# Lenny Mclean or Roy Shaw ????



## DS1 (Apr 19, 2010)

Who would you put your hard earned cash on to win a fight !!! Just wondered, I have just finished reading both books, Both are right hard bastards .


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## XL (Aug 12, 2009)

Roy Shaw all the way. I've met him a few times, nice bloke.


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## Tommo1436114510 (Feb 13, 2006)

Good shout!

I would put a fiver on Roy "pretty boy" Shaw.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Having only ever seen Roy Shaw fight i'd say him.

I have seen a bit of footage of Lenny fighting but it wasn't very good quality. They did have a few fights with each other with both of them claiming to have won....


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## Tommo1436114510 (Feb 13, 2006)

Daz said:


> couldnt give a fooook they are both "has beens"


I wouldn't wanna take a whack off either of them!


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

love roy shaw but lenny would and did do him


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## DS1 (Apr 19, 2010)

Take a look on you tube when Mclean battard the gypo fight bradshaw. Dirty git head butted him when touching gloves


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

bruce lee and mariusz would fvck them all up


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## YetiMan1436114545 (Dec 7, 2007)

1russ100 said:


> bruce lee and mariusz would fvck them all up


I was thinking Roy Nelson! O wait...


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## Spangle1187 (Jul 27, 2006)

Lenny obviously not now because he is dead but in his prime he was an animal. He used to collect supplements on a Sunday morning at a gym I trained at and he had to come through the door sideways. Hands like sledgehammers


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

YetiMan said:


> I was thinking Roy Nelson! O wait...


whilst eating a burger!

ive read both books and although they are entertaining i would say 50% is bullsh1t tbh


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## dan 100 (Nov 23, 2009)

3 fights,lenny 2 roy 1.

ive met roy a few times and even though he is an old man hes still looks mental,a head like a block of stone.

i will say that roy seemed to be a bit more of an ars3hole from what i can gather


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

lenny as he done one on roy before

like sayign who would win between tyson and lennox lewis?

oh ya, tyson all the way baby


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## the_muss (May 16, 2008)

They both beat each other although they both had excuses why they lost. I think Lenny claimed he fought Roy three times and won two but I'm not too sure if he did. I would guess that they were probably evenly matched. They obviously both were rock hard fighters but i think Roy was a bit more tapped and perhaps less of a boxer so that what's made it a good fight. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o> </o>

There are some really poor copes of one of the fights floating about but too bad to work much out. I remembering forking out a tenner years ago to get the dvd from ebay just to find a 20- second grainy clip and about 3 hours of gypsy boxing - it's quite funny.<o></o>


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

the clip i saw looked awful...im not batting on about technique per sey but just compared to the books what i saw on tape looked a bit dissapointing. books i agree were obviously given a little boost to certain facts..

sure some v v tough people about, Lenny used to do doors in camden years ago remember seeing him when we would go out, was a big dude.

most of the fights seemed to be under 'rules' per sey, so id have Iron Mike for my tenner bet

lots of these things generally are quite poor in terms of ability... sure a few of them could be half decent if trained properly....

for proper 'straightners' some of the early Russian Vale Tudo and Brazilian events are where its at


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## KRS (Nov 27, 2008)




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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

bruce does them all.


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

noel said:


> bruce does them all.


dont be silly, mariusz would kill them


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

pudz verses lenny.....winner fights brucie................yea..........


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## ManOnAMission (May 1, 2009)




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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I enjoyed both books too, read them a couple of years ago nowbut you just know blokes like that will big up their hardness abit. Tough, hard blokes - undoubtedly but it doesn't do you any harmy to exaggerate your reputation a bit to make people think twice.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

KRS said:


>


How he got up after getting that pummeling in the corner is anyones guess.


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

Uriel said:


> I enjoyed both books too, read them a couple of years ago nowbut you just know blokes like that will big up their hardness abit. Tough, hard blokes - undoubtedly but it doesn't do you any harmy to exaggerate your reputation a bit to make people think twice.


have you ever read kate krays hard bastards?


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## stolensocks01 (Nov 11, 2009)

1russ100 said:


> have you ever read kate krays hard bastards?


i have got it as a b'day pressie not as much detail as i would have liked


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

stolensocks01 said:


> i have got it as a b'day pressie not as much detail as i would have liked


id like to know who id the research for it:confused1:


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

Love all these Southern "Hard Bastards". There's a reason they stayed in London you know, it's because the real "hard Bastards" told them to stay there, and that includes the Krays. As Ariel points out - in his magic pantaloons- a lot of exagerating. Not saying they aren't hard but the proper hard men feel no need to advertise themselves to the media.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

One of my mates is a model. She was in that new film Killer Bitch. She knocks around with Dave Courtney and other assorted wrong'uns, i'd assume it's cobbled together from their exagerrated war stories.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

BillC said:


> Love all these Southern "Hard Bastards". There's a reason they stayed in London you know, it's because the real "hard Bastards" told them to stay there, and that includes the Krays. As Ariel points out - in his magic pantaloons- a lot of exagerating. Not saying they aren't hard but the proper hard men feel no need to advertise themselves to the media.


Why would us southerners want to come up north? You lot have got nothing worth stealing.


