# Help needed with next phase of cardio



## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

Hi all,

As some of you already know my goal is to burn the maximum flab off my 44" waist for the minimum loss of muscle mass. A few months back I could barely do 10 minutes on the rower, a friend advised me to get that up to an hour by adding a few minutes every workout, with a 1 minute rest every 3-5 minutes. I have done this, but I've lost contact with him, so I I don't know how to progress from here. I'm clueless about this heart rate thing, but I find myself starting strong, and slowing very gradually throughout the hour.

Now, from what I hear this HIIT thing is pretty damn good at burning flab and actually helps when bulking too.

Ok - what do I need to do, cardio-wise, to get from here to that 32" waist I dream about?

1) What device can display my heart rate and where in the UK do I buy it - if I need it?

2) What do I need to do to graduate from here to HIIT? My guess would be to start phasing out the rest periods at the beginning of my workout until I'm not resting at all, but I don't know - you guys are the experts!!

3) I hear drinking coffee before cardio is good - is this true, and is there anything else (that's safe!) I can do to make the cardio burn more fat?

Thanks in advance for the solutions!

KS


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Just fix your diet dude.

Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels.

Diet is for your bodyfat.

The exception is if you're at (say) 8-10% bodyfat and want to get lower, in which case you need all the help you can get.


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## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

big said:


> Just fix your diet dude.
> 
> Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels.
> 
> ...


Man, my diet isn't bad, I made a mistake putting this in the diet section.

Could you or the mods please move this out to the bodybuilding section?

That'd be appreciated,

KS


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## leeston (May 30, 2006)

I will leave the cardio side to the other guys has I do very minimal.

However, I am aware that you can monitor your heart rate via a watch. The prices range from about £20 - 150. They can be basic as a simple watch with the sensor on the back (against your wrist) or wirelessly via a belt on your waist. You can get them at Boots, Argos and similar places.


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## Stone (Jul 25, 2005)

How have you calculated your calorie intake for cutting?

What cardio are you doing at the moment? Does time allow you to do 2 cardio sessions a day? For example half hour to fourty five mins brisk walk/jog on empty stomach after waking then half an hour to fourty five mins in early evening same pace as morning.

Also, cardio 'and' an organised diet will shed that fat a hell of alot quicker than just have a super strict diet.

44" waist is pretty big and I assume your obviously a very big guy so I wouldnt recommend HIIT for now.


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

Good post, Stone!

*Understanding Your Training Heart Rate*

by: Vicki R. Pierson, ACE Certified Personal Trainer

Your training heart rate zone is a critical element in exercise. Taking your pulse and figuring your heart rate during a workout is one of the primary indicators in ascertaining the intensity level at which you and your heart is working. There are many ways to measure exercise intensity. The Karvonen Formula is one of most effective methods used to determine your heart rate. The Ratings of Perceived Exertion and Talk Test methods are subjective measurements that can be used in addition to taking a pulse.

*The Karvonen Formula*

This is a heart rate reserve formula and it's one of the most effective methods used to calculate training heart rate. The formula factors in your resting heart rate, therefore, you'll need to determine your resting heart rate by doing the following:

Prior to getting out of bed in the morning, take your pulse on your wrist (radial pulse) or on the side of your neck (carotid pulse).

Count the number of beats, starting with zero, for one minute. If you don't have a stop watch or a second hand in your bedroom, you can measure the time by watching for the number to change on a digital alarm clock. Find your pulse and start counting when the minute number changes the first time, stop counting when it changes again.

To help assure accuracy, take your resting heart rate three mornings in a row and average the 3 heart rates together.

Another element in finding your training heart rate zone is determining the intensity level at which you should exercise. As a general rule, you should exercise at an intensity between 50% - 85% of your heart rate reserve. Your individual level of fitness will ultimately determine where you fall within this range. Use the following table as a guide for determining your intensity level:

*Beginner or low fitness level . . .50% - 60%*

*
Average fitness level . . . . . . . . 60% - 70%*

*
High fitness level . . . . . . . . . . . 75% - 85%*

Now that we've determined and gathered the information needed, we can pull the information together in the Karvonen Formula:

*220 - Age = Maximum Heart Rate*

*
Max Heart Rate - Rest. Heart Rate x Intensity + Rest. Heart Rate = Training Heart Rate*

For example, Sally is 33 yrs old, has a resting heart rate of 75 and she's just beginning her exercise program (her intensity level will be 50% - 60%.) Sally's training heart rate zone will be 131-142 beats per minute:

*Sally's Minimum Training Heart Rate:*

220 - 33 (Age) = 187

187 - 75 (Rest. HR) = 112

112 x .50 (Min. Intensity) + 75 (Rest. HR) = 131 Beats/Minute

*Sally's Maximum Training Heart Rate*:

220 - 33 (Age) = 187

187 - 75 (Rest. HR) = 112

112 x .60 (Max. Intensity) + 75 (Rest. HR) = 142 Beats/Minute

Periodically, take your pulse during your exercise session to gauge your intensity level.

