# HCG: mixing, storing, dosing.



## Mars

HOW TO MIX AND STORE hCG.

The water you need to reconstitute hCG is bacteriostatic water.

Calculating hCG:

There isn't a specific ratio of ml to IU. It depends on how you mix it. It's quite simple. If you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. Divide the same 5,000 IUs with 10 ml and the end result is 500 IUs per ml. Therefore, a large part depends on the concentration of hCG per ampoule or vial.

Mixing hCG:

Items needed: bacteriostatic water (not the water/solvent that comes with the kit) and some 5ml empty sterile vials or some syringes/slin pins.

1) Open hcg/amp with powder

2) Use a syringe to pull out 1ml of Bac Water and put in amp with hCG

3) It will instantly dissolve

4) Take syringe and add the mixed hCG solution to the sterile vial

5) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of hCG

6) Then draw 0.2ml (1000iu) and inject

7) put the rest in the refrigerator

8) Only use as much bac water as you need, too much may have a detrimental effect when the reconstituted hCG is stored.

9) For multi dose vials of powder (IE 5000iu) simply flip off the lid, draw up 2.5ml of bac water and squirt into the vial, then every 0.5ml or 50 on a 1ml slin pin will be 1000iu.

Addendum:

2) 1ml is a guideline, you could just as easily add 2ml then adjust 6) accordingly (IE: double, 0.4ml).

•The reason your discarding the amp of solvent is because its made for a single use.

•The most common side affect associated with hCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of Nolvadex with hCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and continues the stimulation of pituitary LH once hCG has been discontinued.

•hCG will last up to 6 weeks if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.

•You can keep the mixed hCG in vials or syringes in the fridge till use.

hCG DOSING:

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.

When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink

Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.

A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body's natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.

The above protocol is by Eric Potratz

Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.

This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.

Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.

An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.

I do have some scientific evidence that a 6000iu shot increased testosterone by 50% but did not alter the T > E ratio.

In fact some athletes have used hcg at 5000iu weekly while coming off cycle to successfully balance the T > E ratio.

I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that a single 10000iu shot desensitized the leydig cells for 96hrs.

*From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.*

Here is the science behind this protocol:

An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.

The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.

Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.

A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.

Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.

The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.

It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.

*hCG and gynecomastia*.

HCG can cause gyno, this is probably due to hCG's ability to increase the dynamics of the CYP450 enzyme, the aromatase enzyme is part of this family so it's possible to note a marked increase in aromatase activity, this should not prove to be a problem if you are already taking an AI on cycle for estrogen management but it is something that you need to be aware of.

hCG use and the P450 cytochrome:

*Firstly a little basic info on the P450 enzyme and why hCG use on cycle is extremely beneficial*:

The CYP450 (cytochrome P450) enzyme system is a key pathway for drug metabolism.

Many lipophilic drugs must undergo biotransformation to more hydrophilic compounds to be excreted from the body.

The majority of drugs undergo phase I metabolism (e.g., oxidation, reduction) by CYP450 enzymes,

this is especially indicative of anabolic androgenic steroids and endogenous steroid hormones.

We all know the importance of incorporating hCG into our cycle, this is just another good reason to use hCG.

In laymans terms hCG increases the dynamics of CYP450 which in turn increases the rate at which drugs can be metabolized,

which in turn increases protein dynamics.

Basically by the action of hCG on P450 dynamics it also increases pregnenolone which

is the precursor for all other steroid hormones and has many benefits,

one of which is that it serves to keep/restore a natural hormonal balance within this key pathway even if the HPTA is suppressed,

it also has energizing, anti-stress benefits, elevates mood through the raising of NDMA activity and reduces excess Cortisol,

so if we can increase this steroid hormone with the use of hCG, we should.

For other examples of hCG protocol please refer to the link below.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/13764-here-docs-protocol-hpta-recovery.html

Thanks to Patmuscle for this video showing mixing and subcutaneous injection technique.

http://www.medicalvideos.us/play.php?vid=689


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## MasterBlaster

Stick material... Nice find bro


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## Jasper

Put as a Sticky my brother Mods...

Much needed...

;-)


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## TH0R

Agreed, excellent post and should be a sticky

I personally struggled like fvck finding the right protocol for HCG ( :lol: just watched 24)


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## Big Dawg

Mars what is your recommended protocol for someone heavily shutdown to get their balls back up? A previous study you posted recommended 40IU x the no. of days you've been on, but it doesn't elaborate as to how many injections this should be divided into.


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## Mars

AlasTTTair said:


> Mars what is your recommended protocol for someone heavily shutdown to get their balls back up? A previous study you posted recommended 40IU x the no. of days you've been on, but it doesn't elaborate as to how many injections this should be divided into.


I believe in that example it worked out at 2400iu, i would round this up to 2500iu and use 1000iu mon, then 1000iu wed, then 500iu fri.

That sound like a lot, but weekly doses of 2500iu + have been used in many clinical studies with excellent results.

I'm in the process of researching priming with adex for a week before starting the HCG and then using adex for the remainder of the HCG cycle, as higher doses of HCG can cause gyno then i think adex could be a good addition not only for preventing gyno but also in improved recovery from just HCG alone, more research i my part needs to be done however.


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## Big Dawg

mars1960 said:


> I believe in that example it worked out at 2400iu, i would round this up to 2500iu and use 1000iu mon, then 1000iu wed, then 500iu fri.
> 
> That sound like a lot, but weekly doses of 2500iu + have been used in many clinical studies with excellent results.
> 
> I'm in the process of researching priming with adex for a week before starting the HCG and then using adex for the remainder of the HCG cycle, as higher doses of HCG can cause gyno then i think adex could be a good addition not only for preventing gyno but also in improved recovery from just HCG alone, more research i my part needs to be done however.


Cheers mate.

What would be your recommendation for someone who has been shutdown for 20 weeks (140 days)? This would work out at 5600IU.


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## Mars

AlasTTTair said:


> Cheers mate.
> 
> What would be your recommendation for someone who has been shutdown for 20 weeks (140 days)? This would work out at 5600IU.


How are you at the minute mate, are you on a cycle or running a PCT?

Have you finished a PCT? if so how long ago? have you had any blood tests done to see where you are at?


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## Big Dawg

mars1960 said:


> How are you at the minute mate, are you on a cycle or running a PCT?
> 
> Have you finished a PCT? if so how long ago? have you had any blood tests done to see where you are at?


Bloods done every 7-9 weeks. Currently on cycle. My plans changed and the cycle got extended, so just started HCG to recover the boys; will use it throughout in future to maintain, but I'm wondering what protocol you'd recommend to recover after 140 days.


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## mick_the_brick

Reps Mars.. Cracking post Bro.

Definate sticky material


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## Mars

AlasTTTair said:


> Bloods done every 7-9 weeks. Currently on cycle. My plans changed and the cycle got extended, so just started HCG to recover the boys; will use it throughout in future to maintain, but I'm wondering what protocol you'd recommend to recover after 140 days.


TBH mate i would carry on with what you are doing and using the HCG through out your cycle and up till PCT, you will need a strong PCT, RE: hacks 45 day PCT.

I will be perfectly honest mate, the chances of full recovery (if possible)can take as much as 12 months or more.

If you are going to come off cycle for a long time (at least 6mths) then an HCG protocol of 5000iu per wk for 4 months has been shown to almost treble sperm count.



mick_the_brick said:


> Reps Mars.. Cracking post Bro.
> 
> Definate sticky material


Cheers Mick and the rest of the guys.


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## Big Dawg

mars1960 said:


> TBH mate i would carry on with what you are doing and using the HCG through out your cycle and up till PCT, you will need a strong PCT, RE: hacks 45 day PCT.
> 
> I will be perfectly honest mate, the chances of full recovery (if possible)can take as much as 12 months or more.
> 
> If you are going to come off cycle for a long time (at least 6mths) then an HCG protocol of 5000iu per wk for 4 months has been shown to almost treble sperm count.
> 
> Cheers Mick and the rest of the guys.


Cheers mate. I know that recovery will be long, believe me I made an informed decision. Just started doing 500IU EOD and was planning on continuing this until balls are back up to size, then switching to 500IU E4-5D.


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## Mars

To the top.


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## Mars

ttt.


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## mick_the_brick

Bump


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## Mars

edit


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## skud

its your party. no probs.


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## Mars

Bumpity bump for acer.


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## Dezw

Very useful post.

HCG is excellent and people could be doing with adding it to their cycles.


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## Mars

TTT


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## YoungGun

Dave, i wouldnt use HCG that long mate, using until xmas could cause desensitisation issues IMO.

www.bacteriostaticwater.co.uk is what i use mate, very good service and fast delivery.

If i was you, i'd start using 500iu 3 x per week for the last month on cycle, then i'd do maybe 6 or 8 shots of 2500iu eod when you start PCT.

Run 20mg nolva also to protect the nuts, ovbiously mars knows more, but just thought i'd give my opinion mate. I used 6 shots in PCT and it worked well. :thumbup1:


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## Mars

dc55 said:


> Why is this not a sticky yet??? FFS!!
> 
> I had no clue as to what I was doing with HCG and this explains it all.
> 
> On another note...Mars. Yo know what situation im in, as in cycles done etc...and whats coming up. What would you say the best dose to use was??
> 
> I was thinking 500iu Mon, Wed, Fri. till I come off!!! which is xmas!! or just leave it for the blast??
> 
> where would you get the bac water and sterile vials from mate??
> 
> What would you use to inject and how....is it..pinch some ab fat and inject into the fat??
> 
> Thanks for the help


Sticky it should be, i need to do a bit more work on the dosing protocol though.

You can inject subQ with slin pins or IM with you're normal pins.

You can also add this in the same barrel as you're aas if you like.

In you're position i would run it at 500iu 3 x wk on you're blast.

It isn't neccessary to run it on you're cruise but if you feel you want to then i would go for 250iu 3 x wk this is just my opinion though Dave, as you know there are so many different protocols and it's just a matter of finding what works for you, but the above protocols are a good guide on where to start.


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## Craig660

Mars thread on mixing should be made a sticky i rekon,

Also once the hcg is in the barrel, what needles to people use to inject into the stomach as i have only used a insulin needle into the stomach before, thanks


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## Craig660

sorry was a bit to late with my post haha


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## YoungGun

You use insulin pins for HCG mate.


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## Craig660

Could you not use a blue and only go into the stomach fat a bit, as it would be easier than jabbin the stomch 5 times with a slin pin?


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## Craig660

anyone there,

sorry bot being impateint, its just mixed it up and got it sitting in front of me and want to do it before i go out , thanks


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## YoungGun

I think your confused mate.

The slin pins i use are 1ml, if you have an amp of HCG 5000iu, you then mix that with 1ml of bac water. Then i only have to inject 10iu (on the pin) to give me 500iu HCG.

Make sense?


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## Mikazagreat

Great post mars, had a question, how many weeks you think is the longest period of time u can still use HCG during a cycle without messing with ur nutz cells ?

I think it's also dose related, but for example 500 IU 8 weeks is that long, and if not how long u think ?


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## YoungGun

You can run Nolva at 20mg per day to protect nuts mate. This thread really should be stickied, where is mars lately anyway.


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## Craig660

yeah i think i am a little confused,

right so i have just mixed it up with 5ml bac water, so each ml is 1000 iu, so do i have to inject 50 iu to get 500iu ?

lol is confusing


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## YoungGun

Lol i'm getting confused now aswell.

Erm, right, if you mixed your 5ml water with 5000iu HCG then yes, 50iu(1/2 ml) will give you 500iu HCG.

Will need someone else to clarify that lol, i'm confused now, but i'm pretty sure that's right mate.


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## ryoken

YoungGun said:


> Lol i'm getting confused now aswell.
> 
> Erm, right, if you mixed your 5ml water with 5000iu HCG then yes, 50iu(1/2 ml) will give you 500iu HCG.
> 
> Will need someone else to clarify that lol, i'm confused now, but i'm pretty sure that's right mate.


yeah your right mate:thumb:


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## Craig660

lol cheers, got there in the end haha


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## hackskii

Mars, you got PM mate.

I will stick this just as soon as you are done with it.


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## stevo99

thanks for bumping, great read that and very helpful


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> Mars, you got PM mate.
> 
> I will stick this just as soon as you are done with it.


Thanks Scott,

Nearly done, just working on the P450 aspect.


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## hackskii

mars1960 said:


> Thanks Scott,
> 
> Nearly done, just working on the P450 aspect.


Nice, cant wait mate.

Look up grapefruit too...lol


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## swole patrol

mars1960 said:


> HOW TO MIX AND STORE HCG.
> 
> The water you need to reconstitute HCG is bacteriostatic water.
> 
> Calculating HCG:
> 
> There isn't a specific ratio of ml to IU. It depends on how you mix it. It's quite simple. If you dillute 5,000 IUs HCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. Divide the same 5,000 IUs with 10 ml and the end result is 500 IUs per ml. Therefore, a large part depends on the concentration of HCG per ampoule or vial.
> 
> Mixing HCG:
> 
> Items needed: bacteriostatic water (not the water/solvent that comes with the kit) and some 5ml empty sterile vials or some syringes/slin pins.
> 
> 1) Open hcg/amp with powder
> 
> 2) Use a syringe to pull out 1ml of Bac Water and put in amp with HCG
> 
> 3) It will instantly dissolve
> 
> 4) Then Use an empty 5ml vial (sterile and sealed) put 4ml of Bac water in the vial
> 
> 5) Take syringe and ad the mixed HCG solution to the 5ml vial
> 
> 6) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of HCG
> 
> 7) Than draw 1ml (1000iu) and inject
> 
> 8) put the rest in the refrigerator
> 
> 9) Only use as much bac water as you need, too much may have a detrimental effect when the reconstituted HCG is stored.
> 
> •The reason your discarding the amp of solvent is because its made for a single use.
> 
> •The most common side affect associated with HCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of clomid or Nolvadex with HCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and continues the stimulation of pituitary LH once HCG has been discontinued.
> 
> •HCG will last approximately 30 days if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.
> 
> •You can keep the mixed HCG in vials or syringes in the fridge till use.
> 
> HCG DOSING:
> 
> Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
> 
> When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink
> 
> Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of HCG.
> 
> A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu HCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of HCG to mimic the body's natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.
> 
> The above protocol is mainly set out for use on light cycles/cruise/TRT.
> 
> Higher doses (double) might want to be used on heavier cycles and cycles which incorporate deca/tren.
> 
> Another popular protocol is the blast method.
> 
> This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
> 
> Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
> 
> An example would be 2500iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.
> 
> I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that it took a single 10000iu shot to desensitize the leydig cells for 96hrs.
> 
> For other examples of HCG protocol please refer to the link below.
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/13764-here-docs-protocol-hpta-recovery.html
> 
> The above protocols are not written in stone, as always it's a matter of trial and error and finding what dosing protocol works best for you, the above is just to give you some idea of how HCG is used.


what does that mean?


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## Mars

swole patrol said:


> what does that mean?


Taking too much hCG can saturate the leydig cells in the testes, basically if you reach this point you are wasting your hCH as the cells no longer have the capacity to make use of the hCG you are injecting.


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## hackskii

mars1960 said:


> Taking too much hCG can saturate the leydig cells in the testes, basically if you reach this point you are wasting your hCH as the cells no longer have the capacity to make use of the hCG you are injecting.


But, with the use of nolva this wont be an issue perse.

Some feel it is from excess estrogen that causes this and nolva offers some protection to avoid desentization.


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> But, with the use of nolva this wont be an issue perse.
> 
> Some feel it is from excess estrogen that causes this and nolva offers some protection to avoid desentization.


Ahha, i thought you might say that  .

I'm yet to find anything that explains by what mechanism this would actually be the case.

I'm having trouble trying to figure out why nolva will stop the leydig cells from being saturated with overdoses of hCG.

Do you have anything you can link me to regarding this?

NB, not that we need to go anywhere near saturation point for our purposes anyway.

PPS, still trying to find a way of incorporating the P450 enzyme into the article and what specific relevances there would be.

Help!!!!!  .


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## hackskii

I think it has to do with estrogen, remember intratesticular testosterone is well above serum levels so there might be some kind of massive estrogen boost.

10,000iu shot of HCG alone would give me gyno in one day, in fact just 1,000iu shot gives me gyno symptoms next day.

No doubt there is some heavy aromitization.

Due to nolva being a SERM it may protect the leydig cells from the excess estrogen.

Remember as well estrogen is approx 200 times more supressive than testosterone to the HPTA.

Id suggest it is in fact estrogen doing all the bad stuff.

OOPSIE, just found it from an article on HCG by Swale:

Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism.

Here is his deal on the P450:

The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

I have that study on the nolva being protective to desentization somewhere on this site.


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## swole patrol

so never take hcg without nolva and only nolva?????


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## Mars

swole patrol said:


> so never take hcg without nolva and only nolva?????


No mate, thats not whats being said.

I can see you are having trouble interpreting the information you are reading, best not worry about it too much and just stick with the basics, learn a little bit at a time.


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## swole patrol

yeah man im tryin to follow along but its not kickin in. plus iv ben up for 2days so that could be a reason. lol


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## maccer

mars1960 said:


> If you are going to come off cycle for a long time (at least 6mths) then an HCG protocol of 5000iu per wk for 4 months has been shown to almost treble sperm count.


SO how would you recommend dosing for this purpose? Any other supplements you would recommend, any help on this appreciated


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## Mars

maccer said:


> SO how would you recommend dosing for this purpose? Any other supplements you would recommend, any help on this appreciated


Dosing for the reason you quoted would be to follow the the fertility protocol that it was intended for, thats 5000iu shot once weekly.

Bear in mind that there will be some aromatisation from the increase in testosterone so be aware of any possible gyno symptoms, should this arise, then adex taken at 0.5mg 2 x wk should be sufficient, some may suggest nolva but adex seems to have some kind of synergy along with HCG for this purpose, i can't remember the exact science behind it.


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## mds303

Brilliant info mate!


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## brownie

mars1960 said:


> TBH mate i would carry on with what you are doing and using the HCG through out your cycle and up till PCT, you will need a strong PCT, RE: hacks 45 day PCT.
> 
> I will be perfectly honest mate, the chances of full recovery (if possible)can take as much as 12 months or more.
> 
> If you are going to come off cycle for a long time (at least 6mths) then an HCG protocol of 5000iu per wk for 4 months has been shown to almost treble sperm count.
> 
> Cheers Mick and the rest of the guys.


4 months seems like a long time,.. will you not have desensitization to the testies?????

If that is true, that sperm will treble, then it makes sense for anyone coming off a cycle for family planning, this would be the protocol to follow.


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## sizar

shooting HCG in the stomach .. do i pinch FAT or just the skin and inject to it ? i wouldn 't get abscess from it would i ?


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## Totalrebuild

Sticky ...... !!!!


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## Totalrebuild

sizar said:


> shooting HCG in the stomach .. do i pinch FAT or just the skin and inject to it ? i wouldn 't get abscess from it would i ?


Sizar, its a subcutaneous injection (under the skin)

Just pinch the skin and any fat if you have any  Then pop the needle in at a 45 degree angle, draw back to ensure no blood and then inject.

Hope this helps mate


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## Mars

brownie said:


> 4 months seems like a long time,.. will you not have desensitization to the testies?????
> 
> If that is true, that sperm will treble, then it makes sense for anyone coming off a cycle for family planning, this would be the protocol to follow.


Not according to the endo's, there was a study, it showed that it took 10000iu to saturate/desensitize the leydig cells for 96hrs.

Cheers TR.


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## brownie

would you need to run Nolva at the very least if not an AI with the HCG for the 4 months...?


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## Mars

brownie said:


> would you need to run Nolva at the very least if not an AI with the HCG for the 4 months...?


post #50 mate.


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## hackskii

mars1960 said:


> Bear in mind that there will be some aromatisation from the increase in testosterone so be aware of any possible gyno symptoms, should this arise, then adex taken at 0.5mg 2 x wk should be sufficient, some may suggest nolva but adex seems to have some kind of synergy along with HCG for this purpose, i can't remember the exact science behind it.


Might take a bit more than .5mg adex twice a week with 5000iu jabs.

The nolva was a study showing that it is effective in protecting the leydig cells from desentization when on HCG.

Some feel it was from excess intratesticular estrogen that was the cause.



sizar said:


> shooting HCG in the stomach .. do i pinch FAT or just the skin and inject to it ? i wouldn 't get abscess from it would i ?


No worries of abcess, just clean a spot and pinch, then shoot slowly.

Too fast and it can squirt and damage the tissue leaving a bruise later, I have dont this many times being in a hurry, not good if you were to go on stage or go to the beach. :lol:

Oh, and the injectable winstrol shots will leave a bruise too...... :cursing:


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> Might take a bit more than .5mg adex twice a week with 5000iu jabs.
> 
> The nolva was a study showing that it is effective in protecting the leydig cells from desentization when on HCG.
> 
> Some feel it was from excess intratesticular estrogen that was the cause.


 Might do but best start low, i had a guy running 0.5mg adex 3 x wk on 500mg test e wk and he lost libido and got sore joints after 5wks.

You shouldn't be taking anywhere near enough HCG to saturate/desensitize the leydig cells though to warrant using nolva, would you not agree?

PS, made an addition to original post, what you think? still having trouble with how to fit the P450 in though lol.


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## hackskii

I think the lowest amount to do its job would be the best approach.

During cycle lower doses do the same thing as big doses once shut down.

Generally after the testicles are more sensitive to HCG, less is used to offer same or more stimulation.

Agreed though, over stimulation would not be a good thing.

An AI used during a cycle would be a good thing for aromitizable compounds.

p450 side chain enzyme?


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## Mars

hackskii said:


> I think the lowest amount to do its job would be the best approach.
> 
> During cycle lower doses do the same thing as big doses once shut down.
> 
> *Generally after the testicles are more sensitive to HCG, less is used to offer same or more stimulation.*
> 
> Agreed though, over stimulation would not be a good thing.
> 
> An AI used during a cycle would be a good thing for aromitizable compounds.
> 
> *p450 side chain enzyme*?


Sure, i read a medical article that if using HCG even when your pitutary is still secreting LH that the exogenous HCG will have no effect on this, in fact it will work alongside your natural LH production, so there can't really be any further suppression of HPTA function as it must still be signalling the pitutary.

Yep, still working on it, but it's not easy.


----------



## hackskii

Guys dont make HCG, pregnant women do at the tune to 1,000,000 iu's a day if you can believe that.

HCG in large doses can bring levels above normal ranges for testosterone.

It pretty much will cripple own LH production once on, I hear although I dont see why it shuts down pituitary pretty hard, no big deal though, clomid sparks that back to life rather quickly, within days actually.


----------



## hilly

question for you boys. i have been on cycle a long time and have some sporadic hcg use in there but none since xmas.

after my show i am doing a rebound course for 4-6 weeks then coming off.

would use suggest using 500iu 3 x per week during this rebound then into pct meds etc ot waiting and using a higher dose after the rebound?


----------



## hackskii

Well, hard to say really, 500iu twice a week I still get testicular atrophy.

You being on for 4 months with no HCG use probably wont get that much reaction from that little bit of HCG.

I cant say for sure mate, if it was me I would probably use some aromasin, with your cycle, then some nolva and do bigger shots of HCG.

That way your testicular responce to HCG proably be better, then you can taper it down for more maintenance dose.

Hell, even some HMG might be cool in with that.


----------



## hilly

im currently on letro and will be upto show.

then going to switch to aromasin during cycle and into pct. so was thinking maybe a couple of initial shots of 1500-2000iu to get the testes rolling forst couple of weeks of rebound. then taper down to 500iu 3 x per week then into pct meds.

arom asin continued and clomid100mg and nolva 40mg for 6 weeks then 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva for 2 weeks.

as ive been on for over a year total lol


----------



## mal

what stack are you going to run after your show?


----------



## hackskii

First thing first.

Nuts first

Pituitary second

But to get the nuts first you need them to respond.

Dead nuts = failure with low dose HCG.

Alive nuts = success for restoration of HPTA.

For the record, if your nuts are not alive during PCT, you will fail.........

Well failure would rebound after a year in worse case senario.

Failure would not be a cause if nuts are working, even slightly.

So, make the nuts work primarily.

Then focus on pituitary.

Simple.

No nuts, no recovery.....................Period.

Now for some interesting insight.

That GHRP-2 makes me have morning wood, and also a greasy face.

I can only say personally that some peptides during PCT would make a great synergy.

Cant say for certain, just from what I noticed.


----------



## hilly

ok so im thinking.

during my rebound of 6 weeks. initially 3 jabs of around 2000iu per day e3d. then 3 habs of 1000iu e3d then continue with 500iu 3 x per week if nuts have increased in size.

ghrp6 will be used during the rebound with a little growth and some test p eod. first 4 weeks will be 100mg eod then last 2 weeks will taper down to 75mg eod then 50mg eod.

at the end of the 6 weeks clomid and nolva will be ran as above.

also aromasin will be ran for the 6 weeks rebound plus pct at 25mg eod.

any adjustments scott/mars?


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> *Guys dont make HCG*, pregnant women do at the tune to 1,000,000 iu's a day if you can believe that.
> 
> HCG in large doses can bring levels above normal ranges for testosterone.
> 
> It pretty much will cripple own LH production once on, I hear although I dont see why it shuts down pituitary pretty hard, no big deal though, clomid sparks that back to life rather quickly, within days actually.


 :lol: , i know mate.

I'll try find that article that demonstrates exogenous HCG working alongside your own natural LH secretion, though i think it was a pay per view.

Iv'e just signed up for the Lancet so i'm sure it will be on there.


----------



## Mars

hilly said:


> ok so im thinking.
> 
> during my rebound of 6 weeks. initially 3 jabs of around 2000iu per day e3d. then 3 habs of 1000iu e3d then continue with 500iu 3 x per week if nuts have increased in size.
> 
> ghrp6 will be used during the rebound with a little growth and some test p eod. first 4 weeks will be 100mg eod then last 2 weeks will taper down to 75mg eod then 50mg eod.
> 
> at the end of the 6 weeks clomid and nolva will be ran as above.
> 
> also aromasin will be ran for the 6 weeks rebound plus pct at 25mg eod.
> 
> any adjustments scott/mars?


No adjustments from me, apart from i find aromasin works better with ED dosing, maybe scott might have some further suggestion but i like it.


----------



## hilly

cheers mars, so would you dose half a tab ed or a full one?


----------



## Mars

hilly said:


> cheers mars, so would you dose half a tab ed or a full one?


Hard to say for personal circumstances, 1/2 a tab ED may be enough to keep a good balance but with the HCG use you may need 1 tab ED, especially in those 1st 4wks.


----------



## hilly

cheers mate will dose it that way then.


----------



## hackskii

Id personally take the aromasin ED.

Also, I would add 1000iu vitamin E ED to that as it is said to help leydig cells.

Also vitamin D defiencies as noted by a Dr. Shippen tend to make HCG not work as well, and beings that Vitamin D defencies are common, no need to let that be something holding you back.

I just cant believe the night time erections I am getting from the GHRP-2 and CJC-1295, also getting an oily face.........I just dont get it but something is happening, even libido is up some.

