# Understanding PCT



## hackskii

Understanding PCT

PCT, what does it mean?

Post Cycle Therapy.

What does it do?

It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.

How long does it last?

Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.

Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).

So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.

Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.

The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.

Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.

So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.

What does this mean?

You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.

OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.

This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.

I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.

So, what can you do?

First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)

It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.

The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.

The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).

If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.

One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.

HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.

Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.

How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).

It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.

Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.

Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.

Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.

What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.

Ok, so lets put this all together.

There are a couple of ways you can do this.

First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.

Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.

That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.

So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.

You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.

By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.

I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.

I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.

I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).

So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.

Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.

Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.

I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.

If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.

Cheers.


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## hackskii

*This is what the doc wrote for the reason why clomid and nolvadex are to be taken together:*

Almost everything you hear or read will be anecdotal and therefore subject to no verification. Experiences with hCG while on TRT are posted. The use of hCG for PCT is only partly related to its use on TRT.

hCG while on TRT is used for 2 reasons. One reason is cosmetic. While on TRT it is not unusual and more often expected to have testicular atrophy. This is variable from individual to individual. The other reason is to act as a stimulus so the testicles do not shut down and therefore will be easier to initiate independent function after AAS cessation.

Desensitization is a potential problem with hCG. I do not think you will experience it with doses of 500IU or less 3X/week. Studies have used this dose for considerably long periods. In my patients when hCG was used while on AAS the dose was 1000IU every 3 days with one month on hCG followed by one month off hCG.

hCG for PCT involves additional concepts. This is the timing of hCG in relation to other medications for return of HPTA functionality. Under normal conditions the HPTA is a tightly coupled dynamic feedback loop. It is this coupling that has to be achieved after AAS cessation to return to normal. The analogy I use is the starting of a car by pushing it from behind. Alone the care will not start but with pushing the clutch can be popped and the car started.

After AAS cessation the secretion of LH is nil. It will not be able to initiate T production until a certain stimulus LH level is reached. Studies have shown that the time for this to occur can be lengthy. Thus the idea is to 'push' the testicles with hCG and get them started. Once T production is initiated the dependent variable is LH. If the hCG is withdrawn without adequate LH to couple with the testicles return of HPTA functionality will fail.

The increased production of LH is achieved by a dual action of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is a mixed agonist/antagonist (SERM) at the estradiol receptor. Clomiphene will increase the secretion of LH by action at the hypothalamo-pituitary area. Clomiphene will cause an increase in LH and secondarily increases in T and estradiol. Estradiol has a negative feedback influence on the HPTA. Estradiol is 200X the inhibitory effect of T per molar basis. Normal serum levels are the following:

Testosterone: 3-10 ng/ml (10-35 nM/L)

Estradiol: 15-65 pg/ml (55-240 pmol/L)

Tamoxifen will counteract the effect of the estradiol. Once the hCG is withdrawn the LH, initiated by clomiphene and tamoxifen, will couple with the testicles and take over production of T by the testicles. The levels of LH to maintain and couple with the testicles are maintained by clomiphene and tamoxifen. Clomiphene is continued for 15 days while Tamoxifen is continued for 30 days.

In healthy adult men, circulating levels of testosterone have a distinct pattern, with increasing levels during sleep toward a maximum around the time of awakening and a decrease during the day. In PCT hCG is administered every other day. I suggest the same time each injection in an attempt to simulate this rhythm. This is purely empirical but I recommend hCG at bedtime (2200). Clomiphene is taken in divided doses of 50mg 2X/day.


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## hackskii

*What about Vitamin E and recovery?*

1982 Jun;29(3):287-92.Related Articles, Links

Effect of vitamin E on function of pituitary-gonadal axis in male rats and human subjects.

Umeda F, Kato K, Muta K, Ibayashi H.

The role of vitamin E in the endocrine system, in particular the pituitary-gonadal axis, was studied in humans and male rats by examining the hormonal differences between vitamin E deficient and supplemented conditions. In vitamin E deficient rats, pituitary content and basal plasma level of FSH and LH were significantly lower than those of the control rats, but testicular content and basal plasma level of testosterone were not significantly changed. On the other hand, in vitamin E supplemented rats, FSH and LH content in pituitary tissue was significantly higher than that of the controls, but there was no significant rise in basal FSH and LH level in plasma. The testosterone level was significantly elevated in both testicular tissue and plasma. It was also demonstrated that basal plasma testosterone and F.T.I. were increased in normal male subjects following oral vitamin E administration and the responsiveness of plasma testosterone levels to HCG was significantly higher during vitamin E administration than before administration. These results suggest that vitamin E may play an important and potent role in hormone production in the pituitary-gonadal axis in humans and rats.

PMID: 6816576 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Also, Dr. Shippen a TRT doctor suggested that men with a Vitamin D defiency had less responce from HCG.

Beings that Vitamin D only occurs naturally in oily fish and the yolk of eggs in foods, it needs to be supplemented, or you need to go out in the sun and have your face and upper torso exposed.

Funny thing, I think it was ChefX that suggested that sunlight could increase testosterone levels in men by 128%

In the summer time men tend to have higher levels of testosterone.

Dr. Mircole(sp) suggested that the RDA in vitamin D was far too low, and influenza can be minimised by larger doses of D.


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## hackskii

I combined some posts together and re-stuck this thread.

I may be adding in more information here.


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## Guest

Just would like to say thank you for posting this mate.

I will be following that outline protacol looks very smart to me:thumbup1:


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## Stevro

Great post, clearly put!


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## Robbyg

Exellent post as always Scott .

Still will help alot of guys understand why Pct is needed after a cycle:beer: :beer: :beer:


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## jabsy

Cracking information mate.

I am now on day 15 after my last jab and have the correct amount of kit to give your protocol a go. I was pondering how i would go about it, but reading your post makes plenty of sense.

I will follow your way and let you know how i get on.

Thanks for the info. :beer:


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## Cap'n Beefy

Great thread, clear and informative. Ta. One question.

Any idea on the length of time for the little Sertoli swimmers to be back in the game and ready for action?? :confused1:


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## hackskii

> Great thread, clear and informative. Ta. One question.
> 
> Any idea on the length of time for the little Sertoli swimmers to be back in the game and ready for action?? :confused1:


Could take from months to a year, depending on how long you were on, what you were taking, genetic disposition, but lets just say that is the last stuff to come back online.

So, if you are considering having children, I would keep the cycle away from that.


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## Ecksarmy11

Fantastic post Hacks.

That's the clearest I've ever heard ANYONE explain PCT.


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## Guest

hackskii said:


> Understanding PCT
> 
> PCT, what does it mean?
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy.
> 
> What does it do?
> 
> It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
> 
> How long does it last?
> 
> Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
> 
> Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
> 
> So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
> 
> Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
> 
> The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
> 
> Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
> 
> So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
> 
> OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
> 
> This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
> 
> I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
> 
> So, what can you do?
> 
> First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
> 
> The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
> 
> The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
> 
> If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
> 
> One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
> 
> HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
> 
> Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
> 
> How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
> 
> It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
> 
> Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
> 
> Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
> 
> Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
> 
> What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
> 
> Ok, so lets put this all together.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can do this.
> 
> First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
> 
> Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
> 
> That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
> 
> So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
> 
> You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
> 
> By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
> 
> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
> 
> I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
> 
> If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
> 
> Cheers.


I am new to this site can someone pls help,

I started a cycle about 6 months ago with Test E, I only cycled for about 3 weeks and got some great gains. This was just an initial starter, since I stopped the course I had some bad acne on shoulders, chest and back. Its now been 6 months and I lost alot of the gains as my diet is now crap and I am not training. I want to start another course and get back into the gym I have the following to hand;

* TEST ENANTHATE (IRANIAN) AND TEST CYPIONATE (PROCHEM LABS)

*DIANANBOL 10MG TABS (PROCHEM LABS)

*ARIMIDEX 1MG TABS (PROCHEM LABS)

*PROVIRON

*1500 I.U HCG ONLY 1 SHOT

*NOLVADEX 70 TABS (NOT SURE OF LAB, YELLOW TABS NO LABEL. NOT SURE IF THESE R REAL)

I want some advice as to what is the best length of course to do and when to kick in the PCT, I dont know how and when to take the HC, should it just be mixed and taken straight away or stored?

I am just worried about the acne coming back

Any help would be much appreciated,


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## hackskii

Hey, do you mind starting your own thread?


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## Cap'n Beefy

If one wanted to add in some Proviron to rapidly improve sperm count, at what point in the PCT protocol outlined above would it best be started??


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## hackskii

Cap said:


> If one wanted to add in some Proviron to rapidly improve sperm count' date=' at what point in the PCT protocol outlined above would it best be started??[/quote']
> 
> There are much better things to use to improve sperm count than proviron.
> 
> I personally dont feel it is necessary, unless you have a problem with that or you are crashed and need some added androgens, at this point you failed PCT anyway.
> 
> If erections are an issue then yah, you can add some proviron.
> 
> But in a good PCT, this all wont be necessary.


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## lethal86

Great thread, i've never done steroids, but i like to read about things like courses and PCT as i honestly do see myself doing them in the future, maybe a couple more years yet!


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## YoungGun

So is HCG needed? I was under the impression clomid and nolva would suffice for pct, maybe even nolva in small doses through the cycle. Hcg is pricey, example being 10 week sust course, would you recomend HCG? I'm confused weather it's a must? :confused1:


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## SD

YoungGun said:


> So is HCG needed? I was under the impression clomid and nolva would suffice for pct, maybe even nolva in small doses through the cycle. Hcg is pricey, example being 10 week sust course, would you recomend HCG? I'm confused weather it's a must? :confused1:


Depends on dosage and compounds, some shut you down more than others, Deca for example.

A low dose sust course may not need it or at least it wont be essential, someone taking 1g of sust with 600mg of deca per week will undoubtedly need it.

SD


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## YoungGun

SportDr said:


> Depends on dosage and compounds, some shut you down more than others, Deca for example.
> 
> A low dose sust course may not need it or at least it wont be essential, someone taking 1g of sust with 600mg of deca per week will undoubtedly need it.
> 
> SD


 Ah that's a big help, i was only planning 500mg per week so i assume that a basic nolva/clomid pct would be fine. This is a right head fcuk! I've just spent ages writting relevant info i need from these forums! :thumbup1: Cheers mate.


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## SD

OKay gonna try to explain the PCT protocol another way:

You have just finished your 6-12 week course of AAS, be it an oral only, or a test+oral. test+oral+anabolic.

At this point in time your nuts have gone to sleep, the artificial test in your system was detected by your brain who mistakingly thought your nuts were working too hard and shut that test factory down.

Well now you have finished adding in all that artificial testosterone and you want a break from AAS so you are going to try to restore your natural test with a PCT protocol.

YOu wait the required clearance times for the drugs you have taken, usually around two weeks, then begin.

Hacks protocol is this:

I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.

I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.

I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days

The HCG will fool your nuts into thinking the brain is telling them to wake up and start producing test again, this is good but when the HCG shots stop, your brain will still not be convinced and wont take over giving the orders, so at the same time you have to convince your brain that it needs to tell your nuts to carry on the good work ok?

This is where Nolva and Clomid come in, combined, these two compounds tell the brain its ok to start ordering the nuts around and to get on with it ASAP. So for the 16 days you are taking HCG, you are also taking clomid and nolva in the hope that by the time the HCG shots run out, your brain will be suitably convinced to take over the role of telling your nuts what to do.

Thing is, your brain isn't quite ready to wing it alone at that point so you actually continue the clomid and nolva, gently withdrawing them for a total of 30 & 45 days.

By the end of the 45 days your nuts should be producing ntaural test again and your brain should be giving the orders with no chemical input from you.

hth

SD


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## skaman007

hi sport dr,,regarding hacks pct protocol,,,,,.i have read on many other sites that hcg is advised thruout cycle,,and stopped one week before pct begins?for example,on a 12 week test deca cycle,,,,hcg would be used at 250iusx2 weekly from week 3-13?your thoughts on this ,,thanks


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## hackskii

I still get testicular atrophy even @ 500iu HCG at the end of the cycle.

I dont see a problem taking HCG right up to the start of PCT and even in PCT, providing an AI is used or at the very least nolva.

HCG is supressive to the pituitary and hypothalamus, but that fires up pretty quick with the use of clomid.

Id rather the nuts be ready than not as this is the single biggest hinderance for recovery.


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## skaman007

hackskii said:


> I still get testicular atrophy even @ 500iu HCG at the end of the cycle.
> 
> I dont see a problem taking HCG right up to the start of PCT and even in PCT, providing an AI is used or at the very least nolva.
> 
> HCG is supressive to the pituitary and hypothalamus, but that fires up pretty quick with the use of clomid.
> 
> Id rather the nuts be ready than not as this is the single biggest hinderance for recovery.


 hi hiacksi,,,im soon to start a 12 weeke test 500mgs week cycle

week 1-12 test e 500mgs week 25mgs proviron ed weeks 6-14

week 1-4 40mg dbol ed

weeks 9-14 50mg winstrol ed.

whats your advice for my hcg intake on this cycle?will start pct day after last winny tab,,which will be clomid 50mgx30days,and nolva 20mgx30days


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## hackskii

500iu twice a week, I would consider a mild AI in there and run it all the way to the start of PCT or drop it about 5 days before.


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## G.I. Joe Galway

Does anyone here use the stasis/taper protocal?

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/test_taper_protocol_1


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## G.I. Joe Galway

I can quoate the name of the study but i have read that HcG gives best results when injected 250iu EOD while on cycle!


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## SD

G.I. Joe Galway said:


> I can quoate the name of the study but i have read that HcG gives best results when injected 250iu EOD while on cycle!


I hear so many different doseage protocols for HCG during cycle it makes my head spin, thing is, without bloods, we are all just guessing, 500iu per week wont cause significant desensitisation of your nuts to LH so I have read so that would look like a good starting dose. If things are looking a little raisin like downstairs then up this dose to twice a week as Scott said imho. You can always add, you cant take back out.

SD


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## hackskii

I use 500iu twice a week and by the end of the cycle there is some atrophy, and I do use an AI.

Pulsing seems to be a sensible approach, but from what I have noticed, at 8 to 10 week cycle takes me 20,000iu of HCG to recover period.

It may be during, or at the end, or a combination of both, but it is 20,000 that I use and it works well.

I find it works best when I use during and up to PCT, even including in some of the PCT.

But then again, I may need more than some of the other guys.


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## Al_do

I recently finished a 500 sus pw/400 deca pw course. Invested in above PCT apart from HCG. Im a week into clomid therapy and testes are like raisins. Is it advisable to buy and start taking HCG now and if so how much?

Cheers


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## hackskii

Al_do said:


> I recently finished a 500 sus pw/400 deca pw course. Invested in above PCT apart from HCG. Im a week into clomid therapy and testes are like raisins. Is it advisable to buy and start taking HCG now and if so how much?
> 
> Cheers


You need HCG mate.

When was your last jab?


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## Al_do

hackskii said:


> You need HCG mate.
> 
> When was your last jab?


My last jab was 3 weeks ago. 4 days ago I took 1500iu of HCG and then another tonight. Ive not noticed much of a difference.

I only got one more jab of HCG left. Should I take this again in 4 days? Ive ordered 9 more just incase but no idea when they will arrive 

Still taking 100mg clomid per day.


----------



## hackskii

Al_do said:


> My last jab was 3 weeks ago. 4 days ago I took 1500iu of HCG and then another tonight. Ive not noticed much of a difference.
> 
> I only got one more jab of HCG left. Should I take this again in 4 days? Ive ordered 9 more just incase but no idea when they will arrive
> 
> Still taking 100mg clomid per day.


I would continue on actually, I am somewhat surprised that you have not noticed a change in anything yet.

You have no boost in libido at all?


----------



## BigOak

briliant post, cleared up allot of queries for me.

Thanx very much! :thumb:


----------



## SD

Al_do said:


> I recently finished a 500 sus pw/400 deca pw course. Invested in above PCT apart from HCG. Im a week into clomid therapy and testes are like raisins. Is it advisable to buy and start taking HCG now and if so how much?
> 
> Cheers


There was a post about HCG that Mars put up last week, it said assuming you didnt run HCG through the course, you should tak 40iuxnumber of days of cycle in HCG to kickstart your balls. 1500 probably isnt cutting it by that formula. Assuming your cycle was 8-12 weeks you would need between 2240iu and 3360iu just to kickstart.

There were no references in the article but as you are finding out, 1500 isnt enough so applying the formula above may help.

SD


----------



## Cap'n Beefy

SportDr said:


> There was a post about HCG that Mars put up last week, it said assuming you didnt run HCG through the course, you should tak 40iuxnumber of days of cycle in HCG to kickstart your balls. 1500 probably isnt cutting it by that formula. Assuming your cycle was 8-12 weeks you would need between 2240iu and 3360iu just to kickstart.
> 
> There were no references in the article but as you are finding out, 1500 isnt enough so applying the formula above may help.
> 
> SD


Presumably that doesn't keep tallying up if you've been on too long, ie months and months of blast and cruise?

There's an upper limit, yes? :confused1:


----------



## hackskii

> Presumably that doesn't keep tallying up if you've been on too long, ie months and months of blast and cruise?
> 
> There's an upper limit, yes? :confused1:


Sure is and if you dont have an AI or a SERM, you will end up with a nice pair of boobs.

I think the idea here is to use just enough for enough stimulation to aid in testicular function.

after all, If you dont get testicular function back, recovery is seriously compromised.


----------



## Cap'n Beefy

So, mucho reading later, herewith plan for recovery and impregnation of wife in minimum time possible following 18 months blast cruise (more cruise really) but including some deca, but with 20mg tamoxifen daily throughout. Balls shrunken but not raisin size as mentioned earlier in this thread by another

Starting 17 days after last 500mg shot of test enan. All other compounds long gone.

2500 hcg e3d 6 shots

50mg clomid twice daily 30 days

20mg tamoxifen once daily 45 days

proviron 25mg three times daily for 30 days starting when clomid is finished (studies show it is most effective when sperm count is low, not non existent)

vitamin E throughout

got some trib and horny goat weed for sh1ts and giggles too!!

Anyone spot a flaw, or recommend a better alternative.

Input gratefully received. :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

8 shots mate of the HCG.

Add some vitamin D in there during the HCG.

No aspirin.

Do the HCG shots at night if you can, but for me it makes it so I cant sleep.

If you got any HGH, or IGF-1, you can toss that in the mix with the HCG, it is speculated to help in the recovery process of the nuts.

But, if you can find some rFSH, then I would add that too, but you may be ok.

HMG for those that have a very hard time recovering.


----------



## SD

Vitamin E?

SD


----------



## hackskii

SportDr said:


> Vitamin E?
> 
> SD


Study is here:

Effect of vitamin E on function of pituitary-gonadal axis in male rats and human subjects. Umeda F, Kato K, Muta K, Ibayashi H.


----------



## Al_do

SportDr said:


> There was a post about HCG that Mars put up last week, it said assuming you didnt run HCG through the course, you should tak 40iuxnumber of days of cycle in HCG to kickstart your balls. 1500 probably isnt cutting it by that formula. Assuming your cycle was 8-12 weeks you would need between 2240iu and 3360iu just to kickstart.
> 
> There were no references in the article but as you are finding out, 1500 isnt enough so applying the formula above may help.
> 
> SD


Thanks very much. I'll be able to run 3000iu for next week for 3 jabs. Hopefully after that I'll be more or less sorted.

My bools are a lot better since doing the 2nd shot especially.

Hacksii- "If you got any HGH, or IGF-1, you can toss that in the mix with the HCG, it is speculated to help in the recovery process of the nuts."

I've got HGH too so I'll be mixing this with my HCG from now on. Cheers.


----------



## hackskii

I would jab them seperate but yah, no problem runnin them together, synergy and all that.


----------



## DRED

nice post scott....on the case  )


----------



## Freddo

Great READ! Thanks.


----------



## geezuz

Reps sent.


----------



## hackskii

geezuz said:


> Reps sent.


When?


----------



## stevep1941

would I need that amount of pct ie- hcg clomid and nolvadex if i was doing 500mg sustanon ew for 10 weeks??


----------



## scot.r111

Scott,

I know I'm going to come across as a bit clueless but I have read several mentions of running an "AI" through peoples cycles throughout this thread.

Could you let me know if this is something you advise, unless you are sure you dont suffer the associated side effects. Also, can you recommend a brand/type and dosage or is this dependant on what you are taking on a cycle? Also are these as difficult to buy as the steroids?

Any help really appreciated.

Scott


----------



## hackskii

Very easy to obtain, research sites have them for fairly cheap.

Arimidex, femara, aromasin all would work fine.

Dose would be tailored to suit either how much test you are shooting, or how gyno prone you are.

I like arimidex myself and run .5 EOD or up to 3 days @ .5

Of course if gyno does not subside then I would try up to .5 ED and go from there.

It will take a minute for some of the blood plasma levels to get up to speed.

If you dont suffer any estrogen related sides then yah, you can go without an AI.

Bit I am gyno prone now, and I always have one on hand just in case.


----------



## scot.r111

Thanks Scott,

Spot on, very easy to follow!

Scott


----------



## scot.r111

Scott,

Tried to send reps, I need to give them elsewhere before I can give them to you again. I'll come back to this and do it later.

Once again thanks


----------



## masterdandrews

scott, after reading your thread ive realised the pct is very serious and all you guys take it seriously, as do i but i have alot to learn. im on a cycle at the moment and have no pct ready for when i finish, im on the ranbaxy naposim (the real ones) along with creatine, protein shakes, l-glut, zinc, magnessium and multi vits, im drinking and eating more than a horse! il soon have some nolva for what i thought was only to help out with side affects such as itchy nips. So, 1000mg of naps over a 5 week course, what would you advise i use for a pct or how much for how long! sorry but we all gotta learn sometime so sorry if i sound absolutely useless. I understand what you have first said but still not sure what exactly to do, Thanks for your time and help!


----------



## hackskii

You more than likely will recover well, taking 30mg d-bol for 5 weeks would not be too terribly supressive.

Clomid would be a nice addition, I have found nolva to not be very effective at all, at least on its own.

You can probably be ok with just a 21 day PCT with clomid @ 100mg ED.


----------



## masterdandrews

excellent thats just what i wanted to hear, again thanks for your help!


----------



## Big Boy

this ga come across as silly i know, but just so i understand for the future aromsin?? is an AI like ADEX or it is ADEX?? cheers:confused1:


----------



## hackskii

Aromasin or adex is fine, I dont have that great of luck with the aromasin myself, adex works for me and does not effect my libido.


----------



## Big Boy

adex it is then cheers!!! :thumb:


----------



## Defius369

K i know this is prolly a dumb question, but some meds it doesnt matter if you drink. But would it affect your PCT meds if you drank during the nut rehabilitation period xD?


----------



## zossima

Hackskii, hi...

I've allready did some blood work after being superssed and I already have 470ng/dl testosterone, but still not recoverd, my normal range is around 850 or 900 so i would like to start a pct, i'm thinking to use clomid for 3 weeks and nolvadex for the entire 6 weeks.

Do you think i also need HCG ? i'm asking this beacause i'm allready producing 470ng/dl testo and maybe the testis don't need direct stimulation from hcg to produce more testo. just in increase of LH and FSH.

want do you think o wise Hackskii ? 

maybe a lighter pct with clomid alone for 21 days ?

thanks.


----------



## hackskii

I think you will do quite well with clomid and nolva.

Clomid at 100mg ED will double LH output, and increase FSH by up to 50%.

That is huge.

Personally I would take some Vitamin D and E during this time.

I would also take some DHEA if you guys have that @ 25mg ED or EOD.

Zinc or better yet ZMA at night before bed.

You will recover on your own if you decide to do nothing.

470ng/dl is more than what I produce but if you are young this might be a bit low.

Cheers and thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Tommo1436114510

Hi Haksii

That made for a very interesting read.

What doses of Vit E and Vit D do you recommend?

I'm just finishing Test prop 200mg EOD

Masteron 100mg EOD

Boldenone 100mg EOD

I've been on cycle now for about 10 months. Done 2 big courses and cruised in between.

How long after last jab should i start my PCT?

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Well, it would be about 3 weeks for that bold to clear.

1000iu on the E.

You will now doubt need some HCG in there after the 10 month cycle.

Could drop everything but the prop and then do a PCT 3 days from last jab.


----------



## Tommo1436114510

Brilliant, thanks for that Hacksiii.


----------



## Cap'n Beefy

Rather annoyingly, I finished my looonnnngggg cycle due to the wife's desire for another baby, but my hcg got stopped by customs.

I took the last jab about five weeks ago, and will be lucky if my hcg turns up next week.

I have been chomping down some clomid, tamox and proviron I have lying about, but my question is, when it finally arrives, do I need to adjust the dosages in the 45 day PCT due to having waited so long to start it? :confused1:

Thanks in advance Scott


----------



## hackskii

If you have not ran any HCG in your long cycle then yes, if you want to have a baby you need to get some of that in you.


----------



## zossima

Thanks for the reply hackskii  with 470nd/dl Testo. i still get low libido and erection problems so i need to get it up.. other hormone lvls like E2 are ok. but it's not the same having 15pg/ml E2 with 470ng/dl or with 920ng/dl Testo.

i'm 27 years old.

I'll take you advice in consideration, thanks for the kind information and direction 

I don't know if i'm confident in taking meds again, i got hypogonadism from using finasteride 1mg for 10 months, apparently it raises testosterone by 30%! with my allready high 927ng/dl it probably induced hypogonadism by execess androgens, don't know what else did to my organism and i'm a bit scared, allready on VIT.E probably gonna add DHEA and ZMA, if things keep improving very slowly like they have benn i' might jump on clomid nova combo.

thanks again master hackskii you knowledge and will to share it, have no doubtly, helped me (japanese honor bow).



hackskii said:


> I think you will do quite well with clomid and nolva.
> 
> Clomid at 100mg ED will double LH output, and increase FSH by up to 50%.
> 
> That is huge.
> 
> Personally I would take some Vitamin D and E during this time.
> 
> I would also take some DHEA if you guys have that @ 25mg ED or EOD.
> 
> Zinc or better yet ZMA at night before bed.
> 
> You will recover on your own if you decide to do nothing.
> 
> 470ng/dl is more than what I produce but if you are young this might be a bit low.
> 
> Cheers and thanks for the kind words.


----------



## zossima

O! my SHBG is quite high, and binding lots of my allready low Testo. anyone knows a good product (natural or quimical) to reduce SHBG ?


----------



## hackskii

An AI will lower SHBG and also potentially spark the testosterone production.

I think proviron does this too, I have to look that up but I think it does.


----------



## zossima

cool thanks!, i've been searching for ZMA right now, there seems to be allot of brands, don't really know witch one is the best. Is there a brand you would advice ?

thanks so much in advance for your help.


----------



## tom jones

I use MYPROTEIN ZMA.

Hackskii- Brilliant read this, you've taken a very complicated area(for me anyway) and made sense of it. Thanks........


----------



## hackskii

tom jones said:


> I use MYPROTEIN ZMA.
> 
> Hackskii- Brilliant read this, you've taken a very complicated area(for me anyway) and made sense of it. Thanks........


That is because I am of simple minds.........

Thanks mate.....


----------



## shaftymcnasty21

HACKSKII PLEAE HELP ME OUT--ok i'm on a 12 week cycle of test e.-300 mgs a week-equipoise 400 mgs a week..last 4 eeks 5o mgs of winstrol ed..i have 3 vials of 1500 iu hcg...and the recomended amount of clomid and nolvdex for pct...my question is should i ue the hcg at about half way through cycle or at end wth pct...when should i start pct i think 14-17 days is correct...and since the half life of oral winstol is much less should i start at like week 10 and take them up to pct...please help me out seond cycle and wanna be safe...first was really mild but no pct i wanna do it right this time...THANKS FOR THE HELP


----------



## hackskii

400mg of EQ will take about 3 weeks to clear.

What else do you have for your PCT?

Id suggest clomid and nolva in there, and for sure when you are going to do the PCT.

That is a tad bit light on the HCG but it may work if you are young and recover fast.


----------



## dman

hi guys im new to the forum and have a couple questions bout pct. can letro be used by itself? and if so at what dosage? and if u did use it would you have to taper down? thank you in advance.


----------



## Cowsfortea

Is it worth using proviron on top of hcg, clomid, nolv for pct?


----------



## hackskii

dman said:


> hi guys im new to the forum and have a couple questions bout pct. can letro be used by itself? and if so at what dosage? and if u did use it would you have to taper down? thank you in advance.


Me personally I would not use letro for PCT, driving down estrogen could compromise already compromised lipid profiles.

Nolva actually helps lipid profiles.

Clomid is well known to elivate LH and FSH.



Cowsfortea said:


> Is it worth using proviron on top of hcg, clomid, nolv for pct?


I think you can take proviron but I would personally wait till the end of PCT before adding that.

With the exception of sex drive is jacked then you could add it, but if sex drive is jacked then most likely not enough HCG was used to keep and maintain testicular function.

Fixing the source of the problem would be more wise than fixing the symptom.


----------



## Cowsfortea

Thanks mate,

Following the 45 day pct outline on the other thread so will stick to that, then consider proviron


----------



## hackskii

I just finished my PCT of 45 days myself, and I used proviron the last week at only 50mg ED.

I was somewhat surprised that the libido bump from that I noticed.

I am not even using the 150mg like many guys use or even more than that.


----------



## Cowsfortea

Sounds promising. Think i will plumb for that one. got to take a pretty long break after contest, been on cycle 16 wks


----------



## shaftymcnasty21

HACKSKII-----yes i do have the correct amount of nolca and clomid...when i got the hcg i thought it wa goin to be the 5000 iu but was only the 1500 version and cant get anymore so thats what i'll have to use...i was just trying to get the exact time i should start and with the above information you said 3 weeks so thats when i will start...but i was wondering since i am ging to be doing the last 4 weeks with adding prochem 50 mg winstrol ED...should i start that at week 10 since the half life is much shorter or start at week 8 and get off the winstol at the same time as the test and eq?...thanks for your time and help!!!oh and again should i do the hcg at the end with pct or like mid cycle...i am about 4 weeks in now...thanks again


----------



## p3rry

Thank you very much this has helped me out so much . But just a quick questions were do you get your suppliments from for this ?


----------



## djxl

have just started sus 250 only doing small cycle to test product will be doing 250 per week for 6 weeks could anyone help me with pct what to take when for how long and doses please ta


----------



## hackskii

djxl said:


> have just started sus 250 only doing small cycle to test product will be doing 250 per week for 6 weeks could anyone help me with pct what to take when for how long and doses please ta


Clomid would work just fine here.

I dont think you will see alot of gains with 6 weeks of 250 personally.


----------



## ste08

Hi Hackskii

Earlier you stated that with somebody being young they might not require a large ammound of HCG. For a 20 - 21 year old would still strongly recommend a HCG? I have just came off a 11 wk course of Test E & Deca, it was supposed to be 12wk but i got gyno! My balls havent shrunk which i can't quite understand why? I have the required PCT in place but unsure what to do regarding HCG.

Also, living at home with parents and with them unaware i am using AAS, how could i store my HCG in the fridge? Might raise a few questions. Is there any other form of it?

Your input would be great, cheers. Steve


----------



## hackskii

You could just get the 1500iu HCG and do a few shots of that with your PCT meds.

The deal with the HCG is simple, it depends on how responsive you are to it, no doubt young guys probably would respond to a lower dose as leydig cells tend to become less sensitive when we age.

It really depends on the person really, some guys wont even need HCG, others like myself will.


----------



## Guest

If your nuts have no shrunk then you probably will not need it.

I do love hcg though and find it the most important key of recovery....

I have been running hmg and find it very good also, 15 mins after the shot i get a boner lol.


----------



## hackskii

Con said:


> If your nuts have no shrunk then you probably will not need it.
> 
> I do love hcg though and find it the most important key of recovery....
> 
> I have been running hmg and find it very good also, 15 mins after the shot i get a boner lol.


Couple of things here.

Ball size has nothing to do with leydig cell atrophy as those only comprise of about 10% of the mass of the nuts.

Love the comment about 15 min after, boner action.

You are young and no doubt respond faster and recover quicker than us older ****........... :cursing:


----------



## Mickey knox

Quick question about HCG. Just done 16 weeks on Sustanon 8weeks Deca and used Pregnyl for HCG straight after my last shot. I had 3 amps of pregnyl and injected 1/3 of an amp every 3 days for 3 weeks running. After which I started clomid at 100mg for 2 weeks and will drop it to 50mg for another 2 weeks.

My nuts are still the size of marbles and libido is bad too. Looking at the doses you guys recommend for HCG, I think I may have been a bit light on it? Any tips or is it a question of riding it out until the clomid does its thing?

First cycle so I dont know how my bodies meant to respond. Thanks!


----------



## austen_18

i am currently on a course of oxymeth 50's can someone give me some information on what i should take an what dose's i should take for my PCT?? i have nolva/clomid but not sure if these are the right things to take an how to take them


----------



## Guest

hackskii said:


> Couple of things here.
> 
> Ball size has nothing to do with leydig cell atrophy as those only comprise of about 10% of the mass of the nuts.
> 
> Love the comment about 15 min after, boner action.
> 
> You are young and no doubt respond faster and recover quicker than us older ****........... :cursing:


Well they are larger than they have been in years, a total of 2 more hcg and 3 more hmg shots to go :thumbup1:

Hmg is very good also but i swear it makes me feel sick:confused1:


----------



## hackskii

I have read sickness is a common side.

Stay the course mate.

Big balls are a good thing mate.


----------



## sizar

Hi guys i'm planing to run 10 weeks sus at 500 mg per week. and kick start the 1st 4 weeks with 20mg of d-bol. what do i need for pct at what dose and .. what you guys recommend to run during the cycle to avoid gyno and shut down .. ? please help this will be first cycle.


----------



## hackskii

3 weeks from last jab start 100mg of clomid for 21 days

20mg nolva for 30 days.

If you got a little bit of HCG to bounce in the mix during the cycle, that would be more than welcome.


----------



## Alex The Kid

If one was on a 12 week course of 400mg cypionate and 400mg equipose per week how many weeks after would pct start?

I have 3 amps of 2500iu hcg and plenty of nolva 20mg tabs.

Awesome thread by the way:thumb:


----------



## hackskii

3 weeks due to the EQ, that has a very long ester in it.


----------



## Alex The Kid

Thanks hackskii

would 500iu eod be sufficient until all 3 amps are done? So thats 15 shots?? :confused1:


----------



## hackskii

Alex The Kid said:


> Thanks hackskii
> 
> would 500iu eod be sufficient until all 3 amps are done? So thats 15 shots?? :confused1:


30 days in total?

Problem with HCG is it shuts down the pituitary pretty hard, so you woul dneed need some time with the clomid and nolva to fire that one up.

I think if you are going to run it during PCT then you can run it like 1000iu EOD then the last shot would be 500iu 4 shots over 8 days, then continue with the SERMS.


----------



## Drozich

Excellent post Scott, it has answered so many things for me not at least the amount of acronyms there seem to be for the various substances used and the explanation of the changes in body function.

I am playing it at really but here is my 10 week course:

Week 1 - 10 250mg/wk Deca

Week 1 - 10 200mg/Week Test Cypionate

These seem to be very low dosages comparatively and I have not noticed to much atrophy even 4 weeks in but I would expect that there should be some PCT after the cycle but I am still unsure on how to calculate this based on my useage and also if HCG is needed at this level.

Any help is much appreciated mate!

Regards,

Drozich


----------



## hackskii

I would up the test some.

Run that a week longer than the deca too.

The cyp will clear before the deca.


----------



## Drozich

What do you recommend, maybe 400mg test?

What do you think for PCT at this level, should I use HCG also?

Thanks Scott


----------



## hackskii

Drozich said:


> What do you recommend, maybe 400mg test?
> 
> What do you think for PCT at this level, should I use HCG also?
> 
> Thanks Scott


How long is the cycle for?


----------



## Drozich

10 weeks mate


----------



## hackskii

500iu HCG twice a week then start PCT according to clearance time of the gear (not sure which test ester you are using).

Then clomid and nolva for PCT.

Doses would be something like 100mg for 21 days of the clomid, and 30 days @ 20mg for the nolva.

You can run the HCG right up to PCT.

A very mild AI can be ran during, and you can bump that up to 500mg every week too.

But 400mg first cycle will be ok. That was my first test cycle and I got huge gains from that, especially the shoulders exploded.


----------



## Drozich

Total newbie question but I need to know. What are the reasons for raising the Test (test cypianate) over the Deca?

I am not using any HCG at the moment (4 weeks in) will I be Ok to start it now or have you factored thaht in already with your recommendation?

Thanks for your help mate, really appreciate it!!


----------



## hackskii

Testosterone is aweome, sides are well known, shutdown is not that bad, and the sides are treatable.

Deca the sides are low, but the shutdown is bad, with that much gear your gains are not going to be all that great compaired to your shutdown.

Low gains and high recovery, that just does not add to me.

So, mg per mg if you bump the test, you will get more bang for your buck and less shutdown.

HCG should be run throughout, so should an AI, both of those will help you recover.

First cycles should be one compound.


----------



## Drozich

Thanks for that mate, my next question is what is AI (total newb to steroids).

Do you think I should end the deca and just finish my cycle on the test cyp with HCG?

With the PCT, do I run the Clomid and Nolva together or one after the other?

Cheers again scott!


----------



## hackskii

I always run nolva and clomid together.

AI = Aromatase inhibitor, that stops the conversion from testosterone to estrogen, well not stop it but inhibit it some lowering overall estrogen some, which is a good thing.

Me personally, Id drop the deca and up the test, gains will be better anyway.

Deca is a good drug but I find it works best when used longer, test rocks in the shorter cycles, shutdown isnt that bad either, certainly not at 400 to 500mg every week.

Sides will be very managable.


----------



## KRS

Hey Hacks, I'm looking to start my first cycle very soon.

It will be:

Weeks 1-12 250mg Test-E

Weeks 1-4 and 10-14 30mg Dbol ED

Weeks 5-9 200mg Andriol ED

I know the Andriol is crap but I bought it when I was being a wuss and not wanting to jab, can't waste it :whistling:

I have HCG, Nolva and Clomid, how would you recommend using these after said cycle? I'm 31.


----------



## hackskii

HCG throughout @ 500iu twice a week.

I would bang the andriol in the beginning to get blood levels up and use them at the end while the gear clears.

You can pop some of them during to bring the 250mg a week up some.

250 isnt alot, you might get better results shortening that to 10 weeks using more, for me test kind of quits working after about that time anyway.

Longer courses just seem to shut me down more and also the sides become more pronounced.

I never used to get gyno, now I get it at the end of the cycle, no doubt the body trying to stop me from doing somehting...lol

Clomid and nolva for PCT but run the HCG throughout and all the way up to PCT.


----------



## Drozich

OK mate,

I will complete my cycle of test cyp for the next 6 weeks with 500iu HCG twice a week. My test is 200mg/ml so I can take the test and the HCG together 200mg test/500iu HCG twice per week. I take it as the test is oil based and the HCG water based that they cannot be mixed?

Following completion of my cycle I will give it 2 weeks clearance and then start PCT at your recommendation.

What are the real uses of Deca mate, if it shuts you down hard and gains are small what is is really for? Will I see an increase in testicle size once off the Deca and onto the HCG as they have shrunk but not massively.

I think my case shows perfectly that anyone looking to start a course should spend a few weeks on here first getting advice and reading articles to understand more about what they are doing. One thing is for sure, my next cycle will be a good un :thumb:

Thank you so much mate, you have been a massive help :beer:



hackskii said:


> I always run nolva and clomid together.
> 
> AI = Aromatase inhibitor, that stops the conversion from testosterone to estrogen, well not stop it but inhibit it some lowering overall estrogen some, which is a good thing.
> 
> Me personally, Id drop the deca and up the test, gains will be better anyway.
> 
> Deca is a good drug but I find it works best when used longer, test rocks in the shorter cycles, shutdown isnt that bad either, certainly not at 400 to 500mg every week.
> 
> Sides will be very managable.


----------



## hackskii

Use the HCG sub-Q mate, easier to do and it wont matter.

Twice a week is good.

Most of guys use Deca because it does not aromitize, nor does it get converted to DHT so hair loss is not an issue.

But, it is quite supressive and needs to be run for a while, which is a catch 22 because it takes longer to do its magic but also once the magic is done so is the damage of the HPTA.

mg per mg test is stronger and less supressive, gains are better mg per mg too with test.

First cycle should always be a single compund so you see how you respond.

No sense in starting a cycle of test, deca, dbol, and winstrol as when the stuff hits the fan you wont be wondering what happend to what.


----------



## Drozich

hackskii said:


> Use the HCG sub-Q mate, easier to do and it wont matter.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> What is Sub-Q mate, when you say easier to do and it wont matter what do you mean?
> 
> Thanks Scott!


----------



## hackskii

Subcutaneous injections.

http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_education/pepubs/subq.pdf


----------



## Smitch

I'm just about to start a 6 week course of anavar at 50mg each day. I'm going to use Nolva for PCT but am unsure when i need to start taking it and for how long.

Some people have also advised to use Proviron during the course but i don't want to go through the hairloss that some people experience as my hair is receding slightly anyway.

This is my first course of steroids.

Could you offer me any advice???


----------



## hackskii

You probably wont need anything from that cycle.

Probably wont need PCT, but if you do just a short course of clomid will be just fine.


----------



## matteast

hackskii said:


> HCG throughout @ 500iu twice a week.
> 
> I would bang the andriol in the beginning to get blood levels up and use them at the end while the gear clears.
> 
> You can pop some of them during to bring the 250mg a week up some.
> 
> 250 isnt alot, you might get better results shortening that to 10 weeks using more, for me test kind of quits working after about that time anyway.
> 
> Longer courses just seem to shut me down more and also the sides become more pronounced.
> 
> I never used to get gyno, now I get it at the end of the cycle, no doubt the body trying to stop me from doing somehting...lol
> 
> Clomid and nolva for PCT but run the HCG throughout and all the way up to PCT.


but taking nolva 20mg for 45 days, is it toxic for liver? and if it is what can I take to help my body to clean itself?


----------



## hackskii

It wont be that bad, nolva actually improves lipid profiles and these become compromised during a cycle.


----------



## skaman007

hi hacksi,,41 yr old ,cycles just fininshed today was.

1-4 dbol

1-16 500mg test e

14-18 winny tabs....just took my last tab today ...for pct nolva ,clomid,sustaIN ALPHA. also have hcg 2x2500ius kits ,but they come with solvent water not bac water....i read that if its mixed with solvent it needs to be used all in one go ,so im going to do one 2500ius of hcg tomorrow ,followed by 1x2500ius 5 days later....when should i start the nolva and clomid.....


----------



## mrbicep

Hey Hackskii,

Is it worth trying each of your pct meds before you start a cycle incase your allergic? That way you can atleast be prepared?

just a thought.


----------



## hackskii

skaman007 said:


> hi hacksi,,41 yr old ,cycles just fininshed today was.
> 
> 1-4 dbol
> 
> 1-16 500mg test e
> 
> 14-18 winny tabs....just took my last tab today ...for pct nolva ,clomid,sustaIN ALPHA. also have hcg 2x2500ius kits ,but they come with solvent water not bac water....i read that if its mixed with solvent it needs to be used all in one go ,so im going to do one 2500ius of hcg tomorrow ,followed by 1x2500ius 5 days later....when should i start the nolva and clomid.....


I dont think yo uwill need the sustain or the alpha, just the clomid and nolva will do.

Probably best to split those doses of 2500 up but then gain that probably isnt enough anyway.

That is a pretty long cycle and us older dudes tend to take longer.

But you can try the 2500 but you have to have the clomid and nolva in there or you will no doubt suffer some gyno issues.

That probably is about half of the HCG you will need.

Might even need more than that.



mrbicep said:


> Hey Hackskii,
> 
> Is it worth trying each of your pct meds before you start a cycle incase your allergic? That way you can atleast be prepared?
> 
> just a thought.


Have not seen anyone have allergies from SERMS, but some of the sides might be mood swings though.


----------



## LionKing

Hi,

Trying to figure out how whether i need to take full on PCT.

I have taken minimal course.....only 7 jabs of 1ml Deca and 1ml QPharma Testex Prolangatum.

I have 20mg Tamoxifen tabs and HCG (Oragno Pregnyl - 3 amps of 1500 iu) for my Post Cycle recovery.

It has been two week since my last jab.

Should i start the Tamoxifen and HCG now?

What doses should i take?

How daily should i take

Thanks!


----------



## 19ryanh92

i made a massive mistake in my course, i ran test e w/ deca for 10weeks, great gains in both size and strength, but gained lots of water retention, and because i wasnt clued up enough about the PCT i ran 'superdex extreme pct' by black china labs, off www.monstersupplements.com, yes i know it was a proper f*ck up doing that but like i said i didnt know enough about pct. i finished my course on the 3rd of july, then started this crap pct on the 17th of july, for a month. the only thing ive noticed abit more normal are my balls, but im still strugglin like f*ck with my water retention and possible gyno, and im woried it might stay permenent if i cant sort it quickly, any help on this please?and ideas how much more time ive got before the estrogen becomes permement?


----------



## hackskii

Most likely it is due to your androgens are low right now and estrogen might be a bit high, if the ratio of test to estrogen is out of ballance you can get gyno.

I would think right now you can start clomid, nolva and do some HCG.

Deca is terribly supressive.


----------



## LionKing

Hi guys,

Any thoughts on what my PCT should be. Have come off Testex 2 weeks ago and starting to get spots.

Started taking Nolva 2 days ago but only 20mg. Should i increase dosage to 40mg?

Should i start HCG?....although i only had 7 jabs over 7 weeks (minimal course)


----------



## hackskii

How long were you on?

How many mg did you use?

Did you use an AI during?

How old are you?


----------



## strange_days

Awesome thread, explains so much, reps !


----------



## LionKing

Hi Hackskii,

Only had 7 jabs of 1ml Deca and 7 x 1ml QPharma Testex Prolangatum (over 7 weeks)

Did not use any AI during.

I have 20mg Nolva (Tamoxifen) tabs and HCG (Oragno Pregnyl - 3 amps of 1500 iu)

I am 30


----------



## hackskii

LionKing said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> Only had 7 jabs of 1ml Deca and 7 x 1ml QPharma Testex Prolangatum (over 7 weeks)
> 
> Did not use any AI during.
> 
> I have 20mg Nolva (Tamoxifen) tabs and HCG (Oragno Pregnyl - 3 amps of 1500 iu)
> 
> I am 30


Sorry but I dont know the mg per ml amounts, looks like you may only need clomid or nothing.


----------



## LionKing

Hi Hacksii,

Deca is 1ml 100mg and Testex is 2ml bottles 250mg.

I've strarted taking the Nolva for last 8 days (20mg each day). Appears to be working as have had no major spots.

Is it worth doing the HCG too? (Gonads still tight!)

How long should i carry on taking Nalva?

Cheers dude!


----------



## hackskii

I would add clomid for good measure.


----------



## LionKing

Thanks

Would you bother with the HCG?


----------



## hackskii

Probably not with a 7 week cycle low dose.


----------



## LionKing

Cool.

How long should i carry on the Nolva?


----------



## hackskii

Just a bit longer than the clomid.


----------



## LionKing

Done 2 weeks on Nolva. Should i do one more?

Sory for all questions dude!


----------



## hackskii

Are you going to add clomid?


----------



## ohmygoodness

Please 4give me this is sort of an between question.

40 days ago my total test was 400 then I took nebido.

Let's say that instead of taking 6ml of Nebido I was given 6ml of testosterone E. total of 600 mgs(guessing could have been anything).

Blood work showed total testosterone 224 some 41 days later. About mid way I felt great & still do. No crash noticed.

The lab wasn't @ my dr. It something else.

1. do these numbers seem right if I was given the wrong product?

Cheers


----------



## hackskii

6ml of enanthate would be 1500mg of testosterone.

I could not guess how much but it would be well over a thousand, well over a thousand as 100mg peak would be probably between 350 and 900 depending.

224 is a bit out of range but not bad enough to make you crash, when you get into under 100 or even like in the 60's you probably would crash, as that is the upper end of a woman...lol


----------



## ohmygoodness

hackskii said:


> 6ml of enanthate would be 1500mg of testosterone.
> 
> I could not guess how much but it would be well over a thousand, well over a thousand as 100mg peak would be probably between 350 and 900 depending.
> 
> 224 is a bit out of range but not bad enough to make you crash, when you get into under 100 or even like in the 60's you probably would crash, as that is the upper end of a woman...lol


i went onto the 2nd loading phase of T ud. Guess ill wait another 5 weeks or so and get lab work done n compare. If the results are the same then I don't have T ud.

Ty


----------



## G.H.O.S.T

thanks for this pct description.. i will be trying this method very soon


----------



## LionKing

Hey Hacksii...long story but cant get hold of the clomid. Only have the Nolva and HCG.

Also, anything i should take to get the gonads to grow back...sex drive isn't all there at the moment!


----------



## StartingAgain

Thanks a million for that post mate, I am new to 'enhanced building'  but defo not new to building and although I understood that PCT is necessary and had a vague idea of why, I now feel I have a real understanding,

Great Post, thanks again.

Knowledge is power!


----------



## biglad21

looking for a bit of help, im currently on cycle and have gt my clomid and nolva reaxdy for when i finish, i am just wondering when to start the pct

im currently running test e 2ml a week, but adding winstrol on week 5 to week 10, how longf after my last jab do i start the clomid n nolva??


----------



## hackskii

biglad21 said:


> looking for a bit of help, im currently on cycle and have gt my clomid and nolva reaxdy for when i finish, i am just wondering when to start the pct
> 
> im currently running test e 2ml a week, but adding winstrol on week 5 to week 10, how longf after my last jab do i start the clomid n nolva??


Two weeks from last jab you start your PCT.


----------



## smudge

hackskii last time i did a PCT i did

2 weeks

clomid 100mg

Nova 40mg

2 weeks

clomid 50mg

nova 20mg

this is my next cycle is either

and i plan to run HCG throug out, which i didnt use at all last time

1-10 Test E 500mg, Decca 400mg, Adex 0.5 E3D and HCG 300iu E3D

11-13 Winny 50mg ED

or

the same but 12 weeks test and decca, so no winny at the end

should i do the same PCT as i did last time or is there something else i could do to hold on to my gains?

Cheers


----------



## hackskii

Same PCT, but no need for more than 20mg nolva, as gear clears the body there wont be much aromitization.

I would run 100mg clomid for a month if you can handle it.

HCG might be a tad bit on the light side.


----------



## YoungGun

Scott, after been on for some time( alot of the year)

How does this look:

HCG 6 shots-If needed

2500IU EOD

Clomid- 100/100/100/100/50

Nolva- 20/20/20/20/20/20


----------



## hackskii

I get sides after about a month on clomid.

If you fail the PCT it will be down to the nuts.

If you were on a year, I would follow the doctors advice and do 2500 EOD x 8.

16 days allows you 14 days to help the pituitary come online.

That would be about right.

Hard recovery's are more than likely due to the nuts not being responsive to LH.


----------



## YoungGun

Thanks Scott. I'm not really concearned about sides. I get nearly zero sides off clomid although i have only ran this @ 100mg for 4 weeks before.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## smudge

hackskii said:


> Same PCT, but no need for more than 20mg nolva, as gear clears the body there wont be much aromitization.
> 
> I would run 100mg clomid for a month if you can handle it.
> 
> HCG might be a tad bit on the light side.


Cheers

should i run the 300iu HCG EOD then?


----------



## Peter80

Guys i really need some input because this is freeking me out. I am about to get my bloods done but need some input right now.

I came off a long cycle 10 months ago. And was on/am on my way to recovery. The last bloodtest i did 6 months ago came back in the low normal range. 11,5 Nmol for total T all other hormones were well in range. LH was low end with a 2 reading.

As of a couple of days ago i lost all my nighttime and morning wood. I have a really hard time getting it up day time and it just doesnt feel right and i lost the little drive i had. I also have an enormous feeling of anixiety in the morning specially.

The anixiety feeling i remember from stopping right after my long cycle. This went a way with a couple of weeks.

I have my wedding coming up in a months time and this is really starting to get to me. Is a sudden drop in T levels causing this? Does anybody have an idea what could be going on? All seem to go quite well a bit better day by day and now this....


----------



## hackskii

smudge said:


> Cheers
> 
> should i run the 300iu HCG EOD then?


I run 500iu twice a week, using an AI during the cycle is a good idea too.



Peter80 said:


> Guys i really need some input because this is freeking me out. I am about to get my bloods done but need some input right now.
> 
> I came off a long cycle 10 months ago. And was on/am on my way to recovery. The last bloodtest i did 6 months ago came back in the low normal range. 11,5 Nmol for total T all other hormones were well in range. LH was low end with a 2 reading.
> 
> As of a couple of days ago i lost all my nighttime and morning wood. I have a really hard time getting it up day time and it just doesnt feel right and i lost the little drive i had. I also have an enormous feeling of anixiety in the morning specially.
> 
> The anixiety feeling i remember from stopping right after my long cycle. This went a way with a couple of weeks.
> 
> I have my wedding coming up in a months time and this is really starting to get to me. Is a sudden drop in T levels causing this? Does anybody have an idea what could be going on? All seem to go quite well a bit better day by day and now this....


I just ran your conversion here: http://www.sydpath.stvincents.com.au/other/Conversions/ConversionMasterF3.htm

331.2 would be your T levels, in our reference range.

260-1000 ng/dl is considered normal.

Optimal would be around 500-1000 ng/dl

Now this would appear a bit on the low side, but taken 6 months ago, no doubt it is within normal range.

I would honestly say this can be a problem with stress, as marriage is a very heavy choice to make, one may wonder if they are making the right decisions here.

Not only that, but even the subconscious mind can play havoc here.

If there is problems with circulation then that may be all together something different.

Anti-anxiety drugs can interfere with libido and erections, blood pressure medications too can affect this, stress, sleep disorders like apnea can cause lower T levels.

Could be a number of things and not necessarily T levels.


----------



## Peter80

Thank you for the reply Hackskii, it is really appriciated.

I dont take any medications. But work many many hours also nights. Nights are always short.I have to admit the marriage is keeping my mind busy. And causing me some stress.

About circulation i am 29 and have been active al my life i dont drink and do not smoke and live a healthy life style appart from the short nights.

I am going to try to relax and hopes this helps.

Thanks again.


----------



## hackskii

Its probably stress mate.


----------



## Peter80

Probably Hacks. Sounds logical.

Cheers.


----------



## saekson

#Hackskii

Hi

Im going to start my cycle of 500mg of test enanthate e5d,

i also planned to use Arimidex throughout the cycle at about .25 or .5, well my question is should i use adex to the point of the first hcg shot,

and then continue your pct protocol as stated with the cloimd and nolva? and also do you think its necessary using hcg during the cycle if needed?

Thx

ps. posted in the other thread too, i hope you see this


----------



## hackskii

How long is your cycle?

Generally low dose HCG and an AI would be a good idea with aromitizable steroids.


----------



## saekson

hackskii said:


> How long is your cycle?
> 
> Generally low dose HCG and an AI would be a good idea with aromitizable steroids.


thx for reply hack

i was thinking of either a 10 or a 12 weeker


----------



## hackskii

Thats fine.


----------



## Ardasnails

Hey hackskii and every1 else,

Ive been doin a fair bit of research and one thing i havent found out is if say for instance you have already done a cycle and didnt do any pct, ur balls have shrunken and u have gained boobs, and havent done any pct does that mean the damage is permanent?

many thanks

Dan


----------



## hackskii

No, damage is not perminant.


----------



## Ardasnails

Cheers matey much appreciated


----------



## 065744

hi m8 amazing thread,

im looking to do my first cycle in jan, im gona do

test e 500mg pw week 1-12

d-bol 30mg ed week 1-8

for pct im looking to run nolva and clomid together, do u think hcg would be needed for me as i will be just 22 when i start my cycle?


----------



## hackskii

Low dose during certainly would not be a bad idea anyway.

Some guys crash after a cycle.

That I have seen personally and it is ugly.


----------



## 065744

what kind of dosage is low dosage through out?


----------



## hackskii

065744 said:


> what kind of dosage is low dosage through out?


Somewhere around 500iu twice a week.


----------



## crchy

alright all. thinking of doing my next cycle as;

test 400 ew 400mg

deca ew 400mg

ive read this thread now a few times to understand pct but need to learn a bit more about Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hcg). do you think ill need this in my pct. and how much clomid and nolva daily.

my wife is pregnant could i get her to pi33 into a cup and use that, lol :lol:


----------



## hackskii

How long is the cycle for?


----------



## crchy

hackskii said:


> How long is the cycle for?


gona do a 10 week cycle


----------



## hackskii

Shouldnt be too supressive but I would toss some HCG in there though.


----------



## Mickey knox

Jusat about to do a sus cycle for 10 weeks @ 250ml Mon & Thurs....Should Iuse the HCG (pregnyl) at 500iu at the same time as each shot?


----------



## Usual Suspect

Guys need some advice on how to get lean & ripped!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My mate who's done a few cycles in the past couple of years (usual stuff, deca, sus, primo, oral winny & pct with HCG) wants to do a cutting cycle. But don't wanna take anything that hurts!!!

He don't want no water retention, acne, pufffiness, sexual dysfuntion & he is well para of needles!!! & he would prefer oral than intra-muscular.

He is currently weighing in at around 13 stones, trains 3-4 times a week, cardio once a week, his diet is very clean.

Money is not an issue, but the guy wants to really get lean & ripped as possible.

Ive told him all about the usual stuff like cardio, diet, HGH, Winny, Anavar, Clen, Ephadrine, etc.

But would really appreciate any advice & tips on doses, stacks, duration, dietary info, anything that will help this dude get where he wants!!!


----------



## crchy

hackskii said:


> Shouldnt be too supressive but I would toss some HCG in there though.


ok great. is there a thread on hcg in the forum so i can understand a bit more about it. :thumbup1:


----------



## Outtapped

what an amazing post!


----------



## Chimpo

Wicked post Hacks, was just wondering if you can use novladex xt instead of novladex?? and tomoxifen instead of chlomid?


----------



## hackskii

Tamoxifen is nolvadex.

I have no idea about novladex XT, never used it.

Clomid is the SERM of choice for the pituitary.


----------



## Chimpo

Lovely cheers mate


----------



## Musashi

hackskii, thanks for the information on here and the time out you have taken to provide it.

I am 41 years old and going to start a course after last doing one around 15 years ago.

Test E for 12 weeks @ 500mg PW with an initial front load of 1000mg in the first week. With 25mg Proviron ED. (I can lose the Prov if you think thats best?)

My PCT is planned at:

2 weeks after last jab -

Nolvadex

Day 1 60mgs

Next 10 days 40mgs

Next 10 days 20mgs

I was avoiding Clomid due to 'emotional' issues.

I've never done PCT in the past, as at the time I didn't know about it other than an HCG jab at the end of a course.

After reading your post I am wondering if my proposed PCT is adequate for my course and age?

I'm also a bit concerned after reading other posts on the forum that PCT has caused more problems for some people than the actual AAS - depression etc?

Thanks for your time.


----------



## hackskii

I think that is too much nolva and nolva isnt a very good PCT drug by itself.

At the very least some HCG in there would keep the nuts alive.


----------



## Musashi

hackskii said:


> I think that is too much nolva and nolva isnt a very good PCT drug by itself.
> 
> At the very least some HCG in there would keep the nuts alive.


Could you advise me on what would be a better regime for PCT please? (I would like to avoid Clomid if possible)

Best wishes.


----------



## hackskii

Not sure which one after clomid would work next best.

There are like 4 diffrent SERMS, I have used 3 of the 4, only clomid stands alone in my book for bumping the pituitary to release LH and FSH, I think the others work but not as aggressive.

There are Nolvadex (Tamoxifen), Evista (Raloxifene) and Clomid (Clomiphene), and Toremifene citrate (Fareston).

I have not used Raloxifene, so I can not comment on that one.

I was not impressed with toremifene either.


----------



## pierrot sb

Very great post,

I will run test E next month for 8 weeks with a frontload at 1000mg the first week.

I've arimidex and nolva on hand for gyno issues, and clomid+nolva for pct (2 weeks after the last shot), what do you think about hcg for me please?

Im 22 and it will be my first AAS cycle, i've done 2 prohormones cycle before and i had a little gyno during the second one (i'm off for 5 month).

Thanks for your precious help !


----------



## hackskii

Probably wont even need it but if you do use some it will make recovery very easy.

8 week cycles are not very supressive with testosterone.


----------



## Musashi

hackskii said:


> Not sure which one after clomid would work next best.
> 
> There are like 4 diffrent SERMS, I have used 3 of the 4, only clomid stands alone in my book for bumping the pituitary to release LH and FSH, I think the others work but not as aggressive.
> 
> There are Nolvadex (Tamoxifen), Evista (Raloxifene) and Clomid (Clomiphene), and Toremifene citrate (Fareston).
> 
> I have not used Raloxifene, so I can not comment on that one.
> 
> I was not impressed with toremifene either.


Thanks mate.


----------



## pierrot sb

hackskii said:


> Probably wont even need it but if you do use some it will make recovery very easy.
> 
> 8 week cycles are not very supressive with testosterone.


Thanks a lot !


----------



## biglad21

\Just finished my cycle and waitin the 14 days to start pct i have run a 10 week cycle of test e with winstrol for the last 5

im just wondering the doses of clomid and nolva as i have forgot what i got told on here abit back....do i need to get any hcg too cheers


----------



## hackskii

20mg nolva and 50 to 100mg of clomid ED.

HCG would not be a bad idea but you may just have to see how you do without it.


----------



## biglad21

cheers mate and how long do i do that for?2 weeks?


----------



## hackskii

Depends on how long, how much, what compounds, and the level of shutdown you normally get, and possibly your age.


----------



## biglad21

its my 1st proper cycle

test e weeks 1-10 500mgs per week

winstrol 5-10 50mg ed

im 21 how do i know when the times right, nuts back to size???


----------



## hackskii

No, testicular size is no indication of recovery or testosterone production.


----------



## biglad21

cheers for alll the answers!!!can you shed any light then on when i will no when to stop pct?/

sorry for all the q's just want to do it the right way


----------



## hackskii

I can only judge by my own recovery.

But if libido is gone, no morning wood, you feel lethragic, dry skin, and have some depression, then id say you are not recovered.

All people are diffrent, when my face is greasy, I know I have recovered.

When my libido becomes nomral, I know I am recovered.

When I have night time hard ons when sleeping, I know I am recovered.

Blood test would be the only true marker here.


----------



## biglad21

cheers mate very helpful


----------



## pierrot sb

Sorry for theses 2 questions but

-for the 2 weeks between the last shot and pct is taking nolva/adex a good thing? or nothing will be better?

-am i true when i think using first nolva @60mg 1st day/40mg some days/20mg until the end of cycle if i have gyno symptoms, and if nolva does not do enough for gyno run adex?

Thanks for your precious help again !


----------



## hackskii

pierrot sb said:


> Sorry for theses 2 questions but
> 
> -for the 2 weeks between the last shot and pct is taking nolva/adex a good thing? or nothing will be better?
> 
> Are you using aromitizable steroids?
> 
> -am i true when i think using first nolva @60mg 1st day/40mg some days/20mg until the end of cycle if i have gyno symptoms, and if nolva does not do enough for gyno run adex?
> 
> Thanks for your precious help again !


I would run an AI during the cycle instead of nolva.


----------



## Miscman

Ok question to hackskii seen as you seem to be the god of knowledge about steroids, i need to just ask couple of basic questions

i was going to take an 8 or 10 week cycle of dbol not sure yet either 20mg/30mg a day

I really dont want bitch tits so would i need to take pct during the cycle also would i need to take clomid and nova and what doses thats all i can think of at the moment

Wont be starting for another couple of months because i want to be 100% certain about it before i start from stories ive heard, if its ok could you send me the reply via pm becuase i dont check this forum much

cheers Miscmaynnn


----------



## hackskii

Oh man, you will need to do some reading.

Orals are not usually taken for that long.

Estrogen management needs to be addressed.

PCT is after the cycle, not during.


----------



## Miscman

hackskii said:


> Oh man, you will need to do some reading.
> 
> Orals are not usually taken for that long.
> 
> Estrogen management needs to be addressed.
> 
> PCT is after the cycle, not during.


wow strong confusion in my mind

If you have time could you post a dbol+pct cycle you would recommend for a beginner

Also you should make a sticky on beginers and what good starting cycles would be


----------



## hackskii

That would be difficult as there are variables that play factors in recovery, like (not limited to):

Was an AI used during the dbol cycle?

Was HCG used during the cycle?

How long was the cycle?

How much dbol was used during the cycle?

Do you normally recover poorly or easy?


----------



## Miscman

hackskii said:


> That would be difficult as there are variables that play factors in recovery, like (not limited to):
> 
> Was an AI used during the dbol cycle?
> 
> Was HCG used during the cycle?
> 
> How long was the cycle?
> 
> How much dbol was used during the cycle?
> 
> Do you normally recover poorly or easy?


These are the questions im trying to ask you

how much dbol should i use and how long to use it and what pct to take

i wouldnt say i recover poorly or easily somewhere in between


----------



## hackskii

Miscman said:


> These are the questions im trying to ask you
> 
> how much dbol should i use and how long to use it and what pct to take
> 
> i wouldnt say i recover poorly or easily somewhere in between


Ah, nice questions, but your questions you can answer yourself.

The learning process begins with you.

The answers can be answered with you as well.

If you want my direction, you need to research for yourself.

Outside of what you want, you can ask......................


----------



## Miscman

hackskii said:


> Ah, nice questions, but your questions you can answer yourself.
> 
> The learning process begins with you.
> 
> The answers can be answered with you as well.
> 
> If you want my direction, you need to research for yourself.
> 
> Outside of what you want, you can ask......................


K thanks for the advice i will be havily reading up on it throughout the next week and will post the cycle i think i should run the hopefully you can give me some advice on it


----------



## Chimpo

how long after my last jab of prop would u suggest starting pct?


----------



## hackskii

3 days


----------



## Chimpo

cheers mate


----------



## pierrot sb

hackskii said:


> I would run an AI during the cycle instead of nolva.


Thanks


----------



## mrmasive

To read later


----------



## johnboy1981

Hi hacksii, it seems you are the man with the knowledge!

I'm just about to start ( in 12 hours) the following:

Test E 1-10 weeks 500mg EW

weeks 10-13 - Nothing

weeks 13 -17 - Clomid at 100mg for 2weeks, dropped to 50 for 2 weeks.

weeks 13-17 - Nolvadex at 20mg ED for 3 weeks.

As you can see mate its a pretty simple first course but one in which I think I will benefit greatly. I don't think I need anything else in there to be honest, HCG is not really an option for me as I have no where to store it. I understand about anti estrogens and have been told by a helpful guy on here that I could take 12mg ED for the duration of my cycle and pct. Do you have any input which may help me?

Thankyou and regards, John.


----------



## johnboy1981

hello again! Just realised I can get my hands on some arimidex, it looks to do the same job and Im sure i read that it was something you preferred. They come in 1mg tablets however I was wondering what a good doseage would be for that?

0.5mg Everyday over the duration of the 17 week cycle?

regards John


----------



## hackskii

Looks ok, the 12mg is aromasin?


----------



## hackskii

johnboy1981 said:


> hello again! Just realised I can get my hands on some arimidex, it looks to do the same job and Im sure i read that it was something you preferred. They come in 1mg tablets however I was wondering what a good doseage would be for that?
> 
> 0.5mg Everyday over the duration of the 17 week cycle?
> 
> regards John


Just estrogen management would be fine.

I would start out .5 EOD myself and if you get any sides bump that up.

We need estrogen, but excess is very supressive, keeping it in check during a cycle in my opinion helps for recovery and excess bloating.

We need some but just enough would be the best approach.


----------



## Cluk89

hi there, i am currently running a cycle of H-drol, my plan was to run Nolvadex only for PCT 20/20/10/10 along with some natty test boosters.

Do you think this is sufficient?

i can get clomid but i didnt think it was nessacery for this mild cycle....please help


----------



## hackskii

I would get clomid.


----------



## johnboy1981

hackskii said:


> Looks ok, the 12mg is aromasin?


Thats correct mate, sorry I didn't state that I must have forgotten!

I was reading elsewhere that adex is good at the time of use, however when you come off it at the end of your cycle/pct, it can rebound and you can have all the effects at once, it isn't as effective as aromasin. Do you have any input on that?

Thankyou for your kind replys and knowledge, I now feel a lot better about my cycle and I seem to understand it a lot more than I did before!

Regards John.


----------



## hackskii

Yes that is because aromasin kind of self tapers so no rebound issue.

The other AI's no doubt you need to taper unless you are starting nolva for PCT then no need as you are still protected.

I didnt get very good results from aromasin, but I was told to eat a fat with that and it works better.

Not sure about that as I didnt really like it due to gyno still getting by at 12.5mg ED.

Used some letro and bang on stopped.


----------



## johnboy1981

Ah right, so with adex you would have to taper the dose down from maybe 0.5mg ED to every other day then twice a week until you decide to stop.

Yeah guess everyone reacts differently, I find it very difficult to get my hands on aromasin, but easy to get adex so I find that adex may be the best way to go, run it from my first week to my last week and then let the nolva and clomid take over at pct.

I guess if I found any problems with adex I could easily get letro from some research site.


----------



## johnboy1981

during my 3 weeks off between the end of my cycle and start of pct I was thinking I could get some HCG as it is raved about on here and I really want to recover properly. I was thinking after my last shot I could take hcg 1500 iu EOD for 6 shots which would be 18 days until I start PCT of nolva and clomid. I would of course still be running arimidex up until the start of PCT too. What do you think of that?

Regards , John


----------



## hackskii

That would be fine but you may need to play around with the adex some, HCG can give one gyno in just about a day.


----------



## skellan

Great informative thread this one!!

However after reading it all I`ve now completely baffled myself!!

For a cycle of 200mg deca/ 250 sust per PW over 10 weeks, what PCT would you advise? Would you reccomend taking any of it during the cycle or is it always after then dependant on the 1/2 life as to just how long after? Also would it be a problem having the sust "lagging" the deca EG deca only for the first couple of shots then at the end the deca gets stopped first.

Cheers Dude

Skellan


----------



## hackskii

Well, a 10 week cycle of deca wont do much, you would be better off using 500 sust and call it a day.

Wait 3 weeks then start your PCT.

Using HCG throughout will make the recovery much easier.


----------



## skellan

isnt it better to stack sust with deca though (remember I`ve already started the deca)??? Or would you say that as soon as I`m ready to go onto the sust then drop the deca entirely?

Cheers

Skellan


----------



## hackskii

What I am saying is that the shorter cycles would be better using testosterone.

Not only is it mg per mg stronger, but recovery is easier.

Deca in my opinion is a good drug, but not as good as test.


----------



## Chimpo

im due to start my pct tomorrow, i done 10ml of test 350 for 4 weeks then 10ml test prop for 4 weeks, as u can see only a small course. I got 2500 iu's of hcg and tamoxifen. How many jabs of hcg and how many iu's would u recomend?


----------



## Old but not out

Personally I would get some more test prop and extend your course for another 2-3 weeks while you use 250 iu of HCG every other day to get your testes going again. I would run the HCG for 1 extra week post cycle whilst starting SERMS


----------



## Arnold Swarfega

[No message]


----------



## hackskii

[No message]


----------



## tuna_man

I think nolva for PCT is highly overrated. Clomid is the best serm with best affinity for estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus, vs nolva, which has best affinity in breast (hence gyno use)

Clomid also may have other, poorly understtod effects on the pituitary as well, priming it for GnRH from hypothalamus.

Personally id say look at the studies and case studies, clomid works. Some people get overly emotional etc, others say it aint bad at all. A necesasry evil for superior recovery


----------



## BillC

Scott, starting pct tommorrow, been 3 weeks on Saturday since last jab of sus, been running winny 50mg/ day for last 4 weeks mon-fri just to liven things up. Been on sus 500mg a week for 15 weeks - probrably slightly less as I did start to jab more frequently halfway through.

I've been using 500ui HCG / week just to stop the nuts dissapearing - not high enough in hindsight. I've got 17,000ui's hcg, Chlomid and Nolva. You warned me that 15 weeks is very suppressive, hence my avatar message. What dosages should I run to get the best recovery. You did tell me that you need 20,000 ui's to get the boys back, I'm hoping that 17000 is enough although I can get more. Was looking at doing 2000ui eod for 2 weeks, 40, 40, 20, 20 Nolva, 100, 50 50 chlomid. Is this right? Ow and should I contunue with arimidex 0.5/d whilst jabbing the hcg as I don't want no rebound/moobs.

Cheers for your help.

Bill

I'm deffo low on test now as I feel a bit emotional once the winny has worn off, getting spots like a teenager on my forehead and they friggin hurt lol and not a complete sexmad deviant anymore - booo.


----------



## hackskii

You may not need a full 20000iu of HCG due to you using 500iu a week.

Try 10,000iu during PCT, that would be like 1000 EOD.

