# PCT - HGH, SLIN, IGF



## CK1 (Mar 30, 2008)

Looking for some expirences, opinions and help from those who use any of these either on or off gear please?

I plan on starting use in PCT after a long time on, I've used hgh and igf in the past but they were used on there own. Slin I have never used. I shall be changing to every other day (EOD) workouts in PCT for more rest and recovery before each workout i.e. no back to back W/O days.

Aim is to maintain muscle and perhaps add a cheaky lb or two.

HGH to be run 8-10IU EOD on workout days depending on what i get. this will be run for 24 weeks minimum. However, time off could only last 8-12 weeks (depending on bloods)

*Now should i run Slin @ 4-10IU (depending on reactions) + 10IU HGH directly PWO in same pin IM? or split Slin to PWO & GH pre-bed Sub-q?*

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**And the same again with IGF @ 50-100mcg PWO with HGH or split PWO and HGH pre-bed?*

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What would be best 4 weeks Slin 4 weeks IGF or just Slin for 8-12 weeks?*

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Is there much point runing HGH + SLIN + IGF all together? how would you do this timings wise?*

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Or maybe you would just run IGF/Slin changing every 4 weeks?*

Thanks for any response, tried to read as much as i can but so many diferent views and old and new posts from the same people giving a slighty different answer, I'm getting confused with this subject :confused1: (maybe i should just stay on :lol: )


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

Here is an article by Gavin Kane regarding the use of all three....

Question and Answer with Gavin Kane

In this section, I will take some of the more commonly asked questions by way of Private Mail and bring them online for everyone to benefit from.

Question 1)

Hey Gavin,

I have read all your articles on growth hormone, insulin, and finally igf, but I am still having a hard time putting all three together in a protocol for bulking. Can you outline a simple program for me, something that lists dosages, timing, and optimal use? I have done many cycles of anabolics, as well as insulin and gh, but now I am looking forward to adding in some igf to the mix. Thanks in advance for helping a guy out.

To XXXXXXX

I am happy to help you out bro as it is critical to get the timing sequence down for optimal growth. I have been personally testing different protocols with igf use, having done over 20 different cycles and timing schedules. I also have a few competitive bodybuilders and test subjects off-season testing my new protocols. I have nailed down what I feel is the best protocol at this time, though everything is subject to change as I keep researching.

For now I have found that less is more. I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.

The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.

The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.

So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn't you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.

I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.

For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.

For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.

If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.


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## CK1 (Mar 30, 2008)

thanks con, I think thats a bit complicated to start with as this is first time with slin. I'll go growth and one or the other i think.

I assume EOD will be ok as its only 3/4 days a week depending on the week?

HGH/Slin from what i read is better than HGH/IGF in general?

If i start with GH/slin PWO for the whole 12 weeks unless I don't get on with Slin, in which case i'll switch to HGH/IGF PWO. That sound ok?

Is there really a need to stagger the shot though?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

CK1 said:


> thanks con, I think thats a bit complicated to start with


 http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/muscle-research-forum/23020-methods-i-have-used.html Have your read this thread? Nice basic info which is very easy to understand/follow.


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## CK1 (Mar 30, 2008)

nope missed that one aswell (my searching use of search has been put to shame  )

So GH+SLin PWO

or

IGF PWO & GH pre bed

thanks con!


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Personally id use IGF pre-workout. The benefits of it if nothing else but purely from a muscle fascia stretching point of view, are immense.

GH not before bed. Why would you want to blunt natural secretion of such a valuable and expensive hormone? The jurys out on whether that is the case, granted. But err on the side of caution imo. Times of low GH secretion such as early-mid morning, and mid-afternoon.

Catapres before bed. The only oral product with scientific proof that it enhances natural production. Plus we could all do with lowering night-time BP if on steroids.

Insulin PWO? No.

Hear me out on this one. So if we do create a 'window of opportunity' that some will say only lasts for 'blah-de-blah' Why wouldnt we, as lets say 'supplement' enhancing BB'ers, extend this?

