# Slin - What is the main reason people get fat and some don't?



## Xage (Sep 14, 2014)

Hi guys

Insulin, which we all know, can really bring some great results when mixed with GH and roids. I've been wondering tho, why is it that some people seem to gain so much fat and some barely get fat at all? Is this due to your body type or is it diet only?

People always mention the "Carb spillover" as can turn into fat. When eating ~44-5500 calories as some do, how can you get away with doing low dosage of Slin without spilling over? The general recommendation for new guys is pr. IU slin, 10g carbs. And then you should work you way down.

If you focus slin around Pre workout / Post workout and you eat a lot of calories.. how can you avoid getting to many carbs => Spillover => Fat gains?

I am simply wondering how come some people stay lean and full while others gain a lot of fat in the process? If you eat high calories (cause you're big) can you get away with only using low-dosage of slin? or would this instantly lead to spilover => Fat/water gain.. Reason i am asking, is that i can't figure it out. I see guys in here (big guys) using 4-8 IU post workout, but they do both Intra shake + PWO meal containing a lot of carbs..


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

@Xage, posted in the wrong section mate.

@Pscarb should be able to answer this for you.


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## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

Slin to fit your carbs intake not other way round

I see that as a main reason

best


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## Xage (Sep 14, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> @Xage, posted in the wrong section mate.
> 
> @Pscarb should be able to answer this for you.


 Ohh sorry mate!

Would be Nice, Pscarb knows his


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## Xage (Sep 14, 2014)

Sebbek said:


> Slin to fit your carbs intake not other way round
> 
> I see that as a main reason
> 
> best


 Some people eat 5-6k calories if they have to match the slin to this, they would need huge ammounts? Hence i am wondering why some people use low slin dose and don't get fat?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Xage said:


> Some people eat 5-6k calories if they have to match the slin to this, they would need huge ammounts? Hence i am wondering why some people use low slin dose and don't get fat?


 No. You dont match slin to your calories....

You make sure you have enough CARBS to balance the slin. If you are using say novorapid then it is in and out your system pretty quick so only the carbs around that time frame matter.

Calories are calories... and are a different issue.


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## Xage (Sep 14, 2014)

funkdocta said:


> No. You dont match slin to your calories....
> 
> You make sure you have enough CARBS to balance the slin. If you are using say novorapid then it is in and out your system pretty quick so only the carbs around that time frame matter.
> 
> Calories are calories... and are a different issue.


 I know that mate  But some people have post / Intra shakes/meal containing 200g carbs and use 10 IU slin / low dose.. how come they don't "spillover" and get fat?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Xage said:


> I know that mate  But some people have post / Intra shakes/meal containing 200g carbs and use 10 IU slin / low dose.. how come they don't "spillover" and get fat?


 coz they burn the fat/overspill off?? because not everyone is the same size and need more carbs than others?? its not rocket science 

A 20 stone guy will need more carbs than a 14 stone guy...


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## countrybumpkin (Jul 2, 2011)

Main issues are with people getting fat

Being far to over cautious with slin and consuming far more carbs than necessary
Not knowing how to eat with slin, often having a ridiculously high fat diet alongside all the insulin and carbs intaken.

And i'd imagine the question to your most recent post would be the fact that some people are more insulin sensitive than others.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Sebbek said:


> Slin to fit your carbs intake not other way round
> 
> I see that as a main reason
> 
> best


 THIS.......

when people are looking to use Insulin they ask people on a forum who have no idea about their diet, their insulin sensitivity, lifestyle, activity levels etc....and more often than not are led by someone who looks like they have muscle who gives a number as if that number is the golden rule.....

the main reason people get fat on insulin is because they eat to many calories FACT!!!! this cannot be dismissed they don't get fat because they take to much insulin they get fat because they pick a number out of thin air then raise their carb amounts to match, which normally puts them in more of a surplus than they all ready are........

if for example you eat 50g of carbs post workout then ask on a forum how much insulin to use and the replies given back are 10iu's and the fact you have to use 10g of carbs per IU of insulin the person more often than not will then take 10iu post workout and increase their PWO carbs to 100g to match the insulin amount, failing to understand that they are then eating 200calories more each day than they predicted so 1000calories a week (given a 5 day training system)

what is then funny is many think those 1000 calories are magically used as magic calories because of the insulin, they are a surplus and if you eat in a surplus more often than not you will gain fat.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> THIS.......
> 
> when people are looking to use Insulin they ask people on a forum who have no idea about their diet, their insulin sensitivity, lifestyle, activity levels etc....and more often than not are led by someone who looks like they have muscle who gives a number as if that number is the golden rule.....
> 
> ...


