# Chicken Kebabs - unhealthy....



## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

Just a thought - I am looking for something quick to eat tonight and me and a mate were talking junk food.

I don't want a pizza or any of that malarky but a chicken kebab would hit the spot.

I'm not talking that chicking turning around on the stick like a doner, im talking chicking breast in a pitta with some salad.

Just wondered why these were so bad for you? or are generally all kebabs brushed with the same paint as the lamb doner... :whistling:


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

They are not. Neither is pizza.

No food is really that bad for you. Unless your dieting you should have better things to worry about


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## mart revive (Aug 26, 2008)

martin brown said:


> They are not. Neither is pizza.
> 
> No food is really that bad for you. Unless your dieting you should have better things to worry about


I like this reply! Fook it im off to the chippy:beer:


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## dixie normus (May 11, 2008)

lamb or chicken shish kebabs are the shizzle.


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## -Jack- (Sep 28, 2009)

any thing can be ok. just don't have it every meal every day


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Think of food as what it is made of, chicken kebabs are usually grilled chicken, spices and bread. None of them should be excluded out of a normal diet.

Pizza is bread, cheese and tomato. None of those have any reason not to be eaten as part of a normal diet.

Just be aware of how things are cooked, ie if it's deep fried, soaked in oil, covered in peperoni, these will all make things go from an acceptable balanced meal to an unacceptable one.

And make sure your overall food intake is ok and you'll be fine. Most people would get alot bigger if they are more 'normal' foods 

M


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

I've cut out anything anyone ever considered 'bad', no pizza, nothing at all ever from a chipshop. I eat no sweets, no burgers unless homemade with good meat etc. I know it will make barely any difference but it's just the feel good factor.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Martin makes a great post. The only things I really consider bad are things which combine trans fats/ heat damaged fats with simple sugars. So most confectionery isn't gonna be ideal for body comp, but on the other hand even if you eat a moderate amount I can't see it negatively affecting your health if other factors are sorted.

Good call on the pizza too martin. It's only when they're dripping in grease that I'm a bit turned off from them and that's usually the result of pepperoni on it...I love pepperoni though 

*off to have a pizza with extra grease


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> *off to have a pizza with extra grease


I had a homemade pizza the other day, pitta bread with tomato puree, mozarella cheese, fresh chicken and pineapple, was better than any pizza I've ever had.

Note: by my earlier post saying I've cut out pizza, I mean takeaways, but it's rare I'll make homemade pizza.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

chicken kebab ain't good because they use the fatty meat...

but chicken shish kebab is fine just chicken breast and grilled probly most healthest thing if your out and about


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

stop worrying and just eat it. its not like your having it for 5 meals a day everyday ffs


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

sizar said:


> chicken kebab ain't good because they use the fatty meat...
> 
> but chicken shish kebab is fine just chicken breast and grilled probly most healthest thing if your out and about


Can you show me a single reason why fat from meat is a bad thing?


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

martin brown said:


> Can you show me a single reason why fat from meat is a bad thing?


No disrespect mate but are you for real ? :confused1:


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## lumix (Dec 13, 2009)

sizar said:


> No disrespect mate but are you for real ? :confused1:


Most the chicken take aways use is the same quality as the cheaper stuff from Asda, Tesco etc..

Brazilian chicken is popular in most take away style places, because of the price and quality. It's not the best chicken in the world, but I wouldn't say it's much worse than any other chicken.

How do I know this? because I used to work for brakes (UKs largest food supplier), and we sold into loads of kebab/pizza shops.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

God said:


> Nothing wrong with it in moderation


if it suits you fair enough ..but is not something i would pay for as i know what type of meat is used .. animals fats are not good and that's a FACT no end of it


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

sizar said:


> if it suits you fair enough ..but is not something i would pay for as i know what type of meat is used .. animals fats are not good and that's a FACT no end of it


What, animal fats as in mince meat? Beef?

Dude, every bit of meat is from an animal and the fats are what make the actual meat a decent source (as well as the protein obviously).