No need to run the nolva more than 20mg ED.

100mg clomid would be cool too.

You want about 2 weeks from last jab of HCG to help prime the nuts with clomid @ 100mg ED.


----------



## BillC

Cheers matey,

So revised having reread everything, 1000iu eod for 20 days then?

Chlomid 100mg/day 5 weeks is this right, never used chlomid so not sure how it'll affect me as I'm halfway blind from too much self abuse:cool2:

nolva 20mg ed for 7weeks -2 extra from the chlomid.

I'll keep on with the adex until finished hcg as from what I can gather, Nolva weakens adex not the other way round so anything to stop the spots - feck forgot how much zits hurt, jeez.


----------



## hackskii

Well, on paper that looks good but in reality that much clomid might give you some problems.

Could run that lower dose at 50mg ED while on the HCG then bump it up to 100mg.

HCG will supress the pituitary but clomid will spark the pituitary, but not while on HCG.

The idea here is to get testicular function then restore the pituitary.

Had you ran a bit more HCG during the cycle, you could have no doubt had more testicular function.


----------



## TOBE

Hey all.. regarding adex, where would someone stop taking it before PCT?

example, my first cycle will more than likely be

1-10 test e 350mg

10-12 winstrol 50mg

12-16 nolva & clomid 40/20/20/20 & 100/50/50/25

But I wanted to run adex @ .25 eod from the start - to help against water retention/bloat and hopefully gyno as I think I'll get it personally..

Just wondering how/when i would stop running the adex though? Guessing right up to first tablet in PCT but wanted to make sure..

Cheers


----------



## hackskii

Just stop it the day you start your PCT.


----------



## skaman007

hi 41 yr old .3rd cycle...

1-10 500mg test e

1-4 40mg dbol

3-12 0.5 adex eod

no hcg thru cycle was planning 2x2500ius jabs 5 days aprt .first one on day of last test e jab pree pct .then another 2500ius 5 days later.wait 7 days

then follow up with 20mg nolva and 50mg clomid for 30days .for pct week 14-18.


----------



## Rambo55

Guys even though im failry clued up on "steroids" in general. PCT i am not 

My friend has been doing a low dose test/tren cycle hes only on week 7 and decided to stop < family issues etc>

Does he need PCT? if so what do you suggest? he did say hes nuts have NOT shrunk !

so im thinking clomid 100mg ED for 2 weeks then 50mg ED for 2 weeks with 25mg aromasin ED throughout ( 4 weeks total)


----------



## hackskii

Probably only needs the clomid.

As Lon as he has his start date correct he should be fine.


----------



## Rambo55

Thanks Scott,.

RE: start date, You mean as long as "its ONLY been 7 weeks" ?

If so I can vouch for that. LOL

SO you think Clomid and Aromasin will be enough?

Thanks again mate.


----------



## hackskii

What estered gears and how much did he use?

When was his last jab?


----------



## Rambo55

He was using Test E 400mg/week

and Tren Hex 300mg/week with aromasin throughout.

I believe hes last jab was friday. Thats when he decided to pack it all in


----------



## skaman007

skaman007 said:


> hi 41 yr old .3rd cycle...
> 
> 1-10 500mg test e
> 
> 1-4 40mg dbol
> 
> 3-12 0.5 adex eod
> 
> no hcg thru cycle was planning 2x2500ius jabs 5 days aprt .first one on day of last test e jab pree pct .then another 2500ius 5 days later.wait 7 days
> 
> then follow up with 20mg nolva and 50mg clomid for 30days .for pct week 14-18.


 does this look ok scott??


----------



## hackskii

Rambo55 said:


> He was using Test E 400mg/week
> 
> and Tren Hex 300mg/week with aromasin throughout.
> 
> I believe hes last jab was friday. Thats when he decided to pack it all in


Wait between 2 and 3 weeks then start the PCT, even starting 2 weeks after with the clomid would be ok, or 3 weeks would be fine.

I would run that at the very least 2 weeks from clearance time of the test as the hex will clear faster than the enanthate.



skaman007 said:


> does this look ok scott??


I would run the HCG something like 1000iu EOD but make sure you have that AI in there.

This can be run while the gear clears.


----------



## TOBE

hackskii said:


> Just stop it the day you start your PCT.


Thanks mate :thumbup1:


----------



## Daari

Really interesting read Hackskii. Had made me rethink the entire 'standard 21 day PCT' theory.

I intend on running another cycle (my 3rd) in a month or so. It will be 600mg deca and 150mg for 12 weeks. I'll also have a 4 week 'taper down' with test only, at 100mg as this was suggested in another thread

I plan on running [email protected] every week, as well as [email protected] E3D

I usually just use clomid for 30 days for PCT alongside an OTC cortisol antagonist (like lean xtreme).

Looking at this thread, I'm looking to add 20mg nolva to my 100mg clomid. What would you suggest with regards to HCG during PCT. Is there even a need considering I was running it throughout?

I'd be grateful for any input


----------



## hackskii

You can run it throughout, then in clearance times while you wait for the drugs to clear, then I run it the first week in PCT.

Then drop that and run the SERMS.

Not a bad idea about cortisol supression post cycle.

I run DHEA during the cycle and all through PCT for adrenal support, that seems to work well.

You may or may not need more adex, .5 every few days is quite mild but if it works then cool.


----------



## jamesc

question for the intelligent people, bought hcg 5000iu. came with powder in 1 amp 1ml liquid in other. once mixed can it be stored in syringe? will 2 2500iu shots be sufficent for 8 week test only cycle. have clomid and nolva as well for pct. will be taking in accordance with original post, which was very helpful. thanks


----------



## hackskii

8 week test cycle would be mild anyway on the HPTA, even moreso with the use of an AI.

It would be very hard to shoot low dose without mixing that with bac water.


----------



## jamesc

so reckon not to worry about it? my balls have not shrunk much at all if any. clomid and nolva be good enough? also read somewhere to hit creatine straight away to hold onto more gains any truth to this. thanks


----------



## hackskii

jamesc said:


> so reckon not to worry about it? my balls have not shrunk much at all if any. clomid and nolva be good enough? also read somewhere to hit creatine straight away to hold onto more gains any truth to this. thanks


I cant say for sure, size of the balls isnt really an indication of being recovered.

I mean it is nice they have not shrunk, that is always a good thing.


----------



## fresh prince

Been a member of this forum a few months now and gained alot more knowledge, this is my first post so would just like to say this forum is great and just after a bit of advice if my hcg dosage/usage sounds about right from what i've read.

My plan for 2010 is 10 week blast (750mg test e, 500mg deca) 10 week cruise (250mg test e) right through the whole year. Was planning to do 500iu hcg x3 a week for 2 weeks every 6 weeks throughout the year. Will I need to use nolva for these 2 weeks?

At the end of the year my pct will start 2 weeks after last jab:

1500iu x3 week for 2 weeks

100mg clomid 30 days

20 mg nolva 45 days

Any replies much appreciated.


----------



## deiwos

good info, thanks


----------



## raptorpower

Hello, Im new to this forum and pretty new to steroids.. current weight-- 158 lbs , 5'7" so im not trying to get too insanely bulky because im not that tall. I want gains but not a heavy cycle. My 1st cycle a little over a year ago, was approx. 16 weeks and practically no PCT not to mention extremely irregular timing with my shots, :cursing: because i was not educated enough. So i really want to do things right this time.

Roids include-

<<deca-300=300mg ml="">>= Nandrolone Decanoate

Also, <<test-400=400mg ml="">> Testosterone Blend====>> >>400mg/mlTest-Propionate30mg, test-isocaproate60mg, Test-phenilpropianate60mg, Test-Decaonate100mg, test-undecaonate150mg

Also have HCG, clomid-25mg, nolva

I just started my second cycle of Deca-300 and test-400 and i really need a little guidance. I'm shooting for a 10-12 (depending on results) week cycle, tomorrow i will make my first week!

1-1 week - Tuesday- 0.5cc Deca+ 0.5cc Test // Friday- 0.5cc Test

2-10 week- Tuesday- 0.75cc Deca+ 0.75cc Test // Friday- 0.75 cc Test (Second week starts this 12/15/09 on Tuesday)

when should i incorporate the HCG and AI's?? HCG or/clomid or /nolva during my cycle?? if so how soon? for how long? :confused1:

Are my dosages appropriate? I should i kick it up to Deca- 1cc a week, and test x2 1cc a week??

THank you for your time and input, its greatly appreciated!! :beer: </test-400=400mg></deca-300=300mg>


----------



## raptorpower

Hello, Im new to this forum and pretty new to steroids.. current weight-- 158 lbs , 5'7" so im not trying to get too insanely bulky because im not that tall. I want gains but not a heavy cycle. My 1st cycle a little over a year ago, was approx. 16 weeks and practically no PCT not to mention extremely irregular timing with my shots, :cursing: because i was not educated enough. So i really want to do things right this time.

Roids include-

<<deca-300=300mg ml="">>= Nandrolone Decanoate

Also, <<test-400=400mg ml="">> Testosterone Blend====>> >>400mg/mlTest-Propionate30mg, test-isocaproate60mg, Test-phenilpropianate60mg, Test-Decaonate100mg, test-undecaonate150mg

Also have HCG, clomid-25mg, nolva

I just started my second cycle of Deca-300 and test-400 and i really need a little guidance. I'm shooting for a 10-12 (depending on results) week cycle, tomorrow i will make my first week!

1-1 week - Tuesday- 0.5cc Deca+ 0.5cc Test // Friday- 0.5cc Test

2-10 week- Tuesday- 0.75cc Deca+ 0.75cc Test // Friday- 0.75 cc Test (Second week starts this 12/15/09 on Tuesday)

when should i incorporate the HCG and AI's?? HCG or/clomid or /nolva during my cycle?? if so how soon? for how long? :confused1:

Are my dosages appropriate? I should i kick it up to Deca- 1cc a week, and test x2 1cc a week??

THank you for your time and input, its greatly appreciated!! :beer: </test-400=400mg></deca-300=300mg>


----------



## mrmasive

fresh prince said:


> Been a member of this forum a few months now and gained alot more knowledge, this is my first post so would just like to say this forum is great and just after a bit of advice if my hcg dosage/usage sounds about right from what i've read.
> 
> My plan for 2010 is 10 week blast (750mg test e, 500mg deca) 10 week cruise (250mg test e) right through the whole year. Was planning to do 500iu hcg x3 a week for 2 weeks every 6 weeks throughout the year. Will I need to use nolva for these 2 weeks?
> 
> At the end of the year my pct will start 2 weeks after last jab:
> 
> 1500iu x3 week for 2 weeks
> 
> 100mg clomid 30 days
> 
> 20 mg nolva 45 days
> 
> Any replies much appreciated.


PCT for what exactly? Coming off gear for a while or completely, just a rest or are you planning to have a kid?

Are you going to get you blood work done before the cycle starts or have you already done so?


----------



## fresh prince

mrmasive said:


> PCT for what exactly? Coming off gear for a while or completely, just a rest or are you planning to have a kid?
> 
> Are you going to get you blood work done before the cycle starts or have you already done so?


Already got kids, don't want any more. Hopefully the mrs don't want anymore either!

Just thought after a year of blasting & cruising would need a rest for 6 months or so? Or would you suggest just carrying on?

As for blood work it might be an idea if I get some done. Have done several cycles over the past few years but have never had it done. How would I go about it?

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Although I dont mind helping you guys out with PCT issues, I think making your own thread so questions can be asked back and forth to the original poster would be the best option.

Id rather the questions be answered on the original article for clearity.

No one PCT would be a cookie cutter approach.

This thread by design is to teach you and help you understand PCT, not to really answer recovery protocols for multiple people.

Now I understand on the nolva issue using test and deca along with HCG a couple of weeks every 6 weeks or so, but I personally would not use nolva with deca.

I would use an AI myself, then low dose HCG to keep the balls primmed.

I would drop the deca long before the start of PCT and that would be at the end of the cruise phase using testosterone only and an AI.

Nolva does protect the nuts from the heavy aromitization of HCG, but with deca, I personally would not run that.


----------



## skellan

hi Scott,

sorry to invade but could you have a look at the last few posts here and advise.

Many thanks

Matt

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/82640-test-n-deca.html#post1363399


----------



## fresh prince

hackskii said:


> Although I dont mind helping you guys out with PCT issues, I think making your own thread so questions can be asked back and forth to the original poster would be the best option.
> 
> Id rather the questions be answered on the original article for clearity.
> 
> No one PCT would be a cookie cutter approach.
> 
> This thread by design is to teach you and help you understand PCT, not to really answer recovery protocols for multiple people.
> 
> Now I understand on the nolva issue using test and deca along with HCG a couple of weeks every 6 weeks or so, but I personally would not use nolva with deca.
> 
> I would use an AI myself, then low dose HCG to keep the balls primmed.
> 
> I would drop the deca long before the start of PCT and that would be at the end of the cruise phase using testosterone only and an AI.
> 
> Nolva does protect the nuts from the heavy aromitization of HCG, but with deca, I personally would not run that.


Sorry hackskii, new to the forum game. Will start a new thread. Thanks for your help.


----------



## mrmasive

fresh prince said:


> Already got kids, don't want any more. Hopefully the mrs don't want anymore either!
> 
> Just thought after a year of blasting & cruising would need a rest for 6 months or so? Or would you suggest just carrying on?
> 
> As for blood work it might be an idea if I get some done. Have done several cycles over the past few years but have never had it done. How would I go about it?
> 
> Thanks


If i were you i would get a blood test done ASAP. There is a couple of options, go to your doc and tell him/her what you are doing and ask them to help, they legally have to but it will go on your medical records. Not for me thank you! If you are like me and do not want that theN you can try The Doctor ltd or Bently Miller (search this forum). I can't understand why anyone that uses AAS wouldn't want to establish some sort of baseline, might be useful one day :whistling:

As for staying on doing the blast cruise thing thats up to you. You might want to use an AI to control oestrogen, don't bother with Nolv and also keep check on you BP.


----------



## BRFC1984

Hi guys!

Im new to all this but have been doing pleanty of reading on this site and i have to day the information is quality!! :thumb:

Im about to start a d-bol only cycle 30mg for 6wk in the next couple of weeks and would like some advice on PCT im planning on using Clomid and Nova but at what doses and for how long?

if this has already been anserwed than i apologise but iv already read from page 18 till 10 and my heads spinning so i thought id ask!! 

Feedback much appreciated!

J


----------



## hackskii

6 week cycles generally are not very supressive.

You could probably get away with 3 week nolva @ 20mg and 100mg clomid week 1 then 2 more weeks @ 50mg ED.


----------



## sorebuttman

hackskii do you mind having a look at this pct thread pleasew

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/88189-pct-advice.html


----------



## BRFC1984

Thanks mate, How long before i start PCT? straight after cycle or???

Thanks for the reply



hackskii said:


> 6 week cycles generally are not very supressive.
> 
> You could probably get away with 3 week nolva @ 20mg and 100mg clomid week 1 then 2 more weeks @ 50mg ED.


----------



## hackskii

With d-bol, next day would be just fine.


----------



## Noog

Hi,

I am planning on doing a 12 week course of Enthanate, having 2 weeks off then doing 4 weeks PCT.

What specific drugs, dosage etc would you recommend for me? If I'm honest I don't know anything at all on this subject..

Thank you for your time and sharing your knowledge..

Please no negative feedback


----------



## usc277

hackskii said:


> Understanding PCT
> 
> PCT, what does it mean?
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy.
> 
> What does it do?
> 
> It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
> 
> How long does it last?
> 
> Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
> 
> Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
> 
> So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
> 
> Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
> 
> The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
> 
> Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
> 
> So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
> 
> OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
> 
> This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
> 
> I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
> 
> So, what can you do?
> 
> First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
> 
> The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
> 
> The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
> 
> If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
> 
> One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
> 
> HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
> 
> Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
> 
> How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
> 
> It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
> 
> Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
> 
> Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
> 
> Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
> 
> What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
> 
> Ok, so lets put this all together.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can do this.
> 
> First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
> 
> Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
> 
> That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
> 
> So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
> 
> You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
> 
> By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
> 
> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
> 
> I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
> 
> If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
> 
> Cheers.


thank you for this valueable info, can you guide me with my cycle, you seem to know alot...

am running an 8 week cycle

week 1-8 : 500mg test/week

week 1-8: 400 mg deca/week

week 1-4: 20 mg dbol/ each day

for pct , i will start in week 10.

i will use nolva/clomid for 45/30 days and hcg.

how much hcg do i need, is it ok to use it post cycle and not during ?

if i get gyno, what shall i use (adex is too expensive here, cant afford it and cant find it on the blk market.)

thanks


----------



## hackskii

The deca wont clear in 2 weeks neither will the test.

Deca wont do alot for that short period of time.

HCG totall will be somewhere between 10,000iu and 20,000iu, doubt you will need much more than 10 thousand iu.

Just run it during.

I would get either aromasin, letro, or adex for during, run that low dose.

Nobody should get gyno from gear, that is totally preventable.


----------



## womby

weeks 1 - 4 oxymetholone (anadrol) 50 mg / ED

weeks 1 - 6 sustanon 250mg every sundays and wed.

I have novla for pct what else would u suggest for this short cycle?

And what should i use to prevent gyno .25 .5 adex?

Thanks.


----------



## lozkina

Thanks for the lesson on PCT lad it was clear and understandable Stephen


----------



## Quadfather

Excellent PCT information. Its very clear and I understand it all. I just have one question in regards to the use of Winstrol during PCT. I was advised to run winstrol for 6 weeks starting the first week after my last jab. I'm told that it works well at keeping the cortisol at bay and will minimise loss of gains as it is classed as an 'anabolic cycle' rather than going straight from the 'androgenic cycle' into PCT.

Anyone got any pointers on this? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## hackskii

It doesn't really matter, winstrol is one of the hardest on lipid profiles.

The gains you would lose you will never notice.

Running orals allowing the longer estered gears to clear is not a bad idea.

PCT would start day after last tab.


----------



## Terrawatt

SD said:


> OKay gonna try to explain the PCT protocol another way:
> 
> You have just finished your 6-12 week course of AAS, be it an oral only, or a test+oral. test+oral+anabolic.
> 
> At this point in time your nuts have gone to sleep, the artificial test in your system was detected by your brain who mistakingly thought your nuts were working too hard and shut that test factory down.
> 
> Well now you have finished adding in all that artificial testosterone and you want a break from AAS so you are going to try to restore your natural test with a PCT protocol.
> 
> YOu wait the required clearance times for the drugs you have taken, usually around two weeks, then begin.
> 
> Hacks protocol is this:
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days
> 
> The HCG will fool your nuts into thinking the brain is telling them to wake up and start producing test again, this is good but when the HCG shots stop, your brain will still not be convinced and wont take over giving the orders, so at the same time you have to convince your brain that it needs to tell your nuts to carry on the good work ok?
> 
> This is where Nolva and Clomid come in, combined, these two compounds tell the brain its ok to start ordering the nuts around and to get on with it ASAP. So for the 16 days you are taking HCG, you are also taking clomid and nolva in the hope that by the time the HCG shots run out, your brain will be suitably convinced to take over the role of telling your nuts what to do.
> 
> Thing is, your brain isn't quite ready to wing it alone at that point so you actually continue the clomid and nolva, gently withdrawing them for a total of 30 & 45 days.
> 
> By the end of the 45 days your nuts should be producing ntaural test again and your brain should be giving the orders with no chemical input from you.
> 
> hth
> 
> SD


Planning on a 12 week Sus 250 E3D & Dbol 20mg ED (4 weeks), in a few months time.

Is this still a valid pct considering the age of the post ?

This will be my 2nd cycle in 3 years. Previously, 10 weeks Omna 250 E3D. Stupidly didn't complete a proper pct, although luckily bounced back naturaly. Very slight atrophy, if at all.

No sides at all, although bp was a bit of a problem i think.

Regards


----------



## hackskii

Terrawatt said:


> Is this still a valid pct considering the age of the post ?


Do you want success?


----------



## Terrawatt

hackskii said:


> Do you want success?


By that I assume the answer is "Yes" :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

Terrawatt said:


> By that I assume the answer is "Yes" :thumb:


You have your answer.


----------



## Terrawatt

hackskii said:


> You have your answer.


Thanks mate 

Although I don't seem to be sensitive to gyno, when using Sust anyway, with the introduction of Dbol I think I'm gonna need an AI.

Can you make a recommendation at this point please ?

Many thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Terrawatt said:


> Thanks mate
> 
> Although I don't seem to be sensitive to gyno, when using Sust anyway, with the introduction of Dbol I think I'm gonna need an AI.
> 
> Can you make a recommendation at this point please ?
> 
> Many thanks.


Estrogen management is always a good idea on cycle using aromitizable steroids, if for any other reason it makes recovery easier.


----------



## stew121

excellent post,seeing as im new to this it really helps me understand the impotance of proper PCT and keeping gains, thank you Hackskii....reps dude


----------



## hackskii

Thanks bro........ Cheers


----------



## stronginthearm

"I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long."

OK that pretty much describes me right now, major depression emotional paranoid and insecure (not like me). My question is, can I start PCT even after 8 weeks since I came off? And what would be recommended? (details below)

I've been using for over a year (with very little break) and before I came off I was using;

900MG Test Undeconate EW

600MG Equipose EW

75MG Tren Ac E3D

75MG Masteron E3D

50MG Test Prop E3D

270MG Ephedrine ED

50mcg T3 ED

100MG Oxymetholone ED

Lots of Clenbuterol

And I took Proviron 25mg ED for about a week, BEFORE stopping

And during the previous year I pretty much used every single drug going and insane doses, my first 'cycle' was 1.5g of test every week for about 25 weeks with dbol, deca and winstrol thrown in.

I came off cold turkey without any PCT because the doctors said anymore steroids would probably cause serious harm, but obviously I need to chemically recover, my body's hormones must be shot (getting gyno, no balls, no sex drive, no motivation or focus, seminal fluid in urine, lower back pain the list goes on..)


----------



## fat-2-thi-2-mus

first of all....HOLY ****!

1 year of gear and you have tried all that!!...how old are you???

i would take up hakkis protocal if i were you mate...try and bring some normality back to your hormones...and get some blood work done!!

.....good diet, vitamins and minerals.... PCT! hope you get better lad


----------



## stronginthearm

fat-2-thi-2-mus said:


> first of all....HOLY ****!
> 
> 1 year of gear and you have tried all that!!...how old are you???
> 
> i would take up hakkis protocal if i were you mate...try and bring some normality back to your hormones...and get some blood work done!!
> 
> .....good diet, vitamins and minerals.... PCT! hope you get better lad


I'm 23. I should point out that list of 10 drugs, I was using those all in just one cycle. I don't know why, a peroid of mania I suppose.

Doctors actually told me to just stop using everything (I was in hospital for a while because of my abuse) and they told me everything will go back to normal on its own, but it's getting worse everyday haha.

Cheers mate, yeah I almost feel catotonic but that's what I get for being such an idiot I guess. I'll check out that protocol and try and eat right.


----------



## hackskii

stronginthearm said:


> "I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long."
> 
> OK that pretty much describes me right now, major depression emotional paranoid and insecure (not like me). My question is, can I start PCT even after 8 weeks since I came off? And what would be recommended? (details below)
> 
> I've been using for over a year (with very little break) and before I came off I was using;
> 
> 900MG Test Undeconate EW
> 
> 600MG Equipose EW
> 
> 75MG Tren Ac E3D
> 
> 75MG Masteron E3D
> 
> 50MG Test Prop E3D
> 
> 270MG Ephedrine ED
> 
> 50mcg T3 ED
> 
> 100MG Oxymetholone ED
> 
> Lots of Clenbuterol
> 
> And I took Proviron 25mg ED for about a week, BEFORE stopping
> 
> And during the previous year I pretty much used every single drug going and insane doses, my first 'cycle' was 1.5g of test every week for about 25 weeks with dbol, deca and winstrol thrown in.
> 
> I came off cold turkey without any PCT because the doctors said anymore steroids would probably cause serious harm, but obviously I need to chemically recover, my body's hormones must be shot (getting gyno, no balls, no sex drive, no motivation or focus, seminal fluid in urine, lower back pain the list goes on..)


Ouch, I dont know of anyone that would not crash off of that.

Ok, me personally I would have dropped everything and tapered down the test, even if your levels were normal right now you still would have crashed due to your androgen levels being so high for so long.

EQ would take a month to clear, the undeconate probably about 6 weeks or even more (probably more) to clear.

You crashed now because most all the gear has probably cleared your system leaving you pretty much at the T levels of a girl.

I would start the protocol today if it was me.

I would have tapered that but hell, time to get the nuts in full swing.

2500iu HCG EOD (8 shots)

100mg clomid ED (30 days)

20mg nolva ED for 45 days

Start them today, take ZMA before bed, also take some Vitamin D and E right now.

You might not recover first time but then again, young guys bounce back damn fast.


----------



## fat-2-thi-2-mus

mate listen to hakii... he is helping out a guy on another forum who abused steds for 10 years non stop... and he was in a real bad way... and hes on his way up via this protocal!! do it bud! :thumb:


----------



## mummit

Hi

I am planning on going on a 12 weeks cycle of 30 mg of Stanabol. Wil start first week with 10mg/day, then 20/day and fina,y 30/day..

I am 32 years old and been seriously working out for 2 years, 5-6 times a week. Normally in a 5 split program.

I am 90 kg, and 184cm i height..

I eat healthy, witha lot of fish, meat, vegstables, rice, potatoes and so on..

Intil now, I have been using Elite Protein whey, in addition to my healthe diet.. Furthermore I eat viamins, to give the muscles all it needs to recover.

The reason why I am planning going on the Stanabol cycle is to gain some muscle mass.. You now, not to be BIG BIG.. but just to get clearly marked muscles.. Since the gaining mass has been so low on me, I am considering this cycle.. This will also be my first cycle ever, so if any advises, please feel free to come along with them!! 

The main reason I am writing, is to sort out a proper PCT, when i am finished with the 12 weeks cycle. Since this is not the strongest cucles there is, I am wondering if should follow "Understanding PCT", or...?? And should I go directly from the cycle to PCT, or wait for 2-3-4 weeks?

I am sorry if theese questions are ansered berfore in the text...


----------



## hackskii

Personally I dont like oral cycles only and certainly not 12 week ones.


----------



## WaldoPK

Hey Hackskii

Thanks for taking the time to provide all the information in this thread. It's really helpful and much appreciated.

I just have one query before I go. I started a cycle of Week 1-12: Test E @ 500mg, Week 1-4: Dbol @ 30mg/day and Week 1-10 Deca @ 500mg.

Would it be alright to run HCG for the last four weeks of my cycle, that's week 8-12 @ 1000iu/week? Would this suffice? I will be running Clomid @ 100/100/50/50 and Nolva @ 20/20/20/20/20/20. I will run an AI during cycle also.

Thank you in advance


----------



## hackskii

5000iu total might not be enough..................Deca is supressive.


----------



## WaldoPK

hackskii said:


> 5000iu total might not be enough..................Deca is supressive.


Ok I'll try and get my hands on another 5000iu and then space it out before PCT. My PCT, does it look alright to you?

Thanks a lot man:thumb:


----------



## hackskii

Yes, fine


----------



## burns1982

Hackskii,

I am desperate for advice. I have trained on and off for 8 years trying different things along the way.

I suffer with Gyno badly (already had one op to remove tissue) after reading your thread it has become apparent this is down to bad advice. I have only ever taken Tamoxifen after a course.

I havent touched AS for 12 months but am still struggling with a minor case of Gyno, Small Testicles no sex drive and im depressed.

Is there anything I can do to get things back on track?

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

Well without blood work it is hard to say but perhaps a small PCT would be warranted.

Tamoxifen only PCT's suck..


----------



## burns1982

Thanks.

So i am to follow your intial PCT example at the start of this thread?

When you say bloods, is this something i can do myself?


----------



## hackskii

burns1982 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So i am to follow your intial PCT example at the start of this thread?
> 
> When you say bloods, is this something i can do myself?


Bloods you can pay for yourself, if that is what you mean.


----------



## usc277

I finished a test e 500 wk for 10 wks

Tren mix 300 mg/ wk. For 5 wkd

Dbol 30 mg ED for 8 weeks

I have white stuff out of nipple. What should I use.

Ps; there ain't bromo or caber in srilanka


----------



## Brian322

Sorry to bring old questions up, but as you know, its a common topic!?

Was taking Test/Deca a wile back, didn't run a PCT, and now sex drive has gone... done blood tests, they said everything was fine.... just to give it some time!...

Not a fan of waiting any longer tho..

"Question is, will HCG/Clomid HELP with my Libido/Sex drive returning faster??

(ano its a common question but its hard to get an answer without questions after questions)

Thanks guys!!


----------



## mkng

Hi Hackskii,

I'm running 300mg pw of test e (thinking about bumping that up to 500mg pw for weeks 5-8).

I only have 5000iu of hcg (10 shots). Do you think I should run it weeks 5-10 or should i run it weeks 7-12 so it will bring me right up to pct of 50mg clomid, 20 mg nolva for 30 days.

Also, 2 weeks should be good for test e to clear correct?

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

500mg of test E wont clear in two weeks, but it will be pretty much there in 3.

With that little bit of HCG I would run it in PCT, something like 1000 EOD and the clomid and nolva.


----------



## Brian322

hackskii you seem to be the god on here, any ideas? ^^


----------



## mkng

Thanks Hackskii, If I can't get more hcg, I will probably follow your advice.


----------



## Danny-K

I'm currently running a very mild 10 week cyle of

150mg/week Tren A

200mg/Test Prop

50mg/var and t3

Adex is 1mg EOD.. ( I'm very gyno prone and seem very sensitive to bloat regardless of diet from my past cycle which have also been much bigger in dose)

Also i'm using BD.eu Adex so they might be slightly underdose and I can't risk taking to little.

Would a simple clomid and nolvadex four week PCT be enough? If so how long after my last jab should I start.?

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

It may, or it may not be enough, I would run HCG in there low dose anyway.


----------



## Danny-K

hackskii said:


> It may, or it may not be enough, I would run HCG in there low dose anyway.


Hackskii,

Thanks for your input! What "dose" and "duration" would your recommend for HCG for such cycle?


----------



## hackskii

500iu twice a week the whole cycle and even during clearance time for PCT.


----------



## samsam

hi new to this site and finding it very helpful so far. question is starting a new cycle of

1-12 750mg test e

1-4 30 mg dbol

pct ive got clomid and nolvadex. wasn't planning on taking any ai or proviron during cycle but have got some extra nolvadex in case of any sides. how does this sound?

have got told buy a friend i wont need hcg for this cycle.

whats your opinions?

thanks in advance


----------



## hackskii

I dont see any reason not to use HCG during your cycle.


----------



## samsam

Was gonna try and go without hcg this time as I've already got all my gear. My source also doesn't have hcg so I would have to get it from a different source of the net and it seems very pricey.

I could get my hands on some proviron. Would be this alrite during cycle and what dosage?

Thanks for the help!


----------



## hackskii

Wont help, a mild AI would be a better option.


----------



## levilee

Hi guys, great site and my brain is going to explode with all this info im reading lol.

My cycle I am on at the moment is,

week 1-6 is 3 shots of sust, and 2 shots of deca per week

week 6-9 is winstrol shot eod

Also on hgh 4iu every morning.

For pct I have on hand nova/clomid/hcg but only one box 2500ui

I just wanted some advice of when to start the nova/clomid and hcg??

Thanks for taking the time to help.


----------



## hackskii

Next day after last jab or two days, your choice, then start PCT.

Probably could get away with 500iu once a week from the get go of HCG just to keep the nuts alive.


----------



## levilee

Nice one thanks hackskii for your advice. One last question, the hcg 2500ui comes in a box with 4 shots to mix, so would one shot be 500iu???

Thanks again for taking the time to help.

Lee


----------



## hackskii

Not sure, 4 shots of 500iu is 2000


----------



## Paulo Souza

Hack,

The most updated Scally protocol i believe is the following:

Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG every other day.

Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)

Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

But if you take 750iu Q3D of HCG during the cycle, do you think that we still need 20.000 HCG of his protocol?


----------



## hackskii

Paulo Souza said:


> Hack,
> 
> The most updated Scally protocol i believe is the following:
> 
> Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG every other day.
> 
> Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
> 
> Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day
> 
> But if you take 750iu Q3D of HCG during the cycle, do you think that we still need 20.000 HCG of his protocol?


No, you wont need that much HCG during PCT, if at all.

But, I dont like the new protocol as there is not enough time from clearance time of the HCG and the clomid to do its work.

Just my opinion here. That leaves little time once the HCG has cleared for clomid to fire the pituitary.


----------



## hackskii

No need for an AI, that designer drug does not convert to estrogen.

Clomid hands down over nolva anyday.

Just clomid would be fine mate.

Some suggest estrogen rebounding with epistane, so a SERM would be a good idea there anyway for recovery and in case of estrogen rebounding.


----------



## hackskii

Clomid is better because it works:lol:

100mg of clomid ED can double LH output and increase FSH by 20 to 50% in just 5 to 7 days.

Want success?

Use clomid.

You can use 100mg for the first week or two, then drop it down to 50.

Not everyone gets sides, I do but just vision ones and that is after 3 weeks of 100mg ED then I get the sides.

It really takes about a month of 100mg ED for me to have any issues with clomid, but all things return back to normal after.


----------



## hackskii

You probably wont even need 4 weeks, probably 14 to 21 days would be fine.

Clomid would work for estrogen rebounding for two reasons.

First it would bring back natty production so as not to have a skewed testosterone to estrogen ratio.

Second, once on clomid the sides of estrogen wont be an issue due to clomids anti-estrogen properties (gyno).

I have read some guys have some estrogen rebounding with this designer drug, so a SERM would be the best bet here anyway.


----------



## blueberries

Hi there hackskii ,

I will be doing a 4 week cycle of Androlic Manufacturer by Thailand, British Dispensary as its oxymetholone

if you could tell me how much clomid I should buy and how much i should take , i cant find nolva nowhere

also i will be using milk thistle 100mg each tab can you tell me how much i should use each day

Thanks

ribena


----------



## hackskii

My first question would be why Oxymetholone?

You can use 3 weeks of clomid, depending on your tollerance up to 100mg ED should do it.


----------



## blueberries

The only thing the source has which is oral is Oxymetholone


----------



## hackskii

blueberries said:


> The only thing the source has which is oral is Oxymetholone


And the only steroid associated with liver cancer.

There are far better steroids than anadrol, with better gains and fewer sides.


----------



## blueberries

hackskii what would you suggest me as in an oral so i can get looking


----------



## hackskii

dbol is a great oral, just have an AI on hand for estrogen sides.


----------



## hackskii

21 days of clomid should be just fine, perhaps even 2 weeks @ 100mg ED.

Be on the lookout for stiff joints, I also got mild anxiety issues with winstrol, probably from DHT being a CNS stimulant.


----------



## flynny

as im beginner been thinkin and researching a stright dianabol oral cycle for 6 8 weeks what sort if any pct would ibe needed in your opion, are there many no sides ie hairloss bitch tits , thanks for your time


----------



## hackskii

flynny said:


> as im beginner been thinkin and researching a stright dianabol oral cycle for 6 8 weeks what sort if any pct would ibe needed in your opion, are there many no sides ie hairloss bitch tits , thanks for your time


I have seen more gyno from dbol than any other steroid.............


----------



## flynny

hackskii thanks 4 getting back but could u explain more, what is gyno, may sound like silly question, so what u reckon thanks mate


----------



## hackskii

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia


----------



## flynny

hackskii thanks for that mate just read it and that is one side i never want mate, the main sids, i no this may sound silly, that i wnna try avoid are bitch tits as u know and hair loss, so what sort of roid is best for begineer to avoid this as dianobol seems a no no


----------



## hackskii

Any non aromitizable steroid then.


----------



## flynny

how do u mean. what would these be, sorry with the questions just this is 1st cycle and trying to get as much knowlege as poss thanks again


----------



## hackskii

I think you should do some reading, this is a PCT sticky.


----------



## Danny-K

How soon after STOPING Tren acetate can I start a PCT of Clomid & Nolva?

As I don't want any issues with the Trenbolone and Nolva?


----------



## hackskii

2 days is fine.


----------



## Danny-K

hackskii said:


> 2 days is fine.


Much appriciated Hacks....


----------



## S.hen

I do understand pct but it varies on how much you need for the cycle on hand.

I'm gonna run 4 weeks of test prop and tren 75mg of each EOD. I can only get hold of clomid and tamoxifen

Gonna try and get dome hcg online.

What do people advise


----------



## hackskii

4 weeks wont be very supressive mate.


----------



## S.hen

So would you run any pct at all?


----------



## Sk1nny

From what I have read, always run pct


----------



## Suitelf11

How will drinking influence your gains/body during PCT? My mate is planning a cycle and new year is during his PCT and he wants to drink (a lot), drinking once a lot during PCT is acceptable? Else he has to wait till 2011.


----------



## Danny-K

I've been doing a very mild cycle of Anavar 50mg/day.... Test prop 100mg E3D...T3 50mg/day.. with some clen and ECA cycled. I've used Arimidex throughout.

Would a PCT of Nolva 20mg/day and Clomid 50mg/day for 4 weeks be ok?

Thanks..

PS: Do i need to taper of the Arimidex to stop estrogen rebound? Or can I take my last Adex what for clearance time ( planned to leave it 4 days as i'm going away) then start Nolva & Clomid?


----------



## hackskii

How long have you been on?

You wont need the adex when on the SERMS


----------



## Danny-K

Doing a 12 week cycle Hacks, ...waiting 4 days ( due to im out the country ) then my first day home i'm starting the PCT.

Will the nolva/clomid prevent any estrogen rebound? I don't want to blow up with water post cycle after coming off arimidex ( been told it can happen??????????? )

Thanks


----------



## Muncle

Hi, first of all great read the info is fab, learnt loads.

Im doing a 12 weeker

week 1- 4 40mg dbol

week 1- 12 500 test e

week 1- 12 450 deca

i have clomid/ nolva and 20000 hcg on order to land before end of course

for my pct.

When would you start pct after the last inj of deca?

also i have read that deca is suppressive is it worth using on a 12 weeker?

My last course was 8 yrs ago the same infact but i was young and only

did 5000 2 inj of hcg as pct ( and crashed) got to normall levels just,

diet good cardio good attitude now correct,

any advice so i dont crash would be much appreciated

Munc


----------



## hackskii

Deca for sure is the longest ester there, @ 450, it could take 3 to 4 weeks to clear.

If you do the PCT the way the article suggests then add 15 days to the 3 to 4 weeks and the metabolites may or may not be clear.

I hate deca personally, it is supressive even months after last jab, it is super hard to determine recovery with this one.

Might want to consider a faster ester like NPP instead of deca.

Or, you can run deca, then a cruise, then a test cycle then PCT.

I like deca for its low sides, but it makes me kind of short tempered, and recovery is hell.

Most cycles I would suggest HCG throughout, even into PCT.


----------



## Danny-K

No anwser for me Hacks..lol


----------



## hackskii

Danny-K said:


> Doing a 12 week cycle Hacks, ...waiting 4 days ( due to im out the country ) then my first day home i'm starting the PCT.
> 
> Will the nolva/clomid prevent any estrogen rebound? I don't want to blow up with water post cycle after coming off arimidex ( been told it can happen??????????? )
> 
> Thanks


Estrogen rebounding happens when one takes an AI (exept aromasin), where one is on an AI and the estrogen receptors become sensitive due to no estrogen.

When one comes off the AI, those sensitive estrogen receptors get flooded by estrogen and gyno can happen.

Making matters worse is low androgen levels, so the ratio is skewed as well.

Nolva on the other hand will just block the receptor sites so when the AI is gone you still are protected against gyno.



Danny-K said:


> No anwser for me Hacks..lol


Above. :lol:

I didnt see it for some reason.


----------



## Muncle

Cheers for the reply hacks,

How much per week hcg would u suggest during the cycle?

I havent got it yet could I introduce hcg mid cycle?

Munc


----------



## hackskii

Better to start early and avoid testicular atrophy, but if you can get it now, use it @ 500iu twice a week.

Id still run a mild AI right now.


----------



## Muncle

Cheers for the advice

Its much appreciated


----------



## Danny-K

Sorry if it's already been posted but what's a good amount of Vit E to use whilst doing a PCT?


----------



## hackskii

1000iu


----------



## Danny-K

Excellent,

I bought some today.

Also what would be the main concren/drawback to starting PCT late?

say if you've been on test prop and you would normally wait 3 days before starting Clomid and Nolva would what be so wrong in starting a week after ( this would be due to not being in the country and not wanting to take SERMS on the plane)

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

No conciquences really, just low androgen levels if you start late, that might not make you feel the best.


----------



## Danny-K

Again... Thanks 

I'm considering start the PCT early now and just taking 4 of each SERM on the plane?

Do people on Clomid report things such as water "retention"? As i don't want that pre holiday?

Or can it in fact help?


----------



## 1927

Hey guys, so much information on here it blows my mind, need some help ....

Ive done 10 week course, right throughout iv taken testolic (test Prop) 2 jabs every week, 100mg each

for first 5 weeks i ran 10 mil vial of decca (2 mil a week , cant remeber the strength think it was 150mg) for the last 5 weeks have taken Tri Tren 150 (10 mil vial so also 2 mil a week) ..... also right through out course i have been taking 50 mg of proviron every day ...

heres my problem, i have 30 x 20 mg tablets of tamoxifen and 40 x 50 mg tablets of clomid ....... cant get my hands on HCG for love nor money ...

am i in trouble of my balls shutting down, trying to do it properly but still dont fully understand it all ??? do i need more tamoxifen/clomid??? when should i start the PCT?

iv also still got a strip of proviron left .. should i just keep on taking them??

i had last jab on sunday and have no intention of taking any more gear for quite a while ..... am still trying to get HCG but not looking good for few weeks

any help much appriciated lads


----------



## Suitelf11

> *The administration of tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). However, whereas Clomid produced a decrease in the LH response to LH-releasing hormone (LHRH), no such effect was seen after the administration of tamoxifen. In fact, prolonged treatment (6 weeks) with tamoxifen significantly increased the LH response to LHRL.* Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels. A significant increase in sperm density was observed only in subjects with oligospermia below 20 X 10(6)/ml and normal basal FSH levels. When basal FSH levels were increased or oligospermia was moderate (greater than 20 X 10(6)/ml); no effect on sperm density was seen. As sperm density increased, FSH levels decreased, suggesting an inhibin effect. Sperm motility was not improved by tamoxifen treatment. In five boys with delayed puberty, tamoxifen treatment appeared to activate the pituitary-gonadal axis and pubertal development.


????


----------



## hackskii

I believe BigCat wrote that some time ago.

What he is saying is that although clomid tends to bump LH due to LHRH stimulation to the pituitary, over time it makes the LHRH receptors less sensitive to LHRH and thus ends up after 6 weeks or so not being as effective.

Whereas nolva does the opposite.

good indication of running both.


----------



## Suitelf11

Thanks for the explanation


----------



## Dazzaemm2k7

"I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days)"

i have no idea what that whole sentance means :S

how do you take HCG ? lets say your dose is 1000iu , what does EOD mean and how is 8 shots 16days worth etc ? i'm totally confused by this :S

does that mean 1000iu shot in the morning then another one at night then - a day off - then the next day again 1000iu shot in the morning then another 1000iu shot at night and repeat do this for 16days ?

sorry totally confused as to how to actually take HCG :S

thanks for any responses


----------



## Dazzaemm2k7

anyone ?


----------



## Suitelf11

EOD means, every other day.

So:



> "I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days)"


means;

I take anywhere from 1000iu every other day to 2500iu every other day, for 8 shots (considering it's every other day, 8 shots = 16 days in total). Hope you understand it now. 

It's better to take hCG during cycle tho, starting at week 3. 500-1000iu EW. Hackski's advice is purely for PCT, so if you have already done your cycle


----------



## Dazzaemm2k7

i thought the purpose of hcg was to bring ur testes back online , what r the reasons for takin the hcg during ur cycle and why is it best to take the hcg DURING ur cycle as apose to with your PCT , also if you took the hcg during ur cycle then would you stop the hcg with ur cycle at the 12 week mark or would you continue to take the hcg with ur pct , so basically would you run the hcg from week 3 of ur cycle right through to the end of ur pct ? or just run it from week 3 of ur cycle until the end of ur cycle, come off it then wait 2 weeks and start ur pct ?

cheers for the reply


----------



## Mars

Dazzaemm2k7 said:


> *i thought the purpose of hcg was to bring ur testes back online* , what r the reasons for takin the hcg during ur cycle and why is it best to take the hcg DURING ur cycle as apose to with your PCT , also if you took the hcg during ur cycle then would you stop the hcg with ur cycle at the 12 week mark or would you continue to take the hcg with ur pct , so basically would you run the hcg from week 3 of ur cycle right through to the end of ur pct ? or just run it from week 3 of ur cycle until the end of ur cycle, come off it then wait 2 weeks and start ur pct ?
> 
> cheers for the reply


It will do that if you have been fool enough to let them shutdown before doing something about it. (horse, stable door, bolted, after  ).


----------



## jonniequest

Thanks for the info mate im a noob , and this is a help for the testes its something i never new , they usually just come online themselves but if i can speed it up thats great


----------



## bigbrad

hi guys hope you can help me with this.

I done a test-e and primobolan cycle for 10 weeks @ 500mg/400mg

I took nolva at pct for 3 weeks @ 60/40/40 and everything was going great until now!

It has been about 3 weeks after pct has finnished and balls have shrunk and unable to get erection etc.

What do you guys suggest ?

I started taking clomid now at 200mg first day 100 next 10 days then 50mg next ten ,im on third day now,am i doing the right thing or should i invest in hcg ? great post btw

thanks in advance


----------



## Suitelf11

Ok, so obviously your PCT wasn't good enough and you need those balls online.

Try hCG 2500IU EOD and do this:

Clomid 100/100/50/50

Nolva 20/20/20/20


----------



## hackskii

If you stimulate the nuts, recovery will be far easier.


----------



## bigbrad

Thanks for input guys, great info.


----------



## BaaS

Thank you so much for all the ef




fort Scott.

I'm planning on starting a test prop and winny cycle and running it for 8 weeks, with the winny for the last 4 weeks.

Thanks to you I think I've got my pct sorted.

I'm still a virgin so I wanted to get this first co**** spot on, as I've been researching for the last year

Thanks again

BaaS


----------



## Shaunus1988

I've never used HCG or Clomid, I've used a Nolvadex only PCT but i never do a course for more than 10 weeks but everything seems to work fine for me, I know everyones different and bodies react in different ways but they can't be that different.

Reckon i should use HCG aswell in the future? Pct has always been a bit of a grey area for me, this thread explains a hell of a lot but still, like I said, I've been fine using just Nolvadex... This confuses me haha


----------



## mctoosh

Please help !!

Have a cycle of dbol and the only thing putting me off is where to get my hands on good pct, as in what website can I trust.... :-(

Any help appreciated !!!


----------



## Suitelf11

Same source as where you got your dbol from.


----------



## mctoosh

No, have tried but not happening :-( thinking it's got 2 b an online job ..


----------



## gaz23

can you jab hcg in the usual places (quads, shoulder, ass) ? :confused1:


----------



## hackskii

gaz23 said:


> can you jab hcg in the usual places (quads, shoulder, ass) ? :confused1:


Sub-Q mate, make it easy on yourself.


----------



## oneill23

hackskii said:


> Understanding PCT
> 
> PCT, what does it mean?
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy.
> 
> What does it do?
> 
> It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
> 
> How long does it last?
> 
> Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
> 
> Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
> 
> So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
> 
> Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
> 
> The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
> 
> Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
> 
> So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
> 
> OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
> 
> This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
> 
> I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
> 
> So, what can you do?
> 
> First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
> 
> The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
> 
> The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
> 
> If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
> 
> One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
> 
> HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
> 
> Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
> 
> How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
> 
> It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
> 
> Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
> 
> Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
> 
> Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
> 
> What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
> 
> Ok, so lets put this all together.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can do this.
> 
> First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
> 
> Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
> 
> That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
> 
> So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
> 
> You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
> 
> By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
> 
> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
> 
> I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
> 
> If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
> 
> Cheers.


hi there i am new to this forum,was hoping you could give me some good advice on the pct,i will be taking super test 350 2mil a week,and boldebolin 1mil a week for a ten week cycle,could you please advise me on what to take alongside this to help keep levels right. thanks shaun


----------



## hackskii

Run HCG with your cycle @ 500iu twice a week.

Run an AI during your cycle throughout.


----------



## Boris

Fantastic thread! Learnt so much reading this. Props to you Hackskii


----------



## fboy123

I've been on TESTOVIS PROP for 12 weeks and also 50 days of dbol pills (50mg a day), now that im coming up to the end of my cycle i cant get hold of any HCG... so shall i still take NOLVA AND CLOMID, will i be ok? Its my first ever cycle btw and to be honest my balls havent even shrunk that much.


----------



## hackskii

Sure, if that is all you have then use that.


----------



## skaman007

bigbrad said:


> Thanks for input guys, great info.


nolva makes me lose erections also,lowers libido///i run prov 25mgs thru pct to combat this.


----------



## Graham-jack

I'm running 400 mg of Deca for 12 weeks + 50mg Proviron.

So will the Proviron help with my testicles as well as sex drive or will I still need to run a PCT...I have already purchased some Nolva and Clomind....will I still need the HCG??


----------



## hackskii

Graham-jack said:


> I'm running 400 mg of Deca for 12 weeks + 50mg Proviron.
> 
> So will the Proviron help with my testicles as well as sex drive or will I still need to run a PCT...I have already purchased some Nolva and Clomind....will I still need the HCG??


Proviron wont do anything for recovery, just libido.

HCG is a good idea.

I personally would run some test in there myself.


----------



## Bad Alan

Hacksii,

If i use 1000iu wk of HCG on cycle when do I stop the HCG, with the last test jab? Then start PCT or should I continue jabbing HCG when I am in my PCT.

Thanks


----------



## Graham-jack

hackskii said:


> Proviron wont do anything for recovery, just libido.
> 
> HCG is a good idea.
> 
> I personally would run some test in there myself.


Nice one mate...will do

Reps


----------



## hackskii

Bad Alan said:


> Hacksii,
> 
> If i use 1000iu wk of HCG on cycle when do I stop the HCG, with the last test jab? Then start PCT or should I continue jabbing HCG when I am in my PCT.
> 
> Thanks


Me personally, I would keep jabbing the HCG while the gear clears, sometimes I run the HCG in the first week of PCT.


----------



## Bad Alan

It is with a short ester cycle so will be cleared fairly quick, I may consider running it into the first week of PCT, do you think this is beneficial?

BA


----------



## hackskii

I tall depends on if you used HCG during the cycle with enough to keep and maintain testicular function, if not then yes, if so then no.


----------



## Bad Alan

Cheers !


----------



## mikey01

hi need advice have read about hcg and pct but what would you recommend after taking super test 350 1ml twice a week mixed with deca 200 1ml also twice a week and also where do i buy hcg as can not find it or not sure what im looking for thanks


----------



## hackskii

mikey01 said:


> hi need advice have read about hcg and pct but what would you recommend after taking super test 350 1ml twice a week mixed with deca 200 1ml also twice a week and also where do i buy hcg as can not find it or not sure what im looking for thanks


Cant help you on where to buy and you cant really ask that question as sourcing is against board rules.

How long was your cycle?


----------



## mikey01

im on week 9 of a 12 wek cycle thanks


----------



## hackskii

Some HCG during your cycle will aid in recovery post cycle.


----------



## andyg1436114686

Starting 3rd cycle of 300mg test e/200mg deca. I know the dose is low but it gives me great results.

On previous cycles i've started clomid/nolva 3 weeks after last injection, and this worked for me each time. Took 4-6 weeks to get nearly back to normal.

My source for this latest cycle reckons I should be starting pct 3 weeks before end of cycle.

Is this bad advice?????

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Thats fine.


----------



## maverick1888

On T400 now 1ml twice a week but feel down and tired all the time. still horny but not like b4 on testoviron,

i feel pressure and annoyed could this b a side could i take clomid on cycle or is it counter active


----------



## maverick1888

Great thread hackskii or is it Dr hackskii lol clears up lots of issues


----------



## hackskii

maverick1888 said:


> On T400 now 1ml twice a week but feel down and tired all the time. still horny but not like b4 on testoviron,
> 
> i feel pressure and annoyed could this b a side could i take clomid on cycle or is it counter active


No, clomid wont do much of anything on cycle.

It could just be the gear.


----------



## APG

great article hackskii, i understand the basic principles of what your saying but am a little confused as to whether i should A) start taking 1000iu hcg EW from the 3rd week of my cycle and continuing it up until i start my nolva & aromasin pct. or B) not take any during cycle and then take greater doses of the hcg whilst on PCT, im goin top run 10 weeks test cyp btw. im thinking it would be best for me to shoot 1000iu EW whilst on cycle and then start my pct?????

cheers APG


----------



## hackskii

Start now, this will help to keep the nuts alive instead of bringing them back to life.


----------



## Keezobol

Great thread Hackskii,

i have read so much over this i have confused myself a bit lol

Just looking for a bit of general advice and a bit on pct products if ok ? - i am fairly new to all this so appologise for asking questions youve prob answered 100 times lol.

first off, are these pct products legal in the UK and available to buy online or in a store ?? - i am assuming there not.

( e.g nolvadex, hgc, clomid etc are a couple i have seen mentioned on numerous occasions )

2 - which products are would you guys advise after a 10 week Deca cycle ? ( first cycle )

3 - After a 10 week deca cycle ( 2cc p/w), how long should i go on these pct products and roughly how much should i be taking ??

4 - When do you actually take the deca, eg an hour before the first workout of the week (say a monday) then on a weekly basis ?

Any advice would be much appreciated !


----------



## hackskii

Best advice you will ever get is dont do deca your fist cycle.

Pick testosterone, it is the daddy of the hormones and is what you manufacture.

I would suggest something like 500mg a week with a mild AI during the cycle along with some low dose HCG.

Then a small wait (clearance) time (depending on the ester used), then nolva and clomid for PCT.

I dont know about the UK, but they are not legal in the states but you can get around that.



Keezobol said:


> Great thread Hackskii,
> 
> i have read so much over this i have confused myself a bit lol
> 
> Just looking for a bit of general advice and a bit on pct products if ok ? - i am fairly new to all this so appologise for asking questions youve prob answered 100 times lol.
> 
> first off, are these pct products legal in the UK and available to buy online or in a store ?? - i am assuming there not.
> 
> ( e.g nolvadex, hgc, clomid etc are a couple i have seen mentioned on numerous occasions )
> 
> 2 - which products are would you guys advise after a 10 week Deca cycle ? ( first cycle )
> 
> 3 - After a 10 week deca cycle ( 2cc p/w), how long should i go on these pct products and roughly how much should i be taking ??
> 
> 4 - When do you actually take the deca, eg an hour before the first workout of the week (say a monday) then on a weekly basis ?
> 
> Any advice would be much appreciated !


----------



## doogie1981

hi best read so far a site that helps im running my cycle one oxymethalone daily 250sus and 250 test e weekly im wanting to run this for 4month the oxys another week that would be 6 weeks in total so far i have test 400 would this be wise to add and could you please help with your view of a pct please thanks


----------



## hackskii

Testosterone is testosterone, only diffrence is the ester attached that changes the delivery time and clearance time.

Run HCG throughout the cycle, then once the gear is about base values run the SERMS.


----------



## Keezobol

Thanks for the advice mate,

i was actually recomended to start on test first but unfortunatly because of where i am its very, very difficult to get hold of !

A lot of guys in my gym and who i know well run 10 week deca only cyles due to getting no test, dont get me wrong there huge guys but i just aint so sure its such a great idea - especially after what you have said ! also with all the threads clearly advising against this and all the side effects (deca dick etc !).

thanks again mate


----------



## doogie1981

hackskii said:


> Testosterone is testosterone, only diffrence is the ester attached that changes the delivery time and clearance time.
> 
> Run HCG throughout the cycle, then once the gear is about base values run the SERMS.


thanks alot your knowledge is first class


----------



## Thestrict

Wow, seriously useful article!

Just a quick question regarding a planned course, want to make sure I have all the meds ready.

Planning on doing an 8am course with a blend of

100mg/ml test prop

100mg/ml tren acc

100mg/ml mast prop

Thinking 1ml mon/wed/fri

Was planning on running 25mg proviron ed preventative, as the mast is an anti oestrogen, is it worth running them together or would it be a waste?

Also PCT, start 3 days after last shot, Would you reccommend hcg or would clomid/nova be sufficient at

Clomid 100mg ed 1st week, 50mg ed 2nd&3rd weeks

Nolva 40mg ed 1st week, 20mg ed 2nd, 3rd&4th week.

I have looked, but what is the benefit of running clomid and nolva?

Cheers for any advice


----------



## hackskii

That would be fine, I would run a tad bit more test.

Proviron you might just save for later or you could run it, wont make alot of diffrence.

HCG while on is a good idea, low dose 500iu twice a week would be ok.

Nolva @ 20mg ED is enough during PCT.

That should not be that supressive though.


----------



## Thestrict

Yeah everyone has said about up-ing the test, it's a ready mixed blend so will have to get some additional test prop and add that in.

Cheers for the advice, very grateful.

Will be taking progress pics so will be posting up after course.


----------



## Jay Walker

I am one week into this PCT and I feel great. I dont feel like I've crashed at all, I hope this continues.

Thanks Hackskii for posting this thread, which has had me glued to the screen.

I appreciate this has been covered before, but what are peoples thoughts on the toxicity of Tamoxifen, and more specifically the carcinogenic nature of it?

I read this article, and it has me slightly worried.

http://www.basskilleronline.com/postcycletherapy.shtml


----------



## Mars

Jay Walker said:


> I am one week into this PCT and I feel great. I dont feel like I've crashed at all, I hope this continues.
> 
> Thanks Hackskii for posting this thread, which has had me glued to the screen.
> 
> I appreciate this has been covered before, but what are peoples thoughts on the toxicity of Tamoxifen, and more specifically the carcinogenic nature of it?
> 
> I read this article, and it has me slightly worried.
> 
> http://www.basskilleronline.com/postcycletherapy.shtml


That link is a classic example of only posting the parts that you want ppl to see, there is so much of what he says in that link that is without relevant explanation i wouldn't know where to start.

Remember, you will be taking a low dose of tamoxifen for a few short weeks, this is extremely unlikely to cause you any health issues whatsoever.


----------



## culldog

Yo Hacks! Can you briefly explain why I would need to run a AI through out my cycle. Im blast and cruising now through out summer, so plan on taking some HCG to keep the balls nice and healthy. I get why I need to take Nolva and clomid after my lenghty course, but not to sure on why I would need to run adex or aromaism etc through out the cycle. I have read your posts, but can't get my head around the AI whilst on cycle. Cheers mate.


----------



## DJay

hackskii was wondering if you could help answer a question about my specific cycle.

im taking 500mg test-e for 10 weeks (not started yet)

50mg adex e3d

Clomid: 50/25/25/25

Nova: 20/20/20/20

do you think i should be taking HCG aswell? its my first cycle if that makes any difference.


----------



## Jay Walker

mars1960 said:


> That link is a classic example of only posting the parts that you want ppl to see, there is so much of what he says in that link that is without relevant explanation i wouldn't know where to start.
> 
> Remember, you will be taking a low dose of tamoxifen for a few short weeks, this is extremely unlikely to cause you any health issues whatsoever.


Thats what I have come to the conclusion of after reading it a few times.

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

culldog said:


> Yo Hacks! Can you briefly explain why I would need to run a AI through out my cycle. Im blast and cruising now through out summer, so plan on taking some HCG to keep the balls nice and healthy. I get why I need to take Nolva and clomid after my lenghty course, but not to sure on why I would need to run adex or aromaism etc through out the cycle. I have read your posts, but can't get my head around the AI whilst on cycle. Cheers mate.


If one is taking an aromitizable steroid like testosterone lets say, using an AI during the cycle helps to avoid estrogenic sides, not only that but estrogen is approx 200 times more supressive than testosterone. So estrogen maintenance is important.



mars1960 said:


> That link is a classic example of only posting the parts that you want ppl to see, there is so much of what he says in that link that is without relevant explanation i wouldn't know where to start.
> 
> Remember, you will be taking a low dose of tamoxifen for a few short weeks, this is extremely unlikely to cause you any health issues whatsoever.


I have seen others tout the dangers of nolva only to suggest some over the counter product.

As said above for the short time we take nolva, I doubt it is as dangerous as some suggest, remember women take this stuff for prolonged periods of time for cancer prevention.



DJay said:


> hackskii was wondering if you could help answer a question about my specific cycle.
> 
> im taking 500mg test-e for 10 weeks (not started yet)
> 
> 50mg adex e3d
> 
> Clomid: 50/25/25/25
> 
> Nova: 20/20/20/20
> 
> do you think i should be taking HCG aswell? its my first cycle if that makes any difference.


50mg adex I am sure is a typo, generally I start at .5mg twice a week and go from there.

I think the clomid is a bit low as well, and yes taking HCG during the cycle low dose works wonders for recovery.

Keeping testicular function during the cycle makes recovery far easier.


----------



## DJay

ha yeah 0.5mg per tab is what i meant! imagine eating 50 tablets a day.

thanks for your quick response hackskii ill see about getting some!


----------



## Alfreddokuskwak

I'm soon to start next cycle :

W1-4(/5) @ 2mg MT ed

W1-4(/5?) @ 500 test E

I shouldn't take HCG with such a short cycle i'd reckon,

I was thinking of using arofixen (20mg aromasin + 20 mg nolva) as pct

good/bad idea ? got shut down pretty hard last time using tren and only used nolva back then, so asking for advice

and what would be ideal length for pct ?


----------



## hackskii

MT is methyl test?

If so why that one?


----------



## Alfreddokuskwak

MT = methyltrienolone

and if u'd still need a reason, it's GREAT

But last cycle (a year ago) i've incorporated them in the first few weeks of a 10 week cycle with test E and tren e

when i went off-cycle i crashed like a nucleair bomb! (got hospitalised in the psychiatric department for 2 months)

so i prefer a short cycle now, to see if that works and won't shut me down again like that.

Therefore I'd like your opinion on the pct.


----------



## hackskii

I always suggest HCG, I have never used methyltrienolone myself, heard some good stuff, but I suspect that probably is pretty supressive and pretty liver harsh.

I know you will use what you want to use but crashing can be minimised with the choice of gear and HCG.

I dont crash hard on test cycles, but I use HCG throughout with an AI and as long as the cycle isnt long, recovery is pretty easy, with limited sides.

I did the aromasin, nolva route, I didnt recover.

Clomid in my opinion world the best of any single SERM or AI there is.

I do like nolva and clomid together, at 100mg and 20mg ED.


----------



## dazzer

hi im thinkin of starting the jabs just after some info on witch is best to use, can sus be used alone if so will it show good gains?? i have been takin bcaa amino acid stack but want to see bigger gains can you give me some info please !


----------



## hackskii

Sust works great but you can ask this question an the board, this is a PCT sticky.


----------



## BigBadWolf

Great info hackskii!

Just a few things I need to ask you.

I am currently running:

Weeks 1-12 500mg Sustanon

Weeks 1-10 250mg Deca

Weeks 1-5 40mg Dbol

This is my second cycle in 2 years (previously ran the exact same cycle) and I am following your advice about the HCG. I am on week 9 of my cycle and I have been using HCG from week 4 onwards at 500i.u. per week. I have to say that the boys are fully plump and not shrunk like last time. I guess that's the HCG doing it's magic... I just want to clarify two things.

1) Seeing as I started HCG at week 4, what week do I run the HCG to?

2) Should I start my Clomid/Nolva PCT on week 14 or week 15 (2 or 3 weeks after my last shot of Sus) and at what dose?


----------



## hackskii

Bump the HCG up to 500iu twice a week, start your PCT 3 weeks from last jab and keep the HCG in there.

I would run low dose AI during and lower it twards start date of PCT.

You could even run the HCG a week into PCT.

Run the SERMS a month longer than the last shot of HCG, or 3 weeks on the clomid past last jab of HCG and or a month at start of PCT if not running the HCG the first week.

It could take a month for the sust to clear or just under that, so no problem running the HCG while this clears.


----------



## BigBadWolf

hackskii said:


> Bump the HCG up to 500iu twice a week, start your PCT 3 weeks from last jab and keep the HCG in there.
> 
> I would run low dose AI during and lower it twards start date of PCT.
> 
> You could even run the HCG a week into PCT.
> 
> Run the SERMS a month longer than the last shot of HCG, or 3 weeks on the clomid past last jab of HCG and or a month at start of PCT if not running the HCG the first week.
> 
> It could take a month for the sust to clear or just under that, so no problem running the HCG while this clears.


 Thanks for that. I'll bump the HCG up to 1000iu weekly over 2 shots and finish the HCG a week or so before my PCT.

On the Clomid/Nolva - Would this 4 week dose be enough for PCT?

Clomid: 100/100/50/50

Nolva: 20/20/20/20


----------



## Alfreddokuskwak

btw, what's your insight op triptorelin ? Have u tried it or people you know ?

if been reading some positive results lately, but all from the same source so dunno whether to believe it or not ?


----------



## hackskii

BigBadWolf said:


> Thanks for that. I'll bump the HCG up to 1000iu weekly over 2 shots and finish the HCG a week or so before my PCT.
> 
> On the Clomid/Nolva - Would this 4 week dose be enough for PCT?
> 
> Clomid: 100/100/50/50
> 
> Nolva: 20/20/20/20


Now this is going to sound like a riddle but here goes.

If the testicles are functioning then yes, if not then no.

The key is the nuts in recovery.



Alfreddokuskwak said:


> btw, what's your insight op triptorelin ? Have u tried it or people you know ?
> 
> if been reading some positive results lately, but all from the same source so dunno whether to believe it or not ?


Not used it myself, but have heard others that have.

Some suggest it does nothing for the 19-nor compounds, and basicly it keeps the pituitary working even on cycle.

That would probably off the nuts some stimulation to keep them active making recovery easier.

HCG will do the same thing actually.

I dont know really as I have never used it.

If it is only one source suggesting something it might be a good idea to see if others validate.


----------



## pixiesfan

A nice read tyvm.


----------



## hackskii

willpkr said:


> hi, i am having problems. i was really stupid and did a 16 week cycle of A50's at 150mg ED with m1t 20mg (im actually serious) . i lost my libido on cycle but its even worse now, i cant even get it up. very much shut down it seems despite having been on nolva and clomid for 2 weeks already, although, my balls did not shrink on cycle. so i am confused. Age 21. what could anyone suggest


Damn, you probably need a new liver too...............just kiddin but kind of serious.

You probably need some HCG along with those other goodies you are taking.

Both of those are very suppressive, and hard on the liver.


----------



## hackskii

Problem likely is you do not have testicular function.

All that other stuff pretty much is window dressing.

HCG does come in sublingual preparations for the HCG diet, not sure how effective that would be though.

HCG uses a very small needle the size of a hair, and 1/4" long, (28 gauge) and gets injected into belly fat, it is totally painless.

With the use of HCG you will make the month mark, without, maybe not.

Those orals you took are very suppressive, its impossible to say when you will recover.


----------



## webby06_2007

out of intrest what pct would you recommend for someone that cant take clomid? due to bad anxiety when taking them? i dont intend on coming off from my blast cruise for a long long long time yet just wondered if there was an alternative or not???


----------



## hackskii

webby06_2007 said:


> out of intrest what pct would you recommend for someone that cant take clomid? due to bad anxiety when taking them? i dont intend on coming off from my blast cruise for a long long long time yet just wondered if there was an alternative or not???


Have a read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_estrogen_receptor_modulator

But to be honest it could have been low testosterone levels that caused anxiety issues, that is super common whereas anxiety issues is not all that common with clomid.


----------



## Geordie_1

Hi hackskii

Wanting to seek your advice on this one! I am soon to finish a ten week test cyp cycle and was thinking about either coming off ad doing my PCT or doing a course of masteron! If I did the masteron would I need to still do any PCT for the test, I guess not because I would imagine the masteron is still going to shut me down???

My cycle is below

HGH 3iu per day

2ml test cyp per week

40mg winny per day

I assume from what I have read that I could continue my HGH during PCT?

Thanks in advance fella,

Sorry if some of these questions are daft


----------



## hackskii

HGH is fine, the mast will further inhibit your HPTA.


----------



## Geordie_1

Thanks buddy

Should I hang on till the masteron is finished before starting the PCT then?

Also would you use an AI such as Arimidex on the masteron?

Many thanks


----------



## hackskii

No need for an AI with masteron.

I personally dont like mast only cycles.


----------



## Geordie_1

Hackskii

I'll be stacking the mast with HGH and winstrol.

I personally think my nipples are slightly puffy from the test will nolvadex help this in the correct dose?


----------



## hackskii

Geordie_1 said:


> Hackskii
> 
> I'll be stacking the mast with HGH and winstrol.
> 
> I personally think my nipples are slightly puffy from the test will nolvadex help this in the correct dose?


You wont need nolva, both mast and winstrol wont aromatize, so chances are you will be low in estrogen during this cycle as endogenous testosterone production wont be happening.

So, there wont be much estrogen around and when this happens you might lose libido and probably wont feel all that good, and perhaps you might have some joint stiffness as well.


----------



## LOCUST

Hacks. I'm looking for a heads up on a pct for after my next cycle.

I usually take a while to recover.

The longest ester I'm using will be cyp.

I have access to hmg at the mo I can get 8 vials. Just finding out the iu.

I will be using hcg on cycle from the start at 500iu x 2 a week.

If i was to use the hmg when and at what dosage and with what serms mate ?

I would prob use prov in pct too. 50mg a day.

Cheers bro


----------



## hackskii

HMG comes in 75/75 and 150/150

You can use that during as well if you like.

You would have to modify your HCG some but nothing drastic.

How many weeks for your cycle?


----------



## LOCUST

Thanknyou for the reply mate.

The hmg is the 75/75 type

It will be 12-14 weeks as I'll run an oral to pct.

But there will be some tren in there.


----------



## Geordie_1

hackskii said:


> You wont need nolva, both mast and winstrol wont aromatize, so chances are you will be low in estrogen during this cycle as endogenous testosterone production wont be happening.
> 
> So, there wont be much estrogen around and when this happens you might lose libido and probably wont feel all that good, and perhaps you might have some joint stiffness as well.


Would the nolvadex be useful in case I have any excess estrogen from the test? Will the nolvadex help reduce puffy nipples?

Thanks in advance hackskii


----------



## hackskii

LOCUST said:


> Thanknyou for the reply mate.
> 
> The hmg is the 75/75 type
> 
> It will be 12-14 weeks as I'll run an oral to pct.
> 
> But there will be some tren in there.


You could toss an amp of the HMG in once a week if you like.



Geordie_1 said:


> Would the nolvadex be useful in case I have any excess estrogen from the test? Will the nolvadex help reduce puffy nipples?
> 
> Thanks in advance hackskii


I always recommend an AI during the cycles and the SERMS post cycle, or during PCT, or using them post AI use for estrogen rebounding.

I think most guys trying to reverse gyno will have better luck with an AI than a SERM.

Also nolva will lower blood plasma levels of AI's if used with them.


----------



## LOCUST

Is that the only way to use it?

Could I use hcg through and hmg after?

Would I use you standard serms with that like in the pct thread?


----------



## anacoholic

hackskii, thanks for all that great info,answers in this thread!

I have few questions for you;

Do you think full HPTA recovery is a must before you jump on another cycle? If you don't let your HPTA return back it's own functioning, and start jabbing again, do you think that will make the following pct harder or damage HPTA permanently?


----------



## hackskii

LOCUST said:


> Is that the only way to use it?
> 
> Could I use hcg through and hmg after?
> 
> Would I use you standard serms with that like in the pct thread?


You could use it during and you can use it after.

Like HCG I prefer to keep things alive then bring them back from the dead.

I have never used HMG myself and for those that cant seem to recover it does aid in recovery.



anacoholic said:


> hackskii, thanks for all that great info,answers in this thread!
> 
> I have few questions for you;
> 
> Do you think full HPTA recovery is a must before you jump on another cycle? If you don't let your HPTA return back it's own functioning, and start jabbing again, do you think that will make the following pct harder or damage HPTA permanently?


If the HPTA is not fully functional and you start another cycle it may make recovery harder in the long run as it is kind of like staying on.

I have only known one guy that did not recover after years of being on, and I do suspect that he may have recovered but he went on TRT.

Some suggest there could be some perminant damage but I really dont know for sure if this is true.

We decline as we age anyway, so I guess it is possible.

But remember many things can be compromised post cycle, like lipid profiles, adrenal function, among other things, sperm count, etc.


----------



## connor_199

Found this thread really useful, thank you!


----------



## Drozich

Hi Guys,

After an 8 weeks cycle of dianabol at 40mg ED. At what point should I start PCT?

Thanks!!


----------



## Graham-jack

Drozich said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> After an 8 weeks cycle of dianabol at 40mg ED. At what point should I start PCT?
> 
> Thanks!!


