# Losing weight - building muscles



## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

I've been down the bulking path for far too long now and im not seeing the results i want...i keep getting told different things for various people aswell.

So i thought i've still got this belly, and im looking to get rid of it and have visible abs, ive been eating healthy since the start of this year, when i say eating heathly i mean no junk food, no crisps choc burgers fizzy drinks etc. Surely you can understand that after 7 months without shifting the belly is very frustrating.

I've recently just been taking whey protein shakes inbetween meals which im under the impression is good because it gives the body less time to store fat??? I also go to the gym everyday for just over an hour doing 3 sets of 10 on weights, whetehr it be bicept curls, tricept pushes, benchpress etc. I dedicate 3 days a week to cardio. I go on the treadmill and run/jog (intervals) for just over 45mins. I have been doing this for just over a month. Before this i went to the gym 3 times a week and did all cardio and weights in one 2 hour session.

Can anyone recommend me a good cutting diet?

I weigh 187 pounds with a 34" waist.

Im wanting to loose all my body fat and pack on lean muscle?

I read somewhere that to cut you need to do this:

187kg x 11/13 = how much calories you need

187kg x 1.2 = how much protein you need

Is this correct?

By the way lost soul, i know you've said i should eat wholesome foods and just do cardio, but i've been down that route before, and it doesnt work!!


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

woodinator said:


> By the way lost soul, i know you've said i should eat wholesome foods and just do cardio, but i've been down that route before, and it doesnt work!!


I wouldnt expect it to either since I suggested it two weeks ago

You my friend are destined to be forever in the middle of the mediocre road to nowhere

Pick a goal, stick to it


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

Lost Soul said:


> I wouldnt expect it to either since I suggested it two weeks ago
> 
> You my friend are destined to be forever in the middle of the mediocre road to nowhere
> 
> Pick a goal, stick to it


I've tried it before you said you 2 weeks ago


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

woodinator said:


> I've tried it before you said you 2 weeks ago


sigh.....

TBH mate from your pictures you have not stuck at anything long enough. That is said with respect but your posts have show amindset around supplements, quick fixes and an iniability to embrace long term changes.

Your goals IIRc were to build your arms?

Again with all due respect you cannot have read anything of worth in the training/nutrition world to have concluded that was a good goal

Im sure you will be back to post another new start, a new goal as the last protocol didnt work but TBH you are going round in circles and will stay mediocre to poor in terms of aesthetics

alternatively you can take on board what has been said an actually make progress instead of blowing your mind with makreting and irrelevant information

all said with your best intentions at heart


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

Lost Soul said:


> sigh.....
> 
> TBH mate from your pictures you have not stuck at anything long enough. That is said with respect but your posts have show amindset around supplements, quick fixes and an iniability to embrace long term changes.
> 
> ...


I know your not mocking me intentionally but I've yet to see any pics of your body... maybe if i did i would take more note of what you say


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## JawD (Sep 15, 2004)

I think you'll find LS is one of the more informed members of the forum and gives invaluable advice. I know that, as Ive been exactly where you are now. Ive been training since October. Also have went around in circles - want to loose the stomach - so eat less - but want to build muscle - but cant if I eat less - want quicker results and so on.

The advice already given is exactly what you need to do. Get a routine, dont over complicate it, eat well, eat clean, head down and work hard. I check my progress every 3 months. Since October Ive lost about 3/4 stone but I know I have added muscle so I know I have burned fat. I cant tell looking, I never can.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

woodinator said:


> I know your not mocking me intentionally but I've yet to see any pics of your body... maybe if i did i would take more note of what you say


Right you are

Same place same time next month and the following month?

If posting pictures of myself is the stimulus for you to listen then my god you really have missed the logic.

I shall post some for you from the stage early next year, should be about the same time the same question is asked again.

just to confirm:

You need to eat clean, lose the numbers, do weights and do cardio

You pick a goal, you stick to it and dont do a U turn after a week.

