# Keto expert / tutor /metor required.



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

As in my journal l am going away in 9 weeks.

I need help to do a cut and l am going to try the keto route.

NOW l am a complete retard where this kind of thing is concerned so what l need is very specific help. Someone very patient who will guide me thro the whole process.

What l can and cant eat, meal suggestions etc..

I am a VERY bland eater l dont know if this is relelvant, l have never worked out my makro's or calorie intake BUT l am willing to give it my all for the sake of the right help to get me in shape for my holiday.

I am even willing to reward anyone who steps up to the mark.

I dont usually do serious posts on here so you can see that l am desperate..

Come on guys and girls dont let a brother go on holiday fat !

:thumbup1:


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## Mr White (Feb 8, 2009)

Workout your maintenance intake, and go 10% below it while on ketogenic diet.

Aim for 70% of your calories to come from fat, rest from protein.

Food:

Eggs, Beef, Olive oil, avocado, almond.

You can eat any meat, as long as you have 3:7 protein to fat in your meal over all. I aim for 30g of protein and 35g of fat in each meal.

You cant eat carbohydrates while on keto, it takes around 2 days for your body to kick into keto, thus if you have a carb meal every 2 days you will never achieve keto.

If you buy any processed food, make sure that is has no crabs.

Do a carb up once every 7-10 days, start right after your workout and continue having carbs in your meals for next 24-36 hours. Start and finish with liquid carbs.

Cut fat intake down to minimum while carbing up.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Is it roughly the same as the atkins then mate ?


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Mr White said:


> I aim for 30g of protein and 35g of carbs in each meal.


I hope thats a mistake


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## Mr White (Feb 8, 2009)

gemilky69 said:


> Is it roughly the same as the atkins then mate ?


Yeah it combines atkins and old 3 days no carb, 3 days high carb diet.



Raptor said:


> I hope thats a mistake


 Sure it is. Thanks.


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## ticmike (Oct 31, 2010)

I started Keto yesterday mate, and i know its only 1 day but if you stick to the food timings and follow the diet to the tee, you never feel hungry so a lot less likley to eat sh*t.

It is strict though, lol


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey milky

This thread is excellent for keto

Ausbuilt breaks it down really well and there is a list of foods by someone you can eat

Use this for your cals and macros


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> Hey milky
> 
> This thread is excellent for keto
> 
> ...


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## Taylor25 (May 24, 2010)

Milky ausbuilt it the daddy when it comes to keto diets really helped me get my head round things, I'm sure he'll be along soon to offer some advice.

As for my keto I'm going 500 below maintenance, my meals will be a lot of tuna & mayo, cheese omelettes, EVO, chicken and cheese, to be honest I think I'll eat all forms of eggs because they seem so simple on this diet.

Download and read the book aus recommends on this thread it's well worth a read I found it hard to understand but if you have any questions after post on here I'm sure the more knowledgeable guys will be happy to help.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/138425-keto-books.html


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Can anyone please tell me what drinks are acceptable on Keto as well.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

gemilky69 said:


> Can anyone please tell me what drinks are acceptable on Keto as well.


water


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## Taylor25 (May 24, 2010)

gemilky69 said:


> Can anyone please tell me what drinks are acceptable on Keto as well.


According to a few on here diet soft drinks can stop you getting into keto so avoid them if you can. Avoid protein shakes too apart form your carb up at the weekend where the essential


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

milky wheres your journal at ?


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

uhan said:


> milky wheres your journal at ?


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/139842-10-weeks-turkey.html

So basically its water, thats it.

No post work out shakes, no protein shakes, just the foods mentioned already ?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Yes water, and plenty of it..Aim to get at least 3 ltrs into you per day.

It's the asparthme in diet drinks that can kick some people out of keto, so, unless you have a bg monitor, then yes best to avoid.

Keto makes me pis5 a lot !!!!! haha


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

gemilky69 said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/139842-10-weeks-turkey.html
> 
> So basically its water, thats it.
> 
> No post work out shakes, no protein shakes, just the foods mentioned already ?


When I did keto I had two shakes in between meals, so I just made sure my 2nd shake was after my work out, but it shud just be whey.

As for drinks I'd say water and black coffee, bit bland I know


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

powerhousepeter said:


> When I did keto I had two shakes in between meals, so I just made sure my 2nd shake was after my work out, but it shud just be whey.
> 
> As for drinks I'd say water and black coffee, bit bland I know


If you do have shakes, make sure you add fats into it..Pure protein can kick you out of keto


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> If you do have shakes, make sure you add fats into it..Pure protein can kick you out of keto


correct- you need to add at least double cream, or oil or MCT (BEST!!); Micellar Casein is better than whey, as its slower absorption.

However as I've said before, shakes are just a "habit" people think they need- on keto, you eat nothing but protein and fat- you get enough protein (and whole food protein fills you up, and keto is PROTEIN SPARING- your body CANT burn aminos/protein for energy when in ketosis- this happens on ANY OTHER DIET when you go low carb- your body burns proteins.. its called gluconeogenesis)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

but in ketosis you burn ONLY ketones for energy, which can ONLY come from fats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenesis

you can drink any diet soda (diet coke, coke zero, pepsi max, pepsi light, fanta zero etc); except ones with "real fruits" such as orangina light which still has 8cals (sugar) per 100mL, so knocking back a litre can put you out of keto (keep under 30g carbs/day).

Black coffee is fine- milk is not (lactose is a milk sugar).

vodka and white spirits are fine- they have no sugar (brown spirits may have more residual sugar, mostly rum, scotch tends to be fine); alcohol actually converts to ketones easier than fats.. so when you drink spirits- you won't get out of ketosis- but you need to burn the alcohol cals before you burn fats as the alcohol converts faster than the fats..

you could do lemon tea etc- use an artificial sweetner and a small squeeze of fresh lemon juice, black tea, green tea etc just use artificial sweetner.

hope that helps

You can always pm me if you have something urgent that I havent' answered on the forum (may miss it on the forum)


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

reps for the thread milky, as you know ive decided on keto starting tomorrow and im logged on to get a shopping list for tesco later...Ausbuilt, this may seem a stupid question, but being on a ECA Stack, will it affect being in Ketossis or not


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## DILLZ (Mar 27, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> correct- you need to add at least double cream, or oil or MCT (BEST!!); Micellar Casein is better than whey, as its slower absorption.
> 
> However as I've said before, shakes are just a "habit" people think they need- on keto, you eat nothing but protein and fat- you get enough protein (and whole food protein fills you up, and keto is PROTEIN SPARING- your body CANT burn aminos/protein for energy when in ketosis- this happens on ANY OTHER DIET when you go low carb- your body burns proteins.. its called gluconeogenesis)
> 
> ...


As ive said before, you're a god.


