# Paleolithic Diet for Bodybuidling



## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Have been reading up about this a lot lately on the internet and I have the the Paleo Diet book by Cordain, which arrived this morning!

My main reasons for trying this diet are:


It promotes the consumption of Lean organic/wild meat (I have become mostly vegetarian for animal welfare/health reasons)

It promotes the consumption of nuts/seeds

It promotes the consumption of high quantities of both fruit & vegetables

Therfore it promotes an alkali body balance (no osteoporosis!)

It is against the consumption of refined carbohydrate and wheat! ( I am intolerant to gluten anyway!! :thumbup1: )

I dont like the ommition of dairy, potatoes, rice and beans/legumes from the diet. (beans/legumes are concentrated starches and mostly poisonous unless cooked).


For the uninitiated, from Cordain:

With readily available modern foods, The Paleo Diet mimics the types of foods every single person on the planet ate prior to the Agricultural Revolution (a mere 500 generations ago). These foods (fresh fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and seafood) are high in the beneficial nutrients (soluble fiber, antioxidant vitamins, phytochemicals, omega-3 and monounsaturated fats, and low-glycemic carbohydrates) that promote good health and are low in the foods and nutrients (refined sugars and grains, saturated and trans fats, salt, high-glycemic carbohydrates, and processed foods) that frequently may cause weight gain, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and numerous other health problems. The Paleo Diet encourages dieters to replace dairy and grain products with fresh fruits and vegetables -- foods that are more nutritious than whole grains or dairy products.



Now I have got to the bottom of my fatigue issues and have eradicated them (by eradicating wheat!!) I feel fit enough to start training properly again and would like to formulate a new diet to go with my new programme.

Initially I am going to cut some fat, summers coming and I could do with losing a few (quite a few) unwanted lbs (kgs!).

As such I am aiming to eat a diet of roughly 2400 calories of Paleo friendly food, of roughly equal macros (33/33/33) then once I reach my BF% goal, I am going to up those calories gradually to 3500 or more as necessary to promote hypertrophy.

I was going to try conform to food combining rules as well, but have decided it way too complicates things and have decided just to eat fruit seperately from other foods.

Would like to hear from anyone who has tried the Paleo diet for dieting or bodybuilding?

A particular question I am having difficulty with is 'How do I reach my calorie goal without dense starchy carbs?', or 'Which foods do I substitute the dense carbs with to reach my calorie goal?'. So far I am thinking that I will up my good fats to compensate as I think too much protein has a negative impact on whole body health?

I aim to eat only organic/wild meat with a good serving of vegetables and an essential fat in each meal. Will start the day with fruit to keep it seperate from other food and prevent 'fermentation'.

A typical meal for meals 2-5 so far looks like this: (actually tastes great)

100g Organic Meat Pork/Beef/Salmon/Tuna

140g Kale/spinach/broccolli/cauliflower

350g Carrots/swede (remember GL is more accurate than GI here!) (*Need more options for this main carb!)*

1 tablespoon mixed omega oil (udo, Myp, H& B) or Olive oil

Seasoning (this isnt strictly allowed but is only a bit of sea salt & pepper)

Macros:

511 Cals (high as meal 1 is fruit only)

38% Fat 38% cho 24% Prot

or

22g fat 52g cho 30g prot

Fat breakdown is:

6% sat

30% Poly

9% mono

Paleo is said to be low in Calcium but one meal of mine contains 33% RDA of calcium.

Will also be supplementing anti-oxidants, fish oil, multi mins, ZMA.

Any thought on Paleo? Is it a fad? Have I got the right idea? anyone have any tips on implmenting it into BBing diet?

Hope you find it as interesting as I do!

SD


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Just to be clear:

Potatoes, Rice, Wheat products of any kind are not allowed on the Paleo diet (even if I werent intolerant to them), can anyone think of more carb options as good replacements? Carrot and swede will get old fast!!!

SD


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Carbs: green bananas, sweed, turnips any root beg really.

www.esnpro.co.uk Go here and look for alkaline ashing type diets, you will like


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

sweet potatoes are ok i think, quinoa too

grated pickled carrot/cabbage/horseraddish taste great and are quite filling. The only problem is i haven't figured out how to make it properly yet, if you've ever eaten in a Sphinx restaurant in poland you'll know what i mean..

you can also use grated cauliflower as a rice substitute

i try and loosely follow paleo style eating, though it is quite hard and can be expensive

i think the theory behind legumes is that basically anything you can't eat raw isn't paleo. Though there's conflicting evidence now relating to how long humans have been cooking and the impact it's played in our evolution and brain development.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

i did a similar one when working with phil hernon before xmas for 4 months.

basically each meal was only lean meat such as fish/chicken/eggs/egg whites no red meat. carbs were just green veg and fruit. fats were just evoo/walnut oil.

each meal was 40p/40c/17f eat when hungry only.

after a few days i felt pretty healthy and to be honest the diet was enjoyable fruit was eaten at every meal wether morning or night. however when i came off and switched back to normal foods my stomach sufferd bad for a month.

