# How to reduce post injection pain(pip).



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Post injection pain can literally be a pain in the butt, amongst other places.

Hygiene and sterility, pre injection is obviously paramount in avoiding PIP.

We all know what that means, for those who don't it's in the stickies.

Ok, for the last month iv'e been using the Z track method and found that PIP especially in my quads is practically non-existent.

How to employ the Z track method?

Firstly get your injection point, then pull the skin across or down from that point, this moves the cutaneous and subcutaneous tissues a centimetre or two, this helps reduce the sensitivity of nerve endings, remembering to keep an eye on the injection point.

Next insert the needle sharply in at a 90dg angle to the depth you need.

Inject the steroid (after aspirating) at a rate of about 10 secs/ml, when fully injected keep the needle in place for another 10secs, so allowing the steroid to seep into the muscle.

Remove the syringe quickly, at exactly the angle you went in and release the skin, this is what stops any of your steroid leaking out and reduces bleeds, then apply a little pressure to the area, but *don't *massage the area immediately afterwards, wait a couple of minutes or you can cause some of the oil to be released back up the needle track and into subcutaneous tissue, which can lead to swelling and PIP.

Exercising the muscle afterwards will assist the absorption of the steroid by increasing blood flow to the area.

Finally, if you know where and how to inject safely into the ventrogluteal muscle, this is the best choice as there are no major nerves or blood vessel.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

looking forward to trying this later on. thanks


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## redman (Feb 2, 2008)

Excellent info mate, Very very Excellent. Reps.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

redman said:


> Excellent info mate, Very very Excellent. Reps.


Cheers redman, you kind of gave me the idea with your sticky, i think it would make a good prologue.


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## TomTom1 (Feb 1, 2007)

is this what you mean about moving the layers apart?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

bb the great said:


> is this what you mean about moving the layers apart?


Nice, love those gloves and hand technique, she can jab me anytime


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

10secs per ml injection speed? i do about 30-40 secs otherwise i find it hurts more after..

i also find a very gentle massage to be beneficial to reducing pain..

so i do the complete opposite to what the article says! whoops!


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Who worte the article?


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

To reduce the pain i massage the jab site with a fresh swab for about a minute.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Magic Torch said:


> Who worte the article?


I did, from information gathered on the Z track method and IM injection protocol for the NHS.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

DB said:


> 10secs per ml injection speed? i do about 30-40 secs otherwise i find it hurts more after..
> 
> i also find a very gentle massage to be beneficial to reducing pain..
> 
> so i do the complete opposite to what the article says! whoops!


Yeah well thats cause your a girly DB:laugh:

I always did the same up till a month ago, but have found this method has really reduced PIP.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Ollie B said:


> To reduce the pain i massage the jab site with a fresh swab for about a minute.


Me too,(used to) but looking at it, the method does make sense.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

This method is the dogs! I just had the sweetest inj ever cheers mate!


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

DB said:


> 10secs per ml injection speed? i do about 30-40 secs otherwise i find it hurts more after..
> 
> i also find a very gentle massage to be beneficial to reducing pain..
> 
> so i do the complete opposite to what the article says! whoops!


 40 seconds per mil?? must feel like forever when you put 3+ ml in!!


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

how many days do you have to leave a site before re-using it?? if only using 2-3 ml shots?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

miles2345 said:


> how many days do you have to leave a site before re-using it?? if only using 2-3 ml shots?


7 days minimum, no matter how many ml you inject.

Always use the smallest guage needle possible to get the job done.


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Good info, mars1960. :thumbup1:

Cheers mate.


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## xzx (Jun 6, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> Post injection pain can literally be a pain in the butt, amongst other places.
> 
> Hygiene and sterility, pre injection is obviously paramount in avoiding PIP.
> 
> ...


Im a bit of a newbie to gear, but have had a couple of painfull shots.

From memory, Im almost sure I hurried it and came back out with the needle at the wrong angle. Could the post pain the following day I had be caused by traumatising the muscle?

Big Reps, cheers for that


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

xzx said:


> Im a bit of a newbie to gear, but have had a couple of painful shots.
> 
> From memory, Is almost sure I hurried it and came back out with the needle at the wrong angle. Could the post pain the following day I had be caused by traumatising the muscle?
> 
> Big Reps, cheers for that


More than likely mate, muscle trauma is obviously a precursor to PIP, especially in newbs to injecting, i def moved the needle around a bit on my first jab, it's only natural to be a little apprehensive.


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## Graham24 (Jul 28, 2008)

Done the Z-Track method this morning, the most painless easy jab i have done so far, slight ache at the moment but no where what i have experience before.

Cheers for the advice.


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

Done a winny shot last night, was my most quickest and painless jab ever.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

DB said:


> 10secs per ml injection speed? i do about 30-40 secs otherwise i find it hurts more after..
> 
> i also find a very gentle massage to be beneficial to reducing pain..
> 
> so i do the complete opposite to what the article says! whoops!


I find slower is better as long as the needle is fixed firmly in the same place.

If its wigeling about because you are trying to shoot in a difficult to reach muscle group then it can better to put the oil in a bit quicker.

