# Reducing bodyfat on a bulk



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm a 5 year natty female, aiming for NABBA Trained next year this year competed in Toned but found myself at the top of the rang regards muscularity. Ultimate goal is BNBF Physique but also interested in this new UKBFF Physique class in case I may be suited to that too. So I'm now taking best part of 12 months out to gain muscle,then come in for competition in 2013(summer or Autumn).

My question is this, I've been on my off season training plan for 6 weeks now, really pushing it with a full-on lifting program plus all the natty supps I can get my hands on(HMB, creatine, BCAAs etc). My trainer and I go for minimum cardio,tending to rely more on diet pre-contest especially since I have problems with my legs both in old injury terms(ex athlete) and gaining mass. I gain fat and smooth out on my upper body much quicker than lower half.

My bodyfat levels and weight in general is now too high for my comfort,there is little definition on my upper body at all, despite my legs in my avatar. If I run a short cut by going back onto my pre contest diet, but without upping cardio (I do a short session, a longer one plus go to martial arts once a week) will I be able to keep whatever strength and muscle gains I've made, whilst hopefully reducing my BF levels?Or do I risk going around in a circle and making my upper:lower imbalance worse?


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i know you dont want a cardio based answer but what about abit of swimming?

its also good for strength and stamina..

could the benefits out weigh the risks?


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

TheCrazyCal said:


> i know you dont want a cardio based answer but what about abit of swimming?
> 
> its also good for strength and stamina..
> 
> could the benefits out weigh the risks?


I was a swimmer but was told to cut it out especially as it could have been adding to my upper body dominance.Just look at the olympic swimmers. My body shape goes for wide shoulders and no legs or arse.


----------



## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

I'm no expert, but some of the bigger guys used to swear that incline walk was the way forward for cal burning without being intense enough to lose muscle.


----------



## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

If your diet is right (i'm not saying it isn't) but you will be able to amke good gains while still keeping you BF low throughout the year, saves the hassle of the long pre contest diet too lol.

What does your coach say about it?

I'm cutting my fat down now, once i'm down to where I want to be i plan to say there and build lean muscle ready for the BNBF.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

I don't think my diet is right, I'm either eating very clean or going off the rails a bit. At the moment my coach is just providing a training plan, I've been using a diet I was given by someone else a few years ago for off-season. What my current person says is just make sure I'm eating enough for the really hard sessions I'm putting in.


----------



## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

Your diet needs to be clean and consistent, the man you need to talk to though is PARKY, who is a mod on this site. I would drop him a PM just incase he doesn't see this post though.


----------



## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Rose I'd suggest shooting a PM to IngridC - she's a friend of mine and is a BNBF competitor. Her knowledge base is unbelieveable so she'll definitely be able to help. Post your diet up here or in the diet section and I'm happy to have a look, though I suspect you might have already alluded to the issue re 'going off the rails.'


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Parky said:


> Rose I'd suggest shooting a PM to IngridC - she's a friend of mine and is a BNBF competitor. Her knowledge base is unbelieveable so she'll definitely be able to help. Post your diet up here or in the diet section and I'm happy to have a look, though I suspect you might har already alluded to the issue re 'going off the rails.'


The diet I was trying to follow looked something like this;

25g oats,30g whey, 1/2 tablespoon linseeds, berries

30g whey shake, piece fruit

180g mackerel, w/meal pitta bread, salad

MRP + fruit

potatoes or 30g dry weight brown rice + 150g chicken + unlimited veg

150g yogurt, sunflower seeds, 30g whey shake

250g cottage cheese (comes in 250g tubs from the supermarket I buy it from)

Pre WO 25g whey

Post WO 40g whey + 20g malto

Workout time during the day varies, sometimes morning, sometimes evening. On this diet I get fed up of eating and having to make up lots of shakes etc all the time. My pre comp diet was less meals and a lot simpler. I've tried moving the fats around, adding some UDOs but I find myself just wanting to go off and eat junk all the time, and also don't know if I'm eating the right amount of protein to put on the muscle I need.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Couple of things;

Thanks to you lot IngridC received a long pm from me. In return she sent a very useful reply. In the meantime the Trainer who helped me so much with competition prep has told me she can provide an off-season diet for me. I've actually gone back onto my competition diet in the last 24 hours and already feel a whole lot better. Maybe it's the food choices, I don't know but I know having to eat and prepare for 8 or more times a day especially when it was different foods each time, was doing my head in.

