# bulk training



## anth45 (Mar 4, 2004)

hi guys, anyone got any good bulking routines im starting the gear on monday and iam wanting to get the most out of the gear.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Need to up the cals alot on that cycle you are going on.

I know guys that dont eat and they dont get much success.

Diet is huge.

But other than that basic compound exercises will work nicely here.

Bench, deadlifts, squats, dips, military press, bent over rows. I noticed my shoulders exploded on gear and I was not really working them. I have heard this is because of the shoulders having alot of receptors in them, chest too.

Might want to lower the rep range some but maybe keep it between 8-12 in the beginning, tapering down as the cycle progresses and the strength is comming alive.


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## anth45 (Mar 4, 2004)

thanks for the advice. is the military press similar to bench press?


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2004)

military press is a strict (no leg drive) overhead press with a barbell.

a great routine for AAS use would be this: (very close to my own current routine)

1.

Squat, wide stance, to paralell, up to a triple (at least 8 sets) + 2-3 singles on top

Olympic Squat, narrow stance, ass to grass with 70% whatever you triple, 3x5

GoodMornings, wide stance again, get a good stretch in the hams, 3x5

Calves raise or Farmers Walk, 3x5

Core and grip

2.

Overhead Press, either up to a triple, or 3x5

Dip/Bench press, 3x5

Chin/Row, 3x5

Cuban Rotations

1-3 Assistance exercises, like curls or CGbench, or pushdowns, 2x6 on each

3. (every other week rotate this deadlift day for another Day 1.)

Deadlift, 3x3 + a few heavy singles on top

Rack pulls, 3x3 using the heavist single you pull for deadlift, pull from knee height

Pullthroughs, 3x5

Snatch grip Shrug and Calves Rasie superset, 3x5

Core and Grip

4.

Overhead Press, either up to a triple, or 3x5

Dip/Bench press, 3x5

Chin/Row, 3x5

Cuban Rotations

1-3 Assistance exercises, like curls or CGbench, or pushdowns, 2x6 on each

that will fry the **** out of you and pack mass on like no-ones business. it is the routine i am following ATM. do not be tempted to do silly things like add in extra exercises/reps etc. give it 6 weeks and a natural would be 6lbs heavier, what it'll do on AAS god only knows.

though i will say this:

if you cannot construct your own routine, you shouldn't be using AAS imo.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2004)

nearly forgot. to maximise recovery:

1. =mon

2. = tue

3. = thurs

4. =fri

you can pout some active recovery sessions or possibly 1 HIIT session in there too. none of that sustained effort cardio nonsense though.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2004)

lastly, listen to hackskii. diet is 70% of your gains.


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## anth45 (Mar 4, 2004)

cheers for the advice guys. i think the only prob im gonna have is my diet sometimes during the day i just cant eat.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> lastly, listen to hackskii. diet is 70% of your gains.


Thanks James, I feel honored

You have to eat if you want to gain bro. Not garbage but food. Not shakes and bars and such but whole foods. This is where good health comes from.

Post your diet and lets have a look at it for some refinement.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

still no opinions at all on my routine. you guys must realy love it then.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

I don't really like it mate, but it's a lot different from mine and that's probably why.

I do (well I would if I wasn't out with an injury) when natural:

WU - Warm Up

F - Failure

Day 1 - Back, traps and biceps.

Lat pulldown 2 x WU, 1 x 10 1 x F

Deadlift 2 x 6

Dumbell Row 2 x F

Seated Dumbell shrugs 2 x 8-10

Standing Barbell shrugs 1 x F

Barbell Curls 2 x F

Seated Dumbell Curls 2 x 8-10

Concentration Curls 1 x F

Day 2 - Legs and Shoulders

Squats 2 x WU, 2 x 8 - 10

Leg press and Leg extensions super sets 2 x F

Stiff leg deadlifts 2 x 8-10

Leg machine curls 1 x 8-10, 1 x F

standing calf raises 3 x 12 - 15

Seated Dumbell presses 1 x 8-10, 1 x F

Side raises 2 x 8-10

Day 3 - Chest and triceps

Decline Barbell Bench 2 x WU, 1 x 8-10, 1 x F

Incline Dumbell Bench 2 x F

Dumbell Flyes 2 x 8-10

Cable X-overs 1 x F

Triceps extension 2 x F

Tricep Pushdowns 3 x 8-10

Sort of Ernie Taylor style in training not HIT but close to it.

