# Cut or bulk? (Pics)



## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

Alright lads!

Well I'm abit stuck here I currently weigh 12 stone at the start of the year I was 15 and a half well what I've got here is that I don't know if I should keep me cut going or bulk up over winter to gain more muscle then cut more here's pics.

I'll take any advice and nice one ????


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

Cut mate! There's a point to where bulking is pointless and I think you've met that stage now pal! Anything over 15% bf and I'd cut!


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Is hard one, but ill say cut as u would make better gains once u lean out more


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

Cut, without a doubt.


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

Yeah it's been doing my nut in a while because i don't wanna cut down and be real skinny and I also don't want to go more fat that I've worked off over the year, just looking for a bit of advice, nice one pal ????


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Do a kinda recomp...

lower cals but not too low and eat clean, time your carbs around your workout and lower the rest of the day with fats and based on your current state you should be able to add muscle size and drop bf simultaneously...


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

I'll keep that in mind big jim, my deficit right now is 1700 just sick of working me **** of in the gym and not getting gains because I'm on a never ending cut ???? also could you's give me a bf% estimate cause these intent ones don't work for sh*t, thanks lads!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

jackdublin said:


> I'll keep that in mind big jim, my deficit right now is 1700 just sick of working me **** of in the gym and not getting gains because I'm on a never ending cut ???? also could you's give me a bf% estimate cause these intent ones don't work for sh*t, thanks lads!


Need to have bf tested properly but Id say 20s maybe high 20s...


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

big_jim_87 said:


> Need to have bf tested properly but Id say 20s maybe high 20s...


That's though to swallow when you have been cutting the past year ha ha well nice one pal, I'm just gonna keep with my cut give me two months and I'll be down another stone haha


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

Just remember bf% is just a number at the end of the day, means fvck all mate. Keep going until you're happy with how you look, not chasing a number.

I'd cut btw, unless you're happy with how you look atm. Bulking is tough mentally if you're uncomfortable with the amount of body fat you have.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

jackdublin said:


> That's though to swallow when you have been cutting the past year ha ha well nice one pal, I'm just gonna keep with my cut give me two months and I'll be down another stone haha


mate just plug away...

for all out fat loss I rate keto style diet with weekly carb ups.


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

ki3rz said:


> Just remember bf% is just a number at the end of the day, means fvck all mate. Keep going until you're happy with how you look, not chasing a number.
> 
> I'd cut btw, unless you're happy with how you look atm. Bulking is tough mentally if you're uncomfortable with the amount of body fat you have.


Nice one mate! Yeah I understand you I'm happy enough what I have for the moment like I'm not gonna lose any sleep or anything but I do have goals I want to and will reach in the future


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

big_jim_87 said:


> mate just plug away...
> 
> for all out fat loss I rate keto style diet with weekly carb ups.


Yeah I have thought about keto and all that but I can never get my heard around it and I do love my carbs  have to say over this year I have learnt a lot in fitness so I'm just gonna keep what I'm at, was just thinking bulk to gain more muscle because I can't whilst I'm on a cut and thinking all my heavy lifting is going to waste daily! Haha nice one brother


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

jackdublin said:


> I'll keep that in mind big jim, my deficit right now is 1700 just sick of working me **** of in the gym and not getting gains because I'm on a never ending cut ???? also could you's give me a bf% estimate cause these intent ones don't work for sh*t, thanks lads!


Probably high 20's IMO


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

jackdublin said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> Well I'm abit stuck here I currently weigh 12 stone at the start of the year I was 15 and a half well what I've got here is that I don't know if I should keep me cut going or bulk up over winter to gain more muscle then cut more here's pics.
> 
> I'll take any advice and nice one ????


Bodyfat looks around 20-25% so would def cut. Would you really be happy looking in the mirror after putting more fat on?

Once your around 10% you will be able to bulk up and see your progress much better.


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## R1CHY (Jan 1, 2013)

Reading this thread has saved me a new thread and everyone else From repeating themselves lol. Need to shift this tractor tyre to see what i have underneath.