I'm also going to swim later today, walk there and back is 10 mins brisk, and will probably do 20 lengths or so (this is continuously, used to be a swimmer and I don't dawdle) which shouldn't hurt my gains and won't negate the cheating I've done last week but will make me feel a bit better.


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm glad you've been able to come to some sort of conclusion Rose or at least get the advice you've been looking for. I think you pretty much answered your own question earlier when you talked about why you didn't quite have the offseason condition you'd hope for and what you should do next. It's obviosu when I look at your diet combined with periods of clean eating followed by bouts of crap eating will inevitably lead to you holding water and gaining fat. Your offseason diet also looks like a bit of a comedy to me for a bulking diet your eating next to nothing and if it's your precontest diet then it's equally poor. 25g of oats for breakfast, 30g of potatoes or brown rice per meal, 20g of maltodextrin post workout..... I had a girl training for the Scottish eating almost 3 times what you were eating in the and she lost 2 stone.

Your offseason is vital to your season dieting, read my article on high carb dieting part 2 and your'll understand the theory around contest dieting and building muscle while reducing fat and try to eat more solid food rather than whey.

If you want to compete in the BNBF figure next year the hard work starts here, no stone unturned work out what your body needs and get it sorted.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Yes, it's not til 2014 when I'll enter BNBF then physique should be my class. Meantime NABBA Trained is the next step for me.

The diet I posted was given to me by someone else who advises & trains bb'ers, before I started with my current trainer, who specialises in Figure & female prep this year. Both diets are poles apart and I feel better even on the comp diet at the moment! Will be getting an off season diet to go alongside the training plan I already have in next few days.


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

I'd hate to be advised by that person, that diet was awful at any time of the year. Self discovery can one of the most important tools for building a knowledge base, once upon a time people read books and design diets and programs based on that knowledge and self experience. I'm sure you could write up a diet yourself if you put your mind to it. Afterall you did compete already this year so you've obviously learned a thing or two, and seem to have a base to start with.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

AChappell said:


> I'd hate to be advised by that person, that diet was awful at any time of the year. Self discovery can one of the most important tools for building a knowledge base, once upon a time people read books and design diets and programs based on that knowledge and self experience. I'm sure you could write up a diet yourself if you put your mind to it. Afterall you did compete already this year so you've obviously learned a thing or two, and seem to have a base to start with.


Yep I'm learning fast, I did try to pm you about that diet but appears your inbox is full.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

New diet in my inbox this morning, it's quite clean but with a lot more carbs and miles away from the other one I was using. Been shopping for a few things, got some rice and fish already cooked up so all ready to go. Got some piccies up yesterday in another place, and hoping to see a big improvement over the next 6 weeks. Will do some pics at the beginning of September (got a poss holiday planned where clean eating will be difficult but I usually come back the same as I left of with hols).


----------



## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Who is your current trainer Rose?


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Extreme said:


> Who is your current trainer Rose?


I've pm'ed you.


----------



## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

Glad you've got this sorted now Rose.


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Hmmm I best clear my inbox then, I'm not really a fan of journals Rose I very rarely read them and following people posting workout numbers can be dull. I'd be curious to see some pictures though, so get them posted. and then periodically update us with a few more snips.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

AChappell said:


> Hmmm I best clear my inbox then, I'm not really a fan of journals Rose I very rarely read them and following people posting workout numbers can be dull. I'd be curious to see some pictures though, so get them posted. and then periodically update us with a few more snips.


Extreme know who I'm with and is quite happy I'm in good hands. Here's some pics of me on and off stage (we entered Toned Figure this year);


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Yesterday


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Hey Rose,

Where your at just now looks to be a good place to start your baseline diet from, i wouldn't let your waist line or BF% levels creep much higher.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

AChappell said:


> Hey Rose,
> 
> Where your at just now looks to be a good place to start your baseline diet from, i wouldn't let your waist line or BF% levels creep much higher.