I haven't mocked you or flamed you, just pointed out what 99% of people will think when they look at your picture. It looks like you havent been in a gym before and all the supplements in the world and changing goals and calculations will not change that..

You simply need to get on with the grind, for the long run with the basics 

ps - thank you Jawd

Some will listen, others though will fail through ignorance and trying to re invent the wheel with square, rectangle and hexagonal shapes only to realise the circle they were handed 3 years previously did the job just fine


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I gave myself the best part of a year to get in shape and it was the best thing i could have done, without going to mental i have lost 4 stone up to now and 8 inches off my waist, i have gone from 20st with a 40 waist to 16stone with a 32 waist now


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

Lost Soul said:


> Right you are
> 
> Same place same time next month and the following month?
> 
> ...


Yeah and if you've read any of my posts I can remember sayig i go to the gym everyday and do weights and cardio, i guess the thing with me is that im inpatient.

I have been going to the gym well over a month now everyday training different muscles etc. But when ever i post a new topic you seem to rip me for it.

Basically here is my diet:

8am 2 wheetabix and protein shake

10.30 am - 2 pieces wholemeal toast

11.30 am - protein shake

1pm - turkey sald sandwich on wholemeal bread.

2.30 pm - protein shake

3.30pm - flapjack

4.30 - 6. 00 - train in gym

6.15 - protein shake

6.45 - salmon / chicken with veg

8.45 pm - fruit or cheese with crackers

10.00 pm - 4 crackers with cheese

12 pm bed

Dunno if its any good, but im trying my best


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

Kezz said:


> I gave myself the best part of a year to get in shape and it was the best thing i could have done, without going to mental i have lost 4 stone up to now and 8 inches off my waist, i have gone from 20st with a 40 waist to 16stone with a 32 waist now


Good work mate! Thats substantial sensible weight loss! :thumb:


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

woodinator said:


> Yeah and if you've read any of my posts I can remember sayig i go to the gym everyday and do weights and cardio, i guess the thing with me is that im inpatient.
> 
> I have been going to the gym well over a month now everyday training different muscles etc. But when ever i post a new topic you seem to rip me for it.
> 
> ...


Answers it all, you have done zero reading since you last posted or the time before. I 'rip' you as people like myself try and help, provide links and info and people say "tried that" or "it doesnt work"

You have been training less than a month and have zero perception of diet.

By the book, scrawny to brawny and read it. As i said in my first, second and third + posts to you, this is all you need to do...If you cant be bothered thats cool but it will be same thing, same place, same time next month with a new feeling of failure


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

woodinator said:


> Yeah and if you've read any of my posts I can remember sayig i go to the gym everyday and do weights and cardio, i guess the thing with me is that im inpatient.
> 
> I have been going to the gym well over a month now everyday training different muscles etc. But when ever i post a new topic you seem to rip me for it.
> 
> ...


Is this meal what you would consider wholesome food?

There is a distinct lack of fruit and veggies.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

After reading the thread it would seem that you don't stick with anything for to long and expect instant results which is not going to happen, i will give you my tuppence worth on your diet to show you where you are going wrong but i have to agree with alot that LS has said....you must choose a path and stick with it.....for months not weeks.



woodinator said:


> Basically here is my diet:
> 
> 8am 2 wheetabix and protein shake *- how many scoop's protein? you need some good fats a better meal would be 4 whole eggs 2 egg white and 2 slices wholemeal toast*
> 
> ...


sorry mate but this is not your best, you have been a member on here for a little while now so you have access to alot of threads that give templates of diets to lose weight a lot of them i have written and out of all those you have seen how many of them let you eat simple carbs from crackers in your last two meals?

basic to losing weight are to eat less Cal's than you burn simple really, a good basic template is to eat a solid/liquid/solid/liquid/PWO-liquid/solid meal plan.

eat 1-1.5g per lb of body weight in protein - so for you 187 - 280g per day

Start with 1g of carbs per lb of body weight per day so for you 187g this will need adjusting but you will need to make this call as you see the results.

start with .25g per lb of body weight in Fats for you this is 47.5g per day you will need to adjust this as your carbs fall so you have the energy to train and perform cardio plus good fats help the body to release bad fat.....


