# Cutting/losing weight



## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Hi guys,

Firstly just want to say the knowledge you guys impart on here, the articles and help is fantastic. I've been reading up and following various threads whilst I started my diet and training but I feel I need to check I'm doing things right now. So if anyone can help or notice anything amiss or that perhaps I'm doing wrong then I appreciate all the help and advice I can get.

I'll hopefully post a journal and be able to help or inspire others just starting out.

31 years, 6"8 currently 176lb ( started at 180 ) by my scales. They give a bodyfat estimate ( and I know it's just that ) of 11.7%

Firstly calculated my BMR at 1650 and TDEE at just over 2000 calories so eating 4 - 5 times a day for 1500 calories

This seems way low and I think I may have calculated this wrong ( so much for that physics degree! ) so if anyone could accurately do this for me I'd be extremely grateful.

Average protein 150g

Carbs 100

Fat 50g

For 1500 call or thereabouts. Track everything with Fat secret app and my fitness pal.

Hiit 4 - 5 times a week. Jog 2 kilometres then 10 reps of running sprinting as hard as I can for 15 seconds with say 30 seconds rest between. The same 2km jog back home.

Weight training 5 times a week, dumbells, compound exercises with a weight I can lift no more than 10 reps. 3 - 4 sets and each week try vary something, an exercise, add weight etc etc.

Abs 3 - 4 times per week, legs raises, crunches and decline crunches.

No supplements bar the odd protein shake and I drink green tea as often as I can in addition to regular tea. Not keen on it so green tea capsules?? Worth it?

Also thought about some CLA but unsure whether I would benefit.

Dieting for 6 weeks now and as I said I'm down to 176lb but for the last week I just seem to have stalled. As I've a holiday coming up in August I'd like to get my abbs on show and as lean aa I can be whilst hopefully putting on some muscle. After which I'll certainly e looking to bulk up some.

Couple of quick recent photos if that helps with the bodyfat estimate. I'd really just like to get that down as low as possible or is safe, stay at that and p the food afterwards.

Once again I appreciate any help or asvice as this is all fairly new to me, carbon cycling, keto, classic and the rest. Just seeing if those macros and calories are in check first would be a good start.

Thanks in advance,

Phillip


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## Stef92 (Apr 16, 2015)

Doubt you'll see any abs with all that hair


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Welcome  .



Astronomyphilly said:


> 31 years, 6"8 currently 176lb ( started at 180 ) by my scales. They give a bodyfat estimate ( and I know it's just that ) of 11.7%
> 
> Firstly calculated my BMR at 1650 and TDEE at just over 2000 calories so eating 4 - 5 times a day for 1500 calories
> 
> This seems way low and I think I may have calculated this wrong ( so much for that physics degree! ) so if anyone could accurately do this for me I'd be extremely grateful.


Those figures sound too low to me as well (assuming you mean you are 6'8" tall). Using the Harris-Benedict formula here I get an approximate BMR of 1967 kcal. As you have a physics degree (like me), check this and see if you agree.

You'll likely have an activity multiplier of at least 1.4, giving a TDEE of at least 2750 kcal. BUT calculations like this are VERY approximate, and should only ever be used as a rough guide and starting point. As a starting point for cutting I wouldn't have gone below 2000 kcal per day based on that.

However, if I'm reading you're post correctly you have been eating just 1500 kcal for 6 weeks now, is that right?


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ha, quite possibly right 

But truth is there's still a good amount to shift from there, a good 10 mill if I pinch the skin and as I said, just stalled these last few weeks and I don't know why or what to do. Or even if what I'm doing and eating is really correct.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Ultrasonic said:


> However, if I'm reading you're post correctly you have been eating just 1500 kcal for 6 weeks now, is that right?


What is the answer to this question?


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

If I was your size and weight I'd bulk to be honest.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Bulk and shave ffs lol


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## M_at (May 2, 2009)

For quite a few people on here BMI is a dumb concept - more muscle than average puts it out. But you're in the regular category and so it makes sense.

You've just 8lbs away from being what a clinician would consider underweight.

I'm going to agree with @UkWardy - look to increase your muscle mass rather than cut further. Add some solid mass and then you can look to shift any extra bf afterwards although you may find that you no longer feel the requirement to.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> What is the answer to this question?


Yep, give or take any errors in the apps and sites I use to track, 1500 or slightly over each day is what I'm getting with those macros.

Seems I was way out on the calculations as I thought so I appreciate that.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

M_at said:


> For quite a few people on here BMI is a dumb concept - more muscle than average puts it out. But you're in the regular category and so it makes sense.
> 
> You've just 8lbs away from being what a clinician would consider underweight.
> 
> I'm going to agree with @UkWardy - look to increase your muscle mass rather than cut further. Add some solid mass and then you can look to shift any extra bf afterwards although you may find that you no longer feel the requirement to.


I'm inclined to agree with yourself and ward, of it wasn't for the holiday coming up I would be.

I feel I've done great and I've never felt so fit in my life, fat dissapeared everywhere yet there's still this big 15 mill fold on my stomach I just hate.

Perhaps you're right, body's adapted and can't go any lower and holding on to that last bit? I did think 1500 was low but I wasn't sure on the calculations, monitored it, was losing weight at about 1lb a week and so kept at it. Just this last little bit and few weeks, nothing.

Ahian, I appreciate all the advice, great stuff from everybody.


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## Big George (May 4, 2015)

If I were u I'd forget the cutting and aim for at least 3500 cals and >250g protein, try and put some size on first..


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> I feel I've done great and I've never felt so fit in my life, fat dissapeared everywhere yet there's still this big 15 mill fold on my stomach I just hate.


First up, well done on making the improvements you have :thumbup1: .

Where you go from here is tough, as this is one of those 'I wouldn't be starting from here' problems... When in August are you going away?

