# My FAT belly is REALLY [email protected] me off! need help :(



## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

I been training for like 5 years now, on and off, not right and sometimes right...i have a nice size, if it wasn't for my belly making my body look odd!

anyway! i thought it was about time i seek help from some experts, as I'm REALLY getting ~issed off with my belly fat!

I've had a belly ever since i was younger, it has got smaller over the last 2-3 years, but not as much as i wud like!

I'm 24 now, im around 13 stone i think, haven't checked lately! i use to be around 15-16 couple years back...

but now i really want rid of this belly and want a flat stomach for once in my life! i been doing cardio much more lately, 3 times a week, boxing bag, cross trainer and bike...

my arms and legs and everywhere get's leaner, but my DAMN belly never seems to want to shrink! i look down at in the shower and it's real depressing and makes me feel like all my effort in gym is worthless...

my main problem is nutrition i think! i have been trying to eat small meals/snacks every 2 hours, as i hear that is best way to speed up the meto and burn fat..but there is times where i can't get any food down me every 2 hours, and if i do, it's chocolate or some other crap!

for most people they can get rid of a belly like this in 6 months say, but me it's been years! and hasn't budged much! i have some body fat scales, but don't use them much as they change so many times..

it says around %22-27% fat! i don't know what to believe anymore....ALSO i'm always hungry before i go bed, so i normaly neck down a protein shake mixed with water and cod liver oil. but still feel hungry lol...

sorry this is a lonnnng post, i cud keep writing for ages! anyway hope u guy's can give me some tips....ASK any queations u need to know 

:thumb:


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## Big Scouse (Sep 30, 2008)

Hello and welcome i used to have the same trouble as you my stomach would not seem to go down for years i think the best route for you to go is some light weight training, add some extra cardio and up the rate at which you do it, and try and get your diet straight i.e stop eating junk food all this will do is slow down the fat burn, your body will burn the junk you have just put in instead of the brown fat stored in your stomach, There is no magic drugs to help you lose it so my advice is to keep going more cardio and better diet = Less fat.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i do weight training anyway, but I've cut back on it in favor of cardio, sometimes, i do arms and then some cardio or boxing, but at the moment i do monday, wednesday & saturday or maybe sunday for cardio. but i do go light when doing weights and try to have 30 second rest time.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Sometimes you focus too much on one part.

I decided years ago to get a six pack (like I had any choice in the matter) so I focused totally on my stomach.

I lost so much weight but the elusive six never appeared.

I actually came to my senses when I turned round one day and saw all the ribs running down the side of my back in the mirror!

You may not have as big a gut as you think mate.

Genetics are a **** though and you may never shed that last wee bit (without chemical aid)


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## sofresh (Sep 9, 2008)

Hey mate, with belly fat, or fat in general I think that even a diet is more important than working out...you HAVE to get that diet in order. That will help you out the most...if you miss one of your 2 hour meals, don't flip out, and don't eat extra at your next meal, you will be fine; also eat lots of lean protein, low carbs, and veggies with lots of fiber..... I want you to drink a minimum of 1 gallon of water per day!


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Dude, as said above, it's all about the diet.

If you're eating "chocolate or some other crap", it's not really a major shock that you are struggling to shift it. Sort your diet it... but even then, the fat won't go overnight (it didn't come overnight, after all). But if you sort your diet out to something sensible, and most importantly sustainable (no point in writing out a diet consisting of plain chicken and rice every 2-3 hours if it makes you gag... you won't stick to it), there's no reason why you shouldn't lose around half a percent bodyfat every week or two... meaning that after 6 months or so, you should be around the 15% mark, give or take a bit. Even after a couple of months, there should be a significant enough change that others will start commenting.


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## Geo (Apr 3, 2007)

As Big has said already Diet is Key here. If your body aint in a calorie defict mode then you wont lose weight, although a good cardio program is used in conjuction with this to help burn off the unwanted fat.

Use the search button and look for Pscarb Post on Carb cycling, seems to work for alot of guys including myself.

Cut out all the junk food you eat, you know whats bad for you so dont eat it.

Geo


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Diet is key here, no doubt about it, all the dudes are right as above^^^^^^^^^^^^

But what is the solution?

Yep diet is key.

Why the bellyfat?

Simple.

Too much insulin.

A diet that does not spike insulin, and resistance training is critical here, even some cardio would be nice as well.

Clearly it may be that you are insulin reisitant.

Fish oils, fiber, and both resistance training and cardio may be in order.

I bet money, you modify your diet some, you will achieve what you are looking for.

I would really like to see your diet.

I would like to see what you ate today, and also what you eat every day.

I am not saying I can solve your problem with belly fat, I see things that stand out to me.

Many times the most simple things are the ones that often get overlooked..............

Back to basics, and that is diet..............


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

thanks guys! well im at work now, just started, i'm having 3 weetabix with some honey drizzled on it, (not a lot lol) and a cup of coffee, or it's normally, tea...or i substitute weetabix for toast, try to keep it at brown bread..but white bread is better for toast 

I normally hungry in 2 hour, but my lunch is normally around 12, but i have advantage cuz we have a fridge in out office and can eat when ever we want, but for lunch i end up going to Greggs and get a wrap or sandwich.

i need more recipes really, when i get home from work normally stick on a birds eye chicken breast fillet with oven chips and some veg, i would love to eat proper chicken, but i always end up cooking it bland and rubbery!

im at the gym tonight after work too, but by the time i get there i feel really un energized, have to have a Kaffine Kick before i start my workouts...

i just run out of food to mess with, and end up eating same crap...think i need to go for a real good shop!

@Geo

i really hate the thought if calorie counting! i just don't see how it can be down with all food, for example im indian, so my mum makes indian food, or my old man makes a mean ruby Murry on Fridays, so i don't know hwo much is in what....so i try go for small meals every 2 hours, i hear that REALLY helps loose weight

i don't eat enough in the whole day i don't think, i prob make 1800 or 200 calories just about on some days.


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

Ill be blunt mate, your eating crap

loads of refined carbs, no protein , no fresh fruit or fibrous veg - no wonder your not shifting it

the diet is 90% of your problem I would say

how much do you weigh?

you need to then structure (and stick to the diet)

eating small and often (2-3 hrs) to speed metabolism, decrease bloating and get a regular amount of nutrients

plus you need to drink 3-4 litres of water a day

without knowing your weight its hard to be exact

but you need 200g of protein (split over 5-6 meals)

its very easy to construct a diet but its down to YOU to do the work and put the effort in


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i'm around 13st, but i'l do a proper weigh tonight.... im 5ft"7

my legs are lean, and my arms are leaning out nicely..it's just the belly which is stuborn, i know that's the last place fat goes from on blokes and for woman it's hips, but how much is left on the rest of me lol....

the protein i get at the mo, is mostly from whey protein, i know it's suppose to be a "supplement" but i really on that to get protein...

i'm just looking at the chicken recipe thread now to get some idea's


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

could you list your diet then as you mentioned it before bbut didnt seem to be complete

as an idea try something like

breaky

oats and whey

next meal

chicken and rice with veg

next meal

chicken and veg with spoon olive oil

next meal

chicken and rice with veg

PWO

Whey with Carbs and/or fats

evening

cottage cheese and veg (like peppers chooped up/celery/cucumber)

what sort of bodyfat are you?

the above is purely a template but bear in mind that Chicken means fresh chicken not packet stuff - you can use lean beef/turkey/lamb etc or fish

there are loads of ideas on the diet section so browwse through and enjoy


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

im %22-%27 the bodyfat scale i have, it varies, i know it depends on how much water you retain and alot of other factors.

see with that diet u wrote there, that looks really bland and boring to me, plain chicken breast i can't do! i need a marinade or something, i sis start buying the sainsbury chicken breast, like spicy chicken and bbq flavour, all low in fat, just to get a taste...

the rice, white rice is out o presume lol. i shud get hold of some brown rice really. i have a jacket potato for lunch sometimes to from the local cafe, but i find it bring me to a low energy later on in the day,


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

Theres one simple rule to losing bodyfat, no miracle diet or training/cardio comes close to and thats calorie control. In simple terms, eating less calories than your body needs.

