# Hit a plateau - advice please



## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

Hi all,

I've been training now for 4.5 months. I started at 11 stone 11lb and I've made good gains up to 13 stone now. Eating fairly clean, taking in around 3200 - 3500 calories a day. ectomorph. The last 4 weeks or so my weight gain appears to have stopped and my lifts have stalled - in fact I think I'm putting some fat on rather than muscle. In fact I think that the only things that are progressing still are deadlifts and squats, where i'm still adding a KG or two every week.

I train 4 times a week;

Mon chest/tri's

Tue back/bi's

Wed rest

Thur Shoulders

Friday Legs

Sat rest

Sun rest

So what can I do to push past this stall?

Cheers,

Paul.


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## Edinburgh (Sep 2, 2012)

If you've only been training for 4.5 months natty you've nowhere near hit a plateau with your lifts


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

Things might just be slowing down, wouldn't worry about it. Its a marathon not a sprint.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

That's not advice!!

What would you call it then? I'm not progressing, in my book I've plateaued?


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

F.M.J said:


> Things might just be slowing down, wouldn't worry about it. Its a marathon not a sprint.


Really? I've only put half a pound on in 4 weeks?


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## &lt;JAY_JAY&gt; (Jan 4, 2007)

lol you just a beginner, try that yt3 training by neil hill, i think it helps conquer any plateuas , but i think your asking for to much to quick, your only 4 months in and you have gained 15 pound,natty already, wont be all lean muscle like  , your gona need more calories again for more weight, maybe use the mirror a bit more and not worry about the scales.


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## Edinburgh (Sep 2, 2012)

sorry mate if you've taken my post in the wrong way but it was advice. you've only been training 4.5 months natty am i right?

the weights aren't gonna go up every week like F.M.J is saying - it'll stall then pick back up again, just keep doing what your doing


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

> lol you just a beginner' date=' try that yt3 training by neil hill, i think it helps conquer any plateuas , but i think your asking for to much to quick, your only 4 months in and you have gained 15 pound,natty already, wont be all lean muscle like  , your gona need more calories again for more weight, maybe use the mirror a bit more and not worry about the scales.[/quote']
> 
> Was just going to say I wouldn't chase the scales. I think its an ego thing. Go by the mirror. I'm just under 17 stone... but that means nothing.
> 
> ...


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

> lol you just a beginner' date=' try that yt3 training by neil hill, i think it helps conquer any plateuas , but i think your asking for to much to quick, your only 4 months in and you have gained 15 pound,natty already, wont be all lean muscle like  , your gona need more calories again for more weight, maybe use the mirror a bit more and not worry about the scales.[/quote']
> 
> It's more the strength that I want to get going again. Is there nothing I can do to my routine to get my strength to increase again?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

First of all congratulations, you are doing really well. After 4 months, your noob gains will run dry, leading to adaption from your body. You will can either persist with you are doing with more calories (a 13st body take more energy to run than a 11st body) or change your training.

This is a great routine for people with 0-4 years experience and you can get away with running this for about 2 years with smart use of exercise rotation. There are a number of guys who use this great effect on here.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/natural-bodybuilding/207069-piemans-4-day-routine-intermediate-lifters-upper-lower.html

Bench 3 x 5

Row 3 x 5

Dips 4 x 10

Pull ups BW 4 x F

optional bicep curls & Side raises

Lower 1

Squat 3 x 5

SLDLs 4 x 10

Lunges 2 x 8 el

optional calves

Upper 2

Decline bench 3 x 5

t-rows 3 x 5

OHP 4 x 10

Chins 4 x 10

optional - triceps pushdowns & facepulls

lower 2

sumo Deadlifts 3 x 5

front squats 4 x 10

GHR or pull throughs or hamstring curls 2 x 8

optional - calves

Doing lower body twice a week will feel like a shocjk at first, but it toughens you up good and makes the upper days feel like holidays. Any questions, just ask


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

edinburgh6982 said:


> sorry mate if you've taken my post in the wrong way but it was advice. you've only been training 4.5 months natty am i right?
> 
> the weights aren't gonna go up every week like F.M.J is saying - it'll stall then pick back up again, just keep doing what your doing


Sorry mate, must be that time of the month!!


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## Edinburgh (Sep 2, 2012)

Paul R said:


> Sorry mate, must be that time of the month!!