In the long term you need to be eating more, and very likely changing your training, so that you can start to build more muscle. When you do, don't increase your calories suddenly as this will be a good way to gain fat, you want to do this gradually.

As you say, your body has to some extent adapted to your very low calorie intake and exercise. You probably are still losing weight but at a slower rate to how you were to begin with. One thing you could try is to have perhaps two days where you eat large amounts of carbs but very little fat, to give you perhaps 2500 kcal each day. Then go back to what you have been doing and see if this has improved fat loss. It might, or it might not, but worth a try. (The idea behind the suggestion is to try to increse your leptin levels and therefore raise your BMR again.) If this helps, then having refeed day like this every week or two may be the way to go.

One thing to check I suppose is whether your 1500 kcal figure is completely accurate. Are you counting absolutely everything that you eat and drink?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Just to add that the two high carb days will likely make your weight go up due to replenishing glycogen levels in your muscles, which will also draw more water into your muscles with it. It shouldn't increase your body fat much if at all though. Calipers are a way of tracking this a little better than a mirror FWIW.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Thank you, appreciate that. I've always been healthy and fairly active and I spend a heap of time hiking up and down mountains with my work, but, this is the first time I've decided to go all out like this.* Really enjoy the weights again,* feels great 

It's not set in stone but 3rd week August is looking likely, depends on her work commitments etc as she's started a new job this week.

I've read a little on the refeed days and that might be the the way to so as not to just bump up calories drastically I agree.

I do log or barcode scan anything I eat and bearing any errors in the software or labels I'm confident it's around 1500. I'll post up today's meals later this afternoon .

What would you recommend I change with the training? Cut the cardio down some?

Thanks in advance as always.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> I do log or barcode scan anything I eat and bearing any errors in the software or labels I'm confident it's around 1500. I'll post up today's meals later this afternoon.


It's always worth checking data in Myfitnesspal, other users do sometimes enter stupid things...



> What would you recommend I change with the training? Cut the cardio down some?


Probably switch to a whole body routine like e.g. Stronglifts for at least a couple of months, then adjust if from there depending on progress to add in some higher rep work. If you posted your actual current routine it would be easier to say though.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

I've noticed that it's not always accurate, I haven't found a site or app that is to be fair but find that Fat Secret seems to be the best so far and that's what I've been using last few weeks.

I'll post routine and today's meals this evening. Train Monday to Friday and weekends off. Still be out walking or cycling or doing stuff though. Very rarely just sit about. No alcohol since Christmas


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> I've noticed that it's not always accurate, I haven't found a site or app that is to be fair but find that Fat Secret seems to be the best so far and that's what I've been using last few weeks.
> 
> I'll post routine and today's meals this evening. Train Monday to Friday and weekends off. Still be out walking or cycling or doing stuff though. Very rarely just sit about. No alcohol since Christmas


I've not tried Fat Secret but I'd be surprised if Myfitnesspal isn't better, simply by virtue of having some many more users. Either way, so long as you check and correct the data yourself as needed it shouldn't make any difference.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The user interface on myfitnesspal certainly isn't perfect mind, so Fat Secret may well win there. I did just look up one food out of interest on Fat Secret. It was significantly wrong, but I could have easily found the same with MFP.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

I struggled with my fitness pal, seemed too much of a palava at first and Fat Secret ha a nice way of showing individual macros and total for the day so far on home page.

As you guys have been saying even it and some of the other sites have been giving me a weight warning now, am I sure I want to go lower etc etc.

So as it stands with that third week in August sort of deadline I shouod be on two days refeedng to say 2000 calories and see how I go for a few? Drop the cardio and increase the weight I'm lifting a bit more?

It's just this big fold on my tummy when you pinch that's annoying me, was going well, car certainly feel the muscle and ridges underneath now so to speak, just wish this last bit would shift


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

As suppose you're right with with either, just check check and check again till your as certain as can be. I just like the interface as you say and that front page macro listings, easy to look at a t a glance


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> So as it stands with that third week in August sort of deadline I shouod be on two days refeedng to say 2000 calories and see how I go for a few? Drop the cardio and increase the weight I'm lifting a bit more?


No. Or rather that's not what I suggested anyway. What I said was try two high carb but very low fat (as low as you can manage) refeed days at about 2500 kcal. I wouldn't reduce cardio or change your weight training right now, just see what effect the diet change has. If you change several things at once you won't know what is making the difference...

If you posted up exactly what your actual current training was it might be informative though.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> As suppose you're right with with either, just check check and check again till your as certain as can be. I just like the interface as you say and that front page macro listings, easy to look at a t a glance


MFP is a bit odd in that some things are better on the app, and some things on the website version. They are different. Neither is perfect though. I may actually register with Fat Secret just to see what it's like...


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Bench Press 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps

Bent Over Row 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps

Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3/8-10

Incline dumbell flys presses 3/10

Bicep Curl: 3/10

Tricep Pull 3/10

Front Squat: 4 sets of 8/10

Deadlift: 3 8/10

Lunges: 3/10-12

Hamstring Curl 3/10-12

Standing Calf Raises*

Cardio and redo whatever I felt I was weakest on last week.

Barbell and dumbell curls 3/10

Incline Bench Press 3/8-10

Lat Pull-down 3/8-10

Shoulder Press 3/8-10

Front Lateral Raises: 3/8

Shrugs 3/10

Leg Press 3/8-10

Hamstring Curl: 3/10

Seated Calf Raises 3/8-10

The Hiit cardio sprints and jogging I mentioned at the start I do at least 4 times a week after working out. Sometimes I'll go out in the morning if I feel up to it just to vary things but tends leaves me struggling on the weights if I do that too much.

