was anyone on here who enters or wins comps and r natural. Then i was just asking why the biggest bb comp is dominated by roid users.
> 
> As i said people can do wha they want with them its their choice i just wanted to no more from a top professional comp.


Ah....sound...sorry mate, took you up wrong. 'Roids' though...usually the word used by people with a hatred of steroids. No worries. There are probably more steroid users nowadays than non-users. Guys of Mr. O size cannot get to that size without steroids, that's why they're so popular/common. Secondly....the volume of AAS they use is probably relatively harmless to the other compounds they use, but by and large...these guys know a hell of a lot more about the stuff they're using than most doctors out there, although I reckon doctors are catching up nowadays by using themselves. It's a big subject, even if you were never to use or are against them lifelong....it's still a very interesting subject and something that you may develop a huge interest in...or worth just putting in the odd hour here and there to get a theoretical understanding of them.


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## harrison180

mixerD1 said:


> Ah....sound...sorry mate, took you up wrong. 'Roids' though...usually the word used by people with a hatred of steroids. No worries. There are probably more steroid users nowadays than non-users. Guys of Mr. O size cannot get to that size without steroids, that's why they're so popular/common. Secondly....the volume of AAS they use is probably relatively harmless to the other compounds they use, but by and large...these guys know a hell of a lot more about the stuff they're using than most doctors out there, although I reckon doctors are catching up nowadays by using themselves. It's a big subject, even if you were never to use or are against them lifelong....it's still a very interesting subject and something that you may develop a huge interest in...or worth just putting in the odd hour here and there to get a theoretical understanding of them.


Sorry mate i just thought roids was a short term. Didnt mean to cause anyone offence. Im learning tho lol. .

Im interested in steroids and i read all the stuff on here when people talk about them even though i do get lost in the names and that lol. Its all the side effects that put me off tho. I have just started tho and im getting into it in a big way i think the natural look is for me .

Thanks for clearing it up mate.


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## JSTEVO

harrison180 said:


> Is there a govening body for natural bb comps mate? Cud a natty ever go compete in the olympia and b of that standard?


Without reading all the posts there is my pal is the head of UKDFA. Look it up if your interested in competing. They have a big show at the end of the month if your interested in competing go have a look.

I'm quite lucky as I also know two of the champion UKDFA, rich Gozeki - current USN sponsered and Mark Oaks - current Reflex sponsored. Again look them up and see whats capable bring drug free.


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## Dark sim

harrison180 said:


> Sorry mate i just thought roids was a short term. Didnt mean to cause anyone offence. Im learning tho lol. .
> 
> Im interested in steroids and i read all the stuff on here when people talk about them even though i do get lost in the names and that lol. Its all the side effects that put me off tho. I have just started tho and im getting into it in a big way i think the natural look is for me .
> 
> Thanks for clearing it up mate.


Please also bear in mind the "natural" look is more than likely a drug user too. A lot claim natty, but never are, it also just the way it is.

I wanted to compete in BNBF some years ago but was told they also use certain drugs, so put me off. Now, I'm taking a diferent route 

Who have you been looking at on youtube?


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## JSTEVO

This isn't always the case. Most of the drug free shows are drug tested.

NPA are drug tested and this is a completely drug free federation life time drug free, which means no pro hormones completely nothing from birth.

UKDFA are drug free for 7 years, which as it says is open to those who tried the juice but then decided that it wasn't for them but still wanted to compete. Again this I'd drug tested using a polygraph testing. This is the federation Jodie Marsh competed in when she did her UK TV show. Likewise pro hormone use is banned too.

I think BNFA is 10 years drugs free.


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## 1010AD

harrison180 said:


> i read alot about guys on steroids etc and their pics show great results. Also i watch bodybuilding stuff etc and clearly their on the juice.
> 
> Are there any natural guys on here who have a compertition standard body or just a top built body?
> 
> What im really asking is has the natural bodybuilder got a place in todays comps?


Natural bodybuilding will always have its place. Check out the web sites for BNBF and NABBA and you'll see although steroids are used a lot in competition natural bodybuilding is still popular.


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## IGotTekkers

harrison180 said:


> Is there a govening body for natural bb comps mate? Cud a natty ever go compete in the olympia and b of that standard?


Hell no lol. Although you can be juiced up and still compete natty. They all do


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## IGotTekkers

JSTEVO said:


> This isn't always the case. Most of the drug free shows are drug tested.
> 
> NPA are drug tested and this is a completely drug free federation life time drug free, which means no pro hormones completely nothing from birth.
> 
> UKDFA are drug free for 7 years, which as it says is open to those who tried the juice but then decided that it wasn't for them but still wanted to compete. Again this I'd drug tested using a polygraph testing. This is the federation Jodie Marsh competed in when she did her UK TV show. Likewise pro hormone use is banned too.
> 
> I think BNFA is 10 years drugs free.


Polygraph tests can be beaten, drug tests can be passed.


