# UKWolverine's IF/EOD Refeed Experiment



## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

I'm currently just over a week in to a bit of an experiment in to Intermittent Fasting with a refeed post workout on training days and PSMF on off days.

I've let the fat creep on a bit recently so looking to cut/recomp whilst retaining strength and muscle fullness.

*Diet*

*
*

*
Training Days*

At least 1g/lb of LBM Lean Protein

300 - 400g Carbs in a 5 Hour feeding window PWO

Under 30g Fat

Around Maintenance + 10%

*Non Training Days*

1.5g/lb of LBM Lean Protein

6g of Omega3 Fish Oil

Low Fat Cheese

0 - 5g of Carbs

Green Veg

Very low cal 8cals/lb

*Training*

*
*

*
Training Days*

Mon/Wed/Fri

Full Body Compounds (Squat, Bench or Overhead Press, Pulls/Chins/Rows or Deads), 3 x 6

Followed by a Full Body High Rep/Low Rest Circuit

*Non Training Days*

Tu/Th/Sat

45 min LISS Fasted Cardio

*Supplements*

*
*

*
*Green Tea Extract

Yohimbine HCL - Pre Cardio

Ephedrine

Caffeine

L-Tyrosine

Creatine Mono

Fish Oil Caps

Multivit

ZMA

*Set up*

*
*

*
Non Training Days*

Fast until 4pm

Yohimbine/Caffeine/Tyrosine/GTE Pre Cardio in AM

Eph 4 hours later

4pm - 10pm 3 meals

* Training Days*

Fast until midday

Protein Carb Meal

Train 2 hours later

PWO Shake

Carb Up for 5 hours

Protein only until 10pm

*Sunday*

*
*

*
*Rest maintenance cals

Already seen some leaning up on stomach and i'm lean and full morning after carb up so not overspilling.

Strength has maintained if not increased slightly.

I'll take some pics and do meassurements and upload them tomorrow.


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

Will be following this buddy, n cheers for the email appreciated.

Just out of interest why take the ephedrine 4 hours after the cardio jw?


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

SK-XO said:


> Will be following this buddy, n cheers for the email appreciated.
> 
> Just out of interest why take the ephedrine 4 hours after the cardio jw?


No problems pal :beer:

Reason for taking eph later is that I'm taking Yohimbine pre cardio, so I'm giving it some time to clear my system before having the eph.

Ephedrine and Yohimbine shouldn't be taken together really, some do but it's not really advisable.


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## Kate1976 (Jul 19, 2008)

Subscribed  Have done Lyle's PSMF before...pretty hardcore!

Best of luck...


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

nice one mate, ill be keeping a eye on this to further our PM chat


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the support guys. Yeah Kate, the low days are based on Lyle's RFL, although not quite as difficult as doing it all low for 11 days straight. Well done for sticking that out!

Doing it IF style seems to help a lot, they end up being quite decent sized meals. So I'm actually finding it quite easy to do so far, the fast kills my appetite too which helps.


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## XL (Aug 12, 2009)

Very interesting. I'll be keeping an eye on this.

Good luck.


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## leonface (May 10, 2009)

Good luck, looks like an interesting concept


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## gumballdom (Dec 14, 2008)

this looks really interesting. good to see someone goin against the grain. will be following.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

*Starting Measurements*

Thought I'd do the measurements in cm for added accuracy.

*Neck* - 38.5

*Shoulder Girth* - 119

*Chest* - 101

*Bicep* - 35

*Waist* - 83.5

*Hips* - 93

*Thigh* - 58

*Calf* - 37

*Penis Girth* - :laugh:

I'll be doing these once every other week to check I'm moving in the right direction.

If I see no change in anything but the waist measurement then I'll be happy.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Here's a starting pic, a bit washed out as taking with web cam in front on window, I need to get on the Melanotan 2 

If I keep the photo format consistent should be able to notice changes.

I'd estimate myself 14% bf ish, faint outline of upper abs and obliques when I tense. This was taken today on a PSMF day after fast.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Why do you think the body grows the most in the few hours after training?


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Why do you think the body grows the most in the few hours after training?


I don't think that, but growth isn't the goal of this experiment. Any LBM gain at all will be a pleasant suprise.

There is a theory that high carb intake pwo can initiate a strong anabolic response but as I am in quite a high weekly deficit due to the low days I can't see this having any real impact on gains.

I'm looking to cut bf whilst retaining/increasing strength and take advantage of muscle insulin sensitivity post fast and post heavy resistance training, aka the lean gains approach.

http://leangains.blogspot.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

Sure I could just do Lyle's straight PSMF to cut the fat down fast, but a combo with EOD refeeds allows me to keep the training intensity up and help reset some of the metabolic slow down from VLC dieting (Leptin, Ghrelin, T3/T4 etc).

