# Can I Build Lean Mass on a calorie deficit on a PH?



## unkn0wn123 (Feb 28, 2016)

I lost 4+ years due to personal events effecting my ability to workout, I took a PH years back and it worked somewhat well (SD Matrix) I eat once a day now, helped loose me weight since I use to be 20 stone.

Is it possible to gain muscle on a PH while on one meal a day? To get lean and build lean mass.


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

no


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## unkn0wn123 (Feb 28, 2016)

So I will need to eat at least 2000 cals a day to make the most of it, and to maintain it?


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## warsteiner (Jul 15, 2013)

Eating one meal a day isn't going to be healthy, how many calories is the meal?

You need to work out your maintenance calories and take it from there. If you want to lose weight then you can drop 500 cals below maintenance and with a PH probably maintain muscle while still losing a fair amount of fat with cardio/training. If you are looking for increasing muscle along with losing fat then 250 cals below maintenance with increased cardio will help and you can monitor your progress along the way and increase/reduce calories or cardio as required.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

warsteiner said:


> Eating one meal a day isn't going to be healthy


 Why?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

unkn0wn123 said:


> I lost 4+ years due to personal events effecting my ability to workout, I took a PH years back and it worked somewhat well (SD Matrix) I eat once a day now, helped loose me weight since I use to be 20 stone.
> 
> Is it possible to gain muscle on a PH while on one meal a day? To get lean and build lean mass.


 the simple answer is no you wont be able to build any muscle eating once a day no matter the amount of calories as MPS would be virtually none existent for 20hrs of the day, building muscle tissue is a fine balance between MPS and MB

back to the original question of being able to build lean tissue on a calorie deficit well yes you can but it depends on the make up of the diet, a recent study showed that subjects on a calorie deficit of 40% gained leaned tissue when their protein was 3.5g per kg.....

to the comment about eating once a day being healthy, well in the short term no its not but long term it could raise some real issues with digestion, many dismiss digestion as a minor thing but it is the centre of nutrition mainly because if digestion is not optimal or not functioning well it can create some real issue for the individual.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> back to the original question of being able to build lean tissue on a calorie deficit well yes you can but it depends on the make up of the diet, a recent study showed that subjects on a calorie deficit of 40% gained leaned tissue when their protein was 3.5g per kg.....


 was there a time-frame in which this was effective?

It sounds interesting, albeit dull and not too good health wise.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

andyboro said:


> was there a time-frame in which this was effective?
> 
> It sounds interesting, albeit dull and not too good health wise.


 why dull and not good health wise?


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> why dull and not good health wise?


 working on my maintenance of 3000ish cals, a 40% deficit would give me 1800 cals per day in total.

100kg bw = 350g of protein (1400 cals) leaving 400 cals for everything else, or more to the point - not a lot of everything else lol.

basically either 44g of fat or 100g of carbs and im done.

I guess if the remainder was focused on good fats then the health bit may not be relevant. The dull bit would still stand though I think?


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Guess this study proves the @banzi diet works then


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> the simple answer is no you wont be able to build any muscle eating once a day no matter the amount of calories as MPS would be virtually none existent for 20hrs of the day, building muscle tissue is a fine balance between MPS and MB
> 
> back to the original question of being able to build lean tissue on a calorie deficit well yes you can but it depends on the make up of the diet, a recent study showed that subjects on a calorie deficit of 40% gained leaned tissue when their protein was 3.5g per kg.....
> 
> to the comment about eating once a day being healthy, well in the short term no its not but long term it could raise some real issues with digestion, many dismiss digestion as a minor thing but it is the centre of nutrition mainly because if digestion is not optimal or not functioning well it can create some real issue for the individual.


 Sorry to go OT on this but on the subject of digestion do you recommend a pro biotic?

I take digestive enzymes already but I want to try a pro biotic. Can you recommend one please?


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

andyboro said:


> was there a time-frame in which this was effective?
> 
> It sounds interesting, albeit dull and not too good health wise.


