# dropping carbs to loose fat!!!



## curtis1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi i really woud like to see my abs and shed some body fat im 37 years of age weigh 90k and 17%bf i work out 4 times a week doing a single major and minor muscle on each visit, standard 4 x12 heavy as poss for 4 excersices lasting about an hour for major then 20 mins of arms or abs.

I have just started throwing in 45 min farsted cardio every morning for 5 days of the week and adding some 20 min randon interval training to the end of my workouts.

My carb intake is pretty low i have 100g porridge and a mutant mass shake for breaky sometimes have 5 eggs if there is time ( will drop the shake if eggs eaten) before anyone moans!! then

11am 100g pasta plain

300g chicken breast

fruit

1pm

300g steak 100g mixed veg

3pm train

4.30 shake while doing interval training

5.30pm

300g steak or chicken and 200g jacket poatoe with cheese

9pm shake

drinking 4 litres of water and running eca30 twice a day and replacing that soon with clen.

My question is should i drop the carbs even lower to get quicker results???

Thanks for your time


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## curtis1 (Jan 18, 2009)

anyone out there?


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## 1Tonne (Jun 6, 2010)

Carbs isnt the be all and end all of losing fat. Merely 1 option.

If you workout regime is right, your diet on track (not even precise, just good and worked out with some savvy) then you should be able to cut the fat off.

Sure carbs is talked about, but everyone will react differently. Just gotta plug it out and crack on.

Eat less calories than you use - loss of weight.

Eat enough Protein to maintain as much muscle as poss.

Weights + Cardio.

Cut calories as and when necessary.

You will also prob get 20 different answers here so i'll leave you with my opinion and wish you luck.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Best thing to do is work out how much Protein, Carbs and Fat the above amounts too - then you can adjust your food intake over time depending on your weight loss.

Want to be losing 1-2lbs a week.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or mystical unicorns.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

essexboy said:


> Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or mystical unicorns.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


And what is it about grumpy cvnts like you that don't listen to guys who have, by the evidence of their very bodies, proved that most rules can be bent a little :whistling:

:lol:

Yes, ultimately, consume less energy than you need, something has to give.

Where it gets grey is the body is so adaptive, can get more (or less) efficient (to a point obviously).

So it isn't as clear cut as you say in reality.

Also, just as one example, having simple carbs too much, increases insulin... insulin is directly inhibitive of fat mobilisation - so yeah, wieght might still be lost, but not how you hoped...

Metabolic rate can be adjusted, cell efficiency can be boosted... all of which can change the amount of calories your body uses day on day.

Yes, still, eat less than this figure you will lose wieght, but how do you acertain this figure when your body is very capable of moving all goal posts?

And, my final nail in your grumpy ass post (  ) you say it is calories that count, not grams of fat, carbs etc - but - since the two are intrinsically tied, well, your statement is nonsense :lol:


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

i tried this fat thing for a while,and ended up looking sh1te tbh,

i eat what i want when i want,and starting to look alot

better for it.

i like carbs full stop.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

essexboy said:


> Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or mystical unicorns.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


If he works out his P, C and F, then he will also know how many calories he will be consuming, then adjust from there which will result in less calories.


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## kevo (Aug 7, 2003)

rs007 said:


> And what is it about grumpy cvnts like you that don't listen to guys who have, by the evidence of their very bodies, proved that most rules can be bent a little :whistling:
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


Great post. Also, reps for using the word "intrinsically" on a Friday afternoon!! :beer:


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## C19H28O2 (Oct 11, 2008)

essexboy said:


> Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or mystical unicorns.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


Reduction in calories is obviously the main factor when losing weight, but how do you reduce calories without reducing carbs?

It can't come from reducing protein, in fact many people increase their protein intake to maintain muscle mass..ultimately increasing calories.

It can come from fat, but a typical bodybuilding diet only consists of around 25-30% fat, preferably from essential fatty acids which should not be reduce dramatically as this is detrimental to health, hence the name.