When on a cycle I train like this:

Workout 1

Leg Press - 3 x 15 superset with Leg Ext

Leg Extension - 3 x 10

Decline Bench Press - 5 x 5*

lat Pulldowns - 5 x 5*

Dips - 5 x 10* *

Dumbbell Curls - 5 x 10* *

* Do two progressively heavier warm-up sets followed by three work sets. It should be really tough to do five reps on all three sets. Once you can get five reps on all three sets, add 10 to 20 pounds and start over the next time you use this workout.

* * Do two progressively heavier warm-up sets of 10 reps followed by three work sets, using enough weight to make it hard to perform three sets of 10.

Workout 2

Deadlifts - 5 x 5*

Military Presses - 5 x 5*

Barbell Curls - 5 x 5

C-G Bench Press - 5 x 5

Calf raises 3 x 15

Shrugs 3x 12

* Do two progressively heavier warm-up sets followed by three work sets with your top weight for five reps.

Workout 3

Single leg press - 5 x 2*

Bench Press - 5 x 2*

Hammer Curls - 5 x 2*

Incline Bench - 5 x 5* *

Machine Leg curls or SLDL - 3 x 10

* Do several progressively heavier warm-up sets of two reps until you reach the absolute maximum weight you can handle for two all-out reps. Do your final set at 90 percent of your one-rep max. If you are new to low-rep training, you may need to take it easy the first few times and use a weight that's 75 to 80 percent of your one-rep max. After that don't hold back.

** Do two progressively heavier warm-up sets followed by three work sets. It should be really tough to do five reps on all three sets. Once you can get five reps on all three sets, add 10 to 20 pounds and start over the next time you use this workout.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

BTW Anth you should try a few different workouts and find what works best for you as we're all different and what works really well for one may not work that well for someone else, tbh in an ideal world you should try a few different workouts before your start your cycle and once you've decided what works for you then proceed.


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## anth45 (Mar 4, 2004)

iam going to lower the rep range on my sets to 4-6 and increase the resistance. iam currently doing 8-10 reps per set. nice workout biker.


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

I agree with Biker it takes a while to get the right workout that suites you and one you see gains from what's good for one might not work as well for others. I would stay off gear untill you have your routine worked out to get the most out of your gear just play about with your workout till you get it right or you are happy with it.

What I did was to keep a record of weight used and reps and moved on from there.

A lot of people go to technical there is no need just keep it simple and remember form,diet,rest these are just as important as the actual workout.

Keep us posted on your gains dude....


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

biker, what don't you like about it?

i have a few thigns to comment on your routine too, if you want me to?


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

> What I did was to keep a record of weight used and reps and moved on from there


good post HD.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> biker, what don't you like about it?
> 
> i have a few thigns to comment on your routine too, if you want me to?


Comment away mate your more than welcome to, but both routines have come from years of trying different routines and that's what works for me.

Your workout is fine, but not what I would do if that explains better what I mean by I don't like it. I wouldn't be keen on your workout if natural as I think day 2 and 4 means chest, shoulders and back don't get much of a chance to recover but fine if 'on' and the question was if 'on'

Squat - 11 sets and 2 or 3 singles, bit much IMHO I would be off the opinion that single rep maxes shouldn't be performed more than once every month at the most due to injury risk, hence I prefer 2 reps in place of that.

I don't like good mornings and much prefer SLDL but horses for courses mate 

Workout 2 is fine and dandy I take it you mean dip and bench, chin and row or do you mean one or the other? or are you supersetting them?

Deadlifts good stuff but I'd rather see the heavy singles dropped and the sets pushed up to about 5 or 6 reps. then do 2 or 3 rep sets instead of singles.

Bit of a powerlifting workout more than a bodybuidling one, i.e. great for strength gains perhaps not so good for mass gains... the question then is Anth a powerlifter or a strongman, what's he want size or strength.

All in all not a bad workout mate just not what I would do but them I want mass and don't really care about what I can lift weight ways.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

First off nice routine Biker. Very complete. I also train like that. I save myself for the one big workset then off to the next excercise. I like that. I am constantly trying to get stronger. I have been reading James posts allot and have been incorporating some of it in my routine now. I always stuck between the 8-12 range and now I am going heavier and doing some 3 reps like James. Hey a change is good. I am the king of change but always stayed between 8-12. I kinda like it. James does reps of 3 but could actually get more reps so it really isn't to failure so to speak. Anyway I like your routine Biker and thanks for posting such a complete routine. Hey James what the heck are Cuban rotations?


