# nWo's T3 FAQ



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

So I've noticed that T3 is a very asked-about drug on these forums. I've been messing around with thyroid hormones for quite some time now and done a LOT of research and reading about them, and as I've discussed my experiences in recent months on these forums I've been asked a lot of questions about the various aspects of thyroid hormones, T3 in particular. I like to think myself knowledgeable on the topic and have been labelled so by several other forum users here, so I figured I'd make a write-up to answer some of the questions I get asked, or have seen asked, the most.

I'll try my best to make this FAQ as clear and concise as possible for the layman to understand - an informative article meant for the general public is confusing and therefore useless if it's full of complex information that's hard to understand for someone who isn't well versed in the matter of thyroid hormones. It's frustrating when loads of technical jargon is thrown in seemingly just to make it look like the author is all-knowing, so my aim is to avoid bamboozling my readers.

There are a lot of myths surrounding this drug, many of which have been long debunked by scientific research and testing but yet they still stand on some areas of the web, so I've taken it upon myself to help identify these myths and state what I believe to be the facts based on hard evidence and the experiences of myself and others. Naturally, some of the ideas here are going to fly in the face of seemingly popular current knowledge - however, I'm just going by my experience with this drug, my research and the good feedback I've gotten from others based on their results after I've given them advice, and will provide evidence and data where necessary. If you disagree with my interpretation of something here, feel free to disregard it and use your own judgement, other approaches do work (albeit to an overall less efficient degree IMO) and you may indeed find that a slightly different approach sits better with you :thumbup1:

I'll be updating this FAQ with any new ideas and discoveries in my ongoing research and guinea-pigging of myself and my mates :lol: If there are any other questions I haven't answered that you'd like to see added or simply answered separately, feel free to comment. Please note that this will be a very long post, so I'd advise bookmarking it for future reference. This forum unfortunately lacks the features (anchoring, correctly functioning 'spoilers' etc) for me to clear this up to access certain questions more quickly, so sadly I can't make it any shorter or more accessible.

DISCLAIMER: The following is just advice. While T3 is generally a safe drug when used sensibly, it can be harmful and even deadly when used incorrectly. Use at your own risk and seek the advice of a qualified medical professional should you be concerned about your health before, during and/or after using thyroid drugs.

*What is T3, and how is it of use to bodybuilders?*

T3 is a thyroid hormone, and the main regulator of metabolism. In short, the higher your free T3 levels, the faster your metabolism and the more calories you burn as a baseline. When free T3 levels are low, the pituitary gland signals the thyroid gland to produce T4, which the body then converts to T3.

Synthetic T3 was (as with most drugs used by bodybuilders) designed as a drug for medicinal purposes, in this case for thyroid replacement therapy in those with thyroid problems. Bodybuilders have been using T3 for several decades now for its effects on the metabolism. The most popular use of T3 is to increase one's TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure, i.e. calories burned) during a cutting phase or contest prep, and it does this very well.

Synthetic T3 is also proven to improve the way we process nutrients - it increases protein synthesis/protein turn-over rate and is also thought to improve the metabolism of carbohydrates. This obviously helps us during a dieting phase - however, because of this, the use of T3 is becoming increasingly popular during bulking cycles too. With the improved nutrient partitioning facilitated by T3, fat is less likely to be gained. The increase in protein synthesis also allows us to benefit more from a high protein diet, which in a caloric surplus can lead to increased gains.

Thyroid hormones also, in general, contribute to growth and development - seeing how us bodybuilding folk spend most of our time in a state of development and growth, it's not hard to see why high Free T3 levels can be of use to the bodybuilder whilst running a bulking cycle. I'll talk more on bulking cycles later.

*Why T3, rather than T4? Isn't T4 used for thyroid replacement these days?*

Yes, it is. The reason for this is simple - when we use T4, the thyroid won't convert it to T3 when there is already enough T3 in our system (unless there's a problem with the thyroid being overactive in its conversion of T4 to T3, which is at the root of most hyperthyroid conditions). This is great for thyroid replacement therapy as it ensures that T3 levels won't go too high, but for bodybuilders who are aiming for high T3 levels, this isn't what we're after. I also talked about the improved metabolisation of nutrients and so on with T3 usage - well, when we give the body T4 to convert to T3, it'll be our natural endogenous T3 and we won't get these extra benefits.

T4 needs to be used in quadruple amounts compared to T3 to get the same amount of T3. Based on this, in my experience, I've found 75mcg of T3 alone to be more effective than a comparable stack of 37.5mcg T3 and 150mcg T4. This was to be expected as, again, the body will only convert as much T4 to T3 as it needs to maintain normal metabolic functioning in those with healthy thyroid function.

T4 is generally thought to be the superior choice if you're stacking it with Human Growth Hormone since they work synergistically, though that's a whole other topic and T3 is otherwise the better choice for the GH-free bodybuilder. A combination of T3 and T4 may even work well for the HGH user, though this isn't something I've bothered to look into so don't quote me on that!

*Will T3 usage lead to thyroid damage?*

Generally, no. Reports of thyroid damage from T3 use are extremely rare. Conversely, there are an astonishing number of studies that have proven that thyroid shutdown never actually occurs, and regardless of duration and dosage (within sensible limits) full thyroid function returns to normal within a few weeks in pretty much all cases. Studies date back to as early as the '50s, such as a study by a guy named M Greer, that found that people misdiagnosed with thyroid conditions had their T3 withdrawn after long term use (some as long as 30 continuous years) and had their thyroid fully functioning again within 2-3 weeks of cessation. Full article on this here - it's a pretty lengthy article, so here's the meat of what we're looking for:



> An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.
> 
> Here is a remark about Greer's classic paper from a later author:
> 
> ...


 The belief as to the reason that the thyroid is never really shut down, is because the thyroid gland was designed to go through periods of inactivity; when the levels of T3 in the body are low, the pituitary gland will send a message to the thyroid to produce T4 for the body to convert to T3. It's not producing T4 24/7 and invariably sits dormant for extended periods of time - it's designed to get working quickly after being inactive. The only likely reason it takes a few weeks to seemingly recover thyroid function is that, after the cessation of exogenous T3, there are going to be extremely low levels of T3 in the body, and it's going to be a gradual process to build it back up to acceptable levels again because the body won't want to just shoot its natural T3 levels back up immediately - it'd see this as a bit of a shock to the system, and the body doesn't like quick, dramatic changes.

*Is T3 catabolic? Do I need to use AAS with it?*

In short, the answer to both these questions is yes - however, I feel that the catabolic element of this drug is highly overstated. T3 will make you look flat at higher doses on a deficit, and when people see this they assume they've lost muscle. However, when you raise your calories again (particularly your carbohydrates), you'll regain some fullness pretty quickly and realise that the muscle was never actually lost.

The above isn't to say, though, that T3 isn't cataolic. It's mildly catabolic on its own, and is exacerbated when things like cortisol and a caloric deficit triggering overall weight loss are thrown into the equation. However, let's look at T3's mode of action - it increases both protein breakdown and synthesis. With T3 on its own, the breakdown of proteins (i.e. lean tissue) will outweigh the synthesis and you'll experience muscle catabolism. If, however, you introduce AAS (and we don't even need that much, as we'll look at shortly) then the breakdown/synthesis balance becomes fairly level and we no longer experience catabolism. If we then add in a caloric surplus with plenty of protein, the scales are tipped on to the side of synthesis, and T3 actually aids anabolism. Hence, it can be utilised for more favourable results on a bulk, i.e. improved lean gains and a decrease in the rate of fat gain. We'll talk more about this later, but for now let's look at the dosage of AAS we need in conjunction with our T3 (we'll use the old staple, testosterone, as our example drug here).

I recommend, if we're talking about testosterone usage, the formula of "mcg of T3 x 5 = grams of testosterone" to ensure the counteraction of the catabolic effect of T3. So, for example, taking 50mcg of T3, 250mg of test should be enough. Obviously, other steroids or pro-hormones can be stacked with, or replace, testosterone - the point was that you don't need as much AAS to counteract the catabolism as a lot of people might think. Something I've also heard a lot is that trenbolone as well as clenbuterol can both combat the flatness that T3 can create during a deficit, which makes sense as these compounds tend to harden up the physique and bring more blood into the muscles, but never having tried this I can neither confirm nor deny.

I also recommend at LEAST a gram of protein for every lb of bodyweight you carry. I've never been an advocate of massive amounts of protein, but with T3 I truly believe you'll benefit from a very high protein diet - not only is it essential to get plenty of protein to favourably swing the balance between the increased protein breakdown and synthesis T3 will cause, but because more protein generally becomes usable by the body when using T3, then generally, the higher the percentage of your diet that is protein (meaning less carbs and fats), the more likely you are to lose fat and less likely to store it (some people may disagree with this claim, which obviously is fine but I feel it obligatory to at least provide what I feel is a well-performed and relevant study (here) to back up my view).

*When should I take T3? How often?*

Take it first thing in the morning once a day and on an empty stomach, regardless of the dose. T3 is thought to have a couple day half life, so makes no sense to split the doses. It also makes even less sense to take it multiple times a day when we consider that it's best taken on an empty stomach because calcium and iron will interfere with the absorption of the med.

Best case scenario is to allow at least two hours before ingesting food, though I've found that you can get away with waiting a bit less than an hour. If you're eating a meal low in calcium and iron, you can take your T3 with it - just note that even pretty small amounts of iron will affect the absorption of T3, whereas the threshold for impaired absorption of some nutrients and meds by calcium is thought to be around 200-300mg of calcium. If you enjoy a cup of coffee first thing and can wait at least half an hour before eating breakfast, go for it, but no more than just a splash of milk! 250mg of cooked rice also has only around 1mg of iron and is pretty low in calcium, so it might be a good meal to start the day if you're not able to allow a gap for whatever reason. Just be aware that some sauces will contain iron and/or calcium, as will many meats and veggies, so it'd be wise to do a search-around and see what you can and can't have based on what you like.

*How should I dose my T3 whilst cutting? Do I need to ramp up?*

I always recommend 50mcg as a maximum dose if it's your first cycle. I'd recommend 25-50mcg as a dose for metabolic optimisation and stabilisation, the latter of which really comes into good use during prolonged dieting when metabolic slowing would otherwise occur. 75mcg at a push in some cases, but it'd be wiser to just drop a few hundred calories from your diet instead if it was for cutting. T3 should be used to optimise one's metabolism, rather than being used as a fat burner in itself. The tendency whilst dieting is for the body to reduce your Basal Metabolic Rate to conserve your body's stored fuel, and using a replacement dose of T3 essentially stops that from happening. There are also other benefits you don't get with your own T3, such as improved carbohydrate tolerance and greater protein synthesis rates when used with AAS, which is also why I like to use a high-replacement dose when I'm bulking.

Typically, I'd say start with a dose of 25mcg, and bump it up a little every few days until you reach a max 50mcg dose.

*Do you recommend high doses of T3 at 100mcg or more?*

No. I used to, but over time I've come to realise that it's not worth it. Do I believe such a dose is safe? If the person is healthy and they monitor their symptoms, then yes, absolutely. I've followed the work of late thyroid specialist Dr. John C. Lowe for a few years now and he regularly had some of his patients on 100mcg of T3 (yes, T3 - not T4) or more - their health was monitored and they felt good on these doses, and of course their thyroid function was great (some interesting reading here http://web.archive.org/web/20101224224855/http://drlowe.com/QandA/askdrlowe/t3.htm). I've tried up to 150mcg myself, felt very good on it and my TDEE was obviously high.

On a previous cut, I added in an extra 25mcg every three weeks. By doing this, I didn't have to lower my caloric intake at all - I kept my intake consistent, and by adding in the extra T3 as I dropped bodyweight, the would-be lowering of my TDEE due to the decrease in weight was counteracted by the increase in TDEE by the introduction of more T3. In other words, my TDEE was pretty much kept constant throughout the last 10 weeks so there has been no need to adjust my calories to keep losing 2-3lbs a week, week-in week-out. It definitely worked well.

...

...so why don't I recommend it if it works so well and is safe? Well, I've noticed over time that I seem to gain weight back quickly when relying on high doses of T3 to lose it. When I thought about it, it makes sense - weight loss via hormonal changes, is always going to be reset if those hormones are reset. So, in other words, the results are temporary unless you stay on that high dose permanently, which I'd of course never recommend. As I said in the previous question, T3 is best used for metabolic optimisation/stabilisation purposes.

*Do I need to taper down at the end of the cycle?*

Not in the way that most people think. If you gradually lower the dose, you're still supplying the body with T3. When you're still supplying the body with an adequate level of T3, the recovery process cannot begin, and even 25mcg can be an adequate amount that will mean no more thyroid hormone is needed and so the thyroid won't need to get back to work. When we factor in that the half life of T3 is thought to be around a couple of days, it makes more sense to cease the cycle and the levels of exogenous T3 in our blood will gradually decrease as the days pass. So in effect, there's enough tapering down going on anyway.

However, there's a more efficient approach than coming off completely. Coming off completely will leave our metabolism at rock-bottom since there's 0 thyroid hormone and if we're not very careful, we risk the chance of gaining back fat. So how do we go about ending our cycle?

We run a low dose of 12.5mcg for 2-3 weeks from the end of the cycle.