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

sizar said:


> if it suits you fair enough ..but is not something i would pay for as i know what type of meat is used .. *animal*s *fats are not good and that's a FACT no end of it[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Expect to be flamed, Sizar - as this is simply NOT true!
> 
> ...


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## hamsternuts (Feb 8, 2009)

nowt wrong with a bit of fat, here and there.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Prodiver we have had this conversation before .. i respect your knowledge and what you said are correct i agree with you on the CARB and sugar and i agree with you .. you need some sat fat in diet and it does help your hormone .. but as you know what ever source of fat you eat.. will have SOME sat fat in there .. so i don't see why would anyone need to go staff their in greasy kebab to get sat fat ..


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

hamsternuts said:


> nowt wrong with a bit of fat, here and there.


i didn't say there is something wrong with it.. which is why i have fat in my diet my self .. but not all fats are the same i'm sure you know this.

i can't understand nearly 50g of fat in one meal can be good for you esp if more than half of it is sat fat.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

sizar said:


> i didn't say there is something wrong with it.. which is why i have fat in my diet my self .. but not all fats are the same i'm sure you know this.
> 
> i can't understand nearly 50g of fat in one meal can be good for you esp if more than half of it is sat fat.


Even if you did eat 50 grams of fat in one meal, it's only 450 calories, and in a bodybuilder's diet which will probably contain at least 3000 calories a day this is not excessive.

On a very conservative diet you'd expect to eat 600 calories as fat; some of us would eat more like 900 to 1200 calories as fat a day, but of course less carbs.


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

God said:


> Nothing wrong with it in moderation


Moderation is the key to a good diet


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Even if you did eat 50 grams of fat in one meal, it's only 450 calories, and in a bodybuilder's diet which will probably contain at least 3000 calories a day this is not excessive.
> 
> On a very conservative diet you'd expect to eat 600 calories as fat; some of us would eat more like 900 to 1200 calories as fat a day, but of course less carbs.


my diet has around 100g-120g fat maybe little more depends on the day if i eat more steak than chicken and salmon which is around 1200 calories from fat. the reason i said there is no point consuming that much fat is because most of it is sat fat.. Personally i find higher fat intake gives me spots ..2nd high intake of sat fat is linked to heart disease and cholesterol problem which is something i don't need.


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## fadel (Feb 13, 2010)

Mmm Chicken kebab, ugh this place is awful for temptations! Everyone talks about pizza and kebabs! lol mmm


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

sizar said:


> my diet has around 100g-120g fat maybe little more depends on the day if i eat more steak than chicken and salmon which is around 1200 calories from fat. the reason i said there is no point consuming that much fat is because most of it is sat fat.. Personally i find higher fat intake gives me spots ..2nd *high intake of sat fat is linked to heart disease and cholesterol problem* which is something i don't need.


No it's not: there's no proof that sat fat and high cholesterol levels cause heart disease, and definitely no link between dietary saturated fat intake and cholesterol level.

Your body will maintain a fairly consistent cholesterol level no matter how you diet - it will even try to undo any statins you take.

Normal fat intake and excessive sugars on top is certainly connected with spots!

Heart disease is today being linked more with bacterial infection and consequent inflammation of the arteries.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> No it's not: there's no proof that sat fat and high cholesterol levels cause heart disease, and definitely no link between dietary saturated fat intake and cholesterol level.
> 
> Your body will maintain a fairly consistent cholesterol level no matter how you diet - it will even try to undo any statins you take.
> 
> ...


that's the 1st time i have heard this .. i speak from experience from very close people to me .. my dad has heart issue for 4 heart attacks and finally end up having a bypass done. top doctor in London has told him it's been linked to his diet earlier in life.

i was there every time with him no one ever mention heart disease being linked to bacterial infection. if you have any articule covering this please share as i' am interested to have a read

spots i'm prone to spots naturally have oily skin. when i was dieting fat was low also doing cardio skin cleared up pretty good i was still getting the odd once. due to the nature of my skin

in term of sugar my diet has no sugar at all in any form ..

carbs are not excessive around 200g at most. and comes from oat and brown rice and veg the odd wholemeal bread but that's just once a week.

thanks prodiver


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

http://www.bhf.org.uk/Keeping_your_heart_healthy/preventing_heart_disease/cholesterol.aspx

British Heart Foundation seem to think saturated fats are the main cause towards heart disease...

