# Is transgenderism a mental illness?



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

I am of the school that a person is who he/she is and not what they believe themselves to identify with.

I would not consider this a debilitating problem and people are quite welcome to do as they please, it is their body and I am not prejudice or judging anyone, I personally don't care what they do. What I do care about is the fact that people can get a 'gender transformative surgery' on the NSH and demand it as their 'right'. If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?

Discuss.


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## duranman (Aug 12, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> I am of the school that a person is who he/she is and not what they believe themselves to identify with.
> 
> I would not consider this a debilitating problem and people are quite welcome to do as they please, it is their body and I am not prejudice or judging anyone, I personally don't care what they do. What I do care about is the fact that people can get a 'gender transformative surgery' on the NSH and demand it as their 'right'. If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Discuss.


 Don't be so hard on yourself


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I remember whe you were a man or a woman.

here are the options you can now choose from

Agender - Someone who does not identify with any sort of gender identity. This term may also be used by someone who intentionally has no recognizable gender presentation. Some people use similar terms such as "genderless" and "gender neutral".

Androgyne/Androgynous - someone who neither identifies with, nor presents as, a man or woman. Being "androgynous" can refer to having both masculine and feminine qualities. This term has Latin roots: Andro- meaning "man" and -gyne, meaning "woman." Some androgynes may identity as "gender benders", meaning that they are intentionally "bending" (or challenging/transgressing) societal gender roles.

Bigender- someone who identifies as both a man and a woman. A Bigender identity is a combination of these two genders, but not necessarily a 50/50 combination, as these genders are often felt - and expressed - fully. Similar to individuals who identify as gender fluid, bigender people may present as men, as women, or as gender-neutral ways on different days.

Cis- all of these terms capture that a person is not trans or does not have a gender diverse identity or presentation.

Cis Female (see also Cis Woman, Cisgender Female, Cisgender Woman); a female who identifies as a woman/has a feminine gender identity.

Cis Male (see also Cis Man, Cisgender Male, Cisgender Man); a male who identifies as a man/has a masculine gender identity.

Cis Man (see Cis Male)

Cis Woman (see Cis Female)

Cisgender: A person who has the gender identity commonly associated with their biological sex (e.g., someone who is assigned as a female at birth and who lives as a woman).

Cisgender Female (see Cis Female)

Cisgender Male (see Cis Male)

Cisgender Man (see Cis Male)

Cisgender Woman (see Cis Female)

Female to Male/ FTM- a trans person who was assigned female sex, and now lives as a man and has a masculine gender identity. This person may or may not have altered his physical body with surgery, hormones, or other modifications (e.g., voice training to develop a deeper spoken voice). FTM is an abbreviation of female to male. Generally uses masculine pronouns (e.g., "he" or "his") or gender neutral pronouns.

Gender Fluid- someone whose gender identity and presentation are not confined to only one gender category. Gender fluid people may have dynamic or fluctuating understandings of their gender, moving between categories as feels right. For example, a gender fluid person might feel more like a man one day and more like a woman on another day, or that neither term is a good fit.

Gender Nonconforming- Someone who looks and/or behaves in ways that don't conform to, or are atypical of, society's expectations of how a person of that gender should look or behave. (See also this excellent article by Dr. Eric Grollman about gender conformity & gender non-conformity).

Gender Questioning- Someone who may be questioning their gender or gender identity, and/or considering other ways of experiencing or expressing their gender or gender presentation.

Gender Variant- an umbrella term that refers to anyone who, for any reason, does not have a cisgender identity (which includes the trans* umbrella). Others acknowledge issues with this term as it implies that such genders are "deviations" from a standard gender, and reinforces the "naturalness" of the two-gender system. Some prefer the terms "gender diverse" or "gender-nonconforming."

Genderqueer- Someone who identifies outside of, or wishes to challenge, the two-gender (i.e., man/woman) system; may identify as multiple genders, a combination of genders, or "between" genders. People who use this term may feel that they are reclaiming the word "queer", which has historically been used as a slur against gay men and women. This term is used more often by younger generations doing the "reclaiming" and less often by slightly older generations who may have personally experienced the term "queer" as a slur.

Intersex- Generally refers to someone whose chromosomes, gonads (i.e., ovaries or testes), hormonal profiles, and anatomy do not conform to the expected configurations ofeither male typical or female typical bodies. Some intersex conditions are apparent at birth, while others are noticed around puberty or later (if ever). Some individuals no longer use the term "intersex conditions" and instead prefer "disorders of sex development." (See ISNA.org.)

Male to Female/MTF- a trans person who was assigned male sex (likely at birth), and now lives as a woman and has a feminine gender identity. This person may or may not have altered her physical body with surgery, hormones, or other modification (e.g., voice training, electrolysis, etc). MTF is an abbreviation of "Male To Female". Generally uses female pronouns (e.g., "she" or "her") or gender neutral pronouns.

Neither- Not putting a label on one's gender.

Neutrois- An umbrella term within the bigger umbrella terms of transgender or genderqueer. Includes people who do not identify within the binary gender system (i.e., man/woman). According to Neutrois.com, some common Neutrois identities include agender neither-gender, and gender-less.

Non-binary- Similar to genderqueer, this is a way of describing one's gender as outside the two-gender (i.e., man/woman) system and/or challenging that system.

Other- Choosing to not provide a commonly recognized label to one's gender. When used by someone to describe themselves, this may feel like a freeing way of describing (or not specifically describing) their gender. The term "other" should not be used to refer to people whose gender you can't quite understand or place.

Pangender- "Pan" means every, or all, and this is another identity label such like genderqueer or neutrois that challenges binary gender and is inclusive of gender diverse people.

Transgender- an umbrella term that includes all people who have genders not traditionally associated with their assigned sex. People who identify as transgender may or may not have altered their bodies through surgery and/or hormones. Some examples:

Trans Man (see FTM above); Although some people write the term as "transman" (no space between trans and man) or trans-man (note the hyphen), some advocate for a space to be included between "trans" and "man" in order to indicate that the person is a man and that the "trans" part may not be a defining characteristic or central to his identity.

