# chins twice a week



## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

hey guys, i did chin ups on tuesday, with my back workout,

and tomorrow i am doing legs, but i want to get stronger on chins and i was told if you do them twice a week you get stronger, i did traps today and my concerns are,

will i be working my back too much if i do some chins tomorrow?

and will i be not giving my traps enough rest if i do chins tomrorow?

thanks guys just not sure and thought those guys will gimmie advice

thanks


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

will i be working my back too much if i do some chins tomorrow?= Yes

If you are looking for strength then do each musclegroup one time a week. The idea is to do some overlapping but not if it affects your primary routine for any major muscle group.

I will give you an example. Lets say that you hit chest on Monday. On Thursday you can do triceps like this: Dips and lets say close grip bench. So on Monday the following week you will have almost 4 days of recouperation for doing chest again. Close grip bench hits triceps hard and some chest. Dips hit triceps hard and some chest. Bench hits chest hard and less on the triceps. Inclines hit upper chest hard and less triceps. So when you hit chest some triecps get hit and even shoulders (front). When you hit triceps (depends on the lift) you can hit some chest. If you got a bad chest workout on Monday then by all means do dips and close grip. If your chest is still sore on Thursday then do more isolating exercises for the tricpes. Skull crushers, pushdown, standing french curls would be great.


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by hackskii
> 
> *will i be working my back too much if i do some chins tomorrow?= Yes*
> 
> ...


Ive heard contradicting stories about this. A lot of people I speak to say you only should exercise one muscle group per week, and it needs a full week to recover. And, if you are doing the bench heavy enough, your shoulders & triceps will be very much hit also, so if you do any other tricep excercise afterwards it might be too much. Certainly, doing shoulders/triceps a few days afterwards means you are hitting them twice a week, which is too much.

I personally do a few sets of shoulder exercises on my chest day, as the shoulder muscles already have taken a good pounding from the benches, but dont tend to hit my triceps with their own exercises as they are usually aching for several days anyway after my chest day.

On the other hand. Some people reckon you should hit your weaker muscles twice a week to make them grow quicker. Which is the complete opposite of the first theory!


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## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

moved


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Trail and error. I have a pretty big tricep and dont hammer it too much by itself. It gets massivly pumped when I bench. I superset bi's and tri's by them selves.

But my workout is diffrent than most. I hit one musclegroup each day. Chest by itself and so on. If I do bench, inclines and then try and do military press the shoulders are gone and I just cant put the energy into the shoulders being pre-fitigued.

Heavy lifting hits the central nervous system and the CNS takes 5 days to recouperate. The muscles dont take that long to recouperate. The only excpetion I can see to this is lets say you never did Legs before and Pounded 5-6 sets for squats. Well good luck walking for a good number of days. It should not take more than 5 days for the muscle to recoup unless there was some serious hammering on that muscle.

CNS heavy training 5 days recoup. Heavy lifting for long periods of time can make you sick and give you chronic fetigue. Lifting to get a pump once and a while is ok.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Robin you are on the gear right now. Go a head and do the chinups twice a week. Just dont do as many sets. Space them out so you can recoup. As for the traps, chinups dont really hit those much, if any.  If you feel like doing more then do it. If you are sore for 5 days then your body is telling you you need more recoperation. Train hard, eat good, and get lots of sleep and you will recoup just fine. One other thing. If you are making gains then you are doing something right. If you stop making gains then you are overtraining or not getting enough sleep.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

It is quite interesting to hear the different theories on recuperation. Most of it seems to go out of the window when you take roids as your recovery is significantly sped up. For natural lifters, once a week is probably the best advice. At the moment I train everything three times every two weeks but I only do about 3 working sets per muscle. My strength has rocketed whilst doing this - my bench is almost back to where it was before I injured myself.

There are theories that you can train too infrequently to make progress (i.e. leave too long between workouts). There's a chart I'll have to try and find, but basically there are three stages of recuperation -

Undercompensation - you train to soon after your last workout for that muscle and it is not fully recovered. This leads to muscle tissue breakdown and CNS fatigue.

Overcompensation - you've waited too long between workouts, and although recovered, your muscle has gone a little too long without stimulus for optimum growth and strength.

