# ECG results shock



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I had an ECG a few weeks ago for my heart burn and palpatations I was getting at the time and a blood test, docs made me an appointment to go in today.

He said the ECG shows a slight enlargment of the left side of my heart, he said it can be normal in young active people, he asked again about aas use which upto now I have always said no, but told him I have actually used them for a few year today.

He's booking me in at hosp for another type of scan, can't remember what he said its called but he said it will show if this is natural and nothing to worry about or if its something else.

He alsosaid ECG's arnt 100% accurate it may be nothing, when I had it done the stickers kept coming off also (the nurse was usless) iv had a couple ECGs before that within the last year at a&e and they daid all was fine.

Anyone else on here been in the same situation.

*EDIT:*

*
RESULTS from echocardiogram, gp verdict.....this is from page 8 in this thread*

he results:

Gp said my lest side is borderline enlarged, also a slight decrease in function also a couple of slight leaky valves.

The leaky valves he said can be normal for anyone no matter what there lifestyle so isn't a concern as they are.

He wants to refer me to a specialist but needs another gp to agree to it from the results which he said won't be a problem.

So I will hear in the post when I need to go back to hosp for a heart specialist to view the results and go from there.

Also something in my blood results cam back as high in my kidneys which I can't remember the name began with 'c' or 'k' he said can be from aas use or from having more muscle bulk, he believes that's nothing to worry about from my musclar size,

All other bloods are fine. And no other heart issues apart from the above.

my other threads on this:

1st update http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/244370-my-update-heart-result.html

2nd update: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/249025-my-heart-update2.html


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

So no more stims for me I think, caffine, clen, eca, coke , mkat,

Not that I bother with class As now but I did a in my younger days.

Also sticking to low-mod cardio, I think will be best?

Should I drop equipose also? Iv been on 1g for a while now.


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## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

Hopefully the next results will be fine. Good luck mate


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## andymc88 (Aug 18, 2011)

A no a lad who used to take huge doses of equipoise like an he ha a heart of a 80year at 28 bt he used to drink loads take any amount of sniff n other stuff on top, bt the ECG machines give an reading usually at the top bt it's not always 100% but I no the machine I use if the R lead which is placed on the right wrist isn't connected correctly it'll give a false reading also if ur sweaty n the pads don't stick well, what did ur doc say about your bloods? Hope your everything is ok and if any thing is up hope it's nothing to serious


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

How old are you?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeh the pads kept coming off she had to re-do the test a few times, the left and right wrist kept creeping off, I was 30yr old 3weeks ago.

Think I will drop eq.

Also he said bloods were fine.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Found this so my next test should show if its from bp or training, or if the ECG was wrong. Hope it comes back the ECG was wrong, 1 less thing to stress about.

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/askdoctor/lvh.aspx


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

andymc88 said:


> A no a lad who used to take huge doses of equipoise like an he ha a heart of a 80year at 28 bt he used to drink loads take any amount of sniff n other stuff on top, bt the ECG machines give an reading usually at the top bt it's not always 100% but I no the machine I use if the R lead which is placed on the right wrist isn't connected correctly it'll give a false reading also if ur sweaty n the pads don't stick well, what did ur doc say about your bloods? Hope your everything is ok and if any thing is up hope it's nothing to serious


How long has he had is? Is he's still healthy or is he fukd?


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## Shrugga (Jun 19, 2013)

Hope it all turns out ok mate.

I wouldnt mind having an ECG myself just for peace of mind, Would my GP just book me in for one even though i have no symptoms, and i'm only 23?

Also out of interest what were your previous ECG scans for?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Shrugga said:


> Hope it all turns out ok mate.
> 
> I wouldnt mind having an ECG myself just for peace of mind, Would my GP just book me in for one even though i have no symptoms, and i'm only 23?
> 
> Also out of interest what were your previous ECG scans for?


I went to A&E twice because I felt my bp was too high I could feel my pulse in my head, found out it was the dbol it stopped as soon as I stopped it,

Then next time was bad plapatations, they were a few weeks to a month apart, bloods and ECG's all came back fine,

About 3month later was this ECG at the docs,

I'm sure my heart won't grow in the 3month between ECGs? Surly it would have been picked up at the hosp on the other two?

And no your gp will only give you 1 if you tell him you have symptoms


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

If its from training then I just need to keep my heart rate down.

If its from bp then I need to sort that out.

So I think it should be ok even if it does come back the ECG is correct, just a wake up call to monitor myself better..


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

i'd be truthful about your AAS use with any of the consultants you see , it may mean stopping any AAS use but at the end of the day your heart is a pretty useful piece of kit to have working correctly 

hope everything turns out ok, and get used to decaff coffee etc -nescafe original decaff tastes no different to the normal stuff to me (and i tried a few decaff brands)- then again my tastebuds are shot due to 25 years of curry abuse


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

pugster said:


> i'd be truthful about your AAS use with any of the consultants you see , it may mean stopping any AAS use but at the end of the day your heart is a pretty useful piece of kit to have working correctly
> 
> hope everything turns out ok, and get used to decaff coffee etc -nescafe original decaff tastes no different to the normal stuff to me (and i tried a few decaff brands)- then again my tastebuds are shot due to 25 years of curry abuse


Yeh im defo telling the hosp I'm using, not going to lie over this and get a false diagnosis if it is enlarged, the gp said it was only slight so I doubt its a death sentance just yet. Just gota wait a few weeks for my oppointment, its going to DRAG!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Also all my bloods came back fine, hemo rbc cholesterol etc etc all normal.


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## chiqui (Oct 28, 2009)

Keep us posted on ur tests bro an gud luck to ya hope all goes well for ya.

Ive always been truthful about my aas use.to the point wher my gp had to google wat deca was!!lol

Also recently had surgery on broken finger an was complicatioms during surgery due to soft bones apparently due to steroid use lmao they will easily blame amy issues on steroids.

Also puttin it out there that steroids enhance calcium deposits an bone density!confused.com lol


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

I regularly get checked by a cardiologist in London as my dad has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It's a hereditary disease.

Initially I had ECGs done for the same reason as you. I had to wear a basic monitor for 24 hours at one point. When one of my ECGs came back abnormal I was referred and subsequently had an MRI done. The MRI showed no scarring trend common to HCM but did display a fair amount of enlargement and thickening of the left ventricle.

Essentially my left ventricle is at the upper limit of thickness (12mm I believe). After this the heart enlarges to compensate but can become inefficient in doing so.

My palpitations were often blood pressed related however only occurred when I was either very hot, stressed / tired, dehydrated or on stims.

You have to be honest with a consultant if you get referred as you were already. Mine is all off record but he knows what I use. He treats a number of bodybuilders and knows the drugs fairly well. What I run is ok for now.

It is often diagnosed as athletic heart. If you weight train your heart is used to pumping differently to someone who runs for example. It's of no concern until you pass the limits. Ask for a referral to be sure.

It was recommend to me that at some point within a year I come off and don't train for 6 weeks. I'd get an ECG prior to doing so and an ECG after 6 weeks. If it shows 1mm decrease in thickness then athletic heart is confirmed. If no decrease then there may be other causes for the enlargement and thickening.

Hope that helps.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bensif said:


> I regularly get checked by a cardiologist in London as my dad has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. It's a hereditary disease.
> 
> Initially I had ECGs done for the same reason as you. I had to wear a basic monitor for 24 hours at one point. When one of my ECGs came back abnormal I was referred and subsequently had an MRI done. The MRI showed no scarring trend common to HCM but did display a fair amount of enlargement and thickening of the left ventricle.
> 
> ...


Great post thanks dude, would this decrease with a 6week lay off occur while on trt also?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Great post thanks dude, would this decrease with a 6week lay off occur while on trt also?


No worries. If a true TRT dose then yes it should. But as soon as you start training again it is likely to increase again. The heart is a muscle after all.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bensif said:


> No worries. If a true TRT dose then yes it should. But as soon as you start training again it is likely to increase again. The heart is a muscle after all.


Yeh I guess, cheers dude, so do u still cycle ok and if yours increasing or stable?

Does it change the cycles you run knowing you have this?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

stone14 said:


> Yeh I guess, cheers dude, so do u still cycle ok and if yours increasing or stable?
> 
> Does it change the cycles you run knowing you have this?


And yes when I trt its proper trt, maybe some slin ontop, does slin effect its growth?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Controling how high your HR goes should help also shouldn't it?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

She should have ensured proper skin contact with the electrodes, esp on a hot day.

Lay off all stims & if it was me, then no aas.

@TECH


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

My LA was significantly enlarged when I was in permanent AF.Now that would appear to be the same on an ecg ,as Athletes Heart.It clearly isnt the same.The cardiologist, would use experience to detect the underlying cause.Ive had hundreds of ecgs.If they are not wired right, then it wont give a reading.So, it has a failsafe.its unlikely to be a "bad" reading due to incompetence.

Bodybuilders dont do enough to cause athletes heart.Its the domain of long distance athletes.

Id bet a penny to a pound your LA is enlarged due to AAS.There are two many examples of this around, for it not to be likely.Ive two mates with exactly the same diagnosis.

Also with an enlarged LA your more open to develop AF.(as I did)also high bp, is primer for AF.Enlarged LA,high BP, exercise, alcohol and caffeine.All primers for AF.It aint fun, 3 procedures and 11 years and im in good health.LA returned to normal within 6 weeks.However, the cause was not AAS but working harder, to deal with a lower ejection fraction caused by AF.

FFS. See a top cardiologist I can recommend 3/4) get off AAS, and manage your BP.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

What's AF?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Also @essexboy, you say a 6week lay off made your left side return to normal? So would the odd 6weeks lay off training taking it easy a 1-2 times per year keep it ion check?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

What procedures have you had? Also do you use aas?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Yeh I guess, cheers dude, so do u still cycle ok and if yours increasing or stable?
> 
> Does it change the cycles you run knowing you have this?


Mine is currently stable since a checkup in April. Am due again soon.

It hasn't changed anything I have run yet. My consultant is fairly understanding, iv not been off since September last year, he knows this. If we get any warnings that suggest its worsening I will back right off, as for now I'm full steam ahead.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bensif said:


> Mine is currently stable since a checkup in April. Am due again soon.
> 
> It hasn't changed anything I have run yet. My consultant is fairly understanding, iv not been off since September last year, he knows this. If we get any warnings that suggest its worsening I will back right off, as for now I'm full steam ahead.


I'm thinking, is this 6weeks lay off that people get adviced to take off is this a common test a cardiologist(spelling) does to see if its aas induced?

If so would a 6week fast ester cycle be a better option with 6weeks off time?

Iv been on about close to 20weeks now so maybe its just down to that, a 12week cruise is coming up with 5x5 or tokars 5-3 routine which is pritty layed back since its more cns training longer rest periods shorted workouts as low as 20mins and a max of 30-45min if I'm lucky. etc etc,

I doubt I will have to come off aas, its more a case of tailoring my routines and use till this clears up I think.

I'm glad in away itd been picked up now and not in years time when its the size of a melon lol


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2013)

id defo drop the boldenone,you don't want rbc raised on top of all this mate.you only have 1 heart.you ruin it and its game over.jus saying


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> What procedures have you had? Also do you use aas?


My LA returned to normal, because NSR was restored.Its common for the whole heart to enlarge when in permanent AF, as it has to work harder to cope with a failing Ejection Fraction.The heart literally wears out, or as is known as heart failure.

Ive had three catheter ablations over 12 years .(Last one 2006) I had a little blip a few months back ,which ironically disappeared 2 days after Id seen My Cardiologist (Simon Sporton, at London Bridge Hos.) gave me the full all clear, "text book" BP and ecg,despite a fair bit of scar tissue on my LA.No I dont use AAS.There are many reasons as to why not.The incidence of heart issues that seem apparent is the main issue for me.

Sorry missed the first question! AF (Atrial Fibrillation) is a chaotic firing of the hearts electrical system, which originates (almost exclusively) in the LA.Good luck fella.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Controling how high your HR goes should help also shouldn't it?


No not really.Any thickening/enlargement, is likely caused by constant high HR high EJ not occasional spikes.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

stone14 said:


> I'm thinking, is this 6weeks lay off that people get adviced to take off is this a common test a cardiologist(spelling) does to see if its aas induced?
> 
> If so would a 6week fast ester cycle be a better option with 6weeks off time?
> 
> ...


