# what is realistic for a natty?



## dopper (Aug 11, 2010)

Being a mere mortal and not dabbling in AAS what can be expected with serious training and a decent diet?

Obviously there are a million variables but how big can the average man get?


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## Kloob (Jun 3, 2012)

all down to your genetics. everyone is different mate so I wouldn't want to even try and guess how big you'd get. only way to find out is train, eat and sleep like a boss! :thumb:


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Not very big at all.


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## loftus (Mar 9, 2012)

whats ya height bone size small medium or large?meso ecto endo?some nattys only have to look at a wieght and grow!some have to fight for every ounce of muscle.most of my mates arms only grew to 16" natty mine went to !9" in 3 yrs natty doing any arm exercise but my lats i have to fight for every bit of growth..its so hard to say


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## dopper (Aug 11, 2010)

Well Im 5ft 11, 88kg and have tiny wrists and ankles. Just seem to have hit a bit of a wall the last 3-4 months with hardly any mass being gained in that time. Makes staying natty a bit depressing!


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

http://www.weightrainer.net/maximum_bodypred.html


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## anthony900220 (Dec 30, 2012)

As big as phil heath... He doesnt do roids hes natural:rolleyes:


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## tony10 (Oct 15, 2009)

dopper said:


> Well Im 5ft 11, 88kg and have tiny wrists and ankles. Just seem to have hit a bit of a wall the last 3-4 months with hardly any mass being gained in that time. Makes staying natty a bit depressing!


up your calories and protein intake.


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## dopper (Aug 11, 2010)

Mingster said:


> http://www.weightrainer.net/maximum_bodypred.html


Nice one, thats exactly the kind of thing i was looking for


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## TG123 (Apr 10, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Not very big at all.


this

wouldn't bother mate


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## MF88 (Jul 1, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Not very big at all.


Don't say that  , you'll make me start using these M1T caps.


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## MF88 (Jul 1, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Not very big at all.


Don't say that  , you'll make me start using these M1T caps.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

MF88 said:


> Don't say that  , you'll make me start using these M1T caps.


Fact is mate, You will use them one day. And the day you finish your cycle you'll regret not starting sooner for some strange 'principle' reason, it happens to everyone, get them down your neck now.

And add some test.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

C.Hill said:


> Not very big at all.


bit of a trolling comment mate bvut I'll bite on it anyway!

imo naturals can get actually very big compared to most recreational trainers and compared to a lot of AAS users too..... anyone whose spent time training with a decent/high level natural will know they can be monsters

the difference for me is that naturals dont usually look very big when fully clothed, whereas an assisted trainer can look huge.

one particular area is depth front to back, naturals just dont seem to ever achieve the thickness you see at a ukbff show


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## Lewy_h (Jan 4, 2012)

About this


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## MF88 (Jul 1, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Fact is mate, You will use them one day. And the day you finish your cycle you'll regret not starting sooner for some strange 'principle' reason, it happens to everyone, get them down your neck now.
> 
> And add some test.


I would add test but at the minute the only thing stopping me is cost. I need to buy my PCT for the M1T then I'm just gonna say fvck it and start them. I bet I will regret not doing it sooner, but that's just how it goes.


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## MF88 (Jul 1, 2012)

Lewy_h said:


> About this


I don't want to get THAT big.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

C.Hill said:


> Fact is mate, You will use them one day. And the day you finish your cycle you'll regret not starting sooner for some strange 'principle' reason, it happens to everyone, get them down your neck now.
> 
> .


I hope this was a joke... If not it's complete bullsh*t


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

20-30lb lbm max, say 0.5-1lbm per month, is pritty acceptable I think.


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## andwin37 (Dec 31, 2012)

dopper said:


> Being a mere mortal and not dabbling in AAS what can be expected with serious training and a decent diet?
> 
> Obviously there are a million variables but how big can the average man get?


pound for pound, any contender that attains 4-5 lbs of lean muscle year-end is nailing it. very few people reach their potential. the game is cost. count me in. who will sponsor me. lol.


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## exvigourbeast (Dec 4, 2009)

Pretty big . I found it very very hard to do it and remain in decent condition however. I was 21 stone 4lb the first time I ever took gear and would admit that I was carrying at least 3 stone of fat more than would be permissable to look like a bodybuilder, with lifts of around 177.5kg / 220 / 260 for bench/squat/dead and there is certainly nowt special about me. Others on here have been well in advance of that natural. I believe Matt Grif had a 300kg dead lift natural.

For some reason though as soon as some people do take gear they deny that there is any possibility of decent strength or growth without it as though the admission that this is bollocks detracts from their acheivements since taking it


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## TwoCanVanDamn (Jun 22, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Not very big at all.


I got to 6'2 240 lbs with roughly 12% BF as a natty. Pretty big my most peoples standard. Genetics and level of dedication is what dictates how big you get.

I'm quite a bit bigger now but I'm glad I waited and built a reasonable base first


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

TwoCanVanDamn said:


> I got to 6'2 240 lbs with roughly 12% BF as a natty. Pretty big my most peoples standard. Genetics and level of dedication is what dictates how big you get.
> 
> I'm quite a bit bigger now but I'm glad I waited and built a reasonable base first


Impressive stats mate!

