# Tom90's First Cycle!



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Thought I'd start a journal on here so I can keep track of my progress and hopefully use it to keep me motivated!

I've been lifting for around 4 years on and off. This year has been the best year I've had, training's been good and consistent.

I've spent the last 11 weeks cutting using intermittent fasting. I started off at around 92/93 kg and now I've worked myself down to 85kg. I've done lots of fasted cardio and kept my diet clean, allowing for one cheat meal on a Saturday night.

Here's the good bit!!!

I start my first cycle on 20th December! I'll be using BSI Labs' Test 400 at 600mg for 12weeks, with 0.5mg Adex EOD. I'll be starting HCG in the next few weeks and Nolva and Clomid for PCT.

Body recomposition is what I'm looking to get out of this cycle, I'm looking to cut but LBM gain would be a bonus. Still undecided about whether to continue with IF or revert back to a 'normal' eating routine.

I'm also hoping to be squatting 150kg, benching over 100kg and deadlifting 200kg, all for reps.

I'll be running DNP for 4 weeks next month at 250mg a day, with T3.

My stats as of this week are

185cm (6'2")

85kg

17% BF according to my scales and an online calculator

Bench - 82.5kg 3x5

Deadlift - 172.5kg 1x5

Squat - 117.5kg 3x5

My training will be

Sunday - Chest/Triceps

Monday - Back/Biceps

Tuesday - Rest

Wednesday - Legs

Thursday - Shoulders

Friday - Rest

Saturday - Rest

I'll be doing cardio on training days and rest days, whenever I can.

Each day I'll be adding my training, and just other random stuff.

First time I've put photos of my body on here, I'm a bit scared to be honest! It took some balls just to ask my housemate to take photos of me&#8230;

I'll add new photos each month with the same lighting, same time of day etc, for comparison.



Thanks for looking in, Tom.

**** New photos on page 7 ****

**** New photos on page 19 ****


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Subbed mate.

Age?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh I'm 22.

Incase you're wondering, I didn't blur my face out because I'm wanted for anything, one of my mates is on here and don't want him to know what I'm up to :whistling:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Oh I'm 22.
> 
> Incase you're wondering, I didn't blur my face out because I'm wanted for anything, one of my mates is on here and don't want him to know what I'm up to :whistling:


Haha dont worry about it mate, I do the same, stops nosey cvnts getting involved. Im also 22 mate, be interesting to see how you get on.

I have access to BSI stuff now too, and was thinking of buying some for my next cycle, so I'll keep my eye on this!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

You subbed my journal...i sub yours :laugh:

Good Luck Mate!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Haha dont worry about it mate, I do the same, stops nosey cvnts getting involved. Im also 22 mate, be interesting to see how you get on.
> 
> I have access to BSI stuff now too, and was thinking of buying some for my next cycle, so I'll keep my eye on this!


Gotta keep the creeps away haha

Similar situation then, see how it goes! Heard good stuff about BSI and thought why not have a go!



bigtommay said:


> You subbed my journal...i sub yours :laugh:
> 
> Good Luck Mate!


Legend! Ta


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Got my first jab in the morning, nervous as fvck!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Oh I'm 22.
> 
> Incase you're wondering, I didn't blur my face out because I'm wanted for anything, one of my mates is on here and don't want him to know what I'm up to :whistling:


Lets hope the mate has never been in your kitchen then!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

madocks said:


> Lets hope the mate has never been in your kitchen then!


Haha, don't think he has!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

My goodies! 

Bit gutted that my Nolva or HCG hasn't shown up but hopefully I'll have them soon

I didn't order the Dianabol so I'll get in touch with my source about it.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

How did the first jab go? I'm looking to do my first injectable cycle after new year. Have no idea what I'm doing


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Mey said:


> How did the first jab go? I'm looking to do my first injectable cycle after new year. Have no idea what I'm doing


Doing it in the morning. I've watched loads of videos on youtube, I'll watch one tomorrow and just copy what they do


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Doing my first jab at 1PM! This morning is gonna drag!!!

Then I'm going to the butchers to get some chicken and beef, then training shoulders with my mate


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Doing my first jab at 1PM! This morning is gonna drag!!!
> 
> Then I'm going to the butchers to get some chicken and beef, then training shoulders with my mate


If you need any questions you have about jabbing clearing up give me a shout mate, happy to help.

The dbol you have there is injectible pre-workout mate, so if your going to the gym after jabbing give it a go :thumb:


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## Kamwe kuacha (Jun 19, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> My goodies!
> View attachment 104728
> 
> 
> ...


About the free Inj Dbol, BSI are giving always free vials of gear, so nothing to worry about, it's just a free gift!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Best of luck with your first jab mate. I know how you feel but honestly it's nothing.

Look forward to seeing your results!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Cheers guys, I'll leave the dbol until my next cycle, haven't read much about the stuff. Looking forward to seeing the results myself


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Good luck mate! Subbed.

I was nervous with my first jab. In fact I have always been terrified of needles until now. Just keep calm - you'd be surprised how easy and painless it is.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Jabbed about an hour ago, my **** is killing me!

Actually looking forward to next week though, gonna do my quads next time


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Lol fvck knows what some of you guys are injecting into yourself that it hurts so bad. :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

It's more of a dull ache now.

Just trained shoulders with one of my mates and it was class!

Legs tomorrow


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> It's more of a dull ache now.
> 
> Just trained shoulders with one of my mates and it was class!
> 
> Legs tomorrow


Wait a few weeks until you start noticing the mega pumps :thumb:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Wait a few weeks until you start noticing the mega pumps :thumb:


Don't think I've heard about these mega pumps before, sounds fun 

Ar5e is still aching :lol:


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Ar5e is still aching :lol:


Is that from the Jab? or is there something your not telling us? 

RCT ? Rhondda?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

madocks said:


> Is that from the Jab? or is there something your not telling us?
> 
> RCT ? Rhondda?


The jab!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Really Crappy Town.. haha


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Don't think I've heard about these mega pumps before, sounds fun
> 
> Ar5e is still aching :lol:


Oh boy, i had my first one yesterday mate after only two injectioms.

Absolutely crazy. My sh1tty shoulders blew up like balloons lol. Pity i had to go back to normal!

You'll love it!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Haha, Huge gun pump, mirror photo, facebook profile pic!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

madocks said:


> Haha, Huge gun pump, mirror photo, facebook profile pic!


Damn! I forgot this bit!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Oh boy, i had my first one yesterday mate after only two injectioms.
> 
> Absolutely crazy. My sh1tty shoulders blew up like balloons lol. Pity i had to go back to normal!
> 
> You'll love it!





madocks said:


> Haha, Huge gun pump, mirror photo, facebook profile pic!


Haha, maybe if I was vain enough :whistling:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Woken up this morning and my ar5e is still aching real bad. Not sure how this afternoon's leg session is gonna go..


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Woken up this morning and my ar5e is still aching real bad. Not sure how this afternoon's leg session is gonna go..


Try a hot bath mate.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Try a hot bath mate.


Actually had a hot bath last night, with Radox Muscle soaking stuff, doesn't seem like it's done anything for me!

Had a bad night's sleep too, if I rolled onto my side, I'd wake up with the pain.

I'll get some Ibuprofen later and just get on with it.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Took my dog out for a run earlier, the ache was there at first but then it went away after I'd warmed up.

I can walk around now without it aching. Sitting down is a bit comfier now too.

Training legs at 2pm, I'll make a note of how it goes


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

How does this happen? Is it through moving the needle aroind too much when it's in? Or you jabbing too low that you have to sit on itm or is it just certain tpes of gear? Each of my first glute shots have felt like midge bites and trained legs no problem.

Ive hears dmany people say this as well and it's partly why i was so nervois about injecting lol.

Maybe i'm just hard as nails :laugh:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Basically it can be any of a number of reason.

1- twisting/moving the needle while its in too much, obviously causes more trauma to what is essentially a tiny wound.

2- different solvents/ oils used can lead to pip. However it can be person related, for example one person can be in agony using prochem, another can be fine. If your body doesnt agree with a certain chemical, it doesnt agree, simple as.

3- How much gear is in it. Im using WC testprop 200 atm, and due to the high concentration of test it is notoriously painful.


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## mac1969 (Apr 28, 2009)

Good luck m8 will keep an eye on this.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've got a feeling I might've injected too fast, only took about 20 seconds to get 1.5ml in, I wasn't doing it like I was rushing though, just went in really easy.

Doubt it would be trauma from moving the needle too much, I had nerves of steel


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Also legs was pretty awesome tonight, the only time I could feel the ache was during leg press, other than that it's fine. I'm not walking with a limp anymore lol.

Sitting down is still a little bit uncomfortable but not too bad.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Ahh 20 secs lol. probably took me a good minute and a half to do 2ml each time. Maybe it's something like that.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've actually got DOMS in my glutes so bad, that I can't notice the PIP ache I've been having.

Rest day today, will be mostly staying indoors and doing fvck all :thumb:


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

I'm in lad! I'm 22 too I think we're gonna end up with very similar results actually.

I'm doing without the hcg so will have to compare ball pics at some point yeah?  smallest wins!

Suprised you got so much pip I had hardly none first jab. Did straight after shower maybe try that?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm also doing DNP for 4 weeks and eating 1800 cals for the month after I finish that, should getting my abs out hopefully, not too fussed about gaining LBM, it'll just be a bonus.

That's an 8 week advantage you'll have over me 

I'm actually just waiting for my HCG to turn up, been having a nightmare with DRS 

Will try a hot shower Thursday morning


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

After speaking to @ausbuilt , I've decided to frontload this cycle and run the Test400 at 800mg(2ml) per week for the next 4 weeks, then go back to 1.5ml until week 12.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> I've actually got DOMS in my glutes so bad, that I can't notice the PIP ache I've been having.
> 
> Rest day today, will be mostly staying indoors and doing fvck all :thumb:


as said in PM's, that most likely as you have virgin glutes :devil2: and using a HARPOON (23g Blue); you can fit a 25g orange needle IN the hole of the 23g Blue... to put it in perspective!!! the orange also slows the rate at which you can put the oil in, which helps too..


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> as said in PM's, that most likely as you have virgin glutes :devil2: and using a HARPOON (23g Blue); you can fit a 25g orange needle IN the hole of the 23g Blue... to put it in perspective!!! the orange also slows the rate at which you can put the oil in, which helps too..


It certainly does! I used an orange for first time other day (1" in quad) I could barely feel anything! Totally different to blues and greens which no matter what anybody says - actually sting a bit!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I can get orange pins from my local needle exchange, if I can get there before Thursday I'll do my quads with the orange.

If that's not possible it'll be another blue in my other glute :sad:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Just stick that damn blue in :laugh:

My second time doing it i was laughing.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Chest and Triceps!

Bench - 85kg 5,5,4 - PB!!!!!

Dumbell press - 27.5kg x 10, 9, 8

BW Dips 10,10,8

Smith machine Cgbp 30kg+bar 12, 10, 9

Tricep pull downs, weight 10x15, wt 12x11, wt 12x 8 (weights numbered 1-15, don't know KG)

Actually had an amazing session. Triceps are pumped to death!!!

I never usually get a pump like this, might be to do with eating lots of carbs recently, or ECA I took :lol:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Chest and Triceps!
> 
> Bench - 85kg 5,5,4 - PB!!!!!
> 
> ...


Try alternating CGBP with skull crushers, theyve really helped me gain on triceps. :thumb:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Try alternating CGBP with skull crushers, theyve really helped me gain on triceps. :thumb:


I did want to do them actually but the smith machine was free so I seized the moment :lol:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I did want to do them actually but the smith machine was free so I seized the moment :lol:


haha yeah CGBP is still a great exercise for mass! can go to failure on it too because of guards. :thumb:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> haha yeah CGBP is still a great exercise for mass! can go to failure on it too because of guards. :thumb:


Precisely, training alone sucks 

Got one of my mates joining me for back and bis tomorrow, gonna try and deadlift 172.5kg for 5, wishful thinking!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

You can do it mate. Some added positivity with all that test pumping through your system :thumb:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> You can do it mate. Some added positivity with all that test pumping through your system :thumb:


Doesn't Test 400 take a good few weeks to actually kick in though? :whistling:

I have doubts in myself, also have doubts on whether my mate is gonna actually come :sad:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Not a bad session at all! Didn't leave the gym pumped, like I did with chest and tris yesterday.

I was a bit gutted with my deadlift today, loaded the bar up so it was 172.5kg and only managed 3 and a half reps (couldn't lock out on the 4th). After a little rest I stripped the bar down, only to find I'd loaded it up to be 175kg! Not too bad ayyyy!

Anyway, here's the session

Deadlift 175kg x 3 and a half

Bent over rows 60kg x 11, x 7 x 5

Close grip pull downs weight 11 x 12, x 11, x 12

Standing machine curls, weight 10 x 12, 12, 8

Seated dumbell curls 17.5kg x 8, 15kg x 10, 15kg x 8


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Also, my pinned glute was giving me some jip when I was deadlifting. Had a look when I got home and it's swollen, like really swollen.

It's not aching right now so I'm hoping it'll just go down overnight.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Alright mate, that's some great deadlifting!

Test400 will take around 3-5 weeks to kick in strength wise. But pumps in the gym and libido/acne etc will start way before then, like week 1-2, also I notice greater focus and hunger early on too.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Alright mate, that's some great deadlifting!
> 
> Test400 will take around 3-5 weeks to kick in strength wise. But pumps in the gym and libido/acne etc will start way before then, like week 1-2, also I notice greater focus and hunger early on too.


Well it's alright, still gutted I couldn't hit 5 reps though!

I won't even bother trying 172.5kg next week, I'll keep at 175kg until I get those 5 reps.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Good deadlifting mate. Might not have kicked in but it's in your system and in therefore in your mind now :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Good deadlifting mate. Might not have kicked in but it's in your system and in therefore in your mind now :laugh:


I'll just have to agree with you on that one 

Looking forward to Thursday now, jab day followed by shoulders!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I think my metabolism is going crazy, had my standard breakfast of oats, whey, milk and all bran, smashed 2 large plates of Xmas dinner, and deserts, and now I'm hungry again!!!!

Swelling has definitely gone down in my glute, I put it down to those deadlifts yesterday!!

Still really excited about jabbing on Thursday. I'm training with another one of my mates who I think has done gear, I'm also thinking of telling him about my usage..


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just had my second jab, surprisingly it went really well. Used a 1 1/4" blue to my left glute. So far so good, it's not aching half as much as it was this time last week :thumb:

Took a bit longer to inject this time, think that's probably why it's fine.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Just had my second jab, surprisingly it went really well. Used a 1 1/4" blue to my left glute. So far so good, it's not aching half as much as it was this time last week :thumb:
> 
> Took a bit longer to inject this time, think that's probably why it's fine.


That reminds me its jab day for me!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> That reminds me its jab day for me!


I'm wishing away my Christmas holidays, waiting for my next jabs :lol:


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Hope all is going well with the cycle mate!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

The L Man said:


> Hope all is going well with the cycle mate!


So far so good mate, had a great chest session last week, the other days were ok. I'm not struggling to get the food in anyway, always had a big appetite.

I'd weigh myself this week, but I'd have put on weight from glycogen stores being refilled, I trained the last few months on low carbs, since I've started my cycle, I've ramped the carbs up.

Got shoulders today and then legs tomorrow, we'll see how those sessions go


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Shoulders!

Great session, even though 2 of my gym partners pied me off, both due to hangovers.

DB press 27.5kg x 7,5 25kg x 5

Behind neck press, Smith machine bar + 20kg each side 9,11,8

Face pulls EZ bar + 30kg x 12,10,10

Lateral raises (strict form) 10kg x 10 reps+2girly ones, 8 reps+2 girly ones

Noticed a lot more vascularity in my forearms today. Again, could be down to having more carbs in my diet and not being so flat all the time.

Still not getting any bother from this morning's injection. Today is a good day


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Spoke to soon, my glute is aching... AGAIN!

Gonna take 2 Ibuprofens and get myself off to bed. Doing legs tomorrow too, it's gonna be interesting..


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs!

ATG Squats - Bar x20, 60kgx 8, 100kg x 5, 5, 5

Hack Squat - 80kg x 12, 100kg x 9, 10

Leg extensions - weight 16 x10, 12, 12

Stiff Legged Deadlifts - 80kg x 10, 10, 8

Seated calf raises - 40kgx16, 50kgx20, 60kgx15

Sweated like a bastrd through the entire session!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Postman came today, look what he brought!



Some orange pins and insulin needles for HCG


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I was given a bottle of injectable Dbol when I ordered my BSI stuff.

Just pinned 0.5ml into each tricep, gonna do this everynight, hoping to see some local growth :thumb:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I was given a bottle of injectable Dbol when I ordered my BSI stuff.
> 
> Just pinned 0.5ml into each tricep, gonna do this everynight, hoping to see some local growth :thumb:


Its a pre workout I think mate. Its in and out of your system very quickly and is best used before going to the gym.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I was given a bottle of injectable Dbol when I ordered my BSI stuff.
> 
> Just pinned 0.5ml into each tricep, gonna do this everynight, hoping to see some local growth :thumb:


I know people who have seen excellent local growth with injectable Dbol should be interesting.

What strength is it?

Ideally you should do 2x shots per day, 12 hours apart :thumbup:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Are the orange pins about the same size as the slin pins mate? If so that's a tiny pin lol.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Its a pre workout I think mate. Its in and out of your system very quickly and is best used before going to the gym.


I've asked in the BSI thread about it and someone on there told me to do it everynight before bed. I also saw a post by Chillsi that said he injects it an hour before the gym. I'll be pinning 1ml again tomorrow.



IronPhil said:


> I know people who have seen excellent local growth with injectable Dbol should be interesting.
> 
> What strength is it?
> 
> Ideally you should do 2x shots per day, 12 hours apart :thumbup:


50mg/100ml. I'm not taking it at that rate lol! I'm only taking it until this bottle runs out. Think I'll buy a few bottles to kickstart my next cycle, though 



bigtommay said:


> Are the orange pins about the same size as the slin pins mate? If so that's a tiny pin lol.


Nooooo my orange pins are 1" long, insulin pins are tiny!!! I pulled it out the pack and took the orange cap off the end, seriously couldn't believe how small the needle was lol! Zero PIP too


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Haha i mean is it like the same sort of gauge?

I wouldnt be able to get the slin pin through the fat on my ass :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Haha i mean is it like the same sort of gauge?
> 
> I wouldnt be able to get the slin pin through the fat on my ass :laugh:


Nah, you can barely see a slin pin, think mine are 29g. The orange pins are 25g so a bit thicker.

Ausbuilt told me that you can actually fit an orange pin inside a blue, that thin..

Should get less PIP from the orange too.

Looking forward to doing my quads, glutes are so awkward to pin, for me


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

subbing in mate


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs!

Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5

Hack Squat - 105kg x 10,10,10

Leg Extensions - weight 16 x 12,12,12

Calf Raises - 60kg x 20,18,18

Good session with my mate, had to wrap it up after leg extensions, thighs were killing!

3rd jab in the morning, looking forward to it. Shoulders tomorrow.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Legs!
> 
> Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Good to have an update mate!

Nice squatting, how comes such low reps on the squat is that your plan?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Good to have an update mate!
> 
> Nice squatting, how comes such low reps on the squat is that your plan?


It's not the best, used to be able to do 125kg ATG for 3x5! Struggle so bad with 100kg ATG 

I've always kept reps low for my compound lifts, not really sure why, just have. On back day I'll start with deadlifts for 5 reps, chest I start with bench for 5 reps, 3 sets.


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Subbed, good progression going on. How are the dbol injections in the tricep


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sku11fk said:


> Subbed, good progression going on. How are the dbol injections in the tricep


I gave up doing them mate, I think I managed 3 days but the pip was killing me, could barely move my arms!

I read on here about pinning 0.5ml into two areas an hour before the gym, I didn't notice any difference in my sessions at all.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just pinned my third T400 shot.

Used a 1" orange into my right quad, the only ache I had was actually injecting the stuff, feels weird going in, but it's fine now. Did a couple of one legged squats lol.

Got shoulders this afternoon, hopefully I can get a mate to come with me


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Not sure what's up with me but I've felt like sh!t all afternoon haven't been to the gym today. Just had a bath and now I'm heading to bed.

My leg has been throbbing all day, got a proper limp on too. Hopefully if tomorrow's a better day, I'll do chest/shoulders/tris together.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Not sure what's up with me but I've felt like sh!t all afternoon haven't been to the gym today. Just had a bath and now I'm heading to bed.
> 
> My leg has been throbbing all day, got a proper limp on too. Hopefully if tomorrow's a better day, I'll do chest/shoulders/tris together.


Unlucky mate best thing is to not let it get you down!

You'll be alright I used to do chest shoulders tris together anyway, is a nice session!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Barely slept all night, honestly couldn't stop sweating. Went through over a litre of water all night just to keep cool. Reminds me of doing 500mg DNP each day, last June :lol:

Feeling kinda sh!tty today, still hoping to make the gym this afternoon though.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

You started on the 20th December, how do you feel?

Gained any weight?

Do you feel stronger?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Think I might have a bit of flu coming on. I feel like sh!te and very lethargic.

Still limping when I walk. At times my right leg turns to jelly and I almost fall over.

Taken lots of Vitamin C and water on board, also just took 2 Beecham's flu pills. My mother's treating us to Pizza tonight, haven't eaten any real junk food in a while. Hopefully I'll be well tomorrow.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

madocks said:


> You started on the 20th December, how do you feel?
> 
> Gained any weight?
> 
> Do you feel stronger?


Only just saw your comment.

Well, right now I feel like ****.

Not sure on weight gain, I'm staying at my mum's over xmas, as soon as I go back to mine, I'll use my scales and report back 

Haven't noticed any significant strength gains, most lifts have gone up but I'd expect that; before I was carb cycling and keeping calories low. Now I'm eating lots of good carbs, proteins and fats, I'd imagine that I'd gain a bit of strength.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Still got a bad leg today, not as bad as it's been though. Also, popped another 2 flu pills through the night, woken up feeling fine :thumb:

Just taken some photos, week 3 progress and also pre-DNP photos.





Also, I don't want to hear anything about my boxers.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Biceps and quads particularly looking good mate, they've come on alot already!

Everything looks fuller in general.

Also I swear you've lost a bit from your waist do you think that's true?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Also, I don't want to hear anything about my hotpants. :whistling:


A marked improvement though mate, keep it up.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Aww you guys are the best!



IronPhil said:


> Biceps and quads particularly looking good mate, they've come on alot already!
> 
> Everything looks fuller in general.
> 
> Also I swear you've lost a bit from your waist do you think that's true?


I actually bought 32" waist jeans this week, first time I've worn that size in a few years..



onthebuild said:


> A marked improvement though mate, keep it up.


That quote! :lol:

Thanks mate, means a lot :thumb:


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I actually bought 32" waist jeans this week, first time I've worn that size in a few years..


Nice one son!

I wouldn't mind losing a bit during my cycle. Are you doing any cardio?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Nice one son!
> 
> I wouldn't mind losing a bit during my cycle. Are you doing any cardio?


Not over Xmas I haven't :lol:

Been eating lots, easily over 3000 cals with about 300-320g protein. I'll weigh myself tomorrow.

I start DNP tomorrow, I'll also get back on the cardio on Monday.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Didnt get on with DNP myself, got all the sides, fvck all results. Had better results with ECA or clen than DNP. God knows why.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've gone downhill today :sad:

Woken up with blocked nose, achey sinuses, sore throat, chesty cough etc., is this test flu I've read of??