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

ok what if i just eat chicken then at lunch and afternoon snack?

By flapjack, i mean a plain one, no topping etc, bought from a shop.

I have 2 scoops whey in the morning.

So how bout tomorrow i do this:

Breakfast - 3 eggs whites and one whole egg with 2 pieces wholemeal toast

10.30 - 2 scoops protein and a tbsp peanut butter

1.00 - chicken breast with salad

3.30 - 1 tbsp peanut butter and 1 scoop protein shake

5.00 - 6.00 GYM (Weights and cardio afterwards walk 3 miles say?? I have been running 3 miles previously but i hear that its better to lose fat by keeping the heart rate down?

6.15 - 4 crackers with cheese and a scoop protein

7.15 - salmon, handfull of prawns and two smallish jacket potatoes or rice and chicken, with some frozen veg?

8.30 - fruit (kiwi, strawberries, blueberries etc)

10.00 (same as above)

my goal is to lose belly and better my physique


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## Belle1984 (Jul 26, 2008)

woodinator said:


> ok what if i just eat chicken then at lunch and afternoon snack?
> 
> By flapjack, i mean a plain one, no topping etc, bought from a shop.
> 
> ...


Hey W, look im pretty new to this myself.. but dont think you should really be eating any carbs before bedtime if youre trying to loose BF (esp. fruit = sugar).. how about cutting out the cheese at 6.15 and eating fruit there instead, will help refeed your muscle stores.... maybe do the same for youre preWO meal, incorporate fruit instead of fat which will help fuel your workout.

Hopefully that helps... but im sure others will have better advice to give


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## muscle head (May 19, 2008)

Looks ok, but you need to work out your carbs and protein, how much of each? gram wise.

You should if you want to get your body working,up your protein to around 150grms per day, and drop your carbs to well below that, get your body to use your fat as energy.

Good luck.

R.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

woodinator said:


> ok what if i just eat chicken then at lunch and afternoon snack?
> 
> By flapjack, i mean a plain one, no topping etc, bought from a shop.
> 
> ...


you are not going to lose your belly eating fruit before bedtime did you read my last post? no carbs after your post workout shake just protein/veg and fats

as for your PWO shake you need liquid carbs not crackers as i mentioned before.

your diet is upside down you eat mostly protein and fats in the morning then in the afternoon evening you eat simple carbs??

6 meals a day

carbs in first 2-3 meals

weigh all your food raw

no flapjacks from shops no matter if they are plain

spend the next 2 days weighing all your food before cooking and stop with this handfull of this and that, how can you shed the fat if you don't know what values you are eating a day? for example how many cals do is it take to sustain your current weight? how many cals does this diet give you?


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> you are not going to lose your belly eating fruit before bedtime did you read my last post? no carbs after your post workout shake just protein/veg and fats
> 
> as for your PWO shake you need liquid carbs not crackers as i mentioned before.
> 
> ...


I weigh 85 kilograms which works out at 187 pounds i think. SO that would mean i need to have 187 grams of protein a day right?

Yeah i did read your post hence why i added peanut butter and protein shakes where you told me too. And i didnt think fruit were classed as carbs....i thought they were just classes as fruit

By liquid carbs, what do you mean??? I dont understand?

Also do you mean after the workut i shouldnt eat any carbs?? I thought it one of your posts you said potatoes are ok after workout

I need some examples of where to get good fats from, as i dont have a clue, and so far on the forum all ive seen people say is fish oil tablets and salmon

I've been trying to get a diet sorted for ages but then everyone has an opinion of what to do, you only need to look at this thread to see why im going around in circles... i dont see why people are having a go at me, ok i may be naive, but i dont come on the forum 24/7, only now and then.

