# Binge Days- can you get fat in a day?



## focus_and_win

on internet forums and beyond there is lots of these epic cheat days coming in, i see them more and more

question is, some people say if your eating clean all week cutting/bulking it dosent matter, one day a week youll struggle to put on any fat if you eat ****e

yes water and stuff, but actual fat am not sure?

how have you found it? do you gain much fat?

do you buy into the current craze of them or is it simply better clean 100%


----------



## Queenie

I think it's true! Yup you'll gain water but not fat. And it's also most likely good for the soul! Lol


----------



## murphy2010

No you wont get fat, at worst youl put on maybe 4-5 lbs of water weight thatl come off after a day or 2 of normal eating again

I just had 2 binge days  went from 12st13 to 13st4 lol :/ gotta get that down to 13 stone for my ADSC on monday so im not bloated and carrying excess around!


----------



## focus_and_win

yer am the same, sometimes put on like 6-8 lb of water in a day! but by the thursday am back to normal

only thing is though, cant be 100% effective as your body is clearing all that water for 4 days, so probably isnt building muscle?


----------



## skiersteve

I just have one cheat meal and not a whole day every week on Saturday, its gives you something to look forward too and makes eating chicken rice and veggies that much more bearable


----------



## focus_and_win

skiersteve said:


> I just have one cheat meal and not a whole day every week on Saturday, its gives you something to look forward too and makes eating chicken rice and veggies that much more bearable


wish i could, i love binging though! i just set myself a certain amount of hours depending on goals


----------



## Milky

As l have learned the hard way you need to cheat to give your body what it craves once a week.


----------



## davesays

So just say you consume 3000 calories per week, putting you at a weekly deficit of 3500 calories.

And then you decide to have an epic cheat day, consuming around 9000 calories in one day. This one cheat day could end up derailing your whole week of dieting as you will be in a surplus for that week and yes, you will put on fat. I prefer to have a cheat meal or a cheat 'evening', thereby not allowing myself to go completely overboard and ruin a whole weeks dieting.

Just my 2 pence, I'm sure other people will have differing views than this!


----------



## flinty90

i think the problem with cheats as i see it..

it feels great to have a free reign for an hour or half a day or a day, yes you put the water on etc and its mentally nice , however you have to think that your body is then spending days recovering

your diet continues to suffer way after the cheat day as you eat normally and cleanly again but as you have filled your body full of crap that what its using to fuel your body first the cheap easy crappy stuff..

so a cheat day is very rarely a day its more of a 4 day set back all be told... so yeah once per month isnt going to harm anything , but every week you really are only beneffiting from 3 days worth of healthy eating for the sake of 1 day cheating ...

if thats how you want to live your life then thats great , but dont think for one minute you will get good results quick if your cheating for 1 day a week, its just not going to happen as quick as if you only chested 1 day every 3 - 4 weeks etc ...


----------



## focus_and_win

flinty90 said:


> i think the problem with cheats as i see it..
> 
> it feels great to have a free reign for an hour or half a day or a day, yes you put the water on etc and its mentally nice , however you have to think that your body is then spending days recovering
> 
> your diet continues to suffer way after the cheat day as you eat normally and cleanly again but as you have filled your body full of crap that what its using to fuel your body first the cheap easy crappy stuff..
> 
> so a cheat day is very rarely a day its more of a 4 day set back all be told... so yeah once per month isnt going to harm anything , but every week you really are only beneffiting from 3 days worth of healthy eating for the sake of 1 day cheating ...
> 
> if thats how you want to live your life then thats great , but dont think for one minute you will get good results quick if your cheating for 1 day a week, its just not going to happen as quick as if you only chested 1 day every 3 - 4 weeks etc ...


that my friend is spot on! might actually change my diet around then once every 2 weeks MAX


----------



## focus_and_win

Milky said:


> As l have learned the hard way you need to cheat to give your body what it craves once a week.


explain?


----------



## 3752

No you won't put fat on it takes time to gain fat it is not an instant thing just as eating a bar of chocolate will not make you fat........

Dropping the water after a cheat does not stop the body from building muscle as they are two different things your body is able to do two things at the same time........

I have just prepped for 45 weeks for my regional, British, Worlds and Universe shows and every single week I had a window ranging from 6 to 14 hrs where I eat what ever I wanted and as much as I wanted and I was shredded on stage


----------



## flinty90

focus_and_win said:


> explain?


Milkys is a special case, as he is in massive defecit per day due to his work, and the things he cheats on at sunday arent classed as cheats normally its just stocking him up on thinhgs he should have in week,,

he hasnt been doing that even on sundays so not getting his quota of anything inside him...

but he has had a little blowout as he is suppoed to and already feels better for it !!

Sorry mily but i thought i would answer that lol


----------



## Milky

focus_and_win said:


> explain?


IME continually trying to stick to a diet has left me drained, mentally and physically, more than anything physically. This week l have gone a bit mental and for the first time in a while l feel energised and ready to rock on again.

My idea of a cheat for the last couple of months has been a sunday dinner and thats it, so hardly re charging the batteries.

You have to remember, were not going on stage in the next 12 weeks, were " hobbybuilders " not competitors so why put yourself thro hell when its a marathon not a sprint IMO.


----------



## Milky

flinty90 said:


> Milkys is a special case, as he is in massive defecit per day due to his work, and the things he cheats on at sunday arent classed as cheats normally its just stocking him up on thinhgs he should have in week,,
> 
> he hasnt been doing that even on sundays so not getting his quota of anything inside him...
> 
> but he has had a little blowout as he is suppoed to and already feels better for it !!
> 
> Sorry mily but i thought i would answer that lol


Fu*k me you were fast then !


----------



## Fat

Pscarb said:


> No you won't put fat on it takes time to gain fat it is not an instant thing just as eating a bar of chocolate will not make you fat........
> 
> Dropping the water after a cheat does not stop the body from building muscle as they are two different things your body is able to do two things at the same time........
> 
> I have just prepped for 45 weeks for my regional, British, Worlds and Universe shows and every single week I had a window ranging from 6 to 14 hrs where I eat what ever I wanted and as much as I wanted and I was shredded on stage


Are you saying mate if you have a cheat meal which makes your energy balance of the week a calorific surplus you wont gain any fat? even without peds?



flinty90 said:


> i think the problem with cheats as i see it..
> 
> it feels great to have a free reign for an hour or half a day or a day, yes you put the water on etc and its mentally nice , however you have to think that your body is then spending days recovering
> 
> your diet continues to suffer way after the cheat day as you eat normally and cleanly again but as you have filled your body full of crap that what its using to fuel your body first the cheap easy crappy stuff..
> 
> so a cheat day is very rarely a day its more of a 4 day set back all be told... so yeah once per month isnt going to harm anything , but every week you really are only beneffiting from 3 days worth of healthy eating for the sake of 1 day cheating ...
> 
> if thats how you want to live your life then thats great , but dont think for one minute you will get good results quick if your cheating for 1 day a week, its just not going to happen as quick as if you only chested 1 day every 3 - 4 weeks etc ...


Recovering what mate? Your body doesn't know the difference with what you feeds it for example brown rice or a krispy kreme will always convert to glucose and will be used as energy the only difference is the micros IMO.


----------



## Breda

Every day is a cheat day


----------



## 3752

No what I am saying if you have a scheduled cheat/refeed you will not gain fat it is when that cheat becomes a daily occurrence then a twice daily occurrence you become fat


----------



## Milky

Pscarb said:


> No you won't put fat on it takes time to gain fat it is not an instant thing just as eating a bar of chocolate will not make you fat........
> 
> Dropping the water after a cheat does not stop the body from building muscle as they are two different things your body is able to do two things at the same time........
> 
> I have just prepped for 45 weeks for my regional, British, Worlds and Universe shows and every single week I had a window ranging from 6 to 14 hrs where I eat what ever I wanted and as much as I wanted and I was shredded on stage


Fu*k me you were even faster !

:lol:

What l will add as well is l now cant wait to eat diet food again and be strict knowing that my next cheat day / re feed will be done properly having learned from my mistakes.


----------



## Fat

Pscarb said:


> No what I am saying if you have a scheduled cheat/refeed you will not gain fat it is when that cheat becomes a daily occurrence then a twice daily occurrence you become fat


I agree but these days the traditional cheat isn't to replenish glycogen but just to binge which has no benefits apart from physiologically lol.


----------



## Fullhouse

You wound get fat but you can look bloated and hold water for a timw making you look fat


----------



## 3752

Fat said:


> Are you saying mate if you have a cheat meal which makes your energy balance of the week a calorific surplus you wont gain any fat? even without peds?


yes this is exactly what I am saying



Fat said:


> Recovering what mate? Your body doesn't know the difference with what you feeds it for example brown rice or a krispy kreme will always convert to glucose and will be used as energy the only difference is the micros IMO.


disagree, if this was the case why does the body treat some saturated fats differently to others? Like what is in MCT oil? Opposed to corn oil? Yet they are all just fats? Why does the body react differently to haribo opposed to sweet spud? (Insulin release etc) or why does it react differently to say a protein source from eggs opposed to soy? It does deal with different foods differently brown rice is mainly just carbs yet Krispy Kreme is carbs and trans fats E numbers etc so it will deal with it differently



Fat said:


> I agree but these days the traditional cheat isn't to replenish glycogen but just to binge which has no benefits apart from physiologically lol.


really so where is the line you cross from glycogen replenishing and physiologically........does it become non beneficial after 2 hours, 5hours, 12hours?


----------



## 3752

flinty90 said:


> i think the problem with cheats as i see it..
> 
> it feels great to have a free reign for an hour or half a day or a day, yes you put the water on etc and its mentally nice , however you have to think that your body is then spending days recovering
> 
> your diet continues to suffer way after the cheat day as you eat normally and cleanly again but as you have filled your body full of crap that what its using to fuel your body first the cheap easy crappy stuff..
> 
> so a cheat day is very rarely a day its more of a 4 day set back all be told... so yeah once per month isnt going to harm anything , but every week you really are only beneffiting from 3 days worth of healthy eating for the sake of 1 day cheating ...
> 
> if thats how you want to live your life then thats great , but dont think for one minute you will get good results quick if your cheating for 1 day a week, its just not going to happen as quick as if you only chested 1 day every 3 - 4 weeks etc ...


disagree I was cheating for 10-12 hrs each week when I prepped and it certainly benefitted me, last year I had the whole day off on a Sunday and certainly benefitted to gain muscle, can you explain how you work out doing cardio and training and going back on diet has no effect for 4 days after? So you only benefit from 3 days diet?


----------



## Little_Jay

i guess you would neva no unless you eat both ways an done exacty smae thing over a set time

i peronally feel terrible aftet i eat ****e so normally keep it to once every 2 3 weeks


----------



## Barman

i ate not to bad yesterday had a bit of chocolate and chrips went up 3pound in a day lol yeh not a big deal mate wont get fat anyway being lean is a pain ha


----------



## Inapsine

I had a bargain bucket today and 3 twirls it was ****in brilliant


----------



## murphy2010

i just eat less the day after and try to make sure i have minimal carbs to hopefully shed off alot of water


----------



## Ricky12345

Last week I had a day on the beer and junk food couldent believe what I saw the next day I no it was water etc but it was unreal


----------



## ditz

@Pscarb

That window of time you mention you could have anything you wanted and as much as you want..

I read that quite often with the more serious bb'ers journals and etc

Are you really talking WHATEVER you want, or is there still some restraint there?

Surely spending 14 hours ploughing through pizza cookies and ice cream must have some effect?