Slowly increase weight when I feel I've got all the reps in a nice controlled way. Has increased but not by much yet.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> No. Or rather that's not what I suggested anyway. What I said was try two high carb but very low fat (as low as you can manage) refeed days at about 2500 kcal. I wouldn't reduce cardio or change your weight training right now, just see what effect the diet change has. If you change several things at once you won't know what is making the difference...
> 
> If you posted up exactly what your actual current training was it might be informative though.


Thank you, my mistake there. Best way to carb up and is there a good time to do so? Or just add throughout the day?

Really appreciate all this advice. Great stuff, thank you


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Thank you, my mistake there. Best way to carb up and is there a good time to do so? Or just add throughout the day?
> 
> Really appreciate all this advice. Great stuff, thank you


I'd just do it thoughout the day. This will also give you a mental break from dieting - enjoy eating different food for a couple of days. Crumpets are one good high carb but low fat food BTW (bread has much more fat). Feel free to have some sugar and fruit, but don't just have that as fructose doesn't stimulate leptin, which is what you're after. (Normal sugar - sucrose - is 50% fructose and 50% glucose BTW.)

I'm not guaranteeing the refeeds will help but they might, and if you've got stuck in a rut on such low calories it's worth a try...


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Really helpful thanks. Hey its worth a try and has helped plenty others from reading around this forum, seems a common thing to do.

The day off from strict dieting would be welcome and who doesn't love crumpets


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Bench Press 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps
> 
> Bent Over Row 3 sets of 8 - 10 reps
> 
> ...


So you're going for an upper/lower split, twice per week? That's a pretty decent way to structure training and that routine doesn't look terrible. Although my personal preference for a beginner would be something that focuses far more on getting stronger on the basic lifts, like e.g. Stonglifts, with chin-ups added. A middle ground would be to make one of each of your upper and lower workouts more strength focused i.e. lower rep.

Where did you get that routine from out of interest? I'm assuiming it's not something you came up with, right?

Your main issue will be that as you are on such low calories you won't grow much muscle right now.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> The day off from strict dieting would be welcome and who doesn't love crumpets


Just don't put butter on them...


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

A combination of guys at the gym who at least look like they know their stuff, what I used to do years ago and routines on this forum. They all suggested many more reps but I've upped the weight and lowered them so I struggle at the limit, and increase when I feel I'm doing it nice and controlled and relatively easier than I started.

Theres no real reason behind splitting like that, it's just how it is. First few weeks I was doing upper and lower each day, couldn't go as heavy.

Can certainly do that, up the weight and lower the reps. I'll take that on board next week


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just don't put butter on them...


Probably cottage cheese me thinks.

Do you think that 11% BF estimate is correct then? I'm just looking and pinching my skin and curious to know what exactly I might be. I thought more like 15% > looking at some folk on here.

I'll do what we've decided and get a pair of calipers to make sure it's not increasing too much whilst I go a few weeks with the upped carbs and upped weight on couple exercises. I don't want to weigh any less but do want to shift this! We'll see


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Probably cottage cheese me thinks.
> 
> Do you think that 11% BF estimate is correct then? I'm just looking and pinching my skin and curious to know what exactly I might be. I thought more like 15% > looking at some folk on here.
> 
> I'll do what we've decided and get a pair of calipers to make sure it's not increasing too much whilst I go a few weeks with the upped carbs and upped weight on couple exercises. I don't want to weigh any less but do want to shift this! We'll see


Cottage cheese is disgusting (to me!) but if that's fat free then great.

Pretty sure you understood this, but just increase carbs for a couple of days, then back to where you are at the moment.

The main exercises to look at going heavier on are the main compound lifts: bench press, squat, deadlift and shoulder press. Don't start trying to do heavy flys etc.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Crumpets with e.g. honey would be more the way I'd go BTW.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Crumpets with e.g. honey would be more the way I'd go BTW.


The 2% stuff isn't bad, tubs of it but the fat free really isn't so good.

Where'd you get your physics degree by the way? Ever actually utilise it or make a career from it? I really struggled gor years after and kind if still am. Doing a masters in geology trekking up to Aberdeen each week.

I'll up them, monitor weight, calipers for fat and report back end of each week


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Degree from Oxford and I now work as a clinical scientist for the NHS, specialising in radiotherapy (which uses primarily high energy X-rays to treat cancer).


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Pretty impressive you've done well. I was at Durham but really struggled to use it but think I've found a niche in geophysics and subsurface imaging with the oil companies up here.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Pretty impressive you've done well. I was at Durham but really struggled to use it but think I've found a niche in geophysics and subsurface imaging with the oil companies up here.


I suspect there's more money in what you're doing .


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

It is stupid what you can earn yes, obscene in fact. But its also incredibly difficult to get a foot in the door and you are responsible for making some pretty large and expensive decisions. The responsibility that's put on to you scared me a bit but it's a fantastic job, your 'office' is the outdoors and you can be compensated well. I spent March on the isle if Arran up an extinct volcano, was epic....untill it started to snow


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Aberdeen is a grim place though too, too be fair so is leeds but it certainly beat this. For all the money up here it's not particularly endearing and seems to go in people's pockets rather than back in to the city.

Back to that 11% or so fat estimate, do you think that's about right? I am curious to know whereabouts I'm at and what the 15 mill fold equates to or thereabouts.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I have no idea about body fat percentage. As far is I'm concerned it's an irrelevant number.

The different ways of measuring body fat percentage all have significant uncertainties BTW, I'll try to remember to post you a link later when I'm using my laptop rather than phone.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

I suppose it is irrelevant to an extent. I'd just like to get an idea so I can monitor and watch it doesn't get too high - must've been at least double what it is now. Although as you say whether the numbers right or wrong so long as it stays as is or goes the right way happy days. I don't want to get too anal here I suppose.

