# Creatine



## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Been training just under a year now, and wondered if its time to start takin creatine?

Was looking at it in the shops last week, but wor lass was like

"Your not getting stuff like that, It'll knack your kidney and liver up, anti toxins etc blah blah blah"

So chaps? is it any good? is it 100% safe and nothing EVER mad happened of it? no side effects later on in life?

Views on cell-tech also, please


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

Jonny, Creatine is one of the most widely researched supplements around rather than go through the process of exactly how it works have a quick google search of it or look at somewhere like: Creatine Information Center

Cell Tech is basically creatine with dextrose and alpha lipoic acid to help your muscles absorb the creatine better. In all honesty though, IMO like a lot of these big branded companies Cell Tech is just a very well advertised overpriced product and from personal experience I found it no better than any other creatine product.

You have a couple of options with creatine, I hear a lot of people including on this forum getting great results with Kre-Alkalyn products such as Bodybuilding Supplements, Fitness Clothing : Kr-EVOLUTION (240 caps) [Kr-Evolution 240] - Â£44.95.

I have not tried them but will do at some point in the future, no doubt you will get some others recommending this product also.

I have taken Creatine on numerous occasions of the last 10 years and get good result from the following.

5 days of creatine loading 20-25g a day (spred throughout the day)

Following this 5-10g a day (5g pre & 5g post workout)

On training days I would mix 5g with my pre work out drink, normally something like Garnell Enrage. And stick the other 5 in a post work out drink like cnp pro-recover.

I would do his for 4-6 weeks then come off for the same length of time.

This has worked for me and also I think the most cost effective way to do it, if you already have a pre and post workout drink the creatine powder is probably only going to cost you around £15.

I would definitely recommend using creatine, Like I said there has been so much research done on it as a supplement you should feel safe taking it.

People report less/no side effects from the Kre-Alkalyn products and personally I have experienced no sides from any creatine appart from perhaps increased urination and increases in strength and weight :thumb


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

I dont have any drinks before or after the gym.

I was thinking about taking one with water or a non-acidic drink in the morning, then one after training.

5grams? That seems hardly none LOL considering each scoop of whey is apprx 28grams. ?


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Forgot to mention, why do you need to come off it for? if it isnt a drug, and is completely safe?

thanks for your info, just new to the supplement side.


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

I would definitely invest in a post work out drink as straight after training is when you need to feed the muscles the most. I would also invest in a pre work out drink, which along with the creatine will help you train that bit harder. Kre-Alkalyn products are around the £40 mark, where as you can get a pre & post work out drink and creatine for around £55.

No it's not a drug, did you not read the information from the link? Like I said there is endless amounts of info online about creatine and cycling have a look as it will help you understand better.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

yeah i read it, and looked around on google, seems safe to me. Just dont like the look of ablet form LOL, hate tablets, taking 1 mulit vitiman in the morning is bad enough.

I have a whey protein shake straight after my workout... (i no i should have some carbs in there too)

then a meal within 30mins of that, meat/fish and rice/veg.

Prior to the gym i eat my own bar.

Each bar is: apprx 50g oats, 30g peanut butter, 1 scoop whey, 1/2 egg, dash of milk, dash of orange juice, dash of lemon juice, raisons, apricots, flaked almonds.


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

Just get the powder then, it's much cheaper anyway and the money you save you can get a decent post work out drink as well :thumb

Bars sound great by the way :clap2:


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

What power do you reccomend?

you can get the cell-tech off ebay, 3kg approx £40.

last a while that seems...... are the scoopers provided? ( 5g scooper ) ?

I'll post my bars in the recipe part if you like.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ohhhh jonnys turning to the darkside...

cellltech no no no no!

krevolution..


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

dont be daft cal, just learning.

darkside? i thought that was meant for "taking roids". Am still remaning natural. Can you get that KR is powder form? just i can get tht celltech quite cheap thats all, cheaper the better when your still an apprentice


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

lol just teasing you bud...

not much of a fan of the big companys..

cheaps cheap tho...

if i can i`d go with a bulk powder supplier..


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

jonnymc said:


> What power do you reccomend?
> 
> you can get the cell-tech off ebay, 3kg approx £40.
> 
> ...


Jonny that is a good price but 3kg of cell tech is not 3kg of creatine, I think a serving of cell tech is around 100grams (10g of creatine per serv) so that would be 30 servings, plus they recommend taking 2 servings for the first 5 days so that tub would only last you 25 days.

I'd go for something like 500g of reflex: Reflex Creapure Creatine and spend the money you save on a post work out drink, some even contain creatine in such as extremes build & recover which I believe Cal baths in :heh:

or something like pro-recover which I normally use:


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

reflex is a good average priced brand that rarely gets knocked...

cnp is top price innit?

good stuff tho..

mmmmmm extremes build n recover now thats top quality at a keen price..(and from a scotsman too! :becky

i`m skint bud, i use an unflavoured whey concentrate from bulk supplements direct as featured on the index page at English Muscle Training Forum

now thats spamtastic! :becky:

celltech is overpriced nonsense jonny on and above par to maximuscle.

if a substance is IOC allowed its unlikely to harm you.

but watch out for the shrinking testes lol


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Think i might just get a *recover shake*, as all i use after the gym is whey with milk, then a meal.

