# Reggie's Cynostane Cycle - How to Run this compund to maximum effect



## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

I get a lot of questions about how to run Cynostane which, in my opinion, is probably the best prohormone out there for lean gains, and near zero sides but there is some misunderstanding on how best to run it so here is a log showing EXACTLY how I feel it is best used.

Pre-Cycle Stats

Weight 189lb

BF% 10

Strength

Last Squat Session 385lbs for 5 x 5

Last T-Bar Rows - 253lb for 4 x 5

Last Close Grip Bench - 264lb for 4 x 4

I will judge progress based, not so much on weight but overall body composition and relative strength since I am not using Cynostane to bulk up really (my training focus is geared towards relative strength).

Day 1-2

No training. Diet was around 350g of protein. Calories set at 10% above maintenance to support lean gains. I do not want to gain too much weight.

Day 3

Lower Body Session 1

I train lower body twice a week and do the same for upper body.

Squats - 396lbs 4 x 4

Standing Good Morning 264lbs 3 x 5

Steps Ups - 134lbs 2 x 5

Lying Hamstring Extensions - 41.5kg - 2 x 6

Abs - 2 sets

Notes: Strength felt better than I would have expected based on last week's session (where I squatted 385 for 5 x 5). Intra-workout recovery was good and the workout felt quite easy.

Nothing much more to report. Diet was exceptionally good today with around 400g of protein. That may seem high but it is crucial for any prohormone cycle when your body can increase the utilisation of protein considerably.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Day 4

Tue March 9

Notes - Sleep was absymal (just 2 hrs) so coming into today I had to use a few stims to keep my focus for work and they had the side effect of killing appetite. I have a pretty low setpoint and appetite usually shuts down with increased calories so this was not good. By the time I trained at tpm my diet consisted of 2 OH Yeah RTD's and 2 carnivor liquid vials. Felt dehydrated and pretty flat going in.

Upper Body Session

This is my workout

Close Grip Bench - 264lb - 5 x 4 (up 2 reps last set from last Tuesday)

Pullups - 88lbs - 3 x 4 (up 1 rep across all three sets but new gym so I think grip was more conducive to strength gains.

Seated Dumbell Press - 37.5kg - 6 reps, 4 reps

Some miscellaneous arms work I can't be bothered to record

I was very pleased today and I looked noticeably more pumped and full in the gym. The weights were the same but more volume than last week and the reps felt easier. More than anything, given it was only my 4th day on and my runup to the workout was as miserable as it gets, my muscles looked very good and full in the gym. One thing I will be doing is even though the weights felt much easier than expected I will delay weight increases for PCT. On cycle I am focusing on training volume so will add sets and reps as the weeks progress.

At this point I will point out that my personal results are likely to be superior to what most people will find namely because:

1. I respond easily to most anything

2. There will be some muscle memory from previous prohormone/AAS usage although that was a long time ago.

Of course, the basic training principles and focus on high protein (still got 400g protein today) will certainly aid me, as will my relatively higher skill level given my long training history.

Already, I am getting comments unsolicited so although I don't train for appearance it nevertheless shows results are apparent already.


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## IronFed (Dec 10, 2008)

I'll be watching this :thumbup1:

Quick question, would you say its best to use this pro-hormone at a fairly low bodyfat % (10-12%) to maximize lean gains?

Also, what PCT are you running, OTC or Nolva/Clomid?

cheers


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi Tezza

Sorry for the delay in getting back explained (abysmally at that) below

I will run whatever PCT product is available to hand from our warehouse. We have a bunch of supplements from the USA which always seem to have some with missing labels. I know we have some formex lying around doing nothign so probably just run that for a week or two. Having taken it before I ran maybe a 5 day PCT, went away on holiday and had no issues with maintaining size. It is easy to maintain gains since you do not suffer much suppression.

As for your question on lean gains I would say that rings true for all prohormones really. No need to use these compounds until you are already in good shape imo.

On to my log!

Yeah, I know, what happened to the updates since Day 4?!

Well, I was busy but a very quick recap without me getting bored is that strength and progression was good as was diet.

Key Lifts

*Day 6 *

Lower Body 2

Hang Power Snatches 154lbs 8 x 2

Day 6 Later in the evening

Played football for 1 hr.

*Day 8 Saturday*

Upper Body 2

Pendlay Rows 242lbs 4 x 4 (this will go up a lot as it is the first time I have performed in some time)

Sorry, will be consistent from now on!

*Day 10*

Lower Body

Ok, a repeat of last week's session so what did today offer?

