# Pro body builders don't train to failure?



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

I watch a lot of vids, Phil heath, branch warren etc

And what I notice I never see em need spotting for that rep or two, it may just be editing, it appears as they don't push for them extra reps, compared to nearly everyone I see doing, Including myself.

I may get proved wrong here, but its something I've noticed on a few vids

Do they just hit the reps they know they can complete in order to avoid injury, then increase the weight and again just hit the reps they know they can achieve?


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I haven't a clue what they do tbh but maybe they do things differently to get to their pro condition than they then do to maintain and perfect it?


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Mingster said:


> I haven't a clue what they do tbh but maybe they do things differently to get to their pro condition than they then do to maintain and perfect it?


Possibly mate

I've just yet to see a vid that sees em scream for the final rep.

Again, its probably edited that why, as clearly they lift the weights required


----------



## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

Dorian is the only pro I see who really trains to and past failure.

I remember reading somewhere that Dennis James trains to 1 rep short of failure


----------



## 9inchesofheaven (Apr 8, 2011)

I used to train 1/2 sets to failure and used to gain strength fast, but never much muscle, and I'd always hit a damn plateau after merely a few weeks.


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

live2liftt said:


> Dorian is the only pro I see who really trains to and past failure.
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that Dennis James trains to 1 rep short of failure


Food for thought then why most of us like a spotter.

Agreed the blood and guts videos are the only one where you going to your max reps


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

On most of the Kai Greene vids he's always on about stimulating rather than annihilating etc etc, think he says he goes 1-2 reps short of failure..

Personally don't believe anything they say though lol


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

9inchesofheaven said:


> I used to train 1/2 sets to failure and used to gain strength fast, but never much muscle, and I'd always hit a damn plateau after merely a few weeks.


Well I train on my own, and certain exercises I push as far as I go, but I'm toying with the idea of just leaving off screaming blue murder rep


----------



## 9inchesofheaven (Apr 8, 2011)

alan_wilson said:


> Well I train on my own, and certain exercises I push as far as I go, but I'm toying with the idea of just leaving off screaming blue murder rep


I'm very new to the non-failure approach, but with the added volume here's hoping for some good hypotrophic effects.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

If they're dieting-for a show,I doubt they'd manage a realistic failure. I know I can't when I've dieted.

The other thing is, as you hit failure more often, mentally you know when you're simply not going to do another rep. I know how many I'll manage before I'm near to failure because its more a mental thing although some days you're mentally good and drain so rapid it can take you by surprise.


----------



## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I watched a Ronnie Coleman one last night, where he was DB benching 90kg in each hand and had to be helped with the last 2 reps on the last set.

But I think most of it is editing


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> If they're dieting-for a show,I doubt they'd manage a realistic failure. I know I can't when I've dieted.
> 
> The other thing is, as you hit failure more often, mentally you know when you're simply not going to do another rep. I know how many I'll manage before I'm near to failure because its more a mental thing although some days you're mentally good and drain so rapid it can take you by surprise.


So they train more to how the body feels rather than X amount of minimum reps required per set

I can understand that

And again, if they prepping, they don't want to suffer an injury


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

We shouldn't be studying what pro bodybuilders do, we should be studying what they did to achieve that status imo...


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Mingster said:


> We shouldn't be studying what pro bodybuilders do, we should be studying what they did to achieve that status imo...


Apologies mate, but can you elaborate on that, as I don't follow what you mean, sorry


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Mingster said:


> We shouldn't be studying what pro bodybuilders do, we should be studying what they did to achieve that status imo...


Bit like those who no longer squat, it doesn't mean they all have never squatted.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

alan_wilson said:


> Apologies mate, but can you elaborate on that, as I don't follow what you mean, sorry


I mean that the training used by bodybuilders once they have achieved the physiques worthy of pro staus is often nothing like the training they used to get there in the first place.

Building the mass will take completely different training techniques than refining and honing that mass. We are not pro level so shouldn't base our training on those who are


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Mingster said:


> I mean that the training used by bodybuilders once they have achieved the physiques worthy of pro staus is often nothing like the training they used to get there in the first place.
> 
> Building the mass will take completely different training techniques than refining and honing that mass. We are not pro level so shouldn't base our training on those who are


Ah yes, yes I agree.

Cheers for that mate


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Why would every pro train to failure


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

ewen said:


> Why would every pro train to failure


Who said that?

I just asked why I never see a pro train to failure

Not about every pro


----------



## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

watch zack khan vidoes on nutrex underground site! he trains to failure


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Well, as I said in the first post I'm sure a few will pop up that don't

Not that I think training to failure is the only way of training.

Its more of an observation that most lads try and go for the last one or two reps with a spotter, where as I hardly ever see a pro do it. Certainly some of the videos Ive seen, I was never saying that there is NO pro that trains to failure.


----------



## stoatman (Sep 13, 2012)

Interesting . I'm pretty bad at going to failure on the last set of every exercise I do in every workout. Is that bad ?


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

stoatman said:


> Interesting . I'm pretty bad at going to failure on the last set of every exercise I do in every workout. Is that bad ?


