# the best fat burners



## andye

up to now ive lost 16lb since xmas which im over the moon with, my bodyfat has gone from 29% down to 24.

im currently taking eca stack at 30mgs of ephidrine, 200mgs caffeine and 300mgs of aspirin 3 times a day.

im also taking a supplement called "thermo 3" which i bought off ebay. they seem to be quite good for the price (8quid) but im looking for summit stronger just to get me to about 17-20% asap.

the thermo 3 contain.... gugulipid,thermo 3 tea,green tea extract, caffiene, siberian ginseng,l taurine, cayenne fruit, bioperin. (personally ive never heard of a lot of the ingredients).

what yous reckon????

im doing 1hr of cardio every day and moderate-heavy weight training 4 days a week.

also, whats this t3 everyones talking about?


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## John

for now anyway, its a Thyroid drug and tbh its probably not required yet.

Yould try some Clen though, or if you can get it, you could try EPH. I cant remember if that is the correct name, which is strange as i sourced some for OSC a while back, just ask down your gym ( depending on where you train ).

Hows your diet ( im sorry i cant remember if you said ), you could also look into Pscarbs posts on carb cycling, all of this may help.

For me personally, that looks like too much aspirin pd aswell, but again this is just me.


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## hackskii

Diet is the key to fat loss.

It was food that got you into the shape you are or were in and it is food that will get you out.

Controlling insulin is 90% the battle.

Too many stimulants in the long run will result in some health issues, if not anything else dependency.


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## trickymicky69

hackskii said:


> Diet is the key to fat loss.
> 
> It was food that got you into the shape you are or were in and it is food that will get you out.


that is a very prophetic way of putting it. you should write a book and that can be the title


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## hackskii

trickymicky69 said:


> that is a very prophetic way of putting it. you should write a book and that can be the title


i guess, but there are many out there already

Most people just want answers to the questions.

I love giving the answers to the questions along with the reason to the answer.

But most of this is posted already many times.

I dont mind typing but some times I do need to work too

Plus you need to pay for the book and it is free here.


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## gadgesxi

i just got some animal cuts, gonna give it a whirl see if its any good.


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## Tatyana

OH MAN, stay away from pharmaceuticals like clenbuterol and T3! SCARY!

There is a school of thought that fat burners will only work at a certain body fat (fairly low)!

Green tea is one of the best known fat burners! That ephedra stack thing is supposed to be quite good, but using it with another fat burner, a bit dodgy.

In all honesty, one of my comp buddies, a young man, did the ephedra stack, clen AND bloody Animal Cuts all together, and I got just as ripped (gender issues aside/compared) just using ANimal Cuts.

I also like hydroxycut, use caffeine free hydroxy cut while on carb load for a comp (caffeine interfers with carb loading!).

Have been used Thermoshred this time round, and not as good! I don't like to use fat burners all that much, and ONLY use them to get butt on stage in a bikini!

Your body will adapt, and all the extra caffeine/stimulants really has you living on 'borrowed' time, so don't think that they are the magic bullet, only an aid.

It is diet, and CARDIO CARDIO CARDIO that burns the most fat!


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## andye

since i started this post ive spoke to hackskii and hes put me on a great diet. im still taking clen but ive got my waist donw to 36" (from 40.5) and ive kept most of my upper body size.

i am still taking clen though as it appears to be working so i think i'll stop when i get to 33-34" waist.

ps.... hackskii, diet is great, but the tuna is killing me, i hate it lol. but ive lost 3 pounds this week so all is good

cheers


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## hovis

whats is the great diet?


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## hackskii

hovis said:


> whats is the great diet?


Simple.

It is for controlling insulin to make diet easier for fat loss


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## Ironman

Scott mate - with all your diet knowledge - could you rustle something up for my good lady wife - whos 7 months post giving birth. My diet knowledge consists of steak and chips to get big lol. My bird was a size 8 -10 and sexy as hell but is now size 16 which niether of us is happy about! she will be doing cardios and light weights.

Hope you can help dude - if you have the time.


