# another bulking fav of mine



## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

50g oats(raw) in blender for 10sec until a fine powder. then add 50g whey protien, and 1 pint milk, and 50ml oil and blend again:

lookng at around 1000kcals/80g protien.

thats what i have postworkout.


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## philipebrown (Nov 26, 2003)

and a teasp of peanut butter


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## Chemical Evolution (Aug 13, 2004)

Ever tryed it with a can of Tuna in?

if not dont?


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

the thought of doing that (tuna and or peanut butter) makes me want to vomit 

also, i think there is prolly a limit to the amount of protien the natural trainer can assymilate without wasting any at any one sitting. i have no way of backing this up, but logoc suggests that 80-100+g of protien in one sitting is pushing it.

you would be better eating your can of tnua/peanut butter on taost 1-2hrs after that. aim to get a positive nitrogen blanece throughout the day.

6 smaller meals is beter than 3 big ones imo.


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## Musclehed (Feb 17, 2004)

Interesting PWO meal, whats the theory behind it. I stil have a inbuilt phobia of mixing fats and carbs in the same meal (unless low g.i which I guess oatmeal kinda is)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Fats and carbs should be mixed together.

Carbs spike blood sugars which in turn spike insulin.

Insulin is a storage hormone.

Now fat suppresses insulin so fats with the meal will slow down the spiking of your blood sugar and give you more stable blood sugar levels without insulin.

Protein and fiber also do this.

Oats contain fiber which makes it low in the GI

All my meals i eat together with these macronutrients.


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## Z3R0-CooL (Mar 9, 2004)

i dont mix fats and carbs either.. i eat lots of fiber during my carb meals...

insulin and fatty acids? not a good idea..

NO FATS IN PWO!


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

you guys are over analysing this way too much imo.

my opinions in point form:

#1 your body need carbs PWO -oats (complex) and milk (simple sugars)

#2 your body needs protien PWO -whey (fast absorbtion) and milk (contains ceasin for slower absorbtion)

#3 mon and poly unstaurated fats are not bad for your health in reaosnable quantites. and they help slow the absorbtion of everything, including the sugars so as to reduce the impact the PWO shake has on blood-sugar levels....... would you tell someone not to eat fish and rice/potato in the same meal?

#4 insulin is a very powerful anabolic hormone, this is spiked by the simple sugars in the milk and will aid protien sysnthesis indirectly

#5 when your bulking, who cares if you put on a little fat. my bf% has gone up by 4% max in the last 6months, and i have gained over 20lbs.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I agree with you James.

My only point was that all macronutrients are ok when taken together.

In fact if you want to tweak the ratios somewhat (after workout spike) before bed (fats and protein) cool.

Insuline before bed shuts off the pituitary gland from producing HGH.

Insuline is not always your friend. It can be a foe if you are not smart.

Overfeeding produces a anabolic environment.

Dieting produces a catabolic environment.

About 2 weeks worth for homeostasis


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## Musclehed (Feb 17, 2004)

Sorry guys I got a busy day today, so can't reply just yet. Will get back to ya all tomorrow


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

Sounds like this one tomorrow is going to be one lengthy post!


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

whey in water pwo

decent meal half an hour later....job done

If you mix oats with whey pwo, you slow down the fast absorbtion of the whey.....which is the whole point of having whey after training

just being fussy LOL


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

whey in water=projectile vomiting for me i'm afraid. its revolting.

musclehead: i know all* the pros and cons behind it mate. you don;'t need to go into a lengthy post about macronutrient breakdwon and the affects things have on each other and the bodies reaction to it. point is, i use that PWO shake every time, and some days as an MRP** and have doen for ages with pleasing results.

*=most

**=i add in some fruit if its an MRP, usually berries.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Fats don't make you fat and they do not spike insulin. You have to eat fat to lose fat.

Fats are the most efficient source of energy the body can use.

Fats in your meal cause the release of a hormone called cholecystokinin (CCK) from the stomach.

This hormone tells the brain that you are satisified and stop eating.

So don't be afraid of fats, they're vital to eicosanoid production, and essential for reducing excess body fat, as well as generating overall good health.

In the 1950's Kekwick and Pawan at the university of London in England published a landmark study. They put patients on a diet that was low in calories (1,000 calories) but high in fat. In fact, fat supplied 90 % of the total calories.

What happened/

These patients lost significant amounts of weight.

When the same patients were put on a high carbohydrate diet (90 % of the calories as carbohydrate) with the same number of calories, there was virtually no weight loss.

