# IBE Epistane advice



## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

*IBE Epistane 90 Capsules**<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>*

About myself:

36 years old and weigh in at 14 stone - been training a good number of years.

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Diet is good, could be improved and seeking advice on this.

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Have only run 3-AD before (early this year) and got great gains, so this is a step up.

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Workout 4-5 times a week - workout from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:time Hour="19" Minute="0">7 - 8.30pm</st1:time> (cannot change due to work apart from Saturday)

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Mon: Chest/Triceps

Tue: Legs

Wed: Deadlifts (Back)/Shoulders

Thu: Arms

Sat: Back/Biceps

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Lagging a bit on Back and Biceps (the reason for twice a week at the moment)

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Considering running IBE Epistane (10mg per tablet) at:

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Week <st1:time Hour="1" Minute="10">1: 10</st1:time>mg (1 tablet)

Week <st1:time Hour="2" Minute="20">2: 20</st1:time>mg (2 tablet)

Week <st1:time Hour="3" Minute="30">3: 30</st1:time>mg (3 tablet)

Week <st1:time Hour="4" Minute="40">4: 40</st1:time>mg (4 tablet)

Week <st1:time Hour="5" Minute="40">5: 40</st1:time>mg (4 tablet)

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For PCT was going to use Nolva or Comid or both?

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Questions:

When taking Epistane do I spread the dosage out during the day?

Is there anything else I should take when using Epistane?

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What dosage for PCT (have done searching but no concrete results)?

Certain people recommend using Lean FX during PCT?

I am certain I have overlooked things and people may recommend something different than Epistane (some people may say take nothing) - so help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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## firestorm (Feb 11, 2009)

Personally I would stick to 30mg throughout, and would also consider running it for 6 weeks. Epistane, like most OTS steroids, typically take 7-10 days for the effects to be noticed primarily in strength gain. Running 10mg for the first week would be pointless; by the time it would be kicking in you will have already upped the dose meaning you wouldn't know how 10mg affected you.

Two Serm's is overkill, one or the other. As for doses, yes the half-life is something like 4-6 hours (forget the exact amount) so keep the doses spread out evenly. I don't personally believe on-cycle ancilleries are required but many people run milk thistle; it's cheap so if you're worried you could always run some.

LeanFX during PCT isn't necessary. Some people like to run cortisol blockers, other people will argue they do squat. So it's completely your choice.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

firestorm said:


> Personally I would stick to 30mg throughout, and would also consider running it for 6 weeks. Epistane, like most OTS steroids, typically take 7-10 days for the effects to be noticed primarily in strength gain. Running 10mg for the first week would be pointless; by the time it would be kicking in you will have already upped the dose meaning you wouldn't know how 10mg affected you.
> 
> Two Serm's is overkill, one or the other. As for doses, yes the half-life is something like 4-6 hours (forget the exact amount) so keep the doses spread out evenly. I don't personally believe on-cycle ancilleries are required but many people run milk thistle; it's cheap so if you're worried you could always run some.
> 
> LeanFX during PCT isn't necessary. Some people like to run cortisol blockers, other people will argue they do squat. So it's completely your choice.


Thanks for the feedback on dosage of Epistane - should I take them at 3 intervals during the day?

Depending on what PCT to run, how much should I take (in mg)?

I have read that clomid can be worse than nolva - how true, I don't know.

Thanks again.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Could anyone help on the above dosage?


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## 71081 (Apr 23, 2009)

I had epistane about 18 months ago, i took 2 spread out over a day (one with brekfast, one with tea) for the first week, then onto 3 tablets til I finished them. I had great results, both strength and mass were up, not a huge amount but enough so everyone could tell. I was very pleased. A friend who is a nutritionalist, told me taking these for two longs will put stress on my liver, and i wont get these results everytime.

I dont remember doing any post cycle therapy on these.


