# Stronglifts 5x5



## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

What is your personal experiences of strong lifts? How much did your lifts increase from the start of the program.

i am going to run it for 6 months with dips and pull ups/chins as accessory work after each session. Looking for mass and to increase strength as I go.


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## big shrek (Aug 30, 2011)

r1234 said:


> What is your personal experiences of strong lifts? How much did your lifts increase from the start of the program.
> 
> i am going to run it for 6 months with dips and pull ups/chins as accessory work after each session. Looking for mass and to increase strength as I go.


 each person will have different results mate

i ran it from feb this year until last week and now im trying a 531 method

it worked wonders for my squat/deadlift, the only reason ive changed is due to slow progress on my overhead pressing but thats me, im very tall with very long arms so that could be a reason aswell.

run it for 3 months then try your 1 rep maxes again, eat s**t-loads aswell


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## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

What's people input of cardio on strong lifts? Sscv on rest days?

@Quackerz you know your mass/strength programs any input or adjustments you'd recommend?


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Expect to make great improvements.

It's foolproof.


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## Owl man (Apr 18, 2016)

It's fantastic. See results week in week out. I've done my back in at the moment but will be back on at soon as .


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> What's people input of cardio on strong lifts? Sscv on rest days?
> 
> @Quackerz you know your mass/strength programs any input or adjustments you'd recommend?


 Stronglifts is a great program and foolproof if followed correctly.

Personally I do around an hours cardio a day on my bike roughly from commuting to work and the gym. Never found any issues.

If you do not do cardio regularly I would start off with light jogging on off days if you think you need it. Do not use it as a tool to lose weight though. If you increase cardio you increase calories or you strength is going to plummet. Take that in mind and eat accordingly.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Prince Adam said:


> Expect to make great improvements.
> 
> It's foolproof.


 Said the exact same thing.


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## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

Excellent thanks for the input, looking forward to some good size and strength gains!

How would you work in a lagging body part? For example chest? Mine is the victim of poor form for the first few years training.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> Excellent thanks for the input, looking forward to some good size and strength gains!
> 
> How would you work in a lagging body part? For example chest? Mine is the victim of poor form for the first few years training.


 Do Bench on Monday and Friday and overhead press on Wednesday instead of rotating the lifts.

That and eat the right foods.


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## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Stick to it and reap the rewards mate. The main part is, stick to it. It will seem easy in the beginning but trust me it get's hard and your central nervous system will take a masive battering as a result. Excellent routine.

All my lifts in the beginning were below bodyweight of around 70kg (or just above)

In the end:

Squat 5x5: 137.5 KG

Bench 5x5: 92.5KG

Overhead press 5x5: 60kg

Deadlift 1x5: 140KG

And eat a lot mate, you'll need it. Once you've maxed out on 5x5 follow the guide for switching to 3x5.


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## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> Stick to it and reap the rewards mate. The main part is, stick to it. It will seem easy in the beginning but trust me it get's hard and your central nervous system will take a masive battering as a result. Excellent routine.
> 
> All my lifts in the beginning were below bodyweight of around 70kg (or just above)
> 
> ...


 Excellent progress with those lifts mate, I'd be happy to hit those numbers myself!


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## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

r1234 said:


> Excellent progress with those lifts mate, I'd be happy to hit those numbers myself!


 Stick at it mate they will come. I must admit, sticking at it is the hardest part. When it get's heavy your nervous system does take a battering


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

I think it's a garbage programme personally, but to each their own.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Fina said:


> I think it's a garbage programme personally, but to each their own.


 Why did you not like it specifically? I have never done it myself but I think the layout is perfect IMO. Just curious.


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

Quackerz said:


> Why did you not like it specifically? I have never done it myself but I think the layout is perfect IMO. Just curious.


 Because I think the whole system is flawed. You start light, where you're not really pushing youself, but within a very short time you're at numbers that are too hard to do so you plateau. Also, 5 sets is very mentally challenging once you get to a certain level, and again can be too hard causing you to stop progress.