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## Dark sim

JSTEVO said:


> This isn't always the case. Most of the drug free shows are drug tested.
> 
> NPA are drug tested and this is a completely drug free federation life time drug free, which means no pro hormones completely nothing from birth.
> 
> UKDFA are drug free for 7 years, which as it says is open to those who tried the juice but then decided that it wasn't for them but still wanted to compete. Again this I'd drug tested using a polygraph testing. This is the federation Jodie Marsh competed in when she did her UK TV show. Likewise pro hormone use is banned too.
> 
> I think BNFA is 10 years drugs free.


They drug test the winner. They are not well funded fedearations, so I don't imagine they can test for everything, incl GH. There are short esters, which are out the body quicker. Wouldnt be hard to be using test prop until 4 weeks out.

There are ways round a polygraph too (valium). Its no different to any other "drug free" sport, human nature will always seek the edge by whatever means necessary.


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> I see what you mean know  Look up the NPA which I compete in also the bnbf and the ukdfbba.


took a look on the NPA site. the pics look impressive on there, i cant find a link to shows on there or i could just be missing somethin lol.


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## Guest

Here is a couple of the top natural guys from the UK. Some amazing natural physiques.

I have also seen a few who I thought were questionable but won't say any names, why they would choose to cheat rather than competing against others who are assisted I don't know but it happens.


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## harrison180

RS86 said:


> Here is a couple of the top natural guys from the UK. Some amazing natural physiques.
> 
> I have also seen a few who I thought were questionable but won't say any names, why they would choose to cheat rather than competing against others who are assisted I don't know but it happens.


good vids cheers mate  . im avin a look on the BNBF site. im looking at the banned substances and that atm. even diuretics are banned lol.


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## Guest

harrison180 said:


> good vids cheers mate  . im avin a look on the BNBF site. im looking at the banned substances and that atm. even diuretics are banned lol.


 Yeah they are quite strict and they do polygraph tests on all finalists. Vicky who runs BNBF owns and trains at the gym I go to so there are quite often BNBF competitors in training and posing. Some really good physiques.


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## harrison180

RS86 said:


> Yeah they are quite strict and they do polygraph tests on all finalists. Vicky who runs BNBF owns and trains at the gym I go to so there are quite often BNBF competitors in training and posing. Some really good physiques.


Wheres that gym mate?


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## Robbie789

harrison180 said:


> Bit of a shame imo. Im not against people usin roids its upto them but its a shame the biggest bb comp is mastered by steroid users imo.
> 
> I would like to c a bb comp for natural guys. The blokes in the gym i go to are all massive but no definition. Id like to c what a natural body is capable of.


The reason 'natural' bbing isn't as big is becuase any *real* top natty should only be able to put on 2-3 pounds of muscle a year, whereas the guys that use PEDs can put on a sh!t load of weight and look completely different to the year before.


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## harrison180

Just took a look at the ukdfba (think thats right) website and theres a comp in september not far from me. Hopinv to go if i can to watch. Also i see theres a 68kg class which means if i can put 2kg on of muscle i could atleast b in a class lol. Theres a goal to work to now even if i never compete i can use the class divisions as goals to reach. I didnt know there was weight classes i thought it was just the bigger the better.


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## Justin Cider

Dunno if I'm late on this one but don't really care tbh but Jamie Alderton was done recently on BNBF wasn't he for using Craze?


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## Guest

harrison180 said:


> Wheres that gym mate?


 Body Academy in Perth mate


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## harrison180

RS86 said:


> Body Academy in Perth mate


Bout 6hrs to far for me lol. I would like to go to a gym with competing bodybuilders in cuz the one i go to everyones just big. Not really muscley like i want to be so i cant really ask for advice.


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## PHMG

harrison180 said:


> just been watching some stuff on natural bb. thats how i want to look  . i guess in a few years of training i can c if i want to compete if im good enough. i've done acting in front of crowds etc but its a whole different thing standing there on ur own showing off what you have spent months building up. that would put me off a little lol.


Famous natural = low does of test, high anabolics, 2iu hgh per day minimum but using just enough for your physique to be believeably natural and more importantly, marketable.

Its a drugs game at the top mate. Just that naturals have to be a bit smarter how they use them to give a specific look.


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## PHMG

Justin Cider said:


> Dunno if I'm late on this one but don't really care tbh but Jamie Alderton was done recently on BNBF wasn't he for using Craze?


...yeah...craze...


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## 2004mark

Don't be fooled into thinking that every person you see on youtube claiming to be natural is natural lol

Also bear in mind that even in other sports that comply with wada regulations aren't clean either, so why would 'natural' bodybuilding be any different.

Just one thing to ponder, the lower range for testosterone in a man is over 3 times lower than the upper range, big variance there... putting all other clever tricks aside, it would be quite easy to 'top up' your natural levels and still be in range. Also substances such as test base could be used pre workout and out your blood by the time you wake up the next morning.


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## harrison180

2004mark said:


> Don't be fooled into thinking that every person you see on youtube claiming to be natural is natural lol
> 
> Also bear in mind that even in other sports that comply with wada regulations aren't clean either, so why would 'natural' bodybuilding be any different.
> 
> Just one thing to ponder, the lower range for testosterone in a man is over 3 times lower than the upper range, big variance there... putting all other clever tricks aside, it would be quite easy to 'top up' your natural levels and still be in range. Also substances such as test base could be used pre workout and out your blood by the time you wake up the next morning.


