# First Test e & dbol cycle - hGC - PCT ?



## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

1-4 dbol 30-40-40-40 (ed)

1-12 test e 500mg (every week)

1-15 arimidex 0.5 (e3d)

2-15 hCG 1000iu (weekly)

13-15 - 3 week gap

16-19 - clomid 100/100/75/75 (ed)

16-21 - nolva 30/30/20/20/20/20 (ed)

Hey guys,

i am 29, 5 foot 10 inches, 95kgs and have been training for over 10 yrs.

I want to start my first ever cycle. I am planning a dbol and test e cycle.

Please can you guys check out my plan and tell me if you think its ok.

I was wondering if i dont have to do hCG at all, i mean the less injections the better.

The full cycle is shown in the excel spread sheet above if you could have a look (open in new window) but this is the nuts and bolts of the cycle...

1-4 dbol 30-40-40-40 (ed)

1-12 test e 500mg (every week)

1-15 arimidex 0.5 (e3d)

2-15 hCG 1000iu (weekly)

13-15 - 3 week gap

16-19 - clomid 100/100/75/75 (ed)

16-21 - nolva 30/30/20/20/20/20 (ed)

Thanks guys i really appreciate any comments


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Can someone tell me the weeks i should be running the adex and hCG please?

I mean i am not sure if i should do adex right through the entire cycle or shall i stop it when i stop the test etc


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

33 views no replies


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

> Can someone tell me the weeks i should be running the adex and hCG please?


What you've got there is fine in that respect. Run Adex right up until PCT. Excess testosterone will continue to aromatise after your last jab. hCG from week 2 through to PCT is fine also.

Ant


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

DrRinse said:


> What you've got there is fine in that respect. Run Adex right up until PCT. Excess testosterone will continue to aromatise after your last jab. hCG from week 2 through to PCT is fine also.
> 
> Ant


Thanks a lot for your opinion.

So i dont need to run adex through pct? I guess there is no need for it as the clomid will kinda take over right?

And as for the hCG, is it essential? TBH i would rather not do it. But if you think its essential would you suggest taking the hCG up until 1 day before pct? I have read somewhere that u cant take hCG within 1 week of clomid/nolva.


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

Yes, I'd stop Adex before PCT and let Clomid / Nolva do their jobs. hCG may not be essential but then you could argue that any ancillary drug isn't essential. I'd rather keep the balls ticking over with hCG rather than let them shut down and then have to bring them right back out of hibernation in just 2-3 weeks ready for PCT. Prevention is better than cure in my book.

Ant


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah agreed mate thanks 

so would u change anything of this at all?

1-4 dbol 30-40-40-40 (ed)

1-12 test e 500mg (every week)

1-15 arimidex 0.5 (e3d)

2-15 hCG 1000iu (weekly)

13-15 - 3 week gap

16-19 - clomid 100/100/75/75 (ed)

16-21 - nolva 30/30/20/20/20/20 (ed)


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

I would maybe split the dose of HCG 500iu x2 per week.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

have you ever done a dbol & test e cycle? If so would u mind laying out your cycle here pls including pct


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

> Yeah agreed mate thanks
> 
> so would u change anything of this at all?
> 
> ...


See how you get on with Adex E3D; I'd rather go EOD but if it works for you then fine; you can always go up to EOD. 50 would be fine on weeks 3 & 4 of Clomid. Similarly, 20mg Nolva throughout is fine.

Ant


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hendrix said:


> I would maybe split the dose of HCG 500iu x2 per week.


have you ever done a dbol & test e cycle? If so would u mind laying out your cycle here pls including pct


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

DrRinse said:


> See how you get on with Adex E3D; I'd rather go EOD but if it works for you then fine; you can always go up to EOD. 50 would be fine on weeks 3 & 4 of Clomid. Similarly, 20mg Nolva throughout is fine.
> 
> Ant


I have recently been told by a mate to switch adex for aromasin. What do you think? Aromasin is better for cholesterol he said.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

DrRinse said:


> See how you get on with Adex E3D; I'd rather go EOD but if it works for you then fine; you can always go up to EOD. 50 would be fine on weeks 3 & 4 of Clomid. Similarly, 20mg Nolva throughout is fine.
> 
> Ant


I have recently been told by a mate to switch adex for aromasin. What do you think? Aromasin is better for cholesterol he said.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Someone else with experience please !