5-10 days after


----------



## hackskii

Drozich said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> After an 8 weeks cycle of dianabol at 40mg ED. At what point should I start PCT?
> 
> Thanks!!


Next day.


----------



## TheEnglishHulk

By far the best post I've read in my life.

Every post you see out there is always about the main part of the cycle and never about the most important part...PCT

Thanks alot for this thread... I've listed it as a favorites for when i want to re read it.


----------



## Sk1nny

Hi hacksii, quick question on how long is too long for hcg use and at what doses. Obviously with a view to avoiding desensitisation of leydig cells. Is say 10 weeks @ 1000iu 1x ew too much?


----------



## SD

Sk1nny said:


> Hi hacksii, quick question on how long is too long for hcg use and at what doses. Obviously with a view to avoiding desensitisation of leydig cells. Is say 10 weeks @ 1000iu 1x ew too much?


I know this was aimed at Hacks but I am sure he wont mind me saving him having to type with his arthritic fingers ; )

In a nutshell...No! 1000iu is not a large dose, by my endo's standards 5000iu wasnt a large dose and didnt raise an eybrow. Most cycles I have done, I did 1500iu ew for up to 12 weeks and I have no desensitisation : )

SD


----------



## Sk1nny

Thanks SD


----------



## hackskii

Sk1nny said:


> Hi hacksii, quick question on how long is too long for hcg use and at what doses. Obviously with a view to avoiding desensitisation of leydig cells. Is say 10 weeks @ 1000iu 1x ew too much?


SD is right, and if you use nolva, you have some protection against that.

I use 20,000 myself, wheather it is during, or after the cycle, or varying degrees in and after the cycle, but I need about 20,000iu to recover.


----------



## Sk1nny

Thanks Hacksii. I do have another 5000iu maybe I'll use that aswell


----------



## MrWibble

I'm doing my first jab cycle 10 week test and 4 week dbol, how about this for a cycle with Pct?

Weeks 1-4 - dbol - 30mg ed

Weeks 1-10 - test e - 500mg ew

Weeks 5-10 - proviron - 50mg ed

Weeks 13-15 - nolva - 10mg ed


----------



## hackskii

DWalkington said:


> I'm doing my first jab cycle 10 week test and 4 week dbol, how about this for a cycle with Pct?
> 
> Weeks 1-4 - dbol - 30mg ed
> 
> Weeks 1-10 - test e - 500mg ew
> 
> Weeks 5-10 - proviron - 50mg ed
> 
> Weeks 13-15 - nolva - 10mg ed


I would bump that to 20mg and add clomid in there if it was me.


----------



## MrWibble

hackskii said:


> I would bump that to 20mg and add clomid in there if it was me.


kk sweet thanks man!! but the rest is fine right? and like the weeks im taking them?


----------



## hackskii

DWalkington said:


> kk sweet thanks man!! but the rest is fine right? and like the weeks im taking them?


Looks ok to me.

I would have an AI on hand for estrogen management though.


----------



## MrWibble

hackskii said:


> Looks ok to me.
> 
> I would have an AI on hand for estrogen management though.


Such as what bud what would you recommend? Would thus be taken while on the cycle? An oral preferably


----------



## hackskii

Yes, on cycle, something low like .5mg adex EOD


----------



## MrWibble

For 10 weeks? Thanks bud appreciate help


----------



## hackskii

For the length of the cycle, and even into the clearance time of the gear.


----------



## TF03

Great read that hackskii. There does seem to be a lot of contrasting opinions on PCT, what to take, when to take, if you need it etc! But that helps loads.

The one that seems to be cropping up a lot at the moment is PCT for anavar! Ranging from you don't need it to Nolva and Clomid. What would be you opinions on it? Talking dosage of 80-100mg ed for 6-8 weeks?


----------



## hackskii

TF03 said:


> Great read that hackskii. There does seem to be a lot of contrasting opinions on PCT, what to take, when to take, if you need it etc! But that helps loads.
> 
> The one that seems to be cropping up a lot at the moment is PCT for anavar! Ranging from you don't need it to Nolva and Clomid. What would be you opinions on it? Talking dosage of 80-100mg ed for 6-8 weeks?


I took anavar @ 75mg a day for 7 weeks, and did notice some testicular atrophy.

It is a little suppressive but I don't think anything aggressive would be needed, probably most would be fine with clomid.


----------



## Wardy211436114751

What PCT prep would you recommend for

a) mild D-bol course B) mild H-drol course

This would be my first cycle.

Thanks in advance


----------



## hackskii

Wardy21 said:


> What PCT prep would you recommend for
> 
> a) mild D-bol course B) mild H-drol course
> 
> This would be my first cycle.
> 
> Thanks in advance


I cant comment as I don't know anything about designer steroids or pro-hormones.


----------



## Wardy211436114751

hackskii said:


> I cant comment as I don't know anything about designer steroids or pro-hormones.


  So you have never used D-bol?


----------



## hackskii

Wardy21 said:


> So you have never used D-bol?


My bad, yes I have.

How long is your cycle for and how much are you considering taking.

Why not just dbol alone?


----------



## Wardy211436114751

hackskii said:


> My bad, yes I have.
> 
> How long is your cycle for and how much are you considering taking.
> 
> Why not just dbol alone?


30-50mg a day. When you say D-Bol alone you mean without PCT? I was planning 30-50mg D-Bol and clomid/nolva as suggested for PCT.


----------



## hackskii

Wardy21 said:


> 30-50mg a day. When you say D-Bol alone you mean without PCT? I was planning 30-50mg D-Bol and clomid/nolva as suggested for PCT.


30 to 50mg dbol a day would give you nice gains, but at 50mg you may experience estrogenic sides, I would suggest an AI with that just for estrogen management.

6 weeks would be fine, strength gains are pretty good with dbol.

Clomid/nolva PCT would start next day after last tab, and drop the AI day 1 of PCT.

Me personally I would do 3 weeks clomid, 4 nolva and then re-evaluate your gains, water should be gone by then and then you can access what you achieved.


----------



## Wardy211436114751

hackskii said:


> 30 to 50mg dbol a day would give you nice gains, but at 50mg you may experience estrogenic sides, I would suggest an AI with that just for estrogen management.
> 
> 6 weeks would be fine, strength gains are pretty good with dbol.
> 
> Clomid/nolva PCT would start next day after last tab, and drop the AI day 1 of PCT.
> 
> Me personally I would do 3 weeks clomid, 4 nolva and then re-evaluate your gains, water should be gone by then and then you can access what you achieved.


How does 6 weeks at 50mg sound? Or would you recommend 6 weeks at 30mg for first ever cycle? Could you tell me how much nolva and clomid I should use for PCT? Also pardon the dumb q but whats AI?

Appreciate you spoon feeding me- once/if I do my first cycle I will be better informed and can stop asking dumb questions lol


----------



## hackskii

Wardy21 said:


> How does 6 weeks at 50mg sound? Or would you recommend 6 weeks at 30mg for first ever cycle? Could you tell me how much nolva and clomid I should use for PCT? Also pardon the dumb q but whats AI?
> 
> Appreciate you spoon feeding me- once/if I do my first cycle I will be better informed and can stop asking dumb questions lol


Questions might have been a bit more appropriate regarding PCT on this sticky.

50mg is more than enough d-bol for a first cycle.

AI is aromatase inhibitor, and personally I would get that prior to starting your cycle as gyno is very common for gyno symptoms.

I would do more reading first before you begin your cycle.


----------



## newbie 99

hey hackskii great advice all round mate just a quick question based on the 30 day clomid/45day nolva system, with the clomid is that 50 mg twice a day-100mg in all or 50mg split twice a day..so 25mg twice a day?

thanks.


----------



## hackskii

newbie 99 said:


> hey hackskii great advice all round mate just a quick question based on the 30 day clomid/45day nolva system, with the clomid is that 50 mg twice a day-100mg in all or 50mg split twice a day..so 25mg twice a day?
> 
> thanks.


50 + 50 to equal 100mg ED.


----------



## DJ_JonPowell

Hi Hacksii,

Sorry to hi-jack the thead. I've read a load of the threads and just need a quick pointer on what is best to use for my PCT.

I'm just about to start doing 5 weeks of Test Propinate (25mg) and Stanazolol (50mg) each at twice a week.

What would you recommend as the best PCT and when is best to start it.

Many Thanks

Jon


----------



## hackskii

DJ_JonPowell said:


> Hi Hacksii,
> 
> Sorry to hi-jack the thead. I've read a load of the threads and just need a quick pointer on what is best to use for my PCT.
> 
> I'm just about to start doing 5 weeks of Test Propinate (25mg) and Stanazolol (50mg) each at twice a week.
> 
> What would you recommend as the best PCT and when is best to start it.
> 
> Many Thanks
> 
> Jon


Something seems wrong to me here.

Are you saying 25mg test prop twice a week, and 50mg winny twice a week?

150mg a week, for 5 weeks?

If so dont waste your time, that wont do anything.


----------



## newbie 99

Thanks for clearing that up for me , thought thats how it was in the first place, 2nd guessing. thanks again.. its all a great help.


----------



## Airborne Shaun

Great help. Thanks


----------



## DJ_JonPowell

hackskii said:


> Something seems wrong to me here.
> 
> Are you saying 25mg test prop twice a week, and 50mg winny twice a week?
> 
> 150mg a week, for 5 weeks?
> 
> If so dont waste your time, that wont do anything.


Hi Mate,

just had another look and took your comments on board.

I had bought it with the intention of doing 5 weeks as said but i got it a bit late and I'm going away 3 weeks on friday so will just do it all before then.

I'm going to do;

Monday - Winstrol x 75mg

Tuesday - Test x 50mg

WEdnesday - n/a

Thursday - Winstrol x 75mg

Friday - Winstrol x 50mg

Saturday - n/a

Sunday - n/a

what would you think to that?

Cheers

J


----------



## hackskii

DJ_JonPowell said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> just had another look and took your comments on board.
> 
> I had bought it with the intention of doing 5 weeks as said but i got it a bit late and I'm going away 3 weeks on friday so will just do it all before then.
> 
> I'm going to do;
> 
> Monday - Winstrol x 75mg
> 
> Tuesday - Test x 50mg
> 
> WEdnesday - n/a
> 
> Thursday - Winstrol x 75mg
> 
> Friday - Winstrol x 50mg
> 
> Saturday - n/a
> 
> Sunday - n/a
> 
> what would you think to that?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> J


I think you will be disappointed and are wasting your time.

This is a PCT sticky, put the question on the open forum and go from there.


----------



## LDouble3

Hacks ...

I have been blasting and crusing now since December, and currently i am running my last Blast before i come off after my Holiday.

My current cycle is:

Test Enanthate 500mg per week, GBol 150mg per week & Adex .5 E3D.

I will be starting HCG this week to help when i start PCT, i will run 500iu twice per week and probably up the adex dose with this.

I aim to Run PCT and stay off cycle till around December / January time as i want to give me body a good break from it.

My PCT i have planned is:

Week 1 - 100mg Clomid & 40mg Nolva

Week 2 - 100mg Clomid & 40mg Nolva

Week 3 - 50mg Clomid & 20mg Nolva

Week 4 - 50mg Clomid & 20mg Nolva

Week 5 - 20mg Nolva

I will continue HCG possibly into the 1st week and continue Adex if needed.

My main question is would it be possible for me to get a 'good' recovery running my PCT *with out* Clomid? In my last PCT in 2010 Clomid serious played games with my head and i suffered bad from it. Also about rebounding off the Adex, should i continue it while on PCT or discontinue and then maybe run adex when PCT is finished to be safe?

Thanks again for your time


----------



## hackskii

First you didnt give the time frame of your holliday.

Testicular function is the number one thing in recovery, for being on 6 months with no LH stimulation I would suggest you probably will crash as that much HCG probably wont reverse the lack of testicular function with such low dose and low stimulation that 500iu twice a week gives.

500iu twice a week is about almost enough to keep testicular function if they are already functioning, but after 6 months time with no stimulation, that probably wont due.

I personally dont like nolva only SERM PCT's but then again some it is ok.

Adex wont be needed and nolva will lower blood plasma levels of adex anyway.

Post cycle when testosterone levels are low and a AI was used during, estrogen should not be a problem and if it is the nolva will protect you anyway.


----------



## LDouble3

Hacks, cheers man.

Basically ill be stopping cycle week i go away, im then away for a week, ill be waiting a week when i return then beginning PCT. Giving 2 weeks from final Injection.

So if i am running HCG now while on cycle for the last 6-7 weeks would you use maybe around 2000iu Per week? and up Adex Dose while using HCG then drop Adex when SERMS begin?


----------



## hackskii

LDouble3 said:


> Hacks, cheers man.
> 
> Basically ill be stopping cycle week i go away, im then away for a week, ill be waiting a week when i return then beginning PCT. Giving 2 weeks from final Injection.
> 
> So if i am running HCG now while on cycle for the last 6-7 weeks would you use maybe around 2000iu Per week? and up Adex Dose while using HCG then drop Adex when SERMS begin?


Its hard to say really, honestly I dont think the nuts are ready.

You could run the HCG all the way though clearance time and even in the PCT itself.

Idea is to get the nuts rolling so once the pituitary fires up LH the nuts are ready and willing to go to work.


----------



## LDouble3

What do you mean ready mate? I no they will be pretty shut down.

Do you mean if i start now 6 - 7 weeks @ 2000iu per week wouldnt be enough before PCT starts?


----------



## hackskii

LDouble3 said:


> What do you mean ready mate? I no they will be pretty shut down.
> 
> Do you mean if i start now 6 - 7 weeks @ 2000iu per week wouldnt be enough before PCT starts?


Ready meaning once you stop the HCG the nuts will accept the stimulation of the clomid to tell the nuts to go back to work.

Honestly 14000iu of HCG after 6 months of suppression probably wont be enough to do that job.

If I had to guess it would be closer to 20000, to 25000iu but then again we are all different.

Depending on how you respond to that then you may or may not recover.


----------



## LDouble3

Cheers mate, ill do 2000iu Twice per week leading up to PCT then, that way ill have put 24000iu in me by the time PCT starts.

Thanks again.


----------



## hackskii

Better protect yourself with some nolva if you are going to do that.

You could get gyno bad within just one day.


----------



## LDouble3

Nolva instead of Adex? I thought adex was better than Nolva as nolva just blocked it with chances of a rebound then when stopping use?


----------



## hackskii

LDouble3 said:


> Nolva instead of Adex? I thought adex was better than Nolva as nolva just blocked it with chances of a rebound then when stopping use?


If you are using HCG then I would suggest nolva because it protects the leydig cells from desensitization, not sure if an AI does this though.

I do agree, during a cycle for sure an AI over a SERM, but for PCT, a SERM over an AI.

But yes you are correct.


----------



## tyz123

i done a dbol 30mg ED cycle for 6 weeks and also shot NPP on the 5 week and again a day later of 100mg , i have been in PCT now for ruffely 10days and my balls are still small ive been takin clomid and nolva ?? do i need to get HCG


----------



## hackskii

tyz123 said:


> i done a dbol 30mg ED cycle for 6 weeks and also shot NPP on the 5 week and again a day later of 100mg , i have been in PCT now for ruffely 10days and my balls are still small ive been takin clomid and nolva ?? do i need to get HCG


How long were you on NPP for and how much?


----------



## tyz123

only done two jabs of 100mg


----------



## hackskii

Probably just a simple nolva/clomid PCT then would be fine.


----------



## tyz123

ive been doing clomid and nolva for 18 days now io think they are coming back but slowely are they meant to return fast or ? thanks for the help btw aswell mate


----------



## hackskii

Depends, if the testicles are functioning then yes, if not then no.


----------



## tyz123

well i swear there getting bigger daily but a small amount ?


----------



## hackskii

tyz123 said:


> well i swear there getting bigger daily but a small amount ?


Small amount?

I dont understand.


----------



## tyz123

size of testicles , there getting bigger daily but only by a small amount ?


----------



## hackskii

tyz123 said:


> size of testicles , there getting bigger daily but only by a small amount ?


Well, no real indication in recovery actually.

Leydig cells only comprise about 10% of testicle size.

But yah, better than not:lol:


----------



## tyz123

ok thanks so alls good then


----------



## Ahal84

I need some help guys. I will be running my first cycle in October, it will be 12 weeks long of Test E by kick starting with Dbol. Test E 500mg a week divided so it's 250mg, Dbol 30mg for 4 weeks. I have Nolva and Clomid, but I'm slightly confused with HCG. This is what I was thinking: start HCG on the fourth week of the cycle and do 250ui with every shot of Test, until the end of the cycle and then jump on PCT without HCG.

1) Is that too long to run HCG for 8 weeks?

2) Should I start PCT straight away when i finish my last shot of Test or?

Sorry guys I know it's stupid, but I would rather be prepared. Thank you


----------



## hackskii

I would start today and run 500iu twice a week throughout, and even in the 2 to 3 weeks clearance time.

Run an AI with that.

Clomid and nolva for PCT starting week 3 after last shot.


----------



## Ahal84

hackskii said:


> I would start today and run 500iu twice a week throughout, and even in the 2 to 3 weeks clearance time.
> 
> Run an AI with that.
> 
> Clomid and nolva for PCT starting week 3 after last shot.


Thank you


----------



## SASUK

Great post  bookmarked for furture reference and to forward people too


----------



## get-big

hi all quick question for you i understand pct. But ive heard you can now do pct wiith tablets is this true and does it work the same.

A bloke t the local gym sid to me he got some pct tabs from ebay and worked fine for him so got him to sent me the link here it is what you guys think. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Anabolic-Xtreme-Advanced-PCT-Anti-Estrogen-90-Capsules-/260794057874?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&var=&hash=item8264777e87


----------



## newbie 99

hacks ive got a question for you, ive done 10days so far on 100mg clomid and 20mg nolva problem is my daft gf has binned my clomid an i cant get any more so would i be safe running 40mg of nolva for the next 15 days and 20mg nolva for the 10 days after that ??? as i ve got loads of this left

This is on the back of 4 wks 35mg e/d dbol and 10wks 500mg p/wk test e.

Thanks again.


----------



## hackskii

Just run the nolva @ 20mg for a month then.

And bin the GF for touching your stuff:lol:


----------



## newbie 99

cheers hacks, good man 20mg it is then. would proviron help at all as a mate gave me some brit dragon prov he had left over??


----------



## hackskii

If androgens are low then it could help make you feel better but do nothing to treat a dysfunctional HPTA.


----------



## newbie 99

Thanks again Hacks.


----------



## Jon5

Hackskii,

I am going to shortly start a 6 week cycle of Test P @ 500mg per week (will be my first cycle). I have a couple of questions though on HCG, AI and PCT......

I plan to use HCG throughout at 1000iu a week. Can i do this as one shot or is it better to split into 2x500iu? Also does it matter time wise when i jab this?

For an AI I am going to use adex. I was planning to start with .5mg EOD and then adjust it from there. Is that a good start?

For PCT should i do Clomid at 100mg ED for 30 days and Nolva 20mg ED for 45 days (as your sticky) or Clomid 100/100/50/50 Nolva 20/20/20/20? Just a bit confused as to whether i need to adjust the PCT if the cycle is shorter etc.

Sorry for all the questions!


----------



## hackskii

Well 6 week cycles probably wont be very suppressive.

I would keep the HCG at 500 because you don't want the spikes in estrogen, and even if one shot works best 6 weeks isn't very suppressive.

Start PCT 3 days from last jab and you can probably get away with just 2 to 3 weeks clomid and 3 to 4 weeks nolva.

You should bounce back very fast.

Recovery could literally be just a couple of weeks.


----------



## Jon5

Thanks Hackskii


----------



## Arlo1983

Hey Hackskii! My apologies if you've already covered this, but I'm in kind of in a difficult situation. I was on a small to moderate amount of gear between October 2009 and August 2010, at which point I took Clomid as PCT @ 100mg first day/50mg ED after that for 2 weeks. My libido finally started to return to normal in April 2011, but a month later my left nipple gland became swollen and painful. I left it for a month hoping it would go away, but it didn't. Thinking it was gyno, I started taking Nolva @ 20mg ED about a month ago, which took care of my nipple after about 2 weeks (I'm still taking it just to make sure it doesn't come back). I also started taking 100mg of Clomid ED about a week ago after I found out the two work well together because I really want to make sure that things return to normal, which is apparently when you wake up with an erection every morning on a consistent basis. I don't know if it's because I'm 28 years old now, but I definitely haven't been waking up with boners on a consistent basis since I came off a year ago. In your opinion, do you think I should continue taking Nolva @ 20mg ED and Clomid @ 100mg ED for a few more weeks until that happens? Thank you so much for your help... I'm dying to feel normal again!


----------



## hackskii

Yah, that is what I would do.

It could take a year to recover from your last jab.

This is one reason why I dont like the idea of long cycles, it makes recovery much harder.

It probably would have been a good idea to have the HCG back when you came off.


----------



## Arlo1983

Awesome, thanks for your help! In hindsight, I made a lot of mistakes when I was on because I was acting on the advice of a few friends as opposed to doing my own research. I'll continue taking Nolva and Clomid ED until I feel confident that I'm back to normal. I was just a little concerned because my libido started to peak when I first added the Clomid, but it has cooled off a bit. From what I've read, that's happening because my estrogen levels are starting to dip, and estrogen plays an important role in libido (along with test, of course). I don't care how I'm functioning right now, as long as I'll be fine when I'm done taking the PCT!


----------



## hackskii

I would run both the clomid and nolva together, I would run the clomid at 100mg a day at least for the first week.

If you notice night time wood or more libido then all is good.

You cant really judge libido when taking SERMS, they can negatively impact your libido.


----------



## latblaster

An well written & informative post. Thank you.


----------



## ivan360

Need some advice Hackskii, Im 28 years old, 5'7" and 190 lbs and this will be the first time trying steroids. Im planning on doing a 8-week cycle of 500 mg Sustanon. Should I do two-250 a week or 500 in one shot? Im also planning on using HCG during the cycle to avoid anthrophy. How much do I need to use, how often and when do i start using it and for how long? DO I still need to use AI?

For my PCT I'll be using Clomid and Nolva like you suggested. Any advice on the dosage for my 8 week cycle? Lastly, when should I start my PCT?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again. PS. would a six week cycle be better for a first time user? Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Shot can be either once or twice a week, I prefer once a week unless the pain is too much.

It wont make any difference on gains either way.

Take an AI throughout, low dose.

HCG 500iu twice a week throughout.

3 weeks from last jab minimum to start your PCT and HCG can be run while the sust clears.

I would run the Clomid at 100mg starting week 3 after last jab, could actually wait a month and that probably would be a better idea as we don't want the androgen's negatively impacting your own levels when you are trying to fire things up with the clomid and nolva.

Could wait 4 weeks from last jab, stay with the HCG while this is happening, then drop the HCG and start your clomid and nolva at 100mg clomid and 20mg nolva for 3 weeks and 4 weeks.


----------



## Conscript

hackskii said:


> I would run both the clomid and nolva together, I would run the clomid at 100mg a day at least for the first week.
> 
> If you notice night time wood or more libido then all is good.
> 
> You cant really judge libido when taking *SERMS, they can negatively impact your libido*.


Hackskii, are you specifically relating to Clomid here - increased test causing more aromatise and therefore more estrogen or is there more to it than this? This why something like Aromasin would be beneficial to PCT?

Sorry if a stupid question, I have been drinking all afternoon lol....


----------



## hackskii

Remember that SERMS are can be both a mixed agonist/antagonist at the estradiol receptor.

Nolva can actually lower free test due to higher levels of SHBG.

It depends on the person, some guys are a mess on clomid, others like myself find nothing but vision problems after about 3 weeks being on.

I personally think using an AI with PCT is not a good idea.

First estrogen should not be a problem if you used an AI during your cycle, and with low T levels, there should not be alot of conversion from T to E anyway.

Second, lowering estrogen too low can compromise already compromised lipid profiles, hinder libido, cause mood issues, bone loss, among other things.

I don't see it as necessary actually, nor any benefit.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> Shot can be either once or twice a week, I prefer once a week unless the pain is too much.
> 
> It wont make any difference on gains either way.
> 
> Take an AI throughout, low dose.
> 
> HCG 500iu twice a week throughout.
> 
> 3 weeks from last jab minimum to start your PCT and HCG can be run while the sust clears.
> 
> I would run the Clomid at 100mg starting week 3 after last jab, could actually wait a month and that probably would be a better idea as we don't want the androgen's negatively impacting your own levels when you are trying to fire things up with the clomid and nolva.
> 
> Could wait 4 weeks from last jab, stay with the HCG while this is happening, then drop the HCG and start your clomid and nolva at 100mg clomid and 20mg nolva for 3 weeks and 4 weeks.


How much AI should I take lets say Arimidex?

How about for a 500mg Susta 6-week cycle with HCG and AI throughtout, when do i start the PCT? Thanks again man!


----------



## hackskii

3-4 weeks from last shot of sust to start PCT.

Adex throughout start week two at .5mg twice a week, then like week 5 or so you can bump that up to .5 EOD and keep that till you start PCT then drop the AI.

HCG @ 500iu twice a week starting mid way through week one, stay with that to the start of PCT then drop.

100mg clomid split dose (50 morning 50 evening) for 21 days.

20mg nolva for 30 days.

I personally would start PCT 4 weeks from last jab of sust.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> 3-4 weeks from last shot of sust to start PCT.
> 
> Adex throughout start week two at .5mg twice a week, then like week 5 or so you can bump that up to .5 EOD and keep that till you start PCT then drop the AI.
> 
> HCG @ 500iu twice a week starting mid way through week one, stay with that to the start of PCT then drop.
> 
> 100mg clomid split dose (50 morning 50 evening) for 21 days.
> 
> 20mg nolva for 30 days.
> 
> I personally would start PCT 4 weeks from last jab of sust.


Thanks man! will do exactly what you said


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> 3-4 weeks from last shot of sust to start PCT.
> 
> Adex throughout start week two at .5mg twice a week, then like week 5 or so you can bump that up to .5 EOD and keep that till you start PCT then drop the AI.
> 
> HCG @ 500iu twice a week starting mid way through week one, stay with that to the start of PCT then drop.
> 
> 100mg clomid split dose (50 morning 50 evening) for 21 days.
> 
> 20mg nolva for 30 days.
> 
> I personally would start PCT 4 weeks from last jab of sust.


The adex I got is in capsule form. Any idea on how i can split and take it in .5mg. Thanks


----------



## Notts

Hi Hackskii, as I'll not be running a cycle for about a couple of years I figured this is a good time to start researching. Wow how times and opinions in the steroid world have changed.

I'm currently reading the pros and cons of short cycle (8-10wk) with moderate to high doses (500mg-1g/wk) Vs longer cycles (16-20wk) with low doses (250-300mg).

Having read, and thoroughly enjoyed your post I'm interested what you would recommend for the Longer cycle guys? say 300mg test/wk for 20 weeks?


----------



## gavzilla

hi mate ive been using proviron and im 30. ive been using gear for about 10 year now on and off. ive been back on for 10 weeks and ive had 11 months off due to trying for children. during my time off i used various cycles of pct and i eventually got my girlfriend pregnant with twins. have a look up on proviron, i use proviron now with novadex10/20 mg, clomid, hcg and proviron. proviron does something to my hormones and increases my sex drive and i wake up with a hard on from hell. my girlfriend is sick of the aggressive sex but its great to feel 16 again lol! proviron also keeps the gyno down. hope that helps mate.


----------



## PureZoned

First of all I'd like to say what a fantastic post Hackskii. This has really helped me understand PCT and how neccassary it is. I would like some advice if possible. I've just started my first cycle and was wondering what PCT to undertake. I'm pretty new to the steroid scene so i'm glad theres a community out there thats as helpful.

Basically i'll be taking sustanon 250mg per week and nandralone decanoate 200mg per week, for 8 weeks, doubling the dose midway through the cycle then back down to 250mg/200mg. I think i'd have to start the PCT 2-3 weeks after the cycle is complete as far as I understand I was gonna take clomid and nova but really not sure how much to take and how often, or if HCG is neccassary? Any help would be awesome.

Cheers


----------



## hackskii

Well, if one was to use HCG low dose throughout the cycle one would have a faster recovery.

As long as the start time of the SERMS is done right and one has full testicular function prior to, one should recover pretty well.


----------



## c2c

hackskii you clearlly know you stuff on this, but i keep reeding posts where people are taking fairly hi doses and the not doing a pct, all the pros and cons got me cofused, dbecause deep dowm i dont wanna do a pct if i dont have too.

but i know i gotta do one, i'm sue. just you ever not done one after a cycle and what was that like.

thanks c2c


----------



## hackskii

c2c said:


> hackskii you clearlly know you stuff on this, but i keep reeding posts where people are taking fairly hi doses and the not doing a pct, all the pros and cons got me cofused, dbecause deep dowm i dont wanna do a pct if i dont have too.
> 
> but i know i gotta do one, i'm sue. just you ever not done one after a cycle and what was that like.
> 
> thanks c2c


I also know guys that have not recovered after a year (no PCT), do you think they would ask the same question?


----------



## c2c

hackskii said:


> I also know guys that have not recovered after a year (no PCT), do you think they would ask the same question?


no he wouldnt, not against it but just woundered if it was for evryone, maybee you do a few cycles and find you recover ok, but then maybee further down the line you find recovery harder ,then run a pct?

just thinking we take a lot of serms, ai's, hcg just to prevent negative sides that may/may not happen.


----------



## datdere

Hackskii, what do you think of my cycle plans

1-12 test e 500mgs/week

1-5 dbol 30mgs/day

1-15 arimidex 0.5 mgs e3d

2-14 HCG 500 ius/week

15-18 nolva 20/20/20/20

any advice? If my atrophy still occurrs I may bump it to 1000 ius of HCG

Thanks allot


----------



## hackskii

Looks fine to me, I like clomid in the PCT but that looks nice, and well thought out.

I would run the HCG at 500iu twice a week myself.


----------



## datdere

hackskii said:


> Looks fine to me, I like clomid in the PCT but that looks nice, and well thought out.
> 
> I would run the HCG at 500iu twice a week myself.


Thanks


----------



## ivan360

hi Hacks, the cycle im planning looks like this

6 weeks cycle of 500mg sustanon

HCG 500ui 2x week during cycle

adex .5 2x week during cycle

then after 4 weeks from last jab i'll start my PCT with nolva 50 mg for 30 days and clomid 100mg for 21 days

does this look good?

is this suppressive enough to affect my sex drive? can i add anything with my stack so i wont loose my libido?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Conscript

ivan360 said:


> hi Hacks, the cycle im planning looks like this
> 
> 6 weeks cycle of 500mg sustanon
> 
> HCG 500ui 2x week during cycle
> 
> adex .5 2x week during cycle
> 
> then after 4 weeks from last jab i'll start my PCT with nolva 50 mg for 30 days and clomid 100mg for 21 days
> 
> does this look good?
> 
> is this suppressive enough to affect my sex drive? can i add anything with my stack so i wont loose my libido?
> 
> Thanks in advance


I'd would personally extend the cycle to at least 10 weeks, you will still be gaining at 6 weeks so might as well make the most of it and go a while longer. Just be sure to nail your diet.

Adex @0.5mg 2-3 times weekly - from start until you begin pct

hCG @1000iu once weekly - from week 3 until you start pct

I'd wait 4 weeks after last sus jab then PCT:

Clomid 100/50/50/50

Nolva 20/20/20/20

^ All mgs per day (/) per week.

Your sex drive should be through the roof mate so don't worry about that. :thumb:


----------



## ivan360

Conscript said:


> I'd would personally extend the cycle to at least 10 weeks, you will still be gaining at 6 weeks so might as well make the most of it and go a while longer. Just be sure to nail your diet.
> 
> Adex @0.5mg 2-3 times weekly - from start until you begin pct
> 
> hCG @1000iu once weekly - from week 3 until you start pct
> 
> I'd wait 4 weeks after last sus jab then PCT:
> 
> Clomid 100/50/50/50
> 
> Nolva 20/20/20/20
> 
> ^ All mgs per day (/) per week.
> 
> Your sex drive should be through the roof mate so don't worry about that. :thumb:


Thanks man! this will be my first time to try steroids that why im just planning a short cycle and im a little worried about the sides and recovery.

By the way what side effect should i expect? thanks again


----------



## Conscript

ivan360 said:


> Thanks man! this will be my first time to try steroids that why im just planning a short cycle and im a little worried about the sides and recovery.
> 
> By the way what side effect should i expect? thanks again


Well if you're taking hcg and adex then gyno, water bloat and testicular atrophy shouldn't be much concern. Both of which will aid towards pct and recovery.

Maybe acne, hair loss, increased blood pressure (celery root helps with hypertension apparently) and increased aggression might be effected, can't think of any more tbh.


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> hi Hacks, the cycle im planning looks like this
> 
> 6 weeks cycle of 500mg sustanon
> 
> HCG 500ui 2x week during cycle
> 
> adex .5 2x week during cycle
> 
> then after 4 weeks from last jab i'll start my PCT with nolva 50 mg for 30 days and clomid 100mg for 21 days
> 
> does this look good?
> 
> is this suppressive enough to affect my sex drive? can i add anything with my stack so i wont loose my libido?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Yah, thats fine, only problem is by the time the sust is going full steam ahead, your cycle will end.

Extending it is your choice obviously, 8 week cycles are not very supressive with testosterone, so 8 or even 10 week cycles are fine but you can keep it simple for recovery sake.

In fact if you keep the nuts rolling along, it is possible to do a 6 week cycle, keep the HCG in the mix till you start your SERMS and you can get away with 21 days @ 100mg clomid and 20mg nolva for 30 days no problem.


----------



## Vinney

@hackskii .... take a look at my cycle please mate (currently into week 4) *attached as a jpg.*

My questions regarding HCG and PCT .... am taking HCG throughout the cylce as you can see @ 1000UI PW and during my research i read it would be advisable to continue the HCG two weeks into PCT.

That said ... this will mean am on the HCG for a total of 14 weeks ...

*Do you think this is too long and cause desentization of the Leydig cells ??*

*Also ... will the Proviron am taking @ 50mg throughout the cycle inc PCT; during PCT will this hinder my HPTA recovery anyway?*

thank mate.


----------



## hackskii

Proviron is fine, HCG is fine.

I would suggest that you leave around 3 weeks of clomid from last jab of HCG, and about 4 weeks from last jab of HCG on the nolva.

I would run the clomid at the very least 100mg a day for 3 weeks, then you can drop it week four.


----------



## mal

ive read a bit about triptarelin restoring full hpta after 1 100mcg shot,have you

heard of this hack's,is it true!


----------



## hackskii

mal said:


> ive read a bit about triptarelin restoring full hpta after 1 100mcg shot,have you
> 
> heard of this hack's,is it true!


I just read some about that, it spikes first, then causes some shutdown.

I read it is for prostate guys to suppress LH for the prostate treatment.


----------



## Vinney

hackskii said:


> Proviron is fine, HCG is fine.
> 
> I would suggest that you leave around 3 weeks of clomid from last jab of HCG, and about 4 weeks from last jab of HCG on the nolva.
> 
> I would run the clomid at the very least 100mg a day for 3 weeks, then you can drop it week four.




so my pct would look something like this ??


----------



## hackskii

What is tauro test?

Look it like this.

You will need about 2 weeks after the clearance time of the HCG for the clomid to do its magic from what I see.

If the HCG is in the mix I doubt the clomid will influence the LH responce you need from the pituitary.

So if the HCG lasts about 5 to 7 days, then you need around 19 to 21 days after last jab of HCG.

I think that much clomid might give you some vision problems myself.

Could just wait 21 days from last jab of gear and continue one week into PCT and you would still get the same weeks of HCG to insure testicular function.


----------



## Vinney

hackskii said:


> What is tauro test?
> 
> Look it like this.
> 
> You will need about 2 weeks after the clearance time of the HCG for the clomid to do its magic from what I see.
> 
> If the HCG is in the mix I doubt the clomid will influence the LH responce you need from the pituitary.
> 
> So if the HCG lasts about 5 to 7 days, then you need around 19 to 21 days after last jab of HCG.
> 
> I think that much clomid might give you some vision problems myself.
> 
> Could just wait 21 days from last jab of gear and continue one week into PCT and you would still get the same weeks of HCG to insure testicular function.


You've confused me mate .... i think ....

So basically wait 21 days before i start clomid .... but in the mean time take nolva ??

Treat me like a 5 yr old .... ha ...

Based on my cycle above what would it look like then ?


----------



## hackskii

I meant wait another week to start your PCT and keep running the HCG at where you were.

So, week 1 into PCT you can keep the HCG in there, then you need about 2 weeks time after the HCG is out of your system to keep the clomid in there.

Run the nolva a bit longer than the clomid.


----------



## Dick_Richie

Hey Hackskii, long time lurker first time poster.

I'm starting my first 19-nor cycle in the next week, running for 7 weeks consisting of 400mg prop/300mg NPP p/w, pinned eod, 12.5mg aromasin ed, HCG E3D when nuts start to atrophy, with prami on hand.

Now I have some ROHM PCT caps which I was going to use for the first time, but wondering whether to run the 45 day Power PCT instead as it's my first time using a 19-nor, or would this be overkill for such a short cycle? My previous PCT'S have just been the usual 4 weeks clomid/nolva tapering down combo.

What PCT would you suggest for this cycle and how would you run the HCG?


----------



## hackskii

Short cycles with that little bit of gear probably would be fine with just HCG throughout.

As the gear is so fast in, I would run the HCG starting mid first week.

Run the HCG all the way through your cycle, even 3 days after and then start your PCT 3 days after.

You could run it about up to 10 days after and run the clomid for 3 weeks and nolva for a month.

500iu twice a week would be fine with the HCT, your recovery should be very easy.


----------



## Dick_Richie

Thank you for the response. Just to clear a couple of things up if you don't mind...

When you say run HCG throughout cycle and continue for 3 days after last AAS pin then start PCT 3 days after, do you mean start PCT 3 days after last pin of AAS, or start PCT 3 days after my last pin of HCG meaning it would be 6 days wait until I start PCT? I know the usual wait for prop ester to clear is about 3 days but thought you might have a different approach.

Also would you run the aromasin throughout PCT, or if not at what point would you stop taking it?

Thanks again


----------



## hackskii

You answered your own question mate.

3 days from last jab of AAS.

Aromasin is not necessary during PCT.

Driving estrogen too low does not aid in recovery, yet can compromise lipid profiles, and libido, and other things of less importance.


----------



## Jase24

Hi all, am Jason and am new to the site

Basicallymy first cycle ever on gear

Info

8weeks and ongoing to 12weeks.. on..

Tmp250 test propionate, masterone propionate , trenbolone proprionate,

First 6 weeks did 2 ml a week ( 2 jabs) then Got told I need to do 3 jabs a week so past 2 week done 3ml a week (3 jabs)

Was 15st 2lbs before cycle currently 15st 11lbs on week 8..

Currently having whey protein with this gear.

Now..

I no nothing about aftercare (shud of done reading before) so pleasebe patient with me sm learning

So what exacley do I need??? To take after. I want everything to be fine so hopefully I can be confident on what to take next time.

Ta jason


----------



## Jay Walker

Jase24 said:


> Hi all, am Jason and am new to the site
> 
> Basicallymy first cycle ever on gear
> 
> Info
> 
> 8weeks and ongoing to 12weeks.. on..
> 
> Tmp250 test propionate, masterone propionate , trenbolone proprionate,
> 
> First 6 weeks did 2 ml a week ( 2 jabs) then Got told I need to do 3 jabs a week so past 2 week done 3ml a week (3 jabs)
> 
> Was 15st 2lbs before cycle currently 15st 11lbs on week 8..
> 
> Currently having whey protein with this gear.
> 
> Now..
> 
> I no nothing about aftercare (shud of done reading before) so pleasebe patient with me sm learning
> 
> So what exacley do I need??? To take after. I want everything to be fine so hopefully I can be confident on what to take next time.
> 
> Ta jason


Read the sticky in this section, Doc's protocol thread. All you need to know in there.


----------



## Jase24

Rite I havnt read that yet just read this section according to this section a need hcg ad clomid or nolvadex but am unsure on what dose etc :/ if you can help


----------



## Jay Walker

Jase24 said:


> Rite I havnt read that yet just read this section according to this section a need hcg ad clomid or nolvadex but am unsure on what dose etc :/ if you can help


It's all on that thread, read up mate.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii, is it safe to combine the HCG and Sustanon in one syringe? Thanks man


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> hackskii, is it safe to combine the HCG and Sustanon in one syringe? Thanks man


Yah, you can but then again, one is oil, one is water, and they dont mix.

Sub-Q that, it is very easy.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> Yah, you can but then again, one is oil, one is water, and they dont mix.
> 
> Sub-Q that, it is very easy.


copy that. Thanks. will start this weekend


----------



## skaman007

hacksi...43 yrs old,,just ended a 16 week test e cycle at 500mg week.was running for 20 weeks but go a bug 2 wks ago aND HAVE LOST ALL MY 14LBS I PUT ON....its been 2 wks since my last jab....i have 10,000 ius hcg .nolva and clomid how shall i run it now?


----------



## hackskii

2000iu EOD x 5

Clomid 100mg ED for 30 days

20mg nolva ED for 45 days.

You may or may not recover, depends really on several factors.

20 week cycles can be pretty supressive.


----------



## trenboloni

A lab rat has been on a one year cycle of varying dosage and is now doing PCT. Has lost all libido and even seems to have lost a LOT of sensitivity in his private parts. Can have sex using 20mg Cialis but even then the loss of sensitivity is apparent.

PCT protocol for last 4 weeks:

1000 iu HCG EOD for 2 weeks, then 500iu HCG EOD for 2 weeks

Nolvadex 20mg, Proviron 50mg, Anavar 40mg (last testosterone enanthate injection was 4 weeks ago so system should be clear of endogenous hormones now)

Note: seems to be that estrogen was sometimes a bit high as 0,25mg Arimedex seemed to boost libido for 2-3 days after administration. Took A-dex at random intervals, 1-3 x 0,25mg doses weekly, especially during the 1000iu HCG EOD phase, less when at 500iu EOD.

Now stopped the above and started a PCT protocol yesterday:

100mg Clomid (first day 300mg frontload) for 30 days

20mg Nolvadex for 45 days

After the above 30-45 days of Clomid + Nolva assess situation and restart clomid for 21 days if needed?

I have about 2500iu of leftover HCG in a slin pin, should I pin it or scrap it? Have more unconstituted HCG if needed.

Please let me know what you think, the lab rat has now seen for himself why long cycles are bad  All help appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

Oh, that is easy, get a new rat they only are about 14 bucks at Pet Smart. :lol:

I just lost my rat, she was awesome.

OK, now back to the problem.

20,000iu HCG should be about enough.

the SERM protocol should be fine.

So, how long has it been from the last shot of gear?

What was the gear and amount?

How long after the shot did you start your SERMS?


----------



## kennethf

hey,

im about to start my first cycle in two weeks and have a few questions about my PCT

im running the old reliable 500 test e for 12 weeks with a 4 week d-bol at 30mg loader

my question is would i be ok with just using 100/50/50/50mg ed clomid for 4 weeks and 20/20/20/20mg of nolvadex ?

would i need to us a AI during the cycle and could anyone recommend a dosage of a AI in oral form?

would i be okay not to use HCG and just use the above pct with a AI duuring cycle?

thanks


----------



## hackskii

kennethf said:


> hey,
> 
> im about to start my first cycle in two weeks and have a few questions about my PCT
> 
> im running the old reliable 500 test e for 12 weeks with a 4 week d-bol at 30mg loader
> 
> my question is would i be ok with just using 100/50/50/50mg ed clomid for 4 weeks and 20/20/20/20mg of nolvadex ?
> 
> would i need to us a AI during the cycle and could anyone recommend a dosage of a AI in oral form?
> 
> would i be okay not to use HCG and just use the above pct with a AI duuring cycle?
> 
> thanks


Yah, you should be ok, but you would recover much faster with HCG in the mix.

500iu twice a week would be fine, and the couple two to three weeks till the gear clears using HCG.

AI @ .5mg adex twice a week is a good place to stert.

Me personally I would bump up the clomid to 100mg ED.


----------



## kennethf

thanks for the reply

if i can get away with just using adex .5mg during cycle and clomid/nolva for pct i think i will do it,

this will be my first injectable cycle and id love to just keep it simple and the thoughts of doing 3 injection per week instead of just 1 is freaking me out lol for my next cycle i will add HCG during the cycle

so to confirm my pct this will get me back on track post cycle?

clomid 100/100/100/100

nolva 20/20/20/20

adex .5mg ED during cycle (do i drop this at week 12 before pct?)

and when should i start pct after final jap or wait until everything has left my sytem?


----------



## hackskii

3 weeks after last jab you can start PCT.

Run the adex up to the start day of PCT.

The HCG is shot sub-Q and uses the smallest needle.


----------



## aarun

hackskii

i am 22 working out for past 5 years...

this is my second cycle

i am on a cycle with

week 1 to 12---eq----400mg/week

week 4 to 12---winny--100mg/week

week 6 to 12---deca---50mg/week(for joints)

Arimidex 0.5mg eod through out the cycle

this cycle may extend to 14 weeks not sure of my contest date so oly.....

OPTION 1:

after contest

(ie 21 days after last EQ and deca shot)

HCG

3000IUs/week for 3 weeks

after 4 days

PCT

1st week; clomid 200mg + Nolvadex 40mg

2nd and 3rd week; clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg

or

OPTION 2:

week 1-3........HCG 3000IUs/week with clomid 100mg ED + Nolvadex 20mg ED

week 4 and week 5......clomid 100mg ED + Nolvadex 20mg ED

week 6.....Nolvadex 20mg ED

in the above which option should i follow???

should i add Arimidex for HCG cycle also???

pls help!!!!!


----------



## hackskii

Could you run the HCG during the cycle?

I dont know how that would make or not you hold water, I am not too keen on contest preparations.

The most important thing for recovery is testicular function.

That would be an x amount of HCG regardless.

You would be using 9000iu of HCG total, that for me is not enough to do the job, but for you perhaps.


----------



## Jas

This post has been incredible, but i am a bit lost in it all. I'm planning my first ever cycle of 500mg of testosterone cypionate for 10 to 12 weeks. Please can you best advise me the PCT you suggest for my first cycle.


----------



## hackskii

Jas said:


> This post has been incredible, but i am a bit lost in it all. I'm planning my first ever cycle of 500mg of testosterone cypionate for 10 to 12 weeks. Please can you best advise me the PCT you suggest for my first cycle.


I would run HCG during the cycle at 500iu twice a week, and a mild AI at .5 adex twice a week.

Then clomid and nolva for PCT.


----------



## Jas

So I do PCT is for 4 weeks after my cycle. Do i take a break afterwards as well, or can i start a 2nd cycle once PCT is completed. Do you think its good to take a couple of weeks off, more time off, or no need, once PCT is completed.

What do you advise is the best approach.


----------



## Jay Walker

Jas said:


> So I do PCT is for 4 weeks after my cycle. Do i take a break afterwards as well, or can i start a 2nd cycle once PCT is completed. Do you think its good to take a couple of weeks off, more time off, or no need, once PCT is completed.
> 
> What do you advise is the best approach.


You need to take time off after PCT. PCT jumpstarts your production, but your body needs to recover afterwards, which takes time.

I made the mistake of not taking much time off, and Im having a slow recovery now.

You dont have to do this, but personal advice, give your body the time off it needs, and back it up with blood tests. Without them, its guess work.

Good luck.


----------



## hackskii

Some times off makes alot of sense, this will allow the body to return to homeostasis.


----------



## Jas

So i'll go with a 4 week break of taking nothing, once I have finished a 4 week PCT, post 12 week test cypionate cycle.


----------



## Jay Walker

Jas said:


> So i'll go with a 4 week break of taking nothing, once I have finished a 4 week PCT, post 12 week test cypionate cycle.


Get bloodwork done, then you will know if you are recovered or not.

I honestly dont think 4 weeks enough, but everyone is different.


----------



## lewism6

i must have read these threads a number of times but am still confused whether HCG, clomid and nolva are taken at the same time or do i run the HCG THEN start the SERMS?

so should i have done this:

day 1-16 HCG and nolva and tamoxifen

day 17 - 30 nolva and tamoxifen

day 30 - 45 nolva

or this:

day 1-16 HCG and nolva (nolva for gyno)

day 17 - 47 nolva and tamoxifen

day 48 - 63 nolva

thanks!


----------



## hackskii

Run them all together.


----------



## lewism6

Ah bugger I did it wrong then and ran hcg then started the serms 16 days later.

Would it have made much difference?

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

lewism6 said:


> Ah bugger I did it wrong then and ran hcg then started the serms 16 days later.
> 
> Would it have made much difference?
> 
> Thanks.


Nah, but HCG can cause gyno pretty easy, the SERMS are there to protect you from estrogenic sides, and save your balls from becoming desensitized.


----------



## lewism6

cheers hacksii.

great post by the way. i was struggling with what PCT to run as i had been on 6 months. read what felt like a million things then found your post. sorted.


----------



## Mr ziggle

Hi Hackskii

What do you recommend vitamin wise.

Vit e - 1000iu ?

Vit d- ???

Vit c - 3000mg ?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## hackskii

E is fine, you can figure out the D dosage here: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind/DSECTION=dosing

Very controversial on the D, id suggest enough to not be deficient.


----------



## beefjerky

As a second PCT to revive from semi-shutdown years after a SD cycle, should I follow the outlined PCT here, at halfdose i.e. [email protected] eod?

Also, is there any reason to not taper down?

Lastly, thoughts on cabergoline in PCT?


----------



## hackskii

beefjerky said:


> As a second PCT to revive from semi-shutdown years after a SD cycle, should I follow the outlined PCT here, at halfdose i.e. [email protected] eod?
> 
> Also, is there any reason to not taper down?
> 
> Lastly, thoughts on cabergoline in PCT?


Do you have blood work to varify shutdown?

Its been years?


----------



## Horsfall

quick question, when people say they are doing PCT, say for example Nolva 20/20/10/10 does that mean for the first week 20mg per day everyday for the first 2 weeks? then 10mg per day everyday for the next 2 weeks?


----------



## Jay Walker

Horsfall said:


> quick question, when people say they are doing PCT, say for example Nolva 20/20/10/10 does that mean for the first week 20mg per day everyday for the first 2 weeks? then 10mg per day everyday for the next 2 weeks?


Yes.


----------



## Horsfall

thanks for that Jay Walker


----------



## mr_unknown2009

thanks for the info!


----------



## Jonsey911

not new to aas atall but still very good read now im part of the ukm community :rockon:


----------



## BigTonle

very good read A+ i will recommend people to this !!


----------



## elstenso

Very good thread! Helped me alot. Been Suffering from depression and anxiety for some months now, its been 5 months since my last cycle. Got bloodwork done a day ago. If it comes back that I am shut down Im starting PCT ( never did any..). Hoping you could look it over hackskii


----------



## hackskii

Thats fine.


----------



## elstenso

Thanx, did a thread about it last week:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/161426-please-help-cant-last.html


----------



## hackskii

elstenso said:


> Thanx, did a thread about it last week:
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/161426-please-help-cant-last.html


Did a post on this today:lol:


----------



## dawun

Please review my cycle and pct, it is very important because I'm starting on monday.Thanks in advance

I'll use Liv.52 and all the standard supplements with additional vitamin c,omega3,cla..

1-10 Sust 2x250mg

1-4 Dbol 30/40mg

7-10 Winny tabs 30/40 mg

11-12 Propi 3x100mg

11-12 Winny inj. 3x50mg

13 Just winny 100mg

On cycle i use Nolva and Proviron from week 3 and later from week 7-8 Letro or Adex.

PCT: Clomid and Nolva

Clomid: 1-4 day 1: 300mg, day 2:200 day 3:100..

Nolva : 1-4 20/20/20/10

Thanks again


----------



## dawun

the pct ok, gtg?


----------



## dawun

1-10 Sust 2x250mg

1-4 Dbol 30/40mg

7-10 Winny tabs 30/40 mg

11-12 Propi 3x100mg

11-12 Winny inj. 3x50mg

13 Just winny 100mg

On cycle i use Nolva and Proviron from week 3 and later from week 7-8 Letro or Adex.

PCT: Clomid and Nolva, starting after the last winny jab

Clomid: 1-4 day 1: 300mg, day 2:200 day 3:100..

Nolva : 1-4 20/20/20/10

I need HCG on this cycle or not? Or enough the clomid and nolva. If I need HCG, when i need it how much, while on cycle or after the cycle? Week 5, 2x500 or 1000 IU and week 10, 2x500 or 1000IU or after the cycle on PCT.


----------



## hackskii

HCG @ 500iu twice a week.

Adex throughout up to start day of PCT.

Then drop the adex and use clomid at 100mg ED for 3 weeks

nolva @ 20mg for 4 weeks.


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> HCG @ 500iu twice a week.
> 
> Adex throughout up to start day of PCT.
> 
> Then drop the adex and use clomid at 100mg ED for 3 weeks
> 
> nolva @ 20mg for 4 weeks.


Ok, Thank you very much hackskii

But the HCG @ 500iu twice a week, on which weeks? On week 5 and week 10, 2x500iu or from week 4 or 5 to 10 2x500iu? And how to store the HCG, when 5000iu amps are available.


----------



## hackskii

Store it in the fridge and mix with bacteriostatic water, it should last about a month or so, maybe even up to 6 weeks.

HCG can be started like week 2 or so.


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> Store it in the fridge and mix with bacteriostatic water, it should last about a month or so, maybe even up to 6 weeks.
> 
> HCG can be started like week 2 or so.


very gratefully thank you hackskii, this helped a lot


----------



## dawun

hackskii

But maybe if I do not use the hcg? I will use Proviron, Nolva (if needed), Adex while on the cycle, and Clomid and Nolva PCT. Good that?


----------



## dawun

Is the HCG needed in every cycle, or where deca is included in the cycle?


----------



## dalziel

excellent reading there, if i want to run 50mg nap ed, 300mg deca ew and 900mg test ew what pct would you reccomend, bearing in mind i have been prone to the dreaded deca dick in the past


----------



## hackskii

This thread was to help to understand PCT.

I didnt put up the thread to answer every question about how and what to use PCT with which drugs or length of cycles.

All cases with the use of gear are very individual.

I will say, if you keep and maintain testicular function during cycle, recovery is much easier.


----------



## dalziel

ok sorry i asked i was just looking for someone elses opinion and guidance who has alot more experience on the matter not to worry il ask else where....


----------



## hackskii

dalziel said:


> ok sorry i asked i was just looking for someone elses opinion and guidance who has alot more experience on the matter not to worry il ask else where....


Well, no problems, I dont mind helping but you can invite me to your thread, or I will find it and chime in.

Many factors though.


----------



## MMA Warrior

awesome post straight to the point and easy to understand


----------



## Benny Blanco

Hey Scott/Hackskii I have a couple questions just to clarify things exactly, first I'll give u a bit of info, I'm 28 I've done a 8 week cycle of Dianabol, and a 10 week cycle of Omnadren (Jelf) 1 amp every 5 days for 10 weeks. That was about 3 years ago. Anyway, I'm looking to do my "third" cycle of Equipoise 200mg and Sustanon 250 for 12-14 weeks with about 20mg of Dianabol for the first 4 weeks or so. I was thinking about 500mg a week of each the Equi and the Sus.

1) Is it true I need to use more Equi than Test? And if so how come and how much should I use.

2) Should I shoot the Test a week longer than the Equi as I think the Equi takes a week longer to ger out?

3) What is the best way to shoot this? Can I do 2ml of each into each butt cheek on the same day each week? Or will I have to use my thigh also etc?

4) What will I need for PCT? And when should I start it 3 weeks after last shot?

5) What is a smaller but sufficient amount of HCG to use?

6) How long after my last shot (or end of PCT) do I have to wait to start my next cycle?

7) About how many grams of protein a day should I be consuming when I am cycling, I normally eat about 200-250 when not on steroids.

8) What is the best thing to have on hand just in case any signs or symptoms of gyno starts to show, and if that happens how much and what to take?

Thank you for your help!


----------



## hackskii

Benny Blanco said:


> Hey Scott/Hackskii I have a couple questions just to clarify things exactly, first I'll give u a bit of info, I'm 28 I've done a 8 week cycle of Dianabol, and a 10 week cycle of Omnadren (Jelf) 1 amp every 5 days for 10 weeks. That was about 3 years ago. Anyway, I'm looking to do my "third" cycle of Equipoise 200mg and Sustanon 250 for 12-14 weeks with about 20mg of Dianabol for the first 4 weeks or so. I was thinking about 500mg a week of each the Equi and the Sus.
> 
> 1) Is it true I need to use more Equi than Test? And if so how come and how much should I use.
> 
> 2) Should I shoot the Test a week longer than the Equi as I think the Equi takes a week longer to ger out?
> 
> 3) What is the best way to shoot this? Can I do 2ml of each into each butt cheek on the same day each week? Or will I have to use my thigh also etc?
> 
> 4) What will I need for PCT? And when should I start it 3 weeks after last shot?
> 
> 5) What is a smaller but sufficient amount of HCG to use?
> 
> 6) How long after my last shot (or end of PCT) do I have to wait to start my next cycle?
> 
> 7) About how many grams of protein a day should I be consuming when I am cycling, I normally eat about 200-250 when not on steroids.
> 
> 8) What is the best thing to have on hand just in case any signs or symptoms of gyno starts to show, and if that happens how much and what to take?
> 
> Thank you for your help!


Lots of questions for a PCT sticky...

I would suggest you do some reading first, then ask the questions, every one of them have already been posted on this forum already.


----------



## JK1

Hi Hackskii (and all contributors)

First off, your help and insight is invaluable on this board and the time you take to offer an informed insight is very much appreciated.

I would like to run past my current situation (simple cycle) with you and it would be great if you could give me your 2 cents worth given that I am/have reassessed my PCT/HCG plan.

Test E 500mg/week

I have just finished my third shot of test e 500mg/week (first ever cycle)

My thoughts: Having only just completed two weeks I have seen much more weight gain (5-6kg) than I expected (I am 28yo and I have been training for quite a few years) given this and the fact I can feel my heart/CV system struggling a bit with what I assume is the rapid weight I might cut the cycle to 8-10 weeks). Any thoughts?

Arimidex

I am running Arimidex at 0.5mg EOD. How long in your opinion should I run this? Until the end of the 2/3 weeks after last test e shot. Or right through PCT with Nolva and Clomid also?

HCG (there's SO more recommendations/theories out there!)

Original Plan was to shoot HCG in the two/three weeks between last test and PCT. I have 5000IU, 20ml Sodium Chloride and 10ml mixing vial (ordered BAC but got NaCl!). So I have enough for 10 x 500iu/ml shots at the moment (depending on the mix). I will be buying BAC soon (given my NaCL is not BAC there's a 'use-by' issue here!)

However, reading over other discussions here and Hackskii's recommendation on a similar cycle to mines I am considering running HCG during cycle. One quote was: '500iu twice a week would be fine, and the couple two to three weeks till the gear clears using HCG'

First is there any implication on me starting this in week 3/4 of my test e cycle (likely wk4)

And so does this mean:

500iu x 2 per week (ie Mon morn and Thur night) throughout cycle AND in the 2/3 post last pin? OR something different?

HCG aggravated Gyno: I know of this occurring reasonably often and if it does occur then it'll be nolva until it subsides.

Time, post last injection to start of PCT

I am right in assuming that 3 weeks would be better here rather than 2?

PCT - comments welcome:

Nolva 40/40/20/20 ed

Clomid (not yet obtained as was initially put off with potential side-effects but I am now wanting to include)

100/100/100/100 ed (based on Hackskii quote: 'Me personally I would bump up the clomid to 100mg ED.'

Lastly, if need to pull out early, how would I treat my HCG and PCT.

Thanks all for any input whatsoever. Very much appreciated.

J


----------



## JK1

Having just read a post on an injection gone wrong and given it much consideration about UGLs etc, I am going to come off my cycle.

So, any advice in doing my PCT after 3 x 500mg test e /week. Assuming it will look similar to regular PCT.

Thanks guys.


----------



## m575

i personally wouldnt bother doing one if it was me.


----------



## hackskii

As said, a few weeks on wont do much for shutdown.

Run the AI now till about week 2 post jab, then cut it in half week 3, then cut it in half again week 4.

Tapering will be a good idea for estrogen rebounding, plus AI's tend to bump LH anyway so no big deal.


----------



## JK1

hackskii said:


> As said, a few weeks on wont do much for shutdown.
> 
> Run the AI now till about week 2 post jab, then cut it in half week 3, then cut it in half again week 4.
> 
> Tapering will be a good idea for estrogen rebounding, plus AI's tend to bump LH anyway so no big deal.


Thanks Hackskii

So, I run Arimidex 0.5 EOD for 2 weeks from last jab, then 0.25mg EOD for a week and then 0.12mg for last week.

The Arimidex I have is 1mg tabs, from nothing more than my own observation, a 0.25 and half this again is such a small physical amount, although I know it is said to have efficacy at low doses.

Thanks again for he help.


----------



## jim2509

Just finished my Pro Chem DBOL Cycle 5 week, how does the following PCT sound cheers?

Week 1-3

Clomid 100/50/50

Nolvadex 40/20/20

Week 4 DAA


----------



## ivan360

hey hackskii, just want to say thanks to your advice on my PCT for my sustanon cycle. did'nt experience any sides at all.

Im thinking of trying a 6 week dbol cycle any advice on PCT for this one? thanks


----------



## Benny Blanco

Dbol by itself?


----------



## ivan360

Benny Blanco said:


> Dbol by itself?


yup. planning on using it to kick off my susta cycle again


----------



## Benny Blanco

So u are starting the Dbol the same day u do your first jab? Cause it sounded like u were going to do a 6 week Dbol cycle, then PCT, then start a Sus cycle? You would definitly be much better off doing them together, rather than a Dbol cycle, then PCT, then Sus by itself... (If that's what u meant...)


----------



## ivan360

Benny Blanco said:


> So u are starting the Dbol the same day u do your first jab? Cause it sounded like u were going to do a 6 week Dbol cycle, then PCT, then start a Sus cycle? You would definitly be much better off doing them together, rather than a Dbol cycle, then PCT, then Sus by itself... (If that's what u meant...)


its actually the second one. the plan is dbol then pct then sus the pct. is this a bad cycle? im planning on starting my sust cycle on september i just really would like to try dbol coz i've never tried it


----------



## Benny Blanco

Dbol is great for strength etc, but on its on its gains arent all that "permanent", and almost everyone will tell u not to bother doing it alone. My first cycle was Dbol on its own for 8 weeks. It was ok but would of been a lot better with injections of test and a longer cycle (with a shorter cycle of Dbol, and then just the injections on its own). But when used with Sus (or a number of other steroids) it is great for kick starting the cycle, so u have strength right from the beginning of the cycle, the Dbol and Prop in the Sus will get u going till the other esters in the Sus kick in. Ye its honestly never really worth doing an oral like Dbol on its own, always use it starting the day of your first jab of test. Most people run it 4-6 weeks, with 30-60mg a day. On a non work out day I like to take it in 2 doses, on a work out day I take it all at once (usually) about an hour and a half before I work out.


----------



## hackskii

jim2509 said:


> Just finished my Pro Chem DBOL Cycle 5 week, how does the following PCT sound cheers?
> 
> Week 1-3
> 
> Clomid 100/50/50
> 
> Nolvadex 40/20/20
> 
> Week 4 DAA


That is fine, 5 week cycles are not very supressive, you can lower the nolva to 20 or even do the clomid by itself.



ivan360 said:


> hey hackskii, just want to say thanks to your advice on my PCT for my sustanon cycle. did'nt experience any sides at all.
> 
> Im thinking of trying a 6 week dbol cycle any advice on PCT for this one? thanks


As above, you probably would be fine with just clomid, but if you want then both, I like both best myself.

I would probably do 3 weeks 100mg clomid and be done with it.


----------



## jim2509

Much Obliged.



hackskii said:


> That is fine, 5 week cycles are not very supressive, you can lower the nolva to 20 or even do the clomid by itself.
> 
> As above, you probably would be fine with just clomid, but if you want then both, I like both best myself.
> 
> I would probably do 3 weeks 100mg clomid and be done with it.


----------



## B3NNY

Just started my first cycle of pro chem tri test 400

My cycle just consists off 700mg pw

I've been told to start my pct 1 week after my last jab and continue for 2 weeks

Hcg 500ui twice a week starting on week 2 of cycle?

Pct consists of Nolvex and clomid, if this is advised what dose,s should I be taking? From what I've read I thought I should be starting pct 2 weeks after last jab and running as follows..

Clomid 100/50/50/50

Nolvex 40/20/20/20

Your thoughts please


----------



## hackskii

B3NNY said:


> Just started my first cycle of pro chem tri test 400
> 
> My cycle just consists off 700mg pw
> 
> I've been told to start my pct 1 week after my last jab and continue for 2 weeks
> 
> Hcg 500ui twice a week starting on week 2 of cycle?
> 
> Pct consists of Nolvex and clomid, if this is advised what dose,s should I be taking? From what I've read I thought I should be starting pct 2 weeks after last jab and running as follows..
> 
> Clomid 100/50/50/50
> 
> Nolvex 40/20/20/20
> 
> Your thoughts please


Problem is starting PCT 1 week after jabbing wont clear for weeks time.

Not sure of the blend of esters used in the gear but if they are any long ones in there 750 could take 3 weeks or longer to clear depending.

When exogenous androgens are well over normal values, all the SERMS in the world at any dose will not return HPTA.

Your friend said wait a week, take the SERMS for 2 weeks.

By the time you were done with your PCT, your testosterone levels could very well still be above base values.

In light of that, recovery would not even be possible.

I also like using more clomid than that myself.


----------



## expletive

Hi Hackskii PCTT400 has enth, cyp and decanonate in the blend


----------



## hackskii

expletive said:


> Hi Hackskii PCTT400 has enth, cyp and decanonate in the blend


How much deconate?

See, this is a very long ester, depending on how much is shot, it could be in one's system for a long time.

Again, worth repeating.

You do long estered gear, do not allow for clearance time, take SERMS=FAIL.

In the end you are asking something to do something, tho it can't.

Pointless.

With the exception of HCG.

Testicular function is paramount for recovery, limit this, you limit recovery.

Nothing in my mind could be simpler than that.

I am gonna hammer my liver now.... :lol:


----------



## ivan360

Benny Blanco said:


> Dbol is great for strength etc, but on its on its gains arent all that "permanent", and almost everyone will tell u not to bother doing it alone. My first cycle was Dbol on its own for 8 weeks. It was ok but would of been a lot better with injections of test and a longer cycle (with a shorter cycle of Dbol, and then just the injections on its own). But when used with Sus (or a number of other steroids) it is great for kick starting the cycle, so u have strength right from the beginning of the cycle, the Dbol and Prop in the Sus will get u going till the other esters in the Sus kick in. Ye its honestly never really worth doing an oral like Dbol on its own, always use it starting the day of your first jab of test. Most people run it 4-6 weeks, with 30-60mg a day. On a non work out day I like to take it in 2 doses, on a work out day I take it all at once (usually) about an hour and a half before I work out.


im actually just looking for a quick gain coz i'll be going to a wedding this June and I want to make an impression you know like how "The Rock or Triple H" looks in a suit. If the dbol works well with me i'll definite add it to my sustanon cycle this Sept. Thanks for the advice man


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> That is fine, 5 week cycles are not very supressive, you can lower the nolva to 20 or even do the clomid by itself.
> 
> As above, you probably would be fine with just clomid, but if you want then both, I like both best myself.
> 
> I would probably do 3 weeks 100mg clomid and be done with it.


Hi Hackskii, how long should I wait to start PCT after a 6 week cycle of dbol? should i run HCG and adex during cycle?


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> Hi Hackskii, how long should I wait to start PCT after a 6 week cycle of dbol? should i run HCG and adex during cycle?


Next day, or same day really, wont make much difference.

I would run both HCG to keep natty levels up, and an AI as dbol aromitizes, as well as HCG.


----------



## Ginger Ben

Hi Hackskii,

Just wanted to run this one past you if you don't mind. Been on a cycle of Pro Chem Tri Test 400 for 6 weeks now, going to run it up to the 20th April which makes it a 13 week cycle at 800mg a week. Did a dbol kick start for 4 weeks but that probably isn't massively relevent. This is my first cycle, which may be relevent.

I have been using 0.5mg adex eod from week 4 and so far so good. On the 21st April I go on honeymoon for two weeks (to sunny CA as it happens!) and was planning to take a last shot of test the week before I leave then have two weeks on holiday and come back and start a PCT.

My plan as I haven't used HCG throughout the cycle (no reason,just didn't) was to shoot 1000iu HCG a week for the last 4 weeks of the cycle (could start sooner if you recommend), go away for two weeks and take adex with me, then when I get back drop the adex and run clomid and nolva for 4 weeks at

Nolva - 20/20/20/20

Clomid - 100/100/50/50

Does that look close to sensible??

Thanks in advance!


----------



## hackskii

Ginger Ben said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> Just wanted to run this one past you if you don't mind. Been on a cycle of Pro Chem Tri Test 400 for 6 weeks now, going to run it up to the 20th April which makes it a 13 week cycle at 800mg a week. Did a dbol kick start for 4 weeks but that probably isn't massively relevent. This is my first cycle, which may be relevent.
> 
> I have been using 0.5mg adex eod from week 4 and so far so good. On the 21st April I go on honeymoon for two weeks (to sunny CA as it happens!) and was planning to take a last shot of test the week before I leave then have two weeks on holiday and come back and start a PCT.
> 
> My plan as I haven't used HCG throughout the cycle (no reason,just didn't) was to shoot 1000iu HCG a week for the last 4 weeks of the cycle (could start sooner if you recommend), go away for two weeks and take adex with me, then when I get back drop the adex and run clomid and nolva for 4 weeks at
> 
> Nolva - 20/20/20/20
> 
> Clomid - 100/100/50/50
> 
> Does that look close to sensible??
> 
> Thanks in advance!


It would not hurt to run the HCG now, if you do not you will need bigger doses later.

13 week cycles for the most part are not tame, longer the cycle, more inhibition.

Where in Cal are you going?


----------



## Ginger Ben

hackskii said:


> It would not hurt to run the HCG now, if you do not you will need bigger doses later.
> 
> 13 week cycles for the most part are not tame, longer the cycle, more inhibition.
> 
> Where in Cal are you going?


Ok will get on that ASAP. Thanks hacks.

Flying in to LA for a week in Malibu then off to Lake Tahoe for a week via Vegas for a couple of days. Can't wait!


----------



## hackskii

Malibu, Tahoe, and Vegas are all nice places.

If you can, get a car and go up in the Malibu mountains, and go to a place called "The Rock Store". http://www.rock-store.com/

You can watch the motorcycles race up and down the mountain, it is totally beautiful too.

If you go on the weekend it will look like this:


----------



## Ginger Ben

hackskii said:


> Malibu, Tahoe, and Vegas are all nice places.
> 
> If you can, get a car and go up in the Malibu mountains, and go to a place called "The Rock Store". http://www.rock-store.com/
> 
> You can watch the motorcycles race up and down the mountain, it is totally beautiful too.
> 
> If you go on the weekend it will look like this:
> View attachment 76736


Nice! That looks awesome. Will definitely have a car while there so will check it out. Thanks again hacks


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> Next day, or same day really, wont make much difference.
> 
> I would run both HCG to keep natty levels up, and an AI as dbol aromitizes, as well as HCG.


sorry i didn't quite get that=) did you mean i can start the pct after my last dbol or should i take the dbol, ai, hcg and clomid all at the same time? thanks


----------



## Benny Blanco

Because of Dbol having such a short half life, u can start your PCT the day after your last Dbol...


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

Hi there iv just been reading ur pct post and have found it very usefull. I was wondering wat cycle u would sugest and pct for me im 21, 5'9, 11 stone, 11% bf, i have done test tren deca and anadrol before but didnt do the pct right so lost all the weight! I have anadrol, test, tren at hand and can get hcg nolvadex clomid etc.

Any advice would be very helpfull!

Iv just had a baby and want to try for another one in a year would i be ok to do a cycle in a few weeks?

Thanks alot


----------



## ivan360

Benny Blanco said:


> Because of Dbol having such a short half life, u can start your PCT the day after your last Dbol...


Thanks Benny. Any advice on how much dbol i should take for a 6 week cycle?


----------



## Benny Blanco

Usually its somewhere around 30-60mg a day. I personally wouldn't go under 40mg and not over 60mg. I usually take 40mg split into 20mg doses on a non-workout day, and on a work out day either 40mg all at once about 2 hours before a work out or 20mg in the morning and 30mg 2 hours before a work out (50mg). If I was just going to do a shorter workout Im more likely to take slightly less than if Im really going to go hard. When I was working a physically hard job (heavy steel work) I would always split doses, and take a higher dose cause it would give me a lot of energy and strength at work. Everyone has their own preference but thats usually how i like to do it... Also if u are doing a oral cycle more than a few weeks I would reccommend taking Milk Thistle or Liv 52 or something along those lines. I use milk Thistle about 1700mg a day. I get mine from Holland and Barratt when they do a half price or 2 for 1 sale. For a Dbol only cycle I would go 60mg a day.


