# Private therapeutic phlebotomy



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

My hematocrit is down to 49 from 54 after donation and some time off, but I want it lower as I ideally I don't want to get into the mid 50s again while on cycle.

I don't want to go to my doctor to get a prescription for this as I don't want to admit AAS and I doubt he'd help me either.

I have donated, but I would prefer not to if there is a way I can pay for it and have the blood disposed of.

Questions:

- Is there such a place in the UK who is willing to perform therapeutic phlebotomy/venesection privately? I have asked round loads of places and they all say no not without a referral - presumably for ethical reasons (assisting a drug user?).

- Also out of interest, does anyone on this forum do this themselves? (Not that I would be likely to go that route myself)


----------



## Ryaan (May 24, 2014)

don't think it is something that private sectors offer, im sure if there was it would be relatively easy to find on the web!


----------



## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

Would be extremely easy to pull off a few large syringe fulls and squirt it down the sink so I wouldn't fancy paying good money for the service. I don't know much about hematocrit though and do wonder whether the benefit would be extremely short-lived? They do say to people who give blood that it is naturally replaced within a couple of days so I wouldn't be that convinced about doing this unless you did it every couple of days or so.

Maybe advertise for some teenage Twilight groupies to help you out?


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Ryaan said:


> don't think it is something that private sectors offer, im sure if there was it would be relatively easy to find on the web!


Understandable. But there is a guy in Wales on another forum who said there is a place who does it for £50 - £75, so I wondered if there are such things in England anywhere. US boards seem to be able to find this service quite easily too.



Kazza61 said:


> Would be extremely easy to pull off a few large syringe fulls and squirt it down the sink so I wouldn't fancy paying good money for the service. I don't know much about hematocrit though and do wonder whether the benefit would be extremely short-lived? They do say to people who give blood that it is naturally replaced within a couple of days so I wouldn't be that convinced about doing this unless you did it every couple of days or so.
> 
> Maybe advertise for some teenage Twilight groupies to help you out?


A pint donation drops HTC by about 3% from the various accounts that I have read from those who TRT or B&C. The HTC will slowly go back up if still on TRT / blast (usually over a period of months - dosage dependant) if the person is susceptible to it.

A syringe full would not have a significant enough impact

Walking around with a hematocrit of 55 is not a sensible idea - I think many AAS users do this unknowingly


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

i posted a vid on here some time ago of someone on the steroid.com forums showing how to do one , a search might find it (i cant remember if it was removed or not)

the guys name on the steroid forums is ' bass'


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

aqualung said:


> i posted a vid on here some time ago of someone on the steroid.com forums showing how to do one , a search might find it (i cant remember if it was removed or not)


Thanks, I have read about this video before on steroid.com but I could never find it.... if anyone has the link I would really appreciate it


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I have no answer to your question but my endo is talking about me letting a pint of blood 3/4 times a year in the future.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

aqualung said:


> the guys name on the steroid forums is ' bass'


Thanks man, I just found it. Excellent.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

@SK50 , here ya go , its in this thread - the guy has also provided info on the forums and you can ask him yourself -bass is a very knowledgeable guy .

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-replacement-therapy-low-testosterone-treatment-anti-aging/509482-self-bleeding.html

*ha, you found it while i was posting :tongue:


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

Forgive my ignorance but I've just been doing a bit of reading online about this and wanted to find out more about the context in which you're talking.

Am I right in understanding that AAS causes higher percentage of hematocrit? What at the consequences of this? I'd love to learn more about this situation...and how do AAS users go about dealing with this? Also, is this applicable to anyone who juices?

My curiosity stems from my interest in science but to be honest never really read about this before.. gracias.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

basically your blood gets thicker , it can cause clots etc leading to heart attacks/strokes .

high hematocrit is not something you can ignore.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

From William Llewellyn's Anabolics:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=afKLA-6wW0oC&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=%22anabolic/androgenic+steroids+stimulate+erythropoiesis%22&source=bl&ots=MeVdnJhY-I&sig=HIDUqSh842traOa0wYsSk5xlOfo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_A2LU7eaKoLgOPPkgeAO&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22anabolic%2Fandrogenic%20steroids%20stimulate%20erythropoiesis%22&f=false


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

I have to say, watching that self phlebotomy video, it feels like a bridge too far for me.

