# Intermittent fasting



## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Did anyone watch the documentary the other night about the health benefits of intermittent fasting?

Very simply put, research has found that not only do people lose bodyfat on it but long term it reduces the risk of cancer (due to decreased production of igf-1), coronary issues and actually promotes neurone growth and preservation. The idea behind it is that the body's stress response to starvation is to generate new cells (including neurones) as opposed to just repairing old ones.

I'm sold. As of tomorrow I'll be doing a 2 day fast which I'll continue to do on a weekly basis.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I like IF for dieting, i definitely find it a lot easier to eat less food and also to eat healthier food, i just generally feel better on it, i use a 16hr daily fast - a lot of that is sleeping anyway.


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

How would a day be made up then if your going to be fasting?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i read about it on the bbc website. article based on program.

Person said they were loading up on any food they wanted? then fasting the next 2 days.

Seems like a crappy version on carb cycling? ye decreased IGF means cancers wouldnt grow as quickly (bro science =-[)? but while doing BB do we not want that?

As you can tell im new to this haha


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Big Kris said:


> How would a day be made up then if your going to be fasting?


With the 5,2 IF men consume about 600 kcals a day for 2 days and women about 400 kcals. So for the days I'm fasting I'll only have 400kcals and then my usual 1200 a day for the other 5 (I want to be in calorie defecit). I'll probably split my 400 kcals between breakfast and dinner to give me something to eat in the morning and evening.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> i read about it on the bbc website. article based on program.
> 
> Person said they were loading up on any food they wanted? then fasting the next 2 days.
> 
> ...


Well yeah igf-1 promotes growth. But there's a strong genetic link in my family to cancer so that's my priority.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Not long read the article. Stumbled upon IF after seeing the hodge twins talking about it. Interested in trying it to help with dieting.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Does anyone know if with the 5, 2 intermittent fasting you're supposed to consusme a fair amount of kcals on non fasting days? I'm yet to do more reading on this topic but up until now i was consuming 1200kcals a day in order to lose fat. If I'm doing the 2 day fast will it be detrimental to stay with 1200kcals on eating days or will it not matter?


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Katy said:


> Does anyone know if with the 5, 2 intermittent fasting you're supposed to consusme a fair amount of kcals on non fasting days? I'm yet to do more reading on this topic but up until now i was consuming 1200kcals a day in order to lose fat. If I'm doing the 2 day fast will it be detrimental to stay with 1200kcals on eating days or will it not matter?


I've not read what the 5:2 fast is, but if you're losing weight on 1200 kcals and then add in the additional calorie deficit from the 2 days fasting, then you obviously going to be in a massive calorie deficit per week. If you want to use the fasts in the E2E way, then you would eat maintenance on your fed days and use the fasts to make your weeks calorie deficit. Or, if the days fasting don't create as much of a deficit as the total of a week at 1200 kcals you could always just spread the remaining negative calories over your fed days. I doubt you would consume an excess number of calories on your fed days, but if you were trying to maintain weight whilst including 2x fasts per week, then your fed days would need to include the calories that you didn't eat on your fast days.


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## Leigh (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm going to have to read up on this and give it a try properly.

I already compact my eating timeslot but need to do more, I think, especially as I'm sat around not, post-surgery, no exercise and little movement.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

On another note, I watched the first half of the program, and I got the impression from the people who eat a reduced number of calories every day, that the act of eating fewer calories than your body's "programmed/preferred" would keep you at a smaller size than it "wants" to be, thus creating "this" environment in which is meant to be beneficial. So in that case, instead of eating enough to maintain your body's "preferred" state of mass and such, I guess you'd eat just under.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Greenspin said:


> I've not read what the 5:2 fast is, but if you're losing weight on 1200 kcals and then add in the additional calorie deficit from the 2 days fasting, then you obviously going to be in a massive calorie deficit per week. If you want to use the fasts in the E2E way, then you would eat maintenance on your fed days and use the fasts to make your weeks calorie deficit. Or, if the days fasting don't create as much of a deficit as the total of a week at 1200 kcals you could always just spread the remaining negative calories over your fed days. I doubt you would consume an excess number of calories on your fed days, but if you were trying to maintain weight whilst including 2x fasts per week, then your fed days would need to include the calories that you didn't eat on your fast days.


Well I don't want to maintain my weight, I wan to lose fat I just wondered if the increased weekly deficit caused by the fasting would need to be compensated for. I guess trial and error might have to be the plan.



Leigh L said:


> I'm going to have to read up on this and give it a try properly.
> 
> I already compact my eating timeslot but need to do more, I think, especially as I'm sat around not, post-surgery, no exercise and little movement.


