# Israel calls up 30,000 Reservist's



## Deeboy (Dec 1, 2007)

Could this be the start of big problems for everyone.

I dont think young people of today would be able to cope without everyday items should anything kick off from this.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/gaza-airstrikes-obama-urges-calm-israel-024246539.html


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

No one can keep throwing missiles at a country and not expect a reaction..

Rightly or wrongly pi$$ Israel off and they will bite back!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

lukeee said:


> No one can keep throwing missiles at a country and not expect a reaction..
> 
> Rightly or wrongly pi$$ Israel off and they will bite back!


And THAT is a very very bad move as Israel have the most battle hardened troops that exist today. Specially their israeli commandos


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## Twisted (Oct 6, 2010)

Israel don't pussy foot around that's for sure. Bet they didn't debate that too much in parliament like we would do.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> And THAT is a very very bad move as Israel have the most battle hardened troops that exist today. Specially their israeli commandos


On the one hand i feel sorry for the people of palestine as they have to live somewhere at the end of the day but they dont help themselves sometimes!

That said a customer of mine served in the army years ago when palestine was handed over to israel and he said the israelis were a wicked bunch, said he killed a few during the troubles and ive no reason to doubt him, particulaly wicked to innocent palestinians he reckoned!


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Israel is scum, done nothing but bully the palestines...hope Israel do get wiped out


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

lukeee said:


> On the one hand i feel sorry for the people of palestine as they have to live somewhere at the end of the day but they dont help themselves sometimes!
> 
> That said a customer of mine served in the army years ago when palestine was handed over to israel and he said the israelis were a wicked bunch, said he killed a few during the troubles and ive no reason to doubt him, particulaly wicked to innocent palestinians he reckoned!


And what is the cause of all this ? Oh thats right Gaza strip & palestine is a holy piece of land again religion prevails ey?


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## WillOdling (Aug 27, 2009)

A war in the middle east between two countries who have different majority religions.

Hold the front Page, what a shock


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

It will always be like this, Arabs fcuking hate jews full stop but America will never allow Israel to be wiped out and tbf they are one tough nation, they would all fight to the death!


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

barsnack said:


> Israel is scum, done nothing but bully the palestines...hope Israel do get wiped out


A bit harsh buddy...!!!


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

banjodeano said:


> A bit harsh buddy...!!!


well fair enough, ordinary israel people probaly are fine but israel have a serious problem with zionist, and there as bad paedo's in my book


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> And what is the cause of all this ? Oh thats right Gaza strip & palestine is a holy piece of land again religion prevails ey?


Told a mate once that the Gaza strip was named after Gazza after he visited there.. Cnut still believes it!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

lukeee said:


> Told a mate once that the Gaza strip was named after Gazza after he visited there.. Cnut still believes it!


Hhhhmmmmm not very bright your mate ey? :laugh:


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> Hhhhmmmmm not very bright your mate ey? :laugh:


Thick as sh!t mate! Also told him the satelites going across the sky one night while we were fishing were ufo's!


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## kiwiguy (Aug 23, 2012)

lukeee said:


> No one can keep throwing missiles at a country and not expect a reaction..
> 
> Rightly or wrongly pi$$ Israel off and they will bite back!


Tbh they are both as bad as each other. Extremist movements in gaza provoke israel knowing full well that they will hurt civilians in the response, try as hard as they do to avoid it, then put it on twitter, bbc news and the guardian where all the lefties get excited. Israel responds with full force arrogantly ignoring most of the muslim world who in turn help the extremists.



lukeee said:


> On the one hand i feel sorry for the people of palestine as they have to live somewhere at the end of the day but they dont help themselves sometimes!
> 
> That said a customer of mine served in the army years ago when palestine was handed over to israel and he said the israelis were a wicked bunch, said he killed a few during the troubles and ive no reason to doubt him, particulaly wicked to innocent palestinians he reckoned!


We were no different in ireland to our shame?



barsnack said:


> Israel is scum, done nothing but bully the palestines...hope Israel do get wiped out





barsnack said:


> well fair enough, ordinary israel people probaly are fine but israel have a serious problem with zionist, and there as bad paedo's in my book


Really? Paedos?

Do you read the guardian by any chance?


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

barsnack said:


> Israel is scum, done nothing but bully the palestines...hope Israel do get wiped out


x2


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

kiwiguy said:


> Tbh they are both as bad as each other. Extremist movements in gaza provoke israel knowing full well that they will hurt civilians in the response, try as hard as they do to avoid it, then put it on twitter, bbc news and the guardian where all the lefties get excited. Israel responds with full force arrogantly ignoring most of the muslim world who in turn help the extremists.
> 
> We were no different in ireland to our shame?
> 
> ...


If it was down to me id let Ireland do whatever the fcuk it wanted, same with Wales and Scotland!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

lukeee said:


> Thick as sh!t mate! Also told him the satelites going across the sky one night while we were fishing were ufo's!


Is he like 10 ? :lol: Next time tell him that all the CCTV cameras in he`s area is controlled by MI6 and that James bonds in town h34r:


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## kiwiguy (Aug 23, 2012)

lukeee said:


> If it was down to me id let Ireland do whatever the fcuk it wanted, same with Wales and Scotland!


oh dear. KEEP THE EMPIRE!

Actually, screw this recession. Re invade india, that'll boost our economy?


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

isreal isnt that tuff, lets face it, blatently armed and back by america this makes them tuff, you can call isreali commandoes tuff standing there with the latest weaponry direct from the states, i call them palestinians tuff, who stand upto the malitia with nothing but stick and stones, same with afghan really,iraq etc these guys are tuff as fcuk fightin a war with second rate armory and still been holding out for over ten years, isreals been waiting to make an attack but i think itd be a big mistake for them if they did,


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

if you give use our 6 counties back in ireland, we'll take back Jedward


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

kiwiguy said:


> oh dear. KEEP THE EMPIRE!
> 
> Actually, screw this recession. Re invade india, that'll boost our economy?


Too late, they invaded us :wink:


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

barsnack said:


> if you give use our 6 counties back in ireland, we'll take back Jedward


Mate if you wanna stitch yourselves up then be my guest :tongue:


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## kiwiguy (Aug 23, 2012)

lukeee said:


> Too late, they invaded us :wink:


quick then, whilst they are busy, INVADE THEM! aha.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

kiwiguy said:


> quick then, whilst they are busy, INVADE THEM! aha.


Ahh but they thought of this, they left Delhi belly :laugh:


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

barsnack said:


> if you give use our 6 counties back in ireland, we'll take back Jedward


take back jedward and well give you wales to


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## kiwiguy (Aug 23, 2012)

lukeee said:


> Ahh but they thought of this, they left Delhi belly :laugh:


Sneaky bloody johnny foreigner is! Sneaky...


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

zack amin said:


> take back jedward and well give you wales to


Who the hell would want Wales :rolleye:


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

banjodeano said:


> Who the hell would want Wales :rolleye:


they can join team taffy lol, i heard the sheep are tender this time of year, anything to get rid of jedward take louis walsh and you can have fcukin scotland


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## Deeboy (Dec 1, 2007)

A good place if you want a nice gaza car






And the hardship for supplies.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

zack amin said:


> take back jedward and well give you wales to


Oi i like the irish lol


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

kiwiguy said:


> Sneaky bloody johnny foreigner is! Sneaky...


Ah but they dont like it up em'.. no they dont sir!


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

im quater irish i like em to, but not jedward no not jedward:crying:


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

zack amin said:


> im quater irish i like em to, but not jedward no not jedward:crying:


Do you think we could make them believe louis spence is irish?


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

lukeee said:


> If it was down to me id let Ireland do whatever the fcuk it wanted, same with Wales and Scotland!


Ha if it was so easy, we do let countries become independent if they want to, India, Jamaica etc but lots of people in N.I want to be British so we won't give them away


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

ellisrimmer said:


> Ha if it was so easy, we do let countries become independent if they want to, India, Jamaica etc but lots of people in N.I want to be British so we won't give them away


but not as many that want to be united, anyway its our land, so shouldnt have taken it in the first place


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

ellisrimmer said:


> Ha if it was so easy, we do let countries become independent if they want to, India, Jamaica etc but lots of people in N.I want to be British so we won't give them away


I know mate, let them vote on it i say!


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## Machette (Oct 29, 2011)

zack amin said:


> isreal isnt that tuff, lets face it, blatently armed and back by america this makes them tuff, you can call isreali commandoes tuff standing there with the latest weaponry direct from the states, i call them palestinians tuff, who stand upto the malitia with nothing but stick and stones, same with afghan really,iraq etc these guys are tuff as fcuk fightin a war with second rate armory and still been holding out for over ten years, isreals been waiting to make an attack but i think itd be a big mistake for them if they did,


Very well said... Isrealis are fcukin annoying cnuts...

The most hated in the world; when i used to wrk at the airport thay had a seperate depature lounge with armed police offiers for all of there flights. Always expected to be attacked!!!


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

barsnack said:


> but not as many that want to be united, anyway its our land, so shouldnt have taken it in the first place


Thanks for the spuds though fella :wink:


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

Israel are not that strong, look what happened when they had a gorilla war in Lebanon?


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Imy79 said:


> Israel are not that strong, look what happened when they had a gorilla war in Lebanon?


Well you try fighting a silverback clever dick


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

They'll never be peace there. The Palestinians believe the Jews invaded and stole their land; the Jews believe the land was promised to them by God himself and that Israel should be a Jewish country. There is no middle way between those two views, the conflict will never end.

But if I had to choose where to live, in democratic, Westernised Israel or in Islamic, sharia-based Palestine, I'd chose Israel everytime!


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

lukeee said:


> Well you try fighting a silverback clever dick


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

cub said:


> They'll never be peace there. The Palestinians believe the Jews invaded and stole their land; the Jews believe the land was promised to them by God himself and that Israel should be a Jewish country. There is no middle way between those two views, the conflict will never end.
> 
> But if I had to choose where to live, in democratic, Westernised Israel or in Islamic, sharia-based Palestine, I'd chose Israel everytime!


Agree with your post well put. The only thing is Palestine is not sharia based, Hamas were elected via democratic elections.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

lukeee said:


> I know mate, let them vote on it i say!


Thats one thing we fought so hard for and is now in teh good friday agreement and in the not to long future, its going to happen.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561709_542733189073474_1109881615_n.jpg


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

IsraHELL should be bulldozed


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)




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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cult said:


> Thats one thing we fought so hard for and is now in teh good friday agreement and in the not to long future, its going to happen.


doubtful, GFA is aload of balls, recession problems have taken over now so that will be thre excuse for putting a vote of


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2012)

Just had a weird image in my head of borat commentating on this news aha


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

barsnack said:


> doubtful, GFA is aload of balls, recession problems have taken over now so that will be thre excuse for putting a vote of


Sinn fein have been calling for teh vote now and teh unionists are having none of it. Once the 1st vote happens weve to have a vote every 7 years for it again. Its there in black and white man in teh GFA so one day it will happen. I kno walot of us arent to happy with sinn fein these days but they have brought us on so much and to get something like this in the GFA was a master stroke IMO. Itll just be a matter of time now before we have it. Once we do get it, alot of people will be saying WTF have we done because down here, teh country is fcuked and run by puppets and signed our future away to teh IMF ffs so were proper ****ed now,lol


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

infernal0988 said:


> And THAT is a very very bad move as Israel have the most battle hardened troops that exist today. Specially their israeli commandos


Don't forget Mossad who will kill any fcuker who threaten their national security.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

PowerOutput said:


> IsraHELL should be bulldozed


And your point being?


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Nidge said:


> And your point being?


It shouldn't exist wtf did you think i meant? It's a gangster terrorist state.


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Not exactly surprising.

They will continue fighting till the end of time.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

Twisted said:


> Israel don't pussy foot around that's for sure. Bet they didn't debate that too much in parliament like we would do.


Correct, if a missile lands on their side they throw a thousand fcukers back.


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Correct, if a missile lands on their side they throw a thousand fcukers back.


As long as none of the 'chosen ones' get hurt eh?


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

PowerOutput said:


> It shouldn't exist wtf did you think i meant? It's a gangster terrorist state.


Don't be such a cnut, why shouldn't it exist? If you want to play that game Pakistan shouldn't exist, if it wasn't for England making Pakistan it'd still be India.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

PowerOutput said:


> As long as none of the 'chosen ones' get hurt eh?


Get a ****in grip you dime bar, you don't know half.


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

Whats the harm in typing "the"? just because your Irish doesn't mean you can go around raping the English language willy nilly.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

PowerOutput said:


> It shouldn't exist wtf did you think i meant? It's a gangster terrorist state.


You on about Palestine I take it?


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Don't be such a cnut, why shouldn't it exist? If you want to play that game Pakistan shouldn't exist, if it wasn't for England making Pakistan it'd still be India.


I think they are a rogue state who ignore International law and keep people in camps denying them there basic rights.


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## brandon91 (Jul 4, 2011)

let them have their holy war, there's no point trying to talk logic to the extremists.

as long as we don't get dragged into it by america I could care less, neither side will be happy till the other is eradicated


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cult said:


> Sinn fein have been calling for teh vote now and teh unionists are having none of it. Once the 1st vote happens weve to have a vote every 7 years for it again. Its there in black and white man in teh GFA so one day it will happen. I kno walot of us arent to happy with sinn fein these days but they have brought us on so much and to get something like this in the GFA was a master stroke IMO. Itll just be a matter of time now before we have it. Once we do get it, alot of people will be saying WTF have we done because down here, teh country is fcuked and run by puppets and signed our future away to teh IMF ffs so were proper ****ed now,lol


both south and north have to have seperate referendums and for a united ireland a majority vote is needed, so the unionists were witty here....wont happen as a result of the GFA


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

PowerOutput said:


> I think they are a rogue state who ignore International law and keep people in camps denying them there basic rights.


Nah they don't, they punish them who threaten them it's simple. We ought to take a leaf out of Mossads book and start killing those who threaten to kill us.


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Nidge said:


> You on about Palestine I take it?


Also they are an openly racist state- the most right wing state on the planet.


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Nah they don't, they punish them who threaten them it's simple. We ought to take a leaf out of Mossads book and start killing those who threaten to kill us.


Like who ? Enlighten me please


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

brandon91 said:


> let them have their holy war, there's no point trying to talk logic to the extremists.
> 
> as long as we don't get dragged into it by america I could care less, neither side will be happy till the other is eradicated


Its not a holy war thou, the media just make you believe it is. Its teh same here in ireland, people think its teh catholics all fighting teh protestents. Thats ballix, it was irish men fighting for theyre basic human rights and theyre own country back and there where men running around killing anyone from our side in retalation for what the IRA done here and on teh uk mainand. Teh religion war is as false as jordans tities.


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

PowerOutput said:


> Like who ? Enlighten me please


The Palastinians on the West Bank who are bank rolled by Iran.


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## brandon91 (Jul 4, 2011)

cult said:


> Its not a holy war thou, the media just make you believe it is. Its teh same here in ireland, people think its teh catholics all fighting teh protestents. Thats ballix, it was irish men fighting for theyre basic human rights and theyre own country back and there where men running around killing anyone from our side in retalation for what the IRA done here and on teh uk mainand. Teh religion war is as false as jordans tities.


let them fight over the land then, as long as this country minds its own business and deals with our own **** instead of getting involved in wars half way across the earth i'm happy


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Nidge said:


> Nah they don't, they punish them who threaten them it's simple. We ought to take a leaf out of Mossads book and start killing those who threaten to kill us.





Nidge said:


> The Palastinians on the West Bank who are bank rolled by Iran.


I mean who threatens us that we should be killing?


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

brandon91 said:


> let them fight over the land then, as long as this country minds its own business and deals with our own **** instead of getting involved in wars half way across the earth i'm happy


TBH with you, im ****ing sick to death with the world we live in. Im just watching a few clips of whats happening over there and it sickens teh fcuk out of me. All them ****ing killing , for what! . Its prob them israili ****s doing a false flag op anyway so they can go into gaza and take control because theres not much left of that county to take and once they get gaza, thats more or less it, they have a full israili state. BASTARDS!!


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

PowerOutput said:


> Also they are an openly racist state- the most right wing state on the planet.


Nah, Saudi Arabia are much more right-wing: an absolute monarchy based on religious (sharia) law with no separation of powers but the three branches of government all centred in the king. Beheadings, stonings and amputations are actually enshrined in Saudi law as punishments. If you are lax in your religion you'll get lashed as well. Saudi Arabia also had the lowest per centage of women in its workforce (5%) in the world. Their media is controlled by the government, trade unions are banned and there is no legal freedom of assembly, let alone electing your government!

Their government is like something from the middle ages. On nearly every aspect of government you can quote, Israel is more liberal and less authoritarian.


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

cub said:


> Nah, Saudi Arabia are much more right-wing: an absolute monarchy based on religious (sharia) law with no separation of powers but the three branches of government all centred in the king. Beheadings, stonings and amputations are actually enshrined in Saudi law as punishments. If you are lax in your religion you'll get lashed as well. Saudi Arabia also had the lowest per centage of women in its workforce (5%) in the world. Their media is controlled by the government, trade unions are banned and there is no legal freedom of assembly, let alone electing your government!
> 
> Their government is like something from the middle ages. On nearly every aspect of government you can quote, Israel is more liberal and less authoritarian.


Yeah and I suppose you could say they finance brainwashing campaigns as well round the world but they are a state who doesnt claim to be liberal.

The only state that claims to be liberal and less authoritian yet is the most openly aggressive and racist is Israel.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

barsnack said:


> both south and north have to have seperate referendums and for a united ireland a majority vote is needed, so the unionists were witty here....wont happen as a result of the GFA


The majoriety vote has to happen in teh north. Itll happen one day man. I remember Gerry A stating this years ago and theres been alot of talk about it recently about getting teh vote now. As i said before, once that 1st vote happens, theres to be a vote every 7 years. That was one of teh main things that sinn fein got into that peace agreement that if teh people of the north wants a united ireland through voting, then its to happen weither the unionists like it or not.


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

PowerOutput said:


> Yeah and I suppose you could say they finance brainwashing campaigns as well round the world but they are a state who doesnt claim to be liberal.
> 
> The only state that claims to be liberal and less authoritian yet is the most openly aggressive and racist is Israel.


I don't think it's racist, they discriminate based on their religion and they have black Jews who were granted citizenship under these "racist" pro-Judaism laws. I'd bet that Israel is much more multiracial than Palestine.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cult said:


> The majoriety vote has to happen in teh north. Itll happen one day man. I remember Gerry A stating this years ago and theres been alot of talk about it recently about getting teh vote now. As i said before, once that 1st vote happens, theres to be a vote every 7 years. That was one of teh main things that sinn fein got into that peace agreement that if teh people of the north wants a united ireland through voting, then its to happen weither the unionists like it or not.


my point was both votes have to vote in the majority for a united ireland, unionist community will never go for it...and i wouldn't listen to everything adams says


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

cub said:


> I don't think it's racist, they discriminate based on their religion and they have black Jews who were granted citizenship under these "racist" pro-Judaism laws. I'd bet that Israel is much more multiracial than Palestine.


Ok so religious bigotry that means you treat people as non-humans.

Palestine is a camp where people are denied basic human rights I doubt many people would want to go there to settle.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

barsnack said:


> my point was both votes have to vote in the majority for a united ireland, unionist community will never go for it...and i wouldn't listen to everything adams says


Ok, we'll agree to disagree but one thing we will agree on. See you at wembley for the CL final, going to be such a party


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

PowerOutput said:


> Ok so religious bigotry that means you treat people as non-humans.
> 
> Palestine is a camp where people are denied basic human rights I doubt many people would want to go there to settle.


They're denied basic human rights by their own government. I agree Israel doesn't want the Palestinians to have any rights, they just want to defeat them. But it's a mistake to believe that if the Palestinians had their own way they'd set up a democratic, secular society with freedom and equal human rights for all.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

cult said:


> Ok, we'll agree to disagree but one thing we will agree on. See you at wembley for the CL final, going to be such a party


going to the semi in jan, and think got tickets tonight for either killie on 8th or st mirren on the 15th...but will make the final too, so might run into ya


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

barsnack said:


> going to the semi in jan, and think got tickets tonight for either killie on 8th or st mirren on the 15th...but will make the final too, so might run into ya


You dudes aren't talking about who I think you are eh? surely not lol


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

cub said:


> They're denied basic human rights by their own government. I agree Israel doesn't want the Palestinians to have any rights, they just want to defeat them. But it's a mistake to believe that if the Palestinians had their own way they'd set up a democratic, secular society with freedom and equal human rights for all.