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

R1CHY said:


> Reading this thread has saved me a new thread and everyone else From repeating themselves lol. Need to shift this tractor tyre to see what i have underneath.


That's it richy!


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

Heath said:


> Bodyfat looks around 20-25% so would def cut. Would you really be happy looking in the mirror after putting more fat on?
> 
> Once your around 10% you will be able to bulk up and see your progress much better.


You're right I wouldn't, losing fat and then gaining more would drive me mental! Nice one pal sound advice


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

jackdublin said:


> You're right I wouldn't, losing fat and then gaining more would drive me mental! Nice one pal sound advice


When you get to around 15% you will probably feel flat and small but get to 10% and you will actually look bigger/more muscular.

Your partitioning when gaining should also be better from leaner.

No need for any fad diets like keto unless you prefer that style of dieting.

1g of protein per lbs bodyweight

0.45g fats per lbs bodyweight

Rest cals from carbs or whatever you prefer.

Keep your lifting routine based on lifting heavy. None of that lighter weights higher reps for cutting crap 

All the best


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

Ahh man I have the suss with my diet I'm actually studying fitness haha just hit my macros and keep my cals on deficit and it'll roll off, they reason behind the thread was I wanted some advice on a clean bulk to gain muscle but it looks like that's out the window 

Haha light weights? What's that


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

You need to cut more, but if you are absolutely sick to the b011ocks of dieting, you may benefit from increasing calories to maintenance level for a couple of months, letting yourself gain a bit more muscle, then getting back into cutting in the new year.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Cut


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

Cut. most people would keep their winter coats, but I recon you should see what you can make of what you got. Get in there and get some pics up in a month or two


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

A lot depends on how hard you're finding it to get those final few lbs off. I'm guessing it's not been easy if you've been cutting and only lost a couple of stone in a year.

I'd be looking to get rid of the fat around the midriff but not at any price - I'm not a big fan of the skinny-fat look.

If it's not coming off, shock the body with a quick 6 week bulk. Pack on as much muscle as you can in that time. Then cut hard.


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## SteveMUFC (May 30, 2012)

jackdublin said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> Well I'm abit stuck here I currently weigh 12 stone at the start of the year I was 15 and a half well what I've got here is that I don't know if I should keep me cut going or bulk up over winter to gain more muscle then cut more here's pics.
> 
> I'll take any advice and nice one ????


I was at a similar stage where you are now and tbh with u I thought cutting was the answer but I ended up being a "smaller version of my big self" as there was nothing to cut to. I done a clean bulk and when I had muscle to cut to cutting was more enjoyable as you see the shape you want to form. Not saying my body is 100% now but I'm saying if you had a base to cut to and you see them popping through cutting is much better no point cutting to bones. Do a clean bulk for a few months and hit a keto diet for a abit to drop all the water weight and abit of fat. Do it until you get to the desired size and definition


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

SteveMUFC said:


> I was at a similar stage where you are now and tbh with u I thought cutting was the answer but I ended up being a "smaller version of my big self" as there was nothing to cut to. I done a clean bulk and when I had muscle to cut to cutting was more enjoyable as you see the shape you want to form. Not saying my body is 100% now but I'm saying if you had a base to cut to and you see them popping through cutting is much better no point cutting to bones. Do a clean bulk for a few months and hit a keto diet for a abit to drop all the water weight and abit of fat. Do it until you get to the desired size and definition


Yeah it's a pr*ck isint it! I'm sure I have a alright amount of muscle under this fat that if I did cut down there would be something there, but I'm afraid ill get to skinny and lose 50% of my strength, but I also don't wanna gain fat on a bulk, what was your diet like on your clean bulk? And keto.. I don't think it's for me! Thanks bro


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## SteveMUFC (May 30, 2012)

jackdublin said:


