# short bulks or bulldozer bulking, have you tried it?



## zero2hero2013

ok, so for a few months now i have been wondering about short bulks and unable to find much out about it.

then i found an article by steve shaw about bulldozer bulks or short bulks.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/bulking-for-natural-bodybuilders.html

one question is has anyone tried it and what results did you get?

the experiment,

i am now going to try it untill atleast february when i go on holiday.

Currently i am at 14% body fat approx. kinda a awkward spot because i dont really have much muscle and i am not lean enough to have a descent six pack, in fact i have barely got a 4 pack unless i tense it. so building and the leaning normally will either make me too skinny due to lack of muscle or too fat for my holiday in feb.

so 3 weeks ago i started to bulk. eating around 3500 calories (sedentary job role) and i have been hitting the gym hard. i have managed to gain about 3.6kg or 8lbs of weight in the 3 weeks. everyone i know has said i look huge compared to before. i know some of it is water weight but i think 3 lbs max. so hopefully a 5lb actual weight gain. fingers crossed 3 of the 5 lbs is muscle gained and by looking in the mirror it would appear so. i am not nieve enough to assume no fat at all gained but the mirror doesnt show it.

for the next 2 weeks i am going on a 750 cal a day defict in hopes to lose 3lbs of fat.

if all goes well i should end up in 2 weeks around 5lbs lighter 3 from fat and another 2 from water/food in system. if this goes to plan i would have gained around 2-3lbs from my start weight.

what do people think does it work, will it work, or am i wasting my time?

either way i will record in this forum on a weekly basis how it is going.

basic about my self are as follow. feb-sept fat loss. 55lbs total loss. starting bf approx 32% finishing bf 13.5%.

i am 6 ft 2, currently weigh 190lbs and my last bf test on sept 2nd placed my bf at 13.5 making lean mass 161lb at the time.

i have been weight training at deficit since feb. doing 4-5 sessions a week for the past 3 months.

i will post up pictures every two weeks after bulks and cuts or as close too as i can manage.

wish me luck people this will either work or it wont but time to find out!


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## zero2hero2013

has nobody actually tried it then?


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## Malibu

I havnt but it would be interesting to read more info


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## Wardy211436114751

Dirty bulking in essense then?

I pretty much bulked dirty on about 3.5k kcals for 2-3 months and put on about 10lbs and little fat. I think eating clean and about 3-500 above your maintenence would be your best option especially as you were overweight before. Just make sure you monitor it every week and adjust accordingly.


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## zero2hero2013

i dont plan to do it dirty, (although i am not sure what dirty means exactly) the 3500 calories is going to be 90% healthy no pizzas, crisps, hamburgers, soda or beer etc.

i am hoping since i am a newbie i can benifit from newbie gains be maximised by something as radical as this. i hope to actually lose body fat on a monthly basis and gain muscle mass.

even if its a 1lbs gain and 1lbs lost ratio. although i am going to train hard and maximise any thing i can possible, with adequate rest of course.

i dont mind being a guineau pig as such and i plan to record weekly my progress in this forum. got a bf test to be done tomorrow by a experienced gym trainer. and plan to do it at the end of each bulk as such.

i honestly have no idea how much i can gain or lose but when i was dieting i was dropping 1-2lbs a week steadily but i am kinda hoping more with this as i wont have 6 months of strain on my metabolism. it will be overdrived from the bulk so hoping it will aid the losses. already started my diet today so in 2 weeks i hope to get down to 83kg which would be a 3kg drop approx. although i am sure some of it is water.

he does say in one of his articles that it isnt right for an elite body builder to do this, but i reckon as a 6 month newbie never done any real mass gaining i will take it in my stride. the only thing i know i have on my side is my dieting skills and my determination in the gym. hopefully it will be a good 6 months

tru aims i guess would be 11-12% body fat so 2-3% less then now and to gain 6-8lbs of muscle.


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## zero2hero2013

36 hours into diet phase 1, calories 1950, breakdown: 140/225/52 cpf, dropped 2lbs of so there goes the water weight. current weight 187.3lbs,

pretty happy about the day, forgot how hard it is to eat so little after the bulk. happy about the cpf breakdown for the day. off of the gym for another 2 days. hurt my shoulder a little but its feelng better tbh but i figured i havent had a 4-5 day break from the gym in around 3 months so making the most of it. got a bf test today at 3.30pm so il post up the results after. little scared but im sure it couldnt be that bad...


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## zero2hero2013

i have decided to change my macros. 140g carbs 225g protein , 52g fat seems a little off. didnt realise into i was looking at it properly.

i think im going to try to get around 200g of carbs and 160g of protein, 52g of fat approx, this will be 1g or of protein per lbm in lbs. anyone agree disagree?


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## GreedyBen

I got fed up of dieting so had a mini bulk for two weeks on 3500cal a day, loads of carbs but mainly low g.i, ended up around 100g fat aswell though due to all the eggs and milk. Then had 4 days away for the weekend, did a few burgers (although proper ones not fast food ****e), a few steaks, some chips, end result 2kg gain, loss of a big of definition and a roll around my gut. Hopefully I'll look better when I get it back off or I'm going to do my nut!


