# GH causing unilateral edema



## swole troll

so as some of you may know i posted up this video of my ankle in my log last week






well improvements have been minimal at best, better described as fluctuations really

im getting all the other sides associated with high GH like carpal tunnel syndrome and improved sleep running mod grf and ghrp 2 at sat dose 3x per day 
which ive ran in the past with no issues

this time however i added in MK 677 at 30mg ED before bed and it was around the time i added this in that i think my ankle started to swell (if memory serves me correctly)

now i dont have the best knowledge base of growth hormone and peptides so is edema to this extent a normal side?

@Pscarb when people speak of GH induced edema is it to this extent in your experience?

@DLTBB i remember you mentioning you had some swelling from running MK 677, was it anything like what is shown in the video?


----------



## latblaster

Having Oedema to this extent does not, in my opinion, appear to be caused by GH.

Your breathing seems quite laboured.

I would advise stopping & consult your GP.


----------



## DLTBB

I can't remember if my legs LOOKED different but they felt different because my work pants were suddenly very tight. I also had water retention on the bottom of my feet which made it painful to stand up for long periods of time. I think an influx of high amounts of gear, food and MK677 were to blame for it. I didn't like the feeling so reduced my calories, scaled my doses back and dropped the MK677 and I was back to normal fairly soon.


----------



## swole troll

latblaster said:


> Having Oedema to this extent does not, in my opinion, appear to be caused by GH.
> 
> Your breathing seems quite laboured.
> 
> I would advise stopping & consult your GP.


 breathing's fuct mate, that vid was taken calmly after walking up one flight of stairs


----------



## swole troll

DLTBB said:


> I can't remember if my legs LOOKED different but they felt different because my work pants were suddenly very tight. I also had water retention on the bottom of my feet which made it painful to stand up for long periods of time. I think an influx of high amounts of gear, food and MK677 were to blame for it. I didn't like the feeling so *reduced my calories, scaled my doses back and dropped the MK677* and I was back to normal fairly soon.


 sounds a good call overall

i feel its a combination of the exact same factors that are causing the swelling and shortness of breath im suffering from


----------



## DLTBB

swole troll said:


> sounds a good call overall
> 
> i feel its a combination of the exact same factors that are causing the swelling and shortness of breath im suffering from


 Yeah, doesn't make much sense being big and heavy if you're immobile and feel like s**t.


----------



## latblaster

I strongly recommend that you lie on the floor/bed, & put your feet on the wall, so they are above your heart.

This will increase Venous Return, & will help in reducing the swelling.

How long has your breathing been fuct?


----------



## swole troll

latblaster said:


> I strongly recommend that you lie on the floor/bed, & put your feet on the wall, so they are above your heart.
> 
> This will increase Venous Return, & will help in reducing the swelling.
> 
> How long has your breathing been fuct?


 about a week but its worth noting that ive gone from 92kg to 111kg in 5 weeks (morning weight)

i also have a bad cold atm bunging my nose up causing me to mouth breath but the shortness is definitely there aside from that

with the 7500 calories per day im consuming and large amounts of sodium im probably more around 114kg by evening, i last tested BP 10 days ago and there was nothing out of the ordinary (around 140/50)


----------



## swole troll

here's where we're at as of right now


----------



## 3752

GH wont cause this level unless using high amounts but you are using peptides + GH + MK all will produce GH type sides on their own so combined it is logical to assume this can happen, my advice would be to drop the MK and see if this reduces


----------



## swole troll

Pscarb said:


> GH wont cause this level unless using high amounts but you are using peptides + GH + MK all will produce GH type sides on their own so combined it is logical to assume this can happen, my advice would be to drop the MK and see if this reduces


 thanks paul

have since ditched MK 677

horrible stuff, tons of lethargy, bloating and by the looks of it excessive edema from the research ive done and complaints of other people that have used it

too early to call as i only stopped 2 days ago but im going to walk in clinic today for peace of mind and write off the more sinister possibilities like kidney or clotting issues


----------



## 3752

i can pretty accurately say its not kidneys buddy but it is good to check, i was on the MK677 and the lethargy is crippling, plus i have gained 4-5lbs of water in the last week since adding it back in......i would say that is the culprit buddy


----------



## swole troll

ive pulled this from my log but just as a quick update with the fluid retention:

