# Box squat V Back Squat



## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

Morning people.

OK i was reading an article earlier in relation to box squats. The basics of the article was in about box squats being a better mass builder than back squats.

This got me thinking and ive got a couple of points id like to get peoples opinions on. Firstly.........do you see box squats as being a better mass builder than box squats? Next........would you say there a potential for a heavier lift using box squats (the article indicated there was............however it looks to me like it would be harder to shift the same weigth compared to a regular box squat). And finally............with a box squat is the correct technique to actually sit on the box/bench on the lowering part of the squat and take all weight offf the legs?

Phew :thumb:


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Box squats are harder than normal back squats due to the relaxing of the hips etc when you actually sit on the box. This means you have to then contract the muscles harder to start moving as you lose most of the stretch reflex response from the legs and hips.

This makes box squats better for building explosive strength in the squat. I would argue that using slightly less weight, losing the tension on the leg muscles etc will mean they build slightly less muscle than regular back squats especially in the legs.

M


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## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

martin brown said:


> Box squats are harder than normal back squats due to the relaxing of the hips etc when you actually sit on the box. This means you have to then contract the muscles harder to start moving as you lose most of the stretch reflex response from the legs and hips.
> 
> This makes box squats better for building explosive strength in the squat. I would argue that using slightly less weight, losing the tension on the leg muscles etc will mean they build slightly less muscle than regular back squats especially in the legs.
> 
> M


Cheers for the reply Martin. So looking at the above............would you say that you would expect your average Joe to be able to back squat a heavier weight than that of a box squat?


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Yes, sometimes upto 10% more on back squat than a true box squat. Box squats are also difficult to perform as when you sit on a box and relax the hips you must keep your upper body tight or else the weight will just crush you as you sit down.

Box squats are good, but are used for a different purpose. Touch and go box squats are often better for "normal" training (non-powerlifting) and just use the box as a depth measue and it can also help you learn to push your hips back when you descend.

M


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## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

Ok Martin, cheers for the info............looks like its time to try and incorporate some box squats into the routine :thumbup1:


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## SOUTHMAN (Sep 14, 2008)

i use the touch and go box squat so i get the same depth on each squat.


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## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

That was the other thing i was thinking about the box squat. It doesn't look like it feels particularly deep compared to the back squat.


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

box squats never seemed safe to me, if you relax at the bottom then you risk tilting your pelvis, and putting your spine at risk. Also seems a lot harder to dump the weight if you don't have a pair of spotters.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

redOred said:


> That was the other thing i was thinking about the box squat. It doesn't look like it feels particularly deep compared to the back squat.


How high is your box? I use 8", 13" and 17" - not that I box squat very often.



gerg said:


> box squats never seemed safe to me, if you relax at the bottom then you risk tilting your pelvis, and putting your spine at risk. Also seems a lot harder to dump the weight if you don't have a pair of spotters.


Question: Why would you be squatting with a weight you needed to dump?

If you did need to dump it then you would just dump it back onto the safety bars in the power rack, which would have been set at an appropriate height as part of your squatting set up.

When you say relax at the bottom what do you mean? You relax your hip flexors, but keep everything else tight as you sit back and down onto the box, pause and then explode upwards.

@Martin - 10% difference is very good mate, I can't get it that close. Do you box squat alot?


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## SOUTHMAN (Sep 14, 2008)

gerg said:


> box squats never seemed safe to me, if you relax at the bottom then you risk tilting your pelvis, and putting your spine at risk. Also seems a lot harder to dump the weight if you don't have a pair of spotters.


set the bars in the cage at the correct height lol

I find that with full box squats you have to concentrate alot on your form to avoid the risks you highlighted. I do however think they improved my back squat form (ie sitting back into the squat). I do use a lighter weight when box squatting.

I have read a report that states focus of box squats is not mass building of the quads, the article in question suggests the trainer may experience smaller quads but bigger and stronger hamstrings and hips, thus the exercise conducts much carry over into the deadlift.

So to red or dead, if your after strength of the glutes hammies give them ago, if you just want quad size dont bother. Id suggest giving them ago anyhow


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

SOUTHMAN said:


> set the bars in the cage at the correct height lol
> 
> I find that with full box squats you have to concentrate alot on your form to avoid the risks you highlighted. I do however think they improved my back squat form (ie sitting back into the squat). I do use a lighter weight when box squatting.
> 
> ...


