# 2 week DNP without aas "Muscle loss"



## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Was wondering if i do a 1 maybe 2 week cycle of dnp at 250mg ed along with 100mcg T3 would i loose much muscle.

Iv just finished cycle and it l be a while till i go back on but have just bought some dnp for my next cycle and just wanted to test the water with it especialy as the

British grad prix and expo is up at the end of the month id like to turn up nice n tight 

My only concern is catabolism, id probably tone the weights down to just one set per excersise and maybe up protein a little more to try and help.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

well even at 2 weeks of t3 you will lose muscle mass. How much i dont know. add some test or an oral winny or var or something?

plus your workouts are going to be lighter due to strength loss.


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

Do you mean 250mg?


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Superhorse said:


> Do you mean 250mg?


yes mate was a typo.

@Sambuca I cant go back on test mate like I said ive only just finished cycle and doing pct atm, I dont want to shut myself back down just for the sake of 2 weeks.

I know that its not ideal to run any thyroid type meds when off aas but was just thinking surely it cant be that much muscle loss in just one or two weeks if i take precautions to stay as anabolic as possible.

But then on the other hand if you can loose fat so quick on dnp theres no reason you wont loose muscle so quick either.....


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

I wouldn't bother with the T3 if off cycle.

Yes you will be a bit tired for a day or so afterwards but just man up!


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Superhorse said:


> I wouldn't bother with the T3 if off cycle.
> 
> Yes you will be a bit tired for a day or so afterwards but just man up!


yeh im not bothered about been tired ive just come off a 2 year hgh and peptide cycle so i was fallin asleep alday lol, onlything im worried about is catabolism mate


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

ah. i would just leave the t3 out as well. dnp on its own is good enough for a couple of % bf loss in 2 weeks.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

are you going to run a log?


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> ah. i would just leave the t3 out as well. dnp on its own is good enough for a couple of % bf loss in 2 weeks.


I herd the dnp stops convertion of t4 to t3 though or does this just apply to longer and more harsh cycles


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

Ive run the dnp with and without t3 and it made no difference to me.

I would just leave it out

The second run I used clen and it made a huge difference in terms of being sluggish


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> are you going to run a log?


i could do a mini one, like i say its just a tester and a way to look good for an event comming up, im already sitting at 12% bf but would like to just skin a little of the top without loosing too much muscle, I may even just do one week yet if any


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

its for longer cycles you would be advised. like if you run 6 weeks i would run t3. tbh you will notice loss in a week mate. once the waters dropped off


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

str4nger said:


> Ive run the dnp with and without t3 and it made no difference to me.
> 
> I would just leave it out
> 
> The second run I used clen and it made a huge difference in terms of being sluggish


was you also on aas mate, have you ever herd of anyone doing it off or is the muscle loss not worth the fat loss


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

I ran it it before and during my course,

To be honest I didnt notice any muscle loss when I ran it off with the clen. I wouldn't run t3 unless I was on


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

str4nger said:


> I ran it it before and during my course,
> 
> To be honest I didnt notice any muscle loss when I ran it off with the clen. I wouldn't run t3 unless I was on


thanks mate i think youve helped me make up my mind ill do one to 2 weeks then and lower my training volume, up protein and see how it goes.


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## Brook877 (May 16, 2012)

I might get shot down and corrected here.. but dnp isn't catabolic, I would of expected you to look drained and maybe a touch empty but I wouldn't actual expect muscle loss, not over such a short cycle..

My 2p anyway.


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

Interesting thread. I'm planning a two week low dose dnp cycle too. Hoping to start this week.

Was going to run t3 but maybe I won't now unless I feel I really need it.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Brook877 said:


> I might get shot down and corrected here.. but dnp isn't catabolic, I would of expected you to look drained and maybe a touch empty but I wouldn't actual expect muscle loss, not over such a short cycle..
> 
> My 2p anyway.


Yeh mate thats the point of the thread to find out.

As far as i thought anything that effects thyroid and any type of weight loss will for every pound lost when not on aas a small percent of that pound will be musce.

Interesting to know for sure but i guess im going to find out prety soon lol

- - - Updated - - -



Ginger Ben said:


> Interesting thread. I'm planning a two week low dose dnp cycle too. Hoping to start this week.
> 
> Was going to run t3 but maybe I won't now unless I feel I really need it.


with or without aas mate?


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Yeh mate thats the point of the thread to find out.
> 
> As far as i thought anything that effects thyroid and any type of weight loss will for every pound lost when not on aas a small percent of that pound will be musce.
> 
> ...