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## John

think of the boobies:rolleye11 , you gotta love em .


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## DB

andye said:


> since i started this post ive spoke to hackskii and hes put me on a great diet. im still taking clen but ive got my waist donw to 36" (from 40.5) and ive kept most of my upper body size.
> 
> i am still taking clen though as it appears to be working so i think i'll stop when i get to 33-34" waist.
> 
> ps.... hackskii, diet is great, but the tuna is killing me, i hate it lol. but ive lost 3 pounds this week so all is good
> 
> cheers


shame scotti dont practise what he preaches eace: :behindsof :laugh: :rolleye11


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## Ironman

John said:


> think of the boobies:rolleye11 , you gotta love em .


Man I hate big boobs - Im a handful at most man - firm and pert.

My wifes used to be like that now theyre huge and hanging . Got a fund going to get them opted on when the times right 

Cant even touch them at the mo - doesnt feel right - I realise im odd in my views here. I'll hail the day she stops breast feeding gets some implants and I can reclaim them as my sex objects once again!


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## DB

lol iron man at least ur honest!!!


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## andye

oh dear....

my girlfreind gave birth 2 my son 2 weeks ago and her stomach is nearly flat already. shes lost 3 inches off her legs in 2 weeks.

ive got her doing cardio to finish the rest off.

sorry to rub that in iron man, i'm sure she'll get there in the end.


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## Ironman

I appreciate your words dude - the problem my wife has is simple - shes LAZY.

I'll dam make sure she gets there!!


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## hackskii

How is that diet going Andye?


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## andye

its going great now you sorted it

. see my other post in this section.


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## pookie69

hackskii said:


> Simple.
> 
> It is for controlling insulin to make diet easier for fat loss


Could you give a few more details please? Thanks


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## hackskii

DB said:


> shame scotti dont practise what he preaches eace: :behindsof :laugh: :rolleye11


Na na nanaaa na:tongue10:

I have lost 25.5 lbs and 6.5" on the waist so there.

That is less than 1 inch for every 4 lbs so naaaa naaaaahhhhh

River in 4 weeks

I will be ready.

30 lb loss total in 20 weeks.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it DB:love:


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## hackskii

pookie69 said:


> Could you give a few more details please? Thanks


Yah, I guess I could.

Simple verson is use lower GI carbs, lower the carbs some, raise the fats, especially the good ones (fish oils), take in protein, fat, carbs every meal.

I usually only eat fruit and vegetables and the low GI ones at that.

Very successfull actually.

Eat every 2 hours small meals.

1.5 hours after my meal I drink about 20 oz of water.

Make your last two meals fat and protein only, my last meal is just eggs, cheese and tons of hot sauce

Oh, all that and zero cardio, cardio is not needed unless you just want to be in better cardiovascular shape.

I have been reading that some cardio is counterproductive in fat loss.

I will share that apon request.

Which is one of the myths in my book.

Every day you will be a bit lighter, I have one cheat day on Fridays that includes alcohol and foods I dont normally eat.

Thats pretty much it.


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## pawfecshun

I am new here, and am going through some of the "older" threads and am sitting here laughing my head off at the boob talk

I found it interesting Tatyana that green tea helps to lose weight, so I am off to Tesco to buy a load of it, even though I hate it, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I am in the minority on this forum, just going to the gym to stay toned and keep fit, I am not a body builder........runs for coat!! lol


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## Tatyana

Ironman said:


> I appreciate your words dude - the problem my wife has is simple - shes LAZY.
> 
> I'll dam make sure she gets there!!


Hey Ironman,

A lot of English women do not like the gym, typical exercise stuff. What about getting her into a yoga class?

A lot of them do wonders for building muscle, losing weight.

OR and you are gonna love this one, send her to bellydancing classes.

The next rage for women, and this is going to seem funny, but it will probably be pole dancing. There are loads of schools already in London, most cater to one day hen night things (lap dancing classes with these as well), but some do run over several weeks.

Those girls make it look EASY, but it is a good workout, some women SWEAR by it.

