# HGH @ 4iu and Liver problems



## imike (Aug 11, 2013)

i started HGH @ 4iu somatropin Pharmagrade a great source for 3 weeks, i felt the effects kicking in and little swelling in joints and my recovery got better.

im 27 5'9 185lbs

I did bloodwork for liver:

and my ALT or SGOT: 100 above range

and AST or SGPT: 65 above range

i ve been weightlifting for years and consuming like 180g of protein a day and i dont take anything but protein.

Could the HGH might be the problem? is it common ? why are the enzymes are high ?

Thanks in advance


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## warsteiner (Jul 15, 2013)

Did you have bloodwork for your liver before you started GH? If not maybe the values were high before you started GH.

There is some evidence that GH can elevate liver values but it is mild and returns to normal after stopping the GH - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10941966



> BACKGROUND:
> 
> Occasional and transient increase in liver enzymes is reported during growth hormone (GH) treatment in girls with Turner syndrome
> 
> ...


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

I wouldnt say your ALT or AST levels were of any level to be concerned about.

Are you runnning any orals ?

When I last had mine checked my ALT and AST levels were in 350+ and I had been free from any juice for 6 months, I had though been running Keto diet.

ALT and AST rises normally when high levels of enzymes are released, could be from a simple virus to something more serious.


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## imike (Aug 11, 2013)

warsteiner said:


> Did you have bloodwork for your liver before you started GH? If not maybe the values were high before you started GH.
> 
> There is some evidence that GH can elevate liver values but it is mild and returns to normal after stopping the GH - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10941966
> 
> In this case 3.8% of patients had a mild increase in liver values after 6-12 months of GH so I doubt if the GH would have caused this large increase in values in 3 weeks. If you are worried you should stop the GH for a couple of weeks and then get another set of bloodwork and see what your liver values are then.


yes i did blood work and everything was fine, i once had high alt and ast but they were in the upper arc not like this time and i only take creatine and whey protein... could the high amount of protein cause that ? thank you for the research btw


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## imike (Aug 11, 2013)

Goose said:


> I wouldnt say your ALT or AST levels were of any level to be concerned about.
> 
> Are you runnning any orals ?
> 
> ...


not really im not running anything

from what ur saying u had Keto diet that caused an elevation in ALT and AST and to my knowledge keto diet is very high in protein and fats right? so maybe the high protein diet im running might be causing that ?


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

imike said:


> i started HGH @ 4iu somatropin Pharmagrade a great source for 3 weeks, i felt the effects kicking in and little swelling in joints and my recovery got better.
> 
> im 27 5'9 185lbs
> 
> ...


180g of protein a day....wheres the rest of it.


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## warsteiner (Jul 15, 2013)

180g of protein isn't considered high. It's higher than GP's recommend but not high enough to cause liver problems. I normally have around 200g protein per day and the last time my liver values were measured (3 months ago) they were right in the middle of the normal range.

Did you train in the days before having this bloodtest but didn't in your previous test? - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/



> Muscular exercise can cause highly pathological liver function tests in healthy men
> 
> Aim
> 
> ...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

warsteiner said:


> 180g of protein isn't considered high. It's higher than GP's recommend but not high enough to cause liver problems. I normally have around 200g protein per day and the last time my liver values were measured (3 months ago) they were right in the middle of the normal range.
> 
> Did you train in the days before having this bloodtest but didn't in your previous test? - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/
> 
> *This is something I seen other people mention on boards. They have had a bloodtest the day after lifting and the liver values are very high. They haven't done any lifting for the next week or so, kept the same diet, had another bloodtest and the liver values were normal.*


are you sure you are on about Liver values and not creatinine that effects the kidneys??

that amount of protein will not cause issues with your liver values unless you have an underlying issue.


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## imike (Aug 11, 2013)

warsteiner said:


> 180g of protein isn't considered high. It's higher than GP's recommend but not high enough to cause liver problems. I normally have around 200g protein per day and the last time my liver values were measured (3 months ago) they were right in the middle of the normal range.
> 
> Did you train in the days before having this bloodtest but didn't in your previous test? - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/
> 
> This is something I seen other people mention on boards. They have had a bloodtest the day after lifting and the liver values are very high. They haven't done any lifting for the next week or so, kept the same diet, had another bloodtest and the liver values were normal.


this is very helpful, when they say "Weightlifting" do they mean olympic lifting? cuz thats mainly what i do.. Squats, deadlifts, clean and snatches etc..

ill try to stop for a week and test again. so we are agreeing its not the HGH ? cuz i know hgh enlarge the organs somehow and makes the liver release more IGF. i rly dont know the science behind it but i hope its not the hgh


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## imike (Aug 11, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> are you sure you are on about Liver values and not creatinine that effects the kidneys??
> 
> that amount of protein will not cause issues with your liver values unless you have an underlying issue.


hey man, since hgh makes ur liver release igf and enlarge the organs, do u think that has to do with anything? thanks


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

imike said:


> hey man, since hgh makes ur liver release igf and enlarge the organs, do u think that has to do with anything? thanks


no mate i think you are stretching here, yes HGH converts to IGF-1 in the liver but this is also a natural event that happens several times a day to every living being on the planet, it can be argued by supplementing with HGH this could make this process worse but to date i have yet to see any evidence to show that unless you are using massive doses of HGH every day there is any evidence to show this happens.

the best thing you can do is to come off everything just to make sure and see how this effects things.