Slin PWO, getting up towards 12ius at times did nothing but give me the runs. Prime example of too much that my body couldnt handle.

Slin an hour or so PWO has imo, extended my 'window'


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

kingprop said:


> GH not before bed. Why would you want to blunt natural secretion of such a valuable and expensive hormone? The jurys out on whether that is the case, granted. But err on the side of caution imo. Times of low GH secretion such as early-mid morning, and mid-afternoon.


I disagree totally...you will blunt natural production of GH no matter when you take it you do not fool the body just because you don't take it at night....

if you think about it Natural Test is lower in the early evening so does that mean if you took your sus then it would not blunt natty production?

the body is not stupid and will see that a synthetic substance has been introduced no matter the time of day....i have read an article on Gavin Kanes site that found no benefit worth speaking off by splitting up the GH dose or taking it at different times of the day....

I take my GH at night works great for me


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Activity and duration of GH and Sust couldnt be more different though Paul. Like ive said the jurys out because if you inject GH before bed, and it has a half life of litterally a couple of hours max, and GH secretion occurs mostly during the latter stages of sleep as im aware, it does look like it makes sense to inject it at that time when the body is at rest and when it naturally chooses to release most of its daily dose.

But I could also argue that starvation, or lack of food is the cause as this is the bodies reaction to thinking its starving so tries to maintain homeostasis. Therefore using a synthetic GH would be better for bodybuilding purposes if taken at times of little or no secretion surely? This would give the most benefits from it.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

not really mate i have seen a study which does not give any differences to timing of the GH shot....

in saying that there is a school of thought that if when you use GH no matter the time of the day and then eat carbs you will stunt the fat burning side of the drug (not stop it but stunt it) there is a great explanation on UKiron by Mallet...

but it still stands that you don't trick the body into maintaining GH production just because you use the GH in the morning the body will detect it no matter when you take it....but as you have said the jury is still out, i can only say what works for me and for me PWO and B4 bed works best.....i understand what you mean by utilising it at low GH points but once you start with GH all your GH producing times will be low....i do know of some guys on some certain boards that still preach the no before bed method but they are unable to give any reason for this apart from their say so


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I guess I must be just a tight **** then. Ive used both protocols and find the spltting up of a lower dose during the day, then taking Clonidine (catapres) before bed works much better. Then again im hardly the king of fat loss am I? lol

I do definately feel that anabolically it was better. And cheaper for me.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

This was my point Dave different protocols work for different people i can only vouch for the methods i have tried on myself and others this is definatly not to say it is the only way, i think your size speaks for it self mate you must be doing something right


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

Thanks. I have read a study about starvation (low blood sugar) and GH release that interested me. It makes sense then the study you have read about sugar intake blunting fat burning. Im interested as I want to gind the best protocol for me for fat loss without having to try out many (like ive said im a tight ass, lol)

So in theory then perhaps the best way to achieve BEST fat loss on the minimal of doses is to awaken in the night and take your GH? But then that still brings my mind back to morning use, after my bodies released its own GH - awakening - 20 mins cardio - then using exogenous GH - consuming protein only -then 2 hours later after active life has disappated eating carbs?


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

is it necessary to wait 2 hours before eating carbs? if so why? and what do you do if you mix slin and gh together when you have to have carbs after slin


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

if you are after fatloss then you need to keep your carbs as far away from the GH shot as possible as they will blunt the effect but not stop it totally....

when you use GH and slin the goal is size/mass so fat loss is not the main objective so eating carbs after the shot is a must..


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> if you are after fat loss then you need to keep your carbs as far away from the GH shot as possible as they will blunt the effect but not stop it totally....
> 
> when you use GH and slin the goal is size/mass so fat loss is not the main objective so eating carbs after the shot is a must..


 Right ok, so am i Right in saying that taking carbs after gh shot only blunts the fat loss effects of it. So if you are using for bulking it would have no real effect if you were to consume carbs straight after shot


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes mate


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

thanks for that cleared something up that has puzzled me for a while:thumb:


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