# protein is there a need for it



## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

i am thinking again about the protein i take now i was eating 6 meals a day having about 300 grams of protein be to be honest i am starting to think its all a big con when people say you need loads of protein i have stopped eating every 3 hours now and i just eat about 3 meals a day i dont have any carbs such as pasta and rice as i think its the devil i am only having about 100 gram of protine a day now and eat only chickhen / oats / veg / eggs / whey / tuna / pitta bread / and its working great am not putting fat on plus i am still getting bigger putting lean mussle on i feel great


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Im not even saying anything


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

are you sure your not just losing fat making the muscles appear bigger, eventualy i would imagine only having 100g of protien per day and very little carbs will cause massive muscle loss, once youve burned of that body fat the only thing to burn then is your muscles


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## mick_the_brick (Oct 29, 2008)

LOL


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Im not even saying anything


 :lol:


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

if your getting bigger why you doubting it then just carry on and don't bang on about it


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

100g protein.

No carbs.

So that's 400 calories a day.

How much fat are you eating?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

If it works for you then do it mate.Iget all my protein from food,but i do need 6 meals a day, none of it comes from powder.However its a different story if you are,say dieting for a contest and you are on low carbs 30-40 a day.You would need 500 g a day from food and powder for conversion to energy and retention of muscle.to much info sorry.


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Hmmmm...ok !


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## GHS (Oct 6, 2008)

:lol:

400 cals a day making 'lean gains'....

SO thats the secret


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

Wee G said:


> 100g protein.
> 
> No carbs.
> 
> ...


That ' s actually around 300 calories

Anyway, if calories are adequate , 100 g of protein are also adequate.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Mate he's eating oats eggs bread n stuff read his diet.


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

mal said:


> If it works for you then do it mate.Iget all my protein from food,but i do need 6 meals a day, none of it comes from powder.However its a different story if you are,say dieting for a contest and you are on low carbs 30-40 a day.You would need 500 g a day from food and powder for conversion to energy and retention of muscle.to much info sorry.


 if your having 30 or 40 carbs per day you still wouldnt need 500 g protien per day you would make the calorie differance up from healthy fats and stick to 1.5 g per 1 lb of bodyweight that should never change.......the diet the op has posted is the worst ive ever heard off smack heads eat more than that


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## James Clifton (Jan 16, 2010)

scouse9976 said:


> y i dont have any carbs such as pasta and rice as i think its the devil i am only having about 100 gram of protine a day now and eat only chickhen / oats / veg / eggs / whey / tuna / pitta bread / and its working great am not putting fat on plus i am still getting bigger putting lean mussle on i feel great


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't oats and pitta bread count towards carbs?


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

scouse9976 said:


> i am thinking again about the protein i take now i was eating 6 meals a day having about 300 grams of protein be to be honest i am starting to think its all a big con when people say you need loads of protein i have stopped eating every 3 hours now and i just eat about 3 meals a day i dont have any carbs such as pasta and rice as i think its the devil i am only having about 100 gram of protine a day now and eat only chickhen / oats / veg / eggs / whey / tuna / pitta bread / and its working great am not putting fat on plus i am still getting bigger putting lean mussle on i feel great


Could you please count how many calories u re having on training and non training days?

Eating 10 slices of pita bread is not the same as 1 in terms of calories


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)




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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

Talking about this with my physio last night and when I mentioned taking 350g a day whilst on cycle, he said it was way too much, there's never been any evidence to prove you need that much, even at pro level. He never used that much and he was virtually at pro level. 250g a day is enough for most as your body can only assimilate so much. But everyone is different, I just got fat eating that much even on gear. If your growing and you're happy, who cares it's what's right for you.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

BillC said:


> Talking about this with my physio last night and when I mentioned taking 350g a day whilst on cycle, he said it was way too much, there's never been any evidence to prove you need that much, even at pro level. He never used that much and he was virtually at pro level. 250g a day is enough for most as your body can only assimilate so much. But everyone is different, I just got fat eating that much even on gear. If your growing and you're happy, who cares it's what's right for you.


Still saying nothing

non comprendes


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## Jay.32 (Dec 12, 2008)

What do you reckon Rams?

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Still saying nothing
> 
> non comprendes


Just post the pic of that fat cnut you and Bri train with, him that gets most of his cals from shakes and eats 500g+ protein per day.

You know the one i mean!


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

BillC said:


> Talking about this with my physio last night and when I mentioned taking 350g a day whilst on cycle, he said it was way too much, there's never been any evidence to prove you need that much, even at pro level. He never used that much and he was virtually at pro level. 250g a day is enough for most as your body can only assimilate so much. But everyone is different, I just got fat eating that much even on gear. If your growing and you're happy, who cares it's what's right for you.


 if you eat too much pro for your bodyweight then the body will convert it to gloucose through a process called glougogennises( spelt wrong) your liver will then store the converted gloucose as glygogen in the liver and if you dont burn it off then it will store as fat that why you need to stay at about 1.5 g per 1 lbs of bodyweight......its not only carbs thats get stored as glygogen protien dose too if your not carfull


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

ste247 said:


> if you eat too much pro for your bodyweight then the body will convert it to gloucose through a process called glougogennises( spelt wrong) your liver will then store the converted gloucose as glygogen in the liver and if you dont burn it off then it will store as fat that why you need to stay at about 1.5 g per 1 lbs of bodyweight......its not only carbs thats get stored as glygogen protien dose too if your not carfull


can't.... hold... much....longer

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

must... not... get... involved...


