# Whats best for a Second Cycle? Lean Hard Mass Gains!



## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

Hi,

I am approaching the end of my first cycle of test e 500mg, last week next week. I am looking into what would be good for a 2nd cycle for when i start again.

Obviously im going to have a break after my PCT. How long is the wait before you hit the gear again?

My goal for my next cycle is hard, lean mass. I still want to gain the size but id like to remain lean and my diet will be changed to accomodate this.

My test e cycle has been good, made some great gains, but had lot of water retention and bloat, again diet was a bulking one, but next time im really looking for hard lean gains.

Would would be best for this for a second cycle?

My Test E Blog can be seen here if your interested.

Cheers

Paul


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

1g of tren a week, sweat that boat right out


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

:lol:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tasty i hope you are joking??

pbul2004 - why not use the same cycle but adjust your diet to suit your goals i see no reason to change the cycle...

i will say good luck with gaining "hard, lean mass" as this is very hard to do


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## Big Scouse (Sep 30, 2008)

Why not do the same again with maybe winnie or a AI added?


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2009)

pbul2004 said:


> How long is the wait before you hit the gear again?


 As long as possible in the mean time prepare your diet and training plans to make the most out of your cycle. I would just go with the same cycle it works great for the majority of people, just pay more attention to diet and training


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## Tom1990 (Dec 21, 2008)

what about a steady 250test 250tren for 10 weeks? But as pscarb says, your diet will determine what type of gains you achieve


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

its all about diet as in the above posts.


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

I was joking! I'd be scared of 1g of test let alone tren! Reading stuff from people saying they felt like they were dying is enough to worry me just a tad.


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

sustanon 500mg+eq 600mg a week


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## CONDOR (Apr 9, 2003)

600mgs a week eq for a second cycle.

I think you should stick with 500mgs test with the addition of 50mgs winstrol and the end of your cycle ran so that it bridges you jabs and takes you straight into your pct, you will be delighted


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## bigacb (Nov 13, 2007)

Id prob add in an oral for the first 4 weeks week. Water retention is down to diet. Dont restrict your diet too much as this will hinder gains. It all depends on what you want out of the cycle. If its to get bigger id keep cals high but thats me.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

stavmangr said:


> sustanon 500mg+eq 600mg a week


its a second cycle

do you realise what bad advise this is?


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

CONDOR said:


> 600mgs a week eq for a second cycle.
> 
> I think you should stick with 500mgs test with the addition of 50mgs winstrol and the end of your cycle ran so that it bridges you jabs and takes you straight into your pct, you will be delighted


this is more like it....good advise


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Id do the test again because im a great believer in "if it aint broke, dont bloody fix it" rule.


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## jassdhali (Jul 2, 2008)

itraininthedark said:


> its all about diet as in the above posts.


When implying diet what kinda ratios are you suggesting to restrict the bloat/water retention.


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## Meerkat1436114607 (Feb 6, 2009)

jassdhali said:


> When implying diet what kinda ratios are you suggesting to restrict the bloat/water retention.


Keep your diet clean mate, not too much dirty food.

Try and keep your salt intake low so stay away from processed foods and dont add too much salt to your food.

Keep your water intake high, you'll find that most people suggetst 4 litres a day, i couldn't really tell exactly you how much because i drink loads anyway


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Think i will stick to 10 weeks of test e 500mg again.

If i did add winstrol in, would this be best done at the end or beginning of the cycle? How long should it be run for? Is injection better over the tablet option?

Most of the people at our gym are on dbol or just dbol for the first 4 weeks of a cycle.

Cheers.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

winstrol is best added to weeks 11&12 after 10 weeks of test

dbol or winstrol weeks 1-4 is worthwhile....but imo only really needed weeks 1&2 as test is in flow by week 3


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

so if i did 10 weeks test, then weeks 11 and 12 do winstrol then straight into PCT after the winstrol?

Would it worth adding dbol or winstrol in at the start as well for 3 or 4 weeks?


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

pbul2004 said:


> so if i did 10 weeks test, then weeks 11 and 12 do winstrol then straight into PCT after the winstrol?
> 
> Would it worth adding dbol or winstrol in at the start as well for 3 or 4 weeks?