Running a continued dose of 12.5mcg of T3 at the end of the cycle sort of acts like a post-cycle therapy. 12.5mcg is enough to provide a bit of T3 to the body and keep the metabolism half-decent, yet at the same time isn't nearly enough to replace what the body normally produces. So, the thyroid gland has to get back to work to make up the rest and the recovery process can begin while the 12.5mcg keeps an acceptable level of metabolic function going.

As I said above, there is no need to taper down and it would be a waste of time. Just drop down to 12.5mcg from day 1 after the cycle, and run it for 2-3 weeks. This time period will allow the thyroid to recover to normal levels whilst providing a baseline metabolism during the early stages of the recovery. IDEALLY, you'd get bloods done after this few week bridging period to see where you're at and make sure you're recovered.

Here are my experiences with this protocol by way of blood test results:

Before ever using T3:

Serum TSH level: 4.28 mu/L (0.35 - 5.50)

Serum Free T4 level: 18.5 pmol/L (10.3 - 22.7)

Serum Free T3 level: 4.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 6.5)

All normal

After a year on T3, having been on 50mcg for the last month:

Serum TSH level: 0.15 mu/L (0.35 - 5.50) "Abnormal"

Serum Free T4 level: 5.7 pmol/L (10.3 - 22.7) "Abnormal"

Serum Free T3 level: 6.1 pmol/L (3.5 - 6.5)

Exogenous T3 causing suppression of my TSH and T4 levels due to replacement, 50mcg appears to be a high-replacement dose for me and is higher than my normal level theoretically meaning a boost in TDEE

3 weeks later, 3 weeks of running the 12.5mcg protocol:

Serum TSH level: 3.81 mu/L (0.35 - 5.50)

Serum Free T4 level: 15.6 pmol/L (10.3 - 22.7)

Serum Free T3 level: 5.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 6.5)

Despite still being on 12.5mcg, TSH and T4 are normalised, albeit possibly mildly suppressed due to still being on 12.5mcg. T3 levels fully recovered and higher than before T3 was ever used.

I'd call my recovery a total success based on the above. I ate at what would normally be maintenance for me and gained 2lbs in weight between the start and the end of the protocol. I'd advise eating a bit below maintenance for the first week of the protocol.

Note: Here is some blood work of another UK-M user (thread here) who recently tried this protocol, suggesting full thyroid recovery:

TSH: 2.07 (0.27 - 4.2) Free T4: 16.1 (12.0 - 22.0) Free T3: 7.1 (3.1 - 6.8)

*What should my diet be like when I start the above recovery protocol?*

The metabolism will be fairly low on 12.5mcg. In order to ensure that you don't get fat in the 2-3 weeks it will take to recover, you need to stay at what would normally be a mild deficit for you, so you need to plan this wisely. Some prefer to maintain the deficit for a few weeks until thyroid function has been restored, whereas others like to gradually increase their calories over the weeks as thyroid function returns to normal and TDEE gradually increases.

Some people like to use iodine supplements, such as sea kelp, to help recover their thyroid function. Iodine deficiency generally leads to poor thyroid function, so this idea makes sense and sea kelp is dirt-cheap.

*Shouldn't you check your temperature to establish how much T3 you need?*

This is an approach that has been talked about by some experts of the past. I won't go into detail, but in short your temperature is generally an indicator of thyroid function, and the temperature measurements are used to ensure that you're taking the right amount of T3, as well as to establish whether or not you've reached the point at which thyroid function recovery will take a few weeks rather than a few days to return to normal.

Here's my issue with this approach. Firstly, a lot of people, myself included, discover that certain (or all) types of AAS influence their body temperature. So, given that T3 is generally used with AAS for bodybuilding purposes, this can obviously skew the results of these measurements significantly. Secondly - and this is somewhat linked to my first issue - is that, if you're going by these readings, it seems to be suggested that most people need 100mcg of T3 just as a baseline replacement dose! This is insanity if you ask me. I had bloods done whilst on 50mcg of T3 just to satisfy my curiosity - my free T3 levels came back right on the high end of normal, not far off what would have been considered hyperthyroidism, and TSH and T4 came back suppressed meaning that the thyroid was no longer working to produce T4 since there was more than enough T3 in the body already. So in other words, 50mcg for me was enough to be a high-replacement dose - I'm a tall and pretty heavy lad, so it's of no relation to the theory that less bodyweight = less of the drug needed. Others I've spoken to who have had bloods done on similar amounts have had similar results. Besides that, I've heard of women getting the impression from temperature readings that 100+mcg is needed as a baseline even at their low bodyweights. Also, it's suggested that once you reach a certain temperature, you'll start experiencing thyroid shutdown and should come off to prevent recovery problems - this is completely unnecessary, for reasons established earlier in this FAQ.

So yes, I'm going against what qualified science professionals have said since steroids weren't factored in and I always advise using AAS with T3. Instead, I'm going by my own, and several others' I know, practical experiences and saying that doses of 50mcg or maybe lower are indeed useful. I'm sure pretty much every thyroid specialist you'd ask would also tell you that doses of above 50mcg are going to see your free T3 levels start going out of the normal range, unless you're an elderly person with abnormal thyroid function.

*I've heard of the 2 days on/2 days off approach - is this useful?*

Not really. The idea behind this approach is to avoid adaptation by the body to the amount of T3 you're talking - by taking your T3 two days in a row, and then having two days off, you get a high level on day 1, an even higher level on day 2, and then it gradually lowers by about half over the next 2 days before being raised again. This up and down dosing is thought to stop the "homeostasis" response and keeps the body off-balance, i.e. not allowing it to adjust to the T3.

I firmly believe the above, however, to be unnecessary. I've personally run the same dose for several weeks and seen no "adjustment" effect whatsoever - the results after the extended period were the same as they were on the first week. I've also known of several people besides myself to run the same dose for several months and not "adjust" to it. Fellow UK-M'er SelflessSelfie has ran 100mcg for 8 weeks straight and can confirm it's still as effective on week 8 as it is on week 1.

I believe the adjustment theory comes from steroids generally being adjusted to by the body, but T3 however is different. There are also probably some that have said that the same dose will lose its effectiveness after a few weeks - however, I'd imagine that these people haven't taken into account the drop in bodyweight and subsequent lowering of TDEE during T3 use.

So, to summarise, the 2 on/2 off approach works, but is unnecessary. It'd be easier on your system and produce identical results to just use a regular daily dose rather than doubling up for a couple of days and then having a couple off.

*I'm prepping for a contest - is it a good idea to use T3?*

Absolutely. However, it's worth noting that, as discussed above, T3 may make you look temporarily flat whilst cutting, so it's not ideal to be on a significant dose when it comes to getting on stage. I'd strongly advise coming off the T3 at least a month in advance, following the recovery protocol (info to follow) and then have a timely refeed to allow yourself to fill back out. Really, if you're not in tune with how T3 works for you, might not be the best idea to use it during contest prep - gain a bit more experience with it first.

*Is it okay to use underground lab (UGL) T3 rather than pharma?*

I've known many to use UGL T3 and have great results. It's certainly effective. However, you're taking a bit of a risk. Just a bit of a risk, but a risk nonetheless, and the point of this article is to make you aware.

T3 is taken in mcg. That's a 1000th of a mg, and needs serious regulation to ensure completely accurate dosing, something that UGLs generally don't have in place. Granted, in general, some of the best UGLs do a good job of getting their dosing on point, maybe out by a mg here and there but this isn't going to make much difference with most drugs. However, with a drug that's taken in mcg's, there's always the potential for a dose that's way off the mark.

I consider 200mcg to be a pretty safe upper limit and you can get away with taking more T3 than a lot of people realise. However, all it takes is for someone working on tabs in a UGL to mess up, accidentally slip another half a mg in there and all of a sudden you're taking 500+mcg in one sitting. Overdoses like this can lead to thyrotoxic crisis or "thyroid storm", which is considered to be a life threatening medical emergency that can lead to irreversible heart damage or even death.

Now, it's an extremely rare case, in fact practically unheard of, for a lab to screw up T3 dosing to the degree that it can cause such a huge and lasting problem or even kill you, and chances are that you'll be fine using a trusted/reputable UGL. However, the risk is always there, and this FAQ is here to make you aware of the risks, and I'm not here to bash any labs but one of them is particularly good otherwise and a reputable lab, yet I and several others I've spoken to have had problems with their T3 being WAY overdosed. So just goes to show that even reputable labs get it wrong when it comes to mcg dosing.

I mostly go pharma grade with T3 so I know I'm gonna get what I'm intending to take, but I've used UGL labs in the past with good results. Certain pharma brands are some of the cheapest you can pick up and are available from tried and trusted online pharmacies. Always look up the reviews.

*You've discussed using T3 whilst bulking and I've seen others mention it - any advice?*

As I've indeed discussed above, the use of T3 during bulking cycles is becoming increasingly popular. It increases protein synthesis and turnover rate and is thought to improve carbohydrate metabolism, and when combined with a high protein diet and AAS can lead to improved gains and minimised fat gain.

I've known several people to use T3 during a bulk cycle and they were very impressed with it, whilst I've also known a couple to not be so impressed. I think, though, that some people run maybe 50mcg and think they can go gung-ho with their diet and not put on any fat - this isn't the case. Whilst you're taking a decent dose, it will help you keep the fat at bay, it will only help - it won't stop you getting fat eating twice what you'd normally eat on a bulk and getting a ridiculous amount of carbs and fats. It should be taken to optimise your metabolism and aid protein synthesis.

I believe 50mcg to be the sweet spot for bulking. This dose is well tolerated by most and optimises your metabolic function and protein turnover.

*T3 makes me hungrier! Is this normal? *

Generally, if you're experiencing increased hunger on T3, you're using a dose that increases your thyroid hormone level significantly and I'd recommend a lower dose whilst dieting. T3 improves the body's ability to process nutrients - when used at the correct dose, this will generally mean less hunger due to the fact that the body is getting more of the micronutrients it needs from your food and macronutrients are processed more efficiently - this though can be overridden by taking a dose that increases your TDEE by a considerable margin therefore increasing your body's requirements for food. Appetite suppressants like Sibutramine or ECA can help, but lowering the dose is the most advisable approach.

*I blast & cruise with my steroids - can I also run a low dose of T3 whilst I cruise?*

Yes, you can. In fact, I run 32.5mcg between blasts and have found it to work well (you may wish to run 25mcg to be conservative), eliminating the need to "reverse diet" after finishing a blast cycle. This is a good dose to keep your free T3 levels at normal levels and the metabolism decent. As we've established, running T3 for long durations has no lasting effect on the thyroid.

I tend to drop my calories down to maintenance whilst I'm cruising as well as consuming more normal levels of protein - a gram of protein per lb of bodyweight or a bit more works well.

*Speaking of blasting and cruising - would you advise using T3 to cut during a cruise?*

Absolutely. Slightly off-topic, but I prefer to cut during my cruises these days, saving my blasts for building muscle. I cruise on 250mg of testosterone - I've ran as much as 150mcg of T3 on this dose and I've not experienced any notable level of muscle loss. As I've already stated, I think the catabolic element of T3 is way overstated and almost non-existent when a good dose of AAS is thrown into the mix, but then I also gave a sensible guideline above because not everyone will be able to maintain on 150mcg and a cruise dose of test, and indeed a lot of people won't even be able to tolerate such a high dose of T3 and I certainly advise against using it. However, a sensible dose of T3 on a cruise dose of testosterone will absolutely aid a mid-cruise cut without sacrificing muscle mass where protein intake is adequate and training is good. Be prepared for increased muscle flatness due to glycogen depletion, of course.

*I've heard of people using T3 for a post-contest/post-cut "anabolic rebound" - good idea?*

I've had experience with this myself and think it's a superb idea.

Let's look at the idea behind the "anabolic rebound" first. After being depleted of calories for a considerable period, when you switch all of a sudden to a high calorie diet again the muscles act like sponges. They'll suck up water, retain glycogen and the body will generally be in a state in which excess nutrients are absorbed and used for lean tissue as opposed to fat gain. That's the theory anyway, one which a lot of competitive bodybuilders apparently swear by.

Here's the downside of the above, though. After an extended period of dieting, chances are the metabolism is going to be running low. This means a low TDEE not leaving us much room to play with in terms of calories, and poor partitioning of nutrients. Overall, this can negate the anabolic state that the body would have been in whilst "rebounding".

This is where T3 really shines - it keeps the metabolism revving and, as I've talked about already, helps put the body in an anabolic state when combined with AAS and a caloric surplus. If done correctly, within a week of finishing your diet and reverting from a cut to a bulk, you can regain as much as 15lbs of intra-muscular water, glycogen and a bit of lean tissue, and be looking fuller AND leaner. As for how to do it correctly, you literally just transition straight into a bulk. You can find instructions on how to bulk with T3 above in terms of recommended doses and nutrition.

The whole "rebound" effect is generally thought to last a couple of weeks. Do with that information what you will. I'd of course recommend you stay on AAS whilst continuing your T3 use, so maybe extend your cutting cycle to allow the bulk - either that, or if you're going to cut during a cruise as I discussed above, then maybe cut at the end of your cruise so you can start your blast by way of a rebound bulk.

*Will I experience strength loss whilst using T3?*

I've noticed that this one is purely down to individual response and happens in a dose-dependent manner, so you may or may not. However, the more of a deficit you're in, particularly if you're running low carbs, the higher the likelihood that you'll experience general muscle weakness and loss of glycogen retention within the muscle which will both temporarily lessen your levels of strength, and if you're running 100mcg or more then you'll very likely experience an increased level of glycogen depletion even in a small deficit. Might not be the best of ideas to use T3 on the run-up to a powerlifting or strongman comp (which I can't imagine most people would want to do anyway since staying lean isn't usually a priority for a lifting comp prep), but other than that any strength loss should indeed be temporary.

