# carb macros?



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Carbohydrates (also called saccharides) are molecular compounds made from just three elements: carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.

Micro nutrients are the key, macros are just empty vessels.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Macros smacros... ^_^


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## Tren's physique (Feb 13, 2016)

banzi said:


> Carbohydrates (also called saccharides) are molecular compounds made from just three elements: carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.
> 
> Micro nutrients are the key, macros are just empty vessels.


 Wait... What? The key to what?


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

Tren's physique said:


> Wait... What? The key to what?


 Opening the door


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

babyarm said:


> *Opening the door*


 To build muscle


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## UK2USA (Jan 30, 2016)

Then Banzi is the key master?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

You are in charge of your own key


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## Tren's physique (Feb 13, 2016)

babyarm said:


> Opening the door


 Or the chastity belt


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

Natty Steve'o said:


> To build muscle


 Pandora?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

CALORIES HAVE NO NUTRITIONAL VALUE.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Calories may or may not have nutritional value would be a better statement.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

What a silly post

a calorie is a measure of energy. Nothing more nothing less. And you need energy, regardless of nutritional content.

Micro nutrients are essential too, but by different mechanism.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> What a silly post
> 
> a calorie is a measure of energy. Nothing more nothing less. And you need energy, regardless of nutritional content.
> 
> Micro nutrients are essential too, but by different mechanism.


 Calories don't build muscle, according to banzi.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> What a silly post
> 
> a calorie is a measure of energy. Nothing more nothing less. And you need energy, regardless of nutritional content.
> 
> Micro nutrients are essential too, but by different mechanism.


 the point you seem to be missing is that all these IIFYM tools seems to believe you just have to track your macros and bingo everything's fine, however your carb macros contain zero nutritional value, pretty much in the same way do your fats, protein macros contain amino acids so they differ in that way.

So its really all about micro nutrients. look after the micros and the macros will look after themselves, it doesn't work the other way around.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

this post really needs tommy bananas.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> this post really needs tommy bananas.


 truth is if you just wanted to track calories and macros you could just eat refined sugar and vegetable oil and take BCAAs

You would hit your targets every day, so surely its not an issue.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

banzi said:


> truth is if you just wanted to track calories and macros you could just eat refined sugar and vegetable oil and take BCAAs
> 
> You would hit your targets every day, so surely its not an issue.


 if only he was here to argue the point, I feel he could really make this thread work for you.


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> Carbohydrates (also called saccharides) are molecular compounds made from just three elements: carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.
> 
> Micro nutrients are the key, macros are just empty vessels.


 can you elaborate I am interested in more information on this.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

with the exception of sugar, what carb sources have no nutritional value?


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

What if you're calorie counting to ensure you don't over eat but you're still eating nutritious food?


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

I agree with the general principal but not sure I would treat fats with the same contempt as carbs. A carb is pretty much a carb and from a health perspective it is the micros and fiber bundled with the carbs that add the nutritional value. Fats are perhaps the most diverse and complex of the three macros and there are a number of essential fatty acids that contribute to health and hormonal balance. But yes, IIFYM as practiced by most is just an excuse to follow an unhealthy lifestyle and eating chicken, rice and broccoli 4 times a day is not any better.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Carbs taste good


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> truth is if you just wanted to track calories and macros you could *just eat refined sugar *and vegetable oil and take BCAAs
> 
> You would hit your targets every day, so surely its not an issue.


 ..and become a diabetic....


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Ian_Montrose said:


> I agree with the general principal but not sure I would treat fats with the same contempt as carbs. A carb is pretty much a carb and from a health perspective it is the micros and fiber bundled with the carbs that add the nutritional value. Fats are perhaps the most diverse and complex of the three macros and there are a number of essential fatty acids that contribute to health and hormonal balance. But yes, IIFYM as practiced by most is just an excuse to follow an unhealthy lifestyle and eating chicken, rice and broccoli 4 times a day is not any better.


 I use IIFYM.

I do not however use it as an excuse to just eat what ever I fancy,

As with any diet it is down to the person. I for one know that in terms of a calorie vs a calorie 300 from broccoli is the same as 300 from a chocolate bar, but not when you go deeper and look at the micro nutrients, fibre, vitamin c iron ect in the broccoli.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> with the exception of sugar, what carb sources have no nutritional value?


 carbs themselves have no nutritional value, they are simply a blend of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

Fats are also just a blend of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Turn a blind eye on a nitrogen atom and you can say the same for amino acids and protein in general.


