# Add weight but lose fat??



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Bit of info first

Recently did a successful cut from 14st 2lb down to 13st 4lb and managed to lose approx 7-8%bf - just about had abs out.

Started an assisted bulk straight after this and have gained 11lbs in 14 days, granted a lot will be water and glycogen replenishment.

Abs have started to go in to hiding again and feeling a little bloated at times due to fairly large increase of volume and calories.

Question is - If I stay on my current daily intake and still train heavy and hard and add in 20mins LISS cardio after each session, will I gain muscle and lose fat and ultimately end up leaner and more muscular??

Running fairly high dose test prop and tren Ace with a 5 week Tbol kicker.

Wanting to gain as much as possible lbm but keep bf in check, so will eventually be upping cals but want to keep bf in check to avoid needing to do much of a post bulk cut and keep things much easier


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

You're gonna need to watch fats/carbs ratio on training and non training days mate,try keeping energy from fats mainly on non training days,on workout days,time most carbs around your workouts realy piling it in after...then monitor skin thickness.Water can trick us hiding away veins/cuts,but on tren ace you should not get fat if you don't go ott


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> Bit of info first
> 
> Recently did a successful cut from 14st 2lb down to 13st 4lb and managed to lose approx 7-8%bf - just about had abs out.
> 
> ...


If your aim is to keep v. lean then I would increase food very slowly, just with plently around your workout, peri - nutrition.

Would also run pro/fat meals on non training days for the majority of meals.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Galaxy said:


> If your aim is to keep v. lean then I would increase food very slowly, just with plently around your workout, peri - nutrition.
> 
> Would also run pro/fat meals on non training days for the majority of meals.


I think this was my main issue, increased food too quickly and ended up eating desserts etc which I never normally do :confused1:

Just wanting to address the issue whilst still at the beginning of my bulk before it becomes a bigger issue.

Don't really get on with pro/fat meals when I'm bulking mate, constantly feel hungry and then end up cheating which in turn has a bigger effect on my excess weight gain due to much bigger calorie intake.

Diet is pretty clean and consistent, just need to get it bang on but still allow max growth considering the high aas dose.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

biglbs said:


> You're gonna need to watch fats/carbs ratio on training and non training days mate,try keeping energy from fats mainly on non training days,on workout days,time most carbs around your workouts realy piling it in after...then monitor skin thickness.Water can trick us hiding away veins/cuts,but on tren ace you should not get fat if you don't go ott


Veins are out all over my arms. legs and chest etc when my arms are raised.

Just don't want to sell myself short on gains considering I've decided to do my biggest aas cycle to date but again don't want it to seem wasted and just chase lbs on the scales with no regard for my condition.

Expecting some bf but as I said, really want to keep it in check to avoid much of a post cut to see what results I've made


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> I think this was my main issue, increased food too quickly and ended up eating desserts etc which I never normally do :confused1:
> 
> Just wanting to address the issue whilst still at the beginning of my bulk before it becomes a bigger issue.
> 
> ...


Know what you mean about pro/fat meals not being filling! Bulking myself atm and am finding this approach very good so far, gaining well, am hungry at times esp on non training days but strength is still going up well and not getting any fatter lol ........good dose of tren helps too 

What I would do in your case if you want the extra cals is to have them around your workout, will be utilised the best imo


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> Veins are out all over my arms. legs and chest etc when my arms are raised.
> 
> Just don't want to sell myself short on gains considering I've decided to do my biggest aas cycle to date but again don't want it to seem wasted and just chase lbs on the scales with no regard for my condition.
> 
> Expecting some bf but as I said, really want to keep it in check to avoid much of a post cut to see what results I've made


You will not with this system,as it is least likely to cause fat retention,on a bulk imo


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

On fat/pro day use Mct oil....you will not regret that either


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Example of a current days diet

(foods change slightly but over the week but macros fairly consistent)

Meal 1 - 2 scoops pro, 2 scoops oats, spoonful of PB, 300ml ss milk, 200ml water and an apple

