# Times per week to train a muscle group for maximum hypertrophy...



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

For the past 15 odd years, I've pretty much been training each muscle group -- directly -- once per week. However, I keep reading -- that if all else is equal; calories, PEDs, etc -- training each muscle group twice per week is considered the "sweet spot" for maximum hypertrophy.

What are your thoughts / experiences?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/299378-on-cycle-training-each-body-part-once-vs-twice-per-week/?do=embed


----------



## bonacris (May 20, 2015)

Dark Prowler said:


> For the past 15 odd years, I've pretty much been training each muscle group -- directly -- once per week. However, I keep reading -- that if all else is equal; calories, PEDs, etc -- training each muscle group twice per week is considered the "sweet spot" for maximum hypertrophy.
> 
> What are your thoughts / experiences?


 It works better. But don't expect to be killing yourself with volume and expecting to recover. If you increase the frequency you have to lower the volume.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

bonacris said:


> It works better. But don't expect to be killing yourself with volume and expecting to recover. If you increase the frequency you have to lower the volume.


 i often just say to people if you normally do 12-15 sets for chest on a monday like a true bro then try splitting it into 6-7 sets 2x per week


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I would forget about using a week as a time scale. Train a muscle every so many days. A week as a time scale is irrelevant.


----------



## thewrongadvices (Apr 17, 2017)

Yes, volume will have to come down as frequency goes up. I'm currently once a week with higher volume, that's my preferred method, but I do switch it up from time to time. I can't do twice a week very long before I feel like I need longer rest again between sessions.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

I've changed over to PPL recently and try to do PPL rest PPL or something very similar as I do shifts and things obviously change from week to week.

Much prefer this and have started to see better results than I have from doing a traditional bro split training each muscle group once a week.

As said, try not to look at it in a time scale of a week, but more as in trying to train more frequently and not have specific days to hit a particular muscle group


----------



## Redser (Sep 7, 2016)

Pull/off /legs/push/ off............ Repeat

For example, instead of doing 4 exercise for shoulder and 4 for chest on push day once per week do 3 exercises for each muscle group per session, twice a week / or cycle if not within 7 day.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Frequency is king,

What I do,

Pull, Rest, push, rest, legs,rest, pull and so on

LISS on rest days for cardio health and recovery purpose


----------



## mmichael (Dec 7, 2014)

I posted a SOLID reponse on the thread above with Russian (toward the end of it) explaining the combination of: Volume, Freq, Muscle Growth

Even if u train twice a week in high volume and manage to rack in the calories to still put on MASS each day, it WILL be more like: Excess Fat + Muscle Recovery.

(Notice I didn't say muscle GROWTH, just enough to repair it, but not progress in size). That is why it MUST be low volume if u choose to do x2 Freq per week.

Cycle of high dose gear OR low dose gear, it's still not going to be enough.

I got stuck up thinking that fellows like Bostin Loyd were getting huge off training once PW and I tried it on low-moderate gear and the results were slow and s**t. The fact that they run so much g's of stuff and eat in a surplus is ALL that is needed (even with minimal efforts in the gym) to grow major size.. If that guy got his s**t together and did the above with high dosages he would blow up even more than he can imagine.

here is my PPL, PPL, Rest Split.. Take a look at the volume. I don't rush the sets. Do them slower and each to failure and overload the weight as I can or sets. This will make u grow great on solid gear and a surplus with proper sleep. (This is doable for the average gym goer too)

Monday & Thursday: Chest/Triceps/Front & Side Delts
Flat x3 4-12, Incline x2 6-12, Flies x2 8-15
Shoulder Press x3 10-15, Front x2 10-15, Sides x2 10-15
Dips x3 10-15, Tri x2 10-15, Bar x2 10-15

Tuesday & Friday: Back/Biceps & Forearms/ Traps & Rear Delts
Tbar x3 6-12, Rows x2 6-12, Wide Lat x3 6-12, Close Lat x2 6-12
Cable Rear x3 10-15, Shrugs x3 10-15
Ez x3 10-12, Cable Curls x2 10-12, Rev Cable Curls x2 15-20

Wednesday & Saturday: Legs & Abs
Ham Curl x3 6-10, Squats x4 6-12, Quad Ext x3 8-12
Calve Raise x3 15-20
Up x3 8-12, Low x3 8-12, Obl x3 8-12

