# Who has actually tried German Volume Training?



## Heineken

*Have you tried GVT*​
Yes, rate it 6931.80%Yes, do not rate it 177.83%No 3717.05%No, but interested9443.32%


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## Heineken

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/training-articles/33176-german-high-volume-training-10-x-10-a.html

I've been flirting with the idea for a while and I'm looking for a routine for the rebound after my cut.. the gym will be quiet during the summer too as all the students f*ck off home :lol:

Ideal time to try it out really due to the super-setting and availability of equipment, this is just a quick poll really to see who's tried it. If you have, could you take the time to maybe post your experiences with it, progress you made, just general experiences with it.

Cheers :beer:


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## B-GJOE

Not interested in anything that has the word 'Volume' in the title, never read anything about it and don't intend to. I prefer workouts with the word intensity in the title. I like to get in, do the work and get the hell out to eat and grow.


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## simonj

Yes, I've used it. Not extensively though. I suppose it depends on your personal definition of 'intensity' but, for me, 10 sets of 10 squats with 1minute rest between sets is pretty intense. (I'm assuming that's what is on the link - haven't read it)

I've used it for squats and deadlifts. I was doing a 5x5, 6x4, 7x3. 8x2, singles programme and would use the 10x10 at certain points. It's difficult to attribute any gains specifically to GVT, but I certainly gained in that period.

I'm pretty sure the aim of GVT is neurological adaptation; I certainly felt able to cope with higher volume after doing it. I also felt I pushed myself more in other sets away from GVT (the latter middle sets in GVT are pretty tough and remind you what you're capable of).


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## glanzav

volume training is a killer

with a abscess on one are and cast on another

been doing very light weights and repping for 30 reps totally out of the norm and the burn is horrible


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## craftybutcher

Reminds me of this


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## B-GJOE

flanagan said:


> Reminds me of this


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb:


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## Heineken

That vid cracks me up :lol:

Thank you for the responses so far.. kinda haha


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## Heineken

B|GJOE said:


> Not interested in anything that has the word 'Volume' in the title, never read anything about it and don't intend to. I prefer workouts with the word intensity in the title. I like to get in, do the work and get the hell out to eat and grow.


Perhaps you could give the link a read and let me know what you think then mate? I would value your input


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## a.notherguy

i tried it - although only for a few weeks and i rate it. I felt it in all the right places and the pump was good.

however,

i gave it up as im still a weakling and the only thing i didnt like about it was that i had to significantly lower the weights i was using and that didnt sit well with me as i have spent the last couple of years building up to a semi repsectable strength level (for me at least lol) and didnt like dropping back down again.

its something i am defo gonna be going back to - prob for the summer.


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## Heineken

Thanks mate!

I know what you mean about dropping the weight, I've done heavy work since Jan and switching to 3x10 etc now for a couple of months.. I've had to drop everything down by quite a bit :lol:


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## Fragjuice

I've used it to get growth in lagging muscles before, and it does work - something to try if nothing else works i'd say


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## Heineken

Thanks mate. Which particular muscles?

Bump!


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## cellaratt

I know a banned member named Wogi use to swear by it...I've not tried it myself but would be willing to give it a go...


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## BennyC

I did this last summer.

It's really not for the feint hearted. It's more of a mental challenge than physical. Each 4 second negatives is grueling. Especially come the 5th/6th set. There's that point when you have to differentiate from when you're tired and want to give up on the rep and when your muscles are tired. Also 10 weeks is an incredibly long time to be doing the same thing, despite changing from flat to incline half way through and different stances/grips etc. I was very glad to have finished it!

I put on some good size and my endurance, obviously, went through the roof. I didn't really make any strength gains but it's not suprising. You do get incredibly pumped and the whole experience I found quite humbling. I began to see form in a whole new light and realised that heavy loads aren't always everything.

My joints & tendons did begin to ache after a while and the DOMS were INSANE. I followed it as closely as I could but had to make allowances for the equipment at the gym. Where I couldn't superset I just did 10 straight sets with a shorter rest period.

The primary exercises 10 supersets takes 30 minutes to complete! it's quite aerobic at points. Ideally you need spot, no forced reps though, but you still need to take the weight down for the negative and then just get 'rescued' and helped into the second part of the superset if need be (e.g. de racking oly bar for rows after benching)

Give Advanced German Volume Training a look at too as that looks like the better packages for both size & strength. Planning on doing this myself sometime in the summer.


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## Heineken

Cheers for that detailed post fella!

I am dreading 10x10 squats, but at the same time looking forward to it. I have trained low volume since Jan and recently switched to higher for a change and 3x10 squat's are a killer as it is, 10x10 just seem's insane! Not sure if I'll manage all 10 weeks either, but I don't want to put that mental block there before I've even started, so less talk about that..

What was your diet like for that training cycle? Did you change anything at all?


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## BennyC

Heineken said:


> Cheers for that detailed post fella!
> 
> I am dreading 10x10 squats, but at the same time looking forward to it. I have trained low volume since Jan and recently switched to higher for a change and 3x10 squat's are a killer as it is, 10x10 just seem's insane! Not sure if I'll manage all 10 weeks either, but I don't want to put that mental block there before I've even started, so less talk about that..
> 
> What was your diet like for that training cycle? Did you change anything at all?


It doesn't matter if you don't get all 10 reps out for all 10 sets you should begin to fall short around the 4th set. You might see your set rep count go something like:

10,10,10,9,8,8,7,8,6,5

It's not uncommon for it to go down, up, then down again. As long as you give it your everything for maximum fatigue & recruitment you'll be fine. I didn't really progress much in terms of weights used, well not significant amounts but I wasn't expecting to. Each set should take you 60 seconds assuming you spend 1-2 seconds on concentrics.

I find with a slower negative you actually get longer to recover between each eccentric phase though the transistion to concentric becomes difficult with lactate build up!