Meal 2 - 200g greek yoghurt mixed with 2 scoops whey, 75g natural museli, 40g almonds, small banana

Meal 3 - 225g chicken/turkey, 300g sweet potato, 15g butter, onion, sweetcorn, green beans and sugar snap peas

Meal 4 - 225g lean mince, 75g rice, onion, chopped tomatoes, peas, green beans

Meal - 5 - same as meal 3

Meal 6 - 6 whole eggs and 2 wholemeal toast with real butter

PWO - 50g isolate, 75g malto(sometimes 1 banana and 50g malto)

Intra - 10g bcaa, 5g taurine, 10g creatine, electrolytes

Cycle 250mg test prop and 250mg Tren A eod and 100mg Tbol daily

Any changes you'd suggest????


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

biglbs said:


> On fat/pro day use Mct oil....you will not regret that either


I use coconut oil to cook with and also add it to my chicken and rice meals when I swap meals around from above post of diet ^^^

Also use walnut oil, butter, almonds but not EVOO as it is vile...........


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Ill would say that depends on 2 things training and diet !

If both spot on and nutrition timeing is wright don't see why not


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

i'm using t3 at 50mcg per day on my current bulk...eating everything in sight at the moment and have stayed lean, i'm only 2 weeks in though. Could be worth a try, this is an assisted bulk but nothing heavy just 250mg of test and some tbol


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Lew1s said:


> i'm using t3 at 50mcg per day on my current bulk...eating everything in sight at the moment and have stayed lean, i'm only 2 weeks in though. Could be worth a try, this is an assisted bulk but nothing heavy just 250mg of test and some tbol


Just been recommended this on another forum.

My only concern is that when I come to PCT and I want my food intake to remain high to maintain gains, will there be an issue of excess fat gain whilst waiting for thyroid recovery.

I thought this would be the time when I'd be most susceptible to fat gain with my hormones being destroyed and all out of sync


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## Nuts (Aug 19, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> Example of a current days diet
> 
> (foods change slightly but over the week but macros fairly consistent)
> 
> ...


not sure if you have tried CBL, I am on it at the moment. My 10 day prep phase max 30g carbs ed and went from 15st 3 to 13st 9 bf dropped approx 8% a lot of which was water. I train at 06.30 so I backload my carbs the night before been on it for 3 weeks and back to 14 stone 10 without the fat granted a good % is water but seems to be working a treat, all assisted though test 1g/wk. I see you trains early evening? Maybe move your carbs to after training and more high GI rather than low before bed?? Good excuse to eat ice cream though!! :rolleye:


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Few pics to give you an idea where I am.

Taken 10mins ago with no training done since yesterday.
























Just after as much advice as possible from different sources before I see what changes to make


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

G-man99 said:


> Few pics to give you an idea where I am.
> 
> Taken 10mins ago with no training done since yesterday.
> 
> ...


Are u not training with solid mate


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

reza85 said:


> Are u not training with solid mate


Not anymore mate


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

reza85 said:


> Are u not training with solid mate


Well to be honest ur in great shape bf wise !

Ill take the thus opportunity while ur sub 10% and try to increase lbm ill take fats down and increase carbs pre intra and post and maybe protein and fats rest of the day and non on off days


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

reza85 said:


> Well to be honest ur in great shape bf wise !
> 
> Ill take the thus opportunity while ur sub 10% and try to increase lbm ill take fats down and increase carbs pre intra and post and maybe protein and fats rest of the day and non on off days


Nowhere near sub 10% mate, guessing 12-13%.

Just want to keep it under control and gain like a beast.

This is the reason I'm trying to get the info now while I'm at the start of my journey.

Got another 7 weeks to go yet :thumbup1:


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## Growing Lad (Feb 14, 2009)

Unless ur ass* is like a black women then you are sub 10! 7 to 8 by the looks and you look fricken awesome.

If u eat say slightly over maintenance and grow into this calorie level on tren etc it will then become more like maintenance level and can drop fat if You catch my drift. **** with words lol


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

@dtlv any chance you could spare 5 mins and give this thread a quick read and give me any info regarding diet plan and changes needed!