Supercompensation - you've timed your recuperation just right. The muscle is fully recovered and ready to lift more than in the previous session. The opportunity for growth is maximised.

It comes down once again to the individual, and you have to do a bit of trial and error to find how often works best for you. It also depends on how much volume you do. If I'm doing high volume I would never train a single bodypart more than once a week, but on my current high intensity low volume routine I can easily train a bodypart twice a week.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I agree totally. I do some overlapping myself. Emphasis on some. Not allot. My chest gets hit one day and 4 days later it gets touched. If you are getting stronger naturally then you are doing something right.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

thanks alot guys

did benching today went up a couple more reps am loving it

put on a bit of weight, is it usual to get a stomach bloat?

i am up about 3/4 of a stone at the mo, 2 and a half weeks gone!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

You are eating more and also maybe retaining some water. Just back off on the salt, you will be ok. Bloating usually comes from the carbs. Drink more water too.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

those sound like pretty impressive gains mate


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bloat can be from d-bol.

Robin 5 sets of 5 while you are on the sauce.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

is this the best way you think, thanks you guys, i am starting to feel good about gaining weight, the size is what i want, i can cut later and thats what i have figured, i should be proud of what i do and not worry about my belly, if i look big that is what i am looking for

thanks again guys,

winger thanks for always being there, hackskii too,

silentbob has sold me some good protein mrpm 40g protein 100g carbs each serving


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Just take a whey when you go to bed. That way you wont go catabolic when you sleep. The protein with the carbs at night in your sleep isn't as good as just a protein. I like the ratio though. If you dont have that then eat some turkey or fish or eggs to hold you over. They are harder to break down and will give you a longer trickle of protein through out your sleep.


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

winger you know the 5x5 is it for every excersise you do or just the big movements like bench and squat etc.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

5x5 - BRILLIANT!!!

Tried it out this morning on my bench (usually 10, 8, 6, 4) and my last set was a full 5 x 100kg, usually i can only manage 90kg on my last set for about 2.

I went 5x60, 5x70, 5x80, 5x90, 5x100, couldn't believe how much easier the lifts were - 120kg here i come!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I would keep the 5X5 for the big groups but you can use them for the smaller groups too. I would especially while on the gear. That is more strength training and not really body building. I also would not do this all the time but vary all reps sets and exercises. Keeps the body guessing. Also if you are not getting any stronger in the 5X5s then switch up.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by robdog
> 
> *winger you know the 5x5 is it for every excersise you do or just the big movements like bench and squat etc. *


Well if you do 3 different excercises per body part then that would be 15 sets per muscle group. I would use it on the big group muscles and do 3 sets on the smaller ones. I like to stick between 8-10 reps. But like hackskii said you need to keep the body guessing so a change does a body good.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

There was a discussion on 5x5 training not that long ago. It is excellent for the three power lifts - bench, squat and deadlift. I wouldnt do it for any other lifts though. For gaining strength, there's very few training methods that can compare.


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## BSF James (Sep 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by powerU
> 
> *5x5 - BRILLIANT!!!*
> 
> ...


If you stick to that routine for bench, you can hit your target very quickly. It's amazing how quickly the weights come up doing bench in this way, especially if you have a good rest between sets.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2004)

hmm...I have this 5x5 thing a go, I've never actually tried it, I don't think


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It works good for strength. I dont think my shoulder will let me do that at the moment.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by Insanity
> 
> * I don't think *


Ya think


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2004)

I'll call the police


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## OnePack (Jan 9, 2004)

do u use dumdbells for squats?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Just stick to the basics. If you copy what the power lifters do then you are on the right track. Why are they so big and so strong. Basic movements that incorporate allot of muscles. It also stimulates testosterone levels and natural hgh. Compound movements.


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## damagedgoods (Oct 17, 2003)

MatracaBergFan - Squats.... personally I prefer using a barbell,I've yet to find heavy enough dumbells! - if you find this difficult start squatting using a smith machine, this will help prevent any back injuries caused by poor form, alos you may find you can go deeper. I cycle between smith machine and squat rack every week... I go heavier on the smith machine as if I was to drop he bar it won't go through the floor or perhps kill someone training on the bench behind me.... I can se it now - some poor F**ker trying to skull crush what I am squatting.... ouch...!