Dbol + High carb diet = Water retention. Keep your second cycle simple. Yes with the winstrol if you want to run it.



pbul2004 said:


> Most of the people at our gym are on dbol.


as in all gyms must be the bicep boys


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

Yeah i think ill just stick to 500mg test e and add winny in.

Would it be best adding it in towards the end, or run it all way through, or just last 4 weeks?


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

Would this be a good 2nd cycle. I have been researching and Primo seems pretty good, not many side effects, good for keeping lean and non toxic. So was thinking this would be a good addition to the cycle. Is it best to use tablets for winny (i know there pretty toxic) but heard the jabs are prone to abscesses!

Week 1-10 - Test E 500mg (10 weeks on test e)

Week 1-7 - Primo 50mg per day ( 7 weeks Primo)

Week 9-12 - Winstrol 20 or 50mg per day (3 weeks)

Week 12 - PCT - Nolva and Clomid

HCG run throughout 500iu twice a week

Adex 0.5mg EOD throughout

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

anyone?


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

pbul2004 said:


> anyone?


I doubt many people will have used primo mate.

Gear won't determine whether you get 'lean hard mass' as much as diet will.

In short, eat less carbs if you want to harden up.


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## pbul2004 (Sep 10, 2008)

Yeh this is what im intending to do for my 2nd cycle regards diet. I am going to be doing this after i finish PCT.

But the cycle itself seems to be ok?


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

I don't know much about primo other than it's a weak drug mate.

If you just stuck to test and ate less carbs and ran an AI you should make leaner gains.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the primo will do nothing for you in a cycle with 500mg of Test E

why not use T/bol or D/bol seeing as your diet is going to be sorted....


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## ZAXXXXX (Oct 3, 2008)

pbul2004 said:


> Would this be a good 2nd cycle. I have been researching and Primo seems pretty good, not many side effects, good for keeping lean and non toxic. So was thinking this would be a good addition to the cycle. Is it best to use tablets for winny (i know there pretty toxic) but heard the jabs are prone to abscesses!
> 
> Week 1-10 - Test E 500mg (10 weeks on test e)
> 
> ...


 Been doing 6oomg test e5d and running adex at 0.5mg e3d and had no bloat at all, lean solid gains all the way and no gyno worries.


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## itraininthedark (Oct 3, 2007)

your making things to complicated, using different drugs will not cause your wanted lean mass gains.. as has been said many times above, it is diet related, use your diet to help shape your physique the drugs just help but ultimately its down to what foods your shoving in your mouth. I find the firt two weeks of lean dieting the hardest, but once in the routine and everythings prepd everyday it becomes the norm and i do enjoy it as i see my self grow but remain nice and hard at the same time too.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

As above really. I would personally do the same again with 4-6 weeks dbol at 30mg ED. I would also recommend a good AI (adex is a safe bet and will help prevent gyno and bloat) and running HCG at around 500IU E3-5D  .


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

pbul2004 said:


> Would this be a good 2nd cycle. I have been researching and Primo seems pretty good, not many side effects, good for keeping lean and non toxic. So was thinking this would be a good addition to the cycle. Is it best to use tablets for winny (i know there pretty toxic) but heard the jabs are prone to abscesses!
> 
> Week 1-10 - Test E 500mg (10 weeks on test e)
> 
> ...


Completely OTT and unnecessary IMO. You must realise that you only need to go up in small increments to progress. Just do the same cycle with the addition of dbol in the early stages. For your third cycle, perhaps dbol, test and 300mg deca. For your fourth cycle replace the deca with tren. All you're doing atm is taking it slow and finding what you respond well to. Just keep making small changes, adding or replacing one compound at a time, and you'll progress at a good rate while minimising the stress placed on your body and the side effects you encounter.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2009)

Weeks 1-10 500mg test e

Weeks 9-12 Winny 50mg ed

Week 12,13,14 PCT of whatever you design!

I have used Primo and was not impressed. A friend ran it at 1g a week for 14 weeks and rates it over any other AAS, but that will cost mad money!

IMO keep things simple, if you want lean hard gains so to speak, as stated adapt diet. 3 weeks winny at the end is nice, and imo a 3-4 week kick start of 30mg dbol a day would not hurt should you wish.


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