# From fat to stage...



## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Ok I've decided to start this to keep me on track and to get some advice along the way.

I used to weight train regular and got to 18 stone at 6'2" and about 20% bodyfat.

I stopped training when my daughter was born 3 years ago, lost my size, got fat, then started circuit training to drop the fat, started boxing, had a few fights, stopped boxing and got fat again. That's about the summary.

This is me now after 12 months of no training at all. Can anyone estimate my bodyfat please?

The mirror in the first 2 pics is the only big mirror in my house at the moment so the next 3 photos are taken using the video camera on my phone and then screen shots so excuse the quality...





































I have decided to lean bulk because I don't want to cut and end up just small because there isn't really any muscle to cut onto.

My short term aim is to walk around day to day and look like I train. Long term aim is to stand on stage in a competition.

I am 100% dedicated to this now and want it more than anything. Diet is nailed. I will post this over the coming days along with training.

Thanks. Gaz.


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## Jack_Wilsh (Apr 14, 2013)

your higher than 20% bodyfat but good luck, hope you stick to it!


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

No I meant I was 18 stone and 20% after I had been training solid and bulking. That was a few years ago.

I'm now 16 stone and 25% at a guess?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

My diet normally drops off at weekends, not this time around.

Prepared my meals last night.

Oats and whey for breakfast at 8am.

150g diced turkey, 125g brown rice, handful veg at 11, 2 and 5.

Will have a shake at 8pm and a tub of cottage cheese at 10pm.

Gaz.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

but what happens if you eat all that food then lose interest again?

cut first, see what`s there.


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## Kev1980 (Jan 18, 2011)

Watching


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> My diet normally drops off at weekends, not this time around.
> 
> Prepared my meals last night.
> 
> ...


That all you eat?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

saxondale said:


> but what happens if you eat all that food then lose interest again?
> 
> cut first, see what`s there.


Saxondale - losing interest is not an option. This is happening. I'm happy to cut first if that's what people advise me to do but I think I will just spend 6 months working my **** off and look skinny in a tshirt which couldn't be further from my goal.


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Kev1980 said:


> Watching


Kev - Thanks for watching.


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> That all you eat?


Sckeane - I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not?


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> Sckeane - I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not?


No mate genuine question lol doesn't look like enough protein


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## bobbydrake (Nov 19, 2012)

What about snacks (almonds etc)? Doesn't look like you will be eating anywhere near enough. Is that just one days food and you will mix it up (eggs for breakfast next day etc)?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

I hit about 200g protein a day mate. There might be just under there but as a general rule it's around 200-220.

This is me approx 2 years ago when I was lifting heavy weights...










This is after 12 months off training...










And this was 8 weeks later after training and dieting...










Can anyone estimate bf % there for me please?

Do you think I should get back to that level before trying to clean bulk?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

bobbydrake said:


> What about snacks (almonds etc)? Doesn't look like you will be eating anywhere near enough. Is that just one days food and you will mix it up (eggs for breakfast next day etc)?


The turkey veg and brown rice is 3 meals a day. Did you see that bit or not?

And yes I will mix it up and stay within macros.


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## bobbydrake (Nov 19, 2012)

You can easily shift the fat round your middle - it depends which you really want to do. If it was me I would prefer to cut - go low carb (so no potatoes/bread/pasta - maybe quinoa instead of brown rice etc). Definitely throw some eggs in there - I did see your days food but get some more food in you especially healthy fats. Cutting carbs will definitely help with bodyfat % (I did it last year and went from around 20% bodyfat to around 11-12% now). As long as you keep weight lifting at the same time it is still possible to put muscle on as well as losing bodyfat.


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Look around 20%

I would just eat **** loads and eat clean, cardio and weights


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> Look around 20%
> 
> I would just eat **** loads and eat clean, cardio and weights


This is my dilemma.

I've got 2 clearly knowledgeable guys, one telling me to cut down and one telling me to eat **** loads.

At the minute I'm aiming to hit 3000 calories a day - all clean. But this is over my maintenance calories.

I could cut carbs and drop Calories to 2000 and drop the fat in say 12 weeks and then reasses with a view to start a clean bulk?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> Look around 20%
> 
> I would just eat **** loads and eat clean, cardio and weights


Only just seen your comment about body fat %. You think about 20% in the first lot of pics? Or the last one?

