# HGH and pins and needles



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

So am on a low dose test/EQ cycle, plus am taking 2IU Ansomone HGH EOD x 4, 2 days off and repeat (do this as ansomone vials are 4IU)

Been taking HGH about 3 weeks. Had a little issue with BG but that has stabalized and been checking every day and less than 5.5 fasted

However, i have increasingly been noticing pins and needles in my hands, more so my left when sleeping only, not during day. Its getting more uncomfortable its waking me and need to shake my hand lower it.

By 7am when i get up my hand is noticeably swollen. However, soon after getting up and moving about there is no pins and needles or numbness. Gradually the swolleness goes down and back to normal

So is this early onset of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?

Am i best to persevere, put up with it and it will subside?

Am jabbing before bed, change to morning?

Should i give HGH a break, if so how long, then re-introduce at say 1IU EOD?


----------



## muscleup1975 (Oct 24, 2018)

I get this also with CJC DAC, used to get it with GH too, a lot of people do, your hands ache writing and even holding the steering wheel starts to pump up!

You would think this is due to lack of blood flow to the hands perhaps? But yet they seem to pump up, i do think its a blood flow issue for sure, but why I don't know.


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

muscleup1975 said:


> I get this also with CJC DAC, used to get it with GH too, a lot of people do, your hands ache writing and even holding the steering wheel starts to pump up!
> 
> You would think this is due to lack of blood flow to the hands perhaps? But yet they seem to pump up, i do think its a blood flow issue for sure, but why I don't know.


 Is It not the water retention that makes it swell up?


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

Pscarb said:


> yes it is, the water squeezes the nerve that causes the pins and needles, best thing to do is lower the dose


 Cheers Paul. Will lower, to 1 IU EOD you reckon? Do you know off top of your head how much is naturally produced per day?

Guys reckoned at 2 IU EOD i was wasting my time and money, any point at 1IU? Or is idea to get body used to 1IU and increase.

Seems pretty strong this ansomone 40IU kits :confused1: . Either that or it just doesn't agree with me.


----------



## steveiep (Oct 14, 2014)

Redsy said:


> Cheers Paul. Will lower, to 1 IU EOD you reckon? Do you know off top of your head how much is naturally produced per day?
> 
> Guys reckoned at 2 IU EOD i was wasting my time and money, any point at 1IU? Or is idea to get body used to 1IU and increase.
> 
> Seems pretty strong this ansomone 40IU kits :confused1: . Either that or it just doesn't agree with me.


 Not Paul but just wanted to say what's the point of surpressing your natural hgh release for using 1-2iu of synthetic hgh? You might aswell just use peptides imo. I get the same issue with the numb hands early in the mornings during sleep, being on AAS makes it worse


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

Pscarb said:


> it all depends on the reason to use GH, in our early 20's the peak of our HGH secretion we secrete on average 1-1.5mg per day so 3-4.5iu this declines by approx 15% per decade and many believe that this increases to 50% as we get into our golden years.
> 
> so if you are in your 40's then your estimated natural release will be approx 2 - 3iu per day but this will vary depending on stress levels, bodyfat etc......
> 
> 1iu per day is in my opinion only worth it if you are in your 60's or above, in my opinion 2iu per day or 4iu EOD is the lowest anyone should go.


 Aye, am in my golden years then, 44.  So my natural levels could be approx 2-3 IU per day.

Am right in saying using exogenous HGH shuts down all natural HGH production.? Whatever time you take it.

If above is correct, it does seem a little pointless at 2IU EOD.

So only point of using 1IU is to give my body time to become accustomed to exogenous HGH, then raise it up. After your thoughts ill have a small break, say a week, then start 1IU EOD, if no pins and needles raise it each week until i reach 4IU EOD. Reading some of your previous posts Paul, more inclined to do EOD rather than ED.

I did feel like i was getting some fat control benefit and skin felt better at 2IU EOD, but how much of it is 'in my head' its hard to say, definitely subtle, but am fine with that as am not doing extreme cycles.


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> it all depends on the reason to use GH, in our early 20's the peak of our HGH secretion we secrete on average 1-1.5mg per day so 3-4.5iu this declines by approx 15% per decade and many believe that this increases to 50% as we get into our golden years.
> 
> so if you are in your 40's then your estimated natural release will be approx 2 - 3iu per day but this will vary depending on stress levels, bodyfat etc......
> 
> 1iu per day is in my opinion only worth it if you are in your 60's or above, in my opinion 2iu per day or 4iu EOD is the lowest anyone should go.


 I had no idea we were releasing that much. If synthetic HGH causes temporary shutdown, could it not partly account for some people getting much better effects from synthetic HGH compared to the peptides? I mean if your glands ability to produce is sub optimal (due to exogenous HGH) that has gotta weaken the effects of peptides right?


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

So as an update. I had 2 weeks off GH.

Started back up and upped dose over week to where I am now. Taking 3iu EOD.

Am back with pins and needles and minor pain in hands, left worse than right. BUT only during sleep. Funnily if I change position of arms/hands in reduced to normal. However, when I wake up my hands are pretty swollen, left worse. Even my wrist you can tell are swollen.

