# I Guess I'm Taking This Seriously: A Journal By Goosh (with pics)



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

UPDATE ON PAGE 4:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/218442-i-guess-im-taking-seriously-journal-goosh-pics-4.html#post4626628

Well, I've scrapped my first journal as it wasn't very well thought out, and a lot has changed since then.

I started off generally getting fit with the girlfriend and running with an aim to run a 6k fun run for Sport Relief. Successfully completed it in under an hour and was well chuffed and continued on from there.

I'm now at the stage where I am looking to get bigger; more cut and generally put the weights to some use is the ultimate goal.

I'm as dedicated as I will ever be to training now, so I'm upping the aims and really going for it now.

*Background*

Earlier in my life I was a typical ectomorph, I attended raves as a straight head and danced my little **** off and was generally active. That is until my metabolism ****ed off at around 25 years old and I turned into a fat lump - beer might also have a lot to answer for. Biggest I ever got was a size 36 waist in jeans and around 88kg - and this was considered fat for me!

Now, I'm 32, been "training" for around a year and I'm around the 79kg mark (and a size 32 jeans).

*Aim*

I effectively want to get bigger as cleanly as possible and actually end up with shoulders

*The Beginning*

So, I actually started this on the 1st March and this is the info:

*Stats*

Weight: 79kg / 175 lbs

Height: 5' 11" / 1.78 meters

BF %: 11% (Calipers) - I think this is wrong personally but have no other way of testing.

Chest (Under Armpit) : 40" / 101 cm

Bicep (Relaxed): 31cm / 12"

Bicep (Flexed):36cm / 14"

Waist: 91cm / 36" (so god knows how 32" jeans fit me :s)

Neck: 38cm / 15"

*Diet*

As of last week, I've been using MyFitnessPal and its estimating around 3,300 calories a day. I'm aiming for around 3,600.

For me, this is effectively a bulk period. My current average daily meal based on this consists of:


TimeNameCaloriesProteinCarbs05:202 x poached eggs on brown bread with lurpak light butter396222408:00Whey Protein Shake (with water)18839412:00Chicken, Veg and Brown Rice619647914:30Mass Gainer Shake (with full fat milk)391303715:30Chicken, Veg and Brown Rice619647918:30Chicken, Veg and Brown Rice619647920:30Peanut Butter Sandwich (50/50 bread)372153822:00MP Milk Protein Smooth (with full fat milk)4826223*TOTAL**3,686**360**363*

If I miss my numbers I try ram in some peanut butter or another smoothie/shake etc. I'm also eating dry roasted nuts at work if I get low etc. Getting hard as I don't feel hungry and eating it for eating's sake (a good thing apparently).

*Training*

Currently 4 days a week with a targeted body part/split body part per day. I've been playing about with a lot of routines, but I've found these to be very effective and intense and really get me going. Since I've switched to these I've really felt these workouts.

Every day starts off with a 10 minute cardio warm-up - around 1.6km on treadmill.

The routines I've set myself is:

Monday: Chest & Triceps

3 x 10 DB Press (Flat Bench) (PB: 24kg, currently 22kg)

3 x 8 DB Fly (Flat Bench) (PB: 14kg, currently 14kg)

3 x 8 DB Skull Crushers (PB: 10kg, currently 8kg)

3 x 15 DB One-Arm Tricep Extension (Both arms) (PB: 10kg, currently 8kg)

3 x 15 Fly Machine (PB: 54kg, increasing each set, starting around 40kg)

3 x 15 Machine Tricep Extensions (PB: 59kg, currently 47kg)

6 x 15 Assisted Dips (Varying counterweights (around 44-66kg)

1 x 14 Tricep Pulldown Confusion Set (Rope: start at 19kg (slab #9), lower 2 slabs, increase 1 slab, until you've done full plates (9,7,6,7,5,6,4,5,3,4,2,3,1)

1 x minute rope machine on level 5 (max 6) - LOVE this!

Tuesday: Back / Biceps

3 x 10 BB Bent-Over Rows (PB: 20kg, currently 18kg)

3 x 10 DB Reverse Fly (PB: 14kg but not clean, currently 12kg)

3 x 10 Lat Pull Down (PB:52kg, increasing each set, stating around 41kg)

3 x 8 DB Hammer Curls (PB: 14kg, currently 12kg)

3 x 8 DB Bicep Curls (PB: 14kg, currently 12kg)

3 x 15 Seated Low Row (PB:35kg, increasing each set, stating around 29kg)

3 x 10 Diverging Lat Pull Down (PB:52kg, increasing each set, stating around 41kg)

3 x 10 Diverging Seated Row (PB:42kg, increasing each set, stating around 36kg)

3 x 8 Assisted Solar Pull ups (Varying counterweights depending on energy)

3 x 8 Assisted Military Pull ups (Varying counterweights depending on energy)

1 x 14 Bicep Curl Confusion Set (Rope: start at 19kg (slab #9), lower 2 slabs, increase 1 slab, until you've done full plates (9,7,6,7,5,6,4,5,3,4,2,3,1)

1 x minute rope machine on level 5 (max 6)

Thursday: Shoulders

3 x 10 Incline DB Shoulder Press (PB: 18kg, currently 16kg)

3 x 10 Upright BB Rows (PB: 20kg, currently 20kg)

3 x 15 DB Lat Raises (Bent arms) (PB: 14kg, currently 12kg)

3 x 15 Front DB Shoulder Raises (PB: 12kg, currently 10kg)

3 x 15 Bent-Over DB Lat Raises (PB: 12kg, currently 8kg)

3 x 10 Smith Machine Presses (PB: 40kg, currently 37kg)

1 x 10 DB Shoulder Shrugs (PB: 36kg, currently 34kg)

Friday: Legs

3 x 12 Calf Press (PB: 52kg, currently 47kg)

3 x 15 Leg Press (PB: 127kg, currently 101kg)

3 x 12 Leg Extension (PB: 35kg, currently 27kg)

3 x 12 Prone Leg Curl (PB: 35kg, currently 27kg)

3 x 12 DB Squats (PB: 10kg, currently 10kg)

3 x 12 DB Lunges (PB: 10kg, currently 10kg)

Note: I can't do Deadlifts or BB squats atm as I am trying to make my back stronger (suffered a trapped nerve and muscle spasms last year, so have to avoid that.)

