# Absolute max you can train Biceps?



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

I know biceps is just a muscle group like any other, but I've read that biceps recover quicker than any other muscle group? Is this true?

If so, how often can you really train them hard?

I know training just your biceps won't make a massive difference to most people, but I've always been really lacking in that department. It's not that I'm particularly weak, I can curl around 60kg on an EZ bar, my biceps are just small, and I feel I should give them more attention.

At the moment I train my upper body twice a week where I do chest, back and arms on day A, and shoulders, back and arms on day B. And legs and core once a week.

Can I work an extra day biceps in between or would that hamper my progress?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

do you basically do shoulder curls?

or do you only use your biceps with no momentum, i can curl 40kg and have 16" arms (built with deadlifts i may odd lol) using zero momentum or as little as i can manage with a pb set..

you work you biceps when you train your back, work on your back poundages and your arms will grow.

work on your bench and other presses.. and your arms will grow..

add 10lbs to your frame and your arms will have grown..

focus on squats and deads and your body will secrete maximal amounts of test and gh assuming sleep is inorder..

dont use momentum, contract and hold for as long as you can each rep without destroying the amount of reps you do, orrr work light and focus on the contractions..


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

When I say my biceps are small, I mean relatively. I'm 6'2" and weigh 210lbs with between 15-20% BF.

I always try and keep good form when I train, no swinging about. That's what I mean, I can curl 50kg with ease with absolutely no rocking or drama, but I just think my arms should be bigger.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

so what are your compound exercises doing?


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## daddy123 (Nov 30, 2012)

I believe once a week should be enough. As you train them to some extent when you train your back.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

You can train them several times a week or even twice a day if need be, and yes there is secondary stimulation from alot of back/compound exercises so take that into account if working them more then once.

Sometimes it's best to put them through more stress so they can ADAPT. When you first did curls, your biceps adapted and got bigger. You keep doing the same curls, they probably won't get much bigger as the stimulus isn't enough. They need that edge again in order to adapt (i.e size).

Emphasis should be on tension (slow negatives) when doing bicep exercises, try some giant sets using varying exercises with db's, bars, cables. Make sure your squeezing the life out of your bi's too.

Your biceps dont care that you can curl 50kg or whatever... it's not a powerlifting contest. They do care about how much tension though, so that should be the premise of gun workouts.


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## Max1466868006 (Feb 16, 2010)

Rude, where did you read they recover faster than any other muscle group?


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

splinter said:


> You can train them several times a week or even twice a day if need be, and yes there is secondary stimulation from alot of back/compound exercises so take that into account if working them more then once.
> 
> Sometimes it's best to put them through more stress so they can ADAPT. When you first did curls, your biceps adapted and got bigger. You keep doing the same curls, they probably won't get much bigger as the stimulus isn't enough. They need that edge again in order to adapt (i.e size).
> 
> ...


This is what I've been wanting to hear. 

No harm in trying I guess. Will see what happens if I add in one day of bi's in between.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

TheCrazyCal said:


> do you basically do shoulder curls?
> 
> or do you only use your biceps with no momentum, i can curl 40kg and have 16" arms (built with deadlifts i may odd lol) using zero momentum or as little as i can manage with a pb set..
> 
> ...


Well having never really measured my arms, I just did. Today's a rest day so no pump, and it measured 15 inches. Not sure if I just have a complex, but I think it should be bigger for how hard I train.

As for compounds, I do progressive overloading mostly and try to do a little better or more everytime I squat, bench or OH press, or do any other heavy lifting.


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## daddy123 (Nov 30, 2012)

Rudedog said:


> This is what I've been wanting to hear.
> 
> No harm in trying I guess. Will see what happens if I add in one day of bi's in between.


From that response mate you do not care what people think. You just want to train your bi,s day in day out. Wether they respond or not does not matter.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

daddy123 said:


> From that response mate you do not care what people think. You just want to train your bi,s day in day out. Wether they respond or not does not matter.


Not at all. Please read my previous responses again. I've been training for years and I'm not looking for a quick fix. For the amount of time and effort I've put in, I personally think my arms should have responded better, but they havent.

