# Bulk Macros?



## shockmaster (Jul 9, 2015)

Hey guys just about to start a bulk but reading conflicting things online.

What are the best macronutries for a bulk on 3,000 calories?

I heard it was 40% 40% 20% PC and Fat but I've also read 50%C and 25% each for fat and protein?


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Not sure it'll matter too much.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Depends on your weight, I weigh 90kg and aim for similar cals, I have 50c, 25p, 25f this gives me approx 1g/lb of protein, a decent amount of fats and a good chunk of carbs


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Calories are the main factor to get right. Where have you got 3000 kcal from?

With calories right then sensible macros are in the region of 1g of protein per lb of body weight if natty or 1.5g/lb is assisted; 15-30% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs. But how you split calories between carbs and fat is basically down to what you prefer. It's calories that will determine weight/fat gain.

It makes far more sense to decide protein requirements based on your size rather than as a percentage of total macros.


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## shockmaster (Jul 9, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Calories are the main factor to get right. Where have you got 3000 kcal from?
> 
> With calories right then sensible macros are in the region of 1g of protein per lb of body weight if natty or 1.5g/lb is assisted; 15-30% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs. But how you split calories between carbs and fat is basically down to what you prefer. It's calories that will determine weight/fat gain.
> 
> It makes far more sense to decide protein requirements based on your size rather than as a percentage of total macros.


 My basal metabolic rate is 1,900, takes me about 2,400 to maintain so I'm going to bulk on 3,000. Correct me if this is wrong.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

shockmaster said:


> My basal metabolic rate is 1,900, takes me about 2,400 to maintain so I'm going to bulk on 3,000. Correct me if this is wrong.


 It's very likely to be wrong.

You have presumably used some sort of online calculator to come up with those numbers? The important thing to realise is that they are VERY approximate. Also, if your maintenance calories really were 2400 kcal then going to 3000 kcal would almost certainly be too much.

Ultimately you need to try some calorie intake and then adjust this depending on results. Eat more if you're gaining no weight but eat less if you're gaining too much fat. I would start on less than 3000 kcal. Do you have any idea what you currently eat?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ultrasonic said:


> Calories are the main factor to get right. Where have you got 3000 kcal from?
> 
> With calories right then sensible macros are in the region of 1g of protein per lb of body weight if natty or 1.5g/lb is assisted; 15-30% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs. But how you split calories between carbs and fat is basically down to what you prefer. It's calories that will determine weight/fat gain.
> 
> It makes far more sense to decide protein requirements based on your size rather than as a percentage of total macros.


 This ........


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

shockmaster said:


> Hey guys just about to start a bulk but reading conflicting things online.
> 
> What are the best macronutries for a bulk on 3,000 calories?
> 
> I heard it was 40% 40% 20% PC and Fat but I've also read 50%C and 25% each for fat and protein?


 Splitting macros by percentages is dumb.

Your protein requirements depend on how big you are & how hard you train - and also on your calorie intake. Surplus calories, and especially surplus carbs are protein sparing, so you need less protein on a bulk - not more. Not sure it's ever been quantified, but in practical terms it means that when you switch over to a bulk, you don't need to increase protein.

The ratio of carbs to fats is an individual thing, and there is no universal right answer. I function better on higher carbs, but high carbs foods are physically bulky, and since my maintenance figure is quite high (around 4,200), I struggle to push my carb percentage over 50% on a bulk, because it ends up being over 600g per day.

Best advice on a bulk is to work out your total calorie intake, and then work out a balanced diet based largely on wholefoods, with plenty of fruit/veg, made up of foods that you enjoy. As long as the protein is around 2g per kilo of lean bodymass - that's your bulking diet. If protein comes in above that, cut out anything that you're only eating for the sake of extra protein (whey, extra chicken breasts), but leave in anything you actually do want to eat. More protein won't hurt, but it costs money that can be better spent on cocaine & hookers fruit & veg


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Calories are the main factor to get right. Where have you got 3000 kcal from?
> 
> With calories right then sensible macros are in the region of 1g of protein per lb of body weight if natty or 1.5g/lb is assisted; 15-30% of calories from fat and the rest from carbs. B*ut how you split calories between carbs and fat is basically down to what you prefer.* It's calories that will determine weight/fat gain.
> 
> It makes far more sense to decide protein requirements based on your size rather than as a percentage of total macros.


 I can never decide on this one too. I always watch calories and protein but the carb/fat ratio I am unsure of. What's your thoughts on a high carb / low fat diet as opposed to other way round (with protein and cal remaining constant as you suggest). What should we be seeing in terms of size / strength etc I have a higher preference for carbs but its really more down to eating style and convenience than a sticking to a plan.


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## shockmaster (Jul 9, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's very likely to be wrong.
> 
> You have presumably used some sort of online calculator to come up with those numbers? The important thing to realise is that they are VERY approximate. Also, if your maintenance calories really were 2400 kcal then going to 3000 kcal would almost certainly be too much.
> 
> Ultimately you need to try some calorie intake and then adjust this depending on results. Eat more if you're gaining no weight but eat less if you're gaining too much fat. I would start on less than 3000 kcal. Do you have any idea what you currently eat?


