# Deadlifts



## TypeR (May 28, 2004)

i am really finding it hard to stop my back arching over when i deadlift!

any one have any tips on how to stop my self!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

are you tall typer? taller people struggle more

when you go to pick the barbell up, bend your legs as much as you can, this will encourage you to keep your back straight.

Im tall and find it hard not to arch my back.

I bend my legs as far as they will go and always look directly in front of me eye-level. Dont look at the floor whilst you deadlift, put pressure on your back that way.

when you go to lift the bar, drive off your legs. That should stop it??


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## Moray Muscle (Jan 10, 2005)

i am 6ft 1" and struggle i always try and fix a spot on the wall and look up during a rep,


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## TypeR (May 28, 2004)

aww i see i am 6ft 3!

thanks for your tips i am going to try some dumbell deads this week i will have a bit more movement


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

I can't see how your height should matter, everyone is in proportion to each other, bad form is the only thing to make you arch your back IMO.

I see so many people attempting a cross between SLDL's and deadlifts - I personally take about 30 secs to 'set' myself before I start the lift, done incorrectly this is probably the most dangerous lift you could attempt.


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## TypeR (May 28, 2004)

powerU said:


> I can't see how your height should matter, everyone is in proportion to each other, bad form is the only thing to make you arch your back IMO.
> 
> I see so many people attempting a cross between SLDL's and deadlifts - I personally take about 30 secs to 'set' myself before I start the lift, done incorrectly this is probably the most dangerous lift you could attempt.


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## demon (Apr 23, 2003)

powerU said:


> I can't see how your height should matter, everyone is in proportion to each other, bad form is the only thing to make you arch your back IMO.
> 
> I see so many people attempting a cross between SLDL's and deadlifts - I personally take about 30 secs to 'set' myself before I start the lift, done incorrectly this is probably the most dangerous lift you could attempt.


I take a good while before I start too.

And I really need to concentrate the whole way through.

Maybe you're trying to lift too much??


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

all about form mate...dont pay the price of sloppy form...when i sorted my form out my deads jumped up in weight and stayed injury free...touch wood!!

Bump for chris jenkins' input


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

TypeR said:


> aww i see i am 6ft 3!
> 
> thanks for your tips i am going to try some dumbell deads this week i will have a bit more movement


I am the same and I am only 5'8". I tried deadlifts and for me they suck. In my opinion they are so overated it is silly. My back ached for days. I cant seem to get the form so I dont do them. I think bent over rows are way more superior in my opinion. Dump them.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

winger said:


> I am the same and I am only 5'8". I tried deadlifts and for me they suck. In my opinion they are so overated it is silly. My back ached for days. I cant seem to get the form so I dont do them. I think bent over rows are way more superior in my opinion. Dump them.


Bad workman always blames his tools!!

Sorry Winger, Deadlifts rule.


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## TypeR (May 28, 2004)

winger said:


> I am the same and I am only 5'8". I tried deadlifts and for me they suck. In my opinion they are so overated it is silly. My back ached for days. I cant seem to get the form so I dont do them. I think bent over rows are way more superior in my opinion. Dump them.


 i have for 5 years now lol! i started doing them, and if i rember it was bad from then as well!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

wing, you dont do deads?


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## dk246 (Jun 19, 2004)

jus try to look up as high as u can!! a m8 of mine when he dead lifts hes looking directly above him


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Killerkeane said:


> wing, you dont do deads?


you gotta remember killer he's an old man and struggles to bend over that far...unless jimmy is behind him


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

powerU said:


> Bad workman always blames his tools!!
> 
> Sorry Winger, Deadlifts rule.


I can build a better, more musclular back and not even do dead lifts.



dirty barry said:


> you gotta remember killer he's super man


Thanks Dirty.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

**** down head up. thatll stopp all arching.

and i do firmly belevive that deads are the biggest baddest back movement


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Can you show me where dead lifts work the back better on this link?

Latissimus Dorsi (Back)

Bent-over barbell rows 93

One-arm dumbbell row (alternate) 91

T-bar rows 89

Lat pull-downs to front 86

Seated pulley rows 83


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

They are great for lower back but there are much better exercises for thickening your lats and widening them than deadlifts.

Deadlifts should be done with proper form.

I find that they hammer my hamstrings alot and quads too, but for me they dont feel real natural.

I should do them but I dont.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

Deadlifts are a mass builder, full stop.

Primarily they hit your Erector Spinae, hence the thickness - the discussion here isn't what works bet for lats, pullups will win every day of the week.

Pick only one exercise you can do on back day and nothing comes close to a deadlift, I'd it works every muscle in your body barring chest.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

winger, they arent listed. thats not fair!!!!!

american sites dont favour deads for some reason, but i dont know why. whether its because they are a high risk exercise and they are covering there back (scuse the pun) i dont know.

also, by squeezing you can contract (obv, lol) a specific muscle. i do this on deads sometimes. squeeze lats, and drag the bar. or hold the bar at top of lift and lift the shoulders and squeeze traps. so whether thats just summat "i" do, who knows but it works thats all i can say


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Bent over rows over dead lifts for back thickness hands down. More movement think about it.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

more movement??????????

