# Do you count incomplete proteins towards you daily macros?



## Chunkee (Sep 1, 2012)

Who does and doesn't?

I do personally, always have, would struggle to hit my target without them i rekon.

Does an incomplete protein become whole when eaten with a complete source?


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I only count protein from dairy or meat personally.


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Combining certain incomplete proteins can make a full spectrum protein source


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

I only ever count whole protein from meat and dairy as well and the rest is just a bonus


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

xpower said:


> Combining certain incomplete proteins can make a full spectrum protein source


This

For example when drinking egg whites I add whey and cashew butter


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## wezo (Jun 12, 2009)

never count protein from carbs or fat just meat an dairy produts..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i don't count any macro's that i do not eat the food type for for example i do not count the pro/Carbs in Peanut butter as i eat that for fats

i don't count the Pro/Fats in Oats as i eat that for Carbs

i don't count Fats/Carbs in extra lean mince as i eat that for Protein

there are a few exceptions Salmon, Whole eggs are two that i count both Pro/Fats.....

i don't diet nor design diets using calories i do them using Macro's....


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## Chunkee (Sep 1, 2012)

So, if say for instance i eat 4 slices of burgen bread (28g protein) with chicken and a glass of milk does that then make the incomplete source complete?

Confused on this... Don't want to be underating my daily protein requirements either since i'm gettin at least 50g per day from non complete sources.


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## Slimjim83 (Aug 15, 2012)

Chunkee said:


> So, if say for instance i eat 4 slices of burgen bread (28g protein) with chicken and a glass of milk does that then make the incomplete source complete?
> 
> Confused on this... Don't want to be underating my daily protein requirements either since i'm gettin at least 50g per day from non complete sources.


They all count towards your daily allowance! Protein from gluten ( ie bread) is poorly absorbed but like you say if you combine complete protein sources with them like milk and eggs then you've covered your bases. It's the same as eating beans on toast. It is a complete protein source as the ones lacking in each are high in the other. There's a few others that are the same. The thing you should take away from this is that make ALL of your meals balanced and count it all at the end of the day. It's always total calories that are going to make or break your diet not worrying about 8 meals a day or 46.5% carbs or 32.0033% protein etc.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Slimjim83 said:


> They all count towards your daily allowance! Protein from gluten ( ie bread) is poorly absorbed but like you say if you combine complete protein sources with them like milk and eggs then you've covered your bases. It's the same as eating beans on toast. It is a complete protein source as the ones lacking in each are high in the other. There's a few others that are the same. The thing you should take away from this is that make ALL of your meals balanced and count it all at the end of the day. It's always total calories that are going to make or break your diet not worrying about 8 meals a day or 46.5% carbs or 32.0033% protein etc.


i disagree my progress since 2010 when i stopped counting calories and dieted using macro's per meal speaks volumes for the fact it works and works very well.....


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

So if my total protein is 450g per day but 100g are from carb and fat foods, am only eating 350g?

Wat about amino acids, I take 70g of aminos on training days, does this count towards protein? (I don't normally count them in myself)


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> i disagree my progress since 2010 when i stopped counting calories and dieted using macro's per meal speaks volumes for the fact it works and works very well.....


Can you elaborate a bit on how you would go about switching to a macro per meal based diet?


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2013)

RowRow said:


> Can you elaborate a bit on how you would go about switching to a macro per meal based diet?


 I would be interested to know this too.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

RowRow said:


> Can you elaborate a bit on how you would go about switching to a macro per meal based diet?


not sure i can explain this to be fair as it is something i work out from working with a client/myself (i dont mean i won't explain it i mean it is not a simple do this and that sort of thing)

it is all down to your numbers for your metabolism be that dieting or bulking.....

for example at the moment i am dieting/recomping after having shingles so my aim is to build muscle whilst on cycle and get leaner (was sort of primed due to the illness)

so my daily food on a typical training day is

Meal 1 - 50g P/16g F

Meal 2 - 50g P/40g C/10g F

Meal 3 - 50g P/40g C/10g F

Meal 4 - 50g P/20g C/10g F

Meal 5 - 50g P/40g C

Meal 6 - 50g P/20g F

i repeat meal 6 if i am awake late, so if i have eaten every 2 hours through the day and i am working late and hungry i will repeat meal 6 once or even twice in that day.....

non training days the Macro's are split differently......