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

ste247 said:


> if your having 30 or 40 carbs per day you still wouldnt need 500 g protien per day you would make the calorie differance up from healthy fats and stick to 1.5 g per 1 lb of bodyweight that should never change.......the diet the op has posted is the worst ive ever heard off smack heads eat more than that


 I think the guy just needs some simple advice.that was what i was eating 2 weeks out from contest as part of my prep.like i said to much info!


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

Diet 70%/80% shakes, 500g+ protein:

Interested in the comparison pics of the 200g protein, solid foods people?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

rs007 said:


> can't.... hold... much....longer
> 
> :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
> 
> must... not... get... involved...


 OH! where do i get the green tea


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi amounts of steroids and gh will help you use more protein,and lower carb diets will convert protein into energy,its simple.


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

rs007 said:


> can't.... hold... much....longer
> 
> :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
> 
> must... not... get... involved...


 why is my info incorrect lol



mal said:


> Hi amounts of steroids and gh will help you use more protein,and lower carb diets will convert protein into energy,its simple.


 if you use protien as energy then that means you need to eat double what you need in one day or you will lose muscle simple even with roids, so why eat double the amount of pro when you can eat more carbs and fat and balance it out more and eat some food thats also tastes good......


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

mal said:


> I think the guy just needs some simple advice.that was what i was eating 2 weeks out from contest as part of my prep.like i said to much info!


 its not to much info the info is dont eat to much pro, eat the correct amount for your body weight 500 grams is no good neither is 100 grams.


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

T.F. said:


> Diet 70%/80% shakes, 500g+ protein:
> 
> Interested in the comparison pics of the 200g protein, solid foods people?


Impressive body indeed but that would be a silly comparison when besides diet , GENES, years of training, years of drug use all vary greatly.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

*RRRRRRAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR*












scouse9976 said:


> i am thinking again about the protein i take now i was eating 6 meals a day having about 300 grams of protein be to be honest i am starting to think its all a big con when people say you need loads of protein i have stopped eating every 3 hours now and i just eat about 3 meals a day i dont have any carbs such as pasta and rice as i think its the devil i am only having about 100 gram of protine a day now and eat only chickhen / oats / veg / eggs / whey / tuna / pitta bread / and its working great am not putting fat on plus i am still getting bigger putting lean mussle on i feel great


you must be a fkn freak of nature



rs007 said:


> Im not even saying anything


i've wrecked my house



Andrikos said:


> That ' s actually around 300 calories
> 
> Anyway, if calories are adequate , 100 g of protein are also adequate.


Oh fuk off and get a grip.

(btw 1g prot = 4kcals 100g prot = 400kcals)


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

Andrikos said:


> Impressive body indeed but that would be a silly comparison when besides diet , GENES, years of training, years of drug use all vary greatly.


Indeed, but by that same logic, they're all silly comparisons, because we all have different genes, diet, training backgrounds, drug histories, workouts, bodily needs, etc.

I just posted that pic to reflect the fact that 500g+ protein daily does not mean you'll get fat, as some people seem determined to say.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

i need to go have a [email protected] and calm down before this thread expands any further.

Tho i have to point out how i love the fact its the guys with the inferior physiques that 99% of the time insist that 'you dont need that much protein'

yes.

clearly.

can tell that from looking at your pics.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

ste247 said:


> its not to much info the info is dont eat to much pro, eat the correct amount for your body weight 500 grams is no good neither is 100 grams.


 I understand what your saying and your correct.but as far as the diet i was following, i does not count as i needed calories from that amount.I was consuming it for energy.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

wow - i just had deja vu


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

> Oh fuk off and get a grip.
> 
> (btw 1g prot = 4kcals 100g prot = 400kcals)


That value came originally from measurements on a bomb calorimeter. Humans require energy to digest protein , so 20% of a protein's calories are burnt through the digestion process.That' why when carbs are replaced by protein in a diet people loose fat

So 400X0,8=320kcal.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

500 g protein -30g carbs 8 days. 1 and half days baked pot every hour.12 ltrs of water a day,urinate every 20 mins ,shredded ripped veins on my veins.99 welsh nabba champ.

worked for me.


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

T.F. said:


> Indeed, but by that same logic, they're all silly comparisons, because we all have different genes, diet, training backgrounds, drug histories, workouts, bodily needs, etc.
> 
> I just posted that pic to reflect the fact that 500g+ protein daily does not mean you'll get fat, as some people seem determined to say.


From my experience lots ofpeople that push the envelope push it in every area.Be it protein , be it training, be it years of training, be it drugs.And that's fine , but we can t really distinguish the cause and effect thing from the coincedence.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Andrikos said:


> That value came originally from measurements on a bomb calorimeter. Humans require energy to digest protein , so 20% of a protein's calories are burnt through the digestion process.That' why when carbs are replaced by protein in a diet people loose fat
> 
> So 400X0,8=320kcal.


but the persons still getting 400kcals - yes their energy expenditure has increased but they are still getting 400kcals. the intake side of the equation remains, the expendiutere side raises


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

God said:


> The point is lots of protein whether from food or shakes will get the job done. If in doubt take in lots.


 you need to take the correct amount of carbs pro and fat for your bodyweight.........if you keep carbs and fat at the correct amount but increase the protien up to double what you need then it will turn to glygogen and as you will burn your carbs off first for energy the converted protien ( glygogen ) will be stored as fat....its simple not rockert sciance......read any decent nutrition book in the world it will tell you the same.......even when on low carbs you dont increase the protien as this will just have the same affect as carbs do, be stored as glygogen so then there is no point in going low carbs........taking in too much protien is foolish imo even when taking gear......the only time you should go low carbs exept for keto diets is peak week.......


