# Catch Wrestling In the UK



## Dr Sick (Feb 18, 2010)

How come Catch Wrestling has such a small following in the UK?


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## joeedoom (Jul 31, 2009)

It's not part of our culture. How come cricket isn't played in the US? Same thing.


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

To say catch wrestling isnt part of our culture is completely incorrect.

Catch wrestling or 'catch-as-catch-can' was pretty much born in the UK before being exported all over the world, including to former parts of the British Empire such as India - who produce some of the finest amateur wrestlers in the world today - and the U.S where it formed the basis of what is now known as Colligiate wrestling which is pretty much practiced in every school in the U.S, aswell as Japan where it became the basis of what is now known as Shooto. Antonio Inoki (considered the father of Japanese professional wrestling and MMA) and Kasushi Sakuraba were both taught catch wrestling by British catch wrestlers Billy Riley and Billy Robinson respectively.

The reason that catch isnt practiced much is because its a tradition that we did a pretty good job of ostracising. It was practiced predominatly by travellers and carney folk who would put on a show for the people of whatever town they were visiting and was well known for its fierocity and violence with very few rules.

The vast majority of 'professional' wrestlers in the hey day of the UK wrestling scene that had its heyday between the 1960's and 1980's were taught at catch wrestling schools. I myself was trained in catch by one such former professional wrestler before eventually moving over to MMA where I trained in a couple of places before once more finding myself in a gym which is also primarily catch wrestling based.

Even today catch is known for its aggressiveness - this isnt Jui-Jitsu and its 'gentle technique' - and catch wrestlers are known for their power and tenacity.


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## YourMMA (Aug 20, 2009)

It's small because there are very few practitioners left. Although some of the greatest CACC guys to have lived were from the UK and the art was founded here, it isn't really known to many people any more. A lot of the old gyms like the Snake Pit etc. now only teach Olympic Wrestling, even when they coaches are very savvy with Catch.

It's a shame, but there are a few guys trying to brng it back. I was at a seminar with John Huskey last year, and Ian Bromley in Stockport is a very good Catch guy.


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

I trained with Roy Wood at the Aspull Olympic Wrestling club - an off shoot of the Snake Pit. Its ten years since I last trained there and Roy must have been in his 60's then but he was without doubt the toughest guy Ive ever learnt under. I hear that the club is still going strong and that Roy is still throwing people around for fun. The wrestling there was very much catch-style so I presume it still is today.

I currently train at Shootbox in Bury which runs wrestling, submission wrestling and MMA classes very much taught in the catch-style.


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## YourMMA (Aug 20, 2009)

Cool, who's the coach there?


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

Theres a couple. Guy called Scott Fairclough does the submission based stuff whilst Jason Ramm is the dedicated wrestling coach.


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## Levo (Aug 28, 2009)

Imo a major factor was everyone took up Oriental martial arts (Judo, Karate, Kung Fu etc) instead and homegrown martial arts pretty much died out.

People flocked to the other arts because they were exotic, well publicized, taught in a way that was accessible to a wider range of people and because of their perceived effectiveness. Those creating and spreading the arts were also well organized forming organisations, belt systems etc that helped the arts live and spread without relying on an individual person.

Nathan


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

Kaobon is starting to get a real following thru Brig - he teahes Luta Livre which is catch wrestling with extra/more submissions - lotsa fun had a few sessions myself and it was like BBJ on the ground (except more leg locks and cranks) but also alot of standup wrestling underhooks and reversals etc - I think brig is the only real teachet of Luta in the U.K but he is doing a great job from what people are telling me and from what I've read - spreading the word around the U.K.


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## ewrayzor (Jun 19, 2010)

hey brig just did a world tour and honestly had extreme couture asking to teach some seminars!

As for catch, it's still pretty big around wigan way which is where it all began


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## Dr Sick (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm from the US and only started learning about Catch within the last few years. I've had the privilege of attending a few of Billy Robinson's seminars here. I'll be going back on Jan 15 + 16 for another round.

It's very interesting to hear your guy's take from the birthplace of CACC.


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

Catch wrestling is a bit of a mystery in so far that its had far greater and lasting influence elsewhere in the world than it has in its country of origin.

Alot of famous American names such as Frank Gotch, Dan Gable, Randy Couture, Josh Barnett and Jeremy Horn were influenced by catch. Horn, who is one of my favourite fighters, is often considered to be a BJJ exponant but the reality is that he holds no rank in BJJ and based his fighting style around catch wrestling.

