# When's a good time to start?



## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

At the moment I have been focused on losing weight (fat) so I have spent most of my time doing cardio, throwing in full body work out a few times a week.

Now I am down to about 95-96Kilos, I have always been big and there is a massive difference can even start to see some niceness in my upper body.

Basically I want to look into gaining muscle now. Which means swapping my diet from what is now (rather low calories) into one where I will be consuming a lot of calories and doing more weight training. Since I still have a bit of fat, is it likely that I will be able to burn this off as I gain muscle? (I am quiet fearful that if I swap over it'll be for naught or I will just gain fat or look fatter)


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2012)

Adding more calories doesn't always mean your body will store more calories, adding extra protein into your diet with complex carbs should be good. Also adding good oils can be helpful and it's a common misconception that eating fat makes you fat when in reality a gram of fat does contain more calories than carbs and protein but it will be more of the type of foods that matter most.

Adding more muscle will increase your metabolic rate hence allow you to burn more calories on a daily basis.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Having said that you won't burn fat for

Muscle.

However in an ideal world you should get your abs out then start building muscle lean bulk if you like.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

I actually think you can do both at once through specific dieting. Granted not at the weight you're packing on the mass of course Jordan. If you catch my bench press/squat/dead total up I'll prob have a flirt with the dark side - can't be having people overtaking me 

Post your diet up Sirico and I'll have a look.


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

This is what I am eating at the moment.

Breakfast (Post gym)

Multi vitamin tablet

Pure cod liver oil

This consists of 2 light Cereal bars. The nutrient info on these are 1.6G fat, 22.4G Carbs, 1.6G Prot = around 126 calories (and the rest are kind of minor) I like the taste and they easily do me til lunch and if I ever do get peckish before lunch I keep apples in my work fridge. I tried porridge/oats for a time but to be honest I kind of bored the hell out of me.

Lunch

I did quiet a bit of experimentation with my lunch and finally decided on Boots meal deals. They are fast, easy to grab, cheap and dont seem to bad in nutrients. I normally grab Snack a Jacks, cream and chive flavour. Some cloudy lemonade and a sandwich, mostly either Tuna or Prawns. The average nutrients here are 9.9G Fat, 56.4 Carbs, 17g protein. and is around 411 Calories.

Diner

Dinner is kind of simple. Its jacket potato with cottage cheese and skinless boneless chicken which I drain and cook, 1 bag of 1KG last about 3days. 7.5G Fat, 57g Carbs, 73.G Protein, total of around 676 Calories.

Snacks and Drinks!

These are the things I have played with ALOT to find good balances. First drink wise I love my energy drinks, so instead of cutting out full and feeling the need for one real bad I tested alot of the sugar free ones, most taste like someone pissed into a glass, somehow syphoned the sugar out then drank it then repissed it into a can but I found Tescos Sugar-Free Kick, is actually nice. 8Calories a can! (The average person could drink 312 of them before hitting their calories count, but I am also sure they would be dead)

Biltong that dry meat in a bag. Its expensive about £2 a pop but I don't feast on it all the time, I keep it around incase I crave meat or am peckish at evenings. One bag is 1.3G Fat, 0.7G Carbs, 11.5G Prot @ 60Calories.

I am looking to do a big change up though going forward, as soon as I get paid (18th) My main concern is that I still want to shed some fat, hell i want to get rid of it all but I also want to gain muscle


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

To me it looks like your not getting enough Protein into your diet... You shold be eating every 2.5-3 hours, making sure you get enough protein, carbs and fats in there.

If you think oats are boring in the morning, then you shold try 6 eggs every morning plain, with green tea lol, but it works so I'm not fussed.

I'll leave it there and let parky do the rest as he is really good at this diet stuff.


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

Yeah I was looking at changing my diet now. Defo do more in the morning and add a few meals. Just want to lose more fat still, still got some round the belly and I really want to get my abs out


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## ElleMac (Sep 20, 2011)

X3_1986 said:


> To me it looks like your not getting enough Protein into your diet... You shold be eating every 2.5-3 hours, making sure you get enough protein, carbs and fats in there.
> 
> If you think oats are boring in the morning, then you shold try 6 eggs every morning plain, with green tea lol, but it works so I'm not fussed.
> 
> I'll leave it there and let parky do the rest as he is really good at this diet stuff.


Eating every 2.5-3 hours to make sure you get enough? Just wondering, does it matter what time of the day you eat food at? Parky, would love to hear your opinion on this- if I have a bad day where I am sick with my Crohns, I am just busy or I haven't got access to the right food, I can go longer without food and I play "catch up" with my macros in the evening- I just work from the basic principle of "calories in vs calories out".

Also, changing from a carbohydrate based breakfast to one that is made up of fats and protein is a strange jump to me? Have a look in the recipes section if you want ideas of how to cook with oats, I would personally always have some protein with oats, so either oats with pro 6 or oats AND egg whites, making sure the protein/carb ratio is the same... I am sure Parky will sort you out anyway


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## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

I'd scrap your breakfast replace it with something with around 30g protein. Could be a shake or 1 egg and egg whites or a full meal chicken vegetables etc.

