# Pull/ Chin Ups All the way down?



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi,

My first post here so hello and cool forum by the way, cant believe I have never noticed it before in the last 3 years...

Anyway my question is on chin ups should you go all the way down to a dead hang between each rep or stop before you are at a dead hang?

I realise going to a hang will probably work back more and partial will work arms more but I was just wondnering what you all do?


----------



## Críostóir (Dec 12, 2009)

all the way down; if you cant start with -ve pull ups to build strength


----------



## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

Welcome to UKM.

Harder to go full range of motion but will probably increase you strength quicker, especially if you go slower on the negative.


----------



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

Yeh thats what I usually do fast on the way up then all the way down slowly to dead hang then up again....

Just wanted to check because most people I see dont go all the way down, maybe its just because they cant lol.

Thanks for the welcome... I have been looking around qite a bit last few days and its a good forum.


----------



## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

All the way for me,chins have really helped bring my biceps forward recently!


----------



## Will101 (Apr 14, 2009)

yeah, all the way down to you are dead still then start the next rep


----------



## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

I don't allow my elbows to fully stretch out as it causes pain for me but besides .5 inches missing its full ROM.


----------



## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Lois if i can only do 8 super strict dead hang chins in my first set, what would be a good strategy for progression?

heavy triples perhaps then back to bodyweight?

im aspiring to get up to weighted chins but find it a hard exercise to progress on


----------



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

You could try weighted with a belt or a DB between your legs....

And also you could try doing partial reps.... I think getting stuck on chins is more down to your thinking... you just need to focus and hang there for a few seconds then MAKE SURE you get the last rep lol.


----------



## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

shauno said:


> Lois if i can only do 8 super strict dead hang chins in my first set, what would be a good strategy for progression?
> 
> heavy triples perhaps then back to bodyweight?
> 
> im aspiring to get up to weighted chins but find it a hard exercise to progress on


One way to progress I read about years ago and used to good effect is to do 50 pull ups each back session. If it takes 10 sets, it takes 10 sets, if you can do it in 5 or less, all the better.


----------



## Bale (Dec 16, 2008)

BillC said:


> One way to progress I read about years ago and used to good effect is to do 50 pull ups each back session. If it takes 10 sets, it takes 10 sets, if you can do it in 5 or less, all the better.


that would probly be enough for my whole back day for me lol... doesnt that seem too much?


----------



## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

BillC said:


> One way to progress I read about years ago and used to good effect is to do 50 pull ups each back session. If it takes 10 sets, it takes 10 sets, if you can do it in 5 or less, all the better.


Think that's was what Arnie used to recommend too.

Heard another option is getting a door frame chinning bar and doing the whole "grease the groove" thing. Every time you walk through the door do a set of 3 or so chins


----------



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

Or maybe instead of 50...

For example you want to get 3 sets of 10

First set you get 9 then 8 then 7.... So you do another 6 reps so you make your target of 30, even though it took more than 3 sets instead of just saying "meh i cant do more than 3 sets of 8".

So when you have done that for a month or so you will probably find you can get your 30 reps in 3 sets of 10.

Hope that makes sense!


----------



## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

Ive been getting my training partner to help me up a bit from the hips when im failing to keep it moving.

like last set get him to help me to 8-10 reps


----------



## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

i like to go all the way down,pause and stretch with a narrow

grip,stretch and pull the lats out between sets.

however i dont do this anymore:laugh:theres no point.


----------



## Ryan16 (Feb 8, 2010)

i try to go all the way down but i always ends up fooked  ha

first set i can do right down fine, second set stop slightly before the dead hang, then third im absallot ****ed haha! awell i'l get better in time hopefully  :thumb:


----------



## Gerry_bhoy (Dec 25, 2008)

I hang a bit at the bottom to, to eliminate momentum.


----------



## stonecoldzero (Aug 30, 2009)

I try to concentrate on mind connex to muscle.

From dead hang to medium-paced positive with good form to slow negative to dead hang repeat.

Please note - doing pullups, chins etc like above is not good for the ego if you think someone might be watching. :laugh:

For what it's worth, I never do any 2 sets with the same grip, width, etc. Same with various types of pulldowns and rows.


----------



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

stonecoldzero said:


> I try to concentrate on mind connex to muscle.
> 
> From dead hang to medium-paced positive with good form to slow negative to dead hang repeat.
> 
> ...