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## zero2hero2013

im sure you will be fine mate, bit of cardio and it will dissapear over a few weeks max, some of it will be water, not knowing your stats but i seem to gain and lose about 1kg of water currently, and it makes a huge difference to defintion. as soon as it goes your fat seems to decrease instantly. shame its not permanant though :-(.

i will be allowing for this 1kg or 2lbs water weight every time i jump from cut to bulk. still got to try and drop of as much of this actual fat in the next 12 days as possible.

keep me posted mate. i found it took 2 days to drop it off properly. also make sure your sodium intake is minimal for the first day and drink lots of water, makes a huge difference to how long it takes i have found.


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## GreedyBen

Stick a journal up in the journal section with your progress pics, diet, and workouts mate, loads of people will read it and a few will chime in giving advice etc.


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## Wardy211436114751

I think your first diet looked better..


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## zero2hero2013

im a little confused, there is soo much controversy over how much protein is needed and carbs do taste better lol. a piece of toast or 50g of chicken hmm toast for me lol. i want to keep my protein high but does it need to be so high even when dieting as all the calories will be transferred from carbs :-(

also i dont want to be in ketosis or have to little energy to go gym etc. maybe split it more even 180 180? that would be almost 40/40/20 give or take a little on the fat side 

once i get this sorted properly my diets will look like this approx

bulk 350g of carbs, 250g of protein, 120g of fat approx 3200-3500 calories

cut to be decided but somewhere like 180g p 180g c 45g f approx 1800-2000 calories

i guess maybe i could try both, one each cut and see which works best for me. il stay with the higher carbs for this run, so 140-160g carbs 200-220g p 40-50g fat.


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## Wardy211436114751

So you are trying to cut? I don't think you should personally especially being 6'2 you can carry the extra weight better and you need more size to fill out your frame.


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## zero2hero2013

i bulk for the first 2 weeks of every month then cut for the last 2, its all above  im guessing you didnt read the op,

there is a link up there to the plan that i am trying to follow take a peek and let me know what you think,

its going to look weird but i want to try it atleast....

worse case scenario i dont lose or gain anything, maybe get a little fitter in the gym though


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## Wardy211436114751

Sorry was on phone couldn't read the link. Just read through it all now and its a very interesting concept I think and makes a lot of sense if the 2 week period is accurate.

Let me know how you get on stick at it for a few months I reckon.


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## zero2hero2013

will do, im worried about swapping back and forth on the dieting but my willpower is high at the moment so im doing good so far atleast 

on course for 1800 calories today. cant wait for 12 days time, scoff my face time lol HEALTHILY of course :-(

starting to get worried about my bf test in 2 hrs time. previously 13.5% weighing 84.6kg (always at 3pm) and i knwo today i am going to weigh in at atleast 85.5kg maybe more, 2-3 kg in 3 weeks how much of it could of been muscle gained....

although the maths would suggest that 1.5kg max could of been fat, as i over ate by 500 calories only each day well most days


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## zero2hero2013

had the best results ever! wow. so previously i was 13.9% 84.6kg total weight, lean weight of 72.8kg and fat weight of 11.8kg, today after 3 weeks of 3500kcals and eating clean i am.....

13.1% body fat! 86kg total weight, lean weight of 74.7kg and a fat weight 11.3kg]i am absolutely stoked! almost 4lbs gained and 2lbs lost all within 3 weeks, confused but happy! i made him do a average of 3 reading per site as well so i know its got to be reasonable accurate!

previously i thought it was 13.5% just re-read and its definately was 13.9%


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## zero2hero2013

ok, so i weighed in with a morning weight of 84kg, kinda suprised but not worried. yesterday i ate 2300 cals, 280g of carbs, 200g of protein, and 40g of fat. 55g of the carbs came from a tropical fruit juice :-( i think if i had just had water it would of worked out much better. 240cals less and my carb protein ratio would of levelled better. either way i still was under maintenance by a good 200 so its no big deal.

interested to see where the scales sit next friday as it will be the end of my first mini cut.

i dont plan to post everyday just very bored and kinda surprised by the 2kg drop in just under 3 days. i dont think it can be all water weight, and if my bf test yesterday says i dropped o.5kg of fat of it had to be in the first 48 hours of switching from 3500 calories to 2000 . i mean there s 4000 calories less between the two, maybe this short bulk thing is not such a wild idea.i mean if my body got used to the 3500 calories and didnt seem to gain any fat (according to my bf test) in the first 3 weeks, and then reducing so sharply i would end up at a much higher deficit at least for the first few days due to my overdrived metabolism. very curious to see how this works over the next few months. will i gain and lose 3-4kg evertime? just have to sit it out and rely on the tests to show how well its working i guess

i will always do my bf test after lunch so there is similar conditions for it. i will also try to do the test around 2 days into my cut.


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## zero2hero2013

morning weight is still at 84kg. ate around 2200 most days, did a little calculation based on bmr, activity levels etc. and to lose 1lb a week i shoul be eating 1900 before exercise, hence the 2200 as i have been gym all 3 days. rest day today but need some repair calories so going to sit at 2000 hopefully.

still hoping 83.5kg by friday then its time to begin the bulk stage again. cant wait!


