# Gyno full gland removal - UK



## SK50

I have small gyno lumps from AAS. They are solid discs/pea size lumps which have reduced somewhat with SERMs/letro etc but won't die off completely. They aren't actually even visible unless I'm having a flare up from high E2, HGH or alcohol or whatever where they get a little pointy, but I'm getting sick of battling it with SERMs and / or AIs (side effects, libido issues etc) and am considering getting them removed once and for all.

Long story short, I'm looking for the best place in the UK to have the glands completely removed (not reduced) so I don't ever have to worry about it again. Cost is not the concern, just want the best surgeon, don't want to go to Poland etc.

Any recommendations please? Loads on Google but looking for the best place. London ideally.

Thanks

@banzi


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## swole troll

im sure youre aware of this but just for anyone else reading:

you'll never remove gyno with AI's or SERM's

the best you can do is reduce the size to an unnoticeable amount but the gland will ALWAYS remain without surgery


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## Growing Lad

Karidis and Vik Vijh are top uk guys. Avoid Poland, I had all gland removed tho and have craters. Regret having it. But the best surgeons are in USA. Caridi probably the best


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## ashmo

Not many have had it done in the UK due to the cost 5k+ usually, I would recommend the Noa Clinic in Poland, Adam has done loads of gyno surgery's.

Whatclinic has some reviews on UK locations

http://www.whatclinic.com/cosmetic-plastic-surgery/uk/male-breast-reduction#reviews_list


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## SK50

swole troll said:


> im sure youre aware of this but just for anyone else reading:
> 
> you'll never remove gyno with AI's or SERM's
> 
> the best you can do is reduce the size to an unnoticeable amount but the gland will ALWAYS remain without surgery


 Completely agree. Once it's hardened mine simply won't reverse any further. I can make mine completely invisible with SERM or AI but it's a total pain in the ass to eat meds all the time. On holidays when I drink I need 1.25 letro. Completely invisible but it's become enough of an annoyance to want this taken care of.

Also synthetic HGH makes mine lactate.



Growing Lad said:


> Karidis and Vik Vijh are top uk guys. Avoid Poland, I had all gland removed tho and have craters. Regret having it. But the best surgeons are in USA. Caridi probably the best


 Thanks, will look into these people.

I have heard of the risk of inverted nipples if all gland is removed. Is this based on the skill of the surgeon or luck of the draw?



ashmo said:


> Not many have had it done in the UK due to the cost 5k+ usually, I would recommend the Noa Clinic in Poland, Adam has done loads of gyno surgery's.
> 
> Whatclinic has some reviews on UK locations
> 
> http://www.whatclinic.com/cosmetic-plastic-surgery/uk/male-breast-reduction#reviews_list


 Thanks, cost is fine but I want 100% sure it not to be screwed up. Its full gland removal or nothing for me or I figure I'll just end up with the same problem all over again?


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## swole troll

SK50 said:


> Thanks, cost is fine but I want 100% sure it not to be screwed up. *Its full gland removal or nothing for me or I figure I'll just end up with the same problem all over again?*


 correct

the problem will be reoccurring if you dont have full gland removal

some surgeons will remove just the problem area and leave part of the root to avoid the crater some people suffer with

a skilled surgeon should be able to remove the entire gland plus the root and leave no crater

imagine going through the cost and recovery only to have it grow back when you slip up on your next dbol blast

likely to put you out of the gym for a good 2-3 weeks and up to 8 weeks before you can train your chest again

if that were me id want 100% assurance that id never have to go through the recovery again

best of luck to you mate, being someone who is pretty damn gyno sensitive myself i see this being a route ill be going down one day


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## Growing Lad

SK50 said:


> Completely agree. Once it's hardened mine simply won't reverse any further. I can make mine completely invisible with SERM or AI but it's a total pain in the ass to eat meds all the time. On holidays when I drink I need 1.25 letro. Completely invisible but it's become enough of an annoyance to want this taken care of.
> 
> Also synthetic HGH makes mine lactate.
> 
> Thanks, will look into these people.
> 
> I have heard of the risk of inverted nipples if all gland is removed. Is this based on the skill of the surgeon or luck of the draw?
> 
> Thanks, cost is fine but I want 100% sure it not to be screwed up. Its full gland removal or nothing for me or I figure I'll just end up with the same problem all over again?


