# Need 2 Slin - anyone rate it?



## Metzer (Jun 20, 2011)

Cant seem to find too many reviews on this..Supposed to reduce the amount of carbs getting absorbed by messing with insulin levels or something...wouldnt mind giving this a go but its pretty expensive, anyone have any feedback on it?

Cheers


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

buy metformin from unitedpharmacies.co.uk

works properly. I"m not even going to bother commenting on the efficacy of the product you mention... not worth the keystrokes..


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## Metzer (Jun 20, 2011)

Thought it was pricey for a reason! Read 1-2 good reviews online, but not many reviews going around tbh,

Cheers I'll take a look at that, althought I'm a bit hesitant to buy diabetic medication lol! Even though N2Slin probably works in the same way maybe (or not)


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Cheap as chips aswell


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bashman said:


> I've read a few of your posts on metformin. Is it something you use regularly throughout the year? I've been considering use during an oral cycle.


its useful from an anti-aging/longevity perspective- has the same life extension benefits as a 30% calorie reduction according to studies..

No problems running it long term, its designed for this pupose, and it can help keep you a touch leaner if you eat carbs regularly (but it won't help if you constantly overeat desert etc! LOL its not magic) as it makes your body sensitive to insulin, so you dont over produce insulin in response to carb intake, so you dont load as much carbs into fat cells.. (simple version).

metformin use is unrelated to AAS use, as in its no more benefit on or of cycle, its to do with how you partition your carb intake. If you're eating under 100g/day carbs, then its really not required.

I dont use it much anymore as I tend to sit on 50-70g carbs/day these days.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bashman said:


> Could I ask your opinion on its ability to inhibit IGF-1. I read about a study of diabetic women being treated for breast cancer, taking metformin have a dramatic increase to their response to chemotherapy. I guess this would also be dependant on how IGF-1 levels differ between men and women. I'd think BBr's obviously have higher levels, meaning metformin would cause a greater decrease and be detremental to gains?


the issue is... metformin decreases insulin release, so thats good from a keeping lean perspective...

but I hear you say, what about all the BBs who use inject EXTRA slin? they get massive right? correct! and part of the reason is, 2 things increase IGF-1 sythesis... high oestrogen levels... and high insulin levels...

now if you're a bulking BB... taking loads of AAS, you have a choice of taking an AI (like arimidex) or a SERM like Nolvadex... the correct choice when bulking is Nolvadex- its allows a high build up oestrogen (from aromatisation of test) but prevents gyno as it binds at the breast tissue at the oetrogen receptors.. however, as it allows high levels of oestrogen, it also allows high levels of IGF-1...

Now looking at the study you mention, the treatment for breast cancer (apart from chemo/surgery) is also an AI- which reduces oestrogen (as breast cancer is oestrogen dependent).. so was it the metformin that lowered the IGF-1 levels, or a combination of metformin and reduced oestrogen levels??? (my bet). As a result I think met has a marginal effect on IGF-1 levels on its own..

Insulin on the other hand really bumps up IGF-1 production in the liver... and taking met reduces insulin secretion...

so there you go.. the answer is there is no good/bad drug/hormone, it depends on your goals... keeping lean, and growing muscle are 2 different goals...

of course I dieted using 'slin.... and GH, and over 2g of test (as well as other anabolics, and 150mg/day oxy 50s- and oral anabolics also increase IGF-1 production inthe liver).. so I think i overcame some of the usual issues.. but it took a wide range of drugs! LOL


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Metzer said:


> Cant seem to find too many reviews on this..Supposed to reduce the amount of carbs getting absorbed by messing with insulin levels or something...wouldnt mind giving this a go but its pretty expensive, anyone have any feedback on it?
> 
> Cheers


It controls insulin levels and serves a nutrient partitioner by pushing carbs into muscle cells for storage (this is where the swell effect can come from).

I believ a long time ago I have crossed swords with Ausbuilt on this so am not going to get bogged down but I use it as a staple and if you wish to form your own conclusion below is some stuff for when you are bored 

This is a link to an interview with the Russian who created the product for Need2BuildMuscle, about it :-

http://itunes.apple.com/u...uman-radio/id133505292

Regards Insulin - here is an experiment someone carried out:-

NEED2SLIN - BLOOD SUGAR EXPERIMENT

INGREDIANTS:

1) 450mg gymnema sylvestre

2) 250mg Acetyl L-carnatine

3) 200mg NaR-ALA (NaR alpha lipoic acid)

4) 200mg L-norvaline

5) 90mg Coleus forskholi

6) 30mg synephrine HCI

7) 18mg Banaba leaf

Purpose:

What I expect from N2S is to create a larger than normal insulin release after intake of carbs and sugars. This insulin release is highly desired in bodybuilding b/c insulin helps shuttle nutrients and carbohydrates directly to the muscles for immediate repair. The reason it is advantageous to intake glucose (sugar) in what ever form you want after working out is because of the insulin response that follows. The reason insulin is released after drinking a sugary beverage is that this released works to lower your blood sugar levels and keep you within the normal range. Our body is constantly trying to maintain homeostasis, or internal equilibrium, hence the insulin spike.

insulin also "rapidly activates Protein synthesis by mRNA translation, the process through which the genetic code transcribed in the mRNA template is translated into Protein." This is fairly complicated so if you want to read more on this then Google it.