@marknorthumbria maybe you could also take a look

Just want to get it right early to get the best gains from the off rather than struggle later on and make the changes after I've gone in the wrong direction

Also @ConP and any other experienced people please.

All advice is grateful


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

biglbs said:


> You're gonna need to watch fats/carbs ratio on training and non training days mate,try keeping energy from fats mainly on non training days,on workout days,time most carbs around your workouts realy piling it in after...then monitor skin thickness.Water can trick us hiding away veins/cuts,but on tren ace you should not get fat if you don't go ott


 @G-man99

this, eat plenty of MCT/healthy fats especially on your non training day, dont have back to back carb meals, plenty of veg

read the OP of my journal in my sig it explains the reason for it insulin sensitivity and so

should keep you lean, i keep lean on 5.5kcals a day with it

keep cardio away from weights, i like mine first thing on a non training day, either 15mins HIIT or 25-45mins LISS


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## josephbloggs (Sep 29, 2013)

the vascularity in your arms and with veins running down torso i would say sub 10% too. I think maybe the genetic shape/form of your abs when tensed(in bottom pic) is maybe giving the illusion of higher body fat than you are. not a lot you can do about that, for an example, if you look at old pics of andreas munzer who got shredded beyond belief but his abs were never nearly as sharp as rest of his body.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> i'm using t3 at 50mcg per day on my current bulk...eating everything in sight at the moment and have stayed lean, i'm only 2 weeks in though. Could be worth a try, this is an assisted bulk but nothing heavy just 250mg of test and some tbol


This will greatly assist protein turnover...never leave home without them:thumb:


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## Ukmeathead (Dec 4, 2010)

Sorry to hijack your thread but what is mct?


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

Ukmeathead said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread but what is mct?


Medium-chain triglyceride


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

biglbs said:


> This will greatly assist protein turnover...never leave home without them:thumb:


Will have T3 by tomorrow.

Mark is helping with my diet and I will post up later what changes have been made


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

New diet plan, please feel free to give any advice good or bad

*Training day*

Meal 1 - 125g oats, 3 whole eggs, 40g protein from whey, 1g vit c , 3g omega 3

Meal 2 - 300g extra lean beef mince, 100g broccoli, 50g kale, 50g almonds, 2g omega 3

Meal 3 - 300g chicken breast, 300g sweet potato, 100g spinach

Meal 4 - 60g protein from whey, 70g almonds 2g omega

Intra plus 15g eaa, 4g taurine, 10g creatine, electrolytes plus 100g maltodextrin

Pwo: 60g protein from whey, 60g maltodextrin

1 hour pwo: 300g chicken, 375g white potato or 85g jasmine rice, 100g broccoli , 1 banana

Pre bed 40g protein from whey with 250g cottage cheese , 10g glutamine

*Non training day*

Meal 1 - 300g extra lean mince, 50g almonds , 100g spinach, 1g vit c , 3g omega 3

Meal 2- 6 whole eggs plus 200ml egg whites

Meal 3 - 300g steak, 100g broccoli, 50g kale, 2g omega

Meal 4 - 300g chicken breast, 300g sweet potato, 100g spinach

Meal 5 - 300g chicken breast, 75g rice ,100g broccoli, 120g pineapple

Pre bed 60g protein from whey with 50g PB, 10g glutamine

Thanks to @marknorthumbria for giving me a push in the right direction @dtlv @ConP @biglbs @Galaxy @RowRow @Sambuca


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

G-man99 said:


> New diet plan, please feel free to give any advice good or bad
> 
> *Training day*
> 
> ...


http://www.bodykind.com/search/beyond-greens/product/55-Udos-Choice-Beyond-Greens-255g.aspx

Add a scoop of these in each shake bar pre bed


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Diet looks spot on mate def see marks influence what are your current stats?


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> New diet plan, please feel free to give any advice good or bad
> 
> *Training day*
> 
> ...


Looks pretty good mate.

