# Shoulder so week :(



## Wireframe (May 6, 2011)

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and have been following a few threads for a while so decided to join.

I have been training regularly for about 6 months now following a beginner routine but am having serious problems with the shoulder press exercise. Its one of the key compound exercises in my program but i am just so unbelievably week lol.

Im 12.5st, 5' 11" and using the bench press as a bench mark to give you a picture of my ability (or lack of it lol) i can manage 3 sets of 10-12 reps with 60kg (on my best days). Shoulder press i can only manage 25kg  all my body aches as expected but never my shoulders, i just cant seem to hit them and they flop long before being anything close to worked

Anyone had similar experiences or have any suggestions or recommendations?

ps. It has been like this from day 1 so not related to overtraining.


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

What is your diet like, to improve in anything you need the right fuel.

When that is sorted you need to add just a little weight each week, and I mean little. You can by tiny discs on the net. That way week in week out you get just a tiny bit stronger.

How many days you training? post your workout mate.


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

why do you think your shoulders are weak? what are you basing that on? and you dont have to be in immense pain after every work out bud


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## 19years (Aug 1, 2009)

Wireframe said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm new to the forum and have been following a few threads for a while so decided to join.
> 
> ...


I'm 11st 3lb and i cannot lift 60kg on a bench (is that 60kg a side, or 30kg a side?) if it's 30kg a side i can just about squeeze 10 reps out, but then i have to take the 10kg plate off and go for 20kg a side.

You'll improve as you go along. Don't rush it and also don't worry about aching after every workout.. you want to feel a little bit of discomfort maybe the next day, but you don't wanna feel sore and be in pain !!!


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

19years said:


> is that 60kg a side, or 30kg a side?


60kgs a side?!?

That'd be 140kgs total

I don't think someone who could bench 140kgs for 3 sets of 10 would be asking advice about shoulder pressing 25kgs!!

I'm guessing it's more like 20kgs a side making a total of 60kgs including the bar


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## kriptikchicken (Mar 6, 2006)

ronnie cutler said:


> I'm guessing it's more like 20kgs a side making a total of 60kgs including the bar


That sounds more logical. :nod:

Wireframe, you have to remember that the parts of the shoulder working in a shoulder press movement are substantially smaller than the chest. Your genetics will also play a part in the weights lifted (levers, origins and insertion points of the muscle etc.) - google 'Kinesiology' if you want a detailed explanation.

Some muscles hurt more than others after a heavy session, for me it is my biceps... I hammer them, but the next day they are barely stiff. However when I hammer my triceps they are stiff as fook the next couple of days.

With this in mind, I would still say that they are both in proportion to each other.

The other thing is.... when you train your shoulders, are they the first muscle group you do? Or do you do them after chest? Coz if it is the latter, they could already be knackered! (along with your triceps)

6 Months isn't that long for training, just stick in there and they will progress in time. Just watch you don't go mental on them and start doing a 1000 sets a workout. More can sometimes bring less in bodybuilding. :nod:

Oh and :welcome:to the forum. :becky:


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## Wireframe (May 6, 2011)

Thank you all for the feedback, apologies for not checking back sooner.

My Diet was pretty poor. My original intention was to lose some weight which I have managed to quite well (in my opinion) so my first two months of workouts were in the morning on an empty stomach. I have managed to lose 3 stone so far and looking and feeling a lot healthier. I am now eating a lot healthier and have some protein supplements to increase my intake.

My original routine was a full body workout 3 days a week with some cardio on days off and some casual cardio on the weekends (bike ride, long walks etc). I worked on the shoulders (or tried to) quite early on in the old routine while I had some energy but still failed lol. To be honest I gave up on them for a while. I have since discovered the only shoulder exercise that feels like it's been worked in the upright row. Burns like hell when I do it and ache for a few days after.

I have enjoyed the workout but want to pack a bit more muscle so I am progressing onto a 2 day split working out 4 days a week. It's still a basic program but my gym doesn't really have the facilities to accommodate a more advanced routine. I plan to stick to this 2 day split for 8 weeks then I'll look at a more advanced program that will probably involve moving to a different gym.