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> not sure i can explain this to be fair as it is something i work out from working with a client/myself (i dont mean i won't explain it i mean it is not a simple do this and that sort of thing)
> 
> it is all down to your numbers for your metabolism be that dieting or bulking.....
> 
> ...


 So rather than setting a daily calorie target and working iut how much p/f/c you need to make this up, instead you aim to hit these macro targets per meal? And so your bulking macro targets may be higher carbs too?

Or have I just totally misunderstood?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

RS86 said:


> So rather than setting a daily calorie target and working iut how much p/f/c you need to make this up, instead you aim to hit these macro targets per meal? And so your bulking macro targets may be higher carbs too?
> 
> Or have I just totally misunderstood?


no that is pretty much it, as i mentioned i am recomping/dieting after i was hit with the shingles in feb, i dropped 14lbs i went from 216 - 204lbs in 5 days and my composition was worse last weekend i hit 216lbs but much leaner.....

i am going on holiday in June so will continue until then when i am back i will bulk and i will raise the Fat/Carb macro's gradually per meal so raise it a little then until i stop gaining for 2 weeks then raise it again this helps me gain but hold little fat....


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> no that is pretty much it, as i mentioned i am recomping/dieting after i was hit with the shingles in feb, i dropped 14lbs i went from 216 - 204lbs in 5 days and my composition was worse last weekend i hit 216lbs but much leaner.....
> 
> i am going on holiday in June so will continue until then when i am back i will bulk and i will raise the Fat/Carb macro's gradually per meal so raise it a little then until i stop gaining for 2 weeks then raise it again this helps me gain but hold little fat....


 Cool. So I guess the complicated part is working out the macros to suit different individuals. Bit of trial and error. Interested in giving this a go rather than sitting working out calories for everything.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> i don't count any macro's that i do not eat the food type for for example i do not count the pro/Carbs in Peanut butter as i eat that for fats
> 
> i don't count the Pro/Fats in Oats as i eat that for Carbs
> 
> ...


without sounding dumb, you do count all the calories right?


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> without sounding dumb, you do count all the calories right?


I think the whole point is that he doesn't count calories at all! Thats my take from it anyway because if he hits his macros then the cals are irrelevant, are they not?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> without sounding dumb, you do count all the calories right?


i don't count calories, i don't know what amount of calories i am consuming per day and i do not care but i know what macro's i am eating, when i am eating them and how they are split.....



RS86 said:


> Cool. So I guess the complicated part is working out the macros to suit different individuals. Bit of trial and error. Interested in giving this a go rather than sitting working out calories for everything.


it is a trial and error type of system obviously you can make an educated guess if you know the macro amounts per day then it is how they are split, for example i always have a P/F meal as my meal 1 and 6 for me this suits better.....



Galaxy said:


> I think the whole point is that he doesn't count calories at all! Thats my take from it anyway because if he hits his macros then the cals are irrelevant, are they not?


exactly


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

How is that any different? you are focussing on counting macros so your basically counting calories anyway?

Is it mainly just you don't have a set calorie/macro daily intake?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

It's just different ways of thinking about it - in order to achieve a sub average body fat level you have to be more organized than when dropping from an above average body fat level to an average level, and consistency with diet especially becomes very important. Some people measure their food in number of kcals from each macro, others just look at g's of each macro and don't think about the kcals.

Either way you can adjust methodically, either by measuring the number of grams of food to add or remove, or by thinking of it in number of kcals worth of fats, carbs or protein to add or remove.