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## 71081 (Apr 23, 2009)

Just remembered, when i was on three a day, i had one pre training (about an hour before) and the final one after training with my shake. I was training at 730pm everyday.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

71081 said:


> I had epistane about 18 months ago, i took 2 spread out over a day (one with brekfast, one with tea) for the first week, then onto 3 tablets til I finished them. I had great results, both strength and mass were up, not a huge amount but enough so everyone could tell. I was very pleased. A friend who is a nutritionalist, told me taking these for two longs will put stress on my liver, and i wont get these results everytime.
> 
> I dont remember doing any post cycle therapy on these.


Thanks for the feedback, if you take most things to long the results will not be the same, that is why people look for stronger stuff.

No PCT, it is a steriod so hope your OK.


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## firestorm (Feb 11, 2009)

Sorry mate.

Yes, take the doses evenly throughout the day. Morning, afternoon, evening, job done. As for PCT, people respond differently to Serm's. I personally have a very bad time with Nolva but am absolutely fine with Clomid. You won't know until you run it so I don't think it matters which one you choose.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

firestorm said:


> Sorry mate.
> 
> Yes, take the doses evenly throughout the day. Morning, afternoon, evening, job done. As for PCT, people respond differently to Serm's. I personally have a very bad time with Nolva but am absolutely fine with Clomid. You won't know until you run it so I don't think it matters which one you choose.


So will run Epistane at 30mg per day for the whole cycle and then run Nolva as PCT - at what dose (Nolva) I am unsure at so need to look into that more (unless someone can help here) and I take it that should be evenly spaced out throughout the day?

In what way do you mean 'you had a bad time on Nolva'?

Thanks


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## firestorm (Feb 11, 2009)

Yes mate 30mg right through. Typical Nolva PCT protocol would be: day 1 60mg, days 2-11 40mg and days 12-21 20mg. I didn't get on well with nolva as I had quite a few bad side effects including some mildly hallucinogenic ones.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

firestorm said:


> Yes mate 30mg right through. Typical Nolva PCT protocol would be: day 1 60mg, days 2-11 40mg and days 12-21 20mg. I didn't get on well with nolva as I had quite a few bad side effects including some mildly hallucinogenic ones.


Thanks for the Nolva dosage - sounds like some bad sides for you.

Guess it would be best to get some Clomid just in case I have problems myself - would you run Clomid at the same dosage and days and take evenly spread out during the day?

Thanks


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## Hobbit JT (Sep 13, 2008)

THis should help taken from musclechat... Im thinking of doing either a pulse cycle or 6week with PCT in the summer. Found this:

What is Havoc/Epistane ?

Epitiostanol

2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

What is the ratio Anabolic/Androgenic ?

1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as plain methyl-test. (Vida)

I am under 21 years, Can I use Havoc/Epistane ?

No, you are too young. It is a steroid. You could mess up your endocrine system for life.

I heard that Havoc/Epistane could get rid of my gynos ?

Please stop searching solutions on a message board for your gynos and see a doctor. This is a steroid, dont use that to clear gynos. I repeat see your doctor.

Does Havoc and Epistane are the same thing ?

Yes

So which one should I get ?

You should buy it from :

1) The company you trust the most.

2) The company with the better customer service

3) The company who brought it to the market

4) The company that sell it at the best price

I made my choice but it isn't my job to tell you which one to choose here.

Does Havoc/Epistane is liver toxic ?

Yes, it is. Be careful when you are using any 17aa Methyl PS.

Does Havoc/Epistane require a PCT?

Like every androgens, YES, it needs a PCT ( See below to know what you need for it)

What are the possible side effects from ? Thanks Krzna for this one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krzna

Prostrate Pain: Common symptoms of prostate problems are frequent or difficult urination, dribbling when urinating, erection difficulty, and pain in that general area. Either a rise in estrogen or DHT levels from increased testosterone, etc., probably causes this. If you have ongoing prostate issues, it' s best not to use prohormones.

Herbal treatments:

Saw Palmetto Extract - Usual dosage is 320mg , precycled for 2 weeks prior to cycle

Beta sisterol or plant phytosterols - 300mg several times daily

Flax seed oil - anywhere from 5-20 tblspoons daily

Prescription Treatments:

Proscar/Propecia - Prop is great to keep on hand if hair loss is a side, I will deal with this next.