Going in, it was a stressful day at work so I was in a bad mood and a little stressed which I find is counter-productive generally as this type of negative feelings tends to drain me of energy. I found myself yawning quite a bit during the workout which wasn't good I guess but otherwise I was fine.

*Squats 396lb 5 x 5 Reps*

*
*

*
Standing Good Mornings 264lbs 3 x 5 reps*

*
*

*
One Legged Deadlift - 2 sets assistance work. No chance to do step ups today.*

*
*

*
Lying Hamstring Extensions - 41.5kg 1 x 7 reps. 1 rep more than last week. Should have done two sets but the gym was closing so cut it short.*

*
*

*
Abs - See above. No time.*

Notes:

The only lift I am really focusing on whenever I train is a primary lift with everything else considered assistance. So long as my performance on my selected lift is improving then I know I am on track. Of course, for this session it is Squats (tomorrow will be Close Grip Bench Press, Thursday is Power Snatches from the Hang position, Friday is Barbell Rows).

Based on my squat performance progress is coming along very nicely.

Visually, the changes are not dramatic but of course, I am restricting my calorie and carbohydrate intake somewhat. NOTE - DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SIZE GAINS.

Remember everyone - my main goal is improved relative strength which means getting stronger and more explosive without gaining weight.

Roll on Tuesday!


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## ZidInferno (Aug 19, 2007)

Hi how tall are you and what dosage duration will you be running?


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Zid - I am about 6 1/2 inch. Dosage will be 30mg but considering lowering to 20mg because I am gaining more mass than I want as I outline below.

Okay writing this on day 12. Late again

Looking quite a lot bigger now which is annoying in a way since it means I am eating too much at Nando's and having too many shakes! Lol, anyway look quite a lot bigger.

First the numbers:

Close Grip Bench - 264lb - 1 x 5, 4 x 4 (up 1 rep but see notes at bottom)

Pullups - 88lbs - 1 x 5 2 x 4 (Same weight. 1 rep more on 1st set)

Incline Dumbell Press - 101lbs - 2 x 6 (new exercise)

Incline Curls 26kg - 1 x6, 1 x 4

Notes:

Okay on paper on on screen I guess, it does not look so great. However, two major factors were responsible for this:

1. On Close Grip I was working with a narrower bar which from experience makes around 5kg difference in strength for me.

2. On pullups it was a wider grip.

These two issues were due to training in a different gym

Anyway, going forward we will see next week, but I am 100% sure next week, back to my normal gym, strength will be up a lot.

Day 12

Wednesday is an off day. Looking quite big now. Need to cut down on calories as I did not want to gain much muscle on this cycle. Everything else is good.

Away from strength, mood and sex drive is good and no issues with sleeping, spots, etc.

Day 13

Extremely busy with work. Doing 5 jobs at once now, and very hard. Basically it is 23.28PM and all I have eaten today is protein shakes, 1 protein bar and 1 carb recovery drink. Not ideal at all but just no time to have 1 min rest.

Lower Body Day 2

Hang Power Snatches 154lbs 8 x 2 (just noticed I wrote this as the figure for last week in error but checking my book I did 6 x 2 last week so 2 extra sets)

Speed Squats - 242lb - 6 x 2

No time for assistance work

Today is a speed day for my training as you can tell but no time for anything assistance. The goal for speed day is lifting explosively. This day will basically remain the same through time with the focus on increased bar speed. I find it helps improve strength on subsequent strength sessions (monday will be my strength session for legs)

After training (like 10 mins after!)...

Football 5 a side

This was really tough. A humid pitch and me just having trained legs. Naturally I am explosive with poor endurance and today was much as you would expect. Scored some nice goals though but spent much of the time gasping for breath and legs feeling dead from no carbs today and having just trained. Writing this now 1 hr after. Lets hope I feel okay in the morning.

Thinking of lowering dose to 20mg. Always react quickly to compounds and not trying to bulk up at all but it is quite noticeable now. I find, although no-one else has mentioned it in their logs, that my mood while good is more alpha male than normal. I would put that down to the fact that my natural demeanour is being enhanced by the cynostane. Not a concern but I do notice myself getting more impatient and reminding myself to chill out when someone annoys me (which in this industry happens a lot.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Zid - 6 1/2 inch and using 30mg but may cut down to 20mg in a day or so as I am gaining mass quite quick (not my intention):

Okay writing this on day 12. Late again

Looking quite a lot bigger now which is annoying in a way since it means I am eating too much at Nando's and having too many shakes! Lol, anyway look quite a lot bigger.

