# Manly Features On Women



## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

Now I was just wondering after watching a lot of female bodybuilders who look, shall we say, rather on the manly side!!!

I was just thinking, if they stopped taking all the testosterone etc would they revert back to a more feminine look??? Or are they stuck with it for life?


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

The one with the polish sounding name went back to doing figure and lost some of the masculinity


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## Bigdav (May 24, 2005)

The majority of women who abuse test stay like that, it isnt something women should f*ck around with at all.

They will lose some of the problems associated with it but the large adams apple, huge clit etc are there to stay unless they can pay for them to be surgically changed

The main difference between teenage girls and boys is testosterone, and screwing with it on a woman can sometimes make their own bodies output to increase


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

you're stuck with it for life lauren.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

I made a comment about women's bodybuilding before and got blasted for it. So im not going to say anything offensive apart from i think it's emphatically wrong for their health.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

the edge will be taken away from the manly look but the whiskers and deep voice are there for good


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## sweet_FA (Feb 1, 2005)

samurai69 said:


> The one with the polish sounding name went back to doing figure and lost some of the masculinity


Kim Chizevsky. Yeah,. shes looking like a proper woman nowadays.........shaggable even!! lol :tongue10:


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## k man (Sep 11, 2005)

guys what do you think to Mel Dettwiller?

think she used test ?


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## mark1436114490 (Apr 20, 2003)

Well Lauren looks like a gillette job for you! or shall we call you Laurence?!


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## Ari (Sep 11, 2005)

i definatly would tho


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

u will never loose the new manly jaw,voice or brow... they are signs of male puberty... stuck with it

Lauren..... do u remeber one of the judges at the gravesend show? short blonde ratty hair??? about 50ish years old...

stopped training and looks seriosuly manly!


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Just my 2 cents but here it goes - There's to much to risk for a women to take steriods, cosmetic wise - ie Masculinity, its actually scary to look at a women who's taking gear and who has a masculin features - it just isnt good in any way shape or form. I know it sounds unfair as men can cane gear and the worst thing cosmtically that can happen to them is they may lose some hair - big deal this happens anyway to most men. But for a women - well you actually start to turn into a man and unless your a pre op tranny this is no good for you. In my opinion - and this is just my own personal opinion but women shouldnt take gear to the point where they become masculin, but the problem is you can never just stop at one course. To play it safe women shouldnt take gear at all. But look on the bright side - women can have multiple orgasms and men cant!


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

DB said:


> Lauren..... do u remeber one of the judges at the gravesend show? short blonde ratty hair??? about 50ish years old...
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

both the women in them were very attractive with beautiful bodies.

We know that some of the sides are reversible but many of them arent, however the society we live in dictates what we should look or try to look like.

Personally i find women with muscles very attractive but many of you know this already, however we as individuals should be more tolerant of each other and our imperfections.

Surely its about whats inside as opposed to the outside, so for me the reality of a deeper voice, or not such a smooth jaw line isnt such a huge thing, lol i know many of you will be saying he,s full of ****, but if we just try to get past our shallowness probably half of what puts us off, wouldnt be an issue.


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Sorry bud, but I watched a doc on women bodybuilders and their admirers - and these people were fetish freaks. They would get a hard on when a fem bodybuilder would beat them in an arm wrestle, or theyd start to drool over their manly jaw lines. Each to their own though.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

I agree with John!

Its up to each individual at the end of the day whether they take gear to the extreme and start getting masculine features.

But everyone has different tastes in people as otherwise everyone would be after the same person.

Some people like tall people some like blondes, some people like toned bodies others are not so bothered.

Its not the end of the day if women want to look muscular and want to compete and they end up with a little masculinity!

I mean for a woman to get anywhere in bodybuilding these days they need to take gear to keep up with the rest of the competitors.

Figure and fitness comps are fine as the girls are just toned rather than bulky!


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Of course its up to the individual - that goes without saying, it all depends on how much theyre willing to sacrifice to get to that extreme, as long as its all worth it at the end of the day for a trophy on your mantel when your looking in the mirror and seeing a blokes face?

But is it just the masculinity you have to worry about? What about the mental effects? All that test must an an effect on your mind.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

I dont see why Testosterone would have an effect on your mind??

Does it in men then????

I see your point Ironman with regards to making all those sacrifices for just a trophy and a title if your lucky. I mean look at all the heartache etc that Joanna Thomas went through to get to the Olympia. Poor girl.

Its a tough one isn't it.

I mean personally I would never take testosterone I just dont think its for me. But who is to say who takes what and how much eh!!!

I dont know if females could ever go back to their same old bodies and femininity after all the test they pumped in their bodies. Surely they could regain some femininities such as not so bulky, clit to shrink slightly etc

but the voice and jaw line is probably not going to go also the thinning of hair wont come back I doubt, if it did it would be more than likely be like wire.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

sweet_FA said:


> Kim Chizevsky. Yeah,. shes looking like a proper woman nowadays.........shaggable even!! lol :tongue10:


yep thats here and .....mabee shag able


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Lauren said:


> I dont see why Testosterone would have an effect on your mind??
> 
> Does it in men then????


Read this article - I think it paints the correct picture by someone who cleary knows more about this subject than the both of us.

