# Trying to stay natural



## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

Been a tuff weekend for me, 4 weeks into a cutting diet and already I'm in a mental battle with myself. Few things bugging me, a guy from the same town has been training about the same length of time as me but has 4x the gains, obviously this guy has been using steroids and that's cool its up to him what he does with his life. But here is me struggling away with my ****ty diet doing everything to the letter not going out getting pi$$ed or eating cake and stuff, getting up at 5am 3-4 time a week to do cardio never missing a meal never missing a training night 100% dedication. This guy never sticks to a eating plan more or less eats what he wants (within reason), goes out on the weekend, misses training sessions left right and centre but still has improved his physique 10 fold. I'm starting to think who is the stupid cnut here? All you have to do is get on a cycle and bang it's a level playing field, no more "jeez have you seen so and so heez huge!!" "must be those protein shakes heez taking" "what you been doing dude heez 4x the size of you!!" Im putting myself through this torture and all I have to do to cure it is start on a cycle and ill get his gains or at least I know i'm on a level playing field. Add to that the fact that im cutting body fat and losing a wee bit of strength which is never nice and also losing size!! Nobody said this sport was easy but maybe it would be easier with a little help?


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## Foxy13 (Apr 10, 2013)

That's just the way it goes mate. Have thought long and hard about getting on it, but it's just not something I want to do. I'm happy battling away to try and improve myself naturally. I completely understand your frustration though.


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## alpoko (Jan 24, 2013)

I regularly go through this exact same thing mate when looking round the gym. the way I see it is, do i want to spend hundreds of pounds a month or whatever it costs (i have no idea) and be on drugs for the rest of my life to look good? Or do i want to buy into a lifestyle that i really enjoy knowing that im not totally dependent on drugs cos he sure as hell aint gonna look like that if he comes off the stuff... A cycle is for life not just for the summer is what i tell myself!


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## lotus (May 30, 2009)

Steroids arnt a miracle drug , genetics play a huge part and your cutting so how do you expect to be gaining mass ?


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

Foxy13 said:


> That's just the way it goes mate. Have thought long and hard about getting on it, but it's just not something I want to do. I'm happy battling away to try and improve myself naturally. I completely understand your frustration though.


Respect dude, I want to remain 100% natural as well but right now it's a mental battle!!


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## Xbigdave79 (Mar 30, 2012)

It sounds like you have been training for a while natty and gains have slowed down, now is the perfect time

To try steroids,trust me once you try them you will never look back ,just try not to get addicted to them

Make sure you cycle on and off and you shouldn't **** up your health


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

lotus said:


> Steroids arnt a miracle drug , genetics play a huge part and your cutting so how do you expect to be gaining mass ?


No they aren't a miracle drug but they do help a fair bit I'm sure you would agree with that, I don't expect to gain mass my goal right now is to lose BF, maybe I didn't make some of my points clear.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

paragraphs dude


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

MutantX said:


> paragraphs dude


There are time's when I wish id stuck in at school. :smartass:


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

alpoko said:


> I regularly go through this exact same thing mate when looking round the gym. the way I see it is, do i want to spend hundreds of pounds a month or whatever it costs (i have no idea) and be on drugs for the rest of my life to look good? Or do i want to buy into a lifestyle that i really enjoy knowing that im not totally dependent on drugs cos he sure as hell aint gonna look like that if he comes off the stuff... A cycle is for life not just for the summer is what i tell myself!


Good points mate.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

massmuscle said:


> There are time's when I wish id stuck in at school. :smartass:


Not being a cvnt mate, I just couldn't read that very easily (could be the hangover tho  )


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

you really think steroids are the reason hes doing way better than you are?? lol

we arent all born equal mate. and thats way before roids enter the picture


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)




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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

eezy1 said:


> you really think steroids are the reason hes doing way better than you are?? lol
> 
> we arent all born equal mate. and thats way before roids enter the picture


Maybe your right. I have considered this, that maybe im just not cut from the same cloth and his genetics are crazy good and mine are crazy bad, it certainly a possibility.


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## bobbydrake (Nov 19, 2012)

I'm quite happy staying natty. Lost the weight round my middle I wanted to and am (very) gradually putting some muscle on. To be honest I don't really look at others too much in the gym - everyone is different and me being in my 40's is probably a little bit of a hinderance. Just look at yourself and what you are getting out of it - there is always someone else who has got something better than you. Just be proud of waht you have achieved/will achieve!