Agreed both sides are sick and if the shoe on other foot... who knows what would happen.

I cant help but feel for the Palestinians though it makes me quite bitter.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

PowerOutput said:


> You dudes aren't talking about who I think you are eh? surely not lol


you just never know man, football is a funny aul game alright. You just have to look at the 2 games against the best team in the world to see that. Sure its great to dream anyway,lol


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

I was involved in a bit of a thing for bringing relief to gaza strip a few years ago...whatever about the folks living in gaza and west bank themselves, with the bunch of misguided do-gooders and hippie g0bshytes that's trying to help them out they're as well to just clear off to syria or turkey and have done with it. I dont think america have the same love for israel as they used to....egypt certainly dont, but they (palestinians) definitely should just ask israel for the assistance to move out. I'm pretty sure at this stage the israelis would help get rid of them. This might seem a bit harsh or even a ridiculous comparison to people but its very like the situation in the U.K. awhile back with the travellers on that farm, whatever it was called. With palestinians as travellers and israelis as local people,cops and council. But instead of JCBs cops councillors and petitions there are bombs, mossad and israeli army etc. involved.


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

cult said:


> you just never know man, football is a funny aul game alright. You just have to look at the 2 games against the best team in the world to see that. Sure its great to dream anyway,lol


Ah well we'll be winning the 3rd division lol.

Think good game at Parkheed for you's but doubt get any further once in next stage. But who knows I'd never have thought that result possible...thought it was a bad dream :laugh:


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

dont worry PowerOutput, ill bring you some cheap cigarettes home from Europe for ya


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

PowerOutput said:


> Ah well we'll be winning the 3rd division lol.
> 
> Think good game at Parkheed for you's but doubt get any further once in next stage. But who knows I'd never have thought that result possible...thought it was a bad dream :laugh:


Thats 3 good results weve had in europe this season with wining away, holding out at teh new camp and beating barca at parkhead. anything is possible. Good luck getting out of them leagues because yous will need it. I dont expect to see yous for about 5 years, serious. Anyway, weve hijacked this thread so i think we'll leave it at that. HAIL-HAIL!!


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Anything is possible just as long as you's don't win anything :death:


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

mixerD1 said:


> I was involved in a bit of a thing for bringing relief to gaza strip a few years ago...whatever about the folks living in gaza and west bank themselves, with the bunch of misguided do-gooders and hippie g0bshytes that's trying to help them out they're as well to just clear off to syria or turkey and have done with it. I dont think america have the same love for israel as they used to....egypt certainly dont, but they (palestinians) definitely should just ask israel for the assistance to move out. I'm pretty sure at this stage the israelis would help get rid of them. This might seem a bit harsh or even a ridiculous comparison to people but its very like the situation in the U.K. awhile back with the travellers on that farm, whatever it was called. With palestinians as travellers and israelis as local people,cops and council. But instead of JCBs cops councillors and petitions there are bombs, mossad and israeli army etc. involved.


Man your not serious are you. Them people own that country and have been murdered of the land theyve lived on and you suggest they just get up and go. If thats the case them israeli ****s should just fcuk of back to where they came from and leave the palastineins alone.


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## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

MonstaMuscle said:


> Very well said... Isrealis are fcukin annoying cnuts...
> 
> The most hated in the world; when i used to wrk at the airport thay had a seperate depature lounge with armed police offiers for all of there flights. Always expected to be attacked!!!


exactly bunch of pussy's always ****ting them selfs lol

only reason they might seem tuff is because of their western allies supporting them

take away the alies then let see how tuff they are ?

infact if isreal is so tuff why dont say start with iran one on one ?


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## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

Fcuk the Zionist Illegal state of Israel. Zionist are the scum of the earth IMO :2guns:


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

X2 with cult, if you drive through prestwich the jewish communit of manchester, they have there own ambulances,community police/security and all the shops are jewish, why? Because if you wanted to live there or start a business as a none jew, they'd have to approve it first, same with people who want to travel to isreal if you have any other country stamped on your passport which thye don't approve you won't be flying there, many people require 2 passports, palestinians are still there fighting with there sticks and stones they'll never give up, talk all you want about mossad and tuff isrealis but as I already pointed out, them palestinians and iraqis afghans have been holding of armys and super powers of the worlds with raggy clothes and 20 year old weapons, if russia or china ever decide to back them, I can see americas and isreals testicles shrivveling faster then mine on a gram of testosterone


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

Tonk007 said:


> exactly bunch of pussy's always ****ting them selfs lol
> 
> only reason they might seem tuff is because of their western allies supporting them
> 
> ...


If there was a war between Israel and Iran, Iran would be nuked and reduced to a smoldering, radioactive wasteland.

Hey, maybe that's not such a bad idea!


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2012)

zack amin said:


> X2 with cult, if you drive through prestwich the jewish communit of manchester, they have there own ambulances,community police/security and all the shops are jewish, why? Because if you wanted to live there or start a business as a none jew, they'd have to approve it first, same with people who want to travel to isreal if you have any other country stamped on your passport which thye don't approve you won't be flying there, many people require 2 passports, palestinians are still there fighting with there sticks and stones they'll never give up, talk all you want about mossad and tuff isrealis but as I already pointed out, them palestinians and iraqis afghans have been holding of armys and super powers of the worlds with raggy clothes and 20 year old weapons, if russia or china ever decide to back them, I can see americas and isreals testicles shrivveling faster then mine on a gram of testosterone


lol what do you mean if Russia or China backed them ? Who do you think supplies 99% of their weapons now ? Russia. The middle east keeps the Russian arms traders in business. Ironically, the british arms trade does alright there too, we sold a lot of weapons to Saudi Arabia once, then when they were under threat from Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, they wanted us to come and fight and use our guns, they didn't want theirs to get dirty !!!

China wouldn't get involved with this. Even they aren't that stupid.

It's going to get ugly in that area and unfortunately there's not a thing anyone can say to stop it.


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## Gym n juice (Nov 20, 2010)

You can tell this is a meathead..... Sorry wannabe meathead forum, by the number of uneducated replies to this thread.

Israel have illegally occupied gaza and the West Bank for over 35 years.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

zack amin said:


> them palestinians and iraqis afghans have been holding of armys and super powers of the worlds with raggy clothes and 20 year old weapons, if russia or china ever decide to back them, I can see americas and isreals testicles shrivveling faster then mine on a gram of testosterone


Nope. The *only* reason the ****ers haven't been wiped out is because on this side, we try to minimise casualties. Take Afghan as an example. That **** could be cleaned up but we're not allowed to fart in the direction of the locals for fear of hurting their feelings.

Get shot at and you've got a dozen rules to follow before you can fire back. Want an air-strike? By the time it's been given the go-ahead and goner through the red tape do that we don't bomb the innocent darlings, they've f*cked off.

The *only* reason they're still standing is because we always fight the f*ckers after we've tied one hand behind our back. If we switched on, took the gloves off and got real, we'd sort their sh*t out in a day. The problem with that is that our ears would bleed from all the whining the liberals over here would do afterwards.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

OldManRiver said:


> lol what do you mean if Russia or China backed them ? Who do you think supplies 99% of their weapons now ? Russia. The middle east keeps the Russian arms traders in business. Ironically, the british arms trade does alright there too, we sold a lot of weapons to Saudi Arabia once, then when they were under threat from Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, they wanted us to come and fight and use our guns, they didn't want theirs to get dirty !!!
> 
> China wouldn't get involved with this. Even they aren't that stupid.
> 
> It's going to get ugly in that area and unfortunately there's not a thing anyone can say to stop it.


yeah your right, but there old fashion weapons man, theres no new technology involved like the likes of isreal and america are using,like i said sticks and stones have defended the middle east for over ten years plus, if china backed them i dont think it would be a stupid manouver on there behalf, i think it would definanetly make them think twice, everyone double deals arms under the table, arab army isnt that tuff, aint excactly the french foreign legion lol, but i do agree, things are going to get very ugly indeed


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## RockyD (Oct 8, 2012)

The ignorance re Israel is strong, we have been told by our media that both sides are as bad as each other and Hamas are terrorists etc. But the fact is if it wasn't for it's relationship with the US, Israel would be considered a rogue state.

International law decrees that Israel withdraw from Palestine and restores pre 1967 boundaries yet instead they continue to claim more of Palestine daily. They have been condemned on countless occasions by the UN for refusing to withdraw from occupied land, for continuing to build settlements on occupied land and for general abuses and breaches of human rights in their treatment of Palestinians. They have been condemned by the UN more times than any other nation on the planet.

We are told by the media that those that fight the government in Syria and Libya are "rebels" they are good guys, yet we are told that Hamas are terrorists for retaliating woith force to a foreign state that is systematically taking over their country.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Nope. The *only* reason the ****ers haven't been wiped out is because on this side, we try to minimise casualties. Take Afghan as an example. That **** could be cleaned up but we're not allowed to fart in the direction of the locals for fear of hurting their feelings.
> 
> Get shot at and you've got a dozen rules to follow before you can fire back. Want an air-strike? By the time it's been given the go-ahead and goner through the red tape do that we don't bomb the innocent darlings, they've f*cked off.
> 
> The *only* reason they're still standing is because we always fight the f*ckers after we've tied one hand behind our back. If we switched on, took the gloves off and got real, we'd sort their sh*t out in a day. The problem with that is that our ears would bleed from all the whining the liberals over here would do afterwards.


dont be daft, hundreds of people are killed there on a daily basis from air strikes drone attacks, a mean alot of british soldiers are good lads dont get me wrong, but dont be daft, weve been in the middle east for over 10 years plus, giving it all we got, but end of the day there tuff as fcuk, and aint letting nothing pass, the only way america could wipe it out, is by nuclear attack or mass air bombings killing thousands of civvi's, this war isnt going to be won, because they fight with heart


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## mc187 (Dec 30, 2007)

The Cheese said:


> Nope. The *only* reason the ****ers haven't been wiped out is because on this side, we try to minimise casualties. Take Afghan as an example. That **** could be cleaned up but we're not allowed to fart in the direction of the locals for fear of hurting their feelings.
> 
> Get shot at and you've got a dozen rules to follow before you can fire back. Want an air-strike? By the time it's been given the go-ahead and goner through the red tape do that we don't bomb the innocent darlings, they've f*cked off.
> 
> The *only* reason they're still standing is because we always fight the f*ckers after we've tied one hand behind our back. If we switched on, took the gloves off and got real, we'd sort their sh*t out in a day. The problem with that is that our ears would bleed from all the whining the liberals over here would do afterwards.


errrm what about the drone attacks that wipe out whole villages? they go after one target and they wipe out a whole village...thats the types of warfare that is used. the problem has always been that area/terrain in afganistan means that it is easy for them to defend and hard for foreign armys to penetrate.


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## mc187 (Dec 30, 2007)

zack amin said:


> dont be daft, hundreds of people are killed there on a daily basis from air strikes drone attacks, a mean alot of british soldiers are good lads dont get me wrong, but dont be daft, weve been in the middle east for over 10 years plus, giving it all we got, but end of the day there tuff as fcuk, and aint letting nothing pass, the only way america could wipe it out, is by nuclear attack or mass air bombings killing thousands of civvi's, this war isnt going to be won, because they fight with heart


im with you on this issue mate - your posts make sense and describe the true situation. for right or wrong its sticks and stones vs missiles


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

zack amin said:


> dont be daft, hundreds of people are killed there on a daily basis from air strikes drone attacks


I'm not saying that there aren't deaths. But the vast majority of those are mistakes. We try to avoid innocents.

Ask a squaddie what he thinks of their fighting skills. The Iraqis, they've got no time for. The Afghans, they'll say they've got the balls but don't have a clue.

Iraq went on the way it did because we pussy footed the **** around. Afghan is the same - they'll nick some guy and 10 minutes later the local chief will release him so he can carry on fighting.

Ask a squaddie what he thinks of it over there. He'll tell you that he's fighting with one hand behind his back.


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## mc187 (Dec 30, 2007)

The Cheese said:


> I'm not saying that there aren't deaths. But the vast majority of those are mistakes. We try to avoid innocents.
> 
> Ask a squaddie what he thinks of their fighting skills. The Iraqis, they've got no time for. The Afghans, they'll say they've got the balls but don't have a clue.
> 
> ...


they shouldnt even be out there in my opinion - the british and american government are playing with the lives of our soldiers. they are not there on a freedom missions.


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

What I mixed up thread. If you speed-read it, it seems that the proposal is to get the Chinese to bulldoze Palestine to make way for a football pitch for an old firm game. At full time, the IRA will claim the Gaza Strip and duly be nuked by Iranian drones. Is that about it?


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> I'm not saying that there aren't deaths. But the vast majority of those are mistakes. We try to avoid innocents.
> 
> Ask a squaddie what he thinks of their fighting skills. The Iraqis, they've got no time for. The Afghans, they'll say they've got the balls but don't have a clue.
> 
> ...


lol ask a squaddie, let me tell you something bro my unkle was over there with the british army the first 6months it kicked off,in iraq, i tell you what he didnt think he had 1 had tied behind his back, and heres another fact for you my brothers a fussilier, on training ready to be deployed '13 , i know plenty of squaddies, they have high expectations untill they are there, exactly my point tho, they dont have a clue but are still defending there country to the brink, america never pussy foots about, they love this ****, iraq went the way it did, because you cant win in another mans back garden, they fight with heart, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter nd all that, afgan is going the same becuase as stated these guys are tuff as fcuk, nothing to do with the our army holding back, given the technology we have you really think were pussy footing around? cmon man be real, were trying our best, its not good enough


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

its disgusting how the world does nothing to help palistine... there lands have been robbed constantly for 50 plus years... israel has jets.. bombers.. top trained military, latest tech weaponery and is even rumored to be a nulcear power. people complain about how a few arab nations send funds to palistine... but its just a few pence compared to the millons and millions that is sent to israel from (i wont say jews cause ill just be called anti-semitic) people around the world who beleive in erasing palistine completely. even when american politicians are running for certain offices as soon as they mention anything about pro isreal politics they get sent money from iseral..... an irish reporter kicks up about how israel acts and gets branded as anti-Semitic....but no ever seems to say anything about the ethnic cleansing that isreal has been commiting for 3/4 of a century. shame on the world for standing by...


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

RockyD said:


> The ignorance re Israel is strong, we have been told by our media that both sides are as bad as each other and Hamas are terrorists etc. But the fact is if it wasn't for it's relationship with the US, Israel would be considered a rogue state.
> 
> International law decrees that Israel withdraw from Palestine and restores pre 1947 boundaries yet instead they continue to claim more of Palestine daily. They have been condemned on countless occasions by the UN for refusing to withdraw from occupied land, for continuing to build settlements on occupied land and for general abuses and breaches of human rights in their treatment of Palestinians. They have been condemned by the UN more times than any other nation on the planet.
> 
> *We are told by the media that those that fight the government in Syria and Libya are "rebels" they are good guys, yet we are told that Hamas are terrorists for retaliating woith force to a foreign state that is systematically taking over their country*.


Good post.

When Israel were breaking all these regulations and treaties, nothing was said, was getting brushed under the carpet.

What I really cannot udnerstand also is, the media tells us the US\UK\EU everyone else wants a democratic elected goverment, freedom to people etc in these countries. Hamas, get voted in by decoractic elections but sorry we cannot sit with them on the negotiation table. In other words, they need to be democractially elected and approved by the powers to be, where is th elogic in that?

I'm not saying Hamas are all innocent, the point being you have set of rules for one and different for others that dont suit.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

griffo13 said:


> its disgusting how the world does nothing to help palistine... there lands have been robbed constantly for 50 plus years... israel has jets.. bombers.. top trained military, latest tech weaponery and is even rumored to be a nulcear power. people complain about how a few arab nations send funds to palistine... but its just a few pence compared to the millons and millions that is sent to israel from (i wont say jews cause ill just be called anti-semitic) people around the world who beleive in erasing palistine completely. even when american politicians are running for certain offices as soon as they mention anything about pro isreal politics they get sent money from iseral..... an irish reporter kicks up about how israel acts and gets branded as anti-Semitic....but no ever seems to say anything about the ethnic cleansing that isreal has been commiting for 3/4 of a century. shame on the world for standing by...


i agree.

ok, israel and the jewish race have had a hard time but for them to persecute others as they have been persecuted is extremely hypocritical and i cant believe that the world turns a blind eye and lets them get away with it.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

zack amin said:


> lol ask a squaddie, let me tell you something bro my unkle was over there with the british army the first 6months it kicked off,in iraq, i tell you what he didnt think he had 1 had tied behind his back, and heres another fact for you my brothers a fussilier, on training ready to be deployed '13


I live in a naval town and know loads and loads of Marines. They tell me the opposite.

I'll just have to disagree with you on that one and move on, mate.

And yes. Of course we're holding back. Look at it this way:

Before we came along, those people were being ruled by force. The people using that force didn't have the same techonology as we do. So how did they do it? Answer, they didn't give a f*ck. They ruled by way of iron fist. The very thing we avoid using.


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## mc187 (Dec 30, 2007)

Imy79 said:


> Good post.
> 
> When Israel were breaking all these regulations and treaties, nothing was said, was getting brushed under the carpet.
> 
> ...


Its double standards and its the Zionist link between America and Israel. Lets not confuse ordinary Jewish folk with the Zionists.


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

a.notherguy said:


> i agree.
> 
> ok, israel and the jewish race have had a hard time but for them to persecute others as they have been persecuted is extremely hypocritical and i cant believe that the world turns a blind eye and lets them get away with it.


Thsi will kep happening, you got to remember, who funds these presidents in the US, you will never see a bad word against Israel from the US. They are not terrorists, "they have the right to defend their land", as said by Obama.


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

mc187 said:


> Its double standards and its the Zionist link between America and Israel. Lets not confuse ordinary Jewish folk with the Zionists.


A very good point, a massive difference.


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## mc187 (Dec 30, 2007)

The Cheese said:


> I live in a naval town and know loads and loads of Marines. They tell me the opposite.
> 
> I'll just have to disagree with you on that one and move on, mate.
> 
> ...


dude its a war - when you see foreign people in your town you will defend it. yes they were rule by force but they ruled by thier own people. let them get on with it. ask yourself this...if you was serving over in afganistan and some random afgan bloke came up to you and asked why are you here in my village or town....what would you reply? i would struggle to find a reply to that and that why i feel for the troops (how can they stay motivated for so long and who knows what this is doing to their mental state of mind)


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> I live in a naval town and know loads and loads of Marines. They tell me the opposite.
> 
> I'll just have to disagree with you on that one and move on, mate.
> 
> ...


agree to disagree fair enough, only point i can make, is america,uk,isreal are fighting with the latest in airborne technology, weaponry,bullet proof vests etc etc million pound tanks, billion pound jets, afghan iraq palestine are fighting with 20 year old ak-47s some crappy grenade launchers, so end of the day whos fighting with there hands behind there back.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Imy79 said:


> Thsi will kep happening, you got to remember, who funds these presidents in the US, you will never see a bad word against Israel from the US. They are not terrorists, "they have the right to defend their land", as said by Obama.


yep, and to be fair.. they do have the right to defend their land. unfortunately tho historically it is both their land and someone elses land. as long as the world lets them get away with land grabs then the conflict over who's land they are defending will always go on

its just a viscous cirlce!


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Imy79 said:


> When Israel were breaking all these regulations and treaties, nothing was said, was getting brushed under the carpet.


More UN Resolutions have been put against Israel than any other nation. This sh*t that's started now, started why? The Israelis get attacked so they respond. That first thing is the sort of thing that gets brushed under the carpet.



> What I really cannot udnerstand also is, the media tells us the US\UK\EU everyone else wants a democratic elected goverment, freedom to people etc in these countries. Hamas, get voted in by decoractic elections but sorry we cannot sit with them on the negotiation table. In other words, they need to be democractially elected and approved by the powers to be, where is th elogic in that?


Would you sit down with a government whose stated aim is your destruction? Which has no desire to negotiate? Which launches thousands upon thousands of rockets upon you on a daily basis. Democratic or not, what's the point? And as for democratic - where are the elections?

