# Beginner's HGH dose?



## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

What would be a starting dose for someone who wants to try HGH for a few months?

I saw Pscarb's sticky about the study where people did 8iu Mon/Wed/Fri, for a total of 24iu/week.

Is that a good dose to start with?


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## varman (Jan 12, 2014)

Depends on goals really.

Fatloss? Go with low doses and fast while active. For fatloss 1iu gh is to lipolysis.

Gains? 4iu pre workout.

Hope this helps mate.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

varman said:


> Depends on goals really.
> 
> Fatloss? Go with low doses and fast while active. For fatloss 1iu gh is to lipolysis.
> 
> ...


 Thanks buddy.

I'm looking for gains, I have no problem with fatloss.

What's the mechanism for timing? I've heard people suggest pre-workout, post-workout, and before bed. What's the difference?


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## varman (Jan 12, 2014)

For gains you would want the gh to peak in blood around training and by taking the whole dose at once you will get maximum igf1 expression for that given dose.

By taking it eod in a pulsed fashion is also supposed to reduce downregulation of its update/efficientcy.

You could take it 1hr pre w. If you really wana go the extra mile add a nice intra drink, try to eat alot around training , post workout.

Do you have a log? Wouod be cool to see a blow up log.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

varman said:


> For gains you would want the gh to peak in blood around training and by taking the whole dose at once you will get maximum igf1 expression for that given dose.
> 
> By taking it eod in a pulsed fashion is also supposed to reduce downregulation of its update/efficientcy.
> 
> ...


 Thanks mate. Is that the mechanism of GH leading to gains? Increasing IGF1 during training?

Where can I learn more about this stuff? There's so much info on steroids, but I haven't found anywhere that explains GH or how it works, basic things like dosing, cycling, coming off, etc.

I had a log a while back, I didn't update it very much as I had a bad cycle and ended up getting fat, lol. If I start on GH, I'll probably start a new log.


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## varman (Jan 12, 2014)

Yes mate, theres several factors why you want it around training igf is a big one.

I learnt from several places but alot from dat. Was u on there? Its gone now.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

varman said:


> Yes mate, theres several factors why you want it around training igf is a big one.
> 
> I learnt from several places but alot from dat. Was u on there? Its gone now.


 dat? No, what is it?

With steroids you have loads of resources, books even, that break it down and explain it. Haven't found anything on GH yet, other than the odd post here and there on forums like this.


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## varman (Jan 12, 2014)

Tomahawk said:


> dat? No, what is it?
> 
> With steroids you have loads of resources, books even, that break it down and explain it. Haven't found anything on GH yet, other than the odd post here and there on forums like this.


 Ppl dont want to give too much out...they prefer to charge for it lol.

Dat was a forum..datbtrue. it was a guy that researched the f**k out of peps and gh. Showed the science behind the actions etc.

He suddenly died and it was shutdown about 2 months ago.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

varman said:


> Ppl dont want to give too much out...they prefer to charge for it lol.
> 
> Dat was a forum..datbtrue. it was a guy that researched the f**k out of peps and gh. Showed the science behind the actions etc.
> 
> He suddenly died and it was shutdown about 2 months ago.


 Hmm, well that's different to AAS where the info is just everywhere! I'll see if there is an archive for datbtrue. Thanks for the heads up.


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## varman (Jan 12, 2014)

Yeh i think the lack of openess is more about money. 'Coaches' charge ALOT of money for high level gh/slin advice so not many are willing to share.

Everyone and their cat is a coach now lol


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Tomahawk said:


> Thanks buddy.
> 
> I'm looking for gains, I have no problem with fatloss.
> 
> What's the mechanism for timing? I've heard people suggest pre-workout, post-workout, and before bed. What's the difference?


 it makes zero difference when you take GH, you get no extra progress of any significant amount by using GH around training or in the morning



varman said:


> For gains you would want the gh to peak in blood around training and by taking the whole dose at once you will get maximum igf1 expression for that given dose.
> 
> By taking it eod in a pulsed fashion is also supposed to reduce downregulation of its update/efficientcy.
> 
> ...


 could you explain why around training? considering it takes 4hrs for IGF to start to increase then peaks at approx 12hrs post injection

also could you give more detail to why its considered "Extra Mile" if you take it pre-workout?



varman said:


> Yes mate, theres several factors why you want it around training igf is a big one.
> 
> I learnt from several places but alot from dat. Was u on there? Its gone now.


 I learnt a load from Dat but I am struggling to understand what these several factors are to why you would take it around training could you give more details please?

the study that was originally mentioned in the OP's post did not specifically time the injections they used the GH between 8.00am and 3.00pm, there is no data to show a benefit of using GH around any time frame, many will make a conclusion from what they think should happen but many of these are created under the assumption that when you inject GH "things just happen" there is a complex process for the release of IGF from the liver as mentioned above this take 4hrs to begin to raise so not really needed around training.......


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## varman (Jan 12, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> it makes zero difference when you take GH, you get no extra progress of any significant amount by using GH around training or in the morning
> 
> could you explain why around training? considering it takes 4hrs for IGF to start to increase then peaks at approx 12hrs post injection
> 
> ...


 Lol, Nitpick much?

Why not around training?

I dont think science has established a best practice for bb gh use, so we have to listen to the best coaches about their hands on exp.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

its not nit picking you clearly said that you use it around training for the IGF benefit which is incorrect its not nit picking.....

I ask for the other factors for use around training and you come back with none how is that me nit picking?