Squats should be supersetted with SLDL  I couldn't do this to a) never having SLDL before (love them now though) and B) we only have one oly bar & had to squat on a smith :sad: so straight sets with 60 second rests followed by leg curls *shudder*.

Hard to recall my diet as I was at home from uni for the summer. It wasn't bad but I think volume of food could have been much better. My diets now ALOT better so will be giving AGVT a pop over summer.

Just eat, eat, eat like an animal. I don't think keeping carbs low is advisable due to the sheer intensity & energy required. Just eat well and lots. It's quite calorific in itself.

And for the love of God stretch out, I wasn't accustomed to stretching back then (bit of a n00b) and DOMS were crippling. I was temping behind a desk which was lucky as walking became very difficult. Calves & hamstrings so tight straightening my legs became tough.

Big pumps though, stretch marks shot a good inch.

Also cable flyes after 10 sets of bench actually felt like my pecs were being ripped clean off my chest. Anybody that has survived the 10 weeks gets alot of respect from me. Alot of people under estimate not only how hard slow negatives are, let alone supersetted for 10 sets and 10 weeks.


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## B-GJOE

Heineken said:


> Perhaps you could give the link a read and let me know what you think then mate? I would value your input


Actually having read it, it's not that much volume compared to what a lot of trainers do nowadays. I often see people doing 24 sets for chest etc etc. I guess it was the name that put me off, because in actuality it is very similar to the way I train. For example on Sunday just past I did the following on Leg Press

300kg 17 Reps 4-0-2 Tempo

Rest 30 Seconds

300kg 8 Reps

Rest 20 seconds

280kg 7 Reps

Rest 20 seconds

280kg 5 Reps

Rest 20 seconds

260kg 7 Reps

Rest 20 seconds

260kg 6 Reps

I did similar on Leg Extensions and Hack Squat

So ironically it is not too disimilar to what I am currently doing.

I am a big advocate of short rest periods.

The differences with the way I am currently training is:

1. Shorter Rest Periods

2. Each part of the set I go to positive failure, unlike GVT where the first few sets are relatively easy.

3. I only do 6 sets with each exercise

4. I drop weight - Maybe necessary due to the very short rest periods.


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## testman

im guessing this is the kinda thing arnold used to do? I remember that pumping iron film and him doing high reps


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## The Oak 2009

Ye tried it before but didn't really rate it too highly. Firstly, because it is pretty boring doing set after set of the same exercise at the same weight for the same amount of reps. Secondly, like BIGJOE said the first 5-6 sets are actually pretty easy so in some ways you feel like you are wasting the start of your workout when you feel freshest and most energised and strong doing weights that are too light for you. Thirdly, unless you train at strange times you will probably fcuk people off spending 35 mins in the squat rack (I know it would fcuk me off if I was waiting to do a few sets of squats).

I think the thing that I liked the least about it though was using such a low weight for set after set and not feeling like it was heavy until the last 3 or 4 sets. I recently found a good variation of GVT used it and really liked it. Basically its like a cross between GVT and rest/pause sets. E.G Incline Bench 3 sets. Rep scheme goes 2 reps then 10 seconds rest, 3 reps then 10 seconds rest, 5 reps then 10 seconds rest, 10 reps and then that is 1 set. Effectively it means you are doing 20 reps per set but can go heavier than you would on GVT, so all sets feel worthwhile. So all in all if you do 3 sets you would be doing 60 reps with a relatively heavy weight, rather than 100 reps with a light weight. And its a lot quicker than 10x10. The exercises I used it for were Incline Bench, Military press and the Hack Squat.


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## james12345

tried it for chest once, didnt like it, found it boring to be honest, wouldnt do it if it did give alot of results i doubt id do it, my body responds better to higher weight and less sets and i like to be in the gym and out, still worth a try if youve plateau'd though


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## big gun

Tried this out many years ago after seeing it in one of Michael Philips EAS supplement review books. Effective but exhausting. Ended up in casualty one time after applying it to deadlifts and losing my vision completely. Apparently it was a massive increase in blood pressure due to weight and lack of recovery time.Eyesight came back after about an hour, but brought with it the worlds biggest migraine!


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## Heineken

Probably why dead's aren't listed on the routine... lol


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## big gun

They were in the copy I had, but on reflection they probably aren't ideal tho! Seem to remember being mega hungry on this routine and put on a good bit of muscle, once I left out the deads of course.


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## jjmac

GVT was the only training that ever got me sweating as much as a 5 min MMA match, i was panting and breathing like fook, especially on the squats!

i did the whole 6 week program and noticed no visible change, apart from being a tad more vascular (from the insane pumps and high reps), however my recovery ability between sets is a lot better than it was before and i can push the same weight more consistantly for more reps now, however for some weird reason this doesnt translate into me lifting heavier weights???

all in all its a good program to give you a break from the usual '3 x8-12'.

just dont be too optemistic on your starting weights, i thought 90kg on bench sounded pi55 easy (i was doing 120 for 10) but you are doing 10 sets of 10 remember, and mine were as a superset with pullups..... so 70kg ended up being more than enough!


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## tuna_man

I tried it and believe it does cause gains, especially if you are at a plateau with normal training. However its not great for strength (but maybe good for gains).

I think it works fantastic for legs, 10x 10 squats ass to grass, then 10x10 seated hamstring curls, your legs will blow up and the pump is ridiculous, but you MUST be on your next set after 1min rest is up.

Also, GVT allows you to increase the stores of energy etc in your muscles, and their buffering capacity and blood supply/capillaries, so it will help in the long run when doing more conventional strength training.


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## 54und3r5

Gvt is good for a small stretch of 4-6 weeks - I recommend it highly for legs!


