# Your opinions on steroids in sports.



## Rodders (Jun 19, 2008)

What are your thoughts about athletes on roids. not is it a good or bad thing but what percentage are on them? Is it humanly possible to run 100m in the time that Bolt did this weekend?


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

pretty much the advantage thay give you if anyone is on them then everyone has to be.

imagine having a man competing against a woman x100


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## woodscreative (Aug 3, 2009)

A grey area for me. I don't personally have a problem with people taking gear to get ripped for weight lifting or body building for aesthetic reasons, but when fighting I just think it's so dangerous. Remember Tim 'bad shape' Sylvia. He got his forearm snapped against Mir UFC48 and was caught taking gear at UFC44. I don't know if this was a coincidence or not.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

like it or not steriods are a part of top level sport and thats not going to change unless something better comes along (it will probably be gene therapy) the only way to make it fair is to allow everyone to take them and in most sports thay turn a blind eye to it by only testing on the day or week of the event which is easy to pass.

i have seen pics of gsp and rashed evens were thay actuelly have gyno and just look at the bone grouth in tito ortiz's skull (hgh not roids) and that before you get onto brock lesner.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

I know steroids are illegal and have some crazy side effects, but at the end of the day, performance enhancers should be checked out. Personally, I don't believe there's anything wrong in taking anything which allows your body to reach and maintain the best level it can.

When you start taking drugs that allow to exceed your own limitations, then that's where the line should be drawn.

What other sort of performance enhancers are there?


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## Razorstorm (Aug 6, 2009)

I think when drugs are involved. Sport becomes "who has the biggest stick" situation. Who is taking the best drugs and the most.

Personally I dont think thats what a sport should be about and natural sportsman should be respected 10 fold over their drug abusing buddies.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

Imy said:


> I know steroids are illegal and have some crazy side effects, but at the end of the day, performance enhancers should be checked out. Personally, I don't believe there's anything wrong in taking anything which allows your body to reach and maintain the best level it can.
> 
> When you start taking drugs that allow to exceed your own limitations, then that's where the line should be drawn.
> 
> What other sort of performance enhancers are there?


steriods are not illegal in most countrys including the uk and theres peptites like hgh igf insaline ect that are no steriods but have steriod like effects.


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## Razorstorm (Aug 6, 2009)

toxo said:


> steriods are not illegal in most countrys including the uk and theres peptites like hgh igf insaline ect that are no steriods but have steriod like effects.


Growth hormones?

I read this stuff can really cause you problems when your older.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

Razorstorm said:


> Growth hormones?
> 
> I read this stuff can really cause you problems when your older.


well synphetic hgh has not been around very long so theres no way of really knowing we dont really know the long term effects of steriods yet.

its basically responsable for regenerating most of the cells in your body so infact its sort of like an anti ageing drug. it does make everything in your body grow thats why the bodybuilders who use tones of it have massive distended guts because there internal organs including there hearts are growing. also it makes your bones grow hence why tito is looking more and more like a caveman. probably the worst side effect is it makes the joints grow quicker then the rest of the skeleton and i have heard horror storys of lads having to have there elbows growned down.










this guy is a good example of what happens if you abuse growth hormone.


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## Razorstorm (Aug 6, 2009)

He looks like a deformed tree with a very small pouch


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

Razorstorm said:


> Growth hormones?
> 
> I read this stuff can really cause you problems when your older.


Are those banned by sports commissions and federations? You have my attention all of a sudden...:rofl:


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

there banned by most sporting bodys


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## 1927 (Apr 30, 2008)

:laugh: that pic is fookin hanging ... what a mess

This is a subject i can never get my head around, surly all professional sports drug test ??? when i see well built athletes i admit the thought of "surly they are on the gear" springs to mind but then i think "dont they get tested" ??

i do understand that you cant test for growth?? think thats rights


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## woodscreative (Aug 3, 2009)

Sex & music... sorry those were mood enhancers not performance enhancers!! LOL.


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## woodscreative (Aug 3, 2009)

Looks like a turd that swallowed a g-string!!


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## djkt (Oct 8, 2008)

woodscreative said:


> Looks like a turd that swallowed a g-string!!


:laugh::rofl:


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## Rodders (Jun 19, 2008)

Lots of good comments. Would be interested in seeing those pics of GSP and Evans.

So it seems that people think Bolt is on the juice or some kind of sunstance that enhances his chance of running at that amazing speed?


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

Thats Dave Palumbo he posts a lot on a bodybuilding site some of the advice ive read him give is shocking

GH & other peptides are a lot harder to be detected by sporting bodies (i know a lot of athletes who use them for this reason) as they are jabbed sub Q instead of IM the hormone is dispersed differently in the body making it much harder to detect, ive heard you have to drug tested specifically for GH or whatever hormone you have jabbed within an hour of jabbing it or its pretty much undetectable (by most standards anyway - im sure the olympic commitee has better ways of detecting of detecting pro hormones


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

Jumbo Palumbo, what a tool, he does look pretty awful...

Didn't realise GH was undetectable..


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## Rampage-Gibson (Jun 22, 2009)

i can't belive some of the shit i have just read theres no ****ing debate here steroids are wrong!!!!!

sport is competition and if you try to enhance your performance with drugs why compete to begin with?

I can't ****ing belive some of you think its ok


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Turf......gstring....ha.......nasty.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

rampage-gibson said:


> i can't belive some of the shit i have just read theres no ****ing debate here steroids are wrong!!!!!
> 
> Sport is competition and if you try to enhance your performance with drugs why compete to begin with?
> 
> I can't ****ing belive some of you think its ok


we love roids!!!!!!


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

Rampage-Gibson said:


> i can't belive some of the shit i have just read theres no ****ing debate here steroids are wrong!!!!!
> 
> sport is competition and if you try to enhance your performance with drugs why compete to begin with?
> 
> I can't ****ing belive some of you think its ok


Like I said earlier, I don't think "performance enhancers" are right; anything that pushes your body to levels it shouldn't reach are wrong.

But to kick start your body into reaching your full potential is fine. Steroids tend to push you over the limit, but there are other drugs that are fine.

It's like saying metabolism boosters shouldn't be used when trying to drop weight as it gives you an unfair advantage. I know it sound stupid, but that's really the other side of the coin.


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## 1927 (Apr 30, 2008)

Rampage-Gibson said:


> i can't belive some of the shit i have just read theres no ****ing debate here steroids are wrong!!!!!
> 
> sport is competition and if you try to enhance your performance with drugs why compete to begin with?
> 
> I can't ****ing belive some of you think its ok


calm down fella .... sounds like a bit of roid rage kickin in there :angry:


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## AndyMulz (Apr 6, 2009)

Rampage-Gibson said:


> i can't belive some of the shit i have just read theres no ****ing debate here steroids are wrong!!!!!
> 
> sport is competition and if you try to enhance your performance with drugs why compete to begin with?
> 
> I can't ****ing belive some of you think its ok


I have to agree .


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

Basically, sport = money = fame = people who do whatever whatever it takes.