*Isn't T3 bad for your heart?*

If you have a pre-existing heart condition, I wouldn't recommend you using T3. This abstract 20 year observational follow-up study (full paper is available at ResearchGate but you need to be a member and request the full text) does demonstrate that there is no increased risk of atrial fibrillation, cardiovascular problems or death associated with long term T3 use with sensible dosing - however, this is no guarantee that nothing will happen to you if you have pre-existing conditions, as T3 does increase cardiac output in a dose-dependent manner, especially the longer you run higher doses. You should ideally have gotten your cardiac function fully checked, and have it checked regularly, if you're using performance and image enhancing drugs either way.

You shouldn't have a problem if your heart is healthy, though. If you do start getting symptoms that you wouldn't normally experience, such as recurrent palpitations, tachycardia (abnormally fast heart rate) etc, then discontinue your use. However, I believe T3 to be less stressful on the heart than stimulants, such as ephedrine and clenbuterol as used in cutting cycles - it's quite telling that these two meds were taken off the market because of their adverse effects on the heart, whereas T3 is prescribed all over the world, with an abundance of research behind it, and the doses prescribed might not be as low as many think. Just be careful, especially when combining T3 and stimulants, and stop using everything if you feel something isn't right with your heart and run the recovery protocol as detailed above. Problem should quickly disappear with discontinuation - visit your doctor if the problem still persists after a week or two.

I do find that the longer you run a higher dosed cycle then high blood pressure may become an issue, and when this happens the more likely it is that side effects like palpitations and so on are likely to start presenting themselves, but running sensible cycles like this for a few months at a time generally hasn't been a problem for myself or others I've spoken to - those with a healthy cardiovascular system should be able to run T3 for the entire length of any steroid cycle of a sensible duration throughout the entirety of the cycle with no issue unless you're running very high doses, but I must stress that if you start getting cardiovascular side effects then drop it. Ignoring the problem could potentially lead to permanent damage of the heart/cardiovascular system. Any issues should subside over the next few weeks after cessation if the use of T3 is ceased when the problems first start arising.

Blasting a very high dose for a few weeks also tends to be very tolerable for myself and others I've spoken to, but as I've pretty much stated above, I've noticed that the higher doses seem to come with side effects the longer you run them, with the side effects coming in quicker the longer you run them. I can run 150mcg pretty much side effect free for a few weeks, then I start noticing my heart rate increasing, palpitations, feeling hot and a bit tight-chested - the symptoms went away once I discontinued the cycle, though it's obviously not good to get to this point at all, so I'd never run a high dose for more than a few weeks again, and as I've said above I don't recommend using T3 as a fat burner, only a drug for metabolic optimisation at a high-normal replacement dose. If you're after a large boost in your metabolic rate, I'd actually say it's safer to run a mild dose of DNP than it is to run a high dose of T3 (this is another topic, however, and I'd strongly advise you to research DNP fully before considering using it).

*Can using T3 cause hair loss?*

In short, yes. The link between abnormal thyroid hormone levels and the effects on our head of hair is well documented. However, it's also well documented in the matters of thyroid replacement that once your thyroid levels are returned to normal, if the problems were thyroid related then it's highly likely that your hair problems will subside (how long this takes will depend on how long your cycle was, though I've personally done an 8 week 150mcg cycle for example and noticd my hair regrowing within a few weeks after running the recovery protocol detailed in this FAQ) . I personally notice significant hair thinning and pattern baldness on higher doses of T3 (75mcg upwards), which are reversed when my T3 levels are normalised.

As with most T3 side effects, this effect comes from having abnormal thyroid hormone levels in the blood as opposed to from the med itself. Hair loss can also be caused by low levels of T4 - since taking T3 suppresses T4, if you're experiencing hair loss as a side effect, you may consider running T4 along with your T3 on future cycles.

I've seen a few posts around the internet that suggest that Finasteride (AKA Propecia or Proscar) can be used in conjunction with T3 in order to combat this hair loss - however, this is not the case. Finasteride simply stops the conversion of testosterone to DHT, the primary cause of male pattern baldness, via the prevention of action of the 5-alpha reductase enzyme. Since hair-related side effects from high thyroid levels are in no way linked to DHT levels, Finasteride will not work.

*What about other T3 side effects?*

The potential side effects of T3 generally come from there being excess thyroid hormone in the body (i.e. hyperthyroid symptoms) as opposed to coming from the actual med itself. The potential sides are listed HERE, however, they're only potential sides. Myself and many I've known to use T3 in doses of 100+mcg have generally found our T3 usage to be mostly side-effect free or at least tolerable, but as I've mentioned the longer you run these higher doses then side effects can start creeping in - towards the end of a lengthy high dosed cycle I started to notice hair thinning and palpitations, for which I would have came off anyway but luckily I was already approaching the end of the cycle, and these side effects subsided once I lowered the dose to a maintenance dose of 37.5mcg. I advise you to keep note of the potential side effects and cease use of T3 if you become aware of any cause for concern. Of course, if the side effects persist, see your doctor.

One side effect that does bother me with T3 is heat sensitivity or intolerance. If you're prone to this side effect (you'll feel considerably warmer than normal at all times, and generally feel weak and dizzy in hot conditions) then you may wish to avoid taking T3 during the summer months. I'm normally a lover of the hot summer months but on T3 I just can't seem to tolerate the hot weather. Another is susceptibility to headaches - I'm normally fairly prone to them anyway, but on high doses T3 I was getting them pretty regularly.

Just to reiterate - the higher the doses and the longer you run them, the worse the side effects tend to get. A sensible dose of 50mcg should be very tolerable.

*I'm approaching PCT - when should I come off the T3?*

I'd advise coming off the T3 a couple of weeks before you start PCT, using the recovery protocol discussed earlier. In my view, it's a bad idea to have your metabolism recovering at the same time that you're also trying to restore your other hormone levels, in terms of maintaining your current body composition. Protein synthesis will be poor at this time as it is, the last thing you'd want is to make it even worse by going into PCT with a slowed down metabolism and even worse protein synthesis.

*Will I still get fat drinking alcohol whilst using T3?*

In my experience, yes. Alcohol supposedly slows down all other processes in the body in order to prioritise ridding the body of the alcohol - this seemingly includes the metabolism, even with exogenous thyroid hormones circulating in the body. Drink cautiously


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

An interesting read, thanks for sharing


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

Can someone give me a rough estimate of how much say 100mcg of T3 increases your BMR by?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes said:


> Can someone give me a rough estimate of how much say 100mcg of T3 increases your BMR by?


It'd be lovely to have even a ballpark figure :laugh: But really it depends on what your TDEE and thyroid function was like in the first place as well as how sensitive you are to the T3 (there's generally not an astronomical amount of difference in sensitivity between users, but certainly enough to make a difference).


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Great post mate. :thumbup1:

You have way too much time on your hands though


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Good post and I fully agree with stopping dead rather than tapering down. No sense in it at all.

I'm up to 100mcg just now and going to run for a week or 2 and assess. It really is a wonderful compound. That combined the with Sibutramine is keeping my hunger well at bay and losing the weight has been effortless to date. 24lbs down to date.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Great post mate. :thumbup1:
> 
> You have way too much time on your hands though


Thanks pal  Nah tbh it's more down to having regularly worked with computers for the last 10+ years and being able to type fast, this lot took me less than an hour to write up. Though my post count:time being a member ratio does indeed suggest that I have too much time on my hands, I know


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Good post.

Here's a question for you:

I have natural hypothyroidism and take 100mcg of T4 every day.

I'm currently taking 50mcg of T3 for fat loss (done it before and recovered fine), but also taking my 100mcg of T4 every day as prescribed.

Are you saying that, if I'm taking that T3, the T4 I'm taking is not being converted or used?

I would personally prefer this, as I'm also on DNP which stops the conversion of T4 to T3, and this current 50mcg T3 and 100mcg T4 dosage allows me to feel fine. However, my worry is that when I come off DNP and continue to take the T3 and T4 for another week (as I plan to do as part of my cycle), the conversion of T4 to T3 might start up again and then I might get a sudden surge in T3 as I'm taking my T3 daily dose and then the T4 dose starts to take effect as well.

I'm quite sensitive to T3 (75mcg seems too much to me, unless the T4 is already playing a part so it's like I'm taking 75mcg of T3 all along...) so I'd rather be cautious.


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## Bora (Dec 27, 2011)

great post, worth a stickie i thinks


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

I said:


> Thanks pal  Nah tbh it's more down to having regularly worked with computers for the last 10+ years and being able to type fast' date=' this lot took me less than an hour to write up. Though my post count:time being a member ratio does indeed suggest that I have too much time on my hands, I know  [/quote']
> 
> Haha fair enough
> 
> So T4 is used for under active thyroids, yeah?


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

> How's it going UK-M? So I've noticed that T3 is a very asked-about drug on these forums. I've been messing around with thyroid hormones for quite some time now and done a LOT of research and reading about them, and as I've discussed my experiences in recent months on these forums I've been asked a lot of questions about the various aspects of thyroid hormones, T3 in particular. I like to think myself knowledgeable on the topic and have been labelled so by several other forum users here, so I figured I'd make a write-up to answer some of the questions I get asked the most.
> 
> Some of the ideas here are going to go against seemingly popular knowledge or increasingly popular knowledge - however, I'm just going by my experience with this drug, and by the good feedback I've gotten from others based on their results after I've given them advice. If you disagree with my interpretation of something here, feel free to disregard it and use your own judgement, you may indeed find that a slightly different approach works better for you 1: This is simply a list of common questions regarding T3, and my answers and advice based on my own experiences.
> 
> ...


Interesting read


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Deadcalm said:


> Good post.
> 
> Here's a question for you:
> 
> ...


Generally, yeah, logic tells us that if there's enough T3 in the body already then supplying it with T4 won't force the body to produce even more T3, so I'd see no need to keep taking T4. There's the theory that if you're using GH then you should be using T4 as well as T3 due to issues with deiodinase enzymes and so on when using GH, but otherwise I don't see it necessary.


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

@Dan94 yeah t4 convers to t3 IF the body is lacking it so it will only use as much as is needed after that it wont convert anymore

Subbed dude good read 

I think aha correct me if im wrong


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

I said:


> Generally' date=' yeah, logic tells us that if there's enough T3 in the body already then supplying it with T4 won't force the body to produce even more T3, so I'd see no need to keep taking T4. There's the theory that if you're using GH then you should be using T4 as well as T3 due to issues with deiodinase enzymes and so on when using GH, but otherwise I don't see it necessary.[/quote']
> 
> The main reason is that it's my prescribed dose and I know T4 has a half-life of 5-7 days, so I don't want to stop talking it and lower the build-up which has occurred in my system when, medically, I need it.
> 
> I'm just concerned really if the T4 is currently not being utilised but the may suddenly become active when I come off the DNP, but if taking T3 will stop any T4 conversion anyway, then it's not an issue.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Deadcalm said:


> The main reason is that it's my prescribed dose and I know T4 has a half-life of 5-7 days, so I don't want to stop talking it and lower the build-up which has occurred in my system when, medically, I need it.
> 
> I'm just concerned really if the T4 is currently not being utilised but the may suddenly become active when I come off the DNP, but if taking T3 will stop any T4 conversion anyway, then it's not an issue.


Well, you're not mega-dosing your T3 and 100mcg of T4 isn't much at all, so if you feel better (I can see where you're coming from btw) continuing to take the T4 then go for it mate, you won't come to any harm


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Haha fair enough
> 
> So T4 is used for under active thyroids, yeah?


Yeah mate, T4 is generally a better regulator of normal thyroid levels, whereas with T3 generally the more you put in, the higher your free T3 levels and metabolic rate go.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

I said:


> Yeah mate' date=' T4 is generally a better regulator of normal thyroid levels, whereas with T3 generally the more you put in, the higher your free T3 levels and metabolic rate go.[/quote']
> 
> Cheers! & @Little Johnson
> 
> Always wondered as I have a friend who has under active thyroid and his thyroid meds don't make his muscle go aha


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

No worries mate 

@imnotapervert doesnt t4 convert at a smaller rate too? Like 25mcg converts to 12.5mcg of t3?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Right, time to go pester the admins to get this added to my sig


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

little_johnson said:


> No worries mate
> 
> @imnotapervert doesnt t4 convert at a smaller rate too? Like 25mcg converts to 12.5mcg of t3?


Even more mate, you probably missed it in the post which is fair enough as it's bloody long :laugh: but I discussed the ratios in it, very basic ratio of 1:4 in terms of T3:T4 (so that's 100mcg of T4 to 25mcg of T3).


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

Ahh sorry was just more interested on the duration that it can be used like your example of 30 years aha mental  an ive subbed it anyways helpful to look back onto it

Ahh thought it was a small ratio but thats quite less aha


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## iMunkie (Aug 10, 2011)

Really incredible read - I will have to re-read a few times to take in all the facts but that is absolutely brilliant as a resource  Thank you!


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

little_johnson said:


> Ahh sorry was just more interested on the duration that it can be used like your example of 30 years aha mental  an ive subbed it anyways helpful to look back onto it
> 
> Ahh thought it was a small ratio but thats quite less aha


Yeah it's a bloody long thread so I wouldn't expect anyone to digest it all in one read haha, as you said it can always be referred back to as and when needed :thumbup1:


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## irish86 (Oct 16, 2014)

Cheers for putting that together mate, ive been researching T3 alot recently as I think my next cutting cycle will be Test/Tren/T3 , this thread hammered home a few areas I was unsure about


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Will read in bed tonight mate, will be very useful.