----------



## hackskii

Hell, I get great strength gains at 20mg ED split dose.

I do notice some elevations in blood pressure even with that.

I never went over 30mg myself, didn't see the need to as strength was going up damn fast.


----------



## BigTrev

Please can anyone here make it clear the best way for me to pct.Im going to start a cycle of deca 2ml weekly and andropin 2ml weekly.I was told to get nolvadex.Should i get proviron or clomid also.Some say i should get just nolva and others say get nolva and proviron.Im kinda lost here whats the best action and want to do it it proper.Any help at all would be great as my head is confused here,,,,lol.

Many thanks Trev


----------



## ivan360

Benny Blanco said:


> Usually its somewhere around 30-60mg a day. I personally wouldn't go under 40mg and not over 60mg. I usually take 40mg split into 20mg doses on a non-workout day, and on a work out day either 40mg all at once about 2 hours before a work out or 20mg in the morning and 30mg 2 hours before a work out (50mg). If I was just going to do a shorter workout Im more likely to take slightly less than if Im really going to go hard. When I was working a physically hard job (heavy steel work) I would always split doses, and take a higher dose cause it would give me a lot of energy and strength at work. Everyone has their own preference but thats usually how i like to do it... Also if u are doing a oral cycle more than a few weeks I would reccommend taking Milk Thistle or Liv 52 or something along those lines. I use milk Thistle about 1700mg a day. I get mine from Holland and Barratt when they do a half price or 2 for 1 sale. For a Dbol only cycle I would go 60mg a day.


Thanks Benny you've been a great help. I'll start my dbol cycle this april since i have to dodge my company annual physical exam haha. but if the dbol works well with me i'll definetely add to my sustanon cycle on september. Thanks again man and thanks also Hackskii


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

would this work well as pct?

Cycle

week 1-10 500mg test-e

OCT

week 1-10 500 i.u hcg twice weekly

week 1-10 10mg aromasin ED

PCT

Day 1-16 1000 i.u EOD

week 1-3 20mg aromasin ED

week 1-3 100mg clomid ED

week 4 50mg clomid ED

week 4 10mg aromasin ED

Basically below is how the cycle would look like in detail.

Sunday 10mg Aromasin

Monday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG

Tuesday 10mg Aromasin/250mg Enanthate

Wednesday 10mg Aromasin

Thursday 10mg Aromasin

Friday 10mg Aromasin/500iu HCG

Saturday 10mg Aromasin/250mg Enanthate

PCT

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG eod.)

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily

iv got this cycle from an article on another forum http://thinksteroids.com/forum/steroid-forum/first-cycle-pct-article-134306536.html


----------



## hackskii

Something looks wrong with the numbers.

If you run HCG during, you wont need that much at the end of the cycle.

Through clearance time of the gear ok, but you wont need to do an aggressive PCT with HCG in it.

3 weeks clomid at 100mg would be fine, 4 weeks nolva @ 20 would be fine with the clomid.


----------



## daz89uk

real or fake please help


----------



## daz89uk

please help anyone


----------



## garethmcl

During the cycle 1000iu eod?


----------



## hackskii

daz89uk said:


> please help anyone


This probably is the wrong place to ask that question, I suggest that the steroid section would be better by a post on its own.

This is a sticky to understand PCT.

I have never seen those before but then again I am in the States and buy mine out of Mexico.


----------



## biglbs

hackskii said:


> This probably is the wrong place to ask that question, I suggest that the steroid section would be better by a post on its own.
> 
> This is a sticky to understand PCT.
> 
> I have never seen those before but then again I am in the States and buy mine out of Mexico.


Evening Hacks!At least some good comes from mexico a?


----------



## hackskii

biglbs said:


> Evening Hacks!At least some good comes from mexico a?


Yah, but not the gear:lol:

I got some stuff that looked very nice, 50mg prop, and 200 enanthate.

I used my credit card and bought loads of amps.

It was like shooting fire.

Just one shot in the glute incapacitated my ass.

Literally too much to use, worst PIP in the world.

I threw it out as I could not deal with it.

I got creative and shot half ml in the delts, could not use my arms.


----------



## Conscript

hackskii said:


> Yah, but not the gear:lol:
> 
> I got some stuff that looked very nice, 50mg prop, and 200 enanthate.
> 
> I used my credit card and bought loads of amps.
> 
> It was like shooting fire.
> 
> *Just one shot in the glute incapacitated my ass.*
> 
> *
> Literally too much to use, worst PIP in the world.*
> 
> *
> I threw it out as I could not deal with it.*
> 
> I got creative and shot half ml in the delts, could not use my arms.


I had same problem with efp/veyron ugl back in 2008, wouldn't use that lab again if offered a salary per jab


----------



## daz89uk

are these real or fake many thanks:thumb:


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

thanks for the reply!

so basically your saying this is better:

Cycle

week 1-10 500mg test-e

OCT

week 1-10 500 i.u hcg twice weekly

week 1-10 10mg aromasin ED

PCT

week 11-14 clomid 50mg ED

week 11-15 nolva 20mg ED

Is there any benefits from taking clomid and nova together? from what i have read they basically do the same thing?

Thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

thanks for the reply!

so basically your saying this is better:

Cycle

week 1-10 500mg test-e

OCT

week 1-10 500 i.u hcg twice weekly

week 1-10 10mg aromasin ED

PCT

week 11-14 clomid 100mg ED

week 11-15 nolva 20mg ED

Is there any benefits from taking clomid and nova together? from what i have read they basically do the same thing?

One more thing if i changed the cycle from 10 weeks to 15 weeks would i need to change anything, also if i put anadrol at 50mg/day for first 4 weeks?

Thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## hardstylehead

Hey, are you able to help me with my PCT please? im on week 4 of a tri-tren (400 pw) and supertest (350 pw) cycle. Feeling great at the moment an made some good gains allready. just want to get my PCT in order so i can keep what Ive gained. Im im the process of sorting some HCG out and going to get some nolva and clomid ordered ASAP. how much nolva and clomid would you recommend i take for an effective PCT? thanks in adavance


----------



## hackskii

On-A-Hype-Ting said:


> thanks for the reply!
> 
> so basically your saying this is better:
> 
> Cycle
> 
> week 1-10 500mg test-e
> 
> OCT
> 
> week 1-10 500 i.u hcg twice weekly
> 
> week 1-10 10mg aromasin ED
> 
> PCT
> 
> week 11-14 clomid 100mg ED
> 
> week 11-15 nolva 20mg ED
> 
> Is there any benefits from taking clomid and nova together? from what i have read they basically do the same thing?
> 
> One more thing if i changed the cycle from 10 weeks to 15 weeks would i need to change anything, also if i put anadrol at 50mg/day for first 4 weeks?
> 
> Thanks a lot for your help!


Start your PCT 3 weeks from last jab.



hardstylehead said:


> Hey, are you able to help me with my PCT please? im on week 4 of a tri-tren (400 pw) and supertest (350 pw) cycle. Feeling great at the moment an made some good gains allready. just want to get my PCT in order so i can keep what Ive gained. Im im the process of sorting some HCG out and going to get some nolva and clomid ordered ASAP. how much nolva and clomid would you recommend i take for an effective PCT? thanks in adavance


Depends on how bad your testicular atrophy is and how long you are going to run your cycle.

I think you probably should have bought all your goodies before starting your cycle instead of trying to rally up the tools after the fact.


----------



## hardstylehead

hackskii said:


> Start your PCT 3 weeks from last jab.
> 
> Depends on how bad your testicular atrophy is and how long you are going to run your cycle.
> 
> I think you probably should have bought all your goodies before starting your cycle instead of trying to rally up the tools after the fact.


Yeah i know i shud have got everythin from the start but if i order it now it shud b here in time for my pct, Im planning running on running it for 10 weeks, not too sure how bad the atrophy is gunna b by then, its ok at the moment but still early days


----------



## On-A-Hype-Ting

Cycle

week 1-4 50mg anadrol ED

week 1-12 500mg test-e

OCT

week 1-12 500 i.u hcg twice weekly

week 1-12 10mg aromasin ED

PCT

week 15-18 clomid 100mg ED

week 15-19 nolvadex 20mg ED

sorry to keep changing the cycle but this is what i have decided to go with as i thought maybe 15 weeks was a bit too long for me.

does this look good to go ahead with?

If you think its good enough to go with i will keep you updated with all gains, sides, strength, blood results etc

thanks again you have been a massive help


----------



## superdan

Morning all. My cycle is due to end in about 3 weeks I have the tool for my pct but could some give it a quick look.

Cycle.

Eq 300. 1/2ml t/w week 1-6

Sust 250. 1ml t/w week 1-12

Tri-tren 150. 1/2 ml t/w 1-6, then week 6-10 1ml t/w.

Pct 2 weeks after last jab.

Clomid 100/50/50/50

Novl. 20/20/20/20

Would this be sufficient.

Read some where arimidex works well. I still have time to invest in arimidex if so on week 7.

Thanks for any advise


----------



## Jay Walker

superdan said:


> Morning all. My cycle is due to end in about 3 weeks I have the tool for my pct but could some give it a quick look.
> 
> Cycle.
> 
> Eq 300. 1/2ml t/w week 1-6
> 
> Sust 250. 1ml t/w week 1-12
> 
> Tri-tren 150. 1/2 ml t/w 1-6, then week 6-10 1ml t/w.
> 
> Pct 2 weeks after last jab.
> 
> Clomid 100/50/50/50
> 
> Novl. 20/20/20/20
> 
> Would this be sufficient.
> 
> Read some where arimidex works well. I still have time to invest in arimidex if so on week 7.
> 
> Thanks for any advise


I'd give it 4 weeks, Sust wont have cleared after 2 weeks.


----------



## hackskii

3 weeks would be enough time.


----------



## superdan

hackskii said:


> 3 weeks would be enough time.


Does the pct sound good enuf

Thanks for the reply


----------



## hackskii

superdan said:


> Does the pct sound good enuf
> 
> Thanks for the reply


If testicular function is maintained (enough HCG during).


----------



## superdan

hackskii said:


> If testicular function is maintained (enough HCG during).


No hcg used during.....


----------



## hackskii

Well, I would use a bit more clomid than that, but that probably would work.

I do think it is a good idea low dose HCG during the cycle.


----------



## superdan

hackskii said:


> Well, I would use a bit more clomid than that, but that probably would work.
> 
> I do think it is a good idea low dose HCG during the cycle.


Already planning next cycle so I will defo use hcg. Hopefully nearer the time I can run it by u. Ur input would be greatly received.

Would 150/100/50/50 be about right.

Thanks again hackskii.


----------



## hackskii

I would run the clomid for 3 weeks at 100mg myself.


----------



## RedEye.

Guys can you tell me What is appropriate to take with Oxymetholone, please? I would appreciate if you write cycle and pct as well. So I am planning to take Oxymetholone 1 tablet( 50mg) in a day and do not want to increase dosage. I am sure some people will write thats stupid 50mg but I don't think so, 50 mg will build mass as well I think).

All answers will be appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

RedEye. said:


> Guys can you tell me What is appropriate to take with Oxymetholone, please? I would appreciate if you write cycle and pct as well. So I am planning to take Oxymetholone 1 tablet( 50mg) in a day and do not want to increase dosage. I am sure some people will write thats stupid 50mg but I don't think so, 50 mg will build mass as well I think).
> 
> All answers will be appreciated.


Can you start your own thread and ask this question?

This is a sticky to understand PCT.


----------



## RedEye.

hackskii said:


> Can you start your own thread and ask this question?
> 
> This is a sticky to understand PCT.


ok  i will make, Do not forget to write your opinion   :beer:


----------



## hackskii

RedEye. said:


> ok  i will make, Do not forget to write your opinion   :beer:


No worries, just link me.


----------



## RedEye.

hackskii said:


> No worries, just link me.


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/172725-oxymetholone-50mg-cycle-pct.html

I would like professional opinion :beer: .Thanks a lot


----------



## hackskii

Done


----------



## G3NEiol_lwS

those pesky negative feedback loops


----------



## RedEye.

Hi Hackskii you are more experienced then me and i would like your help  . can you pay attention for this thread (especially last post from me ) ,please?

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/170537-pro-chem-dianabol-review-2.html

I planning to take like this method ,we might say  , can you check it out and recommend or add if it needed,please?

Thanks a lot


----------



## Body bag

Hi all, I'm new to all this and haven't been a member on any kind of forum for a long time so please bear with me if I'm not up to speed or make a few mistakes.

I'm 37 years old and did a course of steroids about 15 or so years ago.

I'm 5'11 and weigh 94.5 kilos with about 15/16% bf. I've been doing weights regularly for 2 years now and have a good diet.

I'm planning on doing a sustanon only course for maybe 8-10 weeks, obviously as everyone else does I want to make sure my pct is correct. I think I have a rough idea of how it works as I've spent days reading up on all the posts on here and various other forums.

My problem is I am going away on holiday on the 1st of july, and for obvious reasons apart from maybe taking comic nova and maybe any other tablets that are required for pct, I don't really want to be taking anything injectable with me. So is there anyway of me working this so I can do my 8- 10 week sus course and avoid the overlap of taking hcg while I am away on holiday.

Your comments thoughts and suggestions will be greatly received.

Many thanks


----------



## hackskii

Any reason why you cant wait till you get back?

You could use HCG during your course, then just be on the SERMS once you go on vacation, but to me, I would not compromise a crash while on vacation.

After all libido could be compromised so when you go on vacation you still want to be able to perform if you wanted to.

If you wanted to get into shape, you could do a shorter cycle of orals and be in and out faster.


----------



## Body bag

Thanks for your reply hackskii.

I don't know very much about oral steroids tbh and I always worry regarding how toxic they can be. But I'm willing to try if you have any suggestions and can give me some ideas so I can run it by my supplier and see if he has the suggested available.

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Yah, 6 weeks dbol then run some SERMS for PCT.


----------



## Body bag

Can you give me an idea of how much Dbol I should take for a 6 week course, and the correct pct.

Thanks


----------



## Ahal84

Usual recommended dose is 30mg a day split into three.


----------



## Body bag

Does anyone know if its correct to take proviron and nolvadex while on this cycle and how much?

Also is HCG required for a cycle like this?

Thanks


----------



## BigAggs

:thumb:


----------



## sgniner

Hi hackskii,

Firstly I would like to Thank you for the first clear and coherent(sp?) Pct explanation and description ive have come across on the net. there really is a lot of information and misinformation out there.

I am in need of some advice from you, I have completed a ten week cycle of sust 250 and deca 250. Due to misinformation given to me I only waited 1 week after my last injection to start pct which was 2500IU of HCG followed by 21 days of clomid and tamoxifen. Three weeks on and my libido is zero and when i do get erections they are very weak. Having done my research including your posts in this thread i have come to the conclusion that i did not wait enough time for the test and deca to clear out of my system rendering the pct i done useless. I have today gotten more clomid and tamoxofen and am due to get Hcg on thursday. how would you recommend I use them?


----------



## hackskii

sgniner said:


> Hi hackskii,
> 
> Firstly I would like to Thank you for the first clear and coherent(sp?) Pct explanation and description ive have come across on the net. there really is a lot of information and misinformation out there.
> 
> I am in need of some advice from you, I have completed a ten week cycle of sust 250 and deca 250. Due to misinformation given to me I only waited 1 week after my last injection to start pct which was 2500IU of HCG followed by 21 days of clomid and tamoxifen. Three weeks on and my libido is zero and when i do get erections they are very weak. Having done my research including your posts in this thread i have come to the conclusion that i did not wait enough time for the test and deca to clear out of my system rendering the pct i done useless. I have today gotten more clomid and tamoxofen and am due to get Hcg on thursday. how would you recommend I use them?


Testicular function is the single most important thing you can do.

You will need more HCG, and do another PCT.

How much HCG did you use?

How much test and deca did you inject per week?


----------



## sgniner

hackskii said:


> Testicular function is the single most important thing you can do.
> 
> You will need more HCG, and do another PCT.
> 
> How much HCG did you use?
> 
> How much test and deca did you inject per week?


I only used 1 shot of 2500IU then clomid for 21 days.

I started week 1-2 with 1 shot of sust 250 + deca 250 1ml of each in the same shot then for the rest every monday and thursday of the week. On the last week i dropped the deca and just did the test.

i was going on the advice of the person i got the stuff from


----------



## hackskii

500mg deca a week is pretty supressive, but 10 weeks should be not so bad.

2500iu HCG EOD x 8

Clomid @ 100mg ED for 30 days

Nolva @ 20mg ED for 45 days.

You should be fine.


----------



## sgniner

thanks for the advice i will Follow this protocol and post updates.


----------



## ivan360

Hi Hacksii,

I'm planning a 10 week cycle of Sustanon with a DBol kick start.

The cycle looks like this:

Week 1 - 10: Sustanon 500mg/week

Week 1-3: DBol 20mg/day

Week 2 to 10: HCG 1000iu/week

Week 2 to 10: Arimidex 0.5mg EOD

•	After 4 weeks since last jab of Sust I'll start the PCT(still continuing the HCG and AI till PCT starts)

PCT

Clomid 100/50/50/50

Nolva 20/20/20/20

Is this alright? Should I change or adjust anything?

Thanks in advance


----------



## hackskii

Up the clomid to 100mg a day for the first 2 weeks.

Could do 100 for 3 weeks drop the clomid and go 4 weeks on the nolva


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> Up the clomid to 100mg a day for the first 2 weeks.
> 
> Could do 100 for 3 weeks drop the clomid and go 4 weeks on the nolva


thanks. follow up question: is my AI ok or am I using to much by taking it EOD


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> thanks. follow up question: is my AI ok or am I using to much by taking it EOD


That should be fine, just stay on the lookout for estrogenic sides, if so, up the dose.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> That should be fine, just stay on the lookout for estrogenic sides, if so, up the dose.


Man I just got word that Pregnyl is no longer being sold here in my country. Do you know other brands of HCG? My AAS guy is offering me China Meds brand never even heard of it.


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> Man I just got word that Pregnyl is no longer being sold here in my country. Do you know other brands of HCG? My AAS guy is offering me China Meds brand never even heard of it.


I found the china stuff pretty strong myself, comes in multi-use vials too at 2000iu per vial.

There are many brands.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> I found the china stuff pretty strong myself, comes in multi-use vials too at 2000iu per vial.
> 
> There are many brands.


would you recommend using the china stuff? well i dont really have an option do i since they dont sell pregnyl here anymore. Man too bad i cant get pregnyl that stuff really worked. im just scared to try that china meds brand


----------



## hackskii

I love the china stuff, I dont know why but much easier than having an amp and storing the stuff in pins.

Multiuse is way better.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> I love the china stuff, I dont know why but much easier than having an amp and storing the stuff in pins.
> 
> Multiuse is way better.


Thanks I'll try the Chine meds then. Did they really stop making Pregnyl I mean worldwide? The drug stores here said it was phased out


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> Thanks I'll try the Chine meds then. Did they really stop making Pregnyl I mean worldwide? The drug stores here said it was phased out


Not sure, I heard they stopped making bac water now they are again.

Pregnyl is very popular in Europe so I doubt they stopped it, but it could happen.


----------



## veekaysingh

Ok ppl wanted to know. Cycle: dbol only 30mg ed for 4 weeks. What pct is required nolva or clomidabd how many weeks.and also wud it be wise to use nolva on cycle of signs of gyno?


----------



## Beastography

Hackskii I can't pm you (still a noob). If you don't mind giving me some info I'm planning my first cycle and I've read through all your VERY informative stickies on the forum.

Few q's if you don't mind answering I'd be grateful:

(on a 10-12 week test e only cycle @ 500mg/pw)

- how would you advise HCG? I've read your sticky but want to know which way is more beneficial. Using 500iux2 a week or the blast method during pct phase (yes I'm trying to minimise pinning).

- I've read in some places it's ONLY sub-Q and in other places IM. what is better, and if IM can I use the same shot as test?

- i understand there is always risks involved gyno/balding etc but following the PCT protocol sticky would this be the best way to minimise these or can alternative methods be used to make the cycle SAFER? (even if it minimises gains)

- last q: you're a steroid guru, would you consider adopting me so I can constantly ask you questions like a 3 year old kid just learning about the world?

"what's that, why, how, what's that, why, how"


----------



## hackskii

500iu twice a week would be best.

Keep it in there to the start day of PCT.

Sub-Q hands down, less scar tissue, leave the IM for the gear.

Sure, ask questions, most all of the questions have already been asked somewhere on this board already.

Many very knowledgeable guys on here.


----------



## Beastography

Awesome, thanks for your time. It is going to be my first cycle so I'm being very cautious and getting as much confirmation as possible! Good to have websites and people like yourself making it easier and also putting peoples minds at ease. Cheers buddy!


----------



## Beastography

hackskii quick question, I've read through the sticks again; don't you recommend tapering off nolva & clomid? I read about estrogen rebound etc so just curious.

You've recommended:

Clomid 50mg twice a day for 30 days

Nolva 20mg once a day for 45 days

No danger of estrogen rebound from sudden stop of nolva/clomid?


----------



## hackskii

No rebounding with 20mg nolva.

With an AI this would be so, there is a chance but the half life is kind of self tapering anyway.


----------



## Beastography

So the dose mentioned above is ok as it stands, no need for tapering off?

Clomid 50mg twice a day for 30 days

Nolva 20mg once a day for 45 days


----------



## hackskii

Beastography said:


> So the dose mentioned above is ok as it stands, no need for tapering off?
> 
> Clomid 50mg twice a day for 30 days
> 
> Nolva 20mg once a day for 45 days


Its fine


----------



## Cognos

Hi Hackskii,

*

Really appreciate if you could help me out ?

*

I did a 10 week course of the following:

*

2 x 1ml of Test 400

2 x 1ml of Bold 300

2 x 0.5ml of Tri-Tren 150 *(stopped after 5-6 weeks )

*

Waited 2 weeks after the last jab then ran the below PCT:

*

3 x 1500iu HCG eod

50mg Clomid for 30 days

20mg Novadex for 30 days

*

I realise after reading your thread that my PCT probably wasn't enough&#8230;.backed up by 7 months off ALL gear I still get dull ball ache sometimes like you get when they're coming back during PCT.

*

Me & my other half have been trying for a baby and my SA results are not ideal, my docs say I don't need blood tests as my body would have recovered from my ASS naturally (!?!) so I am trying to find a private clinic in london to do this asap so I can get some figures.

*

Would it be worth me running your 45 day PCT again in the meantime ? *Like this :

*

9 x 1500iu HCG eod

2 x 50mg Clomid for 30 days

1 x 20mg NOvadex for 45 days

*

Thanks in advance.


----------



## hackskii

You might be ok with just clomid.

You did start a bit too early though, and were probably too light on the HCG first time around.

You can have sex right?

Erections are ok?


----------



## Cognos

Yeah can have sex no probs.

Wouldnt say I wake up every day with morning wood but yeah I can get it up ok.

Worried about the ball ache thing tho?


----------



## hackskii

Cognos said:


> Yeah can have sex no probs.
> 
> Wouldnt say I wake up every day with morning wood but yeah I can get it up ok.
> 
> Worried about the ball ache thing tho?


You are fine, a bit of clomid could not hurt but if you do nothing will be fine.

There are vitamins, minerals, and amino acids that will help with fertility.

I cant remember the exact name but seminax or something like that can be used.


----------



## PeterPann

Hello, Scott. I have a few questions about my PCT. I admire everything you do, on this forum. And I have to say: sir, you have a lot of patience to answer all the same question over and over again. So I had some patience too, and I have read all 48 pages of this thread. Took me about 14 hours. And it answered most of my questions.

*My stats*

Age 25

Height 5'10"

Weight 171 lbs

BF 11-12%

*Cycle*

W 1-10 Test Enth 200mg E3D (500mg/w)

W 1-12 Arimidex 0.5 mg 2x/w

W 3-12 HCG 500iu 2x/w (10000 iu total for cycle)(running hcg during a cycle prevents testicular atrophy and makes recovery easier)

W 3-12 Vitamin E 1000 iu 2x/w on HCG days (It increases the responsiveness of plasma testosterone levels to HCG, making them significantly higher during vitamin E administration than without it. So we get a better response with HCG by taking Vitamin E (recommend dose 1,000iu/day)).

*Optional Ancillaries *

W 1-10 Arimidex dose up to 0.5mg EOD if gyno symptoms (itchy/tender nipples) start to show

W 1-10 Letrozole on hand in case if gyno will go out of control to reverse it.

*PCT*

W 13-16 (30days) Clomid 50mg 2x/d

W 13-18 (45days) Nolva 20mg/d

W 19-22 DAA 3.5g/d TMG 2000mg/d (optional)

W 24 bloodwork (I've read some place its optimal to wait 6 weeks after PCT)

*Questions*

1.Is it ok running HCG W 3-12? Or maybe more proper is to run it W 1-12 (12000 iu of HCG total)?

2.What's the highest recommended dose of Arimidex during a cycle if I'll be prone to gyno?

3.Vitamin E 1000 iu/day. Do I need it only on HCG days or run it ED throughout the cycle?

3.Thoughts on HMG? Do I need to run it alongside HCG? I've read it's very beneficial.

4.How high is a chance to end up with a low test level (or even on TRT) after a proper PCT? (I've read so many threads when people get 90yo man testosterone levels even after a proper PCT)


----------



## Cognos

Hackskii, thank you so much mate for taking the time to reply to me...appreciate it!

So you think just Clomid cycle then, No need to do Novadex as well?

What sort of mg and duration for the Clomid?


----------



## hackskii

PeterPann said:


> Hello, Scott. I have a few questions about my PCT. I admire everything you do, on this forum. And I have to say: sir, you have a lot of patience to answer all the same question over and over again. So I had some patience too, and I have read all 48 pages of this thread. Took me about 14 hours. And it answered most of my questions.
> 
> *My stats*
> 
> Age 25
> 
> Height 5'10"
> 
> Weight 171 lbs
> 
> BF 11-12%
> 
> *Cycle*
> 
> W 1-10 Test Enth 200mg E3D (500mg/w)
> 
> W 1-12 Arimidex 0.5 mg 2x/w
> 
> W 3-12 HCG 500iu 2x/w (10000 iu total for cycle)(running hcg during a cycle prevents testicular atrophy and makes recovery easier)
> 
> W 3-12 Vitamin E 1000 iu 2x/w on HCG days (It increases the responsiveness of plasma testosterone levels to HCG, making them significantly higher during vitamin E administration than without it. So we get a better response with HCG by taking Vitamin E (recommend dose 1,000iu/day)).
> 
> *Optional Ancillaries *
> 
> W 1-10 Arimidex dose up to 0.5mg EOD if gyno symptoms (itchy/tender nipples) start to show
> 
> W 1-10 Letrozole on hand in case if gyno will go out of control to reverse it.
> 
> *PCT*
> 
> W 13-16 (30days) Clomid 50mg 2x/d
> 
> W 13-18 (45days) Nolva 20mg/d
> 
> W 19-22 DAA 3.5g/d TMG 2000mg/d (optional)
> 
> W 24 bloodwork (I've read some place its optimal to wait 6 weeks after PCT)
> 
> *Questions*
> 
> 1.Is it ok running HCG W 3-12? Or maybe more proper is to run it W 1-12 (12000 iu of HCG total)?
> 
> 2.What's the highest recommended dose of Arimidex during a cycle if I'll be prone to gyno?
> 
> 3.Vitamin E 1000 iu/day. Do I need it only on HCG days or run it ED throughout the cycle?
> 
> 3.Thoughts on HMG? Do I need to run it alongside HCG? I've read it's very beneficial.
> 
> 4.How high is a chance to end up with a low test level (or even on TRT) after a proper PCT? (I've read so many threads when people get 90yo man testosterone levels even after a proper PCT)


1. HCG is fine kept the way you have it, but run it to start day of PCT at week 13.

2. Highest dose of adex would be 1mg ED, but that would probably be overkill, you need some estrogen for gains as well.

3. Vitamin E is 1000iu ED, and you can run that throughout. Vitamin D is another one that probably should be in that mix.

Not to mention the immune boost D gives, and is necessary for testosterone production.

Also a Dr. Eugene Shippen (TRT doc), noticed that his men with deficiencies in vitamin D did not respond as well to HCG.

Technically it can bump up natty T levels if one is low, I noticed this first hand, and probably is one of the most common deficiency there is.

I take D at 5000iu ED and noticed I get more night time wood, oily face, etc.

HMG probably will not be necessary, nor required here.

4. Not that likely, the whole problem with recovery is testicular function, you have that, you will recover very easy.


----------



## hackskii

Cognos said:


> Hackskii, thank you so much mate for taking the time to reply to me...appreciate it!
> 
> So you think just Clomid cycle then, No need to do Novadex as well?
> 
> What sort of mg and duration for the Clomid?


I would start right now at 100mg for 21 days.

That should get you very close, and not long enough to notice the vision sides.


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> 1. HCG is fine kept the way you have it, but run it to start day of PCT at week 13.
> 
> 2. Highest dose of adex would be 1mg ED, but that would probably be overkill, you need some estrogen for gains as well.
> 
> 3. Vitamin E is 1000iu ED, and you can run that throughout. Vitamin D is another one that probably should be in that mix.
> 
> Not to mention the immune boost D gives, and is necessary for testosterone production.
> 
> Also a Dr. Eugene Shippen (TRT doc), noticed that his men with deficiencies in vitamin D did not respond as well to HCG.
> 
> Technically it can bump up natty T levels if one is low, I noticed this first hand, and probably is one of the most common deficiency there is.
> 
> I take D at 5000iu ED and noticed I get more night time wood, oily face, etc.
> 
> HMG probably will not be necessary, nor required here.
> 
> 4. Not that likely, the whole problem with recovery is testicular function, you have that, you will recover very easy.


Thank you, sir. :thumb :cheers:beer:


----------



## Cognos

hackskii said:


> I would start right now at 100mg for 21 days.
> 
> That should get you very close, and not long enough to notice the vision sides.


Thank you very much, you are a legend!


----------



## PeterPann

hey, Hackskii!

is it true that athletes like Arnold, Zane, Dave Draper, Larry Scott, Serge Nubret, Lou Ferrigno, Sergio Oliva never did PCT? Because there wasn't any.


----------



## latblaster

PeterPann said:


> hey, Hackskii!
> 
> is it true that athletes like Arnold, Zane, Dave Draper, Larry Scott, Serge Nubret, Lou Ferrigno, Sergio Oliva never did PCT? Because there wasn't any.


Shurrrup!


----------



## hackskii

PeterPann said:


> hey, Hackskii!
> 
> is it true that athletes like Arnold, Zane, Dave Draper, Larry Scott, Serge Nubret, Lou Ferrigno, Sergio Oliva never did PCT? Because there wasn't any.


They did not do any.

But I bet money more than one of them crashed, they just never said anything about it.


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> They did not do any.


This means that human body is able to restore natural T level even without drug help. So why there are so many young guys ending up on TRT these days?

Do you think that AAS decrease endogenous testosterone output over time? (i'm sorry that the questions is a little bit off topic, couldn't find the other way to ask)


----------



## paulshane

Excellent post hack, New to this site, been training a year, just starting 3rd week of first cycle (deca/test), the main reason I joined this forum was to get advice and get myself as informed as possible from guys who have been there and done it. I have to say that the first post I read (yours) is well written and informative. You have answered most of my questions without me having to ask anything. Obviously I have previously read up on pct and the consensus seems to be hcg, clomid and nolva but I needed to have it all collated/concluded, which you have done for all to see.

thanks

Paul

p.s. Please make sure your inspections are thorough.......... I drive them (757 skip)


----------



## paulshane

Ok, been through most of this thread and have come to a conclusion..........

I am doing a 10 week cycle (first one).

200mg deca each week (1 shot).

500 mg test each week (split into 2 shots, 1 with the deca on saturday and the other mid week).

Pct.......... wait 2 weeks after last shot (nothing during this period), then go with..............

hcg. 2500 every other day for 16 days, total 8 shots.

Clomid. 50mg X 2 daily for 30 days, total 3000mg.

Nolva. 20mg daily for 45 days, total 900mg.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

Paul


----------



## PeterPann

paulshane said:


> Pct.......... wait 2 weeks after last shot (nothing during this period), then go with..............


3 weeks

it depends when do u stop ur deca and what kind of test using.

*waiting time*

Testosterone Cypionate: 18 days after last injection

Testosterone Enanthate: 14 days after last injection

Testosterone Propionate: 3 days after last injection

Testosterone Suspension: 24 hours after last administration

Deca: 21 days after last injection


----------



## PeterPann

paulshane said:


> hcg. 2500 every other day for 16 days, total 8 shots.
> 
> Clomid. 50mg X 2 daily for 30 days, total 3000mg.
> 
> Nolva. 20mg daily for 45 days, total 900mg.
> 
> Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks guys
> 
> Paul


Correct. But it would better if u run ur HCG during a cycle 500 iu 2x/w. It prevents testicular atrophy and makes recovery much easier.

Deca is very HPTA suppressive drug and its not recommended using it on ur first cycle. just go with a test only, save deca for next cycles

PP


----------



## paulshane

Hi PP

Thanks for prompt reply. Have already started my 3rd week of cycle with deca and test depo, ok, so the deca seems to be the determining factor here and 3 weeks after last shot is the optimum time.

I would prefer my woman not to know I am on "the juice" so HCG during cycle sounds good in order to prevent her from observing my balls shrinking.

Ok, so, first revised PCT plan questions..........

HCG......... Start immediately or midway (for example) through cycle? Continue with it after last shot of Deca and increase dosage?

Clomid and Nolva.........Start 3 weeks after last shot of Deca?

Thanks for your time and advice

Paul


----------



## hackskii

HCG during 500iu twice a week throughout, even while your gear is clearing keep the HCG in the mix.

Then week 3 you can start your clomid and nolva.

You wont need to run it as long as you already have kept the testicles alive.

I would start 100mg clomid for 3 weeks and 4 weeks nolva at 20mg.

That should get you close, if you find you are not doing as well during the PCT you can run it longer.

Idea really is to keep testicular function. If the balls don't work, recovery will take longer.

All kinds of tools now to work with from GnRH drugs like (Triptorelin) to human menopausal gonadotropin (HMG), and various different SERMS.


----------



## paulshane

Hey Hackskii

Thanks also to yourself for the prompt reply.

Ok, the revised and possibly final plan for my pct.......................

HCG .......... 500 iu twice a week during cycle and continue with the same dosage for 3 weeks after my last shot of deca.

Clomid......... 100 mg a day for 3 weeks, starting 3 weeks after last shot of deca.

Nolva.......... 20 mg a day for 4 weeks, starting 3 weeks after last shot of deca.

Your advice is much appreciated

Thanks

Paul


----------



## PeterPann

paulshane said:


> Ok, the revised and possibly final plan for my pct.......................
> 
> HCG .......... 500 iu twice a week during cycle and continue with the same dosage for 3 weeks after my last shot of deca.
> 
> Clomid......... 100 mg a day for 3 weeks, starting 3 weeks after last shot of deca.
> 
> Nolva.......... 20 mg a day for 4 weeks, starting 3 weeks after last shot of deca.
> 
> Your advice is much appreciated
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paul


You also can drop ur deca a week before u drop ur test (deca for 9 weeks, test for 10 weeks) so ur gear will clear up at the same time and u can start PCT after 2 weeks instead of 3.

Best regards,

PP


----------



## paulshane

Thanks to you both for steering me in the right direction. Starting to see changes and looking forward to more. Will let you know how things develop.

Cheers guys.


----------



## sunn

It has taken me 2 whole days to read this thread but it is the most informative thread on uk muscle!

Hacksi-thank you for all your replies to everyone as it answered many of my questionsn I have a much better understanding now all the best buddy


----------



## PeterPann

hey, Hackskii!

What are your thoughts about PCT for non steroid users with low test level?

I just got bloodwork results. and I have low test (416) and low FSH (1.0). and its low for 25 yo guy 

It might be because of lack of sleep and over-training or something else. i never did AAS before. and going on my first cycle soon. do you think that PCT after cycle might elevate my natural level to higher level? Or is it to risky going on cycle in first place?

I have CMP (liver, kidney values and more), CBC (blood counts), total Testosterone, total Estrogen, LH and FSH blood work done. let me know if you can take a look at it.

any advise would be greatly appreciated. thank you.

best regards,

PP


----------



## hackskii

Could be from many things actually.

Poor sleep, vitamin, or mineral deficiencies, stress, low fat dieting, low cholesterol, scrip drugs, environmental estrogens, excessive aromitization, etc.


----------



## Ad0nis

Anyone got any tips they can offer me?

Was just doin a course for roughly 6 weeks of DBol (finish this wknd) at 30mg ED. Only took this amount as first time on the dark side!!

Gained about 7lbs of (what looks like) pretty lean

Muscle but wondering what PCT I should do. Haven't had any sides and opinions differ whether I need any real PCT at all?


----------



## hackskii

Just some clomid would be fine.


----------



## Ad0nis

hackskii said:


> Just some clomid would be fine.


----------



## Ad0nis

What sorta dosage of clomid would u recommend an for how long?


----------



## hackskii

Ad0nis said:


> What sorta dosage of clomid would u recommend an for how long?


3 weeks at 100mg should be totally fine.


----------



## paulshane

First chemist shop I walked into in casablanca............. clomid and nolva over the counter, no prescription, no problem. Result!


----------



## Fat

Is there ever a need to run adex in PCT?


----------



## hackskii

Fat said:


> Is there ever a need to run adex in PCT?


No, estrogen wont be a problem anyway as with low Testosterone levels it is likely aromitization would be low as well.

Driving down estrogen lower than it already is wont make recovery faster, in fact probably just give you stiff joints and even lower libido than you would have post cycle anyway, not to mention probably compromise lipid profile that is already compromised from the cycle anyway.


----------



## Fat

Thanks good info like always mate.


----------



## paulshane

I was going to start this post with "You will not believe how f...cking ****ed off I am" but having read through some of the injury posts i will start with......................................... i have a problem which numerous others have experienced many times.

Just started 6th week of a 10 week deca/test cycle (my first cycle) and am making great progress, extremely happy and pleased (actually that is understating how I feel about the changes in my physical form) with the change in strength and appearance of my 50 yr old body. Have increased from 71kgs to nearly 76kgs in body weight. Cant stop looking at my lat spread and double biceps etc etc......... I guess you have all been there.

So, the problem, lower back injury/pain. Will cut a long story short here. Clinging on to the hope of getting back into the gym within a week by the thinnest of threads but fairly certain I am forced to stop training until it shows some improvement.

Have been on 200mg deca and 250mg test weekly, my next shot is due next saturday, if i cant train by then I guess it will be pointless to continue with the gear.

So, sticking with the theme of this thread, I have HCG, nolva and clomid on standby. Any advice on PCT for my shortened cycle would be (once again) much appreciated.

Paul


----------



## hackskii

paulshane said:


> I was going to start this post with "You will not believe how f...cking ****ed off I am" but having read through some of the injury posts i will start with......................................... i have a problem which numerous others have experienced many times.
> 
> Just started 6th week of a 10 week deca/test cycle (my first cycle) and am making great progress, extremely happy and pleased (actually that is understating how I feel about the changes in my physical form) with the change in strength and appearance of my 50 yr old body. Have increased from 71kgs to nearly 76kgs in body weight. Cant stop looking at my lat spread and double biceps etc etc......... I guess you have all been there.
> 
> So, the problem, lower back injury/pain. Will cut a long story short here. Clinging on to the hope of getting back into the gym within a week by the thinnest of threads but fairly certain I am forced to stop training until it shows some improvement.
> 
> Have been on 200mg deca and 250mg test weekly, my next shot is due next saturday, if i cant train by then I guess it will be pointless to continue with the gear.
> 
> So, sticking with the theme of this thread, I have HCG, nolva and clomid on standby. Any advice on PCT for my shortened cycle would be (once again) much appreciated.
> 
> Paul


Can I ask you what you did to your back?

Recovery should not be that big of a deal with the amount of gear you are using and time on.


----------



## paulshane

Not sure exactly what has happened, didnt even do it in the gym (dont think so anyway), dont laugh but i was just turning to sit on the toilet and felt something change, trained chest and triceps the following day, no problem, then legs and biceps the following day and felt something not quite right when performing leg curls. next morning i found it difficult to put my left sock on so i skipped my back/shoulder workout, cant lift my left leg without quite a lot of pain, right side is fine, 4 days on now and it is improving slightly but is definately still there.

Many years ago (about 25 actually) I was deadlifting at max weight and messed it up badly. Had to stop training due to a lot of lower left back pain. I hadn't touched a weight until last summer and I have avoided dead lift, bent over rowing and squats as a precaution, so, hoping it isnt the same injury coming back to haunt me, but I am beginning to fear the worst.


----------



## diddler

Hi Hackskii,

I have done a 6 week prohormone cycle of Epistane folowed by a recommended 4 week PCT of Nolva 20/20/10/10 and some DAA.. PCT finished 3 days ago. During the last week or so of PCT, started to loose libido, and no morning wood. Up to then all was well. Balls feel smaller, no idea of ejaculate volume at the minute, but was lower during early PCT.

I havedecided to add some clomid at 100/day for the last couple of days, as nolva now stopped, to see if this helps recovery.

Would you recommend continuing with the clomid for a while?

Should i stop all the PCT stuff and give it a couple of weeks to see what happens?

HCG?

Cycle went well, just a bit of lethargy during the last week and early PCT, but generally feel fine now.

Im 46, first cyle of anything. Did try Ostarine for a week or so, at a lowish dose, but that shut me down pretty quick, few days of Clomid sorted that out.

Thanks .


----------



## hackskii

Just use clomid.

2 weeks 100mg then drop it to 50 for a week, if you still do not notice then do 50 EOD till you feel better.

I dont like the estrogen rebounding with the epi but then again I dont do the designer stuff, just testosterone and an AI with HCG during.


----------



## diddler

hackskii said:


> Just use clomid.
> 
> 2 weeks 100mg then drop it to 50 for a week, if you still do not notice then do 50 EOD till you feel better.
> 
> I dont like the estrogen rebounding with the epi but then again I dont do the designer stuff, just testosterone and an AI with HCG during.


Thanks


----------



## winker86

Thanks mate good read


----------



## NO-IDEA

Hi Hacksii good thread mate, just trying to learn and take all this in this appears alot more complicated than it actually is i guess lol.

my next cycle ends with week 8-12 being test prop, im coming off for a long period of time so i need to recover nicely. Now ive been scaning through the fertility thread as thats my reason for coming off, and reading peoples results. I came to the conclusion i was going to start HCG on week 8-12 at 1000 IU per week (2x500iu), then im on holiday week 13 so i would commence standard pct of clomid + nolva on the day of arriving back. Im also going to add in proviron in a low dose as its meant to be good for sperm!

HOWEVER then i read the docs protocol and im stressing big time thinking im going to do it wrong! (i lose sleep)OCD), Is my aproach acceptable or would you use the 2500 iu as suggested by the doc? btw im VERY gyno sensitive!

I would apprechiate any kind of reply..

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

NO-IDEA said:


> Hi Hacksii good thread mate, just trying to learn and take all this in this appears alot more complicated than it actually is i guess lol.
> 
> my next cycle ends with week 8-12 being test prop, im coming off for a long period of time so i need to recover nicely. Now ive been scaning through the fertility thread as thats my reason for coming off, and reading peoples results. I came to the conclusion i was going to start HCG on week 8-12 at 1000 IU per week (2x500iu), then im on holiday week 13 so i would commence standard pct of clomid + nolva on the day of arriving back. Im also going to add in proviron in a low dose as its meant to be good for sperm!
> 
> HOWEVER then i read the docs protocol and im stressing big time thinking im going to do it wrong! (i lose sleep)OCD), Is my aproach acceptable or would you use the 2500 iu as suggested by the doc? btw im VERY gyno sensitive!
> 
> I would apprechiate any kind of reply..
> 
> Thanks


Yah, it is unlikely that you would recover with 4 weeks of 1000iu a week then the SERMS.

I think you probably would crash on your holiday.


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> Yah, it is unlikely that you would recover with 4 weeks of 1000iu a week then the SERMS.
> 
> I think you probably would crash on your holiday.


OOH no exactly what i don't want to happen!! what about 6 weeks of 1000 IU per week before the serms? OR 2500 IU EOD for 8 shots? in that case I would start 16 days before my holiday with jabing the HCG, and would need 20000 iu of HCG?

Sorry to sound so thick!


----------



## hackskii

Well you would need about 6 weeks to recover, and that is after the gear cleared your system.

Depending on the dose and ester of the gear perhaps 2 months, or even longer.


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> Well you would need about 6 weeks to recover, and that is after the gear cleared your system.
> 
> Depending on the dose and ester of the gear perhaps 2 months, or even longer.


Ok thanks well i think the prop clears from my body prity much straight away. My last injection of prop would be the day i go on holiday same for the HCG then the day i get back (one week later) i plan on starting the Clomid and Nolva + proviron for libido and sperm. I just want to make sure im recovered by the time i start my next cycle 12 weeks later, but want to make sure i make the right decision with the HCG dosages... I've never used it before so am properly in terrible shape hormone wise, and its worrying me..

At the moment i have 15000 iu at my disposal, how would you run this in my position to make the most of a ****ty situation. Again apologies im just trying to learn


----------



## hackskii

NO-IDEA said:


> Ok thanks well i think the prop clears from my body prity much straight away. My last injection of prop would be the day i go on holiday same for the HCG then the day i get back (one week later) i plan on starting the Clomid and Nolva + proviron for libido and sperm. I just want to make sure im recovered by the time i start my next cycle 12 weeks later, but want to make sure i make the right decision with the HCG dosages... I've never used it before so am properly in terrible shape hormone wise, and its worrying me..
> 
> At the moment i have 15000 iu at my disposal, how would you run this in my position to make the most of a ****ty situation. Again apologies im just trying to learn


I didnt read the prop, lol

Well, it takes a few days for the prop to leave your system, and likely if you do not have testicular function you probably will crash.

I would hate to go on holiday and not feel my best.

Why not use a longer ester to get you through your holiday then do a PCT when you get back?

I would need to know the numbers of the days you were leaving to figure out when to start your PCT so you would be as close to recovery as possible for your holiday.

Just re read your post.

So you go on holiday in 5 weeks time?

Power PCT is 6 weeks long.

just use a long ester and then go on holiday and sort it out when you get back.

Power PCT is 20,000iu HCG anyway, you will be a bit short.


----------



## daz89uk

Just about to jump on nandrone test 400 with sus 250 at 1ml of each for 10 weeks but I got told too stop nandrone early and DO NOT use Novla cause of the deca all I've got is 4 weeks worth of Novla and Clomid and 2 weeks of adrimex is this ok or not if so why !?!?! Thanks


----------



## daz89uk

Also got pregnly 5000 iu spelling :/


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> I didnt read the prop, lol
> 
> Well, it takes a few days for the prop to leave your system, and likely if you do not have testicular function you probably will crash.
> 
> I would hate to go on holiday and not feel my best.
> 
> Why not use a longer ester to get you through your holiday then do a PCT when you get back?
> 
> I would need to know the numbers of the days you were leaving to figure out when to start your PCT so you would be as close to recovery as possible for your holiday.
> 
> Just re read your post.
> 
> So you go on holiday in 5 weeks time?
> 
> Power PCT is 6 weeks long.
> 
> just use a long ester and then go on holiday and sort it out when you get back.
> 
> Power PCT is 20,000iu HCG anyway, you will be a bit short.


Thanks for replying, im going on holiday on the 30th of setember so aprox 8 weeks away. I have been on cycle for about 18 weeks as of today, but i did take 4 weeks off and started ''blasting'' again 3 weeks ago, the reason why i've stayed on for so long is because i had two strongman comps to do the one which was 6 weeks ago then another in 4 weeks time. So basically it made no sence coming off.. Then a holiday was booked which fell a month after my last comp.. knowing that if i came off 4 weeks before the comp i would feel like crap i descided i would stay on and take some prop to diet down a bit.. then have a lengthly break after i return from holiday. On top of that i have a girlfriend that is extremely ''broody'' and knows me taking stuff will effect her pregnanct chances.. So i need to get it right lol..

I also just got another 5000 iu of hcg so now have all the tools, i just need to decide the best plan. I read the power pct protocol and it looks nice. However other sources and people on here talk about starting like 4-6 weeks before the last steroid EXIT there bodys then start the nolva and clomid.. as the hcg interferes with the body doing its job naturally... i read the hcg acts like an outside battery to a dead engine, kick starting it and preparing it to do its job then the nolva and clomid then encourages your body to do the job itself.. so i was kind of getting to terms with this then see the power pct where it says run it all together (all the stuff hcg nolva clomid) for the first 16 days lol.. so I dont know which direction to take.. Its making my brain hurt literally lol..

heres the fertility thread where people are talking about getting reults from using hcg like 4 weeks from the end of the cycle and getting good results..

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/56255-fertility-thread-includes-old-posts-previous.html

I really dont have an idea which protocol to follow, but one things for sure i need to come off and recover lol..


----------



## TrailerParkBoy

i believe nolva can make gyno worse with deca, if you get gyno


----------



## hackskii

NO-IDEA said:


> Thanks for replying, im going on holiday on the 30th of setember so aprox 8 weeks away. I have been on cycle for about 18 weeks as of today, but i did take 4 weeks off and started ''blasting'' again 3 weeks ago, the reason why i've stayed on for so long is because i had two strongman comps to do the one which was 6 weeks ago then another in 4 weeks time. So basically it made no sence coming off.. Then a holiday was booked which fell a month after my last comp.. knowing that if i came off 4 weeks before the comp i would feel like crap i descided i would stay on and take some prop to diet down a bit.. then have a lengthly break after i return from holiday. On top of that i have a girlfriend that is extremely ''broody'' and knows me taking stuff will effect her pregnanct chances.. So i need to get it right lol..
> 
> I also just got another 5000 iu of hcg so now have all the tools, i just need to decide the best plan. I read the power pct protocol and it looks nice. However other sources and people on here talk about starting like 4-6 weeks before the last steroid EXIT there bodys then start the nolva and clomid.. as the hcg interferes with the body doing its job naturally... i read the hcg acts like an outside battery to a dead engine, kick starting it and preparing it to do its job then the nolva and clomid then encourages your body to do the job itself.. so i was kind of getting to terms with this then see the power pct where it says run it all together (all the stuff hcg nolva clomid) for the first 16 days lol.. so I dont know which direction to take.. Its making my brain hurt literally lol..
> 
> heres the fertility thread where people are talking about getting reults from using hcg like 4 weeks from the end of the cycle and getting good results..
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/56255-fertility-thread-includes-old-posts-previous.html
> 
> I really dont have an idea which protocol to follow, but one things for sure i need to come off and recover lol..


Well, if you do not have testicular function then recovery wont be possible.

So, if you do use HCG at the end of the cycle yet do not achieve testicular function, you will fail.

Low dose during cycle is good, low dose at the end of a 18 week cycle wont allow enough stimulation for the pituitary to do its job.

So, lets make it simple and do the power PCT as at this point low dose wont do much and then using the SERMS you will likely crash.

If fertility is an issue we can address that same time as the power PCT but you will need a few more goodies in your bag.

Let me know if you want to recovery testosterone levels or get ready for fertility.

Sound like a plan so far?


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> Well, if you do not have testicular function then recovery wont be possible.
> 
> So, if you do use HCG at the end of the cycle yet do not achieve testicular function, you will fail.
> 
> Low dose during cycle is good, low dose at the end of a 18 week cycle wont allow enough stimulation for the pituitary to do its job.
> 
> So, lets make it simple and do the power PCT as at this point low dose wont do much and then using the SERMS you will likely crash.
> 
> If fertility is an issue we can address that same time as the power PCT but you will need a few more goodies in your bag.
> 
> Let me know if you want to recovery testosterone levels or get ready for fertility.
> 
> Sound like a plan so far?


Thanks for replying again, yep i see your reasoning. In all honesty it appears I've never done a proper pct in 2.5 years... I've only ever used nolva and clomid, however after 5-6 weeks strangely enough i felt kind of recovered, morning wood, reasonable sex drive etc. Its only when i started thinking about fertility that its dawned on me that my pct was no where near.

So the plan is stay on till holiday maybe add a compound with larger esters than prop to see me through till the end of the holiday so i dont crash, then start the power pct when i get back. Im hoping that after 10 weeks ish i will be recovered to an extent and possibly get some bloods taken.. this will give me a fighting chance of catching her and making pregnancy occur. I will then get back on maybe a month later (i compete quite regularly). but then run HCG from the start of the cycle to keep me firing to an extent (i hear of many who have got there girlfriends pregnant whilst on cycle with hcg) and also help me recover much quicker on that that off time.

Im fully aware that my fertility will not be great as long as im still cycling however with correct procedure and getting near 100 percent functionality after the next pct; my chances should vastly improve than from what i have been doing. Then if it doesn't happen doing it this way (lots of hcg,proviron etc+correct procedure) then i would then come off completely and commit till it happens and also consider hmg which seems impossible to get on the black market lol..

Who would of thought being fertile was so hard lol on the bright side for anyone reading this, i have a few friends that use aas, one has got there gf pregnant whilst on using HCG, another caught there's whilst being off for 7 weeks from a heavy cycle and only used a standard nolva, and clomid pct. Then another came off and used only HCG for pct then she fell got pregnant after 5 months of him being off.

Sorry i've rambled again, so holiday then power pct sounds best!? In my area HCG is very scarce at the minute so price has goine crazy, so using half a 5000 iu amp in one injection will be costly but hopefully worth it lol.. Got some nice pharma nolva to run with it to help stop the gyno as well.. Whilst on the subject when i mix it im presuming if i mix the 5000 iu with 1.5ml of bacs water, this would mean i would have to inject 0.75ml to achieve 2500 iu of hcg?

Thanks again


----------



## hackskii

NO-IDEA said:


> Thanks for replying again, yep i see your reasoning. In all honesty it appears I've never done a proper pct in 2.5 years... I've only ever used nolva and clomid, however after 5-6 weeks strangely enough i felt kind of recovered, morning wood, reasonable sex drive etc. Its only when i started thinking about fertility that its dawned on me that my pct was no where near.
> 
> So the plan is stay on till holiday maybe add a compound with larger esters than prop to see me through till the end of the holiday so i dont crash, then start the power pct when i get back. Im hoping that after 10 weeks ish i will be recovered to an extent and possibly get some bloods taken.. this will give me a fighting chance of catching her and making pregnancy occur. I will then get back on maybe a month later (i compete quite regularly). but then run HCG from the start of the cycle to keep me firing to an extent (i hear of many who have got there girlfriends pregnant whilst on cycle with hcg) and also help me recover much quicker on that that off time.
> 
> Im fully aware that my fertility will not be great as long as im still cycling however with correct procedure and getting near 100 percent functionality after the next pct; my chances should vastly improve than from what i have been doing. Then if it doesn't happen doing it this way (lots of hcg,proviron etc+correct procedure) then i would then come off completely and commit till it happens and also consider hmg which seems impossible to get on the black market lol..
> 
> Who would of thought being fertile was so hard lol on the bright side for anyone reading this, i have a few friends that use aas, one has got there gf pregnant whilst on using HCG, another caught there's whilst being off for 7 weeks from a heavy cycle and only used a standard nolva, and clomid pct. Then another came off and used only HCG for pct then she fell got pregnant after 5 months of him being off.
> 
> Sorry i've rambled again, so holiday then power pct sounds best!? In my area HCG is very scarce at the minute so price has goine crazy, so using half a 5000 iu amp in one injection will be costly but hopefully worth it lol.. Got some nice pharma nolva to run with it to help stop the gyno as well.. Whilst on the subject when i mix it im presuming if i mix the 5000 iu with 1.5ml of bacs water, this would mean i would have to inject 0.75ml to achieve 2500 iu of hcg?
> 
> Thanks again


Yah, you can mix it that way but I use just 1ml of bacteriostatic water to make it easy and not using alot for sub-Q.

You know you can test normal for testosterone yet the sperm might not be good swimmers:lol:

Meaning fertility is not possible till you have good sperm.

Look at the fertility thread, that has more information that you would ever think of, and all dealing with fertility.

Here is the link: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/56255-fertility-thread-includes-old-posts-previous.html


----------



## paulshane

Hi again Guys

Finished first cycle and about to start PCT.

Some big/valuable lessons learned.........

1. No matter how much of a girl you are when it comes to injections, you must overcome the fear and learn to self inject.

2. Always make sure you are in possession of all meds needed for cycle and PCT before starting cycle. I made the mistake of starting my cycle before I got my HCG and was therefore unable to follow the excellent advice offered by Hackskii and PeterPan (run HCG while on cycle).

3. Dont burst into spontaneous panic if you get an injury during cycle.

So, once again, sticking with the theme of this thread..........................

I ran 200mg Deca and 500mg Test for 9 weeks........

From previous posts............

Starting 3 weeks after last shot of Deca........... Clomid 100mg a day for 3 weeks, Nolva 20mg a day for 3 weeks, but my question is regarding the HCG (now I have some). When should I start? How much? Do I use it at the same time as the Clomid and Nolva?

Number 1 lesson to anyone reading this who is planning their first cycle......... Dont rush into it, get as much advice from the experienced guys as you can and dont start your cycle until you have all the products required to complete the cycle including PCT.

cheers

Paul


----------



## hackskii

I would start the HCG now with the clomid and nolva.

How much do you have?


----------



## paulshane

I have 25000, plenty of clomid and nolva, last shot of deca was 2 weeks ago.


----------



## hackskii

paulshane said:


> I have 25000, plenty of clomid and nolva, last shot of deca was 2 weeks ago.


Ok, start your HCG now @ 2000iu EOD X 6 to 8 shots.

Nolva at 20mg for 2 weeks, then add the clomid at 100mg for 3 weeks and continue with the nolva for a week longer than the clomid.

I am recommending this because with just 9 week cycle it may not be that suppressive but then again deca is in the mix but low dose.


----------



## paulshane

Once again, many thanks.


----------



## paulshane

Sorry, just to be sure..............start the nolva with the HCG now?


----------



## hackskii

paulshane said:


> Sorry, just to be sure..............start the nolva with the HCG now?


Yes, to protect your nuts from the HCG.

Then you add in the clomid at the end or 5 days later so you wont be on clomid too long.

You can play it by ear, once at the end of the HCG you should feel pretty good, but if you cant get an erection, feel terrible, you might need to do the HCG longer but with the numbers you gave me, this should work fine.


----------



## synthasize

Hacks,

I am currently cruising on 125mg/week of test, and will be for another 3-5 weeks before hitting another blast.

The cycle in total looks like this:

BLAST 1

Weeks 1-4: 100mg winstrol

Weeks 1-12: 750mg test

CRUISE

Weeks 13-18/20: 125mg test

BLAST 2

Weeks 21-33: 1000mg test

Weeks 21-25: 100mg anadrol

Weeks 21-33: EITHER 500mg deca or 1000mg EQ

Now my question is, after being on this long, do you think throwing deca in my upcoming blast is a bad idea for recovery - I will be doing a power PCT after, and coming of for some months. I also used hCG at 1400iu/week during the first blast, and have been giving that a rest on the cruise to avoid desensitisation, and will get back on at least 1000-1500iu/week on the next blast. I also used adex at 1mg/day during first blast and will resume this (or aromasin) on next blast.

So I wondered whether you thought to completely drop the idea of deca because it will make recovery too difficult, and use EQ, or neither?

thanks


----------



## hackskii

Well, 12 weeks deca at 500mg alone would or could be hard for recovery depending.

33 weeks with over a gram would be something that probably in my mind would not be very easy to recover on.

I really cant answer that to be honest, this is pushing the envelope big time.


----------



## Tyler2012

Hey I'm looking to do a 10 week course of sus and dek but am worried I don't know enough about pct OR even how to start the course properly? I've been given advice from friends but none of them have ever started a course so would be nice to hear from some1 with experience and actually knows what they are talking about. So to start off with do I take the sus and dek together? Or 1 at a time? What are the dosage's I should start on? And what tablets should I take whilst I'm on the cycle? Sorry for the stupid questions just want to do this properly and not end up with tiny balls or leaking chest lol


----------



## paulshane

"You can play it by ear, once at the end of the HCG you should feel pretty good, but if you cant get an erection, feel terrible, you might need to do the HCG longer but with the numbers you gave me, this should work fine."

Actually, effects were nowhere near as drastic as I thought they would be............ No change in sex drive and ability to get a stiffy, still running around like randy pan the goat boy (bill hicks quote) and want to get it on with everything in a skirt. I think my nuts have got smaller by an almost imperceptible amount, ejaculations just as they always were. I presume things would be different with higher doses.


----------



## synthasize

hackskii said:


> Well, 12 weeks deca at 500mg alone would or could be hard for recovery depending.
> 
> 33 weeks with over a gram would be something that probably in my mind would not be very easy to recover on.
> 
> I really cant answer that to be honest, this is pushing the envelope big time.


It wont be 33 weeks at >1gram though mate, only the last 12 weeks will be over a gram.

so if im going to do it would you say forget the deca? i think that might be wise, just stick to test


----------



## geordie_paul

Hi hackskii

I have currently been on a 16 week cycle consisting of 750-1000mgs test, 500mg eq, dbol first 4 weeks and winny last 4. Iv used an ai and low dose hcg through some of the cycle but not all. Iv been doing additional 1000ius hcg and .5mg adex since last shot but haven't really felt much recovery. Decidedd to try 2500ius shot last night, today I woke with morning wood felt increase I libido and feel more fullnes in muscles. Should I continue with the 2500ius shots eod and start the clomid/nolva 3 weeks after last shot of gear? If so how many more shots of hcg, Considering I have had 5 1000iu shots previously.

Thanks

Paul


----------



## paulshane

Why the hell does it hurt so much when injecting HCG? I had absolutely no problem with the Deca and Test, could hardly feel anything. Have done 1 shot in delt and 1 in outer thigh, both hurt quite a bit. I read on another thread that HCG should be pinned IM, is this correct? Help, what am I doing wrong (apart from whining)? I am using the same pins I used for the oils, should I be using an insulin pin and injecting SQ?


----------



## hackskii

synthasize said:


> It wont be 33 weeks at >1gram though mate, only the last 12 weeks will be over a gram.
> 
> so if im going to do it would you say forget the deca? i think that might be wise, just stick to test


33 weeks is the time on that you will be not producing endogenous testosterone.

Even TRT can cause suppression of the HPTA and testicular atrophy. Just because the dose changes means nothing, you wont recover while on testosterone, or any other steroid unless you get below base values.


----------



## hackskii

geordie_paul said:


> Hi hackskii
> 
> I have currently been on a 16 week cycle consisting of 750-1000mgs test, 500mg eq, dbol first 4 weeks and winny last 4. Iv used an ai and low dose hcg through some of the cycle but not all. Iv been doing additional 1000ius hcg and .5mg adex since last shot but haven't really felt much recovery. Decidedd to try 2500ius shot last night, today I woke with morning wood felt increase I libido and feel more fullnes in muscles. Should I continue with the 2500ius shots eod and start the clomid/nolva 3 weeks after last shot of gear? If so how many more shots of hcg, Considering I have had 5 1000iu shots previously.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Paul


Absolutely carry on.

Morning wood would suggest testicular response to the HCG and that is good, this shows they are being stimulated.

You may not need much, but if you keep feeling better than I would suggest just a couple of more shots EOD, then carry on with the SERMS.


----------



## hackskii

paulshane said:


> Why the hell does it hurt so much when injecting HCG? I had absolutely no problem with the Deca and Test, could hardly feel anything. Have done 1 shot in delt and 1 in outer thigh, both hurt quite a bit. I read on another thread that HCG should be pinned IM, is this correct? Help, what am I doing wrong (apart from whining)? I am using the same pins I used for the oils, should I be using an insulin pin and injecting SQ?


Sub-Q that, you can do IM but it wont make any difference either way.

It may hurt because either the volume of water you are using or it flows so easy in the pin that it is being shot too fast and the spray is causing site trauma.

I repeat myself, either way, I prefer sub-Q purely due to scar tissue that I have from too many pins.

Don't inject fast, nice and slow with just enough water to do that job.

HCG does not hurt.


----------



## paulshane

Ok, cheers Scott. I mixed up 5000iu with 5ml of bac water. I think I will use half the amount of water for the next 5000.


----------



## Ahal84

Any reason u mixed 5ml of Bac water with hcg. That only gives you 1000iu of HCG. Should have mixed only 1ml of Bac water, to give you 5000iu of HCG.


----------



## hackskii

I mix with 5000iu with 1ml of bac water.

Sub-Q is easy with not alot of water.

Probably the reason for the pain.

If you ever shot water out of a pin, it goes super far, now consider this causing trauma in the muscle by spraying.

When I sub-Q too fast, I get a bruise.


----------



## paulshane

Ahal84 said:


> Any reason u mixed 5ml of Bac water with hcg. That only gives you 1000iu of HCG. Should have mixed only 1ml of Bac water, to give you 5000iu of HCG.


Ok, confused now, surely if the vial containing the HCG says 5000iu then you get 5000iu of HCG irrespective of the amount of bac water you use.

If I put 2ml of bac water into the vial then the result is 5000iu of HCG contained in 2ml of water, resulting in a 1ml shot containing 2500iu?

If I put 4ml of bac water into the vial then the result is 5000iu of HCG contained in 4ml of water, resulting in a 1ml shot containing 1250iu?

Or have I got this completely wrong?


----------



## Ahal84

paulshane said:


> Ok, confused now, surely if the vial containing the HCG says 5000iu then you get 5000iu of HCG irrespective of the amount of bac water you use.
> 
> If I put 2ml of bac water into the vial then the result is 5000iu of HCG contained in 2ml of water, resulting in a 1ml shot containing 2500iu?
> 
> If I put 4ml of bac water into the vial then the result is 5000iu of HCG contained in 4ml of water, resulting in a 1ml shot containing 1250iu?
> 
> Or have I got this completely wrong?


Yeah seems you got it wrong mate. I'm going from what it says in "HCG: mixing, storing and dosing" sticky. Mars says that: to get 5000iu of HCG you need to mix it with 1ml of Bac water.


----------



## paulshane

Ok, the upshot of this is that one of us has got it wrong, doesnt really matter who it is but what does matter is that one of us may not be pinning the amount of HCG we think we are, could one of the mods correct whoever has got it wrong please, thanks guys.


----------



## Ahal84

X2


----------



## fitdog

Ahal84 said:


> Any reason u mixed 5ml of Bac water with hcg. That only gives you 1000iu of HCG. Should have mixed only 1ml of Bac water, to give you 5000iu of HCG.


This makes no sense the amount of hcg does not change on the amount of water you add be it 1ml or or 5ml, as has been said before use the smallest amount of water to get the job done, 5000iu will mix with 1ml water no problems.


----------



## Ginger Ben

paulshane said:


> Ok, confused now, surely if the vial containing the HCG says 5000iu then you get 5000iu of HCG irrespective of the amount of bac water you use.
> 
> If I put 2ml of bac water into the vial then the result is 5000iu of HCG contained in 2ml of water, resulting in a 1ml shot containing 2500iu?
> 
> If I put 4ml of bac water into the vial then the result is 5000iu of HCG contained in 4ml of water, resulting in a 1ml shot containing 1250iu?
> 
> Or have I got this completely wrong?


Correct. A 5000iu vial is 5000iu however you dilute it.


----------



## Ahal84

Where is Mars when u need him?


----------



## paulshane

Lol. Ok. Are we sorted then Ahal? :thumbup1:


----------



## Ahal84

paulshane said:


> Lol. Ok. Are we sorted then Ahal? :thumbup1:


I've just noticed where I went wrong. In that HCG sticky, Mars forgot to mention that when you mix 1ml of Bac water with HCG and transfer it into 5ml vial, you then have to add another 4ml of Bac water.

Lol all this time I've been doing it wrong. Well I've only done one proper cycle.

My bad


----------



## hackskii

You can mix it all how you want, but the iu in a 5000iu pregnyl is 5000iu.

If you mix it with 1ml of water or 5ml of water, it will always be 5000iu in the water mixed.

I use the least amount of water and use 1ml, I could use less like 1/2 a ml, then a 1/4ml would be 2500iu.

I use 1ml then for every .100ml it would be 500iu, and this is what I shoot twice a week, so that would be 10 shots worth of 500iu which makes 5000iu.

Twice a week would then be 5 weeks worth of 1000iu per week (2 x 500iu).


----------



## Ahal84

Hackskii all this time I was mixing 5000iu HCG with 1ml of Bac water. Then using 5 slin pins to draw HCG (2 ticks on slin pin) and thought that was giving me 1000iu of HCG. Is that still right?


----------



## hackskii

2 long ticks where it says 20 on it.

That is correct.


----------



## sauliuhas

Masteron/ proviron, apparently masteron is like oral proviron, (does it mean if am on masteron I don't need proviron) I was looking on other forums, and just wondering any real experiences with this..


----------



## Elvis82

No, they are not the same compound. You can use 1, both or none of them. It's all preference. Masteron and proviron used together is common on cutting cycles. they may be alike but not 'the same'.


----------



## JR8908

Hackskii, would you be able to check this thread out for me please for some help?

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/191337-messed-up-after-long-time-what-do-next.html

Many thanks


----------



## markluv

Hackskii - First of all this is a great thread and I think it's great that it been going on so long. I spent the last 5 hours reading every single post in here lol.

I have two scenario's I would like advice on for pct.

Scenario 1 - 6 week cycle

Week 1:

Test E 1000mg

Test P 100 M,W,F

NPP 150mg M,W,F

TBOL 100mgs ED

Weeks 2-4

Test E 500mg

Test P 100 M,W,F

NPP 150mg M,W,F

TBOL 100mgs ED

Week 5-6

Test P 100 M,W,F

NPP 150mg M,W,F

TBOL 100mgs ED

I will take 500iu of hcg split into two doses every week and 12.5mg E3D of aromasin. What should my PCT look like? I plan to use HCG, clomid and Nolva but would like some recommend dosages.

Scenario 2:

Consider someone that cycled for about 10 months and got off for 2.5 months but didn't recover and lost a HUGE amount of his gains and wants to get them back. What would the PCT look like for the above cycle taking the other factors into consideration. i've had blood test done and i'm waiting to get them back. Unfortunately I think the doc did just a testerone panel and not a full male pheromone panel. If this is true just having the testerone results be enough to tell if I have recovered or not? I know testicular size is no indication of being completely recovered but I did run HCG during the last couple weeks of my cycle and a couple weeks after and my testicles did restore size. I don't really have a baseline to know what my natural test was before I cycled but I just feel like I haven't recovered and I virtually lost everything I gained over the 10 months. Lost 80% of it. You can see why i'm considering jumping back on one to atleast be able to come off feeling like i accomplished something over the last year. Losing 80% of your gains is pretty depressing. So I would like to do a blast and get some size and feel good again. Then be able to come off working.

Please post a pct for both scenarios. I know it would be better to restore my HPTA completely before doing another cycle but I would like to explore all my options and know what a pct would look like if i went ahead and did another cycle.


----------



## hackskii

markluv said:


> Hackskii - First of all this is a great thread and I think it's great that it been going on so long. I spent the last 5 hours reading every single post in here lol.
> 
> I have two scenario's I would like advice on for pct.
> 
> Scenario 1 - 6 week cycle
> 
> Week 1:
> 
> Test E 1000mg
> 
> Test P 100 M,W,F
> 
> NPP 150mg M,W,F
> 
> TBOL 100mgs ED
> 
> Weeks 2-4
> 
> Test E 500mg
> 
> Test P 100 M,W,F
> 
> NPP 150mg M,W,F
> 
> TBOL 100mgs ED
> 
> Week 5-6
> 
> Test P 100 M,W,F
> 
> NPP 150mg M,W,F
> 
> TBOL 100mgs ED
> 
> I will take 500iu of hcg split into two doses every week and 12.5mg E3D of aromasin. What should my PCT look like? I plan to use HCG, clomid and Nolva but would like some recommend dosages.
> 
> Scenario 2:
> 
> Consider someone that cycled for about 10 months and got off for 2.5 months but didn't recover and lost a HUGE amount of his gains and wants to get them back. What would the PCT look like for the above cycle taking the other factors into consideration. i've had blood test done and i'm waiting to get them back. Unfortunately I think the doc did just a testerone panel and not a full male pheromone panel. If this is true just having the testerone results be enough to tell if I have recovered or not? I know testicular size is no indication of being completely recovered but I did run HCG during the last couple weeks of my cycle and a couple weeks after and my testicles did restore size. I don't really have a baseline to know what my natural test was before I cycled but I just feel like I haven't recovered and I virtually lost everything I gained over the 10 months. Lost 80% of it. You can see why i'm considering jumping back on one to atleast be able to come off feeling like i accomplished something over the last year. Losing 80% of your gains is pretty depressing. So I would like to do a blast and get some size and feel good again. Then be able to come off working.
> 
> Please post a pct for both scenarios. I know it would be better to restore my HPTA completely before doing another cycle but I would like to explore all my options and know what a pct would look like if i went ahead and did another cycle.


