# Pscarbs & Experts ADVICE ON GH please!!



## johnpy (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm going to start to use GH (norditropin), how many iu's would i have to use and for how long if my goal is fatloss and what hour to inject it?. What type of diet is best to do while on gh?? im stacking it up with 50mg of T3

I read the whole 17 pages about the thread from 2005 on keto diet, i got the point perfectly. Im at about 20%BF 223 pounds 5'10''. Been training for about 8 years now, never seen my six pack.....this is my year and i am determined. I know my problem has always been the diet because i train very hard. Can deadlift 455 for 3 reps that was a month ago, squat the same. So any advice i am all ears.

Have read a lot in the past two day and have liked everything i've read.

Shoot away mates!!!!


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

The muscle research section will give you all the info you need and here is another excellent link that will answer your questions.

http://www.basskilleronline.com/human_growth_hormone.shtml


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

John for me carb cycling is probably the better choice than keto for you as i feel this way you will stick to it and acheive the goal.....

GH now i will assume that GH for you will only be part of the solution not the whole solution, 2iu's Am before morning cardio then 2iu's before bed would be my advice but understand you would need to use the GH for some time to really get the best from it(before others jump on me, yes the results will come sooner with norditropin but the best option is the longer you use the better the results).....

you will need to add cardio to your regime to get your bodyfat down 4-5 30min sessions before meal one or PWO would be a good place to start, also lifting low reps is great for strength as proved by our lifts but in my opinion not great for fat loss and muscle building.

keep the reps to 8-10 but lift as heavy as you can with these reps for 1-3 working sets.....

all the above is just my opinion mate and some bits will need changing as you progress....


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## johnpy (Jan 31, 2011)

Sounds good, excellent!!! There's post here were i can see an example of carb cycling, i'll look for it. Though could i do keto for 6 weeks then switch to carb cycling for faster results. I KNOW it's all about the diet and sticking to it!!

When you say use GH for some time.....what time are we talking about here???? what about the T3???

Thanks again mate


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## Paulieb (Jan 1, 2008)

You can squat 455 kg...................................... that's some going


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## THE COLONEL (Mar 25, 2009)

6months to a year mate


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## johnpy (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks mates, Pscarbs what about the diet i mentioned above or better said the way to do it???


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## johnpy (Jan 31, 2011)

455 pounds!!!!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

THE COLONEL said:


> 6months to a year mate


agree mate although the longer the better so for as many years as possible.....



johnpy said:


> Thanks mates, Pscarbs what about the diet i mentioned above or better said the way to do it???


i don't like Keto diets unless you are dropping into a show and you need to go that extreme, mainly because the rebound when you do stop(and you will)on keto will be bad but by using a structured carb cycling diet you can use this permanently if you structure re-feeds...

as for T3 well from your height and bodyfat% i would hazard a guess that your thyroid is on the slow side, although GH is great for fatloss it can after some time negatively effect the thyroid(although this does not always happen) so 50mcg per day would be a good addition...


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## johnpy (Jan 31, 2011)

excellent info< got everything i wanted,

thanks mate


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Pop in 100mcg T4 as well to make the best of your GH.


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## Paulieb (Jan 1, 2008)

MXD said:


> Pop in 100mcg T4 as well to make the best of your GH.


Can you explain the benefits of T4 whilst on hgh MXD ?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

MXD said:


> Pop in 100mcg T4 as well to make the best of your GH.


why?


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Read this:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/thyroid-and-growth-hormone.htm


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## Paulieb (Jan 1, 2008)

MXD said:


> Read this:
> 
> http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/thyroid-and-growth-hormone.htm


I will read this when I get home, thoughts PS if you have read it mate?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have read it and used it but found T3 to be better, when you read this you will see alot of science but in conclusion it is an opinion not fact.....

like i said i have used t3 and t4 independently whilst on GH and found the T4 to be lacking, this was all the rage a few years back when A Roberts released this article and many read it and jumped on it and found it crap.......

in my opinion you don't NEED a thyroid drug when you use GH as the lowering of thyroid output does not happen straight away and not to everyone, something else that was read and misunderstood....someone once said "you need a thyroid drug if using GH" no explanation was given when and how much just that it was a need....which is not true.....i have been using GH for pretty much 7yrs if GH fukced thyroid that much then i would need thyroid medication but on my last TSH and free T3/4 test showed all was nicely in the normal range......

my recomendation for the use of T3 had nothing to do with the OP GH use but the fact he is 223lbs at 5'10" tall and 20% BF this shouts loud and clear his thyroid is comprised so needs a boost.