Perhaps download the programme? It's really interesting. I also listened to a radio interview wth Michael Mosely who elaborated a little further along with research finding about neurological changes as a result of the fasting.

What's with the new avi btw? Surely isn't you!



Greenspin said:


> On another note, I watched the first half of the program, and I got the impression from the people who eat a reduced number of calories every day, that the act of eating fewer calories than your body's "programmed/preferred" would keep you at a smaller size than it "wants" to be, thus creating "this" environment in which is meant to be beneficial. So in that case, instead of eating enough to maintain your body's "preferred" state of mass and such, I guess you'd eat just under.


Yeah, that's without fasting. You don't need to be in deficit on feed days with the 5, 2 split. I see it as the feed days being the time when the body is replenished with everything it needs for things like muscle growth and then on fasting days it's stressed into repair.


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## mark22 (Jul 13, 2011)

Watched this earlier, very interesting stuff. I've been doing intermittent fasting the more well known way of a 8 hour feeding window each day. Think I'm going to figure how to fit two days at 600 in to my week. I'm guessing protein would lower to around 70g on those two days so in my case I need to bump the other 5 days by roughly 45g protein.

Sounds easy enough, do you think it needs all be in one meal or could I have 5g bcaa in the morning and lunch then have dinner? They mentioned it didn't matter what time of day you got the 600cals but not about no. of meals.


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## davesays (Aug 9, 2012)

The premise of intermittent fasting is interesting and it certainly is proven to work.

However I am a big believer in cals in vs cals out, and enjoy my bowl of cereal at night time


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## Bamse (Feb 5, 2011)

Katy said:


> The idea behind it is that the body's stress response to starvation is to generate new cells (including neurones) as opposed to just repairing old ones.


Are you sure they used the term 'starvation'? Because not eating for a day hardly qualifies as starvation.


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

anyone who's serious about IFing should soak up as much as they can from www.leangains.com, this guy seriously knows his stuff


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## mark22 (Jul 13, 2011)

Bamse said:


> Are you sure they used the term 'starvation'? Because not eating for a day hardly qualifies as starvation.


I think they said it was a reaction to the hunger feelings.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

A good ebook on that.

EAT-STOP-EAT_BPILON.pdf


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## Bamse (Feb 5, 2011)

Hackskii, you naughty man. I think the author wants to be paid for that.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bamse said:


> Hackskii, you naughty man. I think the author wants to be paid for that.


I bet he does, should I rename it? :lol:


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## Bamse (Feb 5, 2011)

hackskii said:


> I bet he does, should I rename it? :lol:


Change the title and put yourself down as the author, I'm sure he won't mind.


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## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

Yes I did and I agree with the concept of fasting, in fact I recommend it for both humans and animals.

Kaza


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## 25081 (Nov 24, 2011)

Phil D said:


> anyone who's serious about IFing should soak up as much as they can from www.leangains.com, this guy seriously knows his stuff


x2. I love IF and took everything I know about it from this site.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

mark22 said:


> Watched this earlier, very interesting stuff. I've been doing intermittent fasting the more well known way of a 8 hour feeding window each day. Think I'm going to figure how to fit two days at 600 in to my week. I'm guessing protein would lower to around 70g on those two days so in my case I need to bump the other 5 days by roughly 45g protein.
> 
> Sounds easy enough, do you think it needs all be in one meal or could I have 5g bcaa in the morning and lunch then have dinner? They mentioned it didn't matter what time of day you got the 600cals but not about no. of meals.


I listened to a radio interview with Michael Mosely and the researcher looking into the affects of neurological preservation and neurone generation (it's worht a listen) and Mosely said that he split the kcals between two meals and was getting great results. I've therefore split mine between breakfast and dinner as well. For me, psychologically, they're the meals I get most enjoyment from. Yesterday was my first day; I had smoked trout, 1 egg and lettuce for breakfast. Some watermellon around 3pm and then salmon and lettuce for dinner. That's for 400 to 500kcals and it was fine.



Bamse said:


> Are you sure they used the term 'starvation'? Because not eating for a day hardly qualifies as starvation.


No I don't think they did. It of course isn't starvation it's just a period of limitied calories.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Katy said:


> I listened to a radio interview with Michael Mosely and the researcher looking into the affects of neurological preservation and neurone generation (it's worht a listen) and Mosely said that he split the kcals between two meals and was getting great results. I've therefore split mine between breakfast and dinner as well. For me, psychologically, they're the meals I get most enjoyment from. Yesterday was my first day; I had smoked trout, 1 egg and lettuce for breakfast. Some watermellon around 3pm and then salmon and lettuce for dinner. That's for 400 to 500kcals and it was fine.
> 
> No I don't think they did. It of course isn't starvation it's just a period of limitied calories.


