# Upper lower 4 day split



## Lewis. (Jun 16, 2019)

Hi guys, just wondering if someone could have a look at my program I'm about to start running in hopes for mainly strength to reach a 2 plate bench, 3 plate squat and 4 plate deadlift. Would also like to pack on size in the process however strength is the bigger concern. I am a 17 year old novice lifter and have been running a bro split since the start of the year however the personal trainer I paid for gave me a bullshit program that has given me massive strength and muscular imbalances. I can bench 70kg for 5, squat 70kg for 5 and deadlift 80kg for 5 at the moment. I have just over a year to reach my strength goals so I am hoping changing my split for something better suited to naturals would help. Thanks a lot.

UPPER A



Bench Press 3x5


BB Row 3x5


Seated OHP/ Military Standing OHP 3x5


Lat Pulldown 2x8-10


Push Ups 2xFailure


Face Pull 3x6-8


EZ Bicep Curl 3x5-8


OH Tricep Extension 3x5-8


Side Deltoid Raise 3x5-8


Isolation Bicep 2xFailure


Isolation Tricep 2xFailure


LOWER A



Back Squat 5x5


RM Deadlift 3x5


Leg Press 3x5


Gluteus Raise 3x8-10


Leg Extension 3x8-10


Weighted Ab 3x10


REST



Home Bodyweight Ab Work


UB



Weighted Chin Ups 3x5


Weighted Chest Dips 3x5


Dumbbell Row 3x6-8


Incline Dumbbell Press 3x6-8


Rear Deltoid Fly 3x10-12


Arnold Press 3x6-8


Isolation Bicep 3x6 superset to failure


Isolation Tricep 3x6 superset to failure


LB



Conventional Deadlift 8x3


Leg Press 3x5


Hack Squat 3x6-8


Hamstring Curl 3xFailure


Dumbbell Lunge 3x8-10


Weighted Ab 3x10


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## DRKE (Feb 25, 2019)

@Endomorph84

@nWo

@AestheticManlet

These guys will be much better placed to help you out with that routine plan mate, but just wondering with your diet:

- what weight were you when you started?

- what weight are you now?

- what's your current calorie consumption daily? And gram split between Carbs, Protein and Fats?

Also, what's your overall goal weight wise? I ask as that's amazing if you're already doing weighted dips and pull ups. I'm still struggling along at Bodyweight with those. But I'm on a straight up bulking plan going for size so the weight gain counters me on body movements still.


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Lewis. said:


> Hi guys, just wondering if someone could have a look at my program I'm about to start running in hopes for mainly strength to reach a 2 plate bench, 3 plate squat and 4 plate deadlift. Would also like to pack on size in the process however strength is the bigger concern. I am a 17 year old novice lifter and have been running a bro split since the start of the year however the personal trainer I paid for gave me a bullshit program that has given me massive strength and muscular imbalances. I can bench 70kg for 5, squat 70kg for 5 and deadlift 80kg for 5 at the moment. I have just over a year to reach my strength goals so I am hoping changing my split for something better suited to naturals would help. Thanks a lot.


 Hi mate, that's a very low volume demanding split and the exercises are all over the place. On rest day, rest, no need to train abs/ core. They're called rest days for a reason.
If you complete all exercises in upper A after doing 3x5 on Bench Press, BB Row and OHP then you haven't trained the first 2 exercises hard enough. It is as simple as that.
You have set yourself reasonable goals, kudos to that. Any particular reason you want them numbers? Are you looking at getting into power lifting?

Where did you get the program from?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

As said above really, far too much work there. If you're after a solid upper/lower routine then try either Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine or PHUL (Power-Hypertrophy Upper/Lower).


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## Lewis. (Jun 16, 2019)

Endomorph84 said:


> Hi mate, that's a very low volume demanding split and the exercises are all over the place. On rest day, rest, no need to train abs/ core. They're called rest days for a reason.
> If you complete all exercises in upper A after doing 3x5 on Bench Press, BB Row and OHP then you haven't trained the first 2 exercises hard enough. It is as simple as that.
> You have set yourself reasonable goals, kudos to that. Any particular reason you want them numbers? Are you looking at getting into power lifting?
> 
> Where did you get the program from?


