# IGF-1 Deficiency



## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

Hi,

My 'Lab Rat' is IGF-1 Deficient due to an Iron Overload condition called Hemochromatosis, the iron overload condition has induced Liver Cirrhosis in the Lab Rat which has resulted in IGF-1 Levels that, in human terms would correlate to that of an 80 - 90 year old.

I'm trying to assess the therapeutic benefits of IGF-1 treatment to Cirrhotic Lab Rats.

I need to identify a reliable source of Peptides who supply high grade IGF-1 LR3 however most sites that supply IGF-1 I've focussed on have mixed reviews and the only peptide source that doesn't seem to have negative feedback in 'Tom's' however a prospective purchaser requires a referral first.

Any assistance on how I can be referred or any other reliable peptide sources would be welcomed.

Much appreciated,

TC

P.S PeptidesUK don't supply IGF-1 LR3


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have no idea what you are talking about and why you feel the need to not just come out and say you want IGF-1LR3 but having low IGF supplementing with IGF-1LR3 will do nothing to raise natural levels.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2014)

Lab rat=op


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Seems there's a couple of threads started recently asking scientific-like questions, that appear odd.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Does liver cirrhosis normally cause one to become IGF1 deficient?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Does liver cirrhosis normally cause one to become IGF1 deficient?


i have no idea i doubt it though when you look at the biology of IGF


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> i have no idea i doubt it though when you look at the biology of IGF


Wouldn't his rat benefit more from HGH rather than IGF ?


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## cookie1983 (Jan 6, 2012)

it has taken the op 6 years to make 1 post lol well done :001_tt2:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ewen said:


> Wouldn't his rat benefit more from HGH rather than IGF ?


It would benefit his rat far more using either GH or GHRP/GHRH peptides


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

Ok, apologies for the non standard introduction, first of all as Pscarb has implied, I'm looking for this for the following reasons -

I have the most aggressive form of Haemochromatosis anybody is likely to encounter - Haemochromatosis being a genetic condition that loads excessive amounts of iron into an individual who has the associated genetic mutations, an otherwise normal individuals genetic make up ensure they only store the necessary iron required for homeostasis.

At 24 years of age I had Heart Failure, this led to the following diagnoses -

Dilated Cardiomyapathy

Liver Cirrhosis

Type 1 Diabetes

Hypopituitarism - LH, FSH and recently diagnosed with GH Deficiency

Quite a few other conditions but irrelevant for this topic

OK, so I'm on Saizen Somatropin 1.4 mg which I believe equates to just over 4IU - correct me if I'm wrong

My IGF-1 tests results which are an indicator for GH health at diagnosis were 5.6 and 6.5 mmol, the ref range for 30 - 60 year old men is 13 - 37 mmol so essentially my levels at diagnosis were less than the half of a worst off 60 year olds in terms of GH/Igf-1 secretion, I've copies of documentation that suggest that my GH/IGF-1 levels are that of a 90 year old.

So basically the excess iron has damaged my Pit Gland which I'm being treated for at approx 4IUs of GH however my IGF-1 levels have only risen to 9.6 mmol which suggests that my Liver is not responding and my Endocrinologist believe I have secondary IGF-1 deficiency due to Liver Cirrhosis.

Liver Cirrhosis is the Permanent scarring of Liver Tissue which makes the hepatic tissues impermeable, its irreversible and commonly leads to Liver Cancer within a 3rd of patients within 5 years quite commonly resulting in death, its my understanding that GH Receptors cells are found on the Liver as are IGF-1 secreting cells therefore as per my Endocrinologist and my Gastroenterologist, the low IGF-1 is either Receptor related,


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

oops -

IGF-1 cell related, an issue with the signalling between the two or a combination of all.

To sum up, my body is GH and IGF-1 Deficient which isn't responsive to medication. There is a medication that may address the problem however its only approved for Children and therefore I would need funding and approval which is unlikely in addition due to the fact the medication is like gold dust due to a manufacturing issue, the brand name of the product is Increlex, a synthetic form of IGF-1.

http://www.increlex.com/patient-treatment-of-severe-primary-igfd.asp

The only alternative is if I can find a reliable source of good quality synthetic IGF-1 or LR3, I appreciate the latter is an analogue and thus not identical but my research suggests that LR3 could be just as effective however I'm looking for some advice hence the post.

This isnt a vanity project, I'm very symptomatic, I feel like my IGF-1 Ref range, little Strength, little energy, slow wound healing etc, etc, this is purely for therapeutic means.