*Women On Steroids* By JOHN ROMANO (for Muscular Development Magazine)
​
I was first intrigued with a finely tuned muscle goddess one day looking up from under a bench press. I had just racked the weight when I looked up to see the two most perfect little glute muscles swagger by; packed rather alluringly into a pair of black spandex so sheer there was little doubt of the color of the G-string underneath. I whacked the bar with my head hard enough to leave a lasting impression of the knurling as I sat up to see the rest of her. The top half was implanted with just enough silicone to round out the silhouette; straining provocatively against comparably sheer spandex, cropped short to reveal the most ravishing six pack. Her face was straight out of a magazine - naturally pretty without make up, framed with little wisps of blond hair that continued on down to her waist.

She turned and saw me checking her out. Thankfully she smiled, a little bashfully, and threw me a look I could've poured on a waffle. I mustered the courage to walk over and strike up a conversation, stumbling over lines I came up with from I don't know where. I practically gagged when I asked for her phone number, but she gave it to me. I used it that afternoon and that evening I went out on a date with my very first muscle chick.

As I got out of bed the next morning, I was well on my way to two and a half years of, among other things, the most intimate and in depth experience of a woman taking steroids. An insight that is some what unique, never the less an accurate perspective of what the majority of women taking male hormones experiences. The drugs effected her physically, sexually and emotionally in ways that made the relationship interesting to say the least. I'm not saying it was the worst relationship I ever had, but she did give great headache.

Like the men similarly compelled, women bodybuilders must confront the very same health and legal issues when they decide to gear up. Women must also face some pretty cruel public ridicule due to the irreversible symptoms of the masculinizing effect male hormones have on their bodies and their minds. I'm not just talking about a girl with muscles. I'm talking about the hardcore, top level competitors. The ones plastered all over the magazines. The ones who build the bodies you expect to see when you cough up your hard earned money for a contest ticket.

To physically and emotionally augment the body of one sex by injecting it with the hormones of the opposite sex, you will inevitably contend with, in this case, something quite controversial. Do male hormones diminish femininity or add masculinity and which case is undesirable? I think both. But first I think we need to try and understand femininity.

Visually, can you compare Kim Chizevsky to Marla Duncan, both in contest shape, and say one looks more feminine than the other? (I sure can, but I'm probably wrong). I'd imagine some feminist advocates would argue that both are feminine because both are women, that femininity lies within and is the experience of being a woman. The visual attributes that traditionally define femininity from a male point of view; big tits, a round butt, a slim waist and a pretty face have nothing to do with it.

I can no more explain femininity than a tornado can blow through a junk yard and spit out the space shuttle. I don't have what it takes. But Carol Anne does. There is perhaps no more staunch an advocate of feminism than our own Carol Anne Weber. At least if I state her definition I won't be subject to her wrath. If you've ever stood opposite the business end of the mouth of bodybuilding while she defends anything female, you know what I mean.

Carol Anne concurred with the feminist position. "Femininity is defined by women not men." She says. It is how she experiences herself, her experience of being a woman. She is perfectly able to develope her body, to build muscle and compete as a bodybuilder without losing an once of femininity. It's men who decide a woman is not feminine because she has muscles.

I agree, as long as they don't do steroids. As far as I'm concerned women bodybuilders on steroids are not feminine, not women bodybuilders in general - just the gnarly ones.

This is the crux issue here. The general public, (represented by the fifty men and women I polled), agree. No one told me they didn't think the natural women bodybuilders were not feminine. It's the women with huge striated, veiny muscles, grainy skin, a big nose, a wide jaw, and a voice like Barry White on helium that are not considered feminine nor desirable. But, in the true essence of competition, who cares what people think? A fine line has evidentially been established; a small contingent of fans still remain to support the result of no holds barred competition - unbridled development with the only concern the trophy. Their audience is very limited though. As a result many top pros can't get by without their day job. Or worse.

As steroid use permeated women's bodybuilding, public interest declined accordingly. When George Snyder promoted the first Ms. Olympia, it was well received and supported by a diverse contingent of loyal fans. The women looked fit, strong, and certainly feminine. They had a look that inspired other women, a look that could realistically be achieved. The sport grew and eventually steroids found their way to the front line. The IFBB attempted to test the athletes and enforce their rules against steroid use in 1990. Naturally it was a feeble attempt. These days you see women on stage in dire need of a third gender classification. Apart from Lenda Murray's awesome genetics, and Sue Price's unspoiled beauty, the line-up at this year's Ms. O was appalling. I couldn't even look at some of them. And I'm not the only one. The show has lost so much of its following, as well as many of its popular competitors, that it can no longer stand on its own. The last year the Ms. Olympia was promoted as a solo event less than 2000 tickets were sold. Now it has to be held in conjunction with the men's show in order to get enough of an audience to turn a profit.

I spoke with several women, who I know use drugs to compete, to try and find out why they'd be willing to cash in their femininity and their desirability for such a paltry return. Quite surprisingly their take on the issue is very different from the men.

First of all, few female competitors will actually admit they're oiled in spite of all the obvious signs. Only a few of the girls I interviewed admitted they were or had been "on." Probably only because they had asked my advise on how to take their drugs and that I promised not to use their names. All the rest are in denial. Even when shown pictures of themselves before and after a few years worth of cycles, (not menstrual), they still won't admit it. If they spent half the energy in the gym training as they do making up the ludicrous excuses to explain away their jaw or their voice or their big nose, they wouldn't need drugs. I wonder if they think they're doing something wrong? Not in so far as breaking the IFBB's rules as well as the law, but rules created by a higher power. It's so perfectly ironic; they copy the men in how they train and how they compete, they take male hormones, and guess what? They turn into men!

