# Advice on cutting needed



## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

*I started cutting in January and so far its going well. I did a bulk over the winter and hit my target of 16st. *

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I am now planning to cut down to 13st to try and get that lean physique. I am currently eating around 1400 calories(very low carb and very clean 6 days a week) a day which is around 500 deficit. *

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I do have a cheat day on Sundays where I indulge on all the bad things I have been craving all week usually biscuits, crisps and juice. So far I have list around 10pounds since January which I believe is acceptable after doing the insanity workout, I am now going to head back to the gym and lift heavy as I believe I have now lost enough fat via cardio I need to loose the rest by upping metabolism by hitting the gym hard. *

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So my question to you guys is: *

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1. is a cheat day okay? *

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2. is my calorie intake okay on cut(im5ft 11) *

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3. Any gym excurse recommendations to help get that lean physique. Thanks*


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

1400 calories for 16st?You off your head?


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

I think you have misread my post. 1400 calories is what im eating on my cutting diet. My current weight today is 14st 4


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

donovan2123 said:


> I think you have misread my post. 1400 calories is what im eating on my cutting diet. My current weight today is 14st 4


he didnt misread, 1400 is way to low to be healthy, you will end up smaller than before the bulk muscle wise. if 1900 is your BMR at 16 stone when you started cutting going from the 1400kcal current diet what % bf are you?


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Ok i may have not been clear. 1400/1500cal is based on my current weight of 14.4.

At 16st I lost a good deal of weight almost immediately after I finished a creatine course.

My body fat probably stands at around 20% I would say.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

I believe my bmr is 1919 calories a day.

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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

1400 isnt good for any weight, cutting isnt done by just eating nothing, cutting needs thinking about and looking inot or you will damage yourself by doing it.

20% bf at around 202 LB would turn out to be about 2100 brm, adding in the training it goes up to use of around 2600-700 a day i would say, so you wil be 1000 plus below what your body needs, and below what basic funtions need, that isnt gonna burn off fat, its gonna shrink your entire body. you need to up the calories and read up on cutting diets that make your body drop fat and retain muscle. look at timed carbs and keto as my personal favorites.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks for your advice. Guess I will rethink my diet. Baring in mind I sit at a desk all day(work in IT) is the above still viable?

My protein intake is pretty good at around 180g and this is where most of the protein goes.

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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Also would i still be allowed my cheat day

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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

So reading up on keto is basically what I'm doing obviously my calories are to low.

So if I aim for for say 2200 calories all from good fats and protein 5 days a week no carbs. With Saturday and Sunday being carb overload. Do the carbs need to be from good low GI foods or does this not matter.

I'm planning to train 5 days a week with weekends off.

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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

To get into ketosis you should be having <25 carbs I think so no you don't overload in the weekend, when you get into a ketosis state I think you can have a refeed every now and again, I don't know much about it personally I do:

Find out tdee and take 10-15% of it and start your cals on that then:

Protein 0.8 g of protein per lb of bw

0.4 g of fat per lb of bw

And the rest of the cals fill with carbs


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> I believe my bmr is 1919 calories a day.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


You want a deficit UNDER your TDEE... NOT under your BMR! Your BMR is what you need a day to survive basically and to stop your body going into starvation mode.


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> *I started cutting in January and so far its going well. I did a bulk over the winter and hit my target of 16st. *
> 
> *
> *
> ...


im 82kg and eating 1800 cals losing 1lb a week

cheat day is ok its called "carb cycling" 

cardio , cardio, cardio and more cardio

and probably some test-e / winnie / var (any or all 3) to maintain muscle mass


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

Josh Heslop said:


> 1400 isnt good for any weight, cutting isnt done by just eating nothing, cutting needs thinking about and looking inot or you will damage yourself by doing it.
> 
> 20% bf at around 202 LB would turn out to be about 2100 brm, adding in the training it goes up to use of around 2600-700 a day i would say, so you wil be 1000 plus below what your body needs, and below what basic funtions need, that isnt gonna burn off fat, its gonna shrink your entire body. you need to up the calories and read up on cutting diets that make your body drop fat and retain muscle. look at timed carbs and keto as my personal favorites.