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

massmuscle said:


> Been a tuff weekend for me, 4 weeks into a cutting diet and already I'm in a mental battle with myself. Few things bugging me, a guy from the same town has been training about the same length of time as me but has 4x the gains, obviously this guy has been using steroids and that's cool its up to him what he does with his life. But here is me struggling away with my ****ty diet doing everything to the letter not going out getting pi$$ed or eating cake and stuff, getting up at 5am 3-4 time a week to do cardio never missing a meal never missing a training night 100% dedication. This guy never sticks to a eating plan more or less eats what he wants (within reason), goes out on the weekend, misses training sessions left right and centre but still has improved his physique 10 fold. I'm starting to think who is the stupid cnut here? All you have to do is get on a cycle and bang it's a level playing field, no more "jeez have you seen so and so heez huge!!" "must be those protein shakes heez taking" "what you been doing dude heez 4x the size of you!!" Im putting myself through this torture and all I have to do to cure it is start on a cycle and ill get his gains or at least I know i'm on a level playing field. Add to that the fact that im cutting body fat and losing a wee bit of strength which is never nice and also losing size!! Nobody said this sport was easy but maybe it would be easier with a little help?


I posted a similar thread to this a while ago mate, it's very frustrating when you see people with half the dedication get double the gains.

At the end of the day it's to you if you want to take steroids or not, you might get the body you want after 4/5 years of training and be proud to be able to tell people you did it 100% naturally, but then again, who really cares how you got there.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Stop fcuking around being natty and 'righteous' and build some muscle then!!!

You'll still have to work just as hard though mate.


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

I used a cycle to pack on some serious size, now finished up PCT and cutting naturally with great success atm... will be off for ages, good 6 months and might bulk cleanly end of year with some assistance 

It's a tool to do a job, not a miracle but respect you for sticking natty buddy.


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

C.Hill said:


> Stop fcuking around being natty and 'righteous' and build some muscle then!!!
> 
> You'll still have to work just as hard though mate.


I'm giving it some serious thought mate, and I'M under no illusions about the hard work part.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

massmuscle said:


> I'm giving it some serious thought mate, and I'M under no illusions about the hard work part.


I promise you won't regret it.


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

The-One said:


> Stop concerning yourself with what others are doing would be a start.


Quite an easy thing to say, but when you have a very competitive personality not such an easy thing to do. I wish I could take your advise.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

The-One said:


> Stop concerning yourself with what others are doing would be a start.


What a great first post on a new forum, good way to make friends.


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## lickatsplit (Aug 21, 2012)

he could be bulking? his diet might be a bit more strickter than yours, he might be allowing adiquate rest where you might not be. and his genetics play a big part too. play to your strengths, he might not be able to run further than 50 metres


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

1. post up diet and training plan

2. focus on improving yourself not looking at others, this is an individual game


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Nearly all natties struggle with this, I haven't taken aas in twenty yrs I was 23 when i last took anything I think back to the size I was then and wish I could be like that again, I'm 43 now with two kids and honestly don't think I could be assed

But I'm only back training again after all this time so maybe when the newbie gains stop I will reconsider


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

massmuscle said:


> Maybe your right. I have considered this, that maybe im just not cut from the same cloth and his genetics are crazy good and mine are crazy bad, it certainly a possibility.


Hmm....save like hell for a few months...get plenty of GH as well as a good hardcore cycle. In 6 months time youll be eating those words.


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

MutantX said:


> 1. post up diet and training plan
> 
> 2. focus on improving yourself not looking at others, this is an individual game


I'm 5ft 11, 30yrs old, 188lbs 8oz, 10-12% BF (not sure of an accurate way of measuring this)

My current diet is below maintenance as I'm on a cutting phase just now but I was on around 4200 calories previously eating much and such the same food just more of it.

Meal1, 1xSlice brown bread toasted 6xegg whites 2xegg yellows scrambled 6:30am

Meal2, 1xBrown roll 60g Tuna 4xslices tomato 9:30am

Meal3, 130g Chicken breast 50g brown rice 80g mixed veg 1xtbsp olive oil 1xtbsp Swartz seasoning 12:30pm

Meal4, 180g Prawns 50g brown pasta 80g mixed veg 1xtbsp olive oil 1xtbsp Swartz seasoning 3:30pm

Meal5, 130g Chicken breast 50g brown rice 80g mixed veg 1xtbsp olive oil 1xtbsp Swartz seasoning 6:30pm

Meal 6, 2xslices brown bread toasted 1xApple 1xscoop protein powder with 500mlxwater 1xpickled egg 9:30pm

Training

Monday AM fasted cardio/Chest & Biceps

Tuesday Back

Wednesday AM fasted cardio

Thursday Triceps/Shoulders

Friday legs

Saturday AM fasted cardio

Sunday Rest

Cardio is a 35-40min run, I train 8/10 reps 3 sets 3-6 exercises per body part.

I haven't thus far had any cheat meal 4 weeks in, and stick to this regime 100%


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## davidmackay (May 6, 2013)

Totally agree with the points about not comparing yourself to others. I always think this is good advice in all walks of life - money, looks..........

