# Not happy with the way I look so I'm turning to the experienced for help



## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Hi guys and gals I'm matt, I'm 30 currently and weigh around 12 stone at just shy of 6ft tall so as you can imagine I'm slim.

i used to be in the army and due to constant training I was always very slim but now I'm out and a lot less active I'm looking to bulk up.

I have around 85kg of free weight in my garage I've been using for around 3 weeks and have been trying to eat right etc but I'm still 12 stone lol

so I'm currently eating 2 boiled egg whites, oats and low fat yoghurt along with a banana for Breckie

then a tin of tuna and a blob of Mayo as a snack and some Titan whey protein

then for lunch two chicken thighs with say pasta or rice and a spicy sauce say tobasco or alike

then in the afternoon a couple peanut butter sandwiches and a Cadbury peanut style bar and some fruit

then dinner a spag Bol or something with a meat protein and another protein shake

i have seen a slight increase in my bicep and shoulder/trap area but nothing to get exited about so any help please point me in the right direction

i only get around 7 hours sleep due to work commitments so workout time is only around an hour 3-4 times a week at the mo.

workout is not heavy as just started out but at my safe maximum for the activities.

any workout plans or obviouse mistakes please point then out for me as I want to see an improvement for the end of sept as this is my first goal (holiday in the sun lol)

any calf help help would be great as my lower legs are quite skinny although been doing calf raises with about 30 kg in each hand but have seen no change or am I expecting this all to quick?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Just and eat and eat mate use common sense avoid sugars.

Once you have got in the routine of say three main meals and three snacks start to research nutrition in the appropriate sub forums on here.

Take it easy and understand it's a marathon not a race.

Enjoy your newbie gains though! 

My advice is don't overload yourself and change to many things build yourself in to it. It's very easy to make it to hard for yourself.


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Thanks very much for the advice. Any workout plans for us newbies on here?

Should I join a gym or stick with the free weights for now?


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## George-Bean (Sep 8, 2010)

Welcome and good luck mate. You'll find everything you need here.

The one thing to remember is it takes time, how much time will be governed by how much knowledge you get from here.


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## JamieSL (Feb 6, 2014)

This


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## JamieSL (Feb 6, 2014)

Matt2512 said:


> Thanks very much for the advice. Any workout plans for us newbies on here?
> 
> Should I join a gym or stick with the free weights for now?


Join a gym see a pt book workouts as most gyms do workout sessions etc also have a look at the pic i put on


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Thanks all

jamie how often do i pop one of them shakes then mate? one a day im guessing?!?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Try and stick to compound exercises if u only have an hour per session...saves time and prob more effective to start with. If u can skip get a rope! Kills my calf's! Just do interval with it and add a compound exercise in between maybe.


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## hometrainer (Apr 9, 2003)

Calf's can be stubborn to get to grow try doing single raises and using a block to stand on but you really do need a fair old bit of weight to get them to grow


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Thanks very much for the info again guys all helpful stuff to know!

As I say I'm not after mental size just a muscular athletic look but as I keep being told u need the size to start with so I'll get stuffing my face and try to keep the belly fat down if poss


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## graham58 (Apr 7, 2013)

as skye 666 has said to grow you really need to be doing heavy compound moves,bench,chins,dead lift and squats.keep the reps down to between 6 to 8,eat good but dont go mad or your belly will grow faster than your muscles.good luck


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Okay so not sure if this will work but I have a few before and 3 weeks after piks so don't expect a lot but let me know if you can see any change but I'm sure at the start of a lonnnnnnng ass road

Ok first pik you can c why I hate being me










And this has been taken now just before posting and you can still see why I hate me lol



















Not too much progress at all but it's very early doors.

Any tips on sups I can take as only taking whey protein at the mo


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## Dan the mann (Apr 16, 2014)

Good luck mate and thank you for your service much respect.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

OP.Forget calf raises, and anything other than basic compounds.You need squats, deads, chins and dips.2/3 times a week few sets of each, with gun to head intensity.Stop worrying about which protein, or how many eggs to eat.just eat well.If you feel you can do more than 2/3 sets of heavy leg work, or deads, you aint doing it hard enough.


