# Beginer anavar cycle advice (eventually with log/results/experiances)



## Stebo

First of all, go easy on me - new round these parts! 

I've been training on and off for 4/5 years and have gotten serious about it for two years now. I have never had any issues with using AAS appart from lack of information and have been researching them for about 6 months now and feel I am ready to take my research into the field so to speak :laugh:

I have decided to do an oral only anavar cycle. Right away from my research i know there will be people jumping up and down to suggest firing a bit of test along side it. I do believe what these people are saying and know it's only to help but I would prefere this thread not to get into a debate about that. There are several reasons for going for anavar and oral only. Firstly, this cycle's goal is not really that much about physically bettering my body (that will come with time), but to see how my body reacts to AAS. Also regarding not injecting, I personally don't mind but there is a stigma attached to injecting which "er indoors" would object to. When I do an oral cycle and everything is 100% things will be easier to justify down the line. Not that she really matters that much, but it just makes life easier. Anyway, that's that out of the road, onto the cycle.

I am thinking (and have ordered) the following:

Anavar 50mg ED Weeks 1-8

Proviron 25mg ED Weeks 3-8 (only if things downstairs go pear shaped)

Clomid 50mg ED Weeks 9-11

I would just be interested to hear your expert views and opinions on this, considering my goals are not to build alot of mass. I would be happy if I was to lean up a bit while on this cycle but in my opinion it will be a success if I keep feeling 100% the whole way through it.

Basically the questions I have are:

- do you think clomid is the right choice for PCT

- should I take proviron regardless of the libido condition (I was hoping to stick to anavar so that if something strange started I would know what was causing it) or will I know withing 2 weeks what sides anavar has on me and can then put everything else down to the proviron.

- I would also love to hear from anybody else who has actually ran a similar cycle, what were the sides/results like

- also is it better to bulk/cut while on this (even though I'm not expecting much either way) or does it not matter, currently cutting down a bit before I start the cycle.

Also it's it okay to name the lab that the pills are so gauge your opinion on them being legit?

Thank you in advance for any replies, I've been reading here for months and only started posting. I'll be doing my best to begin contributing to this forum as my experiance/knoweledge increases :beer:


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## Smitch

It sounds like you don't really know what you want from this cycle which is exactly how i felt when i did my course of Var, i only did it because i'd read that it was mild and would give me results.

I did an 8 week course at 50mg ED and didn't really rate it as i really wanted to put on more muscle than the Var enabled me to do. I really should have done a Dbol course as i was really wanting to put on mass but was scared as i'd read of bloating and gyno and all sorts of other horrors.

Next course i do will be either Dbol or possibly Tbol due to less water retention (so i'm told) than the Dbol. But hey, you live and learn.....


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## stonecoldzero

Hi -

Can't reply to most of your post

BUT

I have been running 50mg PC anavar for the last 4 weeks (on top of TRT dose etc so other factors in play). Like the way I'm starting to look - harder, leaner. Feel good, look forward to workouts, energised.

You WILL get the "gotta do test" posts despite saying you're not interested. 

You will also get the "oral variation" of "do test" which is "bang in some d'bol only as a frist cycle". :laugh:

All the best. 

EDIT - OOPS , JUST SAW SMITCH'S POST ^^^^^^^^


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## mal

bang some test in bro,resistance is futile


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## daz82

hi im new to this site and dont no how do add my own post, sorry to add it on urs mate,

was looking to start my first cycle of Dbol in the next few weeks, i have been training for 9 yrs now and have reached the point where i will no longer grow naturally, i train 4-5 days a week.

im just looking to do only 1 cycle just to expand a little more and get that size that i cant get naturally

what internal damage will be caused with just one cycle?

also will i start losing an hair at all with one cycle?


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> It sounds like you don't really know what you want from this cycle which is exactly how i felt when i did my course of Var, i only did it because i'd read that it was mild and would give me results.
> 
> I did an 8 week course at 50mg ED and didn't really rate it as i really wanted to put on more muscle than the Var enabled me to do. I really should have done a Dbol course as i was really wanting to put on mass but was scared as i'd read of bloating and gyno and all sorts of other horrors.
> 
> Next course i do will be either Dbol or possibly Tbol due to less water retention (so i'm told) than the Dbol. But hey, you live and learn.....


To be honest I never want to be that massive, just bigger than your average joe and cut solid. So I reckon down the like when I do harder cycles I will still want to be taking anavar, thus me trying it out as my first cycle. I would like to say I am running this because I want to add xkg of solid muscle while triming down the fat but from my research I have been told not to expect and massive changes with anavar so I am keeping my hopes down and any changes for the better will be a bonus.

I am however looking forward to strength increases which are widley reported as although I am happy enough with my build I see skinnier guys out lifting me all the time at the gym so not sure what the story is there but it's annoying!lol



stonecoldzero said:


> Hi -
> 
> Can't reply to most of your post
> 
> BUT
> 
> I have been running 50mg PC anavar for the last 4 weeks (on top of TRT dose etc so other factors in play). Like the way I'm starting to look - harder, leaner. Feel good, look forward to workouts, energised.
> 
> You WILL get the "gotta do test" posts despite saying you're not interested.
> 
> You will also get the "oral variation" of "do test" which is "bang in some d'bol only as a frist cycle". :laugh:
> 
> All the best.


In pretty much every anavar thread on the net I have read that, however I have found that most of those comments come from people who have never tried an anavar only cycle, and the few people who have tried anavar only, and posted their results seem to look quite positive.

I'll be sure to keep a bit of a brief log to help anybody else in my situation out in future. Even if I do come to the conclusion that I should have done test!:laugh:


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## Stebo

daz82 said:


> hi im new to this site and dont no how do add my own post, sorry to add it on urs mate,
> 
> was looking to start my first cycle of Dbol in the next few weeks, i have been training for 9 yrs now and have reached the point where i will no longer grow naturally, i train 4-5 days a week.
> 
> im just looking to do only 1 cycle just to expand a little more and get that size that i cant get naturally
> 
> what internal damage will be caused with just one cycle?
> 
> also will i start losing an hair at all with one cycle?