Lets look at some research that supports the fat burning theory, this time from the Oakland Navel Hospital. Impressed with the Kekwick and Pawan success, Frederick Beoit and his associates decided to compare a 1000 calorie, 10-grams-of-carbohydrate, high-fat diet with fasting. Using seven men weighing between 230 and 290 pounds. They used state of the art body composition technology. After ten days, the fasting subjects lost 21 pounds on average, but most of that was lean body weight; only 7.5 pounds was body fat. However on the controlled carbohydrate regimen over the same period of time, 10 of the 14.5 pounds lost was body fat. Think of it. By eating foods low in carbohydrate and high in dietary fat, subjects burned their fat stores almost twice as fast as when they ate nothing at all!

Benoit's other exciting discovery was that on a fat burning regimen, subjects maintained their potassium levels, while subjects who fasted experienced major potassium losses. (potassium depletion can cause heart arrhythmia, which in severe cases, can be fatal.)

Still not convinced? Try this one. Charlotte Young, professor of clinical nutrition at Cornell University, compared the results of overweight young men placed on three diets, all providing 1800 calories, but with varying degrees of carbohydrate restriction. The regimens contained 30, 60, and 104 grams of carbohydrate, and subjects followed them for nine weeks. Young and her colleagues calculated body fat through a widely accepted technique involving immersion underwater.

Those on the 104 grams of carbs lost slightly better than 2 pounds of fat per week out of 2.73 pounds of total weight loss-not bad for 1800 calories.

Those on 60 grams of carbs lost nearly 2.5 pounds of fat per week out of 3 pounds of actual weight loss-better.

But those on 30 grams of carbs, the only situation that produced lipolysis and the secondary process of ketosis lost 3.73 pounds of fat per week approximately one hundred percent of their total weight loss.

Several other studies have shown that you can consume more calories and lose more weight than on low fat programs.

Muscle contractions require a unique chemical energy source called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). This energy source is rapidly used up with each muscle contraction and has to be replaced if you want more muscle contractions.

Making more of this energy source requires a lot of raw materials.

So the workers (enzymes) in the factories use the best available raw materials (fat or carbohydrate). They'd rather have fat, because it's a more efficient energy source and the body has a lot of it. (Carbohydrate is less efficient and you can't store much of it.) But if they can't get the fat they prefer, the enzymes switch to carbohydrate.

What determines the glycemic index? The primary factors are

(1)	the structure of the simple sugars in the food,

(2)	the soluble fiber content and,

(3)	the fat content.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I also want to add that you have a limited storage capacity for your muscles and liver. The liver is what the brain calls out for fuel.

High GI or low GI if you exceed your storage capacity of carbs this will get stored as fat.

With the presence of insulin your fat burning potential for fuel is cut off.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

nive post. very imfromative.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> whey in water=projectile vomiting for me i'm afraid. its revolting.


Depends which whey you use. A lot of the new wheys that use splenda (sucralose) as the sweetner actually taste very nice in water - in fact often better than with milk. I hate a lot of the older whey proteins in water - eas, reflex etc.. but newer products like whey gourmet and usn proteins taste great in water and too thick in milk.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

If fats make you fat then why do peanuts rate so low on the glysimic index? Fats supress insulin more than protein.



> I have no way of backing this up, but logic suggests that 80-100+g of protien in one sitting is pushing it.


I am going to have to agree here. The only way to get those kind of numbers is with a protein shake added with a big protein meal..............why?


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2004)

bob,

i use reflex instant whey. the chocolate flavour (horrible, but i bought 6 tubs all at once and still have loads left  ). when all that is gone i will try another brand, or maybe go back to unflavoured whey. thanks for the advice. have you tried the brands you mention?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I have chocolate USN pure protein, in water, just before bed. Tastes nice to me, kind of like good milk chocolate ice-cream  .


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## CRMon1 (Sep 23, 2004)

Getting bcak to what James.Titor said. How does your mixture taste? If it doesn't taste good, I know it won't work for me, because I won't drink it.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

taste should not have anything to do with it, but if you cant eat it then you cant eat it. Really good thread here, enjoyed reading.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

just had that for breakfast but without the oil as i didnt have any flax oil, is that the one your talking about?


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

why is james.titor banned, i really liked reading his posts! i hope he wasnt banned for some politically correct mundane reason.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Banned for name calling and making unappropriate posts.

He was asked to tone it down and he did not listen.


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