1) Do i really need a hcg on test e and dbol cycle?

2) Shall i go with aromasin or adex?

3) is 12 weeks too long for test e?

4) is 14 weeks of hcg gonna cause desensitization?

5) do i need clomid and nolva?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I will put my two cents in here.

1. I would run HCG in the cycle, recovery will be easier.

2. Adex is just fine, I did not fine aromasin all that and not very effective in treating my gyno.

3. 12 weeks is fine, but if you dropped it to 8 weeks then you may not need HCG. Longer the cycle the deeper the suppression.

4. No, not really at that dose and length, and less so if one was to use an AI.

5. I would use both myself.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> I will put my two cents in here.
> 
> 1. I would run HCG in the cycle, recovery will be easier.
> 
> ...


Thanks Hackskii, 

1) what weeks should i do hcg?

2) Do you think 2 week gap is ok?

1-4 dbol 30-40-40-40 (ed)

1-12 test e 500mg (every week)

1-15 arimidex 0.5 (e3d)

hCG ............................

13-14 - 3 week gap

15-18 - clomid 100/100/75/75 (ed)

15-20 - nolva 30/30/20/20/20/20 (ed)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Adex .5mg EOD, and probably ED with the dbol in that.

Nolva 20mg ED will be fine.

3 weeks clearance time on the Test E, keep the HCG, and adex in the mix.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Adex .5mg EOD, and probably ED with the dbol in that.
> 
> Nolva 20mg ED will be fine.
> 
> 3 weeks clearance time on the Test E, keep the HCG, and adex in the mix.


1-4 dbol 30-40-40-40 (ed)

1-12 test e 500mg (every week)

1-4 arimidex 0.5 ed *(CHANGED TO .5 ed)*

5-15 arimedex 0.5 eod

hCG *WHAT WEEKS PLEASE?*

13-15 - 3 week gap

16-18 - clomid 100/50/50/50 (ed)

16-20 - nolva 20/20/20/20/20/20 (ed) *(CHANGED TO 20 ED)*

and do you think these products are ok hackskii...

Genox (Tamoxifen Citrate) - 10mg (100 Tablets) - it does nt say generic on them! Does that matter?

Clofert-50 (Clomifene Citrate) - 50mg (10 Tablets) - clomid

Anabrez (Anastrozole) - 1mg (5 Tablets) Anabrez (Anastrozole) - 1mg - aromasin

ZYHCG 10K - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) - 10000 i.u. -

they r from unite- phar


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

HCG week 2 all the way to start of PCT.

You probably will be fine with just 3 weeks clomid at 100mg ED and 4 weeks nolva 20mg ED.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> HCG week 2 all the way to start of PCT.
> 
> You probably will be fine with just 3 weeks clomid at 100mg ED and 4 weeks nolva 20mg ED.


any good?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cant put links up with prices.

Wow, that is totally cheap, never seen prices that low.

It is a good price but never used that brand of HCG.

As cheap as that is buy extra, test it with a pregnancy kit if it shows positive, you are good to go.

Make sure you use bacteriostatic water to mix that.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Cant put links up with prices.
> 
> Wow, that is totally cheap, never seen prices that low.
> 
> ...


ok sorry.

I think it comes with the water does nt it? It has 2 bottles. I assume 1 is powder 1 is water?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Maximus Pullo said:


> ok sorry.
> 
> I think it comes with the water does nt it? It has 2 bottles. I assume 1 is powder 1 is water?


The water is sodium chloride, not sure the life of that.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> The water is sodium chloride, not sure the life of that.


ok thanks matey 

i will get some bac water.

I was going to get the 10,000 iu but would nt i end up wasting 4000 of it after i mixed it?

i mean i will only be using 500/1000iu a week and bac water is only 6 weeks right?

...

so if i mix it all up, and then do 1000 iu a week for 6 weeks i am guessing the rest would be no good?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, 1000iu a week will last probably like 6 weeks.

So, some will be lost but the price you are paying, just buy more.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Well, 1000iu a week will last probably like 6 weeks.
> 
> So, some will be lost but the price you are paying, just buy more.


yeah i just amended my order to 6 x 5000 iu so that i wont lose any


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Perfect


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Perfect


So this is it so far...

