# Phils abscess story - pictures on the way



## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

As promised here is the full account of my recent experiences re. a rather nasty abscess and the aftermath, its quite a long story but i hope you find it makes good reading... I have not been able to add the pics - i have mailed them to Hackski and he will edit them into the thread for me.

Iv been training for over 12 years, competing for 4, I have used anabolics on and off for probably 7 years, i would describe myself as fairly knowledgeable and experienced & I have administered literally hundreds of injections - to myself & others with no problems atall until August this year...

8 days out from a show i did a 1ml shot of winni depot to my right pec, i aborted the shot as it blocked the needle - i didnt inject any steroid, i did the shot elsewhere - but my pec swelled to double its normal size & after 3 days the injection site although painless was swollen and now had a 6cm swollen lump under the skin, by show day it hadnt gone down & i pulled out of the show on the day as it was so obvious.

I visited A&E that afternoon -the doc diagnosed a "haemmatoma" - (also refered to as a "sterile abscess") - id caught a blood vessel doing the jab, it had bled into the muscle, the blood hadnt been able to escape so pooled causing the lump. I was given a course of antibiotics to safeguard against infection.

I got my head down & trained & dieted 2 more weeks competing in Leicester taking 2nd in my class but not qualifying for the British, id had a hell of a time carbing up wih terrible guts unable to tolerate carb loading - i think maybe this was due to the antibiotics.

I set my sights on Birmingham 3 weeks later and again returned to the strict diet & cardio, I had 3 weeks & restarted my prep course - test prop, tren ace, winni depot & winni oral for 2 weeks, show day was 28th Sept.

I had my last shot of winni depot on Friday 19th Sept - i was also due 1ml of test prop that day so i loaded the winni depot & test prop into the same barrel & injected my right glute nice & deep with a blue. Prior to injection i had washed my hands, cleaned my glute with surgical spirit and cotton wool and observed sterile handing procedures of all injection paraphanelia.

By Monday 22nd my glute was very sore, i thougth nothing of it, by Tuesday it was causing me to limp and my 2 hrs of cardio was very uncomfortable, by Weds 24th i was in real pain sitting, driving and lying on my right side - my glute had started to swell in size - my show was only 4 days away! I didnt use antibiotics or visit the doc - i was so focused on the show & i know anti biotics make me hold lots of water. The swelling remained and slowly increased all week - i spent many hours lying with ice packs on the muscle to reduce inflamation.

28th September i went to Birmingham on the back seat of my car lying as comfortably as possible and cursing the sports suspension! Once weighed in i found a quiet back room and didnt really move from the floor - i managed to get use of a fridge with an ice compartment and kept putting ice packs on my glute, i was downing nurofen & paracetamol every couple of hours and just about staying on top of the pain and swelling.

I stepped on stage in decent enough condition, but not carrying enough size i was a little watery (due to the infection i didnt know id got) but unable to really pose my hamstrings or hit my side shots properly - i could not push my left knee against my right hamstring as the swelling restricted my flexibility. I took 3rd in my class.

Woke Monday morning & swelling was still there & still very painful - i managed to drive to the NHS drop in centre & presented the nurse with my swollen bum cheek & told her what id done, she went to get a 2nd opinion as wasnt sure, her superior looked & said it was not an abscess cos it was too big! - They sent me off with a script for antibiotics & I was told to use Ibuprofen & Paracetamol every few hours.

Wednesday 1st Oct - still in a real mess, limping badly, painful walking, standing, sitting, bending etc went to GP for emergency appointment & 2nd opinion. She said i had a large haemmatoma caused by the injection, it was localised bleeding & bound to be painful due to its location - I queried that it might be an abscess but she said no - that would have a head on it & be boiling hot to touch. I went away uncertain but not knowing what else to do.

Thursday i was back in the gym for a back session - felt great after the recent carb up - took my mind off the discomfort for a bit.

Friday 3rd October - still no better - i got out the shower in the morning, my other half saw me and nearly dropped her cup of tea - i went and looked properly in a mirror - she was right - it was even bigger & now had a definite head on it. I rang the doctor i had seen, told her it was bigger, hotter & now had a head - she said - yeah thats OK its not infected dont worry you'll be OK - it will go down - i came off the phone feeling a bit lost.

Went away that weekend to watch the Leeds show, was in pain all weekend drove my training partner up as he was competing. I trained Saturday afternoon at a great gym in Leeds called Altered image - great hardcore gym - i did delts and tris and it took my mind off the pain until i tried doing seated shoulder press!! I hobbled round all weekend and collapsed into bed Sunday night worn out.

Monday 6th October - swelling was even more pronounced:

PHOTO 1 & PHOTO 2,

Late evening (after training chest & biceps!!) i went to A&E at midnight, i saw a doctor at 4am - she took 1 look and was like "bloody hell thats a huge abscess - you need admitting and need to see a surgeon right away", at 5.30am Tuesday 7th Oct i saw a surgeon - he told me that i had a massive abscess - badly infected, it would need to be removed - he was going to put me on the emergency list for surgery - at this point i realised things were going badly wrong!

I was put on nil by mouth, rang my girlfriend who brought me down a wash bag, a book and of course some protein drinks! (nil by mouth except protein!). They finally took me off for general anaesthetic at 8pm, i didnt know what to expect - was told they needed to make an incision to drain out the puss.

Wednesday 8th October - morning walkround by surgeon - he told me they had drained 900ml of puss from my ass cheek - yes you read that right - in perspective thats nearly 3 cans of coke, or the shaker bottles we mix our protein drinks in hold 700ml - thats a hell of a lot of puss!!

He said they had to cut a lot deeper than expected and the wound wound was very large - it would take 3 months to heal - my world seemed to be coming apart at this point.

To further put the frighteners on me they told me they were very worried about my hip joint - due to the depth of the abscess and the volume of it, the puss had been trying to find a way out, normally it would come to the surface and burst but with me it had been pushed against the bone of the hip joint - they were worried about bone infection and scepticemia (blood poisoning) - by now i was having visions of losing my whole bloody leg!!

Later that day they changed my dressing - an abscess is not stitched up post op like a normal wound as it will become re-infected - instead they leave the wound open & pack it with sterile packing, it effectively heals from the inside out. While the nurse was out the cubicle i took a sneaky photo of the wound -

PHOTO 3

As you can imagine seeing i had this was a bit of a stomach churner!

I was extremely lucky that each day my girl friend brought me down a cool bag full of good healthy food - chicken salad, natural yoghurt & peptide etc etc - this at least meant i could keep some level of normality with my eating habits and not feel like i was wasting way - which would have been the case on hospital food!

Thursday 9th October my dressing was changed and the wound re-packed - i took another photo - this ones really sick!

PHOTO 4

Following my dressing change on Friday 10th October with the tissue viability nurse present, the decision was made to keep me in for observation over the weekend - the wound was still infected with Staph. Aureus (common bacteria) - i was being pumped full of IV antibiotics till the weekend when i went over to orals.

A nurse measured the wound today at 13cm long, 4cm wide and 3cm deep!!!!

The dressing was being changed daily - despite loads of packing it was leaking exudate constantly and by the time of each dressing change it was all soggy and generally unpleasant - although i could walk round with a lot less pain than before the op!

Time dragged on - i amazed all the nursing staff that i could spend all day eating - one of them got so worried she demanded i be weighed every day expecting me to be piling on loads of weight so she was most puzzled my weight was coming down (water rebound post show had been huge and was finally subsiding LOL).

Tuesday morning 14th Oct the tissue viability nurse made the decision to fit me with a vacuum pump - this is a device used post surgery in certain cases - in effect the wound is packed with sterile absorbant foam & sealed with an air tight dressing out of which a thin tube feeds into a portable vacuum unit - this constantly drains the wound and removes the exudate (tissue run off) preventing it sitting round to become infected and promotes fresh blood flow to the area.

I took another photo of the wound, this was after she had cut away a couple of blood clots - nice!

PHOTO 5

Thursday 16th Oct - the tissue viability nurse changed the dressing on the vac pump - ouch - i was given the all clear to leave the hospital that afternoon. The wound now looked like this:

PHOTO 6

I am now at home - i have a portable vacuum unit to carry round with me - its about the size of a large CD walkman from the mid 90s - it chugs away in the background sucking the crap out of me!

I took a pic of the vac dressing this am - it makes my ass cheek look rather saggy, but you can clearly see the size of the wound.

PHOTO 7

Im hoping the scaring when it finally heals will be covered by my posing trunks. Im desperate to get back into the gym - iv been told to take another couple of weeks off - but i think some light arms and shoulder raises next week are on the cards!