This is why I'm wondering whether pushing them more will make them respond.

I've heard on more than one occasion that you can train your biceps harder than most other muscles so wanted some opinions.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Rudedog said:


> Well having never really measured my arms, I just did. Today's a rest day so no pump, and it measured 15 inches. Not sure if I just have a complex, but I think it should be bigger for how hard I train.
> 
> As for compounds, I do progressive overloading mostly and try to do a little better or more everytime I squat, bench or OH press, or do any other heavy lifting.


cool yes 15" arms is small for 6" 2, but 20% bf also puts youre amount of muscle you have at below 200lbs which means you need to eat more, so maybe 15" is on par with the rest of ya bod..

60kg is quite a lot to curl imo and its odd that the exercise hasnt directly increased size as you`d expect, that could just mean your strong.. its difficult without pics and a lot more background info but it sounds like you need to eat more (even tho i`d guess you`d like to drop some bf?)

its great your doing a progressive overload, but what are youre poundages? are you on a cut, any idea of what cals your on? oh and how long have you been lifting?

training your upper body 2x a week isnt quite the norm and it may be slowing progress down due to being less recovered than you realize but if your numbers are going up maybe its ok..


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## ProUK (Jul 15, 2013)

Unfortunately arms are genetic, you can get them bigger but you won't have huge arms if they weren't that big after say 6 months training


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

You can train a bodypart more than once a week. The body doesn't understand once every seven days, so get that mentality out of your head. You help it recover with nutrition, training timing, sleep, supplements and so fourth. I'll give you some prime examples of people who training a bodypart more than once a week. Male gymnast - trains rather often. How are the arms looking? Damn good. Male ballet dancer, trains day after day, performs day after day - how are those glutes, hams, quads and calves looking? Big n' ripped.

I don't see why physique sculptures are any different. Thus why its important to change training modalities in order to see training adaptations.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

TheCrazyCal said:


> cool yes 15" arms is small for 6" 2, but 20% bf also puts youre amount of muscle you have at below 200lbs which means you need to eat more, so maybe 15" is on par with the rest of ya bod..
> 
> 60kg is quite a lot to curl imo and its odd that the exercise hasnt directly increased size as you`d expect, that could just mean your strong.. its difficult without pics and a lot more background info but it sounds like you need to eat more (even tho i`d guess you`d like to drop some bf?)
> 
> ...


My diet is clean and I'm trying to lose some bf, so I'm getting around 3000 calories in a day. Once my bf is under control, I'll up that again. I've been training continuously for the last 3 and a half years. Putting on sizable amounts of muscle isn't easy for me. Guess it's just my body type.

As for compounds, I squat 110kg, flat bench 100kg, incline dumbbell press with 40kg dumbbells and deadlifted 160kg before my back decided to s**t itself. I generally try and really push it when I train, but the gains are very slow. At least I'm getting stronger, so all hope is not lost I suppose.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> training your upper body 2x a week isnt quite the norm and it may be slowing progress down due to being less recovered than you realize but if your numbers are going up maybe its ok..


Gotta disagree with you on that one Cal. Your body will adapt, perhaps rudedog's diet and supplements regimen isn't optimal at present.

Training back twice a week has been absolute blessing, although not upper body splitting quads/hams on different days has also been a bonus.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

nothng to disagree on really splint i carefully used to the words isnt quite the norm and may 

just cos sommats theoretically possible yes you can try it, but as far as i know noone really does it..

i trained trap bar 2x a week for 3 years cos i had no other viable options.. do i think its a typical thing to suggest to peeps. not really..

3000 cals is a good amount to trim bf altho i`d trim as and when bf loss stall, however youre unlikely to bring the guns up on a deficit..

i`d still say that rather than focusiing on details like biceps i`d get the frame big first with ya big basic brutal exercises.

i have brought up heavily lagging biceps not to the point of hugeness, but to the point of getting alot of comments recently..

rude dog our weights are very similar, i`m also an ectomorph, albeit im 5"9, also with a dodgy back, for me and i`m not suggesting you do it, but am just saying, for me, dropping my training frequency made THE difference. i appear to grow more, the more heavily i rest.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Well I only train 3 days a week. Monday is upper body, Wednesday is legs and Friday is upper body again. If I rest any more, I might as well stop going to the gym. LOL


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

why bud?

is it impossible to grow on less than that?

or i`ll put it another way, if you havent tried it.. would you actually know? 

i got kinda desperate for results and had to bite the bullet and try less..