Let's be honest you see atheltes who have great builds who train their arses off and people love watching them, both for looks and because they are good at what they do - take Tim Sylvia most people hated him and part of it was because Americans etc like to look at well toned GSP types and in my opnion, I did not post in the thread about GSP being on drugs as everyone seemed to love him and could not believe it was conceivable that he "would take something" and my personal thought where WTF he is either very lucky as he picked up martial arts at an early age and has the genetics of a top flight athelete/bodybuilder whatever and could not be arsed getting into one.

Growth Hormone is the drug of choice amongst MMA'ers and no most events DO NOT test for anything and when they do like atheltics etc they seem to let people pass or not test em even when they are clear abusers, no people who not run as fast and would look "normal" and then who would be interested in atheletics, but where do we draw the line on a performance enhance - ban Lucozade???.

I do not think a non user should be placed against a user but then you can't test for everything and their will still be users trying to get one over a)coz not many people admit re shame etc to taking em b)as people still want to be top of the pile, so will still "cheat".

The sporting world would be very very different (look at pre 1960's) without drugs....look at the build of footballers now compared to the 1960's - I end my case, thank you and goodnight:laugh:.


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## Rodders (Jun 19, 2008)

Si-K said:


> Basically, sport = money = fame = people who do whatever whatever it takes.
> 
> Let's be honest you see atheltes who have great builds who train their arses off and people love watching them, both for looks and because they are good at what they do - take Tim Sylvia most people hated him and part of it was because Americans etc like to look at well toned GSP types and in my opnion, I did not post in the thread about GSP being on drugs as everyone seemed to love him and could not believe it was conceivable that he "would take something" and my personal thought where WTF he is either very lucky as he picked up martial arts at an early age and has the genetics of a top flight athelete/bodybuilder whatever and could not be arsed getting into one.
> 
> ...


good post.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

cheers, forgot to say re non user versus user - how would you know if your fighting abilities where street applicable if you only fought non users??..

Doctors have told me 1 in 3 lads between 25 and 40 in Liverpool that they test or treat for whatever reason are steriod "abusers" in one form or another (they quizzed me as I was 15 stone steriod free when weight lifting (old stylee abrievated training (not looking like a bodybuilder tho  ) - so if I train against people who are non users stay an underfeated fighter (for example) get in a street fight against a "user" an get my arsed kicked - then how good was my training?, you gotta train for worst case scenarios which includes someone who trains more than you (re roids or not) someone who is alot stronger than you (roids or not) etc etc...and as above odds are, if I am unliucky enough to end up in a street fight -(my last 2 I have been out numbered 3 to 1) then odds are at least one of them is a user......STICK AND MOVE!!!!!:yes::laugh:


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

Rampage-Gibson said:


> i can't belive some of the shit i have just read theres no ****ing debate here steroids are wrong!!!!!
> 
> sport is competition and if you try to enhance your performance with drugs why compete to begin with?
> 
> I can't ****ing belive some of you think its ok


bro training is performance enhancing so is the correct diet and taking creating even making sure you get a goodnights sleep, that may sound odd but back in the victorian days it was considered unsportsman like to train for an event. like it or not if you want to compete at a high level of say mma then you have a massive handy cap if you dont use roids as im pretty sure there all on them to some extent or another, i mean come on there training 3x a day 5-7 times a week its just not possible to train like that without steriods.

morally i dont really have a problem with top athletes taking them as there just part of sport now, you have to do your road work eat your greens and take your roids.


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## woodscreative (Aug 3, 2009)

I switched channels once to find a footy game playing form the early 60's in black & white. I was watching it and I honestly thought it was a comedy..... it wasn't. I couldn't stop laughing at how bad it was and it was like Brazil vs aswell!


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## AndyMulz (Apr 6, 2009)

toxo said:


> bro training is performance enhancing so is the correct diet and taking creating even making sure you get a goodnights sleep, that may sound odd but back in the victorian days it was considered unsportsman like to train for an event. like it or not if you want to compete at a high level of say mma then you have a massive handy cap if you dont use roids as im pretty sure there all on them to some extent or another, i mean come on there training 3x a day 5-7 times a week its just not possible to train like that without steriods.
> 
> morally i dont really have a problem with top athletes taking them as there just part of sport now, you have to do your road work eat your greens and take your roids.


Call me old fashioned but at 6ft 7 17.5 stonne and in great shape. I believe hard work and the right diet will over come any use of "roids". Each to their own i guess but il stick with my method . If we were to accept steriods as the norm then were does the buck stop .

Im still sticking with Gibby i think its a unfair advantage , the key word being "unfair" id rather lose with my head held high than win knowing i cheated the sport.

My opinion mind.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

Si-K said:


> The sporting world would be very very different (look at pre 1960's) without drugs....look at the build of footballers now compared to the 1960's - I end my case, thank you and goodnight:laugh:.


I'm not sure how many footballers have been taking steroids. =S

Just looks like lots of time in the gym to me.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

like i said if you want to compete at an elite level then your probably going to find that most of your opponents are going to be using steriods. its not really an unfair advantage when everyones using them the guys who would rather loose then take steriods are the ones not at an elite level so theres not really a problem there. its just a part of sport theres days im afraid.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

Imy said:


> I'm not sure how many footballers have been taking steroids. =S
> 
> Just looks like lots of time in the gym to me.


i would guess most of them of on steriods as thay dont have a problem diving (no moral objection) and are off there nuts on coke and booze every weekend if the papers are anything to go by (so no health concerns) so why would you risk your 100 grand a week by not taking them?


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

toxo said:


> i would guess most of them of on steriods as thay dont have a problem diving (no moral objection) and are off there nuts on coke and booze every weekend if the papers are anything to go by (so no health concerns) so why would you risk your 100 grand a week by not taking them?


I might just have to take steroids I think.

I know the FA/FIFA don't test for them, but if it's common knowledge or at least being rumoured that they are, then they should be tested.


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

f**k steroids

they are cheats, they dont just help you push yourself, they push you stupidly and many times too far, you cant compare to supplements

Any one that takes drugs to enhance themselves because they are lazy or dont push themselves in the gym are clowns. What's the point in doing it, if its not actually you doing it, especially considering all the side effects that go with steroids. I would rather lose by giving 100 percent of hard work than win because I used steroids.

For me personally, I would rather work my arse off in the gym and get what I deserve through training and a good diet, a few supplements that help a bit .. rather than do a drug that gives you rewards without the hard work but also come with big flaws.

I also dont like pro hormones and tesosterone boosters alot either, Steroids for body building are ok because its not competition, otherwise the drug is for cheats most of the time

Look at GSP, dude has such great respect for martial arts, greg jackson, rashad evans, keith jardine, jon jones, zahabbi have all come out and said how hard he trains, he pushes himself even when helping others prepare for a fight. Yet there are people who cant believe him so accuse him of steroid use.

Also, there is a footballer called Soloman Kalou, he looks crazy, but you can tell, his genes have allowed him to have a great body. They spend more time in the gym, are properly looked after, if you look back at the 60's, Harry Redknapp said footballers used to go binge drinking and go on drug runs, footballers dont do that, they have also added supplements and proper diets.

If you look at Dana Whites stance on drugs a few years back, you msut be out your mind to think he would allow steroids in the UFC. Also, the nevada state commision oppose it strongle.