I have worked the shoulder press back into my 2 day split but still only pushing 25kg and probably need to drop it a little as I'm struggling to push 8 reps on 3rd set lol but I guess I'm still in range, just feel a little self conscious when the "senior citizens" who share the gym push more ha-ha.

I have been developing an excel based tool with information on the nutritional contents of good food so I can easily calculate what my protein, carb and fat intake is from a database of food types(it's not very big at the moment but growing..). It's a good way for me to see what I'm lacking and easy to which food types I could use to balance my diet. Very useful for beginners (like me). Its still under construction but im happy to share it when its finished should anyone want a copy :becky:

Thanks again for the reply and welcome.


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

when you say shoulders mate are you talking exclusive about your delts or including your traps

(close grip upwards rows are for traps more then delts).

mate don't worry about what others are lifting around you, its all relative.

you could always try a different variation of the shoulder press and see how you get on with that. (barbell, unilateral etc)


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## Sully60001466868008 (Mar 8, 2011)

I have the same problem with shoulder. I feel I have progressed so much with everything apart from my shoulders. Never a tiny bit sore the next day after a hard session. Just need to find the right exercises for me I guess and hit them HARD!!!!


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## Wireframe (May 6, 2011)

Deltoids yeah. The upright row really makes them burn for me, a lot more than my traps do. Other problem I have is my gym is predominantly machines. There are no barbells and 1 rack of dumbbells (20kg max) that always has a queue lol. The shoulder press I use is also a machine and has a fixed backrest position which in my opinion could do with being pushed back a little as I do feel like my arms are forced too far back for the lift.

Have you found a good shoulder exercise that works for you Sully6000? I am going to persevere with the shoulder press, when I find a new gym ill probably have problems using free weights again as I'm on machines for a long time now and know I have lost some balance skills lol


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

can you shoulder press the 20kg dumbbells ok bud?


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## Wireframe (May 6, 2011)

I did try some seated dumbbell presses today, I started on the 14kg (28kg total) and it did feel a bit smoother on my shoulders but was having problems with balance. My arms were moving all over the place and I feared I may drop them so I had to stop lol. I'll try again when it's a little less busy.

Maybe I need a new gym sooner rather than later as i'm anticipating this problem with balance on virtually all free weight exercises that the advanced programs recommend. Does it take long to learn to keep the weights stable? Or am I going to have to go back to a beginner program with free weights to learn the basics all over when i find a new gym?


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## Temp (Apr 1, 2011)

stick to the free weights mate


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## kriptikchicken (Mar 6, 2006)

Wireframe said:


> but was having problems with balance. My arms were moving all over the place


Don't worry about that, EVERYBODY has this problem when they begin. You will pick it up soon enough. It is the balance that make you concentrate on your form so much more, and works the surrounding (stabilising) muscles as well. It will also allow for a much more natural range of motion as well.

I have only ever found one shoulder press machine that felt good, and that was hand welded by a bodybuilder. The rest, as you say has the grips too far back.


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## Temp (Apr 1, 2011)

i find most press movement machines i don't fit in properly, id say drop the machines a concentrate on trying to beat your pb on the dumbells.

ps another member banned ? :s what for this time


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

Temp said:


> ps another member banned ? :s what for this time


i can understand why ... but i don't know what the final straw was?!


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## Temp (Apr 1, 2011)

what happened ron ?

ps mate if your limited to 25kg dumbbells and your gym only has machines, it might be a good idea to change gyms


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## Wireframe (May 6, 2011)

Thank you all for the feedback. I will look at some alternatives, it's a shame as the gym is 2 minutes from my house lol.


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## Sully60001466868008 (Mar 8, 2011)

I think its just takes time for my shoulders. Been doing military press every shoulder session. Just don't feel I have moved up the weights very quickly on it though. Since I started training my chest strength has gone through the roof. Started on 16kg dumbells and after around 8 months im now on 34kg dumbells where as on shoulders I started on 16kg and i still struggle on 20kg. Just keep hitting it I guess!

I also added front shoulder raises with a 10kg plate and I feel this has worked well for me.


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## Sully60001466868008 (Mar 8, 2011)

I only use free weights on all my exercises as well


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