Personally I'd swap the fats and carbs in meals 3 and 4 on training days, like to keep most of the carbs circa the workout.


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

Out of interest how many kcals is training days?

Looking lean by the way, good luck on your cycle


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Galaxy said:


> Looks pretty good mate.
> 
> Personally I'd swap the fats and carbs in meals 3 and 4 on training days, like to keep most of the carbs circa the workout.


They are Low GI mate, they are still there come the workout, an extra protein fat meal is easily digestable for before the WO, prime slin sensitivity again and added TEF


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Casper13 said:


> Out of interest how many kcals is training days?
> 
> Looking lean by the way, good luck on your cycle


Don't work with cals mate.

Will just adjust either fats or carbs after 7-10 days depending on results


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

marknorthumbria said:


> http://www.bodykind.com/search/beyond-greens/product/55-Udos-Choice-Beyond-Greens-255g.aspx
> 
> Add a scoop of these in each shake bar pre bed


How long will a bottle last mate?


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

G-man99 said:


> How long will a bottle last mate?


Month or two mate


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> They are Low GI mate, they are still there come the workout, an extra protein fat meal is easily digestable for before the WO, *prime slin sensitivity again* and added TEF


How effective can this be?

Genuinely interested, I mean as you say the low GI carbs will still be present in his system! I can see how in your type of diet it could be effective as you have pro/fat up until pre wo. Would the slin sensitivity not be pretty much insignificant? Or am I way off??


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Galaxy said:


> How effective can this be?
> 
> Genuinely interested, I mean as you say the low GI carbs will still be present in his system! I can see how in your type of diet it could be effective as you have pro/fat up until pre wo. Would the slin sensitivity not be pretty much insignificant? Or am I way off??


Barely any difference in the short term to be honest, every little bit of good nutrition add up though


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> Barely any difference in the short term to be honest, every little bit of good nutrition add up though


This is what I try to explain to people every little piece counts even if it's 0.01% of the picture ^^


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Just spent well over £100 already on bits for this diet!!!!!

Beyond greens

Jasmine rice

Almonds

Eaa's

Glutamine

Creatine

Egg whites

Peanut butter

Coconut oil

Not even bought any real food yet, guess it's the price you pay to look good though :tongue:

Is tinned pineapple as good as fresh pineapple (I know it doesn't taste as good but more convenient) @marknorthumbria


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

I use tinned matey. Mince first meal - geeeee!!


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

G-man99 said:


> Just spent well over £100 already on bits for this diet!!!!!
> 
> Beyond greens
> 
> ...


What's ur stats mate ?


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Age: 38

Height: 5ft 11"

Weight: 14st 5lb

Bf: 11%


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

And another £100+ spent now on mince, chicken, turkey and steaks&#8230;.&#8230;


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

G-man99 said:


> New diet plan, please feel free to give any advice good or bad
> 
> *Training day*
> 
> ...


Taking it as an assumption that you have a good understanding of the calories/macro's that are appropriate for you the diet and food choices don't look bad... is always hard to say exactly what is right for another without knowing their personal diet history and all else going on etc. The two key questions I think with any nutritional plan are whether it's appropriate (macros/micros/kcals) for the individual and whether it's something they can easily stick to... some diet plans might be perfect on paper but not work out simply because the food choices not at all what you enjoy or feel comfortable on - and it's amazing how often just a tiny little bit of 'not really clicking' with a diet can lead to it falling apart and an abandonment of the most important thing of all - consistency.

Like any new diet though your biggest test of it is time - give it 3-4 weeks of following it to the letter and then make an honest assessment. Also as general advice, any changes to make that involve alterations to total energy intake make slowly and in a graduated fashion... IMO this is really important especially with lean bulk type approaches.

