# Wendlers 5/3/1



## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Just reading into this now, seems a nice minimal strength training programme. Been lifting for a good few years and there has been a slow shift of my goals away from hypertrophy towards strength so thinking about trying this out for a few months. I'm currently just reading up on it now and it seems there are a fair few options for the accessory work side of things, who here has tried what? and how did you get on?

My only concern is the slow progress of this programme.. adding 5lbs a month for upperbody lifts and 10lbs a month for lower body lifts.. but i suppose with the '+' sets allowing you to go to failure I suppose the overload is there.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Phil D said:


> Just reading into this now, seems a nice minimal strength training programme. Been lifting for a good few years and there has been a slow shift of my goals away from hypertrophy towards strength so thinking about trying this out for a few months. I'm currently just reading up on it now and it seems there are a fair few options for the accessory work side of things, who here has tried what? and how did you get on?
> 
> My only concern is the slow progress of this programme.. adding 5lbs a month for upperbody lifts and 10lbs a month for lower body lifts.. but i suppose with the '+' sets allowing you to go to failure I suppose the overload is there.


I've just started Wendler 5/3/1 on the Boring But Big template. I'm only on Week 3, so can't really answer your questions.

I agree though that initially it is VERY slow, especially considering that you calculate the % based on 90% of your true 1RM.

BTW, on the Boring But Big template you don't go to failure on final set of main lift either, but only do the prescribed reps.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Bull Terrier said:


> I've just started Wendler 5/3/1 on the Boring But Big template. I'm only on Week 3, so can't really answer your questions.
> 
> I agree though that initially it is VERY slow, especially considering that you calculate the % based on 90% of your true 1RM.
> 
> BTW, on the Boring But Big template you don't go to failure on final set of main lift either, but only do the prescribed reps.


Do BBB as above, don't go to failure on the last set but instead work up to 5x10 at 70% of 90% of your 1rm. It's intense, especially if you do 531 squats and then 5x10 dead lifts (and do the same with other lifts so you effectively do all the main lifts twice). Throw in chin ups after every set of bench or OHP and you have a killer workout!


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Any of you got a link to this Routine/Programme? am curious as to what this programme consists of? Heard a few people talk about this 5, 3, 1 and I am looking to switch things up and train primarily for strength so I may even pursue this.


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I've just started Wendler 5/3/1 on the Boring But Big template. I'm only on Week 3, so can't really answer your questions.
> 
> I agree though that initially it is VERY slow, especially considering that you calculate the % based on 90% of your true 1RM.
> 
> BTW, *on the Boring But Big template you don't go to failure on final set of main lift either, but only do the prescribed reps*.


Where have you read this? I've just finished looking through Wendler's 5/3/1 ebook and i couldnt see it mentioned anywhere



Robbie said:


> Do BBB as above, don't go to failure on the last set but instead work up to 5x10 at 70% of 90% of your 1rm. It's intense, especially if you do 531 squats and then 5x10 dead lifts (and do the same with other lifts so you effectively do all the main lifts twice). Throw in chin ups after every set of bench or OHP and you have a killer workout!


So would you recommend using straight sets for the accessory work or some sort of loading pattern? I dont really understand the chinups after every pressing exercise thing - if your main lift of the day is military press and you hit it at 5x3, 3x3, 531 or whatever and then do 5x10 at 50-60% with chinups as a second accessory exercise it seems pretty absurd to be doing chinups between all those sets of mil presses too!


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Wendler seems to contradict himself a fair bit in different things he's written.. no wonder people get confused about this programme! In his ebook for BBB he specifically says for the main accessory exercise to be the same as the first exercise at 5x10, on his website he mentions the option of switching the accessories round on different days e.g. 531 squat + 5x10 deadliest, 531 bench + 5x10 press etc with a long list of alternate exercises you can use for the accessories. I like the sound of this as ill be hitting each exercise 2x a week and have the option to incorporate things like front squats for a bit more variation.

He also mentions different loading protocols for the accessories in the ebook:

Week One - 50%x10, 60%x10, 70%x10

Week Two - 60%x8, 70%x8, 80%x6

Week Three - 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5

Week Four - 40%x5, 50%x5, 60%x5

which again, contradicts other stuff he's written about the 5/3/1 accessory work


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Solid routine, if you can maker quicker progress on another program you prob don't need to be doing it yet tho.

