# Performance enhancing drug discussion: Clenbuterol



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Use this thread to discuss, ask and answer questions regarding

Clenbuterol (Clen)

Clenbuterol is a sympathomimetic amine used by sufferers of breathing disorders as a decongestant and bronchodilator. People with chronic breathing disorders such as asthma use this as a bronchodilator to make breathing easier. It is most commonly available as the hydrochloride salt, clenbuterol hydrochloride.

Esters:



N/A oral medication


Route of administration:



Oral


*post your experiences with this compound in regards to:

cycle length, dosage and other compounds used if applicable.
side effects you physically noticed and blood work results.
how you rate the compound overall / comparisons to other compounds of similar nature, your overall gains vs the side effects.*

(keep discussion largely centered to the subject matter, excessive derailing will be deleted)


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

right so clen gets a bit of a bad wrap and MAYBE for good reason

compounds that accelerate the heart rate combined with a life style conducive to cardiac remodeling (ventricular hypertrophy) is probably not a great combination however you could argue the same for using gear period so again it's all risk vs reward as I'm constantly saying

that said I personally don't like the higher doses of clen as it does not fit into my personal risk vs reward of a little extra thermic effect for a whole lot more sides

this typically results in me going no higher that 80mcg as my top dose and I will slowly titrate up to this in a 20mcg per week fashion as needed

I say as needed in regards to sides as although clen doesn't need to exhibit sides for it to be working it is the gauge I use before increasing the dose quite simply because the sides suck

pros:

* increase in BMR, nothing ground breaking as such but an extra 300-400 kcal taken from your energy balance is considerable when down into the two thousands per day

* increase in strength, I've trialed this over and over and I get a significant strength boost from clen and not just a direct results of the energy it gives but as well it increases your muscles ability to contract harder and I've noticed on several occasions that I have gotten stronger during a cut because of this

* appetite suppression, kind of a given with most stims, nothing major like sibutramine (in those that respond to it) but definitely takes the edge off a touch

* kind of ties in with the first point but as an ace to play in a cut i do find adding clen will kick start fat loss more so than simply dropping the same equivalent number of calories from your daily allowance as it does have a direct effect on the fat cells (release of FFA, not to the same extent as yohimbine)

cons:

* increase in anxiety and paranoia

*insomnia if taken too late in the day (can happen even with an AM only dosing)

* increase in heart rate to worrying levels if overdose occurs

* cold sweats

* uncontrollable shaking, this can get REALLY bad, especially in the hands, I've been at the point where I can barely write in the past

* breathlessness, you almost feel as though you cant get the air in and out fast enough

* potential for cardiac necrosis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1831534/

* muscle cramps, this can be comically debilitating

just to go into those sides a little more and how to offset them

the anxiety is part of the territory with stims for some people unfortunately so its just a case of get on or get off the drug

increased heart rate to uncomfortable levels you can handle by slow titration of 20mg per week increases as needed (once sides become tolerable), removing caffeine entirely during the titration phase and SLOWLY reintroducing as there is a definite stimulatory synergy and find then stay at your terminal dose that you are comfortable with taking in regard to the potential CV effects

the shaking and cold sweats you just need to adjust to your dosing and they will pass, same for the breathlessness and insomnia

cardiac necrosis, can't comment, don't know enough to say anything conclusively based on what I've read but as with any PEDs don't take the piss would be a good start

muscle cramps you need to stay hydrated, consume plenty of potassium (this will also play into the ill effect on cardiac health as clen starves the heart of potassium) and 5g of taurine daily for duration of usage

these cramps are no joke, you'll get cramps in places you never have in your life and at times it is like being tortured 
as an example one day I clambered out of my car and my hamstring started to cramp violently so to stop this I locked my knee and pushed my glutes backward which caused my abs to cramp

so I hyper extended my back to relieve the abs which caused the other end of my hamstring to cramp so I bent forward to release it and the other end cramped

my wife was with me at the time and just walked off fed up of me twisting around screaming and shouting like I was being possessed in the middle of an Argo's car park with passer bys looking at me like I was totally insane

moral of the story; take your taurine! no exceptions


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## Djibril (Aug 14, 2009)

@swole troll How do you dose it mate? ED for x period of time, days on-days off, weeks on-weeks off?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Djibril said:


> @swole troll How do you dose it mate? ED for x period of time, days on-days off, weeks on-weeks off?


 20mcg daily am

For at least a week and assess tolerance to sides

If okay then I'll up to 40mcg and climb in that fashion getting as much as I can from each dose before upping it

Finally I'll settle at 80mcg daily for as long as I'm cutting for


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## Djibril (Aug 14, 2009)

swole troll said:


> 20mcg daily am
> 
> For at least a week and assess tolerance to sides
> 
> ...


