# am i skinny fat or just plain skinny? + training/diet help!



## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

Hi everyone basically ive recently come back to training (about 17 weeks ago) after a while off due to illness, i lost a hell of alot of weight (including muscle!) and came back to training looking and feeling sick & weak :cursing:

now since being back ive been on stronglifts 5x5 to try and build some strength before moving onto HST or similar

I really want to pack on muscle but avoid putting on fat so i decided to lean bulk

my stats are

age -20

weight 69kg

height 6'3

so i started training and progressing well, cleaned up my diet and started eating more, (before i started training again i was averaging on 1300-1450 cals a day!)

i bumped it up to 2000/2300 on non-wo/wo days

i didnt gain any weight so 6 weeks ago i bumped my intake upto 2500 everyday,

at least 170g protein

roughly 300g carbs

and ive gained rougly 0.6lb a week so i think this calorie level is good for me at the moment as im not back at uni yet so not that active during the days apart from gym!

ive added some pics here to see if anyone can tell me if im skinny fat or just skinny and also possibly guess bf%

also i know my diets far far far from perfect! but its not as bad as it could be for e.g. heres todays diet (im not having the usual 6 meals a day atm as im not back at uni yet so i prefer to graze on little bits throughout the whole day  )

*breakfast*

30g whey water

50g oats (porridge with water water) frozen berries

apple

EPA fish oil

kcal- 318

fat-5

carb-35

pro-30

*snack*

chicken salad pitta

kcal- 198

fat-8

carb-29

pro-13

*lunch*

beans reduced salt sugar

burgen bread x 1

kcal- 325

fat-4

carb-45

pro-25

*snack*

cyclone protein bar

kcal- 215

fat-6

carb-13

pro-23

*dinner *

chicken pepper onion

pitta bread

epa fish oil

kcal- 321

fat-9

carb-35

pro-33

*snack*

musli 50g

milk 170g

kcal- 270

fat-14

carb-34

pro-7

2 x boiled eggs

kcal- 173

fat-12

carb-1

pro-14

totals = cals - 1967 fat-59 carbs-199 pro-149

(ill try and eat another 500 kcal before bed!)

so any advice or input on my routine/diet/pics/life? 

also im still on prednisolone for my illness, which is a corticosteroid which i belive is catabolic :cursing: just a shot in the dark but has anyone been on these and gained muscle?


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

damnn can somone make those pics smaller?


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## Scrappy (May 5, 2008)

Alryt mate, if size is your aim you need more in your diet, 3-4 solid meals, and the 2-3 shakes inbetween, try makin ur own weight gainer, whey oats p.butter banana i used to take, tasted gud.


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Where is this fat you speak of?


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, i do make a weight gainer when im out and about but do my calories seem alright? i mean for a lean bulk does 0.6lb gained a week sound ok?

ive gone from 67.2 to 69 in 6 weeks, i dont wanna put on fat and have to go on a cut


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

LloydOfGrimsby said:


> Where is this fat you speak of?


lol soz mate its from the side but it only let me upload 5 pics, gimmie 2 mins ill upload one now


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Up your calorie intake by about 600-1000 ..... Ditch maximuscle products, they're just ripping you off. 4-6 solid meals a day and you'll be adding some serious lean muscle to your frame.

Im astonished you've managed to gain on the calories you have atm.

Have a browse through the gaining weight section, you'll learn a lot in 10 minutes.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

heres some of the 'fat' pics!


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

ive read loads mate, but i seem to be gaining 0.6~lb a week so just over 2lb a month, isnt this the most a natty should aim to gain? i dont wanna up my calories and gain more fat but the same amount of muscle as i am now


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## medici999 (May 26, 2009)

try at least 3000calories..nutrisport chocolate protein is great value!! check it out.