*Typically, the easiest location for taking a pulse is on the side of your neck, the carotid pulse. *Be sure not to press too hard on the carotid artery or you'll get an inaccurate reading.

Count the number of beats, always beginning with zero, for 6 seconds (then multiply by 10), or for 10 seconds (then multiply by 6) to get the number of times your heart is beating per minute.

If your pulse is within your training heart rate zone, you're right on track! If not, adjust your exercise workload until you get into your zone.


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## Stone (Jul 25, 2005)

are those silver bits on the cardio machines accurate for reading bpm?


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm not sure as I've never used them. I've just always taken my carotid pulse myself.

KS: Did you see this thread in this forum?

Cardio heart rate


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## wiseguy83 (Mar 26, 2006)

1) What device can display my heart rate and where in the UK do I buy it - if I need it?dont worry to much about heart rate just keep the diet clean and drop yer carbs as the day goes on try not to take any carbs in after 7.30pm dont get to technical with all that sh1t just train hard.

3) I hear drinking coffee before cardio is good - is this true, and is there anything else (that's safe!) I can do to make the cardio burn more fat?yes it worked for me i drank 3 cups a day of black coffee have one half hour befor cardio with a couple of fat-stripers do cardio early mornin on empty belly for 30-45mins and repeat befor bed.forget heart rate just keep bangin the cardio in with the weight training and diet hard you will soon see yourself comming down each week.remember they dint have all these fancy machines years ago and them bodybuilders back then had nice small taperd waists keep it simple.good look mate.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

big said:


> Just fix your diet dude.
> 
> Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels.
> 
> ...


Spot on here Big....................

Diet for fat loss, works by far the best.


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## Stone (Jul 25, 2005)

Dont know about you guys but I would rather keep my calories up and do cardio rather than do minimal cardio and keeping cals very low. I mean cardio doesnt only use fat for energy whilst you are doing but it also rasies your metabolic rate for hours after so the combination of both is crucial.

Especially having a 44 inch waist, no doubt hell be able to sweat some of that water weight off through cycling, walking etc

You dont have to do such intense cardio, thats where peoples mistake is. Its the pace which is important as well, the difference between the 'fat burning' stage and cardiovascular stage. The best thing I would recommend is to brisk/walk or jog changing speed or incline every 3-5 mins, do this for 45mins 3 x a week, along with am cardio and an organised diet, which Keyser has already mentioned he has got and please, just trust me, the weight will come off in the matter of a few months!

Its up to you though, plenty of sound advice has come from the other guys, but speaking as ex chubby lad, this is what worked.


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

I agree with you Stone, just as you said is what I did. I prefer the higher calories, I don't feel like I'm starving myself even if there foods 6X a day. Portion control was key for me to maintain and build better eating habits all around and still lose weight. The cardio helped we overcome any bumps in the road.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

If diet got you into the mess you are in (overweight), why not use diet to get you out of the very mess you got your self into with diet?

It makes no sense to me to try to run off what food put on.

Walking for a half hour might burn 200 calories.

One slice of pizza is more than that.

1 soda would be that high.

Funny thing about cardio is it does not burn the fat people think it does.

Resistance training on the other hand will burn more fat for longer than cardio, up to 3 days fat burning with resistance training.

Not only that but resistance training raises HGH and testosterone, cardio does not unless the intensity is very high.

Look at long distance runners compared to sprinters.

I dont fall for that fat burning zone actually.

I lost 25 lbs and 6.5" on my waist with diet alone and zero cardio. I did do resistance training though.

Shoot for 1-2 lbs a week and this is diet controlled.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

hackskii said:


> If diet got you into the mess you are in (overweight), why not use diet to get you out of the very mess you got your self into with diet?
> 
> It makes no sense to me to try to run off what food put on.
> 
> ...