My face was very greasy yesterday as I upped the dose.

Forgot to take my shot this morning and hell, face is dry today.

I cant put my finger on it but hell, I am not complaining:lol:


----------



## hilly

scott i take vit d3 at 5000iu daily. have not been ill since i started it yet every1 in house has been, best supp i have ever used. just received a years supply from the states as cheaper.


----------



## hackskii

I just ran out, I need to get more, gotta admit, one of the best things you can take, especially when you get older.


----------



## steeley

Apologies if this has already been asked, but does anyone know how long the HCG will keep when refrigerated in the standard sterile water that it comes with?

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Not long, a month with bacteriostatic water.


----------



## steeley

hackskii said:


> Not long, a month with bacteriostatic water.


48 hours?


----------



## hackskii

steeley said:


> 48 hours?


I really dont know, it is basicly saline.


----------



## Nutz01

I personaly would not store it with sterile water. I waited 2 weeks for my bac water, but it was worth the wait to know that i'm shooting good hcg, my nutz are almost normal size now which is good as ill be starting PCT in 12 days, which gives me time to get another 3 2500iu shots of hcg in.


----------



## Phil D

mars1960 said:


> Mixing HCG:
> 
> Items needed: bacteriostatic water (not the water/solvent that comes with the kit) and some 5ml empty sterile vials or some syringes/slin pins.
> 
> 1) Open hcg/amp with powder
> 
> 2) Use a syringe to pull out 1ml of Bac Water and put in amp with HCG
> 
> 3) It will instantly dissolve
> 
> *4) Then Use an empty 5ml vial (sterile and sealed) put 4ml of Bac water in the vial*
> 
> *
> 5) Take syringe and ad the mixed HCG solution to the 5ml vial*
> 
> 6) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of HCG
> 
> 7) Than draw 1ml (1000iu) and inject
> 
> 8) put the rest in the refrigerator
> 
> 9) Only use as much bac water as you need, too much may have a detrimental effect when the reconstituted HCG is stored.


If the HCG comes in an vial not an amp is this step necessary?


----------



## Mars

Phil D said:


> If the HCG comes in an vial not an amp is this step necessary?


No, just add the bacwater to your vial.


----------



## hackskii

I like the multiuse vials for HCG, makes the whole process much easier.


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> I like the multiuse vials for HCG, makes the whole process much easier.


Absolutely, just bought myself a box of the hygene, it's so much easier.


----------



## Huntingground

Mars, need some advice please. My HCG is Pregnyl and comes in amps with 1500iu and solvent. Am I OK to shoot the 1500 with TEST oil in the same barrel IM? I will sort out Bac water tomorrow. Thanks.


----------



## hackskii

Me personally I would use a a slin pin for that.


----------



## Huntingground

hackskii, shot it in right quad before you posted with TEST oil. I am ordering Bac water now.


----------



## Mars

Huntingground said:


> Mars, need some advice please. My HCG is Pregnyl and comes in amps with 1500iu and solvent. Am I OK to shoot the 1500 with TEST oil in the same barrel IM? I will sort out Bac water tomorrow. Thanks.


I do this quite often, it's great if you have thick oils too, just give it a good shake just before you pin and it goes in easy.


----------



## dan2004

*HCG will last approximately 30 days if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.*

Is that bang on accurate Mars?


----------



## Mars

dan2004 said:


> *HCG will last approximately 30 days if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.*
> 
> Is that bang on accurate Mars?


Nope, thats why i said approximately  .

Seriously, i was reading a scientific article the other day and HCG reconstituted with bacteriostatic water can be kept refrigerated for up to 6wks.


----------



## hackskii

I noticed first hand that after a month I used HCG and it still worked.

I had no choice as it was a bottle of 10,000iu novarel HCG.


----------



## Huntingground

Thanks guys. Injection site a little more sore than usual but I did use a different area of the quad.


----------



## Davy1436114690

great article, I have one question though..

Most of the time I see recommendations saying to use 250-500ius twice/three times a week or so but Mars mentioned that it would be better to take around 1000ius e5/7d. So I'm geting a bit confused.

Which option is better? Thanx


----------



## hackskii

Davy said:


> great article, I have one question though..
> 
> Most of the time I see recommendations saying to use 250-500ius twice/three times a week or so but Mars mentioned that it would be better to take around 1000ius e5/7d. So I'm geting a bit confused.
> 
> Which option is better? Thanx


It depends actually, shooting 1000iu's with no AI or gyno protection can give you symptoms of gyno.

Estrogen is terrribly supressive anyway, using an AI would be first and formost with aromitizable steroids.

Use the lowest dose that keeps and maintains testicular function is best course.


----------



## shawky

was going to run hcg injecting 1000iu mon, wed, fri. for 3 weeks

i'm coming off a cycle of dbol 50mg a day for 6 week.400mg of tren e split into two jabs a week and 800mg of sus split into two jabs a week for 10 week.

also 20mgNolvadex daily. [50mg Clomid daily

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily

anyone got any advice about this.cheers lads.


----------



## stonecoldzero

shawky said:


> was going to run hcg injecting 1000iu mon, wed, fri. for 3 weeks
> 
> i'm coming off a cycle of dbol 50mg a day for 6 week.400mg of tren e split into two jabs a week and 800mg of sus split into two jabs a week for 10 week.
> 
> also 20mgNolvadex daily. [50mg Clomid daily
> 
> Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily
> 
> anyone got any advice about this.cheers lads.


Not that I'm too lazy to tell you, or even trying to cause offense, BUT ......

perhaps you might want to try reading THIS THREAD!


----------



## shawky

stonecoldzero said:


> Not that I'm too lazy to tell you, or even trying to cause offense, BUT ......
> 
> perhaps you might want to try reading THIS THREAD!


i have put a thread up before about this.this has been put together by a doctor for athletes. who has had 100% succsess,some may have to run it twice.i was just wondering if anyone has heard of this.and their thoughts on it.it seems if no one has heard or tried this then its bull.


----------



## shadow23

mars u legand awsome thread like others have said this needs to be a sticky!


----------



## Huntingground

Mods, please make this a sticky!!


----------



## Mars

ruaidhri said:


> can i load up my slin pins with hcg and put them in the freezer? then just thaw a slin pin every time i need one?


Yes mate, load as many as you like, put them in a freezer/food bag and freeze, you can then thaw and use as needed.


----------



## cellmore

please could we make this thread into a sticky Mods? Cheers


----------



## Mars

ruaidhri said:


> thanks mars and thanks for the thread too
> 
> how long will it take to thaw roughly? and i think i'll be hiding them in a bag of peas or something so might flatmates don't find them lol


Don't know exactly mate, iv'e always just taken one out and stuck it in the fridge the night before.


----------



## hackskii

Just hold it in your hand for a couple of minutes, it will thaw very fast.

*Thread is now stuck.................*


----------



## 18351

great post! Reps


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> Just hold it in your hand for a couple of minutes, it will thaw very fast.
> 
> *Thread is now stuck.................*


Cheers Scott, just got those last few ammendents in just in time.


----------



## petes

Been on cycle about 3 months now, using HCG throughout, and plan on doing another month+ depending on blood results, (will have back this week) I am using 500iu every 4 days subq. Feeling great, hardly any shrinkage, cycle going great. Am a little concerned as regards desensitisation on my protocol. What are your thoughts guys?


----------



## Mars

petes said:


> Been on cycle about 3 months now, using HCG throughout, and plan on doing another month+ depending on blood results, (will have back this week) I am using 500iu every 4 days subq. Feeling great, hardly any shrinkage, cycle going great. Am a little concerned as regards desensitisation on my protocol. What are your thoughts guys?


Desensitization generally occurs with high doses and still only last for a short period of time before the receptors become resensitized again.

500iu E4D even over a long period shouldn't cause any problems, however you could try to increase the duration between shots and use the once weekly or E5D protocol if you are going to use hCG for long periods.


----------



## hackskii

That isn't going to work mate.

Pregnyl comes in 1500iu as well.


----------



## hackskii

After reconsititution it must be kept refrigerated.

It is up to you to figure that all out, sorry but I cant do that for you.


----------



## Musashi

hackskii said:


> *Thread is now stuck.................*


Cool thanks Scott :beer:

Top thread Mars. :thumbup1:


----------



## Wes2009

buy your self a portable fridge or cool box and stick it in the car or van, ya room under the bed wherever. it will keep it cool and out the way????


----------



## Conscript

Wes2009 said:


> *buy your self a portable fridge* or cool box and stick it in the car or van, ya room under the bed wherever. it will keep it cool and out the way????


I just have :thumbup1: and most importantly it has a locking mechanism... :whistling:

Top thread Mars, thanks


----------



## Mars

G-fresh said:


> I just have :thumbup1: and most importantly it has a locking mechanism... :whistling:
> 
> Top thread Mars, thanks


Cheers mate.

Took a while but it was worth it.


----------



## wod

I inject hcg into my muscle, bit painful though lol. If i was to run HCG through a cycle, im guessing id only stop taking it say 2-3weeks after cycle to be safe?


----------



## hackskii

You mean while the gear clears?

I would use it all the way right up to PCT.


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> You mean while the gear clears?
> 
> I would use it all the way right up to PCT.


Yep, thats what i recommend.

It will be a while before natural LH production restarts even with the use of clomid.


----------



## cecil_sensation

just found this.

didnt no much on hcg, glad i found this 

great thread


----------



## Mars

Yes you could do, unconstituted it should be stored between 2-15c, once reconstituted it should be stored between 2-8c.


----------



## Patmuscle

mars maybe u can put this awesome vid in ur begin post????

http://www.medicalvideos.us/play.php?vid=689


----------



## Mars

Done and credited thanks.


----------



## hackskii

I have had mine at room temp for some time probably about 2 years and I have noticed no diffrence in use.

I had probably 80iu sent to me and over the last 2 years perhaps even longer I have always had good luck with it.

but it is in a cool dry place and the house does not get over about 70 degrees.


----------



## Andy Dee

hackskii said:


> I have had mine at room temp for some time probably about 2 years and I have noticed no diffrence in use.
> 
> I had probably 80iu sent to me and over the last 2 years perhaps even longer I have always had good luck with it.
> 
> but it is in a cool dry place and the house does not get over about 70 degrees.


im assuming your taking about this in its powder form?


----------



## hackskii

Of course, I know it is good as when I use it with my gear I get gyno almost every time.

In fact I have the chinese stuff that comes in multiuse vials, they are vacummed.

I actually like it better than the pregnyl, not only for convience but I acutally think it is stronger.


----------



## cyclops_45

Referring to the post from Mars and Ruaidhri;

So it's okay to *freeze *reconstituted HCG then (using bac water) ? will it then store for longer than the recommended 'one month' ?


----------



## Mars

cyclops_45 said:


> Referring to the post from Mars and Ruaidhri;
> 
> So it's okay to *freeze *reconstituted HCG then (using bac water) ? will it then store for longer than the recommended 'one month' ?


Yes it's ok and you can use just the sterile water it comes with if you freeze individual slin pins and you can store it much longer than a month.


----------



## xpower

mars1960 said:


> Yes it's ok and you can use just the sterile water it comes with if you freeze individual slin pins and you can store it much longer than a month.


 This is how I do it,works well


----------



## cyclops_45

mars1960 said:


> Yes it's ok and you can use just the sterile water it comes with if you freeze individual slin pins and you can store it much longer than a month.


thats going to save wasting the last of my 5000 iu amps. I never need that much to keep the nads in check, so using 5000 ius over 4 weeks at least a 1/4 gets thrown away. I'll start drawing a batch up in to slin pins from now on.


----------



## Rottee

I have just ran 12 weeks 500mg test a week 400 tren 800 eq havent used any HCG am on cruise now and will cruise for 8 weeks then back to blast will use HCG on rest of cycle any advice what doses to use on cruise then next blast balls are very small. Ill be running 250mg test a week on cruise


----------



## Bad Alan

If you have run HCG through your cycle (short ester cycle) how would you run it into PCT:- should I stop it the same week as the Test and then take over with nolva/proviron PCT


----------



## Mars

Bad Alan said:


> If you have run HCG through your cycle (short ester cycle) how would you run it into PCT:- should I stop it the same week as the Test and then take over with nolva/proviron PCT


My advice is to run the hCG until the start of PCT, which generally should involve the use of nolva and clomid, proviron can make a sensible addition as anecedotal evidence shows that it can help with mood/libido in many cases.


----------



## Bad Alan

Thanks for the advice, I will do just that. Do you advocate the use of HCG throughout cycle as a better alternative rather than a kickstart for the PCT?

BA


----------



## hackskii

Bad Alan said:


> Thanks for the advice, I will do just that. Do you advocate the use of HCG throughout cycle as a better alternative rather than a kickstart for the PCT?
> 
> BA


Totally!!!

I notice that if you keep the testicles alive during the cycle it takes much less than to bring them back from the dead.


----------



## GeordieSteve

Do you need to aspirate when doing sub Q injections to the stomach? I'm currently running 4 weeks dbol, 12 weeks eq (500mg) and 14 weeks test (625mg)... will 250iu on Monday, Wednesday and Friday do me alright through my cycle?


----------



## hackskii

No need to asperate with sub-Q

I use 500iu twice a week myself.

A mild AI would not be a bad idea.......


----------



## GeordieSteve

Top man, reps. Do you get any sides with 500 shots? I've got adex to hand so should be fine


----------



## hackskii

No sides at all other than keeping and maintaining testicular function, which will make recovery far far easier.

The idea of the AI is to keep estrogen in check and allow for an easier recovery as estrogen is approx 200 times more supressive than testosterone.


----------



## Bad Alan

Top knowledge and proactive mods make this site very easy to gain information from.

Many thanks!!


----------



## Burner

I have used HCG before and understand the doses. Just got some HuCoG 5000 iu and whats puzzling me is it says on the packet that its 'for intramuscular injection only'. Is this right? Everyone says you inject it in your fat with insulin needle. Is this the wrong stuff? It looks right, Solution + Freeze dried. Is this intramuscular business in reference to other uses of the drug?


----------



## hackskii

Burner said:


> I have used HCG before and understand the doses. Just got some HuCoG 5000 iu and whats puzzling me is it says on the packet that its 'for intramuscular injection only'. Is this right? Everyone says you inject it in your fat with insulin needle. Is this the wrong stuff? It looks right, Solution + Freeze dried. Is this intramuscular business in reference to other uses of the drug?


Either or mate, its the same stuff, you can shoot sub-q or IM just take your pick.


----------



## Burner

cheers hacksii :thumb:

One last thing - can I add my melanotan to my HCG needle to save on needles or is this not advised?


----------



## Guest

This may be a dumb question but I've just picked 10,000iu HCG but it has come in a liquid form rather than freeze dried.

Never seen this before. I'm assuming it's ok to mix in the same was as usual, Bac water etc?


----------



## Mars

Tren Beast said:


> This may be a dumb question but I've just picked 10,000iu HCG but it has come in a liquid form rather than freeze dried.
> 
> Never seen this before. I'm assuming it's ok to mix in the same was as usual, Bac water etc?


Iv'e never seen this stuff before, but i know it's available, do you mean it's already been reconstituted? if so it's ready to use.


----------



## Guest

mars1960 said:


> Iv'e never seen this stuff before, but i know it's available, do you mean it's already been reconstituted? if so it's ready to use.


It looks that way, it looks like there's roughly 0.5ml of liquid and there's no amp with it.

I'm on my way home but I'll post some pics for all to see when I get back.


----------



## Guest




----------



## Cluk89

ive got an amp of 5000iu pregnyl at home and the powder looks like its gone a bit hard, as in its just a block of powder, ive shaken the amp about and its broken up a bit, is this normal or has the HCG gone funny?


----------



## Mars

If it looks like a hard pill in the bottom all it means is that it has actually been stored correctly.


----------



## Cluk89

mars1960 said:


> If it looks like a hard pill in the bottom all it means is that it has actually been stored correctly.


ah ok, thats good then, thanks!


----------



## Cluk89

Tren Beast said:


> It looks that way, it looks like there's roughly 0.5ml of liquid and there's no amp with it.
> 
> I'm on my way home but I'll post some pics for all to see when I get back.


It says 10000iu/ml on the box in that picture, so i think its 1ml mate not 0.5ml


----------



## Andrewgenic

Can I just check im doing everything right here? I have mixed my hcg as per instructions on the first page of this sticky so I now have 5000iu's ready to shoot. Yesterday I half filled a 0.5ml slin syringe with it, so is this 250iu? I am planning on jabbing this 3 times p/w.


----------



## hackskii

Andrewgenic said:


> Can I just check im doing everything right here? I have mixed my hcg as per instructions on the first page of this sticky so I now have 5000iu's ready to shoot. Yesterday I half filled a 0.5ml slin syringe with it, so is this 250iu? I am planning on jabbing this 3 times p/w.


 Did you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater?

If so then the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml.


----------



## Andrewgenic

hackskii said:


> Did you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater?
> 
> If so then the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml.


Yes I did. What you have said above pretty well answers my question. Thankyou Hackskii


----------



## bayman

Tren Beast said:


> View attachment 54990
> View attachment 54993


Anyone know if this can be diluted with Bac water for ease of dosing?


----------



## Sk1nny

This is great information, thanks for taking the time guys.

A couple of questions I have... Do you guys warm the soution before injection? I imagine doing it straight from the fridge might be asking for pip? Obviously once it's in your body it's going to quickly rise to body temperature so am I right to assume that heating (only the amount about to be injected) up to body temperature it wouldn't do the solution too any harm? As long as injected straight away of course

Also I have been blast cruising since oct 2010 more blast than cruise. I have seven weeks of my current blast left and have 15000 iu hcg. I was going to blast 5000iu in 1 then 1000iu once weekly for 10 weeks then start pct so the last 1000iu would be 3 weeks after last test e jab and the same day as starting clomid and nolva. Does this sound ok or what should I change?


----------



## Mars

Sk1nny said:


> This is great information, thanks for taking the time guys.
> 
> A couple of questions I have... Do you guys warm the soution before injection? I imagine doing it straight from the fridge might be asking for pip? Obviously once it's in your body it's going to quickly rise to body temperature so am I right to assume that heating (only the amount about to be injected) up to body temperature it wouldn't do the solution too any harm? As long as injected straight away of course
> 
> Also I have been blast cruising since oct 2010 more blast than cruise. I have seven weeks of my current blast left and have 15000 iu hcg. I was going to blast 5000iu in 1 then 1000iu once weekly for 10 weeks then start pct so the last 1000iu would be 3 weeks after last test e jab and the same day as starting clomid and nolva. Does this sound ok or what should I change?


Warming the syringe in your hands for 20 secs is enough to bring the solution up to body temp.

Unless your testes have serious atrophy i wouldn't bother with the one shot of 5000iu, just go for the 10wks @ 1000iu per week.


----------



## Sk1nny

Thanks mars, much appreciate your input. So last hcg jab on day pct starts is good? Or run it another week?


----------



## Mars

Either TBH, you can run it a week into PCT if you like but your testes should be firing ok after 10wks mate.


----------



## Sk1nny

Cheers mate, I'll be using .5mg Anastrozole mon wed fri so don't think I will need nolva but have it just incase. When should I stop the Anastrozole in your opinion?


----------



## Mars

I always advise to run the AI up till PCT, you can reduce the does though so in the 2nd week after last jab drop it to 2 x wk and 1 x in the last week before PCT.


----------



## Sk1nny

Top advice thanks mate. Everyone knows I ****ed up last time I tried to come off with no pct I'm not so cocky this time and want to get it right and have a good break


----------



## hackskii

I like to run the HCG first week of PCT where there is no influence from androgens or estrogen.


----------



## Sk1nny

Thanks hacksii, that's what I had in mind to do. What about the Anastrozole also for first week or is this redundant because of the nolva and clomid?


----------



## hackskii

Sk1nny said:


> Thanks hacksii, that's what I had in mind to do. What about the Anastrozole also for first week or is this redundant because of the nolva and clomid?


Well, there are those that will load up the thread with studies but here is my take on the whole thing.

After the gear clears and if you used an AI during and lower the dose into PCT, estrogen wont be a problem anyway.

Lowering estrogen too low may affect libiod, and mood, so no need really.

Once your testosterone levels are low, you wont have much aromitization anyway.

Save it for your next cycle.


----------



## Sk1nny

Spot on cheers mate


----------



## Sk1nny

Surprised how effective hcg is and I didn't realise how much shrinkage my poor balls had gone through until 24 hours after 1000iu hcg and they have doubled in size. Well impressed I'll never cycle without it again


----------



## BigBadWolf

Is HCG safe to use for 10 weeks once mixed with bacteriostatic water if kept in the fridge?


----------



## Mars

This is debatable but i have heard of guys using reconstituted hCG thats been stored that long without problems.

I advise 6wks max after reconstituting.

So you best option would be to draw up half of it into slin pins and freeze them till needed.


----------



## BigBadWolf

Thanks mars. I was asking because I only have the 10000iu vials of HCG right now. I was planning on mixing it with 10ml of BAC water so every half ml would be 500iu. It would take me 10 weeks to get through that. After freezing do you leave it to thaw out naturally a day before the shot?


----------



## Mars

BigBadWolf said:


> Thanks mars. I was asking because I only have the 10000iu vials of HCG right now. I was planning on mixing it with 10ml of BAC water so every half ml would be 500iu. It would take me 10 weeks to get through that. After freezing do you leave it to thaw out naturally a day before the shot?


Yes, you can take it out of the freezer and put it in the fridge the night before, or you can just take it out of the freezer and warm it in your hand for a few minutes, it soon thaws.


----------



## hackskii

Half a ml is alot to sub-q, that much water probably isnt needed.


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> Half a ml is alot to sub-q, that much water probably isnt needed.


Spotted that now, it would be much better to use only 5ml of bacwater and Sub Q 0.25ml.


----------



## garethmcl

who runs 1000iu Ed then i have seen some post that on the boards, is this amount safe?


----------



## Mars

garethmcl said:


> who runs 1000iu Ed then i have seen some post that on the boards, is this amount safe?


Why anyone would run 1000iu ED is beyond me.


----------



## freeline

Mars, what is your opinion on repeat freeze thawing after reconstitution? Freeze-thaw-use-freeze-repeat when necessary? I've read conflicting reports of use, I used the method one cycle and can say I never noticed any detrimental effects in terms of testicular size. But I have also read on here that it can damage the HCG and maybe rendered useless. Do you feel that this is the case or perhaps the potency may be reduced.

I know that method wasn't ideal but I could hide a sterile vial on the freezer easily from the missus, she's a greedy wench so she knows what goes in an out of the fridge.


----------



## Mars

freeline said:


> Mars, what is your opinion on repeat freeze thawing after reconstitution? Freeze-thaw-use-freeze-repeat when necessary? I've read conflicting reports of use, I used the method one cycle and can say I never noticed any detrimental effects in terms of testicular size. But I have also read on here that it can damage the HCG and maybe rendered useless. Do you feel that this is the case or perhaps the potency may be reduced.
> 
> I know that method wasn't ideal but I could hide a sterile vial on the freezer easily from the missus, she's a greedy wench so she knows what goes in an out of the fridge.


I don't think it's good idea and TBH i see no need to do it, you can just as easily store it in slin pins and take one out when you need it, i don't know for sure but i would hazard a guess that repeated freezing/thawing may possibly have a detrimental effect.


----------



## matt88

Is www.bacteriostaticwater.co.uk still good to get sterile empty vials from?


----------



## matt88

Anyone?


----------



## biggzz

matt88 said:


> Anyone?


 gtg..they seem fine 2 me. recieved within 3 days of order.. from them.. :thumbup1:


----------



## tyz123

when you get hcg of a source do they usually give you the empty sterile vial ?


----------



## Mars

tyz123 said:


> when you get hcg of a source do they usually give you the empty sterile vial ?


It's highly unlikely but TBH there really is no need as the vial the powder comes in can be used and if it's amps you can mix and store in slin pins.


----------



## tyz123

How long does hcg start to work ? Well testicle siZe bigger ?


----------



## Mars

It's impossible to say, it depends on the individual and the amount of atrophy.


----------



## tyz123

mars1960 said:


> It's impossible to say, it depends on the individual and the amount of atrophy.


I shot 4000iu earlyer well 20 hours ago an still dont really see a change bro and thanks for your help


----------



## hackskii

tyz123 said:


> How long does hcg start to work ? Well testicle siZe bigger ?


I remember reading 17 hours.

My bro felt better next day after a crash when he shot some HCG.


----------



## skinso

Just got some hcg by alpha and its to be stored at around 5/10 degrees after mixing so no refrigeration necessary


----------



## Mars

All reconstituted hCG should be refrigerated, pharmaceutical guidelines (i worked in the industry) say 2-8c thats fridge temperature.


----------



## tyz123

Been running hcg 4000iu a week because i crashed and started to get gyno lumps im running 40mg nolva ed should i chuck in some clomid ? also dropping the dose to 2000iu next week to prevent this


----------



## baggsy1436114680

hi mars i have a question about this phase

4) Take syringe and add the mixed hCG solution to the sterile vial

5) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of hCG

6) Then draw 0.2ml (1000iu) and inject

when drawing out 0.2ml with a slin pin it is hard especially once you get to when you only have 0.4 ml left is there any way around this or a trick to make getting the last few mls out of the vial easier??


----------



## hackskii

Yah, add a bit more bac water to that so you what you lose will be at a smaller concentration.


----------



## need2bodybuild

I'm still struggling to understand the conversion of iu's to ml's. You say if you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. What would you have if you mixed 2ml of bac water with 5000 iu of powder? I know you'd have 2500iu's/1ml but how would you dose 1000iu's?

I'm so confused, maths was never my strong point, forgive me..


----------



## Mars

need2bodybuild said:


> I'm still struggling to understand the conversion of iu's to ml's. You say if you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. What would you have if you mixed 2ml of bac water with 5000 iu of powder? I know you'd have 2500iu's/1ml but how would you dose 1000iu's?
> 
> I'm so confused, maths was never my strong point, forgive me..


Make life easy for yourself and don't use bacwater in amounts that aren't easily divisable.

So basically do what i do and just add 2.5ml of bacwater to 5000iu.


----------



## need2bodybuild

mars1960 said:


> Make life easy for yourself and don't use bacwater in amounts that aren't easily divisable.
> 
> So basically do what i do and just add 2.5ml of bacwater to 5000iu.


Cheers Mars.


----------



## need2bodybuild

Would running hcg for around 18-20 weeks be o.k?


----------



## Conscript

need2bodybuild said:


> Would running hcg for around 18-20 weeks be o.k?


I'm coming on 9 months on (once weekly) and everything seems as it should.


----------



## hackskii

I know an endo doc that cycles his TRT dudes off HCG.

I dont think 9 months would be the way to go.

Perhaps naltrexone might be a better option for test only cycles along with an AI for estrogen management.


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> I know an endo doc that cycles his TRT dudes off HCG.
> 
> I dont think 9 months would be the way to go.
> 
> Perhaps naltrexone might be a better option for test only cycles along with an AI for estrogen management.


There are some endos that do realise the benefits of hCG therapy over TRT (IE: long term use) without any problems, the doses used are between 500-1000iu weekly.

