# Six pack or bulk? What would you prefer?



## StezzerRage (Oct 12, 2010)

Now I primarily consider myself to train for strength. However, I wouldn't be happy looking like Mark Rippertoe but having a 300kg squat.

I just read that Rippertoe takes the philosophy of "b0ll0cks to a six pack" and even claims that if you are concerned with getting defined abs you're basically shooting yourself in the foot strengthwise?

So, I guess people like me who are still beginners but who've been training for quite a few months need to come to a decsion. Do you a) start becoming a pure bodybuilder and worry less about how much you're squatting. Inwhich case is it time to move awayfrom programs like stronglifts etc? Or B) think "fvck how I look" I wanna get my deadlift up to competition standard?

So what would you rather bulk and strength? Or a lean physique with killer abs and not be as strong? What would women prefer?


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Powerlifters i always trained with had abbs and were many times world champions.

I have never lost my abbs and will never lose abbs......fat gut is not only revolting its also unhealthy.


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

Your post implies that to be strong you need to be fat, or at least have bodyfat levels which are higher than average! Despite, stronglifts being a great programme and mark rippetoe being a great coach, I do disagree with the way in which most strength coaches (online) brainwash beginners into thinking that you need to put on fat to get stronger.

THIS IS NOT TRUE!!! You can gain muscle/strength and have a six pack at the same time! The difference however, is that it is much harder!

More difficult in the sense that you need to be on point with your nutrition and the fact that progress will be slower!

The reason why most people who put on unnecessary amounts of fat in the quest for strength is because they don't have the nutritional knowledge or capacity to set out a structured diet to stay lean whilst gaining strength!


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## StezzerRage (Oct 12, 2010)

@ Lois Lane. How did you retain lean muscle mass on a bulk mate?

Rippertoe quote:

"I've seen guys gain ten pounds a week when they first get with the program," says Rip, "provided they aren't one of these snot-nosed little bastards that thinks visible abs is the be-all and end-all of athleticism and getting laid"

He seems to hate people who want to get a six pack lol.


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## tom0311 (Nov 17, 2008)

As above - you can be strong without being fat mate. As regards to you asking what women prefer? I'm guessing they prefer abs...


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Powerlifters i always trained with had abbs and were many times world champions.
> 
> I have never lost my abbs and will never lose abbs*......fat gut is not only revolting its also unhealthy.*


X2 I've got fat on a bulk before and it's not attractive at all, not only the unhealthy point but skin gets a lot more spot, oily skin, puffy face, feel crap tbh as well.

I have abs at the moment, not ripped but to the op question I'd rather be in between, not so fussed about being ripped but like to be lean as in visible abs but nice muscle fullness.


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

tom0311 said:


> As above - you can be strong without being fat mate. As regards to you asking what women prefer? I'm guessing they prefer abs...


x2 im leaner and leaner these days and I'd say im stronger and stronger then I used to be.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

StezzerRage said:


> @ Lois Lane. How did you retain lean muscle mass on a bulk mate?
> 
> Rippertoe quote:
> 
> ...


 Well we are talking about strength correct?

Strength does not correlate greatly with size.

Yes a big fat body will work better in a bench shirt but real strength comes from tendons/joints/cns much more than it does from muscles.

A lot of you just seem to totally miss understand what it means to get stronger. But by all means drink 10 liters of milk per day and have a few happy meals and be proud of your increasing lifts. BUT when you want to come back to reality enter your lifts into the strength/body weight calculater and i bet you will be horrified to see you have actually become WEAKER lb for lb. Remember each time you go up a weight class the standards become a lot higher. The leaner you can stay the lighter the weight group you are in the more competitive you are. Unless you are a super heavy then just go up to as heavy as you possibly can:lol:


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## 54und3r5 (Apr 11, 2008)

Stezzerrage - think about it logically mate! Information from the net, which is free, isn't always the best advice! If free advice off the internet got you the perfect physique, there would be no point for personal trainers/nutritionists!

Rippetoe knows his stuff about strength and shizzle, I'm not disputing this, but that doesn't mean you should follow everything he says. Similarly on this forum, you could take advice from me or one of the more experienced lifters and it may be detrimental to your progress!