I know this isn't conventional but people are seeing good results following similar set ups, so I'm going to give it a blast for 8 weeks and see what happens.

I did Lyle's UD2 last year and had some great results. So far this is a walk in the park in comparison, much more flexability.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Can certainly see the thinking behind the theory... will be interesting to see how it works out.

How long are you going to do this for?


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

8 weeks in total I think to give it a fair trial, already week and half in to it. Lost around 2 kilos since starting but that's going to be water and perhaps a pound or 2 of fat.

Ideally I'd like to drop 10lbs of fat and keep my LBM the same. Then aim to maintain following a lean gains IF approach. We'll see.

Good thing about this set up I'm finding is I can take things quite low on the non training days because I know I have the refeed coming up the next day, and I find the fasting really does kill appetite.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Yep, all makes sense.

If glycogen stores are fully filled on your feed up days, and you are not too active on your fasting days, then you shouldn't be getting too catabolic with cortisol tearing apart the muscles for carbs when you are fasting and will retain your current LBM... so long as the fasting periods aren't longer than 36-48 hours.

I've kind of done intermittent fasting unintentionally many times... I suffer depression and at times my stress response is to hardly eat anything at all. I have come to realise through that that I can go a day, maybe two, with almost no food and not lose muscle, and do this fairly regularly and still be ok, but any longer than a couple of days and the muscle gets ripped apart fast and the refeed lead to quick fat gain.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

There are some interesting hormonal effects when fasting, natural growth hormone secretion is elevated quite considerably, which supposedly accounts for some LBM sparing. We also know how profoundly fat mobilising GH is too.

In theory with this diet set up i'm looking to maximising sympathetic nervous system output (fight or flight response) and associated hormones during fat burning cycles, and maximise parasympathetic rest and recovery systems pwo for LBM maintenance.

The IFing is more to make the diet easier to adhere to as going as low as 8cals/lb over a day of meals leads to a lot of hunger IME.

I'll take any insulin sensitivity and extra GH as a welcome bonus


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Had a fantastic workout today, strength was very good, especially in the squat and overhead press.

I've been advised to drop the depletion circuit and just stick with the low volume, high intensity (weight on bar) workouts for muscle maintenance.

Will probably just throw in some push ups and extra ab work instead from now on.


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

I've decided to tweak things for the low cal/non training days.

It's proving very hard for me to find diary protein sources which are low enough in fat. I was eating low fat cheese but what I really need is fat free cheese, but I can't find any anywhere. Think it must just be an American concept!

Therefore i've decided to ditch the cheese and swap out all my whey shakes for casein on the low days. This should hopefully give me the diary calcium I'm wanting and also keep me fuller longer.

I've also decided to start supplementing 6g of CLA along with my 6g of Fish Oils. Apart from tag along fats in the lean meat that's going to make up my only fat content on low days from now on.


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## tuna_man (Nov 24, 2009)

Interesting concept mate, its a bit like animalbolics (google it), which was for recomp.

Are you using any thermogenics or anabolic?

anabolics would allow superior lean mass retention on low cals while aggressively dropping bodyfat, they would make it even more interesting


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

tuna_man said:


> Interesting concept mate, its a bit like animalbolics (google it), which was for recomp.
> 
> Are you using any thermogenics or anabolic?
> 
> anabolics would allow superior lean mass retention on low cals while aggressively dropping bodyfat, they would make it even more interesting


Thanks for the heads up on Animalbolics, shares a lot of the same concepts.

Only thermogenics I'm using at the moment are yohimbine pre cardio and plenty of ephedrine caffiene, I could drop in some clen but I think I'm too fat to bother with that at the moment, perhaps for the final few weeks when i've dropped a bit more.

AAS would certainly make things interesting, planning on doing this round natty but never say never


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## tuna_man (Nov 24, 2009)

Good call on saving the clen for when you truly need it. I would take eph caff yohimbe all before cardio but i dont know how it might affect another person.

Will be good to see the difference a radical approach gives. And next time round imagine even some oral anavar the difference it would make


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## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Quick update, noticed my strength dropped a bit in today's workout and I started to cramp a little on the leg press. I usually take in a glucose drink just before workout but didn't get chance today, so I am putting it down to this.

Will monitor it as, if anything I thought my strength was actually going up over this cycle so far.

Apart from that things are going quite well. Down another couple of pounds from last week. I am bloating in the evening of the low day, but I put this down to the yohimbine. It's completely gone by the next morning.

I will take another pic on Friday to see if any recomp progress is noticeable.


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