First the numbers:

Close Grip Bench - 264lb - 1 x 5, 4 x 4 (up 1 rep but see notes at bottom)

Pullups - 88lbs - 1 x 5 2 x 4 (Same weight. 1 rep more on 1st set)

Incline Dumbell Press - 101lbs - 2 x 6 (new exercise)

Incline Curls 26kg - 1 x6, 1 x 4

Notes:

Okay on paper on on screen I guess, it does not look so great. However, two major factors were responsible for this:

1. On Close Grip I was working with a narrower bar which from experience makes around 5kg difference in strength for me.

2. On pullups it was a wider grip.

These two issues were due to training in a different gym

Anyway, going forward we will see next week, but I am 100% sure next week, back to my normal gym, strength will be up a lot.

Day 12

Wednesday is an off day. Looking quite big now. Need to cut down on calories as I did not want to gain much muscle on this cycle. Everything else is good.

Away from strength, mood and sex drive is good and no issues with sleeping, spots, etc.

Day 13

Extremely busy with work. Doing 5 jobs at once now, and very hard. Basically it is 23.28PM and all I have eaten today is protein shakes, 1 protein bar and 1 carb recovery drink. Not ideal at all but just no time to have 1 min rest.

Lower Body Day 2

Hang Power Snatches 154lbs 8 x 2 (just noticed I wrote this as the figure for last week in error but checking my book I did 6 x 2 last week so 2 extra sets)

Speed Squats - 242lb - 6 x 2

No time for assistance work

Today is a speed day for my training as you can tell but no time for anything assistance. The goal for speed day is lifting explosively. This day will basically remain the same through time with the focus on increased bar speed. I find it helps improve strength on subsequent strength sessions (monday will be my strength session for legs)

After training (like 10 mins after!)...

Football 5 a side

This was really tough. A humid pitch and me just having trained legs. Naturally I am explosive with poor endurance and today was much as you would expect. Scored some nice goals though but spent much of the time gasping for breath and legs feeling dead from no carbs today and having just trained. Writing this now 1 hr after. Lets hope I feel okay in the morning.


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## Miike (Jun 11, 2009)

Following with interest mate


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Day 15

Today was a day I really could not be bothered to train. Got a busy day helping to move stock that is gonna mean staying awake too late and did not get much sleep (again!) last night.

One thing I added today was one scoop of cycle support with the cynostane since I have begun to notice my lower back feeling over pumped the last few days and this will help with that, plus with regulation liver and cardiovascular function.

Upper Body 2

Close Grip Bench - 176lb - 8 x 3 (speed reps done to improve RFD)

Barcell Rows - 250lb 4 x 5 (easy physically but mentally was feeling bored now!)

Incline Dumbell Presses 46kg - 2 x 7 (easy enough)

Incline Dumbell Curls 24kg - 1 x 8, 1 x 7 (staying a rep or too shy of failure)

Seated Dumbell Press 36kg - 2 x 8

Skullcrushers - 30kg - 2 x 15

Overall, felt unmotivated today but added weight plus 1 rep per set on rows very easily.

Weighed myself and up 5lb since the start of my cycle with some loss in bodyfat as well.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Commentary on my cycle so far

I thought it would be helpful to people to point out some things I have noticed to date which may help others when planning their cycle. I also want to answer questions about tailoring training and diet for a more bodybuilding orientated routine. This is a long post, so someone better read it!

General Thoughts after 15 days

I have noticed to date the following effects:

1. A fairly linear increase in body mass and appearance from day 1. With the dose a consistent 30mg from day 1 I hope people can see there is no particular need to ramp up doses high. Having said that everyone's response rate is different but err on the low side.

2. An absence of any negative effects. No spots, gyno, subdued mood, or fatigue. A general feeling of not being on anything except in moments when I have had cause to be annoyed or stressed where I can see a touch more aggression coming out even if I do not express it.

3. Increased libido. Not massively but it is generally higher.

4. A reduction in bodyfat without dieting is always good. Of course, gaining 5lb is unintentional and apart from the first week I do not think I have been eating that much. However, protein intake is probably about 400g a day. I like to go to 2g per pound of bodyweight on cycle at least.

5. Introduced cycle support today because of a persistent back pump for the last few days. I should have taken it before but laziness won that battle initially.

Training

As people can tell my training is unusual for the average UK Muscle member. My background is in speed/strength sports and it remains a training focus. I have been bigger in the past but never enjoyed it much. My ideal physique would be more like a 100m runner which is pretty much what I am built for (long legs and arms, short torso etc).