It seems theres more to steroids than i thought. I no that some will take etc but its not as black and white as i thought. I thught u either took em or you didnt but theres so many types and just reading a banned substance list on a website baffled me lol. Igess at some point in a competitive bb life there must be a need to take something to help and keep them at their best. Im learning aslong as you pass the test after your laughing and knowone knows different.


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## 2004mark

harrison180 said:


> It seems theres more to steroids than i thought. I no that some will take etc but its not as black and white as i thought. I thught u either took em or you didnt but theres so many types and just reading a banned substance list on a website baffled me lol. Igess at some point in a competitive bb life there must be a need to take something to help and keep them at their best. Im learning aslong as you pass the test after your laughing and knowone knows different.


Also there is no such thing as a 'roiders' look. People use peds to craft many different physiques. From fitness models to film stars all the way to full on bbers. But the only one you attribute it to though is the Mr Olympia type, when in reality these people are a tiny minority of people who use peds.


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## Heath




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## harrison180

2004mark said:


> Also there is no such thing as a 'roiders' look. People use peds to craft many different physiques. From fitness models to film stars all the way to full on bbers. But the only one you attribute it to though is the Mr Olympia type, when in reality these people are a tiny minority of people who use peds.


So what people are telling me that to get my body to look like say frank zanes or sly stallone in rocky 4 or even the bruce lee look im only going to look that good with the help of steroids at some point wether its a small about or full on?


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## shaunmac

harrison180 said:


> So what people are telling me that to get my body to look like say frank zanes or sly stallone in rocky 4 or even the bruce lee look im only going to look that good with the help of steroids at some point wether its a small about or full on?


I would say to achieve a physique like frank zane, you need steroids, sly stallone, could probably be achievable with good genetics, not above average, a LOT above average. But it would take years of 100% dedication to get that way, some will say its unrealistic to say its achievable, but really, for a select few people, it will be achievable.


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## harrison180

shaunmac said:


> I would say to achieve a physique like frank zane, you need steroids, sly stallone, could probably be achievable with good genetics, not above average, a LOT above average. But it would take years of 100% dedication to get that way, some will say its unrealistic to say its achievable, but really, for a select few people, it will be achievable.


Right then well thats one dream chewed up and spit out lol. Of course im interested in them but the side effects really put me off lol thats the only reason y i dont want to take them.

So really a humam body can only really do so much and if the persons body wont let them go further then science takes over?

Ill go natural until my maximum is reached .


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## 2004mark

harrison180 said:


> Right then well thats one dream chewed up and spit out lol. Of course im interested in them but the side effects really put me off lol thats the only reason y i dont want to take them.
> 
> So really a humam body can only really do so much and if the persons body wont let them go further then science takes over?
> 
> Ill go natural until my maximum is reached .


I'm not trying to put you off here, I did it for years too. But reaching your genetic natural potential is something most will not even come close too. It takes year up on year of *pure and utter consistency* with training and diet. One month of slack training or a sloppy diet could set you back 6 months.

When you see some 18 year old add 20 lbs in 3 months from dbol it can make you question your dedication lol


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## harrison180

2004mark said:


> I'm not trying to put you off here, I did it for years too. But reaching your genetic natural potential is something most will not even come close too. It takes year up on year of *pure and utter consistency* with training and diet. One month of slack training or a sloppy diet could set you back 6 months.
> 
> When you see some 18 year old add 20 lbs in 3 months from dbol it can make you question your dedication lol


Oh hell lol. Well in my head im willing to give whatever determination is needed to get there but in the real life with work and family life etc it wont be enough :-(. Do steroids make that much of a difference to a bodybuilder then?

I read that when dolph lundgren auditioned for the part of drago he wasnt muscley bit stallone stuck him into a routine and high protein diet and he got to how he looked in months. Am i supposed to be reading inbetween the lines them? Lots of training a good diet and the odd jab or two of help lol?

Im 66kg and just starting in the world of bb. Do you think it possible to put between 5 and 10kg of muscle on in a year or so without the help of steroids?


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## 2004mark

harrison180 said:


> Oh hell lol. Well in my head im willing to give whatever determination is needed to get there but in the real life with work and family life etc it wont be enough :-(. Do steroids make that much of a difference to a bodybuilder then?
> 
> I read that when dolph lundgren auditioned for the part of drago he wasnt muscley bit stallone stuck him into a routine and high protein diet and he got to how he looked in months. Am i supposed to be reading inbetween the lines them? Lots of training a good diet and the odd jab or two of help lol?
> 
> Im 66kg and just starting in the world of bb. Do you think it possible to put between 5 and 10kg of muscle on in a year or so without the help of steroids?


Well put it this way... walk in to most bars in most towns and most the big guys will be using steroids... far more common than most realise. I'd say 75% of the guys at my gym do. So to think actors are any different to the rest of us is absurd. Although they do have time, money and professionals on their side, so of course most their physiques are possible, just comes down to dedication.