Without mate, came off a few weeks ago so not keen to jump back on yet.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ginger Ben said:


> Without mate, came off a few weeks ago so not keen to jump back on yet.


same boat as me then mate, we gona en up both been skinny feckers with no muscle lol


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## SteveMUFC (May 30, 2012)

Im starting a 4 week DNP aswel at 250mg, is it advisable to use T3 at 50mg a day? DNP stops your natural T3 apparently? Not too fussed about muscle loss atm want to shift from 20% BF to 15%


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Thousands if people used it in 30s without supplementing t3. U don't need t3


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> same boat as me then mate, we gona en up both been skinny feckers with no muscle lol


LOL I bloody hope not!


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

Growing Lad said:



> Thousands if people used it in 30s without supplementing t3. U don't need t3


yeah and thousands of people took thalidomide in the 60's and look what happened. better to be safe than sorry.

everyone seems to run 100mg t3 alongside dnp to supplement the t4-t3 conversion since it stops. rather than being smacked out your head on stims like clen etc just bang some t3 down you, and run for a week post cycle (and ED on cycle) to make sure everything comes back properly


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Was wondering if i do a 1 maybe 2 week cycle of dnp at 250mg ed along with 100mcg T3 would i loose much muscle.
> 
> Iv just finished cycle and it l be a while till i go back on but have just bought some dnp for my next cycle and just wanted to test the water with it especialy as the
> 
> ...


no probs at all doing 200-250mg DNP and no AAS. Max lifts will drop a little, but I train pretty much the same. Extra protein is good idea



Sambuca said:


> well even at 2 weeks of t3 you will lose muscle mass. How much i dont know. add some test or an oral winny or var or something?
> 
> plus your workouts are going to be lighter due to strength loss.


you wont loose any muscle on 2 weeks DNP and 100mcg T3- DNP makes drugs less effective, and also it completely stops the converson of t4 to t3, so you do need to supplement.

Also, the medical patent for DNP + T3 as obesity treatment spells this out:

http://www.afboard.com/library/DNP%20+%20T3%20(United%20States%20Patent%204,673,691).pdf


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## Chris86 (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't think u will have a problem mate just don't put kcals to low and keep protein high


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Superhorse said:


> I wouldn't bother with the T3 if off cycle.
> 
> Yes you will be a bit tired for a day or so afterwards but just man up!


You miss the point; DNP suppresses T4 to T3 conversion in the body. when you come of the DNP you will be suppressed T3 wise, and on cycle your body does need T3 for protein turnover.



str4nger said:


> Ive run the dnp with and without t3 and it made no difference to me.
> 
> I would just leave it out
> 
> The second run I used clen and it made a huge difference in terms of being sluggish


so you know better than the Dr who applied for a medical patent for obesity treatment based on DNP and T3? Have read:

"...DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENT

It has been discovered that the ingestion of dinitrophenol induces hypothyroidism. Athough it is not fully understood, it is believed that the normal thyroid gland produces both thyroxine (referred to herein as T4) and 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine (referred to herein as T3). However, approximately eighty percent of the serum T3 present in the body is produced by the extrathyroidal monodeiodination of T4 to T3. When dosages of dinitrophenol are taken, hypothyroidism is induced, not by a reduction in activity of the thyroid, but by a reduction of the rate of extrathyroidal conversion of T4 to T3. While both T4 and T3 are biologically active, T3 is much more active than T4. Thus, the reduction in serum T3 concentration induced by taking dinitrophenol substantially offsets the metabolic effect of the dinitrophenol. By analogy, the reduction in serum T3 concentration is similar to that observed in fasting patients. Typically, normal serum T3 concentration ranges from about 70 to about 200 ng/dl.

It has further been discovered that deficient serum T3 concentrations resulting from administration of dinitrophenol can be restored to normal concentrations by concurrently administering a thyroid hormone preparation therewith."

from:http://www.afboard.com/library/DNP%20+%20T3%20(United%20States%20Patent%204,673,691).pdf


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Growing Lad said:


> Thousands if people used it in 30s without supplementing t3. U don't need t3


yes mate, and if you read my reply above, you will see that since the 30s medical science has learned a few things....


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Why not try 50mcg T3 instead?


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> You miss the point; DNP suppresses T4 to T3 conversion in the body. when you come of the DNP you will be suppressed T3 wise, and on cycle your body does need T3 for protein turnover.
> 
> so you know better than the Dr who applied for a medical patent for obesity treatment based on DNP and T3? Have read:
> 
> ...


I meant from the perspective of catabolism since he isn't running it with AAS. So yes he will be suppressed for a few days but once he doesn't go crazy eating he'll be ok. Unless you think the catabolism would be minimal at a small dose for a limited time.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

xpower said:


> Why not try 50mcg T3 instead?


better than nothing... I just recommend 100 for two reasons:

1. The Dr applying for the patent settled on 100mcg for everyone..

2. DNP does decrease the effectiveness of meds- via a decreased half life in particular, as your mitochondria work harder and faster.