 :whistling: It's not rocket science to start a new thread, I figured it out in a couple of sceonds and I'm no wizz kid. At least add it to a relavent thread or even better to find a thread that your question has been previously asked. Search bar is at the top right of the home page :thumbup1:


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## Stebo

mal said:


> bang some test in bro,resistance is futile


Didn't even get to the second page :cursing:

:tongue:


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> I did an 8 week course at 50mg ED and didn't really rate it as i really wanted to put on more muscle than the Var enabled me to do.


btw, Is it that you didn't rate it due to it doing nothing, or because it didn't give the results you were looking for (mass).


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## Smitch

Stebo said:


> I want to add 5kg of solid muscle while triming down the fat but from my research I have been told not to expect and massive changes with anavar so I am keeping my hopes down and any changes for the better will be a bonus.


5kg of solid muscle is a massive change in 8 weeks, you won't gain anywhere near that off this course.


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## Smitch

Stebo said:


> btw, Is it that you didn't rate it due to it doing nothing, or because it didn't give the results you were looking for (mass).


Oh no, it worked. I'm more vascular now and did get strength gains and lose a bit of fat but mass wise i didn't really notice a massive difference. I'd up the dose to 80-100mg ED to get better results if i could go back and do it again.

My avatar is from before i did the course by the way.


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## mal

my first ever cycle was var i remember it well,though aloooooong time ago

it is very mild but I'm pretty sure i gained some muscle on it,very lean.

it is a good stepping stone into the use of aas for a beginner,enjoy it. :thumbup1:


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## stonecoldzero

OP

This is probably something you want to read ie anavar only results

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/61485-low-dose-anavar-only-results.html


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> 5kg of solid muscle is a massive change in 8 weeks, you won't gain anywhere near that off this course.


 I know, hit of sarcasm (lowest form of wit!), I am scared to expect much as I know it won't make a huge difference and I wouldn't want to be disapointed. 80% of this cycle is just to see how I react / like AAS



mal said:


> my first ever cycle was var i remember it well,though aloooooong time ago
> 
> it is very mild but I'm pretty sure i gained some muscle on it,very lean.
> 
> it is a good stepping stone into the use of aas for a beginner,enjoy it. :thumbup1:


I imagin I have a similar sort of opinion to what you had. This is my way of puting my toe in the water before jumping in.



stonecoldzero said:


> OP
> 
> This is probably something you want to read ie anavar only results
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/61485-low-dose-anavar-only-results.html


 Yea, I learnt alot from that thread. Bit worried about the suggestions that I should use nova for PCT. I am not that learned regarding PCT but I was under the illusion that both clomid and nova basically did the same thing, but clomid was weaker. Having read about people that didn't even bother with PCT I reckoned that clomid would be okay. Do you reckon I should invest in some nova?


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## russforever

i start my anavar cycle next week on monday and will be keeping updates on my thread i made on it


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## Stebo

russforever said:


> i start my anavar cycle next week on monday and will be keeping updates on my thread i made on it


 I'll be keeping an interest in your thread. You are similar weight and bf% to myself however from looking at your avatar I would not just be as well built and taller.


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## Stebo

Would also love to hear your opinions regarding proviron, there's not as much info knocking around regarding this so I'm not very sure about it. Mostly putting it is as I've a very hot missus and I like to keep her happy. :whistling:

Should I be concerned enough to consider using this? I've also heard that it hardens you up which I like the idea of, even though I would need to drop a few %bf for any hardening to become noticable!


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## Smitch

I wouldn't bother with proviron unless you start to feel sh1t while you're on the Var. Everyone is different, you'll probably be ok on such a low dose.


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> I wouldn't bother with proviron unless you start to feel sh1t while you're on the Var. Everyone is different, you'll probably be ok on such a low dose.


Thanks, I'll see how I go in that case then.

How powerful is it. Wouldn't want to pop a pill and then be walking round using my knob to hammer in nails for the next couple of days :laugh:


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## Smitch

Didn't use it myself, i felt fine the whole way through the course.


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## The Oak 2009

It looks like you have done your research on Anavar, looking at your proposed cycle my only advice would be to maybe up the dose a bit e.g 60-70mg a day.

TBH looking at the goals you have stated for this cycle though, I have to say I don't think you will achieve them.

1) You said that 80% of this cycle was aimed at seeing how you react to AAS. Suggesting that you plan to go on to bigger and better things in the future (Test, Dbol, Deca, Winstrol etc......). This anavar only cycle won't prove anything in that respect. Just because you do a fairly mildly dosed anavar only cycle and get no side effects from it does not mean that your body reacts well to AAS - it means your body reacts well to that particular compound. E.G plenty of people try Test on their 1st cycle and get very minimal side effects, then on their 2nd cycle they try Dbol and suddenly get gyno and aggressive tendencies or they try Deca and get bad acne. Thus the Test only cycle they did before only proved their reaction to Test and not to AAS in general.

2) 5kg gain of lean muscle on this cycle. I think would be close to impossible. I think if you gain half of that it should go down as a pretty successful cycle. If you do want to gain 5kg I would say do Test (I know you said you don't want people saying that but the truth hurts.........You said you have already noticed people saying it on this and other forums - its not because people are trying to bully you into doing things their way, if I thought you would achieve your goal of 5kg on Anavar only cycle I would say go for it. People say do Test because they generally have more knowledge and experience of AAS than the OP, and they realise that that is what is necessary to achieve their goals.

3) Your strength goal should be achievable though Anavar is known for reasonable strength gains without the body weight gains.

Good luck whatever you choose to do.


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## Stebo

The Oak 2009 said:


> It looks like you have done your research on Anavar, looking at your proposed cycle my only advice would be to maybe up the dose a bit e.g 60-70mg a day.
> 
> TBH looking at the goals you have stated for this cycle though, I have to say I don't think you will achieve them.
> 
> 1) You said that 80% of this cycle was aimed at seeing how you react to AAS. Suggesting that you plan to go on to bigger and better things in the future (Test, Dbol, Deca, Winstrol etc......). This anavar only cycle won't prove anything in that respect. Just because you do a fairly mildly dosed anavar only cycle and get no side effects from it does not mean that your body reacts well to AAS - it means your body reacts well to that particular compound. E.G plenty of people try Test on their 1st cycle and get very minimal side effects, then on their 2nd cycle they try Dbol and suddenly get gyno and aggressive tendencies or they try Deca and get bad acne. Thus the Test only cycle they did before only proved their reaction to Test and not to AAS in general.
> 
> 2) 5kg gain of lean muscle on this cycle. I think would be close to impossible. I think if you gain half of that it should go down as a pretty successful cycle. If you do want to gain 5kg I would say do Test (I know you said you don't want people saying that but the truth hurts.........You said you have already noticed people saying it on this and other forums - its not because people are trying to bully you into doing things their way, if I thought you would achieve your goal of 5kg on Anavar only cycle I would say go for it. People say do Test because they generally have more knowledge and experience of AAS than the OP, and they realise that that is what is necessary to achieve their goals.
> 
> 3) Your strength goal should be achievable though Anavar is known for reasonable strength gains without the body weight gains.
> 
> Good luck whatever you choose to do.