There have been some case studies that show possible damage to the testicles from long term hCG use but these are in higher dose of 5000iu + weekly.

Dr Crisler would prefer doses up to a maximum of 500iu weekly so as not to cause over stumulation of testicular aromatase and leydig cell desensitization and possibly inducing primary hypogonadism.

Although there is no clinical evidence that long term use of up to 1000iu PW will induce primary hypogonadism, if 500iu PW works then 500iu is what should be used in the long term.


----------



## need2bodybuild

mars1960 said:


> There are some endos that do realise the benefits of hCG therapy over TRT (IE: long term use) without any problems, the doses used are between 500-1000iu weekly.
> 
> There have been some case studies that show possible damage to the testicles from long term hCG use but these are in higher dose of 5000iu + weekly.
> 
> Dr Crisler would prefer doses up to a maximum of 500iu weekly so as not to cause over stumulation of testicular aromatase and leydig cell desensitization and possibly inducing primary hypogonadism.
> 
> Although there is no clinical evidence that long term use of up to 1000iu PW will induce primary hypogonadism, if 500iu PW works then 500iu is what should be used in the long term.


So do you think 18 weeks would be o.k at 1000iu's/week or should i stick with 500iu for that duration?


----------



## Mars

need2bodybuild said:


> So do you think 18 weeks would be o.k at 1000iu's/week or should i stick with 500iu for that duration?


Myself and many of my clients use between 500-1000iu PW, 500iu PW may be sufficient to keep the testes function in your case, so it's worth trying that first, if you start to notice any atrophy on that dose then raise it to 750iu PW. Concurrent use of low dose aromasin or adex may be required and is, IMO, beneficial on any cycle using aromatizable compounds whether using hCG or not.


----------



## need2bodybuild

mars1960 said:


> Myself and many of my clients use between 500-1000iu PW, 500iu PW may be sufficient to keep the testes function in your case, so it's worth trying that first, if you start to notice any atrophy on that dose then raise it to 750iu PW. Concurrent use of low dose aromasin or adex may be required and is, IMO, beneficial on any cycle using aromatizable compounds whether using hCG or not.


O.k, thanks.

I will be using arimidex as my estrogen is higher than my testosterone naturally, so i can imagine trouble with gyno..


----------



## need2bodybuild

Does hcg keep it's potency if it's frozen once reconstitued or is that a myth?

I want to buy the 5000iu vials and squirt 2.5ml bac water in like you stated, my problem is that if i'm dosing it at 500iu/week, i'd have 10 shots from one vial (10 weeks) and in the fridge it's only good for 6 weeks?


----------



## hackskii

If it was 1000iu a week you will be fine, and that is about the stimulation you would need during a cycle anyway.


----------



## need2bodybuild

hackskii said:


> If it was 1000iu a week you will be fine, and that is about the stimulation you would need during a cycle anyway.


I did want to start with 500iu to minimize chances of gyno. You think 1000iu would be o.k seeing as i'm running arimidex at .25mg every third day or maybe .5mg??


----------



## Mars

need2bodybuild said:


> Does hcg keep it's potency if it's frozen once reconstitued or is that a myth?
> 
> I want to buy the 5000iu vials and squirt 2.5ml bac water in like you stated, my problem is that if i'm dosing it at 500iu/week, i'd have 10 shots from one vial (10 weeks) and in the fridge it's only good for 6 weeks?


Store it in slins and freeze it till needed, it will be fine.



need2bodybuild said:


> I did want to start with 500iu to minimize chances of gyno. You think 1000iu would be o.k seeing as i'm running arimidex at .25mg every third day or maybe .5mg??


Yes it would be fine.


----------



## Ragingagain

ok guys, ive been through this whole post and am even more confused with all these mixed answers...........

whats a standard dose to take for a 12 week test cycle? say starting 3 weeks before end of cycle? please can u help me


----------



## skinso

I've just used the alpha pharma hcg, it says to keep a around 3-7 degrees when mixed, there is a indicator on the box that turns green if the temp is right


----------



## Mars

andy gibbs said:


> ok guys, ive been through this whole post and am even more confused with all these mixed answers...........
> 
> whats a standard dose to take for a 12 week test cycle? say starting 3 weeks before end of cycle? please can u help me


You wouldn't ideally start 3wks before end of cycle.

The point is to keep the testes functioning whilst on cycle so you would start hCG around wk3 (when endogenous LH production stops) and the normal dose is 1000iu PW.

If for some reason you would rather let your testicular function shut down before doing anything about it then you could follow the 5000iu for 4wks protocol as mentioned in the sticky.


----------



## Ragingagain

mars1960 said:


> You wouldn't ideally start 3wks before end of cycle.
> 
> The point is to keep the testes functioning whilst on cycle so you would start hCG around wk3 (when endogenous LH production stops) and the normal dose is 1000iu PW.
> 
> If for some reason you would rather let your testicular function shut down before doing anything about it then you could follow the 5000iu for 4wks protocol as mentioned in the sticky.


ok so ill start at week 3 thats fine... from what i read there will be no desensitization?........also do i need to split it into a few shots to make 1000iu? and will arimidex 0.5 e3d be enough to avoid gyno....and i will also be taking ghrp6 so is this cool....?

thanks


----------



## 12 gauge

mars1960 said:


> If for some reason you would rather let your testicular function shut down before doing anything about it then you could follow the 5000iu for 4wks protocol as mentioned in the sticky.


How would the 5000iu a week be administered? Would you do 5 1000iu shots a week or what? Would this need to be started a day after last shot of test and would you take nolva/clomid alongside the hcg?


----------



## Conscript

12 gauge said:


> How would the 5000iu a week be administered? Would you do 5 1000iu shots a week or what? Would this need to be started a day after last shot of test and would you take nolva/clomid alongside the hcg?





> Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
> 
> This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
> 
> Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
> 
> An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.


----------



## 12 gauge

Thanks doc, I knew the answer was somewhere in that article, I must have missed it.

I would need to run 20mg of nolva alongside the hcg to prevent gyno,correct? Then commence clomid and continue with the nolva at the end of the 4 weeks of hcg?


----------



## hackskii

When shut down I use 2500 EOD x 8 and run nolva @ 20mg ED along with clomid @ 100mg ED for 45 days with the nolva and 30 days with the clomid.


----------



## need2bodybuild

Is it advisable to use nolva or an ai when using hcg without aromatizing steroids, for example i'm going to use var at 50mg for 8 weeks and have some hcg lying about and was going to use 500iu/week. Should i use 20mg nolva ed aswell to be safe from gyno?

Cheers.


----------



## hackskii

need2bodybuild said:


> Is it advisable to use nolva or an ai when using hcg without aromatizing steroids, for example i'm going to use var at 50mg for 8 weeks and have some hcg lying about and was going to use 500iu/week. Should i use 20mg nolva ed aswell to be safe from gyno?
> 
> Cheers.


Depends on the dose.

500iu twice a week you probably wont have a problem.

1000iu one shot, yah, one may get gyno symptoms even next day.


----------



## need2bodybuild

hackskii said:


> Depends on the dose.
> 
> 500iu twice a week you probably wont have a problem.
> 
> 1000iu one shot, yah, one may get gyno symptoms even next day.


I was thinking 500iu once weekly, or do you think i should do that twice weekly?

Cheers.


----------



## hackskii

Well, probably not on a var cycle, unless it is something over lets say 75mg ED.

But, the HCG will keep natty test levels up so not only will it help you feel better, you probably will get a better bang for your buck and keep libido where it should be.


----------



## need2bodybuild

hackskii said:


> Well, probably not on a var cycle, unless it is something over lets say 75mg ED.
> 
> But, the HCG will keep natty test levels up so not only will it help you feel better, you probably will get a better bang for your buck and keep libido where it should be.


O.k mate, i wont bother with the nolva untill pct then and i'll just stick with 500iu hcg once per week.

Cheers.


----------



## LeBigMac

Doing a bucket load of research for my first Test E only cycle. HCG made simple!! between you and hacks I think I am finally understanding how to build a good cycle and keep my gains.

Just wanted to say thanks.


----------



## Ragingagain

how long will the hcg last if i mix it with the solvent and freeze in the barrels...... also im on week 5 of my cycle my nuts have defo shrunk, i was thinking 500iu per week, how long before they should regain size? or i realise the dose might be low, reason being i am gyno prone and 1000iu might be too much,,,im already using adex.

thanks


----------



## xpower

I'm prone to gyno,but 1000iu doesn't flare it up for me.

I've frozen 9x500iu using the solvent & it's still effective


----------



## Ragingagain

so shall i just start 1000 or see first if 500 is enough? also did u mix all of the solvent?

thanks


----------



## xpower

How heavy is your cycle?

If 500 keeps things firing the no need for more.

750 is a nice in between number too


----------



## Ragingagain

its my first... sus 500. reason i ask is one i mix and freeze the slins no going back lol.... might do 750.

thanks


----------



## Ragingagain

how long before it works?


----------



## Nocarbs

So if I have a 2000iu amp of HCG I would mix that with 2ml of water, then how much do I draw back using an insulin needle each time whilst on cycle to maintain as close to as possible the bodies own production


----------



## Conscript

Nocarbs said:


> So if I have a 2000iu amp of HCG I would mix that with 2ml of water, then how much do I draw back using an insulin needle each time whilst on cycle to maintain as close to as possible the bodies own production


Well that depends how much you want to take...

For 500iu hcg - 50 units on the slin (0.5ml - 1/2 a full slin)

For 750iu hcg - 75 units on the slin (0.75ml - 3/4 a full slin)

For 1000iu hcg - 100 units on the slin (1.0ml - a full slin)

But I would personally recon your hcg with bac water so you can find a better ratio, so that what ever dose you want to try, say 1000iu is no more than 0.5ml, otherwise you will have a lump in the skin, which can be painful sometimes..ime


----------



## Nocarbs

Well I thought 500iu a week should be enough to keep the chaps from shutting down


----------



## Conscript

Nocarbs said:


> Well I thought 500iu a week should be enough to keep the chaps from shutting down


That would be fine then. x


----------



## hackskii

Nocarbs said:


> So if I have a 2000iu amp of HCG I would mix that with 2ml of water, then how much do I draw back using an insulin needle each time whilst on cycle to maintain as close to as possible the bodies own production


Mix that with 1ml or even less, no sense in injecting a bunch of water into you.



Nocarbs said:


> Well I thought 500iu a week should be enough to keep the chaps from shutting down


I do that twice a week, so 1000 a week for me.

By the end of the cycle there will still be some atrophy.


----------



## ivan360

Mars said:


> No, just add the bacwater to your vial.


is their anything that can be used to replace bacwater in hcg solution? cant get any in my country and it will be very expensive to order it online

thanks in advance


----------



## Mars

ivan360 said:


> is their anything that can be used to replace bacwater in hcg solution? cant get any in my country and it will be very expensive to order it online
> 
> thanks in advance


Use a brand that comes with it's own solvent then you can freeze it in slin pins. Why would it be expensive?


----------



## ivan360

Mars said:


> Use a brand that comes with it's own solvent then you can freeze it in slin pins. Why would it be expensive?


well lets just say i live somewhere in east asia and ordering it abroad would add $150 for the delivery plus another $100 for customs fee in our country=)

i know it suck to live here nothing is available locally haha


----------



## ivan360

Mars said:


> Use a brand that comes with it's own solvent then you can freeze it in slin pins. Why would it be expensive?


I can get a hold of some benzyl alcohol and sterile water and make bacteriostatic water or freezing sterile water in slin pins would be a safer idea? Thanks


----------



## hackskii

That would work, you could use some steril bottles and run that all through a filter and keep it in the fridge for years.

I remember buying a case of that for like 6 bucks a 30ml bottle and sent it to one of the mods.


----------



## Ragingagain

hi, ive been a bit late starting hcg on cycle... as in week 5 of 12 of 500mg sus. now im in week 7 my balls have definitely shrunk, what can i do to get them back considering im doing hcg on cycle, id say theyve gone down maybe 25%... is it cos im doing the 1000iu shot once a week as opposed to splitting twice weekly?

they were tiny yesterday, but have come back up since my shot yesterday.... does this mean the test has just started hitting me?


----------



## Mars

1000iu once weekly is fine, as per the sticky, just carry on doing what your doing. LH production on 500mg of test stops around week 3. LH signalling stops around week 5-6, so what you are experiencing is normal for someone who started hCG a bit late.


----------



## CrazeUK

Hey lads, I'm half way through a test 50mg cycle so Ideally on Mars' advice am going to start with the HCG now, just one question, I have been running 10mg Nolva ed since the begining of my cycle and still waiting for Aromasin to get here from UP. Would it be best to wait until I have the Aromasin until I start HCG or just crack on and bump Nolva up to 20mg ed? When Aromasin gets here, would it be ok to run it ed along side the Nolva up until PCT where I will replace the Aromasin with Clomid or should I stop the Nolva and just take Aromasin every day?

Cheers lads


----------



## Mars

It would be best start hCG asap. I see no reason for you to bump up the nolva though unless you start to get any pre gyno symptoms.

When you get your aromasin use that instead of nolva as it will help keep a good ratio of T > E


----------



## CrazeUK

Nice one, cheers pal


----------



## Sureno

Great read, can you help verify one thing. Everyone will stay on for varying length anywhere from a few weeks to close on 20 and use differing compounds. My question is if the latter time on where to be used would it be wiser to use the blast protocol for the last 4 weeks as allowed to using HCG in small increments over the entire course to avoid a LH shutdown? Just trying to work out how to run it next time on a longer course


----------



## Mars

Sureno said:


> Great read, can you help verify one thing. Everyone will stay on for varying length anywhere from a few weeks to close on 20 and use differing compounds. My question is if the latter time on where to be used would it be wiser to use the blast protocol for the last 4 weeks as allowed to using HCG in small increments over the entire course to avoid a LH shutdown? Just trying to work out how to run it next time on a longer course


I would only use the blast protocol if some reason you were unable to use hCG throughout the cycle.

So i would still advocate 1000iu weekly even on longer courses, this is not a huge amount and will not cause any problems over such a duration.


----------



## Sureno

Mars said:


> I would only use the blast protocol if some reason you were unable to use hCG throughout the cycle.
> 
> So i would still advocate 1000iu weekly even on longer courses, this is not a huge amount and will not cause any problems over such a duration.


Top man, thankyou very much and sorry to be a pain but searched for hackskii's 45 day pct but can't find the actual protocol??? Is it possible for a link please?

Thankyou


----------



## Conscript

Sureno said:


> Top man, thankyou very much and sorry to be a pain but searched for hackskii's 45 day pct but can't find the actual protocol??? Is it possible for a link please?
> 
> Thankyou


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/13764-here-docs-protocol-hpta-recovery.html#post173022

Second paragraph is what you're looking for...


----------



## Sureno

Conscript said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/13764-here-docs-protocol-hpta-recovery.html#post173022
> 
> Second paragraph is what you're looking for...


Thankyou again guys


----------



## Sk1nny

Hi Mars, I am interested to know what your thoughts are on desensitisation from longterm use of hcg at 1000iu ew. Say for 9months for people who decide to blast cruise? Maybe you could suggest a better protocol for this? Also would 714iu or 833iu 1xew be noticeably less beneficial than 1000iu 1xew? I ask this second question because if somebody did want to blast cruise they could make their 5000iu vial of hcg last the 6-7 weeks assuming that you take a shot when you mix it and it keeps in the fridge for 6 weeks. I realise hcg is not exactly expensive but us bodybuilders aren't know to be frivolous types


----------



## Mars

Sk1nny said:


> Hi Mars, I am interested to know what your thoughts are on desensitisation from longterm use of hcg at 1000iu ew. Say for 9months for people who decide to blast cruise? Maybe you could suggest a better protocol for this? Also would 714iu or 833iu 1xew be noticeably less beneficial than 1000iu 1xew? I ask this second question because if somebody did want to blast cruise they could make their 5000iu vial of hcg last the 6-7 weeks assuming that you take a shot when you mix it and it keeps in the fridge for 6 weeks. I realise hcg is not exactly expensive but us bodybuilders aren't know to be frivolous types


Thats a difficult question to answer as there have been no long term studies AFAIK.

There is some evidence that tamoxifen can block hCG induced leydig cell desensitization by inhibiting several steps of steroidogenisis.

The leydig cells need LH/hCG to function properly, what we really need to know is whether low doses of hCG (1000iu wkly) for prolonged periods (months on end) can cause damage, in the rat studies there was evidence of stimulated inflamation but not so in the monkey, the doses used in rat studies that showed this were however very high at 100iu EOD for 4wks and 250iu EOD for 4wks in the monkey.

IMO i don't think that 1000iu weekly will damage the leydig cells.


----------



## Sk1nny

Thanks Mars

I had been wondering about giving the hcg a break on the last 4 weeks of the cruise on a 10 on 10 off cruise. This would obviously allow a week for the last dose administered to leave the system then 3 weeks with no hcg in the system. As is stated in that study you put up it takes 3 weeks for a dose of 500mg ew test for shut down to happen. So in theory on a cruise dose a break like this is possible with a view to lessen chances of leydig cell damage without lh levels dropping greatly. Do you have an opinion on this?


----------



## Mars

It's an idea that i have played with personally but i don't wish to have children and i will never come off test.

It is worth having a break in my lay opinion, but, TBH i would not take that break during the cruise period, i would take it during the blast period.


----------



## Sk1nny

Mars said:


> It's an idea that i have played with personally but i don't wish to have children and i will never come off test.
> 
> It is worth having a break in my lay opinion, but, TBH i would not take that break during the cruise period, i would take it during the blast period.


That's interesting mate, having a break on the blast, Can I ask what has swayed you that way? I realise we are getting into the realms of personal opinions rather than scientific fact here but I am interested to hear yours


----------



## Mars

Mainly because i always feel great on blast but libido and mood can take a dip midway through a long cruise so thought i'd do it that way instead, it makes no difference in terms of the HPTA because you aren't producing any LH on blast or cruise.


----------



## Sk1nny

Makes total sense, thanks again


----------



## MrWibble

where can you get bact water?


----------



## Nocarbs

DWalkington said:


> where can you get bact water?


http://www.bacteriostatic-water.co.uk/


----------



## MrWibble

dont the needle exchange do it?  that'd be easier


----------



## Nocarbs

DWalkington said:


> dont the needle exchange do it?  that'd be easier


my local one doesnt


----------



## MrWibble

just watched the vid good watch, i think ill get some hcg. how much do you think i should get for this cycle? and what weeks should i run it for on this cycle?

40mg dbol 1-4 run with nova 20mg aday

750mg test e - 1-12

500mg deca - 1-12

100mg eod test p 13-17

0.5 mg Adex every 3 days

0.5 mg caber every 5 days


----------



## MrWibble

decided i'd better buy enough for cycle rather than going without


----------



## Mars

I would run it from wk 2 or 3 till start of PCT.


----------



## ticmike

Do u have to put the HCG in the fridge, as im a secret user ;-) so cant really do that.

Ive got single use vials, so would just use straight away once mixed.


----------



## hackskii

ticmike said:


> Do u have to put the HCG in the fridge, as im a secret user ;-) so cant really do that.
> 
> Ive got single use vials, so would just use straight away once mixed.


How many iu's?

I don't think it would be a good idea to bang 5000iu on one hit.


----------



## Uncivilization

So How much would I need for 10 week course. Test e - Primo - Dbol

Never used it before I assume it is IM


----------



## QUEST

Mars said:


> Sticky it should be, i need to do a bit more work on the dosing protocol though.
> 
> You can inject subQ with slin pins or IM with you're normal pins.
> 
> You can also add this in the same barrel as you're aas if you like.
> 
> In you're position i would run it at 500iu 3 x wk on you're blast.
> 
> It isn't neccessary to run it on you're cruise but if you feel you want to then i would go for 250iu 3 x wk this is just my opinion though Dave, as you know there are so many different protocols and it's just a matter of finding what works for you, but the above protocols are a good guide on where to start.


so mars you sayin i can inject hcg + aas in the same barrel in to glute...............i know you av said it above just want to make sure..


----------



## Mars

roblee said:


> so mars you sayin i can inject hcg + aas in the same barrel in to glute...............i know you av said it above just want to make sure..


Yes, i do and so do a few other guys, it makes life easier especially with the thicker oils, just draw up your steroid, then your hCG, give it a damn good shake and inject.

I understand why you ask though as my thoughts on that original dosing protocol have changed since the endocrinology society brought out a new study last year.


----------



## edinburgheire

DID'NT KNOW YOU COULD MIX, THIS IS GOOD TO HEAR


----------



## Ragingagain

hi guys, can i mix hcg with sterile water as i dont have bac water....... also will sterile water be ok with peptides.. if not ill just get bac water...

p.s. i plan on refrigerating this. and i have the solution but is water better?

thanks


----------



## hackskii

Bac water is better, it will last longer with that.


----------



## Ragingagain

ni, just finished my cycle did hcg on cycle at 1000iu per week wk 5-now week 13, last shot was week 12, and my balls seem to be pretty small should i ramp up the dose for the next 2 weeks before pct?


----------



## Sk1nny

You been taking it for 8 weeks at 1000iu ew? So you got 2000iu left? 10 weeks at 1000iu should be enough from my understanding. You could have started it earlier though at week 2-3 is best. what compounds were you running dude?


----------



## hackskii

andy gibbs said:


> ni, just finished my cycle did hcg on cycle at 1000iu per week wk 5-now week 13, last shot was week 12, and my balls seem to be pretty small should i ramp up the dose for the next 2 weeks before pct?


What was your cycle?

Why did you stop week 12?

Why did you start week 5?


----------



## Ragingagain

i was running sus 500mg wk1-12

anavar 40mg/day week 8-15

hcg 1000iu wk5-still running i am in week 13 as we speak


----------



## Luigi 91

Are any of these protocols going to affect one having kids in years to come?


----------



## Mars

Luigi 91 said:


> Are any of these protocols going to affect one having kids in years to come?


The point of using hCG is to keep the testes healthy and functioning so that having children later in life isn't a problem.


----------



## Andrewgenic

I have been using hcg at 500iu's 2x pw, is it a good idea to increase this in the run up to pct? I didn't last time, but if it improves things why not. Plus I have plenty left


----------



## hackskii

Just run it up to PCT while the gear clears, that can give you a couple or few more weeks to recover your nuts.


----------



## hermie07

need some help guys, been running a test tren e course at ratio of 800/400 mg per week. just managed to source some hcg so what dose would you reccomend me to use. i have been on for 7 weeks have 3 more weeks left on the tren and 5 weeks left on test then im gonna cruise on 200mg test e for 12 weeks before my next blast. any help/advice/criticism is welcome.


----------



## Mars

Personally i use it at 1000iu p/w. I would advise you start as soon as you get your hCG and run it while you are on cycle and on cruise.


----------



## hermie07

Mars said:


> Personally i use it at 1000iu p/w. I would advise you start as soon as you get your hCG and run it while you are on cycle and on cruise.


thanks mars sound advice as usual, change of plan now, im gonna finish off my course then do a pct then wait till my next course without cruising, would you still advice same dosage till end of my course 5 weeks left then 4 weeks pct caps and would you use hcg during pct??


----------



## Mars

hermie07 said:


> thanks mars sound advice as usual, change of plan now, im gonna finish off my course then do a pct then wait till my next course without cruising, would you still advice same dosage till end of my course 5 weeks left then 4 weeks pct caps and would you use hcg during pct??


So you will be starting PCT in 7-8wks? if so i would shoot 5000iu asap and then 1000iu p/w till PCT.


----------



## revop0001

Really need help with this one please!

I've just made 14 insulin pins with 250iu hcg in each, using 1ml of bac water with the hcg powder, but I've just tried to inject 250iu sub q then and because there is that little liquid in each syringe it won't come out of the needle, so can you add more bac water to each mixed insulin syringe? Cheers


----------



## expletive

Yes you can, it will still be 250iu, just ensure the process is sterile


----------



## revop0001

expletive said:


> Yes you can, it will still be 250iu, just ensure the process is sterile


Awesome, cheers for the quick response mate


----------



## dr gonzo

When do you start HCG about 3-4 weeks into cycle? And do you run it at 1000iu a week and drop it when you start PCT??


----------



## hackskii

Yes.

You can start the hCG then, and run through clearance time of the gear.


----------



## Djibril

guys i bought my pregnyl from the pharmacy and asked the chemist for Bacteriostatic water and he told me i dont need it and i could get along with the water for injections or however it is called.

should i still go and get some bacteriostatic water from some other pharmacy?


----------



## MrWibble

Good or bad when it froffs up in the vial?


----------



## Mars

Stathis said:


> guys i bought my pregnyl from the pharmacy and asked the chemist for Bacteriostatic water and he told me i dont need it and i could get along with the water for injections or however it is called.
> 
> should i still go and get some bacteriostatic water from some other pharmacy?


If you are storing reconstituted HCG it is always best to use bac water.



DWalkington said:


> Good or bad when it froffs up in the vial?


Not really sure what you mean here, it should just instantly dissolve if you are doing it correctly.


----------



## Clubber Lang

^^ Like Mars says, HCG instantly turns into solution once you add water, it doesnt and shouldnt froth?

what brand of HCG are you using? Sounds like it isnt HCG to me?


----------



## Djibril

Mars said:


> If you are storing reconstituted HCG it is always best to use bac water.


Im not going to store it this time around mate i think, ill do 1500 Iu shots through the clearance of the gear so 1 ampoule at a time


----------



## MrWibble

Mars said:


> If you are storing reconstituted HCG it is always best to use bac water.
> 
> Not really sure what you mean here, it should just instantly dissolve if you are doing it correctly.


pregnyl, and brand is organon UK


----------



## MrWibble

think it was because i added bact water too quick etc in a sealed vial or something but its fine now


----------



## hackskii

DWalkington said:


> think it was because i added bact water too quick etc in a sealed vial or something but its fine now


It was because the vial was vacuumed sealed and once you put the pin in that rubber top, it sucked all the water in it and sprayed it, that is where the foam came from.

If it was GH you would have damaged it.

Add air first next time, then add water, you can just put air in with the water and be done with it.


----------



## dawun

5000 IU HCG in 10ml is, 500 IU per ml? Storing in the syringe or vial is okay? So the 5000IU mixed HCG in 10ml is 500iu per ml, the dosing yea?


----------



## usernameneeded

dawun said:


> 5000 IU HCG in 10ml is, 500 IU per ml? Storing in the syringe or vial is okay? So the 5000IU mixed HCG in 10ml is 500iu per ml, the dosing yea?


Yeah the working out is right but I'd prob use 2ml of bac water so every 20 iu on the slin pin is 500iu of hcg .

This way ur only pinning a smaller amount of liquid . And then just do 500iu of hcg either once or twice a week throught ur course depending how much ur balls shrink

And yeah it's ok to store in vial just keep it in fridge


----------



## hackskii

I use as little as possible.


----------



## dawun

Well then, 1ml is 500iu ,0,5 is 250iu, half ml 250iu HCG? All right then, right?


----------



## Mars

dawun said:


> Well then, 1ml is 500iu ,0,5 is 250iu, half ml 250iu HCG? All right then, right?


Yes.