I noticed nothing special from sticking with these foods bar a lack of slight stomach bloat i get from eating oats sometimes but its nothing seriouse. i strugled to gain mass this way.


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

MXD said:


> Carbs: green bananas, sweed, turnips any root beg really.
> 
> www.esnpro.co.uk Go here and look for alkaline ashing type diets, you will like


plantains might be a better option over bananas, they usually need to be ripened though (until they turn black), before cooking them.


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## Lil D (Apr 6, 2009)

I think 100% correct paleo style eating will never really gel correctly with bodybuilding with regards the bulking phase. But there is no harm in trying to be strictly paleo with adding in carbs. Sweet potato, squash, swede, yhou know yourself. Another source you could check out is marksdailyapple.com who is similar to Cordain but the two differ slightly.

Mark sees saturated fat as a necessary fat and it shouldn't be feared and sees poly unsaturated fats as worrying when used in cook sources due to them becoming oxidised. ( Just check out the website lots of articles).

I'm dieting in a primal/paleo style myself, with about 50% of my diet coming from fats and about perhaps 30-40% being protein, with 10-20% (depending on the day being from fruits and vegetables) And it seems to be working quite well. Especially since there is a huge sense of satiety.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Interesting thread 

If you are interested in studies on such things there are two here that discuss aspects of what a paleo/HG diet might have been:

Estimation of the net acid load of the diet of ancestral preagricultural **** sapiens and their hominid ancestors

Documenting the diet in ancient human populations through stable isotope analysis of hair

....

I think the switch to non gluten energy providing carbs is a very positive one. Root veg is good, although ironically the one we rely on the most (potatoes) is almost certainly the least healthy as it's on the higher GI end of root veg and on the low end of nutrients. Swedes, Turnips, Parsnips, Sweet Pots, African Yams, Carrots...all better. Mixing them together in a mixed root veg roast is really nice, as is mash made with a few different types.

For other non grain carbs Buckwheat, Quinoa, and a small amount of Wild or Brown Rice to my mind fit the nutritional profile of a paleo or hunter gatherer diet as applied to someone who trains. Also think it's vital to get a broad range of non starchy leafy or watery veg and fruit for the wide range in phytonutrients this gives and alkalising minerals. Nuts are good too, a big part of paleo/HG eating.

Ditching the non-organicly fed and reared meat is probably the healthiest move of all for a meat eater... improves the balance of fatty acids no end and reduces the net acid load of the meat. As for how this relates to someone bodybuilding it can only help in providing higher levels of quality protein and fatty acids that aid fat metabolism rather than hinder it. At very worst it can do nothing that's detrimental (other than cost more money!).

The 33/33/33 split I like very much and is kind of what I aim for - I go 30/30/30 with a 10% that I allow to vary. I don't really call myself a bodybuilder, but do train hard for a variety of fitness goals and include a bodybuilding element, and switching to this kind of diet has made a significant positive difference to how I feel and how I perform. It may be that it's not totally suitable when going for all out muscular size, but it's certainly better than a standard western diet IMO.

The positive effects of eating this way are most noticable when I don't - when I go through periods when for whatever reason i don't eat this way and go back to a more typical modern western style diet, am noticably more tired and less stable in mood. I have so far reduced gluten but not kicked it out completely - this is the next thing I want to try. Not really done the food combining thing either, but can see sense in the thinking.


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## strange_days (Aug 6, 2009)

Really interesting thread this, great post by Dtlv74 also


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

my intention after i finish dieting is to stick to these food groups but move the macros a little. for instance i will have more carbs and less fats around workouts and on workout days then on non training days i will have more fats and less carbs.

so workout days will be pro/carb and a little fat at breaky/and the 3/4 hour window around training. other times will be just protein and fats and the same on non training days im thinking but sticking to the foods choices outlined above. altho i may keep oats in as there cheap and easy and cooking qunoi takes time


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## dixie normus (May 11, 2008)

paleo man loved his grains too


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Glad you guys are finding the thread interesting, thankyou for your thoughtful replies.