" further news to those following the whole swollen foot fiasco with the MK 677, ive now noticed that both feet actually suffer from edema so it is NOT unilateral plus both my hands are swollen and my right wrist is an inch thicker than my left

so more and more signs are pointing toward the MK 677

i cant reiterate this enough guys, stay away from MK 677, there is much better options to boost your GH without excessive edmea, lethargy and insane bloating issues that werent bothering me at first as i assumed that it was just diet related but since stopping MK 677 all my bloat issues are gone and it is bliss to not walk around with a gut like a pregnant woman "


----------



## Goldigger

So for someone who isn't running gh or GHRP, MOD GRF should they stay away from MK?


----------



## swole troll

Goldigger said:


> So for someone who isn't running gh or GHRP, MOD GRF should they stay away from MK?


 someone else pointed this out to me and perhaps the statement was a little brash

all ill say is try at your own risk but i am not the first this has happened to and the other's i have read about were not running the same amount of gear and peps as me also some of them were exclusively using MK 677 and still ran into issues

im off to A&E in a minute because its still growing even though ive stopped taking mk 677 about 3 days ago, i cannot get any of my shoes on now


----------



## swole troll

here is the current state of my foot


----------



## ILLBehaviour

swole troll said:


> here is the current state of my foot


 that sucks, looks seriously inflated. Hope you get it sorted buddy.


----------



## Goldigger

Is that scar from a broken tib?

Just been googling mk and edema, it was even present in medical trails run solo in postmenopausal osteoporotic women

I'm still wondering if the gh release is more like gh bleed which is giving chronic elevation rather than pulsed..

If something is present in your blood for 24hours half life, then I would assume that drug would be exerting it's effects for the entire time span..not only elevevating gh release when it's released..


----------



## Goldigger

Just read on Dats forum that MK677 is a Chronic non pulsed Ghrelin agonist..


----------



## latblaster

What's your current BP?

I am a little concerned that the Diastolic was low at 40, & the Systolic high at 150, *&* have one-sided oedema...*.& *shortness of breath.

I do have professional qualifications in clinical medicine ( not a doc though, not bright enough..haha)

Have you taken medical advice?


----------



## swole troll

ah sh1t guiys i forgot to update in here

@Goldigger no that scar is from deadlifting and repeatedly tearing the shin open

@latblaster ive been in hospital for around 19 hours over the space of 24 i think

i discharged myself on the night of the first day i went in on the condition i came back first thing the following morning

here is a quote from my log that has all the relevant info

"

well ive just spent the best part of my day (around 8-9 hours) sat in A&E

they were concerned about my excessive edema but more so about my laboured breathing

they took:

4 blood tests in total including one from my wrist which stang like a fvcking wasp sting, worse pin of my life










the tested my kidney function and i have low albumin and high creatinine

they did red blood cell count which was fine

blood pressure is 137 / 48

chest x ray came back all clear

ECG which was all good

heart rhythm finger test under exercise again was all fine

they hooked me up to a drip and did an iodine injection and scanned my chest for clots which again was negative

they then did a urine test which showed high albumin which is conducive with the low reading from the blood (leaking protein)

they finally let me leave but i have to go back to the same ward tomorrow morning at 0900 to have my heart, lungs and kidneys scanned

safe to say that aside from the laboured breathing which could just be excessive water retention that all of this edema is cause by MK 677 as suspected

"

to add to that they did a dopplar of my right leg which is the worse swollen and they found a large tear in the calf that was full of fluid, ive noticed discomfort and burning in it but had no idea it had a tear in it, showed up as a giant black hole in the scan which may be contributing to the edema in my right leg

they also ultra sounded my abdomen to check for any clotting and they also looked at my kidneys both of which appeared fine

they then did an echo test of my heart which i am waiting on the results from

i have to go back and have been advised not to put any weight on the foot for prolonged periods of time and to keep the foot propped up when sat down

the breathing is the true mystery although she said it MAY be attributed to my large amount of weight gain in a short period of time plus a delayed effect of a cold i had earlier in the week however this is real p1ss in the dark and certainly not her diagnosis at this stage until they can rule out all other possibilities through the bloods and scans they have performed

kidney wise i have low albumin in the blood and high in the urine which suggests i am leaking protein

so really there is no closure at all and ive been prescribed R&R for the time being and to stay off my feet (time off work) and generally try to take it easy

she said i can start to spend more time on my feet at my own discretion but that should coincide with a reduction of edema which has slightly gone down (10% reduction maybe) but its left my foot feeling VERY unstable, almost as though there is no connective tissues between the ankle and the fibula and tibia, i know this isnt the case but it is how i can best describe how it feels to walk on since ive lost a minor amount of the swelling


