# Over 40 and Bicep problem question.



## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi. I have been training most of my life and have hit a peak (I know you decline at 40ish), but I am making progress in all areas apart from biceps.

They seem to be stuck at 17/18" (left/right) and wont grow anymore. My tri's are fine an growing well.

Im 6.1, 16st with 48" chest. Eat high protein / high carb meals. I'm natural & take no steroids/shakes/chems.

My routine for biceps is as follows on *Mon* & *Fri*. I train chest on same days.

I try to change it about every so often, (doing 21's, Machine curls, narrow pull ups), but mainly:

*
*

*
Seated concentration curls*

6 sets of 12 reps on both arms (rising in weight to 35kg each arm)

*Seated Hammer curls*

3 sets of 12 reps on both arms (rising in weight to 30kg each arm)

*Close grip seated preacher barbell *

3 sets of 12 reps (rising in weight to 40kg)

*Seated Bicep Pull down*

3 sets of 12 reps (rising in weight to 100kg)

Anything obvious Im doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Overtraining them in my opinion.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> Overtraining them in my opinion.


Interesting. I'd thought about that, but I tried cutting down to training them once a week, and deffo saw a reduction in results.

Also I no longer feel any burn like I used to in my youth. Keeping my metabolism up doing lots af swimming (which really has boosted my chest recently).

I guess its just age


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Age my a**e.

I'm 51 and still getting results.

Don't forget most of the arm size comes from the tr's not the bi's.


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## Nuts (Aug 19, 2013)

Howey1 said:


> Hi. I have been training most of my life and have hit a peak (I know you decline at 40ish), but I am making progress in all areas apart from biceps.
> 
> They seem to be stuck at 17/18" (left/right) and wont grow anymore. My tri's are fine an growing well.
> 
> ...


IMO too much isolation. Add in wide grip barbell curls twice a week. I used to train mine once a week and couldn't budge them twice a week much better but I stick to barbell curls and maybe DB curls but not a lot else.

edit I am 45 by the way


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Nuts60 said:


> IMO too much isolation. Add in wide grip barbell curls twice a week. I used to train mine once a week and couldn't budge them twice a week much better but I stick to barbell curls and maybe DB curls but not a lot else.
> 
> edit I am 45 by the way


I do wide grip barbell alternative 21's sometimes to change things around. A friend of mine said going beyond 18" arms, training 'natural' is pushing it. Is that true?

There are a few guys bigger at the gym but they are all roid heads. (and I can out-bench all of them lol)


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Depends on the persons genetics as well.


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## Nuts (Aug 19, 2013)

Howey1 said:


> I do wide grip barbell alternative 21's sometimes to change things around. A friend of mine said going beyond 18" arms, training 'natural' is pushing it. Is that true?
> 
> There are a few guys bigger at the gym but they are all roid heads. (and I can out-bench all of them lol)


As @andyhuggins said you are over training all at once, take your current bicep routine and split it into 2 sessions in the same week so for example do half on Tuesday and the other half on Friday, one of the best ways to grow biceps is not to train them! Going beyond 18" arms is really down to genetics.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

> As @andyhuggins said you are over training all at once' date= take your current bicep routine and split it into 2 sessions in the same week so for example do half on Tuesday and the other half on Friday, *one of the best ways to grow biceps is not to train them!* Going beyond 18" arms is really down to genetics.


Well put @Nuts60


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Howey1 said:


> They seem to be stuck at 17/18" (left/right) and wont grow anymore.


Wish mine were stuck at that size.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Howey1 said:


> A friend of mine said going beyond 18" arms, training 'natural' is pushing it. Is that true?


He's probably right - nattys with 18+ arms are few & far between. Mine never got above 16 until I went over to the Dark Side.

I got something of a boost though when I switched from complicated splits to 3x full body a week. A little often seemed more productive than grinding them to a paste once a week.


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

We are roughly the same age but the same size !

I personally don't think that's overtraining

I think you need to look at Ben Pakulski's youtube videos - you are not training through what he calls the strength curve . I would include some incline dumbbell curls for better ( not less ) isolation . I would strongly recommend a quick search on youtube .

I know people say arms are a small muscle etc etc but personally mine need a hammering to grow


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks for suggestions chaps.

Last night I added incline db curls. 3 x 12. I also rested less between sets. Felt more buzz going on. Straight home and 3 breasts of lean chicken, tin of tuna, tub of low fat cottage cheese, Brocholli, milk and fruit. Will see if I progress in coming weeks.

Incidently, I have noticed since dong 60 lengths swimming each week (mainly intense breast stroke), my chest is growing again. Hope to get to 49/50" soon.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Howey1 said:


> Thanks for suggestions chaps.
> 
> Last night I added incline db curls. 3 x 12. I also rested less between sets. Felt more buzz going on. Straight home and 3 breasts of lean chicken, tin of tuna, tub of low fat cottage cheese, Brocholli, milk and fruit. Will see if I progress in coming weeks.
> 
> Incidently, I have noticed since dong 60 lengths swimming each week (mainly intense breast stroke), my chest is growing again. Hope to get to 49/50" soon.