I just think this plan is not very good, its okay for beginners for a while, but other than that its personally not something I'd recommend.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Fina said:


> Because I think the whole system is flawed. You start light, where you're not really pushing youself, but within a very short time you're at numbers that are too hard to do so you plateau. Also, 5 sets is very mentally challenging once you get to a certain level, and again can be too hard causing you to stop progress.
> 
> I just think this plan is not very good, *its okay for beginners for a while*, but other than that its personally not something I'd recommend.


 That's why it's a beginners program........ a beginner would need to start off light also. If someone who is trained were to do this program it would be silly but for teaching the basics lifts and how to push yourself mentally for beginners I find it a very good layout. I guess everyone has their opinion though.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Fina said:


> Because I think the whole system is flawed. You start light, where you're not really pushing youself, but within a very short time you're at numbers that are too hard to do so you plateau. Also, 5 sets is very mentally challenging once you get to a certain level, and again can be too hard causing you to stop progress.
> 
> I just think this plan is not very good, its okay for beginners for a while, but other than that its personally not something I'd recommend.


 It's a beginners routine.

You start light to learn the techniques and avoid all sorts of injuries (muscular & tendons)

Yes 5 sets is daunting! but you drop to 3 sets eventually.

It's way better than a noob going straight into a muscle magazine body split routine.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Prince Adam said:


> It's a beginners routine.
> 
> You start light to learn the techniques and avoid all sorts of injuries (muscular & tendons)
> 
> ...


 x2


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

And a beginner will hit a wall very quickly with this plan


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Fina said:


> And a beginner will hit a wall very quickly with this plan


 That is why it has a progression outlined for when you stall? Have you read the actual program? Granted it is not even his and the author is a t**t but there is a whole progression of about 3 or 4 blocks for when you stall, it does not constantly remain the same throughout. It also explains how to progress onto other programs afterwards. I do not see your point?


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

Can anyone post me a link to the programme please??

Ive been training on and off for about 4 years now and Ive never really followed a set programme. Just went in the gym and lifted some weights. Done some heavy bag work, jogging, swimming.

Im more interested in strength training than body building. I just know putting some decent size on is an added almost side effect of making massive strength gains.

@Quackerz I know you're a good guy and always looking out for people and to help them. Cheers old buddy, old pal!!


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

sammclean23 said:


> Stick to it and reap the rewards mate. The main part is, stick to it. It will seem easy in the beginning but trust me it get's hard and your central nervous system will take a masive battering as a result. Excellent routine.
> 
> All my lifts in the beginning were below bodyweight of around 70kg (or just above)
> 
> ...


 Any idea what your 1 rep maxes for before and after pal?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Donny dog said:


> Can anyone post me a link to the programme please??
> 
> Ive been training on and off for about 4 years now and Ive never really followed a set programme. Just went in the gym and lifted some weights. Done some heavy bag work, jogging, swimming.
> 
> ...


 Alternate workouts on a Mon/Wed/Fri rota and perform 5 sets of 5 starting with an easy weight, adding 2.5kg to each lift the next time you perform it even for squats, for deadlifts add 5kg, when you stall 3 times in a row reset the weight by 10% and repeat but only for that lift. When you cannot progress anymore move onto 3 sets of 5 for a month or two, then 3 sets of 3, then move onto Madcows 5 X 5 and rinse that for as long as you can. It's slightly different to the actual progression but that is how I would do it. Add in some rear delt work.

Workout 1

Squat

Bench

Barbell Row

Workout 2

Squat

Overhead Press

Deadlift


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Alternate workouts on a Mon/Wed/Fri rota and perform 5 sets of 5 starting with an easy weight, adding 2.5kg to each lift the next time you perform it even for squats, for deadlifts add 5kg, when you stall 3 times in a row reset the weight by 10% and repeat but only for that lift. When you cannot progress anymore move onto 3 sets of 5 for a month or two, then 3 sets of 3, then move onto Madcows 5 X 5 and rinse that for as long as you can. It's slightly different to the actual progression but that is how I would do it. Add in some rear delt work.
> 
> Workout 1
> 
> ...