----------



## 3752

ditz said:


> @Pscarb
> 
> That window of time you mention you could have anything you wanted and as much as you want..
> 
> I read that quite often with the more serious bb'ers journals and etc
> 
> Are you really talking WHATEVER you want, or is there still some restraint there?
> 
> Surely spending 14 hours ploughing through pizza cookies and ice cream must have some effect?


it does have an effect it raises my metabolism and lepton levels makes me full as a house and sane.......

And yes you can have what ever you want the majority came from low ish fat treats only because fat slows down carb uptake but I still eat what I wanted for the amount of time, many who comment about how negative it is have never done it in the same way they eat a sort of diet through the week then eat what ever they want for the weekend and don't get the same effect but they won't because it is not the same.....

I weigh everything I eat so I know exactly what each meal gives me no guessing no approximates nothing left to chance then one day a week in the off season I eat what I want when I want............stuffing your face until your sick is just greed I eat until I am satisfied then I stop and wait until I am hungry again.....


----------



## flinty90

Pscarb said:


> disagree I was cheating for 10-12 hrs each week when I prepped and it certainly benefitted me, last year I had the whole day off on a Sunday and certainly benefitted to gain muscle, can you explain how you work out doing cardio and training and going back on diet has no effect for 4 days after? So you only benefit from 3 days diet?


not really its just how things had been explained to me mate... put sh1t in you get sh1t out.. Big bears way worked for me but he never advocates cheat days in his style of regime ...

so i may me wrong with my statement but its how i understood it and its what i stuck too tbh mate ...


----------



## iamyou

Nothing wrong with low fat high carb and prot binges (refeeds). I never seem to gain any fat from these. Although uncontrolled binges can set you back a few weeks easily especially when you're cutting. I mostly go by my weekly cals anyway.

I bet AAS bend the rules a little, so you can get away crazy binges.


----------



## ditz

Pscarb said:


> it does have an effect it raises my metabolism and lepton levels makes me full as a house and sane.......
> 
> And yes you can have what ever you want the majority came from low ish fat treats only because fat slows down carb uptake but I still eat what I wanted for the amount of time, many who comment about how negative it is have never done it in the same way they eat a sort of diet through the week then eat what ever they want for the weekend and don't get the same effect but they won't because it is not the same.....
> 
> I weigh everything I eat so I know exactly what each meal gives me no guessing no approximates nothing left to chance then one day a week in the off season I eat what I want when I want............stuffing your face until your sick is just greed I eat until I am satisfied then I stop and wait until I am hungry again.....


That's exactly what I was asking mate, much appreciated.


----------



## 3752

flinty90 said:


> not really its just how things had been explained to me mate... put sh1t in you get sh1t out.. Big bears way worked for me but he never advocates cheat days in his style of regime ...
> 
> so i may me wrong with my statement but its how i understood it and its what i stuck too tbh mate ...


well it is wrong mate as cheat days/ meals work and work very well for many guys and girls who compete my recent showings prove this BUT it is not the only way to diet and get into condition Daves system works for you and that is all that matters to be fair but he is wrong in the way he has explained this to you. The current Miss Universe in trained figure Linda Garside preps the same way as I do (same coach) in fact she has had to have longer cheats as her body deals with it all differently to mine (faster metabolism etc) and I think her physique proves that the term "sh1t in, sh1t out" is very wrong....

Dave coaches as he is coached by Alvin and that is with plain basic foods and no cheats this works for Alvin very very well but that is not to say it will work for everyone.


----------



## Mez

I had 2 jammy dodgers this morning and the sugar killed on my teeth, and it's even worse if I even look at a piece of chocolate !

So just eat clean all the time, it's easy when you've got bad teeth.


----------



## Guest

I had a mars bar earlier, my god it was nice.

I can't cheat like you guys, not because of the diet, because of the damn sugar content. More sugar = more slin = fat  Being diabetic is a pain. My cheat day would be a lot more adventurous otherwise ! lol


----------



## leeds_01

shame people 'crave' these cheat days and not simply cheat meals

i doubt u'll get fatter in one day - weight will all be water probably


----------



## Milky

leeds_01 said:


> shame people 'crave' these cheat days and not simply cheat meals
> 
> i doubt u'll get fatter in one day - weight will all be water probably


Why is it a shame when as said on this thread it actaully does you good mate ?


----------



## leeds_01

Milky said:


> Why is it a shame when as said on this thread it actaully does you good mate ?


here he is milky coming straight back lol

i think its a shame people dont have the discipline to stick to a specific diet routine and constantly crave full cheat days

i enjoy cheat meals every so often but never an entire day


----------



## Milky

leeds_01 said:


> here he is milky coming straight back lol
> 
> i think its a shame people dont have the discipline to stick to a specific diet routine and constantly crave full cheat days
> 
> i enjoy cheat meals every so often but never an entire day


But as Pscarb has already stated he includes it in his prepping because he BENEFITS from it.


----------



## leeds_01

Milky said:


> But as Pscarb has already stated he includes it in his prepping because he BENEFITS from it.


maybe he does and maybe he benefits greatly

i dont like guys using the whole cheat day think to binge on sh1t frequently - and u do know what i mean tho


----------



## leeds_01

Milky said:


> But as Pscarb has already stated he includes it in his prepping because he BENEFITS from it.


and in fact with his knowledge and great experience, given the state his body will be in at the time during his prepping - no doubt he does benefit from it - he knows full well what to do - how to tweak his body - how it responds etc

i dont like the whole cheat day things for normal guys 15% odd to smash down curries frequently and think its ok


----------



## Paul R

I stick to my low fat diet. I'm having my first cheat day in about 2 months. Had 4 x eggs , shake and oats for brekkie, then a kfc, some doughnuts. Having a curry in a bit and some pankakes later.

Got some other treats, banoffee pie, cakes and chocolate! All the stuff I missed out on over the last 2 months..

Ill report tomorrow if its made me fat(er)!!

That will do me for 2 more months, back to the chicken veg and rice tomorrow!!

Paul


----------



## Milky

leeds_01 said:


> and in fact with his knowledge and great experience, given the state his body will be in at the time during his prepping - no doubt he does benefit from it - he knows full well what to do - how to tweak his body - how it responds etc
> 
> i dont like the whole cheat day things for normal guys 15% odd to smash down curries frequently and think its ok


Define freqeuntly please mate.


----------



## leeds_01

Milky said:


> Define freqeuntly please mate.


2 out of 7 days


----------



## Milky

leeds_01 said:


> 2 out of 7 days


fair enough then mate....

I think the best one Paul give me is 6 hours.


----------



## greekgod

i agree with Pscarb abt cheat 'windows' are important, espec in the long term of prep, i call it a window bcos altho it might be late sat nite , then running into sunday for a set time frame, depends where u are in therms of yr prep, ive been doing it the past 3 seasons and i use certain foods only that dont have alot of fats so i get major room for my simple junk carbs... i wont say more on what or why as this is a well known prep experts bread and butter...


----------



## Fatstuff

Guess what? more than one way 2 skin a cat, no one way is right imo.


----------



## flinty90

Fatstuff said:


> Guess what? more than one way 2 skin a cat, no one way is right imo.


nope your right bro !!!

there is no right and wrong , just right for you !!!


----------



## L11

davesays said:


> So just say you consume 3000 calories per week, putting you at a weekly deficit of 3500 calories.
> 
> And then you decide to have an epic cheat day, consuming around 9000 calories in one day. This one cheat day could end up derailing your whole week of dieting as you will be in a surplus for that week and yes, you will put on fat. I prefer to have a cheat meal or a cheat 'evening', thereby not allowing myself to go completely overboard and ruin a whole weeks dieting.
> 
> Just my 2 pence, I'm sure other people will have differing views than this!


Or you could just not have 9000 calories in a day? You could just have 5000? Still putting you at a deficit of 2000 a week according to your calculation.

9000 calories is pretty difficult in a binge, I think I just about managed that once in my life but that was only because I drank a litre of disaronno (3600 calories).. If it was just food that would be near impossible for someone that is used to 3000


----------



## 3752

leeds_01 said:


> here he is milky coming straight back lol
> 
> i think its a shame people dont have the discipline to stick to a specific diet routine and constantly crave full cheat days
> 
> i enjoy cheat meals every so often but never an entire day


and that suits you but it may not suit others......how do you know they dont stick to to a specific diet? many do and that is why they crave cheat days....



leeds_01 said:


> and in fact with his knowledge and great experience, given the state his body will be in at the time during his prepping - no doubt he does benefit from it - he knows full well what to do - how to tweak his body - how it responds etc
> 
> i dont like the whole cheat day things for normal guys 15% odd to smash down curries frequently and think its ok


But how many of these guys actually understand the method? probably very few, not sure why it bothers you so much leave them to it let them look big in jumpers and fat on the beach......

even in 2011 when i took the full year off i relaxed all day on a sunday and i was 240lbs but i still benefitted from it, i did not eat as much because i was eating plenty in the week but i still craved junk food and it certainly did its job, and you can be certain i stick to a strict diet routine no matter if i am prepping for a show or not 

i am off season now i weigh 212lbs that is 12lbs more than i did on the day of the NABBA Universe a month ago i have all day sunday off diet, i eat what i want when i want be this a lot or a little but i sort my cravings out in that one day and i go to bed full......i am back on diet the next morning and within 3 days i am back to baseline then my diet holds my weight (i have been 212lbs for the last 3 weeks)



flinty90 said:


> nope your right bro !!!
> 
> there is no right and wrong , just right for you !!!


exactly BUT then you must ask yourself have you tried other ways to skin that cat? if not then there is no way on earth you can say the way you do it is the best for you (not aimed at you flinty just in general) i have done non cheat diets, low fat low carb diets i have done them all and i now know 2 things about my body....

Low fat dieting does not give me the results and badly effects my skin, hair etc......even blood lipids

Dieting without a cheat Meal/Window or day (i prefer the window) does not give me the condition i need when on stage

i have learnt that this applies to the majority of the people i work with, the reason it does not work for some is because they are not strict enough in the week...


----------



## Little_Jay

i dont think the cheat window is needed in a bulk personally, surely if your cals are around say 3k 4k what benifit r cheats doing to motab?


----------



## davesays

L11 said:


> Or you could just not have 9000 calories in a day? You could just have 5000? Still putting you at a deficit of 2000 a week according to your calculation.
> 
> 9000 calories is pretty difficult in a binge, I think I just about managed that once in my life but that was only because I drank a litre of disaronno (3600 calories).. If it was just food that would be near impossible for someone that is used to 3000


Impossible? One KFC meal has over 1000 kcals, and I have had two of these before for one meal on a cheat day. I have lost my head so bad at times I am just stuffing my face constantly. I will wake up and eat a full packet of chocolate digestives with my coffee, each of those bad boys packing nearly 100 calories each. So a packet of these can easily be 2000 calories. Then I will throw a load of bacon on the grill and fire that into a bagel and wolf it down. That can come to 1000+ calories itself. And that's just the beginning. They add up very easy if you go off the rails!

I will not be doing this on my next cut however lol, I find when I do this it takes me days or even weeks to recover.


----------



## ditz

Little_Jay said:


> i dont think the cheat window is needed in a bulk personally, surely if your cals are around say 3k 4k what benifit r cheats doing to motab?


I must admit, since starting my bulk diet it kind of feels like an ideal cheat day for me would be eating less food :lol:


----------



## Little_Jay

mad how many of us have binge eating disorders!