Trans Woman (see MTF above) Although some people write the term as "transwoman" (no space between trans and woman) or trans-woman (note the hyphen), some advocate for a space to be included between "trans" and "woman" in order to indicate that the person is a woman and that the "trans" part may not be a defining characteristic or central to her identity.

Trans Female (see MTF above)

Trans Male (see FTM above)

Trans Person (see transgender above); another way of saying someone is a transgender person. (Note that "transgender" tends to be preferred over "transgendered").

Trans* is an inclusive term, referring to the many ways one can transcend or even transgress gender or gender norms (e.g., it includes individuals who may identify as transgender, transsexual, gender diverse, etc). In many cases the asterisk (*) is not followed by a sex or gender term - it's just written as Trans* - to indicate that not all trans people identify with an established sex or gender label. Another option is to write it as:

Trans*Person (see transgender above)

Other times, a sex or gender label may be used:

Trans*Female (see MTF)

Trans*Male (see FTM)

Trans*Man (see FTM)

Trans*Woman (see MTF)

Transsexual person - For many people this term indicates that a person has made lasting changes to their physical body, specifically their sexual anatomy (e.g., genitals and/or breasts or chest), through surgery. For some, the term "transsexual" is a problematic term because of its history of pathology or association with a psychological disorder. In order to get the operations necessary for sexual reassignment surgeries or gender confirming surgeries, people long needed a psychiatric diagnosis (historically, that diagnosis was "transsexualism") and recommendations from mental health professionals. The term "transsexual" tends to be used less often by younger generations of trans persons.

Transsexual Woman - Someone who was assigned male sex at birth who has most likely transitioned (such as through surgery and/or hormones) to living as a woman.

Transsexual Man- Someone who was assigned female at birth who has most likely transitioned (such as through surgery and/or hormones) to living as a man.

Transsexual Female (see Transsexual Woman)

Transsexual Male (see Transsexual Man)

Transgender is an umbrella term which includes all people who have genders not traditionally associated with their sex at birth. Transgender person can also be used. This may (but does not necessarily) include:

Transgender Female (see MTF)

Transgender Male (see FTM)

Transgender Man (see FTM)

Transgender Woman (see MTF)

Transmasculine- Someone assigned a female sex at birth and who identifies as masculine, but may not identify wholly as a man. Often, you'll encounter the phrase "masculine of center" to indicate where people who identify as transmasculine see themselves in relation to other genders.

Transfeminine- Someone assigned a male sex at birth who identifies as feminine, but may not identify wholly as a woman. Often, you'll encounter the phrase "feminine of center" to indicate where people who identify as transfeminine see themselves in relation to other genders.

Two-spirit- This term likely originated with the Zuni tribe of North America, though two-spirit persons have been documented in numerous tribes. Native Americans, who have both masculine and feminine characteristics and presentations, have distinct roles in their tribes, and they are seen as a third gender. (Recently, Germany and Nepal adopted a third gender option for citizens to select).


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

banzi said:


> I remember whe you were a man or a woman.
> 
> here are the options you can now choose from
> 
> ...


 That is a lot of options. Did not even know there were so many TBH. I can see the need for some of these terms to separate certain peoples current state from one another but genderqueer? WTF.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

duranman said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself


 If what you typed was half as funny as your general persona then you would be a f**king millionaire mate.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

They suck cock better than a real woman I can tell you that. 

And no is not an illness.. Let people be what they want doesn't affect you


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## 2016 (Nov 14, 2015)

No, it's not. It's just like sexuality, you don't have a choice.


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## fitrut (Nov 20, 2007)

Frandeman said:


> Let people be what they want doesn't affect you


 exactly this


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

fitrut said:


> exactly this


 What about the other part lol


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

2016 said:


> No, it's not. It's just like sexuality, you don't have a choice.


 I missed you :thumb


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## benji666 (Apr 18, 2015)

Interestingly a psychiatrist at an elite medical school in the US john hopkins has just talked about this.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

He believes trangenderism is a mental disorder and that surgery is not a solution. I always felt that, the surgery is basically butchery in my opinion and was first perfected by dr josef mengeler in nazi concentration camps. I would jail surgeons who perform such operations on people with a clear mental disorder.


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## fitrut (Nov 20, 2007)

Frandeman said:


> What about the other part lol


 hhm unfortunately i dont have it nor planning on getting one so cant really share any experience


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

I like vvv


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## fitrut (Nov 20, 2007)

i read Will Smith's Son Jaden Smith want his penis removed on his 18th bday interesting hows that gonna work for him ha


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I don't see it as normal behavior


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> I don't see it as normal behavior


 Worst things to be Steve


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

I'm indifferent. I know a couple of trans folk, they were nice, normal people.

It's the people that think they are part wolf or cat and sh*t like that that need serious psychological help.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

where's big al


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> Worst things to be Steve


 I'll take your word for that


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## 2016 (Nov 14, 2015)

Frandeman said:


> I missed you :thumb


 I'll be more active!


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

Ares said:


> I'm indifferent. I know a couple of trans folk, they were nice, normal people.
> 
> It's the people that think they are part wolf or cat and sh*t like that that need serious psychological help.


 No difference in thinking you're half animal half human, than being a man in a womans body or vice versa - they are both mentally unstable people who need serious help. You are either male or female - if you think you're a woman in a mans body, grab your balls and feel them and tell yourself you're a man!


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

There is a huge difference IMO, species being the main one! There are flids out there that think they are dragons ffs!


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

2016 said:


> No, it's not. It's just like sexuality, you don't have a choice.


 Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

2016 said:


> No, it's not. It's just like sexuality, you don't have a choice.


 I am aware it is not a choice, but the unfortunate truth is that you can never truly change your sex. It is similar to me saying I am a table and I identify myself with being a table, the reality is that I will never be a table, no matter how much wood I have grafted onto my body at the core I will always be what I am, no matter how hard I try.

The article that @benji666 posted is a good representation of this.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I am a tree....

It's time for me to leave


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> No difference in thinking you're half animal half human, than being a man in a womans body or vice versa - they are both mentally unstable people who need serious help. You are either male or female - if you think you're a woman in a mans body, grab your balls and feel them and tell yourself you're a man!





BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 This thread was started to discuss the topic at hand, Not as a venting post for your own sexual frustrations.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 And you called yourself batty boy lol

That guy you know was always gay..just got married because of people like you put pressure on then.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Ares said:


> I'm indifferent. I know a couple of trans folk, they were nice, normal people.
> 
> It's the people that think they are part wolf or cat and sh*t like that that need serious psychological help.


 I believe it to be two sides of the same coin.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> I remember whe you were a man or a woman.
> 
> here are the options you can now choose from
> 
> ...


 I think I'm gender fluid


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## 2016 (Nov 14, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 Sexuality isn't a choice. Obviously your "friend" is bisexual or hid his sexuality, why would people decide to be gay & get discriminated against?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 Oh lord...u need help!!!

He wasn't straight married for 10years with 2 kids ...he was gay but couldn't tell anyone so got married ( it's easy to do) had kids( just coz he's dosnt mean u can't shag a female ..but whether u enjoy it is another matter) and pretended for 10yrs to be straight. If it's just about reproducing what about the couples who can't have kids or don't want kids? Maybe we should give them lethal injection too as they serve no purpose.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> I think I'm gender fluid


 I wholeheartedly agree with you (fist bump)


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you (fist bump)


 Hahaha holy s**t we agree?


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> This thread was started to discuss the topic at hand, Not as a venting post for your own sexual frustrations.


 I'm discussing by sharing my views. If you like it or not I do not give a f**k.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Hahaha holy s**t we agree?


 depends, are you a man or a woman at the moment?


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> And you called yourself batty boy lol
> 
> That guy you know was always gay..just got married because of people like you put pressure on then.


 And you call yourself frandeman? Or should it be faggotman.

He wasn't pressured by anyone. He liked a woman - shagged her - popped 2 kids and turnt gay. Probably confused his love for a friend with love of a lover.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

It's easy to say it's not this or it is that but until you're in the same situation as them you can't really say what it is or isn't because you haven't experienced it.


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

2016 said:


> Sexuality isn't a choice. Obviously your "friend" is bisexual or hid his sexuality, why would people decide to be gay & get discriminated against?


 Sexuality is a choice. Are you gay?


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## bjaminny (Jan 3, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 The most uninformed post I've read on here. It's the 21st century.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Skye666 said:


> Oh lord...u need help!!!
> 
> He wasn't straight married for 10years with 2 kids ...he was gay but couldn't tell anyone so got married ( it's easy to do) had kids( just coz he's dosnt mean u can't shag a female ..but whether u enjoy it is another matter) and pretended for 10yrs to be straight. If it's just about reproducing what about the couples who can't have kids or don't want kids? Maybe we should give them lethal injection too as they serve no purpose.


 This.

You don't decide to be gay you're born that way. Most will probably deny it for a long time (marriage, kids etc) but they will know deep down it's not who they are, some will do something about it others won't.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> And you call yourself frandeman? Or should it be faggotman.
> 
> He wasn't pressured by anyone. He liked a woman - shagged her - popped 2 kids and turnt gay. Probably confused his love for a friend with love of a lover.


 I sense a sexual tension coming from you, are you flirting?


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Oh lord...u need help!!!
> 
> He wasn't straight married for 10years with 2 kids ...he was gay but couldn't tell anyone so got married ( it's easy to do) had kids( just coz he's dosnt mean u can't shag a female ..but whether u enjoy it is another matter) and pretended for 10yrs to be straight. If it's just about reproducing what about the couples who can't have kids or don't want kids? Maybe we should give them lethal injection too as they serve no purpose.


 I don't need help. The gays need help. They confuse the love of a friend with love of a lover.

LOL why would he get married if he was gay? He was straight and then decided he liked cock.

Ok answer me this - if the whole world turned gay, what would happen?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> depends, are you a man or a woman at the moment?


 Tbf I'm always woman these days


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## bjaminny (Jan 3, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> And you call yourself frandeman? Or should it be faggotman.
> 
> He wasn't pressured by anyone. He liked a woman - shagged her - popped 2 kids and turnt gay. Probably confused his love for a friend with love of a lover.


 Oh dear. You're fighting your internal confusion with comments like that. "Turned gay" as so many people do eh?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Tbf I'm all woman these days


 fixed


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> I'm discussing by sharing my views. If you like it or not I do not give a f**k.


 If you don't care then why do you feel the need to reply? Just save the hate speech, no one wants to hear it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> I don't need help. The gays need help. They confuse the love of a friend with love of a lover.
> 
> LOL why would he get married if he was gay? He was straight and then decided he liked cock.
> 
> Ok answer me this - if the whole world turned gay, what would happen?


 I sense a lot of inner turmoil.

Let it go


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> I don't need help. The gays need help. They confuse the love of a friend with love of a lover.
> 
> LOL why would he get married if he was gay? He was straight and then decided he liked cock.
> 
> Ok answer me this - if the whole world turned gay, what would happen?


 Iv no doubt ur dad prob said the same that's why u say it...but it's not true and quite uneducated of u to even think ' if he was why gay why get married' there's a whole load of reasons why and understandable ones but no point going there coz u will always side wi ya dad!

Theres as much chance of the world turning gay as there is it turning Muslim!!! But I know which I would I prefer if that was the choice.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> I don't need help. The gays need help. They confuse the love of a friend with love of a lover.
> 
> LOL why would he get married if he was gay? He was straight and then decided he liked cock.
> 
> Ok answer me this - if the whole world turned gay, what would happen?


 You'd be spoilt for choice


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> fixed


 Cheeeeekyyyyyyyyy ...but ok ...coy smile


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I sense a lot of inner turmoil.
> 
> Let it go


 Someone doth protest too much lol


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

bjaminny said:


> The most uninformed post I've read on here. It's the 21st century.


 Yh and? Its unatural.