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## imike (Aug 11, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> no mate i think you are stretching here, yes HGH converts to IGF-1 in the liver but this is also a natural event that happens several times a day to every living being on the planet, it can be argued by supplementing with HGH this could make this process worse but to date i have yet to see any evidence to show that unless you are using massive doses of HGH every day there is any evidence to show this happens.
> 
> the best thing you can do is to come off everything just to make sure and see how this effects things.


ok one last thing, dont u think that on the contrary that HGH is suppose to heal the liver incase there would might be anything ? do u agree?

Thank you btw i trust ur judgement


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

imike said:


> not really im not running anything
> 
> from what ur saying u had Keto diet that caused an elevation in ALT and AST and to my knowledge keto diet is very high in protein and fats right? so maybe the high protein diet im running might be causing that ?


No Keto is high good fats, Low/Med protein and trace carbs. Utilising fat stores for energy. Intake too much protein and you risk gluconeogenesis where the body breaks down protein into glucose and used for energy. The idea here is you want to use fat stores for energy.

I dont think Keto plays a part in the elevation of your ALT or AST im just saying it was a coincidence mine were raised AND I was doing Keto.. Who knows!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

imike said:


> ok one last thing, dont u think that on the contrary that HGH is suppose to heal the liver incase there would might be anything ? do u agree?
> 
> Thank you btw i trust ur judgement


the Liver heals itself, i do not believe HGH is involved in this process (well not from an external point of view)



Goose said:


> No Keto is high good fats, Low/Med protein and trace carbs. Utilising fat stores for energy. Intake too much protein and you risk gluconeogenesis where the body breaks down protein into glucose and used for energy. The idea here is you want to use fat stores for energy.
> 
> I dont think Keto plays a part in the elevation of your ALT or AST im just saying it was a coincidence mine were raised AND I was doing Keto.. Who knows!


your body does not just use Protein when it is in gluconeogenesis, the term simply means it is the metabolic process in which glucose is formed, mostly in the liver, from non-carbohydrate precursors this can be from fat as well.....

it is not an entirely bad thing to have your body switch from using Glycogen and Glucagon pathways for energy....


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> the Liver heals itself, i do not believe HGH is involved in this process (well not from an external point of view)
> 
> your body does not just use Protein when it is in gluconeogenesis, the term simply means it is the metabolic process in which glucose is formed, mostly in the liver, from non-carbohydrate precursors this can be from fat as well.....
> 
> it is not an entirely bad thing to have your body switch from using Glycogen and Glucagon pathways for energy....


Ok so are you saying that increasing protein will not have an affect on fat burning when in a ketogenic state? Cheers


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Goose said:


> Ok so are you saying that increasing protein will not have an affect on fat burning when in a ketogenic state? Cheers


No what i said was that the process called gluconeogenesis is where the body breakdowns Amino Acids (protein) and Fatty Free Acids (fat) for the body to use as a energy source in the absence of Glycogen (carbs).....

as for your question above, increasing Protein may have an effect on fat burning via TEF as breaking down protein requires more energy than other Macro's.........but it certainly would not be that noticeable....are you saying that TEF has a big impact on fat burning when it is increased?


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> No what i said was that the process called gluconeogenesis breakdown fat and pro for energy.....
> 
> as for your question above, increasing Protein may have an effect on fat burning via TEF as breaking down protein requires more energy than other Macro's.........but it certainly would not be that noticeable....are you saying that TEF has a big impact on fat burning when it is increased?


Yes and that was my point exactly. Gluconeogensis is the process where fat and protein are broken down for energy, too much protein intake will resort in the body untilising this macro for energy and as you rightly state it may have an effect on fat burning via TEF. I personally have tried high and low protein Keto 'style' diets and found minimal difference. I do believe however that irregularities with meals over days will affect and reduce TEF, whether this has an affect on fat burning, who knows?

Digesting and processing protein takes significantly more energy thatn carbs or fat, and carbs take more energy to process than fats therfore it leads you to believe that perhaps increasing protein intake whilst restricting calorie intake would allow for maximum TEF.. . Just my 2p's worth


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

It does lead you to believe this but the effect is minimal in my opinion and understanding from the studies I have read.

To much protein as you say will only be broken down for energy if carbohydrates are not present, if they are then this process will not happen as by default the body will always use the glycogen pathway for energy, you are correct if by this you mean in the absence of carbs then the existing pool of Protein and/or lean tissue will be converted to an energy source via gluconeogenesis....along with fats......

I think we are in agreement about glucagon and glycogen pathways but are disagreeing on the fat burning effect that TEF will have on body fat stores


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## Leetflex (Jan 9, 2014)

imike said:


> i started HGH @ 4iu somatropin Pharmagrade a great source for 3 weeks, i felt the effects kicking in and little swelling in joints and my recovery got better.
> 
> im 27 5'9 185lbs
> 
> ...


Weight training can cause elevated ALT and AST have the test done again with no hard physical activity for ten days.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291230/

"The liver function parameters, AST and ALT, were significantly increased for at least 7 days after the exercise. In addition, LD and, in particular, CK and myoglobin showed highly elevated levels. These findings highlight the importance of imposing restrictions on weightlifting prior to and during clinical studies. Intensive muscular exercise, e.g. weightlifting, should also be considered as a cause of asymptomatic elevations of liver function tests in daily clinical practice."


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