# Clenbuterol? the truth?



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Is clenbuterol dangerous? or is it all just hyped up rumour? I've taken clenbuterol on a number of occaisons through my cycles just to increase energy output, and to help increase my metabolic rate and increase my protein synthesis, however, in these times of taking them, the only side effect i can note where Sevre Cramps, which are easily treated by torine, and shakes, and maybe a slightly elivated heart rate and nervousness?

Now my questions are? what are the REAL down sides to this drug? people say that its damaging for the heart? from what I can remember "Quote i could be wrong" there was a study done on RATS, in which they used a MG dosage of clenbuterol, and they found the rats had heart related illness due to the drug? however... the studie didn't mention that rats Have a much HIGHER beta 2 receptor, then humans, which is why clenbuterol may have caused the effects to be so prenounced on rats? Now aswell as that? if im correct the dosage they used on rats was in MGS, and they have a much higher B2receptor then humans? so does in dosages as small as 120ug or IU max when cutting, and knowing we have less b2receptors, would this mean that such a small dosage of clen, isn't gonna have any prenound effect on the heart whats so ever for humans?

I may be talking a load of **** here and confusing what i've readed in the past, but i just wana know fore sure if clenbuterol has any dangers in that type of dosage relating to problems associated with the heart in humans?

Also people say clen causes heart to race if they take too much at one point, without building it up slowly into the system? so is it possible for that to cause dangers?

If you guys could all put your facts together on this thread, and perhaps share some thoughts and opinions on what you think this drug is like? then please fire away.


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## Crazy-Northerner (May 5, 2011)

basically i love clen.

especially alpha pharma clen.

subbed for all the science gurus with there articles and shiz though


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

waffle_head said:


> basically i love clen.
> 
> especially alpha pharma clen.
> 
> subbed for all the science gurus with there articles and shiz though


Yeah im a big fan of alpha pharma clen, but im also a fan of chinese clen pots  they've never let me down yet and they're cheaper.


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## Crazy-Northerner (May 5, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Yeah im a big fan of alpha pharma clen, but im also a fan of chinese clen pots  they've never let me down yet and they're cheaper.


strangely i get alpha pharma stuff cheaper than the chinese stuff.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Ask Zyzz!......... Arh wait a minute there maybe a problem.

Seriously though interested in the topic, please continue


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## SteveMUFC (May 30, 2012)

I personally think the results of clen are based on the bodyfat % you start with. 15% or less you would see great results anyone over may see less visible or not as great results than a person with 15% or less bodyfat. This is a opinion from my own experience with it.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

waffle_head said:


> strangely i get alpha pharma stuff cheaper than the chinese stuff.


Hmm i get the chinese pots real cheap


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

SteveMUFC said:


> I personally think the results of clen are based on the bodyfat % you start with. 15% or less you would see great results anyone over may see less visible or not as great results than a person with 15% or less bodyfat. This is a opinion from my own experience with it.


Not really on about results, although it makes sense, eitherway you drop bodyfat like crazy if diet and cardio's upto scratch, but what i wana know is the dangers of the stuff.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Pain2Gain said:


> Ask Zyzz!......... Arh wait a minute there maybe a problem.
> 
> Did Zyzz actually die or was that a rumour? and if he did die it was apparantly an heart attack right? hahaha hope to god he wasnt on clen when it happened  thats a major put off.
> 
> Seriously though interested in the topic, please continue


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## leeds_01 (Aug 6, 2008)

no science articles from me mate

the truth?

the truth is it works


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## Crazy-Northerner (May 5, 2011)

i hope it aint that bad for you like. ive used it 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for like the past 3-4 month and plan on continuing to do so till atleast january time.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

You want to know if clen is dangerous, yes of course it is.

First off why do you think it's banned for use in cattle? Because the effects of the clen remain in the meat and HAVE caused serious illness.

Second clen can cause heart problems, these effects can be cumulative, this can kill you.

Third, taking clen with an undiagnosed heart condition can kill you.

Get the picture  .


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Mars said:


> You want to know if clen is dangerous, yes of course it is.
> 
> First off why do you think it's banned for use in cattle? Because the effects of the clen remain in the meat and HAVE caused serious illness.
> 
> ...


are ECA/t3's safer options or are they all pretty bad?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

Mars said:


> Third, taking clen with an undiagnosed heart condition can kill you.
> 
> Get the picture  .


This ^^ I have used a bunch of clen in the past but tbh I will probably never use it again. Sure,

we all take drugs that can be dangerous,

but the risk to reward ratio of clen is to vast for me to consider it again.


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## Kamwe kuacha (Jun 19, 2011)

Mars said:


> You want to know if clen is dangerous, yes of course it is.
> 
> First off why do you think it's banned for use in cattle? Because the effects of the clen remain in the meat and HAVE caused serious illness.
> 
> ...


Clen sounds awesome! Might order some!!! :-D


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## Crazy-Northerner (May 5, 2011)

fcuk sacke fcuk this thread lol think al have my last clen blast on monday for 2 weeks and thats that for now.

fcukin scare mongers lol


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Mars said:


> You want to know if clen is dangerous, yes of course it is.
> 
> First off why do you think it's banned for use in cattle? Because the effects of the clen remain in the meat and HAVE caused serious illness.
> 
> ...


Well if thats your take on clenbuterol i don't want to know what your take on steroids is to be honest, but your avi says enough for me lol.... this is one of the main reasons i brought this thread to light, because theres so much scare mongering going around about clen, but so many people using it with no health related illnesses, I've used it and seen many others have used it with out a problem? so is there any proof that clenbuterol is as bad as made out to be? I've even ran T3 and Clen together, with absolutely 0 harmful side effects, only small ones which have been noted such as shivvers and slight increase in heart rate and a tempurary increase in Blood pressure.

Some people say clen is a safe drug, then others like you say its a dangerous drug, I honestly just want the cat out the bag already, anyone can go bad mouthing a drug saying it does this or that.

But what you've mentioned is reguarding cattle, and the meat? well as a human i've never seen anyone take anymore then 140mcg of the drug when cutting, and i'm guessing like the rat studies the cattle must have been dosaged greatly into its mgs to have this effect on its meat? i mean... human dosages are far too small to cause any serious harm right? were as they probz stuffed the cattle with mass amounts of the stuff, which would be enough to kill a human easily....

I'm after more proof through human studies, i don't wana know what happened to the cattle, or the mice in the science lab, i wana know what the effects of this drug are like on a human in the ways of health related issues on a dosage of 140mcg? not through eating an overdosed cattles meat full to the rim with like 4grams of clen, probably injected also Intra muscularly...


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## dbol5 (Jan 21, 2012)

iv used len several times upto 200mcg a day without problems, am also currently undergoing tests for possible heart condition (chd) going from before using clen/steroids


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well if thats your take on clenbuterol i don't want to know what your take on steroids is to be honest, but your avi says enough for me lol.... this is one of the main reasons i brought this thread to light, because theres so much scare mongering going around about clen, but so many people using it with no health related illnesses, I've used it and seen many others have used it with out a problem? so is there any proof that clenbuterol is as bad as made out to be? I've even ran T3 and Clen together, with absolutely 0 harmful side effects, only small ones which have been noted such as shivvers and slight increase in heart rate and a tempurary increase in Blood pressure.
> 
> Some people say clen is a safe drug, then others like you say its a dangerous drug, I honestly just want the cat out the bag already, anyone can go bad mouthing a drug saying it does this or that.
> 
> ...


*
*

*
Then WTF do you want?*

*
I mentioned a lot more than just cattle.*

*
I'm not bad mouthing or scaremongering, i'm answering your question.*

*
I have told you the possibilities, very rare they may be, but they are still possibilites. *

*
I made two statements that refer to humans, they are factual statements, it's not that hard to grasp is it??*

*
I never mentioned mice and if you want the facts why not type the correct parameters into google and read some scientific studies, maybe from the Lancet for example.... if you can understand them *  *.*


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## SteveMUFC (May 30, 2012)

I used AP clen for 12 weeks 2 weeks on and off no sides what so ever went from 30% BF to 21%ish big difference.


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

The worst side effects aren't visible externally.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well if thats your take on clenbuterol i don't want to know what your take on steroids is to be honest, but your avi says enough for me lol.... this is one of the main reasons i brought this thread to light, because theres so much scare mongering going around about clen, but so many people using it with no health related illnesses, I've used it and seen many others have used it with out a problem? so is there any proof that clenbuterol is as bad as made out to be? I've even ran T3 and Clen together, with absolutely 0 harmful side effects, only small ones which have been noted such as shivvers and slight increase in heart rate and a tempurary increase in Blood pressure.
> 
> Some people say clen is a safe drug, then others like you say its a dangerous drug, I honestly just want the cat out the bag already, anyone can go bad mouthing a drug saying it does this or that.
> 
> ...


You do realise Mars is one of the most educated members on here regarding all things anabolic ?