Don't let that effect what you do though. It's one of the most personal decisions you can make and is purely a case of reward v risk.

I've added 40 lbs in under a year natty before, although a large proportion of that was fat there was probably 5-10kg of muscle there. The problem then comes removing the fat with out losing too much of the muscle.

Watch Bigger Stronger Faster on YouTube if you haven't. A guys journey learning that his childhood hero's all turned out to be dirty roiders


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## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Just took a look at the ukdfba (think thats right) website and theres a comp in september not far from me. Hopinv to go if i can to watch. Also i see theres a 68kg class which means if i can put 2kg on of muscle i could atleast b in a class lol. Theres a goal to work to now even if i never compete i can use the class divisions as goals to reach. I didnt know there was weight classes i thought it was just the bigger the better.


That is a great show and well run. Worth a visit if you get time.


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## harrison180

2004mark said:


> Well put it this way... walk in to most bars in most towns and most the big guys will be using steroids... far more common than most realise. I'd say 75% of the guys at my gym do. So to think actors are any different to the rest of us is absurd. Although they do have time, money and professionals on their side, so of course most their physiques are possible, just comes down to dedication.
> 
> Don't let that effect what you do though. It's one of the most personal decisions you can make and is purely a case of reward v risk.
> 
> I've added 40 lbs in under a year natty before, although a large proportion of that was fat there was probably 5-10kg of muscle there. The problem then comes removing the fat with out losing too much of the muscle.
> 
> Watch Bigger Stronger Faster on YouTube if you haven't. A guys journey learning that his childhood hero's all turned out to be dirty roiders


Ill have a look later mate cheers. I really didnt know that steroid use was so wide and open. I knew they were there and the big boys have them but did t know there were so many etc. Looks like questions will have to b asked in the steroid section now cuz im interested in finding out more about them and there appeal to people apart from the obvious.


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> That is a great show and well run. Worth a visit if you get time.


Looks like ill be goin on my own if i do get a chance to go cuz the mrs is being selfish lol.

Quick question i wanted to ask u mate. The 68kg class am all those guys really short? Im 6ft and thin so at 68kg toned up ill b thin but toned if u get me. Prob look stupid at 6ft tho?


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## Brook877

2004mark said:


> *Well put it this way... walk in to most bars in most towns and most the big guys will be using steroids... far more common than most realise. I'd say 75% of the guys at my gym do.* So to think actors are any different to the rest of us is absurd. Although they do have time, money and professionals on their side, so of course most their physiques are possible, just comes down to dedication.


Have to agree 100% I admittedly train in a bit of a meat head gym, but well over half they members use, *ALL* the biggish (15 stone plus) lads you see in there day in day out use.

My rule of thumb is; if some one looks good enough to make you even question if they take anything, they more than likely do.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Looks like ill be goin on my own if i do get a chance to go cuz the mrs is being selfish lol.
> 
> Quick question i wanted to ask u mate. The 68kg class am all those guys really short? Im 6ft and thin so at 68kg toned up ill b thin but toned if u get me. Prob look stupid at 6ft tho?


I would say that most of the guys who compete in the ligtweight categories are on the shorter side. have you not got a mate who fancies a look at the show mate?


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> i read alot about guys on steroids etc and their pics show great results. Also i watch bodybuilding stuff etc and clearly their on the juice.
> 
> Are there any natural guys on here who have a compertition standard body or just a top built body?
> 
> What im really asking is has the natural bodybuilder got a place in todays comps?


Just to answer your original question mate. I have won or been placed in several comps from different natural feds


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> I would say that most of the guys who compete in the ligtweight categories are on the shorter side. have you not got a mate who fancies a look at the show mate?


thought they might be lol just my luck haha. Nah my mates aint really into the shows, they cant really get past looking at blokes in trunks part of it lol so you can imagine the stick im getting atm lol. i dont listen i think its art. every painting or sculpture in history shows men in top physical muscular condition from a basic warrior to an image of the gods. they dont look at it like i do where i want to see what the body is capable of sculpting etc.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> thought they might be lol just my luck haha. Nah my mates aint really into the shows, they cant really get past looking at blokes in trunks part of it lol so you can imagine the stick im getting atm lol. i dont listen i think its art. every painting or sculpture in history shows men in top physical muscular condition from a basic warrior to an image of the gods. they dont look at it like i do where i want to see what the body is capable of sculpting etc.


There are other categories to mate. There is always a way to compete.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> There are other categories to mate. There is always a way to compete.


next class up i think was 72kg so ill have to set that as my goal  . what class are you in mate?


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> next class up i think was 72kg so ill have to set that as my goal  . what class are you in mate?


Have a guess mate :lol:


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Have a guess mate :lol:


the 86kg or over/heavyweight class? you look pretty big on your picture mate


----------



## L11

2004mark said:


> Just one thing to ponder, the lower range for testosterone in a man is over 3 times lower than the upper range, big variance there... putting all other clever tricks aside, it would be quite easy to 'top up' your natural levels and still be in range.


