# Big first post



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi guys,

New to the forum on Andrews recommendation, I contacted him about a bit of advice and he recommended that I come visit here! Sorry this is going to be long winded, but i'm hoping I have all the info here that people will need if willing to help me out.

I'm a member over on bb.com but I found to get specific help with diet etc was a bit of a problem, most members want to tell you, you are an idiot first and then not help, so I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Unfortunately i'm stuck without the help of any natural bb'ers here, everyone is on gear, or just a casual gym goer, so again i'm usually stuck for natty advice, or something just on a more personal scale.

To give a bit of background, im 28, 5"7 and currently 12st 5, approximately 17.5% bf. I've been training for around 5 years now, wasted around 3 of those without proper advice.

I've been in a bodybuilding gym now for the past 4 years and educated myself as much as possible with forums, mags, websites, other bodybuilders etc, so don't exactly consider myself a noob, although by no means know anywhere close to knowing it all.

I started out around 9st 6, so have put quite a bit of size on since I started, more recently I've just over a stone on from January, with a very rough and ready diet recommended to me in the gym.

Of course as expected, theres been a bit of bodyfat on too, which I can accept is a given, but I've got to the stage now where I'd like to bring it back down, even to the low teens and go for a leaner bulk.

Current training is a 4 day split and I must say this is an outline as I try to change up the equipment/rep range etc a bit, apart from my compounds.

Day 1 Shoulders/Calves

Dumbell press 3 x 8-12

Front raises usually 3 x 12-15 or drop sets

Side raises as above

Rear flys as above

Seated calf raises

Toe press supersetted with bodyweight press and then from a flat surface

Day 2 Legs/Traps

Squats 3 x 8-12, sometimes 4 x 15-20

Leg press as above (or currently doing pyramid sets as per kris gethins dtp)

Extensions as squat rep range

Ham Curls as above

Upright rows 3 x 8-12

Shrugs 3 x 8-12

Behind the back barbell shrugs 3 x 8-12

Day 3 Back/Tris

Pulldowns (change the grip up after 2-3 weeks) 3 x 8-12

T-bar or low cable rows 3 x 8-12

Pull down/row hybrid hammer machine (starts with a close grip pull down, opening into a row at the bottom) 3 x 8-12

Deads 3 x 6-8

Close grip bench 3 x 8-12, or some weeks 3 drop sets to change it up

Mega set on the cables, going from push down to using the ropes, back to reverse grip then to over head extensions 3 sets

Dips 3 x 8-12

Skullcrushers 3 x 8-12

Day 4 Chest/Bis

Barbell/ez bar curls 3 x 8-12

Hammer curl drop set x 3

seated barbell curl 3 x 8 -12

Some form of peak exercise 3 x 8-12

Incline press (barbell or dumbells) 3 x 8-12

Flat press, some times super setted with push ups. 3 x 8-12

Incline flys 3x 8-12

Cable flys 3 x 8-12

I throw abs in twice a week, split to upper/lower.

Now the diet part, which admittidly is not my strong point

7.30 Serving of whey with instant oats

9am serving of whey, serving of oat so simple (plain) with semi skimmed milk and a handful of strawberries

10.30am 175g chicken, 1/2 cup brown rice

12.30 as above

3 pm as above

pre workout 2.5g creatine mono

post workout serving of whey isolate, vitargo and 2.5 creatine

6.30/7 can consist of many a thing, usually rice/potato/pasta and meat/poultry/fish and veg, not weighed, just guaged by eye on portion size.

At the weekend my diet fails a bit on a sunday, with a roast on the go and possibly a take away the night before. But i'm hoping that if I'm not going to be on stage, then its ok? Maybe? Kinda? ray:

So thats it in a nutshell, as I said, pointers would be much appreciated, especially on the diet side, I don't know where to start with macros etc or how I need to adjust to start bringing the bf back down a bit! I'm told at my current weight my maintenance is about 2700cal/day?

Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

cut your training days back mate.

you`ll find it easier to grow.

imo 4x a week is an advanced routine.

get a handle on growing with less training days and you may find you can then get 4x awork.

imo the more training days you do, the more likely you`ll overtrain and slow results down.

frequent training is more suited for gear use for MOST people.

you grow when you rest and thats hard to do, when you train more days a week than when you rest.

thats based on my own experiences coming up from 9.5 stone.

if youve got a perfect diet and results arent happening still the answer is in training/rest.


----------



## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Do you go to bed early?

Only I notice your last meal is at 6:30-7pm. Which means your're going 12&half hours from last meal to 1st.

If poss, I'd try alter you food timings to

7:30am

10am

12:30am

3pm

Pre-intra-post W/O

6:30/ 7pm

9 / 9:30pm - This could be a simple protein shake so as to not put in any carbs just before sleeping.


----------



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm growing ok lol, just a little too quick, ie bf climbing! I had to cut back on the carbs as the weight and bf were flying up! I did previously train on a 3 day split, but increased it a day so I could give my legs and shoulders a bit more attention!


----------



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

Neil R said:


> Do you go to bed early?
> 
> Only I notice your last meal is at 6:30-7pm. Which means your're going 12&half hours from last meal to 1st.
> 
> ...


Im usually sleeping for 10.30/11. It's one thing I know I need to do, is get something else in there!


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

youre not growing dude youre getting porkier going by your post.

another way of looking at adding a day is that your diluting your efforts, unless youre going into maintaince mode for everything other than legs n shoulders that is :wink:

you have to train differently naturally than to using gear.


----------



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

TheCrazyCal said:


> youre not growing dude youre getting porkier going by your post.


Well to an extent yes, I've put on about 1.5% additional bf in the 16/17 lb i've put on since January, so around 5lb is fat, but theres still some mass there!



TheCrazyCal said:


> another way of looking at adding a day is that your diluting your efforts, unless youre going into maintaince mode for everything other than legs n shoulders that is :wink:
> 
> you have to train differently naturally than to using gear.


I'm not arguing with you here, I hope it doesn't come across that way, i'm glad of your help, I just assumed that bringing an extra day in means that I can put more effort in, given that I'm not squeezing as much into a single session?


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

> I'm not arguing with you here, I hope it doesn't come across that way, i'm glad of your help, I just assumed that bringing an extra day in means that I can put more effort in, given that I'm not squeezing as much into a single session?


im sure many on here will agree that adding in an extra day means you`ll put more effort in.

i think it means you can put less in (unless you train using superabbreviated routines which youre not)


----------



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

I get what you mean, increase work load, regardless of spreading it more thinly!


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Welcome to the forum, It's a shame you've had a negative experience on BB.com, I'm sure you'll find the guys here more welcoming with no egos and if you like it then bring some friends across. Following a routine for a long period of time can leave things a bit stale moving to a new routine might be a good idea to help get you motivated again and for some of the reasons as Cal suggested.

If you do decide to change it up I suggest that you get yourself a Diary and start recording your progress, If your not adding an extra rep or an extra couple of lb each week to your big exercises then your slacking. Take a look at your diary after the first week and really ask yourself should you be stronger after training for so long, and if your not you better get your backside in the Gym again on Monday with a mission to lift heavier.

Rep ranges should be black and white like your plan 8 -12, train in cycles 6 weeks doing 1-5 reps, another 6 doing 8 reps and 6 weeks doing the higher 10 -12 reps. Again if your not getting stronger or more reps then seriously ask yourself why not and make an effort to get more out of your next training session. The plan you eventually decide to follow will be up to you but I'm sure the guys on here will be more than happy to help you out with some tweaks and pointers if you post your plan.