Lunchwise

Everything I can think of in boots is going to be some type of processed food so I would look at making your own lunch. You could have meat, veg and legumes for around £2.00 per meal and would be better than what you get at boots.


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

Hey Ellemac with your Crohnes even when your sick with it or it's just being a pain in the ass do you skip meals or "force" yourself to continue with your meal plan (I too have Crohns but kind of new with it)


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

ElleMac said:


> Eating every 2.5-3 hours to make sure you get enough? Just wondering, does it matter what time of the day you eat food at? Parky, would love to hear your opinion on this- if I have a bad day where I am sick with my Crohns, I am just busy or I haven't got access to the right food, I can go longer without food and I play "catch up" with my macros in the evening- I just work from the basic principle of "calories in vs calories out".
> 
> Also, changing from a carbohydrate based breakfast to one that is made up of fats and protein is a strange jump to me? Have a look in the recipes section if you want ideas of how to cook with oats, I would personally always have some protein with oats, so either oats with pro 6 or oats AND egg whites, making sure the protein/carb ratio is the same... I am sure Parky will sort you out anyway


I'v always thought and been told that you should feed your body regularly to keep your metabolism going and also to feed to your body the protein and nurients it needs to repair and grow.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

ElleMac said:


> Eating every 2.5-3 hours to make sure you get enough? Just wondering, does it matter what time of the day you eat food at? Parky, would love to hear your opinion on this- if I have a bad day where I am sick with my Crohns, I am just busy or I haven't got access to the right food, I can go longer without food and I play "catch up" with my macros in the evening- I just work from the basic principle of "calories in vs calories out".
> 
> Also, changing from a carbohydrate based breakfast to one that is made up of fats and protein is a strange jump to me? Have a look in the recipes section if you want ideas of how to cook with oats, I would personally always have some protein with oats, so either oats with pro 6 or oats AND egg whites, making sure the protein/carb ratio is the same... I am sure Parky will sort you out anyway


Hey Elle.

I think calories in/out is an incomplete picture. I'll post something much more detailed on Sunday when I get chance but from my perspective the easiest way to conceptualise is a layered concept.

So

Layer 1 Calories in/out

Layer 2 What do those calories consist of (macros)

Layer 3 What does you body do with those calories given particular hormone levels (cortisol, insulin etc...) + how does it then further affect hormone levels, + what does your body do with those calories given current blood glucose levels, current blood amino levels, blood TAG levels etc...

Plus even at a macro level not all protein is protein (different amino profiles and BV), carbs have a different insulin index, GI and GL, fats have entirely different omega profiles. For example Casein will have a pronounced anti-catabolic effect spiking blood amino/leucine levels to a lesser extent than whey but keeping your blood amino levels elevated longer. It will also oxidise less than whey.

Lastly then you obviously have the metabolic effect as X3 has eluded to.

Nutrient quality and nutrient timing are pretty much what I base any diet I write for anyone around. I'm taking leptin into consideration more these days - but that's a whole other post I'll definitely get back in more detail later in the week.


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm going to have to look up stuff as alot of what you said is Dutch to me lol. Ill also try and build a diet and see what you think. I'll do it tonight.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Sirico said:


> I'm going to have to look up stuff as alot of what you said is Dutch to me lol. Ill also try and build a diet and see what you think. I'll do it tonight.


Basic principles matey

Protein (P) + complex carbs © (those are polysaccharides with low GI's, II's) and fats (F) with a good omega profile.

Pick your type of protein and amount of carbs (if any carbs at all) around timing. You have different goals at different times of the day.

Give it a shot and I'll try and guide you in the right direction


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

ok i can get on here at work (woop!) so i had a quick look over the stickys and got a little understanding.

This is my first attempt (the weights of some of the stuff I might and prob will need to change, I will need to look into calorie count. When I get home I will also tally up the C P and F in grams.)

Lean Mass building Diet, Goal is to gain muscle while burn off fat (i want a lower BF%)

6am: Liquid egg whites, + Pitta Bread + multivitamin + omega oil tablet

6:30m: 50minutes weight training, 30 mins cardio

8:00 Extreme pro-6 + 75g activated barley + 75g oats + cinnamon + 5ml measure flaxseed powder

12am: 1 Tin tuna, cous cous/brown rice/sweet potato + broccoli (Prep night before)

3pm: 1 Tin tuna, cous cous/brown rice/sweet potato + broccoli + omega oil tablet (Prep night before)

7pm: 150g chicken/Turkey (using george foreman) + jacket potato + cottage cheese (micro waved)

9.30pm Extreme Pro6 + 5ml measure of flax seed + 22 almonds


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## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

Parky said:


> So
> 
> Layer 1 Calories in/out
> 
> ...


This will be good to read.


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

Hmm just done a BF% - Height 74.4 Inches

Neck 16.5 Inches

Waist 35/36 Inches = 14.7% - 16.6%

So maybe I have jumped the gun a bit with looking at putting on muscle :s (even though I would be a beginner on the weights) >.< 

This is all quiet rough though as I dont own a tape measure


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Sirico said:


> Hmm just done a BF% - Height 74.4 Inches
> 
> Neck 16.5 Inches
> 
> ...


Was it on a machine mate ?


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## Sirico (Mar 23, 2012)

Not sure where I would find one :S


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