I can tell with the excessive use of the exclamation marks - natty rage lol

only joking mate


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> First of all congratulations, you are doing really well. After 4 months, your noob gains will run dry, leading to adaption from your body. You will can either persist with you are doing with more calories (a 13st body take more energy to run than a 11st body) or change your training.
> 
> This is a great routine for people with 0-4 years experience and you can get away with running this for about 2 years with smart use of exercise rotation. There are a number of guys who use this great effect on here.
> 
> ...


Should I keep the weight the same when switching routines or drop the weight slightly?

Also, if i chuck in some cardio, would that help?


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

IMO you can't just keep bulking and not get fat. I would lose some fat, whilst maintaining as much strength as poss, then bulk again. This way you have more room to gain on your next bulk/strength training without getting out if shape. At the end if the day, when gains stall, eat more food.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Paul R said:


> Should I keep the weight the same when switching routines or drop the weight slightly?
> 
> Also, if i chuck in some cardio, would that help?


I think its good to drop the weight a little and work up. Getting some momentum in progression is huge. Also a break is good for the system.

Cardio? If want to do cardio, do it. If you don't, don't.

Assuming you aren't a porker and unfit, it won't make a difference. Personally I like to do cardio, but too much will affect your gains


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

Most of it has been said so changing your routine is your best bet when you think you are not gaining, you could change the whole thing and look at stronglifts 5x5 or just change a few exercise every few months also if you think you are starting to put to much fat on look at your diet and drop some carbs maybe and up your protein


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Google ' Stronglifts 5x5 ', download the free excel sheet, type in your stats, eat, train, growwwwww.

I've done stronglifts myself and it's great for a newb, basically it's a full body 3x a week, you start at a very low weight and each session you add 2.5kg to every lift, I can't recommend a better/easier workout for a beginner.

Added 20-30kgs to my squat in 12 weeks all eu-natural


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Want to give your full routine breakdown?

Advice can be given too quickly round here


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

How much effort do you put in in the gym, out of 10..?


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Try different exercises

How much protein are you taking in daily?


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

MutantX said:


> Want to give your full routine breakdown?
> 
> Advice can be given too quickly round here


*Mon - back + biceps*

Hyper extension 10kg x 8

Bent over rows 75kg x 5 (80 x 5) - same next week

Bench rows 34kg x 5

Dumbbell pullovers 32 x 5

Hammer curls 15kg x 5

*Tues - chest/tri's*

Bench 60kg x 5 and 65 x 5 and 70 x 4

Dumbbell press 23kg x 8

Flies 12kg x 5

Dips 5 x 8 + 15kg

*Wed - off*

*Thur - Shoulders*

Dumbbell front raise 10kg x 5

Bent over lateral raise 12kg x 5

Barbell over head press 45kg x 5, 50kg x 4

Dumbbell shrugs 30kg x 7

*Fri - Legs/hams*

Dead lift 113 x 5

Squat 79kg x 5

Dumbbell calf raise 30kg x 8

*Sat - off*

*
Sun - off*

*
*

Thats my routine at the moment. I have a bench, squat stands, barbbell and dumbbells at home - so thats what I have to work with.

I do 5 sets of most of the excersices, putting more weight on each set (if that makes sense)


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

L11 said:


> How much effort do you put in in the gym, out of 10..?


probably about a 7 - I work out at home.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

WilsonR6 said:


> Try different exercises
> 
> How much protein are you taking in daily?


About 280 grams of protein a day.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

are your goals more strength related or bodybuilding?


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

MutantX said:


> are your goals more strength related or bodybuilding?


Bodybuilding, I want to put some size on.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Just a few ideas

you might want to stay in the 6-12 rep range for isolation exercises especially for things such as front raises and side laterals. I would prob sub in side laterals for the front raises. I'd want some form of tricep extensions after the dips, skull crushers maybe? If deads are your only ham exercise I would do sumo deads. Pullovers first on back day to pre fatigue the lats.

4-8 reps on the compounds is fine.

I'd shoot for 1.5-2.0g protein per lb bodyweight

0.5g fats

rest of cals from carbs


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Paul R said:


> probably about a 7 - I work out at home.


You can still train hard at home. I have train at home and in gyms and the biggest problem I found training at home was putting off the workout for latter which then turned into the next day. I could still train hard if in a gym or at home.

If you say you are not making progress but are only giving 7 out of 10 for effort then what do you think is holding you back?


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

The point is that I've been making good progress until now....

You may be right....perhaps I need to step it up a notch and and change routine as suggested.