 This is really good information, thanks for posting. I am currently structuring my PWO meals as I bought a few Novo Pens to try out and this has come in extremely useful.

Would this mean I simply cut down my kcal intake elsewhere and stick to the protocol of 10g carbs per 1iu of Insulin? I am assuming this is a necessity, as is the dextrose. What I am unsure about is the kcal intake afterwards as the insulin is still in your system, I will be following a diet protocol similar to this:

* 45 mins after PWO meal - 50g lean protein (chicken breast, tinned tuna, egg whites, fat free greek yogurt) , 75g low GI carbs (brown rice, all bran) *

* 1 hour later same meal / macros as 6. (Protein - 50, carbs - 75) *

* 3 hours later 50g protein, 5g fat*

My question is should I be following this to the letter? Or is there room for adding in more fat, less protein, carbs etc.?

Also, is 100g of carbs not 400 kcal instead of 200 kcal?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quackerz said:


> This is really good information, thanks for posting. I am currently structuring my PWO meals as I bought a few Novo Pens to try out and this has come in extremely useful.
> 
> Would this mean I simply cut down my kcal intake elsewhere and stick to the protocol of 10g carbs per 1iu of Insulin? I am assuming this is a necessity, as is the dextrose. What I am unsure about is the kcal intake afterwards as the insulin is still in your system, I will be following a diet protocol similar to this:
> 
> ...


 i am pretty sure adding an additional 50g to your existing 50g post workout is adding an extra 200 calories ?????

what my post means is fit your insulin to your current diet, so if you are having 50g of carbs post workout then u use 5iu of insulin, you don't just jump in at 10iu and add the extra carbs then expect not to gain fat.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> i am pretty sure adding an additional 50g to your existing 50g post workout is adding an extra 200 calories ?????
> 
> what my post means is fit your insulin to your current diet, so if you are having 50g of carbs post workout then u use 5iu of insulin, you don't just jump in at 10iu and add the extra carbs then expect not to gain fat.


 Ok perfect, so the subsequent meals afterwards are not as important as long as I hit my carb intake directly after the shot then? I will only be using 5iu PWO and gauge from there.

You said in the OP that 100g of carbs was 200 kcals and I got confused with this.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quackerz said:


> Ok perfect, so the subsequent meals afterwards are not as important as long as I hit my carb intake directly after the shot then? I will only be using 5iu PWO and gauge from there.
> 
> You said in the OP that 100g of carbs was 200 kcals and I got confused with this.


 no i didn't what i said is that if you add 50g of carbs to your PWO meal this would total 100g and by doing this you would add an extra 200cals to your days calories, not that the 100g would be 200calories but the extra 50g you add would add 200 more calories.

" take 10iu post workout and increase their PWO carbs to 100g to match the insulin amount, failing to understand that they are then eating 200calories more each day"


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Pscarb said:


> no i didn't what i said is that if you add 50g of carbs to your PWO meal this would total 100g and by doing this you would add an extra 200cals to your days calories, not that the 100g would be 200calories but the extra 50g you add would add 200 more calories.
> 
> " take 10iu post workout and increase their PWO carbs to 100g to match the insulin amount, failing to understand that they are then eating 200calories more each day"


 I simply took this as you meant 100g of carbs was 400 kcal. My mistake if it was a misinterpretation, but that is how it seemed.

Semantics aside, is there any way you could help me with my question please?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

There is another can of worms to open if you start taking your slin pre-workout... as you need to make sure you have some carbs in your system before your workout to prevent going hypo...

If you dont normally have carbs pre or intra workout then add them because of the slin.... then carry on with what you normally so post workout... thats extra cals which will = fat gain.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

funkdocta said:


> There is another can of worms to open if you start taking your slin pre-workout... as you need to make sure you have some carbs in your system before your workout to prevent going hypo...
> 
> If you dont normally have carbs pre or intra workout then add them because of the slin.... then carry on with what you normally so post workout... thats extra cals which will = fat gain.


 What would be the purpose of using it post workout?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> What would be the purpose of using it post workout?


 the same as pre workout  haha

some use it pre workout for insance pumps etc... post workout it is just to help you grow!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

funkdocta said:


> the same as pre workout  haha
> 
> some use it pre workout for insance pumps etc... post workout it is just to help you grow!


 Ask a stupid question........ 

