# If there are any lifters out there help a brother out



## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

If there is anyone who actually trains as it seems most on here don't then please help me out with this one

my goal is size not strength and my question is should I be doing the big compound lifts first or the assesory Work first to warm up?

Ive always thought the big movements first e.g. Chest to start flat bench then incline or decline db the movements I'm going heavy on then finish with the cables, flys ect?

Reason I ask I've joined a new bodybuilding gym not a chain fitness crap one and quite a few big lads who compete in Northern Ireland own and train there I always see them start with chest press machine, cables and pec Dec then move onto pressing same as shoulders I see them doing front and side raises before doing shoulder press

or is it one of those 6 of one half a dozen of the other scenario?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Tricky said:


> If there is anyone who actually trains as it seems *most on here don't* then please help me out with this one
> 
> my goal is size not strength and my question is should I be doing the big compound lifts first or the assesory Work first to warm up?
> 
> ...


 Wtf do you keep saying that... always seems like you're having a bit of a dig at someone or ukm. If you didn't post in general con then you might get more success.

As for your question you answered it on the last line... there isn't just one way to train. Most important factor in my book is consistency. If someone cruises at 80-90% of what they are capable of (diet and training) then they will stall with progress very quickly.


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Advice:

Compounds first always.

Get knackered.

If any oomph left, then do accessories.

Background:

Thats for new and intermediate. Advanced and competitors are different animals

Authority:

I lift compound only 30-45 mins. Saves time and enables me to be a dad or a husband or a businessman.

Used to do 2 hours daily. Didn't grow my body or my business and didn't see my family.

Conclusion:

Not talking down to you but as well as get to know your body also revisit your life priorites


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

AncientOldBloke said:


> Advice:
> 
> Compounds first always.
> 
> ...


 quality comment mate


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

What does the question have to do with the thread title?

But yes, it makes sense to do major compound exercises before any accessory lifts.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Tricky said:


> If there is anyone who actually trains as it seems most on here don't then please help me out with this one
> 
> my goal is size not strength and my question is should I be doing the big compound lifts first or the assesory Work first to warm up?
> 
> ...


 no fvckers on here lift

uk-no-muscle.co.uk


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

As a general training principle - compounds first. They are the basic exercises that give you the most bang for your buck.

But advanced trainers sometimes like to shake things up a bit with techniques like pre-exhaust, so will do lateral raises before shoulder presses etc.

As said above, there isn't just one way to train, especially as you get more advanced.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

ILLBehaviour said:


> no fvckers on here lift
> 
> uk-no-muscle.co.uk


 Least 20% of active posters do... I think :thumb


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Ross1991 said:


> Least 20% of active posters do... I think :thumb


 crossfit and yoga dont count mate.


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Don't get why people cry about chain gyms. Do their 20kg plates not weigh the same as big manly knuckle scraper gyms.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

ILLBehaviour said:


> crossfit and yoga dont count mate.


 Fvck make it about 3% then.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

2004mark said:


> Wtf do you keep saying that... always seems like you're having a bit of a dig at someone or ukm. If you didn't post in general con then you might get more success.
> 
> As for your question you answered it on the last line... there isn't just one way to train. Most important factor in my book is consistency. If someone cruises at 80-90% of what they are capable of (diet and training) then they will stall with progress very quickly.


 Have to agree with this seems like you've just joined and then just spent the majority of your time on here calling disclosure a pedo. noone talks about lifting in gen con, plenty of lifting talk in the advanced bb, natty bb etc sections.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Ross1991 said:


> Fvck make it about 3% then.


 think we need some 3% 5 gallon jugs up in here.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

ILLBehaviour said:


> think we need some 3% 5 gallon jugs up in here.


 Defo #3%ErsUnite


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

DappaDonDave said:


> Don't get why people cry about chain gyms. Do their 20kg plates not weigh the same as big manly knuckle scraper gyms.


 Atmosphere, chain gyms usually full of ball sacks. Fanny is generally tremendous however.

i train in a pure gym but I've had a few sessions in hardcore gyms or whatever you'd like to call them. Much better atmosphere to train in imo. There always seems to be an air of awkwardness or something in my usually gym but it's cheap and round the corner from my work.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Pre-exhausting is a concept I've never understood the logic of to be honest.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Pre-exhausting is a concept I've never understood the logic of to be honest.


 Better mind muscle connection I'm led to believe. I think it's maybe a good idea to get the blood in with some isolation work but actually exhausting the muscle before compound I think sounds counter productive.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Pre-exhausting is a concept I've never understood the logic of to be honest.


 One application I really like to use it is when targeting hams with SLDL... when I don't pre exhaust (which I often don't) other areas of the posterior chain will start to fail before the hams (as they are quite large in comparison). But if I really want to hit the hams then if I pre exhaust them first they really get hit hard.


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Sphinkter said:


> Atmosphere, chain gyms usually full of ball sacks. Fanny is generally tremendous however.
> 
> i train in a pure gym but I've had a few sessions in hardcore gyms or whatever you'd like to call them. Much better atmosphere to train in imo. There always seems to be an air of awkwardness or something in my usually gym but it's cheap and round the corner from my work.


