# help my biceps grow :< (pic)



## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

been stuck at 15.5 - 16 for to long now, they just wont grow no more.

Done all sort of routines such as

Incline Dumbbell curls 12reps/10reps/8reps

One handed Cable curls 15reps/10reps/8reps

2 Handed Cable curls 10 reps/8reps/6reps

...

Weighted Chin Ups 6repx 5 last one to failure

Barbell Curls 12/10/8

Hammer Curls 10/10/8

I do heavy rows. And deadlift once a week.










(blocked face i looked stupid lol)

Peak is crap, every thing else is coming on fine I think, especially my quads but I think my bicep genetics just suck? Any one else help out some routine or anything.

6foot 200 pounds

20 years old


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Do you train legs? Serious question.


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## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

Im not an expert but I can predict someone will ask about your diet. Maybe your having enough protein bud.


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mardinio said:


> Do you train legs? Serious question.


Yup, started them quite late, they growing like crazy lately.


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mattious said:


> Im not an expert but I can predict someone will ask about your diet. Maybe your having enough protein bud.


Everything else is growing fine though, my legs are exploding, my back/lats are looking good, just my arms, mainly bi's.

I been putting weight on gradually weekly, with out putting on hardly any fat so dunno whats going on lol


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

If you have just started training legs, expect to see some upper body growth very soon!

Compound exercises are the only real thing to add size to your frame.

Need good foundations to build a master piece lol

-Sounds like you're doing everything correctly

Carry on, and you should see some growth

Remember, genetics plays a big part in it as well!


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Btw, your arms look about right for your body...


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mardinio said:


> If you have just started training legs, expect to see some upper body growth very soon!
> 
> Compound exercises are the only real thing to add size to your frame.
> 
> ...


I've always leg pressed and leg extension, in old gym.

Moved gym in september 09 and started squatting in smith machine (no squat rack), now recently moved to a good gym with squat rack, atg'ing 80x 12 for 90x8, 100x6, 110x5 120x3/4, and heavy leg press, noticing alot of gains.

guessing 120kg squat is still weak, for reps but i still feels massive burn lol, is it easier to increase in weight/strength for squats? unlike bench which goes slow mode around 100kg.

(strong thread from biceps to legs discussion  )


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mardinio said:


> Btw, your arms look about right for your body...


Its quite a bad picture, my shoulders + chest outsize them quite a bit


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

(strong thread from biceps to legs discussion )

HA! the reason i asked about legs, is because you will never gain any more, if you dont do heavy squats.

I've said this before on here, but I have no problem saying again, because this is a place to spread your knowledge and help people isnt it!

Your body likes to be balanced. If you only trained your upper body..your body would constanlty try to balance your body out, by making you not grow anymore, and acutally try and reduce your out of proportion upper body size.

How to combat this? Like I said, TRAIN LEGS, HARD!

Another good thing about 'squats' in particular, the movment (under weight/tension) releases huge amounts of testostorone! The chemical responsible for your muscle growth!

I hope i have explained this enough, so you realise that legs is acutally strongly connected to your upper body.

Hope this helps mate!

-Also, just to clear up, COMPOUND exercises would give you far bigger 'guns' then say, just training your arms. This is fact, cant really explain without going into loadsss of detail, but trust me, its fact.

*Even when squating your biceps come into play, and the fact you are using so much more weight, then you would be able to doing bicep curls, forces your body to grow more, as you have damaged the muscles more due to the more extreme weight.

Deadlifts, BenchPress and Sqauts = Ticket the mother fu*king gun show! :high5:


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mardinio said:


> (strong thread from biceps to legs discussion )
> 
> HA! the reason i asked about legs, is because you will never gain any more, if you dont do heavy squats.
> 
> ...


Heh i was only joking about the discussion change, since my thighs been growing I do notice my overall mass has increased abit. But yeh I wish I was squatting since the start! although everyone starts bit clueless  thanks for help.

I Squat once a week (tuesdays) And deadlift once a week on a Friday, I also do heavy rows on friday, would you say thats enough? After my squat day im aching for 2-3 days.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Its no problem man! Always willing to help if i can, because theres a lot of things i'm clueless on and need help with.. i'm terrible with supplements, never used any haha!

Let us know if you gain anymore with the Biceps mate!


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mardinio said:


> Its no problem man! Always willing to help if i can, because theres a lot of things i'm clueless on and need help with.. i'm terrible with supplements, never used any haha!
> 
> Let us know if you gain anymore with the Biceps mate!


Heh same here, I just use myprotein instant whey + on serious mass + creatine from my and jack3d, good stuff that.