 It's hard to say to be honest, let me say that crater sucks! It's worse than.l having puffy nipples cos sitting down I get creases and it really f**ks me off. I'm saving for revision and looking at going to USA the thing is it could just be luck of the draw cos every surgeon I look at has bad and good reviews! It's a mine field. What does increase the probability is having all gland removed, obviously there's no support behind it, a good surgeon will use special stitches or graft fat to the under side of the nipple but depending how you heal this still might not work.

i basically have zero under the nipple and scar tissue around it making the crater look worse.

Good luck tho, maybe have consultations a with a few surgeons and ask lots of questions


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## SK50

Growing Lad said:


> It's hard to say to be honest, let me say that crater sucks! It's worse than.l having puffy nipples cos sitting down I get creases and it really f**ks me off. I'm saving for revision and looking at going to USA the thing is it could just be luck of the draw cos every surgeon I look at has bad and good reviews! It's a mine field. What does increase the probability is having all gland removed, obviously there's no support behind it, a good surgeon will use special stitches or graft fat to the under side of the nipple but depending how you heal this still might not work.
> 
> i basically have zero under the nipple and scar tissue around it making the crater look worse.
> 
> Good luck tho, maybe have consultations a with a few surgeons and ask lots of questions


 Thanks for this feedback.... that is worrying... certainly gives me more to consider. So it seems an element of chance is involved. Can't they just implant some padding of some sort?

Consultations and questions seem like the way forward. Hoping Banzi gets in at some point as he seemed confident full gland removal was straight forward in other threads....


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## banzi

a lot of surgeons seem reluctant to remove the entire gland, mine did as he told me it was the only way to ensure it never came back, the issue you can have is that if you get fat again the will be nothing behind the nipple to hold it out and they can invert, I never get fat so its never been an issue.

I think some dont want to remove it all because they think they might get return business if they leave some in.

I went to a Dr Harland (I think) in Preston private Hospital, it was a long time ago 93, chaps likely retired or dead by now.


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## SK50

banzi said:


> a lot of surgeons seem reluctant to remove the entire gland, mine did as he told me it was the only way to ensure it never came back, the issue you can have is that if you get fat again the will be nothing behind the nipple to hold it out and they can invert, I never get fat so its never been an issue.
> 
> I think some dont want to remove it all because they think they might get return business if they leave some in.
> 
> I went to a Dr Harland (I think) in Preston private Hospital, it was a long time ago 93, chaps likely retired or dead by now.


 That's really useful info, thanks.

The bodyfat issue makes sense that the indentation won't be visible without significant surrounding fat tissue... I never really go above 12% or so and if I ever did I would tend to keep my top on.

Any other inverted nipple horror stories here?


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## banzi

SK50 said:


> That's really useful info, thanks.
> 
> The bodyfat issue makes sense that the indentation won't be visible without significant surrounding fat tissue... I never really go above 12% or so and if I ever did I would tend to keep my top on.
> 
> Any other inverted nipple horror stories here?


 anyone over 12% should be made to keep their top on.


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## MikeH

I am 3 weeks post surgury now.

My surgeon removed the complete gland, his first intention was to leave some of the gland to prevent the invertion.

After the surgury he told me he removed everything, and performed some kind of skinfold and sowed that behind my nipples. And i've read about this technique some surgeons apply, so it is possible.

The swelling now is minimal. And no craterforming.

I saw a clip on youtube from rich piana and some guy, he had massive craters. I'll search for the link.


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## landerson

Does the gyno only come when on cycle? Or is it constantly there regardless?


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## MikeH

1m40.


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## Growing Lad

Look at Craig golias Instagram


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## Growing Lad

MikeH said:


> I am 3 weeks post surgury now.
> 
> My surgeon removed the complete gland, his first intention was to leave some of the gland to prevent the invertion.
> 
> After the surgury he told me he removed everything, and performed some kind of skinfold and sowed that behind my nipples. And i've read about this technique some surgeons apply, so it is possible.
> 
> The swelling now is minimal. And no craterforming.
> 
> I saw a clip on youtube from rich piana and some guy, he had massive craters. I'll search for the link.


