# Trying to lean bulk - is this food plan ok?



## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi guys

looking to do a lean bulk, how does this look please?


im 20% BF, 6ft and not a lot muscle mass and gluten free!!


*cals*



*protein*



*fat*



*carbs*


*Meal 1*

4 large eggs scrambled

296

24

20

2



2 Genius wheat-free seaded toast

204

2.5

6.5

30













*Meal 2*

120g chicken

165

37

2.5

0



mixed veg

25

3

0.5

0.5



60g brown rice

211

4

2

44



60g Sweet potato

51

2

0

24



20g mixed nuts

123

3

11

4













*Meal 3*

1 scoop Protein shake

184

20

1

23



120g chicken

165

37

2.5

0



mixed veg

25

3

0.5

0.5



60g brown rice

211

4

2

44



60g Sweet potato

51

2

0

24













*Meal 4*













120g chicken

165

37

2.5

0



mixed veg

25

3

0.5

0.5



60g brown rice

211

4

2

44



60g Sweet potato

51

2

0

24













*Meal 5*

200g chicken

276

62

4

0



mixed veg

25

3

0.5

0.5



60g brown rice

211

4

2

44



1 cup mashed potato

210

4

7.5

33













*Meal 6*

100g Greek Yoghurt and tbsp honey

121

11

0

24





























*3006*

*271.5*

*67.5*


*366*


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Fat gain will be determined by total calories and no one will be able to tell you if 3000 kcal is right for you or not. It's not obviously crazy but you'll have to try it and see. (Unless you have an idea of how much you normally eat without gaining weight?)

You could reduce protein to 0.8g per lb, and even that is likely to be more than you actually benefit from. (I'm assuming you aren't using steroids here, right?)

I would personally want much more variety in my diet than you have suggested, including some more enjoyable things. Calories will determine fat gain, not how much chicken and rice you eat.You also don't need to eat six meals per day if you don't want to.

Things you may want to consider adding to your diet from a general health point of view are oily fish, fruit and nuts.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks mate

i cant eat fruits and peanuts (gluten free!!) and yes no steroids at this stage

i was wondering if adding in super berry granola is a good idea? It has decent cals and carbs for a normal serving

and also a glass of milk at night time?

thanks


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> i cant eat fruits and peanuts (gluten free!!)


 I realise I'd missed you were already eating nuts, but surely fruit is gluten free? Plus of course the berries you suggest eating in granola are fruits...



> i was wondering if adding in super berry granola is a good idea? It has decent cals and carbs for a normal serving


 Yes, it's fine to have if you like it. Well, assuming you can find gluten free granola I guess! No single food should be off-limits as far as I'm concerned, it's a diet as a whole that you need to think of.



> and also a glass of milk at night time?


 Sure. I wouldn't make a big deal of this but FWIW the calcium RDA is 700 mg. Calcium absorption is a complicated matter though!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Cool thanks a lot mate. Its an alergy to some nuts and fruit. Berrys and almonds etc are fine

im about 200lbs and 6ft and want to put on some muscle without gear so wanted a good solid base of food


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Cool thanks a lot mate. Its an alergy to some nuts and fruit. Berrys and almonds etc are fine
> 
> im about 200lbs and 6ft and want to put on some muscle without gear so wanted a good solid base of food


 200 lbs is a decent weight. Have you considered maybe losing a bit of body fat? That would probably be the fastest way for you to look better (and bigger), although of course aesthetics may not be your priority. FWIW I think lean bulking tends to be easier when starting from lower body fat, as it's easier to gauge fat gain.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Yeah very true mate. Prob is i dont think i have too much muscle on me so if i diet down i will look like a bag of bones hence trying to pack some size on first really


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Yeah very true mate. Prob is i dont think i have too much muscle on me so if i diet down i will look like a bag of bones hence trying to pack some size on first really


 There are no rights and wrongs here - do whatever you're comfortable with. But if your 20% body fat estimate was anything like right I think you have rather more muscle that you're giving yourself credit for.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

ha, thanks mate... im not so sure but either way I need to get back to lifting.... 2 years out injured and now even 18kg dumbells for shoulders felt like 100kg's!!

with no steroids this may be a long path!!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi does 100g (cooked weight) of brown rice per portion sound ok?

i have this 4 x a day

also, is having 100g brown rice with my 8pm meal ok having those carbs late?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Hi does 100g (cooked weight) of brown rice per portion sound ok?
> 
> i have this 4 x a day
> 
> also, is having 100g brown rice with my 8pm meal ok having those carbs late?