Do i have low inseration lats by the way? they seem to start really low lol


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

nathwoz said:


> I Squat once a week (tuesdays) And deadlift once a week on a Friday, I also do heavy rows on friday, would you say thats enough? After my squat day im aching for 2-3 days.


Hard to say because everyone is different, different recovery rates etc(sorry to use this old saying) lol but its true.

If you feel ok with it, i'm sure its fine mate.

I would perhaps aim for slightly under training than over training, because you can go backwards if you start overtraining i.e working out on still sore muscles.


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mardinio said:


> Hard to say because everyone is different, different recovery rates etc(sorry to use this old saying) lol but its true.
> 
> If you feel ok with it, i'm sure its fine mate.
> 
> I would perhaps aim for slightly under training than over training, because you can go backwards if you start overtraining i.e working out on still sore muscles.


yeh feel good with it suppose, cheers for help, suppose gona have to get those deadlift+squats weights increased 

bench wouldnt hurt either


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## swrutt (Apr 10, 2008)

As cal will say: if yo are natural then decrease volume of exercises. Try doing moderate warm ups and then go for an all out set for a bodypart. Also superset stuff (isolate first, then compound) -this allows you to put the muscle under a lot more stress as one support muscle is knackered. An example would be Leg Extensions (2 sec pause when leg is straight) - 6-12 reps, then straight onto squat for max weight 4-10 reps. You think you have felt a burn...... try that! Obviously take some warm up sets on squat before the leg extension. Finish that off with leg press and you are done for your legs. Remember, at the moment you are looking to put on as much size as possible, you can be concerned with muscle quality at a later date.


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## Spragga (Feb 16, 2009)

nathwoz - is that your arm routine that you have posted mate.......all of those different exercisers??????


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## bodyworks (Oct 17, 2007)

So the summary now is, if you want big arms, squat ?

man that's some misguided logic.

If you want to be bigger, squat. if you want to increase the size of you biceps predominantly, then train biceps. I advocate everyone do squats, they are great, but they absolutely will not give you full round peaked biceps no matter how heavy/often you do them. ever. Your arms look fine to me, but if you're unhappy with them, i suggest you overhaul your training approach. And as you said, you already squat and the legs are responding like crazy, so i would suggest you look more closely at your biceps/triceps training. I actually wrote a training article outlining just this point in the latest Health and Strength magazine. i recomend you read it if you can get hold of a copy.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Bodyworks said:


> So the summary now is, if you want big arms, squat ?
> 
> man that's some misguided logic.
> 
> If you want to be bigger, squat. if you want to increase the size of you biceps predominantly, then train biceps


I agree with bodyworks here, If you do squats it will make you stronger due to working every muscle in your body.

So if i do some bicep curls will my legs get bigger. lollayball:

keep training your biceps and they will grow but squats will not make them grow at all.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i think youre taking squat for big arms maybe a little too literally...

i reckon it just means if youre squatting hard and have maximal natural hormone output you`ll grow other bodyparts at a maximal rate..

ive added a stone in weight(since my op) well 10lbs more like and have indeed put an inch on my biceps.

if you ever come across the article you wrote i`d love a look...

oh yeah nathwoz..waay too many sets IMEHO


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Bodyworks and London, I do understand your skepticism, but if you do some research, you will find it to be true.

Your upper body simiply will hit a platau of growth once your body decidedes your body is too out of proportion.

2. To combat this, whats the simple answer? Balance it out but building your legs to the same size. And Squats is excellent lower body exercises due to two main reasons 1. Uses every muscle in body (and is compound=good for size) 2. It has been proven to release the most amount of testosterone into the body compared with any other exercise...which is good right?

3.Once your body is balanced again, you will be able to move past the plateu and thus you can increase you bicep size, chest size, delts size, anything! *****By doing the correct workout for that muscle group***** -Sorry i think this is where I may have confused you

4.But doing the squats will increase your bicep size for the method above.

I hope that makes more sense to you 

-In short, want bigger upper body? get bigger lower body

Thanks for reading.


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## Scan (Feb 18, 2010)

There are a few things I would try nathwoz, to see what works best for you

- Look at when you train your biceps, if you do them on back day switch them to chest day or vice versa. Training them on Back days will give longer recovery, training on chest days will work them when they are fresh, so advantages to both. Also if you train them on arms on separate days think about adding them to another workout or again vice versa, you will soon find what works best for you.

- Pick 2-3 exercises and stick with them for a month gradually trying to increase the weight reps etc, if your strength is going up muscle size should follow.