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## JamieSL (Feb 6, 2014)

Matt2512 said:


> Thanks all
> 
> jamie how often do i pop one of them shakes then mate? one a day im guessing?!?


Ye one a day but looking at your weight why not bang out 2 lol


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## JamieSL (Feb 6, 2014)

hometrainer said:


> Calf's can be stubborn to get to grow try doing single raises and using a block to stand on but you really do need a fair old bit of weight to get them to grow


One thing i have to say is push bike


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## gymlady (Apr 14, 2014)

Nice, I can see u made progress there  Keep it up. I would suggest you to eat food like chicken /fish and red meat with rice and potatos and olive oil, the more meals like that during the day the better, some veggies too. I would also suggest you to eat more egg whites in the morning and avoid fatty foods. You dont really need whey more than once (after workout), eating your calories is better than drinking them. I would also suggest you to eat your peanut butter in the morning as a sandwich and your egg whites.

Add some almonds in your diet aswell.

Good luck


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

JamieSL said:


> Ye one a day but looking at your weight why not bang out 2 lol


Yes I hear you mate lol. :blush:

ive managed to put on a few pounds in those three weeks but its slow progress so hopefully those compound exercises will help to start off

I just don't want a fat stomach but I'll try to cram down more more and more.

thanks for all the encouragement it really helps us little guys!


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Alright buddy I'm ex-army as well clocked the tobasco sauce mention straight away haha good old rat packs. When I left I was in a very similar position to you, slim and wanted to bulk up. Since I left 2 years ago I've changed massively in body shape, admittedly I have more fat but also a lot more muscle, strength and power.

Anyhow as most have said above hit the compound exercises and eat eat eat. Look at the 5x5 stronglifts routine, can't go wrong with that for your first few month.


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## nath_pye (Oct 27, 2013)

Im around the same size a build, currently using the bodybuilding.com app bodyspace its full of workouts that you can track, so at least you have a plan and workout guide


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Bataz said:


> Alright buddy I'm ex-army as well clocked the tobasco sauce mention straight away haha good old rat packs. When I left I was in a very similar position to you, slim and wanted to bulk up. Since I left 2 years ago I've changed massively in body shape, admittedly I have more fat but also a lot more muscle, strength and power.
> 
> Anyhow as most have said above hit the compound exercises and eat eat eat. Look at the 5x5 stronglifts routine, can't go wrong with that for your first few month.


Just checked the 5x5 workouts and it looks a very good one to try.

My only concern is will I see the same muscle growth as I would with isolation or do I build strength and size first then isolate?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Stronglifts is a good programme to start and give you a good base to push on from. However it's not uncommon for advanced lifters to go back to this routine if they hit a plateau or feel like they need to re jig things. It's a good basic programme that should ass muscle mass everywhere.

Google "starting strength" by Mark Ripptoe and buy the book.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Don't worry about individual muscle groups. Focus on gaining poundage in the main compounds (squat, bench, dead) and you will build a muscular and strong body quite quickly - and every muscle will grow in good proportion.

Don't overdo the calories either or you will get fat and not look good. Your body can only gain muscle so fast. Eat high protein and moderate overall calories. 'Bulking shakes' are not what you need at this stage - avoid.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

JamieSL said:


> Join a gym see a pt book workouts as most gyms do workout sessions etc also have a look at the pic i put on


Most gym pt's will have him doing crunches and bicep curls for mass. Most are ****ing useless lol.


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

SK50 said:


> Don't worry about individual muscle groups. Focus on gaining poundage in the main compounds (squat, bench, dead) and you will build a muscular and strong body quite quickly - and every muscle will grow in good proportion.
> 
> Don't overdo the calories either or you will get fat and not look good. Your body can only gain muscle so fast. Eat high protein and moderate overall calories. 'Bulking shakes' are not what you need at this stage - avoid.


Awesome info as all above.

Will give this 5x5 a pop starting Wednesday and see how I get on as they are all exercises I can do in my garage as a gym is not an option at the mo as just put my house on the market and heading for sunny Southampton.