Experiment:

(Day 1) I will fast for a least 8 hours while I sleep and in the morning I will take my fasted blood sugar (one of 4 readings). I will then eat a wheat bagel (about 60 carbs) and drink about 9oz of Grape Juice (50 carbs/sugars) since both of these are fast acting carbohydrates. After I down I will take my blood sugar readings at 30 mins, 1 hr, and 1.5 hrs and record the results.

(Day 2) I will do the exact same thing as above but this time I will take N2Slin at a dosage of 3 capsules 35 minutes before eating the bagel then follow the protocol listed on Day 1.

(Day 3) I will do the exact same thing as above but this time I will take some supplements that should have a positive effect on my blood sugar profile about 35 minutes prior to eating the bagel and record the results as above. The supplements I will take are Chromium Picolinate (100mg), Gymnema (400mg), Alpha Lipoic Acid (200mg), & Cinnamon (1/4 teaspoon); all of which are supposed to either promote increased insulin cell binding, increase natural production of insulin at the periphery level, or increase the secretion of insulin at the pancreas.

(Day 4) This was added after the Conclusion in the Addendum section.

Results:

In my research of supplements that have the BEST potential to lower blood sugar/raise insulin I came across a few supplements that I assumed would be most effective for these purposes. The supplements used on Day 3 of this experiment are the ones that looked the most promising (Chromium Picolinate, Gymnema, Alpha Lipoic Acid [ALA], & Cinnamon). Two out of the 4 supplements I chose to use are in Need2Slin. The other ingredients in N2Slin are mentioned in some cases when and insulin response is desired but that is one of the reasons for this test, to determine if N2Slin is effective. From what I can tell Need2 has done a lot of research to put this product together and I am very interested in the results.

For this test I was able to borrow a blood monitor from my father who is diabetic (another reason for my interest in this product) and use it to test my blood glucose levels. These tests were conducted at the same time of the morning every day and I tried to be as symmetrical with everything I did every day for the most accurate results possible.

Day 1:

Fasting - 83 mg/dl

*now I down the bagel and grape juice

0.5 hr - 180 mg/dl

1.0 hr - 161 mg/dl

1.5 hr - 106 mg/dl

Note**About 30 minutes after ingesting the bagel and grape juice I got his overwhelming lethargic feeling as well as slightly blurred vision, and this lasted until my blood sugar dropped below 160. Injesting these two things may not do this to some people but I generally stay away from a lot of sugar so I was not used to this feeling at all but did recall on a couple occasions feeling this way.

Day 2:

Fasting - 87 mg/dl

*take Need2Slin 35 minutes before ingesting the carbs

*down the bagel and grape juice

0.5 hr - 145 mg/dl

1.0 hr - 129 mg/dl

1.5 hr - 84 mg/dl

Note**I am very impressed with the results of N2Slin so far. I didn't get any of the symptoms from yesterday when ingesting the large quantity of carbs. I may duplicate the tests of Day 2 and see if I come up with the same results in a later post. Need2Slin has definitely increased the amount of insulin in response to the sugar level in my body. It will be interesting to see how the herbs and supps I will use tomorrow stack up.

Day 3:

Fasting - 86 mg/dl

*take chosen Supps 35 minutes before ingesting the carbs

*down the bagel and grape juice

0.5 hr - 164 mg/dl

1.0 hr - 148 mg/dl

1.5 hr - 97 mg/dl

Note**Although I didn't have any of the same lethargy as on Day 1, I didn't feel as energetic as I did yesterday (Day 2) after taking the hand picked herbs and supplements.

Day 4:

See results of Day 4 after the Conclusion in the Addendum...

Conclusion:

Based on the results of Day 3, Need2Slin has proven itself to be even more effective than the hand picked supplements (chosen specifically for the purpose of increasing insulin response) that I thought might be more effective than Need2Slin based on the research I have done. Need2Slin is a very impressive supplement not only for the energetic feeling you get after a large meal with N2Slin, but in the fact that the blood results in this study were not even close!!