Surely this "upper range" exists because there are a minority of people that really do have test this high naturally? :confused1:


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> the 86kg or over/heavyweight class? you look pretty big on your picture mate


I am an over 50's competitor mate :thumb:


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> I am an over 50's competitor mate :thumb:


lol well i cant enter that class  . whats your stats mate? height weight bf% etc. if u dont mind me askin


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## 2004mark

L11 said:


> Surely this "upper range" exists because there are a minority of people that really do have test this high naturally? :confused1:


Yes... so the majority who don't could theoretically top it up with exogenous testosterone and still be in range. Doesn't mean they are natural.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> lol well i cant enter that class  . whats your stats mate? height weight bf% etc. if u dont mind me askin


The last few times I competed I was 6ft:lol: as ever, about 76-78kg and was tested at between 7% and 5%


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> The last few times I competed I was 6ft:lol: as ever, about 76-78kg and was tested at between 7% and 5%


thats about my ideal size. i would like to be 15stone with 5% bf but a more realistic level to acheive is 12 stone with 5% bf. i belive i could reach that naturally in a few years of hard work  . adding 2 stone of muscle i think isnt a stupid idea is it?

im not to good with converting weights or working out if a kg of weight is better than some other amount etc.


----------



## mozzwigan

andyhuggins said:


> They have shows all over the the uk. I compete in the masters category.


if im 25, what group do i come in for powerlifting JUNIOR SENIOR J/SEN M1 M2 M3, im struggling to understand it lol


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> thats about my ideal size. i would like to be 15stone with 5% bf but a more realistic level to acheive is 12 stone with 5% bf. i belive i could reach that naturally in a few years of hard work  . adding 2 stone of muscle i think isnt a stupid idea is it?
> 
> im not to good with converting weights or working out if a kg of weight is better than some other amount etc.


78kg is 12 stone approx mate.


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## andyhuggins

mozzwigan said:


> if im 25, what group do i come in for powerlifting JUNIOR SENIOR J/SEN M1 M2 M3, im struggling to understand it lol


Sorry mate can't help you on that one. However much i love powerlifting i have never competed.


----------



## L11

2004mark said:


> Yes... so the majority who don't could theoretically top it up with exogenous testosterone and still be in range. Doesn't mean they are natural.


Oh no of course not, but there is the possibility of some super freaks actually being natural..? Competitive BB is something I genuinely have no knowledge so I'm not trying to be a d*ck, I'm just asking.. Also regarding the guy that got caught using "Craze", wasn't the substance actually some kind of amphetamine..? I mean craze or not, it certainly wasn't Tren!


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> 78kg is 12 stone approx mate.


if i can get as muscular as your pic at 12 stone ill be happy as a pig in sh1t  . lol this thread was starting to get me down abit with the steroid talk and all my film faves on them etc but talkin to you has put the hope back in  . cheers mate


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> if i can get as muscular as your pic at 12 stone ill be happy as a pig in sh1t  . lol this thread was starting to get me down abit with the steroid talk and all my film faves on them etc but talkin to you has put the hope back in  . cheers mate


You should aim for 15 stone. If you don't mind me asking what are your stats? Just gives people a feel for things.


----------



## andyhuggins

There is always a positive side to things:thumb:


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> You should aim for 15 stone. If you don't mind me asking what are your stats? Just gives people a feel for things.


i'll tell you what i know, i havnt really worked it all out properly.

23 yo male

6ft

67kg

dont know my bodyfat %

im on roughly 2000 (on a very bad day) to 3,500 calories plus on my days off work and weekends. sorry its not more organised


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> i'll tell you what i know, i havnt really worked it all out properly.
> 
> 23 yo male
> 
> 6ft
> 
> 67kg
> 
> dont know my bodyfat %
> 
> im on roughly 2000 (on a very bad day) to 3,500 calories plus on my days off work and weekends. sorry its not more organised


UMM okay. What are your goals. If you don't have any then just say so mate.


----------



## 2004mark

L11 said:


> Oh no of course not, but there is the possibility of some super freaks actually being natural..? Competitive BB is something I genuinely have no knowledge so I'm not trying to be a d*ck, I'm just asking.. Also regarding the guy that got caught using "Craze", wasn't the substance actually some kind of amphetamine..? I mean craze or not, it certainly wasn't Tren!


Not coming across as a d1ck so don't worry lol. I have no knowledge to speak of either... Just regurgitating what I've read before. Yes... There are people or there with high genetic potential, I'm not one who thinks everyone is on it. Just think a lot are (in sport in general)


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> UMM okay. What are your goals. If you don't have any then just say so mate.


Would like to be 15stone of muscle with a very low bf% thats my top goal but i have little goals on the way eg

I started bb on 1st of august seriously and given myself till the 1st of nov to get some definition so i can see the different muscle groups etc then build the muscle to acheive my big goal when i have muscle to see and build.

