# Burning Fat with Zero Cardio



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Is this possible?

I know there are a number of supplements available (albeit illegal) that accelerate fat loss but would it be possible to take a stack of supplements that will get your body fat percentage much lower without doing any cardiovascular training?

Science in your answers please.

Relax, I am just asking out of interest, it's not something i'd advocate.


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

gastrict band


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

yes it is more than possible, chuck in enough test, tren, hgh, fat burners such as DNP and clen and no reason why cardio should be anything more than sex several times a day!

Just depends how health conscious you are.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

for some it is possible not to use fat burning supplements do no cardio and still shed fat......eat less than your expend


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> for some it is possible not to use fat burning supplements do no cardio and still shed fat......eat less than your expend


Chances of catabolism are high in this instance though right Pscarb if gear is not used and calories are low?


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## madmuscles (Mar 10, 2011)

The holy grail is called "irisin"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9008953/New-pill-that-helps-you-to-stay-fit-without-exercise.html


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

stedebs24 said:


> Starvation.


I believe I stated a "supplement" so your attempt at comedy has embarrassingly failed, otherwise I am sure it would have been hilarious.

Yes, catabolism is also a major issue that I forgot to place in my question.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> yes it is more than possible, chuck in enough test, tren, hgh, fat burners such as DNP and clen


Ok, but I think the fat loss you're talking about here naturally occurs when you're dead


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

madmuscles said:


> The holy grail is called "irisin"
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9008953/New-pill-that-helps-you-to-stay-fit-without-exercise.html


Let's hope it's not like "Allie" which causes you to sh!t away your fat, sometimes in public which was commonly refered to as "the allie oops"


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Regarding catabolism I think it would depend on how low (bf) you wanted to go.


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## VeNuM (Aug 14, 2011)

Chaparell Labs Shredded mass is working wonders for me


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Yep, I did it, purely because I fcuking hate cardio.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

never do cardio, not even when prepping for a show.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Dux said:


> Yep, I did it, purely because I fcuking hate cardio.


Details on your cycle please.



Ts23 said:


> never do cardio, not even when prepping for a show.


Details on your cycle please.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

rectus said:


> Details on your cycle please.
> 
> Details on your cycle please.


abit of test, tren, mast, dbol, slin, gh, clen, t3.


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## madmuscles (Mar 10, 2011)

rectus said:


> Let's hope it's not like "Allie" which causes you to sh!t away your fat, sometimes in public which was commonly refered to as "the allie oops"


Lol, have a read of this and the comments at the bottom and you'll er...be sh*tting yourself with laughter

http://www.poopreport.com/Consumer/alli_side_effects.html

Sounds like it would be great for constipation though.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ts23 said:


> abit of test, tren, mast, dbol, slin, gh, clen, t3.


Wow, you are a hardcore juicer! Nice to meet you haha.

Do you think you need all of that for losing the bodyfat or are there some items in your cycle that you could cut out and still reap the same benefits?


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

rectus said:


> Wow, you are a hardcore juicer! Nice to meet you haha.
> 
> Do you think you need all of that for losing the bodyfat or are there some items in your cycle that you could cut out and still reap the same benefits?


all of it and just run test.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

madmuscles said:


> Lol, have a read of this and the comments at the bottom and you'll er...be sh*tting yourself with laughter
> 
> http://www.poopreport.com/Consumer/alli_side_effects.html
> 
> Sounds like it would be great for constipation though.


hahahaha I had to stop reading it, it was hurting my face.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

rectus said:


> Wow, you are a hardcore juicer! Nice to meet you haha.
> 
> Do you think you need all of that for losing the bodyfat or are there some items in your cycle that you could cut out and still reap the same benefits?


thats pretty standard stuff mate,

One rip, an oral, a couple of fat burners of type and gh.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ts23 said:


> all of it and just run test.


Oh really? At what doseage would you say?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> thats pretty standard stuff mate,
> 
> One rip, an oral, a couple of fat burners of type and gh.


Ah yes, good ol' HGH. Out of most peoples price range if you want to take it at a proper dose. I am on it but at 2iu which is probably pointless but it's all I could afford. I don't know how people afford to do it for 6 months @ 8iu.

I am on PHD Lean Degree Fat Burners, are these over-the-shelf burners what you refer to or is there a under-the-counter type?


