# Starting 5/3/1 but can't squat or dl



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Starting this and sticking to it for a while, I will be training x4 ew. But I can't squats or deadlift, so my leg day will be:

A)

Leg press 3x5, 3x3, 5/3/1 etc etc

Leg curl 5x10

Leg press (again) 5x15

B)

Then chest:

Bench press 3x5 etc etc

Full bw dips 5x10

Incline bp 5x15

Tri's clbp 5x5-8

But deadlift day I'm not sure what to swap with it, it will have to be back day I'm thinking:

C)

Pull ups 3x5, 3x3, 5/3/1 etc etc

Rows 5x10

Pulldowns (machine) 5x15

Bb curls 5x5-8

Then shoulders:

D)

Ohp (smith) 3x5 etc

Upright rows 5x10

Should press (machine) 5x15

Bb shrugs 5x8-10

Look ok???

Or is it better if the 2nd exersise is the same as the 1st? Iv seen a few variations on the net...

So from my list above just swap 2nd and 3rd around.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bump


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## jaycue2u (Jul 23, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Bump


Cant answer mate, but am interested myself as I have disc bulge in my lower back so cant DL, squats are ok with good form, but DL is just a no no.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

jaycue2u said:


> Cant answer mate, but am interested myself as I have disc bulge in my lower back so cant DL, squats are ok with good form, but DL is just a no no.


Yeh I had a prolapse that was operated on and 2 buldges so its on and off all the time now, so iv dropped dl and squats, leg press is fine tho.


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## jaycue2u (Jul 23, 2011)

stone14 said:


> Yeh I had a prolapse that was operated on and 2 buldges so its on and off all the time now, so iv dropped dl and squats, leg press is fine tho.


I found leg press was fine until I went heavy / low rep, then it played up again. Fvcking backs!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Iv noticed today that if I twist my hips slightly I get no pain, atm iv got a pain in my right side when I lean forward and had a little pain doing leg press today but ust shifted my weight more onto my left ass cheek and the pressure on the right side was gone, still pressed no problem, this is on a 45degree seated leg press

This twist raised my right ass cheek off the seat abit more and my left leg/knee on a slight outward angle, but still no problems, felt very comfortable.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Bump for today


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ok decided to go with this:

*Monday:*

bench 5/3/1

bench 5x10

dips 5x15

cgbp 5x10-15

back rows 5/3/1

back rows 5x10

bb curls 5x5

*Wednesday:*

leg press 5/3/1

leg press 5x10

leg ext 5x10

leg curls 5x10

*Friday:*

ohp 5/3/1

ohp 5x10

upright rows 5x10-15

cgbp 5x10-15

trap shrugs 5x10-15

pullups 5/3/1

pulldowns 5x10

hammer curls 5x5

*Saturday:*

leg press 5/3/1

leg press 5x10

leg ext 5x10

leg curls 5x10

the assistance exercises will only have the last set to failure.

also listed close grip bench press in chest and shoulder day, im going to try it with both and see were it feels it fits the best to train tris, with chest or shoulders, and just pick 1.

look ok? im on cycle atm but will be coming to a trt cruise in about 5-6weeks for a while. plan on running this routing till the end of the year adleast, unless it gets boring or something comes up.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

5/3/1 is a great program but sometimes a program just isn't suitable for your goals or capabilities due to injuries etc.

that said personally I would have set it up like this for a 4 way split:

Chest+Tris with bench and cgbp done 5/3/1

Back+Bi's with Rows done 5/3/1

Legs with leg press done 5/3/1

Shoulders done with Seated OH Press 5/3/1

+ whatever accessories you like done BB'ing style ramping to a top set of 6-12 reps


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

MutantX said:


> 5/3/1 is a great program but sometimes a program just isn't suitable for your goals or capabilities due to injuries etc.
> 
> that said personally I would have set it up like this for a 4 way split:
> 
> ...


thanks dude, yeh I wasn't sure wether to replace deadlift day with just back exersises or more legs, I realy want to work on my legs and arms as there lagging without training them much with my back problem plus no squats and deads so thought legs x2 would help.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I would do rows as my main move at 7/5/3 instead of 5/3/1 and chins/pull up as assistance


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

@Pscarb is the man to ask about leg training without squats. Looking at him he obviously knows his stuff .

