# Stick or drop weight ?



## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

Ive started to notice i am struggling a little with my weights, i know ive probally got less energy at the moment (dnp) but basically i want to know this.

I am struggling to lift my current weights with strict form, i think ive got so carried away with adding weights that i have let form slip. DO I STICK TO THE WEIGHT UNTIL I REACH MY 3 X 8 REPS OR DO I DROP WEIGHT AND START OVER SO I CAN DO 8 REPS STRICT AGAIN.

CHEERS


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Drop the weight.

It probably is from dieting.

Ususlly one will lose some strength with weight loss due to restricted calories.

Or you can take a little more time during your workout for recouperation.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Mate if you want to go down the powerlfiting route like Chris and Big Pete say then i would say heavy is the way to go.

If you want to go down the bodybuilding route then dont wory about what weight you are lifting cause it doesnt matter. The intensity you use imo is what counts.

When i go to the gym i am bigger than alot of the guys down there but nealry all of them can lift more than me. Go figure.

This is just my opinion but bodybuilders dont have to lift big weights to acheive the physique they want. It can be done with big weights to a certain extent but there is alot to be said for ultra strict form.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

When you say intensity do you mean a weight you can lift comfortably but realy feel the muscles working/ burning because i no longer have this


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Yes that what i mean mate. Super strict imo with moderate weights is the way to go.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

If you're losing strength while cutting it means one or both of two things are wrong:

1. Your routine is overtraining you.

2. You are undereating and losing muscle.

It is definitely possible to GAIN strength even while cutting.

Cutting = cutting fat, NOT cutting muscle/strength.

You need to rethink something IMO.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

robdog said:


> This is just my opinion but bodybuilders dont have to lift big weights to acheive the physique they want. It can be done with big weights to a certain extent but there is alot to be said for ultra strict form.


Yes I agree with this to a certain extent, but you STILL need progressive resistance for optimal training no matter whether you're doing moderate weights or heavy weights.

Progressive resistance = the key to training for everyone - bodybuilders, powerlifters, weightlifters etc.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

big said:


> Yes I agree with this to a certain extent, but you STILL need progressive resistance for optimal training no matter whether you're doing moderate weights or heavy weights.
> 
> Progressive resistance = the key to training for everyone - bodybuilders, powerlifters, weightlifters etc.


Very true mate. I think at the end of the day its all down to finding what works for you.


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## Godzilla (Apr 18, 2003)

I wouldn't touch weights if I was on DNP, I'd be somewhere cool. How long have you been on it?


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

ok i think i understand, i dont think that it is im getting weakerdue to diet (i hope) ive just allways trained with heavy is best in my mind but this way i dont feel the muscles working like i did when i first started with less weight. I will drop the weights next week and see how i get on.

If it is lack of food then what am i supposed to do as im using diatia level 2 as this is my weight area, im down too 196lbs from 208lbs so not bad going but i feel everything is falling apart now.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

TYSON said:


> ok i think i understand, i dont think that it is im getting weakerdue to diet (i hope) ive just allways trained with heavy is best in my mind but this way i dont feel the muscles working like i did when i first started with less weight. I will drop the weights next week and see how i get on.
> 
> If it is lack of food then what am i supposed to do as im using diatia level 2 as this is my weight area, im down too 196lbs from 208lbs so not bad going but i feel everything is falling apart now.


If it is lack of food, then either go up to level 3 or do as chefx says and add a little butter or oil to each meal on level 2. You should be losing about 1lb/week of fat at the most. Any more is PROBABLY going to be muscle and strength loss too. When you were 208 according to diatia you should have started at level 3 and only dropped to 2 when you got below 200. This would have kept your metabolism higher for longer.

I also remember seeing a post saying you have 2 cheat days a week. If this is still the case, if I were you I would personally go up to level 3 but drop down to either 1 cheat day or half a cheat day a week. That will keep your total weekly calories probably fairly similar to where they are now, but you'll be getting a higher percentage of it from good foods.

If you're not getting weaker due to diet then it's probably your training routine that should be reviewed.

Also are you getting enough water and sleep?


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

I never did start at level 3 went in foot first at level 2 wouldnt i stop loosing if i went up a level, also that wouldnt be thr right weight class, what do you think.

