# Bulking without getting fat



## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Since I got back into training in mid August I have been bulking.

Trying to do it quite clean - around +10% maintenance cals, gaining about 3kg in 8 weeks whilst keeping my waistline the same (79 to 80cm).

Now my weight is still going up but my waistline seems to be too, which I guess is excess fat.

Last time I bulked I got to 83kg but with 91cm waist which didn't look that good tbh.

Then again I'm not convinced it's fat or bloat from constantly having a full stomach.

At the moment my waist is about 81cm first thing in a morning but about 88cm last thing at night.

Using calipers my bf% hasn't changed in weeks.

So: I want to grow, without gaining waistline and looking crap.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I'd normally go with the caliper readings, meaning that you aren't gaining fat. Where are you measuring out of interest? I find measuring a couple of cm to the side of my belly button more sensitive to changes than the usual single supra-iliac point.


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## Pictor (Jan 10, 2011)

Tren and T3, thank me later


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'd normally go with the caliper readings, meaning that you aren't gaining fat. Where are you measuring out of interest? I find measuring a couple of cm to the side of my belly button more sensitive to changes than the usual single supra-iliac point.


I measure supra-iliac, arms and back, as per this link.

I'm not bothered whether it's 100% accurate, I'm just looking at trends.

lol @ Tren and T3 - natural for now and always I think.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Varg said:


> I measure supra-iliac, arms and back, as per this link.
> 
> I'm not bothered whether it's 100% accurate, I'm just looking at trends.


Yeah, I just look at trends to. The booklet with my calipers has a chart based purely on supra iliac measurements and it's way off. Think it reckons I'm about 7% body fat at the moment and although I'm fairly lean I'm nothing like that ripped!

The reason I sugested lateral to umbilicus is because there tend to be larger changes there, particularly if you ae pretty lean so all measurements are fairly low. Just something else to possibly try, particularly as it is abdominal fat gain you are worrying about.


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

OK, will do.

So you reckon don't worry about actual waist measurement if the bf is staying the same?

Mine is nothing like 7% by the way, more like 15.5% 

And that's with less than 32" waist.


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## andyebs (Aug 14, 2013)

i heard of this myth called the clean bulk lol


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

andyebs said:


> i heard of this myth called the clean bulk lol


Hmm, yeah but look at the progress pics thread and people still look pretty decent on bulks.

Could be the aforementioned tren & T3 though


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## MySuppCheck (Aug 3, 2014)

Wanting to bulk without putting on a bit of fat is like wanting to swim without getting wet


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

MySuppCheck said:


> Wanting to bulk without putting on a bit of fat is like wanting to swim without getting wet


This:lol: ^^^ ... at some point u got to accept a bit of fat gain in a bulk


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Meh, but I've got so much to gain!

Off on a 5 year bulk now, before cutting...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Varg said:


> OK, will do.
> 
> So you reckon don't worry about actual waist measurement if the bf is staying the same?


Well I guess you could be gaining internal fat, but you can't really check that. As others have said though, trying to bulk without gaining some fat is a pretty hard ask. To me 'lean bulk' means gaining a small amount of fat, as opposed to the bulks of old where you'd just eat lots and gain lots of fat too. Don't ask me how much fat gain is reasonable BTW, I'm still trying to work that out myself...


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## themav (Oct 7, 2010)

Whether bulking or cutting fasted morning cardio always helps IMO then having breakfast a couple of hours later at 10am.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Give cardio before breakfast a go if you fancy it, but for balance I'll mention there is at least some debate whether this is actually better for fat loss than cardio at any other time of day:

http://winstonsalempersonaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Does_Cardio_After_an_Overnight_Fast_Maximize_Fat.3.pdf

I wouldn't worry about the concern raised about it being catabolic though - the evidence cited for this comes from studies looking at exercise whilst glycogen depleted, which you won't be.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Give cardio before breakfast a go if you fancy it, but for balance I'll mention there is at least some debate whether this is actually better for fat loss than cardio at any other time of day:
> 
> http://winstonsalempersonaltraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Does_Cardio_After_an_Overnight_Fast_Maximize_Fat.3.pdf
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the concern raised about it being catabolic though - the evidence cited for this comes from studies looking at exercise whilst glycogen depleted, which you won't be.


its not in debate - stop trying to pass your understanding of as fact mate.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Varg said:


> I measure supra-iliac, arms and back, as per this link.
> 
> I'm not bothered whether it's 100% accurate, I'm just looking at trends.
> 
> lol @ Tren and T3 - *natural for now and always I think*.


Good luck with that lean bulk then mate, you'll fúcking well need it :laugh:


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Impossible if you don't use drugs!


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Guess I'm stuck with no abs for the foreseeable future then.

Reckon I need around 10kg more before even thinking about cutting...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Varg said:


> Guess I'm stuck with no abs for the foreseeable future then.
> 
> Reckon I need around 10kg more before even thinking about cutting...


If you're concerned about looking too fat, then a perfectly sensible plan is periodic mini-cuts. Say bulk for 6 weeks, then cut for 2, and repeat.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Some fat gain is inevitable on a bulk (unless you are assisted), simply because muscle grows best in an environment of surplus calories.