For the first cycle I would use the HCG 500iu twice a week myself, all other things look to be in order there, so during the cycle not much you will be able to do to that.

PCT would be 3 days from last jab with the HCG still in the mix then clomid for 3 weeks using 100mg ED, and 4 weeks nolva.

That should do it.

Second one is tricky.

With no blood work looking at LH/FSH, and testosterone, I dont know if the nuts are not firing, or the pituitary is not sending the signal.

Now, one could just do a traditional PCT of HCG, clomid, and nolva and probably do fine.

Now, you have many options here.

1.) A dutch endo doc uses 65mg of testosterone a week and has his guys take a tab of nolva and over months time they recover slowly with no crash as androgens are in the mix.

2.) go on a short cycle feel better, use lowish doses of non suppressive compounds, then do an aggressive PCT.

3.) Do an aggressive PCT and recover, then in the future keep the cycles shorter using non suppressive compounds.


----------



## markluv

hackskii said:


> For the first cycle I would use the HCG 500iu twice a week myself, all other things look to be in order there, so during the cycle not much you will be able to do to that.
> 
> PCT would be 3 days from last jab with the HCG still in the mix then clomid for 3 weeks using 100mg ED, and 4 weeks nolva.
> 
> That should do it.
> 
> Second one is tricky.
> 
> With no blood work looking at LH/FSH, and testosterone, I dont know if the nuts are not firing, or the pituitary is not sending the signal.
> 
> Now, one could just do a traditional PCT of HCG, clomid, and nolva and probably do fine.
> 
> Now, you have many options here.
> 
> 1.) A dutch endo doc uses 65mg of testosterone a week and has his guys take a tab of nolva and over months time they recover slowly with no crash as androgens are in the mix.
> 
> 2.) go on a short cycle feel better, use lowish doses of non suppressive compounds, then do an aggressive PCT.
> 
> 3.) Do an aggressive PCT and recover, then in the future keep the cycles shorter using non suppressive compounds.


So what compounds do you consider non suppressive? I'm wanting to do a run of NPP which is a nandrolone which typically is suppressive. I know it's not as suppressive as other nandrolone's. Do you think i'm safe with NPP? I will be getting my blood work back this week to find out my test levels but I don't think the blood work included the LH/FSH. :/

Can you give an example of an aggressive PCT you would recommend to run after this cycle considering my circumstances? 2500iu hcg EOD for 8 jabs? 30 days clomid and 45 days nolva?


----------



## hackskii

markluv said:


> So what compounds do you consider non suppressive? I'm wanting to do a run of NPP which is a nandrolone which typically is suppressive. I know it's not as suppressive as other nandrolone's. Do you think i'm safe with NPP? I will be getting my blood work back this week to find out my test levels but I don't think the blood work included the LH/FSH. :/
> 
> Can you give an example of an aggressive PCT you would recommend to run after this cycle considering my circumstances? 2500iu hcg EOD for 8 jabs? 30 days clomid and 45 days nolva?


The aggressive one you suggested is the one I would use.

The drugs that are fairly tame on the HPTA would be stuff like primo, anavar, low dose dbol, etc.

You wont see monster gains but recovery will be easy as long as the doses are not sick and not months on end.

Short cycles would be ok too, but if you shut down hard, leave the 19-nor steroids alone.


----------



## markluv

hackskii said:


> The aggressive one you suggested is the one I would use.
> 
> The drugs that are fairly tame on the HPTA would be stuff like primo, anavar, low dose dbol, etc.
> 
> You wont see monster gains but recovery will be easy as long as the doses are not sick and not months on end.
> 
> Short cycles would be ok too, but if you shut down hard, leave the 19-nor steroids alone.


I received my test results back and my test is at 456. They did not measure LH/FSH unfortunately. I'm 27 years old, is this a good number for me being at 456? Also I haven't had much of a sex drive even though my test levels are at 456. What would you suggest to fix this? Do you think a 30 day dose of clomid and 45 days of Nolva would raise me up to say 600? Also possibly fix my sex drive?


----------



## hackskii

markluv said:


> I received my test results back and my test is at 456. They did not measure LH/FSH unfortunately. I'm 27 years old, is this a good number for me being at 456? Also I haven't had much of a sex drive even though my test levels are at 456. What would you suggest to fix this? Do you think a 30 day dose of clomid and 45 days of Nolva would raise me up to say 600? Also possibly fix my sex drive?


Well, considering the range is 320 to 960 you are within range.

Depending on the lab, the numbers I just gave will slide one way or the other.

You are well within range so nuts are firing.

21 days clomid @ 100mg probably if anything would bump that up.

But, if that test was not taken in the early morning, then you number would have been higher earlier in the day.

If that was afternoon then by all means you are totally within normal range.


----------



## MrWibble

Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.

How do you know they're producing it on their own and when to stop hcg? Or just continue using the 6 shots of hcg


----------



## hackskii

MrWibble said:


> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> How do you know they're producing it on their own and when to stop hcg? Or just continue using the 6 shots of hcg


Blood work would be my first choice.

The SERMS will fire the pituitary to keep the rest of the HPTA working.


----------



## superdude

Hi Guys and many thanks hackskii for this awesome thread!

Im just doing my first experiment with steroids, a 10 week cycle (started last monday) on 40mg STANOL (tabs, Body Research) and 25mg PROVIRON (tabs, Schering) with the main aim of getting rid of water retention and getting more muscle definition (gaining really isnt my priority at this time)

My mate just asked me what am I using for PCT after this 10 weeks, and I honestly didnt know if I needed PCT at all (because I didnt think that the stuff Im taking is interfering with my body's test production) Then again, Im a complete beginner, so I would really appreciate if you could tell me whats your take on this. Will I need PCT at all? And if yes, do you suggest the the Clomid/Novaldex combo as per original post?

Thanks heaps


----------



## hackskii

superdude said:


> Hi Guys and many thanks hackskii for this awesome thread!
> 
> Im just doing my first experiment with steroids, a 10 week cycle (started last monday) on 40mg STANOL (tabs, Body Research) and 25mg PROVIRON (tabs, Schering) with the main aim of getting rid of water retention and getting more muscle definition (gaining really isnt my priority at this time)
> 
> My mate just asked me what am I using for PCT after this 10 weeks, and I honestly didnt know if I needed PCT at all (because I didnt think that the stuff Im taking is interfering with my body's test production) Then again, Im a complete beginner, so I would really appreciate if you could tell me whats your take on this. Will I need PCT at all? And if yes, do you suggest the the Clomid/Novaldex combo as per original post?
> 
> Thanks heaps


You will need to space those out during the day.

To be honest I don't think you will be all that happy with a 40mg winny cycle for 10 weeks.

Clomid at 100mg ED for 3 weeks and nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks should be ok.

But then again that all depends.

I don't like oral only cycles and especially winny, but that is just me.


----------



## superdude

hackskii said:


> You will need to space those out during the day.
> 
> To be honest I don't think you will be all that happy with a 40mg winny cycle for 10 weeks.
> 
> Clomid at 100mg ED for 3 weeks and nolva at 20mg for 4 weeks should be ok.
> 
> But then again that all depends.
> 
> I don't like oral only cycles and especially winny, but that is just me.


cheers bud, much appreciated!

i space the winnie out 4x10mg (mid-dayish, pre-wo, post-wo, bedtime) and i take 1 tab proviron first thing in the morning. so far so good, do you think it's ok like this?

also, what do you mean 10weeks winnie not being too good? is it too long? or should i be stacking it with other than proviron as well?

sorry about the non-PCT questions.

and back on the subject of PCT thanks again, i'll be getting the clomid and nolva well in advance then to be on the safe side. if say my cycle finished on a sunday, do i crack on with this clomid/nolva combo from monday onwards? or do i pause for a week and then crack on withi it?

cheeers


----------



## rickywald

Hi guys. Been reading the thread and have found some very helpful information. I'm just coming to the end of my first cycle running 500mg test enanthate weeks 1-12 and 50mg winstrol weeks 8-12. I have plenty of nolva and clomid and 5000iu of hcg. I just wanted to clarify on how much HCG i should be taking because i think i'll probably need more after reading this thread. i was gonna take 500iu for 10days on the trot. any help would be really appreciated, thanks in advance. ricky


----------



## superdude

oh and one more thing, what part of the day would you say its best to take nolva? does it matter if its pre or post WO? cheers


----------



## hackskii

superdude said:


> cheers bud, much appreciated!
> 
> i space the winnie out 4x10mg (mid-dayish, pre-wo, post-wo, bedtime) and i take 1 tab proviron first thing in the morning. so far so good, do you think it's ok like this?
> 
> also, what do you mean 10weeks winnie not being too good? is it too long? or should i be stacking it with other than proviron as well?
> 
> sorry about the non-PCT questions.
> 
> and back on the subject of PCT thanks again, i'll be getting the clomid and nolva well in advance then to be on the safe side. if say my cycle finished on a sunday, do i crack on with this clomid/nolva combo from monday onwards? or do i pause for a week and then crack on withi it?
> 
> cheeers


You can start your PCT same day as last tab of winny, half life is like 8 hours so no big deal there.



rickywald said:


> Hi guys. Been reading the thread and have found some very helpful information. I'm just coming to the end of my first cycle running 500mg test enanthate weeks 1-12 and 50mg winstrol weeks 8-12. I have plenty of nolva and clomid and 5000iu of hcg. I just wanted to clarify on how much HCG i should be taking because i think i'll probably need more after reading this thread. i was gonna take 500iu for 10days on the trot. any help would be really appreciated, thanks in advance. ricky


I would have run 500iu twice a week throughout.

Probably will need more HCG there.

500iu ED wont be the best way to take that, probably would be better to just do one shot of 5000iu with the clomid and nolva.

If you are shut down low dose HCG wont be too effective and it will lengthen recovery longer.



superdude said:


> oh and one more thing, what part of the day would you say its best to take nolva? does it matter if its pre or post WO? cheers


Makes no difference, you pick.


----------



## superdude

Cheers Scoot!

Can you tell me what did you mean by "40mg of winny for 10 weeks isnt going to make happy at all" earlier? Is it the duration or the dose? Or would you stack it with something other than Proviron as well? Cheers


----------



## hackskii

superdude said:


> Cheers Scoot!
> 
> Can you tell me what did you mean by "40mg of winny for 10 weeks isnt going to make happy at all" earlier? Is it the duration or the dose? Or would you stack it with something other than Proviron as well? Cheers


Winny is winstrol, and at 40mg you probably wont be all that happy with it, winstol is nothing that I would suggest taking by itself, stacking it with proviron wont do much either, proviron is not for gaining muscle.

Might want to move that to 6 weeks at 57mg ED.


----------



## rickywald

thanks for the reply mate. its been nine days since my last jab of test, i had some winnie left over so will finish that on sunday, how many days shall i wait after finishing the winnie to take the 5000iu of hcg and shall i follow the clomid for 30 days and nolva for 45 days protocol as explained at the beginning of the thread. cheers


----------



## hackskii

For winstrol same day, for the shot, it depends on the ester and the amount you used.

Without knowing what it was it would be impossible to say.

11 days for 250 test E would be ok, but not for 500mg for instance.


----------



## rickywald

i ran 250mg twice a week. I finish winstrol on sunday so will take the 5000iu then cos it'll be 11 days since my last shot of test enanthate...and ill start the nolva and clomid same day. thanks for the help, much appreciated


----------



## hackskii

rickywald said:


> i ran 250mg twice a week. I finish winstrol on sunday so will take the 5000iu then cos it'll be 11 days since my last shot of test enanthate...and ill start the nolva and clomid same day. thanks for the help, much appreciated


Tecnically it will be more than 11 days, closer to 2 weeks and could be a bit longer than that.

I would wait another week or like 6 days.


----------



## Virus75

This is my first time when I take HCG in small amounts during the cycle.

My cycle is:

week 1-5 Dbol 30mg/day

week 1-5 Sustanol 300 600mg/week

week 1-5 Tren E 300mg/week

week 6-15 Sustanol 300 900mg/week

week 6-15 Tren E 450mg/week

week 3-15 Hcg 1000mg/week

week 1-15 Proviron 25mg/day

Is that not to long to take 1000mg/week HCG for 12 weeks ?

Do I have to wait 2 weeks with PCT after the last testosterone jab?

My PCT plan is:

Nolva at 20mg for 30 days

Clomid at 50mg twice a day for 30 days.

Any help would be much appreciated,

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

I take it then it is 900mg sustanon?

If so that will take a month to clear, run the HCG till the gear clears, then start your PCT.

Sustanol is a male enhancement ED over the counter supplement.


----------



## tom1234

Going to be starting PCT in a few weeks, will be doing the following protocol:

Days 1-16 - 2500IU HCG EOD

Days 1-30 - 100mg Clomid per Day

Days 1-45 - 20mg Nolvadex per Day

Days 1-30 - ZMA before Bed

Days 1-30 - 1000IU Vit E per day

Days 1-30 - 5000IU Vit D per day

Anything else needed? Be on for 6 months, Test 400 1gram, 600mg Bold for 3 months. Then 1.5ml 225mg Rip blend EOD last 3 months, with Winni 60mg per day last 6 weeks of cycle. Aromasin has been run at 12.5mg ED for majority of cycle and Cabergoline 0.25mg EOD when started Rip Blend because of Tren.


----------



## hackskii

tom1234 said:


> Going to be starting PCT in a few weeks, will be doing the following protocol:
> 
> Days 1-16 - 2500IU HCG EOD
> 
> Days 1-30 - 100mg Clomid per Day
> 
> Days 1-45 - 20mg Nolvadex per Day
> 
> Days 1-30 - ZMA before Bed
> 
> Days 1-30 - 1000IU Vit E per day
> 
> Days 1-30 - 5000IU Vit D per day
> 
> Anything else needed? Be on for 6 months, Test 400 1gram, 600mg Bold for 3 months. Then 1.5ml 225mg Rip blend EOD last 3 months, with Winni 60mg per day last 6 weeks of cycle. Aromasin has been run at 12.5mg ED for majority of cycle and Cabergoline 0.25mg EOD when started Rip Blend because of Tren.


You probably would do well with DHEA @ 20/25mg ED, I would add 1 cod liver a day to that as well.

20mg Boron a day would not hurt either.


----------



## Virus75

hackskii said:


> I take it then it is 900mg sustanon?
> 
> If so that will take a month to clear, run the HCG till the gear clears, then start your PCT.
> 
> Sustanol is a male enhancement ED over the counter supplement.


Thanks for your help.

I miss-wrote the Tren E, it's 200mg/ml so I take 400ml/week.

I got no time to wait 1 month for PCT. I decided to change my cycle:

week 1-5 Dbol (Methanaxin) 30 mg/day

week 1-15 Sustanol 300 (Sustanaxin) 600 mg/week

week 1-10 Tren E (Trenonaxin E) 400 mg/week

week 3-17 Hcg 1000 IU/week

week 1-15 Proviron (Provibol) 25 mg/day

My PCT plan is:

Nolva at 20mg for 30 days

Clomid at 50mg twice a day for 30 days.

Is this cycle+PCT sounds better?


----------



## hackskii

Looks better but the sust wont be clear 2 weeks though.

I would run the nolva a bit longer too.


----------



## Virus75

hackskii said:


> Looks better but the sust wont be clear 2 weeks though.
> 
> I would run the nolva a bit longer too.


I'm :scared: to wait a month between cycle and PCT. This is my first time with sustanon, on my next cycle I go back to tri-test.

Nolva for 45 days ? Is it 20mg/day enough?


----------



## hackskii

Virus75 said:


> I'm :scared: to wait a month between cycle and PCT. This is my first time with sustanon, on my next cycle I go back to tri-test.
> 
> Nolva for 45 days ? Is it 20mg/day enough?


20mg is enough.

Why scared?


----------



## Virus75

hackskii said:


> 20mg is enough.
> 
> Why scared?


I should say I'm afraid a little bit.

I think, longer to be on gear is harder to recover properly.

Good to know my 15 weeks cycle actualy 20 weeks+ PCT :lol:

I did cycle with Tri Test with 2 weeks brake between cycle and PCT.


----------



## khanny

What pct would I need to run for a 15week deca 20week test cycle? I Was oready shut down from a tren and test cycle witch lasted 10week and didn't not do a pct was bein stupid I hav nova and clomid also 20.00iu of hcg can u tell me the best way I can do my pct thank you


----------



## hackskii

khanny said:


> What pct would I need to run for a 15week deca 20week test cycle? I Was oready shut down from a tren and test cycle witch lasted 10week and didn't not do a pct was bein stupid I hav nova and clomid also 20.00iu of hcg can u tell me the best way I can do my pct thank you


Run the power PCT.

But, that cycle you ran already being shut down, and for the length of time, 20000iu HCG might not be enough.

Probably get you close though.

Your recovery may take some time.


----------



## khanny

Ok thanks will get more hcg if needed


----------



## ckmate

Hi mate

what do you recommend for a first cycle ever? I have been training for a year almost 5-6 days a week for around 2-3 hours including cardio. I want to bulk up and keep the gain but I do not want to be on a long cycle as I am diabetic, and 44 years old. Any input is helpful. thanks and a great article by the way. Joe.


----------



## hackskii

ckmate said:


> Hi mate
> 
> what do you recommend for a first cycle ever? I have been training for a year almost 5-6 days a week for around 2-3 hours including cardio. I want to bulk up and keep the gain but I do not want to be on a long cycle as I am diabetic, and 44 years old. Any input is helpful. thanks and a great article by the way. Joe.


Well, something simple like a testosterone only cycle at around 400 to 500mg a week, or even a dbol only cycle would be fine.

You probably wont need alot of things if you keep it short and simple.

- - - Updated - - -



ckmate said:


> Hi mate
> 
> what do you recommend for a first cycle ever? I have been training for a year almost 5-6 days a week for around 2-3 hours including cardio. I want to bulk up and keep the gain but I do not want to be on a long cycle as I am diabetic, and 44 years old. Any input is helpful. thanks and a great article by the way. Joe.


Well, something simple like a testosterone only cycle at around 400 to 500mg a week, or even a dbol only cycle would be fine.

You probably wont need alot of things if you keep it short and simple.


----------



## PACEY

Thinking about doing a cycle at the end of the year, but want to have everything sorted before i start. Was going to do 12 weeks of test e (probably cidotestone) 500 - 750mg week with a dbol or anavar kick start. Pct would be 100mg clomid ed and 20mg nolva ed for 4 weeks.

Would i be right in thinking 500iu twice a week during cycle (weeks 2 - 12) would be enough? Will also will run adex at 0.5mg eod

Thanks for the help


----------



## hackskii

PACEY said:


> Thinking about doing a cycle at the end of the year, but want to have everything sorted before i start. Was going to do 12 weeks of test e (probably cidotestone) 500 - 750mg week with a dbol or anavar kick start. Pct would be 100mg clomid ed and 20mg nolva ed for 4 weeks.
> 
> Would i be right in thinking 500iu twice a week during cycle (weeks 2 - 12) would be enough? Will also will run adex at 0.5mg eod
> 
> Thanks for the help


Perfect, keep the dose for the gear at 500, you will grow anyway.


----------



## PACEY

hackskii said:


> Perfect, keep the dose for the gear at 500, you will grow anyway.


Thanks for the reply hackskii,

very informative thread you started, reps


----------



## NO-IDEA

Hi Hacks, im currently on the power pct, got a journal up on the aas section. Recently i've been reading further on the doses etc of hcg, and many are saying hcg should be injected every 3-4 days as hcg causes a second spike of test which is more prominent 3 days after the initial injection, meaning every two days is pointless? also do you still maintain the 20 mg of nolva safeguards the testes from desensitization issues? i don't fancy being permanently damaged lol

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

NO-IDEA said:


> Hi Hacks, im currently on the power pct, got a journal up on the aas section. Recently i've been reading further on the doses etc of hcg, and many are saying hcg should be injected every 3-4 days as hcg causes a second spike of test which is more prominent 3 days after the initial injection, meaning every two days is pointless? also do you still maintain the 20 mg of nolva safeguards the testes from desensitization issues? i don't fancy being permanently damaged lol
> 
> Thanks


Its not pointless, and 20mg is enough to protect the nuts.


----------



## NO-IDEA

hackskii said:


> Its not pointless, and 20mg is enough to protect the nuts.


Thanks hackskii, apologies i let my mind get the better of me sometimes. To much thinking, I Will keep everything as the protocol suggests.

Thanks again.


----------



## Kwaine

Hackskii..............GREAT INFO..........Cant thank you enough for sharing........Trying to get in with DR John...

I live miles away from him.....can he help if your o/seas?.....my current endos and doctors just dont get the whole picture.


----------



## hackskii

Kwaine said:


> Hackskii..............GREAT INFO..........Cant thank you enough for sharing........Trying to get in with DR John...
> 
> I live miles away from him.....can he help if your o/seas?.....my current endos and doctors just dont get the whole picture.


What do you need help with?


----------



## Kwaine

hackskii said:


> What do you need help with?


Have had three sets of blood work done this year .........last set came back with 1 n/ml test...........my head is all over the shop and body feels like concrete......endo has started me on Reandron 1000mg . 3 shots 1 every 5 weeks i am at week 9 and will return for next blood work in three weeks......My last Cycle when powerlifting was 2004......I suspect I have been run down for a long time .....my Endo is for ever asking me am I taking anything now as he can't understand why my muscle mass is relatively high with such low test......nor can I....so endo and doctors very sus on me......I have taken nothing since 2004....other than general sups protein etc....I am feeling a little better....am I stuck on TRT forever????......your info suggests there is a lot of other things that can be done .....I also want to get my sex drive back ??????? .......


----------



## hackskii

Kwaine said:


> Have had three sets of blood work done this year .........last set came back with 1 n/ml test...........my head is all over the shop and body feels like concrete......endo has started me on Reandron 1000mg . 3 shots 1 every 5 weeks i am at week 9 and will return for next blood work in three weeks......My last Cycle when powerlifting was 2004......I suspect I have been run down for a long time .....my Endo is for ever asking me am I taking anything now as he can't understand why my muscle mass is relatively high with such low test......nor can I....so endo and doctors very sus on me......I have taken nothing since 2004....other than general sups protein etc....I am feeling a little better....am I stuck on TRT forever????......your info suggests there is a lot of other things that can be done .....I also want to get my sex drive back ??????? .......


Oh my, thats sad.

Well, if you have not used any gear since 2004 then sadly you probably will be on TRT forever.

Your libido should come back once you put your testosterone and estrogen within range, but there could be other things going on that potentially are disrupting your other hormones, like estrogen, prolactin, thyroid, etc.


----------



## Kwaine

hackskii said:


> Oh my, thats sad.
> 
> Well, if you have not used any gear since 2004 then sadly you probably will be on TRT forever.
> 
> Your libido should come back once you put your testosterone and estrogen within range, but there could be other things going on that potentially are disrupting your other hormones, like estrogen, prolactin, thyroid, etc.


Thanks ......would like to a least try DR john reboot protocol........as not sure if something else has interfered with my HTPA.....noticed you made comment about not taking Tribulas so was wondering if this may have effected current results???Guess just grasping at straws but would like to get a more scientific answer on things...........i have clearly left way to long to get a check up but running a manufacturing business in these times my focus has been on other things......What are your thoughts on my situation?......will DR JOHN be able to help me ????...based so far away???....is there any chance of sperm and reproduction???....appreciate your time and thoughts


----------



## hackskii

Kwaine said:


> Thanks ......would like to a least try DR john reboot protocol........as not sure if something else has interfered with my HTPA.....noticed you made comment about not taking Tribulas so was wondering if this may have effected current results???Guess just grasping at straws but would like to get a more scientific answer on things...........i have clearly left way to long to get a check up but running a manufacturing business in these times my focus has been on other things......What are your thoughts on my situation?......will DR JOHN be able to help me ????...based so far away???....is there any chance of sperm and reproduction???....appreciate your time and thoughts


I would get full labs now, just to see where you are at with everything.

Do it first thing in the morning.

You could have something else going on here, so the restart would be if something else is not interfering with your testosterone levels.

Hell, even cortisol could be high.


----------



## Kwaine

hackskii said:


> I would get full labs now, just to see where you are at with everything.
> 
> Do it first thing in the morning.
> 
> You could have something else going on here, so the restart would be if something else is not interfering with your testosterone levels.
> 
> Hell, even cortisol could be high.


Got it will do.....have blood test booked in for (12/11/12).......my last labs are10/7/12 at 10 am are as follows FSH 3.3 IU/L,LH 1.3 IU/L, OESTRADIOL 64 pmol/L,test 2 nmol/L,SHBG 14 nmol/,free testo 52.95 pmol/L, DHEAS 4.5 umol...........previous tests this year 5/7/12 show TSH 1.49 mIU/L,IGF-1 22nmol.....labs 10/7/12 cortisol 406nmol/L think range for this is 138-690 .....other points of interest Fertin levels high and cholestrol 6.4 nmol which is high LDL 5.4nmol while HDL .32nmol..........i am trying to stay with my Endo in meantime until next LABS .......Trying to stay with one strategy for moment and open to your thoughts??


----------



## hackskii

Can you post the reference ranges for me please?

Put them side by side please.

Here in the states the testosterone would look like this, and 10:00 in the late morning could look to be a bit low with that timing.

Testosterone: 320/960


----------



## benki11

Kwaine said:


> Got it will do.....have blood test booked in for (12/11/12).......my last labs are10/7/12 at 10 am are as follows FSH 3.3 IU/L,LH 1.3 IU/L, OESTRADIOL 64 pmol/L,test 2 nmol/L,SHBG 14 nmol/,free testo 52.95 pmol/L, DHEAS 4.5 umol...........previous tests this year 5/7/12 show TSH 1.49 mIU/L,IGF-1 22nmol.....labs 10/7/12 cortisol 406nmol/L think range for this is 138-690 .....other points of interest Fertin levels high and cholestrol 6.4 nmol which is high LDL 5.4nmol while HDL .32nmol..........i am trying to stay with my Endo in meantime until next LABS .......Trying to stay with one strategy for moment and open to your thoughts??


you said last cycle 2004 and how long did you use before 2004 ,how many ,what,and had you blood tests done in between 2004 -2011 ever?


----------



## PeterPann

Hello, hackskii! I have a quick question. Whats your opinion on a rule "time on+pct=time off"? I apologize for hijacking, but I thought its kind of related to pct...

so here is a situation. I had 10 weeks test cycle, then 2 weeks off, then 6 weeks pct, then another 4 weeks off. I had a blood test 2 weeks after pct and results were even better than I expected.

Before cycle my test level was 416, after is 968. So does it mean that Im fully recovered and can start another cycle; or I have to follow the "rule" and wait another 14 weeks???

thanks.


----------



## hackskii

PeterPann said:


> Hello, hackskii! I have a quick question. Whats your opinion on a rule "time on+pct=time off"? I apologize for hijacking, but I thought its kind of related to pct...
> 
> so here is a situation. I had 10 weeks test cycle, then 2 weeks off, then 6 weeks pct, then another 4 weeks off. I had a blood test 2 weeks after pct and results were even better than I expected.
> 
> Before cycle my test level was 416, after is 968. So does it mean that Im fully recovered and can start another cycle; or I have to follow the "rule" and wait another 14 weeks???
> 
> thanks.


Well, those numbers look good.

Only thing I can think of with the numbers being higher would be:

1. SERMS were still in the system skewing the test results.

2. you took your first test in the afternoon and the second test in the morning.

Yes you can have another cycle.


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> Well, those numbers look good.
> 
> Only thing I can think of with the numbers being higher would be:
> 
> 1. SERMS were still in the system skewing the test results.
> 
> 2. you took your first test in the afternoon and the second test in the morning.
> 
> Yes you can have another cycle.


1. half life of nolva is 5-7 days, i had my test 17 days after last administration.

2. both tests were taken in the morning

the only thing i can think of is that i have very low LH(2.4) and FSH(1.0) in a first test. and LH(5.3) and FSH(1.1) in the second test. I think it was something wrong with me while a first test. and the serms improved my LH. but fsh is still low and i have no idea what causes it.


----------



## Kwaine

Thanks for back up.....okay 2004 on for ten week mostly deca ,dianabol,proviron,,finished with some profasi think from memeroy 2500iu 3 shots......have had no blood work since or before 2004.......think test has been low for some time but with running business just put grumpiness down to stress.....all doctors told me its in my head......very frustrated as I know in myself it's not in my head.....all blood work started this year as finally physiatrist after nearly killing me with anti depressants, decided to test hormones which I had been screaming for from the start ....what doctors struggle with here is that my muscle size is still seemingly high, but to me I am

just fat compared to my normal base self.......test were as previous posted hacksii.....have just had more blood done this week ....


----------



## Kwaine

Thanks ...YEAH absoulty sorry about scrappy details......have just got new blood work done this week ....test is now high , Lh still very low and estrogen has also become high........on the plus side ferritin level have balanced in mid range and cholesterol nearly back to normal still a little high.....can post more details ??? If you had time???...booked into to see endo this Monday...body still aches but not as bad maybe 40 % better and sex drive still low ........have taken 3 shots of readron 1000mg 5 weeks apart.....will see what endo says but if he just says test for the rest of your life then I will seek out DR John.....can see there is a lot more to check....any of your thoughts are great appreciated.


----------



## Kwaine

benki11 said:


> you said last cycle 2004 and how long did you use before 2004 ,how many ,what,and had you blood tests done in between 2004 -2011 ever?


First post in response to above....will get my **** together ...sorry


----------



## Kwaine

hackskii said:


> Can you post the reference ranges for me please?
> 
> Put them side by side please.
> 
> Here in the states the testosterone would look like this, and 10:00 in the late morning could look to be a bit low with that timing.
> 
> Testosterone: 320/960


Sorry second reply to this quote....thanks


----------



## Sunbedjunky

Fanatastic post and wish i'd followed it 

Ran 1ml of one rip and an additional 50mg of test EOD for 8 weeks along with 25mg of proviron ED and 1000ius of HCG EOD

Came off gear, onto clomid/nolva - 150/60 day 1, 100/40 for next 10 days and then decided to take a 2500iu shot of hcg.

My libido had crashed and now stuck at what to do?

Was working like a champ until that additional HCG


----------



## hackskii

Kwaine said:


> Thanks ...YEAH absoulty sorry about scrappy details......have just got new blood work done this week ....test is now high , Lh still very low and estrogen has also become high........on the plus side ferritin level have balanced in mid range and cholesterol nearly back to normal still a little high.....can post more details ??? If you had time???...booked into to see endo this Monday...body still aches but not as bad maybe 40 % better and sex drive still low ........have taken 3 shots of readron 1000mg 5 weeks apart.....will see what endo says but if he just says test for the rest of your life then I will seek out DR John.....can see there is a lot more to check....any of your thoughts are great appreciated.


I think the dosing schedule of readron is once every 10 to 14 weeks or so.

Did he give you the shots every 5 weeks to ramp up testosterone levels?

LH, and FSH can be lowish and one still can have testosterone levels well within range due to leydig cell sensitivity.

Generally when men age their LH can go up yet testosterone levels decline, this is due to leydig cells becoming less sensitive, guess age has something to do with this.

I have seen very high LH levels and low end of normal for testosterone.

As long as testosterone is within range it matters not what LH is doing, it is still doing its job.


----------



## hackskii

Sunbedjunky said:


> Fanatastic post and wish i'd followed it
> 
> Ran 1ml of one rip and an additional 50mg of test EOD for 8 weeks along with 25mg of proviron ED and 1000ius of HCG EOD
> 
> Came off gear, onto clomid/nolva - 150/60 day 1, 100/40 for next 10 days and then decided to take a 2500iu shot of hcg.
> 
> My libido had crashed and now stuck at what to do?
> 
> Was working like a champ until that additional HCG


Either you worded that wrong or you said you did 1000iu HCG EOD during your cycle for 8 weeks?


----------



## Sunbedjunky

hackskii said:


> Either you worded that wrong or you said you did 1000iu HCG EOD during your cycle for 8 weeks?


Silly iphone!

It was 500iu's every other day and didn't start HCG till around week 3 and introduced it once i noticed my balls shrivel.

My libido was still high even at the end of my cycle and then the big shot of hcg killed it


----------



## hackskii

Sunbedjunky said:


> Silly iphone!
> 
> It was 500iu's every other day and didn't start HCG till around week 3 and introduced it once i noticed my balls shrivel.
> 
> My libido was still high even at the end of my cycle and then the big shot of hcg killed it


I am still not getting this.

You started HCG week 3 using 500iu EOD throughout your cycle?


----------



## Sunbedjunky

hackskii said:


> I am still not getting this.
> 
> You started HCG week 3 using 500iu EOD throughout your cycle?


I took 500ius on a Monday, then Thursday then Sunday so was approx 1500iu's every week for 5 weeks of HCG and it was throughout the remainder of my cycle.

I thought that would be sufficient to keep my balls volume up?


----------



## hackskii

Well, I would consider the clomid at 100mg ED for 2 weeks and 20mg nolva ED for 3 weeks.

I take it you were using nolva and clomid when you did the big shot of 2500iu HCG?

You probably didn't need that big shot of HCG running 1500iu HCG a week for 5 weeks.


----------



## Sunbedjunky

hackskii said:


> Well, I would consider the clomid at 100mg ED for 2 weeks and 20mg nolva ED for 3 weeks.
> 
> I take it you were using nolva and clomid when you did the big shot of 2500iu HCG?
> 
> You probably didn't need that big shot of HCG running 1500iu HCG a week for 5 weeks.


Yeh mate was taking clomid and nolva for 7 days at 100/40 and tem decided in all my wisdom to do a big shot of HCG at 2500ius. Been running 100/400 for last 5 days since then and still have 2500ius of hcg in fridge.

Do you think continue on with clomid and nolva?

Swear in one week mu libido crashed and cannot maintain an erection. Was planning on introducing proviron, what are your thoughts mate?

Thanks again for your advice pal


----------



## hackskii

100/400?

Man, drop the nolva down to 20mg max, you do not need any more than that.

You can run the clomid at 100mg ED though.

Probably due to some estrogenic sides or something from the HCG.


----------



## Sunbedjunky

hackskii said:


> 100/400?
> 
> Man, drop the nolva down to 20mg max, you do not need any more than that.
> 
> You can run the clomid at 100mg ED though.
> 
> Probably due to some estrogenic sides or something from the HCG.


No worries so from tomorrow 20mg of nolva and then will i split clomid dosage say 50mg morning and 50mg at night???


----------



## Sunbedjunky

Sorry it was 100/40 split and would you advice running proviron along with the 100/20?


----------



## Kwaine

hackskii said:


> I think the dosing schedule of readron is once every 10 to 14 weeks or so.
> 
> Did he give you the shots every 5 weeks to ramp up testosterone levels?
> 
> LH, and FSH can be lowish and one still can have testosterone levels well within range due to leydig cell sensitivity.
> 
> Generally when men age their LH can go up yet testosterone levels decline, this is due to leydig cells becoming less sensitive, guess age has something to do with this.
> 
> I have seen very high LH levels and low end of normal for testosterone.
> 
> As long as testosterone is within range it matters not what LH is doing, it is still doing its job.


Yes i think that was exactly endo thoughts to get test levels up ASAP.

First testosterone level was 2 ranges(9.9-27.80) and recent test i am now at 42.74.

Free testosterone. Now at 739 range (170-500)

LH is now at .1 range is(3-10)

FSH is now at .2. Range(1.5-9.7)

SHGB is now at 40 range (17-66)

Estradiol. Is now at 321.3. Range (28-156).

What I have noticed is my mental state I have become a lot calmer and more centered....however my body is still very stiff plus sex drive still low......Is this as good as it gets?????


----------



## ellis.ben

Just what i needed to hear! Thanks 4 the info dude! Coldn't of come at a better time! I owe you one mate thanks alot! =)


----------



## ellis.ben

SD said:


> OKay gonna try to explain the PCT protocol another way:
> 
> You have just finished your 6-12 week course of AAS, be it an oral only, or a test+oral. test+oral+anabolic.
> 
> At this point in time your nuts have gone to sleep, the artificial test in your system was detected by your brain who mistakingly thought your nuts were working too hard and shut that test factory down.
> 
> Well now you have finished adding in all that artificial testosterone and you want a break from AAS so you are going to try to restore your natural test with a PCT protocol.
> 
> YOu wait the required clearance times for the drugs you have taken, usually around two weeks, then begin.
> 
> Hacks protocol is this:
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days
> 
> The HCG will fool your nuts into thinking the brain is telling them to wake up and start producing test again, this is good but when the HCG shots stop, your brain will still not be convinced and wont take over giving the orders, so at the same time you have to convince your brain that it needs to tell your nuts to carry on the good work ok?
> 
> This is where Nolva and Clomid come in, combined, these two compounds tell the brain its ok to start ordering the nuts around and to get on with it ASAP. So for the 16 days you are taking HCG, you are also taking clomid and nolva in the hope that by the time the HCG shots run out, your brain will be suitably convinced to take over the role of telling your nuts what to do.
> 
> Thing is, your brain isn't quite ready to wing it alone at that point so you actually continue the clomid and nolva, gently withdrawing them for a total of 30 & 45 days.
> 
> By the end of the 45 days your nuts should be producing ntaural test again and your brain should be giving the orders with no chemical input from you.
> 
> hth
> 
> SD


Awsome info dude! Really well eplained an just what i needed 2 hear =) thanks alot bud.

P.S Awsome legs bye the way!!


----------



## dominimo

@Kwaine- this is hacksii's thread about PCT whereas your comments are about your own TRT protocol and prognosis sort of thing. perhaps a separate thread would be best for you. in the TRT section.

your history , as you have put it:

good cycle back in 2004.

no AAS since then.

fairly muscular to the non PL & non BB crowd ( especially to the endo and other docs) but you consider yourself to be fat or smooth in our world.

drug: reandron TU 1000 mg / 10-14 weeks. slow injection deep into gluteal.

Thus far:

3 injections at 5 week intervals, starting ............. of 1000 mg each injection.

to ramp up apparently.

Questions for you , as I can't figure out what your situation is and I am somewhat interested.

When was your first shot?

Given the numbers that you have posted , I am thinking that your second blood work would be done 4-6 weeks post injection.

Do I have the dates correct?

your age?

When did you say that you started to feel 'off'?

you say you were a bit stressed out and put it off to work related issues.

was there any other issues/events going on in your life that most people would define as being 'stress inducing'?

< "have taken 3 shots of readron 1000mg 5 weeks apart"> K; got it. it was easy to find. my apologies..

Maybe your answers are somewhere in there somewhere, I am having a difficult time reading stuff this morning.

I tried to summarize your comments in this table.

Morning blood work. 1000H

may 7 2012 blood work / October 7 2012 / reference range

First testosterone: 2 . / 42.74. / 9.9-27.80

Free testosterone. 52.9 / 739 ......./ 170-500

LH :................... 1.3.. / .1.........../ 3-10

FSH : .................3.3 ../ .2. ........./ 1.5-9.7

SHGB : ...............14 ../.. 40........./ 17-66

Estradiol: ............64.. / 321.3. ...../....28-156

Cortisol:.............406.../.............../ 138-690

TSH...................1. ..../

prolactin..................../

SHBG.................?...../.....40........./...17-66


----------



## Kwaine

dominimo said:


> @Kwaine- this is hacksii's thread about PCT whereas your comments are about your own TRT protocol and prognosis sort of thing. perhaps a separate thread would be best for you. in the TRT section.
> 
> your history , as you have put it:
> 
> good cycle back in 2004.
> 
> no AAS since then.
> 
> fairly muscular to the non PL & non BB crowd ( especially to the endo and other docs) but you consider yourself to be fat or smooth in our world.
> 
> drug: reandron TU 1000 mg / 10-14 weeks. slow injection deep into gluteal.
> 
> Thus far:
> 
> 3 injections at 5 week intervals, starting ............. of 1000 mg each injection.
> 
> to ramp up apparently.
> 
> Questions for you , as I can't figure out what your situation is and I am somewhat interested.
> 
> When was your first shot?
> 
> Given the numbers that you have posted , I am thinking that your second blood work would be done 4-6 weeks post injection.
> 
> Do I have the dates correct?
> 
> your age?
> 
> When did you say that you started to feel 'off'?
> 
> you say you were a bit stressed out and put it off to work related issues.
> 
> was there any other issues/events going on in your life that most people would define as being 'stress inducing'?
> 
> < "have taken 3 shots of readron 1000mg 5 weeks apart"> K; got it. it was easy to find. my apologies..
> 
> Maybe your answers are somewhere in there somewhere, I am having a difficult time reading stuff this morning.
> 
> I tried to summarize your comments in this table.
> 
> Morning blood work. 1000H
> 
> may 7 2012 blood work / October 7 2012 / reference range
> 
> First testosterone: 2 . / 42.74. / 9.9-27.80
> 
> Free testosterone. 52.9 / 739 ......./ 170-500
> 
> LH :................... 1.3.. / .1.........../ 3-10
> 
> FSH : .................3.3 ../ .2. ........./ 1.5-9.7
> 
> SHGB : ...............14 ../.. 40........./ 17-66
> 
> Estradiol: ............64.. / 321.3. ...../....28-156
> 
> Cortisol:.............406.../.............../ 138-690
> 
> TSH...................1. ..../
> 
> prolactin..................../
> 
> SHBG.................?...../.....40........./...17-66


okay good point ....didnt mean to hijack thread .......just tired of doctors here and very frustrated as i can see a way out of my situation just need a bit of help from good and informed people like Hacksii.......hacksii has great info and i am gratefull so will move off this thread.........


----------



## no-way

Seems like the boys are fully back in the game after my SD cycle... PCT finished 10 days ago and it seems ive got my libido back! (praise the lord) :lol:

Now for my test cycle, COME ON JANUARY HURRY UP! haha


----------



## UKlifts

Have i missed the boat of posting my cycle and asking for advice in this thread? Have not yet started a cycle, would rather be fully clued up before i do.


----------



## hackskii

UKlifts said:


> Have i missed the boat of posting my cycle and asking for advice in this thread? Have not yet started a cycle, would rather be fully clued up before i do.


Read the sticky first.


----------



## dominimo

Kwaine said:


> okay good point ....didnt mean to hijack thread .......just tired of doctors here and very frustrated as i can see a way out of my situation just need a bit of help from good and informed people like Hacksii.......hacksii has great info and i am gratefull so will move off this thread.........


well, it is not my thread either.

having said that,

I think he can follow your comments easier if you post a new thread and then hashmark Hackskii and whoever else , in order to get their opinion on what to do. @hackskii @Kwaine @dominimo

for ease of reading, make a small chart.

try to make sure that all your blood work was taken at close to the same time. or put the time that you had the bloods done along with the date it was taken.

..................date........date.....date.....date...

Total Testo

Free Testo

e2

prolactin

cortisol.

LH

FSH.

etc

etc

marker 1

marker 2

as for the frustration: i hear ya! it is amazing how little the doctors know about this stuff but in fairness, they rarely see this and have a lot of other things on their mind. as for the endos: well, even though the numbers of bodybuilders coming to see them may appear to be increasing, their normal patient list is usually people whose problem stem from something other than AAS use. And many endos believe that use is abuse and don't want to see their patients still lifting weights while on TRT as they see it as 'cheating'. and they can't understand our mindset- we see us as being 'fat' and out of shape- they see monsters and fitness freaks who are in tip top condition.

I have had endos tell me to my face " do you know how to tell when a bodybuilder is lying ?" me: "no, i don't. when or how can you tell? " his lips are moving."

I got rightly ****ed at that one but perhaps the endo is right : few patients tell the complete truth.

on here, there are several UK members who are on TRT yet up their intake " how about adding 200 mg per week ?" sort of thing.

and are trying to scam the system .

so, anyway,, maybe start a new thread as there seems to be a few people in here who are looking for help and you can get your answers immediately in your own thread.


----------



## ivan360

Hi Hackskii,

I recently finished my PCT from a 10 week sust cycle. How long should i wait till i can start another cycle? Thanks


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> I recently finished my PCT from a 10 week sust cycle. How long should i wait till i can start another cycle? Thanks


How long is a piece of string?

Its your call.


----------



## bail

Hackskii I'm planning on starting my pct soon, I've noticed that you've said to start hgc at the same time as other pct meds, which Is what I'm planning on doing, however I've noticed alot of forums saying to do your hgc at the tail end of your cycle and wait four days to start your pct, something to do with hcg being suppressive of other pct meds, I was wondering your take on this any input would be really helpful thanks


----------



## hackskii

bail said:


> Hackskii I'm planning on starting my pct soon, I've noticed that you've said to start hgc at the same time as other pct meds, which Is what I'm planning on doing, however I've noticed alot of forums saying to do your hgc at the tail end of your cycle and wait four days to start your pct, something to do with hcg being suppressive of other pct meds, I was wondering your take on this any input would be really helpful thanks


Well, my first choice is to run the HCG during the cycle, and till the gear clears, then drop it and add the SERMS.

If you have not run your HCG during, then you will need it in there somewhere, either at the end of the cycle, or during the PCT.

HCG restores testicular function and that is paramount to returning the HPTA, as the testicles take by far the longest to come back to life.

As for it being suppressive, don't use it and take up to a year to recover.


----------



## bail

Many thanks I'm gonna run it with my pct once the gear has cleared out my system sticking to your protocol of hgc clomid and tomixfen all togther


----------



## kettlebell

Hi Hackskii,

How up to date is the information in this thread? I have seen Mars posting about using HCG only once per week in another thread but I am uncertain as to its context.

How does Post cycle PCT differ from a doctor treating non AAS inflicted hypogonadism in an adult male?

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

kettlebell said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> How up to date is the information in this thread? I have seen Mars posting about using HCG only once per week in another thread but I am uncertain as to its context.
> 
> How does Post cycle PCT differ from a doctor treating non AAS inflicted hypogonadism in an adult male?
> 
> Thanks


Well, once or twice a week makes no difference.

It is the amount of iu that is important per week.

I like twice a week to keep estrogenic sides down.

Doctors do not treat non AAS inflicted hypogonadism unless it is a prolactin secreting tumor, or other types of elevated hormone related thing.

If you are primary or secondary acquired hypogonadism they treat you with TRT.


----------



## rasal

hey dude, read this and your other thread, alot of good info, think ive got a better idea of what needs to be done.

does this sound right?

Did a blast and cruise, first blast was test/deca, cruise, currently blasting test/tren/mast, but i need to come off becuase im going on holiday in a few months and wont be able to take any drugs taht will help me on my cruise.

After i finish my current blast planning on doing your otlined protocol (2500hcg eod for 8days, 45days nolva, 30 days clomid). Do you think that will help for my situation? Im assuming im very shut down. I was also thinking of adding some proviron for the first two weeks just for libido at 25-100mg.


----------



## hackskii

rasal said:


> hey dude, read this and your other thread, alot of good info, think ive got a better idea of what needs to be done.
> 
> does this sound right?
> 
> Did a blast and cruise, first blast was test/deca, cruise, currently blasting test/tren/mast, but i need to come off becuase im going on holiday in a few months and wont be able to take any drugs taht will help me on my cruise.
> 
> After i finish my current blast planning on doing your otlined protocol (2500hcg eod for 8days, 45days nolva, 30 days clomid). Do you think that will help for my situation? Im assuming im very shut down. I was also thinking of adding some proviron for the first two weeks just for libido at 25-100mg.


I doubt the proviron will help you with the shutdown, perhaps some of the sides of it but nothing for recovery.

You see one problem here is you blast, then you cruise on test, mast, and tren.

That is a cruise?

How much on that cruise were you taking?

Long cycles have their problems with recovery.


----------



## rasal

hackskii said:


> I doubt the proviron will help you with the shutdown, perhaps some of the sides of it but nothing for recovery.
> 
> You see one problem here is you blast, then you cruise on test, mast, and tren.
> 
> That is a cruise?
> 
> How much on that cruise were you taking?
> 
> Long cycles have their problems with recovery.


Sorry i phrased that wrong.

first baslt was test/deca

My cruise was test e 250mg/wk

the test,tren, mast is my second blast.

That was the intention of the proviron, nothing more. read that it doesnt supress and it will jus help with libido and jus eliminate some of the negative emotional feelings.

How long would do u think itll take to fully recover? Some people have told me upwards of a year


----------



## hackskii

Try the Power PCT and then go from there.

250mg a week is double over natty levels, so although you were on a cruise it really was a cycle and not only kept you shut down, probably suppressed some more.

There is debate whether proviron limits recovery post cycle when one is already shut down.

As for me, I personally would not use it during recovery as it offers nothing to aid, yet could hinder recovery some.

That is quite a debatable subject.


----------



## jackiechan

Hackskii,

Thanks for the great work.

What about low-dose TRT? Most men are doing 100mg/week and not doing any PCT. Would you recommend ongoing HCG as part of ongoing TRT to maintain fertility (e.g., 500iu 2x/week), or recommend going off the TRT every so often and doing a real PCT?


----------



## hackskii

jackiechan said:


> Hackskii,
> 
> Thanks for the great work.
> 
> What about low-dose TRT? Most men are doing 100mg/week and not doing any PCT. Would you recommend ongoing HCG as part of ongoing TRT to maintain fertility (e.g., 500iu 2x/week), or recommend going off the TRT every so often and doing a real PCT?


Why would one consider exogenous administration of testosterone, over endogenous testosterone?


----------



## jackiechan

This is the standard anti-aging protocol for testosterone replacement therapy. Are you suggesting that high-intensity efforts can do as good a job of raising test levels as TRT?


----------



## comp07974

If im just taking a course of DBOL for the first time is PCT necessary?


----------



## hackskii

jackiechan said:


> This is the standard anti-aging protocol for testosterone replacement therapy. Are you suggesting that high-intensity efforts can do as good a job of raising test levels as TRT?


I am aware of the standard anti-aging protocols, but if you think you can balance hormones as well as the body that is not going to happen.

One example is that testosterone, as well as other hormones rise and fall during the day, this is called the circadian rhythm.

TRT is constant blood levels of testosterone, and not mimicking endogenous production.

I was on TRT and was great for about 10 months, then I felt like crap and libido was way down.

TRT doses are still within normal range, if you are within normal range and do not have deficiencies in like zinc, magnesium, vitamin D, boron, and other vitamins/minerals, going on TRT will not change quality of life, in fact probably down the road compromise quality of life.

If you do not need TRT, then do not go on TRT, that is for life and most likely will shut you down over time.

Anti-aging is a bit more going on than just testosterone, some use HGH, an AI, DHEA, melatonin, and testosterone.

So I guess I really do not understand your point.

Were you diagnosed with hypogonadism?

If not then why do you want to go on TRT?

How old are you to think you need anti-aging treatments?

I hope you know that low androgens can be from some other cause.

Treating the symptom and not the cause is kind of putting the cart before the horse.

Even lack of sleep can cause low androgens, as well as excess aromititization, so even better sleep and fat loss will boost up testosterone levels.

Stress as well can lower testosterone levels, hell even the time of the test makes the range rather wide to faults.


----------



## hackskii

comp07974 said:


> If im just taking a course of DBOL for the first time is PCT necessary?


How long?

How much?

It depends.

6 week cycles with 30mg or less, PCT still would be a good idea to recover faster as to not lose gains while your levels are low coming off a cycle.


----------



## Richyk

nice thread mate, really helpfull just one thing though if you could help me out, im currently on a cycle of sust and deca, deca 400mg ew and sust 500mg ew. Im now into my sixth week and have only just been able to get my hands on some HCG now im running this course for 10 weeks alltogther. what amount of HCG and how frequently would you recommend i take from now until roughly 7 days before i start pct???


----------



## jackiechan

All good points. Yeah, I'm only talking about the TRT part of a full "anti-aging" protocol. I'm 45. Test levels were toward the low end (400 ng/dl, but I'd have to check records to confirm). The argument from the anti-aging crowd is that test diminishes with age, ceteris parabus, and controlling for all other issues so TRT seems to make sense. Of course exogenous attempts to balance out the vast range of hormones (and other biochemicals) will fail compared to the body's ability. Your recommendation, I gather, I not to do TRT. If you *do* have hypogonadism what would a recommended PCT be? Thanks!


----------



## comp07974

Im going to take a 6 week cycle of roughly 37.5mg ED. PCT Just seems a good way of keeping what i have worked for...


----------



## hackskii

Richyk said:


> nice thread mate, really helpfull just one thing though if you could help me out, im currently on a cycle of sust and deca, deca 400mg ew and sust 500mg ew. Im now into my sixth week and have only just been able to get my hands on some HCG now im running this course for 10 weeks alltogther. what amount of HCG and how frequently would you recommend i take from now until roughly 7 days before i start pct???


Well, you will need around 15000iu to recover your nuts, you can start now, and wait a month after last jab to do your PCT, and could even use some HCG in your PCT.

Many options here.

One would be to shoot 2500iu twice a week while the gear is clearing for a month, use 20mg nolva ED, then after the 20,000iu HCG is gone, add clomid at 100mg ED, for 3 to 4 weeks, and keep the nolva in there at 20mg for another 4 to 6 weeks.

It is your choice, you can start now, start during the clearance time, or divide it up and use now, or during clearance time, or all in PCT.



jackiechan said:


> All good points. Yeah, I'm only talking about the TRT part of a full "anti-aging" protocol. I'm 45. Test levels were toward the low end (400 ng/dl, but I'd have to check records to confirm). The argument from the anti-aging crowd is that test diminishes with age, ceteris parabus, and controlling for all other issues so TRT seems to make sense. Of course exogenous attempts to balance out the vast range of hormones (and other biochemicals) will fail compared to the body's ability. Your recommendation, I gather, I not to do TRT. If you *do* have hypogonadism what would a recommended PCT be? Thanks!


Ok, at what time of day was the 400 test taken?

You do know that 400ng/dl is within range of the 320-960 right?

I am well aware of the decline in testosterone but lets say you took 5000iu of Vitamin D every day, bumped up your sleep to 8 hours if you are not getting any, make sure you ate enough saturated fats, had enough vitamin A, zinc, magnesium, boron, etc, you may even have higher numbers.

What I should be asking is why do you feel you need TRT?

What makes you think you need to manipulate your hormones?

The vitamin D thing, I am 53 and I started taking vitamin D this year at 5000iu as being diagnosed low.

One thing I noticed almost or the first night, was night time erections, and second night I had a sex dream.

I'm like WTF, what, really?

Ever sense I took the D, I notice much more night time erections.

I notice it because it was not nightly, unlike now.

Deficiencies of certain vitamin and minerals can do this.

There are all kinds of over the counter things that can bump libido and cause harder erections.


----------



## Milky

@Mish

Is this what your after mate ?


----------



## Mish

Milky said:


> @Mish
> 
> Is this what your after mate ?


Yes, thank you. I didn't realise the PCT stickies were mixed in with the aas stickies.

Nice one.


----------



## Dave_b

Very helpful and informative thread for a newbie like me (Y)


----------



## Paullaith

Defo the infomation i needed good thread and thanks for your info.


----------



## Hit_the_weightS

Done your pct protocol and it has been spot on never had such high libido during pct. massive thumbs up


----------



## adam7

Great advise fella.

Ive pretty much abused the system and never done a proper pct, I now have a low sperm count, I ended my last course in june2012, I was tested in october and got the low sperm count result. Ive since taken clomid for about 1 month. Im currently waiting to be tested again but would it help to go on hcg, clomid and nolvadex now, even though its six months since my last course?


----------



## hackskii

No on the HCG, that will negatively impact sperm density.

Just use the clomid, and I think there is a product called semenex that may work, although I never used it.


----------



## adam7

Thanks for the quick response, should I keep taking chlomid or can it have a negative effect if taken to much?


----------



## hackskii

Well, ocular toxicity takes around 3 to 4 weeks to notice at 100mg ED.


----------



## jaymd_123

This has helped clear up a good few questions I had on the tip of my tongue.

Many thanks!


----------



## -aurora

hey guys just looking for a bit of advice on my pct for my 12 week test e cycle (currently on week 10)

my cycle is as follows:

week 1 - 12 500mg test E split @ 2 x 250mg shots

week 1 - 4 dbol kickstart 30mg

week 3 - 12 hcg @ 1000iu per week

week 1- 12 adex .5mg eod

2-3 weeks clearance

pct

nolva 45 days @ 20mg ed

clomid 30 days @ 100mg ed

hcg ??

Im not sure what dose of hcg to take on pct since ive been doing 1000iu p/w during cycle and also if to continue adex and hcg during the clearance period?


----------



## hackskii

Just run the HCG during the 2 week clearance time of the gear, actually you can start it a bit later than 2 weeks as 500mg wont clear by then.

I would wait 17 days from last jab for that to clear, and you can run the HCG with that.

Drop the adex once you start your SERMS.

You may even be able to get away with 3 weeks clomid at 100mg ED, and 20mg nolva for a month.


----------



## -aurora

hackskii said:


> Just run the HCG during the 2 week clearance time of the gear, actually you can start it a bit later than 2 weeks as 500mg wont clear by then.
> 
> I would wait 17 days from last jab for that to clear, and you can run the HCG with that.
> 
> Drop the adex once you start your SERMS.
> 
> You may even be able to get away with 3 weeks clomid at 100mg ED, and 20mg nolva for a month.


ok so should i just continue on with 1000iu p/w untill i start serms or up the dose of hcg?

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Just keep it the same, you can even have a shot of HCG the day you start your SERMS.


----------



## -aurora

hackskii said:


> Just keep it the same, you can even have a shot of HCG the day you start your SERMS.


thanks for the advice, anything else i could add in to pct like vit d/e zma etc, had a pretty rough pct last time round so looking to do everything i can this time round to have as smooth a pct as possible


----------



## hackskii

5000iu vitamin D would be a good thing, even 10mg boron could be a good thing.

I dont like to go over 25mg zinc a day myself, over 40mg a day, and long term use is linked to prostate issues.

Low dose good for prostate, high doses bad for prostate.


----------



## koska

Guys, I will be having my first cycle - test enanthate 250mg p/w, just 8 weeks long. I've got tamoxifen. Will it be enough to reduce the risks of getting gyno?


----------



## hackskii

koska said:


> Guys, I will be having my first cycle - test enanthate 250mg p/w, just 8 weeks long. I've got tamoxifen. Will it be enough to reduce the risks of getting gyno?


Yes


----------



## Herbal burt

wow this thread is awsome been reading it for over an hour, i am new to the forum and hope i am not being to cheeky asking for advice.

opened my eyes to the importance of pct

would be great to hear from hackskii.

i started my first cycle 5 days ago and the plan is this

6 weeks winny (started last wednesday) @ 60mg a day split into 2 x 30mg

2 weeks into winny was planning on starting test prop @ 100mg every 3 days for 10 weeks

after reading lots of this thread

pct to start 2 weeks after last jab

clomid 50mg twice a day for 30 days

nolvadex 20mg a day for 45 days

hcg 2500 every 3 days for 8 jabs ie mon wed fri

vit e & d for 45 days

zma before bed for 45 days

thanks for any advice


----------



## hackskii

I would use the HCG now low dose.

Doing so would keep testicular function during your cycle making recovery much easier.

No sense in using it after unless you have not used it during.

So, 500iu twice a week should keep and maintain testicular function.

Run the prop, then 3 days from last jab start PCT.

You can run the orals to the start day of PCT.

Then you only need to run the clomid for 3 weeks, nolva for 4 weeks.

Probably even be able to get away with 2 weeks clomid and 3 weeks nolva, but I would keep it in there depending on how you feel.

100mg a day of the clomid, 20mg nolva.

Vitamin D at 5000iu


----------



## Herbal burt

hackskii said:


> I would use the HCG now low dose.
> 
> Doing so would keep testicular function during your cycle making recovery much easier.
> 
> No sense in using it after unless you have not used it during.
> 
> So, 500iu twice a week should keep and maintain testicular function.
> 
> Run the prop, then 3 days from last jab start PCT.
> 
> You can run the orals to the start day of PCT.
> 
> Then you only need to run the clomid for 3 weeks, nolva for 4 weeks.
> 
> Probably even be able to get away with 2 weeks clomid and 3 weeks nolva, but I would keep it in there depending on how you feel.
> 
> 100mg a day of the clomid, 20mg nolva.
> 
> Vitamin D at 5000iu


thanks for the information, just to confirm and make sure i have got it right, i will put it down for you to check it if you dont mind. Also would the pct be enough to protect against gyno, i am age 43. 5'8" 168 pounds and 10% bf or should i run something like tamoxifen with the on cycle prop.

*on cycle*

6 weeks winny (started last wednesday 6th) @ 60mg a day split into 2 x 30mg

start test prop @ 100mg every 3.5 days for 10 weeks from this monday the 18th

start hcg at 500iu every 3.5 days from this monday the 18th

*pct to start 3 days after last jab*

clomid 50mg twice a day for 3 weeks

nolvadex 20mg a day for 4 weeks

hcg 2500 every 3 days for 8 jabs ie mon wed fri

vit d for 4 weeks at 5000iu per day

zma before bed for 4 weeks

vitamin e ? not sure what dose to use

muchas gracias


----------



## Herbal burt

just found this in one of the stickys

"If a cycle lasts 8 weeks or longer, I think it is best to use HCG during the cycle if possible, as described above. HCG should not be used during the recovery itself since it will increase androgen and estrogen levels, which will be inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary."

should i drop the hcg when i drop the prop.

not easy is it :-0


----------



## hackskii

Herbal burt said:


> just found this in one of the stickys
> 
> "If a cycle lasts 8 weeks or longer, I think it is best to use HCG during the cycle if possible, as described above. HCG should not be used during the recovery itself since it will increase androgen and estrogen levels, which will be inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary."
> 
> should i drop the hcg when i drop the prop.
> 
> not easy is it :-0


Well, if HCG has not been used, and testicular function is gone, his statement is false, as it would then take months to recover the testicles, not weeks.

Sure it may be inhibitory to the hypothalamus/pituitary axis but who cares, that comes back in weeks, not months like the nuts do.

You would be a fool to not use HCG during PCT if you have lost testicular function.

Bad advice to be honest.


----------



## Herbal burt

hackskii said:


> I would use the HCG now low dose.
> 
> Doing so would keep testicular function during your cycle making recovery much easier.
> 
> No sense in using it after unless you have not used it during.
> 
> So, 500iu twice a week should keep and maintain testicular function.
> 
> Run the prop, then 3 days from last jab start PCT.
> 
> You can run the orals to the start day of PCT.
> 
> Then you only need to run the clomid for 3 weeks, nolva for 4 weeks.
> 
> Probably even be able to get away with 2 weeks clomid and 3 weeks nolva, but I would keep it in there depending on how you feel.
> 
> 100mg a day of the clomid, 20mg nolva.
> 
> Vitamin D at 5000iu


sorry to be a pain hackskii but things have changed a little,

I am 43 and have been training natty for 4 years

this is the first time I have ever taken steroids.

it was never my plan to take orals my reason being they do more damage to the liver than injecting steroids which avoid the liver.

When I approached my source who has 30 years experience with steroids, I told him I wanted to start doing some testosterone, he advised I started on orals so I reluctantly agreed.

I have been taking winstrol for 10 days now at 60mg a day spread at 30mg twice a day.

I was planning on starting test prop in a weeks time because I thought this is how I would achieve the look I wanted (hard and not to big, kinda so you can not tell there is lots of muscle until clothing is removed or tight tshirt is worn lol).

In preparation of starting my first ever cycle of testosterone I researched pct and hcg with the help of yourself and your pct threads, I approached my source on Thursday to talk to him about the pct and hcg that I had researched and he told me I was thinking way to much about it for a first timer.

I have been chomping at the bit in anticipation of doing my first jab and on thursday when i was chatting to him about pct and hcg he said to me "look do you want to get your first jab out the way now" i agreed and he administered for me.

So I had my first jab of test cyp on thur 14/2 250mg and I am going to have another on Monday and carry on at 250mg twice a week for 10 weeks.

I am going to drop the winstrol as of today, reason is I would like to know what happens to me with each different steroid and I wont know what has caused what if I start doing combinations, so I will start off by keeping it simple.

When I mentioned hcg to my source he told me it is something he sells in powder form and it is pinned twice a week but he advised I don't need it unless my balls shrink, although I really like my source and respect his advice from what I have read on your threads it will help with recovery and retaining gains so I am in favour of using hcg, as I am already pinning my test cyp twice a week I don't really fancy pinning another 2 times for hcg, can you advise me if there is an oral that I can take that will do the same job as hcg, if there isn't I may consider leaving the hcg during cycle and use it during pct.

Previously you advised vitamin d at 5000iu, would that be ed during cycle or pct or both

Here is my planned cycle, what do you think.

Week 1-10 250mg of test cyp twice a week

Week 1-10 500iu hcg twice per week if I decide I can live with the extra pinning unless there is an alternative. (should i continue with the hcg during the pct)

Week 12-15 50mg of clomid twice a day

Week 12-16 20mg of nolva once a day

(if i dont use hcg during cycle i will use it during pct starting week 12 and jab 1000iu eod for 8 jabs)

this is the absolute definite cycle, greatly appreciate your input.

Herbal burt


----------



## ivan360

Hi,

Planning on doing my 3rd cycle next month however this time I'd like to try Test E with Anavar kickstart. My last 2 cycle were both sustanon with dbol kickstart.

my previous cycles looked like this

week 1-10 sustanon 500mg

week 1-4 dbol 30mg ed

week 1-till start of PCT HCG 500iu x2 a week

week 1-till start of PCT Adex 0.5mg eod

PCT (28 days after last jab of Sust)

3 weeks clomid 100mg

4 weeks nolva 20mg

Should I do the same with Test E and Anavar? And im also planning on pushing my test e cycle to 12 weeks with anavar at 50mg for 4 weeks

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Herbal burt said:


> sorry to be a pain hackskii but things have changed a little,
> 
> I am 43 and have been training natty for 4 years
> 
> this is the first time I have ever taken steroids.
> 
> it was never my plan to take orals my reason being they do more damage to the liver than injecting steroids which avoid the liver.
> 
> When I approached my source who has 30 years experience with steroids, I told him I wanted to start doing some testosterone, he advised I started on orals so I reluctantly agreed.
> 
> I have been taking winstrol for 10 days now at 60mg a day spread at 30mg twice a day.
> 
> I was planning on starting test prop in a weeks time because I thought this is how I would achieve the look I wanted (hard and not to big, kinda so you can not tell there is lots of muscle until clothing is removed or tight tshirt is worn lol).
> 
> In preparation of starting my first ever cycle of testosterone I researched pct and hcg with the help of yourself and your pct threads, I approached my source on Thursday to talk to him about the pct and hcg that I had researched and he told me I was thinking way to much about it for a first timer.
> 
> I have been chomping at the bit in anticipation of doing my first jab and on thursday when i was chatting to him about pct and hcg he said to me "look do you want to get your first jab out the way now" i agreed and he administered for me.
> 
> So I had my first jab of test cyp on thur 14/2 250mg and I am going to have another on Monday and carry on at 250mg twice a week for 10 weeks.
> 
> I am going to drop the winstrol as of today, reason is I would like to know what happens to me with each different steroid and I wont know what has caused what if I start doing combinations, so I will start off by keeping it simple.
> 
> When I mentioned hcg to my source he told me it is something he sells in powder form and it is pinned twice a week but he advised I don't need it unless my balls shrink, although I really like my source and respect his advice from what I have read on your threads it will help with recovery and retaining gains so I am in favour of using hcg, as I am already pinning my test cyp twice a week I don't really fancy pinning another 2 times for hcg, can you advise me if there is an oral that I can take that will do the same job as hcg, if there isn't I may consider leaving the hcg during cycle and use it during pct.
> 
> Previously you advised vitamin d at 5000iu, would that be ed during cycle or pct or both
> 
> Here is my planned cycle, what do you think.
> 
> Week 1-10 250mg of test cyp twice a week
> 
> Week 1-10 500iu hcg twice per week if I decide I can live with the extra pinning unless there is an alternative. (should i continue with the hcg during the pct)
> 
> Week 12-15 50mg of clomid twice a day
> 
> Week 12-16 20mg of nolva once a day
> 
> (if i dont use hcg during cycle i will use it during pct starting week 12 and jab 1000iu eod for 8 jabs)
> 
> this is the absolute definite cycle, greatly appreciate your input.
> 
> Herbal burt


Well, once a week with the cyp is fine, you can bang all 500mg and be done with it.

HCG can be done sub-Q so no problem there, 500iu twice a week will keep the nuts alive, recovery will be much easier.

Sadly no oral can or will replace HCG, but with such a small needle, you wont notice it anyway.

10 weeks at 500iu x 2 = 1000iu, x 10 = 10,000iu, which would be 2 pregnyl amps of 5000, and I would use bacteriostatic water there.


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Planning on doing my 3rd cycle next month however this time I'd like to try Test E with Anavar kickstart. My last 2 cycle were both sustanon with dbol kickstart.
> 
> my previous cycles looked like this
> 
> week 1-10 sustanon 500mg
> 
> week 1-4 dbol 30mg ed
> 
> week 1-till start of PCT HCG 500iu x2 a week
> 
> week 1-till start of PCT Adex 0.5mg eod
> 
> PCT (28 days after last jab of Sust)
> 
> 3 weeks clomid 100mg
> 
> 4 weeks nolva 20mg
> 
> Should I do the same with Test E and Anavar? And im also planning on pushing my test e cycle to 12 weeks with anavar at 50mg for 4 weeks
> 
> Thanks.


Same would be fine.

I would add in the Vitamin D as well unless you are out in the sun like in your avatar, then it wont be needed.


----------



## ivan360

hackskii said:


> Same would be fine.
> 
> I would add in the Vitamin D as well unless you are out in the sun like in your avatar, then it wont be needed.


Thanks a lot Hackskii as always.

And that reminds me its beach season again here.=)


----------



## benki11

ivan360 said:


> Thanks a lot Hackskii as always.
> 
> And that reminds me its beach season again here.=)


hi Ivan where you coming from?

nice name


----------



## ivan360

benki11 said:


> hi Ivan where you coming from?
> 
> nice name


Thanks. I play a lot of XBOX =) Im from South East Asia


----------



## Gunni_Sta

How is PCT at 20mg Flouxymesterone for 4 weeks?


----------



## hackskii

Gunni_Sta said:


> How is PCT at 20mg Flouxymesterone for 4 weeks?


The better question is why you would suggest a 4 week cycle of Halotestin in the first place?


----------



## Gunni_Sta

I think on 4 Weeks Halotestin or 6 Weeks Anavar


----------



## hackskii

Gunni_Sta said:


> I think on 4 Weeks Halotestin or 6 Weeks Anavar


Well, I cant understand why a person would use halo for a cycle alone.

I would do the var before the halo, I mean if you are going into a strength comp then ok, but for lean gains for muscle, I doubt it will do what you are thinking it may do.

PCT for the var would be 23 weeks clomid at 100mg and 20mg nolva for 4 weeks.


----------



## Gunni_Sta

How long can Anavar be used maximal?


----------



## hackskii

Gunni_Sta said:


> How long can Anavar be used maximal?


I went 7 weeks at 75mg, did get some testicular atrophy though, but recovery was pretty easy.


----------



## Gunni_Sta

PCT for the var would be 23 weeks clomid at 100mg and 20mg nolva for 4 weeks. Than you have finiched like this?


----------



## hackskii

Gunni_Sta said:


> PCT for the var would be 23 weeks clomid at 100mg and 20mg nolva for 4 weeks. Than you have finiched like this?


OOPS, days, not weeks, oh hell you would have vision problems that would be terrible.

Sorry, 3 weeks. or 21 days.

Oh man, that would have been bad.....


----------



## bulldoguk

great post,thats what i intend to do but ive been told that pct isnt realy needed,i have been researching steroids and pct for years and im now at an age where i think i will benefit from the use of steroids im now 31,but im now confused as i always thought in order to keep a good percentage of your gains then pct is a must,but there are fellas on here that have never done pct,will not doing pct have an effect on keeping gains,or are they a must in you opinion?


----------



## manunited

Thanks for this very useful information!!!

cheers


----------



## hackskii

bulldoguk said:


> great post,thats what i intend to do but ive been told that pct isnt realy needed,i have been researching steroids and pct for years and im now at an age where i think i will benefit from the use of steroids im now 31,but im now confused as i always thought in order to keep a good percentage of your gains then pct is a must,but there are fellas on here that have never done pct,will not doing pct have an effect on keeping gains,or are they a must in you opinion?


Well, it depends on the person, it depends on the steroids used, the amounts, and the time on.

So, some guys blast and cruise for years, if they come off and do nothing, it could take over a year to come back.

So, do you think these are wise to not regain HPTA in weeks instead of a year or longer?