It's less the AAS and more weight training. The break includes no gym. AAS can accelerate the enlargement and growth as they affect all muscle tissue, but the enlargement / thickening would occur regardless.

The break is to confirm suspicions that it is from weight training or exercise and not permanent.

Keep getting blood work done if you use EQ though. My cardiologist knows I use it and even though my values are raised they are not high enough to cause concern. And as of late my BP has improved. I put that down to a little more cardio, much better diet and altered training. I'm using 1.2g of EQ.

Basically keep an eye on it and get a good consultant.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

All the best mate sad to hear ! Let us no how it all goes


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeh think I will drop the eq dose I'm on 1g ew, I'm at the end of the vial so just won't bother opening the new 1 iv only a few weeks of my cycle left.

I do believe it will be the aas+training mix causing it, so a break from both every now and again should sort it out, say 6weeks off training during a trt period every 6month?

I will probably get requested for frequent heart tests so I will see how it progressing etc


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

The more I'm hearing about it the less concerned I'm getting tbh aslong as it is aas+training induced which I believe it will be, its not permanant


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

shouldnt have opened this thread! not like enough to worry about already with my paranoia! :whistling:

sorry to hear the news bud, im sure you will have it all cleared up asap and good luck!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Anyone got any info on these drugs is there any plans to test or use on humans yet?

They protect the hear from enlarging while on heavy aas use, not sure if its just rat tested atm.

Dexrazoxane,

Trimetazidine,

http://www.ergo-log.com/cardiodrugs.html


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## andymc88 (Aug 18, 2011)

stone14 said:


> How long has he had is? Is he's still healthy or is he fukd?


I don't no all I no is he wouldn't train if he wasn't cycling bt the docs have told him to stop cycling so he's not trained for a few years, still see him out on the p!ss and off his nut so don't think he cares tbh,

Hope your problem gets sorted n nothing bad comes of it


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Stone 14

There's this I found, the first sentence is positive, don't read the rest, it's waffle & methods:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22842854

Quite a few studies about it & they appear to support its use.

COQ10 is ofc very Cardio-protective.

My personal opinions only & not Medical advice.


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## lxm (Jul 26, 2011)

fingers, thumbs & toes crossed for you 14.


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## scorpio_biker (Apr 16, 2008)

Hi,

Just popped in to say I've also been diagnosed with an enlarged left side of the heart, and I've never taken steroids. Mine either comes from years of playing sport (football, rugby, hockey) or my mild arrhythmia (maybe both). I got told in passing by my GP so it can't be that bad.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm going to keep using as I am till my next test, don't want to change anything before geting my next test,

If I stop now it may effect my next test in a few weeks and possibly not show,

So I'm going to keep everything the same, then if its positive then I can adjust from there and adleast it will be on record and be monitored better.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

scorpio_biker said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just popped in to say I've also been diagnosed with an enlarged left side of the heart, and I've never taken steroids. Mine either comes from years of playing sport (football, rugby, hockey) or my mild arrhythmia (maybe both). I got told in passing by my GP so it can't be that bad.


I would ask/insist your GP that he/she refers you to Cardiology & get a proper ECG done. Then you know exactly what's going on, rather than a 'passing comment'.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

latblaster said:


> I would ask/insist your GP that he/she refers you to Cardiology & get a proper ECG done. Then you know exactly what's going on, rather than a 'passing comment'.


"Is that all doctor?"

"Yes you can go now, ah and by the way, your hearts massive, close the door thanks"


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

scorpio_biker said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just popped in to say I've also been diagnosed with an enlarged left side of the heart, and I've never taken steroids. Mine either comes from years of playing sport (football, rugby, hockey) or my mild arrhythmia (maybe both). I got told in passing by my GP so it can't be that bad.


I would ask/insist your GP that he/she refers you to Cardiology & get a proper ECG done. Then you know exactly what's going on, rather than a 'passing comment'.


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## scorpio_biker (Apr 16, 2008)

latblaster said:


> I would ask/insist your GP that he/she refers you to Cardiology & get a proper ECG done. Then you know exactly what's going on, rather than a 'passing comment'.


Thanks for your comments, I was perhaps a little more laid back with my GP's comment than I should have been. It came from a report from an A&E department following a diagnosis of pleurisy, I had an ECG at the time which was absolutely fine.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> The more I'm hearing about it the less concerned I'm getting tbh aslong as it is aas+training induced which I believe it will be, its not permanant


You mentioned palpitations. How long do they occur for, and can you feel a "fluttering" in your chest,and did you check your pulse when it happened, and if so what did you notice?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

latblaster said:


> @Stone 14
> 
> There's this I found, the first sentence is positive, don't read the rest, it's waffle & methods:
> 
> ...


Ive used COQ10 for years.Whether or not it helps maintain NSR, im not sure.I asked my cardiologist about this few months back.His response was."Theres a technical term for any substance, that is not a recognised Drug, that supposedly helps the heart,. All Bo.llocks"


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

essexboy said:


> You mentioned palpitations. How long do they occur for, and can you feel a "fluttering" in your chest,and did you check your pulse when it happened, and if so what did you notice?


Felt like a spasm twitching and moving around etc, and I tried to check pulse but couldn't concentrate on it with the palps kicking off.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Felt like a spasm twitching and moving around etc, and I tried to check pulse but couldn't concentrate on it with the palps kicking off.


Duration? Was it in your chest, or top of abdomen, any other symtoms, fear, anxiousness?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

essexboy said:


> Duration? Was it in your chest, or top of abdomen, any other symtoms, fear, anxiousness?


 A couple times were just a few seconds but seemed to be eod so frequent.

Once was after gulping down a mass gain shake which I was told that was more likely a solar plexous spasm.

They have all gone now iv started taking medication for acid reflux.

The acid reflux and plaps were the reason the doc wanted to give me an ECG and bloods.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

essexboy said:


> Ive used COQ10 for years.Whether or not it helps maintain NSR, im not sure.I asked my cardiologist about this few months back.His response was."Theres a technical term for any substance, that is not a recognised Drug, that supposedly helps the heart,. All Bo.llocks"


He needs to read more then, & not be stuck with his Med School indoctrination:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23527797

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23477030

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23221577

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22465806

CONCLUSION:

CoQ(10) levels are low in human subjects with ROSC after cardiac arrest as compared to healthy controls. CoQ(10) levels were lower in those who died, as well as in those with a poor neurologic outcome.

And lastly....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21790970

I should imagine he thinks that anything not in the MIMS is the latter day equivalent to "slaughtering lambs at dawn":lol:


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Were is best to buy this coq10? So its a long term thing everyone should take?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> Controling how high your HR goes should help also shouldn't it?


It's about how quickly it gets there mate, not how high it goes.

As you know i have had loads of ECG's loads of echoe's and CT scans and spoken to many cardiologists.

Your echo will tell wether your LVH is mild, moderate or severe, an ECG can really only tell that you have LVH.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> A couple times were just a few seconds but seemed to be eod so frequent.
> 
> Once was after gulping down a mass gain shake which I was told that was more likely a solar plexous spasm.
> 
> ...


the episode after the shake is exactly the same as one of my episodes that triggered AF.A cold Mcdonalds shake sent me into AF for an hour or so.YOU NEED a 24 hour holter fitted.Tell your doctor, or better still see a private cardiologist.Id bet you may have onset of AF.The signs are very familiar.If you get palps again, check your pulse to see if it becomes irregular.Dont worry about rate, its rythm that matters.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Were is best to buy this coq10? So its a long term thing everyone should take?


Holland and Baretts


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

According to this not all coQw0 supps ar ecreated the same way meaning some are useless, so how can you tell which 1 to use?

http://www.coq10foods.com/


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> It's about how quickly it gets there mate, not how high it goes.
> 
> As you know i have had loads of ECG's loads of echoe's and CT scans and spoken to many cardiologists.
> 
> Your echo will tell wether your LVH is mild, moderate or severe, an ECG can really only tell that you have LVH.


What is your condition mate? Yeh iv gota wait a few weeks to see a specialist, I can't remember then name of the test my doc mensioned I would get but I'm sure its the right one?

Iv never had high bp problems till this year so it could well be the sudden change that caused it as you say.

Hopefully its a quick fix and tempo lay off.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

essexboy said:


> the episode after the shake is exactly the same as one of my episodes that triggered AF.A cold Mcdonalds shake sent me into AF for an hour or so.YOU NEED a 24 hour holter fitted.Tell your doctor, or better still see a private cardiologist.Id bet you may have onset of AF.The signs are very familiar.If you get palps again, check your pulse to see if it becomes irregular.Dont worry about rate, its rythm that matters.


Will this test at hosp also bring this AF up if its there?

Can't afford private has to be nhs for me.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Also I havnt had any palps since my acid meds have got that under control, its non existant on them, and iv gulps a fare few shakes down since.

A 24hr monitor won't show anything if there not regular will they?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Is AF serious do you still run aas ok?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> What is your condition mate? Yeh iv gota wait a few weeks to see a specialist, I can't remember then name of the test my doc mensioned I would get but I'm sure its the right one?
> 
> Iv never had high bp problems till this year so it could well be the sudden change that caused it as you say.
> 
> Hopefully its a quick fix and tempo lay off.


Me,Im brand new.My AF was triggered by booze initially.Then the milkshake, then gulping down a pint of water,etc.Every time it settled down to NSR.Then it didnt.I had 3 cardioversions, which stops and restarts your heart.They never last.There is an area of your heart which is creating these rogue signals.The drugs, make you feel like ****.If you think AAS have bad sides, try Amioderone! You get to the point where you dont want to carry on.

my heart was permanently in AF .I felt ok, side effect is low BP, as you Ef (pumping ability) is down by about 20% However, it can lead to heart failure and Stroke risk is very high, so they put you on Wharfrin.

The only permanent solution is ablation.I was no 7 in the world to have it done in 2001.It lasted 6 months as they missed a bit.Then some of the "burns" healed up ,and it returned.Last one was 100% sucessful, 7 years ago.Im 50 ,and can tear through 20 rep squats.till im a mess on the floor.My bp and ecgs are "text book" I get ocassional benign Palps, mainly due to the scar tissue around my LV.You soon realise to live with them.

AF may come and go.However, it rarely leaves permanently, and it begets itself.

If it turns out you have AF, dont worry it wont kill you.You will have to realise that one day your gonna be lying on your back ,awake with probes in your groin,for 8 hours but it aint that bad, the drugs are amazing!you will have to put the brakes on your AAS use.An enlarged LA, stretches the fascia, along with high BP and stims, is the perfect enviroment for AF to flourish.Just because they ablate one area, doesnt mean it might not begin elsewhere.You have a heart that is sensitive, and you have to take care of it.

After the 2nd ablatoin, i trained and fought at York Hall in a charity event.So, even though my heart is "damaged" (by the scars,) it didnt limit me too much.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Will this test at hosp also bring this AF up if its there?
> 
> Can't afford private has to be nhs for me.


The holter will pick up anything.You wear it, and if you have an episode press a button, to record it.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Will this test at hosp also bring this AF up if its there?
> 
> Can't afford private has to be nhs for me.


About £200 for a private consultation.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Is AF serious do you still run aas ok?


See last post............I dont use them.There is life out there without em!


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Will this test at hosp also bring this AF up if its there?
> 
> Can't afford private has to be nhs for me.


An ecg will not show AF, unless you have an episode, whilst having the ecg.That is why you need a 24 hour holter.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

essexboy said:


> There is life out there without em!


I don't know about that lol, they have made a huge positive impact on my life, I couldn't handle 'skinny' again.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

So AF isn't aas+training induced, its just something you can get unfortunatly if its to do with the hearts electro signals?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> So AF isn't aas+training induced, its just something you can get unfortunatly if its to do with the hearts electro signals?


If you have the underlying genetic trait.Then there are an infiniate amount of triggers.Its quite common in distance athletes.I doubt lifting weights would be a significant factor.We dont train long enough or spike our HR for long enough.AAS do impact on the heart.Enlarged LA, is a primer for AF.(Mice dont get AF.Race horses do) If it turns out you have it.IMHO,It was likely primed by AAS.which cause your LA to enlarge, in turn causing AF.It could have been booze, or cocaine.It just happend to be AAS.All purely speculative though.it really doesnt matter what causes it.Its how you learn to live with it.