Havent had time to read them all yet but just quickly will comment on a few:



MXD said:


> Carbs: green bananas, sweed, turnips any root beg really.
> 
> www.esnpro.co.uk Go here and look for alkaline ashing type diets, you will like


Thankyou for those, pretty much what I am eating right now with the addition of carrot. Still think I need more options here.

Will check out the link now!



gerg said:


> *sweet potatoes are ok i think, quinoa too*
> 
> grated pickled carrot/cabbage/horseraddish taste great and are quite filling. The only problem is i haven't figured out how to make it properly yet, if you've ever eaten in a Sphinx restaurant in poland you'll know what i mean..
> 
> ...


Cordain doesn't allow sweet potato or Quinoa :crying: unfortunately, hence why this is almost impossible to follow while being veggy.

Great idea about the grated Cauli, I have done exactly that this afternoon and it really worked thankyou!

Your right on the theory behind Paleo, potato's contain oxalates whcih are anti-nutrients, they wont kill you but arent recommended raw for example.



gerg said:


> plantains might be a better option over bananas, they usually need to be ripened though (until they turn black), before cooking them.


Hmm Plantain, my old Nigerian housemate cooked with this, good idea! Will have to look at recipes which use it.

Going to check out the link and Dt's post now!!

Thanks all


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

dixie normus said:


> paleo man loved his grains too


Thats a dead link fella, could you summarise for us?

SD


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## dixie normus (May 11, 2008)

dixie normus said:


> paleo man loved his grains too


fixed it!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

dixie normus said:


> fixed it!


Have seen that before (possibly from you on the other forum  ), and I think they've found similar evidence of tools used to mill grain seeds in Asia from a similar time period too also.

I don't buy that grains in themselves are bad, but certainly think that they can be in the modern diet when over processed and separated from their vitamins and nutrients and then significantly over used as a staple food.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Okay, have been on the Paleo diet a couple of weeks now and its going very well!

I have lost 1kg of BF, which isnt a huge amount but I have been playing with portions to get my clas right, some days I ate 3500cals so was way over my target but I am starting to get it closer to my 2400 cal target.

Recording everything on Fitday, its nice to see that most of my Micro nutrients are above the levels I set for them. This is with little supplementation. I was low on Calcium so introduced a 600mg tablet on low days and was low on vit E so I added Almonds and fixed that. Over the course of a week, all my Micros and Macros are spot on, my cals average 2800, quite a bit higher than planned lol hence the slowish progress.

I feel great, very energised and strong, I am not constipated at all despite the complete removal of wholegrains from my diet and it being a high protein diet. The fibrous veg/psyllium and flax seed will be helping this.

A typical non-training day would be:

Meal 1: Morning Smoothie

Blueberries, Banana, Fruit Juice, Water, Psyllium, Flax Seed, Alfalfa Powder.

Meal 2: Paleo Snack

Dried Fruit, Unsalted Nuts, Beef Jerky

Meal 3: Lunch

250g meat (any), 350g Veg, 1 tbsp Oil, Seasoning.

Meal 4 Paleo Snack

Dried Fruit, Unsalted Nuts, Protein Shake with water.

Meal 5 Dinner

Same as Meal 3

THis gives a nice 33/33/33 macro split, sometimes leaning towards fat but no macro deviating by more than 10%.

I know there is no obvious protein in MEal 1, I dont believe in excess protein if not necessary and this meal actually contains 12g of Protein! (Mainly Flax).

THe Shake is not Paleo friendly, but for the sake of cost, slipping a shake in instead of Jerky once per day keeps costs down.

On a training day, Meal 4 is replaced by my pre and post workout preparations so:

Pre: 1 scoop ProGF with water and fruit juice

Post: 30g Hydrolyzed WHey, 50g WMS, 2 tsp Fructose, 1tsp Vit C Powder.

THe first week, my blood sugar was crashing big time after lunch and I could barely keep my eyes open. THe addition of dried fruit and some adaptation to the diet has helped alleviate that.

SD


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

interesting, any reason why dired fruit over fresh fruit?? for hunger sake you would get more actual food using fresh fruit surely than dried fruit.

I no when i did this dried fruit liked half the size of my meal making me very hungry. took 2 weeks for my sugars to adjustnormally etc. have u tried adding in some walnut and coconut oil or do these not come into it?