 Yes I use my fitness pal everday which is how I know 2400 maintains my weight.

What's a more realistic bulk number then? I've ready anywhere from 500cals to 800cals extra on bulks


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

shockmaster said:


> Yes I use my fitness pal everday which is how I know 2400 maintains my weight.
> 
> What's a more realistic bulk number then? I've ready anywhere from 500cals to 800cals extra on bulks


 Ah, great, that reduces the guesswork  .

200-300 kcal extra would be closer to optimal I think. It used to be thought that eating loads of extra calories would lead to greater muscle gain, but when people have tried to test this it doesn't seem to be true*. If you're bulking for a while you will find you gradually need to increase your calorie intake to maintain weight gain, as you body adapts to the extra calories. But the thing to do is to always keep an eye on fat gain. Theoretically there would be a sweet-spot calorie intake where you could gain all the muscle you're going to but not gain fat. In practice I think this is very difficult to achieve (and would take a lot of time and effort diet planning and monitoring), so I would tend to err on the side of gaining a little fat but not too much. The longer you do this the better you'll get at doing this.

*See e.g. this study: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17461391.2011.643923


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

JohhnyC said:


> I can never decide on this one too. I always watch calories and protein but the carb/fat ratio I am unsure of. What's your thoughts on a high carb / low fat diet as opposed to other way round (with protein and cal remaining constant as you suggest). What should we be seeing in terms of size / strength etc I have a higher preference for carbs but its really more down to eating style and convenience than a sticking to a plan.


 Some people find their gym performance is better on higher carbs, for others it makes no difference. Some find too many carbs bloats them, others don't. These are the sort of factors to consider. From a body composition point of view I don't think it matters. This may well be far more detail than you want or care about, but the following might be of interest:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html/

Other factors of course are eating a broadly healthy diet and enjoying what you eat.


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## shockmaster (Jul 9, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Ah, great, that reduces the guesswork  .
> 
> 200-300 kcal extra would be closer to optimal I think. It used to be thought that eating loads of extra calories would lead to greater muscle gain, but when people have tried to test this it doesn't seem to be true*. If you're bulking for a while you will find you gradually need to increase your calorie intake to maintain weight gain, as you body adapts to the extra calories. But the thing to do is to always keep an eye on fat gain. Theoretically there would be a sweet-spot calorie intake where you could gain all the muscle you're going to but not gain fat. In practice I think this is very difficult to achieve (and would take a lot of time and effort diet planning and monitoring), so I would tend to err on the side of gaining a little fat but not too much. The longer you do this the better you'll get at doing this.
> 
> *See e.g. this study: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17461391.2011.643923


 Okay cheers mate youve been very helpful!!


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Some people find their* gym performance is better on higher carbs,* for others it makes no difference. Some find too many carbs bloats them, others don't. These are the sort of factors to consider. From a body composition point of view I don't think it matters. This may well be far more detail than you want or care about, but the following might be of interest:
> 
> http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html/
> 
> Other factors of course are eating a broadly healthy diet and enjoying what you eat.


 Thats a definite for me I'd say

Thanks for the link


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

JohhnyC said:


> I can never decide on this one too. I always watch calories and protein but the carb/fat ratio I am unsure of. What's your thoughts on a high carb / low fat diet as opposed to other way round (with protein and cal remaining constant as you suggest). What should we be seeing in terms of size / strength etc I have a higher preference for carbs but its really more down to eating style and convenience than a sticking to a plan.


 As Ultrasonic will have said, it's very much up to how you personally feel. As long as your protein & total calories are right, there will be quite a bit of flexibility.

If in doubt, try a couple of weeks with similar calories coming from fat & carb. Then try a couple of weeks with higher carb, lower fat - then try a couple of weeks the other way. Assess what's best - not just in terms of athletic performance, but how it makes you feel generally and how enjoyable it is.

Nobody here can tell you which works best, because of the three protocols, you will probably find similar numbers of people on this forum who would line up behind each one.


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## CAH_Aesthetics (Apr 17, 2016)

shockmaster said:


> Hey guys just about to start a bulk but reading conflicting things online.
> 
> What are the best macronutries for a bulk on 3,000 calories?
> 
> I heard it was 40% 40% 20% PC and Fat but I've also read 50%C and 25% each for fat and protein?


 The macros I used for my bulk at 2995 calories is 205g P, 75g F, and 375g C... Gives lots of energy and wiggle room for food


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## shockmaster (Jul 9, 2015)

Incrediblely useful and cleared a lot of things up. Thanks to all


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## shockmaster (Jul 9, 2015)

CAH_Aesthetics said:


> The macros I used for my bulk at 2995 calories is 205g P, 75g F, and 375g C... Gives lots of energy and wiggle room for food


 That's actually just about the same as the plan I'm going to try out once I'm eating 3k cals

But for now I'm taking ultrasonics advice and just eating 300 cals over maintenance taking me to 2700 for now. See how that goes. Cheers peeps


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