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## SiPhil

I've switched to GVT and absolutely love it. No worries about injury from going heavy or worrying about not having a spotter (train at home). It's also a good substitute for regular cardio work, which I can't stand doing.

Can honestly say the day after I work a set of muscles I feel far more worked than if I had done a number of warmup sets then a few working heavy sets. Only downside is the time it takes and how exhausted I am, can run out of steam before finishing routine, so will be training 7 days a week to hit everything twice. Maybe after a few more weeks I'll start burning out or overtraining (on a gram of sust right now so maybe not), but enjoying it a lot despite the intense pain. If I can keep it up this will be how I train constantly.


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## Xtrainer

I love GVT and alternate it with a 5x5 quite regularly. The only thing for me is that sleep, and food had to be bob on, or I would hold DOMS for days :-( You need time to sort a good recovery plan to get the best hypertrophy out of the training.


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## najybomb

gvt is an interesting training system. and i believe the original system is just ten by ten. with exactly sixty seconds rest between sets, this is only on the compound movement, after the hundred reps in total you then move to a complimentary isolation exersice for two to three sets of twelve to fifteen. the theory behind is the larger muscle gets the volume and the work and has a larger potential for muscle growth because your not doing massive amounts of other exersices. so youd say for chest choose flat bench with incline flyes as the complementary exersice.

your supposed to try the ten by ten with a weight that is sixty percent of your one rep max. and you shouldnt be able to do to all of the sets to the full reps either, you should get to the fourth set and then start getting nines eights and sevens afterwards. its a good training system once you get the full ten for ten, you up it by five percent. and so on so forth.


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## CoffeeFiend

Heineken said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/training-articles/33176-german-high-volume-training-10-x-10-a.html
> 
> I've been flirting with the idea for a while and I'm looking for a routine for the rebound after my cut.. the gym will be quiet during the summer too as all the students f*ck off home :lol:
> 
> Ideal time to try it out really due to the super-setting and availability of equipment, this is just a quick poll really to see who's tried it. If you have, could you take the time to maybe post your experiences with it, progress you made, just general experiences with it.
> 
> Cheers :beer:


Students rock we get a discount


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## JuicedUK

Would this not be considered similar to pyramiding.

For example i often do 4 sets X 10 of the max i can lift then do another 3 sets of 10 on a lower weight then a final couple of sets an even lower weight.

So basically im still doing 10x10 but instead of starting on an lighter weight and waiting for it to become more difficult im doin the same sets/reps but keeping it difficult throughout by adapting the weight throughout.

Would this not be a better approach as your reaching fatigue in every set?

Please correct me if im wrong here. Its just seems to make more sense to me.


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## C19H28O2

I incorporate higher reps into my workout program, but 10x10 is too much IMO.. I do 20,16,12, final set to failure including forced reps.. works out about 60 reps in total rather than 100.

Only do this for 3 weeks of my 12 week workout program, but i think i benefit from it


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## C19H28O2

JuicedUK said:


> Would this not be considered similar to pyramiding.
> 
> For example i often do 4 sets X 10 of the max i can lift then do another 3 sets of 10 on a lower weight then a final couple of sets an even lower weight.
> 
> So basically im still doing 10x10 but instead of starting on an lighter weight and waiting for it to become more difficult im doin the same sets/reps but keeping it difficult throughout by adapting the weight throughout.
> 
> Would this not be a better approach as your reaching fatigue in every set?
> 
> Please correct me if im wrong here. Its just seems to make more sense to me.


Depends; I think pyramiding is defined as increasing the weight and lowering the rep range on each set. Your doing 4x10 of a constant weight then 3x10 of a (lower) constant weight, which is kind of drop setting but your not lowering the weight periodically (on each set). Your kind of reverse pyramiding lol

if your do this day in day out on every exercise, you are probably over training

Eg, lets say your working chest, 3 exercises- bench press, inclined dumbell press and fly's and you follow your routine ^^ your doing 100 reps on bench, 100 on inc bd press and 100 on fly's.. thats 300 reps in total. How long are you in the gym? :lol:

But I'm making assumptions here that your doing more than one exercise per body part. Me and a friend have done a similar thing, but we only did squats..4 heavy sets, 3 drop sets..prob totalled around 80 reps


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## najybomb

Gvt is a hypertrophy training system. No endurance. Or strength.


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## JuicedUK

C19h2802, thanks for the advice mate. Yeah I think drop sets was a better description of what I meant. And I don't do this for all my routines. It's just something I incorporate if I wanna give a muscle group a good pounding. Ha ha. I spend an hour in the gym. Usually 2 muscle groups.


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## mal

i dont know what german volume traing is all about lol,but i do lots of drop sets

and very high reps on everything,i like it prsonally,not sure i could do 4 sets of

10 and walk out the gym, i do 60 plus reps per set,do what works for you.


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## mal

alot less injurys as well,bonus.


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## Guest

GVT is basically 10 sets of 10 reps, 60 to 70 % of 1RM, train each body part only once in the week. I like doing these when I get to the point where my strength seems to have reached a level im stuck at and I need to change it up a bit. I def like it but mates who have done it with me never stuck with it and wnet back to their usual routines.


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## hutchy200

So you do 10 sets of 10 of a compound exercise super setted with a more focussed exercise?then 1 min rest? I did it once 10x10 on the compound and then the other exercise separately! Was good but tough


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## flinty90

im starting OVT on monday to see how it goes...

its similaor to gvt but im mixing 5 sets of 10 compound with 5 sets of 10 isoloator exercises.....

OVT (optimised volume training)


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## bdcc

flinty90 said:


> im starting OVT on monday to see how it goes...
> 
> its similaor to gvt but im mixing 5 sets of 10 compound with 5 sets of 10 isoloator exercises.....
> 
> OVT (optimised volume training)


To quote Poliquin himself on this, "many people try and improve on GVT but nobody succeeds". GVT works, amongst other reasons, because you have 10 sets if the same exercises. It is not the mathematical equation otherwise you could do 4 x 10, 3 x 10 and 3 x 10 on a body part, call it Flinty Volume Training and compare the two programmes.


