# Gym Routine and Diet



## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Hey guys,

My stats are.....aged 25, Height 6ft, Weight 88kg

Was doing a 3 day PPL but changed it too German Volume training just to mix things up:

*Monday - Chest and Back*

Flat Bench Press 10x10

Bent Over Rows 10x10

Incline Press 3x10

Pull ups 3x10

*Wednesday - Shoulders and Arms*

Shoulder Press 10x10

Barbell Curls 5x10

Skull Crushers/Dips 5x10

Side Lateral Raises 3x10

*Friday - Legs and Abs*

Squats 10x10

SLDL/Deadlift 10x10

Calf Raises 3x10

I am trying to slowly bulk up gaining minimum fat (Hence the slight increase in calories from maintenance)

Pretty much doing IIFYM....

*3000kcals*

196g Protein

80g Fats

Fibre I always hit between 40-50g per day and pretty have anything I want as long I dont go over 3000kcals and hit my Protein and fats

Could you let me know what you think.....

Thanks


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## dreco (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm same height and same weight (90kg now though) and my maintenance is 3500kcal so are you sure yours is 3000kcal? Seems low for some reason. Also, aim for 300g protein and 100-150g fats. A lean bulk will take ages and ages to do natty so I've opted for a dirty bulk (as advised by a power lifter friend).

I'm hitting 7000kcal at the moment, 350g protein, 750g carbs and 180g fat and I've put on 3 kilos in the last 3 weeks, even though I'm on holiday now and I'm not hitting my targets.

I'm getting 1400kcal from whole milk alone, a further 1000kcal from 4 muffins, and 2000kcal from home made shake, the rest is made up of meals of rice, chicken, greens and pizza.


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

rsd147 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My stats are.....aged 25, Height 6ft, Weight 88kg
> 
> ...


Don't do chest and back on the same day, far too much imo.

Change it to

Monday; back & shoulders

Wednesday: chest & arms

Friday: legs & abs

Remove your dead lifts from legs day and put them on back day, replace them with leg press. Also you notice I switched round Monday and Wednesday so that you legs get max time to recover as they're used heavily in deadlifts.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

rsd147 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My stats are.....aged 25, Height 6ft, Weight 88kg
> 
> ...


Where di you get the diet and routine from mate?


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

andyhuggins said:


> Where di you get the diet and routine from mate?


Just did it myself really mate. Done german volume before through bodybuilding.com but come up with this one through previous workouts and really wanted to include all compound lifts.

Diet I pretty much calculated through calculators and gradually gone up in calories through my last cut so sort of know the calories I need. Just making sure I get the required fibre, protein and fats from pretty clean foods and the rest to have what I want within reason


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Have you looked at any GVT threads?


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

andyhuggins said:


> Have you looked at any GVT threads?


Had a look at a few...you recommend any in particular?


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mogy said:


> Don't do chest and back on the same day, far too much imo.
> 
> Change it to
> 
> ...


Replace deadlifts with leg press...So squats and leg press? Hamstrings?

I know squats and leg press may get some work in for the hamstring but there is no direct work from LP and SQ


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

rsd147 said:


> Replace deadlifts with leg press...So squats and leg press? Hamstrings?
> 
> I know squats and leg press may get some work in for the hamstring but there is no direct work from LP and SQ


Throw leg curls in as well then.

I find going **** to ground on my squats works my hams pretty hard.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

You need to find a good simple programme and diet and stick to it for 6 months.


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

andyhuggins said:


> You need to find a good simple programme and diet and stick to it for 6 months.


Ive done this and seen alot of progress, been training for around 8 years but started getting into properley around 2-3 years ago with diet etc. Not competing yet but wouldn't mind having a bash in another year or so.

Just fancy having a proper go at GVT to see what results I could make. Recommend any?


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Looking atthe programmes on here its a 5 day cycle but I only have time to train 3 days a week. Anything people can recommend?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Mogy said:


> Don't do chest and back on the same day, far too much imo.
> 
> Change it to
> 
> ...


I've seen a few threads and i've found myself disagreeing with a lot of what you say.

May I ask about you experience and current level of lifting?

Chest and back together is common in GVT training and there are lots of established routines which include back and chest together.

Here is an example of one

http://www.simplyshredded.com/german-volume-training-a-new-look-at-an-old-way-to-build-mass-strength.html


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> I've seen a few threads and i've found myself disagreeing with a lot of what you say.
> 
> May I ask about you experience and current level of lifting?
> 
> ...


