# Slimming Supplemtents - what ones?



## gadgesxi (Jul 21, 2005)

In a couple of weeks i'll be slimming down as my gut has grew as quick as my arms!

Apart from a low carb diet are there any useful slimming supplements worth taking?

ta


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the good old E/C/A stack is great if you can get hold of Ephedrine if not try Xenadrine NRG i have just read a decent study in MD about its effects.


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## gadgesxi (Jul 21, 2005)

any pointers where to get the stack from?


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

ive heard that clenbuterol is a gud supplement when trying to slim down a bit like, im currently on a low carb high protien diet, thinking about getting some clenbuterol, i was told that it raises your bodies temperature which obviously makes you swet more, have i been told wrong ?


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## Lauren (Jan 20, 2005)

Deano! said:


> ive heard that clenbuterol is a gud supplement when trying to slim down a bit like, im currently on a low carb high protien diet, thinking about getting some clenbuterol, i was told that it raises your bodies temperature which obviously makes you swet more, have i been told wrong ?


Clenbuterol is a steroid mate not a supplement.

I think before you start taking that try an ECA stack, these are really good.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

ECY Stack is even better im told! and could cycle that with Clen

quick info i found on it:

What is an ECY stack?

ECY stands for ephedrine HCL, yohimbine HCL and caffeine

Where can I find the ingredients for the ECY stack

* Ephedrine HCL can be found at the BB.com Cyberstore as well as DNE

* Caffeine can be found at the BB.com Cyberstore

* Yohimbine HCL, though not sold as a seperate ingredient, can be found as yohimbe at the BB.com Cyberstore. You can also find it seperately at other Internet locations. An internet "search" will accomplish this

What are the dosings/servings of the ECY stack?

If you are new to this, you will need to start at a basic level. Ideally, each serving will be:

* Ephedrine HCL: 25mg

* Caffeine: 200mg

* Yohimbine HCL: 5mg

The best (i.e. ideal) time to take it will be 30 minutes prior to a meal (preferably low carb) and/or 30 minutes prior to exercise. It should also be noted that yohimbine really isn't necessary to make this stack AMAZING. Ephedrine HCL and caffeine will do well. Many people will alternate ephedrine HCL and caffeine with yohimbine HCL with caffeine, as there is published material stating that the combination of ephedrine and yohimbine isn't wise. You can read up on it here

You should wait a few days before your increase your servings (assessing tolerance to the ingredients). In most cases, people will take 2-3 servings a day, with a few taking 4 servings a day and some whackos taking more then that . Each serving should be taken roughly 4 hours or more apart, and again, 30 minutes prior to a meal (preferably low carb) and/or exercise.

What pre-cautions should I take with the ECY stack?

Some basic pre-cautions include:

* Not surpassing 100mg ephedrine HCL in a 24 hour period

* Not surpassing 0.2mg/kg of bodyweight of yohimbine HCL (20mg for a 220lb person)

* Always watch for side-effects, including: increased blood pressure, heart palpitations, increased body temperature, et cetera.

* As caffeine is a diuretic, please drink plenty of fluids (i.e. water) daily.

What other links are there regarding the ECY stack?

* Sawastea's Review of Various Products

* Old thread regarding thermos

* ECA Misconceptions & Debunking by shpongled

* Homemade ECA by Manteca

The aforementioned links can be found at the Best Of Supplements Sticky

* EYC and where to get

This is a very basic thread regarding ECY. There are topics I have not touched, including other supplements to take with the ECY. Honestly, if you are a noobie taking this, stick to the basics.

Finally, please realize that these are supplements, they will NOT replace a proper diet and exercise program. They are used to 'supplement' it. Please use with caution and know ALL the side-effects of each ingredient.

This is intended for those 18 years and older


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

thanks for the help people


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

The reason why ECY is more effective is that Yohimbe is an Alpha stimulator whereas Effy, Caffeine and Clen are Beta stimulators.

I believe I read in Anabolics 2005 that Alpha receptors can facilitate visceral (deep embedded) fat to be used for energy so you target fat loss from 2 different angles.

One of the best Yohimbe supplements at the moment is Stacker 3. Super powerful all you need to do is add an effy tab and you have a wicked stack. This is what I used up the the recent British Finals when I had exhausted all other avenues!


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

is there different types of yohimbe then? and the one you advise is stacker 3, or is that the type of stack, and an effy tab...

the only problem i have with this kind of thing i cant buy things off the pc as i dont have a credit card, i have a debit card though? and my soursces for gear ave limited at the moment


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

No mate

Stacker 3 is a brand name, it has Yohimbe, Caffeine and White Willow Bark in so thats the Y C and A sorted.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

oh right thanks tinytom mate


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## sawastea (Mar 12, 2006)

the_gre8t_1ne said:


> ECY Stack is even better im told! and could cycle that with Clen
> 
> quick info i found on it:
> 
> ...


Ahh, I knew this thread looks familiar :beer1:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=316758

Anyway, there has been much controversy regarding the combination of ephedrine HCL and yohimbine HCL.

The addition of the 2-adrenolytic drug, yohimbine, to caffeine and ephedrine is an attractive support to obesity treatment. However, administration of three drugs influencing the cardiovascular system could have some undesirable effects, especially in obese subjects.

We tried to determine if the supporting pharmacological treatment of obese women composed of ephedrine, caffeine and yohimbine could modify the cardiovascular state at rest and during static (handgrip) or dynamic (cycloergometer) exercise. We found that loss of body mass did not differ between groups receiving only diet and groups with two or three drugs administration together with diet. We supposed that 10 days is too short a time to define real weight loss after treatment. Further study is needed to define the influence of these doses of drugs on metabolic effects and weight loss during a longer period of treatment.