*Supplements & Cycle*

Currently I'm taking:

- 1 x MultiVit (ED)

- 1 x Vit C (ED)

- 7 x Creatine Monohydrate (ED)

I started a cycle on the 1st March too:

Week 1-4 - 50mg x DBOL (ED)

Week 1-12 - 500mg Test-E (EW)

Week 14-18 - 20mg Nolva (ED)

*
**Summary*

I'm hoping to use this journal to improve on my gains and generally improve on my dedication - actually getting something out of my training sessions.

Improve my lifting, get rounder shoulders and generally getting bigger whilst maintaining a lean figure.

Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoy my journey.

*Photos*

*Week 1*

Back: 

Back Flex: 

Side: 

Chest & Bicep: 

Standing Relaxed:


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Quick update of new photos:

Week 4

Back: 

Back Flex: 

Side: 

Chest & Bicep: 

Standing Relaxed: 

This is the end of my dbol kicker


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Looking good mate 

Straighten that back up for the lat spread :beer:

I love the rope machine too lol batter it on back day!!

Is it one of these.....


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Cheers @R0BLET. hehe @ the lat spread - yeah, still not fully figured out how to do that one yet - look like a bloody hunchback.

Aye, that's the rope machine I use. I was devastated when it was broken for three days. lol. I tend to do 1 minute bursts on the 2nd hardest and effectively try to beat my distance every time. Only downside is it makes my hands balloon up (even with gloves on), but my god it literally works every part of the upper body.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Cheers @R0BLET. hehe @ the lat spread - yeah, still not fully figured out how to do that one yet - look like a bloody hunchback.
> 
> Aye, that's the rope machine I use. I was devastated when it was broken for three days. lol. I tend to do 1 minute bursts on the 2nd hardest and effectively try to beat my distance every time. Only downside is it makes my hands balloon up (even with gloves on), but my god it literally works every part of the upper body.


It's a great bit of kit to wrap a session up, I've been doing 100ft at each level then back down again - killer!

Pmsl, I wear gloves to and they burn like hell. Worth it though


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

R0BLET said:


> It's a great bit of kit to wrap a session up, I've been doing 100ft at each level then back down again - killer!


Ooo, might have to do that!


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Had a nice bonus day yesterday with a 2.5 hour workout that was meant to be bicep only but turned into a bi/tri/shoulder fatigue session. Was a fantastic workout, had amazing pump and burn but was slightly spoilt by my t-shirt being stolen, but other than that I had a goodun.

Today was Chest & Tri and I was feeling it a little from yesterdays workout, but completed my full set (with some slight variations):

3 x 10 DB Press (Flat Bench) - matched PB with 24kg

3 x 8 DB Fly (Flat Bench) - continued PB with 14kg

3 x 8 DB Skull Crushers - maintained 8kg

3 x 8 BB Skull Crushers (new addition) - 17.5kg BB

3 x 15 DB One-Arm Tricep Extension (Both arms) - continued PB @ 10kg

3 x 15 Machine Tricep Extensions - 47kg

6 x 15 Assisted Dips - all at 44kg (hurt like hell!)

1 x minute rope machine on level 5.

Had a lot of fatigue from yesterdays session so I might make tomorrow legs to give the arms a bit of a rest.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Just weighed & measured myself:


*1st March 2013**Today**Difference**Weight:*79kg / 175 lbs83kg / 184 lbs*4kg / 9 lbs**BF%:*11%11%*0%**Chest (Under Armpit):*101 cm / 40"104 cm / 40.9"*3cm / 0.9"**Bicep (Flexed):*36cm / 14"37cm / 14.5"*1cm / 0.5"**Waist:*91cm / 36"90cm / 35.4"*-1cm / -0.6"**Neck:*38cm / 15"40.5cm / 15.7"*2.5cm / 07"*

Quite chuffed with some of these increases, but it could be better. I'm starting to notice the effects of the Test in my system now, so I've got ~8 weeks to make the most of it before the end of my cycle and try and build as much mass as possible.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, today was meant to be photos day but my back has decided to go again (I have a loose disc that if it shifts it makes my back curve like a funfair mirror  ) so the fact I cannot stand is going to hinder me for a while.

I had a great session yesterday, but I felt my back tweak doing bent-over barbell rows so I think I'm gonna take a rest this week and do core exercises (mat based stretches etc).

Gutted as I am starting to see some amazing gains.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, my back has put me back a few days (no pun intended). I reckon I won't back till next week at the very earliest.

Just trying to eat clean as I'm in the house and unable to walk around/move as freely as I would like so I am limited to what I can cook etc.

Anyway, here's a picture of my back doing that weird and wonderful thing! That's actually me standing as straight as I can. One of my lower discs has shifted a millimeter or so and is touching a nerve and is making the muscles in my back overcompensate.


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hope the back problem doesn't cause too much of an issue for you mate! I know the feeling of things like that getting in the way, albeit not quite as bad as that. The progress you've made sounds great.

Subbed.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

sammclean23 said:


> Hope the back problem doesn't cause too much of an issue for you mate! I know the feeling of things like that getting in the way, albeit not quite as bad as that. The progress you've made sounds great.
> 
> Subbed.