Over 15 years of reading assiduously I have been influenced by many of the leading minds in sports science and training and suffice it to say that I think just about everyone I see in commercial gyms has a very poor grasp of training fundamentals such as volume, intensity, frequency, CNS recovery, periodization etc etc. I will be adding articles on these topics in the coming months as well as adding books by those who have influenced me. Quite simply, I will say, that for most people, if your training is influenced by the average Pro Bodybuilder you are doomed to failure without copious drug usage and extraordinary genetics.

So, given my different goals versus those of the average bodybuilder how would I structure things if I was focused on mass for someone of intermediate training experience (of course, no-one in their first 3 years of training should go near any prohormone)?

First of all, I would look at what Cynostane will do to affect your hormonal environment which will help enhance muscle mass:

· Enhanced growth factor activity (GH, IGF-1, MGF et al.)

· Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)

· Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to sarcoplasmic ratio)

· Enhanced protein synthesis

· Enhanced amino acid recycling within muscle cells

· New myofiber formation

What does all this mean in layman's terms?

It means that you will get a much better response to training during a Cynostane cycle than you would if you were not taking it. Of course, this will account for a greater amount of muscle mass gained but how can we tweak training to improve gains further?

The typical gym lore is to lift as hard as possible at all times. Going on cynostane most people will look to take advantage of the increased muscle growth (not to mentioned heightened CNS activity) to push up the weight on the bar significantly and go for PB's.

This is a poor decision. Although you may well get great results on, I think there is a better way.

First, remember that when you go on the magnitude of your response to the training stimulus is elevated. On the other hand, going on androgens has not been shown to improve the rate at which cells repair themselves. This then implies that rather than focusing on linear increases in strength, increasing volume via extra reps or sets is a better strategy. Given that research has shown that muscles recover from the training stimulus within 48 hrs that would imply a frequency of training based on that fact.

Of course, we have to look at more than just how long it takes for muscles to recover and weigh in the fact that the CNS takes longer to recover. At the very least though, a frequency of training muscle groups twice a week while using Cynostane is a recommendation I would make.

How would we do that while fitting it into the typical bodybuilding routine of working one muscle group at a time? Well, I guess if you are determined you could initiate some type of double split routine but I find that a poor choice. To be honest I think training muscle groups in isolation is a relatively poor strategy which somehow became popular through the dominance of the Weider publishing group and their dissemination of the Weider principles. Passed down through the ages this has somehow become the norm for training.

I think when using Cynostane, or training naturally for that matter, a better choice is to work an upper and lower split, or, if you prefer, a push/pull split.

If it was me, and I was advising guys wanting to train for mass a typical routine would end up looking somewhat like the following:

Day 1

Squats 4 x 4-6

Romanian Deadlifts 3 x 8-10

Single Leg Squats 2 x 10-12

Hamstring Assistance 2 sets

Ab work

Day 2

Incline Bench Press 4 x 4-6

Chins 3 x 5

Shoulder Press 2 x 6-8

Rows 2 x 8-10

Skullcrusher 2 x 12-15

Curls - 2 sets

Day 3 and 4 would represent something similar to the days above but I would reverse the order to put deadlifts and rows before squats and chest work.

Those with higher volume tolerances and working with lower loads could adjust volume up and those with poorer recovery could adjust downwards.

Now, when you go on Cynostane I would adjust a routine such as that posted above to increase volume meaning if you are working with 4 sets of 5 for example on squats on monday, to first push it up to 6 reps per set, and then maybe add a set. Rather than pushing weight up.

By reserving weight increases for your PCT and also lowering training volume you will be able to take advantage of two effects:

1. The tapering effect of lowerng volume means, when you eliminate the fatigue from high volume work, your true strength potential can be expressed meaning increased strength post cycle.

2. By being able to add weight to the bar you can better maintain your muscle gains.

For thos guys who max out when they are on Cynostane (or any prohormone for that matter), why is that a bad thing?

Well unlike those who follow my advice above they will encounter two very disagreeable things:

1. Lowered testosterone post cycle and no cynostane to compensate. Even though all the logs indicate exceptional recovery during PCT the fact remains you will be in a situation where there are less circulating androgens in the body.

2. Because they have maxed out they have nowhere to go, and in an environment of lowered exercise tolerance due to coming off cynostane, and lowered testosterone what do you suppose they will encounter?

Of course, their strength will drop and faced with less weight on the bar you can be sure that the ability to maintain size will be compromised.

I hope that is of use to people here.

The take home message

Train every muscle group twice a week

Increase volume while on Cynostane and avoid training to failure. Unlike my training, aim for a higher rep range compared to my own workouts.