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

At the beginning you'll gain muscle at a seemingly un-natural rate. You deffo need to up the protein intake.. the old 1-2 grams of protein per lb of lean body weight. Also you can miraculously lose fat and gain muscle when you start out, very handy indeed. Furthermore , eating more will increase your metabolism. And looking at your pics mate the only reason it looks like it does is cause there's not much muscle mass there, it's also a very hard place to lose fat.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers everyone for your input! cheers medici i love nutrisport choc! got 5kg of it 

@LloydOfGrimsby thanks alot mate, so you say bump up the cals to around 3000? and i only weigh 159lb inc bf, i aim for at least 170( nearly always more) protein a day

ive been hitting my workouts hard aswell so dissapointed with results  im squatting 90+kg and deadding 90+! aswell


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## godsgifttoearth (Jul 28, 2009)

ur just skinny mate. ur not fat. add 20lbs to ur frame in a year or so, and you'll look amazing. feking skinny people


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

lol i would love to add 20lbs of lean muscle mate! does gaining roughly 2lb a month sound like the best way to do this though? i used to be alot bigger(fatter) and wasnt happy, now i think ive gone to the opposite and still not happy! so thats why i really dont wanna get fat as i think it will just result in me yo-yoing between fat and skinny (never getting ripped!)


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## godsgifttoearth (Jul 28, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> lol i would love to add 20lbs of lean muscle mate! does gaining roughly 2lb a month sound like the best way to do this though? i used to be alot bigger(fatter) and wasnt happy, now i think ive gone to the opposite and still not happy! so thats why i really dont wanna get fat as i think it will just result in me yo-yoing between fat and skinny (never getting ripped!)


if you want to do this the best way. you will unfortunately add some fat. not a lot. but some.

this happens because you have to eat excess of calories to gain weight. you cant put on weight without increasing ur intake. dont go mental tho, this reduces the impact. work out how many calories/day you require day to day at ur current weight. add 500cals to that number. get in loads of protein. once you get to the size you want. then take 6weeks to cut slowly. so you take 500cals from ur daily cal requirements. you tehn repeat the bulk and cut till you reach the size and fat you want. tehn you just eat regulation cals.

getting ripped is very hard. its much easier if you have a lot of muscle. adding muscle is easiest when u eat hard, and train hard. once you get ripped, its still a full time job maintaining it. its a lifestyle choice, not a hobby you can do when u feel like it. being ripped will take over ur life. this is why a lot of guys chose to go for the big and muscular with around 13-15% bf. its easier to maintain.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, when i chose to eat 2500 kcal a day i did work out my maintainance, factored in my activity and added 300-500 to gain muscle and thats where i got 2500 from,

ive gained on 2500 in the last 6 weeks, but weather these are just newbie gains i dont know, so does it sound ok to keep eating as i am (and gaining around 0.5lb a week) until my gains slow/stop and then bump it up to around 2750 and see if i start gaining again?


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## godsgifttoearth (Jul 28, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers mate, when i chose to eat 2500 kcal a day i did work out my maintainance, factored in my activity and added 300-500 to gain muscle and thats where i got 2500 from,
> 
> ive gained on 2500 in the last 6 weeks, but weather these are just newbie gains i dont know, so does it sound ok to keep eating as i am (and gaining around 0.5lb a week) until my gains slow/stop and then bump it up to around 2750 and see if i start gaining again?


yeah u can do it like that if you want. or you can do it on a weekly weight basis.

if you have just started out, all gains are newbie gains. dont think theyre any less of an achievement. you still have to lift the weights and eat the food.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate so i think i will stick to 2500 everyday and train hard, and keep my diet as clean as possible! then when my weight gain slows i will bump it up by 250 and keep doing this for a while until i feel im a decent size and then maybe do a little cut (-500 cals a day) if i think ive gained too much fat

hopefully that will workout for me! apart from that do you think i should stick with stronglifts? i really want to get bigger but i decided to do stronglifts to get my strength up first so i can actually lift a decent weight to gain muscle! lol


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Honestly mate, upping the calories is the way to go  ..... 3000 and you'll be cruising, im currently eating 7 meals a day and about 4000-4500 calories. Had a half year break from the gym, got back into it, upped the calories and my lifts are better than they used to be. And my abs are coming through at the same time:thumb:

Btw you are having a sugary drink after the gym right? then whey 15 mins after?


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers everyone for your input! cheers medici i love nutrisport choc! got 5kg of it
> 
> @LloydOfGrimsby thanks alot mate, so *you say bump up the cals to around 3000? and i only weigh 159lb inc bf, i aim for at least 170( nearly always more) protein a day*
> 
> ive been hitting my workouts hard aswell so dissapointed with results  im squatting 90+kg and deadding 90+! aswell


Oh yeah i forgot... ectomorphs burn calories like madonna goes through african children. Did this calculation take into account your genetically enhanced metabolism?