Was due to start DNP today, I'm not sure if it would help with sweating the cold out, but I'm not gonna bother now. Maybe I'll start in the week, if I feel better.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I've gone downhill today :sad:
> 
> Woken up with blocked nose, achey sinuses, sore throat, chesty cough etc., is this test flu I've read of??
> 
> Was due to start DNP today, I'm not sure if it would help with sweating the cold out, but I'm not gonna bother now. Maybe I'll start in the week, if I feel better.


Sounds like a premium case of man flu.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Sounds like a premium case of man flu.


Still feeling like sh!t today. Throat is a little worse, if anything.

Think I'm still gonna hit the gym today..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Weighed myself today for the first time this cycle. 3 weeks in and I'm up to 86.7kg from 85kg.

Put on 1.7kg and lost a bit of fat from my midsection 

I didn't go crazy with food and drink over xmas, trained well and got lots of rest.

I start work again tomorrow, looking forward to getting back into my routine and smashing the gym in the coming months


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Chest!

Bench - 87.5kg 3,3,3 - Bit disappointed with this, managed 85kg for 5 reps on all sets last week so I added 2.5kg on. MORE REPS NEXT WEEK!!

Dumbell press - 28kg 11,9,7

Dumbell flies - 15kg x 3, 12kg x 10,10 - Absolutely shocking at these

Dumbell pullovers - 26kg x 10,9,9

BW dips - 9,8,3

Not a bad session considering I have flu. Had massive pumps in my triceps during dips, had to cut the last set short.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Back!

Deadlifts - 60kg x 10, 100kg x 10, 140kg x 10, 175kg x2. Gutted I only got 2 reps on 175, hopefully next week I'll get the 5!

Close Grip Pull Downs - 61kg x 10,9,7

Pendlay rows - 40kg x 10, 50kg x 10, 60kg x 8. First time I've ever done these

Low rows - 70kg x 10,10, 8

Finished off with a few sets of hammer curls.

Decent session, gutted about the deadlifts, had insane pumps in my forearms after the pull downs.

Rest day tomorrow, doing legs on Thursday :thumb:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

The pumps are awesome huh mate?

Thats still a heavy deadlift mate. Has it went down or something?

I was wondering as well do you always ramp up to the one heavy set for stuff like deads?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> The pumps are awesome huh mate?
> 
> Thats still a heavy deadlift mate. Has it went down or something?
> 
> I was wondering as well do you always ramp up to the one heavy set for stuff like deads?


It was ok at first, anything over 8 reps is agony :lol:

Last week I managed 175kg for 3.5 reps, today I only managed 2. This week I have flu and I didn't take any Ephedrine or Caffeine, that might be why!

I ramp it up just so I'm warmed up for my working weight. I could jump straight in at 175 and get 5 reps, but my hamstrings and lower back would ache the next day..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> It was ok at first, anything over 8 reps is agony :lol:
> 
> Last week I managed 175kg for 3.5 reps, today I only managed 2. This week I have flu and I didn't take any Ephedrine or Caffeine, that might be why!
> 
> I ramp it up just so I'm warmed up for my working weight. I could jump straight in at 175 and get 5 reps, but my hamstrings and lower back would ache the next day..


Ahh i didnt know you were using ephedrine. Ive never tried anyting like that.

Ah yeah. I used to train the exact same way aiming for 5-8 reps final set.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Ahh i didnt know you were using ephedrine. Ive never tried anyting like that.
> 
> Ah yeah. I used to train the exact same way aiming for 5-8 reps final set.


I only took it that day for the buzz, I never normally train with any preworkout stuff or other stims. I might take it when I'm on DNP, if I feel lethargic on back/leg days.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just took my first 250mg cap of D Hacks' DNP. So far, so good!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Shoulders and triceps!

Behind neck press, smith machine - 60kg x 10, 62.5kg x 10, 65kg x 9, 67.5kg x 7

DB press - 22kg 9,7,5 - usually use 26/28 for this when I do it as a first exercise

Lateral raises - 10kg x 9,7 7.5kg x 11

Front Raises - 7.5kg x 10,8

Skull crushers 20kg x 12, 22.5kg x 7, 20kg x 8

Had insane pumps in my right shoulder throughout the session. Decent session though, maybe feeling slightly hindered by the DNP.

Legs tomorrow


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just had my 4th injection, went quite well. So chilled out watching Taken 2 

Then I realised that today is leg day, I'm gonna give it a miss, my leg is aching already, no doubt it'll get worse as the day goes on. Hopefully I'll be able to train in the morning


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Barely slept last night, was in agony with my leg.

Weightloss is coming along well with DNP, 3.5kg gone in 5 days.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Barely slept last night, was in agony with my leg.
> 
> Weightloss is coming along well with DNP, 3.5kg gone in 5 days.


Is the dnp keeping you up too? Major night sweats yet?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Is the dnp keeping you up too? Major night sweats yet?


Nope, no night sweats or insomnia because of the DNP. If I moved at all my leg would hurt and it would wake me up!

I'll pin my right quad again next Thursday, if it hurts like this again, I'm gonna go back to glutes.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

4 weeks into my cycle now, I've started to notice that I have no libido at all. Can't remember the last time I had a hard on, or a w4nk! Feeling pretty down too, not sure why though.

Keto diet is doing my head in, I'm lucky to poo every other day. I really miss eating oats.

No real gains as yet, should've added a kicker to this cycle.

Also, my left leg is still hurting and I have a funny limp.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Chest and triceps!

BB Bench - 87.5kg x 4,5,3 ----> Last week I only managed 3,3,3 so an increase in reps.

DB Press - 28kg x 10, 8, 6

Pec Dec - 11th weight x 7, 10th weight x 9,7

BW Dips 10, 6, 6

Smith Machine CGBP - 60kg x 7, 55kg x 7, 50kg x 10

Tricep Push Downs - 50kg x 12, 55kg x 10, 57kg x 8, 60kg x 6.

Very enjoyable session! Still not sure if I'm feeling the effects of the test yet though..

Had a nice pump too, despite the DNP, also noticed more vascular forearms.


----------



## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Also getting moderate pip from the bsi t400 mate. Only my 2nd cycle and I had three moths off in between so maybe legs returned to virgin mode.

Yesterday pinned left quad nice and high up. Very steady and deep with a blue. Had a hot bath after, couldn't of gone better but today killer pip lol.

On the up side I seem to have taken on some water retention allready and better mood, though could be placebo.

Might be picking up some dbols from my mate, depends if what he's got is good


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sku11fk said:


> Also getting moderate pip from the bsi t400 mate. Only my 2nd cycle and I had three moths off in between so maybe legs returned to virgin mode.
> 
> Yesterday pinned left quad nice and high up. Very steady and deep with a blue. Had a hot bath after, couldn't of gone better but today killer pip lol.
> 
> ...


Everyone else says the BSI stuff is PIP free!!!

I wouldn't use a blue in my quads, use an orange, can't really feel it going in. I've got a rugby game on Sunday so I'm still thinking about where/when to pin this week so that I'll be aching the least. If I can get hold of a blue, I'll stick it in my glute. I'm hoping now to have 'opened' my quads for future injections, we'll see...


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Yea I need to get hold of some oranges just im in the middle of a move so timing is bad. I wouldn't want them arriving late and my mum taking delivery of them while I'd moved out lol. Im hoping because I've only done one cycle before that the break in between has made my legs sensitive again. Few weeks will tell, it's certainly not enough to make me want to quit cycle knowing the gains I can potentially make.

I've never done glutes before I think im too fat to reach lol, how do you do it lay on side?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sku11fk said:


> Yea I need to get hold of some oranges just im in the middle of a move so timing is bad. I wouldn't want them arriving late and my mum taking delivery of them while I'd moved out lol. Im hoping because I've only done one cycle before that the break in between has made my legs sensitive again. Few weeks will tell, it's certainly not enough to make me want to quit cycle knowing the gains I can potentially make.
> 
> I've never done glutes before I think im too fat to reach lol, how do you do it lay on side?


I know what you mean mate, ordered all my stuff to my mate's house, my mother's a nosey bugger, loves asking questions!

On your previous cycle, when did you start to notice strength and size? I'm not sure if I'll see any gains because of being on DNP and lowish cals...

Pinning glutes is easy if you're flexible lol, I just twist my body and pop it in, easy peasy. PIP wasn't half as bad as it's been for my quads!


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Mothers, who'd have em eh!

I did a vanilla test.e 500mg pw 14 weeker, felt like nothing until week 6 then every day waas noticing gains lol. up until around week 11 or 12. Strength was the best though I was doing like a powerbuilding type split with heavy compounds at first exercise. Gained my 3 plate bench wings, 200k squat but missed my 100k OHP goal, deadlifts went up well too but I cant rememeber what my max was before cycle.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sku11fk said:


> Mothers, who'd have em eh!
> 
> I did a vanilla test.e 500mg pw 14 weeker, felt like nothing until week 6 then every day waas noticing gains lol. up until around week 11 or 12. Strength was the best though I was doing like a powerbuilding type split with heavy compounds at first exercise. Gained my 3 plate bench wings, 200k squat but missed my 100k OHP goal, deadlifts went up well too but I cant rememeber what my max was before cycle.


Holy sh!te, that's some going! That's how I train too, get the compounds done first then move onto other stuff. Currently my bench is at 87.5, squat 100, deadlift 175

(working weights btw)

Week 6 then, might as well chill out on the couch and eat pizza for the next 2 weeks :lol:


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Well if you eat like an animal and dont mind putting on some fat then your lifts should all be on the up once it kicks in. Im cutting on this cycle like yourself so I dunno whats gonna happen with strength, I think you still gain some because of the leverage that water retention gives you, I lost a fair bit of strength after my cycle. Also I lost the mega pump and aggression in gym. But hopefully that all comes back 6 weeks feels like a loooong time right now


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Weeks 3-7 I'll be on DNP

Weeks 4-9 I'll be eating ~2000 cals until my thyroid recovers, to minimise a fat gain rebound after DNP.

Weeks 10-13 will be 3 weeks of lots of protein with moderate carbs and fats, hopefully put on some muscle in those 3 weeks.

Then weeks 13-16 will be between my PCT, hoping to have enough test in my system to still make gains here.

I'll stay lean after this cycle then run the same cycle again in November but maybe use an injectable dbol kickstart, and eat a lot more :lol:


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

I dont know anything about DNP, but it sounds as if you know what your doing. I wish I had cut then bulked because I wasn't exactly thin when I started cycle but it was around PCT and after that I had no choice but to carry on bulking as to not loose gains. Now Im a bit fat lol, in fairness I've started new cycle on a cut and will probably end on a cut then cruise instead of PCT and then hit a big deca and test cycle few months later. Its all upto debate anyway. Heres a horrid pic of how I am now few months after PCT of first cycle



Wish I hadnt got this fat but atleast ekpt my gains they here to stay


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Link to my DNP log, have a look through http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/207697-tom90s-dnp-log-pics.html

I won't be dieting anytime soon after PCT, I've heard that's the quickest way to lose any gains you make!!!

The only reason I'm on gear now is because I wanted to minimise muscle loss, maybe even gain some LBM, whilst trying to get cut.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Back and biceps!

Deadlift - 60kg x 10, 100kg x 10, 172.5kg x 2.5 reps. Managed to get it up to my knees on the last rep, couldn't lock out. Still an improvement in last week.

Bent over row - 60kg x 10,9,7

Lat pull downs - 61.5kg x 10,8,6

Face pulls - smith bar + 20kg x 12, 25kg x 12, 30kg x 8. I always thought this hits shoulders the most, it ached my shoulders doing it anyway, stubborn training partner..

DB Hammer curls - 15kg x 10,9,9

Concentration curls - did 10kg with these but didn't record reps, must've forgot!


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Well your ideals are reasonable I think theres no reason why you cant attain that mate, I'll take a look at that DNP log


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

@simonthepieman what is a reputation point? Just had a notification saying I had one off you?? How do I return one?



Sku11fk said:


> Well your ideals are reasonable I think theres no reason why you cant attain that mate, I'll take a look at that DNP log


Time will tell mate 

Cheers!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You can give them by using the star/sherrif badge thing under the avi panel.

I like your posts and your log and thought you deserved it


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> You can give them by using the star/sherrif badge thing under the avi panel.
> 
> I like your posts and your log and thought you deserved it


Everyday is a school day, returned the reps.

Lil bit **** - I actually really appreciate you saying that, it means a lot!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Everyday is a school day, returned the reps.
> 
> Lil bit **** - I actually really appreciate you saying that, it means a lot!


little bit **** is OK. ITs only gay if you push back


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Looking good in here fella, hows the pip?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Looking good in here fella, hows the pip?


Sorry mate, only just seen your post. Still aching a bit, the limp has gone though lol.

I have rugby on Sunday so I'm thinking about pinning my glutes today, just to reduce the amount of PIP I may have by then..

Only thing is, I've only got oranges and greens and there's no chance I'd stick a green in my bum! Gonna use an orange in each glute and pin 0.75ml in each. Gonna push the needle in as far as it'll go, just to reduce any chance of an abscess, thoughts??


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Sorry mate, only just seen your post. Still aching a bit, the limp has gone though lol.
> 
> I have rugby on Sunday so I'm thinking about pinning my glutes today, just to reduce the amount of PIP I may have by then..
> 
> Only thing is, I've only got oranges and greens and there's no chance I'd stick a green in my bum! Gonna use an orange in each glute and pin 0.75ml in each. Gonna push the needle in as far as it'll go, just to reduce any chance of an abscess, thoughts??


Abscess isnt due to how deep your in mate, you'd only get an abscess due to contaminated gear (bacteria in the vial, on the needle etc due to poor hygeine.)

Some people actually pin gear sub q (not into the muscle, into the layer of fat between the skin and the muscle.) Its meant to leave a bit of a lump, and is helped by massaging the site, not too much but every now and again to help disperse the oil. Cant remember the reason why most pin into muscle (im guessing its better for some reason) but for one jab, i cant see it being a problem if it doesnt go deep enough, it wont waste the gear or anything.

Try pinning delts instead if not, should be fine with an orange.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Abscess isnt due to how deep your in mate, you'd only get an abscess due to contaminated gear (bacteria in the vial, on the needle etc due to poor hygeine.)
> 
> Some people actually pin gear sub q (not into the muscle, into the layer of fat between the skin and the muscle.) Its meant to leave a bit of a lump, and is helped by massaging the site, not too much but every now and again to help disperse the oil. Cant remember the reason why most pin into muscle (im guessing its better for some reason) but for one jab, i cant see it being a problem if it doesnt go deep enough, it wont waste the gear or anything.
> 
> Try pinning delts instead if not, should be fine with an orange.


I'd go for delts, but I have shoulders tomorrow..

Also if I get REAL bad PIP and can't lift my arms, I'm gonna get in trouble at work haha. At least with leg PIP, I can sit down and be 'productive' :lol:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom - I cant keep up. You got two fvckin logs lol.

Hows things looking physique wise?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Tom - I cant keep up. You got two fvckin logs lol.
> 
> Hows things looking physique wise?


One is purely for the DNP, rather than have people trawl through this one to find out how I'm getting on, they can just open my log and see what they can expect 

This one is just for workouts, steroids, and other chat.

Right now, I'm looking flatter than ever lol, my arms don't fill my work t shirts anymore!

My sides are looking a bit tighter, I've just compared photos I've taken from today to ones I took on the fifth. I'd deffo say my love handles are going.

I'm not happy with the weightloss so far though, I'm following Aus' protocol to the T and not really getting anywhere. Before I did a higher dose, ate carbs, and still managed to lose a lot more weight!


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I'd go for delts, but I have shoulders tomorrow..
> 
> Also if I get REAL bad PIP and can't lift my arms, I'm gonna get in trouble at work haha. At least with leg PIP, I can sit down and be 'productive' :lol:


True enough mate, best of luck, and cheers for the reps! :beer:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs!

What a sh!t session.

Squats - bar x 10, 60kg x 10, 100kg x 1.5 - got up to 100 and both of my quads were killing me! It was my first time doing squats since I started pinning quads..

Leg extensions - 95kg x 12,12,12 - Increase next week

SLDL - 80kg x 10, 85kg x 10, 87.5kg x 10 - I'll start with 87.5kg next week

Calf raises - 150kg x 20,20,20 increase to 160kg next week.

Finished off my session with 15 minutes flat out on the spinning bike, I was dripping with sweat after 3 minutes, love DNP!!!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Had my 5th injection today, stuck it in my right glute to save myself from awful PIP in quads. Had it a day early because I have rugby Sunday and don't fancy getting knocked about for 80 minutes with bad PIP!!

For the first time ever, I bled like a b!tch, before I could put the needle down I had a blood trail going down to the bottom of my ars3 cheek. Didn't hurt at all though, it's not really hurting right now either.

Strength gains in the next week please!!!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Think today is gonna have to be a rest day, feeling a bit down, not sure why. Also my training partner is asleep. If he pesters me when he wakes up, we'll probably end up going.

I went to circuits this morning, an hour of sweat, body weight exercises and sprints. I only have shoulders left to do this week, I've kinda done some phys today so I don't really mind having a night off from the gym.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Scratch that, off to the gym to do shoulders now


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Scratch that, off to the gym to do shoulders now


Nice. Just come back from shoulders, felt giod very aggressive I'm the gym can tell the test is about to kick in. Easier to tell when you know what to look for.

Did some doubles on overhead press. Got upto 80kg  . I will have a 2 plate press in 14 weeks.

Will wait to hear back what your sessions like


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Shoulders!

DB Press - 15kg x 10, 26kg x 8,8,6

Behind neck press (smith machine) - bar+45kg x 8, bar+47.5kg x 5,5

Lat raise - 7.5kg x 12,12,8 - slow and controlled

BB shrug - 101kg x 10,10,7

Not a bad session at all. Week 5 of my cycle and still haven't noticed any real strength increases. Probably due to DNP affecting Mitochondria, or that maybe the test will kick in next week.


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

You not noticed any slight increase in endurance or aggression in the gym?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sku11fk said:


> You not noticed any slight increase in endurance or aggression in the gym?


Not at all mate. After DNP I'll start eating more, see how I get on. Gonna run Prop during the 3 weeks before PCT, hopefully I'll be able to keep making gains right up until PCT.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've already done back, chest, legs and shoulders this week, I'll use today and the weekend as rest/cardio days.

I've decided to go back to a legs/push/pull split, Mon/Wed/Fri, purely so I can do a bit more cardio on my days off, and give myself a chance to rest.

I'll start off with legs on Monday :thumb:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Not at all mate. After DNP I'll start eating more, see how I get on. Gonna run Prop during the 3 weeks before PCT, hopefully I'll be able to keep making gains right up until PCT.


Haven't noticed any additional aggression either. Nothing like that.

I wonder if its just in some peoples heads lol.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Haven't noticed any additional aggression either. Nothing like that.
> 
> I wonder if its just in some peoples heads lol.


I've had 5 injections so far. Apart from 5 weeks of limping, I've not really noticed anything.

Had lots of random hard ons at the beginning, these days I never get one and never feel in the mood, libido is low.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I've had 5 injections so far. Apart from 5 weeks of limping, I've not really noticed anything.
> 
> Had lots of random hard ons at the beginning, these days I never get one and never feel in the mood, libido is low.


I don't get random ragers like people describe but i definitely have an increased appetite for it. A day doesnt go by where i dont want it a few times per day abd i keep finding myself with my hand down my pants which i dont normally do lol

Mood swings, aggression etc though. Nope, im no different. Only physical sides like greasier, sensitive nipples (until i upped adex), sweatier, reduced sleep quality.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I don't get random ragers like people describe but i definitely have an increased appetite for it. A day doesnt go by where i dont want it a few times per day abd i keep finding myself with my hand down my pants which i dont normally do lol
> 
> Mood swings, aggression etc though. Nope, im no different. Only physical sides like greasier, sensitive nipples (until i upped adex), sweatier, reduced sleep quality.


If I do run another cycle, I'll definitely start it off with some Test Prop or Dbol, it feels like I'm forever waiting for the T400 to kick in. I've read it takes 4-6 weeks so we'll see.

My right nipple was a bit sore in the first 2 weeks but that stops, I have some gyno from puberty, unfortunately.

I always feel tired and sweat now and again, that's probably due to the DNP though. At least it's the weekend now, I'll treat myself to an extra hour or two in bed tomorrow 

I'm gonna go for some fasted cardio when I wake, then get a fat bowl of oats down me


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Chances are your allready serin some effects its just on a first cycle its starts so subtle you wont know what to look for.

Once you start getting better errections or feel slightly more energetic its starting to show sides.

Now on my second cycle I can tell I'm changing alot easier. Few extra boners than the norm in a day. And aggressive in the gym.

Aggressive not as in my mood, I don't feel angry on test. Aggressive in the gym meaning I'm attacking it harder already. Aggression is important, kai greene talks of calling on aggression to get those last reps out.

Same thing I'm feeling, going further in sets.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm usually aggressive and focused in the gym anyway, maybe that's why I can't notice it.

I think it's just a waiting game from now..


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Get some dbol mate, you'll notice that quick! :thumb:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Get some dbol mate, you'll notice that quick! :thumb:


I did have some BSI injectable dbol, didn't get on with it though. It was fine in my triceps but had major DOMS in my biceps. Wish I kept taking it though.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I did have some BSI injectable dbol, didn't get on with it though. It was fine in my triceps but had major DOMS in my biceps. Wish I kept taking it though.


Should have just jabbed it in delts/ glutes/ quads mate


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I read on here that it can be injected sub q, just use it IM for a boost before the gym.

If I do decide to go for another cycle, it'll either be T400 with dbol kicker, or Test Prop for 4 weeks. That won't be until the end of the year though, if I do..


----------



## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

Thats what I said, first cycle. I started without dbol though again but picking some up today if I can track down my source


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sku11fk said:


> Thats what I said, first cycle. I started without dbol though again but picking some up today if I can track down my source


My aim for this cycle is just to recomp, try and gain a bit of muscle while losing fat. The next cycle would involve lots of eating to grow


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs!

Squats - bar x 8, 60kg x 8, 100kg x 5,5,5 - Found these very difficult, my right glute would kill if I went below parallel. Can't see my legs growing much on this cycle tbh :sad:

Leg extensions - 100kg x 12,12,12 - 5kg up from last week.

Stiff legged DL - 87.5kg x 10,10,10 - will up it to 90/92.5kg next week

Standing calf machine - 160kg x 20,20,20 - up to 170kg next week

Got rugby Sunday so I'll pin tomorrow, a day early I know, but hopefully shouldn't have much PIP by then.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Had my 6th pin this morning after going for a run, had no PIP all day, had a cheeky power hour just now and it's aching a bit, still no where near as bad as it's been.

Used a syringe with a 5ml capacity instead of my usual 2ml, I found it helped out with pinning slowly.

Rest day today, chest shoulders and triceps tomorrow


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Had my 6th pin this morning after going for a run, had no PIP all day, had a cheeky power hour just now and it's aching a bit, still no where near as bad as it's been.
> 
> Used a syringe with a 5ml capacity instead of my usual 2ml, I found it helped out with pinning slowly.
> 
> Rest day today, chest shoulders and triceps tomorrow


Nice mate! Did my second set of jabs monday, 2.5ml in glute, 1ml in delt. Feeling a bit of pip in delt but its first time pinning my right delt!