 Who'd you go to mate? Quilting stitches I think it's called


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## SK50

MikeH said:


> I am 3 weeks post surgury now.
> 
> My surgeon removed the complete gland, his first intention was to leave some of the gland to prevent the invertion.
> 
> After the surgury he told me he removed everything, and performed some kind of skinfold and sowed that behind my nipples. And i've read about this technique some surgeons apply, so it is possible.
> 
> The swelling now is minimal. And no craterforming.
> 
> I saw a clip on youtube from rich piana and some guy, he had massive craters. I'll search for the link.


 Wow, the craters in that video are awful.... never seen anything like it. That's making me rethink this.

Who / where did you get yours done?


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## MikeH

I had mine done in belgium, but i'm from holland myself.

Dr. Bosman in Hasselt (Belgium) for those who are interested.


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## SK50

landerson said:


> Does the gyno only come when on cycle? Or is it constantly there regardless?


 I mostly only TRT these days, 50 prop EOD (175 ew). Sometimes add 350 primo or so to keep in shape. 0.25mg adex EOD keeps it invisible mostly but libido is reduced - still haven't managed to dial it in after months. I seem to need high-ish E2 for libido but that flares my gyno. If I use no AI they start to hurt after a week or so. Tried aromasin, letro, adex, nolva, raloxifene, toremifene. Main problem is alcohol and HGH. Masteron is great but it eats my hair. I also need to load up on a lot of nolva before using HCG. Just the usual complicated gyno BS really....

HGH = galactorrhea and lactation for me, that's what bugs me the most.


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## jimbo83

ashmo said:


> Not many have had it done in the UK due to the cost 5k+ usually, I would recommend the Noa Clinic in Poland, Adam has done loads of gyno surgery's.
> 
> Whatclinic has some reviews on UK locations
> 
> http://www.whatclinic.com/cosmetic-plastic-surgery/uk/male-breast-reduction#reviews_list


 I can also recommend Noa clinic, I had full gland removal 3 weeks ago.....


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## landerson

SK50 said:


> I mostly only TRT these days, 50 prop EOD (175 ew). Sometimes add 350 primo or so to keep in shape. 0.25mg adex EOD keeps it invisible mostly but libido is reduced - still haven't managed to dial it in after months. I seem to need high-ish E2 for libido but that flares my gyno. If I use no AI they start to hurt after a week or so. Tried aromasin, letro, adex, nolva, raloxifene, toremifene. Main problem is alcohol and HGH. Masteron is great but it eats my hair. I also need to load up on a lot of nolva before using HCG. Just the usual complicated gyno BS really....
> 
> HGH = galactorrhea and lactation for me, that's what bugs me the most.


 Sounds like a nightmare mate! Have you tried proviron? And maybe some cialis?


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## anaboliclove

MikeH said:


> 1m40.


 It's a mess that


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## Archaic

SK50 said:


> I mostly only TRT these days, 50 prop EOD (175 ew). Sometimes add 350 primo or so to keep in shape. 0.25mg adex EOD keeps it invisible mostly but libido is reduced - still haven't managed to dial it in after months. I seem to need high-ish E2 for libido but that flares my gyno. If I use no AI they start to hurt after a week or so. Tried aromasin, letro, adex, nolva, raloxifene, toremifene. Main problem is alcohol and HGH. Masteron is great but it eats my hair. I also need to load up on a lot of nolva before using HCG. Just the usual complicated gyno BS really....
> 
> HGH = galactorrhea and lactation for me, that's what bugs me the most.


 If you are on TRT long-term, I don't get why you're running Propionate? It's a very frequent and needless amount of jabs. No Endo in any country that I'm aware has credited this protocol.

The Adex, even at 1mg ED it will not lower E2 by more than 48% in men. You're running 8x lower than that dose, I would find it suprising if this is the cause for your libido drop.

Surgeon - @Redman, an old member here and a very intelligent chap. He had glands removed in London if I recall correctly, but I'm not sure he's been active for a while. @Pscarb may be able to put you in touch.