Thanks for your advice. Understand what you are saying regarding just because I'm fine with one compund doesn't mean I will be fine with them all. I don't ever want to get massive into steroids but do like the sound of test and anavar cycles, and decided to just go with anavar simply to try the water so to speak. There's also the ease of use with pills and my missus won't **** herself when she walks in and finds needles sticking out of me lol.

I said about the 5kg muscle in jest. I honestly won't be disapointed if I gain 1kg and tighten up a bit during this cycle. Most of the negative reviews I've read about anavar seem to be from people who were expecting too much from it.

As I've said I am going to keep using steroids hopefully, but it will be once or twice a year, therefore I want to make keepable gains, and I also am looking for refinement rather than mass and these are my reasons for going with anavar.

I'm heading away at the start of March for a couple of days and will be starting this cycle as soon as I get back. I'll take my stats then and keep a bit of a log here for anybody else interested.

It will also be an interesting comparison to my second and third cycles which will likley be stronger so we can see the difference adding test could have made (then I'll be regretting this no doubt!lol)

Would still love a bit of reasurance regarding a clomid only PCT. Should this be fine?


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## Smitch

I only ran Clomid for about 14 days on and off as i went on holiday straight after my cycle and forgot to take the tablets a lot of the time. Not really the best thing to do but i didn't really get any side effects at all off the var so it probably wasn't needed that much anyway. So effectively i didn't really do a proper PCT and i was fine.


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> I only ran Clomid for about 14 days on and off as i went on holiday straight after my cycle and forgot to take the tablets a lot of the time. Not really the best thing to do but i didn't really get any side effects at all off the var so it probably wasn't needed that much anyway. So effectively i didn't really do a proper PCT and i was fine.


That's reasuring :thumb:

To be honest I'm not really looking forward to the PCT and don't want to over-do it, but at the same time don't want to risk not doing anything


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## Stebo

Well, my "gear" landed in superfast time (didn't expect it for another week or two) so I am basically going to start today. As I said previously I will be away, and not able to get to gym for three days at start of March but I don't think it's worth putting back my cycle just for that, and I should be able to bring enough pills with me to keep the cycle going. Plus it'll be nice to be in a bit better shape for heading away!

Took one anavar pill last night before bed just to try one and everything seems 100% appart from I didn't sleep well but hopefully that's nothing. Just about to pop my first two now, and another three before gym later.

Looking forward to seeing how this goes.


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## Stebo

Day 5

I take weekends off training and played football on Friday night so haven't lifted since day one. It'll be interesting to see if I notice any differnace at the gym later.

Playing football on Friday was good - had been a long time since I've played (just so happened to be free this Friday night) and was expecting to be a bit ****. Actually felt really good and a felt alot stronger and more solid that I ever have playing before. Found myself winning more 50/50s etc and didn't really tire like I expected I would. I think alot of that was due to the eca stack I've started with maybe a bit of a placebo effect from the anavar with it being my first cycle.

I didn't warm up right before the game and have had very sore legs ever since - still painfull and think I'm going to swim instead of run after weights in gym today. Hopefully recovery won't take as long in future once the anavar kicks in.

Everything downstairs all seems to be 100% which is one of my biggest concerns.

Looking forward to this week at the gym :rockon:


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## Slindog

i gained 2.5 kg from a 6 week var only cycle.

Would I do it again... Probably not. It is not a substance that really assists you in your work.

Its gives you low mood, low appetite, but increases your strength and gives you a few pounds. Nothing useful to a competive athlete trying to break records

Simply put, its like the icing on the cake.

I would rate Primobolan > Var


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## Smitch

Gave me real bad shin pumps on 50mg ED too.


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## Stebo

Slindog said:


> i gained 2.5 kg from a 6 week var only cycle.
> 
> Would I do it again... Probably not. It is not a substance that really assists you in your work.
> 
> Its gives you low mood, low appetite, but increases your strength and gives you a few pounds. Nothing useful to a competive athlete trying to break records
> 
> Simply put, its like the icing on the cake.
> 
> I would rate Primobolan > Var


You're prob right but if like me you did a good bit of research you would have heard this before and ignored it!lol I would say I'm in the same boat. To be honest if I was to get the results you go I would be happy and like yourself then move on to other AASs that are maybe more effective.

Ideally I am looking for a great strength to weight ratio rather than to become a beast, and my goals are for personal satisfaction rather that athletic competitiveness.

I would be concerned about it effecting my mood and if this does happen and I can't correct it successfully then at least I will have learnt that anavar isn't for me.

Looking forward to finding out however!!


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> Gave me real bad shin pumps on 50mg ED too.


 Shins where (and still are) sore after playing football. I put that down to not having played football in a couple of months and not warming up but I generally never get sore shins. I have also been working on my calves recently which wouldn't help the shins. Maybe it's the anavar kicking in.

I would almost be releaved to even see small sides so that I know the anavar I got is 100% :confused1:

Is it alright is I ask peoples opinion on gp from .net :whistling:

How big a hint are you allowed to give or have I already gone too far??


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## Stebo

Well, yesterday was my first real day in the gym since I started the anavar cycle (day 5). All I can say was that I was well impressed and know that I am going to enjoy the gym for the rest of this cycle. Strength is definitely increasing already and although I didn't increase my usual weights I was able to complete sets that I would normally exhaust on and was able to throw a couple of extra exercises in. I was sceptical of the effects of anavar and was at least expecting to have to wait a week or two to start noticing changes but yesterday evening the difference was very real.