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Had my 6th pin this morning after going for a run, had no PIP all day, had a cheeky power hour just now and it's aching a bit, still no where near as bad as it's been.
> 
> Used a syringe with a 5ml capacity instead of my usual 2ml, I found it helped out with pinning slowly.
> 
> Rest day today, chest shoulders and triceps tomorrow


My left glute is in agony today after Mondays jab. I seriously can't walk properly. At this rate I won't being doing legs tomorrow. Squatting is impossible with an injection pain lol.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I love post injection squatting


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Nice mate! Did my second set of jabs monday, 2.5ml in glute, 1ml in delt. Feeling a bit of pip in delt but its first time pinning my right delt!


I'm gonna look at doing posterior delts when I start test prop, I thought I'd read that delts are painless.



 The L Man said:


> My left glute is in agony today after Mondays jab. I seriously can't walk properly. At this rate I won't being doing legs tomorrow. Squatting is impossible with an injection pain lol.


I know that feel. I've actually started doing legs right before jab day, otherwise I'd never have a good leg session. Monday's session wasn't too bad, this is the firs time I've had leg DOMS in a long while!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

My gym partner fell asleep and when he woke, he didn't want to go to the gym. Sick of relying on him tbh. Could've gone at 12PM with a lad from work but I said no so I could go with my usual partner

Today is push day so I need a spotter, we're gonna go tomorrow night instead. No gains.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

So today I started getting a dull ache in my right nipple, took 20mg Nolva about 2 hours ago and I can't feel it now. Throughout my cycle I've been taking 0.5mg Adex EOD.

Any need for me to change my adex dose?

Will update with today's training later on.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Chest, shoulders and triceps!

BB Bench - 87.5kg 5,4,3 - absolutely gutted with this, actually thought I'd get 5 on all sets!

Smith machine behind neck press - bar +20kg x 10, +40kg x 10, +50kg x 7,9

DB Bench - 28kg x 7,8,7 - actually dropped the dumbell on my chest on the 8th rep of the 1st set, just stopped concentrating I think.

Lateral raises, strict form - 7kg x 15,13,11

Finished off with some tricep exercises, didn't make a note of reps or weights though.

6 injections in and I haven't noticed a thing. Bit gutted to be honest. Despite being on DNP and ~2000 cals, I thought I'd have made some sort of gains, whether they be strength or size!


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Chest, shoulders and triceps!
> 
> BB Bench - 87.5kg 5,4,3 - absolutely gutted with this, actually thought I'd get 5 on all sets!
> 
> ...


Gutted for you mate!

I'm on a lower dose than you and I'm more than happy and strength and mass shooting up!

How many grams protein you getting in a day?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

It varies day to day, but I'd say around 200-220, some days up to 250. Fats are usually around 90-100g each day so I'm sticking to 1800 cals a day, just while I'm on DNP.

Obviously when I come off the stuff I'll be at around 350 and lots of carbs, should easily hit 4000 cals a day.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Went to the gym earlier, did back and biceps, forgot to log the workout though!

I didn't do deadlifts today, I have rugby in the morning and could do without the ache..

Had a compliment off my housemate/gym partner earlier, said he could notice a change in me, especially since after xmas. I don't feel as if I've put on any size, feel flat and weak from keto.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs

Squats - bar x 10, bar +40kg x 10, bar + 60kg x 10, bar +80kg x 5,3. On the second set of my working weight I thought fvck this. I HATE SQUATTING WITH A SMITH MACHINE. I'm not doing it anymore. My sh!tty gym doesn't have a power rack and I'm sick of it, won't be doing squats anymore.

Leg extensions 105kg x 12,12,11 PB. Up to 110kg next week

SLDL - 90kg x 10,10,10 PB. Up to 92.5kg next week

Standing calf raises 165kg x 20,20,20 PB. Up to 170kg next week

Saving chest until the end of the week, think I've done something to my collar bone.. Back and bis on Wednesday, hoping for some PBs with pull ups and deadlifts!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I would leave that gym for dead lol. In fact thats what i had to do as pieman was kicking my ass for smith machine squatting lol.

Re. Keto. I know f all about it mate but on one of the pt's threads on this board he said keto should have a ratiof 1:3 or 1:4 in the favour of fats otherwise it isnt keto. As i said know nothin about it just read that last week. Think it was like 60g protein per day he was using.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I would leave that gym for dead lol. In fact thats what i had to do as pieman was kicking my ass for smith machine squatting lol.
> 
> Re. Keto. I know f all about it mate but on one of the pt's threads on this board he said keto should have a ratiof 1:3 or 1:4 in the favour of fats otherwise it isnt keto. As i said know nothin about it just read that last week. Think it was like 60g protein per day he was using.


I would but it's a gym at work and it's free, swear it's just for bicep boys though, no leg press or squat rack!

Ai I'm getting plenty of fats in from almonds, fish oils, cheese, meat cuts, olive oil etc.

Bored in work this morning I wrote out a few notes about the rest of my cycle.

My 13th and final T400 injection will be on 14th March

My final day of DNP will be the 8th February, March 1st I'll finally start adding some calories to this cycle.

My 10th and final Test P injection will be 4th April, my PCT will start on Monday 8th May.


----------



## #benjamin (Jan 27, 2013)

interesting read, looking forward to seeing the end result, good luck broskie!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I would but it's a gym at work and it's free, swear it's just for bicep boys though, no leg press or squat rack!
> 
> Ai I'm getting plenty of fats in from almonds, fish oils, cheese, meat cuts, olive oil etc.
> 
> ...


That really does suck mate. I pay a bit more now than i did but its well worth it.

Ah i see. Just that i noticed you said jeto with 200g pro and 90 fats. By this guys reckoning youd need to have 800g fats along eith 209g pro to be in ketosis. Something id need to read into.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> That really does suck mate. I pay a bit more now than i did but its well worth it.
> 
> Ah i see. Just that i noticed you said jeto with 200g pro and 90 fats. By this guys reckoning youd need to have 800g fats along eith 209g pro to be in ketosis. Something id need to read into.


I would do but I work in the middle of no where and when I get home I can't be bothered with the gym, it's easy to do if I've just finished..

I think you have your calorie/grams mixed up. 800g fats is 7200 calories, strong bulk there :lol:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> That really does suck mate. I pay a bit more now than i did but its well worth it.
> 
> Ah i see. Just that i noticed you said jeto with 200g pro and 90 fats. By this guys reckoning youd need to have 800g fats along eith 209g pro to be in ketosis. Something id need to read into.


That's wrong.

With keto. The easy way to do it, is to eat the same volume of fat and protein in grams. With 1g of fat = 9cals and protein =4 cals. It works about right rations for ketosis. Which is 30-35%p -65-70%f

Carbs minimal and 5% tops


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I would do but I work in the middle of no where and when I get home I can't be bothered with the gym, it's easy to do if I've just finished..
> 
> I think you have your calorie/grams mixed up. 800g fats is 7200 calories, strong bulk there :lol:


I dont mate. Lol i know thats a massive bulk but im just basing the fats on your protein intake and the 1:4 ratio he said you need for it to be ketosis. Thats why he was like 50g protein.

Like i said, i know f all about it just happen to have read that


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> That's wrong.
> 
> With keto. The easy way to do it, is to eat the same volume of fat and protein in grams. With 1g of fat = 9cals and protein =4 cals. It works about right rations for ketosis. Which is 30-35%p -65-70%f
> 
> Carbs minimal and 5% tops


I dunno mate. I never looked into it. Just passing on what id read.

Ill post the link to what it was that was written.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm definitely not eating the same amount of fat as protein. 180g protein is 720cals, 180g fat is 1620cals, that would put me at 2340cals, which is quite a bit over my 2000 cals a day..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/200684-dutch-scott-chronicles-2-a-34.html

It was around post 1330

apologies if its wrong. Just stuck in my head


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/200684-dutch-scott-chronicles-2-a-34.html

It was around post 1330

apologies if its wrong. Just stuck in my head


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You are getting calories and macros mixed up. Google ketosis and look into it


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You are getting calories and macros mixed up. Google ketosis and look into it


I'll look into it mate.

I'm not suggesting anything myself was really just going off what this guy said...

"Split into meals - then macro ration per meal 3:1 or in my case 4:1

Ie my meal 1 is easy

40 g fat 10 G protein 0 carb

Maybe my last meal 16g fat 4 G protein"

and

"Thanks for all tht but if u read how ketogenic diets work ud have saved 40000lines

Yes around 50g protein and 220 fats

??? Anything else? I'd explained above

Ration 4:1 must have low protein or body conveys to glucose that's what keto is!

Confused "

The reason it stuck in my head is because i too thought the protein was very low and i thought it was quite a cheeky response to the poor guy lol.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You don't have to go that low to go into ketosis. As another person says. A keto genic diet is one that puts you into ketosis.

Personaly I wouldn't bother unless you are trying to push from low body fat to super lean


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I haven't a clue tbh mate. I've never thought about keto and probably wouldn't.

I just remembered this post when reading Tom's macros on his keto diet - He has 220g protein and 100g fat which is almost a 50/50 split between the two and thought this was substantially different from what i'd read on quoted post.

Is tom in keto then or not? :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Keto/low carbs 

I'm not doing weekly carb ups or anything. Most of the meals I eat contain fats and proteins. Might treat myself to a cuppa tea with some milk now and again!

I'd advise intermittent fasting rather than keto for fatloss. Much easier diet. I lost around 8kg on it from October to January..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

So all it is is loe carbs then? Seems to be different opinions on what this keto is all over the place cos its all about the ratios on that other post lol.

I'll just stick to the choccy biscs cheesecake and chips :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I'll just stick to the choccy biscs cheesecake and chips :laugh:


What I'd give just for the biscuits. Might stop all this gym malarky and just eat junk all day errrday


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

I know fck all about keto but thought I'd pop in and say hi


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> I know fck all about keto but thought I'd pop in and say hi


Thanks.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Back and Biceps

BW pull ups - 9,7,6 PB

Deadlifts - 60kg x 10, 100kg x 10, 175kg x 1 - my reps are decreasing on 175kg, won't be deadlifting again as long as I'm on DNP. I was embarrassed to load the bar up and only get 1

BOR 60kg x 10,9,8 - Can't really improve on these, I'll up it by 2.5kg next week and see what happens

Hammer curls - 15kg x 10,8,7

BW Chin ups - 7 reps. Never done these before so I thought I'd throw them in before I headed home.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Back and Biceps
> 
> BW pull ups - 9,7,6 PB
> 
> ...


Nice work mate.

Chin ups are a classic compound mate they'll add mass to your bis in no time, keep doing them, I have been and it's worked wonders!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Nice work mate.
> 
> Chin ups are a classic compound mate they'll add mass to your bis in no time, keep doing them, I have been and it's worked wonders!


Ai like I said, never done them before. I'll stick at it and see where it gets me, next week I'll throw in 3 sets at the end.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

No training today as it's a rest/cardio day. Push day tomorrow.

Had my 7th injection yesterday, chose to use my right quad again. Slept fine with it all night, woke up this morning like Bambi.

So that's 7 injections of T400 at 1.5ml so far, another 6 to go. Hope the Prop I'll be bridging to PCT with isn't as pippy as this stuff..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Push day

Dumbell bench press 30kg x 9,8,7 - PB. Most I've ever done was 28kg for similar reps

Smith machine behind neck OHP - bar+40kg x 10, bar+49.6kg x 10, bar+52.1kg x 7 - PB. Most I've ever done was 47.5kg on the bar.

Felt like sh!t going to the gym and I'd had enough at this point. Head is throbbing, feeling really lethargic and generally unwell.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Pull day

BW pull ups - 10,7,5 - PB

BOR - 62.5kg x 9,7,5

Lat PD, palms facing me - 61.5kg x 12,8,8

Hammer curls - 15kg x 10,10,10 - increase weight next week.

Dumbell curls - 10kg x 12,10,8,8,8 - 30 seconds rest between these sets, saw veins I'd never seen before!

So nice to have a back session without doing deadlifts! Had a bit of a headache after the first set of pull ups, must be straining too much :lol:


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day
> 
> BW pull ups - 10,7,5 - PB
> 
> ...


Nice mate so upping the weight on your rows worked alright!

You should try doing your db curls on an incline bench, I find that hammers my bis a hell of a lot more! You will need to go down from your normal weight a tad tho.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Nice mate so upping the weight on your rows worked alright!
> 
> You should try doing your db curls on an incline bench, I find that hammers my bis a hell of a lot more! You will need to go down from your normal weight a tad tho.


Yeah it was ok, my head was banging at this point so I can't say I gave it my all. I'll try upping it next week though 

Do you mean doing them seated, but with your back leaning against the seat, while the seat is at an incline angle? That's what I was doing. Lock elbows out fully when the weight is down, to try and isolate the biceps as you bring it back up. Can't go very heavy on it though.

Think I'm gonna do legs on Wednesday, inject Thursday, then do push on Friday. Lots of cardio this week, finishing with DNP on Friday


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Yeah it was ok, my head was banging at this point so I can't say I gave it my all. I'll try upping it next week though
> 
> Do you mean doing them seated, but with your back leaning against the seat, while the seat is at an incline angle? That's what I was doing. Lock elbows out fully when the weight is down, to try and isolate the biceps as you bring it back up. Can't go very heavy on it though.
> 
> Think I'm gonna do legs on Wednesday, inject Thursday, then do push on Friday. Lots of cardio this week, finishing with DNP on Friday


That's exactly what I meant! Seems like you have it all covered!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> That's exactly what I meant! Seems like you have it all covered!!


If I had it all covered, I'd be in much better shape than I am now!

Ate 1800 calories yesterday and today, just to see what it's like for the next 3 weeks, I'm fvcking starving. Hopefully IF will make it easier. Seriously hungry.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Got this little goody in the post today.



Going to run it at 1ml EOD, inbetween my last T400 injection and PCT.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Got this little goody in the post today.
> 
> View attachment 109948
> 
> ...


Slightly jealous... Considering copying...


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Slightly jealous... Considering copying...


No don't! You had the headstart with the Dbol :lol:


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

In regards to the pip, have you tried jabbing other sites, and or with slin pins?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> In regards to the pip, have you tried jabbing other sites, and or with slin pins?


I've done glutes twice with a blue, twice with orange, and quads with an orange the rest of the times I'm going to try quads with a blue tomorrow. I read a post by @stone14 and he basically said that if you're getting PIP everywhere you inject, it's probably down to the oil.

Only thing I've used slin pins for is Dbol and HCG,


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I've done glutes twice with a blue, twice with orange, and quads with an orange the rest of the times I'm going to try quads with a blue tomorrow. I read a post by @stone14 and he basically said that if you're getting PIP everywhere you inject, it's probably down to the oil.
> 
> Only thing I've used slin pins for is Dbol and HCG,


Yeah if your getting pip continuously in every site then im guessing its the oil giving you pip, not the trauma from the needle, so changing needle size wont really do much.

Whats your gear again all BSI? I hear the T400 is a bit nippy, so seems you arent alone.

Would expect the prop to have a bit of a sting too :thumb:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Yeah if your getting pip continuously in every site then im guessing its the oil giving you pip, not the trauma from the needle, so changing needle size wont really do much.
> 
> Whats your gear again all BSI? I hear the T400 is a bit nippy, so seems you arent alone.
> 
> Would expect the prop to have a bit of a sting too :thumb:


Yeah all BSI, not that I'm a rep or anything. I'd be a sh!t rep anyway, moaning about the PIP all the time :lol:

Seriously though, how much is the PIP from Prop going to affect me? I've had PIP for like 50 days out of the 56 days of my cycle.

I'll be putting the Prop in my delts, triceps, maybe biceps and rotate. If it gives me week long PIP, I'll book a week off work so I can do glutes and quads too :lol:


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Yeah all BSI, not that I'm a rep or anything. I'd be a sh!t rep anyway, moaning about the PIP all the time :lol:
> 
> Seriously though, how much is the PIP from Prop going to affect me? I've had PIP for like 50 days out of the 56 days of my cycle.
> 
> I'll be putting the Prop in my delts, triceps, maybe biceps and rotate. If it gives me week long PIP, I'll book a week off work so I can do glutes and quads too :lol:


Naa mate, it wont be bad, only difference I see with prop is it tends to sting a bit going in. Dont even feel it a day later, and I used 40ml of the dreaded Wildcat testoprop200.

So maybe im just not a feggit like you fellas :lol:

No all joking aside I honestly think its trial and error, try different labs, see what works for you.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Naa mate, it wont be bad, only difference I see with prop is it tends to sting a bit going in. Dont even feel it a day later, and I used 40ml of the dreaded Wildcat testoprop200.
> 
> So maybe im just not a feggit like you fellas :lol:
> 
> No all joking aside I honestly think its trial and error, try different labs, see what works for you.


I ordered another 2 vials of their T400, call me crazy, maybe tomorrow I'll stick with an orange and draw 1.5ml from the new vials I have? They have different batch dates on them, also, they were made in different places...


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I ordered another 2 vials of their T400, call me crazy, maybe tomorrow I'll stick with an orange and draw 1.5ml from the new vials I have? They have different batch dates on them, also, they were made in different places...


Probably just new labels to make it sound more appealing, itll still be made in the same place I bet.

Lets hope you get on better with this other batch then.. although it could be exactly the same batch, just with different labels. You can never tell in this game what youre getting.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

How comes you didn't try a different lab mate considering all the pip problems you've been having?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Probably just new labels to make it sound more appealing, itll still be made in the same place I bet.
> 
> Lets hope you get on better with this other batch then.. although it could be exactly the same batch, just with different labels. You can never tell in this game what youre getting.


Suppose you're right. I'll report back with how I get on 



bigtommay said:


> How comes you didn't try a different lab mate considering all the pip problems you've been having?


Sourcing mate, I'll PM you my situation, don't wanna broadcast it on here..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs!

Squats - 60kg x 8, 80kg x 5,5,5. It's been a while since I did proper squats and this wasn't easy. I'll up it to 82.5kg next week

Leg extensions - 110kg x 12,12,12 - PB

SLDL - 92.5kg x 10,10,10 - PB

Actually forgot to do calves. I'm sure I can fit a few sets in tomorrow before/after cardio. Felt very tired and hot in the gym. Can't wait to finish with DNP Friday and eat properly.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I am such a bellend!!!!

Just had my 8th injection, went in well, blah blah.

Put the vial back in my 'roid drawer' and realised I've just pinned 1.5ml Test Prop into my left quad, instead of T400!!!

What should I do now? Just pin the T400 later on but in my glutes or something?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I am such a bellend!!!!
> 
> Just had my 8th injection, went in well, blah blah.
> 
> ...


Yep! Just carry on as normal mate, or buy more prop and run both.. :devil2:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Yep! Just carry on as normal mate, or buy more prop and run both.. :devil2:


No :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Actually just pinned my 8th T400 at 1.5ml, used a blue for my left glute and it hurt! The Test Prop in my quad hasn't been giving me trouble at all. The T400 is normally painless for a few hours, no doubt I'll wake up and walk like Bambi..

I'm off DNP as of Saturday so next week I'll go back to a 4 day split, might even add a fifth day for arms when I up my calories next month. If I had more HCG, I'd probably extend my cycle to 15/16 weeks.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Actually just pinned my 8th T400 at 1.5ml, used a blue for my left glute and it hurt! The Test Prop in my quad hasn't been giving me trouble at all. The T400 is normally painless for a few hours, no doubt I'll wake up and walk like Bambi..
> 
> I'm off DNP as of Saturday so next week I'll go back to a 4 day split, might even add a fifth day for arms when I up my calories next month. If I had more HCG, I'd probably extend my cycle to 15/16 weeks.


Left glute is a pain to reach mate you probably had your wiggle on! I just always do right now. Don't be put off, glutes are the way!

If your thinking about it pal I would extend your cycle, running out of hcg isn't the end of the world. I'm not even taking any, given you have been your recovery should be fine even if you do a few weeks without.

Ps lol at your oils mixup just couldn't wait could you!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Left glute is a pain to reach mate you probably had your wiggle on! I just always do right now. Don't be put off, glutes are the way!
> 
> If your thinking about it pal I would extend your cycle, running out of hcg isn't the end of the world. I'm not even taking any, given you have been your recovery should be fine even if you do a few weeks without.
> 
> Ps lol at your oils mixup just couldn't wait could you!


Oh ai it was a pain, skinny cvnt now though ain't I, 78kg right now..

Just to be reassured, I'd rather have some in my possession. How are your balls? Mine seem a little smaller than usual, but nothing to be concerned about.

What happened was, I put the prop into a cup of hot water, to make the oil smoother to inject, and the label came off. I just took the label off and scrunched it up, drew and injected. Then I was like 'Where the fvck's my Prop?!?!', after a few seconds I kept saying 'oh no' to myself. I unravelled the scrunched up label and saw Testosterone Propionate, nooooooooo!!

I've spent tonight looking at what I'd fancy for my next cycle. Thinking 60mg Tbol for 6 weeks, probably with T400 again, or maybe some 325mg/ml that Ewen's heard is being made by BSI, I'll probably look into running that at 2ml per week so 650mg for 12/15 weeks. Oh and it'll be a cycle for bulking this time 

You know you can get T400 with Prop in it? What is the point? If you're injecting weekly, by the time your next injection comes around, the Prop will be out of your system. Doesn't make sense to me..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Spent yesterday evening with zero PIP from T400 or the 1.5ml Test Prop.

I kinda have DOMS from legs on Wednesday anyway, but this morning my left quad is aching from the Prop. My left glute however, remains PIP free, very unusual for the T400 I've been using, the last 7 injections have given me really bad PIP whereas week 8's injection is fine 

Push session in the gym later :thumb:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Today ended up being just chest, gonna do shoulders and triceps tomorrow and go back to a 4 day split.

DB chest press - 15kg x 10, 30kg x 8,6,4

Pec dec - weigh 10 x 11,9,10 really concentrated on the negative with these

Incline db - 20kg x 7,10,8 first time I've done these in maybe 3 years, felt good.

Dips - BW x 12,10,9 - PB on all reps on all sets!


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

You update your avi, but don't put up any progress pics?

Pics muthafuka! (no)****


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> You update your avi, but don't put up any progress pics?
> 
> Pics muthafuka! (no)****


There all in here mate http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=207697 cos the wnker hasn't gained any muscle mass!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> You update your avi, but don't put up any progress pics?
> 
> Pics muthafuka! (no)****





IronPhil said:


> There all in here mate http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=207697 cos the wnker hasn't gained any muscle mass!


Phil is spot on there :lol:

If I'd made some muscle progress I'd probably have added some photos of that but just for you, Rob.

Day 1,10,20, and 30 of DNP. I'm off the stuff now, but this is what I currently look like



Skinny cvnt, I know. At least now I can bulk from here and not be afraid of getting even fatter!

I'm thinking about extending my cycle so that I've got enough time on gear to eat a lot and actually gain some muscle.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Shoulders!

Overhead press (smith machine) - bar+20kg x 10, bar+20kg x 10, bar+54.2kg x 8,8,8 - PB

Face pulls (smith machine) - bar+30kg x 12,12,12 increase next week

Lateral raises 10kg x 9,8,7

Gonna lower the weight on lat raises, I've never been good at them, form wasn't very good at 10kg.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders!
> 
> Overhead press (smith machine) - bar+20kg x 10, bar+20kg x 10, bar+54.2kg x 8,8,8 - PB
> 
> ...


If you stand with your back to a wall it means you can't really cheat with lat raises. I always do that on at least the last set to make sure I dot compromise form.

Why no front raises/ traps work/rear delts?

