# Medichecks - how's this look ?



## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

Hey all , wonder if anyone with decent knowledge of hormone test results would give this a quick once over and tell me what you think ?

Relevant info . I'm 49 , pretty clean eater , barely drink nowadays , no other reccies , work long hours ( at night ) so sleep is fairly shitty.

Have done about 3 months of ostarine with a week off between and then at the end , three full weeks off. No pharma pct but did daa and have been using mk677 As I read that helps test recovery ( but not if it's flour eh focused nutrition :s )

I'm guessing I don't need trt at this stage , should I be fairly pleased I have some testosterone and stay away from proper aas ? Have started a course of lgd4033 yesterday as I'd read it's far easier to recover from than proper stuff ( and it's focussed nutrition so it might only be baking ingredients anyway ? )

Tia


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

It speaks for itself, everything is within range, it's fine. Your FSH, LH and testosterone could have made a much better recovery with a proper PCT though IMO.


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> It speaks for itself, everything is within range, it's fine. Your FSH, LH and testosterone could have made a much better recovery with a proper PCT though IMO.


 Perhaps a lack of knowledge or experience on my part (no pun intended) there then as the Internet told me ostarine wasn't suppressive and I didn't feel that happening while using. I've got nolva for after the lgd though.

What are your thoughts on my shbg? is that in a range you'd view a high? to a degree that comprises free test and if so what can I do about it naturally or otherwise?

Guess I'm gonna stop eating that bloody ground flax though lol.

Thanks for the reply btw


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

gazzamongo said:


> Perhaps a lack of knowledge or experience on my part (no pun intended) there then as the Internet told me ostarine wasn't suppressive and I didn't feel that happening while using. I've got nolva for after the lgd though.
> 
> What are your thoughts on my shbg? is that in a range you'd view a high? to a degree that comprises free test and if so what can I do about it naturally or otherwise?
> 
> ...


 Ostarine is suppressive, but only to a mild degree, your SHBG was more than likely high and your other hormones low to begin with. Nothing you can do about it naturally and you would not need a full PCT considering you are producing but 25mg per day of clomid by itself couldn't go amiss to bring your FSH and LH up, in turn increasing your testosterone. You don't need a heavy PCT after using something like ostarine but it would be my recommendation.

As for SHBG it is the protein your free and bound testosterone binds to to make its way through your system, I'm not sure why you think it would compromise free test? Or am I missing something?


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Ostarine is suppressive, but only to a mild degree, your SHBG was more than likely high and your other hormones low to begin with. Nothing you can do about it naturally and you would not need a full PCT considering you are producing but 25mg per day of clomid by itself couldn't go amiss to bring your FSH and LH up, in turn increasing your testosterone. You don't need a heavy PCT after using something like ostarine but it would be my recommendation.
> 
> As for SHBG it is the protein your free and bound testosterone binds to to make its way through your system, I'm not sure why you think it would compromise free test? Or am I missing something?


 You know that dream where you suddenly look down and realise you have no trousers on? this thread feels a bit like that. still it's the only way for me to learn I guess.

OK the shbg thing Is ' what the Internet tells me ' again :s

" Excessively high SHBG is problematic especially for males and athletes because it decreases the amount of free testosterone."

" At the conclusion of the study, researchers observed similar levels of total testosterone in vegetarians and omnivores (respectively 1.79 nmol/L vs. 1.76 nmol/L) [9]. In contrast, the vegetarians had a 50% higher level of SHBG than did the omnivores (46 vs. 69 nmol/l) [9]. This suggests that a vegetarian-based protein diet increases SHBG without affecting total testosterone and ultimately leading to a decreasee in free testosterone."

arghhhh. don't want to use the V-word, but I AM one of those plant based folk :s

http://blog.insidetracker.com/testosterone-action-versus-testosterone-levels-why-shbg-matters#

Thanks for the patient replies


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

gazzamongo said:


> You know that dream where you suddenly look down and realise you have no trousers on? this thread feels a bit like that. still it's the only way for me to learn I guess.
> 
> OK the shbg thing Is ' what the Internet tells me ' again :s
> 
> ...


 This has me scratching my head now also. I'm going to research this and get back to you mate. lol


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

I came across that info when looking into plant based omega three sources. that's why I wondered if I needed to sack the ground flax I've been eating


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

gazzamongo said:


> I came across that info when looking into plant based omega three sources. that's why I wondered if I needed to sack the ground flax I've been eating


 I can't find any relevant information in regards to the article you posted to counter the statement, so I'm going on the assumption it's true and I didn't know as much as I thought I did. that being said and out the way I'm assuming you're vegan if you are looking into plant based foods? Fish oil capsules would be more optimal.

