# howdy all from an unusual indivdual.



## -Pebbles- (Jul 18, 2010)

Howdy guys and gals I'm pebbles I'm 23 from south of England I'm a Biology student and part time Waitress.

My reasons for visiting you are abit different from most but non-the-less comprehensive.

I'm actually not a body builder and although I like my guys slightly muscled I'm not into gigantisism. 

I am actually a Male to Female Transsexual, *please don't hate!* >_<

But basically due to the extreme social stigma because of what I am and the NHS begin disinterested in helping me I am I'm forced to self-medicate my own hormone regime of injectible estrogen and T-blockers. (A pretty radical subversion of what you guys are normally all about I know  )

I am a member of various Transgender support groups but they all condemn self medication for personal political acceptance thus won't help me in any way.

This means I'm mostly reading about howto inject oil E suspension into my bum safely where to buy clean needles and avoid putting myself in A&E or the Morgue.

I also have quite a diverse social circle and I know a FTM Transsexual (Female to Male Transsexual) who is a casual gym goer of course he takes Testosterone injections to develop him as a male. and a Cis-Male (Normal guy) who is an athlete (Tennis) but abit willowy and is considering taking T supplements I will also seek out information for him.

And the final reason I'm curious about those women identified as women who take steroids and the truly alien to me mindset they must have, and if Males experiencing Gynomastica and acquisition of female elements felt the same way I did during my puberty. (IE it's pure body horror and kills you inside)

Image should be of a 14 year old screaming and crying spending entire days in-front of the mirror pulling their facial hair out.

Sorry TMI :/

Anywho's I hope you don't mind my short stoopover ^_^


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

-Pebbles- said:


> This means I'm mostly reading about howto inject oil E suspension into my bum safely where to buy clean needles and avoid putting myself in A&E or the Morgue.


Is it IM injections you would have to do?

If so - http://www.spotinjections.com/ is a good site.

Also

http://www.medisave.co.uk/ for needles and all other types of stuff.

Good luck - not going to say much more as I'm pretty clueless and just a C&P warrior.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2010)

dutch_scott - 

Hes the man to ask as he went the other way around - (so i was informed) and perhaps more sensitive to gender challenged and changed people - very experienced guy - lots of valuable knowledge he pours out over the threads- collected and stored by many. Best of luck with the info.


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi and welcome to uk-m

Curious about women who use steroids? What would you like to know? Why would women who use gear have a totally alien mindset? They are NOT aiming for masculine side effects, they are aiming for better body-without the masculine side effects(careful choice of drugs and doses make it quite easy) Clear masculinisation would be marked down on the stage for those that compete.....

Don't know if i'm having a sunday afternoon brainmelt, did you think that girls who use steroids were hoping for the masculine look? If its me having a brainmelt then i apologise, i'm blonde and on next to no carbs


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## chrisj28 (Sep 20, 2008)

Hello and welcome peebles. I can not help with your questions but i hope you find someone who can help best of luck.


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## Ocuana (Jul 17, 2010)

Well; I was about to introduce myself in another thread but read through this one first.

Impressed with the mature replies so far and also to you Pebbles for taking such a step and searching out knowledge in such a way.

Yetiman - is that you dude, from CW forums? lol.

I'd be interested to see how this thread takes shape further (if at all).

Will.


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## strange_days (Aug 6, 2009)

Welcome.

One of the most interesting first threads I have ever read on here. Good luck finding answers to your questions.


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

Ocuana said:


> Yetiman - is that you dude, from CW forums? lol.
> 
> Will.


Haha, hey Will mate how you doing?

Certainty is.

Welcome bro


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

Hello Pebbles, nice name


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## -Pebbles- (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys ^_^ I will certainly look up those links you provided. Yes it is an IM injection.