When is the best time to do the two days of low calories. On rest days? X


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

YummyMummy said:


> When is the best time to do the two days of low calories. On rest days? X


Personally, I think there are hypothetical pros and cons for both fasting on training or rest days. I would put the fast where it best suits your schedule, as apposed to your training. I used to 'fast' until 2 p.m. everyday, and then twice a week I would do a 23 hour fast (after these fasts I would have a small meal). Sometimes I put the 23 hour fasts back to back. I always train fasted anyway, so as far as doing the 23 hour fast on a training day or not, didn't make a difference. Not sure I could comment on recovery in terms of when I fasted, as to be perfectly honest, I felt good to go regardless. I did a lot of running, rowing etc on non weights days to - mostly I would train in some form 7 days a week. I did this for just over 2 years, maybe longer (times gone a bit funny lately, haha). I only stopped this eating pattern as my lifestyle changed, and so I'm better suited to getting food in when I can, as else I struggle to get the kcals in.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Greenspin said:


> Personally, I think there are hypothetical pros and cons for both fasting on training or rest days. I would put the fast where it best suits your schedule, as apposed to your training. I used to 'fast' until 2 p.m. everyday, and then twice a week I would do a 23 hour fast (after these fasts I would have a small meal). Sometimes I put the 23 hour fasts back to back. I always train fasted anyway, so as far as doing the 23 hour fast on a training day or not, didn't make a difference. Not sure I could comment on recovery in terms of when I fasted, as to be perfectly honest, I felt good to go regardless. I did a lot of running, rowing etc on non weights days to - mostly I would train in some form 7 days a week. I did this for just over 2 years, maybe longer (times gone a bit funny lately, haha). I only stopped this eating pattern as my lifestyle changed, and so I'm better suited to getting food in when I can, as else I struggle to get the kcals in.


 nice to know green

Can I do the 5:2 without loosing too much muscle or is it not logical when weight lifting


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

YummyMummy said:


> nice to know green
> 
> Can I do the 5:2 without loosing too much muscle or is it not logical when weight lifting


Couldn't say with much confidence, as I'm not sure there is a definitive answer. Resistance training stimulates your body to retain muscle, and with a decent diet and dieting approach (slow and steady), I think you should be able to retain a decent amount of muscle mass. But that is more my opinion from my own experience, and what I knowledge I can claim to have on the subject (which isn't a great deal). I'm assuming you're not a 20 stone bodybuilder, so I think a gentle approach to dieting, with the inclusion of a couple of 24 hour fast should be just as viable an approach as being in a daily calorie deficit.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Greenspin said:


> Couldn't say with much confidence, as I'm not sure there is a definitive answer. Resistance training stimulates your body to retain muscle, and with a decent diet and dieting approach (slow and steady), I think you should be able to retain a decent amount of muscle mass. But that is more my opinion from my own experience, and what I knowledge I can claim to have on the subject (which isn't a great deal). I'm assuming you're not a 20 stone bodybuilder, so I think a gentle approach to dieting, with the inclusion of a couple of 24 hour fast should be just as viable an approach as being in a daily calorie deficit.


My body is 33% body fat... which is bad. I think its probably a diet that I can stick with.

I love fitness so there is no problem at that end.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

YummyMummy said:


> My body is 33% body fat... which is bad. I think its probably a diet that I can stick with.
> 
> I love fitness so there is no problem at that end.


Personally, I think fasting is interesting. I would say give it a try if you're willing and happy to. Intuitively, I think it's something the body could benefit from - but that is just intuition. When I said about being a 20 stone bodybuilder, I was more suggesting I was assuming you are not at an unnaturally high level of muscularity, that might require some extra considerations to maintain it, so to speak.

One thing I like about fasting and dieting is that when I start to eat I often just want to carry on eating. But when fasting, I find it easy not to eat at all. So that in it's self is worth it for me regardless of any potential physiological response the body might have to the fast.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Greenspin said:


> Personally, I think fasting is interesting. I would say give it a try if you're willing and happy to. Intuitively, I think it's something the body could benefit from - but that is just intuition. When I said about being a 20 stone bodybuilder, I was more suggesting I was assuming you are not at an unnaturally high level of muscularity, that might require some extra maintenance to maintain, so to speak.
> 
> One thing I like about fasting and dieting is that when I start to eat I often just want to carry on eating. But when fasting, I find it easy not to eat at all. So that in it's self is worth it for me regardless of any potential physiological response the body might have to the fast.