Hair Loss:

This is another famous side that is experienced by people using ph's. Here are a few products I would strongly recommend.

Spironolactone 5% ( on cycle)

spiro and nizoral and azeliac acid.

I would highly recommend Fina and Propecia in the mix if you have hair shedding problems. If you do have Androgenic alopecia, and a genetic balding pattern, I would highly advise you not to risk this compound.

Acne: One of the most common sides of using androgens and supposedly the most dreaded. Here is why, Androgen production stimulates sebaceous glands and cause them to enlarge.. The androgen-stimulated sebaceous glands produce more sebum. Sebum is a natural oil that makes the skin soft and waterproof. The oily sebum accumulates in the follicle as it moves up the hair shaft where it mixes with normal skin bacteria (Propionibacterium Acnes) and dead follicular skin cells. The dead cells normally get pushed to the surface where they are expelled. The more sebum is produced the greater the chances of clogged follicles that potentially result in pimples.

How to combat it :

High doses of Pantothenic Acid (Vitamin B5) are highly effective at reducing oil production in the sebaceous glands (the glands responsible for the skin's oiliness). It is generally recommended that the you preload with 5-10 grams of Pantothenic Acid per day for one week, followed by a maintenance intake of 2-3 grams per day until cessation of the cycle. In addition, cleansing the skin with salicylic acid and/or benzoyl peroxide (found in many over the counter acne treatments) is quite helpful for acne prevention.

*Testicular atrophy a.k.a my balls are shrinking :Yes, this is a common side effect of using any prohormone. However this is nothing to worry about. Under normal circumstances, you will get back to your normal size after the PCT. I am not a great fan of ATD, hence my thoughts lean to the safer old school clomid therapy.

Incase of extreme cases the following can be tried.

Day 1 Clomid @ 300mg

Week 5 Clomid @ 100mg

Week 5/6 Clomid @ 50mg

To the best of my knowledge this has cured most cases of testicular atrophy.

*Puffy nipples, soreness aka gyno

Most people are paranoid about gyno. Any number of AI products including Ultrahotter are available in the market today. So are prescription drugs such as Cytadren and Arimidex. Too much Cytadren or especially Adex will prevent gyno and probably a little water bloat, but it will also cut into your muscle gains by virtue of a less robust GH burst activity and lower subsequent IGF-1 levels.Some androgens increase muscle satellite cells sensitivity to fibroblast growth factor and IGF-1. IGF-1 is critical to get maximum anabolic activity from androgens. This means that androgens that increase GH production (i.e. those that aromatize to some degree) will most likely give you the greatest and most rapid gains in muscle mass.

*Nose Bleeds and Elevated Blood pressure.

PP being androgenic may increase blood pressure via a number of pathways. Though this condition may be more severe for some than it will be for others, those concerned may find Hawthorn Berry Extract of aid-300mgs-500mgs should do the trick. However, Hawthorne Berry does take 2 full weeks to kick in. Hence preloading is highly recommended. If one encounters a situation where in an immediate remedy is called for, then Celery Seed Extract at a high dosage can be used.

CoQ10 is also a very important support supplement to this cycle. CoQ10 is a fat-soluble nutrient found throughout the body, and is a vital player in the production of ATP. Exogenous CoQ10 may help to stabilize blood pressure due to its positive effects on the heart's pumping ability, to name but one of its benefits. Typically, 30mgs 2-3 times per day are required to elicit a response.

What is the dosage for a good cycle ?