Comparing yourself to others will just drive you crazy as you will continualy look at those 'better' than you and be unhappy that you are not like them. Whilst I lift to try and change my body shape, I also know I will never be the size of some the guys in the gym, and maybe never be the size I might think I want to be. So, I also try and be happy with the size I currently am. Appreciate there's an apparent contradiction here....


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

i tried to stay natural once.


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

The-One said:


> How much have you lost so far?


10lbs


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## MakkaL (Apr 15, 2013)

I'm struggling to find out the reason for posting this thread mate?


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

MakkaL said:


> I'm struggling to find out the reason for posting this thread mate?


Just thought id get it of my chest. See what folks thought. Im struggling to see the point in your contribution?


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

the thing that puts me off most about AAS is seeing all the guys that turn into acne magnets from it

looks fcuking horrible


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

eezy1 said:


> the thing that puts me off most about AAS is seeing all the guys that turn into acne magnets from it
> 
> looks fcuking horrible


That the shutdown and the roid rage is the 3 things that's kept me natural.


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

Delboy GLA said:


> That the shutdown and the roid rage is the 3 things that's kept me natural.


What's the shutdown?

You hear that a lot of the side effects are overhyped in the media and what not, that roid rage is a myth?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

massmuscle said:


> What's the shutdown?
> 
> You hear that a lot of the side effects are overhyped in the media and what not, that roid rage is a myth?


Your natural test levels not returning once you finish your cycle, if you do a proper pct you should be fine, but there's always that chance....


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

massmuscle said:


> What's the shutdown?
> 
> You hear that a lot of the side effects are overhyped in the media and what not, that roid rage is a myth?


Your balls stop producing test due to the external source the body has got use to, libido drops and you'll have difficulty maintaining erections or general interest. During cycle guys tend to take stuff to keep the libido ticking over or at the end of the PCT usually it's certain drugs can kick it back into line.

Dunno bout roid rage ive heard both sides of the story. Think defo tren has some black marks against it as far as emotional sides


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

bottom line is its a very personal choice you need to make

dont let someone elses results or someone elses praise sell it to you. 90% of the time people could get the kinda results they are looking for from diet tweaks


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Delboy GLA said:


> Your balls stop producing test due to the external source the body has got use to, libido drops and you'll have difficulty maintaining erections or general interest. During cycle guys tend to take stuff to keep the libido ticking over or at the end of the PCT usually it's certain drugs can kick it back into line.
> 
> Dunno bout roid rage ive heard both sides of the story. Think defo tren has some black marks against it as far as emotional sides


i always thought libido went up during a cycle?

and to the op im natty but I know I wont be forever


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## Delboy GLA (Oct 23, 2012)

murphy2010 said:


> i always thought libido went up during a cycle?
> 
> and to the op im natty but I know I wont be forever


Yeah mate generally i think with test etc it does, but i've heard anavars can shut you down pretty hard during the cycle.


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## MakkaL (Apr 15, 2013)

massmuscle said:


> Just thought id get it of my chest. See what folks thought. Im struggling to see the point in your contribution?


No need to get ar*sey, just saying, either you take them or you put up with slower gains...


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

MakkaL said:


> No need to get ar*sey, just saying, either you take them or you put up with slower gains...


this is the dilemma mate! and I apologies for my ar sey ness.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Its a personal choice. Why do assisted and non assisted people get so agressive towards each other.


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

Totally feel your struggle mate!

Been "dieting" - Eating clean and under maintenance to cut - for about 12 weeks now. Cut BF% from about 17/18 to 13 and lost around 10/11 lbs (though weight isnt really important to me just a guide)

Seen great progress, massive improvement in body etc

Best mate has been attempting the same thing, pretty crap with his diet, sticks at it for a week or so then goes out weekends etc then back on diet for a couple days. Hes getting frustrated with the fact he isnt seeing as many gains, calls dietting boring and basically cant be bothered to put the effort in, so hes turning his head to anavar thinking its some sort of miracle drug. To be fair he has good genes and I know hes used something before and with very little effort (gym 1/2 a week if that) got very noticeable gains.

I just know itll be typical that hes going to get mega results from the var and look like hes spent months training and he'll over take me. Wouldnt be so annoying but I dont think id take to kindly to other people comparing the two of us, for example were going on holiday together so someone sees us side by side and makes a comparison. Id be pretty ****ed off knowing i did it the hard way and he "cheated".

End of the day its a personal choice, Ive tried a couple of things before and my body didnt react well to either, constantly felt sick and never felt well enough to train! If you want to be proud that your natural then stick to your guns and itll be worth it in the end. If you just want results and arent to fussed about how you get them, then why not try it?


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## massmuscle (May 29, 2013)

Scammell29 said:


> Totally feel your struggle mate!
> 
> Been "dieting" - Eating clean and under maintenance to cut - for about 12 weeks now. Cut BF% from about 17/18 to 13 and lost around 10/11 lbs (though weight isnt really important to me just a guide)
> 
> ...