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## SK50

landerson said:


> Sounds like a nightmare mate! Have you tried proviron? And maybe some cialis?


 It's not that bad, I am a bit of a drama queen / perfectionist when it comes to this. It's just doing my head in enough to want it fixed so I never have to worry about it again and so I can even blast test or use dbol / tren. So yeah I have systematically tried everything, proviron, dopamine agonists, crashing E2 and prolactin etc.

But they will always flare when E2 goes high or when I use HGH


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## SK50

Archaic said:


> If you are on TRT long-term, I don't get why you're running Propionate? It's a very frequent and needless amount of jabs. No Endo in any country that I'm aware has credited this protocol.
> 
> The Adex, even at 1mg ED it will not lower E2 by more than 48% in men. You're running 8x lower than that dose, I would find it suprising if this is the cause for your libido drop.
> 
> Surgeon - @Redman, an old member here and a very intelligent chap. He had glands removed in London if I recall correctly, but I'm not sure he's been active for a while. @Pscarb may be able to put you in touch.


 I use prop as I like jabbing, takes me 30 seconds subQ frontloaded slin pin. And I found/adjusted the right dosage much quicker using prop. I could easily switch it to 200 enanthate now but I'm happy with the way it is, also that would mean a lab switch again which would complicate it all over again. Plus 50 prop eod gives me a sense of stability - probably no difference in practice but having no peaks/troughs just makes me feel good.

The endo I was considering getting it through talked about 100 EW and dismissed the whole concept of testing oestrogens so I just decided to do it myself rather than try to get DX and RX. I'm not looking for true TRT, I'm cruising in effect. I'd cruise at 300 if it didn't complicate the gyno thing more.

I did loads of T and E2 tests trying to find the sweet spot. I used to be a heavy AI user but having been dicking around with this for so long I can state with pretty high confidence that it is the AI lowering libido even in low dosage. I'm aware of the pharmacokinetic differences with males and AIs and I agree it's very hard to 'crash' estrogen, but from personal experience 1mg adex ED gives me severe knee and shoulder pains I cannot bench or squat or even sleep - I've done it many times.

Anyway, the cruise/TRT thing I have mostly under control but I would prefer no AI, but main things which aggravate my gyno is when I drink alcohol or add HGH (interaction with PRL receptors on my gyno causing lactation) which complicates my lifestyle a little.

If I can fix all this for a few grand I'll be laughing as I don't want to quit the roids and it's wasting my time.


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## SK50

Archaic, not sure if your tags works... tagging again just in case, and thanks...

@Pscarb @redman

Guys any recommendations for UK gyno full gland removal?


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## SK50

jimbo83 said:


> I can also recommend Noa clinic, I had full gland removal 3 weeks ago.....


 Are you completely happy with the result? What kinda size was your gyno?

Body fat callipers measure mine at 10mm diameter on a good day


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## SK50

Anyway...

In summary, I'm not looking to optimise my cruise/cycle here, I'm just looking for the best surgeon to remove gyno so I can shoot whatever I want without having to micromanage gyno.

So far Karidis looks like my first call. But open to all other suggestions.

Thanks again


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## jimbo83

SK50 said:


> Are you completely happy with the result? What kinda size was your gyno?
> 
> Body fat callipers measure mine at 10mm diameter on a good day


 My gyno was egg sized according to the surgeon, I also struggled carrying fat around the chest so had quite a bit of lipo too. The whole trip to Poland etc was well worth the save in £££. It cost £2k for everything, flights, accommodation, food, taxis etc is all included in the 2k


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## 3752

SK50 said:


> Archaic, not sure if your tags works... tagging again just in case, and thanks...
> 
> @Pscarb @redman
> 
> Guys any recommendations for UK gyno full gland removal?


 no mate as never needed to seek one out i don't suffer from Gyno


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## nitrogen




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## SK50

Pscarb said:


> no mate as never needed to seek one out i don't suffer from Gyno


 Thanks anyway. My main prob is with pharma HGH. 1.35iu is fine, but any more (say 2.7iu) and I get puffy nips building up with a bit of pain. Then if I squeeze them gunk (sometimes black) comes out and then they are flat again. Kinda like popping an acne. Maybe I just need to quit the HGH. Shame as I really wanted it to work as I'm hitting my mid 30s.

