# Seated Row? GROW BACK DAM YOU!!!



## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

I've always done seated rows with my back straight and no swinging moment similar to this






But I never feel anything in my back my arms go before my back feels anything, my back only feels something if I'm doing dead lifts, checking some videos and people are swinging slightly?

Ronnie 






What is the correct / best form?


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Try back exercises that take arms out of the equation, like straight arm pull downs.


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## polishmate (Aug 15, 2013)

if you think the form of ronnie is crazy then check how arnold did them


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## skyfall (Aug 1, 2013)

Use a towel grip and you also improve forearm strength


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## smity220385 (Mar 15, 2012)

For form check out Branch Warren! I think people over do it on form sometimes


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Ronnie does them like me:whistling:


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## ducky699 (Jul 23, 2012)

form is important obviously but you need to shift heavy weight to grow. i would rather swing a little bit and lift an extra 20kg then perfect technique and lifting light


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

ducky699 said:


> form is important obviously but you need to shift heavy weight to grow. i would rather swing a little bit and lift an extra 20kg then perfect technique and lifting light


I couldn't disagree more

Try a lighter weight, you need to concentrate on pulling with your back and squeezing your shoulder blades together

I would not swing as you bring in too many other body parts and lose focus on your back


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

That's not a great video imo. You shouldn't keep your shoulders pinned back throughout the show movement otherwise your not getting a good stretch. It's about moving the back from a stretched position to a fully contracted position. Which in theory can be done almost just by moving your shoulders. Not just rowing the heaviest weight possible with your biceps and swing as others are suggesting (although that's not bad once in a while).

This is a really good vid. Not a cable row but the theory's the same. Bit about intention is golden:


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## ducky699 (Jul 23, 2012)

str4nger said:


> I couldn't disagree more
> 
> Try a lighter weight, you need to concentrate on pulling with your back and squeezing your shoulder blades together
> 
> I would not swing as you bring in too many other body parts and lose focus on your back


this worked for me....same with bench press, i was stuck on a weight so what i did is arch my back a tiny bit on the last few reps..within a couple of weeks i didnt need too, so i added weight, arched my back on a few reps etc etc....as long as he isnt being stupid and still using full ROM and squeezing at the back he will grow


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

im liking seated rows with a wide grip attachment right now


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Mingster said:


> Ronnie does them like me:whistling:


You do them like me :whistling:


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

Form is important but so is weight and overload

Start strict , thumbless grip try and pull from the elbow keep chest high and scrape your arms against your sides progressively increase weight and relax form a touch as weight increase


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## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

eezy1 said:


> im liking seated rows with a wide grip attachment right now


Which muscle does that attachment hit particularly?


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## Mish (May 1, 2011)

These are the staple of my back day. I should of been in the Cambridge team.

Close grip rows.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

The dudes form in the 1st vid is questionable anyway you want to open up your scapula not keep your shoulder blades pinched throughout the whole movement thats probably one of the reasons why his back is so small


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## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> Form is important but so is weight and overload
> 
> Start strict , thumbless grip try and pull from the elbow keep chest high and scrape your arms against your sides progressively increase weight and relax form a touch as weight increase


 Is it best to move just a small amount rather than sitting very straight and pulling into the lower sternum? I do sway a little, but not too much. I see some people rowing like they were on the river Thames....is that bad?


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

Fletch68 said:


> Is it best to move just a small amount rather than sitting very straight and pulling into the lower sternum? I do sway a little, but not too much. I see some people rowing like they were on the river Thames....is that bad?


Its depends on how you move

By this i mean if you lean forward on the stretch in a controlled manner and return to the upright position under control then this will only add to the movement however if you use low back swing to get the weight moving and momentum then its pointless

Also the more you lean back in the contracted position the more the load is transferred to upper back and trap and off the lats ( not what you want) you will be able to handle more weight that way but its a short lived bonus the kats have much more potential for growth and strength development


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## Leigh (Jun 13, 2012)

I do mine somewhere between the two (and I'm not saying I'm right - I just do what feels right for me).

I don't keep my shoulders pinched, like Scott, or with such a large arch.