- I also like to add in a drop set or set of 21's for my final set every now again, I feel this helps to ensure you have gone to absolute failure on your biceps.

Hope this is of some use, good luck.

:lift:


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

*Ok I just did a quick google search to try and find where I read about this topic before, couldn't find it straight away, but theres loads on it and so will copy and paste this article by a different person who is saying the same thing!*

By Stuart McRobert

Adapted from his best-selling book BRAWN

To build muscle mass, you must increase strength. It?s that simple. You will never get huge arms, a monstrous back, a thick chest, or massive legs without lifting heavy weights. I know that probably doesn?t come as a revelation to anyone. But despite how obvious it seems, far too many people (and not just beginners) neglect power training and rarely make increasing the weights lifted in each successive workout a priority. You must get strong in the basic mass building exercises to bring about a significant increase in muscle size. One of the biggest mistakes typical bodybuilders make is when they implement specialization routines before they have the right to use them.

It constantly amazes me just how many neophytes (beginners), near neophytes, and other insufficiently developed bodybuilders plunge into single-body part specialization programs in the desperate attempt to build big arms. I don?t fault them for wanting big arms, but their approach to getting them is flawed. For the typical bodybuilder who is miles away from squatting 1 ? times their bodyweight for 20 reps (if you weigh 180 lbs., that means 20 reps with 270 lbs.), an arm specialization program is utterly inappropriate and useless.

The strength and development needed to squat well over 1 ? times bodyweight for 20 reps will build bigger arms faster then focusing on biceps and triceps training with isolation exercises. Even though squats are primarily a leg exercise, they stress and stimulate the entire body. But more importantly, if you are able to handle heavy weights in the squat, it logically follows that the rest of your body will undoubtedly be proportionally developed. It?s a rare case that you would be able to squat 1 ? times your bodyweight and not have a substantial amount of upper body muscle mass.

This is not to say that you don?t need to train arms, and squats alone will cause massive upper body growth. You will still work every body part, but you must focus on squats, deadlifts, and rows?the exercises that develop the legs, hips, and back. Once you master the power movements and are able to handle impressive poundages on those lifts, the strength and muscle you gain will translate into greater weights used in arm, shoulder and chest exercises.

In every gym I?ve ever visited or trained in, there were countless teenage boys blasting away on routines, dominated by arm exercises, in the attempt to build arms like their idols. In the ?70s, they wanted arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger, in the ?80s Robby Robinson was a favorite and currently Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, has set the standard everyone wants to achieve. Unfortunately the 3 aforementioned men as well as most other top bodybuilders have arm development far beyond the reach of the average (or even above average) weight trainer. But arm size can be increased. However, not in the way young trainers, with physiques that don?t even have the faintest resemblance to those of bodybuilders are attempting to make progress. Thin arms, connected to narrow shoulders, fixed to shallow chest, joined to frail backs and skinny legs, don?t need body part specialization programs. Let?s not have skewed priorities. Let?s not try to put icing on the cake before the cake has been baked.

Priorities

Trying to stimulate a substantial increase in size in a single body part, without first having the main structures of the body in pretty impressive condition, is to have turned bodybuilding upside-down, inside-out and back to front.

The typical bodybuilder simply isn?t going to get much meat on his arms, calves, shoulders, pectorals and neck unless he first builds a considerable amount of muscle around the thighs, hips and back. It simply isn?t possible?for the typical drug-free bodybuilder, that is?to add much if any size to the small areas unless the big areas are already becoming substantial.

There?s a knock-on (additive) effect from the efforts to add substantial size to the thigh, hip and back structure (closely followed by upper body pushing structure-pecs and delts). The smaller muscle groups, like the biceps, and triceps will progress in size (so long as you don?t totally neglect them) pretty much in proportion to the increase in size of the big areas. It?s not a case of getting big and strong thighs, hips, back and upper-body pushing structure with everything else staying put. Far from it. As the thigh, hip, back and upper-body pushing structure grows, so does everything else. Work hard on squats and deadlifts, in addition to bench presses, overhead presses and some type of row or pulldown. Then you can add a little isolation work?curls, calf raises and neck work (but not all of this at every workout).

The ?Driver?

The key point is that the ?engine? that drives the gains in the small areas is the progress being made in the big areas. If you take it easy on the thigh and back you will, generally speaking, have trouble making gains in the other exercises, no matter how hard you work the latter.