By the way: I've no time for zionist bull**** of orthodox jews. I see them as bad as or worse than the Islamic fundamentalists. I'm just pointing out the facts.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

@mikep81 always has a good view on given subjects, aint seen him in a while tho, drop in brother


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

mc187 said:


> dude its a war - when you see foreign people in your town you will defend it. yes they were rule by force but they ruled by thier own people.


No. They're tribal. There's no nation state. No patriotism for a country. Everyone who's not from your village is "foreign", mate. Taliban govt. weren't locals.

Even if they were able to say "We're all from the same country", they've then got these huge divides between them created by religion. Take the Shia/Sunni civil war stuff in Iraq as an example.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

From what my mates in army say the way they fight is split. Mate in paras seemed to have free reign of the death/destruction they caused where as other in a more standard squad had their hands tied with what they can and cant do :/


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> No. They're tribal. There's no nation state. No patriotism for a country. Everyone who's not from your village is "foreign", mate. Taliban govt. weren't locals.
> 
> Even if they were able to say "We're all from the same country", they've then got these huge divides between them created by religion. Take the Shia/Sunni civil war stuff in Iraq as an example.


and whats the difference here in the uk, torys,labour,liberal, south london,north london, east london, manchester, south,north, birmingham wallsall, the uk is in a civil war, people are stabbed and killed everyday, but were obviously to coultured to call it a civil war.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

cult said:


> Man your not serious are you. Them people own that country and have been murdered of the land theyve lived on and you suggest they just get up and go. If thats the case them israeli ****s should just fcuk of back to where they came from and leave the palastineins alone.


I know what your saying Cult..but theyre in a hopeless condition over there and the people out to save them are a bunch of idiots..literally the best thing they could do is f**k off cos theyll die over there otherwise..at this stage I dont even know how theyre getting water. If they dont move theyll just die off slowly there and I dont see anyone stepping in to help them...the turks are helping a bit but they dont have a lot of credibility cos of their own human rights violations down the years. I was impressed to see the amount of people in front of the israeli embassy yesterday but Ive seen all that before..it looks good but doesnt amount to ****. Seriously, theyre just being stubborn and should up sticks cos the israelis aint goin anywhere. Other nations are fed up givig them money and it amounting to nothing so at this stage the best thing would be to ask for israel to help them move to turkey or syria.


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## Mish (May 1, 2011)

Something that has been proven time and time again is that it is neigh on impossible for a conventional army to successfully fight a guerrilla war. If Israel invade Gaza then the Palestinions will go to ground and Israel will once again find themselves on the receiving end of hit and run tactics.

Israel can use all the technology at their disposal, but if you can't identify your enemy then you can't kill them

As has been said the Afghans held off the might of the Soviets for 10 years. I will go as far to say as they actually defeated the Russians


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## Mish (May 1, 2011)

I'm on my phone and can't give this thread as much as I want. This is a subject I have a great interest in.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

zack amin said:



> X2 with cult, if you drive through prestwich the jewish communit of manchester, they have there own ambulances,community police/security and all the shops are jewish, why? Because if you wanted to live there or start a business as a none jew, they'd have to approve it first, same with people who want to travel to isreal if you have any other country stamped on your passport which thye don't approve you won't be flying there, many people require 2 passports, palestinians are still there fighting with there sticks and stones they'll never give up, talk all you want about mossad and tuff isrealis but as I already pointed out, them palestinians and iraqis afghans have been holding of armys and super powers of the worlds with raggy clothes and 20 year old weapons, if russia or china ever decide to back them, I can see americas and isreals testicles shrivveling faster then mine on a gram of testosterone


I admire the moxie of these people as much as anyone Zack but the palestinians wont win this one...theyre boxed in to an area a smaller than a burough of London struggling against a huge adversary...the only reason theyre not blown to shyt is cos israel would be up for international war crimes...other than that no-one cares about them..fighting spirit doesnt amount to anything on this one. Its the perfect stalemate from a political point of view. The whole Russia/China days are over mate..thats something USA isnt worried about anymore and one of the reasons their ties arent as strong with israel anymore. In fact, ties between USA and China have never been better.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

OldManRiver said:


> lol what do you mean if Russia or China backed them ? Who do you think supplies 99% of their weapons now ? Russia. The middle east keeps the Russian arms traders in business. Ironically, the british arms trade does alright there too, we sold a lot of weapons to Saudi Arabia once, then when they were under threat from Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, they wanted us to come and fight and use our guns, they didn't want theirs to get dirty !!!
> 
> China wouldn't get involved with this. Even they aren't that stupid.
> 
> It's going to get ugly in that area and unfortunately there's not a thing anyone can say to stop it.


Yer right up to a point, its not going to get ugly. The israelis will just let the palestinians slowly die off..therell be no war, no heroes, no glorious war. Itll just be a slow lingering death thatll be lamented about 20 yrs after its happened...all these peace marches and so on...when have they ever achieved anything...never..they just make the participants feel better that theyve ''done something'' or ''contributed''.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Gym n juice said:


> You can tell this is a meathead..... Sorry wannabe meathead forum, by the number of uneducated replies to this thread.
> 
> Israel have illegally occupied gaza and the West Bank for over 35 years.


Im all for Gaza and West Bank, but read up a bit...yer history is way off the mark there mate.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> I dont see anyone stepping in to help them...


The Arabs and other Muslims won't help them because they don't like the Palestinians either.

We hear about how Israel "occupies" Palestinian land but what's kept secret is that 75% of Palestinian land is actually occupied by Arab countries like Jordan. Not only occupied, but they've actually annexed it. Israel only sits on a quarter of it.

They're hardly going to want a powerful Palestinian state. The f*ckers might ask for their land back.


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Don't even get me started on this thread.

Have an aunt who lived in Beit Lahia and who is in Spain now and the first hand stuff she told me makes me think how the fcuk is something like this still happening??? It's almost an Arab holocaust.

They have illegally invaded a country and gradually spreaded out taking parts of neighbouring countries? You tell me who would be allowed to do that now? They was welcomed in from the time of the nazis and this is the thanks we get?!

Many peace workers have been killed there and still nothing has happened, that UN female worker who got run over by a bull dozer, that camera crew holding a White flag were shot? 13 UN workers have died in Jenin alone, British peace keeper from Manchester escorting kids to a safer area wearing the fluresent top was snipered down - yet these killings go on.

As mentioned world needs to wake up, all we hear is a suicide bomber killings etc, a female doctor there blew herself up in Israel, wrong - yes, BUT think, what would this person seen, been through, witnessed for an educated person to do this?? It's almost a silent cry for help.

Yet we get bombarded by shows like I'm a celeb, big brother, x factor just to keep our minds of with the important factors inthe world.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

The Cheese said:


> The Arabs and other Muslims won't help them because they don't like the Palestinians either.
> 
> We hear about how Israel "occupies" Palestinian land but what's kept secret is that 75% of Palestinian land is actually occupied by Arab countries like Jordan. Not only occupied, but they've actually annexed it. Israel only sits on a quarter of it.
> 
> They're hardly going to want a powerful Palestinian state. The f*ckers might ask for their land back.


I know all about it.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

geeby112 said:


> Don't even get me started on this thread.
> 
> Have an aunt who lived in Beit Lahia and who is in Spain now and the first hand stuff she told me makes me think how the fcuk is something like this still happening??? It's almost an Arab holocaust.
> 
> ...


Rachel Corrie and she was a member of International Solidarity Movement, not UN. Not the same thing, honestly, I know members of ISM and theyre by and large do-gooder idiots looking for attention and big jobs with the UN (all for themselves) who should absolutely not be there, but when the shyt hits the fan they havent the brains to back down and save themselves.

Their hearts are in the right place but theyre not even nuts and bolts in the big scheme, and the israelis will kill them at the drop of a hat..yes, even a lowly dozer driver will do that.


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## Dangerous20 (May 20, 2012)

You know you're on ukm too much when this is the place you hear about news stories first...


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

mixerD1 said:


> Rachel Corrie and she was a member of International Solidarity Movement, not UN. Not the same thing, honestly, I know members of ISM and theyre by and large do-gooder idiots looking for attention and big jobs with the UN (all for themselves) who should absolutely not be there, but when the shyt hits the fan they havent the brains to back down and save themselves.
> 
> Their hearts are in the right place but theyre not even nuts and bolts in the big scheme, and the israelis will kill them at the drop of a hat..yes, even a lowly dozer driver will do that.


My point was even non palestians are killed. Can you imagine the up roar if that wad to happen in a different country.

I respect your posts ad you've been there first hand and experienced it.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Mish said:


> Something that has been proven time and time again is that it is neigh on impossible for a conventional army to successfully fight a guerrilla war. If Israel invade Gaza then the Palestinions will go to ground and Israel will once again find themselves on the receiving end of hit and run tactics.
> 
> Israel can use all the technology at their disposal, but if you can't identify your enemy then you can't kill them
> 
> As has been said the Afghans held off the might of the Soviets for 10 years. I will go as far to say as they actually defeated the Russians


Ché Guevarra thought that too. The palestinians are already on the ground...in a camp that israel has total control of and have totally surrounded. Its not a guerrila war, its not even skirmishes. It's a few boys in a camp being handed in RPG's through tunnels every now and again..letting off one or two then being shot down 10-1 in return. If the israelis ever want to finish it up, it'll take about 10 or 15 mins of air bombing. They can't afford to tho, because then theyll be as bad as the nazis that put them there. This subject is a bit more complex than most people are aware of and actually goes back as far as WW2...most of the people responsible for this whole thing are dead, and believe it or not a lot of UK politicians are at the heart of it.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Dangerous20 said:


> You know you're on ukm too much when this is the place you hear about news stories first...


The Rachel Corrie thing happened in 2003.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

wasnt there a louie threrous documentary on this where every day a load of palestinians thrown stones as the israeli army, who respond with bullets? both sides are as bad as each other but one is armed to the teeth!


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## shieldsy (Jan 22, 2010)

I fully suport israel, If you fire rockets at a country then don't expect them to sit back and let you do it.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

shieldsy said:


> I fully suport israel, If you fire rockets at a country then don't expect them to sit back and let you do it.


Do you not watch the news or read a news paper ?

Israel fired a missile first killing one military target and 3 civilians including children!

Ok let me dumb down for you so you mite understand the situation buddy, How would you feel if i come on your land and claim it by force and if you disagree i would murder your friends and family ? What would you do if you can not stand up to there military mite and the backing off world super powers?

Yes there are Muslims out there that do things the wrong way and yes they are primitive people that are Muslims that still believe that honer killing is still ok but you can not beat every one with the same stick


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## RascaL18 (Nov 13, 2008)

zack amin said:


> isreal isnt that tuff, lets face it, blatently armed and back by america this makes them tuff, you can call isreali commandoes tuff standing there with the latest weaponry direct from the states, i call them palestinians tuff, who stand upto the malitia with nothing but stick and stones, same with afghan really,iraq etc these guys are tuff as fcuk fightin a war with second rate armory and still been holding out for over ten years, isreals been waiting to make an attack but i think itd be a big mistake for them if they did,


 how is sending suicide bombers into civilians tough? How is afghan hiding IEDs in the ground tough? If afghan people was tough that wouldn't be done! The poor soldiers who are over there losing limbs because they are stuck in a contract with this countries army losing limbs due to these 'tough' people hiding bombs and blowing the **** out of them? Training them up to have their own police force and a army to get by and move on up in the world and turking the guns on the people they train? This is tough? NO! Its cowardly! Amca and england have bombs that would destroy the place and leave nothing but craters if they really wanted to be tough. But where would that leave them? They are there for oil no doubt about it but they are also there to help them! Same **** that's goin on in isreal! How many suicide bombs and **** have they had go off in there area and bombs and ****? That's not tough! You back a dog in a corner and it will bite!


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

i'm nearly 50 and from being a teenager into my early 20s I was pro-Palestinian ...

Then Hamas won an election ...

israel let hamas know that if they cowardly hide behind walls and children firing missiles at civilian settlements, israel will retaliate.

they've been told ...

Abbas' crowd on the West Bank are seeking a peaceful solution and are left in peace to seek peace.

Hamas' charter decrees the inhiliation of the state of Israel and act accordingly.

To go Old Testament ....

Reap what you sow.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

reza85 said:


> Do you not watch the news or read a news paper ?
> 
> Israel fired a missile first killing one military target and 3 civilians including children!
> 
> ...


No mate, i believe they have been throwing over rockets and mortars into Israel on an almost daily basis before they blew up the car!


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

any documentary you watch bout the place or even look at casuality figures, you'll see israel are more aggressive...not sure what you mean by 'cowardly' hiding behind walls, should they stand out in the open for israel tanks to ppick them off...isn't drone attacks / air attacks etc by israel / usa / british forces not cowardly then too


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

if we go to old testament then the whole thing is a joke, id be happy for them to wipe each other off the face of the planet


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

spike said:


> i'm nearly 50 and from being a teenager into my early 20s I was pro-Palestinian ...
> 
> Then Hamas won an election ...
> 
> ...


You know yer stuff sir....Hamas...a shower of greedy, power hungry money grabbers who will sacrifice innocents for their own outdated cause/beliefs. Unfortunately it's their (Hamas) message that the outside world are getting and not the truth.


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

barsnack said:


> any documentary you watch bout the place or even look at casuality figures, you'll see israel are more aggressive...not sure what you mean by 'cowardly' hiding behind walls, should they stand out in the open for israel tanks to ppick them off...isn't drone attacks / air attacks etc by israel / usa / british forces not cowardly then too


Oops!

Sorry I was so harsh on you earlier.

I had no idea you didn't know what the f*ck has been going on over there.

And judging from your pm to me, that goes as far back as 1947.


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## shieldsy (Jan 22, 2010)

reza85 said:


> Do you not watch the news or read a news paper ?
> 
> Israel fired a missile first killing one military target and 3 civilians including children!
> 
> ...


Lol if u think israel fired first ,


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

spike said:


> oh.
> 
> Oh. Sorry I was so harsh on you earlier.
> 
> ...


erm my pm wasn't aggressive in any way, you as ignorant with your replies to everyone


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

This is a futile subject to argue on. Read up on Israelites and the palestinians. Read up on the segregation of the Jewish religion. Read up on the history of the muslim religion and how it came about then the only conclusion I could come up with is let them waste each other instead of pussy footing around


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## Southern Karate Guy (Feb 27, 2014)

Anyone who was alive when Israel was created may have a valid point but all this Zionist crap is a joke , RELIGION = A bunch of Male idiots writing there own book Koran Bible whatever and saying just what they want... So many people show a really scary lack of comprehension by many comments ..

Lets see burn a Koran...Lets riot and kill people ...really religion of peace my ass

Christians lets ban gays but allow kiddie fiddlers ...

Im sure the zealots will flock to flame this one


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## Southern Karate Guy (Feb 27, 2014)

Oh and the same for the Irish , scots and welsh grow up its all in the past its only the rich gits who had anything to do with all that crap and us common folk got left with it. blowing up women and children in the name of peace...no wonder all the stupid Irish jokes flow...


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

barsnack said:


> erm my pm wasn't aggressive in any way, you as ignorant with your replies to everyone


I never suggested it was aggressive ...

It was merely misinformed ...

And if my reply was indeed ignorant, it probably only happened because I was subconsciously concerned and wanted to be sure you'd understand.

Does this mean you're going to go and do that sulking thing again?


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

spike said:


> I never suggested it was aggressive ...
> 
> It was merely misinformed ...
> 
> ...


i dont do the sulky thing and it wasn't misinformed, as i don't have time to write an assignment on the subject as some of us work for a living and don't have time


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

spike said:


> i'm nearly 50 and from being a teenager into my early 20s I was pro-Palestinian ...
> 
> Then Hamas won an election ...
> 
> ...


This ^^

I don't really pay much attention to the situation over there, it's svch a fvcked up one that it's difficult to keep track, but there is something that I think the people who are comparing Hamas to the freedom fighters of Libya and Syria are missing. The freedom fighters of Libya and Syria are completely different, they don't fire indiscriminate rockets onto civilian targets. And that's a big difference. Hamas constantly launch rockets at civilian targets, and from what I understand it's generally something like the Chinese 107mm rocket launched from a make shift platform, just as the insurgency in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan use. Which is often just a ramp made out of dirt or a few sheets of metal guttering and crudely aimed in the general direction of their intended target. Not accurate at all. And THAT is the difference between freedom fighters and Hamas, in my opinion anyway. Also from what I've seen, which isn't much to be honest, is Israel launch retaliatory attacks. I personally can't think of them launching an attack into Palestine that wasn't in response to receiving some sort of attack first (I could be wrong obviously, and I'm not talking about whatever happens at the border here). The way I see it is that if Hamas just left Israel alone, then nothing would happen. But Israel, in my opinion, are justified in retaliating to this incident. You can't just randomly rocket attack public cities and not expect it!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

amigamike said:


> Oh and the same for the Irish , scots and welsh grow up its all in the past its only the rich gits who had anything to do with all that crap and us common folk got left with it. blowing up women and children in the name of peace...no wonder all the stupid Irish jokes flow...


I cant even take a wild guess at what your point is between this and your previous post. What are you on about?


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

zack amin said:


> lol ask a squaddie, let me tell you something bro my unkle was over there with the british army the first 6months it kicked off,in iraq, i tell you what he didnt think he had 1 had tied behind his back, and heres another fact for you my brothers a fussilier, on training ready to be deployed '13 , i know plenty of squaddies, they have high expectations untill they are there, exactly my point tho, they dont have a clue but are still defending there country to the brink, america never pussy foots about, they love this ****, iraq went the way it did, because you cant win in another mans back garden, they fight with heart, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter nd all that, afgan is going the same becuase as stated these guys are tuff as fcuk, nothing to do with the our army holding back, given the technology we have you really think were pussy footing around? cmon man be real, were trying our best, its not good enough


The invasion of Iraq was a war time operation. Completely different rules of engagement to what is going on in Afghanistan now. While I was in Afghanistan in 2007 we also operated under war time rules of engagement which basically means you can engage anyone who assisting your enemy. The invasion of Iraq was a fight against a uniformed enemy so your uncle wouldn't have had his hands tied at all. After combat operations in Iraq were declared over (approximately 6 months after the invasion started) then we moved to what is called peace support operations which carry a different set of rules of engagement that were very restrictive. I know a soldier who was put through a murder investigation because he shot an Insurgent carrying weapons between firing positions. The reason being that we could only engage at the time if out target was basically endangering human life and because this guy had stopped firing at us and was running away from us (still with his weapon) it wasn't clear enough if he was retreating (can't shoot him) or moving firing positions (can shoot him). There have been multiple incidents out there were units have come across insurgents plantings roadside bombs and instead of engaging them, they have to try and arrest them which more often than not resulted in them getting away. The insurgency of Iraq was not tough at all. Hard to beat but they weren't tough, and most weren't even from Iraq. They hid behind civilians who to begin with were happy to have the coalition there. It was only when these so called "freedom fighters" started blowing people up and accidents started happening that the people of Iraq didn't want us there. But guess what, even now that there is a minimal western military out there, there is still weekly suicide bombings killing thousands of civilians, which say's a lot for these so called freedom fighters I think!

Afghan is completely different to Iraq. The people of Afghan don't want to live under Taliban rule, and those that do are those that enforce their ridiculous laws. As I said when I was in Afghan 2007 we had wartime ROE, now they have peace time ROE which is very, very restrictive. You can't just engage targets without getting authorisation. You can't call in air strikes without performing a certain amount of checks, which as some one mentioned normally meant that by the time it comes, the Talibs have gone. The reason it's like this now is that the population of Afghan in a lot of areas are thriving with markets and life etc. When I was there, as soon as the Taliban turned up, the civilians left because they knew the western military were hunting them, now they don't flee as much so you have to be so much more careful. Also while I was there 70% of all civilian casualties were as a direct result of Taliban actions (suicide bombings, car bombings, rocket attacks like Hamas use that fvck up and miss military targets but kill civilians, executions of teachers that just express an interest in teaching females, executions of headteachers for allowing girls at their school, the killing of children when they blew up a school because it taught girls, executions of village elders that just talk to the ISAF forces, executions of women for allowing their daughters to be educated. These are all things that I witnessed the aftermath of in my 6 months tour). The figures are better now as well due to us being more restricted, but I don't know the exact numbers.