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

rectus said:


> Ah yes, good ol' HGH. Out of most peoples price range if you want to take it at a proper dose. I am on it but at 2iu which is probably pointless but it's all I could afford. *I don't know how people afford to do it for 6 months @ 8iu.*
> 
> I am on PHD Lean Degree Fat Burners, are these over-the-shelf burners what you refer to or is there a under-the-counter type?


buy a couple of boxes, sell one for more than you brought it...repeat 

or do overtime at work like me 

5iu EOD for me. About to run out though 

Mrs' forbids me to get more till payday the bitch (ill just get it and not tell her  )


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

rectus said:


> Oh really? At what doseage would you say?


500mg is plenty.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> buy a couple of boxes, sell one for more than you brought it...repeat
> 
> or do overtime at work like me
> 
> ...


Have you noticed anything on 5iu?

So One-Rip, that's a blend is it? Is it a brand name? Just so I know what to search for.


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

keep protein high enough & muscle loss shouldn't be an issue TBH

Clas in vs out still applies cardio or not


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

rectus said:


> Have you noticed anything on 5iu?
> 
> So One-Rip, that's a blend is it? Is it a brand name? Just so I know what to search for.


One rip is a prochem test prop, tren ace and mast prop blend mate.

Having done my cycle and diet the same before without gh, i can def say the gh (this time added) speeds up fat loss no end. I was doing 5iu everyday of GH mate and effects were obv even more pronounced then. Also, i wake up very fresh everyday and have now trained 18 days on the trot, cardio session at 6.30am everyday and weights for about 1 hour every night. Dont feel overtrained in the slightest either tbh


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> Chances of catabolism are high in this instance though right Pscarb if gear is not used and calories are low?


not really in fact many do not fully understand catabolism, they get smaller and shout loss of muscle when really they really was that fat......



stedebs24 said:


> Starvation.


wrong, if you starve your body will eat the muscle and retain fat so you will weigh less but look the same a simple example of this is most average women when they want to lose fat they stop eating.....end result is they weigh less but still look soft.



Ts23 said:


> never do cardio, not even when prepping for a show.


please do not take this the wrong way mate.....but looking at your Avi do you think that putting in as little as 30min cardio 5 x week when prepping you would have more condition in your legs etc.....Lewis Breed did no cardio when he won the Junior British title and he did not need to and won that title with ease in my opinion, last year Lewis told me he put cardio in from the start (nothing much) and was glad he did as he could eat more and improve his conditioning (plainly seen at the UKBFF finals last year as he placed a well deserved 3rd place) i personally do not believe that any competitor can achieve the ultimate in condition without cardio when prepping, the simple fact is that if you do some cardio you can eat more food so are bigger whilst improving your condition vastly.......i have seen far to many guys brag they can compete with no cardio yet they don't win?? just imagine what they could achieve if they did do cardio.......


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Agreed pscarb, main reason i do cardio is so i can eat more! Without the extra food (even with the fact its being burnt), i dont think i could take it mentally (not that i can anyway :lol: )


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## chambers9k (May 2, 2011)

Surely just running 500cal deficit to your b.m.r would drop fat?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

chambers9k said:


> Surely just running 500cal deficit to your b.m.r would drop fat?


it should but then it is rare anyone knows what they eat so to drop 500cals per day.....you ask anyguy on here how much they eat and the average (not always) anser that comes back is x amount of calories but then ask them if they weigh there food.....the answer is NO.....so how the fukc do you know your eating X amount of calories?? and if you do not know this how can your drop 500cals?


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## Mr Brown (Mar 20, 2007)

Keto, T3 and clen.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> it should but then it is rare anyone knows what they eat so to drop 500cals per day.....you ask anyguy on here how much they eat and the average (not always) anser that comes back is x amount of calories but then ask them if they weigh there food.....the answer is NO.....so how the fukc do you know your eating X amount of calories?? and if you do not know this how can your drop 500cals?


16 eggs, 6 whole

2 sccops of whey

225g rice (uncooked)

1kg chicken (uncooked)

12g fish oils

too much veg....

surely im not the only one who knows exactly what they eat? anyone dieting would surely know....SURELY!!!!