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## zero2hero2013

final weigh in for month 1 cut, 83.7kg, very happy with this. next its time to gain as much weight as possible. 2 weeks of 3500-4000 calories all as healthy as possible! aiming to weigh in at 84.5-85.5kg morning weight


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## RickMiller

There's nothing wrong with the method you've chosen. It's one of many routes to gain muscle mass and perhaps the phasic style is best for you (e.g. hypercaloric for 4-6 weeks, 2 weeks hypocaloric...repeat). I would not shoot for such high amounts of weight gain per week though, my advice would always be 0.5-1lb per week maximum for a natural trainee, you just cannot accrue new tissue any faster than this.

It all depends on what suits you. End of the day, if you end up in 6 months heavier and more muscular with less body fat you did something right


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## zero2hero2013

i gain 1 to 1.5kg of water weight every time i swap so i am hoping for a 2-3lb water weight gain and 2lbs of actual gain. thanks though its nice to have some positive in put.


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## RickMiller

xroguexkevinx said:


> i gain 1 to 1.5kg of water weight every time i swap so i am hoping for a 2-3lb water weight gain and 2lbs of actual gain. thanks though its nice to have some positive in put.


Well it seems to be doing me fine, and I must have tried almost every method going


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## Saffaboy

Sorry didn't read it all, but you can't have a short bulk as a natural trainer.


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## RickMiller

Saffaboy said:


> Sorry didn't rad it all, but you can't have a short bulk as a natural trainer.


Agreed, the overall length of the 'gaining phase' (for want of a better word) should probably be as long as possible to maximise muscle retention but I don't see why this can't be broken up into microcycles? Or are have I missed your point?


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## kites1664

really interesting thread as a newbie, have subbd and will be following with great interest. how's it gone in the last few weeks?


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## zero2hero2013

erm. i decided i wanted to lower my bf a little more. i did a full month cut, and i think my body fat must be around 10% now. i plan to continue for 2 more weeks, and then picking up the short bulking idea through to february. although my in the 6 weeks i did it i managed to gain 3kg of lean mass and lose 1kg of body fat. which i dont think is a bad amount. although i have stopped currently my strength gains from before are still here and have not faded away. although i have had no gains since (well no major gains) i am confident when i start my next mini bulk the 2nd week will be stronger!

pre short bulking maximum 5x5 bench was 60-65kg depending on at what point in the session i did it.

currently i am at 75-85kg depending on how much food i have eaten over the days before. 10-20kg increase in 6 weeks doesnt seem bad to me lol. aiming to get upto 100kg by xmas even if it is only 2-3 reps currently i cant get 90kg of my chest.

my biggest problem i think is my long arms, 2 of my freinds are 5-10ish and their bench is so much smaller in height then mine. no excuses i will catch them lol


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## kites1664

that certainly seems like some good gains, I know what you mean about arm length, I am about 6ft2 and find the same thing.

I still prefer being taller though :thumb:

Great thread and interesting research on yourself here though, have some reps for a job well done.


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## zero2hero2013

ok, so weight currently, 81.6kg before carb up, 82.4kg after carb up. aiming to lose another 2kg which should drop my bf % under 9. although i think i might do a mini bulk again for 2 weeks starting next week. aims for next month are:

81kg(no water weight) by friday the 21st, then 83-84kg by the 4th of november (including water wieght) at this point i will get another body fat test.

the last 6 weeks have looked like this first 2 weeks bulking, next 4 weeks cutting, 3 days left of cutting, drifted from the original 2 weeks of each, purely as i wanted to be leaner. still plan on losing body fat and gaining mucle on a monthly basis.

always going to do bf test after my bulk, but 1-3 days into cutting. as this should keep the muscle glycogen around the same amount. (if i did it during the end of the cut it would be low, as well as water retention, which would make my lean mass lower and screw the fairness of the results)


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## zero2hero2013

81.2kg as of this morning so im happy about that. decided to do a further week of cutting to try and get down to 80ish. then as from next friday i will start eating 3500 calories on gym days and 3200 on non gym days. i will also mix up my training regime. partly by going back to 3 days on 1 day off. and changing the exercises as well.

currently these are the exercises i do at a 5x5 set/reps heavy as possible.

chest: bench press, extended arms pectoral fly machine, cable butterflys low.

back: one armed bent over row, pull ups, lat pull down wide grip.

shoulders: shoulder press dumbells, shoulder press machine: shoulder shrugs

biceps: chin ups, bicep curls machine

triceps: full body dips, cable push down(close to body)

abs: weighted leg raises, ab pull downs (using lat pull down, sitting backwards using the rope), v sit ups (legs to chest and out again and feet not touching floor)

legs, leg press, leg extension, leg curls, squats

i plan on doing the following but any info is welcomed to help me fill in the holes: 3x8 sets/reps

chest: incline bench, bench press, negative dumbell chest press, (1second up, 4 seconds on way down, hold for a second at the bottom, repeat.

biceps: hammer curls, dumbell normal curls, chin ups

triceps: cable push downs, seated dips, help!

back, close grip lat pull down, bent over row barbell, deadlifts

shoulders, need help!

abs, weighted leg raises, weighted captain chair knee raises. crunches

legs: squats,lunges, still very new to these two exercises

also 3 times a week press ups. heard they can help the core, and build small muscles in obliques, and the bit below the pectorals.

i really want to do a 3 day split so any advice is welcomed. been weight training for 8 months,

also up for the idea of doing 1 routine during the 2 week bulks and another routine that include cardio (small cardio lol) during the 2 weeks cuts.


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## retro-mental

First time i ever bulked i none it dirty and for about 6 months. I do not know what amounts i was eating but there was chips, pizza, pasties even loads of icecream in my protein shakes.

