# Gyno removal



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

So im sat in noa clinic now wearing a paper dressing gown and slippers waiting for the op in 2 hours

They're going to remove the entire gland which is a massive weght off my mind since my reasoning for removal is preventative not because it's unsightly (you can only just see it when I'm very lean, half an almond size gland)

Hotel orbita is the pits! Shabby ass room with no soap or fa in bathroom and the room was dirty, cracked mirror ect and then there was people doing doughnuts and blaring music on the motorway outside all night.

Surgery in 2 hrs then I've got to stay in the clinic in a room with no tv, just my phone, a bed, a fan and a sink

Really hungry and thirsty but nil by mouth.

I'll try get a few photos but there's nothing much to see in terms of before and afters or the scenary

I just want to get this s**t done and get back to UK

For those interested the surgery cost me £1400, bloodwork is £20, taxi to clinic maybe £5 and then hotel was around £150 for 2 of us for 3 nights (I implore you not to go with orbita) flights were about £250 for both of us so all in all if you take your Mrs then expect to pay around the 2k mark when all's said and done

Still a huge saving on what youd spend on a cheap surgeon in the uk and the guy doing my op performs hundreds of gyno surgeries per year


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Good luck bud, hope everything goes 100%


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## Flipper (Jan 11, 2011)

Good luck buddy


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Cheers lads

Just seen the surgeon for the full boob fondling and incision lines and he said he expects a very good result due to pec size, lack of chest fat and very small glands

When I asked about the full removal and them not doing it he said it's generally when someone has an overly developed gland and it will cause cratering

He said in my case the gland is so small it won't be an issue and if he removes the entire gland it won't grow again so despite me being adamant I don't use steroids he's still implying that without full removal I'm at risk of regrowth, if it gets the desired result then so be it, I am lying about my use after all lol

Now the bad news

* I have to wear the compression vest for 6-8 weeks

* only walking and slow arm movement (non weight bearing) for the next 2 weeks

* can start light high rep leg work after 2 weeks but no upper body for 6-8 weeks

* No uv exposure without spf 60 for 12 months

But his optimism rubbed off on me as someone who performs hundreds per year he kept echoing mine is a mild case and I should expect a very good result

Which overall I wasn't majorly concerned with but more so the full gland removal which I'm getting so so far so good

Just waiting the final hour or 2 and then they'll put me under

I'll update when I come round and feel ok to, anesthetic really messes me up so I'll get over the nausea and lethargy and then fill you's in


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Op done

Woke up pain and groggy free

Just starving!!

She took my compression bandage off and prodded about and I literally have 0 pain

I think the discomfort and pain of the pec surgery really pathed the way for an easy gyno op

Plus they must have used a different anaesthetic because I have no nausea or brain fog like last time

No more glands, bring on the dbol :thumb


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Literally just fu**ing slept all day bored shitless

There's no tv or anything in the clinic overnight room and they only let my Mrs in for an hour so been going out my mind

Tried to sleep about an hour ago but body having none of it

But then just as I was about to lose my s**t the nurse came in who is terrible! At English and said "drip for pain now" and she rigged me up and then she came back said "sleep pills?"

So she came through and I'm now feeling woozy as s**t writing this having taken them 20 min ago


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

When you wake up later just have a feel round your back to make sure they haven't had one of your kidneys away!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sasnak said:


> When you wake up later just have a feel round your back to make sure they haven't had one of your kidneys away!


 Expendable organs all still in place

I do feel like they're trying to break me though, I've been stuck in a room with no tv for the past 24 hrs now and I just cannot sleep anymore

That sleep tablet she gave me last night just got me really woozy but I was so overslept that I managed to stay up for almost 90 mins after taking it


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Woke up to the elderly nurse asking me to sit up and I had a fu**ing lob on, all that test still lingering

Aside from that she removed my bandage and chest looking good

Like I said there was no dramatic gyno or chest fat to speak of so it's not like wow my chest is flat because I never had the breasticles some guys develop but I can see its 'flatter' and ofcourse the whole reason I'm here, no glands 

Just destroyed some smoked ham and sourdough sandwiches with cheese, followed by a yogurt and a cup of tea which I havnt had in years (coffee drinker)

Now just say about waiting for the surgeon to start so I can get the all clear to leave

I didn't bleed at all, chest looks good and now I'm just thinking about food since apart from that breakfast I just had I havnt eaten in 36 hours

I've taken few photos along the way and I'll edit them in when I get home tomorrow


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Prob last update

I'm back at hotel now

Literally no pain in my chest

Spoke to surgeon he said my glands were a slight bit larger than a almond on the left and bit smaller on the right

He removed 300cc of fat from each side

Chest looks way better than I thought it would, guess I had more fat on there than I thought.

To anyone considering this op but worried about recover, do it

It's so minor, I've been walling round the town all day and I feel absolutely fine


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Good to hear it's all well and done mate. Worth the pennies by the sound of it. :thumbup1:


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Good to hear it's all well and done mate. Worth the pennies by the sound of it. :thumbup1:


 Undoubtedly mate

Full gland removal as well so never getting any twinge or itch ever again

Also got a decent bit of sight seeing as I'm legit 90% pain free


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

swole troll said:


> Undoubtedly mate
> 
> Full gland removal as well so never getting any twinge or itch ever again
> 
> Also got a decent bit of sight seeing as I'm legit 90% pain free


 Go to the tatra mountains if you are anywhere close.