Ultrasonic's suggestion of alternating short cut & bulk cycles might help. I did this when I was natty and found it very effective.

As for the thickening waist - I dropped 2 inches off my waist last week simply by coming off the fairly dirty bulk (500-750 surplus) I'd been on and going to a small deficit (100-300 cals). Fat loss has been barely significant, but surplus calories definitely thicken your middle out a lot. Glycogen storage in the liver probably accounts for a lot of this.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

For the past 6 weeks I have been starting out on my lean / clean bulk and it has become apparent that building muscle without gaining fat just isn't going to happen for me. From my point of view its all aboult limiting the amount of fat gained so that when it comes time to cut its a lot less difficult but its not an easy process.

If there is a secret method then if you find it let me know.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

And what I've realised is, you will NEVER get big(if that's your goal) naturally, unless you were born with some very special genetics. Like rugby players. They are just big without trying.

If you've always been a skinny c*nt like me when younger, you're pretty much doomed unless you take some form of assistance.


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

I think there certainly is a limit to the amount of muscle a person can gain naturally. It is possible to get big unassisted but body composition would be shocking.


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## gettingthere88 (Oct 22, 2014)

the best way to "bulk" really is too eat what you do when you diet but more of it....simple as that obv within your required kcal to grow.

ive tried all ways and the best way is to stay clean and add tht mass slowly.

as for being big natural....... i did ok ..


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

gettingthere88 said:


> Gaining muscle, not water or fat can easily be achieved very well without bulking to extremes.
> 
> Eat what you do when you diet but just more of it...obv within your kcal needed to grow.
> 
> ...


You're one of the lucky few bud. I was a scrawny 75kg all my life until I started training. I got up to 100kg but carried too much bodyfat for my liking. I tried stripping the fat off to keep as much muscle as possible and found myself back down to 78kg. All my gains gone.

Then I tried to gain the slow and steady route and I'm now at 83kg but I'm tired of struggling like this as I've been training for 10 years now.

Finally doing an oral cycle in a week to see what I can achieve.


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## gettingthere88 (Oct 22, 2014)

MFM said:


> You're one of the lucky few bud. I was a scrawny 75kg all my life until I started training. I got up to 100kg but carried too much bodyfat for my liking. I tried stripping the fat off to keep as much muscle as possible and found myself back down to 78kg. All my gains gone.
> 
> Then I tried to gain the slow and steady route and I'm now at 83kg but I'm tired of struggling like this as I've been training for 10 years now.
> 
> Finally doing an oral cycle in a week to see what I can achieve.


yeh me too mate ive done dbol only cycle once and gonna try again ..inject maybe in future


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

gettingthere88 said:


> yeh me too mate ive done dbol only cycle once and gonna try again ..inject maybe in future


Just looking at your other thread, you're f*cking huge!! Why would you want to go on a cycle? Lol


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## gettingthere88 (Oct 22, 2014)

MFM said:


> Just looking at your other thread, you're f*cking huge!! Why would you want to go on a cycle? Lol


more strength mate need more t compete


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## tuktuk (Sep 30, 2009)

Just to jump on he back of this thread. Im just over 70kg, been bulking on 2800 calories (clean) for the past 6 weeks. Must have started at just over 16%body fat as a guess(slight abs?) and now starting to look slightly smoother/fatter. Im at the point where my lifts are not increasing so the answer seems to be up the calories but surely im going to gain more fat and be pushing 20%

Being natty is this always the way? Im not piling food in, I train 5 days of the week and generally quite active. Seems im never going to get anywhere unless i push on with bulking and ignore the fat gain.

Maybes add in some cardio 3 days a week to help keep fat down?


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## trapover (Dec 26, 2007)

Ah....how sweet, bulking without getting fat....if anybody finds a way, let me know please. Thanks

(I'm off to hang out with my favourite friends, test, tren and cake)

:thumbup1:


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

tuktuk said:


> Just to jump on he back of this thread. Im just over 70kg, been bulking on 2800 calories (clean) for the past 6 weeks. Must have started at just over 16%body fat as a guess(slight abs?) and now starting to look slightly smoother/fatter. Im at the point where my lifts are not increasing so the answer seems to be up the calories but surely im going to gain more fat and be pushing 20%
> 
> Being natty is this always the way? Im not piling food in, I train 5 days of the week and generally quite active. Seems im never going to get anywhere unless i push on with bulking and ignore the fat gain.
> 
> Maybes add in some cardio 3 days a week to help keep fat down?


Up the good food, up the cardio, suplement with creatine tablets.


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## Stevenstrain86 (Sep 17, 2014)

Counter intuitive to exercise physiology my friend! Unless you take Test, Tren, Masteron, HGH and Slin


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## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Well, after a week's holiday where I didn't eat terrible - probably too little, and not enough protein, and didn't work out, my weight is the same yet my waist is 2cm more and I feel bloated and fat!

Surely can't have lost muscle and gained fat in 1 week, so I'm hoping things will settle down after getting back into routine.

But I'm wary about eating too much and expanding my waistline!


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