 Earphones in, world out.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

2004mark said:


> Wtf do you keep saying that... always seems like you're having a bit of a dig at someone or ukm. If you didn't post in general con then you might get more success.
> 
> As for your question you answered it on the last line... there isn't just one way to train. Most important factor in my book is consistency. If someone cruises at 80-90% of what they are capable of (diet and training) then they will stall with progress very quickly.


 Seems my post upset you quite some for your 'wtf' regarding the gen con Ive used the subsections and after a few days with one or now replies I've came to realise this is where the traffic is. Didn't think that would upset you so much. Ive just made an obsvertation from people's posts and reading threads many don't train any more or just like to be here for trolling or chit chat in general. I'm sure many do train and do train seriously as I always keep a nosy at the members journals and transformation thread but my comment was simply a tounge and cheek one that got a good bite of you anyway


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Your comment is basically disrespecting the men of Uk muscle so in that case


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Sphinkter said:


> Have to agree with this seems like you've just joined and then just spent the majority of your time on here calling disclosure a pedo. noone talks about lifting in gen con, plenty of lifting talk in the advanced bb, natty bb etc sections.


 Actually I think he was agreeing with Disclosure and I'm fair sure that they're "friends" now. Inb4pedophilecircle


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

AncientOldBloke said:


> Advice:
> 
> Compounds first always.
> 
> ...


 Revisit my life priorities? If you could please elaborate what you mean as I stumped to how my life priorities need rearranged or addressed from asking a method of training. Not having a dig at all just generally interested how you thought that revelant and interested more so what areas need addressed


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ross1991 said:


> Least 20% of active posters do... I think :thumb


 Make it 90% mate but yes you can say 20% look like they lift


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> Your comment is basically disrespecting the men of Uk muscle so in that case
> 
> View attachment 139937


 Not true it's disrespecting the 'men' who do not lift but engage in competitive trolling so to that end I'm not fu**ing off any direction


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

I lift heavy ass weights

I start in the cafe and have my pwo shake first then dive fully clothed into the pool before hitting the incline, mix it up


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Post your current pic and let them make the best out of you. It will peace out the things..lol


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

DappaDonDave said:


> Don't get why people cry about chain gyms. Do their 20kg plates not weigh the same as big manly knuckle scraper gyms.


 Only one squat rack and when your have 220kg worth of plates deadlifting and people start to ask when will you finish because they need the plates to bench it does become quite tedious


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Post your current pic and let them make the best out of you. It will peace out the things..lol


 I did yesterday in another thread. I don't make wild claims or post fabricated sh1t. I'm just getting back to training after years off but even when I trained before I was never serious so trying to get advise so I can start of right and not spin my wheels wasting time doing the wrong things


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Heavyassweights said:


> I lift heavy ass weights
> 
> I start in the cafe and have my pwo shake first then dive fully clothed into the pool before hitting the incline, mix it up


 See it's advise like that is no use for me as I've left the pool life and chain gyms behind bro


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Tricky said:


> Seems my post upset you quite some for your 'wtf' regarding the gen con Ive used the subsections and after a few days with one or now replies I've came to realise this is where the traffic is. Didn't think that would upset you so much. Ive just made an obsvertation from people's posts and reading threads many don't train any more or just like to be here for trolling or chit chat in general. I'm sure many do train and do train seriously as I always keep a nosy at the members journals and transformation thread but my comment was simply a tounge and cheek one that got a good bite of you anyway


 Thing is, that is a classic reply of a troll. Thinking you've won the internet because someone bit by saying 'wtf' lol


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Heavyassweights said:


> I lift heavy ass weights


 I've always been afraid to ask what these 'ass weights' are that you claim to lift ?.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I've always been afraid to ask what these 'ass weights' are that you claim to lift ?.


 He is inspired by Ronnie Coleman


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Tricky said:


> I did yesterday in another thread. I don't make wild claims or post fabricated sh1t. I'm just getting back to training after years off but even when I trained before I was never serious so trying to get advise so I can start of right and not spin my wheels wasting time doing the wrong things


 You could have asked in a better way pal.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

2004mark said:


> One application I really like to use it is when targeting hams with SLDL... when I don't pre exhaust (which I often don't) other areas of the posterior chain will start to fail before the hams (as they are quite large in comparison). But if I really want to hit the hams then if I pre exhaust them first they really get hit hard.


 Makes sense, same for squats as well it's rarely the quads that fail is it - usually something in the posterior chain that cause form the break down for me anyway.


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## Shaneyboy (May 21, 2013)

OP joins in January, spends most of time in Gen Con then slags off UKM members and hops on Disclosure bashing bandwagon in order to fit in.

i only started using Gen Con in last year after exhausting all other subsections and noting that same questions keep coming up. Gen Con is light relief but does not detract from my obsession with training and adherence to bloody boring diet and lifting when I would rather be sat on my arse.

willing to bet OP will not even be around in 6 months and will have moved to a knitting forum where he will ask after a month" does anyone here even knit?"