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> i dont think the cheat window is needed in a bulk personally, surely if your cals are around say 3k 4k what benifit r cheats doing to motab?


the benefit is that you remain strict all week (6 days) thus growing and making the most of your nutritional diet then have a few things what you want to have on a Saturday or Sunday this helps even on a bulk, can i ask when you bulk do you weigh all your food?



ditz said:


> I must admit, since starting my bulk diet it kind of feels like an ideal cheat day for me would be eating less food :lol:


but this is the point you eat what you want , how much you want when you want there is no timing there is no weighing.....if it is chicken and rice with tom ketch so be it but it just as well be chocolate.

guys not everyone binges on a cheat day i think you are confusing have a cheat where you have a few treats to a full out binge where you eat until you are or very near to being sick.......there is a big difference


----------



## kingdale

Little_Jay said:


> mad how many of us have binge eating disorders!


I bet to the non training people we do all seem like we have eating disorders


----------



## flinty90

Pscarb said:


> and that suits you but it may not suit others......how do you know they dont stick to to a specific diet? many do and that is why they crave cheat days....
> 
> But how many of these guys actually understand the method? probably very few, not sure why it bothers you so much leave them to it let them look big in jumpers and fat on the beach......
> 
> even in 2011 when i took the full year off i relaxed all day on a sunday and i was 240lbs but i still benefitted from it, i did not eat as much because i was eating plenty in the week but i still craved junk food and it certainly did its job, and you can be certain i stick to a strict diet routine no matter if i am prepping for a show or not
> 
> i am off season now i weigh 212lbs that is 12lbs more than i did on the day of the NABBA Universe a month ago i have all day sunday off diet, i eat what i want when i want be this a lot or a little but i sort my cravings out in that one day and i go to bed full......i am back on diet the next morning and within 3 days i am back to baseline then my diet holds my weight (i have been 212lbs for the last 3 weeks)
> 
> *exactly BUT then you must ask yourself have you tried other ways to skin that cat?* if not then there is no way on earth you can say the way you do it is the best for you (not aimed at you flinty just in general) i have done non cheat diets, low fat low carb diets i have done them all and i now know 2 things about my body....
> 
> Low fat dieting does not give me the results and badly effects my skin, hair etc......even blood lipids
> 
> Dieting without a cheat Meal/Window or day (i prefer the window) does not give me the condition i need when on stage
> 
> i have learnt that this applies to the majority of the people i work with, the reason it does not work for some is because they are not strict enough in the week...


No mate i have only been with 1 mentor for 12 week i have done everything i was told and i got results , now i am happy with that , but i will never discount the fact that other stuff could work easier for me and better for me mate, its not my style.. all i know is i have done a perfect 12 week recomp using Daves regime...

On that basis i will work with him again to get more fat off using another method or whatever.. i have always written in my journal and milkys how its great to see totally different systems working for different people...

I would love to try other things in future , i would love to work with you scarbs in the future , i am very very short on the real amount of time i have been having a go at this game, nothing i read is ever a missed chance at learning something new,,,

All i look forward to in future is increasing my results and bettering my body regardless of who i work with etc,, they are the guys i pay as i expect them to know more than i do ...

i will never know it all, and i will never be able to work with everyone to see the different styles and results but deffo would work with Bigbear again and deffo with you in future at some point ...

great bit of input into this journal too !!!


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> the benefit is that you remain strict all week (6 days) thus growing and making the most of your nutritional diet then have a few things what you want to have on a Saturday or Sunday this helps even on a bulk, can i ask when you bulk do you weigh all your food?
> 
> but this is the point you eat what you want , how much you want when you want there is no timing there is no weighing.....if it is chicken and rice with tom ketch so be it but it just as well be chocolate.
> 
> guys not everyone binges on a cheat day i think you are confusing have a cheat where you have a few treats to a full out binge where you eat until you are or very near to being sick.......there is a big difference


yer mate weigh every single day got a it of ocd! so what am sayin is, if u dont have the cheat day, wudnt results be even better, ove a year its 52 days, nearly 2 months of 'cheating'


----------



## flinty90

Little_Jay said:


> yer mate weigh every single day got a it of ocd! so what am sayin is, if u dont have the cheat day, wudnt results be even better, ove a year its 52 days, nearly 2 months of 'cheating'


i think thats Scarbs point bro that no it wouldnt make results any better as he has tried and tested the results for himself ( i think thats correct) and like he is doing with milky and actually wanting milky to have his window of opportunity for his gains ... pretty cool stuff really its interesting as fcuk to me


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> yer mate weigh every single day got a it of ocd! so what am sayin is, if u dont have the cheat day, wudnt results be even better, ove a year its 52 days, nearly 2 months of 'cheating'


Not you weighing you but you weighing your food? Everything you eat?

No mate they would not I can say this because I have done just that, do some research into lepton levels and the metabolism and you will see it is not just Bro science.........

But like I say many are thinking the wrong thing about cheats they believe it is an all out binge and it is not..............I have never been as big or as conditioned in both the off season and onstage as I have been since I started working with someone who had me using a weekly window for cheats.........


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> Not you weighing you but you weighing your food? Everything you eat?
> 
> No mate they would not I can say this because I have done just that, do some research into lepton levels and the metabolism and you will see it is not just Bro science.........
> 
> But like I say many are thinking the wrong thing about cheats they believe it is an all out binge and it is not..............I have never been as big or as conditioned in both the off season and onstage as I have been since I started working with someone who had me using a weekly window for cheats.........


fair enough mate, that works and thats that! an yes i weigh out every meal night before!

as flinty says, its all very instresting stuff


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> fair enough mate, that works and thats that! *an yes i weigh out every meal night before*!
> 
> as flinty says, its all very instresting stuff


that is good to hear mate when you do this you can be certain that the changes you make will be noticed as you are not guessing.........


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> Not you weighing you but you weighing your food? Everything you eat?
> 
> No mate they would not I can say this because I have done just that, do some research into lepton levels and the metabolism and you will see it is not just Bro science.........
> 
> But like I say many are thinking the wrong thing about cheats they believe it is an all out binge and it is not..............I have never been as big or as conditioned in both the off season and onstage as I have been since I started working with someone who had me using a weekly window for cheats.........


also mate if your allowing for a free reign one day, do your other 6 days compensete? or do you still push cals high in offseason? are you a beilevein huge cals?


----------



## flinty90

Little_Jay said:


> also mate if your allowing for a free reign one day, do your other 6 days compensete? or do you still push cals high in offseason? are you a beilevein huge cals?


ME personally i think Calories are like gear, people just need to keep it at a level to actually grow rather than forcefeeding surplus after surplus in day in day out... seems like its the same with gear, people smash loads in and expect better results when really what you need is healthier and better for results and your body ??


----------



## Little_Jay

flinty90 said:


> ME personally i think Calories are like gear, people just need to keep it at a level to actually grow rather than forcefeeding surplus after surplus in day in day out... seems like its the same with gear, people smash loads in and expect better results when really what you need is healthier and better for results and your body ??


you could be right mate, some people say you can force growth, others dont,

MOST people ive seen who are huge though got fat at one point across the boards, big bear/ib/con/jp


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> also mate if your allowing for a free reign one day, do your other 6 days compensete? or do you still push cals high in offseason? are you a beilevein huge cals?


When I am in the off season I don't tend to eat that much on a Sunday I get a few things like chocolate (yes a chocoholic) and I love treacle pastries.......but I really just relax eat with the family, pick at sweets on the sofa with my kids that sort of thing.....

My calories in the week maintain my base weight as I have been 212lbs for the last 3 weeks, I use a strategy to push the calories up by small amounts once my weight has held for 2-3 weeks so I will increase them tomorrow for Monday but they will only be by a few hundred calories, I believe in pushing it probably most I will consume in a week day is 4-4.5k per day which for someone of my size is not a lot...........I coach @CJ and he will vouch that the Sunday relax is not a binge day.....


----------



## flinty90

Little_Jay said:


> you could be right mate, some people say you can force growth, others dont,
> 
> MOST people ive seen who are huge though got fat at one point across the boards, big bear/ib/con/jp


have you seen Jstarrs new plan ??? this journal just need to read first post .. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/203700-supersize-me-bodybuilding-style.html

@Pscarb what do you think to that personal approach would you advocate something like that or would you say the values in his junk food would be too up and down to give accurate measure etc ??

its not a negative towards jstarr either its his approach and he is obviously hoping to gain good mass from it. just wondered obviously as its relevent to this thread also ??


----------



## justin case

a big old pizza and chips on Saturday and a nice roast dinner on the Sunday isn't going to affect your overall diet....whats the point of training if you are going to spend the best years of your life being miserable?


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> When I am in the off season I don't tend to eat that much on a Sunday I get a few things like chocolate (yes a chocoholic) and I love treacle pastries.......but I really just relax eat with the family, pick at sweets on the sofa with my kids that sort of thing.....
> 
> My calories in the week maintain my base weight as I have been 212lbs for the last 3 weeks, I use a strategy to push the calories up by small amounts once my weight has held for 2-3 weeks so I will increase them tomorrow for Monday but they will only be by a few hundred calories, I believe in pushing it probably most I will consume in a week day is 4-4.5k per day which for someone of my size is not a lot...........I coach @CJ and he will vouch that the Sunday relax is not a binge day.....


yer as you say relax/binge toatlly diff things!


----------



## 3752

flinty90 said:


> have you seen Jstarrs new plan ??? this journal just need to read first post .. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/203700-supersize-me-bodybuilding-style.html
> 
> @Pscarb what do you think to that personal approach would you advocate something like that or would you say the values in his junk food would be too up and down to give accurate measure etc ??
> 
> its not a negative towards jstarr either its his approach and he is obviously hoping to gain good mass from it. just wondered obviously as its relevent to this thread also ??


Jay says it all in that post he has a very fast metabolism this approach just would not work for me (yes I have tried it) but it seems to work for Jay and that is the key........I do think in time he will need to add more clean food to develop mature muscle but that might be a far way down the road.......


----------



## Little_Jay

justin case said:


> a big old pizza and chips on Saturday and a nice roast dinner on the Sunday isn't going to affect your overall diet....whats the point of training if you are going to spend the best years of your life being miserable?


eating junk food dosent make everyone happy you know?


----------



## Milky

Little_Jay said:


> yer as you say relax/binge toatlly diff things!


Yeah l think the title of the thread was maybe an instigator of some mis understanding.


----------



## Little_Jay

Milky said:


> Yeah l think the title of the thread was maybe an instigator of some mis understanding.


yep! but its made for a excellent discussion!


----------



## Milky

flinty90 said:


> have you seen Jstarrs new plan ??? this journal just need to read first post .. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/203700-supersize-me-bodybuilding-style.html
> 
> @Pscarb what do you think to that personal approach would you advocate something like that or would you say the values in his junk food would be too up and down to give accurate measure etc ??
> 
> its not a negative towards jstarr either its his approach and he is obviously hoping to gain good mass from it. just wondered obviously as its relevent to this thread also ??


I know Jay, and basically he is a ku*t and he gets away with murder with his diet and training the jammy tw*t !

IMO he must have great genetics or be a FANTASTIC liar but knowing him, he's not a liar.


----------



## Milky

Little_Jay said:


> yep! but its made for a excellent discussion!


Oh mate, been a cracking thread.


----------



## flinty90

the wierd thing is i dont even think if you could eat all the crap you wanted day in day out you would actually enjoy that either lol... For me it seems to be as soon as something is forbidden or out of bounds thats when i crave it..

but my attitude in life has always been if someone tells me no i have to make that a yes and prove them different .. maybe that is a good thing maybe thats a big flaw i have to try and squash !!!


----------



## 3752

justin case said:


> a big old pizza and chips on Saturday and a nice roast dinner on the Sunday isn't going to affect your overall diet....whats the point of training if you are going to spend the best years of your life being miserable?


I am happy, I prefer structure to my diet through the week and have a relaxing day on Sunday, your goals are obviously different but don't make the dumb mistake just because others want different things from BB they are unhappy.......