Crazy as it sounds i carried on my rebound cycle while i was in the hospital - hair of the dog - it took some courage to jab a blue in my quad while sitting in a hospital bed having had an absces removed from a bad shot! But I wanted to taper off properly so i could begin PCT.

I have been running 4iu of Ansomone GH on waking each day even when in hospital - im sure this can do nothing but help the healing process.

The doctors cannot explain why the abscess developed - their only advice is dont use steroids - thanks but no thanks.

I will start a new course in a few months after a proper clean out, in the mean time i will run PCT and cycle IGF in 4 week bursts with a base of GH daily until my next course.

The reason i wanted to write this huge article was to make people aware that no matter how careful you are - and how clean you think your injection technique is - you are at risk. I would have never believed this could happen to me - i have preached to people about clean technique so many times - i always aspirate, clean the area & equipment etc etc.

The other crucial point i want you all to come away with after reading this is that if you have had a shot and it doesnt feel right many days later - and it hurts - then get help ASAP - and if youre not happy go back for 2nd, 3rd 4th opinions till you get taken seriously - some times we get fobbed off cos we bring these things upon ourselves in the eyes of the medical world (although its OK to smoke drink and be obese!!).

I knew my body well enough that even after 3 lots of medical professionals had told me it was OK - i still knew it wasnt - the surgeon did tell me that had it been dealt with 8 days earlier when i first went for medical help it would have been a lot lot smaller and easier to treat and not made anywhere near such a mess. Also rather frighteningly he told me left any longer i could have had serious bone/ joint infection (arthritis in later years, loss of function etc) and i was only days away from life threatening levels of blood poisoning!

Sobering thoughts! - Please be careful out there and remember to take this side of body building very seriously - its not a game!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh man, one of them you can see the meat on the inside almost gagged me, I had to look away when I was editing the pics.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

A couple more


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

OH MY GOD, sooooo cool but oh so yuck!!

thats ummmmmmmm very fleshy.........................


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

horrible injury that.

Pushing bacteria into a muscle caused that?

were you overly run down because of contest prep?


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

That is bad mate. Really bad!

Thanks for posting Phil. Hope you get well soon buddy.

This thread is sticky worthy.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

F**K me! How come every time you hear about this its winny.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Jezuz, i wish i hadn't seen this thread now.

Glad your on the mend mate.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

OMG!!!! :cursing:

That is absolutely terrible. I have never seen anything like that in my life.

I had an abcess once almost the same place, slightly more central from a test prop shot. Within 3 days it was boiling hot and red and had a head to it. Even that was as big as a golf ball of pus after 3 days and got a 2 inch scar now. I was using 6iu GH at the time too and it healed totally in 2 weeks and the doctor was amazed, I said it was the high protein diet!

So I would keep the GH going mate.

You sound very dedicated and slightly crazy to be banging in gear in hospital though, worrying about a rebound course when half your **** is missing!!


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## marty.c (Jul 9, 2008)

nasty wound bro, you did well to compete way that goin on,


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Bad luck comes into things though also... I had a colleague who had a big (not as big as this) abscess removed/drained etc on his lower back from an in-grown hair!

The wound had to be packed and allowed to heal from the bottom, drained off a good 1/2 cup of puss

A Hair!!


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## tedder (Feb 4, 2007)

Jeez not good at all mate but i hope you are on the mend now. I must admit its put me of doing my next shot.


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## pod13 (Aug 26, 2008)

Phil B said:


> Im hoping the scaring when it finally heals will be covered by my posing trunks. Im desperate to get back into the gym - iv been told to take another couple of weeks off - but i think some light arms and shoulder raises next week are on the cards!
> 
> some cut
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about this Phil. Hope it heals well. I'm sure you'll end up with some fairly nasty scarring. Once your off vac therapy and the wound site has healed up, it'll be worth massaging bio-oil into the area and potentially seeing a physio or massage therapist to do cross-friction massage as the scarring inside the wound remodels.

No one should be fobbed off by any healthcare professional regardless of their choice to take any drug (booze and tobacco included). If you've got an acute problem - like you had - you need to see someone about it ASAP, and your story is a great illustration of what can happen if things are left to fester. Like Phil says, be persistent.

Your body's pretty cool - if you have bacteria introduced into the soft tissue, it attempts to wall it off and surrounds it with white blood cells, as these fight the infection (in Phil's case staph aureus) some die and build up in the area causing that yellowy white appearance of pus (which when mixed with a bit of blood looks like a strawberry milkshake). Fibrous tissue develops in the area with time and an abscess forms - your body defends itself by walling off the infection so it doesn't travel through your blood and kill you. If the infection isn't drained, it will often track elsewhere. If it goes to your bone, it gets inside the bone and tracks through the marrow (osteomyelitis) killing the bone and creating a great place for bacteria to reproduce where it's difficult to get your white blood cells into (and any antibiotics) so then your in for more destructive surgery (or sometimes death if you leave it and it tracks elsewhere).

It's great that Phil has took the time to write his story and provide the pics and I hope he makes as full a recovery as possible. All the best.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sorry about the order, I can put the pics in order of the post but it will have double posts.


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## PHHead (Aug 20, 2008)

Jesus you sure you didn't just sit on a landmine mate lol, no but seriously that looks very painful, all the best and I'm sure once its healed you probably won't even notice it!


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Hackski - thanks for putting the pics in - i dont suppose the order of the pics is that important - a couple show the abscess pre surgery, the last one shows the wound as it was this morning and with the vac pump dressing fixed up - i will try and update on healing process maybe each week and see how many weeks i can beat the projected 12 weeks recovery time by! Looking at the pics is quite sobering i think - just glad it got dealt with and didnt have any longer to become even more serious!

I will be at the British on Sunday - ill be the one carrying round the little black box over my shoulder with a tube coming out of it!! LOL


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

For ****s sake!!! thats bad, get well soon pal


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## Lee1436114491 (Jun 6, 2004)

this will make me think twice about ever touching gear again.

glad your ok mate

best of luck with the recovery


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Guys, water based winstrol is poision in my opinion, it offers nothing over orals winny, and everything that goes wrong with injections.

Sorry for the rant, I just have a hard time looking at the second pic, I have a weak stomach, and that almost gags me.....

Phil, thank you so much for the pics, I hope you have a speedy recovery, part of the problem here is the fact the health care dragged their feet.

Cudos to you for knowing something was wrong in light of them not caring.......That sucks.

Cheers big man, you are my hero for sure..........

Respect bro............


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

all i can say is ...wow....this does deserve a sticky....cuz i was just about to get into steroid after i had enough training...but now im having second thoughts!!!


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Agree with Hackski - the 2nd pic is the most gruesome - it shows what i was faced with 2 days after the op - they had cleaned it up and packed it with gauze which is why it looks so wide.

Remember where it is located i cant really see it - so i was liying in the hospital bed with my camera phone in my hand waving it round behind me trying to get a picture so i could see what it looked like - i can assure you its not a nice feeling to take a pic of yourself like that and see it for the first time!!

Just glad iv always liked gory horror films and medical documentries else i think it may have all been a bit much!!


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

bro...you dont need to hear its bad or yuck etc etc....you know it is upsetting enough...and could of been far more fatal....!!!

a staph aureas is a skin flora that you find residing on the skin,in the nose,genital area's etc....its when you antibiotics are being resisted it becomes methicillin resistant staph aureus (MRSA)....thank god you dont have this,believe me i know about this!!!!

and i think with the cycle you was tapering off of...and the GH,your recovery will be all the much more better and quicker...nutrients filled blood,absorption,recovery,tissue repair and recovery time will be 1/3rd of the time!!!!!

i was on 4ml deca on purpose for my op on both bum cheeks 29th jul 08!!!!

the only thing is,may be the scar tissue element...i have 9 & 10 stitches on either side right where you jab,so i might be unfortunate there for jabbing reasons because of the scar tissue...but your lucky that it is one side!!!!

i know i shouldnt be talking like this...and really promoting your health and recovery...but you obviously were so far into training you were competing...and done bloody well whilst being ill too!!!!

so i dont think this will stop you,but brings caution and safety element right up...i really hope the vac pump will drain off and the antibiotics kill every last drop off offending bacteria....and that your wound healing is promoted with your intake of aids should i call em,protein,food etc!!!!

find out if the bacteria deterioted much or any of the muscle away...and how much tissue damage there is...because obviously you want to know amount/volume of damage and how much muscle tissue is residing for movement/bio-mechanical,symmetrical reasons,even just to sit on evenly....i wondered if you can hypertrophy one side enough to equal it up,if there was significant amount missing?

please let us know how you feel bro...this must be such a hard thing to go through physically,let alone psychologically....even when docs say its self inflicted bla bla...nothing is nice when like that,also how is your recovery now???