----------



## dawun

usernameneeded said:


> Yeah the working out is right but I'd prob use 2ml of bac water so every 20 iu on the slin pin is 500iu of hcg .
> 
> This way ur only pinning a smaller amount of liquid . And then just do 500iu of hcg either once or twice a week throught ur course depending how much ur balls shrink
> 
> And yeah it's ok to store in vial just keep it in fridge


What do you mean? 2ml of bac water so every 20 iu on the slin pin is 500iu of hcg. But if i use different slin pin,its not the same..


----------



## dawun

Mars said:


> Yes.


Great


----------



## usernameneeded

dawun said:


> What do you mean? 2ml of bac water so every 20 iu on the slin pin is 500iu of hcg. But if i use different slin pin,its not the same..


 Use insulin (slin) pins for hcg as u do it subq

So get the 1ml (100iu) ones it's makes out on them more acurate and the needle is really fine so makes it pain free and then ur only shooting tiny amounts rather than 1ml twice a week the way u were thinking


----------



## mark22

Personally add 1ml and do 5iu on slin pin (250iu hcg) m-w-f. No need to be injecting huge amounts subq really, slin pins are very accurate, I use the 0.5ml ones.


----------



## dawun

usernameneeded said:


> Use insulin (slin) pins for hcg as u do it subq
> 
> So get the 1ml (100iu) ones it's makes out on them more acurate and the needle is really fine so makes it pain free and then ur only shooting tiny amounts rather than 1ml twice a week the way u were thinking


Ok, I'll get insulin slin pin. The 1ml (100iu) ones? But how do you mix to be 500 or 250iu, in that insulin slin pin?


----------



## usernameneeded

dawun said:


> Ok, I'll get insulin slin pin. The 1ml (100iu) ones? But how do you mix to be 500 or 250iu, in that insulin slin pin?


U can mix it with a normal barrel and needle using say 2ml of water . Slowly inject the bac water into the vial . The powder should disolve ( don't shake the vial ) on it's own

Then all u do is use the slin pin to draw 20iu on the needle ( which is 1/10th so 5000 iu hcg divided by 10 gives u 500iu of hcg)

U could use 1ml of water ( instead of 2ml and jab 10iu on the needle it's still 1/10th of the hcg)

All you do then to inject is clean the top of the vial and ur belly , jab about an inch to the side of belly button.

Pinch some fat inbetween finger and thumb then jab at 90 degree angle ( so if u were stood up straight into belly , push plunger in wait a second or 2 then remove needle

Job done.

Then just put mixed hcg back in fridge ready for next shot and just repeat above


----------



## dawun

usernameneeded said:


> U can mix it with a normal barrel and needle using say 2ml of water . Slowly inject the bac water into the vial . The powder should disolve ( don't shake the vial ) on it's own
> 
> Then all u do is use the slin pin to draw 20iu on the needle ( which is 1/10th so 5000 iu hcg divided by 10 gives u 500iu of hcg)
> 
> U could use 1ml of water ( instead of 2ml and jab 10iu on the needle it's still 1/10th of the hcg)
> 
> All you do then to inject is clean the top of the vial and ur belly , jab about an inch to the side of belly button.
> 
> Pinch some fat inbetween finger and thumb then jab at 90 degree angle ( so if u were stood up straight into belly , push plunger in wait a second or 2 then remove needle
> 
> Job done.
> 
> Then just put mixed hcg back in fridge ready for next shot and just repeat above


Okay,

The 1500IU and 5000IU ones are available. If i will use the 1500iu hcg. How to mix that, to get 250/500iu mixed hcg?


----------



## usernameneeded

dawun said:


> Okay,
> 
> The 1500IU and 5000IU ones are available. If i will use the 1500iu hcg. How to mix that, to get 250/500iu mixed hcg?


It's upto u how u mix it up , I've done the working out and shown u how to work it out a few times

If u get the 1500iu and u want 500iu that's 3 shots

So just work out how much water u want to use

I would use 20iu on the slin pin for each shot so 20iu of bac water x 3 ( cause we have already worked out above ur getting 3 shots out of 1 amp) is 60iu of water ,which is 0.6 ml of water ( cause 1ml= 100iu of fluid)

If u go for the 5000 that's 10 shots @ 500iu of hcg

So u do 20iu of water x 10 = 200iu of water (2ml)

For 10,000 it's 20 shots @ 500iu of hcg

So 20iu of water x 20 shots = 400iu of water (4ml)

It works for any amount u just do the same working out process


----------



## hackskii

dawun said:


> Okay,
> 
> The 1500IU and 5000IU ones are available. If i will use the 1500iu hcg. How to mix that, to get 250/500iu mixed hcg?


The total never changes, just the water.

So, add in 1ml and then 330 would equate to 500iu if you are using the 1500, or 100 if using the 5000

Just divide the water into the iu


----------



## Djibril

ive been trying to hide the Hcg in the fridge but its actually unmixed, does any1 know what really happens if it stays outside the fridge when not mixed?


----------



## hackskii

Its ok till mixed.


----------



## Pula

Hey hi everyone, after reading all the posts I still got some questions. I'm on the end of my third week of my cicle, only used HCG before for pct but this time want to run it during the cicle, so let me see if i got it right:

HCG5000 ius + 5ml bac water = 5000iu HCG = 10 shots of 500 iu

So if I take 500 iu a week that means 10 weeks but after mixed it will last about 5 weeks right??*

Or

Should I take 500 iu twice a week make it last 5 weeks

Or

Mix HCG5000 + 2.5ml bac water= 2500 iu HCG and take 500 iu a week (250iu twice or 500iu once) .

And is on the belly the best place to jabb with slin pin??


----------



## hackskii

500iu twice a week.

You wont need 5ml to mix 5000iu, I use only 1ml myself.


----------



## mark22

Belly is easiest, grab a clean spot and try look out for little veins as that's when you get a bruise. As said above if you do 1ml in 5000 then 10 iu or 1 big tick on a 1ml slin pin is 500. I've been doing 500 e5d.


----------



## Mr_Morocco

what temperature does HCG have to be stored at?


----------



## Pula

Ok thanks

I take my aas on Monday and Thursday, can I take HCG on the same day??

5000iu+1ml= I will have 1ml of 5000ius right? So how many shots of 500ius will I have??

Sorry if my questions sounds abit silly


----------



## mark22

You'd have 10 shots lasting 5 weeks so might want two lots. Ithink it's better than one 1000iu vial as it doesn't need to last as long. Yes it does need refrigeration.


----------



## Djibril

hackskii said:


> Its ok till mixed.


omg thanks mate, im taking it out, been hiding it at work for 2 months for no particular reason lol


----------



## Mars

Afghan said:


> what temperature does HCG have to be stored at?


Once mixed 2-8c, fridge temp, in powder form, ambient temp 2-15c


----------



## mark22

It came in a vial when I ordered from adc. I have been doing 500iu e5d with good results.


----------



## mark22

A 5000iu vial, which is good size as it lasts a few weeks but not too long, I mix with 0.5ml water and then 5 ius on a slin pin is equal to 500 ius of hcg. I use 0.5ml pins that hold 50ius marked up the side. A 1ml pin would hold 100iu.


----------



## Vasea

After 2 - 3 months keep it in room around 20 celsius will HCG still good to go ?


----------



## daz89uk

dose this sound good to you if im using pergnly 5000iu

Add 1ml bac water into your 5000iu hcg vial.

Draw out 0.2ml of mixed solution into 5 slin pins.

This will give you 5 slin pins, each one with 1000iu in each.

Jab one once a week.

ALSO i know this might sound stupid to you lot but what are slin pins are they just normal needles and where do i jab it IM or in fat of belly if so how "pinch lift the skin and then jab just into the skin?"


----------



## Spfireman

Need some serious advise on what to take.

My levels are as follows :

My Lh is .7miu/ml ,

FSH is .6miu/ml

estradiol is 53.3 pg/ml.

Test is 253

Was on TE, mastron and tren.

Keep in mind I came off with no pct. was a serious newbie and got advise from someone at the gym who didn't know ****.

I want to star up again and have been off for almost 4 months.

My new cycle will be

Will consist of TE, tren.

My doc has benn giving me a shot of hCG about every two weeks at 2000 IU's. Was wondering what your thoughts were as far as running this during a cycle and what the dosage should be to get my **** normal again. . My doctor will write me a prescription for it but he says he needs to see some type of medical proof that proves that this is okay so that my insurance will pay for it any suggestions. Also he put me on Letro bc my estrogen level were high. 2.5mg two times a week.

I have not taken the letro yet. From what I hear that is way too high. Any recommendations here? I am also taking propecia.

Any thoughts on medical proof of HCG, and Dosage on how to use it during a cycle. Also is letro dosage to high. Need help on how long to stay on it for.


----------



## hackskii

Can you put up the reference ranges?

Some labs vary and by the looks of it your LH and FSH are very low, yet at 253 you are producing some testosterone.

Or did you get an HCG shot then test for testosterone?


----------



## dawun

I got Schering-Plough N.V Organon Holland, the 1500IU HCG Pregnyl. On the box says for IM use, so what to do for im or subc use? How should I use it the 1500IU it is okay, for 2 use. 1ml is 1500IU and 0.5ml is 750iu . It is okay so 0.5ml 750iu but subc or im? Thanks in advance


----------



## dawun

No bac water,just that classic water solution. Its good that 1ml to use 2 times ,0.5ml 750iu's. On monday/thursday or friday and storing it in the fridge for that 4-5 days?


----------



## dawun

:confused1: ?


----------



## dawun

Its my first cycle, now on the 10th week, and i wasnt using the hcg durring the 9week :cowboy: . Just now want to starting it. :bounce:

The cycle lenght is 13-15 weeks


----------



## hackskii

4 to 5 days should be fine.

Keep them in the fridge


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> 4 to 5 days should be fine.
> 
> Keep them in the fridge


Thanks, I was read the instructions manual book, its for im and subq use. I will use subq, but its that ok, mixing the 1500iu with that classic water and using it 2 times ew 0.5ml 750iu, with a 2ml syringe and an insulin needle (not slin-pin) aint that too thin for the hcg and solution the insulin needle?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Spfireman

Sorry hackski,

Here are The references

My LH was .7 mIU/ml range is 1.7 -8.6

My FSH was .6 mIU/ml range is 1.5-12.4

Estradiol was 53.3 pg/ml range is 7.6-42.6

TT was 214 range 250 -1100

FT was 34.9 range 35-155

Let me know what you think about my post above.

Doc is giving me TE 200/week

He also wants me to take Letro 2.5mg twice a week. From what I heard that is very high. Each pill is 2.5mg.

My post above explains everything. All in all I want to start up again but I want to come off right this time. That's why I am here.

Thanks again for all ur help.


----------



## hackskii

dawun said:


> Thanks, I was read the instructions manual book, its for im and subq use. I will use subq, but its that ok, mixing the 1500iu with that classic water and using it 2 times ew 0.5ml 750iu, with a 2ml syringe and an insulin needle (not slin-pin) aint that too thin for the hcg and solution the insulin needle?
> 
> Thanks in advance


That is fine.



Spfireman said:


> Sorry hackski,
> 
> Here are The references
> 
> My LH was .7 mIU/ml range is 1.7 -8.6
> 
> My FSH was .6 mIU/ml range is 1.5-12.4
> 
> Estradiol was 53.3 pg/ml range is 7.6-42.6
> 
> TT was 214 range 250 -1100
> 
> FT was 34.9 range 35-155
> 
> Let me know what you think about my post above.
> 
> Doc is giving me TE 200/week
> 
> He also wants me to take Letro 2.5mg twice a week. From what I heard that is very high. Each pill is 2.5mg.
> 
> My post above explains everything. All in all I want to start up again but I want to come off right this time. That's why I am here.
> 
> Thanks again for all ur help.


Did you run a cycle of something?

Sorry, but if you started a thread with all the information, and linked it, that would be awesome.

With your estrogen high, LH and FSH low, its now wonder T levels are compromised.

It looks like you are at the back end of an aromitizable steroid cycle by the looks of it.

If no cycle then you have a ton of aromatase activity going on, and probably some deficiencies in minerals and vitamins, along with alot of belly fat.


----------



## Spfireman

here was my original post.

Need some serious advise on what to take.

My LH was .7 mIU/ml range is 1.7 -8.6

My FSH was .6 mIU/ml range is 1.5-12.4

Estradiol was 53.3 pg/ml range is 7.6-42.6

TT was 214 range 250 -1100

FT was 34.9 range 35-155

Was on TE, mastron and tren.

Keep in mind I came off with no pct. was a serious newbie and got advise from someone at the gym who didn't know ****.

I want to star up again and have been off for almost 4 months.

My new cycle will be

Will consist of TE, tren.

My doc has benn giving me a shot of hCG about every two weeks at 2000 IU's. Was wondering what your thoughts were as far as running this during a cycle and what the dosage should be to get my **** normal again. . My doctor will write me a prescription for it but he says he needs to see some type of medical proof that proves that this is okay so that my insurance will pay for it any suggestions. Also he put me on Letro bc my estrogen level were high. 2.5mg two times a week.

I have not taken the letro yet. From what I hear that is way too high. Any recommendations here? I am also taking propecia.

Any thoughts on medical proof of HCG, and Dosage on how to use it during a cycle. Also is letro dosage to high. Need help on how long to stay on it for.


----------



## hackskii

I myself looking at your LH levels, T levels, and E levels.

I think the T is almost within range due to the HCG.

I suggest this because your LH and FSH are very low, yet your T levels are just below low end of range.

If you took 100mg clomid ED for 3 weeks, and 20mg nolva for 4 weeks, along with a low dose of letro, I think you would fair pretty well.

Clomid should bump up your levels alot and withing 5 to 7 days actually.

Once your LH and FSH are withing range, your nuts will make more testosterone.

You could run a couple of shots of HCG to get you into range.

1000iu EOD, along with the clomid and nolva would probably work after a week, 2 max.

Then continue to run the clomid and nolva for an additional 3 weeks past last jab of HCG.


----------



## Spfireman

What should I do with the Letro? How much and for how long. I want to make sure I get this right this time around.


----------



## hackskii

Start a thread, this thread is a sticky on HCG.


----------



## G3NEiol_lwS

i found this thread usefully informative


----------



## BigAggs

:thumb:


----------



## diddler

I was considering using Hcg during my first cycle of Epistane..the reason being that i tried Ostarine and after a week at 12.5mg a day i got some atrophy. I'm 45 yrs old and want to keep my nuts functioning as well as i can. Would it be overkill for Epi? I was thinking of 500Iu weekly, but unsure when my own production of LH would decrease on EPI... i was thinking from week 2 0r 3 to the end of my 6 week cycle, so only 3 to 4 weeks of Hcg. Any thoughts guys?

Pct Nolva 20/20/10/10 and some DaA.


----------



## baggsy1436114680

when you mix the hcg with bac water for the first time so at room temperature can you jab straight away or do you need to refrigerate for a while and then jab??


----------



## bauhaus

I hope its ok to do that. I've just mixed my second batch of HCG and pinned it at room temperature.


----------



## Mars

diddler said:


> I was considering using Hcg during my first cycle of Epistane..the reason being that i tried Ostarine and after a week at 12.5mg a day i got some atrophy. I'm 45 yrs old and want to keep my nuts functioning as well as i can. Would it be overkill for Epi? I was thinking of 500Iu weekly, but unsure when my own production of LH would decrease on EPI... i was thinking from week 2 0r 3 to the end of my 6 week cycle, so only 3 to 4 weeks of Hcg. Any thoughts guys?
> 
> Pct Nolva 20/20/10/10 and some DaA.


I dont know anything about Epi but if it causes suppression of the HPTA then there's no reason not to use HCG for your epi cycle, start it at the beginning or at wk 2.


----------



## Mars

baggsy said:


> when you mix the hcg with bac water for the first time so at room temperature can you jab straight away or do you need to refrigerate for a while and then jab??


Yes, you're only refrigerating it because thats how it needs to be stored.


----------



## diddler

Mars said:


> I dont know anything about Epi but if it causes suppression of the HPTA then there's no reason not to use HCG for your epi cycle, start it at the beginning or at wk 2.


Thanks for the reply, i'll try Hcg when i start my Epistane and see how i get on...cheers.


----------



## bauhaus

Mars, I've just got back from work found my Hcg has been taken out of the fridge & put on the window sill... ****ed off to say the least. Anyways, the culprit (my missus) thinks it's been sat there for a good 2 hrs.

Would it have degraded by now or still be ok?? Cheers in advance.


----------



## Mars

robbo1978 said:


> Mars, I've just got back from work found my Hcg has been taken out of the fridge & put on the window sill... ****ed off to say the least. Anyways, the culprit (my missus) thinks it's been sat there for a good 2 hrs.
> 
> Would it have degraded by now or still be ok?? Cheers in advance.


All i can tell you is that it's shouldn't be left in direct sunlight according to the manufacturers and i guess the reason for this is degredation.


----------



## Mars

ninjaralf said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I have some questions after reading this fantastic thread on PCT and HCG. As I don't know how to PM, I'll post my story here.
> 
> 24 yrs old!
> 
> A couple of months ago I did a 2 month cycle on some dbols, followed only by a PCT of 20 days of Nolva á 20mg. The reason i couldn't do any other PCT was because my guy was unable to provide me with other stuff (sounds stupid, I know).
> 
> However, as approximately 3 moths went by my balls were significantly still shrunked, and my libido down. My sperm count was also significantly lower. I am pretty sure I was rather shutdown, although my balls was not like peas.
> 
> So, recently I started HCG, and stumbled across this interesting thread.
> 
> Therefore, after reading all the interesting opinions on dosages combined with SERMS, I wanted to hear your thoughts and comments on my current setup, and gain some help.
> 
> I am currently doing 500 i.u. twice a week, for 4 weeks on Wednesday.
> 
> week 1 (1000 i.u.): Sun 29 Apr (500); Wen 2 may (500)
> 
> week 2 (1000 i.u.): Sat 5 may (500); Wen 9 may (500)
> 
> week 3 (1000 i.u.): Sat 12 may (500); Wen 16 may (500)
> 
> week 4 (1000 i.u.): Sat 19 may (500);
> 
> week 5 (1000 i.u.):
> 
> But I keep reading that this dosage might be to low, for a "restart". So, i'm thinking of doing *10.000 i.u. in total, starting 1000 i.u EOD* on wednesay 23, until i run out (I only have 10.000 in total). I also keep reading that I should combine with nolva and clomid to protect the nuts from gyno & also raise the FSH and LH after i'm done.
> 
> First i thought about only doing a total of 5000.i.u like my schedule above and quit thereafter. But now then i've started to reconsider taking everything, thus 10.000.
> 
> I'm also on HGH since late feb, don't know if that has something to do with this, but whatever!
> 
> Do you have any further suggestions on my dosage etc? And when should i possibly start nolva with clomid?
> 
> I really appreciate all the feedback.
> 
> Big thanks from Scandinavia!


I wouldn't do that protocol given what i originally posted from the endocrinology society about the bi-phaic properties etc. I would run the 5000iu once weekly for 4 weeks protocol, i know people who have used that protocol successfully.


----------



## Mars

ninjaralf said:


> Do you mean that I should just do 3 more shots of 500i.u. and then be done with it?
> 
> Now I have taken a total of 3500iu, and 4000 on wednesday, which is my 4th week. How do you recommend me to continue? Sorry if i'm slow.
> 
> Also, do you then recommend nolva & clomid?
> 
> Thanks Mars!


Read my post again mate, 5000iu not 500iu, it can take at least 20000iu to get the testes back up and running again hence 5000iu once weekly for 4wks.


----------



## Maximus Pullo

Mars said:


> Read my post again mate, 5000iu not 500iu, it can take at least 20000iu to get the testes back up and running again hence 5000iu once weekly for 4wks.


Hi Mars,

I just got some pregnyl. (will post pics up later)

Just wondering if storage before i mix it is a problem? I mean my room is always about 25 degress.

Is that too hot? Should i stick it in the fridge before i mix it? Even though i have not mixed it yet.

Also the hcg is not powder, its like a blob.. is that normal?

Thanks in advance


----------



## mark22

My uncle has prostate cancer, sorry to go off topic a bit but think it fits in here. Dont quite make sense to me, they giving him some anti androgens as a primer for 4 weeks then they gonna stop his testosterone via lh, to me this seems worse than the disease. Anyone no better.


----------



## Maximus Pullo

mark22 said:


> My uncle has prostate cancer, sorry to go off topic a bit but think it fits in here. Dont quite make sense to me, they giving him some anti androgens as a primer for 4 weeks then they gonna stop his testosterone via lh, to me this seems worse than the disease. Anyone no better.


Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question mate. Start a brand new thread and im sure lots of people will be happy to help. Also get a 2nd and 3rd opinion from different doctors?


----------



## Mars

mark22 said:


> My uncle has prostate cancer, sorry to go off topic a bit but think it fits in here. Dont quite make sense to me, they giving him some anti androgens as a primer for 4 weeks then they gonna stop his testosterone via lh, to me this seems worse than the disease. Anyone no better.


Read this, it will help you understand why it's beneficial.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080102222947.htm


----------



## hackskii

mark22 said:


> My uncle has prostate cancer, sorry to go off topic a bit but think it fits in here. Dont quite make sense to me, they giving him some anti androgens as a primer for 4 weeks then they gonna stop his testosterone via lh, to me this seems worse than the disease. Anyone no better.


They did that to a friend of mine, they removed his prostate and still had an elevated PSA test.

They put him on anti-androgen therapy where they give him a shot and it chemically castrates him.


----------



## sunn

Read the whole thread its great really helps so thanks hacksi and mars!


----------



## AnotherLevel

Apologies if this has already been asked but does it matter if I stop my HCG a couple of weeks before my PCT starts? Or should I really be keeping to it until PCT? I ask because I'm short on HCG and as things stand will run out around 3 to 4 weeks before my PCT.

Thanks


----------



## hackskii

Well it still will be active days after last jab.


----------



## AnotherLevel

hackskii said:


> Well it still will be active days after last jab.


How many days roughly? Could this leave me worse off than if I had just not done HCG throughout the whole cycle?


----------



## hackskii

3.5 to 7 depending on who you ask.

As long as you have testicular function recovery will be easy.


----------



## AnotherLevel

hackskii said:


> 3.5 to 7 depending on who you ask.
> 
> As long as you have testicular function recovery will be easy.


So I'm guessing if I stop HCG say 3 weeks before PCT I may lose testicular function making recovery more difficult? Pretty much the same as if I didn't use HCG at all during cycle?


----------



## hackskii

AnotherLevel said:


> So I'm guessing if I stop HCG say 3 weeks before PCT I may lose testicular function making recovery more difficult? Pretty much the same as if I didn't use HCG at all during cycle?


Question.

Why stop HCG 3 weeks before you start PCT?


----------



## Mars

hackskii said:


> Question.
> 
> Why stop HCG 3 weeks before you start PCT?


Your memory is as bad as mine lol.

AnotherLevel

Join Date:Mar 2012

Posts:173

Liked:20 timesRe: HCG: mixing, storing, dosing.

Apologies if this has already been asked but does it matter if I stop my HCG a couple of weeks before my PCT starts? Or should I really be keeping to it until PCT? *I ask because I'm short on HCG and as things stand will run out around 3 to 4 weeks before my PCT.*

Thanks


----------



## Maximus Pullo

Hey Mars and Hackskii,

I have my hcg and bacteriostatic water but i cant get hold of any empty sterile vials.

Is there a way of mixing without the extra empty vial?

Is 2ml enough for 5000iu? I will be injecting 500iu 2 times per week.

Thank you


----------



## hackskii

Mars said:


> Your memory is as bad as mine lol.
> 
> AnotherLevel
> 
> Join Date:Mar 2012
> 
> Posts:173
> 
> Liked:20 timesRe: HCG: mixing, storing, dosing.
> 
> Apologies if this has already been asked but does it matter if I stop my HCG a couple of weeks before my PCT starts? Or should I really be keeping to it until PCT? *I ask because I'm short on HCG and as things stand will run out around 3 to 4 weeks before my PCT.*
> 
> Thanks


 :lol:

My memory is so bad, the wife constantly reminds me of this.

I just asked her if the new printer cartridges fixed the printer (knock off ones did not work), and she said she told me it fixed the printer last week.

Damn, I really do not remember her telling me that.:eek:


----------



## hackskii

Maximus Pullo said:


> Hey Mars and Hackskii,
> 
> I have my hcg and bacteriostatic water but i cant get hold of any empty sterile vials.
> 
> Is there a way of mixing without the extra empty vial?
> 
> Is 2ml enough for 5000iu? I will be injecting 500iu 2 times per week.
> 
> Thank you


You can draw the mix up and just toss them in the fridge.

I mix mine with just 1ml so I don't have to shoot as much, but it is your call.


----------



## Maximus Pullo

hackskii said:


> You can draw the mix up and just toss them in the fridge.
> 
> I mix mine with just 1ml so I don't have to shoot as much, but it is your call.


Hey Hackskii,

thanks for your reply.

I just had a good look at the box of my water and it does not say bacteriostatic water on it.

This is what it says: "water for injections.....10 x 2ml sterile water for injections for i.v injection... for use as a diluent"

Is this the same as bacteriostatic water? and can it last 5-6 weeks once mixed?

Also the water and hcg are in ampoules so i have not even 1 vials for mixing 

Cheers


----------



## Hotdog147

Maximus Pullo said:


> Hey Hackskii,
> 
> thanks for your reply.
> 
> I just had a good look at the box of my water and it does not say bacteriostatic water on it.
> 
> This is what it says: "water for injections.....10 x 2ml sterile water for injections for i.v injection... for use as a diluent"
> 
> Is this the same as bacteriostatic water? and can it last 5-6 weeks once mixed?
> 
> Also the water and hcg are in ampoules so i have not even 1 vials for mixing
> 
> Cheers


No mate, that water you have is intended for immediate use only, however, you can preload all your slins and freeze them and they will last for quite a few months at least

Just pull them out as you need them, they defrost in minutes

As for the dilemma of mixing, I doubt you will fit the slin pin inside(once water is added to the amp) the glass amp to preload them so IMO a sterile vial is needed. You can get them here...... Along with some Bac water!

http://www.bacteriostatic-water.co.uk/5-x-10ml-sterile-vials-25-p.asp


----------



## Fat

Mars said:


> From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.


Is this the most up-to-date protocol that we should follow? any benefit doing 500ui x2 a week?


----------



## Mars

Fat said:


> Is this the most up-to-date protocol that we should follow? any benefit doing 500ui x2 a week?


Yes, it's from the latest study by the endocrinology society.

You can do 500iu twice weekly if you like.


----------



## Fat

Mars said:


> Yes, it's from the latest study by the endocrinology society.
> 
> You can do 500iu twice weekly if you like.


Thanks. Is there any difference or just wasting needles?


----------



## hackskii

Fat said:


> Thanks. Is there any difference or just wasting needles?


That and if one was not using an AI, 1000iu of HCG can and did give me gyno after only one shot.


----------



## AnotherLevel

Injected HCG today just to the right of my abs and the area around the site is quite sore to touch, is this normal?