Everyone's body is different! Variations of things work for muscle growth! Experiment and don't take a statement from a well respected guy as the be all and end all!!


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Also don't get me wrong you need to gain weight to some extent a 5ft10 guy at 150lb wont lift much but after a certain point diminishing returns kick into effect which i recon is at the 3.5lb per inch mark as an average estimate.

Yeah you need to gain weight but fast food and milk is not the way to go.

Proper balanced meals eating until you are sick then eating some more is the way to go along with hard training and hard cardio. You should always have a six pack outline....


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

I squat 300kg +

DL 300kg +

Bench 200kg +

Regularly

I have a year round six pack


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Forgot to add I eat [email protected] food also and drink beer regularly


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

jw007 said:


> Forgot to add I eat [email protected] food also and drink beer regularly


 Hows the health, been lying on the kitchen floor lately? :whistling:


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Mark Rippetoe looked pretty damn awesome in his prime

His like 50 ****ing years old now, hes aloud to let him self go abit :thumb:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

Lois_Lane said:


> Hows the health, *been lying on the kitchen* *floor lately*? :whistling:


Last nite as happens, 10 mins after squatting and about 3 mins after puking my ring up on my front door

Why you ask?? (was naked on kictchen Floor Con, which is IMO why you are interested  )


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

6 pack? are we on about abs or carling?


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

Ive got a question related to this, i want to gain a bit of upper body mass and look a bit bigger but my real goal is 'functional' strength just being very strong so i dont care what my abs and legs look like as long as their strong and can take a lot of punishment.

Can i have really strong ab muscles without a 6-pack? Because as long as its functional and does what i want im not to bothered about appearance


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## littlesimon (May 24, 2010)

Different strokes for different folks and all that. I could do with losing a little bit off my gut and would probably look a lot better if I got down to 18st, but I don't care about getting abs.

Lois_Lane is right about the weight gain and being weaker lb for lb.


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## james12345 (Jan 13, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> Mark Rippetoe looked pretty damn awesome in his prime
> 
> His like 50 ****ing years old now, hes aloud to let him self go abit :thumb:


Nobodies flaming him for this, people are disagreeing with his moronic ramblings of literally telling people to turn into fat ugly mess' to get strong.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

james12345 said:


> Nobodies flaming him for this, people are disagreeing with his moronic ramblings of literally telling people to turn into fat ugly mess' to get strong.


Hes not telling any one to turn into a fat ugly mess, I posted an interview up of him (which is what am guessing the op has read) where he says to eat clean veg, fruit, meat and stay away from sugars and crappy carbs, eat 4000calories a day but pref 6000 calories and not worry about fat intake


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

jw007 said:


> Last nite as happens, 10 mins after squatting and about 3 mins after puking my ring up on my front door
> 
> Why you ask?? (was naked on kictchen Floor Con, which is IMO why you are interested  )


 :lol: Or perhaps i do in fact read your journal on the sly:whistling:

See Mark with statements like eat 4000calories or even better 6000calories is where you lose me. First the same caloric intake is not needed by lets say a mesomorph compared to an ectomorph or a brick layer to an office worker. Second 6000calories? Unless you are a super heavy bodybuilder/strength athlete loaded up on every drug that kind of eating will not do you any favors.

Now i do agree he is a great strength coach. I have read a lot of his stuff....ordered from elite several times but his diet idea's are simply wrong.

Perhaps you know of Marc Bartley? Top 275lber american unlimited fed lifter with a crazy squat (1200lb) he owns a very well known company called SPUDinc. I train at his gym and know him well and he will be the first to tell you that eating like this will only bring health problems and pretty quickly at that.


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## james12345 (Jan 13, 2010)

Lois_Lane said:


> See Mark with statements like eat 4000calories or even better 6000calories is where you lose me. First the same caloric intake is not needed by lets say a mesomorph compared to an ectomorph or a brick layer to an office worker. Second 6000calories? Unless you are a super heavy bodybuilder/strength athlete loaded up on every drug that kind of eating will not do you any favors.
> 
> Now i do agree he is a great strength coach. I have read a lot of his stuff....ordered from elite several times but his diet idea's are simply wrong.