Respect

T


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## pookie69

hackskii said:


> Oh, all that and zero cardio, cardio is not needed unless you just want to be in better cardiovascular shape.
> 
> I have been reading that some cardio is counterproductive in fat loss.
> 
> I will share that apon request.
> 
> Which is one of the myths in my book.


Really? 

Hmmmm. I run 4 times a week before breakie after a night of fasting and a previous night's meal of zero carbs. 'Run'. Its more like a 40min jog with 5mins of running to break up the pace. I try to maintain my heart rate between 60-70% of my max bpm (estimated to be ~200 for my age) which i read is the optimal 'zone' for fat burning.

I dunno if it helps, but ive been losing weight steadily at around 1lb per week.

HOWEVER, since i started to run regularly 18 months ago, my resting heart rate has gone down from 88 to 64 at the last count 

Even if running didnt help with the fat loss, id still do it cos i actually really enjoy it, but after reading your comment about it actually being *counterproductive*, now im kinda scared!



> I have one cheat day on Fridays that includes alcohol and foods I dont normally eat.


Yea, ive started to allow myself a cheat day as well now after i was almost reduced to tears at one stage after denying myself anything sweet for almost 4 months

>>> i now have a Snickers bar once a week  Hmmmmmm....



> Thats pretty much it.


Thanks man - really appreciate you taking the time and effort to help out a n00b  - i already feel as though ive learnt loads from things you've said and suggested, and not just directly to me!


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## hackskii

Pook, I just collected some clinical studies on the benefits of low carb diets high fat diets compared to traditional diets and restricted diets.

It was amazing at my findings.

There was probably 100 of the studies which support fat loss and low carb eating.

I will post them here today.

It is on another board where I was battling a bunch of dudes on the very same issue.


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## Tatyana

pawfecshun said:


> I am new here, and am going through some of the "older" threads and am sitting here laughing my head off at the boob talk
> 
> I found it interesting Tatyana that green tea helps to lose weight, so I am off to Tesco to buy a load of it, even though I hate it, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I am in the minority on this forum, just going to the gym to stay toned and keep fit, I am not a body builder........runs for coat!! lol


Get the tablets, you have to drink SO much green tea for it to be effective!

SCOTT

Please email me a couple of those papers please.

x

T


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## hackskii

Tatyana said:


> SCOTT
> 
> Please email me a couple of those papers please.
> 
> x
> 
> T


It is on this thread Tatyana.

I have to admit there is compelling arguement for the two other guys against me.

They are really sharp.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=134241552


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## pookie69

hackskii said:


> http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=134241552


Woah - that's alotta information there - i briefly looked over it

>>> i shall make a point of reading it through more throughly when i have time - ie - when i have finished revision!

Having said that, i do plan on following your advice about upping fats as well as the diet recommendations you made (no more bananas! and a preworkout meal as opposed to a whey shake)

>>> im gonna strive to keep my total cals the same, but just swap out a few carb cals with fat cals and see how that affects things over the next month and how things compare to my current weight loss rate of 1lb/week

In order to make it a 'fair experiment' (lol) i'm gonna continue with the cardio. This should be fun! 

>>> I'll be sure to let you know how things turn out

Thanks again Scott.


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## hackskii

Sure.

Funny thing at the end of that thread it got really ugly.

I understand the calorie in vs calorie out and a deficit is required for weight loss.

Of course it can be done with cardio or diet or both.

Having more varied macronutrients make a diet more rounded.


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## hovis

WHERE CAN YOU GET GREEN TEA TABLETS??


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## invisiblekid

hovis said:


> WHERE CAN YOU GET GREEN TEA TABLETS??


Most online supplement stores do green tea extract. Personally, I like green tea, so I just drink it.

Sainsbury's do a really nice green tea with ginseng with takes off the bitterness and gives a slight rasberry taste. The key is not to leave it to brew too long


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## Peg

hackskii said:


> Oh, all that and zero cardio, cardio is not needed unless you just want to be in better cardiovascular shape.
> 
> I have been reading that some cardio is counterproductive in fat loss.
> 
> I will share that apon request.
> 
> Which is one of the myths in my book.