All this isn?t to say just do squats, deadlifts and upper back work, quite closely followed by some upper-body pressing work. While such a limited program will deliver good gains on these few exercises, with some knock-on effect throughout the body, it?s not a year after year program. Very abbreviated routines are great for getting gains moving, and for building a foundation for moderately expanded routines. They are fine to keep returning to on a regular basis. The other training isn?t necessary all in the same workout but spread over the week. This will maintain balance throughout the body and capitalize upon the progress made in the thigh, hip and back structure.

Just remember that the thigh, hip and back structure comes first and is the ?driver? (closely followed by the upper-body pushing structure) for the other exercises. These other exercises, though important in their own right, are passengers relative to the driving team.

Big Arms

To get big arms, get yourself on a basic program that focuses on the leg, hip and back structure without neglecting the arms themselves. As you improve your squatting ability, for reps and by say 100 pounds, your curling poundage should readily come up by 30 pounds or so if you work hard enough on your curls. This will add size to your biceps. While adding 100 pounds to your squat, you should be able to add 50-70 pounds to your bench press, for reps. This assumes you?ve put together a sound program and have worked hard on the bench. That will add size to your triceps.

If you?re desperate to add a couple of inches to your upper arms you?ll need to add 30 pounds or more over your body, unless your arms are way behind the rest of you. Don?t start thinking about 17? arms, or even 16? arms so long as your bodyweight is 130, 140, 150, 160, or even 170 pounds. Few people can get big arms without having a big body. You?re unlikely to be one of the exceptions.

15 sets of arm flexor exercises, and 15 sets of isolation tricep exercises?with a few squats, deadlifts and bench presses thrown in as an afterthought?will give you a great pump and attack the arms from ?all angles?. However, it won?t make your arms grow much, if at all, unless you?re already squatting and benching big poundages, or are drug-assisted or genetically gifted.

As your main structures come along in size and strength (thigh, hip and back structure, and the pressing structure), the directly involved smaller body parts are brought along in size too. How can you bench press or dip impressive poundages without adding a lot of size to your triceps? How can you deadlift the house and row big weights without having the arm flexors?not to mention the shoulders and upper back?to go with those lifts? How can you squat close to 2 times bodyweight, for plenty of reps, without having a lot of muscle all over your body?

The greater the development and strength of the main muscular structures of the body, the greater the size and strength potential of the small areas of the body. Think it through. Suppose you can only squat and deadlift with 200 pounds, and your arms measure about 13?. You?re unlikely to add any more than half an inch or so on them, no matter how much arm specialization you put in.

However, put some real effort into the squat and deadlift, together with the bench press and a few other major basic movements. Build up the poundages by 50% or more, to the point where you can squat 300 pounds for over 10 reps, and pack on 30 pounds of muscle. Then, unless you have an unusual arm structure, you should be able to get your arms to around 16?. If you want 17? arms, plan on having to squat more than a few reps with around 2 times bodyweight, and on adding many more pounds of muscle throughout your body (unless you have a better-than-average growth potential in your upper arms).

All of this arm development would have been achieved without a single concentration curl, without a single pushdown and without a single preacher curl. This lesson in priorities proves that the shortest distance between you and big arms is not a straight line to a curl bar."


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

London1976 said:


> So if i do some bicep curls will my legs get bigger. lollayball:


No, because bicep curls are in no way a compound exercise. Squatting uses your arms to some extent, however bicep curls are an isolation exercise which means its only using the main muscle;biceps

Cal you were spot on mate; Maximum testosterone realases and over all size(combined with arms exercises) will equal MORE growth for your guns, than doing countless bicep curls.

You need foundations to build a structure.

Hope this helps!


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## Spragga (Feb 16, 2009)

i cant really believe what im reading:der:..........anyway isolation exercises wont do anything unless your bodyfat is very low.........they are a waste of effort unless preping for a comp............

incline db curls 5 x 12-25

barbell curls 7 x 6-20

FST-7

CGBP 7 X 10-25

fst-7

give that a go..................


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## bodyworks (Oct 17, 2007)

i know what you're trying to say Mardinio and i agree, you do need to build an overall physique to maximise gains. but the original poster of this thread (sorry i can't even remember who that was know, sorry) is already building his lower body quite satisfactorally in his own words. So to further bring up his arm development, he's gunna have to concentrate on his arm training. it really is that simple.

to quote spragga

"anyway isolation exercises wont do anything unless your bodyfat is very low.........they are a waste of effort unless preping for a comp............"

i'm sorry i don't follow ? why are they useless and what relavance does bodyfat have ?


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## Spragga (Feb 16, 2009)

If you goal is building muscle mass (which it must be to build big biceps) compound exercises should make up the core of your weekly routine...... im not saying stop doing isolation exercises....... but use them to compliment your big bicep compound exercises.