Quite looking forward to giving it a go .. like a little experiment.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

YummyMummy said:


> When is the best time to do the two days of low calories. On rest days? X


Ooo, this is a bit tricky I think. I had to change my weekly training routine, because on post-workout rest days, I want to feed my body to enable muscle growth and repair...not strave it! So I changed my training week to enable 2 rest days post workout days; the first day after training to feed my body, followed by a second fasting day...and then back to training. That worked best for me


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

http://www.nowloss.com/intermittent-fasting-diet-plan.htm


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

Suprised that no one has said that bodybuilders tend to not want a drop IGF-1?

Plus Martin Berkhan is bat**** crazy but that doesn't mean there isn't merit in the IF science and ideas.

I did some IF before when dieting as fat burning drugs, peps, GH etc tend to like the fasted state with regards to fat loss. Worked well, not sure how much better than normal dieting protocol though.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Superhorse said:


> Suprised that no one has said that bodybuilders tend to not want a drop IGF-1?
> 
> Plus Martin Berkhan is bat**** crazy but that doesn't mean there isn't merit in the IF science and ideas.
> 
> I did some IF before when dieting as fat burning drugs, peps, GH etc tend to like the fasted state with regards to fat loss. Worked well, not sure how much better than normal dieting protocol though.


I've mentioned it a fair but; that for BB'ers the impact on IGF-1 needs to be considered. For some, the long term health benefits might win over the desire for the benefits of higher IGF-1 levels


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## Ukmeathead (Dec 4, 2010)

nitrogen said:


> http://www.nowloss.com/intermittent-fasting-diet-plan.htm


Good link reading over a few of there articles now


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

Katy said:


> I've mentioned it a fair but; that for BB'ers the impact on IGF-1 needs to be considered. For some, the long term health benefits might win over the desire for the benefits of higher IGF-1 levels


I'm not disagreeing for a lot of people but for the truly large guys or guys trying to get to stage and do well then they probably aren't worried about the long term health benefits...

Horses for courses though.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Superhorse said:


> I'm not disagreeing for a lot of people but for the truly large guys or guys trying to get to stage and do well then they probably aren't worried about the long term health benefits...
> 
> Horses for courses though.


I agree


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Can I chew gum whilst fasting?

Only reason being, It really takes my mind off of eating, but obviously contains a small amount of calories...


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Ben_Dover said:


> Can I chew gum whilst fasting?
> 
> Only reason being, It really takes my mind off of eating, but obviously contains a small amount of calories...


yes of course, most gum is sugar free anyway. I have coffee with sweetener and a small splash of milk during my fast and it hasnt affected results to my knowledge


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> yes of course, most gum is sugar free anyway. I have coffee with sweetener and a small splash of milk during my fast and it hasnt affected results to my knowledge


Agree, it's perfectly fine to chew gum! I find it makes things worse fro me though because chewing stimulates your stomach to prepare for food...but of course food never comes! So my stomach just rumbles! It' pretty sure this is why people prone to stomach ulcers or acid issues are advised not to chew gum.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Katy said:


> Agree, it's perfectly fine to chew gum! I find it makes things worse fro me though because chewing stimulates your stomach to prepare for food...but of course food never comes! So my stomach just rumbles! It' pretty sure this is why people prone to stomach ulcers or acid issues are advised not to chew gum.


Yeah I find it only takes the edge of temporarily, maybe good if you only have an hour to go lol


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> Yeah I find it only takes the edge of temporarily, maybe good if you only have an hour to go lol


I live off herbal teas when fasting; fills my stomach up and acts as a sort of pacifier!! :laugh:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Katy said:


> I live off herbal teas when fasting; fills my stomach up and acts as a sort of pacifier!! :laugh:


I find I need 2 bags in herbal teas, don't u find them bland lol


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> I find I need 2 bags in herbal teas, don't u find them bland lol


They are bland yeah. But you do adapt. Also, I've had to try a fair few to find the ones I like. Clippers do more intense flavours than twinnings so I mostly have clippers. Although I have been having twinings camomile and spiced apple a lot lately.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

I used to do things like chew gum, drink coffee etc, to make the fast more seamless. But in the end, having a stomach full of fluid, or a mouth chewing eventually flavourless gum etc, just reminded me that I was doing something instead of eating. Best thing I found was just to keep busy and drink water when needed. Days of low physical activity are horrible on a fast, IMO. Being up and active passes time, provides stimulus to other body parts than your gut taking the focus off your gut etc. Sometimes when I fasted and just sat to work, I would get pretty agitated tbf (talking about 24+ hour fasts here). Also drinking coffee and herbal teas and chewing gum can all get pretty habitual, and so keeping the fast on your mind.


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

How is this kind of diet for muscle preservation??


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