Cheers mate. Just got back to work Tuesday and went to the gym yesterday and did a light core and chest/tri workout. Actually loosened my back up quite a bit. Will update with pics at the weekend


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, I'm back on it after my back problems (thankfully). Got 4 weeks left to go on this cycle and desperately trying to get back to full fitness so I can push on and start lifting that little bit heavier. Starting documenting my workouts as I do them as well for accuracy, so here's a note from my weeks workouts:

*Sunday: Chest & Triceps*

DB Press (Flat Bench): 3x10 @ 22kg

DB Fly (Flat Bench): 3x8 @ 14kg

DB Skull Crushers: 2x12 1x8 @ 8kg

DB One-Arm Tricep Extension (Both arms) 4x12 @ 8kg

BB Skull Crusher: 3x12 @ 17.5kg

Fly Machine: 3x15 @ 52kg

Machine Tricep Extensions: 3x15 @ 41kg

Assisted Dips: 3x15 @ 41kg

Tricep Pulldown Confusion Set: Full set starting @ 17kg

DB Incline Press: 3x15 @ 20kg

DB Shrugs: 3x15 @ 20kg (Long holds at top)

Pump Bonus: DB Bicep Curls (knee assisted): 3x10 @ 10kg

*Tuesday: Back / Biceps*

DB Seated Rows: 3x10 @ 20kg

BB Bent-Over Rows (UH): 3x15 @ 20kg

BB Bent-Over Rows (OH): 3x15 @ 20kg

DB Hammer Curls 2x6 1x4 @ 14kg

DB Bicep Curls 1x16 2x12 @ 12kg

Diverging Seated Row: 1x10 @ 36kg, 1x8 @ 41kg, 1x10 @ 32kg, 2x20 @ 23kg

Assisted Solar Pull ups: 1x10 @ 64kg, 1x10 @ 54kg, 1x8 @ 45kg

Assisted Military Pull ups: 1x10 @ 64kg, 1x10 @ 54kg, 1x10 @ 45kg

Lat Pull Down: 3x10 @ 39kg

*Wednesday: Shoulders*

Incline DB Shoulder Press: 3x10 @ 16kg

Upright BB Rows: 3x10 @ 20kg

Upright BB Rows (narrow grip): 3x10 @ 20kg

DB Lat Raises (Bent arms): 3x10 @ 10kg

Front DB Shoulder Raises: 3x10 @ 10kg

Side DB Shoulder Raises: 3x8 @ 8kg

Bent-Over DB Lat Pulls: 2x8 @ 16kg

Bent-Over DB Fly Raises: 1x8 3x10 @ 8kg

DB Shoulder Shrugs: 1x12 @ 18kg, 1x12 @ 22kg, 1x12 @ 26kg, 1x12 @ 30kg

Smith Machine Presses: 3x8 @ 30kg, 1x7 @ 35kg

*Thursday: Chest, Tric & Bi *

DB Press (Flat Bench): 2x8 1x7 @ 24kg

DB Fly (Flat Bench): 3x8 @ 14kg

DB Skull Crushers: 1x10 1x7 1x4 @ 10kg

BB Skull Crusher: 3x12 @ 17.5kg

DB Incline Hammer Curls: 3x8 @ 12kg

DB Incline Outer Bicep Curls 1x3 @ 12kg, 2x6 @ 10kg

DB Incline Bicep Curls 3x8 @ 10kg

Fly Machine: 1x30 @ 52kg

Machine Tricep Extensions: 3x12 @ 45kg

DB One-Arm Tricep Extension (Both arms) 2x8 @ 8kg

---------

So, overall, I'm happy with this week - I'm more-or-less back on track in terms of where I was lifting. Back day was a little bit a dip back into things, but I think I have done very well. I decided on a bonus day today and I'm glad I went as I matched several PB's and I feel good for it.

Will get some photos up at the weekend as I (think) I'm starting to look a little different


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Finally got some new photos. These are stone-cold as this morning was legs and I've just had these taken by the gf:

Start of Week 9

Back: 

Back Flex: 

Side: 

Chest & Bicep: 

Standing Relaxed: 

Stood up straight for the lat spread on @R0BLET's advice. You can see the difference a little bit more.

I've also documented the (tiny) change in weight/measurements too:


*1st March 2013**Today**Difference**Weight:*79kg / 175 lbs83kg / 184 lbs*4kg / 9 lbs**BF%:*11%11%*0%**Chest (Under Armpit):*101 cm / 40"107 cm / 42.12"*6cm / 2.12"**Bicep (Flexed):*36cm / 14"37.5cm / 14.76"*1.5cm / 0.76"**Waist:*91cm / 36"91cm / 36"*0cm / 0"**Neck:*38cm / 15"40.5cm / 15.7"*2.5cm / 07"*

Here are some comparison pics:

Back: 

Back Flex: 

Side: 

Chest & Bicep: 

Standing Relaxed: 

Overall, I'm a little disappointed that I am not as big as I wanted to be, however, with the week off due to the back problems, I still don't think it's as bad as it could have been. Got 4 more weeks on cycle left and we'll see how I get on from there.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Looking good mate and defo growing!

Keep at it :beer:


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

R0BLET said:


> Looking good mate and defo growing!
> 
> Keep at it :beer:


Cheers @R0BLET. Looking forward to the next 4 weeks. Had a cracking chest & tri workout this morning too


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Just an update on this weeks workouts:

*Monday: Legs*

15 Min cardio on treadmill (burnt 186 cal apparently)

Quad Extensions: 3x10 @ 32kg

Ham Raises: 3x10 @ 29kg

Calf Raises (toes): 3x20 @ 66kg

Calf Raises (full foot): 3x20 @ 66kg

Hip Adduction: 3x15 @ 32kg | 3x15 @ 45kg

Hip Abduction: 3x15 @ 32kg | 3x15 @ 45kg

*Tuesday: Chest & Tri*

Converging Chest Press Machine: 1x10 @ 39kg | 2x10 @ 45kg

DB Press (Flat Bench): 3x10 @ 22kg

DB Fly (Flat Bench): 3x8 @ 14kg

DB Skull Crushers: 3x8 @ 8kg

BB Skull Crusher: 3x8 @ 20kg

Fly Machine: 1x30 @ 52kg

Machine Tricep Extensions: 2x15 1x11 @ 66kg

DB One-Arm Tricep Extension (Both arms) 1x10 2x8 @ 8kg

Smith BB Press: 3x8 @ 35kg | 1x7 @ 40kg

Tomorrow.... Back & Bi


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Little update...

