# Anavar vs Winstrol



## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

*Best for fat burning?*​
Anavar 758.33%Winstrol541.67%


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Which is better? for visceral fat burning effects?

60mg Var ED for 5weeks

or

50mg Winstrol for 4weeks

Which would you rather stack in a cutting cycle? along side Tren and Test? and which would give you better results in over all fat loss around the mid-section.

Before you guys jump in with DIET this and DIET that, and so fourth, My question is not about HOW TO LOSE FAT i can do this perfectly fine, more so about which drug is meant to be more effective at helping this? "Please do not reply if you believe steroids do not help in bodyfat reduction, cause its pretty damn obvious that it does"

So which anabolic steroid is better along side a good diet and training regime for fat burning results around the mid-section.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Do u really rate prov that much empire boy?

What about prov at 50mg ed would that still be worth it as running it at 100mg ed gets quite expensive.

Is it really worth the cost?


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> Neither will burn fat. Only diet, cardio, and fat burners like T3. clenbuterol, dnp, eca etc. will initiate lypolysis. DHT derivatives have nothing to do with lypolysis. They help preserve muscle so you can burn fat through cardio and the use of meds that actually cause lypolysis.
> 
> And your amounts are too low. Anavar 100mg ed and Winstrol 75mg to 100mg ed; and proviron will help ensure more of each binds AR receptors by preventing them from binding SHBG as much, so proviron at 100m ed is a good addittion.


Yeah, I like what you written, makes sense, although, you need to do a little more research before saying steroids don't help the process of fat burning in conjunction with diet and training... I'm not a genius as far as this stuff is concerned, but I've been reading on these forums for well over 3years in total now, and i can promise you theres been studies done that have proven steroids, such as testosterone, Trenbolone, Winstrol, anavar and more, so fourth... which do have effects on fat loss... weather its something to do with the binding affinity of the steroids, or even the fact steroids increase body temprature...

Studies show that visceral fat is burned at higher rates... then someone whos natural.... and personally.... even if im bulking on steroids, i nearly always lean out more on steroids then i do when i train naturally... 8weeks in on a test E cycle above 500mg and i notice my bodyfat melt away, and this has nothing to do with my diet or training as i keep it simple... so whats to explain for this? perhaps its even possibly the fact i run an AI? lowering estrogen also lowers the amount of fat one stores, atleast to my knowledge, so there could be plenty of factors behind it, but i'd rather say its the testosterone rather then the AI.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> Do u really rate prov that much empire boy?
> 
> What about prov at 50mg ed would that still be worth it as running it at 100mg ed gets quite expensive.
> 
> Is it really worth the cost?


I have to say in total honesty, i have ran proviron at 75mg ED for weeks 1-4 and 8-12 on my 3rd ever cycle... and in total honesty i think it was the best cycle i've ever did... I ain't 100% sure if it was due to the effects it has on SHBG but i noticed the testosterone was way more effective at a lower dosage, and my it gave me BONERS from hell LOL... i also kept more of my gains and remained solid throughout... I even managed to keep more of my gains after i used proviron...

I honestly believe its a very good drug and i'd easily invest in more.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

I'd say they indirectly increase fat oxidation through catabolism prevention, ALL dieting depending though, if you don't take AAS and put yourself into 500kcal deficit you may lose 3lbs of weight in first week, 2lbs fat/water and maybe 1lb muscle, now using AAS and 500kcal deficit and lose 3lbs may well be 3lbs of fat/water. But it is really quite impossible to ever prove cause and effect as the variables vary according to varying variations.


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## boricuarage (Jan 2, 2011)

Best cutter... Tren ace, test prop and masteron... Now im back to a fat slob.. lol......


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

I only wish i had the studies... with me, otherwise i'd post them up, Honestly don't care what people say about anabolics not causing fat loss, they clearly do, in some form or way weather its mild or not...

I always keep leaner then adverage on steroid cycles... even if i uppen my calorific intake.


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## Numb (Jan 11, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> I only wish i had the studies... with me, otherwise i'd post them up, Honestly don't care what people say about anabolics not causing fat loss, they clearly do, in some form or way weather its mild or not...
> 
> I always keep leaner then adverage on steroid cycles... even if i uppen my calorific intake.


Why not consult your studies and make an informed decision instead of making a poll then?