My comment was more tongue in cheek though, tryna reel in the usual biters lol


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## TwoCanVanDamn (Jun 22, 2012)

C.Hill said:


> Impressive stats mate!
> 
> My comment was more tongue in cheek though, tryna reel in the usual biters lol


No problem mate. Guess I bit lol


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## loftus (Mar 9, 2012)

just try and reach natty potential first mate build a good solid foundation then when you do and you take gear you will be grateful you did..eat loadsa cals from a good sound diet and gain size first just keep yaself inspired and when you hit a sticking point take a weeks layoff get hungry for the gym and go again..its a tough road but worth it in the end..if you go the gear route now when you come off you could well end up smaller than you are now.

how many calories are you eating each day and from what foods?


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## davesays (Aug 9, 2012)

I really think this is the natural limit for your AVERAGE trainer. There are obviously genetic differences which allow certain nattys to gte bigger, for instance:


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Don't set limits to yourself


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## LIL-SCOOB-23 (Jun 16, 2012)

Im staying natty my main goals are strength and speed with a bit of muscle size and definition aswell .. have never been the fan of injecting chemicals into my body but everyone got there own opinion on things


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## badly_dubbed (Nov 21, 2011)

scott fcuking youtubewahssisname...herman

hes a d1ck. lol


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## Wardy33 (Nov 12, 2012)

dopper said:


> Nice one, thats exactly the kind of thing i was looking for


I use that calculator but I'm already bigger than what it tells me and I'm 21


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## andwin37 (Dec 31, 2012)

dopper said:


> Nice one, thats exactly the kind of thing i was looking for


invaluable tool.


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## andwin37 (Dec 31, 2012)




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## Hooded (Dec 16, 2012)

Too many people cry genetics in my opinion, I'm a small guy (5"6) with a small frame the heaviest person in my family next to me is 11 stone and he's fat, yet I'm sitting just under 14 stone bf around 10-12% abs are very big and visible front to back I'm looking very thick and I fill my T-shirts like baaaam why because I train like a phucking beast and I read a lot.

Now I understand genetics give us our shape but aren't we all training to change that?

Just my 2 pence based on my experience good luck OP.


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)




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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

andwin37 said:


> invaluable tool.


Piece of useless rubbish. What the f?ck, check with a computer calculator to see how big you can get? Means nothing the only way you can know is to put the work in and see where it takes you.

People posting pictures of f?cking fitness models are you mad, do you think that's the only look a natty can get? this thread is ridiculous.


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## Muscle Supermkt (Nov 28, 2012)

I'd say a good judge would be to head to a natural bodybuilding show. Before you say "they all still take drugs", I have been to both natural and untested shows and there is a clear difference. There may be some who compete in natural feds who use, however I'd say they are in the minority.

The NPA is a good start


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Wardy33 said:


> I use that calculator but I'm already bigger than what it tells me and I'm 21


Are you under 10%bf though, when you are then take the measurements again. I guarantee you do no have better proportions than Reg Park etc, I can see that by looking at you avi mate, although you are in good shape


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

NovemberDelta said:


> Piece of useless rubbish. What the f?ck, check with a computer calculator to see how big you can get? Means nothing the only way you can know is to put the work in and see where it takes you.
> 
> People posting pictures of f?cking fitness models are you mad, do you think that's the only look a natty can get? this thread is ridiculous.


It is actually a good calculator devised by Casey Butt using the measurements of top natty bodybuilders for the last 50 years. He said on another forum nobody has exceeded it yet with photo or in person proof


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

NovemberDelta said:


> Piece of useless rubbish. What the f?ck, check with a computer calculator to see how big you can get? Means nothing the only way you can know is to put the work in and see where it takes you.
> 
> People posting pictures of f?cking fitness models are you mad, do you think that's the only look a natty can get? this thread is ridiculous.


roid rage?


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## oldskoolcool (Oct 4, 2009)

You have a couple of options being natty depending on height/build and training time you can be lean and ripped maybe 80kg 6ft 6-8% bf or 100 @ 12%+ this is at 6ft if your under this the weights going to be less, aas would take the same person up maybe to around 100kg @6% 115kg @12% after this gh is needed for 120kg + and slin for 130kg+ this would be for the normal person not the freak of nature.


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## NovemberDelta (Apr 17, 2011)

PaulB said:


> roid rage?


Haha na mate fully Natty. Just don't see the point of a scientific approach to trying to work out how big I could get seems stupid to me. Far too many variables involved.


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## Grantewhite (Oct 15, 2010)

you can expect as a natty to get told ur small unless you train hard and get big in which case everyone will accuse you of being on gear lol , main thing is being a strong natty then you can laugh at the new muscle swolen idiots in the gym on gear who are weak as a kitten


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2013)




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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

if i remember correctly mike mentzor said 30 lbs of quality muscle is very good but most was 15lbs.


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