As for boosting your test go with a low dose of clomid at 25mg per day for two months or so. You shouldn't need anything more drastic than that and it's your best bet to increase natural test, test boosters are worthless for the record.


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

Im just starting 6-8 weeks of lgd ostarine and mk677 so I'll do the basic testosterone test at the end of that then I'll follow your PCT advice then do the more comprehensive panel to see how the values compare with now.

Omega three is the hardest box to tick as a v**** due to the levels of white privilege involved. ahiflower seems a good source but we're talking £35 a month for me and the gf. that buys 5 bottles of fish oil :s

I'm not a level ten* v**** so I WILL consider eating things that cast a shadow... so due to the austerity lie ( thanks ****servative party) and the fact that fish are boring and stupid I HAVE been covering that Base with fish oil

* it REALLY upsets hardcore v***** when I tell them 'being alive' probably isn't v****


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

So I'm reading that dhea lowers cortisol ( which I'll have plenty of. stress life) and increases free test by lowering shbg, particularly in older people. would that be useful to add to my PCT or even run all the while? e2 controlled by supps if necessary?


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## The doog (Aug 6, 2013)

Test levels look good to me. Especially for 49.

I had a level of 8.9 and that was in my mid-20s.


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

there is no way to modulate shbg directly, forget about it

mine has been same range as you for years, it hasnt budged and I have tried everything


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> there is no way to modulate shbg directly, forget about it
> 
> mine has been same range as you for years, it hasnt budged and I have tried everything


 I'm tempted to give the dhea supplementation a try as its cheap enough. I'll go in without high expectations then given what you've experienced


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> I'm tempted to give the dhea supplementation a try as its cheap enough. I'll go in without high expectations then given what you've experienced


 tried, that.. no effect

the worse part is i was paying for bloods privately after every attempt, i guess SHBG is what it is

winstrol lowered it, but also lowered my total testosterone


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> tried, that.. no effect
> 
> the worse part is i was paying for bloods privately after every attempt, i guess SHBG is what it is
> 
> winstrol lowered it, but also lowered my total testosterone


 No doubt you'll turn out to be completely correct in all you say but I'm just hoping for some individual variation in my response. that z list woman who looks like olive oil ( the z list cartoon celeb not the green stuff in bottle ) swears by it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3626560/Can-pill-really-make-feel-20-years-younger-women-swear-DHEA-anti-ageing-pill-worrying-effects.html

I'm also trying to cling onto being almost natty for a little longer seeing as the boys are still producing and it seems a faff getting into that pin for the rest of your life scenario ?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

mlc2010 said:


> there is no way to modulate shbg directly, forget about it
> 
> mine has been same range as you for years, it hasnt budged and I have tried everything


 Could you explain this more in depth? Can't seem to find much relevant info?


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> No doubt you'll turn out to be completely correct in all you say but I'm just hoping for some individual variation in my response. that z list woman who looks like olive oil ( the z list cartoon celeb not the green stuff in bottle ) swears by it
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3626560/Can-pill-really-make-feel-20-years-younger-women-swear-DHEA-anti-ageing-pill-worrying-effects.html
> 
> I'm also trying to cling onto being almost natty for a little longer seeing as the boys are still producing and it seems a faff getting into that pin for the rest of your life scenario ?


 I don't think SHBG makes as much difference as it says, loads of people have high shbg, for unknown reasons, god knows how many people have it who havent been tested

I didnt feel any different from when my SHBG was 7 to 55

btw, DHEA can convert to estrogen, pretty easily.. probably good for women, not so good for men


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

Quackerz said:


> Could you explain this more in depth? Can't seem to find much relevant info?


 regarding what? modulating SHBG?

It's quite tricky and I can't really explain 4 years worth of work, I'm done with that chapter now, there is no real way to lower SHBG apart from winstrol, it lowered my shbg from 55 to 7. Anything else, didnt budge.. proviron, boron.. or many other minerals and herbs that supposed to lower it, they didnt do jack

I did read people who consume under maintenence calories had higher levels of SHBG, and I have been guilty of that, but lots of people have high shbg who eat healthily


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

mlc2010 said:


> regarding what? modulating SHBG?
> 
> It's quite tricky and I can't really explain 4 years worth of work, I'm done with that chapter now, there is no real way to lower SHBG apart from winstrol, it lowered my shbg from 55 to 7. Anything else, didnt budge.. proviron, boron.. or many other minerals and herbs that supposed to lower it, they didnt do jack
> 
> I did read people who consume under maintenence calories had higher levels of SHBG, and I have been guilty of that, but lots of people have high shbg who eat healthily


 You're right, I think it's mostly down to genetics from how it looks, there is no real defining factor. You say winstrol lowered your SHBG, what about mast? Did you try that?