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## xkrdan (Aug 1, 2011)

:stupid:


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Numb said:


> Why not consult your studies and make an informed decision instead of making a poll then?


because i was asking which 1 is more effective out of the two.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> You don't have them, the studies, because AAS don't CAUSE lypolysis. But don't stop believin m8!


Ah weyy, can't be ****d to prove it, im hoping a MOD or a VET will come on and perhaps post up some studies... i honestly doubt that im wrong about this, i readed studies ages ago, in a university or something that took on 10 people and also children who used the drug to increase high? dunno if the studies where both the same.... or if it was paintants who sufferd from muscle wastage... or even 3rd degree burns... but it deffo said something about fat loss around the midsection.... who knows? i don't care much anymore... ill just take on board that i could be wrong... but i've seen things in the past that would state other.


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## Numb (Jan 11, 2010)

AceOfSpadez said:


> because i was asking which 1 is more effective out of the two.


The answer is neither of them.

If you want to run a compound irregardless, go with winstrol as gram for gram its cheaper, you need less of it for an effective dose and its more likely to be legit.


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## little_horus (Oct 20, 2010)

I really would like to know where this Anavar/Winstrol fat burning myth comes from? To be fair, the original poster hasn't been the first to raise this topic. Both compounds defiantly have hardening properties, but this tends to be most prominent when the user already has a lean physic. Both compounds tend to have to be run at a fairly high dose too. I guess the boost in metabolism and the fact that you'd probably be pushing yourself harder during training *may *help to burn fat; although to treat them as a "fat burner" is complete spunkadoodle!

As mentioned above, the quickest/best way to drop body fat fast is to eat properly and hit the cardio like a motherfcuker day in day out. Consistency is key, but it will work. My current training buddy has lost over 40kg in the last 8 months by just running and diet alone, and I say fair play to the chap. He's now only just been introduced to lifting by myself. Hopefully I can help him tone up a bit. He chooses not to touch anything (whereas I do. Then again both our goals are different)


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm sure anavar has been shown to have some fat burning properties more directly than any other steroid Altho not a great effect.

I think I've read a study posted by pscarb if I remember rightly.

When I get on my laptop Wil have a dig around.


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

bassline boy said:


> LMFAO yeah please be carefull not to get winny foot on 100mg doses this can be agony.


Yeah Spadez stear well clear of 100mg ED winny that sh!t will have your foor up like a balloon! hate the dreaded winny foot

If your gunna run a high dose of winny id recommend a good pair of wooden cloggs to prevent foot issues


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

i wouldnt have thought either directly aided fat loss just imo


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> If you have a study that without a doubt proves anavar DIRECTLY causes lypolysis (not indirectly), but DIRECTLY causes mitochondria to engage in the use of triglycerides to achieve the production of ATP, I'll film myself eating the study and post it up!! As said above, AAS by inhibiting catabolism will indirectly facilitate the oxidation of fatty acids. But unless there was some huge breakthrough in the mechanism of AAS, they have never been shown to directly induce lypolysis. Its not and never has been the way the work!


That and you train harder for longer along with the increase in lbm needing more kcals, gives you the impression its is great for burning fat.

OP, done 2 cycles of var I also read about how it burns fat but didn't really find this to be true, I loved the strength, vascularity and the ability to train like mad but I have lost more body fat by sorting my diet and using EC stacks to control appitite.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

winstrol is hands down stronger then anavar, hands down cheaper and hands down more brutal for the liver. do winny for the last 4-6 weeks of your cycle @50mg ed and load up on milk thistle to protect your liver and it'll still be cheaper then var...


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## bennyrock (Dec 30, 2009)

theBEAST2002 said:


> winstrol is hands down stronger then anavar, hands down cheaper and hands down more brutal for the liver. do winny for the last 4-6 weeks of your cycle @50mg ed and load up on milk thistle to protect your liver and it'll still be cheaper then var...


Milk thistle ?? what for??


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

AceOfSpadez said:


> I only wish i had the studies... with me, otherwise i'd post them up, Honestly don't care what people say about anabolics not causing fat loss, they clearly do, in some form or way weather its mild or not...
> 
> I always keep leaner then adverage on steroid cycles... even if i uppen my calorific intake.


Another reason why you would be leaner on cycles is because if you're eating an excessive amount of protein when youre off gear any that isnt used will be stored as fat cells but when on cycle with protein synthesis increased more of it is likely to be attributed to muscle tissue repair and hence less fat cells.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/74/2/332


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

http://endo.endojournals.org/content/126/2/1229.short


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/74/2/332


It doesn't state anything in cross-reference to diet and training, who knows what the subjects were up to?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

also doesnt tren raise your internal temperature somewhat, increasing your basal metabolic rate?