----------



## bulldoguk

hackskii said:


> Well, it depends on the person, it depends on the steroids used, the amounts, and the time on.
> 
> So, some guys blast and cruise for years, if they come off and do nothing, it could take over a year to come back.
> 
> So, do you think these are wise to not regain HPTA in weeks instead of a year or longer?


thanks for the reply,but what does cruise on a cycle mean is that a lower ammount for a long time,im going to run test e 300mg every 4days,dbol for the fist 3-4 weeks and for 3 weeks after last shot and proviron 25mg a day rising to 50 mg,but its my first cycle so i might ask some silly questions at times lol,i have researched steroids and pct for years but chose to do steroids now as my gains are slowing down,im going to have hcg on hand for shrinkage and have clomid and nolvadex for pct,thanks again m8


----------



## hackskii

By all means use the HCG at 500iu twice a week throughout the cycle.

Proviron wont do much of anything, you can use it later if you get ED issues.

Clomid and nolva will be fine for PCT.


----------



## bulldoguk

hackskii said:


> By all means use the HCG at 500iu twice a week throughout the cycle.
> 
> Proviron wont do much of anything, you can use it later if you get ED issues.
> 
> Clomid and nolva will be fine for PCT.


i thought proviron makes more test avilable or makes a testosterone cycle better or something like that lol,so is proviron not going to benefit my cycle in your opinion,thankyou for your reply


----------



## hackskii

bulldoguk said:


> i thought proviron makes more test avilable or makes a testosterone cycle better or something like that lol,so is proviron not going to benefit my cycle in your opinion,thankyou for your reply


Well, not really, most steroids do what you just suggested proviron does, if anything I would use masterone over proviron any day.

Short answer, it wont help, nor is necessary.


----------



## bulldoguk

i havent got the proviron yet anyway,i have some test e and dbol and going to just cycle with them then,i was abit weary about the proviron as people say you can lose your hair on it,so yeah gonna run test e at 300mg every 4 days and dbol first 4 weeks and for 3 weeks after last shot,i have to get this perfect as its my first cycle and ive heard the gains are more on first cycle,thankyou for your comments i really appreciate them and will take your advice on board,you have also just saved me a few quid


----------



## hackskii

Your results from first cycle will be awesome, you already have some good size suggesting you already know what you are doing.

You will love your first cycle, I did, just be prepared for some crazy libido issues. :lol:


----------



## bulldoguk

i will welcome that side as ive been with my missus for 9 years and any help will do  cheers for your advice m8 youve been very helpful,would doing longer than 12 weeks do more harm than good as i have enough to run the cycle for 15weeks,thanks again.


----------



## hackskii

Lets just keep the first cycle simple, and see how it all goes.


----------



## PeterPann

Hello, Hackskii! Thank you for all your help! Great post!

Question is: How do you determine the clearance time (the time between last injection and PCT)?

I'm aware of the difference between Half-Life and Active-Life terms.

I understand that Half-life is the period of time required for the concentration or amount of drug in the body to be reduced to exactly one-half of a given concentration or amount.

Active life is the period in which the amount of a drug in the body is enough that it will still produce the desired effects for which it was administered.

So the conclusion is that Half-life is not a reference for the total time a drug will be found active in the body. It may take several half-lives before the drug is completely inactive.

I found this online "PCT calculator" for clearance time. What do you think of it correctness and legitimacy?

This was my cycle

*Cycle 2*

W 1-12 Test C 750 mg/w

W 1-6 DBol 50mg/ED

W 1-6 Arimidex 3 mg/w

W 7-15 Arimidex 2.5 mg/w

W 3-15 HCG 500 iu 2x/w

*PCT*

W 16-19 (30days) Clomid 50mg 2x/d

W 16-21 (45days) Nolva 20mg/d

PCT calculator advocates me to take a 24-27 days of clearance time. Seems legit to me.


----------



## PeterPann

Mod didn't let me to put a l i n k...

pct dot befit4free dot net


----------



## Fitness4Life

You sir have won my undoubted appreciation Hacksii  Although I knew what a PCT was from research etc, never have I seen it so clear as day!


----------



## PeterPann

So what about my question? How do you determine the clearance time? is there any tool or decay algorithm?


----------



## hackskii

PeterPann said:


> So what about my question? How do you determine the clearance time? is there any tool or decay algorithm?


This might be of some help, although some would question its times: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/2087-good-article-steroid-esters-some-guidelines-halflife-calc.html

Remember where you shoot, how much you shoot, the type of ester, how much bodyfat, all will determine some of the time it takes to clear.

With TRT folks, 100mg will take about 6 days before the feel the gear fall at or below normal levels, by the 7th day they are low end or below normal.

I remember taking 500mg test E a week, and still at week 2 I could feel it from oily face, high libido, and the deeper voice I get on gear.

So, with 500mg enanthate I was waiting 17 days to start PCT.

With 500mg sust, I still felt the gear at week 3, so I was starting my PCT like 25 to 30 days depending on how I felt.


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> This might be of some help, although some would question its times: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/2087-good-article-steroid-esters-some-guidelines-halflife-calc.html


Not really what I was looking for...It's about calculating the half-life of a drug. I need some info about Active life of a drug.

what is your opinion on this calculator. link below, put "." instead of "dot"

pct dot befit4free dot net

This site is down now. It was working a few days ago. Maybe some kind of temporary issue.

Anyways, it suggests me to take a 24-27 days before starting a pct. I was on 12 week Test c 750 mg/w cycle. Does it sounds right to you?


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> This might be of some help, although some would question its times: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/2087-good-article-steroid-esters-some-guidelines-halflife-calc.html


Not really what I was looking for...this article about detecting a half-life. I need info about active life of a drug.

would 24-27 days enough to clear after 750 mg/w Test C cycle?

cheers.


----------



## hackskii

PeterPann said:


> Not really what I was looking for...this article about detecting a half-life. I need info about active life of a drug.
> 
> would 24-27 days enough to clear after 750 mg/w Test C cycle?
> 
> cheers.


750 would take a month to clear, and perhaps one shot of 750 would take a bit longer than a month.

Another option is to either run faster esters at the back of the cycle, or orals, or a combination of both.

Prop would be 3 days, orals next day.

I think if you start your PCT too early then the SERMS wont fire the LH in the presence of androgens, so that would limit recovery.


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> 750 would take a month to clear, and perhaps one shot of 750 would take a bit longer than a month.


750 mg/w , 375 mg per shot twice a week. I'm gonna wait 4 weeks before I start PCT.


----------



## Padbear

Hiya guys

Have just started reading this thread. I am currently on a bulk and plan to begin my cut in mid April. I am planning on doing a shortish 4-6 week cycle of Anavar. I enjoy bulking but I find it very hard to cut and I would love the little extra help. Now I am only beginning to learn about the process and will be doing a lot of research before I start in April.

On a low dose, 40mg-80mg a day, what PCT would be necessary? I am currently reading up on Clomid and HCG. Is it ok to take HCG in tablet form instead of injecting? http://www.a1supplements.com/The-HCG-Solution-30-Tablets-p-22094.html

Thank you for any info


----------



## hackskii

Just take some clomid for PCT, I doubt the HCG tablets will do much of anything really.


----------



## Padbear

Thanks Hackskii


----------



## grapplingvice

Another newbie here... sorry people -remember we all have to start somewhere.. 

Looking for some help / feedback please - I am 45 6-1 192 lbs and I have just started my first cycle with test E 500mg/w, arimidex .25mg/eod was going to run this for 10 weeks then take 2 weeks off from both. Wait 14 days ish and use 20mg nolva for 3weeks.

Does this sound ok?? should I change the amounts or frequency on anything?? add anything?? HCG?? clomid?? Thanks for your time and input!!!


----------



## hackskii

grapplingvice said:


> Another newbie here... sorry people -remember we all have to start somewhere..
> 
> Looking for some help / feedback please - I am 45 6-1 192 lbs and I have just started my first cycle with test E 500mg/w, arimidex .25mg/eod was going to run this for 10 weeks then take 2 weeks off from both. Wait 14 days ish and use 20mg nolva for 3weeks.
> 
> Does this sound ok?? should I change the amounts or frequency on anything?? add anything?? HCG?? clomid?? Thanks for your time and input!!!


I personally would never run a cycle without HCG, just consider it an insurance policy.

I also would run clomid in there as well.


----------



## grapplingvice

ok..HCG during the cycle then the 14days ish of nothing and then do the nolva and clomid for the 3 weeks right???

Thanks Hackskii - I appreciate your time and knowledge!!


----------



## hackskii

grapplingvice said:


> ok..HCG during the cycle then the 14days ish of nothing and then do the nolva and clomid for the 3 weeks right???
> 
> Thanks Hackskii - I appreciate your time and knowledge!!


Instead of the 2 weeks doing nothing, you still could use the HCG and the AI.


----------



## grapplingvice

Thanks again Hackskii!!!!


----------



## SATANSEVILTWIN

@grapplingvice,what hackskii doesnt know about pct isnt worth knowing.see his post count.......thats 38,982 posts on pct :thumb:


----------



## hackskii

SATANSEVILTWIN said:


> @grapplingvice,what hackskii doesnt know about pct isnt worth knowing.see his post count.......thats 38,982 posts on pct :thumb:


You should see the amount of PM's I get, and now emails as guys cant PM, heck I am working with a guy right now via email and he is in Australia.

Very nice guy, and he follows directions to the T.


----------



## grapplingvice

right on!!!! I must have read about 3 hrs worth of Hackskiis posts on here...but just didn't see the exact same thing I was doing... yeah HACKSKII RULES!!!!!


----------



## grapplingvice

hackskii said:


> I personally would never run a cycle without HCG, just consider it an insurance policy.
> 
> I also would run clomid in there as well.


based off of the stuff I am going to do..and adding the clomid in with the nolva how much HCG should I use and how often..

Thank You


----------



## hackskii

grapplingvice said:


> based off of the stuff I am going to do..and adding the clomid in with the nolva how much HCG should I use and how often..
> 
> Thank You


During the cycle 500iu twice a week would be fine.


----------



## grapplingvice

hackskii said:


> During the cycle 500iu twice a week would be fine.


thanks again!! have a great weekend!


----------



## nrg

Soo much info here. I read through about 8 pages of this thread, and have learned a lot! I just had a sperm count done as a result of inability to conceive and I am at 4,000. I stopped aas roughly 3 months ago and my pct was basically 10,000 iu hcg 2,000 eod. I have also been on ghrp6 and cjc1295 for the last 2 months. I havent heard of peptides lowering sperm count and in my completely unprofessional opinion I wouldn't think it had any relation. I'm looking for some advice as to the best way to get my counts up to spec...


----------



## hackskii

nrg said:


> Soo much info here. I read through about 8 pages of this thread, and have learned a lot! I just had a sperm count done as a result of inability to conceive and I am at 4,000. I stopped aas roughly 3 months ago and my pct was basically 10,000 iu hcg 2,000 eod. I have also been on ghrp6 and cjc1295 for the last 2 months. I havent heard of peptides lowering sperm count and in my completely unprofessional opinion I wouldn't think it had any relation. I'm looking for some advice as to the best way to get my counts up to spec...


Time, quality of sperm comes last in the recovery game, only time will help you.

Perhaps low dose clomid will help, but this is all going to come back slowly, and may take a year, but probably less.

DO a search on supplements and sperm count, many things positively help here.


----------



## nrg

Time, I hate that word! I found the fertility thread after I wrote this and have been poking around. What would you say is a low dose of clomid 50 mg ed? What kind of duration? Also, is Proviron, and nolva only beneficial for pct or will these bump sperm count at all? still foggy on that? I've searched around for supps that will increase counts, it's hard to tell what is for real and what isn't. Thank You for all the info you provide on this site Hack, massively useful! I was pretty bummed out until I read a lot of your posts


----------



## hackskii

nrg said:


> Time, I hate that word! I found the fertility thread after I wrote this and have been poking around. What would you say is a low dose of clomid 50 mg ed? What kind of duration? Also, is Proviron, and nolva only beneficial for pct or will these bump sperm count at all? still foggy on that? I've searched around for supps that will increase counts, it's hard to tell what is for real and what isn't. Thank You for all the info you provide on this site Hack, massively useful! I was pretty bummed out until I read a lot of your posts


Thanks for the kind words, low dose clomid would be like 25mg EOD for a couple of months.

Some supplements would include L-ARGININE, arginine, zinc (no more than 25mg a day), magnesium (RDA dose is 320mg ED), Selenium, B-complex, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and notice the last two as they contain antioxidants, this protects the nuts, so with that said NAC, ALA.

I was reading a study the other day on NAC, not only is it good for the leydig cells, it also helped sperm, I was reading into it for leydig cell health and then noticed that.

Yes, I have heard guys take proviron as well and one guy got his woman pregnant on high dose of that and it seemed to work pretty fast.


----------



## nrg

Very cool, thanks again! What about vitamin D, I see you suggest that from time to time?


----------



## hackskii

nrg said:


> Very cool, thanks again! What about vitamin D, I see you suggest that from time to time?


I suggest it all the time, it is awesome stuff, raises testosterone levels as well, and is one of the most common deficiency.


----------



## Fitness4Life

Question with training on PCT Hacksii if you don't mind please  (Asking well in advance as I'm nearly on week 4 of 12 of my little first cycle)

How should training be done? Take a break for a week during the start of PCT? Training light? Keep doing what I was doing? etc


----------



## hackskii

Fitness4Life said:


> Question with training on PCT Hacksii if you don't mind please  (Asking well in advance as I'm nearly on week 4 of 12 of my little first cycle)
> 
> How should training be done? Take a break for a week during the start of PCT? Training light? Keep doing what I was doing? etc


You can train, I would not change anything really, maybe add some creatine in the mix.


----------



## Fitness4Life

hackskii said:


> You can train, I would not change anything really, maybe add some creatine in the mix.


Awesome, thanks. When would you recommend in taking a week off? After PCT?


----------



## hackskii

Fitness4Life said:


> Awesome, thanks. When would you recommend in taking a week off? After PCT?


You could, or back off on the intensity.

Some times it is good to have some time off, to let things heal up.


----------



## Fitness4Life

hackskii said:


> You could, or back off on the intensity.
> 
> Some times it is good to have some time off, to let things heal up.


Thanks very much


----------



## hackskii

Fitness4Life said:


> Thanks very much


Well, better still

Be happy, enjoy, let distress be removed from yourself.

Thanks for being thankful

I like that


----------



## Fitness4Life

hackskii said:


> Well, better still
> 
> Be happy, enjoy, let distress be removed from yourself.
> 
> Thanks for being thankful
> 
> I like that


I think I'll have a deload week or a week off (depends how I feel i guess) on my first week of PCT or after PCT, just as you say destress


----------



## rickywald

hi, im starting a cycle soon and i think i have most of it figured out. it looks like this:

weeks 1-12 tritest (enanthate, cypionate, decanoate) 600mg

weeks 1-12 tren enanthate 400mg

weeks 2-12 arimidex 0.25mg ed

weeks 3-12 HCG 1000iu

clomid from week 16 for 30days 100mg ed

the part i am confused about is using nolva. ive read that using nolva is not advised during a tren cycle due to increasing progrestin and prolactin sides. but this shouldnt be a problem once the tren is out of my system at around week 16, right? also im slightly unsure if ive got the timings of my hcg and clomid right. should hcg be up until week 16? and should clomid start once the test and tren are out of my system (both long acting esters).

my main concern is recovering fully and keeping on cycle sides at bay, should i take anything to protect myself from the side effects of tren or keep anything on hand?

any help is much appreciated, thanks in advance


----------



## Barbell mafia

I know a guy who I train with he has been on many cycles and seems to revover without the use of PCT and bounce back s8 into his next cycle must be his genes !


----------



## Fitness4Life

Barbell mafia said:


> I know a guy who I train with he has been on many cycles and seems to revover without the use of PCT and bounce back s8 into his next cycle must be his genes !


Or playing with fire  what will his 'insides' be like in years to come I reckon; could be fine, could be horrid. Sure we are all individuals; I would not play with such fire, with such substances. I believe in safety and proper usage. Use do not abuse. Only way to know is to try a cycle, but in saying that, I would not boldly just do a cycle, research a PCT and have it handy, that goes for anyone.


----------



## Eryximachus

Barbell mafia said:


> I know a guy who I train with he has been on many cycles and seems to revover without the use of PCT and bounce back s8 into his next cycle must be his genes !


You sure like to throw out anecdotal evidence that might get someone hurt. Your friend is an unusual exception, and mentioning such a story easily can mislead people. Having abused steroids myself, do you REALLY know how his recovery was going? He probably toughed it out for two months, and then got back on. You don't know about those two months. And then there is the long-term cumulative effects of not cycling.


----------



## hackskii

rickywald said:


> hi, im starting a cycle soon and i think i have most of it figured out. it looks like this:
> 
> weeks 1-12 tritest (enanthate, cypionate, decanoate) 600mg
> 
> weeks 1-12 tren enanthate 400mg
> 
> weeks 2-12 arimidex 0.25mg ed
> 
> weeks 3-12 HCG 1000iu
> 
> clomid from week 16 for 30days 100mg ed
> 
> the part i am confused about is using nolva. ive read that using nolva is not advised during a tren cycle due to increasing progrestin and prolactin sides. but this shouldnt be a problem once the tren is out of my system at around week 16, right? also im slightly unsure if ive got the timings of my hcg and clomid right. should hcg be up until week 16? and should clomid start once the test and tren are out of my system (both long acting esters).
> 
> my main concern is recovering fully and keeping on cycle sides at bay, should i take anything to protect myself from the side effects of tren or keep anything on hand?
> 
> any help is much appreciated, thanks in advance


Yes, take the nolva with the clomid at 20mg, wont be a problem once the tren is gone anyway.

I dont see a problem with your plan.

Keeping the nuts alive is the smartest thing for recovery you can do hands down.

So, keep it in there till you start the SERMS.


----------



## rickywald

hackskii said:


> Yes, take the nolva with the clomid at 20mg, wont be a problem once the tren is gone anyway.
> 
> I dont see a problem with your plan.
> 
> Keeping the nuts alive is the smartest thing for recovery you can do hands down.
> 
> So, keep it in there till you start the SERMS.


Thanks for the reply. So I should start Nolva and clomid around 3-4 weeks after my last shot of test and tren and keep the hcg at 1000iu until I start them? Also would I run the arimidex until the end of hcg?


----------



## hackskii

Yes to all of those.


----------



## kaaarrl

Im new to these forums so im not sure how to create a new thread or anything so i thought id post on something relevant.

I have just finsihed a 12 wk cycle of sustanton, 500mg a week.

My understanding is I should start my PCT 3 weeks after, although to hand all i have is 22x 50mg clomid tabs and 20x 20mg tamoxifen tabs.

Can I make a PCT work from this or should I buy more clomid to up the doses?

Id appreciate any help, thanks 

Age-20

Height-6ft 3

Weight at start of cycle 14st 4lb

Weight at end of cycle 15st 12lb


----------



## hackskii

kaaarrl said:


> Im new to these forums so im not sure how to create a new thread or anything so i thought id post on something relevant.
> 
> I have just finsihed a 12 wk cycle of sustanton, 500mg a week.
> 
> My understanding is I should start my PCT 3 weeks after, although to hand all i have is 22x 50mg clomid tabs and 20x 20mg tamoxifen tabs.
> 
> Can I make a PCT work from this or should I buy more clomid to up the doses?
> 
> Id appreciate any help, thanks
> 
> Age-20
> 
> Height-6ft 3
> 
> Weight at start of cycle 14st 4lb
> 
> Weight at end of cycle 15st 12lb


Yep, and some HCG as well, and more nolva.


----------



## 2bang

help would b appreciated hackski ive bin taking test 400 at 800 mg a week for 12 week and 100 mg ov anavar for last 8 week i was wantin to no a good pct for this please age 30 weight 14 stone cheers


----------



## hackskii

2bang said:


> help would b appreciated hackski ive bin taking test 400 at 800 mg a week for 12 week and 100 mg ov anavar for last 8 week i was wantin to no a good pct for this please age 30 weight 14 stone cheers


So, no HCG during your cycle then?

If so then the Power PCT would be a good idea.


----------



## 2bang

no didnt run hcg my bad, but on hand ive got 45,20mg tamoxifen tablets 24,50 mg clomiphene tablets and 2000 iu/1ml hcg what could i do with this lot i got these cos ive seen u mention these on other posts just not clear on wot i should do with my cycle bin different to the ones ive seen u comment on thanks for your help


----------



## hackskii

2bang said:


> no didnt run hcg my bad, but on hand ive got 45,20mg tamoxifen tablets 24,50 mg clomiphene tablets and 2000 iu/1ml hcg what could i do with this lot i got these cos ive seen u mention these on other posts just not clear on wot i should do with my cycle bin different to the ones ive seen u comment on thanks for your help


I would get more HCG myself, 2000iu is not very much.


----------



## 2bang

thanks for the help, so 100 mg clomid a day for 30 days,20mg noveldax a day for 45 days, and would 1000iu eod be enough for 16 days and would i start them all together 2 week after me last shot, cheers


----------



## hackskii

2bang said:


> thanks for the help, so 100 mg clomid a day for 30 days,20mg noveldax a day for 45 days, and would 1000iu eod be enough for 16 days and would i start them all together 2 week after me last shot, cheers


Well, that may or may not be enough HCG, but 12 week cycles are not all that hard to recover from, it is when you use compounds like deca, or run them for extended periods of time.


----------



## Jcbear

Some great info on this thread. Just lookinv for some clarification on my pct. Im in wk 13 of 14 wk test enanthat 500mcg per week. Wasnt able to source hcg for my cycle unfortunately but havd some now. I have 45 20mg tamoxifen and clomid coming tomorrow.

I wanted to check, do I run hcg after last pin and before begining tamox/clomid? I have 5000iu and was going to pin 1000 eod.

Also, be happy to hear suggestions on what dosage and length of time for clomid and tamoxifen

Many thanks in advance


----------



## 2bang

thanks for the help hackskii much appreciated


----------



## hackskii

Jcbear said:


> Some great info on this thread. Just lookinv for some clarification on my pct. Im in wk 13 of 14 wk test enanthat 500mcg per week. Wasnt able to source hcg for my cycle unfortunately but havd some now. I have 45 20mg tamoxifen and clomid coming tomorrow.
> 
> I wanted to check, do I run hcg after last pin and before begining tamox/clomid? I have 5000iu and was going to pin 1000 eod.
> 
> Also, be happy to hear suggestions on what dosage and length of time for clomid and tamoxifen
> 
> Many thanks in advance


Probably wont be enough HCG there.

If you pin the HCG, then you will need to take some nolva to protect you from estrogenic sides.


----------



## Jcbear

Thanks for the reply hackskii. Was planning to start hcg straight after last test jab and run 1000iu eod. What would u suggest, is this ok if I was to do this if I was but continue for say 3 weeks? Im gunna run nolva at 20 per day. Then begin pct of nolva and clomid for further 3 weeks. Sorry if these are basic questions, ive read so many protocols that seem to be outdated. Any advice be very helpful.


----------



## hackskii

Jcbear said:


> Thanks for the reply hackskii. Was planning to start hcg straight after last test jab and run 1000iu eod. What would u suggest, is this ok if I was to do this if I was but continue for say 3 weeks? Im gunna run nolva at 20 per day. Then begin pct of nolva and clomid for further 3 weeks. Sorry if these are basic questions, ive read so many protocols that seem to be outdated. Any advice be very helpful.


That should work providing 2 things happen here.

1. testicular function has been achieved (enough HCG use).

2. enough clearance time from the gear as to not hinder the use of the SERMS doing their job.


----------



## DazUKM

do the nuts always get shut down? or does it depend on the cycle?

how does one know when HCG is needed and when it isnt? or do u believe its always needed? i see many threads where the PCT is just nolva/clomid

im assuming mild cycles wont shut you down hence no need for the HCG but when you do get shut down is when you use it, can someone confirm or explain otherwise?


----------



## hackskii

D9S4 said:


> do the nuts always get shut down? or does it depend on the cycle?
> 
> how does one know when HCG is needed and when it isnt? or do u believe its always needed? i see many threads where the PCT is just nolva/clomid
> 
> im assuming mild cycles wont shut you down hence no need for the HCG but when you do get shut down is when you use it, can someone confirm or explain otherwise?


Short cycles probably wont need HCG.

Long cycles probably will.

Some compounds like deca have the ability to shut down hard, and long, so HCG there probably for sure.

If one keeps testicular function during the cycle, the recovery will be easier after the cycle and into PCT.

But there are many variables here, and also depends on the person.


----------



## DazUKM

hackskii said:


> Short cycles probably wont need HCG.
> 
> Long cycles probably will.
> 
> Some compounds like deca have the ability to shut down hard, and long, so HCG there probably for sure.
> 
> If one keeps testicular function during the cycle, the recovery will be easier after the cycle and into PCT.
> 
> But there are many variables here, and also depends on the person.


Thanks :thumbup1:


----------



## DorsetDude

Hackskii, I'm new the the forum and was wondering what the definition of a short cycle is, 10/12 weeks or less?


----------



## hackskii

DorsetDude said:


> Hackskii, I'm new the the forum and was wondering what the definition of a short cycle is, 10/12 weeks or less?


Probably about half that.


----------



## 4fingers

Hi Hackskii, and thanks alot for all the great information about a subject i find hard to understand fully.

i have been reading every page here on this matter, but i hope you would take 1 minute to answer my question as of what i read you are like a PCT guru

i have just finnished a cycle of:

susta 250 ew for 9 weeks

deca 100 ew for 7 weeks

winstrol 0,5 eod for 7 weeks

30 years old.

this might sound like a useless cycle to you but i gained 16lbs from it in 9 weeks and it got me where i wanted.

now, for the question: is clomid enough for pct or would you recommend nolva too?

i am now 2 weeks after last injection, feel great, balls have not shrunken at all but i feel a little bit shutdown in the sexdrive. Not much but a little un-interested and the morning boner is not what it used to be.

What would you recommend for pct in a "mild" cycle like this?

grateful for your answer!

/4fingers


----------



## hackskii

4fingers said:


> Hi Hackskii, and thanks alot for all the great information about a subject i find hard to understand fully.
> 
> i have been reading every page here on this matter, but i hope you would take 1 minute to answer my question as of what i read you are like a PCT guru
> 
> i have just finnished a cycle of:
> 
> susta 250 ew for 9 weeks
> 
> deca 100 ew for 7 weeks
> 
> winstrol 0,5 eod for 7 weeks
> 
> 30 years old.
> 
> this might sound like a useless cycle to you but i gained 16lbs from it in 9 weeks and it got me where i wanted.
> 
> now, for the question: is clomid enough for pct or would you recommend nolva too?
> 
> i am now 2 weeks after last injection, feel great, balls have not shrunken at all but i feel a little bit shutdown in the sexdrive. Not much but a little un-interested and the morning boner is not what it used to be.
> 
> What would you recommend for pct in a "mild" cycle like this?
> 
> grateful for your answer!
> 
> /4fingers


You feel fine probably because the sust is still in your system to some extent.

You could probably get away with 100mg of clomid for 2 weeks, then 2 weeks at 50mg, and 20mg of nolva for like 4 to 5 weeks.

That is providing testicular function has not been hindered too much, this the main reason why I suggest HCG during any cycle to keep testicular function.


----------



## 4fingers

hackskii said:


> You feel fine probably because the sust is still in your system to some extent.
> 
> You could probably get away with 100mg of clomid for 2 weeks, then 2 weeks at 50mg, and 20mg of nolva for like 4 to 5 weeks.
> 
> That is providing testicular function has not been hindered too much, this the main reason why I suggest HCG during any cycle to keep testicular function.


Thanks alot bro! Yes you are probably right that the sust is still in me, although is been a little over 2 weeks. I thought i wouldnt need hcg due to the small cycle so what happens if the balls are not functioning, how do i Get them alive and well again? Am i screwed?

Ill start the pct now

thx Hackskii


----------



## hackskii

4fingers said:


> Thanks alot bro! Yes you are probably right that the sust is still in me, although is been a little over 2 weeks. I thought i wouldnt need hcg due to the small cycle so what happens if the balls are not functioning, how do i Get them alive and well again? Am i screwed?
> 
> Ill start the pct now
> 
> thx Hackskii


Nah, just take a bit longer to get things working again.


----------



## pizz12

hello hackskii. much respect for your job here! im doing a 6 week Tbol cycle at 60/60/70/70/80/80 and proviron 75mg ED. after some help from the guys in here i came up that 250ius of HCG / week would help recovery. also for PCT i was looking at 3 weeks of clomid 50/50/25 , DAA 3 gr/ED , 5000ius of D3/ED . do you think nolva is necessary ??? thanks in advance !

EDIT: was thinking about 6-bromo (for PCT) also !


----------



## hackskii

pizz12 said:


> hello hackskii. much respect for your job here! im doing a 6 week Tbol cycle at 60/60/70/70/80/80 and proviron 75mg ED. after some help from the guys in here i came up that 250ius of HCG / week would help recovery. also for PCT i was looking at 3 weeks of clomid 50/50/25 , DAA 3 gr/ED , 5000ius of D3/ED . do you think nolva is necessary ??? thanks in advance !
> 
> EDIT: was thinking about 6-bromo (for PCT) also !


No bromo bro, leave that out.

Well, some injections during your cycle of HCG may or may not even be needed, but it could make recovery easier, but probably not even necessary.


----------



## pizz12

hackskii said:


> No bromo bro, leave that out.
> 
> Well, some injections during your cycle of HCG may or may not even be needed, but it could make recovery easier, but probably not even necessary.


roger that, bromo out.

so what are you suggesting? it can do no harm to go with them anyway right? im the guy that is better be safe than sorry  and i already have 1000 ius on hand wouldnt be much of a deal get 500 ius more for a whole 6 weeks of 250/week. your thoughts of leaving nolva out of my PCT ??


----------



## hackskii

Its fine, and will leave endo production working so you will feel better, and probably get better gains as well.


----------



## pizz12

many thanks for your time mate !


----------



## McGuire86

hackskii said:


> Short cycles probably wont need HCG.
> 
> Long cycles probably will.
> 
> Some compounds like deca have the ability to shut down hard, and long, so HCG there probably for sure.
> 
> If one keeps testicular function during the cycle, the recovery will be easier after the cycle and into PCT.
> 
> But there are many variables here, and also depends on the person.


So Hackskii,

If one was to run 500mg of Test 400 for 12 weeks with a dbol kick start @ 40mg ed for 4 weeks (with adex 0.25 eod);

would HCG @ 1000iu from week 3 - 12, then 3 weeks after last pin run Clomid @ 100/100/50/50 + Nolva @ 20/20/20/20 be sufficient ?

Thanks in advanced mate.


----------



## hackskii

I think you should run the HCG starting week 2 and run it past week 12 into week 15, then start the clomid and nolva at doses you suggested.


----------



## McGuire86

hackskii said:


> I think you should run the HCG starting week 2 and run it past week 12 into week 15, then start the clomid and nolva at doses you suggested.


Would running the HCG from weeks 12-15 be a greater advantage as to stopping it at week 12 ? I don't mind doing it if it is essential, however if I could get away with not doing it for those extra 3 weeks then I would.

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

McGuire86 said:


> Would running the HCG from weeks 12-15 be a greater advantage as to stopping it at week 12 ? I don't mind doing it if it is essential, however if I could get away with not doing it for those extra 3 weeks then I would.
> 
> Thanks


Sure, while that gear is clearing your system you are still being shut down from high androgens, so yah, why take it off at week 12 to stop the nuts from working while the gear is clearing?

It may even take a bit longer than 3 weeks for 500mg of test to reach natty levels anyway, might as well keep them stimulated while you are waiting.


----------



## McGuire86

hackskii said:


> Sure, while that gear is clearing your system you are still being shut down from high androgens, so yah, why take it off at week 12 to stop the nuts from working while the gear is clearing?
> 
> It may even take a bit longer than 3 weeks for 500mg of test to reach natty levels anyway, might as well keep them stimulated while you are waiting.


Yeah, totally makes sense.

Thanks for that mate, will get some extra HCG to run weeks 13-15. This is my first cycle so just want everything to be as sound as it can possibly be


----------



## James21

I intend to be doing this -

clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.

nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.

HCG 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).

at the end of my cycle in 3 weeks, is it worth adding prov too?

Thanks

James


----------



## hackskii

James21 said:


> I intend to be doing this -
> 
> clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> HCG 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> at the end of my cycle in 3 weeks, is it worth adding prov too?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> James


Not really.


----------



## justinm74

Excellent read and info.

Many thanks mate :thumbup1:


----------



## coneilly

one of my first reads. thanks


----------



## BigRedSwitch

Hey, @hackskii - I've read your posts, and they're great! I'm a beginner to AAS (doing my first test-e cycle now @500mg/2ml Burr Labs per week). I have Adex, which I'm going to start taking to suppress oestrogen at around week 3.

The cycle is 12-15 weeks long (dependent on how much I can get from the vials!  ), but I want to get all my stuff ready for PCT, as this stuff is sometimes difficult to get hold of.

Would your doses be appropriate for 500mg test-e? If so, what dosage of HGC would you suggest (this seems to be the only variable in your regimen)? Also, what is the protocol for mixing this to the right dosage with BSW?

Thanks in advance for any advice on this - whilst I'm not planning on having any more kids (2 is EASILY enough for me!!), I do wanna bring the boys back online so I don't lose my gains!


----------



## benki11

hackskii said:


> Sure, while that gear is clearing your system you are still being shut down from high androgens, so yah, why take it off at week 12 to stop the nuts from working while the gear is clearing?
> 
> It may even take a bit longer than 3 weeks for 500mg of test to reach natty levels anyway, might as well keep them stimulated while you are waiting.


Hi Hask

You said to keep using hcg until testo.. Clears ,but what about this guideline is this wrong?

Quote

"If you are doing the on-cycle hcg protocol it is important to discontinue hcg 2 weeks prior to anabolic steroids clearance. Therefore, when you officially start PCT you will be clean of all anabolic steroids's and will be 14 days from your last hcg shot. This allows your testes to become re-sensitized to the body's lh - leutenizing hormone - signal from the brain, making for a quick recovery of natural testosterone production as soon as the steroids and hcg clear the system. This is another reason why on-cycle hcg is superior, because it allows you to start recovering as soon as PCT begins. "

Thank you sir


----------



## hackskii

BigRedSwitch said:


> Hey, @hackskii - I've read your posts, and they're great! I'm a beginner to AAS (doing my first test-e cycle now @500mg/2ml Burr Labs per week). I have Adex, which I'm going to start taking to suppress oestrogen at around week 3.
> 
> The cycle is 12-15 weeks long (dependent on how much I can get from the vials!  ), but I want to get all my stuff ready for PCT, as this stuff is sometimes difficult to get hold of.
> 
> Would your doses be appropriate for 500mg test-e? If so, what dosage of HGC would you suggest (this seems to be the only variable in your regimen)? Also, what is the protocol for mixing this to the right dosage with BSW?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice on this - whilst I'm not planning on having any more kids (2 is EASILY enough for me!!), I do wanna bring the boys back online so I don't lose my gains!


500mg of test a week is fine, but first cycle I would suggest just 12 weeks max, then see how you recover.

Mix with bac water, use 500iu twice a week throughout your cycle, and I mix just 1ml per 500iu then just shoot 1/10th of a ml for 500iu



benki11 said:


> Hi Hask
> 
> You said to keep using hcg until testo.. Clears ,but what about this guideline is this wrong?
> 
> Quote
> 
> "If you are doing the on-cycle hcg protocol it is important to discontinue hcg 2 weeks prior to anabolic steroids clearance. Therefore, when you officially start PCT you will be clean of all anabolic steroids's and will be 14 days from your last hcg shot. This allows your testes to become re-sensitized to the body's lh - leutenizing hormone - signal from the brain, making for a quick recovery of natural testosterone production as soon as the steroids and hcg clear the system. This is another reason why on-cycle hcg is superior, because it allows you to start recovering as soon as PCT begins. "
> 
> Thank you sir


Well, you see the problem with this is a math problem.

The body does not know the difference from HCG, or LH, so the lack of stimulation actually would hinder recovery, not aid in recovery.

The pituitary comes back far faster than the nuts, and if nuts are kept alive during the cycle, then really only the pituitary becomes an issue, and with clomid stimulating the pituitary, that should not be a problem.

If the nuts are the prime hindrance for recovery, why leave the HCG out while the gear clears?

Not only that but you have a bigger chance of a crash with no stimulation of testosterone while the exogenous testosterone or steroids are leaving your system.


----------



## dannyp90

Regarding hcg use, I can't refrigerate hcg so could I pin 1500ui of hcg once a week, then at the end of the cycle use another 1500ui m/w/f for 2 weeks? Obviously usin both nolva and clomid?


----------



## hackskii

dannyp90 said:


> Regarding hcg use, I can't refrigerate hcg so could I pin 1500ui of hcg once a week, then at the end of the cycle use another 1500ui m/w/f for 2 weeks? Obviously usin both nolva and clomid?


What gear are you planning on using?

How long is your cycle going to be?


----------



## Guest

Always intrigued about gear and PCT since joining this forum.

What a read that was!


----------



## TONY C

hi im coming up to finishing my first cycle of test and i was wondering what i should take now

im 43 and been inj 500 of test per week. ive been told i will be ok to just stop taking it and ile be ok but what do you recomend as people have so many different opinions

thank you


----------



## hackskii

TONY C said:


> hi im coming up to finishing my first cycle of test and i was wondering what i should take now
> 
> im 43 and been inj 500 of test per week. ive been told i will be ok to just stop taking it and ile be ok but what do you recomend as people have so many different opinions
> 
> thank you


How long you been on 500mg per week?


----------



## TONY C

ive been on it 12 weeks mate. got some good results.

some lads say just stay on the test and i domt need time off but that seems scary


----------



## IGETITIN310

Any advice on 50mg Ed anavar with nolvadex for pct


----------



## pizz12

hello there. im finishing my 6 week tbol / proviron soon. dosage was 70/80/80/80/80/100 of tbol and 75/75/75/75/75/100 of proviron. had great results and as for sides maybe balls are a little bit smaller. im planning to end cycle , wait 1 day and then start my PCT which will be 3 weeks of clomid 150/100/50 , 3gr DAA/day , D3 5000 ius/day taken with last meal. i will keep my diet the same, lots if vegies,really low carbs and 3,5 gr of protein per kg. how does it look ??


----------



## hackskii

TONY C said:


> hi im coming up to finishing my first cycle of test and i was wondering what i should take now
> 
> im 43 and been inj 500 of test per week. ive been told i will be ok to just stop taking it and ile be ok but what do you recomend as people have so many different opinions
> 
> thank you


You could just stop, but after 12 weeks of 500mg per week, you ma,y or may not crash.

I would have ran some HCG with that during to keep testicular function.

A bit late in the game to make decisions on weather to stop, or try to recover using a PCT.



IGETITIN310 said:


> Any advice on 50mg Ed anavar with nolvadex for pct


That is not a PCT, using steroids during PCT wont allow you to recover.

I would drop the var, and add in clomid to the nolva.



pizz12 said:


> hello there. im finishing my 6 week tbol / proviron soon. dosage was 70/80/80/80/80/100 of tbol and 75/75/75/75/75/100 of proviron. had great results and as for sides maybe balls are a little bit smaller. im planning to end cycle , wait 1 day and then start my PCT which will be 3 weeks of clomid 150/100/50 , 3gr DAA/day , D3 5000 ius/day taken with last meal. i will keep my diet the same, lots if vegies,really low carbs and 3,5 gr of protein per kg. how does it look ??


I would lower the clomid to 100 week 1 and run that at 100mg for 3 weeks.


----------



## TONY C

hi im coming up to finishing my first cycle of test and i was wondering what i should take now

im 43 and been inj 500 of test per week. ive been told i will be ok to just stop taking it and ile be ok but what do you recomend as people have so many different opinions

thank you

You could just stop, but after 12 weeks of 500mg per week, you ma,y or may not crash.

I would have ran some HCG with that during to keep testicular function.

A bit late in the game to make decisions on weather to stop, or try to recover using a PCT.

yeah i relise this now. i think the advice iv been given

was misleading. thank you for your replies but what

would you recomend i do now as the thought of damaging

me old testicles scares the life out of me. (up to now ive had no

problems with them)


----------



## hackskii

Power PCT

2500iu HCG EOD x 8

100mg clomid for 30 days ED.

20mg nolva for 45 days

I would also take 5000iu vitamin D ED.


----------



## monkeez

Hackskii i'm after some advice please on my plan below.

I've been running my course for just under 6 months now (didnt originally plan that long but it worked out this way)

For the last 10 weeks i've been running 500mg Test E and 300mg Mast Prop per week.

I've also been running 1000iu of HCG per week throughout.

I have Nolva, Clomid, DAA, 5000iu Vit D tabs and high strength Omega 3 for my PCT.

My PCT plan is:

Clomid - 100/100/50/50

Nolva - 40/40/20/20

Vit D tab once a day

DAA 3g per day

Do you think this looks ok?

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

I hate long cycles but run the clomid for 100 for 3 weeks then 50 a week for even up to 2 weeks more.

Run the nolva at 20mg max, no need for 40mg.

May want to run DHEA at 25mg max a day for a month.


----------



## monkeez

Thanks Hackskii

So i'd be taking DAA and DHEA?

Not doing a long cycle again. I only did this time due to upcoming holidays.


----------



## hackskii

monkeez said:


> Thanks Hackskii
> 
> So i'd be taking DAA and DHEA?
> 
> Not doing a long cycle again. I only did this time due to upcoming holidays.


Yes, DHEA is an adrenal supplement, long cycles tax the CNS, so that would be to aid in recovery of the CNS, but 25mg max a day on that one.

DAA is something altogether different, and actually not necessary, it gives me gastric distress.


----------



## monkeez

Thanks Hackskii, much appreciated


----------



## Slater8486

@hackskii

Hackskii am just about to start PCT Clomid / Nolva using Biker protocols http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/24947-pct-clomid-when-how-much-etc.html

I used HCG through out cycle but still have 5000iu you left, is there any need for me to hit a massive blast today as well as taking my clomid Nolva as I've reserach people do this then others say it will just stop your own body creating the LH hormone so leave it..?

You thoughts would be appreicated!


----------



## Slater8486

Bump


----------



## hackskii

Slater8486 said:


> @hackskii
> 
> Hackskii am just about to start PCT Clomid / Nolva using Biker protocols http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/24947-pct-clomid-when-how-much-etc.html
> 
> I used HCG through out cycle but still have 5000iu you left, is there any need for me to hit a massive blast today as well as taking my clomid Nolva as I've reserach people do this then others say it will just stop your own body creating the LH hormone so leave it..?
> 
> You thoughts would be appreicated!


How much HCG did you use during?

How long was your cycle?

What was your cycle?


----------



## Slater8486

Started HCG week 2 1000iu a week

12 week test e 750mg cycle but had some remaining so did 14 weeks, say last 4 weeks was like 500iu a week then.


----------



## Slater8486

hackskii said:


> How much HCG did you use during?
> 
> How long was your cycle?
> 
> What was your cycle?


Started HCG week 2 1000iu a week

12 week test e 750mg cycle but had some remaining so did 14 weeks, say last 4 weeks was like 500iu a week then.

Then I waited 3 weeks to start PCT which is today where I've had clomid nolva but do have 5000iu HCG remaining so just wondering is there any point of blasting that tonight when I get home.


----------



## hackskii

Well, you can do a shot of HCG and then start your PCT, would have been optimum if you used 1000iu a week throughout till the end, including clearance time of the gear.


----------



## Ubaac

Great thread Hackskii.

If you have the time could you help me with my PCT choices.

(It's my first cycle)

1-3 week dbol 40mg/day

1-8 week test e 500mg /week

Im currently here!! (8 weeks done)

8-12 week test e 500mg/week ( *I have heard that it might be a good idea to go to 750mg/week for the last few weeks?*)

For PCT I have nolva, which i was planning to take 20mg/day starting 3 weeks after last test.

Sadly i can't get hold of Clomid where I live...

My question is with regards to HCG usage and it boils down to 2 options:

1.Start 500ui 2x a week now, so 8-15 week. *If i start HCG now should i pump up the dosage at week 13, when my test is roughly back to normal levels? Also if i start HCG now, should i start 20mg nolva immediately?*

2.Start 1000ui*-?* 2x a week 2-3 weeks after last test and follow your 8 shot regime. (this would go alongside nolva)

Hope you have the time to answer.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## chiqui

V good read


----------



## Ubaac

Bump for reply


----------



## hackskii

Ubaac said:


> Great thread Hackskii.
> 
> If you have the time could you help me with my PCT choices.
> 
> (It's my first cycle)
> 
> 1-3 week dbol 40mg/day
> 
> 1-8 week test e 500mg /week
> 
> Im currently here!! (8 weeks done)
> 
> 8-12 week test e 500mg/week ( *I have heard that it might be a good idea to go to 750mg/week for the last few weeks?*)
> 
> For PCT I have nolva, which i was planning to take 20mg/day starting 3 weeks after last test.
> 
> Sadly i can't get hold of Clomid where I live...
> 
> My question is with regards to HCG usage and it boils down to 2 options:
> 
> 1.Start 500ui 2x a week now, so 8-15 week. *If i start HCG now should i pump up the dosage at week 13, when my test is roughly back to normal levels? Also if i start HCG now, should i start 20mg nolva immediately?*
> 
> 2.Start 1000ui*-?* 2x a week 2-3 weeks after last test and follow your 8 shot regime. (this would go alongside nolva)
> 
> Hope you have the time to answer.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


Well, 8 weeks you probably are already on your way of testicular atrophy.

Probably 1000 iu twice a week for the next 4 weeks and also the 3 weeks you are waiting to start PCT.

I would probably run an AI now, but even that might not be enough HCG.

More could be used like 2000iu twice a week till your last shot, then 1000iu twice a week for the 3 week waiting to start PCT, that should do it.

But, I would for sure run an AI or nolva at 20mg per day and into PCT.

I would source some clomid if it was me.


----------



## pizz12

heya all. im finishing my first week of PCT which is clomid 100/100/100 as hackskii suggested. the thing is that i went on vacation and ****ed up my dose so i missed one day and my morning dose of clomid. should i ignore the day missed and just take 100mg of clomind in the evening?? thanks in advance


----------



## The doog

Hi Hackskii.

I'm just about to start a pretty standard test e cycle with hcg and armidex run throughout. Can I run a pct such as: clomid 100mg ed for a week then 50mg for the next 14 days. Nolva at 20mg ed for 21 days then drop down to 10 for another week?

Is that sufficient or shall I get hold of more meds and run the extra week of each?


----------



## hackskii

The doog said:


> Hi Hackskii.
> 
> I'm just about to start a pretty standard test e cycle with hcg and armidex run throughout. Can I run a pct such as: clomid 100mg ed for a week then 50mg for the next 14 days. Nolva at 20mg ed for 21 days then drop down to 10 for another week?
> 
> Is that sufficient or shall I get hold of more meds and run the extra week of each?


I would run a few weeks on the clomid myself, and perhaps a month on the nolva.


----------



## The doog

Cheers for the reply. I've got enough for clomid 100/50/50 and nolva 20/20/20/20. Is that enough clonus or shall I get some more and run three weeks at 50?


----------



## hackskii

The doog said:


> Cheers for the reply. I've got enough for clomid 100/50/50 and nolva 20/20/20/20. Is that enough clonus or shall I get some more and run three weeks at 50?


How long are you going to run your cycle for?

How much and what are the compounds?


----------



## The doog

Test e 500mg for 12 weeks. Hcg 2 shots 500iu per week up to pct. AI used full cycle.


----------



## hackskii

I would run the clomid at 100mg for 3 weeks, at least 2 weeks then 50mg for 2 weeks.


----------



## The doog

Cheers hackskii I'll get some more.


----------



## chelios

Running PCT after PHs is no disadvantage is it? Even if some say it's not required.


----------



## hackskii

chelios said:


> Running PCT after PHs is no disadvantage is it? Even if some say it's not required.


No disadvantage, in fact will help lipid profiles.


----------



## chelios

hackskii said:


> No disadvantage, in fact will help lipid profiles.


Thanks for clearing that up mate!


----------



## bradc

This is my plan (1st cycle)

1-12 sus300 2ml (600mg per week)

1-13 anastrozole---arimidex 0.5mg every 3 days up if nips itch

1-6 dbol 40mg ED

3 weeks after last pin

Clomid 100/100/50/50

Novla 20/20/20/20

Would I need hcg or not???


----------



## Stunner

If a person cycle was....

Weeks 1-36 500mg Test E

Weeks 37-49 600mg Test Cyp, 400mg Tren E & 400mg Mast E

Weeks 50-54 500mg Test E

What PCT would people recommend. HGC not been taken at all during cycle.


----------



## hackskii

bradc said:


> This is my plan (1st cycle)
> 
> 1-12 sus300 2ml (600mg per week)
> 
> 1-13 anastrozole---arimidex 0.5mg every 3 days up if nips itch
> 
> 1-6 dbol 40mg ED
> 
> 3 weeks after last pin
> 
> Clomid 100/100/50/50
> 
> Novla 20/20/20/20
> 
> Would I need hcg or not???


I would use the HCG.



Stunner said:


> If a person cycle was....
> 
> Weeks 1-36 500mg Test E
> 
> Weeks 37-49 600mg Test Cyp, 400mg Tren E & 400mg Mast E
> 
> Weeks 50-54 500mg Test E
> 
> What PCT would people recommend. HGC not been taken at all during cycle.


I dont like that cycle, too long.


----------



## Stunner

hackskii said:


> I dont like that cycle, too long.


I know it is sir but if someone screwed up & was on that long running the compounds posted and they wanted to come off for good, in your humble opinion what would be best PCT for them? Cheers


----------



## hackskii

Stunner said:


> I know it is sir but if someone screwed up & was on that long running the compounds posted and they wanted to come off for good, in your humble opinion what would be best PCT for them? Cheers


You see many guys make stupid decisions then ask for help.

I will save this question for the fool that puts himself in this situation, wont do hypothetical's here.

The protocol would have much to do with during the cycle, and perhaps drugs most have not heard of.

But, I would never embrace this logic for anyone.


----------



## Stunner

hackskii said:


> You see many guys make stupid decisions then ask for help.
> 
> I will save this question for the fool that puts himself in this situation, wont do hypothetical's here.
> 
> The protocol would have much to do with during the cycle, and perhaps drugs most have not heard of.
> 
> But, I would never embrace this logic for anyone.


Okay, I'm the idiot.... I have been on for far too long at 36 weeks already, especially for a first cycle.

*Cycle Details:*

Weeks 1-2 Frontloaded Test E @ 1200mg

Weeks 3-36 Test E @ 500mg (last 500mg pin was last Saturday)

Adex @ .5mg eod throughout and up to planned PCT

*Sides Details:*

No atrophy.

No itchy nipples.

No hair loss.

Libido good.

Weeks 1-12 resulted in a few deep spots on scalp.

Weeks 1-10 my balls felt uncomfortably tight.

I am 36 years old.

*Proposed PCT Plan:*

Weeks 37 Test E @ 250mg (tapered dose)

Week 40 - 43 HCG @ 6000iu/week, Clomid @ 100mg ED, Nolva 20mg ED, cease Adex @ .5mg

week 44-45......Clomid 100mg ED + Nolva 20mg ED

week 6.....Nolva @ 20mg ED

I am very much asking for help....


----------



## hackskii

Stunner said:


> Okay, I'm the idiot.... I have been on for far too long at 36 weeks already, especially for a first cycle.
> 
> *Cycle Details:*
> 
> Weeks 1-2 Frontloaded Test E @ 1200mg
> 
> Weeks 3-36 Test E @ 500mg (last 500mg pin was last Saturday)
> 
> Adex @ .5mg eod throughout and up to planned PCT
> 
> *Sides Details:*
> 
> No atrophy.
> 
> No itchy nipples.
> 
> No hair loss.
> 
> Libido good.
> 
> Weeks 1-12 resulted in a few deep spots on scalp.
> 
> Weeks 1-10 my balls felt uncomfortably tight.
> 
> I am 36 years old.
> 
> *Proposed PCT Plan:*
> 
> Weeks 37 Test E @ 250mg (tapered dose)
> 
> Week 40 - 43 HCG @ 6000iu/week, Clomid @ 100mg ED, Nolva 20mg ED, cease Adex @ .5mg
> 
> week 44-45......Clomid 100mg ED + Nolva 20mg ED
> 
> week 6.....Nolva @ 20mg ED
> 
> I am very much asking for help....


Well, you did not run any HCG during so you will need it now.

Just run the power PCT and see how you do.

Problem with what you are intending to do would be ok but you probably wont be able to run that much clomid for that long without the sides.

The amount of HCG would be about right, but 5 weeks of clomid would wipe out my vision.

I would like you to run Vitamin D at 5000iu as well during all this, this will help the HCG do its job better.

4 weeks of the clomid at 100mg a day would be ok, and even that gives me vision issues.

You could run 50mg a day for the first 2 weeks of your plan along with the nolva, then run the 100mg a day for 3 weeks.

But, HCG cripples LH and even on 100mg a day of clomid LH wont be there, FSH yes, but not LH, so you need around 2 to 3 weeks minimum post HCG use to fire the pituitary with the clomid.

See how the math gets more difficult here with the long cycles?

If you wanted help in the beginning then you should have asked up front, not beat around the bush.

Don't forget the vitamin D at the dose recommended.

No AI during the PCT either.


----------



## aman_21

is rohm pct any good?


----------



## Alanricksnape

Hey Hackskii, admirable knowledge and advice. I haven't used VitD during HCG, that was one thing I had noted to order having seen you recommend it, but foolishly forgot when I was acquiring what I needed. Would it still be beneficial to order some and run it during Clomid therapy with the Tamoxifen? I am about to finish my HCG and start taking Clomid and Tamoxifen. I had seen some say to use the Clomid during HCG and others say it's pointless until after using HCG so had decided I will simply start taking the Clomid on the day I pin the last of my HCG. No real bad sides so far since coming off cycle. The libido is still there just not as aggressive as it was and still getting morning wood. Slightly achy testes now and then since HCG usage.


----------



## hackskii

aman_21 said:


> is rohm pct any good?


Its ok but you will need to run the clomid at 100mg a day so ROHM is only 50mg from what I remember, so using 2 tabs a day is not necessary as that will bump up the nolva to 40mg a day and that is too much.

Get some clomid and add to the caps.



Alanricksnape said:


> Hey Hackskii, admirable knowledge and advice. I haven't used VitD during HCG, that was one thing I had noted to order having seen you recommend it, but foolishly forgot when I was acquiring what I needed. Would it still be beneficial to order some and run it during Clomid therapy with the Tamoxifen? I am about to finish my HCG and start taking Clomid and Tamoxifen. I had seen some say to use the Clomid during HCG and others say it's pointless until after using HCG so had decided I will simply start taking the Clomid on the day I pin the last of my HCG. No real bad sides so far since coming off cycle. The libido is still there just not as aggressive as it was and still getting morning wood. Slightly achy testes now and then since HCG usage.


OK, one problem is that FSH is helpful for leydig cells, clomid will work on FSH during HCG, but not LH.

In face I have seen FSH in range, and LH at .1 which is way out of range at the end of HCG, while the guys testosterone levels were in range right in the middle.

So, fine line between getting the FSH up to support leydig cells, yet clomid wont move LH while on HCG.

My thinking could run clomid at lower dose during HCG, then higher dose once no influence of HCG to fire the pituitary.

I am on the fence with this one, and due to the fact clomid can have some pretty bad vision sides at the end of the PCT, not sure which way I would go.


----------



## hackskii

aman_21 said:


> Cheers mate, thought it was good as a all in one, only doing my first cycle shortly with trenavar, would you still reccomend having an extra 50mg of clomid


What is in that and how much are you going to take, and how long?

Is it tren and anavar?

Methyl tren and anavar perhaps?

I am not aware of that mix, but to me, every cycle should have some testosterone in it.

Just my opinion, one of which I will share why if you like?


----------



## Stunner

hackskii said:


> Well, you did not run any HCG during so you will need it now.
> 
> Don't forget the vitamin D at the dose recommended.


Will get HGC and Vit D.



hackskii said:


> If you wanted help in the beginning then you should have asked up front, not beat around the bush.


Point taken...

Do you think it is worth pinning a last shot of a tapering dose of Test E at 250mg for one week only?

Cheers BTW, appreciate it.


----------



## hackskii

Stunner said:


> Will get HGC and Vit D.
> 
> Point taken...
> 
> Do you think it is worth pinning a last shot of a tapering dose of Test E at 250mg for one week only?
> 
> Cheers BTW, appreciate it.


Well, probably not, and the sooner you come off the better.


----------



## Alanricksnape

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Really appreciate your advice. I think I have pretty much missed the boat with using the Clomid at a low dose with hcg as I do my last pin tomorrow so it will only be the back end of it while it clears that will interfere with the Clomid. I will do the standard 100/100/50/50 and then taper off alongside tamoxifen. Thanks again for your insight mate. Now I just hope to recover nicely with what I am doing.


----------



## Stunner

hackskii said:


> Well, probably not, and the sooner you come off the better.


No worries.

Cheers! x


----------



## -aurora

The following is my next planned cycle

week 1 - 10 600mg test E split @ 2 x 300mg shots

week 1 - 6 dbol 40mg ED

week 3 - 10 hcg @ 1000iu per week 2 x 500iu shots

week 1 - 10 adex .5mg EOD

3 weeks clearance

week 11 - 13 hcg @ 1000iu per week 2 x 500iu shots

week 11 - 13 adex .5mg EOD

pct

week 12-17 nolva 45 days @ 20mg ed

week 12-15 clomid 30 days @ 100mg ed

week 12-14 hcg 8 x 2500iu EOD

Also Vit D throughout

Just wanted to get peoples input on my pct. My main concern is I might be overdoing the Hcg.


----------



## hackskii

-aurora said:


> The following is my next planned cycle
> 
> week 1 - 10 600mg test E split @ 2 x 300mg shots
> 
> week 1 - 6 dbol 40mg ED
> 
> week 3 - 10 hcg @ 1000iu per week 2 x 500iu shots
> 
> week 1 - 10 adex .5mg EOD
> 
> 3 weeks clearance
> 
> week 11 - 13 hcg @ 1000iu per week 2 x 500iu shots
> 
> week 11 - 13 adex .5mg EOD
> 
> pct
> 
> week 12-17 nolva 45 days @ 20mg ed
> 
> week 12-15 clomid 30 days @ 100mg ed
> 
> week 12-14 hcg 8 x 2500iu EOD
> 
> Also Vit D throughout
> 
> Just wanted to get peoples input on my pct. My main concern is I might be overdoing the Hcg.


That is fine, no need to split the gear shots up, 600mg once a week will be fine, and less scar tissue.


----------



## sunn

hackskii said:


> That is fine, no need to split the gear shots up, 600mg once a week will be fine, and less scar tissue.


Would you recommend someone use hcg throughout cycle or in larger amounts at the end?

Also if someone has used it through cycle why would they need to use it in pct?

Thank you.


----------



## hackskii

sunn said:


> Would you recommend someone use hcg throughout cycle or in larger amounts at the end?
> 
> Also if someone has used it through cycle why would they need to use it in pct?
> 
> Thank you.


Sure you can use it during, and probably should, keeping the nuts alive is a good thing.


----------



## sunn

hackskii said:


> Sure you can use it during, and probably should, keeping the nuts alive is a good thing.


And the just do the usual nolva and clomid pct if administering hcg throughout cycle?


----------



## hackskii

sunn said:


> And the just do the usual nolva and clomid pct if administering hcg throughout cycle?


Yes, that would be fine providing one had testicular function.


----------



## chelios

Hackskii, need some advice please mate. In two minds for a next single cycle. What would be best PCT for a Tbol cycle? Did it before a few years ago. Nolva and Clomid after.

I'll probably run tbol at 80mg to 100mg per day. What would your advice be. For good keep able gains and to avoid Geno was much as possible.

Also if I go down the pro hormone route and use Epi, should I do PCt too?

Cheers


----------



## hackskii

Well, I would be the wrong person to ask a bout Epi, or other pro-hormones/designer steroids.

Short cycles are pretty tame for recovery, oral cycles probably should be kept short for lipid issues, and liver issues.


----------



## krisg

Hi, Great thread. 100% newbie to this and just started a 10 week cycle of only tri test 400, 3 x 1ml shots per week. Will the pct greatly effect me and if so what should I be using. Thanks in advance. Kris


----------



## hackskii

krisg said:


> Hi, Great thread. 100% newbie to this and just started a 10 week cycle of only tri test 400, 3 x 1ml shots per week. Will the pct greatly effect me and if so what should I be using. Thanks in advance. Kris


You are shooting that 3 times a week?

3 x 400 = 1200mg a week?

First cycle?


----------



## krisg

hi,you got me worried now lol.

I take 1ml every mon/wed/fri, 3ml per week, of tri test 400. which has, 50mg trenbolone acetate, 50mg trenbolone enanthate, 50mg trenbolone hex', 50mg test propionate and 200mg test cypionate.

about 6 months ago I had a bottle to start a cycle but had to stop but did see results from only that 1 bottle. I have now decided to do a 10 wk cycle so stocked up. Does this not sound right?

Thanks for your quick reply

Kris


----------



## hackskii

150mg tren ace

150mg tren enanthate

150mg tren hex

150mg test prop

600mg test cyp

Wow, well that is a total of 450mg of tren a week, and 750mg test a week, a bit much for a first cycle.

Well, the gains will be good, keep an eye on blood pressure.

Not sure about the PCT you are asking me about, guess I am not following the question.


----------



## krisg

Cheers, do you think I should lower the dose or just use maybe twice a week?

PCT: was just wondering if I needed clomid after what im using

kris


----------



## hackskii

krisg said:


> Cheers, do you think I should lower the dose or just use maybe twice a week?
> 
> PCT: was just wondering if I needed clomid after what im using
> 
> kris


I still would use HCG at 500iu twice a week throughout, then clomid can be used for PCT, and perhaps a bit of nolva as well.


----------



## krisg

Appreciate your help and time, thanks

Kris


----------



## CC12

Hi all. If anyone could answer this it would be appreciated. Iv just done a 10 week cycle of sus 250 and materon at 2 injections of each twice per week. I am gonna start nolvadex for my pcp. How long after pcp should I wait before starting another cycle?? Thanks


----------



## CC12

Sorry the stack I was looking to go on is cypionate, deca and dbol.


----------



## hackskii

I would use HCG during the cycle if it was me.

And for your question, nobody can answer that one.


----------



## CC12

Thanks for the response hackskii, I was going to use arimidex


----------



## paulow

with hcg do you think it would be harmful to use expired stuff, it hasnt been mixed yet but is 2 and a half years past expiry... i was thinking it might have just lost some potency but dont see it being harmful. any opinions?


----------



## hackskii

paulow said:


> with hcg do you think it would be harmful to use expired stuff, it hasnt been mixed yet but is 2 and a half years past expiry... i was thinking it might have just lost some potency but dont see it being harmful. any opinions?


If kept in cool dry place I think it may be fine.

I used stuff that old before.


----------



## GJayy

Hi Hacksii,

am trying to send you a pm, but can't seem to....could really use your opinion on the way my PCT is going. I'm on my second go at using your HCG/Clom/Nolva protocol (take my last shot of 2500iu and REALLY want to make sure it works as libido is in the gutter at the moment.


----------



## hackskii

GJayy said:


> Hi Hacksii,
> 
> am trying to send you a pm, but can't seem to....could really use your opinion on the way my PCT is going. I'm on my second go at using your HCG/Clom/Nolva protocol (take my last shot of 2500iu and REALLY want to make sure it works as libido is in the gutter at the moment.


Post all your information here, and lets just look at where you are at.


----------



## blame10

Hi.

I'm about to start my very first cycle of Test Enanthate (10-12 weeks). I'm not sure if I will do 250 or 500mg per week yet, what do you think a first time user should do?

So far I've got Nolvadex on the way. Do you think I should use Clomid as well? What about HCG, is it necessary? What kind of dosage(s) should I use?

I really appreciate this thread. Thanks in advance


----------



## Lewthy

blame10 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm about to start my very first cycle of Test Enanthate (10-12 weeks). I'm not sure if I will do 250 or 500mg per week yet, what do you think a first time user should do?
> 
> So far I've got Nolvadex on the way. Do you think I should use Clomid as well? What about HCG, is it necessary? What kind of dosage(s) should I use?
> 
> I really appreciate this thread. Thanks in advance


Use 500mg as imo 250mg isn't enough, most start on 400/500mg as a first cycle.

Use Clomid alongside Nolva.

Read Mars post about HCG at the top of this board, use HCG at 1000iu per week injections up until you start your PCT.


----------



## hackskii

blame10 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm about to start my very first cycle of Test Enanthate (10-12 weeks). I'm not sure if I will do 250 or 500mg per week yet, what do you think a first time user should do?
> 
> So far I've got Nolvadex on the way. Do you think I should use Clomid as well? What about HCG, is it necessary? What kind of dosage(s) should I use?
> 
> I really appreciate this thread. Thanks in advance


10 weeks @ 500mg per week, either in one injection or twice a week, either way is fine.

HCG @ 500iu twice a week throughout, and including the clearance time of the gear which should be around 3 weeks.

Nolva at 20mg for 30 days, 100mg clomid for 3 weeks.


----------



## blame10

I read that injecting HCG during the cycle OR after you are done with the cycle are both ok ways to do it. Is it just preference? I don't mind letting my nuts being on a vacation for 10 weeks.

If I start using it post-cycle, do I use it at 500iu twice a week for 10 weeks for a total of 10000iu? Thanks again for the help!


----------



## Ginger Ben

blame10 said:


> I read that injecting HCG during the cycle OR after you are done with the cycle are both ok ways to do it. Is it just preference? I don't mind letting my nuts being on a vacation for 10 weeks.
> 
> If I start using it post-cycle, do I use it at 500iu twice a week for 10 weeks for a total of 10000iu? Thanks again for the help!


Prevention is better than cure. This is true of shutting your nuts down as much as anything else. Use hcg on cycle mate at 1000ius a week. It's much easier to recover. I've tried it both ways and it works much better on cycle ime.

No to your second question, Thats not how you run it post cycle.


----------



## blame10

Ginger Ben said:


> Prevention is better than cure. This is true of shutting your nuts down as much as anything else. Use hcg on cycle mate at 1000ius a week. It's much easier to recover. I've tried it both ways and it works much better on cycle ime.
> 
> No to your second question, Thats not how you run it post cycle.


So, 1000iu per week split up in two injections for 10 weeks straight/same duration as the Test E cycle?

Thanks Ben. This thread is a lifesaver


----------



## Ginger Ben

blame10 said:


> So, 1000iu per week split up in two injections for 10 weeks straight/same duration as the Test E cycle?
> 
> Thanks Ben. This thread is a lifesaver


You can jab it in one mate or twice if you want, some people prefer one way some another. I'd start it at the begining of your cycle and run to the start of your PCT. So if cycle is 10 weeks and you start pct 3 weeks later then run the HCG for 13 weeks.


----------



## Lewthy

blame10 said:


> So, 1000iu per week split up in two injections for 10 weeks straight/same duration as the Test E cycle?
> 
> Thanks Ben. This thread is a lifesaver


Run HCG upto when you start your PCT on week 13.

You can mix it into one injection but a lot of people inject test IM and HCG sub-q


----------



## blame10

SD said:


> YOu wait the required clearance times for the drugs you have taken, usually around two weeks, then begin.
> 
> Hacks protocol is this:
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days


I think I've got a pretty decent idea of how I should go about it now, except I've heard different things about Clomid and Nolvadex.

Do I wait 2-3 weeks or so after my cycle is done before I start taking Clo+Nolva? I'll be taking HCG during the cycle, but what about the tabs?


----------



## hackskii

It depends on the ester, and the amount of gear used in the injection to calculate PCT timing.

I myself shoot sub-q twice a week at 500iu each injection.


----------



## blame10

I know I'm asking a lot of questions here, I apologize but I want to be 100% sure how to proceed before I start my cycle 

What would you do in my situation:

21 years old

88 kg bodyweight, ~15% bodyfat

10-12 week cycle of Test E, 500mg per week

I'll use hCG, Nolva and Clomid.

Really appreciate the help.


----------



## hackskii

blame10 said:


> I know I'm asking a lot of questions here, I apologize but I want to be 100% sure how to proceed before I start my cycle
> 
> What would you do in my situation:
> 
> 21 years old
> 
> 88 kg bodyweight, ~15% bodyfat
> 
> 10-12 week cycle of Test E, 500mg per week
> 
> I'll use hCG, Nolva and Clomid.
> 
> Really appreciate the help.


10 weeks test E at 500mg per week.

HCG throughout at 500iu twice a week starting week 2, and continuing till week 13 (3 weeks from last jab) keep using the HCG.

After the 3 weeks or even 4 weeks clearance time with the use of the HCG in the mix, drop the HCG, then start at 20mg nolva for 4 weeks, and 100mg clomid for 3 weeks.


----------



## monkeez

I'm at the end of my 4th week of PCT and it has been totally fine.

I did an extended 6 month course of Test P & Tren Hex then Test E and Mast Prop with 1000iu a week of HCG from week 3.

My PCT was:

100/100/100/50 clomid

20/20/20/20 nolva

5000iu Vit D3

25mg DHEA

Magnesium and Omega 3.

I definitely think the HCG throughout has helped a hell of a lot.

I was worried leading upto my PCT that i would feel like shiite but i am fine.

Libido has dropped a bit - but i was expecting that.

Nuts are back and hanging well.


----------



## muad

hackskii said:


> Understanding PCT
> 
> PCT, what does it mean?
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy.
> 
> What does it do?
> 
> It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
> 
> How long does it last?
> 
> Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
> 
> Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
> 
> So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
> 
> Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
> 
> The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
> 
> Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
> 
> So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
> 
> OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
> 
> This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
> 
> I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
> 
> So, what can you do?
> 
> First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
> 
> The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
> 
> The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
> 
> If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
> 
> One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
> 
> HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
> 
> Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
> 
> How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
> 
> It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
> 
> Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
> 
> Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
> 
> Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
> 
> What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
> 
> Ok, so lets put this all together.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can do this.
> 
> First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
> 
> Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
> 
> That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
> 
> So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
> 
> You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
> 
> By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
> 
> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
> 
> I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
> 
> If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
> 
> Cheers.


Hi hackskii

Its a nice thread and i never saw a better one about PCT

Im 33 yrs / 5ft 10in/ 170lb

Im consedering testosterone cycle Sustanon 250mg (500mg a week) for 12 weeks

to avoid converting Testosterone to DHT I will be taking Fincar 1.25mg daily>

and also taking Arimidex or Altraz (anti- aromatase) of 0.25 mg daily

also to avoid testicular shut down i will be taking clomid 50 mg EOD

my cycle will be like

Weeks 1-10:

*500mg sustanon per week

*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)

*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)

*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)

Week 11:

*300mg sustanon per week

*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)

*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)

*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)

Week 12:

*200mg sustanon per week

*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)

*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)

*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)

Week 13:

*1.25mg of fincar per day

*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day

*2 tablets clomid every day

Week 14:

*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)

*50mg of clomid every day

what do u think about this PCT? do u recommend something else?

if testicular shut down wont happen do i need HCG?


----------



## hackskii

I dont like the idea of DHT inhibiting drugs, they tend to have terrible sides.

Clomid EOD wont avoid shutdown, not going to happen.

HCG should be used during your cycle to avoid testicular atrophy.

You can run clomid during at 50mg EOD or so even less, but it will do nothing twards LH influence, HCG will cover that one.


----------



## muad

hackskii said:


> I dont like the idea of DHT inhibiting drugs, they tend to have terrible sides.
> 
> Clomid EOD wont avoid shutdown, not going to happen.
> 
> HCG should be used during your cycle to avoid testicular atrophy.
> 
> You can run clomid during at 50mg EOD or so even less, but it will do nothing twards LH influence, HCG will cover that one.


mr hackskii i didnt get it right, im sorry english isnt my mother tongue

so here we go

i will be taking only anti-aromatese during the cycle, and 500iu HCG twice a week

after last injection i will continue HCG at 500iu twice a week for 3 weeks with anti-aromatase

after 3 weeks of last injection i will start clomid and nolva for another 3 weeks

am i right ? :confused1:


----------



## hackskii

HCG is 500iu twice a week starting the second week of your cycle and continue it through out the cycle, and including up to the start day of your PCT which then would be clomid at 100mg per day for 3 weeks, and nolva at 20mg for a month.

AI should be low dose to start and move it up or down depending on the sides of estrogen being too high, or too low.


----------



## muad

thanx boss


----------



## 23jalonso

Hey mate i just finished my first cycle i ran test 400 once a week for 20 weeks with the last 8 weeks stacked with anavar dose of 40 mg a day 2 20 mg pills a day 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon my last shot will have taken place 2 weeks ago this sunday coming up what would be a good pct for me mate?


----------



## hackskii

23jalonso said:


> Hey mate i just finished my first cycle i ran test 400 once a week for 20 weeks with the last 8 weeks stacked with anavar dose of 40 mg a day 2 20 mg pills a day 1 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon my last shot will have taken place 2 weeks ago this sunday coming up what would be a good pct for me mate?


Well, if you have not run HCG, then the power PCT would be my first thing I would do.


