# >>>> DAX 2010 <<<<



## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Hi Guys n Gals

I thought i'd start a journal to help with motivation, keep track of progress, get some advice and maybe a little banter as well. This is a great site for info and has a nice community of people, so feel free to offer any advice if you feel so inclined.

Ive been wanting to do this for a while and have finally got round to it and am looking forward to seeing my own progress over the coming months.

So......

*A bit of history* -

I *had* been training for a couple of years and made some good gains. Started off very skinny, about 10st at 6ft! I Managed to get to about 14st by spring last year. To much B/F but i was happy not to be skinny anymore, i'd also gained a decent amount of muscle so was relatively happy (see avi)

Anyway the plan was to cut but this never happened, work got in the way along with other personal commitments and so we come to this point in time. Ive not trained, done cardio or even been in the gym for about 11 months!!!! (until today)

I actually weighed myself today and was quite shocked at how much weight i'd lost, im now sitting at 11 3/4 stone. WOW... not good. I knew i'd lost weight but that much is rather disappointing but then im a lot leaner than i was so maybe there's a flip side to it?

Anyway enough of the intro here's the routine im doing for a while -

*Upper / Lower 4 Day split*

*Monday - Upper*

BB Incline Bench

BB Push Presses

BB Rows / DB Rows

BB Shrugs / DB Shrugs

BB Curls

*Tuesday - Lower*

Squats

RDL

Leg Extensions

Calf Raises

*Wednesday* - Off / Cardio

*Thursday - Upper*

BB Bench

BB Push Presses

Chins / underhand lat pulldowns

Cable Rows

Skulls / DB triceps extensions

*Friday - Lower*

Deadlifts

Leg Press

Leg extensions / lunges (possibly)

Calf Raises

*Saturday and Sunday *- off / Cardio

Concerntrating on mainly compound exercises with reps in the range of 6 - 15. I may do one heavy / lower rep day and one lighter / higher rep day. Not sure yet.

The routine may not be the "normal" BB split but i really want to try something different and push myself a bit. Im pretty much a newbie again and hopefully will have some muscle memory aswell so will hopefully see some reasonable gains.

Ive done lots of different spilts in the past and have always favored more rather then less (ive also gained better from a higher volume routine than a lower one)

In the end if it becomes to taxing i can always switch the routine around and drop a bit of volume, no problem.

Ok onto my diet.....

The Average day will look something like this (this is what ive eaten today)

*Wake -* Scoop of Whey

*9am -* Oats, 4 whole eggs, scoop of Whey, multi vits etc

*10.30am -* Train

*11.30am (approx) PWO shake -* whey, malto, creatine

*12.30pm PWO meal -* Steak, Sweet potatoes, mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

*4pm -* Tuna, basmati rice, mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

*7pm -* Large grilled Chicken and avocado salad, EVOO and balsamic vinegar dressing

*Pre-Bed -* Tub of Quark, white choc flavoring, EVOO

*Snacks will be -* Mixed nuts, fruit

Im trying to keep the carbs slightly lower and fat higher as i dont like how i feel eating alot of carbs ( bloated, hot and generally sh1tty)

So there it is, with a bit of luck and most of all being consistent i can achieve some good results this year.

As i said, all comments and banter welcome (be nice lol)

Thanks for reading.

DAX :thumbup1:

ps. i'll get some starting pics up asap


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

OK first session in the gym today in 11 months...... mg:

and ive got to say it was hard work!

I don't think you realise how much strength and fitness you lose over time. Im not going to post the weights lifted as quite frankly they were diabolical :laugh:

Tuesday 23/02/10

Upper

BB Incline Bench

BB Push Presses

DB Rows

DB Shrugs

BB Curls

---------------------------

Session notes -

My god that was hard work but i somewhat expected it to be. Onwards and upwards to the next session tomorrow.