 I structured the program myself after watching Steve shaws massive iron YouTube channel and video on creating an UL split. Was thinking of the low rep ranges because my main goal is strength. From all the research I've done many people have said for a natural novice lifter you only need to focus on getting stronger. Would it be a better idea to have a strength day and a hypertrophy day so you get the benefits of all rep ranges per week? I tried out upper A workout today and I saw a noticeable increase in strength already however this is probably just because I'm used to running a bro split. My long term goal is simply to get jacked however at the moment I'm not worried about size.


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## Lewis. (Jun 16, 2019)

DRKE said:


> @Endomorph84
> 
> @nWo
> 
> ...


 Hi mate I've never consistently tracked my weight as when I started lifting I was severely skinny fat and I am still trying to pack enough muscle on to get a rock hard physique. I can tell you when I tried to loose as much weight as possible (because I didn't realise skinny fat existed, I just thought I was regular fat) I leaned out to 9 stone 6 however I had no muscle mass. When I first stepped into the gym I was using 4kg dumbbells for pressing?, now I can bench with 25kg on each side. As far as diet goes I just listened to my personal trainer who told me to aim for a thousand more calories that I was eating, he advised mainly clean carbs and protein probably in the ratio of 50% carbs 35% p and 15% fat. However from my experience I now know this is not ideal as I gained weight FAST.


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Lewis. said:


> From all the research I've done many people have said for a natural novice lifter you only need to focus on getting stronger. Would it be a better idea to have a strength day and a hypertrophy day so you get the benefits of all rep ranges per week? I tried out upper A workout today and I saw a noticeable increase in strength already however this is probably just because I'm used to running a bro split. My long term goal is simply to get jacked however at the moment I'm not worried about size.


 You don't need a strength day and a hypertrophy day mate, do all rep ranges in a workout. If being jacked is your primary concern then you want to be training in the 6-12 rep range IMO. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do more or less.

For example, when I train rear delts I do them for sets of 15-20 with an RPE of 9. Slow and controlled, it burns!! When I do squats and deads I like to train sets of 3-5, tops.

RE: macros, you only need a surplus of 200-300 cals mate. keep protein to 1g per lb of body weight, fat as low as possible and carbs the rest. What do you weigh now?

RE: your split, check out the link below. Its what I used to make my first U/L split and I loved it.

https://www.fitmole.org/upper-lower-split/


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## DRKE (Feb 25, 2019)

Lewis. said:


> Hi mate I've never consistently tracked my weight as when I started lifting I was severely skinny fat and I am still trying to pack enough muscle on to get a rock hard physique. I can tell you when I tried to loose as much weight as possible (because I didn't realise skinny fat existed, I just thought I was regular fat) I leaned out to 9 stone 6 however I had no muscle mass. When I first stepped into the gym I was using 4kg dumbbells for pressing?, now I can bench with 25kg on each side. As far as diet goes I just listened to my personal trainer who told me to aim for a thousand more calories that I was eating, he advised mainly clean carbs and protein probably in the ratio of 50% carbs 35% p and 15% fat. However from my experience I now know this is not ideal as I gained weight FAST.


 I'd start tracking mate. As your weight alters so will your macros. Weigh yourself next opportunity and run your macros. As Endomorph says, as long as you're running your calories 200-300 surplus you should be fine and see decent gains. I weigh myself weekly and have adjusted my macros so many times. Started out last April, as a beanpole, 6-4 and weighing around 70KG. I'm 104KG 14 months later.

See the the link in the above post for your training schedule and get your diet nailed down and results will follow. Personally I wouldn't worry about gaining a bit too much fat this early on. It's a hell of a lot easier to burn fat than it is to gain muscle. I'd rather make sure I'm getting maximum muscle gains and sort out cutting if/when I get to that. Each to their own though.