Saying "cmon man be real, were trying our best, its not good enough" is just wrong. We are massively restricted as I've said. We do everything we can to minimise the risks to civilians. The Taliban don't. They believe that every death is gods will. They are more than willing to die for their beliefs and believe me, they have no concern about how many of their "brothers" they take with them.



mc187 said:


> dude its a war - when you see foreign people in your town you will defend it. yes they were rule by force but they ruled by thier own people. let them get on with it. ask yourself this...if you was serving over in afganistan and some random afgan bloke came up to you and asked why are you here in my village or town....what would you reply? i would struggle to find a reply to that and that why i feel for the troops (how can they stay motivated for so long and who knows what this is doing to their mental state of mind)


I was asked this by a local man in Afghan, just outside of the Sangin Valley, in Helmand. I told him that we were there to make sure that they are safe from the Taliban, because that was my job while I was there. He nodded , shook my hand and said thank you and offered me some tea and some bread. The Tea tasted like sh!t but the bread was nice. Many people seem to forget what the Taliban did to these people long before we arrived. The very fact that 100's of thousands of local people are willing to join the Afghan Police and Army to fight the Taliban alongside ISAF forces should be a good enough indicator of what the general consensus is about the Taliban!


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## Mighty.Panda (Oct 5, 2011)

They both think they have absolute claim to a piece of land. Neither side will ever back down and they will likely be killing each other until the end of time. The region has no solution it's just ceasefire - attack - ceasefire - attack - ceasefire - attack - ceasefire - attack. The conflict may stop one day but it won't likely be a result of Israel or Palestine's direct actions themselves, it'll be someone else intervening. Much of the world wants Israel nuked off the face of the earth anyway.

People are spot on when they say Israel is a rogue, militarized white supremacist state but at the same time they can't be blamed for popping ordnance over the fence when the other side has just thrown some. As Mikep81 said you would think Israel would be better at avoiding casualties given the fact they have state of the art guidance technology but it's not always the case. I'm sure Hamas do try on occasion but most of the crap they throw over is wildly inaccurate and unpredictable.

Let's just wait for another ceasefire and hope the number of babies getting burned to death is kept to "the minimum" it's foolish to hope for anything more.


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## jocksir (Aug 8, 2012)

They are defending their home land, they have been in invaded by another country, the rockets are being fired into illegally occupied territory, this has been confirmed by the international communities and The United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements is a violation of the Geneva Convention. The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal and no foreign government supports Israel's settlements. The Israeli's are effectively ethnically cleansing the area and no one is doing anything about it.

They are taking people's homes, life's away from them without just cause or maybe they have decided that they are unlawfully entilited to lands that they given initially given without the Arabs consent, the british army went in to defend the Jewish people when they made part of Palestine an Israeli settlement and their people even attacked them.

Since the year 2000 Israel has killed 6500 Palestinians, including 1300 children. In the same period, 754 Israelis have died as a result of Palestinian attacks.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

The Free Gaza Movement receives aid (a lot) from Syria, Turkey and even places as far flung as Philipines and Malaysia.

Generally from ex-pats in business there...and serious money too.

The rest of the Islamic states more or less do not even support Palestinians so the best thing they could do is attempt to leave there and get on with their lives in a normal safe environment for themselves but more importantly, their kids.

Hamas don't want this but unfortunately they don't care what ordinary civillians want so won't entertain the idea.

What they are trying to hold on to is of no value to them.

But because they're in power Israel wont deal with them and view them as terrorists, and sadly that includes the ordinary civillians.

Long story short, they're on their own and it's up to them to deal with it.

The best that could happen to them (Hamas) would be for the population to wipe them out like was done in Egypt and Libya recently, then take up the offers of aid from those other places and get to f**k away from the hole that it is and leave Israel 'triumphant' in finally getting their patch of sand.

Then, let it be known to the world exactly what the Israelis did to them..it's true Israel are hated now but in time to come they're going to look a whole lot worse when the truth comes out and makes them look exctly the same as the Nazis they were on the run from years ago. There's no other way.

The whole argument ''it's their land'' isn't worth a bucket of sand at this stage as it's gone too far with the volume of assistance Israel have gotten from the UK and America....but it's up to themselves to see this and act realistically about it in a way that benefits them and come out of it looking like the victims they are, and the Israeli state like the modern day Nazis they've become. Ironic really.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

jocksir said:


> They are defending their home land, they have been in invaded by another country, the rockets are being fired into illegally occupied territory, this has been confirmed by the international communities and The United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements is a violation of the Geneva Convention. The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal and no foreign government supports Israel's settlements. The Israeli's are effectively ethnically cleansing the area and no one is doing anything about it.
> 
> They are taking people's homes, life's away from them without just cause or maybe they have decided that they are unlawfully entilited to lands that they given initially given without the Arabs consent, the british army went in to defend the Jewish people when they made part of Palestine an Israeli settlement and their people even attacked them.
> 
> Since the year 2000 Israel has killed 6500 Palestinians, including 1300 children. In the same period, 754 Israelis have died as a result of Palestinian attacks.


It's never really been anyones homeland, as the Palestinians 'living' there have always been nomads, a sort of oddball community that dont adhere to any g'ment, not unlike the travelling communities in Ireland and England.

Sadly what you're saying about a slow ethnic cleansing is true...and worse still the fact that no-one actually admits to it is worse, which makes it obvious that they have to now do something to get out of this scenario and help themselves, the best way to do this is to leave the place.

Staying there complaining is getting them nowhere...get out of the kip and complain in the outside world where you might actually be heard for once and for all is the obvious solution.

As an aside...one of the biggest sellers of fruit to Europe is Israel and it's their biggest source of income. For all the International Court of Justice and Geneva Conventions talk where are the trade embargos to cut off money to Israel as per South Africa years ago?

Why do Israel have such clout?

If they have that much clout what can the Palestinians do? Nothing.....so get out of there and have done with it. I've personally met people who got out so it's not that it can't be done.


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

Some of the answers in this thread are laughable. Honest truth people,who can associate themselves with this?


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for your input @mikep81 I knew you'd have a lot to say, was a pain in the **** on this tiny phone lol, now let me ask you, your views on the gaza strip, isreal vs palestine, will it kick off bad? Who do you feel is in the right, where should it go from here


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

@barsnack

I was very disappointed to read your statement about Israel being wiped out. No people deserve to have such ill wishes levelled agains them.

@zack amin

I can tell you as an ex-serving member of the IDF that what went through my trap/shoulder when I was 19 was a bullet, not a rock; the palestinians are funded well, and supplied with weapons far more effective than sticks and stones.

I can tell you that you should count your self lucky that your biggest worry right now is whether your get gyno, rather than will you be shot sometime in your 3 year tour of duty. If you feel so strongly about it all, why not go to palestine?

But seriously people, we should learn from the late, great, Mahtma Ghandi; war and violence never solved any problems, the world should learn from India.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

zack amin said:


> Thanks for your input @mikep81 I knew you'd have a lot to say, was a pain in the **** on this tiny phone lol, now let me ask you, your views on the gaza strip, isreal vs palestine, will it kick off bad? Who do you feel is in the right, where should it go from here


Yeah sorry about that, I got carried away! I actually deleted a load of stuff as well as I drifted away from my points, lol.

I think it will kick off big time between them. Maybe not just now, but eventually it will. The fact that they've mobilised so many troops is a good combat indicator that they're ready to go now, but they may hold back. As I said there's only a certain amount you can push anyone before they push back and rocketing civilian targets it terrorism plain and simple. Yes HAMAS are fighting for their belief's but once they intentionally start killing civilians they are no longer freedom fighters, they are terrorists. If they feel the only way is to launch attacks then it should be against military targets. Now that's not to say that Israel are completely innocent, but the difference is, Israel at least appear to be only targeting Hamas targets. Yes civilians have been killed but that doesn't appear to have been their intention, and more of a collateral damage issue. Personally I think if Hamas just stopped all the attacks and tried using a peaceful solution then they wouldn't have half the problems they do, but as Ausbuilt pointed out. They have weapons and use them on the borders to provoke the Israeli troops's. Again I'm not saying the IDF are completely innocent, but it's not as clear cut as people think (having said that, I haven't been there myself and am only giving my opinion based on what friends who have operated there have told me). People who such as Hamas are very clever and will use "rock throwers" at the front of a riot on the border while gunmen stand back taking the off well aimed shot. It's the same tactic used everywhere and I have witnessed the same in Iraq. A riot broke out shot's were fired at us, we engaged the gunmen and by the time the bodies were recovered the weapons were gone and we were accused of shooting unarmed civilians, and if you watch the press reports that were happening live, you'd agree. It was only the fact that we had other surveillance means that were used on the day that proved these guys were armed.

As for who is right or wrong, well if you go way back then clearly the Israeli's are in the wrong, but does that excuse the intentional killing of innocent civilians? Is it realistic to expect Israel to head to Hamas' demands or are the fighting a losing battle? Personally I think it's the latter and someone has to stand up and be the bigger man so to speak. Now there's no way Israel can do that because every time they take a back foot they receive incoming and when the step up to aggression the incoming gets worse: they're in a no-win situation to be honest (unless they head to Hamas's demands which they won't do as it promotes terrorism), so it has to be Hamas that stands down, and they've fvcked themselves by using teh tactics they use. But that's just my opinion on it. Personally as someone else pointed out I don't think they'll ever solve it.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

May come across as ignorant but here goes:

What exactly is the cause of the hatred over there? Is it religion or are both israel and palestine of the same religious majority, just with different views, eg the catholic vs protestant troubles in Ireland?

I basically know fvck all about this conflict, have read this thread which has alot of views on whats right and wrong with the situation, but not much context. I know the names of these places from what ive seen on the news in the past, heard of the 'gaza strip' and the violence going on, but never much more.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

amigamike said:


> Oh and the same for the Irish , scots and welsh grow up its all in the past its only the rich gits who had anything to do with all that crap and us common folk got left with it. blowing up women and children in the name of peace...*no wonder all the stupid Irish jokes flow*...


Justifying racism........nice post mate! So any other race other than the Celts you wanna slag off?

Go on mate, have a real go. I know what about the disabled, coz they can't fight back.

Don't make silly posts, there's a good lad!


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## Southern Karate Guy (Feb 27, 2014)

mixerD1 said:


> I cant even take a wild guess at what your point is between this and your previous post. What are you on about?


Its just a ramble , anything to do with religion or politics is a waste of time , us the average working person has no say in what happens in reality. And im fed up with being told the english are responsible for all the problems in the world including invading scotland, ireland , wales the slave trade although i admit we are responsible for some truly awful music and tv


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## Southern Karate Guy (Feb 27, 2014)

latblaster said:


> Justifying racism........nice post mate! So any other race other than the Celts you wanna slag off?
> 
> Go on mate, have a real go. I know what about the disabled, coz they can't fight back.
> 
> Don't make silly posts, there's a good lad!


It not justifying racism , i jus dislike stupid people, religious nuts and most politicians. and my family were from ireland and france


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

F*cking disgusting whats going on, calling up 75,000 reserveists what for? Palestine has no army.

And as for the comments regarding Palestine rocketing Israel, why not? Isreal illegaly occupy Palestinian land, they control what goes in and out of Gaza, they control the electricity and even the medical supplies along with food. Gaza is 1 big prison, if it was the other way round im pretty sure the yanks would be bombing the **** out of Palestine.

A charity cant even sail a ship full of supplies and humanitarian aid to the Palestinians because Israel dont let them.

Funny thing is that the true Jewish population are even against the Israeli zionist regime themselves but we dont see that on our news or in the papers.











Google Jews against Zionism if you want to really see whats going on.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

A good point was made on Sunday Morning Live. "No matter what superpower you are, no matter conflict you are in, no matter what level of military action you are at, the intentional targeting of civilian targets is illegal under international law". The two representatives that are pro Hamas, didn't directly answer the question and kept saying Gaza is under siege. Yes they may be but intentionally targeting civilians is wrong. If Hamas stopped firing rockets at civilians the Israel would have no leg to stand on in terms of military action.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

amigamike said:


> It not justifying racism , i jus dislike stupid people, religious nuts and most politicians. and my family were from ireland and france


Well then you should know that Dublin was the slave trading capital of the world for a spell one time.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Netanyahoo has just said he is going to escalate the onslaught on Palestine.

This is not a good sign by any means, I wonder if the reservists are gonna invade?


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

latblaster said:


> Netanyahoo has just said he is going to escalate the onslaught on Palestine.
> 
> This is not a good sign by any means, I wonder if the reservists are gonna invade?


I think they will. I think Israel has had enough of it. I know there's an argument here that Israel are causing a majority of the problems but Hamas, despite the escalation by Israel are still launching into civilian areas. I don't get it to be honest. Every time Israel steps up to the next rung on the ladder of escalation it's another chance for Hamas to stop launching on the civilians. It doesn't make sense on Hamas's part and I can only think that maybe, there are some splinter groups from Hamas doing the launching. We used to have the same happen in Afghan. You'd get rockets coming in and then the radio would go nuts with the Taliban commanders asking who was launching rockets at the British and to stop immediately. But then when confronted the Taliban would deny that they tried to stop the attacks, presumably to save face. I just don't get why after every stage of escalation Hamas is still launching into Israel. Or maybe their plan is to try and draw Israel into a gorilla war and make them look bad. fvck knows, It hurts my brain trying to figure it out!!!


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## RockyD (Oct 8, 2012)

I really can't get my head around how any right minded person can attempt to justify Israel's actions. The overwhelming view of the international community is that Israel's occupation of Palestinian is an illegal one. They have continued to transfer their own civilian population into occupied territory in contravention of the fourth Geneva convention.

And yet people go on about "oh well if Hamas keep firing rockets Israel has a right to defend itself". What exactly are the Palestine expected to do in response to Israel refusing to obey international law and continuing to take more land daily?

Also Hamas are accused of targeting civilians yet Israel kills far more civilians in their attacks than Hamas does.

I will take over two thirds of your garden, start moving my relatives into it, then when you have a pop back, I will accuse you of provoking me.

Its a ridiculous situation.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I really don't understand any of it, & at the end of the day maybe someone else who we don't know about is pulling the strings? Conspiracy [email protected] I guess.

But what I do see in all of these conflicts is a colour & culture difference. It always seem that the arab states are portrayed as being wrong.

If anyone can correct me, I'm certainly gonna listen & weigh up the evidence & arguements.

Wish we could all get along, not in perfect hippy harmony just not resort to death so much. But maybe I'm an idealist.


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

latblaster said:


> I really don't understand any of it, & at the end of the day maybe someone else who we don't know about is pulling the strings? Conspiracy [email protected] I guess.
> 
> But what I do see in all of these conflicts is a colour & culture difference. It always seem that the arab states are portrayed as being wrong.
> 
> ...


I wonder if a group hug would work..............

On a serious note, i dont get it either, but we are only told one point of view..


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## Simon01 (Feb 23, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> And THAT is a very very bad move as Israel have the most battle hardened troops that exist today. Specially their israeli commandos


Very true.. This will be massive.


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

Having lived through conflict I'd much prefer it didn't happen, but it does - human nature I guess. Both sides are massively in the wrong, the only way out for the Palestinians was peaceful resistance and international pressure. But they picked a fight, and realistically they won't win. It's **** but that's how it goes.

We won't win in Afghanistan untill we kill all the ****ers, we can't do that so we won't win (if the Russians couldn't then we def can't) but I'm pretty sure the Israelies could kill all the Palestinians and possibly will.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

"At least 26 people were reported to have been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombardments on Sunday. Of those, at least 14 were women and children, Gaza health officials said.

This brought the death toll in Gaza since Israel launched its Operation Pillar of Defence on Wednesday to 72, the officials said."

Sickening.

It really can be compared to taking candy from a baby, the advantages and superior fire power Israel have including the backing of the USA and UK is a complete joke.

Free Palestine.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Mr_Morocco said:


> "At least 26 people were reported to have been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombardments on Sunday. Of those, at least 14 were women and children, Gaza health officials said.
> 
> This brought the death toll in Gaza since Israel launched its Operation Pillar of Defence on Wednesday to 72, the officials said."
> 
> ...


I know it sounds harsh, and admittedly I know nothing of the history/background to this conflict.

But if there was someone with FAR superior firepower and resources in my back yard, would I bollocks be firing rockets at them.

Palestine must be extremely frustrated but what were they hoping to achieve by using violent methods against a country with such resources?


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Mr_Morocco said:


> "At least 26 people were reported to have been killed in Gaza by Israeli bombardments on Sunday. Of those, at least 14 were women and children, Gaza health officials said.
> 
> This brought the death toll in Gaza since Israel launched its Operation Pillar of Defence on Wednesday to 72, the officials said."
> 
> ...


Of course there are going to be civilian casualties. In that type of operation they are hard to avoid. But the difference is that Israel aren't intentionally targeting civilians, well they don't appear to be anyway. Yes you could argue that Israel have forced Hamas into this position but as has been said, why on earth would you do that against a superior enemy. Israel won't stop because it'll make them seem week against terrorism. Hamas are the only ones that can stop this now by stopping their civilian targeting. Or at the very least they should switch to military only targets.

Anyone who says that Hamas is justified in targeting civilians is basically saying it was ok for the 7/7 bombers in London to kill civilians. After all it was all in protest against apparent illegal occupation! But what have the civilians of Israel done to deserve death and intentional bombardment? Hamas should be targeting the Israel government and its forces. Israel have killed civilians too yes but they've also provided evidence that leads to those civilian deaths appearing to be unintentional. I know you'll probably respond with the facts about the blockades etc, causing deaths too, and rightly so, but they aren't direct and intentional attacks against civilians. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Israel are more in the wrong here, but from a military and security point of view now, Hamas has crossed a line that Israel can't back down from, unfortunately.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

mikep81 said:


> Of course there are going to be civilian casualties. In that type of operation they are hard to avoid. But the difference is that Israel aren't intentionally targeting civilians, well they don't appear to be anyway. Yes you could argue that Israel have forced Hamas into this position but as has been said, why on earth would you do that against a superior enemy. Israel won't stop because it'll make them seem week against terrorism. Hamas are the only ones that can stop this now by stopping their civilian targeting. Or at the very least they should switch to military only targets.
> 
> Anyone who says that Hamas is justified in targeting civilians is basically saying it was ok for the 7/7 bombers in London to kill civilians. After all it was all in protest against apparent illegal occupation! But what have the civilians of Israel done to deserve death and intentional bombardment? Hamas should be targeting the Israel government and its forces. Israel have killed civilians too yes but they've also provided evidence that leads to those civilian deaths appearing to be unintentional. I know you'll probably respond with the facts about the blockades etc, causing deaths too, and rightly so, but they aren't direct and intentional attacks against civilians. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Israel are more in the wrong here, but from a military and security point of view now, Hamas has crossed a line that Israel can't back down from, unfortunately.


How can 7/7 be compared to Hamas shooting rockets into Israel (which is their land) be compared to the current goings on in Palestine.

Come on Mike your better than that.

If some group of people occupied my land i'd shoot rockets and do whatever i could to them IMO as would anyone else, its the same as the taliban shooting rockets into british and u.s bases, at the end of the day we are occupyin their land so how can it be classed as terrorism. If anything Israel are the biggest terrorists in the entire world for what they are doing. I heard a report today saying that Gaza had very low medical supplies (which israel control) even before this latest developement, so Israel attacking a country/area which has no army of any kind and in which they control even the medical supplies is sick beyond belief. I cannot see how anyone can justify Israel's actions at all.


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## Guvnor (Feb 28, 2011)




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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Mr_Morocco said:


> How can 7/7 be compared to Hamas shooting rockets into Israel (which is their land) be compared to the current goings on in Palestine.
> 
> Come on Mike your better than that.
> 
> If some group of people occupied my land i'd shoot rockets and do whatever i could to them IMO as would anyone else, its the same as the taliban shooting rockets into british and u.s bases, at the end of the day we are occupyin their land so how can it be classed as terrorism. If anything Israel are the biggest terrorists in the entire world for what they are doing. I heard a report today saying that Gaza had very low medical supplies (which israel control) even before this latest developement, so Israel attacking a country/area which has no army of any kind and in which they control even the medical supplies is sick beyond belief. I cannot see how anyone can justify Israel's actions at all.