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## Si Train (Jul 21, 2009)

Good luck with your goals diet looks really good so I'm sure you'll be back in shape in no time


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Sim6 said:


> Good luck with your goals diet looks really good so I'm sure you'll be back in shape in no time


Thanks for the support mate, appreciated :thumbup1:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Woke up this morning to some right DOMS in my arms and chest, not sure ive missed them or not :blink:

Anyway Lower session in a bit, looking forward to squatting again, should be fun


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

dax said:


> OK first session in the gym today in 11 months...... mg:
> 
> and ive got to say it was hard work!
> 
> ...


Alright mate, good for you for getting abck into it, and get the weights up we ain't gonna laugh at you. Plus if you're keeping track of your weights then when the journal gets to a 100 pages then you can look back and see how much you've progressed.

Will keep dipping my toe in here and there and see how you're getting on.

Dan


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> Alright mate, good for you for getting abck into it, and get the weights up we ain't gonna laugh at you. Plus if you're keeping track of your weights then when the journal gets to a 100 pages then you can look back and see how much you've progressed.
> 
> Will keep dipping my toe in here and there and see how you're getting on.
> 
> Dan


Hi mate, thanks for popping in. Yeah your right, i'll start logging weights from next week. Just feel so frickin weak compared to when i last trained lol.


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

don't worry about it mate, you're journal is for you to keep track of your progress anyway.

Can I suggest that you keep a list of your current weights in your first or second post too mate, again when you get alot of replies in your thread then it takes time to find the last session, so I have found it handy to have my current weights always on my first post of my journal. :thumb:


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

dax said:


> Woke up this morning to some right DOMS in my arms and chest, not sure ive missed them or not :blink:
> 
> Anyway Lower session in a bit, looking forward to squatting again, should be fun


See how you feel concerning your DOMS when doing upper body next mate, 3 day gap between upper body considering your hitting the same muscle group may not be enough recovery time. Same goes for your legs as well.

I would personally go back to a standard one body part per week.

Well done though on getting back on track :thumb:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> don't worry about it mate, you're journal is for you to keep track of your progress anyway.
> 
> *Can I suggest that you keep a list of your current weights in your first or second post too mate,* again when you get alot of replies in your thread then it takes time to find the last session, so I have found it handy to have my current weights always on my first post of my journal. :thumb:


Good idea mate, will get that sorted.


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Dagman72 said:


> See how you feel concerning your DOMS when doing upper body next mate, 3 day gap between upper body considering your hitting the same muscle group may not be enough recovery time. Same goes for your legs as well.
> 
> I would personally go back to a standard one body part per week.
> 
> Well done though on getting back on track :thumb:


Thanks mate, yeah i hear what your saying about the DOMS thing, i'll see how i feel before the next session, im slightly crippled today lol from yesterdays session but i was expecting to be aching after not doing anything for months. As i say i'll monitor how i feel and adjust the routine if it becomes to much.

Thanks for popping in:thumbup1:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Thursday 25/02/10

Lower

Squats

RDL

Leg Extensions

Calf Raises

All 4 x 10 reps

-----------------------------------

Session notes -

Legs held up quite well considering ive not trained them for months. Just stuck with low weights though as its the first time doing them for a while.

Still got some right DOMS in my arms, pecs and back from the other day so im gonna do the next Upper session over the weekend.

Diets been spot on and im really enjoying eating some decent food for a change.

*Diet today -*

Wake* -* Scoop of Whey

9am* -* Oats, 4 whole eggs, scoop of Whey, multi vits etc

10.30am* -* Train

11.30am PWO shake* -* whey, malto, creatine

12.30pm PWO meal* -* chicken, Basmati rice, Mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

4pm* -* Tuna, Tomatoe pasta, Mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

will be -

7pm* -* Large Chicken salad, EVOO and balsamic vinegar dressing

Pre-Bed* -* Tub of Quark, white choc flavoring, EVOO


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Saturday 27/02/10

Lower

Warm Up

Leg Press

4 x 10 - 80kg

Ham Curls

4 x 10 - 30kg

Leg extensions

4 x 10 - 45kg

Calf Raises

4 x 12 - 80kg

Cardio - 20 mins treadmill.