Cheers mate.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

funkdocta said:


> *the same as pre workout *  haha
> 
> some use it pre workout for insance pumps etc... post workout it is just to help you grow!


 with less chance of undesirable sides

i wouldn't want to be mid workout wondering if i was light headed because of a high rep set of squats or if i was in fact going hypoglycemic

as you say there is benefit to pre but personally i opted for post due to it being a much easier way of managing things with all the same nutrient shuttling benefits


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## Xage (Sep 14, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> THIS.......
> 
> when people are looking to use Insulin they ask people on a forum who have no idea about their diet, their insulin sensitivity, lifestyle, activity levels etc....and more often than not are led by someone who looks like they have muscle who gives a number as if that number is the golden rule.....
> 
> ...


 So to understand the above right?

Given a guy, eating.. lets say 150g carbs pre workout, 100g intra workout, 150g post workout .. would he need to match his slin according to that? I.e. 20-25 IU pre and 15-25 Post?

So that Slin matches the allready planned diet and diet doesn't change due to slin intake?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Xage said:


> So to understand the above right?
> 
> Given a guy, eating.. lets say 150g carbs pre workout, 100g intra workout, 150g post workout .. would he need to match his slin according to that? I.e. 20-25 IU pre and 15-25 Post?
> 
> So that Slin matches the allready planned diet and diet doesn't change due to slin intake?


 Not really. You just dont need that much slin. Or that much carbs tbh.... unless your like 20 stone lean 

You dont HAVE to match the slin to your carbs... the premise is that you done match your carbs to you slin. So if you are consuming 400g carbs around your workout... there is still not reason to go over say 15iu slin... unless you are a freak


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

@Pscarb out of interest mate, what's your take on having fats whilst taking slin? I've been researching a lot and listening to a bit of Dave Palumbo's information and he said that as long as there are carbs in your shake/meals then it doesn't matter if you have fats too.

I suppose my question is, as everyone says "insulin is a storage hormone so when you take it and ingest fats, those fats will be stored as fat" whereas Palumbo says that its a transport hormone and as long as there are carbs in there, those fats wont be stored as fat. What's your take/experience?


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## Colin (Sep 28, 2015)

Chelsea said:


> @Pscarb out of interest mate, what's your take on having fats whilst taking slin? I've been researching a lot and listening to a bit of Dave Palumbo's information and he said that as long as there are carbs in your shake/meals then it doesn't matter if you have fats too.
> 
> I suppose my question is, as everyone says "insulin is a storage hormone so when you take it and ingest fats, those fats will be stored as fat" whereas Palumbo says that its a transport hormone and as long as there are carbs in there, those fats wont be stored as fat. What's your take/experience?


 I'm using fats around using Novorapid (Second meal) based on Palumbos advice haven't added much fat as a result.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Chelsea said:


> @Pscarb out of interest mate, what's your take on having fats whilst taking slin? I've been researching a lot and listening to a bit of Dave Palumbo's information and he said that as long as there are carbs in your shake/meals then it doesn't matter if you have fats too.
> 
> I suppose my question is, as everyone says "insulin is a storage hormone so when you take it and ingest fats, those fats will be stored as fat" whereas Palumbo says that its a transport hormone and as long as there are carbs in there, those fats wont be stored as fat. What's your take/experience?


 Same rules apply, anything excess above and beyond what your body needs for energy, glycogen storage, recovery and repair will be stored as fat.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Colin said:


> I'm using fats around using Novorapid (Second meal) based on Palumbos advice haven't added much fat as a result.





Dark sim said:


> Same rules apply, anything excess above and beyond what your body needs for energy, glycogen storage, recovery and repair will be stored as fat.


 So Palumbo is right then, its not a selective process, if you ingest fats and take slin it makes you hold fat, its literally just a result of total calorie intake.

Nice one.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

insulin is a transporting hormone this is correct and it doesn't aim specifically at fat to store, as has been said if you are in excess of any macro it will be stored as fat.....

you certainly do not need to be fat free but if you are liberal with your fats around insulin injections than the body will store them quicker than any other macro as it is not a high energy process, by this i mean it is very easy to store fat as fat in the body much easier than converting Pro or Carbs to fat then store.

So Palumbo is correct to a degree but i would still say to someone to not add fat to a meal if that meal is the meal you are eating for your insulin shot, the meal before or after will not matter.

things like this in the body are not black and white, by this i mean if you eat fat when you shoot insulin it not a fact it will be store as fat the whole process is a complicated one things don't just happen.....

you are more likely to get fat from overeating carbs when you use insulin than if you have some fat grams in a meal.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> insulin is a transporting hormone this is correct and it doesn't aim specifically at fat to store, as has been said if you are in excess of any macro it will be stored as fat.....
> 
> you certainly do not need to be fat free but if you are liberal with your fats around insulin injections than the body will store them quicker than any other macro as it is not a high energy process, by this i mean it is very easy to store fat as fat in the body much easier than converting Pro or Carbs to fat then store.
> 
> ...