> Yeah it's a pr*ck isint it! I'm sure I have a alright amount of muscle under this fat that if I did cut down there would be something there, but I'm afraid ill get to skinny and lose 50% of my strength, but I also don't wanna gain fat on a bulk, what was your diet like on your clean bulk? And keto.. I don't think it's for me! Thanks bro


If your worried about losing gains I would hit a cycle if you think you can't keep up the protein required to maintain the gains. Something like a anavar cycle 100mg/day for 12 weeks. Or a test cycle for 12 weeks while cutting. Little things make a difference 

It was simple 200g of meat/fish/beef with 100g carbs for each meal. With protein shakes and eggs for breakfast. Keeping most carbs lost workout


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

SteveMUFC said:


> If your worried about losing gains I would hit a cycle if you think you can't keep up the protein required to maintain the gains. Something like a anavar cycle 100mg/day for 12 weeks. Or a test cycle for 12 weeks while cutting. Little things make a difference
> 
> It was simple 200g of meat/fish/beef with 100g carbs for each meal. With protein shakes and eggs for breakfast. Keeping most carbs lost workout


Awh I'm not gonna go near the juice atall haha I don't have the head for it, or the cash! Yeah that seems alright, I'm sure if can hit my protein intake daily depends what it is I would just use the 40/30/30 for my macros, think I'll cut more bf down and clean bulk back up


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

big_jim_87 said:


> mate just plug away...
> 
> for all out fat loss I rate keto style diet with weekly carb ups.


Agree with this I find keto diets alot easier to follow aswell


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

Train hard with the weights and cardio.

Your diet should 100% be directed towards losing body fat!


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

Mate your body fat is easily around 25%, do you really think you should bulk?

If I was you I would train push/pull/legs 3 times a week lifting heavy. Also 15 mins fasted hiit in the morning.

I would be patient and cut to at least 12% before you even think about bulking again.


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

SkinnyJ said:


> Mate your body fat is easily around 25%, do you really think you should bulk?
> 
> If I was you I would train push/pull/legs 3 times a week lifting heavy. Also 15 mins fasted hiit in the morning.
> 
> I would be patient and cut to at least 12% before you even think about bulking again.


Trust me mate I train a lot I've been cutting a while and have lost a lot of weight this year, was just looking to see if I should gain a clean bit of mass over the winter so I could have more muscle when I cut than what I have now, I have my diet 100% it's never been better my cardio would be pump classes/trx and spin classes. I have a good bit of strength and a good weight lifting program was just looking for advice if I should gain a tad bit more muscle, well I got what I came for and I'm gonna keep cutting! Thank you all for replying I appreciate it a lot!

-jack


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> You need to cut more, but if you are absolutely sick to the b011ocks of dieting, you may benefit from increasing calories to maintenance level for a couple of months, letting yourself gain a bit more muscle, then getting back into cutting in the new year.


I didn't know you could gain muscle on maintience? That sounds good


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

lee85 said:


> Cut. most people would keep their winter coats, but I recon you should see what you can make of what you got. Get in there and get some pics up in a month or two


Nice one lee! I will follow up


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## pucetr (Nov 13, 2013)

You could give this a try comes from a very reputable HRT specialist from another board i am on!

Cheers

Austinite's Fat Loss Protocol using Over the Counter Products.

Understanding Fat:

Did you know that your fat cells remain with you forever? That's right. They don't magically disappear, they don't turn into muscle and they don't burn away. When you lose fat-weight, you're actually shrinking the fat cells. That's it. Fat cells are there to stay, in your stomach, arms, thighs, etc... So now you understand the concept. We are working on shrinking fat cells here. There are no more fat cells to accumulate. Only expansion and shrinkage. There are 2 stages of accumulating fat cells, in the womb, and one last time during puberty. After that we're done accumulating. This is mainly why I made the decision to put an end to bulking cycles a while back.

My Experience:

I've been on this protocol for a little over a month from the date of this post. I am pleased with my experience. This is while eating at TDEE, not under. I'm doing basic maintenance calories. I've been supplementing with green tea for a while, but haven't taken mega-doses until this experiment. Chromium was never in my diet, so that's new to me. Finally, Synephrine is also new to me.