-----------------------------

Session Notes -

Upper body stiil got DOMS (but not to bad now) so decided to do a Lower session. Weights kept low but felt good.

Upper session tomorrow 

Diet

Wake* -* Scoop of Whey

9am* -* Oats, 4 whole eggs, scoop of Whey, multi vits etc

10.30am* -* Train

11.30am PWO shake* -* whey, malto, creatine

12.30pm PWO meal* -* Tuna, Basmati rice, Mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

will be -

4pm* -* chicken on wholemeal bread, Mixed salad, EVOO and balsamic vinegar dressing

7pm* -* Homemade meat balls and tomato pasta, salad, EVOO and balsamic vinegar dressing

Pre-Bed* -* Tub of Quark, white choc flavoring, EVOO


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Sunday 28/02/10

Upper

Warm up

Incline DB Bench

4 x 8 - 16kg (absolutley woefull, utter b0llocks) :cursing:

BB Push Presses

4 x 10 - 25kg

Underhand pulldowns

4 x 10 - 40kg

Cable Rows

4 x 10 40kg

Tri Pushdowns

4 x 10 - 35kg

Cardio - 23 mins treadmill.

-----------------------------

Session Notes -

I hate bench pressing :cursing: , ive never liked or been good at it and today has really p1ssed me off. Just NO strength on it at all. Oh well maybe next time it will be better.

Diet

Wake* -* Scoop of Whey

9am* -* Oats, 4 whole eggs, scoop of Whey, multi vits etc

10.30am* -* Train

11.30am PWO shake* -* whey, malto, creatine

12.30pm PWO meal* -* Tuna, Basmati rice, Mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

will be -

4pm* -* chicken, sweet Pots, Mixed salad, EVOO and balsamic vinegar dressing

7pm* -* paella, salad, EVOO and balsamic vinegar dressing

Pre-Bed* -* Tub of Quark, white choc flavoring, EVOO

Rest day tomorrow, just some cardio me thinks


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

Alright mate, don't get too stressed out about the weights you're moving. Anything is better than nothing.

I was doing 3 sets of 10 reps ( I was doing that if I could get to 12 then I would increase the weight until I can only do 6 or 8 and work my way back up again.) I have now just recently switched to 5 sets of 5 reps, an example of the difference is that my max on leg extensions when doing 10 reps was 72.5kg and that was proper struggling, immediately upon switching down to only 5 reps I managed to increase upto 102.5kg.

5x5 should help to increase strength more than 10's will because you're able to move heavier weights. You might want to try that for a few weeks and see how you get on?

Other than that, just stick at it and you will get stronger, just takes a while thats all mate.


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

i've just started back after a long layoff, do not ego train, feel the muscle working, and post some pics up


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> Alright mate, don't get too stressed out about the weights you're moving. Anything is better than nothing.
> 
> I was doing 3 sets of 10 reps ( I was doing that if I could get to 12 then I would increase the weight until I can only do 6 or 8 and work my way back up again.) I have now just recently switched to 5 sets of 5 reps, an example of the difference is that my max on leg extensions when doing 10 reps was 72.5kg and that was proper struggling, immediately upon switching down to only 5 reps I managed to increase upto 102.5kg.
> 
> ...


Hi mate

yeah i might try the 5 x 5 on the bigger lifts (bench etc) for a few weeks to see if i can get some strength back. I know it takes time to get back into it and re-gain some strength its just a bit dis-heartening lifting such puny weights lol. I'll get there though :thumbup1:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Khaos said:


> i've just started back after a long layoff, do not ego train, feel the muscle working, and post some pics up


Hi Khaos, im certainly not going to ego train mate, not with the weights im currently lifting :lol:

But i know what your saying, im looking for muscle gains not to be the strongest person in the gym so i'll keep the form good, one thing i may have been lacking somewhat in the past maybe.

thanks for popping in


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

OK, today was a rest day, did some cardio though, nothing to energetic just 25 mins on the treadmill. I have to say i used to hate cardio but this time round im actually quite enjoying it which is good.