Cheers ????


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## Will2309 (Jan 15, 2012)

Very good read, I was thinking of adding something extra at the end of my cycle when I start my cut with tren.

T3 sounds like the one.


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## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

Mate this is great stuff. You have helped me tons with T3 stuff in the past and I am now a big fan of the compound.

This should be stickied in my opinion. @Mingster what you reckon?


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## marcusmaximus (Jan 7, 2014)

+1 for sticky, these questions are asked all the time. Good job OP


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Cheers boyo's  You know, I briefly discussed bulking with T3, but never added in guidelines for it haha. Will add later. Might also write about staying on long-term.


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## rjnf (Jan 31, 2015)

i started T3 at 50 mg and 3 days after i raised to 75 mg. I only made 2 days at 75 mg.

Now after i read your post , you said that you raised only after 2 weeks or so. For me its better to go down to 50 mg for 2 weeks and raise after or stay at 75 mg and raise to 100 after 4 weeks?


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## Jon.B (Mar 8, 2011)

Good post :thumbup1:


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## icamero1 (Jul 3, 2009)

I said:


> Cheers boyo's  You know' date=' I briefly discussed bulking with T3, but never added in guidelines for it haha. Will add later. Might also write about staying on long-term.[/quote']
> 
> guidelines for T3 whilst bulking would be good :thumbup1:


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

Sticky thisss mods!


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## GermanShark94 (Jan 24, 2015)

Good Post. So i have a theoretical question some of You might have thought about. If t3 raises metabolism for therefore fat burning. Wouldn't it also speed up protein synthesis and therefore repair muscle faster? And maybe even build muscle?


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## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

little_johnson said:


> Sticky thisss mods!


On what background?

No offence just asking


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

GermanShark94 said:


> Good Post. So i have a theoretical question some of You might have thought about. If t3 raises metabolism for therefore fat burning. Wouldn't it also speed up protein synthesis and therefore repair muscle faster? And maybe even build muscle?


Yes. Some guys actually use a low dose of T3 to increase muscle synthesis whilst on cycle.


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

@I'mNotAPervert! Is taking clen when you come off t3 a bad idea


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## GermanShark94 (Jan 24, 2015)

Deadcalm said:


> Yes. Some guys actually use a low dose of T3 to increase muscle synthesis whilst on cycle.


I m running Test, Eq, Clen right now.

i thought about adding some t3. so would you say it would be benefical for protein synthesis to add t3 at 25mcg and once i go off clen kick it up to 50/75 whatever to keep fatloss going?


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

GermanShark94 said:


> I m running Test, Eq, Clen right now.
> 
> i thought about adding some t3. so would you say it would be benefical for protein synthesis to add t3 at 25mcg and once i go off clen kick it up to 50/75 whatever to keep fatloss going?


It really depends what your existing thyroid levels are like. 25mcg could either just be replacing what you naturally reduce, or slightly increasing your base level and increasing muscle synthesis.

Give it a try and see how it goes. Increase if necessary to perhaps 37.5mcg at the most (1 and a half 25mcg pills). At the very least, it'll certainly help you bulk at the same rate whilst staying leaner. I'm sure there's a few guys on here who take 50mcg every day on bulking cycles and gain muscle whilst staying incredibly lean, but I can't vouch for that personally as I've never tried it.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

GermanShark94 said:


> Good Post. So i have a theoretical question some of You might have thought about. If t3 raises metabolism for therefore fat burning. Wouldn't it also speed up protein synthesis and therefore repair muscle faster? And maybe even build muscle?


Yep, all this is already answered in the OP matey :wink:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Abc987 said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! Is taking clen when you come off t3 a bad idea


Not a bad idea, might actually find it beneficial to run other fat burners during recovery.


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## monkeez (Mar 5, 2013)

Great post mate.

Got a question for you @I'mNotAPervert! If you're taking T3 with your summer cycle to cut for a holiday is it best to stop the T3 a couple of weeks before you go away?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

monkeez said:


> Great post mate.
> 
> Got a question for you @I'mNotAPervert! If you're taking T3 with your summer cycle to cut for a holiday is it best to stop the T3 a couple of weeks before you go away?


Well, people tend to loosen up their diet and have a bit of a drink on holiday, so yeah I'd look at getting my thyroid running again before I went :wink:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

icamero1 said:


> guidelines for T3 whilst bulking would be good :thumbup1:


Added :thumbup1:


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## Dogbolt (Jun 23, 2009)

Very interesting read, I'm been researching T3 a bit and found something mentioning an increase in heart weight. Is this only on long term use or what? I can't find a definite answer. Also, it looks like using beta blockers with T3 could be a good idea for the other heart issues maybe?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dogbolt said:


> Very interesting read, I'm been researching T3 a bit and found something mentioning an increase in heart weight. Is this only on long term use or what? I can't find a definite answer. Also, it looks like using beta blockers with T3 could be a good idea for the other heart issues maybe?


There was a study done (albeit on rats, but still valid I feel) that whilst beta blockers help with tachycardia and palpitations when using T3, they won't help with increases in heart weight. T3 plus high doses of beta-blockers: effects on energy intake, body composition, bat and heart in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Either way, as I said if you feel like something isn't right then stop taking T3 immediately, or if you have a pre-existing condition then don't take it. Most people with a healthy cardiovascular system shouldn't have an issue.


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## Dogbolt (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks for the reply, do you know any more about the heart weight issue? Will that go back to normal on stopping T3?


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## froob (Apr 7, 2008)

Hey, sorry to be brazen (if im not allowed to ask this question then ill edit it out), but how do you find a "Reputable" source for T3? - just to point out im not asking directly for a source website, just how to find one. I mean I can find loads of websites selling it, but who to trust?

Thanks.


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## SwollNP (Oct 8, 2014)

Whats your views on running at 25mcg ED for roughly 10-12 weeks?

PS this should be a sticky..


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## Mikkeltaylor (Jun 10, 2014)

One thing not mentioned was the half life. Seen other conflicting posts on other threads and just wondered what your views were? Do you take just one dose a day?


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## little_johnson (Dec 7, 2014)

Cant remember the exact half life but im sure its around 30 hours either way you only need to take it once daily


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## Dogbolt (Jun 23, 2009)

One more question for the T3 experts. If running T3 to cut down for a holiday, would it be best to stop a few weeks before going, or continue whilst away at a low dose, then stop when back. I'm thinking about the fact when away calories go through the roof with beer and snacks etc, and as I don't get away much I'm planning on a bit of a blowout.


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## SwollNP (Oct 8, 2014)

What's peoples views on a T3/T4 mix product??


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## MrSilver (Aug 4, 2014)

Good read, answered a lot of questions I always wondered about the stuff.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Answered all my questions pretty much, repzzz


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## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

This FAQ is responsible for my love of t3...



Pretty stocked up!


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## icamero1 (Jul 3, 2009)

I said:


> There was a study done (albeit on rats' date=' but still valid I feel) that whilst beta blockers help with tachycardia and palpitations when using T3, they won't help with increases in heart weight. T3 plus high doses of beta-blockers: effects on energy intake, body composition, bat and heart in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
> 
> Either way, as I said if you feel like something isn't right then stop taking T3 immediately, or if you have a pre-existing condition then don't take it. Most people with a healthy cardiovascular system shouldn't have an issue.


the t3 tabs iv got are 100mg, and are tiny so cant really split in two. would it be better to start at 100mg every two days? or try and split in half and do 50mg pd? cheers


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

icamero1 said:


> the t3 tabs iv got are 100mg, and are tiny so cant really split in two. would it be better to start at 100mg every two days? or try and split in half and do 50mg pd? cheers


If you can split them in half then I'd do that mate, whacking in 100mcg right of the bat might be a bit of a shock to the system but if you have to then it shouldn't be a big issue, in which case yeah just one every other day :thumbup1:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

SwollNP said:


> What's peoples views on a T3/T4 mix product??


I've used Bitiron before which I think you may be referring to  They were good tbf, but as I said in the FAQ running T4 when you're already running borderline supraphysiological doses of T3 is, in most cases, a bit pointless.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dogbolt said:


> One more question for the T3 experts. If running T3 to cut down for a holiday, would it be best to stop a few weeks before going, or continue whilst away at a low dose, then stop when back. I'm thinking about the fact when away calories go through the roof with beer and snacks etc, and as I don't get away much I'm planning on a bit of a blowout.


Dunno if I answered this question on another thread very recently or someone else asked a very similar question, sorry for the late reply anyway as I've only just seen it... either way you have two choices - stay on throughout the holiday (not that smuggling T3 and AAS abroad is something that should be taken lightly) or come off a few weeks before the holiday and recover full thyroid function before you go. I think the latter is the more sensible option but the first option will allow you more leeway


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

great post this


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## SwollNP (Oct 8, 2014)

I said:


> I've used Bitiron before which I think you may be referring to  They were good tbf' date=' but as I said in the FAQ running T4 when you're already running borderline supraphysiological doses of T3 is, in most cases, a bit pointless.[/quote']
> 
> Yeah I had thought that..
> 
> Cheers for getting back to me!


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## Dogbolt (Jun 23, 2009)

I said:


> Dunno if I answered this question on another thread very recently or someone else asked a very similar question' date=' sorry for the late reply anyway as I've only just seen it... either way you have two choices - stay on throughout the holiday (not that smuggling T3 and AAS abroad is something that should be taken lightly) or come off a few weeks before the holiday and recover full thyroid function before you go. I think the latter is the more sensible option but the first option will allow you more leeway  [/quote']
> 
> Thanks for the reply, I've decided to go for the first option now anyway, going to lower the dose to 25mcg a week before I go and stick with that throughout the holiday. I'm not too fussed about taking the stuff with me as I've had to take a load of prescription meds with me for years now and no one takes a second look at it. It's only pharma T3 anyway, I'm not taking any other AAS with me.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dogbolt said:


> Thanks for the reply, I've decided to go for the first option now anyway, going to lower the dose to 25mcg a week before I go and stick with that throughout the holiday. I'm not too fussed about taking the stuff with me as I've had to take a load of prescription meds with me for years now and no one takes a second look at it. It's only pharma T3 anyway, I'm not taking any other AAS with me.


I wouldn't be running T3 without AAS mate, even 25mcg. Not unless you don't mind the potential muscle loss.


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## baconstrips (Mar 31, 2011)

I said:


> I wouldn't be running T3 without AAS mate' date=' even 25mcg. Not unless you don't mind the potential muscle loss.[/quote']
> 
> I know you have said the flatness is maybe overhyped and down to diet someone on 50-75 dropping down to 25mcg how long would you say this potential flatness takes to go away while on T3?
> 
> Would also like to pick you brain on opinions on dosing T3 differently each few days ive seen people say they have had a bad diet day and taken more t3, surely this doesnt work? You cant just suddenly speed the thyroid up loads for one day then drop back down to the dose before, i presume a steady dose is needed and if you want to up the dose you need that dose for a good few days first?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

baconstrips said:


> I know you have said the flatness is maybe overhyped and down to diet someone on 50-75 dropping down to 25mcg how long would you say this potential flatness takes to go away while on T3?
> 
> Would also like to pick you brain on opinions on dosing T3 differently each few days ive seen people say they have had a bad diet day and taken more t3, surely this doesnt work? You cant just suddenly speed the thyroid up loads for one day then drop back down to the dose before, i presume a steady dose is needed and if you want to up the dose you need that dose for a good few days first?


The real problem is mate, without some AAS, as I talked about in the OP there's potential for actual muscle loss rather than simple flatness. Flatness is temporary glycogen depletion, that will spring back when you raise your calories, whereas actual muscle breakdown from not using AAS with T3 means you're gonna have to actually rebuild some muscle to look bigger again :wink:

T3 is fast acting, so technically it could work if done right - problem is, if they get 3/4 of the way through the day and think "Crap, I've even too much today, better add in some T3 to burn some calories" then nope, that's not gonna work - not only has the food has already been metabolised but chances are that they won't be taking it on an empty stomach, which is gonna interfere with the absorption. I wouldn't advise the approach at all and instead advise a bit of self control, but I guess if you know you're gonna be eating quite a bit that day then take a higher than normal dose on an empty stomach in the morning to ensure a higher TDEE for that day. As I said though you're better off just having a bit of discipline :wink:


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

baconstrips said:


> I know you have said the flatness is maybe overhyped and down to diet someone on 50-75 dropping down to 25mcg how long would you say this potential flatness takes to go away while on T3?
> 
> Would also like to pick you brain on opinions on dosing T3 differently each few days ive seen people say they have had a bad diet day and taken more t3, surely this doesnt work? You cant just suddenly speed the thyroid up loads for one day then drop back down to the dose before, i presume a steady dose is needed and if you want to up the dose you need that dose for a good few days first?


Just wanted to add on to what @I'mNotAPervert! Said below and say that if you are on AAS and t3 you can look full again within a week by just going into a calorie surplus.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Just wanted to add on to what @I'mNotAPervert! Said below and say that if you are on AAS and t3 you can look full again within a week by just going into a calorie surplus.


