# Lower back pain and seated leg curls



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

I have suffered for a few years now with bottom 3 vertibrae in my back:cursing:, i have to go to Chyro a few times every 6 to 8 weeks, thing is, last legs workout I squatted (very very strict) for 4 sets of 6 (trying to add size) and all felt good,although back had been aching for a week or two previous, anyways I go do leg extensions then onto seated leg curl, felt back pain on seated leg curl which actually got me thinking that this is the problem exercise and not the squat as I've been thinking for ages. When I go heavy or light on this it does seem to pull my back out, so what i'm after is your views on the above and ideas of other exercises that i can use for my hammys? I don't think straight leg dl's would be possible although i may try next legs day, I don't do heavy dl's as this actually is very painful, do a lot of hypers and reversed hypers on big ball for lower back. :beer:guys


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

anyone done decent strength programme following back injury/probs and gained?


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## Nozza (Oct 2, 2008)

tel3563 said:


> I have suffered for a few years now with bottom 3 vertibrae in my back:cursing:, i have to go to Chyro a few times every 6 to 8 weeks, thing is, last legs workout I squatted (very very strict) for 4 sets of 6 (trying to add size) and all felt good,although back had been aching for a week or two previous, anyways I go do leg extensions then onto seated leg curl, felt back pain on seated leg curl which actually got me thinking that this is the problem exercise and not the squat as I've been thinking for ages. When I go heavy or light on this it does seem to pull my back out, so what i'm after is your views on the above and ideas of other exercises that i can use for my hammys? I don't think straight leg dl's would be possible although i may try next legs day, I don't do heavy dl's as this actually is very painful, do a lot of hypers and reversed hypers on big ball for lower back. :beer:guys


If you have to keep going to the Chiro then he's not really helping is he?

You clearly have problems that require more guy cracking you back into shape. You might want to check in the so-called science of Chiropractic. You might be surprised, and not in a good way. Nobody who is free from problems like: muscle weaknesses, static core stability weakness, dynamic stability problems, muscle tightness, imbalances, inflexibility, activation problems, poor movement schooling, poor hip-hinge/lumbar flexion seperation etc etc needs to go to a bone cracker on a frequent basis. Until you address the underlying causes you are unlikely to get better, unless you stumble upon something by accident.

There are lots of reasons your back might be hurting. You should stop doing any exercise that hurt you. You probably need to be doing some exercises to get other muscles firing at the right time, most obviously your glutes by the sound of things. You probably have some core stability issues.

Do yourself a favour and buy Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance my Prof. Stuart McGill. It's designed for exactly your sort of scenario. You'll learn about

I'd also suggest getting your **** down to a decent physio/trainer with specific experience of this sort of thing to find out what is really happening with your body. They are not easy to find but a call around a couple of decent sports clubs (like pro rugby club, high level athletics club etc) should net someone who understands the subject in terms of sporting activity, which is what you want. Ask them about their experience. Ask them if they do movement screens and things like that.

After a time dealing with an injury your body will have adapted to it and you'll need to undo those adaptions. Training with them in place is likely to merely reinforce problems rather than sort them out. That last think you need is really strong muscles creating a damaging force at the wrong time. It can be a lot worse than if you'd not trained at all.

I suffered for more than 10 years before I worked this sh*t out! Now I need to take my own advice and get this shoulder looked at! :thumb:


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Cheers Nozza, I have seen a 2 professional sports physios, a deep muscle acupuncturist(very very very painful), a normal acupuncturist, a chinese acupuncturist (flaming needles), 2 chiros, rieke (very strange), umpteen so called specialists and tbh none of them have put the finger on the button, over active sporting life(footy, ma, boxing) + Bricklaying for 25 years = bad back.

I go to the bone cracker when it gets really bad and he relieves it, no cure, just gotta get on with it which is what i try to do, tbh i feel so much better after a workout, more than any other time so can't all be bad mate, thanks anyway:thumbup1:


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## Nozza (Oct 2, 2008)

Acupuncture never passes a properly controlled trial for anything useful. Reiki - hippy bullsh*t.

Get the McGill book - seriously you will thank me for it.


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## phys sam (Jan 11, 2008)

Nozza,

can you tell me what randomised controlled trials McGill's rehab ideas have been put through with symptomatic pt's?

tel - The quad/ham curl machines the could be affecting your back pain in a number of different ways.

Two obvious ones are :

that extending your knees is having an effect on your lumbar spine. For me with tight hamstrings, that means at end range knee extension, my lumbar spine is likely to be pulled into lumbar flexion and posterior pelvic tilt. This is what physio's might call a lumbar stability problem. Rehab would involve lumbar flexion dissociation exercises and soft tissue lengthening techniques (hams etc)

second is that as well as stretching hammies, you are also putting a significant stretch on your sciatic nerves. While this is fine in people with no pathology. In people with disc degeneration (lumbar spondylosis, worn discs, narrowed intervertebral foramen etc etc) and other lumbar pathologies, the sciatic nerve is often sensitised and reacts badly to repeated or heavily loaded stretches.

A therapist should be looking at you doing your exercises and assessing lumbar mobility, stability, muscle length (preferrably in exercise positions), neurodynamics etc etc. With all the necessary info they should be able to work out what is aggravating your back, why and what to do about it.....

Hopefully....


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

phys sam said:


> Nozza,
> 
> can you tell me what randomised controlled trials McGill's rehab ideas have been put through with symptomatic pt's?
> 
> ...


Had a bit of an accident on squats yesterday, was in cage and have been repping 140, on last rep of last set (4th set) lower back totally gave way, on my way down i was thinking oh sh1t you've really done it this time, when the bar hit the parallel protection bars i fell to the floor, it was quite scary but tbh I carried on with finishing legs and did 8 sets on shoulders, back is sore in a different place today (a little higher) but not as bad as I thought it would be, gonna start doing 20 reppers like THS said, should be able to give them a good work out that way and not fear collapsing. I've totally given up on the dl's as that was aggravating back way to much, also I'm finding it increasingly difficult to do hyper extensions, so the lower back is becoming a concern, I don't really know what exercises to do.

Regarding the physio stuff, is there a way I can go to docs and get them to reccommend a decent physio, the nhs physios are usually rubbish and money is getting tighter for private ones. Also, docs never got scans of my back or nothing, whats the best way to approach my doc to get some better treatment, waste of time going at the moment, sorry to go on a bit but its really annoying. :beer:


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## phys sam (Jan 11, 2008)

If you look for a charetered physio with postgraduate qualifications as well you should do ok. You could look for MSc MMACP which means they've done a postgrad MSc (usually part time whilst working) which was combined with MMACP (Member of the manipulative association of physiotherapists). This joining of two separate qualifications happened relatively recently so you should find someone up to date. It also means they've worked bloody hard to get it!!! 

There are I'm sure sport related MSc courses but I have no personal experience of them so couldn't recommend any in particular.


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

This is going to sound a bit silly, perhaps, but my first question regarding the pain you experience with the seated leg curls is - are you sitting in the machine properly? I've seen countless people slouched in it and sat so far forward that they're barely on it and have their upper back arched against the seat.


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