# Frank Zane.... Possible natty??



## silver (Feb 18, 2010)

so what do we think?? could a body like Frank Zanes be acheivable natty??


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

no


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Unfortunatly no


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

hes got good proportions


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

i know this bloke is natty


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## Barman (Feb 29, 2012)

depends he is quite tall but if he did take anything i wouldnt think it be much and he deffo took T3 when all the guys started using it back in the day to get that super ripped look that cameo ut of no where back then lol


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Apparently Zane used a type of PH instead of AAS, he apparently had a chemist background and was able to make/design his own stuff.

I am led to believe though that he has shot his endocrine system to pieces as a result and is now on medication for the rest o his life.


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## silver (Feb 18, 2010)

in not 100% sure something like zane couldnt be possible natty. Ive seen some guys that look incredable and have never touched gear.


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## J H (May 13, 2012)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> i know this bloke is natty
> View attachment 97483


Is that Shane from team grenade?

He is a monster if he's natty


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## Barman (Feb 29, 2012)

The Vegetarian said:


> Apparently Zane used a type of PH instead of AAS, he apparently had a chemist background and was able to make/design his own stuff.
> 
> I am led to believe though that he has shot his endocrine system to pieces as a result and is now on medication for the rest o his life.


Oh wow really? dam ph are so much worse that ass from what ive seen anyway wouldnt touch em sides are worse and happen even at low a low dose just give me some test and dbol sorted


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

J H said:


> Is that Shane from team grenade?
> 
> He is a monster if he's natty


yes it is. he looks a lot bigger in the gym


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Can't see many people (if anyone) being able to get their legs that shredded especialy holding onto that much muscle while being a true natty i.e. not dodging regulations.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I find it amusing how people believe someone without question just because they say they don't do any gear. Unless you're with that person 24 hours a day there is absolutely no way you can know if they are truly natural or not.

I hate to break it to you guys but people lie...and there are many reasons why a person might not want you to know they are taking gear, even if you've known this person your whole life. It's a FACT.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> i know this bloke is natty
> View attachment 97483


How do you know?

Oh wait...bet he told you didn't he


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

he gets tested and polygraphed in his comps


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## newborn (Nov 29, 2011)

I cant believe some of the posts here

WOW

I thought this was UK-Muscle not bb.com


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## newborn (Nov 29, 2011)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> he gets tested and polygraphed in his comps


doesnt make a difference, its common knowledge that there are many ways to pass a polygraph (you can learn in about 20 mins just looking online) and there are a million substances which are out of your system in 24 hours

wake up people...


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Im pretty sure there is ways around everything if your clever enough.


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## newborn (Nov 29, 2011)

The Vegetarian said:


> Apparently Zane used a type of PH instead of AAS, he apparently had a chemist background and was able to make/design his own stuff.
> 
> I am led to believe though that he has shot his endocrine system to pieces as a result and is now on medication for the rest o his life.


where did you get this info? source?

Pretty sure he used the same stuff everyone else was using, definatly primo at very high doses


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## newborn (Nov 29, 2011)

finlay04 said:


> View attachment 97474
> so what do we think?? could a body like Frank Zanes be acheivable natty??


"can you achieve the physique of a mr. olympia known to have some of the worlds best genetics and was on a ton of gear with 18 inch arms at 5'9 6% bodyfat"

you have to be a bit special mate


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## NO-IDEA (Jun 28, 2012)

Yes it is possible. He was barely over 90 kg in the off season. He was proportionally amazing, his muscle mass was not, and is still not impressive.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> he gets tested and polygraphed in his comps


Must be 100% natty then....


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

NO-IDEA said:


> Yes it is possible. He was barely over 90 kg in the off season. He was proportionally amazing, his muscle mass was not, and is still not impressive.


But I would rather look like him than some of the mutants you now see on the stage.