+1 for keto diet


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> So reading up on keto is basically what I'm doing obviously my calories are to low.
> 
> So if I aim for for say 2200 calories all from good fats and protein 5 days a week no carbs. With Saturday and Sunday being carb overload. Do the carbs need to be from good low GI foods or does this not matter.
> 
> ...


my carb up day usually consists of pizza, cheeseburgers and creme eggs lol


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

This is where I have been going wrong. Can I have some suggestions to up my calories with out carbs.

Currently I have 3 shakes a day myprotein impact whey (2 scoops a shake)

Homemade soup twice a day made with a lots and lots of meat and vegetables

Grilled Chicken breast.

3-5 cups of green tea

Zinc and magnesium tablets at night.

That's currently what I eat not including cheat days where I go in. .......


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Can't eat peanuts.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Don't like bananas


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## danefox (Oct 18, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> Also would i still be allowed my cheat day
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


A cheat day is fine, just be cautious. If you are eating everything you have been craving during the week on your cheat day, you could very easily surpass the calories you have cut out during the other 6 days. Eat waht you have been craving, but don't eat a lot of any of it. Just enough to curb your cravings, without adding in too many calories. Good luck with the cut.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

This is how I currently look at 14.4


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> This is where I have been going wrong. Can I have some suggestions to up my calories with out carbs.
> 
> Currently I have 3 shakes a day myprotein impact whey (2 scoops a shake)
> 
> ...


eggs eggs eggs and more eggs until your sick of them (like me!)

theres a list of things you can have here:

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/low-carb-food-list.html


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

if you cant have peanuts, can you have almond or cashew butter in your shakes? 1 tablespoon would up your cals


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm allergic bud


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Right from next week I'm going to start keto. I have worked our my macros and will keep a log as well as progression pictures. From the picture above what would y guys say my body fat is?


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Any ideas


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## B-rad (Aug 18, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> Any ideas


look about 20% could be more, maybe someone elses opinion may help


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> Any ideas


18-19% is my guess, i looked roughly similar when i started my cut

get some bodyfat calipers off amazon they cost £2 and are very good for the price 

you will love keto ive so far lost 6% off my belly in 3 weeks 

make sure you do lots of cardio first thing in the morning before you eat, i do 30 mins as soon as im out of bed


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> Right from next week I'm going to start keto. I have worked our my macros and will keep a log as well as progression pictures. From the picture above what would y guys say my body fat is?


Mid to high 20%.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

cplmadison said:


> 18-19% is my guess, i looked roughly similar when i started my cut
> 
> get some bodyfat calipers off amazon they cost £2 and are very good for the price
> 
> ...


Are you saying you have lost 6% BF from your stomach in 3 weeks?


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

donovan2123 said:


> Right from next week I'm going to start keto. I have worked our my macros and will keep a log as well as progression pictures. From the picture above what would y guys say my body fat is?


also measure your chest, waist, bicep, quads and calf in cm/inches and keep a log of these. It will help because you might gain a lb here or there in muscle, the measurements will reassure you its not fat and you will see where any weight has gone


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> Are you saying you have lost 6% BF from your stomach in 3 weeks?


sure did mate 

i started 19% bf but in fairness my belly was 26% and underneath shoulders was about 28% but my biceps are only 6% , so theres not many places on my body where i can lose fat


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

my target is 10% and I have 10 weeks left hopefully i can get there before i run out of steroids, dont want to extend the keto while im off the gear


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

forgot to ask you are you taking steroids while on the keto diet?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

cplmadison said:


> sure did mate
> 
> i started 19% bf but in fairness my belly was 26% and underneath shoulders was about 28% but my biceps are only 6% , so theres not many places on my body where i can lose fat


BF measurements are taken at key sites on the body to give you an overall bf measurement. I can't see how you can spot reduce certain areas.


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## cplmadison (Nov 26, 2013)

my bodyfat for my legs and arms etc is very low like 6% which hasnt changed at all

all my weight is disappearing from my chest and belly, nothing from the back yet though

looks like im lucky so far as the belly was what i wanted to lose most of lol 

i would think maybe some of that 6% lost could also have been some bloat/water gone during the first week of diet?

am keeping a photo diary ill post it up after i complete the cycle


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

From that post you seem to store most of your fat in your back. people store the hard to reduce BF in different places.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Stocked up on corned beef, meat balls, pork chops, chicken, bacon, and lots of eggs and coconut oil.