I have low bf u can c my veins on arms and my ribs are visible slightly. They are slowly hiding tho wich im happy about.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Would like to be 15stone of muscle with a very low bf% thats my top goal but i have little goals on the way eg
> 
> I started bb on 1st of august seriously and given myself till the 1st of nov to get some definition so i can see the different muscle groups etc then build the muscle to acheive my big goal when i have muscle to see and build.
> 
> I have low bf u can c my veins on arms and my ribs are visible slightly. They are slowly hiding tho wich im happy about.


Okay the next step is to post your diet and training so people on here can help you adjust it to get where you want to get to mate. people also have to respect that you want to do it natty to start with


----------



## Heath

Ogus had the cheek to post this on his own fb page, no shame. :lol:


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## andyhuggins

MutantX said:


> Ogus had the cheek to post this on his own fb page, no shame. :lol:


At the end of the day it is all about honesty.


----------



## Heath

I think the lines are so blurred now between natty and enhanced that no one knows what's actually achievable without drugs.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Okay the next step is to post your diet and training so people on here can help you adjust it to get where you want to get to mate. people also have to respect that you want to do it natty to start with


The training bit is sorted aftervtalkin to people on here. I do all free weight exercises and concentrate on the big muscles while im giving the smaller ones a blast to with the compound exercises. I use a weight where i struggle to get 10 reps from and do 3 sets of each exercise in a full body workout. I feel its working for me atm i try to go gym 3 times a week but with work its more like 2.

My diet. I just eat and eat and dont care what it is tbh lol. If its high calorie its goin down tje hatch . I do eat loads of chicken fiish etc with veg or rice. I snack and graze all day in the van.

Supplements are

2 weight gain shakes a day

4 creatine capules on training days.

All i can think of atm.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> The training bit is sorted aftervtalkin to people on here. I do all free weight exercises and concentrate on the big muscles while im giving the smaller ones a blast to with the compound exercises. I use a weight where i struggle to get 10 reps from and do 3 sets of each exercise in a full body workout. I feel its working for me atm i try to go gym 3 times a week but with work its more like 2.
> 
> My diet. I just eat and eat and dont care what it is tbh lol. If its high calorie its goin down tje hatch . I do eat loads of chicken fiish etc with veg or rice. I snack and graze all day in the van.
> 
> Supplements are
> 
> 2 weight gain shakes a day
> 
> 4 creatine capules on training days.
> 
> All i can think of atm.


Firstly you should care what you eat and I would get all macros from solid food where possible.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Firstly you should care what you eat and I would get all macros from solid food where possible.


Didnt mean it like i dont care what i eat like that i meant im not on a super health food diet. I know what i shoild be eating for protein and carbs and i eat loads of that stuff but i also cram the fast food and take aways down me without the worry of putting fat on.

I dont really weigh my food or portions tho i probably should.


----------



## Heath

Hamster said:


> But not everyone on a natty stage is a true natty.


Was you genuine natty?


----------



## Huntingground

Natural competition winners is surely an oxymoron


----------



## andyhuggins

Huntingground said:


> Natural competition winners is surely an oxymoron


Thanks for those words of wisdom :whistling:


----------



## 36-26

To the OP, plenty can be achieved naturally. You are obviously not going to look like Arnold or Phil Heath but train hard, eat well and you might surprise yourself with what you can achieve, at 6ft you should be able to get to at least 14 stone with visible abs and that would look good IMO. I know many on here wouldn't be impressed with that but this is the natty section so they can pi$$ off lol


----------



## harrison180

36-26 said:


> To the OP, plenty can be achieved naturally. You are obviously not going to look like Arnold or Phil Heath but train hard, eat well and you might surprise yourself with what you can achieve, at 6ft you should be able to get to at least 14 stone with visible abs and that would look good IMO. I know many on here wouldn't be impressed with that but this is the natty section so they can pi$$ off lol


Hope your right mate . I dont want to ever be mr olympia big but a fit muscular body with good size and "definition" is what im after and hopefully just stay natural. I dont mind the skinny muscle look tbh if i can get a body like bruce lee ill be happy. I have put a kg on in just under a month so if i can keep that up then in a year of hard work i should have a decent look.


----------



## andyhuggins

If that is what you aspire to mate then the only thing that is stopping you giving it your best shot is you. Just remember these things take time.


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> If that is what you aspire to mate then the only thing that is stopping you giving it your best shot is you. Just remember these things take time.


My only problem is im impatient and never see myself good enough no matter what progress im making. Im more than willing to put the best effort i can in and reserch different things etc. Even if i put loads of weight and muscle on i will always think i should be doing better. Im trying not to let it take over cuz i want to enjoy gym visits and enjoy building my body not letting it become a chore.

I can only try my best. I just hope i get where i want with my 1st 3 month goal cuz i dont like the feel of faliure.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> My only problem is im impatient and never see myself good enough no matter what progress im making. Im more than willing to put the best effort i can in and reserch different things etc. Even if i put loads of weight and muscle on i will always think i should be doing better. Im trying not to let it take over cuz i want to enjoy gym visits and enjoy building my body not letting it become a chore.
> 
> I can only try my best. I just hope i get where i want with my 1st 3 month goal cuz i dont like the feel of faliure.