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## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

possibly my favorite ever bodybuilders physique....looks awesome


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

retard thread


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## airkyd (Jun 9, 2011)

Barman said:


> depends he is quite tall but if he did take anything i wouldnt think it be much and he deffo took T3 when all the guys started using it back in the day to get that super ripped look that cameo ut of no where back then lol


frank zane was about 5ft 10 .... that's not really tall to me. he doesnt have that much muscle mass compared to other bodybuilders


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## romadose (Sep 10, 2011)

Unlikely, looks like he's on gear.


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## silver (Feb 18, 2010)

newborn said:


> where did you get this info? source?
> 
> Pretty sure he used the same stuff everyone else was using, definatly primo at very high doses


i heard this aswell a few times. Hes no idiot so it wouldnt surprise me


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## GeorgeUK-M (Oct 19, 2011)

does it matter?


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

GeorgeUK-M said:


> does it matter?


Yes, to me. Because for people like me who is trying to become huge naturally, its good to know that it CAN be done. But alas, so far ive found out its not. And to be honest mate, if ****ing ****es me off that to get to the physique I want, I need to use gear. I can train another 10 years naturally and still not be at my goal.


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Lmao no


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## Scottek (Sep 10, 2012)

Natty.Solider said:


> Yes, to me. Because for people like me who is trying to become huge naturally, its good to know that it CAN be done. But alas, so far ive found out its not. And to be honest mate, if ****ing ****es me off that to get to the physique I want, I need to use gear. I can train another 10 years naturally and still not be at my goal.


Tbh there's not very many big guys that can say there 100% natural if there's not on steroids it's something else , it's just something that goes hand in hand with size , in most cases


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

and the boundry gets all the more blurry the deeper you look into it. tbh ive been approached in the gym and asked what im running a few times, one the other night actually and just thought I was lieing to him when I said chicken and rice lol.


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## asc (Oct 9, 2010)

The Vegetarian said:


> Apparently Zane used a type of PH instead of AAS, he apparently had a chemist background and was able to make/design his own stuff.
> 
> I am led to believe though that he has shot his endocrine system to pieces as a result and is now on medication for the rest o his life.


As i pop the vits and the fishoils and the bccas and the ahem rest sometimes i feel like i will be on meds in some form for the rest of my life..

Doubt i will ever look like that though, sadly


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## asc (Oct 9, 2010)

Natty.Solider said:


> and the boundry gets all the more blurry the deeper you look into it. tbh ive been approached in the gym and asked what im running a few times, one the other night actually and just thought I was lieing to him when I said chicken and rice lol.


Gotta be seen as a compliment! :beer:

A lad i used to train with was/is a fairly big lad and natty too. He got asked this all the time..used to do his head in he said. I would be chuffed


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

newborn said:


> "can you achieve the physique of a mr. olympia known to have some of the worlds best genetics and was on a ton of gear with 18 inch arms at 5'9 6% bodyfat"
> 
> you have to be a bit special mate


Good post newborn.

Special needs to suggest that anybody can look like Frank natty. LMFAO


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

I know Frank wasn't natty but he is the only pro past or present whose physique I believe to be achievable natty and even at that it would have to be a natty with fantastic genetics. So for the average person then no its not achievable but for someone with fantastic genetics then I think yes it's possible


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## ianm2585 (Mar 14, 2010)

dig up some of zanes old training programs dont think he done them on vitamins alone


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

ianm2585 said:


> dig up some of zanes old training programs dont think he done them on vitamins alone


He didn't ask if Zane was natty if you read the first post


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## Viking88 (Mar 29, 2012)

Op tbh you shouldn't be looking at your goals based on pro bodybuilders, if your planning on staying natty. Just train, eat, sleep and be happy where ever you get. Genetics play a massive role even more so if your natty.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> he gets tested and polygraphed in his comps


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## davesays (Aug 9, 2012)

Sorry for thread bump, didn't see the need to make a new one. Have you seen Zane these days?



