I would like to further note that this study was done solely out of my curiosity of the performance of this product as well as looking for a product that my father (Type 2 diabetic) can take to lower his blood sugar. I have no motive to advertise for Need2. I have used this product once before about a year ago where I noticed a better pump in the gym and a leaner look even on a high calorie diet. I wanted to put it to the test and see if it was worth spending the bucks for this product. Unlike other products where you simply have to 'believe' it's doing what it says, this type of supplement you can actually 'TEST' to see if it's doing what it's supposed to do!!

The 3 most anabolic compounds in the world of bodybuilding are AAS, GH, and insulin. If you can take a natural supplement like Need2Slin and increase the production of insulin within your own body then why take the risk of damaging your body by injecting insulin? Bodybuilders who understand how to use insulin properly can get away with this but for anyone that doesn't fully understand how to use it safely and is on the fence with whether they should use it or not, please start with a supplement like this that will not damage your body and will give you the effect you are looking for.

-----------------------------------------------------

Addendum:

Today I wanted to make sure that the results I got the first day I used N2Slin were not a fluke. I only did one test on it and it made me wonder if those results would be replicated if I tested again.

Day 4: (final test)

Fasting - 78 mg/dl

*take Need2Slin 35 minutes before ingesting the carbs

*down the bagel and grape juice

0.5 hr - 139 mg/dl

1.0 hr - 125 mg/dl

1.5 hr - 83 mg/dl

Note**My blood sugar started out lower this morning than usual maybe due to a clean diet yesterday and taking a couple N2Slin before dinner last night... Based on the results from today I am confident that N2Slin is controlling my blood sugar by raising my insulin levels! It's almost scary how close the numbers were from the first test. If I had started the test with a fasting blood sugar of 87 today, I do feel that the numbers I got on the first day using N2S would be even closer.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

are you american or english? Did you do your "experiment" in the UK or the USA?

oh wait.. thats not your experiment... its an american one, as they are measuring BG in mg/DL not mmol/L like uk BG meters..


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

why would you buy it thought when metaformin does a much better job at doing the same thing for 10x less? need2getrippedoff snake_oil edition.


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> are you american or english? Did you do your "experiment" in the UK or the USA?
> 
> oh wait.. thats not your experiment... its an american one, as they are measuring BG in mg/DL not mmol/L like uk BG meters..


Aus if you were eating say 250g-300g a day carbs would metformin be beneficial? And how would you take it?

Cheers


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Zangief said:


> why would you buy it thought when metaformin does a much better job at doing the same thing for 10x less? need2getrippedoff snake_oil edition.


same reason why many people buy otc and not POM/underground. easy to buy etc... not everyone feels comfortable/safe buying from prescription sites.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> are you american or english? Did you do your "experiment" in the UK or the USA?
> 
> oh wait.. thats not your experiment... its an american one, as they are measuring BG in mg/DL not mmol/L like uk BG meters..


See no relevance.

Bud - have already said not looking to draw swords, I thought I would give the OP some info supporting the product or giving prospective pro's for it. They can then with the 'balance' you have provided already and others may chip in with after come to their own conclusion on the worth of it.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jw390898 said:


> See no relevance.
> 
> Bud - have already said not looking to draw swords, I thought I would give the OP some info supporting the product or giving prospective pro's for it. They can then with the 'balance' you have provided already and others may chip in with after come to their own conclusion on the worth of it.


mate there's only one problem:

1. Your premise is that the product increases insulin secretion, with the benefit of more nutrients in the muscle.

However, you then post an "experiment" from an american site, that immediately demonstrates that the both you and the original experimenter do not understand how insulin and BG levels work.

Over the four "experiments" downing the grape juice and bagel, the peak BG reading decreased, and following readings increased. This indicates that there was LESS insulin secreted, as it took the body longer to move the glucose out of the blood into the muscle and liver- this is what happens with type 2 diabetes.

If you injected insulin, the BG readings would drop FAST... and be lower than normal...

If you took metformin, the BG readins would also drop fast, and not reach as high a peak reading becuase metformin makes your body more sensitive to the insulin released, so that glucose is cleared faster with less insulin...

So what the above "experiment" tells me.. is the product makes your body work as if you are approaching type 2 diabetes...

while there may have been an initial drop using the product in the first measurement, the 2nd measurement was higher, then the longer measurement was lower... seems inconclusive at best, but more likely that its making you more resistant to 'slin...


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

^but day 4 is the lowest BM yet? doesnt that mean it is working to lower blood glucose, not raise it like in type 2 DM?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> ^but day 4 is the lowest BM yet? doesnt that mean it is working to lower blood glucose, not raise it like in type 2 DM?