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> but the persons still getting 400kcals - yes their energy expenditure has increased but they are still getting 400kcals. the intake side of the equation remains, the expendiutere side raises


No I insist , they re getting 320. The path that this occurs is well established , still irrelevant.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

WOOSAH


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Andrikos said:


> No I insist , they re getting 320. The path that this occurs is well established , still irrelevant.


wether you insist or not mate,you are wrong,you eat an gram of protein,you are ingesting 4ckals,your body cant bloody start to burn 20% of the calorie from the protein before its entered the body,or maybe you are different.........


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Andrikos said:


> No I insist , they re getting 320. The path that this occurs is well established , still irrelevant.


In fact to take your reasoning a step further,lets say i consume 2500 kcals every day,yet my body only burns up 2000 kcals,does that mean i have only consumed 500 kcals?

no of course it doesnt,but thats what your logic is dictating,your discounting part of the calorific value before its even entered the body.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

God said:


> Better? :thumb:


a little bit,watched a cpl of BBC's tear up a tiny little blonde,shot my blob,came back on here,saw more silly comments and now realise i cant stay and argue as i have to make my preworkout meal and get ready to head to gym shortly.


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## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

weeman said:


> WOOSAH


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

MUSKRAT


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

God said:


> In theory yes but as Weeman, Rams and others have pointed out on numerous occasions all the big guys take in lots of protein. You need a decent amount to grow. You can put loads of thought into the science behind it but the fact remains to become big you need to get lots of protein inside you. I don't mean you have to have 500g a day but far more than 100g. Surely you agree there? All IMO of course.


 i agree 100% the bigger you get the more protien you will need, but why have more or too much protien when it will just be converted to energy or stored as fat, when you can eat tasty carbs that will be converted to energy or stored as fats... .....the importance of having correct amounts nutriants ie pro, carbs, fats, is so that you gain muscle and minimal fat isnt that what this is all about.........weeman should know that better than anyone seems he dose shows ect.......iam sure pscarb wouldnt overkill his protein intake, on a bulk you can get away with it but will gain fat, on a cut defo not


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## Bri (Jul 15, 2009)

scouse9976 said:


> i am thinking again about the protein i take now i was eating 6 meals a day having about 300 grams of protein be to be honest i am starting to think its all a big con when people say you need loads of protein i have stopped eating every 3 hours now and i just eat about 3 meals a day i dont have any carbs such as pasta and rice as i think its the devil i am only having about 100 gram of protine a day now and eat only chickhen / oats / veg / eggs / whey / tuna / pitta bread / and its working great am not putting fat on plus i am still getting bigger putting lean mussle on i feel great


mate i think you're a biiit craazzzzzzzyyy. you need more of everything man particuarly carbs to fuel your workout. and definitely much more than 3 meals a day. i like to have 6 or 7 but some guys have more.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

ste247 said:


> i agree 100% the bigger you get the more protien you will need, but why have more or too much protien when it will just be converted to energy or stored as fat, when you can eat tasty carbs that will be converted to energy or stored as fats... .....the importance of having correct amounts nutriants ie pro, carbs, fats, is so that you gain muscle and minimal fat isnt that what this is all about.........weeman should know that better than anyone seems he dose shows ect.......iam sure pscarb wouldnt overkill his protein intake, on a bulk you can get away with it but will gain fat, on a cut defo not


yup as tated many times my prot intake is around the 1.8g per lb mark estimated on lean stage weight,i almost always start of my prep diets on slightly too much prot to account for any possible lean tissue gain at the start and then start to reel the number in when/if its needed as i get leaner and can guestimate what my stage weight is going to be more accurately


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

weeman said:


> In fact to take your reasoning a step further,lets say i consume 2500 kcals every day,yet my body only burns up 2000 kcals,does that mean i have only consumed 500 kcals?
> 
> no of course it doesnt,but thats what your logic is dictating,your discounting part of the calorific value before its even entered the body.


Weeman maybe you have not noticed , I am reffering to protein induced thermogenesis :

*The thermic effect of nutrients, expressed as percentage of their energy content, is 2-3% for lipids, 6-8% for carbohydrates and 25-30% for proteins. *

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12174324

I can 't follow you on that example you re asking, that' s not what I am saying clearly


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Andrikos said:


> Weeman maybe you have not noticed , I am reffering to protein induced thermogenesis :
> 
> *The thermic effect of nutrients, expressed as percentage of their energy content, is 2-3% for lipids, 6-8% for carbohydrates and 25-30% for proteins. *
> 
> ...


mate,at what point did ANYONE refer to protein induced thermogenesis with regards to calories in a gram of protein in this thread?

no,no one did,did they.......please stay relevant to the debate at hand instead of skewing facts and throwing confusion on the situation.


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

God said:


> I think we agree. It's just we are wording it in different ways. The OP was talking about tiny amounts, then the post I referred to had loads. I don't think going crazy is necessary but for a 200lb individual a good 300 should probably be taken in. If you take in too little protein then you might not grow. If you take in too much then you might just add a little extra weight and put your kidneys under a bit more stress. I know which option I'd rather take if I was in doubt.
> 
> Edit: I'm sure on a cut it's a bit different but you know what I'm getting at.
> 
> I'm out!


 i agree lol



weeman said:


> yup as tated many times my prot intake is around the 1.8g per lb mark estimated on lean stage weight,i almost always start of my prep diets on slightly too much prot to account for any possible lean tissue gain at the start and then start to reel the number in when/if its needed as i get leaner and can guestimate what my stage weight is going to be more accurately


 yes thats what i do i wouldnt go over board like some ppl are saying lol, are you doing any ukbff shaow this year, iam doing the north west in 8 weeks......