The man is a FOUNTAIN of knowledge and rather than be smart with him you wouldnt go far wrong listening to him.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well if thats your take on clenbuterol i don't want to know what your take on steroids is to be honest, but your avi says enough for me lol.... this is one of the main reasons i brought this thread to light, because theres so much scare mongering going around about clen, *but so many people using it with no health related illnesses, I've used it and seen many others have used it with out a problem?* so is there any proof that clenbuterol is as bad as made out to be? I've even ran T3 and Clen together, with absolutely 0 harmful side effects, only small ones which have been noted such as shivvers and slight increase in heart rate and a tempurary increase in Blood pressure.
> 
> Some people say clen is a safe drug, then others like you say its a dangerous drug, I honestly just want the cat out the bag already, anyone can go bad mouthing a drug saying it does this or that.
> 
> ...


How do you expect people to create threads on the possible health issues of clen when they have experienced them?

If i had a heart attack tomorrow due to clen, then my first priority wouldnt be coming on here to warn people against it. Most of whom wouldn't listen, and would accuse me of scare mongering anyway.


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2012)

if you want studies just goto pubmed and type clenbuterol in the search box

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=clenbuterol


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Does anybody else just skip past aceofspadez posts because they are so full of sh*t?


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

kingdale said:


> Does anybody else just skip past aceofspadez posts because they are so full of sh*t?


Cant believe no-one has revived the empireboy visitor messages yet :lol:


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ever get the feeling some people want reassuring that taking substances is ok?

You say about the size of doses but yet you mentioned that you get tremors,surely if the dose was that small you wouldn't even get them?

From this post of yours,you seem to be one of them guys that doesn't believe a pill that small could do a 16stone man any harm,was actually speaking about them the other day and will push your luck a bit too far one day.


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## j11hnb (Dec 2, 2010)

what was the point in asking the question if you were always just going to disregard the answer given?

end of the day, 99% of the stuff we put in our body has a side effect or two, you just have to think is the risk to reward ratio big enough to justify taking it.

clen does work yes, but that extra little bit hard work wont have the sides clen does.

i was taking clen, and twice while on clen i have had to stop playing football after 5 minutes as i felt i could not breathe. so no more for me i would rather just put the extra work in


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

j11hnb said:


> what was the point in asking the question if you were always just going to disregard the answer given?
> 
> end of the day, 99% of the stuff we put in our body has a side effect or two, you just have to think is the risk to reward ratio big enough to justify taking it.
> 
> ...


Doubt that would be the clen if I'm honest mate. Clen is given to asthma patients and helps with breathing so if anything should help you out,I know it helps me and I was on 240mg.

Agree with the rest though


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

The main problem is that its not your liver your f*cking about with and enlarging here, its your heart.

Your heart won't bounce back after weeks of abuse like your liver. I don't think your heart can regenerate much at all. I am not really prepared to risk it to be honest.


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## j11hnb (Dec 2, 2010)

Sc4mp0 said:


> Doubt that would be the clen if I'm honest mate. Clen is given to asthma patients and helps with breathing so if anything should help you out,I know it helps me and I was on 240mg.
> 
> Agree with the rest though


may well of not been mate. i knew that about the asthma, its just the only thing that i was taking that could of done it. id rather be safe than sorry so just stopped taking them


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Cant believe no-one has revived the empireboy visitor messages yet :lol:


I missed that, what happened there?


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Mars said:


> Then WTF do you want?
> 
> I mentioned a lot more than just cattle.
> 
> ...


Well if their factual then post up some of this stuff, so i can read, cause its not convincing if you don't got the proof to back it up, and google wey... you do find some crap on google though lets admit... so its better if you find something legitimate about this and post it up so we can all see and read for ourselves.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Milky said:


> You do realise Mars is one of the most educated members on here regarding all things anabolic ?
> 
> The man is a FOUNTAIN of knowledge and rather than be smart with him you wouldnt go far wrong listening to him.


Am not being smart with him at all i want proven facts, upfront, sure im open to peoples opinions but what he was stating was factual apparantly, so i dont just wana read a whole load of ****e on google i want up front proof, otherwise to me its just scaremongering... i'm sure he's a very educated man, i just want the myths on this drug out in the open, its like steroids and the media for example, most people who dont understand steroids or put in the research will tell you even looking at steroids will kill you... so i just want to clear things up with the whole clen and the heart problems etc... cause i've never heard of any problems or any deaths related to clen, so how can anyone state that it causes stuff thats never actually been seen happen before?

I meant no disrespect to his post at all.


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## Crazy-Northerner (May 5, 2011)

jesus ace you always cause an argument on here when u post lol its entertaining tho


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> How do you expect people to create threads on the possible health issues of clen when they have experienced them?
> 
> If i had a heart attack tomorrow due to clen, then my first priority wouldnt be coming on here to warn people against it. Most of whom wouldn't listen, and would accuse me of scare mongering anyway.


This is not true one bit, if someone was on clen and they found themselves having heart issues or being rushed into hospital, when they recovered if they did, if they mentioned what happpened and there though was clen which caused it, then it would make people more cautious of this drug, and it would give us a little bit of a warning of the stuff... but thing is... i've never heard any storys or seen anyone get ill from it?


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Am not being smart with him at all i want proven facts, upfront, sure im open to peoples opinions but what he was stating was factual apparantly, so i dont just wana read a whole load of ****e on google i want up front proof, otherwise to me its just scaremongering... i'm sure he's a very educated man, i just want the myths on this drug out in the open, its like steroids and the media for example, most people who dont understand steroids or put in the research will tell you even looking at steroids will kill you... so i just want to clear things up with the whole clen and the heart problems etc... cause i've never heard of any problems or any deaths related to clen, so how can anyone state that it causes stuff thats never actually been seen happen before?
> 
> I meant no disrespect to his post at all.


How the fu*k can anyone provide proven facts for an illegal drug ?

Are you for real here.

A man who has forgotten more than you will ever know gives you the facts and not only are you rude to him you want HIM to prove he is right !

There is NO clear answer to ANYTHING apart from taxes and death, both are gonna happen no matter what. If Mars has stated it then he has done his research and has told you, end of.

If you want it proving more so then do some reasearch for yourself instead of being a lazy ku*t and expecting others to do it.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

AceOfSpadez said:


> This is not true one bit, if someone was on clen and they found themselves having heart issues or being rushed into hospital, when they recovered if they did, *if they mentioned what happpened and there though was clen which caused it*, then it would make people more cautious of this drug, and it would give us a little bit of a warning of the stuff... but thing is... i've never heard any storys or seen anyone get ill from it?


I dont undestand this post, have you miss spelt a word maybe ?


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Milky said:


> I dont undestand this post, have you miss spelt a word maybe ?


think he means 'they thought it was clen'

As mars said though, if it can be fatal, I dont see how we would ever get this supposed warning from the guy who's died :confused1:


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

onthebuild said:


> think he means 'they thought it was clen'
> 
> As mars said though, if it can be fatal, I dont see how we would ever get this supposed warning from the guy who's died :confused1:


Yeah l thought the same possibly so how does someone THINKING it may be down to Clen actually prove anything then ?


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> This is not true one bit, if someone was on clen and they found themselves having heart issues or being rushed into hospital, when they recovered if they did, if they mentioned what happpened and there though was clen which caused it, then it would make people more cautious of this drug, and it would give us a little bit of a warning of the stuff... but thing is... i've never heard any storys or seen anyone get ill from it?


1: not everyone tells the hospitals what they take. its a notorious problem.

2: you admit to not bothering to research so how would you know if it has been reported?



AceOfSpadez said:


> Am not being smart with him at all i want *proven facts*, upfront, sure im open to peoples opinions but what he was stating was factual apparantly, so *i dont just wana read a whole load* of ****e on google i want up front proof, otherwise to me its just scaremongering... i'm sure he's a very educated man, i just want the myths on this drug out in the open, its like steroids and the media for example, most people who dont understand steroids or put in the research will tell you even looking at steroids will kill you... so i just want to clear things up with the whole clen and the heart problems etc... *cause i've never heard of any problems or any deaths related to clen, so how can anyone state that it causes stuff thats never actually been seen happen before?*
> 
> I meant no disrespect to his post at all.


proven facts? i guess unproven facts wouldnt be enough...

but dude, if you care this much then get off your lazy a$$ and research it yourself. you openly admit to knowing nil about clen yet at the same time preaching its safety. clearly you can use the internet, so why dont you spend this time on pubmed instead of making these kind of pointless statements


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Milky said:


> Yeah l thought the same possibly so how does someone THINKING it may be down to Clen actually prove anything then ?


Who knows mate! The fact its banned from use in cattle, yet tren isnt, speaks volumes IMO.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> think he means 'they thought it was clen'
> 
> As mars said though, if it can be fatal, I dont see how we would ever get this supposed warning from the guy who's died :confused1:


The media would blame it on steroids anyway, not the clen, not the booze, not the coke, not the junk food, not the anti-d's.............No it was the all the steroids! Tabloids with scary steroids stories sell like regular tabloids, on steroids! ££  ££


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

reducing calories and exercising has always worked for me pal h34r:


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Someone photoshop this with his head on :lol:


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

waffle_head said:


> jesus ace you always cause an argument on here when u post lol its entertaining tho


Ahhh I just like to know the ins and outs of things and i don't always choose to believe the first thing i see or read unless they have the proof to back it up, and im always open to opinions? however most people on this forum find someone who they think are smart or clue'd up, and instantly they just seem to believe everything that person writes or quotes... where as me i prefer a second opinion if theres no proof of what they say and people hate me for it, and get all ****y, all because the person they look upto their "GURU" is being second questioned on what they say...