WSB article by any chance? :lol:


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## SOUTHMAN (Sep 14, 2008)

lol yeah bulldozer sent it me! hey man its a good article!


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## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

Tall said:


> How high is your box? I use 8", 13" and 17" - not that I box squat very often.
> 
> ?


To be honest mate ive never really tried them. Id seen people doing them but never really any of the guys i generally try and take ideas from in the gym. For the box im going to have to use a bench mate so id reckon about a couple of feet off the ground.



SOUTHMAN said:


> So to red or dead, if your after strength of the glutes hammies give them ago, if you just want quad size dont bother. Id suggest giving them ago anyhow


Yeah mate i am defo going to give them a bash...............if out of interest only.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

SOUTHMAN said:


> lol yeah bulldozer sent it me! hey man its a good article!


 :thumb:


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## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

Bulldozer said:


> :thumb:


lol.............any chance of forwarding it this way mate :thumbup1:


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Tall said:


> @Martin - 10% difference is very good mate, I can't get it that close. Do you box squat alot?


I rarely free squat in training, and in my case the difference is alot lower than 10%. I have box squatted over 320 and comp squatted 345. But that's about to change 

M


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

re: power rack, most people i've seen do them use a regular squat rack, which is too low to catch it (I've got used to not using one at my gym doesn't have one, and the one in the other gym is too small)


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

redOred said:


> lol.............any chance of forwarding it this way mate :thumbup1:


Erm... I can find it on my comp now :cursing:

Just google around for louie simmons on box squatting bud.

I box squat every week, i find they definately hit the posterior chain more and they have had good carry over to back squats for me and deads.

They are a useful tool for a strength trainer or for sports/ explosiveness. But have little use in Bodybuilding, so depends what you train for really.

I think your find a bench is too high tho bud, i use a 10 inch box.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

martin brown said:


> I rarely free squat in training, and in my case the difference is alot lower than 10%. I have box squatted over 320 and comp squatted 345. But that's about to change
> 
> M


Nice. What are you shooting for?

I found that, having long femurs, I didn't get enough carry over from box squatting, and I got alot more from technique work in the suit, although my best is considerably less than yours.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Tall said:


> Nice. What are you shooting for?
> 
> I found that, having long femurs, I didn't get enough carry over from box squatting, and I got alot more from technique work in the suit, although my best is considerably less than yours.


I think once you have the technique nailed in a suit you can then go back to training lifts to increase your squat - obviously to begin with more time in the suit will see bigger squats as you get used to it. I squat in briefs for most of the time in training now and only use a suit for a couple of weeks before a comp.

I made the mistake of having the box slightly too high end of last year, and missed a squat because of it. It shows how it effects your movement pattern because prior to that I'm normally too deep if anything. So the box has come down slightly since and I'll be hoping for 350-370kg in March.

M


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

martin brown said:


> I think once you have the technique nailed in a suit you can then go back to training lifts to increase your squat - obviously to begin with more time in the suit will see bigger squats as you get used to it. I squat in briefs for most of the time in training now and only use a suit for a couple of weeks before a comp.
> 
> I made the mistake of having the box slightly too high end of last year, and missed a squat because of it. It shows how it effects your movement pattern because prior to that I'm normally too deep if anything. So the box has come down slightly since and I'll be hoping for 350-370kg in March.
> 
> M


Don't you find squatting with briefs to totally change the groove of the lift?

I class a squat in briefs as a separate lift to a squat in a suit. Briefs certainly don't throw me forward as much - I will use briefs on my non-heavy squat days when going down to an 8" box, and often for speed squats (again if doing equipped speed squats down to a low box)

Belts, Wraps, Equipment - all of the above I find change the groove of the lift, and I generally prefer to stick to working in one groove.

I'd agree with the box height totally. My squat didn't move for a while as I was doing touch and go to a box that was too high. I'll use a high box to 'feel a weight' sometimes.

370kg would be a nice lift. You still in the 110s?


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

I find it slightly different in a suit but only due to the feeling it gives rather than groove of the lift. I try to squat the same no matter what kit Im wearing - again I haven't used knee wraps since my last comp in October. Somehow I feel if I can get stronger with just the breifs and a belt for 90% of the training then come the time I put the suit back on and add wraps I should expect bigger numbers to move, without necessarily moving them in training.