 You could eat a bowl of rice immediately before getting into bed and it would make zero difference between eating this at lunchtime instead.

Worry about totals per day not what you eat when.

I'd get bored stupid eating brown rice four times per day. Do it if you WANT to but not because you feel you need to.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> You could eat a bowl of rice immediately before getting into bed and it would make zero difference between eating this at lunchtime instead.
> 
> Worry about totals per day not what you eat when.
> 
> I'd get bored stupid eating brown rice four times per day. Do it if you WANT to but not because you feel you need to.


 Thanks again mate. Not ideally

what i want to eat 4 times a day but i do want to grow and cant eat much else so will have to do i guess!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Just looked back through the thread. Why not have rice as your carb source for some meals and potato for others?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just looked back through the thread. Why not have rice as your carb source for some meals and potato for others?


 Hi mate

at the moment I have put in 100g cooked weight brown rice for 3 meals and then yeah using potatos opr baked potato for the 4th one.

also trying to find a decent protein shake that doesn't have wheat or soy is priving tricky but found a USN one that looks good.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Hi mate
> 
> at the moment I have put in 100g cooked weight brown rice for 3 meals and then yeah using potatos opr baked potato for the 4th one.
> 
> also trying to find a decent protein shake that doesn't have wheat or soy is priving tricky but found a USN one that looks good.


 This is another option:

http://www.theproteinworks.com/whey-protein-80-sf


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> This is another option:
> 
> http://www.theproteinworks.com/whey-protein-80-sf


 Thanks mate - I've not heard of them before - is it a decent protein brand do you know?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just looked back through the thread. Why not have rice as your carb source for some meals and potato for others?


 Hi there mate

quick question for you..... what im trying to do is turn my current weight into a better physique.... so essentially go from my weight now with little muscle mass and more BF, and turn it into a little bit more weight but lots more muscle and a drop in BF,.

should I be doing a lot of cv?

I read this blog from a guy called Jamie on here who did a 12 week natural transformation and he did a lot of cv and kept same weight and transformed his body


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Hi there mate
> 
> quick question for you..... what im trying to do is turn my current weight into a better physique.... so essentially go from my weight now with little muscle mass and more BF, and turn it into a little bit more weight but lots more muscle and a drop in BF,.
> 
> ...


 You can't turn fat into muscle.

Body fat is how your body stores energy. If you eat more calories than you use then the extra is stored as fat. If you eat less calories than you use then your body uses body fat to make up the short-fall. If you want to lose body fat you need to either eat fewer calories, use more through activity (e.g. weight training or cardio), or a combination of the two.

Gaining muscle is done by using weight training to stimulate growth. Someone new to training can usually do this whilst also losing some fat, particularly if they have fairly high body fat to start with. It becomes harder to do the leaner someone gets and the more muscle they've already gained from training, such that it generally becomes better to focus on either losing fat or gaining muscle at a particular time.

It is much easier to lose fat than gain muscle though. I could easily lose 1 lb of fat next week if I wanted to, but I couldn't gain 1 lb of muscle. This is why expecting to maintain the same weight is either unrealistic, or means you are losing fat at a much slower rate than you could if you wanted to. The exception to this is people who use steroids.

To answer your question more directly, some cardio is a good idea for general health, but it's use in terms of fat loss needs to be considered as above.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply mate

so for now i want to bulk up a fair bit so will stick to the weights and eating plan.