You first need to find your maintainance calories level that you need to maintain your current bodyweight. This can be gauged in about 2-3 weeks and will vary from person to person, ie: how active you are and how physical your job is. Everyone is different.

From here reduce your daily intake by 15% to start with and see how you go. So for example, if you need 3000 cals a day to maintain your weight. Deduct 15%, that will then leave you with approx 2,500 cals a day (a reduction of about 3,500 a week) and hopefully one to two pounds a weeks fat loss (*note that I didn't say WEIGHT loss)

As Geo sez. look up carb cycling or carb rotation diets, but remember you HAVE to be in a calorie deficit for the diet to work.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i'm pretty sure im always in calorie deflect, I'm an I.T techy, who sits at desk all day, well apart from going to sort probls out,so only really physical thing is my gym 3 times a week,

i think i need 2400 to maintain, so i need to shoot for around 2000 calories a day, right? but what about the days i train and that uses say 300-400 doing cardio? plus counting calories in food? it can't be done with all foods, and i'd spend so much time doing that than eating 

what;s the best thing to measure fat loss? cuz them BF scales i have vary so much, so if i feel i been doing good and jump on them seeing that BF% went up, it puts me down...


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

lookgoodnaked said:


> i think i need 2400 to maintain, so i need to shoot for around 2000 calories a day, right? but what about the days i train and that uses say 300-400
> 
> As i've said EVERYONE is different you may have a slow metabolism
> 
> ...


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

very true! i put 100% in at gym but when it comes to nutrition, maybe 50% ! which is not enough!

well im down to a 34 waist jeans, so that was a sign something is going on down there, use to be 36..

my problem is, if i do healthy eating and everything proper and don't see any visible results i think it's not working..and i know that's the biggest mistake as results take longer than over night or a week to show!

well im off to gym in about hour! then get home and have a protein shake and some quick digesting carbs? 

I hear you lot saying cottage cheese is good before bedtime? is that cuz it's whey and slow digesting?


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## FATBOY (Mar 4, 2008)

It depends on how bad you want to get in shape m8 most good food is pretty bland but if you want it bad enough you will stick with it  you can eat clean all week then allow your self a cheat day and still lose weight

once you get into it it becomes second nature


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It is well understood that if you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight.

But that is about all you can make out of that statement.

If your entire calorie count came from refinied carbohydrates, you would be fatter and have more bellyfat, than if you ate the same amount of calories of protein and fats.

You see, once insulin spikes, fat loss stops dead. So, this is a bit more than the blanket statement of calorie in calorie out.

Eating smart will work better than not eating smart, same calories considered.

Meat for example, lets say you ate 500 calories of meat and another time you ate 500 calories of processed carbohydrates.

The 500 calories of meat would not supply the body with as much calories as the processed carbs.

Meat has a thermic effect, plus it supports lean tissue, so some of the calories are lost with the meat compared to carbs, and some of the tissue is supported, unlike carbohydrates.

Fiber?

35 grams of fiber burns an additional 250 calories.

Spiking blood sugars with bread and other highly processed foods like wheetabix, will increase insulins responce, stop fat burning, increase storage of fat, and also drive down blood sugars triggering the biggest glucose hog in the body (the brain), to call for more food.

Calorie in vs. calorie out sounds good, but in the real world it does little for those that need additional help.

Dudes metabolism maybe due to not eating enough food, or certainly the wrong ones.

Eat a diet lower in the GI, add good fats like fish oils, lower your carbohydrates, and up your protein.

Have a protein, carb and fat with each meal, dont eat more than 500 cals at a sitting, dont go longer than 5 hours without eating, never skip breakfast, eat frequently, take some kelp tablets.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2008)

I am sure you drink alcohol, do not drink a drop again until you reach your goals and then if you want reintroduce it slowly.

Weight train do your cardio afterwards.

Diet is simple clean protein ie eggs, chicken, lean steak, carbs come from green veg and fruit like apples fats come from olive oil in which you cook your food and some fish oil caps each day.


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## muscle01 (Nov 6, 2008)

Try using calipers mate-but make sure the individual who is using them, knows what he is doing.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

FATBOY said:


> It depends on how bad you want to get in shape m8 most good food is pretty bland but if you want it bad enough you will stick with it  you can eat clean all week then allow your self a cheat day and still lose weight
> 
> once you get into it it becomes second nature


i do want to badly, it's getting to a point where iv'e always been trying to lose it! it would be a HUGE confident boost for me! cuz i think everyone is aware of it, even at the gym i hate taking my top off!

thing is, i don't want it to be a diet, it should be something i can get use to and eat all the time, and if it's bland, im more likely to go off it, so if i can make it taste as nice as possible, i'l look forward to eating it much more



hackskii said:


> It is well understood that if you take in less calories than you burn you will lose weight.
> 
> But that is about all you can make out of that statement.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that actual made sense! i need to read more into GI, always thought it was like a muppet way of eating, for people who just like to buy them low GI foods....

:thumb: so only time for high Gi foods is pre-workout and post-workout right?

i'm going to substitute Weetabix for Alpen which is 55, weetabix was 75! or brand flakes, which i don't mind 



Con said:


> I am sure you drink alcohol, do not drink a drop again until you reach your goals and then if you want reintroduce it slowly.
> 
> Weight train do your cardio afterwards.
> 
> Diet is simple clean protein ie eggs, chicken, lean steak, carbs come from green veg and fruit like apples fats come from olive oil in which you cook your food and some fish oil caps each day.


i only drink once a month when i go clubbing or to a party, which doesn't happen a lot, i normally drink orange squash or plain ice cold water



muscle01 said:


> Try using calipers mate-but make sure the individual who is using them, knows what he is doing.


 i have some of them! just gotta find where i put em, i always use to forgot were i measured from and what point!


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Calorie in vs. calorie out sounds good, but in the real world it does little for those that need additional help.


So Hacks, I assume your referring to my post and your saying than that you dont need to be in a calorie deficit when rotating/cutting carbs and you can eat as much protein and fat as you want?????? I Dont agree with that.

*Any* diet a body builder follows should be based around some basic calorie counting whether it be for aimimg for 6,000 cals for building muscle or 2,000 cals for cutting and that includes carb cycling/rotation which is what I advised.