Really got in the zone today. Flew though these and was ****ing sweat like I'd ran a marathon.

*Wednesday: Back / Biceps*

DB Seated Rows: 3x10 @ 20kg

BB Bent-Over Rows (UH): 3x15 @ 20kg

BB Bent-Over Rows (OH): 3x15 @ 20kg

DB Hammer Curls 1x5 @ 14kg, 2x7 @ 12kg

DB Bicep Curls 2x16 1x12 @ 12kg

BB Bicep Curls 3x12 @ 17.5g

Diverging Seated Row: 3x10 @ 32kg, 1x10 @ 32kg

Assisted Solar Pull ups: 1x8 @ 45kg, 1x8 @ 50kg

Assisted Military Pull ups: 1x8 @ 45kg, 1x8 @ 50kg

Lat Pull Down: 3x12 @ 39kg, 1x7 @ 52kg

Bonus

DB Shrugs: 3x15 @ 28kg -Trying to get my traps up as much as possible, so throwing these in every day (if I have time)

Preacher Arm Curls (Machine) 1x10 @ 27kg, 1x10 @ 23kg, 1x10 @ 18kg - These were slow movements with a big squeeze at the top to really fatigue my arms. Worked VERY well.


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Aup mate I am in!! Your running 1 of the cycles I am debating on. How do you feel its going? Your growing well btw.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Great opening post mate good read. Like the diet although for me cals would not be high, would want more carbs and protein. Maybe add a scoop whey with the PB sandwich?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Aup mate I am in!! Your running 1 of the cycles I am debating on. How do you feel its going? Your growing well btw.


Cheers mate. Tbh, its my first cycle, but I feel great for if. I didnt balloon as much as I thought I would on the dbol kicker but I noticed the test kick in around week 6. Since then I feel I've been gettinv more defined. My chest and shoulders in particular.

I'd defo recommend for a first cycle though, but I suspect I'll s

add something like Deca into my next one.


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Goosh said:


> Cheers mate. Tbh, its my first cycle, but I feel great for if. I didnt balloon as much as I thought I would on the dbol kicker but I noticed the test kick in around week 6. Since then I feel I've been gettinv more defined. My chest and shoulders in particular.
> 
> I'd defo recommend for a first cycle though, but I suspect I'll s
> 
> add something like Deca into my next one.


Do you nail your diet?? My bro in law is on a dbol only cycle and he seems to be putting on gains. He is only about 3 weeks in but at 60 a day.

I am really debating on it as a 1st cycle as alot of people seem to have similar for a 1st one so must be good.

You have much planned for the weekend?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Do you nail your diet?? My bro in law is on a dbol only cycle and he seems to be putting on gains. He is only about 3 weeks in but at 60 a day.
> 
> I am really debating on it as a 1st cycle as alot of people seem to have similar for a 1st one so must be good.
> 
> You have much planned for the weekend?


Yeah, I try to. Normally manage it, but I've been skipping the milk protein before bed as its simply awful.

I've had a bit of bloat on this cycle, but it could be carb bloat off the pasta I've had to sub in this week as I kept forgetting to buy brown rice.

Off out for a works end of year party tonight, then recovery lol. How's about you?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Great opening post mate good read. Like the diet although for me cals would not be high, would want more carbs and protein. Maybe add a scoop whey with the PB sandwich?


Cheers mate. Tbf, that's not a bad shout as I've been skipping the milk protein before bed as it tastes lime (what i imagine) wallpaper paste to taste like


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Goosh said:


> Yeah, I try to. Normally manage it, but I've been skipping the milk protein before bed as its simply awful.
> 
> I've had a bit of bloat on this cycle, but it could be carb bloat off the pasta I've had to sub in this week as I kept forgetting to buy brown rice.
> 
> Off out for a works end of year party tonight, then recovery lol. How's about you?


Maybe thats an issue, have you replaced it with anything? You losing a bot pro there.

I can't forget my brown rice, I actually like it lol.

End of year party?? I am not doing much really mate, chilling, gardening and BBQ I reckon. Might have a couple of beers tomorrow night aswell.

You trained today?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Maybe thats an issue, have you replaced it with anything? You losing a bot pro there.
> 
> I can't forget my brown rice, I actually like it lol.
> 
> ...


I'm starting to love brown rice, it's only taken me a year to figure out the best way to cook it (takes bloody ages). End Of Financial Year party. Basically, a free bar with the staff to celebrate year-on-year profits (we're only about 50 staff, started with 2 of us 5 years ago, so it's a great night). Ended up in the strippers with a few of the lasses from work. Was "interesting" lol.

Did Shoulders yesterday morning - had proper bubble shoulders by the end but forgot to take a pic after my shower 

*Friday - Shoulders*

DB Shoulders Press: 1x10 2x7 @ 20kg

BB Upright Row (Wide grip): 3x15 @ 20kg

BB Upright Row (Narrow grip): 3x15 @ 20kg

DB Lat Raise Fly: 2x10 1x7 @ 10kg

DB Front Raises: 3x10 (each arm) @ 10kg

DB Side Raises: 3x8 @ 8kg

DB Bent Over Lat/Delt Pulls: 3x8 @ 14kg

DB Bent Over Lat Fly Raises: 3x8 @ 6kg

DB Shoulder Shrugs: 1x10 @ 18kg, 1x10 @ 22kg, 1x10 @ 26kg, 1x10 @ 30kg

Converging Shoulder Press Machine: 1x10 2x6 @ 32kg

Meant to be doing some training today but I've just polished off the gf's chicken kebab she bought me for coming in last night (bless her, I'm in the bad books for not getting in till 5am lol), so I might make today a cheat day. MIght have a bbq myself - glorious weather up here.