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> you can drink any diet soda (diet coke, coke zero, pepsi max, pepsi light, fanta zero etc)


Hi Ausbuilt, I was under the impression that diet drinks can kick you out of ketosis due to the asparthme.

Is that not the case?


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Tassotti said:


> Hi Ausbuilt, I was under the impression that diet drinks can kick you out of ketosis due to the asparthme.
> 
> Is that not the case?


Some people claim to be knocked out of ketosis due to them, but I'd bet the vast majority aren't. Ive stayed in ketosis whilst drinking pepsi max all day.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

ausbuilt for uk-m god


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

By adding an oil to a shake is EVOO adequate ?

I am sorry for being such a thico on this, l am just keen to get it as close to right as l can...

Cheers for all the help so far as well people, really am trying to soak it all up.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Why don't you just pay Con or XJPX to do you a diet plan mate?

They'll do you a training plan along with it to so you get he best out of the time you've got.


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

gemilky69 said:


> By adding an oil to a shake is EVOO adequate ?
> 
> I am sorry for being such a thico on this, l am just keen to get it as close to right as l can...
> 
> Cheers for all the help so far as well people, really am trying to soak it all up.


EVOO is fine mate.

The only reason to drink a shake though is for a change from water. You will be getting plenty of protein from the diet itself.

Measurement example

25g MP choc mint whey

Fat 2g, Carb 2g, Prot 22g

25ml Filipo EVOO

Fat 23g, Carb 0g, Prot 0g

This is where food focus comes in handy


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Milky,

I'm currently doing keto for 8weeks. Easiest way is find ur body fat percentage, once u know this you know your lean bodymass. Eat 1 gram protein & fat per pound of lean body mass. Keep carbs under 20 (no direct sources).

U say u like bland mate, my diet is eggs, chicken & evoo & 100% beef burgers. Lots of water and that's it.

I carb up every 14th day and keep fat very low. Simples


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Smitch said:


> Why don't you just pay Con or XJPX to do you a diet plan mate?
> 
> They'll do you a training plan along with it to so you get he best out of the time you've got.


Good idea mate but TBH l want to stick with UKM on this one.

Lot of respect for the 2 guys mentioned but l want to share my experiences with the guys on here if that makes sense.


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## Aggression (Apr 13, 2009)

Diet soda's fine, seen plenty of vids where Dave Palumbo advocates them. Black coffee/tea, anything without sugars/carbs and your g2g.


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## Mr Mongol (Mar 20, 2011)

I'd say avoid drinking black coffee or diet sodas if you can...

I've lost 23kg in 4 months,so surely Keto diet does work very well only when you follow it right.

I've got a BG monitor and I ve checked every 15,30,45min for couple of times after drinking diet soda and black coffee.

Maybe it's only me ,but they did kicked me out of it.


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## danny1871436114701 (May 2, 2010)

I have just read Lyle Mcdonalds UD.20 very good read and easy to understand, it is based and adapted from the original Dan Duchaine Body Opus diet, I am gathering INFO for when I want a recomp or a cut, something different from the norm etc

The UD2 sets out a 4 days training plan, consisting of depletion workouts, tension workout and a power workout, all in which you have a massive carb refeed day etc.

But Ausbuilt seems the man for keto so he may clarify more in layman terms etc


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## immy (Apr 18, 2010)

For more info on keto drop Dave Palumbo a e-mail apparently he doesn't mind answering specific questions but their may be some he wont answer and reserve for clients only.


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## massiccio (Nov 17, 2010)

After reading all the tread : ausbuilt know his stuff to bits , I found his posts very helpful.

Black coffe should be fine, without sugar. Caffeine should help. I used some A-L- carnitine too , when on keto.

the 70% cals from fat is correct, but become a problem for some BB's : let's guess one weight 100kg /220lb. Training require more protein on the diet.

Aim for 250gr of protein= 1000cals

70% from fat = 2333cals

total = 3333cals ~

This can be a problem for a lot of people, how can you get a deficit if the total cals to match the minimal protein goes so high? Unless one has a physical job and does burn lots everyday, problems will arise with the 70%-30% formula.

One way around it is heavy use of MCT.

MCT make a keto work with a 50/50 cals split. Coconut oil is about 50% MCT. Dessicated coconut is cheap, 67%oil content ( some carbs , careful). Coconut oil from asian supermarket is cheap, carb free. Suggested max daily consumption is 60 grams, that is about 500 cals. oily fish , chicken tights or legs, minced beef , or meat wit reasonable fat attached will provide adeguate balance of those remaining cals . Roughly those meat are between 20/25grams proteins x 100gr row, with 5 to12 % fat content, and a good balance of different fats. Fish in particolar became very effective on the latter stage due to the leptin upgrading propriety .

Add some eggs , I like a mix of one yolk every two eggs, say I break ten ,keep 5 yolks. Cooked in olive oil, or coconut oil, no matter, I use very little oil anyway.

Because keto still need a caloric deficit to work. And keto WILL drop your metabolic rate. OK , the weekly carb up help a little in that, but the BMS will drop over 9 weeks dieting.

Another issue, keto may take up to two weeks to kick in, less in training athletes.To speed that up, deplete your liver and muscle glycogen storages as fast as you can.

That's also the dreadfull feeling part of the no carbs diet, supposedly the body use glycogenesis at that middle stage , which is slightly catabolic.The sooner you enter ketosys, the better you'll be.

For that, I found this helpful: draining training session, to exaustion, and over, high volume , high reps , all the lot, trow the sink in too. Done in fast succession , like a 3 way split over 3 day, or even morning, evening , morning. Train all the body with as little rest between sessions. Train a lot and deeply. Weight isn't the deal here, you wanna suck out all the glycogen . High reps , minimal rest between sets, no carbs. Cardio help too. The old fasted one LISS its fine , but at this early stages , sprinting may have better , or additional results. Something like HIIT, on any machine, rower, tread, cycle.

Or even something like intense circuit training.

The aim is to lower glycogen quickly , to enter ketosys as soon as possible. With some effort s, 2 or 3 days will be sufficent. Then you're in and go back to your preferred routines.

Have fun

edit : 60gr coco oil 500cals + 300gr protein 1200cals, 75 gr from fat caming with the proteins = 670 Cals

TOTAL 2370CALS STARTING POINT

play with the remaining fats calories count to reach you caloric target. IE USE MORE LEAN CUTS TO REDUCE THE TOTAL, OR MORE FATTY PROTEIN SOURCES TO INCREASE IN ( NO NEED IMO).

LOTS of fibrous veg,with near zero carbs content... sorted


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## ticmike (Oct 31, 2010)

I see you say bacon, cheese and mayo is all ok on Keto, what size portions would you have, as im day 2 into Keto and just looking to mix it up a bit.

Not trying to hijack your thread just thought the info may help everyone.