Little_Jay said:


> yep! but its made for a excellent discussion!


yes mate and the type of thread I like to get involved in, 6 pages in and no idiot trying to kick off 

On that note time for my final meal today of chicken and whole eggs, now this time next week I will be out on the lash having a great time


----------



## Milky

flinty90 said:


> the wierd thing is i dont even think if you could eat all the crap you wanted day in day out you would actually enjoy that either lol... For me it seems to be as soon as something is forbidden or out of bounds thats when i crave it..
> 
> but my attitude in life has always been if someone tells me no i have to make that a yes and prove them different .. maybe that is a good thing maybe thats a big flaw i have to try and squash !!!


For a long time l have avoided bread like its the devils food, start dieting all l want is butties and toast !


----------



## justin case

Little_Jay said:


> eating junk food dosent make everyone happy you know?


food is food, your body will break it down and use it in the most appropriate way it can.....how can you say a roast dinner is junk?....it contains everything the body needs to maintain its self.


----------



## Milky

justin case said:


> food is food, your body will break it down and use it in the most appropriate way it can.....how can you say a roast dinner is junk?....it contains everything the body needs to maintain its self.


Mate l know some big strong blokes who have never trained but grafted hard for yrs on "proper" dinners etc, so they are bang on.


----------



## 3752

flinty90 said:


> the wierd thing is i dont even think if you could eat all the crap you wanted day in day out you would actually enjoy that either lol... For me it seems to be as soon as something is forbidden or out of bounds thats when i crave it..
> 
> but my attitude in life has always been if someone tells me no i have to make that a yes and prove them different .. maybe that is a good thing maybe thats a big flaw i have to try and squash !!!


Spot on mate, there is stuff I craved when prepping but do not want it now.........my wife says I have the strongest will power of anyone she has ever known........but I have to have because I have been through those years where I did eat the crap, treats etc.....when I wanted and I did not progress, I controll the majority of the week now and well my physique screams how it is working well for me......


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> Spot on mate, there is stuff I craved when prepping but do not want it now.........my wife says I have the strongest will power of anyone she has ever known........but I have to have because I have been through those years where I did eat the crap, treats etc.....when I wanted and I did not progress, I controll the majority of the week now and well my physique screams how it is working well for me......


something im good at paul is sticking to diet mon-fri saturday comes and its a whole diff ball game, but last 6months or so ive dialled in the weekends and kept them clean mostly! apart from the odd few, as you say huge diff to physique, and thats only on my tiny level

strange how it must be mental, as mon-fri i dont even think about it, i think weekend your bored and feel like you "deserve it"


----------



## kingdale

flinty90 said:


> the wierd thing is i dont even think if you could eat all the crap you wanted day in day out you would actually enjoy that either lol... !


True the fact that you dont eat it all week makes you enjoy it so much more than when its the normal thing.


----------



## kingdale

Pscarb said:


> Spot on mate, there is stuff I craved when prepping but do not want it now.........my wife says I have the strongest will power of anyone she has ever known........but I have to have because I have been through those years where I did eat the crap, treats etc.....when I wanted and I did not progress, I controll the majority of the week now and well my physique screams how it is working well for me......


Do you ever drink alcohol? Just being nosy.


----------



## Little_Jay

kingdale said:


> Do you ever drink alcohol? Just being nosy.


to quote paul in this thread

"now this time next week I will be out on the lash having a great time"


----------



## zack amin

somebody mention sunday roast? chicken, gravy, spuds,yorkshire puds, boiled veggies, mash potatoe, peas

i got a semi


----------



## 3752

kingdale said:


> Do you ever drink alcohol? Just being nosy.


When prepping I never drink or go out i prefer to stay in, but when I am not prepping I will go out for drinks with my wife and friends once every 6-8 weeks maybe



zack amin said:


> somebody mention sunday roast? chicken, gravy, spuds,yorkshire puds, boiled veggies, mash potatoe, peas
> 
> i got a semi


Maybe you need a GF


----------



## Guest

I always thought the cheat day or cheat meal whatever was mainly the physcological release of being on such a strict diet in the 1st place. Takes dedication and a truck load of will power to stick to perfectly planned meals, calorie intakes, macros blah blah blah.

So having something that you fancy, that isn't on the everyday menu allows the mind to recharge all the will power ready to be strict again.


----------



## Fatstuff

Interesting thread, in regards the sunday roast, its fresh, unprocessed and healthy but i do find it comes over 1000cals quite easily in one meal so in a way its a cheat meal, albeit a good one!


----------



## 3752

justin case said:


> food is food, your body will break it down and use it in the most appropriate way it can.....how can you say a roast dinner is junk?....it contains everything the body needs to maintain its self.


Your comment was not just a roast dinner though was it


----------



## Fatboy80

flinty90 said:


> i think the problem with cheats as i see it..
> 
> it feels great to have a free reign for an hour or half a day or a day, yes you put the water on etc and its mentally nice , however you have to think that your body is then spending days recovering
> 
> your diet continues to suffer way after the cheat day as you eat normally and cleanly again but as you have filled your body full of crap that what its using to fuel your body first the cheap easy crappy stuff..
> 
> so a cheat day is very rarely a day its more of a 4 day set back all be told... so yeah once per month isnt going to harm anything , but every week you really are only beneffiting from 3 days worth of healthy eating for the sake of 1 day cheating ...
> 
> if thats how you want to live your life then thats great , but dont think for one minute you will get good results quick if your cheating for 1 day a week, its just not going to happen as quick as if you only chested 1 day every 3 - 4 weeks etc ...


I know what you mean with this flinty. I said something very similar yesterday to @dutch_scott . I also think it varies massively on the amount of muscle mass you carry, and like others said, whether you're assisted or not.

Good post.


----------



## 3752

Fatstuff said:


> Interesting thread, in regards the sunday roast, its fresh, unprocessed and healthy but i do find it comes over 1000cals quite easily in one meal so in a way its a cheat meal, albeit a good one!


This is an excellent point mate, and exactly what I have been trying to get across a cheat could be a damn good roast dinner which as you say when you add it all together can equal 1000cals which is a cheat, it is not junk granted but not all cheats are junk foods they are eating much more than you would in the week some will benefit from this others will need more...


----------



## saxondale

you should start a list of what`s good cheat and what`s bad.

I always have chip shop fish and chips when I need picking up.


----------



## greekgod

1STLY i wanna say its a great thread withn alot of imput from a broad spectrum of different people with different views on the binge/ cheat day.

i think alot of members actually partaking in this discussion have not actually dieted down with a TARGET date in mind, ie a up and coming comp, knowing u need the cheat window to help u maintain the goal u have to stand on stage, ripped and full..

As Milky said earlier in this post, he's not sprinting but in a marathon, and believe me in terms of willpower its harder sticking to that boring repeative diet without a comp day in the horizon especially without a cheat window of some sort...

so i will stick to my weekly cheat window and the difference is im the fully loaded smiling guy on stage, who actually enjoyed my prep....


----------



## 3752

saxondale said:


> you should start a list of what`s good cheat and what`s bad.
> 
> I always have chip shop fish and chips when I need picking up.


there is no list that will apply to all, if fish and chips do it for you so it picks you up and helps you stick to a strict weekly diet then it's good


----------



## reza85

Pscarb said:


> there is no list that will apply to all, if fish and chips do it for you so it picks you up and helps you stick to a strict weekly diet then it's good


I think you made good point regarding cheat days being used to up leptin levels and glycogen re-compensation as far my 2 cents go I would rathere have a high carb low fat and low protein days.

Paul would u also recommend keeping protein low on cheat days ?


----------



## Fatstuff

Massive amount of info on leptin on lyle McDonald's website if anyone's interested.


----------



## Tom90

Last night I had half a bucket of KFC chicken, half an XL pizza and a bar of galaxy chocolate. Feeling great this morning


----------



## Milky

A good friend of mine, a gym owner for 30 yrs and 3 times Mr Britain winner once said to me.......

" the best diet in the world is the one you can stick too "

Says it all for me tbh. Its not going to do you any good being fed up, miserable and hungry because you wont last long dieting like that so if a re feed / cheat day is needed to acheive that ( regardless of the science behind it ) then so be it.

@greekgod nailed it with his post IMO.


----------



## reza85

Milky said:


> A good friend of mine, a gym owner for 30 yrs and 3 times Mr Britain winner once said to me.......
> 
> " the best diet in the world is the one you can stick too "
> 
> Says it all for me tbh. Its not going to do you any good being fed up, miserable and hungry because you wont last long dieting like that so if a re feed / cheat day is needed to acheive that ( regardless of the science behind it ) then so be it.
> 
> @greekgod nailed it with his post IMO.


Agreed.... but there is always a better way off doing things then the way you are doing it no matter who you are and at what stage you are.

Were you at with your body fat now days milky ?

And whats you ideal goal ?


----------



## Little_Jay

Milky said:


> A good friend of mine, a gym owner for 30 yrs and 3 times Mr Britain winner once said to me.......
> 
> " the best diet in the world is the one you can stick too "
> 
> Says it all for me tbh. Its not going to do you any good being fed up, miserable and hungry because you wont last long dieting like that so if a re feed / cheat day is needed to acheive that ( regardless of the science behind it ) then so be it.
> 
> @greekgod nailed it with his post IMO.


agree mate how i see it, say it takes u 10 weeks of hundred percent clean to reach ur goal but thats no cheats at all, the vast majority will drop out after 3 4 weeks am sure

now allow your self 14 15 weeks but with a day a week doing what u want, people will probably stick to it

as u say mate, its a marathon no point in sprinting and burn out


----------



## Milky

reza85 said:


> Agreed.... but there is always a better way off doing things then the way you are doing it no matter who you are and at what stage you are.
> 
> Were you at with your body fat now days milky ?
> 
> And whats you ideal goal ?


No mate, your wrong, not a BETTER way but maybe a different way.

BF. l genuinely have no idea as the lad who does it usually doesnt work at my gym anymore, but gutted about that, and goal is 16 ish stone, lean with visible abs.

You also have to remember l am a hobby builder, its not my job its a pastime for me, l want to look good but l wont kill myself doing it, l alsoo have 36 weeks to nail it so why should l worry about BF at this stage.


----------



## reza85

Milky said:


> No mate, your wrong, not a BETTER way but maybe a different way.
> 
> BF. l genuinely have no idea as the lad who does it usually doesnt work at my gym anymore, but gutted about that, and goal is 16 ish stone, lean with visible abs.
> 
> You also have to remember l am a hobby builder, its not my job its a pastime for me, l want to look good but l wont kill myself doing it, l alsoo have 36 weeks to nail it so why should l worry about BF at this stage.


Looking good in avi any way mate and i think that is all it matters !


----------



## Milky

reza85 said:


> Looking good in avi any way mate and i think that is all it matters !


IMO l look tiny now and my lifts are also IMO not what they were, but bear in mind l have been off gear for 3 months now apart from peps which altho effective do not give the results gear does.

Like l say tho its 36 weeks to my target so lots and lots of tweaking time.


----------



## reza85

Milky said:


> IMO l look tiny now and my lifts are also IMO not what they were, but bear in mind l have been off gear for 3 months now apart from peps which altho effective do not give the results gear does.
> 
> Like l say tho its 36 weeks to my target so lots and lots of tweaking time.


Any particular reason your off the gear mate ?


----------



## Milky

reza85 said:


> Any particular reason your off the gear mate ?


Paul has a plan for me mate which included giving me a break from gear use as to benefit from a big rebound.