Wonder what he's on these days :laugh:


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Zane was not a natty and he was called the chemist... but not because of his wizardry of chemicals and drugs LOL


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## davesays (Aug 9, 2012)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Zane was not a natty and he was called the chemist... but not because of his wizardry of chemicals and drugs LOL


He was given the nickname "The Chemist" due to his Bachelor of Science degree and, as he puts it: "Back in the day I took a lot of supplements and tons of amino acids. Still do. But back then it was pretty unusual. That's how I got the nickname The Chemist." There was also a perception that his nickname was given because he was very scientific in reaching his peak on the exact day of competition, year after year.

Seems legit :rolleye:


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Yup, sounds right.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> I hate to break it to you guys but people lie...and there are many reasons why a person might not want you to know they are taking gear, even if you've known this person your whole life.


dozens and dozens of bodybuilders i knonw have all lied about juice usage - very few admdit off the bat -


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

anabolik said:


> I find it amusing how people believe someone without question just because they say they don't do any gear. Unless you're with that person 24 hours a day there is absolutely no way you can know if they are truly natural or not.
> 
> I hate to break it to you guys but people lie...and there are many reasons why a person might not want you to know they are taking gear, even if you've known this person your whole life. It's a FACT.


I agree, but I also find it amusing how so many here are so quick to jump on the "definitely on gear" band wagon. Obviously in this case it's highly likely that it's justified but not always.



newborn said:


> doesnt make a difference, its common knowledge that there are many ways to pass a polygraph (*you can learn in about 20 mins just looking online*) and there are a million substances which are out of your system in 24 hours
> 
> wake up people...


That is a laughable statement. While I agree that the polygraph isn't 100% accurate, learning how to do it on-line with no previous experience on how your reactions to certain questions effect the results would almost certainly result in a fail. It takes years of practice with the actual machine to be able to beat it effectively.



newborn said:


> where did you get this info? source?
> 
> *Pretty sure he used the same stuff everyone else was using, definatly primo at very high doses*


Where did you get the highlighted info? Genuine question, I've never read anything on Zane's usage so would be interested to read about it.


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## scouse2010 (Mar 17, 2010)

What do you guys think of vince gironda people say he was natty but he looks too good for that to be true


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## DigIt (Jun 20, 2012)

scouse2010 said:


> What do you guys think of vince gironda people say he was natty but he looks too good for that to be true
> 
> View attachment 99888


looks doable natty


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## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

^ this.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

yeah frank was clean as a whistle......FACT

he overdid the eggwhites on occasion....FACT

He was called @the [email protected] because he lived above a Boots Pharmacy in Croyden..............hi heaviest weight was actually just over 11 stone.....

you guys know fuk all = seriously


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

passing a polygraph is p1ss easy....u just recite the fools and horses theme, thinking of whats for tea whislt answering questions.FACT

I got off death row in 77 doing exacty this


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Uriel said:


> ....hi heaviest weight was actually just over 11 stone.....


I doubt he was just over 11 stone.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

kingdale said:


> I doubt he was just over 11 stone.


but you believed the rest??:laugh:

man i'm good


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Zane is on record in an interview somewhere talking about using AAS - I can't find it, but somewhere in an old thread I think on bb.com there's a link to it.

From what I recall he claimed not to be a heavy user (but then compared to most guys now none of them from that era were) - T3 and dbol were his mainstays. Apparently after he retired he started experimenting with GH and slin, but they weren't around during his olympia days.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

kingdale said:


> I doubt he was just over 11 stone.


The joke aside, I remember reading, way back, that Lee Lebrada's on-stage weight was suprisingly light. I know he was pretty short, mind, plenty of pros over the years have been, but all the same, if it was true, it was suprising. Most likely, hyperbole, though - because many "truths" are stretched awfully fvcking thing in the rhetoric of those that shout about it.