*2


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

This is something I have never understood, why a lot of people think that bulking means turning in to a fat bstard. Personaly I can easily put a stone on without change in BF. I see a lot of young lads in the gym gain 2-3 stone over a few months and for what, no strength increase well no more than if they had not put all the siht weight on, ok they might look big to the guy in the street but to me just look fat.


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## Fragjuice (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't feel comfortable being really lean, makes me feel *weak*, probably all psychological, but I can still get a visible six pack, even if it's not ripped (blo0dy hard work tho!)


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## HJL (Apr 26, 2009)

i like the ripped mens health look, as you can see the muscle lines of traps etc and the thinner waist line makes you look bigger (with no top on)

but also like the more full look. hell i even think some people look better a bit fatter as the face is larger. a bit of fat makes me feel cosey and warm


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2010)

Just i guess good strong body, not too ripped and not too bulky. Try not to ever compare to anyone as it drives people mad, but like a good ripped core, strong built legs, good triceps and stay in proportion... still working on rounder shoulders and lats are coming through well for broader back.

Never liked too big calves, as i think calves are really discussing and happy that i dont have a girly little waist, otherwise i will start looking like my girlfriend.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

MarkFranco said:


> Hes not telling any one to turn into a fat ugly mess, I posted an interview up of him (which is what am guessing the op has read) where he says to eat clean veg, fruit, meat and stay away from sugars and crappy carbs, eat 4000calories a day but pref 6000 calories and not worry about fat intake


Yeah I think his message is more aimed at the 'hardgainer' (read - skinny gym retards) crew that think they will be massive having one shake a day and doing curls 6 days a week.

Most people who struggle to gain any size would benefit from his advice certainly in the earlier stages of training.

I'm not bothered about a six pack - but if I looked like I never had been in a gym then I may start worrying a little more.


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## H22civic (Oct 6, 2009)

I always wonder about this when i go to powerlifting meets. While there are guys in good shape, a lot of guys are carrying quite a bit of excess weight. For example, at the last event i was at, there were a couple of guys well up in the 100kg class who could have EASILY dropped down into the 90kg bracket without loosing any strength. At the same time, turning their good lifts in the 100's into great lifts in the 90's. Its a win win situation, looking better and getting stronger at the same time(lb for lb).

I dont really understand it. By all means, add muscle and move up a weight class. But whats the point in gaining fat and being in the 100's while effectively only being a 90kg lifter?


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

H22civic said:


> I always wonder about this when i go to powerlifting meets. While there are guys in good shape, a lot of guys are carrying quite a bit of excess weight. For example, at the last event i was at, there were a couple of guys well up in the 100kg class who could have EASILY dropped down into the 90kg bracket without loosing any strength. At the same time, turning their good lifts in the 100's into great lifts in the 90's. Its a win win situation, looking better and getting stronger at the same time(lb for lb).
> 
> I dont really understand it. By all means, add muscle and move up a weight class. But whats the point in gaining fat and being in the 100's while effectively only being a 90kg lifter?


Because in reality nobody but vain selfish people really care about being lean????

Perhaps they love lifting and also have a life outside of the gym. I know it sounds like a poor excuse but the vast majority of people couldnt care less about having a six pack - meals out with family, beers with mates etc etc are all far more important to most people than being lean.


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## H22civic (Oct 6, 2009)

martin brown said:


> Because in reality nobody but vain selfish people really care about being lean????
> 
> Perhaps they love lifting and also have a life outside of the gym. I know it sounds like a poor excuse but the vast majority of people couldnt care less about having a six pack - meals out with family, beers with mates etc etc are all far more important to most people than being lean.


My point wasnt so much about having a six pack. Maybe it came across wrong. What i meant was, in powerlifting terms, would it not be better to have the best power/weight ratio possible? If you look leaner/more muscular as a by product then happy days.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

so what do you do if your not lean,have abit of fat around the navel and not very muscular but you want that mens health cover look?


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm going for I didnt it was a choice between one or the other


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