Are the above okay? Any other high fat suggestions which can help me along my way?

No steroids. Totally clean. May take some clen after say 4 - 5 weeks. What do you guys think


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

You need to get a good training and diet regime in place before you think of using aas etc.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Don't worry I will be hitting the gym hard 5 days a week. Lots of compound lifts ect


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Correct my lower back is always my problem area when it comes to fat


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> Don't worry I will be hitting the gym hard 5 days a week. Lots of compound lifts ect


You may "hit the gym hard" 5 days per week. But unless your diet is good then it will be worthless.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

I know this. That's why I am starting keto and after advice on dos and don'ts along with suggestions to get me up to my fat intake I need which is 185g Fat


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> I know this. That's why I am starting keto and after advice on dos and don'ts along with suggestions to get me up to my fat intake I need which is 185g Fat


Good luck. Is it keto or CKD?


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

I believe keto and ckd are the same thing. Keto being short for ketogenic


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> I believe keto and ckd are the same thing. Keto being short for ketogenic


CKD is with a carb up elememt.

Keto has no carb up.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

You sure? All resources online suggested that ckd and keto are the same. Anyways I was going to try with the carb overload. But may switch to little to no carbs


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Yoi sure your not confusing ckd and tkd both keto diets. But tkd yoi have carbs immediately after work out


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> You sure? All resources online suggested that ckd and keto are the same. Anyways I was going to try with the carb overload. But may switch to little to no carbs


Full keto diet is for eplipsy and requires no carb ups.

CKD is a diet that alllows carbs after 2 weeks for 24hrs only.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Interesting. Well definitely will be going with the carb up. I crave carbs at the weekends


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> Interesting. Well definitely will be going with the carb up. I crave carbs at the weekends


As long as you drop the fats to adjust to the increase in carbs.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

According to my calculations

160g Protein | 185g Fat for six days =2300

160g Protein | 415 carbs 24hr overload =2300

I was under impression carbs should outweigh fat on thus day


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> According to my calculations
> 
> 160g Protein | 185g Fat for six days =2300
> 
> ...


Exactly drop the fats and increase the carbs for the 24hr period.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Excellent. And what about cardio should I include this? Or will it just eat in to my hard earned muscle?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

To be honest you need to post your training and diet for people to be able to assess.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

That's a fine answer. I will put something together Sunday. thanks by the way


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

donovan2123 said:


> That's a fine answer. I will put something together Sunday. thanks by the way


People can't help you unless they know your goals, training and diet etc.


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## Spangle1187 (Jul 27, 2006)

Get yourself on MyFintessPal, and this would help you to keep track of your diet and foods, plus its easy to take a screen shot and stick it on here to show people. I am one week into a cutting diet and my starting weight was 81k with a starting cal goal of 2010 cals. My daily carbs are under 50 grams, I have not decided on a carb refeed day yet but when I do I will decrease the fats on that day. What made you decide on 1400 cals? This is the first time I have attempted to cut and from what information I have read so far the key to keeping muscle mass is to lose the weight (fat) slowly. I will go another week on my current diet before I consider a retweak of the macros.


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Ok i have started keto diet.

Diet is

Meal 1: protein shake

Meal 2: 2 slices of bacon

Meal 3: whole can if corned beef

Meal 4: 5 meat balls

Meal 5: pork chop and 3 egg omelette with cathedral cheese grated.

All cooked in coconut oil.

This comes in at around 2000 calories

This is around 120g Fat, 200g protein, 10 carbs maybe less

I plan to start my gym session next week:

5 days heavy lifting 30-45min

followed by

15-30mim jogging/sprinting

What fibre should I add? And should I have a carb refeed in the first week(this Saturday-sunday) or wait a couple of weeks baring in mind I'm going almost 0 carbs


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Bump


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## donovan2123 (Dec 30, 2009)

Anyone?


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