Definatly getting plenty of water especially while ive been on dnp lol, start clen today.

Ive never exsperianced this before. I think ive just hit my body so hard with weights and diet over last 12 weeks its had enough, is that possable


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

or just wait till I get back and you can switch to my training hahahahaha

(hey its 80 degrees warm here in Florida!)


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I am loosing 1 pound a week and all my lifts are still up. 2 pounds a week and I dont think I can get stronger. At best I would hope I maintained my lifts, but that better be a perfect diet.

Stick or drop weights? Always lift. If you are going to drop anything drop the dnp!  Weights are the best fat burner there is. You get to burn fat and sculpt the body. Every one of Bigs posts are spot on. This stuff is not rocket science trust me. If you are getting weaker you are eather not getting enough sleep or over training, or your diet is sh1t. You are doing Diatia so the diet is cool. I think you need to do less in the gym and drop the cardio if you are doing cardio. You dont need it with the dnp.

I train 5-6 days with weights for 17 minutes heavy. I know everybody is different, but this works for me.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

TYSON said:


> I never did start at level 3 went in foot first at level 2 wouldnt i stop loosing if i went up a level, also that wouldnt be thr right weight class, what do you think.


You might stop losing for a week or two while your metabolism adjusts, as right now your metabolic rate is probably much lower than it should be. If this concerns you, don't jump up a full level and instead just add a few extra calories from good fats instead and keep increasing until your weight loss slows down to 1lb/week. Do things slowly... the body doesn't like major shocks like suddenly adding or reducing 500 calories each day.



> Ive never exsperianced this before. I think ive just hit my body so hard with weights and diet over last 12 weeks its had enough, is that possable


You have to periodise your training. NOBODY on ANY routine can keep giving it 100% continually without overtraining. You MUST periodise. ALL good routines and all the top lifters (who aren't loading themselves with **** loads of drugs) are periodising. It may sound counterproductive to spend 2-3 weeks at sub-maximal weights at the start of a cycling period, but it works.

You also have to realise that you MAY be overtraining (it honestly sounds like you are). For one thing, while what you're doing now may have worked real nice when you were 25 and on lots of gear with a bulking diet, you're now older (which usually, but not always, means even less recovery ability) and are on a cutting diet.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

winger said:


> I am loosing 1 pound a week and all my lifts are still up. 2 pounds a week and I dont think I can get stronger. At best I would hope I maintained my lifts, but that better be a perfect diet.
> 
> Stick or drop weights? Always lift. If you are going to drop anything drop the dnp!  Weights are the best fat burner there is. You get to burn fat and sculpt the body. Every one of Bigs posts are spot on. This stuff is not rocket science trust me. If you are getting weaker you are eather not getting enough sleep or over training, or your diet is sh1t. You are doing Diatia so the diet is cool. I think you need to do less in the gym and drop the cardio if you are doing cardio. You dont need it with the dnp.
> 
> I train 5-6 days with weights for 17 minutes heavy. I know everybody is different, but this works for me.


Bump this! Awesome post and solid advice.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

on dnp you loose most of the weight afterward.. ask pscarb

Before - I said your total weightloss after 4 weeks total before! Think about it, dnp shutdown thyroid but it super rebounds afterward and you strip the fluids... you usually can get a total loss for the four weeks but it will be simular to what you could get with what you did with your diet... or a pound or two more. DNP works if used at the right time, your bodyfat was too high IMO

Try weighing in only once every two weeks, I think the averaging is best anyway.

One system I used with women is I would weigh them weekly but average this week and last together, that way we got a more average result and better accuracy.

cheers

holiday is nice LOL

back soon


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Bump the last two posts.  ............lol. One was mine.......well sorda.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

Ok so basically ive got to step back and start again, when i say drop the weights i didnt mean stop lifting i meant lower the weight i was lifting winger.

This is how i train currently, like big says i am going to have to admit i cant train like i did when i was 25 so training advice welcome but this is also where problems arise because i value all your opinions but most of you do things different so this ends up confusing. If i list my exact training routine below which i enjoy then maybe if we use this as a bases and adjust it as you lot think best. If i have to totally scrap this way of training then so be it but im an old school trainer and this is all i know.