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

I record every gram of food and every kcal unless i'ver not cooked it, then I give it my best estimate.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Change your life from mass= don't run-walk,don't walk-stand,don't stand-sit,don't sit-lye,don't lye-sleep to the exact reverse and be a little more active in all you do,couple this with a smaller spud,less oats etc than normal and you will lose weight unless you are daft!It has always done ok by me,though i have never been a bodybuilder,but when i want to i can clean up ok(not sure now i am gettin near the big 50!lol)


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> 16 eggs, 6 whole
> 
> 2 sccops of whey
> 
> ...


i never said everyone there will always be some that does but we have over 50k members i would bet the majority do not know what they eat..

so your diet is (miniscule amounts of carbs and fats in shake not considered)

350g Protein

175g Carbs

42g of Fat

how come so low on both fats and carbs?? what do you have PWO??


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Some good info in here. I like the idea of being able to pin myself with One-Rip (or whatever the equivallent in another brand is) and lose body fat while I continue my bulking. I personally do cardio 5x a week in the fat burning zone.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

rectus said:


> Some good info in here. I like the idea of being able to pin myself with One-Rip (or whatever the equivallent in another brand is) and lose body fat while I continue my bulking. I personally do cardio 5x a week in the fat burning zone.


It's not that simple mate, there's a very fine line between being able to burn fat and build muscle at the same time, especially if you're already pretty lean.

I'm gonna use OneRip at the end of my cycle, low carb with DNP to cut up, but I'm not expecting to add any mass whilst doing it.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> not really in fact many do not fully understand catabolism, they get smaller and shout loss of muscle when really they really was that fat......
> 
> wrong, if you starve your body will eat the muscle and retain fat so you will weigh less but look the same a simple example of this is most average women when they want to lose fat they stop eating.....end result is they weigh less but still look soft.
> 
> please do not take this the wrong way mate.....but looking at your Avi do you think that putting in as little as 30min cardio 5 x week when prepping you would have more condition in your legs etc.....Lewis Breed did no cardio when he won the Junior British title and he did not need to and won that title with ease in my opinion, last year Lewis told me he put cardio in from the start (nothing much) and was glad he did as he could eat more and improve his conditioning (plainly seen at the UKBFF finals last year as he placed a well deserved 3rd place) i personally do not believe that any competitor can achieve the ultimate in condition without cardio when prepping, the simple fact is that if you do some cardio you can eat more food so are bigger whilst improving your condition vastly.......i have seen far to many guys brag they can compete with no cardio yet they don't win?? just imagine what they could achieve if they did do cardio.......


iv been coming in 2nd and 3rd in all my comps mate, i get told to leave cardio out so i just do as the boss says.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i never said everyone there will always be some that does but we have over 50k members i would bet the majority do not know what they eat..
> 
> so your diet is (miniscule amounts of carbs and fats in shake not considered)
> 
> ...


I take about 150g carbs on non workout days. 200 on workout days. 85g of fats. Yes all measured! Not as High as some, but not on the juice either


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## JTgymstuff (Dec 30, 2011)

dont eat carbs then its possible. i lost 12 pounds in 3 weeks by eating a low carb diet, weight training 4 x weeks and had 1 cheat day on a sunday.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I dont like the idea of using supplements to do what you need to do to lose weight.

If you just diet alone yes fat loss will happen, but also muscle loss, and you will kind of be the same person only smaller.

Now, if you lift weights and diet, more muscle will be spared.

No weights and you drop the calories, the body will try and save its fat stores for survival.

Over time, the loss of muscle will require less calories to maintain said lost muscle.

So, as you can see this is counterproductive.

Idea is to stimulate the muscle to keep the muscle, while having a reduction in calories, this will offer a better to fat loss to muscle loss.

Many stimulants can cause rapid heart rate, and over time adrenal fatigue.

If you only have so much time to go to the gym, lift weights, fat loss from weight lifting can happen for up to 3 days from resistance training, not so with cardio.

I know a guy that did tons of cardio and lost muscle.


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## Tombo (Feb 21, 2009)

Get on the bloody treadmill!


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## leeds_01 (Aug 6, 2008)

imo its entirely possible to burn fat with zero cardio - up to a certain point maybe


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It is totally possible to lose fat doing zero cardio, but I would have resistance training in there to keep the muscle.


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## Readyandwaiting (Mar 20, 2011)

weight training is better at burning fat off imo along with a good diet, cardio is like a bonus too to fine tune yourself


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ts23 said:


> iv been coming in 2nd and 3rd in all my comps mate, i get told to leave cardio out so i just do as the boss says.


it was not a dig mate at all.......