How are you doing face pulls on a smith machine?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> If you stand with your back to a wall it means you can't really cheat with lat raises. I always do that on at least the last set to make sure I dot compromise form.
> 
> Why no front raises/ traps work/rear delts?
> 
> How are you doing face pulls on a smith machine?


I'll try doing against the wall next time, if there's no one else in the gym :lol:

If I'm honest, it was stupid of me to do shoulders today, they were aching from chest last night.

Facepulls were only done on smith machine because I was unloading the bar from seated OHP, lazyness really :|

I've always thought that traps and rear delts get hit on back day when deadlifting and doing different rows, never really thought of isolating rear delts..

What's your shoulder routine like? I'll try it out next time


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

How do you actually perform facepulls using a smith or a bar? I thought the pulley was required.

Lol everyone i ever see doing lat raises is swinging their back into it mate. Seems to be the done thibg to show off the weight.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> How do you actually perform facepulls using a smith or a bar? I thought the pulley was required.
> 
> Lol everyone i ever see doing lat raises is swinging their back into it mate. Seems to be the done thibg to show off the weight.


Grab the bar, pull it up towards your chin :lol:

I usually only use 7kg on lat raises but my form is very strict, slow and controlled reps.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Grab the bar, pull it up towards your chin :lol:
> 
> I usually only use 7kg on lat raises but my form is very strict, slow and controlled reps.


That's an upright row mate, not a face pull.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> That's an upright row mate, not a face pull.


Ohhh christ, just looked on YouTube, looks like it'll hit your traps and rear delts, what do you think?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Ohhh christ, just looked on YouTube, looks like it'll hit your traps and rear delts, what do you think?


Traps mate. Face pulls are for rear delts, either do them or google rear felt flyes.

I find rear delt flyes are a great exercise.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Yup rear delts with face pulls :laugh: great exercise. I only started doing them recently


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Try face pulls with a band. Epic exercise. You get all the tension at the final bit of the crucial bit of the movement.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Traps mate. Face pulls are for rear delts, either do them or google rear felt flyes.
> 
> I find rear delt flyes are a great exercise.





bigtommay said:


> Yup rear delts with face pulls :laugh: great exercise. I only started doing them recently


Next week I'll add them in, 3 sets of 10-12 reps?



simonthepieman said:


> Try face pulls with a band. Epic exercise. You get all the tension at the final bit of the crucial bit of the movement.


Not sure if they have those bands in my gym, can you think of anything else? I have one in work I can 'borrow' it's just remembering to take it with me.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just wrote up my diet for the next 3 weeks while I'm on Intermittent Fasting at 1800 calories a day. Moderate fats on rest days, moderate carbs on training days. Let me know your thoughts.

1 BBW Pecan Protein Bar

100g Strawberry Impact Whey

25g Maltodextrin

60g Oats

50g TPW Lemon Shortcake Whey

3 Egg Whites

200g Light Greek Yoghurt

100g Broccoli

200g Chicken

115g Tuna

10g EVOO

1830 - P222 C123 F52

3 Whole Eggs

3 Bacon Rashers

115g Tuna

20g EVOO

20g Balsamic Vinegar

60g Mature Cheddar

200g Chicken

100g Broccoli

200g Pork Steak

1813 - P187 C12 F108


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Here's my diet to bulk on as of 02-Mar-13



Btw, one serving of whey is 25g, one serving of maltodextrin is 50g, and one serving of milk is 100ml

Let me know what you think?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

looks decent, eating tinned tuna each day is a great way to head towards mercury poisoning. Not a high risk, but better things to put in your system. I prefer mackeral, but its more calories. A chicken or turkey breast instead would be a good idea


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> looks decent, eating tinned tuna each day is a great way to head towards mercury poisoning. Not a high risk, but better things to put in your system. I prefer mackeral, but its more calories. A chicken or turkey breast instead would be a good idea


I have tinned mackerel but it doesn't have any nutritional info on it, only that it weighs 110g when drained, comes in a chilli and tomato sauce.

I eat tuna daily, you've worried me now..


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I have tinned mackerel but it doesn't have any nutritional info on it, only that it weighs 110g when drained, comes in a chilli and tomato sauce.
> 
> I eat tuna daily, you've worried me now..


farmed Tuna has very high Mercury content. Don't worry as you would have symptoms, but I would maybe rotate in your diet more.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> farmed Tuna has very high Mercury content. Don't worry as you would have symptoms, but I would maybe rotate in your diet more.


If I do a 4 day split, I'll have tuna on my gym days. I'll replace it with 3 scrambled eggs on rest days


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Back and biceps!

BW Pull ups - 10,7,7

Bent over row - 62.5kg x 9,7,7

Close grip seated row - 57.5kg x 12. 65kg x 11,9 - Stick to 65kg for 3 sets next week.

Lat pull down - 61.5kg x 9,7. 54kg x 11

Hammer curls - 15kg x 10,8,8

Incline seated conc. curls - 7kg x 15,9,11 Increase to 10kg next week

Had a really good session, lots of veins and generally felt good. Need to learn to breathe when I'm doing pull ups though. I feel more and more rough after each set I do. Can't wait for next week's session, might re-introduce deadlifts but start off with 170kg and work my way back up over the next few weeks.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Shoulders!

DB Press - 28kg x 6 26kg x 7,9

Upright row - 40kg x 12,9,9

Face pulls - 40kg x 15 50kg x 15 60kg x 13

Lat raises - 7kg x 15,15,12

Great shoulders session, disappointed with the DB press, used to be able to throw 32s up at one point, never mind.

Did face pulls for the first time too, after receiving some advice on here. Took me a few sets to find a good working weight, I'll start at 60kg next week


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders!
> 
> DB Press - 28kg x 6 26kg x 7,9
> 
> ...


Still a strong shoulder press that for your weight/ size, I wanna see 7 reps of 28kg next session, with another set on the 28's after.

Also if you video it and shout "lightweight baby" you will be repped :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Rest day today.

Lower carbs and higher fats to make up my 1800 cals, protein stays at a constant ~225g per day.

Thought I'd try Avocado in an effort to get some healthy fats today, worst fruit ever. Couldn't really taste anything, I only at half of one, so now I have two and a half Avocados in the fridge and I don't know how long they're going to stay in there for.

I've had some whey come through in the last few days



BBW's Casein Probiotic tastes so good!! It's a really thick powder though. 50g mixed with 400ml of milk froths up hell of a lot. Still tastes awesome and has little cookie bits in it which are quite nice. Tonight I'm going to try it with 200ml milk, 200ml water, and see how I get on.

I wasn't sure what to expect with Butterscotch Ripple, I can't remember having anything that's butterscotch to know what it tastes like. This powder is very fine, like the rest of TPW's range and mixes 50g well with 300ml water. It tastes similar to My Protein's True Whey in Chocolate Caramel, only not as rich. If butterscotch is supposed to taste a bit like caramel, then True Whey tastes better. Still happy with 1kg of the stuff, doubt I'd re-order this flavour though.

The next TPW whey I have on it's way to me is Choc Mint Brownie 1kg, Cherry Bakewell 500g, Apple Cinnamon Swirl 250g. I'm not sure if anyone who reads this will care, but I'll give my thoughts on those 3 soon enough


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Still a strong shoulder press that for your weight/ size, I wanna see 7 reps of 28kg next session, with another set on the 28's after.
> 
> Also if you video it and shout "lightweight baby" you will be repped :lol:


I usually mix it up every week. One week I'll do dumbell press, the next week I'll do it with a smith machine. I can put 54kg on the smith machine and rep that sh!t, yet 56kg between two hands is something I struggle with?

I'll stick to db next week just for you


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Rest day today.
> 
> Lower carbs and higher fats to make up my 1800 cals, protein stays at a constant ~225g per day.
> 
> ...


I love avocados. Here is a way to get some fun out the ones in the fridge.

Get the flesh out of the avos and chop it up. Chop up a large red chilli. Dice 3 tomatoes. Chop some corriander. Squeeze the juice of a line in. Mush it all together. You have some amazing guacamole.

Great in burgers or as a dip. goes nice with chilli as well


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I usually mix it up every week. One week I'll do dumbell press, the next week I'll do it with a smith machine. I can put 54kg on the smith machine and rep that sh!t, yet 56kg between two hands is something I struggle with?
> 
> I'll stick to db next week just for you


Same mate tbh, but I think it's just a matter of preference, I'm upto 70kg on smith machine, but only 32 DB. It's a strange one

As well I can bent over barbell row 110kg but struggle with the 36kg DBs as I just can't crack the form on those. Always hurt lower back so I just stick to barbell now.

Swings and roundabouts tbh mate.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> I love avocados. Here is a way to get some fun out the ones in the fridge.
> 
> Get the flesh out of the avos and chop it up. Chop up a large red chilli. Dice 3 tomatoes. Chop some corriander. Squeeze the juice of a line in. Mush it all together. You have some amazing guacamole.
> 
> Great in burgers or as a dip. goes nice with chilli as well


I plan on going food shopping Friday afternoon, always wanted to make something like salsa. Hope I like guacamole..



onthebuild said:


> Same mate tbh, but I think it's just a matter of preference, I'm upto 70kg on smith machine, but only 32 DB. It's a strange one
> 
> As well I can bent over barbell row 110kg but struggle with the 36kg DBs as I just can't crack the form on those. Always hurt lower back so I just stick to barbell now.
> 
> Swings and roundabouts tbh mate.


32kg is good, I could do that when I was around 92kg, only for around 6 reps, doubt I could do that for 3 now..

I just have to make the most out of the rest of this cycle. I've decided to extend it to 14 weeks instead of 12, I'll be using test prop to bridge to PCT for 2 weeks, also I'll be using injectable dbol at 1ml ED for 27 days starting on the 10th March.

I've spent the first half of this cycle on DNP and low calories to ditch some fat, now I'm hoping to make some lean gains for the next half.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I plan on going food shopping Friday afternoon, always wanted to make something like salsa. Hope I like guacamole..
> 
> 32kg is good, I could do that when I was around 92kg, only for around 6 reps, doubt I could do that for 3 now..
> 
> ...


Time to make some gains then mate!!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs!

Squats - bar x 10, 60kg x 10, 85kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 110kg x 12,12,11

SLDL - 95kg x 10,10,10

Calf raises 170kg x 20,20,19

I had a sample sachet of grenade so I took both servings before I went to the gym, felt good, might actually look into getting some preworkout stuff just for leg and back day.

Anyway, had a really good session, added 5kg to my squat from last week and struggled with it, can't believe I used to be able to do 125kg for the same reps and sets! Hopefully when I ramp up the calories I'll be able to start adding more weight to the bar, might try another 5kg on next week, we'll see.

@simonthepieman I managed to go shopping for that stuff earlier, could only get hold of green chillis though. How many avocados should I use to make this stuff? You gave the quantities of tomatoes, chillis etc but not the avocado..


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Legs!
> 
> Squats - bar x 10, 60kg x 10, 85kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Green chillis are fine too, About two avocados. It all depends on size really. get it all in there and have a play with it. Its like making a bolognaise. There are no rules. If you want more of a certain flavor, just chuck it in there


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

How come your squat has dipped so much tom?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> How come your squat has dipped so much tom?


I was 93kg when I could squat that much, eating like a king. Just finished 4 weeks of DNP and now I'm on 1800 cals ED for 3 weeks.

It wasn't just my squat that went down. Before DNP, I could deadlift 175kg for 3 reps and get the fourth rep up to my knees, after 2 weeks of DNP I couldn't even get it off the floor for 1 rep..


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Oh right, so was the DNP worth it in your opinion? Not that I'm thinking about it, just wondering


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> Oh right, so was the DNP worth it in your opinion? Not that I'm thinking about it, just wondering


Of course! As long as your dose is sensible, you should be fine and experience minimal sides. For me it was worth it, this is easily the slimmest I've ever been.

It's sort of given me a fresh start in a way. It would've taken a good few months to get to where I am now without it.Which would mean months of cutting, which would mean months of not gaining any muscle.

From here I can actually have a go at eating right, training hard, and seeing some results. I've lost strength and gained no LBM for the last 9 weeks on test, but still worth it to me.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just had my 9th injection and what a bastrd it was! Used my right quad this time, pushed the needle in about 2mm and it actually hurt! Removed the needle and some blood came out! I usually never bleed or get pain from a needle going in!!!!

I moved the needle down an inch and the injection was nice and smooth, hopefully no aches in the morning :thumb:

I can appreciate that I've been on DNP and around 2000 calories for the majority of this cycle, but I still can't help feeling disappointed with the gains. My training is consistent and regular, I always train as hard as I can, protein has always been between 220 and 250g ED, and I've been getting plenty of rest.

I did originally hope that I'd lose lots of body fat, which I have, and still gain some LBM, but I haven't. Just thinking about this cycle is really getting me down :sad:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Chin up chap. How did you expect muscle to grow. It had no energy to do so. A massive deficit. An agent that tricks your body into using more energy that it needs.

Muscle building is an expensive process with regard to energy and body resource and was in direct conflict with the fat loss.

You achieved massive amounts of fat loss on short space of time. Be happy with that.

That's why experienced people say pick one goal and focus on it. If you want great results in both. You'll quite often be disappointed.

Keep going mate


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

You live and learn mate, still got 5 weeks left which is plenty of time to make some great gains, smash the food and get your strength back.

Next cycle you'll be lean and can deadicate the whole 12 weeks to building muscle


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Sod that the next 2 years is solid muscle building for the soon to be big laf


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Chin up chap. How did you expect muscle to grow. It had no energy to do so. A massive deficit. An agent that tricks your body into using more energy that it needs.
> 
> Muscle building is an expensive process with regard to energy and body resource and was in direct conflict with the fat loss.
> 
> ...


Suppose you're right. I think last night I'd read a thread about BSI where someone called Jim was on loads of BSI's gear and made fvck all gains, basically making out that the lab is sh!t. I've never seen another journal where someone's used just their T400. Maybe it made me think that my gear's crap too, my head was a mess last night.



robdobbie said:


> You live and learn mate, still got 5 weeks left which is plenty of time to make some great gains, smash the food and get your strength back.
> 
> Next cycle you'll be lean and can deadicate the whole 12 weeks to building muscle


Ai I'm hoping you're right like. I don't want to build myself up to it and expect miracles though. I'd be p!ssed if I didn't make any gains during the last few weeks of my cycle where I'm eating lots, don't wanna gain fat for fvck all! :lol:



simonthepieman said:


> Sod that the next 2 years is solid muscle building for the soon to be big laf


100% I will not be taking steroids again this year. Maybe next January, but definitely not again this year. I'm thinking of running T400 again, maybe another lab though, with some tbol for the first 4 weeks. It's all well and good saying this now, but next winter another lab might come out that everyone raves about, we'll have to see.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

08/02/13



Tom90 said:


> DB chest press - 15kg x 10, 30kg x 8,6,4
> 
> Pec dec - weigh 10 x 11,9,10
> 
> ...


Chest!

DB press - 15kg x 12. 30kg x 9,9,5 last set a bellend started talking to me half way through, broke my concentration.

Incline db - 22kg x 9,8,7

Pec dec - weight 10 x 9,10,11

BW dips - 15,11,9 - PB

CGBP - 45kg x 7 40kg x 7,6

Skull crushers - 30kg x 8,7,6

Improved most of my reps/weights from last week so all in all, not a bad session. Gutted about db press but next week I'll wear earphones!

Dips have come along massively, I can remember when I'd struggle to do 6-8 reps not so long ago.

It was the first time I'd done CGBP and skull crushers in a long while, felt uneasy doing both, hopefully I'll be alright next week and manage some more reps


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

From today I'll be taking my adex dose at 0.25mg EOD, rather than 05mg EOD, purely to see if my libido picks up. I have nolva to hand in case I start getting itchy nips.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

@gdawgs



gdawgs said:


> Tom have u made good gains with the bsi test400 mate?i have been on there test 400 for 3 weeks now,1.5ml twiced a week in each glute had little bit of pip next morning but nothing to bad


Didn't want to clog up that fella's thread with my issues :lol:

I've not really made any gains as such, I've been on a weightloss substance since week 2 so my calories have been around 1800-2000 for the best part of the 9 weeks I've been on.

I'll be increasing my calories next month so we'll have to see how I get on.

If you start a journal on here, send me a link and I'll subscribe to it. I don't think I've seen another journal where someone's used just BSI test400, it would be good to see how you get on with it.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> 11/02/13
> 
> Back and biceps!
> 
> ...


Back!

BW pull ups - 12,8,7

BOR - 62.5kg x 9,8,8

Lat pull downs - 54kg x 13,13,12

Low rows - 72.5kg x 10,11,10

Hammer curls - 17kg x 6 15kg x 7,6

Getting better at pull ups, actually concentrating on breathing, rather than just holding my breath the entire set! Happy with how BOR is coming on. I'll increase the weight on Lat pull downs next week. Felt like increasing the weight on hammer curls, what a fail that was! I'll stick to 15kg next session.

So I lowered my adex dose over the last few days from 0.5mg EOD to 0.25mg EOD, had morning wood today! First time I've had an hardon, that wasn't caused by porn, in weeks!!!! I'm not sure if this was because of my adex dose or just a random one..

I can remember when I first started my cycle I couldn't keep it down! Even making a bowl of oats gave me one :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders! 12/02/13
> 
> DB Press - 28kg x 6 26kg x 7,9
> 
> ...


Shoulders!

DB Press - 28kg x 10,8,7 @onthebuild

Upright row - 42.5kg x 12,11,9

Facepulls - 60kg x 15,15,15

Lat raises - 10kg x 13,11,10

Had a really good session, lots of energy, looks like my lifts are starting to go back up 

Really surprised myself with the db press, considering how poor it was last week. I'll increase the weight with upright rows next week to 45kg. Facepulls can also go up to 65kg. I'll keep lat raises the same, I did more reps than what I've wrote down but my form was poor and I'd use momentum to help squeeze a few more out, the reps I wrote down were before my form went.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders!
> 
> DB Press - 28kg x 10,8,7 @onthebuild
> 
> ...


Good man, seems all you need is a boot up the **** :whistling:

Some good progress that, you'll be throwing the 30's about in a few weeks!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Good man, seems all you need is a boot up the **** :whistling:
> 
> Some good progress that, you'll be throwing the 30's about in a few weeks!


I'll stick to 28 next week, then who knows


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs! 14/02/13
> 
> Squats - bar x 10, 60kg x 10, 85kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs!

Squats - bar x 12, 60kg x 8, 90kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 110kg x 12,12,12

SLDL - 97.5kg x 10,10,10

Calf raises - 175kg x 20,20,20

Really good session today, squats felt a bit easier today than they did last week, and that's with a 5kg increase! I'm gonna increase it by 5kg again next week.

Next week I'll increase leg extensions by 5kg, SLDL by 2.5kg and calf raises by 5kg.

Had my 10th injection after the gym, used my right glute for a change, then jumped in the bath. Hopefully I'll have no PIP in the morning..

Also got some goodies in the post! Roll on 10th March, can't wait to start using it


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> 15/02/13
> 
> Chest!
> 
> ...


Chest!

DB press - 15kg x 12, 30kg x 8,7,7

Incline DB - 22kg x 10,8,9

BW dips - 16,12,14

Skull crushers - 30kg x 14,11,11

I went to the gym last night, after finishing work at 10PM. Had no motivation to go, and wanted to leave as soon as I got there! It's probably just a placebo thing but training in the evening is a lot harder than it is at 2PM!

There's a motivational poster in my gym, something like 'the only bad workout, is the one that didn't happen'.

Next week I'll start adding weight to my dips since BW dips are getting a lot easier. Also I'll add 2.5kg to skull crushers. I'm not progressing with flat or incline DB presses, hopefully this'll change when I start eating more, and start injectable dbol..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Back! 18/02/13
> 
> BW pull ups - 12,8,7
> 
> ...


Back!

BW pull ups - 12,8,8

BOR - 65kg x 7,8,7

Lat pull downs 61.5kg x 12,12,9

Low rows - 72.5kg x 12,12,12

Hammer curls - 15kg x 8,8,9

Incline concentration curls - 10kg x 10,10

Trained this morning in a fasted state, didn't feel any different to training fed. Only thing I noticed was that my arms were less vascular, the gym was a bit cold mind you.

Happy with how the session went, I'll increase seated rows and lat pull downs by 2.5kg next week


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Back!
> 
> BW pull ups - 12,8,8
> 
> ...


We're in sync on body parts today mate! :thumbup:

Looks like your doing well bro. What's a low row? Don't think I've ever done one.

I wouldn't work out fasted mate, that's surely gonna lead to some muscle breakdown you want nutrients in you beforehand!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> We're in sync on body parts today mate! :thumbup:
> 
> Looks like your doing well bro. What's a low row? Don't think I've ever done one.
> 
> I wouldn't work out fasted mate, that's surely gonna lead to some muscle breakdown you want nutrients in you beforehand!!


Lightweight buddy!

Low row/seated row. You basically plonk your bum on the floor and pull something attached to a cable, I only count the reps when my hands touch the bottom of my ribcage.



I took 10g BCAA before I went and had 10g in my squash to drink throughout the session. INCREASING PROTEIN SYNTHESIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only did it fasted today because my eating window is 12pm-8pm and I'm working from 12:30-21:30 today. Hate being d!cked around with shifts in work!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders! 19/02/13
> 
> DB Press - 28kg x 10,8,7
> 
> ...


Shoulders!

DB Press - 28kg x 8,8,7

Upright row - 45kg x 12,11,10

Facepulls - 65kg x 15,13,14

Lat raises - 10kg x 12,12,10

Despite not getting as many reps on db press, as last week, it was actually an amazing session. Felt good all the way through it! Left the gym pumped as fvck and very vascular arms.

Next week I'll increase upright row by 2.5kg, and facepulls by 5kg.

Also I have some new photos to upload later on, to this thread and my DNP log.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Photos from yesterday..


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Looking cut up bud!

Excellent work!

Your legs in particular look mean, impressive stuff. Have you added weight at all recently?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Looking cut up bud!
> 
> Excellent work!
> 
> Your legs in particular look mean, impressive stuff. Have you added weight at all recently?


Thanks man, means a lot :thumbup1:

I can only really notice a difference in my back and quads, everywhere else is still fat :sad:

Umm I'm not sure how much I weigh right now, I'll start weighing myself every Friday morning.

The thing is with being on gear, I'm not sure how to judge any weightgain. As a natty, anything over 1lb a month you could put down to fat or water/glycogen. I'm not sure how much muscle weight you can add to yourself when you're on gear. I'm eating 2500 calories right now, next Tuesday it goes up to 3000, then 3500 after that. 3500 are my lean bulking calories, I'll have to monitor weight gain, hopefully it'll be muscle!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Thanks man, means a lot :thumbup1:
> 
> I can only really notice a difference in my back and quads, everywhere else is still fat :sad:
> 
> ...


Yes mate, looking lean, but if you don't mind me saying you've lost most of the mass from your legs, so time to grow now!


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Thanks man, means a lot :thumbup1:
> 
> I can only really notice a difference in my back and quads, everywhere else is still fat :sad:
> 
> ...


Its hard to say how much you'll gain mate, trial and error.

I doubt you've gained much so far tho, I've been on 4000cals and just about adding some good lean weight!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

We're all anonymous friends here, you can be as honest as you like!

I'll put it out there - I've lost quite a bit of weight and fvck all of it was fat. I thought AAS helped to preserve muscle while cutting, also thought DNP was muscle sparing, maybe I've been doing it wrong. Protein has been high, calories haven't been too low, god knows what's happened to me. My lifts haven't gone down too much though.