*vodka and white spirits are fine- they have no sugar (brown spirits may have more residual sugar, mostly rum, scotch tends to be fine); alcohol actually converts to ketones easier than fats.. so when you drink spirits- you won't get out of ketosis- but you need to burn the alcohol cals before you burn fats as the alcohol converts faster than the fats..*

So i could have the odd rum & diet coke every now and again and it wont be an issue?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

ticmike said:


> I see you say bacon, cheese and mayo is all ok on Keto, what size portions would you have, as im day 2 into Keto and just looking to mix it up a bit.
> 
> Not trying to hijack your thread just thought the info may help everyone.
> 
> ...


correct- i put the last bit in as I'm realistic- people may still want to be social.... so yes a spirit + DIET COKE mix is fine, and can make for a better night out..


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> correct- i put the last bit in as I'm realistic- people may still want to be social.... so yes a spirit + DIET COKE mix is fine, and can make for a better night out..


I am lucky in l never touch alcohol TBH...

Been trying to work meals out very basic stuff, mince and veg for tea etc...bacon and eggs for brekky and cold chicken for dinner...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

gemilky69 said:


> I am lucky in l never touch alcohol TBH...
> 
> Been trying to work meals out very basic stuff, mince and veg for tea etc...bacon and eggs for brekky and cold chicken for dinner...


good for you...

as for meals- keto is cheap- think mince (chicken/turkey/beef/pork etc) rather than actual cuts- frying mince increases the surface are for fat absorption..


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

One of the best things about keto is you don't have to spend a small fortune on lean cuts of steak/chicken/mince etc. The cheap fattier bits are perect...and tastier! Noubt better than a crispy chicken thigh with skin! Fatty lamb and pork are g2g too!

EDIT: God beat me too it lol


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> good for you...
> 
> as for meals- keto is cheap- think mince (chicken/turkey/beef/pork etc) rather than actual cuts- frying mince increases the surface are for fat absorption..


I have often thought this on a slight tangent, eating sh*te is far less expensive than eating a decent diet..


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## ticmike (Oct 31, 2010)

How would this be for a keto diet plan?

Will be supplementing with x3- 1000mg Fish Oil and x3 1000mg Primrose oil aswell as Meds.

Will be drinking mainly water and diet coke (max 2 a day)

Meal 1- 5 whole eggs, 2 rashers of bacon

Meal 2- 50g Protein (isolate or very low carb) and 15g Natural Peanut Butter (shakes would be Maxi Raw Isolate 50g= 1.75g or Bodybuilding Warehouse 50g = 8.5g Carbs)

Meal 3- 225G Chicken Breast & 15g Walnuts.

Meal 4- 50g Protein (isolate or very low carb) and 15g Natural Peanut Butter

Meal 5- Fatty Protein Meal (red meat, salmon, tuna (with added Evoo or Mayo), and green salad

Meal 6- 5 Whole Eggs

Reason for the shakes is for convenience due to the nature of my work.

Im no expert in Keto and just trying to learn so feel free to rip this apart if need be !!


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Re protein shakes ;

I have just bought some USN IGF protein ... it has 2.2g of protein per serving would this be ok to take ?


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## ticmike (Oct 31, 2010)

gemilky69 said:


> Re protein shakes ;
> 
> I have just bought some USN IGF protein ... it has 2.2g of protein per serving would this be ok to take ?


Fom what ive been reading on here and on MT, that protein should be fine as 56g (2 scoops) is only 2.2g Carbs.

Just waiting for someone in the know to checkout my plan above, hope its good to go as it looks quite nice on paper (or screen,lol)


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Right another issue

What can l put in my coffee instead of milk ??


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## kernowgee (Jan 30, 2011)

I do not believe continuous use of any protein powders on a keto is desirable, even isolate.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

kernowgee said:


> I do not believe continuous use of any protein powders on a keto is desirable, even isolate.


I mean as an emergency mate not continually..


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

gemilky69 said:


> Right another issue
> 
> What can l put in my coffee instead of milk ??


lactose free milk i think ..

as aus said lactose is the sugar in milk so lacto free milk should be cool ............... wait for experts


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

gemilky69 said:


> I have often thought this on a slight tangent, eating sh*te is far less expensive than eating a decent diet..


its more a fact that on a keto diet you can get away with cheaper cuts of meat; however for overall health I don't eat bacon (or any processed meat) so that i keep my salt intake reasonable. From a ketosis perspective, any fat will do- from a health perspective, fried salmon with mayo is a reasonably healthy choice, but a little more expensive.. the BIGGEST saving on a keto diet? DITCH the protein powders- ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS on keto... here's why:

1. Keto is the ONLY diet where your body CANNOT strip muscle for energy!! (on ANY carb-based diet, when you are low in carbs- your body burns amino acids, from your muscle, as I've noted above in a process called gluconeogenesis)

2. Keto food is only protein & fat and INCIDENTAL carbs (should come from fibrous leafy veg like salad leaves etc, not from protein powders- as for the protein you can have carb free protein- eggs & meat).

3. 30% protein is ample (form WHOLE foods) in a diet where NO protein is burned for energy

4. When in keto, you are protein SPARING, but NOT in an anabolic phase- you cannot BUILD muscle, merely preserve it (true on any DIET- you can't be in a calorie deficit and be anabolic)

BUT

You CAN use powders- during the carb-up, I recommend 50g whey EVERY 2 HOURS with 1.5g of SIMPLE carbs per lean Kg bodymass, and 2g of creatine as well as an optional 20mg d-bol for the first 6-8 hours.. (change to mix of simple and complex carbs after 8hours up to the 24hour mark) this is a VERY anabolic rebound and you CAN make use of the whey...



ticmike said:


> How would this be for a keto diet plan?
> 
> Will be supplementing with x3- 1000mg Fish Oil and x3 1000mg Primrose oil aswell as Meds. save your money; ditch these- just buy a big bottle Udo's choice- PERFECT.. and Melrose MCT oil
> 
> ...


 basic rule- equal amounts of grams of protein and fat in a meal- and you can't go wrong..



gemilky69 said:


> Re protein shakes ;
> 
> I have just bought some USN IGF protein ... it has 2.2g of protein per serving would this be ok to take ?


it can be fine as long as you add 50g of fat to your shake- otherwise you won't be in keto.. whey shakes can spike your BG to 6.0 (many on here can attest to not reaching keto owing to whey shakes without added fat..). I have the same protein (i like the strawberry) its not 100% whey, but its still no good without added fat.. you can try adding double cream to it... but even that has 5g or so of carbs per 50g (check yours) and if added to 2.2g you're at 7.2g of carbs.. and you only want 30g of carbs in a day- so it may be ok- depends on your other meals...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

engllishboy said:


> Some people claim to be knocked out of ketosis due to them, but I'd bet the vast majority aren't. Ive stayed in ketosis whilst drinking pepsi max all day.


 usually its some other part of the diet... but they blame diet drinks. Mind you, not all diet drinks are created equal- as I said, some like Orangina light have 8 cals per 100mL from carbs (sucralose/juice mix). However good old fashioned coke/pepsi diet drinks are so artificial you have no probs.