I don't mind needles, but I can't stand blood. I am the guy who gets the red card at the donation centre. If I tried it I reckon I'd pass out and die, lol

I think taking more time off and donating occasionally is a more sane solution. Interesting for educational purposes, however.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

kristina said:


> Also, is this applicable to anyone who juices?


No, not everyone. e.g. One of the vets on the US boards is in his 40s, lives at high altitude, never comes off gear, cruises above 300 - 500mg and doesn't go above hematocrit of 51.

High hematocrit is strongly indicated with TRT/AAS though in most individuals from my understanding. Older men have a higher predisposition towards it.

This is why RBC bloods are so important.

Many people talk about getting a red face on a blast - it is highly likely this is due to elevated hematocrit

At a hematocrit of 54 I had a red nose and cheeks when dehydrated


----------



## troponin (Apr 2, 2014)

kristina said:


> Forgive my ignorance but I've just been doing a bit of reading online about this and wanted to find out more about the context in which you're talking.
> 
> Am I right in understanding that AAS causes higher percentage of hematocrit? What at the consequences of this? I'd love to learn more about this situation...and how do AAS users go about dealing with this? Also, is this applicable to anyone who juices?
> 
> My curiosity stems from my interest in science but to be honest never really read about this before.. gracias.


Anabolic steroids tend to increase the release of EPO (Erythropoetin) which stimulates red blood cell growth and maturation. Basically you get too many red blood cells/thicker blood. This can lead to all manner of problems including left ventricular hypertrophy/stroke/high BP.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

SK50 said:


> I have to say, watching that self phlebotomy video, it feels like a bridge too far for me.
> 
> I don't mind needles, but I can't stand blood. I am the guy who gets the red card at the donation centre. If I tried it I reckon I'd pass out and die, lol
> 
> I think taking more time off and donating occasionally is a more sane solution. Interesting for educational purposes, however.


ignore the red card, ive had it myself in the past and after you have been a few times you get used to it the same as anything else , the last time i went a girl passed out right next to me on the floor as i was signing in - i said to the the nurse 'thats not a very good advertisement for new donors'


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

aqualung said:


> ignore the red card, ive had it myself in the past and after you have been a few times you get used to it the same as anything else , the last time i went a girl passed out right next to me on the floor as i was signing in - i said to the the nurse 'thats not a very good advertisement for new donors'


Ha, I wasn't sure whether the fainting was due to blood loss or just anxiety... but good to hear it's the latter then and that you can get used to it.

Still not sure I'd have the balls to do it myself though.


----------



## oneman (Feb 11, 2013)

Venesection of 1 unit of blood roughly lowers HTC by 0.1. You will have secondary polycythaemia due to steroid use and HTC target is <0.45


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

oneman said:


> Venesection of 1 unit of blood roughly lowers HTC by 0.1. You will have secondary polycythaemia due to steroid use and HTC target is <0.45


.???

Your post doesnt make sense , the range for males is 40-54 .


----------



## oneman (Feb 11, 2013)

aqualung said:


> .???
> 
> Your post doesnt make sense , the range for males is 40-54 .


Target range for a person with polycythaemia is <0.45


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

How can it be less than 0.45 when the range is 40-54 ?


----------



## oneman (Feb 11, 2013)

0.45 is representative of a percentage.... 0.45/ 45%/ 45


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

oneman said:


> 0.45 is representative of a percentage.... 0.45/ 45%/ 45


Lol so you are saying 0.45 and 45 are the same thing?

0.45 is zero point four five and 45 is forty five , they are not even close.

When you say ' representative of a percentage ' you need to get the number right in the first place and regardless of that your original post has no ranges or even a percentage symbol.


----------



## oneman (Feb 11, 2013)

aqualung said:


> Lol so you are saying 0.45 and 45 are the same thing?
> 
> 0.45 is zero point four five and 45 is forty five , they are not even close.
> 
> When you say ' representative of a percentage ' you need to get the number right in the first place and regardless of that your original post has no ranges or even a percentage symbol.