The ideal state to get the body into is one where you can stay lean but still gain lean tissue on a high calorie intake - this makes it then easier to cut on higher kcals/smaller kcal reduction which means less hunger and less exhaustion when in that deficit. Is a hard optimum to find though, and takes a lot of playing with diet to get there, but small changes, especially when increasing energy intake again after a long deficit and moving from a cut into a lean bulk phase are key to it... if after cutting a person suddenly ramps up the kcals from a significant deficit into a significant energy excess then it's a perfect recipe for a body fat gain rebound.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

dtlv said:


> Taking it as an assumption that you have a good understanding of the calories/macro's that are appropriate for you the diet and food choices don't look bad... is always hard to say exactly what is right for another without knowing their personal diet history and all else going on etc. The two key questions I think with any nutritional plan are whether it's appropriate (macros/micros/kcals) for the individual and whether it's something they can easily stick to... some diet plans might be perfect on paper but not work out simply because the food choices not at all what you enjoy or feel comfortable on - and it's amazing how often just a tiny little bit of 'not really clicking' with a diet can lead to it falling apart and an abandonment of the most important thing of all - consistency.
> 
> Like any new diet though your biggest test of it is time - give it 3-4 weeks of following it to the letter and then make an honest assessment. Also as general advice, any changes to make that involve alterations to total energy intake make slowly and in a graduated fashion... IMO this is really important especially with lean bulk type approaches.
> 
> The ideal state to get the body into is one where you can stay lean but still gain lean tissue on a high calorie intake - this makes it then easier to cut on higher kcals/smaller kcal reduction which means less hunger and less exhaustion when in that deficit. Is a hard optimum to find though, and takes a lot of playing with diet to get there, but small changes, especially when increasing energy intake again after a long deficit and moving from a cut into a lean bulk phase are key to it... if after cutting a person suddenly ramps up the kcals from a significant deficit into a significant energy excess then it's a perfect recipe for a body fat gain rebound.


Some great advice there mate and appreciate your feedback.

As you say, with it being new then I will be able to asses how sustainable it will be within a few weeks and I plan on having as many variations to each meal as I can but staying within the specified macros etc.

It is a new approach for me using this method and if things are not working out for me then I will reevaluate and ask for some more advice and assistance on what changes can be made.

I think on the whole though that it is a good starting point for my goals


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

biglbs said:


> This will greatly assist protein turnover...never leave home without them:thumb:


Do you just take it first thing in the morning 30mins before eating??


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> New diet plan, please feel free to give any advice good or bad
> 
> *Training day*
> 
> ...


That is real good work....only thing I would do diffrerent would be 100g casein pre bed or a steak


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

biglbs said:


> That is real good work....only thing I would do diffrerent would be 100g casein pre bed or a steak


I will be changing meals around mate to make it a more varied and sustainable diet.

I think as long as I keep the meals to pro/fat and pro/carb then it allows it to be flexible with the actual food choices.

No reason why I can't have chicken fajitas on whole meal wraps or spag Bol etc occasionally.

I still need to eat some meals with the gf so again variation is key

I'm not after stage condition or huge gains and the gym will not be all consuming either so that gives me some movement within the diet but still able to make very good gains


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> Do you just take it first thing in the morning 30mins before eating??


Mars posted a study on this some time back ,it stated Am on an empty tum,though tbh I feel like its ok half an hour before food Am and 12 hours later on empty tum again,could not see any difference in splitting dose or not,either way it works well,i think in the mind it feels better knowing you are keeping levels more consistant.The board is out on this one I feel.Best not to over 50mcg even 25mcg is fine and what I use.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

biglbs said:


> Mars posted a study on this some time back ,it stated Am on an empty tum,though tbh I feel like its ok half an hour before food Am and 12 hours later on empty tum again,could not see any difference in splitting dose or not,either way it works well,i think in the mind it feels better knowing you are keeping levels more consistant.The board is out on this one I feel.Best not to over 50mcg even 25mcg is fine and what I use.


Yeah he has given me advice before and I speak to him quite regular. Will stick with 50mcg first thing in the morning as I know I won't forget to take it then.

Have seen doses up to 100mcg suggested but will use 50mcg for now and see how I get on. Max I'll use would be 75mcg anyway

Will then take all other tabs etc with my first meal of the day and just take my Tbol 2nd dose with evening meal

Cheers pal


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