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

wow.thats one major abcess mate.

one of my friends had a cut out in his tricep years ago(which i actually did the shot for him). he was in a right state.

so i really do feel for you.,i get a lump for a day or 2 and think ive got issues.

geez mate,i hope it all heals up in quick time for you.

thanksfor taking the time post up and hope this teaches people something.

sticky.


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## pod13 (Aug 26, 2008)

anabolic ant said:


> staph aureas is a skin flora that you find residing on the skin,in the nose,genital area's etc....its when you antibiotics are being resisted it becomes methicillin resistant staph aureus (MRSA)....thank god you dont have this,believe me i know about this!!!!
> 
> the only thing is,may be the scar tissue element...i have 9 & 10 stitches on either side right where you jab,so i might be unfortunate there for jabbing reasons because of the scar tissue...but your lucky that it is one side!!!!
> 
> i know i shouldnt be talking like this...and really promoting your health and recovery...but you obviously were so far into training you were competing...and done bloody well whilst being ill too!!!!


We've got bacteria all over us, and inside (it's called your 'normal flora'). If you get a wound that crosses your normal tissue planes, some of these bacteria that are helpful when they live on your skin get to places where they aren't normally found and rapidly reproduce, causing an infection (it's not just bacteria, but these are the most common infecting organisms).

There's lots of media hype about MRSA. It is just a type of staph aureus that isn't responsive to a certain type of antibiotic. There are antibiotics to treat it, and it'll respond to being chopped out (surgical debridement) in exactly the same way as other similar bacteria.

As for scarring, Phil is more likely to get a greater amount of scarring than someone who's had a wound stitched up. Phil's wound was left open to drain. This means it heals from the bottom out - with lots of fibrous scar tissue getting laid down on the way. This will remodel with time, but he'll have some scarring. When you stitch a wound up, your body has a bit less healing to do, so there's less scarring. So it will be worth seeing someone for scar management.

Ant's made a great point about muscle loss. Muscles are generally grouped into compartments, surrounded by fibrous connective tissue (fascia). This fascia is pretty good at stopping bacteria getting across into the muscle compartment and spreading around (although certain types of bacteria are good at tracking along and spreading that way) creating more damage. Your bum has a reasonable layer of subcutaneous fat on it (although Phil's was likely pretty thin if his bodyfat was low), so hopefully his infection will have stayed in the fatty layer.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Phil.. fuk bro sorry to see/hear that!


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Sorry for the rant, I just have a hard time looking at the second pic, I have a weak stomach, and that almost gags me.....


I don't know how you did it mate.

I've only seen one of the pics so far, it's horrific!. I'm glad the thread has moved onto the second page.


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Scarring is one of my biggest concerns (along with not getting re-infection of course) - i do have real ugly scars on my right ankle from a bad break years ago though and the comp tan covers them up nicely so it shouldnt be a major issue.

Also the doc did say lets see how it looks when its healed up and then if its bad we can look at a referal to plastic surgery for skin graft or whatever - in many ways though id rather avoid having any more surgery!

Next dressing change is due Monday so i will report back on progress then, i also thought i might log the size of the wound and chart how quick it closes up.

I could do a line graph of GH dose vs wound healing time LOL - currently on 4 a day!

Iv put another post up about recovery & GH - be intersting to see what people think!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

Jesus mate that's scary but an excellent insight!

This is the 4th winstrol infection I have seen now and it has put me off for life! I'll stick to the orals!


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

Littleluke said:


> This is the 4th winstrol infection I have seen now and it has put me off for life! *I'll stick to the orals*!


Why? Statiscally your much safer with injectables.

I'm sure it wasn't Phill's intention to scare people off depots, just to highlight the dangers of mixing oils/water and Winnie.


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## Trenzyme (May 4, 2008)

ive mixed oil and water a few times and shot winny and been ......

NEVER AGAIN!!!

sorry to preach but you should have gone to the docs much sooner

hope you heal up well ... good luck


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Mate those pictures just nearly made me sick. I have a very weak stomach when it comes to cuts and blood etc.

Hope you heat up really quickly and good on you for posting this thread!!

I am going tomorrow so will keep an eye out for you.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

pod13 said:


> We've got bacteria all over us, and inside (it's called your 'normal flora'). If you get a wound that crosses your normal tissue planes, some of these bacteria that are helpful when they live on your skin get to places where they aren't normally found and rapidly reproduce, causing an infection (it's not just bacteria, but these are the most common infecting organisms).
> 
> There's lots of media hype about MRSA. It is just a type of staph aureus that isn't responsive to a certain type of antibiotic. There are antibiotics to treat it, and it'll respond to being chopped out (surgical debridement) in exactly the same way as other similar bacteria.
> 
> ...


yep i know all this about scarring,the flora's etc...i have education(done a few agar plates etc in my time),but very much experience in dealing with infection,bacteria's etc etc etc...wasnt in the mood to start a blackwell synergy,pub med etc etc search on peer reviewed journals to explain something which i broke down into laymans terms without having to go deep in scientific jargon,just skimmed the surface so to speak,no need for depth at the minute,as i said a small bit of info!!!

i also have very good knowledge and experience of vac pumps,draining,wound healing etc...was just shedding a small amount of knowledge but not deviating from poor phil's traumatic event!!!!!


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

a very good thread about some of the problems with injecting!

i hope it heals well and everything works out for you!!

makes you think twice though(about injecting) whatever the compound.


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## pod13 (Aug 26, 2008)

anabolic ant said:


> yep i know all this about scarring,the flora's etc...i have education(done a few agar plates etc in my time),but very much experience in dealing with infection,bacteria's etc etc etc...wasnt in the mood to start a blackwell synergy,pub med etc etc search on peer reviewed journals to explain something which i broke down into laymans terms without having to go deep in scientific jargon,just skimmed the surface so to speak,no need for depth at the minute,as i said a small bit of info!!!
> 
> i also have very good knowledge and experience of vac pumps,draining,wound healing etc...was just shedding a small amount of knowledge but not deviating from poor phil's traumatic event!!!!!


Never said you didn't know all this mate. I just find this stuff interesting. I see patients in outpatient clinics who are scared to death of MRSA because they read the daily mail and take it as gospel. I was just trying to put my two pence in on healing and infection for information really (without straying too far from layman's terms or the original post). I too have experience of these things. I think Phil's done a great job of providing a good example of how things don't always go as you'd like, despite taking precautions.

Have a good one.


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

PHIL! I didn't bloody realise it was you PHIL PHIL!, The Phil I know personally!! LOL!!..

Are you coming to the hercules show mate. Be good to se ya buddy! Just keep that f()cking pump away from me as I have such a weak stomach LOL!.. I was drinking oats and whey whilst looking at this photo and HONESTLY struggled!


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

Littleluke said:


> Just keep that f()cking pump away from me as I have such a weak stomach LOL!.. I was drinking oats and whey whilst looking at this photo and HONESTLY struggled!


you big girl, harden up :tongue:


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I've eaten a worse one than that, but that's another story....although I've mentioned it on here before......

Get well soon dude, that's one big mofo....


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Reps to Phil for posting that, nice one mate, I have linked it from my steroid side effects thread, hope you dont mind (assumed you didnt as you posted it here for others to learn from).

You will have a fair scar mate as they probably didnt want to seal the infection in so left it open? vac drain is excellent bit of kit and will suck all of that poison right out of you in no time! :thumb:

Only suggestions on the scar front are massage with bio oil and take adequate zinc, also pray your Dr is good with a neddle and thread, dont let them use staples!!

For others reading, here are possible ways to prevent this occuring, I am not saying at all that Phil did not do any of them, I just think its a great time to remind people of how this could be avoided, thats not to say that even if you follow all of this advice to the letter it wont happen anyway.

1/ Buy the injectable from a reliable, proven source, with high standards of hygiene and a good track record.

2/ Clean the site you wish to inject. Doesnt have to be alcohol, in fact alcohol leaves a residue, is a carbohydtrate and doesn't kill all bacteria any more! Better to use soap and water. Also clean the vial seal.

3/ Draw up with a fresh needle into a fresh syringe. I hope no-one re-uses either.

4/ Check the date on the injectable, is it in date?

5/ Check the condition of the injectable, look for crystals, separation, contamination.

6/ You could test inject 0.25 ml into a glute and see if there is a reaction, before commening with full 1ml shots.

7/ Inject with a fresh needle, not the one you drew up with (its blunt now anyway).

8/ Withdraw the plunger before you depress to ensure you arent in a blood vessel.