Do share about cardio being counterproductive to fat loss.

I can see how that could be. It would tell the body to store fat for future needs.

Particulars please and thank you.


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## hackskii

Peg said:


> Do share about cardio being counterproductive to fat loss.
> 
> I can see how that could be. It would tell the body to store fat for future needs.
> 
> Particulars please and thank you.


*Sure, this comes from another board, it makes sense to me.*



Rob said:


> doing cardio for fat loss is like shooting yourself in the foot.
> 
> Think about it... IF weight lifting makes you insulin sensitive then why would you do something of less intensity that makes you burn fat for fuel? all cardio does is send a signal that you are inefficient and it fixes this by lessening energy expenditure. Think muscle car to economy car. The muscle car with its massive engine will burn more fuel at idol than the economy car at full speed.
> 
> Another thing... intense exercise increases hgh levels and fuel expenditure for days... whereas cardio teaches the body to burn only when doing cardio.
> 
> Diet is how you lose fat.
> 
> Cardio is for training the heart and lungs
> 
> weight lifting is for strength and muscle building
> 
> strechting is for range and flexibility
> 
> Don't cross them up.
> 
> The reason people walk on treadmills is because they are either to stupid to diet right ro they are to lazy to exercise with the right intensity.
> 
> Oh, you can not use a treadmill to do tabats, It's imposible you can't sprint fast enough or slow down fast enough. Its a full throttle sprint... not a jog. Again real training requires intensity.
> 
> Now you understand why so many people turn to drugs? Because they are to pussy to workout right!


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## Tatyana

I do think too many peeps think cardio alone will take care of the fat.

Building muscle is the best way of burning fat.

However, the athletes that get the leanest are BBers, and most SWEAR by morning cardio on a mostly empty stomach (some say some black coffee, I do black coffee, fat burners, BCAAS, glutamine, and Tom's little trick a bit of carbs, mine in the form of grapefruit juice which is high in HMB).

HIIT is the best way to burn fat off, or high intensity interval training, so it is like RUN/sprint for 1-2 min, jog for 1-2 min, walk for 1-2 min or some combo of this.

This can also be done with a jump rope, on a bike or a X-trainer.

Doing this you only really need about 20-30 min.

If your fitness is not great, powerwalking is good. I do mix up my cardio. However, power walking has to be quite fast, best on a fairly steep incline, and all the big pros do this SQUEEZE the glutes thing with every stride.

Off season I do limit my cardio, I do save it for fat burning.

Being a cardio queen is counterproductive to fat loss, the body will adapt, and it is more likely you will need more and more, and there is the possibility of burning off muscle, which will burn fat of its own accord.

x

x

x

T


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## hackskii

You could always come over to my house Tat and we can do some HIIT cardio together


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## Tatyana

hackskii said:


> You could always come over to my house Tat and we can do some HIIT cardio together


You don't do cardio Scott. Training with me would probably kill you!



x

x

x

T


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## hackskii

Tatyana said:


> You don't do cardio Scott. Training with me would probably kill you!
> 
> 
> 
> x
> 
> x
> 
> x
> 
> T


No, I dont do very much at all if any.

I can drop weight without doing any cardio.

Also, been doing some fast running on my treadmill and it seems it will get some time getting used to.

My knees feel sore the next day.

I am not a runner and have terrible form.

But there is other cardio that I would be interested with you:rolleye11


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## andye

since starting this post im down to 32.5 i inch waist and 13% bodyfat. (down from over 25% and 40.5 inch waist.

ive dropped my weight from 15 stone down to 12 stone 6 lb

....my arms and chest are the same size as before though....cool!!

and i can safely say that clenbuterol and t3 worked best for me, cardio didnt improve things at all so i didnt do it all often. i had spells where i would do cardio solid for 2 weeks but that didnt burn fat any faster than just hard training and good eating.

i do however swear by cheat days. saturday for me, pizza hut for dinner , take away for tea then a few pints with the boys.

this all helped me get where i wanted


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## hackskii

You did all that with just fat burners?