It's merely impossible for me to lose fat while eating at maintenance. I've never had the pleasure of meeting this occurrence until now. In just a little over 30 days, I lost 5.6 lbs of fat. Doesn't sound like much, huh? Well, I can tell you that without this protocol, not only would I have not lost a single ounce, but I would have gained some fat. So imagine the effects it would have in a caloric deficit. LBM change was a slight increase. While I said earlier that I am no longer running bulking cycles, those of you who still plan on bulking, this might actually be a perfect stack. But let's focus on fat loss here...

As you know, the lower your body fat percentage, the harder it is to lose fat. I'm at 12.06% today. I assure you, that someone between 16 to 20% would see much better results than I did. It's no secret... The heavier you are, the more you'll notice. This goes for any successful diet/protocol.

Ingredients Needed:

1. Chromium Picolinate

2. Synephrine

3. EGCG (Green Tea Extract)

How Each Ingredient Works:

Chromium:

I've been using this for just a little over a month now. After member basketballfan22 asked me about it in my protocol thread, I realized that my knowledge was pretty limited and that triggered some heavy duty research on my part. My findings were quite astonishing and had me running to the store for the supplement. I had to find out for myself, and I'm happy to report that in just over a month, I'm putting my stamp of approval on this one.

Chromium is quite underrated. My research shows that many of us are actually deficient. This has everything to do with agricultural practices and processing by manufacturers. In other words, you're not getting enough chromium from the food you purchase at your local store. You can also blame the government, too! Dang FDA regulations!

We all have cravings, especially for starchy foods and sweets. Acting on these cravings above moderation raises insulin levels. That's a surefire way to increase fat cell size. Couple that with a chromium deficiency and you can pretty much forget about fat loss. Unless you burn an astronomical amount of calories daily (most of us don't), you'll gain fat and even potentially become a diabetic. Chromium can and will balance insulin levels and inevitably leading to a smaller fat cell. The insulin-sensitivity-regulating mineral will help redirect your appetite away from sweets and starches because you're finally balanced and able to properly process and metabolize sweet foods, starches, etc....

Chromium is also a key player in energy. Almost everyone on earth complains of fatigue, one of the main side effects of a deficient body. That will help add more minutes on the treadmill.

Warning: Consult with your doctor if you are diabetic before supplementing with Chromium.

Synephrine:

In many ways, this is actually pretty similar to the popular Ephedrine. Much safer, however, dosing still requires caution. I can say this from experience. It's considerably powerful. To give you an example of the measurement used, I've attached an image of the micro-scoop used for a single dose. I almost laughed when I saw the dose, but I followed instructions and it works. It works right away, I could feel it in less than 20 minutes. I also attempted tripling the dose and that didn't go over so well.

Anyway, Synephrine is derived from both plants and animals. When looking for it, you may find that it's labeled as "Orange Extract". Synephrine will increase your metabolic rate by increasing lipolysis. So all great news so far. Get on amazon to find it, you can get 5 grams pretty cheap and considering the 20mg high dose, this will last you for a very long time. Just mix it with some water drink it.

Warning: Check your blood pressure while using this. Do not use if you have HBP.

EGCG; Green Tea Extract:

I drink diet green tea everyday as part of my liquid intake. But supplementing with an extract in pill form will yield much more effective dosages. Most folks who claim no results from green tea are the ones who run to the store, purchase some Lipton tea bags and have a cup of hot tea before bed. Forget that nonsense. High doses are required for green tea to make a difference. Let's see how...

You may have heard the abbreviation: EGCG. This is Epigallocatechin Gallate. The main component in green tea. This component has an effect on your daily energy expenditure, as you'll burn more calories than you normally would, even at rest. Drinking Lipton tea will not provide enough EGCG.