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

BillC said:


> Love all these Southern "Hard Bastards". There's a reason they stayed in London you know, it's because the real "hard Bastards" told them to stay there, and that includes the Krays. As Ariel points out - in his magic pantaloons- a lot of exagerating. Not saying they aren't hard but the *proper hard men feel no need to advertise themselves to the media.*


exfvckingactly:thumb:


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## Ripp3d (Aug 31, 2006)

BillC said:


> Love all these Southern "Hard Bastards". There's a reason they stayed in London you know, it's because the real "hard Bastards" told them to stay there, and that includes the Krays. As Ariel points out - in his magic pantaloons- a lot of exagerating. *Not saying they aren't hard but the proper hard men feel no need to advertise themselves to the media*.


As a general consensus then I'd agree with this comment, but these two were as hard as they come in their hayday. The fact they realised they could make money later on via the media and exploit there notoriety doesnt make them any less hard men imo.

Nowadays...everybody thinks they a hardman!! lol :laugh:


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Think the krays were just bullies hyped up by themselves and the press, it dont matter whether your a northern monkey or a shandy drinking southerner if your hard your hard and you dont give a ****e who thinks who is the hardest


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Smitch said:


> Why would us southerners want to come up north? You lot have got nothing worth stealing.


Thats right, you all eat jellied eels and sing "knee's up mutha brarn" :whistling: ...oh, and sausage and mash, yeah, could see how they'd like to stay around that immigrant infested 5hithole really..... :thumb: :beer:

Id say 90% of both those books are exaggerated to fook, and as for Kate Kray, nowt like irking a livving off your dead husband, she was/is a fukin no-body, who likes acting like she's more important than she is, she wasn't even around when Reggie and Ronnie were at the height of their nastiness....didn't she meet him in the nick when he was hafl drugged up...pmsl....yeah, flash him yer t1ts and 3 days later your married...


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

I'll be honest though - if I spilled Lenny or Roy's pint - I'd get the cnut another sharp!


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## sawyer (Jan 18, 2009)

roy shaw all day long


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

Five-O said:


> Thats right, you all eat jellied eels and sing "knee's up mutha brarn" :whistling: ...oh, and sausage and mash, yeah, could see how they'd like to stay around that immigrant infested 5hithole really..... :thumb: :beer:
> 
> Id say 90% of both those books are exaggerated to fook, and as for Kate Kray, nowt like irking a livving off your dead husband, she was/is a fukin no-body, who likes acting like she's more important than she is, she wasn't even around when Reggie and Ronnie were at the height of their nastiness....didn't she meet him in the nick when he was hafl drugged up...pmsl....yeah, flash him yer t1ts and 3 days later your married...


i must admit she gets on my tits. i read 1 chapter of her book and skimmed the rest.


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## WRT (May 21, 2009)

Roy Shaw seeing as Lenny Mclean is dead.


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## WRT (May 21, 2009)

About Lenny Mclean

"In 1992, McLean was working as the head doorman at the The Hippodrome in London's Leicester Square, one of the largest nightclubs in the capital, when he ejected a man named Gary Humphries who was reportedly on drugs, streaking through the nightclub and harassing young women. McLean admitted to "giving him a backhander". Humphries died later that night and was found to have a broken jawbone and severe neck injuries."

Fvcking hell:lol:


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

WRT said:


> About Lenny Mclean
> 
> "In 1992, McLean was working as the head doorman at the The Hippodrome in London's Leicester Square, one of the largest nightclubs in the capital, when he ejected a man named Gary Humphries who was reportedly on drugs, streaking through the nightclub and harassing young women. McLean admitted to "giving him a backhander". Humphries died later that night and was found to have a broken jawbone and severe neck injuries."
> 
> Fvcking hell:lol:


The lad wasn't on drugs, he was a frigging lady killer, always was and some lads took offence to him chatting all the women up. He got thrown out stipped and knocked the sh!t out of because he was as they say, too busy talking when he should have been listening. Lads who knew him said he never did give a sh1t who he was talking to, he took this p!ss out of the wrong doorman..

How do I know this, started working on the same job his death vacated 6 months later.


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

Roy Shaw & lenny = Pair of wanabes, absolute **** poor boxers with zero technique, both had no heart, stamina NOTHING! Most over rated pair of thugs ever. They was never hard they was both a pair of tossers that got a name from getting there heads caved in and beating up little boys and fat milkmen. ''Oh they'd of beat you Dan'' Hahaha don't make me ****. But yh pair of chumps if we are gonna big up real hard men, that was hard in and out the ring can we talk a little Sonny Liston? Or somebody that was actually hard unlike these girls that are only known because of books and for getting sparked out lolol.


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## mr.buffnstuff (Oct 22, 2009)

pretty conclusive of shaw vs mclean!


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## robzombie (Dec 28, 2009)

Lenny beat roy shaw its on youtube.


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## RF67 (May 13, 2010)

Roy Shaw, had the edge - he was a total loony..ala- max secure hospitals...Lenny was just a thug


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

There's legendary stories about some of Belfasts hardmen called Stormy Weatherall, Silver Mckee and Buck Alec. Buck Alec was tasty at fighting and walked a lion, he was also involved with Al Capone! It must've been mad over here back then if someone can walk a lion about the streets of Belfast!!


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

dan-cov-boxer said:


> Roy Shaw & lenny = Pair of wanabes, absolute **** poor boxers with zero technique, both had no heart, stamina NOTHING! Most over rated pair of thugs ever. They was never hard they was both a pair of tossers that got a name from getting there heads caved in and beating up little boys and fat milkmen. ''Oh they'd of beat you Dan'' Hahaha don't make me ****. But yh pair of chumps if we are gonna big up real hard men, that was hard in and out the ring can we talk a little Sonny Liston? Or somebody that was actually hard unlike these girls that are only known because of books and for getting sparked out lolol.