Skye666 said:


> Iv no doubt ur dad prob said the same that's why u say it...but it's not true and quite uneducated of u to even think ' if he was why gay why get married' there's a whole load of reasons why and understandable ones but no point going there coz u will always side wi ya dad!
> 
> Theres as much chance of the world turning gay as there is it turning Muslim!!! But I know which I would I prefer if that was the choice.


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

bjaminny said:


> Oh dear. You're fighting your internal confusion with comments like that. "Turned gay" as so many people do eh?


 Are you gay?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> Yh and? Its unatural.


 do you butt f**k your 4 out of 10 girl?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> Are you gay?


 I am, problem?


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Frandeman said:


> They suck cock better than a real woman I can tell you that.
> 
> And no is not an illness.. Let people be what they want doesn't affect you


 My mate got a sookie off a Thai ladyboy and he stole his wallet which is how he found it it was a guy when the police returned it :lol:


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Iv no doubt ur dad prob said the same that's why u say it...but it's not true and quite uneducated of u to even think ' if he was why gay why get married' there's a whole load of reasons why and understandable ones but no point going there coz u will always side wi ya dad!
> 
> Theres as much chance of the world turning gay as there is it turning Muslim!!! But I know which I would I prefer if that was the choice.


 Is your dad gay?


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

banzi said:


> I am, problem?


 Yh kill yourself.


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

banzi said:


> do you butt f**k your 4 out of 10 girl?


 Nah but id do one of your family members.


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## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Someone doth protest too much lol


 Are you banzi's bitch?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> Is your dad gay?


 Don't start me off...he didn't want me ..boooooo hoooo


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## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

This topic has sort of turned into a Facebook comments section

It's all gone a bit US Christian gay hating, here


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> I am of the school that a person is who he/she is and not what they believe themselves to identify with.
> 
> I would not consider this a debilitating problem and people are quite welcome to do as they please, it is their body and I am not prejudice or judging anyone, I personally don't care what they do. What I do care about is the fact that people can get a 'gender transformative surgery' on the NSH and demand it as their 'right'. If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Discuss.


 Transgender go through extensive psychiatric evaluation before any hormone therapy or surgical intervention, they don't just walk in a doctors and get booked in for surgery - in most instances it takes many years.


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## bjaminny (Jan 3, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Are you gay?


 Are you still at school? A person who makes comments like yours leaves me wondering wtf you're doing on a forum that has educated, well informed and inoffensive members on it?

Of course you've inherited these archaic and backward opinions from some other blinkered older member of your family. Learn to think for yourself, son, it makes the world a better place you know.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> Are you banzi's bitch?


 Are you jealous sweetcheeks? That's cute


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

bjaminny said:


> Are you still at school? A person who makes comments like yours leaves me wondering wtf you're doing on *a forum that has educated, well informed and inoffensive members on it? *
> 
> Of course you've inherited these archaic and backward opinions from some other blinkered older member of your family. Learn to think for yourself, son, it makes the world a better place you know.


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## bjaminny (Jan 3, 2015)

banzi said:


>


 I had a feeling you'd comment on this.

Ok, most of the members that applies to.


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

bjaminny said:


> Are you still at school? A person who makes comments like yours leaves me wondering wtf you're doing on a forum that has educated, well informed and inoffensive members on it?
> 
> Of course you've inherited these archaic and backward opinions from some other blinkered older member of your family. Learn to think for yourself, son, it makes the world a better place you know.


 "Educated" - Yh ok if you say so. All I said was being gay is unatural and you got your knickers in a twist. Either you are gay or a closet gay? Or your gf left you for being a beta bitch. Or you're just a little bitch who needs to calm down,


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Don't start me off...he didn't want me ..boooooo hoooo


----------



## bjaminny (Jan 3, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> "Educated" - Yh ok if you say so. All I said was being gay is unatural and you got your knickers in a twist. Either you are gay or a closet gay? Or your gf left you for being a beta bitch. Or you're just a little bitch who needs to calm down,


 Nothing like a thick, keyboard warrior to bring a forum alive


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Are you jealous sweetcheeks? That's cute


 Nah not really feline you carry on walking behind him holding his back pockets.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> "Educated" - Yh ok if you say so. All I said was being gay is unatural and you got your knickers in a twist. Either you are gay or a closet gay? Or your gf left you for being a beta bitch. Or you're just a little bitch who needs to calm down,


 Do you know that some queers are rough, but some roughs are queer?


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

bjaminny said:


> Nothing like a thick, keyboard warrior to bring a forum alive


 I'm bored.


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

banzi said:


> Do you know that some queers are rough, but some roughs are queer?


 Did you know you're a f**got?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> Nah not really feline you carry on walking behind him holding his back pockets.


 Actually I walk beside him carrying the shopping......cos I know how to treat my man.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> I'm boring my asshole with a cucumber.


 fixed


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> Did you know you're a f**got?


 Yes, it was me that told you a few posts back.


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

banzi said:


> Yes, it was me that told you a few posts back.


 Why haven't you killed yourself yet then?


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

banzi said:


> fixed


 Thanks


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Actually I walk beside him carrying the shopping......cos I know how to treat my man.


 You sound whipped.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> Why haven't you killed yourself yet then?


 I dont have the courage, Im too gay to be brave.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> I want to whip you


 I thought as much


----------



## Yes (May 4, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 Can't disagree more.

I'm gay. I've been attracted to men as long as I can remember. I certainly wasn't raised to be gay, in fact I grew up in a homophobic environment. Your friend was either bi, gay or somewhere on the scale. You can't choose what you are attracted to.

Your second point of homosexuality being unnatural is harder one to answer, as I don't think that a gay gene has ever been identified. However, homosexuality has been observed in hundreds of other species.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Yes said:


> Can't disagree more.
> 
> I'm gay. I've been attracted to men as long as I can remember. I certainly wasn't raised to be gay, in fact I grew up in a homophobic environment. Your friend was either bi, gay or somewhere on the scale. You can't choose what you are attracted to.
> 
> Your second point of homosexuality being unnatural is harder one to answer, as I don't think that a gay gene has ever been identified. However,* homosexuality has been observed in hundreds of other species.*


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

banzi said:


> I dont have the courage, Im too gay to be brave.