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> the point you seem to be missing is that all these IIFYM tools seems to believe you just have to track your macros and bingo everything's fine, however your carb macros contain zero nutritional value, pretty much in the same way do your fats, protein macros contain amino acids so they differ in that way.
> 
> So its really all about micro nutrients. look after the micros and the macros will look after themselves, it doesn't work the other way around.


 YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IIFYM.

That is the issue here.

The correct use of iifym is to eat nutrionally dense foods while leaving a small amount of room to have foods you enjoy.

This allows you to enjoy your diet more, have a more varied diet (rather than the same foods everyday, which itself can cause problems), not need "cheat days" (which are counter-productive) etc.

IIFYM is not eating mac and cheese to get your macros. That is for people who do not use IIFYM properly.

tldr - you just cannot accept the reality.


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

nitrogen said:


> ..and become a diabetic....


 Sugar doesn't cause diabetes


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IIFYM.
> 
> That is the issue here.
> 
> ...


 IIFYM

The phrase If It Fits Your Macros (often abbreviated to IIFYM) refers to meeting the individual macronutrient needs relevant to one's goals and then filling the remaining calories with foods of personal preference. Meaning, eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros.

What "eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros" means is basically, eat right, but don't get all caught up in the whole 'clean vs dirty' food debate that seems to still go on.* If you want to eat whole grain bread, oats, brown rice, etc. etc. Then do it. If you want to eat white bread, white rice, and pop tarts, as long as it fits in with your other macronutrients and your goals in terms of caloric intake then it isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run.* It all comes down to personal preference.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

banzi said:


> carbs themselves have no nutritional value, they are simply a blend of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.


 but what can you eat that is 100% carbs apart from simple sugars? or are you only applying this logic to people who think (like in your example) that they could hit macros using sugar, oil and bcaa?

or are you also applying it to people who will only eat carb sources like fruit and veg?

or am i being dim and missing the point of this thread?


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> IIFYM
> 
> The phrase If It Fits Your Macros (often abbreviated to IIFYM) refers to meeting the individual macronutrient needs relevant to one's goals and then filling the remaining calories with foods of personal preference. Meaning, eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros.
> 
> What "eat whatever you want as long as it fits your macros" means is basically, eat right, but don't get all caught up in the whole 'clean vs dirty' food debate that seems to still go on.* If you want to eat whole grain bread, oats, brown rice, etc. etc. Then do it. If you want to eat white bread, white rice, and pop tarts, as long as it fits in with your other macronutrients and your goals in terms of caloric intake then it isn't going to make much of a difference in the long run.* It all comes down to personal preference.


 Where is that from? Some random blog that half backs up your point.

No one with a brain that advocates IIFYM advises not eating a solid base of micro nutrient dense foods.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> but what can you eat that is 100% carbs apart from simple sugars? or are you only applying this logic to people who think (like in your example) that they could hit macros using sugar, oil and bcaa?
> 
> or are you also applying it to people who will only eat carb sources like fruit and veg?
> 
> or am i being dim and missing the point of this thread?


 Im saying the choice of carb sources are important (because of the micro nutrient content) as opposed to just any carbs.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> Where is that from? Some random blog that half backs up your point.
> 
> No one with a brain that advocates IIFYM advises not eating a solid base of micro nutrient dense foods.


 find me another definition then

so is white bread or brown bread the best, is oats or Cheerios best?


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

Isomaltose vs maltose?


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

banzi said:


> Im saying the choice of carb sources are important (because of the micro nutrient content) as opposed to just any carbs.


 Which carbs do you generally advocate sticking to @banzi ? Srs question.

I don't follow IIFYM, I only tend to eat clean but do count my calories. Interested in your view on different carb sources.


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> find me another definition then
> 
> so is white bread or brown bread the best, is oats or Cheerios best?


 Neither.

Circumstantial.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> Neither.
> 
> Circumstantial.


 dont forget the definition.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ancient_loyal said:


> Which carbs do you generally advocate sticking to @banzi ? Srs question.
> 
> I don't follow IIFYM, I only tend to eat clean but do count my calories. Interested in your view on different carb sources.


 I eat whatever I like.,


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## Sustanation (Jan 7, 2014)

banzi said:


> carbs themselves have no nutritional value, they are simply a blend of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.