Mey said:


> I take about 150g carbs on non workout days. 200 on workout days. 85g of fats. Yes all measured! Not as High as some, but not on the juice either


mydiet does not change on or off the "Juice" i dont see any reason why it should to be fair? you say about 150g on workout days if you weigh and measure your food why is it about 150g?


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> it was not a dig mate at all.......
> 
> mydiet does not change on or off the "Juice" i dont see any reason why it should to be fair? you say about 150g on workout days if you weigh and measure your food why is it about 150g?


do you strongly believe i would come in in better condition and the same size with 3x 20 min cardio sessions a week say 12 weeks out mate ?


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> it was not a dig mate at all.......
> 
> mydiet does not change on or off the "Juice" i dont see any reason why it should to be fair? you say about 150g on workout days if you weigh and measure your food why is it about 150g?


i didnt take it as a dig mate, i like your opinions and knowledge.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> it was not a dig mate at all.......
> 
> mydiet does not change on or off the "Juice" i dont see any reason why it should to be fair? you say about 150g on workout days if you weigh and measure your food why is it about 150g?


Oh does it not? From what I gathered people increase their protein intake on steroids, or their food intake in general. Thought you could process more. Obviously this isn't the case then seeing as you've just question it, and you're a user.

It's 150g. I don't count fruit or veg towards my carb intake, bananas etc. but IF you did, it wouldn't be "150g" it be slightly more, which is why I said "about".


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ts23 said:


> do you strongly believe i would come in in better condition and the same size with 3x 20 min cardio sessions a week say 12 weeks out mate ?


i do mate as you would be able to eat more calories and use less potential catabolic drugs lie Clen etc......the macro's would need to be altered but it would work.....

a good friend of mine down here in the West country never did cardio i mean never and was always the most shredded guy in his class (placing top 6 at the NABBA Finals 2010) although he did not need cardio to get shredded he placed in 3 x 30min sessions per week and not only was he bigger come show day he had better lines in his quads/hams/glutes......cardio is boring and it is certainly the chore of any prep i should know i need to do 5 x 30-45min per week from the start sometimes going much higher, i do think that everyone can benefit from it though even if you are not more shredded but you have deeper seperation in your lower half and that your much fuller that must be worth it??


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mey said:


> Oh does it not? From what I gathered people increase their protein intake on steroids, or their food intake in general. Thought you could process more. Obviously this isn't the case then seeing as you've just question it, and you're a user..


a user for 22yrs......my protein is 350g per day every day on cycle or not.....



Mey said:


> It's 150g. I don't count fruit or veg towards my carb intake, bananas etc. but IF you did, it wouldn't be "150g" it be slightly more, which is why I said "about" .


hey mate thats cool but you said it is all measured so hence the confusion.....


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> i do mate as you would be able to eat more calories and use less potential catabolic drugs lie Clen etc......the macro's would need to be altered but it would work.....
> 
> a good friend of mine down here in the West country never did cardio i mean never and was always the most shredded guy in his class (placing top 6 at the NABBA Finals 2010) although he did not need cardio to get shredded he placed in 3 x 30min sessions per week and not only was he bigger come show day he had better lines in his quads/hams/glutes......cardio is boring and it is certainly the chore of any prep i should know i need to do 5 x 30-45min per week from the start sometimes going much higher, i do think that everyone can benefit from it though even if you are not more shredded but you have deeper seperation in your lower half and that your much fuller that must be worth it??


most definetly mate, so you think 3x 20 mins on the tred mill would be sufficient?? i'v been advised to stay away from cardio as he thinks i will come in alot smaller than if i added cardio but i always say im up to try new things to get were i want to be thx for the input mate.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Tombo said:


> Get on the bloody treadmill!


You've completely missed the point of this thread. Go back to the beginning and start again.



JTgymstuff said:


> dont eat carbs then its possible. i lost 12 pounds in 3 weeks by eating a low carb diet, weight training 4 x weeks and had 1 cheat day on a sunday.


I find it very easy to cut carbs, and I don't have a huge amount now (though it has increased recently while I bulk).



Ts23 said:


> most definetly mate, so you think 3x 20 mins on the tred mill would be sufficient?? i'v been advised to stay away from cardio as he thinks i will come in alot smaller than if i added cardio but i always say im up to try new things to get were i want to be thx for the input mate.


Cardio at that level isn't going to do your muscle any harm, it's very tame.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

rectus said:


> You've completely missed the point of this thread. Go back to the beginning and start again.
> 
> I find it very easy to cut carbs, and I don't have a huge amount now (though it has increased recently while I bulk).
> 
> Cardio at that level isn't going to do your muscle any harm, it's very tame.