In that time i gained near 2 stone of weight, ligfting was the strongest i have ever done and had stretch marks round my legs, I had gained a fair bit of muscle but also alot of fat with it. Hoping ( before i knew much ) i could loose the fat and keep the muscle in the summer but to shift fat like that you gotta work hard and when you work hard you loose muscle so ended up not really achieveing much.

I am bulking now but cleaner and i have gained a stone in 10-12 weeks with little fat. Have had alot of good info and help on here and i feel that this time round i can eventually acheive something. I look at it like the hare and tortoise race !!!!


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## zero2hero2013

i think i get the idea of what your saying, i do plan on bulking as clean as possible. my aim is literally to gain 1lb of weight a week twice a month and then lose 1-2lbs a week for the other 2 weeks. hopefully after 3-4 months i would be up 6-8lbs of muscle and down 3-4lbs of fat. that should get me sub 10% and i think i am at 10% now. so if i can drop 4lbs that should make me around 8-9%. as long as my strength keeps progressing i know i am moving in the right direction as strength gains at this point must be reflected in muscle gains.


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## zero2hero2013

also if this work i will probably continue untill i plateau. and when my bodyfat starts getting really low i might even do 3-4 weeks bulking to 2 weeks cutting. my aim is to never get any fatter then currently while still being able to make gains.

fingers crossed this time next year i will weigh 90+kg while having bodyfat % around 7-8.

currently 81kg with 10%.

18-22lbs gained (i am still a newbie so hoping to get good gains earlier on) in 1 year total of 8-10lbs less fat. should look awesome if i can acieve this. i am not planning on becoming a monster, but lean, strong and sexy lol


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## zero2hero2013

ok, so i have changed my mind already. next two weeks from today back to bulking phase.

expected diet, 3400 on gym days, 2900 on non gym day. thats + 500 calories approx on gym days and + 300 on non gym day.


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## zero2hero2013

food log:

7am 50g whey protein, 35g of protein approx, 200 calories

9am 50g whey protein, 35g of protein approx, 200 calories

10.45 lucozade orange + chicken tikka sandwhich 25g of protein, 610 calories together. carbing up!

12am peanuts 50g 14g protein 300 calories. good fats and fibre

1pm tuna+mayo jacket potaoto 370 calories, 30g of protein approx.

4pm, dinner 1, rice + vegetables + hunters chicken(chicken in a pastry with cheese) 1000 calories, 45g of protein

7pm protein shake 50g, 35g of protein

210 protein approx, descent carbs, low fat overall, around 2900 calorie! no gym today

sound ok to people?


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## gym rat

id thro some evoo or peanut butter in your early morning shakes


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## zero2hero2013

stupid question, but what exactly is evoo?


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## zero2hero2013

extra virgin olive oil. with it now. just couldnt work it out lol. how much would you suggest?


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## RickMiller

gym rat said:


> id thro some evoo or peanut butter in your early morning shakes


Unless the OPs markedly low in essential fatty acids, I'd opt for fish oil which will help with insulin sensitivity over time (through displacement of cell membrane fatty acids with EPA/DHA).

Otherwise no need, it just adds calories.


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## zero2hero2013

put up my latest pics, after 1 months cutting down to 81.2kg morning weight, 82.4kg actual weight at time of pics. slowly progressing, but happy enough getting improvements! ohh had a fab workout yesterday. a friend told me about a way to improve bench press. basically using a cage, we put bars across so i didnt have to lower the bar down to my chest, it was about 3 inches of it. and then starting the movement for a press from the bottom and raising anf lowering. rather then lowering and raising, managed my first 100kg so was well chuffed. normally i couldnt get the 90kg of my chest so if it helps it helps. il keep doing them for while and then lower the bar a little more so it gets 1 inch off my chest. really want to be able to bench 100kg properly but need more time. and this should allow significant overload for my chest muscles so they adapt and get stronger quickers. also started doing negative chest press with dumbells , really painfu but a great workout!


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## zero2hero2013

ok, need some advice, how much water can we gain in 3 days? friday morning i weighed 81,2kg my lowest weight, with no water at all, probably very little glycogen as well. ate around 4000 calories everyday this weekend, and woke up weighing 84.3kg this morning, i know i ate a bit of crap at the weekend but i also got plenty of protein in there. i wouldnt say that i had much sodium though. is 3 kg possible in water and glycogen replenishment?


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## zero2hero2013

ok so i am still 84.3kg and its been another 3 days, guess i dont have to worry, its not like i have kept on rising too fast in terms of weight, got another big session tonight on my back and abs! loving the increase in strentgh, managed ot get new Personal bests in everything so far, next week should really have some improvements. i cant decide wether to bulk for just 2 weeks or wether to extend it to 1 or 2 months, then cut during january. decisions decisions, ohh i got a body fat test next wednesday, which will be 2 days before my two weeks is up. might just see how that pans out and decide form there!

fingers crossed!