Yeh but if the person watching knew what they were doing then they would realise you were doing it properly and not like a newbie :thumb:


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I go down as far as I can without losing tension in the muscle. If you go all the way down into a full stretch you have to relax, and this doesn't do anything to aid development IMO and just breaks your rhythm.


----------



## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

What are peoples views on using hip drive?

When I get tired i tend to go slow on the negative and use hip drive to drive up fast.


----------



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

Dtlv74 said:


> I go down as far as I can without losing tension in the muscle. If you go all the way down into a full stretch you have to relax, and this doesn't do anything to aid development IMO and just breaks your rhythm.


Hmm I would have thought as you are hanging then even if you go to a dead hang there is still muscle tension....

Obviously with something like bicep curls you want to cut short the ROM to keep tension on the bicep but if you are hanging then even at a dead hang Might take the tension off your arms but your lats would still be under tension?


----------



## seppuku (Dec 6, 2008)

When I'm training with a partner, I cross my ankles and he grabs my feet. This way if I'm getting to the end of the set I can lightly push off him to get another few reps out.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Nirk - mean going all the way down to where you shoulders stretch within the joint... sure there's some muscular tension when stretched, there is in all muscles at all times, but I feel the best way to perform chins or pullups is a slow negative with a brief pause at the bottom and an explosive concentric... the explosive concentric isn't really possible from a reduction in tension if you over do the pre stretch. That's how it feels to me anyway.


----------



## steve h (Jan 6, 2010)

no sourcing


----------



## robo029 (Jan 29, 2008)

All the way down, once your good for 12 add weight


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

If Carlsberg did Thread Hijacks then.....................


----------



## Gza1 (Aug 6, 2007)

\ said:


> If Carlsberg did Thread Hijacks then.....................


Haha


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

steve h said:


> no sourcing


Tom is on the ball today...


----------



## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

i find high/max rep kipping pullups just as effective as deadhang pullups, if not more so, as you can basically fatigue every muscle in the chain.

I usually do a varierty of styles, L-pullups (very strict, leg's raised), weighted, strict, kipping, and occasionally jumping (more for cardio).

I always go from full extension to chin or chest to the bar. Though I do find when I am doing 1RM's that I struggle at the top of the movement rather than the bottom, so perhaps I should try some partial reps


----------



## whackedout (Sep 10, 2009)

stonecoldzero said:


> I try to concentrate on mind connex to muscle.
> 
> From dead hang to medium-paced positive with good form to slow negative to dead hang repeat.
> 
> ...


Got to second that, not good for the ego at all.

I always find that if I focus at a good pace, concentrate on the negative as hard as the positive, eliminate momentum (hip drive, I struggle to get 8 good reps for 3 sets but I feel the benefit (if muscle soreness is a benefit) the next day.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Talking of styles of pull ups, do many people do (or have the kit to do) hammer grip pullups?

I once had one of those triceps bars with the hammer grip and wedged it into the rafters in my garage to do hammer pullups and found that absolutely awesome... much better either than standard pullups or chins for the upper back. Feels a very natural movement.


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Hammer grip as in palms facing??

Do these more than any other pull up, good for overall back, JW put me on to them tbf,

so must be good


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

tel3563 said:


> Hammer grip as in palms facing??
> 
> Do these more than any other pull up, good for overall back, JW put me on to them tbf,
> 
> so must be good


Yes exactly. I really want to find a way to do these again, great exercise.


----------



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Pretty sure you can buy wall mounted bars with these attatched


----------



## EssexMalRider (Apr 23, 2010)

Sorry to bump the thread, but seeing as we are talking form here I have a question.

What is the recommended grip...

Palms facing away from you, or behind you?

Grip shoulder width apart or wider/narrower?

Been flicking around the net and can't find a decent answer.


----------



## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

EssexMalRider said:


> Sorry to bump the thread, but seeing as we are talking form here I have a question.
> 
> What is the recommended grip...
> 
> ...


Mix them up I'd say mate, you'll hit your lats, romboids, traps, rear delts and biceps from all different angles that way.

Personally I start with shoulder width pull ups (grip facing away) as I'm the weakest in this exercise, then move on to shoulder width hammer grip then close hammer grip, then back out to standard chins.