Look all i'm trying to do here is help the guy out. Do you have any experience in a healthcare setting at all? Because if you did then you would know that 0.45 and 45% are completely interchangeable.... In fact 0.45 is used more

Won't bother going in to other options as clearly my knowledge is falling upon deaf ears who want to argue over how to represent a ratio of cellular matter to plasma


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

oneman said:


> Look all i'm trying to do here is help the guy out. Do you have any experience in a healthcare setting at all? Because if you did then you would know that 0.45 and 45% are completely interchangeable.... In fact 0.45 is used more
> 
> Won't bother going in to other options as clearly my knowledge is falling upon deaf ears who want to argue over how to represent a ratio of cellular matter to plasma


Yes i have experience in healthcare setting , and im looking at my last blood test printout.

...but carry on


----------



## oneman (Feb 11, 2013)

aqualung said:


> Yes i have experience in healthcare setting , and im looking at my last blood test printout.
> 
> ...but carry on


Yes and you're looking at a printout that varies nationwide with regards to how it is represented. A ratio can be represented as a number (0.45) or a percentage (45%)... exactly the same thing


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

many people have posted their results on here , and ive never seen any lab in the UK use 0.45 (less than) , my bloods print out has less than and more than readings on the same sheet for different things - so no you cant put one to mean both when you have readings both higher and lower than one on the same test sheet unless you change the ref ranges , if you think you can you have never had done or seen a FBC print out in the UK.

*i do understand what you are saying , ive just never seen it in a UK FBC print out where you have multiple results with some being more than or less than one - for them to do so obviously the ref ranges would be different 0.45 (ref 0.42 - 0.54 )

this is not even a UK site and even they dont use less than

http://www.medicinenet.com/hematocrit/page2.htm

with either , a UK GP wont take much if any notice until it reads over 52 (or 0.52)


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

there is a private london clinic that accept self referral to have venesection/therapeutic phlebotomy done for AAS reason. it's a TRT clinic.

charges is around £220 for the service.

personally, I'll try different hospital for blood donation. don't tell them you had one <3 months ago.


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

aqualung said:


> Yes i have experience in healthcare setting , and im looking at my last blood test printout.
> 
> ...but carry on


He was just sticking to using a fraction while you were using percentages.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

defdaz said:


> He was just sticking to using a fraction while you were using percentages.


i understand what he's done , ive just never seen it expressed that way in a FBC , so to do so on here is just going to confuse the **** out of people and make then think 'ooh my god im going to die my reading is 45 and its supposed to be 0.45 '  (because thats what it will say in a UK print out)

if he had put ref ranges i would not have said anything.

* ....i will also try giving my mate who i owe £45 45 pence instead and see if it works


----------



## oneman (Feb 11, 2013)

aqualung said:


> i understand what he's done , ive just never seen it expressed that way in a FBC , so to do so on here is just going to confuse the **** out of people and make then think 'ooh my god im going to die my reading is 45 and its supposed to be 0.45 '  (because thats what it will say in a UK print out)
> 
> if he had put ref ranges i would not have said anything.
> 
> * ....i will also try giving my mate who i owe £45 45 pence instead and see if it works


Yeah I understand what you're saying. All I was saying is that for patients with polycythaemia (raised haematocrit), the target range for venesection is <0.45 (or 45). Obviously I understand that there is a range used... but target of <0.45 is used when venesecting in order to minimise risks of being in a hyperviscous state


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Theseus said:


> there is a private london clinic that accept self referral to have venesection/therapeutic phlebotomy done for AAS reason. it's a TRT clinic.
> 
> charges is around £220 for the service.
> 
> personally, I'll try different hospital for blood donation. don't tell them you had one <3 months ago.


Do you know the name of this clinic please?

Google is failing me.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

pm sent


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm not 100% but i'm pretty sure @Joshua has done this.


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

i have had these tests done at both a NHS hospital and a private clinic , on both blood test printouts the range is (0.400-0.500) . It is either expressed as total ml/l or as a fraction 40-50%.


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

SK50 said:


> Do you know the name of this clinic please?
> 
> Google is failing me.


I had several done at a private clinic but i had a doctors referral . I had blood test done and venesection each one cost me £500 but that was including a private appointment with a haematologist.


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Steroid use can cause secondary polycythemia (increase in red blood cells).

Im not going to get all technical with you but a hormone produced in the liver called hepcidin is a master red blood cell regulator which regulates the amount of red blood cells entering the blood stream , When testosterone is injected hepcidin is suppressed and heamaglobin and hematocrit rises .

The only way to lower it into normal safe range is to have a venesection (blood draw) 1 pint of blood is drawn hematocrit is lowered by approx 5% but there are variables due to the biological workings of the body .