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Goosh said:


> I'm starting to love brown rice, it's only taken me a year to figure out the best way to cook it (takes bloody ages). End Of Financial Year party. Basically, a free bar with the staff to celebrate year-on-year profits (we're only about 50 staff, started with 2 of us 5 years ago, so it's a great night). Ended up in the strippers with a few of the lasses from work. Was "interesting" lol.
> 
> Did Shoulders yesterday morning - had proper bubble shoulders by the end but forgot to take a pic after my shower
> 
> ...


Bloody hell you work alot on 1 thing. My shoulders would be dead after that lol.

Yeah have a cheat day, why not. My BBQ will have to wait the weather is sh!t  You got much else planned for today??


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Bloody hell you work alot on 1 thing. My shoulders would be dead after that lol.
> 
> Yeah have a cheat day, why not. My BBQ will have to wait the weather is sh!t  You got much else planned for today??


Yeah, everyone baulks at the shoulder routine when I show them it. It's heavy and the only day (other than legs) that I train in isolation. I've always wanted big shoulders, like the sticky-out, separation at the top from the bicep type of look. That routine is helping out massively I think, and I warm up good and proper everytime with some rotation moves (from P90X funnily enough), so not done any damage either.

I'm defo in the bad books with the gf and she's in teh garden soaking up the rays, so I might just sit on the PC, play some World Of Warcraft (yep, I'm one of those lol) and then watch the toon probably get smashed by West Ham


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

goldenballs23 said:


> you been nailing this diet every single day with same foods, how you cooking your rice?


Give or take, yeah. Have the odd cheat day (normally a Saturday), but certainly have everything from 05:20 to 15:30 on the button.

I cook my brown rice in a pan. Chuck a cup full of brown rice in an empty pan, add two cups of water and stir. Boil on full gas, cover with lid and leave for 25-ish minutes (until the water has boiled away). Give it a second stir when the water is nearly gone. Done.

That one cup will do two meals (roughly). Depends on the size of the cup of course.


----------



## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

Goosh said:


> Give or take, yeah. Have the odd cheat day (normally a Saturday), but certainly have everything from 05:20 to 15:30 on the button.
> 
> I cook my brown rice in a pan. Chuck a cup full of brown rice in an empty pan, add two cups of water and stir. Boil on full gas, cover with lid and leave for 25-ish minutes (until the water has boiled away). Give it a second stir when the water is nearly gone. Done.
> 
> That one cup will do two meals (roughly). Depends on the size of the cup of course.


okay cool i was thinking of swapping my pasta for rice

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/224573-toilet-wind-issues-new-diet-ffs.html

would you put your gains down to your diet or gear?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

goldenballs23 said:


> okay cool i was thinking of swapping my pasta for rice
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/224573-toilet-wind-issues-new-diet-ffs.html
> 
> would you put your gains down to your diet or gear?


Probably the 60% to the gear if I am honest. I was eating "ok" before (same stuff, just not a lot of it) and had made some nice gains over a longer period, but I think it's a combination of both really. One thing I've always taken away from researching my cycle was "eat, eat, eat", so making sure I'm doing both has probably helped hand-in-hand really.

Who knows, had I not had the gear, but started on this diet I might have made some good gains as I have more enjoy to train harder as a result

As for you swapping the pasta for rice, I was using white pasta as I hate brown (too sticky), so I'm not sure if you would get much of a benefit from it, but overall it is a better clean carb to eat and if you like eating it, then go for it.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, I'm off out to the lakes for a few days so training is paused until Tuesday night when I come back. Gonna have a mini-session with my dumbells in the house (they are only 10kg maximuscle things), then after that it's nowt.

I'm gonna be one of those guys and make a chicken dinner for the car though :0


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Quick picture update,

*Week 11*

Back:

Back Flex: 

Side: 

Chest & Biceps:

Relaxed Standing:

Been hammering the sessions in, and hit personal best on the bench press yesterday with 3x4 @ 50kg so I'm well happy with that. Such a shame I can't get on the smith that much in the mornings as I absolutely love it.


----------



## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Well done mate just been reading through this arms are noticeable that they have grown aswell as everywhere else, great gains man :thumbup1: keep training hard.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Youngstarz said:


> Well done mate just been reading through this arms are noticeable that they have grown aswell as everywhere else, great gains man :thumbup1: keep training hard.


Thanks mate, appreciate it.

Hoping to get some photos up today or tomorrow as I finished the cycle last week and starting PCT next week.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, here it is. Week 15.

I had originally decided on an 12 week cycle, but 'cause of my back problems I ended up dragging it out over 14 weeks. I first pinned in Monday 4th March 2013 with my last pin being on the 1st June 2013.

My thoughts on the last 15 weeks:

*Diet*

Nailed it to the best of my ability. Majority of the time I've dropped the milk protein at nights as it was such a chore to drink and I was generally shattered by the time it came to making it. I cheated on weekend meals a fair bit, but put in bonus Sundays at the gym out of guilt/need to be there! But weekday meals was religiously prepared at 4:45 in the morning and eaten at work despite the ridicule 

*Training*

I tried to stick to my routines originally posted, but I ended up mixing them up quite a bit - same routines, some additional workouts added in here and there but I never stuck to the same days unfortunately. I also did legs about 4 days out of the 14 weeks too  However, I have played football every week for the last 4 weeks to compensate 

*Weight Improvements*

Not as big as I would like, but I have seen some vast improvements in abilities to lift and my form when lifting (not struggling as much for example).