You can prove it to yourself- test your BG, drink 500mL and test your BG again.... no shift...



gemilky69 said:


> By adding an oil to a shake is EVOO adequate ?
> 
> I am sorry for being such a thico on this, l am just keen to get it as close to right as l can...
> 
> Cheers for all the help so far as well people, really am trying to soak it all up.


EVOO is fine... in a shake i'd prob use canola or sunflower oil- I don't like the idea of an olive flavoured shake (Udo's oil is best- but expensive).



Smitch said:


> Why don't you just pay Con or XJPX to do you a diet plan mate?
> 
> They'll do you a training plan along with it to so you get he best out of the time you've got.


How much do they charge??


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## kernowgee (Jan 30, 2011)

gemilky69 said:


> Right another issue
> 
> What can l put in my coffee instead of milk ??


Small amount of double cream


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

There's 2g carb in 40ml of semi-skimmed milk.

I'm sure you can have a couple of cups of tea/coffee a day.


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## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

gemilky69 said:


> As in my journal l am going away in 9 weeks.
> 
> I need help to do a cut and l am going to try the keto route.
> 
> ...


You aint more retarded than me bro. The other day I sent a PM to one of the members on this forum asking them to help me with keto... I didn't even know what keto was!! I thought keto was an oral steroid..LOL


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Right...

Just had 3 burgers, broccoli and carrots for my tea with a can of pepsi max...

Is this ok ?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

lose the carrots

check the carbs in the burgers


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> lose the carrots
> 
> check the carbs in the burgers


The burgers were 100 % beef mate and on your advice l left the carrots on the plate...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

You prob need a bit more fat in this meal..drink a shot of evoo.

Have you worked out a diet gem?

what daily cals you aiming for

each meal should be equal ie 30g P, 30g F


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

veg with lowest carbs

broccoli

asparagus

spinach

cauliflower


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

check the ingrediants on the burgers milky, my burgers i get from sainsbury are 23g pro, 17g fat and 0.1 carbs. ingrediants are beef, salt, pepper.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> You prob need a bit more fat in this meal..drink a shot of evoo.
> 
> Have you worked out a diet gem?
> 
> ...


This is where struggle TBH mate, l cant work out sh*t....

All l am going to do is try and be strict and keep to what l am advised.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> veg with lowest carbs
> 
> broccoli
> 
> ...


I only like bloody broccoli out of that lot..


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

mate you said your 17.5 stone. lets say 20% body fat give or take giving you around 200lbm.

eat 200g pro and 200 g fat. under 30 g carbs

after a couple weeks can reduce fat intake a little to keep fat loss ticking over


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## Thunderstruck (Sep 20, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> You prob need a bit more fat in this meal..drink a shot of evoo.
> 
> Have you worked out a diet gem?
> 
> ...


Im not sure thats correct, im pretty sure fat should be the highest portion due to trying to get the body to use fat for fuel.


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Thunderstruck said:


> Im not sure thats correct, im pretty sure fat should be the highest portion due to trying to get the body to use fat for fuel.


protein = 4 kcal and fat = 9kcal

so equal gram amounts will mean fats get the largest percentage of the diet.


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Thunderstruck said:


> Im not sure thats correct, im pretty sure fat should be the highest portion due to trying to get the body to use fat for fuel.


It will be

4 Kcals in 1g protein

9 Kcals in 1g fat


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## Thunderstruck (Sep 20, 2010)

ooooh i see now, its down to the number from protein/fat calories not portion size!!!!


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Growing Lad said:


> mate you said your 17.5 stone. lets say 20% body fat give or take giving you around 200lbm.
> 
> eat 200g pro and 200 g fat. under 30 g carbs
> 
> after a couple weeks can reduce fat intake a little to keep fat loss ticking over


This will generate 2720 Kcals per day.

Have 6 meals per day

Each meal should be 33g F and 33g P.

Call it 30g each meal and this will bring you to 2460 Kcals

That's about right from looking at you. (Obviously I don't know what your metabolism is like)


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Tassotti said:


> This will generate 2720 Kcals per day.
> 
> Have 6 meals per day
> 
> ...


was gna edit my post and say just have 6 meals of 30/30 and will put calories at about 10 per pound of bw which is ideal for losing fat in a 9 week timescale. :thumbup1:


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

gemilky69 said:


> I only like bloody broccoli out of that lot..


MTFU and eat that horrible shiit....lol


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> MTFU and eat that horrible shiit....lol


I cant mate, l am a pussy l admit it !


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

cabbage?


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> cabbage?


Why get personal !!


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I eat loads of cabbage. Does that make me a cannibal? :confused1:


----------



## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Mingster said:


> I eat loads of cabbage. Does that make me a cannibal? :confused1:


No, it makes you polish :lol:


----------



## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

gemilky69 said:


> I only like bloody broccoli out of that lot..


Try boiling some cauliflower, then add butter, a splash of double cream, some cheese (I use mexicana) and mash it all together. Makes a great mash potato replacement and goes great with steak!


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

engllishboy said:


> Try boiling some cauliflower, then add butter, a splash of double cream, some cheese (I use mexicana) and mash it all together. Makes a great mash potato replacement and goes great with steak!


Now that sounds good....nom nom nom


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Here's a meal for you mate

100g smoked peppered mackerel 344Kcals, 30g Fat, 0g Carbs, 20g Protein

150g broccoli 36Kcals, 1g Fat, 2g Carbs, 5g Protein

50g green beans 11Kcals, 0g Fat, 2g Carbs, 1g Protein

*Totals*

391 Kcals, 31g Fat, 4g Carbs, 26g Protein

Now, tell me you don't like fish or runner beans...lol


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> Here's a meal for you mate
> 
> 100g smoked peppered mackerel 344Kcals, 30g Fat, 0g Carbs, 20g Protein
> 
> ...


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Peanut butter chicken

credit to s3 for this

check out some of his meal posts


----------



## jim. (Jun 8, 2009)

I enjoy chicken stuffed with garlic/herb butter. Then greens (brocolli, French beans & spinach) make a sauce from full fat philidelphia, butter and a bit of stock. Used to make the vegetables more bearable and more fat to the meal.


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Just had ;

Mince and green beans....

Is that ok ??


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

weights?

minced what?


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

Milky said:


> Just had ;
> 
> Mince and green beans....
> 
> Is that ok ??


You started from today bud?


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Irish lean steak mince, not that lean TBH

200 grammes

And fu*k knows on the veg, the mrs made it.


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Is there anyway of telling if your in Keto without a BG monitor?


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

First off, forget lean, you want fat, the fattier the better


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

sakso said:


> You started from today bud?


Yeah sort of..