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## flinty90

bdcc said:


> To quote Poliquin himself on this, "many people try and improve on GVT but nobody succeeds". GVT works, amongst other reasons, because you have 10 sets if the same exercises. It is not the mathematical equation otherwise you could do 4 x 10, 3 x 10 and 3 x 10 on a body part, call it Flinty Volume Training and compare the two programmes.


it is actually called OVT mate, and its still 1 bodypart for 10 sets, 100 reps its just from 2 angles rather than 1 .. worth a try i figured


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## biglbs

flinty90 said:


> it is actually called OVT mate, and its still 1 bodypart for 10 sets, 100 reps its just from 2 angles rather than 1 .. worth a try i figured


Sounds inte:thumb:resting!


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## Readyandwaiting

did the 10 sets on squats quite a few times, sooo fckin tough but does shyt all for the legs, made them go really hard and tight but not in a good way sore for a week


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## H22civic

I know by the end of the 10sets your pumped up and really struggling to hit your rep target, however, I really find it hard to get my head around doing the early (easy) sets to get you to that stage. It just feels like a waste of time and effort to me.

If I was going to do 10 sets on the bench press for example, id rather start with my 10 rep max and strip weight off as I start to drop below my rep target. To me thats going to hit you alot harder than doing 10 sets but maybe only half of them fatiguing the muscle fully. Maybe im missing the point of GVT?


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## animal adam

Did 10 x 10 on squats. Puked up and couldnt walk for a week lol


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## s3_abv

Not sure on gvt but 5x5 is the same in essence and that works. Give it a go


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## Ser

I have only read the title, no answers....i have tried it and it was good! i have since changed my routine though....it was great for pushing myself and finding my tolerance level....but just found another system worked better for me....my strength DID improve over my time of using this method


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## dtlv

I've not done the GVT routine as such, but about 15 years ago there was a suggested routine in Ironman magazine which I followed which had you do a different compound exercise monday through saturday doing 10x10, and then also doing a couple of ancilary exercises.

I remember the routine as I did it quite well because I really enjoyed it, and it was the first 'non standard' split i ever experimented with. IIRC I did it like this:

mon - bench press 10x10, 3 sets laterals

tue - bent over row 10x10, 3 sets curls

wed - squat 10x10, 3 sets abs

thu - behind neck press 10x10, 3 sets triceps

fri - chins (swapped latter sets to pulldowns as couldnt do 10x10 chins) 10x10, 3 sets forearms

sat - stiff legged deadlift 10x10, 3 sets calves

Did it for around 8-10 weeks and grew well on it, legs especially. Strength didn't go up a huge amount, but CV fitness improved a lot, as did lactate threshold.


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## mr.buffnstuff

I really liked it to be fair! Did it whilst on keto!


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## rsd147

Done this and saw alot of gains in strength. Dont think I saw much in appearance but that changed when I started on Hypertrophy


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## stone14

There's a good variation to GVT over on t-nation website called OVT "optimum volume training which instead of 10x10 same exersise its something like 5x5 of 2x1compoundexersise +iso exersise being ie:

5sets: Barbell press 5reps(202) supersetted (no rest) with 10-20rep chest flies(402).

30-60sec rest inbetween supersets,

Then a 2nd compound exersise+ iso set for 5sets etc as above.

So basicly 10x5rep supersets 30-60sec rests.

5sets compound exercise A+iso exersise A

5sets compound exercise B+iso exersise B


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## DORIAN

Im starting week 2 of this and so far so good, the doms and pump you get is unreal.

time will tell if it is truely effective, but the way it makes you feel so far, it cant do

any harm


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## saxondale

turns out I`ve been doing it this without knowing.

lack of spotter was the reason (there is never anyone else in the gym when I go) weights lifted has doubled over 5 months, would guess I`m working at 70-80 percent 1RM


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## biglbs

Many prisoners in WW2,did not do them any good either.


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## MURPHYZ

I've done this for 6 weeks now and it is good, not something I would want to do for to long personally, but I will defo include it as part of my training again, had good results .


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## no1dnbhead

i tried the advanced german volume training for strength and size it worked very well on bring my legs up.


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## alan_wilson

Once a week I do ovt

On chest, I do two chest sessions a week...the second being optimized volume training. And after four weeks I've noticed strength gains, even more impressive is that I'm week nine into a cut.


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## IronMaiden

Hi I'm so confused what is the best routine ? Thers so many routines out there for this ??


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## Guest

IronMaiden said:


> Hi I'm so confused what is the best routine ? Thers so many routines out there for this ??


 One compound exercise per body part - so for me I go for Bench, OHP, Dips, Bent over rows, Deads and Squats. 10 sets of 10 reps at 60% of your 1rm. If you complete 10 sets of 10 then increase the weight (I aim to add 5kg each time) and repeat until you can complete 10sets again. If you run long enough deloading is a good idea as I always get burned out by GVT after a few weeks.

This is a basic version but once you have done this a couple of times there are a couple of more advanced routines involving lifting more weight and fewer reps per set but the 10x10 is a good place to start and a nice change of routine for me when I hit a plateau too.


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## IronMaiden

RS86 said:


> One compound exercise per body part - so for me I go for Bench, OHP, Dips, Bent over rows, Deads and Squats. 10 sets of 10 reps at 60% of your 1rm. If you complete 10 sets of 10 then increase the weight (I aim to add 5kg each time) and repeat until you can complete 10sets again. If you run long enough deloading is a good idea as I always get burned out by GVT after a few weeks.
> 
> This is a basic version but once you have done this a couple of times there are a couple of more advanced routines involving lifting more weight and fewer reps per set but the 10x10 is a good place to start and a nice change of routine for me when I hit a plateau too.