Thanks, yes I'm not happy with it going any higher. I do tend to store fat around my abdomen, especially from front to back which is more obvious from a side view(or 1/4 turn). I know from experience a sconsistent clean diet and maintaining a steady weight does make a difference in this area.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

It's now a couple of weeks down the line with the new diet, I haven't been perfect but as close as I can be, did have an extra cheat last week and on days/nights where I am too hungry, or have long gaps have thrown in an extra protein shake/handful nuts (food and cheats are very emotive with me and an ongoing issue I deal with and manage).

Anyway here's two pics I took this morning following training. Don't know if there's any progress there but I feel better, and can tell I'm gaining on my legs which is good.

View attachment 4348
View attachment 4349


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

havent revisited this thread for weeks, soz rose..

youre in cracking shape


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks Cal, I continue to be pleased with my gains.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Rose, learn to take a compliment 

it takes practise to say thanks and then stifle the word but...


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

AChappell said:


> Hmmm I best clear my inbox then, I'm not really a fan of journals Rose I very rarely read them and following people posting workout *numbers can be dull*. I'd be curious to see some pictures though, so get them posted. and then periodically update us with a few more snips.


agreed, but youre probly reading the wrong ones :wink:

i am a tad ranty, but never boring :becky:

to update you on mine, i now have a water buffalo in thailand (actually a guard buffalo) named after me 

soz and back to topic..


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

A buffalo! I'm not sure I want to know mg:

You have good legs rose, and what looks like decent back width, but your lacking across the shoulders and chest. That's the impression I get with the photo's anyway. Like I said before I wouldn't try to up your weight until calories until your stable at that weight for a while longer, no point bulking for the sake of adding fat, you shouldn't be going hungry in the offseason though, be sure to address that with some quality food.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Yep I'm prioritising shoulders but struggle to get any doms or decent pumps despite plenty of lateral raise work. Weights are increasing in both areas but most gains seem to be on legs - these were a weak area and I've concentrated hard on them, probably need to calm down with them for a bit and put my all into chest workouts.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Just wanted to update this into September I was very unhappy with my BF levels which had risen again. I was about to go on holiday and decided to start doing something about it right away. The holiday was in a country where it is possible to eat clean, if you stick to their basics (far east continent), I also trained each day at the hotel gym and forced myself to use the chopsticks. Dropped 4lbs that week. After that my weight was fairly constant because although I was eating clean I was eating in the night, and in between meals during the day. I decided to be stricter with the diet and dropped in 2 weeks of double cardio. That did the trick and I lost 2 inches off my waistline (abdomen is where I tend to store fat most). Had a weekend away this last week but took 6-pack bag and ate clean every meal apart from a Sunday carvery which wasn't that difficult, did have a few fruit ciders but it's not hurt me.

Am now around the weight I want to be off season, got visible definition in arms, shoulders and you can almost see some abs. Will drop cardio gradually to hopefully allow some growth. weights have gone up slightly and I'm definitely stronger.

Lessons learned are that eating clean is fine but if you eat too many kcals you'll still store it as fat.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

so basically if you want to stay lean eat clean and do your cardio


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

TheCrazyCal said:


> so basically if you want to stay lean eat clean and do your cardio


No and yes.

If my eating habits hadn't gotten out of control I'd not have gotten my BF up past the point where I was comfortable. Cardio was required to bring it back down but I'm aiming to stay lean with just diet alone now I'm at a sensible level again.

I don't get on with lots of cardio, it doesn't suit me.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

coolio, i was kinda just teasing tho 

surprised tho what with you being an ex swimmer.. or maybe thats why lol..


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

TheCrazyCal said:


> coolio, i was kinda just teasing tho
> 
> surprised tho what with you being an ex swimmer.. or maybe thats why lol..


I was also a competitive runner but concentrated on quality work since. I tend to get injured or very achy with lots of cardio(rubbish biomechs) plus I struggle to keep size on my legs they are pretty lean already and they need to rest. I currently have pain top of right calf-hamstring tie in which am hoping this will clear up when I cut back.

My weight training sessions are also pretty intense, leg sessions quite volumous, working quads today in an unheated industrial unit I was dripping sweat onto the floor/was breathing heavily for a good 20 minutes part way through and I don't break sweat very easily.

