# Best diet for general health?



## Heath

On here lately there have been a load of discussions on high carb vs high fat diets for keeping the fat off etc..

But do people consider whats good for their general health or just getting to goals fastest?

I see people eating bacon, sausage, cheese, chicken skin etc every day as part of their keto diets but this is all the stuff that we are told as kids to avoid!!

So just want to see what people see as a healthy diet for a healthy life style? And does anyone do keto in a way that they believe is good for their health? What do you eat in this case?

I also read that you shouldnt eat fruit during cutting?

Discuss


----------



## Fit4life

For a healthy diet we need to understand ourselves as individuals, what is great for Joe isnt so good for Joanna, indeed Giseppe if they are poorly....if you get my drift. At different stages throughout our lives we will require different dietary needs to satisfy our ever changing bodies.

Children require a very different diet than most adults, those with disease clearly require foods that assist recovery, prevent illness etc, so diets are and always should be individualistic.

Presently I am enjoying a diet containing oats, white fish, chicken , dark green veggies and nuts and sweet potato, but recently had to eat a very different diet due to recovery from surgery...

I always try to eat protein and veg no matter what the circumstances are because the human body is designed to eat protein rather than cereals.

What I really detest is how food companies promote foods that were designed to feed the masses during the US recession in the 1920-30's cheaply , using byproducts from the farming industry like cereals , they are overly processed are high in fats, sugars and salt, so why are they promoted as being healthy for kids???

rant over

kaza


----------



## Hera

I've noticed that A LOT of people seem to neglect their veggie intake. I see people's diets and the photos they take of meals and think 'where's the green?'. There's an abundance of nutrients being missed by neglecting to consume veggies.

For me personally, I just focus on being in calorie defecit and having as wide a variety of food as possible. I probably have more than my 5 veggies a day and eat lean pieces of meat and fish. I personally keep my carb intake low because it just takes up too much of my daily calorie 'allowance' to be worth it...I'd rather have a large portion of turkey stir-fry filled with lots of veggies than a small portion of carbs.


----------



## Bensif

A healthy diet is a balanced diet. Health isn't just physical well being, its mental too. Allow yourself to indulge here and there. This is of course very different from a bodybuilding diet, but does not mean a bodybuilding diet can't be healthy too


----------



## Heath

I kind of follow IIFYM but due to cutting I don't fit much 'rubbish' in anyway after hitting my P+F macros


----------



## dtlv

I follow a diet more based around health than any other target. If you look to studies there are definitely genetic variabilities that make some nutrients and nutrient combinations more or less likely to influence disease risk factors in different people, but some general rules seem to apply across the board:

maintain good sodiumotassium balance (to maintain low blood pressure and prevent fluid retention)

maintain good omega 3mega 6 PUFA balance (keep the body in an anti inflammatory state, improve insulin sensitivity, maintain health blood pressure etc)

include dietary fibre (for bowel, colonic and intestinal health)

preferentially replace long chain saturated fats with monounsaturated fats (to maintain high insulin sensitivity, increase LDL particle size, minimise total LDL)

keep carbohydrate intake well under 60% of total calorie intake (to prevent hyperinsulinemia and hypertriglyceridemia, increase LDL particle size, minimise total LDL, protect against developing insulin sensitivity and to allow adequate expression of lipolysis)

avoid over-cooked meats/proteins/meat fats (to avoid carcinogenic compounds)

'eat the rainbow' -include a variety of pigmented plant foods (provision of antioxidants to reduce cellular ageing and to bring in beneficial minerals, vitamins and phytonutrients for a myriad of functions)

avoid excessively low carb intakes long term (to protect against prolonged amino and fatty acid induced acidosis, and the resulting risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones)

ensure adequate fluid intake (protects against cellular ageing and important for just about everything else)

avoid protein exceeding carbohydrate intake (important for 'natty' men to maintain testosterone output)

Diet is only half of good health though, and overeating healthy foods has negative effects, as does eating healthy without also being active... the overall formula has to be healthy food + appropriate intake of food + activity = best chance of prolonged good health.