No right or wrong way here, just what you get on best with. The hard part is establishing what's gonna work best for you in the first place in respect of the type of diet you need to do, that takes trial and often a lot of error to find.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> i don't count calories, i don't know what amount of calories i am consuming per day and i do not care but i know what macro's i am eating, when i am eating them and how they are split.....
> 
> it is a trial and error type of system obviously you can make an educated guess if you know the macro amounts per day then it is how they are split, for example i always have a P/F meal as my meal 1 and 6 for me this suits better.....
> 
> exactly


Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. Is this what you have always done or have you tried different types of macro counting. Again, not being pedantic I just like clarity in my own head, this is for both bulking AND cutting. It seems a little odd to do for cutting, but if it works, well........ it works!

I typically just count protein and calories. Mainly because I eat a lot of beef and meat with the skin on so i get good fat macros. Also having an italian bird we have EVOO as standard.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. Is this what you have always done or have you tried different types of macro counting. Again, not being pedantic I just like clarity in my own head, this is for both bulking AND cutting. It seems a little odd to do for cutting, but if it works, well........ it works!
> 
> I typically just count protein and calories. Mainly because I eat a lot of beef and meat with the skin on so i get good fat macros. Also having an italian bird we have EVOO as standard.


why is it odd for cutting?

i have used many different approaches over the 21yrs i have been competing most worked pretty well, i have been doing this since 2010 and certainly been the best approach so far....

i use it both in the off season like in 2011 when i reached my heaviest ever (on the least gear) when i reached 240lbs and i used the whole of 2012 when i prepped and competed for 45 weeks and by all accounts presented the best physique to date....

to be fair i am a little confused to how you can only count your protein but yet know what calories you are eating? if you do not know the carbs and fats how can you work out the calories?? and how is the skin on meat good fats???


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> why is it odd for cutting?
> 
> i have used many different approaches over the 21yrs i have been competing most worked pretty well, i have been doing this since 2010 and certainly been the best approach so far....
> 
> ...


I believed that calories was the most important factor for weight loss or indeed any weight change.. Energy balance et all. And the macros are the factor that are responsible for the body composition. Not saying your approach is wrong or questionable. I like what you say about nutrition and am keen to learn more.

I miss-articulated my other point. I don't set targets for cho and fats. I obviously count them (Myfitnesspal is my tool of choice), but i only focus on hitting a protein and calorie target. If that makes sense?

What is wrong with animal fats. As well as filling, I've read they are great for hormonal regulation and as a natty, I have to rely on my body for test production. I appreciate they are better fats with more omegas, but I didn't think they were considered 'bad' in this modern age


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> I believed that calories was the most important factor for weight loss or indeed any weight change.. Energy balance et all. And the macros are the factor that are responsible for the body composition. Not saying your approach is wrong or questionable. I like what you say about nutrition and am keen to learn more.


thats cool there is more than one way to skin a cat my approach is just that an approach it works but other approaches work as well, i only count the macro i am eating the food for...

Oats i count Carbs not Fats and Pro

PB i count fats but not Pro/Carbs

i think to many are strung up on the 1-2g of carbs or fats in shakes etc when i used to do this i certainly did not have a better physique than i have now....



simonthepieman said:


> I miss-articulated my other point. I don't set targets for cho and fats. I obviously count them (Myfitnesspal is my tool of choice), but i only focus on hitting a protein and calorie target. If that makes sense?


that makes more sense



simonthepieman said:


> What is wrong with animal fats. As well as filling, I've read they are great for hormonal regulation and as a natty, I have to rely on my body for test production. I appreciate they are better fats with more omegas, but I didn't think they were considered 'bad' in this modern age


well they are not good that is for sure, i understand your point on saturated fats and testosterone but unless you are eating organic/grass fed beef/meat then i would question the quality of the saturated fats amongst other things........BUT if it is working then stick with it...


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

quick question.... if you eat complete proteins with incomplete ones,would the extra aminos make up

the shortfall with the other incomplete foods,or does the body digest them all seperate.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm struggling a little to follow. With the macro counting method you wouldnt actually be counting up the macros in full? Is this right? So in reality you are hitting your macro targets you will actually be consuming more of that macro than what your target was?