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Jaff0 said:


> The joke aside, I remember reading, way back, that Lee Lebrada's on-stage weight was suprisingly light. I know he was pretty short, mind, plenty of pros over the years have been, but all the same, if it was true, it was suprising. Most likely, hyperbole, though - because many "truths" are stretched awfully fvcking thing in the rhetoric of those that shout about it.


Lee is about as tall as tinytom. Hence his stage weight. tinytom is actually bigger in size and weight than Lee every was!


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Uriel said:


> but you believed the rest??:laugh:
> 
> man i'm good


nah that was the only bit i could find proof was wrong though, i can never tell when your being serious


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Zane was not a natty and he was called the chemist... but not because of his wizardry of chemicals and drugs LOL


then why was the name given..... he does have a degree in chemistry.... or was he the best dealer around lol


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

i think if arnie and zane had a rematch now zane wud wipe the floor with him... arnie needs to get back in the gym...


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

I think anything is achieveable (within reason) naturally training, it just takes many many more years of hard work..

if you've got the right genetics and you're dedicated, frank zane body could be done IMO.. maybe not quite the conditioning he is in that pic, but id like to think its possible

too many people just give in after 6months training and jump on the aas bandwagon.. these people usually are the ones who quit a few years later down the line, but **** it, put your mind to it and you can do a lot


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Genetics obviously in this guys favor, but this is George Eiferman circa mid and early 1950's, a bodybuilder from the pre steroids age - physique definitely built natty and shows just what you can do natty without the argument being tainted with claims like "he might have juiced but lied about it":


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## Mighty Sparrow (Apr 10, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Genetics obviously in this guys favor, but this is George Eiferman circa mid and early 1950's, a bodybuilder from the pre steroids age - physique definitely built natty and shows just what you can do natty without the argument being tainted with claims like "he might have juiced but lied about it":
> 
> View attachment 99912
> View attachment 99913


Maybe he juiced secretly h34r:

If I was the first person to discover the use of AAS for human muscle growth I'd keep it quiet


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

Frank Zane.......possibly natural .......... Lmfaro

Some people are just deluded

And what difference does it make if some guy is natural or not? Peoplel are too hung up on trying to achieve someone else physique

and it's never going to happen. Be yourself and make your own choices. Just stop being naive


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

Mighty Sparrow said:


> Maybe he juiced secretly h34r:
> 
> If I was the first person to discover the use of AAS for human muscle growth I'd keep it quiet


To my knowledge Athletes in the early 50's used gear. Even in WW2 The German army was given them .....

George Eiferman served his county in ww2 ......


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Mighty Sparrow said:


> Maybe he juiced secretly h34r:
> 
> If I was the first person to discover the use of AAS for human muscle growth I'd keep it quiet


Haha, well the very first suggestion of using testosterone for bodybuilding was way back in the late 30's, but it didn't become available until 1958... basically any pics of bodybuilders before then you can guarantee to be natty.


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

dtlv said:


> Genetics obviously in this guys favor, but this is George Eiferman circa mid and early 1950's, a bodybuilder from the pre steroids age - physique definitely built natty and shows just what you can do natty without the argument being tainted with claims like "he might have juiced but lied about it":
> 
> View attachment 99912
> View attachment 99913


i love these PRE STEROID stuff... 1950s imo is not pre steroid... and if sports men and woman were using them in the 1950ss... then so were bb etc...


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

The Big Dog said:


> To my knowledge Athletes in the early 50's used gear. Even in WW2 The German army was given them .....
> 
> George Eiferman served his county in ww2 ......


everyone alwasy say the germans... the germans were using them... the brits and yanks were to...


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

The Big Dog said:


> Frank Zane.......possibly natural .......... Lmfaro
> 
> Some people are just deluded
> 
> ...


They were used in the 40's in Russia (to unknown effectiveness), but the athletic and bodybuilding scene in the USA was actually free of use, apart from a small number of trials, because they couldnt develop stable/bioavailable esters at all in the few trials they did, and the results were the drugs at the time were considered ineffective - basically anyone who did trial AAS pre 1958 in the US used a drug that didnt work!