And I'd like to think they know their stuff...


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

chrisj22 said:


> http://www.bhf.org.uk/Keeping_your_heart_healthy/preventing_heart_disease/cholesterol.aspx
> 
> British Heart Foundation seem to think saturated fats are the main cause towards heart disease...
> 
> And I'd like to think they know their stuff...


Yep i mean they can't be all wrong. and again like i said i have been to top hospitals to see heart specialist in the country with my dad .. they all told him the exact same thing .. surely these guys know what they are on about. they do major heart surgery and save lives.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Google "cholesterol myths".

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/The-Cholesterol-Myths.html


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

i'll read that give me few mins .. i know the myth about cholestrol and eggs but on sat fat umm not sure i'll report back in a min thanks diver


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

i haven't read the whole thing yet just part of it Yes it is interesting..but prodiver how would you make up your mind on what to believe.. ?

please don't understand me wrong I am not questioning your knowledge here just interested i know .. you know your stuff that's why i ask is good to learn


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

sizar said:


> i haven't read the whole thing yet just part of it Yes it is interesting..but prodiver how would you make up your mind on what to believe.. ?
> 
> please don't understand me wrong I am not questioning your knowledge here just interested i know .. you know your stuff that's why i ask is good to learn


As you know, especially because of the centenary of Darwin's The Origin of Species, we are more than ever aware of evolution.

One of the most interesting insights is that humans have been eating cultivated grains. pulses and roots for only about 10,000 years at the most, which is nothing in eveolutionary terms.

Before that, for millions of years, humans thrived on meat, fat, blood, eggs, milk, cheese, nuts, fruit, berries and occasional honey, but very little grain, pulses or roots, which being uncultivated were very meagre.

So it is highly likely that we have evolved to accept such a diet best.

Even when grain foods did become plentiful, as in 19th century Britain, CV disease was not apparently a big problem in the lower classes, but signiificant in the rich, who ate far more refined starches and above all sugar (sucrose) which is extracted and occurs normally quite little in nature.

In WW2 rationing did not restrict meat and fat calorie intake, because fat has a higher energy content, relatively as much as sugar, and indeces suggest that we were healthier than before.

The real watershed seems to have been the massive availability in the 50s of trans fats coupled with sugar: eg. margarine and tizer, choccy bars, biscuits, custard...

I have quite a high cholesterol level - which may be familial - but so far(!) at 60 show no sign of CV disease, yet I was brought up on a farm with lots of meat, milk, eggs, butter and fruit, but not too much sugar.

My farmer father was 6-3, powerfully muscular, 60" chest, and died of old age at 83 because his joints were worn out and he became sedentary and infirm.

My mother, who was always a smoker, was fit and active with no signs of lung cancer until a doc put her on statins because her cholesterol level was measured for the first time and read high: she died of a massive stroke about a year later at 82 miserable with impaired memory, joint pains and muscle weakness. I am absolutely convinced that the statins killed her prematurely. But of course the doctors know best, don't they?

I was trained as a diver/paramedic, and I can tell you that if you speak to docs and consultants they are honestly far less sure about everything than they appear to be when up against treating people and trying to make them feel better.


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## Mikazagreat (Apr 10, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> Martin makes a great post. The only things I really consider bad are things which combine trans fats/ heat damaged fats with simple sugars. So most confectionery isn't gonna be ideal for body comp, but on the other hand even if you eat a moderate amount I can't see it negatively affecting your health if other factors are sorted.
> 
> Good call on the pizza too martin. It's only when they're dripping in grease that I'm a bit turned off from them and that's usually the result of pepperoni on it...I love pepperoni though
> 
> *off to have a pizza with extra grease


Excellent post mate.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> As you know, especially because of the centenary of Darwin's The Origin of Species, we are more than ever aware of evolution.
> 
> One of the most interesting insights is that humans have been eating cultivated grains. pulses and roots for only about 10,000 years at the most, which is nothing in eveolutionary terms.
> 
> ...