Within 5mins of getting up, pins and needles gone and swollen appearance goes down soon after.

It seems to be only side am getting.

Showed and spoke to GP, she reckoned as suspected CTS but didn't tell her obviously about GH. So question is, once I stop GH will this side stop completely? Is there a risk it will continue?


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Redsy said:


> So as an update. I had 2 weeks off GH.
> 
> Started back up and upped dose over week to where I am now. Taking 3iu EOD.
> 
> ...


 Maybe just do 1.5 iu for a few days and then increase 0.1 iu every 2nd or 3rd day.

I followed a similar protocol with peptides and never got cts


----------



## adam28 (Jul 8, 2013)

Redsy said:


> So as an update. I had 2 weeks off GH.
> 
> Started back up and upped dose over week to where I am now. Taking 3iu EOD.
> 
> ...


 When you stop mate sides will go. Unless it's related to something obviously.....


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

adam28 said:


> When you stop mate sides will go. Unless it's related to something obviously.....


 Never had prior to AAS and GH. Confident it's water retention due to look and how it subsides.

Never done GH before, so hard to compare but me thinks ansomone maybe over dosed!? Seems pretty potent.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Redsy said:


> Never had prior to AAS and GH. Confident it's water retention due to look and how it subsides.
> 
> Never done GH before, so hard to compare but me thinks ansomone maybe over dosed!? Seems pretty potent.


 It won't be overdosed!

You'll need to reduce the dose and slowly increase.

Seems like you started on 2iu and had problems.

Had a break, then over one week, increased to 3iu?

To quick to increase the dose.

Try 1iu for a few days to see if you still have problems


----------



## adam28 (Jul 8, 2013)

Redsy said:


> Never had prior to AAS and GH. Confident it's water retention due to look and how it subsides.
> 
> Never done GH before, so hard to compare but me thinks ansomone maybe over dosed!? Seems pretty potent.


 Yeah. It's just dosed correctly. Unlike most [email protected] about. It's Pharma mate.


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

G-man99 said:


> It won't be overdosed!
> 
> You'll need to reduce the dose and slowly increase.
> 
> ...


 Yeah exactly that. I've only got 10days of a test/EQ cycle prior to an operation. I'll run the GH until then, then stop.

May as well stop the GH whilst I recover, then start the GH up again really gradually when I can get back training.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Redsy said:


> Yeah exactly that. I've only got 10days of a test/EQ cycle prior to an operation. I'll run the GH until then, then stop.
> 
> May as well stop the GH whilst I recover, then start the GH up again really gradually when I can get back training.


 I've had surgery 10 weeks ago and started HGH prior to it!


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

G-man99 said:


> I've had surgery 10 weeks ago and started HGH prior to it!


 Does the GH make a big recovery difference?


----------



## adam28 (Jul 8, 2013)

Redsy said:


> Yeah exactly that. I've only got 10days of a test/EQ cycle prior to an operation. I'll run the GH until then, then stop.
> 
> May as well stop the GH whilst I recover, then start the GH up again really gradually when I can get back training.


 GH will help you recover quicker from the op, stay on mate. A friend of mine fractured her wrist and recoverd super quick. She was taking 2iu per day Mon to Fri


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

adam28 said:


> GH will help you recover quicker from the op, stay on mate. A friend of mine fractured her wrist and recoverd super quick. She was taking 2iu per day Mon to Fri


 Aaaaaaa ok. But how the heck do I keep taking and get rid of this CTS.

So go to 1iu EOD, until operation, then start increasing. That gives me 10 days, 5 jabs I suppose.


----------



## adam28 (Jul 8, 2013)

Redsy said:


> Aaaaaaa ok. But how the heck do I keep taking and get rid of this CTS.
> 
> So go to 1iu EOD, until operation, then start increasing. That gives me 10 days, 5 jabs I suppose.


 I take 4iu mon to Fri, I don't suffer CTS. I mean I have had it a few times in the past and it don't bother me. Is that the only side you get. ? The longer you stay on it may subside....

I wouldn't go lower than 2iu tbh mate. But I guess you could do 1iu and build up to 2iu and then maybe 3iu if you find sides lessening.

Worst thing to do is when you 1st ever take HGH is start with high dose. Best to work your way up , let your body get used to it.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Dannyb0yb said:


> Does the GH make a big recovery difference?


 In all honesty I'm not sure!

I also used BPC 157, animal flex, collagen and ran 250mg test. Still using them 10 weeks prior apart from BPC as that is to be cycled every 6 weeks.

Tore my distal bicep tendon and now have it reattached with titanium wires and hooks.

So far my physio has been amazed with my speed of recovery and how far advanced it seems.

Still taking plenty of precautions though and not training the bicep directly until at least the new year


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

adam28 said:


> I take 4iu mon to Fri, I don't suffer CTS. I mean I have had it a few times in the past and it don't bother me. Is that the only side you get. ? The longer you stay on it may subside....
> 
> I wouldn't go lower than 2iu tbh mate. But I guess you could do 1iu and build up to 2iu and then maybe 3iu if you find sides lessening.
> 
> Worst thing to do is when you 1st ever take HGH is start with high dose. Best to work your way up , let your body get used to it.