What does a woman experience as the drugs she's taking to grow her muscles slowly start to turn her male? They do you know. To say the effect male hormones have on women is profound is to say Noah built the ark because of a little rain. Listing the side effects women experience while taking steroids is one thing, living with them is another. Six months after we started dating, the girl I met in the gym started her first cycle. She wanted to win the Nationals and felt there was no other way to compete at that level. I argued that she didn't have the genetics to win the Nationals, drugs were only going to ruin her body. She may not have had the genetics to win the Nationals, but she had a body that would make a priest burn his robes. Muscular, lean, shapely, flawless skin - a beautiful, sexy woman with muscles. She could have done well without taking steroids, but she'd never win the Nationals. With or without steroids.

Well that ****ed her off. By telling her what I thought, I'd thrown down the gauntlet and she wasted no time gearing up. In fact, she tried making up for lost time by staying oiled from then on.

It turns out I was right. As far as I know she still has not won the Nationals. She did ruin her body and her femininity though. Her skin became course and dry, a lot of her hair fell out, her voice dropped three octaves, her nose grew, her jaw widened and she stopped having her period. In two years I watched her go from the hottest babe I'd ever seen to something that looked like a day old drag queen. She developed almost every side effect a woman can, both physical and emotional, from all the different drugs she used. It was an incredible metamorphosis, and certainly the root of our demise.

Her change, (I know you're just dying to know who she is) is basically what all women taking steroids experience. Some a little more than others, but no woman is immune to steroid side effects. No matter how much they deny it. The ones I'll describe are perhaps the most common. They're irreversible, most undesirable and for some strange reason tolerated.

The most visible de-feminizing side effects are well known and well discussed. Even by the sport's governing body, which seems to turn a blind eye to those competitors obviously breaking the rules. What I want to talk about is the stuff nobody else does; the more intimate stuff. The physical and psychological changes a woman experiences when her sex is compromised - when androgyny sets in. What goes on in a heterosexual relationship when the female member starts turning male. It's not pretty and I'll no doubt offend somebody, but that's the breaks when you get the truth.

First lets talk about aggression. It's good for a bodybuilder to be aggressive, you get a better workout right? True. But when a woman's aggression is mitigated by testosterone, the result is very ugly. Their brains are obviously confused. They start fights they can't finnish, they mouth off to any one that looks at them sideways and they lose their temper at the drop of a hat. I remember an anecdotal situation with my former girlfriend. It was the first time I witnessed firsthand androgynous aggression.

We were in the crowded baggage claim area at LAX on the way home from a guest posing. While I waited for our luggage to pop out of the conveyor she waited, impatiently, leaning against the wall, wearing spandex shorts, a sports bra and a baggy tank top. She was in fairly good shape from dieting for her appearance, dyed dark brown, and covered in veins from all the junk she rewarded herself with after the show. Looking back I must say she was a sight.

Some poor guy was staring at her just a little too long and she went off in that grating voice of an adolescent male. "What the f--- are you lookin' at **** weed? Ha? I'll rip those f---in' eyes right out of your bald head and........." I practically had to pull her off him in front of stunned on-lookers.

How about sexual aggression? Testosterone makes women horny. Very horny and very aggressive. Before you go putting Dianabol in you girlfriend's oatmeal, picture this - the girl weighs 150 pounds, can do an hour on the Stairmaster, and bench two and a quarter. She's all worked up, got nothing to do and she wants you - NOW! I'm not talking candles and soft music here, I'm talking total, aggressive, instant gratification - several times a day.

If that's the kind of girl that lights your wick, remember to keep the bedroom windows shut. Getting ridden into oblivion while she boisterously extols her pleasure in a voice that sounds like Ed down at the gas station, will have your neighbors think you're having sex with another man. For months after she moved in, until he finally met her, my downstairs neighbor thought I was gay. Then he thought I was weird.

Okay, so you don't mind having frequent sex with a big strong aggressive woman with a deep voice. I was able to put up with it, for a while. But how about a big strong aggressive woman with a deep voice, a hairy butt and a small penis?

Clitoral enlargement resulting from androgen use is another irreversible side effect. I've seen more than one as big as my thumb, and I can tell you - it'll change the way you think about cunnilingus. When a woman so endowed becomes aroused, her clitoris becomes erect and sticks out just like a penis does. It even looks exactly like a miniature penis. Some women argue that this condition results in more frequent and more intense orgasms. Others contend the added size increases sensitivity to the point where climbing a flight of stairs in tight pants is a problem. In either case, get used to it. It won't go away.

Hirsutism, or rampant hair growth, is another irreversible side effect. This hair growth sprouts up on the chin, chest, around the nipples, and the buttocks - especially the lower inner glutes and around the anus. Ridding her body of this excess hair can become an obsession for one so afflicted. I know women who spend hours standing in front of the mirror plucking corse dark hairs out of their chin with a tweezer, shave their chest and do some extensive bikini waxing. Frequently. And they'll be doing so for the rest of their lives.

Stomach distention is another side effect attributed to steroid use. The innards of the lower abdomen become irritated and swollen from the use of certain steroids. Chronic constipation, water retention, and intestinal gas can also contribute to the problem. Although not permanent nor particularly problematic, a protruding gut is just another thing the stacked women wants to hide. They try so hard to keep it sucked in.

Vaginal discharge. Sounds sexy, doesn't it? Women using steroids that are moderately to highly androgenic usually come down with a nasty case of "the drip." She doesn't have a disease or an infection, just the discharge. Obviously this condition is not harmful, and it does go away when the drugs are stopped. But, while she's got it, it's just another thing for her to deal with. If her lover plans on spending any time in or around her vagina, he or she will have to deal with it too.