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

Quackerz said:


> You're right, I think it's mostly down to genetics from how it looks, there is no real defining factor. You say winstrol lowered your SHBG, what about mast? Did you try that?


 I have never done a cycle, so jumping into masteron with male pattern baldness was not a good idea. I only need one pill of winstrol a week for 6 weeks ( 50mg a week ) to lower my shbg, I saw a study

Here is my bloodwork, I've never done a cycle









This one is from 2014, as you can see SHBG is still 50


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

mlc2010 said:


> I have never done a cycle, so jumping into masteron with male pattern baldness was not a good idea. I only need one pill of winstrol a week for 6 weeks ( 50mg a week ) to lower my shbg, I saw a study
> 
> Here is my bloodwork, I've never done a cycle
> 
> ...


 Cheers, I'll take this information into account.


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

Quackerz said:


> Cheers, I'll take this information into account.


 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2723028


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> I don't think SHBG makes as much difference as it says, loads of people have high shbg, for unknown reasons, god knows how many people have it who havent been tested
> 
> I didnt feel any different from when my SHBG was 7 to 55
> 
> btw, DHEA can convert to estrogen, pretty easily.. probably good for women, not so good for men


 I was thinking of adding it into pct and seeing if it helped so that oestrogen aspect would be covered by the serm?

Is low dhea less of an issue if your not natty ? ( Since you can just squirt more aas in as req'd ? )


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> I was thinking of adding it into pct and seeing if it helped so that oestrogen aspect would be covered by the serm?
> 
> Is low dhea less of an issue if your not natty ? ( Since you can just squirt more aas in as req'd ? )


 I don't think it can hurt to add it in at all, I'm sure when I tried it, if i can recall, I had some pretty horny dreams.. but it was a while ago, if it was so good then I'd be still taking it

I have tried both pregnenlolone pills/cream and they are the same, they seem to backfill into estrogen for me, and raise my progesterone, which is never a good thing

My T levels are quite good natty ( see above ) and I'm 11 stone wet through and cant grow a beard, I really think people have an unrealistic expectation for natty levels


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The studies mentioned in the following might just be of interest:

https://www.anabolicmen.com/10-ways-lower-shbg-boost-free-testosterone/


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> The studies mentioned in the following might just be of interest:
> 
> https://www.anabolicmen.com/10-ways-lower-shbg-boost-free-testosterone/


 for me

boron - didn't feel any different

carbs - well maybe that does work, as when I lifted heavy and ate oat shake, i did have better erections

vitamin d - I have mine top of range and my free test and shbg doesn't budge, I used to take 10k IU per day

I dont take any drugs at all

fish oil - not a thing

magnesium - nope

zinc - i got my zinc to 3x over the range, oops.. still no change

alcohol - i dont drink


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

mlc2010 said:


> for me
> 
> boron - didn't feel any different
> 
> ...


 I guess it is possible that the reason your SHBG was originally so high might be a reason that the things you tried to reduce it had little effect? The linked studies at least suggest there can be an effect for some people. This isn't a subject I really know anything about BTW, I just Googled it very quickly as I was intrigued by the flax comment (as I've recently added flax to my diet).


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

one thing I forgot to mention, High levels of Estrogen could raise SHBG. The test we have in uk is not sensitive, its for women, so we may have high levels and not know about it. You didnt PCT well so its possible your Estrogen could be sky high, possible..


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> one thing I forgot to mention, High levels of Estrogen could raise SHBG. The test we have in uk is not sensitive, its for women, so we may have high levels and not know about it. You didnt PCT well so its possible your Estrogen could be sky high, possible..


 Can't afford another test right now so I'll just have to stick water ship down on and see if I can hold back the tears ?


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> Can't afford another test right now so I'll just have to stick water ship down on and see if I can hold back the tears ?


 what symptoms do you have? If you don't have any, maybe the SHBG is just the level for you


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> what symptoms do you have? If you don't have any, maybe the SHBG is just the level for you


 Tbh I'm pretty fine all around , decent energy , recovery, still build muscle ok ( morning wood sergei bubka could use for his day job. Oh.... you weren't asking about that ? :S ) . Did a cut recently using every other day fasting so some caloric restriction there ( how long does shbg stay elevated from that ? )

Like yourself I'm pretty straight edge so I'm not doing any reccies, very little alcohol , clean diet . Was having a tablespoon of flax a day so I'm deleting that and seeing what happens going forward