What a load of bollocks. Do you actually believe somebody just thought oh we'll write a book about this 'chump' who 'beats up milkmen. The reason the books were written is because they had big reputations. Were the books exaggerated? - definately, did they get beat? -definately. That doesn't take away from the fact they were both hard bastards.


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## Earl-Hickey (Apr 20, 2010)

MR RIGSBY said:


> What a load of bollocks. Do you actually believe somebody just thought oh we'll write a book about this 'chump' who 'beats up milkmen. The reason the books were written is because they had big reputations. Were the books exaggerated? - definately, did they get beat? -definately. That doesn't take away from the fact they were both hard bastards.


I see what you are saying, but Mclean in particular is hillariously over-rated in some circles, I overheard some pub dwellers having a serious conversation saying they thought Mclean could beat Tyson, when in reality the best version of Mclean wouldn't last 30 seconds against a 20 year old tyson


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

i recall in Lenny's book I think it was - he had a half hearted go at training for a fight, went in an supposed to have bench about 5 plates a side right off and I thought "Fuking no chance"

He was a big man and looke naturally strong but hmm


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## Never Injured (Jan 4, 2010)

Just watched one of their fights on youtube and Lenny totally destroyed him. Hard to see how he ever lost to him.


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## stolensocks01 (Nov 11, 2009)

1russ100 said:


> id like to know who id the research for it:confused1:


i know mate none wanted to talk either


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Both hard guys no doubt, found the books enertaining but took much of what was wrote with a pinch of salt.

Preffer Bartley Gormans book though.


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## DaveN (Jul 25, 2008)

McLean used to be on the door of the camden Palais when we used to try and get in

'Not tonight lads'

'Why not'

**insert growl**

Cos Lenny says so

Actually, I say was on the door, you couldn't actually see the door past him, he was enourmous.


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## DS1 (Apr 19, 2010)

DaveN said:


> McLean used to be on the door of the camden Palais when we used to try and get in
> 
> 'Not tonight lads'
> 
> ...


HA HA HA quality


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

was amusing as then the little black fella that sold all the pills in there would walk in say hello, not be searched, que jump and go on his merry way flogging apples and doves to anyway who wanted them.... ah the memories


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## Martin Jones (Apr 14, 2009)

SHAROOTS said:


> There's legendary stories about some of Belfasts hardmen called Stormy Weatherall, Silver Mckee and Buck Alec. Buck Alec was tasty at fighting and walked a lion, he was also involved with Al Capone! It must've been mad over here back then if someone can walk a lion about the streets of Belfast!!


Seen him when I was competing in the UK's in Belfast. It's a tiger not a lion and he has a huge pen in his back garden that keeps the tiger in. I've seem photo's and know a few that went around to his house. But I don't know him myself.


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

Mate it was a definately a Lion not a Tiger. He lived near a place called Tigers Bay but he definately walked a Lion and he was hard as fcuk!!


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## RF67 (May 13, 2010)

Charles Bronson would whip them both.

I know a x screw, who used to work at Wakefield...who knew Bronson.

He told me: ' he ( Bronson ) used to squat with three screws on his back! and when he used to use weights - he shifted 220kg's on the bench


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## SHAROOTS (Nov 22, 2007)

Bronson is a legend fs I mean who else would take a screw prisoner and torture him by tickling his feet.. Hilarious!


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## RF67 (May 13, 2010)

His account ( via -numerous book's) on the prison system ( back in the day ) is shocking.


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

Martin Jones said:


> Seen him when I was competing in the UK's in Belfast. It's a tiger not a lion and he has a huge pen in his back garden that keeps the tiger in. I've seem photo's and know a few that went around to his house. But I don't know him myself.


i dont see a difference it being a lion or tiger u would need to be nutts to walk either 2 of them in my oppinion, both are extremely dangerous lol


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

YetiMan said:


> I was thinking Roy Nelson! O wait...


I was thinking Roy Chubby Brown TBH...

Anyway said it before Bartley Gorman king if the gypsies...... neither of them claimed to even know who he was for some reason..