I tried yesterday but it went Pete Tong thro being unprepared with moving house at the weekend etc..


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> First off, forget lean


Like l say mate it really wasnt that lean....


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

Milky said:


> Yeah sort of..
> 
> I tried yesterday but it went Pete Tong thro being unprepared with moving house at the weekend etc..


mate, could you please create a journal or some sort so I/we can follow? I also love to do this keto thing. I'm just trying to gather some diet information and then will start...


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

you need to start getting in there and reading labels and stuff

veg should be fine

Eat a big spoonful of full-fat mayonnaise


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

sakso said:


> mate, could you please create a journal or some sort so I/we can follow? I also love to do this keto thing. I'm just trying to gather some diet information and then will start...


I was thinking of just keeping this going TBH....

Post up my meals daily and let people teek them...

What do you think ?/

People are diving in and helping which is fantastic for me...


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Tassotti said:


> Eat a big spoonful of full-fat mayonnaise


Turns my stomach reading that!


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

Milky said:


> I was thinking of just keeping this going TBH....
> 
> Post up my meals daily and let people teek them...
> 
> ...


That's an idea mate. I was just going to nick your meal ideas from you TBH.


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

sakso said:


> That's an idea mate. I was just going to nick your meal ideas from you TBH.


I am doing the same thing....

Breakfast was

2 x Weetabix

3 x fried eggs

3 x bacon

Dinner

Half a chicken

Tuna mayo sandwich on wholemeal bread, full fat mayo...

Tea

Mince and veg..


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

dear oh dear..where to fcuking start.....lol


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

Milky said:


> I am doing the same thing....
> 
> Breakfast was
> 
> ...


nice one matey. one question though! don't they say you don't have to eat any carbs in keto?


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

Tassotti said:


> dear oh dear..where to fcuking start.....lol


what happened mate?


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> dear oh dear..where to fcuking start.....lol


Explain please mate...


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Milky said:


> I am doing the same thing....
> 
> Breakfast was
> 
> ...


Remove the stuff in red


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

sakso said:


> what happened mate?


I think Milky is probably pulling your leg:whistling:


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

sakso said:


> nice one matey. one question though! don't they say you don't have to eat any carbs in keto?


NOW

This is where confusion kicks in because l am sure l was told to try and have minimul carbs am and none in the evening by someone at the gym and this may have thrown me slightly...

Fu*k me its complicated...


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> Remove the stuff in red


Yeah penny just dropped there mate,

Like l say conflicting advice = confusion..

HOW EVER

That is one thing cleared up AND stored in the memory bank so nice one mate..


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Milky I thought you were joking, sorry!

30g of carbs per day max. TBH that will come from the normal 'no carb' stuff you eat.


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

Milky said:


> NOW
> 
> This is where confusion kicks in because l am sure l was told to try and have minimul carbs am and none in the evening by someone at the gym and this may have thrown me slightly...
> 
> Fu*k me its complicated...


it is complicated matey. I have been searching and looking people's journals for a while about this keto thing but still confused!!!


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

OK

There are various forms of keto

Standard Keto Diet (SKD)

Targeted Keto Diet (TKD)

Cycilc Keto Diet (CKD)

Most people you see on here do CKD

This means that you have less than 30g carbs per day for 7-10 days, then you have a 24-48 hour carb refeed to replenish your glycogen stores (ie give you energy to train)

With TKD, you have carbs around your workouts.

Choice is yours

SKD is no carbs at all and not suitable for us nutters lifting weights


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

mph said:


> Milky I thought you were joking, sorry!
> 
> 30g of carbs per day max. TBH that will come from the normal 'no carb' stuff you eat.


okay, let us get it right! so no carbs(i.e.no bread, no rice, etc etc) whatsoever? right? and if so, how and where the body gets its energy?


----------



## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

sakso said:


> okay, let us get it right! so no carbs(i.e.no bread, no rice, etc etc) whatsoever? right? and if so, how and where the body gets its energy?


with all due respect mate have you researched keto at all?


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

sakso said:


> okay, let us get it right! so no carbs(i.e.no bread, no rice, etc etc) whatsoever? right? and if so, how and where the body gets its energy?


My journal should give you an idea of food and the ratio's of fat v protein v carbs

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/140779-my-keto-diet.html

The ideal is to put your body into a state of ketosis which long story short means your body burns fat for energy rather than taking the energy from carbs, or your muscles if you are not eating carbs.

I will dig out a decent thread on it for you in a sec..


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

mph said:


> I will dig out a decent thread on it for you in a sec..


Ok this is what I was looking for:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=36497

IMO it's a decent high level description of CKD. While I haven't listened to all in the thread I did find it useful.

The bit i didn't really pay attention to was the split of fat v protein, instead deciding to go with 60% - 70% calories from fat, rest from protein approach which is what ausbuilt has advised, who frankly seems to be the don of all things keto!

Hope this helps and that I haven't just hijacked a thread


----------



## sakso (Mar 14, 2011)

milner575 said:


> with all due respect mate have you researched keto at all?


I have mate, I have even PMed a couple of guys on this forum for advice.


----------



## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

sakso said:


> I have mate, I have even PMed a couple of guys on this forum for advice.


surely you should know where energy comes from then


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

milner575 said:


> with all due respect mate have you researched keto at all?


I will be honest mate and say no, the reason being l get very confused and bogged down in the science of it and my head explodes..

I wil post my meals on here and happily get laughed at as long as the advice comes with it...

I am a simple man, l need things in black and white....


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Milky said:


> I am a simple man, l need things in black and white....


My wife just read this and said "oh he's like you" cheeky...


----------



## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Milky said:


> I will be honest mate and say no, the reason being l get very confused and bogged down in the science of it and my head explodes..
> 
> I wil post my meals on here and happily get laughed at as long as the advice comes with it...
> 
> I am a simple man, l need things in black and white....


im not going to lie im no expert on keto. not by a long shot. that being said i fail to see how hard it can be :tongue:

65-70% of your calories from fats and the rest from protein i think is somewhere near right. keeping the same grams of fat and protein in each meal is a good way to do it IMO

for example a meal with 50 grams of protein and 50 grams of fat would be 200 cals from protein but 450 cals from fats.

as for where the energy comes from the idea is that the body turns to fat for energy instead of carbs. the liver converts fat into ketones and that is used for energy instead (i think. someone will flame me if im wrong lol)


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

milner575 said:


> im not going to lie im no expert on keto. not by a long shot. that being said i fail to see how hard it can be :tongue:
> 
> 65-70% of your calories from fats and the rest from protein i think is somewhere near right. keeping the same grams of fat and protein in each meal is a good way to do it IMO
> 
> ...


But you see this is my problem...

I need someone to spell it out,

What l can eat, when etc.... meal suggestions etc..