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

Bro, good luck with the diagnosis got my fingers crossed for ya. Keep us updated!!


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Eq thickens your blood so defo come off that for now? Maybe try thin it a bit?

Defo add in some cardio aswell. It's important to keep your heart healthy obviously and to let the blood through more freely. Cardio will obviously help this circulate better


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mark2021 said:


> Eq thickens your blood so defo come off that for now? Maybe try thin it a bit?
> 
> Defo add in some cardio aswell. It's important to keep your heart healthy obviously and to let the blood through more freely. Cardio will obviously help this circulate better


Yeh my eq vial only has a dribble left in it so stopping that, going to keep the test+win+tren going till my test then drop to trt dose, I planned on coming off in a few weeks anyway so its right on time. And if I need to have 6weeks off training then so be it, its going to be torture that tho, training is my life, adleast ill have more time to get through my IT course for a few weeks lol.

Tbh I don't even think my aas use or training is ott its moderate imo, I don't how the heavy user guys who hammer aas and training till they drop get away with it if I have got it, just unlucky genetics prone to it I would guess.....


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I will defo be trying to tailor my use around any problem that comes up, I can't see myself stopping aas has made too much positive impact on my life and how I feel about myself to stop, my ex used to say to me "if I had to make you choose roids & the gym or me you would choose roids & the gym wouldn't you?" I always just used to laff, but she new that laff was basicly a "yes" lol.

I know it sounds abit ott for this thread but I'd rather die happy with myself and decisions young, then old and miserable with the life iv lead.

But as I say I do believe it is aas induced so hopefully its a quick fix, then monitored from there shorter cycles better moderate level cardio, no more prolonged giving my HR 160bpm aslong as possible anymore.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

What dosages are you on ATM?

Iv just dropped to a cruise. Not actually injected yet but will do 200mg per week I think or 300mg e10 days

We just need to drop it and give our bodies a break. More so yourself for health reasons, I hope everything is fine though and you can continue to train and use gear with no future problems.

Just obviously now you need to keep an eye on things


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I had 6-7month off on 250mg e10d test'e, then ran this from about feb time this year:

14week: (12weekbulk+2week dnp cut)

750mg test e ew,

750mg deca ew (dropped to 500mg from week5 the dropped again to 250mg for the last couple weeks due to deca dick),

1000mg eq ew,

50mg dbol ed (dropped after a few days when bp was going mad),

Followed by:

10weeks lean bulk (currently at about week7):

300mg teste ew,

500mg trene ew,

200mg maste ew,

1000mg eq ew,

100mg win ed,

1rip pre wo x3ew (100mg of each test'p/ tren'ac/ mast'p)

1000iu hcg ew,

25mg t3 ed 2on 2off.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> What is your condition mate? Yeh iv gota wait a few weeks to see a specialist, I can't remember then name of the test my doc mensioned I would get but I'm sure its the right one?
> 
> Iv never had high bp problems till this year so it could well be the sudden change that caused it as you say.
> 
> Hopefully its a quick fix and tempo lay off.


I had a massive heart attack in april.

I was diagnosed with moderate LVH 2 years ago, it had at the time of my heart attack progressed to severe LVH, however this wasn;t the cause of my heart attack.

LVH is usually only a problem when you get into your 60's-70's because your heart, like all muscles become a little saggy and then you could get a blood clot causing a fatal heart attack.

You will get an echo at the hospital, this will tell the extent of the LVH and the general condition of your heart, if there are any issues you may have a CT scan or an MRI, if anything is untoward you may then be given an angiogram.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> I had a massive heart attack in april.
> 
> I was diagnosed with moderate LVH 2 years ago, it had at the time of my heart attack progressed to severe LVH, however this wasn;t the cause of my heart attack.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks for the info mate, so its nothing to worry about till around that age, so its a good think its been picked up now, do you still run aas ok with this condition?

Iv just took 3 bp readings this morning upon waking up if this is anything to go by:

A) 154/72 HR 71

B) 148/70 HR 67

C) 142/68 HR 68

When I was on dbol a few month ago how ever I'm sure it was something like 180/70 HR 80-95,

I was only on the dbol a few days till I realised that was the cause of my head feeling like it was going to pop after half a working set.

I'm probably in the best condition for my weight ever this year so I'm happy with my gains, but its been the werst year form side effects:

bp,

palps,

severe heart burn,

Now this LVH scare.

Iv had 6month off before this so its not like I'm going ott with the whole thing.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> I had a massive heart attack in april.
> 
> I was diagnosed with moderate LVH 2 years ago, it had at the time of my heart attack progressed to severe LVH, however this wasn;t the cause of my heart attack.
> 
> ...


What action have you took to get your LVH from severe to mod?

And are you still working at getting it lower or?

Also is yours aas iduced?

Thanks


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Just an update iv received my letter today from the hosp and there givining me an exho cardiograms on the 27th july 1pm and will take aprox 30mins.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> What action have you took to get your LVH from severe to mod?
> 
> And are you still working at getting it lower or?
> 
> ...


It went from mod to severe in less than 2 years.

Yes AAS induced, i havent used anything since the heart attack and i have a review in september to see how my heart is repairing and if the LVH has reduced.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> It went from mod to severe in less than 2 years.
> 
> Yes AAS induced, i havent used anything since the heart attack and i have a review in september to see how my heart is repairing and if the LVH has reduced.


Ah ryt cool hope its sorted in sept. How long u been off now then?

A guy on a usa forum told me his was severe and had 10month off aas+training for it to be back in the normal range.

Also were your cycle big or training intense?

Or was it a mix of high bp also?

I'm shocked if mine has grown past normal range because iv had 6month off before this 20weeker and its not been ott in aas use or training. I will know the crack on the 27th july tho


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> Ah ryt cool hope its sorted in sept. How long u been off now then?
> 
> A guy on a usa forum told me his was severe and had 10month off aas+training for it to be back in the normal range.
> 
> ...


About 12wks last shot was around 10th april.

Never used large amounts but i never came off for over 10 years, i just did B&C. Training was never silly, i did enough to grow and never overtrained.

High BP and polycythemia played their part.

Good luck for when the results come back, i'm sure it will be good news though.


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> I had an ECG a few weeks ago for my heart burn and palpatations I was getting at the time and a blood test, docs made me an appointment to go in today.
> 
> He said the ECG shows a slight enlargment of the left side of my heart, he said it can be normal in young active people, he asked again about aas use which upto now I have always said no, but told him I have actually used them for a few year today.
> 
> ...


I had exactly the same thing mate, I got diagnosed with a right bundle block and an S1 S2 S3 pattern (hypertrophy of the heart) I'm due to go in for an ultrasound (echocardiogram) tomorrow at 9. My advise is drop whatever your on until it's sorted, upon lowering my test by half, dropping deca and dropping superdrol mine have completely gone.


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## Chris86 (Oct 17, 2011)

good luck man hope every thing comes back ok , i had heart problems from 13 untill i was 21 i know how much of a worry it an be


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> About 12wks last shot was around 10th april.
> 
> Never used large amounts but i never came off for over 10 years, i just did B&C. Training was never silly, i did enough to grow and never overtrained.
> 
> ...


Same here iv b&c'd since feb 2011 since I injured my back and needed surgery:

I trt'd it from feb 2011-4ept2011 then ran a short 4weekwr of 100mg test'p+50mg inj win eod.

Cruised again till march 2012 ran 12week bulk 4week dnp, 6week lean bulk this 6weeker was over 4g tho tren,primo,eq,test,mast,win,

just a treat I guess since iv had a long lay off and wanted back to were I was, but I progresses further than iv ever been before.

Then a 6month trt cruise till feb 2013 and iv ran

12week bulk test/deca/dbol/eq.

2week dnp,t3, clen,

10week lean bulk test,tren,mast,win,eq

I'm about week8 of this lean bulk, iv dropped the eq and tren and just running on:

300mg test'e ew

250mg deca (just to use up an already opened vial, think there's about 4ml in there) ew

100mg triumph var ed

50mg tren suspension pre wo.

So nothing crazy realy, I'll be shocked if it comes back enlarged but the doc did twist his face wen he said 'slight enlargement' so I'm guessing if anything its boarder like barely over the top. Hopefully a few weeks lay off ill be back in normal range and can carry on.

Iv just bought 10g primo to homebrew and use aswell but think I will leave it till next year and just run test/deca,drol after my 12week cruise or if I need longer off for this LVH I will wait till my ticker is sorted.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

TJ_ said:


> I had exactly the same thing mate, I got diagnosed with a right bundle block and an S1 S2 S3 pattern (hypertrophy of the heart) I'm due to go in for an ultrasound (echocardiogram) tomorrow at 9. My advise is drop whatever your on until it's sorted, upon lowering my test by half, dropping deca and dropping superdrol mine have completely gone.


Ah ryt cool mate, can you let me no the result wen you get it, its good hearing from people in a similar situation. Since yours has gone do you now cycle the same way or have you changed anything in what you use or how you train permanently?

1 guy told me that it can be from not doing enough cardio also, with weight training being anearobic on the heart making it tighten up and grow and aerobic can help stretch it out so the 2 effects can make any growth more natural and cause no problems,

Only time iv ever done cardio I'd last summer and this summer and when I do I hammer it so maybe iv just pushed it too much in too little time, I was getting palps when my HR was geting up to 160+bpm which is were I wanted it for max cv effects.

So I think when its sorted I am defo going to add in cv x3 ew mod cv hr 120-140bpm.

Also atm I don't realy want to change anything atm for It to improve before my scan then get a negative reading because then I will never know if the eca was a faulse reading (doc said there not 100% plus the stickers kept dropping off)

So I'd rather get a positive reading ast hosp then drop the aas and change from there, then the problem is on record and can be monitored better, I'm sure I will get more checkups on it when its on record do you not??


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Ah ryt cool mate, can you let me no the result wen you get it, its good hearing from people in a similar situation. Since yours has gone do you now cycle the same way or have you changed anything in what you use or how you train permanently?
> 
> 1 guy told me that it can be from not doing enough cardio also, with weight training being anearobic on the heart making it tighten up and grow and aerobic can help stretch it out so the 2 effects can make any growth more natural and cause no problems,
> 
> ...


I'd never go back on deca or superdrol, I listen to my body and having palps/heart flutters to me says your heart is under stress, is it really worth the risk? On a lighter note, I'd like to point out that the doctor told me the ECG can pick up conditions like this on accident. This can happen simply because our physiques are a lot more muscular than the average person and the electric current has more muscle tissue to go through giving incorrect readings. However, you won't know until the echocardiogram and to continue on your cycle until you know what's what in my opinion is very foolish. Listen to ur body bro, at least lighten the dose.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

TJ_ said:


> I'd never go back on deca or superdrol, I listen to my body and having palps/heart flutters to me says your heart is under stress, is it really worth the risk? On a lighter note, I'd like to point out that the doctor told me the ECG can pick up conditions like this on accident. This can happen simply because our physiques are a lot more muscular than the average person and the electric current has more muscle tissue to go through giving incorrect readings. However, you won't know until the echocardiogram and to continue on your cycle until you know what's what in my opinion is very foolish. Listen to ur body bro, at least lighten the dose.


Yeh iv dropped the doses iv dropped my 1000mg eq, 500mg tren'e 300mg test'p, 300mg mast'p,

So I'm only on:

300mg test'e ew

200mg mast'e ew

250mg deca ew (swapped 500mg tren for this dose deca to just use the last of the vial up)

50mg tren susp x3 ew pre-wo

100mg var ed


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Also iv read deca can cause LVH growth on another forum


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Also iv read deca can cause LVH growth on another forum


It accelerates the growth but isn't solely responsible. Atleast that's what my cardiologist told me. Have you had any news yet?


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Yeh iv dropped the doses iv dropped my 1000mg eq, 500mg tren'e 300mg test'p, 300mg mast'p,
> 
> So I'm only on:
> 
> ...