So basically l am doing as l am told :thumbup1:


----------



## Little_Jay

Milky said:


> Paul has a plan for me mate which included giving me a break from gear use as to benefit from a big rebound.
> 
> So basically l am doing as l am told :thumbup1:


nt to mention the health benifits


----------



## 3752

reza85 said:


> I think you made good point regarding cheat days being used to up leptin levels and glycogen re-compensation as far my 2 cents go I would rathere have a high carb low fat and low protein days.
> 
> Paul would u also recommend keeping protein low on cheat days ?


i dont eat that much protein on my cheat/relax days....



reza85 said:


> Any particular reason your off the gear mate ?


This below.....



Little_Jay said:


> nt to mention the health benifits


being off gear is not all about HPTA and restoring test levels but to give the body a break in general as steroids indirectly effect a lot of things.....time off is a good thing i will be off until April


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> i dont eat that much protein on my cheat/relax days....
> 
> This below.....
> 
> being off gear is not all about HPTA and restoring test levels but to give the body a break in general as steroids indirectly effect a lot of things.....time off is a good thing i will be off until April


do you think the body gets a break when people "cruise" paul? thats the theroy behind it isnt it?

i repsect your opionin on gear as youve used for most your lfie and from what i know in good health! did you b and c for long? or have you always gone with time off?


----------



## Uriel

Milky said:


> As l have learned the hard way you need to cheat to give your body what it craves once a week.


Edited.

Been a good interesting thread mate so lets not spoil it.


----------



## reza85

Uriel said:


> Edited.
> 
> Been a good interesting thread mate so lets not spoil it.


Were you making silly comments again ? :lol:


----------



## Fatstuff

Uriel said:


> Edited.
> 
> Been a good interesting thread mate so lets not spoil it.


 :lol:


----------



## reza85

Little_Jay said:


> do you think the body gets a break when people "cruise" paul? thats the theroy behind it isnt it?
> 
> i repsect your opionin on gear as youve used for most your lfie and from what i know in good health! did you b and c for long? or have you always gone with time off?


X2 ? please


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> do you think the body gets a break when people "cruise" paul? thats the theroy behind it isnt it?
> 
> i repsect your opionin on gear as youve used for most your lfie and from what i know in good health! did you b and c for long? or have you always gone with time off?


i do think it gets a break if the cruise dose is in fact a cruise dose so 100mg per week or 200mg every 10-14 days, many cruise on much higher dose i spoke to a guy who uses 1000mg to cruise on 

i B&C for 2yrs back in 2004/5 but with higher dose cruising amounts and did not progress past a certain point this is when i dropped the dose and when i went back on the gains where huge compared, i am off now and will be until April time as i am trailing a few methods with GH, Peptides, Slin so the use of AAS would skew the results....

i don't really mind about HPTA recovery as i know i will be going back on and i know you can have kids when it is suppressed, i come off so that my internal organs get a break, gear thickens blood which puts more strain on the kidneys and other organs plus cholesterol etc....


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> i do think it gets a break if the cruise dose is in fact a cruise dose so 100mg per week or 200mg every 10-14 days, many cruise on much higher dose i spoke to a guy who uses 1000mg to cruise on
> 
> i B&C for 2yrs back in 2004/5 but with higher dose cruising amounts and did not progress past a certain point this is when i dropped the dose and when i went back on the gains where huge compared, i am off now and will be until April time as i am trailing a few methods with GH, Peptides, Slin so the use of AAS would skew the results....
> 
> i don't really mind about HPTA recovery as i know i will be going back on and i know you can have kids when it is suppressed, i come off so that my internal organs get a break, gear thickens blood which puts more strain on the kidneys and other organs plus cholesterol etc....


sounds right to me! can you clear pms bud?


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> sounds right to me! can you clear pms bud?


done


----------



## mattiasl

I agree with Pscarb in everything he writes.

Bodybuilders have used cheat days for a long period of time with great outcomes.

I competed between 2003-2009 and also had bodybuilding/fitness clients during this time and all of them placed in the top at Swedish nationals/Nutrition Outlet Grand Prix and Nordic championship. All my clients including me used a reefed/cheat day where everything was consumed on for example a Saturday.

The client that was not used to a cheat day from previous competition prep came in leaner and fuller on the competition day when implementing a cheat day; they also experienced less illnesses during competition prep (cheat day good to decrease cortisol production) and felt less run down during the diet.

I have tried different comp prep but prefer the ones that have a cheat day as I end up more defined, look fuller and feel much better during the whole diet, physically and mentally.

I have not done any research on this but logically a cheat day in a strict comp prep should increase serotonin levels and decrease cortisol levels and other essential hormones and neurotransmitters that is important to maintain a good metabolism.


----------



## User Name

I believe in the binge...............I'm a firm believer in 'if you don't like it, don't do it' - and the opposite.

Overall health is as much mental as physical. I normally compensate (a little at least) for binging by doing some extra cardio the next day. I'll be getting blitzed on Saturday at an 'all you can eat and drink' Xmas Dinner. Already plan to go jogging for 1 hr 30 on Sunday (usually a day off) - with a massive hangover. But knowing it was all worth it. 

Enjoy!


----------



## simonthepieman

i did the best ever cut i have ever done which involved a cheat day. this included booze, choclate sweets, pizza and ice cream. Bizzairely, i looked my best the day after (see profile pic). The other days were very far from decadent.

I have theories on the science, but a lack of evidence so best not to state it


----------



## dtlv

focus_and_win said:


> on internet forums and beyond there is lots of these epic cheat days coming in, i see them more and more
> 
> question is, some people say if your eating clean all week cutting/bulking it dosent matter, one day a week youll struggle to put on any fat if you eat ****e
> 
> yes water and stuff, but actual fat am not sure?
> 
> how have you found it? do you gain much fat?
> 
> do you buy into the current craze of them or is it simply better clean 100%


Depends upon what your calorie restriction is for the rest of the week and how large the excess is on your binge day - if you are in an energy deficit of 500kcals for each other day then that's a 3000kcal deficit for the week, so whatever you binge has to exceed 3000kcals above maintenance to grant a net fat gain.

If you did get above that figure though you'd be more likely to gain any excess as body fat if you ate mostly dietary fat as the form of your excess kcals - when storing calories in an energy excess, carbs and protein in excess will be stored first as glycogen, secondary as body fat... excess dietary fatty acids only have one fate, body fat.

Cheat days have a place for sure in long term dieting, probably more psychologically so than physiologically IMO if totally honest... many of the physiological reasons stated are usually fairly over-egged in most cases, especially about leptin. I think the most potent affect of the cheat day is the mood and motivation boost and how that plays into performance over the whole week.


----------



## Little_Jay

im not deniying its excellent in a diet, but on a bulk or recomp i dont think its needed when cals are atleast maitance anyway!


----------



## empzb

I think it depends what diet you're following already and how big a cheat day it is.

For those on keto, 1 carb day every 5 days - get in, you won't put on an ounce of fat.

For those on low carbs (150g a day) - potentially going to put on a tiny bit of fat depending on how strict you are on the other days.

For those on high carbs (bulking) - you'll put on some fat.

Reason being. For those on Keto - your body is used to burning fat as it's energy source. One cheat day, won't be long enough to get the body into using carbs as the energy source again. All it will do is refuel glycogen and you'll be storing water, and also kickstarting your metabolism.

For those on low carbs, there will already be carbs in your system as energy, so what you don't use, potentially is going to have some stored. There are some exceptions, for example Carb back loading, where you can hammer as many carbs after training in a 2 hour or so window (after doing a 10 day carb deplete/keto).


----------



## mattiasl

Here are some and results from clients and friends that all used a cheat day once a week during contest prep, the second guy to the left used to eat a crazy amount of junk food during his cheat day and he always turned up most shredded on stage.


----------



## User Name

simonthepieman said:


> i did the best ever cut i have ever done which involved a cheat day. this included booze, choclate sweets, pizza and ice cream. Bizzairely, i looked my best the day after (see profile pic). The other days were very far from decadent.
> 
> I have theories on the science, but a lack of evidence so best not to state it


Strange, but true for me too. Had a massive binge on the usual crap last Xmas, and I mean massive.........I was surprised the next day when I looked practically anorexic in comparison to several days previous (I was on 'keto' during that particular period).


----------



## DazUKM

interesting topic; i tend to have cheat evenings (i like my meals anyway) so binge on chocolate/cookies or w/e


----------



## need2bodybuild

I get away with cheat days once a week when dieting (11,000 calories one sunday i recorded and i reckon i've gone way over that and not recorded it) now i'm eating to grow and still having a cheat day every sunday like normal but nowhere near as many calories as the diet binge days and i'm putting on fat too fast for my liking...

I think a cheat meal would suit me better when trying to grow, not a whole day, it's a hard habbit to break though!


----------



## ditz

11k calories in a day :lol:

You might aswell just eat your weeks calorie quota on Sunday, think of all that time cooking and eating in the week you'd save


----------



## User Name

ditz said:


> 11k calories in a day :lol:
> 
> You might aswell just eat your weeks calorie quota on Sunday, think of all that time cooking and eating in the week you'd save


That would be proper Intermittent Fasting. :thumbup1:


----------



## ConstantCut

Good thread!


----------



## Hartman

Dublin said:


> I always wondered is there a level of calories the body can only utilise in one day or one sitting before just passing through you.
> 
> If you fed an anorexic maintainence cals + glycogen replenishing calories + a lot of excess cals i dont think their body would put fat in proportion to the excess calories they have over consumed. I know the arguement is that they cant eat a lot of calories because they have starved themselves so long. But if you used a lot of calorie dense foods like nuts it would be possible and im sure has been tried, but yet they dont put weight on that quick or in proportion to the excess.
> 
> I definitely dont think the body turns excess cals to fat after a decent period of dieting. Personally 2 weeks dieting and a cheat day has worked better for me in the past.


I was wondering this too.... Surely the body can only be able to fully absorb soo many calories over a 24 hour period?


----------



## Little_Jay

my diet is still high in cals atm for a diet, so am gunna keep it this way untill i need to lower to loose more weight

might use refeeds/cheats then but atm theres no need as am carb cycling but when cals are low towatrds end i might look into it

atm it would just set me back


----------



## simonthepieman

I don't know if any of you read iron addicts. But a 11k cheat day is standard cutting procure for a few people there


----------



## ConstantCut

Ive had takeaway and snacks for the last few days (birthday today) but still feel guilty.

A fair amount of cardio needs to be done next week!


----------



## Trevor McDonald

simonthepieman said:


> I don't know if any of you read iron addicts. But a 11k cheat day is standard cutting procure for a few people there


I've seen that. Excellent website. No bs advice.


----------



## focus_and_win

been having sundays off since this thread pretty much, results are even on high cals though week (all clean) am not getting much fatter than i normally would

added to the mental break, its a nice result

nice one boys


----------



## ducky699

i personally dont see why people have a cheat day say every friday...you may not even need it but will have it jsut because you allowed too

when i do cheat i make sure its like ribs from the chinese or something packed with protein


----------



## stryker007

same here, even when I cheat I try and cheat good, typically something involving quality meat.... a sweet cheat I enjoy is peanut butter and jam (no added sugar) on oatmeal bread... sounds boring maybe but tastes superb 

I think its important to occasionally mix things up in the diet department, remember diet only refers to a persons typical staple food... it has nothing to do with going without or cutting back.

Also its important to me to live life! I don't want to wake up one day and feel my good shape and physical performance is a hollow victory as too much sacrifice has been made... life is for living and TBF eating nothing but salad, brocolli and tuna day in day out is not living its barely existing!

My cheat days are the exception not the norm and I think I should touch wood saying this but they've caused me no harm thus far, in fact its often the case the next day I can go to the gym and blast the ball out the park exercising with increased levels of intensity so I guess it balances out in the end anyway.