Top post. Not only that but Im sure I have heard male marathon runners have a lot less testosterone than a sprinter would.

also heard that Vince Gironda wasnt down with doing any kind of running for cardio, but Cookie will probably clarify this.


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## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

Stone said:


> Dont know about you guys but I would rather keep my calories up and do cardio rather than do minimal cardio and keeping cals very low. I mean cardio doesnt only use fat for energy whilst you are doing but it also rasies your metabolic rate for hours after so the combination of both is crucial.
> 
> Especially having a 44 inch waist, no doubt hell be able to sweat some of that water weight off through cycling, walking etc
> 
> You dont have to do such intense cardio, thats where peoples mistake is. Its the pace which is important as well, the difference between the 'fat burning' stage and cardiovascular stage. The best thing I would recommend is to brisk/walk or jog changing speed or incline every 3-5 mins, do this for 45mins 3 x a week, along with am cardio and an organised diet, which Keyser has already mentioned he has got


It's not as well-organised as I need, it seems - I should be calorie counting, but at the mo I don't have a clue as to how many cals I take in, how many I need, how many constitutes a deficit of 2Ibs a week, what proportion of cals are coming from protein/fats/carbs, all I'm doing is eating oats in the morning, and turkey breast/veg/salad every 2.5 hours after...and for all I know I could be taking in FAR too much oats/turkey!!!

I've got to button this whole business down and start counting, I fear I've been oversimplifying it this whole time and inadvertantly overeating, just a small tweak but it makes the difference between an excess of 100 cals and a deficit of 500...



> and please, just trust me, the weight will come off in the matter of a few months!


Don't doubt it for a second mate, I did a quick cut in December and the waistline receded so fast about 3 people noticed by the end of week 2, but haven't repeated it.

This is going to stop - the fat is coming off, one way or the other.

KS


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## Stone (Jul 25, 2005)

Well stick to the 1.5g per lb of lean body weight, carbs imo personal opinion 0.5g per lb total body weight, but make sure you properly schedule the timing you consume carbs, especially if your working all day then training in the evening.

Fat I guess would be generally 50g, I bet its more though but its what I stick to.

So maybe stick to a protocol of 10cals per lb of body weight, say if you weigh 200lbs, then consume 2000 cals, again, Im not sure what your lifestyle is like but Im sure youll have to adjust it anyway.

There are 4 cals in a gram of protein, 4 cals in a gram of carb and 9 cals in a gram of fat. Use the above weight of food you get then add them up using this calorie measurement.

Theres approx 3500 calories in a lb of body fat, so if you manage to use 7000 cals more in a week comapred to what you eat, then you get 2lbs of fat loss, but its not as simple as this as you have to schedule the timing of what to eat and when.

So if you use 1000 more calories in a day compared to what you have eaten, 2lbs in a week would be good.


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

KS said:


> It's not as well-organised as I need, it seems - I should be calorie counting, but at the mo I don't have a clue as to how many cals I take in, *how many I need,* how many constitutes a deficit of 2Ibs a week, what proportion of cals are coming from protein/fats/carbs, all I'm doing is eating oats in the morning, and turkey breast/veg/salad every 2.5 hours after...and for all I know *I could be taking in FAR too much oats/turkey!!!*


Use Carlos' and Tatyana's calorie calculation posts to determine how many calories you need.

reprint here:

The Harris-Benedict formula (BMR based on total body weight)

The Harris Benedict equation is a calorie formula using the factors of height, weight, age, and sex to determine basal metabolic rate (BMR). This makes it more accurate than determining calorie needs based on total bodyweight alone. The only variable it does not take into consideration is lean body mass. Therefore, this equation will be very accurate in all but the extremely muscular (will underestimate caloric needs) and the extremely overfat (will overestimate caloric needs).

Men: BMR = 66 + (13.7 X wt in kg) + (5 X ht in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

Women: BMR = 655 + (9.6 X wt in kg) + (1.8 X ht in cm) - (4.7 X age in years)

Note: 1 inch = 2.54 cm.

1 kilogram = 2.2 lbs.

Example:

You are female

You are 30 yrs old

You are 5' 6 " tall (167.6 cm)

You weigh 120 lbs. (54.5 kilos)

Your BMR = 655 + 523 + 302 - 141 = 1339 calories/day

Now that you know your BMR, you can calculate TDEE by multiplying your BMR by your activity multiplier from the chart below:

Activity Multiplier

Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)

Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)

Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)

Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)

Extr. active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.)