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

ste247 said:


> i agree lol
> 
> yes thats what i do i wouldnt go over board like some ppl are saying lol, are you doing any ukbff shaow this year, iam doing the north west in 8 weeks......


no mate i'm sitting this year out trying to get some much needed lean tissue on before climbing back up in 2011 

You got any pics up yet mate,hows prep?


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

weeman said:


> no mate i'm sitting this year out trying to get some much needed lean tissue on before climbing back up in 2011
> 
> You got any pics up yet mate,hows prep?


 good upto now i reakon ill be ready in 6 weeks ( i hope) i had to start dieting 8 weeks early as the show was brought forward 8 weeks due to the venue having work done to it, if i dont do well then i wont do any more untill 2011 myself, i took some pics in the gym to day but they turned out rubbish the camera is crap on my blackberry plus i was flat as hell, iam having some cheat food sunday night and then ill kill shoulders on monday morn then ill take some better pics then and get them up when i look decent lol....


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## Andrikos (Sep 10, 2008)

weeman said:


> mate,at what point did ANYONE refer to protein induced thermogenesis with regards to calories in a gram of protein in this thread?
> 
> no,no one did,did they.......please stay relevant to the debate at hand instead of skewing facts and throwing confusion on the situation.


Agreed, back to relevant stuff WOOSAH


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

now now friends i think i have started a war all i am saying is i was training like demon eating 6 meals aday but for me it was not working i was putting to much fat on so i tried a diffrent way that worked for me it seems to do the trick but hey thats just me did not mean for everyone to start falling out about it chill out people


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

mate, my friend told me iam eating to much and he is gaining on 2 shakes, a tuna sarnie and a home made meal , per day. he has lost 2 stone in 8 weeks lol, he does look leaner but also so much smaller. dont be fooled, some of the guys on here have the one thing that counts EXPERIENCE, if its working for your great but dont expect it to last gd luck though


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

BRIAN FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST AND ALL THAT IS GOOD - STEP BACK FROM THE KEYBOARD.

GO WATCH TOPGEAR REPEATS ON IPLAYER, OR MIDGET SEX CLIPS OR SOMETHING

CEASE AND DESIST FROM POSTING IN THIS THREAD

TAKE COMFORT THAT YOU ARE BIGGER AND BETTER THAN THOSE WHO WOULD ARGUE AGAINST YOU!!!!

YOU CAN DO IT MAN


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

rs007 said:


> BRIAN FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST AND ALL THAT IS GOOD - STEP BACK FROM THE KEYBOARD.
> 
> GO WATCH TOPGEAR REPEATS ON IPLAYER, OR MIDGET SEX CLIPS OR SOMETHING
> 
> ...


Rams just can't stay away from this thread, it's like crack to him!

:lol:


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

T.F. said:


> Rams just can't stay away from this thread, it's like crack to him!
> 
> :lol:


I'm sat here waiting for him to blow :lol:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

T.F. said:


> Rams just can't stay away from this thread, it's like crack to him!
> 
> :lol:


Still not getting drawn on the debate

in fact, I could probably post and asnswer commpletely legibly, just form cutting and pasting previous posts :lol:


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## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

Question-if you have the option of eating lots and being buff or eating little and being skinny, which are you going to go for?


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Still not getting drawn on the debate
> 
> in fact, I could probably post and asnswer commpletely legibly, just form cutting and pasting previous posts :lol:


 considering you have nothing to say you say alot lmao


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

ste247 said:


> considering you have nothing to say you say alot lmao


Oh no, not at all bro, Ive just said it all before multiple times, one of these threads pops up every couple of weeks or so.



> Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe - Albert Einstein


And I do hate repeating myself so :lol:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, playing the devils advocate here.

Using the argument that the biggest guys eat the most protein might be true, but not necessarily the case.

The biggest guys on here also take steroids, GH, slin, and a host of other stuff.

Can't blame it all on the protein.

For what it's worth, I personally feel people put too much emphasis on protein and not on other things.

More is better to a point, and then it isn't, it would be better at this point to manipulate the other macros around for the desired effect.

Also at one point where protein is the main staple of the diet, the body will use protein as its main source of fuel, given you skip several meals I would suggest this person would go more catabolic than another that lets say ate more fats.

Just like the keto guys target more fat for fuel, same would be true for protein, and we have many pounds of protein right in our muscles.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

hackskii said:


> The biggest guys on here also take steroids, GH, slin, and a host of other stuff.


So do a scarily larger amount of the little guys, or guys who arent happy with their gains. On here and in the gym.

There is a guy in our gym, 21yo, not big at all just a little puffy.

Takes more gear than me and thats the gods honest truth (well apart from the last few weeks as I have upped mine slightly). Insulin too.

I could go on all night with more examples.

Can't blame it all on the gear :whistling:

What do all these guys ahve in common? Reluctance to believe in greater food intake as a whole, especially with protein - the only thing that can possibly build or maintain muscle tissue - not carbs, not fats - protein.

Hey - I don't care, I'm progressing even if they don't want to. Funny thing is I bet some of them are going on about how I am "all drugs", yet some of them will be easily on 2x what I am...


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Well, playing the devils advocate here.
> 
> Using the argument that the biggest guys eat the most protein might be true, but not necessarily the case.
> 
> ...


 thats what i was strying to say dont over emphasis on protien eat enough for your weight and dont eat more than you need as its a waste of time imo....


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

rs007 said:


> So do a scarily larger amount of the little guys, or guys who arent happy with their gains. On here and in the gym.
> 
> There is a guy in our gym, 21yo, not big at all just a little puffy.
> 
> ...


 he obviously eats rubbish then, he is prop one of those guy's that think 3 pro shakes a day will make him mr olympia lol


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2010)

rs007 said:


> can't.... hold... much....longer
> 
> :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:
> 
> must... not... get... involved...