For newbies :

Week 1 : 10 mg

Week 2 : 20 mg

Week 3 : 20 mg

Week 4 : 30 mg

For people who already used PH/PS in the past :

Week 1 : 30 mg

Week 2 : 30 mg

Week 3 : 30 mg

Week 4 : 30 mg

Pulse cycle : I personally don't recommend it but Dr.D does so I will put it here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phat Daddy

Well epi actually stimulates LH initially because of it's anti-e activity (or at least doesn't suppress it based on studies of it's free alcohol) so if you pulse which simply means dosing EOD or 2on/2off depending on how you work out, that allows for 3-4 doses/wk without shutdown. I think to be absolutely safe and get maximum bounce-back in test levels, dose only 3x/wk and never on consecutive days, and you can reap the benefits of some extra anabolism, test production, anti-gyno effects, etc. without needing any cycle support like liver supps or PCT meds later. I use to do this with dirty compounds like dbol and methyltest as a kid, so there's no reason it shouldn't work extra well with something like Epi! There are more suggestions I've posed in regard to this on the Epi forum at IBE and lots of guys are choosing this option for their Epi use so check out the forum there for more detailed protocols and info. People are logging right now with nothing but great feedback so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phat Daddy

Dosing something to intentionally avoid long term sides, such as HTPA suppression and liver damage. With pulsing, the serious, long term side effects of chronic oral treatment are avoided and short term side effect, like acne and mineral retention, are milder that usual. This allows for higher dosages to be used. Basically, if you dosed on an ED basis you would get 100% effect, 100% short term sides and 100% long term sides. If you dose EOD on a pulse protocol, you still get about 60% effect, 75% short term sides but only about 40% of the long term sides. That's not a bad trade off and very economical on the body and the wallet too! Of course if you would have gained 10lbs this means you will only gain 6lbs pulsing, but it also means you can do this for 2 or 3 times longer than a normal cycle. That equals about 2 months of worry free dosing, so the net effect is a gain of about 12lbs instead of 10lbs over twice the time frame with less sides and a milder PCT requirement if even needed at all. It's a great long term strategy and good for newer users looking to run fast, clean, cycles for 1 month with no PCT needed later. That's how I perfected it. There are two basic approaches to do it: EOD or 2on/2off depending on your workout schedule. Doses can be high (30-40mg) but take them close together preferably before 6pm (1 dose pre and 1 dose post-w/o instead of spread out like normal) or doses can be lower (10-20mg) if you want to stretch it to 2 or 3 months instead of just 1. Dose at least 3 times per week but not more than 4.

For advanced users different cycles are possible but I will not elaborate on it because you already know what you are doing.

Can I add any PH/ PS to my cycle ?

No, Havoc/Epistane is already strong enough alone. If you want to add something absolutely consider this :

Avoid all 17 aa methyl PS like superdrol, M1T, Halodrol, DMT&#8230;

Check for 4ad (The real one) (600-900 mg oral) or DHEA (100-200 mg)

Here is a comment from Dr.D about the use of DHEA :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phat Daddy

Yeah, it's a solid approach. The only issue I can see is possible excess androgeny. 200mg DHEA/day is amazingly androgenic to me. It makes my skin break out more that 600mg of TE/wk would. Epi has a fairly potent androgenic effect too so stacking the two would boost gains but may cause acne or mild headaches or that sort of thing. Or maybe not, it would be a worth a try and you could adjust the doses of each if you developed sides.

What supps should I use on cycle ?

ThermoLife Liver Longer : 2 caps/day

Anabolic Innovations Cycle support : 2 scoops/day

Sesamin : 1g / day

Taurine : 2-3g /day

Potassium : More than 1 g/day

Cissus Quadrangularis : 2 g/ day ( Joints ache could be a problem with Havoc/Epistane on cycle)

Why not use GMS, creatine or NO booster on cycle ?

GMS will cause terrible back pumps and no need for pumps on cycle

Creatine : Could cause back pumps also.

NO Booster : Too much pump in the gym arent useful, it will only limit your workout. Pumps from Havoc/Epistane are already crazy anyway.

What is the best PCT for Havoc/Epistane ?

There is no perfect PCT. There is so much debate on this board about it that nobody will ever have the last word on it. I will post a sample of PCT then post a few links about debates on other supps to add.