----------



## hackskii

AnotherLevel said:


> Injected HCG today just to the right of my abs and the area around the site is quite sore to touch, is this normal?


Yes, but make sure you do it slow, fast injection causes some trauma from the spraying.


----------



## AnotherLevel

hackskii said:


> Yes, but make sure you do it slow, fast injection causes some trauma from the spraying.


I did 40 units on my insulin syringe, think thats 0.4ml. Yeah I injected quite fast, probably all in under 10 seconds easily. How slow should I go for that amount?


----------



## hackskii

AnotherLevel said:


> I did 40 units on my insulin syringe, think thats 0.4ml. Yeah I injected quite fast, probably all in under 10 seconds easily. How slow should I go for that amount?


Well, I use far less liquid so much less is injected in the first place.

My peptide shots are done super slow like 5 seconds and that is 1/4th the volume of yours.

I noticed with the ultra fine pins I get more bruising than the other ones, I thought it was just because of it spraying much more due to such a small needle.


----------



## AnotherLevel

hackskii said:


> Well, I use far less liquid so much less is injected in the first place.
> 
> My peptide shots are done super slow like 5 seconds and that is 1/4th the volume of yours.
> 
> I noticed with the ultra fine pins I get more bruising than the other ones, I thought it was just because of it spraying much more due to such a small needle.


Ah okay. I use 0.4ml as mixing my 5000iu with 1ml of water left me losing a lot as you lose 0.1ml each time you withdraw from a vial... so I only got about 3500iu out of my last mixed lot of 5000iu. I've now put in 2ml to mix with so I can at least get 4000 from it. Area is very sore now though, thanks for the advice will go slower next time.


----------



## Lightweight!

> As a matter of fact, males tend to lose even more weight than female HCG dieters.


Anyone experience fat loss from the typical HCG protocols used in this thread? (Alongside a steroid cycle).


----------



## Mars

Lightweight! said:


> Anyone experience fat loss from the typical HCG protocols used in this thread? (Alongside a steroid cycle).


If they did it wasn't from the HCG.


----------



## Lightweight!

Mars said:


> If they did it wasn't from the HCG.


Yeah, just reading up a little more on the "HCG diet" and have seen mention of only consuming 500kcals a day- crazy stuff.


----------



## hackskii

My wife loves it, but anything to restrict her calories is enough for me.

She needs a crutch to lean on for her to lose weight.


----------



## Lightweight!

What's the score with things being passed on from the female "supplying" the urine, I'm guessing anything that could be passed on via urine? Strange question perhaps, but cropped up in conversation.


----------



## hackskii

Lightweight! said:


> What's the score with things being passed on from the female "supplying" the urine, I'm guessing anything that could be passed on via urine? Strange question perhaps, but cropped up in conversation.


Two types, synthetic, and urine, the last one goes through some process in a lab first, no need to worry, it is safe.


----------



## Lightweight!

hackskii said:


> Two types, synthetic, and urine, the last one goes through some process in a lab first, no need to worry, it is safe.


What type is typically distributed by the underground labs?

Good to know, there is a bit of scaremongering around (well only the initial post in this thread). E.g:

http://hcgdietinfo.com/hcgdietforums/f5/our-hcg-we-buy-online-screened-hiv-hep-2494/


----------



## hackskii

Lightweight! said:


> What type is typically distributed by the underground labs?
> 
> Good to know, there is a bit of scaremongering around (well only the initial post in this thread). E.g:
> 
> http://hcgdietinfo.com/hcgdietforums/f5/our-hcg-we-buy-online-screened-hiv-hep-2494/


Relax man, it is safe.


----------



## Lightweight!

Any reason why you couldn't start HCG at the beginning of week 4, I know it's recommended either from the start or week 2...


----------



## ForeignGuy

i think that hcg would be started when testes start to shrink,so only if really necessary.


----------



## Mars

Lightweight! said:


> Any reason why you couldn't start HCG at the beginning of week 4, I know it's recommended either from the start or week 2...


Not really but obviously the point of taking hCG is so that the testes do not shutdown, by week 4 they will have.


----------



## Clubber Lang

started back on HCG after a 6 week break, run during cycles. Nuts have grown and my man juice is like Playdoh pmsl.


----------



## ForeignGuy

Clubber Lang said:


> started back on HCG after a 6 week break, run during cycles. Nuts have grown and *my man juice is like Playdoh pmsl.*


ahahahhahah lol


----------



## Lightweight!

Mars said:


> Not really but obviously the point of taking hCG is so that the testes do not shutdown, by week 4 they will have.


True that.

I was thinking it might "bring them back" despite being a bit later, can't say I've lost much size if any, they do feel a bit tighter though.

What do we think, start now- or wait and do in PCT?


----------



## Mars

Lightweight! said:


> True that.
> 
> I was thinking it might "bring them back" despite being a bit later, can't say I've lost much size if any, they do feel a bit tighter though.
> 
> What do we think, start now- or wait and do in PCT?


You need to start asap, the recovery process post cycle is seriously hindered if the testes are not kept functioning when you start PCT.

There is no point letting the testes shutdown before doing something about it, so big NO, do not wait till you start PCT.

Also may i point out that testicular size is not an indicator of testicular function.


----------



## Lightweight!

Thanks mate.

I know most people do subq HCG in the stomach, but is there any issue with using an orange slin put and doing the glute?


----------



## Mars

Lightweight! said:


> Thanks mate.
> 
> I know most people do subq HCG in the stomach, but is there any issue with using an orange slin put and doing the glute?


I always shoot mine IM, in fact it should be shot IM, it's only since the dumb HCG diet became mainstream and the girlies started shooting it sub Q.


----------



## paulshane

Mars said:


> I always shoot mine IM, in fact it should be shot IM, it's only since the dumb HCG diet became mainstream and the girlies started shooting it sub Q.


Do you find that pinning HCG hurts quite a lot more than oils when shot IM? The reason I ask is that I had no problem with self injecting Deca and Test, hardly feel anything, but the HCG hurts like hell. Nearly failed today, had to withdraw and reset the pin, it still hurt like hell but managed to grin and bear it.


----------



## Mars

paulshane said:


> Do you find that pinning HCG hurts quite a lot more than oils when shot IM? The reason I ask is that I had no problem with self injecting Deca and Test, hardly feel anything, but the HCG hurts like hell. Nearly failed today, had to withdraw and reset the pin, it still hurt like hell but managed to grin and bear it.


Well iv'e never shot it on it's own, it always goes in the same barrel as the test.


----------



## paulshane

Ah, Ok, I was going to ask that. So it can be pinned with test in the same shot. Would I be correct in assuming that it is the oil (test, deca, eg) that, first of all makes the pin glide into the injection site with relative ease, and second, is less painful to inject? Just finished my first cycle of Deca/Test. Overcame the fear of injections and was having no problems with self pinning for 9 weeks. Then, first 2 shots of HCG and "OUCH". Had no anxiety before shots during cycle but am dreading next shot of HCG in 2 days time. 5 more to go after that.


----------



## Mars

paulshane said:


> Ah, Ok, I was going to ask that. So it can be pinned with test in the same shot. Would I be correct in assuming that it is the oil (test, deca, eg) that, first of all makes the pin glide into the injection site with relative ease, and second, is less painful to inject? Just finished my first cycle of Deca/Test. Overcame the fear of injections and was having no problems with self pinning for 9 weeks. Then, first 2 shots of HCG and "OUCH". Had no anxiety before shots during cycle but am dreading next shot of HCG in 2 days time. 5 more to go after that.


It's not the oil, the needles have a coating these days so it's not neccessary to let some of the injection roll down the needle.

I just draw up my test then my pre mixed HCG, give it a good shake (you can do this with HCG and test etc because the viscosity of the oil keeps the molecules from being damaged) and inject. Don't use too much bacwater when reconstituting your HCG. i find that 2.5ml per 5000iu is about right.

If you feel more comfortable do your HCG sub Q.


----------



## paulshane

Cheers Mars


----------



## Ginger Ben

paulshane said:


> Do you find that pinning HCG hurts quite a lot more than oils when shot IM? The reason I ask is that I had no problem with self injecting Deca and Test, hardly feel anything, but the HCG hurts like hell. Nearly failed today, had to withdraw and reset the pin, it still hurt like hell but managed to grin and bear it.


You might be injecting the hcg too quickly. The water flys through a pin compared to oil and I saw hackskii say that jabbing it too quickly can cause it to "spray" in to the muscle which could cause pain at the pinning site.


----------



## paulshane

Yep. Scott has been great regarding advice. I owe him beer.


----------



## harryblue

AnotherLevel said:


> Injected HCG today just to the right of my abs and the area around the site is quite sore to touch, is this normal?


I tried HCG sub-Q and I found quite a lot of PIP afterwards, I usually shoot IM with a slin needle in my quad and zero pip but three times I've tried it sub-Q and three times I've had pip and even a black bruise once.

And its not like I'm sensitive either, I've shot HGH ED sub-Q for a full year with zero pip.


----------



## rippeddown

Is it okay to mix Hcg in the same barrel as test and tren?


----------



## Mars

rippeddown said:


> Is it okay to mix Hcg in the same barrel as test and tren?


I always add my reconstituted hCG to the same barrel as my steroids.


----------



## rippeddown

Mars said:


> I always add my reconstituted hCG to the same barrel as my steroids.


i never knew that, ive always jabbed it separately.. its good to know and saves jab :beer:


----------



## Mars

I just draw up my steroid then draw up my hcg. What you could do is draw up your steroid, draw up you hcg into your slin, then squirt the hcg into the steroid barrel when you change pins.


----------



## Mars

Cr3do said:


> Thanks Mars,
> 
> I have the Alpha Pharma HCG, can I just add the bac water to the vial the powder is in, give it a swirl and leave it in there and draw out when needed?
> 
> Cheers.


That's what i do, i only mentioned the slin pin idea because you did, so i assumed you were using slin pins to store your mixed HCG.


----------



## Mars

Cr3do said:


> Hi Mars,
> 
> I added the hgc to the test and it looked like bubbles in the barrel, but i presume this is the bac water and is safe to inject?


Yeah it's fine mate.


----------



## Glenquagmire

Hi,

Just started my first cycle, test at 500mg/wk. Going to start HCG at the beginning of week 2. What's the recommended dosing...1000iu once a week, or 500iu every 4 days. I have seen the ref about the refractory period of 96 hrs after 1000iu, but wondered if it's the same for 500iu. Also some concerns regarding gyno at 1000iu, Taking arimidex 0.5 eod at the minute, no problems so far.

So.. 1000iu in one shot, or 500iu every 4 days?

Thanks


----------



## Mars

Glenquagmire said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just started my first cycle, test at 500mg/wk. Going to start HCG at the beginning of week 2. What's the recommended dosing...1000iu once a week, or 500iu every 4 days. I have seen the ref about the refractory period of 96 hrs after 1000iu, but wondered if it's the same for 500iu. Also some concerns regarding gyno at 1000iu, Taking arimidex 0.5 eod at the minute, no problems so far.
> 
> So.. 1000iu in one shot, or 500iu every 4 days?
> 
> Thanks


Either mate, i prefer the least jabs possible so i do 1000iu once weekly.


----------



## Glenquagmire

Ok, Thanks


----------



## TheLion313

If I have 5000iu HCG, how many units should I inject for 500iu? I'm thinking about injecting it twice a week so 1000iu per week on cycle.

Appreciate any help, thank you.


----------



## Conscript

If you reconstitute 5000iu hcg with 1ml (100iu) bac water, then 10iu on the slin is 500iu hcg


----------



## NO-IDEA

Nice thread, weighing up my options at the moment. Not sure which to use, either the 5000 iu per week dose, or the docs protocol of 2500 for 8 shots. Ive been on about 24 weeks so am heavily shut down cycle prity much consisted of low dose test but i have recently upped things by going to 600 mg per week of prop. After this pct im going back to the proper protocol of 12 weeks on 8 weeks off.. I had to do the long cycle due to time between competitions.

Would you use the 2500 or the 5000 dose? and which AI would be best? I have adex to hand (i am very gyno sensitive). do I start this the day of the first hcg shot or week before hand.

Thanks for your time.


----------



## Mars

NO-IDEA said:


> Nice thread, weighing up my options at the moment. Not sure which to use, either the 5000 iu per week dose, or the docs protocol of 2500 for 8 shots. Ive been on about 24 weeks so am heavily shut down cycle prity much consisted of low dose test but i have recently upped things by going to 600 mg per week of prop. After this pct im going back to the proper protocol of 12 weeks on 8 weeks off.. I had to do the long cycle due to time between competitions.
> 
> Would you use the 2500 or the 5000 dose? and which AI would be best? I have adex to hand (i am very gyno sensitive). do I start this the day of the first hcg shot or week before hand.
> 
> Thanks for your time.


If you have read the abstract from the endocrinology society about the bi-phasic properties and the fact the if you inject more than every 4 days the testes become refractory to further stimulation then it's got to be the 5000iu once weekly for 4wks. Plenty of guys have done this protocol with great success.

Adex would be fine, as you are gyno prone, start 4-5 days before your first shot as it takes a while to reach peak serum levels.

However Hackskii has some studies that indicate nolva at 20mg ED for the 4wks may be a better option.


----------



## baggsy1436114680

Hacksii's pct thread in that you use hcg 2,500 eod for 16 days during the pct with clomid and nolva, Would the 5,000iu per shot work during pct or is this recommended before pct and than run clomid and nolva alone?


----------



## Hotdog147

baggsy said:


> Hacksii's pct thread in that you use hcg 2,500 eod for 16 days during the pct with clomid and nolva, Would the 5,000iu per shot work during pct or is this recommended before pct and than run clomid and nolva alone?


I may be wrong but I think you do the 4 shots of HCG(5000iu) then start PCT


----------



## baggsy1436114680

Hotdog147 said:


> I may be wrong but I think you do the 4 shots of HCG(5000iu) then start PCT


e.g. 12 week test cycle to keep it simple

week 10,11,12,13 hcg 5,000iu

week 14 start pct with clomid and nolva

??

If this is the case mar's what do you recommed clomid and nolva dose and length wise?

thanks


----------



## NO-IDEA

Mars said:


> If you have read the abstract from the endocrinology society about the bi-phasic properties and the fact the if you inject more than every 4 days the testes become refractory to further stimulation then it's got to be the 5000iu once weekly for 4wks. Plenty of guys have done this protocol with great success.
> 
> Adex would be fine, as you are gyno prone, start 4-5 days before your first shot as it takes a while to reach peak serum levels.
> 
> However Hackskii has some studies that indicate nolva at 20mg ED for the 4wks may be a better option.


Thanks for your reply, 5000 iu sounds almost intimidating, but if it works then that's fine!

now my second problem is that im on holiday for one week abroad from the 30th September. I was planning to start the power pct the week after my return when all the esters clear from my body (im pinning a longer ester to stop me crashing on holiday). Can i run all the other power pct dosages of nolva and clomid at the same time as the 5000 iu of HCG (after the esters clear) or should i stay on 4 extra weeks after holiday again probably test prop and take the hcg during these 4 weeks at the same time, then add the power pct dosages of nolva and clomid after the cycle ends and the 4 weeks of hcg? basicaly should i take the hcg in the last 4 weeks of my cycle then the nolva or clomid or let the esters clear, as you would with the power pct then start them all together? Bare in mind im very shut down as it is.

Sorry for the long explanation, i find this side of steroids an absolute mind field lol!


----------



## NO-IDEA

baggsy said:


> e.g. 12 week test cycle to keep it simple
> 
> week 10,11,12,13 hcg 5,000iu
> 
> week 14 start pct with clomid and nolva
> 
> ??
> 
> If this is the case mar's what do you recommed clomid and nolva dose and length wise?
> 
> thanks


prity much was i was asking, but explained much simpler lol


----------



## Goodfella

Gona run HCG throughout my cycle up to pct

My question is do I start the HCG at the start of week 2 or after 2 weeks e.g. start week 3?

so is it week 2 - 14 or 3 - 14 basically?


----------



## Mars

Goodfella said:


> Gona run HCG throughout my cycle up to pct
> 
> My question is do I start the HCG at the start of week 2 or after 2 weeks e.g. start week 3?
> 
> so is it week 2 - 14 or 3 - 14 basically?


It's not really that important, start at week 1,2 or 3, the point is that hcg is used on cycle.


----------



## Goodfella

Mars said:


> It's not really that important, start at week 1,2 or 3, the point is that hcg is used on cycle.


ok cheers


----------



## W1NNY

Just been having a read over this thread and I'm still confused (yes im pretty thick)

I have never used use HCG during cycle but recently got mentioned in the gym by one of the guys. No one had ever heard of this at all. So what exactly is it used for when on cycle? I've only ever used it on PCT. 2 weeks after my last test shot I would use HCG!! That's always been my understanding of using it of I'm totally honest!! I was advised this way by Paul Sutton (ex multiple time mr universe)

Now what's he score here? Does it bring your nuts back or does it increase gains while on cycle aswell?? I mean I've been running testoviron depot for 8 weeks now with 50mg dbol. Now would I benefit (gain wise) by running HCG now or would it just be to bring my nuts back into play??

Please help guys


----------



## Mars

W1NNY said:


> Just been having a read over this thread and I'm still confused (yes im pretty thick)
> 
> I have never used use HCG during cycle but recently got mentioned in the gym by one of the guys. No one had ever heard of this at all. So what exactly is it used for when on cycle? I've only ever used it on PCT.* 2 weeks after my last test shot I would use HCG!! That's always been my understanding of using it of I'm totally honest!! I was advised this way by Paul Sutton (ex multiple time mr universe)*
> 
> Now what's he score here? Does it bring your nuts back or does it increase gains while on cycle aswell?? I mean I've been running testoviron depot for 8 weeks now with 50mg dbol. Now would I benefit (gain wise) by running HCG now or would it just be to bring my nuts back into play??
> 
> Please help guys


Firstly, HCG can inhibit HPTA function.

Secondly, What is the point in letting testicular function shutdown before doing something about it? especially as it has many serious consequences.

What HCG does is mimic LH, this keeps the testes functioning, this improves recovery times during PCT, this in turn decreases the time it takes to recover endogenous test production, this in turn helps you keep more of your gains.

Thats part of HCG's function, no it won't improve gains but it will do the above and improve your chances of having children in the future if you wish to have them, long term testicular shutdown can make you infertile.


----------



## W1NNY

Thanks for that mate.

I do know it can cause infertility but wouldn't boosting your natural testosterone just basically cancel out any synthetic testosterone??


----------



## Mars

W1NNY said:


> Thanks for that mate.
> 
> I do know it can cause infertility but wouldn't boosting your natural testosterone just basically cancel out any synthetic testosterone??


You've lost me, i didn't say anything about boosting natural testosterone, i'm confused, can you elaborate?


----------



## W1NNY

Mars said:


> You've lost me, i didn't say anything about boosting natural testosterone, i'm confused, can you elaborate?


Right surely the HCG brings your hormones back to a more normal level right? Hence the more natural size of the nuts?? So the normal testosterone production is orifices? Or have I read it wrong what it actually does?? I might look thick here but surely that's what it's for?? To bring hormones back to normal??


----------



## Mars

W1NNY said:


> Right surely the HCG brings your hormones back to a more normal level right? Hence the more natural size of the nuts?? So the normal testosterone production is orifices? Or have I read it wrong what it actually does?? I might look thick here but surely that's what it's for?? To bring hormones back to normal??


What it's for is to mimic LH whilst on cycle as natural LH is suppressed, this keeps the testes functioning.

Let me try simplify it.

HPTA function, this is what you are trying to get back after cycle. Now i assume you know what HPTA stands for, so if the T part (testicular) is not working then the PCT meds you are going to use to influence the negative feedback loop of the hypothalmus so that it starts sending GnRH signalling to the pituitary to realease LH and FSH arent going to work as well if there is a break in the chain (IE: the testicular part), if the testes are kept functioning then come PCT time the leydig cell receptors don't have any problems accepting the LH again so recovery time post cycle is improved.


----------



## W1NNY

Right yeah I get it. I simply thought HCG was to just kick start your natural testosterone production xx


----------



## W1NNY

Ignore the kisses haha. Texting my bird at the same time... Habit!!


----------



## hackskii

Kind of think of your nuts like they are atrophied.

Like lets say you break your arm, they put it in a cast, the arm is not being used (just like your nuts on cycle with no HCG), once you get the cast off after 6 weeks lets say it does not work like it normally would (due to atrophy), it will take time to get back to normal.

Think of your nuts like that, do not function like normal when you are trying to use them.

Sorry for the nuts and broken arm scenario, just the best way for me to explain it.


----------



## W1NNY

Haha I'm getting it. I've been cycling gear for 2 years now since I was 21 and I've always used HCG 2/3 weeks after cycle. So Would me using the HCG now help me maintain more of my gains than I usually do?


----------



## MrWibble

Im gonna be using 2500iu twice a week for blast pct... can i use the solvent water that comes with it since i only need to keep it for 3 days at a time?

if i mix the sterile water with the 5000iu use 2500iu straight away and the other 2500iu 3 days later will it still be good to use? (my hcg comes in 5000iu amps)


----------



## Hotdog147

MrWibble said:


> Im gonna be using 2500iu twice a week for blast pct... can i use the solvent water that comes with it since i only need to keep it for 3 days at a time?
> 
> if i mix the sterile water with the 5000iu use 2500iu straight away and the other 2500iu 3 days later will it still be good to use? (my hcg comes in 5000iu amps)


The sterile water is intended for immediate use so just freeze the other half to be on the safe side...


----------



## MrWibble

Hotdog147 said:


> The sterile water is intended for immediate use so just freeze the other half to be on the safe side...


ah okay thats alright then might make it easier for me, what about when i want the frozen one, just leave out on the day im gonna jab and wait for it to return to liquid?

and out of curiosity what happens if it's not frozen and not used immediately


----------



## Hotdog147

MrWibble said:


> ah okay thats alright then might make it easier for me, what about when i want the frozen one, just leave out on the day im gonna jab and wait for it to return to liquid?
> 
> and out of curiosity what happens if it's not frozen and not used immediately


It takes about 5mins to defrost mate

And to your second question.....fcuk knows! Try it out and report back! Lol


----------



## Mars

MrWibble said:


> ah okay thats alright then might make it easier for me, what about when i want the frozen one, just leave out on the day im gonna jab and wait for it to return to liquid?
> 
> and out of curiosity what happens if it's not frozen and not used immediately


Because sterile water ( unlike bac water) doesn't contain benzyl alcohol the chances of bacteria breeding are very high.


----------



## MrWibble

Mars said:


> Because sterile water ( unlike bac water) doesn't contain benzyl alcohol the chances of bacteria breeding are very high.


But freezing the pins will be okay to use you recon?


----------



## Mars

MrWibble said:


> But freezing the pins will be okay to use you recon?


Yes it's fine, thats why freezing is recommended if you only have sterile water.


----------



## MrWibble

Mars said:


> Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
> 
> This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
> 
> Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
> 
> An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.
> 
> I do have some scientific evidence that a 6000iu shot increased testosterone by 50% but did not alter the T > E ratio.
> 
> In fact some athletes have used hcg at 5000iu weekly while coming off cycle to successfully balance the T > E ratio.
> 
> I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that a single 10000iu shot desensitized the leydig cells for 96hrs.


Im doing 2500iu every 3 days of hcg, would it be better to do 5000iu once a week?


----------



## MrWibble

bump


----------



## W1NNY

MrWibble said:


> bump


I personally do 3 times a week mate


----------



## Goodfella

just wondering guys/anyone who can help, how long roughly will it take for a slin pin to defrost? and is it ok to use bac water and freeze? probs silly questions but want to be sure lol


----------



## hackskii

Goodfella said:


> just wondering guys/anyone who can help, how long roughly will it take for a slin pin to defrost? and is it ok to use bac water and freeze? probs silly questions but want to be sure lol


Bac water it will stay good in the fridge for up to 6 weeks time.


----------



## RadMan23

But does bac water on its own have to be refrigerated or can it be stored in the cupboard?


----------



## Goodfella

hackskii said:


> Bac water it will stay good in the fridge for up to 6 weeks time.


err so you can freeze it?


----------



## Elvis82

Hi guys. If you are on year round, blasting for 12-16 weeks at a time and cruising for 8-12 weeks. What's the best HCG dosage? 1000iu every week non stop? I've heard people say its not needed during cruise etc. just wondered what the best method was, I'm slightly concerned about desensitisation. Also would taking 1 nolva tab with each weekly injection be of any benefit for the leydig cells? Thanks in advance.


----------



## NO-IDEA

Posted this in the wrong thread just a silly question Just preparing for my blast pct, all the tools in place etc. Now when i come to prepare the HCG im using vials with the rubber stops (not single use snap tops) when im preparing and mixing the bacs water can i just put the 2ml of water straight into this vial then draw straight out and inject, then same again with the remaining 2500 iu a couple days later? what i mean is there no need to draw the 5000 iu out and into a new serile vial? obviously after the first dose is drawn out id put the remaining 2500 iu in the fridge.


----------



## Hotdog147

NO-IDEA said:


> Posted this in the wrong thread just a silly question Just preparing for my blast pct, all the tools in place etc. Now when i come to prepare the HCG im using vials with the rubber stops (not single use snap tops) when im preparing and mixing the bacs water can i just put the 2ml of water straight into this vial then draw straight out and inject, then same again with the remaining 2500 iu a couple days later? what i mean is there no need to draw the 5000 iu out and into a new serile vial? obviously after the first dose is drawn out id put the remaining 2500 iu in the fridge.


It's fine mate


----------



## gujkhan

I have some hcg pregnyl 5000iu, i dont have any bac water. I am wanting to jab 5,000iu per shot i take it it would be okay to just use the water supplied with the hcg and jab it all at once?

I am currently on adex will be starting pct after this 5,000iu hcg blast for 4 shots. Would it be wise to throw in nolva at 20mg per day or eod to prevent any possible gyno as the hcg shots are big, last thing i want before the cycle is to get gyno. thanks alot


----------



## Mars

gujkhan said:


> I have some hcg pregnyl 5000iu, i dont have any bac water. I am wanting to jab 5,000iu per shot i take it it would be okay to just use the water supplied with the hcg and jab it all at once?
> 
> I am currently on adex will be starting pct after this 5,000iu hcg blast for 4 shots. Would it be wise to throw in nolva at 20mg per day or eod to prevent any possible gyno as the hcg shots are big, last thing i want before the cycle is to get gyno. thanks alot


Yes you can add the nolva at 20mg or just keep taking the adex till PCT.


----------



## baggsy1436114680

whatst he half life of hcg?


----------



## Goodfella

Just about to mix my HCG, 1ml in 5000iu's an ok measure???


----------



## Mars

baggsy said:


> whatst he half life of hcg?


It doesn't have a half life as such, it's bi-phasic.


----------



## Dead lee

Alright mars iv been on cycle blast & cruise for 9 months iv used hcg at 1000 iu throughout, lower dose at 500 iu when i was cruising.

Im planning to come off within the next 6 weeks or so, do you think using anymore hcg at the end of the cycle (ie a few bigger shots of hcg for a few weeks would be beneficial) or just run nolva & clomid?