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Maybe Tren is just the king of anti-catabolic AAS, it may well raise temp but whether this helps with fat burning is another matter, I tend to do less activity if I'm hot and breathless, maybe that cancels it out, even clen and t3, eph and yom for fat burning, p1ssing into the wind if diet is out. DNP on the other hand........


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Conscript said:


> Maybe Tren is just the king of anti-catabolic AAS, it may well raise temp but whether this helps with fat burning is another matter, I tend to do less activity if I'm hot and breathless, maybe that cancels it out, even clen and t3, eph and yom for fat burning, p1ssing into the wind if diet is out. DNP on the other hand........


Lol


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Empire Boy said:


> If you have a study that without a doubt proves anavar DIRECTLY causes lypolysis (not indirectly), but DIRECTLY causes mitochondria to engage in the use of triglycerides to achieve the production of ATP, I'll film myself eating the study and post it up!! As said above, AAS by inhibiting catabolism will indirectly facilitate the oxidation of fatty acids. But unless there was some huge breakthrough in the mechanism of AAS, they have never been shown to directly induce lypolysis. Its not and never has been the way the work!


Now ure putting words oin my post i believe sir


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

this was the abstract i had read. Now i havnt read the full study

ovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders : Journal of the International Association for the Study of Obesity [1995, 19(9):614-24]

Type: Clinical Trial, Journal Article, Randomized Controlled Trial, Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't

Abstract Highlight Terms

Diseases(1) Genes/Proteins(1) Species(1) Chemicals(10)

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means.

DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point.

SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters.

RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters.

CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.

link

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/8574271


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

I dnt believe any steroid has a direct effect on lipolysis. As we both no the mechanism just isn't there.

However I do believe some help indirect like in this case and for a competitive bodybuilder or some1 like a model perhaps this info is good to no as would give another useful effect of anavar even if it's just a little.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

synthasize said:


> Another reason why you would be leaner on cycles is because if you're eating an excessive amount of protein when youre off gear any that isnt used will be stored as fat cells but when on cycle with protein synthesis increased more of it is likely to be attributed to muscle tissue repair and hence less fat cells.


Then this is proven that steroids CAN however cause fatloss, it doesn't matter WHAT THE LINK IS BETWEEN IS... i get leaner... weather its due to the increase of protein synthesis or what, its still causing me to get leaner? i notice this each cycle i do... and i train just as hard and eat just as clean off cycle.


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## AceOfSpadez (May 6, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> "We conclude that there is a significant increase in BMR associated with pharmacological testosterone treatment, w*hich for the most part is explained by the increase in LBM.*"
> 
> In that the testosterone increases LBM by stimulating the production of muscle, not the lysis of fat cells...
> 
> i.e. fatty acid oxidation is therefore related to the overall inhibition of catabolism...this I don't dispute and is well known. But its not a direct fat burning effect! AceofSpadez is arguing that winstrol and/or anavar directly cause the use of fat cells for energy...this just does not happen. This is a myth.


Woah hold on a second, I think you got the wrong end of the stick... my argument is, Testosterone, Anavar, and Winstrol always seem to make me leaner... and my bodyfat lowers? i dunno anything about a DIRECT cause... but what i do know is theres some WEIRD link between steroids and fat loss.... weather its the PROTEIN SYNTHSIS uptake, or the fact they preserve muscle or increase muscle mass making it easier to burn calories? cause if im correct... a bigger muscle will burn off more calories then a smaller muscle... so eitherway? each steroid cycle i've did has resulted in me getting leaner, with or with out cardio, even if it is a 1% drop in bodyfat.


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

AceOfSpadez said:


> Then this is proven that steroids CAN however cause fatloss, it doesn't matter WHAT THE LINK IS BETWEEN IS... i get leaner... weather its due to the increase of protein synthesis or what, its still causing me to get leaner? i notice this each cycle i do... and i train just as hard and eat just as clean off cycle.


No, I wasn't saying the steroids were contributing to lipolysis, but they could prevent lipogenesis from protein, so not fat loss but a better distribution of nutrients.