----------



## Hera

Great post Det! :thumbup1:


----------



## Heath

Katy said:


> Great post Det! :thumbup1:


x2 but might have some questions in a bit after I try and decipher the science lol


----------



## Heath

First off thanks to det because that was just the kind of post I was hoping to get (have some reps) but have a few questions if you get time 

"maintain good sodiumotassium balance (to maintain low blood pressure and prevent fluid retention)"

could you explain what a good balance would actually be?

"maintain good omega 3mega 6 PUFA balance (keep the body in an anti inflammatory state, improve insulin sensitivity, maintain health blood pressure etc)"

as above lol.

"preferentially replace long chain saturated fats with monounsaturated fats (to maintain high insulin sensitivity, increase LDL particle size, minimise total LDL)"

any examples? is this such as coconut oil?

"keep carbohydrate intake well under 60% of total calorie intake (to prevent hyperinsulinemia and hypertriglyceridemia, increase LDL particle size, minimise total LDL, protect against developing insulin sensitivity and to allow adequate expression of lipolysis)"

"avoid protein exceeding carbohydrate intake (important for 'natty' men to maintain testosterone output)"

would this work whilst cutting? if you keep protein lower than carbs and carbs below 60% would this be enough protein and would rest of cals come from healthy fats?


----------



## Hera

Dtlv74 said:


> 'eat the rainbow' -include a variety of pigmented plant foods (provision of antioxidants to* reduce cellular ageing* and to bring in beneficial minerals, vitamins and phytonutrients for a myriad of functions)


Apparently you can't consume enough of the foods containing these antiaging propterties to actually have a significiant affect. However, trials are being run using capsules containing enough and results have already been amazing - they've literally undone skin aging!!

I'll definately been grabbing some of those when they're on sale!!


----------



## Helen88

I'd run trials on them!


----------



## dtlv

MutantX said:


> First off thanks to det because that was just the kind of post I was hoping to get (have some reps) but have a few questions if you get time
> 
> "maintain good sodiumotassium balance (to maintain low blood pressure and prevent fluid retention)"
> 
> could you explain what a good balance would actually be?
> 
> "maintain good omega 3mega 6 PUFA balance (keep the body in an anti inflammatory state, improve insulin sensitivity, maintain health blood pressure etc)"
> 
> as above lol.
> 
> "preferentially replace long chain saturated fats with monounsaturated fats (to maintain high insulin sensitivity, increase LDL particle size, minimise total LDL)"
> 
> any examples? is this such as coconut oil?
> 
> "keep carbohydrate intake well under 60% of total calorie intake (to prevent hyperinsulinemia and hypertriglyceridemia, increase LDL particle size, minimise total LDL, protect against developing insulin sensitivity and to allow adequate expression of lipolysis)"
> 
> "avoid protein exceeding carbohydrate intake (important for 'natty' men to maintain testosterone output)"
> 
> would this work whilst cutting? if you keep protein lower than carbs and carbs below 60% would this be enough protein and would rest of cals come from healthy fats?


For Na/K balance a simple rule is to go for double potassium intake compared to sodium. The rda's for each are 2,300mg sodium and 4,700mg potassium, but average daily intakes in a standard western diet are around 3,000mg sodium and 2,000mg potassium... people with a balance that reflects the rda's are significantly and strongly correlated with lower heart disease, and lower hypertension, and the correlation is very strong. A secondary side effect is reduced fluid retention (even on a high carb diet), as excessive sodium is usually the prime cause of water retention - people often blame the carbs though (as fluid retention becomes higher in carb diets) but don't even consider mineral balance may actually be the prime factor underlying it. Ironically though potassium is only found in any real significance in plant based mostly carby foods, although much of it is often lost in processing, which is just another reason to eat mostly clean. potatoes are the most common potassium food, but then many people add salt and counteract the benefit.