Also, steroids are on the Football Associations watch list for drugs, if you take them and arent for actual medical purposes you face suspension and fine

Also, Usain Bolt is just a phenom, it must be in his genes, I dont think he's on steroids, do you not think the olympic committee would have done tests on him. I think he without a doubt takes supplements, but nothing illegal.

I CAN UNDERSTAND SUPPLEMENT USE, however if we are going to accept people using stupid drugs like steroids to better themselves, we might aswell let people dress up in proper iron man costumes or let them attach chain saws to their hands. It's just stupid, and I think its what idiots and very low esteemed folk use because they cant get the right mentality to work.

Steroids are for cheaters, people looking for an easy option , people who dont believe in their own ability and lack esteem and the right mentality


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## Rampage-Gibson (Jun 22, 2009)

toxo said:


> like i said if you want to compete at an elite level then your probably going to find that most of your opponents are going to be using steriods. its not really an unfair advantage when everyones using them *the guys who would rather loose then take steriods are the ones not at an elite level so theres not really a problem there*. its just a part of sport theres days im afraid.


i see what your saying but for the guys who would rather keep their balls from looking like rasins theres such a thing as hard work, you can't sugar coat the fact that its wrong

what your basically saying is it's ok because someone else does it:no: thats just pathetic


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## Rampage-Gibson (Jun 22, 2009)

jeevan said:


> f**k steroids
> 
> they are cheats, they dont just help you push yourself, they push you stupidly and many times too far, you cant compare to supplements
> 
> ...


I agree and people with such mentality do not belong in sport anyway


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## AndyMulz (Apr 6, 2009)

Good post by Jeevan there.

It reminds me of the clubbing drug scene back when everyone was on everything and clubbing we had a million diffrent arguments why it isnt wrong to take them and then when you packed it all in the younger generation were using the exact same arguments and had no intention of listening to any arguments of personal experience.

In my opinion its just ignorance and being niave to say you cant achieve your goals without steriods. Its all hard work and id rather be a half decent fighter on my own merit than be a little better by bending the rules to suite me.

As for football players being on steriods i obviously cant vouch for all of them but i reckon it just comes down to progress in the science of sport. In the 60s i dont think they would have had diet and nutrition experts aswell as coaches who specialised in individual training routines , its just progress in what people know will benefit the body and that argument just seems like more ignorance to support your theory that taking steriods is okay with no proof.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

jeevan said:


> f**k steroids
> 
> they are cheats, they dont just help you push yourself, they push you stupidly and many times too far, you cant compare to supplements
> 
> ...


Good post.


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

Andy Mulz

Not name dropping, but I am friends with a few pro footballers, and even when they buy medicine they have to call up the doctor and make sure the ingredients are ok. They have to be in the gym a lot and have a strict diet they have to follow. With the money available to them, the guys can buy the best food and supplements, and have so much time to spend at the gym, especailly considering when your job is to stay fit.

If you go on footballing forums, people always complain about players not being part of the community because in the 60s. 70s and 80s, you would find players at the pub after a game getting completey hammered. There were also stories of how footballers would do drugs the night before a game aswell.

It's progression, people now understand the body, food, training, supplements much more now, and know how to get the best out of people the right way.


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## djkt (Oct 8, 2008)

Man it feels like we've had this same discussion about 8 times over the last year on this forum!

Yes steroids are banned under most sporting regulation bodies.

Yes some athletes will always risk juicing to enhance performance.

Yes some see it as cheating, but your always going to get people who differ in opinion.

Some will get/have been caught.

And we'll never know for sure who is or isn't.

But I think we should not accuse!

At the end of the day its an athletes decision, its on their head, and if there going to do it they will.

Steroids are a part of sport, both low league and professionally, as long as there's some one willing to risk it, and people developing new drugs, then steroids in sport are hear to stay, whether we like it or not!

Best thing you can do is train hard, fight harder, and you'll come out on top!

:happy:

Oh and go watch Bigger, Stronger, Faster....... It's an eye opener.

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=X6FP7M1A


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## 1927 (Apr 30, 2008)

Have to disagree with the footballer comments big time, you cant compare todays footballers to those of the 60's cause back then they didnt have a clue

you only have to go back to the early 80's when footballers were on the piss regular + smokinh 20 a day and very very few paid any attention to diet, cant even imagine how they were back in the 60's + 70's .....

although i cany get my head around Imys comment that they dont test footballers for steroids ???? is that a fact Imy ???


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

So Brocks not on steds then???.

Even on steriods, pro hormones etc you still have to work your bollocks off - you do not take them and end up a super figure...don't get me wrong I am not condoning any of this - I just think alot of you are very naive....to say bodybuilding is not a sport and footballers are not coked up half the time, pissed and using drugs to heal injuries etc quicker ....do not forget the UFC like the IOC like the UFC all drug test and all other professional associations - appears to me they weed out a few people every now and again to make it look like they are so against drugs but imho Toxo is on the money - at an elite level drug use in one form or another is standard practice - train your tits off then take pro hormones for 1 cycle then you will realise the different (and pro hormones are the watered down version) BJ Penn against Matt Hughes trained once a day because he was getting burnt out "training the way a professional fighter trains" - now that his a honest genteic averageperson fighting at an elite level look at his build, look how he gasses out, Matt Hughes daily cardio session lasted longer than BJ's rolling session - Look at BJ now look at Matt, how is Matt not over training when he trains 2hrs x 3 = 6 hours a day and holds all that muscle and drops so much fat and can still fight like he has not had to cut weight? and not look and act dead....oh yeah, sorry another one with amazing genetics....the average person will not look and perform like GSP without assistance - you can get close but the buggers in the detail...not just solid hard work, rest and nutrition....especially if you want to be that way for years.


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## djkt (Oct 8, 2008)

Si-K said:


> So Brocks not on steds then???.
> 
> Even on steriods, pro hormones etc *you still have to work your bollocks off - you do not take them and end up a super figure...*don't get me wrong I am not condoning any of this - I just think alot of you are very naive....*to say bodybuilding is not a sport and footballers are not coked up half the time, pissed and using drugs to heal injuries etc quicker *....do not forget the UFC like the IOC like the UFC all drug test and all other professional associations - appears to me they weed out a few people every now and again to make it look like they are so against drugs but imho Toxo is on the money - *at an elite level drug use in one form or another is standard practice - train your tits off then take pro hormones for 1 cycle then you will realise the different* (and pro hormones are the watered down version) BJ Penn against Matt Hughes trained once a day because he was getting burnt out "training the way a professional fighter trains" - now that his a honest genteic averageperson fighting at an elite level look at his build, look how he gasses out, *Matt Hughes daily cardio session lasted longer than BJ's rolling session - Look at BJ now look at Matt, how is Matt not over training when he trains 2hrs x 3 = 6 hours a day and holds all that muscle and drops so much fat and can still fight like he has not had to cut weight? and not look and act dead*....oh yeah, sorry another one with amazing genetics....*the average person will not look and perform like GSP without assistance - you can get close but the buggers in the detail...not just solid hard work, rest and nutrition*....especially if you want to be that way for years.