----------



## ConstantCut

I always say similar to that and tell myself I'll get a chicken kebab, but the word "donner" comes out of my mouth when I'm there! Christ knows what's in it....tastes awesome though!


----------



## owen p

Pscarb said:


> No you won't put fat on it takes time to gain fat it is not an instant thing just as eating a bar of chocolate will not make you fat........
> 
> Dropping the water after a cheat does not stop the body from building muscle as they are two different things your body is able to do two things at the same time........
> 
> I have just prepped for 45 weeks for my regional, British, Worlds and Universe shows and every single week I had a window ranging from 6 to 14 hrs where I eat what ever I wanted and as much as I wanted and I was shredded on stage


dID THIS INCLUDE ALCOHOL??!


----------



## 3752

owen p said:


> dID THIS INCLUDE ALCOHOL??!


No


----------



## Hayesy

Water weight after a binge session it is, thats all...i used to diet all week and sunday eat until i was physically sick used to be a fan of a cheat day...macros out the window and all, rather have a cheat meal that will keep you sane and in control... If your a inner fatty like me cheat day turn me into a vampire for chocolate....


----------



## owen p

I used to be a fat boy. I am now 13st7 and 10% bf. diet is strict all week, but sunday i go mental and eat untill i feel sick! I need this food or i could not diet through the week! After reading this whole thread (very interesting btw) i feel i might be doing a bad thing in my binge as i want to reach 8%bf but really struggling to get there! i would love to go a sunday with 1 cheat meal but dont think i could physically do it!


----------



## focus_and_win

still doing this one day of thing everyone or new ideas on it?

personally i rate it still and will continue doing so.. one day off helps me 100% it rest of week

anyone changed views? new views?


----------



## DazUKM

focus_and_win said:


> still doing this one day of thing everyone or new ideas on it?
> 
> personally i rate it still and will continue doing so.. one day off helps me 100% it rest of week
> 
> anyone changed views? new views?


refeed days have became more popular now instead of cheat days, but nothing wrong with a cheat day for the normal person


----------



## focus_and_win

i think if it keeps u focused (hence the username lol) then its worth it for 1 day off, on a bulk if i dont do this i end up eating **** here and there ed and **** gets real then!


----------



## Fatstuff

Just don't eat 200 cals under ur maintenance each day and then eat 2000 cals over on ur cheat day or it won't work lol


----------



## focus_and_win

Fatstuff said:


> Just don't eat 200 cals under ur maintenance each day and then eat 2000 cals over on ur cheat day or it won't work lol


dont think it works like that tbh mate... @Pscarb is the master of these, but surely on a bulk cals will be surplus all week, he still reccomends one of these


----------



## ConP

Body fat loss and gains is constantly happening.

It's possible to gain unlimited amounts of fat in one day.

Yes you can gain lots and lots of fat in one day.

Obviously being highly depleted first you replete and then gain fat.


----------



## focus_and_win

ConP said:


> Body fat loss and gains is constantly happening.
> 
> It's possible to gain unlimited amounts of fat in one day.
> 
> Yes you can gain lots and lots of fat in one day.
> 
> Obviously being highly depleted first you replete and then gain fat.


didnt no that, is that new studies? alot of people spout 'cant get fat in a day'

so take it you dont give clients a day off? just a meal?


----------



## ConP

focus_and_win said:


> didnt no that, is that new studies? alot of people spout 'cant get fat in a day'
> 
> so take it you dont give clients a day off? just a meal?


Meals off are only given on certain circumstance and rarely worked into a diet.

You know the drill...need to go to dinner for a special event or so on then a free meal is given but not just one for the sake of having one.


----------



## andyhuggins

Back in the day it was a "cheat meal" then it got extended to a cheat day.


----------



## focus_and_win

andyhuggins said:


> Back in the day it was a "cheat meal" then it got extended to a cheat day.


some people even go 5 days clean 2 days cheat, thing is its very indivudal isnt it

i enjoy eating freely without stressing macros, and do have a sweet tooth so its best of both!


----------



## ConP

focus_and_win said:


> some people even go 5 days clean 2 days cheat, thing is its very indivudal isnt it
> 
> i enjoy eating freely without stressing macros, and do have a sweet tooth so its best of both!


It varies so much though doesn't it?

Some guys have a few nice treats and call it a day while others eat until they basically vomit.

Some guys will have a big steak and jacket potato others will opt for 10 burgers at Mac Donalds.


----------



## andyhuggins

focus_and_win said:


> some people even go 5 days clean 2 days cheat, thing is its very indivudal isnt it
> 
> i enjoy eating freely without stressing macros, and do have a sweet tooth so its best of both!


Depends on what your goals are really mate.


----------



## MrLulz

Dieting sucks. Having to be good all week at a 500kcal deficit a day, and then you can ruin it all in one evening just getting a takeaway and some nibbles to eat while watching a movie.

Life can be a bitch!


----------



## simonthepieman

MrLulz said:


> Dieting sucks. Having to be good all week at a 500kcal deficit a day, and then you can ruin it all in one evening just getting a takeaway and some nibbles to eat while watching a movie.
> 
> Life can be a bitch!


This why when cutting I do 1k deficit per day then smash 5k cals on the Saturday


----------



## focus_and_win

ConP said:


> It varies so much though doesn't it?
> 
> Some guys have a few nice treats and call it a day while others eat until they basically vomit.
> 
> Some guys will have a big steak and jacket potato others will opt for 10 burgers at Mac Donalds.


yep thats right mate, i dont think its as clear cut as that though... i think theres more to it than just simply cals on that day..

ive seen people do it offseason every week, for say 6 months and not Gain that much fat, for a avg offseason

i think cheating abit every day is probably worse.. but thats just what ive found


----------



## MrLulz

simonthepieman said:


> This why when cutting I do 1k deficit per day then smash 5k cals on the Saturday


I don't think I could cut that low for any period of time!


----------



## andyhuggins

focus_and_win said:


> yep thats right mate, i dont think its as clear cut as that though... i think theres more to it than just simply cals on that day..
> 
> ive seen people do it offseason every week, for say 6 months and not Gain that much fat, for a avg offseason
> 
> i think cheating abit every day is probably worse.. but thats just what ive found


Its a cheat meal once a week. Not one every day.


----------



## focus_and_win

andyhuggins said:


> Its a cheat meal once a week. Not one every day.


wat am saying is, if i dont have a set day i eat a bit every few days or everyday, if i have a set day it means i nail the other 6 100%


----------



## andyhuggins

focus_and_win said:


> wat am saying is, if i dont have a set day i eat a bit every few days or everyday, if i have a set day it means i nail the other 6 100%


What are your goals thou mate?


----------



## focus_and_win

andyhuggins said:


> What are your goals thou mate?


build muscle mate


----------



## andyhuggins

focus_and_win said:


> build muscle mate


So the best thing you can do is post your diet. so that members can help you with your goal. Post your stats and training as well.


----------



## focus_and_win

andyhuggins said:


> So the best thing you can do is post your diet. so that members can help you with your goal. Post your stats and training as well.


i have my diet that works currently mate, gaining weight but not too fast! just gunaa keep doing this, when weight dosent up over a 2 week period up slightly!

just wondering on this though, but i personally find am getting away with it so why not!


----------



## focus_and_win

any of the saturday night crew got any views?

been good discussion so far


----------



## andyhuggins

Hey if it's working for you then keep at it mate.


----------



## 3752

ConP said:


> Body fat loss and gains is constantly happening.
> 
> It's possible to gain unlimited amounts of fat in one day.
> 
> Yes you can gain lots and lots of fat in one day.
> 
> Obviously being highly depleted first you replete and then gain fat.


this is true but this is not cheating/refeeding this is binging.......

as with everything if you take it to the extreme it can be negative, given the correct environment cheating/refeeding does not and will not make you fat in one day in fact it will have the opposite effect (reason for having it in the first place), of course if you are dieting at maintenance and you have a cheat meal every-night you will get fat as you are consuming over your maintenance so you will gain weight and some will be fat weight......

but if you are following a calories deficit diet and you structure your refeeds/cheats in when needed then they will assist with raising leptin which in turn raises metabolism etc......

when i diet i structure in refeeds every 7-10 days, the week before the NABBA Universe last year i had a 12hr refeed and lost weight from it.........

there is no one way or one method that suits everyone, when i work with someone in the off season they have 8hrs on a sunday to relax and that is every week as the goal is gaining, once this moves to pre comp and the goal is fat loss this gets cut out and when ready they a meal and we go from there but it could go all the way to 12-14hrs........


----------



## focus_and_win

watery today but yesterday was nice!

anyone else do similar yest?


----------



## focus_and_win

Pscarb said:


> this is true but this is not cheating/refeeding this is binging.......
> 
> as with everything if you take it to the extreme it can be negative, given the correct environment cheating/refeeding does not and will not make you fat in one day in fact it will have the opposite effect (reason for having it in the first place), of course if you are dieting at maintenance and you have a cheat meal every-night you will get fat as you are consuming over your maintenance so you will gain weight and some will be fat weight......
> 
> but if you are following a calories deficit diet and you structure your refeeds/cheats in when needed then they will assist with raising leptin which in turn raises metabolism etc......
> 
> when i diet i structure in refeeds every 7-10 days, the week before the NABBA Universe last year i had a 12hr refeed and lost weight from it.........
> 
> there is no one way or one method that suits everyone, when i work with someone in the off season they have 8hrs on a sunday to relax and that is every week as the goal is gaining, once this moves to pre comp and the goal is fat loss this gets cut out and when ready they a meal and we go from there but it could go all the way to 12-14hrs........


say the person is on 4k cals through week mate, and growing nicely, wouldnt eating 5k/6k junk on this day mean fat gain in theroy? allthough from my own findings its not quite as simple even though am not sure why

if client is getting too heavy too quick do you shorten the hours down of free eating?

how long do you nomally take to drop water? takes me untill about thursday usually!


----------



## Kimball

I get an 8 hour refeed, eating anything I want, once a week, my weight has steadily dropped about 1/2lb a week since starting it and have definitely not gained fat, I've lost it.


----------



## ConP

Kimball said:


> I get an 8 hour refeed, eating anything I want, once a week, my weight has steadily dropped about 1/2lb a week since starting it and have definitely not gained fat, I've lost it.


1/2lb is a very slow rate of fat loss though.

Obviously not knocking it and fair play for the progress.

But if I had a client and he was only losing .5lb per week he probably would be unhappy with it.

Different strokes for different folks I guess...


----------



## 3752

focus_and_win said:


> say the person is on 4k cals through week mate, and growing nicely, wouldnt eating 5k/6k junk on this day mean fat gain in theroy? allthough from my own findings its not quite as simple even though am not sure why
> 
> if client is getting too heavy too quick do you shorten the hours down of free eating?
> 
> how long do you nomally take to drop water? takes me untill about thursday usually!


if in the off season a number of hours is not required to increase the metabolism as you will be in a growth state so leptin will not be considered low, a number of hours/day is there for the individual to relax with the strictness of normal dieting (even being in the off season), this is not the case when fat loss is the goal as you are in a calorie deficit and over time this will lower leptin which inturn lower metabolism etc......

so if you eat sh1t load of junk food or calories in one day through the off season where you have plenty of calories through the week, then yes IMO you run the risk of gaining fat


----------



## 3752

ConP said:


> 1/2lb is a very slow rate of fat loss though.
> 
> Obviously not knocking it and fair play for the progress.
> 
> But if I had a client and he was only losing .5lb per week he probably would be unhappy with it.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I guess...


his goal is body recomp not overall fat loss though so weight will not show this each week although his pictures do


----------



## Kimball

ConP said:


> 1/2lb is a very slow rate of fat loss though.
> 
> Obviously not knocking it and fair play for the progress.
> 
> But if I had a client and he was only losing .5lb per week he probably would be unhappy with it.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks I guess...