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

hilly said:


> interesting, any reason why dired fruit over fresh fruit?? for hunger sake you would get more actual food using fresh fruit surely than dried fruit.
> 
> I no when i did this dried fruit liked half the size of my meal making me very hungry. took 2 weeks for my sugars to adjustnormally etc. have u tried adding in some walnut and coconut oil or do these not come into it?


Using dried fruit for portability and because it has only lost its water content, its not a bulky meal either. I get enough water from water lol.

You have to balance the fruit with the nuts and protein so you dont get hungry, take with plenty of fluids too. From your blood sugars, maybe you overdid the fruit? I am having 40g per sitting at most.

SD


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## Venividivic (May 15, 2010)

Not sure if this is any help at all, but i know that Ray Mears, published a book on the diets of our UK ancestors. HERE It is an interesting read, although it is not full of nutritional facts or figures, it is still historically and accurate as possible I think.

He also did a show on this too, with several episodes for the BBC.. check out youtube.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Venividivic said:


> Not sure if this is any help at all, but i know that Ray Mears, published a book on the diets of our UK ancestors. HERE It is an interesting read, although it is not full of nutritional facts or figures, it is still historically and accurate as possible I think.
> 
> He also did a show on this too, with several episodes for the BBC.. check out youtube.


Yes I watched episodes from that series! He was accompanied by that geeky chap with a lisp and sandals! Good series, it identified the wild foods that people would have lived on before industrialisation.

Fortunately I am not that paleo, some pople can be proper anal about it, wearing paleo correct footwear and doing paleo only exercises lolz


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## Venividivic (May 15, 2010)

What was interesting to me was, although simple the diet was at that time, how much better quality the food was.

Where do you find the best place to purchase organic meats and what is your take on the use of venison within this diet structure?


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Venividivic said:


> What was interesting to me was, although simple the diet was at that time, how much better quality the food was.
> 
> Where do you find the best place to purchase organic meats and what is your take on the use of venison within this diet structure?


Personnally I am just getting organic and wild meat from tescos, its reasonably priced and the organic ground beef is even on offer right now.

Game is highly recommended as a protein source, even venison can be farmed, though it is free range, so preferably wild or organic but a definite thumbs up on that :thumbup1:

Found this interesting:

THe top 8 allergenic foods account for 90% of the known food allergy cases! Marked in *bold* are the food items disallowed on the Paleo diet.

Top 8 Allergenic Foods



*Milk *

Egg

*Peanut*

Tree nut (walnut, *cashew*, etc.)

Fish

Shellfish

*Soy*

*Wheat *

Makes you wonder, as the introduction of these foods into our diet is only a recent thing in terms of our evolutionary history. Milk has been drunk for millenia but pastuerization has only been present since 1886 only 124 years!

SD
​


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

I avoid all of those bar eggs to be honest. I do follow alot of this style eating and find it does help ure stomach and overall health once you make the right changes.

I am wheat/gluten sensitive as oats do bloat me. not terribly but they do a little. bread just makes me hold water which is a shame because i love it. However i have been eating the sprouted grain bread and it gives no issues. Im going to order the sprouted flour and start baking my own as this will work out cheaper.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

hilly said:


> I avoid all of those bar eggs to be honest. I do follow alot of this style eating and find it does help ure stomach and overall health once you make the right changes.
> 
> I am wheat/gluten sensitive as oats do bloat me. not terribly but they do a little. bread just makes me hold water which is a shame because i love it. However i have been eating the *sprouted grain bread* and it gives no issues. Im going to order the sprouted flour and start baking my own as this will work out cheaper.


Is that Ezekiel bread Hilly?

SD


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

very similar health shop near me does sprouted spelt bread which is basically the same thing. comes in a sealed pack ready to eat. i cnt get ezekial bread like that anywere just the flour. am considering baking it but this sprouted spelt is just the same thing .

made by sunnyvale


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## gb666 (Mar 14, 2006)

Some people find making and eating sour dough bread better for them, it is the bakers yeast that they are allergic to not just the wheat flour.


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Not got time to read whole thread and reply to everyone just now as gotta take father to glasgow airport or I aint managing to punt him back to Oz for another year 

HOWEVER..... from quick skim of OP this looks VERY interesting.... I have suffered from IBS my whole life but its got worse since adopted BB'ing diet.

Subscribing now to come back and read properly..... SD.... very interested in anything you have on this as OP and the first page which I skimmed through made me think its very relevant.

I've been supplementing like hell recently with dietry fibre, prebiotics, probiotics, digestive enzymes, prescription stuff (which u can get OTC) like colpermin, buscopan etc, POM stuff like bucastem....