Which leaves carbs (refering to staple carbohydrates- potatoes, pasta rice ect, rather than fruit & vegetables). Reducing carbohydrates is the most logical protocol.

Personally I think keto diets are too extreme, and can be detrimental to health (not saying they don't work). I think i steady reduction in carbs and daily cardio is the most effective way to lose weight.. But this is just my opinion


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

essexboy said:


> Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or mystical unicorns.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


not true in the real world, as the individuals job for example has a bigger effect not on total calories but how those calories are made up....for example

if 2 guys both diet on 3000cals there fat loss will not be the same nor will their breakdown as guy A may have a physical job so will need 500g carbs so that he drops fat and maintains muscle, but guy B may have an office job so for him to drop fat and maintain muscle he may only need 250g of carbs but higher fat amounts than guyA.....

instead of making a vague post about science facts why don't you post the facts up so they can be debated by the very people who do diet to extreme levels of bodyfat so that people can see both sides then work their own minds up to which way they should go.....

what makes guys spout about science when they have no practical experiance of doing it in the real world....i would really like to know?


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## Doink (Sep 21, 2010)

Have a look at the ultimate diet 2.0, Very effective i've found.

It's intended for people below 15% (you're not far enough off to worry about 2%) who just want to shift those last few lbs and i'm having fantastic results. Interesting read as well into how the body stores, mobilizes and uses fat and the various emchanisms involved and how you can play them to your advantage.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

rs007 said:


> And what is it about grumpy cvnts like you that don't listen to guys who have, by the evidence of their very bodies, proved that most rules can be bent a little :whistling:
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

essexboy said:


> Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or mystical unicorns.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


I have said it before, calories are NOT king! Just a minor Prince...Think Harry! 

THe reason is as Rs has said and in addition, if you only look at calories then you arent looking at TEF (thermal effect of food) or the effect the components of food have on hormones such as leptin and Insulin and general food metabolism.

Yes a calorie is a calorie whether it came from fat or carbs but we should be thinking beyond that to how the foods those calories came from affect our metabolism.

SD


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

essexboy said:


> Good afternoon,my abrasive sparring partner.Guessed it would be you that bites first.
> 
> The body may be adaptive, but limiting a whole foodgroup because its been incorrectly accused of being the "bad guy" is folly.The body will work at its most efficent, if it gets a wide range of nutrients.Mention restricting protein to most BBs, and they will collapse in panic, incorrectly presuming they will lose precious muscle.Your muscles need fuel to contract, carbs and fats supply this.
> 
> how do your ascertain how many calories are optimum? easy.Start at 2000, then work backwards.your body will become more efficient, when it realises that its being restricted.Cut back 100 calories a week,every time you plateau to a minimum of 1500.It works extremely well.


And I assumed that you would assume that I would bite first :lol: :lol: :lol:

Funny - your method of ascertianing the correct calorie level, is exactly the same logical way I ascertained my protein level, but plenty tell me I eat too much of it :lol:

Anyway, show us the evidence that this works extremely well, if you please? And I'll show you as many pics and video clips as you like to prove my methods work extremely well too :whistling:

Always said though - loads of ways to skin the cat in this game.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> not true in the real world, as the individuals job for example has a bigger effect not on total calories but how those calories are made up....for example
> 
> if 2 guys both diet on 3000cals there fat loss will not be the same nor will their breakdown as *guy A may have a physical job* so will need 500g carbs so that he drops fat and maintains muscle, but guy B may have an office job so for him to drop fat and maintain muscle he may only need 250g of carbs but higher fat amounts than guyA.....
> 
> ?


this was my prob,always had physical jobs,and high fats made

no difference,i need high carbs full stop,funny thing also

i have no bloat probs now since changing back:confused1:


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

OOO aren't we all in grumpy mood today. whichever method you follow, use more enegy than you're replacing = automatic weight loss. Where the fun comes in is making sure it's fat not hard earned muscle, which sadly my adapting frigging body sees as fair game :lol:

RS, you can put all the smilies in you want, you're being mean. :tongue:


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

SD said:


> I have said it before, calories are NOT king! Just a minor Prince...Think Harry!
> 
> THe reason is as Rs has said and in addition, if you only look at calories then you arent looking at TEF (thermal effect of food) or the effect the components of food have on hormones such as leptin and Insulin and general food metabolism.
> 
> ...