 You're not gay enough. OD yourself on some poppers.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> You're not gay enough for me. I once nearly OD'd on bbc


 Fvcking knew it


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Think this is @BTN BOY coming out thread


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Think this is @BTN BOY coming out thread


 Yes, its a wonderful sight to behold...


----------



## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

People just got too much time on their hands


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

BTN BOY said:


> And you call yourself frandeman? Or should it be faggotman.
> 
> He wasn't pressured by anyone. He liked a woman - shagged her - popped 2 kids and turnt gay. Probably confused his love for a friend with love of a lover.


 I make straight man become gay careful batty boy


----------



## CandleLitDesert (Mar 8, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Sexuality is a choice. You are moulded to like a certain gender over time. People that say they are born gay are deluded. I know a guy who was straight - married with 2 kids and 10 years later decided he was gay. So he was not born gay. Secondly being gay is unatural - a man and man cannot reproduce - same with women. If everyone turns gay, then the human race will cease.


 that's a pretty ugly opinion IMO


----------



## Dai the drive (Dec 17, 2013)

Yes said:


> Can't disagree more.
> 
> I'm gay. I've been attracted to men as long as I can remember. I certainly wasn't raised to be gay, in fact I grew up in a homophobic environment. Your friend was either bi, gay or somewhere on the scale. You can't choose what you are attracted to.
> 
> Your second point of homosexuality being unnatural is harder one to answer, as I don't think that a gay gene has ever been identified. However, homosexuality has been observed in hundreds of other species.


 Erm, slightly anthropomorphic there, old fruit.

Homosexuality has not been 'observed' in animals - that interpretation is just that of the observer.

However, a recent theory as to why homosexuality hasn't eradicated itself through traditionally non-reproductive partners is that siblings of homosexual people are actually more reproductive themselves.

Now, there are many theories about genetics and/or exposure to hormones in utero (or maybe just someone just looks nice) being responsible for sexual proclivity - but, frankly, who cares?

Let bygones be bigenders.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> Transgender go through extensive psychiatric evaluation before any hormone therapy or surgical intervention, they don't just walk in a doctors and get booked in for surgery - in most instances it takes many years.


 I am aware they go through a lot of psychiatric evaluation but this is based on the idea that transgenderism is not a mental illness to begin with, this is the concept that I am questioning.

To revert back to my original post I personally cannot see the difference between someone wanting their leg removed and someone wanting a sex change operation. In my eyes they are the same thing, just two different examples of extreme body modification.


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Quackerz said:


> I am aware they go through a lot of psychiatric evaluation but this is based on the idea that transgenderism is not a mental illness to begin with, this is the concept that I am questioning.
> 
> To revert back to my original post I personally cannot see the difference between someone wanting their leg removed and someone wanting a sex change operation. In my eyes they are the same thing, just two different examples of extreme body modification.


 I agree. So if I want to be heartless I ask for my heart to be removed. Or do I just carry on being a c**t?


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Are these normal?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=body+mutilation&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr_7y3yd3KAhVJRBQKHYghCfYQ_AUIBygB


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> I am aware they go through a lot of psychiatric evaluation but this is based on the idea that transgenderism is not a mental illness to begin with, this is the concept that I am questioning.
> 
> To revert back to my original post I personally cannot see the difference between someone wanting their leg removed and someone wanting a sex change operation. In my eyes they are the same thing, just two different examples of extreme body modification.


 the official line on whether transgenderism is a mental illness is this> (cut and paste as i cant be arsed to type it out) , getting healthcare is about helping the individual and doing what is best for them regardless of its cause (if it was not half the country smokers would be ****ed , and they cost the NHS a lot more than the transgender community - i mention this as this is what you talk about in your original post , the same can be applied to many conditions/problems that are bought on by the person themselves )

''A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.

According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

BTN BOY said:


> You're not gay enough. OD yourself on some poppers.


 Stop your stupid comments.


----------



## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

FelonE said:


> Actually I walk beside him carrying the shopping......cos I know how to treat my man.


 Well...according to this lot on here that's incorrect...the way fwd is...a sandwhich and a Bj but I didn't catch which order. U better find out what filling bonzo likes in his sandwich


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> Well...according to this lot on here that's incorrect...the way fwd is...a sandwhich and a Bj but I didn't catch which order. U better find out what filling bonzo likes in his sandwich


 Lol


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

latblaster said:


> Stop your stupid comments.


 It's how he shows affection to men....he's flirting


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

If being gay is a choice then Btn boy is choosing too be straight and could become gay at any point. Careful.

On topic, I think it's interesting that transgenderism is the only dysmorphia that greats treated this way. If you compare it to something like anorexia which gets treated as a mental illness. That being said, people should be able to do what they want with their bodies IMO. Although I dint think a trans woman with a cock should be allowed in women's places.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Fbmmofo said:


> If being gay is a choice then Btn boy is choosing too be straight and could become gay at any point. Careful.
> 
> On topic, I think it's interesting that transgenderism is the only dysmorphia that greats treated this way. If you compare it to something like anorexia which gets treated as a mental illness. That being said, people should be able to do what they want with their bodies IMO. Although I dint think a trans woman with a cock should be allowed in *women's places. *


 are you referencing their vaginas?


----------



## Varg (May 17, 2010)

Fbmmofo said:


> Although I dint think a trans woman with a cock should be allowed in women's places.


 Trans rights seem to be infringing on women's rights - trans women allowed in women's toilets, prisons, etc. Any woman who doesn't like that is trans-phobic, apparently.

It doesn't affect us men that much.

The worrying thing is with trans kids. Parents insisting their 5yo boy is a trans girl :confused1: . What, because they put on their sister's dress or played with dolls a few times?

I read of one 8 or 9 year old "trans" girl, by coincidence the mother was a lecturer in trans studies!

Feel sorry for those poor kids.


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

Varg said:


> Trans rights seem to be infringing on women's rights - trans women allowed in women's toilets, prisons, etc. Any woman who doesn't like that is trans-phobic, apparently.
> 
> It doesn't affect us men that much.
> 
> ...