Appreciate the help and any links, really good advice all through so thank you


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Seems like I'm in a bit late here, but if you want to cut first I see no problem mate. I think it's a good idea to start from a good lean base even if you're temporarily going to be underweight at the end of the weight loss phase.

From there you can eat at TDEE and focus on gaining muscle - when you're a beginner with little muscle mass, just covering your TDEE will provide adequate nutrition to build muscle quickly, whilst not adding any fat. Newb gains phase ftw  Don't forget to increase calories as weight goes up. You'll eventually have to start eating over maintenance to keeping gaining, but for the first 6-12 months eating at TDEE will work.

But yeah, cutting right off the bat is fine IMO. Seems like you have a grip of the basics already which is excellent, many fail to do this.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

> Seems like I'm in a bit late here, but if you want to cut first I see no problem mate. I think it's a good idea to start from a good lean base even if you're temporarily going to be underweight at the end of the weight loss phase.
> 
> From there you can eat at TDEE and focus on gaining muscle - when you're a beginner with little muscle mass, just covering your TDEE will provide adequate nutrition to build muscle quickly, whilst not adding any fat. Newb gains phase ftw  Don't forget to increase calories as weight goes up. You'll eventually have to start eating over maintenance to keeping gaining, but for the first 6-12 months eating at TDEE will work.
> 
> But yeah, cutting right off the bat is fine IMO. Seems like you have a grip of the basics already which is excellent, many fail to do this.


Well thanks for that buddy, yeah I've had sporadic session at the gym in the past and always been fit and active but I just want to up it and do it full on and get to where I want to be.

I dont know if you've read through yet but I've been cutting dieting at ( what seems now to be ) silly low calories -1500- I must've made a cock up with the calulations but I've stuck to it religiously and was happy as with the training and was dropping 1lb per week, fat dissapeared all over but the last few it stalled and there's still this damn stuff on my tummy.

Having two refeed days of carbs has been suggested the way to go as I don't really want to go any lower and I'm already ping plenty cardio and weights. Think my body has adapted and is trying to hold on to that last bit of fat on my stomach. Scales say 11% but whether that's even near you'd probably be a better judge, can certainly feel them under there now though!

Just want to shift for the holiday coming up and get as lean as I can then bulk properly after that. I know as has been said I need to be eating more in the long run and starting like this might spur some fat loss again.

I appreciate all the help and advice I can get so if you've any further thoughts....

A few have mentioned at the gym CLA but would I benefit at all?

Lean and perhaps a little under weight as you say would suit me for now and I can build on that and see clearly what's going on in future.

Thank as always, both of you


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> I suppose it is irrelevant to an extent. I'd just like to get an idea so I can monitor and watch it doesn't get too high - must've been at least double what it is now. Although as you say whether the numbers right or wrong so long as it stays as is or goes the right way happy days. I don't want to get too anal here I suppose.


I track caliper measurements so I know how I'm doing. For example I'm bulking at the moment but I know I can get back to the point where my abs start to show with a couple of weeks cutting if I want. It's just the actual percentage body fat that I don't care about.

In case you're interested, this is a link explaining why bathroom scales are crap at estimating body fat percentage, and other pages in the series discuss the alternative methods:

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=218


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I track caliper measurements so I know how I'm doing. For example I'm bulking at the moment but I know I can get back to the point where my abs start to show with a couple of weeks cutting if I want. It's just the actual percentage body fat that I don't care about.
> 
> In case you're interested, this is a link explaining why bathroom scales are crap at estimating body fat percentage, and other pages in the series discuss the alternative methods:
> 
> http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=218


Not what i thought I'd be reading in bed but looks interesting non the less, so thanks for that.

I know they're crap from the of and all it does really is provide a guide, so long as it's going the right way is what matters I suppose. Just wondered what % I might actually be at and exactly how far out it is.

Calipers as you say, first thing.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Well thanks for that buddy, yeah I've had sporadic session at the gym in the past and always been fit and active but I just want to up it and do it full on and get to where I want to be.
> 
> I dont know if you've read through yet but I've been cutting dieting at ( what seems now to be ) silly low calories -1500- I must've made a cock up with the calulations but I've stuck to it religiously and was happy as with the training and was dropping 1lb per week, fat dissapeared all over but the last few it stalled and there's still this damn stuff on my tummy.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'd say chuck in some refeed weekends (or whatever days you like) as well mate, certainly helped me out when I was cutting earlier this year, mentally as well as physically. You can keep the calories low in general if you like as you'll lose weight faster and the metabolic slowdown from a big deficit shouldn't be an issue with refeeds, so really it's just a case of whether you feel like it'll be more mentally sustainable to add in more calories during the week or not IMO.

I'm not really a fan of over-the-counter supps unless for health reasons, most stuff that actually helps fat loss or muscle gain has already been put on the controlled substance list (or has been in most other countries at least) or is currently a "research chemical" that's yet to go through official approval :wink: Only exception of course would be whey protein which is just a viable food replacement anyway.

And give that chest/stomach a good shaving before you go as well buddy :thumb:


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

> Yeah I'd say chuck in some refeed weekends (or whatever days you like) as well mate, certainly helped me out when I was cutting earlier this year, mentally as well as physically. You can keep the calories low in general if you like as you'll lose weight faster and the metabolic slowdown from a big deficit shouldn't be an issue with refeeds, so really it's just a case of whether you feel like it'll be more mentally sustainable to add in more calories during the week or not IMO.
> 
> I'm not really a fan of over-the-counter supps unless for health reasons, most stuff that actually helps fat loss or muscle gain has already been put on the controlled substance list (or has been in most other countries at least) or is currently a "research chemical" that's yet to go through official approval :wink: Only exception of course would be whey protein which is just a viable food replacement anyway.
> 
> And give that chest/stomach a good shaving before you go as well buddy :thumb:


Haha 

I'll tell you what, I did a while ago when I used to train and dear God when it starts to grow back and chafe and itch, never again mate. Besides she likes it 

I've had my first refeed day now, added carbs, kept fat at around 40g and calories were about 2450. Never felt so stuffed in ages!