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## kites1664

will be interesting to see your next BF results keep it up mate


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## zero2hero2013

hey, this is a link to another thread i have going, its got some latest pics, and its got the pics of me when i started short bulking (kinda) on august 20th, i have done 2 weeks cutting, 2 weeks bulking, 4 weeks cutting, and now 1 week into my second bulk. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/natural-bodybuilding/153727-my-9-month-transformation-2.html

just saves me re posting. i am going to repeat the original idea of 2 weeks, cutting and bulking, as 2 weeks bulking seems to make an impact. although i wont know for sure whether it is purely fat loss or actual muscle gains, it certainly looks like a bit of muscle gained


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## kites1664

Love the other journal, are you going to be transfering to this one now, I'll sub to the new one if thats the case?


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## zero2hero2013

this will be the mina one that i put info into. the other one was more of a look at the changes thing.

currently 84.3kg and have settled at this weight for 5 days straight now. a good sign i think as i have been eating +1000 calories pretty much every days for the past 7, so i could of gained a kg in theory


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## andymc88

How much lean bodymass have you gained and how much fat have you lost up to now?

Thinking of trying this my self

Sorry I've read most of your posts just really busy with work and on my Fone


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## zero2hero2013

got a body fat test on wednesday so you will know weds night all the stats. i have definately dropped some fat off, and gained strength now whether i gained mass is hard to say as when fat dissapears they look bigger anyways, fingers crossed 11% bodyfat or less which would be 5lbs in 2 months


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## ironman1985bcn

Don't want to burst your bubble mate,but you are not close to 11% if that is the actual you on your avi... I personally don't get my % measured, since I rather look myself on the mirror.... That's a better scale measurement. I cut/bulk till I think I look the way I should, also every month I weigh myself and take waist, arms, chest, legs, calves measurements...

My sights on this  Anyway


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## zero2hero2013

the picture was me at 14% and my belly looks worse then it is purley because i have a little extra skin from losing 4 stone in weight


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## RickMiller

Doing well mate, some great body composition changes  keep going.


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## zero2hero2013

cheers mate


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## zero2hero2013

ok, so went out saturday night and got hammered! havent been gym since thursday night :-(

currently weighing 84.7kg which is fine, hoping it drops back to 84.3kg as i am sure its alcohol related. didnt eat or train right at the weekend but was a fun weekend none the less, id say calories were around maintenance for saturday sunday, although not anything healthy although i did have a couple water protein shakes on both days. fingers crossed it doesnt have any serious implications on my outcomes.

bodyfat test on wedsnesday. duh dum.duh dum lol


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## PHMG

been their, done it. you can get fat very fast if you dirty bulk. a lot faster than people think. i ent from full abs to barely any in 3 weeks. If i ate about 1000 less cals and kept food clean, im sure this wouldnt have happened.


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## zero2hero2013

i understand what your saying but, i cut again on saturday so its 2 weeks 1000 cals + then 2 weeks at around 750 deficit. any fat gained should dissapear by the end of the 2 weeks cutting ready for the next bulk. this will be my second bf test since doing this and i managed 4lb increase after the first month. although i know 2lbs would be water weight. i am hoping my new stats show me at 2lbs more lean mass this time and 3-4lbs less fat, did a 4 week cut instead of 2 last time. one good thing is that my shoulderblade muscle become alot more visible in the 4 weeks and they are still very visible now. so i have still managed to keep some of the fat off. i think i am going to use this as a better measure of fat gains. got a little excess skin on stomach that doesnt look too bad but doesnt tighten around my abs properly.


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## zero2hero2013

ok so managed to do a great chest work out yesterday although i now ownt be able to make it to the gym tonight  aching all over and did a little back and shoulders work at the same time.

managed to do 5x5 80kg bench press, which isnt my heaviest but a good effort for me. also did 7 neagtive 107kg bench press. ohh also managed to do 3 reps at 90kg which is the heaviest i have ever managed to actually lift off from my chest so was pretty pleased.

my weight currently is 84.7kg. only a 1lb increase in 10 days so i think thats acceptable. eating clean although still at 4000 calories, dong some research online, and i had my bmr at 1950, 2600 for maintenance and then 3000 after exercise so i thought 4000 meant 1000 calories surplus. did another calculator and it actually came out that i need 4000 for a 1lb a week increase. i think the maths was liek this.

lbm*12= 1980, mutiply by 1.6, making 3168, then number of minutes doing weights x5, number of minutes doing cardio times 8 i think it was. although my cardio = 0 lol. so i do 5 hours a week roughly, 1 hour sessions 5 to 6 times a week 3 on 1 off. then divide the combined cardio+weights answers by 7(days in the week) so 215, add this to the original 3168, making 3385 calories. then add 500 for muscle building. making 3885, and i am eating around 3900 most days. maybe this is a little high and my original was a little low.

but some where between 3400 and 3800 should be the right amount to eat i think.

what do people think, 6ft2, 185lbs approx, 165lbs lbm approx. 3400-3800 calories be ok?