During PCT lower volume and tap into the reserves of strength you have by not maxing out on cycle.

Ensure you eat to gain. 20 cals per pound of bodyweight is not a bad start.


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## IronFed (Dec 10, 2008)

Nice post Reggie :thumbup1:

Looks like some solid advice. I like your approach to training, I always prefer training each bodypart 2 x per week, with less volume than a typical bb split and focusing on the compunds.

Looking forward to the upcoming articles


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Just saw the message now S_Tezza. Thanks for the feedback. Some more nuggets of wisdom below I hope

Cycle Summary

Okay, so I ran Cynostane for four weeks in the end and focused throughout on increasing volume (sets/reps) as opposed to intensity (weight on the bar).

The rest of week four above went according to plan and featured a slight reduction in volume on Thursday and Friday to ensure I was 100% primed going into PCT to increase intensity as it is extremely important when organising any training program that you do not simply hammer away at the weights pointlessly like I see 99% of the average gym goer doing. Instead, you should know that progress can never be linear and that stagnation and regression is the inevitable consequence of training hard all the time.

Of course, while on Cynostane I could get away with an increase in volume and still continue to improve but at some point as the volume continues to go up fatigue will accumulate and performance will drop.

So, the last thing I wanted going into PCT was to be knackered so my Thursday workout instead featured a 50% reduction in volume compared to the previous week and a small increase in weight. This will set me up for the neural patterns needed to lift heavy weights during PCT and ensure I am recovered when PCT begins.

One thing I will say with Cynostane is it is not a strong androgen so strength increases on it are going to come as a function of increased volume leading to extra muscle mass, rather than any potent CNS effect as is common with other prohormones. Of course, during PCT the transition to an intensification or peaking phase will allow for substantial increases in strength which will help to offset any loss in mass due to the removal of an external androgen (Cynostane).

Once we understand that this is the way to achieve strength gains on such an anabolic compound then it is fairly easy to ensure such gains are achieved.

Build your volume while on, taper just before PCT to ensure full fitness in PCT, then intensify in PCT to allow for strength gains to come through and act as a means to send a signal to your body that it shoudl hold on to the extra muscle gained while on.

Wash and repeat for future cycles.

Okay, enough of the theory. Here are the facts.

Thursday Session

Hand Snatches

Where I had been doign 8 sets of 3 the week before I switched it down to 6 sets of 1 ending with a bar weight of 80kg.

Friday - A general increase in reps across the workout compared to the prior week's workout.

Sat - Came off Cynostane

Sun - Offf

Monday (today)

For the first time in a couple of weeks I felt rested although a late night socialising with my friends was hardly a smart move on my part given I am in PCT now.

Anyway, worked today making sure you all get your orders made over Easter delivered promptly on Wednesday rather than dealing with a big backlog of orders on Tuesday which delays everyone's order. Unfortunately, while this is good for my customers it meant my gym was closed by the time I finished. Damn! I hate that. Luckily, I am a member of a gym in Halifax, as well as Leeds and the one in Halifax would remain open til 8.

PCT Routine

A quick word on my PCT plan.

Lean Xtreme 3 caps a day

Max Out 4 caps a day

Testabolan V2 4 caps a day

Formex 3 caps a day

Actually, although you can call the above a PCT plan I would just as much call it an independent cycle of its own since even on day 3 I feel fine. None of the usual symptoms of being in PCT are apparent such as low mood/libido, decreased recovery, fatigue, small balls etc.

I am quite interested in how the Max Out goes since I have been reading a lot about Arachidonic Acid lately and it does seem to have an awful lot of positive reviews behind it. In an ideal world I will not suffer any shortfalls in my progress during PCT and actually continue to excel in the next 6 weeks on this supplement stack (will drop formex after a couple weeks though).

Workout 1 Legs

Squats 416lb 4 x 4

Hamstring Extensions 41.5kg - 2 x 8

VERY easy today and augurs well. A 10kg increase and I felt I could have repeated last week's workout of 7x5. This was not down to anything I am taking imo. Rather, by tapering volume at the end of last week I came in fresh into PCT and after all the high volume work of my Cynostane cycle my body has overcompensated more than I would expect based on the muscle mass I am holding right now plus the strength reserves I felt today in my legs. An argument for periodization as much as anything.