 You sir, are a gentleman!!

Is it ok to chuck in some bag work/jogging on non lifting days or is it strictly rest?

What about some isolation work after the main 5x5's also?? Or is it just simply in the gym, do your 5x5 lifts then out again?

I take it a warm up is still essential too?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Donny dog said:


> You sir, are a gentleman!!
> 
> Is it ok to chuck in some bag work/jogging on non lifting days or is it strictly rest?
> 
> ...


 Yes a warm up is always essential. I take around 25 mins doing mobility work before I eve touch a bar. Mobility is king. Stretch afterwards. If you are going to jog or do bag work make it light on off days and adjust your kcal to compensate for the extra exercise, you have to make sure you are constantly in a surplus, this program will take a lot out of you, 300-500kcal above maintenance is what I would recommend.

Leave the isolation work to curls and triceps on fridays and that's it. Do rear delts every session.


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

Quackerz said:


> That is why it has a progression outlined for when you stall? Have you read the actual program? Granted it is not even his and the author is a t**t but there is a whole progression of about 3 or 4 blocks for when you stall, it does not constantly remain the same throughout. It also explains how to progress onto other programs afterwards. I do not see your point?


 Yes I have read it and tried it, and I just don't think it's particularly great. As with all things training related however, we all have our ways and opinions, it's just not for me.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Fina said:


> Yes I have read it and tried it, and I just don't think it's particularly great. As with all things training related however, we all have our ways and opinions, it's just not for me.


 Well spoken I guess, each to their own.


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Yes a warm up is always essential. I take around 25 mins doing mobility work before I eve touch a bar. Mobility is king. Stretch afterwards. If you are going to jog or do bag work make it light on off days and adjust your kcal to compensate for the extra exercise, you have to make sure you are constantly in a surplus, this program will take a lot out of you, 300-500kcal above maintenance is what I would recommend.
> 
> Leave the isolation work to curls and triceps on fridays and that's it. Do rear delts every session.


 Brilliant mate.

One last one for now. And I know it's not an exact science but roughly how many Cals would you recommend for an 85kg man of 35 to be between 300-500 maintenance?

Ball parkish figure will do mate.

Ive no issue eating clean but one thing I've never bothered with is figuring out my individual macros or even how many kcal I should be chowing down each day.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Donny dog said:


> Brilliant mate.
> 
> One last one for now. And I know it's not an exact science but roughly how many Cals would you recommend for an 85kg man of 35 to be between 300-500 maintenance?
> 
> ...


 Eat 3500 plus, whatever you want, if you gain too much fat drop a bit, if you don't gain up it. Simple. Don't worry about clean eating either, if you want the weights to go up you have to accept a bit of BF increase, it's the nature of the game with this program, you NEED the food. Just get your protein in, your not body sculpting here. lol


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Eat 3500 plus, whatever you want, if you gain too much fat drop a bit, if you don't gain up it. Simple. Don't worry about clean eating either, if you want the weights to go up you have to accept a bit of BF increase, it's the nature of the game with this program, you NEED the food. Just get your protein in, your not body sculpting here. lol


 Best man on the forum right here!! X


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Donny dog said:


> Best man on the forum right here!! X


 No worries mate, just make sure your form is on point, squat to depth etc.

Should do fine as long as you eat properly. :thumbup1:


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> No worries mate, just make sure your form is on point, squat to depth etc.
> 
> Should do fine as long as you eat properly. :thumbup1:


 Thanks once again mate.

i'll keep you posted.


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## alex9837 (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm just starting to do 4x5 so not quite the same. But just at the start of my workout. Squat. Dead.bench.

