# Upper Lower routine - packed? Help out !



## Milos_97 (Oct 11, 2016)

Hey,

I need help regarding my upper/lower routine :/
Every upper lower routine i found wasnt really for me because there werent many excercises for my weakest areas(chest and back).

My statsi m 19 year old btw)

Bench Press 200 lbs x 1
Squat 286 lbs x 1
Deadlift 330 lbs x 1
OHP 132 lbs x 1

For a year(how much i am working out)i gained over 20 lbs  
Anyway,here is the program

Monday

Upper 1

Bench Press 3x5
Incline Bench Press 3x8
Reverse Bent Over Rows 3x8
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown 3x10
Seated Wide Grip Cable Rows 3x10
Side Lateral Dumbell Raises 3x10
Barbell Curl 3x8

Wednesday

Lower 1

Squat 3x5
Deadlift 2x5
Leg Curls 3x15
Leg Extensions 3x15
Standing Calf Raise 3x15
Calf Press 3x15

Friday

Upper 2

OHP 3x5
Pull Ups 3xMax
T.Bar Row 3x8
Close Grip Pulldown 3x10
Cable Flyes 3x12
Facepull 3x12
Dips 3x10

Sunday

Lower 2

Front Squat 3x8
SLDL 3x8
Leg Extension 3x15
Leg Curls 3x15
Standing Calf Raise 3x15
Calf Press 3x15

Tell me your honest opinion,what should i fix and how ...

Cheers !


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Is your priority size or strength? If it's size I'd be tempted to stop testing 1RM, as that's a good way to get injured.

The routine generally looks good but I'd add a decline press to upper 2, as either the first or second exercise. There are the best exercise for chest development IMHO. Form is also very important for chest growth:






Not arching your back when training lats could be a mistake you're making there.

Ultimately you need to be making progress in the gym to grow. If you aren't then rest/recovery can be the issue. Going by your other thread it sounds like you're eating enough food, so think about a less frequent routine like a push/pull/legs split. Or just add one more rest day to your current routine and train every other day (and therefore different days alternate weeks).

Your current approach looks sensible though, and it may of course just be that you're expecting progress to be faster than is realistic naturally.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Is your priority size or strength? If it's size I'd be tempted to stop testing 1RM, as that's a good way to get injured.
> 
> The routine generally looks good but I'd add a decline press to upper 2, as either the first or second exercise. There are the best exercise for chest development IMHO. Form is also very important for chest growth:
> 
> ...


 Would you say decline is better than flat press? I've never used decline as afraid of making chest disproportionate


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Not for me.

Might be good for a couple of weeks, but no way could I put my all into evey set on a on going basis.

If you want to do evey exercise under the sun then a bigger spit would be my option.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> Would you say decline is better than flat press? I've never used decline as afraid of making chest disproportionate


 I would, but that's just me. It's formed the basis of my chest routines for years. It's the most natural path for the pecs to take (opposed to flat and incline).

What do you mean by disproportionate? It wont make the 'upper' weaker/smaller than the 'lower' if that's what you mean.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dan94 said:


> Would you say decline is better than flat press? I've never used decline as afraid of making chest disproportionate


 For me, yes. Declines work the pec more and the front delt less than flat bench pressing. They also work the upper chest as well as the lower chest, but you can mix them with incline presses if this is a concern.

To get an idea why declines are better you can try the following. Hold an arm out in front of you as if at the top of a bench press, and contract your pec. Place your other hand on it so you can feel the contraction, and then bring your arm down about 30 degrees to the position it would be for a decline press. You'll feel that your pec contracts more fully.

If it helps convince you to try them, Dorian Yates was a big fan of declines, and talks about why briefly in the following video:


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> For me, yes. Declines work the pec more and the front delt less than flat bench pressing. They also work the upper chest as well as the lower chest, but you can mix them with incline presses if this is a concern.
> 
> To get an idea why declines are better you can try the following. Hold an arm out in front of you as if at the top of a bench press, and contract your pec. Place your other hand on it so you can feel the contraction, and then bring your arm down about 30 degrees to the position it would be for a decline press. You'll feel that your pec contracts more fully.
> 
> If it helps convince you to try them, Dorian Yates was a big fan of declines, and talks about why briefly in the following video:


 Great post as always. Will throw that into my next push day!

Cheers


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

2004mark said:


> I would, but that's just me. It's formed the basis of my chest routines for years. It's the most natural path for the pecs to take (opposed to flat and incline).
> 
> What do you mean by disproportionate? It wont make the 'upper' weaker/smaller than the 'lower' if that's what you mean.


 Thanks Mark. I just mean in terms of it targeting lower chest more (supposedly?) meaning that growth may look weird


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

@Ultrasonic @2004mark

What'd you make of this? I know usually T-Nation is pretty reliable

https://www.t-nation.com/training/ditch-the-barbell-bench-press


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dan94 said:


> @Ultrasonic @2004mark
> 
> What'd you make of this? I know usually T-Nation is pretty reliable
> 
> https://www.t-nation.com/training/ditch-the-barbell-bench-press


 I skimmed the article but wouldn't agree with much of it.