9/ Massage the site post injection and keep pressure on the puncture wound.

There is more to an injection, I am just illustrating the hygiene aspects of it. Importantly though and what most people forget, is boosting there immune system whilst on the course to prevent just this sort of infection. Adequate vitamins and inclusion of fruit and veg in the diet is a must, see my sig for vitamin doses.

For the record, this reply is not a flame of Phil, I am not saying that he didnt do any of the above or didnt know what he is doing, its a reminder to new guys reading the thread.

hth

SD


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## walks (Apr 13, 2007)

damm thats bad. Thats the 3rd abscess from winstrol ive seen in a few months.

Was it pharma stuff?


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

Robsta said:


> I've eaten a worse one than that, but that's another story....although I've mentioned it on here before......
> 
> Get well soon dude, that's one big mofo....


gotta agree with robsta...i've see some axewounds on some women...that wanted to eat me!!!!

sorry phil...just trying to put a smile element on this serious matter!!!!

health and recovery to you bro!!!


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## DoubleDcups (Sep 16, 2004)

Wow, just wow!!!

The only time you ever want to see a gash like that is on one of 'nostandardsdaves' threads over at dumpster sluts.

Get well soon buddy


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

That's horrible, gutted for you mate. Hope you make a quick recovery, keep us updated with it.


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

Phil B said:


> Went away that weekend to watch the Leeds show, was in pain all weekend drove my training partner up as he was competing. I trained Saturday afternoon at a *great gym in Leeds called Altered image* - great hardcore gym - i did delts and tris and it took my mind off the pain until i tried doing seated shoulder press!! I hobbled round all weekend and collapsed into bed Sunday night worn out.


Just seen this bit, I sometimes train there, a good bunch of lads


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Trenzyme said:


> ive mixed oil and water a few times and shot winny and been ......
> 
> NEVER AGAIN!!!
> 
> ...


Mate if you take the time to read my thread in full you will see that i went to the doctor 8 days before i was admitted for surgery, again 2 days after that and again 2 days after that, each time i was told nothing was wrong despite having explained to them i had injected myself, and expressing concern it was an abscess - i was basically fobbed off each time - it was only when i went to casualty a full week after i had first sought medical advice that i was taken seriously!

Just had the district nurse come round and do the dressing change - smarted a bit as she picked the foam out the wound with tweezers!! On the whole im a hell of a lot more mobile than i was with the abscess & in a lot less discomfort - made it up to the british finals on Sunday and managed to be quite discreet with the vac unit!!

As for Sport Docs post - no i dont mind you linking my thread atall, and dont worry i havent taken offence to you listing good injection technique & clean protocol - for the record, short of swabbing the amp of Winstrol (pharma winni btw) i do always follow the points you have listed - which makes me think that the simple act of mixing oil and water is what was actually to blame rather than me having introduced an infection through bad injection protocol?

Phil


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Luke - yes its me, LOL, yes i should make it along to the show at lakeside on Sunday so will have to catch up for a chat - might hold you to ransom if youre really squeamish and demand £10 or ill show you my "fluid collection reservoir", that really will make you gag! LOL


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

HAHAH, Well it will be great to see you mate, I'll bring some money to keep you at bay LOL


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Paul, I cant believe you even went to the show, you are a tough man.

I can tell we came from diffrent parents.....lol


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2008)

I just cant believe they dont stitch that?? its huge!

Get well soon man.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

They dont stitch those because they have to heal from the inside out.


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

WOW!! that is awfull ! .............all the best hope your back to normal soon. :thumb:


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## harryblue (Oct 13, 2008)

I saw an abscess in someones groin that produced almost a litre of pus, it was from injecting heroin though. The smell was incredible.

I have to say that having some medical training I've seen some crazy advice on injecting on BB'ing forums. From very poor technique to draining your own abscesses.


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Had a few dressing changes done now - they are uncomfortable - but nothing compared to a 50 rep set of leg press to failure!!

Ventured into the gym Tuesday afternoon for a few sets of chest & bis - felt much better for that - little bit of delts & tris planned for Thursday. My original plan for 08/09 was to back right off on chest shoulder & back training and emphasisie legs & arms - but obviously proper leg training is out the equation for a good few weeks yet - so instead i will hit chest, delts, bis & tris, then add in seated calves in a couple of weeks and light high rep leg extensions in maybe 4 weeks.

Frustrating as motivation to train is very high!! Also i could really do with hitting some cardio as i have had to go from around 2 hrs a day to nothing and need to keep body fat in check, but all the cardio kit available puts a lot of discomfort on the wound so need to steer clear for a few weeks.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You will need more glute work in the future mate..............................Just kidding, dont slap me, just kidding......lol

Good for you for training, a true champion you are.

Tougher than me.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

hey phil...hows the recovery going...are you healing,has the wound closing or are you still vac pump n dressings?

dont know if your stitched up now and abled again or your being hindered by the wound....let us know how the healing is going such as closure and mobility,use and scar tissue if that far yet?

hope life isnt looking down cos of it....i'm sure you'll be back in some way or form....you will be....keep the faith bro!!!!

keep updating,really interested and obviously want your health to be restored to a good point!!!

your a true warrior mate...keep the faith!!!


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## LNH (Jun 23, 2008)

harryblue said:


> I saw an abscess in someones groin that produced almost a litre of pus, it was from injecting heroin though. The smell was incredible.


i had a great job once upon a time............

collecting dead animals from vet surgeries for cremation, picked up an irish wolfhound, big bugger he was, from a vets in wales, been put to sleep with an abcess the size of a decent melon on his hind leg.

swung him onto the tail lift on the van and as his leg hit the floor the s0dding thing popped . . . .

all up my shirt, in my ear, my hair, dribbled down my back . . .

and the SMELL ! ! !

feck me, had to scrub myself down with antibacterial soap in the vets and i had to chuck the shirt in the back of the van and scrounge a lab coat off the vet to finish my round !

hope you was asleep when they drained you mate, the smell stays with you for weeks . . .


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## ARNIE (Dec 19, 2006)

some pics from the net!


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## glenn (Jan 20, 2008)

mmmmmmmm that looks just like that really nice just like the topping you get from the ice cream van

can i have crushed nuts with my 99 please

YUM


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## glenn (Jan 20, 2008)

mmmmmmmm that looks just like that really nice just like the topping you get from the ice cream van

can i have crushed nuts with my 99 please

YUM


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Got another dressing friday morning - i will see if theres any way i can get a photo or 2 whilst they are doing it - to update on here - i also want to get the wound measured as i know a few days post op they measured it in imperial for some reason at 5.5inches long, 1.75 inches wide and 1 inch deep - be interesting to see how its doing - am now 2.5 weeks post surgery.

Ventured into the gym today for a bit of delts & tris - feel better for it!

Iv decided i really hate injections - today i have had:

2iu GH 2hrs before waking/ rising - 1 jab

3ml Kynoselon pre-workout - 2 jabs - biceps - ouch

6iu GH & 4iu insulin post workout -2 jabs - triceps

1250iu HCG before bed - 1 jab sub q

Thats 6 bloody jabs in a day - im seriously thinking about taking up a new sport - like snooker!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

1250iu HCG before bed - 1 jab sub q?

Are you taking an AI?

That would give me gyno symptoms right now.

Id be surprised if you did not get gyno symptoms with that dose......Cool if you did not, I would......lol


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Yes to anti estrogen - 20mg nolvadex before bed and 100mg clomid split am & pm.


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

I managed to get a picture on Friday of the wound during a dressing change - hopefully Hackski is going to pop up some pics for me - there should be 1 24hrs post op, 1 6 days after that and 1 from Friday which is 17 days post op.

They took rough measurements in hospital after a couple of days and the "hole" was 14cm long, 4.5cm wide & 2.5cm deep. These figures are now (accurately measured) at 12cm long, 4cm wide & 2cm deep.

Sounds like a huge wound still but if you take the "volume" (width x length x depth i make it 163cm2, originally vs 96cm2 now - which means its only 60% of the original size - so hopefully well on track (i love GH!)

Still big - but i think ul agree from the photos it looks a hell of a lot less messy!

Back to doing some upper body work in the gym - just having to be careful to avoid bending/ stretching too much!


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

oh yes more pics hahahahaha

I know im sick :/

(i should have been a doctor like i was going to)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

In order from the 9th, to the 14th, to the 24th


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

This should be stickied.

Unlucky Phil mate.

Get well soon.


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

THATS AWESOME hahahaha

healing up nicely phil, do you still have the suction dressing on??

huge difference from the 14th -24th, thats good!!