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

hmmm, i've heard a lot of people get injuries from smith machine squats. IMO they are ok for front squats if you have to, but much better, and harder to do the real thing! Using the smithy can throw too much stress onto your knees and therefore shaft them! So basically, dont go heavy on them if your using the smith machine!

And coz im really pleased with myself, i thought id show off, i got a 250kg squat for 2 last night and i cant walk today


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

i use a smith machine only because there is no squat rack at my jim(sad i know) and also i train on my own. impressive weight joolz


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by superjoolz
> 
> *And coz im really pleased with myself, i thought id show off, i got a 250kg squat for 2 last night and i cant walk today *


Wow that is allot of weight. Hey joolz how tall are you and how much do you weight. In pounds for us yanks. 

I also agree with joolz on the smith machine. It controls you to much to do the natural movement of a squat.


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

hey mate, im 6'2 and about 250lbs, just under 18 stone, and just started my latest cycle last monday, really simple, just 1gram a week of enanthate and 1mg arimadex EOD, so give it another couple of weeks and weight should be up a bit...


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Damn you are a big man. Pretty impressive. Big and strong. I would be happy with just one....................ha ha ha ha.


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

cheers mate, was going to be doing a BBing comp this april, but it is the same time as my final exams, so dont want to **** them up coz of the diet! So instead, im doing a year of strongman competitions, 1st one being in may... should be fun!

Rest of stats for those interested....

Chest 50"

Neck 19"

Arms 18.5"

Waist 34"

Quads 30"

Calves 18"

Penis 12" (lol- i wish!)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by superjoolz
> 
> *Quads 30"*
> 
> ...


Wow 30" legs. How do you wear pants? Man, that is massive!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2004)

I suspect he wears the pants on his head


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

lol, TBH when your 6'2 it doesnt look that big unfortunately. I mean they are v big, but not huge! (and ive just measured them to check, and im sorry to say they are only 29.5)

But getting jeans is a problem! So i have to buy 36-38" levi's and wear a belt! As for suits, well, when im outta uni, im going to have to get one tailored! Luckily the Mrs' dad is a tailor, so im going to have to ask nicely...lol


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Damn, that is impressive stats. Were you very big before you went on the gear?


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

well, i was just under 12 stone (168lbs) before i started training 4 years ago, got to 14.5 stone (203lbs) after 2 years without gear, then have put on the rest with a bit of extra help! However, I have only done 5 cycles, and all have been short and sensible, i am a strong believer in sensible use, and not to go crazy, bang ****loads of gear in and stay on for ages (previously never gone over 8 weeks max) I also have found that diet is by fat the most important aspect of it all! And this is what has done the most for me!

I will post up some before and after pix in the next few weeks, they'll be quite amusing!


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

yeh i would like to see that., also mate i am currently on my first cycle right now,

i have been training 2 years gone from 10 and a half to 13 and a half stone before cycle

now want to go to 15 stone on cycle,

what was ur secret to holding onto gains post cycle?

i am looking to hold onto most and the same as u, maybe do a couple more cycle later on, but only sensible and not until at least 8 weeks after cycle!

thanks mate!


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

Hi mate,

Right, here is my post cylce plan...

one half life after the longest acting ester you've taken PCT starts. (ie last shot in cycle was enanthate-14 days after start)

Day 1- 300mg Clomid

Day 2-11 - 100mg Clomid

Day 12-21 - 50mg Clomid

25m proviron throughout (I use this from last shot to end of PCT)

1500mg Tribulus Throughout

45mg zinc Throughout

In regards to HCG, well, almost everyone i speak to has a different opinion. I've used it a shot every 2nd week of cycle (1500iu) or the last week of cycle 1 shot EOD. But It can aggrivate gyno badly, and I'm not too keen about a **** load of womens hormones goinginto me, especially with using Clomid PCT and arimadex through cycle, so this cycle im going to not use it, and see what happens. With everytihng else i use, im sure my balls will be fine!

There you have it. also, once off cycle, make sure your diet is even better than on cycle! keep protein v high and calories high, (I actually up both) If you do this, you will be fine. I also avoid cardio till my system is fully back up, or you will lose some of those precious gains!

Also, a minimum of 8 weeks between cycles is a must. I had 3 months off between my last cycle and this one. I actually gained weight, and only a v small increase in b/f, so dont think you'll lose it all and you need to go back on!