----------



## blame10

Hello again.

I've started my cycle and I'm currently 3 weeks in with Test E @ 500mg each week.

I'm starting to feel something in my nipples and I'm afraid it could be gynecomastia. I can barely feel it, but there's definitely something there. What should I do? I've got both Nolva and Clomid, but I've been told it's best to keep them till your PCT.

Really hoping I don't have to stop my cycle early. Any help highly appreciated


----------



## pentium

Hello Hackskii!

I´m coming off from trt (nebido 2½ year of use) and hoping to get my mrs pregnant. I also wan´t to try stop trt and see how I´m doing without it. Doctor ordered to use hcg 5000iu/week (on two shots). Threatment contains 32 shots so it takes 4 months. I´m using anastrozole 2x0,50mg/week. Doc didn´t give me clomiphene. Is 4 months too long time to use hcg and should I get clomiphene? Dos has threatened many patients this way, but I can´t find same protocol wfom these pages. Sorry for my english!


----------



## dreco

blame10 said:


> Hello again.
> 
> I've started my cycle and I'm currently 3 weeks in with Test E @ 500mg each week.
> 
> I'm starting to feel something in my nipples and I'm afraid it could be gynecomastia. I can barely feel it, but there's definitely something there. What should I do? I've got both Nolva and Clomid, but I've been told it's best to keep them till your PCT.
> 
> Really hoping I don't have to stop my cycle early. Any help highly appreciated


You can take nolva at 20mg ED until the end of cycle (buy some more nolva for PCT), or you can take arimidex at 0.5mg E3D or ED depending on your need. That dose can be upped to 1mg ED if gyno is bad.


----------



## hackskii

blame10 said:


> Hello again.
> 
> I've started my cycle and I'm currently 3 weeks in with Test E @ 500mg each week.
> 
> I'm starting to feel something in my nipples and I'm afraid it could be gynecomastia. I can barely feel it, but there's definitely something there. What should I do? I've got both Nolva and Clomid, but I've been told it's best to keep them till your PCT.
> 
> Really hoping I don't have to stop my cycle early. Any help highly appreciated


As above, this is fine.



pentium said:


> Hello Hackskii!
> 
> I´m coming off from trt (nebido 2½ year of use) and hoping to get my mrs pregnant. I also wan´t to try stop trt and see how I´m doing without it. Doctor ordered to use hcg 5000iu/week (on two shots). Threatment contains 32 shots so it takes 4 months. I´m using anastrozole 2x0,50mg/week. Doc didn´t give me clomiphene. Is 4 months too long time to use hcg and should I get clomiphene? Dos has threatened many patients this way, but I can´t find same protocol wfom these pages. Sorry for my english!


Well, he is the doctor.

If he has had success then fine, sounds a bit aggressive to me, and clomid does wonders for FSH which you pretty much need.

Could try the power PCT and give that a shot, and at the end that may not be quite enough, but at least you have something to go on.


----------



## mous12

hey could you check my pct for my upcoming dbol cycle??

cycle:

dbol : 20/30/30/30

proviron: 50/75/75/75

arimidex on hand

PCT

clomid : 100/100/50

nolva : 20/20/10/10

d3 : 5000 ius/day

creatine

thoughts??


----------



## hackskii

It looks ok, is that 3 weeks dbol?


----------



## JonesMan

Lots of good stuff here but pct eludes me haha. Heres my stats and plans

30 years old

187lbs

12% BF

Looking to add some muscle but nothing crazy ( I am and have always been skinny ) years of working out help me build strength but size wants nothing to do with me haha. I have access to Test 400 and EQ 300. I was gonna mix .5ml of each in one pin (.5test plus.5 eq) and take that 2 times a week or every 4 days... so 400 test and 300 eq every 9 days'is

does this sound right for a first cycle?

Now my main concern is the PCT and HCG

I can get clomid and nova but the hcg is like another language to me. Is there any way to dumb this down and feed me the info haha btw I'm lookin to run the test eq for around 12 to 16 weeks, any recommendations?

Thanks for the help guys!!!! If I'm forgetting anything just ask I'll get right back to ya.


----------



## TONY C

Hackskii.or anyone else who wants to help me i wonder if you can guide me in the right direction ,ive been taking 2ml per week of casablancas mix called quadoject ,i know some dont like it but ive had good gains from this ,ive been taking it for 6 weeks now .no gyno ,sex drive is still spot on but ive been taking no pct at all as ive been told i should be ok ,do you think i should be taking anything else with what i take ,also what kind of rest do you think i need after this cycle ..theres a kid in the gym whos been on this for 2 years with no rest from it at all ,hes massive but i dont think that can be good for him do you ..any advice would be great cos all the words and abreaviations you lads use just confuse me ..sorry to bother you but i dont want to bugger my self or damage me nuts and sex life at all ...thank you

tony


----------



## TONY C

come on lads help me out with this one


----------



## hackskii

I have no idea what quadroject is.


----------



## TONY C

quadroject which is 120mg test e. 120mg test cyp. 80mg test prop. 80mg test iso. its had some good reviews and ive had good gains so far ..i just want to do things right but theres so much to take in regarding rest ,gyno etc.i would be grateful of your views


----------



## hackskii

Well, I would have taken HCG during my cycle.

How long do you plan on staying on?


----------



## TONY C

another couple of weeks. then how long a rest would you recomend and what should i take.


----------



## hackskii

TONY C said:


> another couple of weeks. then how long a rest would you recomend and what should i take.


So you are taking the quad stuff for 6 weeks and want to stay on for 8 weeks total?

I would have used some HCG there, but 100mg clomid a couple of weeks past last jab, for 3 to 4 weeks, and nolva at 20mg for 5 weeks should be fine.


----------



## TONY C

thanks Hackskii thats exactly what ile do. thanks for your advice

tony


----------



## PurpleOnes

I really enjoy this thread it is written to easily understand things. On other steroid related forums everything seems too complex.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

Thanks for this Thread, a lot of great info! 

Just I was wondering during a pct as you mentioned nolva and clomi combo, should I add to that a testosterone booster?

I just want to get libido and test high fast so in case of shut down my miss won't complain much 

EDIT: or would've be better to get the test booster or something like 6-bromo afterwards?


----------



## hackskii

IronJohnDoe said:


> Thanks for this Thread, a lot of great info!
> 
> Just I was wondering during a pct as you mentioned nolva and clomi combo, should I add to that a testosterone booster?
> 
> I just want to get libido and test high fast so in case of shut down my miss won't complain much
> 
> EDIT: or would've be better to get the test booster or something like 6-bromo afterwards?


No, and no, bromo will offer nothing to the mix for recovery.

Test boosters are a joke, with the exception of DAA but even then wont aid in recovery what so ever.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

Got it, so the mix itself is good enough, ok and after pct would it be good a 4 weeks on DAA?


----------



## hackskii

IronJohnDoe said:


> Got it, so the mix itself is good enough, ok and after pct would it be good a 4 weeks on DAA?


You could, probably wont matter much anyway, hell vitamin D at 5000iu would probably bump up your levels as much as anything and actually be a good thing to take.


----------



## IronJohnDoe

Thank you so much, I will definitely go for it, vitamin D after pct cheers!


----------



## G-man99

hackskii said:


> You could, probably wont matter much anyway, hell vitamin D at 5000iu would probably bump up your levels as much as anything and actually be a good thing to take.


Have recently read that Vit D can boost the effects of Clomid and that a smaller dose of clomid can be used during pct as long as it is used in conjunction with Vit D


----------



## hackskii

G-man99 said:


> Have recently read that Vit D can boost the effects of Clomid and that a smaller dose of clomid can be used during pct as long as it is used in conjunction with Vit D


Even moreso for HCG.


----------



## G-man99

hackskii said:


> Even moreso for HCG.


Is Vit D3 the same thing??


----------



## hackskii

G-man99 said:


> Is Vit D3 the same thing??


Yes


----------



## fivo

Hey there.

Im 33 years old ,1.91m tall,88 kilos at 11% bf. Im working out 5 days per week and my diet is very clean all this years.

I took the decision to have my first cycle next week. The plan is Test-e,dianabol and Winstrol (both of them tabs).

The plan:

Week 1-12 Test-e 250 mg/ml twice a week

Week 1-4 Dianabol @ 30 ED

Week 1-4 Winstrol @ 40 ED

Week 1-12 Proviron @ 25 mg ED

Week 14-16 Nolvadex @ 20 mgs ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED

Week 17-19 Nolvadex @ 20mgs ED

Two questions i have.

1) Do you think that im protected from Gyno since i have proviron on cycle and Nolva ready to go in case or should i drop proviron for now and start Arimidex at 0.5 EOD?

2) I want to add HCG to keep the boys working. 500iu once a week from week 4 till week 16 is ok?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## hackskii

fivo said:


> Hey there.
> 
> Im 33 years old ,1.91m tall,88 kilos at 11% bf. Im working out 5 days per week and my diet is very clean all this years.
> 
> I took the decision to have my first cycle next week. The plan is Test-e,dianabol and Winstrol (both of them tabs).
> 
> The plan:
> 
> Week 1-12 Test-e 250 mg/ml twice a week
> 
> Week 1-4 Dianabol @ 30 ED
> 
> Week 1-4 Winstrol @ 40 ED
> 
> Week 1-12 Proviron @ 25 mg ED
> 
> Week 14-16 Nolvadex @ 20 mgs ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED
> 
> Week 17-19 Nolvadex @ 20mgs ED
> 
> Two questions i have.
> 
> 1) Do you think that im protected from Gyno since i have proviron on cycle and Nolva ready to go in case or should i drop proviron for now and start Arimidex at 0.5 EOD?
> 
> 2) I want to add HCG to keep the boys working. 500iu once a week from week 4 till week 16 is ok?
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Proviron will offer little support, and 500iu twice a week of HCG would be best.

Yes on the AI, probably 3 times a week .5 would be about right, but watch for sides of either too high estrogen, or too low.

I would suggest during the cycle for the HCG, and clomid being bumped to 100mg for at least 2 weeks before dropping it down to 50.


----------



## fivo

hackskii said:


> Proviron will offer little support, and 500iu twice a week of HCG would be best.
> 
> Yes on the AI, probably 3 times a week .5 would be about right, but watch for sides of either too high estrogen, or too low.
> 
> I would suggest during the cycle for the HCG, and clomid being bumped to 100mg for at least 2 weeks before dropping it down to 50.


Ok,so i put Proviron out of the cycle and Pct?

Also i should keep HCG at 500iu in the three first weeks of PCT or i should bump it?

I have to correct my self, Winstrol will be during 8-12 weeks.Not the same with Dianabol.


----------



## hackskii

fivo said:


> Ok,so i put Proviron out of the cycle and Pct?
> 
> Also i should keep HCG at 500iu in the three first weeks of PCT or i should bump it?
> 
> I have to correct my self, Winstrol will be during 8-12 weeks.Not the same with Dianabol.


Week 2 or so you can add in the HCG at 500iu twice a week.

That should be fine, I dont like winny myself, gave me panic attacks but should be ok with the gear you selected.

I would also like for you to take 5000iu vitamin D every day.


----------



## mous12

hey there. im planning on my next cycle. i had my bloods done recently and everything is fine.I have to say that i own that to hackskii as he is the one that helped me plan my PCT through this thread. so i took a full time off after my cycle. now im planning my next one which aims for good lean gains. my plan is this :

1-8 test prop 150mg EOD

1-7 npp 100mg EOD

1-6 tbol 100mg ED

1-8 proviron 75mg ED

1-8 HCG 500ius E3D

PCT

nolva 20/20/20/10

clomid 100/100/100

d3 5000ius day

creatine

Now im kinda confused over Adex. what i mean. i want to minimize the use of AI's. im not at all gyno prone and althought proviron is not an AI, it offers some protection as far as i know. so these are the choises im thinking :

- Go with proviron and keep adex on hand

- Use adex at 0.5mg EOD

- Use 0.5mg adex the day of HCG ??

Also do you think that HCG has a place in my PCT too??

And of course whats your overall opinion.

thanks in advance !


----------



## hackskii

.5 adex every 3 days to start, then modify if need be.

That looks fine with the rest of it.


----------



## mous12

hackskii said:


> .5 adex every 3 days to start, then modify if need be.
> 
> That looks fine with the rest of it.


thanks for the quick reply mate. il go with that as for adex then.

do you think i should throw some hcg in my pct?? maybe a blast of 2500 ius to kickstart it ??


----------



## hackskii

mous12 said:


> thanks for the quick reply mate. il go with that as for adex then.
> 
> do you think i should throw some hcg in my pct?? maybe a blast of 2500 ius to kickstart it ??


I think you should have used more during, it is up to you for now to do during PCT.


----------



## Hotdog147

mous12 said:


> thanks for the quick reply mate. il go with that as for adex then.
> 
> do you think i should throw some hcg in my pct?? maybe a blast of 2500 ius to kickstart it ??





hackskii said:


> I think you should have used more during, it is up to you for now to do during PCT.


You are using it already on cycle at the correct dose of 1000iu a week right?

There is no place for hcg in pct when you run it on cycle... The pct meds won't really work whilst taking hcg


----------



## hackskii

Hotdog147 said:


> You are using it already on cycle at the correct dose of 1000iu a week right?
> 
> There is no place for hcg in pct when you run it on cycle... The pct meds won't really work whilst taking hcg


I agree, during is best to keep alive.


----------



## mous12

thanks for the replies to both. il just keep it on cycle then. but hackskii what do you mean more? im planning on 1000ius week (2x500). should i bump it to 2000ius or so ??


----------



## hackskii

mous12 said:


> thanks for the replies to both. il just keep it on cycle then. but hackskii what do you mean more? im planning on 1000ius week (2x500). should i bump it to 2000ius or so ??


No, that is fine, I misread it at first or thought you were someone else.

As long as you are getting the 1000iu in a week, no need for any in PCT, you may run it while the gear is clearing though prior to starting PCT.


----------



## JR8908

hackskii said:


> No, that is fine, I misread it at first or thought you were someone else.
> 
> As long as you are getting the 1000iu in a week, no need for any in PCT, you may run it while the gear is clearing though prior to starting PCT.


Hacks, I read somewhere that you mentioned you needing 20,000iu of hcg to recover from a cycle and I'm sure I had seen somewhere how you incorporated the 20,000iu into a 10-12 week cycle.

Can you do this or do you just need 1000iu per week so for example after a 12 week cycle + clearance time you only need say 15,000iu

If you can do this could you lay out an example of how to do this?


----------



## hackskii

JR8908 said:


> Hacks, I read somewhere that you mentioned you needing 20,000iu of hcg to recover from a cycle and I'm sure I had seen somewhere how you incorporated the 20,000iu into a 10-12 week cycle.
> 
> Can you do this or do you just need 1000iu per week so for example after a 12 week cycle + clearance time you only need say 15,000iu
> 
> If you can do this could you lay out an example of how to do this?


Yah, its those long cycles longer than 12 weeks that may be a problem.

If you look at it 12 week cycles should be about 12000iu to 15000iu for full testicular function, some more, some less.

But those long cycles of 20 plus weeks, or the blast and cruise guys for years, way more probably will be needed.


----------



## Shorty_Aaron

Starting my first cycle n trying to fully understand everything is a knightmare lol

I'm doing 1ml test 400 10-12 weeks.

I have Novaldex tabs as back up.

Do I just need to take the nova after my cycle? When? And how long for?


----------



## hackskii

Shorty_Aaron said:



> Starting my first cycle n trying to fully understand everything is a knightmare lol
> 
> I'm doing 1ml test 400 10-12 weeks.
> 
> I have Novaldex tabs as back up.
> 
> Do I just need to take the nova after my cycle? When? And how long for?


What is the kind of test you are taking?

I would use low dose HCG during my cycle if it was me, this will make recovery a snap.

I also like clomid in my PCT.


----------



## trock88

what do you guys think would be the best pct for a cycle like this :

Week 1-12 Test E 500mg pin once a week

week 13-14 2 weeks waiting for test to clear out

got adex on hand will run it .25 each day

*
pct 4 week clomid/nolva*

*
3 weeks 50mg clomid ED / 20mg Nolva ED*

*
1 week 20mg Nolva ED*

*
*

Thanks for any feedback,


----------



## monkey999

heya all. starting my second cycle next week (first was tbol only) and just wanted to double check my hcg course and my pct. cycle will be:

1-4 Dbol 30/30/40/40 ED

1-6 test prop 150mg EOD

1-6 proviron 50mg ED

1-6 Adex .5mg E3D

1-6 HCG 500ius E3D (starting 2 days after first pin and finishing the day before PCT starts)

3 days after the end of cycle, PCT starts :

1-3 clomid 100mg ED

1-4 nolva 20/20/10/10 mg ED

1-4 D3 5000ius ED

1-4 creatine

thoughts? thanks in advance !


----------



## justin1

Great informative article !! i am looking to start my first cycle of Anavar 50/60mg for about 7 weeks i was wondering whether there was any chance of getting some advice on PCT in regards of this Steroid. I seem to be having a whirlwind of information regarding PCT. Some people tell me PCT is not needed for this others recommend it. Clarity on this would be great !! Thanks


----------



## Alen232

Hello everybody 

I am new on this forum so please be patient with me 

What do you guys think it would be the best pct for me it is my first cycle:

First 4 weeks 250mg od depo test the next 12 weeks I would take 500mg of depo test(in two jabs) ?

Cause this is my first cycle I will take only one compounde.

Thank you.


----------



## grapplingvice

Hi Hackskii,

Wonder if you could help me out again.. you have in the past and your information was "GREAT" thanks again.

I am getting ready to start another cycle and was going to mix it up a bit so could you please look at the following and let me know your thoughts? if its total crap thats ok...my wife says I don't have any feelings anyway..lol. First I will tell you that I am 46 and 205lbs

I am thinking something like this

Test 500mg every week 1-11

Deca 400mg every week 1-4

Primobolan 300mg every week 4-11

proviron 1 tab every day weeks 3 5 and 7

Nolva 1 tab aday weeks 2 4 6 8 10 12 13 14

Or would I be better off NOT useing the proviron and using some arimidex as needed throughout the cycle and add in hcg 500iu twice a week during cycle then after last jab hit the hcg harder for a couple weeks then go into the standard nolva clomid routine for 30-45 days?

As always your knowledge and time are much appreciated!!!!! Thank you!!!!


----------



## grapplingvice

Hi Hackskii,

Wonder if you could help me out again.. you have in the past and your information was "GREAT" thanks again.

I am getting ready to start another cycle and was going to mix it up a bit so could you please look at the following and let me know your thoughts? if its total crap thats ok...my wife says I don't have any feelings anyway..lol - so just let me have it.. : - ) First I will tell you that I am 46 and 205lbs

I am thinking something like this

Test 500mg every week 1-11

Deca 400mg every week 1-4

Primobolan 300mg every week 4-11

proviron 1 tab every day weeks 3 5 and 7

Nolva 1 tab aday weeks 2 4 6 8 10 12 13 14

Or would I be better off NOT useing the proviron and using some arimidex as needed throughout the cycle and add in hcg 500iu twice a week during cycle then after last jab hit the hcg harder for a couple weeks then go into the standard nolva clomid routine for 30-45 days?

As always your knowledge and time are much appreciated!!!!! Thank you!!!!


----------



## Big Man 123

trock88 said:


> what do you guys think would be the best pct for a cycle like this :
> 
> Week 1-12 Test E 500mg pin once a week
> 
> week 13-14 2 weeks waiting for test to clear out
> 
> got adex on hand will run it .25 each day
> 
> *
> pct 4 week clomid/nolva*
> 
> *
> 3 weeks 50mg clomid ED / 20mg Nolva ED*
> 
> *
> 1 week 20mg Nolva ED*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Thanks for any feedback,


Clomid : 50 / 50 / 25 / 25

Nolva : 40 / 20 / 20 / 20

Try grabbing some HCG, it makes a LOT of difference.


----------



## tyke1

Just coming to the end of my tbol cycle. Going to use nolva for 3 weeks do I need to taper down or just run 20/20/20. Also is ok to go out on the ale whilst on pct? Cheers.


----------



## Burundis

---


----------



## Burundis

hi there again

cycle

tren a 350mg for 8 weeks

test p 350mg for 10 weeks

master 350mg for 10 weeks

winstrol 350mg 4-10 weeks

Is this pct is ok ?

adex 0.5mg eod

hcg e3d 250iu

then when cycle finishes

clomid 100 50 50 50

nolva 40 20 20 20


----------



## Keo's

Hi Gents could do with some advice for PCT

I am 31 6ft and 95kg eating clean and training hard

This is my first course for about 6 years and have previously never completed my course with PCT

Stupid I know.

I've just started a course this week this is how I'm intending it to run .

100mg Drostanolone propionate

75mg Testosterone propionate

75mg trenbolone acetate

( all three come in one vial labelled TDT XT250)

EOD for 8 weeks

500iu of hcg twice a week starting second week ( following Hackskii advice)

Now I only have Proviron to hand for pct but judging from previous posts this doesn't sound like

The best substance to use.

If anybody can tell me what to use what dose and when to start etc I would most

Appreciate it thanks.


----------



## waifajus

Hey, there was a thread about PCT with DNP, can't find it anywhere, maybe you know where is it?


----------



## grapplingvice

Hey Hackskii can you help me with this???

This is my 4th cycle and I wanted to do something a little different. I decided to run Test E 500mg wk with 600mg Primo E for 14 weeks and add in Anavar 50mg ed the last 6 weeks. I received my order from my normal source but some of the primo was back ordered but I was assured I would have it in time. So I started my cycle. The back ordered primo came but it is injectable Acetate Not Enanthate. And it does not look to promising to get the Enanthate in time for when I need it. So my question is.. Can I just start using the Acetate when I run out of the Enanthate or do I need a clearing time for the Enanthate? I was thinking that there a similar item just long ester vs short ester so I should not have any issues ..but I don't know this for sure... Any help would be much appreciated..

PS.. I am aware that the doseing for the Acetate is quite different than the Enanthate..so I was thinking of starting the Acetate 4 days after last jab of Enantate at 100mg eod of Acetate

Also I am using an AI and Hcg during cycle and after as well as the nova and clomid

Again..thanks for any help on this!!!


----------



## help.me

Hi can any one help me . Just started testanon 250. Only have 2ml a week (500mg) with me taking a low amount and it been on its own do I need to take pct or anything else with this. And before any one says do your research first I have . But theres alot or mixed comments on this. Need help asap. On week 2 of a 5 week course


----------



## schonvergeben

5 week course? Done your research? Come on


----------



## BennyC

Advice on my proposed first cycle below would be appreciated 

(planned this last year, need to refresh my memory in regards to everything, but when I was more clued up than I am now this is what I came out with).



> Compounds
> 
> 1 - 12 = Test-E @ 500mg
> 
> 1 - 6 = Dbol @ 50mg ED
> 
> Support
> 
> 1 - 14 = Arimidex @ 0.25mg EOD
> 
> 2 - 14 = HCG @ 1000IU (2 x 500IU)
> 
> PCT
> 
> 15 - 18 - Clomid 100/50/50/50/mg ED
> 
> 15 - 18 - Nolva 20/20/20/20mg ED


Already taking 5000IU ED as part of my supplementation.

Thanks,

Ben


----------



## dvb247

Regarding PCT,

Is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) only sold as injection shot? as tabs are preferred if available?

How long does it take post cycle for a middle aged chap who's had the snip to hand the baton back to his nuts if he doesn't use HCG shots?

Cheers!!


----------



## Wallace86

Amazing thread Iv never used hcg before and now my cycles we getting a bit moe advanced I'm gona throw it in from start to pct from now on. Il be adding some in to pct for this cycle but wasn't sure about hcg until I was pointed this way cheers @hackskii for info on subject.


----------



## Cognos

Hi Hackskii,

Wondered if you could give me some of your excellent advise again please ?

I'm at week 4 of a 16 week cycle now and have only just been able to get some HCG (shortage from my supplier), it's the 3 x 2000iu Gonachor stuff.

Cycle details :

Weeks 1-16

Orbis Lean Gain

Test P 60mg x 1.5ml Mon-Wed-Fri

Tren A60mg x 1.5ml

Mast P60mg x 1.5ml

Orbis Test/Tren

Test E 150ml x 1ml Sun

Tren E 100ml x 1ml

Weeks 8-16

Winny50mg x 1 Mon-Fri

PCT I thought was :

100mg Clomid for 2 weeks then 50mg clomid for 2 weeks

20mg novadex for 5 weeks

12000iu of HCG

Does this sound ok or do I need more HCG as it's Tren and a longer cycle ?

Should I start taking the HCG from now at 500iu x 2 week or wait until PCT ? I just wondered if I have shut down enough already where the HCG isnt going to be enough to do any use ?

I feel fine....my balls have shrunk a little bit from normal but they're not peanut sized and I'm still "functioning" perfectly fine.

My plan was to go on holiday the day after my last Test/Tren Ethanate shot for 2 weeks (Assume the Leab Gain will clear in just a few days as it's Acetate ether) which should give enough time for the gear to clear and then start the PCT when I get back.

Can I still use this method if I run the HCG along with the cycle or does that change things ? Assume you don't take big shots at the end if you've been taking it through the cycle as well ?

Finally will I need an AI, if so what ?


----------



## hackskii

I would run an AI now.

I also would run hCG at 500iu for the whole time left, and even including during clearance time of the gear.

Of course your balls feel fine leydig cells only comprise about 10% of the mass of the testicles, the rest is for sperm.

No indication of ball size means anything really in testosterone production.

AI would be something like adex at .5mg twice a week and see how the sides go, if you get them then do EOD.

Just don't want to go too low and crush your libido.


----------



## Cognos

Ok thank you Hackskii....legend.

So if I run the HCG now I dont need to do the big shots at the end correct?

20mg ed Nova as part of PCT ok....seeing as I'm taking Tren?


----------



## hackskii

Cognos said:


> Ok thank you Hackskii....legend.
> 
> So if I run the HCG now I dont need to do the big shots at the end correct?
> 
> 20mg ed Nova as part of PCT ok....seeing as I'm taking Tren?


No need to run the big shots at the end if you used during.

Nolva is ok, I like to run clomid with that though, feel it works better.


----------



## Cognos

Ok great thank you....I think hcg during is the way forward for future cycles then!

I have 50 x 50mg clomid and 50 x 20mg nova already so was gonna run them both at x2 each for 2 weeks then x1 each for 2-3 weeks.


----------



## PortsladeMan

hackskii said:


> Could take from months to a year, depending on how long you were on, what you were taking, genetic disposition, but lets just say that is the last stuff to come back online.
> 
> So, if you are considering having children, I would keep the cycle away from that.


Do you mean from a month to a year with or without PCT?


----------



## hackskii

PortsladeMan said:


> Do you mean from a month to a year with or without PCT?


Less with a PCT, more without one.


----------



## Heisenberg

Considering PCT for a few personal reasons.

Been On for almost a year now, did two previous cycles + PCT's before going on for around 11months.

Both the PCT's before I never had any real lack of libido, of course they were only 12 week cycles.

Over the past 11 months i've used Test, Tren and Deca, the only 3 compounds I used during.

Going to be cruising @ 250mg/week soon, if I decide to come off I'll probably use the Doc's protocol. I was just wondering, hasn't it changed since the original post?

What does it currently look like?

Also I'm sure this is probably impossible to answer but, best case scenario how long would you expect to have no libido?


----------



## abtinsalari

what i need for( boldenone 3ml 2 time a week +anavar 30mg ED cycle) pct? nolva?clomid? hcg?all of them?


----------



## hackskii

abtinsalari said:


> what i need for( boldenone 3ml 2 time a week +anavar 30mg ED cycle) pct? nolva?clomid? hcg?all of them?


How long you been on?

No need for multiple jabs for bold, it has a very long ester.


----------



## solidss

@hackskii

Excellent thread mate! You can't go wrong with this kind of info.

Good to be here...


----------



## abtinsalari

hackskii said:


> How long you been on?
> 
> No need for multiple jabs for bold, it has a very long ester.


8 week


----------



## hackskii

abtinsalari said:


> what i need for( boldenone 3ml 2 time a week +anavar 30mg ED cycle) pct? nolva?clomid? hcg?all of them?





abtinsalari said:


> 8 week


How long you going to be on?

I would have been doing jabs of hCG during, then SERMS once the gear has cleared.


----------



## Dan TT

How long does Nolva & Clomid take to clear out of your system? I'm gunna run 4 weeks of PCT but about 3/4 days after my last day of tabs I have a doc's appointment and they don't know i've been on gear yet. Should they ask i'll say yes, but will the the nolva and clomid show anything up on blood/urine tests? (kidney tests)

@hackskii?

cheers


----------



## hackskii

6 weeks as to not interfere with anything.


----------



## Dan TT

hackskii said:


> 6 weeks as to not interfere with anything.


hackskii, do you have any knowledge to what it could flag up on the results? (kidney tests), also are either of clomid/nolva bad for your kidneys?

Final Q: Been running test e 600mg for last 14 weeks, then cut down to 250g for 5 weeks to cut. Not used HCG throughout.

I got advised my pct protocol to be (3 weeks after last jab): Clomid 100/100/50/50 Nolva 40/40/20/20 (I have seen some of your posts which say 20mg is enough?)

Should I add any HCG in to the PCT? (If so, what dose etc?) & Could that highlight on any kidney tests?

Cheers in advance bud


----------



## hackskii

Not aware of anything negative with SERMS and kidneys, probably a very mild strain on the liver but other than that it will improve lipid profiles.

19 weeks on and no hCG?

No doubt you will need some of that, and yes 20mg is fine for nolva.


----------



## Dan TT

hackskii said:


> Not aware of anything negative with SERMS and kidneys, probably a very mild strain on the liver but other than that it will improve lipid profiles.
> 
> 19 weeks on and no hCG?
> 
> No doubt you will need some of that, and yes 20mg is fine for nolva.


Yup stupid right! What protocol should I look at for the hCG?


----------



## hackskii

Dan TT said:


> Yup stupid right! What protocol should I look at for the hCG?


You are going to need at least 20,000iu of hCG, 60 tabs of 50mg clomid, and 45 tabs of 20mg nolva.

Once you get that, let me know and send me a PM.


----------



## Dan94

I know on cycle its best to 100% avoid alcohol, but what about whilst on PCT? Is it less "strict" alcohol wise? (1 or 2 nights out clubbing during PCT?)


----------



## hackskii

Dan94 said:


> I know on cycle its best to 100% avoid alcohol, but what about whilst on PCT? Is it less "strict" alcohol wise? (1 or 2 nights out clubbing during PCT?)


I feel anything is fine, just in moderation, a guy posted on facebook about alcohol in a study raising testosterone.

I just thought that was kind of cool.


----------



## Dan94

hackskii said:


> I feel anything is fine, just in moderation, a guy posted on facebook about alcohol in a study raising testosterone.
> 
> I just thought that was kind of cool.


That's interesting.

I ask as I'm hoping to run some letro at some stage to try reverse some gyno, it's just hard to find a 8-12 period when there's noones birthday or special occasion, as that's the only time I go out and drink :laugh:


----------



## Bic Boiii

Hey hackskii. Thanks for the great post on understanding PCT. It's well laid out and informative. I'm new to the forum but I've read the first 10 pages of this thread and a lot of other threads on PCT and I have an important question.

First off, I'm 22, 189 lbs currently, and 6' tall. I finished my first cycle of 400mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week (200mg E3.5D) for 14 weeks on the 8th of May. That was my last injection which was 200mg. At the time I was stupid and didn't think the extra two weeks beyond 12 weeks would be that big of a deal considering I had a little left over but I now realize I just caused my PCT to be harder. I started my PCT protocol 14 days after my last injection which was the 22nd of May. My current PCT protocol is Clomid 100/75/50/25 and Novla 40/30/20/10. I am approaching my 4th week of PCT. I did not run HCG throughout or at all because I failed to read up on it enough and didn't quite understand it thoroughly (I know, stupid).

I know my PCT probably isn't the best but my question is.. is it too late to run HCG? If not, how much and for how long? Also, any advice for my current PCT protocol would be greatly appreciated as well. I know it's not quite right based on your information. Thanks a lot!


----------



## wrighty291089

HI sorry im new to this page only just registered, was hoping someone could point me the right direction, im 24 5,11 and around 83kg, im about four weeks into my second cycle.

my fist cycle was fairly simple 6 weeks of test 400 2ml per week no orals.. i ran nolva and clomid for 6 weeks after my cycle two weeks after my last pin? no signs of gyno.

this time around i am on a bit bigger cycle and eating and training really well..

week 1-12 sust250 1.5ml wed/sunday

week 1-6 tren enan 200 .75mg wed/sunday

week 1-3 dbol 40mg/day

week 4-12 mast prop .75mg eod

week 9-12 winstrol 40mg/day

from day one i have been running .5mg adex ed

recently however (week 4) i have noticed very small lumps under my nipples, they are not sore but my nipples are puffy? does any1 know what kind of gyno could be forming?

ive just bought another box of adex and a nolva to run for the rest of cycle along with mast do you think this will be enough to get rid of early gyno? i also have a box of nolva and clomid to run durning pct.

any help would be appreciated thanks


----------



## dannybowle

Hey Scott 1 question, this is my first cycle and im 24. What should I do for PCT?

Do I need HCG for PCT?

Can I get away with 100/100/100/50 Clomid ED with 20/20/20/10 Nolva ED, start after 2 weeks of last pin of test

Week 1 - Week 8 Test cyp 350mg

Week 10 PCT with ED 100/100/100/20 Clomid, ED 20/20/20/10 Nolva

What do you think man?


----------



## hackskii

Bic Boiii said:


> Hey hackskii. Thanks for the great post on understanding PCT. It's well laid out and informative. I'm new to the forum but I've read the first 10 pages of this thread and a lot of other threads on PCT and I have an important question.
> 
> First off, I'm 22, 189 lbs currently, and 6' tall. I finished my first cycle of 400mg of Testosterone Enanthate per week (200mg E3.5D) for 14 weeks on the 8th of May. That was my last injection which was 200mg. At the time I was stupid and didn't think the extra two weeks beyond 12 weeks would be that big of a deal considering I had a little left over but I now realize I just caused my PCT to be harder. I started my PCT protocol 14 days after my last injection which was the 22nd of May. My current PCT protocol is Clomid 100/75/50/25 and Novla 40/30/20/10. I am approaching my 4th week of PCT. I did not run HCG throughout or at all because I failed to read up on it enough and didn't quite understand it thoroughly (I know, stupid).
> 
> I know my PCT probably isn't the best but my question is.. is it too late to run HCG? If not, how much and for how long? Also, any advice for my current PCT protocol would be greatly appreciated as well. I know it's not quite right based on your information. Thanks a lot!


Well, I would run the clomid a bit higher but how do you feel?


----------



## hackskii

wrighty291089 said:


> HI sorry im new to this page only just registered, was hoping someone could point me the right direction, im 24 5,11 and around 83kg, im about four weeks into my second cycle.
> 
> my fist cycle was fairly simple 6 weeks of test 400 2ml per week no orals.. i ran nolva and clomid for 6 weeks after my cycle two weeks after my last pin? no signs of gyno.
> 
> this time around i am on a bit bigger cycle and eating and training really well..
> 
> week 1-12 sust250 1.5ml wed/sunday
> 
> week 1-6 tren enan 200 .75mg wed/sunday
> 
> week 1-3 dbol 40mg/day
> 
> week 4-12 mast prop .75mg eod
> 
> week 9-12 winstrol 40mg/day
> 
> from day one i have been running .5mg adex ed
> 
> recently however (week 4) i have noticed very small lumps under my nipples, they are not sore but my nipples are puffy? does any1 know what kind of gyno could be forming?
> 
> ive just bought another box of adex and a nolva to run for the rest of cycle along with mast do you think this will be enough to get rid of early gyno? i also have a box of nolva and clomid to run durning pct.
> 
> any help would be appreciated thanks


Well, probably was the dbol and it is out of your system.

So, if you still are getting gyno symptoms then you will need to up your adex.


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Hey Scott 1 question, this is my first cycle and im 24. What should I do for PCT?
> 
> Do I need HCG for PCT?
> 
> Can I get away with 100/100/100/50 Clomid ED with 20/20/20/10 Nolva ED, start after 2 weeks of last pin of test
> 
> Week 1 - Week 8 Test cyp 350mg
> 
> Week 10 PCT with ED 100/100/100/20 Clomid, ED 20/20/20/10 Nolva
> 
> What do you think man?


8 week cycles are pretty tame for recovery, the longer the cycle the bigger I see the need for some hCG low dose at 500iu twice a week.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> 8 week cycles are pretty tame for recovery, the longer the cycle the bigger I see the need for some hCG low dose at 500iu twice a week.


HCG 2x a week on cycle for 8 weeks?

What do you think about the 100/100/100/50 clomid & Nolva 20/20/20/10?

So what do you recommend?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Bic Boiii

My libido is pretty low but my boys seem to be back to normal size. I also don't have a problem getting it up and getting the job done. Just not much drive to do it. I don't think I've had much morning wood either besides maybe one or two that I can remember. My workouts have been good.


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> HCG 2x a week on cycle for 8 weeks?
> 
> What do you think about the 100/100/100/50 clomid & Nolva 20/20/20/10?
> 
> So what do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


That is fine, 500iu hCG twice a week during.

Low dose AI would be a good idea while on testosterone too.


----------



## hackskii

Bic Boiii said:


> My libido is pretty low but my boys seem to be back to normal size. I also don't have a problem getting it up and getting the job done. Just not much drive to do it. I don't think I've had much morning wood either besides maybe one or two that I can remember. My workouts have been good.


Take vitamin D at 5000iu per day, that seems to help some, helped me alot as I was low in D.


----------



## Eddie Ere

Hi there,

I'm 24 years of age, 190lbs, 5 10", have ran one previous cycle of test-e @600mg for 10 weeks with no PCT, but with HCG throughout. (Unusual I know, but a complete lack of knowledge tbh) I suffered terrible lows after that cycle and it took quite some time to recover.

I'm currently approaching week 7 of a 500mg test-e cycle, last jab was in week 5. I'm unable to continue the cycle due to an injury and I am just wondering what sort of PCT should I undertake. I have also ran HCG @ 1000iu since week 3, and am going to take the last jab today.

Also I'm heading away on holidays next week and there will be a bit of drinking involved, how should I expect this to interfere with the PCT. I really do not want to get shut down like the last time.

Thanks for any help forthcoming.


----------



## hackskii

Enjoy your holiday man, don't worry about the drinking.


----------



## Eddie Ere

Cheers, I'm just wondering what sort of PCT I should take for a dosage like that, I'm assuming I'll need to undertake one.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> That is fine, 500iu hCG twice a week during.
> 
> Low dose AI would be a good idea while on testosterone too.


Okay thanks man. I'm injecting on Sun night and Thursday noon so I should take .25mg adex Mon wed Fri? Any recommendations?? Thanks for the help again Scott, appreciate it!


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Okay thanks man. I'm injecting on Sun night and Thursday noon so I should take .25mg adex Mon wed Fri? Any recommendations?? Thanks for the help again Scott, appreciate it!


Timing wont matter much, the half life will see to it that it will be fine anyway you choose on any days.


----------



## lukeyybrown1

I am currently running 300MG a week test prop can you run CLOMID and HCG through cycle to help with fertility and testicular fullness? Great post by the way


----------



## hackskii

lukeyybrown1 said:


> I am currently running 300MG a week test prop can you run CLOMID and HCG through cycle to help with fertility and testicular fullness? Great post by the way


It is possible, but that may depend on several things.


----------



## lukeyybrown1

hackskii said:


> It is possible, but that may depend on several things.


What would that be? cheers for replying


----------



## dannybowle

Hey Scott, so I've been taking ur advice on low dose a.I on cycle. Been on .25mg adex for the past 5 days and water retention seem to be gone. But I couldn't maintain erection... Could it be my e2 is too low? I have morning wood though every morning tho. Just that today I couldn't maintain erection..


----------



## hackskii

lukeyybrown1 said:


> What would that be? cheers for replying


Type of gear, what nationality you are, among several many other things, time on, etc.


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Hey Scott, so I've been taking ur advice on low dose a.I on cycle. Been on .25mg adex for the past 5 days and water retention seem to be gone. But I couldn't maintain erection... Could it be my e2 is too low? I have morning wood though every morning tho. Just that today I couldn't maintain erection..


Could be many things and could be gear related too.

What gear are you using at what amounts?


----------



## lukeyybrown1

hackskii said:


> Type of gear, what nationality you are, among several many other things, time on, etc.


I have been on for 12 weeks so far

I am english

Used test/tren/eq through this cycle but now switched to just test prop 300mg a week


----------



## hackskii

lukeyybrown1 said:


> I have been on for 12 weeks so far
> 
> I am english
> 
> Used test/tren/eq through this cycle but now switched to just test prop 300mg a week


If one was concerned about fertility then one should not be using gear.


----------



## dannybowle

"Could be many things and could be gear related too.

What gear are you using at what amounts?"

I'm using 350mg a week. So 175 x 2 shots. This is day 12, I started .25mg adex at day 7 - day 11 .25mg ed. Any advice..

P.s edit. I've stopped taking it today which is day 12. Should I try it EOD instead? Or should I just take it on the day after my jab? I'm using test cyp btw..

Thanks again..


----------



## hackskii

You wont need to split cyp shots, that is a fairly long ester so once a week is fine.

Just adjust the AI up or down depending on the sides.


----------



## zeevolution

yo hackskii, great read. if you are gonna tren cycle with HCG during. do you still HCG in your PCT with clomid and nolva? or just nolva and clomid for your PCT?

gonna go something like tren mast prop cycle

dnp blast

pct

break

thx


----------



## hackskii

zeevolution said:


> yo hackskii, great read. if you are gonna tren cycle with HCG during. do you still HCG in your PCT with clomid and nolva? or just nolva and clomid for your PCT?
> 
> gonna go something like tren mast prop cycle
> 
> dnp blast
> 
> pct
> 
> break
> 
> thx


If hCG has been used during, no need to use during PCT, just the SERMS will be fine.


----------



## zeevolution

hackskii said:


> If hCG has been used during, no need to use during PCT, just the SERMS will be fine.


cheers my man. 250ui twice a week if running low test high tren 600 or so tren (thats high for me hah)... do I need to split the 500ui into 2 shots or does it not matter weekly?


----------



## hackskii

zeevolution said:


> cheers my man. 250ui twice a week if running low test high tren 600 or so tren (thats high for me hah)... do I need to split the 500ui into 2 shots or does it not matter weekly?


Actually 500iu twice a week would be the preferred dosage.


----------



## zeevolution

hackskii said:


> Actually 500iu twice a week would be the preferred dosage.


ok thx mate


----------



## ivan360

Have you guys heard of HCG drops? It's starting to get popular here as a dieting suppliment. Im not sure if it has the same effects as the injectable HCG we use during cycle


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> You wont need to split cyp shots, that is a fairly long ester so once a week is fine.
> 
> Just adjust the AI up or down depending on the sides.


Alright man thanks  . Okay what do you think about DAA, Zinc and DHEA during pct? How'd one use it properly?

Let say my PCT

Sunday last pin. 14 days later start

HCG x 2000iu EOD for 8 shots

Clomid x 100/100/100/50

Nolva x 20mg/20/20/10

DAA x 3g ED for 4 weeks

DHEA x 50mg 16 weeks

Zinc x 75mg 16 weeks

Hows that? Thanks scott again for your advice. Appreciate it man!!


----------



## hackskii

ivan360 said:


> Have you guys heard of HCG drops? It's starting to get popular here as a dieting suppliment. Im not sure if it has the same effects as the injectable HCG we use during cycle


Completely worthless and have no effects like the real hCG.


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Alright man thanks  . Okay what do you think about DAA, Zinc and DHEA during pct? How'd one use it properly?
> 
> Let say my PCT
> 
> Sunday last pin. 14 days later start
> 
> HCG x 2000iu EOD for 8 shots
> 
> Clomid x 100/100/100/50
> 
> Nolva x 20mg/20/20/10
> 
> DAA x 3g ED for 4 weeks
> 
> DHEA x 50mg 16 weeks
> 
> Zinc x 75mg 16 weeks
> 
> Hows that? Thanks scott again for your advice. Appreciate it man!!


Well, you can start with 2000iu every 3 days and run that till you start your PCT, but depending on how long you were on, what you used, you may need more time than that to regain testicular function.

DAA drop it, wont be needed, DHEA only if one was on gear for some time, and or stimulants.


----------



## frankie1905

Top post mate THANKYOU KINDLY :thumb: I'm on the road to doing my first cycle in the next 1-2 months and this has cleared it up fr my PCT! can i ask a question, where would proviron fit into a course or PCT a guy at my gym swears by it and said he has it through his whole course because it helps aid sleepiness and the depression you get coming offa cycle. Once again thank you @hackskii


----------



## hackskii

frankie1905 said:


> Top post mate THANKYOU KINDLY :thumb: I'm on the road to doing my first cycle in the next 1-2 months and this has cleared it up fr my PCT! can i ask a question, where would proviron fit into a course or PCT a guy at my gym swears by it and said he has it through his whole course because it helps aid sleepiness and the depression you get coming offa cycle. Once again thank you @hackskii


Proviron may not be needed, but some like the mild androgen effects if PCT is rough...lol


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> Well, you can start with 2000iu every 3 days and run that till you start your PCT, but depending on how long you were on, what you used, you may need more time than that to regain testicular function.
> 
> DAA drop it, wont be needed, DHEA only if one was on gear for some time, and or stimulants.


So for the hcg I 2000iu eod for 16 days 8 shots don't run it with the clomid and nolva like u mentioned? Can I run the hcg with the clomid and nolva?

BTW edit: I'm using 350mg test cyp for 8 weeks. Also will vitamin D 10,000 iu help? Thanks !!


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> So for the hcg I 2000iu eod for 16 days 8 shots don't run it with the clomid and nolva like u mentioned? Can I run the hcg with the clomid and nolva?
> 
> BTW edit: I'm using 350mg test cyp for 8 weeks. Also will vitamin D 10,000 iu help? Thanks !!


hCG seems to work best every 3 to 4 days.

Nolva will be needed to protect you against estrogenic symptoms, clomid then would be used after the hCG as it pretty much wont do much during.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> hCG seems to work best every 3 to 4 days.
> 
> Nolva will be needed to protect you against estrogenic symptoms, clomid then would be used after the hCG as it pretty much wont do much during.


Oic.. Okay so am I getting it right by saying

After last pin of test, next day start:

HCG 2000iu e3d with nolva 20mg ed? Or just on days that I inject hcg?

Clomid start after last injection of HCG for 28 days 100/100/100/50


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Oic.. Okay so am I getting it right by saying
> 
> After last pin of test, next day start:
> 
> HCG 2000iu e3d with nolva 20mg ed? Or just on days that I inject hcg?
> 
> Clomid start after last injection of HCG for 28 days 100/100/100/50


Yes but the nolva is 20mg ED throughout hCG, and clomid.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> Yes but the nolva is 20mg ED throughout hCG, and clomid.


Alright thanks for the advice! Any recommended natural supplement I should take to protect my gains?

Edit: except for creatine cuz im already taking it.


----------



## hackskii

nah,,,,


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> Yes but the nolva is 20mg ED throughout hCG, and clomid.


Okay so can I take dbol and proviron while running the hcg and nolva and stop dbol and proviron when I start the clomid? Will it affect my recovery?


----------



## BigArt23

Need some help guys. Started DBOL 40mg a day 4 weeks ago got 1 more week of it left but only seen a 10 pound gain that includes injecting t400 300mg every 5 days for 3 weeks now. my question is after 8 more weeks of injecting t400 and test e how long should I take a break before starting back up on my 2nd cycle? and should I take any PCTs knowing I want to do another cycle? any help would be greatly appreciated!

Used to be overweight but with some muscle lost pretty much all my weight and muscle weighting in at 200 pounds 6'7 inches tall 28 years old. 4 weeks im 211 pounds and feel much stronger.


----------



## zeevolution

BigArt23 said:


> Need some help guys. Started DBOL 40mg a day 4 weeks ago got 1 more week of it left but only seen a 10 pound gain that includes injecting t400 300mg every 5 days for 3 weeks now. my question is after 8 more weeks of injecting t400 and test e how long should I take a break before starting back up on my 2nd cycle? and should I take any PCTs knowing I want to do another cycle? any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Used to be overweight but with some muscle lost pretty much all my weight and muscle weighting in at 200 pounds 6'7 inches tall 28 years old. 4 weeks im 211 pounds and feel much stronger.


most say come off for as long as you were on. pct or not to pct is up to you, it really depends on wanting kids and even then you could stay on and conceive. but if you cant??? then you gotta come off and it could be one wild of a time trying to get your semen going with no issues. like i got issues with it atm. my doc wants me to come in do more yada yada. imo they want more money so im getting second opinions on my results.

i'll probably end up pcting up until she wants kids, on and off gear. try while im on and if cant i'll come off. atleast then i know id been pcting in the past so ill have a better chance in recuperating if u feel me


----------



## BigArt23

Not in the market for kids right now so that's the least of my concerns. just want to do a second cycle after my first and wanted some advice on if I should pct or not and if I want to do a second cycle how long should I wait after my first?



zeevolution said:


> most say come off for as long as you were on. pct or not to pct is up to you, it really depends on wanting kids and even then you could stay on and conceive. but if you cant??? then you gotta come off and it could be one wild of a time trying to get your semen going with no issues. like i got issues with it atm. my doc wants me to come in do more yada yada. imo they want more money so im getting second opinions on my results.
> 
> i'll probably end up pcting up until she wants kids, on and off gear. try while im on and if cant i'll come off. atleast then i know id been pcting in the past so ill have a better chance in recuperating if u feel me


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Okay so can I take dbol and proviron while running the hcg and nolva and stop dbol and proviron when I start the clomid? Will it affect my recovery?


I would do nothing to inhibit the HPTA while trying to recover.

so, no steroids while trying to recover.



BigArt23 said:


> Need some help guys. Started DBOL 40mg a day 4 weeks ago got 1 more week of it left but only seen a 10 pound gain that includes injecting t400 300mg every 5 days for 3 weeks now. my question is after 8 more weeks of injecting t400 and test e how long should I take a break before starting back up on my 2nd cycle? and should I take any PCTs knowing I want to do another cycle? any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Used to be overweight but with some muscle lost pretty much all my weight and muscle weighting in at 200 pounds 6'7 inches tall 28 years old. 4 weeks im 211 pounds and feel much stronger.


As much time as it takes for all things to return to normal.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> I would do nothing to inhibit the HPTA while trying to recover.
> 
> so, no steroids while trying to recover.
> 
> Let's say my cycle is
> 
> Week 1-8 test cyp 375mg ew 53 days
> 
> Week 5-10 dbol 40mgED stop same day as last hCG 37days
> 
> Week 6-10 hCG 2000iu e3d 29days
> 
> Week 10-13 Start after last hCG, 100mg clomid first 3 week then 50mg last 9 days
> 
> Week 6-13 nolva 20mg ed start with 1st shot hCG, end with clomid. 55 days
> 
> Week 4-13 proviron 25mg ed till last day of pct.
> 
> This is my first cycle. I'm alrd into week 6.


----------



## hackskii

dannybowle said:


> Let's say my cycle is
> 
> Week 1-8 test cyp 375mg ew 53 days
> 
> Week 5-10 dbol 40mgED stop same day as last hCG 37days
> 
> Week 6-10 hCG 2000iu e3d 29days
> 
> Week 10-13 Start after last hCG, 100mg clomid first 3 week then 50mg last 9 days
> 
> Week 6-13 nolva 20mg ed start with 1st shot hCG, end with clomid. 55 days
> 
> Week 4-13 proviron 25mg ed till last day of pct.
> 
> This is my first cycle. I'm alrd into week 6.


Looks pretty confusing to me.

I would have ran the hCG during.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> Looks pretty confusing to me.
> 
> I would have ran the hCG during.


Ys man.. Its slightly confusing. So the hcg 2000iu e3d will be ran mid cycle and stop 1 day before pct 100mg clomid start. Nolva will be ran starting of hcg till end of pct.

Dbol will be ran till 1 day before pct commence. Test cyp will be stopped 20 days before pct commence.

Proviron will be ran 25mg ed till end of pct

Will this work? Thanks for your time Scott..


----------



## hackskii

It could, proviron wont be needed but you can run that if you like.

Might be a tad bit aggressive with the hCG though.

If 10 weeks was the cycle and 1000iu a week kept testicular function, you may or may not need all 20,000iu.

Towards the end of the you can probably bring the dosing down some with the hCG.


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> It could, proviron wont be needed but you can run that if you like.
> 
> Might be a tad bit aggressive with the hCG though.
> 
> If 10 weeks was the cycle and 1000iu a week kept testicular function, you may or may not need all 20,000iu.
> 
> Towards the end of the you can probably bring the dosing down some with the hCG.


Alright man!! But the hcg was used mid cycle towards till start of pct. So I guess I'll just use all 20,000iu then?

Thanks again Scott!


----------



## hackskii

Its complicated.

Testing for serum testosterone for a gauge to see if the nuts are working cant be done while on steroids.

So, this will all be guesswork.


----------



## Asura

Will the pct protocol you mentioned at the start of this thread work for restarting after a year on TRT? Is it possible to have a chat with you hacksii? I can explain why I'm wanting to do this without bombarding this thread. Thanks in advance


----------



## hackskii

Asura said:


> Will the pct protocol you mentioned at the start of this thread work for restarting after a year on TRT? Is it possible to have a chat with you hacksii? I can explain why I'm wanting to do this without bombarding this thread. Thanks in advance


It would, but I would modify that some.


----------



## Asura

hackskii said:


> It would, but I would modify that some.


Is there anyway I can make contact with u? It won't let me private message as I've just joined. I've been searching the Internet high and low for the last few months researching which has led me here in the hopes of being able get some quick advice off you if that's at all possible please. Thanks hackskii


----------



## hackskii

Asura said:


> Is there anyway I can make contact with u? It won't let me private message as I've just joined. I've been searching the Internet high and low for the last few months researching which has led me here in the hopes of being able get some quick advice off you if that's at all possible please. Thanks hackskii


----------



## dannybowle

hackskii said:


> Its complicated.
> 
> Testing for serum testosterone for a gauge to see if the nuts are working cant be done while on steroids.
> 
> So, this will all be guesswork.


Alright thanks again. Okay I just noticed I have slight puffy nipples coming up after the hcg shot yesterday. I also started taking 20mg nolva end and 0.5 adex on next day after the injections. Should I be wary of gyno and start taking letro to reverse it?

From what I've read, this isn't gyno. Also there isn't any sensitivity or pain just slight puffiness..


----------



## hackskii

Dont worry, the SERM and AI will protect you from gyno.


----------



## Brockfan

Hackskii,

Thank you for all your time, energy and life you have committed to helping us. I know you have not only changed lives but perhaps saved a few lives as well.

I will keep it brief and not question your knowledge. What are your thoughts on taking any of the following during PCT: Aspirin, Cialis, Xanex, Ambien, and Hydrocodone. Will any of those halt or slow down down the ebb and flow of PCT?


----------



## hackskii

I have heard aspirin is not good, and some meds interfere with libido as well in a negative way.

I probably would not use anything really if one can get away with it.


----------



## Brockfan

Thank you Scott.


----------



## Ginger Ben

Readerpride said:


> Hi all,
> 
> sorry but I dont agree with this common concept I continue to read into the board of the whole world.
> 
> there's a fundamental error.
> 
> You all believe the PCT refers to the restoring of own testosterone or to the JPTA, but it's wrong. Certainly there's the PCT for restore own HPTA ,of course, but what about how to restore other hormones (not the testosterone so) deficiency? Well, exist other PCTs.
> 
> In a few words it exist a specifiuc PCT for each hormone or gland or stuff you woul need to make it restored.
> 
> So.."What does PCT mean?" Simple! It means Post Cycle Therapy. Period!
> 
> So it doesn't refer to the HPTA only, but it refers to EVERY glandular axis.
> 
> Do you all really believe that just AAS users need a PCT after their exogenous testosterone cycles? NO!
> 
> What for example about up all those Bbuilders that run hundreds different types of hormones (so not just testosterone indeed)??
> 
> They also need a PCT.
> 
> PCT means post cycle therapy. Period.
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous Testosterone so you'll need a testosterone-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary tests axis (HPTA).
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous insulin so you'll need a insulin-PCT to restore your own insulin-pancreatic acinar axis ("IPAA" ? dont know the right code)
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous hGH or IGF-1 so you'll need a hGH-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary IGF-1 axis
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous thyroid hormones so you'll need a thyroid-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary thyroid axis (HPT axis)
> 
> And so on and on and on, dipendently to what/which type of exogenous hormone you had used.
> 
> So PCT means just "a post cycle therapy abling to heal (or restore) the right own endogenous hormones releasing at the glands.
> 
> Just one shot! (IF the therapy is the right one obviously. Otherwise ,if it's wrong, your own hormone secretion will remain forever ,say, "shotdonned").
> 
> Just a couple of minutes takes up an endogenous hormone (or the gland too) to get to be restored. When you all are see your own damaged hormone (the one you need to restored) is employing too much time (days or weeks!) so you are not in the right pathway that leads to salvation and restoring.
> 
> Let's think for example to that old The Temple of Doom's Indiana Jones movie! where he needed the antidote (just that one will can save his organism, nothing else. just that one) to heal from that poison issue he took.
> 
> In fact the rule is just that: For every poison it does exist just one RIGHT antidote only; not severals, but just only one, the most right, effective. All others "therapies" are just wrongs. Only expedient I meant.
> 
> In that identical same way the glands and their own hormones behaviour do: when you insert an exogenous hormon into your body, not important how long or how, your body will send a signal to the gland which will shotdown FOREVER the production of its own hormone (the one that you used. You all will realize this when stop the exogenous hormones usage. In a few months many of you will get a production deficiency up something).
> 
> What's the key? As that movie teachs it exist just one specific true effective antidote for each poisoning (or glands shotdown too) capable to make your organism come back to work as rightly and well asright as it did before you started to put that exogenous stuff inside of it.
> 
> In a few words the PCT refers to a specific hormone you need and want get it to be restored. So it does NOT always mean a therapy or a cure up the own testosterone production.
> 
> Now, why Clomid, Nolva, Proviron or other mountain of SERM stuff or other "PCT" i read here (or everywhere) do not WORK, W/O solve one's issues up the testosterone production?
> 
> S I M P L Y why that's not the right way, not the real right "antidote" to exit WELL out from a AAS cycle allowing you enjoy to your own HPTA healing. It's not been restored indeed. It'll take a couple of week (or less or maybe more) to make you realize that, but the point is: you are again inside the problem. The gland is again "firm" and doesn't want return to weak-up that hormone which it going to stay "shotdowned" or "under-released" forever.
> 
> Now you doint realize that (expecially if are on hormones) but you will trust me when will stop to use exogenous stuff forever. So you'll trust me.
> 
> Try to stop the adsumption of everything an stop to observe what your hit&sunk hormone will do. It'll continue to remain "under-released", does'n it?
> 
> I dont know if my spelling is enough clear or not, coz my English sucks a bit and it's a messy mess, so sorry in advance. I try to do my best.


I'm no expert on this but an obvious flaw with your theory is that testosterone is pretty much the only naturally occurring hormone in the body that bodybuilders etc take. I am not aware of a Trenbolone axis nor a nandrolone axis as these are not produced by the body naturally therefore there is nothing to restart. Testosterone is and is therefore the important one.

Also thyroid meds do shut down natural production but unless you have an actual thyroid problem it bounces back very quickly on it's own. Hgh I'm less sure about but would imagine that also recovered pretty fast on it's own.

Ultimately test will recover on it's own too but pct is designed to make it quicker so you feel sh1t for less time and you keep more of the gains you made on the cycle.


----------



## 3752

there is no such thing as a Trenbalone axis or nandrolone axis please if you are going to correct someone who pretty much knows everything about PCT at least get what your saying correct.

this is the 2nd time you have corrected someone with bad information...

also please if you are going to copy and paste a section of text then at least ref the source.....as those who have seen your other posts can plainly see that you are not the person who wrote this piece of text.


----------



## Ginger Ben

Pscarb said:


> there is no such thing as a Trenbalone axis or nandrolone axis please if you are going to correct someone who pretty much knows everything about PCT at least get what your saying correct.
> 
> this is the 2nd time you have corrected someone with bad information...
> 
> also please if you are going to copy and paste a section of text then at least ref the source.....as those who have seen your other posts can plainly see that you are not the person who wrote this piece of text.


Are you aiming that at me? I'm well aware there aren't tren or nandrolone axis that's what I said. I also haven't copied this from anywhere?


----------



## 3752

Ginger Ben said:


> Are you aiming that at me? I'm well aware there aren't tren or nandrolone axis that's what I said. I also haven't copied this from anywhere?


ha ha no mate my post was aimed at Readerpride......

i skimmed his post then read yours....


----------



## Ginger Ben

Pscarb said:


> ha ha no mate my post was aimed at Readerpride......
> 
> i skimmed his post then read yours....


Phew thought it was a bit strong lol


----------



## 3752

Ginger Ben said:


> Phew thought it was a bit strong lol


no mate, i aimed at him (sorry for not being clear) i have just replied to another one of his corrective posts about peptides......he picked the wrong forum for that lol


----------



## DaveCW

Readerpride said:


> Hi all,
> 
> sorry but I dont agree with this common concept I continue to read into the board of the whole world.
> 
> there's a fundamental error.
> 
> You all believe the PCT refers to the restoring of own testosterone or to the JPTA, but it's wrong. Certainly there's the PCT for restore own HPTA ,of course, but what about how to restore other hormones (not the testosterone so) deficiency? Well, exist other PCTs.
> 
> In a few words it exist a specifiuc PCT for each hormone or gland or stuff you woul need to make it restored.
> 
> So.."What does PCT mean?" Simple! It means Post Cycle Therapy. Period!
> 
> So it doesn't refer to the HPTA only, but it refers to EVERY glandular axis.
> 
> Do you all really believe that just AAS users need a PCT after their exogenous testosterone cycles? NO!
> 
> What for example about up all those Bbuilders that run hundreds different types of hormones (so not just testosterone indeed)??
> 
> They also need a PCT.
> 
> PCT means post cycle therapy. Period.
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous Testosterone so you'll need a testosterone-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary tests axis (HPTA).
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous insulin so you'll need a insulin-PCT to restore your own insulin-pancreatic acinar axis ("IPAA" ? dont know the right code)
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous hGH or IGF-1 so you'll need a hGH-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary IGF-1 axis
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous thyroid hormones so you'll need a thyroid-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary thyroid axis (HPT axis)
> 
> And so on and on and on, dipendently to what/which type of exogenous hormone you had used.
> 
> So PCT means just "a post cycle therapy abling to heal (or restore) the right own endogenous hormones releasing at the glands.
> 
> Just one shot! (IF the therapy is the right one obviously. Otherwise ,if it's wrong, your own hormone secretion will remain forever ,say, "shotdonned").
> 
> Just a couple of minutes takes up an endogenous hormone (or the gland too) to get to be restored. When you all are see your own damaged hormone (the one you need to restored) is employing too much time (days or weeks!) so you are not in the right pathway that leads to salvation and restoring.
> 
> Let's think for example to that old The Temple of Doom's Indiana Jones movie! where he needed the antidote (just that one will can save his organism, nothing else. just that one) to heal from that poison issue he took.
> 
> In fact the rule is just that: For every poison it does exist just one RIGHT antidote only; not severals, but just only one, the most right, effective. All others "therapies" are just wrongs. Only expedient I meant.
> 
> In that identical same way the glands and their own hormones behaviour do: when you insert an exogenous hormon into your body, not important how long or how, your body will send a signal to the gland which will shotdown FOREVER the production of its own hormone (the one that you used. You all will realize this when stop the exogenous hormones usage. In a few months many of you will get a production deficiency up something).
> 
> What's the key? As that movie teachs it exist just one specific true effective antidote for each poisoning (or glands shotdown too) capable to make your organism come back to work as rightly and well asright as it did before you started to put that exogenous stuff inside of it.
> 
> In a few words the PCT refers to a specific hormone you need and want get it to be restored. So it does NOT always mean a therapy or a cure up the own testosterone production.
> 
> Now, why Clomid, Nolva, Proviron or other mountain of SERM stuff or other "PCT" i read here (or everywhere) do not WORK, W/O solve one's issues up the testosterone production?
> 
> S I M P L Y why that's not the right way, not the real right "antidote" to exit WELL out from a AAS cycle allowing you enjoy to your own HPTA healing. It's not been restored indeed. It'll take a couple of week (or less or maybe more) to make you realize that, but the point is: you are again inside the problem. The gland is again "firm" and doesn't want return to weak-up that hormone which it going to stay "shotdowned" or "under-released" forever.
> 
> Now you doint realize that (expecially if are on hormones) but you will trust me when will stop to use exogenous stuff forever. So you'll trust me.
> 
> Try to stop the adsumption of everything an stop to observe what your hit&sunk hormone will do. It'll continue to remain "under-released", does'n it?
> 
> I dont know if my spelling is enough clear or not, coz my English sucks a bit and it's a messy mess, so sorry in advance. I try to do my best.


Completely flawed.

All anabolic steroids are chemical derivatives of the male sex hormone, testosterone. Due to testosterone's short biological half-life, pharmacological use requires the steroid be modified to slow metabolism by the liver. Typically, oral steroids are modified primarily by alkylation (replacing an H with a CH3 group), while injectable steroids are modified by esterification of the hydroxyl group.

Test is.... well test.

Nandrolone is a modification of testosterone which has had a carbon atom removed at the 19th position. making it a 19-nor

Tren is similar to Nadrolone but only on paper, it too has a test molecule which has been altered making it a 19-nor also.

We now see that all the compounds really don't need a separate pct because they all make use of the same pathways, some will shut you down harder than others but provided you use the correct protocol for whatever compound or stack of compounds your kickstart of the HPTA will happen.

Also don't confuse recovery with a kick start because PCT is going to bring things back online while recovery takes time.

As for HGH, i would love to see your pct protocol for that, it would be interesting to hear how you reboot your pituitary gland which fyi control's your Thyroid.

Hypothalamus > Pituitary Gland > Thyroid (this is the chain of command in that order).

The hypothalamus releases a hormone called thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH), which sends a signal to the pituitary to release thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH). In turn, TSH sends a signal to the thyroid to release thyroid hormones.

So HPTA and the rest will follow are you with me so far cupcake ?

Do your homework next time.


----------



## hackskii

Readerpride said:


> Hi all,
> 
> sorry but I dont agree with this common concept I continue to read into the board of the whole world.
> 
> there's a fundamental error.
> 
> You all believe the PCT refers to the restoring of own testosterone or to the JPTA, but it's wrong. Certainly there's the PCT for restore own HPTA ,of course, but what about how to restore other hormones (not the testosterone so) deficiency? Well, exist other PCTs.
> 
> In a few words it exist a specifiuc PCT for each hormone or gland or stuff you woul need to make it restored.
> 
> So.."What does PCT mean?" Simple! It means Post Cycle Therapy. Period!
> 
> So it doesn't refer to the HPTA only, but it refers to EVERY glandular axis.
> 
> Do you all really believe that just AAS users need a PCT after their exogenous testosterone cycles? NO!
> 
> What for example about up all those Bbuilders that run hundreds different types of hormones (so not just testosterone indeed)??
> 
> They also need a PCT.
> 
> PCT means post cycle therapy. Period.
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous Testosterone so you'll need a testosterone-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary tests axis (HPTA).
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous insulin so you'll need a insulin-PCT to restore your own insulin-pancreatic acinar axis ("IPAA" ? dont know the right code)
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous hGH or IGF-1 so you'll need a hGH-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary IGF-1 axis
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous thyroid hormones so you'll need a thyroid-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary thyroid axis (HPT axis)
> 
> And so on and on and on, dipendently to what/which type of exogenous hormone you had used.
> 
> So PCT means just "a post cycle therapy abling to heal (or restore) the right own endogenous hormones releasing at the glands.
> 
> Just one shot! (IF the therapy is the right one obviously. Otherwise ,if it's wrong, your own hormone secretion will remain forever ,say, "shotdonned").
> 
> Just a couple of minutes takes up an endogenous hormone (or the gland too) to get to be restored. When you all are see your own damaged hormone (the one you need to restored) is employing too much time (days or weeks!) so you are not in the right pathway that leads to salvation and restoring.
> 
> Let's think for example to that old The Temple of Doom's Indiana Jones movie! where he needed the antidote (just that one will can save his organism, nothing else. just that one) to heal from that poison issue he took.
> 
> In fact the rule is just that: For every poison it does exist just one RIGHT antidote only; not severals, but just only one, the most right, effective. All others "therapies" are just wrongs. Only expedient I meant.
> 
> In that identical same way the glands and their own hormones behaviour do: when you insert an exogenous hormon into your body, not important how long or how, your body will send a signal to the gland which will shotdown FOREVER the production of its own hormone (the one that you used. You all will realize this when stop the exogenous hormones usage. In a few months many of you will get a production deficiency up something).
> 
> What's the key? As that movie teachs it exist just one specific true effective antidote for each poisoning (or glands shotdown too) capable to make your organism come back to work as rightly and well asright as it did before you started to put that exogenous stuff inside of it.
> 
> In a few words the PCT refers to a specific hormone you need and want get it to be restored. So it does NOT always mean a therapy or a cure up the own testosterone production.
> 
> Now, why Clomid, Nolva, Proviron or other mountain of SERM stuff or other "PCT" i read here (or everywhere) do not WORK, W/O solve one's issues up the testosterone production?
> 
> S I M P L Y why that's not the right way, not the real right "antidote" to exit WELL out from a AAS cycle allowing you enjoy to your own HPTA healing. It's not been restored indeed. It'll take a couple of week (or less or maybe more) to make you realize that, but the point is: you are again inside the problem. The gland is again "firm" and doesn't want return to weak-up that hormone which it going to stay "shotdowned" or "under-released" forever.
> 
> Now you doint realize that (expecially if are on hormones) but you will trust me when will stop to use exogenous stuff forever. So you'll trust me.
> 
> Try to stop the adsumption of everything an stop to observe what your hit&sunk hormone will do. It'll continue to remain "under-released", does'n it?
> 
> I dont know if my spelling is enough clear or not, coz my English sucks a bit and it's a messy mess, so sorry in advance. I try to do my best.


Ok, many flaws here.

First the thyroid does not need to restart, guys on for years recover pretty fast doing nothing, it is not perminant.

HGH, same, that pituitary fires GH while in REM sleep, l-arginine is used to test the pituitary by endo docs, once you use it during the day it does not interfere with nocturnal production, GH is in and out pretty fast, then the liver converts it to IGF-1, GH is so fast that the only way is to test for its longer IGF-1.

So, GH is in and out, it is not permanent, and once stopped it will go back to the levels as before.

Even the use of steroids all things return over time with nothing done.

Insulin as well can be used as it gets pulsed from the pancreas after a meal is eaten.

Insulin is used dossed after eating or just before, so it is timed around when the food was eaten as to not lower blood sugars too low and you can die.

The issue with insulin is not an issue either.

So, no need to do anything with thyroid, HGH, or insulin.

Biggest issue is the nuts for recovery as they are not glands, but different types of cells for testosterone and sperm production, is the fact they actually atrophy.

Like breaking an arm and putting it in a cast it atrophies.

Once the cast comes off the arm, it is weak and does not function like normal.

But with some therapy it will rehab just back to normal again.

Like the nuts if nothing was done and you are shut down it may take up to a year to recover, or many months depending on what steroid one may have used.

When boys nuts do not drop, they give them hCG, when one is secondary hypogonadism they use clomid to test the pituitary for LH, and FSH response.

Using an analogy for a TV and a complex hormonal issue does not quite fit, TV's do not maintain homeostasis. :lol:


----------



## 39005

tbh ive never seen so much complete bollox posted by a new member in such a short space of time in different sub sections and targeting people that know what they are talking about - i think you are being trolled fellas - i would not even waste your time typing up a reply trying to educate the idiot.

@hackskii @Pscarb


----------



## DaveCW

Readerpride said:


> Hi bro, i go to reply to you too:
> 
> its not the case of mine
> 
> its not the case of mine
> 
> its not the case of mine
> 
> its not the case of mine
> 
> its not the case of mine
> 
> So something is wrong with me?? Everything I run something so it'll cause a shut down at my onw correspective hormone or enzyme.
> 
> This my experience of my own:
> 
> If i run androgens i get a permanent shut down at my own ones.
> 
> If i run hgh i get a hgh and IGF-1 lowering in permanently wey within ,say, few weeks (even just by one hgh shot only!).
> 
> Years ago I ran just a 15days of a synthetic thyroid hormone as thyroxine (T4) and got a permanent shut down. The following year docs put me under a T4 therapy vos my own TSH had got to stay too high, after that 14days exogenous thyroxin i use the previouw year (12 months before). is the fact thyroid too actually atrophy (not just nuts).
> 
> Then i was subjected under the insulin stimulation test (by one .9mg of insulin shot in vein) in endocrinology, to get the values of my hgh peaks.
> 
> Then i got a permanent insulin shut down too at my own release.
> 
> So, i get the feeling the story about PCT is not that much as you tell, and there's the need to restore not just the nuts.
> 
> In a fews words mates, I got this:
> 
> everything I run , then ill get a deficiency at my own release within a few days or weeks. my thyroid needs to be restored for example.