I can post studies if you like, but here's something more readable: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/potassium-salt-diet-dangers_n_895124.html

Omega 3/6 balance is simple - ensure omega 3 intake is no less than equal to one third of omega 6 intake (3:1 ratio), and ideally closer to 2:1 or even 1:1. This is actually easy to achieve if eating lots of unprocessed vegetable and marine fats, but almost impossible without supplementation when using lots of processed vegetable oils, or even 'heart healthy' fats used to replace saturated fats... the typical werstern diet has an omega 6/3 ratio of more than 15:1 in favour of omega 6, and is a much bigger problem for a variety of health issues than many people think about imo.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909

Keeping carbs below 60% of energy intake is more important for health in calorie excess than in deficit... the risk factor here is heart increased risk of hreart disease similar to low density LDL risk association. When in kcal deficit triglyceride synthesis automatically lowers to safer levels, even if elevated and satistically at least no longer is associated with risk.

For testosterone, is complex and there are many dietary interactions. Getting adequate saturated or monounsaturated fat is important, as is having a reasonable level of total fat in diet (optimum somewhere between 20 and 40% total energy from fat with a requirement for 10% to be from mono/sat fats (mono better than sat fat)). Veggies also benefit from good PUFA balance. Carb to protein ratio is also very important though, possibly most important because of the combination of elevated cortisol and low testosterone that comes from protein exceeding carbs. Energy intake further skews the equation though as test is always higher when in calorie excess than in deficit assuming diet remains unchanged beyond total energy intake.

A final comment is that when carbs are very high and protein very low problems develop with elevations in SHBG and other proteins that bind up otherwise free test... when factoring in the need of the bodybuilder for decent protein intake, provided fat intake is balanced (going back to omega ratio, this helps test too according to a couple of studies) and healthy, I think you don't have to go as high in carbs/low in protein as the 2:1 ratio suggested by the studies... 3:2 is not going to be measurable detrimental imo.

Full study on macro interactions for test if interested: http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49.full


----------



## Hera

BONE said:


> Think i will have to start supplementing omega 3's how much would one take each day when my diet is low in veg with no fruit, i eat some peppers and brocolli but no where near as much as i should, my diet is mainly eggs,chicken,oats,tuna,whey, some veg and multi vits


With my balanced diet I still have 4 EFA capsules a day.


----------



## dtlv

Katy said:


> Apparently you can't consume enough of the foods containing these antiaging propterties to actually have a significiant affect. However, trials are being run using capsules containing enough and results have already been amazing - they've literally undone skin aging!!
> 
> I'll definately been grabbing some of those when they're on sale!!


Absolutely, no, you can't reverse the natural rate of cellular ageing though dietary means, absolutely not... but you can prevent or at least limit acceleration of cellular ageing caused by some forms of oxidative stress, especially related to consumption of toxins and activity.

Many nutrients appear to do this, but most nutrients work in a very specific capacity helping certain form of cellular stress only... hence the general idea of getting a wide variety of antioxidants as a good coverall.


----------



## dtlv

MutantX said:


> x2 but might have some questions in a bit after I try and decipher the science lol


Don't be modest mate... you questions are always intelligent, and that demonstrates a good deal of understanding.


----------



## Heath

BONE said:


> Think i will have to start supplementing omega 3's how much would one take each day when my diet is low in veg with no fruit, i eat some peppers and brocolli but no where near as much as i should, my diet is mainly eggs,chicken,oats,tuna,whey, some veg and multi vits


Im in a similar situation with my diet.

This has totally changed how I am looking at macro splits now but struggling to get the idea of what a good macro split for BB'ing is now taking what has been said into consideration.

Maybe 40f30c30p?


----------



## dtlv

BONE said:


> Think i will have to start supplementing omega 3's how much would one take each day when my diet is low in veg with no fruit, i eat some peppers and brocolli but no where near as much as i should, my diet is mainly eggs,chicken,oats,tuna,whey, some veg and multi vits


Is difficult to know how much would be optimum without spendign a lot of time going through your diet, but those sources do look low. There are of course three ways to improve the rartio anyway; to lower omega 6, to increase omega 3, to do both simultaneously (best option imo).