1) Nolvadex (Tamoxifen citrate) or Fareston (Toremifene Citrate) * :

Week 1 : 40 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 120 mg or 120 mg for 4 days then 90 mg(Toremifene Citrate)

Week 2 : 40 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 90 mg (Toremifene Citrate)

Week 3 : 20 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 60 mg (Toremifene Citrate)

Week 4 : 20 mg (Tamoxifen citrate) or 30 mg (Toremifene Citrate)

2) ThermoLife Ebol

Week 1 : 6 caps

Week 2 : 6 caps

Week 3 : 6 caps

Week 4 : 6 caps

3) Designer Supplements Lean Extreme or SNS Reduce XT

Week 1 : 3 caps

Week 2 : 3 caps

Week 3 : 3 caps

Week 4 : 3 caps

4) Basic supps like BCAA,Whey, BA, CM and Creatine

5) Anabolic Innovation Cycle support

Week 1 : 1 Scoop

Week 2 : 1 Scoop

Week 3 : 1 Scoop

Week 4 : 1 Scoop

Other possible supps :

1) Aromotase Inhibitor like ATD, 6-Bromo and 6-OXO **

2) Test boosters or adaptogens like Tribulus, Avena Sativa, Maca root, Rhodiola Rosea ( Good help to boost libido during the PCT)

3) Nettle root product like DS Activate ***

* There are different approaches and researches about SERM in PCT. TAM and TOR have each one some advantages. I recommend to read about it. Also, they are research chemicals so you have to know where to get them. Don't ask for sources.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

firestorm said:


> Typical Nolva PCT protocol would be: day 1 60mg, days 2-11 40mg and days 12-21 20mg.


What would the Clomid dosage be after a 6 week cycle of Epistane, would it be the same as Nolva?

Thanks


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## 5urfinpaul (Apr 5, 2009)

Not sure if it's been mentioned dagman, but I'm taking milk thistle with my Epistane cycle.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Just seen this thread. I think you will find that not running something for cortisol PCT will cause muscle loss as high cortisol is linked to this and coming off a cycle cortisol is elevated significantly. This is all demonstrated in the research.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

predatorN said:
 

> Just seen this thread. I think you will find that not running something for cortisol PCT will cause muscle loss as high cortisol is linked to this and coming off a cycle cortisol is elevated significantly. This is all demonstrated in the research.


I'm confused, will be using Nolva for PCT, asking about Clomid just in case I have any bad reaction to it, then I can go straight over to Clomid.

Guess I am missing something here, should I use AX LeanFX, could you explain please?


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## firestorm (Feb 11, 2009)

I don't agree with saying running cortisol support is necessary. If that's the case we should be commenting on every single cycle in the TAOS section and to be honest I can't see many people buying it. As TIO on MT has said, food controls insulin which controls cortisol. Keep calories up and you'll be fine.


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## Hobbit JT (Sep 13, 2008)

This info was taken from extremesupplements.co.uk

I found it really helpful on learning about what is needed for PCT and how to Cycle Epistane and other similar products.

Suggested First Cycles...

The following are some suggested first cycles in order from what might be described as most 'mild' to most 'heavy':

H-drol / H-Roid: 50mg every day (ed) for 4 - 6 weeks

Epidrol / Epithin-E: 30mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

T-Roid: 90mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

P-Plex: 30mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

M-Drol: 20mg ed for 3 weeks

To clarify 'mild' and 'heavy' a little further you might say that 'mild' would produce perhaps the least mass gain with correspondingly low side effects whilst 'heavy' might produce the greatest mass gain but with a higher likelihood that the trainer will experience some side effects. Typically, those on a cutting cycle will look to the milder cycles and those wanting to gain mass might look at the heavier cycles.

More advanced cycles...

The bigger trainer (potentially 90kg+ bodyweight) or the more experienced designer steroid user might want to use greater quantities of the product to get better results, or might want to consider stacking a number of products together. Please see the 'Advanced DS Cycles and Stacking' article on www.extremesupplements.co.uk for more information.

Dosing...

To keep the concentration of the product in the blood level and hence get the best results it is recommended to spread dosages throughout the day wherever possible; e.g. H-Drol 50mg = 2 caps so take one with breakfast and one with evening meal, Epidrol/Epithin-E 30mg = 3 caps so take one with breakfast one in the afternoon and the final one around bedtime.