 I did something similar when I started weight loss

Roughly 360g protein and aminos, 30g carbs, 30g fats, 20g fibre. Lost 21kg in three months, then hit a plateau, switched to LCHF and lost another 10kg in two months.

But... I still cannot stand the sight of low fat cottage cheese, tuna in brine or any form of lean meat cooked without fat. 

---

Other than that, I think the subject is primarily individual dependant. We are not pandas, the world will not end if we are not chewing bamboo constantly. Humans can adapt and intermittent fasting is a lifestyle quite common in a number of cultures, all of which have better metabolic health than the average modern consumerist.

If your current situation is crap (low muscle, high fat), then it is possible even without prohormones, and with prohormones you can definitively achieve more.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

andyboro said:


> working on my maintenance of 3000ish cals, a 40% deficit would give me 1800 cals per day in total.
> 
> 100kg bw = 350g of protein (1400 cals) leaving 400 cals for everything else, or more to the point - not a lot of everything else lol.
> 
> ...


 health would not be relevant at all even if the remainder was not fats, i don't see where health would be compromised ? what part of your health would be compromised?

as for being Dull thats down to the individual Dull for you or me might not be Dull for another



BoomTime said:


> Sorry to go OT on this but on the subject of digestion do you recommend a pro biotic?
> 
> I take digestive enzymes already but I want to try a pro biotic. Can you recommend one please?


 i use this one PurePharma


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> health would not be relevant at all even if the remainder was not fats, i don't see where health would be compromised ? what part of your health would be compromised?
> 
> as for being Dull thats down to the individual Dull for you or me might not be Dull for another
> 
> i use this one PurePharma


 Thanks mate, will give it a go.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> health would not be relevant at all even if the remainder was not fats, i don't see where health would be compromised ? what part of your health would be compromised?
> 
> as for being Dull thats down to the individual Dull for you or me might not be Dull for another
> 
> i use this one PurePharma


 Cholesterol was my first thought.. happy to be told if I'm wrong though.

All I asked was whether this was a finite approach.. wish I hadn't bothered now lol.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

andyboro said:


> Cholesterol was my first thought.. happy to be told if I'm wrong though.
> 
> All I asked was whether this was a finite approach.. wish I hadn't bothered now lol.


 why because i have asked you to explain what you meant??

my posts to you is to determine why you think it is an unhealthy approach as i cannot answer if it was or was not unless i understand why you believe it to be an unhealthy approach?

plus you didn't ask if it was a finite approach, this was a study to show you could gain lean tissue on a calorie deficit, is it an approach i would advise probably not but it can happen.......


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> the simple answer is no you wont be able to build any muscle eating once a day no matter the amount of calories as MPS would be virtually none existent for 20hrs of the day, building muscle tissue is a fine balance between MPS and MB
> 
> back to the original question of being able to build lean tissue on a calorie deficit well yes you can but it depends on the make up of the diet, a recent study showed that subjects on a calorie deficit of 40% gained leaned tissue when their protein was 3.5g per kg.....
> 
> to the comment about eating once a day being healthy, well in the short term no its not but long term it could raise some real issues with digestion, many dismiss digestion as a minor thing but it is the centre of nutrition mainly because if digestion is not optimal or not functioning well it can create some real issue for the individual.


 Got that study to hand please?


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> why because i have asked you to explain what you meant??
> 
> my posts to you is to determine why you think it is an unhealthy approach as i cannot answer if it was or was not unless i understand why you believe it to be an unhealthy approach?
> 
> plus you didn't ask if it was a finite approach, this was a study to show you could gain lean tissue on a calorie deficit, is it an approach i would advise probably not but it can happen.......


 I didn't/dont expect you to know if its finite tbh, I asked if the study had a time frame within it for which it was effective instead with this being something that the information might be there for.