Thanks but where can I find a proper routine ? All online say different things. Iv seen a bench press supersetted with chin-ups 10x10 followed by 2 isolation exercises 3x10


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## Guest

IronMaiden said:


> Thanks but where can I find a proper routine ? All online say different things. Iv seen a bench press supersetted with chin-ups 10x10 followed by 2 isolation exercises 3x10


 Here is a decent guide http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm


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## IronMaiden

RS86 said:


> Here is a decent guide http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm


Thanks alot mate !


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## Guest

IronMaiden said:


> Thanks alot mate !


 Glad I could help


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## no-way

Started GVT this week, i'm simply choosing 3 exercises per muscle group and doing 10x10.

It's a lot tough than I thought it was going to be!


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## IronMaiden

no-way said:


> Started GVT this week, i'm simply choosing 3 exercises per muscle group and doing 10x10.
> 
> It's a lot tough than I thought it was going to be!


Could u give me examples of your routine please mate?

Thanks


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## no-way

IronMaiden said:


> Could u give me examples of your routine please mate?
> 
> Thanks


I'm only planning on running this for 3 weeks but this is what I plan to do. :

Chest - Incline db press 10x10

- Flat BP 10x10

- cable crossovers 10x10

Back - weighted dorsal raises 10x10

- wide grip pull down 10x10

- straight arm cable pull down 10x10

Shoulders - db shoulder press 10x10

- side raises 10x10

- rope face pulls 10x10

- Shrugs 10x10

Legs - Leg press 10x10

- hamstring curls 10x10

- calf raises 10x10

Arms - Cable curls 10x10

- rope close grip pull downs 10x10 (alternate, no rest between bi then tri then 60 seconds before next set)

- crusafix curls 10x10

- french press 10x10

I personally only train for 50 minutes 5 days a week, so my training is always pretty intense, but after I did chest on tues my chest hurt like f*ck yesterday. Trained back today and it was really tough too...

Finding the right weight will take a week or so, but I plan to increase the weight by 10% or as close as for each exercise each week.


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## IronMaiden

no-way said:


> I'm only planning on running this for 3 weeks but this is what I plan to do. :
> 
> Chest - Incline db press 10x10
> 
> - Flat BP 10x10
> 
> - cable crossovers 10x10
> 
> Back - weighted dorsal raises 10x10
> 
> - wide grip pull down 10x10
> 
> - straight arm cable pull down 10x10
> 
> Shoulders - db shoulder press 10x10
> 
> - side raises 10x10
> 
> - rope face pulls 10x10
> 
> - Shrugs 10x10
> 
> Legs - Leg press 10x10
> 
> - hamstring curls 10x10
> 
> - calf raises 10x10
> 
> Arms - Cable curls 10x10
> 
> - rope close grip pull downs 10x10 (alternate, no rest between bi then tri then 60 seconds before next set)
> 
> - crusafix curls 10x10
> 
> - french press 10x10
> 
> I personally only train for 50 minutes 5 days a week, so my training is always pretty intense, but after I did chest on tues my chest hurt like f*ck yesterday. Trained back today and it was really tough too...
> 
> Finding the right weight will take a week or so, but I plan to increase the weight by 10% or as close as for each exercise each week.


Excellent. Thanks for that. I'm planning on starting on Monday. Do u think this approach is better than the ones seen in articles ? Yours seems more intense and muscle group specific. I think I prefer it to be honest.

With your bench how did you find your weight for 10 sets?

Also are you resting 60 between each set ?

Thanks


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## no-way

IronMaiden said:


> Excellent. Thanks for that. I'm planning on starting on Monday. Do u think this approach is better than the ones seen in articles ? Yours seems more intense and muscle group specific. I think I prefer it to be honest.
> 
> With your bench how did you find your weight for 10 sets?
> 
> Also are you resting 60 between each set ?
> 
> Thanks


Yeah I spoke to an ex pro i've trained with and he said he had run it like this before instead of only one set.

I kind of know where abouts I need to go with regards to weight each exercise, and so far have been pretty much spot on. I benched 70KG but that was after the incline db. Could have gone a little heavier for sure so will go to 75kg next week.

Yes resting 60 seconds between each set. I have been DC training so used to 30 seconds so okay for me.


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## ClarkyBoy

no-way said:


> Started GVT this week, i'm simply choosing 3 exercises per muscle group and doing 10x10.
> 
> It's a lot tough than I thought it was going to be!


This! I started with chest a couple of nights back as I felt I was at a plateau, got ****ing DOMs for days now! Struggled to turn the wheel in my car haha


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## no-way

ClarkyBoy said:


> This! I started with chest a couple of nights back as I felt I was at a plateau, got ****ing DOMs for days now! Struggled to turn the wheel in my car haha


Haha, i'm at the end of my test cycle and haven't felt an ache like that for weeks!


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## IronMaiden

no-way said:


> Yeah I spoke to an ex pro i've trained with and he said he had run it like this before instead of only one set.
> 
> I kind of know where abouts I need to go with regards to weight each exercise, and so far have been pretty much spot on. I benched 70KG but that was after the incline db. Could have gone a little heavier for sure so will go to 75kg next week.
> 
> Yes resting 60 seconds between each set. I have been DC training so used to 30 seconds so okay for me.


How about rest days tho cos the original is only 3 days a weeks isn't it? U recon your 5 days is too much?

Thanks for the info man really appreciate it!


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## IronMaiden

ClarkyBoy said:


> This! I started with chest a couple of nights back as I felt I was at a plateau, got ****ing DOMs for days now! Struggled to turn the wheel in my car haha


Haha that's what I Wana feel


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## ClarkyBoy

no-way said:


> Haha, i'm at the end of my test cycle and haven't felt an ache like that for weeks!