I'd at least drop the 19 nor compounds like tren/deca until your ultrasound results. All I had was a right brand bundle block which is fairly common, however I am still not satisfied that that's all, but you've got to trust doctors opinions I guess. Good luck with yours mate.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bensif said:


> It accelerates the growth but isn't solely responsible. Atleast that's what my cardiologist told me. Have you had any news yet?


Got an appointment for the 27th july 1pm for the scan dude


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

update:

has scan last Friday, he said my GP should have the results on Monday so ring for an appointment from Tuesday onwards, iv rang up today there are no appointments but I am in at 2.40pm tomorrow.

also the lass on the phone said there is a note on the system to tell her to ring me today to make an appointment, do you think this means something has come up?


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

stone14 said:


> update:
> 
> has scan last Friday, he said my GP should have the results on Monday so ring for an appointment from Tuesday onwards, iv rang up today there are no appointments but I am in at 2.40pm tomorrow.
> 
> also the lass on the phone said there is a note on the system to tell her to ring me today to make an appointment, do you think this means something has come up?


Might not mean anything really, have had that happen a few times when they call you that you need to come in and see the doctor. I think they do this to make sure you are followed up. It could mean anything bro, don't stress yet!


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> update:
> 
> has scan last Friday, he said my GP should have the results on Monday so ring for an appointment from Tuesday onwards, iv rang up today there are no appointments but I am in at 2.40pm tomorrow.
> 
> also the lass on the phone said there is a note on the system to tell her to ring me today to make an appointment, do you think this means something has come up?


What the hell and u had an echo? Didn't u ask while u was there? :confused1:


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

just a follow up..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

TJ_ said:


> What the hell and u had an echo? Didn't u ask while u was there? :confused1:


Yeh an echo at hosp by a cardiologist he said he would check the scan later then post results to my GP and to see him about it.


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Yeh an echo at hosp by a cardiologist he said he would check the scan later then post results to my GP and to see him about it.


eh??? When I had mine they put some gel on me and some mechanical thing which was sort of like what they use for a baby scan on a pregnant woman, my heart was on a big screen and the woman went through it all with me, telling me what was what etc, also told me there and then apart from a IRBBB which is fairly common I had nothing to worry about. I don't know how they could 'check the scan later' when they pysically check it whilst ur there?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeh that's what I had could see my heart and the valves etc flapping about like a baby monitor ultrasound. He took recordings of section by section of my heart and different angles around my rib cage and the different sounds of my heart etc, said je would review the results later then sent me on my way, said to see my GP about it....


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

TJ_ said:


> eh??? When I had mine they put some gel on me and some mechanical thing which was sort of like what they use for a baby scan on a pregnant woman, my heart was on a big screen and the woman went through it all with me, telling me what was what etc, also told me there and then apart from a IRBBB which is fairly common I had nothing to worry about. I don't know how they could 'check the scan later' when they pysically check it whilst ur there?


I am almost certain they take snapshots of different things while doing the scan. They have a pretty good idea right on the spot if something is up or not. But I had the same as stone14, he did the scan and told me he would write up the report or sometimes they get the doctor to go through the images and write the report. Depends who did it, when I had my liver ultrasound a nurse did it, took pictures and said she can't comment and that a doctor will need to asses the images and write the report.

Basically what I think is happening the doctor got the report and he wants you to come in to go through the results. This does not mean necessarily that it has been a bad outcome. Just he needs to see you and give you the results. I got a call once that I need to come after they got the results at the GP. I was ****ting bricks for a couple days. I get in there and the doctor goes everything came back fine. FFS

Got a feeling you will be alright!


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## warsteiner (Jul 15, 2013)

They can use the echo scan to measure organs and make sure they aren't enlarged. I had this done as part of a medical and the Dr was measuring my kidneys, heart, etc. and making sure the measurements were all ok. I would hope they can tell (roughly) just by looking at the scan then nothing is massively wrong so, hopefully, once you see your GP everything should be ok.


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

I genuinely think they're just ****ing with you because your on steroids, it's their job to promote health and well being, I think they hope you wipe sweat from your brow and think 'I'm never touching AAS again that was a close call'. They're always awkward as **** with me


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

sprayer said:


> I am almost certain they take snapshots of different things while doing the scan. They have a pretty good idea right on the spot if something is up or not. But I had the same as stone14, he did the scan and told me he would write up the report or sometimes they get the doctor to go through the images and write the report. Depends who did it, when I had my liver ultrasound a nurse did it, took pictures and said she can't comment and that a doctor will need to asses the images and write the report.
> 
> Basically what I think is happening the doctor got the report and he wants you to come in to go through the results. This does not mean necessarily that it has been a bad outcome. Just he needs to see you and give you the results. I got a call once that I need to come after they got the results at the GP. I was ****ting bricks for a couple days. I get in there and the doctor goes everything came back fine. FFS
> 
> Got a feeling you will be alright!


Yeh same I think ill be fine, then back to the gym to smash it up  lol well no quite, got a 12weeks cruise starting now so....


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

TJ_ said:


> eh??? When I had mine they put some gel on me and some mechanical thing which was sort of like what they use for a baby scan on a pregnant woman, my heart was on a big screen and the woman went through it all with me, telling me what was what etc, also told me there and then apart from a IRBBB which is fairly common I had nothing to worry about. I don't know how they could 'check the scan later' when they pysically check it whilst ur there?


As you may imagine i had a few of these after my heart attack and it was always the consultant who discussed the results with me afterwards, not the nurse doing the scan.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

TJ_ said:


> I genuinely think they're just ****ing with you because your on steroids, it's their job to promote health and well being, I think they hope you wipe sweat from your brow and think 'I'm never touching AAS again that was a close call'. They're always awkward as **** with me


Iv thought about it and tbh even if it did come back something was up I don't think I could give up aas.. Tempo time off yes if needed but not permanantly, they've had too much of a positive effect on my life all my lifestyle is is the gym now, I think happiness comes before health (just), but this doesn't mean be wreckless with your health, I'd rather have a happy mind and unhealthy body than the opposite if I had to make that choice. No point living to 100yr old if your life has been depression sort of thing.


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

Mars said:


> As you may imagine i had a few of these after my heart attack and it was always the consultant who discussed the results with me afterwards, not the nurse doing the scan.


Ah I see, god knows mate just commenting based on my experience, I find it odd they'd make you sweat and say they need to review the results when they're watching it on a big screen whilst they're doing it, the nurse checked everything with me, told me what she was checking and why and if it was ok or abnormal


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes. I have an enlarged heart. Found out after I had a coronary spasm last year. Cardiologist asked me immediately if I was on gear and I just told him yes. Can't imagine it has improved as I have been worse than ever since!


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Iv thought about it and tbh even if it did come back something was up I don't think I could give up aas.. Tempo time off yes if needed but not permanantly, they've had too much of a positive effect on my life all my lifestyle is is the gym now, I think happiness comes before health (just), but this doesn't mean be wreckless with your health, I'd rather have a happy mind and unhealthy body than the opposite if I had to make that choice. No point living to 100yr old if your life has been depression sort of thing.


If something was up I think you'd be a fool to continue with them mate, prioritise your health or all the steroids are gonna achieve is you having a bigger coffin than the average person lol. I defo think they make u worry about the results, I don't see it any different as a baby scan, they can tell if something's up, they wouldn't let a pregnant woman go home and say 'we'll let you know if your baby is healthy' they check everything and say 'that's their little heart beat, that's babies legs, babies head is growing well' etc etc


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Irish Beast said:


> Yes. I have an enlarged heart. Found out after I had a coronary spasm last year. Cardiologist asked me immediately if I was on gear and I just told him yes. Can't imagine it has improved as I have been worse than ever since!


Do you still cycle also? Did they not recommend time ott to see if the size would reduce back to normal size?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

TJ_ said:


> Ah I see, god knows mate just commenting based on my experience, I find it odd they'd make you sweat and say they need to review the results when they're watching it on a big screen whilst they're doing it, the nurse checked everything with me, told me what she was checking and why and if it was ok or abnormal


They can only tell you the basics though, they are not qualified to do anymore than that, even my cardiac facillitator couldn't answer all my questions (your consultant will be able to tell you that, i don't know for sure, is what she said on one occasion) and she is much higher up/more qualified than the nurse that does the echo.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I find out the crack about my ticker in 2hr 15mins EEEEEEK!


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## Machette (Oct 29, 2011)

stone14 said:


> I find out the crack about my ticker in 2hr 15mins EEEEEEK!


Mate hope all is well... Fcuk the gear off and train natually im sure youll still gain well...


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## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

best of luck pal..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

The results:

Gp said my lest side is borderline enlarged, also a slight decrease in function also a couple of slight leaky valves.

The leaky valves he said can be normal for anyone no matter what there lifestyle so isn't a concern as they are.

He wants to refer me to a specialist but needs another gp to agree to it from the results which he said won't be a problem.

So I will hear in the post when I need to go back to hosp for a heart specialist to view the results and go from there.

Also something in my blood results cam back as high in my kidneys which I can't remember the name began with 'c' or 'k' he said can be from aas use or from having more muscle bulk, he believes that's nothing to worry about from my musclar size,

All other bloods are fine. And no other heart issues apart from the above


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Also got the standard lecture about aas arnt healthy and if the heart muscle grows too big for the blood supply it will cause dead tissue and heart attack and can be instant death


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## davesays (Aug 9, 2012)

stone14 said:


> The results:
> 
> Gp said my lest side is borderline enlarged, also a slight decrease in function also a couple of slight leaky valves.
> 
> ...


Was it creatinine?

Good luck with the results man!


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## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

stone14 said:


> Also got the standard lecture about aas arnt healthy and if the heart muscle grows too big for the blood supply it will cause dead tissue and heart attack and can be instant death


aas is def the cause of these probs pal? u may have put in an earlier post, have u been b&c for a long time? long cycles ? just interested


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

davesays said:


> Was it creatinine?
> 
> Good luck with the results man!


No not creatinine, sounded something like cryites or something.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

ive not been in the same situation, but i know an enlarged heart is reversible. Its not just gear that can cause this, lifing big heavy weights without a break can aswell.

I use to have an ECG every 6-12 months when I use to use gear.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Lawrence 82 said:


> aas is def the cause of these probs pal? u may have put in an earlier post, have u been b&c for a long time? long cycles ? just interested


Stayed on since feb 2011, and about 6month werth of trt 250mg e10d and 6moth werth of cycles per year. So normal use realy just with out the natty recovery. Nothing out of the ordinary..


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Iv thought about it and tbh even if it did come back something was up I don't think I could give up aas.[/quote
> 
> well great statement that is - what a total tool


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

What about leaky valves and decrease in function are those reversable?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Lawrence 82 said:


> aas is def the cause of these probs pal? u may have put in an earlier post, have u been b&c for a long time? long cycles ? just interested


Ok will do dude, iv added results to my OP.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

romper stomper said:


> Yeh I guess that's not the best frame of mind to have tbh..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm going to start my 6weeks off training from today, hopefully within that time I will have been to hosp and know more.

Iv seen a few guys have 6weeks off with a slight enlarged LVH does this mean no sex either because that's strenuous aswell, (serious question)

And also no cv at all,no nothing?...


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> I'm going to start my 6weeks off training from today, hopefully within that time I will have been to hosp and know more.
> 
> Iv seen a few guys have 6weeks off with a slight enlarged LVH does this mean no sex either because that's strenuous aswell, (serious question)
> 
> And also no cv at all,no nothing?...


Not a worry then mate.

My LVH is severe and they didnt even bother to do anything about it when they put a stent in my aorta, consultant said although it was severe it was qworking fine.

Creatinine is whats in your kidneys.

Sex is fine christ they even said it's fine after my massive heart attack.

All training is fine, weights and CV


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> Not a worry then mate.
> 
> My LVH is severe and they didnt even bother to do anything about it when they put a stent in my aorta, consultant said although it was severe it was qworking fine.
> 
> ...


But will time off not be a good idea to try and reduce it incase it just gradually gets bigger (enlarged)?

Do you have any thoughts on the decreased function? I'd guess it could be because of the enlargment and not doing cv (clueless realy just a guess).

Also the leaking valves I'm sure aslong as bp is ok then there not a problem, also the doc said they can be normal in all walks of life no problems and its only slight.