My geno pens are legit I'm sure, it's not HCG.

Maybe 2iu post workout or something? Or not even worth it? Or I just stick to ipam/mod....

E2 flares my gyno a bit (but not lactation) but I can control that, just wish I didn't have to eat AIs as I like high E2.

Serum prolactin is low-normal so no benefit to caber/prami. It's the synthetic HGH hitting the PRL receptors in my gyno I think (concluded this from my thread on dat's forum).



jimbo83 said:


> My gyno was egg sized according to the surgeon, I also struggled carrying fat around the chest so had quite a bit of lipo too. The whole trip to Poland etc was well worth the save in £££. It cost £2k for everything, flights, accommodation, food, taxis etc is all included in the 2k


 Egg sized... sounds way bigger than mine.

Perhaps I'm worrying about this too much. I see a very slight bit of nipple protrusion in my holiday photos when lean but thinking about it it's really not more than some of the physique guys....

The risk of nipple inversion is making think twice but I'm still going to go for a consultation. I thought it was as simple as just getting it cut out but it doesn't seem like that after all...

I will update this thread if I make progress ( I hate it when threads never get concluded)


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## swole troll

SERM's are your friend

the reduction in IGF is of minimal concern in regards to size and strength gains

and to those that are concerned with the negligible impact on gains you can run raloxifene which has near enough no effect on IGF

the other benefit of SERM's is the positive effect on cholesterol

anything over 500mg of test and i require a minimum of 1mg of arimidex if im going the AI only route

now i run tamoxifen alongside my aromasin with every blast i do

i know it doesnt help with your HGH but will keep you covered whilst on gear only

also i ran 10 weeks of tamoxifen and shrank my gyno in my left nipple to an untraceable amount

i dont know why SERM's get such a bad wrap these days for their slight impact on IGF, it didnt exactly hinder the guys back in the 70's from getting jacked

have you tried running peptides instead of HGH? could run ipam and mod grf, bit of a p1sser pinning it all the time but may help with your lactation issues whilst still getting the increase in GH


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## 3752

SK50 said:


> Thanks anyway. My main prob is with pharma HGH. 1.35iu is fine, but any more (say 2.7iu) and I get puffy nips building up with a bit of pain. Then if I squeeze them gunk (sometimes black) comes out and then they are flat again. Kinda like popping an acne. Maybe I just need to quit the HGH. Shame as I really wanted it to work as I'm hitting my mid 30s.
> 
> My geno pens are legit I'm sure, it's not HCG.
> 
> Maybe 2iu post workout or something? Or not even worth it? Or I just stick to ipam/mod....
> 
> E2 flares my gyno a bit (but not lactation) but I can control that, just wish I didn't have to eat AIs as I like high E2.
> 
> Serum prolactin is low-normal so no benefit to caber/prami. It's the synthetic HGH hitting the PRL receptors in my gyno I think (concluded this from my thread on dat's forum).


 that sounds like a prolactin issue to be fair mate have you tried Caber? are you injecting IM or SubQ? i got this when i trialled using pharma GH via IV the spike was to severe and this caused the same issue, i stopped that delivery method and it went away.


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## Archaic

SK50 said:


> I use prop as I like jabbing, takes me 30 seconds subQ frontloaded slin pin. And I found/adjusted the right dosage much quicker using prop. I could easily switch it to 200 enanthate now but I'm happy with the way it is, also that would mean a lab switch again which would complicate it all over again. Plus 50 prop eod gives me a sense of stability - probably no difference in practice but having no peaks/troughs just makes me feel good.
> 
> The endo I was considering getting it through talked about 100 EW and dismissed the whole concept of testing oestrogens so I just decided to do it myself rather than try to get DX and RX. I'm not looking for true TRT, I'm cruising in effect. I'd cruise at 300 if it didn't complicate the gyno thing more.
> 
> I did loads of T and E2 tests trying to find the sweet spot. I used to be a heavy AI user but having been dicking around with this for so long I can state with pretty high confidence that it is the AI lowering libido even in low dosage. I'm aware of the pharmacokinetic differences with males and AIs and I agree it's very hard to 'crash' estrogen, but from personal experience 1mg adex ED gives me severe knee and shoulder pains I cannot bench or squat or even sleep - I've done it many times.
> 
> Anyway, the cruise/TRT thing I have mostly under control but I would prefer no AI, but main things which aggravate my gyno is when I drink alcohol or add HGH (interaction with PRL receptors on my gyno causing lactation) which complicates my lifestyle a little.
> 
> If I can fix all this for a few grand I'll be laughing as I don't want to quit the roids and it's wasting my time.