P.S I'll only second question unless they've backed what they've said up.

I mean take ausbuilt? that dudes clue'd up, he's damn smart, and his posts are superb, but his advice isn't always perfect... infact i find his advice may even be dangerous cause the stuff he does not every individual can do... he once told me to kick start my dbol by taking 300mg days 1 to 3, then temper down to 100mg... and to be honest he may be able to do that, but if i took that advice i may have been on a liver transplant hahaha, this was a year ago or so though... and he still always says you should get bloods etc before hand see how you react so guess he does play it safe... but idiots will often listen to him and think because he can do it they can do it, and without bloods they'll probz do it and end up on a hospital bed? so yeah... i mean.... do we really wana be playing around when it comes to drugs and taking one persons view on it? like i say... proof man.... studies perhaps? maybe people who've actually suffered illness from these drugs etc... but meh, i'm ace i'm hard work haha and stubborn... so bring on the hate.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Milky said:


> How the fu*k can anyone provide proven facts for an illegal drug ?
> 
> Are you for real here.
> 
> ...


Well if he says it factual then how can't he prove it? jeesus christ, if this flaming me keeps up i swear ill end up turning religious.... wasnt even rude to him.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Matt 1 said:


> reducing calories and exercising has always worked for me pal h34r:


Yeah i can tell, you're made out of stone you hahaha


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

m118 said:


> 1: not everyone tells the hospitals what they take. its a notorious problem.
> 
> 2: you admit to not bothering to research so how would you know if it has been reported?
> 
> ...


Its difficult to find legitimate proof on the internet these days man, c'mon give me a break here... so much hate  why does everyone hate the ace man!!!


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## Crazy-Northerner (May 5, 2011)

**** ace i would love to spend a day in your head. would be crazy as fcuk


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Milky said:


> I dont undestand this post, have you miss spelt a word maybe ?


Yeah i miss spelt Thought


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Its *difficult *to find legitimate proof on the internet these days man, c'mon give me a break here... so much hate  *why does everyone hate the ace man!!*!


1: have you even looked on pubmed? because googling 'clenbuterol is it safe for the ace man' on google probably wont be sufficient

2: why the hate? well its probably because you refer to yourself in the third person and you're too lazy to research the answers to the questions you keep asking.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

waffle_head said:


> **** ace i would love to spend a day in your head. would be crazy as fcuk


Well i swear to god its not half as crazy as the mood swings on this god forsaken forum... ROFL.... i'm sitting here having a laugh... whilst people are biting my head off, bitches be hatin yo dig?


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

m118 said:


> 1: have you even looked on pubmed? because googling 'clenbuterol is it safe for the ace man' on google probably wont be sufficient
> 
> 2: why the hate? well its probably because you refer to yourself in the third person and you're too lazy to research the answers to the questions you keep asking.


Yeh dude i've got like 6different personalitys, the **** that posted this in behind my eye balls having a laugh.... PFFTT third person :*(


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Conscript said:


> The media would blame it on steroids anyway, not the clen, not the booze, not the coke, not the junk food, not the anti-d's.............No it was the all the steroids! Tabloids with scary steroids stories sell like regular tabloids, on steroids! ££  ££


I like this post, it has strength. and elegance. i dunno what those words mean but it has it.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

The ace man sounds alot like that cvnt we all love to hate the 'z' man.


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## leeds_01 (Aug 6, 2008)

vtec_yo said:


> The worst side effects aren't visible externally.


amen brother


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> I like this post, it has strength. and elegance. i dunno what those words mean but it has it.


I think there's more chance of you supporting Sunderland than not knowing of such thing's as booze, coke, and stotties and peas pudding like pet!


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> The ace man sounds alot like that cvnt we all love to hate the 'z' man.


well it takes more effort to hate then love, so looks like i'm on a winning streak here ey? i noticed no one posted back after what i quoted to Waffle head?


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Conscript said:


> I think there's more chance of you supporting Sunderland than not knowing of such thing's as booze, coke, and stotties and peas pudding like pet!


WEWWWWW easy there, no need to call is pet, jees, ermm now hey! step too far there like not think? supporting sunderland pfftttt... hahaha yeah RIGHTTT.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

I stopped posting coz l am bored of you end of.

Your clearly a tool.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

go take as much clen as you can afford.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Milky said:


> I stopped posting coz l am bored of you end of.
> 
> Your clearly a tool.


 well isnt that lovely, Bye x


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

kingdale said:


> go take as much clen as you can afford.


Yeah i'll run the normal dosage, never seen it harm anyhow yet... so see how it goes.


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

I heard it works better if you wrap your self in tinfoil when doing cardio


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

dbaird said:


> I heard it works better if you wrap your self in tinfoil when doing cardio


Need to wrap up warm it's winter now...


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## benki11 (Sep 17, 2010)

Copy and paste from another forum ,might be interested for you

Thought this was interesting...part in italics made me laugh...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20060421...htheartfailure

Asthma Drug Might Help Fight Heart Failure

By Amanda Gardner

HealthDay Reporter Fri Apr 21, 7:09 PM ET

FRIDAY, April 21 (HealthDay News) -- Body builders sometimes turn, illicitly, to the asthma drug clenbuterol to help them bulk up, but now researchers say the drug might also help heart failure patients stay strong without the need for heart transplant.

The first U.S. study of the drug found it was safe in a small number of heart failure patients. The drug was also found to increase skeletal muscle mass and strength, although there was no significant change in heart function.

The trial, which is a precursor to bigger trials, is an example of how far doctors will go to find solutions to the growing problem of heart failure.

And like many other avenues of research, the promise is still a faint one.

"We've learned the hard way that any pharmacological intervention in this very fragile group of patients needs to be studied very cautiously and thoroughly," cautioned Dr. Ann Bolger, a spokeswoman for the

American Heart Association and professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. "Something that looks to be positive early on may not still be positive later on."

The end step for many heart failure patients is a heart transplant. But with a worldwide shortage of organ donors, many patients have to survive on heart pumps. Is there a way to avoid both heart pumps and transplants? Possibly, the experts say.

"The idea is to one day develop strategies to promote cardiac recovery while patients are supported with a heart pump. That would obviate the need for heart transplants," said Dr. Simon Maybaum, medical director of the Center for Advanced Cardiac Therapy and the Cardiac Transplant and Assist Device Program at Montefiore Medical Center and Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City. "This is a growing area of research, and both novel pharmacological agents and cellular therapy [stem cells] will be studied. This research is crucial since because of the critical lack of organs for patients with end-stage heart failure."

Maybaum was lead author of the study, which was presented recently at a meeting of the International Society of Heart and Lung Transplantation in Madrid, Spain.

"We're looking for ways to make the transition off the pump and potentially go forward from there," Bolger added. "We need more tools to save lives."

Studies done by one British center found that clenbuterol resulted in significant improvement in cardiac function in patients with heart pumps awaiting heart transplants. In fact, the pumps could be taken out in more than half of the patients, meaning they no longer were in need of transplant. Those studies used doses 20 times those typically used by asthma patients and athletes.

Clenbuterol is not approved in the United States and, in fact, has a checkered history: Some people fell ill after eating livestock that had been treated with the drug.

Maybaum, however, managed to obtain permission from the U.S.

Food and Drug Administration to conduct a small pilot study using high-dose clenbuterol.

There were two parts to the study: The first tested high-dose clenbuterol in heart pump patients. The second focused on whether the drug in lower doses would improve muscle function and quality of life in heart failure patients without heart pumps (those with milder heart failure). Seven patients completed the study.

Clenbuterol did increase skeletal muscle mass and strength, and was safe at the doses given -- 10 to 15 times that usually taken by asthmatics and athletes. There was no significant change in heart function. However, Maybaum pointed out that the study was not designed to look at this.

Data from the second part of the study is still blinded to researchers, and therefore not yet available.

The next step will be to conduct a multi-center trial in the United States to try to replicate the British findings with heart pump patients.

However, some experts voiced major concerns.

"Patients in heart failure have a pretty broad spectrum of responses to all kinds of therapies, so we have to be very careful. In some situations, this type of drug can be very dangerous with respect to arrhythmias, blood pressure changes and even stroke," Bolger said. "Medications that seem to give the heart an extra boost sometimes make patients feel better, but increase early mortality."

On the other hand, Bolger added, muscle-building strategies including physical fitness, have already been shown to benefit heart failure patients.

Even the study authors were cautious about the odds of success.

"Whenever there are such novel results which have the potential to dramatically affect such a difficult disease process, we go into the research with a mixture of excitement and skepticism," Maybaum acknowledged. "We're optimistic that we will find solution, but we're not sure which one will bear out. We will definitely live in an era where we will be able to repair the heart as opposed to replace it."


