# Victor Martinez - No progression in 4 years?



## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

Or even gone backwards?

Here are a good selection of pics i nabbed from bb.com

on the left is the 2005 IFBB San Francisco Men's Pro Bodybuilding showing, on the right is the 2009 arnold classic


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

i still wouldnt complain if i was looking like that

and making a living from it


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## jjj (Jun 1, 2008)

back an calfs DEFO better 2005, abs hard to tell because it doesnt look like hes really trying in the 2009 pic, not sure if hes overall worse, id say he was,but your right in saying defo no progress!


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## stuartcore (Jan 7, 2007)

He just got over a major need injury and as a result had surgery to repair the the snapped crucial ligament. That in mind I think he look pretty awsome!


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

He looks great. Only noticeable thing is he is far dryer looking in 2005 but I would be happy


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## MaKaVeLi (Aug 12, 2008)

Goose said:


> He looks great. Only noticeable thing is he is far dryer looking in 2005 but I would be happy


Agreed, I HAVE to look like that one day!!


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2009)

Threads like this are highly offensive, now if he was lets say a middle weight on a 5ft10 frame a comment like this could be made however about an athlete who is one of the very best in the world i find your comment a bit silly. What he has he has at this stage IMO.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 6, 2008)

I agree with Con. Vic has done a lot and come a long way for someone to sit at a keyboard and say he has gone backwards in progress.

Not to flame you bud but look at his accomplishments.

Personally I think he should have won the Arnold this year. I was there and he deserved it but I wanted Kai to win to get my bitch reps from GHS.

I think his delts and thighs look better now than in 05 and he will make a come back.

Its easy to be critical...


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## spike1 (Mar 10, 2009)

he was awsome in 2005 and he is awsome now.


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## walks (Apr 13, 2007)

I don't see the thread as offensive, we are talking about a world class BB. At this level everything is scrutinised in fine detail.

Isn't competitive BB all about talking criticism as well as reaping the applause?

I don't think hes gone backwards, the differences are subtle and not really noticeable, however is very hard to judge from pics as lighting, angle etc can effect how someone looks

Con

not sure i agree with you regards the 5'10 quote.

Are you saying that once someone hits the top then you are not aloud to question parts of their physic?

I do agree with what you say about what hes got hes got. I think to many carry on going for size when in fact they have a great physic and should maybe look to refine it, rather than going down the mass route and risk letting conditioning and certian bodyparts get away from them

A perfect example of this would be heath, Vic and Dexter. Perfectly balanced physics that would maybe be spoilt by going further down the mass route.

I think its safe to say that jay looked better before trying to match Ronnie for size. And i know a lot of people proffered Ronnie before he went crazy over the last couple of years


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2009)

> I don't see the thread as offensive, we are talking about a world class BB. At this level everything is scrutinised in fine detail.
> 
> Isn't competitive BB all about talking criticism as well as reaping the applause?


Fully agree with that statement !!!! these are pro's and can take (or should ) knocks and critisisums, even from lesser sportsmen banging away on a keyboard


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## walks (Apr 13, 2007)

BTW i should of said constructive criticism.

However i know that most bodybuilders only listen to guys they respect and trust.


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

Con said:


> Threads like this are highly offensive, now if he was lets say a middle weight on a 5ft10 frame a comment like this could be made however about an athlete who is one of the very best in the world i find your comment a bit silly. What he has he has at this stage IMO.


 Beat me to it.Id say insulting people have forgotten that this is the man who SHOULDVE been Mr Olympia in ALOT of peoples eyes.If he has digressed in 4years then in essence you are saying all the other people victor has beat has digressed.

Progression in the pro ranks aint the same as training in the gym.Victor has progressed becaue he was drier in the olympia than he had been previously.The only person I know who has ever made real clear viible progress is colman.

Pro's etc can take contructive critism yes but the key is contructive but then again pro's are highly unlikely to take what mr average/mr pc or mr amateur has to say seriously.Ps the man has had surgery and first comp back. Im not really a fan of the pro physique anyway but appreciate they are PRO'S top of the game


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Id say he looks a bit bigger overall in the newer pics. He may be slightly dryer some places in 2005 but hams luck much better in new pics. this could just be me not having a clue tho.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

ok, take a step back... it was a question for debate.

some people above have taken it as that and answered like wise, some others have sadly taken it as a bashing thread which it is not.

Look at pro's from 2005 like kai, wolf, freeman, heath.... they have progressed leaps and bounds since 2005. You have the pics side by side and you are looking at clear differences.

Victor, not so much... my question was as to why he hasnt progressed his physique in 4 years while others have been pushing harder and harder.

If your not going forward, you're just going backwards IMO.... he was beaten by a competitor at the arnold who wouldnt of been close to him 2-3 years ago.

In short, is victor being overtaken?

I have a right to debate and question, what does my status or position matter?

Do i have to be ronnie coleman to say 'hey, whats going on over there'... such weird and false logic.

I am a fan of the pros but i'm not a blind nut hugger (not saying anyone here is).

I am not insulting anyone, if you think i am then you forget this is a sport based on subjective criticism... i asked a question yet some have taken it the wrong way.


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## nibbsey (Feb 12, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> Id say he looks a bit bigger overall in the newer pics. He may be slightly dryer some places in 2005 but hams luck much better in new pics. this could just be me not having a clue tho.


 I agree with you hilly. To me he has a better thicker back and thicker bigger arms, in fact the only thing you can say is his legs have not changed muchbut as Mr Core stated earlier he has just got over major surgery which is why, i should think his side chest pose is the opposite side now showing his better quad. He has a quality physique, i'm not sure he should have got 2nd place though imo...