Would u say maybe 2-3 time a week do some cardio - uphill walking/hiit sprints etc to keep fat at bay?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Thanks very much for taking the time to reply mate
> 
> so for now i want to bulk up a fair bit so will stick to the weights and eating plan.
> 
> Would u say maybe 2-3 time a week do some cardio - uphill walking/hiit sprints etc to keep fat at bay?


 Keeping fat at bay is not a reason to do cardio. If you're focusing on gaining weight then it's role is primarily improving fitness.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

ok thanks mate - what I was trying to do is bulk up without it all going on my midrift area.

so the plan was to do say 3 x uphill walks a week to keep fit and not get overly fat while I try and put on some mass


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## Sub97 (Dec 6, 2012)

Personally, no matter how hard I track my calories I find it really hard to lean bulk. I've accepted this so I just bulk for 3-4 months, then cut for 6 weeks to take excess fat off.

Also, I wouldn't measure your rice cooked as it's not as accurate if you ask me (if you are tracking calories accurately I mean). I cook up 2-3 days worth of chicken and rice at a time. Usually use two saucepans and split the rice 300 grams (uncooked) in each. Depending on how long I cook each pan for an how much water I add they can come to totally different weights at the end - the extra weight has come from water which has nothing in it. So if I was going off cooked weight it wouldn't be accurate. Same with the chicken - uncooked it's 1.5kg, but by the time it's cooked sometimes that's come down to 1075 grams, sometime 1250 grams.

Good luck either way though mate.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> ok thanks mate - what I was trying to do is bulk up without it all going on my midrift area.
> 
> so the plan was to do say 3 x uphill walks a week to keep fit and not get overly fat while I try and put on some mass


 Sorry I tried to explain above but it is your net calorie intake that will determine if you gain fat or not. Cardio doesn't specifically target fat, it just uses some energy that will come from either food or body fat depending if you are eating more or less calories than you use.

Or to put it another way, doing for example 700 kcal worth of cardio per week will have the same effect on fat gain as eating 100 kcal less per day.

Doing cardio a couple of times per week is a good idea for general fitness though, which can also help gym performance.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

ok right I get you now, thanks.

so a couple of cardio sessions a week will do the body some good but wont mean the fat drops off the belly!! if anything, im guessing cardio will actual hamper the rate in which you bulk all over


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Thanks mate - I've not heard of them before - is it a decent protein brand do you know?


 I wrote a reply to this yesterday but scanning back through the thead it looks like it didn't send properly from my phone.

I've not seen any independent analysis of their products, but nor have I heard anything negative at all. I've used some of their products in the past and was happy with them, and generally I'd say they have a good reputation on this forum. The only reason I don't use them now is that they are a bit more expensive than Bulk Powders, but the latter don't sell the sort of product you are after.


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## Savage Lifter (Jul 14, 2016)

At 20% body fat, a "lean bulk" will not do you any good. At 20% body fat you probably don't know what it's like to cut so how do you know if you can actually cut the fat back down? Most of your gains will be fat and if you cannot cut down, you will be be carrying a lot of fat.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I wrote a reply to this yesterday but scanning back through the thead it looks like it didn't send properly from my phone.
> 
> I've not seen any independent analysis of their products, but nor have I heard anything negative at all. I've used some of their products in the past and was happy with them, and generally I'd say they have a good reputation on this forum. The only reason I don't use them now is that they are a bit more expensive than Bulk Powders, but the latter don't sell the sort of product you are after.


 Yeah thanks i ordered yesterday and it arrived today so will be trying it tomorro.

It used sunflower instead of soys lethicin which is what i needed. Cheers


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Savage Lifter said:


> At 20% body fat, a "lean bulk" will not do you any good. At 20% body fat you probably don't know what it's like to cut so how do you know if you can actually cut the fat back down? Most of your gains will be fat and if you cannot cut down, you will be be carrying a lot of fat.


 I have tried dieting and wasnt left lean just very skinny and 'gaunt'.

