# PPL or UL routine, advice



## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Hello, i am new member of forum. First, i am sorry for my bad english. 

I have been all time on bro split (3y of training) and now i would like to change things.

I would like to increase frequency and to bring more *legs *and *chest*.

So, I would start with 4 day split.

Two options is on my mind. Here is the plan

*1. Upper/Lower*

Upper Lower off Upper Lower off off

This is best split for 4 day i know but i am worried about volume. Two days for legs it's ok (one day focus on quads, and the other on hams), but on upper days i am not sure that i can stimulate all muscles to grow. Maybe if i stayed in gym 2h.

*2. PPL*

Push (quads+chest) Pull off Legs Push off off

On first Push day i will hit legs only with 1 exercise (squats 5x6-8) and chest with 8 sets total.

On single leg day i will do quads and hamstrings. And for regular Push day it will be a regular push day.

With this variations of PPL i think i will have enough volume.

But, what do you think about this?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Consider combining both.

I was hesitant and didn't want to follow so, but I'm currently following upper, legs, pull, push, legs.

I find this is allowing me to produce more effort into my sets. focus solely more on less muscle groups a time, achieving a great deal of overall weekly volume and obviously getting the frequency in

With U/L you do have to keep things simple imo. I could no longer progress something like a row or weighted chin after some benching+ohp, that would now have to be the first exercise I perform, when I have most my energy, if I intend to get stronger on that lift.

Depends on your mass, relative strength level and if or assisted. these will play a big part in determining suitability of training style imo. I really didn't want to follow this split as the commitment of 5 days just isn't appealing, but I'm enjoying my workouts more.

I would not run PPL as it is personally, at either 1x or 2x frequency.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

PPL is what I always recommend.

Push pull off legs off 3 sessions every 5 days.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Thank you guys, really good advice.

I considered combining both routine but now I can only train for 4 days.

Later I'll be able to do 5 day split and then it will be ok.

But now, how can I create PPL with 4 days?

And to increase frequency 2x for chest and legs, do you have ideas?

My current weight is 80kg.

I don't think that i am strong person.

Example:

Squat 90kg x 10 x 4sets

Incline barbell bench 80kg x 8 x 4sets

OHP 60kg x 8 x 4sets

I could post some pictures if you want.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Goran said:


> But now, how can I create PPL with 4 days?
> 
> And to increase frequency 2x for chest and legs, do you have ideas?


 Yeah, just run U/L if only 4 days.

Your lifts aren't so taxing for your bodyweight, that you could progress the big compounds on that split. lots of room to grow on upper lower and progress lifts.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

I have a few questions



Can I expect go gain some size, not just strenght, with UL?


Is it ok to focus on chest with 7 sets in one session, 14 per week?


Sessions A and B to be equal with same rep ranges, intensity?


And thank you


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Goran said:


> I have a few questions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Sure

Pick exercises that are best bang for buck, perform quality volume, making every set count, strive for progressive overload. You will grow in both strength & size.

I find anywhere from 12 - 18 total worksets the sweet spot for me personally on U/L


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Pancake' said:


> I find anywhere from 12 - 18 total worksets the sweet spot for me personally on U/L


 Is this too much volume?

Chest 7 sets

Back 6 sets

Shoulders 6 sets

triceps 4 sets

And maybe biceps 4 sets on leg days after leg workout?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Goran said:


> Is this too much volume?
> 
> Chest 7 sets
> 
> ...


 That is for you to experiment with and find out. everyone has a different threshold.

I think it's important with a U/L you choose the most efficient exercises and one's that crossover and target same muscle groups.

An example:

Bench Press - 3 sets

CGBP - 1 set

Military Press - 3 sets

Weighted Chin Ups - 3 sets

That is 10 sets, but with 10 sets of those 4 exercises. you have worked all major upper body muscle groups.

A military press will target trapz+upper chest, as well as being a shoulder dominant exercise.

a chin up will target biceps, large muscle groups of the back, as well as triceps and upper chest.

Performing lifts that target similar muscle groups is a good way of avoiding junk volume.

Now if you add the below 3 to the above.

Barbell Rows - 3 sets

Dips - 2 sets

Dumbbell Pullovers - 3 sets

You now have a Upper day split, which recruits everything and with by far enough volume.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

I understand.

One more thing.

Do I have to strive for progressive overload on both training days, for example upper A and upper B in the same week?

And, what you think about Power Hypertrophy Upper Lower program? Or just to stick with regular?


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Ok, here is my U/L routine. Please tell me what you think? Chest and legs is on focus.

*UPPER 1*
BB incline press 4x6
DB flat bench 3x8
BB overhead press 4x8
BB row 4x8
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown 2x10
Skullcrusher 4x10
DB Lateral Raise 2x12

*LOWER 1*
Squat 4x6
Deadlift 4x6
Front squat 4x10
Barbell Lunge (short) 3x10
BB Curl 3x10
ABS

*UPPER 2*
BB incline press 4x6
DB flat bench 3x8
BB overhead press 4x8
BB row 4x8
DB one arm row 2x10
Skullcrusher 4x10
BB Upright row 2x10

*LOWER 2*
Sumo squat 4x8
Romanian DL 4x8
Barbell Lunge (long step) 4x10
Leg curl 3x10
BB Scott 3x10
ABS

My biggest concern is do I have enough volume?

I'm little suspicious because i was on bro split.