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

well for something i realy like which is fighting,well not so much that i go fighting i mean i watch anything thats full contact and have since i was a little boy but one thing i do know is that roy shaw spoke about lenny mclean it was on brute force the video by roy pretty boy shaw, these two bareknuckle and unlicensed boxing etc deserve the upmost respect they fought and solved there problems out one on one not 10 on 1 wi bottles etc u get these days with gangs and all these idiots that think there jack the lad with knives etc, back then u got what u got unless u ran into the krays and were disrespectful ur proberly looking to be still be missing, but anyway they were the days when these guys made a point of clearing there differences up and both loved to fight and were extremely good or we wouldnt be hre making a topic out of any them if they wernt worth the time, but most ppl which know of there famous fights which were realy 3 in all where roy shaw said from his own mouth that lenny was jumping about laughing at him hittin him sying they dont hurt u cant hurt me to where roy shaw then went from body blows to opening right up on lenny to which roy said in his video about lenny that lenny asked roy to stop then tell them to stop it roy and roy won through lenny giving up, but if lenny gave up so easy why ask for a rematch well lennys not hear to defend himself there but i wonder myself, as the next 2 fights still to this day roy shaw i just dont make out realy i understand him but what hes actually saying to why he lost the 2nd rematch i don because on his way to the fight with his friend alfie hutchison but on the way he stopped and tried to get capsules called gensing which would make him calm i suppose but the shop had no capsules only bottles so he got a bottle drunk half it and in roys words made him in a sedated feling to which i dont know in a sedated way even got to fight unlicensed or not if they can stop lennys im sure they would stop roys there was still some rules in unlicensed but as he said he went in a sedted feeling and lenny knocked him out thats how he lost his very first fight ever and to lenny mclean ,then came the 3rd rematch to this im still wondering wtf is roy on well he says he took 4 vitamin E capsules in the morning the night of the fight at 1000mg each and when he went to the fight that night were talking hourrrssss later he was walking down the stairs to the ring feeling if he had just woken up so was he sedated, or boosted coz i saw that fight and for someone whos saying the felt they had just opened there eyes and woken up out of bed he came straight across and stuck the head in lenny mclean to which most of use will know the rest as lenny used him as a human football and knocked him out again absolute sparkled him for that headbutt shaw done the minute the bell went,ud think if u didnt feel right from the 2nd fight u would stick to what u done in the first fight he said he won to which no proof can be found of his win we can only take his word and lennys not here to say if he did or not, proberly did win as he said i know its stupid even though lens dead i wanted a 4th rematch to which lenny said no to but the way roy made it out was as if he was robbed coz lenny wouldnt let him get revenge,maybe lenny knew he wasnt right took the 2nd fight knocked him out for getting beat as shaw said in the first but 3rd time round lenny walked out calm till he was headbutted by shaw, why he done that only shaw will know which he can only answer as stupidly well in my oppionion it was stupid as he got knocked out for that stupid mistake,each to there own thought but this came from roy shaws mouth in brute force the video on lenny mclean, i highly doubt lenny wouldnt have fought again unless he was getting better money elsewere doing enforcing jobs,as i know he was drafted in by london gangsters once against the i.r.a am sure its even in his book not tomake trouble but just to be there presence wise so the deal went sweet which as far as i know it did,lennys presence would scare alot of ppl he was a big man ,very powerful,but he was also a gentle giant didnt hit anyone unless they deserved it, also a family man, but dont take kindness for weakness i would say about lenny, if you put roy pretty boy shaw to the right and lenny mclean to the leftand ask who was known more, more popular and a think majority would go lennys way not because he was a londonder or british he fought guys outside britain aswell ,tookthe mafia to fly lenny over to fight there top man and if i recall the fight lasted minutes as lenny smashed there top mafia man then had to flee the city case there was payback, but i thought prob just as much as the ppl on this topic maybe not the bouner who had the privalage of working with lenny mclean will know this maybe there 3 fights didnt happen throug boxing as if it was time, was actually a pub lenny drunk in that was owned by a friend of roy shaws and when he said he was closing up drink up ppl plz ,lenny would reply not tonight were having a late one which the bar man let him do and ths went for a good few nights after night till this barman friend of roy shaw told roy that a geezer was taken the **** and could he have a word with him so roy shaw agreed and said this saturday when he comes in ill say to him to his friend but saturday came and no show of lenny as he was working in a club/pub in hempney i dunno where it is hempney or even if ive spelled it correct sorry if i have, but that where lenny was working the night roy shaw was to tell him off,so roy knew where he worked he said and went down dunno if he said he got in trouble down there fighing wise or there was trouble down there thats why they ad lenny on the door but he went down told lenny to keep out the pub and lenny said ok (which i doubt) yeah ok roy no problem buddy but want to fight me winner takes all okey dokey lenny deal, well thats whats allegidly happend lenny said ok when told to keep out the pub of his friends then said to roy unless you want to fight me winner takes all kind of thing as shaw said and thats how there feud began, mclean won 2 shaw won 1 but roy shaw keps this i was sedated thats why he knocked me out with taken sorry drinking ultra gemsing or someting as they had no capsules that he usually took ,fight 3 ,vitamin E4 1000mg is to blame for that loss, well there athletes to this day still being caught for taking drung endurance uppers to last longer etc as u know but wtf go into a fight sedated as he says in his own words ill find the video,he still has this 2 loss thing stuck on his shoulders to this day and even said lenny mclean was no guvnor,either way both get my respect, espec lenny,shaw was mentiond in a post as being in mental institutions etc was nutts, maybe he was on medication he wont admit as he dont want to go back in to his illness past or we just will never know apart from shaw saying lenny beat him twice to his once,one of lennys friends over the yrs dave courtney talks on it but funny enough hes saying about the two fights lenny one as oh maybe lenny got the (upper hand in thoses FIGHTS) BUT ON THE COBBLES, 5 STONE HEAVIER ROY SHAW WOULDA BEAT HIM,so dave was shaw sedated and got took advantage of or u saying lenny won fair and square and shaw is still out is nutt from vitamin E, brute force by roy shaw about lenny mclean was the video i watchedunless he was out his nutt doing it and talking facts butmissing stuff out i believe lenny had no problem beaten him,even after his loss if that even happend as its never been found why a dont know,one thing both there names will live on ppl can call them jokers,mugs etc, but1 is dead and the other is still crazy if u gave him cheek he would get flash backs and think ur the guvnor and bury ye coz when he talks in that documentary hes either on medication or took some serious damage fighting over his years with what they had the cheek to call boxing gloves,wow well that was a thing of the past talking about lenny and roy ,big topic of who wold win well hopefully ive put the end to it about who won the fights as lenny won 2 shaw won 1 but shaw says he was sedated but hey roy if u read this bud lenny didnt sedate ye you did, NO EXCUSES, still both legends in there days,hopefully someone will get there act together and get lenny mcleans true life story out because as a said if bronson can get one for doing time, lenny shouldav had one yrs back. R.I.P LENNY MCLEAN