Everyone started somewhere, and i thought the whole idea of a public forum was to ask questions?


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

Good fats are from egg yorks, almonds, coconut oil and the rest you stated. Thats what I have in my diet. Pretty much any fats that are not trans fatty fats and MCT type seem to be the best!


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## danny_j (Jun 6, 2008)

try eating Eggs/Oats in the morning

Shake & nuts/Peanut butter mid morning

rice/veg & chicken for lunch

Oats/Eggs Pre Work out

Shake/nuts/peanut butter post work out

Chicken & veg evening meal


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

woodinator said:


> Yeah i did read your post hence why i added peanut butter and protein shakes where you told me too. And i didnt think fruit were classed as carbs....i thought they were just classes as fruit?


fruit is a carb source as they provide fructose which is a simple carb so a big no no before bed.



woodinator said:


> By liquid carbs, what do you mean??? I dont understand? ?


carbs that are in a liquid form or can be made into a liquid form like Maltodextrin powder or dextrose powder or even a pre-made up PWO shake like Extreme build and recover



woodinator said:


> Also do you mean after the workut i shouldnt eat any carbs?? I thought it one of your posts you said potatoes are ok after workout?


there are 2 thoughts on this yes you need carbs to replace glycogen you have used during your workout but on low carb days many including myself have a protein and fat meal/shake the choice is yours.



woodinator said:


> I need some examples of where to get good fats from, as i dont have a clue, and so far on the forum all ive seen people say is fish oil tablets and salmon?


oily fish(salmon, mackeral etc)

whole eggs

peanut butter

olive oil

Nuts(Almonds and wallnuts are good)

fish oil capsules



woodinator said:


> Everyone started somewhere, and i thought the whole idea of a public forum was to ask questions?


yes it is and no one is haveing a go at you, you will get many views on dieting as like you saty it is a public forum so you will get many opinions your job now is to choose the diet you want to acheive the goals.

weigh your foods so you know what you are eating

eat 6 meals a day

eat carbs in the first part of the day only

eat 1-1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight

eat good fats with each meal

do cardio 5 times a week


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

OK so heres what i did today i know its ideal but i forgot my peanut butter in work!!!

8am - 3 egg whites, 1 whole egg, 2 slices wholemeal toast with honey

10.30 - protein shake

1.00 - chicken breast

4.00 - protein shake

5- 6 **GYM**

I did 30mins weight lifting (3 sets of 20 on each excercise) and 30min uphill walk

I was knackered i think coz of the lack of carbs during the day?

6.30 - 2 chicken deli slices

7.30 - 2 salmon fillets and bowl full of frozen veg

10.00 protein shake

what do you think of my excercises and eating etc?


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

Is there an alternative for instead of having peanut butter??

I literally came 1 heave away from being sick at my desk in work.

Anyway, heres a diet i thought up:

8am - 3 egg whites 1 egg 2 slices wholemeal toast

10.30 - 10g whey protein + 10g soya protein (blended) and 150g blueberries

1.00 - 185g chicken breast (cooked in pan using fry lite spray) and pot of frozen veg

3.30 - ***NEED HELP HERE AS I READ YOU SHOULDNT EAT CARBS AFTER 2PM ON A HALF DAY CARB DIET***

5.00 - 6.00 **GYM**

6.30 - 1 scoop whey Protein Shake

7.15 - **DINNER** 2 salmon fillets with 2 tbsp olive oil and bowl full of veg?

8.00 - **NEED HELP HERE**

10.00 - Whey protein shake


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

woodinator said:


> Is there an alternative for instead of having peanut butter??
> 
> I literally came 1 heave away from being sick at my desk in work.
> 
> ...


So far you have too much protein not enough fats imo. I think the above is better. Id wait for Paul or someone to back it up before you commit.