 Thinking of adding it for my cut a bit later after ive already cut off some weight.

How do you compare it to ephedrine? im thinking between these two.

Yohimbine i may add towards the end of the cut to see if it does really help with stubborn areas


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Djibril said:


> Thinking of adding it for my cut a bit later after ive already cut off some weight.
> 
> How do you compare it to ephedrine? im thinking between these two.
> 
> Yohimbine i may add towards the end of the cut to see if it does really help with stubborn areas


 Keep it as a silver bullet

Really you do want to limit exposure just based on the potential for sides

Plus 300-400 kcal increase to your BMR isn't really that relevant north of 3000 calories

It really is best saved for when that 400kcal without decrease food is the difference between you staying on your cut or not.

Clen vs eph I'd say the former better for BMR increase and the latter for appetite suppression.

I will make ephedrine and yohimbine PED discussion threads in the future


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## Djibril (Aug 14, 2009)

swole troll said:


> Keep it as a silver bullet
> 
> Really you do want to limit exposure just based on the potential for sides
> 
> ...


 You are right, better adding them when its getting quite difficult lowering the calories, otherwise is just not being patient with the diet and expecting too much from the drugs.

I mean, when you start dieting with 300 grams of carbs and 250 grams of protein, you shoudlnt really be needing that much of a product to help you.. Now cut that carbs by half and i may like something to assist me


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Djibril said:


> You are right, better adding them when its getting quite difficult lowering the calories, otherwise is just not being patient with the diet and expecting too much from the drugs.
> 
> I mean, when you start dieting with 300 grams of carbs and 250 grams of protein, you shoudlnt really be needing that much of a product to help you.. Now cut that carbs by half and i may like something to assist me


 Yea I mean as a rough rule of thumb if you are genuinely REALLY starting to struggle and are not only at a point where you are verging on chucking the towel in but also at a point whereby your goal is within reach (4-6-8 weeks away) then would be a good time to keep your macros as they are and add in clen and titrate to your comfortable dose for the remainder of your cut

As I said it'll help with appetite a bit, increase your BMR and also act as a moral boost that will help with adherence just knowing that you've added assistance

All of the above is in relation to someone already lean, on low calories and with a high energy expenditure, being fat and hungry doesn't count.


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Amazing write up mate. Hilarious at the end. :thumb


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

swole troll said:


> Yea I mean as a rough rule of thumb if you are genuinely REALLY starting to struggle and are not only at a point where you are verging on chucking the towel in but also at a point whereby your goal is within reach (4-6-8 weeks away) then would be a good time to keep your macros as they are and add in clen and titrate to your comfortable dose for the remainder of your cut
> 
> As I said it'll help with appetite a bit, increase your BMR and also act as a moral boost that will help with adherence just knowing that you've added assistance
> 
> *All of the above is in relation to someone already lean, on low calories and with a high energy expenditure, being fat and hungry doesn't count. *


 This.


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## wavefunction (Jul 29, 2019)

Is it wise to take Clenbuterol while on a bulking cycle? I assume not, but decided to ask anyway, just to be sure 

Also, what do you think of this:






Thanks


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

wavefunction said:


> Is it wise to take Clenbuterol while on a bulking cycle? I assume not, but decided to ask anyway, just to be sure
> 
> Also, what do you think of this:
> 
> ...


 Not watched the video

But to answer your question

no that would be foolish


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## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

@swole troll

Hi mate, quick question for you. Note you like to run Clen for the duration of your cut once you've worked up to your preferred dosage.

What are your thoughts on the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off approach to 'clear receptors'. Is this just BS 'bro science' stemming from people thinking the Clen isn't working unless they feel a buzz and the jitters? Or is there any sense behind it?


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

Ironman TS said:


> Is this just BS 'bro science' stemming from people thinking the Clen isn't working unless they feel a buzz and the jitters


 This mate! It doesn't down regulate. Jitters may subside but its still very active.

Here's a good podcast about it I listened to.....

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/beast-fitness-radios-podcast/id1065532968?i=1000431536149

Ignore the first 10 mins or so :lol: . He waffles at times but he's very informative.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ironman TS said:


> @swole troll
> 
> Hi mate, quick question for you. Note you like to run Clen for the duration of your cut once you've worked up to your preferred dosage.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off approach to 'clear receptors'. Is this just BS 'bro science' stemming from people thinking the Clen isn't working unless they feel a buzz and the jitters? Or is there any sense behind it?