----------



## swole troll

@latblaster i couldnt tag you in my last post for some reason, have a read above for updates and answers to your questions ^^^^


----------



## latblaster

Really pleased you're getting this sorted, esp that the ECG appears ok. Let me know about the Echo, when you can.


----------



## swole troll

latblaster said:


> Really pleased you're getting this sorted, esp that the ECG appears ok. Let me know about the Echo, when you can.


 just got off phone to her and she said echo was fine

she said at this stage the only real things she can pin it down to is my self prescribed naproxen usage as that can cause shortness of breath and swelling of extremities

the tear in my right calf that is full of fluid exacerbating the edema in that leg

and then finally she didnt say this as she was unaware but im certain the MK 677 and peptides contributed to an extent also

either way its safe to say im on the mend

and ive been written off work whilst its 33 degrees outside which is lush except i cant really walk around for very long as leg feels very unstable plus she told me to keep it elevated as much of the day as possible


----------



## Big_Me

swole troll said:


> just got off phone to her and she said echo was fine
> 
> she said at this stage the only real things she can pin it down to is my self prescribed naproxen usage as that can cause shortness of breath and swelling of extremities
> 
> the tear in my right calf that is full of fluid exacerbating the edema in that leg
> 
> and then finally she didnt say this as she was unaware but im certain the MK 677 and peptides contributed to an extent also
> 
> either way its safe to say im on the mend
> 
> and ive been written off work whilst its 33 degrees outside which is lush except i cant really walk around for very long as leg feels very unstable plus she told me to keep it elevated as much of the day as possible


 Glad you're getting better pal. To summarise, it seems Naproxen is the main culprit, and MK added to the swelling due to the water retention? Neither myself, nor my brother who also uses MK, have ever experienced this side. My brother does seem to get lethargic tho, whereas I do not.

That edema looked pretty horrific I have to say!


----------



## swole troll

Big_Me said:


> Glad you're getting better pal. To summarise, *it seems Naproxen is the main culprit, and MK added to the swelling due to the water retention*? Neither myself, nor my brother who also uses MK, have ever experienced this side. My brother does seem to get lethargic tho, whereas I do not.
> 
> That edema looked pretty horrific I have to say!


 thanks for the kind words and yes that is correct also the reason the right leg is worse than the left is because of the calf tear filled with fluid obstructing venous return

my kidneys leaking protein could also be contributing to the problem so yes it would be unfair to point the finger solely at MK

EDIT - also i notice you said "That edema* looked *pretty horrific"

unfortunately its gotten worse since that video and as is seen in the video with me pressing the ankle in and the crater remaining long after the pressure has been removed well i can do that all the way up the front of my leg up until the knee now

nothing is 'fixed' yet, just seem to be getting to the bottom of things


----------



## latblaster

Did they do an Ultrasound Scan on your leg?

If it is getting worse, then go back again.


----------



## swole troll

latblaster said:


> Did they do an Ultrasound Scan on your leg?
> 
> If it is getting worse, then go back again.


 they did and all it uncovered was the fluid filled tear in the calf

they scanned behind the knee for DVT and then literally the whole rest of the leg from the femoral artery all the way down the leg and all around 
there is no clotting at all in it they could only conclude that the fluid in the calf injury was exacerbating the oedema not the sole culprit as that wouldnt explain the other legs swelling

im getting a phone call from my GP any time today and she will provide me with an unfit for work note plus a copy of all bloods i had taken as im interested in my kidney function and want to look into this deeper

potentially pushing for a secondary kidney function test at a later date to keep an eye on things

i spoke my mother who is a nurse and she said id be better off pushing for a 24 hour urine test


----------



## 3752

on the kidney function test just be aware the eGFR is unreliable in normal people it is extremely unreliable in people who have an above than normal amount of muscle mass, unless you can push for a mGFR which is far more reliable.