Yes it does.

It also needs to be considered this was not done by NTBM, the creator or anybody else connected but a forum member who was curious.


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

Jw your involved with the product in some way & your always posting how good it is, how can anyone take your opinions seriously?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Zangief said:


> Jw your involved with the product in some way & your always posting how good it is, how can anyone take your opinions seriously?


I represent the company which produces it and so yes by all means be sceptical - same goes with any rep or person with a vested interest in something!?

My argument remains consistent when anyone challenges the legitimacy of my claims or posts about a product though which is that as a rep for NTBM I receive products/store credit each month and this is to be there answering questions and increasing brand awareness of the product line. Now this thread I have not told anybody they should buy it I have given reasons for them to consider using it and provided info relating to the supplement to enable them to form their own opinion.

I like the product and genuinely am running it now with another bottle stashed waiting for when this runs out - I use it as I like it. I represent the company as I like their products and am therefore gratefull to receive their goods for effectively free as I would no doubt be on the forums as I was before being a rep regardless of the role. If I thought all their stuff was krap I would not spend my time answering posts relating to them only to receive stuff I thought was garbage - be no point.

The more frequent forum members of sections where I tend to be more involved I think will be able to determine for their selves if I am simply pimping the product line or helping and if and when the two come together then making reference.

I get pm's from people daily who must read my advice in the PH section and ask for assistance in putting together their cycle or dosing etc and so on and maybe 1 in 10 of these involves a NTBM (or Iron Science) product but I still take the time to assist and give my input.

As ever in life people need to form their own opinion and decide what they do an do ont feel comfortable with and I hold no resentment if somebody questions my advice or posts for any reason, as you are here.


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> buy metformin from unitedpharmacies.co.uk
> 
> works properly. I"m not even going to bother commenting on the efficacy of the product you mention... not worth the keystrokes..


You know that metformin lowers test levels?


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

Good read about Need2Slin with a lot of good/interesting informations: http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/What-is-the-score-with-GlycobolInsulin-Mimickers-m4359365.aspx


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

JayJo your also involved with this product so your posts are equally useless. Waste of money end of story


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

Zangief said:


> JayJo your also involved with this product so your posts are equally useless. Waste of money end of story


To each his own, but does this change the facts/science in the thread on muscletalk? ;-)


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Zangief said:


> JayJo your also involved with this product so your posts are equally useless. Waste of money end of story


That sort of statement with a display of nothing but flippancy is of no use in itself and all the more worthless or has that irony been lost?

You are entitled to dislike a product and comment so but provide an explanation and a basis for debate and a sensible discussion can pursue.


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## bdcc (Aug 15, 2011)

I appreciate that people have skepticism of a company rep's views. I am a company rep and expect people to be skeptical of my views. It also makes sense than opposing views are also not narrow minded otherwise it is just as unhelpful.

Here is my view, for a little healthy discussion. Need2Slin on paper looks very powerful. I have not tried it and after my run with HCGenerate I would be very reluctant to spend the money on it.

I personally would not use it regularly for muscle building because of the MOA of gymnema. Anything that blocks absorption of carbohydrates is essentially mitigating some of the caloric intake you have consumed. I would suggest best use would be for people cutting and displaying a level of insulin resistance. If I was 20% body fat and stored it all around my suprailiac I would go nuts with it. If I was 8% and trying to build muscle I would avoid it unless I ate something I didn't want the carbohydrate intake from.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

bdcc said:


> I appreciate that people have skepticism of a company rep's views. I am a company rep and expect people to be skeptical of my views. It also makes sense than opposing views are also not narrow minded otherwise it is just as unhelpful.
> 
> Here is my view, for a little healthy discussion. Need2Slin on paper looks very powerful. I have not tried it and after my run with HCGenerate I would be very reluctant to spend the money on it.
> 
> I personally would not use it regularly for muscle building because of the MOA of gymnema. Anything that blocks absorption of carbohydrates is essentially mitigating some of the caloric intake you have consumed. I would suggest best use would be for people cutting and displaying a level of insulin resistance. If I was 20% body fat and stored it all around my suprailiac I would go nuts with it. If I was 8% and trying to build muscle I would avoid it unless I ate something I didn't want the carbohydrate intake from.


Nice post.

I agree that cutting/recoming is the optimal time to go nuts with this.


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## Coop (Sep 8, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> buy metformin from unitedpharmacies.co.uk
> 
> works properly. I"m not even going to bother commenting on the efficacy of the product you mention... not worth the keystrokes..


That's a good site, some interesting weight loss products on there, fancy trying zevert 16 they sell on there, average weight loss of 1.5kg per week, any experiences?


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