Example:

Your BMR is 1339 calories per day

Your activity level is moderately active (work out 3-4 times per week)

Your activity factor is 1.55

Your TDEE = 1.55 X 1339 = 2075 calories/day

I just divide a plate up into 1/4s and eat 1/2 plate of veggies (slow carbs) and 1/4 plate protein and 1/4 plate (sugary carbs - pasta, rice, potatoes, beans, fruits, desserts) 6X a day. Each meal being 1/6 of your total allowed intake of calories for the day as calculated above.

It is key to eat *small* portions 6X a day to cut the flab.

Those on diabetic diets must watch their consumption of sugar and this plate division is an easy way to count the calories and watch the carb consumption. Diabetics are required to eat a certain amount of fast carbs as well as slow carbs which I find interesting.

Eat on a smaller plate. The psychology of that works wonders!

You also have to have an eye towards the kind of carbs you eat and when you eat them. Fast carb spike the blood sugar which depending on when you eat them and your protein needs can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your body's need to replenish your fuel.

I try to stay away from all fast carbs after 2:00pm based on my circadian rhythm.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Mine is 2004

But I was losing about a lb and a half a week on around 1800 cals.

Hmmmmm

I think my maintenance is higher than that TBH.


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## andye (Jan 30, 2006)

ive lost 7.5 inches from my waist and and lost about 30 lbs since xmas.

i have done cardio at some points but in all honesty i didnt loose anymore weight in the cardio weeks than in the weeks i just did resistance training.

i did however up my training from 3 days a week to 5-6

i even gained some good muscle mass as my bf went from 25+% down to 12-13 and i kept my chest and arms size even though i lost a lot of size off my waist.

the problem i have with cardio is that i have a slim skeleton and find it a little hard to maintain muscle. im sort of ectomorphic but i store alot of fat. this gives me one of the worst bodytypes possible.

anyway, with a little hard work in the gym, and good diet the weight will come off good and proper.

oh and another thing..... i swear by cheat days, have one a week and no more. it worked wonders for me


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ok, that does it, I am dieting again


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## andye (Jan 30, 2006)

hackskii said:


> Ok, that does it, I am dieting again


ROFL... :lol:

you tought me all the tips and tricks my friend.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

andye said:


> ROFL... :lol:
> 
> you tought me all the tips and tricks my friend.


Thanks....

Now I have to put it into practice


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

I saw this at msn diet and fitness

Amount of calories taken in is just as critical as the quality of calories when cutting.

*How to Combate Portion Distortion*

1. Know what equals a serving size. Learn standard serving sizes, and what they look like. For example:

1/2 cup of rice looks like a cupcake wrapper

1 cup of pasta, cereal, is 2 servings, and looks like a medium-sized fist

3 ounces of fish, chicken, or meat looks like a deck of cards, or a computer mouse

1 medium-sized fruit looks like a tennis ball

1/2 cup of cooked vegetables looks like a scoop of ice cream

1 ounce of cheese looks like a pair of dice

2 tablespoons reduced fat salad dressing looks like a 1 ping pong ball (if regular; do 1 tablespoon or 1/2 ping pong ball)

1 teaspoon oil or butter looks like the tip of a thumb

2. Servings can be larger, depending on your calorie needs. For example, someone on a 2,000 calorie diet may follow a budget of 600 calories/meal, which would translate to:

6 ounces of fish (2 decks of cards)

1 1/2 cups of pasta (1 medium fist and 1 cupcake wrapper)

1 cup of cooked vegetables (2 ice cream scoops)

3. Watch out for value meals at fast food restaurants. We are often encouraged to buy larger-sized portions because they provide a better value for our money. But while these oversized portions may be good for our wallets, they are not necessarily good for our waistlines or our health.

4. At restaurants, take half home. Most restaurants provide take-away containers if you want to turn tonight's dinner into tomorrow's lunch. You can even ask for this before you take your first bite.

*
The Bottom Line:* Remember, when it comes to our weight, how much we eat is just as important as what we eat. Learn the proper portions for your calorie needs, so that you can judge for yourself if you're consuming too much.

Lisa Drayer, M.A., R.D. is the Director of Nutrition Services for Diet w a t ch.com. Lisa has provided nutrition counseling to clients, written material for books and health Websites, and appeared in several national magazines and on television as an expert in the nutrition field.


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