----------



## Mars

Dead lee said:


> Alright mars iv been on cycle blast & cruise for 9 months iv used hcg at 1000 iu throughout, lower dose at 500 iu when i was cruising.
> 
> Im planning to come off within the next 6 weeks or so, do you think using anymore hcg at the end of the cycle (ie a few bigger shots of hcg for a few weeks would be beneficial) or just run nolva & clomid?


Carry on with 1000iu till you start PCT mate.


----------



## Dead lee

Mars said:


> Carry on with 1000iu till you start PCT mate.


Ok thanks mars


----------



## Fit4life

where can one source this ?


----------



## B3NNY

Ive read latly alot of people saying hcg is fine kept at room temperture... i have the problem with living with parents at the moment and i dont think they would be to happy with it in there fridge lol.

I would propose to keep it tucked away in a air tight box out of any light, would it still keep? I could keep it in the car temps are hardly reaching double figures here at the moment.


----------



## hackskii

B3NNY said:


> Ive read latly alot of people saying hcg is fine kept at room temperture... i have the problem with living with parents at the moment and i dont think they would be to happy with it in there fridge lol.
> 
> I would propose to keep it tucked away in a air tight box out of any light, would it still keep? I could keep it in the car temps are hardly reaching double figures here at the moment.


Will it still keep if mixed?

No

It can be stored unmixed at cool dry place, once mixed, you gotta fridge that.


----------



## musio

B3NNY said:


> Ive read latly alot of people saying hcg is fine kept at room temperture... i have the problem with living with parents at the moment and i dont think they would be to happy with it in there fridge lol.
> 
> I would propose to keep it tucked away in a air tight box out of any light, would it still keep? I could keep it in the car temps are hardly reaching double figures here at the moment.


see two threads below mate @B3NNY

FRÍO bags ( frio ) to store HCG

HCG mixing every time throughout instead of storing in a fridge

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/199920-hcg-mixing-every-time-throughout-instead-storing-fridge.html

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/199917-fr-o-bags-frio-store-hcg.html


----------



## NO-IDEA

Hi guys, due to start back on cycle on the weekend. I will be dosing hcg at 1000 iu per week for the duration of the cycle, should i take nolva at 10 mg alongside this per day in case of desensitization issues?


----------



## Mars

NO-IDEA said:


> Hi guys, due to start back on cycle on the weekend. I will be dosing hcg at 1000 iu per week for the duration of the cycle, should i take nolva at 10 mg alongside this per day in case of desensitization issues?


No need mate, 1000iu a week is not excessive and the whole point of once weekly shots is so that the leydig cells aren't desensitized by the time you take your next shot.


----------



## NO-IDEA

NO-IDEA said:


> Hi guys, due to start back on cycle on the weekend. I will be dosing hcg at 1000 iu per week for the duration of the cycle, should i take nolva at 10 mg alongside this per day in case of desensitization issues?


Excellant, thanks


----------



## Ballin

@Mars ,

Seems you are the man with the plan- basically I am planning on running 5-600mg of Test E for 12 weeks in the coming months (first injectable cycle). My source says he is struggling to get hold of hCG but says running the Nolva on cycle should be sufficient to keep everything all good.

Originally I had planned to do the 12 weeks then blast the hCG at the end for 2 weeks at 500IU per everyother day but I think I prefer your 1,000IU per week in one shot to make sure everything is ticking along and then have a 2 week break before starting my Clomid/Nolva PCT.

Am I right in thinking that my source is incorrect and that I really should seek some hCG prior to beginning this.


----------



## Mars

Ballin said:


> @Mars ,
> 
> Seems you are the man with the plan- basically I am planning on running 5-600mg of Test E for 12 weeks in the coming months (first injectable cycle). My source says he is struggling to get hold of hCG *but says running the Nolva on cycle should be sufficient to keep everything all good. *
> 
> Originally I had planned to do the 12 weeks then blast the hCG at the end for 2 weeks at 500IU per everyother day but I think I prefer your 1,000IU per week in one shot to make sure everything is ticking along and then have a 2 week break before starting my Clomid/Nolva PCT.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that my source is incorrect and that I really should seek some hCG prior to beginning this.


He is talking out of his ar5e :lol: all nolva does is bind too some estrogen receptors, mainly estrogen receptors in breast tissue, thats it.

I would strongly advise the 1000iu once weekly on cycle till you start PCT, if you really cant do this then use the blast method of 5000iu once weekly for 4wks before PCT.


----------



## Ballin

Mars said:


> He is talking out of his ar5e :lol: all nolva does is bind too some estrogen receptors, mainly estrogen receptors in breast tissue, thats it.
> 
> I would strongly advise the 1000iu once weekly on cycle till you start PCT, if you really cant do this then use the blast method of 5000iu once weekly for 4wks before PCT.


Haha I thought as much. I'll be on the case- just read through this thread and shinkage is defo not acceptable for me!! I prefer the 1000uy every week method definately I wanna keep things as normal as possible on this run.

Perhaps he is trying to cock block me haha

Reps sent- very much appreciated mate.


----------



## no-way

Does it matter the time of day HCG is taken? Also, should it be done at a different time to pinning test? Or does it not matter?

Thanks,


----------



## no-way

@Mars

Also, I was ready to take HCG seperately (stomach) but have seen that others seem to take it in the same barrel as their test (so IM)...

That sounds much more appealing to be honest, any pro's and con's to that?


----------



## hackskii

Either way sub-Q or IM

I notice HCG seemed to work the best at mid afternoon, but then it kept me awake so I had to do morning shots (during PCT).


----------



## no-way

Kept you awake? Interesting...

I think i'll go with the test and HCG mix once a week.


----------



## kettlebell

Hi Hackskii,

Are you able to PM me if possible? I have a couple of questions re this topic. Thanks!


----------



## Mars

kettlebell said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> Are you able to PM me if possible? I have a couple of questions re this topic. Thanks!


You cannot recieve PM's, you don't have enough posts.

Why can't you ask on here?


----------



## hackskii

kettlebell said:


> Hi Hackskii,
> 
> Are you able to PM me if possible? I have a couple of questions re this topic. Thanks!


This is Mars thread, ask here.


----------



## Richyk

Much helped post.


----------



## Mr_Morocco

@Mars

@hackskii

If im taking Arimidex 1mg EOD do i still need Nolva whilst taking HCG once weekly?


----------



## hackskii

Not if you are taking an AI.


----------



## kettlebell

Just saw your posts, Thanks Hackskii and mars,

I am new to all of this stuff and im just trying to get my head around different scenarios of pct and the reasons why.

I have seen the protocol Hackskii recommends for PCT when a complete shut down has occurred. If someone had significant atrophy and had not used hcg during cycle but was not completely shut down I assume the above complete shut down PCT (16days EoD HCG and CLomid,Nolva etc) is overkill.

To bring the boys back up to their original size before PCT is once a week for 4 weeks @ about 1000iu HCG a good starting point? I understand its all trial and error to find a personal optimal level/response to dosage but is this a good ballpark starting point? If not, what would be?

Cheers guys!


----------



## dawun

I'm afraid that the HCG+Nolva is not good for me. Always when I use big red scary acne coming out on my chest and just few on my read delts, but more on the chest. I'm on blast cruise and want to keep my ball size working, that why I use the HCG.And the Nolva to beat gyno with the HCG. These big red scary acnes when coming out they are here for a month and +. But when I not use HCG+Nolva no acne. I have pharmaceutical adex would be that better? I'm afraid use it again the HCG+Nolva,because these big red scary acne. What do you think?


----------



## kettlebell

When a rapid increase in metabolism occurs, which is something that most certainly happens with the increased ratio of test to estrogen thanks to the Nolva nutrients become important. Test promotes an increased metabolism and high estrogen reduces it because it is a stress hormone. This is one of the big reasons why vitamin E is so effective. It is labled "Antioxidant" bt it is actually specifically "Anti Estrogen".

A vitamin A deficiency is a big player in regards to skin health and its ability to resist bacteria causing infection on its surface. Considering that the skin is our biggest endocrine gland thats pretty important.

This is why many teenage boys going through puberty break out with spots. Their metabolisms are massively ramped up due to the androgenic hormones and if they are not eating enough of the nutrient dense foods (Eggs, Dairy, fruit, gelatinous meats etc) they start getting symptoms of various nutrient deficiencies - The most common being acne. Another common one thanks to our generally calorie rich nutrient poor diets is teenage depression. Eating liver a couple of times a week gives you plenty of A + a whole load of other great vits and minerals. You can get topical Vitamin A too if you don't like liver.

Might be worth a try!


----------



## hackskii

kettlebell said:


> When a rapid increase in metabolism occurs, which is something that most certainly happens with the increased ratio of test to estrogen thanks to the Nolva nutrients become important. Test promotes an increased metabolism and high estrogen reduces it because it is a stress hormone. This is one of the big reasons why vitamin E is so effective.* It is labled "Antioxidant" bt it is actually specifically "Anti Estrogen".*
> 
> A vitamin A deficiency is a big player in regards to skin health and its ability to resist bacteria causing infection on its surface. Considering that the skin is our biggest endocrine gland thats pretty important.
> 
> This is why many teenage boys going through puberty break out with spots. Their metabolisms are massively ramped up due to the androgenic hormones and if they are not eating enough of the nutrient dense foods (Eggs, Dairy, fruit, gelatinous meats etc) they start getting symptoms of various nutrient deficiencies - The most common being acne. Another common one thanks to our generally calorie rich nutrient poor diets is teenage depression. Eating liver a couple of times a week gives you plenty of A + a whole load of other great vits and minerals. You can get topical Vitamin A too if you don't like liver.
> 
> Might be worth a try!


In red, vitamin E is not an anti-estrogen.

The other part about acne is very much to do with Sebaceous glands, and the over production of sebum, not necesarrily due to vitamin deficiencies, hence why they give teens accutane with good results regardless of diet.

Vitamin A stores in the body and is not a common deficiency.


----------



## dawun

hackskii and Mars what do you guys think about that big red scary acne, on HCG and Nolva? Nolva instead Adex would be the better choice?


----------



## hackskii

dawun said:


> hackskii and Mars what do you guys think about that big red scary acne, on HCG and Nolva? Nolva instead Adex would be the better choice?


Acne is probably hormonal, and is caused from the sebaceous gland secreting sebum.

Try some milk of magnesia applied directly to affected area, and sun tanning would be helpful.

As far as it being HCG, and or nolva, probably not too likely.


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> Acne is probably hormonal, and is caused from the sebaceous gland secreting sebum.
> 
> Try some milk of magnesia applied directly to affected area, and sun tanning would be helpful.
> 
> As far as it being HCG, and or nolva, probably not too likely.


The acne coming out always when I use the Nolva and HCG. I think it's the Nolva, or HCG aahh


----------



## hackskii

dawun said:


> The acne coming out always when I use the Nolva and HCG. I think it's the Nolva


Sure it is not a shift in hormones?


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> Sure it is not a shift in hormones?


Sure it is, what causes the nolva and hcg


----------



## dawun

I quit the use of the nolva with the hcg and I will use adex with hcg. And see what's happening


----------



## hackskii

dawun said:


> I quit the use of the nolva with the hcg and I will use adex with hcg. And see what's happening


I would suggest clomid over nolva any day, but I use both together.

I use an AI during the cycle, SERMS post cycle.


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> I would suggest clomid over nolva any day, but I use both together.
> 
> I use an AI during the cycle, SERMS post cycle.


I'm currently blasting. Good that I not got gyno. I just use Proviron, and HCG with Nolva. And I have pharmaceutic adex, but I like the proviron. The red acne only flares up when I use HCG and Nolva on my chest for a month. Maybe because the 500-750iu hcg and 20mg nolva?


----------



## dawun

80mg nolva on pct in april caused serious red chest acne. Used roaccutane but was not good. I went to the dermatologist etc. But now not so serious but it is irritating red acne on chest. On hcg and nolva 20mg


----------



## dawun

What do you think alpha hcg is better than the standard hcg?


----------



## dawun

Mods delete please these bunk post


----------



## dawun

nolva or the hcg cause this red acne flare, or both? :cursing:


----------



## hackskii

First, nobody ever needs to take 80mg of nolva a day.

In fact I never even heard of one person doing that.

Why did you think 80mg of nolva was needed?


----------



## dawun

hackskii said:


> First, nobody ever needs to take 80mg of nolva a day.
> 
> In fact I never even heard of one person doing that.
> 
> Why did you think 80mg of nolva was needed?


 I done an aggressive PCT,for better recovery. I was used HCG 750iu eod and 500iu eod for 4 weeks, and Nolva 80mg and then 60mg for few days,50mg and 40/40/30/20/20


----------



## hackskii

dawun said:


> I done an aggressive PCT,for better recovery. I was used HCG 750iu eod and 500iu eod for 4 weeks, and Nolva 80mg and then 60mg for few days,50mg and 40/40/30/20/20


That is not aggressive, HCG could be too low, nolva way to high, and you probably would have fared better with the addition of clomid.

SERMS cant do what HCG does in the time it is used.


----------



## dawun

Well, what causes this red acne flare's on the chest, the HCG or Nolva or both?


----------



## Mars

dawun said:


> Well, what causes this red acne flare's on the chest, the HCG or Nolva or both?


Neither.

An hormonal imbalance causes acne, just think about it, ever heard of puberty, you know, when guys and girls of a certain age start breaking out in zits :lol: .


----------



## dawun

If I use less HCG, ie 250iu 2xweek? I always used 650-750iu 2x. Because the NaCl water solution.


----------



## Mars

dawun said:


> If I use less HCG, ie 250iu 2xweek? I always used 650-750iu 2x. Because the NaCl water solution.


read what i just told you.


----------



## dawun

Mars said:


> Neither.
> 
> An hormonal imbalance causes acne, just think about it, ever heard of puberty, you know, when guys and girls of a certain age start breaking out in zits :lol: .


Not so funny this red acne on the chest:mad:


----------



## dawun

Mars said:


> read what i just told you.


Yeah I know but I'm not in the puberty


----------



## Mars

dawun said:


> Yeah I know but I'm not in the puberty


Really, thats around the age i would have guessed by your posts :whistling: .


----------



## Chris86

Just got hold of some hcg I'm at my 9th week of test at 500mg pw (I know should have used it from the start) have some ball shrinkage ,I'm going to start this at 1000ui pw and keep running test for 5-10 more weeks , will my ball size come back even when still on cycle ? I'm using adex at .5mg ed hoping this will be ok with hcg but I can ajust it if needed


----------



## Ash1981

It will start to come back yea, you should notice a difference


----------



## Chris86

ash1981 said:


> It will start to come back yea, you should notice a difference


Happy days, tbh as long as it stops then shrinking any more il be happy , no idea y I never used hcg from the start thought it was not really needed , lesion learnt


----------



## mattske

Guys! There is so much talk and different opinions on preferred dosing of HCG while *on cycle*, which seems to have changed between everything I've read and over the years.

Can someone ( @hackskii @Mars ) please give their opinion on the best protocol for on cycle HCG usage, i.e.

1000iu Once Weekly

500iu Once Weekly

500iu Twice Weekly

250iu Twice Weekly

I've read that too much can actually have a negative effect?

Have been working on ~1000iu / week the last 8 weeks, was time to draw up another batch of pins and have set them out in 500iu doses with the intention of doing every 3.5 days (along with my jabs)

Latest and greatest opinions and knowledge greatly appreciated!

Also, how you would run it after a 16-20 week Test Dbol (or possibly the addition of One Rip & XXX (dbol/winny/oxy) for the remaining 4-6 weeks as part of PCT.

Cheers,

Mattske


----------



## hackskii

I use it 500iu twice a week throughout, and even till the start of PCT while the gear is clearing.

How many weeks with the dbol?


----------



## mattske

hackskii said:


> I use it 500iu twice a week throughout, and even till the start of PCT while the gear is clearing.
> 
> How many weeks with the dbol?


Okay awesome, that was my thinking doing them up in 500's, 2xweekly.

Dbol was first 6 weeks, had a bit of a rest now. Might pick it back up, or go with the XXX's as suggested. Also, how much does tren fcuk things up? I realise *a lot*, but I mean in terms of HCG / PCT, how different would it be?

Cheers mate,

Mattske


----------



## hackskii

mattske said:


> Okay awesome, that was my thinking doing them up in 500's, 2xweekly.
> 
> Dbol was first 6 weeks, had a bit of a rest now. Might pick it back up, or go with the XXX's as suggested. Also, how much does tren fcuk things up? I realise *a lot*, but I mean in terms of HCG / PCT, how different would it be?
> 
> Cheers mate,
> 
> Mattske


That depends on the person, but tren messes a bunch of people up, more are suggesting this lately, seen some crazy things.


----------



## hackskii

mattske said:


> Okay awesome, that was my thinking doing them up in 500's, 2xweekly.
> 
> Dbol was first 6 weeks, had a bit of a rest now. Might pick it back up, or go with the XXX's as suggested. Also, how much does tren fcuk things up? I realise *a lot*, but I mean in terms of HCG / PCT, how different would it be?
> 
> Cheers mate,
> 
> Mattske


That depends on the person, but tren messes a bunch of people up, more are suggesting this lately, seen some crazy things.


----------



## Englishman

Cheers for the thread, very useful information. :thumb:


----------



## Jamming

I have some DRS labs hcg which is just powder inside a sterile vial. Can this be stored add room temp until it is reconstituted using bac water? Or is it best to store it in the fridge at all times? It says to store at 2-5 degrees on the bottle but I thought it could be stored at room temperature? What is best to do ? Cheers.


----------



## Mars

Jamming said:


> I have some DRS labs hcg which is just powder inside a sterile vial. Can this be stored add room temp until it is reconstituted using bac water? Or is it best to store it in the fridge at all times? It says to store at 2-5 degrees on the bottle but I thought it could be stored at room temperature? What is best to do ? Cheers.


I always store it in the fridge, but pregnyl guidelines are 2-15c so it can be stored in a cool room, but i always err on the side of caution.


----------



## Ballin

Currently in Week 1 into 100mg Var and 600mg Test E I am thinking starting my hCG at the end of week 2 as Test E takes 3 weeks to really kick in...is this the right idea or am I best going for it from the start jut to be on the careful side?

Also I have not got slin pins just blues- plan to jab into belly fat as per people's recommendations- assume the needle wont make a difference...or is this floored logic?


----------



## Chris86

Ballin said:


> Currently in Week 1 into 100mg Var and 600mg Test E I am thinking starting my hCG at the end of week 2 as Test E takes 3 weeks to really kick in...is this the right idea or am I best going for it from the start jut to be on the careful side?
> 
> Also I have not got slin pins just blues- plan to jab into belly fat as per people's recommendations- assume the needle wont make a difference...or is this floored logic?


Sounds fine to me mate , u use slin pins but I find drawing the hcg blunts the hell outa them lol


----------



## Ballin

Chris86 said:


> Sounds fine to me mate , u use slin pins but I find drawing the hcg blunts the hell outa them lol


Legend- ain't bout the ball shrinkage!

I got 100 blues so when I did the test I drew it into the barrel then changed the pin and jabbed- maybe anal but keeps it sharp and sterile!


----------



## Chris86

Ballin said:


> Legend- ain't bout the ball shrinkage!
> 
> I got 100 blues so when I did the test I drew it into the barrel then changed the pin and jabbed- maybe anal but keeps it sharp and sterile!


I do the same with test , can't change the pin on slins tho  lol


----------



## SoFar-SoNatural

any advise for HCG amounts to use on a VAR only course? var does suppress and does cause atrophy which id rather avoid. help appreciated


----------



## yippeekayay

great thread! am going to be running prop @ 500mg/ wk for 12 weeks and var @ 100.g wks 1-8, sbould i start my hcg from day 1 or wait a couple of [email protected] also would 500iu/wk split into 2 jabs be enough for this cycle or should i up it to 1000iu.split into 2 jabs? cheers guys. Btw this is my 2nd cycle, my 1st was just test 400 @ 1.5ml/wk and i did not use hcg.


----------



## Guest

I stupidly mixed my 5000iu with 10ml making it 250 iu per .5ml.

Not sure why, I've done it enough times.

Anyways it ok to use the same slin for 2 x shots one after the other?


----------



## Jamming

Mars said:


> I always store it in the fridge, but pregnyl guidelines are 2-15c so it can be stored in a cool room, but i always err on the side of caution.


I will start my HCG at week 2. Am I better off doing it every 4 days or twice weekly on Sun morning an wed night? Also most places ive read suggest 500iu twice weekly. Do you think 250iu twice weekly would be sufficient for a test only cycle 500mg/weekly? Im a little worried about gyno flare up so was thinking of starting with 500iu per week and increase to 1000iu if needed. Or would you advise to start 1000iu? Thanks


----------



## RadMan23

Jamming said:


> I will start my HCG at week 2. Am I better off doing it every 4 days or twice weekly on Sun morning an wed night? Also most places ive read suggest 500iu twice weekly. Do you think 250iu twice weekly would be sufficient for a test only cycle 500mg/weekly? Im a little worried about gyno flare up so was thinking of starting with 500iu per week and increase to 1000iu if needed. Or would you advise to start 1000iu? Thanks


HCG keeps your testicles working it wont protect you from gyno.

For gyno you need an A.I. such as adex.

500ui twice a week will be fine.


----------



## Jamming

RadMan23 said:


> HCG keeps your testicles working it wont protect you from gyno.
> 
> For gyno you need an A.I. such as adex.
> 
> 500ui twice a week will be fine.


Sorry for the confusion. I am taking adex 0.5mg EOD to keep gyno at bay but considering lowering that to 0.25 EOD. My worry was the HCG causing gyno as I have read that it can!


----------



## clarky81

Jamming said:


> Sorry for the confusion. I am taking adex 0.5mg EOD to keep gyno at bay but considering lowering that to 0.25 EOD. My worry was the HCG causing gyno as I have read that it can!


Hcg can cause gyno as you said 2x 250iu a week is fine lots of ppl do that my self included. But every bodys different if you get bad shrinkage just do 3x 250 iu pw theres no need for 1000iu per week imo.


----------



## Incabus78

Im not trying to get steroids just would like someone to give me the time of day to answer a few questions. Have had bad luck on here as those members who have responded to me seem so smug that they know it all they have no time to help ? Seems to defeat the objective of having "help" forums. Anyways will try again. I would just like to know if oral steroids like dianabol or winstrol for example can compare to injectable testosterones ? There's a lot of guys at our gym who take gear. They are in two camps. Those who blow up month to month and then deflate after a few weeks and others who have the full bodybuilder physique ( Thick vainy arms v taper and little body fat ). These guys seem to have more quality "real" muscle tissue. Is this because they are taking injectable testosterone or is it simply they have been doing it longer ? Apologies if these are stupid questions but as I said Im very new to this. Thanks


----------



## ditz

Spawn of Haney said:


> I stupidly mixed my 5000iu with 10ml making it 250 iu per .5ml.
> 
> Not sure why, I've done it enough times.
> 
> Anyways it ok to use the same slin for 2 x shots one after the other?


I don't know if it's the 'done thing' mate but I do 2x IM jabs with the same slin pwo all the time, just swab each area do one then the other.. Not had an issue yet (not wishing to jinx it :lol: )


----------



## AndyTee

Good post.


----------



## smithy33

all this hcg stuff is mind boggling, i have 2 x 5000iu amps of hcg and was going to use 1 each week at end of cycle. is this enough and is it the right time to use??? thanks

I am currently using 200mg organon deca and 1ml of omnedron per week for 13 weeks im now at week 9


----------



## Mars

Incabus78 said:


> Im not trying to get steroids* just would like someone to give me the time of day to answer a few questions.* Have had bad luck on here as those members who have responded to me seem so smug that they know it all they have no time to help ? Seems to defeat the objective of having "help" forums. Anyways will try again. I would just like to know if oral steroids like dianabol or winstrol for example can compare to injectable testosterones ? There's a lot of guys at our gym who take gear. They are in two camps. Those who blow up month to month and then deflate after a few weeks and others who have the full bodybuilder physique ( Thick vainy arms v taper and little body fat ). These guys seem to have more quality "real" muscle tissue. Is this because they are taking injectable testosterone or is it simply they have been doing it longer ? Apologies if these are stupid questions but as I said Im very new to this. Thanks


Try starting a thread rather than making an irrelevant post i my sticky, this was written for people to read, discuss and ask questions about hCG and it use.

You will get answers to your questions, just ignore the smug attitude of some of the members, they forget that they were all newbies once.


----------



## Mars

smithy33 said:


> all this hcg stuff is mind boggling, i have 2 x 5000iu amps of hcg and was going to use 1 each week at end of cycle. is this enough and is it the right time to use??? thanks
> 
> I am currently using 200mg organon deca and 1ml of omnedron per week for 13 weeks im now at week 9


Not really.

You ideally need another 10000iu and start now with 1000iu p/w or start using 5000iu p/w 4wks out from starting PCT.


----------



## benki11

I use 1000 iu hcg from first week of my tren test winny cycle 2 month now and cycle will last for 4 months ,now can I still do power pct at the end of my cycle or that would be counterproductive ?


----------



## Mars

benki11 said:


> I use 1000 iu hcg from first week of my tren test winny cycle 2 month now and cycle will last for 4 months ,now can I still do power pct at the end of my cycle or that would be counterproductive ?


It's either or, if you run it on cycle you dont need to blast at the end, thats the whole point of using it on cycle.


----------



## pdoubleg

With regards to mixing HCG is bac water the better option? My HCG didn't come with any sterile water, which I thought it would. I was planning on mixing 2.5ml sterile water per 5000iu to give me 1000iu per .5ml and then freezing it in the syringes. I'm gonna have to order some bac water or sterile water - can both be frozen as above and defrosted when needed?

Also started my 1st test e 500mg cycle last night, should I start my HCG now or next week and what is the best protocol 2x500iu or just 1x1000iu per week?


----------



## Mars

pdoubleg said:


> With regards to mixing HCG is bac water the better option? My HCG didn't come with any sterile water, which I thought it would. I was planning on mixing 2.5ml sterile water per 5000iu to give me 1000iu per .5ml and then freezing it in the syringes. I'm gonna have to order some bac water or sterile water - can both be frozen as above and defrosted when needed?
> 
> Also started my 1st test e 500mg cycle last night, should I start my HCG now or next week and what is the best protocol 2x500iu or just 1x1000iu per week?


If you get sterile water do the slins and freeze if bacwater just refrigerate.

Either mate on dosing, whatever you prefer basically.

Start now or next week mate, it won't make any difference.


----------



## pdoubleg

Mars said:


> If you get sterile water do the slins and freeze if bacwater just refrigerate.
> 
> Either mate on dosing, whatever you prefer basically.
> 
> Start now or next week mate, it won't make any difference.


Cheers for clearing that up mate. Have just ordered the sterile water so will be freezing them ready to go.


----------



## Jamming

Quick question....I'm at the end of a 12 week test e cycle in the second week of clearance. I've been taken HCG twice weekly on a wed and Sun. I last took it on wed and I'm due to start PCT on monday. Question is, should I take one more shot of HCG on sunday the day before PCT or should I stop now, having taken the last one on Wed?

Thanks fellas.