I don't reach as far forward and rounded, as Ronnie - I keep a tighter form and control my breathing. There's a little more sway on the last few rows as I tire.

I love seated rows and do them for fun so my way may well be wrong!


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## Squirrel (Jun 7, 2009)

Probably get flamed but....For development I'd put seated rows in the same category as tricep kickbacks. If you want your back to grow try some heavy deadlifts, chins, rack pulls, T-Bar rows etc & save the seated rows for warm up.


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

You are supposed to lean forward...when working the lats its important that the arms stay locked at about a 90 degree angle otherwise it just becomes a bicep workout... leaning forward allows you to keep the arms locked in this way working the lats far harder though a greater range of motion.


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## James s (Sep 18, 2010)




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## Raw meat 1984 (Sep 17, 2008)

for me i incorportate the stretch/extension on the way back down but using the weight to stretch the lats out fully, the form come on the way back up, if you have to swing your back and use your arms the weight is too heavy, squeeze at the top and again slowly stretch out the lats on the way down.

works a treat for me.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

He's not gettin anything extra leanin all the way forward. His scapula is fully opened about a quarter of the way into the lean thats enough


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Breda said:


> He's not gettin anything extra leanin all the way forward. His scapula is fully opened about a quarter of the way into the lean


Yeah...no need to go that far forward, but staying completely upright like is see some people do it (and how i used to do it) definitely isn't working the lats as hard.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kefka said:


> You are supposed to lean forward...when working the lats its important that the arms stay locked at about a 90 degree angle otherwise it just becomes a bicep workout... leaning forward allows you to keep the arms locked in this way working the lats far harder though a greater range of motion.


Disagree

I have no problem working my back without leaning forward


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

MessyFunk said:


> Keep your shoulders pinned back and open up your elbows more, if the cable fixture is too low\high it will target your arms more


Open up your elbows ? Do uou mean flare them?


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Therealbigbear said:


> Disagree
> 
> I have no problem working my back without leaning forward


Yes but your back is tiny mate


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

MessyFunk said:


> Possibly? hard to explain, I mean there should be a slight bend at the elbows and the user should not start the first phase of the pull with completely straight arms, makes a huge difference for me but seems everyone has different experiences with this exercise :confused1:


Ahh not what i thought you meant ok understand what your getting at now


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

R0BLET said:


> Yes but your back is tiny mate


I know narrow as fcuk


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Therealbigbear said:


> I know narrow as fcuk


Pfft I've seen gnats with bigger backs


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Therealbigbear said:


> Ahh not what i thought you meant ok understand what your getting at now


can you build a good back without rowing? I hate rowing and seem too get more from chins,heavy hammer pulldowns

etc,by then im to knackered to row,i do a ton of sets of them,isnt rows for thickness pulldowns for width a load of

bollocks?


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Therealbigbear said:


> I know narrow as fcuk


LOL

Ok, Show off :tongue:


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


> can you build a good back without rowing? I hate rowing and seem too get more from chins,heavy hammer pulldowns
> 
> etc,by then im to knackered to row,i do a ton of sets of them,isnt rows for thickness pulldowns for width a load of
> 
> bollocks?


The thickness width thing has some merit but not as much as people give it

A varied approach to such a complex muscle group is always going to yield better results

Tbh id say no it will be lacking in some way


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


> can you build a good back without rowing? I hate rowing and seem too get more from chins,heavy hammer pulldowns
> 
> etc,by then im to knackered to row,i do a ton of sets of them,isnt rows for thickness pulldowns for width a load of
> 
> bollocks?


In short it will be lacking its a complex muscle grouping and needs hitting from varied angles


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Therealbigbear said:


> The thickness width thing has some merit but not as much as people give it
> 
> A varied approach to such a complex muscle group is always going to yield better results
> 
> Tbh id say no it will be lacking in some way


would heavy dbell rowing be enough to hit the lower lats then ,this exercise I find ok as it put no pressure

on my lower back,and maybe vary the row to hit diff areas of the back.


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> Disagree
> 
> I have no problem working my back without leaning forward


You will still hit your lats that way but only the end of the rep will be the lats doing the work...when the arms start extending too much the back takes less of the load...so each rep becomes 3/4 arms 1/4 back.