Mrs Weeman said:


> Hi and welcome to uk-m
> 
> Curious about women who use steroids? What would you like to know? Why would women who use gear have a totally alien mindset? They are NOT aiming for masculine side effects, they are aiming for better body-without the masculine side effects(careful choice of drugs and doses make it quite easy) Clear masculinisation would be marked down on the stage for those that compete.....
> 
> Don't know if i'm having a sunday afternoon brainmelt, did you think that girls who use steroids were hoping for the masculine look? If its me having a brainmelt then i apologise, i'm blonde and on next to no carbs


I guess I have a fundamentally different view of T to you where for you I suppose you see it as a substance that gives you energy vigor and strength.

To me... It mutilated me, Nearly killed me and left me needing to work for months on my voice, hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds of painful electrolysis, caused me to be Treated lower than a stray dog, spat on, laughed at, alienated... For what? So that I can turn into the androgynous ugly signet within my group of friends, Whom no guy will ever approach in that manner and everyone knows why.

Sorry about the self hate but it's necessary

I just have a hard time understanding why any woman, Would risk acquiring such a life. I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy Of course it's your choice but it's just... difficult for me to understand. I would give nearly anything to have never have been touched by such a hormone.


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Not everyone is as ignorant as you feel they are, i know plenty of pre and post ops who are happily in relationships, granted most have experienced the ignorance that you mention above, but that doesn't mean that you are doomed to a lonely unhappy life hun, keep your chin up and keep going, you will find someone special and eventually be able to deal with ignorant fukks without them upsetting you:thumbup1:

I can assure you, i am at NO risk of becoming masculine and having to go through what you have suffered. All of the women here are very feminine, even the ones who use gear:thumbup1:

Be careful what you do with the estrogen hun...if you think test is the hormone from hell....wait till you feel estrogen, it can turn even the most stable of women into a complete nutter:whistling:


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

Hi Pebbles. Great to have you here.

Two of my partying buddies are M2F transexuals (1 pre op and 1 post op). My preop friend did a substantial course of self medication to block the test production as well as the estrogen supplementation. From what I recall the blocking of the testosterone was more of an issue that the estrogen supplementation, and had a greater effect on overall aesthetics.

I will make some enquiries if you wish, but if I can be of any further assistance please feel free to get in touch. I find your situation most interesting.

All the best,

J


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## strange_days (Aug 6, 2009)

^^^^ - This man knows what he is talking about


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## BabyYoYo (Mar 7, 2008)

Welcome Pebbles,

I along with most others here know sweet FA about what you need to know, but there is a wealth of knowledge here and it almost goes without saying that someone will be happy to help you.

Great introduction post, it must have taken a lot of courage - reactions as you know will always vary 

Best of luck with everything

x


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## coflex (May 10, 2010)

hey pebbles...good luck with everything...

when you get your new breasticles, send me a pic and i'll mark them out of 10 for you.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey Pebbles hope it all works out well for you 

Do you have any pics lol?

EDIT: Thats not me in my avatar, im a guy


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## avril (Mar 5, 2005)

hi pebbles..welcome to ukm...can i ask..why is the NHS not helping you? i had a board member a few years ago who was also a MTF..and i spent many an hour on the phone with her listening to all the $hit she went through with her experience and also her acceptance with family and friends etc...but she was given full support by her doctor and her local clinics..


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

BTW - if needles scare you at the moment, checkout dutasteride (also known as avodart ). It is a drug which dramatically reduces testosterone from converting into its stronger form. What T-blockers are you already on / looking at?

In practice, it will quickly reduce sex drive, change the way in which one sees the world to a softer perspective, and it also changes the skin (albeit slowly) from that seen in males to that seen in females and prepubescent children.

The downside of this is that avodart needs to be taken for life, but it may help especially whilst you are organising support from the NHS. I would keep on with the NHS as avril said. I know that some trusts see transgender interventions as elective, but from what I gather, most will provide some help in the end. Digging in for a long drawn out fight with them over the next few years seems a lot easier to deal with if you have already taken the power into your own hands, are seeing visible progress in your transformation, and those changes are at your control not that of others.