I dont know what the problem is here in the UK or why we for a hundred years or so have concentrated soley on boxing whilst ignoring other disciplines - even the ones we invented.

It may be something to do with the semi-illegal nature of catch wrestling during its prime over here or its extremely violent nature or it may be something to do with the fact that whilst American schools seem to embrace physical competition like wrestling in their schools we seem to shun it and want to 'protect' our children from it like it would be a bad influence.

Its amazing and somewhat saddening that in the U.S you could earn a place at a top university through your wrestling ability where as over here you would be lucky to find a place to wrestle at all. Speaking of which, I'm off to do some tonight!


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## Dr Sick (Feb 18, 2010)

Agentman said:


> Catch wrestling is a bit of a mystery in so far that its had far greater and lasting influence elsewhere in the world than it has in its country of origin.
> 
> Alot of famous American names such as Frank Gotch, Dan Gable, Randy Couture, Josh Barnett and Jeremy Horn were influenced by catch. Horn, who is one of my favourite fighters, is often considered to be a BJJ exponant but the reality is that he holds no rank in BJJ and based his fighting style around catch wrestling.
> 
> ...


That's why the question is so intriguing to me. It's such a rich and storied style. For it to not have florished in it's homeland in the way that say Judo has in Japan or ***** in Russia is so interesting to me.

It's funny you mention Jeremy Horn. He lives nearby and his and our school are bitter rivals. Many a time have our fighters crossed hands in the cage.

I'm not saying I'm an expert on the man, but from what I've seen of his style and the way his fighters fight, I don't see as much CACC influence as I do BJJ. In fact, his fighter, Demarques Johnson played guard against Erik Paulson's (and UK's) James Wilks and lost via Short Choke (more of a Catch Hold than a BJJ one).

Again, not trying to cause any fuss, I just think it's interesting is all.


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

I think the main difference between Catch and the likes of Judo and the reason why one has thrives in its country of origin whilst the other hasnt is down to the fact that Catch lacked legitimacy even during its pomp in the UK - it was a fighting style practiced at carnivals and by travellers.

Judo meanwhile is a sport developed from Jiu-Jitsu which was its self a traditional fighting style practiced by the warrior class of Japan as far back as the 1600's and where as catch was considered brutal, ugly and the past time of the dregs of society Jiu-Jitsu was considered graceful, artful and was the past time of the elite.

It may also have something to do with the differences between British and Japenese and American societies and social values. The Japanese have always been a martial society and martial arts have long been a factor in their society. The Americans meanwhile seem to desire and excell at physical competition and there is great prestige to be found in being the best at one physical endeavor or another.

In the UK however we always have and still do appear to consider physical confrontation either thuggish or morally below us and where as Americans, like I said earlier, can essentially get an expensive education on the back of their ability to wrestle or perform some other physical act, its still the case that in the UK that the majority of the best fighters of all ilks tend to come from the poorest areas and are people who otherwise might not be qualified to do anything else. Same applies to most other sports in the UK - footballers for example.

Its something I find incredibly disheartening - that American schools seem to prompt people to excell in whatever their chosen area of expertise is whilst British schools seem to be more inclined to push kids to have more 'realistic' expectations or just teach them to be good workers.

Wrestling, boxing or some other kind of martial arts programmes in our schools would probably do wonders for our kids self esteem and help tackle the growing problems with our kids health and weight but I doubt that we'll see such a thing in my lifetime.


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## KJ Gould (Jan 11, 2011)

Hey everyone, hope you've checked out Dr Sick's blog on Catch Wrestling at his website it's very good.

If anyone's interested in Catch Wrestling I'd like to plug my site at www.catchwrestlingunited.com

The blog's a little out of date but plenty of conversation is going on in the forums.

I'm not sure on the best coaches of Catch in the UK, but I'd go with anyone who learned under Roy Harris. In particular Shane Rigby who teaches Catch and MMA in Wigan, and I think is the wrestling coach at Kaobon gym in Liverpool (Paul Kelly, Terry Etim etc).

I agree, I think it's an absolute shame Catch has almost died out when it originated in Lancashire. There's also Cornish and Devonshire styles of wrestling which use a jacket and is similar to Judo. I would love to be a part of seeing Catch resurgence in the UK!

Thanks for reading!

KJ


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