Usual cardio and weight session, didn't particularly feel any different, just a bit 'full' with the extra calories.

I must say, thanks for all the help and advice and well done comments, every little helps 

Just in case you guys are wondering what I'm on about, fat going everywhere but this stomach stuff, I mean this..



If I tense up or do abs exercises there's clearly defination and muscles under there!

I'll keep at it, keep posting on progress and thank you all again, top stuff


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Haha
> 
> I'll tell you what, I did a while ago when I used to train and dear God when it starts to grow back and chafe and itch, never again mate. Besides she likes it
> 
> ...


Yeah it's normally after the refeed you feel the effects mate, after refeeding on a Saturday and Sunday I'd always have a great workout on Monday :thumbup1: I just said to hell with macros on my refeed days and just kept my calories in check, would buy a large Domino's Mighty Meaty for breakfast and divide it up into four sittings to last the day, was still significant restriction for me to eat such small portions but wasn't at all bad.

I know the feeling btw buddy, stomach is a very stubborn area for me.

Good luck pal :thumb:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> I've had my first refeed day now, added carbs, *kept fat at around 40g* and calories were about 2450.


That fat figure is on the high side, see if you can reduce it tomorrow. You ideally want fat as low as you can get it - under 20g is certainly achievable. The reason is that any fat you do consume on refeed days will very likely end up as body fat. More fat also means less carbs which means less of a possible effect on leptin.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> That fat figure is on the high side, see if you can reduce it tomorrow. You ideally want fat as low as you can get it - under 20g is certainly achievable. The reason is that any fat you do consume on refeed days will very likely end up as body fat. More fat also means less carbs which means less of a possible effect on leptin.


Thanks for the advice as always. Brown rice was where calories mainly came from I'll watch things more closely tomorrow and try half that amount. Post up what I manage.

I posted a pic earlier re the stomach area. Been like that for easily 2.5 weeks, no loss at all, really bugging me as definately some decent defined muscles under their now.

As I said before, nice to feel 'full' gor a change


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Brown rice was where calories mainly came from I'll watch things more closely tomorrow and try half that amount.


There's not much fat in brown rice, so it's other foods you want to be checking... Watch out for things like oats, and bread, and more obviously milk, nuts and cheese. As well as the crumpets I mentioned, economy cornflakes are another good high carb (but low sugar) food with little fat.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Brown rice again today to keep the fat down and get the calories in, really struggled to be honest, soo full. As of now at 2340. Think yesterday it may have been the bread.

Can someone quote me a decent site with calorie listings as I'm getting confusing macros for fat - 16 grams in 220 grams of plain chicken breast?

I'll post up my normal 1500 or so and see what you guys make of it, be a real help.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Breakfast

1 egg yolk

5 whites

Tea with skimmed milk or black coffee

2 slices wholemeal toast

100g cottage cheese

Lunch

Chicken breast

Broccoli or Cauliflower

Salad

Dinner

Chicken breast or steak

Broccoli / cauliflower

Cottage cheese

Baked sweet potato

Snacks

Carrot sticks and cottage cheese

Protein yoghurt

Avacados

Almonds

This averags - depending on what I eat - 40 fat

110 carbs

155 protein

1430 calories

May switch the odd thing for a protein shake if I don't have time or oats in the morning if I feel like doing cardio in the morning.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

I appreciate I may well be waaaay out and you guys can devise a better meal plan or better foods. I weigh everything to the gram including the milk and log it with fat secret. Those are the average results each day. Thanks fellas


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Can someone quote me a decent site with calorie listings as I'm getting confusing macros for fat - 16 grams in 220 grams of plain chicken breast?


Nothing like that much fat in a chicken breast; my guess that is a value with the skin included. I usually go with the label on the pack any food comes in, but if you want a website this one seems good:

Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Chicken, broilers or fryers, breast, meat only, raw

If you're full stop eating and don't worry about it (my 2500 kcal figure was very much a ballpark guess of something sensible). Or have a few Haribo.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sorry, not got time to post properly about your diet right now, but you're not throwing away egg yolks are you? Bit of a waste of food in my book...


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Thanks for that. A lot of the time it's from the butchers so there's no packet for me to look at but 90% of my food there is, just thought that was way wrong.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Started freezing them and give them to the folks, don't know what she does with them,loves to bake so I'm guessing custards and tarts etc...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Started freezing them and give them to the folks, don't know what she does with them,loves to bake so I'm guessing custards and tarts etc...


Once you've got your holiday out the way you can eat those things too .

Try to stick to your 1500 kcal per day target, rather than dropping even lower as for your example. Also try not to let your daily fat figure drop much below 40g.

Not sure how much you struggle with feeling hungry but having whey as a snack mid-morning or mid-afternoon can help.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

So long as I space my meals evenly throughout the day I don't really 'feel' hungry at all.

It was the cholesterol and fat in the yolks that I didn't really want so just throw the one in with the whites.

I'll continue as I have been for the week at the 1500 and see what the scales/calipers say come weekend.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

With that diet above fat is around 40g each day, maybe more if I have an avacado and swap something


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Whether the fats in egg yolks are likely to do you any harm is open to debate, but it's not an area I've looked into much. There are lots of good nutrients in egg yolks though.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Soon as this and the holiday are over, or perhaps even before, I'll be eating them up as I used too no worries there!!

How do people manage on here when the fat loss or gains stall for so long? It's a bit disheartening to see it dissappear - albeit slowly - everywhere else but barely a millimetre off that stomach. I known it's last to go and to just keep at it and rest assured I am, for as long as it takes but I kind of expected some improvement by now.

You can see from the last pic uploaded what I'm on about.