This. Good post Si.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

For what it's worth here's my opinion. If roids can be detected then they should be. It is cheating. It's one of the few things that are black and White. Yes We can talk about creatine etc etc but lets keep this basic. Surely we all want to see sportsmen compete on a level thang. May the best man win.

Gsp to me looks like he is using. But then I'm one the few that ain't so keen on the guy. So maybe I'm biased against him. I also have a mate that has always had a physique like gsp's and I know he has never taken anything he doesn't even train and he's a White dude.

I've used creatine when I've been in competition because all the guys I'm fighting are usually 20 yrs younger than me. So I'm no better than Shamrock I suppose. Ho hum.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

cheers Dan...

Man reading it back I feel like I am condoning sted use - when all I am really trying to do is open a few peoples eyes....your right we have covered this so many times and the naive (imo) will always say nutrition has advanced and yes this is true - I see it and research it everyday as part of my job , but this is unfortunatley what a sted user is going to say when defending himself/herself as they wanna be a winner without "cheating" - hey my avatar was Royce Gracie till Marc decided I looked like Rodney Trotter - do I believe he was on drugs??? well I do not know - if he did he done it to heal injuries not become an adonis (sp)...I liked him because of the fact he was (what I thought) a small average guy teaching muscle bounce jocks a lesson:laugh:  :baffled::shocked:

Look at rugby players as an example now look at them in the 80's (and bear in mind at this point many of my uncles played at elite level in the 80's), the game is now harder, faster, rougher and most players have probably 2 stone of solid muscle more than back then - that's a hell of a lot of genetically gifted dudes hugging each other - how do they not get injured so much and how do they recover so quick?....must be the new Kre Alkalyn...it is very good and has advanced so much more than the mono.


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

I think Lesnar was on steroids, but he stopped a long time ago in my opinion.

Bodybuilding is as much a sport as sync swimming

Also, regarding footballers and drugs, they have random testing aswell as normal tests. Their clubs also give drug tests as they face punishment aswell. The percentalge of footballers who do drugs and stuff will be really low aswell. They dont usually use drugs to heal injuries because the game is a team thing, they usually have physio and doctor advice, and that's why players are out for so long. The only drugs they can do are medically prescribed. I know this from great sources.

There was a study a few years back that said about 200 out of 10,000 tests showed the use of performance enhancers, and none were in the premier league.

The FA do test for drugs, look at PadDY kennys treatment for taking cough medicine !! There will be of course players who are on drugs, but the large majority are just normal people who have normal beliefs that drugs are not needed. Im sure most footballers, defo the ones I know, respect the position they are in, and wont risk their great lives for a stupid drug. The larger majority of drug users are those that struggle in life, and / or have always been bought up with drugs. That would very very very very rarely happen in football. There will of course be idiots such as Roman Bednar, Mutu, Bosnich.

http://www.thefa.com/GetIntoFootball/~/media/Files/PDF/Get%20into%20Football/DopingControlProgrammeRegulations09.ashx/DopingControlProgrammeRegulations09.pdf

Also, you dont have to work your socks off for as long, and in a few instances I have seen, you dont have to work your socks off. There are so many people out there with great bodies simply because they have learnt how to have a good diet, use good supplements and train properly. I've seen some hench ass white guys, who some might assume would do drugs, but you know they dont. I've seen some black folk have crazy bodies with a little bit of work, so dont use your poor sarcasm to discredit my genes argument.

Regarding Matt Hughes, I think he must have been on something, however, it could simply be a gene trait that he can work harder. Every person is different, you will find that a lot of Hawaiians / samoans are naturally strong but have low cardio, and because of Island life, they have grown up with a more relaxed mentality. I remember seeing that on the discovery channel. I dont like using the word average person because we dont know DNA strength traits.

what I am not saying is people dont do steroids, every sport has people that do steroids, you mention rugby, there have been great break throughs in science and technology and techniques that now allow players to play more games at a higher pace than they could in the 80s. It's all down to a person, a person with great genes might just be lazy and too relaxed to put the work in to get the body they can. With all the modern techniques and sciene showing us new ways in recovery and development, people can get better and better without drug use. In the 80s it was likely that a lot of footballers would retire at 30, no one ever played until their mid 30s. Now you get players who are aged 40, simply because of development in techniques, science, technology.

It's like wondering how on earth computers are so cool now, where as back in the 1980's they were very slow, and had limited capablities, but like sport, they have advanced which have allowed more programs, large hard drives, quicker processers etc. , because of the fact that you learn new and better things over time.

"oh yeah, sorry another one with amazing genetics...." brilliant, ever person is different, he may be on steroids he may not, but no need for your stupid sarcasm, it makes your argument look childish. I have acknowledged steroid use, and added another proven factor to the argument, that you decide to satire.

I just believe the large majority of sportsmen are good, smart, clean, sensible people who know drugs are bad and apprecaite the position they are in , and see drug use as cheating and dont use them. I believe there are a small minority who are just idiotic. They are percieved as being evil brainless idiots who only care about money and themselves and have no respect for their sport, which is just a stupid assumption. I believe the majority are good people. I can only hope that I am not the only one with a view like this.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

1927 said:


> although i cany get my head around Imys comment that they dont test footballers for steroids ???? is that a fact Imy ???


There was a big uproar a few months ago when UEFA (I think) wanted to implement random blood tests and such for footballers. Whether the debate was on the "Random" or the "blood test" part, I don't know, as I only skimmed through the article, thinking "I don't do drugs, it won't affect me".

I'm not 100% certain, but this is what I've gathered.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

thats not stupid sarcasimn - I was quoting what every mis informed person says to me on a daily basis "he's can't be juicing he is an athelte and does not believe in that he has great genetics"(maybe I should have put speach marks around it) anyhoo, just because you know some people who do x does not prove/disprove anything....I know lots of people, rugby players, professional fighters and footballers and bodybuilders - I know the tricks and I know what "average" people, ironically called hardgainers are capable of, I too have had friends/family who would swear on their mothers graves they are not users and years late say yeah I was.

Have you read beyond brawn? an excellent book imo - based on bodybuilding from old school routines before steriods where invented, I can't remember exact figures and am not anal enough to hunt for the page but basically, about 2% of the population have excellent genetics - i.e they appear to look at weights and grow muscle with minimal fat - what I am trying to say is it appears in these elite sports their are lots of "gifted" people about - we all have are views and as Dan sensibly put we can speculation etc but we can never prove much (all though if I sat down with some friends and colleagues right now we could run off a least 20 names in MMA on growth hormone)- even when people are cleared or not - we are sensible enough to know we can't trust the media:yes:..so let's all just agree to disagree...coz in our minds we all ythink we have a grip on it - half of what you (Jeevan) put did not make sense to me (from what I have seen, know or maybe it was the way I read it) and I can't be arsed nit picking the points out - as I'm sure half of mine probably had you confused and scratching your head...at this point I have tried in my previous post to be as honest as possible from what I know, have seen and think I am informed about and was just trying to inform other people - some people will believe me some will not (such is life).:happy:


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

Imy

The argument was about blood testing, and the fact the doping agency wanted each player to inform a rep. of his whereabouts once a day.