I bet you dieted.............I bet you did.


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## andye

i did diet... your diet remember.

controlling insulin etc. the fat burners helped though ha ha


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## hackskii

andye said:


> i did diet... your diet remember.
> 
> controlling insulin etc. the fat burners helped though ha ha


Aye..... 

Man, you lost alot of inches.

That is very good, I took a bunch of clen today after reading your post and boy oh boy am I jittery:axe:


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## Gavin_90

hackskii could you give me a generalised eating plan for controlling insulin, just a days, would be fine. just to see the foods and timings.

thanks


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## hackskii

Eat more fiber, stick with lower glycemic index carbodhyrates, exercise and take in some fish oils.

Not to mention keep the meals a bit smaller and add in proteins and fats.

Dont forget the fiberous vegetables and fruits.


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## synthasize

im not sure if anyone else has tried it, but im currently taking mitotropin by Gaspari to lose bodyfat (was at 16% and dropped to 15% in one week). it comes with a book with info on your diet and training and food values, and it is seriously good! even without the supplement, the diet and training advice will help you lose fat whilst maintaining muscle, its all about carb cycling, and keeping the protein high, as well as getting what little fats you needs from good sources like flaxseed oil and almonds.

the gym where im at is pretty relaxed and the guys are really sound, so maybe if your gym is like this, see if they have any Mitotropin and ask to have a look at the book. they showed me it before i bought it and theyre always asking how im doing on it.


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## rockrats

Hackskii

Hey,

Could you help me please? Cardio is not my strong point and i'm struggling to lose weight/fat. I'm currently 22% bf, 6'2", 14.5stone

Can you PM me a typical days food plan please? I tried to PM you but didn't know how to do it lol!!

Thanks in advance

Martin.


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## donone46

I'm in the same boat, been training on and off for years, had multiple stomach problems and subsequent ops to remove adhesions, gall bladder and appendix and am just now coming off very strong painkillers which have left my body somewhat of a mess, my vitals are: age 28, 5ft 8", 16stone 6pounds, 39% body fat. People are amazed when I tell them how much I weigh, I carry it all over not just stomach etc.

So cutting to the chase, I really want to overhaul my body, preferably in a natural way as I've been taking too many pre-scribed pharmaceuticals for years now and just want to feel clean and level headed instead of down and spaced.

I've read so much info on this board, books, mags etc and find the wealth of info overwhelming. Basically I just want to get a diet that as a full time worker I don't have to worry about getting up at 5am each morning to prepare. I'm totally aware of how important diet is and was an amateur boxer in my younger years but I'm not looking at getting my 6 pack back just, eventually, a healthy body fat, a pair of jeans that don't go at the crotch through my legs rubbing together and feel confident going swimming without having a nagging in the back of my mind that I feel like I've got moobs (which I have!)

Any advise, support etc would be very gratefully received, if only to help me sort the wheat from the chaff as it were from all this advise available at my finger tips!

Cheers

Don

p.s. I'm currently gyming it 3 times a week, upper body - chest press on an incline & flyes, assisted pull up & chin up, upright row & front raises and bicep & tricep extension. Lower body - leg press, stiff legged dead lift and lunges. Both workouts pre-ceeded by 1km on rowing machine.


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## Wevans2303

1.DNP

2. Clen

3. ECA

Screw otc fat burners.


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## XRichHx

hackskii said:


> Eat more fiber, stick with lower glycemic index carbodhyrates, exercise and take in some fish oils.
> 
> Not to mention keep the meals a bit smaller and add in proteins and fats.
> 
> Dont forget the fiberous vegetables and fruits.


I'm loosing 1.5 lb a week ish based on this kind advice.


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## Pictor

DNP

T3

Clen

ECA

Yohimbine


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## xpower

Big Ste said:


> DNP
> 
> T3
> 
> Clen
> 
> ECA
> 
> Yohimbine


Pretty much agree,but would use UWS as it has Yohimbine in it + other goodies


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