I got my strength up starting light then working up in triples doubles and singles. Didn't gain no size though just strength. And quite a bit. Below is 2 years training

So 1rm sit's at

Squat 182.5

Dead 250

Bench 155

I want the size now though so doing 4x5 for the main compound lifts on separate days followed by isolation exercises for building muscle. So just trying to find a balance that works for me.

I followed mad cows 5x5 a while back but found it soul destroying squatting 3 or 4 times a week.

I'm no expert in all this though just giving my 2 cents worth


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

alex9837 said:


> I'm just starting to do 4x5 so not quite the same. But just at the start of my workout. Squat. Dead.bench.
> 
> I got my strength up starting light then working up in triples doubles and singles. Didn't gain no size though just strength. And quite a bit. Below is 2 years training
> 
> ...


 Some people do better off training lifts on separate days and I don't doubt your approach has worked. The whole point of 5 X 5 is the fact it sits in the middle of strength and hypertrophy, with the added frequency as a general strength and bulking program it's great TBH. Some people do find squatting 3X a week a bit daunting though, it's usually a food issue jf you don't recover and remain the same weight.

There are several studies on increased volume having more of a benefit to hypertrophy, it's the reason it's recommended so much, that and it is also very good for developing neural patterns.

Any program can work, but for someone starting out with it there is defiantly a more optimal approach than once per week training.


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## alex9837 (Mar 23, 2015)

@Quackerz thanks for that .I totally agree with everything you have said above. 5x5 is the best way. I was merely just sharing what I had done to get my owe strength up. I was recovering doing 5x5 and strength was flying up. I just simply didn't enjoy working out this way at all found it harder to motivate myself.

My experiment with myself now is upper body Monday an Thursday with 4x5 deads and bench on both days. Followed by isolations.

Lower body Tuesday and Friday with 5x5 squats followed by isolations.

I enjoy the balance of the big strength lifts and the pump from all the isolation work.

I seem to be gaining size quite quickly.and strength going up steady. Though I've only just begun. Probs a million and one better ways to skin my cat. I'm just trying this to see how my body responds. Looking for good strengthgains and some quality muscle growth. It's ok deadlifting 250k...I would kinda like to look like I do aswell haha


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## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

I like the simplicity of strong lifts, very easy to follow. Go in knowing what you need to do and in and out in a reasonable time. Hunger has shot up since I've started but this is a good thing.

what to you guys recommend as follow on from strong lifts? - I am no where near ready for it but would like to start reading up and plan ahead.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

alex9837 said:


> @Quackerz thanks for that .I totally agree with everything you have said above. 5x5 is the best way. I was merely just sharing what I had done to get my owe strength up. I was recovering doing 5x5 and strength was flying up. I just simply didn't enjoy working out this way at all found it harder to motivate myself.
> 
> My experiment with myself now is upper body Monday an Thursday with 4x5 deads and bench on both days. Followed by isolations.
> 
> ...


 Your deadlift is better than mine, I just read a lot........

If I were you I would switch the squat with the deadlift on your opposite days, you should get more out of it IMO. Turns it into more of a push/pull movement patter split. You taking AAS? How do you plan to progress from here?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> I like the simplicity of strong lifts, very easy to follow. Go in knowing what you need to do and in and out in a reasonable time. Hunger has shot up since I've started but this is a good thing.
> 
> what to you guys recommend as follow on from strong lifts? - I am no where near ready for it but would like to start reading up and plan ahead.


 If you are a beginner jump into it. Get a PT to teach you the lifts, all you need, then just follow the program, just make sure to be strict with the exercises. There is a lot of useful information on the site about exercise form.


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## alex9837 (Mar 23, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Your deadlift is better than mine, I just read a lot........
> 
> If I were you I would switch the squat with the deadlift on your opposite days, you should get more out of it IMO. Turns it into more of a push/pull movement patter split. You taking AAS? How do you plan to progress from here?