If this guys a bodybuilder thats seroius and wants to lose "fat" (note I didnt say weight) and, I assume he is, otherwise he wouldnt be here asking the question, he should at least attempt to get to grips with the nutritional values of the food he's eating............


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i was into bodybuilding, but now i just want to "look good naked" not intense body building as in taking a lot of diff stuff and so many supplements and stage stuff.. whey protein and maybe glutamine or creatine, is most iv'e had, but lean with some muscle is good for me  but main goal Lose fat! then maybe after that start adding muscle, but being cfarfeulf not to get belly back when doing it!

right i got lunch now, but nothing with me! so what wud be best thing to buy? is brown bread sandwich low Gi i presume ? with chicken filling?


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## FATBOY (Mar 4, 2008)

m8 you have to get organised ,if your serious about losing weight prep your meals the night before .

im at work but i have three tupaware containers in my bag with chiken rice and veg i them ,

keep your diet clean and just do loads of cardio quite simple realy


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

seems you want the instant result without being willing to do much about it... the supplements and magic pills aren the answer

preparing your food is

so write a list of the good things and go to the supermarket and buy them along with a few plastic tupperware boxes and stick at it


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

yup! and i know instant results don't happen!! iv'e started a shopping list, so far Bio-yogurt and brown rice...got some whole grain bread with some peanut butter for some fats right? gonna bring in my alpen 2momrw instead of wetta bix for breaky...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

xzx said:


> So Hacks, I assume your referring to my post and your saying than that you dont need to be in a calorie deficit when rotating/cutting carbs and you can eat as much protein and fat as you want?????? I Dont agree with that.
> 
> *Any* diet a body builder follows should be based around some basic calorie counting whether it be for aimimg for 6,000 cals for building muscle or 2,000 cals for cutting and that includes carb cycling/rotation which is what I advised.
> 
> If this guys a bodybuilder thats seroius and wants to lose "fat" (note I didnt say weight) and, I assume he is, otherwise he wouldnt be here asking the question, he should at least attempt to get to grips with the nutritional values of the food he's eating............


I should have been more specific, I never mentioned that not reducing the calories is a good idea.

For the sake of arguement lets look at this logically.

Yes, there needs to be a calorie deficit to lose weight, it does not matter where it comes from, it could be from pushing away from the table, or it could be from exercise burning the additional calories.

It takes 3500 calorie defecit to lose one pound of weight.

That is 500 calories a day defecit.

Adding in 35 grams of fiber, a day would burn a additional 1750 calories a week, or a half pound weight loss, and this is taking away zero calories, but for the body to try to metabolise the fiber.

Remember we have not lowered anything for a half pound loss.

1 gallon of ice water a day would burn an additional 150 calories due to the energy it takes the body to heat up the water. At the end of the week the net loss would be 1050, between the two (fiber and ice water), that would be 2775 additional calories burned, or approx 3/4 of a pound doing absolutly nothing.

My point was not really that you can eat and lose, but to some extent you can, not all calories are created equal.

I never said, nor suggested you can eat all the meat and fat you want and lose weight, but keto diets work very well.

All forms of bodybuilding diet are based on some form of carbohydrate restrictions.

What my point was is this, if you lower the glycemic index of your carbs, you will help insulin sensitivity, this is important for weight loss and insulin control.

Remember, if you are eating all carbs and are in a defecit you wont see the fat loss like you would if you have a ballanced diet, and if that isnt bad enough, less fat would be lost, and more muscle.

The whole idea behind dieting is to lose fat, and spare muscle.

If the diet is crap, and you mearly lower the calories in a defecit, less fat loss will happen and more muscle loss.

You can lose about 2 pounds of fat a week, but if you could gain just half a pound of muscle a week that would be awesome.

Muscle loss is not an option here.

Yes, you are right, but the method in all rights has a flaw.

I was not suggesting you are wrong, but the simple approach is ok for the guy that does not care about muscle and only wants to lose weight.

Just thinking calories is fine, providing the macro's are being paid attention to.

Oh, and keto diets work very well, they are very simple, less than 35 grams of carbs a day, all the fats and protein you want.

They work well with zero calorie counting and some lose a pound a day.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Oh, and keto diets work very well, they are very simple, less than 35 grams of carbs a day, all the fats and protein you want.
> 
> They work well with zero calorie counting and some lose a pound a day.


I respect your knowledge Hackski, but in simple terms, and, insofar as I am aware of for that matter, there is NO diet that can override the laws of calorie balance long term.

On a diet however with very low carbs, desire for food will diminish greatly as fat is more satiating than carbohydrates. (This is probably a good thing if one is fighting hunger or hypoglycemia) Therefore is this probably not the reason why people don't need to count calories????<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o> </o>

Keto diets can work very well for many bodybuilders, and unquestionably for obese people with carb metabolism disorders, however, and many will testify to this, on resuming normal eating after a lond period of carb deprivation, weight increase will be virtually unavoidable and in fact, can be enormous if carbs are not introduced back into the diet gradually. <o></o>

<o> </o>

The guy asked for help with his diet on a bodybuilding forum, where nutrition is a greatly debated subject and muscle loss is looked upon with terror. I simply informed there is more to it than just "weight" loss and he should look up carb rotation/cycling diets as I felt this was his best option, but nevertheless told him it was hard work and he would need a better understanding of food, (that is if he wanted to keep his newly acquired muscle whilst dieting)<o></o>

<o> </o>

At least we agree that calories were not created equal as well because if they were we would all be eating pizza and cakes and slurping beer!!!<o></o>

<o> </o>

Good debate dude!!<o></o>


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Thanks for the kind words, I apprecitate that. I was not disagreeing with you, thus it isnt really a debate, other than sharing of knowledge and expanding on those thoughts.

When a guys suggests that his bellyfat is the last thing to go, then this sends a loud signal for one of two things.

Excess estrogen, I ruled that out due to his age.

And excess insulin.

Now this one hear is what I feel he is having his problem with.

Beings that he uses high glycemic foods as his staple, his good fats are down, his protein is down, it becomes clearer to me that this guy is suffering from the effects of too many high glycemic index carbs and thus too much insulin.

Now, as I was suggesting before that in the presense of insulin fat loss stops dead.

Sure it is needed for glycogen repleneshment, but spiking insulin over time and excess insulin will cause insulin resistance.

If his belly is caused from this, then he needs to modify his diet to lower overall insulin, stop the spiking of blood sugars, and push himself twards insulin sensitivity.

This will lower overall inflammation, help improve how his meals are stored and where.

Not to mention if he is a candidate for being insulin resistant then his chances of type II diabetes is increased, and so would be the incedance of vascular disease.

I think the original poster suggested he was disturbed at his belly fat and the rest of his body is not as fat as his belly.

If this is the case, then something as simple as choosing lower glycemic carbs, increased fiber, and increase in good fats will have a great reward on his belly fat condition.

At this point, a restriction of overall calories will give him the best bang for their buck.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Thanks for the kind words, I apprecitate that. I was not disagreeing with you, thus it isnt really a debate, other than sharing of knowledge and expanding on those thoughts.
> 
> .


Sorry dude, just its sometimes good to talk about something at length and in detail, especially as part of a formal exchange of opinion or sharing of knowledge as you put it.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Bread is a killer for losing weight, as in no good.

I would avoid all bread if looking to lose weight.