I might be wrong but I am sure that he suffered an injury where squats were not an option.


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## Cythraul (Oct 5, 2011)

You've pretty much changed everything that makes 5/3/1 ..5/3/1

5/3/1 is for strength or rather all about the bench/squat/deadlift

If you cant do 2/3's of the program..its not for you..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Cythraul said:


> You've pretty much changed everything that makes 5/3/1 ..5/3/1
> 
> 5/3/1 is for strength or rather all about the bench/squat/deadlift
> 
> If you cant do 2/3's of the program..its not for you..


The 5/3/1 layout iv got off the net had:

Main exersise 5/3/1

Same exersise again 5x10reps

Secondary exersise 5x15reps

So the layout is the same to the 1 iv got. It also says add in as many assistance exersises as you like.

Also iv had to change it abit because I can't squat or deadlift.

Also I think the layout I have is a hybrid of the 5/3/1 to fit a body builders needs also, the website had a few variations.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> I would do rows as my main move at 7/5/3 instead of 5/3/1 and chins/pull up as assistance


Yeh iv just done my chest wo today and my front delts were on fire right through to my joint after the deep dips, couldn't manage my rows so will have to do legs x1 ew and do back on the origional deadlift day.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Cythraul said:


> You've pretty much changed everything that makes 5/3/1 ..5/3/1
> 
> 5/3/1 is for strength or rather all about the bench/squat/deadlift
> 
> If you cant do 2/3's of the program..its not for you..


5/3/1 can be seen as just a set/rep scheme and progression model

With the last set being as many reps as possible it's not really that different to a normal bodybuilding method anyway


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Try front squats or partials .

As for deadlifting go sumo it hits legs more than back .


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Just to point out that 5/3/1 has different assistance rep ranges to choose from iirc juggernaut , fat bastard , aint doing jack , are naming a few and theres a fair few to choose from .


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Stone. Pm me your addy.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ewen said:


> Try front squats or partials .
> 
> As for deadlifting go sumo it hits legs more than back .


Was doing light front squats ok at 1st then the slightest movement in my back set my disc off, so its just not werth it, I could try with a belt on I supose, same with deads I could only do light if anything, I can do lunges in a smith machine ok so there sort of like a single leg squat, keeps my hips at the right angle.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I've had 3 slipped discs and it was 5 years before I was able to squat again. I found that by starting with box/bench squats I was able to keep my upper back in an upright position during the movement and take the strain away from my lower back. In time, I built up to conventional squatting, but I still alternate with box squats every so often.

Deadlifts have proved more problematical, although I can now do light deads using the sumo stance.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Maybe I could start with the bench in between my legs in a smith machine and do partial squats to start....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

have you tried Box squats?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> have you tried Box squats?


no theres no box in my gym to do them, would have to be the high of the bench.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

stone14 said:


> no theres no box in my gym to do them, would have to be the high of the bench.


The bench will be fine. Probably an inch or so above parallel but not to worry...


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

stone14 said:


> no theres no box in my gym to do them, would have to be the high of the bench.


do they have those rebok step things in another room?

Another alternative is to stack the 20 on top of each other until you get the right height


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> do they have those rebok step things in another room?
> 
> Another alternative is to stack the 20 on top of each other until you get the right height


yeh the have them, good idea, there upstairs tho probably put away, I don't mind trying the bench and loosing a couple inches,


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Most benches are around 17 inches which is there or thereabouts if you sit down properly and not just touch and go...


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

stone14 said:


> yeh the have them, good idea, there upstairs tho probably put away, I don't mind trying the bench and loosing a couple inches,


I use those boxes. Perfect height. I also row from them, put them on the lowest setting and do row from a complete stop. It's SOOOOOOOOOOOO good for increasing strength and putting less stress on the lower back

If you are having lower back issues it might be better to start slightly high on the regular bench and work lower after


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Don't worry about weight or depth to begin with. The whole idea is to train your body into keeping your torso upright whilst performing the movement. The bench allows you to stick you ass out and sit back thus mimicking an Olympic squatting style.


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