There are some great BB assistance programs to it out there depending on your goals.

Read this

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/blood_and_chalk_jim_wendler_talks_big_weights_volume_eight


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Phil D said:


> Wendler seems to contradict himself a fair bit in different things he's written.. no wonder people get confused about this programme! In his ebook for BBB he specifically says for the main accessory exercise to be the same as the first exercise at 5x10, on his website he mentions the option of switching the accessories round on different days e.g. 531 squat + 5x10 deadliest, 531 bench + 5x10 press etc with a long list of alternate exercises you can use for the accessories. I like the sound of this as ill be hitting each exercise 2x a week and have the option to incorporate things like front squats for a bit more variation.
> 
> He also mentions different loading protocols for the accessories in the ebook:
> 
> ...


The alternate exercises works well, and as you said you can switch them about. I'm now doing front squats, sumo deads and paused bench instead of the standard ones. I built up the loading over time, and now just do 5x10 @ 70% on all weeks except week 4 where I do more like 50% and only do 3 sets.

As I don't do chin ups as 5x10, fitting them inbetween OHP and bench doesn't effect the main lift but gets some extra work in.


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Robbie said:


> The alternate exercises works well, and as you said you can switch them about. I'm now doing front squats, sumo deads and paused bench instead of the standard ones. I built up the loading over time, and now just do 5x10 @ 70% on all weeks except week 4 where I do more like 50% and only do 3 sets.
> 
> As I don't do chin ups as 5x10, fitting them inbetween OHP and bench doesn't effect the main lift but gets some extra work in.


So does that 70% intensity stay the same for the 4 week cycle? Will probably only do the supersetted chins on days when im pressing and not doing weighted chin ups as an accessory. Where did you read that you shouldnt be going to failure on the last set of the main exerciseswith BBB?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Heath said:


> Solid routine, if you can maker quicker progress on another program you prob don't need to be doing it yet tho.
> 
> There are some great BB assistance programs to it out there depending on your goals.
> 
> ...


Cheers pal


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

my brother in law is doing it atm and advocates it. he says he feels like he is garunteed to lift more on his 1 rep max week. He also said utilising the right assisstance work is crucial too


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

So how would the following work for a 531 BBB..?

Mon

Military Press 531

Bench press from pins 5x10

Weighted Chins 5x10

Tuesday

Deadlift 531

Front Squat 5x10

Hanging leg raises 5x10

Wednesday

Rest

Thursday

Bench Press 531 SS Chinups

Military Press 3x10 SS Chinups

Barbell Row 3x10

Friday

Squat 531

Deadlift 5x10

Weighted Situps 5x10

I cant seem to find anywhere what volume should be used for the SS chins..? Will start out with all assistance at 50% and built it up to 60% after the first mesocycle. Not sure whether i need 2x ab exercises in there either..


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## T Rex83 (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm currently on week 10 of it and it's great, on my final set of the main movement from what I've read on the printout I did you go to failure not stop at prescribed reps and then do the main lift again 5x10 reps


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm doing it at the minute with Great effect. Check my log for routine etc


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Phil D said:


> So how would the following work for a 531 BBB..?
> 
> Mon
> 
> ...


Ditch the ab stuff and do stiff legged deadlifts instead 

I do 70% for weeks 1-3 only

I think it was in the book where wendler said not doing any more reps than the 531, it's definitely something that Wendler recommended


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## Kroc (Sep 28, 2013)

Phil D said:


> So how would the following work for a 531 BBB..?
> 
> Mon
> 
> ...


Wendlers 531 can be a little confusing - simply because it has evolved so much over the years - not to mention the special compromise texts he has released... such as 531 for football.

I think your split is lacking personally. The likes of GHR, Kroc Rows, and an olympic lift are missing. Maybe look at swapping out Mil Press 5x10 for either clean and press or possibly push press?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Phil D said:


> Where have you read this? I've just finished looking through Wendler's 5/3/1 ebook and i couldnt see it mentioned anywhere
> 
> So would you recommend using straight sets for the accessory work or some sort of loading pattern? I dont really understand the chinups after every pressing exercise thing - if your main lift of the day is military press and you hit it at 5x3, 3x3, 531 or whatever and then do 5x10 at 50-60% with chinups as a second accessory exercise it seems pretty absurd to be doing chinups between all those sets of mil presses too!