He did make out like it was barely borderline so it must just be tipping over the line. I'd rather try and reduce it now if I can to keep it in the normal range. I'm on a 12week trt dose cruise now anyway so I guess I could make it 6weeks time out from training if I had to or if its a good idea, from other posts iv seen it seems like a good idea.

I'm sure, or I hope this specialist I see is more realistic and open about the situation then just try and fill you will horror stories instant death etc like the gp has, I no hw has to say all that tho... Well he was actually a 'locum' that I seen today.

I'd rather try and adjust in this early stage then just crack on as I am till its a bigger issue later on sort of thing.

Do you think time off is good or end result pointless?

Defo having a proper cv routine from now on even 30min x3 ew on a bulk, and check my diet for the good heart supps like potassium, magnesium etc, my mag seems fine my potassium I think can do better. I have seleium supps aswell I can start taking and probably buy in coQ10 for permanant use with seleium (for gerneral heart health, I know thies won't effect my current problem)


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

Well looks like the results are not too bad mate. Leaky valves I think are common, I have one where slight regurgitation happens (no aas use). Your enlargement will have to see what the specialist says. He will no doubt have a much better picture than your GP. Hope it will be insignificant.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> But will time off not be a good idea to try and reduce it incase it just gradually gets bigger (enlarged)?
> 
> Do you have any thoughts on the decreased function? I'd guess it could be because of the enlargment and not doing cv (clueless realy just a guess).
> 
> ...


The best approach is never to do cruise or trt between cycles, stick to a couple of cycles a year and you will be fine.

LVH is not an immediate problem, even if it gets severe, it's only when you get in to your 60's 70's that LVH will probably cause a heart attack.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> The best approach is never to do cruise or trt between cycles, stick to a couple of cycles a year and you will be fine.
> 
> LVH is not an immediate problem, even if it gets severe, it's only when you get in to your 60's 70's that LVH will probably cause a heart attack.


My trt 250mg e10d test'e works out about 6month per year so there's only room for 2 cycles, its not the 4-6weeks trt some take, or an excuse to stay on longer, Its just to cut out the need for pct as recovery makes my weight yo-yo so trt is easier to maintain and progress.

My last trt dose was for 6month before this 20week cycle so iv had plenty time at around natty test doses.

I could get sust instead of test'e and see how I feel at 250mg e3w.

So it will be no different than if I was to be on trt from a GP.?,.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

stone14 said:


> So no more stims for me I think, caffine, clen, eca, coke , mkat,
> 
> Not that I bother with class As now but I did a in my younger days.
> 
> ...


That will clog some sht up especially at a gram EQ thickens the blood

my heart was also enlarged well that's what nurses said then i went to my GP and he took a look and said it was fine...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> That will clog some sht up especially at a gram EQ thickens the blood
> 
> my heart was also enlarged well that's what nurses said then i went to my GP and he took a look and said it was fine...


Yeh all that class A's was many years ago tho, just saying I won't use again, didn't plan to anyway lol, I have the odd couple lines to brighten up a night out but nothing wreckless.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

The lass iv been on and off with has just been diagnosed with an enlarged heart also, the whole heart tho, enherited from her mother who has the same condition, she's straight on meds off the doc to keep stablise it and will be on them the rest of her life.

oviously nothing like my issue but it just feels weird she's got just had an echo and another heart issue has been found with her, so the both of us atm...


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

My ccousins been diagnosed with the same after 10 years of use, he's been advised to come of aas, which he is doing, spending ttime with his kids is more important and he realised thankfully, the doc said he won't have problems now but down the line he's going to be fcuked, is it really worth it? This is why I always recommend time off to help the body


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## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

Mars said:


> The best approach is never to do cruise or trt between cycles, stick to a couple of cycles a year and you will be fine.
> 
> LVH is not an immediate problem, even if it gets severe, it's only when you get in to your 60's 70's that LVH will probably cause a heart attack.


Not really true

I think when it gets to 15mm thickness and above is where sudden death can occur


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

flynnie11 said:


> Not really true
> 
> I think when it gets to 15mm thickness and above is where sudden death can occur


Anything over 15mm is when it becomes classed as enlarged, so I'd assume mine being boarderline or just over (slightly) will be around this range..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I don't under stand how some can hammer 5g ew and cruise on 2g ew and be fine and my small doses in comparison has cause a problem, do you think its also down to if your prone to heart problems naturally like in the genes or hereditary and not just aas dose or activity dependant?


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## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

stone14 said:


> I don't under stand how some can hammer 5g ew and cruise on 2g ew and be fine and my small doses in comparison has cause a problem, do you think its also down to if your prone to heart problems naturally like in the genes or hereditary and not just aas dose or activity dependant?


Alot of factors

I think the use of blood pressure meds and other organ meds play a huge roll


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## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

stone14 said:


> Anything over 15mm is when it becomes classed as enlarged, so I'd assume mine being boarderline or just over (slightly) will be around this range..


I've seen studies which show it happens after this range

Don't have it saved

But other factors prob played a part too


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2013)

stone14 said:


> I don't under stand how some can hammer 5g ew and cruise on 2g ew and be fine and my small doses in comparison has cause a problem, do you think its also down to if your prone to heart problems naturally like in the genes or hereditary and not just aas dose or activity dependant?


You will probably find that most user dont monitor themselves at all , they may be doing 5g a week now but in the future they are the ones with major problems or the ones that keel over dead.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

For the pb meds is there any safe enough to self admin while on cycle if bp is a concern?

I was under the impression they are not to be messed with but some it seems work well and are safe??


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Seems there's a massive list...

http://www.ehow.com/m/about_5459785_safest-pressure-medicines-market-today.html


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## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

stone14 said:


> Seems there's a massive list...
> 
> http://www.ehow.com/m/about_5459785_safest-pressure-medicines-market-today.html


best ask over at pro muscle


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

flynnie11 said:


> best ask over at pro muscle


It seems beta blockers are the way forward, will see my doc when I get my referal letter to see him at the time about them. Metoprolol has been mensioned on other boards as being safe. Oviously something to see my gp about.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Are u still on gear now ?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Just on trt dose, my last cycle shot (end of cycle shot 300mg test'e+200mg mast'e) was last thurs so I'm due 1ml 2-3weeks from that point so either next thurs or the thur after, just depends how I feel, I can normally feel when my test is low, cruise was pre-planned for the next 12weeks anyway,

I will have seen my doc long before then tho, probably in the next 2-3weeks, also iv stopped training for now. Not sure if I can still do cv or not iv been trying to find out. I'm sure my doc will tell me to stop and have a re-scan to check the progress of it, so might aswell start that time off now and I might get a re-scan sooner.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> It seems beta blockers are the way forward, will see my doc when I get my referal letter to see him at the time about them. Metoprolol has been mensioned on other boards as being safe. Oviously something to see my gp about.


You wont think that way after being on them, for any period of time.They are truly awful.You can forget about any training or athlete endevours.Plus the pyschological effects are terrible too.My cardiologist, wouldnt prescribe them, as he believed they created more problems than they solved.

Its probably about time you realised that you have to live a drug free life,if you intend to live for any significant time that is.

You know my history,and that I dont judge your life choices any more than the doctors do.It would appear that AAS use does have a significant role upon heart health.Much more than I initially realised before joining this board.

The incidences of heart problems in young athlete males, is totally off the scale, if we are to believe whats been written here, over the past few years.

The partys over mate.Without wanting to sound like a Wham track from the 80s .Choose life..............


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

essexboy said:


> You wont think that way after being on them, for any period of time.They are truly awful.You can forget about any training or athlete endevours.Plus the pyschological effects are terrible too.My cardiologist, wouldnt prescribe them, as he believed they created more problems than they solved.
> 
> Its probably about time you realised that you have to live a drug free life,if you intend to live for any significant time that is.
> 
> ...


Even tho the borderline enlarged lvh is reversible, which I'm working on now with time off, also decrease in function can improve from cv fitness training which tbh iv neglected massively. And the slight leaky valves the doc said isn't a problem and won't be aas related people have them there whole life no problem.

I'm not being 1 track minded and refusing the negative advice but I don't see how its the end yet, iv caught this very early on and can be rectified plus knowing I'm prone to this I can monitor myself better.

I havnt got and permanant or life threatening heart issue... Some on here have mod-severe lvh and still no problems same on other forums I'm talking to guys in usa they still use aas and compete etc some have been on beta blockers ed over 10years no problems since starting them and still running aas for example.

I'm just trying to build my knowledge up on how to cure/treat and reduce the problem and options I can take to still live the gym life iv chose and keep the heart problem at bay also.

If It was major or permanant then I'd defo have to come off but I can't see how why I need to at this very early boarderline stage. My bp has been an issue this year and iv been on 20weeks so that also will have increase the growth I'd imagine, my bp today is:

144/60 rhr 58bpm.

Iv seen on the net 120 or below is good 120-129 is above ideal and 140+ is hypertension.

Some on betas have a bp of 112/50-60 theve told me. Will they not be an option from my gp with the reading I have.

Also cv should drop it which I plan to concerntrate on once my lvh is in normal range and I can train again.

Even running shorted aas cycle and longer time off could be an option do you not agree? Over the 1x20weeker Iv had this year and last year. Still equals 6mth on 6mth off tho.....

Just can't wait to get into hosp to see the doc to find out more tbh instead of sitting around...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Oviously when this issue is resolved and I continue as I am and further down the line I hit a major problem I will most certainly regret not stopping it now but tbh I can't prodict the future. It is possibly many on here have some sort of heart issue that has been undiagnosed and are walking the same path as me but adleast I can try and work with and around it rather than walking blind into it.

Its early stages yet I'm just not ready to give up the life iv chose just yet, need more info and options and opinions from the doc 1st, I just hope he is more open minded and realistic and will accept the fact the gym and aas use is the path iv chose and offers his proffessional help to help me work with it, not the blunt scare stories the other gp tried because tbh that doesn't help the situation bacause its basicly blatent refusal to help which is wrong imo.

Some choose poor diets, smoking, alcohol, rec drugs, my lifestyle is better imo, my hearts having abit of a hard time atm but its early stages and can return to normal and improved now I no I need to concentrate on it.

I just can't say im giving up aas + the gym if I don't mean it. I believe there could be other options atm.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Oviously when this issue is resolved and I continue as I am and further down the line I hit a major problem I will most certainly regret not stopping it now but tbh I can't prodict the future. It is possibly many on here have some sort of heart issue that has been undiagnosed and are walking the same path as me but adleast I can try and work with and around it rather than walking blind into it.
> 
> Its early stages yet I'm just not ready to give up the life iv chose just yet, need more info and options and opinions from the doc 1st, I just hope he is more open minded and realistic and will accept the fact the gym and aas use is the path iv chose and offers his proffessional help to help me work with it, not the blunt scare stories the other gp tried because tbh that doesn't help the situation bacause its basicly blatent refusal to help which is wrong imo.
> 
> ...


I doubt if decreased EJ has anything to do with fitness.It doesnt work like that.There is no reason for EJ to decrease in an otherwise healthy young male.Unless of course, an underlying cause is present.That maybe related to your LA enlargement, and high BP.

,Labelling Doctors, are unrealistic and scaremongers is really not accurate.Most dont judge, they just have a duty of care.Theyve seen it all before.

Sure some choose poor diets, and drinking,However, some also choose potholing and sky diving.Whats your point?

The issue is your heart health,nothing else.

I treid cycling whilst on Beta Blockers.It was near on impossible.If your happy to handle the depression, constant fatigue, and lots more then fine.Honestly though mate, it was the worst 6 months of my life.Thats what you get though when your treated by some halfwit, on the NHS.

It wasnt until I went to Barts and saw the top guys ,that they stopped all drugs.They can cause more dangerous arrythmias than they prevent.If you have long qt syndrome, or other potentially fatal conditions, you have no choice.However, to use them so you can continue AAS use is crazy, IMHO.

My mate was having "weird" chest feelings last year.He saw my guy, and the first question was "How Much cocaine are you using?" When my mate was diagnosed with 1st degree heart block,He was casually informed that if he wanted to see his 40th birthday,it was time to stop.No judgement.Just an opinion of one of Europes top Cardiologists.

Anyway my meanderings wont have any impact on your decision.You have a blinkered attitude, and will constantly try and justify your choice, even in the face of empirical evidence that AAS are going to have a very negative impact on your health.