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Well, I used to train 5 days a week for a long time, so I definitely didn't give myself enough time to recover.

With reducing my training to 3 days, I feel like I'm defo giving myself enough time to recover. If it was up to me, I'd train like a beast everyday, but unfortunately I'm not willing to go down the PEDs route. 

But I'm always open to suggestions, so thanks for the pointers. I've only just recently reduced my training intervals, so I think I should stick with this for a while to see what I can actually achieve, rather than jumping from one routine to the next.

Any suggestions on supps that might help me along? I'm not a fan of spending tons of money on pointless supplements, so I just take protein and carb powder post workout. I know taking basic creatine monohydrate is probably the only other sup that one should really need.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

When you can deadlift 400lbs for good reps & bench Press 300lbs for good reps you will have some decent sized arms.

I'd suggest you do a YouTube search for "I'll never be a weightlifter" and listen to what Kai Greene is teaching!

Even i still learn new things and I've been training 25 years


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Neil R said:


> When you can deadlift 400lbs for good reps & bench Press 300lbs for good reps you will have some decent sized arms.
> 
> I'd suggest you do a YouTube search for "I'll never be a weightlifter" and listen to what Kai Greene is teaching!
> 
> Even i still learn new things and I've been training 25 years


now that is what i`m talking bout


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Neil R said:


> When you can deadlift 400lbs for good reps & bench Press 300lbs for good reps you will have some decent sized arms.
> 
> I'd suggest you do a YouTube search for "I'll never be a weightlifter" and listen to what Kai Greene is teaching!
> 
> Even i still learn new things and I've been training 25 years


Cheers for that bud. I will have a look.

It's quite disheartening when you've been training for years and you're still not happy with your results! I think I'm moving in the right direction as I've always wanted to be 'big', but I've never actually gotten my bf under control as I was scared I'll just get skinny again.

Now I've decided I don't care, I will get my bf down no matter what! Then try and build from there.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

rude dog even those on PEDs dont train everyday, if only it was as easy of training like a beast everyday for guaranteed results...

if big arms were guaranteed if you curled 8 hours a day 365 days a year, if it was guaren damn teed, peeps would find the will to do it..

im not a supps fan but i do like krealklyn and there not much that can beat a strong espresso pre training 

supps are the icing on a cake of something that already works.. bit like PED`s.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Rudedog said:


> It's quite disheartening when you've been training for years and you're still not happy with your results!


I'm hearing you there!

But that is the nature of what we do. If you are ever happy with the way you look, whats the point of training?

No matter how good you get, you always look to get better.

I've won shows, been to the Universe etc etc and I'm still searching to make improvements.

If you knew half of the sacrifices I've had to make...


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Neil R said:


> If you knew half of the sacrifices I've had to make...


I can only imagine!

I probably should have stated it better. I'm not even remotely happy with my physique. Lol. I've thought of getting a training coach or personal trainer to help me along, but I look at the personal trainers in my gym and think, what the hell are they doing there. Very few of them actually look like personal trainers, and when I see them with clients, it's really not an inspiring sight!!

I'm in this all alone. haha


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

dude im a PT and i make my living training people 2x a week, i now get other local PT`s clients and ive now confirmed what i thoguht i knew, most are jkes with no idea of technique and form or transferring it to clients..

i`ll stick my neck out and say by discovering this place you dont need a PT, you have all the help you`ll ever need here, if you can sift thru all the diverging advice lols..

if you have it in you to train when youre supposed to and like a beast alone youre not one of those people who need a PT to force them or guilt them into turning up, thats a large majority of my clients..

even some of my best clients only stick at it cos theyre with me, i suppose i sell an experience lol..

add 1kg to each of your big compound lifts each week and come back in 2 years time, it can be that SIMPLE if you make it so..

too simple? thats 100kg to all your big lifts..

just being hypothetical


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

That's good to hear crazycal. I've never had a problem turning up to the gym or pushing hard enough to induce a hernia, haha(which I might add actually did happen).