For example if you eat porridge you would only be using the carb macros but in reality there would be protein and fats making up a number of calories that would be part of your 'actual' P/F totals for that day but you dont include them in the macros your target? So you could hit your target 300g pritein macro but the actuality is youve ate 350g?

Is that right?


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Grains with Legumes - sample meal: lentils and rice with yellow peppers.

Nuts with Legumes - sample meal: black bean and peanut salad.

Grains with Dairy - sample meal: white cheddar and whole wheat pasta.

Dairy with Seeds - sample meal: yogurt mixed with sesame and flax seeds.

Legumes with Seeds - sample meal: spinach salad with sesame seed and almond salad dressing.


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## Chunkee (Sep 1, 2012)

mal said:


> quick question.... if you eat complete proteins with incomplete ones,would the extra aminos make up
> 
> the shortfall with the other incomplete foods,or does the body digest them all seperate.


Would like to know this myself... more so as i do count indirect sources towards my daily protein amount.

@dtlv maybe?


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

If I eat 100g of oats which contains 11g protein, or a slice of thick brown bread (50g) contains 5g protein, then ill count that. It's still protein at the end of the day. Surely your body still makes use of what ever amino acids are in the foods.

I count every macro from every bit of food I eat.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> What is wrong with animal fats. As well as filling, I've read they are great for hormonal regulation and as a natty, I have to rely on my body for test production. I appreciate they are better fats with more omegas, but I didn't think they were considered 'bad' in this modern age


There's nothing wrong with animal fats, simply most fats from plants are nutritionally superior - sat fats from animal sources are generally long chain which raise ldl, lower hdl and interfere with insulin signalling when dosed highly... they do help testosterone synthesis, but monounsaturated fats from plants are used for synthesis of testosterone too with equal efficiency, and without the ldl raising property or the negative effect upon insulin sensitivity. Is a myth you need any sat fat at all for optimum testosterone synthesis - you simply need either sat fats or mono fats (or a combo) to make up around 8-10% of your energy intake.

Best thing about animal fats is they generally taste nice, and unless cutting hard I'm always happy to include some - at the tough end of a cut though it seems to work best to cut the long chain sat fats as well as sugars though, definitely seems to help compared to not doing so.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dtlv said:


> There's nothing wrong with animal fats, simply most fats from plants are nutritionally superior - sat fats from animal sources are generally long chain which raise ldl, lower hdl and interfere with insulin signalling when dosed highly... they do help testosterone synthesis, but monounsaturated fats from plants are used for synthesis of testosterone too with equal efficiency, and without the ldl raising property or the negative effect upon insulin sensitivity. Is a myth you need any sat fat at all for optimum testosterone synthesis - you simply need either sat fats or mono fats (or a combo) to make up around 8-10% of your energy intake.
> 
> Best thing about animal fats is they generally taste nice, and unless cutting hard I'm always happy to include some - at the tough end of a cut though it seems to work best to cut the long chain sat fats as well as sugars though, definitely seems to help compared to not doing so.


Repped.

Thats some great information I didn't know.

Out of interest. How do fats from eggs (assume food quality free range) compare to animal fats?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Repped.
> 
> Thats some great information I didn't know.
> 
> Out of interest. How do fats from eggs (assume food quality free range) compare to animal fats?


I personally don't have a problem with the fats in egg yolks, not in normal amounts any way - according to the nutritional breakdowns of hens eggs the fats in the yolk are usually just under 50% mono fats, around 30% PUFA's, and 20% sat fats. Since eggs only contain about 4g of fats each, that's about 1g of sat fat per egg. The cholesterol people worry about is an unfounded stress and only should be thought of as a thing to deliberately exclude for people with high ldl levels (which is usually either down to the effects of hormone influencing drugs or genetics).