1-4 dbol 30-40-40-40 (ed)

1-12 test e 500mg/ week (split 250mg monday - 250mg thursday)

1-4 arimidex 0.5 ed

5-15 arimedex 0.5 e3d

2-15 hCG 1000iu/week (split into 2 - sunday - wednesday)

13-15 - 3 week gap

16-18 - clomid 100/100/50 (ed)

16-20 - nolva 20/20/20/20 (ed)

test e prochem

dbol blue hearts (ds)

.........................

Genox (Tamoxifen Citrate) - 10mg (100 Tablets) - it does nt say generic on them! Does that matter?

Clofert-50 (Clomifene Citrate) - 50mg (10 Tablets) - clomid

Anabrez (Anastrozole) - 1mg (5 Tablets) Anabrez (Anastrozole) - 1mg - aromasin

ZYHCG 10K - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) - 10000 i.u. -

from unite- pharmacies

*IF ANYONE SEES ANY MISTAKES PLEASE SHOUT THEM OUT *


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Run the HCG till week 16 then drop it when you start your PCT.

Adex keep an eye on, you may or may not need EOD with that but just might.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Run the HCG till week 16 then drop it when you start your PCT.
> 
> Adex keep an eye on, you may or may not need EOD with that but just might.


Hackskii someone else told me to leave a week between the last hcg and pct. I dont know what to do now?

Can you explain the logic of taking hcg right up until pct 

Thx

and......

I got 3 x 10ml of pro chem test e and 2 x 50 x 10mg of alpha pharma  I'm well happy!.. the alphabol checked out on their site too 

Just gutted cos i need aromasin (adex harsh on cholesterol and joints) but don't know where to get it!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Hackskii someone else told me to leave a week between the last hcg and pct. I dont know what to do now?
> 
> Can you explain the logic of taking hcg right up until pct


I will share my logic.

If testicular function is everything for recovery why short the HCG for testicular function?

If you are waiting for recovery and testicular stimulation would avoid a crash then why wait?

If the pituitary bounces back within days or at the most weeks with the use of SERMS, then why worry about something that needs no worries?

Who ever told you to drop the HCG early does not have a concept of what is going on.

Please invite said person or persons to this thread so I can correct them.

Glad you are asking the questions, but weigh all information for what it is.

Most of the bad information is just regurgitation anyway.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Hackskii knows his shlt


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Mey said:


> Hackskii knows his shlt


Not really.

Common sense is just common sense, if things do not sound right then it is not right.

All this stuff is basic information going back more than 12 years.

And with the new drugs available that correct said problem, even that is open for debate.

So many things out there, so many concepts, but common sense rules.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Hackskii doesn't know shlt.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Mey said:


> Hackskii doesn't know shlt.


LOL!


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Not really.
> 
> Common sense is just common sense, if things do not sound right then it is not right.
> 
> ...


Hackskii, thanks a lot mate for all your comments  They are like gold 

I will invite the guy but funny enough he said "he was told" So its all good i will go with your logic. Its makes sense


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Adex .5mg EOD, and probably ED with the dbol in that.
> 
> Nolva 20mg ED will be fine.
> 
> 3 weeks clearance time on the Test E, keep the HCG, and adex in the mix.


Hey Hackskii 

May i ask you another question?

What days should i jab? I was thinking Mon and thurs for the test but not sure when do jab the hcg ?

I will be jabbing 300mg test 2 times a week and 500mg hcg twice a week.

What do you reckon?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

If you are jabbing 600mg a week you can do it once or twice, stable blood levels mean noting in regards to gains, only sides, and that is only if it is an issue.

It will take weeks for 600mg to clear and up to even a month depending on the ester, jabbing twice a week would mean nothing, it all overlaps anyway.

If you want to jab twice a week, do it, I just dont like the idea of added scar tissue as it can accumulate over time.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> If you are jabbing 600mg a week you can do it once or twice, stable blood levels mean noting in regards to gains, only sides, and that is only if it is an issue.
> 
> It will take weeks for 600mg to clear and up to even a month depending on the ester, jabbing twice a week would mean nothing, it all overlaps anyway.
> 
> If you want to jab twice a week, do it, I just dont like the idea of added scar tissue as it can accumulate over time.