And this is my current condition.

View attachment 163697


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Regarding volume, your best initial guide is how do the total sets per week per body part compare to what you did on you bro split?

If you want to make it more obviously chest focused I'd drop or reduce sets of overhead press, and do more chest pressing or possibly something like a cable crossover.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

For chest on bro split i worked 4 incline press, 4 bench press, dips 3 and fly 3, thats 14 total sets in week in one workout.

Now, for UL, is this plan ok, same number of sets on both trainings?

And, do i have to strive for progressive overload every training?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Goran said:


> For chest on bro split i worked 4 incline press, 4 bench press, dips 3 and fly 3, thats 14 total sets in week in one workout.
> 
> Now, for UL, is this plan ok, same number of sets on both trainings?


 I make that 15 sets not 14 but yes, starting with the same total weekly sets on your new routine is sensible. Bear in mind that if you liked that range of exercises you could still do that on an upper/lower split, doing different combinations on each of your two upper workouts.



> And, do i have to strive for progressive overload every training?


 Yes. Push yourself with your training just as you have in the past.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

I'am sorry, one more question.

What do you think about Power Hypertrophy Upper Lower?

Thank you


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Goran said:


> I'am sorry, one more question.
> 
> What do you think about Power Hypertrophy Upper Lower?
> 
> Thank you


 I don't think anything, any exercise you perform in a routine, progress and get stronger on overtime and you'll gain muscle doing so


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

Goran said:


> I'am sorry, one more question.
> 
> What do you think about Power Hypertrophy Upper Lower?
> 
> Thank you


 I'm finishing Meadows Creeping Death 2 and planning an U/L split in this way:

*Lower Quads Focus*

Squat 4x6

Leg Press 3x8

Leg Extension 3x12

Seated Leg Curl 3x12

Seated Claf Press 4x12

Lateral Raise 3x12

*Upper Chest Focus*

Incline Bench Press 4x6

Lat Pulldown 3x10

Dumbbell Bench Press 4x8

Pulley 3x10

Rear Delt Raise 3x12

Triceps Pushdown 3x12

Hammer Curl 4x8

*Lower Hamstrings Focus*

Deadlift 4x6

RDL 4x8

Standing Leg Curl 3x10

Front Squat 3x12

Standing Calf Press 4x12

Lateral Raise 3x12

*Upper Back Focus*

Chin Up 4x6

Incline Dumbbell Press 4x10

Barbell Row 4x8

Smith Machine Overhead Press 4x8

Rear Delt Raise 3x12

Barbell Curl 3x12

Close Grip Bench Press 4x8


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

u2pride said:


> I'm finishing Meadows Creeping Death 2 and planning an U/L split in this way:
> 
> *Lower Quads Focus*
> 
> ...


 Is this lateral raise shoulder exercise on leg days?

Should I do pyramid sets or straight sets? I think that is pyramid is safer, i am not sure...


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

Goran said:


> Is this lateral raise shoulder exercise on leg days?
> 
> Should I do pyramid sets or straight sets? I think that is pyramid is safer, i am not sure...


 Hi Goran,

yes I'll do shoulder lateral raise to up the volume.

I'll do straight sets, but it is personal choice (it is easier for me to self-regulate and estimate week total volume).


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Clear enough.

And how long does it take to finish this training?

Thank you


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

Goran said:


> Clear enough.
> 
> And how long does it take to finish this training?
> 
> Thank you


 It dipends (rest, TUT, ecc...), but I think I'm going to finish in max 50 minutes.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Pancake' said:


> Consider combining both.
> 
> I was hesitant and didn't want to follow so, but I'm currently following upper, legs, pull, push, legs.
> 
> ...


 This is a solid advice OP.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Thank you guys.


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

AestheticManlet said:


> PPL is what I always recommend.
> 
> Push pull off legs off 3 sessions every 5 days.


 Agreed. But my legs always lag behind.

I changed it this morning to Pull, Legs, Push, Legs, off. Repeat. Lets see if the volume does or doesn't have me horizontal in the afternoons.

And no, I can't up the intensity of my 5x10.


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

It's been 2 months since I was started U/L 4 day split.

Now, I'm thinking to switch to 4 day split and focus on quads and chest 2x per week. Other muscles only 1 time per week.

So, what do you think about these:

Push
Legs
-
Pull
Quads+chest (this will be lighter workout, 10 - 15 reps)
- 
-

Total volume for chest will be 18 sets per week, for quads 15 and hams 7.

Or something different?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Man the volume in here...

I f**k legs up in 6-8 work sets

Same for all other sessions...

Upper Lower is good, imo it just needs to be lower volume or you'll find it hard to recover...

I usually say it's frequency or volume not both...

Hitting your entire body in 2 days then 1 day off is gonna take it's toll imo... for me volume would be lower on this split or I'd never recover...


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## Goran (Sep 11, 2018)

Yes, volume is up for UL, takes me about 1.5 h to finish my workout.

And for upper i do chest for 8 sets, back 7, shoulders 6, triceps 4.

Biceps i'l do in lower days.

Now, after 9 weeks i feel that i need deload. I'm struggle with lifts, need more time to recover.

Now, after deload, if i continue with this UL split and reduce volume i dont know is it ok to shrink volume? I mean, my muscles is use to this and now i'll cut volume?

What do you think about PPL + quads/chest, like i describe in previous post?


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