Yes there is something wrong with you.

Perhaps you have some underlying health problems.

When you use anything it's like throwing a rock into a still pool, there will be a splash and ripple but eventually the water will settle again.

Exactly the same with your system.

You run the drugs you choose and everything gets switched off and then when your done you switch it all back on again and wait for Human homeostasis to be achieved on it's own.

You can manage things to reduce impact but that is all you can do.


----------



## hackskii

Look, stop taking all drugs and let the body reset itself.

Your condition is one in a million and that is it, this suggests to me stop all drugs.

I never ever heard of anyone like you, in fact it sounds like a story made up.

With hyperthyroidism they whack the thyroid with radiation then supplement with thyroid meds.

Using your logic they should give them thyroid meds, and shut them down and reduce the dose and keep them on that for life.

They give GH to kids that cant grow, then they do not supplement that for life.

Much of what you say just sounds crazy.


----------



## Brockfan

Wow! Way to much "paralysis by analysis". All that over thinking will drive you crazy. It's all how you feel. After PCT If you have energy throughout the day, are able to function and go to work and workout along with a decent sex life then I would consider it a success. Your never gonna feel as good off the gas as when you are on the gas. Blood work is the key. How anyone can even know where to begin or end without blood work boggles my mind but so many guys plow into this PCT thing and I know they don't do blood work.

PCT is a guess science and a lot of 'bro science". LOL. Follow the PCT protocols to a tee. Keep a positive mind and a daily journal. Know ahead of time you are gonna have some bad days where you feel a little tired or just feel like crap but I think every human has those days even if they never did steroids.


----------



## DaveCW

hackskii said:


> Look, stop taking all drugs and let the body reset itself.
> 
> Your condition is one in a million and that is it, this suggests to me stop all drugs.
> 
> I never ever heard of anyone like you, in fact it sounds like a story made up.
> 
> With hyperthyroidism they whack the thyroid with radiation then supplement with thyroid meds.
> 
> Using your logic they should give them thyroid meds, and shut them down and reduce the dose and keep them on that for life.
> 
> They give GH to kids that cant grow, then they do not supplement that for life.
> 
> Much of what you say just sounds crazy.


Hackskii i think we are being dragged down and beaten with experience with this fella. :lol:


----------



## funkdocta

Readerpride said:


> Hi all,
> 
> sorry but I dont agree with this common concept I continue to read into the board of the whole world.
> 
> there's a fundamental error.
> 
> You all believe the PCT refers to the restoring of own testosterone or to the JPTA, but it's wrong. Certainly there's the PCT for restore own HPTA ,of course, but what about how to restore other hormones (not the testosterone so) deficiency? Well, exist other PCTs.
> 
> In a few words it exist a specifiuc PCT for each hormone or gland or stuff you woul need to make it restored.
> 
> So.."What does PCT mean?" Simple! It means Post Cycle Therapy. Period!
> 
> So it doesn't refer to the HPTA only, but it refers to EVERY glandular axis.
> 
> Do you all really believe that just AAS users need a PCT after their exogenous testosterone cycles? NO!
> 
> What for example about up all those Bbuilders that run hundreds different types of hormones (so not just testosterone indeed)??
> 
> They also need a PCT.
> 
> PCT means post cycle therapy. Period.
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous Testosterone so you'll need a testosterone-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary tests axis (HPTA).
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous insulin so you'll need a insulin-PCT to restore your own insulin-pancreatic acinar axis ("IPAA" ? dont know the right code)
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous hGH or IGF-1 so you'll need a hGH-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary IGF-1 axis
> 
> Let's suppose you ran exogenous thyroid hormones so you'll need a thyroid-PCT to restore your own hypotalamus pituitary thyroid axis (HPT axis)
> 
> And so on and on and on, dipendently to what/which type of exogenous hormone you had used.
> 
> So PCT means just "a post cycle therapy abling to heal (or restore) the right own endogenous hormones releasing at the glands.
> 
> Just one shot! (IF the therapy is the right one obviously. Otherwise ,if it's wrong, your own hormone secretion will remain forever ,say, "shotdonned").
> 
> Just a couple of minutes takes up an endogenous hormone (or the gland too) to get to be restored. When you all are see your own damaged hormone (the one you need to restored) is employing too much time (days or weeks!) so you are not in the right pathway that leads to salvation and restoring.
> 
> Let's think for example to that old The Temple of Doom's Indiana Jones movie! where he needed the antidote (just that one will can save his organism, nothing else. just that one) to heal from that poison issue he took.
> 
> In fact the rule is just that: For every poison it does exist just one RIGHT antidote only; not severals, but just only one, the most right, effective. All others "therapies" are just wrongs. Only expedient I meant.
> 
> In that identical same way the glands and their own hormones behaviour do: when you insert an exogenous hormon into your body, not important how long or how, your body will send a signal to the gland which will shotdown FOREVER the production of its own hormone (the one that you used. You all will realize this when stop the exogenous hormones usage. In a few months many of you will get a production deficiency up something).
> 
> What's the key? As that movie teachs it exist just one specific true effective antidote for each poisoning (or glands shotdown too) capable to make your organism come back to work as rightly and well asright as it did before you started to put that exogenous stuff inside of it.
> 
> In a few words the PCT refers to a specific hormone you need and want get it to be restored. So it does NOT always mean a therapy or a cure up the own testosterone production.
> 
> Now, why Clomid, Nolva, Proviron or other mountain of SERM stuff or other "PCT" i read here (or everywhere) do not WORK, W/O solve one's issues up the testosterone production?
> 
> S I M P L Y why that's not the right way, not the real right "antidote" to exit WELL out from a AAS cycle allowing you enjoy to your own HPTA healing. It's not been restored indeed. It'll take a couple of week (or less or maybe more) to make you realize that, but the point is: you are again inside the problem. The gland is again "firm" and doesn't want return to weak-up that hormone which it going to stay "shotdowned" or "under-released" forever.
> 
> Now you doint realize that (expecially if are on hormones) but you will trust me when will stop to use exogenous stuff forever. So you'll trust me.
> 
> Try to stop the adsumption of everything an stop to observe what your hit&sunk hormone will do. It'll continue to remain "under-released", does'n it?
> 
> I dont know if my spelling is enough clear or not, coz my English sucks a bit and it's a messy mess, so sorry in advance. I try to do my best.


----------



## hackskii

Readerpride said:


> Had already done mate. Alreay tried. I got to stay YEARS w/o taking NOTHING but mmy gland system continued to worsen.
> 
> what does "a made up story" mean?
> 
> Strange point of view, cos i read and seen many many many patients with thyroid issues and hgh shut downs be forced to remain under the replacement therapy for the rest of their life! evidently the glands system of ones works different than others'
> 
> For example: in July i taken a 7-keto DHEA cycle (my first ever) then i started to geel bad. The blood tests are too fresh now to be able to diagnosize a deficiency at my own 6-keto dhea, but i was getting a lot of sides as ones who are affected by the 7-ketho DHEA deficiency.
> 
> Then i tried to taken a DHEA supplement and something up me seemed go better, but other things dont.
> 
> (So now, i get the feeling to have got an adrenals issue too.





DaveCW said:


> Hackskii i think we are being dragged down and beaten with experience with this fella. :lol:


DHEA is the only hormone that does not lower endogenous production when supplementing it.

So, if you are saying that taking DHEA caused endogenous production to lower then this suggest you are not being so forth coming with what you are talking about.


----------



## Ahal84

God is Readerpride spouting crap in here as well? Definitely a troll.


----------



## FoxyQuik

hackskii said:


> Understanding PCT
> 
> PCT, what does it mean?
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy.
> 
> What does it do?
> 
> It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
> 
> How long does it last?
> 
> Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
> 
> Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
> 
> So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
> 
> Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
> 
> The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
> 
> Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
> 
> So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
> 
> OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
> 
> This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
> 
> I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
> 
> So, what can you do?
> 
> First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
> 
> The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
> 
> The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
> 
> If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
> 
> One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
> 
> HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
> 
> Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
> 
> How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
> 
> It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
> 
> Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
> 
> Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
> 
> Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
> 
> What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
> 
> Ok, so lets put this all together.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can do this.
> 
> First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
> 
> Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
> 
> That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
> 
> So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
> 
> You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
> 
> By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
> 
> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
> 
> I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
> 
> If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
> 
> Cheers.


Starting my twelfth week of 500mg Test e, and 5th week of 100mg anavar tomorrow.....have run arimidex at 0.25 mg eod all cycle.......no HCG as of yet, PCT will be clomid at 100mg for 30 days, nolva at 20mg for 45 days, 3 weeks after last jab, should I start HCG whilst on the cycle now? And all the way up until end of PCT? Would i keep the dosing the same? Really concerned about recovery now, could you please advise the best possible plan for recovery, thanks in advance


----------



## hackskii

Well, you probably will need hCG for testicular function, cycles over 12 weeks can be a bit herder to recover from.


----------



## FoxyQuik

hackskii said:


> Well, you probably will need hCG for testicular function, cycles over 12 weeks can be a bit herder to recover from.


Would you recommend say a dosage of around 1500 a week ( 500 x 3 ) until the end of the cycle, take a two week break start HCG again at 2500 eod when PCT starts?


----------



## hackskii

FoxyQuik said:


> Would you recommend say a dosage of around 1500 a week ( 500 x 3 ) until the end of the cycle, take a two week break start HCG again at 2500 eod when PCT starts?


might as well wait till you are done now.


----------



## Gurlaash

Hi.. I am on the 9th week of my 10 week cycle of Test-E 750 mgs a week and Stanozolol 30 mg ED ( took this for 7 weeks)

Been taking Arimedex 0.5 E3D through out with HCG 1000X2iu a week.

What I have understood so far is that I will have to up my dose of HCG to 2500iu for total of 8 shots only, EOD during PCT With Nolva 40 for 45 and Clomid 100 for 30 days.

Right ?

The two weeks period between the last jab of test and before the first day of PCT is what I am not sure about. Should I keep on with my 2000iu per week as I did during the cycle or should I stop and wait for the PCT ?

Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Well, if you have been using hCG at 1000iu twice a week you will not need to use that during your PCT, testicular function has been kept.

At 750mg per week of Test E, probably might want to wait a month before starting your SERMS.

Keep the hCG in the mix till you start your SERMS.


----------



## Gurlaash

hackskii said:


> Well, if you have been using hCG at 1000iu twice a week you will not need to use that during your PCT, testicular function has been kept.
> 
> At 750mg per week of Test E, probably might want to wait a month before starting your SERMS.
> 
> Keep the hCG in the mix till you start your SERMS.


Hi thanks for your time.. I thought two weeks were good enough for the body to clear Test E. Never thought the amount you inject in the body does make a difference. Hmmm. Ok. I can do what you suggest, no problemo.  thanks again.


----------



## DC1

@hackskii I'm 3.5 months after a power PCT and my Test levels are still very low (0.8).

Is there anything i can do to give the Test production a boost? Would clomid help?

I was on Test, Tren and Mast for roughly 7 months.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## hackskii

DC1 said:


> @hackskii I'm 3.5 months after a power PCT and my Test levels are still very low (0.8).
> 
> Is there anything i can do to give the Test production a boost? Would clomid help?
> 
> I was on Test, Tren and Mast for roughly 7 months.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Is that a typo?

.8

What is the reference ranges?


----------



## DC1

hackskii said:


> Is that a typo?
> 
> .8
> 
> What is the reference ranges?


Not a typo unfortunately. I asked the doctor twice for clarity. 0.8 with a range between 8-29 I think.


----------



## hackskii

DC1 said:


> Not a typo unfortunately. I asked the doctor twice for clarity. 0.8 with a range between 8-29 I think.


I posted on your thread but it looks like your hCG was probably no good.

I would modify the power PCT myself.

You will need 20,000iu hCG, and run that every 3 days at 2000iu

nolva at 20mg during the hCG phase of things.

After 3 weeks get bloods done, if in range (which you should be) then drop the hCG and add clomid along with the nolva at 100mg per day for 2 to 3 weeks, then drop to 50mg per day for another couple of months.

Vitamin D at 5000iu right now.


----------



## DC1

hackskii said:


> I posted on your thread but it looks like your hCG was probably no good.
> 
> I would modify the power PCT myself.
> 
> You will need 20,000iu hCG, and run that every 3 days at 2000iu
> 
> nolva at 20mg during the hCG phase of things.
> 
> After 3 weeks get bloods done, if in range (which you should be) then drop the hCG and add clomid along with the nolva at 100mg per day for 2 to 3 weeks, then drop to 50mg per day for another couple of months.
> 
> Vitamin D at 5000iu right now.


Thanks for that mate.

I will see what hcg my source is carrying. Have nolva and clomid to hand.

Been taking 6000iu vit D3 for a number of weeks now along with a multi n fish oils.


----------



## john95

Brilliant thread, I've been researching PCT for a while and I had some questions and this cleared many up.

I was wondering, if I was to go on test e for the 500mg 12 week cycle alone, is this too long of a cycle for hcg to be taken with or can you take it every three days during cycle? Something about testicular atrophy makes me nervous  if you take hcg during cycle, there'd be no need to take it with PCT then, right?

Thanks again for the thread!


----------



## hackskii

john95 said:


> Brilliant thread, I've been researching PCT for a while and I had some questions and this cleared many up.
> 
> I was wondering, if I was to go on test e for the 500mg 12 week cycle alone, is this too long of a cycle for hcg to be taken with or can you take it every three days during cycle? Something about testicular atrophy makes me nervous  if you take hcg during cycle, there'd be no need to take it with PCT then, right?
> 
> Thanks again for the thread!


It is not too long, and yes hCG during will keep testicular function, I would run it all the way during the clearance time of your gear as well at 500iu twice a week.


----------



## ukviking

Finally some clear answers and opinions on pct been putting of my next cycle for weeks because of pct confusion


----------



## M4RCUS

yep, agreed - Awesome info throughout - Cleared the Q's I had with PCT thanks @hackskii - in response to your reply above regarding Test E cycle, do you mean just run hcg 500iu x2-week on the 2week off period after the 12weeks only? Or 500iu x2 throughout the 12weeks? Sorry if it's me not reading things right.. Starting Test E soon so seeing whats best/preffered with hcg. Ta


----------



## hackskii

You run the hCG at 500iu twice a week throughout the cycle including clearance time of the gear before starting the PCT using the SERMS.


----------



## sauliuhas

am trying to research about mesterolone aka proviron, and a lot of mixed results of studies,

starting to think that a very low dose is most effective 25-50mg/day. am I right? or not?

The Effects of Mesterolone on Patients with Impaired Spermatogenesis and Sexual Disorders - Springer


----------



## Amazingmonkey

great post

so if i did a 15week cycle at 300mg e3d so 900mg every 9days works 100mg a day test...200mg shot tren e e3d for like 10weeks abit of mastron 200mg a week mite double it to 400mg then only on 5weeks at the end of the 10weeks test in the middle of the 15weeks test

first what you think of the cycle i have winny aswel but the tren being a 19nor dont wanna do too much on the liver

2nd would i be better off doing 500iu hcg in my 4th week till 17th week then do pct with clomid maybe nov that i can get hold of so no problem there...and i already have adex to hang that il use 0.5 eod in cycle

you seem a person of high stranded and your in put would be great thanks


----------



## hackskii

500iu hCG twice a week will maintain testicular function.

As long as your cycle, it wont matter as hCG directly stimulates testicular function.

I would shoot my gear once a week.

Keep an AI on hand just in case for estrogenic sides.


----------



## hackskii

sauliuhas said:


> am trying to research about mesterolone aka proviron, and a lot of mixed results of studies,
> 
> starting to think that a very low dose is most effective 25-50mg/day. am I right? or not?
> 
> The Effects of Mesterolone on Patients with Impaired Spermatogenesis and Sexual Disorders - Springer


It wont hurt to use proviron.


----------



## hackskii

I do feel it wont help with recovery, it may perhaps help with sperm production, but as far as helping recovery, I would use it post PCT myself.


----------



## sauliuhas

I came to conclusion about proviron that its androgen and it doesn't help with hpta recovery,

One study suject that it's superior on TRT with test deconate 40% improved.

However in my personal experience, when u feel shait and can't perform in bed, it's like a miracle lol


----------



## hackskii

sauliuhas said:


> I came to conclusion about proviron that its androgen and it doesn't help with hpta recovery,
> 
> One study suject that it's superior on TRT with test deconate 40% improved.
> 
> However in my personal experience, when u feel shait and can't perform in bed, it's like a miracle lol


Steroids make my voice feel like it is lower, proviron does that to me too.

I can actually feel proviron like other steroids, just not at low dose.


----------



## FelonE1

hackskii said:


> Steroids make my voice feel like it is lower, proviron does that to me too.
> 
> I can actually feel proviron like other steroids, just not at low dose.


Was just saying to the Mrs yesterday my voice sounds different lol


----------



## Glenquagmire

Ok. Sorry if this has been covered before.

20 month on cycle. Age 48. HCG every week @1000iu. Will run HCG @1000iu weekly till test clears

Last jab of test E 20 days ago. Will wait another 7 days for Test to clear. Do i need to do standard Clomid/Nolva PCT?

If i need to do the 2000iu HCG for 30 days followed by Clomid / Nolva, at what point do i start the 2000iu HCG?

If im not recovered by summer next yr ill go to docs for help ot TRT! @hackskii but any advice from anyone appreciated.

Ta.


----------



## hackskii

Glenquagmire said:


> Ok. Sorry if this has been covered before.
> 
> 20 month on cycle. Age 48. HCG every week @1000iu. Will run HCG @1000iu weekly till test clears
> 
> Last jab of test E 20 days ago. Will wait another 7 days for Test to clear. Do i need to do standard Clomid/Nolva PCT?
> 
> If i need to do the 2000iu HCG for 30 days followed by Clomid / Nolva, at what point do i start the 2000iu HCG?
> 
> If im not recovered by summer next yr ill go to docs for help ot TRT! @hackskii but any advice from anyone appreciated.
> 
> Ta.


Just run the clomid at 100mg for 3 weeks, and 20mg of nolva for 6 weeks.

You can drop the clomid to 50 for 2 weeks.

20 weeks at your age may be an issue for recovery but it should work.


----------



## Glenquagmire

@hackskii....its 20 months not 20 weeks.!

So is the advice still the same.

Thanks


----------



## Glenquagmire

Bit of a bump as i know @hackskii is around.

Hackskii, your reply mentioned my cycle as 20 weeks, but it was 20 months.


----------



## hackskii

Is there a question?


----------



## hackskii

If you ran hCG at 1000iu per week, and ran during clearance of the gear, you probably can get away with what I suggested earlier.


----------



## Doug3fresh

hello, i am usually in other forums but i came across this thread a couple months ago and wanted some feedback so i created an account.

test p and var cycle

wks 1-10 test p @ 500mg

wks 1-8 anavar @ 60mg, 80mg for last 2 wks

arimidex .25-.5mg E3d or same as test pin (suggestions?)

hcg

pct:

clomid and nolva

now i have some questions, hoping i can get some help.

I read somewhere you cant run Arimidex with nolva due to it lowering blood plasma levels, is aromasin a good alternative?

i want to run clomid and nolva, is both excessive? with t prop having a short life, and with the use of hcg, curious on dosing the clomid and nolva.

is hcg really necessary throughout the whole cycle? some say it will hinder my gains... i was planning on running 250-500icu...

some have posted tapering their pct, while some just run both starting 2 days after last test p pin.

i also have hair loss on my moms side, suggestions?

i know anavar isnt as bad on your liver, but i read about NAC having wounderful results, do you think its necessary or have any suggestions?

i know these get annoying. i cant tell you how much reading i have done, with pages and pages of notes, i have learned a lot but i still want some feedback. i have been lifting since i was 19, im 27 now and have wanted to take a cycle for years but always put it off until i platoed, well i injured myself a year ago and im finally healed and plan to run this in 3 months. 6'1 195lbs, some fat to lose before i get started to get full use out of the var but im finally ready.


----------



## hackskii

Doug3fresh said:


> hello, i am usually in other forums but i came across this thread a couple months ago and wanted some feedback so i created an account.
> 
> test p and var cycle
> 
> wks 1-10 test p @ 500mg
> 
> wks 1-8 anavar @ 60mg, 80mg for last 2 wks
> 
> arimidex .25-.5mg E3d or same as test pin (suggestions?)
> 
> hcg
> 
> pct:
> 
> clomid and nolva
> 
> now i have some questions, hoping i can get some help.
> 
> I read somewhere you cant run Arimidex with nolva due to it lowering blood plasma levels, is aromasin a good alternative?
> 
> i want to run clomid and nolva, is both excessive? with t prop having a short life, and with the use of hcg, curious on dosing the clomid and nolva.
> 
> is hcg really necessary throughout the whole cycle? some say it will hinder my gains... i was planning on running 250-500icu...
> 
> some have posted tapering their pct, while some just run both starting 2 days after last test p pin.
> 
> i also have hair loss on my moms side, suggestions?
> 
> i know anavar isnt as bad on your liver, but i read about NAC having wounderful results, do you think its necessary or have any suggestions?
> 
> i know these get annoying. i cant tell you how much reading i have done, with pages and pages of notes, i have learned a lot but i still want some feedback. i have been lifting since i was 19, im 27 now and have wanted to take a cycle for years but always put it off until i platoed, well i injured myself a year ago and im finally healed and plan to run this in 3 months. 6'1 195lbs, some fat to lose before i get started to get full use out of the var but im finally ready.


hCG throughout at 500iu twice a week will keep testicular function and not hinder gains,making recovery easy.

Clomid, & nolva are run post cycle so no issue with the AI as that is run during and not after.

Clomid at 100mg per day for 3 weeks, nolva 20mg for a month.

Run hCG up to last pin along with the AI, then drop and add the SERMS for PCT.


----------



## PeterPann

Hello, Hackskii. I need advice. I haven't recovered from my last cycle. I always followed your PCT protocol and recovered well, but not this time. I'm 28. It was my 5th cycle. It was my first deca cycle, but I had tren cycles before and had no problem with recovery. It has been 2 months since PCT ended and I had my blood work done.

Test level is 150 ng/dL

Estradiol < 6.1 pg/mL

LH 1.9 mIU/mL

FSH 0.5 mIU/mL

*Cycle* was

W 1-6 DBol 50 mg/ED

W 1-11 Test C 375 mg 2x/w (27 days till PCT)

W 1-10 Deca 250 mg 2x/w (34 day till PCT)

W 12-15 Test P 200 mg EOD

W 4-15 HCG 500 iu 2x/w

W 1-15 Arimidex 0.5 mg ED

W 1-15 Cabaser 0.5 mg 2x/w

*PCT* (4-5 days after last Test P injection)

W 16-19 (30days) Clomid 50 mg 2x/d

W 16-21 (45days) Nolva 20 mg/d

I did everything right, followed protocols, good diet, vitamin D and fish oil daily. My assumption that I might haven't recovered from previous cycle. I always run blood tests before and after cycles, but I haven't ran any before my last cycle. And I had a Test, Tren, Mast and Winny cycle. I felt fine after PCT, had oily skin and morning wood, so I decided not to do a blood work and jumped onto test, deca, dbol cycle 6 weeks after PCT.

Another hypothesis of my bad blood work is that I had a bad sickness for a long period of time during a PCT, which might affected me. It was a really bad cold or flu for 4-5 weeks right at the end of my PCT.

At 150 test level I feel miserable, always down, depression, no energy, can't focus, zero sex desire, I'm getting fat, loosing strength. I still get erections, but my gf has to work for it really hard. Testicles never atrophied, because I always run HCG throughout the cycle.

What to do? Should I run power PCT? I'm gonna go endocrinologist eventually if I won't recover. I don't have insurance and I'm not looking forward to TRT.

I appreciate your time Hackskii and I hope to hear from you soon.

Cheers.


----------



## hackskii

That deca is some nasty stuff for some, looks like either the deca was still active in your system inhibiting some, or your hCG kicked off and did not help you.

Try 2000iu shot of hCG, and 20mg nolva and shoot the hCG every 3 days, if after just a week, you should feel better.

150 ng/dL is low enough to interfere with erections and even sex.

Till you about double that sex will be very hard to do.

You will know within days of the shot of hCG if you need that.

Not sure how many shots will be needed as the nuts are semi-functional but probably at the very least 10,000iu hCG then you will need to do the SERMS again, probably not as long as before.

LH is in range, yet testosterone is not, this suggests the nuts are not responding to LH, or are sluggish.


----------



## raidon

I did 16 weeks of test 500mg ew.

Never experienced atrophy, maybe only a littlelittle. Used hcg throughout.

3 weeks almost from last jab, no loss of libido etc sides everything seems as on cycle.

What to do ? I guess without bloods theres no answer ? Full pct or try a week and see what happens or something ? @hackskii what do you think ?


----------



## PeterPann

hackskii said:


> That deca is some nasty stuff for some, looks like either the deca was still active in your system inhibiting some, or your hCG kicked off and did not help you.
> 
> Try 2000iu shot of hCG, and 20mg nolva and shoot the hCG every 3 days, if after just a week, you should feel better.
> 
> 150 ng/dL is low enough to interfere with erections and even sex.
> 
> Till you about double that sex will be very hard to do.
> 
> You will know within days of the shot of hCG if you need that.
> 
> Not sure how many shots will be needed as the nuts are semi-functional but probably at the very least 10,000iu hCG then you will need to do the SERMS again, probably not as long as before.
> 
> LH is in range, yet testosterone is not, this suggests the nuts are not responding to LH, or are sluggish.


Thank you for a quick respond. I know you warned many times about deca, I just had it laying around and I have had tren before with no problems, so I decided to try. I'll keep posted after I run this protocol and do blood works.

Have a nice day!


----------



## hackskii

raidon said:


> I did 16 weeks of test 500mg ew.
> 
> Never experienced atrophy, maybe only a littlelittle. Used hcg throughout.
> 
> 3 weeks almost from last jab, no loss of libido etc sides everything seems as on cycle.
> 
> What to do ? I guess without bloods theres no answer ? Full pct or try a week and see what happens or something ? @hackskii what do you think ?


Perhaps some clomid, or if you feel good then nothing.


----------



## hackskii

PeterPann said:


> Thank you for a quick respond. I know you warned many times about deca, I just had it laying around and I have had tren before with no problems, so I decided to try. I'll keep posted after I run this protocol and do blood works.
> 
> Have a nice day!


Well, both deca and tren are both 19-nortestosterones but that is about it, deca for shut down is the worst, and with a very long ester attached to it worse.

Just being able to test for it a year later means something.


----------



## raidon

hackskii said:


> Perhaps some clomid, or if you feel good then nothing.


Allright, Thank You. I think i'll do the first week 100mg clomid and 20mg nolva and then we'll see. It can't hurt right ?


----------



## timbear84

hackskii said:


> Well, both deca and tren are both 19-nortestosterones but that is about it, deca for shut down is the worst, and with a very long ester attached to it worse.
> 
> Just being able to test for it a year later means something.


Really deca can be tested for a year after cycle or have I mis understood that!


----------



## hackskii

timbear84 said:


> Really deca can be tested for a year after cycle or have I mis understood that!


For drug testing of athletes deca can be caught on a test a year later.


----------



## timbear84

hackskii said:


> For drug testing of athletes deca can be caught on a test a year later.


Bloody hell didnt know that. Iv never suffered long term from deca run two cycles and going to run a third soon. Amazes me how things affect people differently.


----------



## wernerh

Hi Guys

Hacks, THANK YOU for an excellent load of info. I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

I do very few cycles, far between and getting ready for another.

10 weeks.

250mg Test cyp /w

300mg Deca /w

Arimadex from about week 5. E3D, I can only get 1mg tabs.

When would you recommend starting HCG?

As far as I know Deca half life is 3 weeks. I will start with clomid and Nolva then - how much for how long would you say.

Thanks agian

Werner


----------



## hackskii

hCG would be 500iu twice a week starting second week would be fine, then run that throughout including clearance times of the gear.

4 weeks on the SERMS would be fine, you can run them a bit longer if you taper them down week 3 or so.


----------



## wernerh

:thumb: Scott

Thank you very much.

Is the Arimadex necessary ?


----------



## hackskii

wernerh said:


> :thumb: Scott
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Is the Arimadex necessary ?


Probably not necessary but if you did .5mg every like 4 days or so, if you get estrogenic sides then you can add that.


----------



## n666

Hello! im 25yo male.

im starting my first test e only cycle next week and thats my plan

week 1-10 500mg test e split on 2 x 250mg (Monday/Thursday)

week 1-12 Ai aromasin 12.5mg or adex 0.5 eod (adex in case i cant get aromasin) [im running it two weeks past last jab coz of long ester etc)

week 13-16 PCT clomid 50/50/25/25 + nolva 40/40/20/20

are these doses g2g ? i can get a box of nolva for 6 euro and clomid for 2 euros. its not about the money , i just fear them in big doses because im not sure for them toxicity

if i have to up the doses should i use anything for cleaning my system while on pct ? or clomid/nolva wont harm in this way ?

do i really need hcg for this cycle ? If i had to at any cost i think i might find pregnyl , will this do ?

thanks a lot man , i love ur thread but first 10 pages made my head spining arround. when i settle down with my own cycle il give it a full ready because it seems to be REALLY interesting 

just a lil help to finaly clear things in my mind


----------



## hackskii

Yah, that would work, don't get too aggressive on the AI, just enough to curb the sides.

Doses on the SERMS would be nolva for 4 at 20mg and you can run 3 weeks 100mg on the clomid then drop to 50mg for a week, you can run the nolva a week longer if you like.


----------



## n666

wow quick response my man! :thumb:

as for the ai is it ok to do e2d or should i start 12.5mg e3d ? i dont plan to up it so i like to know if its good to start e2d from day 1

so nolva 20/20/20/20mg clomid 100/100/100/50mg

why should i use nolva for a 5th week, does it makes big difference in recovery ?

as for pregnyl what dose do u recomend and how long / days?

thanks a lot !


----------



## hackskii

Low dose AI would be best, start out low, if sides appear, them move up.

500iu twice a week of hCG will keep testicular function making recovery much easier.


----------



## n666

hackskii said:


> Low dose AI would be best, start out low, if sides appear, them move up.
> 
> 500iu twice a week of hCG will keep testicular function making recovery much easier.


so for the ai il start it on day 1 (aromasin) @ 12.5 EOD and if i see any sides il up it to 25mg EOD

or its the best to start at 12.5mg E3D and in case of sides 12.5mg EOD ? because i heard so many opinions and im consern about its toxicity so il try keep the dose low

i got 25mg pills in hand so il cut them in two with a pharmacy pill cutter , is this ok or ...? (some people say yes some say no)

all these different opinions makes choises difficult and u seems to know a lot , thats why i ask ;P


----------



## n666

hackskii said:


> Low dose AI would be best, start out low, if sides appear, them move up.
> 
> 500iu twice a week of hCG will keep testicular function making recovery much easier.


thanks a lot. for some reason my posts was deleted .. dunno why , anyway , low dose ai could be arround 6.25mg and up it?

i didnt count it right so il have in hand one box of aromasin 25mg x 30 and for my 10 week cycle could be not enough

can i run it for two first weeks 6.25mg/day and then up it in case of signs ? dunno if its possible to get another box of aroma ...

edit : --

so i guess best thing is to have 2 x boxes of aromasin on hand before start (in case i need more and not able to find)

il start with 12.5ed and see how it gets since aromasin is short life (27 hours) and i like to keep it stable

i was confused with arimidex eod .. anyway

so il run my Ai from day 1 like this : aromasin 12.5mg ed and if i see gyno/bloat etc il up it to 25mg ed

il have 2 boxes of nolva plus clomid x 2 or 3 boxes because both are cheap and easy to get

and if i need to run nolva too with my ai it wont be a problem like nolva weakens arimidex etc

better have more than less i guess


----------



## hackskii

That may be too much to run that every day at that amount.


----------



## n666

sooo ... what can i do ? il cut pills of 25 in half with medical pill cutter

there is no way to get liquid etc , i allready got aromasin pills :/

should i start 12.5mg eod and in case of signs to make it ed ? .. is it better this way? i heard from a lot of people that aromasin life is short , is it ok to be eod ?..

thx a lot m8 , u made clear a lot of things till now :"p


----------



## hackskii

I personally don't like aromasin myself.


----------



## n666

well i choose it coz it can run with nolva in case i need it with no problem

i guess i wont need them but just in case ..

today it was my first pin ( right glutte) , my sister did it (shes nurse) and i didnt feel anything. Just a little ... like nothing some minutes after the pin . guess im lucky she have years experience

*So i have two problems now ,aromasin isnt able to be splitted ... for some reason its round and i cant cut it in two same pieces ... i ended up taking 25mg EOD ... *

*
i know i know its supposed to be ED but i guess with aroma killing estro it will take some time for them to build up so EOD could work as other people say*

*
And the other problem comes with pregnyl ...its 5000ui and i need to do 2 x 250ui , il start it as soon as im able because its only 2 amps , 1 with pregnyl and one amp with sterile water .. how to split 1ml to 20 doses .. xD... i guess i need to find sterile water + bottle tommorow with some insulin pins... *

But i want to find the perfect solution for this , should i try cut it in 2 even if pieces dont match and use it ED a piece ? (like split one pil on two and use it for 2 days , then another etc)

good thing i didnt buy 2 x aroma , i was about to do it because i ended up buying lot of stuff to use on my next cycle two like pct x 2 , everything else than Ai is cheap but im not sure it will be free to get like forever , so i stocked up 4 boxes clomid and 4 boxes nolva just in case heh


----------



## hackskii

Well, they do have pill grinders, and I do feel that 12.5 every day that it too high anyway.

hCG should be shot 500iu twice a week, to keep testicular function.

So, just add 1mg to the amp of hCG and pull 1/10th of that into 10 different pins, then toss all in the freezer till you need them.

Then just put the pin in your hand, warm it up, shoot then done.


----------



## n666

thx a lot!

il do this with hcg but cant i just do 250ui x 2/w and be ok ? i see a lot of people suggest this , is it need for 500x2? im afraid of aromatization , well.. i havent find the best protocol to use with that aromasin i have because pill grinder cant cut aromasin in two .. if i could i would do it and use 12.5mg eod for start , now i use 25mg eod ..

my aromasin isnt tablets .. its in this form
View attachment 164721
so how can i cut it ? ... should i use it 25mg E3D to make it lighter? .. i know its ED but people say it works eod too if u need weaker dose , but e3d dunno .. thing is i feel great but i dont know if i should keep it eod @ 25 .. damn .. it costs 60 euros and i cant even use it right.. i though it was tablets ..well until i open it ..

i was thinking if its possible to toss a 25mg pill in 400ml water bottle , mix it with normal water and drink everyday 100ml of that water ..wouldnt that be like 6,25mg?..

my head hurts (not because of aroma or whatever ....i cant find solution on this and makes me mad its like i wasted 60 euros and i will need to spend more now .. )


----------



## G-man99

n666 said:


> thx a lot!
> 
> il do this with hcg but cant i just do 250ui x 2/w and be ok ? i see a lot of people suggest this , is it need for 500x2? im afraid of aromatization , well.. i havent find the best protocol to use with that aromasin i have because pill grinder cant cut aromasin in two .. if i could i would do it and use 12.5mg eod for start , now i use 25mg eod ..
> 
> my aromasin isnt tablets .. its in this form
> View attachment 164721
> so how can i cut it ? ... should i use it 25mg E3D to make it lighter? .. i know its ED but people say it works eod too if u need weaker dose , but e3d dunno .. thing is i feel great but i dont know if i should keep it eod @ 25 .. damn .. it costs 60 euros and i cant even use it right.. i though it was tablets ..well until i open it ..
> 
> i was thinking if its possible to toss a 25mg pill in 400ml water bottle , mix it with normal water and drink everyday 100ml of that water ..wouldnt that be like 6,25mg?..
> 
> my head hurts (not because of aroma or whatever ....i cant find solution on this and makes me mad its like i wasted 60 euros and i will need to spend more now .. )


On 500mg Test you will most likely not need to use an AI anyway

Use hcg 2 x 500iu per week (I personally use 1 x 1000iu)

You have nolva on hand if gyno becomes apparent and then you can jump on the aromasin if needed.

Majority of people never used or even heard of AI's until fairly recently anyway.


----------



## n666

hmmm il try that man ,do i need 2x500/week ? a lot of people suggests 2 x 250 .. i hope it wont aromatize like hell xD...il try 500 x 2 then

im using ai from start to avoid getting gyno/bloat etc , i heard prevention is better than cure .. a lot of people suggest it .. but i could drop it to 25mg e3d ?.. would that work to keep estro low ?

i dont like to take my chances to need to use nolva in cycle because its toxic and if i need to use it like second week to pct then i think its better to use ai from the beggining .. dunno , im confused .. maybe i could drop ai right now and see how it gets .. but with hcg in cycle dunno ...


----------



## hackskii

n666 said:


> hmmm il try that man ,do i need 2x500/week ? a lot of people suggests 2 x 250 .. i hope it wont aromatize like hell xD...il try 500 x 2 then
> 
> im using ai from start to avoid getting gyno/bloat etc , i heard prevention is better than cure .. a lot of people suggest it .. but i could drop it to 25mg e3d ?.. would that work to keep estro low ?
> 
> i dont like to take my chances to need to use nolva in cycle because its toxic and if i need to use it like second week to pct then i think its better to use ai from the beggining .. dunno , im confused .. maybe i could drop ai right now and see how it gets .. but with hcg in cycle dunno ...


Why ask questions from me, then say someone else suggests something else?

Why should I bother helping you when others give you bad advice?

I said 500iu twice a week for a reason, I don't need to post studies backing up my information just because someone else says so, testicular function is achieved at 93% using this method, if you choose to use less than do it, but you wont keep testicular function at half that amount.

But go ahead, sabotage your recovery, then come get me when you have problems.


----------



## DaveCW

n666 said:


> hmmm il try that man ,do i need 2x500/week ? a lot of people suggests 2 x 250 .. i hope it wont aromatize like hell xD...il try 500 x 2 then
> 
> im using ai from start to avoid getting gyno/bloat etc , i heard prevention is better than cure .. a lot of people suggest it .. but i could drop it to 25mg e3d ?.. would that work to keep estro low ?
> 
> i dont like to take my chances to need to use nolva in cycle because its toxic and if i need to use it like second week to pct then i think its better to use ai from the beggining .. dunno , im confused .. maybe i could drop ai right now and see how it gets .. but with hcg in cycle dunno ...


500iu x 2 pw

simples.


----------



## n666

hackskii said:


> Why ask questions from me, then say someone else suggests something else?
> 
> Why should I bother helping you when others give you bad advice?
> 
> I said 500iu twice a week for a reason, I don't need to post studies backing up my information just because someone else says so, testicular function is achieved at 93% using this method, if you choose to use less than do it, but you wont keep testicular function at half that amount.
> 
> But go ahead, sabotage your recovery, then come get me when you have problems.


ooooh dont get me wrong , my english are not the best so i poorly described what im trying to say and im giving the wrong impression 

i didnt ask for studies , im just explaining how i think of what i was think to do to give a reason so i can get some answers back why i shouldnt do that and at the end i will have understand why we do THAT. Threads are so many and people say different things with doses come up and down as standards .. Its better than waiting an answer to ask for learning about it .. im trying to learn why we use anything and why at those doses so next time im able to do it alone without help , knowledge is something important to me along with gainz ;P

anyways thx a lot , i already did what u suggested and for some reason my ... went up like a flag suddenly within minutes ...i guess thats ok :thumb:


----------



## Seedo

my testicles removed due to cancer 14 years ago do i need PCT as well after my roids cycle?

Regards


----------



## hackskii

Seedo said:


> my testicles removed due to cancer 14 years ago do i need PCT as well after my roids cycle?
> 
> Regards


No, TRT


----------



## Mogadishu

Is powerpct a good option if someone skipped PCT and went cold-turkey and then after 7 weeks feels like **** with small balls, low libido and no sperm production? Dbol only cycle.


----------



## hackskii

Judesvinet said:


> Is powerpct a good option if someone skipped PCT and went cold-turkey and then after 7 weeks feels like **** with small balls, low libido and no sperm production? Dbol only cycle.


Probably not, but bloods would tell you which way to go.

Other factors too like how long on, what compounds, etc.


----------



## Mogadishu

hackskii said:


> Probably not, but bloods would tell you which way to go.
> 
> Other factors too like how long on, what compounds, etc.


60 mg for 60 days, no bloodwork, no pct, no hcg. Just feeling like **** and wants to throw himself out of the eiffel tower. Its a bit complicated to get bloodtests in our country if you dont have a valid reason and steroids arent. What would you suggest as the first step before he can get a bloodtest? Just nolva for 4-6 weeks?


----------



## Seedo

Judesvinet said:


> 60 mg for 60 days, no bloodwork, no pct, no hcg. Just feeling like **** and wants to throw himself out of the eiffel tower. Its a bit complicated to get bloodtests in our country if you dont have a valid reason and steroids arent. What would you suggest as the first step before he can get a bloodtest? Just nolva for 4-6 weeks?


Signs of depression? i geuss


----------



## hackskii

100mg clomid for 2 weeks, then 50mg for 2 weeks.


----------



## DoI

Hi All,

Would you be so kind as to confirm this is the correct PCT for a 11 weeks Test E cycle at 500mg once per week, used adex 0.5 two times PW for Estro control.

(I have taken HCG 1000 Iu in 1 shot once per week from week 2 of test)

Leave 3 weeks for test to clear

Clomid 100/100/50/50

Novla 20/20/20/20

Should I keep taking the HCG in the clearance period or stop on the last shot of test?

Also been told to eat well above maintenance to try & preserve muscle gains? This correct?

Any help hugely appreciated.


----------



## hackskii

I would use the hCG at 500u twice a week, and keep that in during clearance time of gear, and all the rest is fine.


----------



## DoI

Many thanks hackskii, Appreciate all the time & effort you put in to help people here.


----------



## meandmyself

hackskii please can you help me out here, i ran test e for 6 weeks at 400mg pw. i used an ai on cycle at 0.25. i had to cut cycle short. I've started PCT after 6 weeks. 10 days after last shot i started 100mg clomid 40mg nolva. maybe this was too early?? i'm onto the 17th day now after last shot, i wondered what is your recommend plan to continue here and how long for? i also have some HGC should i use this? i'm 36 years old. appreciate any guidance. cheers.


----------



## hackskii

3 weeks or a tad bit longer start your SERMS as you suggested, but for 6 weeks, probably need to do nothing.


----------



## raja16

@ hackskii sir,

If one is using aromasin during cycle , is it a good idea to continue it through pct ?


----------



## hackskii

It wont be needed.


----------



## raja16

hackskii said:


> It wont be needed.


Thanx sir .

I have another question

What if someone is using tren E or parabolan ( tren H ) which is long ester when you suggest to implement the pct ? And you think caber or prami must be continued in pct to avoid any prolactin rise or rebound ?


----------



## hackskii

Nothing else will be needed.


----------



## raja16

hackskii said:


> Nothing else will be needed.


Sorry but I dint understand , do you mean prami or caber is not needed in pct ? And when shall the pct start after 3 weeks from the last shot of tren H ?


----------



## hackskii

Neither pram, nor caber is needed during PCT.

Depends on the ester.


----------



## hackskii

Neither pram, nor caber is needed during PCT.

Depends on the ester, and amount, hex is only one carbon atom less than enanthate, so just a bit shorter ester, the amount would suggest how long till you do your PCT.


----------



## Mogadishu

Hey man thanx for an awesome thread. Ive got a problem, two of my friends tells me that PCT is waste of time and there is no difference to cold turkey. They have done both and says they didnt feel any difference. What should I tell them? Ive linked them some info but they just laugh and tells me that there is no reason to use nolva, clomid etc because of the side-effects and obviously no difference(????).


----------



## hackskii

Judesvinet said:


> Hey man thanx for an awesome thread. Ive got a problem, two of my friends tells me that PCT is waste of time and there is no difference to cold turkey. They have done both and says they didnt feel any difference. What should I tell them? Ive linked them some info but they just laugh and tells me that there is no reason to use nolva, clomid etc because of the side-effects and obviously no difference(????).


Your friends are mistaken, the single most PM's, and e-mail's to me is for guys that have crashed.

If your friends got on lets say a long deca cycle, they probably would crash hard, and cry like little girls.


----------



## Thomasfreddy

I've heard lots of guys getting emotional

On 100 mg clomid


----------



## streapadair

This is a great thread! Just want to get something totally straight in my head though. I'm planning a 12 week test e cycle (500mg) running HCG from week 2 at 1000iu per week. Is it correct to say that I would continue to run the 1000iu PW HCG after the last Test jab until PCT begins (2 or 3 weeks after last jab?), and then do 4 jabs (8 days) of 1000iu EOD when i start PCT? PCT would be 2 weeks of Nolva @ 40mg then 1 week @ 20mg.


----------



## hackskii

Thomasfreddy said:


> I've heard lots of guys getting emotional
> 
> On 100 mg clomid


Depends on the person, I do well on it.


----------



## rosed4179

Hi Scott

Im thinking of running the Fuerza Labs Super Rip 240 and am wondering what would be a good PCT to go with?

Thanks in advance


----------



## ptirobo69

Great post, Im reading lots of info ATM as im keen to start my first cycle and this has really helped to make the PCT process clear !! Nice one


----------



## ptirobo69

Mogadishu said:


> Hey man thanx for an awesome thread. Ive got a problem, two of my friends tells me that PCT is waste of time and there is no difference to cold turkey. They have done both and says they didnt feel any difference. What should I tell them? Ive linked them some info but they just laugh and tells me that there is no reason to use nolva, clomid etc because of the side-effects and obviously no difference(????).


IM looking at starting my first cycle and for the 1000s of people that cycle there must only be a handful that ignore PCT ...


----------



## hackskii

Using hCG during a cycle is the single best thing a guy can do to keep testicular function, this will make recovery easier.


----------



## x_inferno

hackskii said:


> Using hCG during a cycle is the single best thing a guy can do to keep testicular function, this will make recovery easier.


Hi hackskii, what would you consider the optimal method of running hCG when dosing test prop @ 50mg E/D for 6-8 weeks?

Would it be 2x500iu weekly, as suggested in the sticky by Mars?

Initially, I was just going to do test prop 50mg e/d, with 1mg Adex a day (cut back to 0.5 e/d if I crush E; if that still crushes, 0.25 ED; if that still crushes, 0.25 EOD)

However, I'd like to keep my balls for numerous reasons, so considering hCG.

Thank you


----------



## hackskii

500iu twice a week throughout.


----------



## Mogadishu

Any scientific evidence for frontload of 160mg nolvadex day 1?(gyno protocol aswell)


----------



## hackskii

Mogadishu said:


> Any scientific evidence for frontload of 160mg nolvadex day 1?(gyno protocol aswell)


Never even heard of that one before, nor anyone doing that.


----------



## petey1

Hacksii what's the best thing to do if you did a cycle without HCG?

I'm about to take my last jab of a 10 week Test E 500mg cycle. I only used 500iu/Week of HCG from week 6.

I'm currently planning to blast HCG 2000iu/EOD up until PCT where I'll then move to the usual 50/50/50/50 Clomid 20/20/20/20 Nolva.

Does this sound like a good idea?

Should I wait for the Test E to clear before jumping on the HCG?


----------



## hackskii

You can do it now, just take 20mg nolva with you and shoot for every 3 days, wait 3 weeks then start your PCT.


----------



## Neverbackdown20

Hello Hackskii

I come from a other country, so i try to explain it all in english.. I would be very glade for help.

I have been very foolish. With the age of 19 did I do steroids ( a winstrol only cycle for 6 weeks) .

I had an amazing sex drive, many times sex (every da)y and even with different woman. But after ehm 1 week I think, did my sex drive go away. I did not have the need for sex anymore and my erection were very bad.

The top were smaller in form and everything could bow easily (not having a full erection). If I came, couldn't I get him back up again as usual. This stayed after the PCT also.

Week 1-6 Winstrol 50 mg/ed

Week 7-8 Nolvadex 20 mg/ed

26 mei 2014/26-05-2014 started winstrol

6 juli 2014/06-07-2014 ending winstrol

09-07-2014 tot 22-07-2014 PCT with nolvadex

results blood from the doctor:

* 22-09-2014

testosteron 21.1

* 30.09.2014

C-reactive protein (c..) <0.3 normaal 0.0/7.5

hemoglobine (Hb) 9 normaal 8.5/11.0

hematocriet (Ht) 0.43 normaal 0.4/0.5

M.C.V 84 normaal 80.0/100.0

M.C.H.C 21 normaal 19.0/23.0

Leukocyten 7.3 normaal 4.0/10.0

Neutrofielen 3.4 normaal 1.5/7.5

Lymfocyten 3.1 normaal 1.0/3.5

Monocyten 0.7 normaal 0.1/1.0

Eosinofiele granulocyt.. 0.1 normaal 0.1/0.5

Basofiele granulocyte.. 0 normaal 0.0/0.2

Trombocyten 178 normaal 150.0/400.0

glucose nuchter 5.1 normaal 4.0/5.9

cholesterol totaal 3.2 normaal 3.5/5.0

HDL-Cholesterol 1.15 normaal 0.7/1.75

LDL-Cholesterol 1.7 normaal 0.0/3.1

triglyceriden 0.87 normaal 0.34/1.4

Cholesterol/HDL-chol.. 2.8 normaal 0.0/3.0

thyroid stimulerend h.. 3 normaal 0.3/4.5

Erytrocyten 5.2 normaal 4.5/5.5

I would get a apointment 2014 11.40 23 octob (23-10-2014) with a doctor that could help me from far. But I got a letter that it had to be a few weeks later.

I couldn't wait longer, my libido and erection killed my feeling and I started cycling again. What were foolish.

I don't want to cycle anymore and want to be the boy that I were. It destroys everything for me this way..

week 1-15 testosteron enanthaat 500mg elke week

week 1-13 trenbolone enanthaat 300mg elke week, week 13 400 mg

week 17-22 nolvadex (tamoxifen) 20mg elke dag

30 november 2014/30-11-2015 started with met test en tren

7 maart 2015 /07-03-2015 started with test en tren

21 maart 2015 started with nolvadex

25 april 2015 going to stop with nolvadex

My sex drive were better in the cycle but my erections stayed ****ed up. Now after the cycle is my Libido gone again. I can't even have sex with my girlfriend. I have an erectel disfunction.

I had to take HCG moeten (500iu every 3 day) for my balls and test but i didn't

I don't know what to do now.. please help me

I want to be full in function again..


----------



## hackskii

Did you use hCG during your cycle?

How much hCD did you use total in iu?


----------



## Mogadishu

@hackskii sorry for asking but why are there so many big guys on this board who trained for ages that diss PCT and call it unnecessary use of meds?


----------



## hackskii

Mogadishu said:


> @hackskii sorry for asking but why are there so many big guys on this board who trained for ages that diss PCT and call it unnecessary use of meds?


They only do that as they are on forever, once they come off, they are quick to reverse their words, or they only have an opinion on something they have no knowledge of.


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> They only do that as they are on forever, once they come off, they are quick to reverse their words, or they only have an opinion on something they have no knowledge of.


No, not at all, I was on for three years straight from 93-96, came off no issues at all.

There was a thread on the General Conversation section about PCT which was removed for some reason, hope it wasnt due to the fact that many people on their were saying it wasnt required.


----------



## hackskii

banzi said:


> No, not at all, I was on for three years straight from 93-96, came off no issues at all.
> 
> There was a thread on the General Conversation section about PCT which was removed for some reason, hope it wasnt due to the fact that many people on their were saying it wasnt required.


You were one of the lucky ones, some men crash hard, cry like girls, and even some are suicidal.

There is plenty of evidence that the meds do what they are supposed to do, no disputing that, guys can have an opinion on anything, but some of the guys that say that, never came off.

The fact this thread has 93 pages says enough, some men in fact do need help with recovery.

Everyone has an opinion, I could say everyone loves chocolate, but that is not truth, just an opinion, and you are free to have one too.

So, just like saying everyone loves chocolate, would be the same as PCT is not necessary.


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> You were one of the lucky ones, some men crash hard, cry like girls, and even some are suicidal.
> 
> There is plenty of evidence that the meds do what they are supposed to do, no disputing that, guys can have an opinion on anything, but some of the guys that say that, never came off.
> 
> The fact this thread has 93 pages says enough, some men in fact do need help with recovery.
> 
> Everyone has an opinion, I could say everyone loves chocolate, but that is not truth, just an opinion, and you are free to have one too.
> 
> So, just like saying everyone loves chocolate, would be the same as PCT is not necessary.


93 pages of people saying positive things about PCT

Amazing,

anyone says its a waste of time and their thread gets removed.

Its like there might be an agenda.


----------



## TommyBananas

When I have been to all the steroid clinics in the UK - they ALL advise *against* doing PCT. Only now and again they'll say have things on hand for gyno/estro rebound.


----------



## banzi

TommyBananas said:


> When I have been to all the steroid clinics in the UK - they ALL advise *against* doing PCT. Only now and again they'll say have things on hand for gyno/estro rebound.


Yep, the advice is get yourself clean and get your body working normally on its own

PCT isnt natural, its still a foreign substance doing what your body should be doing on its own.


----------



## TommyBananas

banzi said:


> Yep, the advice is get yourself clean and get your body working normally on its own
> 
> PCT isnt natural, its still a foreign substance doing what your body should be doing on its own.


I believe what they said to me was using PCT will only make your hormones go even whackier and not level yourself out (this is off memory, could be incorrect). Rather than just going through it smoothly and recovering properly.


----------



## hackskii

banzi said:


> 93 pages of people saying positive things about PCT
> 
> Amazing,
> 
> anyone says its a waste of time and their thread gets removed.
> 
> Its like there might be an agenda.


There is no agenda it is just hard to argue opinion, vs logic.



banzi said:


> Yep, the advice is get yourself clean and get your body working normally on its own
> 
> PCT isnt natural, its still a foreign substance doing what your body should be doing on its own.


Yah, and steroids are natural too, like many of the hormones that are never made in the mans body, and I can think of many of them that are not naturally occurring hormones in men.

Yah, good on you for clearing that one up...lol



TommyBananas said:


> I believe what they said to me was using PCT will only make your hormones go even whackier and not level yourself out (this is off memory, could be incorrect). Rather than just going through it smoothly and recovering properly.


That is not true actually, and the person that told you does not have a clue of what they speak of.

You know there are doctors that do in fact treat men that have Anabolic Induced Steroid Hypogonadism (AISH), it is a condition, and is treatable.


----------



## TommyBananas

"(this is off memory, could be incorrect)."


----------



## hackskii

TommyBananas said:


> "(this is off memory, could be incorrect)."


Yah, could be. :lol:


----------



## hackskii

This thread is not to argue about if it is needed or not, this thread is to inform one that may want to go down this path, most blast and cruise guys never come off, so their opinion holds little value IMO.

So, lets keep this thread for what it is used for, and that would be to inform, not debate weather or not it is needed as clearly for some it is.


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> There is no agenda it is just hard to argue opinion, vs logic.
> 
> *Yah, and steroids are natural too, like many of the hormones that are never made in the mans body, and I can think of many of them that are not naturally occurring hormones in men.*
> 
> *
> Yah, good on you for clearing that one up...lol*
> 
> That is not true actually, and the person that told you does not have a clue of what they speak of.
> 
> You know there are doctors that do in fact treat men that have Anabolic Induced Steroid Hypogonadism (AISH), it is a condition, and is treatable.


You either missed the point or are validating my point, I cant tell which.


----------



## banzi

hackskii said:


> This thread is not to argue about if it is needed or not, this thread is to inform one that may want to go down this path, most blast and cruise guys never come off, so their opinion holds little value IMO.
> 
> So, lets keep this thread for what it is used for, and that would be to inform, not debate weather or not it is needed as clearly for some it is.


Great as long as there is a balanced debate and discussion and people like me are allowed to say its a waste of time and especially money.

Jeez, its like the guys on Steroidology asking guys to get bloods done before they can advise them on taking 6 tabs of DBol.

You would think gym rats were preparing for the Olympia


----------



## hackskii

banzi said:


> Great as long as there is a balanced debate and discussion and people like me are allowed to say its a waste of time and especially money.
> 
> Jeez, its like the guys on Steroidology asking guys to get bloods done before they can advise them on taking 6 tabs of DBol.
> 
> You would think gym rats were preparing for the Olympia


Start your own thread if you want a debate and tag me, I will bit on that one, come prepared to defend your position using some logic instead of emotion.


----------



## darkshadow

Guys can one cycle of say var or tbol only with proper pct actually cause any permanent damage to your hpta


----------



## hackskii

darkshadow said:


> Guys can one cycle of say var or tbol only with proper pct actually cause any permanent damage to your hpta


No, but that is not a cycle I would want to take.


----------



## darkshadow

hackskii said:


> No, but that is not a cycle I would want to take.


Is it due to the lack of a test Base?


----------



## hackskii

darkshadow said:


> Is it due to the lack of a test Base?


Yah, and then you will have low estrogen as well, and depending on what oral, low DHT.


----------



## darkshadow

hackskii said:


> Yah, and then you will have low estrogen as well, and depending on what oral, low DHT.


Hmm i get you but just to clarify in general one cycle with proper pct does not result in permanent damage to hpta, how does aage fit into this situation? Like teens say will hace have a harder time recovering as opposed to a 30yr old because their hpta is fully matured?


----------



## hackskii

As a teenager one should not really touch steroids.


----------



## darkshadow

hackskii said:


> As a teenager one should not really touch steroids.


I agree with you there teens need to worry about eating right and training hard,however could even one cycle with with proper pct could cause Permanent damage to a teens hpta?


----------



## hackskii

darkshadow said:


> I agree with you there teens need to worry about eating right and training hard,however could even one cycle with with proper pct could cause Permanent damage to a teens hpta?


What I am saying is teens should not use gear.

Only answer I am going to give.


----------



## michaelemeel1

Hackskii

So pct don't give you results that you seeking to

Or that your erections don't back like before


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## hackskii

michaelemeel1 said:


> Hackskii
> 
> So pct don't give you results that you seeking to
> 
> Or that your erections don't back like before


I don't understand the question.


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## michaelemeel1

That you get a result from pct or not???

That I mean you have erection or no


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## banzi

hackskii said:


> What I am saying is teens should not use gear.
> 
> Only answer I am going to give.


Shawn Ray, Lee Haney, Rich Gaspari Lee Labrada all used drugs as teens.

All still OK and in good health.


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## hackskii

banzi said:


> Shawn Ray, Lee Haney, Rich Gaspari Lee Labrada all used drugs as teens.
> 
> All still OK and in good health.


How do you know they used steroids in their teens?

No way back then they admitted to gear use.

I know people that smoked their whole life yet died of natural causes, can't say that is a good reason to pick up smoking.

Many pro's are dead.

I have never heard of one person advocating teen steroid use but just one person, you.

Next time a teen asks for help, I will send them your way as clearly you are a pillar of missinformation.


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## banzi

hackskii said:


> How do you know they used steroids in their teens?
> 
> No way back then they admitted to gear use.
> 
> I know people that smoked their whole life yet died of natural causes, can't say that is a good reason to pick up smoking.
> 
> Many pro's are dead.
> 
> I have never heard of one person advocating teen steroid use but just one person, you.
> 
> Next time a teen asks for help, I will send them your way as clearly you are a pillar of missinformation.


Can you find a post of me advocating it please.


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## hackskii

banzi said:


> Can you find a post of me advocating it please.


You inferred, I stated I never condone steroids use in teens, then you quoted me using professionals that seem to be healthy, not fully knowing if they used as teens, but supported your statement.

Last thing I would like to see is a teen saying dang, big dudes did it, so can I.

I am trying to defer these kids, you clearly are not.

Bad advice yet again.

You act like a troll, speak in condescending tones, think you are smart, yet in a debate get owned, then cry when you call foul.

This is a sticky on PCT, I asked you before on more than on occasion to not post on the sticky, both PM, and public, but your adolescents just won't allow you to do it, that and your ego.


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## banzi

hackskii said:


> You inferred, I stated I never condone steroids use in teens, then you quoted me using professionals that seem to be healthy, not fully knowing if they used as teens, but supported your statement.
> 
> Last thing I would like to see is a teen saying dang, big dudes did it, so can I.
> 
> I am trying to defer these kids, you clearly are not.
> 
> Bad advice yet again.
> 
> You act like a troll, speak in condescending tones, think you are smart, yet in a debate get owned, then cry when you call foul.
> 
> This is a sticky on PCT, I asked you before on more than on occasion to not post on the sticky, both PM, and public, but your adolescents just won't allow you to do it, that and your ego.


was that you just saying you couldn't find a post of me advocating steroids?

Its a thread, people can post in threads, your previous posts were discussing steroid use not PCT.

Grow up , you dont own the thread.


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## timbear84

This is turning into a one up man ship thread. That isnt the point of this thread. Start a new one banzi if u wanna argue


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## michaelemeel1

Hey

Banzi I don't own the thread but iam asked who but the post. Not you

And if you have a good answer please post it

;-)


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## Mogadishu

@banzi have you seen there medical records? Just because they are alive doesnt mean everything is alright


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## Jdd76

Hi had my last jab of deca 300 & test 400 last Tuesday at what point should I start pct

Pct is hcg novadex clomid but not sure how much to mix in hcg & how much to take in 1 shot & how long for ?


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## hackskii

Jdd76 said:


> Hi had my last jab of deca 300 & test 400 last Tuesday at what point should I start pct
> 
> Pct is hcg novadex clomid but not sure how much to mix in hcg & how much to take in 1 shot & how long for ?


3 weeks from last jab, and you probably can do the hCG right now while it clears.

Shoot 2000iu every 3 days, till you start your PCT.

20mg nolva while doing this and in PCT.

5000iu vitamin D every day.

Once you stop the hCG and keep the nolva in for a month longer, and run clomid at 100mg for the first week, then 50mg for another few weeks.

You can taper those at the end if you like, you will have to go by feel some though.


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## Desohigh

Hello, I'm having problems while preparing my PCT plan;

I'm planning to use Test propionate & masteron for 8weeks starting in June. It will be my first cycle. (I'm doing bb for 8years)

I want a fast recovery so I read that everyone uses HCG during cycle for this.

So propionate is a short ester, when should I start to pin HCG?? Directly from week1? Or should I wait and see how I got reactions from propionate?

When the cycle finishes, when should I start PCT? 3 days after last pin??

Also in PCT, should I use HCG too??

Or 8weeks is short should I skip HCG in cycle and use it afterwards?

Sorry for a lot of questions because I searched a lot of sites and there's too many different ways for PCT and it makes me confused a lot.


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## hackskii

Start the hCG week 2 at 500iu twice a week, run that to the end, and last shot start your PCT 3 days later, and that 3rd day you can do some hCG if you like, then start the SERMS day 3 after last jab.

I would also run vitamin D at 5000iu throughout your cycle as well.


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## timbear84

hackskii said:


> Start the hCG week 2 at 500iu twice a week, run that to the end, and last shot start your PCT 3 days later, and that 3rd day you can do some hCG if you like, then start the SERMS day 3 after last jab.
> 
> I would also run vitamin D at 5000iu throughout your cycle as well.


Whats the best way to get 5000iu of vit d?


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## hackskii

Buy it at a store it is D3.


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## Desohigh

hackskii said:


> Start the hCG week 2 at 500iu twice a week, run that to the end, and last shot start your PCT 3 days later, and that 3rd day you can do some hCG if you like, then start the SERMS day 3 after last jab.
> 
> I would also run vitamin D at 5000iu throughout your cycle as well.


Thank you very much!!

After my last shot, 3 days later, how many iu should I shot HCG for the last time? should I abstain 500iu for last dose?

Then I should use;

Clomid 100/50/50/50 ED for 30days

Nolva 40/20/20/20 ED for 30days

Should 4 weeks enough?


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## hackskii

That should be fine.


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## Boris Bollokov

Hi Hackskii,

Running my first cycle:

> Test-E E3D 250mg - 10 weeks

>Anavar ED 50mg - 6 weeks

PCT based on you previous post:

> HCG E3D 500iu - week 2 to week 10 (this Swale protocol right?)

> D3 ED - 5000iu - week 1 to week 10

I have 60x20MG tamoxifen. After last Test-E shot when should start taking the SERM? Should it be 3 days after? Llewellyn says in his book start after the half-life of the ester clears. For 500mg of Test E he sates around 10-14 days. But then again he uses Scally's PCT protocol and does 2500iu shots from day one of PCT. So I am not sure.

Also do you think taking Arimidex AI during the cycle is necessary for better recovery, or only use if getting itchy nips?

Thanks,

Boris


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## hackskii

If you take the hCG during you won't need it in the PCT.

250mg shot would be around 14-16 days to start PCT, keep the hCG and drop it once you start the SERM's


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## Boris Bollokov

Thanks Hackskii,

Just to confirm. I will continue to run HCG after last shot during the 14-16 half-life period?


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## hackskii

Boris Bollokov said:


> Thanks Hackskii,
> 
> Just to confirm. I will continue to run HCG after last shot during the 14-16 half-life period?


Correct.


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## Desohigh

Hackskii really appreciate what you are doing here.

My partner asks a question (it's his second cycle)

He doesn't have any experience with tren. That's why he wanted to dose 150mg/week (50/mg EOD both tren and prop)

He wants to taper up the dosage of tren every 2 weeks if he can handle the sides;

w2:150

w4: 225

w6: 300

w8: 300

and finish.

He's like me (frustrated of shrink of balls) so he had always done HCG during cycle, he said it's a must for him.

Anyway prop dose is 150mg till the end of 8weeks.

AI - 0,5mg Arimidex EOD

For prolactin issues - caber/prami 0,5mg E3D

HCG - 500iu x2 E4D (till last AAS pin)

For PCT;

(3 days after last injection)

Clomid 100/100/50/50 (50mgx2)

Nolvadex 20/20/20/20

How does it sounds??


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## hackskii

Sounds fine, but it it was me, I would run just a bit more gear.


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## Desohigh

Maybe it's better to increase tren every week?

Or higher test? What should I recommend to him?


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## hackskii

500 test 200 tren


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## GymClassHero

hackskii said:


> Understanding PCT
> 
> PCT, what does it mean?
> 
> Post Cycle Therapy.
> 
> What does it do?
> 
> It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
> 
> How long does it last?
> 
> Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
> 
> Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
> 
> So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
> 
> Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
> 
> The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
> 
> Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
> 
> So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
> 
> OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
> 
> This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
> 
> I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
> 
> So, what can you do?
> 
> First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
> 
> It basically is pregnant woman's urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
> 
> The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don't recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
> 
> The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
> 
> If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
> 
> One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
> 
> HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
> 
> Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
> 
> How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
> 
> It occupy's the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It's like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
> 
> Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
> 
> Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
> 
> Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
> 
> What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see's this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
> 
> Ok, so lets put this all together.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can do this.
> 
> First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
> 
> Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
> 
> That's pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
> 
> So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
> 
> You don't have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
> 
> By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
> 
> I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
> 
> I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
> 
> I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
> 
> So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
> 
> Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
> 
> Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
> 
> I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
> 
> If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
> 
> Cheers.


Hi Hackskii,

I'm new to the forum, I've read all of your stickies but I'm a little confused with sone contradictory information across threads. If you could take the time to review this PCT I've put together I'd be very grateful.

Weeks 1-10 Test E (500mg/wk)

Weeks 12-14 Vitamin D3 (5000iu/day), HCG (2000iu E3D), Nolva (20mg/day)

Weeks 14-18 Vitamin D3 (5000iu/day), HCG (2000iu E3D until 10 shots are done) Clomid (100/50/50/25)

I'm a bit confused about the HCG and Clomid usage... In the sticky it says to use together but in other threads to wait until HCG usage is complete.

Thanks for your time.


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## hackskii

GymClassHero said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> I'm new to the forum, I've read all of your stickies but I'm a little confused with sone contradictory information across threads. If you could take the time to review this PCT I've put together I'd be very grateful.
> 
> Weeks 1-10 Test E (500mg/wk)
> 
> Weeks 12-14 Vitamin D3 (5000iu/day), HCG (2000iu E3D), Nolva (20mg/day)
> 
> Weeks 14-18 Vitamin D3 (5000iu/day), HCG (2000iu E3D until 10 shots are done) Clomid (100/50/50/25)
> 
> I'm a bit confused about the HCG and Clomid usage... In the sticky it says to use together but in other threads to wait until HCG usage is complete.
> 
> Thanks for your time.


Run the hCG during your cycle, at 500iu twice a week, run that till you start your PCT.

3 weeks after last jab start your SERM's and drop the hCG.


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## GymClassHero

hackskii said:


> Run the hCG during your cycle, at 500iu twice a week, run that till you start your PCT.
> 
> 3 weeks after last jab start your SERM's and drop the hCG.


Thanks alot Hackskii. I don't want to come across as an idiot who doesn't know what they are doing, I've done countless hours of research but your knowledge in this field us 2nd to none.

Many thanks again.


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## anonymous19

This is my first cycle and this is based on friends knowledge and many many hours of research, is the PCT suitable in your opinion?


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## hackskii

I take it you are going to run the hCG till the start of your PCT?

20mg is enough of nolva, could move the clomid to 100 first week.


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## anonymous19

So keep 500ui a week of HCG till PCT?

Keep nolva at 20mg from day 1?

and change the 70 clomid to 100 the first week then 50?

Is the aromasin ok at 12.5 ED, or should I tweak it if I see signs of gyno?

Sorry for all the questions just wanting to make sure it's done right.

EDITED: Been advised to cut out the HCG altogether and switch the aromasin for armidex since that's what my friend has always done and it worked...


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## anonymous19

changing it to this... Jag the test on monday then deca on thursday with 0.5 armidex a day?


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## hackskii

anonymous19 said:


> So keep 500ui a week of HCG till PCT?
> 
> Keep nolva at 20mg from day 1?
> 
> and change the 70 clomid to 100 the first week then 50?
> 
> Is the aromasin ok at 12.5 ED, or should I tweak it if I see signs of gyno?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions just wanting to make sure it's done right.
> 
> EDITED: Been advised to cut out the HCG altogether and switch the aromasin for armidex since that's what my friend has always done and it worked...


500iu a week??

Where did that come from?


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## anonymous19

0.5 gram, but was just going to cut it out altogether and replace aromasin with armidex


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## Tuscan74

I will be running my first ever course and looking for a bit of steer on HCG/PCT, apologies if I miss anything out....

41yrs old, 195lbs, 18% body fat

8 week cycle of 250 mg Test Prop p/w (taken in 2 125 mg shots) and 50mg Anavar p/d, I know to most these doses seem low but I am 41 :whistling:

considering running arimidex during the cycle..... thoughts?

would you recommend running HCG during the course?

PCT will be Clomid 50g p/d & Nolva 20g p/d

Any help or advice greatly appreciated.... and NO OLD JOKES!!! :laugh:


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## Warrior87

banzi said:


> was that you just saying you couldn't find a post of me advocating steroids?
> 
> Its a thread, people can post in threads, your previous posts were discussing steroid use not PCT.
> 
> Grow up , you dont own the thread.


#idiot

Non educated internet troll on 25k a year lol


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## FelonE1

Warrior87 said:


> #idiot
> 
> Non educated internet troll on 25k a year lol


#sellout

Thinks criminals are scum yet will defend them in court for money


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## Tuscan74

bump :whistling:



Tuscan74 said:


> I will be running my first ever course and looking for a bit of steer on HCG/PCT, apologies if I miss anything out....
> 
> 41yrs old, 195lbs, 18% body fat
> 
> 8 week cycle of 250 mg Test Prop p/w (taken in 2 125 mg shots) and 50mg Anavar p/d, I know to most these doses seem low but I am 41 :whistling:
> 
> considering running arimidex during the cycle..... thoughts?
> 
> would you recommend running HCG during the course?
> 
> PCT will be Clomid 50g p/d & Nolva 20g p/d
> 
> Any help or advice greatly appreciated.... and NO OLD JOKES!!! :laugh:


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## telewacker

I hope this thread is still active. I'm finishing up my first cycle of 500mg test cyp per week 1-12 and 40 MG Anavar ED weeks 9-12. I am pretty sensitive to Adex I guess as I felt pretty bad at 1mg EOD so I stopped taking it for a while. My estradiol got pretty high, my only symtoms were tender nips. I finally settled in at .25 MG ED and that seemed to work as E came back within normal range. I've been taking 500iu HCG for the last 4 weeks (last test jab is tomorrow) and have 5000iu HCG on hand and another 15000 on the way. Plenty of Clomid and Nolva. My natty test was 917 before cycle and I'm in my 50s.

What would you recommend for my PCT?


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