 No way .25mg EOD Adex is killing E2 enough to have a detrimental effect on libido at 175mg Test Prop p/w mate. I've used it for years, 1mg EOD for 20 weeks when on Sust/Deca. I'm not talking from anecdotal here though, the studies are vast out there with males not running exogenous testosterone and Adex at 1mg ED. E2 suppression is no more than 48% at 8x your dose.

I'd agree with Prolactin playing a part from the other meds. If PRL is high, then it will most certainly have an impact on erections. Prami is harsh as fcuk, but the most effective Dopamine agonist out there IMO, D1,D2,D3,D4 - Be sure to taper up from 0.125mg ED though, if start high I can guarantee you'll be violently sick.

Redman, the only other guys I can think who may be able to get in touch is @Tinytom or @Nytol


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## jimbo83

swole troll said:


> SERM's are your friend
> 
> the reduction in IGF is of minimal concern in regards to size and strength gains
> 
> and to those that are concerned with the negligible impact on gains you can run raloxifene which has near enough no effect on IGF
> 
> the other benefit of SERM's is the positive effect on cholesterol
> 
> anything over 500mg of test and i require a minimum of 1mg of arimidex if im going the AI only route
> 
> now i run tamoxifen alongside my aromasin with every blast i do
> 
> i know it doesnt help with your HGH but will keep you covered whilst on gear only
> 
> also i ran 10 weeks of tamoxifen and shrank my gyno in my left nipple to an untraceable amount
> 
> i dont know why SERM's get such a bad wrap these days for their slight impact on IGF, it didnt exactly hinder the guys back in the 70's from getting jacked
> 
> have you tried running peptides instead of HGH? could run ipam and mod grf, bit of a p1sser pinning it all the time but may help with your lactation issues whilst still getting the increase in GH


 How much Tamoxifen are you running ?


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## swole troll

jimbo83 said:


> How much Tamoxifen are you running ?


 during blasts i run 20mg ED alongside 25mg of aromasin, 1mg of arimidex or 1.25mg letro (keeps my oestrodial around 40 on 800mg of test)

during a cruise i run 6.25 aromasin ED, no tamox

and when i shrank my gyno down i ran tamoxifen at 20mg ED for 2-3 months alongside 0.625 aromasin ED and 125mg of test

there is no need to ever go above the therapeutic dose of 20mg unless trying to achieve stable plasma levels asap, but really no more than 3-5 days at 40mg is needed to achieve this


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## jimbo83

swole troll said:


> during blasts i run 20mg ED alongside 25mg of aromasin, 1mg of arimidex or 1.25mg letro (keeps my oestrodial around 40 on 800mg of test)
> 
> during a cruise i run 0.625 aromasin ED, no tamox
> 
> and when i shrank my gyno down i ran tamoxifen at 20mg ED for 2-3 months alongside 0.625 aromasin ED and 125mg of test
> 
> there is no need to ever go above the therapeutic dose of 20mg unless trying to achieve stable plasma levels asap, but really no more than 3-5 days at 40mg is needed to achieve this


 0.625 aromasin? how the hell do you dose that from 25mg tabs?


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## swole troll

jimbo83 said:


> 0.625 aromasin? how the hell do you dose that from 25mg tabs?