Regular blood tests are required to monitor levels and venesections done to get levels into normal range .


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

oneman said:


> Target range for a person with polycythaemia is <0.45


I had secondary polycythemia trt induced my haematologist keeps my levels at under 0.480


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

kristina said:


> Forgive my ignorance but I've just been doing a bit of reading online about this and wanted to find out more about the context in which you're talking.
> 
> Am I right in understanding that AAS causes higher percentage of hematocrit? What at the consequences of this? I'd love to learn more about this situation...and how do AAS users go about dealing with this? Also, is this applicable to anyone who juices?
> 
> My curiosity stems from my interest in science but to be honest never really read about this before.. gracias.


Steroid use can cause secondary polycythemia (increase in red blood cells).

Im not going to get all technical with you but a hormone produced in the liver called hepcidin is a master red blood cell regulator which regulates the amount of red blood cells entering the blood stream , When testosterone is injected hepcidin is suppressed and heamaglobin and hematocrit rises , high hematocrit can cause blood clots ,strokes etc . as the blood becomes too thick and does not circulate efficiently.

The only way to lower it into normal safe range is to have a venesection (blood draw) 1 pint of blood is drawn hematocrit is lowered by approx 5% but there are variables due to the biological workings of the body .

Regular blood tests are required to monitor levels and venesections done to get levels into normal range .


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

big vin said:


> Steroid use can cause secondary polycythemia (increase in red blood cells).
> 
> Im not going to get all technical with you but a hormone produced in the liver called hepcidin is a master red blood cell regulator which regulates the amount of red blood cells entering the blood stream , When testosterone is injected hepcidin is suppressed and heamaglobin and hematocrit rises , high hematocrit can cause blood clots ,strokes etc . as the blood becomes too thick and does not circulate efficiently.
> 
> ...


Aha! Yes, makes perfect sense and gives me some interesting stuff to begin reading about - thanks for summarising!


----------



## barndoor5 (Jun 16, 2013)

Isn't there a different type of blood donation you can do that is far more successful at lowering RBC count?

I want to say its called a platelet donation? Might be talking out my ****, but im sure i read that somewhere.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

barndoor5 said:


> Isn't there a different type of blood donation you can do that is far more successful at lowering RBC count?
> 
> I want to say its called a platelet donation? Might be talking out my ****, but im sure i read that somewhere.


platelet donation is different. it separates the platelet from your whole blood and re-infused the remaining blood back to you. it won't lower the haematocrit or haemoglobin concentration. it is the red blood cells that needed to be taken out.

after the blood donation, to make up to the loss in volume, your body will draw fluid into the blood vessels so that you can maintain your blood pressure. but by doing so it 'dilutes' the haemoglobin concentration and reduces the haematocrit level (which is the percentage of your red blood cells vs your plasma); it can even take 7-10 days to achieve that equilibrium again, therefore the need to repeat the blood test after and to determine whether you need further venesection/phlebotomy.

but if testosterone is continued, it will eventually stimulate more blood cells to be made from the bone marrow, which takes about 3 months to mature, the cycle can continue.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Well, I went ahead and tried it myself....

I used a 19g butterfly needle and a cuff at about 30 - 40 mmHg. I got about 100ml out but then my thick blood clogged the needle and no more would flow. So I patched it up and gave up for the day.

If I try it again I'll use a 16g and over-hydrate with lots of water and take an aspirin before doing it.

I'm not recommending this to anyone, but I have to say it's actually quite easy like the guys say on steroid.com... not much harder than doing an IM inject really, just more scary. I guess the real risk is passing out due to anxiety and/or low blood pressure, but I had someone with me just in case.


----------



## Shaftie (Apr 5, 2014)

How often do they let you donate blood and is this often enough to make a decent difference?


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

Shaftie said:


> How often do they let you donate blood and is this often enough to make a decent difference?


every 3 months.

may drop only a few points on your Haemoglobin level. they usually take approximately 1 pint of blood out of you each time. if you are approaching high end of normal range for haemoglobin concentration, good time to that; if you are way above the normal range, they will refuse your 'kind gesture to donate'.