Najlepsze miejsce w Polsce. :thumbup1:


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Go to the tatra mountains if you are anywhere close.
> 
> Najlepsze miejsce w Polsce. :thumbup1:


 I'm off tomorrow mate, popping down the clinic first thing and getting dressings changed then straight to the airport

Been good to get a small holiday thrown in with the surgery though


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## MarkyMark (Jul 14, 2015)

All the best mate! Here's to a speedy recovery!

so when do we get to see some pics of your recent boob Job?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

ay i cant be arsed uploading all the photos of the room and other sights there, the log's got the info and was all slapped together

and @MarkyMark there is literally nothing to show because im soft as s**t atm so chest is holding fat and i only really went for the gland removal which was almond size

i could have easily lived my life with the gyno i had i was just fed up of having to be so on it with the E2 control and dbol being an absolute bitch to run

so there is no dramatic before and after, in fact you can hardly see a difference, he removed 300cc of fat from the chest and took the glands out entirely which is what i wanted


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## MarkyMark (Jul 14, 2015)

swole troll said:


> ay i cant be arsed uploading all the photos of the room and other sights there, the log's got the info and was all slapped together
> 
> and @MarkyMark there is literally nothing to show because im soft as s**t atm so chest is holding fat and i only really went for the gland removal which was almond size
> 
> ...


 and he didn't even offer you a doggy bag for the glands?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

MarkyMark said:


> and he didn't even offer you a doggy bag for the glands?


 sadly not

said he had them on his break with some pickled cabbage and sourdough


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## TomTom1 (Feb 1, 2007)

How's the recovery going mate?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

TomTom1 said:


> How's the recovery going mate?


 an absolute breeze

literally cant understand why anyone would bitch about this surgery aside from the time off the gym

in fact i was back up the gym yesterday doing some light cardio just for blood flow and keeping active

fa bruising, bit of tenderness, pain on a scale of 1-10 now about 2 and if i sit or stand still i dont even feel it at all

carte blanche to take as much dbol as i want moving forward as well

if anyone is considering this surgery because you have either noticeable glands or struggle to control E2 on cycle then i implore you to do so

chest reducing in size each day as swelling goes down

oh also get voitech if you go noa, he performs 100's per year which is a high head count for gyno surgery


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## TomTom1 (Feb 1, 2007)

swole troll said:


> an absolute breeze
> 
> literally cant understand why anyone would bitch about this surgery aside from the time off the gym
> 
> ...


 I have my Op next week and my gyno is a lot worse than yours - I'm pretty sure that its going to affect the recovery rate!


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

TomTom1 said:


> I have my Op next week and my gyno is a lot worse than yours - I'm pretty sure that its going to affect the recovery rate!


 Glad you're getting it seen to mate it looks ****in awful in your avi.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

TomTom1 said:


> I have my Op next week and my gyno is a lot worse than yours - I'm pretty sure that its going to affect the recovery rate!


 It will but you're stll only looking at 6 ish weeks out the gym at worse


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

first session back

wasnt suppose to lift anything until 14 days but 9 days in and im climbing the walls so went up and did

leg extensions 4x20 
leg curl 3x15
leg press machine 2x25

all really slow just to feel a burn because ive been starved of using my muscles

fingers, toes and nipples crossed i didnt pop anything and get a seroma

im going to do the same next week and just slowly up the weight then add in some arm stuff and machine rows in week 3 (17th)

the ONLY s**t thing about this operation is the recovery, its not painful or uncomfortable its just fu**ing horrible being out the gym when you feel fine


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Decided that I might as well walk this log through from surgery to back to full training so the small update for today is I did 3x8 with an empty bar squatting

I had to rest my hands where the plates would be but they were pain free which is good

Also did various leg iso stuff

Can't wait to be squatting some actual weight again


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

didnt notice this start up!

in obviously.

good to hear progress so far  gives me hope for when i get the same done.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> didnt notice this start up!
> 
> in obviously.
> 
> good to hear progress so far  gives me hope for when i get the same done.


 its because its a bit of a spin off to my usual threads

fa pics and half assed entries

i just feel like the gyno rec logs have been done to death with no variation

one of the best and what lead me to get the surgery in the first place being put up by @ashmo

so i thought id just chuck up my experience in brief in case anyone was interested

if there isnt a "swole troll's" in the title then its not that serious to me lel


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

first day rubbing bio-oil into my chest

was peculiar experience to say the least

some fat lumps of scar tissue in there and can honestly say after just a few minutes of rubbing away at them i noticed a big difference

im only on day 12 and not suppose to start the massage until day 14 but with the growth and myriad of OTC supps that i trialed and researched when recovering from my pec tear i think its safe to say im probably ahead of schedule

SSB squats next week, cant wait!


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

MarkyMark said:


> All the best mate! Here's to a speedy recovery!
> 
> so when do we get to see some pics of your recent boob Job?


 He's already had 2 boob jobs this year, got a feeling the what the ops going to be


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

so im back in the gym somewhat properly (squatting)

i was using the SSB and managed just 50kg for 3x10, REALLY easy of course but just wanted to get the hips moving without stressing the sites

followed up with some leg ext, curls and then arm curls and tri extensions

was a bitter sweet because im back in the gym but the workout blew ass on the whole.