Ive never been ripped as such. I can usually build up like 10-15lbs bulking but then dont seem to hold size when i diet and end up losing all my size. Properly frustrating!!!

So i need to add some proper muscle on me. Hence the 3,300 ish cals a day and weight training 4-5 times a week to give it my best!


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## Savage Lifter (Jul 14, 2016)

Baggy said:


> I have tried dieting and wasnt left lean just very skinny and 'gaunt'.
> 
> Ive never been ripped as such. I can usually build up like 10-15lbs bulking but then dont seem to hold size when i diet and end up losing all my size. Properly frustrating!!!
> 
> So i need to add some proper muscle on me. Hence the 3,300 ish cals a day and weight training 4-5 times a week to give it my best!


 If you cannot hold muscle, doing another cycle is not the way to go about it, you will lose it all again and then cycle again and so on... You need to fix your diet and training.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Savage Lifter said:


> If you cannot hold muscle, doing another cycle is not the way to go about it, you will lose it all again and then cycle again and so on... You need to fix your diet and training.


 Yeah, to be honest this time I am doing it a lot more structured to hopefully get better results....

Got my eating plan nailed and sticking to it..... completely changed the way I train in the gym - form, technique, intensity etc.

I am a lot more focused and determined to make it work this time


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Savage Lifter said:


> If you cannot hold muscle, doing another cycle is not the way to go about it, you will lose it all again and then cycle again and so on... You need to fix your diet and training.


 I think the OP is natty, is that right Baggy? (No steroids.)


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> I have tried dieting and wasnt left lean just very skinny and 'gaunt'.
> 
> Ive never been ripped as such. I can usually build up like 10-15lbs bulking but then dont seem to hold size when i diet and end up losing all my size. Properly frustrating!!!
> 
> So i need to add some proper muscle on me. Hence the 3,300 ish cals a day and weight training 4-5 times a week to give it my best!


 If you lost the weight you gained then the honest truth is that this almost certainly means it was primarily fat. The fact you've gone through this process before does though make me think you'd probably be better cutting bit before trying to gain weight again. As I said before it is generally easier to lean bulk when you start off leaner, arrived tends to be easier to judge fat gain. I find body fat calipers can also be helpful for tracking smaller changes than using a mirror or photos, although the latter can work well too.

Training may well be an issue here too, with constantly pushing yourself to make progress in terms of weight or reps being the single most important factor. If you're not making progress you're not growing.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I think the OP is natty, is that right Baggy? (No steroids.)


 Yes correct. My plan was to add some peptides but to be honest the recent news of datbtrue has put me off a bit


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you lost the weight you gained then the honest truth is that this almost certainly means it was primarily fat. The fact you've gone through this process before does though make me think you'd probably be better cutting bit before trying to gain weight again. As I said before it is generally easier to lean bulk when you start off leaner, arrived tends to be easier to judge fat gain. I find body fat calipers can also be helpful for tracking smaller changes than using a mirror or photos, although the latter can work well too.
> 
> Training may well be an issue here too, with constantly pushing yourself to make progress in terms of weight or reps being the single most important factor. If you're not making progress you're not growing.


 Thanks again. This time im doing a weigh in same time every sat morning. Plus weekly pictures.

I am training much harder and with better technique.

I guess after all im just trying to bulk rather than lean bulk !!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Thanks again. This time im doing a weigh in same time every sat morning. Plus weekly pictures.
> 
> I am training much harder and with better technique.
> 
> I guess after all im just trying to bulk rather than lean bulk !!


 Bulking without trying to limit fat gain is a bad idea, for anyone.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

2.2 lbs added this week. 193.8 now


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> 2.2 lbs added this week. 193.8 now


 Unless you've suddenly increased the amount of food you've eaten a lot that is definitely too much to be smart I'm afraid. You won't be gaining 2.2 lbs of muscle in a week!


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Unless you've suddenly increased the amount of food you've eaten a lot that is definitely too much to be smart I'm afraid. You won't be gaining 2.2 lbs of muscle in a week!