I always leave the pin in for a second before withdrawing.

Also I find keeping the plunger depressed when withdrawing the pin also helps because if you leave it go you create some additional back pressure.


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## dave20 (Sep 21, 2005)

I was just curious as to how people insert the needle??

I insert slowly... but i've seen a few techniques and some people insert like a dart... I dont think i could do that for fear of missing the injection site!!

I never get PIP from anything really, maybe a very dull ache but nothing major.


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## mrbicep (May 23, 2009)

dave20 said:


> I was just curious as to how people insert the needle??
> 
> I insert slowly... but i've seen a few techniques and some people insert like a dart... I dont think i could do that for fear of missing the injection site!!
> 
> I never get PIP from anything really, maybe a very dull ache but nothing major.


I agree, I inject slowly too. Is that very bad or acceptable?


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## medici999 (May 26, 2009)

what size needles do you use for the glute and what length, i use blue for injecting and there 1 and a quarter inch i believe.

i have only ever injected my glute, where would be the next best place to rotate sites?

thanks


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

medici999 said:


> i have only ever injected my glute, where would be the next best place to rotate sites?
> 
> thanks


your other glute


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## mrbicep (May 23, 2009)

I'm about to start using 25g (orange) 5/8" needles for my delts and biceps (as i've read). Since I have about 100 of these can I also use them for my quads? (Injecting winnie btw).


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## prebbz (May 21, 2009)

gonna try this


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## Squirrel (Jun 7, 2009)

Great post, reps mate....Gonna give that a go when I start my next course in Sept' as a big wussie and hate pip.

BTW, are the gay blue gloves a necessity or can I use Marigolds? :lol:


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## ichigo (Dec 22, 2008)

Reps mars im thinking of doing a test cycle next year this was a great help cheers


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I tried it on a quad today for the first time after reading this last night..... I got a mil of prop in but my quad bled like fuk ....

The draw back as I see it is I lost sight of the surface veins by stretching the skin, I'm not a fan - may try again when I recoup the blood loss


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Uriel said:


> I tried it on a quad today for the first time after reading this last night..... I got a mil of prop in but my quad bled like fuk ....
> 
> The draw back as I see it is I lost sight of the surface veins by stretching the skin, I'm not a fan - may try again when I recoup the blood loss


Yea, quad shots shouldn't be done in the femoral artery, very messy. :lol: .


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> Yea, quad shots shouldn't be done in the femoral artery, very messy. :lol: .


Took me a while to find the [email protected] but I think I did.... was nice bright blood so not de oxigenated but no real spurt to it:laugh:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Uriel said:


> Took me a while to find the [email protected] but I think I did.... was nice bright blood so not de oxigenated but no real spurt to it:laugh:


I doubt very much indeed if you injected into the femoral artery!

If you had, you'd have got a big spurter and very likely a huge haematoma!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> I doubt very much indeed if you injected into the femoral artery!
> 
> If you had, you'd have got a big spurter and very likely a huge haematoma!


:laugh:

I know mate, I aspirated - I just nicked a surface blood vessel.... :lol: (but I have peotic license to bullsh1t it up a bit


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Prodiver said:


> I doubt very much indeed if you injected into the femoral artery!
> 
> If you had, you'd have got a big spurter and very likely a huge haematoma!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: , prodiver forgot his humour hat.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: , prodiver forgot his humour hat.


Nope - but think od all the impressionable d!ckheads on here..!


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Nope - but think od all the impressionable d!ckheads on here..!


Hey.... I'm one of those d1ckheads:lol:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Uriel said:


> Hey.... I'm one of those d1ckheads:lol:


I couldn't possibly comment... :laugh:


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Prodiver said:


> Nope - but think od all the impressionable d!ckheads on here..!


deja vue, 10ml quad jab springs to mind


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> deja vue, 10ml quad jab springs to mind


Yeah, how do you like those apples Patrick:lol:


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Uriel said:


> Yeah, how do you like those apples Patrick:lol:


Nothing wrong with 10 ml in a quad - providing it's done right...


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## chucknorris666 (Jul 20, 2009)

good post il try this on my next shot


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

How to employ the Z track method?

Firstly get your injection point, then pull the skin across or down from that point, this moves the cutaneous and subcutaneous tissues a centimetre or two, this helps reduce the sensitivity of nerve endings, remembering to keep an eye on the injection point.

I think i may be confusing things, but how does one manage to do this on their own, say in the shoulder or glute for example.. :confused1:


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

BRABUS said:


> How to employ the Z track method?
> 
> Firstly get your injection point, then pull the skin across or down from that point, this moves the cutaneous and subcutaneous tissues a centimetre or two, this helps reduce the sensitivity of nerve endings, remembering to keep an eye on the injection point.
> 
> I think i may be confusing things, but how does one manage to do this on their own, say in the shoulder or glute for example.. :confused1:


It's easy to do that in the glute, not so in the delt though, what i'm saying is if you are jabbing were you can use that method then do so.


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## kev74 (May 29, 2010)

hi guys .is it best to go in quick with the needle or nice and slow ? or is it personell preference??


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## Dazzaemm2k7 (Aug 10, 2010)

bump


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