And if anyone has any pointers on my diet or advanced nutrition and dieting strategies I could use please jump in. Give anything a try.

Steady at the same weight after those two reefed days which surprised me. No change to anything else apart from going a bit heavier on a couple exercises as suggested.

Cheers always.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Soon as this and the holiday are over, or perhaps even before, I'll be eating them up as I used too no worries there!!
> 
> How do people manage on here when the fat loss or gains stall for so long? It's a bit disheartening to see it dissappear - albeit slowly - everywhere else but barely a millimetre off that stomach. I known it's last to go and to just keep at it and rest assured I am, for as long as it takes but I kind of expected some improvement by now.
> 
> ...


The next time you cut you want to start doing so eating much higher calories than you did this time. Then when weight loss stalls you have room to drop calories further. Similarly don't start with loads of cardio, as again this is something you can increase as fat loss stalls.

I'd only check skin fold measurements once per week by the way. If you start expecting to see changes every day you're going to be disappointed! See where you're at no Saturday morning.

Beyond refeeds your only option likely to make a difference is eating less or doing more cardio. There are plenty of more complicated approaches you could try but finding clear evidence any offer a clear advantage over simply enabling people to stick to a calorie deficit is difficult...


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> The next time you cut you want to start doing so eating much higher calories than you did this time. Then when weight loss stalls you have room to drop calories further. Similarly don't start with loads of cardio, as again this is something you can increase as fat loss stalls.
> 
> I'd only check skin fold measurements once per week by the way. If you start expecting to see changes every day you're going to be disappointed! See where you're at no Saturday morning.
> 
> Beyond refeeds your only option likely to make a difference is eating less or doing more cardio. There are plenty of more complicated approaches you could try but finding clear evidence any offer a clear advantage over simply enabling people to stick to a calorie deficit is difficult...


Indeed, it stems from that original 1500 I'd calculated, obviously way out but I at as steadily losing the weight, feel fine so kept at it.

Sure, I only really weigh myself once a week, same time. I was just wondering as fat still going elsewhere but not a thing in weeks from stomach area - I expected something within these last few weeks.

It makes sense now what you guys say available out slowly changing one thi bbc at a time. I may increase cardio next week as I don't want to eat any less.

Always at as eight a x pelted esky or th asking as you guys have way more knowledge than me.

Will let you know where I'm at Sunday  thanks as always.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

It's actually worth weighing yourself daily, and looking at how average values vary from week to week (or look at some sort of running average). This is because day to day variations can be significant, due to variations in hydration and how much food is in the GI tract. You'll see what I mean if you start weighing yourself daily...

Am I understanding it right that you are measuring skin fold reductions in some places, but not over your abs? If so you just have to persevere. People vary a bit in where they lose body fat when, but generally for men fat over the abs is preserved the longest.

There are one or two studies showing that green tea may help preferentially shift abdominal fat, but the evidence is pretty weak. Something for you to maybe look into if you have time.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

i dont understand why you would want to cut, you will look ill. personally i would cut the cardio, go hard and heavy on the weights and bulk.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

If you slowly increase your muscle mass your BF % will drop as matter of ratio. #

As a weight training newbie you might even lose additional fat in the process too


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's actually worth weighing yourself daily, and looking at how average values vary from week to week (or look at some sort of running average). This is because day to day variations can be significant, due to variations in hydration and how much food is in the GI tract. You'll see what I mean if you start weighing yourself daily...
> 
> Am I understanding it right that you are measuring skin fold reductions in some places, but not over your abs? If so you just have to persevere. People vary a bit in where they lose body fat when, but generally for men fat over the abs is preserved the longest.
> 
> There are one or two studies showing that green tea may help preferentially shift abdominal fat, but the evidence is pretty weak. Something for you to maybe look into if you have time.


Yep pretty much, weight remaining level still and fat skin folds going down everywhere except there. Guess I just didn't know how stubborn it can be. I honestly thought I'd see some improvement after these last few weeks.

Green tea, hmm, we ll I try and drunk 's cup a day or when I can be bothered as I really don't like it. I've seen green tea extract supplements you can just take with your normal tea, might try those for a couple weeks and look into it so thanks.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> i dont understand why you would want to cut, you will look ill. personally i would cut the cardio, go hard and heavy on the weights and bulk.


Hey fella, if you've been following it's more because I've a holiday coming up and just wanted to be in a bit better shape for it. Personally I'd rather shift all the excess and be pretty lean and fit before I start upping things. Personal preference I guess. I've already lost a a fair bit just kinda stalled now and I can't be eating any less.

I'm going harder and heaver on the weights as a few have suggested, upped calories slightly and weight remaining thee same whilst fat goes down, just nothing on the abdominal area, at all in weeks.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> If you slowly increase your muscle mass your BF % will drop as matter of ratio. #
> 
> As a weight training newbie you might even lose additional fat in the process too


Of course, I understand that. I just in all fairness had quite a bit excess fat to shift and I'd been doing well losing it steadily and weight remaining steady so kept at it, just stalled and can't honestly think eating any less will help, training would suffer I'm sure but otherwise feel better than I ever have.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Hey fella, if you've been following it's more because I've a holiday coming up and just wanted to be in a bit better shape for it. Personally I'd rather shift all the excess and be pretty lean and fit before I start upping things. Personal preference I guess. I've already lost a a fair bit just kinda stalled now and I can't be eating any less.
> 
> I'm going harder and heaver on the weights as a few have suggested, upped calories slightly and *weight remaining thee same whilst fat goes down*, just nothing on the abdominal area, at all in weeks.


sounds like your fat is getting replaced with muscle which can only be a good thing.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Of course, I understand that. I just in all fairness had quite a bit excess fat to shift and I'd been doing well losing it steadily and weight remaining steady so kept at it, just stalled and can't honestly think eating any less will help, training would suffer I'm sure but otherwise feel better than I ever have.


after a sustained period of dieting most people will do better by upping their calories again for a sustained period. This will raise your BMR (which drops after a peroid of sustained dieting), then you will accelerate your fat loss further down the path


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Yep pretty much, weight remaining level still and fat skin folds going down everywhere except there. Guess I just didn't know how stubborn it can be. I honestly thought I'd see some improvement after these last few weeks.
> 
> Green tea, hmm, we ll I try and drunk 's cup a day or when I can be bothered as I really don't like it. I've seen green tea extract supplements you can just take with your normal tea, might try those for a couple weeks and look into it so thanks.