Honestly, doubting this creatine malarky lol, water retention etc....

I value my health alot, and want everything to remain in the best condition they can. Getting paranoid now lol..... :axe: :der: :axe:


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

better stop having a coffee preworkout then..

where do you draw the line bud?

i didnt use any supps for my first 3 years of successful training..

try the coffee and aspirin thing me and thunderman were discussing somehwere..its cheap!


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

Honestly mate, it's one of the most widely used supplements nothing is 100% safe as everybody reacts to everything differently but the only sides i've know of anyone having is mild stomach upsets which you could get from protein powders anyway.

:wacko: :decision::rip:

:lol:


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

cal, Garnell Enrage pre workout?

Reflex Creapure creatine, post workout with my new CNP pro-recover.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

First five days: 10g not adequate, then drop to 5g.

7.30am - porridge, eggs, 5g creatine in water or juice.

6.00pm - meat or fish with rice, 5 creatine in water or juice.

After 5 days are up....

Training days, - 5g in pro-recover.

Non training days, - 5g in drink at any time.

Just researched this, thats all:

loading phase:10g per day, as 2 x 5g servings for 5 days 5g per day, for 5 days 3g per day, for 7 days.Maintenance phase:2g per day, for 5 weeks.

followed by a period of rest from using creatine, or back on the loading phase.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

anyone?

is 10g a day (split into 2 x 5g) ok to start for my first 5days?

then drop down to 5g a day?

And what's it best taken in?

thanks.


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Johnny, are you aware you could have bought 750g of Extreme Creatine for £16.70 by using your Musclechat discount at Extreme Nutrition? That's 75% more than the Reflex one for the same product.

Or you could have saved yourself buying the creatine and bought Extreme Build & Recover which has HMB, Kre-Alkalyn creatine, 4 protein sources, 3 carb sources and 50% of your daily vitamins and minerals, a 60 serving tub would have cost you £56.20 with your discount.

Obviously you choose what you fancy but most of the guys on here use Extreme because they get a good deal, good service and good results.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Extreme, i still have not bought any creatine yet mate, still unsure, if you see my other link and read some of the reviews i did, as i was totally shocked.

Regarding your build and recover - ive already got a post workout shake, otherwise i would of got it.

i was just looking at creatine itself...

thanks.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

My mates have used cell-tech and have had gains with it!

But the doses they have you do are rather cheeky, you see creatine is not absorbed so well I think for something such as 3 or 5 grams worth you only really absorb 200mg (extreme can provide better figures for this).... so what do cell tech have you do to reach the 3g's your body can max in a day? Silly doses, with lots and lots of dextrose (but that's alot of carbs too). You will see size gains, but 8lbs of water retention? I dont think so thank you very much unless your looking to bulk!

But you could just buy the ingredients seperately for a vastly cheaper price!


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

A 2kg tub of Cell Tech only contains 200g of creatine believe it or not, it is mostly simple carbs (Dextrose 77g/100g).

The profit margin in this stuff is astronomical. How do you think they pay for all those pro's to say they use the stuff and for all those adverts?


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## Pikey1466867920 (Apr 24, 2004)

If I was going to use Celltech I'd save myself a load of money and go to a chemist and buy 2 kilo of dextrose for a fiver and if I didn't like the taste I'd mix in a bit of dilute squash. Wiith the money I saved I'd buy some KR. How on earth any company manages to sell a couple of K of Dextrose for £40 is beyond me, just shows the power of marketing got to be better margins than class A.

I remember being young - well just about remember - and worrying about all the bull s**t I'd read about this and that destroying you health. Creatine wasn't around at the time.

Jonny you have no risk whatsoever of destroying your health taking a course of KR creatine but as Dougie says if you're stressing about it you'll release hormones which will make you go catabolic and negate any gains you might make. I'd say you'd have a bigger risk using milk in your shakes as most adults to some extent are lactose intolerant...

The Alkaline balanced creatine products are good, they do provide a boost and also avoid the water retention of the previous generation of Creatine products. Take it as advised on the product packaging and there will not be an issue, these products are FDA approved as nutritional supplements.

My preference though is a product like B&R because you get a balanced nutritional profile along with creatine and other supplements, it works out a whole lot more cost effective than buying each individual supplement separately and it's easier to drink a couple of shakes a day than remember to take various different capsules - leave that approach to more advanced athletes...


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Well said Chris Pike!


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks mate!

Think i am going to try it, 1 month on, 1 month off? of 6weeks...on and off?

Going to get myself some B & R in the future also, as i already have a 5kg tub of CNP Pro recover to use up first. Plus i have reflex crepure creatine for free (this weekend) given to me, 1000g in total.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

Effects of creatine supplementation last upto 28 days post use.

Could cycle 2 weeks on and off!


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

As little as that?

I was also thinking about skipping the loading phase......

been readiong a few articles and many say, its just a gimmick to buy more? + its more than my body provbably needs, *5g* a day seems enough?