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

yes still got the suction dressing on - finding its not really that inconvenient to be honest - they said the vac cud be turned off for a couple of hrs a day so iv been to the gym a few times and just unplugged it while i train then "plug-in" after training ready for the drive home.

Got a visit on Monday from a tissue viability specialist who will hopefully tell me all is looking well!


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

Phil B said:


> yes still got the suction dressing on - finding its not really that inconvenient to be honest - they said the vac cud be turned off for a couple of hrs a day so iv been to the gym a few times and just unplugged it while i train then "plug-in" after training ready for the drive home.
> 
> Got a visit on Monday from a tissue viability specialist who will hopefully tell me all is looking well!


having worked alot in the burns and plastics unit it looks pretty good!!

I have seen similar depth and quality of open wounds and that seems to look like its healing well!! No necrosis that i can see so it should close up ok!!


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## THEMEAT (Oct 22, 2008)

Jesus m8, those first pics look bad man, if I'd av seen that for real I would have 100% passed out, but looking better now tho. Talk about sods law something like that happening, and the doc or whoever you saw first is a ******* idiot. Hope it heals ok mate :thumb:


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## Beklet (May 13, 2005)

That's not good - looking much better than it was though..... :thumbup1:


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Scary stuff, glad it seems to be turning out OK.

Have you thought about taking action against the incompetent fvck who palmed you off?

If not for your own sake then for anyone else this idiot may mis-diagnose in the future?


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

ba baracuss said:


> Scary stuff, glad it seems to be turning out OK.
> 
> Have you thought about taking action against the incompetent fvck who palmed you off?
> 
> If not for your own sake then for anyone else this idiot may mis-diagnose in the future?


Yes have to admit i had wondered about that - i do feel if i hadnt been turned away for over a week before someone acted then this would never have got anywhere near as bad!

Will be at the muscle mania show 2moro - carrying my little black box - with my vac pump in it! LOL - I just hope its a noisy venue cos the slurping noises can be a little off putting!!


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

hahaha go stand right infront of little luke and then drop your pants, make sure someone has a camera to take a pic of his face when he sees it hahahaha x


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

Fecking hell. thats kinda put me off now!!!! Hope all is going well now mate


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I just stuck this thread for easy finding....


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## dogue (Nov 30, 2007)

Winstrol definatley seems to be a culprit for infections, my friend in the gym has a large hot swelling a week after his last shot, all had been fine for the previous 8 weeks.

He is now on antibiotics, and I refered him to this thread to get his swollen ass to A&E !


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## dudz (Oct 27, 2008)

wow


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## dogue (Nov 30, 2007)

Quick update, my mate went to A&E last night and they kept him in on a drip while they decide whether they need to open him up!

They said he left it too long (10 days) before going in...

Morale of the story here is definatley 'if in doubt, check it out!'


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

well im glad hes got himself to A&E - shame it wasnt a week earlier - mine was 10 days before i went to docs after shot but 18 day before they took the fact i could hardly walk or sit down or sleep seriously!!!!


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## dogue (Nov 30, 2007)

Cheers phil, they operated today and aparently the absess was very small but with lots of fliud.

Glad you are both out and on the mend!


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

massive change between the first and third photo. looks to be on the mend now.


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## Beans (Sep 1, 2008)

Will you be doing follow up pics Phil?

Not so much so we can see your bum, haha.

Just interested in how it heals, and the scarring(sp).


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Yes i intend to post up picks each week to show the recovery process, i think the last ones i did on Friday - iv got the nurse coming this Friday too so ill try & get a pic done


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## Bobbytrickster (Jan 2, 2006)

Just read it through, those pics are errrr.....graphic!!! I've not got a good stomach for things like that!

Hope your on the mend mate, great post will take a lot away form it.


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## newtolondon (Nov 2, 2008)

no doubt theyll use your story as a horror story to scare people from taking steroids


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

newtolondon said:


> no doubt theyll use your story as a horror story to scare people from taking steroids


I would hope some people use my story to remind themselves about using ultra clean technique, and also about getting themselves to the doc - or probably more approprately a&e if they have a site that is concerning them.

I dont think this needs to put anyone off - as long as you are sensible the risks are very minimal - and to be honest if it had been dealt with earlier the damage done and resultant extent of the wound would have been much less - possibly just a drainage and a course of antibiotics. Only time will tell what the extent of the scaring will be - although they have said if it was bad or i was unhappy with it they could look at plastic surgery.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

From Phil

Hi - please find attached a photo taken today - and 1 a week ago - i am now at the 4.5week mark - the size has reduced from around 15cm incision to just under 9cm - width reduced from 4cm to 2cm

Pics from 24thoct, 31st oct & today 7th Nov - so a week apart each time - i think the 24th pic is allready posted but it shows a definite improvement


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## Graham24 (Jul 28, 2008)

FCUK ME!!! i was not expecting to see wounds that size!

Get well soon mate.


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## rdangermouse (Jan 24, 2007)

oh my god.

My missus is a nurse and deals with stuff like that all the time,even she reckons thats a beauty.

Get well soon


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

hope your recovering well and are physically more able these days!!!

good luck with the road to full health n recovery bro!!!!


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

Graham24 said:


> FCUK ME!!! i was not expecting to see wounds that size!
> 
> Get well soon mate.


thts nothing go back and look at his first pics, just make sure your not eating at the time hahahahah


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

phil showed me his vacuum pump at a show the other week i proper heaved! nasty!

get well soon u sicko!


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## Graham24 (Jul 28, 2008)

MissBC said:


> thts nothing go back and look at his first pics, just make sure your not eating at the time hahahahah


Yeah i saw those aswell, thank god i am not squimish


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

That is fcuked up


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## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

bro, I just got out too...left thigh, catheter and open wound with dressing changes nightly. It's been 4 days and the pain is still pretty bad. I have to have the catheter removed late next week or the week after and then it should heel....I am a limpink, hopeless, kid. I just try and go to the gym and do some machines, but get so frusterated. I can't believe how much liquid is still forming on the guaze, and yesterday my mom (who does the changes) said the yellow stuff is not ewhat we want to see, and I had quit a bit. I know it was from trying to do calves....I'm miserable.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Jeffreyk said:


> bro, I just got out too...left thigh, catheter and open wound with dressing changes nightly. It's been 4 days and the pain is still pretty bad. I have to have the catheter removed late next week or the week after and then it should heel....I am a limpink, hopeless, kid. I just try and go to the gym and do some machines, but get so frusterated. I can't believe how much liquid is still forming on the guaze, and yesterday my mom (who does the changes) said the yellow stuff is not ewhat we want to see, and I had quit a bit. I know it was from trying to do calves....I'm miserable.


How did you get your abcess?


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## Cyrus (Jan 6, 2009)

Phill... welcome to my hell! Have the same exact problem now unfortunatley the infection will most likeley be there... give it a few months and watch it swell right back up. So far I have had 4 surgerys like this one :S good luck though!! Ask your doctor about Co-amoxiclav anti-biotic alot better then paracetamol.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Any updates phill?


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## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

Cyrus said:


> Phill... welcome to my hell! Have the same exact problem now unfortunatley the infection will most likeley be there... give it a few months and watch it swell right back up. So far I have had 4 surgerys like this one :S good luck though!! Ask your doctor about Co-amoxiclav anti-biotic alot better then paracetamol.


Youve had 4??? I had mine 6 days ago, it was drained, packed, and a drain tube inserted. i spent the night in the hospital and released the next day. I was informed yesterday to stop the packing so it can begin to hear and that he would make an attempt to remove the drain tube Thursday if he feels its ok. So that would be 8 days. The pain is still pretty tough and limping around is horrible. I didn't see how it could get much worse. I am making it to the gym, but obviously very few free weights and absolutely no legs. Is my scenerio as bad?


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## chrismac (May 4, 2008)

Jeez!

I am seriously thinking about quitting the AAS after reading this again!


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## Cyrus (Jan 6, 2009)

Jeffreyk said:


> Youve had 4??? I had mine 6 days ago, it was drained, packed, and a drain tube inserted. i spent the night in the hospital and released the next day. I was informed yesterday to stop the packing so it can begin to hear and that he would make an attempt to remove the drain tube Thursday if he feels its ok. So that would be 8 days. The pain is still pretty tough and limping around is horrible. I didn't see how it could get much worse. I am making it to the gym, but obviously very few free weights and absolutely no legs. Is my scenerio as bad?


