# Keto Year Round?



## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

Would it be a good idea to constantly be on a keto diet?

My aims have recently changed, I am going to continue to bulk for the next month or two then try and cut down and stay as lean as possible year round. Is keto the best way to do this?


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Yes, but it's probably also the best way to go insane and be depressed all yr round too mate 

Ah in fairness some people take to it differently, It drops bf off me like nothing else but I can't do it for more than a month, I actually feel I'll. My body is a carb craving machine ha ha,

If your body reacts well to it I'd say it would definitely keep you ripped yr round. Gym intensity might also suffer too though?

Will you be re carbing every weekend using slin to take you back to keto?


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

never tried and never will, body needs carbs in my eyes, why any 1 would want to be on 30gram or less carbs a day is beyond me.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

i sometimes diet on 500gram of carbs with out cardio (contest prep).


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

Ts23 said:


> i sometimes diet on 500gram of carbs with out cardio (contest prep).


Anychance of a quick overview of what your diet would look like when your prepping ?


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

Don't do it OP, you will regret it.


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> Anychance of a quick overview of what your diet would look like when your prepping ?


chicken

turkey

fish

tuna

whey

brown rice

veges

sweet pot

oats

dextrose

peanut butter

nuts

oils


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## Mighty Sparrow (Apr 10, 2011)

F~ck that!!! Keto made me feel terrible, even when I got the fats right I still didnt feel great, breathe stank and had crap workouts too. Loss some fat which is great but I would not be able to keep that up all year, 1 month was plenty!!! Carbs are important to me as I cant train hard without the the energy I get from them, I try to have my biggest carb portions pre n post workout and then reduced carbs at other times through the day. This works well for me. Carb cycling might be worth a try...


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

I tried keto during the summer there, flt terrible and constantly tired, switched back to carbs and fine.


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## Avena (Jul 12, 2011)

I think it would be very detrimental for health long term...


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

If you want to stay as lean as possible year round just lower the calories down but keep the carbs in, you can maintain a nice body fat % with carbs still in the diet, only drop them when you're already low (7-8%) and want to get into shredded status (sub 6%).

Also, increase protein as calories will be lower so you'll need more protein to maintain positive nitrogen balance.



Avena said:


> I think it would be very detrimental for health long term...


Most definitely.


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## bdcc (Aug 15, 2011)

I know many people who are on ketogenic diets long term and have no complaints on energy levels. Admittedly many of them supplement appropriately to make up for gaps i.e., supplemental fibre added in.

A more sensible long term approach would be carb cycling to 'potentially' avoid possible pitfalls of ketogenic diets such as lowered testosterone levels.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I tried a keto lean-bulk about two years ago - followed a ketogenic diet but calorie excess of approx 300kcals rather than the usual deficit, and I gained a lot more fat and a lot less muscle over the three months compared to a similar kcal excess with a more balanced diet that I would usually do (going by the callipers I gained about 1lb of lean mass in three months, whereas I'd normally expect around 2.5lbs natty).

For short term fat loss at low bodyfat ketogenic diets can work, but for a gaining phase am not at all convinced. There's also clinical evidence that it might not be a good idea: where children with epilepsy are put on non calorie restricted ketogenic diets to control seizures whilst they are still growing, growth retardation of the skeletal and muscular systems is a common issue (as well as kidney stones). For obese adults looking to lose fat it can work well in many cases long-term without significant risks, but these guys aren't trying to gain muscle and are actively seeking to be in an overall catabolic state.

IMO keto is a diet that is effective for some in short term bursts for fat loss, but for long term lean mass gaining it's not a good diet at all - at least not for a natty. If you are chemically assisted it may well not be so detrimental.


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## bdcc (Aug 15, 2011)

Do you have studies on high protein/low carb diets negatively impacting the kidneys in healthy population rather existing kidney disease patients?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

bdcc said:


> Do you have studies on high protein/low carb diets negatively impacting the kidneys in healthy population rather existing kidney disease patients?


The kidney stone issues seem to be related to children on ketogenic diets as opposed to non ketogenic low carb diets. The high protein/low carb diet does have some risks also, but they aren't as strong as the ketogenic diet.