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## Green_hulk (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi guys,

I am a layman trainer who's used gear on & off for a few years. I've used winstrol before, usually after a bulk cycle of sus and my

condition improves 100%. My fat levels are greatly deduced, the downside for me is that I can't sleep properly on Winstrol, it seems

to speed up my system so much, almost like I'm on a very mild form of speed - all the time.... I don't take it any more coz it messes me up, but I miss the condition that I previously found.

Is this a normal result for winstrol? I'll try Anavar next which will hopefully agree with my system.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Greenie.


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## tommygunnz (Feb 17, 2011)

Hi greenie i would start your own thread rather than jack someone elses you may get a better response


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

little_horus said:


> I really would like to know where this Anavar/Winstrol fat burning myth comes from? To be fair, the original poster hasn't been the first to raise this topic. Both compounds defiantly have hardening properties, but this tends to be most prominent when the user already has a lean physic. Both compounds tend to have to be run at a fairly high dose too. I guess the boost in metabolism and the fact that you'd probably be pushing yourself harder during training *may *help to burn fat; although to treat them as a "fat burner" is complete spunkadoodle!
> 
> As mentioned above, the quickest/best way to drop body fat fast is to eat properly and hit the cardio like a motherfcuker day in day out. Consistency is key, but it will work. My current training buddy has lost over 40kg in the last 8 months by just running and diet alone, and I say fair play to the chap. He's now only just been introduced to lifting by myself. Hopefully I can help him tone up a bit. He chooses not to touch anything (whereas I do. Then again both our goals are different)


THE MYTH of anavar and fat burning comes from the misinterpretation of basically ONE STUDY on ELDERLY males (i.e directly comparable to hypogondal young males). The study is Shroeder in 2004. The study used aged men (65 yo etc) and used 10mg twice a day (20mg/day total)See link below in reply to hilly.



hilly said:


> I'm sure anavar has been shown to have some fat burning properties more directly than any other steroid Altho not a great effect.
> 
> I think I've read a study posted by pscarb if I remember rightly.
> 
> When I get on my laptop Wil have a dig around.


There are studies, mainly the Shroeder 2004 study, that showed a decrease in trunk mass by Dexia scan, using oxandralone. HOWEVER, read the article below, a review of studies by the AMA:

http://www.ama-marketing.at/home/user/6/Fleisch/Wissenschaftliches/06_10_2010/102010_4_The_Decline_of_Androgen_Levels_in_Elderly_Men_and_Its.pdf

particularly, look at page 853, where you will see a study by Liu in 2002 & 2003 had fat loss from 5000iu HCG 2x week for 3months.... similar effect to 20mg/day anavar.

Have read, well funny- i defy anyone here to get ripped on 5000iu Hcg 2x week for 3months...

But because of the shroeder study with old aged men taking 20mg/day anavar, everyone thinks its a fat burner...

hey be my guest...

there are far more studies that show greater effects with testosterone... which i will stick to... but girsl should take anavar..

as for what's a better steriod for size, between anavar(oxandrolone) and winstrol (stanozolol), read section 2.1.3:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2096617/

also note they say oxys are similar to anavar...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

little_horus said:


> I really would like to know where this Anavar/Winstrol fat burning myth comes from? To be fair, the original poster hasn't been the first to raise this topic. Both compounds defiantly have hardening properties, but this tends to be most prominent when the user already has a lean physic. Both compounds tend to have to be run at a fairly high dose too. I guess the boost in metabolism and the fact that you'd probably be pushing yourself harder during training *may *help to burn fat; although to treat them as a "fat burner" is complete spunkadoodle!
> 
> As mentioned above, the quickest/best way to drop body fat fast is to eat properly and hit the cardio like a motherfcuker day in day out. Consistency is key, but it will work. My current training buddy has lost over 40kg in the last 8 months by just running and diet alone, and I say fair play to the chap. He's now only just been introduced to lifting by myself. Hopefully I can help him tone up a bit. He chooses not to touch anything (whereas I do. Then again both our goals are different)





Green_hulk said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am a layman trainer who's used gear on & off for a few years. I've used winstrol before, usually after a bulk cycle of sus and my
> 
> ...


winstrol DOES NOT speed up your metabolism.. T3 does, ECA does, clen does... AAS do not..


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Like me iv learned the value of cardio sure i got huge when bulking but i did not do alot of cardio so i ended up having a massive belly, now im doing cardio in the end of each training session and i feel great, it speeds up my metabolism and that means im more hungry and i can eat more


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