Indeed :thumbup1: Think he's confusing flatness and actual muscle loss, two completely different things - the whole point is of course to use AAS with T3 to avoid muscle loss, otherwise you WILL lose muscle... whereas even with AAS you'll experience flatness at higher doses of T3 and a deficit, but as we've both said it's very temporary, whereas without AAS you will actually lose muscle which is going to take several workouts to restore.

I'll repeat just to make it clear - do NOT use T3 without AAS, people. Flatness is fine and totally temporary, muscle loss is to be avoided at all costs and will take hard work to fix if it occurs.


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## Dogbolt (Jun 23, 2009)

Sorry, what I meant is I wont be taking any with me on holiday. I'll jab 600mg test before I go.


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## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

@I'mNotAPervert! Say i've got 7 weeks to cut for my holiday and I want to use t3 but don't want to be flat while on holiday + have the lower thyroid as you can put weight on easily if i'm right?

How would you go about it all...? Will be using alongside test/tren


----------



## baconstrips (Mar 31, 2011)

Dan TT said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! Say i've got 7 weeks to cut for my holiday and I want to use t3 but don't want to be flat while on holiday + have the lower thyroid as you can put weight on easily if i'm right?
> 
> How would you go about it all...? Will be using alongside test/tren


Basically in my sitch im just doing 50mcg the hunger isnt too bad at this dose and if your taking it with you go to 25mcg before holiday and up the carbs like recommended above and just run it while away


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dan TT said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! Say i've got 7 weeks to cut for my holiday and I want to use t3 but don't want to be flat while on holiday + have the lower thyroid as you can put weight on easily if i'm right?
> 
> How would you go about it all...? Will be using alongside test/tren


Come off 2-3 weeks before the holiday mate and "reverse diet" back up, when the T3's out of your system and you've reintroduced some carbs over the space of a few weeks the flatness will have gone by your holiday


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## baconstrips (Mar 31, 2011)

I said:


> Come off 2-3 weeks before the holiday mate and "reverse diet" back up' date=' when the T3's out of your system and you've reintroduced some carbs over the space of a few weeks the flatness will have gone by your holiday  [/quote']
> 
> You think thats a better plan, i figured if i can take it with me 25mcg and carbs wont yeild any flatness, thanks


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

baconstrips said:


> You think thats a better plan, i figured if i can take it with me 25mcg and carbs wont yeild any flatness, thanks


Yeah as I said mate it's gonna be a bit dodgy taking AAS overseas, and running T3 without any AAS, in terms of muscle maintenance, will be foolish - no amount of calories or carbs will prevent muscle breakdown I'm afraid as the protein breakdown:synthesis balance will be out of whack. I know some of the lads on here have taken their AAS abroad and you can get away with it if you're smart/sneaky, but there's a definite risk of getting caught and in trouble.


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## acormus (Apr 10, 2013)

My personal exp. With t3: it ****s with your bloodglucose levels. So if you dont want to risk getting diabetic stop from time to time.


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## G (Mar 11, 2013)

How long are you on holiday and what ester are you using?


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## onree (Feb 18, 2015)

Some great info there!

Not so sure on taking the UG lab T3 I've ordered now though. :confused1:


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## Ame416612 (Jun 10, 2015)

Robbie789 said:


> Answered all my questions pretty much, repzzz


How and where may I find?

Is there any legit and proven websites that deliver to the UNITED STATES?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Ame416612 said:


> How and where may I find?
> 
> Is there any legit and proven websites that deliver to the UNITED STATES?


Send a private message to the mods asking for a source, I'm sure they'll know exactly what to do

:lol:


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

After having experienced a bit of hair loss from T3 use and subsequent regain, and doing plenty of research on the topic, I've added in a section to the OP  Second-to-last question for anyone interested.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

I said:


> After having experienced a bit of hair loss from T3 use and subsequent regain' date=' and doing plenty of research on the topic, I've added in a section to the OP  Second-to-last question for anyone interested.[/quote']
> 
> I actually didn't notice this when I was researching t3 prior to using.
> 
> ...


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Jalex said:


> I actually didn't notice this when I was researching t3 prior to using.
> 
> Been using 4 week snow at 50mcg and not noticed any additional shedding to what I was expereincing on test/anavar.
> 
> Knowing this, I probably wouldn't of went ahead and used. But now I am 4 weeks in at 50mcg ED, I imagine if I was going to have any bad shedding/adverse effects they would of appeared by now?


50mcg is a moderate dose anyway mate which probably won't cause any hair loss for most people. But yeah, just to re-iterate, any hair loss and/or thinning from T3 use is generally temporary and will grow back when T3 levels are normalised, either through dropping the dose or discontinuing T3 and then restoring normal thyroid function.


----------



## Hancock (Jun 3, 2015)

From what I can gather from you guys, it is better to run a pharma grade T3 over the likes of hacks?

I'm on a cruise now for 8 weeks after running hacks for 12 weeks and got good results. I could no longer get hacks so I could only get my hands on Uni Pharma. Do you think Uni Pharma is any good and have any of you used them before?

They are 25mg tablets and 30 in a box.

@I'mNotAPervert! great thread indeed, I learned a lot.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Hancock said:


> From what I can gather from you guys, it is better to run a pharma grade T3 over the likes of hacks?
> 
> I'm on a cruise now for 8 weeks after running hacks for 12 weeks and got good results. I could no longer get hacks so I could only get my hands on Uni Pharma. Do you think Uni Pharma is any good and have any of you used them before?
> 
> ...


Running lower doses like 50mcg or even up to 75mcg, you shouldn't have a problem. It's more if you're running 100 or more, then you have an overdosed tab and before you know it you're on nearly 200mcg all of a sudden which some may not tolerate well if it's suddenly introduced.

Uni Pharma is good, shame about the price though :laugh:


----------



## Hancock (Jun 3, 2015)

> Running lower doses like 50mcg or even up to 75mcg, you shouldn't have a problem. It's more if you're running 100 or more, then you have an overdosed tab and before you know it you're on nearly 200mcg all of a sudden which some may not tolerate well if it's suddenly introduced.
> 
> Uni Pharma is good, shame about the price though :laugh:


Cheers man. Yea the price Is simply stupid :lol:

Hopefully see better results with the pharma though can't complain with the hacks mind you


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Okay got a question.

@I'mNotAPervert!

We know there's the risk of muscle loss.

Now, could we put this down to insufficient protein intake OR too low calories (after t3's accounted for). Or a combination of both (I.e not enough protein in a deficit).

Think that makes sense


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Okay got a question.
> 
> @I'mNotAPervert!
> 
> ...


I spoke on this topic in there somewhere, but it's pretty ****ing long winded so yeah :laugh: It's literally a case of T3 increasing both protein synthesis and breakdown. By default, it marginally increases breakdown more than synthesis, and the more you take the bigger the margin gets. This is why it's vital to take some sort of AAS with it - to eliminate the breakdown of protiens (i.e. muscle) whilst still allowing synthesis. There's also the fact that we can synthesise more proteins on AAS than we can naturally which affects things too. Obviously even with this boost in protein synthesis we're still not going to build muscle in a deficit since it also takes a surplus of calories to do so, but in a surplus we can certainly make use of the extra boost  As I mentioned as well, thyroid hormones contribute towards growth and development which may help the growing bodybuilder.


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## gibbo10 (May 16, 2013)

Could having bcaa's shortly after taking t3 affect the absorption


----------



## chickenjunkie (Jan 6, 2015)

Gonna jump on a 8 week cycle of T3 along with Clen , TBOL 60 mg and Anavar 100mg in a few weeks.

Will i still be able to make lean gains? while reducing bodyfat or do i need injectibles.


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## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

I didn't take my t3 for about 4-5 days last week and I definitely felt a lot more sluggish the days after, was tired all the time!

How many weeks before my holiday should I drop my t3? But problem is I don't want to get lean using t3 then the 2-3 week wait till my holiday off t3, pile it back on. :thumbdown: Suggestions?


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Dan TT said:


> I didn't take my t3 for about 4-5 days last week and I definitely felt a lot more sluggish the days after, was tired all the time!
> 
> How many weeks before my holiday should I drop my t3? But problem is I don't want to get lean using t3 then the 2-3 week wait till my holiday off t3, pile it back on.  Suggestions?


My suggestion would be to keep diet clean and eat maintenance or below and you won't put anything back on


----------



## zeevolution (Aug 24, 2013)

good Q&A type post. thanks!


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Ame416612 said:


> How and where may I find?
> 
> Is there any legit and proven websites that deliver to the UNITED STATES?


Ask Ronnie Pickering!


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

@I'mNotAPervert! is the general consensus still that 500mg test is ample to stave off muscle loss?

i didnt wana go nuts on this cutter, been running a fair bit of tren over the last year so left it out of this blast 

decided to ease up a little and just run 500mg of test and 50mcg of T3


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

> @I'mNotAPervert! is the general consensus still that 500mg test is ample to stave off muscle loss?
> 
> i didnt wana go nuts on this cutter, been running a fair bit of tren over the last year so left it out of this blast
> 
> decided to ease up a little and just run 500mg of test and 50mcg of T3


500mg with 50mcg T3 is plenty mate


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

When does the flu like symptoms usually pass?

As soon as I upped to 75mcg I started aching all over and being extremely fatigued

Is this a sign I need to lower the dose or is this just what an effective dose feels like?


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> How's it going UK-M? So I've noticed that T3 is a very asked-about drug on these forums. I've been messing around with thyroid hormones for quite some time now and done a LOT of research and reading about them, and as I've discussed my experiences in recent months on these forums I've been asked a lot of questions about the various aspects of thyroid hormones, T3 in particular. I like to think myself knowledgeable on the topic and have been labelled so by several other forum users here, so I figured I'd make a write-up to answer some of the questions I get asked the most.
> 
> There are a lot of myths surrounding this drug, many of which have been long debunked by scientific research and testing but yet they still stand, so I've taken it upon myself to help identify these myths and state what I believe to be the facts based on hard evidence and the experiences of myself and others. Naturally, some of the ideas here are going to fly in the face of seemingly popular current knowledge - however, I'm just going by my experience with this drug, my research and the good feedback I've gotten from others based on their results after I've given them advice, and will provide evidence and data where necessary. If you disagree with my interpretation of something here, feel free to disregard it and use your own judgement, other approaches do work (albeit to a lesser degree IMO) and you may indeed find that a slightly different approach sits better with you :thumbup1:
> 
> ...


 really good read thanks for sharing m8 :thumb


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> When does the flu like symptoms usually pass?
> 
> As soon as I upped to 75mcg I started aching all over and being extremely fatigued
> 
> Is this a sign I need to lower the dose or is this just what an effective dose feels like?


 Missed this post, how are you getting on now mate? I wouldn't go as far as to say being fluey is a symptom and you may well be getting ill, muscle aches and fatigue are fairly common though.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Missed this post, how are you getting on now mate? I wouldn't go as far as to say being fluey is a symptom and you may well be getting ill, muscle aches and fatigue are fairly common though.


 Had to drop to 50mcg and trying a recomp but seem to just be losing weight lol, strong sh1t this stuff

I felt like I was terminally ill on 75mcg, maybe too much too soon?

I may edge it back up when fat loss stalls but any whiff of how I felt before then and ill have to drop back down

I was sleeping 9 hours a night then 1-2 hour nap, aching all over my back and traps and work was a nightmare to get through

Could have been coincidently ill around the time I upped the dose and that just added to it


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

swole troll said:


> Had to drop to 50mcg and trying a recomp but seem to just be losing weight lol, strong sh1t this stuff
> 
> I felt like I was terminally ill on 75mcg, maybe too much too soon?
> 
> ...


 What gear and calories are you on Swolle


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Drogon said:


> What gear and calories are you on Swolle


 750mg test (prop and enth)

400mg NPP

3500kcal

6'3

102.7kg literally dropping ED, i havnt changed calories at all nor increased my cardio and since starting T3 i was 105kg to current weight which isnt too shabby considering ive been on 8-10 days now..

pretty sure imnotpervert mentioned in the op that you cant really judge weight loss in the first 2-3 weeks because of the amount of water weight loss but i only started the gear 3 weeks ago so you can assume that my weight would have been going up especially with nandrolone and moderate dose test retaining water and glycogen

definitely not getting weaker by any means and dont appear flat, could be an ideal dose for me to recomp, we'll see

im not doing anything severe with calories either way as hip still giving me grief


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## goldie123 (Jul 31, 2011)

swole troll said:


> 750mg test (prop and enth)
> 
> 400mg NPP
> 
> ...


 Hey bro, how often are you injecting your NPP? I did mine e3d's, whats the least frequent you could get away with jabbing it do you think? Just the less injections the better lol


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> Had to drop to 50mcg and trying a recomp but seem to just be losing weight lol, strong sh1t this stuff
> 
> I felt like I was terminally ill on 75mcg, maybe too much too soon?
> 
> ...


 Yeah try edging it up again at some point and see if it happens again mate, you'll know for sure then. If 50mcg is doing that much for you then you might be really sensitive to it.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

goldie123 said:


> Hey bro, how often are you injecting your NPP? I did mine e3d's, whats the least frequent you could get away with jabbing it do you think? Just the less injections the better lol


 I've heard of 3 times weekly but I think you may suffer a slight dip over the w end with that frequency albeit likely unnoticeable I opted for 125mg eod


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Yeah try edging it up again at some point and see if it happens again mate, you'll know for sure then. If 50mcg is doing that much for you then you might be really sensitive to it.


 When should I try to up it?