Result is I prefer to try and control my diet rather than do hours of cardio, also makes me feel better about myself if I can do it that way.


----------



## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

I'm currently working with an IFBB Pro for next year, he was obsessed by weight due to him wanting to be bigger for next year but I have talked him round to my way of thinking and he's now eating plenty but doing 4 stationery bike sessions of 40 minutes a week and is currently losing around 1 pound a week.

He feels better and a month down the line looks a little better. By the time his guest spots crop up middle of next year he should be bigger and not have to do much in the way of a diet because we'll amend his diet when he stops losing the pound a week, you could say in a way his diet for next year has started and it's just a really long range diet.

Building muscle, gaining/losing fat are 2 completely different mechanisms in the body, muscle is built in direct relation to stress being put on them and adequate QUALITY protein.

Fat loss or gain is directly related to the amount of energy being put into the body in relation to the amount of energy being expended plus the existing amount of fat that is already there. If there is too much fat already stored there (i.e. belly or hips/ass/thighs) then you don't need to put in lots of carbs/fats (energy) because you want to use up what has been previously stored.

I started training at over 17st, I was a burst couch. 4 years down the line I was still over 17st but in far better condition and hugely bigger. Another 4 years down the line I was holding 17'2 with abs (not razor sharp but visible) and possibly 1st out of contest shape.

This is why I KNOW you can grow without bulking, bulking is just an excuse for some people to gorge and those who struggle to gain to look big for a while. How much you actually bulk means NOTHING, it's what's left once you've dieted that counts if you want to stand on stage and it's being happy in your own skin if you don't compete.

Many boxers still prepare like Rocky did in the 70's, many bodybuilders still try to follow the mass building techniques of the past greats which is fine if you follow it all because those guys did bulking phases but always did cardio and never got too fat because they were true bodybuilders and wanted to look good 24/7 whilst being healthy.

Many of the guys today don't seem to care how they look or are perceived by the outside world, how fit or healthy they are either which is a shame and perhaps why so many die so young or end up with health problems. There is no need/point in doing part of what these guys did in the past and not all of it, if you don't do the cardio and you gain the fat you've just made your show prep much harder due to the diet being more severe or for a longer time.

Science, supplements, knowledge have all moved on, if people did some research they would realise this but there are many who'd rather ask someone to tell them what to do because of laziness and never learn of any techniques that may well suit them better than the ones the masses blindly follow.


----------



## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

I run very frequently I am now seriously thinking of changing my runs to some stationary bike very low resistance over the winter because I feel the high impact is really slowing my gains unless I find some anti muscle wasting drink before I pelt around the roads.

Sent from my iPhone


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Just for comparison so we know what I'm referring to here's what I'm looking like at the moment;




























Can see I need to bring that left lat out when posing!


----------



## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

You look perfectly good for offseason, not too far out and still looking in shape.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Extreme said:


> You look perfectly good for offseason, not too far out and still looking in shape.


Thanks

Yes I estimate I probably only need 10-12lbs off I was 10-12lbs lighter than I am now for Toned but am thinking with the extra muscle I'll compete roughly the same point, but with lower bodyfat. It's also a weight my body seems to return to every time I've dieted as a bodybuilder.

I find it difficult because food is very emotive for me, I've had an ED which lurks permanently. Following a controlled diet helps me no end. This is the first time I've kept under 10 stone for any length of time for years, used to rebound a lot in the past but this time I've caught it and stopped it in it's tracks.


----------



## ElleMac (Sep 20, 2011)

You've got a lovely off season shape, I would LOVE to look like that off season, I would probably love to look like that on season  x


----------



## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Thats always the way of it, human beings covet. Nobody ever likes the way they look and would rather be someone else, if you're naturally lean you want mass etc, etc.


----------



## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Extreme said:


> Thats always the way of it, human beings covet. Nobody ever likes the way they look and would rather be someone else, if you're naturally lean you want mass etc, etc.


Yep, I'd like a slimmer waistline(I'm thick front to back). By training to build up other bodyparts, and keep my diet clean I can create the illusion by building an x-shape and keep flab in that area at bay. Right diet and training is so important and I don't care if I've spent the last 3-4 months eating out of boxes when out with friends, refusing cakes or chocolate it's done the job.


----------