Tomorrow is upper body.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

PCT Day 4

Feeling fine all day today. Not stressed at work which is good. Anyway, took a scoop of the new PreSurge Unleashed since I got a sample and the accent in PCT is strength increases. Otherwise just on my stack as usual:

Lean Xtreme 3 caps a day

Max Out 4 caps a day

Testabolan V2 4 caps a day

Formex 3 caps a day

Upper Body Day 1

Close Grip Bench 297lbs 1 x 3, 275lb 3 x 4

Chins 110lb 3 x 3

Incline Dumbell Press (angle increased) 50kg 1 x 6

Arm work - 1 set bis and tris. Too lazy to record.

Okay, so last Tuesday I did 264lb for 5 x 5 but today strength was way up. Again, I would put this down to usual effects of unloading after an accumulation phase. Miscalculated the weight on my first set of close grip bench as it was meant to be 275lb for 4 x 4 going in.

Chins - Up by 10kg. Last week I did 4 x 4 on 88lb.

Overall I am very happy with the strength gains recorded to date in PCT. It is actually feeling easier than I would expect which probably shows how tough the prior volume work was and the amount of muscle I will have gained on Cynostane.


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## Damien_Returns (Apr 7, 2010)

Reggie...

Just a quick hit.. i was wondering why you chose to run OTC PCT appose to some Nolva/Clomid? I am about to finish the SWOLE stack and was thinking about Cynostane.. i am thinking Cynostane with AI cycle support(this i was gna preload x2 servings a day for a week before i actually begin the Cynostane then 1 serving a day whilst on), fish oil, calcium and glucosomine on cycle.

PCT if i go OTC:

-Reversitol

-TBooster (bioforge or Max out)

-AX Lean FX

under the counter (UTC) PCT:

Nolva (could i combine this with a Tbooster)

clomid (maybe)

could you, or anyone else reading this, be kind enough to advice me on how to take either the OTC or UTC PCT? dosage, and timing and time after last pill of Cynostane etc...

Thanks in advance...

Peace..


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## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

Damien_Returns said:


> Reggie...
> 
> Just a quick hit.. i was wondering why you chose to run OTC PCT appose to some Nolva/Clomid? I am about to finish the SWOLE stack and was thinking about Cynostane.. i am thinking Cynostane with AI cycle support(this i was gna preload x2 servings a day for a week before i actually begin the Cynostane then 1 serving a day whilst on), fish oil, calcium and glucosomine on cycle.
> 
> ...


Im 13 days in on my cynostane and 1-t tren cycle, im wondering what to use for pct aswel, someone suggested reversitol and esto suppress (esto is meant to be one of the only real legal serms about equal to nolvadex)

Im might go down that route, I could get nolva and clomid but one its expensive and takes ages to come and 2 it would be worth seeing if reversitol and est suppress are ideal pct products


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## Damien_Returns (Apr 7, 2010)

ollie321 said:


> Im 13 days in on my cynostane and 1-t tren cycle, im wondering what to use for pct aswel, someone suggested reversitol and esto suppress (esto is meant to be one of the only real legal serms about equal to nolvadex)
> 
> Im might go down that route, I could get nolva and clomid but one its expensive and takes ages to come and 2 it would be worth seeing if reversitol and est suppress are ideal pct products


ollie321

yes iv heard about the esto suppress and there's also the new v2 reversitol available. I think I may down the route of UTC pct. They are proven methods of recovery. Maybe just Nolva then add a Tbooster in like wk 2-3? Any input on this?

How's your cycle going? Are you gaining well? any sides? What are you taking on cycle support wise?


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## ollie321 (Mar 29, 2010)

Damien_Returns said:


> ollie321
> 
> yes iv heard about the esto suppress and there's also the new v2 reversitol available. I think I may down the route of UTC pct. They are proven methods of recovery. Maybe just Nolva then add a Tbooster in like wk 2-3? Any input on this?
> 
> How's your cycle going? Are you gaining well? any sides? What are you taking on cycle support wise?


Yeah its going well im 13 days in gained about 6lbs dry gain, havent been in the gym for 3 days which sucks but got a realy bad cold, should be ok 2moro.

Im taking AI cycle support, seems to be doing the trick.

Sides-sleep wasnt great for first week but might have been down to the clocks changing dont know, def rise in BP.

Still dont know for pct finding cheap legit nolva is a problem.

Im going to run dbol 6 weeks next cycle maybe with 1 t-tren(Topical)


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Damien_Returns said:


> Reggie...
> 
> Just a quick hit.. i was wondering why you chose to run OTC PCT appose to some Nolva/Clomid? I am about to finish the SWOLE stack and was thinking about Cynostane.. i am thinking Cynostane with AI cycle support(this i was gna preload x2 servings a day for a week before i actually begin the Cynostane then 1 serving a day whilst on), fish oil, calcium and glucosomine on cycle.
> 
> ...


