# Atkins advice please



## Zebedy (Dec 27, 2004)

Is possible to gain/maintain mucsle growth whilst on the Atkins diet??

I am very lean and pretty muscular all over except for my belly. I would love to be able to see my abs for the first time in my life!! and have been told that 4-weeks on the atkins diet will help me shed my gut. I have a 38inch waist and would like to get down to about a 32-34 without losing any muscle.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the Atkins diet is not the best diet for a BB..

i would advise you to do a low carb diet with plenty of good fats.

the diffrences are

Atkins diet generally go for approx 20g> of Carbs and it does not seem to mind where the fats come from (saturated/unsaturated)

Low Carb diet for BB generally has approx 100g of carbs and the fats come from EFA's (Omega 3/6 and 9) plus you would up your protein to 2g per lb of bodyweight...


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## Conan (Aug 17, 2004)

if all you want to do is shed the belly then it is an effective way of loosing fat. depends on your goal really, if you are a serious bodybuilder then i wouldnt recommend it but a diet such as Pscarb describes.

if you just want to lean up and see your abs then give it ago!

Give it ago once see how it works for you. In this game its all about trial and error. It might work well for you or it might not. You will never know til you try it.

If you do try it keep your protein as high as you can.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yes, this will be fine for dieting down.

In ketosis the body can shed alot of fat pretty fast.

Why not give it a try for a month, after about week 3 you might slow down tho.

I myself love the Atkins diet, I just dont like staying on it for extended periods of time.

I would take about 12 fish oils a day with your meals, this will help in ways that I cant discribe here like aiding in the manufacture of Eicosanoids.

My favorite diet that I have used was The Zone Diet by Barry Sears.

Now, I just got ChefX's book in the mail yesterday and alot of guys rant about that way of eating. I have not used the diet nor read all the ingredients in it but I will start reading it today.


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## Zebedy (Dec 27, 2004)

I've read that on the atkins diet the body gets the energy it needs from bodyfat and from your muscles. Question is does it take from fat stores first and then from your muscles, or a bit of both?? I was thinking of staying on the diet only until my belly had gone, and then returning to a regular diet before it starts eating away at any muscle....hope this all makes sense!!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Atkins diet rocks. You can eat veggies just dont exceed the 20 grams of carbs in the first 2 weeks. Look at all the food that you can eat. Click here.

Just eat the above veggies.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

although i do agree that if you are just wanting to lose weight the Atkins diet is a good way to go as long as you can stick out the first 2 weeks and that you don't overdo the Trans/Saterated fats..

but Zebedy's question was can you build muscle on the Atkins diet inmo you cannot otherwise all competing bb's on a low carb diet would increase muscle mass when they diet but they don't.

to gain muscle you must eat Carbs it is that simple now i am sure there will be one or two genetic freaks who post a reply saying they have gained 20lbs of muscle on 20g of carbs per day..

so the simple answer is

yes you can diet and lose fat whilst keeping the muscle you have already attained on the Atkins diet as long as the Protein is kept high....but you won't gain muscle whilst following this kind of diet.........


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Dont lump all low carb diets into Atkins diet.

Carbs are not my friend. I have been dieting hard with all good carbs and cardio everyday. I have only lost 4 pounds in 34 days and am way more muscular.

Can you add muscle and loose bodyfat?........yes. I have done it. Just be smart with the carbs that you use or should I say choose.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

who's lumping all low carb diets into the Atkins diet....??

so you have lost 4lbs in 34days but you are "way more muscular" that is strange seeing as muscle weighs more than fat you should really be gaining weight???? you are a true genetic freak....

because you have dropped those 4 pounds you are going to look more muscular due to definition but that doesnt mean that you have gained muscle...

like i said before you if you could ADD muscle(not retain muscle) and lose bodyfat at the same time on a restricted carb diet then when most BB's diet for shows they would gain muscle but in fact most lose a small amount over their dieting period...

i do agree though that the key to losing weight is to be smart with the carbs you choose..