 I would say that depends on where you are looking from an extreme example....Ifyou on an island with no food and after 2 weeks I come along with some carbsI guarantee the nutritional value of a carbohydrate would be very high.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> I eat whatever I like.,


 So type up what you eat on a typical day, give us an idea.

Because I'm willing to bet 'whatever you like' is going to comprise of mainly 'clean' foods and in moderation. You've just grown to 'like' it because you are so accustomed to it.


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

banzi said:


> dont forget the definition.


*
What Is IIFYM?
*

IIFYM stands for *If It Fits Your Macros*. "Macros" is short for *macronutrients*, which in this context refers to *protein*, *fat* and *carbs*. And even though calories are not a macronutrient (rather, it's your macros that provide your calories), *calorie intake* is included in this as well.

And what If It Fits Your Macros is, is something a bit different than clean eating. Different how? There is no list of specific foods/food groups you must eat or avoid. There are no specific dietary rules, restrictions, and allowances you must adhere to. There's no strictness and structure that must be followed.

What there is however is the freedom and flexibility to do what suits your personal dietary preferences.

Can you eat this food? Sure&#8230; *if it fits your macros*.

Simple as that.

As long as your total daily calorie, protein, fat and carb intake is what it needs to be for your goal, you can get those calories and macronutrients from whatever food sources you want (good, bad, clean, dirty, etc.) and consume them in whatever manner (food combinations, meal timing, meal schedules, diet organization, etc.) you want.

*
Common Misconceptions
*

There's primarily only one major misconception about IIFYM (and it's why I'd much rather refer to this approach as "*flexible eating*" rather than "If It Fits Your Macros"), but there are two different points of view it comes from.

The misconception itself is simply that *IIFYM = eating s**t all day*.

That IIFYM supposedly entails avoiding stuff like fruits and vegetables or really just whole, natural, nutrient dense, higher quality foods in general. Or, to put it another way, avoiding the types of foods most people consider "good" and "clean" and "healthy" in favor of the types of foods most people consider "bad" and "dirty" and "unhealthy."

You supposedly just eat whatever you want with reckless abandon so long as you end up at the right calorie and macronutrient totals at the end of the day.

Now from the clean eating side, this is the misconception they base most (if not all) of their opinions on. "IIFYM? Ha! Good luck eating nothing but candy, cookies and Pop-Tarts all day."

The other point of view is actually from the IIFYM side in that there are people who somehow came to this style of eating expecting this misconception to be true. And so they make sure their calorie, protein, fat and carb intake is what it needs to be, and they proceed to get those calories/macronutrients primarily (or entirely) from junky "low quality" garbage&#8230; often with no attention given to stuff like fiber, omega-3's, calcium or micronutrients in general.

The misconception is basically that IIFYM is all one big 24/7/365 cheat day.

This of course is *100% wrong*. And *100% stupid*.

There you go.


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

DLTBB said:


> So type up what you eat on a typical day, give us an idea.
> 
> Because I'm willing to bet 'whatever you like' is going to comprise of mainly 'clean' foods and in moderation. You've just grown to 'like' it because you are so accustomed to it.


 He will no doubt also have a chocolate bar or 2 in there.....just like IIFYM folks do.

But because other folks call it IIFYM and not ''what ever I like'' its fine.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Don't get why this whole argument keeps coming up. Use it responsibly, eat decent whole, so called clean, food 90% of the time and don't sweat it when you get caught short now and then and have to eat something else the other 10% of the time.

some people can self regulate with tracking macros/calories, whether from experience or whatever, some people can't. Personally I've been getting better results since tracking everything. It's pedantic and my Mrs slags me but it's working for me.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

We all know that the important macro nutrients are carbs, fats and protein (maybe alcohol for some). Most also know what sort of ball park they should be aiming for of each of these (even if wrong).

So @banzi what micro nutrients do you think are worth paying attention too and what sort of levels would you ideally like to hit?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> can you elaborate I am interested in more information on this.


 Don't bother, he hasn't got a clue.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

BoomTime said:


> *
> What Is IIFYM?
> *
> 
> ...


 Banzi has been told so many times what IIFYM is, he still doesn't get it. Don't waste your time, he is either trolling or stupid.


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Dark sim said:


> Banzi has been told so many times what IIFYM is, he still doesn't get it. Don't waste your time, he is either trolling or stupid.


 He looks average at best...I don't think he understand his own ''I eat what I like'' diet.