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

adesign said:


> So far you have too much protein not enough fats imo. I think the above is better. Id wait for Paul or someone to back it up before you commit.


OK mate, cheers...im trying hard to get this diet locked down! But theres always things im doing wrong etc! I just want to be able 2 see my abs to draw attention away from my pectus excavatum!

Aswell at that though, id like to feel comfortable in my own body.


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

I know what you mean mate. I started my diet around two months ago went from being embarrassed to pretty proud already. My advice would be to follow the above but cut out one of the shakes. Keep as active as possible and try to put it all at the back of your mind.

http://www.t-nation.com/article/features/the_4_stages_of_mental_mastery&cr=

Stage #1: Unconscious Incompetence - You're doing something wrong and you don't even know it. Blissful ignorance.

Stage #2: Conscious Incompetence - You're doing something wrong, you know it, but you either can't or won't change.

Stage #3: Conscious Competence - You're doing something right or productive, but it's a struggle. You make the right choices and do the things that will lead you to your goal, but it's a daily mental battle.

Stage #4: Unconscious Competence - You're doing everything right without really having to think about it. The right actions and decisions are now second nature.

We all want to get to stage 4 :]


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

I'd say im between 2 and 3 then!!


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

By the way, are you doing a carb cycle???? And could you pst up your diet?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ok so your goal is fat loss....

you have 2 main choices in my eyes...

carb cycling or a keto style diet with a carb meal at the weekends.

Carb cycling:

Mon - Low

Tues - Med

Wed - Low

Thur - Med

Fri - Low

Sat - Refeed

Sun - Low

Low day = 50g carbs. 100g fats, 250g protein

Med day = 200g carbs, 75g fats, 250g protein

Refeed day = 600g carbs, 50g fats, 250g protein (also include cheat meals)

Keto style:

a basic template is

Meal 1 - 6 whole eggs

Meal 2 - 2 scoops whey protein + 25g almonds

Meal 3 - 200g chicken + veg + olive oil

Meal 4 - 200g salmon or mackerel + veg

Meal 5 - 2 scoops whey protein + 2tbsp peanut butter

Meal 6 - 6 whole eggs

this are just ideas for you to try and adjust...


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

Im doing standard keto diet and one carb meal a month. Although in reality I have had ice cream a few times  I pretty much follow what Pscarb carb said as he outlined mine!


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> ok so your goal is fat loss....
> 
> you have 2 main choices in my eyes...
> 
> ...


Could i swop meal 4 and meal 5 around?

Only i go to the gym after having consumed my 4th meal, which would mean when i come back from the gym i wouldnt be able to eat anything?


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## adesign (Jun 10, 2008)

"this are just ideas for you to try and adjust..." 

I dont see whats wrong with that myself.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

woodinator said:


> Could i swop meal 4 and meal 5 around?
> 
> Only i go to the gym after having consumed my 4th meal, which would mean when i come back from the gym i wouldnt be able to eat anything?


meal 5 is for PWO so you get the protein in fast a solid meal would not do this, how soon after meal 4 do you train?


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## woodinator (Mar 22, 2008)

I leave work at 4.30...normally in gym for 4.45, last meal i eat before that is at 3.30...and thats just a protein shake and a tbsp of the minging peanut butter stuff


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

in that case have the salmon at 3.30 then your protein and fats after training


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## MartialArtMan (May 28, 2007)

65289K. You'd be better off starting a new thread rather than high jacking this one. You've also posted the exact same question on another thread, this is usually frowned upon by forum mods/ admins.

Just a heads up. Finding your way around forums isn't always easy if you're not familiar. 

(My apologies if I am stepping on mods toes :innocent: )


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

65289K said:


> too bad these idiot mods couldn't have given me a heads up for a new comer instead of deleting my entry...no biggie on too the next


Leaving us so soon?

What a shame you never gave us the opportunity to share your wisdom! :whistling:


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