For the first look to minimise high omega 6 foods like cheap veg oil, for the second eat plenty of oily fish, flax/linseed oil etc. Is also good to include foods that have a natural balance of omega 3/6 that doesn't require any playing around with at all... things like hemp seed oil are awesome.

Here's a really good blog article on the subject of getting omega ratios right: http://theconsciouslife.com/anti-inflammatory-diet-how-to-balance-omega-3-omega-6-fats.htm


----------



## Hera

Dtlv74 said:


> Absolutely, no, you can't reverse the natural rate of cellular ageing though dietary means, absolutely not... but you can prevent or at least limit acceleration of cellular ageing caused by some forms of oxidative stress, especially related to consumption of toxins and activity.
> 
> Many nutrients appear to do this, but most nutrients work in a very specific capacity helping certain form of cellular stress only... hence the general idea of getting a wide variety of antioxidants as a good coverall.


Oh what I was saying is that in large quantities these can reverse the signs of aging. They help restore the collagen fibres in the skin or something. I watched a documentary about why our skin wrinkles and the latest research showing that we can interfere with various aspects resulting in restoring tthe quality of collagen. The sorts of things in the capsules being trialed are things like lycopene and are in quantities that can actually make a difference; quantities that you can't get in a normal diet.


----------



## dtlv

MutantX said:


> Im in a similar situation with my diet.
> 
> This has totally changed how I am looking at macro splits now but struggling to get the idea of what a good macro split for BB'ing is now taking what has been said into consideration.
> 
> *Maybe 40f30c30p?*


Try 30/30/30 with a floating 10%... is the diet I like because it allows flexibility. I tend to have gravitated from starting at this a few years back to something more like 40/30/30 c/p/f, and when I'm eating this way (and not a depressed mess who doesn't eat properly at all) I generally feel pretty amazing, certainly more so than before becoming diet conscious and just eating whatever was there. I also feel better on this than other macro splits I've tried personally, and have hardly any minor issues like IBS, zits, headaches etc compared to other diets. Is not just the macros though I don't think, the (mostly, not completely) clean food selection and attention to detials listed above am sure plays a big part.


----------



## dtlv

Katy said:


> Oh what I was saying is that in large quantities these can reverse the signs of aging. They help restore the collagen fibres in the skin or something. I watched a documentary about why our skin wrinkles and the latest research showing that we can interfere with various aspects resulting in restoring tthe quality of collagen. The sorts of things in the capsules being trialed are things like lycopene and are in quantities that can actually make a difference; quantities that you can't get in a normal diet.


In italiano, e molto bene!!! Really interesting - will look for info for sure!


----------



## Hera

Dtlv74 said:


> In italiano, e molto bene!!! Really interesting - will look for info for sure!


The whole documentary was quite fascinating. I now make sure I always wear UVA protection on my face! They've found that squids naturally make a UVA protection for their eyes (like sunglasses!) and scientists are looking at it to see if they can produce it for human. The collagen info was most impressive though - looking at how the 'things' that manufacture collagen become less effective with age and how they might be able to find a way to prevent this from happening. I think that the next generation may look significantly younger for their age given this research.


----------



## Heath

Dtlv74 said:


> Try 30/30/30 with a floating 10%... is the diet I like because it allows flexibility. I tend to have gravitated from starting at this a few years back to something more like 40/30/30 c/p/f, and when I'm eating this way (and not a depressed mess who doesn't eat properly at all) I generally feel pretty amazing, certainly more so than before becoming diet conscious and just eating whatever was there. I also feel better on this than other macro splits I've tried personally, and have hardly any minor issues like IBS, zits, headaches etc compared to other diets. Is not just the macros though I don't think, the (mostly, not completely) clean food selection and attention to detials listed above am sure plays a big part.


Thinking about 40c/35p/25f as this would still manage me to get 1g protein per lbs bodyweight.


----------



## dtlv

MutantX said:


> Thinking about 40c/35p/25f as this would still manage me to get 1g protein per lbs bodyweight.