Apologies to my lack of posts in the last 6 years, I didn't recall I was a member until I tried to re-register the other day, poor memory is a common symptom of someone with IGF-1/GH Def.

PScarb, I'm aware won't be able to raise IGF-1 naturally, hence why I referred to LR3, let me know if there is an oversight on my part. Also, would be keen for you to expand on how Liver Cirrhosis is unlikely to cause IGF-1 Deficiency and the associated mechanisms that support this - thanks.

Ewen, hopefully the above explains why more GH if pointless, let me know if you want me to expand.

Cookie1983 - well done for your contribution.

Look forward to hearing some constructive feedback, look closely Cookie you might learn something.

Finally, sheepish intro was due to lack of knowledge about how these BB forums are monitored and how I can incriminate myself.


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

and one last thing.....

Excess iron sits in your organs and glands and damages them, Its believed the damage to be related to the oxidative stress/free radicals.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

from a medical stand point i cannot help mate as i am not a medical practitioner of any type, what i can say is that IGF-1LR3 will not raise natural levels of IGF-1 but peptides will as they release your own GH but then i am not sure if your deficiency is because you produce less or just release less GH...


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## johnnymctrance (Nov 21, 2012)

Would tren help your lab rat??


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> from a medical stand point i cannot help mate as i am not a medical practitioner of any type, what i can say is that IGF-1LR3 will not raise natural levels of IGF-1 but peptides will as they release your own GH but then i am not sure if your deficiency is because you produce less or just release less GH...


Is there any use for IGF-1LR3 so, as it does nothing for natural levels. I read a few journals when people site shoot it pre wo?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Galaxy said:


> Is there any use for IGF-1LR3 so, as it does nothing for natural levels. I read a few journals when people site shoot it pre wo?


yes they do and i used to, to will give a pump a fukcing huge one but it uses different pathways to what natural IGF does to create muscle tissue, it could be perceived that it could push nutrients into the muscle post workout but i have no data to support that...


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> yes they do and i used to, to will give a pump a fukcing huge one but it uses different pathways to what natural IGF does to create muscle tissue, it could be perceived that it could push nutrients into the muscle post workout but i have no data to support that...


Wouldn't insulin be a better/cheaper option? Did you find it as effective/better as slin in a cycle? Only upside I can see would be you wouldn't store fat as easily as you would using slin?


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate a concrete medical response can't be provided on the aforementioned subject matter.

With regards to the purpose of my posts, basically, I just wanted some advice on IGF-1 LR3 on whether I was making a mistake purchasing LR3 to see similar properties/results of that of natural IGF-1 and secondly, if you could recommend a reliable pep source ideally Tom's, I appreciate this requires a referral/recommendation Pscarb, maybe you can assist with this.

Just to clarify -

HGH or a precursor are no good to me, my IGF-1 secreting cells are permanently damaged due to Liver Cirrhosis as are the Pit cells that secrete HGH, the small amount of cells that are working are overcompensating on 4IU of Pharma HGH, its not working, my Endo has confirmed this.

Many believe HGHs only function is to trigger the Liver to produce IGF-1 and has no direct Hyperplasia properties, the magic is in the IGF-1 and the way it binds to cell receptors.

I'm not trying to raise my natural HGH OR IGF-1 levels, my Pituitary and Liver damage has put a stop to any response to precursor peps/hormones, the cells are dead therefore attempts are to raise it are futile.

I'm looking for a reliable source of IGF LR3 that I can subq, LR3 is an analogue of natural IGF-1 which is more potent than natural IGF-1 as its been molecularly engineered so that it doesn't bind to IGF Binding Proteins, Binding Proteins reduce the potency of natural IGF-1 preventing it from interacting with IGF-1 receptors as well as if it was otherwise unbound - in short, some gifted bio-chemist/engineer has saw the benefits and drawbacks of IGF-1 and decided to make their own version minus the drawbacks i.e. removing the binding properties which inhibit it and retaining the positive ones.

A very good article in my opinion which articulates a lot better than I do above

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/igf-1-and-long-igf-1-lr3-is-there-a-difference-us-peptides-discusses-190362251.html

Hopefully someone can assist - thanks for listening.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

What's allegedly wrong with your Pituitary Gland?

Are you a member of Dats Forum?

For what reason do you have Hemochromatosis?

I see you say you live in Brum....but you post in an american style.......


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

I have hypopituitarism which is the deficiency of one or more Hormones secreted from the Pituitary Gland, I'm GH, LH and FSH deficient all caused by the excessive iron loading effects of Hemochromatosis.