Please dont be angered by my comments,Im NOT trying to antagonise or bait you.Just my opinion.Good luck with your choices.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

This should be a wake up call for people to check BP on cycle and off tbh, enlarged left ventricals, valves etc often stem from prolonged high blood pressure, we spend hundreds on gear and most....zero on BP meds, that being said enlarged hearts are common even in natural athletes, i think reccies are the biggest culprit though for long term heart problems but big doses without other measures is a recipe for disaster for some.

To OP hope its not too bad a problem bud.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

essexboy said:


> I doubt if decreased EJ has anything to do with fitness.It doesnt work like that.There is no reason for EJ to decrease in an otherwise healthy young male.Unless of course, an underlying cause is present.That maybe related to your LA enlargement, and high BP.
> 
> ,Labelling Doctors, are unrealistic and scaremongers is really not accurate.Most dont judge, they just have a duty of care.Theyve seen it all before.
> 
> ...


That's fine dude I respect your opinion and advice thanks for taking the time to post some good info to me, were is barts i take it there not nhs?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Jim78 said:


> This should be a wake up call for people to check BP on cycle and off tbh, enlarged left ventricals, valves etc often stem from prolonged high blood pressure, we spend hundreds on gear and most....zero on BP meds, that being said enlarged hearts are common even in natural athletes, i think reccies are the biggest culprit though for long term heart problems but big doses without other measures is a recipe for disaster for some.
> 
> To OP hope its not too bad a problem bud.


I agree that's why I'm still open to options and still using aas 'atm' I'm off now and training till I see my doc anyway.

Surely once its in normal range and aslong as bp is kept at bay then other issues are unlikely.

The decreased function is the reason iv been sent to a specialist at hosp, not the left wall thickness or valves. These 3 issues are only just tipping over the boarderline guidelines so its a small issue in there terms I would think. But good its been spotted now.

Also the thicker wall tightness could cause a decrease and also the valve to leak the doc said it could all just be linked to the thick left wall. So theroreticly once the wall size is reduced the rest will function as normal an there will be a perfectly good heart as normal no issues...

Just hope I get this appointment asap to here a specialist verdict.

Think I might write a letter tbh to put everything I want to say down for him to read, I know when I get there I will have a mind blank but remember when I leave lol.


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## Slimjim83 (Aug 15, 2012)

stone14 said:


> I had an ECG a few weeks ago for my heart burn and palpatations I was getting at the time and a blood test, docs made me an appointment to go in today.
> 
> He said the ECG shows a slight enlargment of the left side of my heart, he said it can be normal in young active people, he asked again about aas use which upto now I have always said no, but told him I have actually used them for a few year today.
> 
> ...


Hi mate, I think your worrying about nothing as I had the same test done 3 years ago before I ever touched aas. My left ventricle was also hypertrophied and my pulse rate was and still is 44 bpm. He attributed this to football in my younger years and the high fitness level I had at the time. I was running 25-30 miles per week at about a 7 min mile. Also boxing and Muay Thai. I haven't had the same test since starting aas but no doubt it will be the same. Keep up the cardio. Forget about low heart rate and just get on the treadmill and sweat it out for half hour 3-4 times a week. You'll feel miles better and fitter.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Could u not train but keep an eye out on heart rate ?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> It seems beta blockers are the way forward, will see my doc when I get my referal letter to see him at the time about them. Metoprolol has been mensioned on other boards as being safe. Oviously something to see my gp about.


Yep, i'm on beta blockers (propanolol) have been for years, don't know why essexboy had such a bad time on them but i have never had any side effects from them at all, they may even help reduce LVH.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

reza85 said:


> Could u not train but keep an eye out on heart rate ?


I'm not sure tbh just want it to reduce asap or adleast off till I see my doc, its gana kill me not training its all I look forward to, just missing 1 session annoyes me a lot nrver mind weeks off


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> Yep, i'm on beta blockers (propanolol) have been for years, don't know why essexboy had such a bad time on them but i have never had any side effects from them at all, they may even help reduce LVH.


Is propanolol safe can you remember what your pre bp reading was and what it is now to compare how effective the dose is?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> Is propanolol safe can you remember what your pre bp reading was and what it is now to compare how effective the dose is?


I'm on ramipril specifically for BP, the propanolol is for my heart.

Propanolol is safe, there were no tests that needing doing, it's only ACE inhibitors like ramipril were you need to be monitored, i have to have a kidney function test 2 x yearly.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> I'm on ramipril specifically for BP, the propanolol is for my heart.
> 
> Propanolol is safe, there were no tests that needing doing, it's only ACE inhibitors like ramipril were you need to be monitored, i have to have a kidney function test 2 x yearly.


Ah ryt cool


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

So your propanolol can't drop your bp to unsafe levels


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## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

Just come off for 6 months plus and get everything sorted

U live once, if u go on again it could be worse by this time next year, and then what? U may have no option but to give up aas

Whatever u loose, u will gain back in a number of weeks of going back on , provided u keep training and eat good.

Give ur body a good break and then smash it for a good bit when u go back on


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> So your propanolol can't drop your bp to unsafe levels


No mate, it's not a very good med for high BP, but it does help a little.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> No mate, it's not a very good med for high BP, but it does help a little.


ah right cool so other beta's would probably work better for that.

iv just bought some inj vitb12 for appetite, energy etc. I take it that's ok to still use atm?


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## flynnie11 (Jan 24, 2009)

U will be bac here in a years time with a lower ejection fraction asking what meds u can use to cycle with heart failure

Don't be stupid, come off and get ur health sorted

All this talk of beta blockers and bp meds is almost laughable

U got to deal with reality, and get ur health sorted and don't be stupid


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

stone14 said:


> *ah right cool so other beta's would probably work better for that.*
> 
> iv just bought some inj vitb12 for appetite, energy etc. I take it that's ok to still use atm?


No mate, if your BP is high they will give you an ACE inhibitor and kidney function tests.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2013)

For the record I was on 160mg day of propranolol for 2 year,didnt really effect bp it just brught my heart rate dwn .I came off cos of serious ED


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ah right my rhr is 58bpm this morning its just my pressure is abit high imo 144-148/63 and my bp is pretty constant at this, my bp goes right up when having sex tho me head is pounding, I checked it after sex and it was 188/90 (the bp monitor was just 'there' and I just wondered)


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> No mate, if your BP is high they will give you an ACE inhibitor and kidney function tests.


ah right I thought the lowered bp also because the diulate the blood vessles and relax the heart etc


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Mars said:


> No mate, if your BP is high they will give you an ACE inhibitor and kidney function tests.


ah right I thought the lowered bp also because the diulate the blood vessels and relax the heart etc


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

stone14 said:


> That's fine dude I respect your opinion and advice thanks for taking the time to post some good info to me, were is barts i take it there not nhs?


St Bartholemews(sp) London.I was on a research project, Paid for by the BHF.Its a NHS hospital.However, when I had my last check up,I paid for it.Cant be ars.ed to wait.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Great tip from another forum a guy says to drink 1 glass of wine per day it dropped his bp from 125/72 to 110/58 after 3days, he has a friend that was on 12bp tablets per day and now only has the wine and bp is fine.

This must be down to its duretic effect at clearing sodium out the blood to thin it, correct or no?


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

stone14 said:


> Great tip from another forum a guy says to drink 1 glass of wine per day it dropped his bp from 125/72 to 110/58 after 3days, he has a friend that was on 12bp tablets per day and now only has the wine and bp is fine.
> 
> This must be down to its duretic effect at clearing sodium out the blood to thin it, correct or no?


Then I google and find loads of links to articles saying the opposite and 2glasses can double bp etc....

:/


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## peteuk5 (Oct 14, 2012)

Mate look at supplementing higher doses of garlic extract. It's cheap and might help.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Just a thought....

If you stop training or even AAS use temporarily, will your bits not enlarge again once you start again? I honestly believe that once the body has done something once, it is easier to reach that stage next time, a bit like blowing up a balloon.

The reason others can tolerate AAS use for longer than yourself is most likely due to genetics, just the same as why one can lift a weight and not tear themselves to shreds.

As for being worried about coming off AAS completely, if I was in your shoes, unless I was earning decent money from what I looked like or could lift, I'd come off until this is sorted and then I'd return but with low doses and a possible different training/diet plan and see if the problems return.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Just a thought....
> 
> If you stop training or even AAS use temporarily, will your bits not enlarge again once you start again? I honestly believe that once the body has done something once, it is easier to reach that stage next time, a bit like blowing up a balloon.
> 
> ...


This, stone numerous people have told you it's time to come of mate and see where your at, you keep trying to justify your aas useage but let's face it, it ain't the end of the wworld, were all going to be of one day, think about your health first mate and stop trying to justify your aas use before your health, not having a rant mate but your a good guy, rather put in straight for you then see you 6ft under


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Just a thought....
> 
> If you stop training or even AAS use temporarily, will your bits not enlarge again once you start again? I honestly believe that once the body has done something once, it is easier to reach that stage next time, a bit like blowing up a balloon.
> 
> ...


Possibly could re-grow again but I no the issue is there and can get it monitored from this point on, also lower aas doses and more time off and more cardio.

Blood pressure is the culprit for lvh growth so I need to reduce this and keep it down and aas use should be far less of a problem.

120 or less is good, 120-129 is above idea and 140+ is hypertension, I'm around 145/63 so its just into hypertension range and my lvh is boarderline above the docs normal range guidelines also so its a minimal problem atm.

Also I have felt the high bp effects on this 20week cycle and also used a decent dose of deca then tren which iv read deca is known for heart growth in those with the issue so the aas and doses iv used will have caused this, I still believe I can adjust and and still go on fine from this point. But I'm off for now till I goto my docs, got quite a lot to ask him about etc.

Also people can have severe lvh growth and still function as normal so again my issue is minimal atm and its good its been picked up so I can rectify it early on.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

stone14 said:


> Also people can have severe lvh growth and still function as normal so again my issue is minimal atm and its good its been picked up so I can rectify it early on.


Lets just say(not saying that it is) your high levels of testosterone is what is causing your problems, coming to 'TRT dose' of 250mg E10D is not the same as what those who have severe LVH growth have who manage to function as normal.

It could turn out that you're genetically OK to run 500mg test PW but then it could be that you're not and can only handle 125mg PW hence my idea of returning back to normal(natty) and start with the basics again and work up with a low dose.

I agree with the stopping the weights but I would introduce some gentle exercise such as walking or cycling but nothing strenuous.

You're not the first and certainly wont be the last to hit an obstacle in your training regime. You can come back better if you're willing to take a step back and reassess.


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Good luck mayt take it easy until you know the score bro hope your given all clear


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Lets just say(not saying that it is) your high levels of testosterone is what is causing your problems, coming to 'TRT dose' of 250mg E10D is not the same as what those who have severe LVH growth have who manage to function as normal.
> 
> It could turn out that you're genetically OK to run 500mg test PW but then it could be that you're not and can only handle 125mg PW hence my idea of returning back to normal(natty) and start with the basics again and work up with a low dose.
> 
> ...


I like this post and cheers anaboliclove


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm going to give the red wine ago for the next few days 1-2glasses for males so 125-250ml per day

See if my bp drops, won't do any harm if it doesn't...


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

stone14 said:


> I'm going to give the red wine ago for the next few days 1-2glasses for males so 125-250ml per day
> 
> See if my bp drops, won't do any harm if it doesn't...


Might give this a go too.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

stone14 said:


> So no more stims for me I think, caffine, clen, eca, coke , mkat,
> 
> Not that I bother with class As now but I did a in my younger days.
> 
> ...


Personally I would drop all aas as your long term health is more important.

Your a good size and wont loss that with diet and training mate

If your wanting to lower BP then take a large glass of beetroot juice a day as it works perfectly


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

BigTrev said:


> Personally I would drop all aas as your long term health is more important.
> 
> Your a good size and wont loss that with diet and training mate
> 
> If your wanting to lower BP then take a large glass of beetroot juice a day as it works perfectly


do you think it will work better than the wine mate, a large glass being what size 250ml? Iv seen the proper beetroot juice in asda for about £4 a litre and also h&b sell the shots but there about £2-3

Black cartons with beets or something wrote on them, the lil shots are black bottles.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Was either this or echo-falls hope iv picked the 'nicest' one lol










Edit: tastes fine tbh I'm sure iv had echo falls and this seems to have a lighter taste, very drinkable, just had my 250ml dose for today, its 13%.... echo falls is 12.5%

From what iv read alcohol free red wine is best but then there would be no duretic effect from the alcohol so I'm not sure? Will check bp in a few days see if there's a difference.