It's hard to judge with a recomp as the aim is to maintain weight, I guess add another 25mcg if weight starts going up?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> When should I try to up it?
> 
> It's hard to judge with a recomp as the aim is to maintain weight, I guess add another 25mcg if weight starts going up?


 Yeah that's what I do when I'm cutting mate, just increase the dose when I could use a TDEE increase


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> *You've discussed using T3 whilst bulking and I've seen others mention it - any advice?*
> 
> As I've indeed discussed above, the use of T3 during bulking cycles is becoming increasingly popular. It increases protein synthesis and turnover rate and is thought to improve carbohydrate metabolism, and when combined with a high protein diet and AAS can lead to increased gains and minimised fat gain.
> 
> ...


 would you say that a caloric surplus would negate the strength loss from T3?

there's been a local comp being set up by a mate of mine and i was looking to take part, i was already running 75mcg of T3 and in a deficit but im thinking of switching around to a bulk leading into the comp in 9 weeks time

just wondered how much this is likely to effect my strength as i periodize my training to peak leading into to the comp would i be better to stay at 75mcg, drop to 25mcg (replacement dose) 50mcg or just stop now and start up 3 weeks of 12.5mcg as the 'pct' for T3 ?


----------



## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

swole troll said:


> would you say that a caloric surplus would negate the strength loss from T3?
> 
> there's been a local comp being set up by a mate of mine and i was looking to take part, i was already running 75mcg of T3 and in a deficit but im thinking of switching around to a bulk leading into the comp in 9 weeks time
> 
> just wondered how much this is likely to effect my strength as i periodize my training to peak leading into to the comp would i be better to stay at 75mcg, drop to 25mcg (replacement dose) 50mcg or just stop now and start up 3 weeks of 12.5mcg as the 'pct' for T3 ?


 No need for 12.5mcg pct just delays recovery. Stop cold turkey you'll be fine within a fortnight


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Drogon said:


> No need for 12.5mcg pct just delays recovery. Stop cold turkey you'll be fine within a fortnight


 i was considering this originally but a lot of the info ive gotten on T3 has been from this thread and in the OP imnotpervert states that using 12.5mcg ED for 2-3 weeks allows for recovery of the thyroid without bottomed out T3

basically a way to avoid either piling on the fat or eating a severe deficit while you wait for natural production to resume


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> would you say that a caloric surplus would negate the strength loss from T3?
> 
> there's been a local comp being set up by a mate of mine and i was looking to take part, i was already running 75mcg of T3 and in a deficit but im thinking of switching around to a bulk leading into the comp in 9 weeks time
> 
> just wondered how much this is likely to effect my strength as i periodize my training to peak leading into to the comp would i be better to stay at 75mcg, drop to 25mcg (replacement dose) 50mcg or just stop now and start up 3 weeks of 12.5mcg as the 'pct' for T3 ?


 There's a definite chance that it'll affect your strength, so yeah I'd drop way down or come off mate.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> i was considering this originally but a lot of the info ive gotten on T3 has been from this thread and in the OP imnotpervert states that using 12.5mcg ED for 2-3 weeks allows for recovery of the thyroid without bottomed out T3
> 
> basically a way to avoid either piling on the fat or eating a severe deficit while you wait for natural production to resume


 Need to edit the OP soon actually, used the protocol myself and bloods suggest it worked well  So I'll be adding my results in there as well.


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## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Need to edit the OP soon actually, used the protocol myself and bloods suggest it worked well  So I'll be adding my results in there as well.


 Awesome, I'm about to come off so I'll give this a go myself


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dr Gearhead said:


> Awesome, I'm about to come off so I'll give this a go myself


 Added my results to the OP. Just for anyone who can't be arsed to scroll through, a quick copy-paste for your convenience 

Before ever using T3:

Serum TSH level: 4.28 mu/L (0.35 - 5.50)

Serum Free T4 level: 18.5 pmol/L (10.3 - 22.7)

Serum Free T3 level: 4.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 6.5)

All normal

After a year on T3, having been on 50mcg for the last month:

Serum TSH level: 0.15 mu/L (0.35 - 5.50) "Abnormal"

Serum Free T4 level: 5.7 pmol/L (10.3 - 22.7) "Abnormal"

Serum Free T3 level: 6.1 pmol/L (3.5 - 6.5)

Exogenous T3 causing suppression of my TSH and T4 levels due to replacement, 50mcg appears to be a high-replacement dose for me and is higher than my normal level theoretically meaning a boost in TDEE

3 weeks later, 3 weeks of running the 12.5mcg protocol:

Serum TSH level: 3.81 mu/L (0.35 - 5.50)

Serum Free T4 level: 15.6 pmol/L (10.3 - 22.7)

Serum Free T3 level: 5.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 6.5)

Despite still being on 12.5mcg, TSH and T4 are normalised, albeit possibly mildly suppressed. T3 levels fully recovered and higher than before T3 was ever used.

I'd call my recovery a total success based on the above. I ate at what would normally be maintenance for me and gained 2lbs in weight between the start and the end of the protocol. I'd advise eating a bit below maintenance for the first week of the protocol.


----------



## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

@I'mNotAPervert!. Thanks for that mate very useful.

Quick unrelated question for you.

Do you have any knowledge regarding tren's suppression of natural T3. As a contingency do you think that running 12.5mg T3 while on tren would negate any potential down regulation whilst not shutting down the thyroid meaning you could come straight off the T3 without having to worry about rebound


----------



## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Added my results to the OP. Just for anyone who can't be arsed to scroll through, a quick copy-paste for your convenience
> 
> Before ever using T3:
> 
> ...


 @I'mNotAPervert! Ran 12.5mg for 2 weeks then another week of keeping carbs / cals low and actually leaned out while recovering. Upping cals now but fingers crossed looks like the protocol worked a treat. I'm leaner now than when I was on 50mg a day. Thank you your FAQ and this protocol in particular have been a massive help for me, much appreciated.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dr Gearhead said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! Ran 12.5mg for 2 weeks then another week of keeping carbs / cals low and actually leaned out while recovering. Upping cals now but fingers crossed looks like the protocol worked a treat. I'm leaner now than when I was on 50mg a day. Thank you your FAQ and this protocol in particular have been a massive help for me, much appreciated.


 Appreciate the feedback mate, knowing I've helped someone out makes it worth writing


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dr Gearhead said:


> @I'mNotAPervert!. Thanks for that mate very useful.
> 
> Quick unrelated question for you.
> 
> Do you have any knowledge regarding tren's suppression of natural T3. As a contingency do you think that running 12.5mg T3 while on tren would negate any potential down regulation whilst not shutting down the thyroid meaning you could come straight off the T3 without having to worry about rebound


 Missed this one, sorry for the mega late reply. I was talking to another member on here a few months ago about this actually and added a little something about T3 & tren in the FAQ somewhere. Basically I've known of a few people to ask me about this as they've said that tren and T3 is a powerful combo despite bloods suggesting rather average T3 levels. Tren is well documented to naturally suppress thyroid hormones, but at the same time it has metabolism-boosting effects of its own so nobody notices unless they happen to have thyroid bloods done on tren, which people obviously tend not to do because there's little reason to do so. So replacing the lost T3 while also having the boosting effects of tren explains why they're such a potent combo.

I'd say avoid running tren as a recovery protocol since the idea is to recover T3 levels and tren would likely suppress them which of course wouldn't be helpful. I'm not a tren expert tbh so I could be wrong, just suggesting makes sense to me though from what I do know


----------



## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Missed this one, sorry for the mega late reply. I was talking to another member on here a few months ago about this actually and added a little something about T3 & tren in the FAQ somewhere. Basically I've known of a few people to ask me about this as they've said that tren and T3 is a powerful combo despite bloods suggesting rather average T3 levels. Tren is well documented to naturally suppress thyroid hormones, but at the same time it has metabolism-boosting effects of its own so nobody notices unless they happen to have thyroid bloods done on tren, which people obviously tend not to do because there's little reason to do so. So replacing the lost T3 while also having the boosting effects of tren explains why they're such a potent combo.
> 
> I'd say avoid running tren as a recovery protocol since the idea is to recover T3 levels and tren would likely suppress them which of course wouldn't be helpful. I'm not a tren expert tbh so I could be wrong, just suggesting makes sense to me though from what I do know


 thanks for the info mate, sounds like running T3 while on Tren is not necessary but I'll keep it in mind. Thanks again mate, much appreciated


----------



## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

@I'mNotAPervert! Just thinking about starting a T3 course before my holiday mid July. Got 9 weeks. What would your recommended protocol be mate? Probs go 75-100mcg the highest. I think it would be a good idea to have come off the T3 before my holiday and allowed my thyroid function to be up to pace so I don't gain mega fat while on holiday cos I will tend to eat & drink quite a fair bit. Was thinking of stopping the T3 at week 6, running 12.5mcg for 2 weeks then the last week just leave it.


----------



## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

What t3 is everyone using?

uni? Tiromel?

cynomel was cheap and awesome but dissapeared


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dan TT said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! Just thinking about starting a T3 course before my holiday mid July. Got 9 weeks. What would your recommended protocol be mate? Probs go 75-100mcg the highest. I think it would be a good idea to have come off the T3 before my holiday and allowed my thyroid function to be up to pace so I don't gain mega fat while on holiday cos I will tend to eat & drink quite a fair bit. Was thinking of stopping the T3 at week 6, running 12.5mcg for 2 weeks then the last week just leave it.


 Yeah do that mate, sounds like a plan


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Growing Lad said:


> What t3 is everyone using?
> 
> uni? Tiromel?
> 
> cynomel was cheap and awesome but dissapeared


 I'm using Tiromel for low dose stuff atm, but when it comes to 75mcg upwards like I'm using atm I've got a bunch of 75mcg Triyotex (Mexican pharma cynomel) capsules, spot on they are


----------



## Plate (May 14, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> I'm using Tiromel for low dose stuff atm, but when it comes to 75mcg upwards like I'm using atm I've got a bunch of 75mcg Triyotex (Mexican pharma cynomel) capsules, spot on they are


 That you in ur Avi? If so you are looking fvckin good pal!


----------



## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Is the Mexican stuff back now? Or stuff you had previously?


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Plate said:


> That you in ur Avi? If so you are looking fvckin good pal!


 Cheers buddy, superb lighting NGL :lol: but I'm about 12% bodyfat atm, first time I've been under 200lbs in a long time but it's made me look bigger than I ever have funnily enough.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Growing Lad said:


> Is the Mexican stuff back now? Or stuff you had previously?


 It's the same stuff I had from last year but yeah, the same stuff can still be bought from the same place


----------



## Plate (May 14, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Cheers buddy, superb lighting NGL :lol: but I'm about 12% bodyfat atm, first time I've been under 200lbs in a long time but it's made me look bigger than I ever have funnily enough.


 Yeh never waste good lighting, or a good filter lol

sorry @richardrahl found my new fap Avi


----------



## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> It's the same stuff I had from last year but yeah, the same stuff can still be bought from the same place


 Cool Gna order some. You rate it yeh? taking one 75mcg tab a day? Weird dosing it that high


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Plate said:


> Yeh never waste good lighting, or a good filter lol
> 
> sorry @richardrahl found my new fap Avi


 @I'mNotAPervert! is looking mint, I'll give him that. Guess I'll have to up my game.

I'll be revealing more crack very soon. May even throw in a bit of 'sack from the back' and me looking over my shoulder... Watch this space.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Growing Lad said:


> Cool Gna order some. You rate it yeh? taking one 75mcg tab a day? Weird dosing it that high


 Yeah it works exactly as it should and it decently priced, good stuff. Strange dosing indeed though, but it makes it nice and easy for folk like us I guess :lol:


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

richardrahl said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! is looking mint, I'll give him that. Guess I'll have to up my game.
> 
> I'll be revealing more crack very soon. May even throw in a bit of 'sack from the back' and me looking over my shoulder... Watch this space.


 You've got me beat on back gains anyhoo :beer:


----------



## Plate (May 14, 2015)

richardrahl said:


> @I'mNotAPervert! is looking mint, I'll give him that. Guess I'll have to up my game.
> 
> I'll be revealing more crack very soon. May even throw in a bit of 'sack from the back' and me looking over my shoulder... Watch this space.


 i think that sort of Avi deserves its own unveiling thread and the obvious stuff like tissue and baby oil

I'm fvcked if my mrs ever goes over the sh1t I post on here how would I explain this sort of stuff haha


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Plate said:


> Yeh never waste good lighting, or a good filter lol


 Combination of fake tan and mild sunburn helps and all :lol:


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> You've got me beat on back gains anyhoo :beer:


 I don't train the front, mate. 



Plate said:


> i think that sort of Avi deserves its own unveiling thread and the obvious stuff like tissue and baby oil
> 
> I'm fvcked if my mrs ever goes over the sh1t I post on here how would I explain this sort of stuff haha


 I'll make sure it gets it's own thread. Need to shave my ass first though.

As for the other bit, I think your Mrs - should she ever gain access to your browser history - would be more concerned about all the shemale and beastiality porn you watch / produce. :whistling:

Hijack over. This is a good, informational thread that needs to be preserved, we can banter with Big Daddy. :thumbup1:


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

richardrahl said:


> I don't train the front, mate.