The thing is with this sport is that it takes time. A lot of it. You will always see your bad points. What is your 3 month goal again mate?


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## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> The thing is with this sport is that it takes time. A lot of it. You will always see your bad points. What is your 3 month goal again mate?


Get my muscle groups on show so i have a blueprint to work with. I want to see the seperation of abs, pecs, bi and triceps etc so i can c what develops the quickest and slowest on my body. Then i can work out a real routine of spilts if i can to really work the different muscles. Thats the theroy anyway but after seeing that guys thread yesterday (sorry if your reading this i forgot your name) and he made that progress in 7 months with loads of gym visits in a week and dont get what im sayin wrong im not knockin the guy at all but i looked and the toned pic is how i want to look i thought maybe im expecting abit to much cuz i cant go gym that much or keep it regular cuz of my job i just go when i have an hour. Giving the effort is not a problem but i cant b doing with trying my best and not hitting goals. I guess ill just have to c in november and go from there. After my 1st month im noticing some gains so another 2 months of gains like that i should b roughly on target.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Get my muscle groups on show so i have a blueprint to work with. I want to see the seperation of abs, pecs, bi and triceps etc so i can c what develops the quickest and slowest on my body. *Then i can work out a real routine of spilts if i can to really work the different muscles.* Thats the theroy anyway but after seeing that guys thread yesterday (sorry if your reading this i forgot your name) and he made that progress in 7 months with loads of gym visits in a week and dont get what im sayin wrong im not knockin the guy at all but i looked and the toned pic is how i want to look Givi i thought maybe im expecting abit to much cuz i cant go gym that much or keep it regular cuz of my job i just go when i have an hour.ng the effort is not a problem but i cant b doing with trying my best and not hitting goals. I guess ill just have to c in november and go from there. After my 1st month im noticing some gains so another 2 months of gains like that i should b roughly on target.


These are the thing you need to address in your post mate.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Get my muscle groups on show so i have a blueprint to work with. I want to see the seperation of abs, pecs, bi and triceps etc so i can c what develops the quickest and slowest on my body. Then i can work out a real routine of spilts if i can to really work the different muscles. Thats the theroy anyway but after seeing that guys thread yesterday (sorry if your reading this i forgot your name) and he made that progress in *7 months with loads of gym visits in a week and dont get what im sayin wrong im not knockin the guy at all but i looked and the toned pic is how i want to look i thought maybe im expecting abit to much cuz i cant go gym that much or keep it regular cuz of my job i just go when i have an hour. Giving the effort is not a problem but i cant b doing with trying my best and not hitting goals.* I guess ill just have to c in november and go from there. After my 1st month im noticing some gains so another 2 months of gains like that i should b roughly on target.


This too mate.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> This too mate.


Might sound abit thick here but what do u mean mate? Put what im doin and that or have i mistook u?


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Get my muscle groups on show so i have a blueprint to work with. I want to see the seperation of abs, pecs, bi and triceps etc so i can c what develops the quickest and slowest on my body. Then i can work out a real routine of spilts if i can to really work the different muscles. Thats the theroy anyway but after seeing that guys thread yesterday (sorry if your reading this i forgot your name) and* he made that progress in 7 months with loads of gym visits in a week and dont get what im sayin wrong im not knockin the guy at all but i looked and the toned pic is how i want to look i thought maybe im expecting abit to much cuz i cant go gym that much or keep it regular cuz of my job i just go when i have an hour. Giving the effort is not a problem but i cant b doing with trying my best and not hitting goals. *I guess ill just have to c in november and go from there. After my 1st month im noticing some gains so another 2 months of gains like that i should b roughly on target.


The extract in bold mate.You only get out what you are prepared to put in.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> The extract in bold mate.You only get out what you are prepared to put in.


Very true mate. Atm im doing the best i can. Im not avoiding workouts cuz i cant b bothered or anything like that and im motivated the only thing letting me down is the random work hrs but i shall work round it.

Im putting 100% off possible effort in. I wish the things out of my control would sod off abit lol but thats life and ill sort round it in the next few months. Just need to work out a way of getting everything in.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Very true mate. Atm im doing the best i can. Im not avoiding workouts cuz i cant b bothered or anything like that and im motivated the only thing letting me down is the random work hrs but i shall work round it.
> 
> Im putting 100% off possible effort in. I wish the things out of my control would sod off abit lol but thats life and ill sort round it in the next few months. Just need to work out a way of getting everything in.


Thats the response I was hoping for mate. There is always a way round things if you want it bad enough. Work is one of those obstacles.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Thats the response I was hoping for mate. There is always a way round things if you want it bad enough. Work is one of those obstacles.


Ill do it mate. If it takes me abit longer i will still do it. Im sick of being the skinny guy i want a body on me. I probably wont ever b a competing bodybuilder but im using it as motivation and the different weight classes as levels to achieve.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Ill do it mate. If it takes me abit longer i will still do it. Im sick of being the skinny guy i want a body on me. I probably wont ever b a competing bodybuilder but im using it as motivation and the different weight classes as levels to achieve.


Good for you mate. It all takes time mate just be patient. Keep things simple and concentrate on the big compound moves.