I'm not on bulk building shakes just a basic protein at the mo.


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## GaryMatt (Feb 28, 2014)

Sambuca said:


> Just and eat and eat mate use common sense avoid sugars.
> 
> Once you have got in the routine of say three main meals and three snacks start to research nutrition in the appropriate sub forums on here.
> 
> ...


^^^This^^^

Eat - LIFT - Learn = Beast


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Okay so I've been cracking on with the 5x5 for a few weeks now with added muscle groups on the end as I was before limiting my workouts to around 1hr 30. I'm eating and eating and I've gained a whole 3 flipping pounds lol WTF

my belly is getting bigger but that's it by the looks of it although I'm hardly doing any abs to be honest

Update pik


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## johnlondon82 (Jan 14, 2014)

Gonna put my snout in here.

As a person who was exactly in your position, I'd highly recommend adopting intermittent fasting along with the starting strength program. Going off your body I'd say you need the same kind of Macro's that I started out on. These were:

Training days:

carbs - 260g

protein - 140g

fat - 40g

Rest days

Carbs - 50g

Protein - 150g

Fat - 70g

Training:

Bench - 5x5

Squat - 5x5

Deadlift - 5x5

Don't fanny around with any supplements other than BCAA's for pre-workout if working out fasted, then a whey shake approximately 30 minutes after working out. Don't worry about 'anabolic windows' as that's arguably been debunked (I'm no expert but I seem to be living proof that strength and mass can be built while burning fat without having to worry about 6 meals a day etc). I'd also recommend a multi-vitamin and some fish oil supplements.

On training days I ate roughly 30% of my macros at 12 lunch time and the other 70% an hour or two after working out.

On rest days I ate at 12 lunch time and then between 5-8pm.

I lost a great deal of bodyfat and maintained my strength for 4 months with the above, I've recently upped my macro's a bit to step up the strength and growth. Hunger can be an issue at first but it subsides within a week or two, feeling too full is often a complaint as the two meals equate to quite large portions. Stick with rice/sweet potatos for your carbs and chicken/turkey for your training day protein. Red meat/fish for your rest days. Try and get two pieces of fruit a day for the micro nutrients and fibre. I have to have regular blood tests due to a condition I have (Hypothyroidism) and everything's come back normal every time minus a Liver profile, which just so happens to be related to heavy weight training so it's all normal, healthy and works a treat. Good luck buddy, hope you get where you wanna be, it takes a good while to build muscle as has been mentioned, so play the long game and reap the benefits.

Hope this helps!


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Dont see how you could be disappointed with those results. You obviously have ridiculous expectations of natty training

Edit - just looked at the first post. That's 3 weeks progress? Thats HUGE progress for 3 weeks. is this a troll job?


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## johnlondon82 (Jan 14, 2014)

Sway12 said:


> Dont see how you could be disappointed with those results. You obviously have ridiculous expectations of natty training
> 
> Edit - just looked at the first post. That's 3 weeks progress? Thats HUGE progress for 3 weeks. is this a troll job?


3 weeks on what could potentially be a low carb diet will see substantial initial changes in body composition. Don't forget that a gram of carbs soaks up around 4g of water, mix in a depleted salt content nd you can shave inches in no time, it's keeping up a healthy balance that's key. I put nearly 6kg back in on two weeks on a diet break, 4kg of that fell off in no time once I got back onto I.F and training.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

No but he looks dramatically larger IMO. First pic malnourished, second pic normal. Within 3 weeks? More progress than I've made within months unless my eyes deceive me


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## johnlondon82 (Jan 14, 2014)

Sway12 said:


> No but he looks dramatically larger IMO. First pic malnourished, second pic normal. Within 3 weeks? More progress than I've made within months unless my eyes deceive me


Oh sorry! I misunderstood 

I wouldn't say there's any gains there at all, lighting and differing camera angle play a part in these things. It's akin to comparing someone who's ripped with and without a tan, the latter makes a substantial difference to appearance.


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## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

Got an ok base to start from bud to be honest. Keep at it and the gains will come!