----------



## swole troll

Pscarb said:


> on the kidney function test just be aware the eGFR is unreliable in normal people it is extremely unreliable in people who have an above than normal amount of muscle mass, unless you can push for a mGFR which is far more reliable.


 my eGFR was out of range 2-3 months ago but they attributed the inaccurate reading to the bloods being sat around a little longer than they should have prior to testing

i had my bloods tested immediately at the hospital and she said absolutely everything was fine except for my albumin being a little low in my blood and a little high in my urine

dont suppose you can think of any compounds that may effect albumin blood and urine levels?

ive been off the mk 677 for a while now and want to say ive noticed some reduction in swelling but honestly its so minimal if so

EDIT - this was taken in march and was a full blood scan so not in depth kidney panel

Kidney Function:

Creatinine H 141 <115 umol/L

eGFR(MDRB)(Caucasian Only) L 56 >60 unless evidence of CKD ml/min/1.73m2


----------



## colarado red

Big_Me said:


> Glad you're getting better pal. To summarise, it seems Naproxen is the main culprit, and MK added to the swelling due to the water retention? Neither myself, nor my brother who also uses MK, have ever experienced this side. My brother does seem to get lethargic tho, whereas I do not.
> 
> That edema looked pretty horrific I have to say!


 At the minute I am running 30 mg of mk on it's own before bed and not having any sides. Definitely sorted my joints after my epi cycle no lethargy do get a slight swelling the top of my socks being on my feet for 12 hrs shift won't help and dropped body fat.


----------



## arbffgadm100

What's the situation now @swole troll? Hope it's improved.

Cheers


----------



## swole troll

arbffgadm100 said:


> What's the situation now @swole troll? Hope it's improved.
> 
> Cheers


 all back to normal now thanks mate but it took bloody ages with the main contributing factor being MK677

was it exclusively mk? probably not but id say without the MK it would have posed as little bother and just general bloat rather than extreme, near debilitating bloat


----------



## arbffgadm100

Did you back off the HGH at all, and what dose did you use during the "bloat days", ha?

I'm interested as much because I've used 4IU ED for a while now - and almost never had any sides.

Went abroad for a week, and during that time did not use HGH, and my feet swelled up. Nothing like yours, but noticeable.

Been back two days and they haven't gone back down completely yet, though they are better, and this is despite having re started HGH again on return from hols.

In other words: it seemed rather like the correlation for me was not using HGH, rather than the opposite!

(I am using Lilly Humatrope and haven't changed brands or suppliers during this period. I also am not using other compounds).


----------



## swole troll

arbffgadm100 said:


> Did you back off the HGH at all, and what dose did you use during the "bloat days", ha?
> 
> I'm interested as much because I've used 4IU ED for a while now - and almost never had any sides.
> 
> Went abroad for a week, and during that time did not use HGH, and my feet swelled up. Nothing like yours, but noticeable.
> 
> Been back two days and they haven't gone back down completely yet, though they are better, and this is despite having re started HGH again on return from hols.
> 
> In other words: it seemed rather like the correlation for me was not using HGH, rather than the opposite!
> 
> (I am using Lilly Humatrope and haven't changed brands or suppliers during this period. I also am not using other compounds).


 its more likely the flying itself that contributed to your feet swelling rather than the hiatus from GH

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/edema/expert-answers/foot-swelling/faq-20057828

i imagine the GH use contributed but the flight itself would have likely exacerbated things


----------



## arbffgadm100

Thanks! I'll see how it goes this week.

Read somewhere on this site that vit C is worth hammering at 2-4g/day for a few days with a LOT of water to shift swelling of this nature. So am trying that too.


----------



## swole troll

arbffgadm100 said:


> Thanks! I'll see how it goes this week.
> 
> Read somewhere on this site that *vit C *is worth hammering at 2-4g/day for a few days with a LOT of water to shift swelling of this nature. So am trying that too.


 its junk, i took about 6g and just got a massive headache

if you want to use diuretics then prescription is the only ones worth using ime but i do NOT advise people use them lightly, they can literally kill you


----------



## arbffgadm100

Hmm.. f**k that, then. I'm not going near diuretics.

Cheers


----------