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Tricky said:


> Only one squat rack and when your have 220kg worth of plates deadlifting and people start to ask when will you finish because they need the plates to bench it does become quite tedious


 Xercise4less I go to has 2 squat racks, 2 deadlift platforms and separate bumper plates for deads. Dbs upto 75kg. Separate benches for flat / incline / decline etc


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## Dieseldave (Jul 8, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Pre-exhausting is a concept I've never understood the logic of to be honest.


 It makes sense if for example your triceps are overpowering your chest on bench press, pre-exhaust tris before benching to encourage more pec involvement.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Tricky said:


> quite a few big lads who compete


 This is the crux. These guys are already big.

You only need two or at most three exercises per body part. Two compounds, or two compounds and a isolation. Some compound such a bench press will work two or more body parts simultaneously so adjust accordingly. The more you do the less you progress imo.

My favourite routine is a P/P/L...

Squat, SLDL, Calf isolation.

Bench, Dips, Side Laterals, Tricep isolation.

Deads, Chins, Rear Delts, Bicep isolation.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Tricky said:


> Only one squat rack and when your have 220kg worth of plates deadlifting and people start to ask when will you finish because they need the plates to bench it does become quite tedious


 So are you repping 240kg dl then?

That's some going considering you've only just got back into training and natty! Should be packing on size nicely with lifting like that.


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)




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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

You train in a gym with lads who compete and you're asking what to do on a forum? Give your head a shake, put your big boy pants on and build up the courage to ask one of the big lads in the gym for some advice. Don't be a wet lettuce.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> He is inspired by Ronnie Coleman


 I know  .


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dieseldave said:


> It makes sense if for example your triceps are overpowering your chest on bench press, pre-exhaust tris before benching to encourage more pec involvement.


 I'm not convinced this is true.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Shaneyboy said:


> OP joins in January, spends most of time in Gen Con then slags off UKM members and hops on Disclosure bashing bandwagon in order to fit in.
> 
> i only started using Gen Con in last year after exhausting all other subsections and noting that same questions keep coming up. Gen Con is light relief but does not detract from my obsession with training and adherence to bloody boring diet and lifting when I would rather be sat on my arse.
> 
> willing to bet OP will not even be around in 6 months and will have moved to a knitting forum where he will ask after a month" does anyone here even knit?"


 What's the wager? You writing out the terms and contract? Pay pal fine?

Why does your diet diet have to be boring can you not eat foods you enjoy that meet your calorie allowance for whatever goal you have?


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

EpicSquats said:


> You train in a gym with lads who compete and you're asking what to do on a forum? Give your head a shake, put your big boy pants on and build up the courage to ask one of the big lads in the gym for some advice. Don't be a wet lettuce.


 Right ok I'll ignore the name calling. I have asked and spoke to them and got advise of sust, deca and dbol with a 5 day split and focusing on mostly machines. Seems to me they have their mass and now they are tweaking it. I need to add the mass first I guess which is why I was wondering the most efficient way but it seems the real answer is anything just progressive overload adding no weight or reps and nutrition for growth but most important consistency.

Ill report back in a few months with progress hopefully


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

2004mark said:


> So are you repping 240kg dl then?
> 
> That's some going considering you've only just got back into training and natty! Should be packing on size nicely with lifting like that.


 One rep max not repping. That was last year when I was training in one of those fitness gyms before I quit training. Strength is coming back to me eg yest I was incline dumbbell 50kg for chest. I got called out by a few memebers so will post a video my next chest day. Muscle memoery seems to be coming back in terms is strength just not size. I know it's a long road so I just need to Be consistent and have patience I guess


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Mingster said:


> This is the crux. These guys are already big.
> 
> You only need two or at most three exercises per body part. Two compounds, or two compounds and a isolation. Some compound such a bench press will work two or more body parts simultaneously so adjust accordingly. The more you do the less you progress imo.
> 
> ...


 What rep set range? Only 3 times a week? Or can you do example

push

pull

rest

legs

rest

repeat

or better to have more rest for recovery and growth?


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Pre-exhausting is a concept I've never understood the logic of to be honest.


 Well, CuzzyBrah, it works like this:

So you got a hot date at say 8pm.

You fap at 7pm then go meet her (or him for some).

Then you're chilled and listening, not horny and talkative.

You're ready for the actual proper workout around 11pm (deca allowing).


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Tricky said:


> Only one squat rack and when your have 220kg worth of plates deadlifting and people start to ask when will you finish because they need the plates to bench it does become quite tedious


 You deadlift 240kg? f**k your incline DBs im in for a video of this lift.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

AncientOldBloke said:


> Well, CuzzyBrah, it works like this:
> 
> So you got a hot date at say 8pm.
> 
> ...


 @Ultrasonic he's calling you gay mate wreck him


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

What gym do you train at?


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> no fvckers on here lift


 Yeah, I only come here to see pics of sweaty blokes glistening


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Tricky said:


> What rep set range? Only 3 times a week? Or can you do example
> 
> push
> 
> ...


 That would work perfectly IMO. There is no reason you can't train like that on a six day cycle.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Ultrasonic said:


> Pre-exhausting is a concept I've never understood the logic of to be honest.