Sun: Off

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Most Hardcore Routine for MAX gains would be more like this:

M: Chest AM & Triceps/Shoulders PM

T: Back AM & Traps/Rear Delts/Biceps PM

W: Quads/Calves AM & Hams/Abs PM

Same Style: PPL, PPL, Rest SUNDAY

This is what the Kuwait bodybuilders in O2 Gym are doing right now with their pharma grade gear, They might even be doing more in a mixture of DC Style x3 Freq Per Week (Which is about as hardcore as u can get for growth, really need a trainer/coach/gym partner to make it effective). Training volume & Freq is VERY important and lot of gear uses tend to forget about how it works and just shoot and think eating surplus is enough.

PS: The problem with a PPL split, is after a hour it might be time for the last exercises for the last muscle for ex: Shoulders... Ur shot from doing the other sets and the pump is dead, so if u split it up, u can get it done in shorter time with huge amount of energy to push the weights and gain the pumps. That mid day rest time is crucial and needs to be filled with lots of calories and naps lol


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

mmichael said:


> PS: The problem with a PPL split, is after a hour it might be time for the last exercises for the last muscle for ex: Shoulders... Ur shot from doing the other sets and the pump is dead, so if u split it up, u can get it done in shorter time with huge amount of energy to push the weights and gain the pumps. That mid day rest time is crucial and needs to be filled with lots of calories and naps lol


 The problem with people doing P/P/L, or Upper/Lower for that matter, is that they do far too many exercises and end up like you suggest above.

There's no need to do more than two exercises for any body part if you do them correctly. Thus a push day needs no more than 5 exercises, 2 chest, 2 shoulders and 1 tricep. My current Upper day has 2 back exercises, 2 chest exercises and 1 each for shoulders, bi's, and tri's.

Leg day would be Squats, GHR, and a couple of sets for calves. Anything else is a complete waste of time for 99% of trainers. and merely demonstrates they haven't trained the earlier exercises properly.


----------



## mmichael (Dec 7, 2014)

Mingster said:


> The problem with people doing P/P/L, or Upper/Lower for that matter, is that they do far too many exercises and end up like you suggest above.
> 
> There's no need to do more than two exercises for any body part if you do them correctly. Thus a push day needs no more than 5 exercises, 2 chest, 2 shoulders and 1 tricep. My current Upper day has 2 back exercises, 2 chest exercises and 1 each for shoulders, bi's, and tri's.
> 
> Leg day would be Squats, GHR, and a couple of sets for calves. Anything else is a complete waste of time for 99% of trainers. and merely demonstrates they haven't trained the earlier exercises properly.


 When I refer to trainers. I mean coaches for BB. They don't work out, they plan it out and help the bber. I am not talking gym personal trainers. Think of some 1 who trains phil health. It's a whole diff level there.

I think ur sets are a little steep. Then again maybe I'm not understanding them. 2 exercises for chest? So are they like 2-3 sets each? Then thats fine or u just doing 2 sets for chest lol. I would add a little more volume than that if that is the case.

Like my push day would be:

Chest 7 sets

shoulders: 7 sets

triceps: 7 sets

thats a fair amount to failure and I progress good.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

mmichael said:


> 2 exercises for chest? So are they like 2-3 sets each?


 You can do as many sets as it takes to achieve the required muscle stimulation. What I'm saying is that it shouldn't take 3 different presses and 3 different flyes to achieve this. One of each should be more than sufficient, so no need to burn out towards the end of a workout.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Mingster said:


> You can do as many sets as it takes to achieve the required muscle stimulation. What I'm saying is that it shouldn't take 3 different presses and 3 different flyes to achieve this. One of each should be more than sufficient, so no need to burn out towards the end of a workout.


 I agree to this. If you feel burn out in one session where frequency is your goal, after a certain time you would need a hell lot of motivation to hit the next session..

People are often carried over by the term muscle failure


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Mingster said:


> I would forget about using a week as a time scale. Train a muscle every so many days. A week as a time scale is irrelevant.


 Exactly! 4 days is about right for me.

I have tried every combination imaginable over the many years and found 4 days to be optimal for my training style, (high volume)

People spend too much time reading up on theories and studies than noting their own bodies response.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

One thought to consider is that the optimal training frequency might not be the same for all muscles.