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One problem I did have was pains in my wrists and forearms. I was doing back&bis yesterday (basically a lot of pulling exercises) and I was finding that pain in my forearms was holding me back rather than pain/exhaustion of muscle I was exercising. I wonder if investing in a set of wrist supports would help.

<o> </o>

Basically so far I am very pleased with how this is going. No side effects noticeable yet and I was really pleased with the difference I was feeling both in the gym last night and this morning. I would normally give myself a real push to increase my routine every once in a while and be suffering the next day but today I almost feel like I should have pushed harder.

<o> </o>

I have also read that the effects become more and more pronounced as time ticks on so I'm finding it very hard not to get excited about how week two and three is going to feel. I took measurement on day one and will re-measure at the end of every week - however I am more interested in mirror measurements as I am hoping to reduce body-fat with keeping weight similar and I only have access to body fat measurements through the electronic machines, which I don't really rate.

<o> </o>

In summary I'm very happy with how it's going and I'll update again in a day or two as the var starts to really kick in and some sides may become apparent.

<o> </o>


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## Stebo

Day six at the gym went well. I had read far too much into the people who said that anavar is **** weak and it won't do anything unless taking huge doses or along side test. Not even a week in and yesterday in the gym I found myself throwing my previous personal best weights around like toys 

Seriously I am loving the strength increase and I think that I am bound to grow over the next couple of weeks just due to the extra weight this stuff is allowing me to push.

Would love to hear from anybody that has done an anavar only cycle if it's a case of the effects become apparent after a week and then stay the same throughout the cycle or if they will become more pronounced or dwindle away (unless I increase the dose) over the next 5 weeks. :thumbup1:

Other things I have been noticing would be a slight reduction (maybe all in my head) of fat around my lover back area, sides and chest, my veins although not always pumped do look very pronounced/blue and it feels like my arms and legs are alot more solid.

I am also loving the ECA stack, been a while since I ran and ECA cycle and I forgot how much energy it gives.

Havent really noticed any side effects appart from maybe my nuts feeling slightly smaller and I am getting worried if I am actually as hard as I would normally be, however I am starting to think that this might be phycological from worrying about it. Very temped to try a few proviron coming up to st valintines day to see what sort of effect they have if any.


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## Mav

When talking anavar whats the significance of the two letters after the dose e.g. ED/PC? Is this the lab where there made?

Cheers

Mav


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## Dagman72

Mav said:


> When talking anavar whats the significance of the two letters after the dose e.g. ED/PC? Is this the lab where there made?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mav


ED = each day

PC = pro chem (lab)

PCT = post cycle therapy


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## LiftHeavy

I would up the dose, i find 50mg ed very mild


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## Stebo

LiftHeavy said:


> I would up the dose, i find 50mg ed very mild


I'm not that big yet (85kg) and I am finding that 40 seems to be having effect. I plan to increase to 50mg after the first week but I would hope that 50mg would be enough. I don't want to over-do it and then find that I need 100mg for there to be an effect next time.

I am quite surprised that 40mg is having such an effect so quickly and I would suggest that people who are considering running 80mg cycles of this first time, etc give it a week at a low dose so that they can gauge the results. I am considering the possibility of doing week 4 at 80mg to see if a double dose will result in double results, however I already believe that my money would be more productivly spent running the cycle for an extra week rather than double dose for a week. I'll know better however after upping the dose to 50mg, if I notice a big increase I'll up again, if I notice no change I'll just keep it at 50mg.


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## Stebo

UPDATE:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

Right, it's been over a week since I started this cycle (started on 5th), and I finally got stats retaken (was planning to get them done weekly but things didn't go to plan last Thursday). I had seen big changes in the mirror but was scared to say anything in case it was all in my head and the scales would end up proving me wrong. <o></o>

<o></o>

Anyway after week one:<o></o>

.........................WK1<o></o>

Weight.............+2.8kg<o></o>

BF% ................-1.0%<o></o>

Fat mass.......... -0.4kg<o></o>

Lean mass ........+3.2kg

<o></o>

<o></o>

This is my first cycle so maybe I am naive and this isn't anything special for a 40mg anavar only cycle, but I personally am well impresses and figure that if every week was to go as well I'll gain 17kg lean muscle during this cycle (I won't get my hopes up however as I'm sure that the effects will slope off pretty quickly).<o></o>

<o></o>

It's worth mentioning that I started taking creatine a couple of weeks before I started the cycle so that I could see the difference that the anavar was making, therefore I am not putting these gains down to creatine causing water retention. The creatine put on 1kg of body weight before I began the cycle. From I planned this cycle, started the creatine, eca stack (started this at same time as the anavar) and anavar I have gained the following:<o></o>

<o></o>

.............25th Jan to 15th Feb

Weight............ +3.8kg<o></o>

BF%................ -2.1%<o></o>

Fat mass .........-1.1kg<o></o>

Lean mass....... +4.9kg (When I say lean I mean total mass minus fat mass, but still, that's 5kg in three weeks!)<o></o>

<o></o>

<o></o>

Anyway that's the stats for week 1 (plus a couple of non-gym loading days - started on Thursday night, first proper gym day was the next Monday). I'll keep this up-dated week, by week (even if I'm the only one that looks at it!lol) and maybe throw up some before and after photos at the end. This week I have upped the dose to 50mg ED so it will be interesting to see how that goes, felt strong as an ox yesterday in the gym. I don't expect next week's results to be as impressive (to me), because those results were really for 11 days as I couldn't get weighed on the same scales on Thursday. From now on weigh in days will be Mondays.<o></o>

<o></o>

I'm impressed with the results and honestly had this anavar cycle wrote off, right from the start, due to the comments I'd read. I would have been pleased if I had seen these results after three or four weeks so now I am really looking forward to the next 5 weeks. In real world terms I have noticed a real increase in strength, and a good bit of tightening up. Feel like I have lost a bit of fat round my sides/lower back and I am seeing a lot more curves and bumps on my body in the right places, my back has always lagged and I feel I'm making real progress with definite differences from this time last week.<o></o>

<o></o>

Regarding sides, I haven't really had any that I've noticed. I am experiencing massive pumps in the gym, mostly in my arms (thought my forearms were going to burst yesterday while doing biceps). I did notice my balls getting smaller but I popped a couple of proviron for three days coming up to st Valentine's Day and they seem to have come back to life right away. Even when they were getting small my libido seemed 100%.<o></o>

<o></o>

Any questions feel free to ask. I'm not an expert but I did a good bit of research before starting this and can tell you of my experience so far so shoot away. :thumb: <o></o>


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## Smitch

Sounds like it's doing more for you than it did for me, mine was Pro Chem too. The pains you're feeling in you arms are just pumps, i got these really badly in my shins while on my course.