*Stats*

Here are the updated stats from the beginning.


*1st March 2013**Today**Difference**Weight:*79kg / 175 lbs81.65kg / 180 lbs*2.65kg / 5 lbs**BF%:*11%7%*-4%**Chest (Under Armpit):*101 cm / 40"107 cm / 42.12"*6cm / 2.12"**Bicep (Flexed):*36cm / 14"37cm / 14.5"*1cm / 0.5"**Waist:*91cm / 36"89cm / 35.03"*-2cm / -1.03"**Neck:*38cm / 15"39cm / 15.3"*1cm / 0.3"*

Overall, I'm pleased with my chest and arms. I also know that *my body fat is completely wrong*, but I have been using the same calipers and measurement chart throughout and it says I've dropped bodyfat significantly. If I was to guess, I would say I have went from something like 15% to 11% as opposed to 11% to 7%. Unfortunately I have no alternative way of measuring this.

As for my "size" improvements, I am not that bothered by them not showing that much improvement as I feel much tighter and much harder. I feel like I have been on a cutting cycle as opposed to a bulking one lol.

And finally...

*The Comparison Photos*

I've tried to keep the same shots and angles throughout to show maximum difference.

Back: 

Back Flex / Lat Spread: 

Side: 

Chest & Bicep: 

Relaxed Standing: 

*Takeaway*

I've enjoyed my first ever cycle. It was a test to my own mental staying power as I am known for giving up on things before I finish them, so I am very happy that I have stuck to it and with the improvements I have made. Could I have tried harder? Probably. Could I have gotten bigger? Definitely. Do I feel let down? Not at all.

I start PCT in a week, and I have some DNP ready once my PCT is over to try to show the abs off I can now feel under my blubber. Overall, I am very, very happy with my progress. The start of MANY to come I imagine 

Thanks to everyone who partook in my journal:

@R0BLET, @sammclean23, @paulandabbi, @Suprakill4, @goldenballs23, @Youngstarz


----------



## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

Goosh said:


> Well, here it is. Week 15.
> 
> I had originally decided on an 12 week cycle, but 'cause of my back problems I ended up dragging it out over 14 weeks. I first pinned in Monday 4th March 2013 with my last pin being on the 1st June 2013.
> 
> ...


I'd say your bf% is around 15-16% if I was to guess and I have no idea how you have gained 5lbs and lost an inch on your waist yet gained half an inch on your arms.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

goldenballs23 said:


> I'd say your bf% is around 15-16% if I was to guess and I have no idea how you have gained 5lbs and lost an inch on your waist yet gained half an inch on your arms.


You're probably right re: bodyfat mate. Got no-one else I can really gauge it against, so took a pot guess 

As for the weights & measurements, I have no clue either - but they've been measured with the same stuff and stringently so not a clue. Possibly my chest as that as come on loads, but I doubt it's carrying 5 lbs


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

I cannot see the attachments for some reason mate?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> I cannot see the attachments for some reason mate?


DO they work if you click on em? Sometimes the thumbnails work for me, other times they don't. Let me know and I'll re-upload them if needs be mate.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator


Hopefully they should work now mate.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Goosh said:


> Hopefully they should work now mate.


Nope lol. Ill try on tapatalk instead of phone Internet browser.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Can see them mate and I would be happy with then gains good work. All I would suggest is to learn the bodybuilding poses as they will show the specific muscle group off much much better. What's the plans now than mate? Keep up the good work.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Can see them mate and I would be happy with then gains good work. All I would suggest is to learn the bodybuilding poses as they will show the specific muscle group off much much better. What's the plans now than mate? Keep up the good work.


Cheers mate. Appreciate the comments.

Overall I'm happy with everything - the poses I have not got a clue about so you'll have to accept my apologies on that one lol.

ATM I'm looking to come off cycle and see how my body reacts (what with it being my first one) and do on a DNP cut to see how I fair. There is no doubt in my mind that I will go back on cycle, but by then I will be in a much better position to choose the right compounds and plan it even better next time. I'm doing it for myself mainly and not looking to compete, but then again, never say never.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Goosh said:


> Cheers mate. Appreciate the comments.
> 
> Overall I'm happy with everything - the poses I have not got a clue about so you'll have to accept my apologies on that one lol.
> 
> ATM I'm looking to come off cycle and see how my body reacts (what with it being my first one) and do on a DNP cut to see how I fair. There is no doubt in my mind that I will go back on cycle, but by then I will be in a much better position to choose the right compounds and plan it even better next time. I'm doing it for myself mainly and not looking to compete, but then again, never say never.


If there's EVER a piece of advice I can give you then it would be do not cut yet!!!!!!!!!!!! I spent the first two years of training going from bulk to cut bulk to cut and what a fcuming waste of time. You don't have enough muscle mass to look amazing when really lean and it is a complete waste of time that can be spent making gains and I mean that in the nicest possible way because I want to help you. Please mate don't make the mistake I made. Gain for another couple of years, keep an eye on bodyfat to not let it get out of control, the more muscle you get the leaner it is to stay lean IMO!!!

Get size on first!!!!


----------



## sammclean23 (Aug 16, 2012)

Well done mate. Good on you for sticking to something and running with it. Now you know much more for next time.

As for cutting, he's right. I thought it was a good idea last year after making some decent gains on 5x5, wish I didn't though. It just made me look thin more than anything.