 Yeah I've been reading a lot of the feminist take on it, they aren't happy.

You're rights about kids, 5 years ago these kids would have been going through a stage or whatever, now they are trans.


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

BTN BOY said:


> Did you know you're a f**got?


 did you know you are?

http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=4040

search for the journal mentioned in the link, it may shed some light on your situation bottom boy


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Varg said:


> Trans rights seem to be infringing on women's rights - trans women allowed in women's toilets, prisons, etc. Any woman who doesn't like that is trans-phobic, apparently.
> 
> It doesn't affect us men that much.
> 
> ...


 whilst im very supporting of transgendered (especially pre-op porn stars) i do agree with you that its being pushed onto kids by parents with an agenda.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Yes said:


> Can't disagree more.
> 
> I'm gay. I've been attracted to men as long as I can remember. I certainly wasn't raised to be gay, in fact I grew up in a homophobic environment. Your friend was either bi, gay or somewhere on the scale. You can't choose what you are attracted to.
> 
> Your second point of homosexuality being unnatural is harder one to answer, as I don't think that a gay gene has ever been identified. However, homosexuality has been observed in hundreds of other species.


 I've got a Serious question to ask amongst the silliness within this thread.

Are people really 'born gay'? The reason I ask this question is because surely it is possible to 'turn gay' later in life just like it is possible to change your taste in who or what traits you want in a partner? For example, I've liked various types of women in my lifetime, and what I have probably found attractive in the past won't necessarily be what I'd entertain these days or vice versa.

Is it not possible to be straight, go gay, then go straight again? I don't mean bi-sexual but proper either way.

I'm in no way suggesting being gay isn't real, just questioning the finer points of what is being said.

The question applies to anyone really and not just the guy i quoted.

I was going to quote Skye but carried on reading the thread instead.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I've got a Serious question to ask amongst the silliness within this thread.
> 
> Are people really 'born gay'? The reason I ask this question is because surely it is possible to 'turn gay' later in life just like it is possible to change your taste in who or what traits you want in a partner? For example, I've liked various types of women in my lifetime, and what I have probably found attractive in the past won't necessarily be what I'd entertain these days or vice versa.
> 
> ...


 translated as "any port in a storm"


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> translated as "any port in a storm"


 Not really, I was just curious as to whether ALL those who 'go gay' later in life have been suppressing their true feelings or whether some have but then some have just 'changed' later in life.


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

I don't think anything is 100% nature or nurture. IMO things can happen to change the way you see things and like you said tastes can change.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Not really, I was just curious as to whether ALL those who 'go gay' later in life have been suppressing their true feelings or whether some have but then some have just 'changed' later in life.


 I know a guy who was married for 25 years then decided he was gay, destroyed his family, I dont think it was the fact he was gay, I think it was more to do with the lifetime of lies.

He said he always was attracted to men but got married because it was what his father and mother expected.

Hes fine now, his kids are OK with him, his ex-wifes still not around.

Although his taste in clothes has taken a nose dive (IMO)


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Fbmmofo said:


> I don't think anything is 100% nature or nurture. IMO things can happen to change the way you see things and like you said tastes can change.


 I remember that TV show where people go on dates, one guy said he went in hospital for an operation straight and came out after the OP gay.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> I know a guy who was married for 25 years then decided he was gay, destroyed his family, I dont think it was the fact he was gay, I think it was more to do with the lifetime of lies.
> 
> He said he always was attracted to men but got married because it was what his father and mother expected.
> 
> ...


 I understand there's the lifetime of lies ones but I'm curious as to if there are those who've actually changed so they've not been living a lie, just simply changed at some point in their lives.


----------



## Varg (May 17, 2010)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Not really, I was just curious as to whether ALL those who 'go gay' later in life have been suppressing their true feelings or whether some have but then some have just 'changed' later in life.


 I think some people deny their true feelings and get married, etc.

But I'm sure there are some who don't change as such, they just realise when they're older. Perhaps they're not gay but bi, society expects them to go with opposite sex so they do, but later realise they prefer same sex.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Varg said:


> I think some people deny their true feelings and get married, etc.
> 
> But I'm sure there are some who don't change as such, they just realise when they're older. Perhaps they're not gay but bi, society expects them to go with opposite sex so they do, but later realise they prefer same sex.


 Could be, so you say they were born that way?


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> I remember that TV show where people go on dates, one guy said he went in hospital for an operation straight and came out after the OP gay.


 I read a story about someone having a brain injury and that turned them gay


----------



## Varg (May 17, 2010)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Could be, so you say they were born that way?


 I guess so, but it took them a long time to realise it.


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

.some men you can see they are gay from a young age... Others hide it well

With women is more difficult until they become more adults..

What about bisexuals?

Most females and banging lately they like pussy as much as dick..


----------



## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I've got a Serious question to ask amongst the silliness within this thread.
> 
> Are people really 'born gay'? The reason I ask this question is because surely it is possible to 'turn gay' later in life just like it is possible to change your taste in who or what traits you want in a partner? For example, I've liked various types of women in my lifetime, and what I have probably found attractive in the past won't necessarily be what I'd entertain these days or vice versa.
> 
> ...


 Got two mates who came out after marriage + kids etc

One in 20's one 30's

Both knew from child/teenhood but repressed it due to family/religious forces

Both west indian descent incidentally


----------



## trey1 (Aug 10, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Why haven't you killed yourself yet then?


 u shoud kill yourself for bein a ****n retard. I had my fare share of stick on here but you are 100 times worse.

Fight me cvnt


----------



## Hoddsy (Oct 9, 2008)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Not really, I was just curious as to whether ALL those who 'go gay' later in life have been suppressing their true feelings or whether some have but then some have just 'changed' later in life.


 I knew as soon as I hit puberty. But looking back before then It's pretty obvious to me I was interested in guys from when I was very young, way before puberty.

Yes I believe I was born this way. There is no concious choice to choose sexuality. I could f**k women all day long but I'd still be gay. People know their sexuality even if they don't act on it.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Interesting responses.