In the world of training, where so many things are subjective and dependant on the individual, why are you so surprised that someone has a differing opinion on methods to you? People post here looking for other poster's opinions and advice and that's what I give. Obviously I answer the questions with what works best for me in mind. So for example in this case, I personally like to train each muscle group very intensively and till complete failure on each exercise. So to do chest and back on the same day is too much for me.

Okay, here's some of my experience in training since you ask. I first started training when I was younger, for a number of years I was a climber and the sport of climbing ultimately revolves around strength. Technique is easy to learn. I began to compete, came first in my country, ranked top 10 in gb and competed with World Cup level climbers too. Trained and climbed with a number of gb coaches. After a number of years of this I got fed up. I began to coach others, mainly strength and conditioning for climbers. As time passed I became more and more interested in the strength and physique side of things, this ultimately lead me to weightlifting/bb whatever you want to call it. I've been focused on this for the last 3 years, training has been consistent and I learn wherever I can.

I don't know everything, and am always happy to listen to other peoples opinions. I always make an effort to help others, and I know for definite some people have benefited from me.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Mogy said:


> In the world of training, where so many things are subjective and dependant on the individual, why are you so surprised that someone has a differing opinion on methods to you? People post here looking for other poster's opinions and advice and that's what I give. Obviously I answer the questions with what works best for me in mind. So for example in this case, I personally like to train each muscle group very intensively and till complete failure on each exercise. So to do chest and back on the same day is too much for me.
> 
> Okay, here's some of my experience in training since you ask. I first started training when I was younger, for a number of years I was a climber and the sport of climbing ultimately revolves around strength. Technique is easy to learn. I began to compete, came first in my country, ranked top 10 in gb and competed with World Cup level climbers too. Trained and climbed with a number of fb coaches. After a number of years of this I got fed up. I began to coach others, mainly strength and conditioning for climbers. As time passed I became more and more interested in the strength and physique side of things, this ultimately lead me to weightlifting/bb whatever you want to call it. I've been focused on this for the last 3 years, training has been consistent and I learn wherever I can.
> 
> I don't know everything, and am always happy to listen to other peoples opinions. I always make an effort to help others, and I know for definite some people have benefited from me.


That's fine, that's why I asked for your experience. I've been in this situation and the person had a good 30%-50% on my lifts so there was certainly plenty of substance to what they are saying.

I think some posters need to be clearer in their advice and make sure it's given in context.

I think it's fine to tell people about alternatives that can help with their training. But telling people they shouldn't do something because it's not what they would do is not good advice. Such is the case with this one. Your alternative isn't a bad idea, but you are encouraging someone to stop doing a tried and tested (and excellent) routine from your preference, based on you limited exposure to the method. The same with the other one you posted there the guy was doing full body push/pull 3 times a week (a very good routine)

In lifting there is a lot of advice which becomes the norm because of dogma. some says it's good and the message is passed on and it eventually passes on by so many people it overrides any rationale why it's the norm.

So just to re-iterate, your suggestions aren't bad, but I think your breadth of understanding of other methods is leading you to dismiss some mighty fine things


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> That's fine, that's why I asked for your experience. I've been in this situation and the person had a good 30%-50% on my lifts so there was certainly plenty of substance to what they are saying.
> 
> I think some posters need to be clearer in their advice and make sure it's given in context.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree with a lot you're saying, and tbh I do probably suffer too much of a close minded approach. I'll try to make the context of my advice to people clearer in future.

Good points and respect where respect is due mate  .

~Mogy


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

rsd147 said:


> Looking atthe programmes on here its a 5 day cycle but I only have time to train 3 days a week. Anything people can recommend?


Bump


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

dreco said:


> I'm same height and same weight (90kg now though) and my maintenance is 3500kcal so are you sure yours is 3000kcal? Seems low for some reason. Also, aim for 300g protein and 100-150g fats. A lean bulk will take ages and ages to do natty so I've opted for a dirty bulk (as advised by a power lifter friend).
> 
> I'm hitting 7000kcal at the moment, 350g protein, 750g carbs and 180g fat and I've put on 3 kilos in the last 3 weeks, even though I'm on holiday now and I'm not hitting my targets.
> 
> I'm getting 1400kcal from whole milk alone, a further 1000kcal from 4 muffins, and 2000kcal from home made shake, the rest is made up of meals of rice, chicken, greens and pizza.