Possible Side Effects...

Side effects that the trainer may experience whilst using DS include the following:

Cramping/pumps, particularly in lower back and shins Water retention

Oily skin/acne

Raising LDL cholesterol, lowering HDL

Elevated blood pressure

Liver stress

Lethargy

Loss of libido

Gynecomastia (Gyno, aka 'bitch tits')

Prostrate enlargement

Hair loss (aggravation of male pattern baldness symptoms)

It's worth pointing out that the majority of trainers will not likely suffer very harsh side effects on the milder cycles, whilst some may experience some and others may experience different ones on the more heavy cycles. Overall though the sides/gains ratio of these products is generally very good, it is advisable to start with a mild cycle and build from there with further cycles, that way the trainer will better understand how their body reacts in a safe manner.

Some of the products listed above are methylated, meaning they have a methyl group attached to the active compound to make them able to bypass the liver's function in the body and hence be absorbed for use. This methyl group can make the products toxic to the liver, though proper hydration should reduce any stress to the organ and its advised to drink at least 6-8 pints of water per day throughout a cycle. Products available fromwww.extremesupplements.co.uk to help maintain a healthy liver include Liv 52 DS and Primaforce Pro Liver. Of the DS we sell, both Diendrone, T-Roid and EQ JET are not methylated.

PCT...

The purpose of Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) is to promote natural testosterone production in the body; the use of a steroid will reduce and eventually stop the body's testosterone production, aprocess commonly referred to as 'shutdown'. In order to stimulate the body into producing testosterone again we require the use of other compounds to stimulate the endocrine system.

The most recommended products for PCT are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMs), which include the commonly used Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex / 'Nolva') and Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid). As these products are classed as Prescription Only Medicines (POMs) they are not available to buy legally over the counter in the UK, however a person is allowed to possess them. Tamoxifen and Clomiphene are widely available in their pharmaceutical grade tablet form under a variety of names as well as being produced as research chemicals in liquid form.

When running a first cycle and for subsequent cycles it is generally recommended to have Nolvadex on hand due to its ability to suppress symptoms of gyno such as a lump in the nipple. All of the Designer Steroids mentioned have been designed with low aromatisation in mind therefore reducing the risk of gyno, however in the event of a lump or tenderness appearing in the nipple it is advised to cease use of the steroid and commence Nolvadex use immediately.

Nolva PCT:

Day 1 - 60mg

Days 2 - 10: 40mg

Days 11 - 21: 20mg

Clomid PCT:

Day 1 - 150mg

Days 2 - 10: 100mg

Days 11 - 21: 50mg

It is worth considering that Nolva and Clomid are not without a potential to cause side effects themselves and further reading is suggested on which product a trainer might feel best for them. Due to their long half lives both Nolva and Clomid can be taken in one dose, once a day. You start your PCT the day after your last capsule of the Designer Steroid.

There are also many supporting PCT products available from www.extremesupplements.co.uk, including Hyperdrol X2, Cissus-Drol and Inhibit-E which contain an aromatase inhibitor to stop the body converting testosterone into oestrogen. However it is generally recommended that a SERM is more suitable, especially for the first cycle. A trainer might want to consider running any of the natural testosterone boosters available in that section of our products page alongside a SERM.

As an optional addition in PCT many trainers are using a cortisol blocker to help the body to manage the catabolism enabled by this hormone in the body and hence help keep the gains made on cycle. Whilst not an essential component for PCT these products do appear useful, our products page contains some ideal products for this use including 11-Test and Lean Xtreme.

Support Supplements...

To mitigate the risks of some of the side effects associated with OTC steroids the following nutritional supplements could be considered:

Liver support (Liv52 DS, Primaforce Pro Liver)

Cholesterol support (Primaforce Max-CLA)

Cramps (taurine, potassium)

Prostrate support (NOW Foods Prostate Support)

General health (fish oils, flax oil)

Typically a trainer would commence usage of the supplements up to a week prior to running the DS cycle to build up levels in the body and continue usage through the cycle until the end of PCT.

Time Off...