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## zero2hero2013

got my test done today! results are. 192lbs weight, 11.6% bf, this makes it 169.7 lbs of lean mass and 22.26 lbs of fat,

woohoo!

i rounded this up to much, accurate below


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## zero2hero2013

xroguexkevinx said:


> had the best results ever! wow. so previously i was 13.9%(september 2nd) 84.6kg total weight, lean weight of 72.8kg and fat weight of 11.8kg, today after 3 weeks of 3500kcals and eating clean i am.....
> 
> 13.1%(september 22nd) body fat! 86kg total weight, lean weight of 74.7kg and a fat weight 11.3kg]i am absolutely stoked! almost 4lbs gained and 2lbs lost all within 3 weeks, confused but happy! i made him do a average of 3 reading per site as well so i know its got to be reasonable accurate!
> 
> previously i thought it was 13.5% just re-read and its definately was 13.9%


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## zero2hero2013

ok, so goin to convert this into lbs, everyone on here uses lbs rights? this is the breakdown so far of what i have done

prior to september dieting constantly for months....

september 2nd bf test: 13.9% weighing 186.5lbs, lbm 160.54, fat 25.91

started bulking at 3600 calories approx for 3 weeks

september 22nd bf test: 13.1% weighing 189.54lbs, lbm 164.71 so + 4.2lbs, fat of 24.83 -1.08lbs

spent 4 weeks cutting and just under 2 weeks bulking, around 3800-4000 calories appox

november 2nd bf test: 11.6% 191.08lbs weight, lbm 168.92 +4.2lbs lbs of lean mass and 22.16 lbs -2.67lbs ,

so total gains and losses:

5 weeks bulking total making 8.4lbs lean mass gained

4 weeks cutting losing 3.75lbs

alll this in 9 weeks! wow!!!!!


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## zero2hero2013

the next time i bulk im going to try power house's suggestion, i am going to cut the calories back to 3400 maximum and see if i can get similar results or prevent less fat accumilating. i reckon before the bulk i was probably another 2lbs less in fat.... and this time i dont plan on cutting for 4 weeks, just the intended 2. so il need to be carefull i think not to gain fat.


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## RickMiller

xroguexkevinx said:


> ok, so goin to convert this into lbs, everyone on here uses lbs rights? this is the breakdown so far of what i have done
> 
> prior to september dieting constantly for months....
> 
> september 2nd bf test: 13.9% weighing 186.5lbs, lbm 160.54, fat 25.91
> 
> started bulking at 3600 calories approx for 3 weeks
> 
> september 22nd bf test: 13.1% weighing 189.54lbs, lbm 164.71 so + 4.2lbs, fat of 24.83 -1.08lbs
> 
> spent 4 weeks cutting and just under 2 weeks bulking, around 3800-4000 calories appox
> 
> november 2nd bf test: 11.6% 191.08lbs weight, lbm 168.92 +4.2lbs lbs of lean mass and 22.16 lbs -2.67lbs ,
> 
> so total gains and losses:
> 
> 5 weeks bulking total making 8.4lbs lean mass gained
> 
> 4 weeks cutting losing 3.75lbs
> 
> alll this in 9 weeks! wow!!!!!


Excellent results  I would imagine your new experiment will yield more transient changes, but there'll be less of a transition between cutting and bulking making it psychologically more bearable  good luck!


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## zero2hero2013

nice 

im hoping i get slightly better fat loss, i know il probably get less lean mass gains but if i do it right i might be able to get maximum gains with minimal fat gains allowing just fat loss during the cut part. i reckon 3400 calories should do it. only time will tell...


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## zero2hero2013

these pictures were taken on august 20th approx, which was a week and a half before i started short bulks, although you could call it the first cut phase


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## zero2hero2013

these were all taken on the 28th september


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## zero2hero2013

these are from the 20th of october after my latest cut


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## zero2hero2013

taken 1 week ago, i was only 1 week into this bulk


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## scolivan

Looks very intersting m8 just started back training after a long lay off and getting myself back into shape but will definately be giving this a shot when I look at bulking.


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## zero2hero2013

i think its great if you wish to build some muscle, while aiming to lose or maintain your fat. probably best to approach it from 14-15% if you are willing to spend 6 months slowly getting down to 10% and gaining reasonable strength and muscle gains.

also i would state it will work better on people like myself who are new to building and havent got loads of muscle to start, if you used to be much stronger, i am sure muscle memory will give the same results allowing quick muscle gains.

only time will tell as to how long i will be able to make gains like this but while i am i will continue and post along the way!

personally i hope to drop my fat down to around 8% eventually and be able to maintain it there while building muscle on a monthly basis all year round. although if and when my muscle gains slow i will re evaluate how i approach this. hopefully just increasing my intensity in the gym and my food intake during the bulking phases


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## zero2hero2013

1 more day before i have to start eating less again :-0 sad days


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## maxie

Some good changes there keep it going.


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## zero2hero2013

ok, so should of started cutting this weekend, didnt go so well, in fact i would say my whole diet was poor, focused today, although i am starving at the moment... just need to adapt to low calories again, i am finding it alot harder to switch this time although eating 3000 calories both days and not healthily has definately not helped :-(

MY AIMS FOR TODAY IS: 1900 calories, high protein, 180g+, low carbs, 40g or less and medium fats, 80-100g, 880 calories from protein and carb, rest from fats.100g should be around 900 calories.


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## zero2hero2013

ok, dissapeared for a while. still plodding towards my goal 

currently i am 86kg on average and at 11.2% bodyfat approximately. this means i have around 20.5lbs of fat and 169lbs of lean mass, i have been cutting for the most part although i had a 3 week break from everything and gained around 2.5kg of fat duringt this time. cut for the past 3 weeks and i am officially lower then ever before on bodyfat.

new plan is to short bulk for the next 2 weeks then cut through the majority of january, hoping to get similar results to previous with february 2nd resulting in 171-173lb of lean mass and 16-17lbs of fat, this should leave me at 9.5 - 10.5%.

wish me luck


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## zero2hero2013

currently weighing 89.4kg or 197lbs, had a major over eat over xmas with little training, weirdly although i look bigger, i dont think i look fatter at all. i will wait till friday before taking any pics as i am carrying water weight at the moment, hoping ot be down to around 87kg by friday 

here is a pcture of me on december 19th before i started over eating just to show my progress.

what do people think?