Depends on the goal, I'm not looking to lose weight but to recomp, to be honest I'm delighted with it, weight a little down, strength and energy huge improvements, PBs across the board and big definition improvement. Exactly what my goal is.

Losing weight isn't hard but making improvements across the board while doing so is


----------



## focus_and_win

i think aswell the mental aspect cant be nocked,living like a bb 7 days a week for some people will only mean burn out. IMO


----------



## 3752

focus_and_win said:


> i think aswell the mental aspect cant be nocked,living like a bb 7 days a week for some people will only mean burn out. IMO


and for 99.9% of those on this and other forums there is no need to


----------



## focus_and_win

Pscarb said:


> and for 99.9% of those on this and other forums there is no need to


if you have a day off sundays then am sure its proof in pudding!

do most bb's you know do similar? like the BIG boys am talkin or are they 24/7 diet mode


----------



## 3752

focus_and_win said:


> if you have a day off sundays then am sure its proof in pudding!
> 
> do most bb's you know do similar? like the BIG boys am talkin or are they 24/7 diet mode


unless they are prepping for a show non of the guys i know including Pro's stick to diet mode 24/7


----------



## focus_and_win

be intresting to see some of the big lads ideas on this

@Chelsea @liam0810 @Bad Alan @dutch scott @roblet @Therealbigbear @LittleChris

@cj @loganator


----------



## Fatstuff

really?


----------



## Fatstuff

focus_and_win said:


> be intresting to see some of the big lads ideas on this
> 
> @roblet


I ask again........... really?


----------



## Fatstuff

@R0BLET just to get him in


----------



## focus_and_win

Fatstuff said:


> I ask again........... really?


yep...


----------



## Fatstuff

Pscarb n con must be a couple of no knowledge pencil necks eh?


----------



## TELBOR

Fatstuff said:


> @R0BLET just to get him in


I'm printing this page and framing it!

@flinty90 are you proud ? :lol:


----------



## Breda

focus_and_win said:


> be intresting to see some of the big lads ideas on this
> 
> @Chelsea @liam0810 @Bad Alan @dutch scott @roblet @Therealbigbear @LittleChris
> 
> @cj @loganator


R0BLET pmsl


----------



## TELBOR

Breda said:


> R0BLET pmsl


Laugh it up bitches


----------



## Breda

R0BLET said:


> Laugh it up bitches


I am mate


----------



## TELBOR

Breda said:


> I am mate


Good lad :lol:

Must be 10st behind all those lot !!


----------



## Fatstuff

The thing I originally laughed at was the fact that con and pscarb have had a fairly indepth chat about it and then that guy wants to see the 'big lads' thoughts

Trying to mention @R0BLET just made it all that more delicious:lol:


----------



## Breda

R0BLET said:


> Good lad :lol:
> 
> Must be 10st behind all those lot !!


You'll catch them one day mate

Did you pay the guy to post that if not I wanna know what the fuk he's on


----------



## Kimball

focus_and_win said:


> be intresting to see some of the big lads ideas on this
> 
> @Chelsea @liam0810 @Bad Alan @dutch scott @roblet @Therealbigbear @LittleChris
> 
> @cj @loganator


You didn't just say that?


----------



## TELBOR

Breda said:


> You'll catch them one day mate
> 
> Did you pay the guy to post that if not I wanna know what the fuk he's on


I too wish to know his current meds :lol:

But, it's nice to be noticed


----------



## TELBOR

Kimball said:


> You didn't just say that?


I know mate, @Chelsea is tiny


----------



## J_boyd85

Pscarb said:


> unless they are prepping for a show non of the guys i know including Pro's stick to diet mode 24/7


You would go insane if you did! Ive always incorporated cheats even right up to 2 even 1 week out


----------



## ConP

Another part to the discussion is do you practice IIFYM....

I always do so I can within reason incorporate all kinds of food into my diet.

I am not one that can stick to the same foods every day it makes me feel ill.


----------



## Kimball

R0BLET said:


> I know mate, @Chelsea is tiny


Not sure why he mentioned all those skinny fukkers at the same time as you really, I'd be insulted.

I can obviously understand him wanting your opinion over the likes of @Pscarb and @ConP but Chelsea and that lot, what could they tell him?


----------



## TELBOR

Kimball said:


> Not sure why he mentioned all those skinny fukkers at the same time as you really, I'd be insulted.
> 
> I can obviously understand him wanting your opinion over the likes of @Pscarb and @ConP but Chelsea and that lot, what could they tell him?


Weird one mate, very weird.

Oh, I did have this lot post workout saturday if that helps. Don't think I got fat though ;


----------



## Chelsea

R0BLET said:


> I'm printing this page and framing it!
> 
> @flinty90 are you proud ? :lol:


Omg im actually cracking up at home!! :lol:



Breda said:


> R0BLET pmsl


Hahahahahahaahahaha this is amazing and slightly worrying as to why I was categorised with this gimp, although big bear was in there too so happy days!



R0BLET said:


> Laugh it up bitches


We fcking are im still laughing, I may have wee'd 



R0BLET said:


> Good lad :lol:
> 
> Must be 10st behind all those lot !!


10st is that it hahahahahahahahahahaha :lol:


----------



## gettingLEAN

i cheat every weekend, i think if you lose BF at a slow rate u can get away with binge eating now n again more than vs if ur just super strict eating "clean foods" all week etc my diet during week is about 2800cals then sat n sunday prob about 4-5k depending how bingey i get  i also think it varies on person to person, know your own body and what u can get away with!


----------



## Ginger Ben

R0BLET said:


> Weird one mate, very weird.
> 
> Oh, I did have this lot post workout saturday if that helps. Don't think I got fat though ;


Nice use of Tpw protein there


----------



## Chelsea

R0BLET said:


> I know mate, @Chelsea is tiny


Only compared to Big Ron :whistling:


----------



## gettingLEAN

R0BLET said:


> Weird one mate, very weird.
> 
> Oh, I did have this lot post workout saturday if that helps. Don't think I got fat though ;


did u make those pancakes they look insane!


----------



## 3752

PharmaDub said:


> From reading Dan Duchaine's Bodyopus and Lyle McDonald's ultimate diet (all cyclical keto diets) they require on your cheat to keep fats very low, Dan even went as far as limiting carbs in that no fructose was allowed. Would it be more likely that the average trainer as opposed to competition bbers would need to restrict the cheat somewhat where as because the sheer quantity of muscle competition bbers have allows them more leeway in their cheat?


when i cheat i tend to keep it lowish in fat (really low in prep) as i find that the water that comes with cheats/refeeds holds for longer if the cheat was higher in fats...

for those i coach i give them free rain over what they eat normally over an 8hr period (although i do insist they do not binge) but refeeds/cheats are very different for everyone there is no one rule that covers all, for me i tend to use the day as a relax day not weighing food, not eating at a specific time for me this is more important than what i eat.....(in the off season)


----------



## TELBOR

Ginger Ben said:


> Nice use of Tpw protein there


Agreed


----------



## TELBOR

gettingLEAN said:


> did u make those pancakes they look insane!


Yes mate, popped them in the toaster


----------



## focus_and_win

some more good points IIFYM is a idea, but who would want a tiny bar of choclate, we all know we need the full pack!


----------



## DoubleXL-

My binges seem to run in to the next couple of days at the moment but taper off in severity, try to do one a month, however this weekend will make the 2nd one this month, all depends on my social life, after all I'm never going to step on stage so what's the point in being ultra strict 24/7!


----------



## focus_and_win

wonder what *IGotTekkers* thinks


----------



## Ben_Dover

focus_and_win said:


> wonder what *IGotTekkers* thinks


Have you seen his diet? I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a fcuk


----------



## dtlv

Can you get fat in a day? You can add some fat in a day for sure, but whether a huge feeding day will do this and to what degree depends upon the state your body is in at the beginning of the day -

If you come to it depleted of glycogen and intramuscular fat after six days negative energy balance and low carb feeding then you'll unlikely add much fat at all as the extra kcals above maintenance will mostly simply replenish glycogen and IMTG's... but if you come to a massive binge already with glycogen and IMTG stores all filled up then you'll surely add a good few kcals as fat.


----------



## Little_Jay

dtlv said:


> Can you get fat in a day? You can add some fat in a day for sure, but whether a huge feeding day will do this and to what degree depends upon the state your body is in at the beginning of the day -
> 
> If you come to it depleted of glycogen and intramuscular fat after six days negative energy balance and low carb feeding then you'll unlikely add much fat at all as the extra kcals above maintenance will mostly simply replenish glycogen and IMTG's... but if you come to a massive binge already with glycogen and IMTG stores all filled up then you'll surely add a good few kcals as fat.


so say you at matiance 6 days a week. then on the sunday eat 3500 cals over maitance, would you add 1lb of fat, its that simple??


----------



## IGotTekkers

Ben_Dover said:


> Have you seen his diet? I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a fcuk


If

It

Fits

Your

Macros.

the best diet is a diet with no macros so everything fits. :thumb:


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> so say you at matiance 6 days a week. then on the sunday eat 3500 cals over maitance, would you add 1lb of fat, its that simple??


it is never that simple as many other factors come into play, but as @dtlv said if you do 6 days at negative energy balance (calorie Deficit) then you are unlikely to put on fat eat at maintenance is not negative calories


----------



## Little_Jay

Pscarb said:


> it is never that simple as many other factors come into play, but as @dtlv said if you do 6 days at negative energy balance (calorie Deficit) then you are unlikely to put on fat eat at maintenance is not negative calories


yer i understand if your eating in a minus all week, but thats why i asked matiance or even surplus.


----------



## 3752

Little_Jay said:


> yer i understand if your eating in a minus all week, but thats why i asked matiance or even surplus.


if you are in a negative energy balance you are unlikely to put fat on, so if you are not in a negative energy balance the chances of putting fat on are higher....


----------



## SCOOT123

Little_Jay said:


> so say you at matiance 6 days a week. then on the sunday eat 3500 cals over maitance, would you add 1lb of fat, its that simple??


I am currently doing the following

Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday - 500cal defect

Friday - 200cal defect

Sunday - 800cal defect

*Saturday - 3-4000 over maintainence*

Cardio 3-4 times a week

weights 4 times a week

and losing 2-4lbs a week.

Which im happy with. I only have a cheat day / window whatever you want to call it for my GF's sake ! So we can do things out the box once a week and let our hair down lol!


----------



## dtlv

Little_Jay said:


> so say you at matiance 6 days a week. then on the sunday eat 3500 cals over maitance, would you add 1lb of fat, its that simple??


Well almost but not quite... 3500kcals above maintenance on one day per week (after 6 days straight maintenance) would add 3500kals of energy to your body, but it won't necessarily all be fat - calorie/energy balance determines how many kcals of stored energy your body gains or loses, but from where it comes from or where it goes is always a combination of subcutaneous fat, intramuscular fat, visceral fat, glycogen, muscle tissue... is never the case that all kcals added go only as subcutaneous and visceral fat, the two 'undesirable' storage sites.

Is likely you would predominantly add fat though, but it won't all be added as fat by any means from just one day in sevens overfeeding.