----------



## bonacris (May 20, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> One thought to consider is that the optimal training frequency might not be the same for all muscles.


 curious to your thoughts on this? more or less for bigger body parts?


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

bonacris said:


> curious to your thoughts on this? more or less for bigger body parts?


 I've been reading a lot of Mike Israetel's stuff recently and he's broadly of the view that smaller muscles can be trained more frequently. This is partly on the basis of experience as a coach, but the logic he puts forward is that you can do some much more work/damage to larger muscles in a single session that it takes longer to recover. (I'm experimenting with following this advice at the moment but it's too early to really comment. In the past I've pretty much just trained everything with the same frequency.)

Here are a couple of example's from him, but you can do a Google search for other muscles (frequency is covered part way down each link):

https://renaissanceperiodization.com/quad-training-tips-hypertrophy/

https://renaissanceperiodization.com/bicep-training-tips-hypertrophy/


----------



## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

Mingster said:


> You can do as many sets as it takes to achieve the required muscle stimulation. What I'm saying is that it shouldn't take 3 different presses and 3 different flyes to achieve this. One of each should be more than sufficient, so no need to burn out towards the end of a workout.


 Mingster. Do you go to failure on all sets and exercises? On all days?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Oldnewb said:


> Mingster. Do you go to failure on all sets and exercises? On all days?


 Nope. None of the above. I might go to failure on the last set of an exercise, or use a technique such as drop sets or supersets, but my overall goal is to progress my lifting be it with weight increase, rep increase, overall volume, or less rest between sets.


----------



## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

As @Ultrasonic posted, Dr mike Israetel is a very knowledgeable guy and his thoughts on minimum effective volume (m.e.v) and maximum recoverable volume (m.r.v) are extremely interesting....and are something that i now incorporate in my own training.

To the op, i would definitely say experiment with increasing your frequency and volume (maybe not at the same time!) ....the name of the game is progression and we are all capable of doing more work over time.


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses, guys.

I've taken on a PPL routine since my original post, and have had a lot of people comment on me "blowing up" over this period. I've definitely noticed an increase in size -- especially in muscle groups that were lagging before -- but it is hard-going. I'm napping whenever I can! I also feel more "in touch" with my muscle groups these days, and can tell when they're ready to go again, more easily than I could before. It's almost they *want* me to train with more frequency now.

Anyway, can't really see myself going back to training one muscle group per week now, unless time permits nothing else.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dark Prowler said:


> Thanks for all the responses, guys.
> 
> I've taken on a PPL routine since my original post, and have had a lot of people comment on me "blowing up" over this period. I've definitely noticed an increase in size -- especially in muscle groups that were lagging before -- but it is hard-going. I'm napping whenever I can! I also feel more "in touch" with my muscle groups these days, and can tell when they're ready to go again, more easily than I could before. It's almost they *want* me to train with more frequency now.
> 
> Anyway, can't really see myself going back to training one muscle group per week now, unless time permits nothing else.


 How many workouts are you doing per week? Many would do a three day per week PPL routine but I'm guessing you're talking about switching to a higher frequency version?


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> How many workouts are you doing per week? Many would do a three day per week PPL routine but I'm guessing you're talking about switching to a higher frequency version?


 Six in total. I'm doing chest, anterior delts and triceps on Monday and Thursday. Back, traps, lateral delts, posterior delts, biceps and forearms on Tuesday and Friday. And quads, hams, glutes and calves on Wednesday and Saturday. Sometimes need to take Wednesday off due to work commitments. Otherwise, Sunday is my only day off.


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

I'll be starting this next week

LEGS

Squats

Sldl

Thrusters

Calves

PUSH

Bench

Flyes

Ohp

Side laterals

Dips

Rope Ext

PULL:

BB rows

Lat pulldown

Face-pulls

BB curls

Hammers

LEGS:

Squats

Split squats

Leg curls

Calves

PUSH:

Inc DB

Machine press

Arnies

Side laterals

Cgbp

Skulls

PULL:

DB rows

Chins

Rear delts

DB curls

Hammers

----

this will be over a 5day period.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> this will be over a 5day period.


 6 workouts over 5 days?


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Ultrasonic said:


> 6 workouts over 5 days?