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Sway12 said:


> No but he looks dramatically larger IMO. First pic malnourished, second pic normal. Within 3 weeks? More progress than I've made within months unless my eyes deceive me


Well i am certainly no troll!

I will admit that the first pik shocked me on how bad i actualy looked so the bright light may of had an effect but the other two were taken at similar times of the evening and the last after a shoulder and chest workout.

familly have said my shoulders seem broader and thicker but thats the only comment ive had.

if i can keep going on this path of 3-4 workouts a week until my next goal of september ill be very happy and hopefully some obviouse results will be evident


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## JamieSL (Feb 6, 2014)

hometrainer said:


> Calf's can be stubborn to get to grow try doing single raises and using a block to stand on but you really do need a fair old bit of weight to get them to grow


Try cycling I've seen good gains in quads and calfs after only 3 months on bicycle


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

Cheers jamie ill give it a bash if i get time between workouts.


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## naturalun (Mar 21, 2014)

I suggest eating considerably more, myfitnesspal (it's an app to track your calories and macros) very good thing to use!

But yeah hit up the nutrition section on here, some knowledgeable members at your disposal. I'd say your sleep time is fine, also 1h a day workout is fine. Do things like supersets/drop sets if you're not sure what they are, look them up. Great way of using high intensity and cramming a lot more into that precious hour. Good luck mate!

EDIT - Also, now you've started training, you'll never be happy with your body! You'll always want to be better , which isn't such a bad thing!


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## Matt2512 (Apr 13, 2014)

naturalun said:


> I suggest eating considerably more, myfitnesspal (it's an app to track your calories and macros) very good thing to use!
> 
> But yeah hit up the nutrition section on here, some knowledgeable members at your disposal. I'd say your sleep time is fine, also 1h a day workout is fine. Do things like supersets/drop sets if you're not sure what they are, look them up. Great way of using high intensity and cramming a lot more into that precious hour. Good luck mate!
> 
> EDIT - Also, now you've started training, you'll never be happy with your body! You'll always want to be better , which isn't such a bad thing!


Yes I gotta admit I do use my fitness pal to monitor my protein and calorie intake.

I am learning tho its a minefield of different information and to be honest I don't feel like I'm having as much success with the 5x5 as I was with my old routine of muscle isolation as I'm finding the 5x5 to easy and I don't get the pump I get from working just arms then legs then chest then shoulders etc.

My food intake is poor on weekends as its kinda my down time and I don't take in the calories I should and I do take in during the week as my work diet is fairly good I think at 2800-3000 calories and about 170grams of protein

It's a long haul so I'll keep plodding on.


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## naturalun (Mar 21, 2014)

Matt2512 said:


> Yes I gotta admit I do use my fitness pal to monitor my protein and calorie intake.
> 
> I am learning tho its a minefield of different information and to be honest I don't feel like I'm having as much success with the 5x5 as I was with my old routine of muscle isolation as I'm finding the 5x5 to easy and I don't get the pump I get from working just arms then legs then chest then shoulders etc.
> 
> ...


Monitor your whole macronutrients (proteins,fats and carbs) well isolations won't do nothing for you tbh if used solely, try a basic 4 day split. Chest/tris , back & bis, legs and shoulders/traps and have 3 rest days a week. But I'd do compounds and isolations, bench press inclines, then throw some isolations in there like flyes. That's just an example but you see what I'm on about, make sure you do your compounds though, your major ones are.. BENCH PRESS - SQUATS - DEADLIFTS - MILITARY/SHOULDER PRESS.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't know why people keep advising natural trainers to 'eat and eat'. Do that and you'll end up fat, ugly, and posting in the cutting forum in 3 months.

1lb of muscle a week is spectacular growth - never aim for more because you simply will not do it.

You only need a few hundred calories over maintenance to grow muscle at maximum rate

You can't force feed your way to muscularity.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

holysocks said:


> I've just had to bump to 2650 cals at 155bs my maintenance is 2237cals think...that look ok I'm 5.8''???
> 
> trying not to get fat on this bulk.


There is always trial, error, and optimisation to be done, but 2650kcal (with a good amount of protein) makes a lot of sense to me for a 155lb man.


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