The first drug that trialed and worked was d'bol 1958, and that was used for olympic sports, but of course then quickly moved into bodybuilding afterwards.

The history is pretty interesting actually - google John Ziegler and his experiments and how he discovered/invented dbol.


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

griffo13 said:


> everyone alwasy say the germans... the germans were using them... the brits and yanks were to...


I've only read about German use but I wouldn't doubt other trials in the US etc


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

dtlv said:


> They were used in the 40's in Russia (to unknown effectiveness), but the athletic and bodybuilding scene in the USA was actually free of use, apart from a small number of trials, because they couldnt develop stable/bioavailable esters at all in the few trials they did, and the results were the drugs at the time were considered ineffective - basically anyone who did trial AAS pre 1958 in the US used a drug that didnt work!
> 
> The first drug that trialed and worked was d'bol 1958, and that was used for olympic sports, but of course then quickly moved into bodybuilding afterwards.
> 
> The history is pretty interesting actually - google John Ziegler and his experiments and how he discovered/invented dbol.


I looked and found the following - C&P

Steroids were first developed in the 1930's. The Germans first experimented on dogs and then on their own soldiers in the World War II, as well as used them on their prisoners to help them stay healthy because they suffered from significant malnutrition. Then in the 1950's many Russian and European athletes began to find that steroids were very beneficial to their goals and soon after began dominating the sport of power lifting, crushing previous world records. In the mid 1950's it was proven that testosterone was the reason behind the improved athletic ability by Dr. Ziegler. Soon after he and his labs were producing Dianabol or Methandrostenolone. A few years later, steroids were available on the market. At that time both athletes and doctors were using them alike on a regular basis.


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

The Big Dog said:


> I looked and found the following - C&P
> 
> Steroids were first developed in the 1930's. The Germans first experimented on dogs and then on their own soldiers in the World War II, as well as used them on their prisoners to help them stay healthy because they suffered from significant malnutrition. Then in the 1950's many Russian and European athletes began to find that steroids were very beneficial to their goals and soon after began dominating the sport of power lifting, crushing previous world records. In the mid 1950's it was proven that testosterone was the reason behind the improved athletic ability by Dr. Ziegler. Soon after he and his labs were producing Dianabol or Methandrostenolone. A few years later, steroids were available on the market. At that time both athletes and doctors were using them alike on a regular basis.


good reading.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

This is a pretty good blog here -



> *The History of Steroids in Bodybuilding*
> 
> Periodically on the various internet bodybuilding forums someone makes a completely baseless statement about steroid use, when it started, and who was using them back in the 'old days'. When I see ignorance being masqueraded as fact I almost always feel compelled to join the discussion and refute some of the often outrageous statements being hurled about. I'm going to recap what's known about the history of anabolic steroid use in sports so I can refer people to this entry rather than go through it time and time again.
> 
> ...


http://weightrainer.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/history-of-steroids-in-bodybuilding.html


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

dtlv said:


> This is a pretty good blog here -
> 
> http://weightrainer.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/history-of-steroids-in-bodybuilding.html


Looks interesting.....best get a cuppa tea whilst I have a butchers


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

griffo13 said:


> i think if arnie and zane had a rematch now zane wud wipe the floor with him... arnie needs to get back in the gym...


Not that I disagree with the gist of your point, there - but Zane has probably kept on with the training as, largely, his thing, his career in life.

Look what Ahhnuld has done in the intervening years. True enough, he may never be able to get back to the same degree of physique that Zane has (by largely staying focused on that), but I suspect it's only people at this sort of level that obsess about it. Given the choice of look like Zane, now, or achieve what he has, do what he has, and earned what he has (for good and bad) I wonder what he'd choose.