Thanks Hackskii,

I think this will be my first and last cycle tbh. I know i will lose strength and gains after but i am mentally ready to accept this 

Am i right in thinking scar tissue wont be a problem with just 12 weeks of injections?

I was wondering how often to inject the hcg? What days before or after the test? Or same day?

Thanks


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Scar tissue only becomes a problem after years, I would not worry about it, it is your call.

HCG I shoot twice a week, any days are fine, just a 1000iu a week is fine, pick any days you want out of convince.

I sub-Q that myself.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Scar tissue only becomes a problem after years, I would not worry about it, it is your call.
> 
> HCG I shoot twice a week, any days are fine, just a 1000iu a week is fine, pick any days you want out of convince.
> 
> I sub-Q that myself.


Thanks Hackskii you little gem 

So considering i am on a test e and dbol cycle, should i also inject into my gut area?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Thanks Hackskii,
> 
> I think this will be my first and last cycle tbh. I know i will lose strength and gains after but i am mentally ready to accept this
> 
> ...


I can pretty much guarentee this won't be your first and last cycle! 

I'll see you back on here when planning your next cycle lol

You can pin the hcg in your gut with slin pins

As for the test I use quads as I find these the easiest, glutes are another option of course


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hotdog147 said:


> I can pretty much guarantee this won't be your first and last cycle!


It never is!!!!!! :lol:


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> I can pretty much guarentee this won't be your first and last cycle!
> 
> I'll see you back on here when planning your next cycle lol
> 
> ...


LOOL! well lets just see ay 

Slin pins? Where is the best place to get them and bac water please? Maybe medisave?

Yeah i will be doing quads or glutes most definately


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> LOOL! well lets just see ay
> 
> Slin pins? Where is the best place to get them and bac water please? Maybe medisave?
> 
> Yeah i will be doing quads or glutes most definately


Insulin pins from medisave

Bac water is another issue! Can't get that from medisave, try a place that sell peptides mate


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Insulin pins from medisave
> 
> Bac water is another issue! Can't get that from medisave, try a place that sell peptides mate


ah that sucks! So i can get everything from medisave but 1 thing  nevermind.

Ok thanks man


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Insulin pins from medisave
> 
> Bac water is another issue! Can't get that from medisave, try a place that sell peptides mate


Terumo Syringe 1ml Insulin (U100) with 29g x 0.5 needle x100

Will these do the job? i plan to mix 5000 iu of the hcg with 5ml bac water, keep in the fridge, jab 0.5ml (500iu) twice a week.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> ah that sucks! So i can get everything from medisave but 1 thing  nevermind.
> 
> Ok thanks man


Hcg usually comes with some water, unless it's generic stuff, this is intended for single use but if you pre load all you slin pins then you can freeze them and they will be fine to use. Pull them out the freezer, leave to defrost for 5-10mins then inject... Problem solved!


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Hcg usually comes with some water, unless it's generic stuff, this is intended for single use but if you pre load all you slin pins then you can freeze them and they will be fine to use. Pull them out the freezer, leave to defrost for 5-10mins then inject... Problem solved!


Ah nice one, i did nt know that. But i think i will try to just get some bac water, if i cant i will do that.

Will they defrost in just 5 mins?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Ah nice one, i did nt know that. But i think i will try to just get some bac water, if i cant i will do that.
> 
> Will they defrost in just 5 mins?


Yeah, even less time if you hold them in your hands!

Remember, when using bac water once mixed with hcg it's only good for 6 weeks, which for me is fine because I pin 1000iu once weekly, the people who use less may have to freeze


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Yeah, even less time if you hold them in your hands!
> 
> Remember, when using bac water once mixed with hcg it's only good for 6 weeks, which for me is fine because I pin 1000iu once weekly, the people who use less may have to freeze


Wow ok thought it would take longer,

do you think these pins are ok? Terumo Syringe 1ml Insulin (U100) with 29g x 0.5 needle x100

Yep i will be doing 1000iu weekly and will be mixing 5000iu vials with 5ml and then fringing it, so with bac water it will be fine.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Wow ok,
> 
> do you think these pins are ok? Terumo Syringe 1ml Insulin (U100) with 29g x 0.5 needle x100
> 
> Yep i will be doing 1000iu weekly and will be mixing 5000iu vials with 5ml and then fringing it, so with bac water it will be fine.