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

sine-metu said:


> well for something i realy like which is fighting,well not so much that i go fighting i mean i watch anything thats full contact and have since i was a little boy but one thing i do know is that roy shaw spoke about lenny mclean it was on brute force the video by roy pretty boy shaw, these two bareknuckle and unlicensed boxing etc deserve the upmost respect they fought and solved there problems out one on one not 10 on 1 wi bottles etc u get these days with gangs and all these idiots that think there jack the lad with knives etc, back then u got what u got unless u ran into the krays and were disrespectful ur proberly looking to be still be missing, but anyway they were the days when these guys made a point of clearing there differences up and both loved to fight and were extremely good or we wouldnt be hre making a topic out of any them if they wernt worth the time, but most ppl which know of there famous fights which were realy 3 in all where roy shaw said from his own mouth that lenny was jumping about laughing at him hittin him sying they dont hurt u cant hurt me to where roy shaw then went from body blows to opening right up on lenny to which roy said in his video about lenny that lenny asked roy to stop then tell them to stop it roy and roy won through lenny giving up, but if lenny gave up so easy why ask for a rematch well lennys not hear to defend himself there but i wonder myself, as the next 2 fights still to this day roy shaw i just dont make out realy i understand him but what hes actually saying to why he lost the 2nd rematch i don because on his way to the fight with his friend alfie hutchison but on the way he stopped and tried to get capsules called gensing which would make him calm i suppose but the shop had no capsules only bottles so he got a bottle drunk half it and in roys words made him in a sedated feling to which i dont know in a sedated way even got to fight unlicensed or not if they can stop lennys im sure they would stop roys there was still some rules in unlicensed but as he said he went in a sedted feeling and lenny knocked him out thats how he lost his very first fight ever and to lenny mclean ,then came the 3rd rematch to this im still wondering wtf is roy on well he says he took 4 vitamin E capsules in the morning the night of the fight at 1000mg each and when he went to the fight that night were talking hourrrssss later he was walking down the stairs to the ring feeling if he had just woken up so was he sedated, or boosted coz i saw that fight and for someone whos saying the felt they had just opened there eyes and woken up out of bed he came straight across and stuck the head in lenny mclean to which most of use will know the rest as lenny used him as a human football and knocked him out again absolute sparkled him for that headbutt shaw done the minute the bell went,ud think if u didnt feel right from the 2nd fight u would stick to what u done in the first fight he said he won to which no proof can be found of his win we can only take his word and lennys not here to say if he did or not, proberly did win as he said i know its stupid even though lens dead i wanted a 4th rematch to which lenny said no to but the way roy made it out was as if he was robbed coz lenny wouldnt let him get revenge,maybe lenny knew he wasnt right took the 2nd fight knocked him out for getting beat as shaw said in the first but 3rd time round lenny walked out calm till he was headbutted by shaw, why he done that only shaw will know which he can only answer as stupidly well in my oppionion it was stupid as he got knocked out for that stupid mistake,each to there own thought but this came from roy shaws mouth in brute force the video on lenny mclean, i highly doubt lenny wouldnt have fought again unless he was getting better money elsewere doing enforcing jobs,as i know he was drafted in by london gangsters once against the i.r.a am sure its even in his book not tomake trouble but just to be there presence wise so the deal went sweet which as far as i know it did,lennys presence would scare alot of ppl he was a big man ,very powerful,but he was also a gentle giant didnt hit anyone unless they deserved it, also a family man, but dont take kindness for weakness i would say about lenny, if you put roy pretty boy shaw to the right and lenny mclean to the leftand ask who was known more, more popular and a think majority would go lennys way not because he was a londonder or british he fought guys outside britain aswell ,tookthe mafia to fly lenny over to fight there top man and if i recall the fight lasted minutes as lenny smashed there top mafia man then had to flee the city case there was payback, but i thought prob just as much as the ppl on this topic maybe not the bouner who had the privalage of working with lenny mclean will know this maybe there 3 fights didnt happen throug boxing as if it was time, was actually a pub lenny drunk in that was owned by a friend of roy shaws and when he said he was closing up drink up ppl plz ,lenny would reply not tonight were having a late one which the bar man let him do and ths went for a good few nights after night till this barman friend of roy shaw told roy that a geezer was taken the **** and could he have a word with him so roy shaw agreed and said this saturday when he comes in ill say to him to his friend but saturday came and no show of lenny as he was working in a club/pub in hempney i dunno where it is hempney or even if ive spelled it correct sorry if i have, but that where lenny was working the night roy shaw was to tell him off,so roy knew where he worked he said and went down dunno if he said he got in trouble down there fighing wise or there was trouble down there thats why they ad lenny on the door but he went down told lenny to keep out the pub and lenny said ok (which i doubt) yeah ok roy no problem buddy but want to fight me winner takes all okey dokey lenny deal, well thats whats allegidly happend lenny said ok when told to keep out the pub of his friends then said to roy unless you want to fight me winner takes all kind of thing as shaw said and thats how there feud began, mclean won 2 shaw won 1 but roy shaw keps this i was sedated thats why he knocked me out with taken sorry drinking ultra gemsing or someting as they had no capsules that he usually took ,fight 3 ,vitamin E4 1000mg is to blame for that loss, well there athletes to this day still being caught for taking drung endurance uppers to last longer etc as u know but wtf go into a fight sedated as he says in his own words ill find the video,he still has this 2 loss thing stuck on his shoulders to this day and even said lenny mclean was no guvnor,either way both get my respect, espec lenny,shaw was mentiond in a post as being in mental institutions etc was nutts, maybe he was on medication he wont admit as he dont want to go back in to his illness past or we just will never know apart from shaw saying lenny beat him twice to his once,one of lennys friends over the yrs dave courtney talks on it but funny enough hes saying about the two fights lenny one as oh maybe lenny got the (upper hand in thoses FIGHTS) BUT ON THE COBBLES, 5 STONE HEAVIER ROY SHAW WOULDA BEAT HIM,so dave was shaw sedated and got took advantage of or u saying lenny won fair and square and shaw is still out is nutt from vitamin E, brute force by roy shaw about lenny mclean was the video i watchedunless he was out his nutt doing it and talking facts butmissing stuff out i believe lenny had no problem beaten him,even after his loss if that even happend as its never been found why a dont know,one thing both there names will live on ppl can call them jokers,mugs etc, but1 is dead and the other is still crazy if u gave him cheek he would get flash backs and think ur the guvnor and bury ye coz when he talks in that documentary hes either on medication or took some serious damage fighting over his years with what they had the cheek to call boxing gloves,wow well that was a thing of the past talking about lenny and roy ,big topic of who wold win well hopefully ive put the end to it about who won the fights as lenny won 2 shaw won 1 but shaw says he was sedated but hey roy if u read this bud lenny didnt sedate ye you did, NO EXCUSES, still both legends in there days,hopefully someone will get there act together and get lenny mcleans true life story out because as a said if bronson can get one for doing time, lenny shouldav had one yrs back. R.I.P LENNY MCLEAN