----------



## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Milky said:


> But you see this is my problem...
> 
> I need someone to spell it out,
> 
> What l can eat, when etc.... meal suggestions etc..


damn you milky you dont want much do ya lol.


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

milner575 said:


> damn you milky you dont want much do ya lol.


I did say it right from the off mate....

I know l am asking a lot and l hope l dont come across as lazy, l have tried to study things and my god my head hurts with all the conflicting advice you get..

Hope that makes sense..


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

engllishboy said:


> Some people claim to be knocked out of ketosis due to them, but I'd bet the vast majority aren't. Ive stayed in ketosis whilst drinking pepsi max all day.





Milky said:


> By adding an oil to a shake is EVOO adequate ?
> 
> I am sorry for being such a thico on this, l am just keen to get it as close to right as l can...
> 
> Cheers for all the help so far as well people, really am trying to soak it all up.





Milky said:


> I did say it right from the off mate....
> 
> I know l am asking a lot and l hope l dont come across as lazy, l have tried to study things and my god my head hurts with all the conflicting advice you get..
> 
> Hope that makes sense..


search for keto threads on here- look for posts by S3_abv he's posted his diet- very good.


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

To be honest, the keto (or any other diet) can be complicated.

It's okay when people put up links to books, etc, but not everyone has the time or inclination to read the book.

As Gemilky says, his head explodes.

Gonna try and bullet point the diet in laymans terms with as little technical bollox as possible

1 - Foods are made up of macros known as Proteins, Fats and Carbohydrates.

2 - Our body uses carbs as the main energy source. (Carbs get converted into glucose and are then stored as glycogen)

3 - When we remove carbs from the diet, the body uses up the glycogen and then looks for another source of energy.

4 - There are only 2 other options....proteins and fats

5 - We don't want the body to use protein for energy (gluconeogenesis) as this will eventually lead to muscle loss

6 - We do want the body to use fats for energy (ketosis)

7 - Now, because we throw heavy shiit around, we need to replace the energy stores periodically (carb up), otherwise after about 3 weeks we would pass the fcuk out.

So the diet will look like this

Days 1-7

Fats 65%, Proteins 30%, Carbs 5%

Eat 6 meals per day

Each meal should have equal amounts of F&P in weight.

eg 30g F, 30g P, 5g C

Days 8-9

Carb Up

Day 8 eat high GI carbs, fruits, dextrose, all that type of shiit

Day 9 eat low GI carbs, wholewheat, wholemeal stuff

Then repeat


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Quick question, is there a need to have 6 meal with an exact spread of protein and fats?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

mph said:


> Quick question, is there a need to have 6 meal with an exact spread of protein and fats?


not at all- i often do 2-3meals a day when busy, keeps things easy. the good thing about keto is you dont get a "low blood sugar" loss of energy if you miss a meal, 'coz you alway feel like that LOL

BUT- each meal (big or small) MUST be in the right ratio of fat/protein


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

aus, does my post above make sense


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Ha ha yes true.

What about the equal amounts of protein v fats in each meal. I assume the approach to this is to avoid jumping in and out of ketosis throughout the day?

For example (and an extereme one but trying to highlight it) if I had a chicken breast for one meal which wouldn't be high in fat and then 100g of brazil nuts which was. Although my day of food would equal 65% calories from fat I assume I would have left ketosis after the chicken breast?

Hope that makes sense!!


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey milky

Bored at work, so knocked up an example day for you to have a look at


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Breakfast Meal

50g smoked salmon

3 medium eggs scrambled

10ml sunflower oil

481Kcals, 37g Fat, 0g Carb, 37g Protein


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

I've just started researching keto diets and this thread is great. Some good info by Tassoti & Ausbuilt.

I have a question, when "carbing up" is there a minimum amount of carbs you need to eat per day?

Sorry for the hijack Milky.


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

16 x lbw in kg (grams)


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

mph said:


> Ha ha yes true.
> 
> What about the equal amounts of protein v fats in each meal. I assume the approach to this is to avoid jumping in and out of ketosis throughout the day?
> 
> ...


not guaranteed, but quite likely, the problem then is you don't "jump in and out" of keto. If you use 3iu of 'slin (without carbs) every 4 hours, you'll be in keto in 2-3 shots- cannot be done quicker than this- if you do it with metformin at 1500mg/day, can take 36-48hours.. natural- can take 2-3days...


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm doing it natural and don't think I'm in ketosis yet. This is start of day 3.


----------



## Taylor25 (May 24, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> Hey milky
> 
> Bored at work, so knocked up an example day for you to have a look at
> 
> View attachment 59414


Useful that Tass i might use some of the idea for my own.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

mph said:


> I'm doing it natural and don't think I'm in ketosis yet. This is start of day 3.


i would recommend you get some metformin from unitedpharmacies.co.uk (and of the 500mg tabs) and take 3 tabs/day for 2days to get into keto quicker.. doing it natural is a tough 3 days.. don't carb-up every week, becuase if you do, you're only in keto 3days/week at the most.. go for a 7-10 day carb up cycle..


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> i would recommend you get some metformin from unitedpharmacies.co.uk (and of the 500mg tabs) and take 3 tabs/day for 2days to get into keto quicker.. doing it natural is a tough 3 days.. don't carb-up every week, becuase if you do, you're only in keto 3days/week at the most.. go for a 7-10 day carb up cycle..


Ok thanks I'll order some when I finish work today. Do you think there is a need for a BG monitor or if I am keeping strict on no carbs (and so far my worst if 20g in a day) I should be okay?

I guess what's freaking me out right now is that I'm consuming 65% fat minimum and not in ketosis so am I actually gaining fat rather than losing it!! Or, is my body using all the food as fuel but as I'm not in ketosis it is also taking some fuel from muscle.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

mph said:


> Ok thanks I'll order some when I finish work today. Do you think there is a need for a BG monitor or if I am keeping strict on no carbs (and so far my worst if 20g in a day) I should be okay?
> 
> I guess what's freaking me out right now is that I'm consuming 65% fat minimum and not in ketosis so am I actually gaining fat rather than losing it!! Or, is my body using all the food as fuel but as I'm not in ketosis it is also taking some fuel from muscle.


if your overall calorie intake is lower than maintenance then even 65% fats won't put fat on..

If your strict on carb (<30g) and 65% fats, you should be in keto by the end of day3/start day4- but it won't show on ketostix... as you wont have any EXCESS ketones.

I always recommend using a BG monitor 30mins after your meal, just to make sure you're under 5.6, until you know how each meal effects you etc.

yes you are right though, in ketosis no muscle is used for energy- but it absolutely is until you're in keto.. (true of ANY other diet mind you... and they never get the muscle sparing mode of ketosis)


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Thanks aus, appreciate the direction you've given.