Yeah they are fine mate, no need for 5ml bac though, I use 2ml and shoot 40 units on the slin pin to give me my 1000iu hcg, no need to pin extra water for no reason, some only mix 1ml bac


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Yeah they are fine mate, no need for 5ml bac though, I use 2ml and shoot 40 units on the slin pin to give me my 1000iu hcg, no need to pin extra water for no reason, some only mix 1ml bac


Ah ok... i see, nice one.

So you use 2ml for 5000iu then refrigerate the rest?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Ah ok... i see, nice one.
> 
> So you use 2ml for 5000iu then refrigerate the rest?


Yes mate


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Yes mate


Thank you very much for all the answers


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Thank you very much for all the answers


It's no bother at all mate 

What hcg are you using?


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> It's no bother at all mate
> 
> What hcg are you using?


Well i was gonna get this... ZYHCG 5K (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) - 5000 i.u.

But i heard from some people that some of their stuff is crap and/or /fake/under dosed etc

So a mate said he can get gonasi or corgophin (dont know how to spell this one lol)

What you reckon?


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

> Well i was gonna get this... ZYHCG 5K (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) - 5000 i.u.
> 
> But i heard from some people that some of their stuff is crap and/or /fake/under dosed etc


That hCG is made by a Indian Pharma company called German Remedies. Their parent company is Zydus Cadila, another Indian company. I guess this makes up the "ZY" in the ZYHCG brand name. Can't imagine it being that bad if they're a legit Pharma outfit.

Ant


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

DrRinse said:


> That hCG is made by a Indian Pharma company called German Remedies. Their parent company is Zydus Cadila, another Indian company. I guess this makes up the "ZY" in the ZYHCG brand name. Can't imagine it being that bad if they're a legit Pharma outfit.
> 
> Ant


It would be great if someone could actually vouch for this brand because it bloody dirt cheap!

BUT twice i have done hdrol prohormone cycles!... i bought mylan genox tamoxifen from united pharmacies and my nipples were itchy as hell! lool But when i used esto supress (pharma labs) they were not itchy. I really think that mylan nolva was crap but im not sure.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> It's no bother at all mate
> 
> What hcg are you using?


OK, matey just messaged me that he has 6 gonasi, 5 corgophin and 1 pregnyl..

What shall i get?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> OK, matey just messaged me that he has 6 gonasi, 5 corgophin and 1 pregnyl..
> 
> What shall i get?


Never heard of the 2nd one, I have used both the others though, either will be fine


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Never heard of the 2nd one, I have used both the others though, either will be fine


Ok so can i get 1 preg and 2 gonasi? Or is it better to get all 3 gonasi so that im doing the same stuff?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Ok so can i get 1 preg and 2 gonasi? Or is it better to get all 3 gonasi so that im doing the same stuff?


Makes no difference at all


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Makes no difference at all


OK, when i get it i will put some pics up. They don't have English on it


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

HCG will test positive on a pregnancy test, so just do that either way by the cheap stuff and if it passes, then it is good to go.


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## JuiCed-uK (Feb 7, 2012)

If this is your first cycle then I would drop the dbol, I used it in my first cycle and it was the worst thing i ever did! To me its not a good steroid at all, you will only be able to keep about 20% of the gains made from it and the bloat is just ridiculus. Also I would use aromasin instead of armidex at 12.5mg e3d. Dont use HCG on cycle. Start PCT two weeks after last shot.

My PCT is a little extreme but I dont like taking chances when it comes to my nuts  just come of a test tren cycle and I feel I have recovered well... Dont really need proviron but it helps with the sex drive soo meh...

Clomin 100/100/50/50

Nolva 40/40/20/20/10

Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

Proviron 25/25/25/25

8 Shots of HCG taken every other day at 2500iu each. First shot being first day of PCT and last will be 15 days into PCT.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

JuiCed-uK said:


> If this is your first cycle then I would drop the dbol, I used it in my first cycle and it was the worst thing i ever did! To me its not a good steroid at all, you will only be able to keep about 20% of the gains made from it and the bloat is just ridiculus. Also I would use aromasin instead of armidex at 12.5mg e3d. Dont use HCG on cycle. Start PCT two weeks after last shot.
> 
> My PCT is a little extreme but I dont like taking chances when it comes to my nuts  just come of a test tren cycle and I feel I have recovered well... Dont really need proviron but it helps with the sex drive soo meh...
> 
> ...