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

biker,

thanks for the comments. its nice to see someone actually botherd to do so. i have some thoughts on your thoughts  <--- my first smiley.



> I wouldn't be keen on your workout if natural as I think day 2 and 4 means chest, shoulders and back don't get much of a chance to recover but fine if 'on' and the question was if 'on'


its meant to be like that. and i am pleased that you picked up on it.

2 things:

#1 the low volume (3x5) on bench for example is all you are doing for your chest. even twice a week its no more than 30reps. you have 50reps of dips alone, after 5x5 declines.

#2 it still requires a de-load session every 4 weeks or so. you are the only one that has noticed that. we obviously think (somewhat) alike. that would allow your body to supercompensate and that would make the routine fine, as in sustainable longer term.



> Squat - 11 sets and 2 or 3 singles, bit much IMHO I would be off the opinion that single rep maxes shouldn't be performed more than once every month at the most due to injury risk, hence I prefer 2 reps in place of that.


11 sets of which, 2-3 are sinlges. bit much? not really.

single rep maxes will stimulate the CNS far better than anythign else. they just don't allow for massive volume, hence the assistance work. i don't really wnat toget ointo this again; but there is NO injury risk with anything, if perfromed properly.



> hence I prefer 2 reps in place of that


i can pull 175kg DL for a single, and double 170kg. so the weight is not low enough

(when doubling) to reduce any injury risk, were there any in the first place.



> I don't like good mornings and much prefer SLDL but horses for courses mate


yep. fair enough. though GM's emulate the Squat movement 10x better than SLDL's and they are only there to boost the squat, not for direct hypertrophy stimulation.



> Workout 2 is fine and dandy I take it you mean dip and bench, chin and row or do you mean one or the other? or are you supersetting them?


one or the other.



> Deadlifts good stuff but I'd rather see the heavy singles dropped and the sets pushed up to about 5 or 6 reps. then do 2 or 3 rep sets instead of singles


that would not be good imho.

deadlifts are there for the CNS stimulation. the CNS controls your hypertrophy response. more weight = more tension = more recruitment = more stimulation = more proprioception feedback = more hypertrophy. 6 reps on DL would cane my lower back, that (imho) would be risking injury.



> Bit of a powerlifting workout more than a bodybuidling one


well spotted.



> .e. great for strength gains perhaps not so good for mass gains...


hell no, and yes.. i gained 6lbs in 5 weeks as a natural on that routine. its the ultimate hypertrpophy routine imo. my strength rockets too.



> All in all not a bad workout mate just not what I would do but them I want mass and don't really care about what I can lift weight ways


thanks. i agree that its unconventional. but i would love someone to try it for themselves. when i first did, i got the gains i deserved.

your routine, well, i'm not into failure training at all. and i don't like isolations before compounds either, or high rep sets (6+), or machines, or the split.

no offence intended there.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

cubans are an RC exercise, google them or have a look at t-mag.com


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> cubans are an RC exercise, google them or have a look at t-mag.com


Why should I google them when I have you right here? You will post and quote your asss off and make me do a google search? Fcuk that. God damn it.:mad: I bet if biker or hardrive posted it you would respond! Notice no smiley face:mad:


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## anth45 (Mar 4, 2004)

biker, im just looking for size gains. is it best to stay in a rep range of 8-10 or 6-8. ive heard and read so many different things dont really know what to use.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> its meant to be like that. and i am pleased that you picked up on it.
> 
> 2 things:
> 
> ...


#1 yes I can see that, and I think that would be fine if on, but when natural I always leave 7 days before working a body part again even if it was only a few sets each workout, when on a cycle I believe I recover quickly enough to work a part more than once a week. My 'on' workout is a killer, every workout makes me almost puke (lol on some occasions it's not almost  )

#2 agreed you would need to de-load



James.Titor said:


> 11 sets of which, 2-3 are sinlges. bit much? not really.


if you include both types of squats:

Squat, wide stance, to paralell, up to a triple (at least 8 sets) + 2-3 singles on top

Olympic Squat, narrow stance, ass to grass with 70% whatever you triple, 3x5

it is 11 sets + 2 - 3 singles is it not? But perhaps it's more to do with insensity, at the intensity level I train with I couldn't do that many sets, I can see that it would be possible if not training 'balls to the wall'

lol although with my knee at the moment I couldn't squat 20kgs, my knee is an ongoing problem which is fcuked at the moment. Hence I don't have many squats in my workout nor are they heavy (about 140kgs max pre-injury) I just can't do any heavier as I get a very sharp pain in my left knee. about 3 years ago my max was 195kgs for 2 reps - in theory I assumed I could have 1 repped more than 200 but I never tried. It's very frustrating to not be able to do what I used to but I really can't do anything about it.