You're missing my point. I have said many times now that Israel are wrong in terms of the initial problem. The comparison between the 7/7 bombers and Hamas is the INTENTIONAL KILLING OF CIVILIANS. The Taliban attacking British troops is combat. Hamas attacking Israeli troops is combat. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and Hamas targeting civilians is terrorism. Hamas's fight is with the Israel government, not the local civilians who, as has already been pointed out, don't all agree with the Israeli stance.

They're targeting innocent civilians for what? Why don't they target military establishments and at least try and reduce the amount of available assets to the IDF? Launching rockets at civilians makes no sense tactically or morally! By saying its OK to target civilians instead of the "establishment" your tarnishing the whole if Israel with the same brush.


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Seems to me that both sides are as bad as each other. Hamas is a terrorist organisation that has no qualms about random attacks on civilians. Israel treats the Palestinians worse than animals. I don't think there is any obvious solution but, regardless of who you feel has the longer-term moral high ground, Hamas is playing right into Israel's hands. Stop the terrorist attacks and Israel has no justification for it's ongoing policy of subjugation.

I'm also a bit cynical about the real motivation behind the conflict. There's an old saying "follow the money" and there is a lot of money being poured into both Palestine and Israel. Israel, for example, gets billions of dollars of unconditional aid every year from the US. Hamas doesn't do too badly either. You can guarantee that some individuals (on both sides) will be getting very rich on the back of that aid. Maybe the one thing the rest of the international community could do to try and reduce the suffering is to stop bankrolling the war effort of either side.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

Personally I'm with Israel on this. I beleive they are in the right and from a western point of view we have to have a strong ally in the region as a place to defend the Suez Canal where we ship 2.4 million barrels of oil for our way of life each day.

I personally hold MASSIVE respect to all members of the Israel Defence Force, a few of you have said how its Gaza who are out numbered and surrounded. In actual fact Israel are surrounded by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria with Iraq and Iran not too far away.

If you look at history the only reason I can find that Muslim nations are on that land is because the Romans invaded and kicked the jews out so in fact the palastinians are on Israels land, not the other way round.

A little history with sources linked to read before people try to shoot me down.....

In 1948 when Israel was formed it was done so with the backing of the League of Nations/United Nations. Five Arab army's invaded Israel and the international community defended them pushing the Arabs out. Israel left Egypt with Gaza and Jordan with the West Bank. While maintaining land they were given.

In 1956 Palastinian insurgency started on a large scale. Egypt also blockaded the port of Eilat, Israel respond with an attack on Egypt, Britain and France were set to Invade Egypt with Israel but the US side WITH the Arab nations and stopped it. (Source)

Israel build up their armed forces and in 1967 Egypt use force against the UN by using their army to remove UN peacekeepers, they reblockaded Israels port of Eilat and call for Arab action against Israel. Israel launch a preemptive strike and take Gaza, West Bank and other areas. (Source)

In 1973 Egypt attack Israel on their holy day when their armed forces were at their weakest. Israel still win and offer Egypt a cease fire as well as offer peace talks. (Source)

In 1979 Egypt formally recognise Israel and its borders.

In the early 1980s Palastinian gurellas are kicked out of Jordan by the Jordanian King. The gurellas move to Lebanon and begin attacks on Israel, Israel respond invading Lebanon, the UN condem Israel and Israel pull their forces back to their own borders.

In the late 1980s Israel start to settle on the land occupied in the 1967 conflict against UN ruling. Israel argue it is a buffer zone and that they have rights to do.

Early 1990s Palastinians renounce terrorism and seek peace, Israel agree that they will withdraw from their settlements built on the land gained from the 1967 conflict.

2000 Israel begin pulling out from the West Bank and Gaza, Yassa Arrafat returns to Palastinian from hiding, Hamas are formed in Palastinian and begin suicide attacks on Israel even though Israel were agreeing to their agreement to pull out. Israel respond by retaking the West Bank.

2005 Israel decide to change stratergy and withdrawn from Gaza and the West Bank and build heavily fortified walls and fences on the borders to keep terrorists out. Hamas win a power struggle in Palastien and over throw the PLO who were in peace talks with Israel.

2006 Hezbollah kill 10 Israel soldiers and take 2 captive in Jordan, Israel and Hezbollah fight for a month, Hamas and Hezbollah have increased fire power and The conflict makes little difference, Israel accuse Iran of arming the terrorist groups.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

PowerOutput said:


> I think they are a rogue state who ignore International law and keep people in camps denying them there basic rights.


Denying them their human rights ? Perhaps you are confused ? It seems its actually Hamas denying the Palastinian population their rights.....and as Israel are trying to get rid of Hamas one could argue they are fighting for their rights....

http://www.cnn.co.uk/2012/10/03/world/meast/gaza-hamas-abuses/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/03/hamas-torture-detainees-gaza

http://www.hrw.org/node/110517

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/08/01/gaza-hamas-should-stop-executions



PowerOutput said:


> It shouldn't exist wtf did you think i meant? It's a gangster terrorist state.


Just out of curiosity why do you think it shouldn't exist and what makes them gangster :s ?



barsnack said:


> Israel is scum, done nothing but bully the palestines...hope Israel do get wiped out


That's your opinion, what makes you think they bully the palastinians ?



The Cheese said:


> Ask a squaddie what he thinks of their fighting skills. The Iraqis, they've got no time for. The Afghans, they'll say they've got the balls but don't have a clue.
> 
> Iraq went on the way it did because we pussy footed the **** around. Afghan is the same - they'll nick some guy and 10 minutes later the local chief will release him so he can carry on fighting.
> 
> Ask a squaddie what he thinks of it over there. He'll tell you that he's fighting with one hand behind his back.


Is this your opinion or did you actually get this from a serviceman ? If so had he actually served in Iraq/Afganistan ? I find it hard to beleive that this would be his opinion as the current Taliban fighting technique is just a copy and paste of pre 2005 Iraq insurgency as they saw how effective it was against us.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> Is this your opinion or did you actually get this from a serviceman ? If so had he actually served in Iraq/Afganistan.


I talk to a few Marines who have served there as they're personal mates.

The main tactic that's similar between Iraq and Afghan is planting bombs. UK forces know who plants them but they can't do f*ck all about it. When they do get the go-ahead to arrest the guy making the bombs, he's either had a tip-off and scarpered or he's released by the Afghan police once they've handed him over.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Correct Marrsy...Hamas duped the civillians over there. A Palestinian refugee from Gaza told me that himself.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

mixerD1 said:


> Correct Marrsy...Hamas duped the civillians over there. A Palestinian refugee from Gaza told me that himself.


With any luck PLO will retake power in the next election f Hamas don't kill them all first and peace talks will start again.



The Cheese said:


> I talk to a few Marines who have served there as they're personal mates.
> 
> The main tactic that's similar between Iraq and Afghan is planting bombs. UK forces know who plants them but they can't do f*ck all about it. When they do get the go-ahead to arrest the guy making the bombs, he's either had a tip-off and scarpered or he's released by the Afghan police once they've handed him over.


I have heard similar story's about the Afgan police just releasing people since we let the ANA and ANP dictate our ROE, it's a massive shame too as I bet it's really costly to track one of these guys down and if the lads take justice into their own hands they end up on trial for murder like the 7 marines from a few weeks ago.


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

zack amin said:


> X2 with cult, if you drive through prestwich the jewish communit of manchester, they have there own ambulances,community police/security and all the shops are jewish, why? Because if you wanted to live there or start a business as a none jew, they'd have to approve it first, same with people who want to travel to isreal if you have any other country stamped on your passport which thye don't approve you won't be flying there, many people require 2 passports, palestinians are still there fighting with there sticks and stones they'll never give up, talk all you want about mossad and tuff isrealis but as I already pointed out, them palestinians and iraqis afghans have been holding of armys and super powers of the worlds with raggy clothes and 20 year old weapons, if russia or china ever decide to back them, I can see americas and isreals testicles shrivveling faster then mine on a gram of testosterone


The history of how the Jewish people have been treated over the centuries has caused the Israelite people to be as they are.

They were nearly totally destroyed.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Marrsy86 said:


> With any luck PLO will retake power in the next election f Hamas don't kill them all first and peace talks will start again.
> 
> I have heard similar story's about the Afgan police just releasing people since we let the ANA and ANP dictate our ROE, it's a massive shame too as I bet it's really costly to track one of these guys down and if the lads take justice into their own hands they end up on trial for murder like the 7 marines from a few weeks ago.


Not sure of how things are now out there but back in 2007 we couldn't give the ANA any Taliban prisoners as all they did was torture then kill them and we got no intelligence out of it. The police back then just used to let then go.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

The Vegetarian said:


> The history of how the Jewish people have been treated over the centuries has caused the Israelite people to be as they are.
> 
> They were nearly totally destroyed.


Simple as that...the fact they're still around is a tribute to determination, ingenuity and solidarity. And still putting up with discrimination and intolerance to this day. It's a good job they're not as naturally militant as some cultures or they'd be the only race on the planet.


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

I love the whole "they stole our land"!!!

Apart from the Gaza / West Bank issues, for which Marrsy kindly posted historical fact, when and where did this happen?

In a lot of cases, pre late 60s, land was bought from Palestinians by Israelis and future Israelis, for appropriate financial consideration. They Israelis developed the land through toil and labour from what had essentially been dirt and dust into agriculturally viable land; all of a sudden the Arabs start whining and moaning about "stolen" land.

When, at various times, Israelis have left "occupied territories", they left these same agricultural infrastuctures in place for the Arabs to take advantage of. Unsurprisingly, this land has reverted back to dirt and dust.

I also thought Marrsy was terribly kind when he described the collaboration of the various Arab states in the late 60s intent on invading the sovreign state of Israel. These allied forces actually, physically RAN AWAY when Israel stood ready to go toe to toe. The Arabs don't need any help from the Israelis on the humiliation front - the cowards frequently humiliate themselves with no input from outsiders.

Catching up, as for Hamas today, they won an "election" via vote rigging, torture, intimidation and the public murder of their truly political opposition. They were publicly setting fire to live members of the various electoral opposition and throwing them from rooftops for everyone to see what happens to those who might oppose them.

The Palestinian Authority on the West Bank is still even "forbidden" from merely entering Gaza under penalty of death. Yet somehow the Palestinian people of the West Bank are currently living in peace under the supervision of Abbas and the Authority, free of Israeli intervention.

Why? Their aim is peaceful resolution. They negotiate. They do not call for the murder of an entire poplulation and behave accordingly. The only reason the casualty counts are so disparate is not from want of trying, it's because Hamas are $hit at aiming Iranian armaments.

Eventually, hopefully, the most likely result of peaceful negotiation will be a 2 state solution. Hamas have no interest in any such solution. Their endgame is the annihilation of Israel. As such they remain legitimate targets - much as they view any and all Jews worldwide. Every Arab on the planet should hang their heads in shame witnessing the firing of rockets from school grounds using children as human sheilds.

The sooner the assasination of the Hamas leadership infrastructure, the sooner the likelihood of a peaceful solution. There can only be one or the other. There can be no peace as far as Hamas is concerned - barring the extermination of the Israeli people. I hope this is the current intent of Israel so that things can finally start moving toward a peaceful solution - to make an omlette, you've got to crack a few eggs.

Sadly, many of the misinformed pro-Palestinian types whose posts I've read in this thread will refuse to believe these absolute inarguable facts. And they are internationally observed and accepted FACT - not Israeli propoganda.

One last thought - I keep hearing about the starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza due to the various blockades and restrictions. If so, how come I keep seeing so many fat motherf*ckers on the tv news? And there appears to be a $hitload of them too - just look at the footage. Just wondering is all ...


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

spike said:


> I love the whole "they stole our land"!!
> 
> One last thought - I keep hearing about the starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza due to the various blockades and restrictions. If so, how come I keep seeing so many fat motherf*ckers on the tv news? And there appears to be a $hitload of them too - just look at the footage. Just wondering is all ...


It is because as in many areas where food is short, they eat a high carb low protein diet. And we all know what that does to you.

Bread and grain is cheaper than protein.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

Just read that Israel increased their reservist mobilisation upto 75,000 yesterday,

They have confirmed they have hit 1,350 sites since Wednesday too.

Can't help think this could be leading to something big, The RAF have Typhoon jets at Minhad in Dubai and the Royal Navy along with its French, German and US counterparts have built up a large naval force in the Persian Gulf with missle and air capabilities to protect the Straight of Hormuz.

That Mayan end of the world thing in December 2012 might be true after all :s

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228007/Cameron-reveals-UK-jets-Gulf-deter-Iran-starts-day-tour-Middle-East.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9545597/Armada-of-international-naval-power-massing-in-the-Gulf-as-Israel-prepares-an-Iran-strike.html


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## klint37 (Jan 26, 2012)

There is an old prediction of doom and glom that is due soon from that area. my thoughts someone will intervin give some one money or more power backng and it will settle down again. then again nothing brings about a good end of triple ression as war, supply and rebuilding


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

spike said:


> One last thought - I keep hearing about the starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza due to the various blockades and restrictions. If so, how come I keep seeing so many fat motherf*ckers on the tv news? And there appears to be a $hitload of them too - just look at the footage. Just wondering is all ...


Good point actually.

Another point is how can they smuggle the 877 rockets that have been fired at Israel in the past week over the border but some how not be able to smuggle food and water in ? Not that I have seen any requirement for food or water, the international charity's websites who monitor this type of thing have no mention of famin or drought in Gaza on their websites just the fact Hamas are torchering people for no real reason.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Just been watching the BBC News. Does anyone know where Gaazaah is? Is it in Palestine perhaps?


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

lukeee said:


> On the one hand i feel sorry for the people of palestine as they have to live somewhere at the end of the day but they dont help themselves sometimes!
> 
> That said a customer of mine served in the army years ago when palestine was handed over to israel and he said the israelis were a wicked bunch, said he killed a few during the troubles and ive no reason to doubt him, particulaly wicked to innocent palestinians he reckoned!


yes very true, england got tired of the hole situation and left the keys under the mat,and withdrew to leave it were we are at today

hamas do not speak for the ppl as a whole, but there literally impounded rats in palestine, i wouldnt doubt the most peaceful of us would not feel like throwing a rock every now and then, if at a check point, you queue for 4-5 hours for an israli soldier to tell you you aint getting through today, come back tomorrow

many peaceful boats have tried to force through tje blockade and members aboard these ships have been murdered by israel


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> Good point actually.
> 
> Another point is how can they smuggle the 877 rockets that have been fired at Israel in the past week over the border but some how not be able to smuggle food and water in ? Not that I have seen any requirement for food or water, the international charity's websites who monitor this type of thing have no mention of famin or drought in Gaza on their websites just the fact Hamas are torchering people for no real reason.


they do smuggle food in, think ross kemp done a programme on it, the kids are only ones small enough to fit in the smuggling holes that are dug but its common for the tunnels to collapse...good programme


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## scouse2010 (Mar 17, 2010)

could some one give me summary of why Palestine and Israel fight


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

cult said:


> Thats one thing we fought so hard for and is now in teh good friday agreement and in the not to long future, its going to happen.


i wouldnt be so sure, its a vote for the ppl of the 6co only, if it is to affect the constitution of the free state we should have had it wrote into the GFA, a 32co vote

we will need to re write a new constitution, new goverment house, location etc

i really want to give the orange brethren a warm welcome into the 32 eire nua, a chara


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Do we have some Caitliceachs on here?


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## WillOdling (Aug 27, 2009)

scouse2010 said:


> could some one give me summary of why Palestine and Israel fight


I'll give you one guess


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Land?


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

latblaster said:


> Do we have some Caitliceachs on here?


guilty


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Same here mate.  When did you last go to confession? I haven't been for 20 years!


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

scouse2010 said:


> could some one give me summary of why Palestine and Israel fight


Religion mainly.

But it's become more about Israel pushing out the Palestinian people from their own land.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

scouse2010 said:


> could some one give me summary of why Palestine and Israel fight


Short version = religion.

Long version = religion, state boundaries and people pushing Israel around.


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## scouse2010 (Mar 17, 2010)

WillOdling said:


> I'll give you one guess


who has the hardest god ?

that or money


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## scouse2010 (Mar 17, 2010)

XRichHx said:


> Religion mainly.
> 
> But it's become more about Israel pushing out the Palestinian people from their own land.


why do they want to do this ?

and why has it been going on for years,why haven't they just wiped them out ?


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

XRichHx said:


> Religion mainly.
> 
> But it's become more about Israel pushing out the Palestinian people from their own land.


Their own land as in Palestinian land or Israel land ?


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> Short version = religion.
> 
> Long version = religion, state boundaries and people pushing Israel around.


people pushing isreal around? dude are you serious?


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> Their own land as in Palestinian land or Israel land ?


It was Palestinian land until the British secured a deal with the UN to divide the country up and stick the Jews there.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

scouse2010 said:


> why do they want to do this ?
> 
> and why has it been going on for years,why haven't they just wiped them out ?


Territorial expansion, it's basically ethnic cleansing by Israel. Israel are militarily strong, backed by the US.

They can't just wipe out Palestine, they are Muslim country and if they went steamboats to kill everyone then the Middle East would blow up.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

The Vegetarian said:


> The history of how the Jewish people have been treated over the centuries has caused the Israelite people to be as they are.
> 
> They were nearly totally destroyed.


i should add i have no problem with them being within there own community thats one thing i think many other coultures could stand to learn from eachother and one thing ive always notices about isrealis/jews in the uk that they look after one and other, but i far from agree with what is going on there and it is clear from anyone stand point that isreal is waving around a big stick but soon as palestine have a big stick the game will change


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

zack amin said:


> i should add i have no problem with them being within there own community thats one thing i think many other coultures could stand to learn from eachother and one thing ive always notices about isrealis/jews in the uk that they look after one and other, but i far from agree with what is going on there and it is clear from anyone stand point that isreal is waving around a big stick but soon as palestine have a big stick the game will change


I agree. The biggest stick is their nuclear weapons.

Another problem i see is, Israel always whip out the "we were persecuted by the nazis" card as if it somehow justifies bombing gaza in to the Stone Age. If anything they should know better than anyone.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> I know it sounds harsh, and admittedly I know nothing of the history/background to this conflict.
> 
> But if there was someone with FAR superior firepower and resources in my back yard, would I bollocks be firing rockets at them.
> 
> Palestine must be extremely frustrated but what were they hoping to achieve by using violent methods against a country with such resources?


how many years could you stand by while your land was being taken? your electricity was controlled, isreali check points in and out, thousands of people being killed, you can only push someone so far until they pop, maybe thats whats happened, maybe enough is enough, id like to see a peacefull resolution, i dont believe in the suffering of any men women and children, unofrtunatley its gone on to long, and its come to far


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

zack amin said:


> people pushing isreal around? dude are you serious?





XRichHx said:


> It was Palestinian land until the British secured a deal with the UN to divide the country up and stick the Jews there.


I will try to respond to both in one post.

To my knowledge if you go back over 3000 years to 1209 BC it was all Israel and belonged to the early Jewish people, it wasnt until 930 BC when the Phylistines (early palastinians) started kicking up a fuss. In 750BC both Israel and Gaza (where Phylistines lived) were invaded and the local populis exiled, the Philistines had plenty of local friends in the region due to religious ties.

The Jews roamed searching for a home and were pushed round by the Romans, the Egyptians, the English, the Nazis and alot of Muslim nations to name a few in the mean time.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

I always thought the Gaza strip was taken from the Eqyptians in the war they had against them??


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

zack amin said:


> how many years could you stand by while your land was being taken? your electricity was controlled, isreali check points in and out, thousands of people being killed, you can only push someone so far until they pop, maybe thats whats happened, maybe enough is enough, id like to see a peacefull resolution, i dont believe in the suffering of any men women and children, unofrtunatley its gone on to long, and its come to far


Any chance you could link to some credible sources for this ? I have all ready supplied sources earlyer in the thread that show Hamas to be treating the palastinian people worse than Israel.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

lukeee said:


> I always thought the Gaza strip was taken from the Eqyptians in the war they had against them??


It was, and it was then given back, then invaded/given back a few times in retaliation for various palastinian attacks and treaty breaks.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> I will try to respond to both in one post.
> 
> To my knowledge if you go back over 3000 years to 1209 BC it was all Israel and belonged to the early Jewish people, it wasnt until 930 BC when the Phylistines (early palastinians) started kicking up a fuss. In 750BC both Israel and Gaza (where Phylistines lived) were invaded and the local populis exiled, the Philistines had plenty of local friends in the region due to religious ties.
> 
> The Jews roamed searching for a home and were pushed round by the Romans, the Egyptians, the English, the Nazis and alot of Muslim nations to name a few in the mean time.