Question is :- what with?

-apple juice before *workout*?

-then with a fresh orange with my breakfast on *non training* days.


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

I find adding 5g of Creatine to just a regular shampoo really brings out the sheen in my hair.

:hippie:


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

LOL; Scan, Almost as funny as: Why wasn't the bodybuilder evicted?

A:Because he was squatting....

NOT!:becky:

Back of tub:

Instructions for use: To be used as a dietary supplement to help increase strength, energy and endurance.

*Loading Phase*: Take one measure (approx. 5gms) and mix with 500ml of water, fruit juice or meal replacement 4 times a day at regular intervals for 5 days.

*Maintenance*: Take one measure (approx. 5gms) daily with 500ml of water, fruit juice or meal replacement. Warnings: Do not exceed stated dose. Not to be used by pregnant or lactating mothers. Not to be used for more than 8 weeks at a time. A recommended break of 4 weeks is advised before using again

So,

I was thinking of just starting off from the maintenance phase, 5grams a day. Is fresh orange and fresh apple juice ok to have it with?


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

Jonny, I already told you how I would take it... Which is pretty much as instructed, you can take just 5g a day but IMO it won't work as well / quickly.

Mix it with anything but the higher the GI the better...


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Scrap the loading phase, its bullsh1t. Take a level teaspoon with breakfast and one right after training and continue doing that for as long as you want.

After around 3 weeks the blood serum level and ATP levels in the cells are the same, the loading phase is supposed to get you there sooner but most of it goes down the toilet so save your money and creatine.


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

I have read the loading phase isn't necessary, wish I still had my lecture notes on creatine!

Years back when I did use monohydrate.

Non training days, teaspoon with shake at breakfast.

Training days, morning and post workout shakes. (teaspoon each)

Worth noting, 1 in 5 people aren't affected by the use of creatine supplements.


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

Extreme said:


> Scrap the loading phase, its bullsh1t. Take a level teaspoon with breakfast and one right after training and continue doing that for as long as you want.
> 
> After around 3 weeks the blood serum level and ATP levels in the cells are the same, the loading phase is supposed to get you there sooner but most of it goes down the toilet so save your money and creatine.


Loading phase would only be a couple of extra £ in creatine, so in the grand scheme of things your not really wasting much money even if you do piss the excess away.

IMO if it gets you to that stage even a week quicker then its worth the tiny amount extra.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Mixed bag of opinions here...

I was thinking: Non training days - 5g with water, after breakfast

Training days - 5g with water BEFORE the gym

No loading phase.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

4 weeks on, 4 weeks off

????


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Here goes, You'll all be getting sick of this thread LOL

*First week:*

*5g* after breakfast with asda grape juice

*5g* after workout in with recover shake (traning days)

or

*5g* after tea (non traning days)

= *10g* a day for first week. (Loading)

Last 3 weeks, *5g* a day.

*5g* after breakfast with asda grape juice (non traning days)

or

*5g* after workout in with recover shake (training days)

= *5g* a day for last three weeks. (Maintenance)

4weeks on, 4 weeks off. layball:


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

jonnymc said:


> Here goes, You'll all be getting sick of this thread


:spit: uke:

Just get it started!

:rofl:


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Hey Johnny, why dont you buy K-evo capsules from extreme. Take 3 before training and 3 after, simple.....


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

thats planned better than some cycles :becky:


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

jonnymc said:


> 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off
> 
> ????


You could do something like that, id suggest 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off!

As I can't give you an exact level for what your phosphocreatine levels are going to be like 28 days post supplement use. However, your levels will be higher even when not using for that >28 day period.



London1976 said:


> Hey Johnny, why dont you buy K-evo capsules from extreme. Take 3 before training and 3 after, simple.....


2 before and after... unlikely that you could absorb more then 3 g's of creatine when it is pre-buffered.


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## Pikey1466867920 (Apr 24, 2004)

TheCrazyCal said:


> thats planned better than some cycles :becky:


Amen to that, although I don't know about some, more like most 

Dude just buy some, Extreme is good stuff, I'm not saying that just because I post on this site, get the KR take as advised and you will notice a difference, we're talking creatine here not mega doeses of Oxy-50...


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

only reason i spam extremes stuff is cos its exactly what it say its is and good quality at an average price..which is after all the panacea of most supps buyers...

i`m still looking for dirt cheap at top quality tho lol


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Ive got 1000g of reflex crepure for free, off a mate, to use first.

Plus prefer powders, just chuck it in with my post shake, and with grape juice in the morning.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

cant beat free, reflex is good brand too...


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Took 5g today, with grape juice - 500ml - half a f**king carton though!

lots of sugarsbad teeth lol

was wondering on gym days: 2.5 grams creatine and one scoop of protein + 50g blended oats about an hour before a workout... And another 2.5g and 1scoop of pro recover immediately after workout.

rather than the 5g after work out.


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## johnsamuel (Apr 2, 2010)

A few people may experience upset stomach as the body sometimes needs some time to adjust to the new diet regimen . You should however take these supplements under the supervision of an expert to avoid any complications.


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