Always had probs. Probs got BAD when started this sport.

Essentially its not all good.

Thing is I've notice on here journals, general, diet forums, supps forums, PED forums, and on facebook ( ie pretty much all over..... ) LOADS AND LOADS of people are complaining really bad about digestive/dietry problems.

Their sympoms are usually similar to mine.... and like me.. their symtoms started when they either started training/eating serously or started competing 1st prep).

I dnt believe that this is coincidence.... can't be really surely???

Often outside of here I've spoken to ppl about feeding their dogs and said "do wild dogs eat cereals???? is this natural??? why are you feeding wilsons or whatever with cereal in it....????"

So I've often also thought about what WE are designed to eat naturally......

I do know I have digestive probs and have for yrs.... I know dozens of other bb'ers who also do..... am coming back to read and study this in some depth if the info is gonna be here and SD if you dont mind I'd like to pick your mind about certain aspects of it???

Zx


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Ahhh reverse...

Posted, checked time, more left than I thought, read thread properly..... not so keen as I first thought


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## Ninja (Apr 28, 2010)

SD said:


> Using dried fruit for portability and because it has only lost its water content, its not a bulky meal either. I get enough water from water lol.
> 
> You have to balance the fruit with the nuts and protein so you dont get hungry, take with plenty of fluids too. From your blood sugars, maybe you overdid the fruit? I am having 40g per sitting at most.
> 
> SD


Just thought it my be interesting.

Some research has shown dried blueberries to be as much as four times higher in antioxidants than their fresh counterparts. However, because most drying processes cause significant loss of nutrients and concentrate sugar and calories, fresh fruit is a better bet in terms of nutrition. Here's why:


Pretreatments in the drying process, such as the addition of sulfur dioxide, help protect some nutrients while degrading others. Sulfur dioxide preserves vitamins A and C but destroys thiamine. (Vitamin A is essential for normal growth and also helps regulate metabolism, and vitamin C is important for growth and repair of body tissue. Thiamin [vitamin B1] helps the body convert carbohydrates into energy.)

Often, fruits or vegetables are briefly boiled or steamed before drying to speed up the drying process and kill disease-causing microorganisms. This blanching helps to preserve carotene and thiamine but causes the loss of ascorbic acid (vitamin C). (Carotene is a precursor to vitamin A, the importance of which is described above.)

Exposure to light and oxygen can further degrade nutrients.

High heat drying may reduce the Protein Efficiency Ratio, a measure of the quality of proteins in food, making it more difficult for the body to use the protein in the fruit.


On the up side, besides antioxidants, dried fruit has a few other benefits. It's high in fiber, so it may help relieve constipation, lower blood cholesterol, and control diabetes. It's also a healthier alternative to other sugary snacks and a good source of quick energy for athletes or others who burn lots of calories. Many dried fruits are also high in iron, potassium, and selenium - all important nutrients for maintaining healthy blood and muscles. They're especially helpful to people who suffer from anemia, so you might consider a daily handful of raisins if anemia is a concern for you.

Ninja


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## Robbyg (Feb 25, 2008)

How much fruit do you have per morning and snacks ? been looking at this diet for a while now seem to be working for you.Have you lost much stenght ?


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Robbyg said:


> How much fruit do you have per morning and snacks ? been looking at this diet for a while now seem to be working for you.Have you lost much stenght ?


I dont do this at present as it was waaaay too expensive when bulking!

For snacks I had 40g of dried mixed fruit, for the morning smoothie it was a banana and a handful of Bluberries :thumb:

Worked well for me as I have a sensetive stomach and didnt lose any strength at all.

SD


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

Bumpage of an old thread, anyone follow this style of diet currently?


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

Rekless said:


> Bumpage of an old thread, anyone follow this style of diet currently?


Yes.. only started very recently though.

My primary goal is losing fat as I've gotten a little chunky around the middle over the last 2 years.. :whistling:

A typical day now looks like this for me:

*AM*

Maximuscle Thermobol

30 mins cardio and/or kettlebell workout

Whole egg omelette with spring onion, ham, tomatoes, mushroom, spinach & fresh thyme/basil

Half a pink grapefruit

x2 EPA/DHA

*
LUNCH*

Maximuscle Thermobol

Tuna mayo or chicken + large mixed salad with beetroot, avocado, mixed seeds, oil & balsamic

x2 EPA/DHA

*
AFTERNOON*

Snack on beef jerky and nuts

Greens+ Berry drink

Half a pink grapefruit

x2 EPA/DHA

*
EVENING*

Steak/Chicken, mixed roast peppers, courgette, mushroom, leeks etc.

x2 glasses red wine.