OK, so your fat loss hasn't actually stalled then . Your body obviously wants to lose fat elsewhere first but you're still getting nearer to seeing your abs. Well, you would be if it wasn't for the body hair .

Chances are green tea will make no difference. I mentioned it for you to look into, not to say it will definitely help.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> sounds like your fat is getting replaced with muscle which can only be a good thing.


I'm sure it is, it's pretty easy to see and I'm very pleased with how I'm doing. Just surprised why it stops over your abdominal area? No change there for weeks but as you say, can certainly feel changes underneath now! Just wish I could shift a bit there as well to see.

Really enjoying things still and you guys are a great source of advice and help. Cheers.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> after a sustained period of dieting most people will do better by upping their calories again for a sustained period. This will raise your BMR (which drops after a peroid of sustained dieting), then you will accelerate your fat loss further down the path


Already started this by having two reefed days with carbs a week, another 1000 calories or so. Managed 1000 one and just over the following day so we'll see how it goes after a few weeks like this.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> OK, so your fat loss hasn't actually stalled then . Your body obviously wants to lose fat elsewhere first but you're still getting nearer to seeing your abs. Well, you would be if it wasn't for the body hair .
> 
> Chances are green tea will make no difference. I mentioned it for you to look into, not to say it will definitely help.


Ha  I'm never doing that again, having was just awful.

I tell you what I don't think I would be, I might be able to feel them and stick my finger in between them but there's still plenty to shift it seems. Look at fold in that pic,

Hey I know I doubt it will but I'm sure theres at leaat something in it, I half drink it already and its worth a shot for a month to see if I can spot any improvement with it. Just get the extract stuff and drink normal tea


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Ha  I'm never doing that again, having was just awful.
> 
> I tell you what I don't think I would be, I might be able to feel them and stick my finger in between them but there's still plenty to shift it seems. Look at fold in that pic,
> 
> Hey I know I doubt it will but I'm sure theres at leaat something in it, I half drink it already and its worth a shot for a month to see if I can spot any improvement with it. Just get the extract stuff and drink normal tea


i drink green tea, it has many benefits but weight loss isn't one of them. Save your money, most supplements are a waste of money.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ILLBehaviour said:


> i drink green tea, it has many benefits but weight loss isn't one of them. Save your money, most supplements are a waste of money.


I drink tea because I like it. Proper loose leaf green tea that is, not the rubbish in supermarket teabags. It might also offer some small health benefits but I'm certainly not counting on it.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Of course, I'm sure any difference is negligible but I just thought any edge you can get, and over the course of a few months however small can up significantly. There's lots about green tea having a thermogenic effect but as to what that amounts to, for how long and how much you need to drink, as well as everyone being different, the effects are as you say, probably negligible. But I'm happy to try anything.

Only supplements are my protein shakes but I've even replaced 99% of them with whole food, didn't even include them in that diet plan anymore.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Of course, I'm sure any difference is negligible but I just thought any edge you can get, and over the course of a few months however small can up significantly. There's lots about green tea having a thermogenic effect but as to what that amounts to, for how long and how much you need to drink, as well as everyone being different, the effects are as you say, probably negligible. But I'm happy to try anything.
> 
> Only supplements are my protein shakes but I've even replaced 99% of them with whole food, didn't even include them in that diet plan anymore.


Note that when I mentioned green tea it was in relation to the possibility of preferentially losing abdominal fat, not increasing fat loss as a whole. As I said, any evidence is very weak though, and it's not something I've looked at for a long while.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

I've got you, and if it really does target that ( which I find hard to believe but we'll see) then happy days. Any possible edge I can get.

The only other thing I hear from guys at the gym is the real steroids stuff which is off the table and Cla? A few people have recommended I give that a shot but again, something I'm not familiar with.

I'll stick to this for the remainder of the month and see where we're at then.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

It's probably too difficult to judge whether any of these things work when your on a proper diet and training hard. I'll just stick to what I'm doing, perhaps try drink more green tea and see how the next few weeks pan out.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> It's probably too difficult to judge whether any of these things work when your on a proper diet and training hard. I'll just stick to what I'm doing, perhaps try drink more green tea and see how the next few weeks pan out.


Absolutely. Do this. Remember that you are losing fat. But be realistic - whatever you do before your holiday you won't end up with the body you really want, as that will involve gaining more muscle mass. For someone training without steroids significant changes are very much a long term game, with consistancy paying off over time.

(Just to show I wasn't just making stuff up earlier, here is the study I was referring regarding green tea and abdominal fat:

Green Tea Catechin Consumption Enhances Exercise-Induced Abdominal Fat Loss in Overweight and Obese Adults

I'd want to look into the statistics myself before drawing any strong conclusions... You also aren't obese, unlike the trial participants.