----------



## Jamming

Quick question....I'm at the end of a 12 week test e cycle in the second week of clearance. I've been taken HCG twice weekly on a wed and Sun. I last took it on wed and I'm due to start PCT on monday. Question is, should I take one more shot of HCG on sunday the day before PCT or should I stop now, having taken the last one on Wed?

Thanks fellas.


----------



## hackskii

Jamming said:


> Quick question....I'm at the end of a 12 week test e cycle in the second week of clearance. I've been taken HCG twice weekly on a wed and Sun. I last took it on wed and I'm due to start PCT on monday. Question is, should I take one more shot of HCG on sunday the day before PCT or should I stop now, having taken the last one on Wed?
> 
> Thanks fellas.


Sure you can.


----------



## Jamming

hackskii said:


> Sure you can.


Do you reccomend taking one more on Sunday? Not looking forward to PCT!!


----------



## Jutt

Just a quick one if anyone can help, going to be taking 1000iu's a week protocal on my next test e/anavar cycle from week 2. Am i right in thinking if i have a vial of 5000iu's mix it with 5ml it can then be stored in the fridge & i can draw up 1000ius from the vial each week?also i'm going to be mixing it with my test e & injecting. Informative sticky cheers mars!


----------



## hackskii

Jamming said:


> Do you reccomend taking one more on Sunday? Not looking forward to PCT!!


A bit late but yes


----------



## MA1984

@hackskii

I'm currently planning a year long cycle, I was wondering how often and how much HCG to use throughout my cycle. MY cycle is stated below. Hopefully you can help me. Thanks

Weeks 1 and 2 250mg DNP, 80mcg Clen, 50mcg T3 ed

Weeks 5 and 6 250mg DNP, 80mcg Clen, 50mcg T3 ed

Weeks 9 and 10 250mg DNP, 80mcg Clen, 50mcg T3 ed

I will change the dosage of DNP accordingly throughout the cycle

Now the Muscle building:

Weeks 1-12

200mg test prop eod

200mg tren ace eod

30mg dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off

Weeks 12-24

800mg test ethanate EW

800mg tren ethanate EW

100mg oxys 4 weeks on 4 weeks off

Weeks 24-48

1g test ethanate EW

40mg dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off

Weeks 48-52

300mg test prop eod

200mg tren ace eod

200mg mast prop eod

80mcg clen ed, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off

50mcg T3 ed, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off


----------



## Mars

MA1984 said:


> @hackskii
> 
> I'm currently planning a year long cycle, I was wondering how often and how much HCG to use throughout my cycle. MY cycle is stated below. Hopefully you can help me. Thanks
> 
> Weeks 1 and 2 250mg DNP, 80mcg Clen, 50mcg T3 ed
> 
> Weeks 5 and 6 250mg DNP, 80mcg Clen, 50mcg T3 ed
> 
> Weeks 9 and 10 250mg DNP, 80mcg Clen, 50mcg T3 ed
> 
> I will change the dosage of DNP accordingly throughout the cycle
> 
> Now the Muscle building:
> 
> Weeks 1-12
> 
> 200mg test prop eod
> 
> 200mg tren ace eod
> 
> 30mg dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off
> 
> Weeks 12-24
> 
> 800mg test ethanate EW
> 
> 800mg tren ethanate EW
> 
> 100mg oxys 4 weeks on 4 weeks off
> 
> Weeks 24-48
> 
> 1g test ethanate EW
> 
> 40mg dbol 4 weeks on 4 weeks off
> 
> Weeks 48-52
> 
> 300mg test prop eod
> 
> 200mg tren ace eod
> 
> 200mg mast prop eod
> 
> 80mcg clen ed, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off
> 
> 50mcg T3 ed, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off


Did you read the latest protocol?

1000iu p/w, you can do this once weekly or split it into 2 x 500iu shots, your choice mate.

And no i'm not hackskii but i did write the sticky so i hope my opinion counts


----------



## MA1984

Mars said:


> Did you read the latest protocol?
> 
> 1000iu p/w, you can do this once weekly or split it into 2 x 500iu shots, your choice mate.
> 
> And no i'm not hackskii but i did write the sticky so i hope my opinion counts


Thanks mate


----------



## hackskii

That is one long cycle.


----------



## MA1984

hackskii said:


> That is one long cycle.


Yep, thats my final cycle after its over, I'll do PCT and go back on ASS staying on very low doses (maintenance doses) for the rest of my life!


----------



## JR8908

Can I use the sterile water that comes with to inject? A lot say use bateriostatic water.

Can you not just mix say 1500iu in sterile water and shoot 500 straight away and then freeze it until you want to use another 500iu? Does this compromise its potency?

I'm sure the answer is somewhere in this thread just taking a bit of finding.

Reason I'm asking is I'm questioning my use of hcg in the past and whether I've done it correctly. Been guilty of leaving it in the fridge for too long I think.


----------



## Mars

JR8908 said:


> Can I use the sterile water that comes with to inject? A lot say use bateriostatic water.
> 
> *
> Can you not just mix say 1500iu in sterile water and shoot 500 straight away and then freeze it until you want to use another 500iu? Does this compromise its potency?*
> 
> I'm sure the answer is somewhere in this thread just taking a bit of finding.
> 
> Reason I'm asking is I'm questioning my use of hcg in the past and whether I've done it correctly. Been guilty of leaving it in the fridge for too long I think.


Not really because you will be freezing, thawing, freezing, thawing, this isn;t good.

If you have bacwater use the fridge, if you have sterile water use slin pins and freeze.


----------



## Buds

Mars said:


> Not really because you will be freezing, thawing, freezing, thawing, this isn;t good.
> 
> If you have bacwater use the fridge, if you have sterile water use slin pins and freeze.


Can you also freeze with bacs water? Hope so as the pins are currently in freezer lol.

As an aside, how long will they take to thaw out once I need the next one next week?


----------



## Mars

Buds said:


> Can you also freeze with bacs water? Hope so as the pins are currently in freezer lol.
> 
> As an aside, how long will they take to thaw out once I need the next one next week?


Yes.

I just roll the syringe in hands for a couple minutes, either that or take out of freezer and put in fridge the night before.


----------



## Buds

Thanks @Mars

Hope you are feelin better and recovering well.


----------



## Jcbear

Im due to start using hcg tomo power pct method. I dont have any spare vials to use once hcg has been reconstituted. Is it ok to mix and draw all into the syri ge in one go? I have 5000iu vials and will be jabbing 2500iu eod 16days.


----------



## Smalls

instead of using 1000 iu every 7 days could i use 1500iu every 10 days? its just i cant store my hcg in my fridge or freeze them. i can get 1500 iu amps so could i mix this then use it straight away?


----------



## Mars

Smalls said:


> instead of using 1000 iu every 7 days could i use 1500iu every 10 days? its just i cant store my hcg in my fridge or freeze them. i can get 1500 iu amps so could i mix this then use it straight away?


If that's your only option then thats what you will have to do, it's not ideal but it's better than not doing it at all.


----------



## Smalls

Yeah it's my only option as I live at home still, I did buy a mini fridge to put it my wardrobe but it sounds like a plane taking off


----------



## Kimball

Smalls said:


> Yeah it's my only option as I live at home still, I did buy a mini fridge to put it my wardrobe but it sounds like a plane taking off


Keep it shut and turn it off at night. Although it shouldn't be kept inside anything really


----------



## Smitch

So how long does HCG take to get your nuts back up to size?

I'm a few weeks in to a cycle and was going to pin 1000iu of HCG tonight, will I see effects from that or will it be after a certain number of weeks at 1000iu a week?


----------



## Mars

Smitch said:


> *So how long does HCG take to get your nuts back up to size?*
> 
> I'm a few weeks in to a cycle and was going to pin 1000iu of HCG tonight, will I see effects from that or will it be after a certain number of weeks at 1000iu a week?


Depends, 20,000iu should do the job.

But, that question and your situation are two different things so if you want to know the best course of action then i need more info.

1, what does a few weeks in to a cycle mean? 2,3,5,8wks???

2, how long is your cycle?


----------



## Smitch

Mars said:


> Depends, 20,000iu should do the job.
> 
> But, that question and your situation are two different things so if you want to know the best course of action then i need more info.
> 
> 1, what does a few weeks in to a cycle mean? 2,3,5,8wks???
> 
> 2, how long is your cycle?


Cheers for the reply mate.

4 weeks into a cycle of 2ml TMTE a week so 400 test, 400 tren, 400 mast a week.

Gonna be running it for 12 weeks total and wouldn't mind being able to see my nuts for the duration.


----------



## Mars

Smitch said:


> Cheers for the reply mate.
> 
> 4 weeks into a cycle of 2ml TMTE a week so 400 test, 400 tren, 400 mast a week.
> 
> Gonna be running it for 12 weeks total and wouldn't mind being able to see my nuts for the duration.


You should be ok just running 1000iu p/w from now till you start PCT. As you are 4wks in you could make the 1st jab 5000iu just to get the balls rolling so to speak  .


----------



## BennyC

Apologies if this is fairly obvious but I'm just researching the dark side at the moment.

I think the pro's of running HCG at a low dose during cycle outweigh the cons, especially if an AI is used along side.

Regular PCT protocol would be something like Clomid at 100mg ED x 30 days and Nolva 20mg ED x 45 days.

If I were to run HCG @ 1000IU per week (2 x 500IU) with Nolva (unsure of the dose) along side how would this effect recommended PCT? (Based on a 4 week dbol cycle & 12 week Test-E) As I see Nolva & Clomid are recommended but having used Nolva during the cycle would it need to just be carried on for PCT in a similar or greater dose? or would it not be required?


----------



## Mars

BennyC said:


> Apologies if this is fairly obvious but I'm just researching the dark side at the moment.
> 
> I think the pro's of running HCG at a low dose during cycle outweigh the cons, especially if an AI is used along side.
> 
> Regular PCT protocol would be something like Clomid at 100mg ED x 30 days and Nolva 20mg ED x 45 days.
> 
> If I were to run HCG @ 1000IU per week (2 x 500IU) with Nolva (unsure of the dose) along side how would this effect recommended PCT? (Based on a 4 week dbol cycle & 12 week Test-E) As I see Nolva & Clomid are recommended but having used Nolva during the cycle would it need to just be carried on for PCT in a similar or greater dose? or would it not be required?


Why would you run it with nolva?

You would be much better off both for on cycle use and post cycle recovery using an AI to help keep a good balance of test > estrogen.


----------



## BennyC

Mars said:


> Why would you run it with nolva?
> 
> You would be much better off both for on cycle use and post cycle recovery using an AI to help keep a good balance of test > estrogen.


Perhaps I misinterpreted the OP slightly:



> •The most common side affect associated with hCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of Nolvadex with hCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and continues the stimulation of pituitary LH once hCG has been discontinued.


Unless I have it miscontrued, running Nolva would prevent any gyno that HCG could cause?


----------



## Mars

BennyC said:


> Perhaps I misinterpreted the OP slightly:
> 
> Unless I have it miscontrued, running Nolva would prevent any gyno that HCG could cause?


Ah i see.

Well this is true and an excellent idea if you havent used HCG on cycle *but are using it in the blast method i suggest*.

My point is that if you are running a cycle using aromatizable compounds you should be using an AI and not nolva, this is regardless of weather you are using hCG on cycle or not.


----------



## BennyC

Mars said:


> Ah i see.
> 
> Well this is true and an excellent idea if you havent used HCG on cycle *but are using it in the blast method i suggest*.
> 
> My point is that if you are running a cycle using aromatizable compounds you should be using an AI and not nolva, this is regardless of weather you are using hCG on cycle or not.


I see, thanks.

I'll get my head around AI's & PCT and then come back if I have any questions. I presumed that Nolva was a) an AI and B) a suitable AI to run on cycle but obviously not!


----------



## Mars

BennyC said:


> I see, thanks.
> 
> I'll get my head around AI's & PCT and then come back if I have any questions. I presumed that Nolva was a) an AI and B) a suitable AI to run on cycle but obviously not!


Common misconception mate.

Nolva is a SERM, arimidex, aromasin and letro are AI's.

SERMS occupy certain estrogen receptors so that estrogen can't bind to them but it's still free in your body, AI's stop some of the aromatization of Testosterone to estrogen so your body doesn't have excess amounts of estrogen.

This is a good thing because excess estrogen is bad in males and it's very suppressive, much more so than testosterone, so keeping estrogen in check and using hCG makes recovery post cycle so much quicker and easier so you keep more of your gains.


----------



## BennyC

Mars said:


> Common misconception mate.
> 
> Nolva is a SERM, arimidex, aromasin and letro are AI's.
> 
> SERMS occupy certain estrogen receptors so that estrogen can't bind to them but it's still free in your body, AI's stop some of the aromatization of Testosterone to estrogen so your body doesn't have excess amounts of estrogen.
> 
> This is a good thing because excess estrogen is bad in males and it's very suppressive, much more so than testosterone, so keeping estrogen in check and using hCG makes recovery post cycle so much quicker and easier so you keep more of your gains.


Makes sense then why Nolva would be more suited if blasting HCG at the end of cycle.

Thanks for your help :thumbup1:


----------



## James21

If doing 2500 eod how much water would you add to the HCG, 0.5ml sufficent so then do 2 subq shots of 0.25 ml?


----------



## winkawatson1986

Mars said:


> I believe in that example it worked out at 2400iu, i would round this up to 2500iu and use 1000iu mon, then 1000iu wed, then 500iu fri.
> 
> That sound like a lot, but weekly doses of 2500iu + have been used in many clinical studies with excellent results.
> 
> I'm in the process of researching priming with adex for a week before starting the HCG and then using adex for the remainder of the HCG cycle, as higher doses of HCG can cause gyno then i think adex could be a good addition not only for preventing gyno but also in improved recovery from just HCG alone, more research i my part needs to be done however.


How did the hcg go wen u tried it mate


----------



## Mars

winkawatson1986 said:


> How did the hcg go wen u tried it mate


Iv'e always ran hCG at 1000iu per week.

But what was interesting is that two endo's i spoke too in hospital when i'd had my heart attack and was not going to use steroids again, said it was doubtful i would need any intervention from them as i should recover easily because of the hCG use.

It has now been about 11wks since my lost shot of test/hcg and i have had no problems mood or libido wise, i have done no PCT.


----------



## winkawatson1986

Mars said:


> Iv'e always ran hCG at 1000iu per week.
> 
> But what was interesting is that two endo's i spoke too in hospital when i'd had my heart attack and was not going to use steroids again, said it was doubtful i would need any intervention from them as i should recover easily because of the hCG use.
> 
> It has now been about 11wks since my lost shot of test/hcg and i have had no problems mood or libido wise, i have done no PCT.


Heart attack!  think I will invest in some!


----------



## Munkee

Mars said:


> Mixing hCG:
> 
> Items needed: bacteriostatic water (*not the water/solvent that comes with the kit*)


As I can't store my HCG in the fridge, i'm planning to just buy 1500iu amps and use 1000iu each week, is it ok to just use the solvent they come with? Or is there another reason you shouldn't use it besides not being able to store them?


----------



## Mars

Munkee said:


> As I can't store my HCG in the fridge, i'm planning to just buy 1500iu amps and use 1000iu each week, is it ok to just use the solvent they come with? Or is there another reason you shouldn't use it besides not being able to store them?


The water it comes with is for single use.


----------



## stuey99

Mars said:


> The water it comes with is for single use.


Mars, is there any risk getting hcg sent in the post in this hot weather? Just missed delivery as well, so it's gonna spend all day and night in the post office...will it be ok?


----------



## Mars

stuey99 said:


> Mars, is there any risk getting hcg sent in the post in this hot weather? Just missed delivery as well, so it's gonna spend all day and night in the post office...will it be ok?


It will be fine mate.


----------



## stuey99

Mars said:


> It will be fine mate.


Nice one mate...me and my balls both thank you lol.


----------



## The doog

Hi Mars.

Does it make any difference on bollock size if you take all 1000iu in one shot, instead of over two shots? Any higher risk of gyno etc?


----------



## star321

Hi guys

I am planning a cycle for 12 weeks

500 test cyp

4 weeks of test prop

4 weeks of tren ace.

Will be running hcg throughout. 250iu x3times a week.

Will I need to run it for the full 12 weeks? And will I need to use any hcg for pct? Or just during my cycle?

Thanks for the help guys


----------



## Mars

star321 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I am planning a cycle for 12 weeks
> 
> 500 test cyp
> 
> 4 weeks of test prop
> 
> 4 weeks of tren ace.
> 
> Will be running hcg throughout. 250iu x3times a week.
> 
> Will I need to run it for the full 12 weeks? And will I need to use any hcg for pct? Or just during my cycle?
> 
> Thanks for the help guys


Please post this in the correct section (steroid and testosterone information) this is a sticky, which i would advise you to read as 3 x 250iu is not the way to use it.


----------



## Levifoster

hi mars im after a quick question, is there a maxium length that you can stay on hcg for? lets say you ran a 16-20 week cycle can you run hcg from week 1 up to pct or do you need a break?

many thanks


----------



## Mars

Levifoster said:


> hi mars im after a quick question, is there a maxium length that you can stay on hcg for? lets say you ran a 16-20 week cycle can you run hcg from week 1 up to pct or do you need a break?
> 
> many thanks


Well i was on it 4 years and my endo said it was the best thing i ever done


----------



## Levifoster

Mars said:


> Well i was on it 4 years and my endo said it was the best thing i ever done


Thank you for your reply.


----------



## Pain2Gain

just a quick one is it BEST to store the unconstituted.HCG powder in fridge also or just once it's reconstituted does it need the fridge.

It's just a got some alpha Pharma hcg yesterday say on vial store between 2-8 degrees, in the past I've only cooled it once the water was added and just curious which is better.

Nice touch with AP they actually give you 1ml BAC water amps instead of sterile water or solvent


----------



## Mephisto

Reading up and researching for my first cycle, and this thread is the dog's bollocks. Feeling much more confident about how to prepare HCG now.

Thanks a lot mate.


----------



## Mars

Pain2Gain said:


> just a quick one is it BEST to store the unconstituted.HCG powder in fridge also or just once it's reconstituted does it need the fridge.
> 
> It's just a got some alpha Pharma hcg yesterday say on vial store between *2-8 degrees,* in the past I've only cooled it once the water was added and just curious which is better.
> 
> Nice touch with AP they actually give you 1ml BAC water amps instead of sterile water or solvent


This is fridge temp, thats how it should be stored, at the very least it must be a cool ambient temperature, thats how we had storage at the pharmaceutical company i worked for and they certainly know what they are doing.


----------



## Logman

My HcG is 5000iu. It comes in an amp and a separate plastic vial containing some kind of water or dilutent. So I can't use this and store it in fridge?

Also, how do you open the amp without getting glass everywhere? (sorry for the nub question)


----------



## Pain2Gain

Logman said:


> My HcG is 5000iu. It comes in an amp and a separate plastic vial containing some kind of water or dilutent. So I can't use this and store it in fridge?
> 
> Also, how do you open the amp without getting glass everywhere? (sorry for the nub question)


Not unless it's BAC water, most likely not it's probably solvent or just sterile water. Use BAC water if your going to store it.

You snap the top off the amp.


----------



## Pain2Gain

Mars said:


> This is fridge temp, thats how it should be stored, at the very least it must be a cool ambient temperature, thats how we had storage at the pharmaceutical company i worked for and they certainly know what they are doing.


It is that's what I thought to. So opted for putting the whole lot in the cooler. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Logman

Right, HCG delayed until I get bac water. Might be another 3-4 weeks. Will be 8 weeks into my cycle.


----------



## Lewthy

Mars said:


> HOW TO MIX AND STORE hCG.
> 
> *From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.*
> 
> Here is the science behind this protocol:
> 
> An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.
> 
> The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.
> 
> Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.
> 
> A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.
> 
> Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.
> 
> The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.
> 
> *It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.*


Does the last sentence highlighted in bold above mean that I can inject HCG on the same day I start my PCT or 1 week before I start my PCT?

Thanks.


----------



## Mars

Lewthy said:


> Does the last sentence highlighted in bold above mean that I can inject HCG on the same day I start my PCT or 1 week before I start my PCT?
> 
> Thanks.


It doesnt really matter mate.


----------



## natefiggs

Okay so I have a question Mr Mars if you dont mind...I am 15 days in my cycle and want to finally throw the HCG in because my bac water just arrived.... I am dosing my test @ 750mgs, EQ @ 600mgs and for the first 5 weeks dianabol @ 40mgs a week.... So is it okay to throw the HCG @ 500ius twice a week with out any blast ?? and then keep it running untill a week be4 my last inject day?? which ill be running this cycle for probably 15 to 16 weeks... then when the gear is out of my system 2 weeks later start my pct and throw the hcg in again for pct??? I have done soooooo much reading on this protocol stuff and it can be very aggravating and frustrating. I just want to do this in the most effective way!! thanks for any advice much appreciated!!


----------



## Mars

@natefiggs, see what i did there? dont put Mr before the username, put @ then the user will get a notification.

Start HCG now and do 1000iu p/w till you start PCT.

PS: looks like your post has been automatically moderated for some reason, i'll approve it.


----------



## natefiggs

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!


----------



## sunn

Pain2Gain said:


> It is that's what I thought to. So opted for putting the whole lot in the cooler. Thanks for the reply.


If that is correct then looks like the hcg I have in my cuboard will be a waste of money! Lol


----------



## Mars

sunn said:


> If that is correct then looks like the hcg I have in my cuboard will be a waste of money! Lol


Why? has it been exposed to heat and/or extreme fluctuations in temperature?


----------



## sunn

Mars said:


> Why? has it been exposed to heat and/or extreme fluctuations in temperature?


It was shipped by up a few months back and has been at the bottom of my cupboard I didn't think temp was so much of an issue until mixing and using it. I guess the only way to know would be to do a test on it.

It was one of the statements above that lead me to think it wouldn't be any good?

Cheers


----------



## Rhinotest

Could someone please read this and let me know if it sounds correct ?

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.aspx

Am really confused as to whether i need HCG or not.

Am taking 600mg TEST-E for 10 weeks with a 50mg per day Dianabol kicker for the first four weeks.

Thanx in advance.


----------



## hackskii

Rhinotest said:


> Could someone please read this and let me know if it sounds correct ?
> 
> http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.aspx
> 
> Am really confused as to whether i need HCG or not.
> 
> Am taking 600mg TEST-E for 10 weeks with a 50mg per day Dianabol kicker for the first four weeks.
> 
> Thanx in advance.


I stopped reading after he said this: "Not all steroids do cause shut down of the feedback mechanism."


----------



## simonthepieman

is this considered a good video of mixing?


----------



## Kalell

Started a test e cycle today, also got HCG to run with it.

My HCG is 2 small snap bottles, one with power and one with water, (4 weeks worth) been told to snap the 2 bottles, mix the water with the powder and inject after its mixed.

What a **** on, i snapped the bottles and got glass everywhere, i then triied to tip the water into the powder and the water wouldnt come out cos i kept getting a bubble in the end of the bottle, then i spilt some of the water whiclt trying to tip it in :lol:

Any decent videos on how to do this properly, the only videos i can find are bottles that look like vile bottles and not the small snap bottles i have.


----------



## Mars

Kalell said:


> Started a test e cycle today, also got HCG to run with it.
> 
> My HCG is 2 small snap bottles, one with power and one with water, (4 weeks worth) been told to snap the 2 bottles, mix the water with the powder and inject after its mixed.
> 
> What a **** on, i snapped the bottles and got glass everywhere, i then triied to tip the water into the powder and the water wouldnt come out cos i kept getting a bubble in the end of the bottle, then i spilt some of the water whiclt trying to tip it in :lol:
> 
> Any decent videos on how to do this properly, the only videos i can find are bottles that look like vile bottles and not the small snap bottles i have.


 :lol: , Ive just read your thread so i wont say anything except, engage your brain next time  .


----------



## Guest

Kalell said:


> Started a test e cycle today, also got HCG to run with it.
> 
> My HCG is 2 small snap bottles, one with power and one with water, (4 weeks worth) been told to snap the 2 bottles, mix the water with the powder and inject after its mixed.
> 
> What a **** on, i snapped the bottles and got glass everywhere, i then triied to tip the water into the powder and the water wouldnt come out cos i kept getting a bubble in the end of the bottle, then i spilt some of the water whiclt trying to tip it in :lol:
> 
> Any decent videos on how to do this properly, the only videos i can find are bottles that look like vile bottles and not the small snap bottles i have.


erm how did you pin the test ? , as above read the start of this sticky and engage brain , you dont say how much is in each vial etc- you dont pin 4 weeks worth in one go....... you dont need a video,everything you need is in this sticky -if you cant understand the stickys here (that have all the info you need for each part of a cycle) throw everything you bought in the bin as you will be ****ed at every level from cycle to pct.


----------



## Kalell

Mars said:


> :lol: , Ive just read your thread so i wont say anything except, engage your brain next time  .


 :lol: :lol: i know mate, the excitment of starting cycle made me think like a 10 year old :lol:


----------



## Logman

So does everyone pin HcG twice per week? No good to do one shot of 1000iu each each?


----------



## Mars

Logman said:


> So does everyone pin HcG twice per week? No good to do one shot of 1000iu each each?


I recommend 1000iu once weekly but some ppl prefer to do 500iu twice weekly, the only difference really is less holes lol.


----------



## Logman

Thanks man.


----------



## Logman

Mars said:


> I recommend 1000iu once weekly but some ppl prefer to do 500iu twice weekly, the only difference really is less holes lol.


I have a vial with 3ml bac water but no other empty sterile vials. Can I mix the HcG with Bac water and then use the bac water vial to store the HcG solution? I was going to mix 1ml with each of 3 amps containing 5000iu and do 0.2ml injections.


----------



## Guest

Logman said:


> I have a vial with 3ml bac water but no other empty sterile vials. Can I mix the HcG with Bac water and then use the bac water vial to store the HcG solution? I was going to mix 1ml with each of 3 amps containing 5000iu and do 0.2ml injections.


once you have it mixed load 5 pins (each .2ml 1000iu as you say) and freeze them , if you mix 3x amp all at once (15000iu) and are pinning 1000iu a week the bact water wont be safe in the fridge for that long (i go 6 weeks max) , freezing them is not a problem- just hold in your hand till it thaws then pin it.

ive been using 1000iu week for about 18 months now- with no problems , i think mars did 1k iu for a longer time aswell.


----------



## Logman

pugster said:


> once you have it mixed load 5 pins (each .2ml 1000iu as you say) and freeze them , if you mix 3x amp all at once (15000iu) and are pinning 1000iu a week the bact water wont be safe in the fridge for that long (i go 6 weeks max) , freezing them is not a problem- just hold in your hand till it thaws then pin it.
> 
> ive been using 1000iu week for about 18 months now- with no problems , i think mars did 1k iu for a longer time aswell.


I'm starting mid-cycle so will be doing 1000iu twice a week for 5 weeks (10,000iu) and then I'll go down to the standard 1000iu per week. So I'm thinking of using just 2ml Bac water and storing that 10,000iu in the bac water vial and it will be used in 5 weeks.

Freezing pins is not an option for me unfortunately.