 I know what you mean. Am a little confused TBH of best way to play it

Was doing 2iu EOD and got CTS, stopped worked it up a little to 3IU EOD and got it again. 2IU EOD seemed low dose to start with and consensus seemed like it was too low, even at 44yr old.

From what @Pscarb says 1IU EOD sounds like ill be suppressing natural GH and putting in less than my natural levels.

The CTS isnt that bad, i can deal with it at minute as only an issue during sleep. The real concern is of it worsening or not going once i stop GH!???

With 10 days to go to operation, which ill need 4 weeks to probably recover from, and now wanting to take GH during recovery peroid whats the best plan?

1st week - no GH

day 8 - 1IU GH

day 10 - 1IU GH

day 12 - 1.5 IU GH

day 14 - 2IU GH

day 16 - 2.5IU GH

day 18 - 3 IU GH

day 20 - 3 IU GH

day 22 onwards 3IU EOD GH

I do feel as if i can feel the benefits of GH, but am also on a mild test/eq cycle at present, so ill be a bit gutted if GH just doesnt agree with me


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

G-man99 said:


> In all honesty I'm not sure!
> 
> I also used BPC 157, animal flex, collagen and ran 250mg test. Still using them 10 weeks prior apart from BPC as that is to be cycled every 6 weeks.
> 
> ...


 Good luck with recovery


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Redsy said:


> I know what you mean. Am a little confused TBH of best way to play it
> 
> Was doing 2iu EOD and got CTS, stopped worked it up a little to 3IU EOD and got it again. 2IU EOD seemed low dose to start with and consensus seemed like it was too low, even at 44yr old.
> 
> ...


 You can also try and split up the dose into two shots.

Also drink plenty of water, helps


----------



## adam28 (Jul 8, 2013)

Redsy said:


> I know what you mean. Am a little confused TBH of best way to play it
> 
> Was doing 2iu EOD and got CTS, stopped worked it up a little to 3IU EOD and got it again. 2IU EOD seemed low dose to start with and consensus seemed like it was too low, even at 44yr old.
> 
> ...


 What might not be helping is you may be holding some water from your cycle if your e2 is high. Are you on an AI?

I would prob stay on 2iu abit longer than in your plan. No rush, just let your body adjust slowly. Less chance of sides.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

I would of just stayed on original dose, It stops or definitely gets better as body gets used to it, i also take 4iu ansomone 5 days a week and used to wake up with my hands numb as f**k and in some cases not being able to move my fingers, after few months stopped getting it like that all together sometimes get slight pins and needles but nothing like I used to.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Carpal tunnel syndrome

The second most common side effect of growth hormone is carpal tunnel syndrome, finger numbness, pain in fingers and wrists.

This effect should go away after about one month of HGH use.

The syndrome is caused by the compression of the median nerve in the wrist.

The median nerve is divided into four nerves, when it is compressed, the fingers become sensitive and you feel a tingling/cramping in them.

This side effect of HGH is caused by water retention in the wrists and an increase in bone mass.

This effect disappears after the carpal ligament becomes wider.


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

Sparkey said:


> Carpal tunnel syndrome
> 
> The second most common side effect of growth hormone is carpal tunnel syndrome, finger numbness, pain in fingers and wrists.
> 
> ...


 Cheers @Sparkey. Reckon that's it.

My left hand and wrist is pretty swollen, joints feel a bit achy, fleshy bit near thumb swells and bit of pain

So if I can put up with it, just carry on at same dose? Would you not bother reducing and building dose back up?

I can deal with it fine if I know it's temporary and not a health risk.

The only other thing to add which maybe completely irrelevant......

Broke this hand a few years back.

Also, recently picked up a minor tear in forearm muscle. To be fair only felt it with bicep curls and some back stuff so didn't let it stop training. Am smashing it at minute, probably over doing it knowing am under knife soon.

Anyway fffing tore forearm muscle worse yesterday, some swelling and a red line down my arm which was weird.

So the point being, with a minor tear in forearm, could that have caused any swelling, numbness in wrist hand giving these symptoms?

@adam28i did think about bloat from AAS, though think am doing ok on the E2 thing. However, am only going in feel no bloods to back it up. Not needing a great deal, arimidex 0.25mg EOD. Feel great. If I feel a bit tired and moody, see any change in nips, bring dose forward a bit.

@Matt6210, as above if it'll go and not cause health issues can deal with it. I must have added a couple of cm around wrist, left probably cm more than right. A clenched fist looks like a club hand in morning

Many thanks guys


----------



## adam28 (Jul 8, 2013)

Redsy said:


> i I must have added a couple of cm around wrist


 It never adds the cm's where you really want it to go #c0ck :lol:


----------



## Redsy (May 24, 2018)

adam28 said:


> It never adds the cm's where you really want it to go #c0ck :lol:


 Haha. Am all good there thanks and with the test am a cross between Dudley good f#ck and cassanova.


----------