I totally understand what your saying.. what you said just reminded me what my uncle was saying to me .. he said when he was younger he used to grill one specific part of fat that comes from sheep along with the meat and eat it but he was grown up on farm too.

Yes your right regarding humans lived on diary and meat and fat for thousands of years but i think human's body has changed just the same way our body shape height weight has change our immune system has changed as well.

my Nan was telling me when they were younger hardly anyone used to get these illness you get these days .. could all these be down to our diet or humans body and immune system changes as we go on .. :confused1:


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

I think you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Did you not see he was going out, which means beer, which mean chicken kebab is useless. Donar kebab all the way, chilli sauce, garlic mayo, onion and fck all green stuff. If you don't , you waste a whole day not eating due to hangover next day, tish.


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## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

Wow, interesting debate this started!

as for



> I think you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Did you not see he was going out, which means beer, which mean chicken kebab is useless. Donar kebab all the way, chilli sauce, garlic mayo, onion and fck all green stuff. If you don't , you waste a whole day not eating due to hangover next day, tish.


I wish mate, just couldn't have time after work to get chicken, cook it and eat it all before 8 so was going to grab a kebab on the way home. In the end settled for a triple whopper though which was lovely..... :whistling:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

sizar said:


> I totally understand what your saying.. what you said just reminded me what my uncle was saying to me .. he said when he was younger he used to grill one specific part of fat that comes from sheep along with the meat and eat it but he was grown up on farm too.
> 
> Yes your right regarding humans lived on diary and meat and fat for thousands of years but i think human's body has changed just the same way our body shape height weight has change our immune system has changed as well.
> 
> my Nan was telling me when they were younger hardly anyone used to get these illness you get these days .. could all these be down to our diet or humans body and immune system changes as we go on .. :confused1:


I think you'll find scientists believe the human "constitution" has evolved very little in 10,000 years.

People have grown bigger and stronger whenever their diets have become plentiful, and we're certainly living on average longer and longer - which is why diseases of age become more apparent.

Interestingly, the biggest men naturally are invariably big meat-eaters, as in Scandinavians, Britons, Germans, Americans, Masai, Tongans, Fijians, Sikhs...


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

BTW The chicken kebab on the big roll is not made of saturated fats!. If it is the same one I am aware of, it is made of chicken thigh. It is grilled, this is what you will find in Asian kebab shops.

Donor kebab on the roll is a completely different thing. It tastes nice but is made of the left over bits!. Processed and rolled together and sold. As for chicken tikka ( normally in nan bread), normally chicken breast grilled.


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## zelobinksy (Oct 15, 2008)

Chicken curry with extra chicken


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Imy79 said:


> BTW The chicken kebab on the big roll is not made of saturated fats!. If it is the same one I am aware of, it is made of chicken thigh. It is grilled, this is what you will find in Asian kebab shops.
> 
> Donor kebab on the roll is a completely different thing. It tastes nice but is made of the left over bits!. Processed and rolled together and sold. As for chicken tikka ( normally in nan bread), normally chicken breast grilled.


we didn't say it's made of SAT FAT .. chicken thigh is fatty .. that's all we said .. go to spec savers mate :cool2:


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2010)

Sizar, you seem to argue everything with everyone about things you dont seem to know about?

...Let alone back them up?

Are you a qualified nutritionist or something?


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Dan said:


> Sizar, you seem to argue everything with everyone about things you dont seem to know about?
> 
> ...Let alone back them up?
> 
> Are you a qualified nutritionist or something?


argue ?

what things i don't know about ? and how do you know what i know and i don't ?