Which is fine.

but right now they are firing rockets because of this act...






look at the video, the Israelis blew this guy up in street, starting this, but some how its acceptable for Israel to now invade? something not quite right there.

And yes the everyone loved to pick on the Jews, but were not in 1209BC were in 2012. Newcastle, Berwick and Carlisle were all Scottish but you don't see me firing rockets at England.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

I see they are still lobbing over rockets etc.. And the fella Israel bumped off was the main man when it came to sourcing more advanced weapons so sort of makes sense they took him out if he was the man behind the mass of stuff shot at Civilians in Israel..

I know a lot of people disagree with what Israel is doing and no one wants to see it but they cant sit back and do nothing, Hamas will just see it as weakness and do more


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

barsnack said:


> Israel is scum, done nothing but bully the palestines...hope Israel do get wiped out


feel sorry for the Palestinians, pushed and trapped into pockets like prisons, and on their own land, in their own country!


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## MrBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Would be a boon for Israel if they could secure the border to Egypt to prevent the smugling of weapons into Gaza. Not sure if Egypt would roll with that.... US playing lip service as per usual. Don't have a stance on this one personally just know it's not about to sort itself out since they've pretty much been at it for a thousand years.

Interesting to note that the majority of Israel's weapons are US made and the Iron shield missile defence system was part funded by our American cousins.

But the whole situation as is our fault for just p1ssing off and leaving them to it after world war two!

Be nice if they all got it sorted for Christmas though. Santa might not come otherwise.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> Any chance you could link to some credible sources for this ? I have all ready supplied sources earlyer in the thread that show Hamas to be treating the palastinian people worse than Israel.


Ill post on behalf of @zack amin I hope that's ok.

Article on Water control by Israel.

http://www.imemc.org/article/46460

Map of Israel checkpoint in the west bank "the fence"

http://mideastweb.org/thefence.htm

Article on Israel expanding territory into Palastenian lands

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/unchecked.html

http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/blogs/politics/4312-israel-tries-again-to-justify-expanding-west-bank-settlements


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

XRichHx said:


> Which is fine.
> 
> but right now they are firing rockets because of this act...
> 
> ...


In my opinion that video shows a fair strike, it is a military target in a situation that offers a high chance of a kill with low injury to civilians and Hamas are known to use human shields so they took him out at their best possible time. Hamas then replied with indiscriminate rocket barrages that included civilian areas. In my eyes Israel have the right to go in and destroy Hamas and its leadership, NOT the Palastinian civilians though, if the previous government of PLO were still in power I doubt this would have happened as they were in successful peace talks with Israel.

I know Hamas won the election but it has been sugessted by people in this thread that it was fixed and intimidation tactics were used to win and I wouldent put that past them.

I never said we were in 1209BC that was just some free history for you, the roman abuse was around 3AD the English was in the 1600 and the nazis were in the 1900 so as you can see it spans over 3000 years. They have taken it a lot longer than the palastinians.

If you trace the British blood lines back far enough it removes the point of your Scotland argument as we were all originally Celtic so we all shared the same land, and we were all of the heathen pagan religion and hand very little to fight about.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

RockyD said:


> The ignorance re Israel is strong, we have been told by our media that both sides are as bad as each other and Hamas are terrorists etc. But the fact is if it wasn't for it's relationship with the US, Israel would be considered a rogue state.
> 
> International law decrees that Israel withdraw from Palestine and restores pre 1967 boundaries yet instead they continue to claim more of Palestine daily. They have been condemned on countless occasions by the UN for refusing to withdraw from occupied land, for continuing to build settlements on occupied land and for general abuses and breaches of human rights in their treatment of Palestinians. They have been condemned by the UN more times than any other nation on the planet.
> 
> We are told by the media that those that fight the government in Syria and Libya are "rebels" they are good guys, yet we are told that Hamas are terrorists for retaliating woith force to a foreign state that is systematically taking over their country.


well said, if the above was a rogue muslim state, the u.s and its allies would have invaded years ago, its a disgrace what israel gets away with


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

XRichHx said:


> Ill post on behalf of @zack amin I hope that's ok.
> 
> Article on Water control by Israel.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that, I read the first two as I have already read up on Israel expanding into Gaza.

If you read my previous time line post a few pages back it explains how, at least in my opinion Israel were fine to expand into Gaza, they then pulled out leaving all the infrastructure Israel constructed in place.

The West Bank fence was a change in stratergy by Israel of building fortifications on their border instead of a full occupation of Gaza, they may have kept parts of their land but they did give the majority back even after the palastinians had broken previously agreed deals for Israel to withdraw completely to witch they were complying.

The water article is an interesting read and I'm glad you linked it as I hadn't read much into it. I also found this.....

http://www.solidarity-us.org/node/302

It's pretty long but it's less biased and shows that recently Israel have reduced the waster supply to Gaza by 50%, it also however says earlier the Israels increased the wells in Gaza from 1200 upto 2100. So there are two sides to the coin.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

lukeee said:


> I always thought the Gaza strip was taken from the Eqyptians in the war they had against them??


Egypt was a little like a governing state, they basically baby sat Gaza but it was its own land, it was occupied but Israel after the war but they have it back.



Clubber Lang said:



> feel sorry for the Palestinians, pushed and trapped into pockets like prisons, and on their own land, in their own country!


By Hamas, not Israel.

http://www.cnn.co.uk/2012/10/03/world/meast/gaza-hamas-abuses/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/03/hamas-torture-detainees-gaza

http://www.hrw.org/node/110517

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/08/01/gaza-hamas-should-stop-executions


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> Egypt was a little like a governing state, they basically baby sat Gaza but it was its own land, it was occupied but Israel after the war but they have it back.
> 
> By Hamas, not Israel.
> 
> ...


No point using Jewish owned media outlets as your source mate.

I dont see why its not allowed that the likes of Iran/Palestine and any other country for that matter have nulcear capability. Israel have it and its ok for them to bomb the sh*t out of civillians daily but its a big no no for Iran to develope nuclear weapons.

We can discuss this situation all day but the facts are there for all to see, what is going on right now is sickening but as we know Israel's zionist regime will be allowed to continue because they control much of the U.S and have alot of power.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

amigamike said:


> It not justifying racism , i jus dislike stupid people, religious nuts and most politicians. and my family were from ireland and france


im surprised for someone who claims to have irish heritage could be so ignorant ill informned and racist

you dislike stupid ppl? maybe learn a thing or two before you post such **** then


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Mr_Morocco said:


> No point using Jewish owned media outlets as your source mate.
> 
> I dont see why its not allowed that the likes of Iran/Palestine and any other country for that matter have nulcear capability. Israel have it and its ok for them to bomb the sh*t out of civillians daily but its a big no no for Iran to develope nuclear weapons.
> 
> We can discuss this situation all day but the facts are there for all to see, what is going on right now is sickening but as we know Israel's zionist regime will be allowed to continue because they control much of the U.S and have alot of power.


Thing is would you trust Iran with a nuclear weapon???


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

lukeee said:


> Thing is would you trust Iran with a nuclear weapon???


Certainly don't trust the Zionists with several of them. Wonder what would happen if anyone tried to end their constant breach of International Law? :whistling:


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

PowerOutput said:


> Certainly don't trust the Zionists with several of them. Wonder what would happen if anyone tried to end their constant breach of International Law? :whistling:


Well they wouldnt nuke anyone


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

Mr_Morocco said:


> No point using Jewish owned media outlets as your source mate.
> 
> I dont see why its not allowed that the likes of Iran/Palestine and any other country for that matter have nulcear capability. Israel have it and its ok for them to bomb the sh*t out of civillians daily but its a big no no for Iran to develope nuclear weapons.
> 
> We can discuss this situation all day but the facts are there for all to see, what is going on right now is sickening but as we know Israel's zionist regime will be allowed to continue because they control much of the U.S and have alot of power.


What would be a suitable source ? Got any proof anything I linked is Jewish owned ?

Palastien aren't aloud nukes as they can't even afford to maintain civil infrastructure never,ind the maintenance of nuclear weapons.

Your right, the facts are there for all to see.....Hamas are firing into Israel indiscriminately while Israel return fire at Military and strategic targets.



PowerOutput said:


> Certainly don't trust the Zionists with several of them. Wonder what would happen if anyone tried to end their constant breach of International Law? :whistling:


Star Wars would kick in and destroy them in the air if it wasn't a US approved target. Same if Iran invented ICBM capable nukes.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

israel are beyond delighted that hamas are in charge of palestine at present

they can constantly play we will not negotiate with terrorists card, if hamas were not in power israel would have to seriously enter into negotiations about a palestinian homeland

hamas are in power because the majority ppl of palestine are blood thristy for revenge, hopefully they can be ousted in the near future and peaceful resolution found

God knows they deserve it


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> What would be a suitable source ? Got any proof anything I linked is Jewish owned ?
> 
> Palastien aren't aloud nukes as they can't even afford to maintain civil infrastructure never,ind the maintenance of nuclear weapons.
> 
> ...


really, they kiilled a family today, target might have been a hamas policeman, so does that mean killing his 4 kids is justified, or how bout the 9 kids killed on sunday


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

Marrsy86 said:


> What would be a suitable source ? Got any proof anything I linked is Jewish owned ?
> 
> Palastien aren't aloud nukes as they can't even afford to maintain civil infrastructure never,ind the maintenance of nuclear weapons.
> 
> ...


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> Star Wars would kick in and destroy them in the air if it wasn't a US approved target. Same if Iran invented ICBM capable nukes.


What is/are star wars?

Pretty sure you arent on about the one with lightsabers?


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> Star Wars would kick in and destroy them in the air if it wasn't a US approved target. Same if Iran invented ICBM capable nukes.


You saying USA and it's lackies have batteries and satellites and that can destroy any airborn ICBM in the region? Or planet is that?

Or am I getting carried away?


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> What would be a suitable source ? Got any proof anything I linked is Jewish owned ?
> 
> Palastien aren't aloud nukes as they can't even afford to maintain civil infrastructure never,ind the maintenance of nuclear weapons.
> 
> ...


http://rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm

The amount of influence Israel has in the U.S is staggering


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

barsnack said:


> really, they kiilled a family today, target might have been a hamas policeman, so does that mean killing his 4 kids is justified, or how bout the 9 kids killed on sunday


So there was a legitimate target? Do you have a source or link to a video of how it was done ? Perhaps the copper was in his car and they couldent see the children from the drone or plane ? And the 9 kids on Sunday might have been unfortunate people caught in crossfire, smart bombs do go wrong sometimes, ISAF have accidentally injured a fair amount of Civillians due to equipment malfunctions.

I found the below link to a guardian article that I'm guessing your referring to ? I'm not sure if it can be trusted though as @Mr_Morocco has claimed the Guardian is owned by Jews ..... apparently.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/19/gaza-conflict-four-children-buried

Lucky that Israel have a rocket defence system up to shot down a fair amount of the rockets launched at random targets inside Israel as more civilian deaths in Israel would surly intensify Israels effort to destroy Hamas.



lostwars said:


> israel are beyond delighted that hamas are in charge of palestine at present
> 
> they can constantly play we will not negotiate with terrorists card, if hamas were not in power israel would have to seriously enter into negotiations about a palestinian homeland
> 
> ...


There were successful peace talks with PLO and Israel before Hamas took control.....


----------



## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

PowerOutput said:


> You saying USA and it's lackies have batteries and satellites and that can destroy any airborn ICBM in the region? Or planet is that?
> 
> Or am I getting carried away?





onthebuild said:


> What is/are star wars?
> 
> Pretty sure you arent on about the one with lightsabers?


It's basically a ground battery and laser space weapon system to destroy airborne targets various watching stations are around the world, I have linked two that are in England, all information is public domain. People also say it can now target ground and naval targets but I'm not so sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fylingdales

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Menwith_Hill



Mr_Morocco said:


> http://rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm
> 
> The amount of influence Israel has in the U.S is staggering


Then why do those media sources report the killing of Palastinian Civillians too ?


----------



## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Mr_Morocco said:


> No point using Jewish owned media outlets as your source mate.
> 
> *I dont see why its not allowed that the likes of Iran/Palestine and any other country for that matter have nulcear capability. Israel have it and its ok for them to bomb the sh*t out of civillians daily but its a big no no for Iran to develope nuclear weapons.*
> 
> We can discuss this situation all day but the facts are there for all to see, what is going on right now is sickening but as we know Israel's zionist regime will be allowed to continue because they control much of the U.S and have alot of power.


As Mars has pointed out the first step being allowed to develop nuclear capabilities is proving that you have the means to keep them secure and safe. No country who cannot guarantee the safety, in terms of anti theft and maintenance, of nuclear weapons would ever be allowed them. It's just too much of a risk. People don't want Iran to have nuclear capabilities because their crack pot leader might just be nuts enough to use them, which obviously makes everyone a little nervous. Plus they've pretty much vowed to destroy Israel and giving them nukes would just facilitate the ability to wipe out an entire nation.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

XRichHx said:


> Which is fine.
> 
> but right now they are firing rockets because of this act...
> 
> ...


Wasn't that part of the initial day of strikes in RESPONSE to continued Hamas rocket attacks?


----------



## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

@lostwars

I can't quote you because of the way you posted on my iPad.

So your claiming the palastinians can't get hold of cement but they have been able to get hold of over 800 Rockets to fire into Israel ?


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

mikep81 said:


> Wasn't that part of the initial day of strikes in RESPONSE to continued Hamas rocket attacks?


Nah that one is what started this latest conflict. Mossad and Shin Bet would have considerable intel for them to give it the nod though.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Marrsy86 said:


> It's basically a ground battery and *laser* space weapon system to destroy airborne targets various watching stations are around the world, I have linked two that are in England, all information is public domain. People also say it can now target ground and naval targets but I'm not so sure.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative
> 
> ...


Couldnt help but read 'laser' in this guys voice



Interesting stuff ill get reading!


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Marrsy86 said:


> @lostwars
> 
> I can't quote you because of the way you posted on my iPad.
> 
> So your claiming the palastinians can't get hold of cement but they have been able to get hold of over 800 Rockets to fire into Israel ?


Ah well at least they have their priorities right :whistling:


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Marrsy, they actually missed the Hamas target and bombed an innocent household killing 9

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/19/gaza-bombing-daloo-family_n_2157721.html?ncid=GEP

theres the link


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

onthebuild said:


> Couldnt help but read 'laser' in this guys voice
> 
> View attachment 101410
> 
> ...


It's a good read mate, I will try dig out a post from abovetopsecret that had a supposed leaked document about it. It claimed it was a lot like that weapon from Under siege 2 with ground based stuff on stand by incase of poor weather for the targeting systems and a few other factors.

When I said all information is public domain I was referring to what I mentioned and linked, not saying your stupid but when I reread it some may intemperate the way I worded it as being able to get the construction blueprints on eBay


----------



## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

barsnack said:


> Marrsy, they actually missed the Hamas target and bombed an innocent household killing 9
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/19/gaza-bombing-daloo-family_n_2157721.html?ncid=GEP
> 
> theres the link


Cheers for sourcing mate, it's annoying when people post with nothing to back it up 

Quoted from the linked source

"The IDF confirmed the killings, saying it was targeting a high-ranking member of the Hamas military, reported to be Yehiya Rabiah. However, a problem with laser paint targeting or a misfire had caused the bomb to land on the wrong house, hitting the Daloo's neighbouring dwelling."

Seems like something similar to what I speculated  it's a shame when civilians die due to equipment malfunction.



Marrsy86 said:


> And the 9 kids on Sunday might have been unfortunate people caught in crossfire, smart bombs do go wrong sometimes, ISAF have accidentally injured a fair amount of Civillians due to equipment malfunctions.


----------



## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

barsnack said:


> Marrsy, they actually missed the Hamas target and bombed an innocent household killing 9
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/19/gaza-bombing-daloo-family_n_2157721.html?ncid=GEP
> 
> theres the link





Marrsy86 said:


> Cheers for sourcing mate, it's annoying when people post with nothing to back it up
> 
> Quoted from the linked source
> 
> ...


And that's the big difference here, in my opinion. Israel are not intentionally targeting civilians. Hamas are. Accidents happen, but I'm still yet to see from anywhere, including the pro Hamas on here, justification for killing innocent civilians intentionally.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

show me the terrorist targets bro


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

theres your targets bro, theres your terrorists army structures and personell thats been attacked **** your sources theres the ****ing pictures, that **** bought a tear to my eye, make of it what you ****in wish


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Well I have been to both Gaza and the West Bank of Palestine, and while I can't comment upon the accuracy of any reports for events I have not been a personal witness to such as any of these recent events, one thing I can say is that where I was witness to some specific events when there in 2003 and 2004, the restrictions and control over the flow of information that came out of Palestine during these kinds of events then was staggering... my observation is that the Israeli civilian population itself is massively mislead, as is the international community.

Most of the media information that comes out from these events is provided and sanctioned for release by the branch of Israeli government that regulates media access (Just like reporting from any war zone is controlled by the military governing the relevant territory), and the basic ultimatum given to news networks and independent journalists who wish to report from there is "get your information from officially sanctioned Israeli media or get out and have nothing at all".

The same is true of the ability of journalists to perform background research - access is very heavily restricted by the Israeli security services and extremely difficult... one thing I would urge everyone with an interest in these events is not to conclude that the reporting by the western media (or any media for that matter) in the context of events in the region is either definitive, accurate or without extreme editorial pressure and bias. There is a great degree of relevant information that never even makes it into the discussion, and that which does is very heavily censored, controlled and restricted at source. Be wary of bias from aid orgs too.

I am not going to get into my own personal views or experiences here because this is a very tender subject for me emotionally. One personal opinion I will voice though is that so long as people take the view that this whole thing is about 'sides', where one side is wrong and to be vilified and the other side is to be appolgised for there will be no solution.

The fact is that atrocities have been committed by all parties involved, but more importantly there is a massive catalogue of human suffering both in the past and the present, and clearly that situation has not been changed or improved over time due to the political stance of Israel, Palestine and the world at large in the last thirty years - in fact it has gotten worse precisely because of those policies, attitudes and actions.

Israeli land incursions, curfews and attacks on civilian infrastructure to lower enemy moral and to disrupt organisational capability (they do target civilian infrastructure for this very purpose btw - not all targets are at all military) simply do not diffuse tension, they create it, and the often indiscriminate suicide and rocket attacks from Palestinians do not persuade Israelis to move towards a more moderate response, they encourage a harder line in retaliation.

Until zionism, militant islamic resistance, and the international supporters of both of those movements actually change direction and show some humility, admit mistakes and put the value of human life above ideology or the need for revenge then in my view things will only continue the same way.


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> It's basically a ground battery and laser space weapon system to destroy airborne targets various watching stations are around the world, I have linked two that are in England, all information is public domain. People also say it can now target ground and naval targets but I'm not so sure.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative
> 
> ...


I've read about this before that's why I checked we same wavelength.

Don't think that would really work though in all out attack? Stealth counter tech, etc


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

zack amin said:


> View attachment 101414
> View attachment 101415
> 
> 
> ...


There'll be more of this before the weeks up. Israel will steam in there and kill everything going.

Here's an interesting news article from Russia today, check the quotes from some of israels leaders. Beggar belief.

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-war-103/


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

zack amin said:


> theres your targets bro, theres your terrorists army structures and personell thats been attacked **** your sources theres the ****ing pictures, that **** bought a tear to my eye, make of it what you ****in wish


You have absolutely no proof that the people in these pictures were the targets or that these are recent photos and not recycled propaganda being churned out similar to the way the Tunisians, Egyptians, Lybians and Syrians have when they went up against a superior force over the past two years.

One thing I will say is there is rarely a reason to have to kill a child in war and those pictures are saddening. Now I'm not going to go off and hunt for photos of injured and dead children but I'm sure there will unfortunately be some on in Israel too


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

PowerOutput said:


> I've read about this before that's why I checked we same wavelength.
> 
> Don't think that would really work though in all out attack? Stealth counter tech, etc


That's a good point, I think it would still work though, technology has probably advanced to a level where we can track misled by radar signature, sound, heat, air pressure changes, metallic oscillation and a whole host of other things.