Looks good to me mate, and not a fiddly macro split to organise either


----------



## Heath

dtlv said:


> For testosterone, is complex and there are many dietary interactions. Getting adequate saturated or monounsaturated fat is important, as is having a reasonable level of total fat in diet (optimum somewhere between 20 and 40% total energy from fat with a requirement for 10% to be from mono/sat fats (mono better than sat fat)). Veggies also benefit from good PUFA balance. Carb to protein ratio is also very important though, possibly most important because of the combination of elevated cortisol and low testosterone that comes from protein exceeding carbs. Energy intake further skews the equation though as test is always higher when in calorie excess than in deficit assuming diet remains unchanged beyond total energy intake.
> 
> A final comment is that when carbs are very high and protein very low problems develop with elevations in SHBG and other proteins that bind up otherwise free test... when factoring in the need of the bodybuilder for decent protein intake, provided fat intake is balanced (going back to omega ratio, this helps test too according to a couple of studies) and healthy, I think you don't have to go as high in carbs/low in protein as the 2:1 ratio suggested by the studies... 3:2 is not going to be measurable detrimental imo.
> 
> Full study on macro interactions for test if interested: http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49.full


Bumping an old thread to ask this but do you think the importance of keeping carbs higher than protein is the same during cutting?

I ask because I dont see many cutting diets with higher carbs than prot.


----------



## pinkpen

*Getting the right balance*

There is no such thing as good or a bad food: the essential feature of a healthy diet is balance. To help you get a good balance, nutritionist divide foods into five main groups. You need to eat some foods from each group, each day.


----------



## George-Bean

Good thread.

Simple as it sounds I eat nothing processed and nothing out of a box as my starting point no matter what my diet is at that time.


----------



## mark22

pinkpen said:


> *Getting the right balance*
> 
> There is no such thing as good or a bad food: the essential feature of a healthy diet is balance. To help you get a good balance, nutritionist divide foods into five main groups. You need to eat some foods from each group, each day.


That sounds very much like what the doctor says to me and then tells me butter iand whole milk are bad


----------



## dtlv

MutantX said:


> Bumping an old thread to ask this but do you think the importance of keeping carbs higher than protein is the same during cutting?
> 
> I ask because I dont see many cutting diets with higher carbs than prot.


When cutting at an average or high-ish body fat then I don't see a problem with carbs being higher than protein so long as protein is adequate... when cutting to very low body fat levels from an already lean position though then to reduce the sugary carbs and omega 6 and saturated fats whilst keeping protein the same would be the best default advice for most people IMO.


----------



## Bulk Meats

A good diet is inclusive of all food groups with bad fats to a minimum, it is essential to make sure you are eating from every food group in order to receive the correct nutrients as a diet always the same that is never changed is not good enough for warding off bugs and disease!

Hope this helps!


----------



## jane1224

I think its important to keep your immune system as strong as possible. I take a lot of herbal supplements for that, especially in the winter. My favorite is Herbs Etc. Lyphmatonic.


----------



## fitnessgyms

Choosing these best foods to eat for great health will help you look younger, feel better, have more energy and stay well. But that's not all.

Vegetables

Fruit

Whole Grains

Beans, Nuts and Seeds

Fats and Oils

Dairy and Eggs

Fish, Poultry and Meats

Water and Other Liquids


----------



## latblaster

fitnessgyms said:


> Choosing these best foods to eat for great health will help you look younger, feel better, have more energy and stay well. But that's not all.
> 
> Vegetables
> 
> Fruit
> 
> Whole Grains
> 
> Beans, Nuts and Seeds
> 
> Fats and Oils
> 
> Dairy and Eggs
> 
> Fish, Poultry and Meats
> 
> Water and Other *Liquids*


Lager's a liquid, is it ok if I drink 10 pints a day to stay hydrated?


----------



## Heath

Bumping this as it's a good topic IMO 

I know egg yolks are meant to be good cholesterol but should these be limited on a daily/weekly basis?


----------



## Angelica85

totally agreed with you .

if someone wants to be fit then he/she should have proper diet plus i would recommend that little bit of exercise may be act as a bonus point for fitness.


----------