I wasn't arguing .. i was just saying what i think. is called view and opinion.

i was asking pro diver to show some article regarding what he said because i never heard of it. so he did and i was reading it.

if you haven't got anything to share please don't judge. and why do you seem to be following my ass in every post.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2010)

sizar said:


> argue ?
> 
> what things i don't know about ? and how do you know what i know and i don't ?
> 
> ...


Trust me, i dont follow your ass anywhere, nor do i read your posts :lol:

I just think some things you say can be misunderstood as fact but some of the newbies IMO


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

There is sweet fck all wrong with getting a chicken kebab in a pitta bread on a sat night. unless you are pre comp etc its a much better choice than most other take aways i can think of.

if overly concerned about qualifty ask to see meet before hand of get one from an indian that uses breast meat.

as most on here buy there chicken in bulk from places like makro were pizza shops go anyway i cnt see why you would be picky.

I also am yet to see one person with a better than average physique say they wouldnt eat a chicken kebab. this speaks volumes in itself IMO.

all of this is excluded if pre contest of course and even then most will eat it on a cheat


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2010)

Want one now, but got no money on me


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## suliktribal (Apr 4, 2010)

If you like chicken kebabs lads, then try my healthy alternative. I love them.

You need

1 large chicken breast

Jar of tikka masala or tandoori spices

1 cal spray oil

Green and red peppers

Red onion

Greek yoghurt

Tortilla wraps

Iceberg lettuce

Mint sauce

Lemon juice

Chopped or crushed garlic

All you do is spray a frying pan with the oil, heat it, then throw in the spices (as much or little as you like) and crushed garic.

throw in the chicken breast, diced up. Stir it all on a high heat so that the chicken gets coated and cooked. You want it to burn a little.

Chop the peppers and grill or bake them.

Chop the onion (i prefer it raw on my 'babs) and the lettuce and mix in some lemon juice.

Mix some mint sauce with the greek yoghurt

When it's all done, serve it on a couple of tortillas with the salad and sauce and BOOM. Healthy 'babs.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Dan said:


> Trust me, i dont follow your ass anywhere, *nor do i read your posts * :lol:
> 
> I just think some things you say can be misunderstood as fact but some of the newbies IMO


thought so .. because i wasn't argue.

The whole point regarding CV disease is something touchy to me as i have been effected by it and trust me is not nice.

As prodiver said it's not link between dietary fat intake is more of a bacterial disease now days and doctors and British heart foundation says it's dietary so it just makes you wonder :confused1:


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2010)

Its caused by an unhealthy lifestyle. Not eating a chicken kebab now and then.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Dan said:


> Its caused by an unhealthy lifestyle. Not eating a chicken kebab now and then.


i wasn't saying its caused by eating one bloody kebab lol we were talking about FAT INTAKE .. sat fat to be exact. and animal fat.

there are other things people do and use are worse than kebab i know .. but it all piles up and catch up with you when your older. i think obviously human body can take so much abuse and battering before it shows any sign of illness.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

sizar said:


> i wasn't saying its caused by eating one bloody kebab lol we were talking about FAT INTAKE .. sat fat to be exact. and animal fat.
> 
> there are other things people do and use are worse than kebab i know .. but it all piles up and catch up with you when your older. i think obviously human body can take so much abuse and battering before it shows any sign of illness.


sizar you did history yes, your aware cavemen lived off of animal meat/fat alone. all over the world. have you ever read anything about ghengas khan. they are animal meat and fat daily and drank blood.

we as a race have got to were we are eating animal fat. In very cold places somewere i was watching on tv they ate solely oily fish and red meat and they were immensly healthy.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

hilly said:


> sizar you did history yes, your aware cavemen lived off of animal meat/fat alone. all over the world. have you ever read anything about ghengas khan. they are animal meat and fat daily and drank blood.
> 
> we as a race have got to were we are eating animal fat. In very cold places somewere i was watching on tv they ate solely oily fish and red meat and they were immensly healthy.


i haven't done HISTORY NO but i have watched the same thing on TV .. i know but surely genetic and environment makes a hell different .. look at people people in south and north pole eating pure Fatty meat from those big whales, i think the environment people are born and live in makes a big different


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

it does and so does quality. however the chicken in a kebab shop once or twice a week will have no negative effects to any1's diet unless they get food poisening lmao


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Ive imposed a donner ban on myself so will be having chicken ones from now on. I dont see them as bad at all


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## Omen (Mar 26, 2009)

I had chicken meat and chips on Thursday night. **** loads of vin on the chips, plenty of chilli, mint & mayo. Lavvly jabbly.