You can't catch Hemchromatosis, it is a genetic condition where by those effected inherit genetic mutations from both parents, fundamentally, the condition loads excessive iron from the individuals diet, the turn off switch essentially is not working and permits more absorption in your GI tract, the iron has to be stored somewhere and therefore it is stored in the tissues and organs of the affected individual i.e. Liver, Heart, Pancreas, Pit Glands etc. It's hypothesised by many, that over time the iron builds up, causing oxidative stress via the production of free radicals. Treatment is via venesections i.e. giving blood, you don't excrete iron and iron loss via exfoliation is minuscule.

There is no 'alleged' about the above, I have no 'agenda' as such as, I'm just someone who has had poor quality of life over the last 10 years which could have somewhat been avoided if my initial Endocrinologist i.e. the hormone specialist had definitively tested my Pit Gland which he implied he had. Furthermore, there are Hemochromatosis and Hypopit groups on Facebook that I'm heavily involved in, feel free to contact the moderators if you're concerned about my credentials/intentions.

Lablaster - I am not particularly familiar with with Dats forum, I have saw it referenced on a number of occasions with regard to Tom's peptides however conversely I have saw posts stating Tom's Peps are only accessible via a referral. Please fill me in. Also, I'd be interested to know how my style of posts is that of an American, I just write in paragraphs like everyone else, coincidentally I do actually live on the doorstep of an area called Hollywood which is on the Brum/Worcester border.

Thanks.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@aqualung

Your thoughts....?


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

> OK, so I'm on Saizen Somatropin 1.4 mg which I believe equates to just over 4IU - correct me if I'm wrong
> 
> My IGF-1 tests results which are an indicator for GH health at diagnosis were 5.6 and 6.5 mmol, the ref range for 30 - 60 year old men is 13 - 37 mmol so essentially my levels at diagnosis were less than the half of a worst off 60 year olds in terms of GH/Igf-1 secretion, I've copies of documentation that suggest that my GH/IGF-1 levels are that of a 90 year old.


why have you not confronted your endo about this?

the standard treatment for haemochromatosis is phlebotomy (give blood) -there is also a tablet you can take to stop iron absorption , if you have hypopituitarism then your endo should be replacing the missing hormones to within range for your age so as i said above you should be asking/confronting them as you are already in the system - not trying to sort it out yourself.

*print out the ref ranges and ask why the endo is not following them

http://www.homerton.nhs.uk/our-services/pathology/guide-to-laboratory-tests-and-directory/biochemistry-tests/insulin-like-growth-factor-1-igf-1-/


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

@aqualung

I have stated previously that I am being treated by an Endo for GH Deficiency, I'm on 1.4 mgs of Saizen Somatropin manufactured by Meryck Serono which equates to over 4IU, I've also previously stated this has only slightly improved my IGF-1 levels i.e. I'm no where near my age ref range, my Endo and my Gastroenterologist both believe the scarring of my Liver has damaged the Liver cells that produce IGF-1, the slight raise in IGF-1 is likely down to the few healthy IGF-1 producing cells overcompensating, this overcompensation may be counter productive though in the long term. Therefore I need a synthetic IGF-1 or bio similar pep that can provide the lacking IGF-1 in the blood stream, essentially the low IGF-1 I produce is prematurely aging me hence why I'm trying to find a reliable IGF-LR3 source - I couldn't give a sh1te about other Peps or Hormones tbh, I'm only interested in anything IGF-1 related. I have also previously confirmed that there is no NHS based IGF-1 treatment approved for Cirrhosis, there is a synthetic IGF-1 form out there manufactured by Increlex for Children with small stature/dwarfism but it is not approved for adults therefore it is unlikely it will be funded or approved for me as confirmed by my Endo, added to which there is a global shortage of Increlex due to a manufacturing issue, sounds crazy I know but all the above can be found on the web if you look hard enough.

I had a venesection yesterday at Northampton General Hospital, I work here Mon - Friday at a v large Financial organisation - B---laycard, however as my Location confirms, I'm a Brummy, I'm well aware of all treatments available to me, a common misconception in life is that society thinks treatable means curable and non-symptomatic, that is not the case I guarantee.

I'm very familiar with the homerton NHS ref ranges for IGF-1, I've quoted them on a number of occasions however I do get some funny looks when I show practitioners the document as the age ref ranges go up to 125 years old - where did they get igf-1 test subjects for individuals over 90 years of age, my guessing is that the doc is in part, computer estimated.