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## MarkM (Sep 24, 2008)

ba baracuss said:


> Bread is a killer for losing weight, as in no good.
> 
> I would avoid all bread if looking to lose weight.


Why? Bread won't affect weight loss. The sodium in it may bloat you and make it appear as if you have a bigger belly, but you won't actually be any fatter.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

europeandancer said:


> I advise you to burn more calories and eat less and i mean a lot less even if you get into a state of gluconeogenesis 'cose only then you'll burn but dont forget to lose fat you need carbs + fats associated to win the loss


Bang on. The calorie is king in the land of the fat cvnt!!!


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## Pithead (Aug 8, 2008)

FATBOY said:


> loads of cardio quite simple realy


You do cardio 3 times a week at gym. Can you buy an exercise bike and do another 2-3 sessions at home? Like 1 hour sessions.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

europeandancer said:


> Yes and i will say this one more time. You need fats and carbs to burn more fat. This is how the chemicals reactions takes place. FAT: 9cal - PROTEIN & CARB: 4cal ..


?????? Sorry you've lost me there mate. So what chemical reaction takes place then?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

europeandancer said:


> Yes and i will say this one more time. You need fats and carbs to burn more fat. This is how the chemicals reactions takes place. FAT: 9cal - PROTEIN & CARB: 4cal ..


Sure about this?

The fat, carb, and protein cals are right but your statement is wrong.

You do not need carbohydrates to lose bodyfat.

I have done a little experimant myself with this one.

Keto diet I lost 1" for every 4 pounds of bodyweight.

Zone diet (40/30/30), I lost 1" for every 5 pounds of bodyweight.

I liked the zone diet better, but the keto diet offered more fat loss, now over time this will stall, due to cortisol, and slowing of the thyroid.

But, I slowly introduced carbs in back very slowly and I started losing again, probably firing up the thyroid. The carbs I intorduced was just 10 grams each increase and that amounted to very low GI carbs.

Much study has been done on Keto diets here in the States.

For obese people, they work fantastic, sure there are some sides, but for the most part they work killer.

For bodybuilding it is a good idea to have cheat meals, or re-feeds.

Here is something to ponder.

If a person eats carbs their prefrence for fuel is glucose, or lets just call them sugar burners.

Keto diets, switch the body from being sugar burners to fat burners.

Now granted sitting on the couch burns predominantly fats.

Once in this fat burning stage, the body will target bodyfat for fuel.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

europeandancer said:


> This is what ACSM (American College of Science and Medecine) came up with and what is taught in the well reknown British YMCA Fit school -I had just graduated L3 Personal Trainer Award and that includes full nutrition course as Exercise Nutrition.
> 
> Now what works for you is fine but would not work for somebody else. Each and everyone is different as of their genetic, body composition and reaction to exercising and diet.
> 
> Cheers.


So, are you telling me that you have to have carbohydrates to burn fat because the above (ACSM) said so?

I don't care who told you what, it is a fact that you can burn fat without any presence of carbs, just ask the Eskimo's.

In fact I would venture to suggest to you that even more body fat can and will be lost with a reduction in carbohydrates, modifying this macro over any other.

What about the "Inuit Paradox"? They lived on Seal meat, fat and blubber, had less cardiovascular disease, less cavities, etc, and they were not a fat people either, not to mention they were a hearty people.

Numerous civilizations contradict your statement.

Or you can do a little looking around almost 100 years ago with the dude that lived on fats and protein alone, he lost allot of fat, all done over a year in a medical environment, his testament is here on the board somewhere.

Or, turn the clock back 100 years and see how they treated people with epilepsy, they stopped seizures with a ketogenic diet, and to this day they still do when anti-seizure drugs do not work. They monitored these kids for over 2 years and found nothing wrong with them physically.

So much for having to have carbohydrates.

The last people I want to listen to in dieting are the people in the medical community.

After all, they suggest far less protein than the bodybuilders recommend, less cholesterol than we eat, and are ok with a low cholesterol, low fat diet. Dude, this is criminal, and BS.

Is this the same people (medical community) that suggest eggs are bad, and breads are good right?

The food pyramid is not associated with agriculture too?

Or better said, not influenced with money?

I would like to see your thoughts on diets.

If you like I would like you to answer some questions, just to clear up the thread about where the medical community thinks about nutrition. Let's just let you be their spokesperson.

What percent of the population is insulin resistant?

Does insulin resistance have a relevance of excessive carbohydrate consumption?

If you answered yes to the last question why?

Are there more diabetics in our society than ever before, if so then why?

If approximately one third of the population has intolerance to carbohydrates, would these people be ok with adding in the requirements that the medical community suggests?

If ATP, converts to ADP during resistance exercise, and creatine borrows the phosphate bound creatine to donate its phosphate group to the ADP to re-form ATP, why are carbohydrates so important when meat is rich in creatine?

Oh, only one of the richest source (meat) of creatine.

Also one of the only supplements to suggest muscle building properties.

Are carbohydrates necessary for survival?

Please feel free to go into as much detail as you need, as associated with American College of Science and Medecine.

Careful how you respond to this question.

Do you feel that the American College of Science and Medecine has an in to the science of bodybuilding?

If so why?

Did you know that over 1/3% of the population in the US is insulin resistant?

Why is this?

If simple carbohydrates spike blood sugars, and insulin is there to drive down blood sugars, would spiking blood sugars be a good idea?

IF so or not please explain why?

If the body is carbohydrate defiecent, does it burn more muscle or fat?

Please explain why, and please go into details as the diffrence of resistance training or cardio training.

I would love to see how the American College of Science and Medecine would respond.

Please do not find this post offensive, I only want to learn by someone that has an inside of what is really going on.

I do not bury my head in the stand, I am all about learning, please enlighten me on these questions and I am all ears to what you have to say.................

All ears mate.........


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

ba baracuss said:


> Bread is a killer for losing weight, as in no good.
> 
> I would avoid all bread if looking to lose weight.


but as long as it has a low Gi it shud be fine right? whole grain bread?!



Pithead said:


> You do cardio 3 times a week at gym. Can you buy an exercise bike and do another 2-3 sessions at home? Like 1 hour sessions.


i can just go gym and do more cardio, no space for a bike at my house lol

this thread exploded, alot of discussions going on! thanks guys...

breaky this morning:

Alpen

protein shake (with water)

maybe apple, if i can find where i put em!


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

i think we are going too deep here

the problem with the chappie is that his diet was crap.

the calories from ice water or extra fibre are the 10% on top

the basics are

hes eating poor quality (and not enough) protein

" " "refined carbs (i.e pasties and things from the bakery)

not enough good fats

poor spacing of meals (infrequent) and of poor make up

so really its a diet overhaul and an application of bodybuilding principles i.e the 5 or 6 meals a day of balanced proportions

your first meal today is better - now stick to it and feed again in 3hrs ...

stick to it

write down and record what you do

be consistant


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## FATBOY (Mar 4, 2008)

noel said:


> i think we are going too deep here
> 
> the problem with the chappie is that his diet was crap.
> 
> ...


yes i have to agree keep it simple diet + cardio +consistancy is the key to fat loss


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i don't like pasties! lol i get the chicken wrap or a sandwhich, chicken mango on brown bread..but there is a litte sandwhich shop that do all homemade stuff, so yesterday i got peri peri chicken on whole grain bread with onions and lettuce...all low Gi? right

i eat every 2 hours at the mo, or 3 at max...