Important information regarding purchasing this product: You need to be careful when purchasing green tea extract, many of them out there have low percentages of EGCG, so be sure to read the label very carefully and look at the content. Do not search for green tea, search for EGCG as those specifically labeled with the abbreviation will typically have the highest content. For the protocol, you need 600mg of EGCG. I recommend NOW foods, they carry a product that contains 200mg of EGCG per pill. So for our protocol you'd be taking 3 pills.

Note: Take green tea extract with your daily fish oil supplement, this will increase bioavailability.

The Protocol:

Chromium: 800mcg daily

Synephrine: 10 mg (1 scoop), for 3 days, if you feel OK, increase to 20 mg (2 scoops)

EGCG: 600mg daily (that's 600mg of EGCG, not to be confused with total green tea extract)

Frequently Asked Questions:

When do I take this stack and how often?

Because Synephrine works very quickly, I recommend that you take everything pre-workout. Once a day is all you need.

Should I take it on days I'm not working out?

Absolutely, yes. Take it everyday until you're happy with your progress. I recommend that you give yourself a 7 day break from Synephrine every 30 days.

Will I look like kelkel in 30 days?

No, dummy. The man has never seen a treadmill and has abs of steel. But in 30 days you should have a noticeable difference. Your jeans will be looser.

Do I need to eat below TDEE?

Well, preferably. But since March, I've been eating at maintenance and haven't lost an ounce until I started this protocol and lost fat. This protocol was the only change I made.

Are there any side effects?

Chromium and EGCG will not give you any issues. Just be cautious with Synephrine as it's similar to ephedrine. Taking too much can make you jittery and give you that nasty "nervous" feeling in your elbows. Start low and increase slowly. I can only handle 2 micro-scoops. You might be able to do more but I don't recommend you attempt it because it works at smaller doses. As mentioned above, give yourself a week break for every month you're on it.


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## muaythai (Feb 10, 2013)

I would carry on cutting mate


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Cut for sure.


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## loueey (Jun 30, 2010)

Better drop those cals bro and cut


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

After Xmas got back on the cut with a new diet, here's recent pictures can anyone notice a difference?


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

In the side on picture there is a definite difference IMO. Keep going bud, you'll get there!


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## Vivid (May 14, 2009)

Keep going pal, results come quicker as you get leaner. Def wouldn't consider bulking until lean, been there mate, took 3 years of bulking/cutting to get to where i am now, i'd say the majority of that time was spent cutting.


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm not cutting cals anymore, I'm just eating clean, high protein, cut out white carbs and wheat, sugars and all that, I've seen a few changes


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

definatley looking leaner. keep it up.


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## DaveCW (Dec 9, 2013)

you and i are at the same point in transformation, almost identical lol bit scary.

Your doing really well mate keep cutting.

I have introduced bcca's for intra workout to preserve as much as possible while i reduce bf, every little bit helps.

Also sup with Vit C to reduce water retention.

Best Of Luck


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Dat der burger nips


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

100%cut


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

jackdublin said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> Well I'm abit stuck here I currently weigh 12 stone at the start of the year I was 15 and a half well what I've got here is that I don't know if I should keep me cut going or bulk up over winter to gain more muscle then cut more here's pics.
> 
> I'll take any advice and nice one ????


cut mate all the way

I dont belive in old skool bulking now anyway

lean gains are far better and u can see where u are growing

look like a bodybuilder 24/7 365 in good condition year round

not just good for few months then getting all out of shape on bulk

Id say go for lean gains mate,, carb cycle keeping protein high and carbs high on back and legs day

then other days have a medium carb day and low carb days

Increase fats higher on low days and drop them down on higher carb day

this will fire ur metabolism and keeep it guessing

great for dropping fat and maintaing muscle at same time

plus dextox ur body

plenty of good greens in ur diet and lots green tea


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## jackdublin (Jan 28, 2013)

Dazarms said:


> cut mate all the way
> 
> I dont belive in old skool bulking now anyway
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice man! I'm kinda following what you said there, and I'm dropping fat fast I'm down a stone in like 5 weeks and growing muscle


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