Nobody made Arnold retire from bodybuilding there was nobody on the scene in the mid 70s that truly threatened his dominance - he choose to move on to bigger, better things because he could. If he could have been content with merely bodybuilding he probably would have notched up a few more consecutive Mr Os after 75 (conveniently ignoring 80...).


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Zane was not a natty and he was called the chemist... but not because of his wizardry of chemicals and drugs LOL


Actually it was cause of he`s depth of knowledge of food and nutrition he was dubbed the chemist he put he`s knowledge of food and body chemistry into such good use that he was one of the early pioneers of advanced nutrition. As stupid as it is to believe you can actually ask the guy questions on he`s fan site Email him and ask as i did.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Moving the topic away from AAS and back to Frank Zane in general, here's a really good interview that sums up his training and diet philosophy - well worth a read.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/interview-with-mr-olympia-frank-zane.html


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

Jaff0 said:


> Not that I disagree with the gist of your point, there - but Zane has probably kept on with the training as, largely, his thing, his career in life.
> 
> Look what Ahhnuld has done in the intervening years. True enough, he may never be able to get back to the same degree of physique that Zane has (by largely staying focused on that), but I suspect it's only people at this sort of level that obsess about it. Given the choice of look like Zane, now, or achieve what he has, do what he has, and earned what he has (for good and bad) I wonder what he'd choose.
> 
> Nobody made Arnold retire from bodybuilding there was nobody on the scene in the mid 70s that truly threatened his dominance - he choose to move on to bigger, better things because he could. If he could have been content with merely bodybuilding he probably would have notched up a few more consecutive Mr Os after 75 (conveniently ignoring 80...).


yes i agree... but i just checked out picture of frank there today and his is over 70 and tbh hes is in some nick... there is no excuse for arnie not being in shape(for his age obviously)... none what so ever... thats why i said he should get back in the gym. as the saying goes...dont use it.. ya lose it...


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

griffo13 said:


> yes i agree... but i just checked out picture of frank there today and his is over 70 and tbh hes is in some nick... there is no excuse for arnie not being in shape(for his age obviously)... none what so ever... thats why i said he should get back in the gym. as the saying goes...dont use it.. ya lose it...


Thing is, that all assumes that the priorities that say, you, or possibly I, are the same as for Arnie.

Whilst exercise may always be something he does - he's had bigger fish to fry. The people you see of his era, still in better shape - well in fairness, they haven't had bigger fish to fry. That's not a criticism - just that when you've made millions independently of his career in bodybuilding, made millions in a career in films (note what I did there, not using the A word...), and had a serious role in politics as the governator, it's more easy to understand why he hasn't had the same focus on his physique that others of his era have (say Zane, Ferrigno, maybe some others...).

They have no bigger, better, deal - he did. He may care little that they have much better physiques than him, now - maybe than he could achieve, now - I'm just not convinced he'd trade what he's done, achieved and realised, merely for the opportuinity to still have a physique that compares with those that realistically probably had nothing better to do with their time.


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

Jaff0 said:


> Thing is, that all assumes that the priorities that say, you, or possibly I, are the same as for Arnie.
> 
> Whilst exercise may always be something he does - he's had bigger fish to fry. The people you see of his era, still in better shape - well in fairness, they haven't had bigger fish to fry. That's not a criticism - just that when you've made millions independently of his career in bodybuilding, made millions in a career in films (note what I did there, not using the A word...), and had a serious role in politics as the governator, it's more easy to understand why he hasn't had the same focus on his physique that others of his era have (say Zane, Ferrigno, maybe some others...).
> 
> They have no bigger, better, deal - he did. He may care little that they have much better physiques than him, now - maybe than he could achieve, now - I'm just not convinced he'd trade what he's done, achieved and realised, merely for the opportuinity to still have a physique that compares with those that realistically probably had nothing better to do with their time.


dude that is such a good reply... i just wish i cud see it like that.. cause in my little head everyone has time for training(notice i said little head... its probably really big but thats muscle dysmorphia for ya)


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