Superhorse said:


> I meant from the perspective of catabolism since he isn't running it with AAS. So yes he will be suppressed for a few days but once he doesn't go crazy eating he'll be ok. Unless you think the catabolism would be minimal at a small dose for a limited time.


DNP is not catabolic at all, and neither is T3, even at 100mcg when on DNP for reason (2) above, and also, you have none when on DNP.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> no probs at all doing 200-250mg DNP and no AAS. Max lifts will drop a little, but I train pretty much the same. Extra protein is good idea
> 
> you wont loose any muscle on 2 weeks DNP and 100mcg T3- DNP makes drugs less effective, and also it completely stops the converson of t4 to t3, so you do need to supplement.
> 
> ...


Thanks Aus just seen your post


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## AL_KILLIYA (Dec 2, 2011)

i think im right in saying that you dont need to take t3 untill around day 7 of dnp cycle (not 100 % on this)

its definitely advisable to continue taking it 7-10 days after finishing dnp cycle


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bump for later


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Hi everyone just to back up what aus has been saying, DNP is definantly not catobolic as Ive just done a week then had 5 days of then had a calliper test yesterday and Ive droped another 2 % bf and all my upper body measurments and lbm stayed the same.

Sitting at 11.4 now with an upper body reading of sub 10


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> Hi everyone just to back up what aus has been saying, DNP is definantly not catobolic as Ive just done a week then had 5 days of then had a calliper test yesterday and Ive droped another 2 % bf and all my upper body measurments and lbm stayed the same.
> 
> Sitting at 11.4 now with an upper body reading of sub 10


Was this on 250mg per day of DNP?

Would you say that you start losing fat right from the very start (i.e. first day) or else do you have to wait for it to accumulate in you before you start losing fat?


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes mate but I suppose it all depends on what state you are in at the start, I was already low body fat so I actually looked leaner on the night of the first day


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> Was this on 250mg per day of DNP?
> 
> Would you say that you start losing fat right from the very start (i.e. first day) or else do you have to wait for it to accumulate in you before you start losing fat?


The initial weight you lose is from depleating glycogen stores (and dropping some water if you are low carbing) then fat a few days later. If you carb deplete first for a few days then start dnp you burn fat quicker.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Ginger Ben said:


> The initial weight you lose is from depleating glycogen stores (and dropping some water if you are low carbing) then fat a few days later. If you carb deplete first for a few days then start dnp you burn fat quicker.


I have zero carbs anyway and have had so for arround 16 weeks now, I only have veg for fiburus carbs, I think you notice the effects of dnp visually faster on lower body fat,

My muscles didnt depleat at all and I looked full and tight all the way through with hardly any water retention, I got the water off in a day or two after with 1000mg vit C


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

My bodyfat is already pretty low (around 11%), as measured on 9-point caliper system.

Once my DNP finally gets to me I want to use it at low-dose (250mg) on low-carb days for 2 days of the week. I'm really curious as to how it will work doing it this way.

I follow a diet of very low carbs for 3.5 days of the week, 2 days of moderately low carbs and 1.5 days of very high carbs. Protein is always high and fat mostly lowish. Great diet for losing fat and maintaining muscle, but fat loss seems to have slowed down now that I've come down to current level. Hence my interest in incorporating DNP into this system.


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

Do you still get alot of the sides from taking 250mg per day? Or are they minimal from the small dose? I work in an office, so sweating all day isn't going to work for me, but would like to give DNP a go if it's manageable on a low dose.

I think I'm probably around 18-19% bf at the moment.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Ben89 said:


> Do you still get alot of the sides from taking 250mg per day? Or are they minimal from the small dose? I work in an office, so sweating all day isn't going to work for me, but would like to give DNP a go if it's manageable on a low dose.
> 
> I think I'm probably around 18-19% bf at the moment.


200-250mg/day will be ok if you work in an office. You just find you carry your suit jacket rather than wear it.... even when you go outside for lunch... and sit in shirt at your desk and feel very warm, but not sweating, as long as you don't eat carbs...


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> 200-250mg/day will be ok if you work in an office. You just find you carry your suit jacket rather than wear it.... even when you go outside for lunch... and sit in shirt at your desk and feel very warm, but not sweating, as long as you don't eat carbs...


Ok great, I'd be on a zero carbs diet I'd imagine as frankly I wouldn't want to feel the heat too much. I often have to sit with customers and just didn't want it to be a case of visible sweat...not nice.

Cheers


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

Don't do what I did last night and eat a cheeky cadbury's creme egg, hot is not the word!!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Ben89 said:


> Ok great, I'd be on a zero carbs diet I'd imagine as frankly I wouldn't want to feel the heat too much. I often have to sit with customers and just didn't want it to be a case of visible sweat...not nice.
> 
> Cheers


low carb is fine- i do 50g/day carbs on DNP, all from low GI fruits (apples, strawberries, raspberries etc) and its fine.