 I will try switching definitely. I will let this training cycle run its course then when I switch things round a bit will try the squat and dead the other way round. Yeah cycle tren and mast with a base.oh and hgh...just ordered mod grf &ghrp 2 to run as well see what that does for me. I would like to compete at regional powerlifting meet next spring with a view of qualifying for a national. Going of this year's results a 600 kg plus total would give me a good chance to do that?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

alex9837 said:


> I will try switching definitely. I will let this training cycle run its course then when I switch things round a bit will try the squat and dead the other way round. Yeah cycle tren and mast with a base.oh and hgh...just ordered mod grf &ghrp 2 to run as well see what that does for me. I would like to compete at regional powerlifting meet next spring with a view of qualifying for a national. Going of this year's results a 600 kg plus total would give me a good chance to do that?


 How much do you weight?


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## alex9837 (Mar 23, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> How much do you weight?


 100kg....gotta stay under 110kg. ..cos those boys above that weight are next level strong...don't think they'd have me as a spotter haha


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

alex9837 said:


> 100kg....gotta stay under 110kg. ..cos those boys above that weight are next level strong...don't think they'd have me as a spotter haha


 600 total may give you a chance, BPU is a good fed and was the one I was going to compete in. I would sign up for that and check out the qualifying numbers for last year. You have some decent lifts mate.

I assume you are planning on water loading by thew sounds of it?


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## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

Quackerz said:


> If you are a beginner jump into it. Get a PT to teach you the lifts, all you need, then just follow the program, just make sure to be strict with the exercises. There is a lot of useful information on the site about exercise form.


 Sorry maybe I never made it clear, was looking at suggestions of which program to follow once I stall on strong lifts. I'm not near stalling but i like to research and have a plan in mind


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> Sorry maybe I never made it clear, was looking at suggestions of which program to follow once I stall on strong lifts. I'm not near stalling but i like to research and have a plan in mind


 I posted this earlier in the thread, it would be the way I would progress on it:

Alternate workouts on a Mon/Wed/Fri rota and perform 5 sets of 5 starting with an easy weight, adding 2.5kg to each lift the next time you perform it even for squats, for deadlifts add 5kg, when you stall 3 times in a row reset the weight by 10% and repeat but only for that lift. When you cannot progress anymore move onto 3 sets of 5 for a month or two, then 3 sets of 3, then move onto Madcows 5 X 5 and rinse that for as long as you can. It's slightly different to the actual progression but that is how I would do it. Add in some rear delt work every session for 2 X 20.

Workout 1

Squat

Bench

Barbell Row

Workout 2

Squat

Overhead Press

Deadlift


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> Sorry maybe I never made it clear, was looking at suggestions of which program to follow once I stall on strong lifts. I'm not near stalling but i like to research and have a plan in mind


 That should see you right for a year.


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## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

Quackerz said:


> I posted this earlier in the thread, it would be the way I would progress on it:
> 
> Alternate workouts on a Mon/Wed/Fri rota and perform 5 sets of 5 starting with an easy weight, adding 2.5kg to each lift the next time you perform it even for squats, for deadlifts add 5kg, when you stall 3 times in a row reset the weight by 10% and repeat but only for that lift. When you cannot progress anymore move onto 3 sets of 5 for a month or two, then 3 sets of 3, then move onto Madcows 5 X 5 and rinse that for as long as you can. It's slightly different to the actual progression but that is how I would do it. Add in some rear delt work every session for 2 X 20.
> 
> ...


 Excellent, plenty food and that will hopefully see some serious strength and size increase. Thanks again!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> Sorry maybe I never made it clear, was looking at suggestions of which program to follow once I stall on strong lifts. I'm not near stalling but i like to research and have a plan in mind


 No problem mate.