They will do a quick finger pr**k test to determine your haemoglobin level prior to donation to ensure you are not too 'anaemic' to donate blood. but if you are polycythaemic (opposite of anaemia), they will refuse you too as worried about you might have blood disorder.

in severe cases of raised haematocrit, you might need therapeutic phlebotomy every 10 days...no blood bank will let you do that. unless of course, you travel to different centres and lie about having just donated <3months ago.


----------



## Shaftie (Apr 5, 2014)

Theseus said:


> in severe cases of raised haematocrit, you might need therapeutic phlebotomy every 10 days...no blood bank will let you do that. unless of course, you travel to different centres and lie about having just donated <3months ago.


So there's no centralised record of your donations?


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

no. there isn't....


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Theseus said:


> no. there isn't....


Isn't there?

I thought it was all done by blood.co.uk these days...

Unless you make up false names?


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

I am under the impression that each hospital trust can receive blood donation and welcome such gesture too, not as a drop in unfortunately, but by scheduled date.

Maybe I am wrong, and they no longer provide such service anymore..

In that case...false name on the form might just do the trick

or of course, go private...


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Theseus said:


> I am under the impression that each hospital trust can receive blood donation and welcome such gesture too, not as a drop in unfortunately, but by scheduled date.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong, and they no longer provide such service anymore..
> 
> ...


Oh right. Maybe you are right then. I have never heard of such a service before.

I don't think a false name is a good idea - I just mentioned that to try to second guess what you were referring to.

Personally I am going to do the NHS donation centre every 3 months then just do my own venesection at home if I ever need to. I'd prefer to keep hema < 50 rather than let it ride around the mid 50s which I imagine a lot of people do unknowingly.

Of course, none of this would apply to anyone who actually does time on = time off + pct


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Shaftie said:


> So there's no centralised record of your donations?


Once you register your information is logged and they each know when you gave blood so you cant go to different centres all the info is shared .


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

3 monthly donation is sufficient to keep haemoglobin in check..if done consistently...

such a shame with the registration then...since when NHS is so organised?...


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Piece of p1ss using a 16g needle.... 1 pint out in about 6 minutes. The other trick I found was to release the cuff to about 20 mmHg once blood flow is established.

Some of you may think I'm a loony for this, I prefer the term 'hardcore'  . Again, I am not recommending this... posting purely for educational/entertainment value.

< pic removed - probably not a good idea posting it after all >


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Theseus said:


> 3 monthly donation is sufficient to keep haemoglobin in check..if done consistently...
> 
> such a shame with the registration then...since when NHS is so organised?...


3 months donation is not sufficient to keep haemaglobin in check , it al depends on the level , i had blood test mine was well over range i had to have 8 consequitve weekly blood draws to get mine to normal range


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

I bought a finger pr**k haemoglobin meter to test myself at home. It is validated to 96% accuracy and was cheaper than a single private RBC test.

Unfortunately it doesn't test hemotocrit, but multiplying by 3 gives a reasonable enough score.

After 2 pint removals in 3 weeks, my hemaglobin is down from 17.5 to 14.6.

My hematocrit was measured at 54.5 and I assume it is now around 48 or so.. I think I feel a little better. I get less dizzy when lifting and that red face crap is 100% gone.

I am not using steroids for a bit at the moment to give myself a break. My hematocrit got very high from simply staying on steroids too long.

The 1 pint withdrawal at home was very easy and I intend to do that in future instead of spending 2 hours at a blood bank and lying about AAS usage on the form. If anyone wants the pic or instructions I'll give them by PM but they are for entertainment purposes only.


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

big vin said:


> 3 months donation is not sufficient to keep haemaglobin in check , it al depends on the level , i had blood test mine was well over range i had to have 8 consequitve weekly blood draws to get mine to normal range


definitely not enough if HCT is already very high...which is why therapeutic phlebotomy is needed in those cases...

but if regular 3 monthly blood donation is done as prophylatics, before it gets to polycythaemia, it might be sufficient to keep everything in check by having only 3 monthly blood donation...of course only relevant for people taking AAS/TRT for long period of time...as most cycle is <12 weeks; they shouldn't need a weekly therapeutic phlebotomy I think..I hope not..

Glad that your Hb is back to normal range now..


----------



## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

SK50 said:


> I bought a finger pr**k haemoglobin meter to test myself at home. It is validated to 96% accuracy and was cheaper than a single private RBC test.
> 
> Unfortunately it doesn't test hemotocrit, but multiplying by 3 gives a reasonable enough score.
> 
> ...


that's great bro... when your Hb is about 14.6, your Hct shouldn't be too high...if you know how to do that safely at home, it is indeed a lot more convenient and less hassle...