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i got a nice Perri Perri chicken on whole grain bread just now, she put sooo much chicken in it though  protein!!

also bought some oats, Basmati whole grain rice & fresh chicken breast..  in around 2-3 hours what's best to eat, i have some whole grain bread and some peanut putter, wud that be good for a snack along with a apple ?


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

for now it doesnt matter so much

snack - dont think of it like that - go for 6 meals..each one has protein - and then carbs and or fat.. depending on your goal/diet plan

over the weekend spend a little while putting a diet together with weights (i.e weighing the food out) and writting down the macros

then you can prepare your food on sunday say for monday /tue and off you go


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

yea will have to have sort it out for next week....

well I've not no more protein source at work now, had my 40g shake this morn, prop a good 50g protein in that chicken sandwich..

i need some energy for the gym around 6pm, leave work at 5.30...so wud 2 slices of brown bed and peanut butter give me enough energy for some cardio?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

europeandancer said:


> Sorry mate i forgot to include you along as a multiple repost but here you go (just copied and pasted from above):
> 
> Glycogen and fats are used for ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) in order for the muscle to contract though *it is true that as far as anaerobic goes only glycogen will be needed to supply the required energy* but as soon as you will turn into an aerobic effort then both fats and glycogen will come into play to release energy inside the muscle cell and therefore provides fuel for a low to moderate long cardio routine (10+ mns).. Cheers.
> 
> PS: fat cannot be used in the absence of oxygene that is a byproduct of aerobic system so indeed strict carbs will be used in anaerobic exercising.


What about ketones?

Would they supply the energy for anaerobic exercise?

I see you danced around my questions...........lol, that is ok, I was expecting that actually.



noel said:


> i think we are going too deep here
> 
> the problem with the chappie is that his diet was crap.
> 
> ...


I understand the complications of depth, but it was not for the original poster, and all suggestions were noted by myself and others earlier on in the post, but thank you for repeating what has already been said.

Your post just validates what he needs to do, thanks for that.



lookgoodnaked said:


> i don't like pasties! lol i get the chicken wrap or a sandwhich, chicken mango on brown bread..but there is a litte sandwhich shop that do all homemade stuff, so yesterday i got peri peri chicken on whole grain bread with onions and lettuce...all low Gi? right
> 
> i eat every 2 hours at the mo, or 3 at max...


My suggestions to you bro, would be to drop the bread for now, choose fiberous vegetables and high fiber low GI fruit carbs.

You will be so much better off in ridding your belly of that hard to get rid of fat.



europeandancer said:


> Keep your protein intake around 36/38grs as anything higher will be wasted.


Not trying to be argumentative but this statement is actually not true, PWO the amount of protein assimilated is higher than what you suggest, and actually it is more overall as well.



europeandancer said:


> Peanut butter is okay but high in GI so energy release will be short and depleted quick although your body will rely on stored glycogen and fats because of using 0² as its byproduct. (aerobic system)


Peanut butter is one of the lowest ratings in the GI, in fact so low that if you add it to let's say rice cakes that have a 100 GI rating, it lowers the glycemic load of that meal.

Peanut butter is a monounsaturated fat, and this type of fat will lower the glycemic load of any food it is mixed with.

Monounsaturated fats, as well as Omega 3 fats have no influence on the glycemic index.

It is actually the opposite of what you are suggesting.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

So i cant have scrambled eggs on brown toast for breaky


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## FATBOY (Mar 4, 2008)

yes m8 just leave out the butter and have 6 eggs but just one yolk this thread has got very complicated lol.

to be honest if your not willing to put yourself out and sacrifice a little then you will never lose wieght ,

a keto diet will strip you but it isnt easy it isnt for anyone .


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i know, i dunno what to follow now, so many different opinions! i do want to loose it, but i want enjoy what i'm eating!

just been gym, did biceps, triceps, chest, and shoulders, 2 sets per body part, and then some cardio....just had soem brown rice and 2 chicken legs 

here is some pics of what im dealing with!

it looks huge in pic!


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## FATBOY (Mar 4, 2008)

i dont mean to be blunt m8 but you need to stop fannying around suck it up and get stuck in to a strict diet , dieting is never fun but the results will far outweigh the sacrifice .


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

A few things.

Dancer I do agree that we all need to keep an open mind, sorry if you took my correcting you and calling you out as being personal.

You see, this is not something I just picked up from a class or a certification, I have gone back over 100 years in learning about the diffrent diets and they happen to interest me the most of any subject.

I have been training for 35 years.

My very original post was about insulin, and the original poster having problems with that.

I was offering my 2 cents from a personal standpoint, judging by the original posters pics, this only confirms exactally what my original post suggested.

TWo things can be the problem here, or a varying degree of both.

Estrogen to testosterone ratio, or too much insulin.

The former can be validated with blood work, and corrected if out of ballance.

The later is only a matter of him using food to satisify his goal.

I would bet alot of money it is insulin that got him into this problem using too many high glycemic index foods, and I would also bet money he is a bit insulin resistant.

We need to move him away from insulin resistance, and change his diet to put him into more of a fat burning stage, and his workout needs much improvement.

3 issues here

1. insulin resistance.

Exercise, along with fish oils, lower glycemic index carbs, and fiber would work wonders here.

2. diet change

You will need to drop all the processed foods, simple sugars, and swap to high fiber vegetables and low GI fruits like apples and berries as your carbohydrates. I would buy some apple pectin, and add that to every meal, as well as a few fish oils to every meal, this will slow digestion, lower spiking of blood sugars, lower the overall amount of insulin, and promote fat loss, lower inflimmation, and also help your lipid profile, not to mention help clean your colon......lol.

2 things lower the glycemic load of foods, fiber, and monounsaturated oils (olive), and fish oils, both oils are neutral in the GI, and fiber will lower the glycemic load.

You can have some bread, but not more than one piece, and make that have as much whole grain, seeds, and the highest in fiber.

If you want to lose that belly you better listen up, or later on in another 20 years it will be much bigger.

3. your training

This needs some help, I want you to do only compound movements and you have to do legs and all your muscle groups.

Here is an article I wrote a while ago and it fits here perfect for you.

Tips for teenagers wanting to start bodybuilding.

First of all I wish I had some information when I started out.

I was 15 years old when I first started training, for the most part I just watched the football players in school.

Sure they had some direction from the coaches and this is why I tried to copy them.

But bodybuilding is a different training philosophy than football training (American Football).

Bodybuilding in itself is not just lifting weights but we will focus on that here. It is a balance of diet, exercise and rest.

To make it simple, you grow when you sleep and not in the gym.

The idea is very simple, you stimulate the muscle, and let the body adapt to the stimulation you have given the muscle.

If you are eating and sleeping in theory you should grow.

This all can be shortchanged by not getting enough food, or not getting enough rest, these two things will hinder the body's recovery and growth.

Overtraining is another obstacle that most people will do without even knowing it, in the normal thinking of things, more is not better here.

Ok, best advice I can give for anyone starting out would be to stick to basic compound movements. Compound movement's mean that the exercise has more than one joint.