 Perfect mate appreciate that.

One last thing, what do you prefer for slin timing, pre or post workout?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Xage said:


> So to understand the above right?
> 
> Given a guy, eating.. lets say 150g carbs pre workout, 100g intra workout, 150g post workout .. would he need to match his slin according to that? I.e. 20-25 IU pre and 15-25 Post?
> 
> So that Slin matches the allready planned diet and diet doesn't change due to slin intake?


 no you don't HAVE TO do anything, my point is that many will create an insulin number then add the carbs to their diet the numbers you quote above are not practical i doubt many will have those numbers...
i am not telling anyone what they should use in fact to many guys use insulin when they haven't got the muscle base or metabolism to justify its use......

if you have 50g of carbs post workout then use 5iu max if you have more then you will have to add to your diet which in turn could put you more in a surplus and you gain fat..........

so one of the main reason people get fat on insulin is because they overeat carbs.



funkdocta said:


> Not really. You just dont need that much slin. Or that much carbs tbh.... unless your like 20 stone lean
> 
> You dont HAVE to match the slin to your carbs... the premise is that you done match your carbs to you slin. So if you are consuming 400g carbs around your workout... there is still not reason to go over say 15iu slin... unless you are a freak


 Agreed.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Chelsea said:


> Perfect mate appreciate that.
> 
> One last thing, what do you prefer for slin timing, pre or post workout?


 i prefer pre but i rarely use it these days to be fair i do not need to add the size Insulin potentially could give....


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

As @Pscarb has said, its simply matching your slin to the carbs you are ingesting.

If you use 50g currently of carbs as you work out, then 5iu should be fine. If over time you increase the carbs to 60g then you can look to increase insulin to 6iu etc.

Essentially as you grow and need more calories, at this point one can slowly increase the insulin as needed. You don't say I'm using 10iu slin so I'm gonna randomly whack in 100g extra carbs. Why? What would this achieve? Unless your body needs those 100g extra carbs (and so 400 calories) it'll just be stored as adipose tissue.

Adding muscle isn't about adding huge amount of calories quickly, its absolutely slowly matching calories to muscle grow and slowly increasing it over time to add lean body mass... which thus means a slow increase of slin as needed to help the uptake to the muscle.

Simple as that.


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

Great thread this.

@PscarbI don't personally take any shakes, I prefer to just eat food. Working off your principle, I would not add in extra carbs to match my insulin, but instead work my insulin around my diet. My diet is quite high in carbs generally (I'm a strongman not a bodybuilder, so I've not had abs ever!), but how would I fit this in?

My concern is with the timings, I would be taking novarapid, so can I do this with my current diet, of which I have a lot of low GI carbs, or would I need to make modifications to include high GI after the shot?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the carbs you take do not need to be high GI, you would fit the insulin in with your current diet there is no reason to add carbs to your current diet if you all ready eat a diet with plenty of carbs


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

Ok thanks, but of course with high GI you know when they will hit, low GI you don't fully know the release rate.

For example, if one meal was 200g pasta, how many units would you use, and when would you time them?

Is it just a case of working it out from the GI, and timing as best you can? Or using a blood monitor and adding insulin according to the result, keeping it above 4.0mmol/L?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fina said:


> Ok thanks, but of course with high GI you know when they will hit, low GI you don't fully know the release rate.
> 
> For example, if one meal was 200g pasta, how many units would you use, and when would you time them?
> 
> Is it just a case of working it out from the GI, and timing as best you can? Or using a blood monitor and adding insulin according to the result, keeping it above 4.0mmol/L?


 well GI means nothing unless your going to eat that Carb food on its own, add Protein or Fats and the GI number drops.....and so does the timings

using insulin is down to the individual by this i mean how fat are you? how much muscle do you have? (indicates how insulin sensitive you are) my advice is to add small amounts of insulin to your current nutritional make up, so there is no need to add extra carbs.....

lower GI carbs still work after you have eaten them the only difference is the range of release is longer than higher GI foods like white bread.....


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

Thank you, very informative, certainly changes my previous perception. I'm trying it out as you say now, it's not easy to figure out and I've gone through about 30 testing strips in 2 days, but it's worth figuring out and definitely makes more sense than the common suggestions online!


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## Fina (Dec 26, 2004)

Gibboguns said:


> Bullshit


 Well that's that then. Thanks for the valuable input.


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## Dave_shorts (Jan 4, 2015)

Gibboguns said:


> Bullshit


 Want to elaborate?? Most unhelpful contribution!!!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Gibboguns said:


> Bullshit


 another amazing contribution from the faceless wonder


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