HAHAHAHA :thumb:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

rs007 said:


> So do a scarily larger amount of the little guys, or guys who arent happy with their gains. On here and in the gym.
> 
> There is a guy in our gym, 21yo, not big at all just a little puffy.
> 
> ...


I know a vegetarian that takes in far less protein than probably everyone in the gym, he looks probably the best.

Genetic factors, age, drug use, diet, lifestyle all matter and control things.

I love protein myself, but to get the amounts you guys get id have to add shakes into my meals.

I would have to eat 11 chicken breasts to get the kind of protein you guys eat in a day.

There would be no room for other food.

So, using whole foods as an example I can see flaws in the you got to eat 400 grams plus of protein a day.

Sorry, I look at things more of a common sense issue, not to mention Barry Sears has done studies on athletes and the numbers you guys use is well above their numbers.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I know a vegetarian that takes in far less protein than probably everyone in the gym, he looks probably the best.
> 
> Genetic factors, age, drug use, diet, lifestyle all matter and control things.
> 
> ...


Well, simple fact is, that myself, weeman, people we have helped and countless others, once we have broken it down, NEED the type of levels we eat, or we simply dont grow. Regardless of how many carbs or fat we put in. I know, Ive tried. This is irrefutable, yet people keep telling me I am wrong :lol:

So yes, genetic factors will play a factor, you get freaks like your vegetarian guy, who jsut look good no matter what. Youll get the odd person that can't grow, no matter what.

But the broad percentile of us are approximatley the same.

Yes, there is a practicality issue, especially when "bulking" and I need to get more carbs in. Couldn't get the levels I need without drinking, but I know folks who do. It comes down to a simple choice - do you want to push it, and get beyond where you are now and keep going, or don't you. Either eat the damn food, or dont.

But don't decide you arent going to eat it, then tell everyone that no one needs the levels touted when you don't know yourself.

I don't mean that to you Hacks - you have experimented I assume - I am talking to the dedicated "no one needs more than 150g per day of protein" brigade. You can tell them because of their 14" arms :lol:


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## round 2 (Jan 14, 2010)

I always have the question in the back of my head if i would have eaten more (protein)would i have gained more.The first time round i used to get up at 2am for a protein shake just to make sure? (what is outside this buble i live in?) haha


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

rs007 said:


> Well, simple fact is, that myself, weeman, people we have helped and countless others, once we have broken it down, NEED the type of levels we eat, or we simply dont grow. Regardless of how many carbs or fat we put in. I know, Ive tried. This is irrefutable, yet people keep telling me I am wrong :lol:
> 
> So yes, genetic factors will play a factor, you get freaks like your vegetarian guy, who jsut look good no matter what. Youll get the odd person that can't grow, no matter what.
> 
> ...


Thing is, both sides are right given the same variables, neither you nor Weeman are clean, so to say this X number of protein gives me X number of gains is correct, regarding a clean athlete.

Look at the preditor animals, they eat meat, but after the kill they eat the liver.

Why is that?

Nutrients, and rightly so, that liver is hands down the must nutritious and blood ready for nutrition (not to mention un explained growth factors within the liver).

It isnt the protein, it is the edge they need to become the preditor.

No doubt preditor animals eat the most meat.

But they eat high fat too, low carb.

High protein diets with high fat tend to melt fat.

Yet endurance athletes tend to favor more carbs for fuel.

What if the carb guys had the best burst of fuel to move the most pounds in the shortest span of time?

Protein is not in the equation, fast fuel is.

What if a long distance runner tapped into burning fat stores?

Fuel would be abundant.

Protein is no factor.

Id be willing to suggest that diffrent energy expenditures yielded diffrent results within diffrent peoples lifestyles.

Eskimos probably need alot of protein and alot of fats.

Long distance runners need alot of energy given a designated time frame for endurance.

The approach is simple.

Get the desired protein to support said muscle.

Don't over feed as you may or might add unwanted pounds of weight gain.

Enter in the amount of carbs to support energy expenditure so you can push past limits that normally require hypertrophy.

Eat enough to not gain fat, yet sustain and neuroush gains.

Macros are key to this, designing a system decigned for you is everything.

Dont look at me, I have been drinking...........

I love you two ****, both weeman and RS007.

Both of you are right but both of you in my ippionion are wrong for what it is worth.

Its Friday so discount anything I say.

On a side not I lost my rat today, she was so cool.......

Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but the breaths that take our breath away....................George Carlin............

I love you guys...............

You may even be right............................but...........................lol


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Thing is, both sides are right given the same variables, neither you nor Weeman are clean, so to say this X number of protein gives me X number of gains is correct, regarding a clean athlete.
> 
> Look at the preditor animals, they eat meat, but after the kill they eat the liver.
> 
> ...


love you too you cock :wub:

nice post Scott,too drunk to be coherant now,so i guess whichever one of us gruesome twosome gets here first tomoz will discuss this genuinely interesting subject further,and prove we are right as usual:wink: :lol: :wub:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wife is so sad as losing the rat really hurt her, that rat was awesome, but like all pets, they die.

Sorry to hinder this debate, and sorry if I offended, I am just bringing the side of the coin to what I feel.

My feelings mean nothing, nor does this make any sense, just my obersivation to said muscle building to said protein requirements.........................

/you are both gay and I still love you...............


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

weeman said:


> love you too you cock :wub:
> 
> nice post Scott,too drunk to be coherant now,so i guess whichever one of us gruesome twosome gets here first tomoz will discuss this genuinely interesting subject further,and prove we are right as usual:wink: :lol: :wub:


Love you ***..........................Oh man.......

I am hammered, and I want to have a smoke (not legal)....................

Lookin fwd to your responce................