 Hi mate no dont expect it to all be muscle but my aim is 2lbs a week to at least get back to the 210lbs i was a year ago. I need to fill out all over really so hoping 2lb is a steady gain.

Im tracking measurement of chest legs arms and waist too


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Hi mate no dont expect it to all be muscle but my aim is 2lbs a week to at least get back to the 210lbs i was a year ago. I need to fill out all over really so hoping 2lb is a steady gain.
> 
> Im tracking measurement of chest legs arms and waist too


 I honestly think you're making a mistake, but obviously do what makes you happy.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I honestly think you're making a mistake, but obviously do what makes you happy.


 Ok mate i appreciate your input. Can i ask your opinion on desired weight gain per week


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Ok mate i appreciate your input. Can i ask your opinion on desired weight gain per week


 I don't personally think target weight gains are helpful since how much muscle gain is possible can vary so much between individuals. In most cases I think target weight gains result in excessive fat gain. I'd aim for progress in the gym coupled with gradual weight gain without too much fat gain. Trying to optimise things so you gain zero fat is generally unrealistic, but if you are gaining a little fat you know you are eating enough to optimise growth. The more experienced you get the better you'll be at judging this, but as mentioned above it would be easier if you were leaner to begin with.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Fat gain will be determined by total calories and no one will be able to tell you if 3000 kcal is right for you or not. It's not obviously crazy but you'll have to try it and see. (Unless you have an idea of how much you normally eat without gaining weight?)
> 
> You could reduce protein to 0.8g per lb, and even that is likely to be more than you actually benefit from. (I'm assuming you aren't using steroids here, right?)
> 
> ...


 This, variety and flavour.

Also seems, dunno, just dull. Lol.

Try it and see. People need to grasp there is no "one thing" that works. This one may work for you, but you'll need to adjust and reassess later anyway, change again, the diet should always be getting adjusted and monitored.


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## Savage Lifter (Jul 14, 2016)

2lbs per month/.5 per week is good for a natty bulk


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks guys

i agree about weights in the gym

i have set out a training programme for sept which targets one muscle group per day. Upping the weights by 2.5kg-5kg a week where poss.

All of October im going onto the Blaha 5x5 stronglifts and then November onto some German volume training.

Maybe then back to this 1st months workout again in Dec and go round again.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

So first week of eating around 3300 cals i put on 2lbs. This week did usual 4 sesh gym, no cv and actually lost 0.4lbs. Gutted !!


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## Savage Lifter (Jul 14, 2016)

Baggy said:


> So first week of eating around 3300 cals i put on 2lbs. This week did usual 4 sesh gym, no cv and actually lost 0.4lbs. Gutted !!


 You shouldn't be gutted at all. 2 lbs per week is far too much. You should be aiming for 0.5lbs per week if you're actually trying to LEAN bulk. 2lbs per week is what a first aas cycle would get you lol and even then some would still be fat...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> So first week of eating around 3300 cals i put on 2lbs. This week did usual 4 sesh gym, no cv and actually lost 0.4lbs. Gutted !!


 If you weigh yourself every day for a while you'll see your weight could easily fluctuate by 0.4 lbs from one day to the next. It fluctuates due to differences in hydration and how much food is passing through your body.

As above 2 lb weight gain every week would be too fast anyway - have a look at 2 lbs of chicken and think if really believe you could gain that much muscle in just seven days? Although the first week you started to eat more food this will partly have been simply because there was more food passing through your body and so isn't necessarily a problem.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok cheers guys good to know.

I guess over the 2 weeks its still a 1.5lbs gain.

I will keep my head down in the gym and keep eating and see how it goes then thanks

still not adding in any peptides just yet. The news about Datbtrue and his forum kind of put me off trying peptides again for a while, although ive since been told that his illness is in noway connected to peptides


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Just wondering on the actual gym workouts.... I am currently doing amuscle group a day,

Mon - Back,

Tues - Chest & bi's

Wed - Legs

Thurs - Shoulders & tri's

Fri - All over

I am upping the weights slowly each month while keeping reps high-ish around 12, concentrating on form.