Fu*k me !

See these mate............. full stops there called, try using them....

My god that was some essay !!


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

below roy shaw brute force - roy shaw speaks abot fighting lenny mclean, shortvideo clip of shaw very rare


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## Young_Monster (Feb 13, 2010)

Tbh I don't give a s**t it's the old my dads harder than yours


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## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

Lenny but Roy is still a huge bloke now despite his age


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Ive met Roy a lot over the years, as he is good friends with my old boxing trainer who used to run the unlicensed fight scene in London/Essex.The thing about Roy that was always alarming was his expression/reaction when you speak to him.You know when you make a comment, joke etc, you expect a predictable response.Well Roy would not always react as you would expect.The smile, laugh might be delayed a few seconds, just enough for you to think," Oh gawd have I said the wrong thing" then when the response came you let a sigh of relief.Remember Goodfellas.The scene in the resturant when Tommy did the "What is so funny about me?" thing.Well it was a bit like that at times.

One episode that was not exagerated happened about 25 years ago.Roy used to drink in a localish pub.One night as I was walking in,He pulled up in his Bentley.At That precise moment another car pulled into "Roys parking spot" Roy exited his car and approached the driver who was making for the pub entrance.Despite much protesting, Roys claim to the parking spot, were met with indifference.He grabbed hold of this bloke,dragged him over to his car and began repeatedly banging the blokes head on the bonnet.Then the wing etc.He went Mental.Suffice to say after a minute or so, he understood the pubs parking rules, and promptly moved his car.

Just for the record, I have never been or aspired to be hard.Ive just been around a bit.


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

I think the important question is who is most likely to punch a gorilla


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

its not the my dads bigger than ur dad situation m8 , both these guys get praises and joked at, i certainly wouldnt mess with either them if lenny was still here to, but like, essexboy said about roy shaw going beserk over a car space the reason lenny and roy never went pro boxing where they had the potential but were just to unpredictable with there temper and rage, they could not enter licensed boxing due to there unpredictable temper, there violent reputation and criminal records therefore entered the murky world of unlicensed boxing (which despite being legal, was not sanctioned by the British Boxing Board of Control) and quickly became one of the biggest names in that field. When Frank Warren formed the national boxing council in the 1970s, it allowed the toughest underground fighters in britain to compete legally. so imagine what tyson done through rage and all what was happening to him at the time then hes repeadetly headbutted on the fly by holyfield to the extent he goes nutts and takes a chunk out his ear, well imagine these 2 in pro boxing,roy shaw would last 2 fights then end up a in boxing royal rumble if he got headbutted on the fly that the ref kept saying fight, lenny mclean would proberly go the same way by using his oppoent as a footall shoutig im the guvnor while his underworld gangland friend sat having the place rigged with so many threats for protection rackets etc it would be crazy, those guys just wouldnt last in pro boxing just plain and simple there was not a drop of discipline between the 2 of them, id like to see who would try tell them to train and what to do, there trainer would end up in hospital and either 1 on a GBH charge.


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## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

cliff fields beat both of them and had a much better unlicenced record but lenny did beat roy twice


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

retro-mental said:


> cliff fields beat both of them and had a much better unlicenced record but lenny did beat roy twice


This name rings a bell, there wasnt much to him was there either ??


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## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

Milky said:


> This name rings a bell, there wasnt much to him was there either ??


From what i have seen he was a tall big built bloke but not like lenny who was huge, Johnny waldron kncoked lenny out twice and i think it was both 1st rounds k.o's but gorman again would have smashed them all


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

retro-mental said:


> From what i have seen he was a tall big built bloke but not like lenny who was huge, Johnny waldron kncoked lenny out twice and i think it was both 1st rounds k.o's but gorman again would have smashed them all


I mean no disrespect to Fields here but was he a bit slow or something ?

