# First Cycle Log - Oral Tbol



## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Hi Guys,

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I took a look around for cycle logs but couldnt see anywhere specific..that might just be me being blind though! Anyway, I'm currently 2 and a bit weeks into my first cycle and I wanted to post a log of my progress and sides etc etc as I found the most useful thing when deciding what to run for my first cycle was reading logs of other peoples experiences.

So, a little background first:

Cycle Info: Oral Tbol @ 60mg ed for 5-7 weeks (I have 3 pots of 100 10mg tabs, so im debating whether to end this cycle at 5 weeks and save 1 pot to kickstart something a little stronger next year)

Why Tbol: Same reason everyone else new to aas seem to be drawn to oral only cycles, popping pills seems a lot less stressful than injections (whether this is actually the case or not is debateable) and it also seemed sensible to try something with a limited androgenic effect before going ahead with Test. If i run a second cycle though judging from my time so far i would be inclined to inject and run a test based cycle. As for why Tbol, it had a more mild side effect profile to dbol or winny and from reports it was possible to run a cycle of it without your libido crashing and burning in comparison to anavar.

Cycle Goals: Ill be bulking for the 5 weeks at around 500-1000cals above surplus with around 250g of protein a day, my diet isn't amazingly clean but it includes lots of milk meat and veggies

Other Supplements: Cod liver oil, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, Zinc

PCT: Will be running clomid + nolva tapering for 2-3 weeks after cycle, plus milk thistle after cycle too, PCT diet will be maintenance




My Stats:

Age: 25

Training time: around 1 year seriously, prior to this year I did a lot of cycling, track running and squash playing so i've always been in decent cardio shape.

Starting weight: 91.5kg (202lbs) @ 178cm / 5ft 10 (around 18-20% bf as i've been on a perma bulk for around a year now)

Pre-Cycle Bloods: Test and free test slap bang in middle of normal liver enzymes very slightly elevated

Starting BP: 110/50 mornings 120/60 evenings

Starting 1RMs and 3x5's:

Bench - 87.5kg (75kg 3x5)

OHP - 60kg (52.5 3x5)

Squat - 120kg (100 3x5)

Deadlift - 170kg (145 1x5)

I'll be posting weight, sides, strength gains in weekly blocks


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Week 1

Started off with 30mg spaced throughout day just to check for any kind of reactions, no symptoms so ramped up over next couple of days to 60mg, felt pretty gassy and nauseous with some anxious feelings in the evenings (probably just looking for things to be honest) felt fine otherwise. Noticed balls acheing like I'd been kicked a couple of times over first few days but that and the slight nausea and anxiety disappeared after 5/6 days i suspect as my blood levels of tbol became stable.

No strength gains at gym, nothing to report appearance wise either although a couple of measurement are up a cm (bicep and shoulder).

Libido through the roof on days 6+7 never felt so horny. Gained 1.6kg over the week which is odd as i haven't changed my diet.


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Week 2

Some strength gains, bench went from 75kg x5 to 77.5kg x10 over 2 sessions, other lifts up similarly

Back pumps arrived, really annoying when squatting and deadlifting, even get them plus calf pumps when walking up hills or standing for too long. The other pumps are sweet though. Libido has returned towards normal but definitely not decreased at all still getting morning wood etc.

Bloodpressure seems to have stabilised at around 125/60 in the mornings and 140/65 in the evenings, high but not too bad. Noticed been getting a bit more frustrated at things or maybe its all in my head, mood otherwise good. Some slight acne - possibly coincidental, I'm very prone anyway. Been sleeping really well, noticed I've been needing more sleep each night 9-10 hours rather than 7-8.

Measurements up a few more cm here and there except waist measurement which is the same, Look noticeably better in the mirror, muscle looks very full. Gained 1.4kg over the week for a 3.0kg total increase which seems crazy but i dont think i'm retaining water. Maybe tbol just causes a really strong carbloading effect.


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Im on week 4 myself mate, i'd bump it to 80mg-100mg IMO, started getting some mad strength gains last week and im running t3/clen alongside so i've kept and even gained some lean muscle even though calories have been low. Nolva at 20mg ED should be fine for PCT for 3 weeks, drop the milk thistle it doesnt do anything. Drink plenty of water aswell, my libido is exactly the same haha


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Week 3

Some of the negative sides returned for a couple of days as I started the second bottle, I wonder if this lot is stronger/weaker. BP Has been around 135/65 in the mornings and up to 150/80 in the evenings which is terrible for me. I can't really trust the machine though as the cuff wont fasten around my arm anymore (too small) which is pretty funny. I think i had a bit of water retention during the middle of the week as my waist measurement shot up 3-4 cm and i gained 2kg in a day, no idea how this happened but it gradually came back off over the next few days and my waist went back down whilst my weight stayed the same. I haven't had any other estro sides, no hint of gyno and no acne really (very slight facial acne but im so prone that im not counting it unless it appears on my body, which it hasn't). Libido is the same or maybe down slightly been feeling a bit low on energy but otherwise good.