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Is clenbuterol dangerous? or is it all just hyped up rumour? I've taken clenbuterol on a number of occaisons through my cycles just to increase energy output, and to help increase my metabolic rate and increase my protein synthesis, however, in these times of taking them, the only side effect i can note where Sevre Cramps, which are easily treated by torine, and shakes, and maybe a slightly elivated heart rate and nervousness?
> 
> Now my questions are? what are the REAL down sides to this drug? people say that its damaging for the heart? from what I can remember "Quote i could be wrong" there was a study done on RATS, in which they used a MG dosage of clenbuterol, and they found the rats had heart related illness due to the drug? however... the studie didn't mention that rats Have a much HIGHER beta 2 receptor, then humans, which is why clenbuterol may have caused the effects to be so prenounced on rats? Now aswell as that? if im correct the dosage they used on rats was in MGS, and they have a much higher B2receptor then humans? so does in dosages as small as 120ug or IU max when cutting, and knowing we have less b2receptors, would this mean that such a small dosage of clen, isn't gonna have any prenound effect on the heart whats so ever for humans?
> 
> ...


I seriously don't think you've ever taken enough of the drug make any difference to your physique.

If you look at the harefield protocol:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/4/355

thats a RECENT 2011, study where they used up to 720mcg of clen!!! to help heart patients with valve failure to not need a transplant or an assist device...

clen is def anabolic, when taken in a high enough dose- see the harefield protocol- patients given (BY NHS HAREFIELD TRUST) up to 700-720mcg!! 3x day of clen (they worked up to it) for a few months. The end result was about a 4kg LBM gain on average as a "side effect"!!

see:

"...In the Harefield protocol clenbuterol treatment was initiated when maximal regression of the left ventricular end-diastolic and end-systolic diameters have been reached and when these have been stable for at least 2 weeks. Treatment was started at small doses of 40 µg twice a day rising to 700 µg three times a day. The duration of treatment was variable and treatment was usually continued until the explantation criteria has been reached."

from:

http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/co...75/6_suppl/S36

however, all the studies use clebuterol at daily increasing doses up to 720mcg/3x day! for as "long as required" (months).

If after all that there's 4kg of lean mass increase great... but I don't know anyone on here who does more than 240mcg/day of clen...



Mars said:


> You want to know if clen is dangerous, yes of course it is.
> 
> First off why do you think it's banned for use in cattle? Because the effects of the clen remain in the meat and HAVE caused serious illness.
> 
> ...


a couple of points:

- agree all meds are dangerous, hell Paracetamol causes more liver failure than any other drug in the western world

- probably a double edged sword- perhaps it can cause some type of heart problem (can't find which); but its DEF used to FIX heart failure with patients needing a Left Ventricular Assist Device (or to prevent heart failure patients requiring such a device) under the NHS developed Harefield Protocol.

-its banned in cattle not becuase its dangerous to them, but becuase it can pass through the food chain unchanged- causing clenbuterol type effects on people who eat the meat from cattle treated with clen. Not great for children; prob a good thing for MacDonals customers :devil2:


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## brandon91 (Jul 4, 2011)

@ausbuilt since your in here mate, would you use albuterol over clen ? is there pros/cons to each ? or are they very similar ?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Is clenbuterol dangerous? or is it all just hyped up rumour? I've taken clenbuterol on a number of occaisons through my cycles just to increase energy output, and to help increase my metabolic rate and increase my protein synthesis, however, in these times of taking them, the only side effect i can note where Sevre Cramps, which are easily treated by torine, and shakes, and maybe a slightly elivated heart rate and nervousness?
> 
> Now my questions are? what are the REAL down sides to this drug? people say that its damaging for the heart? from what I can remember "Quote i could be wrong" there was a study done on RATS, in which they used a MG dosage of clenbuterol, and they found the rats had heart related illness due to the drug? however... the studie didn't mention that rats Have a much HIGHER beta 2 receptor, then humans, which is why clenbuterol may have caused the effects to be so prenounced on rats? Now aswell as that? if im correct the dosage they used on rats was in MGS, and they have a much higher B2receptor then humans? so does in dosages as small as 120ug or IU max when cutting, and knowing we have less b2receptors, would this mean that such a small dosage of clen, isn't gonna have any prenound effect on the heart whats so ever for humans?
> 
> ...





AceOfSpadez said:


> Well if thats your take on clenbuterol i don't want to know what your take on steroids is to be honest, but your avi says enough for me lol.... this is one of the main reasons i brought this thread to light, because theres so much scare mongering going around about clen, but so many people using it with no health related illnesses, I've used it and seen many others have used it with out a problem? so is there any proof that clenbuterol is as bad as made out to be? I've even ran T3 and Clen together, with absolutely 0 harmful side effects, only small ones which have been noted such as shivvers and slight increase in heart rate and a tempurary increase in Blood pressure.
> 
> Some people say clen is a safe drug, then others like you say its a dangerous drug, I honestly just want the cat out the bag already, anyone can go bad mouthing a drug saying it does this or that.
> 
> ...


google "harefield protocol" and you'll see clen being used at 720mcg 3xday in humans with heart failure.

However, that doesn't mean go and take that dose- read carefully and understand what it means to "titrate the dose upwards"

Testing of meat for human consumption does in fact pick up clen:

Food contamination

Intended to result in leaner meat with a higher muscle-to-fat ratio, the use of clenbuterol has been banned in meat since 1991 in the USA and since 1996 in the European Union. The drug is banned due to health concerns about symptoms noted in consumers. These include increased heart rate, muscular tremors, headaches, nausea, fever and chills. In the majority of cases, these adverse symptoms are temporary.[15]

Clenbuterol is a growth-promoting drug in the ?-agonist class of compounds. It is not licensed for use in China[16] or the United States[17] or the EU[18] for food producing animals, but some countries have approved it for animals not used for food, and a few countries have approved it for therapeutic uses in food-producing animals.

Not just athletes are affected by contamination. In Portugal, 50 people were reported as affected by clenbuterol in liver and pork between 1998 and 2002, while in 1990, veal liver was suspected of causing clenbuterol poisoning in 22 people in France and 135 people in Spain.[19]

In September 2006, over 330 people in Shanghai were reported to have food poisoning by eating clenbuterol-contaminated pork that had been fed to the animals to keep the meat lean.[20]

In February 2009, at least 70 people in one Chinese province (Guangdong) suffered food poisoning after eating pig organs believed to contain clenbuterol residue. The victims complained of stomachaches and diarrhea after eating pig organs bought in local markets.[21][22]

In March 2011, China's Ministry of Agriculture (MOA) said the government would launch a one-year crackdown on illegal additives in pig feed, after a subsidiary of Shuanghui Group, China's largest meat producer, was exposed for using clenbuterol-contaminated pork in its meat products. A total of 72 people in central Henan Province, where Shuanghui is based, were taken into police custody for allegedly producing, selling or using clenbuterol.[23] The situation has dramatically improved in China since September 2011, when a ban of clenbuterol was announced by China's Ministry of Agriculture.[24]

Authorities around the world appear to be issuing stricter food safety requirements, such as the Food Safety Modernization Act in the United States, Canada's revision of their import regulations, China's new food laws published since 2009, South Africa's new food law, and many more global changes and restrictions. The issue of intentional product adulteration for financial gain, using an ingredient that can be easily purchased on the internet in tablet, syrup or injection formulas, is a constant reminder that verification, inspection and certification of food safety is absolutely essential in the marketplace.[25]

[edit]Veterinary use

The US and the European Union prohibit the use of clenbuterol in food-producing animals. It is, however, used in other parts of the world for the treatment of allergic respiratory disease in horses, as it is a bronchodilator. A common trade name is Ventipulmin. It can be used both orally and intravenously. It is also used in cattle to relax the uterus in cows, usually at the time of parturition.[26] It is also a nonsteroidal anabolic and metabolism accelerator,[citation needed] through a mechanism not well understood. Although illegal, its ability to increase the muscle-to-body fat ratio makes its use in livestock popular to obtain leaner meats.[citation needed]

[edit]

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

brandon91 said:


> @ausbuilt since your in here mate, would you use albuterol over clen ? is there pros/cons to each ? or are they very similar ?


there's loads of evidence that albuterol increases performance:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3293733

but its not anabolic; nor does it have the body re-partitioning effects of clen.


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## brandon91 (Jul 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> there's loads of evidence that albuterol increases performance:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3293733
> 
> but its not anabolic; nor does it have the body re-partitioning effects of clen.


cheers for the link mate, looks like I'll be using clen if I choose to re-comp then.


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

I think clenbuterol is just a poor excuse for ephedrine, rushed out because governments all over the world are trying to stop meth cooks from getting ephedrine easily. Ephedrine actually stops you from feeling hungry.

Unfortunately, clen will become just as hard to get because the chinese government don't like it, and most of it comes from China.

I'm starting to feel quite protective of Ace. If I had a son, I think he'd be a bit mad. I'm thinking of adopting him, like when Monty Burns adopted young Bartholemew Simpson.

How about it Ace? Would you like to be my ward? Nothing gay or anything. I'm like one of those uncles who's a retired science teacher that spends all his time in his shed, building steam engines.

"Please excuse Ace. He's young, and sometimes his inquisitiveness gets the better of him". See? I'm doing it already!