J


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

Welcome to the board! I'm sure you'll find a lot of help here, we're a very open bunch of people, it's why I love being on here.


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## -Pebbles- (Jul 18, 2010)

Joshua said:


> BTW - if needles scare you at the moment, checkout dutasteride (also known as avodart ). It is a drug which dramatically reduces testosterone from converting into its stronger form. What T-blockers are you already on / looking at?
> 
> In practice, it will quickly reduce sex drive, change the way in which one sees the world to a softer perspective, and it also changes the skin (albeit slowly) from that seen in males to that seen in females and prepubescent children.
> 
> ...


 I already know about the T-blockers and medicines I need to take and dosages I was previously begin supervised by a doctor whom decided he didn't want to help me anymore he was always kinda tentative about helping me and a minor argument resulted in him not helping me anymore... I've already been taking some hormones for 6 months so I have small chesticles But I don't intend to show them to you guys, there tiny anyway and not exactly impressive at this stage XD

Your actually abit confused Joshua Dutastride is a Dihydro-Testosterone blocker only, Whitch is a potent metabolite of Testosterone DHT is what triggers most of the facial hair growth and male pattern hairloss.

Although it's a DHT only Antagonist I am taking it, For reasons I will explain in a moment.

While I was with the Doc he would prescribe me a single Combined medication that was a T & DHT blocker Cyproterone Acetate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyproterone

However That medication carries with is a moderate liver toxicity risk which early signs can only be detected with periodic AZT and enzyme test. so instead while self-medding I've switched to the Less toxic T only blocker Spironolactone, and I'm also taking Dutastride for the DHT blocking effects getting the same effect from two non-toxic medications.

My anti-androgens come in pill form and I pretty much have to take them everyday forever until I loose the Testicles whitch might be many years away as your generally not allowed to castrate someone these days even if the testis don't work like mine (all my little swimmers are floaters, And infact the pond is starting to dry out too  (testicular & Prostrate atrophication from lack of T)) :/ frustrating for me... Even dogs are allowed to get spayed. (Citizen tranny = Lower than a dog)

It's just that The only Estrogen's available to from a source I trust are the injectible kind. Estrogen Valerate Whitch is why I needed to know howto inject it IM although I did use one of them last night and everything turned out okay. I will have to take this injection every week FOREVER which is kinda scary v_v

Photos of me? Urr okay. I hope other transgender people I know aren't looking at this (FTMs might be they often are into bodybuilding) and don't recognize me, It might be complicated if they know I'm self medding and may potentially cause a fuss for me.










(Taken a month ago soz about the sun messing up the shot)










(A year ago with the pink hair)


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

-Pebbles- said:


> I already know about the T-blockers and medicines I need to take and dosages I was previously begin supervised by a doctor whom decided he didn't want to help me anymore he was always kinda tentative about helping me and a minor argument resulted in him not helping me anymore... I've already been taking some hormones for 6 months so I have small chesticles But I don't intend to show them to you guys, there tiny anyway and not exactly impressive at this stage XD
> 
> Your actually abit confused Joshua Dutastride is a Dihydro-Testosterone blocker only, Whitch is a potent metabolite of Testosterone DHT is what triggers most of the facial hair growth and male pattern hairloss.
> 
> ...


If your doc is not willing to help you anymore, or you do not get on, maybe it is time to find a new doc or change practice.

I am familiar with dutasteride's mechanism of action, however I was not sure how aware you were of the metabolism of testosterone. Dutasteride is not a antagonist of DHT, but inhibits both isozyme that converts T to DHT, however the spiro will act as an antagonist. The inhibition of type I & II 5aReductase will have quite extensive effects, not only on hair and skin, but in a variety of tissue types including the CNS. DHT in itself is considerably more potent agonist of the androgen receptor having more acute and longer signalling as a result. Blocking the effect of 5aReductase should have a considerable effect on total androgen signalling.

The spiro can have its sides too, especially if you have other supps in the mix (K+ interactions). Very few meds are completely non-toxic.