I'm just about to start a Dbol course as i'm looking to put on a bit more mass than the Anavar did for me. I was doing 50 mg ED of the Var, i'll only be doing 30mg ED of the Dbol as i've been told i should see good reults of that amount so it'll be interesting to see the differences.

Would be intersting to see some before and after pics with this course of yours.


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## Stebo

Smitch said:


> Sounds like it's doing more for you than it did for me, mine was Pro Chem too. The pains you're feeling in you arms are just pumps, i got these really badly in my shins while on my course.
> 
> I'm just about to start a Dbol course as i'm looking to put on a bit more mass than the Anavar did for me. I was doing 50 mg ED of the Var, i'll only be doing 30mg ED of the Dbol as i've been told i should see good reults of that amount so it'll be interesting to see the differences.
> 
> Would be intersting to see some before and after pics with this course of yours.


Yesterday doing arms my forearms were rock solid. I'm never quite sure if it's okay to exercise on through the pain or it I am doing damage. The only other side effect I should maybe mention is pretty sore DOMS, but I have recently mixed up my training a bit and with the strength gains (and giving everything during training to make the most of this cycle) I have been lifting more so some more pain can only be expected.

I have a few before pics so I'll wait until the end before I throw them up along with some afters. I don't know alot about Dbol but I assume it is likley to give more mass than anavar but not as lean and harder to keep. My goals to have a great strength to bodymass ratio so want all lean strong muscle and zero fat eventually, therefore I think any future cycles will likley be test along with more anavar, it will be easier to decide at the end of this cycle though! 

oh and mine is geneza anavar (hope that doesn't break any rules!), which I was wary of but seems 100%


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## UKWolverine

Hey Stebo, thought I would comment and wish you luck with the cycle, seems to be going very well for you so far. That's one hell of a dramatic weight increase in such a short space of time.

As you would have gathered reading my var only log I found the strength kept increasing week on week right up to the end of the cycle.

What training routine are you running?


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## Stebo

UKWolverine said:


> Hey Stebo, thought I would comment and wish you luck with the cycle, seems to be going very well for you so far. That's one hell of a dramatic weight increase in such a short space of time.
> 
> As you would have gathered reading my var only log I found the strength kept increasing week on week right up to the end of the cycle.
> 
> What training routine are you running?


Thanks

For a long time I was set in a routine of just doing one or two exercises per body part and basically just beating the **** out of it in sets of ten, as heavy as I could manage. I didn't buy into doing all the different exercises I see people doing for the same muscle group. I reckoned that all a muscle does is contract so it didn't matter what I did.

Since I started this cycle however I have started mixing it up and using alot of new exercises, and even started using alot of machines. It means that I haven't really got into a firm routine but generally I am starting out with a light set of 20 to get my muscles moving, then into 5x5, then drop the weight and do a few sets of ten until my muscles are locked solid in a state of pump lol. I always am planning on just doing 5x5 but have been under-estimating the weight and thus the sets of ten thrown in at the end.

I have also pulled back on the cardio a bit as I find myself spending longer on the weights until I am beat. I am going to start really pilling on the weights this week and really push myself, with sets of 5 max this week. I am just a bit cautious of pulling things and hurting myself as I'm not sure that tendons, etc will be too happy with the extra force. This is also the reason I under estimated weights last week, I don't want to over-do the weight and loose form and struggle to be doing the lifts.

I have set myself some pretty high weight goals that I would like to get to on a 5x5 routine. If I manage to get to them before the end of the cycle I will start doing more in a set. The main reason for heavy weights and short sets is due to the muscle pump getting more and more after every rep, Five nice slow controled reps, of weights I never thought of trying a week ago, feels real good.

Oh yea, and I am doing a pull, push, legs, core split and bit of cardio mixed in when I have the time (weights are getting priority)

And the strength gains continuing is great news. Looking forward to it this week now that I am up to 50mg.


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## UKWolverine

Push Pull Legs is a good split IMO.

Apologies if you mentioned it before but what body fat were you when starting cycle? Reason I ask is that I have both var and pct on hand ready to rock so really tempted to start another cycle but I think my bf is too high with my winter bloat (mid teens)

Seems like you've had a good reduction in bf, are you on calorie deficit?


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## Stebo

UKWolverine said:


> Push Pull Legs is a good split IMO.
> 
> Apologies if you mentioned it before but what body fat were you when starting cycle? Reason I ask is that I have both var and pct on hand ready to rock so really tempted to start another cycle but I think my bf is too high with my winter bloat (mid teens)
> 
> Seems like you've had a good reduction in bf, are you on calorie deficit?


Bodyfat was prob higher than most would recomend, around 17% (but I don't trust the machine so am just using it for +/- percentage referance).

I spent most of last two years getting myself into some sort of shape as I was a skinny-fat mess, then after the summer I did a bit of a slow bulk which didn't really get me anywhere as I wasn't really putting on muscle and wasn't loosing fat. Just before Christmas I decided to up the calories, which got a bit dirty over Christmas. When I got back to the gym after Christmas I realised I had pretty much lost 6 months of work (was back up near 20%!), which is when I started looking seriously at AAS:whistling:! I did a serious cut and droped down to 17%ish before I started this cycle.

Since I have started I have upped my calories to close to where I was at when I first tried to bulk. I've pretty much just doubled the scoops of powder I put in my three protein shakes, so most of the extra calories I am getting are from protein. I'm quite happy where my calories are at currently as I am mostly decreasing my bf% by adding muscle and just loosing a small amount of fat.

The cut I did from Christmas until I started the cycle showed me how quickly I can loose fat if I put my mind to it so I plan on keeping this cycle going as it is (finish mid March), then keeping eating plenty for a month after this cycle until I get to the stage where I am safely holding my gains naturally, then in another couple of months run another cycle (May) where I will concentrate on holding muscle while I cut right back over the summer.(maybe research clen, etc)

Then back to a good solid natural bulk until next year. 