Good post mate, nice to hear from someone with the same struggle!!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

training for me is about going to the gym each time and bettering yourself. Thats how you grow and improve. that whats motivates me

No different on steroids. You will yield far better results on gear no doubt, but struggle motivates me more the quick route to the end. Its like watching a cartoon on fastforward. I was always more of a kubrik man.

If you only care about results, get on the gear.

I was always a bit weird though. i don't mind the natty life


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

Came across this thread as I'm returning back to Natty now until further notice.

May use AAS again in the future. But for now I'm staying off all "alien substances" (as my fiancée refers to them lol) for her sake. It's causing problems again and it has done before. I'd rather have a steady sex life, no mood swings/temper and be healthier.

When on, I felt terrific, then it would catch up on me and I'd feel un-fit and breathless, then when coming off I hated losing size/strength and going back to having zero interest in sex. (That was the main concern). Except when I used Tren I became the most horrible person I've ever been... Never using that stuff again.

So I'm gonna just stick to good old food and rest lol.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

scott.taylor said:


> Came across this thread as I'm returning back to Natty now until further notice.
> 
> May use AAS again in the future. But for now I'm staying off all "alien substances" (as my fiancée refers to them lol) for her sake. It's causing problems again and it has done before. I'd rather have a steady sex life, no mood swings/temper and be healthier.
> 
> ...


returning to natty?


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

Part of the reason i chose not to convert would be everyone would ask me and id have to lie and im scared i might hasten my chances of going bald. But also i want to see what natural looks like when your as big as you can get just to know what is possible.

If the only reason your staying off is to not "cheat" then id say stop being proud and pin it.


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## bogbrush (Sep 19, 2013)

cudsyaj said:


> I used a cycle to pack on some serious size, now finished up PCT and cutting naturally with great success atm... will be off for ages, good 6 months and might bulk cleanly end of year with some assistance
> 
> It's a tool to do a job, not a miracle but respect you for sticking natty buddy.


YEAH just a little bit of insurance on all your hard work!


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## estuFilippe (Sep 10, 2013)

Its all about human psychology. Do you find when you go to the gym with friends you're comparing yourself to them on aesthetics and even in lifts comparing strength at a subconcious level?

Really thats all bull****. When I go to the gym I compete with MYSELF. Nobody else. The sooner you quit looking at 'the other guy' and transfer all that energy into bettering yourself you will look so much better for it. Why feel like you have to compete with others so strongly when everyones genetic potential is different and at a physiological level everyone is built different so its a complete waste of time. focus on yourself and with dedication, steroids (or not if you want to stay natural) you can still make gains !


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

stuartphilippe said:


> Its all about human psychology. Do you find when you go to the gym with friends you're comparing yourself to them on aesthetics and even in lifts comparing strength at a subconcious level?
> 
> Really thats all bull****. When I go to the gym I compete with MYSELF. Nobody else. The sooner you quit looking at 'the other guy' and transfer all that energy into bettering yourself you will look so much better for it. Why feel like you have to compete with others so strongly when everyones genetic potential is different and at a physiological level everyone is built different so its a complete waste of time. focus on yourself and with dedication, steroids (or not if you want to stay natural) you can still make gains !


Whilst I partly agree, the counter-argument is that if you only try and better yourself you may not reach your full potential as you've set an easily achievable goal.


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## estuFilippe (Sep 10, 2013)

On the other hand setting 'easily achievable' short term goals that you set yourself and consistently hit cumulates over a longer period of time and translates into long term success !


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

stuartphilippe said:


> Its all about human psychology. Do you find when you go to the gym with friends you're comparing yourself to them on aesthetics and even in lifts comparing strength at a subconcious level?
> 
> Really thats all bull****. When I go to the gym I compete with MYSELF. Nobody else. The sooner you quit looking at 'the other guy' and transfer all that energy into bettering yourself you will look so much better for it. Why feel like you have to compete with others so strongly when everyones genetic potential is different and at a physiological level everyone is built different so its a complete waste of time. focus on yourself and with dedication, steroids (or not if you want to stay natural) you can still make gains !


One of the most sensible posts I have ever read regarding working out / gym motivation.


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## estuFilippe (Sep 10, 2013)

Scammell29 said:


> One of the most sensible posts I have ever read regarding working out / gym motivation.


Thanks bro.

For example: friend who trains with me sometimes never trains legs and when he does squats with me he always feels like he has to compete with me, will attempt same weights when really he should lower the weight and hit good form. That's not me being 'OMG I lift so heavy', cause I don't. It's all relative, but it's this competitive aspect that sets my friend and so many others back that they need to feel like they're competing with others at the expense of themselves. Lift the lighter weight properly and make better gains!


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