SI-K, You could of said that, because it seemed you were just having a little dig at me. On a sidenote, sarcasm isnt good in an argument. I learnt that the hard way on my debate team. My friends have taken many drugs tests, and call up their club doctors when getting some spray from boots !! I dont know about your friends / family, I have come up with my friends and we tell one another everything, so I trust them as we neve rlie to one another, and some of the things they have done, would make drugs look minute

Unfortunately you dont know what average people are capable of because the "average" person will change its criteria.

No , i've not read that book, will try and get a copy though. There are a lot of gifted people due to their genes, however, with the progression of science, technology and knowledge, more "average" people can better themselves. That can't be argued.

It's been said for years that folk on Island life are much more relaxed and have good health genes, we know that BJ Penn is actually quite lazy and doesnt push himself to give it his all, he always comes up with excuses. If GSP takes proper ice baths, has massages, and uses electrodes on his body, then he can work as hard as all his camp partner say.

You cant actually use the 2 percent have excellent genes because there are more and more mutations, so that number wont stay at that.

I think it was the way you read it, I tried to make myself as clear as possible 

We will have to leave it as we could both come up with points, I believe you have used your knowledge to give your honest view, and I hope you realise I have done the same.

I just believe the large majority of sportsmen are good, smart, clean, sensible people who know drugs are bad and apprecaite the position they are in , and see drug use as cheating and dont use them. I believe there are a small minority who are just idiotic. They are percieved as being evil brainless idiots who only care about money and themselves and have no respect for their sport, which is just a stupid assumption. I believe the majority are good people. I can only hope that I am not the only one with a view like this.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

ok i'll bite, ive done quite a lot of research into the use of AAS (advanced anabolic steroids) not so much on the psychology behind it but more what they do and dont do.

There are a hell of a lot of misconceptions about steroid use

Seriously watch the link dan mentioned (jeevan im not pointing you out here - this is a recommendation for anyone was thinks steroids will kill you and make your heart explode)

Its a very good watch and a good eye opener as to why the general public (general as in have very little knowledge in the area and beleive what they read and believe what the media tells them to believe)

Drugs are in sport - Fact!

Drugs will always be in sport - Fact

Are sportsmen wrong for taking them? In my honest opinion....no

The amount of pressure on a sportsmen at the top of there game to perform, to stay injury free, to see out the season (whatever field there in) and stay at the peak of physical and mental fitness is immense .

Who would you blame the sportman/woman for giving in to the pressure or the media for ridiculing the player/fighter/whatever for having a crap season/run of fights/whatever

There is no level playing field in sport, every single person is out to be the best they can be, what about Tiger woods he had corrective surgery on his eye IIRC, to see clearer/further is this not cheating? would this not be on a Par (best pun ever) with a sprinter taking steroids to increase there speed?


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

I will watch it, I feel I know quite a bit on steroids as one of my cousins is a doctor and educated me on them when younger when I got my first weight set to make sure I was acting properly.

Tiger Woods will use his better vision in every day life, and that's not really cheating as it wasnt at all that big of a deal, if he decided to get a robotic arm to improve his tecnique, power and shot then that would be cheating. Tiger Woods said that the holes looked bigger and he often couldnt tell the distance in every day cases such as driving either. Add that to the fact that many players on the tour did it as they made living easier so that in normal activities they didnt have to wear contacts or glasses, each year thousands of people decide to get laser surgery.

Him getting surgery is on par (which was a great pun marc), with taking supplements

Before Lasik, without contacts: Tiger was severely nearsighted and could see no more than about one foot in front of his face, according to Dr. Mark Whitten.

Before Lasik, with contacts: Tiger's vision was excellent-- 20/15--as long as he wore his contact lenses. The only difficulty was keeping them clean on windy days.

Post Lasik: Since he had the procedure on Oct. 1, 1999, Tiger says everything--especially the hole and the ball--looks bigger. He won the first five tour events he played in after the surger

What happened to Tiger was actually a correctment on his eyes, as he already had contacts at that strength they just were akward. Had they decided to go a step futher then that's an enhancment.

Vision is usually seen as a basic tool required, ... glasses and contact lenses should be cheating ? shouldnt people wearing gloves or knee pads be cheating ? shouldnt wearing a helmet be cheating ? shouldnt wiping a ball after its wet be cheating ? some of these wont be true by the way

What I do know is you trying to compare someone mutilating their body with steriods to achieve something that is not humanly possible is not the same as someone achieving 20/15 vision with contacts, glasses, or lasik. I even have friends that have 20/15natural vision. We are not comparing apples to apples here.

Also, LASIK jsut corrects your visiblity skills,they dont actually improve your skill and technique. where performance enhancers dont improve your visibility, though they do unfairly boost your skill and technique.

A runner takes drugs to help them run, they dont think about what happens after, when they finish running, the drugs are for then. They have many other options, the use of steroid just pushes them futher ahead unfairly, and steroid use is usually taken to add that bite.

EGDAR DAVIDS - used glasses on the football pitch, would that be cheating ? (he did actually test positive for PEDs)

If a player didnt have the best hearing, and could hear but not that well, and decided to add a hearing aid, would that be cheating ?

This has raised a large ethical debate, that I think we should actually ignore lol


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

I would blame both, I would hope the person would realise that the media are there jsut to stir trouble, and you need to rise above it. The media are jsut arseholes.

There is a lot of pressure of course, but at the end of the day, the players safety and health comes first in the majority of cases

Injuries are natural occurences, and most clubs usually have good physios and doctors to help, you can always get new techniques to improve your body , such as ice baths and massages, I do blame players for taking drugs if they are supported well.

.. athletes are meant to compete with one another to be the best they can be, not the best they can be after taking performance enhancments that actually boost their main talent.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

jeevan said:


> I would blame both, *I would hope the person would realise that the media are there jsut to stir trouble, and you need to rise above it.* The media are jsut arseholes.
> 
> There is a lot of pressure of course, but at the end of the day, the players safety and health comes first in the majority of cases


Its easy to say 'rise above the media' but in practice it is impossible they are everywhere, if they want you to think black is white, and they say it enough you will start to believe it.

What really annoys me is the british media in particular related to athletes (track and field) i was watching the athletics last year a guy had just finished running (cant remember who it was now) and the british reporter went over to him straight after his race - and the conversation went

'Great race, very well done what do you think of dwaine chambers being allowed back into the british olympic team after he tested positive for drugs!!!!

What he was actually saying was lets not let the british public forget that 4 years ago someone got caught taking perfomance enhancing steroids and we are never going to let anyone forget it.

This in itself brings a negativity to not only the athlete (should he really be pursocuted (sp?) for the rest of his life, but to sportsmen in general, making a lot of people immediatly think, jesus he ran fast he's got to be on steroids


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

I hate the media,especially tabloids they have no morals .. if the queen was to have a heart attack in public and her dress ripped open, they would publish pictures. (errr, at that thought) .. they love over hyping news, a reason why I hate Piers Morgan

you can acknowledge the media, but you can ignore them

I know its hard, but at the end of the day, the media doesnt control the mind of the strong, these athletes need to have a strong mentality .. unfortnately many dont and those are the ones that screw up.