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## nightshiftboy (Apr 26, 2011)

Go for it mate. I've been cycling for a similar length of time as you and I constantly weigh up the pros and cons of the lifestyle I lead and contemplate what, if any, long term issues I might develop in the future but it's all ifs and but's.

In your situation I know I would do exactly as you are, research and trial and error every possibility to allow myself to continue living the lifestyle I want rather than just give up as some have suggested.

I'm 38 now and as older age creeps up on me I feel like I'm getter fitter, stronger mentally and physically and could never just stop, depression would kill me much quicker.

Even if I could see into the future and the end result was dropping down dead at 60 with a heart attack I'd take it. Ive no intention of being alive in my 80's wearing a nappy and sitting in my own sh*t.

Good luck mate and I'll be following your progress. Incidentally, I suffered from anxiety a few years back before i ever tried AAS and was prescribed beta blockers. I had no problems with them whatsoever, my BP went down and should I need them in future I wouldn't hesitate to get some more.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

nightshiftboy said:


> Go for it mate. I've been cycling for a similar length of time as you and I constantly weigh up the pros and cons of the lifestyle I lead and contemplate what, if any, long term issues I might develop in the future but it's all ifs and but's.
> 
> In your situation I know I would do exactly as you are, research and trial and error every possibility to allow myself to continue living the lifestyle I want rather than just give up as some have suggested.
> 
> ...


Great post mate I agree with this thanks.

I have an anxiety issue also but while I'm off aas when things work me up, people and issues, I get a big adrenaline burst to the point my hands are shaking etc even that's not good for the heart long term.

On aas tho that's gone no problems there, iv been on and off over the last 8years and been on the forums since 2004-2005 researching. Stayed on since feb2011 and ran 2x20weekers and 1x4weeker in this time so plenty cruise time.

From all this use I'm only having these boarderline issues now and its got to be down to aas induced high bp which iv felt on this 20week cycle and is the reason I went to get checked over at the docs.

If I lost my weight I would go into depression garanteed that's why I think I want to hold onto the aas use and trying to justify it as a few have noticed but that's because they've had a massive positive effect on my life as a whole and my living.

From my current and ongoing reasearch into this issue I have, enlarged LVH from aas is induced by high bp not realy a direct action from the aas itself, its from the high bp side effect,

Yes I could cut the aas out and be rid of the high bp but I can also still use aas and lower my bp either naturally or with meds.

With the meds there's 1 propanolol iv seen mensioned a lot its 50years old with masses of studies on it which shows its safe and it has many uses now not just got hypertension but anxiety also, bipolar,

Also stage frieght was an example iv seen used as a reason for a GP to prescribe it at 40mg 30mins pre-event, some use it for anxiety upto 160mg ed. Doese for bp are in the 80-160mg range. And these betas are known to drop bp, reduce and preven heart growth, relax the blood vessels so better blood flow, also block the effects of adrenaline on the heart so no crazy anxiety shakes etc. Basicly chills the heart out alowing it to function better. 'The hearts chill pill' cardio can be an issue on these meds tho if your going heavy. Light-mod is best.

Even otc remedies, iv seen posts from a guy saying 125ml of red wine dropped his friends bp from around 148 to 112 within 3days.

Also beetroot juice is proven to drop bp as is the most recent iv discovered which is celery seed extract 3x600mg ed at £7-10 per 100x600mg its pennies.

I using 200ml red wine and 200ml beetroot juice atm and going to add celery seed extract and see how that goes till I See the specialist and see what he has to say and bring up beta's to him see how he feels about it baring in mind my bp as it is no 'off' aas, my current heart issue and the positive some beta'blockers can do.

Once my enlarged lvh has cleared then its back to the gym defo regular cv and the beetroot juice+celery seed extract will also be a staple in my sups use now.

With normal bp then there's no stress on the heart and no more growth, other than too high RBC can stretch the cavity but my bloods show my doses have cause no problem top my RBC count, so I think that point may be over excagerated at the mod doses we use tbh just going off my own experience.

Healthy bp levels 120-80/70-60 = healthy heart (no size growth)

My bp is 148/63 my GP says that's fine but from what iv read I don't agree and I want it lower. This reading is me at rest, when I'm active and after food it goes up closer to 160/70 and with eating frequently my bp is going to be at that higher level imo.

So its a waiting game till I get to see the specialist. Plus these natty fixes will have had a chance to take effect also by then.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Also my GP said its not a major problem its only boarderline but its something to monitor and keep stable for the future, I'm not on deaths door step, also many will have this issue but its going unknown some severe growth, with frequent training and aas use if you've not been checked then you won't know.

Iv told a couple of my mates and they say there scared to get tested incase something shows up. Well I'd rather know about it and cure/reduce then prevent it then walk into it blind.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

stone14 said:


> Also my GP said its not a major problem its only boarderline but its something to monitor and keep stable for the future, I'm not on deaths door step, also many will have this issue but its going unknown some severe growth, with frequent training and aas use if you've not been checked then you won't know.
> 
> Iv told a couple of my mates and they say there scared to get tested incase something shows up. Well I'd rather know about it and cure/reduce then prevent it then walk into it blind.


Beet root juice did nothing for me other than taste disgusting ramipril is amazing.

My GP laughed when I told him I thought it would help.


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

stone14 said:


> Iv told a couple of my mates and they say there scared to get tested incase something shows up. Well I'd rather know about it and cure/reduce then prevent it then walk into it blind.


Amazing is it not. Been trying to convince my misses father to go get checked out. Clearly his hormones are so out of whack that it is not funny. Shift work, stress, smoking, bad eating habits, diabetic... He says the same thing nah I don't want them to find anything, plus I need to keep my job. Well this friggin job is killing you (bad hours all over the place)

Oh well you can't help people that don't want to help themselves. They would rather just torture themselves instead of doing something.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Kimball said:


> Beet root juice did nothing for me other than taste disgusting ramipril is amazing.
> 
> My GP laughed when I told him I thought it would help.


What's ramipril dude?


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

stone14 said:


> What's ramipril dude?


BP med, mars already mentioned it a couple of times, supposedly THE BP med, I'm even going to lie about my BP to stay on it for good


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Kimball said:


> BP med, mars already mentioned it a couple of times, supposedly THE BP med, I'm even going to lie about my BP to stay on it for good


Ah cool, yeh there's a few been mensioned I'm crap with remembering there names lol, is that an ace inhibitor then? X


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

stone14 said:


> Ah cool, yeh there's a few been mensioned I'm crap with remembering there names lol, is that an ace inhibitor then? X


Yep


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

stone14 said:


> I agree that's why I'm still open to options and still using aas 'atm' I'm off now and training till I see my doc anyway.
> 
> Surely once its in normal range and aslong as bp is kept at bay then other issues are unlikely.
> 
> ...


Been a few days since I posted mate but sounds a good idea the letter tbh as I know what u mean! Ive been on a long time so for all I know I may have same as you! so you finding out imo is a blessing in disguise....think your right, imo a low dose if u can be disciplined to stay on it will more than likely be safe, blood pressure is always gonna be the root cause of most aas/heart probs but the leasts concern to many that lift.....its until this happens or you hear of it happening more and more, that your attention is drawn to it.

Hope itgoes well bud and Il keep having a look to see what the outcome was/is.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Jim78 said:


> Been a few days since I posted mate but sounds a good idea the letter tbh as I know what u mean! Ive been on a long time so for all I know I may have same as you! so you finding out imo is a blessing in disguise....think your right, imo a low dose if u can be disciplined to stay on it will more than likely be safe, blood pressure is always gonna be the root cause of most aas/heart probs but the leasts concern to many that lift.....its until this happens or you hear of it happening more and more, that your attention is drawn to it.
> 
> Hope itgoes well bud and Il keep having a look to see what the outcome was/is.


Ok cheers dude


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Tool 3 bp reading this morning upon getting out of bed and its 157/81 hr 57bpm

Thought the wine+beetroot juice was suposed to drop it not make it werse??


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Haven't read the whole thread, but hibiscus fruit tea reduces my bp better than hawthorn, celery and beet root juice, and it's cheap as chips.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Conscript said:


> Haven't read the whole thread, but hibiscus fruit tea reduces my bp better than hawthorn, celery and beet root juice, and it's cheap as chips.


Yeh iv heard celery seed extract is great so going to get som 30day supply for £7-10 on ebay.

I though I would of had a drop tho not an increase, going to fuk the red wine off now was only having 200ml for 2days. My hR has dropped tho from 68 to 57bpm I feel relaxed but my bp has increased a lot.

I'm at the docs now to get an appointment, going to ask for beta's for the time being, not fukn about.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't ask for betas, they'll fuk you up, my cardio said he would only prescribe them if the alternative was sudden death. Ask for 2.5mg ramipril, although you're barely borderline anyway.

And stop p1ssing about with extract of dogs ear and crap, they don't work unless you want a placebo. All beet root juice does is make it look like you're about to die of bowel cancer when you go to the loo


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Hello mate, as I have told you, Celery Seed Extract was the one thing which worked for me, massively bringing BP under control when on high dose AAS. I got mine from Zipvit but they don't stock it anymore. 3 * 500mg tabs.

Good luck mate.

Go easy on gear and drop down to a cruise. Lots of water and throw some cardio in once BP under control.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeh h&b said it makes your urine red. Also just seen her there walking past the shop and told her 2days of 200ml red wine and my bp has increased and she's said keep going with it something it gets werse before it gets better sort of thing.

And according to the net charts 140+ is hypertension. 120-80/70-60 is were it should be.

Mines too high imo if I want this enlargment to clear then I need it to drop imo. It wasn't even that high on cycle appart from a couple days os dbol which I stopped.

Also my bp goes up after food, if its 157/81 getting out of bed after sleep for 8hours its going to be higher again through the day.

Will ask about ramipil but I was told to stay away from ace inhibitors?


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Who told you that and why? Even GPs illegally self prescribe ramipril!

I've only seen people tell you to keep away from betas, might you have misread?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Huntingground said:


> Hello mate, as I have told you, Celery Seed Extract was the one thing which worked for me, massively bringing BP under control when on high dose AAS. I got mine from Zipvit but they don't stock it anymore. 3 * 500mg tabs.
> 
> Good luck mate.
> 
> Go easy on gear and drop down to a cruise. Lots of water and throw some cardio in once BP under control.


Cool mate, yeh just been to h&b they have 100x600mg tub for £6 buy 1 get 2nd for 1p offer on them atm.

Also last jab was 25th july (its 6/8/13 today)

Next jab will either be thurs or the thurs after because I'm off cycle now and want to try 250mg sust e2-3w.

Iv dropped all training also aswell I'm not sure if I can do cardio or not tho? Just want this lvh growth down asap, and high bp is going to slow that, so need it down a-sap.

Think I will just ask the doc for meds see what he says then ask what he thinks about beta's and ace's. Any use will be temporary till its under control, its not a permanant issue.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Kimball said:


> Who told you that and why? Even GPs illegally self prescribe ramipril!
> 
> I've only seen people tell you to keep away from betas, might you have misread?


No GP just other on forums said there dangerous compared to beta's. I don't no tbh I'll take your advice tho.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Guys forget the natural remedies for high BP.Do you honestly think that Pharmacutical Companies would invest billions trying to find effective drugs to manage one of the most common killers of modern man, when Beetroot and celery were effective?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Kimball said:


> Who told you that and why? Even GPs illegally self prescribe ramipril!
> 
> I've only seen people tell you to keep away from betas, might you have misread?


ok will ask about these thanks dude. are they fine to do cardio on also? iv read with beta's only low cardio is a good idea because the heart cant get the rate up high enough if you hammer cardio on beta's....


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

essexboy said:


> Guys forget the natural remedies for high BP.Do you honestly think that Pharmacutical Companies would invest billions trying to find effective drugs to manage one of the most common killers of modern man, when Beetroot and celery were effective?