Was a good read, good luck for the future


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> If there's EVER a piece of advice I can give you then it would be do not cut yet!!!!!!!!!!!! I spent the first two years of training going from bulk to cut bulk to cut and what a fcuming waste of time. You don't have enough muscle mass to look amazing when really lean and it is a complete waste of time that can be spent making gains and I mean that in the nicest possible way because I want to help you. Please mate don't make the mistake I made. Gain for another couple of years, keep an eye on bodyfat to not let it get out of control, the more muscle you get the leaner it is to stay lean IMO!!!
> 
> Get size on first!!!!


Cheers for the advice. Always willing to listen to those who have been there and done it.

Whilst the photos don't do me too much justice, appearing thin when leaner was a fear and I obviously want to retain what mass I have put on. You've got me thinking now. Lol

What would you recommend as a programme to keep mass building but lowering bf? I'm thinking a slightly cleaner bulk (less carbs) but above the calorie deficient line. I've got a while to plan something like that tbh.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Goosh said:


> Cheers for the advice. Always willing to listen to those who have been there and done it.
> 
> Whilst the photos don't do me too much justice, appearing thin when leaner was a fear and I obviously want to retain what mass I have put on. You've got me thinking now. Lol
> 
> What would you recommend as a programme to keep mass building but lowering bf? I'm thinking a slightly cleaner bulk (less carbs) but above the calorie deficient line. I've got a while to plan something like that tbh.


Would definitely go for a clean bulk mate with all clean food. Ever though if getting a coach to plan everything for you? It's the best decision I ever made in my quest to get a better physique.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Would definitely go for a clean bulk mate with all clean food. Ever though if getting a coach to plan everything for you? It's the best decision I ever made in my quest to get a better physique.


You're not the first I've heard say that. Just comes down to cash atm 

Will defo look into a cleaner bulk. I've already dumped the rice from my meals and I'm noticing less bloat, so I can defo cope with that route.

Cheers for the advice mate, you've got the old nogging working away now.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Goosh said:


> You're not the first I've heard say that. Just comes down to cash atm
> 
> Will defo look into a cleaner bulk. I've already dumped the rice from my meals and I'm noticing less bloat, so I can defo cope with that route.
> 
> Cheers for the advice mate, you've got the old nogging working away now.


If there becomes a time where you can afford it then I really would reccommend it. Takes all the stress out of bodybuilding for me, and I get exactly the gains I ask for my target as he caters the diet/training to suit what your after.

Just trust me mate do not waste time dieting its such a pointless exercise and I'm talking from experience. I only wish someone was there to tell me the same for my first two years training.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Double Bi poses is a vast difference IMO mate, Well Done! :beer:

So long as your happy that's the most important thing.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

R0BLET said:


> Double Bi poses is a vast difference IMO mate, Well Done! :beer:
> 
> So long as your happy that's the most important thing.


Cheers mate. Just showed the lads at work and they were pretty impressed with it too, so had quite a nice ego boost


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Cheers mate. Just showed the lads at work and they were pretty impressed with it too, so had quite a nice ego boost


Nothing beats an ego boost from the people around you mate, nice isnt it!


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Can definitely see a difference between start and finish, well done, but was this a bulking or cutting cycle?

If bulking, then are you sure you were eating enough during your cycle??? I would've thought you'd gain more than 2.5kg in 14 weeks


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Can definitely see a difference between start and finish, well done, but was this a bulking or cutting cycle?
> 
> If bulking, then are you sure you were eating enough during your cycle??? I would've thought you'd gain more than 2.5kg in 14 weeks


Cheers for the compliments mate. It was meant to be a bulking cycle tbh, but I think I've literally substituted excess fat for muscle.

I was nailing my breakfast, post-workout shake and two dinners a day religiously. The milk protein before bed was the one I skipped if anything. I could always eat a lot of food, but this is the first time I've tried anything like this, so it was an interesting experience.

I've been monitoring my body fat with calipers and my weight and whilst I've stayed roughly around the same weight my body fat has dropped considerably (same measuring method but ultimately incorrect), so I've worked out that my lean body mass has improved by about 12lbs. It's not ideal, but I feel a lot tighter and bigger, so I can't complain.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Cheers for the compliments mate. It was meant to be a bulking cycle tbh, but I think I've literally substituted excess fat for muscle.
> 
> I was nailing my breakfast, post-workout shake and two dinners a day religiously. The milk protein before bed was the one I skipped if anything. I could always eat a lot of food, but this is the first time I've tried anything like this, so it was an interesting experience.
> 
> I've been monitoring my body fat with calipers and my weight and whilst I've stayed roughly around the same weight my body fat has dropped considerably (same measuring method but ultimately incorrect), so I've worked out that my lean body mass has improved by about 12lbs. It's not ideal, but I feel a lot tighter and bigger, so I can't complain.


Wasn't sure how'd you were going to take my comment, glad you didn't think I was trying to say your cycle wasn't great because your only gained a couple kgs on the scales, as you've definitely gained a lot of lbm. Next time you bulk, I would up your calories by at least 500+


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Wasn't sure how'd you were going to take my comment, glad you didn't think I was trying to say your cycle wasn't great because your only gained a couple kgs on the scales, as you've definitely gained a lot of lbm. Next time you bulk, I would up your calories by at least 500+


Hehe, no worries mate. Totally missed your post until yesterday. Everything went in the right direction apart from the weight, so I agree that increasing them is definitely the way to go.

I think I'm gonna go on a clean bulk for a few weeks and improve my cardio a litle (was pathetic in football last night), then see what I need.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Stopped updating this after that last bulk, but just done a comparison photo and thought I would share:



That is Jan 2013 vs Nov 2013 and a result of a 2nd bulk (Test-E, Deca & Dbol kicker). Been feeling a bit small since I've come of cycle (2nd week of PCT now), so seeing this has perked me right up.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Just spotted ya liked my update @paulandabbi. Long time no post, hope you're doing well.


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Goosh said:


> Just spotted ya liked my update @paulandabbi. Long time no post, hope you're doing well.