I'm not even sure where to go from this cycle.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Just eat like a fuxking animal, straight to 3500kcals+ and worry about cutting later, you said this will be your only cycle this year so make the most of it, don't worry about slowing upping the kcals


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Just eat like a fuxking animal, straight to 3500kcals+ and worry about cutting later, you said this will be your only cycle this year so make the most of it, don't worry about slowing upping the kcals


My thoughts exactly. I've been eating everything in sight mate and I've maybe gone up at most 1% bf


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm not sure if you pair will understand my mentality, but I'm afraid of going back to as fat as I was..

I'm not going away this summer so abs aren't a big deal, but still, I just wanna bulk but stay lean.

Am I making sense??


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'm not sure if you pair will understand my mentality, but I'm afraid of going back to as fat as I was..
> 
> I'm not going away this summer so abs aren't a big deal, but still, I just wanna bulk but stay lean.
> 
> Am I making sense??


I know what you mean mate. My training partner is a bit of a knob, he'd been training for 2 years before he started with me and he'd never deadlifted and could barely squat 80kg, although his bench press 1rm was 95kgs, a true chest, arms and abs boy. (3 years training and he still only weighs 70kg lol)

At the beginning of September I told him he needs to lose the abs and do a bulk, he didn't listen to me about macros and just ate everything he could, put on about 3kg in a month, lost his abs completely, got scared, started to eat a lot less to lose the weight and now he refuses to try and bulk so has put on next to no size in 6 months :lol:

Gaining and losing weight is part of bodybuilding mate, you just need to crack on with it and do it sensibly (except on cycle when you should be eating like crazy while you can!!)


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

oh, and I started that journal btw, upper/lower starts next week  http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/214438-rd-journal-self.html


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

aaaaaaaaand you subbed on it 2 minutes before I posted that comment^ :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> aaaaaaaaand you subbed on it 2 minutes before I posted that comment^ :lol:


Good aren't I 

I do see what you're saying mind, I need to have a good think..


----------



## AshleyW (Feb 28, 2013)

hi,

im 27 and weighed in at 10st 1llb in november, after spending 5 years in the Army i never gained any weight neither did i whilst training all of last year i have a bmi of approx 9% dont really drink much, so a friend suggested i try steriods. initially i was very skeptical, growing up with the usual comments about steriods i.e. small dick spotty aggressive all of that.

so anyway i grabbed a 10ml of deca and a 10ml of sus 250 and signed up to my local needle exchange.........free needles

started pinning 1ml of each twice a week i didnt really see any resutls up until week 4 which apparentley is about right for the course i was on.

at week 7 i couldnt get more deca so i got some test prop, and ran same dosage.

from week 4 - 10 i went from 10st 1 up to 12st 9 changed my whole appearence, i look well cut and now have shoulders and arms like a real man lol.

the only noticable side effects i had was a moon face slight mood change (not overly aggressive) and sore nipples (gyno) at week 9

i came off on week 10 as i was advised not to run 12 for first course.

i then had only 4 weeks of and no PCT this was due to little or no side effects and my gyno completely dissapearing.

i am now on tren ace EOD and sus 250 have been pinning for 3 weeks but havnt really noticed much, which is odd as as far as im aware tren ace is quick acting and very strong ??????

my diet and rest are approx the same im pushing good weight for my size but dont feel any extra pump at all?

my question is am i being to hasty do i need to wait a little longer?

sorry if this is kinda un-related its my first post

thanks guys


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Ummmmmmmmmmm


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Probably should start your own thread buddy lol


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Very unrelated..

I have no experience with Tren so I couldn't say..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs! 21/02/13
> 
> Squats - bar x 12, 60kg x 8, 90kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs!

Squats - bar x 12, 60kg x 8, 95kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 115kg x 12,12,12

SLDL - 100kg x 10,10,10

Calf raises - 180kg x 20,20,20

Happy with my session today, hit PBs on everything except squats.

Next week I'll increase squats up to 100kg, leg ext to 120kg, SLDL to 105kg and calf raises up to 190kg.

Also went out for a run this morning, first time since I'd been on DNP. Ran my usual route of around 4 miles, much easier to do now that I'm much lighter!

Just pinned my T400 for the 11th time, only another 3 left to go!


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Can you run 4 miles straight?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> Can you run 4 miles straight?


Of course, furthest I've run this year is around 6, there's nothing like a bit of cardio to kick start the day. I play squash often too. Gonna do a bleep test soon just to see what I can get.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Daz crayyyyyy lol


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> Daz crayyyyyy lol


Whysa?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Whysa?


Well maybe it's not, my cardio levels are pretty low so I can only do 1-2 without needing to walk for a while lol


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Chest! 23/02/13
> 
> DB press - 15kg x 12, 30kg x 8,7,7
> 
> ...


Chest!

DB press - 30kg x 10,7,8

Incline DB - 25kg x 11,7,5

Pec dec - weight 10 x 15, weight 11 x 11,11

Dips +10kg x 10,10,7

Skull crushers - 32.5kg x 15,11,9

Good session, still don't seem to be getting anywhere with DB press though!

Next week ill start pec dec with weight 11, increase dips to 12.5kg and skull crushers up to 35kg.

Anyway, I'm off to Nando's tomorrow night, 3500 calories starts tomorrow


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Anyway, I'm off to Nando's tomorrow night, 3500 calories starts tomorrow


Good boy!

Don't be afraid to pack away more than that bro, just eat eat and eat.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Good boy!
> 
> Don't be afraid to pack away more than that bro, just eat eat and eat.


I could do it so easily. Everyday for brekkie I have 400ml milk, 50g chocolate whey, 100g oats and 30g peanut butter. Microwave that lot and it creates something magical and it's 926 calories. I really struggle to stop myself making a second bowl.

The only reason I don't make another bowl is because I don't want to get all my protein from whey..

I really don't understand how some people post on here about not being able to eat enough!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

78.5kg this morning. Hopefully at 3500 calories ill only put on 1 or 2lbs a week, we'll have to see.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I won't make a habit of uploading these, but this is roughly my diet for the foreseeable future.














































My post workout shake is in the snacks bit, 50g whey with 50g maltodextrin. On rest days I'll be replacing the maltodextrin with 400ml milk, calories will be roughly the same.

PCF ratio is 41:30:29

So easy to eat all that in an 8 hour window, I only have dinner and a casein shake left with 3 hours and 20 minutes remaining.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Postman came today, got quite a few goodies. I love bargains!!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Back! 25/02/13
> 
> BW pull ups - 12,8,8
> 
> ...


Back!

BW Pull ups - 13,9,10

BOR - 65kg x 9,9,8

Lat pull downs - 64kg x 14,9,10

Seated row - 75kg x 12,12,12

Hammer curls - 15kg x 13,10,10

Incline concentration curls - 10kg x 10,10 dropset 7kg x 6

Good session today. I'll be looking to add dead lifts back into my routine next week, I'll probably put it in after pull ups and start at 170kg.

I'll keep the weights the same next weekend, depending on how nackering deadlifts are..

Just had some of the casein shake I've bought from BBW and my **** hasn't stopped, proper smelly ones too. I don't get this with their probiotic casein though!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders! 26/02/13
> 
> DB Press - 28kg x 8,8,7
> 
> ...


Shoulders!

DB Press - 30kg x 4, 28kg x 9,8

Upright row - 47.5kg x 10,8,8

Face pulls - 70kg x 15,15,14

Cable lat raise - 10kg x 15,15,14 dropset 5kg x 7

Felt strong today so had a crack at pressing the 30's, I had no spotter and really struggled to get the first rep up. I'll stick to 28's next week :lol:

Looks like I've plateaud with the upright rows, I'll keep the weight the same next week. Face pulls and cable lat raises up by 2.5kg next week.

Think I've seen @simonthepieman advocate the cable raises. I did them with the cables behind my back. The cables rub together throughout the lift which kinda makes the raising part a lot more difficult, the reps have to be done slower, got hell of a pump!!!!!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

If I was you, I would drop the upright rows. and just do more presses, 3 power sets and 5 sets in 10 rep range. Maybe do the power ones with a BB? just an idea


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> If I was you, I would drop the upright rows. and just do more presses, 3 power sets and 5 sets in 10 rep range. Maybe do the power ones with a BB? just an idea


My gym doesn't have any stands I could use to take the bar off, if I did standing OHP.. Thoughts on swapping the upright rows and doing OHP seated with a smith machine?


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> If I was you, I would drop the upright rows. and just do more presses, 3 power sets and 5 sets in 10 rep range. Maybe do the power ones with a BB? just an idea


Why drop the upright rows, he's already doing 3 sets of presses and if these are to failure I don't see a need for more.

If you take upright rows out there will be absolutely no direct trap work, which seems a waste dice they'll be prefatigued.

Each to their own but if adding anything it would be shrugs for me not more pressing.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Why drop the upright rows, he's already doing 3 sets of presses and if these are to failure I don't see a need for more.
> 
> If you take upright rows out there will be absolutely no direct trap work, which seems a waste dice they'll be prefatigued.
> 
> Each to their own but if adding anything it would be shrugs for me not more pressing.


I thought face pulls hit traps? I know they do rear delts too, I'm not sure which gets hits the hardest though.

This might sound stupid, but I don't shrug because I don't feel like my shoulders are round enough to look good with bigger traps. Does that make sense?

I always feel I should get more involved with your journal, just everytime I open it, it always seems to be people having a conversation, rather than being focused more on your training, I never know what to say lol. I do throw in the odd like now and again though


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Why drop the upright rows, he's already doing 3 sets of presses and if these are to failure I don't see a need for more.
> 
> If you take upright rows out there will be absolutely no direct trap work, which seems a waste dice they'll be prefatigued.
> 
> Each to their own but if adding anything it would be shrugs for me not more pressing.


From what I recall he does traps on his back day from what I understand is he is targeting his shoulders. If you look at things like GVT and what people like Wendler and Tate instruct, sometimes move volume with less exercises is the way to go. Especially if you are in the routine of 3-4 exercises for the same muscle. I dare you to try 10 x 10 for OHP with a barbell, you will have too lower the weight, but wow, you will feel it)

I agree with what Tom says about shrugs. one of the most least effective exercises and deadlifts take care of them. Upright rows are a terrible exercise for traps anyway. Upright rows work for beginners, but once you do real weights on them the mechanics of the arm and shoulder move too much stress on your wrist joints rather than the muscle.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I thought face pulls hit traps? I know they do rear delts too, I'm not sure which gets hits the hardest though.
> 
> This might sound stupid, but I don't shrug because I don't feel like my shoulders are round enough to look good with bigger traps. Does that make sense?
> 
> I always feel I should get more involved with your journal, just everytime I open it, it always seems to be people having a conversation, rather than being focused more on your training, I never know what to say lol. I do throw in the odd like now and again though


Lateral raises bring in traps a bit, as do face pulls, but they arent primarily concerned with working traps, so dropping upright rows in my opinion would be a mistake, as you would not be targeting them directly. I get what you say about not thinking shoulders are big enough, but since traps are almost used as a secondary muscle in most shoulder exercises, the stronger your traps, the stronger you'll be on your pressing, lat raises, facepulls etc. If that makes sense?

It doesnt matter how strong your chest is for example, if you have sh1t triceps, then your going to be held back by them. Which is why IMO every muscle should get equal work.

Pop in and get involved mate, theres alot of discussion goes on but I still update training a few times a week etc. I like to think outloud in my journo and hear ot her peoples opinions, at the end of the day no-one is correct as it is all person dependant, but I like to discuss ideas and try everything!



simonthepieman said:


> From what I recall he does traps on his back day from what I understand is he is targeting his shoulders. If you look at things like GVT and what people like Wendler and Tate instruct, sometimes move volume with less exercises is the way to go. Especially if you are in the routine of 3-4 exercises for the same muscle. *I dare you to try 10 x 10 for OHP with a barbell, you will have too lower the weight, but wow, you will feel it*)
> 
> The same could be said of any exercise, when increasing the sets/reps weight has to be compromised. However I disagree that this is good for maximum growth, and much prefer high intensity training, Dorian Yates style, maximum weight, minimal sets, high overload. Each to their own I guess.
> 
> I agree with what Tom says about shrugs. one of the most least effective exercises and deadlifts take care of them. Upright rows are a terrible exercise for traps anyway. Upright rows work for beginners, but once you do real weights on them the mechanics of the arm and shoulder move too much stress on your wrist joints rather than the muscle.


Again I disagree that upright rows are terrible, they are a great movement, when done slowly for minimal reps with heavy weight, however prefer to do them with an EZ bar to minimise wrist stress.

I will agree with you however that there are much more effective ways to target the upper traps and shoulders, that being Barbell shrugs or even Dumbell.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

imo, deadlift heavy and your traps will take care of themselves.

Could throw in some DB front raises? Unless you feel your anterior head gets hit enough on chest press, etc, but I'm guessing it doesn't as you said your shoulder isn't round enough for big traps.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm so confused :lol:


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'm so confused :lol:


it's all just advice, do what ever the *PHUCK* you wanna doooooo


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> From what I recall he does traps on his back day from what I understand is he is targeting his shoulders. If you look at things like GVT and what people like Wendler and Tate instruct, sometimes move volume with less exercises is the way to go. Especially if you are in the routine of 3-4 exercises for the same muscle. I dare you to try 10 x 10 for OHP with a barbell, you will have too lower the weight, but wow, you will feel it)
> 
> I agree with what Tom says about shrugs. one of the most least effective exercises and deadlifts take care of them. Upright rows are a terrible exercise for traps anyway. Upright rows work for beginners, but once you do real weights on them the mechanics of the arm and shoulder move too much stress on your wrist joints rather than the muscle.


Totaly wrong,use an ez bar and take the load off joints,lift high and squeeze at top then lower slowly,then tell me it does not hit traps,upright rows are good for whole shoulder girdle,great movement.

Read and learn http://www.musclemagfitness.com/bodybuilding/exercises/barbell-upright-row.html


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Totaly wrong,use an ez bar and take the load off joints,lift high and squeeze at top then lower slowly,then tell me it does not hit traps,upright rows are good for whole shoulder girdle,great movement.
> 
> Read and learn http://www.musclemagfitness.com/bodybuilding/exercises/barbell-upright-row.html


I've been doing it with a BB, with my hands about 8 inches apart..

I'll adapt it to what you've said and what's in that link. They recommend shoulder width apart. Cheers mate


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I've been doing it with a BB, with my hands about 8 inches apart..
> 
> I'll adapt it to what you've said and what's in that link. They recommend shoulder width apart. Cheers mate


No probs,make sure you hold the bar where it bends to get max contraction mate,less stress on joints=better training,train smart!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Here's my current routine.

Monday

Deadlifts - 5rm

Pull ups - 3xf

BOR - 3x8-10

Lat pull downs - 3x10-12

Seated row - 3x10-12

Tuesday (revised)

Seated DB press - 3x8-12

Seated smith press - 3x8-12

Upright row - 3x8-12

Face pulls - 3x10-15

Lat raises - 3x10-15

Wednesday - rest

Thursday

Squat - 3x5

Leg ext - 3x10-12

SLDL - 3x10

Calf raises - 3x20

Friday (revised)

DB press - 3x8-12

Cable flies - 3x8-12

Incline DB press - 3x8-12

Pec dec - 3x10-12

Weighted dips - 3x10

Saturday

CGBP - 3x8-12

Skull crushers - 3x8-12

Overhead tricep extension - 3x8-12

Hammer curls - 3x8-12

Preacher curls - 3x8-12

Incline seat concentration curls 3x10-15

Sunday - rest.

I've modified my usual routine to have an arms day for when I start injectable dbol next Sunday. Feel free to critique :thumbup1:


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Here's my current routine.
> 
> Monday
> 
> ...


Look good mate! Never done an 'arms day' myself as I feel I get more growth from doing tris on chest day and bis with back, but each to their own!

Give it a try and see what you think, it might work wonders for you!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Look good mate! Never done an 'arms day' myself as I feel I get more growth from doing tris on chest day and bis with back, but each to their own!
> 
> Give it a try and see what you think, it might work wonders for you!


I've never done it either, just thought it would be a good idea while I'm on dbol.

I think my arms and shoulders are really lagging, that's where I'll be pinning the dbol, tris on chest and arm day, biceps on back day and delts on the other days.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I've never done it either, just thought it would be a good idea while I'm on dbol.
> 
> I think my arms and shoulders are really lagging, that's where I'll be pinning the dbol, tris on chest and arm day, biceps on back day and delts on the other days.


How much in each site?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> How much in each site?


0.5ml in each muscle. So 1ml ED, got enough to run it for the last 27 days of my cycle.

Can't wait to start it, I've seen that it gets good reviews from reputable people on here


----------



## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

biglbs said:


> Totaly wrong,use an ez bar and take the load off joints,lift high and squeeze at top then lower slowly,then tell me it does not hit traps,upright rows are good for whole shoulder girdle,great movement.
> 
> Read and learn http://www.musclemagfitness.com/bodybuilding/exercises/barbell-upright-row.html


Couldn't agree more. Really feel it when I have used the EZ bar for my upright rows.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> 0.5ml in each muscle. So 1ml ED, got enough to run it for the last 27 days of my cycle.
> 
> Can't wait to start it, I've seen that it gets good reviews from reputable people on here


Just wondered cos if you're going for site growth more oil = more stretching of the muscle fascia I'm lead to believe


----------



## Super_G (Feb 20, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Just wondered cos if you're going for site growth more oil = more stretching of the muscle fascia I'm lead to believe


I'd research this one, reason for my operation in both legs is due to the muscles growing too quickly for the mayofascial sacks, f*cking pain is unbelievable. OP, if your pinning diff sites to aim for faster muscle growth I'd looking into the point @onthebuild has just made


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Just wondered cos if you're going for site growth more oil = more stretching of the muscle fascia I'm lead to believe





Super_G said:


> I'd research this one, reason for my operation in both legs is due to the muscles growing too quickly for the mayofascial sacks, f*cking pain is unbelievable. OP, if your pinning diff sites to aim for faster muscle growth I'd looking into the point @onthebuild has just made


It's water based, if that makes any difference. According to Ausbuilt, it takes weeks/months to notice local growth, but I'm only doing it for just under 4 weeks. I doubt I will get any noticeable site growth, but if I do, I'd like it to be in my shoulders and arms. Also I've heard pinning delts it painless, so that's a bonus.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Another package just arrived, anyone would swear I have money :lol:










Looking at ordering some Glutamine, HMB, Arganine and Taurine, thoughts??


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Another package just arrived, anyone would swear I have money :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've used all of those mate and the glutamine gave me the best results.

Arginine I assume you mean... Gave me great pumps. It's makes your body make nitric oxide. I looked proper vascular on the stuff! Wouldn't spend my money on it again tho. Especially if you have a preworkout drink.

Taurine was good I took it when on dbol and tbol to stop painful pumps. It made me hold a fair bit of water though even off gear, bear that in mind. It's good in that respect but can make you look bloaty.

I used to take hmb before bed to stop muscle breakdown. I think when on gear it's a bit pointless and an expensive habit.

Glutamine really sped up my recovery times and I almost always take it. It definitely helps me build muscle dude. If i had to pick I would choose it over all the others!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> I've used all of those mate and the glutamine gave me the best results.
> 
> Arginine I assume you mean... Gave me great pumps. It's makes your body make nitric oxide. I looked proper vascular on the stuff! Wouldn't spend my money on it again tho. Especially if you have a preworkout drink.
> 
> ...


Roger that. HMB is something I'll look into when I get around to cutting.

I'll order just glutamine for now


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> It's water based, if that makes any difference. According to Ausbuilt, it takes weeks/months to notice local growth, but I'm only doing it for just under 4 weeks. I doubt I will get any noticeable site growth, but if I do, I'd like it to be in my shoulders and arms. Also I've heard pinning delts it painless, so that's a bonus.


Delts are pretty painless to jab but I've got noticeable pip in them at the minute, but it was first big jab in them so they aren't used to taking a lot!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Delts are pretty painless to jab but I've got noticeable pip in them at the minute, but it was first big jab in them so they aren't used to taking a lot!


When I first tried the injectable dbol it stung going in but didn't get any PIP in triceps. It ruined my biceps though :lol:

Hoping it'll be fine in delts..

I'll be using prop for 2 of the 3 weeks before PCT, 100mg EOD, I'll probably use delts for 2 of those injections and then probably glutes and quads.

Btw, what do you consider to be a lot??

It's a virgin site for me so 1ml of prop could hurt haha!!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Super_G said:


> I'd research this one, reason for my operation in both legs is due to the muscles growing too quickly for the mayofascial sacks, f*cking pain is unbelievable. OP, if your pinning diff sites to aim for faster muscle growth I'd looking into the point @onthebuild has just made


I think the idea is your muscle can only grow as big as the sack (or fascia) its in. (except in your case you freak :lol: )

So the idea behind site growth is the more oil you put in the more stretching of the sack/fascia which occurs. This means the muscle has more room to grow. Also as the muscle has oil in it, when you workout and it becomes pumped with blood, it stretches even more, leaving even more room for growth.

So maybe you should go for some site growth, to stretch the sacks :lol:

All my solutions are starting to become.. 'take more gear' pmsl


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> When I first tried the injectable dbol it stung going in but didn't get any PIP in triceps. It ruined my biceps though :lol:
> 
> Hoping it'll be fine in delts..
> 
> ...


Well I got slight pip, like bruising from 1ml in each. The 2.5ml in each I did on monday however is a different story


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> I think the idea is your muscle can only grow as big as the sack (or fascia) its in. (except in your case you freak :lol: )
> 
> So the idea behind site growth is the more oil you put in the more stretching of the sack/fascia which occurs. This means the muscle has more room to grow. Also as the muscle has oil in it, when you workout and it becomes pumped with blood, it stretches even more, leaving even more room for growth.
> 
> ...





onthebuild said:


> Well I got slight pip, like bruising from 1ml in each. The 2.5ml in each I did on monday however is a different story


Maybe I'll start pinning sunflower oil with the test, 3ml sound good? :lol:

I start injectable dbol on the 10th and then prop on the 24th, hopefully by then my delts will be used to getting injected


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Maybe I'll start pinning sunflower oil with the test, 3ml sound good? :lol:
> 
> I start injectable dbol on the 10th and then prop on the 24th, hopefully by then my delts will be used to getting injected


Yeah mate you'll get used to it, just start small like half a ml, I was stupid to go too much too quick!

Hahah I wouldn't pin sunflower oil unless you're gonna sterilise it first :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs! 28/02/12
> 
> Squats - bar x 12, 60kg x 8, 95kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs!

Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 120kg x 12,12,12

SLDL - 105kg x 10,10,10

Calf raises 190kg x 20,20,20

My form was shocking with these squats, no where near ATG. Also my lower back ached with every rep! Next week I'll leave my ego at home and use 80kg but make sure I go ATG. Also I'll only add 2.5kg each week to build back up. I think I've just rushed into it to try and get my squats back up to 125kg..

I'm gonna have to start doing single leg extensions because the machine only has 120kg on it! 60kg each leg next week, minimal rest between sets.

SLDL up to 110kg next week. I'm also going to look into using another machine for calves, the standing one I currently use ruins my calves but I'm not sure how much it's isolating them..

Also pinned for the 12th time today, only another 2 T400 injections left :wub:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Haven't ventured any further than my own journal for a while mate. How's it going? You're done with that cutting nonsense and You're now eating some good food, lining up pb's and growing some serious muscle now yeah?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

190kg calf raise? Are you high?