 5 day week!

PPLPP

LPPLP

PLPPL

I don't train weekends


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm largely with @Mingster on this - generally you do far better by doing a limited number of movements but doing them as best you can than by doing a lot of exercises per session volume and therefore being forced to have a multiple body part split with a relatively low training frequency.

Being assisted does increase per session capacity, and there is definitely a difference between individuals for how much volume they can handle or need per session though.

Also, I think it's pretty clear that not every muscle has exactly the same capacity for volume, nor would exactly the same frequency be optimal for all muscles equally.

That said though, for most people, training the same muscle every 3-5 days with a small number of quality exercises with moderate volume (possibly doing slightly different volume per muscle group according to individual need) and intense training is the best general formula for training for hypertrophy.


----------



## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

M Chest

T Biceps

W Chest

T Biceps

F Chest

S Biceps

S Rest

Repeat


----------



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

dtlv said:


> I'm largely with @Mingster on this - generally you do far better by doing a limited number of movements but doing them as best you can than by doing a lot of exercises per session volume and therefore being forced to have a multiple body part split with a relatively low training frequency.
> 
> Being assisted does increase per session capacity, and there is definitely a difference between individuals for how much volume they can handle or need per session though.
> 
> ...


 Define 'intense' training?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Sway12 said:


> Define 'intense' training?


 Going beyond your comfort zone.


----------



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Mingster said:


> Going beyond your comfort zone.


 Too vague. What do you mean? Trying to add weight to the bar? What?

I've been pushing my comfort zone for 3 years in the gym and have made very lacklustre gains. I can't think of a single session I've had where I didn't walk out absolutely drained and knowing I had no more strength to lift a barbell / DB for even 1-2 more reps. Yet nothing has really changed.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Sway12 said:


> Too vague. What do you mean? Trying to add weight to the bar? What?
> 
> I've been pushing my comfort zone for 3 years in the gym and have made very lacklustre gains. I can't think of a single session I've had where I didn't walk out absolutely drained and knowing I had no more strength to lift a barbell / DB for even 1-2 more reps. Yet nothing has really changed.


 A comfort zone is an individual thing.

If you train hard and progressively, add reps to your sets and weight to the bar, and still make 'lacklustre' progress then your diet and recovery are insufficient to support your training.

There are only three things you need to progress...

Regular training.

Progressive workouts.

Adequate nutrition and recovery.


----------



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

swole troll said:


> i often just say to people if you normally do 12-15 sets for chest on a monday like a true bro then try splitting it into 6-7 sets 2x per week


 Just to bump this for clarification, are you saying if you did 2x push sessions a week, you'd only do 6 or 7 sets per session? So it might go:

Flat bench 3x5

Incline bench 3x10

And thats it for chest for one day? Then repeat in a few days? Seems like very little stimulation for chest tbh


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sway12 said:


> Just to bump this for clarification, are you saying if you did 2x push sessions a week, you'd only do 6 or 7 sets per session? So it might go:
> 
> Flat bench 3x5
> 
> ...


 Its ample stimulation if you push yourself


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

swole troll said:


> Its ample stimulation if you push yourself


 No flyes, no stimulation.


----------



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

swole troll said:


> Its ample stimulation if you push yourself


 What if I do those movements but i feel it more in the shoulders?? Lets say I get no pump from the workout and my chest is barely touched.... what then? Waste of a session tbh wont get any growth from that


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sway12 said:


> What if I do those movements but i feel it more in the shoulders?? Lets say I get no pump from the workout and my chest is barely touched.... what then? Waste of a session tbh wont get any growth from that


 U trelling


----------



## RRSUK (Apr 9, 2017)

Sway12 said:


> What if I do those movements but i feel it more in the shoulders?? Lets say I get no pump from the workout and my chest is barely touched.... what then? Waste of a session tbh wont get any growth from that


 If your benching and feel it more in your shoulders your using poor form, try narrower grip and bring the bar down to nipple line.

Contract chest at both ends of movement.

Concentrate on using your chest to lift the bar.


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Sway12 said:


> Just to bump this for clarification, are you saying if you did 2x push sessions a week, you'd only do 6 or 7 sets per session? So it might go:
> 
> Flat bench 3x5
> 
> ...