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## alex9837 (Mar 23, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> 600 total may give you a chance, BPU is a good fed and was the one I was going to compete in. I would sign up for that and check out the qualifying numbers for last year. You have some decent lifts mate.
> 
> I assume you are planning on water loading by thew sounds of it?


 thanks. well I'm sat at 587.50 right now so hope get up to 620-650 in time for northern qualifier. just need to be under 100kg o we shall see this years were in Scunthorpe on feb 7th that's what I'm going offwhich is bpu. some test there . what weight class and area did you what to compete in? also I don't know what water loading is. I will look it up whats it for?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

r1234 said:


> Sorry maybe I never made it clear, was looking at suggestions of which program to follow once I stall on strong lifts. I'm not near stalling but i like to research and have a plan in mind


 look it up, you can cut around 10% in water to make weight for a lower class then re hydrate straight afterwards. I was looking to compete in the 90's


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## alex9837 (Mar 23, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> look it up, you can cut around 10% in water to make weight for a lower class then re hydrate straight afterwards. I was looking to compete in the 90's


 i've looked it up and it looks promising.....however i weighed in at 111kg this morning...and thats at the start of my current blast so think being sub 100kg next feb may be a bit out of my reach..good luck in the 90's mate :thumbup1:


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

alex9837 said:


> i've looked it up and it looks promising.....however i weighed in at 111kg this morning...and thats at the start of my current blast so think being sub 100kg next feb may be a bit out of my reach..good luck in the 90's mate :thumbup1:


 Can't compete due to injury unfortunately. But same goes mate. :thumb


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## MrBishi (Mar 10, 2016)

How would you adjust this routine if you was on a testosterone cycle?

What about if you was also cutting and eating slightly below maintenance (on cycle)?

Surely you couldn't really get away with doing squats 5 or 6 days a week


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

MrBishi said:


> How would you adjust this routine if you was on a testosterone cycle?
> 
> What about if you was also cutting and eating slightly below maintenance (on cycle)?
> 
> Surely you couldn't really get away with doing squats 5 or 6 days a week


 Stick to the program, you will simply stall less providing you are eating enough. You do not need to increase the volume or add exercises.

If you want to cut choose a different program, you will destroy yourself on this in a deficit.


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## MrBishi (Mar 10, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> Stick to the program, you will simply stall less providing you are eating enough. You do not need to increase the volume or add exercises.
> 
> If you want to cut choose a different program, you will destroy yourself on this in a deficit.


 What routine would you recommend?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

MrBishi said:


> What routine would you recommend?


 Focus on maintaining strength, program it how you want and just use the same weights for the main lifts, works better in the 6-10 range to offset neural fatigue. Other than that just diet. If you are looking for a 'fuller' look add in some D-Bol or anadrol. You will lose strength, something you have to deal with.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

Good thread this, @Quackerz seems to be the Oracle!!

I'm thinking of going back to Stronglifts after initially doing it a couple of years ago. I'm looking to get stronger and leaner as body-fat is currently around 20%. Would this routine be suggested if I am looking to reduce body-fat? I'm guessing the regular compound exercises are bound to get my body burning up some calories?!

I'm also unsure what sort of starting weight is ideal? I started on 37.5kg squat, 35kg bench and 30kg row last week and to be honest it felt like a joke. Threw in some EZ curls for isolation at the end of the session.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

Literally just walked out the gym after doing another session of the Stronglifts and almost feel angry at myself.

I barely even broke sweat, is this normal? Should my starting weights be much bigger?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

gazd83 said:


> Literally just walked out the gym after doing another session of the Stronglifts and almost feel angry at myself.
> 
> I barely even broke sweat, is this normal? Should my starting weights be much bigger?


 If you are already well trained and have already developed neural efficiency in the lifts then start at at a weight that is a bit more challenging IMO.

You should either work on strength or losing weight though, pick a goal for a few months and stick with it, trying to do both is counter productive, despite what that Belgium t**t will say on his website.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> If you are already well trained and have already developed neural efficiency in the lifts then start at at a weight that is a bit more challenging IMO.
> 
> You should either work on strength or losing weight though, pick a goal for a few months and stick with it, trying to do both is counter productive, despite what that Belgium t**t will say on his website.


 What sort of routine would you say is better for getting the BF down? GVT combined with HIIT?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

gazd83 said:


> What sort of routine would you say is better for getting the BF down? GVT combined with HIIT?