 The way I have used it in the past is quite simply that if I do my usual compounds first then accessories afterwards is that most times I will lift x-weight, x-amount times for x-amount sets. I know this to be what I lift. E.g., bench press as my compound and flies as accessories.

So when I pre exhaust using flies, I will obviously lift more weight as my chest isn't 3/4 knackered. I'll push hard on this and then when it comes to bench press and my pecs are obviously quite exhausted, I'm now going to bench. Psychologically I know I can lift x-amount weight for x-amount reps and x-amount sets and psychologically I CAN do this.

This is where you have to be positive and believe whereas being negative you'll stop waaaay before.

I'd wager that if you calculate what loads you've shifted, you should have shifted more. Obviously the calculations should be done to allow for the percentage of load when doing flies over the bench press if that makes sense since the pectoral muscles will have or should have been hammered to a greater degree.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

AncientOldBloke said:


> Well, CuzzyBrah, it works like this:
> 
> So you got a hot date at say 8pm.
> 
> ...


 If he's natty he'll be ready for it by 8pm so maybe fap at 7:15pm in case the date turns up late?


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## workinprogress1 (Oct 1, 2015)

Tricky said:


> If there is anyone who actually trains as it seems most on here don't


 FCUK YOU!!!!!

other than that good luck luck with your goals m8  :thumbup1:


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Tricky said:


> See it's advise like that is no use for me as I've left the pool life and chain gyms behind bro


 my gym has no pool so explain that

sometimes I get ready, take my pre workout and stand in the gym just pissing myself laughing. My muscles are confused as fcuk, they thought they were going to be taking the 130s for a ride on the incline. Thatl teach they cunnts to expect the unexpected.

muscle confusion 101


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

workinprogress1 said:


> FCUK YOU!!!!!
> 
> other than that good luck luck with your goals m8  :thumbup1:


 Same to you bro! Thanks

View attachment IMG_0798.PNG


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I've always been afraid to ask what these 'ass weights' are that you claim to lift ?.


 meet me during visiting hours and I'll show you x


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Them juiced up mofo's are just warming up before they hit the heavy weight,


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Sphinkter said:


> You deadlift 240kg? f**k your incline DBs im in for a video of this lift.


 Yes that was my one rep max I cannot do that now due to an injury. I can't dead or squat at the minute. I've no reason to lie to strangers online I don't even know. I'll post a video when Im recovered from surgery. Like a few who doubted my 50kg db press I'll post a video on Monday when I train chest again

ive cut my personal details out of my consultants referal letter to show you in waiting on an MRI. As I said I've nothing to gain by lying to strangers

View attachment IMG_0799.PNG


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Heavyassweights said:


> my gym has no pool so explain that
> 
> sometimes I get ready, take my pre workout and stand in the gym just pissing myself laughing. My muscles are confused as fcuk, they thought they were going to be taking the 130s for a ride on the incline. Thatl teach they cunnts to expect the unexpected.
> 
> muscle confusion 101


 It's gainz o'clock mother ****er


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Tricky said:


> What rep set range? Only 3 times a week? Or can you do example
> 
> push
> 
> ...


 It's up to you. Only rule is no more that 20 sets a session.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Generally, compounds first. Go heavy. Then perform secondary exercises for higher reps and pump the s**t out of your last exercise for that muscle with short rests or dropsets or whatever.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Thanks for the advise guys! I'll stick to compounds first heavy weight lower reps then follow with isolations.

Ill try push pull legs over the next 12 weeks then see where I am from there in terms of bulking cutting recomping or what

ta


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dieseldave said:


> It makes sense if for example your triceps are overpowering your chest on bench press, pre-exhaust tris before benching to encourage more pec involvement.





Ultrasonic said:


> I'm not convinced this is true.


 I've always thought the opposite to be true tbh. For example, if you're benching and your tris seem to give out first and you feel like you're not working your chest to its maximum capacity, then the idea is to do a chest isolation exercise first so that your pecs are then going to be the first muscle to fail on a bench pressing movement. Likewise, I tend to do leg curls before SLDLs because otherwise my lower back is the reason for failure to complete a rep, whereas with diminished strength on my hamstrings after doing leg curls, they're more likely to be the reason I hit failure and thus have been worked to their maximum capacity. I'd never dream of doing triceps before a bench pressing movement or it just turns into a tricep exercise with assistance from the shoulders and pecs :lol:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

DappaDonDave said:


> Don't get why people cry about chain gyms. Do their 20kg plates not weigh the same as big manly knuckle scraper gyms.