I do know that my bodyfat wasn't that low and this sounds a bit like I got fed up working hard and not getting anywhere so turned to AAS long before reaching my natural potential, which I suppose to a point is true, as I was not at my natural potential, even though I have lost alot of fat over the last couple of years. But I do understand nutrition and have been training right for two years (mostly cutting and increasing my cardio-vascular abilities). I didn't just jump in without researching it propperly and an anavar only cycle is pretty timid.

If I was giving advice to somebody else I would say to be completely at your max natural potential and have tried everything before turning to AAS, but in reality from my research I haven't found any real reason for this other than it is to ensure that the person is 100% committed to bodybuilding and not just some party-boy wanting a magic pill to look swell for the girls without having to put in the work


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## Stebo

Just into week 3 so here are my stat-changes after week two<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o></o>

.........................WK1......WK2......................TOTAL

Weight.............+2.8kg.....-0.2kg...................+2.6kg

BF% ................-1.0%.....-1.8%....................-2.8%

Fat mass.......... -0.4kg....-1.6kg....................-2.0kg

Lean mass ........+3.2kg....+1.4kg...................+4.6kg<o></o>

<o></o>

Kina for experimental reasons I cut back on my calories (still in a surplus however) this week and as you can see my fat loss for the week shot up while my lean mass gain wasn't as massive as last week.<o></o>

<o></o>

Maybe I am being naive but how impressive are these results for an anavar only cycle? I wasn't expecting anything like this and (as I'm sure you're not surprised) I'm over the moon!<o></o>

<o></o>

I think I will keep a similar diet this week as I am loving the fat loss. I was hoping to put on a bit of muscle this cycle to help with cutting down to 10% before the summer, but with this stuff I reckon I will be close to 10% by the end of the cycle and will have still put on a lot more lean muscle that I would have naturally.<o></o>

<o></o>

Really loving this cycle and I am really confused as to what a cycle with test added would have done to me, as all the experts told me I was wasting my time without test. These weigh ins are really motivating and I am itching to get back to the gym later on<o></o>

<o> </o>

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


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## Slindog

Ok, here we go again.

Anavar only is like the icing on the cake to an already well developed body. It will give you a few pounds.

I gained 2.5kg from a 6 week var only cycle. Recovery was simple.

The big question is would i do it again?

I am going to have to say NO. Why? because I can gain 1 kg in 8 weeks naturally, while not having to bother with any side effects. Even though the side effects are minimal on Oxandrolone.

The whole point of a cycle is to gain beyond limits, in order to achieve your goal.

Ask you self why so many top athletes are ON? They broke the limits by using a substance that broke their own genetic limits.

So take anavar to help recover from injury, from overuse, to promote collagen sythesis. But dont take anavar to gain lots of muscle because you wont.


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## Stebo

Slindog said:


> Ok, here we go again.
> 
> Anavar only is like the icing on the cake to an already well developed body. It will give you a few pounds.
> 
> I gained 2.5kg from a 6 week var only cycle. Recovery was simple.
> 
> The big question is would i do it again?
> 
> I am going to have to say NO. Why? because I can gain 1 kg in 8 weeks naturally, while not having to bother with any side effects. Even though the side effects are minimal on Oxandrolone.
> 
> The whole point of a cycle is to gain beyond limits, in order to achieve your goal.
> 
> Ask you self why so many top athletes are ON? They broke the limits by using a substance that broke their own genetic limits.
> 
> So take anavar to help recover from injury, from overuse, to promote collagen sythesis. But dont take anavar to gain lots of muscle because you wont.


Not sure if you have read this thread or not. I am not on this cycle to gain a lot of muscle. I am on this cycle to experiance how weak steroids effect me so that I will have an idea of what a proper cycle will be like. It is me dipping my toe in the water so to speak for when I have reached my natural limit, or close to it.

Also, reading threads like yours had me believing that this anavar cycle was a waste of time as far as any physical advantage, but now (considering my results after only a couple of weeks) I would have to question what you were doing while on that cycle, or what brand of anavar you were on because this stuff is working wonders for me. I can see and feel my body changing from one day to the next, and appart from muscle pumps I am having no sides at all :thumb:


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## mrdapper

Hey mate

im new to this site too. looking to start my 1st ever anavar course next week,

hows everything going with you? this has been a great thread for me as there is so much conflicting info with anavar

have you any sides yet?


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## Stebo

I found the same when researching. I think that there is alot of almost AAS snobbery. If you are not injecting ****loads of dangerous steroids into your body then your not fit to be doing anything.

I could tell you everything that I learnt from reading but that's all second hand information. All I can be sure about is my own experiance. Firstly the anavar I am on is G*n*z* Pharma anavar (it seems that results with different brands vary). Right from the start I noticed alot more strength. It was like I started struggling at the same point I normally would, but instead of starting shaking and dropping the weights I could take a breath, compose myself, concentrate and push out another couple of reps.

I feel that the majority of the muscle gains is coming from the increased weight that I am able to push. I have been using this with creatine which is supposed to help. Can't really comment on that because I'v never tried it without creatine.

The other thing that I am finding is the fat loss. I am running an ECA stack along side it which worked for me in the past, but no where near as well as I am loosing fat at the minute.

The figures I have posted can't really be argued with, and I know just by looking in the mirror that this week's weigh in will be fun too.

I started off on 40mg, and am now on 50mg (30 in morning and 20 with last meal before workout @5pm). I will tell you what differance the extra 10mg is making after the weigh in on Monday but it definitly feels like it's worth it.

Side effect wise I was getting enjoyable muscle pumps at 40mg (sometimes feels nice walking around with my arms locked solid and buldging), I still found running/football/etc 100%. Now that I am up to 50mg (or maybe just because I have been on it for longer) I am finding some of the pumps are starting to interfeer with my workouts. I have to do more sets with shorter reps, and I have to cycle / swim for my cardio as running is starting to cause shin-splints. I wouldn't really describe these as big negatives unless you were big into a running sport and needed to be on form. If I had a football match coming up I would drop back to 40mg.