The studies on keto that show nephrolithiasis/kidney stones are on epileptics with normal renal function - the younger a ketogenic diet is inititated, the greater the likelyhood of kidney stones according to some studies, but others show no clear pattern for age. Overall the average for kidney stones in children under the age of 16 on the ketogenic diet is around 1 in 20, whereas for those on normal diets its around 1 in 17,000.

The cause of the kidney stones is not however any direct negative effect of ketosis on the kidneys, it's the mild acidosis caused by the continual elevation of keto acids in the blood. The blood needs to maintain a very tight pH balance, so to combat the continual acidity there is up-regulation of osteoclast activity, which causes a faster turnover of bone calcium. The calcium buffers the elevated acidity in the blood, and then the salts that form are excreted via the kidney. This process happens on all diets, but because it is occurring in to an elevated degree under long term ketosis, the risk of forming kidney stones becomes increased.

This can be a similar risk on high protein low carb diets (carbohydrate foods are the main source of alkaline minerals and sodium bicarbonate to buffer acidity), but this can be offset by inculding a high level of low-ish carb non starchy veg... basically a paleo type low carb diet with lots of greens and soem fruit, but not much starchy carb intake.

Is important to note though that high protein diets combined with what is considered moderate carb intake (between 30-40% carbs) seems ok for renal heath in those who weight train, provided decent levels of minerals are taken in.

Study on bodybuilders following high protein diets - http://www.jissn.com/content/8/1/10

Study on low carb/high protein diets and kidney stones in obese individuals - http://www.vivalis.si/literatura/2a02.pdf

Studies on keto diets and kidney stones in epileptics - http://www.jurology.com/article/S0022-5347(05)67400-9/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17109786

http://www.springerlink.com/content/aqq3rrm0f8clhgrf/


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## bdcc (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks for differentiation. My initial post was because I wasn't sure if you were saying high protein diets are linked to kidney dysfunction or ketogenic diets were. As far as I know high protein diets on their own have no studies in healthy individuals.


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## Chris new (Nov 29, 2010)

Ts23 said:


> chicken
> 
> turkey
> 
> ...


do you eat any fruit at all?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

bdcc said:


> Thanks for differentiation. My initial post was because I wasn't sure if you were saying high protein diets are linked to kidney dysfunction or ketogenic diets were. As far as I know high protein diets on their own have no studies in healthy individuals.


That's the problem with most dietary studies mate - very few are actually conducted on healthy individuals with good exercising patterns. Is often tempting to take a study on obese pre diabetic people (for example) and apply it to a lean bodybuilder looking to cut from 12% b/fat to say 6%, and while there is usually a degree of stuff that stands true in both cases, it's not always the case that you can directly say everything is true for both groups.

In respect of any diet that is restrictive of any one macro, my own view is to always use supplements to beef up what is missing - in low veg diets be sure to get fibre and vits and minerals, in low fat diets be sure to supplement fatty acids, in low protein diets (doubt there are many folks on here doing this but still worth a mention), supplement with aminos/proteins around exercise at the very least etc etc. This is the best way to offset any potential issues IMO.


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## lxm (Jul 26, 2011)

I done 4 months on keto/low carb and lost 2.5 stone... Just had a month break there and luckily not put on any weight! - Back onto keto now... day 2.5 and im in hell... Full keto side effects, feeling unwell, 0 appitite.. I mean i cant even stomach a can of tuna!

Im ditching the keto... No way im going back to it! Just to add to the above, 4 months were in and out of feeling like crap! no matter how much good fat you topped up the diet with... there were nasty mood swings and very low sex drive!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Individual experiences do vary widely with ketogenic and low carb diets, and more recently there have been some genes identified which explain the individual differences. Keto is an excellent diet for some people but not for everyone. The general consensus though from most studies and observations is that the standard western diet is too high in junky processed carbs and sugars for good health, and getting rid of these, even if not significantly reducing carbs overall, is usually a step to wards better glucose and insulin management to help the fat loss process. Calories count most overall though, and are more important for body fat management than any fiddling with macros.


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