Unrelated to my gyno recovery i dug up this pic the other day

this is me at the peak of my weight last year at 132kg / 21 stone

strongest i ever been in my life but 0 aesthetics lol

that fu**ing moon face


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## Test-e (Mar 26, 2014)

swole troll said:


> so im back in the gym somewhat properly (squatting)
> 
> i was using the SSB and managed just 50kg for 3x10, REALLY easy of course but just wanted to get the hips moving without stressing the sites
> 
> ...


 Reckon your face is holding a good 10kg of fat and water there mate haha.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Test-e said:


> Reckon your face is holding a good 10kg of fat and water there mate haha.


 its no wonder i was getting sleep apnea

looks like i was doing sub q shots of injectable dbol into my cheeks


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## Test-e (Mar 26, 2014)

swole troll said:


> its no wonder i was getting sleep apnea
> 
> looks like i was doing sub q shots of injectable dbol into my cheeks


 Were you enjoying life at the size?

I've never been above 120kg and even getting there was a horrid struggle.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Test-e said:


> Were you enjoying life at the size?
> 
> I've never been above 120kg and even getting there was a horrid struggle.


*TLDR - *life was pretty miserable on the whole, there were pro's with getting that size completely disregarding my physique but overall i felt like s**t and the rapid gain in strength followed by a very quick 10kg drop in body weight was big contributing factor to my pec rupture that im still recovering from now 6 months later

*the con's were*

* i was on a lot of tren but the size no doubt played a huge factor in it, i was constantly out of breath and a windowless room away from bursting into sweat

* my knees and low back ached a lot!

* i had bouts of sleep apnea and couldnt sleep on my front because my low back would hurt

* fa mobility, had to get my mrs to scratch my rear delt if i had an itch, let alone my back

* i looked like s**t

* i was eating 8000 calories per day and lantus, ghrp 6 and mk 677 couldnt even save me, i just had to cram down food whilst feeling stuffed, knowing that id have to eat again in 2 hours time, not for some stupid constant flow of nutrients thing but because i had no choice otherwise i wouldnt be able to consume all my calories in a smaller eating window

* needed to sleep around 9-10 hrs per day to feel normal, 8hrs sleep per night then a nap post wo and a nap during my break at work around 1800

* having to eat masses of shitty food like fried stuff and sweets because hitting 8000 kcal was near impossible clean plus i had no appetite to do so, usualyl ate about 4000-5000 calories 'clean' then the rest just anything i could muster the appetite to inhale

*the pro's were *

* stronger every workout more or less also with random bouts of crazy strength boosts even once the gear had settled (in the later weeks of a blast)

* was OCCASIONALLY nice waking up and thinking i could eat anything i want for breakfast as this was the only meal i ate non stuffed and it was post ghrp 6 shot so appetite was there for this meal only

* i felt big, yea i was fat af but was holding decent mass too so when i didnt gaze down at my belly it was nice to fill out a sweater and have my traps showing through, this picture of me at 120 was during the same bulk so i was carrying more muscle than i was in this pic but still was most happy ive been with my build in this picture

* was fun to see the scale hit 290lb (mental masturbation thing) just to know what it felt like to hit that number

* comical rolling into work and going on break to consume what most of my colleagues would eat in an entire day in one sitting, usually 5 new york bagels and a litre of FF milk on my 45 minute break then proceeding to sleep for 30 mins face down on an old desk

EDIT - just realized id never actually hit 300lb, well wtf i been telling every tom, dick and harry i have

looks like ill have to do all this s**t again!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

160kg beltless squats for 5 followed by some leg extensions using a weight that was actually difficult for a few sets

feels good, chest feels fine

i feel i could be out the woods but i guess we'll soon find out given i definitely got my heart rate and internal pressure up today so hopefully no bleed outs over the next few hours

ive got a blood test kit from medisave im going to take monday, if training is still ok then / i can squat and deadlift pain free and the blood results come back acceptable then ill start up 40mg dbol on top of my 300mg test cruise and enter this meet on August 13th at my gym


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Sounds like a new log will be required :thumbup1:


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sasnak said:


> Sounds like a new log will be required :thumbup1:


 i might just do that

be very brief given the meet is only 6 weeks out lol but i do have a big cut planned for after so could potentially merge the two










i swore i wouldnt take any tren this year but just makes for such a perfect cutting aid in terms of retaining strength


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## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

swole troll said:


> i might just do that
> 
> be very brief given the meet is only 6 weeks out lol but i do have a big cut planned for after so could potentially merge the two
> 
> ...


 I'm off on holiday on Saturday for a couple of weeks and when I get back I'm (finally) going to start a progress log of my own so I don't keep using yours! I've been dieting since last October so not much to write about other than I'm about back to what I used to look like. I'm 6'3" and currently 212lb down from around 244 at my heaviest, petty much all fat. I've noticed that my strength is massively down though, so I'm looking forward to a good bulk with a cycle thrown in. Not used gear for ages but I have amassed quite a collection since around Christmas, picking up odds and sods like I'm collecting the stuff in the same way people collect stamps or war memorabilia.