James.Titor said:


> i can pull 175kg DL for a single, and double 170kg. so the weight is not low enough
> 
> (when doubling) to reduce any injury risk, were there any in the first place.


Interesting, I suspect your idea of a single differs from mine, to me a single is max exertion and would be risky to perform regularly. But the gap between my single max and 2 rep max would be much larger (so perhaps I'm giving it more on a single that you? if you see what I mean) at my peak I would have single repped 230kgs on DL but could only 2 rep about 215, as after a single at 230 I would almost need to lie down for a bit  Sets of 6 reps I would be in the 160 - 180 region.



James.Titor said:


> yep. fair enough. though GM's emulate the Squat movement 10x better than SLDL's and they are only there to boost the squat, not for direct hypertrophy stimulation.


Well we all find exercises we like and dislike, I dislike GMs and if I don't like an exercise I won't do it. But you do like them so cool keep them in 



James.Titor said:


> that would not be good imho.
> 
> deadlifts are there for the CNS stimulation. the CNS controls your hypertrophy response. more weight = more tension = more recruitment = more stimulation = more proprioception feedback = more hypertrophy. 6 reps on DL would cane my lower back, that (imho) would be risking injury.


I agree to a point, I would struggle with traditional 8 - 10 reps with DL for the same reason.

Can't really disagree with you but wouldn't be keep on singles, although I'll accept the 3 rep sets.



James.Titor said:


> hell no, and yes.. i gained 6lbs in 5 weeks as a natural on that routine. its the ultimate hypertrpophy routine imo. my strength rockets too.


well your right of course, more strength does = more size where as the same can't necessarly be said in reverse, well perhaps it can but not as much so.

I still think if mass alone was you main goal it wouldn't be ideal but you have enough 5-6 rep sets to give size gains. but if size was the only goal it would be far from ideal IMHO.



James.Titor said:


> your routine, well, i'm not into failure training at all. and i don't like isolations before compounds either, or high rep sets (6+), or machines, or the split.
> 
> no offence intended there.


no offence taken you train differently for me but you have different goals, having said that I see many similarities in my 'on' workout and yours, well certainly in the thoughts behind it more so than them looking similar.

I want mass, and I like a little strength also, for me I find about 6- 8 reps my ideal for mass although I've found 5 reps to also be very effective.

I think the difference simply is that I train like a bodybuilder.

I've tried many methods and to failure and complete muscle exhaustion is what appears to work best for my goals


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

> Why should I google them when I have you right here? You will post and quote your asss off and make me do a google search? Fcuk that. God damn it. I bet if biker or hardrive posted it you would respond! Notice no smiley face


winger,

[sigh] i am sorry you feel like that. if hard drive posted it i would ignore him. but thats for my own reasons.if biker posted it i would give him the same response for two reasons:

1. i make the effort to post as much infomation as possible, and you can't even be ****d to type 14 letters in a goolge search?

2. i do not like describing exercises online, there is no substitue for showing someone visulally. what if you understood it wrong and you injured yourself? i don't wnat that.

sorry if thats not what you wanted  . friends again?


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

> #1 yes I can see that, and I think that would be fine if on, but when natural I always leave 7 days before working a body part again even if it was only a few sets each workout, when on a cycle I believe I recover quickly enough to work a part more than once a week. My 'on' workout is a killer, every workout makes me almost puke (lol on some occasions it's not almost )


why would you leave 7 days between workouts when you don't need it. thats just wasting time. the whole point of this routine is frequency.



> But perhaps it's more to do with insensity, at the intensity level I train with I couldn't do that many sets, I can see that it would be possible if not training 'balls to the wall'


the intensity you have to train at to squat up to a max triple, then a single on top, isn't even comaparable to doing 5x5. hence why there are no isolations, pre-exaugsts etc. you don't need them, and you wouldn't be able to do them even if you did need them. i regualrly have nose bleeds during the final few sets.