Cheers,

Paul.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

intensity has nothing to do with routine.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

MutantX said:


> intensity has nothing to do with routine.


No, but other people have suggested a change in routine would help too.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Paul R said:


> No, but other people have suggested a change in routine would help too.


well if you really think you need to change routines then do simons.

stronglifts will not match your goals.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

MutantX said:


> well if you really think you need to change routines then do simons.
> 
> stronglifts will not match your goals.


Get strong, then get big.

3 months on stronglifts will see his lifts shoot up compared to 3 months on a 4 day split, the more strength you have, the more weight you can use for hypertrophy. As we all know, bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> Get strong, then get big.
> 
> 3 months on stronglifts will see his lifts shoot up compared to 3 months on a 4 day split, the more strength you have, the more weight you can use for hypertrophy. As we all know, bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint.


Oh that old chestnut


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Paul R said:


> probably about a 7 - I work out at home.


Put in an 8 then. Simple.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

MutantX said:


> Oh that old chestnut


True though 

I'm not saying focus on powerlifting for life, but focusing on strength will break through any plateaus you come across


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> True though
> 
> I'm not saying focus on powerlifting for life, but focusing on strength will break through any plateaus you come across


If he said he was plateauing with his lifts I would agree but I think he said they were still going up?

Also stronglift isn't a good routine even for powerlifting.

I would say look up 5/3/1 if lifts are struggling.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

as well as swapping routine - would it be advisable to try a course of pro hormones? I will have pro mag in reserve, for when I feel the need! Maybe a thread for another day


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Paul R said:


> as well as swapping routine - would it be advisable to try a course of pro hormones? I will have pro mag in reserve, for when I feel the need! Maybe a thread for another day


No it would not be advisable. You already said you give 7 out of 10 for effort. Just train harder.

Your initial gains will come easy after that gains will be harder. You need to be training harder and with consistancy and keep following your diet.

You get what is called diminishing returns were you need to put in more effort for less returns but that's just the way it is.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

Went full bore tonight. 10/10. Knackered now!!


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

Pause between reps

drop the reps increase the sets.

Drop the weight and increase the speed

There are plenty more.


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## cutecarl30 (Oct 9, 2012)

When do u train forearms, traps and abs ?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

cutecarl30 said:


> When do u train forearms, traps and abs ?


If you deadlift regularly, heavy and properly, all 3 of those will grow.


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## cutecarl30 (Oct 9, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> If you deadlift regularly, heavy and properly, all 3 of those will grow.


True, dead lifts are the boys ! but if u only dead lifting once a week, id use a spare day on the weekend to do traps, forearms, abs, nice and light slow high rep movements for awrsome isolation. rip the muslces up


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

cutecarl30 said:


> True, dead lifts are the boys ! but if u only dead lifting once a week, id use a spare day on the weekend to do traps, forearms, abs, nice and light slow high rep movements for awrsome isolation. rip the muslces up


Why?

Your forearms get worked pretty much what ever you do. Traps you could just do some shrugs at the end of a workout and abs could be fit into some other workout.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

I do my traps on shoulder day. ABS, I just throw in once a week.

Things are progressing again now anyway - I took some advice on here and came to the conclusion that I've put on more fat than I would have liked. So I'm considering doing a cut, to get rid of some fat, then a bulk after.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

I do my traps on shoulder day. ABS, I just throw in once a week.

Things are progressing again now anyway - I took some advice on here and came to the conclusion that I've put on more fat than I would have liked. So I'm considering doing a cut, to get rid of some fat, then a bulk after.


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## Paul R (Oct 1, 2012)

Just a question, but do the weights I've put on here look a bit too heavy for someone of my weight? I'm wondering if I should drop the weight on the isolation exercises?


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## SteHowie (Apr 4, 2012)

WOW - over a stone on in 4.5 months - that is no ecto morph! Think you may need to re-evaluate that bit there. Don't be down hearted that is really great going.

Plateau - you need a really good basis to your training before you start to move into a split routine.

For me - I would advise you to go back to basics and kick start your gains. Squat, Bench, Deadlift - all the big movements, master them, get the technique right, watch the weights grow and then consider moving into a more advanced stage.

yes your body adapts to whatever routine you throw at it - I have trained for over 30 years and don't do the same routine every week to keep mybody guessing.

Plus also remember - we are pre defined on how much size, gains we can make - being a natty is a very slow progression and a way of life, not an instant hit. Consistency is the kay and appreciating that weight lifted is not necessarily going to give you massive growth.


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