 I don't run it for the duration of a cut unless starting lean

I wont go into say a 20 week cut and run clen from day 1 as I simply don't require it's assistance at that far out of goal body fat percentage.

But to answer your question about the 'surface effect' influencing the efficacy of the drug yes it's rubbish, the only thing that diminishes is side effects

one of which however is appetite suppression from the stimulant effect of clen and another benefit of that stimulatory effect is increasing NEAT / you tend to move more when full of energy

so there is some merit to keeping a higher sensitivity to clen by not running it for a long time but it will keep doing what it's suppose to do in regard to increasing your BMR for as long as you run it for.

Lastly clen has been shown to have some deleterious effects on cardiac tissue not to mention it's a heavy stimulant with a long active life so that's something else to take into consideration before running it for months on end

that and you just simply don't need it's subtle BMR increasing effects when you're still at 20% body fat with thousands of calories to pull from and likely room to increase cardio

clen should be the finishing touch for when you don't really have the calorie pool to pull from and you cannot feasibly fit any more cardio into your schedule.


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## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

That's great thanks mate.


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## Marzio (Mar 8, 2020)

This is really interesting...

I found that even with a low dose of 20mcg, although I didn't suffer with many of the physical/psychological sides, my hands just would not stop shaking.

That alone didn't really bother me, especially as I could see the results after getting to a point in a cut where I couldn't really do anymore cardio/reduce calories any further.

However as my job requires that I am able to keep a steady hand at a moments notice, I had to stop unfortunately. Was a real shame.


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## Jaling (Jul 5, 2018)

The thread should allow multiple actions for laughter, thanks and like lol the bit with u in the car ????

As for potassium I take would buying generic diarolyte type powders and consuming 3 to 4 times a day be a good idea? If not could you suggest how to keep potassium up? I've thought using potatoes as my carbon I take more so during the cut I stead of other things such as rice etc.. as tottys co tain higher potassium.



swole troll said:


> right so clen gets a bit of a bad wrap and MAYBE for good reason
> 
> compounds that accelerate the heart rate combined with a life style conducive to cardiac remodeling (ventricular hypertrophy) is probably not a great combination however you could argue the same for using gear period so again it's all risk vs reward as I'm constantly saying
> 
> ...


 And with 5g taurine. Wouls you split the dosage mor ing and evening or is once a day ebough ?


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## famasfilms (Oct 23, 2014)

Guy at my local supplement shop is offering me either clenbuterol or ephedrine, depending on what he can get hold of.

Ostarine for 45 days is the closest I've come to the "non-natural" path. I'd prefer he came up with ephedrine but am increasingly open to clenbuterol

I'm 39 and this is my current condition at 5'11










I cut down to 71kg for a holiday, was then abroad for 5 weeks, two weeks home and away again last week. I now have at least seven weeks at home with no travel, so I want to cut back to 71kg and potentially go to 70kg to really get more shredded than I have before, and then start increasing calories.

I ran the Lyle Mcdonald Rapid Fat Loss diet for 4 days before my last trip, and then decided to "carb up" for two days because I had a party on Saturday. I was away for a week and put a bit of weight back on.

By Rapid Fat Loss diet I mean literally eating chicken breast and veg, nothing else - 20g carbs, 20g fat and 250g protein. I think I can tolerate this for another seven to ten days but 1200-1300 calories a day is tough.

If I end up with the clen, what should my macros look like? Increase carbs to increase the calories?

And training? Right now I do PPL 5-6 x a week, with minimum 10k steps a day. I try and push this to 12-15k but low calories = heavy legs.


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

famasfilms said:


> Guy at my local supplement shop is offering me either clenbuterol or ephedrine, depending on what he can get hold of.
> 
> Ostarine for 45 days is the closest I've come to the "non-natural" path. I'd prefer he came up with ephedrine but am increasingly open to clenbuterol
> 
> ...


life is for living bro. Eat a sustainable, enjoyable varied diet


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

famasfilms said:


> Guy at my local supplement shop is offering me either clenbuterol or ephedrine, depending on what he can get hold of.
> 
> Ostarine for 45 days is the closest I've come to the "non-natural" path. I'd prefer he came up with ephedrine but am increasingly open to clenbuterol
> 
> ...


Why no carbs?


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## famasfilms (Oct 23, 2014)

FelonE1 said:


> Why no carbs?


I've been running the Clen / Yoh / T3 stack since 18th September - been keeping a log here 6 weeks to 40, aiming to get from 75.5kg to 70kg. Clen...


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

swole troll said:


> being fat and hungry doesn't count.


Damn!


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