For instance leg extensions have one joint movement (knee), whereas squats will have knee, hip, ankle, etc.

What are basic compound exercises?

Squat, dead lift, military press, pull up's, bench press, incline press, bar dips, rowing exercises, etc.

You cannot go wrong by choosing all of the above in your workout routine.

Notice that curls and triceps are not included there?

That is because they are an isolation movement and not a compound movement.

Every one of those in some way or another hit arms, for instance. Bench will hit chest, front deltoids and also triceps. Military press will hit triceps, so will dips. Actually those three exercises will hit the whole tricep.

Now that we have the basic compound exercises identified, we will figure out what rep range we want to use. I have found that a rep range of between 8 to 12 reps to work very well for most people, some may like less reps, some may like more, but we will stick to those for now as 70% of your 1 rep max will work 90% of both slow and fast twitch muscles. Or in simple terms, it will work all your muscles, which is what we want.

Remember these rep ranges are on your own with no help from someone else, if you need help to get to your 8th rep, then you are going too heavy.

It is often said, control the weight or the weight will control you.

What does this mean?

This means that you choose a weight you can do comfortably without having to cheat or ask for help to execute the exercise. It is a good idea to use the full range of the movement and not do half reps, or cheat reps. This is not only good practice but also will help you to avoid injury.

I know it looks good using big weights in the gym and others are watching you, but if you use a weight you can handle, over time you will get stronger, and what you lift tomorrow will be more than you lift today.

It is a good idea to write your lifts down to compare from week to week or month to month. Once you have a weight you do more than 12 reps with, next week, you will add some weight to the bar and probably take you back down to the 8 rep mark.

Remember Rome was not built in a day and neither was Arnold.

Now that we have the exercises down, the rep range down, let's focus on how many exercises for each body part. I myself like to work with about 3 different exercises per body part, for instance, I like to do bench, inclines and dips for chest, pull downs, bent over rows, and dead lifts for back. I occasionally do add another rowing exercise to that due to most people do too much pushing and not enough pulling exercises.

Remember the bigger muscle groups will generally have more exercises than let's say the smaller muscle groups like let's say biceps. For some reason biceps tend to get more attention than most other muscle groups. Arms in particular seem to be everyone's favorite to work. It might sound strange that many don't even work arms directly as they get hit with all the compound lifts.

So, not only should they not be a focus, but they should be the least focus.

Arms will grow if you do compound exercises period. Yes it is ok to do some arm work but it is not priority.

So, let's think of the bigger muscle groups as having between 3 to 4 different exercises per large group and 2 exercises for the smaller muscle groups.

Remember this is not the rule, only a suggestion&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..

And lastly Dancer, ketones can be used exclusivly for fuel for very extended periods of time with no health conciquences.

I have dont keto diets with no carbs, and I lost zero strength, some stamina, but not strength (1 rep max).

In fact I see the original poster doing quite well on a keto diet, he looks like one of the best candidates I can think of.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

europeandancer said:


> Overall this is an excellent post and i can only agree with you (except the last bit part  .. but that's my opinion and respect yours.. You definitely have a strong background in fitness and diet and so i can tell this is the reason why you learnt your position as a mod. Well done.
> 
> Cheers.


Fair play mate.

I want to thank you for your kind words.

It is ok if you do not agree with me.

This thread brought alot of information to the table.

I would like you to keep me in check with information that is usable.

You can teach me, like I can teach you.

Iron sharpens iron like one man sharpens another.

I expect others to keep me in my place, I am not infallable.

To the original poster, dude, you need to control insulin, you have a fair amount of muscle, and it is a good amount of that.

But, if you do your training with any amount of intensity, and hit both your legs and lower back, the spike in GH and testosterone would be oh so awesome to you.

You can easily achieve your goal with the information that has been supplied, from all posters............

If anyone felt slighted with my post's, I appoligize, that was not my intention, nor my nature.................I am here to learn, just like anyone else.....

If my ego ruffled anyones ego, sorry..................I love you Brit's


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Go for Low Carb , High whey prot and High intensity cardio no less than 30 mins


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## jonti1leg (Sep 21, 2008)

cAn't emphasise how importaning diet and diet and diet is... tis the key to everything...get it wrong... you'll still have your belly this time next year.... try carb cycling along with cardio...60% diet, 40% training, maybe even more, on the diet side


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

well it's been a good weekend of healthy eating, chicken and rice and veg, very boring lol, my bro and his g-f had Chinese, u had chicken and veg 

going to workout tonight, more cardio, and some back....i injured my back around 2 months ago doing rows, lost my form for a rep and heard lower back twinge, it still hurts now, so i gotta stay away from squats and dead lifts for now...

so shud i be only doing pure cardio, when i do weights i do a full workout but only say 2-3 sets ber body part and with 30-60 second rests between sets....


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

cheers  gotta go out and buy more chicken breasts now! lol

sorry will rep all u guy's soon for ya help


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

got hold of some Nando's marinade, some people mentioned it on the recipes thread, hope this add's some flavor to the boring chicken breasts 

what should i be having after a cardio session, did around a hour yesterday, was starving when i got home, had chicken breast and loads of pea's no carbs? is that a mistake, i was going to stick some oats in a blend with some water and down that?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Peas do have carbs in them, they are ok, a bit high in the GI, but less than what you were getting.

Yes, blended oats are fine.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

europeandancer said:


> Best advice of all: go on swimming and it will keep your forms and wont put as much strenght on your back and the best overall fat burner ..


I'm not sure on this? I've changed 1 cardio session to swimming for the past 4 weeks and I'm thinking of going back to HIIT as I'm sure my bf is going up:confused1:

Are there any facts to back this up? I did always think it was the best but I'm a tad confused now:confused1:

:beer:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Look at the diffrence between the bodies of olympic swimmers and olympic sprinters.

Let me know which one is leaner and looks better?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

europeandancer said:


> From a personal point of view i'ld definitely say a swimmer body is a killer body unless you are talking versus 100 meters sprinter ? Versus 1500 meters or long distance runner was what i had in mind ...


100 meter sprinters have awesome bodies, men and women.

Great example of HIIT training, it is based on intensity, this intensity generates much Growth hormone out put, and also can raise T levels.

Hormonally speaking it is far superior to cardio.

Plus fat burning is much longer.

Swimming can have its own set of problems like swimmers ear, I cant really deal with that anymore. My ears get jacked everytime I go into a pool now.

I also have swimmers ear.

HIIT can also be done in the pool.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

europeandancer said:


> I can sooo relate to this -- I always get a funny feeling of water stucked inside the ear even hours after the swim .. By the way (and because i had seen it around too often) so i had to ask lol hmm what "HIIT" stands for ? High Intensity something ... ?


High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT).

It basically is very short intense workouts similar to something like wind sprints.

I do this when I do cardio sometimes; I am trying to rehab my knees some, so I use the bike. I warm-up, then push it to a level way higher than I can do, and then I go to failure, then I back down the resistance and intensity to warm-up, easy resistance and recuperate.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

No offence, but I doubt any of this is going to help the OP. I got seriously bored.

Fat Boy has said this already, but in a nutshell the OP just needs to man up, sort his diet out and increase energy expenditure.

