# quick question an IGF



## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

been doing abit of reading about this stuff in general

apperently it is very potent being stacked with test

it also says that taking nolva reduces/lowers the levels of our own IGF, so first questio is

would it be more benefitial to not do nolva during PCT and just use clomid with maybe some clen for anti-catabolic purposes obviously as taking the nolva is gonna reduce any production of IGF during this phase

also if you suffer from gyno symptons during a test cycle and your running IGF with it would we be better off not using the nolva to combat this, do any of the AI's reduce the levels of IGF?

i guess my main question is if we do use nolva at any time with IGF would we have to increase the amount of IGF to still get the same gains with no nolva present

ive read this back to myself acouple of times and i think ive put it down correctly for you to understand my question......hope so anyway


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

I would still take nolv PCT to be honest, as it may lower IGF Values, but you will be taking it so would not make any difference, thats kinda like doing a test cycle, which lowers and stops test production, but ur not concerned at the time as ur taking so much of it, u get me?


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

i get yo mate yeah

but i meant if your* not* doing any IGF with your pct

you get me? lol 



the_gre8t_1ne said:


> I would still take nolv PCT to be honest, as it may lower IGF Values, but you will be taking it so would not make any difference, thats kinda like doing a test cycle, which lowers and stops test production, but ur not concerned at the time as ur taking so much of it, u get me?


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

LOL, i will be next cycle


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

if our own IGF and/or test was low then wouldnt we be catabolic? (during pct) < added

is this why people add an anti-catabolic to their pct?


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

BIG-UNC said:


> if our own IGF and/or test was low then wouldnt we be catabolic?
> 
> is this why people add an anti-catabolic to their pct?


huh? u mean low during PCT?


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

yes mate sorry 



the_gre8t_1ne said:


> huh? u mean low during PCT?


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

well the point of PCT is to get natty test levels back to normal, so you do standard PCT protocal to do that, and IGF is good during PCT as it helps increase test levels while maintaining ur gains, with the added benefit of getting leaner so i have been lead to understand


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

ok then,put it another way would you get any leaner off the IGF if nolva wasnt in your pct?


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

yeah would make no difference


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Leave that nolvadex in the PCT.

Do the clomid and nolvadex together there is good reasons for this.

If you are worried about it at all take some HGH with your PCT, actually HCG, HGH, clomid and nolvadex make a crackin PCT, probably the best.

Yes nolva will lower IGF-1 but your hypothalamus and pituitary glands are shutdown, the object is to get the nuts online first then while the nuts are comming online (this takes the longest) then the pituitary and hypothalmus will be stimulated by nolva and clomid.

Clomid is a agonist and antagonist of estrogen so in theory it is great for firing up the hypothalamus but can supress the pituitary (from what I have read), this is where the nolvadex comes in, it allows this to not happen.

A good PCT should take around 45 days to get all the HPTA rollin good. Without PCT you might take anywhere between 6 to 18 months to recover.

You can take the IGF-1 with the cycle or with PCT.

Thing is with IGF-1 it can cause hyperplasia, where as steroids cause hypertrophy the diffrence is one builds bigger muscles and the other builds more muscles. I dont think I explained that right, but you get the idea.

Hyperplasia=IGF-1

Hypertrophy=steroids

So either way really.

Working out raises all of those test, IGF, GH, so anywhere around 35 to 45 minutes of intense training in the gym makes this happen naturally.

I noticed I thought I got a bit leaner during IGF-1 use, during my PCT.

But just run the clomid and nolvadex as planned.

Nolva actually can improve lipid profile, as you know gear use can hammer your lipid profile so there is some plusses and minuses.

Another thing, testosterone raises IGF-1 and not the other way around. HGH also raises IGF-1 as well.

HGH if taken with HCG can benefit testicular recovery and function making PCT more productive, not only that but put you in positive nitrogen ballance during your pct which is a good thing and some good fat loss which also is a good thing.

So, either way you choose is fine.