My program is basically this version of Boring But Big:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_boring_but_big_3month_challenge

Personally I like training main lifts twice a week, and on this template this is precisely what I do. I'm not screwing around with any of it - I'm doing it exactly as written by the man himself.

I don't follow his dietary recommendations though, nor his conditioning. I prefer other systems regarding diet and conditioning.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

http://www.blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

^ great for anyone confused with the weights on 5/3/1 because it does all the work for you.


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Robbie said:


> Ditch the ab stuff and do stiff legged deadlifts instead
> 
> I do 70% for weeks 1-3 only
> 
> I think it was in the book where wendler said not doing any more reps than the 531, it's definitely something that Wendler recommended


he seems to recommend this in the boring but big 3 month challenge on t nation which is different from the standard boring but big programme


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Phil D said:


> he seems to recommend this in the boring but big 3 month challenge on t nation which is different from the standard boring but big programme


You're dead right though that it gets very confusing with so many different versions of the system.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Phil D said:


> he seems to recommend this in the boring but big 3 month challenge on t nation which is different from the standard boring but big programme


Do the 531 bit as it says in the book and then make the rest fit as you want. Maybe start with a simple BBB and you can then change as you go along. I think most people end up doing a hybrid version to fit their goals and with what works for them


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Kroc said:


> I think your split is lacking personally. The likes of GHR, Kroc Rows, and an olympic lift are missing. Maybe look at swapping out Mil Press 5x10 for either clean and press or possibly push press?


Why? I've basically followed example 2 from http://www.jimwendler.com/2013/05/boring-but-big/


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Phil D said:


> Why? I've basically followed example 2 from http://www.jimwendler.com/2013/05/boring-but-big/


Do you still do the second exercise 5x10 on the deload week? Or reduce to 3x10?


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> Do you still do the second exercise 5x10 on the deload week? Or reduce to 3x10?


http://www.jimwendler.com/2013/05/boring-but-big/

He mentions either sticking at 5x10 or dropping to 3x10, use your judgement.

Also in response to your earlier post on here about not going to failure on the 5/3/1 main lifts with BBB, in the same link above he mentions:

'You can push the final 5/3/1 sets - do the 5/3/1 program as you normally would.'


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Phil D said:


> http://www.jimwendler.com/2013/05/boring-but-big/
> 
> He mentions either sticking at 5x10 or dropping to 3x10, use your judgement.
> 
> ...


In the link I posted earlier in the 3-month challenge he said specifically to not go to failure on final 5/3/1 set!

He does contradict himself at times.


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

I used it for 9 months. In that time I took my deadlift from 300 to 320


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

JR8908 said:


> I used it for 9 months. In that time I took my deadlift from 300 to 320


Lbs or Kg? Deadlift should be increasing at 5kg/month so in 9 months if you did the programme correctly you could expect it to be +45kg


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Phil D said:


> Lbs or Kg? Deadlift should be increasing at 5kg/month so in 9 months if you did the programme correctly you could expect it to be +45kg


Kg

I had hit a plateau and this method really helped. Achieving 5kg a month increase every month is unrealistic unless you are a beginner. 20kg in 9 months I was happy with


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

JR8908 said:


> Kg
> 
> I had hit a plateau and this method really helped. Achieving 5kg a month increase every month is unrealistic unless you are a beginner. 20kg in 9 months I was happy with


Thats a big lift buddy! well done


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

.


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

Well 2 weeks in and I like it, efficient workouts that don't leave me feeling like a sack of sh1t for the rest of the week with DOMs. Got the 531+ week next looking forward to hitting some rep maxes hopefully


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Phil D said:


> Well 2 weeks in and I like it, efficient workouts that don't leave me feeling like a sack of sh1t for the rest of the week with DOMs. Got the 531+ week next looking forward to hitting some rep maxes hopefully


It's a brilliant routine. My lifts have shot up and I'm doing the powerlifting version with assistance


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

robc1985 said:


> It's a brilliant routine. My lifts have shot up and I'm doing the powerlifting version with assistance


I've just switched to 3/5/1 from 5/3/1 so far so good!


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

robc1985 said:


> It's a brilliant routine. My lifts have shot up and I'm doing the powerlifting version with assistance


Yeah on the '+', sets so far I've been basically hitting my calculated 1rms, got high hopes for some PBs this week now


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