Now for the good stuff, my measurements are up significantly and i've had a ton of comments from people saying they notice the difference and squeesing my arms etc, I've gained 3-4cm on shoulders and chest, 2.5cm on arms and 2cm on legs (i've found it hard to train legs very well due to the back pumps). Strength wise I got 82.5kg for 7 on bench 60kg x5 for overhead press (60kg was my 1rm before) and all my dumbell work feels a lot easier. I can still even pump out 10 good form deadhang chinups even though im closing in on 100kg rapidly. Gained 2.6kg this week around half of which i think was water which disappeared the following week.


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Up the dose mate as afghan says. Most people find 80-100mg better. Keep up the log and good luck.


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for the advice guys I'd consider increasing to 80mg now but that would mean only running for another 5 days max as i've definitely decided to save the last bottle and either run it with some test in the spring or tbol only again. I've actually read quite a bit on people using 4 week cycles with 2 week pcts and splitting their cycles that way as everyone seems to agree that the gains from tbol really slow down after 4-6 weeks unless you up the dose. So if i finished up at the end of this week i'd have enough to run 80mg again in the new year for another 4 weeks which seems attractive (i have enough pct meds to cover 2 cycles easily so this would essentially be a freebie).

Decisions decisions. Anyway gonna head off because i'm getting a goddamn forearm pump from typing. Not even kidding


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

avl said:


> Thanks for the advice guys I'd consider increasing to 80mg now but that would mean only running for another 5 days max as i've definitely decided to save the last bottle and either run it with some test in the spring or tbol only again. I've actually read quite a bit on people using 4 week cycles with 2 week pcts and splitting their cycles that way as everyone seems to agree that the gains from tbol really slow down after 4-6 weeks unless you up the dose. So if i finished up at the end of this week i'd have enough to run 80mg again in the new year for another 4 weeks which seems attractive (i have enough pct meds to cover 2 cycles easily so this would essentially be a freebie).
> 
> Decisions decisions. Anyway gonna head off because i'm getting a goddamn forearm pump from typing. Not even kidding


What tbol is it buddy? Sounds good! Keep up the good work. I am thinking off doing a tbol cycle next year so will be keeping a close eye on this


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

avl said:


> Thanks for the advice guys I'd consider increasing to 80mg now but that would mean only running for another 5 days max as i've definitely decided to save the last bottle and either run it with some test in the spring or tbol only again. I've actually read quite a bit on people using 4 week cycles with 2 week pcts and splitting their cycles that way as everyone seems to agree that the gains from tbol really slow down after 4-6 weeks unless you up the dose. So if i finished up at the end of this week i'd have enough to run 80mg again in the new year for another 4 weeks which seems attractive (i have enough pct meds to cover 2 cycles easily so this would essentially be a freebie).
> 
> Decisions decisions. Anyway gonna head off because i'm getting a goddamn forearm pump from typing. Not even kidding


Buy some more then


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

For Hotdog147 the tbol is Lixus Labs and ba baracuss - if only i could! Bloody hate christmas. Anyway, time for an update.

Week 4

No real weight gain this week but i've definitely leaned out again after last weeks bloat so i assume i've lost water weight and gained muscle, weighed in at 97.5kg this morning up from 91.5kg at the start so a 6kg increase. Strength gains have been awesome this week and i've basically been setting pbs all over the place, all of which have felt like i had more in the tank.

Lifts

Bench: 87.5kg x1 + 75kg 3x5 -> 100kg x1 (easy) + 85kg 3x5

Deadlift: 170kg x1 + 145 1x5 -> 190kg x1 (getting close to 200kg and so damn close to 2x bw!) + 155kg 1x5

OHP: 60kg x1 + 52.5 3x5 -> 67.5kg x1 + 57.5 3x5

Squat: 115 x1 + 100 3x5 -> 135kg x1 + 115kg 1x5 (been unable to train squats 3x5 due to back pumps)

Measurements

Shoulders: 133 -> 137cm

Chest: 104 -> 107cm

Forearm 34 -> 35.5cm

Bicep 40 -> 42.5cm

Thigh 66 -> 69cm

Waist (at navel) 93 -> 94cm

The weight, measurement and lift increases (all my 1RMs turning into 5RMs) is pretty consistent with around 4 months progress natty so assuming full recovery to where i am now takes less than a month during pct i'm very happy with the speed boost this cycle has given me, especially considering it's an oral only and i went into it not expecting much at all.


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Week 5

So, finished my first week of pct, i'm running a truncated version of the standard protocol due to it only being a 4 week cycle of a non aromatising compound (short duration of test supression and limited estrogen increase related supression). I picked nolva because although i know it can mess around with your libido more the side-effects of clomid, in particular depression etc didn't sound fun.