I do decline dumbbell rather than barbell presses, but I don't agree that decline barbell presses are useless from a size point of view. I also have concerns over chest dips from an injury point of view, based on advice I've seen posted here and elsewhere (although I have done them go the past.)


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> I skimmed the article but wouldn't agree with much of it.
> 
> I do decline dumbbell rather than barbell presses, but I don't agree that decline barbell presses are useless from a size point of view. I also have concerns over chest dips from an injury point of view, based on advice I've seen posted here and elsewhere (although I have done then go the past.)


 I too find dips risky for injury. Always stresses my shoulders a lot.

I'll give decline DB press a try next time. Will look at some videos to brush up on the form


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> @Ultrasonic @2004mark
> 
> What'd you make of this? I know usually T-Nation is pretty reliable
> 
> https://www.t-nation.com/training/ditch-the-barbell-bench-press


 Meh. I've spent prolonged periods using only dumbells and barbells (simply because that's what my routine at the time contained). Can't say I massively prefer either or.

There is more than one way to bench press too... a heavy bench using a proper pl setup will be very different to using a lighter weight and trying to isolate the pecs more (flatter back, flared elbows etc) and slowing everything down. I can get a brilliant squeeze on the pecs when benching by just holding the bar in the extended position for 10 seconds or so before racking it.

One thing I would say is when I have any shoulder issues then dumbells are generally much kinder on the joint.



Dan94 said:


> Thanks Mark. I just mean in terms of it targeting lower chest more (supposedly?) meaning that growth may look weird


 Nope... works the upper just fine. I'd say over 80% of my bench/dumbell pressing is decline. Not saying flat or incline don't work though, I just like the feel of decline. Feels much more powerful to me.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

My routine.

Monday upper

1 decline bb bench press

2 incline bb bench press

3 flat seated press

Back.

1 wide grip pronate weighted pull ups chins.

2 db one arm rows

Shoulders

1 db seated shoulder press.

2 shrugs

3 upright rows.

Tues Lower

Squats

Leg extensions

Ham curls

Calf raises.

Abs decline sit up crunch.

Arms

Tri cable extensions

Over head tri cable extensions

Bicep db concentrations.

2X per week working in the 3 sets of 8 - 10 rep range. Continous progressive overload.

Lift big, get big ....


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> For me, yes. Declines work the pec more and the front delt less than flat bench pressing. They also work the upper chest as well as the lower chest, but you can mix them with incline presses if this is a concern.
> 
> To get an idea why declines are better you can try the following. Hold an arm out in front of you as if at the top of a bench press, and contract your pec. Place your other hand on it so you can feel the contraction, and then bring your arm down about 30 degrees to the position it would be for a decline press. You'll feel that your pec contracts more fully.
> 
> If it helps convince you to try them, Dorian Yates was a big fan of declines, and talks about why briefly in the following video:


 Have just watched that video found it brilliant

so thats literally all u need to do for a chest/bi's workout? I think im probably doing way too many sets if this is the ideal way to get big by doing 1 working set only


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

To be clear I only linked to that video for the comments about decline pressing, not to recommend the workout.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> To be clear I only linked to that video for the comments about decline pressing, not to recommend the workout.


 Yeah understood, I just wondered if literally doing 1 or 2 warm up sets followed by 1 working set of 6-8 is actually enough for a workout? hes only doing say 2-3 exercises per body part just seemed minimal? but he's huge so who I am to judge!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Yeah understood, I just wondered if literally doing 1 or 2 warm up sets followed by 1 working set of 6-8 is actually enough for a workout? hes only doing say 2-3 exercises per body part just seemed minimal? but he's huge so who I am to judge!


 Dorian Yates is one of the most successful bodybuilders of all time, Google him if you don't know who he is! (He wasn't natty of course.)

Most here would do more sets though. There is no definite optimal thing to do, and many more variables than just number of sets, but this may be of interest:

http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-many-sets-do-you-need-to-perform-to-maximize-muscle-gains/


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

2-3 exercises per body part is plenty though. I often do one.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Dorian Yates is one of the most successful bodybuilders of all time, Google him if you don't know who he is! (He wasn't natty of course.)
> 
> Most here would do more sets though. There is no definite optimal thing to do, and many more variables than just number of sets, but this may be of interest:
> 
> http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/how-many-sets-do-you-need-to-perform-to-maximize-muscle-gains/


 thanks - so its saying 10 sets per muscle group is a good target. and that could just be 5 sets of bench press and 5 sets of decline bench, done?!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> thanks - so its saying 10 sets per muscle group is a good target. and that could just be 5 sets of bench press and 5 sets of decline bench, done?!


 Yes. Although I suspect most of the studies would probably have the sets split across at least two workouts - I think there is some info on this in the paper if you read it.

Again let me stress there are a lot more things to consider than just sets.


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