Cheers.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> .
> 
> I could cut carbs and drop Calories to 2000 and drop the fat in say 12 weeks and then reasses with a view to start a clean bulk?


do this, you`ll soon look like you have been in the gym, people will open doors for you and women will stare as you walk past.

we`re all saying the same thing really - sort the diet.


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> This is my dilemma.
> 
> I've got 2 clearly knowledgeable guys, one telling me to cut down and one telling me to eat **** loads.
> 
> ...


Thing is bud it's not the same for everyone, one person could consume 3500 cals and just lift yet not get fat, other guy could do the same and be gaining both fat and muscle.

For me what works is eating a lot, but all clean cals I.e pasta rice chicken pork beef tuna veg shakes eggs brown bread, nicely seasoned, constant grazing and lifting till I can't anymore is what works for me.. I don't go by sets and reps just heavy till failiure then dropset repeat.

You look to thin muscle wise to cut, you'll be left with skin and bone mate I wouldn't cut unless I was stackeddddd


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> Thing is bud it's not the same for everyone, one person could consume 3500 cals and just lift yet not get fat, other guy could do the same and be gaining both fat and muscle.
> 
> For me what works is eating a lot, but all clean cals I.e pasta rice chicken pork beef tuna veg shakes eggs brown bread, nicely seasoned, constant grazing and lifting till I can't anymore is what works for me.. I don't go by sets and reps just heavy till failiure then dropset repeat.
> 
> You look to thin muscle wise to cut, you'll be left with skin and bone mate I wouldn't cut unless I was stackeddddd


This is what I've done this week and planned to do for about 12 weeks and then reassess.

I've just picked a random day from this week...

6:30 - Train

7:30 - PWO shake with 10ml EVOO.

9:00 - 2 x Burgen Bread, 4 x Eggs

12:00 - 150g Turkey, 125g Brown Rice, Handful Steamed Veg.

15:00 - 150g Turkey, 125g Brown Rice, Handful Steamed Veg.

18:00 - 200g Smoked Fish, 2 x Eggs, 2 x Burgen Bread, 10ml EVOO.

21:00 - 300g Cottage Cheese.


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> This is what I've done this week and planned to do for about 12 weeks and then reassess.
> 
> I've just picked a random day from this week...
> 
> ...


Thing is 9 is your last meal, for me in bed around 12-1 and up at 8

Personally for me I would and in 2 more whey shakes and an extra 200g of meat with something (so 1 more actual meal)

Just my opinion of course


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> Thing is 9 is your last meal, for me in bed around 12-1 and up at 8
> 
> Personally for me I would and in 2 more whey shakes and an extra 200g of meat with something (so 1 more actual meal)
> 
> Just my opinion of course


Ok thanks pal. Will take that on board. Last meal is at 9 but I go to bed about 9:30. Always have. And get up at 6.


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> Ok thanks pal. Will take that on board. Last meal is at 9 but I go to bed about 9:30. Always have. And get up at 6.


No worries mate anything to help if I can lol.

Yeah its the trouble fitting them in, try it as see how you go, even if its a smaller portion


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> No worries mate anything to help if I can lol.
> 
> Yeah its the trouble fitting them in, try it as see how you go, even if its a smaller portion


Ok cheers. I will post updates with diet and training every couple of days and will repost pics every 2 weeks so people can see my progress.


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## Don Myo (Apr 28, 2013)

Cut to at least 10-12% or where you see at least some abs deginition, then bulk up, mate. If you will bulk up when you are fat, you will have to lose even more fat one day, why not do it first? Your growth rate will be a a lot better when you are lean too. Eat clean, but limit your carbs to 2 meals pwo, the rest just protein and some fat, train with no food in your system, this is the most effective fat burnimg tool.


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## Skinny Guy (Jul 24, 2011)

Good luck with it mate, but why so angry in the photos lol :lol:


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## loganator (Mar 19, 2011)

Strength_Asylum said:


> Ok I've decided to start this to keep me on track and to get some advice along the way.
> 
> I used to weight train regular and got to 18 stone at 6'2" and about 20% bodyfat.
> 
> ...