For balance, here is another study showing that green tea doesn't make any difference, although it is potentially significant that this intervention did not include exercise (as far as I can tell quickly - I haven't had time to read it properly):

British Journal of Nutrition - Effect of green tea on resting energy expenditure and substrate oxidation during weight loss in overweight females - Cambridge Journals Online)


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Has a quick read of that first one and it is cerainly interesting that there was a reduction specifically in abdominal fat but as you say, all participants had a BMI over 25 to begin with.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Had a quick weigh in just now after weights and 171.6 lbs . Certainly losing fat and gaining muscle, but again that unsightly roll below your belly button hasn't shrunk a bit. The muscle underneath feels like 3 mountains and valleys. Can almost hold a pencil there if I tense up! I'd quite like to glimpse them at least ???? I do abs maybe very other day at most, various crunches and leg raises, that's it.

It's crazy when I see people on here, albeit way more advanced than I drop lbs of fat and get cut up within weeks.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong or what more I can change - I'd certainly like to at least get a glimpse of them ( as I'm sure most do when starting out ) before I start eating and bulking up in 8 weeks or so.

I'd be curious to know how some of you guys on here found things when you started out or the first time you cut properly, pics, before and after, fat % lost and your routine. Anything you found to help? Perhaps there might be something I can try follow.

I'll keep at it though, nearly 5lbs in say 7 weeks or so. Defiantly more muscle than I started with. Scales saying 10 BF now but without the hair you still wouldn't see them.

Thanks always guys ????


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)




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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Just finished my cardio sprints, managed a few more than normal so happy with that but I really struggled with energy halfway through and had to just increase my rest time. Much clearer photos too...what do you guys think, small changes?


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Anyone?


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## Ghoosst (Jun 6, 2013)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Anyone?


Lift more, eat more (meat). I am a slim endurance athlete, but even I have bigger lats, and tris etc. I see no point in cutting with so little muscle, and no point to eat so little at your weight and height. Sorry for being harsh, but even skinny cyclists eat more and have more muscles. With the same bf % and more muscles you will look better IMHO. You will not build muscles eating so little.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ghoosst said:


> Lift more, eat more (meat). I am a slim endurance athlete, but even I have bigger lats, and tris etc. I see no point in cutting with so little muscle, and no point to eat so little at your weight and height. Sorry for being harsh, but even skinny cyclists eat more and have more muscles. With the same bf % and more muscles you will look better IMHO. You will not build muscles eating so little.


Well to be fair there's a lot more muscle than I started with and a good 4lbs less fat! And I don't know if you were aware but I 've only been doing this for some 7 weeks so I'm sure 99% of you have more muscle than me and that wasn't entirely the aim.

I think I'm looking ok and that I've done really well so far is shifting that fat, it's just this last stubborn bit, no change in weeks.

I do think as we've worked out that perhaps I got my TREE wrong and hence the low number, but I followed it, was losing just under 1lb a week and so kept at it.

If it wasn't for this holiday break coming then I'd be doing as a lot of you have suggested. But I would in all honesty rather shift it and start bulking as lean as I can be afterwards. I agree same BF more muscle = win, but losing as much fat as I could in the short term was the goal. Just kinda hit a wall lately.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I think you're underestimating how much more fat there is to lose over your whole body to get the look I think you want - it's not just a small stubborn bit left. I'm saying that to be harsh, but because you shouldn't be expecting to quickly get where you want to.

I can't answer your question earlier for myself, as I started by bulking rather than cutting. What I will say though is that gradually increasing the calories you eat over time makes cutting much easier when you come to it. How much were you eating before you started your cut out of interest? I slightly wonder if you've maybe been undereating for a long time, which could explain you not having lost more than you have so far. Just a guess.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I think you're underestimating how much more fat there is to lose over your whole body to get the look I think you want - it's not just a small stubborn bit left. I'm saying that dot to be harsh, but because you shouldn't be expecting to quickly get where you want to.
> 
> I can't answer your question earlier for myself, as I started by bulking rather than cutting. What I will say though is that gradually increasing the calories you eat over time makes cutting much easier when you come to it. How much were you eating before you started your cut out of interest? I slightly wonder if you've maybe been undereating for a long time, which could explain you not having lost more than you have so far. Just a guess.


Hey no of course not, and you've been giving really helpful advice throughout. It just kind of stopped there all of a sudden, honestly say no change in weeks yet elsewhere continues.

Oh, at a guess and not including wine which was pretty frequent with evening meal I'd say 2500 or thereabouts ( quick look with my app ) I was gaining weight and was just under 14 stone. I cycled 6 mile a night too vut no longer do that. That is a total rough guess inputting what we used to eat.

I'm not bothered about losing more I'm happy iys just going the right way and I think I've done well, I still am. Just curious as to why it suddenly stopped there. Hey go.

Thanks always guys

Weigh as of an hour ago was 171.3


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Depending on the wine I may not have been too far off on my guess then. If you were gaining weight on ballpark 2500 kcal then dropping to 1500 kcal is less extreme than it would otherwise seem. The fact that you've dropped the cycling (that will have used a few hundred calories I think) also means your calorie deficit won't actually have been as large as would normally be expected for someone your size eating so little.


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

Could well be right, it wasn't a lot or more precisely wasnt rapid but crept steadily up to 14 stone. And over not too long.

I would still cycle but my bike is at home - must remember to bring it with me - I thought the Hiit and sprinting would be better, certainly feels it.

So say my defecit isn't as extreme as we thought, and I can't eat less so just stick at it ?

Weight 171lb so it's going the right way, eating those carbs might re jogged things perhaps. I'll keep doing that.

I guess I'll just keep at it and hope I lose some from my stomach area


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Astronomyphilly said:


> Weigh as of an hour ago was 171.3


In your first post on 14 June you said you weighed 176 lb, which was 1 week before your post above when you said you now weigh 171.3 lbs. So that's about 5 lb lost in 1 week, compared to the 5 lb loss in 7 weeks you suggested above. Am I missing something?


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## Astronomyphilly (Jun 11, 2015)

No I think I am, there's a typo / date error there somewhere. I've made a mistake. Let me check my diary when I'm home as ive been recording weight there and the scales save it too


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