The only problem is where do I start! I might get a mate to hide the vial of tren a from me when I do start so I don't go off on one!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sasnak said:


> I'm off on holiday on Saturday for a couple of weeks and when I get back I'm (finally) going to start a progress log of my own so I don't keep using yours! I've been dieting since last October so not much to write about other than I'm about back to what I used to look like. I'm 6'3" and currently 212lb down from around 244 at my heaviest, petty much all fat. I've noticed that my strength is massively down though, so I'm looking forward to a good bulk with a cycle thrown in. Not used gear for ages but I have amassed quite a collection since around Christmas, picking up odds and sods like I'm collecting the stuff in the same way people collect stamps or war memorabilia.
> 
> The only problem is where do I start! I might get a mate to hide the vial of tren a from me when I do start so I don't go off on one!


 Look forward to it mate

Best advice I can give is you can only accrue muscle so fast

As you know by my logs I've done the whole shotgun thing but on a few occasions I've gone past the point of diminished return


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

hit gym today

barbell rows 60kg 4x12 pain free

deadlift 60kg 1x4 felt a little weird at the bottom but no pain

side laterals 10kg 3x12 pain free

hammer curls 10kg 3x12 pain free

flat dumbbell bench 5kg 1x3 not very comfortable at all, no real pain but enough discomfort to make me sack it off

tri extensions 27.5kg 3x20 pain free

so as you can see im getting back to it, todays workout was a crock of fluff and pump bullshit and the rows were painfully light but just slowly working those movement patterns back in

im aiming to be back to full training with sub maximal weights by mid next week (weds-thurs) and unrestricted training the following week

this is all assuming im not internally bleeding and im going to wake up one day with a seroma

i dont think this is the case for what its worth because i havnt felt any notable discomfort bar the flat bench but i sacked it off really quickly and there was no pain just an odd tightness that didnt feel right

bloody frustrating because i feel fine overall

do have a knot of scar tissue behind each nipple but im bio-oil massaging it post shower ED and then periodically just massaging it throughout the day

whether its doing a great deal or not i dont know @ashmo @Jeebo did you guys felt that massaging did a whole lot for the scar tissue and how long did it take for yours to break down?


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## Retteb (Jun 19, 2017)

how long had your gyno been stable or existent before you got surgery?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Retteb said:


> how long had your gyno been stable or existent before you got surgery?


 2014 ish


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

so i just finished some benching up the gym and i dont know if it was a direct result from today (there was no pain) or coincidental that i just started excessively feeling around my chest today as i was worried after benching but i believe i may have a seroma going on in the left pec

so im just drinking a coffee and weighing up the options and im probably going to self drain it with a 21g

the fluid is thinner than oil that comes out a seroma so wont be an issue with such a thin needle but like i say im not certain yet so ill report back if i do decide to drain it

training for those that gaf

bench press

60kg 3x5

incline curls

10kg 3x20

that was it lol


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

couldnt get anything out

used a 21g and jabbed it twice and moved all around, got nothing but air

f**k knows what it is, maybe im just fatter than i realized


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## TomTom1 (Feb 1, 2007)

what made you think it was a seroma mate?

Ive got a lot of scar tissue after just 1 week but now you've got me thinking!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

TomTom1 said:


> what made you think it was a seroma mate?
> 
> Ive got a lot of scar tissue after just 1 week but now you've got me thinking!


 its a bit more fluid like in that pec, feel around, if its like a water bed anywhere then youre holding fluid in there which can delay recovery

after a week i wouldnt sweat it but im 3 weeks post op

i pinned it multiple times but couldnt find fa so booking in with GP later

best to nip em in the bud asap as its just holding the skin away from the underlying muscle which will delay the adhesion / healing


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Right so first sesh in the bag (real sesh) and it was a goodun 

*Squats *
*
140kg x5*
*
170kg x8 (est 1rm 215kg) *
*
180kg x3 *

*
Rows *

*
100kg 3x6*

*
Leg curl*

*
77kg 3x10*

*
OHP *

*
20kg (just the bar) 1x15 *

*
done*

really happy with the squats since ive had 2 weeks off and ive been cruising for over a month now (6 ish weeks)

legs feel dommed up to s**t already so tomorrow will be fun

ohp felt odd but i think i can work on it

still unsure about this potential seroma as mention above, i prodded around yesterday but couldnt seem to get anything out so i called in to GP this morning and they had nothing until 1130 but i was still at gym at 1115 which is a 20 minute drive so that wasnt happening

she said to phone back at 1500 and theyll get me one this afternoon so have a professional pull anything out or confirm if there is even anything to pull out

either way not sweating it, had fa pain or discomfort today and scar tissue is going down at last

ive said it many times ITT, if you are thinking about getting gyno surgery then just do it, fly to poland and get it done, its more of a ballache in your mind then actually doing it plus you can enjoy the city a bit just a day or 2 after the op as its so minor

ive always been highly estro sensitive, i could run high doses of test and decent doses of dbol all at once but my ai and serm game had to be on point

now i just spent 9 days on 300mg per week and no AI or serm and no issues, this doesnt sound like much to some but i use to ALWAYS need an AI even on just 200mg otherwise my nips would get itchy

2k in total well spent to not have to spunk cash on AI's and SERM's forever more

sure ill still need them to stay within range but theres no gun to my head anymore

all this post op positivity and my gyno literally wasnt visible, it was just knowing i had the glands that f**ked me off so if yours is visible in any way and youre holding back on taking your shirt off then dont even think twice just get it done


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## SuperRips (Sep 14, 2015)

How did I miss this!!