I also have changed my work out about a bit and quickly increasing the weights which is causing DOMS which can be a bit annoying. No other side effects to talk about but I am going to start taking something for my liver as I am a bit worried about it, and due to having DOMS after my core workout I am not sure if my liver feels sore or if it's all in my head and it's my muscles (99% sure that it's this but liver protection will do no harm).


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## Smitch

I think that different people just respond differently to different drugs.

You need to try it for yourself. What you find amazing does nothing for others. There was a thread on here last night about creatine, it was as if the guy had been inject 1g of test a week or something the results he got off it. Fair play to him, wish it did the same for me....


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## BillC

It isn't snobbery , it's because orals are more dangerous than injectables(exception winny). To enable them to survive first pass through the liver, which all supps you eat have to go through, they have an alkyl group attached at the 17th carbon atom, which is toxic to the liver. Injections bypass this and get straight into the bloodstream.

This is why people advise to use test injections not pills. It's for your health. Only danger from injections comes from your own technique.

BTW I can say all that and know exactly what it means as I'm a chemical engineer so ner ner, I aint just spouting what I've heard.


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## UKWolverine

Here's an article I found when doing my research for my var cycle, it indicates that Anavar is pretty mild on the liver...

By WRONGUN @ Sculpted by Iron

Why is Anavar not Liver Toxic?

*Anavar does not contain a C-17 alpha alkylated ion which makes it extremely safe and non-toxic to the liver.* It also does not easily convert to estrogen like other steroids

As for toxicity of 17aa the only report i have to hand at the moment but will dig out more is:

From research conducted by Michael Mooney that this is particularly well noted with HIV patients who have been using Oxandrin, another brand name for oxandrolone Anavar is much less liver toxic than other 17-alpha alkylated steroids, probably because it is primarily metabolized outside of the liver, when metabolized, and much of it is excreted unchanged. At higher doses it can increase liver enzyme values, there seems to be no evidence that any cytotoxicity exists, as is the case with other 17-alpha alkylated steroids.

Anabolic Steroids and the Liver

Anabolic steroids are processed by the liver. As discussed earlier, C-17 alkylated oral steroids (steroids with an alkyl group added at the alpha position of the "C-17" or number 17 carbon atom of the molecule to withstand total degradation on their first pass through the liver [see Steroids 101 section above]) are unusually harsh on the liver. For this reason, even moderate short-term administration of these C-17 oral steroids can effect liver function test readings. Elevated liver counts indicating liver stress (toxicity) have been reported in recent studies of somewhat moderate oral anabolic steroid therapy (daily doses of 40 and 80 mg of oxandrolone [Oxandrin, formerly Anavar]) as reported in the online periodical Medibolics, edited by Michael Mooney (www.medibolics.com). However, these elevated liver function readings will return to normal after cessation of a moderate, short-term steroid cycle. I could find not one case to the contrary. Further, it is recognized that intense weight training alone often causes changes in liver function tests, including SGOT, SGPT and LDH (this is something that all physicians monitoring athletes using anabolics should be familiar with).

The more serious liver problems attributed to anabolic steroid use include hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) and peliosis hepatitis (blood-filled sacs within the liver). But the majority of cases reporting liver problems have dealt with extremely sick and elderly patients treated with C-17 alkylated oral steroids for years of continuous use, and many of these patients had a particular type of anemia linked to liver tumors even without anabolic steroid therapy. A computer search of the medical literature looking for steroid-associated liver tumors could find only three in athletes (Friedl, 1990). Of the three athletes, one was using 700 mg of oxymetholone a week for five straight years, and one had a tumor more indicative of classic liver cancer than of steroid-associated tumors. Virtually all of the reported liver problems seemed to occur with the 17 alpha-alkylated oral steroids. There have been no cysts or liver tumors reported in athletes using the 17 beta-esterified injectable steroids (Wright & Cowart, p. 61). It has been noted that injectable steroids generally appear to have little effect on the liver at all (Haupt, 1993, p. 469).

Recent studies continue to suggest that reports of serious adverse effects of anabolic steroids upon the liver in healthy athletes may be highly overstated. In a study of athletes, of the 53 current or past steroid users who underwent laboratory testing, only one subject displayed an abnormal liver test (Pope & Katz, 1994, p. 379; incidentally, on physical examination, not one user displayed evidence of any major abnormalities possibly attributable to steroids, such as high blood pressure, edema, acne or hair loss.) Another study tested one of the most powerful and reputedly dangerously toxic anabolic steroids for 30 weeks on HIV positive men and women (Hengge et al.). Oxymetholone, formerly known as Anadrol in the U.S. and a C-17 alkylated oral steroid, was administered in a dosage of over 1,000 mg per week (more than that used by many bodybuilders, and for a much longer duration of uninterrupted use). The results were significant gains in lean muscle mass -- even without any weightlifting. Even more importantly - and surprisingly -- there were no significant problems with liver function, water retention, or virilization side effects (it will be interesting to see whether further studies yield consistent findings at such high dosages).

While the dangers of anabolics to athletes' livers appear to have been highly exaggerated, it must be recognized that an apparently healthy athlete with a previously existing but undiscovered liver problem could do serious damage to himself by self-administering C-17 oral anabolic steroids. For this reason alone, it would be quite irresponsible for any athlete to use anabolic steroids without having a physician regularly conduct blood tests to monitor liver function.