I HAVE ALLWAYS BEEN A BELEIVER THAT YOU PICK ONLY 3 EXERCISES PER BODY PART FOR A MAX OF 6-8 REPS TO BUILD SIZE. EACH WORKOUT IS 40 MINUTES LONG

Mondays (CHEST & TRICEPS)

3 x 8 Bench press

3 x 8 Incline bench press

3 x 8 dumbell flyers

3 x 8 tricep exstensions

3 x 8 overhead dumbell extensions

3 x 8 dumbell kick backs

Tuesdays(CARDIO)

30 minute stationary cycle

Wednesdays(BACK & LEGS)

3 x 8 lat pulldowns

3 x 8 seated rows

3 x 8 bent over dumbell rows

3 x 8 squats

3 x 8 leg exstensions

1 x failure calf raises

Thursday(CARDIO)

30 minute stationary

Fridays(SHOULDERS & BICEPS

3 X 8 shoulder press

3 x 8 dumbell front raises

3 x 8 dumbell side raises

3 x 8 dumbell bent over rear raises

3 x 8 ez bar bicep curls

3 x 8 standing dumbell curls

3 x 8 seated hammer curls

When i was younger and studied books and magazines ect: this is what the routines used to look like and were used by the pros, this worked for me back then but im sure you lot will rip it all apart 

ALL LIFTS ARE USING MAX WEIGHT POSSABLE


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

ChefX said:


> cheers
> 
> holiday is nice LOL
> 
> back soon


*LUCKY GIT, SNOWING HERE *


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

big said:


> You also have to realise that you MAY be overtraining (it honestly sounds like you are). For one thing, while what you're doing now may have worked real nice when you were 25 and on lots of gear with a bulking diet, you're now older (which usually, but not always, means even less recovery ability) and are on a cutting diet.


This is probably the case here. :beer:


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

TYSON said:


> When i was younger and studied books and magazines ect: this is what the routines used to look like and were used by the pros, this worked for me back then but im sure you lot will rip it all apart


Sure, these are the kind of routines supposedly used by the pros - guys with amazing genetics, amazing recovery ability and bucket-loads of drugs. Many sleep 10-12 hours a day, plus naps, and can guarantee to get huge quantities of protein every 2 hours, and can afford to run gross amounts of drugs like GH and test almost constantly. This is their life 24/7 - many don't have day jobs.

These are also the kind of routines that is the sole reason why the drop-out rate of bodybuilding is about 99%. THEY DON'T WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE!

For the vast majority of people doing that kind of training will lead to overtraining after a period of time and little or no progress.

Which books and magazines were you reading? The routine sounds like one right out of flex - a magazine that WANTS to keep you small so that you keep buying their magazine! Get yourself a proper no-nonsense book like Beyond Brawn and learn how to train yourself properly.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

TYSON said:



> Mondays (CHEST & TRICEPS)
> 
> 3 x 8 Bench press
> 
> ...


I like this routine.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

Well can you modifiy my workout or do i just scrap it, and where do i get this book from, but more importantly is it worth getting


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

winger said:


> I like this routine.


If that is a true comment then this is my point, who the bloody hell is right


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

TYSON said:


> If that is a true comment then this is my point, who the bloody hell is right


If that routine is working for you, he is right.

If that routine is NOT working for you, I am right.

Only you know if it's working for you, but from what you've said about your recent progress, I don't think it is at all.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

ok but has my progress suffered because ive gone for weight rather than feeling the muscle work. its hard to say if its working because as im cutting my measurements go up and down if you know what i mean. HOW DO I KNOW THIS IS NOT WORKING REALISTICALLY


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

TYSON said:


> ok but has my progress suffered because ive gone for weight rather than feeling the muscle work. its hard to say if its working because as im cutting my measurements go up and down if you know what i mean. HOW DO I KNOW THIS IS NOT WORKING REALISTICALLY


In my opinion, if you cannot increase your strength regardless of whether you're cutting or bulking, then it is not working for you.

If your weights are going up (under 100% strict form), it's working. If they're not, then it's not. Progressive resistance is the key. This is the case whether you're going for max weights or whether you're going for "feel" (whatever that means).