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## Pete1436114491 (Nov 3, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> so you have lost 4lbs in 34days but you are "way more muscular" that is strange seeing as muscle weighs more than fat you should really be gaining weight???? you are a true genetic freak....


Maybe Winger has lost,say 20 pounds of fat, but put muscle on, hence only a 4 pound weight loss. Therefore he would be way more muscular as he'd have put on 12 pounds of muscle (i think!)

Zebedy, you say you are very lean, but you can't see you abs? Which is it? I reckon I'm quite fat at the moment but I can just about make out my upper abs.


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## Zebedy (Dec 27, 2004)

Thanks for the advice guys, i will give it a go for a month and see how it goes. Couple more questions...1) as youre only allowed 20gms of carbs a day, which carbs are best. 2) Can you really eat as much meat,cheese and eggs as you like. 3) Do you pile the weight back on when you introduce more carbs after the first 4-weeks???


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## Zebedy (Dec 27, 2004)

Zebedy, you say you are very lean, but you can't see you abs? Which is it? I reckon I'm quite fat at the moment but I can just about make out my upper abs.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> so you have lost 4lbs in 34days but you are "way more muscular" that is strange seeing as muscle weighs more than fat you should really be gaining weight????


pscarb please explain to me how muscle weighs more than fat????? a pound is a pound no matter what it is made of.

Zebedy get all your carbs from salads(no tomatos)during the atkins the crunchier and harder to chew the better,stuff like cabbage celery and dark greens plus make sure all are raw dont cook the veg/salad.



> yes you can diet and lose fat whilst keeping the muscle you have already attained on the Atkins diet as long as the Protein is kept high....but you won't gain muscle whilst following this kind of diet.........


pscarb how do you think all the oldtimers used to build there muscle before steroids and supplements???????

They used lots of fats and protein aka atkins diet(man I hate that word atkins diet he just nicked the idea,soory rant over)


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

I'm with Pscarb I'm Anti-Atkins, I think it's an awful diet and before someone harps on about eskimoes I don't see many of them on bodybuilding stages 

lowering carbs and using better carbs is much better than taking no (well almost) carbs.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> pscarb please explain to me how muscle weighs more than fat????? a pound is a pound no matter what it is made of.


I'm sure he meant that the same physical size of muscle would weigh more than the same amount (size) of fat. And I'm sure you knew that's what he meant.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

> I'm with Pscarb I'm Anti-Atkins, I think it's an awful diet and before someone harps on about eskimoes I don't see many of them on bodybuilding stages


Probably because they have got more sense,lmao


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Probably because they have got more sense,lmao


lol


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Thanks Biker i knew someone would be padantic about what i said....

cookie ...

the old timers built muscle like many of us do now (with or without AAS/Supplements) but my comment was not about building muscle it was about building muscle whilst losing fat on a low carb diet of 20>g carbs per day....

i have said it before in this thread and i will say it again for those who just like to argue if it was possible to INCREASE muscle size whilst LOSING fat then every Competing Bodybuilder on the planet would gain the most muscle when dieting for a show and then there would be no reason for an "OFFSEASON".....

when you lose weight (Fat or Water) you will look more muscular that is a fact i have pics of me 1 week from my last show that shows me looking more muscular than before i dieted but i was 28lbs lighter.......i was not more muscular i was more defined there is a massive diffrence......

Pete the only way to tell if you have gained muscle but lost fat is by BF% for example if at the begining of the diet you weighed 200lbs at 10%BF and at the end you weighed 200lbs @ 5%bf that is when you can honestly say you have gained muscle and lost BF .........now if anybody can show me proof that they dieted using the Atkins or a low carb diet and stayed at the same weight throughout and lowered their BF% i would love to see it......


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> when you lose weight (Fat or Water) you will look more muscular that is a fact i have pics of me 1 week from my last show that shows me looking more muscular than before i dieted but i was 28lbs lighter.......i was not more muscular i was more defined there is a massive diffrence......
> 
> ......


My training partner is a prime example of this. he look alot bigger than he ever has when infact he is about a stone if not more lighter than he was previously.