I read a article about the system the Chinese are meant to have and it was absolutely mind boggling. Can't find the source now though but I can remember its targeting system was found on google earth out in the gobi dessert lol.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> You have absolutely no proof that the people in these pictures were the targets or that these are recent photos and not recycled propaganda being churned out similar to the way the Tunisians, Egyptians, Lybians and Syrians have when they went up against a superior force over the past two years.
> 
> One thing I will say is there is rarely a reason to have to kill a child in war and those pictures are saddening. Now I'm not going to go off and hunt for photos of injured and dead children but I'm sure there will unfortunately be some on in Israel too


and wheres your proof that the articles you published are honest none biased reports? wheres your proof that the IDF is infact trying to only target ARMY personell and buildings? because somebody told you so? because you read it and believe what you read? i agree its fcuking horrible and sad for ANY CHILD TO BE KILLED, but theres alot more been killed in palestine, and you want proof about those pics bro? they were taken of an palestinian website with live updates of the attacks from isreal ill link you to it if you want but some of the pics are horrific


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/gazaunderattack-nov-18-2012-live-blog/


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> And that's the big difference here, in my opinion. Israel are not intentionally targeting civilians. Hamas are. Accidents happen, but I'm still yet to see from anywhere, including the pro Hamas on here, justification for killing innocent civilians intentionally.


for people who are not intentionally targeting civvi's they seem to hit alot?


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

zack amin said:


> and wheres your proof that the articles you published are honest none biased reports? wheres your proof that the IDF is infact trying to only target ARMY personell and buildings? because somebody told you so? because you read it and believe what you read? i agree its fcuking horrible and sad for ANY CHILD TO BE KILLED, but theres alot more been killed in palestine, and you want proof about those pics bro? they were taken of an palestinian website with live updates of the attacks from isreal ill link you to it if you want but some of the pics are horrific


You just said **** my sources in your previous post.....now your open for discussion on them ?

Your linking from a Palastinian website....of course it's going to be biased. At least my sources were from a third party country, before you argue that US and UK sources are Jewish owned, biased and censored both the guardian and CNN are reporting over 100 Palastinian casualties. I'm guessing that's more than your website is saying for the things in Israel.

If you look into it I would bet Syria have a similar website and Lybians would have last year. They are used as a tool for the under dog to try increase support for their cause.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

zack amin said:


> for people who are not intentionally targeting civvi's they seem to hit alot?


Hamas are known to use human shields.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

zack amin said:


> for people who are not intentionally targeting civvi's they seem to hit alot?


Accident's happen. Civilians die in all conflicts. The Israel government have held their hands up and said they've fvcked up on some of their targeting. Why is it unacceptable for Israel to kill civilians whether accidentally, or as I guess you suspect, intentionally, but OK for Hamas to do it intentionally? Do you agree that Hamas should target civilians?


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

this story is from Ariel Sharons Son, he was on channel 4 news tonight

http://www.salon.com/2012/11/19/ariel_sharons_son_says_flatten_all_of_gaza/


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> Accident's happen. Civilians die in all conflicts. The Israel government have held their hands up and said they've fvcked up on some of their targeting. Why is it unacceptable for Israel to kill civilians whether accidentally, or as I guess you suspect, intentionally, but OK for Hamas to do it intentionally? Do you agree that Hamas should target civilians?


No never, if you read my previous posts I do not condone killings off innocent people regardless of race religeon or whatever, its wrong and unethical, but to use your same argument against you, why is it ok for isreal to kill so many civillians hod there hands up apologise call it an accident then carry on and do the same again? Monday you kill a family sorry guys 'accidents happen' so tuesday wednesday and thursday you do the same? For people with some hi tech weaponry and armory they seem to have some sh1tty shooting,


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

barsnack said:


> this story is from Ariel Sharons Son, he was on channel 4 news tonight
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2012/11/19/ariel_sharons_son_says_flatten_all_of_gaza/


That is quite bad, but not really that surprising to be honest, and although he does makes some valid points, I don't think for one minute that the whole of Israel agrees with his stand point.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

zack amin said:


> No never, if you read my previous posts I do not condone killings off innocent people regardless of race religeon or whatever, its wrong and unethical, but to use your same argument against you, w*hy is it ok for isreal to kill so many civillians hod there hands up apologise call it an accident then carry on and do the same again? Monday you kill a family sorry guys 'accidents happen' so tuesday wednesday and thursday you do the same?* For people with some hi tech weaponry and armory they seem to have some sh1tty shooting,


Because Hamas keep launching rockets into civilian areas!!


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

wish israel would aim a rocket at johnny vegas, ruins every show


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> You just said **** my sources in your previous post.....now your open for discussion on them ?
> 
> Your linking from a Palastinian website....of course it's going to be biased. At least my sources were from a third party country, before you argue that US and UK sources are Jewish owned, biased and censored both the guardian and CNN are reporting over 100 Palastinian casualties. I'm guessing that's more than your website is saying for the things in Israel.
> 
> If you look into it I would bet Syria have a similar website and Lybians would have last year. They are used as a tool for the under dog to try increase support for their cause.


Of course there trying to raise support for there cause, there fcukin dieng,should they keep quite about it? Lol if isreal wasn't such a well founded and rich country I'm sure they'd be needing much more aid to! And I'm referring to your sources they same way you attested mine, biased source course its biased its an palestinian website lol that's the whole point, you want the truth go direct, there's references and quotes in there from palestinian newspapers also. Documented pictures names, time scales, I'm not there to witness but I'm happier getting updates from within the country then from a 3rd party source


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Marrsy86 said:


> You just said **** my sources in your previous post.....now your open for discussion on them ?
> 
> Your linking from a Palastinian website....of course it's going to be biased. At least my sources were from a third party country, before you argue that US and UK sources are Jewish owned, biased and censored both the guardian and CNN are reporting over 100 Palastinian casualties. I'm guessing that's more than your website is saying for the things in Israel.
> 
> If you look into it I would bet Syria have a similar website and Lybians would have last year. They are used as a tool for the under dog to try increase support for their cause.


Of course there trying to raise support for there cause, there fcukin dieng,should they keep quite about it? Lol if isreal wasn't such a well founded and rich country I'm sure they'd be needing much more aid to! And I'm referring to your sources they same way you attested mine, biased source course its biased its an palestinian website lol that's the whole point, you want the truth go direct, there's references and quotes in there from palestinian newspapers also. Documented pictures names, time scales, I'm not there to witness but I'm happier getting updates from within the country then from a 3rd party source


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> Because Hamas keep launching rockets into civilian areas!!


So your saying its ok for isreal to kill hundreds if not thousands more innocents because hamas have fired a few rockets in retaliation to there targets? Kind of an eye for an eye?

Hamas have wrong with targetting civvis, but how do you know they are, there guidance systems aren't top of the range, but I'd expect better from isreal, and tbh mike it does sound like your condonin the killing of thousands due to the killing of a few, and just so anybody reading this knows if it was the other way round, I'd still be condoning the killing off anyy inoccents


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

barsnack said:


> this story is from Ariel Sharons Son, he was on channel 4 news tonight
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2012/11/19/ariel_sharons_son_says_flatten_all_of_gaza/


Yea it was linked in the RT article.

I haven't read your link as I'm getting ready to go to bed now, i will try read it tomorrow though. Some of the stuff in the RT article was extreme but some of it did make sense from a strategic point of view.

The modern Israel and the rest of the Middle East is a work in progress. You have Israel artificially reinserted over there with new money surging into the Arab nations from oil so they think they are powerful.

The worst is yet to come and in my opinion NATO will be involved and we will side with Israel.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

apparantly there was talk israel wanted a ceasefire after a meeting with the Eyptian President...but it'll just delay the enivtable


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

That's my bedtime to, good night fellas, catch up after work tomorrow, no offence intended to anyone whom I debated with tonight, just convos.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

zack amin said:


> So your saying its ok for isreal to kill hundreds if not thousands more innocents because hamas have fired a few rockets in retaliation to there targets? Kind of an eye for an eye?
> 
> Hamas have wrong with targetting civvis, but how do you know they are, there guidance systems aren't top of the range, but I'd expect better from isreal, and tbh mike it does sound like your condonin the killing of thousands due to the killing of a few, and just so anybody reading this knows if it was the other way round, I'd still be condoning the killing off anyy inoccents


No that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that Israel are attacking Military/Hamas targets strategically in defence of the continued bombardment of their cities. Hamas have as good as admitted they're intentionally targeting civilians. Israel have already said that if Hamas stopped firing on civilians targets they would de-escalate. I'm not condoning the killing of civilians full stop (I've seen first hand the results of misplaced air-strikes and it is not something that I agree with at all) but Israel at least appear to be making an effort to minimise civilian casualties, Hamas are not.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

zack amin said:


> Of course there trying to raise support for there cause, there fcukin dieng,should they keep quite about it? Lol if isreal wasn't such a well founded and rich country I'm sure they'd be needing much more aid to! And I'm referring to your sources they same way you attested mine, biased source course its biased its an palestinian website lol that's the whole point, you want the truth go direct, there's references and quotes in there from palestinian newspapers also. Documented pictures names, time scales, I'm not there to witness but I'm happier getting updates from within the country then from a 3rd party source


Going direct rarely gets you the truth, it gets you propaganda.

They shouldent keep quiet, they should stop firing rockets, give intelligence as to where Hamas operatives are and when they will be most voundable with few to no civilians around them. They should be doing their absolute best to stand up to Hamas and get them to lose power so PLO can take over leadership and start peace talks with Israel again.

The problem with that part of the world in my opinion is a lot of their major states have been flooded with cash from oil so they have tried to move into the 21st century while maintaining their caveman traditions. If you look at UAE who are one of the states who have been a lot more open to western culture you can see they are flourishing while the ones who still stone innocent girls who have been raped as honour killings or try to murder young girls with special needs for damaging a book are falling to pieces.

They see what the west have and instantly want it. They fail to realise it has taken thousands of years for us to build up to what we are and we have had conflicts both foreign and domestic where our strength has been proven and forged.


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## Marrsy86 (Dec 13, 2011)

barsnack said:


> apparantly there was talk israel wanted a ceasefire after a meeting with the Eyptian President...but it'll just delay the enivtable


I just read that too. With any luck it will happen but I can see it all kicking off again soon.



zack amin said:


> That's my bedtime to, good night fellas, catch up after work tomorrow, no offence intended to anyone whom I debated with tonight, just convos.


Same here I have an early start tomorrow and have stayed up way past bed time talking here and catching up on boardwalk empire.

No offence taken and hope I haven't offended anyone either. This is probably the best none bodybuilding related topic I have been involved in on here.

Night all


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

zack amin said:


> Of course there trying to raise support for there cause, there fcukin dieng,should they keep quite about it? Lol if isreal wasn't such a well founded and rich country I'm sure they'd be needing much more aid to! And I'm referring to your sources they same way you attested mine, biased source course its biased its an palestinian website lol that's the whole point, you want the truth go direct, there's references and quotes in there from palestinian newspapers also. Documented pictures names, time scales, I'm not there to witness but I'm happier getting updates from within the country then from a 3rd party source


young Zac, they both want to live in the area, and both should. There's plenty of ****ty desert for all. I have friends who have emigrated to Israel, and live in some pretty crap settlements, yet are happy to do so.

You seem to forget, that while under Islamic Jihad, its perfectly acceptable to be a suicide bomber, its the only religion amontst the judeo-christian-muslim religions that has clerics proclaiming this is a religiously valid action...

Israel accepts the existance of palestinians, however, many islamic nations (Iran is a good example) have declared that Israel should be wiped of the face of the earth (as a few on here have so kindly stated too).

I would respectfully suggest that you learn from the words of @mikep81; he clearly has experience in the area and is obviously impartial (I'm a jew and hence not as impartial, but by the same token, I'm not a religious zionist, or ultra-orthodox. I've served both my country, Oz, and the country of my heritage, Israel, whereas many ultra-orthodox jews, and religious zionists escape military service- for religious reasons, yet rely on people like me, who most wouldn't even pick as a jew)

I guess my point is dont be so quick to support a "cause" that you really haven't lived under; I would respectfully suggest you go live in Gaza for a while, then your appraisal may be more realistic..

As a former soldier, I find it distasteful when people talk of the situation "kicking on" as its not a game, and unfortunately, by the very fact that Hamas act in a Guerilla manner, means civillian casualties are inevitable.

The problem with any conflict, is the desire for revenge for civillian casualties, this is a never ending vicious cycle that is very hard to break.

I don't know of any former IDF colleague who found service "rewarding" everyone I know found it disappointing, both that national service is still necessary in this day and age, and that people cannot just learn to live together..

I find Ghandi INSPIRATIONAL as I keep saying; its so disappointing that people still have conflict based on religion that is at the end of the day incredibly similar.

I highly recommend a book called "the history of god" it's written by an ex- catholic nun, and it traces the development of judaism, christianity and finally islam (well thats the order they developed).. after you read it, you think to yourself, WTF? how are we different???

here's the book:

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/A_History_Of_God.html?id=7J_vp4X28JAC&redir_esc=y


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

James s said:


> For the ill informed warmongers on the board who seem to parrot "hamas this and they did it first, if they didn't do this" go listen to some actual non-biased reports on who kicked off this latest one. Also some history might help the pro-zionist in you.
> 
> View attachment 101424


Marrsy has already quoted and linked information that goes back further than that report.


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## lxm (Jul 26, 2011)

Above comment... similar-so with the syria & FSA ...

Syria is a legit legal army of the syrian goverment.... the FSA is now a proxy of many countries who wants un-stability of the arab states.

If the UK population started refusing to pax taxes & bills... held mass protests weekly... didnt turn up for work... and a small % of islamic fundamentalists began to use deadly force against UK troops or police opressing the 'peaceful protestors' are you telling me than eventually after many losses the UK govt would not start using lethal force ? and then when these illegal proxy state forces began flooding the UK with weapons.. again the UK armed forces would not fight this 'uk free army' force ?

this is my view.. as a current public servant in an enforcable position within the UK

mike ? im looking for a good debate... but im up to scratch on the current position of the syrian army, and the FSA along with videos of current combat etc (or I like to think so)


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

lxm said:


> Above comment... similar-so with the syria & FSA ...
> 
> Syria is a legit legal army of the syrian goverment.... the FSA is now a proxy of many countries who wants un-stability of the arab states.
> 
> ...


yep that's an excellent point...

People seem to forget that people are still dying/fighting in Libya and Syria.... nothing to do with Israel...

why are the muslims killing/fighting the muslims???

politics? religion? does anyone even know?


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## lxm (Jul 26, 2011)

@ausbuilt check pm's.. about to send you one!


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

lxm said:


> Above comment... similar-so with the syria & FSA ...
> 
> Syria is a legit legal army of the syrian goverment.... the FSA is now a proxy of many countries who wants un-stability of the arab states.
> 
> ...


To be honest I've lost track with Libya and Syria recently but I do have contacts in Libya on jobs who have said that some parts are benefiting from the removal of Gaddaffi, but in the main it's turned into the wild west with Kangaroo courts being held for stupid sh!t while everybody fights to be the big dogs. I did read the other day as well that the CIA have intelligence that links Al Q to the consulate attack, so things are probably just going to get worse in Libya.

One thing I found during my time in Iraq, Afghan, Kuwait and Qatar is that generally, people are so quick to turn to violence to sort out their problems. Kids are beaten with sticks for fvcking up, people shot and mutilated for petty crimes and killed for other crimes, sometimes in a pretty brutal way. And I think that's the problem out there. Violence comes naturally to a majority of the people out in that region. We used to have incidents in Iraq where a guy would come out and shoot at us, so we'd return fire and kill him, only to be told by his family that he was just firing over our heads to show his anger at that coalition letting the power grid fail, or something equally as stupid. Most parts of the world would never turn to a gun to just vent frustration, especially at armed foreign troops. And a majority of the families that I know about involving incidents like this were pro coalition forces!

Personally I think it'll be way after my lifetime before there's ever complete peace in the Middle East!


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

ausbuilt said:



> young Zac, they both want to live in the area, and both should. There's plenty of ****ty desert for all. I have friends who have emigrated to Israel, and live in some pretty crap settlements, yet are happy to do so.
> 
> You seem to forget, that while under Islamic Jihad, its perfectly acceptable to be a suicide bomber, its the only religion amontst the judeo-christian-muslim religions that has clerics proclaiming this is a religiously valid action...
> 
> ...


Aus don't get me wrong, I'm all for everyone living in peace, equally tho, no blockades, no control, no high tech armory vs low tech, if that can happen I pray it happens, my friend I am not an palestinian, I have not grown up in war torn country, but that doesn't mean I can't support a cause which I feel is close to my heart, I've said many times I condemn the innocent killings of anybody, but the people of gaza and palestine havce had a ruff ordeal, so if I can make a tiny bit of difference, by supporting a charity, wearing a tshirt, or even talking openly on a public forum to make people aware off the 'accidental' killings of innocents, I know of a few jewish people I've worked for a few who don't reveal there jewish identity, no problem to me, fair play to you for coming out with it, and believe me I know the similarities between us, my gdad loves the local jewish butchers, lol I wish and I pray for peace but untill that happens I still have to stand up for a cause I believe in, because if we stand for nothing, we can fall for anything. I believe the quote is correct.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> yep that's an excellent point...
> 
> People seem to forget that people are still dying/fighting in Libya and Syria.... nothing to do with Israel...
> 
> ...


Yeah I know, stupidity.


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

I hope the Hamas leaders are overthrown and a peaceful solution can be found for both sides sake (especially the poor little kids caught up in all this ) .

I don't think life would be any better for the Palestinian people even if Hamas did "wipe Israel off the map".

I think the Hamas leaders are using the more recent Palestinian land argument as an excuse to get Muslim control in the area and wipe out the Jews .


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

@spike has negged me because he believe 'zoinism is the one true way' please enlighten us with your train of thought @spike


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

@spike has negged me because he believe 'zoinism is the one true way' please enlighten us with your train of thought @spike


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

zack amin said:


> @spike has negged me because he believe 'zoinism is the one true way' please enlighten us with your train of thought @spike


Then spike is no better than the Jihadi's.

He should neg me too, im a dirty Atheist.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> yep that's an excellent point...
> 
> People seem to forget that people are still dying/fighting in Libya and Syria.... nothing to do with Israel...
> 
> ...


Because their all convenient excuses to make $$$


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

I also find it hard to know what to believe with media footage . So much propaganda and biase on both sides .

I do know that a lot of Jews are becoming Christians or Messianic Jews because they don't wont to become part of a Zionist movement . More and more are coming to recognise Jesus as the saviour they didn't at 1st recognise , which may mean the battle for Israel isn't necessary for them .

It is the Jewish year 5772 and most Jews (especially the Ultra Orthadox ) expect the coming of their messiah by year 6000 . Time is ticking so retaining "their promised land " is very important to them .

@ Ausbuilt

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that as you will no doubt know more about that than me .


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> young Zac, *they both want to live in the area, and both should. There's plenty of ****ty desert for all*. I have friends who have emigrated to Israel, and live in some pretty crap settlements, yet are happy to do so.
> 
> You seem to forget, that while under Islamic Jihad, its perfectly acceptable to be a suicide bomber, its the only religion amontst the judeo-christian-muslim religions that has clerics proclaiming this is a religiously valid action...
> 
> ...


Highlighted bold I totally agree with you. Its a pity as im sure a solution can be peacfully derived but unfortunately its not that simple in the world of politics.

Your right about the suicide bombings being allowed, this is by the minority clerics and clerics of no high authority in the Islamic world. Like with everything, they have bent the rules to suit the situation, when clearly it is forbidden to commit suicide for ANY reason let alone to defend land.

I cant see this ending anytime soon.


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> yep that's an excellent point...
> 
> People seem to forget that people are still dying/fighting in Libya and Syria.... nothing to do with Israel...
> 
> ...


Bit of everything!

Crazy world.


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## Mighty.Panda (Oct 5, 2011)

Not been keeping up with this thread. But has anyone heard there's a ceasefire going into effect tonight? May have been on the news already. Good news at least..... Ceasefires are the best we can ever hope for over there.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

That link Rich provided is sickening, if those quotes were from muslims they'd be labelled 'terrorists'.

Lets hope this ceasefire works dont think i can bare to see little children coverd in blood with their mothers crying over them no longer.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

zack amin said:


> @spike has negged me because he believe 'zoinism is the one true way' please enlighten us with your train of thought @spike


Zionism is a funny thing. There are religious Zionists, who where desperate for a modern Israel, then there are ultra-orthodox religious NON-Zionists- because they believe only G-D can re-instate the state of Israel, not man...