Good luck mate


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Don Myo said:


> Cut to at least 10-12% or where you see at least some abs deginition, then bulk up, mate. If you will bulk up when you are fat, you will have to lose even more fat one day, why not do it first? Your growth rate will be a a lot better when you are lean too. Eat clean, but limit your carbs to 2 meals pwo, the rest just protein and some fat, train with no food in your system, this is the most effective fat burnimg tool.


If you were going down this route then what sort of calories would you be talking? Maintanance calories? Or

Under?

And also what roughly is 12% bf? In relation to this pic...


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Don Myo said:


> Cut to at least 10-12% or where you see at least some abs deginition, then bulk up
> 
> If you will bulk up when you are fat, you will have to lose even more fat one day
> 
> ...


1. Why would you do that?

2. Bulking doesn't mean getting fat, it's normally eating in a calorific surplus and for a natty trainer probably over 200-300cals, so 'having to lose even more fat' won't be an option, whole point of bulking is to make the most of nutrients to your body for growth. Best way imo is to eat big and clean and lift till you can't anymore, this achieves fat burning and muscle growth

3. How will being lean be better for 'growth rate' and what 'growth rate' are you talking about? If anything being lean and trying to build muscle will be harder as when training for extended periods you have less fat stored to use for energy so your body will start breaking down proteins/muscle tissue to use as a source of power.

4. Train with no food in your system is the best fat burning tool... Why? It's commonly known that to burn fat your heart rate needs to be between 110-130 which can be achieved by light cardio and even heavy lifting sooooo.....

I don't understand your advice


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

sckeane said:


> 1. Why would you do that?
> 
> 2. Bulking doesn't mean getting fat, it's normally eating in a calorific surplus and for a natty trainer probably over 200-300cals, so 'having to lose even more fat' won't be an option, whole point of bulking is to make the most of nutrients to your body for growth. Best way imo is to eat big and clean and lift till you can't anymore, this achieves fat burning and muscle growth
> 
> ...


Sckeane - Any chance you could drop me an email mate? I can't use PM yet.

[email protected]


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## lotus (May 30, 2009)

IMO your about 15/16 in that pic . I prefer being lean with abs before I bulk so it's alot easier to judge the quality of mass I'm putting on , I find if I'm not that lean to start with I end up chasing the scales instead of the mirror and get fat .


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Strength_Asylum said:


> Sckeane - Any chance you could drop me an email mate? I can't use PM yet.
> 
> [email protected]


Done mate


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## Don Myo (Apr 28, 2013)

sckeane said:


> 1. Why would you do that?
> 
> 2. Bulking doesn't mean getting fat, it's normally eating in a calorific surplus and for a natty trainer probably over 200-300cals, so 'having to lose even more fat' won't be an option, whole point of bulking is to make the most of nutrients to your body for growth. Best way imo is to eat big and clean and lift till you can't anymore, this achieves fat burning and muscle growth
> 
> ...


If you want to put on muscle you have to eat calorie surpluss, you, me or whatever none knows how much cals over over mainenance to eat to build pure muscle, hell we do not know how much our maintenance cals are we can only estimate, estamate maintenance, estimate surplus and at the end of the day we eat way more than just to gain pure muscle. Gaining pure muscle is possible theoretically, but impossible in reality, especially with no drugs, unless you have had muscles in the past and regain what you had.

When you are lean your insulin sensitivity is a lot higher. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone. When you are fat your insulin sensitivity is messed up.

Fat is unlimited source of energy, it is stored all over the body. If you eat carbs prew your body uses it as a main energy source, when you are trying to lose fat you want to burn as much fat as often as possible no carbs, even no protein prew is the best way to do it, believe you will have lots of energy training fasted and you will not lose any muscle if you will get your macronutrients pwo, during the day. You do not need to eat protein every 3 hours or prew that is BS made by supplement companies. You have to starve yourself more than 36 hours to leave no amino acids in the bloodstream.


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Don Myo said:


> If you want to put on muscle you have to eat calorie surpluss, you, me or whatever none knows how much cals over over mainenance to eat to build pure muscle, hell we do not know how much our maintenance cals are we can only estimate, estamate maintenance, estimate surplus and at the end of the day we eat way more than just to gain pure muscle. Gaining pure muscle is possible theoretically, but impossible in reality, especially with no drugs, unless you have had muscles in the past and regain what you had.
> 
> When you are lean your insulin sensitivity is a lot higher. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone. When you are fat your insulin sensitivity is messed up.
> 
> Fat is unlimited source of energy, it is stored all over the body. If you eat carbs prew your body uses it as a main energy source, when you are trying to lose fat you want to burn as much fat as often as possible no carbs, even no protein prew is the best way to do it, believe you will have lots of energy training fasted and you will not lose any muscle if you will get your macronutrients pwo, during the day. You do not need to eat protein every 3 hours or prew that is BS made by supplement companies. You have to starve yourself more than 36 hours to leave no amino acids in the bloodstream.