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

wow Lloyd do you go low carb or anything? and do you try and stick to a set diet? or just eat pro/low gi carbs every 3 hours? see im just worried that if i go too high on the cals too quick ill get fat! its stupid i know but i know that if i think ive gotten fat ill go on a cut and end up worse than i started! 

and yea i currently havent got dex/maltrose so i try and have something sugary PWO but i normally have it with whey and creatine! should i have it 20mins before my protein/creatine?


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

If the carbs you're eating (other than the malto pwo) are low GI you should be fine ... try adding some good fats to your diet to up the calories a lil'. Just try it for a few weeks honestly, you'll see the difference and also you'll feel revved up in the gym.

And as for the malto pwo ... i would say have it right after the workout and then the protein 10-15 mins after. Give your muscles time to store the malto as glycogen or else they wont start repairing as efficiently when the fast acting whey comes around, otherwise you'll be sh!tting the rest out and we all know how expensive whey is these days, a better investment than gold atm.


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## noturbo (Oct 27, 2006)

Jeez man theres no fat on you atall so stop worrying, like people have said up the calories a bit. Try 3000 for a few weeks, keep workouts intense, get lots of rest and see where you are!


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate ur advice is great! i never knew that about Post workout and just had it altogether! ive started eating the yolks of my eggs (had 4 today), nuts and olive oil aswell

strange q -

ive got about 350kcal to eat before i go bed today, so would you reccomend some protein powder mixed into porridge, or olive oil(or cheese)?

currently ive had = 71g of fat 201 carbs 164 protein


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, so stick with stonglifts for now yea? i went on a temporary routine this week due to my knee hurting! (and i think squatting 3 times this week woulda killed it!) lol


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

I'd steer away from carbs after 8-9pm ...... This is how you'll add fat. A calcium caesinate shake before bed will suffice, about 40 grams. If you dont have the money then 150g of cottage cheese before bed. That's what i used to do but i hated the taste and texture so i opted for the shake.


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## robisco11 (Dec 8, 2007)

so whats this diet looking like now?


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

well yesterdays diet was this -

*breakfast*

30g whey water

50g oats (porridge with water water) frozen berries

apple

EPA fish oil

kcal- 318

fat-5

carb-35

pro-30

*snack*

chicken salad pitta

kcal- 198

fat-8

carb-29

pro-13

*lunch*

beans reduced salt sugar

burgen bread x 1

kcal- 325

fat-4

carb-45

pro-25

*snack*

cyclone protein bar

kcal- 215

fat-6

carb-13

pro-23

*dinner*

chicken pepper onion

pitta bread

epa fish oil

kcal- 321

fat-9

carb-35

pro-33

*snack*

musli 50g

milk 170g

kcal- 270

fat-14

carb-34

pro-7

4 x boiled eggs

kcal- 346

fat-24

carb-2

pro-28

*Before bed*

50g oats(porridge made with water)

25g whey

Totals -

cals - 2503

fat- 78

carb- 240

pro- 190

When i go back to uni i will try and give it more structure and have set meals, but for now im just eating small protein/low gi snacks quite often


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## robisco11 (Dec 8, 2007)

Personally id try and get those cals up to 3000 minimum. easiest way to do this would be to up your fats but id also up the protein by another 40-50 g


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

i think you have a decent base to build on, you certainly have the shape, just need the meat


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate, and you reccomend 3000 everyday? not lower on non-wo days?


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers vlb! im just trynna pack on the right kinda meat! (muscle not fat!)


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## robisco11 (Dec 8, 2007)

yehh 3000 day in day out. Its no good only getting your proper nutrition in on training days, Say you train 4 days a week and eat very well on those day, but on your rest days you let it slip, thats almost half the week where your not feeding your body in the right way and you wont make any progress. Some people play around with differeing amounts of carbs and fats on training and non training days, but for you id just stick to the same diet every day.


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

Looks like your not eating enough protein rich foods. You need to replace the snacks with proper meat! If your so worried about getting fat I certainly wouldn't have oats before bed.