I think its good that we dont forget that Chambers did take drugs, it makes us realise how he screwed himself over, but I do hate the medias antics

Hitler painted the picture that the Aryan race in his view was the best race, and that if you werent blonde hair and blue eyed, you werent as good as the superior race .. he said that many many times .. yet people were strong enough to realise that wasnt true


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## woodscreative (Aug 3, 2009)

So are pain killers wrong?


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## AndyMulz (Apr 6, 2009)

woodscreative said:


> So are pain killers wrong?


Hardly put them in the same boat as steriods mate.


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## woodscreative (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm just being theoretical when talking about performance enhancing drugs. Codeine is a pretty strong pain killer and would most certainly help you train everyday and easily form a dependancy not only mentally but physically giving you an advantage.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

jeevan said:


> f**k steroids
> 
> they are cheats, they dont just help you push yourself, they push you stupidly and many times too far, you cant compare to supplements
> 
> ...


are you being sarcastic?


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

It's all been said. So all I will say is ..... Bloody hell have you seen micheal phelps(if that's how it's spelt) feeeeet. They ain't feet they are flippers. Big hands and a big nose as well. Hgh?

Re media. I'm with the haters. I will not have sky. And I ain't bought a paper since the mid eighties. I would love to punch every editor of the sun there has ever been. And the owners. And the journos. And the lady that pushes the tea trolly round.


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

Jesus, some serious invective on here, Jeevan, you need to chill out fella. (Also can you not use Hitler as a lever to try and make people side with what you are saying, it's a bit 3rd grade...)

OK you don't like roids.. we get it. can we get over the page long rants?

Re football, I used to work with a guy who is a UEFA A class coach who sells steriods (amongst other things) to people in the sport, he has told me more than enough times that the "random" testing is far from that, they (the club) know well in advance when players will be tested and if the player doesn't stop whatever course they are on (or whatever they are up to recreationally) in time then it's their lookout. It's also considered a great way of getting rid of a player who is on contract but you don't want. Don't tell him the test is coming up. Football is the most corrupt sport I've ever come across. If you don't believe prem players use roids then I think you're a bit deluded mate..

By no means am I saying it's all of them before you jump down my throat...

Rugby, yep, it goes on, I know forwards at my local club (2007/8 London South division 2 champs) and they would not compete in the scrum if they were not doing it. I also know people currently playing for both London Welsh and Kings College who use. Again, it's not the whole team by any stretch but the front row is getting bigger and bigger and that's not genetics...

Eating right, the gym and genetics will only get you so far...


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

SanshouMatt said:


> Jesus, some serious invective on here, Jeevan, you need to chill out fella. (Also can you not use Hitler as a lever to try and make people side with what you are saying, it's a bit 3rd grade...)
> 
> OK you don't like roids.. we get it. can we get over the page long rants?
> 
> ...


Get me some steroids, now!

If I'm going to shine at college football, I need some roids! I'm only 5'7" on a good day, so I need to assert my presence somehow! :rofl:


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## Razorstorm (Aug 6, 2009)

Imy said:


> Get me some steroids, now!
> 
> If I'm going to shine at college football, I need some roids! I'm only 5'7" on a good day, so I need to assert my presence somehow! :rofl:


haahaaa!!


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

BeeeffffCaaaakkkkkeeeeee! LOL

Imy, some cash and a dimly lit carpark and the roided out future is all yours fella!


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

SanshouMatt said:


> BeeeffffCaaaakkkkkeeeeee! LOL
> 
> Imy, some cash and a dimly lit carpark and the roided out future is all yours fella!


:laugh: I kid, speed and strength have always been my best areas of football.

I guess a little more couldn't hurt though, right? Someone link me and fast.

BEEEEEFFFFCAAKKKEEEE! :rofl: I <3 South Park.


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## temeura (Oct 29, 2008)

My best areas in football - standing in the goal, looking alert!


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

my best areas in Football - sitting on the couch with a cool bulmers shouting get up ya big poooof!!!


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

my best areas in football... nodding like I know what in the hell my mates are talking about.. after all these years I still really don't get it, how can a sport where nil-nil is considered a result be as popular as it is?


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## PrideNeverDies (Sep 28, 2008)

I cant be arsed to type anymore, jsut given my opinion

Anyway, My best position in football was defensive mid. , however I was never allowed to wear boots because I was too dangerous with them, and I eventually got dropped because EVERY time I got the ball in the opposition half I would shoot, but I was awesome at breaking up play


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

I'm with you matt. I've been sent to cov by my mates for my"I ****in hate football"outburst, after many beers.:happy:


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

my best position in football...left back (and you know i'm not talking about being on the pitch:laugh.

Man...this thread has gone on some.

P.S Imy if you want gear go into ANY weightlifting gym in Liverpool or stand around a supplement store long enough...like magnets!.

It is amazing how rife drug use is - go onto any weightlifting forum, damn within seconds you can find sites/links for anything you want and the advice (IMHO) is very clear about what seasoned vets on their say - "you wanna look like your on steriods???"..."get on steriods"...this is not so they can sell you it but after 15 years of them living in a gym they realised theirs bodies could not allow them to build up muscle and loose fat to the levels they wanted and the only way they could get to elite/or even a decent level for some individuals was to use....also, I've now trained 25 years martial arts, weights and everything else that is connected with it and I do not look like an elite athele...I've trained with world, European and regional champions 6 nights a week and also trained on my own the same day weights or cardio - I've trained till I've puked, which was kinda no one goes home till I make wanna you puke workouts in Thai class and puked on several occassions doing 20 rep squats (love/hate thing), so I know I've trained hard and so have the men and women around me - still I can go big and bulky or skinny (wired) I can't have a muscular look and a 8 pack - like all the people who trained around me drug free - yes, I can look good/decent and supplements do help and give you an advantage (talking about legal middle road stuff here - not including pro hormones that are legal) - but I can't look like the majority UFC contenders.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

Si-K said:


> my best position in football...left back (and you know i'm not talking about being on the pitch:laugh.
> 
> Man...this thread has gone on some.
> 
> P.S Imy if you want gear go into ANY weightlifting gym in Liverpool or stand around a supplement store long enough...like magnets!.


Haha, wow. Nah, I'd never trust anybody coming up to me and trying to sell me shit, I'm not a dumbass!

We'll see what happens though. I may get some closer to my scholarship transfer. =P


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

pro hormones are legal steriods mate (the composition is slightly altered so they are not classed as illegal substances)you do not have to walk up to the big dude in the gym :laugh:- you can buy em from supplement shops, just have milk thistle whilst on em and be sure to run post cycle therapy (PCT) afterwards to help bring your own natural test levels up - again you get pct sups legally form supplement stores - they are safe, very effective and legal to buy, sell and own...or give away!!!!!!.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

Si-K said:


> pro hormones are legal steriods mate (the composition is slightly altered so they are not classed as illegal substances)you do not have to walk up to the big dude in the gym :laugh:- you can buy em from supplement shops, just have milk thistle whilst on em and be sure to run post cycle therapy (PCT) afterwards to help bring your own natural test levels up - again you get pct sups legally form supplement stores - they are safe, very effective and legal to buy, sell and own...or give away!!!!!!.


Isn't there some sort of insane regime you have to stick to to make sure your body still produces it's own testosterone whilst you're on them? Seems like such a hassle...=S


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

regime?, no.