Your scenario wasnt as bad as mine. Unfortunatley my one was around my tailbone area so i couldnt actually do anything apart from lye down on my front for 2 whole weeks. When they drain the infection there is usually a 95% chance of the surgeons not draining all of it or missing abit. When this happens, as the new flesh re-grows it gets infected again :S. I was ment to have my 5th surgery last month but the doctors refused straight away as I had caught MRSA in the hospital.. it keeps getting ****ing worse and worse. The best thing to do is to try and keep the area clean and DRY. Important to keep it DRY as possible. If you have hair around your **** like i do.. shave it asap. I was fortunate enough not to have a tube inserted thank god!! As they went deep to the bone with mine and ripped out all the flesh. But the only good thing that came out of this was the unlimited supply of morphine.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh my, just when you thought you heard the worst story.....wow.


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## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

Oh my thats sounds bloody terrible mate


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

just thought id post a pic of my leg after having abccess removed.

spent 6 days in hospital and had to go to theatre twice, infection got that bad my whole ley turned bright red right down to foot. 1st 2 days in hospital i was delirious, completly out of it.

after all this, no weights for 4 weeks and no food im down 2 1/2 stone, i lost so much, arms from 19'' to 17 1/2'', shoulders and chest disapeared, so gutted, was on keto before this happened and i was looking ace and strong too.

oh well have to re avaluate and think about what to do????


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## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

nigs66 said:


> just thought id post a pic of my leg after having abccess removed.
> 
> spent 6 days in hospital and had to go to theatre twice, infection got that bad my whole ley turned bright red right down to foot. 1st 2 days in hospital i was delirious, completly out of it.
> 
> ...


 it was infected before you went in right? I think the drain helps it get all of it so hopefully this will be my one time deal.....I workoutout but its covered in layered, I change the dressing afterwards and keep it dry...plus anti biotics are key


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Jeffreyk said:


> it was infected before you went in right? I think the drain helps it get all of it so hopefully this will be my one time deal.....I workoutout but its covered in layered, I change the dressing afterwards and keep it dry...plus anti biotics are key


yeah after i shot 2ml of t.enanthate it got sore, then more sore and red, went to docs, put me on antibiotics, did nowt, 1 week later i was in agony and really feeling bad so off to hospital, they opened it drained/cleaned all stuff out left it open for 2 days then i had it closed.

i got a serious needle phobia now.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

is this all from sh.tty gear or bad water based gear like winny?

i had a dream last night i had a massive abscess on my thigh so i thought i'd re-check into this thread


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

what do you think caused this then

as you have said you have never had any problems like this

do you think it was something to do with the winny too


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

if ppl are complaining about winny jabs aint it true that u can drink winstrol wouldnt that be better if that statement is true

never really fancied it myself and im guessing its harsher on the body as its not going straight into the muscle


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

nigs66 said:


> oh well have to re avaluate and think about what to do????


Well, by the looks of it, you dont need any HCG. :whistling:

Muscle memory is a awesome thing, that will come back almost as fast as you lost it.

Chin up mate.

Sorry to hear.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

glanzav said:


> if ppl are complaining about winny jabs aint it true that u can drink winstrol wouldnt that be better if that statement is true
> 
> never really fancied it myself and im guessing its harsher on the body as its not going straight into the muscle


Yah, you can drink winny.

The water based gears tend to give more problems than the oil based gears.


----------



## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

nigs66 said:


> yeah after i shot 2ml of t.enanthate it got sore, then more sore and red, went to docs, put me on antibiotics, did nowt, 1 week later i was in agony and really feeling bad so off to hospital, they opened it drained/cleaned all stuff out left it open for 2 days then i had it closed.
> 
> i got a serious needle phobia now.


 hes not closing mine...wants it to heal from the inside out....hope and pray to get the tube out today and then have it heal closed in a week or so....Im so sick of hobbling in pain


----------



## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

Jeffreyk said:


> hes not closing mine...wants it to heal from the inside out....hope and pray to get the tube out today and then have it heal closed in a week or so....Im so sick of hobbling in pain


 got the tube for another two weeks but he said it's going to close by then and then they will just remove the tube....not a big deal, just changing the padding sucks....


----------



## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

mines all healed up now, and feeling ok, been out walking in hills everyday and did a few sets of light squats(60kg) other day, all felt ok.

are you still on antibiotics, i was on 6 days intra v of 4grams of antib/every 6 hours, then when i got home i had 7 days worth of a/biotics to take orally.

all done now.

wish you a speedy recovery mate.


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## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

nigs66 said:


> mines all healed up now, and feeling ok, been out walking in hills everyday and did a few sets of light squats(60kg) other day, all felt ok.
> 
> are you still on antibiotics, i was on 6 days intra v of 4grams of antib/every 6 hours, then when i got home i had 7 days worth of a/biotics to take orally.
> 
> ...


 thanks bro...Ive been training upper and moving around since Day 1, just in a little bit of pain....gash is still pretty promident, but healing and itching....how long were you out before doing legs...I am thinking I got two more weeks, 3 in totoal


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## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

MY DUDE IS TRYING TO TELL ME i ****ED UP AND IT WOULD HAVE GONE down by itself!!! It was 10 friggn days and it got worse each day...I could barely walk.....fing prop! Never again. He's says it was a sterile abscess and would have eventually gone down. Man if you dont take care of it, it could be fatal!

Am I crazy?


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## volatileacid (Dec 28, 2005)

arghh - I still don't geddit :confused1: I must be a dumb ass, but Phil obviously knows what he's doing when it comes to jabbing - so what went wrong here precisely?

As abscesses are caused by bacteria, did the bacteria get in via the needle/skin or was it the gear? People here are talking about Winstrol/Water - why is that such an issue?

I'm sorry, but if someone can just clear this up - i'd be grateful. Phil if you read this - what would you have done differently? Cheers.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

The word abscess describes the condition, not the cause.

An abscess is a closed pocket, usually of pus, which the body encapsulates. The encapsulation reaction at the site is typically painful and hot and accompanied by a raised body temperature and even fever.

Abscesses are typically caused by bacteria which proliferate in a pore or wound like an injection site. If the body does not encapsulate them and neutralise one successfully it can grow and its contents can enter the blood stream and cause blood poisoning which can prove fatal.

But the body can also try to encapsulate a pocket of excipient which is sterile. There may still be an appreciable encapsulation reaction, but gradually a sterile abscess will be absorbed.

To prevent sterile - and indeed infected - abscesses it is best to massage the site after injection to disperse the gear well.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Prodiver said:


> The word abscess describes the condition, not the cause.
> 
> An abscess is a closed pocket, usually of pus, which the body encapsulates. The encapsulation reaction at the site is typically painful and hot and accompanied by a raised body temperature and even fever.
> 
> ...


Damn, lovin this post............Impressive mate......I like that alot......reps, and respect......


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## Jeffreyk (Jan 4, 2009)

volatileacid said:


> arghh - I still don't geddit :confused1: I must be a dumb ass, but Phil obviously knows what he's doing when it comes to jabbing - so what went wrong here precisely?
> 
> As abscesses are caused by bacteria, did the bacteria get in via the needle/skin or was it the gear? People here are talking about Winstrol/Water - why is that such an issue?
> 
> I'm sorry, but if someone can just clear this up - i'd be grateful. Phil if you read this - what would you have done differently? Cheers.


 he, whatabout ,me :confused1: ???

jokn' but Ive been around....


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

That does make me think twice about jabbin in future....

Thought about it... moved on


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Thought it was about time i posted again - its now about 14 weeks since i went into hospital and had my abscess drained.

Wound has completely healed up - it was fully healed after about 12 weeks (ie no 'open' wound) - still enjoying being able to have a nice soak in the bath after training!!

Iv developed a strange and slightly concerning habit of dropping my trousers and pulling down my pants to show everyone my ass though - i didnt usd to do this before - honest!

I have a pretty impressive scar - which i will photograph and send to Hackski to see if he can post it up for me - maybe a before and after would be good - i know you all like the really gory pictures!!

Good news is i tried my posing trunks on the other week and the scar is not visibile - although i have quite a deep indent in my right glute - i think when i next diet down to stupidly low levels of body fat it will hardly show.

Training back on track - had my third absolutely full bore leg workout tonight, pre-exhausted with drop set extensions, then full depth leg press and squats with seated leg culrs, stiff leg deads and lying leg curls and a giant set for calves (had been doing extensions and seated leg curls and calves for prob 5 to 6 weeks prior to this).

Back on a good basic mass gaining course as from last week- D'bol, deca, test - it feels good to be "normal" after over 3 months of being a member of the sub-species of ****-sapiens!

Diet good, motivation good, sleep and rest good - oh yeah - lifes good - add one unpleasant experience to the list - pick yourself up and carry on!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Fire away Phil, I will post all pics you send me mate.........