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## GM-20 (Feb 5, 2009)

i think his progress is less than heath or kai....

saying that at his stage progress will be very small and two pics may not capture that.

going from the pics, he has a little more thickness on his frame however condition in the 05 shots is better.

good thread IB and i do not see it as offensive.....


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## brickhoused (Mar 12, 2008)

Look at pro's from 2005 like kai, wolf, freeman, heath.... they have progressed leaps and bounds since 2005. You have the pics side by side and you are looking at clear differences.

Yes, but Victor has been at the top of his game for many years now, where as the guys you mention a fairly new to top level bodybuilding, ofcourse Victors progress is going to slow hes an absoloute monster.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

i think he looks awesome, what more progress is there to be had???? look at ronnie and jay cutler, their quest for size has ruined their physiques, victor has made improvements in his arms, delts and back, small changes make the world of difference


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

I dunno how he got 2nd in the Arnold, branch and toney were better in my eyes... branch owned him on nearly everything


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

gym rat said:


> i think he looks awesome, what more progress is there to be had???? look at ronnie and jay cutler, their quest for size has ruined their physiques, victor has made improvements in his arms, delts and back, small changes make the world of difference


a very good point....

but do you think the judges heads are turned by those who make the massive leaps in physique than those who polish/hone on an already good one?

sometimes i think the judging can be a bit reactionist to someone who has made a massive change and glossing over the bad side effects of this (distended stomachs etc)


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

If he was stagnant, his placing would have reflected this.

The man was robbed of a Olympia in 07, and back in 2006 at the O, no one would have really complained if he won there too.

Let him heal from him surgery. I want to see a 100% Victor


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## stuartcore (Jan 7, 2007)

PRL said:


> If he was stagnant, his placing would have reflected this.
> 
> The man was robbed of a Olympia in 07, and back in 2006 at the O, no one would have really complained if he won there too.
> 
> Let him heal from him surgery. I want to see a 100% Victor


Got to agree with you there PRL. :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2009)

walks said:


> Con
> 
> not sure i agree with you regards the 5'10 quote.
> 
> ...


 My point was i can understand debating a mans physique when he is not filled out and complete so a man who stands 5ft10 and is a middle weight obviously he is not going to be completely filled out so its reasonable to say "yeah he needs more here and there".

Vic M is one of the elite untouchable by 99.999% of the population whatever they try and do thus i find it a bit silly for us to be debating if he is making progress or whatever. For me it comes down to respect and until i am of high enough quality to stand next to him and perhaps beat him i can not bring my self to critique how he looks, it just feels petty to me.

Its all about what they bring on the day, these are the so called changes your seeing its those few lb of muscle he retains as he diets or that perfect loss of a couple of water lb in the right places to give his whole body a different look.

At the end of the day its only my opinion, he has the body that i have committed every day for years to achieve yet he has it i dont so i cant say any thing bad about him.

Incredible bulk you know i like you and i enjoy your posts i am only adding my opinion and i realise i often dont word my self in a PC enough fashion so i come across rude i am not trying to put you down or any thing like that and i think you realise this.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

all good mate lol... i know the score 

all sides of the dice are welcomed


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

GM-20 said:


> i think his progress is less than heath or kai....


I dont think this is valid as Heath and Kai are much newer to the game then Victor, hence you have seen their rise to the top lately. What you are forgetting is victor has been at the top for a while now. He cant go much firther up then to win the Olympia!

Comparing the pics I actually thinks he looks better now. I can see more detail in the quads now compared to 2005. Main thing is the abs and thighs shot which doesnt look as good as the 2005 pic. However that to me just looks like the pose is different and not showing the abs as well


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## walks (Apr 13, 2007)

Con said:


> My point was i can understand debating a mans physique when he is not filled out and complete so a man who stands 5ft10 and is a middle weight obviously he is not going to be completely filled out so its reasonable to say "yeah he needs more here and there".
> 
> Vic M is one of the elite untouchable by 99.999% of the population whatever they try and do thus i find it a bit silly for us to be debating if he is making progress or whatever. For me it comes down to respect and until i am of high enough quality to stand next to him and perhaps beat him i can not bring my self to critique how he looks, it just feels petty to me.
> 
> ...


i do agree with you, i think alot of pepole are use to seeing the likes of ronnie or jay go for mass at all costs and seeing a big diffence in size every year.

I admire the likes of heath vic and dexter who know they have the right size and dont want to go down the same route.

Dexter is th perfect example. He doesnt seem to have put much size on over the last 3 years yet he trys to get harder and drier for every show, result was him finaly winning the O.

On another point those pics are deciving, Ive seen some others from the weekend and vic is definatly bigger and better than the 1st pics. You can also see why they gave him 2nd as the non MD pics show the diffrence between his 2 legs.

Hopfully he will be back to his pre injury best for next years O


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## GM-20 (Feb 5, 2009)

willsey4 said:


> I dont think this is valid as Heath and Kai are much newer to the game then Victor, hence you have seen their rise to the top lately. What you are forgetting is victor has been at the top for a while now. He cant go much firther up then to win the Olympia!
> 
> Comparing the pics I actually thinks he looks better now. I can see more detail in the quads now compared to 2005. Main thing is the abs and thighs shot which doesnt look as good as the 2005 pic. However that to me just looks like the pose is different and not showing the abs as well


newer, heath yes. kai not so much.

anyway if you compare an 05 kai or heath to a 05 vic then yes there improvments are greater. that was my point.

and lets be real there is far less detail in the 09 pics in his quads...


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

GM-20 said:


> and lets be real there is far less detail in the 09 pics in his quads...


I dunno. There is more details in the 09 pic of his middle quads but then he has lost as much strations in the 09 pic.

SO i supple the same really


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