You should eat clean, train your bollocks off and get your rest (although you do not have to rest as much as normal as your body is healing quicker, hence why you get muscles in much quicker time and can train more and are more resilent to injury)...which I assume you are doing already?.....only draw back to this and this is a recommendation not a rule - is if you drink alcohol or do recreational drugs, I would suggest you stop em whilst on these (In fact if you are a hard training athlete I would suggest you stop them anyway or even everyday folk imho).

Do the above and take milk thistle whilst on em and (during your pct) afterwards run your pct - have a month off i.e pro hormones 4 weeks, pct 4 weeks, take your normal sups and up protein 8 weeks (and if lifting weights take 15% off the bar and do double the volume) then start again - nothing complicated at all.

E-Staine or H-drol are very mild beginner pro hormones that will produce very good results (assuming you really do the above) with absolute minimal risk of anything in terms of sides (unlike M1T which is basically, 1 step back for Dianabol users) - again assuming you do not go weird and take double the dose etc - H-drol 1 or 2 spread thru the day (i.e 7-8 hours apart) or E-staine 3 spread thru the day - you can cut or bulk on both of these - something an unassisted person could not do - unless they have great genetics...and they will know this as they will look good without working out or with minimal training.


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## Rampage-Gibson (Jun 22, 2009)

ok my first comments were basically rants about how steroids are wrong i still stand by that but i accept people are gonna take em and thats that

but i'd like to ask someone with supplement experience isnt there a safer easier way to get the same results from sups?

i'm sure there has to be another way and if so why do people take the risks with streoids?


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

H drol and e staine sound very interesting Si. What intake of food would one be munching whilst on these babies. Also how much protien and could one cut and build at the same time with these.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

O.K at this point I shall clear a few things up.....

For guys who are not regular to the site or those who have not put 2 and 2 together - I am the manager of Marc's shop Mineral's Health & Fitness, and help Marc run protein-factory and mma-factory.

I took H-drol for 1 month as, as I was selling the stuff I felt a moral obligation to see what does and does not happen when taking this stuff before I kill someone out of ignorance, I have also been trained well by Marc and completed hours and hours of research before making my decisions on which to take, and infact to take them (I have medical conditions so am at more risk than a normal healthy person - blood clot re family bad gene and major operations as a kid) as prohormones where where touted as legal and safe - unless you are very unlucky - which is no one I know who has taken them or a complete donut who decides wow 1 dose got me this far I'll take two and get double the effect - and before you know it they are taking 5 times the recommended dosage and then they wonder why the hell they have side effects).

I also have a decent grasp on steriods - as have been lifting for 15 years and done the whole bulk up, slim down thing and wonder why I could look good but not like a maxi muscle model (for instance maybe they have great genetics maybe they had to use gear maybe, I am just crap and have shite test levels or maybe I am just a regular person and this is as far as we can take it and need an edge to get that extra couple of percent that make the difference).

I used to be a research Executive - so believe in finding out all the facts and having reached an informed decision before I do anything supplements, car insurance, buying tropical fish, which book to buy etc etc - (P.S the illegal versions are not for me. for many reasons - they are safe if you have a reliable source and again do not act like a dickhead - again I have done my research and know many users, do not believe the general media or what your doctor tells you - my doctors know very little about training, fitness and steriods or blood clots for that matter!).

My results with H - Drol, I was looking to keep muscle and just lose bodyfat - I cannot do both (I just can't - Keto is good but not for me and supps will get me good but not what we are talking about here).

I kept my calories at 2500 each day - even with hard training this is maintainance for me (at 12 stone) - I only eat massive when bulking. My protein was 35g x 6 meals - carbs when I needed energy (average 250g a day) as much veg as I could be arsed eating....I lost 4% bodyfat doing this 4% and put on half a stone of muscle in 4 weeks and got close to my Personal best compound lifts when I weighted 15 stone (at 12.7). After 4 weeks (pct time no pro hormones) I upped my protien to 45g x 6 meals and ate more carbs trained less and lowered the weight (so I did not injured myself, particulalry joints and tendons as then would not keep up with muscle increase) I upped volume so for example squat went from 135kg x 20 to 110kg 10 x 4, I kept my increases and was about to start another cycle when I injured my back (trying to lift what I lifted on cycle = dickhead) and have had the flu twice in between so I am now back to 12 stone. Will be bulking to 13 stone from next week if I get rid of this cold - got to 15 stone natural when I was younger and less prone to injury this took 3.5 years from 10.7 to 15 stone - reckon I could have halved this on pro hormones and had a lot less bodyfat - so looked better and lifted more...my mood was unreal on H-drol (really happy and felt good and had amazing deep sleeps).

IMHO general supplements work real well (whey protein, creatine, kre alkalyn etc etc) and you can look and perform really good pending on your genetic make up - some people need something more and some people are just lazy (to an extent) and take prohormones/steriods to help them to speed up the process they may have got anyway and others need steriods to compete i.e bodybuilders at freaky level!. The choice is yours....depends what you believe in, your morales, it's your body I do not judge, we all have different needs and desires....be sure you still have to work really really hard pro hormones/steriods are not a quick fix if your foundation of exercise, diet and rest are not in place you will still short change yourself....and throw away your money...work hard and you will imo get results that should blow you away.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

P.S if you need personal recommendations (with anything) as usual you are more than welcome to contact me or Marc (PM's as well)...or call us on the shop number 0151 228 0684 (9am till 5.30pm Mon - Sat), be sure to introduce yourselves and state from the forum...just we do get lads calling they wanna buy steriods ...and then we have to explain to them we sell pro hormones (not the illegal stuff they maybe on about...you'll be surprised) and then we have to ask them a bunch of questions so we can recommend stuff -If we know who you are it saves all the messing about!.:yes:..as we have a good idea re most of your abilities and targets from gabbing on the site.:happy:

www.protein-factory.co.uk

www.mma-factory.net


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

Si-K said:


> P.S if you need personal recommendations (with anything) as usual you are more than welcome to contact me or Marc (PM's as well)...or call us on the shop number 0151 228 0684 (9am till 5.30pm Mon - Sat), be sure to introduce yourselves and state from the forum...just we do get lads calling they wanna buy steriods ...and then we have to explain to them we sell pro hormones (not the illegal stuff they maybe on about...you'll be surprised) and then we have to ask them a bunch of questions so we can recommend stuff -If we know who you are it saves all the messing about!.:yes:..as we have a good idea re most of your abilities and targets from gabbing on the site.:happy:
> 
> www.protein-factory.co.uk
> 
> www.mma-factory.net


Expect lots of prank calls.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Yep. Like how do I stop my sponge from sagging in the middle and how do I stop my son fron sneakin up up behind me when I'm on the pc and choking me out. The second happens on a regular basis.


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## Razorstorm (Aug 6, 2009)

spitfire said:


> Yep. Like how do I stop my sponge from sagging in the middle and how do I stop my son fron sneakin up up behind me when I'm on the pc and choking me out. The second happens on a regular basis.


lol lol


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

spitfire said:


> Yep. Like how do I stop my sponge from sagging in the middle and how do I stop my son fron sneakin up up behind me when I'm on the pc and choking me out. The second happens on a regular basis.