Good luck either way bud


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## Ferenor (Jun 27, 2018)

Endomorph84 said:


> You don't need a strength day and a hypertrophy day mate, do all rep ranges in a workout. If being jacked is your primary concern then you want to be training in the 6-12 rep range IMO. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do more or less.
> 
> For example, when I train rear delts I do them for sets of 15-20 with an RPE of 9. Slow and controlled, it burns!! When I do squats and deads I like to train sets of 3-5, tops.
> 
> ...


 What are your thoughts on this article suggesting a total reps volume? I remember @swole troll talking about Lyle's sets volume suggestion per week (10-20 set for muscle group per week) but nothing about total reps per muscle group.


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Ferenor said:


> What are your thoughts on this article suggesting a total reps volume? I remember @swole troll talking about Lyle's sets volume suggestion per week (10-20 set for muscle group per week) but nothing about total reps per muscle group.


 Short answer - It's a good place to start tbf. Saying that 10-20 might be optimal for some people and or muscle groups but not for all. It's all personal mate, trial and error, see what works for yourself. Or rather, what you prefer.

If you're unsure what to do then ask yourself, why should someone do 3-4 sets of 8 and 12 when the same can be done in 1 or 2 sets tops. As long as you stick to the basic principles of rep ranges, intensity and diet then you'll get the result you're after.

To elaborate, I've followed workouts created by Dr Mike Izratel, Jeff Nippard, Layne Norton, Texas Method, Cube Method, 5/3/1, John Meadows, Dorian Yates, Laurence Shalei, Terry Hollands, Neil Hill, Hanny Rambod.

Where the above people all program workouts differently (whether that's the coupling of muscle groups or the amounts of sets per exercise) they all have one thing in common, they all use the same rep ranges for strength, hypertrophy and endurance (in Neil Hills Y3T case). But they all produce the same end goal.

Ive even followed workouts from people off this forum (Aesthetic Manlets mostly). Again, One thing they all have in common is the rep ranges for strength and hypertrophy being the same.

For the past year or so I have been working up to one max effort set on the majority of exercises with around 6-8 exercises per workout and I love it.

Ive just got John Meadows new Odin Force workout, I've tried the push session and it's brutal. Vast majority of exercises are 1 max set, some isolation exercises have 2 working sets and there are drop sets and cluster sets in there, I'm looking forward to being able to do a full week once I'm out my leg brace.

Try something new mate. Whether is 10x10 German volume or DY HIT style, the worst that can happen is you don't like it. It's not gonna be a waste of time. Plus, time is on your side.

Good luck and chose well. May the odds be ever in your favour.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ferenor said:


> What are your thoughts on this article suggesting a total reps volume? I remember @swole troll talking about Lyle's sets volume suggestion per week (10-20 set for muscle group per week) but nothing about total reps per muscle group.


https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/328043-rant-on-recent-hypertrophy-volume-recommendations/?do=embed

tbh you can make gains on even less than 10 sets if you are pushing to balls out total failure DY style

equally if its a ton of metabolic pump you can make gains off of over 20 sets its just not a training style i enjoy

the biggest factor is progressive overload period

provided the total tonnage shifted is going up, youre g2g

EDIT - I agree with @Endomorph84

nothing is wasted and youll keep progressing if your intensity and effort is right 
plus you learn more about what works best for you and your muscle groups by trying all these different methods

worse thing you can ever do is think you have it sussed and stick your fingers in your ears
ive switched things around and changed my stance many times, the trick is not to do it so much so that you dont give things a fair trial


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## Ferenor (Jun 27, 2018)

swole troll said:


> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/328043-rant-on-recent-hypertrophy-volume-recommendations/?do=embed
> 
> tbh you can make gains on even less than 10 sets if you are pushing to balls out total failure DY style
> 
> ...


 Well Looks like I have everything in check except for patience lol


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Ferenor said:


> Well Looks like I have everything in check except for patience lol


 Ain't that right mate lol.

:beer:


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Just seen this. Looks like all has been mentioned really. :thumbup1:


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