Wee and RS, I do love you guys aside from the said debate....................typing is hard...............but I am not.........lol

I need a bit of coaxing, to get hard............lol


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Wife is so sad as losing the rat really hurt her, that rat was awesome, but like all pets, they die.
> 
> Sorry to hinder this debate, and sorry if I offended, I am just bringing the side of the coin to what I feel.
> 
> ...


actually relate on the rat thing.

Today my little girl drew a picture of me,Ser,baby Fin and our old dog,weeman,she said she wanted to draw the puppy in the picture because it made her happy and she missed him.

It so tugged the heartstrings and brought back the feelings of sadness we had when we realised he was gone forever.

Getting attached is so easy,but it hurts.

Damn i sound drunk!

I am drunk.

but hey what the,just sayin it like it is


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont care who is right or wrong......................I want you two **** to know I love you both...............

I prey I am wrong.

But I prey I can see from eyes that are not mine.....................Help me...................


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Drunk too and once I smoke I will get deep....................But cant type.............lol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wife us devistated, she is holding the dead rat and crying.

Sorry, death is a part of life and I loved the rat too, but I dont feel comtfortable actually.

I would love to massage your wife weeman.........................you too if you were around when I was doing that..........


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

If we learn from death, we can grow from said death..................Not morbid, just learning.

I love my wife, I love my home.

But, life is about learning, growth, and understanding....................

I honestly want another rat.....................Not a replacement, but more for my learning to said rat...............................lol


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

hackskii said:


> I dont care who is right or wrong......................I want you two **** to know I love you both...............
> 
> I prey I am wrong.
> 
> But I prey I can see from eyes that are not mine.....................Help me...................


prey or pray,is that freudian slip,or on purpose,i think that you do prey on the possibility of being wrong in the healthy aspect of the open mindedness of being proven wrong in the turn around of a previous belief thus opining the mind a little more,your not like a lot of people,your willing to accept when things may not be what they are at first perceived to be if the alternative belief can be justified,and also willing to debate till the end until a logical answer is arrived.

i'm rambling arent i.

fook.

Rum.

wasnt my idea,blame the wife lol.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

Cue the 'i love this board' thread..


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Its cool.

Had some brew.

It's Friday.

Rat died, I did love that thing....................It taught me something about life and self.

Other than that, just trying to stay alive, making the most of things, not lettin the small stuff rule.

I have air in my lungs, that is an awesome thing.................


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Pray...........................

Never rolled the other way..........................I am a Christian.................Since 15 years of age..........

I look at all equal.

Extention of self.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sorry if I offended....................


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Pray...........................
> 
> Never rolled the other way..........................I am a Christian.................Since 15 years of age..........
> 
> ...


lol i'm messin Scott,so inebriated its unreal,first time in over a month this bad lol,i know you ment pray you stoner,i'm stoning away as i type my last post of the night too lol

spk soon :beer: (cant find a stoned smiley)


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

How many drunk bodybuilders does I take to confuse a newbie??

3, it turns out.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

weeman said:


> lol i'm messin Scott,so inebriated its unreal,first time in over a month this bad lol,i know you ment pray you stoner,i'm stoning away as i type my last post of the night too lol
> 
> spk soon :beer: (cant find a stoned smiley)


Ah mate, its all good trust me..........................lol

Friday, am healthy, all is good, it could be worse, I am appreciated big time, for all that is given me and and all that is important.

I love my friends, they love me.

Mr. Brian, you are a awesome guy.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I love you too big guy...................Loved that gimp mask actually, winger said it was nutz............lol

Gimp mask, gas mask, hell I cant even type........lol................


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, its morning and I got a hang over, gonna pound some coffee.

After my last post there was a big blowout.

The wife was holding the dead rat for hours, it made me feel not comfortable, I asked her to put the dead rat away and she kind of snapped, she then went on to say she held her dead father (she found him) for hours.

Woh, I try and keep an open mind and all but that was wierd.

She didnt cook anything, I had to scrounge up some food.

She got really upset with me when I suggested it was kind of cooky to hold a dead rat for hours, whiling away for hours.

Never saw that side of her, hell she wont even sleep with me, that kind of made me feel like the dead rat is more important than me.

Strange.

Better just let this one slide away, dont want to overturn that rock, she got very upset with me.

Anyway, I am going to have some eggs......lol.............Ya know, that is protein and fats... :lol:


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

:lol: at the stoned posts


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> i am thinking again about the protein i take now i was eating 6 meals a day having about 300 grams of protein be to be honest i am starting to think its all a big con when people say you need loads of protein i have stopped eating every 3 hours now and i just eat about 3 meals a day i dont have any carbs such as pasta and rice as i think its the devil i am only having about 100 gram of protine a day now and eat only chickhen / oats / veg / eggs / whey / tuna / pitta bread / and its working great am not putting fat on plus i am still getting bigger putting lean mussle on i feel great


Are you sure you not a talking horse? Cause they can eat loads of grass, sugar cubes etc.. etc.. yet look at the muscle on some of those race horses!! :thumbup1:


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Wow, its morning and I got a hang over, gonna pound some coffee.
> 
> After my last post there was a big blowout.
> 
> ...


 :lol: i think leaving the rock unturned was a wise move Scott,but yeah holding the dead rat is kinda weird eh:mellow:

maybe you should,y'know,play dead in bed?you never know fella you never know.......:laugh:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sadly I feel she is the type of person that wont take time now, but after it is too late she will make the time.

If something happened to me she would be devistated, too bad we cant spread this around while I am around.

The devistation no doubt will be guilt.