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok, I've had a couple of PMs asking me for the instructions so I'm going to post it here. I don't think it's against rules, but if mods object, feel free to remove it.

AGAIN - I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS PROCEDURE - I AM JUST STATING WHAT I DID MYSELF BASED ON INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE ORIGINAL STEROID.COM VIDEO

So, I used a 16g needle, a 4mm (outer diameter) bit of clear tubing from ebay, a manual blood pressure cuff, and a 500ml empty bottle

Inflate cuff around upper arm to around 60 mmHg to get the veins sticking out nicely. Attach the tubing to the needle (it should fit snugly). Swipe/sterilise arm. Stick the needle into the forearm vein where they do blood tests / donations. It needs to be threaded in and along into the vein so it is completely in. The needle is big, so your veins need to be nice and pumped from the cuff to get it to fit. Make sure you don't go through the other side of the vein.

The blood will immediately start to pour into the bottle as soon as you're in. Once the blood flow is established, reduce the pressure on the cuff to around 20 mmHg just to keep a slight amount of pressure to speed things up. The blood should then drain into the bottle over 3 - 10 minutes.

When it's full, just pull the needle out and bandage up. Press hard on the area for around 10 minutes to prevent bruises and internal leakage of blood.

Make sure you have someone with you, and if you feel feint at any time get that needle out and bandage up immediately.

Btw, after the 2 pint donations in 3 weeks I just measured it again and my haemoglobin is actually 13.4 (down from 17.5) and is actually now at the low end of the range - result.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

3 monthly donations will keep hematocrit in check if you are sensible about your AAS use , remember theres use and abuse , staying on for long periods of time and using multiple compounds at the same time is not use - however how much you try to justify to yourself that it is.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

aqualung said:


> 3 monthly donations will keep hematocrit in check if you are sensible about your AAS use , remember theres use and abuse , staying on for long periods of time and using multiple compounds as well is not use - however you try to justify it.


Yup, and I said this above. Casual steroid users should never have to do this or worry about it. If you have adequate time off steroids, your RBCs will return to normal.

I got myself into this situation for using too much steroids for too long (as I confessed above as well).

Some B&C'ers using heavy cruises may end up in this situation at some point though.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

SK50 said:


> Yup, and I said this above. Casual steroid users should never have to do this or worry about it. If you have adequate time off steroids, your RBCs will return to normal.
> 
> I got myself into this situation for using too much steroids for too long (as I confessed above as well).
> 
> Some B&C'ers using heavy cruises may end up in this situation at some point though.


i know , im the one that originally posted the steroid.com video sometime last year and sent the link to you  , my post was not aimed at you btw


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

aqualung said:


> i know , im the one that originally posted the steroid.com video sometime last year and sent the link to you  , mu post was not aimed at you btw


Ok, I thought you were posting for the benefit of the board, but just wanted to clarify my situation and that taking blood out in the bathroom is a rather extreme measure that most people will never have to be concerned with 

I bet this post will bring in a decent amount of Google traffic over the years if it stays up though from people with raised HTC


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

aqualung said:


> i know , im the one that originally posted the steroid.com video sometime last year and sent the link to you  , my post was not aimed at you btw


And btw thanks for the help and the video in the first place. The reason I posted mine is because I didn't find the steroid.com instructions clear at all. I couldn't figure out what he was doing with that electric BP machine and those pliers.

It took me a while to figure it out and I think my method with a manual cuff is really quite easy. I honestly couldn't imagine myself doing this - but now I look at the pics and laugh - it does seem pretty crazy. But TBH I would rather do this in future than lie on a donation form about AAS use.


----------



## nicksa (Jun 16, 2015)

Theseus said:


> there is a private london clinic that accept self referral to have venesection/therapeutic phlebotomy done for AAS reason. it's a TRT clinic.
> 
> charges is around £220 for the service.
> 
> personally, I'll try different hospital for blood donation. don't tell them you had one <3 months ago.


Hi Mate...im looking for the same clinic you mentioned in this old post....do you mind private messaging me the name and details please. It would really help.


