# Should I cut now or carry on bulking?



## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey guys,

I'm 18 years old, 183LBS (83KG) at about 17/18% bf. I'm really unsure as to weather I should continue with trying to lean bulk up until 200LBS (90KG) and then get on a HARD keto diet with very few carbs with maybe 1 carb up day per week with a ****load of cardio, to shred off the fat, or start cutting now? I would ideally like to be around 70/75KG @ around 10% bodyfat. I'm only 5 foot 10 so any muscle I put on is quite noticeable on my frame and I can fill out very easily. I've only been working out for a year seriously and I am starting university in a month or two so I would ideally like to have a pretty shredded body within my first year of university when we all live in shared student halls.

Here is my bulking diet:

Breakfast: 4 eggs scrambled, 2 pieces of toast, multivits, omega 3

meal: 100G brown rice with 100G tuna and handful of green beans and sweetcorn

meal: 100G brown rice with 200G chicken breast and handfull of green beans and sweetcorn

post workout: 2 scoops of whey protein, handfull of almonds

post workout meal: brown pasta 150G with either 250G of lamb/chicken/beef

snacks - peanut butter/cottage cheese

And i drink atleast 2 to 3 litres of water a day. I am also using 5G of creatine a day aswell.

Thank you for any advice.


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## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

Pictures speak a thousand words


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

will get my gym buddy to take some pics for me on monday


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

You are at the level where you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

You need a good progressive training plan, a diet plan that compliments the training plan and obviously a lot of dedication and grit.

On another note increase your water intake to at least 4 liters per day 2-3 liters does not cut it.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

If you wanna be 70kg in a couple of months I'd stop bulking right now


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

L11 said:


> If you wanna be 70kg in a couple of months I'd stop bulking right now


  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

L11 said:


> If you wanna be 70kg in a couple of months I'd stop bulking right now


Ok mate, how does this sound for a cutting diet? I've never cut this much before. And also your thoughts on using creatine while cutting??

8:30am

-green tea pill

-3 whole eggs, boiled

-1 cup of muesli/oats with low fat milk

10:30am

-green tea pill

-chicken breast (200g)

-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)

-10 almonds

12:30pm

-tuna (200g)

-75g of brown rice

-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)

3:00pm

-chicken breast (200g)

-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)

-10 almonds

5:00pm

-start of workout, protein shake (30g protein, 30g carbs)

6:30pm

-post workout, fast release protein shake (WPI), 1 banana

7:30pm

-steak (any)

-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)

9:30pm

-cottage cheese (150g)


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Creatine is fine when cutting, increase water intake as said


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> Ok mate, how does this sound for a cutting diet? I've never cut this much before. And also your thoughts on using creatine while cutting??
> 
> 8:30am
> 
> ...


Mate why a green tea pill? Just drink a cup of green tea. You still get the benefits and it can be added to your daily water intake.

Eat carbs around your workouts.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

TommyFire said:


> Mate why a green tea pill? Just drink a cup of green tea. You still get the benefits and it can be added to your daily water intake.
> 
> Eat carbs around your workouts.


I almost vomit when I drink it, i absolutely hate the taste of it. Overall does the diet look solid?


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

I got some pictures, sorry the posing is **** and I couldnt include any side chest/back shots but I have to hold my phone to take the picture  - cold on the pics


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Your higher than 17-18% b.f.


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

yorkshire.lad said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm 18 years old, 183LBS (83KG) at about 17/18% bf. I'm really unsure as to weather I should continue with trying to lean bulk up until 200LBS (90KG) and then get on a HARD keto diet with very few carbs with maybe 1 carb up day per week with a ****load of cardio, to shred off the fat, or start cutting now? I would ideally like to be around 70/75KG @ around 10% bodyfat. I'm only 5 foot 10 so any muscle I put on is quite noticeable on my frame and I can fill out very easily. I've only been working out for a year seriously and I am starting university in a month or two so I would ideally like to have a pretty shredded body within my first year of university when we all live in shared student halls.
> 
> ...


Hows your training?


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

SCOOT123 said:


> Hows your training?


at the moment im doing a 5 day split, when I go to university I may have to cut it down to a 3 day split depending on the workload, do you want me to type out my plan?



TommyFire said:


> Your higher than 17-18% b.f.


yeah these calipers are a bit ****, what would you estimate me at?


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

yorkshire.lad said:


> at the moment im doing a 5 day split, when I go to university I may have to cut it down to a 3 day split depending on the workload, do you want me to type out my plan?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> How much cardio bro ?


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

SCOOT123 said:


> I'm really lacking in the cardio department, maybe one 30 minute session per week. ****ing HATE it but I know it has to be done.


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

yorkshire.lad said:


> See i love cardio as it changed my life! but i did have a stage where i repulsed it! so what i did instead was....
> 
> PRE WORKOUT
> 
> ...


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## mannersjay (Aug 19, 2013)

I'd say bodyfat % is mid 20's. Start cutting dude. Good diet, but keep lifting hard n heavy (3-6 reps). Being big is pointless if you don't have the shape.