Just made sure I ran a bit faster and harder on my cardio session the next morn.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Vinegar is very underrated!

It helps dissolve fat and stimulates gastric juices and aids digestion.

It's interesting that moderate amounts of vinegar (dilute acetic acid), vit c (ascorbic acid), lemon juice (citric acid) and aspirin (salycilic acid) have clear health benefits.


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## 71081 (Apr 23, 2009)

Right, im off for a vitamin C, vinegar and asprin sandwich.......with a squirt of lemon juice on!!



Just PM'd you pro........


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

sizar said:


> No disrespect mate but are you for real ? :confused1:





sizar said:


> if it suits you fair enough ..but is not something i would pay for as i know what type of meat is used .. animals fats are not good and that's a FACT no end of it





sizar said:


> i wasn't saying its caused by eating one bloody kebab lol we were talking about FAT INTAKE .. sat fat to be exact. and animal fat.


Firstly thanks to Pro for educating people here a little and trying to stop the common myths of fats.

So yes I am for real  Perhaps you should question your beliefs first, then question my knowledge lol.

Chicken legs/thighs not only have fat in them they have far more micronutrients making them a good choice of meat for a meal.

Here's a little quote that explains a little about why these fats are important:

"Many people recognize that saturated fats are needed for energy, hormone production, cellular membranes and for organ padding. You may be surprised to learn that certain saturated fatty acids are also needed for important signaling and stabilization processes in the body.

Signaling processes work in the cells at the level of the membrane proteins, many of which are called G-protein receptors. The G-protein receptors become stimulated by different molecules and can be turned off or on in a manner similar to a binary light switch, which remains on for a limited time and then flips itself off until it is stimulated again.

The saturated fatty acids that play important roles in these processes are the 16-carbon palmitic acid, the 14-carbon myristic acid and the 12-carbon lauric acid. These saturated fatty acids are found in certain food fats. Palmitic acid, for example, comprises 45 percent of palm oil and about 25 percent of *animal* and dairy fats. Furthermore, the body makes palmitic acid out of excess carbohydrates and excess protein.

A biochemical process called palmitoylation, in which the body uses palmitic acid in stabilization processes, although not very well known, is very important to our health.

When these important saturated fatty acids are not readily available, certain growth factors in the cells and organs will not be properly aligned. This is because the various receptors, such as G-protein receptors, need to be coupled with lipids in order to provide localization of function.

The G-proteins come in different forms; the alpha subunit is covalently linked to myristic acid and the function of this subunit is important for turning on and off the binding to an enzyme called adenylate cyclase and thus the amplification of important hormone signals."

Taken from http://www.westonaprice.org/The-Importance-of-Saturated-Fats-for-Biological-Functions.html

M


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Vinegar is very underrated!
> 
> It helps dissolve fat and stimulates gastric juices and aids digestion.
> 
> It's interesting that moderate amounts of vinegar (dilute acetic acid), vit c (ascorbic acid), lemon juice (citric acid) and aspirin (salycilic acid) have clear health benefits.


I use cider viniged 3 x per day year round i read it can help with insulin sensitivity among other things.


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

sizar said:


> we didn't say it's made of SAT FAT .. chicken thigh is fatty .. that's all we said .. go to spec savers mate :cool2:


Never said anyone did..Just was making a general comment on the different type of meats, used in the kebabs. Just to clear any misunderstanding someone may have reading the thread. I do not need spec savers thank you:thumbup1:


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