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## Mars

UKWolverine said:


> Here's an article I found when doing my research for my var cycle, it indicates that Anavar is pretty mild on the liver...
> 
> By WRONGUN @ Sculpted by Iron
> 
> Why is Anavar not Liver Toxic?
> 
> *Anavar does not contain a C-17 alpha alkylated ion which makes it extremely safe and non-toxic to the liver.* It also does not easily convert to estrogen like other steroids
> 
> As for toxicity of 17aa the only report i have to hand at the moment but will dig out more is:
> 
> From research conducted by Michael Mooney that this is particularly well noted with HIV patients who have been using Oxandrin, another brand name for oxandrolone Anavar is much less liver toxic than other 17-alpha alkylated steroids, probably because it is primarily metabolized outside of the liver, when metabolized, and much of it is excreted unchanged. At higher doses it can increase liver enzyme values, there seems to be no evidence that any cytotoxicity exists, as is the case with other 17-alpha alkylated steroids.
> 
> Anabolic Steroids and the Liver
> 
> Anabolic steroids are processed by the liver. As discussed earlier, C-17 alkylated oral steroids (steroids with an alkyl group added at the alpha position of the "C-17" or number 17 carbon atom of the molecule to withstand total degradation on their first pass through the liver [see Steroids 101 section above]) are unusually harsh on the liver. For this reason, even moderate short-term administration of these C-17 oral steroids can effect liver function test readings. Elevated liver counts indicating liver stress (toxicity) have been reported in recent studies of somewhat moderate oral anabolic steroid therapy (daily doses of 40 and 80 mg of oxandrolone [Oxandrin, formerly Anavar]) as reported in the online periodical Medibolics, edited by Michael Mooney (www.medibolics.com). However, these elevated liver function readings will return to normal after cessation of a moderate, short-term steroid cycle. I could find not one case to the contrary. Further, it is recognized that intense weight training alone often causes changes in liver function tests, including SGOT, SGPT and LDH (this is something that all physicians monitoring athletes using anabolics should be familiar with).
> 
> The more serious liver problems attributed to anabolic steroid use include hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) and peliosis hepatitis (blood-filled sacs within the liver). But the majority of cases reporting liver problems have dealt with extremely sick and elderly patients treated with C-17 alkylated oral steroids for years of continuous use, and many of these patients had a particular type of anemia linked to liver tumors even without anabolic steroid therapy. A computer search of the medical literature looking for steroid-associated liver tumors could find only three in athletes (Friedl, 1990). Of the three athletes, one was using 700 mg of oxymetholone a week for five straight years, and one had a tumor more indicative of classic liver cancer than of steroid-associated tumors. Virtually all of the reported liver problems seemed to occur with the 17 alpha-alkylated oral steroids. There have been no cysts or liver tumors reported in athletes using the 17 beta-esterified injectable steroids (Wright & Cowart, p. 61). It has been noted that injectable steroids generally appear to have little effect on the liver at all (Haupt, 1993, p. 469).
> 
> Recent studies continue to suggest that reports of serious adverse effects of anabolic steroids upon the liver in healthy athletes may be highly overstated. In a study of athletes, of the 53 current or past steroid users who underwent laboratory testing, only one subject displayed an abnormal liver test (Pope & Katz, 1994, p. 379; incidentally, on physical examination, not one user displayed evidence of any major abnormalities possibly attributable to steroids, such as high blood pressure, edema, acne or hair loss.) Another study tested one of the most powerful and reputedly dangerously toxic anabolic steroids for 30 weeks on HIV positive men and women (Hengge et al.). Oxymetholone, formerly known as Anadrol in the U.S. and a C-17 alkylated oral steroid, was administered in a dosage of over 1,000 mg per week (more than that used by many bodybuilders, and for a much longer duration of uninterrupted use). The results were significant gains in lean muscle mass -- even without any weightlifting. Even more importantly - and surprisingly -- there were no significant problems with liver function, water retention, or virilization side effects (it will be interesting to see whether further studies yield consistent findings at such high dosages).
> 
> While the dangers of anabolics to athletes' livers appear to have been highly exaggerated, it must be recognized that an apparently healthy athlete with a previously existing but undiscovered liver problem could do serious damage to himself by self-administering C-17 oral anabolic steroids. For this reason alone, it would be quite irresponsible for any athlete to use anabolic steroids without having a physician regularly conduct blood tests to monitor liver function.


 NOT true, it's 17b hydroxy and methylated to survive the first pass instead and it's liver toxicity is much the same as any 17aa steroid.


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## eastender

so what happened next stebo? where are the before and after pics?


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## Dm73

Hi going to start my 1st var cycle after my holiday in mud July and just wanted some advice on wether youneed to drop any fat burning supps while taking var ??? I'm using thermo crush at the moment .


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## londonlad

Hello everyone, first time post on a site like this. sorry to steal your thread but...

I have enough var to do a 8week 100mg course, but im thinking of doing 50mg course and saving the rest, ill explain why. ALSO this is my first course. I have all my PCT and pills all ready to go.

My problem is i want to start it but i go on holiday with the lads in just over 6 weeks away, naturally i want to be looking my best for it and really want to start taking my course!

What do you guys think about taking some of my course before, then going on the lads holiday, then i could have a break or jump straight back into it. Really looking for your advice as i know you can all relate to how much i wana look good for the holiday but i will be drinking alot on holiday so i am a bit worried about doing damage to my body! Any general advice, or abuse as some people seem to feel the need to do, is welcome. Thanks

personal info - 5ft7 83KG rugby player center. overall stronger than anyone with a build like mine. good diet supps nutrition and workouts since started hitting the gym properly 2 years ago.


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## londonlad

*Hello everyone, first time post on a site like this and my question is somewhat related.*

*
I have enough var to do a 8week 100mg course, but im thinking of doing 50mg course and saving the rest, ill explain why. ALSO this is my first course. I have all my PCT and pills all ready to go. *

*
My problem is i want to start it but i go on holiday with the lads in just over 6 weeks away, naturally i want to be looking my best for it and really want to start taking my course! *

*
What do you guys think about taking some of my course before, then going on the lads holiday, then i could have a break or jump straight back into it. Really looking for your advice as i know you can all relate to how much i wana look good for the holiday but i will be drinking alot on holiday so i am a bit worried about doing damage to my body! Any general advice, or abuse as some people seem to feel the need to do, is welcome. Thanks*


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## lazy

why have you reposted this?


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## londonlad

new to the site. fail


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## JimBeam

I was finding this thread a really interesting read then suddenly (and perhaps concerningly?) Stebo's updates stopped. Not sure if you still use the site but an update would be appreciated as your results were going very well..


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## shadow4509

JimBeam said:


> I was finding this thread a really interesting read then suddenly (and perhaps concerningly?) Stebo's updates stopped. Not sure if you still use the site but an update would be appreciated as your results were going very well..


It's from 3 years ago?


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## JimBeam

shadow4509 said:


> It's from 3 years ago?


I am aware of that but i googled a particular search topic and this was relevant to what i was looking for. I dont know if anavar has changed too much over the last 3yrs to suddenly make this thread and the users results irrelevant?


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