# Muscle Loss on Keto



## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

For the last couple of weeks I've been following a keto diet.

I have been very pleased with the results, with now visable abs and rips showing up all over the place.

However, I didn't anticipate how much muscle loss would occur. This has been very disappointing. If I carry on, I will just look thin, and I haven't spent the best part of two years working out to look thin!

This is the diet I've been using:

I weigh 154 pounds, and maintenance kcal is 2310.

Meal 1 - Protein Shake after 30mins cardio (25g Protein)

Meal 2 - Bacon Omelette (32g Protein, 17g Fat)

Meal 3 - Tuna Salad, 4 Brazil Nuts, Olive Oil (14g Protein 20g fat)

Meal 4 - PWO Shake (50g Protein)

Meal 5 - Chicken Salad, 6 Brazil Nuts, Olive Oil (25g Protein 25g Fat)

Meal 6 - 2 Whole Eggs, Boiled (12g Protein 10g Fat)

Meal 7 - Protein Shake, 6 Brazil Nuts (25g Protein 15g Fat)

Total Protein - 148g (592kcal) Total Fat - 118g (1062kcal)

Total Calories - 1654

I do weight training 4 times per week and 30mins cardio daily before my first meal.

So now I'm thinking where do I go from here? I can't carry on with this.

My question is about clenbuterol. Would it be an idea to take this? Maybe along with dropping the AM cardio?

Or should I add carbs for breakfast, post workout, and post post workout? With clen?

Would taking clen and adding carbs balance things out in terms of allowing me to grow slightly (at least to where I was before) whilst still retaining the lean look? Or at least as lean as possible. If there is some sense to this then how many grams of carbs could I add per day, whilst using clen to still look lean?

I've been training for a couple of years, successfully bulked up quite nicely and this was my first experience with keto. I think I'm at a stage where I would consider steroids if they were necessary to help me achieve what I've outlined above. So if someone could recommend a cycle that would allow me to grow somewhat, or at least retain muscle whilst still looking lean with minimal water retention then please make a suggestion and I will research from there.

Cheers.


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## YoungGun (Mar 30, 2008)

The keto works well until a certain point, then you start loosing muscle.

Maybe look into carb cycling mate.


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

Well I was 'carbing up' once a week. Basically eating anything I wanted on a Sunday, mostly carbs.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

How tall are you mate? Not being funny but it sounds like you could do with putting some mass on before trying to cut? The extra muscle would help you burn fat better as it sits there all day consuming energy and so your metabolism is just that much higher.

It is scary how much fat most of us carry (me more than most!) so it may be that you're not carrying as much lean body mass as you thought and you're not actually losing muscle, just stripping off more and more fat (which is great!).

If you're set on getting ripped then I'd up the calories to 2000 (add more protein), maybe even more - and see what happens then (keep the cardio) - better to go gradual and keep the mass you have.

Good luck


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

Yeah, I definately did start cutting way too soon, just wanted to do it for the summer really.

Any thoughts on clenbuterol and how it may help?


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

I'm 5'9.


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## infrared (Jun 30, 2009)

You dont know how to diet properly. You are most likely gorging on junk for your carbups and dont actually carb up right.

The diet is too low in protein and too low in calories.

Why are you surprised you lost tissue when you have nothing there to support it? Your deficit and whole plan is cockeyed.


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

I wasn't eating junk food on my day off, I was eating rice, veg, and bread.

I also thought protein was a bit low but I followed the keto diet very carefully from this link:

http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/nutrition/2156-cdk-cyclical.html

I think defdaz was right about me actually losing fat around my muscles which made me think I was losing muscle, as my strength is still the same.

So I'd like now to start adding some carbs, for breakfast, and post workout. If I do this to help start growing again, would taking clenbuterol help me remain lean?


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## infrared (Jun 30, 2009)

Cardio will help you keep lean.


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

Thanks, at the moment I do 30mins cardio before breakfast (as advised from the keto diet) and I also do 30mins after weights. Should I drop the cardio before breakfast when trying to gain some size because I imagine it's quite catabolic.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

There's no reason why you should be losing muscle on a properly implemented CKD. You are doing something wrong.


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## infrared (Jun 30, 2009)

Peter V said:


> Thanks, at the moment I do 30mins cardio before breakfast (as advised from the keto diet) and I also do 30mins after weights. Should I drop the cardio before breakfast when trying to gain some size because I imagine it's quite catabolic.


Carbs around training and at breakfast. Mix of high intensity and low intensity cardio tends to work for a lot of people.

Just up your food. Introduce slow starchy carbs , eat some fruit and pile your plate high with veggies. Monitor progress, do some cardio. Tweak it one step at a time until you find a groove.


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

Yes, it turns out after reading defdaz's post that I'm probably not losing muscle, just fat, making my muscles look smaller. However I don't want to get any smaller, so I want to get a bit of size back and remain as lean as possible. With this being my goal, should I get rid of the am cardio which is probably catabolic? And would clenbuterol help when I start adding carbs to allow me to regain a bit of size and stay lean?