Standard protocol to allow the body to fully recover following a steroid cycle is calculated as:

Time On + PCT = Time Off

Therefore a 4 week cycle, with 3 weeks PCT should lead to a period of at least 7 weeks before any further Designer Steroid use.

Other Considerations...

Water - As with any steroid cycle it is essential that the trainer maintains healthy hydration levels and as such it is suggested that water intake should be high throughout the cycle and PCT.

Diet - As the old adage goes, you get out only what you put in. If a trainer's diet is poor their gains will be poor, DS use should not be considered as an alternative to good diet, a good diet suitable to the trainer's goals will help get the very best from the cycle.

Training - Training when taking a DS should be no more or less intense than when not. It is important to remember however that with many steroids strength can increase extremely rapidly and whilst the muscles get stronger, supportive tissue such as ligaments and tendons don't strengthen at the same rate. To avoid injury good technique and form are paramount.

Alcohol - Due to the liver toxicity of methylated DS it is not generally advisable to consume alcohol whilst on cycle. Whilst a few drinks alongside good hydration levels may not cause too much harm a sensible approach is recommended

Age - Usage of DS is not advised until the age of 21 due to the potential for steroids to close the growth plates prematurely and hence stunt potential further natural growth of the individual. Prior to 21 there are many better options available including experimentation with diet, protein supplementation, creatine etc.

Written By Celt.

H-drol

This compound was originally released by Gaspari and Competitive Edge Labs' excellent clone H-drol carries their typical lab assay proving its quality. It is considered one of the 'mildest' DS' available due to its low side effects for most users and quality, lean gains that come on over a longer period than the 'stronger' DS'. For this reason H-drol is often used either for lean bulking on a tightly controlled diet just above maintenance cals intake, for recomping at maintenance cals intake, or to assist with muscle retention in a cutting cycle in cals deficit.

Typical cycles:

Beginners:

Under 160lbs: 50mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

160lbs +: 75mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

Advanced:

Under 160lbs: 75mg ed for 6 - 8 weeks

160lbs - 200lbs: 75mg - 100mg ed for 6 - 8 weeks

200lbs +: 100mg - 125mg ed for 6 - 8 weeks

Epidrol/Epithin-E

These products can often be referred to as "Epistane" as that was one of the first brand names for the compound when released by IBE. Like H-drol it is often considered one of the 'mildest' DS' available due to its low side effects for most users and quality, lean gains that come on over a longer period than the 'stronger' DS'. However "Epi" products can be somewhat of a jekyll and hyde given that at higher dosages they can provide very quick mass building effects and strength gains similar to the 'stronger' DS', with corresponding potential for cramps/pumps in the lower back and shins like the stronger products. Epi dosage can therefore be worth experimenting with to find what amount gives the results a trainer wants from a particular cycle.

"Epi" products are actually a steroidal anti-oestrogen, meaning that over the course of a cycle levels of oestrogen can be decreased in the body. This can be beneficial in that it can prevent the likelihood of gyno, but it is worth bearing in mind also that oestrogen is essential to lubricate joints and for libido, so any joint pain experienced on cycle can be a result of this depletion and fish/flax oils are good supplements to help avoid this.

The typical cycles below are optimised for mass building, be that lean bulking or all out bulking.

Typical cycles:

Beginners:

Under 170lbs: 20mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

170lbs +: 30mg ed for 4 - 6 weeks

Advanced:

Under 170lbs: 30mg ed for 6 - 8 weeks

160lbs - 200lbs: 40mg - 50mg ed for 6 - 8 weeks

200lbs +: 40mg - 60mg ed for 6 - 8 weeks


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Starting my Epistane 6 week cycle tomorrow (been delayed due to elbow pain).

Running for six weeks at 30mg per day (3 tabs spread out over the day).

Will be taking Milk Thistle (3 a day = 600mg)

Cranberry Juice

Fish Oil tablets (6 a day = 6,000mg)

Hyaluronic Acid (2 a day = 280mg)

PCT will be Nolva at 40/40/20/20 with Lean Xtreme (6 caps 3 times a day).


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