Another bothersome yet temporary condition for the roiding woman is the strengthening of her body oder. Left unbathed, it's typical for a man to smell a bit more randy than a woman. Testosterone effects the sweat glands in humans, much like most mammals, giving the males of the species a stronger odor. Females taking male hormones may also be equipped with this option.

Her private acceptance of these conditions is cause for great depression and withdrawal for some competitors. Depression is further aggravated if and when her steroid use stops. Estrogen rebound causes extreme depression, fatigue, apathy, etc. Some told me they thought they were going crazy until their hormones got back in balance. Watching her size, strength and leanness slipping away is more fuel for the fire.

A depressed, hairy woman with a pot belly, scathing body odor, a small penis and a case of the drip is considered by most potential lovers sexually repugnant and the source of great emotional trauma for some women. Forget the muscles, some women may become so self conscious and ashamed of her new masculinity that her sexuality is significantly affected. Turning male can also become the source of considerable sexual dysfunction in a relationship. A woman's sexuality can be damaged for life, especially if she's had a bad experience or two with an intolerant, inept, lover.

Is it all worth it? Do the top women competing today earn millions of dollars a year and enjoy wide scale public acceptance and celebrity in exchange for life long disfigurement and psychological trauma? Ha! Many of them can't pay the bills. It's interesting that with what little women's bodybuilding has to offer, the top competitors as well as those striving to get there, are sill willing to trade in a good chunk of their femininity, by using steroids, to create an image that is so totally unacceptable.

Many times it's not her fault. It's a boyfriend or a husband with higher aspirations and enough gear to grow a beard on a peach, who talks an unwitting competitor into doing everything it takes to win. These guys are usually bodybuilders themselves, competitors who never really make it. Their mate may have a better shot at a title than he, and if so, what better science project to take on for a vicarious trip to the top? Unfortunately these guys don't know enough to get themselves into shape, let alone another bodybuilder - a woman no less, with a totally different chemistry than his. We've all seen women climbing the ranks and over the years remarked on how gnarly they're getting. More often than not there's an exclusive guy in the wings with a big dripping syringe who's responsible for ruining her.

Some women use small amounts of low androgen steroids and experience very few side effects and have little effect on the stigma of top level competitors. Unfortunately the majority of these women don't fair well in competition and it's not long before they retire, moving on to bigger and better things. Even fewer women compete drug free. My wife, Shelley Beattie, never used drugs in her pro career. Although she used them to win the USA and turn pro under the guidance of a complete bone head, she did far better without them, (the drugs and the bonehead). Third place in the Ms. Olympia, drug free, is quite an accomplishment - one she is quite proud of. (If there is any doubt Shelly competed drug free, consider this: in 92 Shelley became an American Gladiator. Gladiators are forbidden to take steroids by the producers of the show. Drug testing is mandatory and they actually do it - if you fail you're off the show. Shelley has passed all of her drug tests and is still a Gladiator.) Unfortunately, she was told by an IFBB official that if she expected to do better she needed to take "something." The following year Shelley showed up bigger and leaner. However she didn't take the IFBB's advice as many of her fellow competitors obviously had. She placed seventh. Sadly, her fans will never see her compete again on a bodybuilding stage; the writing was on the wall. Shelley may be deaf but she's not blind.

Shelley is a talented and gifted athlete, able to ply her gifts outside the bodybuilding arena. She's made several hundred thousand dollars since abandoning the posing dias and has many lucrative opportunities ahead of her. Most of the competitors today are not so fortunate.

A few of the professional female competitors can earn a living from guest posing, seminars, and the occasional endorsement contract. Other aspiring champions have limited options. Some work a regular job or do personal training to get by. Many choose a more degrading path; stripping, prostitution, phone sex, and catering to the whims of the schmoes.

Schmoes are sexual deviates who pay women bodybuilders to wrestle with them, to squeeze her sinewy biceps, have their heads scissored between a pair of powerful thighs, or thrown around like a rag doll by a muscular dominatrix. Many times masturbating in the process. There's more money in it for her if she provides the "hand release." It's the most loathsome form of prostitution. Schmoes are the scum of the earth you would normally find while taking a trip through a sewer in a glass bottomed boat. Sick lecherous little people that no lone female should ever have to face, let alone provide such a service for. Yet so many do. I find it reprehensible that even one woman devoted to this sport feels she has to stoop so low. Bodybuilding seems to be full of such sad commentary.

What's the reason the women have it so tough? The men have it tough, but not this tough. The answer is obvious. They need to stop using steroids!

Male hormones belong in a male body. Pump in extra and he becomes more male. As normal sounding as that is it's still wrong, never the less socially acceptable. But steroids turn women male and rob her body of its femininity in the process. The result is quite unacceptable, evident by the decline in popularity women's bodybuilding has suffered over the years and the poor public opinion of the competitors. Fitness has been around just a fraction of the time and enjoys far greater popularity as well as public acceptance. There's got to be a message there.



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If it's true that a competitor competes at all costs simply to satisfy her own destiny, regardless of popular opinion, then she who competes with the help of male hormones is on the right track. If steroid use continues unabated in women's competition, if the women continue to show up come contest time looking more and more like boys with breast implants, the sport will surely perish. Then they really won't have to worry about what people think.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

mate i saw that, and i agree each to their own.