Something stands out about him...


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

yeah lenny mclean did lose a good few of his fights ,think the mclean vs shaw was a personal thing, im going to get bartley gormans book if possible as ive no read anything on him i know hes the king of the gypsies from what you have told me mate so thanks ill like to read about him, i know theres been alot of king of the gypsies over the decades way back to the 1800s or even more scotland had a few one i know of a bit is billy marshall who was maried unbelieveably 17 times he lived to staggering 120 yr old even claimed to have had 4 kids after his 100th birthday which i find mad, but you never know i guess as he had so many , england has had the most gypsie kings, goes as far as bulgaria and polan even the united states, crazy but very understandable in there world they lived most were proberly criminals as scottish billy marshall, deserted the army seven times or more the navy 4 or 5 and was even called king of the randies which i have no idea is, but billy marshall was everything criminal wise ud expect ,murderer, gang leader,robber etc his grave is at st cuthbard church yard which im sure is in edinburgh maye wrong but even to this day when a gypsy passes they leave a coin at his grave, from other ppl u have me looking at now ,guess being a king of the gypsies back then wass like royalty for all they did wrrong alot spared there lives as countrys say gypsy kings were either a jinx or something, now i get the term when my mum said to me never refuse a gypsie from ur door if there selling something it bad luck lol.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

sine-metu said:


> yeah lenny mclean did lose a good few of his fights ,think the mclean vs shaw was a personal thing, im going to get bartley gormans book if possible as ive no read anything on him i know hes the king of the gypsies from what you have told me mate so thanks ill like to read about him, i know theres been alot of king of the gypsies over the decades way back to the 1800s or even more scotland had a few one i know of a bit is billy marshall who was maried unbelieveably 17 times he lived to staggering 120 yr old even claimed to have had 4 kids after his 100th birthday which i find mad, but you never know i guess as he had so many , england has had the most gypsie kings, goes as far as bulgaria and polan even the united states, crazy but very understandable in there world they lived most were proberly criminals as scottish billy marshall, deserted the army seven times or more the navy 4 or 5 and was even called king of the randies which i have no idea is, but billy marshall was everything criminal wise ud expect ,murderer, gang leader,robber etc his grave is at st cuthbard church yard which im sure is in edinburgh maye wrong but even to this day when a gypsy passes they leave a coin at his grave, from other ppl u have me looking at now ,guess being a king of the gypsies back then wass like royalty for all they did wrrong alot spared there lives as countrys say gypsy kings were either a jinx or something, now i get the term when my mum said to me never refuse a gypsie from ur door if there selling something it bad luck lol.







Good watch mate.... :thumbup1:


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

thanks milky for that video of gorman, i can see the way they live looks peaceful but one bad word against any his blood relatives and u have a fight and from the dvd i have of mix gypsie fights but mostly just young guys in there 20s it was the same, the ring was 4 cars boxed like a ring in a forest etc and the two gypsie familys would be there not all but the men side and they would let the 2 say cosins of each family fight they had rules as gorman said 1 u didnt hit him if u knocked him down like u see in street fights with clons nowadays jumping on heads etc, the fighter was alllowed back up and the fight continued for along time as like gorman said none of the 2 wanted to let there family down,once a winner finaly came out of the fight through one giving up that winner would usually fight another member of that family soon as he had beat one of there own it was crazy how it kept going till it was eventually sorted out so many fights later, but gorman i dunno what age he is but in that video he can still pack a punch and hearing him telling of a family trying to cut his leg of is insane, proves it would take that so he woudnt be where and what he is today as king of the gypsies, there not much different from ourselves as obvously if one of our family members gets a kicking we dont sit back sy its ok we go d something about it but they arranged it where it was toe to toe, intresting guy i definately want his book espec if it has his life story as he said hes been and seen alot he wouldnt wish on a dog, so u cant een imagine what it is it sounds that bad,retired lol yeah till u say something about his son or something then es gunning for you for a square go,he said it himself hes retired but in the gypsie world ur never retired unless ur basically passed it and on crouches, thanks milky realy enjoyed that ,his book will be intresting. cheers


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Anyone heard of Lew Yates? He beat Shaw and McLean would not fight him.


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## buzzzbar (Sep 17, 2009)

you tube video of the guv'nor vs pretty boy shaw


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## retro-mental (Dec 2, 2010)

Lew wildthing yates was a beast and got the name wildthing for obvious reason

milky i dont know if fields was slow or anything. there is not to much about him around

another so say king was bernie ward. bartleys book is a good read and gave me a good insight to the gypsy way of life.


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

just ur asic doorman, bare knuckle, fighter but fought a pro european champ billy aird but was disqualified for doing a roy shaw special and rapiin the head in the boxer then flung the ref across the ring, also didnt just fight mclean but also ,cliff Fields, drug dealer mickey Green. great train robber charlie wilson to name but a few...