----------



## Bob &amp; Weave

Sorry if this has already been asked, I have read through the whole thread once before but couldn't remember the answer to the following:

Does it make any difference when you administer the HCG, ie are the results better if you administer on the same day as your testosterone jabs or does it not make any difference? I'm assuming the latter but want to get confirmation.


----------



## Logman

Mars said:


> I recommend 1000iu once weekly but some ppl prefer to do 500iu twice weekly, the only difference really is less holes lol.


Mars, do you think a Bac Water vial is suitable for storing reconstituted HcG solution?


----------



## Mars

Bob & Weave said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked, I have read through the whole thread once before but couldn't remember the answer to the following:
> 
> Does it make any difference when you administer the HCG, ie are the results better if you administer on the same day as your testosterone jabs or does it not make any difference? I'm assuming the latter but want to get confirmation.


It doesnt make any difference mate.


----------



## Mars

Logman said:


> Mars, do you think a Bac Water vial is suitable for storing reconstituted HcG solution?


Yes, there is no reason why not mate.


----------



## Logman

Great, thanks.


----------



## Ben_Dover

@Mars, sorry if it's been asked in the previous 42 pages, but... Once the HCG is mixed into my slin pins, can I store them in my garage over the winter as opposed to the wife finding them in my fridge? Will this be cool enough do you think?


----------



## Mars

Ben_Dover said:


> @Mars, sorry if it's been asked in the previous 42 pages, but... Once the HCG is mixed into my slin pins, can I store them in my garage over the winter as opposed to the wife finding them in my fridge? Will this be cool enough do you think?


I should think so mate.


----------



## 2004mark

Ben_Dover said:


> @Mars, sorry if it's been asked in the previous 42 pages, but... Once the HCG is mixed into my slin pins, can I store them in my garage over the winter as opposed to the wife finding them in my fridge? Will this be cool enough do you think?


Works for my beers :beer:

To be sure though you could always get a cool bag and use an ice pack.


----------



## The doog

Hi, what's the best way to store pregnyl while its powder? Can it be kept in a cool room like the garage? Once mixed I'll freeze it with the solution it comes with. Will this effect the potency at all? Also with 1500iu amps. Is it best to draw up 500iu of solution with one pin. Then replace it with a fresh one before freezing?


----------



## Mars

The doog said:


> Hi, what's the best way to store pregnyl while its powder? Can it be kept in a cool room like the garage? Once mixed I'll freeze it with the solution it comes with. Will this effect the potency at all? Also with 1500iu amps. Is it best to draw up 500iu of solution with one pin. Then replace it with a fresh one before freezing?


It tells you on the box  .

No.

Aren't you using slin syringes?


----------



## The doog

Mars said:


> It tells you on the box  .
> 
> No.
> 
> Aren't you using slin syringes?


Planning on using 1ml syringes with a 30g 5/8" pin?


----------



## nlr

Just to clarify I have 10000ui hcg powder do I add 1ml bac water, shake and pull 0.2ml into insulin syringe?


----------



## Mars

nlr said:


> Just to clarify I have 10000ui hcg powder do I add 1ml bac water, shake and pull 0.2ml into insulin syringe?


I think you need to be a bit more specific.

Firstly are you using 1ml slins? how much do you want in each slin?


----------



## nlr

Mars said:


> I think you need to be a bit more specific.
> 
> Firstly are you using 1ml slins? how much do you want in each slin?


Yeah 1ml slins and would like 1000ui in each isn't that the right amount for on cycle?


----------



## Mars

nlr said:


> Yeah 1ml slins and would like 1000ui in each isn't that the right amount for on cycle?


Yes but you may want to do 2 x 500iu p/w or just 1000iu p/w, hence i had to ask the question.

If you add 1ml (personally if it's a 10000iu vial i would add 2ml)

0.1 or 10 (depending on slin brand) will give you 1000iu, so add 2ml and the same 0.1 or 10 will be 500iu.


----------



## nlr

Thanks @Mars I really appreciate it! out of curiosity can people maintain testicular size, function with only 500ui every week?


----------



## Mars

nlr said:


> Thanks @Mars I really appreciate it! out of curiosity can people maintain testicular size, function with only 500ui every week?


It's not really about size, it's about maintaining function and 500iu p/w isn't quite enough, natty you produce around 800iu p/w.


----------



## nlr

Mars said:


> It's not really about size, it's about maintaining function and 500iu p/w isn't quite enough, natty you produce around 800iu p/w.


Thanks I'll do that mate, one more thing I was considering taking 1G NAC ED to protect my liver whilst ingesting oral steroids and I stumbled across this apparently it's beneficial to hcg: http://forum.a1supplements.com/content.php?502-Avoiding-HCG-Burnout-with-NAC

From your expertise does that mean anything to you?


----------



## Mars

nlr said:


> Thanks I'll do that mate, one more thing I was considering taking 1G NAC ED to protect my liver whilst ingesting oral steroids and I stumbled across this apparently it's beneficial to hcg: http://forum.a1supplements.com/content.php?502-Avoiding-HCG-Burnout-with-NAC
> 
> From your expertise does that mean anything to you?


Can you pull the bits out that concern/interest you as i only skimmed the article, there's a lot in there thats not relevant.

BTW, your liver will be fine without NAC.


----------



## nlr

http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medline/citation/20824644/N_acetylcysteine_counteracts_oxidative_stress_and_prevents_hCG_induced_apoptosis_in_rat_Leydig_cells_through_down_regulation_of_caspase_8_and_JNK_

"NAC treatment induced down-regulation of upstream JNK/pJNK and down-stream caspase-3 in the target cells. Taken together, the above findings indicate that NAC counteracted the oxidative stress in Leydig cells induced as a result of repeated hCG stimulation, and inhibited apoptosis by mainly regulating the extrinsic and JNK pathways of metazoan apoptosis."


----------



## Mars

If i'm reading this right (both studies were done on rats BTW) then the administration of HCG was very frequent.

This is totally opposite to what is suggested in my sticky which is from the very latest research done by the Endocrinology society (once weekly injection). You will notice that the frequency of the doses used in the studies (on rats) are what causes the problems.

The leydig cells when in the refractory period can be desensitized or even damaged if further doses of HCG are administered.

The whole point of the protocol is to avoid this by injecting once weekly.

Personally i was on 1000iu p/w for about 4 years, when i stopped i was in hospital (heart attack so no more test for me) so i saw two endo's, they both said that the HCG use for those 4 years was the best thing i ever did and my HPGA should recover well.


----------



## nlr

@Mars A lot of guys who blast and cruise only use hcg on the blast? Doesn't trt dose effect function of the testicles?


----------



## Mars

nlr said:


> @Mars A lot of guys who blast and cruise only use hcg on the blast? Doesn't trt dose effect function of the testicles?


It doesnt matter weather you are on cycle, cruise, blast or TRT, you still won't be producing your own LH, so only using it on cycle/blast is a bit pointless.


----------



## Paz1982

Mars said:


> It doesnt matter weather you are on cycle, cruise, blast or TRT, you still won't be producing your own LH, so only using it on cycle/blast is a bit pointless.


just a quick one mate. how long will hcg last in the fridge when mixed with the sodium chloride it comes with ?


----------



## Mars

Paz1982 said:


> just a quick one mate. how long will hcg last in the fridge when mixed with the sodium chloride it comes with ?


I don't know mate is the simple answer, all i can say is you should only mix your HCG powder with it if you are using it all in one shot or you are filling slins and freezing them.


----------



## Paz1982

Mars said:


> I don't know mate is the simple answer, all i can say is you should only mix your HCG powder with it if you are using it all in one shot or you are filling slins and freezing them.


yeah I did read that on the instructions but wasn't sure. reason I asked is ive got a job starting where I work away for 2 or 3 weeks at a time and can only gat a mini fridge for the room. do you know if you still gat the packs with 3 separate 1500iu shots in from anywhere, I could just use 1000iu from each one of them and throw the other 500iu


----------



## Logman

Are there any studies showing side-effects of being on HCG for the lon-term (i.e. 2 year B&C)?

Do TRT patients have HCG administered?


----------



## Mars

Logman said:


> Are there any studies showing side-effects of being on HCG for the lon-term (i.e. 2 year B&C)?
> 
> Do TRT patients have HCG administered?


Google HCG monotherapy, most Docs/endo's have different protocols, some will treat hypogonadism with 1500iu of HCG 2-3 x wk, others will use a lower dose ED, some will use combination therapy, hCG and an AI, they all seem to have their own ideas of what is best.

Some will even use TRT test dose + hCG + AI.


----------



## Logman

So I could stay on 1000iu per week for 2-3 years with no side effects?


----------



## Mars

Logman said:


> So I could stay on 1000iu per week for 2-3 years with no side effects?


Well two endo's told me that it was the best thing i ever did.


----------



## Logman

Nice. Thanks man, you're a great help.


----------



## tomthumb

Mars said:


> It's not really about size, it's about maintaining function and 500iu p/w isn't quite enough, natty you produce around 800iu p/w.


I have the 1500 iu vials, could I spilt them in two and just take 750 iu per week instead of 1000, or do you think 750 is a bit low.

It's for a 12 week test e only cycle.


----------



## Mars

tomthumb said:


> I have the 1500 iu vials, could I spilt them in two and just take 750 iu per week instead of 1000, or do you think 750 is a bit low.
> 
> It's for a 12 week test e only cycle.


You could split it and do 750iu every 5 days  .


----------



## Stu_76

Mars said:


> You could split it and do 750iu every 5 days  .


Would the weekly shots of HCG vary depending on the amount of gear you're on? I'm starting my 1st cycle in the new year and only going to be using 400mg / wk of test e. Do I still need 1000iu per week or should I reduce to 500 or 750? Surely it would be lower than someone who was on say 800/wk plus whatever mg / wk of deca, tren or orals or whatever else in their cycle?? Cheers


----------



## Mars

Stu_76 said:


> Would the weekly shots of HCG vary depending on the amount of gear you're on? I'm starting my 1st cycle in the new year and only going to be using 400mg / wk of test e. Do I still need 1000iu per week or should I reduce to 500 or 750? Surely it would be lower than someone who was on say 800/wk plus whatever mg / wk of deca, tren or orals or whatever else in their cycle?? Cheers


It doesnt matter if you take 5g p/w or 500mg p/w, your pituitary still wont be producing it's own LH.


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## Stu_76

Mars said:


> It doesnt matter if you take 5g p/w or 500mg p/w, your pituitary still wont be producing it's own LH.


Gotcha. Cheers Mars!


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## The doog

Mars said:


> You could split it and do 750iu every 5 days  .


So you dint think 750iu per week is enough?


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## tomthumb

The doog said:


> So you dint think 750iu per week is enough?


He answered it on the previous page man.


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## embo123456

Jasper said:


> Put as a Sticky my brother Mods...
> 
> Much needed...
> 
> ;-)


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## Patrick Bateman

Hi

I am soon about to begin a Test E (500mg/pw) and Masteron (200mg/pw) cycle for 12 weeks.

I will be going with the recommended weekly dose of 1000iu.

My question is when should I start and stop using the HCG?


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## hackskii

Patrick Bateman said:


> Hi
> 
> I am soon about to begin a Test E (500mg/pw) and Masteron (200mg/pw) cycle for 12 weeks.
> 
> I will be going with the recommended weekly dose of 1000iu.
> 
> My question is when should I start and stop using the HCG?


 @Mars as I see you are back.


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## dannyp90

I have loads of amps of sterile water which aren't snapped are try ok at room temperature?


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## carrerarich

When the latest anyone has started HCG during cycle?


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## Thunderstruck

Is it still the recommended protocol to use 1000iu per week while on cycle, my source reckons on 500iu is needed but guys on here seem more intelligent so am inclined to go with what ive read in the OP but it messes my mind up when i hear 2different opinions.

Has the recommended 1000iu still stand from when this thread was started or has it now changed?


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## musio

As above.

Another question to those in the know, does anyone know the cut off point of using HCG if your cycle is different? Ie, 600mg test or below?

Where did Mars go?


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## Lance Uppercut

@hackskii Is 750iu a week from week 3 through til the end (16 week cycle in total) an ok dose? Have only just managed to get my mitts on some.

Cheers mate.


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## Dan TT

Is it ok to freeze HCG in syringes? Read to wrap it in tin foil and put in freezer, elsewhere I have read it degrades the hcG if its frozen.

I can keep them in the fridge or freezer so not problems.


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## T100

Dan TT said:


> Is it ok to freeze HCG in syringes? Read to wrap it in tin foil and put in freezer, elsewhere I have read it degrades the hcG if its frozen.
> 
> I can keep them in the fridge or freezer so not problems.


The instruction in mine say not to freeze mate, but I've got 2000iu vials so just use bac water and keep it in the fridge as its used up pretty quickly


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## Dan TT

tom1981 said:


> The instruction in mine say not to freeze mate, but I've got 2000iu vials so just use bac water and keep it in the fridge as its used up pretty quickly


I've got the 2000iu vials aswell mate. I've mixed them up using bac water and left them in syringes in the fridge, that be sound?

I've got one vial left over as I ran out of syringes. Should I mix it anyway in the vial and fridge it or store in a dry place? Wouldn't be used within 6 weeks.


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## T100

Leave it dry mate, I only mix mine in the vial every 2 weeks when needed as it only takes 5 minutes so mix it when you need it and the others should be fine for about 5 weeks I believe, personally would rather keep it mixed in the vial and draw and pin when needed but that's just me


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## ryda

I have 1500iu amps, what dosage do I need?


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## Outofmilk

@hacksii I'm starting a 12 week cycle of test-e @500mg p/w and was hoping to get some info on when to use HCG and when to stop..

I'm going for the 500iu twice a week option

My cycle will be as follows

weeks 1-12 test e

Weeks 2+ HCG

Weeks 15-19 nolva + clomid

Thanks


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## LordVader

So the long and short of it is to use a 1000iU shot a week whilst on cycle?


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## Sams

@barsnack


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## ptirobo69

Loving the Info dude, and im that bit more closer to being confident with my first cycle and understanding the PCT and what im gonna run  So much info on here sometimes the more you read the more confusing things can get ... lol


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## gsxrthou

So confusing for me. I have 2000 iu of powder. 1ml of sterile solvent. I want 500iu x1 per week. So would that be 2000iu + the 1ml of solvent. Then .25cc on skin pin?


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## A_L

Was wondering if someone could please help me out. I 've purchased 9 x amps of 1500iu HCG and 9 x amps of the sterile water it comes with.

I'm wanting to run 1000iu a week. I haven't got a sterile empty vial or bac water. What is the best way to mix and store? Most stickies and guides take into account people have 5000iu.

Much appreciated


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## Mogadishu

A_L said:


> Was wondering if someone could please help me out. I 've purchased 9 x amps of 1500iu HCG and 9 x amps of the sterile water it comes with.
> 
> I'm wanting to run 1000iu a week. I haven't got a sterile empty vial or bac water. What is the best way to mix and store? Most stickies and guides take into account people have 5000iu.
> 
> Much appreciated


Load slinpin and store in fridge. The rest should stay dark and moderate temp UNMIXED.


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## invoga

I have never seen so many different opinions on the dosage of hcg, I have always used hcg the last six weeks of the cycle that, preceding pct, in this way

1-12 Test E

8-14 hcg 500iu week

15-19 pct

I would understand if this is the correct way, or I have to change something?


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## drinel

Hi there. I received my hCG and each package comes with 3 1ml vials of 1500iu and 3 vials of 1ml NaCl 0,9% solution.

For what I've read, bac can be done with a solution of Benzyl alcohol OR Sodium Chloride. So, are the solvent vials that come with this pregnyl ok to use as bac? I was planning to freeze slin pins with 250iu each.

Also, terrible at math. How much should I put into a slin pin if I mix both the 1ml 1500iu hCG vial and the 1ml solvent to get 250iu pins? I plan on doing 250iu twice a week for a 14 week test-e only cycle.

Thanks in advance.


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## paulieplumb

im taking 1000ius per week of hcg

do i need to space this out over two shots or can i just pin the one shot every monday??


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## tejani

hi..

is it ok to use hcg 5000iu for three weeks??

i use clomid 50 each night too??

i read somewhere that using hcg 5000 in one shot has negative feedback and it will suppress your testes??is it true??

please answer me


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## Sustanation

gsxrthou said:


> So confusing for me. I have 2000 iu of powder. 1ml of sterile solvent. I want 500iu x1 per week. So would that be 2000iu + the 1ml of solvent. Then .25cc on skin pin?


put 1ml of sterile solvant into your hcg 0.5ml of this will be 1000iu, 0.25ml will be 500iu simples.


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## Cic0

Hello everyone sorry but reading various posts about taking hCG during the cycle, I am in great confusion, for my cycle 5/6 weeks of Test prop 100 mg x 3 days a week and 30 mg of oral Win all days, I wanted to take 250ui hCG 2 times a week for the duration of the same, what do you think?


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## Jaguar12

Hello guys, Can anyone plz help?

I purchased pre-mixed hcg manufactured by Bharat Serum with the name HUCOG. I doubt over this pre-mix version of HCG becoz results are not good. then I purchased the powered vial and mixed it with water like liquid (I guess Sodium chloride) provided with packet.

Effect of HCG will remain same or it should always be mixed with bacteriostatic water?


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## Maximus Gluteus

I am 7th pin today started Hcg on week 5 as I was waiting on bac water took 500iux2 week 5 then took 500 and 750 last week as still seen balls shrinking off. Today I have noticed them still fading should I just do the single 1000iu shot a week?

I am on a cycle of test 400


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## shockmaster

ive only got the family fridge

anyone got any ideas what I could blag it as being so my family don't find out I'm injecting and absolutely kick off because they know nothing about steroids?


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## superdrol

shockmaster said:


> ive only got the family fridge
> 
> anyone got any ideas what I could blag it as being so my family don't find out I'm injecting and absolutely kick off because they know nothing about steroids?


 Have you not got any mates with there own places or a freezer you could use? Training partner?? Otherwise no, it's not normal to store slin pins in a fridge lol


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## superdrol

Cic0 said:


> Hello everyone sorry but reading various posts about taking hCG during the cycle, I am in great confusion, for my cycle 5/6 weeks of Test prop 100 mg x 3 days a week and 30 mg of oral Win all days, I wanted to take 250ui hCG 2 times a week for the duration of the same, what do you think?


 1000iu per week is a better suggestion, don't skimp on accesorys, split it into 2 or 1 single shot per week...


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## superdrol

Maximus Gluteus said:


> I am 7th pin today started Hcg on week 5 as I was waiting on bac water took 500iux2 week 5 then took 500 and 750 last week as still seen balls shrinking off. Today I have noticed them still fading should I just do the single 1000iu shot a week?
> 
> I am on a cycle of test 400


 A little shrinkage will happen or you have dodgy hcg, 1000iu is fine per week, no point overdoing it


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## ImAwesome

dumdum said:


> Have you not got any mates with there own places or a freezer you could use? Training partner?? Otherwise no, it's not normal to store slin pins in a fridge lol


 so true lol


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## wood4days

Mars

I have a question. I will do my HCG injection 1 week after my last injection of Test at 2500 iu every 5 days. How long am I suppose to be on HCG? All the way through my PCT cycle?

Mixing HCG: it says

" 9) For multi dose vials of powder (IE 5000iu) simply flip off the lid, draw up 2.5ml of bac water and squirt into the vial, then every 0.5ml or 50 on a 1ml slin pin will be 1000iu. "

Also if I am doing 2500 iu that means I would pull back to the .5ml and that would be the whole syringe (1000 iu) so I would need to inject two and half syringes?

Thank you much


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## Jaling

Mars said:


> HOW TO MIX AND STORE hCG.
> 
> The water you need to reconstitute hCG is bacteriostatic water.
> 
> Calculating hCG:
> 
> There isn't a specific ratio of ml to IU. It depends on how you mix it. It's quite simple. If you dillute 5,000 IUs hCG with 5ml of bacwater, the end result is 1,000 IUs per ml. Divide the same 5,000 IUs with 10 ml and the end result is 500 IUs per ml. Therefore, a large part depends on the concentration of hCG per ampoule or vial.
> 
> Mixing hCG:
> 
> Items needed: bacteriostatic water (not the water/solvent that comes with the kit) and some 5ml empty sterile vials or some syringes/slin pins.
> 
> 1) Open hcg/amp with powder
> 
> 2) Use a syringe to pull out 1ml of Bac Water and put in amp with hCG
> 
> 3) It will instantly dissolve
> 
> 4) Take syringe and add the mixed hCG solution to the sterile vial
> 
> 5) Swirl gently and you have 5000IU's of hCG
> 
> 6) Then draw 0.2ml (1000iu) and inject
> 
> 7) put the rest in the refrigerator
> 
> 8) Only use as much bac water as you need, too much may have a detrimental effect when the reconstituted hCG is stored.
> 
> 9) For multi dose vials of powder (IE 5000iu) simply flip off the lid, draw up 2.5ml of bac water and squirt into the vial, then every 0.5ml or 50 on a 1ml slin pin will be 1000iu.
> 
> Addendum:
> 
> 2) 1ml is a guideline, you could just as easily add 2ml then adjust 6) accordingly (IE: double, 0.4ml).
> 
> •The reason your discarding the amp of solvent is because its made for a single use.
> 
> •The most common side affect associated with hCG is gynecomastia. The concurrent intake of Nolvadex with hCG prevents gynecomastia, prevents/minimizes leydig cell desensitization and continues the stimulation of pituitary LH once hCG has been discontinued.
> 
> •hCG will last up to 6 weeks if mixed with Bac water instead of the solvent it comes with.
> 
> •You can keep the mixed hCG in vials or syringes in the fridge till use.
> 
> hCG DOSING:
> 
> Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) is a peptide hormone that mimics the action of luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is the hormone that stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
> 
> When you take AAS LH levels decline. The absence of an LH signal from the pituitary causes the testes to stop producing testosterone, this causes you're testes to shrink
> 
> Based on studies with normal men using steroids, 100iu hCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function without causing desensitization/saturation associated with high doses of hCG.
> 
> A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a thrice weekly shot of 250iu hCG, or possibly a twice weekly shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body's natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion.
> 
> The above protocol is by Eric Potratz
> 
> Another protocol is the blast method, this can be used if for some reason you haven't ran hCG on cycle.
> 
> This is often used towards the end of a cycle and/or the run up to PCT.
> 
> Much higher doses are used, anywhere from 1000iu-5000iu.
> 
> An example would be 2500iu - 5000iu shot 2-3 x wkly for 4wks.
> 
> I do have some scientific evidence that a 6000iu shot increased testosterone by 50% but did not alter the T > E ratio.
> 
> In fact some athletes have used hcg at 5000iu weekly while coming off cycle to successfully balance the T > E ratio.
> 
> I think it's worth pointing out that in clinical studies it was shown that a single 10000iu shot desensitized the leydig cells for 96hrs.
> 
> *From my latest research (taken from a recent article by the Endocrinology Society) i am now using and advocating the protocol of 1000iu injected once weekly.*
> 
> Here is the science behind this protocol:
> 
> An in vivo injection or an episode of LH secretion induced by GnRH, results in stimulation of the side-chain cleavage enzyme with the subsequent release of testosterone within 30-60 minutes of LH stimulation. The acute response to an injection of LH is dramatic in some species such as the rat and the ram but is much more attenuated in the human. This testosterone response lasts approximately 24-48 hours. If human chorionic gonadotrophin is used as an LH substitute, the kinetics of the initial stimulation are similar to LH but a second peak of testosterone secretion is evidence with hCG and occurs 48-72 hours after the initial injection. This biphasic pattern has been attributed to the observation that between 24 and 48 hours after an LH or hCG injection, the Leydig cells are refractory to further stimulation by either hormone. The second phase of testosterone secretion after hCG but not LH is associated with the longer half-life of hCG in comparison to LH. The hCG levels persist in the circulation and, following recovery from the refractoriness, testosterone levels increase. This observation has significant clinical importance since, in many men, a single weekly injection of hCG will suffice to maintain optimum testosterone responses rather than the frequent practice of giving injections of hCG two to three times per week.
> 
> The stimulation of leydig cells with large amounts of hCG rapidly reduces their number of receptors, this phenemenom is termed down-regulation.
> 
> Although these changes decrease testosterone levels to just above diurnal maxima 24-48hrs after initial injection repeated stimulation does not yield the same results.
> 
> A single injection of hCG is followed by a long steroidogenic response characterized by two phases of testosterone secretion.
> 
> Studies show that this second phase which can last as long as 8 days can increase testosterone in plasma by 2.2 x above maximal diurnal secretion even though hCG is no longer present in plasma.
> 
> The results indicate that hCG injections can be given every 6-7 days due to the prolonged steroidogenic response.
> 
> It is advisable to start this protocol around week 2-3 in the cycle and continue till the start of PCT.
> 
> *hCG and gynecomastia*.
> 
> HCG can cause gyno, this is probably due to hCG's ability to increase the dynamics of the CYP450 enzyme, the aromatase enzyme is part of this family so it's possible to note a marked increase in aromatase activity, this should not prove to be a problem if you are already taking an AI on cycle for estrogen management but it is something that you need to be aware of.
> 
> hCG use and the P450 cytochrome:
> 
> *Firstly a little basic info on the P450 enzyme and why hCG use on cycle is extremely beneficial*:
> 
> The CYP450 (cytochrome P450) enzyme system is a key pathway for drug metabolism.
> 
> Many lipophilic drugs must undergo biotransformation to more hydrophilic compounds to be excreted from the body.
> 
> The majority of drugs undergo phase I metabolism (e.g., oxidation, reduction) by CYP450 enzymes,
> 
> this is especially indicative of anabolic androgenic steroids and endogenous steroid hormones.
> 
> We all know the importance of incorporating hCG into our cycle, this is just another good reason to use hCG.
> 
> In laymans terms hCG increases the dynamics of CYP450 which in turn increases the rate at which drugs can be metabolized,
> 
> which in turn increases protein dynamics.
> 
> Basically by the action of hCG on P450 dynamics it also increases pregnenolone which
> 
> is the precursor for all other steroid hormones and has many benefits,
> 
> one of which is that it serves to keep/restore a natural hormonal balance within this key pathway even if the HPTA is suppressed,
> 
> it also has energizing, anti-stress benefits, elevates mood through the raising of NDMA activity and reduces excess Cortisol,
> 
> so if we can increase this steroid hormone with the use of hCG, we should.
> 
> For other examples of hCG protocol please refer to the link below.
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/13764-here-docs-protocol-hpta-recovery.html
> 
> Thanks to Patmuscle for this video showing mixing and subcutaneous injection technique.
> 
> http://www.medicalvideos.us/play.php?vid=689


 I know this is an old thread

Ive started the protocol you were testing which was 1000iu once a week hcg.

I have some questions

1. ( may sounds silly asking ) was this while you was on cycle?

2. Was it benificial to do it this way while ok cycle? ( does it still help with PCT recovery )

only reason I ask is because my ball bags been a bit closer to my body than it usually is the last few days.

I now see that Mars has no been active for quite some time...

has anyone else's had experience with this protocol and could possibly answer my questions above?

Thanks


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