All im saying is that we should not forget they are still women, whether they have a jaw line or deep voice or not, they are nothing other than athletes who are striving to be the best they can be, as are we males in the field.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

i have not read the article as i dont have time but i want to mention 1 point that i think everyone has missed.....if not then sorry

cosmetics seems to be the only thing we are thinking of here and TBH, as said above, cosmetics matters not

if a woman takes gear and gets a few whiskers and a square jaw then its up to her. I personally dont find it offensive, quite the oposite in fact

if a woman isnt gifted with looks then she will be a plain jane with a square jaw when gear is taken

if a pretty girl takes gear, then she will still be pretty....just with a square jaw!

At the end of the day, women sted heads look nice, or not....depending on who is looking

I thinkl the important thing to remember is what happens inside....not outside

gear can mess up a woman inside pretty bad

menstrual cyclescan get messed up pretty bad.....even worse, some can lose the ability to have children

its these things that need to be looked into

if you have any further questions Lauren, contact my friend karen

here..... [email protected]

you can see her achievements at this site

http://www.theforestgym.co.uk/Karen_Marillier/karen_marillier.html


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Each to their own definatly - I couldnt care less if some women wanted to screw herself up on gear, but if it was someone I cared about Id do everything possible to prevent them from taking the stuff.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

smacks of double standards?

Its ok for men but not women?


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

In my opinion yes, and Im speaking for myself and no one else.

If you like birds with beards then knock yourself out. Just isnt my cup of tea thats all. No offence meant.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

In my opinion women can take gear and not have any manly side effecs, it just depends on how extreme the individual woman is prepared to take it.

There are many ladies who take gear and look very good with no beards (as you put it Ironman), spots, wide jawline, huge clit etc etc.


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

I was perhaps a bit harsh with the beard comment so I appologise for that. Like I said its just my opinion.

I also agree that there are some good looking women with nice bodies who take a little gear, and if they can control it to that extent then even better.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

So now your saying, Ironman, that it is ok for women to take gear if they can control their intake and keep their femininity?? Correct!


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## Predator (Feb 1, 2004)

Lauren said:


> So now your saying, Ironman, that it is ok for women to take gear if they can control their intake and keep their femininity?? Correct!


Sounds about right to me. 

Predator


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Lauren said:


> So now your saying, Ironman, that it is ok for women to take gear if they can control their intake and keep their femininity?? Correct!


Basically its ok for them to do anything they want, thats their choice, we wont judge them... We just wont want to go out with them either 

But that in itself could be a blessing in disguise


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Anyone who changes their genetic makeup or changes their entire appearance for a trophy are open to debate. I can see all of your opinions on the matter, but when i look at them training i can't get my head around their reasons and motives in looking like that. I know that is going to offend some people, i didnt mean anything by it but i REALLY cant.

Call me shallow, vein or dam right stupid but in my opinion they were beatiful and femine, *(WHAT THE FEMALE BODY IS ALL ABOUT )*when they were training naturally, why has the sport escalated this far to allow such excessive drug use.

I know these women accept the consequences for their actions and i guess if they can accept it, then so should everybody else. But...even so....when i see the change in appearance, voice etc i cant help but feel discontent to the sport because of the permanent effects caused by it.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

You could say the same thing as men who get Gyno start to grow boobs, now I call that unattractive too.

We could have this debate all day long about why women AND MEN should not take gear but at the end of the day people do that i life.

I think certain women who take gear look in fabulous condition, where as some have taken it too far!

I have done a couple of courses of Anavar and i have not got a beard, deep voice etc etc. as I do it sensibly and what I think is right for me personally.

Who is to say right from wrong in this sport?!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Lauren said:


> Who is to say right from wrong in this sport?!


I 100% agree, nobody has the right to put down the sport, that was'nt what i said, i just think away from the sport and away from the achievements there is going to be consequences they are not going to be able to escape from.

And let's face it....That documentary on um...Jo Clarke was it? I gurantee 90% of the general public found it disturbing in one way or another. I think it's natural for people to judge anything from right or wrong, especially when they dont understand or appreciate what's involved.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

Killerkeane said:


> That documentary on um...Jo Clarke was it? I gurantee quote]
> 
> Her name was Joanna Thomas.
> 
> ...


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Lauren said:


> So now your saying, Ironman, that it is ok for women to take gear if they can control their intake and keep their femininity?? Correct!


No I said that there are some women that take little amounts can look attractive, and if they can control their intake to these little amounts then thats a good thing opposed to going to the exteme.

I still say women shouldnt take gear - like I said previously this is just my opinion.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Lauren said:


> It is very very hard for me to say my point without sounding contrascending or disrespectful because im not.
> 
> Yeh, Agree with you L, your spot on about comparing Gyno. Can't argue with you one bit there.
> 
> But like you say....if women take it sensibly then yeh cool, and if *they* choose to use it abusively then who am i to argue? It's their life, not mine but my own eyes tell me that they are using it excessively.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

Ironman said:


> No I said that there are some women that take little amounts can look attractive, and if they can control their intake to these little amounts then thats a good thing opposed to going to the exteme.
> 
> I still say women shouldnt take gear - like I said previously this is just my opinion.


I have to agree. If i saw the sport so that their features and bodies remained looking like women then i would support it.

It's an appearance driven culture that we live in, i suppose that is why there is so much contraversey over women's bodybuilding and Michael Jackson, there's nothing predujice, sexist or discriminating about it.

Now....as far as moderate use and natural bodybuilding goes i 110% agree with it. I love it. I think it's great, they are women expressing and showing off far subtler, beautiful contours of their bodies. If this is my opinion why does everybody take it so badly?