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## zero2hero2013

ohh completely relaxed in the picture too!


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## zero2hero2013

here is mid september (right)against mid december (left), there is around 3kg difference in lean mass and maybe 1kg less fat.



i think there is quite different changes in them


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## boricuarage

Havent read your whole thread, but IMO short bulk will only work if you eat dirty. I could be wrong, but I'm a fast gainer and can loose it quick. For example, i was 164 on a PH last thursday, caught the stomach flu, going out both ways for 3 days and when i mean both ways i mean throwing up and the other thing, now I'm 155... Luckily im a short bastard, so you can only notice in my face. It's thinner.. I'm better, but won't eat good till I'm 100 percent... I will DB till the fullest, gain what I earn and keep it clean again.

To critique you a lil and not be an ass!! You have major work to do on your chest. Some people got the genes some don't. My chest and shpulders are well develop. Its my bi's and legs, i have to work extra hard!!

Good luck, i will be following this thread!


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## zero2hero2013

yeah my chest is one of my weaker areas, although its has grown substantially from the begining, originally i was 43'' chest lost loads of fat and got it down to 38'' now it is around 44'' so its coming along well. im not sure if you saw the pics on the page opposite but the newer one was the left and the older on on right. i edited the post to make it more clear. i think my pecs have changed alot in that 2-3 months.

i havent been short bulking to much lately but plan on doing alot of bulking this year. after my holiday which i go on feb 2nd and return end of feb


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## zero2hero2013

right, i am back, i am going to follow my previous style of muscle building and weight loss. currently i am

14.1%bodyfat, weighing 89kg, making 76.5kg lbm and 12.5kg of fat. ive been a little lost for the past 4 months, but i am trying to bulk now and have looked over all my results and training over the past year which looks like so.

march-sept - major fat loss, started 107kg 33% bf,

sept-november - major muscle gains and little fat loss (doing shortbulks) as previous

november - nothing, little training and no food awareness, gained fat, didnt lose musch muscle

december - 2 weeks dieting, then xmas... gained fat or stayed the same overall

january- major dieting, lost some muscle and fat

february - holiday in brazil put all the fat back on.

march - began by bulking for 2 weeks....., muscles are now the same as they were. 4 months wasted, not any more though!

now looking forwards 1 week of heavy dieting. follow by 2 weeks of major eating. i am going to continue this untill no more gains seem to come then re think. wish me luck,


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## zero2hero2013

todays training,

chest

45 mins total, 5 mins jog warm up

bench press, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

incline bench press: 5x5 @50kg

dumbell press [email protected]

cable cross overs, [email protected] setting 6

pec fly, 2x5 @ setting 12

30 raised leg crunches, 20 leg raises


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## zero2hero2013

todays training,

lat pulldown wide grip, [email protected], [email protected] 125lbs [email protected]

Bent over row, [email protected] 35kg per dumbell

seated row, [email protected]

lat pull down front grip close, [email protected]

chin ups, 1 set of 4 (just to exhaust myself at the end)

pull ups, 1 set of 4, (just to exhaust myself at the end)

20 raised leg crunches, 30 leg raises


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## zero2hero2013

todays workout

Squats	5	5	80	kg

leg press	3	5	350	lbs

1	10	290	lbs

Leg curls	3	5	70	kg

leg extension	3	5	80	kg

Calf leg press	3	10	350	lbs

Lying raised leg medicine ball crunches	2	10

Lying raised leg medicine ball leg lift	2	15


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## timeiseverythin

Can someone please private message me on how i post my own page on a forum as i have some question i want to ask but not sure as im new to this. thanks!


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## zero2hero2013

ok went afk from my posts, but! i just had my bodyfat test done today, dieted hard for 2 weeks and now bulked for around 2 weeks.

soo!!! i weigh 92kg currently, my latest bodyfat test just said i am 13.79%! thats lower then previously and i weigh 3.5kg more. it works out that my fat in kg is 12.69 making my lean mass 79.31kg  previously on march 8th it was 76.5kg lean mass and 12.5kg fat.

2.80kg of lean mass and only 0.18kg of fat in the past 4 weeks. hmm time to repeat i think  i will post up when i get my next bodyfat test done in around 4 weeks time.

so here it is i am living proof this method works, 2 weeks cutting, 2 week bulking directly after, end result, major muscle gains and minimal fat gains, bulking heaven! as previously stated i dont think i am going to deviate from this diet untill it stops getting me gains. and 2kg a month gains i can live with


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## zero2hero2013

ok, fridays weigh in was 90.5kg. this was fasted morning weight.

did chest/shoulders tuesday,

bench press 5x5 75kg

overhead press 5x5 2x 22.5kg dumbells

incline chest press 5x5 22.5kg dumbells

Legs/back

squats 5x5 90kg

bent over row 5x5 60kg

Deadlift 1x5 140kg


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## zero2hero2013

Apr 02 2012 11:41

over ate on junk food this weekend, ate 3500 calories on average friday,sat and sunday, going to try and maintain this many calories but in a healthier format from today onwards. hoping i can make some good gains over the next 2 weeks.