Exactly

Can we be friends now, I'm sorry for fighting with you that one time, what can I say, I'm a cvnt


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

BillC said:


> OOO aren't we all in grumpy mood today. whichever method you follow, use more enegy than you're replacing = automatic weight loss. Where the fun comes in is making sure it's fat not hard earned muscle, which sadly my adapting frigging body sees as fair game :lol:
> 
> RS, you can put all the smilies in you want, you're being mean. :tongue:


fvck off :lol: you stinking  fetid :whistling: pis$y  GINGER CVNT :lol:  :thumb:


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

rs007 said:


> Exactly
> 
> Can we be friends now, I'm sorry for fighting with you that one time, what can I say, I'm a cvnt


Sure we can :thumb: till next time........... :cursing: :laugh: :lol: . Sorry too old bean :beer: .

P.s you do eat to much protein  cvnt!


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## curtis1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Seems i have started world war 3 which i apologies for my protein levels i do heep high around 300g a day carbs are low maybe as little as 150g/200g aday i take on board very little fat and my calorific intake is around 3000k a day.

I nievely thought that i needed to keep my calories the same but drop my carb intake as i am suseptable to carbs imo.

I am not looking to loose weight just cut my bf content down greatly, which obviously will end up in me dropping weight which is fine, i just dont want to drop to much in the way of muscle content while doing so.

Basically what some of you are saying is be in calorie deficite and loose weight does this rule apply to cutting fat??

cheers


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## curtis1 (Jan 18, 2009)

Doink said:


> Have a look at the ultimate diet 2.0, Very effective i've found.
> 
> It's intended for people below 15% (you're not far enough off to worry about 2%) who just want to shift those last few lbs and i'm having fantastic results. Interesting read as well into how the body stores, mobilizes and uses fat and the various emchanisms involved and how you can play them to your advantage.


Hi is this something i can see online or is it a book?

cheers bud


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## TerryT (Jul 20, 2010)

Forget carbs or protein, just reading this thread is making me lose fat


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> not true in the real world, as the individuals job for example has a bigger effect not on total calories but how those calories are made up....for example
> 
> if 2 guys both diet on 3000cals there fat loss will not be the same nor will their breakdown as guy A may have a physical job so will need 500g carbs so that he drops fat and maintains muscle, but guy B may have an office job so for him to drop fat and maintain muscle he may only need 250g of carbs but higher fat amounts than guyA.....
> 
> ...


This is only going to escalate into negativity, so ill be short and sweet.My point was that every time someone makes a comment, about fat loss,calories are rarely mentioned.This crucial aspect, is maligned, and i dont understand why.Im not about to post reams of papers, only to say that the only fact you need to know, is that unless you in deficiet, you wont lose fat.Gooday to all.


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## curtis1 (Jan 18, 2009)

once u guys have finished bitchin any more advise??? lol


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## curtis1 (Jan 18, 2009)

can i just confirm i need to be in calorie deficite but keep protein high to maintain muscle?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Not read whole thread but here's a bit from me...

To me, the 'calories in, calories out' vs 'metabolic advantage' debate I've always seen as odd because in effect both have always seemed correct to me and just missing each others points.

What I mean is, different food types, food combinations and food quantities definitely each effect your metabolic rate in a different way (as do exercise levels and current state of health), and your metabolism does work at different speeds after eating different meal types... but effectively all this does is alter your base metabolic rate for a short period of time, and beyond this small change in the number of calories you are burning for metabolism, the determinant of whether you gain, maintain or start losing body fat is still down to calories in vs calories out.