Damien - I only really check this when it comes to update time but to answer this I would say I do not like the eye toxicity issues with nolva and with at least one guy I know reporting permaneny eye damage my days of running SERM's are over.

With cynostane, I genuinely think OTC PCT is more than enough. I am now into day 8 of PCT and as you can see suffering ZERO adverse effects. If I am honest I felt fine on day 1 of PCT even so if I had no money for PCT I would not particularly sweat it at all with Cynostane.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

PCT Day 6

Lower Body Speed Day

Hang Power Snatches 165 6 x 2

Ham Pullthroughs - 2 sets

Not much to report. Weight up, reps and sets down. Felt good. After this session I played football which is done for fun of course although it certainly makes gaining on legs hard.

Saturday PCT Day 8

Upper Body - Without listing sets and reps I hit my targets but this was a lower volume, lower intensity session since I had another football match later.

Writing this at night tired after a footie game where I ran more than I would want and feeling quite sore. Hopefully strength does not dip on Monday but I fear it might.

The footie match went well for me personally, but my team lost. Lol, there was a time I would count that as a success but not any more!

Come Monday if my strength is consistent and not depleted from Football then I expect I have pretty much completed my goals for PCT and will come off formex later in the week since I feel fine already.


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## stolensocks01 (Nov 11, 2009)

ollie321 said:


> Yeah its going well im 13 days in gained about 6lbs dry gain, havent been in the gym for 3 days which sucks but got a realy bad cold, should be ok 2moro.
> 
> Im taking AI cycle support, seems to be doing the trick.
> 
> ...


I'm just over the 2 week mark myself gained 7lb so far another 3 week's to go i'm running it at 50mg ed and next to no side's for me. I definatly look and feel bigger good product reggie :thumb:


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## Damien_Returns (Apr 7, 2010)

stolensocks01 said:


> I'm just over the 2 week mark myself gained 7lb so far another 3 week's to go i'm running it at 50mg ed and next to no side's for me. I definatly look and feel bigger good product reggie :thumb:


The results you have got so far is that from the standard dose? 30mg ED?

How are you feelin on this stuff?.. I think its about time Reggie hooked me up..lol i was torn between Cynostane and APPNUT 'The One'... I think Cynostane has won my vote.. The feedback on it is pretty awesome, and we have the man Reggie himself poppin this stuff!!

Good to hear the progress man, let us know how its working for you.. Im tuned in for sure..

Peace


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## Damien_Returns (Apr 7, 2010)

predatorN said:


> Damien - I only really check this when it comes to update time but to answer this I would say I do not like the eye toxicity issues with nolva and with at least one guy I know reporting permaneny eye damage my days of running SERM's are over.
> 
> With cynostane, I genuinely think OTC PCT is more than enough. I am now into day 8 of PCT and as you can see suffering ZERO adverse effects. If I am honest I felt fine on day 1 of PCT even so if I had no money for PCT I would not particularly sweat it at all with Cynostane.


Reggie,

This is music to my ears.... your pushing all the right buttons!! I love ya sales techniques!! lol


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Not recommending any PCT with cyno if money is tight...lol, not the best sales technique perhaps but I guess if you do try that let us know. As for my log...

Day 10 of PCT

Lower Body

Squats 427lb - 5 x 3

Pullthroughs - 120kg 2 x 8

That was a brief session. Hopefully people see the theme without me emphasising it again about training during PCT. Anyway, strength up, technique good and given I played two 5 a side football games, one during the heat and humidity of sat afternoon I was very happy.

Day 11 PCT

Upper Body 1

Close Grip Bench 286lbs 5 x 3

Chins - 110lb 3 x 3

Incline DB Press 50kg 1 x 7

DB Curls 30kg 1 x 8r

Light Triceps work due to perenially sore elbow (also beginning to make pushing exercises harder than they should be).

I am lifting 10kg more on close grip bench than when on Cynostane and 15kg more on squats. This is a case of the mass gained during cynostane becoming more neuromuscularly efficient and allowing for continued strength gains even while I go through PCT.

Overall, I am very happy.

Thurs and Fri are speed workouts for me but next week we will step up the intensity again on my core exercises on Monday and Tuesday.

Any questions, feel free as always.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

i want to know who you play football for,what level?


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Got form said:


> i want to know who you play football for,what level?


It is just with friends.

I have always been talanted at sports but never took football seriously at any rate (my background is American Football).