When your prepping for a show and your calories are low and carbs are low i would say different.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ts23 said:


> When your prepping for a show and your calories are low and carbs are low i would say different.


Well you would know better than I. So you are saying you would have hardly any energy to train cardio?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Interesting thoughts Paul.

I know lots of guys swear by it.

I have never done a show, I did modify my macro's by using the Zone method of 40/30/30, protein/carbs/fats, and was losing well.

When I did cardio I lost too much weight during the week.

Very structured diet and I got the leanest I have ever been in my life and at the time I was 37 years old, held the most muscle too.

It kind of does make sense about the separation though.

I would think varying things would be helpful too like, chopping wood, pushing a wheel barrel full around the place, pushing a car, tire flipping, running on sand, stuff like that would be nice.

Some of the stuff Rickson Gracie is pretty crazy yet functional.


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

DNP.

Ask Clubber Lang, Cu.nt is ripped all year round and never does any cardio


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ts23 said:


> most definetly mate, so you think 3x 20 mins on the tred mill would be sufficient?? i'v been advised to stay away from cardio as he thinks i will come in alot smaller than if i added cardio but i always say im up to try new things to get were i want to be thx for the input mate.


You need to follow what your coach tells you as with your metabolism it is only worthwhile with manipulation of macros, if you do not raise your food then it will burn muscle over time but that is the point you get to eat more food whilst getting leaner, this has a nice side effect of keeping you full and strong.......


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## slimmer11 (Jan 15, 2012)

I lost loads of weight when I done a really low calorie diet. And I didn't exercise once! Just cut down your calories. Thats what I done anyway


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Irish Beast said:


> DNP.
> 
> Ask Clubber Lang, Cu.nt is ripped all year round and never does any cardio


LMAO. DNP sounds frightening to me.



slimmer11 said:


> I lost loads of weight when I done a really low calorie diet. And I didn't exercise once! Just cut down your calories. Thats what I done anyway


And you're looking good for it   I was on a very low cal diet (for a man) while I was doing strength training (5x5) but that was no good. Some people are just better at losing fat than others I guess.


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## slimmer11 (Jan 15, 2012)

rectus said:


> LMAO. DNP sounds frightening to me.
> 
> And you're looking good for it   I was on a very low cal diet (for a man) while I was doing strength training (5x5) but that was no good. Some people are just better at losing fat than others I guess.


Thanks :thumb: I went through one summer eating 600 a day which was stupid, but the weight just fell off me, then recently done 800 - 900 a day and it just fell off then too. ye I suppose. Why not try Weight Watchers?? haha thats what im doing atm, alot of people on this forum prob think its an awful diet, but i avoid carbs. :sad:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

slimmer11 said:


> Thanks :thumb: I went through one summer eating 600 a day which was stupid, but the weight just fell off me, then recently done 800 - 900 a day and it just fell off then too. ye I suppose. Why not try Weight Watchers?? haha thats what im doing atm, alot of people on this forum prob think its an awful diet, but i avoid carbs. :sad:


600! That sounds...unhealthy. Weight Watchers and Slimming World are good for people who are obese, but are a waste of time for those who want to lower their body fat without touching muscle. It's easier to lose weight when you're obese, but when you get down to that stubborn fat it definitely gets more complex. The only carbs I have really are oats, and wholegrain spaggheti which I will cut out if I ever do decide to take the route of a illegal enhancement for maximum gains.


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## slimmer11 (Jan 15, 2012)

Yeah it was, I don't even know how i done it tbh. Ye your right there, but I don't know how to go around any other diets. I become stuck! Someone would have to write me up a diet plan lol. Im gonna try and get some T5's, in the mean time whilst I try and get the T5's Ive started taking the pro plus x3, chest eze x 1, and 1 x asprin. And I'm not too sure if its started to work yet. But Im going to keep taking them for now just too see if theres any results!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

slimmer11 said:


> Yeah it was, I don't even know how i done it tbh. Ye your right there, but I don't know how to go around any other diets. I become stuck! Someone would have to write me up a diet plan lol. Im gonna try and get some T5's, in the mean time whilst I try and get the T5's Ive started taking the pro plus x3, chest eze x 1, and 1 x asprin. And I'm not too sure if its started to work yet. But Im going to keep taking them for now just too see if theres any results!


if you are making your own up then you need 3 x as much caffiene than Eph i think i though chest eeze where 8mg?? so you only need just over 1 pro plus....

the problem with very low cal diets is that they cannot be sustained long term so at some point you will go back to eating more cals and that is when the problem of Yo Yo dieting appears......avoiding carbs is a well tried method but again issues will arise when you start to eat carbs again maybe carb timing or cycling would be a better option?? but in saying all that you are looking good for what ever you are doing.....