 I would do flat bench, incline OR decline dumbbells (alternate every week) and flys / cable cross, so 3 exercises. 2 doesn't seem enough stimulation for me

I agree flat bench and incline is just going to stimulate your front delts a lot and they are getting hit by shoulders anyway. Pecs will be worked but I like to isolate them, hence the cable cross and / or flys

RRSUK makes a good point above, many many people do bench incorrectly and put far too much emphasise on delts. Its not actually an easy on to get right but when you do you know you are working the pecs (and your lift will immediately increase by a rep ot two)

youtube "how to bench press", its actually opposite to what you might think, e.g. squeezing the lats back and down


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Sway12 said:


> What if I do those movements but i feel it more in the shoulders?? Lets say I get no pump from the workout and my chest is barely touched.... what then? Waste of a session tbh wont get any growth from that


 That's a technique or exercise selection problem, not a total number of sets problem. Personally I really rate decline dumbbell presses. The video I'll post at the end of this post may also help.

On the total sets front first of all start to think in total sets per week rather than per workout. Having said that I personally benefit from more than suggested above but I periodise this (following Mike Israetel's philosophy). So over a 5 week training cycle I go from 12 to 20 sets for chest per week, split across two sessions. Until recently I'd been sticking to 12 sets per week but I'm definitely making better progress now. Just another idea to throw into the mix.


----------



## IIFYM_ALEX (May 20, 2016)

Mingster said:


> The problem with people doing P/P/L, or Upper/Lower for that matter, is that they do far too many exercises and end up like you suggest above.
> 
> There's no need to do more than two exercises for any body part if you do them correctly. Thus a push day needs no more than 5 exercises, 2 chest, 2 shoulders and 1 tricep. My current Upper day has 2 back exercises, 2 chest exercises and 1 each for shoulders, bi's, and tri's.
> 
> Leg day would be Squats, GHR, and a couple of sets for calves. Anything else is a complete waste of time for 99% of trainers. and merely demonstrates they haven't trained the earlier exercises properly.


 what would you say to someone who wants to bring up their arms though? everyone always says only need say 1 exervise for biceps and 1 for triceps, but what if their lagging behind the rest of your body and you want to bring them up? particulary the width of my arm and the very rear tricep head .


----------



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

IIFYM_ALEX said:


> what would you say to someone who wants to bring up their arms though? everyone always says only need say 1 exervise for biceps and 1 for triceps, but what if their lagging behind the rest of your body and you want to bring them up? particulary the width of my arm and the very rear tricep head .


 Train them at least twice a week, one workout focus on heavy weight low reps and the other focus on the pump and contracting the muscle with higher reps. 20 sets for bis and tris respectively. I like to superset them personally.

For the areas you mentioned, hammer curls and overhead extensions will target them well.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

IIFYM_ALEX said:


> what would you say to someone who wants to bring up their arms though? everyone always says only need say 1 exervise for biceps and 1 for triceps, but what if their lagging behind the rest of your body and you want to bring them up? particulary the width of my arm and the very rear tricep head .


 If that's the case switch your secondary pressing exercise to something more triceps dominant such as CGBP or dips. 90% of your triceps growth will come from pressing, I can guarantee it.


----------



## Marcus-d (Aug 2, 2015)

Check out Scott Stevenson's Fortitude training program. The book is literally bodybuilding gold dust, and the programme is very effective if followed correctly. I began FT at the start of a bulk last year and now I am riddled with stretch marks haha! On the face of it, it appears to be super low volume, but the high intensity and frequency more than makes up for it.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> If that's the case switch your secondary pressing exercise to something more triceps dominant such as CGBP or dips. 90% of your triceps growth will come from pressing, I can guarantee it.


 this

tricep extensions arnt even icing on the cake, theyre dusting on the icing

a lot of us do them for the mental masturbation (myself included) but the VAST majority of your arm growth is going to come from adding weight to your press's, rows and weighted dips and chin ups

you WONT find someone with a 4 plate bench that has skinny arms


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

swole troll said:


> this
> 
> tricep extensions arnt even icing on the cake, theyre dusting on the icing
> 
> ...


 @Jakemaguire


----------



## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

Sway12 said:


> Just to bump this for clarification, are you saying if you did 2x push sessions a week, you'd only do 6 or 7 sets per session? So it might go:
> 
> Flat bench 3x5
> 
> ...