 Cut tab into 4 and dose 1/4 per day

Edit : that should have been 6.25mg


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## jimbo83

swole troll said:


> Cut tab into 4 and dose 1/4 per day
> 
> Edit : that should have been 6.25mg


 Gotcha


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## SK50

swole troll said:


> SERM's are your friend
> 
> the reduction in IGF is of minimal concern in regards to size and strength gains
> 
> and to those that are concerned with the negligible impact on gains you can run raloxifene which has near enough no effect on IGF
> 
> the other benefit of SERM's is the positive effect on cholesterol
> 
> anything over 500mg of test and i require a minimum of 1mg of arimidex if im going the AI only route
> 
> now i run tamoxifen alongside my aromasin with every blast i do
> 
> i know it doesnt help with your HGH but will keep you covered whilst on gear only
> 
> also i ran 10 weeks of tamoxifen and shrank my gyno in my left nipple to an untraceable amount
> 
> i dont know why SERM's get such a bad wrap these days for their slight impact on IGF, it didnt exactly hinder the guys back in the 70's from getting jacked
> 
> have you tried running peptides instead of HGH? could run ipam and mod grf, bit of a p1sser pinning it all the time but may help with your lactation issues whilst still getting the increase in GH


 I have a drawer full of tamoxifen, raloxifene and toremifene. Bit of clomid too.

I agree with the concept of using SERMs to address the issue, but I have used them on / off and am convinced they impact my libido and mood. I read every thread on every roid forum and there are mixed opinions. I'd say the split is 25% of people saying they have the same issue. I can't do a double blind study on myself so can't be 100% sure. But I think serms, particularly nolva, impact it. Libido and mood are very difficult to judge being ridden with placebo. Maybe I'm wrong but I've crossed a psychological bridge where I don't like using them.

I wish we had better cheap E2 tests in the UK like those 40$ labcorp sensitive ones they do in USA.

Peptides, yes you are right, ipam/mod even 100/100 1 - 3xd does not cause as much "gyno" (Tom's, so legit). I believe this is due to the isoform structure of endogenous HGH instead of the 22kd stuff they use for synthetic which is highly attracted to prolactin receptors. So yeah it kinda solves the gyno issue, but I just don't feel that I get the same effects as a decent synthetic dosage. I've used them on/off 2 years now.


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## SK50

Pscarb said:


> that sounds like a prolactin issue to be fair mate have you tried Caber? are you injecting IM or SubQ? i got this when i trialled using pharma GH via IV the spike was to severe and this caused the same issue, i stopped that delivery method and it went away.


 I tested blood prolactin, it was low range. 130 mIU/L (86 - 324), this was on HGH with no tren or dopamine agonist back in 2015. I don't know if crushing prolactin to near zero is 1) healthy or 2) a good idea to use dopamine agonists anyway (IMO). Maybe I'll try a bit of caber with the HGH.... I binned both caber and prami months ago so I just ordered more.

I think what is really needed is a Selective Prolactin Receptor Modulator - maybe one day they'll make such a drug. Not sure the market would be very big for bodybuilders with gyno wanting to use HGH though....

I always shot it sub Q. Never IM or IV.

If the caber thing doesn't work, you reckon 2iu post workout is even worth bothering with? Or should I just stick with ipam and forget synthetic HGH ? (unless I cut out the gyno)

Thanks again


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## SK50

Archaic said:


> No way .25mg EOD Adex is killing E2 enough to have a detrimental effect on libido at 175mg Test Prop p/w mate. I've used it for years, 1mg EOD for 20 weeks when on Sust/Deca. I'm not talking from anecdotal here though, the studies are vast out there with males not running exogenous testosterone and Adex at 1mg ED. E2 suppression is no more than 48% at 8x your dose.
> 
> I'd agree with Prolactin playing a part from the other meds. If PRL is high, then it will most certainly have an impact on erections. Prami is harsh as fcuk, but the most effective Dopamine agonist out there IMO, D1,D2,D3,D4 - Be sure to taper up from 0.125mg ED though, if start high I can guarantee you'll be violently sick.
> 
> Redman, the only other guys I can think who may be able to get in touch is @Tinytom or @Nytol


 I'm going to try a bit of caber again when I get it anyway. I am really trying to minimise polypharmacy though. I'm not sure why people hammer this stuff before even testing prolactin tho.... I don't think serum prolactin is the issue, it's the synthetic HGH affinity to prolactin receptors.