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Free BG monitor


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Well l dont know of this is relevant but l am totally drained and grumpy as hell,


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

you might get headaches as well for a couple of days.....then you will get bad breath..ha ha..oh the joys


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> you might get headaches as well for a couple of days.....then you will get *bad breath*..ha ha..oh the joys


Man this is one of my biggest paranoya's !


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Halitosis is better than no breath at all


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Once you are in ketosis, you 'should' find that your energy returns.

I never got that TBH and just felt like you do now. That's why I do TKD instead


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

I also found that I got anxiety attacks...

B-complex sorted that

Actually, following vits were used

Multivit

Vit C

Vit D

Vit B complex

Evening Primrose Oil

Psyllium husks


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Tassotti said:


> Free BG monitor


Thanks, mine's on order!


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Milky

I've put together a meal plan for me, no idea if it'll help you out. I don't think I'm in ketosis yet so you may or may not want to use it


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

not sure sardines and mayo go together.....ugh...lol


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

mph said:


> Milky
> 
> I've put together a meal plan for me, no idea if it'll help you out. I don't think I'm in ketosis yet so you may or may not want to use it


Top man l owe you some reps....

got the mrs printing these off, will have to adapt one or two things but all good ...


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> Once you are in ketosis, you 'should' find that your energy returns.
> 
> I never got that TBH and just felt like you do now. That's why I do TKD instead


you get used to feeling a little flat, and after a while you won't feel grumpy... its actually covered in that book i posted the link to...

essentially you're going through "sugar withdrawal" symptoms, a bit like an addict... not joking..


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> you get used to feeling a little flat, and after a while you won't feel grumpy... its actually covered in that book i posted the link to...
> 
> essentially you're going through "sugar withdrawal" symptoms, a bit like an addict... not joking..


I have had this in the past, felt like l had been hit over the head with a hammer !!

Also mate can you suggest anything to stop the "shakes" ?

I mean l nearly pass out with them..


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Tassotti said:


> not sure sardines and mayo go together.....ugh...lol


Ha ha, had it last night, was a winning combo!


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

you're a fcuking animal....ha ha ha


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

mph said:


> Ha ha, had it last night, was a winning combo!


NO MATE

PIE AND CHIPS is a winning combo...

That is puke on a plate...


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Here's another breakfast...I have this most days

Ham and cheese omelette

50g ham, 25g cheese, 3 medium eggs cooked in 10g (ml) sunflower oil

541 Kcals, 41g F, 1g Carb, 42g Protein


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> Here's another breakfast...I have this most days
> 
> Ham and cheese omelette
> 
> ...


Thats the morning sorted matey nice one...


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Milky said:


> I have had this in the past, felt like l had been hit over the head with a hammer !!
> 
> Also mate can you suggest anything to stop the "shakes" ?
> 
> I mean l nearly pass out with them..


OK as i've suggested before, the worst part of a Keto diet is the three days from when you start until you get into keto. I recommend you order some metformin (500mg tabs) from unitedpharmacies.co.uk (just get the cheapest 500mg tabs). This gets you into keto quicker, so the phase with the shakes doesnt last. I do it in 8hours with 'slin, and dont get the shakes etc because i get straight into keto...

However, don't forget the shakes are a reaction to low energy. ECA is VERY effective here.

Even keto benefits from this:

2days on Clen +T3

2day on ECA

repeat

you'll have energy, train better, and lose more fat...

from a food perspective, if you're feelin "low" a few spoonfulls of MCT is a life saver... (or some hard cheese in a pinch).

The MCT (medium chain triglycerides) really are nearly tasteless, and i wash it down with some diet coke.


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> OK as i've suggested before, the worst part of a Keto diet is the three days from when you start until you get into keto. I recommend you order some metformin (500mg tabs) from unitedpharmacies.co.uk (just get the cheapest 500mg tabs). This gets you into keto quicker, so the phase with the shakes doesnt last. I do it in 8hours with 'slin, and dont get the shakes etc because i get straight into keto...
> 
> However, don't forget the shakes are a reaction to low energy. ECA is VERY effective here.
> 
> ...


I have been advised against T3 mate with my thyroid issue..


----------



## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Tassotti said:


> Yes water, and plenty of it..Aim to get at least 3 ltrs into you per day.
> 
> It's the asparthme in diet drinks that can kick some people out of keto, so, unless you have a bg monitor, then yes best to avoid.
> 
> Keto makes me pis5 a lot !!!!! haha


Iv been waiting to ask this for days, is that you in your pic ??? if so you have the longest back iv ever seen, iv never seen a back like yours in my life, how did you get it that shape, also do you have an ass cause it doesnt look like it?


----------



## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Ts23 said:


> Iv been waiting to ask this for days, is that you in your pic ??? if so you have the longest back iv ever seen, iv never seen a back like yours in my life, how did you get it that shape, also do you have an ass cause it doesnt look like it?


sorry milky, not hijaking thread lol


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Milky said:


> I have been advised against T3 mate with my thyroid issue..


no probs, you can still alternate clen and ECA.


----------



## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Ts23 said:


> Iv been waiting to ask this for days, is that you in your pic ??? if so you have the longest back iv ever seen, iv never seen a back like yours in my life, how did you get it that shape, also do you have an ass cause it doesnt look like it?


Ha ha WTF?

No it's not me..I thought I'd put up a picture of some random fat bloke in his living room....lol

Yes..it is me...I do have an ass....I have short arms and short legs, and, apparently, a long back..hahaha

Does it look long in this one?


----------



## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> the worst part of a Keto diet is the three days from when you start until you get into keto.


See now I don't feel that different to be honest!


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

mph said:


> See now I don't feel that different to be honest!


based on your own thread- i think if you fix your ratios for every meal, you'll get into keto in the next day or so. Don't think you got there yet owing to your macros not being right for all meals (doesn't work on a "whole day" basis)


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

nice dinner

135g goat's penis, 100g brussel sprouts

415 cals, 28g Fat, 5g carbs, 27g Protein


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> nice dinner
> 
> 135g goat's penis, 100g brussel sprouts
> 
> 415 cals, 28g Fat, 5g carbs, 27g Protein


'tis a measly meal, i go spanish style bulls balls myself, at least double the protein (each!!) and some nice spanish chilli infused EVOO to keep it keto..


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## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Jesus and I get grief for sardines and mayo :laugh:

You're right about the macros aus, think I've got it setup now so each meal falls in the right ratio and not just the 'whole day'.

Def sweeting more (but then again it is stupidly hot at the moment!)


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

I am struggling with this measuring thing here chaps but l am cracking on, gonna try and slashon a stick later.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Milky said:


> I am struggling with this measuring thing here chaps but l am cracking on, gonna try and slashon a stick later.


slashing on a stick is only worth doing late in the evening or first slash in the morning- otherwise you may dilute the results, or not have an excess ketones to measure...

the first measurement to take, always, is your blood glucose levels (someone posted a link to a free blood glucose meter). If your meter reads 5.6 (based on a pin pr**k of your blood) you could be in either gluconeogenesis or ketogenesis- if your carbs remain under 30g/day and each meal is 65%-70% fat, you're in ketosis- after 48hours at the earliest, usually in the 3rd day..