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

mal said:


> can you build a good back without rowing? I hate rowing and seem too get more from chins,heavy hammer pulldowns
> 
> etc,by then im to knackered to row,i do a ton of sets of them,isnt rows for thickness pulldowns for width a load of
> 
> bollocks?


Lower portion of the lats will be less developed without rows in your routine.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


> would heavy dbell rowing be enough to hit the lower lats then ,this exercise I find ok as it put no pressure
> 
> on my lower back,and maybe vary the row to hit diff areas of the back.


Just remember to pull into the waist and keep back arched


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kefka said:


> You will still hit your lats that way but only the end of the rep will be the lats doing the work...when the arms start extending too much the back takes less of the load...so each rep becomes 3/4 arms 1/4 back.


Couldn't disagree more if your hitting your arms for 3/4 of the movement then you don't know how to train and your mind/muscle link is garbage

Also if that was the case then bor would be useless because if done correctly upper body should be stationary

Seated row allows for more stretch if done with movement but if done without it in No way brings arms in that much


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> Couldn't disagree more if your hitting your arms for 3/4 of the movement then you don't know how to train and your mind/muscle link is garbage
> 
> Also if that was the case then bor would be useless because if done correctly upper body should be stationary
> 
> Seated row allows for more stretch if done with movement but if done without it in No way brings arms in that much


lol it has nothing to do with the mind muscle connection... its the same as doing a chin up, at the bottom of the movement when your arms are extended your lats arnt doing ****... by leaning forward when cable rowing you prolong the tension on the lats... and no bent over row isnt usless, but its only the top 1/3 of the move is where the lats get torched.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kefka said:


> lol it has nothing to do with the mind muscle connection... its the same as doing a chin up, at the bottom of the movement when your arms are extended your lats arnt doing ****... by leaning forward when cable rowing you prolong the tension on the lats... and no bent over row isnt usless, but its only the top 1/3 of the move is where the lats get torched.


I have never heard such utter rubbish obviously in my opinion the contraction of the back moves the humorous and from the start of the movement the humorous is moving

Ergo the back is working

Your entitled to your opinion as i am mine and will obviously have to agree to disagree

Ill leave you with this not the best article but at 5.30 am it will do

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa12.htm


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> I have never heard such utter rubbish obviously in my opinion the contraction of the back moves the humorous and from the start of the movement the humorous is moving
> 
> Ergo the back is working
> 
> ...


You don't seem to fully understand the function of the lats. 

http://jasonferruggia.com/the-right-way-to-do-rows/


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kefka said:


> You don't seem to fully understand the function of the lats.
> 
> http://jasonferruggia.com/the-right-way-to-do-rows/


Oh i understand very well but ill leave you to your own devices


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

str4nger said:


> I couldn't disagree more
> 
> Try a lighter weight, you need to concentrate on pulling with your back and squeezing your shoulder blades together
> 
> I would not swing as you bring in too many other body parts and lose focus on your back


This guy ^^^ has been taught properly


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> Oh i understand very well but ill leave you to your own devices


ignorance is bliss.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kefka said:


> ignorance is bliss.


Lol ok so because i disagree with you im ignorant ? Pmsl

Well my 'ignorance' has built one of the biggest backs in the uk so im happy to remain ignorant


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

kefka said:


> ignorance is bliss.


No offence but TBBs back speaks for itself, does yours?


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Therealbigbear said:


> Lol ok so because i disagree with you im ignorant ? Pmsl
> 
> Well my 'ignorance' has built one of the biggest backs in the uk so im happy to remain ignorant


Your ignorant because you seem to think the lats work by pulling the arm straight back and forward...the motion is actually an arc like motion which is why the leaning forward and backwards works, you end up pulling at an arc... there's a reason why all the pros who do cable rows do them this way... IT WORKS. And best back in the UK... deluded much?



Breda said:


> No offence but TBBs back speaks for itself, does yours?


Lots of people have great bodyparts without training them optimally, I know some guys who have great calves and don't even train them at all... genetics can make up for sub-par training in a lot of cases. Also its entirely possible hes doing other rowing movements that work the portion of the lats which will come into play when you lean forward with cable rows.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2013)

kefka said:


> You don't seem to fully understand the function of the lats.
> 
> http://jasonferruggia.com/the-right-way-to-do-rows/


Have you seen the size of this bloke?