I know the studies and was always a believer it's nearly impossible to 'crush' E2, but E2 (medichecks) tested < 44 pmol/L with light AI usage many times and I was exhausted, anhedonic and in a lot of joint pain. I got the symptoms before taking the tests, not after, so I didn't placebo myself into having the symptoms. Best libido was at 111 - 137. Of course this means nothing without considering T:E ratio.

Maybe I should try upping the T and playing around with AI again...

I would consider getting off the gear but it's beach season soon and I'm an addict....

Thanks


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## Growing Lad

SK50 said:


> Wow, the craters in that video are awful.... never seen anything like it. That's making me rethink this.
> 
> Who / where did you get yours done?


 Not me but check out this poor lad !


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## Archaic

SK50 said:


> I'm going to try a bit of caber again when I get it anyway. I am really trying to minimise polypharmacy though. I'm not sure why people hammer this stuff before even testing prolactin tho.... I don't think serum prolactin is the issue, it's the synthetic HGH affinity to prolactin receptors.
> 
> I know the studies and was always a believer it's nearly impossible to 'crush' E2, but E2 (medichecks) tested < 44 pmol/L with light AI usage many times and I was exhausted, anhedonic and in a lot of joint pain. I got the symptoms before taking the tests, not after, so I didn't placebo myself into having the symptoms. Best libido was at 111 - 137. Of course this means nothing without considering T:E ratio.
> 
> Maybe I should try upping the T and playing around with AI again...
> 
> I would consider getting off the gear but it's beach season soon and I'm an addict....
> 
> Thanks


 There are so many factors that can affect libido. I've been on a gram p/w Test with zero libido, and then further down the line I've cruised on 250mg and felt filthy.

With me I'm pretty sure it's psychological, stress, over analysing etc. As a result, introducing a drug does have an immediate effect. Partly placebo, but more so because I know what it's going to do on a chemical level.

Pop 25mg Cialis EOD, it won't make you feel horny, but science will put your d1ck up on stimulus command. That may in turn make you feel more like yourself after a few good fcuks.

WildCat do 50x tab tubs.


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## SK50

Archaic said:


> There are so many factors that can affect libido. I've been on a gram p/w Test with zero libido, and then further down the line I've cruised on 250mg and felt filthy.
> 
> With me I'm pretty sure it's psychological, stress, over analysing etc. As a result, introducing a drug does have an immediate effect. Partly placebo, but more so because I know what it's going to do on a chemical level.
> 
> Pop 25mg Cialis EOD, it won't make you feel horny, but science will put your d1ck up on stimulus command. That may in turn make you feel more like yourself after a few good fcuks.
> 
> WildCat do 50x tab tubs.


 I usually run 5mg cialis ED (pharma, ADC sent me 2 shipments of 200 tabs each by mistake lol) for BP and BPH (self prescribed). Any higher or I get red face. When my AAS hormones are in check libido is distractingly high even in inappropriate circumstances. I get stuck in my car unable to get out cause of a fat hardon, even without a female in sight. * (TOO MUCH INFO, I KNOW, sorry)*

Also I get ED which coincides with all of this if an attempt is made.

AIs and SERMs seem to kill all of this, even with stimulus. Catch 22 as I kinda need them for my gyno.

Off gear or correctly dialling in TRT (unlikely with a UK endo IMO) is the ideal method I think. But I'll probably try upping the T first knowing me. That's why it's useful for me to use prop until I optimise this.

For now I'm going to continue to attempt to dial it in, maybe get bloods on those 'lucky' days then try to match that in future. HGH stops from now on until I get further advice.

Thanks again


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## jimbo83

Growing Lad said:


> Not me but check out this poor lad !
> 
> View attachment 123830


 Looks like Dr Frankenstein did this!


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## Growing Lad

jimbo83 said:


> Looks like Dr Frankenstein did this!


 Terrible dr. Butchered. Gota have had pec cut out too surely

and the incision!?


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## jimbo83

Growing Lad said:


> Terrible dr. Butchered. Gota have had pec cut out too surely
> 
> and the incision!?


 He will need to have a fat filler to balance that out, incision looks like a home DIY job, they should have gone around the edge of the areola


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