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> Tbh I'm pretty fine all around , decent energy , recovery, still build muscle ok ( morning wood sergei bubka could use for his day job. Oh.... you weren't asking about that ? :S ) . Did a cut recently using every other day fasting so some caloric restriction there ( how long does shbg stay elevated from that ? )
> 
> Like yourself I'm pretty straight edge so I'm not doing any reccies, very little alcohol , clean diet . Was having a tablespoon of flax a day so I'm deleting that and seeing what happens going forward


 if your in good shape, I wouldnt worry about your SHBG at all.. I see on other forums people having issue with too low SHBG, so I guess its there for a reason, your body knows best

with regards to caloric restriction, I have no idea


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> if your in good shape, I wouldnt worry about your SHBG at all.. I see on other forums people having issue with too low SHBG, so I guess its there for a reason, your body knows best
> 
> with regards to caloric restriction, I have no idea


 The only issue that is maybe a concern is that low shbg is supposed to allow atherosclerosis to manifest more easily ( got great lipid results last time tested so I'm probs ok. Perhaps a reason to not go large on aas tho? )


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> The only issue that is maybe a concern is that low shbg is supposed to allow atherosclerosis to manifest more easily ( got great lipid results last time tested so I'm probs ok. Perhaps a reason to not go large on aas tho? )


 how was the gains from ostarine? I'm 32 and no cycle yet, my first one might be superdrol, yes I know oral only cycles are crap, but a nice 3 week bulk should change my skinny frame drastically, I've researched hormones for 5 years


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> how was the gains from ostarine? I'm 32 and no cycle yet, my first one might be superdrol, yes I know oral only cycles are crap, but a nice 3 week bulk should change my skinny frame drastically, I've researched hormones for 5 years


 Hey sorry for the slow reply, was in the gym and some planned obsolescence appears to be happening to my phone.

Pretty worthwhile I thought,in the context that there's little impact on Les ballons , no ai needed , all I took for pct was daa and flour ( focused nutrition mk677 ) then three weeks later my test result were as shown . Gains were natty 2.0 , slow to build but decent improvements in reps and some strength ie I went from sets of eight in chin ups to sets of twelve then eventually 21's . The product was body conscious ostarine and I'd stand behind that as a good source.

If you are even thinking about supadrol then there will be a world of difference in gains I'd imagine . What did you research tell you about risk and reward for that one ? Lipids will be mullered for three months at least no ?


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> Hey sorry for the slow reply, was in the gym and some planned obsolescence appears to be happening to my phone.
> 
> Pretty worthwhile I thought,in the context that there's little impact on Les ballons , no ai needed , all I took for pct was daa and flour ( focused nutrition mk677 ) then three weeks later my test result were as shown . Gains were natty 2.0 , slow to build but decent improvements in reps and some strength ie I went from sets of eight in chin ups to sets of twelve then eventually 21's . The product was body conscious ostarine and I'd stand behind that as a good source.
> 
> If you are even thinking about supadrol then there will be a world of difference in gains I'd imagine . What did you research tell you about risk and reward for that one ? Lipids will be mullered for three months at least no ?


 yeah HDL tanked, but then again, some people dont have much issue and they rebound back quite quick

I think its a try for yourself oral, people report horrible lethargy and backpumps.. I'm one of them people that think " pfftt, is that all? " I guess once you try it, I will know

It can put the most size on in a short space of time, and as I have been putting off cycling for a few years I guess I want more bang from my buck


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> yeah HDL tanked, but then again, some people dont have much issue and they rebound back quite quick
> 
> I think its a try for yourself oral, people report horrible lethargy and backpumps.. I'm one of them people that think " pfftt, is that all? " I guess once you try it, I will know
> 
> It can put the most size on in a short space of time, and as I have been putting off cycling for a few years I guess I want more bang from my buck


 Don't know if it's useful or not and also no idea what's in it but Dave crossland , recommends a product called lipid stabil and despite some huge cycles his aorta hasn't shot across the gym in a bid for freedom , yet .


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> Don't know if it's useful or not and also no idea what's in it but Dave crossland , recommends a product called lipid stabil and despite some huge cycles his aorta hasn't shot across the gym in a bid for freedom , yet .


 I will give it a go. I'm more worried about shitting out my liver even with tudca


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## gazzamongo (Nov 7, 2014)

mlc2010 said:


> I will give it a go. I'm more worried about shitting out my liver even with tudca


 You going to log your training results? Before and after medichecks would be cool no?


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## mlc2010 (Apr 2, 2012)

gazzamongo said:


> You going to log your training results? Before and after medichecks would be cool no?


 I don't think I'd log on here I can see replies already from the " don't do steroids when your 11 stone " crew when they are also guilty of doing it

I'm 32 now and old enough to make decisions for myself haha and yeah well as you can see I have tons of blood work. Just hope I recover ok


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