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## kefka (Apr 22, 2013)

Jd123 said:


> Have you seen the size of this bloke?


So size = knowledge now? Want some tips from my friend with huge calves who never trains them?  Have you seen the size of the trainers the pros work with? They are nothing special, they chose them because they understand well how the body works.

If you need examples of guys who do cable rows this way and have huge wide thick backs go look at joel stubbs back or Ronnie Colemon or Arnold... the list goes on.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2013)

kefka said:


> So size = knowledge now? Want some tips from my friend with huge calves who never trains them?  Have you seen the size of the trainers the pros work with? They are nothing special, they chose them because they understand well how the body works.
> 
> If you need examples of guys who do cable rows this way and have huge wide thick backs go look at joel stubbs back or Ronnie Colemon or Arnold... the list goes on.
> 
> View attachment 133883


Well lets be honest. He is clearly doing something right.


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## Therealbigbear (Mar 5, 2013)

kefka said:


> Your ignorant because you seem to think the lats work by pulling the arm straight back and forward...the motion is actually an arc like motion which is why the leaning forward and backwards works, you end up pulling at an arc... there's a reason why all the pros who do cable rows do them this way... IT WORKS. And best back in the UK... deluded much?
> 
> Lots of people have great bodyparts without training them optimally, I know some guys who have great calves and don't even train them at all... genetics can make up for sub-par training in a lot of cases. Also its entirely possible hes doing other rowing movements that work the portion of the lats which will come into play when you lean forward with cable rows.


Ok lets get a few things straight i said one of the biggest not the biggest!

Secondly i never said the back pulls the arm straight back i said the the backs function is to retract the humorous which it does from what ever position you start in

I also disagreed with the 3/4 of the first part of the movement is biceps

If you pull from the elbow and use the forearm and hand as a hook arm activation is minimal

My point is keep your elbows in and back activation is fine throughout the movement

I agree that leaning forward increases the stretch but not leaning forward does not suddenly deativate the back if that was the case then the first part of the movement whilst leaning would activate the back one you were in the upright position according to you the back would deactivate arms would activate until the last quarter

Which is just not the case

If you need to lean forward to activate your back then your muscle control is poor simple!

Im not saying that leaning forward is ineffective im saying that by not leaning forward the majority of the movement does not become a bicep exercise

Apart from the reference you have quoted what else do you have to back this up?

If you think im deluded and full of sh1t then you are welcome to train with me anytime ! Id be really curious to see the bigman behind the mouth!

If youve built a decent physique then all credit too you as ive already said leaning forward does work but the exercise also works without as well

Now regards genetics my back was one of my weakest bodyparts it is one im definitely not genetically gifted with .

Anyway ive said my piece i get the impression that your arrogance will not allow you to ever except that there may be other ways

So on that note i bid you farewell

However the training offer stands

My name is dave crosland

I train at maloneys gym

Marsh mills

Huddersfield

Your welcome to come and educate me anytime


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Breda said:


> No offence but TBBs back speaks for itself, does yours?


This. Obviously He's doing something right


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

kefka said:


> ignorance is bliss.


TBB is far from ignorant mate believe me.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Therealbigbear said:


> Ok lets get a few things straight i said one of the biggest not the biggest!
> 
> Secondly i never said the back pulls the arm straight back i said the the backs function is to retract the humorous which it does from what ever position you start in
> 
> ...


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## LegsToday (Aug 24, 2013)

You're not doing it right... you don't pull with your arms you pull with your back

Pretend you're elbowing someone behind you and push your shoulder blades together


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## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

Is it best to sit as STILL as possible though? Will moving about cause any back problems?


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

If anyone want to check pro's out for form, then look at Ben Pakulski.

I always imagine trying to touch the floor behind me with my elbows. And ALWAYS arch your back on contraction. Your lats aren't fully contracted until your back is arched.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Pre weaken the lats with pull overs and the traps with shrugs. Then move into your rowing and pull down movements.


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