How old are you? Whats your height and weight please. How many cycles have you done?

This is totally different to what everyone says. I have done a hdrol cycle where i gained 14lb in 4 weeks so i know about bloat.

Also aromasin should be taken daily, so why do you suggest every 3 days?

And why not hcg? I wanna keep my balls going!


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> HCG will test positive on a pregnancy test, so just do that either way by the cheap stuff and if it passes, then it is good to go.


What do you think about Juiced-uk post Hackskii?

its above this post...


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## DrRinse (Mar 30, 2008)

ZY-HCG shows up on MIMS India. At the price, I think it's worth a punt for my next cycle.

Ant


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Makes no difference at all


Hey Hotdog. What do you think of Juiced-UKs comment...

"If this is your first cycle then I would drop the dbol, I used it in my first cycle and it was the worst thing i ever did! To me its not a good steroid at all, you will only be able to keep about 20% of the gains made from it and the bloat is just ridiculus. Also I would use aromasin instead of armidex at 12.5mg e3d. Dont use HCG on cycle. Start PCT two weeks after last shot.

My PCT is a little extreme but I dont like taking chances when it comes to my nuts just come of a test tren cycle and I feel I have recovered well... Dont really need proviron but it helps with the sex drive soo meh...

Clomin 100/100/50/50

Nolva 40/40/20/20/10

Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

Proviron 25/25/25/25

8 Shots of HCG taken every other day at 2500iu each. First shot being first day of PCT and last will be 15 days into PCT. "

It is in this thread but i pasted it here so its easy for you to find.

Do you agree or disagree?

Thanks


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Hey Hotdog. What do you think of Juiced-UKs comment...
> 
> "If this is your first cycle then I would drop the dbol, I used it in my first cycle and it was the worst thing i ever did! To me its not a good steroid at all, you will only be able to keep about 20% of the gains made from it and the bloat is just ridiculus. Also I would use aromasin instead of armidex at 12.5mg e3d. Dont use HCG on cycle. Start PCT two weeks after last shot.
> 
> ...


I completely disagree mate

1. Why let the testicles atrophy and not use hcg on cycle?! Use it and it will make recovery so much easier

2. Aromasin E3D is laughable! So forget that! Take it ED if you decide to use it

3. I wouldn't use prov in PCT if you have to to get wood then it's a failing PCT!

So in summary I would ignore everything he wrote! Lol, no offence to him of course

I will say though, that may work for him but letting the nuts go offline like that is a bad idea, although the AI is sometimes used in pct by others I personally wouldn't.

Another note, shots of 2500iu EOD in PCT is a gyno case waiting to happen IMO


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> I completely disagree mate
> 
> 1. Why let the testicles atrophy and not use hcg on cycle?! Use it and it will make recovery so much easier
> 
> ...


Thanks, i was hoping you would disagree.

A few of my mates have been doing cycles for a while now and they said their balls have gone very small because they did not run hcg throughout cycles. They have decided to start using it now though haha.

Yeah agreed, i read that Aromasin lowers estrogen for 12 hrs but then starts to rise again slowly for the next 12 hrs (24hrs altogether) and between 24 - 48 hrs estrogen increases rapidly.

 thanks again and yeah i suppose everyone is different.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Maximus Pullo said:


> What do you think about Juiced-uk post Hackskii?
> 
> its above this post...


HCG during, keeping them alive makes more sense then bringing them back to life.

I don't like the idea with an AI in the mix during PCT, testosterone will be lowish anyway and estrogen probably will be too, dropping estrogen too low does not prompt recovery any faster but could cause more sides like stiff joints, compromised lipid profiles (that are already compromised), libido issues, etc.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> HCG during, keeping them alive makes more sense then bringing them back to life.
> 
> I don't like the idea with an AI in the mix during PCT, testosterone will be lowish anyway and estrogen probably will be too, dropping estrogen too low does not prompt recovery any faster but could cause more sides like stiff joints, compromised lipid profiles (that are already compromised), libido issues, etc.


Cheers mate.

Hacksii, know anything about finasteride? Worth getting for the hair loss issue?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Cheers mate.
> 
> Hacksii, know anything about finasteride? Worth getting for the hair loss issue?


Problem with finasteride is it can cause ED issues, and also some that use it tend to not be right afterwards, and that is a mystery.