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> 190kg calf raise? Are you high?


Go heavy or go home haha!

But seriously, 190kg you going through full ROM? Form not suffering???


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Haven't ventured any further than my own journal for a while mate. How's it going? You're done with that cutting nonsense and You're now eating some good food, lining up pb's and growing some serious muscle now yeah?


Yeah mannnn, upping weights and getting similar reps 

I'm hoping muscle will come soon! Weekly weigh in tomorrow, I'm expecting to put on a few KG from glycogen/water but we'll see.



robdobbie said:


> 190kg calf raise? Are you high?


The machine has 150kg on it, you crouch under 2 bars, they rest on your shoulders, then you just stand up on tip toes. I added 2 20kg plates to it yesterday. I'll get a photo next time 



ClarkyBoy said:


> Go heavy or go home haha!
> 
> But seriously, 190kg you going through full ROM? Form not suffering???


Well that's the thing, it probably is. I'll try and get someone to video me next time so I can see for myself.

I did say about trying to use another machine to do it. Failing that I could always use the smith machine and add weights to the bar (my gym doesn't have a power rack)


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I dont get the chance to use that machine much but i'm sure the last time i did i used about 70kg on it so 190Kg is very good particularly if you're fetting full stretch of the heel all the way down with a hold before going up onto your toes.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I dont get the chance to use that machine much but i'm sure the last time i did i used about 70kg on it so 190Kg is very good particularly if you're fetting full stretch of the heel all the way down with a hold before going up onto your toes.


There's also a chance that the weights are in lbs, it goes up in 10's, doesn't say kg or lbs though..

I have a feeling I might be shrugging at the top to raise the bar a bit further, I'm gonna use a part of a multigym thing next time to proper isolate my calves. I'll take a photo so you see what I mean.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Chest! 01/03/13
> 
> DB press - 30kg x 10,7,8
> 
> ...


Chest!

DB Press - 32.5kg x 9,8,7

Incline DB Press - 25kg x 9,8,9

Pec Dec - weight 11 x 11,12,10

Dips - BW+11.25kg x 11,8,8

Skull Crushers - 35kg x 11,9,6 dropset 27.5kg x 8

Felt strong today so I had a crack at 32.5's got some good reps too! I'll use that weight next week, progress finally!!!

Increase incline DB to 26kg, pec dec to weight 12, dips up to 12.5kg. I'll be adding an arms day at the end of the week next week so no tricep exercises. Hopefully we'll see more reps from the injectable dbol next week


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Weighed in at 81kg this morning. After my first week of eating 3500 calories, I'm up 2.5kg, hoping it's just water and glycogen, not just fat..


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Weighed in at 81kg this morning. After my first week of eating 3500 calories, I'm up 2.5kg, hoping it's just water and glycogen, not just fat..


Maybe also hoping some is muscle?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Maybe also hoping some is muscle?


I'm pretty sure I've read that as a natty you can gain around 1lb of muscle a month, don't know how much you can gain with steroids..

So maybe, just hoping it's not mainly fat! I start dbol tomorrow so I'm not sure what I can expect the scales to be like next Saturday..


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'm pretty sure I've read that as a natty you can gain around 1lb of muscle a month, don't know how much you can gain with steroids..
> 
> So maybe, just hoping it's not mainly fat! I start dbol tomorrow so I'm not sure what I can expect the scales to be like next Saturday..


Well if your doing 500cals over maintainace a day, that's 3500 over a week, which is enough to build 1lb muscle a week.

So I'm sure you've gained at least a pound of muscle!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Well if your doing 500cals over maintainace a day, that's 3500 over a week, which is enough to build 1lb muscle a week.
> 
> So I'm sure you've gained at least a pound of muscle!


Isn't there also 3500 calories in 1lb of fat :lol:

I think this is actually the first time I've ever eaten in a caloric surplus to try and build muscle mg:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Isnt it around 600-800 in one lb of muscle. It could all be muscle man.  Positivity :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Isnt it around 600-800 in one lb of muscle. It could all be muscle man.  Positivity :laugh:


Haha yes!!!!! I can hope


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Lol i dont know what it takes to actually build it but i'm sure theres scope for a few solid lbs anyway. If you get a bit fat its no big deal if youre gainig lots of muscle. At least thats what i'm telling myself.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Lol i dont know what it takes to actually build it but i'm sure theres scope for a few solid lbs anyway. If you get a bit fat its no big deal if youre gainig lots of muscle. At least thats what i'm telling myself.


Kinda wish I'd just bulked on this cycle, then maybe do a slow cut after it, say 2750 cals a day and take it from there.

Any idea how long you should leave it before you cut after a cycle?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Kinda wish I'd just bulked on this cycle, then maybe do a slow cut after it, say 2750 cals a day and take it from there.
> 
> Any idea how long you should leave it beforyou cut after a cycle?


Yeah, they do say that the first cycle should be a bulk cycle. Sort of makes sense to me.

I'm not sure on timescales for when to cut. Someone more experienced would need to advise on that. Personally i'll be increasing my calories at pct and will continue like that for at least 2 months. I'm using that protocol based on an article i read a while back.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah, they do say that the first cycle should be a bulk cycle. Sort of makes sense to me.
> 
> I'm not sure on timescales for when to cut. Someone more experienced would need to advise on that. Personally i'll be increasing my calories at pct and will continue like that for at least 2 months. I'm using that protocol based on an article i read a while back.


We might've read the same thing, 2 months after PCT was what I had in my head..

What's the reason for increasing calories during PCT? Is that more cals from protein, carbs, fats?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> We might've read the same thing, 2 months after PCT was what I had in my head..
> 
> What's the reason for increasing calories during PCT? Is that more cals from protein, carbs, fats?


Lol are you dying to be a lean machine asap mate?  You got a holiday scheduled?

I wont follow everything on the link i pm'd you, particularly the training style as HIT training held me back for years but he doies specify to use whatever training style suits you.

The diet strategy though i will follow and i will try and keep training sessions brief.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Lol are you dying to be a lean machine asap mate?  You got a holiday scheduled?
> 
> I wont follow everything on the link i pm'd you, particularly the training style as HIT training held me back for years but he doies specify to use whatever training style suits you.
> 
> The diet strategy though i will follow and i will try and keep training sessions brief.


Yeah mate! 2 weeks away with the lads is the plan, think we're going Ayia Napa, maybe Ibiza.

I know I'm not gonna pitch up with abs, but I'd like to be a bit leaner with some muscle. Think having a beach body this summer is out of the question tbh.

Same for me mate. I'll stick at 3500 cals for PCT and adopt the 2 working sets approach. After PCT I'll have a look at that calculator thread on here to work out my new TDEE.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Isn't there also 3500 calories in 1lb of fat :lol:
> 
> I think this is actually the first time I've ever eaten in a caloric surplus to try and build muscle mg:


There is also 600 cals needed to replace a pint of blood,random post i know but true!


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Btw you tried the upright rows on ez yet buddy?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> There is also 600 cals needed to replace a pint of blood,random post i know but true!


Hmmm..... :lol:

The thought of having blood taken makes me cringe, yuck yuck yuck!!!!



biglbs said:


> Btw you tried the upright rows on ez yet buddy?


Not yet mate, shoulders is on Tuesday, I am planning to try it out though


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Yeah mate! 2 weeks away with the lads is the plan, think we're going Ayia Napa, maybe Ibiza.
> 
> I know I'm not gonna pitch up with abs, but I'd like to be a bit leaner with some muscle. Think having a beach body this summer is out of the question tbh.
> 
> Same for me mate. I'll stick at 3500 cals for PCT and adopt the 2 working sets approach. After PCT I'll have a look at that calculator thread on here to work out my new TDEE.


Haha i new there was a motive :laugh: Fair enough, who doesnt want to look good in ibiza!

3500 should be fairly comfortable mate. I'll probably be at 5000 for it. I'm at 4200 just now which is holding me around 180lbs office type job as well. Its a pain with all the food. I can eat it no problem just wish i didnt have to.

Do those tdee calculators work? Good idea for a ballpark but I found them to be a bit off. I find it easier just to work it out through application.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Haha i new there was a motive :laugh: Fair enough, who doesnt want to look good in ibiza!
> 
> 3500 should be fairly comfortable mate. I'll probably be at 5000 for it. I'm at 4200 just now which is holding me around 180lbs office type job as well. Its a pain with all the food. I can eat it no problem just wish i didnt have to.
> 
> Do those tdee calculators work? Good idea for a ballpark but I found them to be a bit off. I find it easier just to work it out through application.


Well that's it see!!!! I don't drink or take any reccy drugs, think of it as my annual liver test :lol:

I know what you mean, I could easily cram in 6000 cals a day, probably not in my IF window though haha. Bulking definitely requires some self control..

Not sure mate, but as a ballpark figure they can't be that off. I think if you're consistent with the numbers it gives you, and you get results, it must be close to calories you actually need for maintenance/bulk/cut.

I do think they'd be more accurate if you used a formula that took body fat into account, calorie requirements differ between two 6 foot 90kg men if one is 20% bf and one is 10% bf...


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Went to KFC last night, had a 6 piece bucket, 2 fries, 3 slices of my mate's pizza from Pizza Hut and an ice cream that was 406 cals.

Felt proper disgusted in myself this morning so I went for some LISS fasted cardio, took some ephedrine and caffeine before I went










Bit blurry but you get the gist. 7km/h, 6% incline, 392 calories burned over 45 minutes :thumbup1:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Started the injectable dbol today and just pinned 0.5ml into each shoulder, fvck me it stings.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Well that's it see!!!! I don't drink or take any reccy drugs, think of it as my annual liver test :lol:
> 
> I know what you mean, I could easily cram in 6000 cals a day, probably not in my IF window though haha. Bulking definitely requires some self control..
> 
> ...


Doesn't katch mcardle consider bodyfat in its equation?

I prefer to just keep it simple and run with what i think it is. 2-3 weeks at the same weight and i've got it lol.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Back!
> 
> BW Pull ups - 13,9,10
> 
> ...


Back!

Deadlifts - 170kg x 5

Pull ups - 9,6,5

Seated row - 77.5kg x 12,10,10

Lat pull down - 66.5kg x 11,10,8

Hammer curls - 15kg x 16, 17kg x 11,8 dropset 10kg x 10

Incline seated curls - 10kg x 13,10 dropset 7kg x 10

What an amazing session, injectable dbol is fvcking beserk!!!!!!!

I was rushed today as I trained during my lunch hour, didn't rest much and maybe that's why a few exercises are down in reps.

Felt good to deadlift again after a month off, 170kg was a good weight to ease back into. Had plenty in the tank after 5 so I'll up it to 172.5kg next week.

I couldn't believe the reps I was hitting with 15kg curls, I usually struggle to get 10 reps, 16 was amazing, veins everywhere!!!! Upped it to 17kg, a few weeks ago I managed a few reps at this weight so to hit 11 and then 8, I was impressed.

I have awful PIP in my shoulders from Sunday's dbol injection, still looking forward to smashing them tomorrow


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Strong deadlifting there mate!

What does the injectable dbol do? How long will you use that?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Strong deadlifting there mate!
> 
> What does the injectable dbol do? How long will you use that?


In my OP I said I'd like to be deadlifting 200kg for reps, can't see me hitting that on this cycle, or my bench/squat goals :wub:

It's a water based esterless version of the oral, works within an hour. Inject it into the muscle you want to train and you train like a beast!

I got it from BSI, give it a try on this cycle mate, it's not expensive and I guarantee you'll love it!

I'm taking it for another 25 days, 1ml ED. I'll be taking it while I wait for the long test esters to clear before I start PCT. All kindsa strength gains!!!!!!


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> In my OP I said I'd like to be deadlifting 200kg for reps, can't see me hitting that on this cycle, or my bench/squat goals :wub:
> 
> It's a water based esterless version of the oral, works within an hour. Inject it into the muscle you want to train and you train like a beast!
> 
> ...


Yes to the his pwo . I was using test suspension pretty good also.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sambuca said:


> Yes to the his pwo . I was using test suspension pretty good also.


I'd love to try their test/dbol mix, doesn't cost much more than just dbol and you also get a cheeky 100mg test in each mil!

Mtren DS seems to be the daddy though, maybe next cycle


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'd love to try their test/dbol mix, doesn't cost much more than just dbol and you also get a cheeky 100mg test in each mil!
> 
> Mtren DS seems to be the daddy though, maybe next cycle


I know the mtren stings like a bitch  I'd like to try it though


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I'll need to research it lol. I know nothing about it, sides etc.

I'll have to start to think about what will make a good 2nd cycle anyway for when i next do one


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I'll need to research it lol. I know nothing about it, sides etc.
> 
> I'll have to start to think about what will make a good 2nd cycle anyway for when i next do one


1-6 Test Prop 100mg EOD

1-6 Tbol 100mg ED

7-10 Nolva and Clomid PCT

Think that's gonna be mine, maybe September/October this year.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just got home from doing fasted cardio, did 45 minutes at a fast pace around my town.

Gonna be like a zombie in work :lol:


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> 1-6 Test Prop 100mg EOD
> 
> 1-6 Tbol 100mg ED
> 
> ...


I would hate to inject EOD lol :\ I was thinking if I ever ran another cycle doing Test E again but with a kickstart of dbol for the first few weeks. Or is Tbol a better option?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

The L Man said:


> I would hate to inject EOD lol :\ I was thinking if I ever ran another cycle doing Test E again but with a kickstart of dbol for the first few weeks. Or is Tbol a better option?


From what I've read, basically Tbol is Dbol without the sides, but it's more expensive than dbol and you usually have to use twice as much


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

The L Man said:


> I would hate to inject EOD lol :\ I was thinking if I ever ran another cycle doing Test E again but with a kickstart of dbol for the first few weeks. Or is Tbol a better option?


It's only 1ml lol. If I'm honest, I don't actually mind injecting..

I'm running prop for 2 weeks before PCT and that'll be 1ml EOD, hopefully those 2 weeks would give me an idea of what to expect.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders! 06/03/13
> 
> DB Press - 30kg x 4, 28kg x 9,8
> 
> ...


DB press - 30kg x 11, 6. 28kg x 8

Behind neck press - smith bar+50kg x 12,13,10

Upright rows EZ bar - 45kg x 7. 42.5kg x 8,7

Face pulls - 75kg x 15,12,12

Lat raise cables - 12.5kg x 11,11

Cable tricep extensions - 60kg x 17,16,12

Single arm kick backs - 15kg x 20,16,12 alternating arms, no rest.

Again, THIS DBOL IS FVCKING BESERK!!! Managed 30kg DB press for 11 when I could only do 4 last week!!!!

Genuinely wish I kick started my cycle with this stuff, the strength gains are crazy! Another 24 days left on it woohoo!!!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs! 07/03/13
> 
> Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs! 14/03/13

Squats ATG - 80kg x 5,5,5

Single leg ext - 60kg x R12,L12,R10,L12,R9,L12

SLDL - 110kg x 10,10

Standing calf raises - 100kg x 20,20,20

Good session today. I altered my grip on the bar with squats so that my hands touch the plates, much more comfy. Proper ATG reps, 80kg felt easy. I'll up it to 85kg next week and focus on form, deloading seems good so far!

Swapped to single leg ext because the machine only goes up to 120kg and that's easy. Single legged variation shows that my right leg is weak!!!!

I'm 100% sure that that barbell I used for SLDL was heavier on the left side, I did 2 sets and canned it. Up to 112.5kg next week, easy.

Calf raises were done REALLY slowly, squeezing at the top and pausing at the bottom, 105kg next week.

Going away with work for a few weeks in November so I'm doing some proper research into another cycle before I go. Unsure of goals yet, thinking of bulking/maintaining for the next few months and then maybe a cutting/recomp cycle.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Apologies if its been said I have a terrible memory, what Dbol you using? And what dose?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Chest! 08/03/13
> 
> DB Press - 32.5kg x 9,8,7
> 
> ...


Chest! 15/03/13

DB press - 32.5kg x 5

Incline DB press - 25kg x 12,8,8

Pec dec - weight 12 x 8,9,10

Dips - BW+12.5kg x 9,7,9

Skull crushers - 35kg x 10,8,7

V bar push downs 50kg x 17,15,13

Absolutely shocking session. I've done something where my pec and anterior delt meet, it literally killed me to do 5 reps of 32.5kg, I'm not sure where to go from here, could probably do without training chest for a bit..

Also when I pinned the dbol before I gym I let go of the needle when it was still in my left tricep, must've had a mind blank or something. The needle drooped to around 30° to my skin, didn't hurt at the time but within an hour it started aching, towards the end of my session it was horrendous, I've actually taken some paracetamol..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Apologies if its been said I have a terrible memory, what Dbol you using? And what dose?


BSI injectable dbol, 0.5ml in each bicep/tricep/delt, an hour before the gym. If you've not tried it, order yourself a vial to try it out, I swear it'll impress you, the strength gains are insane!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> BSI injectable dbol, 0.5ml in each bicep/tricep/delt, an hour before the gym. If you've not tried it, order yourself a vial to try it out, I swear it'll impress you, the strength gains are insane!


Ahhh yeah I remember now mate


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom, you have become a real steroid enthusiast :lol:

Hope the injury is nothing serious mate. Know it all too well myself atm


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Tom, you have become a real steroid enthusiast :lol:
> 
> Hope the injury is nothing serious mate. Know it all too well myself atm


And to think, I always said I'd only do one cycle haha!!!! I just like trying different things. Next Thursday is my last T400 injection, then I start prop at 1ml EOD, then PCT.....

I don't want to come off :wub:


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> And to think, I always said I'd only do one cycle haha!!!! I just like trying different things. Next Thursday is my last T400 injection, then I start prop at 1ml EOD, then PCT.....
> 
> I don't want to come off :wub:


We all said "just one cycle" mate, all of us


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> We all said "just one cycle" mate, all of us


Does this make us drug addicts?!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Does this make us drug addicts?!


Yes you filthy junkie :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Yes you filthy junkie :lol:


My mother would be so disappointed :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Weighed in at 82.5kg this morning, up 1.5kg from last week. An increase of 4kg since I started eating 3500 calories 2 weeks ago.

I've done fasted cardio 3 times this week and still eating using intermittent fasting too.

At this rate I'll be back up to 86kg like when I started my cycle, a true recomp!

I just wish I was leaner so I could tell if these weight increases are muscle or fat..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Had a big cheat meal last night

1 whole large chicken with a Nando's marinade

Bowl of chips

1 whole apple crumble with custard

Felt disgusted with myself this morning so I went for some fasted cardio. Took ephedrine and caffeine before hand and burnt just over 400 calories, walked at a fast pace with an incline for 45 mins


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Weighed in at 82.5kg this morning, up 1.5kg from last week. An increase of 4kg since I started eating 3500 calories 2 weeks ago.
> 
> I've done fasted cardio 3 times this week and still eating using intermittent fasting too.
> 
> ...


I thought you were retaining the leaness with the additional cals?

Loving the nandos btw


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I thought you were retaining the leaness with the additional cals?
> 
> Loving the nandos btw


I still have veins beneath my belly button that weren't there before, also the separations in my thighs are still there. It's obviously not all muscle but I don't think it's much fat..

It was homemade Nando's so when I say I had a whole chicken, it actually was a big whole chicken, not something that was killed at 6 months old, I was fvcking stuffed after it :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I still have veins beneath my belly button that weren't there before, also the separations in my thighs are still there. It's obviously not all muscle but I don't think it's much fat..
> 
> It was homemade Nando's so when I say I had a whole chicken, it actually was a big whole chicken, not something that was killed at 6 months old, I was fvcking stuffed after it :lol:


Sounds like some solid gains then mate. :thumbup1:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Done some fasted cardio this morning, 30 mins on a treadmill at a fast incline. Machine said 300 calories, not sure how accurate that is.

Training back and biceps later, can't wait


----------



## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

The difference between the first picture and the last is massive. Well done mate.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

boutye911 said:


> The difference between the first picture and the last is massive. Well done mate.


Thanks a lot man


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Back! 11/03/13
> 
> Deadlifts - 170kg x 5
> 
> ...


Back! 18/03/13

Deadlift - 172.5kg x 3

Pull ups - 11,8,8

Seated row - 77.5kg x 12,12,11

Lat pull down - 66.5kg x 10,8,7

Hammer curls 17kg x 17,12,10,10

Incline seated curls - 12kg x 10,10, dropset 7kg x 4

The oly bar I used for deadlifts was heavier in my left hand than it was in my right, took 2 reps to realise, I did a third anyway. Next week I'll make sure I grab a different bar and I'll smash it.

Strength on other lifts doesn't seem to be going up


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Back! 18/03/13
> 
> Deadlift - 172.5kg x 3
> 
> ...


Good to see that Deadlift back up mate, solid lifting nice one!

On the other hand, damn that your still whipping my arss on deadlift!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Good to see that Deadlift back up mate, solid lifting nice one!
> 
> On the other hand, damn that your still whipping my arss on deadlift!


My one decent lift :lol:

2.09 x my body weight


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> DB press - 30kg x 11, 6. 28kg x 8
> 
> Behind neck press - smith bar+50kg x 12,13,10
> 
> ...


Shoulders! 19/03/13

DB Press - 30kg x 10,9,7

Behind neck press - smithbar+52.5kg x 15. Bar+57.5kg x 11,11

Upright rows EZ Bar - 42.5kg x 8. 40kg x 11,11

Face pulls 75kg x 15,14,12

Lat raise cables 12.5kg x 14,10,7

Cable tricep extensions - 65kg x 14,14,11, dropsets 55kg x 9, 45kg x 9, 35kg x 12, 25kg x 23

Great session, felt like I spent ages in the gym though!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Rest day from the gym.

Today's dbol injection didn't go well. Thought I'd have a go at pinning my rear delts. When I got around to doing my right one, the plunger in the slin pin got stuck at 20ml. I pushed it as hard as I could and it wouldn't inject. I pushed hard enough that my hand was shaking, basically I've mashed up the muscle with the needle and now my shoulder is fvcked. Can barely lift my arm. Friday's chest session is going to be interesting.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Rest day from the gym.
> 
> Today's dbol injection didn't go well. Thought I'd have a go at pinning my rear delts. When I got around to doing my right one, the plunger in the slin pin got stuck at 20ml. I pushed it as hard as I could and it wouldn't inject. I pushed hard enough that my hand was shaking, basically I've mashed up the muscle with the needle and now my shoulder is fvcked. Can barely lift my arm. Friday's chest session is going to be interesting.


Get some ice (peas)on it ,ten mins at a time 4 times /day mate,watch out if it goes red.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Get some ice (peas)on it ,ten mins at a time 4 times /day mate,watch out if it goes red.


I'm at work right now but I'll do that when I get home.

No redness or swelling this morning. My right shoulder is hurting just as much as my left shoulder so the pain I'm getting is probably from using a virgin muscle.

Struggled with sleep last night, I usually sleep on my sides so I kept waking up whenever I rolled onto my side. God knows how people can sleep flat on their backs!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs! 14/03/13
> 
> Squats ATG - 80kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs!

Squats ATG - 85kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions 80kg x 15,15,15

Lying hamstring curls - 52kg x 10, 56kg x 10, 60kg x 10

Standing calf raises -110kg x 20,20,20

Awful session today. Basically I fell into a table at work today and the corner of it dug right into my left quad. It's actually causing more of a limp than I've had from the T400 for the last 14 weeks!