 Opposite with me mate, legs and back are too hard 

P.S. Hijack all you like, looks better with more pages :lol:


----------



## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Yeah do that mate, sounds like a plan


 You ever experienced a little pain in your chest from t3? More on the right side of my chest so kind of away from the heart left side. Not like sharp shooting pain or anything but like I could tell its there. I did a little googling last night at cytomel and chest pains seemed to be showing a bit.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Dan TT said:


> You ever experienced a little pain in your chest from t3? More on the right side of my chest so kind of away from the heart left side. Not like sharp shooting pain or anything but like I could tell its there. I did a little googling last night at cytomel and chest pains seemed to be showing a bit.


 It is a symptom mate, I'd never be able to tell myself though as I always get it from having anxiety anyway :lol: so it'd be no difference to me (had it checked out a few times but the docs say it's a combo of mild acid reflux and anxiety, nothing to worry about). People prescribed it do tend to get it even at low doses and by the looks of things docs just check them over and say it's nothing serious, but if you feel like something isn't right always best to cut it out.


----------



## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> It is a symptom mate, I'd never be able to tell myself though as I always get it from having anxiety anyway :lol: so it'd be no difference to me (had it checked out a few times but the docs say it's a combo of mild acid reflux and anxiety, nothing to worry about). People prescribed it do tend to get it even at low doses and by the looks of things docs just check them over and say it's nothing serious, but if you feel like something isn't right always best to cut it out.


 Right'o mate thats put my mind at rest a bit. Not had it today and felt fine while training, seem to go a bit light headed yesterday and our lass said I looked green/grey lol! Made myself better with a takeaway. Upping to 50mcg I think get rid of this bodyfat seen as I booked my holiday today!! :thumbup1:


----------



## monkeez (Mar 5, 2013)

So is it best to take your T3 in one go first thing in the morning or split the dose into two doses throughout the day?


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## VANE06 (Aug 21, 2014)

really good read many thanks.


----------



## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Added my results to the OP. Just for anyone who can't be arsed to scroll through, a quick copy-paste for your convenience
> 
> Before ever using T3:
> 
> ...


 Really good thread and post. How much more beneficial do you feel the 12.5mcg protocol is over simply stopping cold turkey?

Based on 50mcg being a high replacement dose for you, 12.5mcg would in theory put your free T3 levels somewhere in the range of 1.5 pmol/L. So in 3 weeks your body recovered a further 4.2 pmol/L (obviously these values fluctuate. Do you think the 12.5mcg bridged much of a gap or would you say this is only keeping you from hitting rock bottom for a few days?


----------



## raja16 (Jan 29, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Yeah it works exactly as it should and it decently priced, good stuff. Strange dosing indeed though, but it makes it nice and easy for folk like us I guess :lol:


 Sir what is your opinion on Alfa pharma (India ) t3 ? Is it gtg ?


----------



## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

raja16 said:


> Sir what is your opinion on Alfa pharma (India ) t3 ? Is it gtg ?


 Gtg

well dosed

Fixed

best


----------



## raja16 (Jan 29, 2015)

Sebbek said:


> Gtg
> 
> well dosed
> 
> ...


 Thanks. Pardon me pls what means WQ?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Bensif said:


> Really good thread and post. How much more beneficial do you feel the 12.5mcg protocol is over simply stopping cold turkey?
> 
> Based on 50mcg being a high replacement dose for you, 12.5mcg would in theory put your free T3 levels somewhere in the range of 1.5 pmol/L. So in 3 weeks your body recovered a further 4.2 pmol/L (obviously these values fluctuate. Do you think the 12.5mcg bridged much of a gap or would you say this is only keeping you from hitting rock bottom for a few days?


 Cheers buddy. It definitely helped me tbf. I always just used to go cold turkey and that first week you have to be very careful IME. 12.5mcg is no replacement dose that's for sure, but it'll keep your TDEE half-decent whilst you ramp the calories back up. If you just switch straight to what would normally be maintenance for you then you might experience a little fat gain, probably only a few lbs of actual fat but I'd just advise to start out being a bit below maintenance and gradually increase from there.


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## Rickardo (Aug 24, 2016)

Great insight into T3, very detailed. I ran T3 for 6 weeks at 12.5mcg a day. I noticed a little fat loss and increased energy etc. I have stopped now and have noticed a massive increase in hair loss, it's really worrying and I'm losing a lot more than usual. I stopped taking T3 about 11 weeks ago, will my hair stop falling out, or have I done permanent damage?

Thanks


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## Manfred (Oct 5, 2016)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> *Is T3 catabolic? Do I need to use AAS with it?*
> 
> In short, the answer to both these questions is yes - however, I feel that the catabolic element of this drug is highly overstated. T3 will make you look flat at higher doses on a deficit, and when people see this they assume they've lost muscle. However, when you raise your calories again (particularly your carbohydrates), you'll regain some fullness pretty quickly and realise that the muscle was never actually lost.
> 
> ...


 First of all thanks for these great infos 

But here is the thing  as u mentioned the amount of test what is enough to use with T3 im just wondering how about if i would use some test p with turinabol for example? What would be the right amount of these together?

BTW...i had many years in the gym of course, im 32, 188cm, around 110kg and i guess my bf unfortunately around 20-23% i guess  start night shift a bit more than 1year ago and just destroyed my body shape. I mean i never be under bf10% but i was happy with my shape. I just would get back a bit my shapes for this summer and try to keep up this . So i have a plan to use T3 with test p and maybe turinabol or stanozolol. What would be the right dose for these? Im going to asia end of may for a short holiday so thats why didnt mention test e or test c cos i have no time for these with pct. I could start this cycle around 1st of March i guess cos i will have 7th of Feb a wisdom tooth operation (needs to cut out from my gum) so hopefully will be ready to start in March.

So thinking about 8-10weeks test p with T3 and some oral (as i mentioned turinabol or stano). As i used before stano i know this how it works, but never use before test p or T3. There is 2option in my mind i guess, but pls everbody feel free to correct my options 

Option 1: 8-10weeks test p moderate dose with 40-60mg turinabol

Option 2: 8-10weeks test p moderate dose and 30mg stano in the 2nd half of the cycle

What du u think about it guys?


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## Manfred (Oct 5, 2016)

Any help guys?? Pls


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

So I'm doing a mini-experiment with 150mcg of T3 atm. Just a 4-weeker for now, starting a DNP cycle soon. Feel very warm all the time and heart rate is definitely faster, both totally expected from such a boost in my metabolic rate. Feeling hot enough that I actually feel prepared for my upcoming DNP cycle lol, sweating all the time. Other than that, no notable side effects. Feel pretty good actually. Eating at maintenance and losing about 3-4lbs a week. Strength has dropped but if I'm losing that much per week then that suggests a deficit of 1500-2000kcal a day, so that's to be expected. Don't appear particularly smaller otherwise. Feel less and less hungry as the weeks have gone by, oddly enough, probably just getting used to being in a deficit but either way, every few hours my body would be screaming out for calories it seems beforehand, but when I'm on higher doses of T3 I can handle not eating for several hours and don't feel hungrier at all.

Sent a blood sample off to Medichecks this afternoon to get my free T3 checked for reference. I'll post in this thread when I get the results.

@ManfredSorry for the veerrrrry late reply as I didn't see this and you probably won't now either lol, but anyways... the point I was making in that segment was, any standard cycle dose should counteract the effects of sensible doses of T3. s**t, as I said above I'm running 150mcg of T3 atm and 750mg of test seems to be staving off the muscle loss.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Bit of an update on the above post - I totally f**ked up on the bloods. I'm aware that when you take your T3 there's a big spike in free T3 for up to 5 hours, so I took it and then took my blood about 5 hours later. Big mistake, my free T3 levels came back at 32.6pmol/L!!! Top end of the normal range is 6.8. So yeah, should have waited a lot longer for my levels to normalise. Oh well, lives and learns.

Anyhow, feeling pretty good on 150mcg. In my research on people taking higher doses I noticed a few said that the higher doses made them feel tired all the time, not been the case for me at all. As I said above, had muscle weakness but being in a heavy deficit is gonna be responsible for a lot of that.


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## green81 (Oct 24, 2016)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Added my results to the OP. Just for anyone who can't be arsed to scroll through, a quick copy-paste for your convenience
> 
> Before ever using T3:
> 
> ...


 This states t3's uselessness/overhyped status IMO, 50mcg only put you in the high range of normal. it's like giving a 30 year old man in the high range of testosterone imo, might be "significant" in 12 months but natty is still a complete waste of time. I can't justify using anything higher than 50mcg because sweating like a pig or feeling like sh*t for little in return, I've never been able to say that t3 did alot of me so it seems very inefficient to f**k myself like that

I'll use it for HRT purposes in severe caloric restriction

Is t3's fat loss from it's effects on adrenaline? I've always thought it was but I don't actually know, if it does targets beta receptors you can take memantine from an online pharmacy, it will 100% reverse your tolerance to alcohol, cocaine, nicotine, benzos, opiates etc so be careful, run clen & t3 as long as you want. Memantine itself has 0 side effects for most people at 10mg a day, not many people know that it reverses tolerance but there's plenty of drug users & nootropic users who take it & I myself have taken it for around a year in 2015/16


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

green81 said:


> This states t3's uselessness/overhyped status IMO, 50mcg only put you in the high range of normal. it's like giving a 30 year old man in the high range of testosterone imo, might be "significant" in 12 months but natty is still a complete waste of time. I can't justify using anything higher than 50mcg because sweating like a pig or feeling like sh*t for little in return, I've never been able to say that t3 did alot of me so it seems very inefficient to f**k myself like that
> 
> I'll use it for HRT purposes in severe caloric restriction
> 
> Is t3's fat loss from it's effects on adrenaline? I've always thought it was but I don't actually know, if it does targets beta receptors you can take memantine from an online pharmacy, it will 100% reverse your tolerance to alcohol, cocaine, nicotine, benzos, opiates etc so be careful, run clen & t3 as long as you want. Memantine itself has 0 side effects for most people at 10mg a day, not many people know that it reverses tolerance but there's plenty of drug users & nootropic users who take it & I myself have taken it for around a year in 2015/16


 I wouldn't really say it's overhyped and it's definitely not useless, but yeah, I totally agree that people expect magic from 50mcg or even 25mcg, whereas I'm of the opinion that for a person with average thyroid function, 50mcg will provide just a mild boost, or just metabolic stabilisation during an aggressive cut which I always recommend it for and nothing more than that, really. The side effects are different for everyone though, for example I can run 150mcg and feel pretty damn good for a couple of months, but I notice the longer you run it the sides start to creep in. Some folks I've spoken to have even run at much as 200-300mcg and tolerated it very well. If you're hot, tired and hungry on a dose of less than 100mcg though, then yeah, not really worth it for the moderate boost, might as well run DNP as you'd get a lot more results from it!

I don't believe T3 has any appreciable effects on adrenaline and the beta receptors directly, however Dr Lowe's research suggests that higher doses can increase one's sensitivity to beta receptor activity which can cause transient symptoms such as palpitations. I'm actually pretty damn sensitive to stims, I can't run clen and I can only tolerate low doses of eph, or I get really bad anxiety. As I said though, I've ran up to 150mcg of T3, and on that I noticed absolutely no increases in anxiety, in fact if anything I felt less anxious, but I had palps that came and went. It works on several cells all around the body to stimulate an increase in your metabolic rate and speeds up various processes in the body, and of course a boost in metabolic rate comes with an increase in heart rate and sometimes blood pressure.


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## Miki_Cro_94 (Feb 26, 2018)

Since im hypothyrioid, waiting for a treatment, in my country i got an appointment 1year from now with my endo(its f**ked up i knowI) i started 2 use 50mcg t3/day on my own, although i didint even know im hypo, becasuse my tdee is around 3400kcals, but i cheched it since my mom, aunt, and grandmother are hypo. my friend who is a doc by the way says my tdee is high due to the fact im 5'8-5'9 and around 200lbs with less than 12% bf 
so this thread is my life saviour..thanx alot


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## TommyGun9 (Sep 11, 2017)

great read :thumbup1:


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## xC0achx (Nov 6, 2017)

I ran T3 for about a week or 2 after DNP

Has anybody had flu symptoms and/or loss of taste?


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## Getting-Lean (Jul 18, 2014)

xC0achx said:


> I ran T3 for about a week or 2 after DNP
> 
> Has anybody had flu symptoms and/or loss of taste?


 I lost my taste running dnp a few years back, everything tasted bland for about 2 weeks after stopping the dnp

Only ever happened the once though and I've ran dnp many times, different labs, caps, tabs, high dose, low dose, low carb, high carb etc!


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## Miki_Cro_94 (Feb 26, 2018)

xC0achx said:


> I ran T3 for about a week or 2 after DNP
> 
> Has anybody had flu symptoms and/or loss of taste?


 when i dialed in dose above normal levels, i started to get leaky nose..if that helps..and something like acid reflux but that could be tren so im not 100% on acid reflux


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## Studentforlife (Aug 20, 2018)

A long long read but so much useful information, can i somehow save this post to return? Thanks for your valuable input nwo


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Studentforlife said:


> A long long read but so much useful information, can i somehow save this post to return? Thanks for your valuable input nwo


 Once *text* is highlighted, it's also possible to *copy and paste* it using a keyboard shortcut instead of the mouse, which some people find easier. To *copy*, press and hold Ctrl (the control key) on the keyboard and then press the C on the keyboard. To *paste*, press and hold down Ctrl and then press V.


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## Studentforlife (Aug 20, 2018)

Getting-Lean said:


> I lost my taste running dnp a few years back, everything tasted bland for about 2 weeks after stopping the dnp
> 
> Only ever happened the once though and I've ran dnp many times, different labs, caps, tabs, high dose, low dose, low carb, high carb etc!