I think the original question either got lost or misconstrued along the way.

I train 3 days a week where I do upper body twice and legs/core once. On my upper body days I do back and also biceps and triceps, so plenty of training for my arms.

Since I feel my arms are lacking, I wondered if there was anything I could do to develop them more with extra training in between. So asking what the absolute max you could train your biceps was, was probably not the right thing to ask. I feel if I do nothing extra, I will forever be stuck with lacking arms.

Sorry for repeating this again, but I don't think my question was really answered. If it was and I missed it, please tell me again.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

for me id suggest using the big compounds to grow your arms, doing more bicep curls (biceps are a third of your upper arm btw) in my opinion is diluting your effort into them.

i can only give my experience as an example and say deadlifts massively helped increase my arm size.

maybe 60kg aint enuff for your arms, so add more weight over time.. your also on a cut mate, that unlikely to get your arms bigger.

if you wanna drop bf make that your focus.

if you want bigger arms the chances are you need to eat more..

btw i have s**t all luck growing my calves still  well i`m making small strides relative to the past.

but if your q was a bout calves id have far less opinions lol.. except add a kg each week lime i`m trying..


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Maybe split your routine up differently.

(1) Chest & Delts

(2) Legs

(3) Back & abs

(4) Biceps & Triceps

Days 1 2 & 3 concentrate on heavy compound lifts. Bench press, Dips, DB shoulder Press, Squats, Leg Press, Chins, BB Row & Deadlifts, then on day 4 use lighter weight and squeeze the living s**t outta the muscles to fdevelop the mind/muscle connection.

You'd know after a month if this is working for you!


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

TheCrazyCal said:


> btw i have s**t all luck growing my calves still  well i`m making small strides relative to the past.
> 
> but if your q was a bout calves id have far less opinions lol.. except add a kg each week lime i`m trying..


I guess we'll train legs when we catch up then eh??


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yup and calves please 

hams and calves are the priority.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Ok, I'll refrain from sneaking in any additional arm exercises. lol

Once I've reached my desired bf level, how do I stop putting the fat back on if I go on a lean bulk? Or will the fact that I'm lean enough help to maintain that level of bf?


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Neil R said:


> Maybe split your routine up differently.
> 
> (1) Chest & Delts
> 
> ...


The only thing I find with a routine like this is if I do push only exercises on one day like chest/shoulders, I don't get as good a pump. At the moment I do a push exercise and then superset it with a pull exercise, and I can really feel it working and get a great pump. Or does this not really matter?

Also, if you do biceps/triceps right after back, won't that hamper your progress as you would have used your biceps with the back exercises?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

for me i`d go lean bulk, thats all i ever intentionally do..

you put fat on bad in the past cos of diet, it`ll go on better with a good diet 

cut or bulk, keep it lean be patient and allways think long term..

i dont think your strength will suffer with a mild deficit..


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Well it's the end of my first week on my low/no carb diet. Strength is still going up, fat is coming down and weight is staying the same, so I guess that's a good sign!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

you use the word guess and hope a lot mate.. very telling...

i also suspect if you dont get a good pump of certain routines and need to do supersets your forms not quite as good as it could be.

pump is not the be all and all saying that, you dont get pump perse of 5x5, but you do feel annihilated still and muscle simply feel dead..


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

TheCrazyCal said:


> you use the word guess and hope a lot mate.. very telling...


What do you mean bud?


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Rudedog said:


> Also, if you do biceps/triceps right after back, won't that hamper your progress as you would have used your biceps with the back exercises?


Have you thought about that question for even one second bud???

You started this thread asking if it was okay to train Bi's more than once a week!

PS- In answer to your question. Only if you train back using a supinated grip.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Neil R said:


> Have you thought about that question for even one second bud???


Totally. I know I asked if you could train bi's more than once a week, but not with no rest in between. I think I wrongly assumed you meant train your arms straight after you did back doing pull ups and other reverse grip exercises.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Ah, I see.

No each is on a different day.


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