She is strange, a person can be killed in a movie and she wont batt an eye, but if an animal dies, she is broken up.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

hackskii said:


> Sadly I feel she is the type of person that wont take time now, but after it is too late she will make the time.
> 
> If something happened to me she would be devistated, too bad we cant spread this around while I am around.
> 
> ...


get a bear costume hack's,spatter some ketchup around yuo,lay in the middle of your drive way,win win situ? :thumbup1:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It is my daughter that I am more worried about, she has been crying all day.

I did take the oppertunity to talk to her about death, and how the rat taught her how to be responsible cleaning her cage, feeding her, and her being a friend to the rat.

I also told her that the rat taught me that they are smart, affectionate, and intilligent.

I have an avacado tree that bears hundreds of fruit.

I have set traps and killed 7 rats before.

I told her that the rat taught me that they are really cool and I would not kill any more rats.

My point to her was not that of loss, but helping her to learn, understand, and how to be responsible with what is given to us.

Wife seems a bit standoffish, guess she will need more time.

Maybe I can have a chat with her too?

I was sad too, but I used that experiance to help me understand life.

That rat was totally cool, she had a good personality.

Wife has poodles too and one is like 15 and I hope I am not around that day her dog dies.

I am wondering where the rat is right now, I am afraid to ask.

She has done alot of talking on the phone, when I walk near her she walks away so I cant hear her.

I find that disturbing, hope it is nothing serious like wanting to leave me.

Last time she did that she cleaned me out.

Guess now would be the best time as I will get my inheritance soon......lol


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

(ps, if you don't kill the wild rats they will keep multiplying until you are over run......wild ones carry germs and disease.....pet ones don't! Rats are GREAT pets!)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I just cant though, they look like pets to me now.


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Well, simple fact is, that myself, weeman, people we have helped and countless others, once we have broken it down, NEED the type of levels we eat, or we simply dont grow. Regardless of how many carbs or fat we put in. I know, Ive tried. This is irrefutable, yet people keep telling me I am wrong :lol:
> 
> So yes, genetic factors will play a factor, you get freaks like your vegetarian guy, who jsut look good no matter what. Youll get the odd person that can't grow, no matter what.
> 
> ...


not to be funny lad but i only have about 150 grams most days and my arms are 17 half inch not bad hey for someone who has only been lifting for about 8 weeks only twice a week plus i dont eat 6 meals aday also i dont take steds not falling out with you lad but at the end of the day everyone is diffrent


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

scouse9976 said:


> not to be funny lad but i only have about 150 grams most days and *my arms are 17 half inch not bad* hey for someone who has only been lifting for about 8 weeks only twice a week plus i dont eat 6 meals aday anymore* tell me how big are your arms plus how long have you been lifting*


*WTF *has that got to do with it?

I take it you never been on RS profile page :lol:

Big Daddys arms were 27"

Ronnie Coleman around 22" so does that make him inferior?.

Up your protein and maybe them 17" cannons will grow a bit more.


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## ste247 (Mar 18, 2008)

scouse9976 said:


> not to be funny lad but i only have about 150 grams most days and my arms are 17 half inch not bad hey for someone who has only been lifting for about 8 weeks only twice a week plus i dont eat 6 meals aday anymore tell me how big are your arms plus how long have you been lifting


 if you trained and eat more then you could have 20 in arms........my brother in law has 18 inch arms and has never been a gym in his life he is just a fat cumt


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> not to be funny lad but i only have about 150 grams most days and my arms are 17 half inch not bad hey for someone who has only been lifting for about 8 weeks only twice a week plus i dont eat 6 meals aday anymore tell me how big are your arms plus how long have you been lifting


PMSL who you calling Lad you pretentious little cvnt :lol:

If your arms are a good 17", and not wobbling like my grans, more power to you mate, well done.

If you are genuinely doing it on 150g of protein, in 8 weeks, then double power to you, you are a genetic freak - you could seriously go far and I hope you do.

Ive always stated there are genetic outliers - guys/gals that can gain on very little for any one of a million possible reasons, and guys/gals that won't no matter what.

I am more concerned in catering for the "average" person, since that is the bracket that by far the greatest number of us fall into...


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

pea head said:


> *WTF *has that got to do with it?
> 
> I take it you never been on RS profile page :lol:
> 
> ...


all am saying mate is alot of you guys on here are on steds and seem to talk down to people who are not as big as them when they have a opinion its diffrent strokes for diffrent folks do you think they would be that big without the steds i think not so in a way its just cheating not saying they dont train hard but thats just my veiw but hey i know nothing am just a newbie who knows f-ck all


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> not to be funny lad but i only have about 150 grams most days and my arms are 17 half inch not bad hey for someone who has only been lifting for about 8 weeks only twice a week plus i dont eat 6 meals aday also i dont take steds not falling out with you lad but at the end of the day everyone is diffrent


i wanna see a pic of these 'cannons'.

ffs i had near 17'' arms never lifting a weight when i stopped training for over 2 years,the number means sweet fuk all bud.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

lol this is good:lol:


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Listen Lad !!

or RS whatever your name is,it doesnt look like you train your arms much judging by your avvy,oh am while im at it those tattoos are well naff


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

rs007 said:


> PMSL who you calling Lad you pretentious little cvnt :lol:
> 
> If your arms are a good 17", and not wobbling like my grans, more power to you mate, well done.
> 
> ...


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> all am saying mate is alot of you guys on here are on steds and seem to talk down to people who are not as big as them when they have a opinion its diffrent strokes for diffrent folks do you think they would be that big without the steds i think not so in a way its just cheating not saying they dont train hard but thats just my veiw but hey i know nothing am just a newbie who knows f-ck all


you sound like you have a little chip on your shoulder mate,you should prob get over that or your popularity here will be legendary at this rate.