Dont talk rubbish LAD!!!

If you wish to chase the scales knock your self out and get fat but if you want proper muscle gains patience is a virtue you must have

Whats the point in getting fat to then have to lose it all and a good chance of losing the muscle you have worked hard to put on


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## dreco (Aug 22, 2013)

Each to their own. In a month of this I've noticed noticed that much fat deposit and my weight had gone up 4kg. My maintenance is high, on 3500kcal I wasn't gaining any weight. And there's no risk on losing muscle as I'm assisted. However the only reason for a dirty bulk is to try. Trial an error is what's best and I'm just curious as to what a dirty bulk does for me. Come April when I start blasting my diet will change upside down, so it's not like I'm dirty bulking forever.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

rsd147 said:


> Looking atthe programmes on here its a 5 day cycle but I only have time to train 3 days a week. Anything people can recommend?


what are your goals?

I don't see what is wrong with the plan you posted. I'd give it a whirl


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> what are your goals?
> 
> I don't see what is wrong with the plan you posted. I'd give it a whirl


I have been doing a 3 day PPL where I have mixed up rep ranges for a while e.g. 5x5 for main compound lifts and then 3-4x8-12 reps for isolations. My goal is gain some quality muscle, keeping my calories slightly above maintenance to not add fat.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

rsd147 said:


> I have been doing a 3 day PPL where I have mixed up rep ranges for a while e.g. 5x5 for main compound lifts and then 3-4x8-12 reps for isolations. My goal is gain some quality muscle, keeping my calories slightly above maintenance to not add fat.


I think the program you listed looks good. Don't underestimate how tough 10x 10 is because the first sets go up easy


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I think the program you listed looks good. Don't underestimate how tough 10x 10 is because the first sets go up easy


I did it a few years go now and it was tough.

I have worked out my 1rm and doing it at 60%. Started it on Monday and Im still aching. Shoulders and arms tonight....


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

rsd147 said:


> I did it a few years go now and it was tough.
> 
> I have worked out my 1rm and doing it at 60%. Started it on Monday and Im still aching. Shoulders and arms tonight....


How long did the workout take?

The only thing i would change is doing legs on a Wednesday instead of Friday.

I might try something similar after PCT


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> How long did the workout take?
> 
> The only thing i would change is doing legs on a Wednesday instead of Friday.
> 
> I might try something similar after PCT


I was thinking of swapping the workout days so its Legs and abs tonight 

I rested 1min in between sets, it take 40mins to complete


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

rsd147 said:


> I was thinking of swapping the workout days so its Legs and abs tonight
> 
> I rested 1min in between sets, it take 40mins to complete


nice. are you starting a log?


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> nice. are you starting a log?


I could do


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

rsd147 said:


> I could do


Well tag me in it if you do. I'd follow


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> I've seen a few threads and i've found myself disagreeing with a lot of what you say.
> 
> May I ask about you experience and current level of lifting?
> 
> ...


agreed i train chest and back together twice a week in my U/L routine. although granted in much lower volume than this:

Upper day 1 /2 : given chest exercise - 5 sets

given back exercise - 5 sets

given shoulder exercise - 2 sets


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

harryalmighty said:


> agreed i train chest and back together twice a week in my U/L routine. although granted in much lower volume than this:
> 
> Upper day 1 /2 : given chest exercise - 5 sets
> 
> ...


WHen I was Natty, Upper/lower was great for me


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> WHen I was Natty, Upper/lower was great for me


sorry to hijack OP.

yeah been on U/L for about 6 months and the gains in size and strength keep coming. it was your posts that convinced me to try a U/L split in the first place.

when did you start using AAS? thought you were still natty.

what kind of routine are you following now?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

harryalmighty said:


> sorry to hijack OP.
> 
> yeah been on U/L for about 6 months and the gains in size and strength keep coming. it was your posts that convinced me to try a U/L split in the first place.
> 
> ...


I did a mini TBOL cycle at the beginning of the year, then been on test E for 8 weeks.

I'm not really following an exact routine per say. somewhere between PPL, and a body part split routine, but similar in principles I've stuck to.

1) Power set /hit PR

2) Complimenting volume lift (increase overall load)

3) isolation or weak point training.

Intensity over volume. I did 100KG x 5 x 10 on the decline last week. I didn't need to do too many exercises after to make sure my chest was hit!


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