Its all an illusion imo. Someone i respect once told me its not possible to gain muscle without gaining on the scales and vise verca for loosing fat and loosing on the scales.

Im not a fan of an all out Atkins diet but a good low carb diet isnt to bad for shedding fat.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Biker said:


> I'm with Pscarb I'm Anti-Atkins, I think it's an awful diet and before someone harps on about eskimoes I don't see many of them on bodybuilding stages
> 
> lowering carbs and using better carbs is much better than taking no (well almost) carbs.


LMFAO at the Eskimoes!!!

Well not them in particular but that comment was funny.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> like i said before you if you could ADD muscle(not retain muscle) and lose bodyfat at the same time on a restricted carb diet then when most BB's diet for shows they would gain muscle but in fact most lose a small amount over their dieting period...
> 
> i do agree though that the key to losing weight is to be smart with the carbs you choose..


First off I said the Atkins diet rocks. I am not on an Atkins diet.

I swithched the sh1t carbs for the good carbs and limiting the carbs by doing that.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

in the quote you have taken where does it mention that i have said you have made that statement???

and you are taking this personelly why???


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

pscarb

They did gain muscle and "maintain" relativley low levels of bf whilst on low carbs granted they werent as ripped as todays monsters but ripper was a thing back then that you actually got marked down for,but they were a heck of a lot leaner than a lot of bbers you see nowadays in the offseason

As for your use of the term of season and bulking/gaining the original use of the term "offseason" refered to being "off gear" after the competitive season and in a lot of cases loosing weight,just look at old pics of arnold franco etal and see how much they used to loose,also mike christian and gary strydom were also great fans of loosing weight in the "off season" and eating their way back upto competitive weight hence its ability to keep the skin tight.

At the end of the day each to his own.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont think he is taking it perosnally.

I think he is defending the keto approach for losing bodyfat and maintaining lean muscle mass.

Even ChefX book is lower in carbs and higher in fat than almost every other diet that I have seen for bodybuilding.

Does it work?........Ask Jimmy.

All bodybuilders drop carbs to diet down. They also drop fats too and this is where I think many bodybuilders make there mistake.

You say that you cant gain lean muscle mass without carbs, I say this statement is wrong.

The body needs fuel, this can come from many diffrent sources including protein which is what most of the muscle is made of. Like walking around canabolizing your own meat.

Fuel can come from FFA and fats.

Once the body switches from carbs for fuel to fat for fuel there is significant fat loss.

I have read many studies that high fat, low carb diets spare lean muscle mass better than other dieting approaches.

If you want the studies, I have no problem placing them in this thread but it will make for a long read. Dates, Dr's and percent of fat loss. All clinical studies.

I do think you can gain lean muscle mass on a high fat, low carb diet but it wont be as drastic.

When taking in protein and fats some does get converted into glycogen so you arnt totally void of carbs even when not taking them in.

I dont think he was taking it personal though PScarb, its not an arguement where one has to be right or wrong but what works for one does not work for all. The Ketogenic approcah works for some but not all.

So to say something is wrong this is infact wrong when you are talking in a generalized statement that encompases all.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

I think you are all wrong. The kebab diet is the way to go!!!!!!

Dan Duchaines BodyOpus diet is a combination of 5 days keto followed by 2 days carb up so you get the best of both worlds. Even on this diet though although minimal Duchaine does say some muscle loss is inevitable even though it is a small amount.

There is no right or wrong way but at the end of the day as long as we reach our goals i aint bothered how anyone does it as long as i can have my cheat meals lmao!!!

Infact im real hungry today so i feel a special kebab coming on as when i start Diatia im gonna have to stick to it to the letter.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah Baby!!!!  ...................Right!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Yeah rod but the bodyopus diet was altered to 5 low carb 2 high carb because duchaine realised most if not all bbers could follow his original diet which was over 10 days not 7 like in bodyopus.

me personelly i like higher fat diets cos they taste better,lmao,man who wants to eat fu5king rice and tuna or baked spud and chicken breast when you can have steak and a double cream sauce.