----------



## trey1 (Aug 10, 2015)

Think i scared the homofobic idiot away :beer:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Hoddsy said:


> I knew as soon as I hit puberty. But looking back before then It's pretty obvious to me I was interested in guys from when I was very young, way before puberty.
> 
> Yes I believe I was born this way. There is no concious choice to choose sexuality. *I could f**k women all day long but I'd still be gay. *People know their sexuality even if they don't act on it.


 leave them for us, you made your choice.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> leave them for us, you made your choice.


 I thought you said you'd made your choice too.....I can't believe you're now making out you're straight after I've PM'd you!! :huh:


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

trey1 said:


> Think i scared the homofobic idiot away [IMG alt=":beer:" data-emoticon="true"]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.3/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_beer.gif&key=c7a1fd8f3609ab58065a30731e91591348a32dec4ee820baf5ecc76329dbcc6d[/IMG]


 Hard as nails you are chap...!!

:cool2:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I thought you said you'd made your choice too.....I can't believe you're now making out you're straight after I've PM'd you!! :huh:


 Whichever way the wind blows....


----------



## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it can be genetic for some.

Don't remember the exact process, but something to do with the androgen gene being in the x chromosome. They should only be switched on in the presence of a y chromosome (i.e xy = male), but as with everything in nature it's not quite as black and white as that and can be switched on in females too (xx). This is why mpb is always inherited from the mothers side.

Likewise there are men that have androgen insensitivity syndrome and while xy (male) they don't develop full male characteristics (to a varying degree).

So it's not always as black and white as being just male or female.

Does this make it a mental illness, no, because one, it's a condition (not an illness), and two it's deeper ingrained in your makeup than just in the brain (at least in some cases).


----------



## trey1 (Aug 10, 2015)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Hard as nails you are chap...!!
> 
> :cool2:


 thanks r kid


----------



## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Quackerz said:


> I am of the school that a person is who he/she is and not what they believe themselves to identify with.
> 
> I would not consider this a debilitating problem and people are quite welcome to do as they please, it is their body and I am not prejudice or judging anyone, I personally don't care what they do. What I do care about is the fact that people can get a 'gender transformative surgery' on the NSH and demand it as their 'right'. If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Discuss.


 If I identified as a German Shepard would people accept me as that! It's an untreatable mental disorder I say. I don't doubt these ppl believe they are of the opposite sex but I'm afraid it's not their choice to make the can pretend until the cows come home and more power to them but it doesn't make them the opposite of what they were born


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> the official line on whether transgenderism is a mental illness is this> (cut and paste as i cant be arsed to type it out) , getting healthcare is about helping the individual and doing what is best for them regardless of its cause (if it was not half the country smokers would be ****ed , and they cost the NHS a lot more than the transgender community - i mention this as this is what you talk about in your original post , the same can be applied to many conditions/problems that are bought on by the person themselves )
> 
> ''A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons.
> 
> According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), people who experience intense, persistent gender incongruence can be given the diagnosis of "gender dysphoria." Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated. Others argue that it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care. The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) is under revision and there may be changes to its current classification of intense persistent gender incongruence as "gender identity disorder."


 I would state otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

The Trans-gender community also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world coming in at around 50%. That would make 50% of all sex change operation applicants either having attempted or thinking about committing suicide. I would not consider this a sound state of mind.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

anaboliclove said:


> If I identified as a German Shepard would people accept me as that! It's an untreatable mental disorder I say. I don't doubt these ppl believe they are of the opposite sex but I'm afraid it's not their choice to make the can pretend until the cows come home and more power to them but it doesn't make them the opposite of what they were born


 This is a good point and often overlooked, it is impossible to actually change your sex in the first place. This is what people don't seem to understand more than anything.


----------



## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> This is a good point and often overlooked, it is impossible to actually change your sex in the first place. This is what people don't seem to understand more than anything.


 With reference to my post above, your gender isn't as black and white as some believe... there are shades of grey. So yes, you can't 'change' what you are, but what you are isn't clear for some.


----------



## UK2USA (Jan 30, 2016)

If you really think it's simply a choice next time ur in the gym find the biggest bloke there ans CHOOSE to give him a blog job! Bollix mate, it's not a choice.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

2004mark said:


> With reference to my post above, your gender isn't as black and white as some believe... there are shades of grey. So yes, you can't 'change' what you are, but what you are isn't clear for some.


 Then why is Gender Dysphoria documented as a mental disorder?

As for your gender not being black and white, you are sexed at birth, it is as black and white as you can get. A male that is not fully developed in later life is still a man regardless. A woman who exhibits male characteristics is still a woman. I fail to see the grey.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

UK2USA said:


> If you really think it's simply a choice next time ur in the gym find the biggest bloke there ans CHOOSE to give him a blog job! Bollix mate, it's not a choice.


 blog job?


----------



## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Then why is Gender Dysphoria documented as a mental disorder?
> 
> As for your gender not being black and white, you are sexed at birth, it is as black and white as you can get. A male that is not fully developed in later life is still a man regardless. A woman who exhibits male characteristics is still a woman. I fail to see the grey.


 The NHS state "...It is not a mental illness." - http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

What about hermaphrodites? What about people with XX male syndrome or XY gonadal dysgenesis? These are extreme cases, but there will be cases that are far less obvious. So just because you have nads or a growler doesn't mean there isn't other stuff going on beneath the surface than make you different to the 'norm'.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

2004mark said:


> The NHS state "...It is not a mental illness." - http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx
> 
> What about hermaphrodites? What about people with XX male syndrome or XY gonadal dysgenesis? These are extreme cases, but there will be cases that are far less obvious. So just because you have nads or a growler doesn't mean there isn't other stuff going on beneath the surface than make you different to the 'norm'.


 Then in these cases people would either be choosing lo live their life as a woman or as a man. They would still always be Intersexed regardless of surgery.


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

trey1 said:


> u shoud kill yourself for bein a ****n retard. I had my fare share of stick on here but you are 100 times worse.
> 
> Fight me cvnt


 Why would I fight you? You'd probably try and bum me you ******** c**t. If I could id burn you and all your gay lot together, or even better gas the lot.