The only thing moving on rows SHOULD be your arms as you pull the bar into your chest.

Anyway, this could go on for ever - speaking as someone who uses BOTH exercises, I would say deads are superior, done with the correct form.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i have to admit, deadlifts is the only back exercise where after 5 sets i cant walk straight.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

powerU said:


> more movement??????????
> 
> The only thing moving on rows SHOULD be your arms as you pull the bar into your chest.
> 
> Anyway, this could go on for ever - speaking as someone who uses BOTH exercises, I would say deads are superior, done with the correct form.


Superior for what? Not rear delts, middle back, or lats. It dosn't isolate enough mate.

Plus it is the wrong angle to hit it as well a bent rows.

So I guess the EMG  is wrong then?


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

Hang on a minute - this thread started off as why someones back aches after deads, I believe we all agreed it was bad form that was the cause. Now you seem to have gone on a crusade to dis-credit deadlifting just because you can't do them.

As I said earlier, on back day I do deads and rows as they both have different benefits, and I don't do deads to get any benefit from isolation as it's obviously a compound movement.

Any back routine without deadlifting incorporated is sadly lacking in my opinion, regardless of how many websites you can google to the contrary.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

powerU said:


> Now you seem to have gone on a crusade to dis-credit deadlifting just because you can't do them.


I never said that. I have done them. I choose not to do them, like I said earlier.



powerU said:


> As I said earlier, on back day I do deads and rows as they both have different benefits, and I don't do deads to get any benefit from isolation as it's obviously a compound movement..


Bent rows are a compound movement.



powerU said:


> Any back routine without deadlifting incorporated is sadly lacking in my opinion, regardless of how many websites you can google to the contrary.


Yes we all have opinions and that is all they are.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

Do you prefer bar or dumbells for rows Winger?

I find dumbells switch the emphasis higher up my back than a bar.


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

i prefer dumbells but im guessing winger prefers barbells.


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## OnePack (Jan 9, 2004)

i have to say that if you want a bent back then do sit ups, make em hard (slow, inclined and with a weight on ur chest) 4 sets of 20 then you won't be able to straighten your back for a good few days at least...and that's from experience although I wouldnt do this again, i couldn't stretch my back cos of the pain from "hardcore DOMS"!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

powerU said:


> Do you prefer bar or dumbells for rows Winger?
> 
> I find dumbells switch the emphasis higher up my back than a bar.


I actually do both. Right now I am doing bar. No straps or belts.



Truewarrior1 said:


> i prefer dumbells but im guessing winger prefers barbells.


I do prefer bar only because I can grap a little bit wider. Just at outside shoulder width. Hits the rear delts better.

Then do some db's or low cable close grip rows and your are looking good.

I always train the back and lats allot because in my opinion it is the best way to not get hurt. I see guys just benching and only working the front of their body. Makes for a big imballance and begging for a shoulder injury. Just ask hackskii.........lol.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

OUCH


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

hackskii said:


> OUCH


LOL...........................


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

looking at that EMG.

they rate tricep pushdowns as being far superior to narrow grip bench.

side raises to be better than shoulder presses

and leg extensions to be ALMOST as good as sqauts.

please tell me that cant be right?? going by this can electrical activity be linked to mass gain?


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

yay big pete - just noticed you've broke 1000 posts, well done mate, constant source of good advice.


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## GoldenArrow (Mar 30, 2004)

EMG studies are bollocks, yes.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

lol, cheers powerU. hadnt even noticed myself!!


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

big pete said:


> looking at that EMG.
> 
> they rate tricep pushdowns as being far superior to narrow grip bench.
> 
> ...


Higher EMG readings = More muscle activation which in turn = more growth. The more muscle fibres which are stimulated the better, which is why sets are taken to exhaustion, exhaustion being all of fibres activated until there are none left.

Higher EMG readings also indicated a better isolation of that muscle.

Flaws of EMG would be, electrode placement, muscle size (A larger muscle emits a bigger signal) and cross talk from other muscles. They are not bollox if performed correctly.

Remember that the EMG is just saying that the Rectus Femoris is activated almost as much in leg extension as squats, this doesn't make it as good an exercise unless the RF is the muscle you are hoping to develope. Squats are superior in that they activate a lot of other muscles aswell, abs, hams, glutes, erector spinae etc and raise test and GH levels. Leg extensions can't possibly compare to that no. The EMG readings are very helpful if you are trying to isolate a particular muscle, useful especially for large ones such as pec major or lat.

HTH

SD


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

SportDr said:


> useful especially for large ones such as pec major or lat.
> 
> HTH
> 
> SD


Oh read it and weap..............lol. So I guess we are back to bent over rows.............lol......ha ha ha ha ha


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

you just like bending over Winger!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

powerU said:


> you just like bending over Winger!


  funny Power

SportsDr, great post. :beer:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

powerU said:


> you just like bending over Winger!


Only with weight!