Troll has been trolld


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> So type up what you eat on a typical day, give us an idea.
> 
> Because I'm willing to bet 'whatever you like' is going to comprise of mainly 'clean' foods and in moderation. You've just grown to 'like' it because you are so accustomed to it.


 I am in my first week of prep as of Monday

Breakfast 3 scrambled eggs small slice brown toast

lunch noodles and chicken

mid afternoon, green salad tomato and tuna or chicken

evening meal, steak green veg and small portion of noodles with a stir fry sauce.

thats it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Don't bother, he hasn't got a clue.


 love it...


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Sphinkter said:


> Don't get why this whole argument keeps coming up. Use it responsibly, eat decent whole, so called clean, food 90% of the time and don't sweat it when you get caught short now and then and have to eat something else the other 10% of the time.
> 
> some people can self regulate with tracking macros/calories, whether from experience or whatever, some people can't. Personally I've been getting better results since tracking everything. It's pedantic and my Mrs slags me but it's working for me.


 This.

I much prefer tracking everything now, just because I enjoy it and I have found I get the best results when I track everything, mentally and physically.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> love it...


 I've corrected you in a previous thread about nutritional value, which I guess you won't reply to.

I'll link it, so everyone can see your statement is incorrect.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/264250-what-do-you-feed-your-kids/?do=embed&embedComment=5131900&embedDo=findComment&page=5#comment-5131900

*
nutrient
*

[noo´tre-ent]

*1.* nourishing; aiding nutrition.

*2.* a food or biochemical substance used by the body that must be supplied in adequate amounts from foods consumed.There are six classes of nutrients: water, proteins, carbohydrates, fats, minerals, and vitamins.

Carbs and fats contain vitamins and minerals.

Potato -

Vitamins

Amounts Per Selected Serving

%DV

Vitamin A

29.9

IU

1%

Vitamin C

28.7

mg

48%

Vitamin D

~

~

Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol)

0.1

mg

1%

Vitamin K

6.0

mcg

7%

Thiamin

0.2

mg

13%

Riboflavin

0.1

mg

8%

Niacin

4.2

mg

21%

Vitamin B6

0.9

mg

46%

Folate

83.7

mcg

21%

Vitamin B12

0.0

mcg

0%

Pantothenic Acid

1.1

mg

11%

Choline

44.2

mg

Betaine

0.6

mg










Minerals

Amounts Per Selected Serving

%DV

Calcium

44.8

mg

4%

Iron

3.2

mg

18%

Magnesium

83.7

mg

21%

Phosphorus

209

mg

21%

Potassium

1600

mg

46%

Sodium

29.9

mg

1%

Zinc

1.1

mg

7%

Copper

0.4

mg

18%

Manganese

0.7

mg

33%

Selenium

1.2

mcg

2%

Fluoride

~

Olive oil -

Vitamins

Amounts Per Selected Serving

%DV

Vitamin A

0.0

IU

0%

Vitamin C

0.0

mg

0%

 Vitamin D

~

~

Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol)

31.0

mg

155%

Vitamin K

130

mcg

163%

Thiamin

0.0

mg

0%

Riboflavin

0.0

mg

0%

Niacin

0.0

mg

0%

Vitamin B6

0.0

mg

0%

Folate

0.0

mcg

0%

Vitamin B12

0.0

mcg

0%

Pantothenic Acid

0.0

mg

0%

Choline

0.6

mg

Betaine

0.2

mg










Minerals

Amounts Per Selected Serving

%DV

Calcium

2.2

mg

0%

Iron

1.2

mg

7%

Magnesium

0.0

mg

0%

Phosphorus

0.0

mg

0%

Potassium

2.2

mg

0%

Sodium

4.3

mg

0%

Zinc

0.0

mg

0%

Copper

0.0

mg

0%

Manganese

0.0

mg

0%

Selenium

0.0

mcg

0%

Fluoride

~


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BoomTime said:


> *
> What Is IIFYM?
> *
> 
> ...


 and my friend, the bolded section is exactly what attracts people to IIFYM and its exactly what they do, they eat s**t and count macros.

When they find out it really shouldnt be like that they just carry bon eating s**t and stop counting.

IIFYM is a scam, if you use IIFYM properly, you are in essence dieting strictly and making the right food choices.

Moist people who use it are just making and excuse and trying to justify their lack of disciplne.