Am I best to stick with this for 2-3 months and then move onto a new plan like 5x5 stronglifts to mix the muscles up? Or maybe do 1 month one routine and swap to another for a month and so on?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Been eating well this week. However last 2 days stomach feels really bloated and big.

Not sure if i should add in a couple of 30min low intensity CV sesh's a week or drop the food down? Still want to gain just not all in the stomach!!!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Been eating well this week. However last 2 days stomach feels really bloated and big.
> 
> Not sure if i should add in a couple of 30min low intensity CV sesh's a week or drop the food down? Still want to gain just not all in the stomach!!!


 Feeling bloated and gaining body fat are two different things. Changing food choices can help with bloating e.g. less fibre, or less carbs, but more fat to keep calories the same.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Feeling bloated and gaining body fat are two different things. Changing food choices can help with bloating e.g. less fibre, or less carbs, but more fat to keep calories the same.


 Thanks mate. Stomach just fills fuller/rounder last couple of days. Im hoping its bloat and not fat !!!

maybe i'll dial out a few carbs for a week and see how it goes.

Is it actually possible to do a bulk without actually getting a bit fat along the way?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Is it actually possible to do a bulk without actually getting a bit fat along the way?


 Do me a favour and have a read back through this thread, as I'm pretty sure I'm just going to be repeating myself if I try to answer this.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Do me a favour and have a read back through this thread, as I'm pretty sure I'm just going to be repeating myself if I try to answer this.


 Spent some time tonight reading back thro all your posts on here mate. Thank u


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Added on 1lb in weight this week, small increase in size of arms, chest and legs (as in approx. 1/2 a cm)

Don't look any different in the mirror but will keep head down and work hard.

Am considering doing a month of 5x5 stronglifts this month to mix it up a bit and see if it triggers more muscle growth.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> small increase in size of arms, chest and legs (as in approx. 1/2 a cm)


 In what time period? You say that as if you don't think it's very much but that's pretty significant! It's certainly not a reason to change routines.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> In what time period? You say that as if you don't think it's not very much but that's pretty significant! It's certainly not a reason to change routines.


 That's over the space of 3-4 weeks of eating and training "properly" mate. Nice to hear its not as insignificant as I thought!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> That's over the space of 3-4 weeks of eating and training "properly" mate. Nice to hear its not as insignificant as I thought!


 Think of it this way, if you kept that up for a year that would be 6.5 cm which would be a pretty huge change. (I doubt you will achieve this I'm afraid but just trying to put it in context.)


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

ha, yeah good point. although im not actually very big so any increase is a welcome change

reason for mixing up the routines from one month to another was to stimulate further muscle growth as I read the muscles get very used to set workouts and stop working as hard....


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi @Ultrasonic quick question

a friend told me today that my protien is too high @ 300 when im 195lbs. (As u mentioned in post 1)

Feeling im carrying it a bit in midrift.

He said shoot for 200-250 protein max as too much protein will turn to fat

question is what do i replace with what as want to lower protein by at least 50 but keep cals at 3500


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> a friend told me today that my protien is too high @ 300 when im 195lbs. (As u mentioned in post 1)
> 
> Feeling im carrying it a bit in midrift.
> 
> ...


 Your friend is right that you're eating more protein than you can make use of (0.8 g per lb bodyweight is enough), although not that the excess will 'turn to fat'. Excess calories lead to fat gain, but as a physical process what the body will do in the first instance is store dietary fat as body fat. (If you really want to get into it, read this).

My guess from the rest of what you've posted is that you're probably eating a bit too much, so what I'd actually suggest is reducing protein to more like 200g but keep carbs and fat the same, and see how you get on.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks mate.

Im looking thro food plan but cant really see where i can get rid of 100 protein and keep cals at 3500

do u have any tips bud


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> Im looking thro food plan but cant really see where i can get rid of 100 protein and keep cals at 3500
> 
> do u have any tips bud


 My suggestion was to allow total calories to drop.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> My suggestion was to allow total calories to drop.