Biceps and back get blasted. :thumbup1:


----------



## DS1 (Apr 19, 2010)

I cant do a pull ups weight too much lol


----------



## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

UKWolverine said:


> What are peoples views on using hip drive?
> 
> When I get tired i tend to go slow on the negative and use hip drive to drive up fast.


i use hip drive all the time (kipping pullups), though it may run counter to popular opinion as many people consider them cheating, they are however just a different exercise.

i find they help with my strength and stamina, they also are good for circuits as you can maintain intensity. I find mine tend to have an amount of eccentric motion on the way down, as I don't free fall to the bottom.

i rarely do weighted pull-ups, yet my 1RM is now 50kg at 75kg bodyweight :thumbup1:


----------



## EssexMalRider (Apr 23, 2010)

UKWolverine said:


> Mix them up I'd say mate, you'll hit your lats, romboids, traps, rear delts and biceps from all different angles that way.
> 
> Personally I start with shoulder width pull ups (grip facing away) as I'm the weakest in this exercise, then move on to shoulder width hammer grip then close hammer grip, then back out to standard chins.
> 
> Biceps and back get blasted. :thumbup1:


Thanks for the help. :thumbup1:

Pull day tomorrow so i'll be putting this advice to good use!


----------



## UKWolverine (Apr 25, 2009)

gerg said:


> i rarely do weighted pull-ups, yet my 1RM is now 50kg at 75kg bodyweight :thumbup1:


That's impressive strength to weight ratio, especially on pull ups.



EssexMalRider said:


> Thanks for the help. :thumbup1:
> 
> Pull day tomorrow so i'll be putting this advice to good use!


Cool let us know how you get on. I like it as it's a bit of variety and you can see improvements week on week. I think its a case that one movement aids in bringing on other movements.


----------



## EssexMalRider (Apr 23, 2010)

I used to bang dozens of these out in one sitting... not any more though :no:

Did 4 sets of 3! Then got frustrated so did 3 sets of pull downs and then another 2 sets of 2! Switched the grip around a bit through the sets, obviously the underhand grip is a lot easier than overhand, which is why I raised the question in the first place.

Oh well, I'll keep at it. It's annoying that I'll only be hitting this exercise once a week with the splits I am doing. And I didn't really feel any strain on the lats during the exercise, although i felt my form was ok. Hopefully the pain will kick in later today or tomorrow.

One other thing that was a bit annoying was that at the end of this pull workout my tri's were really fatigued. Granted they were stuffed from my push on Sunday, but I didn't think I would be involving them so much on my pull night.

Perhaps I need to look into my form a bit. Last night i did deads, db rows, pull ups ( :wacko: ), bd shrugs and hammer curls. So not sure where the tri's came in.


----------



## Jackal (Mar 24, 2010)

I did a lot of bodyweight work before starting with weights.

I found that to begin with, working from 3/4 ROM, exploding up from the point where I felt most elasticity really helped to improve my strength all round for the pull up. After doing 10 sets of 5 of these, I moved on to 5 sets of 10 at full ROM with no problem.

Currently I can do around 20 reps at bodyweight without too much trouble.

This is just from my own experience however, there could be a better way, this certainly worked for me.


----------



## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

For hammer grip pull ups I used (as I don't do them anymore) jog down to my local park and use the monkey bars.

You can either have very varied rest periods in order to avoid dodgy looks from mums with their kids, or you can do what I did and not give a fook.

:thumbup1:


----------



## teewoods (Jul 16, 2004)

Its pointless going all the way down you want TUT and you wont be getting this if you go all the way down looking your elbows


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

teewoods said:


> Its pointless going all the way down you want TUT and you wont be getting this if you go all the way down looking your elbows


Yes exactly my view too, and also by stretching right out and semi relaxing into a stretch (which you have to do in order for it to be a stretch), you make it so that you have to re-engage the muscle when you start to pull up.

This makes the exercise harder but doesn't necessarily increase the adaptive stimulus, so effectively all it might achieve is to knock a rep or two off your total or cause you to have to add slightly less weight to the belt.


----------



## Nirk (Apr 18, 2010)

You say you need TUT but as you are hanging would that not mean your musles are under tension even at the bottom of the hang? I dont mean to hang there for ages just about 1/2 second.

Something like barbell bicep curls it is easy to completely lose tension on the muscle but as you are hanging and dont touch the floor on a pull/chin up the muslce is always under tension no?

I would guess that goiing all the way down works your back better but using partial ROM would work biceps better because they wouldnt lose tension at bottom of rep?


----------