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## Bigdav (May 24, 2005)

I still think women shouldnt screw about with test but you cant disagree with the results, thus still does it for me..


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

the above arent very attractive or have beautiful bodies , is talking sh1te, its as simple as that,i like female bodybuilders just as much if not more than i like a full figured woman. Its about appreciation, of their bodies and what they have done to acheive them, its easy to say thats disgusting or she looks masculine, but as adults we should be able to see past that.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

the girl in the RED^^I would wax dat ass


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Lauren - You mentioned that you have taken a couple of courses of anavar. Can I ask what this did for you?

You also mentioned that your goal is to achieve a body similar to the lady in your avatar. Would this not be possible without taking steriods - i.e. a good diet and hard training and lots of cardio?. Im not attacking you here, im just interested in whats possible for a lady who doesnt take gear. When I trained natural my phisique looked pretty **** hot - not bigging myself up here but I was ripped and muscular - just didnt have the size to go with it. Im just saying this this because it sounds like you dont want size just a tight muscular body - or am I completly wrong here.

For me I only take gear cause I want to be big. If I wanted to be slim and ripped I wouldnt be taking gear.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

only i like em all, because you cant beat a woman with muscles, god i wish i could just get one of my own . So if any of you out there know of any who are single, keep me in mind.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

In reply to your post Ironman asking me why I took a couple of courses of Anavar well here is my answer.

I always train extremely hard in the gym and my diet was in check whilst I did these courses. At that point in time I wanted to add a bit more muscle on, so when it came round to cutting I had extra muscle to show.

It worked very well for me, my arms and legs looked much fuller and I grew around 1/22 on my biceps, which I was very pleased with.

I am planning on doing another course of Anavar in the next 2 weeks to run it up to xmas, then have an off period, then start a course of Clen and EPH leading up to summer to get that ripped look, if possible. Along with a good diet and plenty of cardio, hopefully I will achieve my goal.

I would not touch Testosterone, as i dont believe its for me and i dont fancy some of the side effects. But the less harmful drugs such as Anavar, Clen etc are ok for me.

I hope this explains to you my thoughts!


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Lauren said:


> In reply to your post Ironman asking me why I took a couple of courses of Anavar well here is my answer.
> 
> I always train extremely hard in the gym and my diet was in check whilst I did these courses. At that point in time I wanted to add a bit more muscle on, so when it came round to cutting I had extra muscle to show.
> 
> ...


"Lauren - You mentioned that you have taken a couple of courses of anavar. Can I ask what this did for you?

You also mentioned that your goal is to achieve a body similar to the lady in your avatar. Would this not be possible without taking steriods"

I think you miss read my post - I didnt ask why you took gear I simply asked what they did for you and would it not be possible to gain your goal ie the lady in your avatar, without taking gear?

Sorry if my post mislead you.


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

Ironman said:


> I think you miss read my post - I didnt ask why you took gear I simply asked what they did for you
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

the fact is this women use gear, whether its possible or not, too get into good/great shape without gear. what they are doing is no different to what we men are doing, credit to them, lauren i hope your up and coming course goes well, im already looking forward to your pics .


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

I second that!


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

John said:


> only i like em all, because you cant beat a woman with muscles, god i wish i could just get one of my own . So if any of you out there know of any who are single, keep me in mind.


Here you go bud - what about one of these sexy ladies - each one as prescious as the last. Treat with care though, other wise they'll beat you down like a b*tch!!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

I can see where L and John is coming from. Irrespective of the effects, i still admire their bodies. There' a fine line however between the one's Ironman posted and the ones John posted.

The one's John posted was tasteful and beautiful, still retaining their feminine features, the latter ones look like blokes full stop and that is'nt what the female body is supposed to look like.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

by far the best, im not saying it cant be taken too far, im simply saying we should respect them for their choice, and their bodies.

I clearly like females with muscles , some guys dont, thats it.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

John said:


> by far the best, im not saying it cant be taken too far, im simply saying we should respect them for their choice, and their bodies.
> 
> I clearly like females with muscles , some guys dont, thats it.


absouloutly (spelled wrong i know :becky. Yes i can definetly agree with that John, took 4 pages of posts but we got there, that sums it up well.


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## roguetrainer00 (Feb 2, 2008)

Male bodybuilders take male hormones to become "hyper-manly". Female bodybuilders take male hormones to ???????????????????????????????????


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## Scottswald (Mar 16, 2007)

k man said:


> guys what do you think to Mel Dettwiller?
> 
> think she used test ?


good body but i can see a considerable degree of masculinity in the face...


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## Scottswald (Mar 16, 2007)

Ironman said:


> Here you go bud - what about one of these sexy ladies - each one as prescious as the last. Treat with care though, other wise they'll beat you down like a b*tch!!


the lass in the second pic, her calves are as big as my thighs!!!!


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## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

Haha, there's some gorgeous girls on this thread. :confused1:

I miss ironmans posts, where did he go to??


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## ardsam (Jul 30, 2008)

k man said:


> guys what do you think to Mel Dettwiller?
> 
> think she used test ?


She looks like a bloke, look at them forearms and thick looking body...


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

I think the fitness/figure girls such as Carly and Zara on here look superb.

A dead flat stomach, toned but muscular legs and arms look wicked.

I think when pecs start to develop and they have developed pecs in the middle and deformed t1ts, manly jawlines and features from male hormones it's a bad look.

Just my opinion.


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

I find muscles on women repulsive tbh. I like my birds to be girly girls.

If any bloke finds the above pics sexy he must be a huge fan of prison food..