However, the aim of our study was to determine if caffeine and ephedrine used together or these two drugs in combination with yohimbine were safe for the cardiovascular system. Ten days of observation is a sufficient period to detect some cardiovascular reactions. A very low caloric diet is usually associated with a decrease in adrenergic system activity. The aim of ephedrine, caffeine and yohimbine administration was to diminish this phenomenon and to increase the effect of a low caloric diet. We did not observe significant changes in most haemodynamic parameters after 10 days of diet only administration. However, the ejection fraction decreased. It is possible that this drop is one of the symptoms indicating this phenomenon.

We found that the therapy composed of ephedrine (2 25 mg) and caffeine (2 200 mg) did not modify the haemodynamic parameters at rest and during the handgrip exercise. Only during cycloergometer exercise was ejection fraction increased. This fact suggests that the combination of the drugs we used did not exert undesirable effects on the cardiovascular system. The increased in ejection fraction even has a profitable significance. It is also an indirect proof that ephedrine and caffeine in the doses we used could weakly activate the adrenergic system. For this reason the charge in the cardiovascular system in our obese subjects during static or dynamic exercise at the time of ephedrine and caffeine administration was not very large and seemed safe.We observed different reactions of the cardiovascular system when three drugs were used. Application of three drugs produced a depression of the cardiovascular system at rest, which was expressed by a decrease in stroke index and ejection fraction. This was probably the result of diastolic pressure and heart rate increase. In these circumstances, the systole of the heart is less efficient. We could speculate that these effects of yohimbine were due to an increase in noradrenaline concentration in the plasma ( Hedner et al., 1992; Tavernier et al., 1992). If this was the case, noradrenaline could increase the afterload, and thereby cardiac performance would be decreased. This could be an undesirable effect of yohimbine treatment. The same drug regimen during the handgrip test led to a decrease in ejection fraction only. Diastolic pressure, heart rate and ejection fraction tended in a similar direction during the handgrip test, but did not show significant changes between groups. We suppose that activation of the adrenergic system and following cardiovascular system during exercise is much stronger than after pharmacological stimulation. For this reason, the pharmacological influence of drugs is proportionally attenuated.

When cycloergometer exercise was performed, not only ejection fraction, but also cardiac load increased in the group receiving three drugs. The last effect was not observed during the handgrip test. However, cycloergometer exercise and handgrip are quite different types of effort. During dynamic exercise, heart rate reached higher values than during the handgrip test. Systolic pressure was inversely higher during the handgrip test. It could be speculated that, during the handgrip test, -activation predominated but during the cycloergometer exercise -activation predominated. End-diastolic index observed during dynamic exercise reached greater values than during the handgrip test. Central translocation of blood volume from the lower part of the body during exercise on the cycloergometer could have cardinal meaning. This centralization of circulation was probably in part due to the work of the leg muscles. Stroke index during cycloergometer exercise was also greater than during the handgrip test. Increased volume of heart and circulating blood, augmented heart rate together with the influence of the three drugs evoked an increase in cardiac load. The influence of yohimbine in these circumstances is very important, because we did not observe an increase in cardiac load when only two drugs were administered. This fact has significant clinical implications, because it suggests that yohimbine evokes some dangerous changes in the cardiovascular system. For this reason, this drug could only be used in some persons with caution.

Our results indicate that the pharmacological support of a low caloric diet by ephedrine and caffeine during obesity treatment induces only minimal changes in the cardiovascular system, but the addition of yohimbine to this regimen may lessen the cardiac performance at rest and during the handgrip test. Using three drugs during the cycloergometer exercise leads to an increase in cardiac work. Therefore, these findings demonstrate that chronic administration of ephedrine and caffeine has no undesirable effects on cardiovascular state in obese patients. The addition of yohimbine should be treated with caution and must be excluded in particular obese individuals with cardiovascular complications.

Waluga M, Janusz M, Karpel E, Hartleb M, Nowak A. Cardiovascular effects of ephedrine, caffeine and yohimbine measured by thoracic electrical bioimpedance in obese women. Clin Physiol. 1998 Jan;18(1):69-76

Int J Mol Med. 2001 Jul;8(1):103-9. Related Articles, Links

Divergent effects of an alpha2-adrenergic antagonist on lipolysis and thermogenesis: interactions with a beta3-adrenergic agonist in rats.

Gomez-Ambrosi J, Fruhbeck G, Aguado M, Milagro FI, Margareto J, Martinez AJ.

Department of Physiology and Nutrition, University of Navarra, 31008 Pamplona, Spain.

This study was undertaken in order to test the hypothesis that selective beta3-AR stimulation and simultaneous blockade of alpha2-AR would result in an increase of lipolysis and thermogenesis in rats. Incubation of isolated white adipocytes with the alpha2-AR antagonist yohimbine produced a concentration-dependent increase in glycerol release (P<0.001) for all assayed concentrations (10-12-10-6 M) and potentiated the lipolytic effect of the beta3-AR agonist Trecadrine. However, in vivo administration of yohimbine produced a marked decrease in body temperature (1.3-1.5 degrees C, P<0.001) and blocked the thermogenic effect of Trecadrine when simultaneously administered. A similar response was observed for whole body oxygen consumption. Furthermore, yohimbine did not modify brown adipose tissue oxygen consumption, but blocked the beta3-AR-mediated increase triggered by Trecadrine. Brown adipose tissue UCP-2 and -3 mRNA expression was not changed by yohimbine. *In conclusion, the present work indicates that in vitro alpha2-AR blockade by yohimbine potentiates the beta3-AR-mediated stimulation of lipolysis. On the other hand, in vivo alpha2-AR antagonism blocks the thermogenic effects mediated by beta3-AR stimulation, suggesting a possible interplay between the receptors.*


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