As for the diet I've written quite a few articles on this section that detail my own principles designed for the natural bodybuilder so I'm not going to go over covered ground. You've already mentioned though that you need 2700kcal to maintain, I'd be willing to be your not sure how many calories are in your current diet or your nutrient breakdown. Work this out and if your not eating enough increase your calories, if your goal is to lose weight then add a couple of cardio sessions alongside your weight training regimes.

You can get so far with training and dieting, and you sound like you've made good progress so far so I wouldn't lose heart, but taking your physique to the next level often takes commitment that the average person isn't willing to put in and makes the difference between your average gym rat with a good physique and someone else with a head turning awesome physique.

So if your missing meals , not eating enough, not training hard enough coasting through long energy sapping workouts then you know where you can make improvements. Check out my Muscle up program if your looking for some inspiration, Crazy Cal also has a program that's worth a look in.


----------



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

Cheers guys!

Bb. Com is usually 100% and I've found it really useful over the years, but those in the know in terms of diet don't share well! But apart from that it's grand!

Yeah I do still push for those extra reps or a little more weight and when things do stall, then I bring the drop sets/super sets in etc just for a bit of a shock!

I'm terms of the diet Andrew, can you point me in the direction of where to start working out calorie requirments/macro break downs etc please?

Thanks again all


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi Stu and welcome to the board.

Take a look at Andy's 'Muscle Up' thread along with Parky & PScarb's sticky's in the diet section. Start putting something together then post it up for us to look at (in a new thread). You might find MyFitnessPal handy, it's the perfect tool for quickly working out your daily intake.


----------



## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Andy - do you incorporate those three cyclical phases yourself?

I really like the idea, principally from the point of view of keeping me interested, though mixing classic strength and more hypertrophic phases I think could be quite fruitful. I'll always done both at once (pyramiding) but I'm willing to give any training system a shot given my views on how little it matters (outside of basing the majority of your workout around progression on compound exercises.)


----------



## Stuarty1984 (Aug 28, 2012)

Hello mate!

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes i'll add to the diet details I posted earlier to see where I can go from there. Like I say, i'm never going to stand on stage, but to get at least to the low teen bf% would be nice, just to see a bit more of the mass i've added and the odd line here and there!


----------



## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Never say never matey, it's amazing how your focus changes once you get the bit between your teeth!


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Parky said:


> Andy - do you incorporate those three cyclical phases yourself?
> 
> I really like the idea, principally from the point of view of keeping me interested, though mixing classic strength and more hypertrophic phases I think could be quite fruitful. I'll always done both at once (pyramiding) but I'm willing to give any training system a shot given my views on how little it matters (outside of basing the majority of your workout around progression on compound exercises.)


It's a great way to train Parky, one of the main benefits is that it ensure progression on a weekly basis. I've never really believed in pyramiding, I don't think it makes any sense. I've always gone with a Mike Mentzer approach, balls to the wall every set if you can lift it for 10 reps then whats the point in wasting a couple of sets just to warm up to a weight, the same goes for strength training. After all anything in the 10 range is only around 80-85% of your 1RM, your not going to get injured provided your warmed up and your technique is good. For strength training your first working set should be the same weight as your last, it's all about consistency. Again you can't waste time and energy doing sets of 10. It makes sense when you think about it logically, you'll get better results doing a pure hypertrophy phase or strength phase rather than a mix between the two. Stronger muscle translate into heavier weights into a hypertrophy phase ensuring progression.

Injury is also a major issue, it forces you to train in phases with transitions to lighter weights and even weeks off. It takes discipline to train in such a way but I', sure you've got it, base your workouts around the compounds a good cycle would be. Endurance 20 - 12 reps, Hypertrophy 8 -12, Strength 3-6, Power 3 reps, Hypertrophy 8- 12, Endurance 20 - 12 reps. 6 week blocks take a new 1RM once every 6 weeks so your always lifting around 60% for endurance, 80- 85% hypertrophy, Strength 90-95% and Power 100% - 100%+


----------