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2012)

mmm 5 pages ? op you asked for 'medical evidence' i gave you the pubmed list on page 2 which had 1510 hits for clentbuterol for you to skim thro and read the ones you thought relevant and then make your own mind up on the drug.

things to look for when researching compounds >

is the site an independent medical one that uses multiple references=good

is the site tied to the drug (i.e does it make the drug ,bayer,glaxo kline etc) = stay away they only release the 'good' effects of the drug and downplay any bad, after all they want you to buy it)

....stay away from wiki , anyone can add to its database , its good for finding out things like when 'x' invented the bacon sandwich , its not a serious medical reference.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Zorrin said:


> I think clenbuterol is just a poor excuse for ephedrine, rushed out because governments all over the world are trying to stop meth cooks from getting ephedrine easily. Ephedrine actually stops you from feeling hungry.
> 
> Unfortunately, clen will become just as hard to get because the chinese government don't like it, and most of it comes from China.
> 
> ...


I considered getting a dog from a shelter that was blind and deaf a while back but decided against it. I think that would have involved less work than adopting 'ace'


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

Lesson one, don't be cheeky to Ausbuilt again.

Even when he comes on to one of my threads to contradict me, I'm secretly a little bit honoured. I feel like I've made it.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2012)

imo you can challenge anyone that provides info on here but >

make sure they are wrong

make sure you use the right references and they are relevant to the topic being discussed

personal experiences are a guide not an absolute -half or less of what someone else takes might do you harm.


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

Is quite dangerous I think. Hopefully only if used long term at heavy doses. But the results are dees. I read an article about how it affects the heart. I def feel my heart is weaker since taking stims :/ maybe im paranoid


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Like a Boss said:


> Is quite dangerous I think. Hopefully only if used long term at heavy doses. But the results are dees. I read an article about how it affects the heart. I def feel my heart is weaker since taking stims :/ maybe im paranoid


funny, if you read the posts, or google "harefield protocol" the NHS in the UK use 700mcg+ of clenbuterol to help patients with heart failure....


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## J H (May 13, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> funny, if you read the posts, or google "harefield protocol" the NHS in the UK use 700mcg+ of clenbuterol to help patients with heart failure....


Interesting read that. So if they are running it for between 3 and 12 months then i'm guessing that would imply that even long term use wouldnt have any harmful affects?


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00701116

I got to 400mcg but backed out after that.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> I seriously don't think you've ever taken enough of the drug make any difference to your physique.
> 
> If you look at the harefield protocol:
> 
> ...


Ok, a couple of points.

Have you read the inclusion criteria for that trial?

Clen was used yes, have you read the list of drugs that accompanied and/or preceeded the clen treatment?

Read about the MOA of these drugs and that might give you an insight into why clen alone was not used.

Sorry but another totally irrelevant study.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Mars said:


> Ok, a couple of points.
> 
> Have you read the inclusion criteria for that trial?
> 
> ...


yes, they where specific patients with a certain type of heart failure; they where given "maximal" doses of other drugs before being given clenbuterol, including blocking drugs.

However I wasn't saying anyone should go and jump on this protocol.... my point was the only evidence of clen being anabolic is some lean mass gain in these patients (and 4kg in 9+months is not a lot for a BB); but my other point was that these are patients with heart failure and they where given a lot of clenbuterol....

of course they probably couldnt cope if they where given the full dose immediately rather than adding 40mcg/day..


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> I seriously don't think you've ever taken enough of the drug make any difference to your physique.
> 
> If you look at the harefield protocol:
> 
> ...


For all of you who flamed me, for wanting a second opinion and not agreeing with what mars had to say? I WANT An APOLOGY!..... this is the **** i wanted!

Thank you so much ausbuilt, these studies are what i wanted to see, you're excellent seriously, i feel so much more comfy having this infomation behind me now, and i never knew clen to be as anabolic as that in higher dosages  so im quite suprised... brilliant infomation pal, seriously, no one can knock you.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

I've heard ass kissing like that from you before :whistling:


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> google "harefield protocol" and you'll see clen being used at 720mcg 3xday in humans with heart failure.
> 
> However, that doesn't mean go and take that dose- read carefully and understand what it means to "titrate the dose upwards"
> 
> ...


 So Clen never really killed people just gave them the common side effects of clenbuterol, and perhaps diahrea? so i believe clenbuterol isn't half as dangerous as made out to be by half the people on this forum... I love how people read about people falling ill with clenbuterol poisoning and so fourth, yet they just asume by "FALLING ILL" it either meant in resulting in death, or serious illness.... this is my point exactly? so many people read things without fully investigating what they read tell others what they've read "half heartedly", and then wham, everyone believes them and when someone disagrees they get flamed for it.... this is how steroids and enhancements get a bad name, not enough people want to investigate for themselves, they just believe what they get told... and this is the only reason they're banned in the uk along with most other drugs... cause they're miss understood, and because someone hears or reads about some kinda outbreak related to steroids or enhancements, and its instantly brought to one big drama.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> I've heard ass kissing like that from you before :whistling:


 Seriously im ass kissing Ausbuilt at this very point in time and i don't give a toss lol, and im not gonna lie about it, hes made my day  , lastnight i had to deal with getting flamed just because i disagreed with someone, then ausbuilt comes gives me exactly what i'm looking for, i'm in my element here... i knew it wasn't a bad drug and i knew it was all hype. so my point got proven really didn't it?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

No you just proved that you will agree with anyone that says what you want to hear. It is hard when something goes wrong with somebody to pinpoint it on 1 certain thing especially with peds as not many people tell there doctors what they are on anyway. When something has gone wrong with someone how can they show it is definitely clen? they probably cant in most cases but this doesnt mean that clen hasnt caused/contributed to it, it just means they cant prove it is that. You appear to be an expert on it already so why you needed to make this thread is beyond me.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Seriously im ass kissing Ausbuilt at this very point in time and i don't give a toss lol, and im not gonna lie about it, hes made my day  , lastnight i had to deal with getting flamed just because i disagreed with someone, then ausbuilt comes gives me exactly what i'm looking for, i'm in my element here... i knew it wasn't a bad drug and i knew it was all hype. so my point got proven really didn't it?


To be honest I dont see how it got proven at all.

You said above "So Clen never really killed people". But the quote you were refering to was about people eating meat, that had been given clen. Not directly taking clen themselves.

You can throw all the studies in the world at me regarding how 'safe' clen is, but the fact is it affects people differently, and the study in question uses patients with a certain heart condition. What if you had one of the other, numerous heart conditions? Or even a healthy heart? It doesnt account for those variables, the sample group is very specific by all accounts, which means the results are, at best, limited.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

AceOfSpadez said:


> For all of you who flamed me, for wanting a second opinion and not agreeing with what mars had to say? I WANT An APOLOGY!..... this is the **** i wanted!
> 
> Thank you so much ausbuilt, these studies are what i wanted to see, you're excellent seriously, i feel so much more comfy having this infomation behind me now, and i never knew clen to be as anabolic as that in higher dosages  so im quite suprised... brilliant infomation pal, seriously, no one can knock you.


FFS, i suggest you read my response to ausbuilts post, it means fcuk all except for the patients and the criteria that it was designed for.

Read the fcuking study FFS, unbelievable, how can someone be so damn thick.

As for an apology, the second word is off.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

kingdale said:


> No you just proved that you will agree with anyone that says what you want to hear. It is hard when something goes wrong with somebody to pinpoint it on 1 certain thing especially with peds as not many people tell there doctors what they are on anyway. When something has gone wrong with someone how can they show it is definitely clen? they probably cant in most cases but this doesnt mean that clen hasnt caused/contributed to it, it just means they cant prove it is that. You appear to be an expert on it already so why you needed to make this thread is beyond me.


Well paracetamol kills people? and causes more health complications reguarding the liver and has even resulted in people dying... look at heath ledger for example, died after taking pain killers? so yeah... most drugs if abused will cause problems... however clenbuterol at a dosage of 160mcg, isn't gonna harm you, and like my first post, at the beginning, i mentioned the rat studies they where using MGS of the stuff, on rats, which also had twice as much B2 receptors then humans anyhow... so 160mcg? is very unlikely to cause heart problems unless you've already got something serious underlying, and if thats the case, then even caffine would have the same amount of chance of killing you as clenbuterol, cause that also raises the heart rate.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Mars said:


> FFS, i suggest you read my response to ausbuilts post, it means fcuk all except for the patients and the criteria that it was designed for.
> 
> Read the fcuking study FFS, unbelievable, how can someone be so damn thick.
> 
> As for an apology, the second word is off.


Ok mars, ill read it, give me a second, and i still want an apology people have been being nasty to me just because i was after a second opinion, and why couldn't you have posted that up sooner mars it'd have been great use to me yesturday rather then today... i see we only get the best of your education on these drugs when its on a more competitive level.... pffttt... but i guess it will do.

Eitherway going off real life experiances with the drug and over 20 more of my pals who've taken it, im guessing that the drug is completely and utterly fine for most healthy people to take, and gain nice benefits from it.... obviously when you first posted, on this thread you came across like it's a high risk drug and to completely stear clear, well so far, it doesn't seem like it is, it seems like you perhaps exadurated clenbuterols effects a little on the heart... and for people who could use that drug with great results? you would have put them off using it? and i don't see why people should do that for no reason, its easy to get carried away though i guess... so in a way i do think it was just slight scare mongering on your behalf...