"Oh, its 10.30 and I still have 200 cals left, I will have a pop tart to cover it"

stupid f**ks.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I've corrected you in a previous thread about nutritional value, which I guess you won't reply to.
> 
> I'll link it, so everyone can see your statement is incorrect.
> 
> ...


 lol, you have listed a potato and olive oil, they are not carbohydrates and fats they are potatoes and olive oil that contains carbohydrates and fats

The carbs contain zero nutritional value, they are simply a mixture of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, which contain zero nutrients.


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

banzi said:


> and my friend, the bolded section is exactly what attracts people to IIFYM and its exactly what they do, they eat s**t and count macros.
> 
> When they find out it really shouldnt be like that they just carry bon eating s**t and stop counting.
> 
> ...


 The bold section is pointing out the mistake often people make with IIFYM not what it is!

Claiming IIFYM diets dont work is very different to saying people often dont know how to use IIFYM, dont understand it and are lazy twats that want to eat anything.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> lol, you have listed a potato and olive oil, they are not carbohydrates and fats they are potatoes and olive oil that contains carbohydrates and fats
> 
> The carbs contain zero nutritional value, they are simply a mixture of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, which contain zero nutrients.


 They are a source of carbs and fats, so are carbs and fats, which contain nutritional value.

You are trying to be smarter than you actually are here.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> They are a source of carbs and fats, so are carbs and fats, which contain nutritional value.
> 
> You are trying to be smarter than you actually are here.


 He is actually right in what he's saying but it's just semantics. I think we all understand that when someone refers to a potato or rice as a carb they are meaning it's a source of carbs. Lol this is just getting daft.


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

banzi said:


> and my friend, the bolded section is exactly what attracts people to IIFYM and its exactly what they do, they eat s**t and count macros.
> 
> When they find out it really shouldnt be like that they just carry bon eating s**t and stop counting.
> 
> ...


 just because someone doesnt follow something correctly, doesnt mean the initial process (in this case IIFYM) doesnt work or isnt a good idea.

How is it a scam? Its not juiceplus, its not something people have to buy into and pay money for? It's just a way of planning what you eat. If you follow it correctly, it works because as you said its dieting relatively strictly and making good food choices.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Sphinkter said:


> He is actually right in what he's saying but it's just semantics. I think we all understand that when someone refers to a potato or rice as a carb they are meaning it's a source of carbs. Lol this is just getting daft.


 Pretty much everything contains these elements, so what lol?


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

Sphinkter said:


> Don't get why this whole argument keeps coming up. Use it responsibly, eat decent whole, so called clean, food 90% of the time and don't sweat it when you get caught short now and then and have to eat something else the other 10% of the time.
> 
> some people can self regulate with tracking macros/calories, whether from experience or whatever, some people can't. Personally I've been getting better results since tracking everything. It's pedantic and my Mrs slags me but it's working for me.


 Exactly this for me too


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> I am in my first week of prep as of Monday
> 
> Breakfast 3 scrambled eggs small slice brown toast
> 
> ...


 Ah so by 'I eat whatever I want' you mean that you eat purely chicken, eggs, salad, veggies and less than 100g of carbs per day?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> Ah so by 'I eat whatever I want' you mean that you eat purely chicken, eggs, salad, veggies and less than 100g of carbs per day?


 when Im prepping yes

Normally I eat a pretty much western diet including pizza chips sauces. lasagna, I would never restrict anything

IIFYM* for the win.

*If it fits your mood


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Pretty much everything contains these elements, so what lol?


 "So what"???

Its the micros that count, not the macros, that is the whole point.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TheScam said:


> just because someone doesnt follow something correctly, doesnt mean the initial process (in this case IIFYM) doesnt work or isnt a good idea.
> 
> How is it a scam?* Its not juiceplus,* its not something people have to buy into and pay money for? It's just a way of planning what you eat. If you follow it correctly, it works because as you said its dieting relatively strictly and making good food choices.


 juiceplus doesnt work?

Really?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> "So what"???
> 
> Its the micros that count, not the macros, that is the whole point.


 Count for what? They are again, nutrients.

Love how you change the basis of your argument when it falls down.


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## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Macros cause an insulin response which is needed to ferry micros to where they are needed, so if a gram of carbs is a carrier it is still needed in order to carry other nutrients into the muscles.

If you somehow managed to consume micros without macros you wouldn't last very long due to being extremely calorie deficient.


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

banzi said:


> juiceplus doesnt work?
> 
> Really?