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## nigs66 (Jul 25, 2007)

Jeffreyk said:


> thanks bro...Ive been training upper and moving around since Day 1, just in a little bit of pain....gash is still pretty promident, but healing and itching....how long were you out before doing legs...I am thinking I got two more weeks, 3 in totoal


i trained mine lightly about 6 days after stiches came out, i got real bad scar tissue, it's feels horrible to touch :-(

using bio oil every night after bath to help with this.


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## saidtomyself (May 17, 2006)

Just skimmed the whole post, damn there are some bad stories knocking about!

Friend of mine was in hospital a few years back as he had a paracite in his foot, ate all the flesh off the top his foot and toes, on seeing Phils axe wound its a close call on who has the most gruesome photo's.

Reps for Phil's honestly and openess in telling a truly horific story.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Good to hear your doing better Phil, and yes you did drop your trousers a few times when I saw you at the last show lol

Good luck with the cycle and training you'll be back to your old self in no time.


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## Big_Nik (Jan 19, 2009)

i am new to the whole body building sceene just thinking of doing my first stack of roids i must say i wish i had not seen this thread as now i am totaly put off with injecting how common are these type of injurys and if u just take oral roids can u achieve the same size ? i would like to know what are the benifits of injecting over taking oraly might be a stupid question but like i say i am a noob thanks guys

great to see ur on the ment mate if i have half ur dedication i am sure i will achieve my goal size.


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## judge-dred (Feb 11, 2009)

OMG thats bad


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## Macca 1976 (Sep 16, 2008)

After seeing that mate I will never inject steroids!!! def been put off .

That is one nasty mother of a scar, hope you never have to go through that again and good luck with future comps.


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## AlphaMale888 (Feb 25, 2009)

Good god. Thanks for sharing man


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## phosphor (Feb 11, 2009)

I am weak as it is, I will deff stick to dbol or superdrol. Thanks for the thread, it just took me two days to get to the bottom of the first page, but I am glad that I have read it all.


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## steven01uk (Jan 22, 2008)

well i was abit nervous about injections anyway and after reading this and seeing the pic i think it has put me off trying them all together. phill was saying even if you take all the necessary precautions there is still a chance of it happening well i bet that i would be the unlucky one!


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Some interesting reactions there from people - I suppose in some ways im glad if it makes some people think twice as risk of abscess aside steroids are serious meds and not to be messed around with.

However that been said i would still always take injectables over heavy oral courses every time cos of the extra toxicity of orals.

I was just VERY UNLUCKY - it was probably a combination of things:

- I had been dieting hard for 10 whole months - so my immune system and natural resilience was about fcuked.

- I mixed oil and water based gear in the same barrel - maybe this was a factor?

- The medical professionals i saw kept turning me away for a whole week before i was treated - this must have made the infection an awful lot worse.

- Maybe i wasnt as 100% careful with the cleanliness of the shot as i could have been - i bet i didnt wipe the top of the multidose - id done so may bloody shots i was getting lazy.

Should my story put you off? - yes and no:

- if you fancy using steroids cos you cant be bothered to train hard and eat well and do your cardio etc etc then yes it should put you off - they are not a wonder drug that will transform you into your dream physique in a few weeks to look good on the beach or in the night club, they are medicinal products with risks.

If on the other hand you eat well, train consistantly, and love the sport of body building then go for it - but just be careful!!

Im now 4 weeks into a nice basic course - racking up size & strength gains the likes of which iv not seen for years, back on test enan & deca - 3 shots a week - nice & simple - LOVING IT!!!!


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## Spangle1187 (Jul 27, 2006)

Great to hear you are back and that you are training again. I think you hit the nail on the head, anyone who is not 100% on board with the level of dedication needed will now be turned away and I think that is a good thing. We all have times when we ask silly questions because of not researching enough, well this is an alarm call, are you sure that this is the right apth for you. Thanks for sharing the story


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## MissBC (Apr 29, 2008)

PICS PICS PICS


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Phil B said:


> Some interesting reactions there from people - I suppose in some ways im glad if it makes some people think twice as risk of abscess aside steroids are serious meds and not to be messed around with.
> 
> However that been said i would still always take injectables over heavy oral courses every time cos of the extra toxicity of orals.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the honesty, Phil.

You certainly should have had better more immediate treatment!

The importance of good sterile technique can't be over-emphasised.

It's easy to get lazy doing lots of shots (I've done it myself) - but we won't always get away with it!

Hopefully members will read through the sticky on jabbing to learn a good sterile technique...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Water based gears are pretty notorious for abcesses.

I can think of no less than two people that had abcesses used water based gear.


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Just in process of E-mailing some pics to Hackski - the main motivator being that Miss BC seems so keen to see some more pics of my bum!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Done mate.

Oh, and nice ass too....  .....lol


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## phosphor (Feb 11, 2009)

That obviously looks alot better, how long has it taken completely from being admitted to hospital to now. Are you able to now fully do a proper gym routine.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

hey phil...that pic looks like its come along nicely...i'm glad you healed...i take it no ongoing problems/hindrances???

gotta say...looks like a lucky one and a nice healing job!!!!

how you feeling these days...can you train at a high level still...etc????


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## noturbo (Oct 27, 2006)

Looks much better :thumbup1: Glad it healed well mate!


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## Simon01 (Feb 23, 2009)

Oh my god i have never seen anything like that before. Feel sorry for ya mate.


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## edgey (Feb 7, 2009)

makes mine look like a little graze


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## jock_071279 (May 24, 2007)

Phil are you still jabbing in the glutes or have to changed sites ?


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## newdur (Dec 8, 2008)

mate it makes me feel lucky that i was seen and treated that same day went to the docs and within 1.5hr i was on the op table getting it cut out

its been two weeks since the op and even thou i have a open wound i have no pain what so ever

it was a pain in the backside(no pun ment)going to the hospital evey day to get it cleaned and the dressings cleaned

ian


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Wow that last pic really brings home the importance of prompt treatment! Looks like what mine may have been if they had treated it when i first went for help!

Personally im back to full strength and then some - id go as far as to say at my all time best in terms of strength and probably size, been working hard on basic movements heavy weights in 6 - 9 rep range and growing the best i ever had - i can do stiff leg deads and squats and leg press with no problems in the glute so i giuess over all im lucky to have recovered as i have!


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## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

Hope you heal well.

Best regards.


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## fourX (Apr 21, 2009)

phil, mate your a machine......definitely a shark bite if ever ive seen one! mutha!

hope the healing is coming along.....great posts and info from everyone


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## Extremesupps (Mar 13, 2008)

Phil are using anything on the Scar to try and minimise how it looks? if not i would recommend http://www.bio-oil-direct.co.uk/ one of the few products that i have seen have an effect in a clinical setting and i know how vain you body building types are ;-)


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Extremesupps said:


> Phil are using anything on the Scar to try and minimise how it looks? if not i would recommend http://www.bio-oil-direct.co.uk/ one of the few products that i have seen have an effect in a clinical setting and i know how vain you body building types are ;-)


Yes and no! - I have got a pot of bio-oil on the bed side table but im hopeless at remembering to use it!

I maybe use it once a week if that - i know thats really dumb but i tend to shower or bath & dry off and then throw some clothes on & it would surely rub into the clothes, maybe i should walk round naked more! LOL


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

Phil B said:


> Wow that last pic really brings home the importance of prompt treatment! Looks like what mine may have been if they had treated it when i first went for help!
> 
> Personally im back to full strength and then some - id go as far as to say at my all time best in terms of strength and probably size, been working hard on basic movements heavy weights in 6 - 9 rep range and growing the best i ever had - i can do stiff leg deads and squats and leg press with no problems in the glute so i giuess over all im lucky to have recovered as i have!


nice one phil,glad to hear things are ok...

you could say very lucky,i've seen with my own eyes some bad stuff and folk who havent come back from big open wounds,gaining serious infection...most people having amputations on limbs etc!!!!

nice to see your training and moving forwards...wow,sounds like the training is right up there,bet your bloody happy to be back training etc...what a new leash of life...nice to hear somebody recovered and moving on,brilliant!!!!


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## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

Glad to hear you are healing well.

Thanks for sharing all with us.


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Happy to share in the hope it helps someone else avoid a similar - or worse - experience, only trouble is at shows now people asking me to show them my ass!!

Just for the record ill only show you my ass if youre young, female and willing to show me your ass first!


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## bentleymiller (May 11, 2009)

We had two guys in with abcesses a few weeks ago. Both were experienced at jabbing. We can only put it down to a rogue batch of winny so please be careful guys.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Water based gears are more prone to abcess's.

I know two guys on this site that got one from winny suspension.