Anyway, i ran day 1: 40mg day 2-7: 20mg and now for days 8-14: 10mg. The boys are back to regular size though and morning wood has returned which is nice. Mood and Libido wise otherwise is ok, maybe felt a little down and lethargic but nothing beyond the realms of 'just deal with it'.

Weight and body wise I lost 2kg in the first 3 days coming off with my blood pressure simultaneously returning to normal values and back pumps disappearing completely so i think this was just a little excess water/ stored glycogen etc. Measurements are pretty much the same except waist measurement went down a couple of cm and weight is holding stable at 95.5-96kg up from 91.5kg pre-cycle.

In terms of strength I feel just as strong, got 100kg again for bench yesterday and 190kg for deadlifts on sunday plus some good squat work. So i haven't lost any strength, I do notice though that i don't feel as powerful during my workouts and also that niggling pains have returned after disappearing for 4 weeks.

Overall pretty pleased, im gonna maintain my weight for another 2 weeks just to make sure i hold onto everything whilst my test and other hormones reset and then start the long and slightly unfashionable winter cut  . Will get bloods taken sometime in the new year, i'd get them done before but i didnt realise quite how long the half-life of nolva is (14 days for the active metabolite! jeez) so that's going to throw any readings off quite a bit for a couple of months. Luckily i seem to be in the 70% of people that nolva doesn't kill the libido of.


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## jeffj (Jun 18, 2011)

Well done mate good cycle. I love tbol an will using it again soon. Good luck with the rest of pct.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Aaaaaaggghhhh.

I cant wait for monday now after reading this. 80mg ed x 8 weeks


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Fvck it im gonna start them today :devil2:


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## Jeckyll (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm no expert so I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but, if you're trying to bulk and are increasing your calories by 500-1000 above maintenance then it might be better to keep your calories 500-1000 above also while on pct, I believe you are more likely to keep the gains that way (otherwise insufficient food for your new muscle and more likely to lose the newly gained muscle).


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## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

^^^^^ agreed, keep calories up during pct


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Jeckyll said:


> I'm no expert so I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but, if you're trying to bulk and are increasing your calories by 500-1000 above maintenance then it might be better to keep your calories 500-1000 above aslo on pct, I believe you are more likely to keep the gains that way (otherwise insufficient food for your new muscle and more likely to lose the newly gained muscle).


I thought that but after making this thread...http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/155962-protein-into-pct.html

..ive realised maybe not and the answers make alot of sense to me


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## Jeckyll (Sep 19, 2011)

ash1981 said:


> I thought that but after making this thread...http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/155962-protein-into-pct.html
> 
> ..ive realised maybe not and the answers make alot of sense to me


Agreed, some of it seems to make sense but I suppose I would be more cautious and be happy to gain a tiny bit of fat due to the extra protein/calories and then work on it post pct, rather than lose some of the gains during cycle. Personal choice I guess.

Anyway, good log, keep us updated on your pct


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

avl said:


> Will get bloods taken sometime in the new year, i'd get them done before but i didnt realise quite how long the half-life of nolva is (14 days for the active metabolite! jeez) so that's going to throw any readings off quite a bit for a couple of months. Luckily i seem to be in the 70% of people that nolva doesn't kill the libido of.


What's all this about mate? How do you think nolva is going to affect blood tests, and where have you got this idea that it kills libido? I've never heard of the latter, or the former, although it could potentially be possible.


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## avl (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks for all the help guys, I think i probably did sub-conciously keep my cals similar to on cycle, i've definitely tried to be careful that my protein intake is the same and that i never go below maintenance (about 3k).

Hmm I could be mixed up with my info but i'm pretty sure i read that when Nolva was trialled as a treatment for male breast cancer the clinical studies found that in 30% of guys it killed their libido whilst they were taking it which was why it wasn't ever officially used for that due to too many problems with non-compliance. I'll see if i can dig out the paper. I'd guess that with it being a serm there's probably a sub-population of people with different variants of the estrogen receptors and in one group nolva acts as an agonist and another an antagonist at once particular e receptor type.

As for how it affects bloods I just mean that because nolva is responsible for the artificially high levels of LH which we use to get test production up again If you take nolva at 20mg ed for a month and then take a blood test a month after stopping it chances are your LH will still be artificially high because a significant amount of nolvas active metabolite will still be in your system (around 20% of maximal levels). Nolvas long half-life is why people preload it and taper down, so that the start of pct blood levels are high enough to have a theraputic effect whilst the end of pct blood levels aren't so built up that it's going to hang around for months.

Just as a quick update feeling great btw, still keeping steady weight at 95.5kg with no fat gain and kept all strength gains. Energy mood etc all really good, feel pretty much as i did pre cycle. I'll try to upload some pics but my gf dropped the camera battery in the sink so might be a while (...!). Other than that i'll probably bump this thread with the results of my second set of bloods around new years and in the meantime will be thinking about what and when my next cycle will be!


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Look forward to it!


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