If anything breast stroke would work rear delts and back not chest. Not that I think swimming will build muscle to any real degree anyway


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

36-26 said:


> If anything breast stroke would work rear delts and back not chest. Not that I think swimming will build muscle to any real degree anyway


I used to swim for my county when I was younger. It was my chest development that got me into body building. I always assumed it was breast stroke. Wasn't doing any other sport at the time.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Howey1 said:


> I used to swim for my county when I was younger. It was my chest development that got me into body building. I always assumed it was breast stroke. Wasn't doing any other sport at the time.


Regular front crawl if that's what it's called would work chest more IMO and also the butterfly


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

36-26 said:


> Regular front crawl if that's what it's called would work chest more IMO and also the butterfly


You could be right, but I always thought it was called 'Breast' stroke because it used the breast (chest) lol. If you think about the action, its a reversed 'Pec-dec' action. One things for sure, after 60 odd lengths, my chest is pumped when I get out. Most of those lengths are fast breast stroke. I used to hate Butterfly btw. could do it, but it felt so un-natural.

Back on topic, the incline laying DB curls are looking promising. Thanks for suggestion.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Howey1 said:


> You could be right, but I always thought it was called 'Breast' stroke because it used the breast (chest) lol. If you think about the action, its a reversed 'Pec-dec' action. One things for sure, after 60 odd lengths, my chest is pumped when I get out. Most of those lengths are fast breast stroke. I used to hate Butterfly btw. could do it, but it felt so un-natural.
> 
> Back on topic, the incline laying DB curls are looking promising. Thanks for suggestion.


A reverse pec deck works the rear delts.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Ok. have added 2 extra routines to my biceps days (Mon & Fri)

*Seated concentration curls*

6 x 12 reps on both arms (rising in weight to 35kg each arm)

*Seated Hammer curls*

3 x 12 reps on both arms (rising in weight to 30kg each arm)

*Close grip seated preacher barbell*

3 x 12 reps (rising in weight to 40kg)

*Seated Bicep Pull down*

3 x 12 reps (rising in weight to 100kg)

*45% Incline dumbell curls*

3 x 12 reps (up to 25kg)

*Seated Roman chair bicep curls*

3 x 12 reps (up to 50kg)

Will see if I get an improvement.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Is that all in 1 session mate?


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> Is that all in 1 session mate?


Pretty much. I train them Monday and Friday, although I alternate the romanchair and incline with Hammer curls and seated pull down.

I have tried doing less and seem to deteriorate.

My fellow gym friend has huge biceps and trains them 3 times a week and does more than me.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Are you in a calorie surplus?

It doesn't matter how much protein you eat. If it's all used up before it gets chance to build muscle, it's not going to happen.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

That is way to much in my opinion.

Don't forget that most of the arms size comes from the tri's.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> That is way to much in my opinion.
> 
> Don't forget that most of the arms size comes from the tri's.


Yes, my tri's make up most of my arm. They seem to take away from the bicep size.

I honestly don't feel like i've given the biceps a decent workout unless I complete above sets tbh.


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## fastcar_uk (Jan 30, 2013)

Howey1 said:


> Hi. I have been training most of my life and have hit a peak (I know you decline at 40ish), but I am making progress in all areas apart from biceps.
> 
> They seem to be stuck at 17/18" (left/right) and wont grow anymore. My tri's are fine an growing well.
> 
> ...


For me your not training them enough to stimulate hypertrophy.

Do 12 reps for your warm up set the increase the weight so you can manage 8 reps repeat for six reps then again for as many as you can do.

If you can manage 12 reps on your last set you ain't trying!

Was always told low reps heavy weight to build muscle, worked for Ronnie!


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

fastcar_uk said:


> For me your not training them enough to stimulate hypertrophy.
> 
> Do 12 reps for your warm up set the increase the weight so you can manage 8 reps repeat for six reps then again for as many as you can do.
> 
> ...


Ronnie Coleman said at least twelve reps to build muscle, are you talking about a different Ronnie? The only time I seen him do low reps was when he did some powerlifting training on squats and deads.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Ronnie Coleman and natty training really !!!!!!!!