The impact on Cholesterol was it really - we're constantly reminded about keeping a balance of fats in our diets so something like this would appear to go against that.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Drogon said:


> Got that study to hand please?


 the study is discussed in this podcast, they where supposed to attach the link to this page but haven't so far, i will check research gate for it though

We Do Science



andyboro said:


> I didn't/dont expect you to know if its finite tbh, I asked if the study had a time frame within it for which it was effective instead with this being something that the information might be there for.
> 
> The impact on Cholesterol was it really - we're constantly reminded about keeping a balance of fats in our diets so something like this would appear to go against that.


 yes of course the study had a time frame i just cant remember it (i am not at my desk) the study was to show that whilst in a calorie deficit you can gain lean tissue if you have a high amount of Protein, the study does not address if you have a low amount of fat does it effect Cholesterol but then the question you would then ask is what is considered a low fat amount?

i am not being awkward as you might think but to determine the exact reason you was getting at as the health thing could of been around kidney function and protein intake which as we all know is pure crap.....so i needed to determine where your understanding was with the health question......


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> the study is discussed in this podcast, they where supposed to attach the link to this page but haven't so far, i will check research gate for it though
> 
> We Do Science
> 
> ...


 Fair play - point taken.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

andyboro said:


> Fair play - point taken.


 i really wasn't meaning to be a d1ck just to get a direct question.......on that i had forgotten that the actually study was to determine body composition but also to see if it effected health markers so they did look at blood lipids and found no negative effect, the study was 8 weeks in length...

here it is

http://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-016-0114-2


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> i really wasn't meaning to be a d1ck just to get a direct question.......on that i had forgotten that the actually study was to determine body composition but also to see if it effected health markers so they did look at blood lipids and found no negative effect, the study was 8 weeks in length...
> 
> here it is
> 
> http://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-016-0114-2


 Totally understand, I've just assumed that you'd have known what I meant without taking into account the amount of bollocks that people believe first lol.

cheers for sharing the link.


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> i really wasn't meaning to be a d1ck just to get a direct question.......on that i had forgotten that the actually study was to determine body composition but also to see if it effected health markers so they did look at blood lipids and found no negative effect, the study was 8 weeks in length...
> 
> here it is
> 
> http://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-016-0114-2


 This is very interesting.

I have not read the study yet but does it go into any detail on the amount of fat loss that was achieved?


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

BoomTime said:


> This is very interesting.
> 
> I have not read the study yet but does it go into any detail on the amount of fat loss that was achieved?



View attachment table.JPG


Doesn't seem bad considering timescale and being undoubtedly unassisted.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

lions can eat once a week, they have lean mass and muscle tissue.

and before you say we are not lions, we can live on proteins and fats and the odd carb, pretty much what lions do


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> lions can eat once a week, they have lean mass and muscle tissue.
> 
> and before you say we are not lions, we can live on proteins and fats and the odd carb, pretty much what lions do


 living is one thing, can we train and grow?


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

BoomTime said:


> Thanks mate, will give it a go.


 http://www.naturesbest.co.uk/acidophilus-extra-10-billion-p541/

I have used these


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> living is one thing, can we train and grow?


 why not, you are getting enough cals and aminos.


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

I made the best gains of my life eating once a day and training fasted. Went from 69 kg to 80 something . I had just started training.


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## icamero1 (Jul 3, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> the simple answer is no you wont be able to build any muscle eating once a day no matter the amount of calories as MPS would be virtually none existent for 20hrs of the day, building muscle tissue is a fine balance between MPS and MB
> 
> back to the original question of being able to build lean tissue on a calorie deficit well yes you can but it depends on the make up of the diet, *a recent study showed that subjects on a calorie deficit of 40% gained leaned tissue when their protein was 3.5g per kg.....*
> 
> to the comment about eating once a day being healthy, well in the short term no its not but long term it could raise some real issues with digestion, many dismiss digestion as a minor thing but it is the centre of nutrition mainly because if digestion is not optimal or not functioning well it can create some real issue for the individual.