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## 3.lions (Nov 1, 2008)

Sylar said:


> I find muscles on women repulsive tbh. I like my birds to be girly girls.
> 
> If any bloke finds the above pics sexy he must be a huge fan of prison food..


lol! couldn't have put it better!


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## NeilpWest (Aug 19, 2007)

Sylar said:


> I find muscles on women repulsive tbh. I like my birds to be girly girls.
> 
> If any bloke finds the above pics sexy he must be a huge fan of prison food..


i agree with that 100%. Girly girls with curves in the right places.


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## Jimmy_Cricket (Aug 3, 2006)

...


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## Jimmy_Cricket (Aug 3, 2006)

....


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## Jimmy_Cricket (Aug 3, 2006)

...


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Lin said:


> If guys go on gear it's ok to look super huge, girls do it and they get slated!!!! n


This is a open forum and people will state their honest opinions, i wouldn't call that 'slating' though.

I know you train hard Lin and you DO look great to me, but the women in the photo's have lost every single ounce of femininity that nature gave them. That's not a good look IMHO.

It probably gives most blokes the same reaction looking at those pics as it would you if you saw a man in a pair of pink spotted panties painting his nails whilst watching Strictle Come Dancing..


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

DB said:


> u will never loose the new manly jaw,voice or brow... they are signs of male puberty... stuck with it
> 
> Lauren..... do u remeber one of the judges at the gravesend show? short blonde ratty hair??? about 50ish years old...
> 
> stopped training and looks seriosuly manly!


You are talking about one of our IFBB Pro's Sarah Bridges and she still competes currently weighing in at 100kg at 6'2" spoke to her briefly at the British this year nice lady....


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

Sylar said:


> I find muscles on women repulsive tbh. I like my birds to be girly girls.
> 
> If any bloke finds the above pics sexy he must be a huge fan of prison food..


Is that because you like to act and look BIG and macho with your girly girls??


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Lou said:


> Is that because you like to act and look BIG and macho with your girly girls??


Of course! It's much easier to slap them around when they are smaller than you too!


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

Lauren said:


> I am of the opinion having spent some time backstage at shows that there is not one *serious* female competitor in the UKBFF/NABBA ranks that has not done something in the way of gear to get into shape....


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

Sylar said:


> Of course! It's much easier to slap them around when they are smaller than you too!


LMAO!!......my husband doesn't argue quite so much anymore:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Lou said:


> LMAO!!......my husband doesn't argue quite so much anymore:lol: :lol: :lol:


I can believe it, i bet you got the poor bastard doing the dishes too! :nono:

:lol:


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

i love the look of some female bodybuilders, they have such a great shape that i do find attractive with some of them....

some have pushed the envelope too far however IMO, i do not like the 34DD oil bag on pecs look


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

the difference being that you'd still look like a male, rather than having your gender put into question.

so what happens when a woman bodybuillder pushes the envelope so far she has in effect, removed all characteristics that would make her a woman?

there have been instances where i have seen some that would confuse anyone if there has not been a bikini instead of a speedo


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Vince said:


> I think the problem here is people judging female BBers by their looks.
> 
> They are Bodybuilders and they only want to be judged on their achievements as athletes, if they wanted to be judged on looks they would have entered a beauty pageant.
> 
> ...


Whether they are pretty facially isn't what's really being discussed though mate.

What if you went on stage with insane gyno?

You would have womanly characteristics that didn't suit you - the opposite of what women using test have.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2008)

Lin said:


> Fair play but to say someone looks like a tranny isn't very nice, side effects for women are irreversable as you know, she's still a human being at the end of the day, *as long as she likes the way she looks thats all that matters surely*.
> 
> Lin


Well said Lin:thumbup1: :thumbup1:

Ummm I'm guessing here but taking gear isn't something that 'just happens' to women. It's a look they want and have probably more than likely done the research. Whilst I don't think it's for me (but who knows?), why don't we applaud these women's dedication to the sport?!!! :confused1:

Guys, in the nicest possible way, women's lives aren't only about looking pretty to men y'know! :thumbup1:


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

i dont see why it should be rewarded, female bodybuilding has gone from having a Ms Olympia on a seperate date to being stacked with the mens Olympia for a reason.

The women have taken it to such an extreme that the fans are turning their backs on female bodybuilding and more focus on fitness/physique.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Hard body, highly sexed, big clit, likes training......... I'd have some of that please ta.

Beats fcuking a fat munter lying in her own pish outside the kebab shop on a fiday night

......with a snatch like a rotting clam!


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

nobodies questioning the ambition and drive to succeed where it is rewarded.

I'm saying that it shouldnt be rewarded for the good of the 'sport'.

progression and evolution of physiques is common through the decades, IMO this current path is not good for the future of female bodybuilding.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

hey...i would....as long as she aint got a todger bigger than my 2incher!!!!

everyone needs love!!!!

seriously....the androgenicity of AAS's etc have irreversible effects,such as virilisation(clitoral hyper-trophy),deepening of the voice,hirsutism(hairyness,chest,abdomen,face)....can cause the cessation of peroids,includes polycystic ovarian diseases....the list is endless!!!

but i remember answering a question like this before,and saying if a lady takes a predominantly male hormone,they will eventually become like a man,the most obvious would be the masculinity,jaw line....the effects of a androgens of which make most pre-pubescent boys become men!!!!

with the muscle mass increase,hair development,increased size of genitals.....mine stayed the same...cant win em all 2inches of real heavyweight man meat!!!

sorry...but those that i said previously are irreversible...check out denise masino....think lin found some good pic of her before!!!!