Wojtek whatever his name is is a top surgeon and I can only echo what swole is saying, I'm is was way way to expensive.

So how is your pec swole? Could be your mind playing with you. I've still got the scar tissue under each areola but is decreasing very slowly. It's nice to have flat areola's ain't it :thumb


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

SuperRips said:


> How did I miss this!!
> 
> Wojtek whatever his name is is a top surgeon and I can only echo what swoll is saying, I'm is was way way to expensive.
> 
> So how is your pec swoll? Could be your mind playing with you. I've still got the scar tissue under each areola but is decreasing very slowly. It's nice to have flat areola's ain't it :thumb


 I ruptured my pec mate

Back in jan

It's been a bitch to recover from (still not there) that's what is causing the benching apprehension not the gyno surgery

I'm recovering sound from the gyno op :thumb

Tbf my nips or chest wasn't bad at all

Only when very lean could you see a very small almond size gland

I got them out because I had a psychological issue with knowing I had glands

Also the ai serm juggling was a ballache

I wanted the option to let e2 run high whenever I want


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## SuperRips (Sep 14, 2015)

Phew! Thought you was going to say one of your pecs is ready to explode like mine did 

When you say run E2 high whenever you want, is there a sweet spot out of range that suits you?

reason I ask was when my e2 came back 188 on one of my tests I actually felt great at the time, nothing negative even with bloat/moon face yet I find the lower I go is where the bloat starts to attack. Another one of my tests came back <18 and again I felt fine, none of the common sides of low e2. Baffles me...

So if I was to have one of my tests come back at say 225 for example, am I still safe to stay at that range?


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## SuperRips (Sep 14, 2015)

What I will add is when I had the scan just after mine popped I could see on the screen exactly where the seroma was and there are so many layers to go through to hit it bang on so if I was to self drain then id have had to go through my areola. Looked as though if you dont go in enough or to much you dont hit the fluid. I was so tempted to do it myself when I first caught it but s**t myself lol


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

SuperRips said:


> What I will add is when I had the scan just after mine popped I could see on the screen exactly where the seroma was and there are so many layers to go through to hit it bang on so if I was to self drain then id have had to go through my areola. Looked as though if you dont go in enough or to much you dont hit the fluid. I was so tempted to do it myself when I first caught it but s**t myself lol


 Ref your other post you can put e2 where you like, within range is obviously healthiest but some extra water ret can go a long way in strength sports.

I didn't go gp in the end because I don't feel it's as bad as I first thought

How long post op did you have issues with a seroma?


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## SuperRips (Sep 14, 2015)

swole troll said:


> Ref your other post you can put e2 where you like, within range is obviously healthiest but some extra water ret can go a long way in strength sports.
> 
> I didn't go gp in the end because I don't feel it's as bad as I first thought
> 
> How long post op did you have issues with a seroma?


 Ahh right, noted :thumb

My seroma started about 3wks into recovery...

Even if you have the slightest doubt then get it checked, forget the gp, just go down to urgent care (not A&E) and they'll do more for you. It's them who referred me to another hospital for a scan. My gp was useless she just said it'll drain itself either way and not to worry...the silly cow!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

SuperRips said:


> Ahh right, noted :thumb
> 
> My seroma started about 3wks into recovery...
> 
> Even if you have the slightest doubt then get it checked, forget the gp, just go down to urgent care (not A&E) and they'll do more for you. It's them who referred me to another hospital for a scan. My gp was useless she just said it'll drain itself either way and not to worry...the silly cow!


 my schedule is tight mate lol

i am 3 weeks post op though, mine is kind of up near the arm pit though, real edge of the pec

dont they typically form around the nipple?

mine is right near that upper drop of blood where i tried to drain it

my mrs cant feel anything but im fairly sure its a little off and feels a wee bit more squishy than the other side

got to remember i been out the gym a lot this year so got soft as s**t and its hard to identify something like this with absolute certainty


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## SuperRips (Sep 14, 2015)

swole troll said:


> my schedule is tight mate lol
> 
> i am 3 weeks post op though, mine is kind of up near the arm pit though, real edge of the pec
> 
> ...


 I remember reading somewhere on some forum that it's possible for a seroma to develope anywhere that has been subjected to trauma so it is possible.

This is why I'm saying if you have any doubt then it needs checking out else it will develope more and even if you self drain it's still got to heal aswell as the rest of you healing going on....untighten that schedule lol


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

SuperRips said:


> I remember reading somewhere on some forum that it's possible for a seroma to develope anywhere that has been subjected to trauma so it is possible.
> 
> This is why I'm saying if you have any doubt then it needs checking out else it will develope more and even if you self drain it's still got to heal aswell as the rest of you healing going on....untighten that schedule lol


 lol ok i will get it checked

if nothing else in 10 days im getting an MRI for the pec that was ruptured on the same side so they will spot any seroma anyway since its right next to my pec tendon

but i will do my best to see someone before and keep you's all posted


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

somewhat continuing this log ITT

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/302421-swole-trolls-last-minute-meet-prep-short-log/?do=embed

way i see it is bar the potential seroma that ill get looked at the gyno is a non issue where training is concerned just 3 weeks post op

either way any relevant updates or just updates in general will now continue in the above thread


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

swole troll said:


> hit gym today
> 
> barbell rows 60kg 4x12 pain free
> 
> ...