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Surely about 10 minutes or so of cardio in the gym aint gonna be to hard to do ?

If i ever hated doing something like training legs for example... id try this...

Tell myself all the time "I CANT WAIT TO DO LEGS! BRING IT ON BABY"

then when leg day finally came - id be so much more positive.

As mad as that sounds - it worked for me!


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks Scott I have to get my cardiovascular exercises in shape. What kind of diet would be more suitable for cutting? I'm thinking of a ketogenic diet with carb up days every 4th day?

Definitely going to start cutting, people comment that I am quite big for my age but need to lose the fat, I mean I deadlift 150KG for reps so yeah I do wish I could see my abs and get down to 12% atleast. Here is what I am planning on doing for my cut then. I'm just ****ting myself that I'm going to lose muscle that I have worked so hard for.

*planned cutting diet*

*8:30am *

*
-green tea pill*

*
-3 whole eggs, boiled*

*
-1 cup of muesli/oats with low fat milk*

*
*

*
10:30am*

*
-green tea pill*

*
-chicken breast (200g) *

*
-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)*

*
-10 almonds*

*
*

*
12:30pm*

*
-tuna (200g)*

*
-75g of brown rice*

*
-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)*

*
*

*
3:00pm*

*
-chicken breast (200g)*

*
-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)*

*
-10 almonds*

*
*

*
5:00pm*

*
-start of workout, protein shake (30g protein, 30g carbs)*

*
*

*
6:30pm*

*
-post workout, fast release protein shake (WPI), 1 banana*

*
*

*
7:30pm*

*
-steak (any)*

*
-2 handfuls of defrosted veggies (broccoli, carrot, caulifower)*

*
*

*
9:30pm*

*
-cottage cheese (150g)*

*workout plan while cutting*

monday: chest

tuesday: triceps

wednesday back & biceps (deadlifts on this day heavy weight)

thursday: shoulders

friday: legs (squats heavy leg press, quad extensions etc on this day) and some more biceps

sat + sun = rest

I'll also be doing some form of cardio 3 times a week for 30 minutes? is this enough or should I do it more?

I train as hard as I ****ing can until I can't give it any more. Train till absolute failure and until I am certain I will get mental DOMS the next day. Any advice for my first cut will be taken on board.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

SCOOT123 said:


> Surely about 10 minutes or so of cardio in the gym aint gonna be to hard to do ?
> 
> If i ever hated doing something like training legs for example... id try this...
> 
> ...


I know mate it's just a mindset, kind of depressing knowing i've got a decent base underneath all this fat but thats the motivation I need to finally get serious with the cardio!


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

I am still a noobie learning a lot mate - i just know a thing or two when it comes to losing weight !

I would love to try that KETO i just as stupid as this sounds - couldnt really simplify what to do !

Is it literally just every 4 days have like a feed of carbs ?


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

SCOOT123 said:


> I am still a noobie learning a lot mate - i just know a thing or two when it comes to losing weight !
> 
> I would love to try that KETO i just as stupid as this sounds - couldnt really simplify what to do !
> 
> Is it literally just every 4 days have like a feed of carbs ?


keto is basically an extremely low carbohydrate diet until your body goes into a state of ketosis (burning off fat as an energy source due to the lack of carbs) you have maybe 1 carb up day per week to ensure you dont totally lose all your glycogen from the muscles I believe.

everyone I have known who has tried the keto diet has lost a LOT of weight in a very short amount of time. i'm just concerned i will lose muscle mass but **** it, i'm gonna do it. I'm only 18 test levels are through the roof should be able to regain it in no time

the diet i posted above is an example of a keto


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> keto is basically an extremely low carbohydrate diet until your body goes into a state of ketosis (burning off fat as an energy source due to the lack of carbs) you have maybe 1 carb up day per week to ensure you dont totally lose all your glycogen from the muscles I believe.
> 
> everyone I have known who has tried the keto diet has lost a LOT of weight in a very short amount of time. i'm just concerned i will lose muscle mass but **** it, i'm gonna do it. I'm only 18 test levels are through the roof should be able to regain it in no time
> 
> the diet i posted above is an example of a keto


Mate the diet you posted above is nowhere near a keto diet??


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Fck that lol! Id miss my potato after gym to much i think lol!

Slow and steady for me it is then


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

TommyFire said:


> Mate the diet you posted above is nowhere near a keto diet??


why not? i thought a keto simply meant high protein mid fat low carbs?


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> why not? i thought a keto simply meant high protein mid fat low carbs?


Keto is roughly a 65/35 fat/protein percentage. You don't want any carbs whatsoever.


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> why not? i thought a keto simply meant high protein mid fat low carbs?


...and you reckon a cup of oats, 75g of rice and a banana is low carbs??


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

Also, if you cut calories too drastically that's when you risk losing a lot of muscle mass.