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## 71081 (Apr 23, 2009)

very scarey stuff. Good article, thanks for putting it all on. Hope everyone gets better, good health to all.


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## Mort (Jun 24, 2009)

Dude that is the craziest thing I have ever seen. I did not realise abcesses could be so nasty. Get well and thanks for the warning.


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## HGH (Apr 8, 2009)

Scarey stuff you were lucky its somewhere not too visible. Personally i think your immune system struggled to recover whilst in diet mode and was'nt given the best chance to recover. Its things like this with forums that is good education to the people out there. Good luck with the recovery.


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## forumpophouse (Aug 22, 2009)

I've seen some nasty ones in my day but damn!

That is one of the scarier things I've ever seen...


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## impulse (Aug 22, 2009)

that is pretty scary!


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## Testoholic (Jun 13, 2009)

Phil B said:


> Yes and no! - I have got a pot of bio-oil on the bed side table but im hopeless at remembering to use it!
> 
> I maybe use it once a week if that - i know thats really dumb but i tend to shower or bath & dry off and then throw some clothes on & it would surely rub into the clothes, maybe i should walk round naked more! LOL


phil have you got any recent pics of how it looks? im recovering from abcess op but unlike you they never stitched it up. 7 weeks after op im still recovering and looks like its gonna be a pretty unsightly scar. mines on my left quad. also through your experience how long would you say it will be before i could train legs again?


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Testaholic said:


> phil have you got any recent pics of how it looks? im recovering from abcess op but unlike you they never stitched it up. 7 weeks after op im still recovering and looks like its gonna be a pretty unsightly scar. mines on my left quad. also through your experience how long would you say it will be before i could train legs again?


I never had any stitches done mate - abscesses are not stitched as a rule cos of chance of re-infection.

I had my op early october last year - was in hospital for 10 days cos they were worried about chance of re-infection & wanted to see how it started healing.

I was back in gym probably 3 weeks later doing upper body stuff - but avoiding bending (stretching glutes) and made sure to get weights passed or pick them up off benches/ out the rack etc to avoid straining the wound. I tended to train the evening before a dressing change so the wound would be cleaned up soon after sweating.

I reckon i got back into leg training around 8 weeks post op - just doing extensions first couple of sessions then adding in seated hamstring curls light and high reps and then squats in power rack just doing top 1/3 of movement to avoid stretching glutes too much.

By February (4 months - i was at full strength and ready to start a new course - iv had no problems whatso ever.

As your wound is in your leg you may need a slightly different approach - just take it slow and progress gently - if something hurts dont do it - go mental on your other parts and very easy on your legs for a few months - wont do any harm and you may even bring up some other body parts cos you havent got all the recuperation time taken by hard leg sessions!

I would also run Growth all the way through the healing process im sure it helped my healing rate, also keep your diet top quality, and supplement things like glutamine, zinc, vits & mins etc - all the things your body needs to heal!

Ill see if i have any pics, all the best!


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## Testoholic (Jun 13, 2009)

Phil B said:


> I never had any stitches done mate - abscesses are not stitched as a rule cos of chance of re-infection.
> 
> I had my op early october last year - was in hospital for 10 days cos they were worried about chance of re-infection & wanted to see how it started healing.
> 
> ...


thanks for the reply mate, similar story with me really http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/69376-abcess-updated.html

i was in hospital for 7 days. 1 month after my op i was given the choice of it being stitched up as they were sure it was infection free and they knew i desperatley needed to get back to work, so i went in for surgery again but they decided not to stitch it up, just cut it down a bit as it was over granulating. ive been told im healing at an incredible rate, (which isnt actually a good thing) because im young and probably because of the test in me!

ive just started back in upper body training and doing ok, as you said i suppose the good thing being i can fully concentrate on my arms, chest, which are coming along nicely.

im not sure when i could ever train legs though? its been 7 1/2 weeks and im told could be another 6 weeks recovery???

as for the scar think its gonna be pretty bad but ill just have to accept it. thanks for the advice mate, havent really had a lot of feedback from docs ect so nice to talk to somebody thats had the same experience


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## T-Flex (Dec 6, 2009)

Vince said:


> Now the cause could be 1 of many but it's reccomended not to inject Winstrol (water based) with an oil based suspension since the water based is meant to be released in the bloodstream quicker but might grt trapped in the oil based "bubble" an get infected.
> 
> Again it could have been loads of other issues to cause it...but being careful not doing this in the future will at least eliminate one.
> 
> Glad to hear youy healed fine mate


Good post.



Phil B said:


> Thought it was about time i posted again - its now about 14 weeks since i went into hospital and had my abscess drained.
> 
> Wound has completely healed up - it was fully healed after about 12 weeks (ie no 'open' wound) - still enjoying being able to have a nice soak in the bath after training!!
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you're ok and back training hard there Phil. But is there not a slight worry in the back of your mind that this could all happen again? If so, how do you deal with it? What goes through your mind now each time you jab?

Your experience does make me think twice about getting back on some stuff. However, if I do, I won't be shooting water based gear.

Also, are you saying that if these things are caught early enough, that they can be treated with antibiotics?


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## Phil B (Sep 2, 2007)

Glad to hear you're ok and back training hard there Phil. But is there not a slight worry in the back of your mind that this could all happen again? If so, how do you deal with it? What goes through your mind now each time you jab?

Your experience does make me think twice about getting back on some stuff. However, if I do, I won't be shooting water based gear.

Also, are you saying that if these things are caught early enough, that they can be treated with antibiotics?


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## Mikazagreat (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey phily, great u are back again and allright now.

how was your muscle recovery ?

also how it looks?


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## T-Flex (Dec 6, 2009)

Phil B said:


> Glad to hear you're ok and back training hard there Phil. But is there not a slight worry in the back of your mind that this could all happen again? If so, how do you deal with it? What goes through your mind now each time you jab?
> 
> Your experience does make me think twice about getting back on some stuff. However, if I do, I won't be shooting water based gear.
> 
> Also, are you saying that if these things are caught early enough, that they can be treated with antibiotics?





> Yes caught early anti biotics may have a decent chance of clearing things up for you - but would have to be very early i would imagine.
> 
> I do have slight worries about a re-occurance - but at the end of the day iv done a lot of shots before with no issues and thousands of people inject steroids every day without incident - i feel it was a combination of factors and a case of extrememly bad luck - hopefully lightning doesnt strike twice!!


Yes I totally agree, a combo of factors one of which was probably bad luck. Keep up the good work bro. Can't ever imagine having to pack it all in and look like one of the ordinary folk again eh?

T


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## MR_T (Mar 28, 2010)

woooo that has made me feel sick, starting my first jabbing cycle soon:tongue: fingers crossed nothing serious goes wrong with mine:lol:

hope your well now though:thumbup1:


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## billy_101 (Aug 24, 2010)

gross, thats what happens when UGL's dont filter right


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## Sk1nny (Jun 5, 2010)

Your a brave man carrying on like that. Big nuts on you dude.


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## chiqui (Oct 28, 2009)

well this gives me alot more respect for stff we put in our bodies!!!maybe this was a build up of scar tissue etc etc..im sure this guy was probably jabbing every muscle everyday leading up to his competition!!!bad luck man ive had a couple of bad shots like not been able to walk for 2 days but this is mad!!!ive always got antibiotics on hand just in case...better safe than sorry. p.s hope eveything is a hole!! lot better!!lol


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## jay631 (Oct 2, 2010)

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET GOD!!!

Jeee whizz man thats nasty! I hope you are on the mend I feel for you


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## wonderstar (Aug 2, 2010)

i think i have an abscess from an ingrown hair on my right tri. its tiny but has been there for a good while now, size seems to come and go but i recently removed body hair and its much more visible now. going to call the doc tomorrow to see about it. hopefully its nowt to worry about but would rather have it dealt with now.


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## bblover2012 (Aug 21, 2012)

Hi John B,

I am writing from a production company based in London, called Knickerbockerglory, I thought this might be of interest to you.

We are currently working in production on a documentary, following a UK bodybuilder for the DMAX channel (the funky sister channel of Discovery).

Over the last year we have followed our body builder transform their body, but they have hit the wall in terms of their progress as they look to break the States, and they are toying with the idea of using steroids to enhance their performance.

We are looking to give a balanced and informed argument as to whether our hero can enhance their body through steroid use, and I think they could learn a lot from your experiences!

Let me know if this appeals as would be good to have a talk at some point. Please email me at [email protected] and I can give you some more information.

Regards,

Gabriella


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## bblover2012 (Aug 21, 2012)

*Phil B sorry!


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2012)

It looks like you've been attacked with a machete! Were you off your tits on pain killers or could you feel a massive hole in your a*se?


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