 I train 2 work sets bench 2 sets Cgbp once a week and closer to a comp I'll have a second pressing day but I grow very well off one session a week of 2 work sets on those two moments I do flies and some dumbbell pressing of I can be arsed but that's just fluff work


----------



## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> @Jakemaguire


 I Do have sexy arms and a 4 plate bench at 90kg bodyweight 30kg of that is Tricep mass lol


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Jakemaguire said:


> I Do have sexy arms and a 4 plate bench at 90kg bodyweight 30kg of that is Tricep mass lol


 Just thinking about it any idea what your Wilks is? Quick passing thought mate, interested. lol


----------



## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

114.9 bench only

My best competition total on wilks is 427.73 @Quackerz


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Jakemaguire said:


> 114.9 bench only
> 
> My best competition total on wilks is 427.73 @Quackerz


 Good s**t mang. Keep up the good work. :thumbup1:


----------



## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> Good s**t mang. Keep up the good work. :thumbup1:


 Lol injured now some kind of tear next to my pec struggling with my back and hip time for a good off season hopefully come back more jacked more tanned and juicier than ever


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Jakemaguire said:


> Lol injured now some kind of tear next to my pec struggling with my back and hip time for a good off season hopefully come back more jacked more tanned and juicier than ever


 Didn't even know you were injured mate, best of luck for a speedy recovery and all that jazz. Hit dem flyes, only fix for it. lol


----------



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Jakemaguire said:


> I train 2 work sets bench 2 sets Cgbp once a week and closer to a comp I'll have a second pressing day but I grow very well off one session a week of 2 work sets on those two moments I do flies and some dumbbell pressing of I can be arsed but that's just fluff work


 are you on test?

Thats very cool though, thanks for the info


----------



## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

Sway12 said:


> are you on test?
> 
> Thats very cool though, thanks for the info


 Yes mate


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Sway12 said:


> Just to bump this for clarification, are you saying if you did 2x push sessions a week, you'd only do 6 or 7 sets per session? So it might go:
> 
> Flat bench 3x5
> 
> ...


 My typical upper/lower routine i.e. my main routine, for chest for example, consists of some kind of bench press variant, done once every 3-4 days. That's it. Just one chest exercise per session on my upper day. The next day i'll either train legs or have a day off inbetween, then after another rest day the upper session comes around again and I'll do a different be press variant to the last session, again just that one exercise. As I said, this has been my main approach for most of my 4 years of training and I take the same approach for every muscle group, had absolutely no trouble growing. 1 exercise twice a week is fine for most, 2 exercises twice a week is definitely enough. If 4 exercises once a week for chest is considered enough, why would 2 twice a week i.e. 4 a week total, not be enough? Total weekly volume is what's most important when planning a routine.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> Total weekly volume is what's most important when planning a routine.


 This.

Most people train far too much. More isn't better.


----------



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> My typical upper/lower routine i.e. my main routine, for chest for example, consists of some kind of bench press variant, done once every 3-4 days. That's it. Just one chest exercise per session on my upper day. The next day i'll either train legs or have a day off inbetween, then after another rest day the upper session comes around again and I'll do a different be press variant to the last session, again just that one exercise. As I said, this has been my main approach for most of my 4 years of training and I take the same approach for every muscle group, had absolutely no trouble growing. 1 exercise twice a week is fine for most, 2 exercises twice a week is definitely enough. If 4 exercises once a week for chest is considered enough, why would 2 twice a week i.e. 4 a week total, not be enough? Total weekly volume is what's most important when planning a routine.


 interesting, so no assistance movements at all?

So maybe a back day would be: BB row... thats it?