+ Several glasses of ice water throughout the day

If I'm hungry later maybe also a protein shake before bed.. currently BSN Choc Coconut Lean Dessert.

L


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## will-uk (Apr 12, 2010)

Lorian said:


> Yes.. only started very recently though.
> 
> My primary goal is losing fat as I've gotten a little chunky around the middle over the last 2 years.. :whistling:
> 
> ...


That looks quite a nice diet to follow if im honest, looks nicer than the keto i tried, is it just as good


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Does this lay down the basics fairly?


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

I'm on the same diet as Lorian, except for the shakes and wine, and although for the first few days I was craving carbs, I'm fine now. Lots more energy physically and mentally and brilliant sleep. I'm on it primarily to sort my tummy out...like Zara I've had IBS for AGES! Over a decade and haven't found anything to work. When I tried the diet for 2 weeks last month it dawned on me that my tummy was much better! So I'm really going for it now to see if it makes a differene to both tummy and weight loss.

I've got to be honest, on the diet I am loving the food!! Our fridge is stuffed full of lovely meat and veg!  I really have no desire to stodge up on carbs.

One extra thing that I'm avoiding is tannins - so no coffee, tea, wine or chocolate at the moment...this is purely to test if I have an allergy to tannins, so not paleo related.


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

will-uk said:


> That looks quite a nice diet to follow if im honest, looks nicer than the keto i tried, is it just as good


Well there's very little carbs.. the grapefruit and wine could potentialy dropped as well but I like them and I'm not fanatical enough to worry about it.

As for its effectiveness... I'll be doing a journal in a few weeks time once I've given it a fair run and got some stats logged.

L


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

Greenspin said:


> Does this lay down the basics fairly?


That's pretty much spot on as I understand it.

L


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

It's important to note that Paleo doesn't necessarily equate to low carb. Strachy stuff like Rice, Sweet Pots and Fruit are all good to go on the paleo diet depending on which source you listen to.


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

Katy said:


> I'm on the same diet as Lorian, except for the shakes and wine, and although for the first few days I was craving carbs, I'm fine now. Lots more energy physically and mentally and brilliant sleep. I'm on it primarily to sort my tummy out...like Zara I've had IBS for AGES! Over a decade and haven't found anything to work. When I tried the diet for 2 weeks last month it dawned on me that my tummy was much better! So I'm really going for it now to see if it makes a differene to both tummy and weight loss.
> 
> I've got to be honest, on the diet I am loving the food!! Our fridge is stuffed full of lovely meat and veg!  I really have no desire to stodge up on carbs.
> 
> One extra thing that I'm avoiding is tannins - so no coffee, tea, wine or chocolate at the moment...this is purely to test if I have an allergy to tannins, so not paleo related.


Great you're having such good results on the Paleo intervention.

Tannins is very unlikely to be IBS related, more likely to be another food you've cut down on (e.g. Wheat, dairy), overall fibre intake (possibly soluble) and/or caffeine consumption, which are all more closely linked to IBS than tannins.

Hard to say without a full diet analysis and medical history but look out for my article I'm writing on bowel complaints and dietary mediators at predator nutrition (I'll post the link on the forums) for some more ideas.

Hope it all goes well!


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

UKStrength said:


> Great you're having such good results on the Paleo intervention.
> 
> Tannins is very unlikely to be IBS related, more likely to be another food you've cut down on (e.g. Wheat, dairy), overall fibre intake (possibly soluble) and/or caffeine consumption, which are all more closely linked to IBS than tannins.
> 
> ...


Mmm, well over the past decade I've tried all sorts, including staying on the most basic diet without known allergens and things like sorbitol and caffeine for 3 months and then gradually adding things...trouble is, even on the initial diet I was still ill. I've tried excluding all sorts with no relief. Tannins have been known to cause an allergic reaction such as a runny nose, upset tummy, congestion...all of which I get. Although, since cutting tannins, the congestion has gone.