But i'll read stuff you posted up, and if i think you're right then i'll hold my hands up, cause im not here to be a tosser, i litterally just want all the cats out the bag, so the whole fear of clen and **** can be knocked on the head and all the rumours stop, cause im fedup with being put off drugs which could benefit me in my training just because someone decides to exadurate the side effects of the drug...


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

this guy is such a troll


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

:ban:


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

You're an arrogant little pr1ck.

What difference does it make for you if its proved clen isn't healthy or not?

You've took it and you've been fine as you say,so unless you are a manufacturer that is losing money why don't you let others that are genuinely worried ask the question,that way they won't be narrowminded about the answers people give to them?


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

you come across as totally self centered about your health...if you don't care about your own mortality at least you could show some feelings toward your family and friends that care about you...there are more important things in life than your poxy physique.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Sc4mp0 said:


> You're an arrogant little pr1ck.
> 
> What difference does it make for you if its proved clen isn't healthy or not?
> 
> You've took it and you've been fine as you say,so unless you are a manufacturer that is losing money why don't you let others that are genuinely worried ask the question,that way they won't be narrowminded about the answers people give to them?


I'm not an arrogant pr**k at all, i just hate people blowing smoke up other peoples asses, its not about worrying, its about over exadurating the effects which drugs have, which could benefit peoples goals, this is one of the reasons why steroids and other enahcements are banned in the uk... its stupid, if people learned how to use these drugs properly, they'd find that other drugs out their which have been banned could also have use, even perhaps medical use... I'm enthusiastic i like to learn, i don't always take what one person says as biblical, i like to hear mixed opinions and facts, and studies in the drugs.... it just ****es me clean off, when you got people saying this drugs bad and that drugs bad and this drug can kill you and that drug can kill you.... well truth be knowing, any drug can flaming kill you if you're daft with it... no one second questions, people just choose to believe, cause its easier to believe then find your own proof.

If you think this post was meant to get this out of hand, well it wasn't, infact this post may even help people, and help guide people in the correct use of clenbutero, it may educate people so they don't **** up with the drug.. no one sees from my point of view, just a bunch of assholes with their heads up their own ass... so go get ran.... freedom to think for myself, and believe what i want for myself, if i choose not to believe the first thing i'm told well ****ing SORRY...


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

justin case said:


> you come across as totally self centered about your health...if you don't care about your own mortality at least you could show some feelings toward your family and friends that care about you...there are more important things in life than your poxy physique.


Seriously am getting ****ed off now, read what i just wrote, i'm here cause i want to understand drugs, not because i want to kill myself with them or argue.... i love how out of hand things get when one person disagrees with the rest.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

kingdale said:


> this guy is such a troll


Yeah i troll now and again, but am actually getting angry, cause no one sees where im coming from half the time.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> i just hate people blowing smoke up other peoples asses, .


yea you never do that do you.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Ok mars, ill read it, give me a second, and i still want an apology people have been being nasty to me just because i was after a second opinion, and why couldn't you have posted that up sooner mars it'd have been great use to me yesturday rather then today... i see we only get the best of your education on these drugs when its on a more competitive level.... pffttt... but i guess it will do.
> 
> Eitherway going off real life experiances with the drug and over 20 more of my pals who've taken it, im guessing that the drug is completely and utterly fine for most healthy people to take, and gain nice benefits from it.... obviously when you first posted, on this thread you came across like it's a high risk drug and to completely stear clear, well so far, it doesn't seem like it is, it seems like you perhaps exadurated clenbuterols effects a little on the heart... and for people who could use that drug with great results? you would have put them off using it? and i don't see why people should do that for no reason, its easy to get carried away though i guess... so in a way i do think it was just slight scare mongering on your behalf...
> 
> But i'll read stuff you posted up, and if i think you're right then i'll hold my hands up, cause im not here to be a tosser, i litterally just want all the cats out the bag, so the whole fear of clen and **** can be knocked on the head and all the rumours stop, cause im fedup with being put off drugs which could benefit me in my training just because someone decides to exadurate the side effects of the drug...


Good on ya, read the inclusion criteria and all the other drugs they had to give to accompany and preceed the clen. If you read the MOA of these drugs you will see why they were added and why clen was not given alone.

I didn't exaggerate though, i did say the possibilty of death *was very rare* but still a possibilty.

But yes you are correct, most ppl can take clen without fear of dropping dead.


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

kingdale said:


> yea you never do that do you.


Nope.


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Mars said:


> Good on ya, read the inclusion criteria and all the other drugs they had to give to accompany and preceed the clen. If you read the MOA of these drugs you will see why they were added and why clen was not given alone.
> 
> I didn't exaggerate though, i did say the possibilty of death *was very rare* but still a possibilty.
> 
> But yes you are correct, most ppl can take clen without fear of dropping dead.


Well you can see what i mean by exadurate by reading what you said

Originally Posted by Mars

*You want to know if clen is dangerous, yes of course it is.*

First off why do you think it's banned for use in cattle? Because the effects of the clen remain in the meat and HAVE caused *serious illness*.

Second clen *can cause heart problems*, these effects can be cumulative, *this can kill you*.

Third, taking clen with an *undiagnosed heart condition can kill you.*

*
Get the picture .*

You're saying that its very very rare now, obviously reading the above, you can see the reason why i see it as exaduratative, and this is the reason i was after a second opinion, i feel more comfy now with taking the drug knowing what i've read from this thread now.

And i read the studies and yeah they used other drugs with the clenbuterol so i get the point yeah.


----------



## KRIS_B (Apr 17, 2011)

Ive sent Jeremy Kyle an email guys and he's agreed to come and join the forum and have his own section of the forum titled "tell Jeremy" so you'll be able to sort these roid squabbles out in quick time!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

KRIS_B said:


> Ive sent Jeremy Kyle an email guys and he's agreed to come and join the forum and have his own section of the forum titled "tell Jeremy" so you'll be able to sort these roid squabbles out in quick time!


I can see it now..

"I'm Jeremy Kyle.. your all scum!" :lol:


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

He already joined, but he didn't last long....


----------



## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well if thats your take on clenbuterol i don't want to know what your take on steroids is to be honest, but your avi says enough for me lol.... this is one of the main reasons i brought this thread to light, because theres so much scare mongering going around about clen, but so many people using it with no health related illnesses, I've used it and seen many others have used it with out a problem? so is there any proof that clenbuterol is as bad as made out to be? I've even ran T3 and Clen together, with absolutely 0 harmful side effects, only small ones which have been noted such as shivvers and slight increase in heart rate and a tempurary increase in Blood pressure.
> 
> Some people say clen is a safe drug, then others like you say its a dangerous drug, I honestly just want the cat out the bag already, anyone can go bad mouthing a drug saying it does this or that.
> 
> ...


Mars is one of the most educated men around when it comes to aas use and training so i think i would take his advise on it mate


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Mars said:


> FFS, i suggest you read my response to ausbuilts post, it means fcuk all except for the patients and the criteria that it was designed for.
> 
> Read the fcuking study FFS, unbelievable, how can someone be so damn thick.
> 
> As for an apology, the second word is off.


well like any study on people who are not healthy, you can't directly extrapolate; however, I'd rather take people studies over say cow studies (of course when it comes to tren, i'm basing my cycle of a cow study, well... its 80% the same as us! LOL maybe i do have that 3rd stomach- would explain my appetite! :lol: )

Its just like steroid studies in people are largely on AIDS/HIV patients these days; i don't have AIDS/HIV, so I dont take the cocktail of other drugs they do...

however whether its clen being used on a specific population with a specific type of heart failure, or HIV patients with a plethora of illnesses, the fact is they still cope quite fine with more clen or AAS than any healthy person would take.

However many OTHER drugs a person with heart failure takes, I'm sure I will be less stressed by clen than someone with heart failure; and if a HIV patient taking a bunch of hepatoxic anti-virals and other drugs can cope with oxys for 30 weeks at 150mg/day, I figure I should cope at least as well...

All this is not to say that all drugs are safe; even aspirin and paracetamol can kill you if misused, and in rare cases at normal doses..


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BigTrev said:


> Mars is one of the most educated men around when it comes to aas use and training so i think i would take his advise on it mate


Ace is a classic $hitstirrer I've come to realise :smartass:

but a discsussion can sometimes make you think.....

Just remember, if you read Ace's threads, he used/done a lot, but his pics would indicate perhaps not the expected results, so probably to much theory, not enough action! :lol:


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> Ace is a classic $hitstirrer I've come to realise :smartass:
> 
> but a discsussion can sometimes make you think.....
> 
> Just remember, if you read Ace's threads, he used/done a lot, but his pics would indicate perhaps not the expected results, so probably to much theory, not enough action! :lol:


Dude i never once uploaded a recent pick of me at my biggest, i only uploaded pics at my smallest to be fair, and most where old photos around my 3rd 2nd cycle... some even my 1st, and coming from someone who's only got 18inch biceps... and been on then since 20  you got no room to talk hahaha.