 Chain gyms are only bad when you go at busy times due to the lack of squat racks and stuff. If you go after 9pm or during the afternoon though then you're golden. I train at a Pure Gym and they're decently equipped as well as dirt cheap, plus 10 minute drive from home. As someone else said, they're often full of bellends, but it's nice being the biggest bloke there most of the time  Plus birds in gym leggings with their peachy arses everywhere is always nice.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Tricky said:


> Yes that was my one rep max I cannot do that now due to an injury. I can't dead or squat at the minute. I've no reason to lie to strangers online I don't even know. I'll post a video when Im recovered from surgery. Like a few who doubted my 50kg db press I'll post a video on Monday when I train chest again
> 
> ive cut my personal details out of my consultants referal letter to show you in waiting on an MRI. As I said I've nothing to gain by lying to strangers
> 
> View attachment 139945


 Too bad mate what did you do to your ankle. I wasn't actually calling you out I meant that's a good lift.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> I've always thought the opposite to be true tbh. For example, if you're benching and your tris seem to give out first and you feel like you're not working your chest to its maximum capacity, then the idea is to do a chest isolation exercise first so that your pecs are then going to be the first muscle to fail on a bench pressing movement. Likewise, I tend to do leg curls before SLDLs because otherwise my lower back is the reason for failure to complete a rep, whereas with diminished strength on my hamstrings after doing leg curls, they're more likely to be the reason I hit failure and thus have been worked to their maximum capacity. I'd never dream of doing triceps before a bench pressing movement or it just turns into a tricep exercise with assistance from the shoulders and pecs :lol:


 That's closer to what I was getting at.

Taking the bench press example, the way I look at it is this. If someone has strong triceps then when they bench press they should reach failure on the chest. If they want to then push their triceps to failure as well then they can do accessory tricep work afterwards. If on the other hand someone tends to reach failure due to tricep strength rather than chest, the some accessory work for chest makes sense (cable cross-overs say).

Pre-exhausting strong triceps before bench pressing to try to increase chest work could backfire I think. In that you could then reach a point where you fail due to tricep rather than chest strength, and so actually reduce chest work. On the other hand pre-exhausting a stronger chest to me makes less sense than doing accessory work afterwards. I say this as if it is done subsequent to the main lift you can happily push yourself to failure without worrying about keeping anything back for the primary lift, whereas I think there is this danger with pre-exhausting. My gut feeling is also that deliberately weakening a muscle before pushing yourself on a compound lift may increase injury risk. All of this is assuming pre-exhausting actually refers to lifting that is demanding in some way, rather than effectively just 'warming up', which is a different thing entirely.

Just my POV. I'm sure there are studies looking at muscle activation after pre-exhausting but I've never bothered to look for any and I'll be honest, I can't be bothered to now!


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> That's closer to what I was getting at.
> 
> Taking the bench press example, the way I look at it is this. If someone has strong triceps then when they bench press they should reach failure on the chest. If they want to then push their triceps to failure as well then they can do accessory tricep work afterwards. If on the other hand someone tends to reach failure due to tricep strength rather than chest, the some accessory work for chest makes sense (cable cross-overs say).
> 
> ...


 Yeah, I mean, using a bench pressing movement was just an example that illustrates my point the best I feel, in practicality though I would never bother pre-exhausting on chest exercises but the point being, as you said, weakening a muscle that "takes over" isn't at all practical IMO. With some exercises though, like with doing leg curls SLDLs as I said earlier, I feel as though you actually decrease the risk of injury because you're then forced to use a lighter weight. I'd actually say doing isolations before compounds is a good method of cutting down the weights used across the board for the sake of injury prevention, but then again I don't think it's the most efficient method of gaining strength and muscle in most cases.

I personally don't really pre-exhaust apart from SLDLs (and I rarely even do those anymore), because I think that if an exercise isn't working the target muscle on its own then pick a different exercise or work on your form. There are some circumstances, though, that I believe it's worth doing if it's done properly.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Sphinkter said:


> Too bad mate what did you do to your ankle. I wasn't actually calling you out I meant that's a good lift.


 That 240kg was over a year ago now when I was training, my max lifts wer bench 142.5kg, dead 240kg and squat 160kg. Squat always was my worst and I didn't really do overhead press barbell but could do 45kg seated shoulder press for sets and reps.

so many other things going on in my life I stopped training and got in terrible shape it was only in jan this year I joined the gym for a year and told myself I'm going to be consistent to try see some results for a change. I never had a problem getting strong but struggled to put size on but I think the issue in years before was not counting kcals and not knowing how many grams or what my body needed


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Tricky said:


> That 240kg was over a year ago now when I was training, my max lifts wer *bench 142.5kg, dead 240kg and squat 160kg.* Squat always was my worst and I didn't really do overhead press barbell but could do 45kg seated shoulder press for sets and reps.
> 
> so many other things going on in my life I stopped training and got in terrible shape it was only in jan this year I joined the gym for a year and told myself I'm going to be consistent to try see some results for a change. I never had a problem getting strong but struggled to put size on but I think the issue in years before was not counting kcals and not knowing how many grams or what my body needed


 With those numbers on lifts, i wouldn't be asking the question that you asked in your Original post TBH.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> That's closer to what I was getting at.
> 
> Taking the bench press example, the way I look at it is this. If someone has strong triceps then when they bench press they should reach failure on the chest. If they want to then push their triceps to failure as well then they can do accessory tricep work afterwards. If on the other hand someone tends to reach failure due to tricep strength rather than chest, the some accessory work for chest makes sense (cable cross-overs say).
> 
> ...