To be honest, I don't care what specifically causes the problem, as long as what I'm doing works, I'll stick with it.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Can anyone suggest a good book/author on this diet. I know I could go and buy any old book. But if from peoples experience there is one that stands out, id like to know. Thanks

GS


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

(cough)


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Greenspin said:


> Can anyone suggest a good book/author on this diet. I know I could go and buy any old book. But if from peoples experience there is one that stands out, id like to know. Thanks
> 
> GS


I'm in the middle of reading 'the Paleo Solution' by Robb Wolf. I'd certainly recommend it, especially because he explains the microbiology. But I don't recommend the recipes/meal suggestions in the back...there are far tastier and exciting things than he suggests.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Katy said:


> I'm in the middle of reading 'the Paleo Solution' by Robb Wolf. I'd certainly recommend it, especially because he explains the microbiology. But I don't recommend the recipes/meal suggestions in the back...there are far tastier and exciting things than he suggests.


Cool, thanks. I am only interested in the concept behind it from one initial source as to not get conflicting (thus, potentially confusing :smartass: ) veiws, plus I like to think (rather I know) I can make good food of my own accord, so probably wouldn't even look at the suggested meals


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Greenspin said:


> Can anyone suggest a good book/author on this diet. I know I could go and buy any old book. But if from peoples experience there is one that stands out, id like to know. Thanks
> 
> GS


I've got a book

Paleolithic diet for athletes

Great read lots of background information and guides on nutrition and what it's involving. Would definitely recommend it.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Greenspin said:


> Can anyone suggest a good book/author on this diet. I know I could go and buy any old book. But if from peoples experience there is one that stands out, id like to know. Thanks
> 
> GS


Not a book, but this site is probably the best one-stop site online for links to lots of paleo information - http://paleodiet.com/ . Loads in there to keep you busy


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Dtlv74 said:


> Not a book, but this site is probably the best one-stop site online for links to lots of paleo information - http://paleodiet.com/ . Loads in there to keep you busy


Nice one, thanks!


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

bayman said:


> It's important to note that Paleo doesn't necessarily equate to low carb. Strachy stuff like Rice, Sweet Pots and Fruit are all good to go on the paleo diet depending on which source you listen to.


I was wondering about this, as I have read in a lot of the 'set' paleolithic diet info, that sweet potatoes and such are a no, no? I get the concept, and so am not to bothered about the specific things that certain sources forebode. I can't say wether our ancestors ate sweet potato, as I don't know if this is an 'evolved' version of an accent veg. (I am just using this as an example, as I know I can find out if sweet pots. are something that would have been 'about' in the given timeframe) But I have also seen Yams on the 'no' list? I can see the sense in the diet, and I think it is what I was trying to achieve in some ways anyway, but I was thinking more in the context of not eating sh!t and 'non commodity stye' foods, as apposed to not eating the foods that we would not have done in our time of logger more consistent genetic 'adjustments' shall we say, pre 10000 years ago, and looking to see what foods that are considered whole foods, organic and natural ect as foods that are still the result of human intervention. This post may soon be a distant and irrelative thought and set of rhetorical questions, as I know have an addition to the things I want to know and master, but for know the musing is out their? <---Question marked to symbolize the questionability of life


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## AdvancedAthlete (Apr 19, 2011)

OJay said:


> I've got a book
> 
> Paleolithic diet for athletes
> 
> Great read lots of background information and guides on nutrition and what it's involving. Would definitely recommend it.


Also have this book and highly recommend it. well written too.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

AdvancedAthlete said:


> Also have this book and highly recommend it. well written too.


Not too sure about that, it's highly contradicted if you ask me.

Cordain advises the avoidance of grains etc, yet recommends sports drinks, it has recommendations for low fat meats, even though wild game carries a fair amount of fat (butcher some game yourself if you don't believe me on this).

And that's the trouble with the paleo diet gurus, no one truely knows what we ate back then, it's all educated guess work, at best, at worst it's bordering on neurosis - Sweet Potatoes good, white potatoes baaad, yet check their individual nutritional content and see there's hardly any difference...

If you look at modern day hunter gatherers that are unaffected by technology their diets vary massively depending on season and where they are in the world - The Inuit (eskimos) are pretty much high fat, zero carb, Native Australians use yams and other roots, wild honey etc, tribes in the amazon pulp trees to make flours etc etc, the list goes on.

I think if you subscribe to the following: Get your nutrition from Meat, Fish and Dairy, and copious fruit and Veg (Organic etc where funds allows) then you can't go far wrong. A little refined stuff here and there isn't going to kill you, just don't go basing your whole diet around it. The rest is just arguing over semantics if you ask me.


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## Hera (May 6, 2011)

bayman said:


> It's important to note that Paleo doesn't necessarily equate to low carb. Strachy stuff like Rice, Sweet Pots and Fruit are all good to go on the paleo diet depending on which source you listen to.