Same mate! I'm slowly lowering my dose as I get towards the end of a pretty intense cycle. Woke up in the morning and couldn't even lift my arms properly haha


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## ClarkyBoy

IronMaiden said:


> Haha that's what I Wana feel


Ha! Not sure you do hahaha


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## no-way

IronMaiden said:


> How about rest days tho cos the original is only 3 days a weeks isn't it? U recon your 5 days is too much?
> 
> Thanks for the info man really appreciate it!


Hi mate, as I mentioned in my last post i'm coming to the end of a 16 week test cycle, so training 5 days a week isn't so much of a problem as i'm recovering with more than enough time. Either way, each body part is only being trained once a week. So;

Monday - Legs

Tues - Chest

Weds - Rest

Thur - Back

Fri - Shoulders

Sat - Arms

Sun - Rest

If you're worried about over training, you can always drop the arms day and include a bi/tri exercise on chest and shoulder days (3 days apart in my routine) But to be honest, 50 mins training 5 days a week isn't a huge amount.


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## IronMaiden

Tried this for first time. Done the chest day and man I was bored! But I got thru it. Really burned. Not sure i could find motivation for it but will try the whole week


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## faultline

I'm currently doing gvt, I think it's great, got some serious chest DOMS today, legs tomorrow!


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## IronMaiden

faultline said:


> I'm currently doing gvt, I think it's great, got some serious chest DOMS today, legs tomorrow!


Defo true about the doms


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## ClarkyBoy

faultline said:


> I'm currently doing gvt, I think it's great, got some serious chest DOMS today, legs tomorrow!


Did legs myself yesterday, just tried to get out of bed to get to the kitchen..... My legs may as well not be there! GVT is fricking awesome!!!


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## IronMaiden

ClarkyBoy said:


> Did legs myself yesterday, just tried to get out of bed to get to the kitchen..... My legs may as well not be there! GVT is fricking awesome!!!


Nice.. What routine did u do ?


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## ClarkyBoy

IronMaiden said:


> Nice.. What routine did u do ?


Very simple 10x10 Squats @ 100-110kg 45 sec rest in between sets

Leg extension 10x10 (can't remember wait used)

Laying leg curl 10x10

Seated calf raise 5x20 (10 reps doesn't hit em hard enough for me)

Standing calf raise 5x20

All above done with 45 sec rest in between sets. Still sore this morning.


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## no-way

ClarkyBoy said:


> Did legs myself yesterday, just tried to get out of bed to get to the kitchen..... My legs may as well not be there! GVT is fricking awesome!!!


I just trained legs for the first time using my version of GVT... I am back in my office and want to go home and lay down...

That was harder than DC training in my opinion. 10 sets of 200kg leg press, 10 sets of calf raises, 10 sets of hamstring curls. My quads started cramping up while I was doing calf raises which is a first.


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## ClarkyBoy

no-way said:


> I just trained legs for the first time using my version of GVT... I am back in my office and want to go home and lay down...
> 
> That was harder than DC training in my opinion. 10 sets of 200kg leg press, 10 sets of calf raises, 10 sets of hamstring curls. My quads started cramping up while I was doing calf raises which is a first.


Agreed mate. It's awful, yet at the same time ****kng amazing!

I train legs twice weekly so will be doing one session of GVT and then one session of strength training.... A few days separated of course!


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## IronMaiden

Wow can't wait for that!

With tempo I see its 402... Can one of u explain is that 4 seconds negative them just straight up. Hold for 2 them repeat ?

Thanks


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## no-way

IronMaiden said:


> Wow can't wait for that!
> 
> With tempo I see its 402... Can one of u explain is that 4 seconds negative them just straight up. Hold for 2 them repeat ?
> 
> Thanks


Huh?


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## IronMaiden

no-way said:


> Huh?


Some lad at the gym was sayin to me 4 seconds slow on the negatives ... When doing gvt... I'm not sure of it??


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## no-way

IronMaiden said:


> Some lad at the gym was sayin to me 4 seconds slow on the negatives ... When doing gvt... I'm not sure of it??


Oh okay... If you think you can do that then feel free. Personally i'm f*cked by the time I get to 8 sets and its hard enough doing the final 2.

But if you haven't quite got the weight right (too low) then i't would be worth it. Or just increase the weight a little. Most important thing for me was form and the 60 seconds rest being stuck to. My heart rate was sky high towards the end of the leg press, felt like a cardio session (which I love about hypertrophy training).


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## ClarkyBoy

IronMaiden said:


> Some lad at the gym was sayin to me 4 seconds slow on the negatives ... When doing gvt... I'm not sure of it??


There's loads of takes on it and variants on line. As no-way said when I did it, it was all about the form and sticking to the 45-60 second rest period in between sets.


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## faultline

Did gvt legs yesterday, need a wheelchair today


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## IronMaiden

Done shoulders. No doms.seriously why!


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## Xbigdave79

I tried gvt about 8 months ago, the first few weeks felt relly great , nice pumps leaned out a bit ,

But seemed to lose its affective ness after 3 weeks ,it's a good workout for a short time


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## IronMaiden

Xbigdave79 said:


> I tried gvt about 8 months ago, the first few weeks felt relly great , nice pumps leaned out a bit ,
> 
> But seemed to lose its affective ness after 3 weeks ,it's a good workout for a short time


I can see that happening. Iv only done chest one day then I don't shoulders for first time ... To be honest I find it a bit boring. But it's interesting to hear everyone's routines. I'm also wondering about the tempo ... Must make a massive difference along with rest period. I'm doing 60 seconds rest.


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## Xbigdave79

IronMaiden said:


> I can see that happening. Iv only done chest one day then I don't shoulders for first time ... To be honest I find it a bit boring. But it's interesting to hear everyone's routines. I'm also wondering about the tempo ... Must make a massive difference along with rest period. I'm doing 60 seconds rest.