Lol, having said that I do not take it seriously I had the right hump on today due to a foul which no-one accepted. Usually I take it easy but when someone does that I actually start playing much harder and the outcome tonight was a thrashing for the other team

We will probably enter a team in some local 5 a side tournaments etc as a company and try our arm. I am that competitive that anyone reading this who fancies a game needs to just let me know!

PCT Day 13

Hang Snatches 165lb 3 x 2, 170lb 3 x 2

Pullthroughs 264lb 2 x 9 reps

Added some weight on my final three sets. Felt easier than last week.

Played 5 a side football after. Was taking it easy til I got annoyed (see above)

At this point, I hope people can see what the principles guiding on cycle and post cycle training are.

Of course you would adjust sets and reps and exercise choice depending on your goals (I would not suggest replicating my workout to anyone interested in maximum mass gains for example).

The principles outlined in my cycle and PCT should be clear though. You will see that next week we will be reducing volume slightly and elevating intensity one last time in PCT before a transition into a recovery week which in turn will lead into another higher volume, accumulation cycle.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

PCT Day 14

Close Grip Bench 176lbg - 8 x 3

Barbell Rows 275lb 4 x 4

Incline DB Press 50kg 1 x 7


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

PCT Day 17

Okay, after today's workout I think I can safely say I have negotiated the critical period of PCT without suffering at all after my Cynostane cycle.

Lower Body

Squats 440lb 6 x 2

High Bench Step Ups 154 2 x 5

Pullthrough 264lb 2 x 10


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

PCT Day 18

Upper Body

Close Grip Bench 297lb 4 x 2, 1 x 1, 1 x 2

Pullups 110lb 3 x 3

Incline DB Presses 50kg 2 x 5

DB Curls 32.5kg 1 x 6

Skullkrushers 110lb 1 x 8

This was a tough day on the close grip bench. I mistimed the landing position on the 5th set so never had a shot on the 2nd rep. That is the problem with heavy lifting - technique is very important and I don't know if it was lack of concentration for a change. Got the final set though so 100% sure it would have been 6 x 2 with better focus and technique on set 5.

Quite impressed with my dumbell curls as well. Since I never really train my arms more than a set per workout I am not sure where I pulled that one out of.

The second half of the week I may either keep the intensity very high or else transition into an easy week. I will see how I feel but at this point I am just going to train as I normally would as I feel 100% recovered. In fact I am even feeling a bit aggressive from the testabolan no doubt plus quite pumped so all good.

I will be doing an accumulation cycle again shortly. It will be much like my last one but with slightly heavier weight. Considering I was on a prohormone last time, I am hopeful my work capacity will allow me to tolerate similar volumes and my supplementation regime pulls me through.

The goal right now is to keep in decent condition and get towards squatting around 400-410lb for 5 x 5. Somewhere around that will be pleasing.

Then possibly I may run another cycle later but probably not for some time yet.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

We will probably enter a team in some local 5 a side tournaments etc as a company and try our arm. I am that competitive that anyone reading this who fancies a game needs to just let me know!

ive got a few players that will give you a game :surrender:


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Drop me a PM. If you are local I will try to get some players together and make it happen cos win or lose I love a match. If we do play I am the guy who strolls around when he doeesn't have the ball lol.


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## predatorN (Mar 16, 2009)

Okay today I knew was going to be difficult as I was doing power snatches from the hang position and sciatica was an issue (had this on an off for a couple years now).

Anyway this was the actual workout:

Hang Snatches - 165lb x 2, 170lb 2 x ??, 165lb x 2, 165lb 4 x 3

1 set of pullthroughs 264lb 1 x 8

Okay this workout did not go according to plan. My body felt a little stiff at the start and the second set was a disaster because the bar was actually 172 1/2lb (I had a 5.5lb plate on one side and a 2.75lb plate the other side, duh!). I did not count that in the sets above.

My sets on 170 were ragged. Although I got 2 reps out they were ragged with poor technique and I would not usually count them. After that, I dropped back down to last week's weight and after a set of 2 actually pulled out 4 sets of 3 which is a PB with that weight.

Played football after.

The lesson here is if you are not 100% warmed up, and focused on speed strength exercises like the power snatch then you should wait to hit your groove before increasing the weight.

On a side note, mentally this was a tough workout due to the high set number and poor technique early on.

Today is Friday night and most likely I will have no chance to train Saturday as I am at the FIBO exhibition in Germany. Hopefully, I come back from there having made some good contacts for Predator Nutrition.


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## musio (Jan 25, 2008)

I was all geared up reading page by page and it stopped! Not sure if you can remember how it went pred?


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