Upper session tomorrow


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

dax said:


> but this time round im actually quite enjoying it which is good.


Doubt that enjoyment will last mate haha


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## nothing2fear (Jul 7, 2007)

dax said:


> Hi mate, thanks for popping in. Yeah your right, i'll start logging weights from next week. *Just feel so frickin weak compared to when i last trained lol.*


I was away from training last year for nearly a year, become a bloated and then went on a keto diet towards the latter part of last year. Needless to say ive been starting from scratch too mate; weights are irrelevant, its how you feel/look that counts.

Stick your weights up as a log for yourself more than anything, mine are pretty terrible so I really wouldnt worry lol

Will keep popping past


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

As they say 'leave your ego at the door' - how you coping with the DOMS now?


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> Doubt that enjoyment will last mate haha


LOL, yeah it normally last about 2 weeks and then i start detesting it, we'll see i guess :laugh:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

nothing2fear said:


> I was away from training last year for nearly a year, become a bloated and then went on a keto diet towards the latter part of last year. Needless to say ive been starting from scratch too mate; weights are irrelevant, its how you feel/look that counts.
> 
> *Stick your weights up as a log for yourself more than anything, mine are pretty terrible so I really wouldnt worry lol*
> 
> Will keep popping past


LOL, can't be any worst then mine mate, but yeah i know what your saying, i'll be posting the weights lifted from now properly. Thanks for dropping by :thumbup1:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Dagman72 said:


> As they say 'leave your ego at the door' - how you coping with the DOMS now?


DOMS, well, to be honest they've been pretty bad, mostly in my arms and legs. Hopefully they will subside a bit once ive been back lifting for a few weeks. All ok today though so will be doing an upper session in a bit.


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## nothing2fear (Jul 7, 2007)

I must be an odd ball but I love doms :S lol


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

nothing2fear said:


> I must be an odd ball but I love doms :S lol


Yeah i used to quite like them as well after a hard session but these DOMS have been BAAAAAAAAAD! lol :lol:


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

nothing2fear said:


> I must be an odd ball but I love doms :S lol


Nothing odd about it 

Did legs last night and will probably be sore for the next few days, there is no way I could do another leg workout until next week.

Dax hits his twice a week, that is why I asked about his DOMS.

I would rather recover fully before hitting that muscle again directly.


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## Leiela (Feb 14, 2010)

dax said:


> Sunday 28/02/10
> 
> -----------------------------
> 
> ...


haha don't worry your not alone, my bench is woeful too  even for a girl it's pretty pathetic.


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Leiela said:


> haha don't worry your not alone, my bench is woeful too  even for a girl it's pretty pathetic.


LOL, yeah, i just don't think im made for benching to be honest, long arms and all, have always struggled with it. :thumbdown:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

*Wednesday 03/03/10*

*Upper*

Underhand Pulldowns

40kg 3 x 8

45kg 1 x 8

Cable Rows

50kg 1 x 8

60kg 2 x 8

65kg 1 x 8

DB Rows

20kg 4 x 8

BB Shrugs

40kg 1 x 8

50kg 3 x 8

DB Hammers

12kg 4 x 8

BB Curls

20kg 3 x 8

--------------------------------

Session notes -

Well didn't exactly stick to my routine today, i got in the gym and they were messing about with all the benches (health and safety or something) so i decided to do a bit of back and bi's and im glad i did. Felt really good today in the gym, need to increase most of the weights lifted which is good news :thumbup1:

Legs tomorrow 

Diet

Wake - Scoop of Whey

9am - Oats, 4 whole eggs, scoop of Whey, multi vits etc

11am - Tuna, basmati rice, mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

1.30pm - Train

3pm (approx) PWO shake - whey, malto, creatine

4pm PWO meal - chicken, potatoes, mixed veg (broccoli, carrots, peppers, green beans)

7pm - Beef mince, small amount of pasta, salad

Pre-Bed - Tub of Quark, white choc flavoring, EVOO


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

I see you're having quark mate, guess you don't like cottage cheese either then buddy?