Just to add, if you compare my initial IGF-1 test result at diagnosis, I was 5.6, the document confirms the extremely low end for 125 year old males i.e. the 125 years olds with the poorest levels of IGF-1 is 3.4 - it suggests I'm walking around with GH levels of one of the oldest living human beings, I wouldn't get too confident with that doc, I think 30 to 60 year old males range between 13 and 37 according to my Endos documentation.

Hope this finds you well and look forward to your responses.

P.S. joined dats forum yesterday if it is the btrue one however I couldn't list anyone as a viable referee, I haven't had an emails from them yet confirming I'm registered, please let me know if there is any oversight on my part.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

im also from around the birmingham area , the ref ranges were simply the first ones i could grab.

you probably already know this but just in case i'll say it anyway , but in the past (when PCT's controlled the NHS money) if you wanted a treatment that was not indicated for use (by the NHS /NICE etc) then you had to get evidence from your specialist indicating the help it would give you and petition for its use and funding off label , now the PCT's have gone the same thing can be done with your local CCG . (like you i am well aware of what is and is not available to people regarding medications and treatments and this is the only thing you can legally do)

other than that you are asking where to get a prescription medication on here (IGF-1 - mecasermin) which is against board rules , peptide wise i have no idea and @Pscarb is the person who might be able to help you.

i know it is frustrating if you have a condition you cannot get treatment for and have had to educate yourself to a high level regarding it (ive been there myself) , which involves arguments with endos or other professionals and usually ends in them asking you who is the expert and you saying its clearly not them (especially if you take research with you to show them).

all i can say is keep plugging at the bastards and try and get all your specialists to write you a letter stating how much this treatment could help your quality of life - and petition the CCG for funding for it (there is a board that makes the decision based on evidence provided by the patient).

good luck


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## tommyclearyuk (May 15, 2008)

Great response Aqualung, we're on the same page.

My previous Endo led me to believe that he had tested all relevant Hormones 8ish years ago, when my Haemochromatosis and subsequent Hypopituartism was diagnosed, I trusted him but as I still felt like death so after a chance discussion, I re-evaluated my Pit gland issues and within about 20 minutes of research, I spotted I had all the symptoms of GH deficiency - that was about 18 months ago. The fact that this wasn't tested despite my Endo suggesting it was led me to decide to get a referral to a well recommended/experienced Endo at Birmingham's QE.

Thanks for the info about pushing for funding/approval, if I'm honest, I haven't had chance to look down that Avenue and my new Endo said it would be very difficult to get the approval however my argument would loosely be based around the fact that Mecasermin is available for Children and Adolescence's up to the age of 25 who have low IGF-1 - would giving this to someone over 25 suddenly render it useless or make in dangerous (I think the 25 years cut of point may have something to do with human Growth Plates closing in the our mid-twenties). NICE accept GH is required in Adulthood and uses IGF-1 as an initial marker of an individual's GH health which would suggest this could be of benefit.

As for the Homerton Ref Ranges, you're right, they are the easiest ones to find, I think generally they're very similar and the doc is relatively recent, I think the ref ranges for the over 60s whilst probably true in many cases, need to be taken with a pinch of salt however as previously stated, I've referred to the 60 to 125 years age ref range in clinic appointments!!!

I will keep plugging away and thanks for the positivity.

@Pscarb - any assistance with a referral?

Thanks both


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

it looks like you have done your homework regarding your condition and the various treatments available for each age group , the only other advise if you decide to confront your CCG regarding funding for treatment (which it sound like you might have to do ) , is to remember that you will be presenting your case to medical professionals (who do not like to be told they are wrong in many cases) , so keep the medical section to a minimum and concentrate on telling them how much this therapy would improve your quality of life , as i said above if you can get this from your endo (or other specialist) -stating how much the patients life would be improved by the treatment it would be excellent for your case.

if you have not already done so look through all NICE guidance regarding your condition (the NHS has to follow guidance from it) , if theres nothing there then the nest best thing are letters from your consultant stating what i said above.

the following is taken from a CCG website regarding off treatment funding - to give you an idea of the process



> If the doctor or clinician believes there is a clinical need for the treatment, an application will be made to the Individual Funding Request (IFR) Panel. Your GP or clinician will write confidentially to the CCG to request funding demonstrating that there are clinical exceptional reasons in your case. Clinical exceptionality is considered to occur when the patient:
> 
> is significantly different to the general population of patients with the same diagnosis/condition in question, AND
> 
> ...


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