> Interesting, I suspect your idea of a single differs from mine, to me a single is max exertion and would be risky to perform regularly. But the gap between my single max and 2 rep max would be much larger (so perhaps I'm giving it more on a single that you?


its only risky if you don't maintain impeccable form. i never sacrifice form for weight. even on 1RM attempts.

the gap between your single and double should be tiny. 5% at most.



> although with my knee at the moment I couldn't squat 20kgs, my knee is an ongoing problem which is fcuked at the moment.


i am sorry to hear that.


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## Biker (Apr 8, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> why would you leave 7 days between workouts when you don't need it. thats just wasting time. the whole point of this routine is frequency.


I listen to my body, when natural none of my bodyparts feel ready to be trained again unless I leave at least 5 days of a break. If it still aches I don't train it until it stops 

As I've said before I don't disagree with your workout it's just not the way I would do it.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

k, cool. each to thier own.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

wingfer,

Cuban rotations http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/cubanrotations.htm

tmag shoulder stuff http://www.t-mag.com/html/body_145shldr.html


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

> Me too.
> 
> It is failure to the muscle not mind. Sometimes the mind wants to give out before the muscle.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> wingfer,
> 
> Cuban rotations http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/cubanrotations.htm
> 
> tmag shoulder stuff http://www.t-mag.com/html/body_145shldr.html


I think I might try those. Thanks for the link. Yes we are still friends. You cant rub me off that easy. I wasn't mad at ya I still love ya........he he he.

It is very similar to a rotator cuff excercise my chiropractor gave me but with dumbells. With the db's never go over 5 pound


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

i do cubans with an oly bar and 5k a side. so 30kg total. i have worked up to that over a long time. thi is one instance when high reps are a must (20+ per set) as the RC is not very strong at all.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> i do cubans with an oly bar and 5k a side. so 30kg total. i have worked up to that over a long time. thi is one instance when high reps are a must (20+ per set) as the RC is not very strong at all.


But if you go too heavy the primary muscles (rotator) take a back seat to the other muscles. This is done with really light weight other wise it wont isolate the rotator cuff.

Heavy rotator exercises are actually counter productive from what I have learned.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> i do cubans with an oly bar and 5k a side. so 30kg total. i have worked up to that over a long time. thi is one instance when high reps are a must (20+ per set) as the RC is not very strong at all.


Well in my opinon that is way to heavy. This is not an excersise for building muscle per say. This it to tighten up the rotator muscles. If done correctly it will shorten the very small muscles around the rotator and make it tighter. Baseball players will do this too. Never go heavier than 10 pounds per arm with db's and never go lower that paralell to the ground. If you do then you will stretch the muscle and you dont want that. Just my two cents.  <------  . Got the smiley in there so I am covered.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

its not too heavy if you have worked up to it over a period of years.

i used to do 2x50 with 20kg and not realy feel it. so i upped it to 30kg and have stuck at that now for 6 months or so @ 3x20. the stronger your OHP+BP become, the stronger your RC's need to be. i have read many articles on RC training, and not once has it suggested that you should limit the amount of weight used. only that the minimum rep range should be 20.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

winger, what do you mean by parrallel to the ground? also, have you looked at the 2 links i gave? esp the t-mag one?


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## shovel man (Aug 26, 2004)

see what youve started anth lol heres another thread thats went off like a firework guys anth was asking about bulk training advice for him not youse.lol have a nice day now


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## anth45 (Mar 4, 2004)

lol. i dont mind its always fun to read.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

the high horse again but may i ask what age you are?, its just that ive not heard you in here for a while and your straight in as you were before, and youve clearly not gotten over it by the way you sign off, so heres something else to put in it get over yourself and grow up  , take care of you bye x .


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

James.Titor said:


> winger, what do you mean by parrallel to the ground? also, have you looked at the 2 links i gave? esp the t-mag one?


Yes I have and thanks. 

Its just that the excercises that my chiropractor gave me he was explicit that I dont go over 5 pounds. These are one arm excercises. There really not to build up the muslce just to tighten the muscles. The cuban rotations are a little bit different and you use both arms. Hackskii has been doing them and he loves them.  Nice to see you back on the board mate.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

can we all be happy , friendly , people this time:confused: ,i think it much nicer when we all get on together .


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