 When did I say it didn't? Define "work"


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## Tren's physique (Feb 13, 2016)

banzi said:


> the point you seem to be missing is that all these IIFYM tools seems to believe you just have to track your macros and bingo everything's fine, however your carb macros contain zero nutritional value, pretty much in the same way do your fats, protein macros contain amino acids so they differ in that way.
> 
> So its really all about micro nutrients. look after the micros and the macros will look after themselves, it doesn't work the other way around.


 Are you sure you get how macro exactly are made? (Although macros are not made)

In example, are you sure you recognize the various components of carbs?

Almost everything is made of simple alpha-d-glucoses, combined in various way with fructose and others simple monosaccharides to create a polisaccharide, which is what we call "carbohydrate". It can be a starch, or the glycogen contained in our muscles and liver. It can also be in its simple way, e.g dextrose powder.

A kcal is nothing more than a measure of energy. Like the meter or the kilogram. It is nothing in itself, it's simply a measure.

Almost all carbs have their place Ina diet, and the G.I help you decide what you should eat and when.

Carbs coming from rice cakes are as useful as carbs coming from candies, the G.I is almost the same.

Micronutrients are all another thing aside, you need them, but they won't help you build muscle or create energy in an evident way.

It's only a lack of them that has bad consequences.


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## Tren's physique (Feb 13, 2016)

I think that OP needs to study again how macros and micros work precisely... With all the respect for the OP, which I seem to understand is a respectable member.

But I see a lot of imprecisions in your thinking.

Almost everything is made of Carbon, Oxygen and Hydrogen... So what? Is everything equal?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Count for what? They are again, nutrients.
> 
> Love how you change the basis of your argument when it falls down.


 look after the micros and the macros look after themselves.

If you just concentrate on the macros then the micros get neglected.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Tren's physique said:


> I think that OP needs to study again how macros and micros work precisely... With all the respect for the OP, which I seem to understand is a respectable member.
> 
> *But I see a lot of imprecisions in your thinking.*
> 
> Almost everything is made of Carbon, Oxygen and Hydrogen... So what? Is everything equal?


 That's not easy for you to say......


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> look after the micros and the macros look after themselves.
> 
> If you just concentrate on the macros then the micros get neglected.


 Wrong. Micros will easily be covered if your diet is varied. No one actually has micro targets.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Tren's physique said:


> I think that OP needs to study again how macros and micros work precisely... With all the respect for the OP, which I seem to understand is a respectable member.
> 
> But I see a lot of imprecisions in your thinking.
> 
> *Almost everything is made of Carbon, Oxygen and Hydrogen... So what? Is everything equal?*


 If you mean is a calorie a calorie , then the answer is yes and no....


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Wrong. Micros will easily be covered if your diet is varied.* No one actually has micro targets.*


 Not yet mate, I am ahead of my time.

In 5 years all you will hear about is micros, macros will be long forgotten.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Not yet mate, I am ahead of my time.
> 
> In 5 years all you will hear about is micros, macros will be long forgotten.


 I don't think you have 5 years old boy


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I am now going to have to step out of this thread now due to the fact I am breaking my own rule, this thread has been moved out of the General section without me noticing.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> I am now going to have to step out of this thread now due to the fact I am breaking my own rule, this thread has been moved out of the General section without me noticing.


 LOL


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> I don't think you have 5 years old boy


 It will be my legacy to the world.

I will be remembered alongside names such as Rich Piano and Gregg Valentino.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> It will be my legacy to the world.
> 
> I will be remembered alongside names such as Rich Piano and Gregg Valentino.


 If only you had a youtube channel, you would be very popular I feel. Popular for the wrong reasons


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> If only you had a youtube channel, you would be very popular I feel. Popular for the wrong reasons


 Lol, might set one up doing vids like these ****wits telling everyone what to eat and when to eat it.

Or I could just do the one vid shattering all their misguided illusions of getting huge.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Lol, might set one up doing vids like these ****wits telling everyone what to eat and when to eat it.
> 
> Or I could just do the one vid shattering all their misguided illusions of getting huge.


 Troll the bodybuilding world, like you've done here since day 1 lol

I would follow you :thumb:


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

"everything you need to know about training & nutrition could be written on the back of a *** packet"

could be one of the shortest youtube videos ever.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

banzi said:


> the point you seem to be missing is that all these IIFYM tools seems to believe you just have to track your macros and bingo everything's fine, however your carb macros contain zero nutritional value, pretty much in the same way do your fats, protein macros contain amino acids so they differ in that way.
> 
> So its really all about micro nutrients. look after the micros and the macros will look after themselves, it doesn't work the other way around.