For a very minority religion (not helped by the holocaust wiping out half), there are more splinter groups/factions in judaism than the average person suspects- trying to get a group of jews to agree on a course of action, especially in terms of politics and religion, is akin to herding cats :lol: Every f**Ker thinks he's smarter than the next f**Ker..

The only saving grace, and one of the reasons I'm still proud of my heritage is, despite the massive differences of opinion, Jews basically don't physically fight each other- its all a war of words, which in my mind is how it should be in civilised society- everyone should be able to voice an opinion, but not physically impact on anyone.

So Spike may be well intentioned, and it is nice to see something other than a majority pro-palestinian view (nothing wrong with that, was a bit one sided on here to start with thats all), not all Jews are Zionists; but on the other hand, they do deserve to call somewhere home, no?



XRichHx said:


> Then spike is no better than the Jihadi's.
> 
> He should neg me too, im a dirty Atheist.


I often think I view my judaism as a cultural thing rather than a religious thing-something that preserved jewish bonds across the diaspora before the modern state of Israel existed in 1948; however, the truth is, I may not be religious, but I do believe in G-D, mostly because when the $hit hits the fan, I always start muttering under my breath "G-D if you get me out of this mess, I will never, ever do X,Y & Z again..." :lol:

so I'd be hippocritical as an atheist.... despite its rational appeal (and especially since I'm so anti-bro science!)... but I'm in the $hit often... and end up praying.. :lol:



DeadpoolX said:


> I also find it hard to know what to believe with media footage . So much propaganda and biase on both sides .
> 
> I do know that a lot of Jews are becoming Christians or Messianic Jews because they don't wont to become part of a Zionist movement . More and more are coming to recognise Jesus as the saviour they didn't at 1st recognise , which may mean the battle for Israel isn't necessary for them .
> 
> ...


I think it would be fairer to say there's 1000s of variations of Judaism....

back in Sydney there was even a store front for "jews for jesus" but I thought they where misguided...

religion is a funny thing- if you read the book I noted in a previous post, you realise the differences are piddling in reality...

When it comes to the "2nd coming" of the messiah (for christians) or the 1st coming (for jews), while the clock may be ticking, I used to work in a small private equity firm, where all the males where jewish.. I remember this conversation between the head partner, and his secretary:

Secretary: Mr X is on the phone, he urgently needs to speak with you

Partner: tell him I'm busy, and I'll call him back

Secretary: he's asking when?

Partner: when the Messiah comes....

I think thats a fair comment on most peoples expectations on that front.... its not considered reality by normal people.....


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

A soldier has just been killed by a rocket so it seems hamas are making the most of it before and if a cease fire comes onto place..


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> Zionism is a funny thing. There are religious Zionists, who where desperate for a modern Israel, then there are ultra-orthodox religious NON-Zionists- because they believe only G-D can re-instate the state of Israel, not man...
> 
> For a very minority religion (not helped by the holocaust wiping out half), there are more splinter groups/factions in judaism than the average person suspects- trying to get a group of jews to agree on a course of action, especially in terms of politics and religion, is akin to herding cats :lol: Every f**Ker thinks he's smarter than the next f**Ker..
> 
> ...


Aus thats a great post mate and the way you have kept your dignity in this thread is something we can all learn from, big respect to ya fella and i hope any family you have out there are safe and sound! :thumbup1:


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## RockyD (Oct 8, 2012)

That people are actually trying to argue that Israel has some kind of moral high ground just shows how powerful western media is.

The fact that since 1967 Israel has bulldozed tens of thousands of Palestinian homes and ran the inhabitants off the land is conveniently overlooked when our media labels Hamas as terrorists for apparently targeting civilians.

Israel has also moved more than half a million of it's own civilian population into the occupied territories in contravention of the 4th Geneva Convention. The International Court of Justice states that Israeli settlements are illegal. The UN has targeted Israel with 60 odd resolutions condemning them for the building of settlements and for their general inhumane treatment of Palestinians. Not a single nation on earth recognises the legitimacy of Israel's settlements.

So if Israel totally disregards the UN Security Council, International Law, the Geneva Conventions, why does anyone expect Hamas to follow any sort of code of conduct?

Whichever way you spin it Israel is the aggressor.

The only way I see an end to it is if and when enough people in the west start waking up to what is really going on, and like with apartheid South Africa enough pressure is put on our governments to isolate Israel economically and politically from the rest of the international community.


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## BoxerJay (Jan 11, 2011)

Israel have spent the last gazzilion years knocking and having the sh*t knocked out of them, they are a country built on conflict and definitely not one to pi*s off.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

RockyD said:


> That people are actually trying to argue that Israel has some kind of moral high ground just shows how powerful western media is.
> 
> The fact that since 1967 Israel has bulldozed tens of thousands of Palestinian homes and ran the inhabitants off the land is conveniently overlooked when our media labels Hamas as terrorists for apparently targeting civilians.
> 
> ...


well said


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have nothing against Israel what i do have something against is them killing innocent children and justifying by saying hamas terrorist are potently using that building ? :confused1:


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

Considering the size of Military force Israel has compared to the Palestines....Its equivalent to taking a rpg to a fly...

Israel is using artillery and just blowing everything and anyone up (I do believe we sold them these weapons as well) and getting bombed by modern day artillery certainly isnt something you want to be standing in... Also we have the Americans saying they back Israel surely this is out right over kill? If there was specific Insurgents (terrorists) then isn't foot soldiers the way to go about it? Rather than bombing the **** out of refugees?

I've seen a few too many pictures and to be honest it looks like the end of the world with the bombings and artillery fire.

Israel has been on the offensive for years, So for the people of gaza now fighting back(with small arms fire) who can blame them seriously? Wouldn't you do the same if some dominant military force was invading your home and slaughtering women & children..

End of its genocide....

First there was Iraq then Libya now Gaza...


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

RockyD said:


> That people are actually trying to argue that Israel has some kind of moral high ground just shows how powerful western media is.
> 
> The fact that since 1967 Israel has bulldozed tens of thousands of Palestinian homes and ran the inhabitants off the land is conveniently overlooked when our media labels Hamas as terrorists for apparently targeting civilians.
> 
> ...


This is the basic problem mate, alot of people havnt a clue and dont research things for themselves and are just driven into thinking what the western based media outlets want them to.

Quality post btw.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

squalllion1uk said:


> Considering the size of Military force Israel has compared to the Palestines....Its equivalent to taking a rpg to a fly...
> 
> Israel is using artillery and just blowing everything and anyone up (I do believe we sold them these weapons as well) and getting bombed by modern day artillery certainly isnt something you want to be standing in... Also we have the Americans saying they back Israel surely this is out right over kill? If there was specific Insurgents (terrorists) then isn't foot soldiers the way to go about it? Rather than bombing the **** out of refugees?
> 
> ...


Um, Iran and other Islamic countries support the Palestinians, and Iran has stated a desire to use nuclear arms to wipe out Israel (don't know how they will do this and not affect the Palestinians...)

By the way, what has Israel got to do with Iraq? and Libya????


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BoxerJay said:


> Israel have spent the last gazzilion years knocking and having the sh*t knocked out of them, they are a country built on conflict and definitely not one to pi*s off.


in modern history, first Hitler, now Iran and some other extremists have, as POLICY set out the intention for the destruction of Israel and the jewish people, who are one of the worlds true minorities...

its not about not pi$$ing them of, they just don't want to "wiped of the face of the earth" as even a few here have so proudly stated.. :crying:


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> Um, Iran and other Islamic countries support the Palestinians, and Iran has stated a desire to use nuclear arms to wipe out Israel (don't know how they will do this and not affect the Palestinians...)
> 
> By the way, what has Israel got to do with Iraq? and Libya????


http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/iraqwar.shtml

It is well known that Israel have heavy influence in the U.S goverment.


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> Um, Iran and other Islamic countries support the Palestinians, and Iran has stated a desire to use nuclear arms to wipe out Israel (don't know how they will do this and not affect the Palestinians...)
> 
> By the way, what has Israel got to do with Iraq? and Libya????


They may have the "support" but that doesnt stop the bombing that go on at this very moment so talk is cheap...Plus last time I checked Iran were still a fair bit away from actually having weapons grade plutonium. For one I'm not slating jewish people but rather their government..

Not a lot really to do with them just in general things seem to becoming increasingly more dangerous and hostile in the middle east as such. Its a sad state of affairs.


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

M4rsey you seem to be getting your facts online?

My auntie who lived there for many many years since child hood from first hand experience seen many things that was inhumane.

Your saying Israel only targets non civillians? :/ did you hear about the grenade thrown in a class at a girl school maming and killing? No course not as if they'd put that online?

She was at a house when soldiers bursted in took her nephew , his dad and brother to the mountains and proceeded to break their arms and kness with huge rocks

You remember that famous video captured by a French reporter when the father was protecting his son surrounding by soldiers??!!

http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/sniper.html

How can you say the soldiers don't target civilians? Not long ago israeli police and souldiers had beaten up young palestions kids just for the sake of it?? While a palestian woman saved the lives of 4 Israeli kids?

You not heard about them bull dozing houses when it's still occupied by families crushing them?

Or the woman walking past a soldier with her child then he strikes the child in the eye blinding her?

Or the soldiers taking boys then cutting their fingers ?

Or the father denied to go to Egypt to save his son's life?

But off course Israel are innocent and only targets non civilians?? You'll probably jump on google and not finding the info then think " hmmm it's not online so it surly can't be true"

You need to meet my aunt and talk, she'll show and tell you things that would amaze you. Remember they only put on the media what they want you to hear and see.


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

This rally happened on the 15th of nov. You have the "lefties" wanting peace. The prime minister says his piece also.


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## shieldsy (Jan 22, 2010)

squalllion1uk said:


> Considering the size of Military force Israel has compared to the Palestines....Its equivalent to taking a rpg to a fly...
> 
> Israel is using artillery and just blowing everything and anyone up (I do believe we sold them these weapons as well) and getting bombed by modern day artillery certainly isnt something you want to be standing in... Also we have the Americans saying they back Israel surely this is out right over kill? If there was specific Insurgents (terrorists) then isn't foot soldiers the way to go about it? Rather than bombing the **** out of refugees?
> 
> ...


I dont know how you can say that the Palestinians are fighting with small arms fire, they were firing rockets at jerusalem which was over 50 miles away? That's a hell of a long way for small arms fire.


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

shieldsy said:


> I dont know how you can say that the Palestinians are fighting with small arms fire, they were firing rockets at jerusalem which was over 50 miles away? That's a hell of a long way for small arms fire.


Did you see the damage that was left by the "rockets" that started off this little skirmish? I did ... And In comparison I seen some scorched tarmac...Compared to Gaza where there was a smoldering crater. In relative comparison sure small arms fire may not be the correct word.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

squalllion1uk said:


> Did you see the damage that was left by the "rockets" that started off this little skirmish? I did ... And In comparison I seen some scorched tarmac...Compared to Gaza where there was a smoldering crater. In relative comparison sure small arms fire may not be the correct word.


So dont fire at israel surely??

Just been listening to a journalist who has spent a lot of time in Gaza and to cut a long story short he says since Hamas has taken over the palestinians are burying a lot more dead due to their aggressive actions towards Israel.

He wasnt a supporter of either but he reckoned that all the while Hamas are in charge a ceasefire will never last as they are always looking to break it, they dont want peace they want Israel dead!

They need a more moderate people to sit round the table with Israel to get anywhere


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

lukeee said:


> So dont fire at israel surely??
> 
> Just been listening to a journalist who has spent a lot of time in Gaza and to cut a long story short he says since Hamas has taken over the palestinians are burying a lot more dead due to their aggressive actions towards Israel.
> 
> ...


No offense but from what I see thats BS, As from yesterday the reports went along the lines of:

Hamas official Ayman Taha says Israel, Gaza militants agree to Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, to go into effect at 2200 GMT

Then:

Update: Israel not agreeing to ceasefire until after Clintons meetings tomorrow, maybe. Meanwhile, reports coming out of Gaza tell us that the bombardment of Gaza has intensified..

Israel were the ones who refused a ceasefire not the other way about, then proceeded to intensity the bombing...sure sounds like a peace loving government...

So how about Israel stop taking land that doesnt belong to them and treating the Palestine people like animals? You expect to treat people like that and not expect a violent reaction ? That would be absurd!

Also Hamas doesnt cover ever single person in there...If they really wanted to kill these apparent specific people then thats what ground troops are for tactical insertion not bloody broad spectrum of bloody bombs all over the place!

At the end of it all This is a reaction due to the way Israel government has treated these people. No one is born evil or aggresive etc This is a reaction and the root problem being the way these people have been treated . Again I'm not slandering the Israel people


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

squalllion1uk said:


> No offense but from what I see thats BS, As from yesterday the reports went along the lines of:
> 
> Hamas official Ayman Taha says Israel, Gaza militants agree to Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, to go into effect at 2200 GMT
> 
> ...


And you think Hamas would stick to it do you? and no offence mate but are any of us privvy to the ceasefire details? whose to say they were fair? none of us know and lets face it this is gunna drag on and on and on, both sides need to change but at the moment neither seem prepared to do so


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

This thread is starting to go around in circles...


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

squalllion1uk said:


> Did you see the damage that was left by the "rockets" that started off this little skirmish? I did ... And In comparison I seen some scorched tarmac...Compared to Gaza where there was a smoldering crater. In relative comparison sure small arms fire may not be the correct word.


To get a little geeky, the difference between a scorched bit of Tarmac and a little crater is just fuse timings. A lot of fuses on rockets and mortars have either a super quick setting (does more damage in an open area because the round doesn't have time to bury before it goes off. Basically it explodes as soon as it impacts so all the shrapnel can travel through the air and is used for open areas etc) or a delayed setting (does less damage because the round has time to bury upon impact so a lot of the kinetic energy of the blast is absorbed by the ground creating a crater. Basically it explodes a second after impact and is used for woodland area's were you want the rocket going off at ground level and not in the tops of trees). Using super quick (the scorched tarmac one) is more effective and is what I would use.


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

mixerD1 said:


> This thread is starting to go around in circles...


Just like the conflict, we can discuss till were blue in the face but nothing will change. Look how long its been goign on for, both sides will feel hard done by and always be disagreement. The peopel I feel sorry for are the innocents, who are loosing their lives, many being women and children.


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

lukeee said:


> And you think Hamas would stick to it do you? and no offence mate but are any of us privvy to the ceasefire details? whose to say they were fair? none of us know and lets face it this is gunna drag on and on and on, both sides need to change but at the moment neither seem prepared to do so


I agree mate...But first someones gotta stop, If you stab a bull you cant expect it not to react. I'm not condoning either side but Israel has been at this all for a long time sadly...But as Its been said they take no Heed from Geneva convention or the UN etc. So maybe Israel being the bigger power should be the one to walk away as it were.

From the details I gathered Hamas wants the blockade to be lifted (which shouldnt be there in the first place) and the Bombings to stop.


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

squalllion1uk said:


> I agree mate...But first someones gotta stop, If you stab a bull you cant expect it not to react. I'm not condoning either side but Israel has been at this all for a long time sadly...But as Its been said they take no Heed from Geneva convention or the UN etc. So maybe Israel being the bigger power should be the one to walk away as it were.
> 
> From the details I gathered Hamas wants the blockade to be lifted (which shouldnt be there in the first place) and the Bombings to stop.


The key difference is Israel broke these coneventions, bulldozed areas etc was their uproar in the world of politics?

Imagine if it was the other way round.

Israel claim their are being attacked, the US\UK come out and say they have right to defend their country (not argueing against that fact but see the double standards)


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

The way I see it, is from the point of questions. Why was there no uproar? There must be something for these other countries to be gained from it or they are scared ? We were quick enough to intervene else where no?

If you beat a dog for years then one day it snaps and bites you, then the dog is in the wrong?


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

squalllion1uk said:


> The way I see it, is from the point of questions. Why was there no uproar? There must be something for these other countries to be gained from it or they are scared ? We were quick enough to intervene else where no?
> 
> If you beat a dog for years then one day it snaps and bites you, then the dog is in the wrong?


Agreed, but the Jewish have been that dog more than most


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Imy79 said:


> The key difference is Israel broke these coneventions, bulldozed areas etc was their uproar in the world of politics?
> 
> Imagine if it was the other way round.
> 
> Israel claim their are being attacked, the US\UK come out and say they have right to defend their country (not argueing against that fact but see the double standards)


Great post, i bet the majority of people in this thread didnt know about Israel breaking international law, but hey its not reported in The Sun so who can blame them.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Mr_Morocco said:


> Great post, i bet the majority of people in this thread didnt know about Israel breaking international law, but hey its not reported in The Sun so who can blame them.


You get the sun then?


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## Imy79 (Oct 19, 2007)

lukeee said:


> You get the sun then?


Cheeky


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Difference between the two sides.

Palestinians dance in the street, celebrating when Israeli civilians are killed or injured. Did it when the kids were shot up in that school a couple of years back and they're doing it now with the bombing of a bus in Tel Aviv today.

Israelis don't celebrate when Palestinians are killed or injured.

I know which side has the moral high ground there.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> Difference between the two sides.
> 
> Palestinians dance in the street, celebrating when Israeli civilians are killed or injured. Did it when the kids were shot up in that school a couple of years back and they're doing it now with the bombing of a bus in Tel Aviv today.
> 
> ...


Whats your source for that info ?


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Just seen it on the news


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Mr_Morocco said:


> Whats your source for that info ?


One report from the BBC below:



> Paul Danahar BBC News, Gaza
> 
> tweets: celebratory gunfire going off in Gaza after bus reports of bus attack in Tel Aviv


Thing is, the Israelis might be killing civilians but they claim that they try to avoid it. There's no doubt that they drop leaflets telling people to get out before the area they're in is bombed.

The missiles Hamas have been sending over have been hitting civilian areas but they've managed to get away with claims that they're deliberately targeting them because the missiles are low tech. But bombing a civilian bus and claiming it as a success? That's left them wide open to retaliation.



> 1116:
> 
> The Hamas-run Al-Aqsa TV station says that "Hamas welcomes the martyrdom operation and stresses that it is a natural response to the massacring of the Al-Dalu family and the targeting of Palestinian citizens," as seen by BBC Monitoring.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Israel call ceasefire....Hamas leader supposedly dead.


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## RockyD (Oct 8, 2012)

zack amin said:


> @spike has negged me because he believe 'zoinism is the one true way' please enlighten us with your train of thought @spike


LOL You're not the only one he's negged me twice on this thread!

Although opinion has differed greatly here, it has mostly been quite respectful. Think the guy needs to grow up a bit considering he's apparently 50!


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

RockyD said:


> LOL You're not the only one he's negged me twice on this thread!
> 
> Although opinion has differed greatly here, it has mostly been quite respectful. Think the guy needs to grow up a bit considering he's apparently 50!


dont wurry brother ill bring you back to green, im also going to hunt him and neg him


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## RockyD (Oct 8, 2012)

zack amin said:


> dont wurry brother ill bring you back to green, im also going to hunt him and neg him


Haha cheers bro, seems his reps are quite potent, as had 4 good reps and 2 bad from him and still in the red! lol

Never mind the red matches my avi! lol


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Ive forgotten what reps feel like no fvcker ever reps me! Maybe I'm just a cvnt?

In regards to this thread, Why, given their massive wealth and resources have the Israeli's not just assassinated the leader of Hamas? Who are terrorists from what I read?

Or do you guys think that would cause even more violence by making him a martyr?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Ive forgotten what reps feel like no fvcker ever reps me! Maybe I'm just a cvnt?
> 
> In regards to this thread, Why, given their massive wealth and resources have the Israeli's not just assassinated the leader of Hamas? Who are terrorists from what I read?
> 
> Or do you guys think that would cause even more violence by making him a martyr?


Wait till you see what happens when they finish the autopsy of yasser Arafat. If they discover he was poisoned they'll blame Israel on an assassination and rocket some more.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

XRichHx said:


> Wait till you see what happens when they finish the autopsy of yasser Arafat. If they discover he was poisoned they'll blame Israel on an assassination and rocket some more.


If they discover he was poisoned? Behave, more like when they do.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

They are doing what????


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## Deeboy (Dec 1, 2007)

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=20492


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