Worked great for me but everybody is different.

Do you think that Statins are a good drug and that all phrama companies act morally at all times


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

stone14 said:


> ok will ask about these thanks dude. are they fine to do cardio on also? iv read with beta's only low cardio is a good idea because the heart cant get the rate up high enough if you hammer cardio on beta's....


Ramipril has had no effect on anything other than my BP, not a thing


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

That was a waste of time, he refused any help said my bp is fine, he said if you check his now it will be in the 160-170 and he's not worried, a burst out laughing thinking are you for real?

Didn't bother asking about those meds he wud have just laffed in my face. Point blank refused to do anything.

So will continue with the red wine, beetroot, celery seed and start ligh cv 30min x5 ew, till I see the doc at hosp and if still no help then I'll source and help myself, fukn usless!


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Huntingground said:


> Worked great for me but everybody is different.
> 
> Do you think that Statins are a good drug and that all phrama companies act morally at all times


Well maybe placebo was evident,or your biology changed.I dont accept the Beetroot/celery cure.No I dont think Pharma companies act any more morally than any other industry.However the drugs have to be efficacious,and they are strictly monitored.

As for stains.Hailed as a wonder drug,unfortunately now beginning to be cited in some fatal conditions.A drug, that wouldnt be required for 99% of users if they adopted a healthier lifestyle.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

essexboy said:


> Well maybe placebo was evident,or your biology changed.I dont accept the Beetroot/celery cure.No I dont think Pharma companies act any more morally than any other industry.However the drugs have to be efficacious,and they are strictly monitored.
> 
> As for stains.Hailed as a wonder drug,unfortunately now beginning to be cited in some fatal conditions.A drug, that wouldnt be required for 99% of users if they adopted a healthier lifestyle.


Drug companies pay for the research into the drugs which is a massive cost, then they fund the studies (as they did with Statins, hailed as a wonder drug by these studies, now known to be a killer but still prescribed by GPs who receive a little cashback for each prescription) and obviously the results follow.

Drugs have to be efficacious - lol, thalidamide etc etc.

Anyhow, as I have stated, I remained on the same gear etc and my BP dropped markedly. A lot of the most effective drugs have come from natural raw materials.

Obviously you can believe the pharma companies results if you so wish. I will believe my real life result (and I am aware that it is a small study, no placebo tests etc etc).


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> Drug companies pay for the research into the drugs which is a massive cost, then they fund the studies (as they did with Statins, hailed as a wonder drug by these studies, now known to be a killer but still prescribed by GPs who receive a little cashback for each prescription) and obviously the results follow.


Absolutely correct, still amazed how statins are so easily prescribed! I got them prescribed for a cholesterol value of 6.5. Chucked the script in the bin as soon as I got it. Yet getting TRT for low hormonal values seems impossible.

Money makes this world turn.


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

Hey Stone, next time you go to your GP take your blood pressure monitor with you. Get him to check it with the one he uses for accuracy. I do this time to time as I know they need to have theirs calibrated every so often.

You are not under stress by any chance?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

sprayer said:


> Hey Stone, next time you go to your GP take your blood pressure monitor with you. Get him to check it with the one he uses for accuracy. I do this time to time as I know they need to have theirs calibrated every so often.
> 
> You are not under stress by any chance?


No stress dude, and my GP use the old fashioned way not digital, there's a big pressure dial on the wall and he pumps the arm strap up buy hand a little ball he squeezes and puts his ear piece on my vein to hear my hear beat....


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

That is cool at least you can check what he measures there on the spot and then use your digital one to see if they are roughly the same numbers.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

stone14 said:


> do you think it will work better than the wine mate, a large glass being what size 250ml? Iv seen the proper beetroot juice in asda for about £4 a litre and also h&b sell the shots but there about £2-3
> 
> Black cartons with beets or something wrote on them, the lil shots are black bottles.


Don't go near the wine mate honestly its alcohol and only masking over problems and causing more stress long term

Take a 500ml of beetroot each morning and youll see that it will lower the bp very quickly.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Update:

Got my hosp appointment.... 7weeks away! 25sept.

If its going to be this long then I might aswell get back to training?? simple 5x5 nothing intense and good regular cardio. Keep up with the bp supps etc

Also my GP said with me having a 'stronger heart' because of the growth that my bp is normal, so cant see me getting meds from the gp anyway.

I still want my bp in the 120-80 top number range don't matter that the doc says its fine, articles on the nhs mail say 140+ is start of hypertension.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Update, been using per day:

200ml beetroot juice

1800mg celery seed ext

200ug selenium

30min cardio hr 120-140bpm x5 ew.

And so far no change to bp.

Got my hosp app in about 6weeks.

So maybe the top BP number being 140-150 is directly because of the stronger LVH pump and why its not changed yet??

I'm also going to do tokar 3-5 routine post my 30min cv workout, its low volume plenty rest between sets (3-5mins), and will maintain my strength and weight till my hosp app.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

stone14 said:


> Update, been using per day:
> 
> 200ml beetroot juice
> 
> ...


That's because you're wasting your money on all the homeopathic crap mate. Either don't worry about it because it's not that bad or get some ramipril.

All that sh1t is about as useful as milk thistle to protect your liver.


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

Your gonna worry yourself into an anxious mess mate, try to take it easy until your appointment! I'd even think about lowering to a TRT dose or coming off completely until then, your health (heart in particular) is much more important. Long term mental issues could develop from this, I have severe anxiety, insomnia and panic attacks because of AAS, wish I'd of come off when I originally planned. I'm off completely for good in a few days and won't be cycling again.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeh I'm on trt e2w now an not worried about it now I'm relaxed about it, is not a big concern atm says my GP and with my bp as it is now it will probably get left as it is, unless the hospital see's different


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## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

not having a go at all mate but i think your mad to still be on stuff with all this going on , especially cycling, its would scare the **** out of me... uv only got 1 life pal, your along time died.

you seem a top guy , look after yourself.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I only on trt at a dose that would be prescribed.

I also feel much better which I think is down to the cardio, I feel quite fit and relaxed even tho the bp monitor says my bp is the same.

Its not realy an issue atm but I'm just making it an issue for myself, I'd rather nip it in the bud now then leave it till its a bigger problem in the future. I like to prevent things rather than cure.


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## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

fair enough pal , my bad thought u were still cycling, you look my sort of age we should be fit n healthy lol, im was on from last sept till 6 weeks ago completely off

now and i feel as if im cleansing myself strange as it sounds... ye iv lost size but i feel as if everything iv put wrong is being put right if u get me, straight analogue i know

from now on im doing 12 weeks cycle same time off, i want to get old old but i want to look good getting there:thumb:


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Lawrence 82 said:


> fair enough pal , my bad thought u were still cycling, you look my sort of age we should be fit n healthy lol, im was on from last sept till 6 weeks ago completely off
> 
> now and i feel as if im cleansing myself strange as it sounds... ye iv lost size but i feel as if everything iv put wrong is being put right if u get me, straight analogue i know
> 
> from now on im doing 12 weeks cycle same time off, i want to get old old but i want to look good getting there:thumb:


Yeh since coming off cycle I feel a lot more relaxed and healthier, as if iv been turned down like a dimmer switch. Stress etc has dropped even tho I didn't feel stressed on cycle, its like iv had some valium sort of think, a lot calmer and relaxed, not mentally but physiquely, I was due to come off anyway.


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## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

good to hear it pal, u dont realise how u are feeling till u come off, i just finished with my mrs of 4 years in pct, i needed to do it anyway but pct made me really drag u the bad stuff and actually gave me the will to do it... true story lol


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Yeh since coming off cycle I feel a lot more relaxed and healthier, as if iv been turned down like a dimmer switch. Stress etc has dropped even tho I didn't feel stressed on cycle, its like iv had some valium sort of think, a lot calmer and relaxed, not mentally but physiquely, I was due to come off anyway.


that's really helped me have a more positive out look on things, counting down the days until I come off.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Update on my supps iv been using:

200ml beetroot juice,

1800mg celery seed ex (tablets)

200ug Selenlium,

It hasn't done anything to my resting bp but I think they have help stopping going too high during exercise, before taking this I used to get a pumping feeling in my ear and I could feel my bp was too high for example during and after sex. This all stopped after a week or 2 on these supps.

Because it wasn't effecting my resting bp I thought they weren't doing much if anything so slacked off on taking them.

Now the pumping has came back in my ear over the last few days. So I'm back to taking these sups now.

I'm going to stop them 2weeks before my hospital appointment so it will be in 1 weeks time so iv got nothing effecting me when I go for my appointment, there going to give me another ECG that's all I know atm.

Will update when I have my appointment.

For cost and effectivness I will likely be using meds over supps from that point onwards while on cycle.

Iv been off cycle 6weeks now and been off tren and eq for 8weeks.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I think the pumping in your ears might well be a symptom of anxiety mate.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Update had my hosp appointment, felt abit pointless realy, had another EGC, didn't get told what the results were, and then was booked in for another echo-gram in 3months time, got the letter in the post this morning for 4/12/13 just as a follow up echo from my 1st 1 7weeks ago.

The leaking valve there not bothered about and said it can be normal so forget that.

The lvh chamber is normal but the muscle wall is slightly thicker, still not of a concern to them.

The concern for them is my ejection fraction (EF) it should be 55% or above and at the time of that scan mine was 41%, still not a problem but it shud be better so this is why I have another echo booked.

They said the valve is normal, the lvh thickness is probably induced by aas+training, they don't no the reason for the EF decrease, they never once said it could be down to aas use.

Now I used to use reccy drugs in my late teens 10years ago, and since then iv had a breathing issue that iv just put up with, a few times per day I need to take a deep breath and also I yawn frequently, I forgot to mension this to the doc when he askd if I have breathlessness, I said no, but iv actually had this for along time and don't realise its there. And this is 1 side effect of a low EF so iv read so its possible the EF has been there pre aas and not caused by it.

So I will no on the 4th dec when I get my next echo if anything has improved. If its the same then its possible I can get an MRI scan and this will show exactly what the problem is taking away the docs guess work from the echo.

Since starting my cv 30mins x4-5 per week my irregular palps during cv when my HR is raised has now gone, so I'm assuming that shows my EF has improved and its pumping better,... I will know in december.

Even a low EF% doesn't mean anything by itself, he says people have lower than this and its ok, even 10% but ppl that low will get meds to improve it but its not a death sentence and neither is the lvh wall thickness, so i'm not worried at all about it. He says its highly likely this is just temporary and reversible.


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## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Update had my hosp appointment, felt abit pointless realy, had another EGC, didn't get told what the results were, and then was booked in for another echo-gram in 3months time, got the letter in the post this morning for 4/12/13 just as a follow up echo from my 1st 1 7weeks ago.
> 
> The leaking valve there not bothered about and said it can be normal so forget that.
> 
> ...


so all in all not to bad then.. pleased for you mate, this thread been quite an eye opener, cheers


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## Phil7655 (Aug 30, 2013)

stone14 said:


> So no more stims for me I think, caffine, clen, eca, coke , mkat,
> 
> Not that I bother with class As now but I did a in my younger days.
> 
> ...


Hope it all turns out ok for you bro. Genuinely. I've been through a similar heart worry recently after lots of arrythmias (I abused mdma, mcat, coke, speed etc). Obviously not ass looking at my avi haha. Yes aware it's my own fault but I can only sympathise with the feelings mate. Fingers crossed


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

GMO said:


> so all in all not to bad then.. pleased for you mate, this thread been quite an eye opener, cheers


Yeh I thought I'd just keep it updated till the conclusion which is still to come.


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## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

thats sounds pretty positive bud, well done for keeping us updated


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## NotSoBig (Jun 28, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Yeh I thought I'd just keep it updated till the conclusion which is still to come.


I wish you all the best mate! Does sound positive indeed!!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Cheers, I got a letter saying my echo is now the 30th oct so I will find out sooner


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

How did you get on with this @stone14 ?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

all is fin I have a yearly check up now my 1st one is on 25th feb 2015, will post if anything is up from it @Jay Walker@


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

stone14 said:


> all is fin I have a yearly check up now my 1st one is on 25th feb 2015, will post if anything is up from it @Jay Walker@


Just remembered this thread and wondered how you were doing. Hope all is well buddy.


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