And its no good saying the weights need to increase, just get em increased!! :thumb:

keep at it mate, you look like you've got some decent size in your arms, and your chest looks better than mine does. A few more weeks and you'll be chucking loads more weight on them exercises.


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> I see you're having quark mate, guess you don't like cottage cheese either then buddy?
> 
> And its no good saying the weights need to increase, just get em increased!! :thumb:
> 
> *keep at it mate, you look like you've got some decent size in your arms, and your chest looks better than mine does. A few more weeks and you'll be chucking loads more weight on them exercises*.


Thanks mate, yeah im hoping weights will increase a fair bit once im fully back in the swing of things. Yeah i wasn't to bad in the avi pic, trouble is its an old one from when i was training before, im about 2 1/2 stone lighter now lol :sad:

Love quark / HATE cottage cheese :laugh:

Nah, some cottage cheese on a baked spud is ok but other than that, cant stand the stuff.

Weights will be increased in the next session thats for sure :thumbup1:


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

ah right cool, I just hate the texture of cottage cheese blurgh! Quarks ok when mixed with some protein powder though.

I've been really impressed with the 5x5 split (thanks to d4ead for suggesting it) as weights keep going up each session so must be doing some good. Maybe give it a go mate and see if you like it better than the 3 x 8's


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> ah right cool, I just hate the texture of cottage cheese blurgh! Quarks ok when mixed with some protein powder though.


Yeah i really like quark to be honest, i blend 1 tub with approx 200ml milk and add in some "Options" white choc powder and some extra virgin olive oil. Tastes mighty nice 



vsideboy said:


> I've been really impressed with the 5x5 split (thanks to d4ead for suggesting it) as weights keep going up each session so must be doing some good. Maybe give it a go mate and see if you like it better than the 3 x 8's


 I think im gonna try the 5 x 5 on the big lifts from next week, (bench, deads etc)


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

*Thursday 04/03/10*

*
*

*
**Lower (legs)*

Leg Press

warm up 40kg 2 x 8

70kg 1 x 10

90kg 1 x 10

110kg 1 x 10

110kg 1 x 10

Ham Curls

30kg 4 x 10

Leg Extensions

35kg 1 x 10

40kg 1 x 10

45kg 1 x 10

45kg 1 x 10

Calf Raises

4 x 10 - 80kg

----------------------------------

*Session Notes -*

Strength well up on leg press this time around, the rest was about the same. Ok session though. Im gonna change my routine though from next week (see below)

*Diet*

Wake - Scoop of Whey

9am - weetabix, 4 whole eggs, scoop of Whey, multi vits etc

11.30am - Tuna, basmati rice, mixed veg

1.45pm - Train

3pm (approx) PWO shake - whey (run outta malto and creatine)

4pm PWO meal - chicken, pasta, mixed veg

Will be -

7pm - chicken, basmati rice, salad

Pre-Bed - Tub of Quark, white choc flavoring, EVOO


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

So, ive decided to drop my current routine as its probely a little to much at this stage, ive had DOMS for virtually 2 weeks now in one body part or another :laugh:

Im gonna crack on with the one below for a few weeks and hit each body part hard once per week, try and build up a bit of strength again then i may try my original routine out once ive got some strength back and my recovery time had dropped a bit. :thumbup1:

So fellas wadda you think of this -

*Monday - Back*

Deads

BB / DB Rows

Low Cable Rows

Pulldowns or chins

Shrugs

*
Tuesday - Chest & Bi's*

Flat bench

Inc bench

Flys

Dips

BB curls

DB Hammers

*Wednesday - Off / Cardio*

*Thursday - Shoulders / Tri's*

Mil Press or Push press

Lateral raises

Rear flys or Facepulls

CGBP

Overhead DB Extensions

*
Friday - Legs*

Squats

Legs press

RDL or SLDL

Calf raises

Anything anyone would add or take away?

The plan is to start it from monday.


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

If it was me mate I'd try to rearrange it a bit differently. If you're doing heavy weights on back on monday then you're Bi's are gonna take a beating on that, then you're gonna work on bi's again on tuesday (same with chest and tris), Think if you're gonna keep it the way it is I'd try to keep 2 or 3 days between back and bi's and chest and tri's.