Yeah it does depend on the approach a person chooses. I've never heard of fruit being off the diet anyway and although I don't eat any grains or starchy foods I do still get my carbs from fruit and veg.

I think that the priniciple behind the no grains and rice etc is to retrain the body to get most of its energy from protein and fat and avoid foods that evolutionarily aren't supposed to be eaten by humans. A really good example in the book that I'm reading is that blueberries for example are designed to be eaten in order for their seeds to be spread via the animals extretion. Grass on the other hand isn't...if an animal eats a grain it destroys the grains ability to germenate. Apparently grains to a degree have a defence by causing inflamation in the gut and various other things. The book basically likens grains to poisen ivy - the plant does not 'want' to be eaten and so is designed to not be appetising. That's my understanding of things anyway


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

bayman said:


> Not too sure about that, it's highly contradicted if you ask me.
> 
> Cordain advises the avoidance of grains etc, yet recommends sports drinks, it has recommendations for low fat meats, even though wild game carries a fair amount of fat (butcher some game yourself if you don't believe me on this).
> 
> ...


This was another thought I had, but put it down to the 'differences' or 'similarities' of that time. It seems rational that grains and the like be less ideal overall for human consumption. But it does not makes sense to me that yams ect are not a great source of nutrition and suited to our bodies capability to digest ect without relative problem. I won't be cutting all these thing out of my diet as of the minute, but I don't eat to much of it all anyway.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

I've done a lot of reading on the subject, and the concenus seems to be avoid wheat and gluten, non-gluten grains and rice are "ok." Gluten is the main aggrivator in most food reactions, and the damage it does to the gut seems to preceed other intollerances like dairy for example.

Another board I post on had a few guys who couldn't handle protein shakes / supplements, as soon as they removed gluten from their diet after a few months they found they could. Anecdotal evidence, but tallies with what the science says nevertheless. That said, I personally don't religiously avoid gluten containing things, as they don't seem to generate any reaction for me anyway, just don't make them a staple - the old 80/20 rule...


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

bayman said:


> I've done a lot of reading on the subject, and the concenus seems to be avoid wheat and gluten, non-gluten grains and rice are "ok." Gluten is the main aggrivator in most food reactions, and the damage it does to the gut seems to preceed other intollerances like dairy for example.
> 
> Another board I post on had a few guys who couldn't handle protein shakes / supplements, as soon as they removed gluten from their diet after a few months they found they could. Anecdotal evidence, but tallies with what the science says nevertheless. That said, I personally don't religiously avoid gluten containing things, as they don't seem to generate any reaction for me anyway, just don't make them a staple - the old 80/20 rule...


Yeah that's a good point on gluten. Many people don't have a full allergy to it but still have an intolerance to it, and experience subtle issues related to it that they might not realise are connected... IBS, skin issues, apparent reactions to other foods etc.

Although many grasses and cerals contain the protein, it's mostly wheat that's the main culprit, and from what I understand wheat is not believed to have been a staple in paleolithic human diets.


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## Maturemuscle (Oct 30, 2010)

This is a great thread with some very interesting points and discussions. I have been following a diet which I realise now is close to the Paleo diet. I had to give up wheat because of serious allergic reactions to it (including a nasty episode of anaphalactic shock...) then a few months later realised I was starting to react to other grains as well. Following a visit to the endocrinologist I discovered I have a benign tumour on my thyroid, probably brought on by Hashimotos disease (an auto immune reaction often triggered by allergies or linked to them). The endo asked me to stop all grains in my diet to see if it would help the thyroid function and put me on medication to try to shrink the tumour, otherwise I have to have surgery.

Not eating any grains stopped my allergies dead and I have not had one allergic attack in six weeks, a major breakthrough for me when I seemed to be getting them daily at one point. I do not have a problem with dairy but have cut it down and now use mostly goat and sheep yogurt and cheese. I have kept fruit in my diet and veggies but have cut right down on starches like potato and have cut out rice. I feel amazing! When I had the wheat allergy I had to take enzymes every day to try to control the stomach issues....... now I do not need them and have no problems with digestion or bloating at all.

I stick to organic/grass fed local meats and use local olive oil. Almost all the fruit and veg I eat is locally produced.

Thanks for the links to the websites and books, I am going to check them out later to see if there is anything else I can change!


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Robb Wolf is a great resource on this topic for anyone who's interested, especially the application of such a diet to people who train.


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