I work in investment banking, so I know what you mean! heat is carb related.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@ausbuilt - is my idea for incorporating dnp into my cyclical ketogenic diet a good idea in your opinion? Read my above post if not clear.

Cheers.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> @ausbuilt - is my idea for incorporating dnp into my cyclical ketogenic diet a good idea in your opinion? Read my above post if not clear.
> 
> Cheers.


you've described a carb-cycling diet.

I would use the dnp on the low carb days, and maybe the med, not the high.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> you've described a carb-cycling diet.
> 
> I would use the dnp on the low carb days, and maybe the med, not the high.


That was my thinking also. I wouldn't want the dnp to stop me from replenishing glycogen stores on the high carb days. Since there are 3.5 low-carb days followed by 1.5 high-carb days I'm planning on doing the first 2 low-carb days with dnp so that it is more or less out of my system for the carb-up.

Thanks for reply.


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

Ben89 said:


> Ok great, I'd be on a zero carbs diet I'd imagine as frankly I wouldn't want to feel the heat too much. I often have to sit with customers and just didn't want it to be a case of visible sweat...not nice.
> 
> Cheers


I am on day 6 of 250mg with 50mcg of T3, I have not done no or extreem low carbs. I have had rice etc with some meals. You do burn up after eating them.

I can feel it after a cup of coffee too, not sure if this is the carbs in the milk. I could feel it from day 2. Yesterday was the worse to be honest... I was low carb and was still brning up.

I work in an office too. I have a fan on my desk which is coming in handy. I often get up from my chair and have a wet back etc. I am prone to getting hot and sweating though.

Sleep has not been that much of a problem and not even sweating that much at night. I am fairly high b/f at around 25%. I have not been weighing my self but can tell I am holding water. I would prefer to be able to sleep at night so I am having my tablet in the morning. If work was your main concern take it when you leave work then you have the maximum time to acclimatise to it.

I have made the gym 3 times now since I started. I got some funny looks for being such a sweaty git on tuesday lol.

I was not sure if I should do 2 7 day stints or see the 14 days straight through.


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

dbaird said:


> I am on day 6 of 250mg with 50mcg of T3, I have not done no or extreem low carbs. I have had rice etc with some meals. You do burn up after eating them.
> 
> I can feel it after a cup of coffee too, not sure if this is the carbs in the milk. I could feel it from day 2. Yesterday was the worse to be honest... I was low carb and was still brning up.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks for your input. I'm wondering how best to run it, i.e length, i'll probably go 7 days first of all just to see how my body takes it and then go from there.

Also wondering if I should try something less hardcore first, like clen.


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

I asked very similar ben, I heard training was ok from 200-250mg and someone else said it took around 10 days to have an impact on their workout.

I trained fine on day 2, but day 4 my strength was down a bit and both cardio and weights were harder.

Day 6 today and it was pull day. I started off with deadlifts and that was very taxing..

I ended up swimming for 30 mins tonight which was heaven :innocent:

Got my haircut on the way home and being stuck under that plastic gown and her blowing the hair off me with a hot hair drier was hell :devil2: I had to apologise about the sweat lol


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## Ben89 (Jun 1, 2010)

dbaird said:


> I asked very similar ben, I heard training was ok from 200-250mg and someone else said it took around 10 days to have an impact on their workout.
> 
> I trained fine on day 2, but day 4 my strength was down a bit and both cardio and weights were harder.
> 
> ...


Haha all of that, just makes me think sod that! Are you going for 10 days or longer? What results so far?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Dan Duchaine his words

Duchaine: Rebound, yeah. When you come off it. It does some kind of stress to the muscles, very similar to exercise, so when you come of, if you eat, you get a little bigger.


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

Ben89 said:


> Haha all of that, just makes me think sod that! Are you going for 10 days or longer? What results so far?


half the time its not that bad ben. I have not stuck to a low carb diet either really. I think I will take the 7th tomorrow morning, then wait until saturday night for the 8th tablet. This will probably let the residual level become a bit lower.

You could always just not dose for a day also and let the sides level off a bit if it gets too much. I must be quite prone to the sides though. If I stay on for 10 I may as well do 2 weeks.



hackskii said:



> Dan Duchaine his words
> 
> Duchaine: Rebound, yeah. When you come off it. It does some kind of stress to the muscles, very similar to exercise, so when you come of, if you eat, you get a little bigger.


hey hackskii do you think that could just be the glycogen returning to them? you do seem to deflate a little after a few days on it.

I have heard of the anabolic rebound though.. I will


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