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## JuiCed-uK (Feb 7, 2012)

Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding and AI, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT.

The addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor into your PCT, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace.

Personally I dont like using HCG during cycle as it can cause desensitization if used for too long at a higher dose and ive read that you aint going to respond to it unless you are using a higher does eg 1000iu+ pw. Just because I use proviron in my PCT doesnt mean it is a failing PCT. If you read again I say its not needed! But I dont see no harm in using it so I will. And why does everyone try to denie dbol bloat?!?! even with a super clean diet and the addition of an AI you are still going to blow up like a bulldog!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

JuiCed-uK said:


> Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA


Not true, post cycle when androgens are low, estrogen is not inhibiting anything.

It is testicular atrophy that is the main inhabitance of recovery and the single biggest asset to recovery is testicular fuction.



JuiCed-uK said:


> AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%.


Clomid at 100mg a day for 5 to 7 days doubles LH output, and can increase FSH by up to 50%, an AI does not do this.



JuiCed-uK said:


> the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT.


Really?

Show me some proof to that.

Did you know that Clomid actually acts as an estrogen to the hypothalamus?



JuiCed-uK said:


> the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace.


When androgens are low, this makes no difference.

In fact driving estrogen too low can negatively affect mood, libido, lipid profiles, bone loss, and can cause stiff joints.

Adding in proviron wont do much anyway.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Problem with finasteride is it can cause ED issues, and also some that use it tend to not be right afterwards, and that is a mystery.


Ok Thanks Hackskii.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

JuiCed-uK said:


> Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding and AI, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT.
> 
> The addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor into your PCT, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace.
> 
> Personally I dont like using HCG during cycle as it can cause desensitization if used for too long at a higher dose and ive read that you aint going to respond to it unless you are using a higher does eg 1000iu+ pw. Just because I use proviron in my PCT doesnt mean it is a failing PCT. If you read again I say its not needed! But I dont see no harm in using it so I will. And why does everyone try to denie dbol bloat?!?! even with a super clean diet and the addition of an AI you are still going to blow up like a bulldog!!!


Thanks for your opinions mate, everyone's ideas and input is welcome.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Not true, post cycle when androgens are low, estrogen is not inhibiting anything.
> 
> It is testicular atrophy that is the main inhabitance of recovery and the single biggest asset to recovery is testicular fuction.
> 
> ...


Hacskii, what do you think about this cycle? Ive changed a few things after our chats


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Maximus Pullo said:


> Hacskii, what do you think about this cycle? Ive changed a few things after our chats
> 
> View attachment 85847


Wtf is that all about! Lol

Tapering off the test is unnecessary

Do either 30 or 40mg dbol

Just do the simple pct as already stated

Why are you fcking about and trying to complicate things mate?


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Wtf is that all about! Lol
> 
> Tapering off the test is unnecessary
> 
> ...


Because i keep hearing that dbol can give spots and bloat, so i wanna just test how i react to 30mg, then if i am OK i will up it to 40.

I read that if you taper off the test its better for pct. Makes recovery easier. Check this out...

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/test1.htm

What do you mean about the pct? This is what people said to do. Clomid and nolva and taper it down?


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Insulin pins from medisave
> 
> Bac water is another issue! Can't get that from medisave, try a place that sell peptides mate


I have managed to get bac water for free from the local needle exchange


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I would run 3 weeks of clomid at 100mg ED myself.

Creatine you can run your whole cycle as well.

Other than that it is ok.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> I would run 3 weeks of clomid at 100mg ED myself.
> 
> Creatine you can run your whole cycle as well.
> 
> Other than that it is ok.


OK, i have changed it again


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Looks good to me


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Looks good to me


OK, i think i am ready  Just waiting for pct bits to turn up and i am gonna start.

Hackskii, would you taper down the test?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Maximus Pullo said:


> OK, i think i am ready  Just waiting for pct bits to turn up and i am gonna start.
> 
> Hackskii, would you taper down the test?


It does not matter, jabbing 600mg of test would take a month to clear or so, so beings that you are tapering you are going to start at the same time.

If you jabbed 600mg you would have to take a month off anyway, so see how this works?


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> It does not matter, jabbing 600mg of test would take a month to clear or so, so beings that you are tapering you are going to start at the same time.
> 
> If you jabbed 600mg you would have to take a month off anyway, so see how this works?