You gotta get more calories down your neck imo. I aim for 60g protein a meal with carbs and fats on top. Eat big to get big! If you see the fat coming on get your ar$e out of bed earlier in the morining and do some fasted cardio at 60% max bpm


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers but GunnaGetBig but surely as i only weigh 159lb inc bf, 60g a meal is abit much for me? i always make sure i hit at least 170~ a day

But the thing that i cant get my head around is that ive been told 0.5~lb a week is spot on for good natty gains, so if im already achieving this wont adding more calories just add more fat ontop of my muscle gains? because at 0.5lb a week doesnt it seem like my body is building muscle at its max already?


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## robisco11 (Dec 8, 2007)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers but GunnaGetBig but surely as i only weigh 159lb inc bf, 60g a meal is abit much for me? i always make sure i hit at least 170~ a day
> 
> But the thing that i cant get my head around is that ive been told 0.5~lb a week is spot on for good natty gains, so if im already achieving this wont adding more calories just add more fat ontop of my muscle gains? because at 0.5lb a week doesnt it seem like my body is building muscle at its max already?


you could certainly up the protein, if i were you id aim for 6 meals a day, with 50g carbs, 40g protein, 15 g fat in each one.


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## GunnaGetBig (Dec 14, 2008)

Look at it this way.....

If you want to be a 180lb guy with low bf% then you gotta eat like a 180lb guy to acheive it!


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

7 am - 40g of whey, 400ml whole milk (non fat milk on training days), 5 raw eggs, wholemeal bagel with peanut butter (no pb on training day)

Train ~ 8.30

~ 10am (PWO) - 3g BCAA, 60g of malto and creatine with 40g of whey 10 mins after.

11am - Chicken fillet with boiled potatoes and lots of mixed veg and peppers.

2pm - Weight gainer (500 kcal)

5pm - 300g of tuna, chicken or beef with any type of potatoes and mixed veg + broccoli.

8pm - Beef/chicken/fish with spinach and nuts.

Pre-bed - Caesin shake with whole milk.

That's my diet atm ... with a daily treat (HAS to be before 3pm) to up the calories now and then.

been back at the gym for about a month after a 6 month podge-fest -_- ... God bless muscle memory


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## fitnessfreak (Jun 15, 2009)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers but GunnaGetBig but surely as i only weigh 159lb inc bf, 60g a meal is abit much for me? i always make sure i hit at least 170~ a day
> 
> But the thing that i cant get my head around is that ive been told 0.5~lb a week is spot on for good natty gains, so if im already achieving this wont adding more calories just add more fat ontop of my muscle gains? because at 0.5lb a week doesnt it seem like my body is building muscle at its max already?


Newbie gains are quicker so you can make fas initial gains in muscle mass without adding much fat. Also remember that along with muscle comes water so if you are gain half a pound of muscle per week, it will look more on the scale.


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## alan87 (Apr 27, 2009)

fat? i guess its on your ankles then? lol

i reckon u gotta good base to build on if u ask me


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## Jake1436114563 (May 9, 2008)

My advice.....

Don't bother counting Macro's...... pointless at this stage.

Just eat everything that isn't nailed down.

Then eat everything that IS nailed down....

Then eat the nails.

Forget about protein powders, unless you just want one upon waking and one as a PWO shake (with 50-80mg maltodextrin).

Eat food. ****ing tonnes of it. 5/6 good hefty meals a day.

Meat, whole eggs, fish, whole milk, oats, brown bread, brown pasta, potatoes, rice etc etc


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## Jake1436114563 (May 9, 2008)

kaos_nw said:


> cheers mate, and you reccomend 3000 everyday? not lower on non-wo days?


I'd say more than 3k per day. Your 6'3'' and 69Kg.

You need to eat, a lot, properly.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

thanks everyone


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## Round-2 (Jul 20, 2009)

I've seen more fat on a clean lolly stick mate. Your stomach has folds of skin no fat worth mentioning. That skin will pull taut as muscle builds on your body.

Eat loads lift heavy, rest & sleep well. You will grow no problem.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Some great advice for this guy on the replies here...

My 2ps worth is at your current level its just about getting some basic mass on there and just hit it hard with a great high calorie diet from all your pure sources of food as normal:

Eggs

oats

milk

nutts

brown rice

brown pasta

bananas

chicken

fish

red meats

protien supps

etc...etc...

Wake up and hit it hard with nice high 500 calorie breaky minimum, same with mid morning snack and a nice 1000 calorie lunch to get you upto 2k mark and then just keep eating the good stuff 

Train damn hard and eat loads.


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