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

what would be the perfect pct hacksii?

and doses!


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I never use IGF for PCT.

Whats the point? IGF + Test = massive gains

IGF has about 5 weeks of activity before the receptors shutdown.

I don't see the point of running anything PCT apart from test stimulating drugs and maybe 5iu of insulin PWO.

Your body grows in spurts and so therefore I beleive it's best to stack everything at once, train heavy and eat loads for a short period which will spur your body into new growth.

You cannot grow all year round and I don't see the point of trying to bridge steroid courses with IGF, GH Slin etc. I just accept that I'm going to lose some size between courses and concentrate on thickening my physique with cardio and more reps with a lighter weight.

Have different goals throughout the year and you'll benefit more physique wise. 

That being said - I know others get good results from bridging. This is just my opinion.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

and id say it makes sense, your about as good as the board has to offer, so your doing something right Tom.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Tinytom said:


> I never use IGF for PCT.
> 
> Whats the point? IGF + Test = massive gains
> 
> ...


That is sound advise m8, I know you dont beleave in it, but wont things like hgh/slin/igf help in maintaning your gains with the possiblity of getting a little leaner, while thickining your phsyique with less weight and hiher reps? (refering to the hgh/igf)


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Yeah I understand what you are saying Gr8 1 though my thinking is that I want to use GH for 2 reasons

1. to get massive

2. to get massive

It's so expensive that I wouldn't want to use it away from gear as all you will be doing is slowing catabolisation - great, I'll spend hundreds of quid just so I get smaller at a slower rate. 

If you are using GH for fat loss then really you have money to burn. Instead send me the 100's of quid that you'll spend and I'll write you a diet and training plan to maximise GH output while using natural (or not) inexpensive fat burners. 

If money is no object then GH in the off course period would be good - hell I'd use it all year round if I could afford it, but when you are talking about maximising gains/results with the limited resources you have then I believe in whacking all the gear in at once for short periods and having adequate rest between cycles.

That's only my opinion mind.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

gr8 advice, i do agree that gh/igf/slin are best used while on cycle, and if you decide to bridge slin/gh would be the way to go,


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Tinytom said:


> I never use IGF for PCT.
> 
> Whats the point? IGF + Test = massive gains
> 
> ...


I can see many reasons for running diffrent meds for PCT like:

1. keep gains by running IGF-1 during PCT to avoid catabolism while HPTA is restarting.

2. nolvadex is known to lower IGF-1.

3. From Dr. Scally, HGH ran with HCG aids in testicular recovery and function if ran during PCT.

4. IGF-1, HGH, both put you in positive nitrogen ballance, which will aid in muscle growth.

5. Both HGH and IGF-1 offer some fat loss capibilities.

steroids and this even goes for orals raise IGF-1 anyway, sure adding more in will yield more results of hyperplasia, but 50 days is about the max you can run IGF-1.

If you do a 12 week cycle that is 84 days, so if you cycled it off for 30-40 days before starting your PCT you can have both benefits of running it during the cycle to get the biggest bang for your buck and during PCT to get your biggest bang for your buck as a good PCT should last 45 days for full recovery.

So, I see that there can be the best of both worlds here.

Even run IGF-1 during a shorter cycle and HGH during PCT, better bang for your buck as well.

But next cycle I will be running IGF-1 during so who am I to say otherwise


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## chemist (May 17, 2006)

i will be using igf during my pct for several reasons, firstly to see whether or not it does help to retain gains after steroid use. secondly for the pumps i get from it as hopefully this will help with motivation down the gym at a time when i'd normally be feelig sh~t and also to keep the intesity high again to help keep gains


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

That's good points Hackskii.

In an ideal world I would run GH with PCT but my goals are super size and so that's why I do it the way I outlined.

A recreational user should follow something like what you have outlined as it the best way of staying safe.

I think there's a good argument for both sides depending on your goals.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think if you time your cycling of IGF you can do both.

But you can not go wrong using HGH during PCT infact I would recommend it.

I just cant afford it


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