 Same program as what you are doing, just work on maintaining strength and drop kcal and add in cardio, just don't try to increase poundages or it will bury you, I prefer HIIT personally.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> Same program as what you are doing, just work on maintaining strength and drop kcal and add in cardio, just don't try to increase poundages or it will bury you, I prefer HIIT personally.


 Ok, so I upped the weights on the routine today and it definitely felt like a more decent workout. I also started sets 1&2 on the Squats and Military Press on a lower weight before completing 3 sets at the higher weight.

Squats 5x50kg: 5x60kg, 5x80kg, 5x80kg, 5x80kg

Military Press: 5x25kg, 5x30kg, 5x32.5kg, 5x32.5kg, 5x32.5kg

Deadlift: 5x60kg, 5x80kg, 5x80kg

EZ curls: 5x20kg, 5x20kg, 5x20kg

Ended with 3 sets of knee raises for some more ab work.

I'll alternate this with the workout A, throwing in Dips and more knee raises on that workout.

On 'days off' i'll get some cardio in, but i'm concerned that I might end up overdoing the legs so can you think of any CV work or drills that are easier on legs?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

gazd83 said:


> Ok, so I upped the weights on the routine today and it definitely felt like a more decent workout. I also started sets 1&2 on the Squats and Military Press on a lower weight before completing 3 sets at the higher weight.
> 
> Squats 5x50kg: 5x60kg, 5x80kg, 5x80kg, 5x80kg
> 
> ...


 Personally I would do your strength training in the morning and run on the same day in the afternoon and then have a full day off, but light jogging never hurt anyone, the body adapts if you can only fit it in on the off days.

As for how many sets 3 X 5 should work fine with ramping up the first two sets if you feel better doing it. There is no reason for it not to.

I would not add too many accessories though, if you do then do them at the end of Fridays training session, you will recover better this way.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> Personally I would do your strength training in the morning and run on the same day in the afternoon and then have a full day off, but light jogging never hurt anyone, the body adapts if you can only fit it in on the off days.
> 
> As for how many sets 3 X 5 should work fine with ramping up the first two sets if you feel better doing it. There is no reason for it not to.
> 
> I would not add too many accessories though, if you do then do them at the end of Fridays training session, you will recover better this way.


 Appreciate the tips.

Struggle to get both AM and PM sessions so will have to do CV on off days.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

gazd83 said:


> What sort of routine would you say is better for getting the BF down?


 If losing body fat is your priority then you should be focusing on your diet to achieve this - specifically by eating fewer calories. The training you choose will primarily be for preserving muscle, and cardio can help a bit. Diet is king though.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

X3 good sessions on this routine this week. Unfortunately a lack of CV though.

Squatting 80kg still, and as much as I want to lift more I'm not confident with the squat so it'll be slow progression. Deadlift up to 90kg and relatively easy so looking forward to progressing this. Bench press seems too low at 60kg so needs upping but trying to stick to steady progression.

I realise that none of you may actually care but somehow writing these posts helps me stick to my plan.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

gazd83 said:


> On 'days off' i'll get some cardio in, but i'm concerned that I might end up overdoing the legs so can you think of any CV work or drills that are easier on legs?


 There is evidence that cycling is better than running in terms of not interfering with weight training progress*. It can't be definitely said why, but the suggestions are because cycling in non-impact, and that cycling is more biomechanically similar to exercises like squats that running (force generated with knee bent more). From the non-impact point of view swimming is another alternative to running to consider. This is not to say that huge numbers of people haven't made both size and strength gains whilst using running for cardio!



gazd83 said:


> I realise that none of you may actually care but somehow writing these posts helps me stick to my plan.


 Lot's of people find posting in a journal on here helps motivate them, why not start one?

*See here for source.


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## gazd83 (Aug 8, 2016)

Squatting 3x a week is playing havoc with my knees. They're really feeling it at the mo. I'm guessing as they're such a major part of this routine there's no substitute for them?