Also, with regards to the keto, if I remember you don't carb up on true keto. You're referring to a CKD which you cycle in a carb up day. This is usually once a week, and most wait 2 weeks into their diet before having their first carb up day.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

Is this better?

breakfast: 3 boiled eggs, green tea pill, glass of semi skimmed milk

before lunch: green tea pill, 200g chicken breast, vegetables, almonds

lunch: 200g tuna, 50g brown rice, vegetables

after lunch: 200g chicken breast, vegetables, almonds

preworkout + protein shake

post workout - protein shake

dinner: chicken/fish/steak (200g) vegetables

before bed: cottage cheese

and then on a carb up day simply add more brown rice with more of the meals


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> Is this better?
> 
> breakfast: 3 boiled eggs, green tea pill, glass of semi skimmed milk
> 
> ...


If you want to do a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet - then no.

If the above put's you into a calorie deficit, then you can still lose weight and/or fat.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

billly9 said:


> If you want to do a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet - then no.
> 
> If the above put's you into a calorie deficit, then you can still lose weight and/or fat.


Do you think you could help me modify it or tell me what I would have to change that would roughly resemble a cyclic ketogenic? I have a good idea of what I will eat on the carb up day, just not quite sure how my meals should look the rest of the week.


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> Is this better?
> 
> breakfast: 3 boiled eggs, green tea pill, glass of semi skimmed milk *Milk has 5g Carbs (sugar) per 100ml*
> 
> ...


You want to remove all direct carb sources. You'll get a few trace carbs from your vegetables, but you want to ensure that they're only green fibrous ones, and perhaps take a fibre supplement like psyllium husk to aid your bowels.

You also want to increase fat sources, ideally healthy types - nuts, oily fish, whole eggs, avocado, evoo, nut oils, coconut oil etc etc.

An easy-ish way to stick to the correct ratio is having roughly the same gram of protein to fat in a meal, so say 25-30g protein/fat. This works out roughly at 65%fat/35%protein, which is recommended for ketosis.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

billly9 said:


> You want to remove all direct carb sources. You'll get a few trace carbs from your vegetables, but you want to ensure that they're only green fibrous ones, and perhaps take a fibre supplement like psyllium husk to aid your bowels.
> 
> You also want to increase fat sources, ideally healthy types - nuts, oily fish, whole eggs, avocado, evoo, nut oils, coconut oil etc etc.
> 
> An easy-ish way to stick to the correct ratio is having roughly the same gram of protein to fat in a meal, so say 25-30g protein/fat. This works out roughly at 65%fat/35%protein, which is recommended for ketosis.


Aaah ok mate, thanks a lot. So I will cut out all the carb sources, ensure any vegetables I do eat are low in carbs (broccoli, cucumbers tomatoes green beans etc.).

for a refeed day does this seem alright?

Breakfast: 4 eggs scrambled, 2 pieces of toast, multivits, omega 3

meal: 100G brown rice with 100G tuna and handful of green beans and sweetcorn

meal: 100G brown rice with 200G chicken breast and handfull of green beans and sweetcorn

post workout: 2 scoops of whey protein, handfull of almonds

post workout meal: brown pasta 150G with either 250G of lamb/chicken/beef

snacks - peanut butter/cottage cheese

also thanks for all the good advice lads, ill take progress photos hopefully this will be a really good cut. It's my first one so I'm quite looking forward to it.


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## umadbrah (Jul 20, 2011)

id say whatever makes you happy, but it would be more healthy to cut first and get it over with and then a nice long bulk


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

Mate when people say no carbs, they mean no carbs. :laugh:


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2013)

SkinnyJ said:


> Mate when people say no carbs, they mean no carbs. :laugh:


50g carbs is ok for keto


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

-_- said:


> 50g carbs is ok for keto


Depends on your view on keto. I would agree 50g from green veg is fine. I was more referring to op chucking in rice when people have said no carbs.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

ok well im starting my cut from tomorrow, cutting out all carbs apart from any that are present in vegetables/seasonings/sauces in small amounts. will keep you all updated if you are interested.


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

Good luck mate.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

SkinnyJ said:


> Good luck mate.


thanks  gonna need it. cutting from mid twenties down to 12%... How long do you reckon it will take on such a diet? I mean i've never cut before this is my first time. Also is doing cardio 3 times a week for 30 mins too much?


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

yorkshire.lad said:


> thanks  gonna need it. cutting from mid twenties down to 12%... How long do you reckon it will take on such a diet? I mean i've never cut before this is my first time. Also is doing cardio 3 times a week for 30 mins too much?


It will take months mate.

Do yourself a favour and try and find a download of "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald. Even better is "Bodyopus" by Dan Duchaine. Both are quite heavy reading for a newbie but they will teach you everything you EVER need to know about keto.


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## yorkshire.lad (Apr 11, 2013)

TommyFire said:


> It will take months mate.
> 
> Do yourself a favour and try and find a download of "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald. Even better is "Bodyopus" by Dan Duchaine. Both are quite heavy reading for a newbie but they will teach you everything you EVER need to know about keto.


Downloaded it now mate, it will make for some good reading when i'm in a university room all on my own ahaha. Gonna try source the bodyopus one later.

Whilst on the cut will my lifts remain pretty much at constant weights or is it likely they will go up/down?

cheers!


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