No one talks down to anyone on here unless they merit it in the first place,and its got nothing to do with who takes gear or not,there are plenty well respected nattys on here with phenomenal physiques.


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## Rob68 (Sep 16, 2008)

Oh no.....  ....blue touch paper well and truely lit.....:laugh:


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

scouse9976 said:


> all am saying mate is alot of *you guys on here are on steds *and seem to talk down to people who are not as big as them when they have a opinion its diffrent strokes for diffrent folks do you think they would be that big without the steds i think not so in a way *its just cheating* not saying they dont train hard but thats just my veiw but hey *i know nothing* am just* a newbie who knows f-ck all*


Say no more :lol: :lol:

Mate i have seen guys on "steds" for years who look [email protected],and i mean [email protected] what is there excuse...no protein ? :confused1:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> all am saying mate is alot of you guys on here are on steds and seem to talk down to people who are not as big as them when they have a opinion its diffrent strokes for diffrent folks do you think they would be that big without the steds i think not so in a way its just cheating not saying they dont train hard but thats just my veiw but hey i know nothing am just a newbie who knows f-ck all


Bull**** - dont turn this into a steroid argument, that has got nowt to do with it.

And if you are natural, truly on 150g a day of protein, and have 17" non-faticep'd arms - and the rest of the physique to match (cos I have huge calfs and have barely ever even trained them) AND not 6 foot 4, then honestly mate, I hope you put those genetics to good use.

Would love to see pics if you comply with the above, not because I doubt you, but because you will be fvcking impressive/inspiring.

As for us all being different, thats not specifically true - we are all largley the same mate. MOST of us react by and large the same.

But you get the odd outliers that are just crazy for whatever reason, you may be one of them - trust me mate, I can assure you MOST people are NOT like you claim to be...


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

apologies on the lad thing, thought you were coming the cvnt - didn't realise it was a scouse thing :confused1: my bad.

Now get some pics up


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

pea head said:


> Listen Lad !!
> 
> or RS whatever your name is,it doesnt look like you train your arms much judging by your avvy,oh am while im at it those tattoos are well naff  [/QUO
> 
> i have seen his pics


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## tjwilkie (Feb 21, 2009)

scouse9976 said:


> all am saying mate is alot of you guys on here are on steds and seem to talk down to people who are not as big as them when they have a opinion its diffrent strokes for diffrent folks do you think they would be that big without the steds i think not so in a way its just cheating not saying they dont train hard but thats just my veiw but hey i know nothing *am just a newbie who knows f-ck all*


 :whistling: :whistling: :whistling:


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Bull**** - dont turn this into a steroid argument, that has got nowt to do with it.
> 
> And if you are natural, truly on 150g a day of protein, and have 17" non-faticep'd arms - and the rest of the physique to match (cos I have huge calfs and have barely ever even trained them) AND not 6 foot 4, then honestly mate, I hope you put those genetics to good use.
> 
> ...


i will get a camera and put them up i have always had wide shoulders and decent arms from my army days though boxing and stuff


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

This thread could have been answered in one work. Yes.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> i will get a camera and put them up i have always had wide shoulders and decent arms from my army days though boxing and stuff


Genuinely look forward to seeing them - what height/wieght you at just now?


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## baz1983 (Aug 29, 2009)

looking forward to pic too!!!!!!!


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## Rob68 (Sep 16, 2008)

scouse9976 said:


> Judging by his avvy i reckon he plays a mean guitar tho...  ..... :lol:


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## freeline (Dec 12, 2009)

scouse9976 said:


> i will get a camera and put them up i have always had wide shoulders and decent arms from my army days though boxing and stuff


interested in the pics too.. and you can leave your hat on.


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## scouse9976 (Dec 8, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Genuinely look forward to seeing them - what height/wieght you at just now?


5 foot 10 i am weighing about 14 stone now mate i was 15 half but lost the fat well most of it lol


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## freeline (Dec 12, 2009)

scouse9976 said:


> quote and avatar fail kudos:cool:


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

freeline said:


> Doh,i know who Rams is :lol: :lol:
> 
> You get em :whistling:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

pea head said:


> Doh,i know who Rams is :lol: :lol:


Ahhhhhh but theres the thing, do you? I could be a complete internet fabrication using some Scottish cnts pics I found off his bebo, I could in fact actually be a 34 stone pre op transexual from surrey called Roxanne with a couple of bed sores and a penchant for coloured - sorry - black men... you just never do know


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Ahhhhhh but theres the thing, do you? I could be a complete internet fabrication using some Scottish cnts pics I found off his bebo, I could in fact actually be a 34 stone pre op transexual from surrey called Roxanne with a couple of bed sores and a penchant for coloured - sorry - black men... you just never do know


Oh you mean they are getting you mixed up with Weeman ? :lol: :lol:


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Ahhhhhh but theres the thing, do you? I could be a complete internet fabrication using some Scottish cnts pics I found off his bebo, I could in fact actually be a 34 stone pre op transexual from surrey called Roxanne with a couple of bed sores and a penchant for coloured - sorry - black men... you just never do know


Hey, don't talk about bebo in that tone!

Between the ages of 13 and 15 that site got me 90% of my pvssy.

Good site.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

RJ68 said:


> a three string one too i heard:rockon:
> 
> ffs always picking on the gigga:cursing: :lol:


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

scouse9976 said:


> not to be funny lad but i only have about 150 grams most days and my arms are 17 half inch not bad hey for someone who has only been lifting for about 8 weeks only twice a week plus i dont eat 6 meals aday also i dont take steds not falling out with you lad but at the end of the day everyone is diffrent


Trained 8 weeks only and have 17inch arms. What's your bodyfat?


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