 Yes it helped a lot! From I can remember a few good weeks!


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## Retteb (Jun 19, 2017)

how's the scarring? any nipple crater?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Retteb said:


> how's the scarring? any nipple crater?


 Unless you are within licking distance you cant see fa

Some very minor cratering when I lean over and flex but how often that going to happen

No one would look twice


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## Retteb (Jun 19, 2017)

glad to hear it mate-


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## Jeebo (May 19, 2012)

Sorry for late reply @swole troll

Yeah defo noticed a difference massaging. Think I got pretty obsessed lol. Would work at it breaking the tissue up. Can't remember for how long I continued it but the results are bang on


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Jeebo said:


> Sorry for late reply @swole troll
> 
> Yeah defo noticed a difference massaging. Think I got pretty obsessed lol. Would work at it breaking the tissue up. Can't remember for how long I continued it but the results are bang on


 yea its working a treat mate 

the big lumps of scar tissue are about an 1/8 of the size they were when i first started massaging

and yes im obsessed also lol, doing it multiple times per day, getting funny looks in work


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## TomTom1 (Feb 1, 2007)

How are you getting on with the compression vest? I bought a skin tight compression top which has helped a little bit, but its doing my head in under a work shirt. Sweating so hard!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

TomTom1 said:


> How are you getting on with the compression vest? I bought a skin tight compression top which has helped a little bit, but its doing my head in under a work shirt. Sweating so hard!


 worse part of it isnt it

cant stand it!

always riding up and i feel like im wearing a boob tube

i was told underarmour is fine by my surgeon after the first couple weeks but i find that even hotter under my work shirt since it has sleeves and goes all the way up to the neck

its funny you should mention the comp vest actually because ive been reading up on it loads today and there is plenty of surgeons that say 2 weeks to 3 weeks to a month to 6 weeks to 2 months

its just so much varied opinion, i think its mainly based on severity of the case / how much tissue was removed

mine was fa so im on the verge of ditching it already at 3.5 weeks post op

ive been running fair bit of growth, peps and mk677 and all the worthy OTC supps so healing faster than average

i was told to wear it 6-8 weeks but then ive spoken to others who were operated on at noa and they were told to wear it for 4 weeks 24/7 and then 4 weeks just at night


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## wilko1985 (May 17, 2010)

swole troll said:


> worse part of it isnt it
> 
> cant stand it!
> 
> ...


 If it helps i had the surgery done on my left nipple when I was 15 by the NHS. I was packed up and shipped out the day after with no vest or compression garments. Everything was absolutely fine, bar me nearly splitting the stitching playing football about 4 days post op.... whoops! So is the vest necessary at all after that many weeks?

i would echo caution with the whole no growing back thing though. As I said in a thread the other day, they took the whole gland out (to the point of leaving a crater). I dabbled with Pro hormones about 4 years ago and developed a new lump about 1 1/2 inches actually below the nipple. So it was either an insanely small part that was missed all those years ago or it genuinely grew on its own.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

wilko1985 said:


> If it helps i had the surgery done on my left nipple when I was 15 by the NHS. I was packed up and shipped out the day after with no vest or compression garments. Everything was absolutely fine, bar me nearly splitting the stitching playing football about 4 days post op.... whoops! So is the vest necessary at all after that many weeks?
> 
> i would echo caution with the whole no growing back thing though. As I said in a thread the other day, they took the whole gland out (to the point of leaving a crater). I dabbled with Pro hormones about 4 years ago and developed a new lump about 1 1/2 inches actually below the nipple. So it was either an insanely small part that was missed all those years ago or it genuinely grew on its own.


 I can't see the vest doing much now

I may see out the rest of this week but another 2-4 is beyond excessive

Interesting about yours growing back

I was assured mine has been 100% removed but I'll still control e2 and keep tamox in there for dbol cycles


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## wilko1985 (May 17, 2010)

swole troll said:


> I can't see the vest doing much now
> 
> I may see out the rest of this week but another 2-4 is beyond excessive
> 
> ...


 Awesome, good luck with the rest of the recovery. I've just emailed the same clinic some pictures of mine. The lumps I don't care about, as like you, you can't see them. But the constant faffing around even on a cruise dose to stop them hurting, growing etc is an absolute pain. I'll see what they say. The cost is fine I'm just too damn lazy to push the button and get it done :lol:


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

@sw337y

ref your post in the other gyno removal thread

ive recovered fine since my op, can use as little AI as i like with no fear of nip issues

scars are so hard to see unless pointed out and viewed closely no one would notice

and to anyone that has gyno issues, flare ups, pubertal ect that plans on continuing to or start using steroids id STRONGLY recommend getting this op done
youll look better for it, feel better for it, far less stress and the ability to allow oestrogen to run high when you want it to

all for sub £2k (flights, food, accommodation, taxis, surgery, compression vest) even less if you travel alone (i took my mrs)


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## Retteb (Jun 19, 2017)

thanks for update- my gyno always grows 11 weeks and its just started up again


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Retteb said:


> thanks for update- my gyno always grows 11 weeks and its just started up again


 your gyno grows because of hormonal imbalance

i dont know where you are getting 11 weeks from unless that is how often you take steroids


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## Retteb (Jun 19, 2017)

yes it is because of hormonal imbalance- that's what most people get it from, but it did stop and now its back- and no I don't cycle for that long- haven't cycled all year mate. What was your gyno from?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Retteb said:


> yes it is because of hormonal imbalance- that's what most people get it from, but it did stop and now its back- and no I don't cycle for that long- haven't cycled all year mate. What was your gyno from?


 puberty, exacerbated early in my AAS use by off cycle hormonal imbalance and me following poor advice on how to handle it


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Booked in for mine doing in November at Noa after reading your log bud, many thanks @swole troll


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sparkey said:


> Booked in for mine doing in November at Noa after reading your log bud, many thanks @swole troll


 just messaged you mate, good luck with it

money well spent

just make sure you contact your bank to let them know youre going and you will be spending quite a bit of cash out there

its best £1400 i spent for care free blasting, i think i mentioned before but i use to have to take an AI for even 150mg test per week (low dose but still) and as soon as i went up to around 700mg it was 25mg of aromasin ED to keep nipples happy, anything higher than that then nolva was a must

now im on 750mg test, 750mg eq and 30mg dbol ED and im taking 25mg of aromasin split throughtout the week (1/4 tab EOD)

i only take AI for bloating now and then off blast just to keep e2 in range


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

swole troll said:


> just messaged you mate, good luck with it
> 
> money well spent
> 
> ...


 no return of gyno?

Can prog gyno appears even with the gland removed? prog gyno is the one near the armpits that can grow even with SERM+low E2


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Baka said:


> no return of gyno?
> 
> Can prog gyno appears even with the gland removed? prog gyno is the one near the armpits that can grow even with SERM+low E2


 All gyno is the same

Once glands removed almost or entirely (at least 95 - 98% removal) it cannot grow back

It only grows back if the surgeon misses too much of it


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

swole troll said:


> All gyno is the same
> 
> Once glands removed almost or entirely (at least 95 - 98% removal) it cannot grow back
> 
> It only grows back if the surgeon misses too much of it


 ok , well i have really really low E2 (almost not visible on blood work) , really high prog and high prolactin.

My gyno is getting worse ED , and even worse when i took caber some days ago (lowered my prolactin but it looks like it acts on the prog receprtors and make them active , burnt my nipples really hard and some fat tissue forming on the side some hours after , every tume i took caber and it's pharma ).

So my gyno is getting worse with crashed E2 , with 120mg ralox 40mg nolva on 250mg test / w , because my progesterone is really high from test conversion.

It's no the glandular kind of gyno , more of the one that make look like moobs , round and you can feel some breast tissue underneath which look like fat.

that's why i was wondering if even i got my gland remove , will those receptors everywhere from armpit to breast will be 'dead' or 'off'? i don't think so unfortunately , in my case it sucks


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Baka said:


> ok , well i have really really low E2 (almost not visible on blood work) , really high prog and high prolactin.
> 
> My gyno is getting worse ED , and even worse when i took caber some days ago (lowered my prolactin but it looks like it acts on the prog receprtors and make them active , burnt my nipples really hard and some fat tissue forming on the side some hours after , every tume i took caber and it's pharma ).
> 
> ...


 There is no such thing to my knowledge

You have a gland that can grow.

Anything else is fat, it can start as a puffiness and then firm up but it's still the gland

If you took caber on top of what you're already on it would be impossible! For you to develop gyno on 250mg test

Tbh I'm questioning whether or not your figures are accurate as is

Are you sure your serms and ai is legit?


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

swole troll said:


> There is no such thing to my knowledge
> 
> You have a gland that can grow.
> 
> ...


 First of all sorry for my english , i'll do my best :

Yes i'm sure of what i'm saying , i've been 'studying' gyno for 3 years , i've always thought i was gyno prone from E2 so i was using letro as my AI on 250mg test but now i know it's the really high progesterone (almost 10x normal range) , that even with nearly 0 oestrogen in my blood i get gyno growing which is crazy but a LOT of people taking steroids must have this problem without knowing it.. they have low E2 but get gyno growing , it s the progesteron receptors that aren't the same as oestrogen.

I have oestrogen gyno on one side , it's hard and glandular .

I have progesterone gyno on both sides , breast tissue that is everywhere from armpit to neck that grow as soon as your levels are high or receptor are 'on'.

HCG gave me instant gyno symptoms too , from the progesterone increase , same for winstrol (people saying it's anti-prog it's total BS) , winstrol is like tren it CAN act as a progestin you can find it in books or some sites if you do a lot of research : small progestin properties . and to be honest the first time i had that progesterone gyno coming was the day i took small dose winstrol

For caber , it's the same. Caber make your DHT level throught the roof for 1-3 days , lower prolactin and up dopamine and guess what... make your progesterone get Really high , for how long ? i don't know.. maybe for months , years and no ways of decreasing progesterone apart from women pills.

My serms/ai are all pharma , even my test was pharma , i'm using TM atm but i've used more pharma.