Maybe do back, shoulders, rest, legs, chest or something like that?

upto you at the end of the day though mate, but if you've still got doms 2 weeks after training then do you really wanna hit bi's 2 days running?


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

*Monday 08/03/10*

*Back*

*
*

*Deads*

40kg 2 x 8

60kg 1 x 8

80kg 2 x 8 (easy)

*DB Rows*

20kg 4 x 8

*
Low Cable Rows*

50kg 1 x 8

60kg 1 x 8

65kg 2 x 8

*
Underhand Pulldowns*

40kg 3 x 8

45kg 1 x 8

*Shrugs*

40kg 1 x 8

50kg 3 x 8

*----------------------------------*

*
Session Notes -*

Mega quick session, same weights as last week, just had to get in and out without thinking to much lol. Will be better next week. Felt good to be doing deads again


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

*Tuesday 09/03/10*

*Chest & Bi's*

*
*

*
BB Inc bench*

40kg 4 x 8

*Flat bench DB's*

16kg 4 x 8

*Flys*

10kg 4 x 8

*BB curls*

20kg 4 x 8

*DB Hammers*

12kg 4 x 8

---------------------------------

*Session Notes -*

Same as above, im mega busy at work this week and just about managing to get a session in. Crappy weights on bench but im not expecting any more, im sh1t at bench and hate it TBH lol. Hopefully be better next week. :thumbup1:


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

dax said:


> *Shrugs*
> 
> 50kg 3 x 8


hmm looks like you could've gone to 55 or 60 for 5 reps matey.

I think I will write on your exercise book in red pen

MUST TRY HARDER!

:thumb:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> If it was me mate I'd try to rearrange it a bit differently. If you're doing heavy weights on back on monday then you're Bi's are gonna take a beating on that, then you're gonna work on bi's again on tuesday (same with chest and tris), Think if you're gonna keep it the way it is I'd try to keep 2 or 3 days between back and bi's and chest and tri's.
> 
> Maybe do back, shoulders, rest, legs, chest or something like that?
> 
> upto you at the end of the day though mate, but if you've still got doms 2 weeks after training then do you really wanna hit bi's 2 days running?


Thanks mate, im usually ok with bi's after back but i'll keep it in mind if it becomes a problem :thumbup1:


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

vsideboy said:


> hmm looks like you could've gone to 55 or 60 for 5 reps matey.
> 
> I think I will write on your exercise book in red pen
> 
> ...


LOL, i think your right, just didnt have the time today, probely could have done 60 x 8 to be honest or more on last set but i'll save that for next week when ive got time to think lol


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

well mine was crap today too mate, so I will let you off.


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## dax (Jul 25, 2009)

Sorry for the lack of updates guys, my internet connection has been very intermitant over the last week so posting anything has been pretty much a non starter (thanks a lot BT) lol

Anyway, have still been training, shoulders last week was, errrm, a bit crappy but legs were ok. Did back today which was pretty much the same as last week, although im feeling a lot stronger than a couple of weeks ago which is a good sign. Time to push on next week with the weights lifted.

Diets been good apart from the odd bit of crap (sweet stuff mainly)

Need some more whey soon, have been thinking of maybe giving BCAA's / EAA's a go instead as ive heard good things about them.

I'll try and post as much as possible this week its just hard as my internet connection is very hit and miss and will be until BT sort there head out lol


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## vsideboy (Feb 3, 2009)

dax said:


> Need some more whey soon, have been thinking of maybe giving BCAA's / EAA's a go instead as ive heard good things about them.


eh? Instead?

Usually its both together rather than 1 instead of the other mate.

My ON 100% whey has bcaa's in it already so I'm not taking any seperately. Other than it being a little more expensive than the myprotein or bulkpowders stuff I have had no problems with the ON stuff. Tastes great, mixes great, compared with boditronics and reflex whey it is alot better in my opinion.


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