 You're completely misrepresenting IIFYM here.

The principle behind it is that *provided your diet is based predominantly on a broad mix of wholefoods*, then calorie balance is the main determinant of which way your diet is going to move your body composition

Obviously, if you go to extremes, then extreme things will happen. Cut your protein intake too low and you could lose muscle, eat loads of refined sugar & you could start throwing your insulin levels out of whack enough to have an effect on fat storage independent of calorie balance. Neglect your micronutrient intake, and your health will suffer, which in turn could alter your daily calorie burn

IIFYM is about getting a sense of proportion about your diet. Eat well and get your protein & total calories right, and you can't go wrong. No need to obsess over whether it's okay to swap chicken for tuna in meal 4, or fret over 35% carbs and 25% fat when you were aiming for 40/20.

If does not and never has meant that a diet of whey, lard & haribos will keep you healthy. That's just a strawman argument.


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> Pretty much everything contains these elements, so what lol?


 This thread is classic @banzi posting at its finest lol. Fair play, always gets people taking.


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## Tren's physique (Feb 13, 2016)

banzi said:


> That's not easy for you to say......


 Why?


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## Acidreflux (Mar 3, 2015)

Frandeman said:


> Carbs taste good


 Hmmmm pop chips


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

ancient_loyal said:


> Sugar doesn't cause diabetes


 I know mate . I've got a sweet tooth and love my carbs.

*
Does sugar cause diabetes?
*

There are two main types of diabetes - Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes.

In Type 1 diabetes, the insulin producing cells in your pancreas are destroyed by your immune system. No amount of sugar in your diet - or anything in your lifestyle - has caused or can cause you to get Type 1 diabetes.

With Type 2 diabetes, though we know sugar doesn't directly causes Type 2 diabetes, you are more likely to get it if you are overweight. You gain weight when you take in more calories than your body needs, and sugary foods and drinks contain a lot of calories.

And it's important to add that fatty foods and drinks are playing a part in our nation's expanding waistline.

So you can see if too much sugar is making you put on weight, then you are increasing your risk of getting Type 2 diabetes. But Type 2 diabetes is complex, and sugar is unlikely to be the only reason the condition develops.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Acidreflux said:


> Hmmmm pop chips


 Creamy pasta for me

With garlic bread :thumb


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

nitrogen said:


> I know mate . I've got a sweet tooth and love my carbs.
> 
> *
> Does sugar cause diabetes?
> ...


 Just add the other magical ingredient, vegetable oil, or more specific linoleic acid.

Dietary linoleic acid induces obesity through excessive endocannabinoid activity


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Tren's physique said:


> Why?


 its spelt wrong....


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## Tren's physique (Feb 13, 2016)

banzi said:


> its spelt wrong....


 OK got it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> *You're completely misrepresenting IIFYM here.*
> 
> The principle behind it is that provided your diet is based predominantly on a broad mix of wholefoods, then calorie balance is the main determinant of which way your diet is going to move your body composition
> 
> ...


 ya dont say.....


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

nitrogen said:


> I know mate . I've got a sweet tooth and love my carbs.
> 
> *
> Does sugar cause diabetes?
> ...


 Exactly, being overweight heightens the risk of type 2. It's a common and very annoying misconception that sugar is the cause of all diabetes.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Sphinkter said:


> This thread is classic @banzi posting at its finest lol. Fair play, always gets people taking.


 only thing its missing is tommy.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

banzi said:


> I am in my first week of prep as of Monday
> 
> Breakfast 3 scrambled eggs small slice brown toast
> 
> ...


 What Noodles?


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## Acidreflux (Mar 3, 2015)

Goranchero said:


> Just add the other magical ingredient, vegetable oil, or more specific linoleic acid.
> 
> Dietary linoleic acid induces obesity through excessive endocannabinoid activity


 Sugar is nasty shizzle!


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> only thing its missing is tommy.


 I think it's a thread born out of missing Tommy!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> the point you seem to be missing is that all these IIFYM tools seems to believe you just have to track your macros and bingo everything's fine, however your carb macros contain zero nutritional value, pretty much in the same way do your fats, protein macros contain amino acids so they differ in that way.
> 
> So its really all about micro nutrients. look after the micros and the macros will look after themselves, it doesn't work the other way around.