I did 60 seconds rest myself. But I did 2 exercises for the 10 sets just to mix things up a bit

Eg 5 sets incline bench then 5sets of flat dumbbell presses


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## xpower

Doing it @ the mo & love it so far TBH.

Done the 10x10 weeks & now on the lower volume period

Gained 12 LBS in that time without any fat gains (on AAS though)

I sue a timer to make sure rest periods are correct


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## Gary29

Yeah as above, I use a little stop watch to keep strict 60 second rest periods between sets, it's much more effective that way rather than waiting till you feel 'ready' for the next set, just force yourself to do the next set after a 60 second rest and then by the 10th set you'll be hurting.


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## IronMaiden

Good stuff. Yh I use stopwatch too.

What's your tempo like guys?


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## mr.buffnstuff

I did GVT for 4 weeks whilst on keto...

GVT is the most boring thing Iv done!

Keto is the second most boring thing I've done....

Together really sucked!


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## IronMaiden

mr.buffnstuff said:


> I did GVT for 4 weeks whilst on keto...
> 
> GVT is the most boring thing Iv done!
> 
> Keto is the second most boring thing I've done....
> 
> Together really sucked!


I could imagine. Gvt is so boring. And keto on top! Wow


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## mr.buffnstuff

IronMaiden said:


> I could imagine. Gvt is so boring. And keto on top! Wow


Plus no music to go to, just the buzzer! I voted 'tried but don't rate' maybe if I wasn't on keto my opinion might of been different?


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## Stevenstrain86

I have. German Volume Training (GVT) Has been a staple in my regime for years. I used it in the leisure centre I work in & I caught on, big time. But it's not just a case of doing 10 sets of 10 reps (10x10.)

The weight should be 60-70% of your maximum. So a person who can Bench Press 100kg for their 1RM would work with 60, certainly no more than 70kg. In simpler terms a weight you can do 20 reps with and that's pretty much to failure.

The rest period between sets shouldn't exceed 60 seconds.

Emphasis on compound exercises is a good idea for GVT, i.e. Squats rather than leg extensions.

The tempo of the reps should be 2 seconds during the concentric (positive) part of the rep and 4 seconds during the eccentric (negative) part of the rep.

You may be nearing the point of failure by the last couple of sets but that's not necessarily the aim of GVT.

Because of the sheer volume, exercises will have to be kept to a minimum.

All this will count for nothing without GOOD FORM. Half reps = half muscles so a full range of motion (ROM,) squeezing at the top and stretching at the bottom, making the exercise as difficult as possible, thereby making it as effective as possible. Creating an optimum 'pump' in the muscle/area/body part you're trying to work. Focus on creating stress on the muscle.

IMO GVT is good for bodybuilding not so much strength training, there are certainly better routines for strength and power.

It's great if you're looking to swell up and add mass fast. A very basic routine to stimulate the muscles rather than annihilate.


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## Abc987

I found I lost quite a bit of strength doing gvt. I tried it for about 2-3 months least year. Wasn't that good imo


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## nWo

Works well for a few weeks IME, just seems like my body adapts to it and I stop growing despite adding more weight to the bar. But yeah, good to do it for a few weeks once in a while for something different, I quite enjoy it tbh. No good for chest for me though, seems like due to the endless reps my rotator cuffs get fatigued long before my chest does, and they become a limiting factor so my chest doesn't get worked effectively. So if I do GVT I just train chest as usual.


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## Major Eyeswater

I did it for 6 weeks over the summer after a couple of years of concentrating on high intensity / low volume full-body workouts.

Difficult to judge it's effectiveness because I did it between cycles so didn't gain any real size, but it certainly helped my muscular endurance - something I was lacking.

I had to start most exercises at about 50% of my 1 rep max, but the weights increased rapidly.

It's had a long term benefit, because on this cycle I've been working with higher volumes, and I've been gaining faster than I did on my first cycle. Doing the GVT got me used to volume training (physically and mentally) so when I started my current routine a month ago, I could hit the ground running.


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## Noodles1976

B|GJOE said:


> Not interested in anything that has the word 'Volume' in the title, never read anything about it and don't intend to. I prefer workouts with the word intensity in the title. I like to get in, do the work and get the hell out to eat and grow.


That is funny because having trained naturally for 20 years the best arms programme I have used is the GVT 10 sets of dips 10 hammer curls routine. My arms are 19 to 20 inches. Try it!


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## monkeez

I want to try this but the only problem being the layout of the equipment at my gym.

Do you have to superset or can you do 10 sets of one then 10 sets of the other?


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## monkeez

monkeez said:


> I want to try this but the only problem being the layout of the equipment at my gym.
> 
> Do you have to superset or can you do 10 sets of one then 10 sets of the other?


When i think about this, its probably a bad idea to do 10 sets of one then 10 sets of the other due to the fact that the supersetting gives the muscles from the previous set a bit of a rest

does that make sense?


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## stevenmcom

Heineken said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/training-articles/33176-german-high-volume-training-10-x-10-a.html
> 
> I've been flirting with the idea for a while and I'm looking for a routine for the rebound after my cut.. the gym will be quiet during the summer too as all the students f*ck off home :lol:
> 
> Ideal time to try it out really due to the super-setting and availability of equipment, this is just a quick poll really to see who's tried it. If you have, could you take the time to maybe post your experiences with it, progress you made, just general experiences with it.
> 
> Cheers :beer:


I tried the GVT routine from here - http://www.mindthemuscle.com/index.php/workouts/workout-powerlifting/131-mind-the-muscle-powerlifting - and I have to say it was a killer but I did managed to get over a few plateaus...