fridays training went well. did

Squats, 52.5kg 5x5, 2 warm up sets

bench press: 45kg 5x5, 2 warm up sets

bent over row, 37.5kg, 2 warm up sets

decline abs, 4 sets of 15

Apr 02 2012 13:58

Todays training.

squats, 2 warm ups, 57.5kg 5x5

overhead press, 2 warm ups, 35kg 5x5

deadlift, 2 warms ups,40kg, 60kg and then 75kg 1x5 on all

Apr 04 2012 16:51

friday and monday are bank holidays and my gym is closed!!!!

today i switched from my normal routine to try and minimize its impact.

todays training:

Bench press: [email protected]

overhead press, [email protected] [email protected]

incline dumbell chest press [email protected]

shoulder shrugs, 5x5 100kg

cable crossovers 3,[email protected] 5

Apr 04 2012 16:53

food, 3000-3500 calories for 6 days straight.

starting weight was 86kg, after day 1, 88kg, day 2, 90kg, day 3 89kg, currently 89kg so my weight has settled with the new food intake.

generally going very strong too. healthy foods!! averaging 300g of protein daily!

Apr 05 2012 13:34

todays tarining, very intense but little of it

Squats

1x5 @ 60kg,80kg,90kg, 2x5 @ 100kg!!! woohooo took a good 5 mins between sets but oh yeah baby!!!

bent over row barbell

5x5 @ 60kg

deadlift 1 x 5 @ 120kg

back is aching but just about in a good way, have to be careful today and tomorrow is rest day so should be fine. so happy i managed to get 100kg done! i remember in november last year i tried 100kg and it literally just fealt like my back was going to snap lol. today though struggled but finished 2 full sets!!!! hoping that next tuesday i can repeat it and get 3 sets @ 100kg!! woohoo

FOOD was pretty good, ate 3800 cals and all of it healthy, minus 200 cals lol. damn snickers lol.

Apr 13 2012 10:51

ooopps completely forgot to log my journal lol.

okies. tuesday 10th exercise

bench press [email protected] 75kg

over head press 5x5 dumbells, 5x5 45kg

incline dumbell press 2x5 50kg 2x5 40kg

weds 11th

Squats 1 5 70 kg kg 5 5 90 kg Bent over row 5 5 60 kg Deadlift 1 5 140 kg

Apr 14 2012 08:36

been really fatigued all week, i think i have a cold lingering in my system.

bench press [email protected] 75kg

over head press 5x5 dumbells, 5x5 45kg

incline dumbell press 2x5 50kg 2x5 40kg

been eating ok, around 3500 each day. i think i am looking better week by week. next 2 weeks from tomorrow will be dieting. lets see how low i can get my weight. i think it will be around 88kg first week. fingers crossed

ok, so switching to low calorie for two weeks, and mixing up my reps.

squats, [email protected] 40kg [email protected] 70kg

bench press, [email protected] ,3x10 @55kg

incline bench press, [email protected]

Apr 17 2012 13:20

had a great workout today!

3x10x60kg Bent over rows barbell

2x10x40kg, 1x7x40kg over head press

3x10x120kg, 3x1x150kg deadlift

3x10x80kg, 1x5x110kg , 1 deadlift x shrugs

my strength in my legs and back seem to be steadily increasing! good signs!

Apr 20 2012 08:13

thurs 19th april

Squats 1 10 50 kg, 1 10 80 kg, 1 5 90 kg, 1 3 100 kg,

Bench Press 1 10 50 kg, 3 10 60 kg,

incline bench press barbell 2 10 50 kg, 1 5 60 kg,

Pec dec 3 10 13 setting

Apr 20 2012 13:06

Over head press 1 7 45 kg

2 10 45 kg

Bent over row 1 10 45 kg

3 10 70 kg

Deadlift 2 5 120 kg

1 9 120 kg

3 1 140 kg

shoulder shrugs 2 5 120 kg

lat pull down 1 10 120 lbs

1 5 137.5 lbs

Apr 24 2012 09:02

i am really happy with how the training is going, i seem to be getting generally stronger and stronger every week! currently i am focusing on my back but my legs keep improving extremely quickly! chest seems to be growing so i am going to continue exactly as i am.

training yesterday23/04/2012

Squats 1 10 60 kg, 1 10 80 kg, 1 10 90 kg, 1 6 100 kg, 1 5 80 kg,

Bench Press 2 10 60 kg, 1 8 60 kg

incline bench press barbell 2 10 50 kg, 1 6 50 kg,

15 ab crunches raised leg, 15 exercis ball leg lifts


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## scouse2010

I belive you should just get your bf down to like 10%bf and then slow bulk for life (500cals over maintence,obvs some people need more than that to grow)unless your doing this to go on stage.

Now this is probably due to noob gains but I restarted lifting once again this year and ive been eating around 3200-3500 cals and ive put on 8kg-17lb

I started of with about 18% bf and now I am at around 20%bf

I do have a fair bit of fat but I dont think ive put on much fat.

slow and steady wins the race


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## scouse2010

zero2hero2013

how long have you been training for ? With them lifts you would be better of suited to a basic strengh program.you will still gain muscle while on one and after you finish it you will put on muscle mroe easily because you are lifting heavier weights.


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