Basically wanted to get the squats perfect then use a lower weight for everything else. Really concentrated on good slow form with everything, calf raises killed!

On another note, I've had my final injection of the T400! From here;

BSI test prop at 1ml EOD on the 24th March

Finish that and the dbol on the 8th April

Start PCT on the 14th April


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Good luck with the prop man, will be interested to see what it adds really.

Hope eod jabs don't suck for you too much.

Are you dreading pct? I am!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Good luck with the prop man, will be interested to see what it adds really.
> 
> Hope eod jabs don't suck for you too much.
> 
> Are you dreading pct? I am!


I did pin 1.5ml of test prop on accident that one time, didn't warm it up properly and didn't get much PIP. Should be fine with 1ml EOD 

Not gonna lie mate, but I really don't want to come off. I think blasting and cruising in your 20's is kind of irresponsible, so I'll definitely be coming off. I just want August to come around so I can start a new cycle :lol:

Not sure what sort of gains you can expect to make inbetween cycles. I'll probably stick to 3500 calories during PCT and the 4 weeks after, then re-assess and work out my new maintenance calories and drop to that level.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

83.2kg this morning, an increase of 0.7kg over the last week, again, can't really notice if it's fat, water, or muscle.

Anyways, I'm off for some fasted cardio right now, training chest later, too.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Chest! 15/03/13
> 
> DB press - 32.5kg x 5
> 
> ...


Decided not to train chest this week because of the pain I had last week, I'll swap my shoulders and chest days around so chest will be done on Tuesdays. I've been meaning to swap them around anyway, now just seems like a good time to.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Did fasted cardio this morning, 45 minute walk on an incline on a treadmill. 425 cals burnt in 45 mins.

Also feeling like a dartboard today! 0.5ml dbol in each rear delt, 500iU HCG in my belly, and 1ml test prop in my right quad :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Kinda lost motivation for the gym this week, been really busy with work still dragged myself there twice though.

Tuesday - Back

Deadlift 172.5kg x 4, got the fifth rep up to my knees but couldn't lock out

Pull ups - 8,7,6

Got p!ssed off and walked out the gym.

Thursday - legs

Squats 90kg x 5,5,5.

Leg extensions - 90kg x 15,15,15. Nice, slow reps.

Lying leg curls - 60kg x 10,10. 64kg x 9

Standing calf raise - 115kg x 20,20,20. Done as slowly as possible, awesome pumps.

Despite not wanting to go to the gym, it was one of the better sessions I've had.

Did fasted cardio for 40 minutes this morning, going to a beach this afternoon then I'm off to do chest and maybe shoulders at some point this evening.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Did chest today, trained with one of my mates and kinda just winged it

DB press - 32.5kg x 11,7,6. 35kg x 4

Incline smith - bar+40kg x 10. +42.5kg x 10. +45kg x 10. +47.5kg x 10

Incline DB flyes - 3 sets with 15kg, can't remember reps but above 10 on all.

Dips - BW x 12. +10kg x 8. +16kg x 4


----------



## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

How many weeks in are you?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

madocks said:


> How many weeks in are you?


Just passed 15 weeks, finished with the T400 last Thursday, just waiting another 2 weeks for the esters to clear before I start PCT. Can't wait.... NAATTTTTT


----------



## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Before and after pics? or are they in one of the pages that ive missed?


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Proper sounds like your losing the will mate!

Are you not enjoying the prop?

Surely it's worth going flat out right to the end, before the dreaded pct?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

madocks said:


> Before and after pics? or are they in one of the pages that ive missed?


There's some floating about the journal, I'm sure I wrote in the original post what page numbers they are on. I've put on around 4/5kg since I last uploaded photos mind.

I'll take new ones before and after PCT :thumbup1:



IronPhil said:


> Proper sounds like your losing the will mate!
> 
> Are you not enjoying the prop?
> 
> Surely it's worth going flat out right to the end, before the dreaded pct?


It's just been a sh!t week. Next week should be better!

Not gonna lie, but I'm loving the prop!!! I kept waking up last night through my sleep, everytime my dick would be rock hard, I swear. I never felt like this when I was on T400, I must just get on with prop better, PIP is still bad though.

I'm still eating lots, taking prop EOD and dbol ED so hopefully can make some last minute gains!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

40 mins fasted cardio done this morning. I'm dying to try HIIT for a change but my left quad is fvcked, hit a nerve pinning dbol Thursday 21st and it's still aching, also got a bit of pip from pinning prop there on the 28th.

Eating well today

Breakkie - fat bowl of oats, milk, cherry bakewell whey and almond butter stirred in

Lunch - sausage roll sandwich with ketchup, tin of rice pudding, maybe some crisps, an apple and a banana

Dinner - chicken in black bean sauce with noodles, chips and garlic bread. Half of a 12" lemon cheesecake after that


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders! 19/03/13
> 
> DB Press - 30kg x 10,9,7
> 
> ...


Shoulders!

DB press - 30kg x 9,7,5

Behind neck press - smith bar+60kg x 10,8,7

Face pulls - 75kg x 10, 70kg x 18,13

Lat raise cables - 12.5kg x 11,11 10kg x 16

Skull crushers - 27.5kg x 10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10

Decent session, just disappointed with the DB shoulder press. Skull crushers were done lying on the floor so the bar comes to a dead stop, awesome stuff!


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Shoulders!
> 
> DB press - 30kg x 9,7,5
> 
> ...


What is your theory with sooooo many skill crusher sets?

Bet your so pumped you can't pick your own nose!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> What is your theory with sooooo many skill crusher sets?
> 
> Bet your so pumped you can't pick your own nose!


You do get quite pumped :lol:

It's German volume training. Whatever I've been doing to my arms over the last few years hasn't worked, never tried GVT before so why not? Nothing seems to work for me.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

RS4 said:


> which prop are you using and how much?


BSI's, it's 100mg/ml, 1ml EOD.

You thinking of running a prop cycle? My next cycle will definitely be with faster esters, gets to work quicker and leaves your system quicker..

Only downside is pinning EOD, doesn't bother me though.


----------



## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> You do get quite pumped :lol:
> 
> It's German volume training. Whatever I've been doing to my arms over the last few years hasn't worked, never tried GVT before so why not? Nothing seems to work for me.


I've been incorporating gvt into my leg sessions once a week (train legs twice weekly) and have seen a massive difference in a relatively short period of time. Let us know how you get on mate.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Back!

Deadlifts - 172.5kg x 3

Pull ups - 9,7,6

Seated rows - 80kg x 11,8,10

Hammer curls - 17kg x 14,9,11

Incline seated curls - 12kg x 9,10

Second back session in a row where I've been p!ssed off when I leave. I have gained fvck all from this cycle, absolute waste of time. 15 weeks later and I'm still struggling with the same weights ffs!!! Can't make gains on cycle, probably not gonna make any gains when I'm off cycle, after I finish PCT next month. What is the fvcking point.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

You need to follow the 5 x 5 strength routine i recommended,no more than it says and no less.

Eat enough food and you will grow(rest too)it realy is that simple.If you do not stick at the same thing for 6 -8 weeks at your stage you will not get your goals,you deserve them so try it ,what you gotta lose?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> You need to follow the 5 x 5 strength routine i recommended,no more than it says and no less.
> 
> Eat enough food and you will grow(rest too)it realy is that simple.If you do not stick at the same thing for 6 -8 weeks at your stage you will not get your goals,you deserve them so try it ,what you gotta lose?


I was actually looking at Wendler's 5/3/1 earlier, what's your thoughts on that?

When I BB bench, squat, and deadlift I only do 5 reps then up the weight, then assistance exercises are higher reps.

I'm definitely eating enough, I worked out my BMR to be just under 3000 cals and I'm eating around 3500cals a day, 366p 202c 120f.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I was actually looking at Wendler's 5/3/1 earlier, what's your thoughts on that?
> 
> When I BB bench, squat, and deadlift I only do 5 reps then up the weight, then assistance exercises are higher reps.
> 
> I'm definitely eating enough, I worked out my BMR to be just under 3000 cals and I'm eating around 3500cals a day, 366p 202c 120f.


Yes anything like that will do good,but DO NOT DO MORE!This is such a commen mistake,more is less remember,food wise are you gaining 2lbs/week if not up it by 500 cals /day and review in a week or so mate.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Yes anything like that will do good,but DO NOT DO MORE!This is such a commen mistake,more is less remember,food wise are you gaining 2lbs/week if not up it by 500 cals /day and review in a week or so mate.


I'll definitely look into that routine a bit more, would you recommend starting it while I'm on PCT? I was thinking about going to a push/pull/legs split to allow more recovery time.

Yeah I'm gaining roughly 1kg/week, can't notice any size increase or strength increase though..


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'll definitely look into that routine a bit more, would you recommend starting it while I'm on PCT? I was thinking about going to a push/pull/legs split to allow more recovery time.
> 
> Yeah I'm gaining roughly 1kg/week, can't notice any size increase or strength increase though..


Well that gain is bang on,so it must be going somewhere!?!?!

Yes start it anytime mate,though you will not gain a lot in pct,on any system


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Well that gain is bang on,so it must be going somewhere!?!?!
> 
> Yes start it anytime mate,though you will not gain a lot in pct,on any system


Agreed but I can't tell if its fat/muscle/water, guess I just thought muscle gains would've been more noticeable one gear..

That's decided it then. I'll finish this gym week and start PPL from next week, focusing on compound lifts for "strength training reps", then 2/3 assistance exercises with higher reps :thumbup1:

I'll keep diet the same, allowing for a cheat meal on a Saturday night, my diet is 100% clean the rest of the week.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Give it 8 weeks and see,

solid muscle at 2lbs per week is respectable mate,half that is prolly solid,the rest water/bloods,tbh that is ok though,10 week course =10lb of solid mass=good!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Give it 8 weeks and see,
> 
> solid muscle at 2lbs per week is respectable mate,half that is prolly solid,the rest water/bloods,tbh that is ok though,10 week course =10lb of solid mass=good!


Silver lining and all that haha! Thanks for the advice


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Reps coming your way big lbs you knowledgeable fvcker x

Edit: I lied, have to share them around 1st oops!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Trained in a fasted state this morning, it was a rest day but I threw in some tricep work and 20 mins cardio.

Also just used up the last of my prop, turns out I've been jabbing 1.5ml when I should only have been using 1ml! Must've forgotten that I'd switched from T400 to prop and carried on with the same dose..

I finish with the dbol next Monday and then start PCT on the Thursday, joy!

Going to my local gym's circuits in the morning and then training legs tomorrow afternoon


----------



## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Your log says you started at 85 kg 17% bf, what is your weight and bf now?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

madocks said:


> Your log says you started at 85 kg 17% bf, what is your weight and bf now?


I'm currently around 83kg, ignore that % as I've learnt that scales' readings are garbage!

Most of the weight I lost on DNP has come back and not in the form of muscle!

When I look in the mirror I look the same as before I started my cycle. I still don't have abs and I'm still the unfortunate owner of a pair of tits!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'm currently around 83kg, ignore that % as I've learnt that scales' readings are garbage!
> 
> Most of the weight I lost on DNP has come back and not in the form of muscle!
> 
> When I look in the mirror I look the same as before I started my cycle. I still don't have abs and I'm still the unfortunate owner of a pair of tits!


Didn't you say to me a few weeks ago you were growing and retaining leaness mate?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Didn't you say to me a few weeks ago you were growing and retaining leaness mate?


It's hard to explain. My thighs are more defined than they've ever been, I have veins above my pubes that I've never had before, but my upper half is still looking the same in the mirror, if you get me. Forgot to weigh myself last weekend but I'll make sure I do it this weekend.

Also someone in work said the other day that my cheeks are filling out again, fvck my life.

My head's just been in a state the last week or so, dunno what's up with me.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Thursday - legs
> 
> Squats 90kg x 5,5,5.
> 
> ...


Legs!

Squats - 95kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 95kg x 15,11,11

Lying leg curls - 64kg x 11,9,7

Standing calf raise - 120kg x 20,20,20

Decent session. I'll be starting PCT the day I train legs next, it's gonna be interesting, hopefully I'll increase the squats to 100kg and keep my form solid. I'll increase it 2.5kg when I can do 3x5 good, ATG reps.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> DB press - 32.5kg x 11,7,6. 35kg x 4
> 
> Incline smith - bar+40kg x 10. +42.5kg x 10. +45kg x 10. +47.5kg x 10
> 
> ...


Chest!

DB press 32.5kg x 10,9. 35kg x 7,4

Incline smith - bar+42.5kg x 10, +45kg x 10, +47.5kg x 8, +50kg x 8

Incline db flies - 15kg x 9,9,8

Dips - 10,9,9

Was going to finish off with skull crushers but someone was using the EZ bar that doesn't ruin your hands.

Having an arms session before heading to the beach in the morning 

Also, gonna make sure I weigh myself in the morning, I was 83.2kg 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

85kg this morning, an increase of 1.8kg over the last 2 weeks.

Had an arms session this morning and it was good, did CGBP, skull crushers on the floor, push downs, EZ bar curls, and hammer curls.

Also had my last dbol injection this morning so that's me done with the injectables!

Starting PCT next Thursday;

Clomid 100/100/50/50

Nolva 20/20/20/20

DAA 4g ED

VIT D 5000iU ED

Creatine 5g ED

Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg ED

Omega 3/6/9 6g ED

Multivitamins 2 ED


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just been for some HIIT cardio, first time I've ever done it.

Ran on the treadmill for 5 mins at 10km/h to warm up. Then did 30 seconds at 16km/h, 1 minute at 10km/h and repeated for 15 minutes. Left the gym dripping with sweat, can't wait to do it again in the morning!!

Having a cheat meal tonight and it'll probably be my last one for a while. Getting a Chinese in, salt and pepper ribs, Singapore chow mein, chips, and curry sauce. Lemon cheesecake for desert


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Fasted cardio this morning, 30 minutes on a treadmill 6km/h at 10% incline, got a decent sweat on!

Moving onto a Pull/Legs/Push split this week, looking forward to mixing things up.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Fasted cardio this morning, 30 minutes on a treadmill 6km/h at 10% incline, got a decent sweat on!
> 
> Moving onto a Pull/Legs/Push split this week, looking forward to mixing things up.


Finally a sensible split!

I think you'll see much better gains on that mate, I know I have since I made the swap about a year ago!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Finally a sensible split!
> 
> I think you'll see much better gains on that mate, I know I have since I made the swap about a year ago!


Hopefully mate. It'll be interesting to see if I can make some gains when I'm training after PCT. I did start the journal with a 3 days split but I thought I'd take advantage of the quicker recovery you get while on gear.

My squat is worse than when I started this cycle, my deadlift is the same, but bench has gone from using 27.5kg dumbells to being able to use 35kgs!! Always found it harder to progress with dumbells as opposed to with a barbell.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Back!
> 
> Deadlifts - 172.5kg x 3
> 
> ...


Pull day!

Deadlifts - 172.5kg x 4.5

Pull ups - 7,5,4

Seated row - 80kg x 10,9,8

Face pulls - 70kg x 13,11,10

Hammer curls - 17kg x 12,9,6

Concentration curl machine 38kg x 10,8

Couldn't lock out on the fifth rep of deadlifts, so close though!!! If I don't get 5 reps next week, I'll re-assess..

Also a few of my lifts seem to be getting worse, which is a bit concerning.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Getting strong mate,size is on its heals too,,,


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Getting strong mate,size is on its heals too,,,


Hope so mate! I'll put some pictures up on Thursday before I start PCT.

How long would you recommend me to keep my calories this high after PCT, before I re-assess my maintenance calories?


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Hope so mate! I'll put some pictures up on Thursday before I start PCT.
> 
> How long would you recommend me to keep my calories this high after PCT, before I re-assess my maintenance calories?


Only way to be sure is let mirror tell you mate,but if you do not feed them enough they will fade away.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Only way to be sure is let mirror tell you mate,but if you do not feed them enough they will fade away.


I'm sh!t at using mirrors for judgement, my reflection looks the same as it did last December..

I'd continue with my current diet throughout PCT and then my 3 week course away with work starts in May, just gonna have to take a 5kg bag of whey and oats with me, and hope for the best :lol:


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'm sh!t at using mirrors for judgement, my reflection looks the same as it did last December..
> 
> I'd continue with my current diet throughout PCT and then my 3 week course away with work starts in May, just gonna have to take a 5kg bag of whey and oats with me, and hope for the best :lol:


If you wanna be a BB ,you better learn how to use mirror constuctively,looking for condition/feeling skin thickness and clothing fit,along with Abs/vascularity and overall condition mate,i never mattered for me as i am just a weightlifter,fook all that sh1t!pmsl


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> If you wanna be a BB ,you better learn how to use mirror constuctively,looking for condition/feeling skin thickness and clothing fit,along with Abs/vascularity and overall condition mate,i never mattered for me as i am just a weightlifter,fook all that sh1t!pmsl


Haha! I'd never give myself the title 'Bodybuilder', don't get me wrong I do want abs and muscle, but don't want the size..

On a side note, my nuts have been aching now and again for the past 2 days, any guesses as to what's going on? I'd like to think its my nuts starting to produce test again but I don't know, haven't started PCT yet.


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Haha! I'd never give myself the title 'Bodybuilder', don't get me wrong I do want abs and muscle, but don't want the size..
> 
> On a side note, my nuts have been aching now and again for the past 2 days, any guesses as to what's going on? I'd like to think its my nuts starting to produce test again but I don't know, haven't started PCT yet.


Normal it would sound like they are firing up mate,when was last jabs,what were they?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Normal it would sound like they are firing up mate,when was last jabs,what were they?


T400 was Thursday 28th March

Test prop was one day last week

Inj dbol was on Saturday 6th April


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> T400 was Thursday 28th March
> 
> Test prop was one day last week
> 
> Inj dbol was on Saturday 6th April


Looks good mate,tbh


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Testes are always producing a small amount of test I believe even during a heavy cycle. So maybe the ache is them changing from producing a really small amount and starting to produce a bit more?

What's your pct consist of?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Testes are always producing a small amount of test I believe even during a heavy cycle. So maybe the ache is them changing from producing a really small amount and starting to produce a bit more?
> 
> What's your pct consist of?


Clomid 100/100/50/50

Nolva 20/20/20/20

DAA 4g ED

VIT D 5000iU ED

Creatine 5g ED

Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg ED

Omega 3/6/9 6g ED

Multivitamins 2 ED


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Clomid 100/100/50/50
> 
> Nolva 20/20/20/20
> 
> ...


WOW that's a lot of stuff mg:

Looks like you've covered all bases there mate, I mean there's no HCG but tbf I've never used it and its never lost me gains. Clomid for me works fine, but I do get hot flushes from it, so be aware you might find yourself having to strip down to a tshirt just walking around town!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> WOW that's a lot of stuff mg:
> 
> Looks like you've covered all bases there mate, I mean there's no HCG but tbf I've never used it and its never lost me gains. Clomid for me works fine, but I do get hot flushes from it, so be aware you might find yourself having to strip down to a tshirt just walking around town!


I used HCG on cycle, thought I wouldn't have to use it in PCT!! 

Stripping down shouldn't be a problem, I live in Cyprus so I hardly ever wear much clothes :lol:

Was going to rep you and biglbs but I have to spread it around first lol!

Actually in the middle of uploading new photos..


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

So tomorrow I start PCT. This morning I weighed in at a whopping 85kg, the exact same weight as when I started this thread.

Here's some photos before PCT, I'll probably take more when I'm done.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh and my starting pics


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

To be brutally honest mate, whilst there is change, and good change, a loss of bf is obvious, I do think you would have seen more benefit if you had a higher muscle mass to start with.

If you had say another stone of muscle on you, then the calories taken in would have been used to feed the muscle if that makes sense, so more fat would have been burnt when in a cal deficit.

I think a big lean bulk is in order next, build up then cut later.

That being said I think in pic 1 particularly you can see a definite loss of the belly, which is damn good going.

I bet you've learnt a hell of a lot, so don't get disheartened the weight hasn't changed, as if you've lost fat, but weight is constant, you've clearly gained muscle!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> To be brutally honest mate, whilst there is change, and good change, a loss of bf is obvious, I do think you would have seen more benefit if you had a higher muscle mass to start with.
> 
> If you had say another stone of muscle on you, then the calories taken in would have been used to feed the muscle if that makes sense, so more fat would have been burnt when in a cal deficit.
> 
> ...


Completely agree with what you're saying. I do some transformations on here and think how the fvck have you managed that?!

Lean bulking is the plan from here on out.

Deffo learnt a bit over the last few months, I don't think I'll touch DNP or T3 ever again.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Completely agree with what you're saying. I do some transformations on here and think how the fvck have you managed that?!
> 
> Lean bulking is the plan from here on out.
> 
> Deffo learnt a bit over the last few months, I don't think I'll touch DNP or T3 ever again.


I think if you want to risk it (there are many worries about heart problems) clen may be a good alternative to dnp for after your bulk. Its anti catabolic so prevents a loss of muscle, and personally I have only used it at a lowish dose (80mcg) to see how I went, and the fat just vanished.

But like I say, well done for what you've achieved so far, its onwards and upwards from here. 90kgs after your bulk?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> I think if you want to risk it (there are many worries about heart problems) clen may be a good alternative to dnp for after your bulk. Its anti catabolic so prevents a loss of muscle, and personally I have only used it at a lowish dose (80mcg) to see how I went, and the fat just vanished.
> 
> But like I say, well done for what you've achieved so far, its onwards and upwards from here. 90kgs after your bulk?


I'll look into that. When I do start cutting I imagine I'd start by reducing calories, then doing more cardio, and then look into using something like clen.

90kg with abs is my long term goal actually! I could bulk to 90kg but it'll take a long time as a natty, so I don't really want to put a number on it. When I get there, I get there. Then I'll look into cutting


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Mate your stomach looks infinitely better!

Legs look fantastic too, nice work with the fat loss!

Even though you haven't really gained that much muscle, you look tons better and should be proud.

Now you know how to pin, what it feels like to be on, how to eat, next cycle you can go all out and add some serious lean mass!

Good job son I've enjoyed following this!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I'll look into that. When I do start cutting I imagine I'd start by reducing calories, then doing more cardio, and then look into using something like clen.
> 
> 90kg with abs is my long term goal actually! I could bulk to 90kg but it'll take a long time as a natty, so I don't really want to put a number on it. When I get there, I get there. Then I'll look into cutting


Why, are you going natty for good now? Not planning a second cycle?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Mate your stomach looks infinitely better!
> 
> Legs look fantastic too, nice work with the fat loss!
> 
> ...


My quads have leaned out quite a lot, wish I'd lost more fat off my chest and mid section but hey ho!

I was only in your journal earlier, can't believe you're using 32.5kg DBs for shoulder press!



onthebuild said:


> Why, are you going natty for good now? Not planning a second cycle?


Nahh not for good! I am intrigued by tren its recomping abilities really impress me, looking at using Fuerza's Super Rip right now, but still only looking into it.

I've got months off yet for recovery and no doubt I'll be fascinated by something else by the time it comes to starting my next one!


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Im on the tren atm, only week 3 but noticing strength, appetite and general alertness all shooting up. And that's at 250mg per week... Im about to double that dose...


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Im on the tren atm, only week 3 but noticing strength, appetite and general alertness all shooting up. And that's at 250mg per week... Im about to double that dose...


You hard bastard :lol:

Surprised I haven't been flamed for using the word tren, considering I haven't got a previous 10 cycles under my belt..