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## fastcar_uk (Jan 30, 2013)

36-26 said:


> Ronnie Coleman said at least twelve reps to build muscle, are you talking about a different Ronnie? The only time I seen him do low reps was when he did some powerlifting training on squats and deads.


errr watch his videos(yes ronnie coleman)...he always goes heavier each set dropping the reps with the increase in weight.

at the end of the day its not about how many reps, its about causing hypertrophy in the muscle to stimulate growth.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

I did stop taking Protein shakes last year, because they really gave me bad gut ache. (Reflex brand). I started eating tons of chicken breast, tuna, cottage cheese etc etc. I do often wonder about the timing, as I used to drink the shakes straight after training. I can't eat the high protein cooked meals for at least a hour - 2 hours after training. Don't know if thats a factor?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Howey1 said:


> Hi. I have been training most of my life and have hit a peak (I know you decline at 40ish), but I am making progress in all areas apart from biceps.
> 
> They seem to be stuck at 17/18" (left/right) and wont grow anymore. My tri's are fine an growing well.
> 
> ...


Lets see these guns then.

PICS?


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

I will take some at some point, but to me they look crap. 

He's some to give rough idea. (you can see im over 43 lol)

In crappy Worthing btw.


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## Nuts (Aug 19, 2013)

Howey1 said:


> I will take some at some point, but to me they look crap.


Where on the south coast are you?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Howey1 said:


> I will take some at some point, but to me they look crap.


18 inch natty guns look crap really!!!!!!

Get the pics up.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Nuts60 said:


> Where on the south coast are you?


  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

Interesting.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

See last post. Edited it.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Worthing thats not far.

18" I take it that is pumped?


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## LeVzi (Nov 18, 2013)

My biceps are crap, never wanna grow, so i'm trying a few different things. Doing an actual bicep workout is helping me, I do one for my tri's too and they are responding really well.

I just think my genetics are ****e for my biceps, which is ok, cos i've got huge calfs.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> 18" I take it that is pumped?


Yeah.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Howey1 said:


> Yeah.


Thought so mate.

Fair play to you mate.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

You can see in pics, because im tall, they look puny lol


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

So how often do you train the other body parts?


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> So how often do you train the other body parts?


Everything twice a week. Tri's, sometimes once a week.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

> ]Yes' date=' my tri's make up most of my arm. They seem to take away from the bicep size.[/b']
> 
> I honestly don't feel like i've given the biceps a decent workout unless I complete above sets tbh.


As you have just said tri's once a week and they are good.

So why not apply that to the rest of your training?


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> As you have just said tri's once a week and they are good.
> 
> So why not apply that to the rest of your training?


I tried and my strength and size deteriated. Most guys at my gym train everything twice a week, so I thought that was normal.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Well as a natty i found if I hit them once per week with intensity they grew.

It's the rest and diet that makes them grow as well.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

fastcar_uk said:


> errr watch his videos(yes ronnie coleman)...he always goes heavier each set dropping the reps with the increase in weight.
> 
> at the end of the day its not about how many reps, its about causing hypertrophy in the muscle to stimulate growth.


First two vids I looked up Ronnie training biceps and he doesn't go below 12 reps. What video are you talking about? He has also said you need at least 12 reps for hypertrophy in interviews


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

36-26 said:


> First two vids I looked up Ronnie training biceps and he doesn't go below 12 reps. What video are you talking about? He has also said you need at least 12 reps for hypertrophy in interviews


I do agree, for continuous strength and size, for most muscle groups, 12 + reps heavy works. ..just not on biceps it would seem


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Howey1 said:


> I do agree, for continuous strength and size, for most muscle groups, 12 + reps heavy works. ..just not on biceps it would seem


I don't necessarily agree with Ronnie, I was just saying that's what he said. IMO you need to find the rep range that works for you, it's different for everyone


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## The Stig (Nov 14, 2013)

I can assure you that breaststroke, freestyle, backstroke has nothing to do with it. I would agree with all the above:

1 - you have reached a personal plateau (nothing wrong with that the body needs proportion)

2 - you are probably overtraining your biceps, trying to train a specific body part (even more) does not result in specific gains

3 - Size comes with demand, the muscle group grows in proportion to demand, to lift more, requires bigger muscles. Rest required.

4 - Stick to the basics - forget isolation for size.

(43 years old)


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

My arms look crap, it doesn't help that my knuckles drag the floor even though I am 6' 2.


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

The Stig said:


> I can assure you that breaststroke, freestyle, backstroke has nothing to do with it. I would agree with all the above:
> 
> 1 - you have reached a personal plateau (nothing wrong with that the body needs proportion)
> 
> ...


1. I totally agree.

2. Point taken. Im adding more compound exercises, (deadlift with a gym partner), and will lessen iso exercises.

3. Last night I shortened number of sets but increased reps and weight (Arnold did 20 reps on curls), got a new type of burn which felt good.

4. I can only partially agree on this notion. My Tri's for instance have grown due to very heavy iso work (up to 60kg skull crushers). Only weighted dips ever made much difference, but again point taken.

Thanks


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## Howey1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Well, update. Changed routine around a bit. Added dead lift which is helping. (although biceps seem to point inwards?)

They to seem to be aching in a new way though, which is promising lol. Thanks again for valuable advise chaps!


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