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Your all wrong,lmao

Pullups to your lower pec line will build the best back(try em an see)

As for deads could for building lower/spinal errectors and traps

Bent over rows really depends on were you pull the bar to

waist level lower lats

Lower pec line upper middle back

Or then again theres using a reverse grip which alters the movement again

Then you could do em on a smith machine(ian harrison fav)and stand a little straighter and this targets the back differently again

IMO the draw back with deads is that they can build a big butt and thicken the waist from over use.

Just my two pence worth.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Spot on mate.


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## Omega (Mar 27, 2005)

winger said:


> Superior for what? Not rear delts, middle back, or lats. It dosn't isolate enough mate.
> 
> Plus it is the wrong angle to hit it as well a bent rows.
> 
> So I guess the EMG is wrong then?


Why are you trying to isolate a muscle using a compound lift? In addition, EMG readouts mesure one out of literaly hundereds of factors and outputs for any given input. I.e. They mean nothing.


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## Omega (Mar 27, 2005)

SportDr said:


> Higher EMG readings = More muscle activation which in turn = more growth. The more muscle fibres which are stimulated the better, which is why sets are taken to exhaustion, exhaustion being all of fibres activated until there are none left.


Er... No.

Higher EMG reading could mean anything. Everything in your entire body is controled by the nervous system. Having an itch on your skin can give a higher EMG readout. EMG systems are not sensitive enough to isoltate the source of the signal or its inteneded recipient.



> Higher EMG readings also indicated a better isolation of that muscle.


Nonsense. EMG reading fluctuated massively during studies on muscles that were artifically stimulated with a given level of rate coding. Search pubmed for the ref's.



> Flaws of EMG would be, electrode placement, muscle size (A larger muscle emits a bigger signal) and cross talk from other muscles. They are not bollox if performed correctly.


Your traps are notorious for stealing signals, as are the glutes and jus about ever other major muscle in the body. Flaws in EMG is using it in the first place. Were this not the case, why bother with compounds at all?

In addition, the highest EMG readout to date ina study ofmore than 10 people gave pressups as the sinlge best *ahem* isolation exercise for pectorals.... How many of you EMG zealots use weighted pressups in your rotuien IN PLACE OF dips, benching, flyes etc etc?



> Remember that the EMG is just saying that the Rectus Femoris is activated almost as much in leg extension as squats, this doesn't make it as good an exercise unless the RF is the muscle you are hoping to develope. Squats are superior in that they activate a lot of other muscles aswell, abs, hams, glutes, erector spinae etc and raise test and GH levels. Leg extensions can't possibly compare to that no. The EMG readings are very helpful if you are trying to isolate a particular muscle, useful especially for large ones such as pec major or lat.


Squats are superior becuase hypertrophy is proportionate to load. Sheer weight has NO substitute.

Design a routine with EMG in mind and you get something along the lines of a FLEX routine.

I will leave you with this quote form Mel Siff:

"It takes at least 12 machines to rival the effectivness of the clean and press."


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## Omega (Mar 27, 2005)

I would like to add that unless they state what %age of the persons 1RM they used in these tests they are as good as useless.


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/home.htm

A link to a guide of proper form, the guys head is always up even at the start of the lift, concentrate on keeping your knees bent and your back arched upwards


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

i believe this was about helping someone improve deads,lol.

As has been said before take your time to set yourself, keep the back straight, keep the head up and focused, but what about lowering the weight until your form gets better or the pain goes, then move on from there, good luck mate.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Good Post Omega and welcome to the board.

Jock, that guy is strong but I think he needs to bend his legs a bit more and use more legs and less back. That 405 on the bar looks light.

I started doing deads about 5 weeks ago.

I just add only 10 lbs a week.

It is easier now than 5 weeks ago even with 50 more lbs on the bar.

Im going to stay the course and see when I peak.


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## Jock (Apr 8, 2003)

you're right Hacks he definitley bend his knees a bit more but generally I think his form is good.

I see so many guys trashing their backs with awful deadlift form...it makes me wince sometimes!!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Jock said:


> you're right Hacks he definitley bend his knees a bit more but generally I think his form is good.


Yea I think his form is perfect. It does look real easy for that guy. Check out the shoes, or should I say slippers. No belt eather. Good link Jock. Click here  if you havn't seen the video.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

deadlifts aren't just a lat exercise guys and that must be remembered, if performed correctly, you will work:

your legs, glutes, lower back, lats and traps now that's a lot of ground covered with one exercise.

Now that doesn't mean it's the best exercise for all those body parts just that it will involve them


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh, not to mention blood test levels raise doing deadlifts, and that is always a good thing.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

my form is "spot on" some guys have told me, although they say when im lowering the weight i tend to collapse into it slightly. is that because i am maybe straightening my knees too much on the way up?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Biker said:


> deadlifts aren't just a lat exercise guys and that must be remembered, if performed correctly, you will work:
> 
> your legs, glutes, lower back, lats and traps now that's a lot of ground covered with one exercise.
> 
> Now that doesn't mean it's the best exercise for all those body parts just that it will involve them


Nice post Biker. Spot on.


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