Good luck mate, let me know if you got any questions...


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

thats what i am so worried about, losing it, i am loving the gains, i have anti e's and hopefully getting clomid

need more food, but don't want to lose all i hvae gained i am worried about that for sure!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I use the HCG at 300 IU's every few days. Makes a big diffrence on my nuts as the tend to atrophy fast and hard. At that dose aromitization is not a concern. I use the HCG througout the cycle and it keeps the nuts working so post cycle thearapy works better. Gyno can be a problem on HCG but only in high doses. It can raise test and estrogen levels but it does tend to make me feel better when I do take it. It does tend to help with atrophied nuts and it your nuts dont atrophy then I would just blow it off.

Superjoolz, What is the best application for the proviron? Do you notice any hpta problems post cycle using proviron? Does it help you recouver or just help with no d!ck problems?


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

i use it coz i always use enanthate, and so its 2 weeks from last shot to pct, so i find sometimes towards end of that, i'm not always as "hard" down there as i should be (prob psycological tbh!) so i have it in for that. It also hardens me up, and free's up any test kicking about in your body. (Binds to shgb)

At 25mg a day during PCT you wont (well, i dont) have hpta probs, but i wouldnt run it off cycle coz it can cause problems (but that tends to be at higher doses


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

i must add hackskii, that that is not one of my best answers! I dont have too much scientific reasoning behind it (I do for most other things though!!!) and it just works well for me!!!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

So, I am using cypinate would you say that 2 weeks after my last shot use the proviron? Or should I save it for my post cycle for the d!ck? I dont recover well and the sex drive is shot post cycle. Sex drive is massive at the moment but it is should be with using cypinate @ 400 week and 200 ananthate and 400 EQ. Post cycle is hell for me.

So what do you think?


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

ok, how exactly do you do your pct atm? Do you add in tribulus?

I'd add in proviron from last shot of test. See if it works! Hopefully should!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I will do the clomid/nolvadex 2-3 weeks after the last shot. I dont want any of the AAS floating around disrupting the hpta.

I am not using any tribulis at the moment but can get in a flash, along with the zink.

I am thinking about using clomid and nolvadex for 21 and 30 days. I am kindof a hard post cycle guy and at my age 44 need all the help I can get post cycle.

I am not so worried about keeping my gains as feeling like a woman post cycle. Sex drive is really important to me as I have 2 girlfriends and love to have some sex once and a while.

Thought the proviron would help in that department (just in case).

Again the HCG works really well on the nuts during cycle and I wont give that one up till about a week after my last shot. What ever you can recomend would be appreciated.

Thanks for your input!


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

your clomid/nolva approach is good. make sure you do the clomid in the 300/100/50 fashion.

Definateltly get tribulus. I think biotest is big over the pond? and they make the best stuff-"tribex". This will stop you feeling like a woman and is really good. 1500mg day and poss up it to 2000mg.

Zinc is very good, and at 44 years young, it is a good idea to add it in. also, when on cycles, do you use Saw Palmetto? This is important in guys of your age as it protects your prostate. I'd go as far as to say its essential.

Like i say im no expert on HCG, but it seems you've go tit sussed, so keep doing what you normally do-but dont use any after 1 week after last shot.

Put in the proviron like i said, it should harden you up. (in more than one sense!)

Hope this helps bro!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

When do I first start taking the proviron?

Will it also hold back my HPTA post cycle?


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## OnePack (Jan 9, 2004)

i can only do about 3 with no weights attached! but that's after cardio. still crap eh?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Thanks superjoolz

I have proviron, I have nolvadex, I have clomid, I have tribex (biotest 2 bottles), I have natural Post cycle therapy from Protein factory 3 bottles, I have HCG, I have Ogoplex (for more sperm (herbal)), I have Enzyte (herbal erection stimulator). The only thing I dont have is the Zinc and Creatine. Easy to get.

I am probably the most ready of anyone I know for post cycle and am dreading it the most.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

superjoolz, I have been reading your posts and I really appreciate it. Thanks for all the info.


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## robin_3_16 (Aug 27, 2003)

yeh man, you are good at advice dude, did u get the m i sent the otyher day super? don't think u replied, and hackskii? i think i sent you a reply too did u get it?


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