----------



## RocoElBurn

I won't claim to know the upper limit of what you can achieve, but at your height you will certainly be able to put on a lot more lean mass providing something isn't off health wise. 15 stone with abs shouldn't be a problem, the lower your body fat the lighter your upper limit weight will be obviously but that's no issue as it's lean muscle gains that count anyway.


----------



## harrison180

RocoElBurn said:


> I won't claim to know the upper limit of what you can achieve, but at your height you will certainly be able to put on a lot more lean mass providing something isn't off health wise. 15 stone with abs shouldn't be a problem, the lower your body fat the lighter your upper limit weight will be obviously but that's no issue as it's lean muscle gains that count anyway.


I do hope your right mate . 15 stone with below 10% bf will do me fine. I really need to go find out how much bf i have now. Im not fat but not muscely so will be interesting to find out and hopefully the muscle gpes up and fat comes down .


----------



## tomo8

Im 29 mate an just over 6 foot an weigh 13 stone 5 lbs at the min with fully visable abs an obliques.

One tip as a natural i would give from my point of view is hit everything twice a week, i used to do mon chest tues back etc an it worked ok. Not aswell as when i switched to an upper/lower routine twice a week, one day power/strength and the other hypertrophy.

Good luck mate


----------



## Southern Karate Guy

Looking at the bodybuilders from the 60`s and 70` they look more natural than some of the overly huge guys we have now. arnie in 1970 looked pretty good


----------



## harrison180

tomo8 said:


> Im 29 mate an just over 6 foot an weigh 13 stone 5 lbs at the min with fully visable abs an obliques.
> 
> One tip as a natural i would give from my point of view is hit everything twice a week, i used to do mon chest tues back etc an it worked ok. Not aswell as when i switched to an upper/lower routine twice a week, one day power/strength and the other hypertrophy.
> 
> Good luck mate


How long was it doin 2 days a week before u noticed real noticable gains mate? I try to do at the very 2 serious gym workouts a week and at home i do my squats crumches and pressups then some dumbell work.


----------



## harrison180

amigamike said:


> Looking at the bodybuilders from the 60`s and 70` they look more natural than some of the overly huge guys we have now. arnie in 1970 looked pretty good


Frank zane and lou ferigno are my faves they were something else imo. I saw a clip on you tube it was a slide show thing of all the different winners of mr olympia from the 60s onwards. All looked great up till the late 90s and 2000s then we see the new big "freaks"

Maybe im just bein older than i am lol cuz people must like that look if its what is winning.


----------



## tomo8

Sorry think i wrote that wrong. I do 4 days a week

Monday - lower body power/strength 4-6 reps

Wed - upper body power/strength

Thurs- lower hypertrophy 10-12 reps

Sat - upper hypertrophy

I felt after doing that routine an eating well after 6 months i had real noticeable gains, however i had already been training 7 years already. So whos to say if your quite new to the gym an your diets right an your trainings consistent you cant make better/quicker gains mate.


----------



## Robbie

If you're planning 3 days of workouts a week, and only going 2 - you might be better to plan for just going 2 and doing full body workouts.

Post up what your planned 3 days are and what you drop if you only go twice...


----------



## andyhuggins

Robbie said:


> If you're planning 3 days of workouts a week, and only going 2 - you might be better to plan for just going 2 and doing full body workouts.
> 
> Post up what your planned 3 days are and what you drop if you only go twice...


That sounds like a good idea to me. Don't set yourself up for a fall.


----------



## harrison180

Robbie said:


> If you're planning 3 days of workouts a week, and only going 2 - you might be better to plan for just going 2 and doing full body workouts.
> 
> Post up what your planned 3 days are and what you drop if you only go twice...


wether its 1 or 3 times a week i can go to gym its the same routine.

all 10 reps 3 sets

dumbbell bench press

dumbbell flys

shrugs

shoulder raises

back rows

pull ups (on assisted machine)

squats/leg press

lat pull down

then i do crunches at home hanging off my bed i do about 20 of them before it kills to do them. or 50 to 80 normal crunches.

dont always do it in that order but it covers the big muscles and my smaller ones get a nice working to. any advice on this if it needs tweeking will b appreciated.


----------



## andyhuggins

Doesn't seem to be any major shoulder work mate?


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Doesn't seem to be any major shoulder work mate?


i do shoulder raises and the work i do on the pull ups. should i do more shoulder work than them two mate?

whats your shoulder routine mate?


----------



## andyhuggins

Shoulder raises are a secondary movement. Pull ups for the back and some bi's. Try the good old shoulder press mate.


----------



## harrison180

andyhuggins said:


> Shoulder raises are a secondary movement. Pull ups for the back and some bi's. Try the good old shoulder press mate.


Cheers mate. Ill give those ago . 2bh my shoulders r abit behind the rest on the top muscles i think that could b why.


----------



## andyhuggins

harrison180 said:


> Cheers mate. Ill give those ago . 2bh my shoulders r abit behind the rest on the top muscles i think that could b why.


Focus on the compounds mate.


----------