I've got two weeks training until the Welsh so this week I'll be kitting up to see how it goes.

Im competing in the 100's again now. Only did the 110's last year as I was new to it and didn't want to worry about my weight in my first comp or two. 365kg would be good (804lbs) but I've only just recieved a squat suit so I'm going to get in it on Friday and see what I can do (probably with a reverse mini/small band)


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

I need to go hunt for a new squat suit soon, my training suit I can now get on in less than 30seconds - curiously as the suit stretched I found depth/weights easier.

Any recommendations suit wise?

Currently using Titan, but I've found all of their equipment stretches too quickly.

I was reading on the Team SuperTraining board about putting it in a boil wash to make it shrink...?


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

I use Titan gear (apart from a Metal DL suit). I found the single ply breifs do stretch a bit but they don't really lose alot of support.

I have just got my custom Boss suit and it took about 45mins to get on. It's crazy but it is one nice suit. Your single ply only (IIRC) I'd go with Titan's Centurion. They stretch but nowehere near to the extent I've heard about other shirts/suits from Inzer and Metal.

I'd have a suit for training and buy a new one just for comp days (obviously you'd have to spend a couple of weeks in it first).

Re: the boil wash I've never tried it TBH. It should work but IMO your better getting one thats very tight to begin with than trying to shrink it.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

martin brown said:


> I use Titan gear (apart from a Metal DL suit). I found the single ply breifs do stretch a bit but they don't really lose alot of support.
> 
> I have just got my custom Boss suit and it took about 45mins to get on. It's crazy but it is one nice suit. Your single ply only (IIRC) I'd go with Titan's Centurion. They stretch but nowehere near to the extent I've heard about other shirts/suits from Inzer and Metal.
> 
> ...


Well remember Mr Brown. :thumb: Not been on PLUK for a bit - I got bored of the WoW spam :cursing:

I have a Titan Superior NXG+ in size 46 currently, I'll have a nosey at the centurian. One problem I have with the suit is that the straps are really too thin on my traps. The one Chris Jenkins wears looks like it might be better suited (sic)

I have a spare Bench Shirt in Size 50 which I might try the boil wash on and see how it goes :thumb:


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## redOred (Jan 14, 2009)

Bulldozer said:


> Erm... I can find it on my comp now :cursing:
> 
> Just google around for louie simmons on box squatting bud.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate.............much appreciated.

Some good info from the rest of you............cheers :thumbup1:


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Tall said:


> Well remember Mr Brown. :thumb: Not been on PLUK for a bit - I got bored of the WoW spam :cursing:
> 
> I have a Titan Superior NXG+ in size 46 currently, I'll have a nosey at the centurian. One problem I have with the suit is that the straps are really too thin on my traps. The one Chris Jenkins wears looks like it might be better suited (sic)
> 
> I have a spare Bench Shirt in Size 50 which I might try the boil wash on and see how it goes :thumb:


Wow spam is what I wake up for every morning!

Dude, get yourself one of Titan's new centurions - maybe even go down a size if you think the 46 isn't mega tight. The new centurions are way more of a suit than the superiors.

Mr Jenkins uses velcro straps though I think, they are common on the Metal Ace suits and also Titan Boss. It's illegal stuff for you though Im afraid. Of course if your not caring about competing in it then go ahead


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

martin brown said:


> Wow spam is what I wake up for every morning!
> 
> Dude, get yourself one of Titan's new centurions - maybe even go down a size if you think the 46 isn't mega tight. The new centurions are way more of a suit than the superiors.
> 
> Me Jenkins uses velcro straps though I think, they are common on the Metal Ace suits and also Titan Boss. It's illegal stuff for you though Im afraid. Of course if your not caring about competing in it then go ahead


Hmmm.

Food for thought...


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

Box squats will allow you to go heavier than a regular squat, however for leg development fluid reps on a normal squat will result in better development IMO. Box squats do have a place in bb training but you want to get the height right, no point squatting 2 inches above parallel and using massive weights which strain the **** out of your cns if your merely trying to get bigger legs....


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## the bulldog (Oct 30, 2008)

the metal ace is a great suit pm me tall ,see you at the welsh martin good luck mate


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## The Bam (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi mate yeah box squats are good but you shouldnt totaly replace back squat for them alternate beetween the 2 if you want them in your routine bud.

Be careful with them and try your best to be very strict with your lower back posture !

all the best mate


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