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

slimmer11 said:


> Yeah it was, I don't even know how i done it tbh. Ye your right there, but I don't know how to go around any other diets. I become stuck! Someone would have to write me up a diet plan lol. Im gonna try and get some T5's, in the mean time whilst I try and get the T5's Ive started taking the pro plus x3, chest eze x 1, and 1 x asprin. And I'm not too sure if its started to work yet. But Im going to keep taking them for now just too see if theres any results!


Well good luck with that concoction, and send me the photos


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> if you are making your own up then you need 3 x as much caffiene than Eph i think i though chest eeze where 8mg?? so you only need just over 1 pro plus....
> 
> the problem with very low cal diets is that they cannot be sustained long term so at some point you will go back to eating more cals and that is when the problem of Yo Yo dieting appears......avoiding carbs is a well tried method but again issues will arise when you start to eat carbs again maybe carb timing or cycling would be a better option?? but in saying all that you are looking good for what ever you are doing.....


I think they are 18mg mate plus 30mg of caffeine as well if I remember correctly. I have always run 1:10:4. This works out as slimmer has said 1 chesteze (18mh eph and 30mg caff), 3 pro plus (50mg each - 150mg) and a junior aspirin (75mg) and that comes out at almost bang on 1:10:4.

What proportions do you normally run E:C:A, as am genuinely interested? :thumb:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> I think they are 18mg mate plus 30mg of caffeine as well if I remember correctly. I have always run 1:10:4. This works out as slimmer has said 1 chesteze (18mh eph and 30mg caff), 3 pro plus (50mg each - 150mg) and a junior aspirin (75mg) and that comes out at almost bang on 1:10:4.
> 
> What proportions do you normally run E:C:A, as am genuinely interested? :thumb:


absolutely correct! 1:10:4 or 1:10:3 are the only ratios to use for ECA stack


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Strictly Clean diet, high protein, low in carbs.

Low dose test to avoid catabolism.

Sorted.

Throw in t3s, clen, dnp etc to speed process up if you want.

Or....buy menshealth, I'm sure they guaranteed a chiselled 6-pack in 4 weeks?


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## BatemanLondon (Jun 14, 2011)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> thats pretty standard stuff mate,
> 
> One rip, an oral, a couple of fat burners of type and *gh*.


how much GH would you need for it to be considered as a fat burner ?

I have run 5 days on and 2 off at 4 iu's daily for a long period of time and at that level i dont consider it to be a quality fat burner...


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> absolutely correct! 1:10:4 or 1:10:3 are the only ratios to use for ECA stack


Glad you have that view as well mate, I have seen a few people claiming 1:10:10, which seems very hight for aspirin to me.

:thumb:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

DiggyV said:


> I think they are 18mg mate plus 30mg of caffeine as well if I remember correctly. I have always run 1:10:4. This works out as slimmer has said 1 chesteze (18mh eph and 30mg caff), 3 pro plus (50mg each - 150mg) and a junior aspirin (75mg) and that comes out at almost bang on 1:10:4.
> 
> What proportions do you normally run E:C:A, as am genuinely interested? :thumb:


your bang on mate i have no clue what i was on about i cannot even think where i got the 3 x figure from......


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BatemanLondon said:


> how much GH would you need for it to be considered as a fat burner ?
> 
> I have run 5 days on and 2 off at 4 iu's daily for a long period of time and at that level i dont consider it to be a quality fat burner...


Agree- I've run up to 12iu for months.. 6iu for months etc, never did anything until I ran F**K of diet... and then it was the diet, DNP,T3,T4,clen, ECA that did the work... GH i ran (and still do in my 2nd year on) at 2iu/day purely for the anti aging and joint health...



DiggyV said:


> Glad you have that view as well mate, I have seen a few people claiming 1:10:10, which seems very hight for aspirin to me.
> 
> :thumb:


yeah.. that much aspirin- nose bleeds waiting to happen...never have a stroke I guess... prob bleed to death just from a shaving cut though...


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