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## Paulieb (Jan 1, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> i have read it and used it but found T3 to be better, when you read this you will see alot of science but in conclusion it is an opinion not fact.....
> 
> like i said i have used t3 and t4 independently whilst on GH and found the T4 to be lacking, this was all the rage a few years back when A Roberts released this article and many read it and jumped on it and found it crap.......
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me, proofs in the pudding after all.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Did you try both together?

My dose protocol is 50mcg t3 100mcg t4. It costs nothing and I'd rather cover all the bases.

Only added t4 since last week, but I do actually feel fuller. We'll see though.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes mate tried both seperate and both together, now adding two thyroid meds will give you more bang for the buck although i do not see the point in this case for the OP.....i am not sure why you feel fuller though by adding the t4 if that is what your saying?? why do you think this has happened?


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Ahh kool.

I think that the gh may be being better used from the inclusion of t4 with t3 together through the various pathways that t4 and gh work through. Its only slight but is defo there, cals, cardio, training and gear are the same also.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

not sure about that to be fair as the pathways are the same and not enhanced, i never saw the difference but then i am old  .....recent studies do show that raised IGF through high amounts of GH per day(0.03mg/kg/d) did effect T4 conversion slightly but T3 levels where unaffected....


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## hermie07 (Sep 16, 2008)

ok pscarb so would you advise running t3 or t4 or neither with 4 iu of hyge


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

neither to start with unless you are that out of shape you know your thyroid is lagging...

the use of a thyroid drug is not a must when you first start using GH, GH does not immediatly effect the thyroid gland it does over time by way of the conversion to IGF it is the high levels of IGF that effects the thyroid gland and this is at much higher doses than 4iu....

unfortunatly it has become the trend to use a thyroid drug along with GH but it is not needed....for most


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## johnyboy (Jan 15, 2010)

when i dieted for the britain in october i ran 5iu hyge and t4 @ 100mg for the first 10/11 weeks of the diet.bf was v low when i changed to t3.it was only because i couldnt get hold of any more t4.ran 50mg per day.the change over the next week was massive.didnt change anything else,diet or cardio ect.so the t3 seemed a lot better/harsher if you like.im sure this wouldnt be the same for everyone though.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Johny T4 is converted in the body to T3 at a rate of 4:1 so 100mcg of T4 would equal the same amount as 25mcg of T3 so by dropping that and adding in the 50mcg of T3 you doubled your dose so changes would be expected although in saying that T3 is stronger as there is no conversion process involved.


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## johnyboy (Jan 15, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> Johny T4 is converted in the body to T3 at a rate of 4:1 so 100mcg of T4 would equal the same amount as 25mcg of T3 so by dropping that and adding in the 50mcg of T3 you doubled your dose so changes would be expected although in saying that T3 is stronger as there is no conversion process involved.


that would explain it then paul.to be fair i did post on here for some advice and was told to take 50 mcg t3(2 tablets).also i suppose that when you are that far into the diet and really low very small changes look massive.will prob do the same next time as it worked so well,think that running the t3 all the way through would prob be a little too harsh for me.

cheers for posting mate.


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## johnyboy (Jan 15, 2010)

just like to correct myself after looking in my diet diary.i was actually running t4 @ 400mcg per day(2 200mcg tablets).so the difference in how i looked was not down to the dose increasing.

cheers john.


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## jordanwlkp (Jun 30, 2008)

Pscarb,for how long do you say is ok to add 25-50mcg t3 during gh 5-10iu ed (1jab before 1st meal) . im on gh /ghrp6 for over a year and used to run t3 at 25-50mg ed for 8weeks and 6weeks break.

is t3dose low as 25mcg ed for lets say 12-16weeks can damage thyroid really bad or permanently ?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

MXD said:


> Read this:
> 
> x2
> 
> ...


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