Just to say people don't know much about these because they don't have the problems , so they repeat what they read/thing. i've made my researchs during years and made bloods/tests et


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Baka said:


> First of all sorry for my english , i'll do my best :
> 
> Yes i'm sure of what i'm saying , i've been 'studying' gyno for 3 years , i've always thought i was gyno prone from E2 so i was using letro as my AI on 250mg test but now i know it's the really high progesterone (almost 10x normal range) , that even with nearly 0 oestrogen in my blood i get gyno growing which is crazy but a LOT of people taking steroids must have this problem without knowing it.. they have low E2 but get gyno growing , it s the progesteron receptors that aren't the same as oestrogen.
> 
> ...


 I'm in no place to look any of this up right now but in all honesty mate if what youre saying is accurate then id get it seen to and then stop taking gear for good


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

swole troll said:


> I'm in no place to look any of this up right now but in all honesty mate if what youre saying is accurate then id get it seen to and then stop taking gear for good


 Yea , that's why i only use test E low dose but i'll stop soon i think.


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## Levorg (Sep 27, 2017)

Took me three goes at this place to get a half decent result and even now when I'm warm nips look like pap.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Levorg said:


> Took me three goes at this place to get a half decent result and even now when I'm warm nips look like pap.


 eesh thats unfortunate

mines spot on


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

@Baka Gyno you get from oestrogen - what you are referring to - the "armpit gyno" is probably your milk ducts swelling due to prolactin from progesterone IIRC.

Itll never "grow" into gyno, but just go puffy when its high and possibly make you lactate.

you seem to be riddled with this as well as actual gyno from reading your posts - need to get your ancilliaries under control.


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

Levorg said:


> Took me three goes at this place to get a half decent result and even now when I'm warm nips look like pap.


 What did they do wrong?


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

@swole troll no scars? results 100% good?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Baka said:


> @swole troll no scars? results 100% good?


 minute

only see them from a few inches away if youre really looking for them


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

swole troll said:


> minute
> 
> only see them from a few inches away if youre really looking for them


 ok , i want to go there but I read some bad reviews too of people not satisfied at all.

Since my gyno is mostly tissue underneath/between fat , I'm scared they don't take enough of it and that it leave me with scars/ weird chest .

My gyno isn't big , no one notice it but I do and I can't use AAS because I m too gyno prone that's the reason why I want to cut it

I think I'll do it in march tho , just reading some more reviews.

Is there a Doctor that is 'better' for gynecomastia surgery then others?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Baka said:


> ok , i want to go there but I read some bad reviews too of people not satisfied at all.
> 
> Since my gyno is mostly tissue underneath/between fat , I'm scared they don't take enough of it and that it leave me with scars/ weird chest .
> 
> ...


 Wojciech Berendt performed my surgery and I was told by Adam he has the highest head count for gyno removal

tbh its a fairly simple op, bit of cratering is possible but generally if you follow the post surgical advice to the letter you should be satisfied

and besides youll look a damn sight better, be healthier and feel better for not having glands and having to take loads of AI's


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

@swole troll

-Which cream/oil did you use for the massage?

-Did you kept the compression vest 24/7 , even during your light workouts ? during sleep?

-How did you manage to wash ? I've read that you can't take showers for some time ?

-What were the supplements/drugs you used to accelerate the healing ?

Thanks , will get mine done in the coming months


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Baka said:


> @swole troll
> 
> -Which cream/oil did you use for the massage?
> 
> ...


 *Bold*


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## Iridium (Mar 30, 2020)

@swole troll

Was the lipo suction and gland removal 2 grand?

How was the post operation care, how did you deal with drainage?

Are you happy with the results 2 and a half years on?

What was the name of the surgery and would you recommend it?

Cheers mate.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Iridium said:


> @swole troll
> 
> Was the lipo suction and gland removal 2 grand?
> 
> ...


 yes mate 300cc from each pec

didn't ask for any pseudogyno removal since I was just carrying bit of fat at the time that I'd have easily dieted off but they're use to working with general public so want to leave an instant result but I was only really interested in the gland being removed so that was just an added bonus

it was £1400 for the surgery, the £2000 was total cost as in from the moment I set up the surgery to arriving back from poland in a taxi (the 2 grand covered my mrs travel costs too)

been happy as the day I had it done since all I was really after was the gland removal since I was fed up of being controlled by nipple irritation and being forced to use at time excessive serms and AIs

now I've been as high as 1500mg test with no AI and no issues at all.

do I recommend it?

well if you don't like having oestrogen receptive glands behind your nipples then yes

if not then no it would be two thousand pounds on removing something that doesn't bother you


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## Iridium (Mar 30, 2020)

swole troll said:


> yes mate 300cc from each pec
> 
> didn't ask for any pseudogyno removal since I was just carrying bit of fat at the time that I'd have easily dieted off but they're use to working with general public so want to leave an instant result but I was only really interested in the gland being removed so that was just an added bonus
> 
> ...


 Sounds good mate,

Did you sue the noa clinic?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Iridium said:


> Sounds good mate,
> 
> Did you sue the noa clinic?


 Yep

Although the surgeon that performed my operation no longer works there I am told.


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## Iridium (Mar 30, 2020)

swole troll said:


> Yep
> 
> Although the surgeon that performed my operation no longer works there I am told.


 Cheers mate Ill let you know how it goes.


----------