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## Dazza

Currently running this partly as i'm in pct so better to go for volume, also to see what changes it brings.

So far it's been great, very hard running it on a cut, but looking fuller and better than ever.

Doesn't half suck the life out of me mind.


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## bdcc

monkeez said:


> I want to try this but the only problem being the layout of the equipment at my gym.
> 
> Do you have to superset or can you do 10 sets of one then 10 sets of the other?


The supersets are an integral part of the programme design. I explain why in this old video of mine: German Volume Training (GVT). Why You Are Probably Doing It Wrong - YouTube

You can be clever with equipment though. I have performed dumbbell bench presses with dumbbell chest supported row and only needed one bench and one pair of dumbbells.


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## bdcc

stevenmcom said:


> I tried the GVT routine from here - Brutal German Volume Training - and I have to say it was a killer but I did managed to get over a few plateaus...


This routine is a perfect example of why I made the above video lol.

It just isn't GVT anymore.


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## sciatic

Not read previous comments as I'm about to sit down and eat loads of Christmas leftovers. Although my training is more Dorian Yates style, I thrown in the 10x10 every now and again. You need a good spotter you can trust. I love the dizzy, sick and mind blowing pumps doing German volume I experience. It's great for a shake up in your routine.


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## nWo

sciatic said:


> Not read previous comments as I'm about to sit down and eat loads of Christmas leftovers. Although my training is more Dorian Yates style, I thrown in the 10x10 every now and again. You need a good spotter you can trust. I love the dizzy, sick and mind blowing pumps doing German volume I experience. It's great for a shake up in your routine.


I'm a HIT junkie as well but I enjoy a bit of GVT every now and then. Completely different feeling post-workout - HIT gives your CNS a pounding and you feel like you've been hit by a train afterwards, whereas with GVT you're just sore and my arms shake whenever I try and lift them too high for several hours afterwards.

Must say I've never really needed a spotter though. You should never really be training to true failure with GVT, maybe close on the tenth set but not HIT failure, where you know there's a chance you might not complete the rep. Even if misjudgements do happen, you're using light enough weights to do a "roll of shame" on the bench press or press the weight off your shoulders on squats.


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## nWo

> I'm a HIT junkie as well but I enjoy a bit of GVT every now and then. Completely different feeling post-workout - HIT gives your CNS a pounding and you feel like you've been hit by a train afterwards, whereas with GVT you're just sore and my arms shake whenever I try and lift them too high for several hours afterwards.
> 
> Must say I've never really needed a spotter though. You should never really be training to true failure with GVT, maybe close on the tenth set but not HIT failure, where you know there's a chance you might not complete the rep. Even if misjudgements do happen, you're using light enough weights to do a "roll of shame" on the bench press or press the weight off your shoulders on squats.


Well, someone resurrected this thread with a vote on the poll, so I might as well post again with more thoughts. Upon discovering that GVT was originally based on Vince Gironda's methods, I looked into his methods further. Been using them on my cut and I'm loving 6x6, perfect balance between using decent weights (about 70% 1RM) and cumulative fatigue based training. I had a little go on 8x8 and 6x12 but I just don't like them, feels like my joints take more of a knackering than my muscles sometimes. I think they're probably suited more to full body workouts where you do one exercise per bodypart tbh. But 6x6 is very well suited to a split routine IMO, though my split is upper/lower based.


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## funkdocta

Just finished 6 weeks GVT... i enjoyed it! it was nice to get some serious doms again by mixing things up.


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## TLWFAP

Did it when I was around 16. I would say it would probably work amazing on cycle but off it will get you a lot of fat too.


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## Big ape

Gvt is good if u don't do much to do with your life and have 2 hours to spend in a gym


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## bdcc

TLWFAP said:


> Did it when I was around 16. I would say it would probably work amazing on cycle but off it will get you a lot of fat too.


This would be diet dependent rather than training dependent.



Big ape said:


> Gvt is good if u don't do much to do with your life and have 2 hours to spend in a gym


The original GVT programme has set rest intervals so it should be taking approximately one hour, not two.

If it is taking two hours it is either;

1) A different programme

2) Not adhering to the programme


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## nWo

bdcc said:


> This would be diet dependent rather than training dependent.
> 
> The original GVT programme has set rest intervals so it should be taking approximately one hour, not two.
> 
> If it is taking two hours it is either;
> 
> 1) A different programme
> 
> 2) Not adhering to the programme


Spot on with both answers mate. How TF can a style of training make you fat :lol:


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## bdcc

> Spot on with both answers mate. How TF can a style of training make you fat :lol:


5 x 5 made me fat once.

It was nothing to do with my 5,000 calorie per day bulking phase.


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## Haunted_Sausage

Did it whilst on keto so may have clouded my view but just so incredibly boring made me hate my life!


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## VeneCZ

It might be boring, it might be "low volume" for someone. But ****ing nobody (except for BennyC) mentioned that it requires 4 seconds of eccentric phase, that makes it crazy hard and painful.

Now calculate "volume" from it compared to average 10x10 with minimal eccentric phase.


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## nWo

VeneCZ said:


> It might be boring, it might be "low volume" for someone. But ****ing nobody (except for BennyC) mentioned that it requires 4 seconds of eccentric phase, that makes it crazy hard and painful.
> 
> Now calculate "volume" from it compared to average 10x10 with minimal eccentric phase.


Exactly mate. Some people say a two second positive as well but I've never liked the idea of this. Slow negative to cause maximal fibre damage (and therefore trigger supercompensation) and explosive positive to develop power, otherwise you just end up not progressively overloading as the weeks go by and progress comes to a halt pretty ****ing quickly.


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## karbonk

Switched to this for 2 exercise's only 4 weeks ago, bench press and flat bar arm curl, getting results with 1 min interval, talk about feeling the pump and the pain !! Stimulating muscle growth without a doubt !!


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