i guess i dont mind,its 2008 get your freak on!!!!

everybody needs love!!!!

clitoral hyper trophy or enlarged clitoris,will eventually develop into a small penis,the clitoral hood will enlargen to emulate a helmet....and your labia will fold in and grow nutbags to say it in layman terms,sorry...but depends on your bodies tolerance....everybody is different by DNA,as i always say....and some may be prone some may be able to tolerate high dosages....

if you have seen bigger,stronger,faster...then you'll see a woman on there that really has all the features of a man,from face to toe....and camel toe come nuts...but she is standing there saying i'm glad i kept my femininity...dont know who's mirror she was looking in????

but saying this women only possess minute amounts of testosterone....predominantly eostrogen....so counter balancing your levels too long can cause this the symptoms then the real problems!!!!

even a woman taking a small amount of streroids ,has an input way way high over the amount of their natural levels!!!!

i mean men only produce testosterone (produced from cholesterol,hence why levels go up,because synthesis in cholsesterol and produced in the leydigs cells of men)something like 20-39 years - 270-1,080 ng/dL (9.00-37.48 nmol/L) for men....

for women....premenopausal 10-70 ng/dL (0.35-2.43 nmol/L)

so slammin in about 1 vial of sust 250mg will be fairly heavy!!!

but if you wanna go all the way to the top...and are happy with yourself...and with what may come....go for it!!!!

i didnt wanna throw the science in cos i am knackered and cant think at the mo


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## «Fatman« (Jul 7, 2008)

Hmm interesting thread, i think i'll put the Mrs on test to help me find her clit.. 7 years married still can't find it.


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2008)

Incredible Bulk said:


> i dont see why it should be rewarded, female bodybuilding has *gone from having a Ms Olympia on a seperate date to being stacked with the mens Olympia* for a reason.
> 
> The women have taken it to such an extreme that the fans are turning their backs on female bodybuilding and more focus on fitness/physique.


Fair enough I do see your point *but* let's look at it another way. Maybe the number and standard of women BBers who now compete has increased so that they deserve the right to stand next to the men's Olympia? It's always been complained about that there were never enough decent female bb'ers because women were too scared to step away from the fitness/physique look....Maybe there is enough room for fans of both looks?



Incredible Bulk said:


> nobodies questioning the ambition and drive to succeed where it is rewarded.
> 
> I'm saying that it shouldnt be rewarded for the good of the 'sport'.
> 
> progression and evolution of physiques is common through the decades, IMO this current path is not good for the future of female bodybuilding.


IB your opinion is totally valid :thumbup1: but who defines at what point female bodybuilding has gone too far? And why should anyone, except for the competitors themselves? They put in the effort and make the sacrifices. Personally I don't believe that we, as bystanders, are really in a position to dictate where female BBing goes. :thumbup1:


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

But the fans have dictated where men's bodybuilding has gone to... there was the huge 300lb'rs like gunter/ruhl/ronnie/jay/nasser/yates.

now we are seeing lighter frames (still frikkin huge) but with no pot bellies or crazy mass where it has been thrown on my some mad scientist lol.

Ms Olympia was moved from its own date because the gate reciepts didnt warrant the expenditure, its become a side show to the main event (Mr Olympia) because if fans are already in the area to see the men, they are likely to see eveything they can at the same time.

Ask the big guys (named above) if they went too far with it and they will say no, it has earnt jay/ronnie sandows but for the latter it has only attracted smaller show wins against lesser competitors, even ruhl stated his look doesnt attract the judges favour any more.

i feel the blame lies with the judges for not giving a clear concise answer for what they are looking for, reports of them saying to competitors "25% less mass next year please" only confuses them when one woman wins with a physique that would push the mens class for a podium spot.

they reward whats infront of them and no efforts have been made to reduce the transexual limbo look through revamping the judging.

seeing dexter jackson beat bigger guys has sent a large message to male competitors, bigger is not better..... a similar message IMO needs to be sent through the female ranks.

maybe then will there be less desperate dan jaws etc


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Vince said:


> Does she look like a man?


She's gorgeous!


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## jimbo1436114513 (Mar 28, 2006)

Vince said:


> Does she look like a man?


Yes.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2008)

jimbo said:


> Yes.


Nope she doesnt look like a man, when it comes to comp they might have that manly looking but in the offseason, normally they get fatty and look more womenly dont they usually

also I think shes hot, I would date her


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## Dawn (Mar 6, 2008)

Vince said:


> I think the problem here is people judging female BBers by their looks.
> 
> They are Bodybuilders and they only want to be judged on their achievements as athletes, if they wanted to be judged on looks they would have entered a beauty pageant.
> 
> ...


That has got to be the most sensible thing I've ever heard a guy say about female BBing. :thumbup1:


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## SOUTHMAN (Sep 14, 2008)

true their bodies their lives. Its not a look i find attractive but i geuss there is plenty of female bbers who dont fine male bbers attractive! i respect the hell outta them tho for the dedication. Theres alot worse stuff women could be doing to their bodies tbh


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

Vince said:


> Does she look like a man?


looks like a shemale...but who cares,i'd pasty smash for the sake of it!!!!

seriously,course she a woman...and as people say...she is happy with what she is doing,so thats up to her...and welll done to on all that hard work...and she only really looks jawlined up and drawn in at contest time,when they are off season they look quite do'able as a woman...curvy a bit with musckles!!!!!!


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

Vince said:


> Does she look like a man?


 Yup, a tranny. Check the jawline.


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