The combination of avodart and spiro are unlikely to have some, but limited effect on testicular mass, as they are working downstream of the hypertrophy signal for the sertoli cells (the prime factor in testicular mass ). To reduce testicular mass effectively, pharmacologically, one would need to go upstream to LH (and FSH) secretion. I can understand your desire for surgical intervention though, although I appreciate that your doc may have concerns regarding the finality of such a move. I do know that some private clinics overseas (Thai) offer this to a high standard, but there is cost, and one must be absolutely sure as there will be no going back.

All the best,

J


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## SALKev (Feb 28, 2009)

I might not agree on your choices or respect you for them but I certainly DO respect you for having the guts to come and share your problems with 30,000 high testosterone individuals.

Hope you have a good time here at UK-M :beer:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Pebbles i can totally understand why your doing this, im not in your boat but i understand every type of sexuality and i think its great that you have had the guts to go through with what your doing :thumbup1:

Oh i have a few questions if you don't mind 

How do you eventually get the womanly curves from a males body, i have seen some very convincing TV/TS out and about and think a lot of work must go in to building that body, in the same way as us bodybuilders are sculpting our body but the opposite if you know what i mean.

Also how did your friends / family react to your choices?

Oh and i know a guy down south who's a Royal Marine, he's very good looking and he's in to people like you lol. If you want hooking up i could ask him, he's a sound dude and in good shape :thumbup1:


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## -Pebbles- (Jul 18, 2010)

The Raptor said:


> Pebbles i can totally understand why your doing this, im not in your boat but i understand every type of sexuality and i think its great that you have had the guts to go through with what your doing :thumbup1:
> 
> Oh i have a few questions if you don't mind
> 
> ...


estrogen causes a significant degree of feminisation without T to counteract it, it causes fat to be redistributed, around the hips, belly, and bum and without T muscles will thin out significantly and your face will change somewhat. It also causes aforementioned breast development, giving you reasonable curves (Although most transwomen tend to be smaller chest wise and have less curves than a natural woman) as I never worked out I don't have massive shoulders.

If you are really lucky and start Estrogen before the end of your puberty age 19 or less your bones will shift into the female configuration IE female hips I probably just missed that opportunity starting Hormones at 22 which is abit poo.

My friends all figured it out based on my appearance and behavior and many have confided they've known for the majority of the time they've known me by the time I told them and were all really accepting. My sister was the same. My mother, She was angry at first but she seems to be getting over it. And my dad is an emotionally stifled idiot He said lots of drooling stupid things that betray his idiocy to which I didn't listen to.

and I will decline your pimping offer  That downstairs junk don't work XD Seriously without any T at all it's a marathon to even get the darn thing up. That ignoring the massive hangups I have with even touching let alone using the deformity.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Woah extremely interesting! I know what you mean about opposite views as i love being a man ! Lolyou will find answers and be happy  im sure x


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## Jungle (Mar 9, 2009)

Welcome to UKM mate


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## iron head case (Jul 2, 2008)

Welcome to UKM, good luck with everything


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## strange_days (Aug 6, 2009)

Respect for putting pics up, you got some stength of character for sure


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## Hobbio (Jul 9, 2010)

Good for you! I'm not opposed to anyone's sexuality or gender self image at all and I wish you all the best friend  .


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## Blood&amp;Sweat1 (Jun 16, 2010)

Hey welcome to the forum, its always nice to see something different posted.


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## dman (Jun 15, 2009)

why have you chosen to inject estrogen?


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## -Pebbles- (Jul 18, 2010)

dman said:


> why have you chosen to inject estrogen?


 Two reasons.

1: injectible estrogen carries a much lower blood clot risk.

2: I can only get injectible E the source I'm getting from they don't sell tablet form. They do have Transdermal estrogen but it's prohibitively expensive.


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## dman (Jun 15, 2009)

http://transhealth.transadvocacy.org/Protocols/Some%20Typical%20Hormone%20Regimens.htm


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