Sorry i dont understand. I dont know why the guy said in his post that its good to taper down the test.

Did you look at the link i posted? The guy said to taper down test. But i wont do it now if you and others say there is no point.


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## Ukmeathead (Dec 4, 2010)

Hey max!

Ive exceeded my 5 private messages for the next 60mins lol

But your cycle looks spot on similar cycle to my first i personally don't think you would need to change a thing.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

OK here is simple

Bang more gear, take longer to clear.

Bang more gear with a longer ester, take even longer to clear.

Once gear is clearing it is working.

Once gear is cleared, it works no more.


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

Good solid cycle. Exactly how I will run minus the Dianabol.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Ukmeathead said:


> Hey max!
> 
> Ive exceeded my 5 private messages for the next 60mins lol
> 
> But your cycle looks spot on similar cycle to my first i personally don't think you would need to change a thing.


Lol ok! Message me anytime.

Ok thanks for the feedback, i cant wait to start it  I have gone from 9 stone to 15 stone naturally so cant wait to see what i will achieve with the old juice in the mix


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> OK here is simple
> 
> Bang more gear, take longer to clear.
> 
> ...


So you are saying that tapering is worthless... if its in the blood its on the blood! and that's it?


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Natty.Solider said:


> Good solid cycle. Exactly how I will run minus the Dianabol.


Cheers man. Have you ever done a cycle? I was at first going to do a cycle of just test e but i really think i can handle the dbol because of my experience with pro hormones (bloating, fast gain etc)


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## Natty.Solider (May 4, 2012)

No, not yet. But thats pretty much exactly how it will run after alot of research. Not doing an oral because I've never done a pro hormone etc. The hardest stuff I've been on is creatine lol


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Natty.Solider said:


> No, not yet. But thats pretty much exactly how it will run after alot of research. Not doing an oral because I've never done a pro hormone etc. The hardest stuff I've been on is creatine lol


Lol ok. Yeah i love the old creatine. I also have done 2 cycles of h drol but in my opinion was a load of crap. I gained 14lbs in 6 week and lost 11lbs during pct. Well actually 3 lbs is ok gain for 6 weeks to be honest.

Well, gimme a message when you plan to start it and maybe i can share my experience. Maybe i will do a log when i start the cycle.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> It does not matter, jabbing 600mg of test would take a month to clear or so, so beings that you are tapering you are going to start at the same time.
> 
> If you jabbed 600mg you would have to take a month off anyway, so see how this works?


Hi Hackskii,

Its been a while since we have spoken. Cheers for all your advice in the past.

I am currently on day 1 of week 9 of this cycle. I have gained 18lbs so far so i am reasonably pleased.

I have recently been thinking of doing anavar for the last 4 weeks of my cycle (9-12) and stop it before the 2-3 week gap before i start pct.

so..

Week 1-12 test e

Week 1-4 dbol

*Week 8-12 anavar*

week 13-15 gap

16-20 pct

Would this be ok? Would i need to modify pct if i use anavar?

Also i have puffy nips will anavar help that?

Thanks in advance mate


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

Hi guys,

I am currently on day 1 of week 9 of this cycle. I have gained 18lbs so far so i am reasonably pleased.

I have recently been thinking of doing anavar for the last 4 weeks of my cycle (9-12) and stop it before the 2-3 week gap before i start pct.

so..

Week 1-12 test e

Week 1-4 dbol

Week 8-12 anavar

week 13-15 gap

16-20 pct

Would this be ok? Would i need to modify pct if i use anavar?

Also i have puffy nips (not gyno) will anavar help that?

Thanks in advance


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

That would be fine, could run the anavar while the test is clearing, your choice.


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> That would be fine, could run the anavar while the test is clearing, your choice.


so it would nt complicate the pct?


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## Maximus Pullo (Aug 19, 2011)

hackskii said:


> That would be fine, could run the anavar while the test is clearing, your choice.


Thanks for your reply hackskii.

I just got pc winstrol instead. I wanted anavar but he only had winny.

So will this be fine?

week 9 - 12 - 50mg winny ED (maybe 100mg)

Do you know the best time of the day to take the winny is? Thanks mate


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Winny is fine, it does tend to give me stiff joints though and some anxiety.


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