Aup mate, yeah doing good thanks! How are you?


----------



## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Subbed mate. Good difference since March, well done :thumb:


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Aup mate, yeah doing good thanks! How are you?


Yeah mate, flying with training atm, busy with work, usual stuff.

Glad to hear you're keeping well mate. Making progress with training much?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

lee85 said:


> Subbed mate. Good difference since March, well done :thumb:


Cheers mate


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Goosh said:


> Yeah mate, flying with training atm, busy with work, usual stuff.
> 
> Glad to hear you're keeping well mate. Making progress with training much?


Not been training but I am back with @solidcecil and will be back on it tomorrow!!

You going to be updating this from now on?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

paulandabbi said:


> Not been training but I am back with @solidcecil and will be back on it tomorrow!!
> 
> You going to be updating this from now on?


Glad you're back at it mate. You were making good progress.

Best of luck mate


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Great work mate! Huge difference.

Now get some Tren!


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Fcuking great work mate!! I'm really glad you took my advice and stopped yo-yo dieting!!!!!! Told you it would work out well. Keep bulking. Get more size. Much more. Then cut and see your nice muscle gains. Simple.

Well done mate. Credit where it's due. Impressed.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

R0BLET said:


> Great work mate! Huge difference.
> 
> Now get some Tren!


Cheers mate. Dubious of Tren (short-tempered already), but sorely tempted. Absolutely loved Deca!


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Fcuking great work mate!! I'm really glad you took my advice and stopped yo-yo dieting!!!!!! Told you it would work out well. Keep bulking. Get more size. Much more. Then cut and see your nice muscle gains. Simple.
> 
> Well done mate. Credit where it's due. Impressed.


Cheer man, means a lot. Defo glad I bulked again, so cheers for that advice. I'm about 22% BF atm, so wouldn't mind shifting a little of it, so I reckon I will go on maintenance over Christmas then take it from there.


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Great progress mate, really noticeable on delts and chest.

Keep at it


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Goosh said:


> Cheer man, means a lot. Defo glad I bulked again, so cheers for that advice. I'm about 22% BF atm, so wouldn't mind shifting a little of it, so I reckon I will go on maintenance over Christmas then take it from there.


Maintain??? Why! Maintain means making zero progress with either muscle gain or fat loss so completely wasted time IMO. Spend the time still gaining maybe making nice lean gains???

Your welcome. Hear tk help whenever I can.


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Maintain??? Why! Maintain means making zero progress with either muscle gain or fat loss so completely wasted time IMO. Spend the time still gaining maybe making nice lean gains???
> 
> Your welcome. Hear tk help whenever I can.


I see your point, just need a break from eating 4k calories a day. lol. Lean giams is what I was thinking. Dropped down to 2,600 this week and noticing a bit of tightness as some bloat is going etc.

Once I'm off PCT I might go fat bastard mode. Lol.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Cheers mate. Dubious of Tren (short-tempered already), but sorely tempted. Absolutely loved Deca!


Tren will blow deca away!

Amazing stuff.


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Suprakill4 said:


> Fcuking great work mate!! I'm really glad you took my advice and stopped yo-yo dieting!!!!!! Told you it would work out well. Keep bulking. Get more size. Much more. Then cut and see your nice muscle gains. Simple.
> 
> Well done mate. Credit where it's due. Impressed.


WTF!! This bad back has made you be nice to people lmao.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

paulandabbi said:


> WTF!! This bad back has made you be nice to people lmao.


Haha I'm always nice. Lol.


----------



## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Suprakill4 said:


> Haha I'm always nice. Lol.


I actually lol'd when I read this. Told Abbi what you said and she laughed too lmao.


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

paulandabbi said:


> I actually lol'd when I read this. Told Abbi what you said and she laughed too lmao.


Haha I'm selectively nice  .

Any training today goosh?


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Haha I'm selectively nice  .
> 
> Any training today goosh?


Yeah mate, still keeping up my training intensity and routine.

Did back and biceps yesterday. Nice and tight from tbat. Chucked in an HIIT treadmill warm up and felt good for it. Then 5-a-sid after work to finish me off.

Had to skip gym this morning for an early meeting. 

Gonna make up for it with a legs/core smash tomorrow and do my shoulders on saturday instead


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

R0BLET said:


> Tren will blow deca away!
> 
> Amazing stuff.


Might look into it, just want the ability to get off it as quick possible if the bad sides rear their head.

What was your cycle mate? Reading loads on high test/low tren vs. low test/high tren


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Just spotted ya liked my update @paulandabbi. Long time no post, hope you're doing well.


Nicely nicely goosh. Good delt gains


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Might look into it, just want the ability to get off it as quick possible if the bad sides rear their head.
> 
> What was your cycle mate? Reading loads on high test/low tren vs. low test/high tren


Tren ace it is then 

Well I only ran Tren ace in my last 6 week blast and that was tops of 300mg each week, but it's brilliant stuff.

Tbh I think with Tren it allows you to get away with diet strictness as it's that good lol

I started another 6 week blast Tuesday  :beer:

Edit - regards the low Vrs high, I believe @Sambuca is doing this and @ClarkyBoy ATM..... Could advise better mate


----------



## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Goosh said:


> Might look into it, just want the ability to get off it as quick possible if the bad sides rear their head.
> 
> What was your cycle mate? Reading loads on high test/low tren vs. low test/high tren


Running 750mg Tren E vs 300mg Test E at the minute on an 8-10 week recomp, personally flying and feeling top of the world at the minute mate. Also got 750mg of Mast E in there as well.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

ive always run high test or equal test/tren i.e 750mg testp/tren a

so quite interested to see how i get on with this.

idea is as tren binds to receptors before test you have less free test about and create a super high androgen environment.

tren shoulders incoming


----------



## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

Cheers lads, something to think on about


----------