 Yes I have had a dry throat and dry stuffy nose been running t3 tren for about 5 weeks, seen some great results but I think it's slowing up, can anyone suggest wether I need to change anything up currently doing 50mg t3 with 1ml tren, thanks


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## Da_vide78 (Sep 18, 2018)

hi everyone.

This is a really interesting thread spanning many years, so its good to see how things have changed/stayed the same over that time. One thing that has changed (for me) is the availability and quality of T3.

My usual source (mexican Cynomel) has now stopped - apparently Grossman stopped making them, and i'm really struggling with finding a new option. Suggestions would be appreciated, however i stumbled across a T3 suspension (In DMSO, attached image) which has worked brilliantly apart from the fact the DMSO causes some baaaaad stink! Orally the efficacy of it is excellent but makes me smell, so much i've had to stop using it. DMSO is supposed to help dermal transference so i tried it as a topical solution to much less efficacy - in fact, i didn't feel anything.

So i started to investigate obtaining my own powder (HCL) and making up my own solution using De-ionised water. My supplier minimum order is 10g of product so is going to last, and then some!

I found a supplier and can get all the stuff i need to manage it, but before i do all of that can anyone suggest an alternative tab, or, have any experiences of making up their own solutions?


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## Rhinoceros (Mar 24, 2018)

nWo said:


> So I've noticed that T3 is a very asked-about drug on these forums. I've been messing around with thyroid hormones for quite some time now and done a LOT of research and reading about them, and as I've discussed my experiences in recent months on these forums I've been asked a lot of questions about the various aspects of thyroid hormones, T3 in particular. I like to think myself knowledgeable on the topic and have been labelled so by several other forum users here, so I figured I'd make a write-up to answer some of the questions I get asked, or have seen asked, the most.
> 
> I'll try my best to make this FAQ as clear and concise as possible for the layman to understand - an informative article meant for the general public is confusing and therefore useless if it's full of complex information that's hard to understand for someone who isn't well versed in the matter of thyroid hormones. It's frustrating when loads of technical jargon is thrown in seemingly just to make it look like the author is all-knowing, so my aim is to avoid bamboozling my readers.
> 
> ...


 Great read.

Do you have any more info on it mixed with clen since you wrote? Read different opinions that it doesn't counteract enough to balance out the catabolism. Would you run maybe a lower dose of say 25mcg if you weren't using anabolics?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Rhinoceros said:


> Great read.
> 
> Do you have any more info on it mixed with clen since you wrote? Read different opinions that it doesn't counteract enough to balance out the catabolism. Would you run maybe a lower dose of say 25mcg if you weren't using anabolics?


 If you were to create a catabolic environment by running a high dose of T3, no anabolics, heavy deficit, I can't imagine clen would help. Is there any reason you'd not at least run a PH or SARM cycle though? Neither would be any more harmful than taking clen in most cases IMO.

You could take 25mcg on a cut to help fight metabolic slowing, wouldn't be a majorly effective dose but it'll help a bit.


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## Ferenor (Jun 27, 2018)

Really useful thread imo, saved as pdf


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## Rhinoceros (Mar 24, 2018)

nWo said:


> If you were to create a catabolic environment by running a high dose of T3, no anabolics, heavy deficit, I can't imagine clen would help. Is there any reason you'd not at least run a PH or SARM cycle though? Neither would be any more harmful than taking clen in most cases IMO.
> 
> You could take 25mcg on a cut to help fight metabolic slowing, wouldn't be a majorly effective dose but it'll help a bit.


 Don't have much knowledge on them that's the only reason really. Read a lot more about gear. Any you would recommend alongside?

Leading up to my first cycle end of this cut so won't be an issue next year I can imagine haha


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## Playtowin (Dec 6, 2018)

How effective is adding 50mcg to a Clen Cycle help burn fat?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Rhinoceros said:


> Don't have much knowledge on them that's the only reason really. Read a lot more about gear. Any you would recommend alongside?
> 
> Leading up to my first cycle end of this cut so won't be an issue next year I can imagine haha


 Actual steroids are always gonna be better than SARMs and PHs. Better priced and generally more effective in most cases. If you're looking at your first cycle then @swole troll posted up some solid info for beginners.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/267472-swole-trolls-its-not-that-difficult-series/?do=embed


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Playtowin said:


> How effective is adding 50mcg to a Clen Cycle help burn fat?


 50mcg will give a decent boost to someone with average thyroid function and will help keep your metabolic rate nice and stable, the latter is the major selling point really. T3 and clen are generally a nice combo.


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## Rhinoceros (Mar 24, 2018)

nWo said:


> Actual steroids are always gonna be better than SARMs and PHs. Better priced and generally more effective in most cases. If you're looking at your first cycle then @swole troll posted up some solid info for beginners.
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/267472-swole-trolls-its-not-that-difficult-series/?do=embed


 Yeah I've been through all his stickies that's what I'm planning.

I meant any suggestions on a sarm alongside?

T3, clen and something else maybe?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Rhinoceros said:


> Yeah I've been through all his stickies that's what I'm planning.
> 
> I meant any suggestions on a sarm alongside?
> 
> T3, clen and something else maybe?


 They're not stickies 

And fwiw even on a decent wack of gear I felt tired, weak and flat on 50mcg t3, 75mcg made me feel like I had aids

We all react different but I wouldn't be considering t3 without at least 500mg test personally

And if you've never ran gear before I wouldn't waste your first cycle on cutting.

My advice would be

* Keep cutting naturally to a reaonsable leanness

* Lean bulk on gear (once glycogen settles aim to gain 1lb per week)

* Come off and maintain

* Once bloods normalize

Cut on gear, t3 and clen (if youre hellbent on trying these 2 compounds) and get as lean as you want to as the t3 and clen will assist and the gear will preserve your LBM


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Rhinoceros said:


> Yeah I've been through all his stickies that's what I'm planning.
> 
> I meant any suggestions on a sarm alongside?
> 
> T3, clen and something else maybe?


 I don't normally recommend SARMs without a test base as they'll shut down your own test production with no replacement, but it's still doable with good results. Ostarine is the best SARM IMO.


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## Rhinoceros (Mar 24, 2018)

swole troll said:


> They're not stickies
> 
> And fwiw even on a decent wack of gear I felt tired, weak and flat on 50mcg t3, 75mcg made me feel like I had aids
> 
> ...


 That's the plan bud.

Just reading on here every day gets me buzzed to try something extra haha. Already 3 months into a cut


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Noticed a few folks saying they're saving this guide in text format - while this is of course fine, please note that I'm still regularly updating this thread with new findings and small (but relevant) edits as I continue my research, so perhaps once in a while re-copy it so you're up to date :thumbup1:


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## sponge2015 (Aug 18, 2013)

nWo said:


> Noticed a few folks saying they're saving this guide in text format - while this is of course fine, please note that I'm still regularly updating this thread with new findings and small (but relevant) edits as I continue my research, so perhaps once in a while re-copy it so you're up to date :thumbup1:


 Hi mate I know you're more clued up on the supplementation of T3 than natural levels etc but thought It'd be worth a shot asking you while I do my own research.

My T3 always comes back upper end of range or above it on every blood check I do, never taken T3 in my life so its purely my body producing a lot of T3.

My question is, do these levels fall into the over active thyroid bracket?

Same way my liver values for ALT might be 70 but was told it would be in the hundreds or thousands if I had actual liver damage

Hope that makes sense as starter rambling a bit :lol:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

sponge2015 said:


> Hi mate I know you're more clued up on the supplementation of T3 than natural levels etc but thought It'd be worth a shot asking you while I do my own research.
> 
> My T3 always comes back upper end of range or above it on every blood check I do, never taken T3 in my life so its purely my body producing a lot of T3.
> 
> ...


 I've done more than my share of research on how the thyroid gland works as well mate so feel free to ask related questions, sort of have to have an understanding of it to know the best ways to go about using thyroid drugs :thumbup1:

You're fine there mate, if you're just a bit over the normal range with most things the docs would tell you just ignore it, the upper limits of the ranges in most cases are just used so it's easy to tell when something is seriously out of whack. TSH is perfectly normal so your body just likes your T3 levels to be around 7, basically.


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## SlinMeister (Feb 21, 2017)

nWo said:


> Noticed a few folks saying they're saving this guide in text format - while this is of course fine, please note that I'm still regularly updating this thread with new findings and small (but relevant) edits as I continue my research, so perhaps once in a while re-copy it so you're up to date :thumbup1:


 I am reading this thread at least 10 times a month!!!


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

Interesting read. Should be a sticky IMO.


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## nubretlion (Jun 1, 2020)

i sent u a PM regarding this topic. 

Im diagnosed with hypothyroidsm so if anyone else with thyroid problems are reading this i really would like to talk to u to know if u have gotten your life quality back since mine has been down the gutter for some time now, especially when it comes to bodybuilding..

Im only on 75mcg T4 as prescribed by my Dr which only seems to care about TSH-levels.


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## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

nubretlion said:


> i sent u a PM regarding this topic.
> 
> Im diagnosed with hypothyroidsm so if anyone else with thyroid problems are reading this i really would like to talk to u to know if u have gotten your life quality back since mine has been down the gutter for some time now, especially when it comes to bodybuilding..
> 
> Im only on 75mcg T4 as prescribed by my Dr which only seems to care about TSH-levels.


 Im on 250mcg t4 but still feel lethargic and weak most of the time. I asked my Dr about trying t3 and he said he'd need to research it as apparently he didn't know what it was ffs


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## SlinMeister (Feb 21, 2017)

@nWo since i am using 6iu HGH ed for "bulking", do you think it will be fine to use 37,5mcg T3 + 100mcg T4? This will give same readings as 50mcg T3?

What do you think?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

safc49 said:


> Im on 250mcg t4 but still feel lethargic and weak most of the time. I asked my Dr about trying t3 and he said he'd need to research it as apparently he didn't know what it was ffs


 Are you supplementing with or tried supplementing with iodine (sea kelp)?

You also need to consider your calcium intake as well as vitamin d (and sodium).

Not all thyroid illnesses are created equal and can't be treated as such (t4 use)


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## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

Bensif said:


> Are you supplementing with or tried supplementing with iodine (sea kelp)?
> 
> You also need to consider your calcium intake as well as vitamin d (and sodium).
> 
> Not all thyroid illnesses are created equal and can't be treated as such (t4 use)


 Cheers mate, I'll look into it. Not supplementing with anything

Could you point me in the right direction for reading?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

safc49 said:


> Cheers mate, I'll look into it. Not supplementing with anything
> 
> Could you point me in the right direction for reading?


 Mmmm honestly not without spending time searching myself as I haven't looked at this in detail for some time (I am hyperthyroid). The first thing that springs to mind is some of Stan Efferdings seminars where he touches on it.

Iodine plays an important role in thyroid function, a simple search will likely yield some results that you can read.


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## Kris_M (Nov 29, 2020)

Hey guys!! Recently joined the forum. Just a quick one on T3 i love it in a cutting cycle for around 4 weeks at 50mcg per day. A friend of mines said T3 can permanently damage the thyroid which i didnt think was true as it always bounced back

any advice would be appreciated


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## badg96 (Apr 8, 2021)

I am currently doing a cycle of t3, clen, test prop and anavar. When I start using t3 12.5mg can I start the pct of steroids right away? Or is it better to wait before starting pct?


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## RakaJaka (May 1, 2021)

nWo said:


> So I've noticed that T3 is a very asked-about drug on these forums. I've been messing around with thyroid hormones for quite some time now and done a LOT of research and reading about them, and as I've discussed my experiences in recent months on these forums I've been asked a lot of questions about the various aspects of thyroid hormones, T3 in particular. I like to think myself knowledgeable on the topic and have been labelled so by several other forum users here, so I figured I'd make a write-up to answer some of the questions I get asked, or have seen asked, the most.
> 
> I'll try my best to make this FAQ as clear and concise as possible for the layman to understand - an informative article meant for the general public is confusing and therefore useless if it's full of complex information that's hard to understand for someone who isn't well versed in the matter of thyroid hormones. It's frustrating when loads of technical jargon is thrown in seemingly just to make it look like the author is all-knowing, so my aim is to avoid bamboozling my readers.
> 
> ...


My oestrogen is 565. I have Gyno from tren, I have been told to use T3 @ 25mcg/Ed and B6 @400-600mg, ..to get my prolactin under control and return my women's hormone panel back to reasonable amounts and aromasin @25mg EOD for 1st week, then 12.5mg EOD until i retest oestrogen levels..., im just wanting thoughts on this? Please advise? also should i use raloxofene, and/or nolva to combat this?

I am currently cruising at 200-240mg test a week....my finished course was 500mg test E/400mg tren E per week


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

RakaJaka said:


> My oestrogen is 565. I have Gyno from tren, I have been told to use T3 @ 25mcg/Ed and B6 @400-600mg, ..to get my prolactin under control and return my women's hormone panel back to reasonable amounts and aromasin @25mg EOD for 1st week, then 12.5mg EOD until i retest oestrogen levels..., im just wanting thoughts on this? Please advise? also should i use raloxofene, and/or nolva to combat this?
> 
> I am currently cruising at 200-240mg test a week....my finished course was 500mg test E/400mg tren E per week


Asking about a gyno protocol on a T3 thread probably isn't within your best interest. Maybe make a new thread about it under the steroid section if you haven't already.


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