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## Magsimus (Aug 14, 2014)

Tried this programme a year or so ago. I was at my strongest then as on high tren, moderate test. However, I'll admit I didn't stick to it as after a week or two I found I was pooped for the rest of the workout after squatting (I should add that's my weakest compound lift).

I know this is a beginner's programme and that when you're shifting heavier poundages it can become impractical, but is there any way an experienced lifter can give this a go without burning out so early on (although I appreciate I might just be unfit/a massive fanny)? Just started a 12-weeker of test and NPP so wouldn't mind getting my strength up. However, I should add I'm hoping to compete again next year so bodybuilding is the goal rather than strength per se.

Cheers.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Magsimus said:


> Tried this programme a year or so ago. I was at my strongest then as on high tren, moderate test. However, I'll admit I didn't stick to it as after a week or two I found I was pooped for the rest of the workout after squatting (I should add that's my weakest compound lift).
> 
> I know this is a beginner's programme and that when you're shifting heavier poundages it can become impractical, but is there any way an experienced lifter can give this a go without burning out so early on (although I appreciate I might just be unfit/a massive fanny)? Just started a 12-weeker of test and NPP so wouldn't mind getting my strength up. However, I should add I'm hoping to compete again next year so bodybuilding is the goal rather than strength per se.
> 
> Cheers.


 What are your lifts like?


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## Magsimus (Aug 14, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> What are your lifts like?


 Don't know as not really done them for years.

But, if I was to get under a bench today the best I could get would probably be a shaky 160kg for 1 or 2 and I'd probably require a spotter with the biggest traps in the gym. The other night's deadlifts of 200kg for 6 reps nearly killed me (not joking, I had to sit down for about 5 minutes I was so fooked). Squat is non-existent as just about to start doing those again as I've been a leg-press guy (I know) for the last however many years. But if I had to give it a shot I could probably get under the bar and shoddily push up three plates for a few reps before my spine would implode.

To be honest, I became one of those 'I'm a bodybuilder, I have to stimulate not anhialate' guys who stopped doing the heavy compounds that built my frame in the first place. Instead, I opted for exercises that were more comfortable (easier in other words) or required me to sit down (again, shout out to the leg press). I got too lazy basically and subsequently my lifts diminished.

Going back to when I tried the programme (and I say 'tried' loosely) 2-3 years ago I was probably benching 160-180kg, Deadlifting 260kg and squatting 180kg (all 3-4 reps I should add, I wasn't smashing out 10+). Not the sort of numbers to make powerlifters lose sleep, but they were big enough numbers for me and lifts I probably won't reach again, regardless of drugs (I'm 35 next year).

As I've not done the big three lifts for yonks, and am just getting on a new cycle, I was debating giving this programme a whirl while I'm weaker to try and get my lifts up. Does that sort of make sense?

Cheers.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Magsimus said:


> Don't know as not really done them for years.
> 
> But, if I was to get under a bench today the best I could get would probably be a shaky 160kg for 1 or 2 and I'd probably require a spotter with the biggest traps in the gym. The other night's deadlifts of 200kg for 6 reps nearly killed me (not joking, I had to sit down for about 5 minutes I was so fooked). Squat is non-existent as just about to start doing those again I've been a keen leg-press fan (I know) for the last however many years. But if I had to give it a shot I could probably get under the bar and shoddily push up three plates for a few reps before my spine would implode.
> 
> ...


 It's too much to see progress in your Bench, your Deadlift would see small improvements. The only thing that would benefit is your squat. Run the Madcows template instead and simply Increase your Squat on the Monday and the Friday for 3 sets of 5. This would work much better IMO.


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## Magsimus (Aug 14, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> It's too much to see progress in your Bench, your Deadlift would see small improvements. The only thing that would benefit is your squat. Run the Madcows template instead and simply Increase your Squat on the Monday and the Friday for 3 sets of 5. This would work much better IMO.


 Cheers dude, will check out Madcow's approach.


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