----------



## nicksa (Jun 16, 2015)

hi SK50

having the same trouble you had in the past regarding the therapeutic phlebotomy .....do you mind telling me how you got around it ....do you perhaps have the clinic details that was referred to you. Have hit a few brick walls regarding this as i see you have in this post.

i know this is an old post..hopefully you get this and can private message me.

Kind Regards

N


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

nicksa said:


> hi SK50
> 
> having the same trouble you had in the past regarding the therapeutic phlebotomy .....do you mind telling me how you got around it ....do you perhaps have the clinic details that was referred to you. Have hit a few brick walls regarding this as i see you have in this post.
> 
> ...


Read the thread through and you'll see that I now just self bleed every 3 months. Although I don't need to anymore as I TRT on 175mg and HTC was 43 at last check.


----------



## Ekseliksis (Jul 8, 2014)

@SK50

When your hematocrit was high how were you feeling? Did you had high blood pressure?


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Ekseliksis said:


> @SK50
> 
> When your hematocrit was high how were you feeling? Did you had high blood pressure?


I don't think there was a significant change to BP. It certainly didn't drop significantly after taking a pint out.

But I noted (when HTC was 55+):

- Red face/chest/delts after shower

- Red face under exertion

- Maybe a feeling of fatigue


----------



## Ekseliksis (Jul 8, 2014)

SK50 said:


> I don't think there was a significant change to BP. It certainly didn't drop significantly after taking a pint out.
> 
> But I noted (when HTC was 55+):
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot man. I will go and check my hematocrit. I get a bitredish but I am not sure if its sunburn or hematocrit. I will do a bloodtest 2 weeks after my current blast.


----------



## Beefman147 (May 15, 2013)

A


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

@SK50

How good are the meters can you recommend one please?


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> @SK50
> 
> How good are the meters can you recommend one please?


The one I have is **** - it's the red one on Amazon. I don't recommend the home ones. I did 3 readings in a row and I got something like 48, 52, 44.

Bloods only IMO. I don't think fingerprick is great for HTC either - personal experience. Within 7 days I got 47 on fingerprick medichecks then 43 with NHS proper bloods... both at same time of day and roughly same level of hydration.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

SK50 said:


> The one I have is **** - it's the red one on Amazon. I don't recommend the home ones. I did 3 readings in a row and I got something like 48, 52, 44.
> 
> Bloods only IMO. I don't think fingerprick is great for HTC either - personal experience. Within 7 days I got 47 on fingerprick medichecks then 43 with NHS proper bloods... both at same time of day and roughly same level of hydration.


Ok

so not even medichecks is reliable .. I have read that dehydration can play a part giving a higher hematocrit reading.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Ok
> 
> so not even medichecks is reliable .. I have read that dehydration can play a part giving a higher hematocrit readings


Not 100% sure about medichecks RBC tests - it could just be hematocrit needs more blood to sample accurately? **** knows tbh, I'm guessing and just going on my own experience.

Yes, hydration is definitely a huge variable in the reading. That's why guys in the US over-hydrate before donating so their HTC is artificially lowered before the test.

Variation of 43 to to 47 does seem significant though, that's what made me question medichecks. They do use an accredited lab though.

My endo told me to ask them if they are accredited. They replied:

"Thank you for email.

I can confirm that The Doctors Laboratory complete the analysis and they have all the necessary accreditations required. "


----------



## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

SK50 said:


> Thanks man, I just found it. Excellent.


I can't believe that guy can just happily pour a bottle of his own blood down the toilet.

Blood doesn't phase me that much but that's just grim.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Deadcalm said:


> I can't believe that guy can just happily pour a bottle of his own blood down the toilet.
> 
> Blood doesn't phase me that much but that's just grim.


I made a similar video first time, I was laughing while I did it.... came out all clotty and lumpy


----------



## nicksa (Jun 16, 2015)

SK50 said:


> Read the thread through and you'll see that I now just self bleed every 3 months. Although I don't need to anymore as I TRT on 175mg and HTC was 43 at last check.


ah didn't see that

that clinic that the other member recommended for £220 ...did you check them out? I don't think I could self bleed... do you mind pm'ing me the name of the clinic he recommended if you don't mind please


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

SK50 said:


> I bought a finger pr**k haemoglobin meter to test myself at home. It is validated to 96% accuracy and was cheaper than a single private RBC test.
> 
> Unfortunately it doesn't test hemotocrit, but multiplying by 3 gives a reasonable enough score.
> 
> ...