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

buzzzbar said:


> you tube video of the guv'nor vs pretty boy shaw


yeah roy shaw u can speak what you want bud but if you were sedated in ur losses against through ultra gensing etc u certainly ran in like u were rocky fresh as a daisty to then almost get your had took off in under 5 minutes, i was told during there first fight the reason lenny asked for the fight to be stopped as his gloves had been doctered with which didnt make them do any good, so i wondered if asking for a rematch after hes allegidly said roy tell them to stop roy as shaw said in tht brute force video is all bs, i think shaw just has the hump that he couldnt beat lenny fair ,maybe the reason tey fought is true but from what u see lenny doing to shaw thats not a beating thats a warning as in dont come back less yer crazy which we know he was with being in a mental institution at broadmoor ,definately think shaws took to many hits ,but i talk my mind but i still wouldnt say it to him this day or next ,





 shaw saying sedted etc lol does he look sedated coming in that ring buzzar posted of there rematch 2nd fight, no way maybe looked sedated on the way out but not on the way in, that run to the ring was straight out a rocky movie was just waiting on eye of the tiger playing lol

but milky has put me on a new track to bartley gorman i just dont know what book to get first as a want them all lol and will end up with them all but he has a good few.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=the+king+of+the+gypsies&tag=mh0a9-21&index=stripbooks&hvadid=47523241&ref=pd_sl_9fikkuomam_e


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

much were they getting paid then £100.000 or did i hear or see gorman mention up to a million pound a fight?


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## bighead1985 (Dec 31, 2010)

mr.buffnstuff said:


> pretty conclusive of shaw vs mclean!


How does Roy Shaw get up after all them shots to the head????


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## sine-metu (Jul 12, 2011)

have a look at the video roy shaw on fighting lenny mclean, its called on youtube he says he was so sedated lenny just knocked him out yeah he ran in realy sedated like, NOT, ran in more like rocky, maybe sedated on the way out, after watching these old videos again shaw is definately making out lenny only won coz shaw drank something to relax him but took to much then there 3 rd and last he blamed taking 4 1000mg of vitamin E in the morning but it was still in his sytem tht night , excuses i say he was beat fair and square he just cant get oer it it was his first defeat and by lenny.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Roy was a promising pro fighter.He actually beat the guy who fought Leon Spinks if I recall correctly.He then got banged up and when he was released the British Boxing Board, wouldnt give him a licence.His mate Joey Pyle, then began the unlicenced circuit so Roy could fight..Because of the publicity surround the fight, with "Donny the Bull" the police were aware.As bare knuckle fighting is illegal, that wasnt going to happen.The idea was that after the first round, the crowd was going to link arms and surround the ring,Then Roy and Donny would take off the gloves and go at it bare knuckle, making it impossible for the police to intervene.However that didnt transpire as Roy knocked him out in a few seconds.From the proceeds of that fight he bought a house in Brox Hill Rd, which is a few miles from me.Its a large detached Place, and some of his neighbours were celebrities, so it must have been lucrative.He son Gary also fights on the unlicenced circuit.He was in one of the toughest fights Ive ever witnessed.Despite being outboxed, and terribly damaged he wouldnt back off or slow down,till the final bell.He was in a right mess,but refused to sucumb.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

chilisi said:


> He doesn't really sound like a nice bloke to be around to be honest.


Well I wouldnt have chosen him as a "friend" Chilli, but when you met certain people in social circles, its inevitable that you will at some point have to interact with them.If you have common ground, (boxing) it makes it slightly less dauting.About 8 years ago, he was at a fight.My ex girlfriends daughter, who was 16 at the time was slightly in awe of the whole "tough guy" thing.She kept pestering me to get Roys autograph.So, I got a copy of his book,and asked him to sign it, to Carly.He asked for a pen, which i gave him.Once he signed it, he offered the pen back to me, as i took it,he tightened his grip on it.Now we both have hold of the pen in a tugging match! He gave me the coldest glare and said "My Pen!" I was just about to let go, when he released his grip, and burst out laughing! He obviously realised hed scared me, and thought it amusing.Just boyish fun really no harm meant (I dont think)


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## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

I remember I was in the blind beggar one night with Roy and a fair old number of other names. Some lad was ****ed up and was kicked out (he fell asleep in the bar). Decided to have a pop at the first person he seen which happened to be Roy!!! He was shouting "you don't know who I am, I'll f*ckin have you mate". Roy just laughed and let the lad carry on having a pop... he could have quite easily beat the lad into a paper mache shape


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

GeordieSteve said:


> I remember I was in the blind beggar one night with Roy and a fair old number of other names. Some lad was ****ed up and was kicked out (he fell asleep in the bar). Decided to have a pop at the first person he seen which happened to be Roy!!! He was shouting "you don't know who I am, I'll f*ckin have you mate". Roy just laughed and let the lad carry on having a pop... he could have quite easily beat the lad into a paper mache shape


I have a mate who was / is a very handy fu**er...

He was walking home one night when a lad walking towards him decided to come the tough guy..... my mate tells him to shut up being a dick.... his mate knows my mate and says " sorry Dirk l will deal with him"

my mate goes home puts the kettle on... next min knock at the door, its the "tough" guy....

" are you Dirk "

"yeah"

"Dirk B***h"

" yeah why whats your problem !

" mate l am so sorry l was pi**ed, dont hammer me please mate l swear l didnt know it was you..... sorry mate honestly sorry "

My mate says " go home you puff and think on next time"

Lad wanted to buy his beer for weeks after that....... funny as fu*k...


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## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

Milky... reminds me of this bud


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

GeordieSteve said:


> Milky... reminds me of this bud


Watched that a bit back mate funny as fu*k....

My mate had a fair old dig tho, never lost one. When he hit someone it made a noise like a car hitting a dog, a real sickening thud and you knew they werent getting up.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

chilisi said:


> Sounds like he's used to people being scared of him and likes throw his weight around, from what you have said about him.


I think hes mellowed with age somewhat.I dont think he ever threw his weight around.I think that would be an unfair asessment.


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