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## infrared (Jun 30, 2009)

You do not need drugs.


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

OK, well how about the morning cardio? Should I lose it when trying to get some size back?


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## infrared (Jun 30, 2009)

How can i know, you have not told me anything about your plan.

What car do you recommend i get?


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

My plan is to add some carbs to breakfast, and around workouts. This is to get some size back after losing too much on keto.

I know cardio is important to stay lean, but bearing in mind I'm trying to get size back, should I keep the cardio after weights and stop doing it before breakfast, when I'm more likely to be in a catabolic state?


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## infrared (Jun 30, 2009)

If you are in a surplus then the catabolic state will not even exist. Stop being paranoid.

As i stated earlier, monitor and adjust until you find a groove. This is not hard yet you are making it into a rather complex issue unnecessarily.

Eat, train, rest. If something isnt working, then tweak it.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Fcuk's sake - reality check time. If you lost muscle then you were doing something very wrong - keto diets are not catabolic if done correctly.

Secondly, you're 150lbs, so unless you're 5 feet tall you probs shouldn't be cutting anyway.

You want to gain size back? Then start a mass gaining diet. Eat in a calorie surplus with adequate calories to train and grow. Cardio 3 times a week max.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

im having alot of sucess doing carb cycling based on a thread i think pscarb posted.

Basically.... i only eat carbs on training days and then have a refeed day on a sunday.

I lift on mon, wed and fri afterwork. On these days i have some carbs - i have 50g dextrose immediately after my workout (followed by a protein shake ten mins later) and then about an hour later i have a balanced meal which will have protein and slow release carbs in it (pasta, rice etc).

On the days i dont lift i do a bit of cardio but eat no/very low carbs.

On sunday i eat like a king but good food only.

Im loosing fat and have gained on my lifts at the same time which if im honest i really wastn expecting.


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## hermie07 (Sep 16, 2008)

a.nother guy could you post up you non training day meal plan and you training day meal plan please?


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## Nitrolen (Jun 7, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> Fcuk's sake - reality check time. If you lost muscle then you were doing something very wrong - keto diets are not catabolic if done correctly.
> 
> Secondly, you're *150lbs*, so unless you're 5 feet tall you probs shouldn't be cutting anyway.
> 
> You want to gain size back? Then start a mass gaining diet. Eat in a calorie surplus with adequate calories to train and grow. Cardio 3 times a week max.


I haven't read all of your thread , but if you are at this weight, why would you want to go on a keto diet?


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## bikka31 (Jun 23, 2009)

How long you been on keto??

you say you carb up for 1 day, im starting carb up for 36 - 48 hours.

Maybe try that.

Also you should have worked out your carbs/fat/protein ratios for your carb up. You shouldnt just be eating carbs only for the 1 day.

You shouldnt be adding carbs to your meals in the week on keto.

im also 5ft 9" mate and im 175lbs.

Its only my first week of keto but im already seeing great

results. The abs are already starting to show. For my height

i look stocky but i can imagine when im ripped i will def look

slimmer, so if you weigh 150lbs and your the same height as me

you must look cut already. Why would you want to get any smaller?

Like has been already said, maybe you wer'nt as big underneath as you first thought.

Although if your defineately losing muscle size ill agree that you are doing something wrong.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

The knack to not loosing muscle on keto is getting the carb up just right so you don't spill over but boost leptin, and insulin temporarily to give you benefits. This may take some trial and error, there isn't a 1 size fits all i'm affraid. It can vary from some individuals being able to eat total junk for 48 hours to others only managing to get away with a clean 12 hour carb up. After a while you can pretty much feel when you are about to spill over, then just stop carbing right there and then. Wait 4 hours and continue with keto style diet.


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## Peter V (May 27, 2009)

a.notherguy said:


> im having alot of sucess doing carb cycling based on a thread i think pscarb posted.
> 
> Basically.... i only eat carbs on training days and then have a refeed day on a sunday.
> 
> ...


Might try this, so you don't eat any carbs before your workouts? Only after?


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

gyppo12345 said:


> a.nother guy could you post up you non training day meal plan and you training day meal plan please?


I will prob get slaughtered for this as its not the best diet but it working for me.....

a typical training day i will have:

protein shake for breakfast.

tuna and cheese at about 10ish

protein shake and nuts at lunch time

tuna and cheese at 3ish

train after work at 5

PWO - 50g dextrose

ten min later 50g protein shake

1ish hour later i will have tea - meat and sensible amount of carbs - what ever the gf wants me to cook lol

before bed i will have 3 whole scrambeled eggs for supper.

suplement wise - multi vit, glutamine and fish oil caps.

non - training days - the same but no PWO dextrose or shake or carbs with evening meal.

evening meal on non training days will be omlettes, stir fried mushrooms with meat, salad and meat, fry up etc..........

On a sunday i have a refeed day but still try to eat clean.

tbh - its very a boring diet but i find that aslong as i can have a nice evening meal then i am happy to eat whatever works during the day and i look forwards to sundays.


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