I suffer frm elevated rbc on cycle and considered this myself

That and also 'the book im writing' has a character in it who has high rbc so could you inbox me with pics and instructions for 'entertainment purposes'


----------



## Ekseliksis (Jul 8, 2014)

swole troll said:


> I suffer frm elevated rbc on cycle and considered this myself
> 
> That and also 'the book im writing' has a character in it who has high rbc so could you inbox me with pics and instructions for 'entertainment purposes'


Go give blood.. I do it for free through NHS.. theya ctually really really want your blood..


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ekseliksis said:


> Go give blood.. I do it for free through NHS.. theya ctually really really want your blood..


already donated a few times

ill prob start doing every 12 weeks

planning on blast and cruising soon, do you think thats enough to keep rbc down?


----------



## Ekseliksis (Jul 8, 2014)

swole troll said:


> already donated a few times
> 
> ill prob start doing every 12 weeks
> 
> planning on blast and cruising soon, do you think thats enough to keep rbc down?


Last bloodwork did not indicate high RBC. It was 44 if I am not wrong. If it is I will get it as often as necessary


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

swole troll said:


> I suffer frm elevated rbc on cycle and considered this myself
> 
> That and also 'the book im writing' has a character in it who has high rbc so could you inbox me with pics and instructions for 'entertainment purposes'


Non comprendé

What specifically do you want?


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Guys, just remember that elevated RBC is an exception, not the norm. If you cruise at a sensible dosage (<200mg) then your hematocrit is likely to drop into the 40s again after 2 - 3 months, unless you are old or unlucky. You should still get tested though - a stroke or heart attack wouldn't be fun.

High RBC often means blasting too long or too heavy. I was guilty of that. Not anymore though.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

SK50 said:


> Non comprendé
> 
> What specifically do you want?


is all good man i was just yanking your chain

read through the thread and seems youve covered all bases


----------



## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

Can I just ask why dont you just go online and book to give blood with the nhs site, been on tells you when your local next sesion is


----------



## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

ollie321 said:


> Can I just ask why dont you just go online and book to give blood with the nhs site, been on tells you when your local next sesion is


That's fine m8

Just don't tell Banzi about it (he will give you some lecture how irresponsible u r donating blood full of roids)


----------



## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

Sebbek said:


> That's fine m8
> 
> Just don't tell Banzi about it (he will give you some lecture how irresponsible u r donating blood full of roids)


Thats ok mate im natty


----------



## Ghosty (Apr 3, 2016)

Theseus said:


> there is a private london clinic that accept self referral to have venesection/therapeutic phlebotomy done for AAS reason. it's a TRT clinic.
> 
> charges is around £220 for the service.
> 
> personally, I'll try different hospital for blood donation. don't tell them you had one <3 months ago.


 Hi. I'm also in the UK, and looking to get a therapeutic phlebotomy. Could you (or anyone else here) please send me a PM re a clinic? Thanks.


----------



## Ghosty (Apr 3, 2016)

big vin said:


> 3 months donation is not sufficient to keep haemaglobin in check , it al depends on the level , i had blood test mine was well over range i had to have 8 consequitve weekly blood draws to get mine to normal range


 I take it was 1 pint every week?


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Kazza61 said:


> Would be extremely easy to pull off a few large syringe fulls and squirt it down the sink so I wouldn't fancy paying good money for the service. I don't know much about hematocrit though and do wonder whether the benefit would be extremely short-lived? They do say to people who give blood that it is naturally replaced within a couple of days so I wouldn't be that convinced about doing this unless you did it every couple of days or so.
> 
> Maybe advertise for some teenage Twilight groupies to help you out?


 It's only the plasma part of the blood that's replaced in a couple of days . It takes a lot longer for red blood cells to be replaced so when you do give blood your hemstocrit is reduced and it won't be short lived


----------



## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

big vin said:


> It's only the plasma part of the blood that's replaced in a couple of days . It takes a lot longer for red blood cells to be replaced so when you do give blood your hemstocrit is reduced and it won't be short lived


 Haha. For three and half years I haven't a slept a night waiting for someone to reply to that post! Right, off to bed....


----------



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Kazza61 said:


> Haha. For three and half years I haven't a slept a night waiting for someone to reply to that post! Right, off to bed....


 Good night


----------