Anyway, perhaps i've been overstretching myself and thats why i've had trouble growing, maybe my recovery is a little slower than most. I have tended to feel really drained after a session.... but recently i've been reducing the volume and now when I leave the gym I feel better, pumped and stuff. is that correct


----------



## richengineer (Oct 9, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> interesting, so no assistance movements at all?
> 
> So maybe a back day would be: *BB row... thats it*?
> 
> Anyway, perhaps i've been overstretching myself and thats why i've had trouble growing, maybe my recovery is a little slower than most. I have tended to feel really drained after a session.... but recently i've been reducing the volume and now when I leave the gym I feel better, pumped and stuff. is that correct


 Ideally you want a vertical pull aswell as a horizontal, lat pulls or chins/pull ups


----------



## IIFYM_ALEX (May 20, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> If that's the case switch your secondary pressing exercise to something more triceps dominant such as CGBP or dips. 90% of your triceps growth will come from pressing, I can guarantee it.


 usually i would do something like flat bench 5sets , incline dumbells 4sets, dumbell flys 3 then cable flys 3. at this point im quite tired and always do a rope pushdown/bar push down, CGBP on smith or skullcrushers/overhead extensions. if im fatigued alot will just be the machine work rather than cgbp. very rarely do dips so may start doing them. my new gym doesnt have a weight belt that you can add weights to though .

im thinking now that because i get tired towards the end of the workout which is when i would be doing triceps i need less overall volume to start with. maybe just 4 sets flat bench, 4 incline dumbell and then 2 or 3 on cable flys, then straight to triceps


----------



## IIFYM_ALEX (May 20, 2016)

swole troll said:


> this
> 
> tricep extensions arnt even icing on the cake, theyre dusting on the icing
> 
> ...


 my bent over rows are 100/120 for sets now

rarely ever do weighted dips

when you say 4 plates do you mean 4 plates a side or 4 in total?(100kg)? because if im well rested, i do working sets of 6-10reps on 120kg bench


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

IIFYM_ALEX said:


> my bent over rows are 100/120 for sets now
> 
> rarely ever do weighted dips
> 
> when you say 4 plates do you mean 4 plates a side or 4 in total?(100kg)? because if im well rested, i do working sets of 6-10reps on 120kg bench


 i mean 180kg bench, youre not going to find someone that benches that much with skinny arms.

thats not to say your arms cant be big before that but increasing those heavy upper body compounds are whats going to thicken your arms, not curls and tri extensions

i have piss poor arm genetics but i saw the best growth from getting my bench, rows, pull downs and dips up not by doing a few extra reps on the preacher bench

also bear in mind muscle insertion and limb length plays a big role in how big your arms 'look'


----------



## IIFYM_ALEX (May 20, 2016)

swole troll said:


> i mean 180kg bench, youre not going to find someone that benches that much with skinny arms.
> 
> thats not to say your arms cant be big before that but increasing those heavy upper body compounds are whats going to thicken your arms, not curls and tri extensions
> 
> ...


 yeah i think thats the main problem tbf, my brother has exactly same bodytype i had few years ago so hes growing exactly like me obviously. and i have quite long limbs and short bicep insertations. when i tense you can see the bicep is big, but its annoying as f**k that it stops short like an inch short of my elbow, so doesnt quite fill out the whole arm. but nothing i can really do i dont think


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

IIFYM_ALEX said:


> yeah i think thats the main problem tbf, my brother has exactly same bodytype i had few years ago so hes growing exactly like me obviously. and i have quite long limbs and short bicep insertations. when i tense you can see the bicep is big, but its annoying as f**k that it stops short like an inch short of my elbow, so doesnt quite fill out the whole arm. but nothing i can really do i dont think


 yea just accept it mate, ive been training for years and hammered my arms in all different ways and you cant out grow genetics

long arms can look decent but you need a lot more meat on them

like i say just focus on getting those compounds up in a calories surplus and youll see the best growth youre going to get

its damn near impossible to go from 140kg to 180kg bench without arm growth


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

IIFYM_ALEX said:


> usually i would do something like flat bench 5sets , incline dumbells 4sets, dumbell flys 3 then cable flys 3. at this point im quite tired and always do a rope pushdown/bar push down, CGBP on smith or skullcrushers/overhead extensions. if im fatigued alot will just be the machine work rather than cgbp. very rarely do dips so may start doing them. my new gym doesnt have a weight belt that you can add weights to though .
> 
> im thinking now that because i get tired towards the end of the workout which is when i would be doing triceps i need less overall volume to start with. maybe just 4 sets flat bench, 4 incline dumbell and then 2 or 3 on cable flys, then straight to triceps


 Try 4 sets of a bench variation (any) then 4 sets of dips 2X per week, fvck the flyes off. Just make sure to progress session to session. You can buy a dip belt for £20 or so.


----------