If I can research it and learn lots about what it does, how it does it, dealing with side effects etc., then what's the difference between me and anyone else using it??

Is that Ace or E you're using?

My biggest concern is getting permanently shut down, just doing a bit more reading into it now. Trying to find out about recovery when people have used HCG whilst taking tren..


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> You hard bastard :lol:
> 
> Surprised I haven't been flamed for using the word tren, considering I haven't got a previous 10 cycles under my belt..
> 
> ...


Tren is great for me, get on so well with it! Its E im using, hence not seeing the fatloss yet but next few weeks I hope!

Permanent shutdown shouldn't happen with HCG mate, I used it at a low dose first time and recovered fine with a clomid+nolva pct and no HCG.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Tren is great for me, get on so well with it! Its E im using, hence not seeing the fatloss yet but next few weeks I hope!
> 
> Permanent shutdown shouldn't happen with HCG mate, I used it at a low dose first time and recovered fine with a clomid+nolva pct and no HCG.


Gonna see some big changes in your journal soon then 

That's good to know, gives me a bit more confidence about it all.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Gonna see some big changes in your journal soon then
> 
> That's good to know, gives me a bit more confidence about it all.


Don't get me wrong, its a terrible feeling coming off it you feel so lethargic, drained etc. Had a few mishaps in the bedroom, where it all worked fine but just couldn't finish. But a few weeks into PCT this went and all was well.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

You've done well mate, can definitely see a difference in your back, delts and quads! It was that dnp that f*cked you over I think, you should've cut naturally then done a massive bulk and not worried about your weight, but you probably already know that. This is a long game and you've got plenty of time to get to the size you want, next cycle you'll know what to do and what works for you straight away :thumbup1:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> You've done well mate, can definitely see a difference in your back, delts and quads! It was that dnp that f*cked you over I think, you should've cut naturally then done a massive bulk and not worried about your weight, but you probably already know that. This is a long game and you've got plenty of time to get to the size you want, next cycle you'll know what to do and what works for you straight away :thumbup1:


Thanks man 

Completely agree, lost a bit of belly fat and there's no chance of it coming back!!!!

Still thinking of a dbol cycle? You should just jump in at the deep end and get some injectables in you :devil2:


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Looking great in avi mate.

I am on Tren h (parabolan-old school) propionate it acts for 7 days normaly i have been on 11 days and have just realy noticed changes,now i am dropping dose then stopping for three weeks,then i will repeat on/off all year...


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Looking great in avi mate.
> 
> I am on Tren h (parabolan-old school) propionate it acts for 7 days normaly i have been on 11 days and have just realy noticed changes,now i am dropping dose then stopping for three weeks,then i will repeat on/off all year...


Cheers mate 

Been trying to rep you the last few days but have to spread it around first :lol:

Out of interest, what would you recommend as a next cycle?


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Cheers mate
> 
> Been trying to rep you the last few days but have to spread it around first :lol:
> 
> Out of interest, what would you recommend as a next cycle?


 4try What i am on,it is superb and old school.

Alpha pharma ampules too not multi dose,

Parabolan 76 mg and propionate 100mg,use prop EOD and Parabolan every 4th day,no need to go higher on dose as gear is good quality....


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Thanks man
> 
> Completely agree, lost a bit of belly fat and there's no chance of it coming back!!!!
> 
> Still thinking of a dbol cycle? You should just jump in at the deep end and get some injectables in you :devil2:


Yeah, think I'm going to get some blue hearts, pricey but should be worth it, run it at 30mg increasing to 50mg over 8-10 weeks, if everything goes well then I'll definitely be doing a test cycle next year.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

biglbs said:


> 4try What i am on,it is superb and old school.
> 
> Alpha pharma ampules too not multi dose,
> 
> Parabolan 76 mg and propionate 100mg,use prop EOD and Parabolan every 4th day,no need to go higher on dose as gear is good quality....


<3 ap prop


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> 4try What i am on,it is superb and old school.
> 
> Alpha pharma ampules too not multi dose,
> 
> Parabolan 76 mg and propionate 100mg,use prop EOD and Parabolan every 4th day,no need to go higher on dose as gear is good quality....


Can't say I've heard of that brand, or Parabolan, will do some research tonight 



robdobbie said:


> Yeah, think I'm going to get some blue hearts, pricey but should be worth it, run it at 30mg increasing to 50mg over 8-10 weeks, if everything goes well then I'll definitely be doing a test cycle next year.


I'm sure you'll get on well with blue hearts, heard good things 

Kinda wish I'd kick started this cycle with dbol, read lots about doing a 'test only first cycle to see what the side effects are'.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Yup im vouchin for ap too. I had test e though. Shot it in about ten seconds.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs!
> 
> Squats - 95kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs!

Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 95kg x 15,11,11

Lying leg curls - 64kg x 11,9,7

Standing calf raises - 125kg x 20,16,17

Actually had an amazing session today. Read an article about training on PCT and it advised that you keep training sessions short because of a cortisol release over a certain period of time. With that in mind I had little rest in between sets, I struggled to walk after leg extensions, so pumped!!!!

I'll start increasing squats by 2.5kg each week from now on. The way I see it is that if I'm getting stronger during PCT, I'm not losing muscle..


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Legs!
> 
> Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Are you sure the leg extention machine is kilo,they are mostly in Lbs mate210lbs or 230 lbs is normaly the stack


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Are you sure the leg extention machine is kilo,they are mostly in Lbs mate210lbs or 230 lbs is normaly the stack


This stack goes up to 120, I just assumed it was KG, nothing written on it, way to put me down though :lol:


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> This stack goes up to 120, I just assumed it was KG, nothing written on it, way to put me down though :lol:


In that case it is kilo mate,all good:thumb:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> In that case it is kilo mate,all good:thumb:


If its is lbs, we'll just keep it between us :lol:


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> If its is lbs, we'll just keep it between us :lol:


Feel better now motherfooker?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

biglbs said:


> Feel better now motherfooker?


Yeahhhhh!!

On another note, I'm actually feeling really good. Haven't had pains in my nuts since the other day, no lethargy, I don't feel like crying, looking forward to a dirty bucket of KFC Saturday night though


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Enjoy mate


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

So Wednesday I weighed 85kg and started PCT on Thursday, this morning I weighed 84.2kg. Quite shocked by the weightloss if I'm honest, expected it to go up since I've just started taking creatine.

Also I used calipers to measure the fat between my belly button and hipbone, just to keep an eye in it over the next few weeks, that was 9mm.

Looking at doing the push day of my routine today.

DB bench 3x6-10

OHP 3x8-12

Dips 3xf

Skull crushers 3x12-15

Thoughts?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Push day!

DB chest press - 35kg x 7,6,7

Behind neck OHP - smith bar+60kg x 8,8,6

Dips - 14,9,9

Skull crushers - 30kg x 12,11,10

Not a bad session, in and out in half hour, I'll use the same weights next week, maybe decrease skull crushers so I can get 12-15 reps.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day!
> 
> Deadlifts - 172.5kg x 4.5
> 
> ...


Deadlifts - 172.5kg x 5

Pull ups - 9,7,5

Seated row - 80kg x 11,8,7

Face pulls - 70kg x 11, 65kg x 11,13

Hammer curls - 17kg x 12,10,7

Finally managed 5 reps on deadlifts, I was stuck on 172.5kg for my entire cycle, typical that I only go past it when I'm on PCT! Increase to 175kg next week.

Other lifts went well too, feel like I'm in a good place right now


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs!
> 
> Squats - 100kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Leg day!

Squats - 102.5kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 95kg x 15, 12,10

Lying leg curls - 64kg x 12,8,8

Standing calf raises - 125kg x 20,20,20

Not a bad session, happy with how squats went, progression seems to be going good 

Coming to the end of my first week of PCT, if I'm honest it hasn't been too bad, compared to things I've read! Admittedly I did have a good cry the other day because of a photo of my nan that I found, she died last year, nothing to do with PCT, it happened a few times on cycle.

The rest of the time has been positive, I feel no different to how I felt the last few months.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

After I finish PCT next month I'm going on a 6 week course with work. After those 6 weeks I'll be looking at getting bloods done, should everything be ok, I'll be jumping back on cycle.

My current thoughts are

1-9 1.5ml Fuerza Super Rip EOD

10-12 1ml Fuerza Test Prop EOD

3-12 HCG 500 iU 2x weekly

Clen 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

Undecided about what AI to use, I want to try Aromasin but can only get pharma letro and pharma adex

PCT of Nolva and Clomid.

After I've finished that cycle I'll guarantee to be off gear for at least 8/10 months because of work.

I'm going to mull it over today and probably make my order tonight..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Youre going back on gear after just 6 weeks off? You should just have stayed on lol


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Youre going back on gear after just 6 weeks off? You should just have stayed on lol


Yeah around 6 weeks after PCT. I would stay on but I'm on a course with work and can't take anything during that time, looking forward to riding the tren train :devil2:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just got back from a 45 minute circuits session at my gym. Got a good sweat on, decent pump, and got to perv on women... WINNING

I'm not really doing as much cardio while I'm on PCT but I do value my cardiovascular capacity, good for your heart too, apparently.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Push day!
> 
> DB chest press - 35kg x 7,6,7
> 
> ...


Push Day!

DB press 35kg x 9,8,5

Behind neck OHP - smith bar+60kg x 8,5 +40kg x 13

Dips - 15,9,10

Skull crushers - 27.5kg x 15,12,13

Good session, happy with progression on DB press, getting more reps every week.

I'm not sure I'm doing enough volume for shoulders, thinking of adding in 3 sets of lateral raises after dips.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Weighed in at 84.4kg this morning, an increase in 0.2kg in the last week.

Baffles me how I can eat 3500 calories a day and stay at a similar weight, I always thought I'd notice a lot more weight gain after eating this much for so long.

Tonight I'm having a madras with all the trimmings and snickers+Oreo ice cream, I LOVE SATURDAYS!!!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Deadlifts - 172.5kg x 5
> 
> Pull ups - 9,7,5
> 
> ...


Pull day!

Deadlifts 175kg x 5 - PB!!!!!

Pull ups - 9,6,5

Seated row - 80kg x 8,9,6

Concentration curl machine - 38kg x 10,9,9

Finally got a personal best on deadlifts! December was the last time I hit a PB on this, before I started T400..

Completely forgot about doing face pulls!

Used the concentration machine because the main area was overcrowded.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Well in mate! Over 2xbw lift :thumbup1:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Deadlifts are getting serious now!

Good pressing too mate


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Your deads are off the chain mate!!

You are now my inspiration. One day I want to deadlift as much as you!! One day soon please!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks a lot guys, I was surprised at how easy it felt tbh! I struggled with 172.5kg for 5 reps for an age, my first go at 175kg for 5 and I smashed it! Have to see how I do with 177.5kg next week!

@simonthepieman I've noticed my DB bench has gone up quite a bit, last month i was using 30kg DBs for chest AND shoulder press!! Hopefully I'll continue to gain through PCT, even though weight gain has stalled on 3500 cals..


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm very jealous. I was wanted to have a go at 195KG today, but I tweaked a groin stretching of all things, :cursing:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> I'm very jealous. I was wanted to have a go at 195KG today, but I tweaked a groin stretching of all things, :cursing:


Why would you be jealous? I'm still 20kg behind you :lol:

Also I don't think my squat or bench compares to yours either. Can't remember your stats off the top of my head..


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

ha ha, at least you can squat. no lower work outs this week now for me. stupid groin muscle


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Legs day

Leg extensions 95kg x 15,15,15

Lying leg curls - 64kg x 12,10,7

Calf raises - 130kg x 20,20,20

Had a quick light session just now. Had a buzzing headache all day but didn't want to miss a workout.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

No squats? They can sometimes help you forget about the pain :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> No squats? They can sometimes help you forget about the pain :laugh:


Mate I've been fvcking rough all day, felt like it was better than not doing anything at all..

Even leg extensions were making my head hurt :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Push Day!
> 
> DB press 35kg x 9,8,5
> 
> ...


Push day!

DB chest press - 35kg x 9,8,9

DB shoulder press - 30kg x 6. 28kg x 8,7

Dips - 10,8,9

Cable lateral raises - 10kg x 15,12,12

Rope push downs - 50kg x 15,14,9, dropset 25kg x 8

Head was hurting a lot throughout that session, getting a real bad pain in the back of my head, first noticed it on Wednesday when I felt a bit poorly.

Yesterday morning I managed 11.7 on a bleep test and then finished up with some HIIT around a football pitch 

Finished my second week of PCT too, feeling pretty good.


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Push day!
> 
> DB chest press - 35kg x 9,8,9
> 
> ...


That shoulder press is coming along sweet mate, nice one!

Do you reckon your feeling shart is just due to the pct meds?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> That shoulder press is coming along sweet mate, nice one!
> 
> Do you reckon your feeling shart is just due to the pct meds?


When I was doing shoulders and chest on different days, I could press the 30s for like 11 reps on the first set, surprising how much it takes it out of you after chest pressing first!

Not at all mate. I worked for 18 hours on Tuesday and it fvcked me up. Had a bad head all Wednesday and it hurt again today when I was training. Honestly apart from these headaches PCT has been a breeze. Gonna wait until after I'm finished before I get bloods done, hopefully everything will be alright..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Some really good lifting in here mate.

I agree pct is a breeze. I think a lot of its psychological.

You seem to be performing better through pct if anything. :thumbup1:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Some really good lifting in here mate.
> 
> I agree pct is a breeze. I think a lot of its psychological.
> 
> You seem to be performing better through pct if anything. :thumbup1:


I know right?! Was my cycle a waste of time?? Hitting PBs in PCT!!!!

Maybe next time I'll use something stronger than BSI's T400... :lol:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Weighed myself this morning and I was a whopping 84.4kg, zero weight gain in 2 weeks now.

Has 3500 become my new maintenance calories?

This week I've trained push, pull, legs, and done one session of HIIT.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Looks like you're around about there for that weight mate. 3500 is holding me at 78.8kg (with a bit more bodyfat). I need to eat more than you :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Looks like you're around about there for that weight mate. 3500 is holding me at 78.8kg (with a bit more bodyfat). I need to eat more than you :laugh:


Weird how it works tbh, surprising that eating this much hasn't turned me into an obese fvcker :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Lol eating 3500 and i'm always still starving mate. :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Went out on the lash for a workmate's leaving do last night, first time I've drunk this year!

Must've had about 10 vodka redbulls and I was steaming! Makes a change from being an antisocial bastard and staying in on weekends.

Also went to McDonald's at the end of the night, first time for that this year too.

Today I plan to stay wrapped up in bed watching Harry potter films, probably going to have a bowl of oats in a bit. Lasagne for tea tonight with a toffee cheesecake for desert


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day!
> 
> Deadlifts 175kg x 5 - PB!!!!!
> 
> ...


Pull day!

Deadlifts 177.5kg x 2.5

Seated row - 80kg x 12,12,12

Face pulls - 65kg x 15,14,12

Chin ups 8,6,5

DB hammer curls 17.5kg x 11,10,9 dropset 7.5kg x 8

Gutted about the deadlifts, don't think my head was in it tbh. Got the third rep above my knees but couldn't lock out.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

'x2.5' :lol:

I've seen recently a few guys mention speed deadlifts, I've not given it a go yet but apparently it can really help the explosiveness of your DL, basically do you normal working sets for deads, then at the end add 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps at 60% of your 1rm, fast up, controlled/regular pace down. Worth a shot maybe? :thumb:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> 'x2.5' :lol:
> 
> I've seen recently a few guys mention speed deadlifts, I've not given it a go yet but apparently it can really help the explosiveness of your DL, basically do you normal working sets for deads, then at the end add 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps at 60% of your 1rm, fast up, controlled/regular pace down. Worth a shot maybe? :thumb:


Half a rep is better than not attempting the rep :lol:

To be fair it was very hot in my gym yesterday, it's around 31/32 degrees here right now. Can't see me squatting and deadlifting when it's the peak of summer..

Those speed deadlifts do sound good though. 2/3 sets mg: If I set my 1rm as 200kg then I'll use 120kg and give them a try next week :thumbup1:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs day
> 
> Leg extensions 95kg x 15,15,15
> 
> ...


Legs day!

Squats - 105kg x 5,5,5

Leg extensions - 95kg x 15,14,11

Lying leg curls - 64kg x 13,9,8

Calf raise - 130kg x 20,20,20

Good session today, no headaches


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Push day!
> 
> DB chest press - 35kg x 9,8,9
> 
> ...


Push day!

Db chest press - 35kg x 9,8,6

Behind neck press - bar+60kg x 7,8,6

Incline db press - 25kg x 11,8,7

Dips 10,8,8

Lateral Cable raise 12.5kg x8. 10kg x15,15

Push downs 50kg x18,11,11 DS 30kg x10

Amazing session! Took 1 DHacks power stack and 1 scoop of DS craze and spent over an hour buzzing in the gym!

Got my training partner to take a random back shot too



Also a few random ones


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day!
> 
> Deadlifts 177.5kg x 2.5
> 
> ...


Pull day!

Deadlifts - 177.5kg x 4, 120 x 8

Seated row 80kg x12,12,10

Face pulls - 35kg x 11, 32.5kg x 11, 9

Chins 5, pull ups 5

Hammer curls - 18kg x 10,10,8

Last day of PCT today, still feeling pretty good. Lifts are going up. Not sure on my weight as my scales are fvcked!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Legs day!
> 
> Squats - 105kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Leg day!

Squats - 107.5kg x 5,5,5

Leg press - 200x8, 240x10, 260x8

Hamstring curls - 65kg x 10,8,7

Switched gyms this week, felt like a change, only thing is there's nothing in the gym to do calves. I realise I could've put the bar on my shoulders and stood on tip toes but the squat rack was busy.

Started getting a headache again after leg press, the last set really made my head hurt. Still, wasn't a bad session.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Leg day!
> 
> Squats - 107.5kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Grab a dumbbell in each hand and do some raises?

I find standing on 2 plates does the trick (thumbsup)


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Haha, my hands would probably hurt before my calves. I have good grip strength but 20 reps takes a while!

Bit gutted tbh, the gym is a lot better than my last one but I want bigger calves, doesn't everyone.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Haha, my hands would probably hurt before my calves. I have good grip strength but 20 reps takes a while!
> 
> Bit gutted tbh, the gym is a lot better than my last one but I want bigger calves, doesn't everyone.


Smith machine calf raises?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Haha, my hands would probably hurt before my calves. I have good grip strength but 20 reps takes a while!
> 
> Bit gutted tbh, the gym is a lot better than my last one but I want bigger calves, doesn't everyone.


Leg press calf raises?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

What would I do without you lot??

Went to the gym with a mate today, did shoulders and chest but didn't make a note of anything. The weights are definitely heavier in the gym I went to, didn't get many reps shoulder pressing the 30kg DBs same for chest press with 35kg DBs


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day!
> 
> Deadlifts - 177.5kg x 4, 120 x 8
> 
> ...


Pull day!

Deadlift - 177.5kg x 5 PB

120kg x8

Pull ups - 8,7,4

Seated row - 80kg x 12,10,10

Hammer curls - 18kg x 12,9,8

I hate how poor my recovery is, now that I'm off the gear. My hamstrings still have DOMS from legs last Wednesday!


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

5 minute cycle post workout, deep heat and foam roller sorts out my leg doms :thumb:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day!
> 
> Deadlift - 177.5kg x 5 PB
> 
> ...


Get back on then... :devil2:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> 5 minute cycle post workout, deep heat and foam roller sorts out my leg doms :thumb:


My old gym had foam rollers there, never thought to use one mind. Will try a few minutes in the spinning bike after Wednesday's session 



onthebuild said:


> Get back on then... :devil2:


I have to wait until 11th June!!! Then I'll be riding the tren train, hoping to get my abs out for the first time in my life..


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Tom90 said:


> I have to wait until 11th June!!! Then I'll be riding the tren train, hoping to get my abs out for the first time in my life..


Why that long? I'd stop obsessing over the abs and just do a lean bulk mate if I were you


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Why that long? I'd stop obsessing over the abs and just do a lean bulk mate if I were you


Just because of work and stuff, kinda complicated.

I was thinking more along the lines of a recomp, rather than cut. I was gonna keep calories high but do lots of cardio.

It's not that I'm obsessed about abs, I'm going away in August and want to look better..


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Leg day!
> 
> Squats - 107.5kg x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Legs day

Leg press - 180x10, 220x10 260x8 280x6

Hammy curls - 65kg x 12,11,8

Leg ext - 80kg x14,10,9

Calf raises on leg press - 100kg x 20,20,20

Waited 5 minutes for the squat rack and thought fvck it, just got on with the session.

Started getting headaches again during leg press, the rest of it was decent


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Postman came today, also I have another 4 vials of fast rip on their way to me


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> View attachment 121316
> 
> 
> View attachment 121317
> ...


Nice setup mate!! Well jelly 

What's the sodium chloride for?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

It's for mixing with HCG, can't wait to get back on :lol:

Gonna run that lot for 12 weeks and then I'm 100% off gear until at least next April, because of work.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> It's for mixing with HCG, can't wait to get back on :lol:
> 
> Gonna run that lot for 12 weeks and then I'm 100% off gear until at least next April, because of work.


Shows how much I know lol really should use hcg next cycle....


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> Shows how much I know lol really should use hcg next cycle....


DRS brand HCG used to be cheap enough, they've upped it and upped the price of the water, still worth it for keeping your balls big. Apparently HCG on cycle makes recovery easier, my nuts ached in the week before PCT but been fine since


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Push day

DB shoulder - 30kgx6, 28kgx8,5

DB chest - 34kg x8,5

Dips - 12, 9,9

Cable lat raise - 7.5kg x 14,11,8

Cable over head ext - 35kg x 15,12,9

Head went after chest press, p!ssed off that I'm losing strength 

Anyway I think this journal has run it's course, I'll weigh myself in the morning and request that the thread gets closed.


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## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Push day
> 
> DB shoulder - 30kgx6, 28kgx8,5
> 
> ...


I'm seriously losing strength too man but don't get disheartened that's the most important thing, head up! 

Why not keep this journal open? Maybe change the name and make it more of a general progress off-cycle one?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

IronPhil said:


> I'm seriously losing strength too man but don't get disheartened that's the most important thing, head up!
> 
> Why not keep this journal open? Maybe change the name and make it more of a general progress off-cycle one?


I just lost my head in the gym. Now I've thought about it I'm not that bothered, in a month I'll be making serious gains!!!!! Hopefully..

I would keep it but there's not harm in making a fresh one. Plus I think the next one will just be my log for me to keep track of the next few years 

Hopefully at the end of my next journal I'll be in decent shape


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Good stuff mate. Strong deadlifting again! When you going back on?


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Good stuff mate. Strong deadlifting again! When you going back on?


Thanks mate. Think I'm in a good place right now with deadlifts, progressing well. I think it's to do with my new gym having lots of people in it and they watch me. In my last gym it was usually me or maybe another in there, so I wasn't really driven to get the reps.

11th June and I honestly can't wait!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Tom90 said:


> Pull day!
> 
> Deadlift - 177.5kg x 5 PB
> 
> ...


Pull day!

Deadlift - 180kg x 5 PB

120kg x 8

WG Pull ups - 7,6,5

Seated row - 80kg x 12,10,11

Hammer curls - 18kg x 12, 8,8

4 plate deadlifts for reps, go me!!

I feel that this is the right time to end this journal, thanks to everyone for the support along the way, you know who you are!

@Milky if you could close this thread for me, cheers mate!


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

as requested :thumbup1:


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