If looking to cut dietary fat in general egg yolks are an easy source of fat to remove, so i understand why people do it to leave a 'pure' protein of just egg white - only problem here is that egg white protein alone is not as complete or bioavailable as whole egg protein including proteins from the yolk. If you are gonna cut egg yolks, I would suggest keeping one yolk for every three-four eggs personally (or to cook the whites as that makes the protein more bioavailable).

The only negative against eggs IMO is that the proteins in them are fairly allergenic (similar to wheat, dairy or shellfish) and when eaten regularly in large amounts can cause issues for those susceptible... I think the main fear of eggs stems back to the old lipid hypothesis idea of the seventies that sat fats are the main cause of heart disease and that dietary cholesterol directly influences ldl cholesterol and so eating eggs which contain both is bad, and while those myths have largely been busted, the advice at the time to avoid eggs because of the sat fats and cholesterol still lingers in the public consciousness (and is still perpetuated by a few diet experts who seem to have not read any nutritional science since the seventies).

If there is anything bad about eggs, it's certainly not for the usual reasons given IMO.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dtlv said:


> I personally don't have a problem with the fats in egg yolks, not in normal amounts any way - according to the nutritional breakdowns of hens eggs the fats in the yolk are usually just under 50% mono fats, around 30% PUFA's, and 20% sat fats. Since eggs only contain about 4g of fats each, that's about 1g of sat fat per egg. The cholesterol people worry about is an unfounded stress and only should be thought of as a thing to deliberately exclude for people with high ldl levels (which is usually either down to the effects of hormone influencing drugs or genetics).
> 
> If looking to cut dietary fat in general egg yolks are an easy source of fat to remove, so i understand why people do it to leave a 'pure' protein of just egg white - only problem here is that egg white protein alone is not as complete or bioavailable as whole egg protein including proteins from the yolk. If you are gonna cut egg yolks, I would suggest keeping one yolk for every three-four eggs personally (or to cook the whites as that makes the protein more bioavailable).
> 
> ...


I think people who don't eat yolks should be fed to the pigs


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> I think people who don't eat yolks should be fed to the pigs


The corpses of overly fussy eaters probably aren't that nutritious anyway - the pigs would probably turn up their snouts in disgust and go eat something else. :lol:


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## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> i don't count calories, i don't know what amount of calories i am consuming per day and i do not care but i know what macro's i am eating, when i am eating them and how they are split.....
> 
> it is a trial and error type of system obviously you can make an educated guess if you know the macro amounts per day then it is how they are split, for example i always have a P/F meal as my meal 1 and 6 for me this suits better.....
> 
> exactly


Paul...

Whats the reasons you have p/f for meal 1 and 6 specifically..

Do you use mainly pro and carbs for meal 2-5 then?

From that im guessing you don't train first or last thing, probably mid afternoon/early evening?

Thanks


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## Slimjim83 (Aug 15, 2012)

Slimjim83 said:


> They all count towards your daily allowance! Protein from gluten ( ie bread) is poorly absorbed but like you say if you combine complete protein sources with them like milk and eggs then you've covered your bases. It's the same as eating beans on toast. It is a complete protein source as the ones lacking in each are high in the other. There's a few others that are the same. The thing you should take away from this is that make ALL of your meals balanced and count it all at the end of the day. It's always total calories that are going to make or break your diet not worrying about 8 meals a day or 46.5% carbs or 32.0033% protein etc.


 that's true to a point mate, but whether you like it or not, whether its this your way or counting calories directly, it's all the same. You can't lose fat without a deficit. If you had someone on a diet and they weren't losing weight/fat. You would alter their macros yes? What your doing is essentially deducting calories. I agree with what you do though mate as I'm sure your nutrition is sound with fantastic food choices. It's just not the only way.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

UK1989 said:


> Paul...
> 
> Whats the reasons you have p/f for meal 1 and 6 specifically..
> 
> ...


In the morning it adds to fat burning (lack of insulin release, glycogen low etc) at night I just prefer a meal before bed without carbs and plenty of good fats, over the years I have found this to be very good for me and people I have worked with....


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