Well the majority of my gym time I end up doing what you do aswell. Not on everything but I'd say 75/80% of the time


----------



## stoatman (Sep 13, 2012)

Im not very good at stopping short when I know I have some left in the tank. All or nothing lol


----------



## LeviathanBodyBuilding (Jan 9, 2012)

dorians blood and guts vids you mentioned earlier, i think are quite reserved, as he is training that welsh guy and his bb.com mate, i dont think he could train him as hard as he would have as he isnt in tune with the two guys bodies and wouldn't want to push them too hard, more so give them a feel of what a HIT workout consists of and theories etc without going 100%. wouldn't look very good for him if the were to end up with an injury from it

but as pointed out pros will train differently when approaching a contest as being in cal deficit will make them more susceptible to injury if they were to carry on training with the amount of intensity they use to build the mass

that's ones of the things yates says in interviews about what he could do differently if he was to go back to the start, was that he never knew when to back off and as he carried on training like he did, even up to a comp, is when the injuries occurred, think he tore his bicep 4 weeks out of one of the olympia contest because of this

if you want to see a pro 'screaming and pushing for those last reps as you put it, then you should watch dorians original blood and guts workout video...was filmed that long a go it was actually on vhs when it was released, although since then a special two disk dvd with it and extras has been released. one of my fav training vids that i come back to, blows the likes of heath and cutler out of the water when it comes to training intensity.

just him, his training partner leroy davis, and minimal camera crew in temple gym,

also, a point to make is, if you workout by yourself, there is no way you could come close to this type of intensity, you need the spotter, and someone who is intune with this sort of training to know how you want to be spotted who can take you beyond failure, with forced reps and negatives, static holds etc

you can get the vids on you youtube, they are the ones in black and white, even watching them you can feel the intensity and see how he got to the size he did

here one for the first 2 exercises his does for the back workout, how many times do you see most of the pros train like this...closest iv seen is coleman, like someone mentioned earlier, but hes just something else!






i recommend you watching the whole thing


----------



## RockyD (Oct 8, 2012)

Just shows like with most areas of weight training, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and what works best for one will not for another.

People trying to tell you unequivocally that "this" way is the best , in just about every aspect of training, are generally talking BS.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

alan_wilson said:


> Who said that?
> 
> I just asked why I never see a pro train to failure
> 
> Not about every pro


It's your thread title that insinuates every pro should , sounds like your shocked that pros don't train to failure .

Besides how many pros have you seen train in real life ?


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

I really dont think you see half of what really goes on on there videos TBH.

I agree with Ming as well, would loe to see how they trained to get huge rather than maintaining.


----------



## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

I've never seen a pro train except in videos, but even in those they sometimes train all out.

I have seen a lot of amateurs that have competed and won in Scottish, British and entered Universe events and some of them train all out to failure and some go for higher reps and not failure, different people grow on different routines.

Just depends what types of muscle fibre you have more of IMO.


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

ewen said:


> It's your thread title that insinuates every pro should , sounds like your shocked that pros don't train to failure .
> 
> Besides how many pros have you seen train in real life ?


But if you read the first post, I'm pretty clear that Im not shocked at it, I'm curious to why so many gym members train to failure, and why the videos of pros I've personally seen they don't.

That's it, I've not labelled all, nor do I think all, its just the ones Ive seen via the videos I watch as an observation.

And I've not stated every pro SHOULD train to failure either

I've only asked why they don't


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Dezw said:


> I've never seen a pro train except in videos, but even in those they sometimes train all out.
> 
> I have seen a lot of amateurs that have competed and won in Scottish, British and entered Universe events and some of them train all out to failure and some go for higher reps and not failure, different people grow on different routines.
> 
> Just depends what types of muscle fibre you have more of IMO.


Again, its an observation to the videos I've seen

I've not once said ALL bodybuilders don't, or there wrong if they don't

I wonder why some don't seem to.


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Milky said:


> I really dont think you see half of what really goes on on there videos TBH.
> 
> I agree with Ming as well, would loe to see how they trained to get huge rather than maintaining.


Agreed, I think a lot of them are edited

Suppose they may not want to be seen struggling on a rep/weight that another competitor may be able to move


----------



## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

Like what @Rav212 says, watch some of Zack Kahn's vids he goes to failure alot.

@danMUNDY can you try linking the vid again plz bud it doesn't seem to work


----------



## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Genetics.


----------



## LeviathanBodyBuilding (Jan 9, 2012)

need2bodybuild said:


> Like what @http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member.php?u=56630" target="_blank">Rav212</a> says, watch some of Zack Kahn's vids he goes to failure alot.
> 
> @http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member.php?u=64773" target="_blank">danMUNDY</a> can you try linking the vid again plz bud it doesn't seem to work







fixed!

also, here is a vid of yates training khan before he turned pro, im guessing this may have influenced his training to failure along the way


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

I know some like to train to "positive failure" which is the point before you have to start grinding the reps out..


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Iv only used a spotter once in my life. I train to the last rep that I can complete. That's it.


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

MutantX said:


> I know some like to train to "positive failure" which is the point before you have to start grinding the reps out..


That what seems to be the choice for the majority of pro's I've watched.

But I suppose a lot of the time we don't get the whole picture.

The vids above are great


----------



## live2liftt (Aug 2, 2011)

My favourite Dorian vid


----------



## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

Was chatting to a lady in my gym who competes, and she came third in the British finals in Manchester last year.

She said trying to force them last reps is like stamping on a walnut, she says, once it broken and smashed up, there's no point smashing it anymore. Your achieving nothing.


----------