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> slashing on a stick is only worth doing late in the evening or first slash in the morning- otherwise you may dilute the results, or not have an excess ketones to measure...
> 
> the first measurement to take, always, is your blood glucose levels (someone posted a link to a free blood glucose meter). If your meter reads 5.6 (based on a pin pr**k of your blood) you could be in either gluconeogenesis or ketogenesis- if your carbs remain under 30g/day and each meal is 65%-70% fat, you're in ketosis- after 48hours at the earliest, usually in the 3rd day..


Will get on the case now...

Would it be quicker / easier to buy one ?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

It would be quicker...delivery is slow..think they're only a tenner on fee-bay


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> slashing on a stick is only worth doing late in the evening or first slash in the morning- otherwise you may dilute the results, or not have an excess ketones to measure...
> 
> the first measurement to take, always, is your blood glucose levels (someone posted a link to a free blood glucose meter). If your meter reads 5.6 (based on a pin pr**k of your blood) you could be in either gluconeogenesis or ketogenesis- if your carbs remain under 30g/day and each meal is 65%-70% fat, you're in ketosis- after 48hours at the earliest, usually in the 3rd day..


Most people think that because they are below 5.6, they are in ketosis.

However, this is not necessarily the case.

Most 'normal' (not diabetic) people are in the range of 4 - 8 anyway.

However, you cannot be in ketosis if you are over 5.6 mmol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> Most people think that because they are below 5.6, they are in ketosis.
> 
> However, this is not necessarily the case. yep, i thought i said that..
> 
> ...


 5.6 is the "fasted" BG level according to many pathology labs (though some say 5.8) at any rate, fasted means you've ingested no carbs rather than no food..


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Tassotti said:


> Most people think that because they are below 5.6, they are in ketosis.
> 
> However, this is not necessarily the case.
> 
> ...


got me new diet plan ni my journal, after tassoitti and Ausbuilts advice, ive got the fat and pro very similar so you find it in me Journal Milky if you want a nosey......i fecking better be in ketosis, i musta pricked my fingers several times each to get blood out


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Quick and easy keto meal

Tuna salad

138g tuna, 50g full fat mayo, 50g romaine lettuce, 30g cucumber

533 Kcals, 41g Fat, 2g Carbs, 39g Protein


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

My god l am craving toast !


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## mph (Jul 4, 2009)

Milky said:


> My god l am craving toast !


Milky my craving is fruit. i used to have at least 5 a day and now I've had none! How are you feeling generally, are you using a BG monitor?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

I just tried that peanut butter recipe I linked to earlier...

It was fcuking luuuush


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## Taylor25 (May 24, 2010)

Im might be being thick here but how do i view someones journal


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

click on their username

takes you to their profile

click on find all started threads

will be in there

Or

go to journal section and look for it

Or

ask the mofo for a link


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## Taylor25 (May 24, 2010)

Tassotti said:


> click on their username
> 
> takes you to their profile
> 
> ...


Cheers mate


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

How's this going Milky?

Have you put together any good keto meals?


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> How's this going Milky?
> 
> Have you put together any good keto meals?


Mate l am CRAP !!

I am copying and adjusting the ones posted on here... l wish l could be more exotic with my eating...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

hahaha

I do like your honesty.

I am going keto again tomorrow, so you could look at my journal and get some ideas if you want


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> hahaha
> 
> I do like your honesty.
> 
> I am going keto again tomorrow, so you could look at my journal and get some ideas if you want


I will do mate, l need all the help l can get...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Here's tomorrow's food plan

Drinks will be coke zero, green tea, black coffee, and water

Fats 68%, Carbs 2%, Protein 30%

View attachment 59526


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Me and the wife are finding we are no where near as bloated as we used to be....

Is this normal ?

I am over the moon with it BTW...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

carbs store 4 times the amount of water than Ps and Fs


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

more ideas


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Just about to have scrambled eggs and bacon....

Need to add some fat to it but dont like cheese...


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

look at breakfast in my post above...


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Tassotti said:


> look at breakfast in my post above...


Sorry mate for being a dick but how do l add good oil to it ?

EVOO ok and how do l measure it ?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Fry the eggs and bacon in it, innit

Good is just the make

you can buy measuring spoons, or you can put it in a spoon and weigh it

1ml is approx 1g

a teaspoon is about 5ml


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

Another Day for ideas


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)




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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

meals are getting really detailled, do you do any shopping beside sainsburys, i go to tescos but theres a sainsburys across road might give that a try


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

The foods are gonna be really similar in macros

If you like the look of any meals, get the ingredients from Tesco, check the macros and adjust meal as necessary...it's easy really..just adjust the amount of fat you are cooking with to balance the meal out


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Tassotti said:


> The foods are gonna be really similar in macros
> 
> If you like the look of any meals, get the ingredients from Tesco, check the macros and adjust meal as necessary...it's easy really..just adjust the amount of fat you are cooking with to balance the meal out


been doing that, noticed the beef mince in tesco has protein higher than fat (i normally make this up with mayo etc) and the beef mince in asda is equal, so gotta be careful


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

the mince from sainsburys has 1.5g of carbs..Fcuk knows how they call it 100% beef, which they do...?


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

last one


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## gooner fc (Feb 7, 2009)

Milky said:


> As in my journal l am going away in 9 weeks.
> 
> I need help to do a cut and l am going to try the keto route.
> 
> ...


Hi mate just saw your thread thought i'd share my experience, last year i had done dave palumbo keto diet and it was great. Felt like i had loads of energy in the begin but towards the end of the diet strength went down. Advisable for cutting as it spares your muscle the most when dietting, the diet i followed was

For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1

5 whole eggs (make sure to buy *****-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good *****-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the *****-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2

SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3

"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4

SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5

"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6

SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (*****-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

Theres one for a 250lb man as well just do an internet search and good luck.


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## xxxjessiexxx (Aug 2, 2011)

i have loved reading this thread im trying to loose weigh and have been doing keto for two days this is my day three im very new to this and finding it hard to understand so sticking to simple foods at the mo

i am only having about 11oo calories at the mo and trying to keep carbs below 30g

my daily meals have been

B 2 eggs boiled

green apple

S bacon rashes

i had a banana the first day but is loosing them now too hight in carbs !

l tuna or chicken salad with lemon juice

s penut butter and celery

need more ideas

d chicken veg corgettes ( i make them like a pasta )

mushrooms

greens

any meal ideas and snack ideas are welcome

can someone tell me if this is right

j


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## xxxjessiexxx (Aug 2, 2011)

i forgot to mention been havin laughing cow cheese and darylea cheese strings

is this ok it has no cards in them

j


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