 You are added 12 + potato and making chicken and brown rice.

You can eat a perfectly rich micro nutrient profile and fail to build muscle. You can eat a perfect rich micro nutrient profile and also get fat. Your statement is nonsense. Absolute nonsense.

Eating a macro perfect diet and deliberately avoiding micro nutrients is stupid from a health point of view and there is almost a 100% chance your physical capacity will suffer and limit your potential performance and results.

I've frequented this forum a lot less in recent times, but your posting has really depreciated. I think since you ran Tommy out of town you've been a wilted flower. After all, Batman without a Joker is a just some posh bloke in latex.

Whatever that means, it makes more sense that your reply


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> You are added 12 + potato and making chicken and brown rice.
> 
> You can eat a perfectly rich micro nutrient profile and fail to build muscle. You can eat a perfect rich micro nutrient profile and also get fat. Your statement is nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
> 
> ...


 Post of the year so far


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

ancient_loyal said:


> I think it's a thread born out of missing Tommy!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> You are added 12 + potato and making chicken and brown rice.
> 
> You can eat a perfectly rich micro nutrient profile and fail to build muscle. You can eat a perfect rich micro nutrient profile and also get fat. Your statement is nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
> 
> ...


 I sense you are overthinking things...


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> only thing its missing is tommy.


 Im doing my best....


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## Mogadishu (Aug 29, 2014)

So.....what carbs are forbidden my son?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Mogadishu said:


> So.....what carbs are forbidden *my son*?


 Whats your obsession with these words?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Gotta say @banzi consistently does a magnificent job of stirring everyone up. Is your real name Donald Trump by any chance?

I do actually see what Banzi is trying to say in that micronutrients (using the term loosely to include all kinds of physiologically beneficial molecules and compounds rather than the precise definition of micro nutrient which refers specifically to vitamins and essential minerals only) have a more profound health effect than perhaps most people realize - and that one of the very reasons a sensible macro split diet can make you feel and perform well and maintain a good body comp, beyond the fact that a good macro split is of course always energy balance appropriate, is because it also forces you to take in a variety of micronutrients (loose definition of the term) in a relative proportion that will be more beneficial than an unbalanced macro split would provide.

It could therefore be said that any benefit (beyond energy appropriateness) from controlling macros comes not specifically from the balance of carbs/fats/proteins per se, but from the balance of vitamins, essential and non-essential minerals, dietary fiber, dietary cholesterol, organic acids, coenzymes, essential and non-essential fatty acids and amino acids etc that a varied diet within a good balance of macros will provide.

Ultimately though its a level of thinking about it that doesn't need to be obsessed about. Set appropriate energy intake, consume more than a minimal amount of protein, and then eat a varied diet in a balance that suits you individually (that suits you psychologically as well as physically) and you'll thrive. Continual obsession with the minutia of detail in diet as a way of life tends to lead to disordered eating much more than it does to help you find a secret formula to awesome health or a great body. IMO the only time being super obsessional with macros or micros is worth it is in short bursts for specific purposes - last stages of prep for a bodybuilding show. making weight for a sport, or peaking performance for an elite level sporting contest etc. For off season and for what most people are looking to do, obsess less and just concentrate on the basics.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dtlv said:


> Gotta say @banzi consistently does a magnificent job of stirring everyone up. Is your real name Donald Trump by any chance?
> 
> I do actually see what Banzi is trying to say in that micronutrients (using the term loosely to include all kinds of physiologically beneficial molecules and compounds rather than the precise definition of micro nutrient which refers specifically to vitamins and essential minerals only) have a more profound health effect than perhaps most people realize - and that one of the very reasons a sensible macro split diet can make you feel and perform well and maintain a good body comp, beyond the fact that a good macro split is of course always energy balance appropriate, is because it also forces you to take in a variety of micronutrients (loose definition of the term) in a relative proportion that will be more beneficial than an unbalanced macro split would provide.
> 
> ...


 thats what I said.....

But not as eloquently.


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## Mogadishu (Aug 29, 2014)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Whats your obsession with these words?


 Its part of my profession.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Mogadishu said:


> Its part of my profession.


 Priest?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

banzi said:


> thats what I said.....
> 
> But *not as eloquently*.


 But, you said somewhere you are a public speaker


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## ancient_loyal (Apr 22, 2015)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> But, you said somewhere you are a public speaker


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> But, you said somewhere you are a public speaker


 he wrote it down not narrated it.


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