Dropping carbs I think is a useful thing to do if you have insulin sensitivity issues, and also if you have difficulty limiting the amount of them you eat... if you tend to overeat then fat, and particularly protein, are better macros because they tend to supress appetite a lot more.

Beyond this though the reasons for dropping carbs when cutting make less sense to me (not talking about depleting and rebounding glycogen stores for muscle fullness for a contest... purely on about fat loss)... the focus on the studies showing supression of fatty acids being used as fuel after a carb meal i think are misleading, because although it's true that carbs inhibit fat burning after you eat them, its important to remember also that despite fat burning being less inhibited with a fatty meal, you are also storing fatty acids at a faster rate after the fatty meal than you are when compared to the carb meal. With a carb meal, unless your glycogen stores are full, you will actually store less fat and store more glycogen compared to a fat rich low carb meal.

There are more factors that can play in, but at the end of the day what it results in is both of the two meals actually having an almost identical effect on total net fat storage/burning... with calories in vs calories out again becoming the main factor after the post eating period.

The macro that boosts metabolism most as already said is protein, not fat or carbs... when you eat enough protein for it to contribute significantly to energy intake as well as repair and msucle building, then you really start to see a metabolic effect, and one that's much greater than manipulating carbs or fats.


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

Dtlv74 said:


> Not read whole thread but here's a bit from me...
> 
> To me, the 'calories in, calories out' vs 'metabolic advantage' debate I've always seen as odd because in effect both have always seemed correct to me and just missing each others points.
> 
> ...


Very good informative post. However, nobody likes a know-it -all , negged :lol:


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## Doink (Sep 21, 2010)

curtis1 said:


> Hi is this something i can see online or is it a book?
> 
> cheers bud


I got it off a well known download site for free purely to fvck the author over as i'm a tight ****.

It's very good though, you can find it on one of those download sites i'm speaking about or buy it, it definitely works though.

It does involve lowering your carbs to 50g or less for the best part of 4 days in the week though... the thursday PM/Friday carbload makes up for it though :bounce:


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## skellan (Nov 15, 2009)

All I know is what I`ve experienced myself. When I decide to "cut" for a period (usually when I`m cruising) I drop my calories down a tad, try and keep carbs to morning/lunchtime meals and keep a fair amount of protein, good fats in my diet. Then obviously I up the cardio to every day and make it high intensity interval type training.

Yes I know its not a very accurate or scientific way of dieting but then again I`m not looking to be on stage. All I can say is that it works very well for me but what works for one doesn`t neccessarily work for someone else!


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

essexboy said:


> Its calories that count.NOT grams of fat, protein carbs, buckets of sand or *mystical unicorns*.What is it about Bodybuilders, who choose to ignore even the most simple scientfic facts? Is it fear of breaking with tradition, alienation from peers, Id really like to know?


this is where i go wrong i think.

i always used to rely on mystical unicorns but never lost any fat.

however, when i swapped over to sphynx's the fat dropped off me.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

essexboy said:


> This is only going to escalate into negativity, so ill be short and sweet.My point was that every time someone makes a comment, about fat loss,calories are rarely mentioned.This crucial aspect, is maligned, and i dont understand why.Im not about to post reams of papers, only to say that the only fact you need to know, is that unless you in deficiet, you wont lose fat.Gooday to all.


why would it escalate into negativity...? the thing with this board is people take comments by people like me as gospel and then make comments like "know it all pscarb, grumpy cvunt etc" it has nothing to do with who is right or wrong but your opinion based on your experiances....no one is right no one is wrong as every method will work for at least one person so cannot be discounted......

the problem i have with calories is how the body uses the different type of calories this is why i have never counted them.....now if you count calories and do not take note of where they have come from and this allows you to acheive your goals then that is cool but that is your experiance not science...so quote your experiances not scientific papers that probably count for nothing when it comes to bodybuilding and the real world stresses our bodies go through.....don't you agree?


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