I never said you shouldn't use it around training, I never said you should in fact in several hundred of my posts on GH I have clearly said it does not matter when you inject it......

listening to anecdotal advice is good but then putting a reason for doing it a certain way (IGF) is wrong and very flawed as it gives the impression thats why it must be done that way......

a bit of advice, if you are going to give advice that you feel is correct then at the very least be prepared to give the reasonings in more detail when asked.....remember this is a forum for discussion not for people to say something and it to be blindly followed.......

So back to my questions......

Given that IGF-1 takes 4hrs to release from a GH injection why would you use it around a workout?

Lets say that it takes minutes to release again why is that important to use it around a workout? will the IGF not be used accordingly at other times of the day?

What other factors are at play to get that "Extra Mile" you speak of?


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## Mobster (Apr 1, 2004)

There does seem to be as disparity between what people want the drug to do (understandable given the costs, trouble etc) and what it actually does.

The question of pre-workout is a good one. I doubt, even with my small knowledge on the subject, that there is any benefit to the workout from having GH 'usable' in our system. Post workout yes. And given the timescales PSC mentions taking it pre-workout means you'd see nothing worthwhile until 4 hours after. Not entirely pointless but certainly not ideal.

One thing I've mentioned when we decide to use any helpful pharma - esp the kind our body produces itself and to which we then add more - is to learn from how the body utilities said drug and then enhance that. Ergo GH being pulsed and used for short periods etc. From memory natural GH release is enhanced by fairly short high intensity type workouts with any sort of peak being after and 2-4 hours? Again from memory. Even then we might want to have it stay at some sort of level for a while. So, like PSC says, it wont' then matter when it goes in. And that's without studying the subject meaningfully.


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## Savage Lifter (Jul 14, 2016)

varman said:


> Depends on goals really.
> 
> Fatloss? Go with low doses and fast while active. For fatloss 1iu gh is to lipolysis.
> 
> ...


 What is your reason for saying this? Why low doses and fasting while active? Why 4iu preworkout? Do you have any studies to support what you're saying is the best to do?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

If you're looking for gains then surely steroids would be the simplest option rather than GH?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Smitch said:


> If you're looking for gains then surely steroids would be the simplest option rather than GH?


 yes steroids would be a better choice


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

1st thing in the morning is the best for me. 10iu EOD or 5iu ED


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Smitch said:


> If you're looking for gains then surely steroids would be the simplest option rather than GH?


 Yes, steroids is the simplest option.

But steroids+GH is more effective.


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## djboxwood (Dec 29, 2016)

Smitch said:


> If you're looking for gains then surely steroids would be the simplest option rather than GH?


 the best answer ever! GH will just give you extra results. if i was you, i would split my dose per 8 hours or more is possible, so its steady in your blood.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

djboxwood said:


> the best answer ever! GH will just give you extra results. if i was you, i would split my dose per 8 hours or more is possible, so its steady in your blood.


 sorry confused what is steady in the blood if you split it every 8hrs?


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

@Pscarb What's your opinion on this? For someone who's done a few steroid cycles and wants to try GH, what dosage and injecting schedule would you recommend?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

for me M/W/F is the better protocol, i would start at 4iu on those days and increase it to no more than 8iu on those days so a total of 24iu per week....


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> for me M/W/F is the better protocol, i would start at 4iu on those days and increase it to no more than 8iu on those days so a total of 24iu per week....


 Thanks, much appreciated. Is that all taken at once or would you split the dose on those days to morning/evening ?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

take all at once again there is no benefit to splitting it, some will say that the fatloss would be more because of FFA release but the fact that GH will be well above normal range for over 12hrs i see no benefit in multiple shots apart from it can lower the amount of water you hold overall.....i take mine all at once


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Pscarb said:


> take all at once again there is no benefit to splitting it, some will say that the fatloss would be more because of FFA release but the fact that GH will be well above normal range for over 12hrs i see no benefit in multiple shots apart from it can lower the amount of water you hold overall.....i take mine all at once


 I have read a lot of @Pscarb's posts over the last 12 months. During that time I have gone from using ED to EOD to MWF (roughly equivalent dose per week; in fact, I'm on less per week now than when I started) and noticed *no difference* in the results.

MWF = fewer injections and less admin, so I don't know why anyone (or any normal recreational athlete anyway) would bother with any other protocol than MWF.


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## notorious1990 (Mar 10, 2008)

arbffgadm100 said:


> I have read a lot of @Pscarb's posts over the last 12 months. During that time I have gone from using ED to EOD to MWF (roughly equivalent dose per week; in fact, I'm on less per week now than when I started) and noticed *no difference* in the results.
> 
> MWF = fewer injections and less admin, so I don't know why anyone (or any normal recreational athlete anyway) would bother with any other protocol than MWF.


 To the dreamers. Please take note of the word "recreational" in this post. :thumbup1:


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## cd1 (Jan 15, 2017)

varman said:


> Lol, Nitpick much?
> 
> Why not around training?
> 
> I dont think science has established a best practice for bb gh use, so we have to listen to the best coaches about their hands on exp.


 How's is it nitpicking !

When giving information it's meant to be good practice to give good and correct info


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## cd1 (Jan 15, 2017)

4iu everyday before sleep has worked well for me over the past 12 months with upping it to 6iu when the money is there ...haven't gone less than 4iu for the past 12 months and the muscle bellies are full with a bit of 3D look.

My last comp was 3 years ago and this time I will be looking to compete at 8kg heavier and I'm sure the GH has played a big part in the weight increase and my GH timing has been the same throughout


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