Good info, but In a nutshell, this varies from person to person


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## Don Myo (Apr 28, 2013)

sckeane said:


> Good info, but In a nutshell, this varies from person to person[/quote
> 
> Absolutely agree with you.
> 
> Natural vs enhanced, lean vs fat, fast metabolism vs endo etc there are a lot of variables. Someone whois 250 pounds very lean and on lots of t3,hgj,tren,test etc neefs to feed himself constantly not to lose muscle tissue, but for someone who is fat, natural the same principles does not apply. There is no need to feed the fat. Feed when needed to avoid muscle breakdown,catabolism,create anabolic enviroment then starve when needed to burn that fat then repeat


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Don Myo said:


> The theory is sound but how do you know when to feed to prevent muscle breaks down and when to starve to burn fat?


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## Don Myo (Apr 28, 2013)

Strength_Asylum said:


> After your workouts is the best time for feeding. If you are not enhaced athlete you are not in anabolic environment all the time, you don't need to eat every 3 hours or whatever. IF you want to lose fat as quickly as possibe - eat ony when you need, and don't eat when you don't need, as I said - there is not need to feed the fat, you want to burn that fat.


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## dopper (Aug 11, 2010)

Strength_Asylum said:


> My diet normally drops off at weekends, not this time around.
> 
> Prepared my meals last night.
> 
> ...


Have you worked out your macro requirements?

Whats the macro break down of that diet plan mate?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

I work my macros out every day on a spreadsheet mate yeh.

I haven't got it on my phone at the moment but I've been hitting approximately 2500 kcals, 250g protein, 200g carbs, 70g fat.

I can't decide wether to up them to 3000 and lean bulk or drop them to 1800 and drop carbs right down and cut. As said before though I don't really think I've got enough muscle to start cutting.

What's your diet like?

Thanks for the spot this morning. Give me a shout if ever you need one.

Gaz


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## dopper (Aug 11, 2010)

Strength_Asylum said:


> I work my macros out every day on a spreadsheet mate yeh.
> 
> I haven't got it on my phone at the moment but I've been hitting approximately 2500 kcals, 250g protein, 200g carbs, 70g fat.
> 
> ...


Its alright mate.

I currently aim for fat 82.8g, protein 372.7g and carbohydrates 372.7g which should work out to around 3700 calories. I try to do this with no more than 2 protein shakes a day as they don't agree with my digestive system if I have any more than this.

The easy part is getting one meal plan to fit these macros but trying to add some variety whilst keeping the ratios similar is a nightmare to be honest!

2500 doesn't seem like a lot of calories to be honest but i suppose it depends on what your goals are (cut or BULK). Whats your BMR?


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Sounds like you have got it worked out pretty well.

I'm going to have a chat with my mate tomorrow night who is pro bodybuilder. I am taking my last 2 weeks daily macros and training routines and let him have some input.

Hopefully I will come away with my mind made up wether I'm going to bulk or cut and what calories I'm going to aim for.

My BMR is 2225.


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Yesterday...

06:00	Pre Workout Black Coffee

06:30	Gym

07:30	Protein Plus 500ml RTD Shake

09:00	100g Chicken Breast

125g Brown Rice

1/2 Bag Steamed Veg

2 x Boiled Eggs

12:00	100g Chicken Breast

125g Brown Rice

1/2 Bag Steamed Veg

16:00	100g Chicken Breast

4 x Boiled Eggs

19:00	2 Scoops ON Gold Whey

Total - 2000 Kcals, 238g Protein, 135g Carbs, 50g Fat.


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

I have been sticking to my clean bulking diet of around 3000 Calories and lifting heavy 3 times per week.

I have been 16 stone consistently on the scales so im assuming I have lost a bit of fat and gained a bit of muscle.