Stop buying cheapo sponges from the market, put a small mirror next to your monitor so you can see who's coming up behind you or get on the gear and develop massive neck so your son is incapabable of such activities...anything else?


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

see guys we have it all covered - nothing we haven't heard before :laugh:.

Getting back to the original point of the post.....

We also sell Cissus Drol this is a herbal remedy that helps with bad joints and tendons - you take 1 - 3 times a day or if you "double dose" it i.e 2 x 3 ed it gives you effects like H-Drol as this is a non steriod you can stay on it all year without PCT etc - so where do you draw the line when not having an unfair advantage? whey, creatine, cissus drol, pro hormones, steriods, growth hormone.

One thing you have to remember (and has been touched upon) we are all different so a reach advantage over your opponent - maybe unfair? (I know it was when I used to get my head kicked in by guys who are 6ft 8 - I couldn't even kick em in the head (shoulders got in the way!!!), and many other individual factors - then the fact most of us know that the elite level use drugs in one form or another is rampant - drug tests are years behind the phara industry and always will be - hence a lot of neg results on men who are clearly using something (then as noted earlier they are not as random and surprise tests as we are led to believe) - you have to be fairly specific with what you are testing for to catch someone - it is very interesting and knowing how do you draw the line...P.S I am off today so call Marc with your prank calls and get it outta system (no please don't):happy:.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Does elvis work down the chip shop.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

Elvis sinosic? Probably...


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

after the hammering he took from Bisping - I doubt he is even capable of that now - Marc I'll pop down around 2(ish) - I'll be in the area.


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## Si-K (Jul 23, 2007)

:laugh:...great now I'm Sponge bob - you sure your working Marc??.


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## spitfire (Apr 19, 2008)

Spongebob. Ha. My son loves spongebob. Now I can tell him where spongebob goes when he ain't acting.


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## Imy (Jul 20, 2007)

spitfire said:


> Spongebob. Ha. My son loves spongebob. Now I can tell him where spongebob goes when he ain't acting.


Spongebob tries to sell people steroids? That'll go down a treat with your kid! :rofl:


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## Matthew Hier (May 17, 2009)

A good course of Anapolon 50's!! acne, bad temper tantrums :angry: , water retention but STRENGTH lol loads of it


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## SanshouMatt (Jul 1, 2008)

Matthew Hier said:


> A good course of Anapolon 50's!! acne, bad temper tantrums :angry: , water retention but STRENGTH lol loads of it


My mind is well and truly opened, I'll never watch spongebob in the same way!


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

Dont agree with steroid use in sports. No matter which way you cut it people who use 'roids in MMA are knowlingly and willingly *cheating* - nothing more, nothing less.

The likes of Josh Barnett to come out with speeches about how he doesnt care what pills his opponant is taking, which is easy to say when he's the worst drugs cheat of them all having been caught out three times. Bottom line is that people like Barnett are doing drugs safe in the knowledge that their opponants probable are not and that they will then have an advantage.

Then you have the medical implications which is what sets 'roids aside from the suppliments used by mose athletes which have little if any negative side effects.


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## Strech (Jun 15, 2010)

there is something better on the market, I think its called MYOT12, its to do with regulating the flow of a myostatin, its a hormone that inhibts the growth of muscle. it has no side effects and as far as i can gather pretty safe to use as its natural. but with the roids, roid muscle is dumb muslce its great for looking at but its slow and cumbersome and it does some bad things to your voice and errrrrrr package.


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## marc (Jul 16, 2007)

> but with the roids, roid muscle is dumb muslce its great for looking at but its slow and cumbersome and it does some bad things to your voice and errrrrrr package.


Roid muscle eh ? Gotta get me some of that Roid muscle


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## Mandirigma (Oct 8, 2009)

AAS negatively affects cardiovascular health but given the right environment (training regime, nutrition, adjustment to physiological changes etc), you can minimise them and at the same time, reap actual benefits they provide.

Given that, to do this costs a lot of money since involves academics by qualification and exp and industry apparatus (i.e. testing vo2 max, red/white cell blood count) . Top athletes, will in doubt use for the majority given the amount paid by the sporting authority, sponsorships etc, those lesser level, not so much.

AAS arent the only things to be looked out in sports in general, its those meds that classically PED Performance Enhancing Drugs and ways to increase performance outside of nutrition and physical training (blood doping, blood thinning, etc).


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## ewrayzor (Jun 19, 2010)

you wouldn't believe the amount of young lads at our gym that are on growth (hgh) I think they end up looking odd to be honest. Generally look longer and larger in the arms than in the shoulders and wide at the thighs and smaller in the calve. Kind of more ape looking.

On steroids I think we would be amazed at how many top sports men and women are using. In some sports it's almost the norm! I think with the development of new drugs through good science the side effects are not as great as they once were and it's generally guys that have abused the drug that have issues. That said, if its against the rules I hate it


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## Grantinerfe (Jun 8, 2011)

I think you can't stop it and it gets worse at low level competition where there's no testing and they can take what ever they want + if they were to really test for roids/drugs properly every single athelte every sigle time many world records and the like would be back as they were 10 years ago, no that I care but the fans out there are expecting their favourite athlete to perform better every time and the athlete knows this so they have to do something about it....


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## Agentman (Jul 1, 2010)

If you were to test at the lower levels of the sport you would find all sorts - not just roids but all of the other little things that arent allowed in professional competition. Its easy to forget just how much isnt allowed in the pro game, such as diaretics, some of the stuff in fat burners etc.


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## leeoliber (Jul 2, 2011)

The only problems incomes to steroids.. is addiction and unfair to those who really spend time in works out...


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## KEVAXY (Aug 8, 2011)

Hahaha lol


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## Babycakes (Nov 2, 2012)

As far as uk mma goes its not exactly rocket science to guess whos on the juice and whos not. But i will say the heavyweights are worst.


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## Joe007 (Jan 4, 2013)

Anabolic steroids may be a reason in the sudden death of athletes.

For example, a 1995 case revealed by the journal "Cardiology" explains the death of an otherwise healthy bodybuilder. This 20-year-old-man passed away from strokes as a result of an enlarged heart. Because the bodybuilder had no previous health problems, the illegal use of anabolic steroid steroids was implicated in his death.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

I think that roids are very widely used in sport...far far more than the gnereal public think. They help give an edge but the person still needs to put the work in so I don't really see it as a cheat per se. I suppose I just accept that as long as there's ways to assist with achieving goals, people will use them...esepcially if that goal becomes the focus on their life e.g. olympic athletes.


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## robinjohn12 (Feb 28, 2013)

Imy said:


> I know steroids are illegal and have some crazy side effects, but at the end of the day, performance enhancers should be checked out. Personally, I don't believe there's anything wrong in taking anything which allows your body to reach and maintain the best level it can.
> 
> When you start taking drugs that allow to exceed your own limitations, then that's where the line should be drawn.
> 
> What other sort of performance enhancers are there?


Hello Imy

Steroids are used for increase strength of human. and it is effect to fitness and strength of users, so it is important to test.


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## chubbman (Feb 10, 2013)

to quote el guapo "roids are for ****"


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