Look decently sized in your avi, but for your age and amount of time on gear, especially your dosages, you should have easily hit 20inch by now,


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Dude i never once uploaded a recent pick of me at my biggest, i only uploaded pics at my smallest to be fair, and most where old photos around my 3rd 2nd cycle... some even my 1st, and coming from someone who's only got 18inch biceps... and been on then since 20  you got no room to talk hahaha.
> 
> Look decently sized in your avi, but for your age and amount of time on gear, especially your dosages, you should have easily hit 20inch by now,


 :mellow: The baby wolf just challenged the daddy...


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> :mellow: The baby wolf just challenged the daddy...
> 
> View attachment 99584


Dude he won't have any ankles left by the time im finished with him, may beat me on science but if hes gonna diss mah ceps... then hes gotta back his **** up! YO DIG HOMIE!


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

onthebuild said:


> :mellow: The baby wolf just challenged the daddy...
> 
> View attachment 99584


 :lol:


----------



## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Dude i never once uploaded a recent pick of me at my biggest, i only uploaded pics at my smallest to be fair, and most where old photos around my 3rd 2nd cycle... some even my 1st, and coming from someone who's only got 18inch biceps... and been on then since 20  you got no room to talk hahaha.
> 
> Look decently sized in your avi, but for your age and amount of time on gear, especially your dosages, you should have easily hit 20inch by now,


Any recent pics mate


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Galaxy said:


> Any recent pics mate


peaked at 16 and a half inches around biceps unpumped, then got anxiety sevre depression, and quit and havent touched a weight in 9months, im starting back soon, so ill put picks up then.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> peaked at 16 and a half inches around biceps unpumped, then got anxiety sevre depression, and quit and havent touched a weight in 9months, im starting back soon, so ill put picks up then.


well, my biceps are 15.9" unflexed, just hanging by my sides...

and last night, in a bod pod, I was 104.5kg, and 8.1% BF....



as it says in the print out- am 6' tall and 42... so young sorcerer.... how big's your wand?? :lol:


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Dude i never once uploaded a recent pick of me at my biggest, i only uploaded pics at my smallest to be fair, and most where old photos around my 3rd 2nd cycle... some even my 1st, and coming from someone who's only got 18inch biceps... and been on then since 20  you got no room to talk hahaha.
> 
> Look decently sized in your avi, but for your age and amount of time on gear, especially your dosages, you should have easily hit 20inch by now,


i'm a senior exec in an investment bank; travel weekly around europe, and completing a PhD.. still manage to train..

I didnt train between 32-38, and only got back on gear at 39.. my biggest/best gains where in the past 18months on the large doses.

Yep, 18" arms, but 8.1% BF... check my journal; I plan to be 110 and about the same BF in Jan.... see if you can keep up with the old cvnt :double ****: :001_tt2:


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> well, my biceps are 15.9" unflexed, just hanging by my sides...
> 
> and last night, in a bod pod, I was 104.5kg, and 8.1% BF....
> 
> ...


Bloody youth!


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Well this is fun,it is a beta 2 agonist,it makes the heart grow(not fonder i am afraid)is that good?,,,,,not according to the specialists i take advice from,personaly i have used it twice,will never again,too many real life horror stories for me,advice can be taken or left.I am 49 and all bloods and heart is good,via FbC AND ecocardiogram(looks at heart,like a baby),still lift big and well,on gear on/off for 25 years.Better tolook/ listen than not, i learnt. i think clen with aas is lethal,it aint good by itself either.


----------



## lucs (Apr 8, 2011)

can i just ask what clen is and if it is bad for me :whistling:


----------



## leeds_01 (Aug 6, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> well, my biceps are 15.9" unflexed, just hanging by my sides...
> 
> and last night, in a bod pod, I was 104.5kg, and 8.1% BF....
> 
> ...


fuxck me thats spot on

print out from a bio bod pod thingy - how the fcxk can u top that??


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> i'm a senior exec in an investment bank; travel weekly around europe, and completing a PhD.. still manage to train..
> 
> I didnt train between 32-38, and only got back on gear at 39.. my biggest/best gains where in the past 18months on the large doses.
> 
> Yep, 18" arms, but 8.1% BF... check my journal; I plan to be 110 and about the same BF in Jan.... see if you can keep up with the old cvnt :double ****: :001_tt2:


Its impossible to put bodyfat on when you're on all the stuff your on, and thats not even close to a joke, i've seen this **** done in person, Peptides, hgh, t4, etc.... run them for like a year or some**** and the fat just keeps on melting even whilst you bulk, i seen people do it and whilst they bulk, they litterally put on 14lbs of muscle on in a full year and kept their bodyfat at exactly 8% throughout, eating over 500g of carbs a day or some ****.

And to be fair i lose bodyfat on just 800mg of test alone, and its quite a significant amount i find around week 10 of my cycle i've usually found myself dropping about 2inches on my waist line, **** what people say about it not burning fat, it happens nearly everytime i run a cycle, and lets face it you run like 2grams of that stuff with like 1gram of tren with god knows what else.... so yeah you can't exactly brag about your achievements since its 100% drugs with you.... people who take dosages as high as you are, are just trying to make up for otherstuff, perhaps diet? training etc.... cause lets face it anyone will grow on that amount of stuff, and lose body fat without even needing to put half the effort in

Tell you what? fund my steroids, give me a year supply of what your taking, and we'll see me easily pop upto 17inch all round at around 8% bodyfat, and within 3years i'll even probably hit 19" all round lol.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)




----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

its getting a bit tasty in here


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Its impossible to put bodyfat on when you're on all the stuff your on, and thats not even close to a joke, i've seen this **** done in person, Peptides, hgh, t4, etc.... run them for like a year or some**** and the fat just keeps on melting even whilst you bulk, i seen people do it and whilst they bulk, they litterally put on 14lbs of muscle on in a full year and kept their bodyfat at exactly 8% throughout, eating over 500g of carbs a day or some ****.
> 
> And to be fair i lose bodyfat on just 800mg of test alone, and its quite a significant amount i find around week 10 of my cycle i've usually found myself dropping about 2inches on my waist line, **** what people say about it not burning fat, it happens nearly everytime i run a cycle, and lets face it you run like 2grams of that stuff with like 1gram of tren with god knows what else.... so yeah you can't exactly brag about your achievements since its 100% drugs with you.... people who take dosages as high as you are, are just trying to make up for otherstuff, perhaps diet? training etc.... cause lets face it anyone will grow on that amount of stuff, and lose body fat without even needing to put half the effort in
> 
> Tell you what? fund my steroids, give me a year supply of what your taking, and we'll see me easily pop upto 17inch all round at around 8% bodyfat, and within 3years i'll even probably hit 19" all round lol.


That's got to be post of the year! Pmsl

What a complete load of toss!

Sums up your knowledge in one lame as fcuk post!

I have nothing against you at all btw, I think you're just another troll tbh, but this thread has provided me with some entertainment, so for that, I thank you!


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Its impossible to put bodyfat on when you're on all the stuff your on, and thats not even close to a joke, i've seen this **** done in person, Peptides, hgh, t4, etc.... run them for like a year or some**** and the fat just keeps on melting even whilst you bulk, i seen people do it and whilst they bulk, they litterally put on 14lbs of muscle on in a full year and kept their bodyfat at exactly 8% throughout, eating over 500g of carbs a day or some ****.
> 
> And to be fair i lose bodyfat on just 800mg of test alone, and its quite a significant amount i find around week 10 of my cycle i've usually found myself dropping about 2inches on my waist line, **** what people say about it not burning fat, it happens nearly everytime i run a cycle, and lets face it you run like 2grams of that stuff with like 1gram of tren with god knows what else.... so yeah you can't exactly brag about your achievements since its 100% drugs with you.... people who take dosages as high as you are, are just trying to make up for otherstuff, perhaps diet? training etc.... cause lets face it anyone will grow on that amount of stuff, and lose body fat without even needing to put half the effort in
> 
> Tell you what? fund my steroids, give me a year supply of what your taking, and we'll see me easily pop upto 17inch all round at around 8% bodyfat, and within 3years i'll even probably hit 19" all round lol.


maybe its the drugs... maybe its my overall approach,as this is how I bulked/dieted for the past 18months to from 23.9% to 8.1% BF:

bulk:

http://www.synthetek.com/growth-principles-for-beginners-by-big-a/

diet:

http://www.synthetek.com/dieting-and-getting-ready-for-competition-by-big-a/

never made a secret of how I did it...

as for going forward, all I can say is mooo!

See:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/199804-cbl-diet-anabolic-fusion-labs-test-tren-450-bsi-water-based-site-shots.html


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> That's got to be post of the year! Pmsl
> 
> What a complete load of toss!
> 
> ...


Well unless you try it, shut your face, i'm not even joking the amount of stuff he takes it'll be easy as **** keeping that bodyfat percentage, i know people who're taking the same **** hes taking and i swear they even find it difficult getting past 10% if you wana believe what you want believe it, i've seen it, i've even been told by the lad taking the ****... his words "i can bulk all year around and keep below 10% bodyfat" hes just recently won his catagory aswell, hes a very popular and well known person in this sport also...