----------



## simonthepieman

dtlv said:


> Well almost but not quite... 3500kcals above maintenance on one day per week (after 6 days straight maintenance) would add 3500kals of energy to your body, but it won't necessarily all be fat - calorie/energy balance determines how many kcals of stored energy your body gains or loses, but from where it comes from or where it goes is always a combination of subcutaneous fat, intramuscular fat, visceral fat, glycogen, muscle tissue... is never the case that all kcals added go only as subcutaneous and visceral fat, the two 'undesirable' storage sites.
> 
> Is likely you would predominantly add fat though, but it won't all be added as fat by any means from just one day in sevens overfeeding.


I was just about to say the same.

However in a slightly less assures inarticulate and less verbose way


----------



## simonthepieman

SCOOT123 said:


> I am currently doing the following
> 
> Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday - 500cal defect
> 
> Friday - 200cal defect
> 
> Sunday - 800cal defect
> 
> *Saturday - 3-4000 over maintainence*
> 
> Cardio 3-4 times a week
> 
> weights 4 times a week
> 
> and losing 2-4lbs a week.
> 
> Which im happy with. I only have a cheat day / window whatever you want to call it for my GF's sake ! So we can do things out the box once a week and let our hair down lol!


One day people will believe me how effective the pieman diet is.

Another people eating **** loads and losing fat and lifts going up. I don't even charge for diet and training advice


----------



## Tom90

simonthepieman said:


> One day people will believe me how effective the pieman diet is.
> 
> Another people eating **** loads and losing fat and lifts going up. I don't even charge for diet and training advice


I'll be honest Si I've kinda been following it.

Monday 2000 cals

Tuesday 2000 cals

Wednesday 2500 cals

Thursday 2000 cals

Friday 2000 cals

Saturday 6000+

Sunday 2000 cals

I weighed 86.1kg on Tuesday which is the lightest I've been in a long while. I have been on test prop, var and clen, and doing a sh!t load of HIIT, but it's working!!!


----------



## dtlv

simonthepieman said:


> I was just about to say the same.
> 
> However in a slightly less assures inarticulate and less verbose way


Haha, I find being verbose often means I don't have to come back a dozen times to explain what I meant, even if at times my posts do end up unreadably long


----------



## focus_and_win

dtlv said:


> Well almost but not quite... 3500kcals above maintenance on one day per week (after 6 days straight maintenance) would add 3500kals of energy to your body, but it won't necessarily all be fat - calorie/energy balance determines how many kcals of stored energy your body gains or loses, but from where it comes from or where it goes is always a combination of subcutaneous fat, intramuscular fat, visceral fat, glycogen, muscle tissue... is never the case that all kcals added go only as subcutaneous and visceral fat, the two 'undesirable' storage sites.
> 
> Is likely you would predominantly add fat though, but it won't all be added as fat by any means from just one day in sevens overfeeding.


sounds good to me do you think there would be a difference in fat gains say if you done no 3500 on sunday but added 3500 to your week so overall cals the same??

sorry to pick your brains, just intrests me how the human body reacts with diff cal stratagys!

obviously the big eat day will hold more water, but in terms of fat/muscle much diff???


----------



## simonthepieman

dtlv said:


> Haha, I find being verbose often means I don't have to come back a dozen times to explain what I meant, even if at times my posts do end up unreadably long


I love your posts. Don't ever change dude


----------



## focus_and_win

simonthepieman said:


> I love your posts. Don't ever change dude


quality posts arnt they!

you still doing this diet you talk of btw mate?


----------



## simonthepieman

focus_and_win said:


> quality posts arnt they!
> 
> you still doing this diet you talk of btw mate?


No, only when cutting which I am not planning on doing for the rest of the year


----------



## focus_and_win

simonthepieman said:


> No, only when cutting which I am not planning on doing for the rest of the year


do you eat clean bulking then out of intrest? or still a relaxed day>


----------



## simonthepieman

focus_and_win said:


> sounds good to me do you think there would be a difference in fat gains say if you done no 3500 on sunday but added 3500 to your week so overall cals the same??
> 
> sorry to pick your brains, just intrests me how the human body reacts with diff cal stratagys!
> 
> obviously the big eat day will hold more water, but in terms of fat/muscle much diff???


There would be some differences, Calories counting isn't a zero sum game


----------



## simonthepieman

focus_and_win said:


> do you eat clean bulking then out of intrest? or still a relaxed day>


I eat food i like, when i like.

When i get too fat I cut.


----------



## focus_and_win

simonthepieman said:


> I eat food i like, when i like.
> 
> When i get too fat I cut.


lmao, thats quality mate! i couldnt do that ad be cutting within 2 weeks!


----------



## simonthepieman

focus_and_win said:


> lmao, thats quality mate! i couldnt do that ad be cutting within 2 weeks!


i just posted up my cutting diet in this forum


----------



## Robbie789

focus_and_win said:


> do you eat clean bulking then out of intrest? or still a relaxed day>


I rinse my food under the tap if it falls on the floor sometimes, does that mean I'm clean eating?


----------



## focus_and_win

robdobbie said:


> I rinse my food under the tap if it falls on the floor sometimes, does that mean I'm clean eating?


funny guy, so in seiousness do you eat set macros or just go by cals?

ive tried the tap trick a few times, just makes my burger soggy!


----------



## focus_and_win

simonthepieman said:


> i just posted up my cutting diet in this forum


looks good mate, results aswell!

i always thought you had to lower cals each week, but obviously not?


----------



## ki3rz

focus_and_win said:


> looks good mate, results aswell!
> 
> i always thought you had to lower cals each week, but obviously not?


Only if fat loss stalls for a period of time, e.g. more than 2/3 weeks then they might need a slight adjustment.


----------



## focus_and_win

ki3rz said:


> Only if fat loss stalls for a period of time, e.g. more than 2/3 weeks then they might need a slight adjustment.


yes, so start of as high as possible which leaves room for manouver!


----------



## J_boyd85

Pscarb said:


> when i cheat i tend to keep it lowish in fat (really low in prep) as i find that the water that comes with cheats/refeeds holds for longer if the cheat was higher in fats...
> 
> for those i coach i give them free rain over what they eat normally over an 8hr period (although i do insist they do not binge) but refeeds/cheats are very different for everyone there is no one rule that covers all, for me i tend to use the day as a relax day not weighing food, not eating at a specific time for me this is more important than what i eat.....(in the off season)


Same as me mate nice to just relax and not eat at specific times or weigh food etc


----------



## ki3rz

focus_and_win said:


> yes, so start of as high as possible which leaves room for manouver!


Exactly!


----------



## DoubleXL-

Latest cheat 'day' has just ended. Started Friday night.

In excess of 6000kcal each day, where for art thou abs :'(


----------



## focus_and_win

DoubleXL- said:


> Latest cheat 'day' has just ended. Started Friday night.
> 
> In excess of 6000kcal each day, where for art thou abs :'(


****! how that one come about mate? one day does me!

what where you eating like?

mine on sunday..

full english from carvery..

pictures pic n mix ice cream

indian

bits in between!


----------



## DoubleXL-

focus_and_win said:


> ****! how that one come about mate? one day does me!
> 
> what where you eating like?
> 
> mine on sunday..
> 
> full english from carvery..
> 
> pictures pic n mix ice cream
> 
> indian
> 
> bits in between!


Not really sure mate haha, usually when things like that happen with me alcohol is involved, drank Friday Saturday Sunday 

To be honest I actually prefer doing one day cheats it just makes you feel slow, fat and lethargic doing what I did lol

Back on track today though,

3000kcal

366g protein

170g carbs

91g fats


----------



## focus_and_win

DoubleXL- said:


> Not really sure mate haha, usually when things like that happen with me alcohol is involved, drank Friday Saturday Sunday
> 
> To be honest I actually prefer doing one day cheats it just makes you feel slow, fat and lethargic doing what I did lol
> 
> Back on track today though,
> 
> 3000kcal
> 
> 366g protein
> 
> 170g carbs
> 
> 91g fats


yer its ale that does me aswell mate, if i have a hangover i eat terrible and thats just fact haha!

plus i enjoy junk food too much anyway! been ****ing like mad since sunday, water must be leaving ha!


----------



## focus_and_win

who still does this then? currently loosing bodyfat and using them well, look a different person come monday,bad side is by friday am looking flat again

also gives me some form of social enjoyment


----------



## TELBOR

focus_and_win said:


> who still does this then? currently loosing bodyfat and using them well, look a different person come monday,bad side is by friday am looking flat again
> 
> also gives me some form of social enjoyment


I do mate! Love a good binge, either Saturday or Sunday


----------



## focus_and_win

R0BLET said:


> I do mate! Love a good binge, either Saturday or Sunday


dieting or growing phase bud? whats been this weekends binge?


----------



## TELBOR

focus_and_win said:


> dieting or growing phase bud? whats been this weekends binge?


Growing mate, constantly growing lol

Yesterday was Pizza Hut last night, probably could have done with a big bag of haribo's to top it off though :lol:


----------



## WannaGetHench

R0BLET said:


> Yes mate, popped them in the toaster


where can i get some?


----------



## TELBOR

WannaGetHench said:


> where can i get some?


Supermarkets :beer:


----------



## IGotTekkers

skiersteve said:


> I just have one cheat meal and not a whole day every week on Saturday, its gives you something to look forward too and makes eating chicken rice and veggies that much more bearable


Why on earth would you only eat chicken rice and veg all the time? You can still make the same gains on a satisfying varied diet ya know?


----------



## focus_and_win

IGotTekkers said:


> Why on earth would you only eat chicken rice and veg all the time? You can still make the same gains on a satisfying varied diet ya know?


go on then, what you reccomend


----------



## benchking

I try to put them around legs day as I feel this is my weakpoint


----------



## Boshlop

focus_and_win said:


> go on then, what you reccomend


well there are a big list of meats, type fo pasta/rice/potato and whole grain breads ect. veg or salads, sauces or home made thing to fit macros. just pick things and put them together?

chicken with sweet potato mixed with some quark and some green beans and peppers is a random idea.

frying steak in a wrap with some mixed salad and some evoo over the top or some feta cheese

two random ideas in 3 seconds that could be amde to match a macro


----------



## WannaGetHench

R0BLET said:


> Supermarkets :beer:


what one and what are they called mate?


----------



## TELBOR

WannaGetHench said:


> what one and what are they called mate?


We still talking about pancakes? Lol.

Been a long time going this thread 

Get mine from Asda or Aldi


----------



## focus_and_win

had a unplanned one today, went to work an just went mad

full english breakfast

greggs for lunch

thinking about what to eat for tea tonight allready!

dammm this feels good!


----------



## TELBOR

focus_and_win said:


> had a unplanned one today, went to work an just went mad
> 
> full english breakfast
> 
> greggs for lunch
> 
> thinking about what to eat for tea tonight allready!
> 
> dammm this feels good!


Gregg's !! Love Gregg's lol


----------



## ki3rz

focus_and_win said:


> had a unplanned one today, went to work an just went mad
> 
> full english breakfast
> 
> greggs for lunch
> 
> thinking about what to eat for tea tonight allready!
> 
> dammm this feels good!


It's not going to feel good tomorrow when you feel guilty as fvck :lol:


----------



## focus_and_win

R0BLET said:


> Gregg's !! Love Gregg's lol


just had a dominos mate! bloated now mind


----------



## TELBOR

focus_and_win said:


> just had a dominos mate! bloated now mind


Nice clean day today then lol


----------



## focus_and_win

R0BLET said:


> Nice clean day today then lol


not eating today, just drinking lmao


----------



## TELBOR

focus_and_win said:


> not eating today, just drinking lmao


Out on the lash?

Lol


----------



## focus_and_win

R0BLET said:


> Out on the lash?
> 
> Lol


sure am mate


----------



## TELBOR

focus_and_win said:


> sure am mate


Oh dear, proper 2 day blow out then :beer:


----------