OP - Daily cardio. Weights 3x per week for an hour. I'd suggest a sub 1800kcal diet. You're insulin sensitive. I'd suggest you may enjoy beer and take aways and perhaps skip breakfast or meals and then binge.

Keto Diet is your best bet IMHO. Add in carbs (30g oats) prior to weight training. You shouldn't need a refeed on a regular basis, but a cheat meal ever 3 weeks won't hurt. If you drink currently then stop.

You can do whatever cardio you like. I'd suggest you vary it.

With hard work you should be able to loose ~1st per month. I would guess it will take 4 months minimum of hard work to loose the belly.

Euro Dancer - the vast majority of your argument is frankly irrelevant. Why are you arguing the toss over ATP / CP / VO2Max / Ketones / Aerobic and Anerobic performance when the OP just wants to loose his stomach?

The body will convert dietary protein to glucose where required in order to prevent muscle catabolism. The body will happily function once adjusted to the primary fuel source shift from glucose to ketones. The body once adjusted can switch in and out of ketosis every few hours as required.

OP - Work hard and loose the belly.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Short story....

I see this as more of insulin control more than anything...

Insulin sensitivity is awesome.

Getting there is the key.

Good luck mate.............


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

europeandancer said:


> Mate listen ... i am not arguing anything and every single of my points were made clear so what is irrelevant to you might not be for someone else -- by the way check the Welcome Forum and try not to be as abusive as you are then perhaps people will listen.


Your points were irrelevant the OPs goals, and served no purpose other than to highlight to everyone reading you have the ability to copy and paste from a YMCA L3 book.

If you find my posts abusive then I would suggest you learn to control your oestrogen levels and stop behaving like a small girl.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

this thread has become a proper encyclopedia :laugh:

@Tall

Thanks mate for setting me straight....im doing good so far

brought some chicken into work with me today, but in brown pita bread :whistling: it's the only thing i cud find this morn! was too late to cook rice...

will do tonight though set for 2momrw :thumb:

overall i feel like something is happening, even if it isn't i feel good :cool2:

so wat veg shud i eat, i love peas!  so u say cut out carbs or keep them low, around 100g a day? what about pre and post workouts? wud u advise to get some fiber supplement?

Thanks again for all your help guys :thumb:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Vegies are easy, think Green...........lol

Green beens, broccoli, asparagus, spinich, all are very high in fiber, very low in the GI, pack a nice wallop for minerals, and vitamins.

I would also consider taking 1 kelp tablet a day, good for the thyroid and has almost every trace mineral there is. Many old diets supplemented kelp.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Vegies are easy, think Green...........lol
> 
> Green beens, broccoli, asparagus, spinich, all are very high in fiber, very low in the GI, pack a nice wallop for minerals, and vitamins.
> 
> I would also consider taking 1 kelp tablet a day, good for the thyroid and has almost every trace mineral there is. Many old diets supplemented kelp.


Can't agree with the above sentiment more.

@LGN - have a look at the latter pages of YetiMans journal where we moved him onto a Keto diet, with him eating plenty of green veg.

Green veg has many many heath and performance related benefits, far to many to number.

Kelp, Brewers Yeast, 600g Green Veg a Day were the first changes Cookie made to my diet and I've never looked back.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

planned my food out for today for work,

having alpen for breaky with 40g protein shake with water,

lunch brown rice (uncle ben packet, didn't have time to cook rice) with some chicken breast,

for my pre-wo at 6 tonight, 50g oats blended with 20g whey

then when home, cook some more chicken breast and veggies 

think i need much more food in there though, i didn't want to eat the same thing 2 times in a row.

on this kelp subject, i did a quick google found this

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/ate/growthandmetabolism/203575.html

is any of it is true? has it worked for u guys?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Not sure really, I just remember way back when that most diets had kelp in them.

They have something like 70 trace minerals in them, and with that, you cant go wrong, between alfalfa and kelp, together they have every mineral, so I dont see the big deal here, if your thyroid was a bit sluggish, then yah, possibly kelp may help.

Another thing bro.

When you buy instant stuff for example, they generally have a higher GI than the other stuff.

Example would be oats, the instant oats have the highest GI of all the oats, followed by the 5 minute stuff then the others like steel ground (best ones).

So, get the good rice, the wild stuff, that has the outter coating on them, not white.

I dont want to bore you with too much stuff, but if you keep that diet with protein, good fats, and low GI carbs, you will lose that belly, as long as you dont over feed.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

sup guys,

im still eating my chicken and vegg everyday! just had lunch at work (chicken and veg) but after around an hour i feel hungry again! im cravin something so bad! but i cant my other meal (chicken & Brown rice) meal untill around hour and half before workout...i had an apple and loads of water...what else can i do?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You can try adding in a little bit of olive oil with the vegetables.


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i do, need to get some more though lol...

someone mentioned on another thread about eating low gi won't work, just calories in and out shud do it? I'm proper confused

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/44906-low-gi-carbs.html


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## peglar (Nov 20, 2008)

lol LGN

i have been given so many different forms of advice by so many different people on different boards.

you would think that if there were so many different ways to lose the gut it would be easy right?

being hungry can be a mind over matter thing as well. if you keep yourself busy and dont clock watch till your next meal you will find it much easier. then one day in the not too distant future you will suddenly realise that you dont feel hungry between your small meals because you have adjusted.

just my 2 pennies worth.

Good luck dude!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

Go for a strict carb cycling approach as PScarb has written in his thread.

when im leaning down i do 4 days extremely low carbs, 1 day medium carbs, 1 day re-feed day, then 1 medium carb day, then back on to the 4 low carb days. On the low days il have plenty of fats, fibrous veg, peanut butter, lean meats, (theres loads you can do to have a very low carb diet you've just got to make time to find the info about the foods most of this info is on other threads).

E.g. Fibrous veg with extra virgin olive oil and a few extra olives in there ( a whole drained tin to be exact) with some red salmon goes down a treat before bed!!! Also on my low days im up at 530 every morning doing LIT cardio for 1 hour. then il brush my teeth take a dump, wipe my ar5e then have a protein shake with 0-2g of carbs in it... il then wait about a 45 mins then have breaky!! <----This is just to give you a ruff idea of how i do it.

you've got to really want to lose that gut though.. as dieting like this does take quite a bit of determination, theres no magic pill just hard work and application of knowledge.

Also cut out the beer and all alc for a while.. if you must drink.. just drink water!!


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

but when i feel hungry, i feel as my body is not getting anything and is making it worse by not eating! i been reading some info on the \keto diet too, i tried the akins around 3 years ago, that lost me some good weight  might, MIGHT have to try keto one... but still confused ha ha


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

carb cycling is the way forward young one


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

lol another diet!!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

its the only diet!!! i used to have the problem of leaning down, read up on what PScarb said and put into practice, and it is the best!! just have look at his thread he explains everyting in detail..


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

Currently carb cycling at the mo. Been on it two weeks and my house mate swears I'm looking a bit leaner already, not sure myself though!

Surprised how quickly I took to it to be honest, as I love pasta, rice etc


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

so whats diff between both keto and carb cycling? i just think the keto wud make me loose the fat quicker, and i have done a low carb diet before, so i know what to eat.. if i had to add certain amount of carbs in, it will confuse me!