Make no wonder fat people are always happy,they eat all the best tasting food,roflmao


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> in the quote you have taken where does it mention that i have said you have made that statement???
> 
> and you are taking this personelly why???


Not personal mate.  If I have rubbed you wrong in any way I appologise.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

winger said:


> Not personal mate.  If I have rubbed you wrong in any way I appologise.


Winger why would you be rubbing Pscarb?????


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

robdog said:


> Winger why would you be rubbing Pscarb?????


I like short big guys.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have nothing else to add to this thread i am sure he will decide which way to go....


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

winger said:


> I like short big guys.


Hey, you must love me then


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> i have nothing else to add to this thread i am sure he will decide which way to go....


Can I ask who "he" is? Cause I am getting a little jelous.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The original thread was asking for advice on Atkins (keto diet).

It works for some and not for all.

Try it out and see.

The body is really smart, smarter than me and you!


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## jas uk (Sep 7, 2004)

sorry bit of a hijack here but on a keto diet can you eat as much fat and protien no matter how many calories?Say using the 10x body weight thing mine would be 1700 could I eat say 3000 keto calories and still lose?

replies from high fat fans please ie wingman and OCS

cheers


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Probably because they have got more sense,lmao


Eskimos are podgy though aren't they?

SD


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

jas uk said:


> sorry bit of a hijack here but on a keto diet can you eat as much fat and protien no matter how many calories?Say using the 10x body weight thing mine would be 1700 could I eat say 3000 keto calories and still lose?
> 
> replies from high fat fans please ie wingman and OCS
> 
> cheers


Yea you actually could. But I dont think you could eat that much. Fats give you the sensation of being full. Sweet carbs just make you hungrier.


SportDr said:


> Eskimos are podgy though aren't they?
> 
> SD


They have round faces, that makes them look podgy with all the clothes.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

this is a funny post

lets clear some things up

You can gain quality muscle on atkins but only if you have a very large cheat day once a week this is called the anabolic diet at that point

you can get fat on atkins calories do count, but its very freaking hard as noted compared to the sugar guys, most bodybuilders screw up by eating too many carbs and too little fat for mass gain thenb turn around and do the extreme opposite cutting and mess that up. Slight adjustments (10% or so) off center (33/33/33) work best for everyone I have every tested and thats quite a bit.

eskimos can be fat and many are, but that comes from the sugars they eat and always have. what (used to) seperates them is the types of fat they eat are high in fish oils and omega 3's (the right ones from meats)

as far as atikins working for weight loss? yeah no problem IF you count calories as well. Yes you can eat more on atkins and loose weight (mostly fat) but you still have to lower your calories enough to cause that. Our ondergrond diatia is close to a keto style diet (borderline) but its for only 28 days max after that they need moderation for results that last and are healthy.

good luck


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## jas uk (Sep 7, 2004)

I have been reducing carbs since xmas and have lost 6lbs I do have pasta occasionally and have some spuds on a sunday so not truly keto but overall I'm on a 40/20/40 .With your help guys this could be a very good year trained before but never had a good diet so hoping for good results.

thanks

jas


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

SportDr said:


> Eskimos are podgy though aren't they?
> 
> SD


I wouldnt know as I`ve never seen one naked.

jas uk,i would personelly have about 20grms aday from salads and then every 4th day have a large carb up meal but dont have any protein with this meal just some good carbs also have a look at the link it should answer a lot of your questions http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2064


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## jas uk (Sep 7, 2004)

cheers OSC read it awhile back but just reminding myself that this is doing me good I hope.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

ChefX said:


> eskimos can be fat and many are, but that comes from the sugars they eat and always have. what (used to) seperates them is the types of fat they eat are high in fish oils and omega 3's (the right ones from meats)
> 
> as far as atikins working for weight loss? yeah no problem IF you count calories as well. Yes you can eat more on atkins and loose weight (mostly fat) but you still have to lower your calories enough to cause that.


Nice


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> I wouldnt know as I`ve never seen one naked.


I think Winger has though!! lol  he would travel so far North for a piece of a**


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