 It works in the real world and me myself have not read anything on this though. I believe once you have a lifting experience of a decade and you are not pushing for strength, it would work. IME, for hypertrophy, no exercise is better than the other. But, do keep in mind, while i say this, i look fu**ing tiny


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Tricky said:


> That 240kg was over a year ago now when I was training, my max lifts wer bench 142.5kg, dead 240kg and squat 160kg. Squat always was my worst and I didn't really do overhead press barbell but could do 45kg seated shoulder press for sets and reps.
> 
> so many other things going on in my life I stopped training and got in terrible shape it was only in jan this year I joined the gym for a year and told myself I'm going to be consistent to try see some results for a change. I never had a problem getting strong but struggled to put size on but I think the issue in years before was not counting kcals and not knowing how many grams or what my body needed


 You got pics of the condition you were in before?

you might not have been lean but you must have been a fair bit of size with lifts like that.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Tricky said:


> I never had a problem getting strong but struggled to put size on but I think the issue in years before was not counting kcals and not knowing how many grams or what my body needed


 My gut feeling is it was more a training than diet issue, since it's generally hard to make good strength gains when interesting. You also seem to underestimate the size you do have.

Muscle size gains are always less obvious when body fat levels are high of course.


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## Eddias (Dec 21, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm not convinced this is true.


 I tend to agree, i only do pre exhaust for muscle mind connection and warm up especially Lats where i struggle to get any type of connection.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Ultrasonic said:


> My gut feeling is it was more a training than diet issue, since it's generally hard to make good strength gains when interesting. You also seem to underestimate the size you do have.
> 
> Muscle size gains are always less obvious when body fat levels are high of course.


 Potentially the training issue. I used to get really bored of the bro split years ago when I trained and I much preferred strength training with my mates it always turned into a competition which was good for one rep max ect but not good for adding size.

Now in coming back after a lonng break I don't want to make the same mistakes and just lifting heavy low reps and sets to see how strong I can get I want to focus on adding size and not concerned with strength as my ankle injury means I can do deads, squats and over 80kg standing overhead press anyway. That's why I was asking the Question as hypetrophy is quite new to me


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Sphinkter said:


> You got pics of the condition you were in before?
> 
> you might not have been lean but you must have been a fair bit of size with lifts like that.


 I've no before pics with my shirt off as I was never lean and abs didn't interest me I just enjoyed training for strength back then with my mates. I'll try dig up a few videos of my lifts I know I've got the 140kg bench and 155kh squat on my phone and a 220kg deadlift on my instagram account I'll try record and post them up here. My mistake back then was I was just strength training and ego lifts and not actually making progress adding mass.

This time round I'm looking to focus on size during to my injury and was after advise for hypertrophy. Seems I've got it in that I need to do compounds first heavy say 5x5 or 4x6? Then follow isolations higher reps say 3x10. Would you agree or do you think 4x8 or is that too many sets?


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

Your story doesn't make much sense mate, lol.. Not to me anyway

I don't think many people hit a 140 bench and a 240 DL without taking training particularly seriously/making progress/adding much mass.

You've been training again since Jan (which you mention in almost every post) and you're already pressing 50's and shoulder pressing 42's I think I read somewhere? But you're asking if compounds should be done first or after isolations which is training 101 really..

I'm not calling you a liar as I don't really care tbh - just making an observation.


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Tricky said:


> Revisit my life priorities? If you could please elaborate what you mean as I stumped to how my life priorities need rearranged or addressed from asking a method of training. Not having a dig at all just generally interested how you thought that revelant and interested more so what areas need addressed


 Ah OK mate, maybe I was being too aggressive (something has happened to me over the past few months and I have developed an extremely short fuse and I find that I say or type stuff that I regret.)

So what I meant was that 99% of us here don't compete. The ones with partners, kids, careers etc do BB to enhance their lives, not make it their life.

It is thus entirely possible to think too much about something really simple (I've seen loads of posts from over-thinkers - even me who asked "Shall I do Dbol 2x or 4x ed?"). The simple thing is food, sleep, progressive resistance, and (optional) PEDs.

Any workout program works. PPL, whole body EoD, 5x5, 10x10 - everything works, but nothing works forever.

When this hobby becomes all-consuming, other areas of life (career, marriage, attending school plays, having a few beers with your mates, splurging on Nollidee, a Sunday morning kick around the park, etc) then either have to be juggled around the BB lifestyle or to be dropped entirely.

I am not a monk. I do not compete. I enjoy pushing and pulling and pushing. I enjoy anything where's it's me only vs something. I just find it satisfying.

However, I am not willing to change these aforementioned other things in life as I appreciate not everyone has a job or a mentally stable spouse or somewhere to live that is clean and comfortable. It took me many years to achieve this stability, and it needs continual fettling to continue.

But I am happy to work BBing around my aforementioned life priorities - which is to put food on the table for me and my dependents and make sure I have no bounced DDMs.

In other words, iron for me is anjoyable hobby, no more, no less.

(Er.. similarly, not having a dig chap.)


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Tricky said:


> Right ok I'll ignore the name calling. I have asked and spoke to them and got advise of sust, deca and dbol with a 5 day split and focusing on mostly machines. Seems to me they have their mass and now they are tweaking it. *I need to add the mass first I guess which is why I was wondering the most efficient way but it seems the real answer is anything just progressive overload* adding no weight or reps and nutrition for growth but most important consistency.
> 
> Ill report back in a few months with progress hopefully


 Bingo!