However i have had a bit of a change of heart this week and have decided that as opposed to bulking i am going to cut, get very low body fat and hopefully look good without a top on, then clean bulk and try to keep body fat no higher than 12-15%.

Main reason for the change of heart is the good weather and being too fat to take my top off and look good.

I am planning to keep lifting heavy 3 times per week - Mon, Wed, Fri before work. And then on Tues, Thurs and Sat Evenings do some cardio workouts from the Insanity DVDs. I know ideally the cardio would be AM and the weights PM but my training partner can only train AM and i dont want to stop lifting with him.

Diet will be as follows...

8am - 6 Whole Eggs. (432 calories)

10am - 50g Whey Protein with 1 tbsp Organic Peanut Butter. (322 calories)

13.00 - 225g Chicken with Handful Cashew Nuts. (484 calories)

16: 00 - 50g Whey Protein with 1 tbsp Organic Peanut Butter. (322 calories)

18:00 - 225g fish or steak with a green salad and ½ Avocado. (410 calories)

21:00 - 50g Whey Protein with 1 tbsp Natty Peanut Butter. (322)

Total - 2292 Calories

Will this get me into Ketosis or does it need tweaking? Thanks. Gaz


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Bump


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Ok this is a photo from yesterday...










Yesterdays diet was...

08.00 - Tin Tuna, Tbsp Mayo

11.30 - 250g Smoked Salmon

14.00 - Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter

15.00 - 2 Scoops ON Gold Whey

18.00 - Ommelette made with 4 x Eggs, Tin Tuna, 60g Cheese.

21.00 - 1 Scoop ON Gold Whey

Total - 2117 Calories.


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Not sure if anyone is following this but I will keep posting progress anyway.

Lost just under a stone now, initially mostly water I'm sure but definitely put muscle on so fat loss is inevitable.

I did do 9 days ketosis but it was killing me and I felt awful so I'm just carb cycling now. 3 low, 3 medium, 1 Refeed. Eating 3000 clean calories.

Training like an animal.

Mon - Push

Tue - MMA Cardio Circuit

Wed - Pull

Thurs - MMA Cardio Circuit

Fri - Legs

Weekends rest although I've been going for a 5km jog on Saturday mornings.

Deadlifts yesterday - 100kg x 8, 140kg x 6, 160kg x 2.

Then did 100kg for reps to fail and managed 14.

Photo from this morning, I think my body composition is slowly changing...


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Good luck with this mate, I am following now. Can't offer to much advice but will offer a great avi to perv at haha


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Haha brilliant thanks pal.

I won't update daily or post my diet every day but I'm eating clean and training hard.

Cheers. Gaz.


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Strength_Asylum said:


> Haha brilliant thanks pal.
> 
> I won't update daily or post my diet every day but I'm eating clean and training hard.
> 
> Cheers. Gaz.


You gone quiet mate, everything all good I hope


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## Strength_Asylum (Apr 23, 2013)

Thanks for following, i didnt think anyone was particularly interested so i took a back seat from posting.

My goals have changed slightly since i first started, Im more interested in getting fit and stripping fat than the "stepping on stage". For now anyway.

Im lifting heavy twice a week and doing cardio 4-5 times a week. Ive set myself the goal of a 10km run in september which i should do with ease now.

I will get some progress pics up shortly.

Cheers

Gaz


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## paulandabbi (Mar 13, 2013)

Strength_Asylum said:


> Thanks for following, i didnt think anyone was particularly interested so i took a back seat from posting.
> 
> My goals have changed slightly since i first started, Im more interested in getting fit and stripping fat than the "stepping on stage". For now anyway.
> 
> ...


Good man, I will keep an eye out for the pic update 

Thats probably a more realistic target to start with and then when you get a bit further along then change your target again. That way you won't feel like your failing!!

Keep it up mate!!


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## Big_Al13 (May 2, 2013)

Should have posted saying I've subbed on.

Good progress so far pal, keep on going. It can be a bit demoralising when you are posting and no body is posting back, my journal was like that but eventually people come and look and post.

Keep on it chap! :thumb:


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

get lean. DIET YOUR ASS OFF for 10-12 weeks. my avi is about 8-10 weeks in to diet.

I had very low carbs. high fat/protein. id have pineapple post workout and a carb up on a sunday morning +cheat meal sat night.

Its all a head game. get ur head in check and you can do it no trouble


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