 Ah ok so literally cut out a thing or 2 off the food plan and hope the steady growth remains


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Ah ok so literally cut out a thing or 2 off the food plan and hope the steady growth remains


 I'm just going by your comment above about 'feeling you're carrying it in your midriff', and actually that a friend was commenting on something he thought could make you gain fat. This makes me think you're probably gaining a fair amount of fat right now, which is why my guess is that a reduction in total calories would be a good idea. As I'm sure I've said before, photos or calipers will help you judge this for yourself, although it would all be far easier if you were leaner to begin with.

You also seem to be steadily increasing calories for some reason. It was 3000 kcal at the start of the thread, then 3300 kcal, and now you're talking about 3500 kcal.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> I'm just going by your comment above about 'feeling you're carrying it in your midriff', and actually that a friend was commenting on something he thought could make you gain fat. This makes me think you're probably gaining a fair amount of fat right now, which is why my guess is that a reduction in total calories would be a good idea. As I'm sure I've said before, photos or calipers will help you judge this for yourself, although it would all be far easier if you were leaner to begin with.
> 
> You also seem to be steadily increasing calories for some reason. It was 3000 kcal at the start of the thread, then 3300 kcal, and now you're talking about 3500 kcal.


 Thanks again mate you've been really helpful, and patient!

yes I upped the diet a bit from the original plan to help grow a bit more and load up a few more cals and carbs and protein. seems I should adjust it back down a little bit and gauge for a couple of weeks.

im really enjoying the gym and have been really pushing for good form and upping the weights very slightly each week


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> yes I upped the diet a bit from the original plan to help grow a bit more


 If you consume more calories than your body can use then the excess is stored as body fat. Once this point is reached, extra calories don't increase muscle gain, just fat gain. Many, many people have made themselves fat chasing weight gain (including me when I first started) - I'm just trying to help you not make the same mistake  .


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you consume more calories than your body can use then the excess is stored as body fat. Once this point is reached, extra calories don't increase muscle gain, just fat gain. Many, many people have made themselves fat chasing weight gain (including me when I first started) - I'm just trying to help you not make the same mistake  .


 Thank u, I have a lot to learn and appreciate u taking the time out to give your opinion on it


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Christ, just reading that diet made me want to kill myself. Having to stick to it would actually tip me over the edge. I haven't read back through the thread but I assume @Ultrasonic has made you realise how unnecessarily fu**ing boring your plan was mate :lol:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Christ, just reading that diet made me want to kill myself. Having to stick to it would actually tip me over the edge. I haven't read back through the thread but I assume @Ultrasonic has made you realise how unnecessarily fu**ing boring your plan was mate :lol:


 Not since near the start of the thread I think as I've been worrying about bigger problems, but you're right of course  .


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Christ, just reading that diet made me want to kill myself. Having to stick to it would actually tip me over the edge. I haven't read back through the thread but I assume @Ultrasonic has made you realise how unnecessarily fu**ing boring your plan was mate :lol:


 In what way? What would u add/remove to make it more 'exciting'?

i cant eat wheat or soya by the way


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Baggy said:


> In what way? What would u add/remove to make it more 'exciting'?
> 
> i cant eat wheat or soya by the way


 A bit of whatever you like really. I'm not saying "Yeah bro, IIFYM, eat whatever s**t you like as long as it fits your macros!" but keeping it 100% "clean" (whatever TF that even means) is pointless tbh, your caloric intake and, to an extent, how much of those calories are coming from protein, is what determines how "lean" a bulk will be.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

ok cool thanks dude


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

6 weeks in so far and exactly 6lbs gained.

Was a little less than I originally planned, but after reading comments on here I am actually satisfied with that.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

6 weeks in so far and exactly 6lbs gained.

Was a little less than I originally planned, but after reading comments on here I am actually satisfied with that.


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