Forget what they do. Do what works for you.

This is why all these books and article we read when we were younger are shite.

Best how-to I've read (for training method) Is Stuart McRobert's Brawn series.

£2-£3 on amazon

I've only been doing this 5 years and started late in life. I wasted the first two years on following advanced level routines design for folk with mass and PEDs already.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

AncientOldBloke said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Forget what they do. Do what works for you.
> 
> ...


 I'll have look at it. I agree with your previous post about over thinking and looking at people who compete and comparing my routine to theirs

I just need to be consistent and results will come I get that hopefully in 6 months I'll see the fruits of my labour

you previous post about priorities doesn't apply to me. I know what you mean when you explained it, it just came across in your initial post you were having a dig and I couldn't see why. This is only a hobby for me that I'm slowly getting back into I have it all up to focus on getting a new job which I did then busting my balls going in to work early and coming home late and volunteering to work all the crap Christmas even Boxing Day New Years shifts ect to get me promoted so I wouldn't have more cash and more time to spend with my Young family. Training for me will always just be 3-4 hours out of my whole week with a conscious effort to eat decent not to starve myself from somthing I want or a meal with my family because it doesn't meet my macros. That's just not me


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Ares said:


> Your story doesn't make much sense mate, lol.. Not to me anyway
> 
> I don't think many people hit a 140 bench and a 240 DL without taking training particularly seriously/making progress/adding much mass.
> 
> ...


 I said strength comes pretty easy, when I was training previously my diet was mostly take away and beer and the odd protein shake which would account for why I never got lean or was in good shape but I couldn't still lift ok weights.

140kg bench for someone training a while even with a poor diet in my opinion isn't that much. Maybe for someone who was 70kg are somthing but I was 90kg at 6ft few years ago with a few years of inconsistent training under my belt. Again I don't think pressing 50 db to be much but some on here clearly do.

Ive never added mass which is why I'm asking. Maybe I've been going about it wrong and didn't want to continue to make the same mistakes. Before I only trained 5x5 or 4x6 for the most as I preferred strength style but now I'm going to focus on higher reps and sets and nutrition to see if I can finally add some size.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Tricky said:


> This time round I'm looking to focus on size during to my injury and was after advise for hypertrophy. Seems I've got it in that I need to do compounds first heavy say 5x5 or 4x6? Then follow isolations higher reps say 3x10. Would you agree or do you think 4x8 or is that too many sets?


 If you are purely interested in size I'd be inclined to try sticking to a minimum of 8 reps per set. Have a read of the following for some discussion of why if you haven't already, as the last time I said this it caused a bit of confusion!

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/297872-3x5-2x8-12/?do=findComment&comment=5642122


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

I bet OP was never strong. He just says his training and diet slacked because there was never anything there to begin with.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> I bet OP was never strong. He just says his training and diet slacked because there was never anything there to begin with.


 The photo he posted recently suggested otherwise.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> The photo he posted recently suggested otherwise.


 Link Please?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Link Please?


 I can't remember where it was and I'm not going to start hunting for it on my phone.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Link Please?


 If ya were big OP you wouldn't be asking simple questions like you were talking about. So much for the comments you made about people on here pal.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I can't remember where it was and I'm not going to start hunting for it on my phone.


 How can a photo posted above makes you think he can bench 140?  . Some serioud judgement issues there unless he is among X-Men breed.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> If ya were big OP you wouldn't be asking simple questions like you were talking about. So much for the comments you made about people on here pal.


 This may be carry over from something I've missed, but from what I've seen I really don't understand why you're giving the OP a hard time.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> How can a photo posted above makes you think he can bench 140?  . Some serioud judgement issues there unless he is among X-Men breed.


 My comment above was in relation to the OP not being really skinny. Size for a particular 1RM is never something I've really thought about. I'll admit 140kg does sound a lot for the photo but I wouldn't completely rule it out personally, in part as I haven't seen anything to particularly make me feel the OP has a reason to lie. He hasn't been bragging about anything in what I've seen and has been asking for advice.

As I said, I may have missed something else that has triggered these comments.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> This may be carry over from something I've missed, but from what I've seen I really don't understand why you're giving the OP a hard time.


 You act disrespectful, you will be disrespected in return.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> *My comment above was in relation to the OP not being really skinny*. Size for a particular 1RM is never something I've really thought about. I'll admit 140kg does sound a lot for the photo but I wouldn't completely rule it out personally, in part as I haven't seen anything to particularly make me feel the OP has a reason to lie. He hasn't been bragging about anything in what I've seen and has been asking for advice.
> 
> As I said, I may have missed something else that has triggered these comments.


 Read your previous comment after posting. Thought of deleting my post and then let it go. Fair point to you :thumbup1:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> You act disrespectful, you will be disrespected in return.


 I've clearly missed wherever this disrespect was.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> If ya were big OP you wouldn't be asking simple questions like you were talking about. So much for the comments you made about people on here pal.
> 
> View attachment 140013


 To be fair he did say this was his current condition and that he took some time off training.