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

on my low carb diet days im prob having about 8 - 12 (max) grams of carbs.. but i do get crazy crazy carb cravings..its hard but its got to be done.

Its not actually that difficult to count up the nutritional make up of your foods your planning on eating. theres loads of websites that have the break downs etc. Geo i think put up a list of foods along these lines on one of his diet threads. gives you a break down of fats carbs and protein per food source (per 100 grams i think)


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

got some kelp at lunch from waitrose,

says on the side 250mg tablet contains 50h(h)g of iodine (h) is suppose to be upside down lol

says take 2-3 times daily? what shud i be taking and when?


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

have you read Ps carbs post on carb cycling??


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

yea i did, was looooong old post, bit confusing sometimes, but got the gist of it, it's the fact of counting exactly how many carbs a day, and then diff amounts, don't think i cud eat up to 300g of carbs of wholegrain rice!! maybe white rich 

still think id have more joy on keto, but I'm going to carry on with what I'm doing now, which is eat healthy, chicken and veg 3-4 times a day, only carbs pre-wo in the way of whole grain granary bread...

calories a day are around 1600-1800...but am going to start logging in Fitday app...

I'm pretty much on a keto diet, only getting around 50-80 grams carbs a day, most of it from veg and rest from pre-wo carbs.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hey bro, if you are really hungry, grab some peanuts, they curb my appitite better than anything and I dont crave after I eat them.

Just dont eat a hole bottle of them, just enough to get something light in your stomach.

Diffrence between a keto diet and a carb cycle diet is simple.

Keto diets are carb restricted, this puts the body full time in ketosis, this is where fat is the primary fuel.

Carb cycling diets are refeeds to restore glycogen stores.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

:thumb: :thumb : :thumb: :thumb :


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Hey bro, if you are really hungry, grab some peanuts, they curb my appitite better than anything and I dont crave after I eat them.
> 
> Just dont eat a hole bottle of them, just enough to get something light in your stomach.
> 
> ...


already a head of ya mate, got a bag of mixed nuts, cashew, brazil and almonds...i have a hand full, but still stomach feels empty...

i have 2 slices of whole grain bread in my bag too, wud that be ok to eat now with peanut butter for pre-workout Cardiod session? only other way to get energised is pro plus tablets

I've pretty much turned into a keto diet, well apart from eating alpen for breaky and the odd brown rice before workout...if i lose all the carbs and go on keto and eat simply meats i shud lose fat quicker right?

also mate, the KELP tablets? how many do i need to take...


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

when im feeling hungry when dieting.. i fill my belly with water fills me up for a while..


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

been doing that lol. done around 2 littre water today, all the way to the gym i'm always gagging for a ****!! hate traffic!!

any suggestion if i shud munch on the bread before workout? if i go as i am, il be starving and feel so  in about an hour

OR grab a kafine kick at the gym?


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

i normally use Dorians Nox pupm(the old one) or drop a few grenades before my workouts if im feelin like that.. try drinknig 4 litres a day you'll be pi55in out your ears!


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i dont want to be consuming lots of sugar too if you know what i mean, i get proper shakes after a good kafine kick lol


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

try an ECA stack


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

lol ur like a walking chemist  i had the wholegrain bread...will make my workout much more fuelled i think


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

yeh you'll pick it up as you try new things and read up more and more.. a lot of people use ECA stacks i prefer the chemicals to bread!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, I find on a keto diet I have less binging, and am less hungry and actually have more energy.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

i just find it really hard to wake up in the mornings when dieting.. not to much tiredness out the norm throughout the day.. but the office can make me lethargic..


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Well, I find on a keto diet I have less binging, and am less hungry and actually have more energy.


I dony have any energy at all on the way to gym fom work i feel well sleepy!!


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## abbtastic1980 (Nov 25, 2008)

I personally seem to get really tired around 2-3pm, but after an hr i am fine again. Maybe i just need to go to bed earlier at night! lol

Fascinating post to read by the way!

Good luck with it mate.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

yeh think mines the late nights too... think ill have to move the Xbox out the bedroom...


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

was up peoples!

I been away for a while...hectic crap going on in life and work...so havent been on here for ages!!

I'm still on a quest to get rid of my BELLY! i seem to be leaning down more on arms, not comlaing as they look wicked when im in the gym 

seems to be the belly is that last place my body is gonna give up fat...but it will have to go to there soon right? 

my diet has been bit on and off, trying to keep to around 1800kal a day then one day a week go over it as a little boost...

should be getting our kitchen sorted soon, so i can get back to eating HEALTHIER again!

hope ya all good and doing well at the gym and diet

Peace


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## spike1 (Mar 10, 2009)

consistancy my friend

not 'on and off'

glad your still pluggin away at it though


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

hey everyone!

i been doing cardio all week for past 2 weeks, 45-60 mins keeping heart rate at 115-120 BPM for all the time on bike and cross trainer.

im down to 172lbs! but my body fat is showing at 35% for some reason! which I'm really confused about, as i was 24% before that, I'm going off what the BF scales say...so how can it change to 35% from 24% all of a sudden? am i loosing muscles instead of fat

been eating around under 1800 kal a day, then once a week go over 1800 as a jolt to the metob...

i do have the callipers, but i'm not sure how to use them right, i mean i can pinch some fat on my belly, but when measuring again, how can i know I'm not pinching a bit more fat or less... that's what i don't understand with these callipers.


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

train abs then train abs and then train them a bit more


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

ignore the scales for now buddy, just judge on how you look in the mirror and how you measure up. are you running a keto diet?


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

nope, can't do that diet, i just can't survive on it...

i don't like to be moody, i get ****ed when on that...

isn't sticking to controlled kal diet enough to loose weight? you know the old burn more than you consume 

I'm waiting on my bro to get the kitchen done, as we only have a crappy hob and a little oven thing, So motivation to cook in the "kitchen" is not good...

so i'm just having a shake in the morn as soon as i get up, then at work wholemeal bread with some organic peanut butter and tea...

chicken sand which fro lunch... (while will be changed to something made at home once kitchen is done)

but for now i just not eaten too much and hitting light carido for 5-6 days a week..

i don't think it's coming off on my belly, my arms are the first place i think, as i can see viens were ive never seen them before  im under 12st now though..just hope it's fat loss though !


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

do some morning cardio too before breakfasts, drop the bread.. eat more fish


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## lookgoodnaked (Nov 11, 2008)

i can't do carido in morn, can't get to gym and get to work and have enough time, gotta be up at 6.45am, and I'm not a early sleeper, so i don't sleep till 11pm....

only days i could get cardio in morning is weekends..


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## tylerx (Feb 20, 2008)

I am not here to hijack this thread and I ask adance apologies from you you Mr Lookgoodnaked. I'm 5"10 218 lbs, 17 % and in great shape except for my gut its the only area where I am storing excess fat and I mean EXCESS fat.

I have tried everything. However tonight after reading this awesome thread Mr. Lookgoodnaked started I have had a moment of clarity. I am not going to go into too much detail as I do not what to detract from the original poster however; I remember what great shape I was as a sprinter 205lbs 10% bf and I now I know how the hell I am going to get back into that former shape. Keto,HIT and discipline. I will intelligently adjust things along the way.

Sir Hackskii and and all those who have contributed to this brilliant thread; I salute you all. Thank you.


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