If in doubt, do LESS, not more.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

HOW CAN I EXPLAIN IT.....when i started back on weights i started light so not to injure myself, while exercising i could feel lets say my arms burning and pumping with blood, this was the case for my whole body as i gradually raised the weights, but i got so into adding weight as a proiraty that i seem to be lifting the weight but not feeling the muscles lifting the weight as before. DOES THAT MAKE IT CLEARER IM NOT SURE HOW BEST TO DESCRIBE IT. thats why my question was on another thread is the weight more inportant than lets say a lesser weight but feeling that you are working the muscles.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

That's down to personal preference, as long as your form is strict and you're progressively loading your weights. The key is progressive resistance.

If you're "feeling" the same weight week in and week out, you're going to end up being the same size.

Similarly if you're using heavy weights at the expense of form, you're just going to hurt yourself.

Keep form TIGHT and lift progressively heavier weights during a training cycle. If you cannot do that, then something (routine, diet or rest) is wrong.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

Ok then lets say i drop some kgs and start again, with very strict form. What i normally do is if i find i can do 3 x 8 reps very strict and fairly comfortable, i would add 1/2 a kilo next time. If i find this slightly harder i will do this for a few weeks until it feels comfortable then add again and so on. IS THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND IF SO WOULD THE WORKOUT I LISTED ABOVE BE OK AS I DO THINK THIS IS A GREAT WORKOUT.

What i have been doing recently is as described but slightly coming off form and getting carried away with adding weights, would this be my problem do you think because as i have kept adding weight without form maybe this has burnt me out or as you call it over trained my body.

Just out of curiosity you say you should be able to add weight each time you train  i assume this is a figure of speech and not meant as if i added 1/2 a kilo each week until next xmas i would be able to to lift my car lol do you see what i mean. Do you mean you should aim to lift heavier each time rather than maybe actaully doing it.

SORRY FOR SO MANY QUESTIONS BUT I THINK THATS ABOUT IT


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

TYSON said:


> Ok then lets say i drop some kgs and start again, with very strict form. What i normally do is if i find i can do 3 x 8 reps very strict and fairly comfortable, i would add 1/2 a kilo next time. If i find this slightly harder i will do this for a few weeks until it feels comfortable then add again and so on. IS THIS THE RIGHT WAY AND IF SO WOULD THE WORKOUT I LISTED ABOVE BE OK AS I DO THINK THIS IS A GREAT WORKOUT.


Yes - that is the right way to do it. Cycle your training like this and keep form strict. I don't think the routine is good personally, but if you like it and can gain on it, doing the periodising that you mention will work wonders for you.



> Just out of curiosity you say you should be able to add weight each time you train  i assume this is a figure of speech and not meant as if i added 1/2 a kilo each week until next xmas i would be able to to lift my car lol do you see what i mean. Do you mean you should aim to lift heavier each time rather than maybe actaully doing it.


No it's not a figure of speech. You should plan your training cycles to be adding weight during each cycle constantly. It may only be 0.5kg to each lift (or it may be as much as 2kg) - but those little amounts add up. Of course you cannot add 0.5kg every week forever - but when you stall it's time to start with a new training cycle with different exercises.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

THANKS BIG, I THINK WE GOT THEIR IN THE END :bounce:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Very nice Big.


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## ChefX (Jan 10, 2005)

how I do it (IMO only and just to give you ideas before the book)

each day... cardio and dumbbell clean and presses

I raise the weight each day and each week I lower it, so that the last day of each week is slightly higher than the prvious, result is monster one arm clean and presses over a long time

the regular rotoutine is simular I raise the weight each wek but every month I reset or step back just peaking the last week or two at most

every 12 weeks I take one entire week off all training except walking

I retest my 5 rep max for the next 12 weeks then and start over

step forward 4 steps back 3 do that 3 times take a break then test, repeat

LOL


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

Im glad you say you take a week off, ive been training none stop for 3 months now and have come down with a chest infection so i also will take a week off which i hope will not be a bad thing. This will give me time to re value my workout and start a fresh again next monday. I have purchased BRAWN and will have a look at some routines in their


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