140kg bench for a single was from last year or something after a few years consistent training.

To be fair if he's already inclining the 50s easily for 8 reps after a couple of months then I don't find it that hard to believe he benched 140kg for 1 after a few years training consistently.

you know what it's like if you stop training when your natty you decomp like f**k.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> I've clearly missed wherever this disrespect was.


 Well imo I find the comment I quoted on the first page to be disrespectful and hypocritical. Not to mention the way he speaks to people on here that he's never come across before.


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## Frost_uk (Sep 1, 2014)

DappaDonDave said:


> Earphones in, world out.


 To some extent.... until you have to wait for a piece of equipment that someone is using/half using/pretend using and have to wait or try find something else in the meatime that is not being used.

Most don't allow chalk, even liquid chalk.

A lot do not understand self awareness and common sense not to walk in someone's exercise space, many times training at such a place people bump while on a bench equipment.

Decent gym with decent people = more motivation and atmosphere even if you can't hear them due to your music. Product of your environment


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## Darren 1972 (Jun 27, 2015)

you never gonna get big doing cables and you never gonna get big without getting strong just dou compound exercises 9 sets 8 reps per muscle 3 times a week 8 hours sleep and s**t loads of kcals


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Darren 1972 said:


> you never gonna get big doing cables


 Time under tension baby!


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Darren 1972 said:


> you never gonna get big doing cables and you never gonna get big without getting strong just dou compound exercises 9 sets 8 reps per muscle 3 times a week 8 hours sleep and s**t loads of kcals


 8 hours sleep! Forget that unless you mean for 2 days? I function fine on 5


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

@Heavyassweights

@Natty Steve'o

@Sphinkter

@Ares

@Ultrasonic

@Jatin Bhatia

@NoGutsNoGloryy

i know those i quoted only a few of yous said I was making numbers up but I've no reason to lie. I was training shoulders and the gym seemed quite empty so I propped my phone up and decided to just do a quick set with the 50's for video I know the angle Is poor ect but you can see at the start of the video they are 5x5kg plates each side.

I had to edit the video to get it to upload so cut reps out. It's crap quality but I always train alone and don't want to ask someone to video me but it was more so to show I can throw up the 50's pretty easy after 3months back in the game


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

View attachment IMG_0885.MOV


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

@Heavyassweights this ones for you bro

View attachment IMG_0884.MOV


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Tricky said:


> @Heavyassweights this ones for you bro
> 
> View attachment 140237


 Looks like chest day.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Tricky said:


> I was training shoulders


 LOL

Nice benching Tricky.....


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Looks like chest day.


 Trained chest Monday but gym was far too packed to try video and I knew time was ticking on and the non believers were lapping it up no video had emerged so I was training shoulders my seated db shoulder press 3x8 at 40kg and I said I'l just throw this bench down a few clicks grab the 50's and get it over and done with

thanks bro!!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Tricky said:


> Trained chest Monday but gym was far too packed to try video and I knew time was ticking on and the non believers were lapping it up no video had emerged so I was training shoulders my seated db shoulder press 3x8 at 40kg and I said I'l just throw this bench down a few clicks grab the 50's and get it over and done with
> 
> thanks bro!!


 Computer is playing up since I downloaded the vid!

Hope you ain't got a virus hidden in there ?


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Computer is playing up since I downloaded the vid!
> 
> Hope you ain't got a virus hidden in there ?


 Trust me I'm no computer wizard I wouldn't be at that I took the video on my iPhone 5s, used my iPhone to edit it then uploaded it from my iPhone by clicking the paper clip saying click to choose files ?

Im not a c**t


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

haha class, you sound funny as fcuk like you were almost singing.

are they kg or lbs? look a bit suspect to me, almost 2.5kg plates.


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Tricky said:


> Trained chest Monday but gym was far too packed to try video and I knew time was ticking on and the non believers were lapping it up no video had emerged so I was training shoulders my seated db shoulder press 3x8 at 40kg and I said I'l just throw this bench down a few clicks grab the 50's and get it over and done with
> 
> thanks bro!!


 in for the 40s on shoulder press


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Tricky said:


> @Heavyassweights
> 
> @Natty Steve'o
> 
> ...


 Good on ya. Only thing is I don't care.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Heavyassweights said:


> haha class, you sound funny as fcuk like you were almost singing.
> 
> are they kg or lbs? look a bit suspect to me, almost 2.5kg plates.


 You make me laugh so thought I would give you a shout out bro!

They are kg, come on your clutching at straws.

Next shoulder session I'll get you the 40's if you need more videos.

Shoulder press 50 and chest press 60 by Christmas and I would be happy. If I ever get there those weights are worthy of a video and I'll give you a shout out.

Keep it real

tricky


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## Darren 1972 (Jun 27, 2015)

Tricky said:


> 8 hours sleep! Forget that unless you mean for 2 days? I function fine on 5


 functioning and getting big are not the same though are they if you want to grow you need lots of sleep and rest


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Tricky said:


> View attachment 140236


 Not downloading it mate. No need to prove anything to us though


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