 really intrigued by the above comment. do you know if the subjects were unassisted? also, does a 40% deficit mean they were consuming only 60% of their maintenance calories? cheers Pscarb


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

icamero1 said:


> really intrigued by the above comment. do you know if the subjects were unassisted? also, does a 40% deficit mean they were consuming only 60% of their maintenance calories? cheers Pscarb


 there are no nutritional studies that use steroids on the subjects, well none from any published papers, the subjects where unassisted.....

not to sound blunt buddy but i think it is a given that if someone has a diet that puts them in a 40% deficit then they are eating 60% of their maintenance 

the study/podcast is posted on page 1 of this thread, it is worth a listen


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## unkn0wn123 (Feb 28, 2016)

Seem to be a debate about one meal a day being healthy and being able to build muscle, a personal trainer I know said eating once a day is fine. And that it is posible to be clean and put on muscle on that diet, now what's in that meal a day would matter.

Of course I can eat two meals a day for the sake of protein and carbs for energy and muscle building. And being on a PH will mean I have to stay on a healthy diet to keep or make gains.

Gonna be a hard habbit to break, everyone has opinions if eating once a day is posible, one personal trainers opinion doesn't make it right but it gives some rep to the idea being healthy.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

unkn0wn123 said:


> Seem to be a debate about one meal a day being healthy and being able to build muscle, a personal trainer I know said eating once a day is fine. And that it is posible to be clean and put on muscle on that diet, now what's in that meal a day would matter.
> 
> Of course I can eat two meals a day for the sake of protein and carbs for energy and muscle building. And being on a PH will mean I have to stay on a healthy diet to keep or make gains.
> 
> Gonna be a hard habbit to break, everyone has opinions if eating once a day is posible, one personal trainers opinion doesn't make it right but it gives some rep to the idea being healthy.


 the PT was wrong, no matter what you eat in that meal and the quantity you would only get a certain amount of MPS and that would not last long so for the majority of the day your muscles would not have any Protein to stimulate MPS, you would not gain muscle on that diet.

i would be careful about saying because a PT has said something is correct that gives some rep to the method, most PTs these days have that qualification from a 4-6 week course, i know more bad PT's than i know good ones......

even with 2 meals per day you will be hard pushed to gain lean tissue, there is a reason to why when any study has been carried out on meal frequency and positives to the body (either composition or lean tissue) have compared diets with no less than 3 meals a day......


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## unkn0wn123 (Feb 28, 2016)

This PT has more than one qualification but I understand what you mean. Perhaps I'll try to eat more protein. I understand you need food for roids to build even if it's winstrol or any cutting roid, so more protein and carbs makes sense but will be an odd change. I'll stick to once a day until I'm at my ideal weight.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

unkn0wn123 said:


> This PT has more than one qualification but I understand what you mean. Perhaps I'll try to eat more protein. I understand you need food for roids to build even if it's winstrol or any cutting roid, so more protein and carbs makes sense but will be an odd change. I'll stick to once a day until I'm at my ideal weight.


 I could go on a course for 2 months and get more than one qualification doesn't mean I know what I am talking about as it's clear this PT doesn't

you need food to grow period on gear or not, if you are eating all your calories in one meal you can certainly survive but lean tissue requires that you are in a positive protein balance majority of the time and eating one meal you would not be in a positive protein balance the majority of the time....

so so can you survive and maintain weight on one meal yes, can you build lean tissue no not in my opinion given the data that is available


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## unkn0wn123 (Feb 28, 2016)

Agree on the protein bit, as of now I'm loosing weight which is my goal so it's obvious my current diet isn't good to keep muscle or body fat. So I may have to increase it to two meals a day which shouldn't be to hard. Unless I have one huge meal lol. I agree you could go on a course and get qualifications, having the money to do so is another thing.

But I hate doctors despite there "degrees" so it would be hypocritical of me to agree with a PT just because of qualifications.

Anyway this can be delete now or kept for informational purposes, cheers to everyone for the help.


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