If we all had the money to fund half the stuff ausbuilts taking we'd see things from a different point of view im tellin yah!, but yeh, the lad i spoke with is proof hes not talking ****.

its peptides and HGH and T4 and stuff, it just melts away at your bodyfat, especially at dosages like 10iu 5days a week with say peptides included, and t4, etc etc, aswell as tren increasing your body heat and having an affect of lyposis on the body, it all comes together perfectly.


----------



## lucs (Apr 8, 2011)

taxi


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well unless you try it, shut your face, i'm not even joking the amount of stuff he takes it'll be easy as **** keeping that bodyfat percentage, i know people who're taking the same **** hes taking and i swear they even find it difficult getting past 10% if you wana believe what you want believe it, i've seen it, i've even been told by the lad taking the ****... his words "i can bulk all year around and keep below 10% bodyfat" hes just recently won his catagory aswell, hes a very popular and well known person in this sport also...
> 
> If we all had the money to fund half the stuff ausbuilts taking we'd see things from a different point of view im tellin yah!, but yeh, the lad i spoke with is proof hes not talking ****.


Lol ok then, that's great!

Money to fund a few grams of test a week? Anyone already using could afford that anyway! Hardly breaking the bank is it when you do the sums!

Genetics play no role at all here do they!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well unless you try it, shut your face, i'm not even joking the amount of stuff he takes it'll be easy as **** keeping that bodyfat percentage, i know people who're taking the same **** hes taking and i swear they even find it difficult getting past 10% if you wana believe what you want believe it, i've seen it, i've even been told by the lad taking the ****... his words "i can bulk all year around and keep below 10% bodyfat" *hes just recently won his catagory aswell*, hes a very popular and well known person in this sport also...
> 
> If we all had the money to fund half the stuff ausbuilts taking we'd see things from a different point of view im tellin yah!, but yeh, the lad i spoke with is proof hes not talking ****.
> 
> its peptides and HGH and T4 and stuff, it just melts away at your bodyfat, especially at dosages like 10iu 5days a week with say peptides included, and t4, etc etc, aswell as tren increasing your body heat and having an affect of lyposis on the body, it all comes together perfectly.


 :blink: oooo your friends with phil heath? :wub:


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> Lol ok then, that's great!
> 
> Money to fund a few grams of test a week? Anyone already using could afford that anyway! Hardly breaking the bank is it when you do the sums!
> 
> Genetics play no role at all here do they!


Infact year genetics may have a lot to do with it also now that you bring that up... but still, none the less.

And im not on about me and my small dosage of test here, i'm on about HGH, peptides, and t4, and so fourth in conjunction with all the other **** he takes... obviously genetics also... it all adds up nicely.


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> 100g of test powder costs about £120 delivered. you need about 4g to make 250mg/ml vial- so that's 25 vials...
> 
> 2g would be 8mL/week or 2.5g/week for 25 weeks at £120..
> 
> I don't think anyone can complain about the costs; its like anything- cheaper if you make your own....


Holy ****... im not even on about the test im on about EVERYTHINNGGGG, the peptides and the HGH along with the t4/t3 < they all cause insane fatloss if you combine them all together. and they cost an absolute bomb.


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Spending more time on this forum then i am with my social life at this very moment in time arguing about daft things... **** it im out for a few hours to destress... if you guys want to make an OPEN thread for us to argue more on our debates then please do so by making one, but as for this thread, im happy with it, being left about clenbuterol, it helps people understand the drug a little more clearly and others can use it, keeping silly petty arguments and debates is just destroying it.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well unless you try it, shut your face, i'm not even joking the amount of stuff he takes it'll be easy as **** keeping that bodyfat percentage, i know people who're taking the same **** hes taking and i swear they even find it difficult getting past 10% if you wana believe what you want believe it, i've seen it, i've even been told by the lad taking the ****... his words "i can bulk all year around and keep below 10% bodyfat" hes just recently won his catagory aswell, hes a very popular and well known person in this sport also...
> 
> If we all had the money to fund half the stuff ausbuilts taking we'd see things from a different point of view im tellin yah!, but yeh, the lad i spoke with is proof hes not talking ****.
> 
> its peptides and HGH and T4 and stuff, it just melts away at your bodyfat, especially at dosages like 10iu 5days a week with say peptides included, and t4, etc etc, aswell as tren increasing your body heat and having an affect of lyposis on the body, it all comes together perfectly.


If you use 10iu HgH/day with peps you will blunt the peps pulse,you have no idea on there use so i would not post that kind of thing unless you have a clue,makes you look .....erm....


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

biglbs said:


> If you use 10iu HgH/day with peps you will blunt the peps pulse,you have no idea on there use so i would not post that kind of thing unless you have a clue,makes you look .....erm....


Maybe they use the peptides when they're having a break from HGH i dunno their protocol i just know they use it... either with HGH or not with HGH, what i got told was, HGH is synthetic, where as peptides helps keep the piturity gland still producing even whilst taking the synthetic hormone of HGH... so yeah? i got no studies on that but ausbuilt will tell us.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Maybe they use the peptides when they're having a break from HGH i dunno their protocol i just know they use it... either with HGH or not with HGH, what i got told was, HGH is synthetic, where as peptides helps keep the piturity gland still producing even whilst taking the synthetic hormone of HGH... so yeah? i got no studies on that but ausbuilt will tell us.


No, i will tell you,they are used with or without Synth Gh, if with- max 2iu Gh,with 100mcg approx of most peps for your weight,there is a load of stickies if you wanna know more Pm me,only if your gonna use.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> well its up to you i guess- it could be that it costs you an arm and a leg, or your ass :lol:


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

So much for not discussing prices... :whistling:


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> So much for not discussing prices... :whistling:


nothing you cant find by googling... or going on **True, but you know it's gainst the rules as is posting the site i just deleted, so why do you think it's ok for you to break the rules**or any of the USA based boards


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

No price discussion thank you very much.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Man this thread made me laugh.

You talk about how people are too lazy to research and how theyre happier to believe the first thing someone says, yet refuse to do any research yourself or read the links posted.

You want it all on a plate it seems! first you want people to do your dirty work and find and post the studies for you to read and then you go on to ask for them to fund your gear for you. :lol:


----------



## BodyBuilding101 (Mar 8, 2006)

Even if someone funded his gear and paid him to eat, train and sleep i doubt he'd accomplish much :innocent:


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Man this thread made me laugh.
> 
> You talk about how people are too lazy to research and how theyre happier to believe the first thing someone says, yet refuse to do any research yourself or read the links posted.
> 
> You want it all on a plate it seems! first you want people to do your dirty work and find and post the studies for you to read and then you go on to ask for them to fund your gear for you. :lol:


I was joking about funding me my gear god... they could tamper with it or do anything, my point was if i was taking half the **** hes probably taking i'd probz be 8% also. with nicely sized arms.


----------



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

BodyBuilding101 said:


> Even if someone funded his gear and paid him to eat, train and sleep i doubt he'd accomplish much :innocent:


Well i've already accomplished more then most in the way of gains, however i've never been credited for it, cause no ones taken much note of this before and after picture.


----------



## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

jesus is this thread still going? i would have thought you would have found the info you requested in the link i gave you on page 2 (this isnt including links posted by other ppl) , as for not being credited for what you have achieved -well done , however in life as you get older you will find you do alot of things for other ppl that you dont get any credit for.

read the links ppl have posted to help you and make your own mind up about what you want to do , all you are doing atm is making yourself look very immature.

nothing is 100% you will have to make your own decisions in life , whether you agree about someone elses AAS use or what colour car they have is irrelevant.


----------



## MA1984 (Jul 5, 2012)

Ace of spades, by reading through this thread, 2 things are clear to me:

1. You are a douchebag

2. You are a arrogant cvnt


----------



## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

how is this thread not locked?

'ace' is trolling massively.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

m118 said:


> how is this thread not locked?
> 
> 'ace' is trolling massively.


Shoot him mate.. :lol:


----------



## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

AceOfSpadez said:


> This is not true one bit, if someone was on clen and they found themselves having heart issues or being rushed into hospital, when they recovered if they did, if they mentioned what happpened and there though was clen which caused it, then it would make people more cautious of this drug, and it would give us a little bit of a warning of the stuff... but thing is... i've never heard any storys or seen anyone get ill from it?


I suffered heart failure in 2011 whilst taking clen and T3, I would back up Mars on this one, I have ECG, MRI and one of the best cardiologists in the country who all attest this to these drugs.

I had a previously undiagnosed condition which obviously I didn't know about and wouldn't have taken if I did but how many fit and healthy 29 year olds would?

Clen is dangerous, but so are half the drugs used in bodybuilding.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> nothing you cant find by googling... or going on **True, but you know it's gainst the rules as is posting the site i just deleted, so why do you think it's ok for you to break the rules**or any of the USA based boards


thanks for the edit/warning Mars. Appreciate it.



dtlv said:


> No price discussion thank you very much.


apologies; I should've restrained myself..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Well i've already accomplished more then most in the way of gains, however i've never been credited for it, cause no ones taken much note of this before and after picture.
> 
> View attachment 99603


thats becuase in one pic you're 12... so that doesn't count! :lol:

yes you did bulk up and get some big (but smooth) guns, but easy come, easy go..... its about what you keep, not just gain in the first place...


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Locked this now as its getting more and more off track.


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