Compound exercises allow you to lift heavier weights and work more muscle groups at the same time than isolation exercises...... this saves you precious time in the gym while stimulating the maximum amount of muscle fibers......... in addition compound exercises due to the increased amount of muscle used for the movements, are better at sending your endocrine system a "distress call" to pump out more anabolic hormones such as testosterone and growth hormone..........making your arms grow.........


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## Mikeelarge (Jan 12, 2010)

Scan said:


> There are a few things I would try nathwoz, to see what works best for you
> 
> - Look at when you train your biceps, if you do them on back day switch them to chest day or vice versa. Training them on Back days will give longer recovery, training on chest days will work them when they are fresh, so advantages to both. Also if you train them on arms on separate days think about adding them to another workout or again vice versa, you will soon find what works best for you.
> 
> ...


*I think this is a cracking bit of advice and would also recommend this.*

The topic was to build bigger biceps and this answers it, sorry to the guy who went on a mass promotion of the 'squat' but it aint really relevant dude.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Train biceps = Biceps will grow

Squats = Legs will grow

It is that simple.

When i do biceps i dont think i must do Squats.

:focus:

Everybody is different, just stick to 9 sets, mix it up abit

chins

curls

concentrate curls

now Bobs your uncle. :nod:


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mikeelarge said:


> *I think this is a cracking bit of advice and would also recommend this.*
> 
> The topic was to build bigger biceps and this answers it, sorry to the guy who went on a mass promotion of the 'squat' but it aint really relevant dude.


Yeah probably best advice, especially the 2nd part.

I switched my bicep day to my chest day couple month ago, always prefered to start them out fresh, then 3 days later I will do my back so they get hit on that day quite abit also.

3 sets of 21's? I dont often do them, used to but not in my new gym.

Also I don't often do preacher curls, due to having high bicep insertion(I don't have lower/long biceps what ever), thus making them useless? Is this true? Or am I hearing to many stuff, they've never really "done it" for me.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ive posted the brawn bit up before mardinio 

i`d try adding poundage single factor style to your back and biceps exercises and exhaust that possiblilty before you bother trying bulgarian triple drop sets n the like lol

the basics usually work for most bodyparts...

doesnt sound as exciting tho does it...lol


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Agree with Spragga and Scan!

We can only give advice, its up to you to listen to it/put it into practice mate :nod:

London - I already said after I asked about legs, that his routine looks good and he should see some growth in the biceps soon.. the reason why i posted more was because you didn't see the logic, and wanted to try and explain to you which may benefit you/others reading the thread 

*In conclusion: Stick with your compound exercises (Bench,deadlifts,rows,squats) and then add in some different variations of arm exercies.* - You seem to be doing this well, although like you said, you've just started with some of the compounds, so you will see some more growth!

Remember, if you're natural bb, genetics will play a big part in it too!


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

TheCrazyCal said:


> ive posted the brawn bit up before mardinio


Ahhh! :tongue1:


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## Spragga (Feb 16, 2009)

isnt training bloody brillient.........what works for some wont for others....

all the best mate and keep us updated..........


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Spragga said:


> isnt training bloody brillient.........what works for some wont for others....
> 
> all the best mate and keep us updated..........


heh indeed it is 

here what they look like from different angle










just as i woke up really after big of breakfast,looking small : - (


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

lol they dont look small...

maybe youre just focussing on them too much in your head?


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## Mikeelarge (Jan 12, 2010)

Looking at that picture, I think they look a nice size and are also in good proportion, if anything i'd look to size up your chest a little more.

Good luck with mixing it up a bit.:becky:


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## nathwoz (Apr 10, 2009)

Mikeelarge said:


> Looking at that picture, I think they look a nice size and are also in good proportion, if anything i'd look to size up your chest a little more.
> 
> Good luck with mixing it up a bit.:becky:


Hmm prob just me just thinking to much then, chest? Thought it was a strong point, doesn't really show much in that picture I suppose but its pretty strong, 44kg db press / 80kg inclinex8 / dips+20kg / flys so i wouldnt know how to improve that aha.










I just took that, i guess i am over thinking things, and my height doesnt really help since its going to make stuff look small, going to have to wait for the beastly arms i guess ha, only been training for 18month so im pretty happy where i stand i suppose, thanks for help will do what the guy said about sticking to same routine for 3-4 weeks and hoping to increase in weight.

Also get some fat kg's upgraded onto the squats+dl+rows  heh.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Defiantly in your head mate! lol

Good luck with your training buddy.


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