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

2004mark said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it can be genetic for some.
> 
> Don't remember the exact process, but something to do with the androgen gene being in the x chromosome. They should only be switched on in the presence of a y chromosome (i.e xy = male), but as with everything in nature it's not quite as black and white as that and can be switched on in females too (xx). This is why mpb is always inherited from the mothers side.
> 
> ...


 never mind it's already been discussed


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Fbmmofo said:


> Is that not being Asexual? Which is a recognised physical condition and separate from trans stuff


 Asexual is where you have no association with sexual feelings. You cannot process sexual emotions and have no desire to reproduce. What @2004mark has posted is completly relevant to the topic.


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Then in these cases people would either be choosing lo live their life as a woman or as a man. They would still always be Intersexed regardless of surgery.


 I think a lot of people use sex and gender as interchangable words when in actual fact they describe different things and that's where a lot of confusion comes from


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> Asexual is where you have no association with sexual feelings. You cannot process sexual emotions and have no desire to reproduce. What @2004mark has posted is completly relevant to the topic.


 Yeah sorry confused myself and edited


----------



## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

so much pointless s**t and labels. why cant have just three groups hetero man, hetero woman and everything fu**ing else. Everyone wants their own word for their fu**ing condition. f**k you. you dont get a word. you are just something else lol


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Fbmmofo said:


> I think a lot of people use sex and gender as interchangable words when in actual fact they describe different things and that's where a lot of confusion comes from


 Could you re-phrase that? I am having trouble trying to understand what you mean. As far as sex and gender are concerned they can be used as and are interchangeable words.


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

Well yes they can be but they shouldn't be. Sex is what you're born with ( apart from a smaller percentage who are born as both), you are either born male or female.

Gender is social and cultural. From wiki

"

*Gender* is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity."


----------



## UK2USA (Jan 30, 2016)

Quackerz said:


> blog job?


 Damn spell checker nonsense.....I hate these phones! And what's wrong with a blog job anyway


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

iamyou said:


> so much pointless s**t and labels. why cant have just three groups hetero man, hetero woman and everything fu**ing else. Everyone wants their own word for their fu**ing condition. f**k you. you dont get a word. you are just something else lol


 I'm the last...

I f**k everything else


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Surely your reproductive organs determine what sex you are. All these different terms nowadays are to keep the soft 'pc' lot happy and in my opinion nonsense


----------



## Varg (May 17, 2010)

iamyou said:


> so much pointless s**t and labels. why cant have just three groups hetero man, hetero woman and everything fu**ing else. Everyone wants their own word for their fu**ing condition. f**k you. you dont get a word. you are just something else lol


 Easily said for a heterosexual male.


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

Sex is biological - male, female and intersex

Gender is mental/cutural/socialised, person dependant

Sexual attraction is innate


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Tag said:


> Sex is biological - male, female and intersex
> 
> Gender is mental/cutural/socialised, person dependant
> 
> Sexual attraction is innate


 word.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> I would state otherwise.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
> 
> The Trans-gender community also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world coming in at around 50%. That would make 50% of all sex change operation applicants either having attempted or thinking about committing suicide. I would not consider this a sound state of mind.


 of course you have your own opinion , however i used a quote from the DSM -V - a worldwide recognised psychiatric diagnostic tool that is used in this country (among others) in conjunction with the ICD-10.

the suicide statistics stand a good chance of coming from not being able to get treatment or the stigma these people have to live with - in many cases the mental illness is probably the secondary trigger rather than the primary problem.

... and you used wiki


----------



## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

jake87 said:


> Surely your reproductive organs determine what sex you are. All these different terms nowadays are to keep the soft 'pc' lot happy and in my opinion nonsense


 ^^^ This.

You want to find out your gender, have a look in your pants, that should give you a clue.


----------



## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Varg said:


> Easily said for a heterosexual male.


 Not sure what I am. I love women but I absolutely cannot watch a porno where the guy's pecker is too small.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> of course you have your own opinion , however i used a quote from the DSM -V - a worldwide recognised psychiatric diagnostic tool that is used in this country (among others) in conjunction with the ICD-10.
> 
> ... and you used wiki


 It is a fairly widespread opinion. And not once has anyone actually produced a valid answer to my argument either. People seem to avoid questions they have no answers to and simply reply avoiding my initial questions and statements without ever answering in the full extent. Let me ask you.

If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?

Lets just leave wikipedia out of this


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

jake87 said:


> Surely your reproductive organs determine what sex you are. All these different terms nowadays are to keep the soft 'pc' lot happy and in my opinion nonsense


 Yup, it determines a person biological identity, but not their sexual identity.

Wouldn't be surprised if your response is that all the Eton/Harrow educated Conservatives, are of the Chutney persuasion.

Bet they are though....... 

Nope, I'm not poking fun at Homosexuality, as I consider it to be within the 'sexual spectrum'. 

Mind you, I think @BTN BOY is an uphill gardener - aren't you love!?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)




----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> the suicide statistics stand a good chance of coming from not being able to get treatment or the stigma these people have to live with - in many cases the mental illness is probably the secondary trigger rather than the primary problem.


 You would have to be fairly mentally unstable to begin with, it is the same throughout with other disorders such as species dysphoria. It is always the same kinds of unstable people that gravitate towards these extreme ideologies.

How is asking for the legal right to be a woman when you are not a woman and the legal right to be a dog when you are not a dog any different? And why is the person who identifies as a woman given treatment whilst the dog gets none? And why is this treatment paid for by my taxes? How is it in their rights to receive said treatment?


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

Quackerz said:


> It is a fairly widespread opinion. And not once has anyone actually produced a valid answer to my argument either. People seem to avoid questions they have no answers to and simply reply avoiding my initial questions and statements without ever answering in the full extent. Let me ask you.
> 
> If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Lets just leave wikipedia out of this


 Iv used the same analogy


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> You would have to be fairly mentally unstable to begin with, it is the same throughout with other disorders such as species dysphoria. It is always the same kinds of unstable people that gravitate towards these extreme ideologies.
> 
> How is asking for the legal right to be a woman when you are not a woman and the legal right to be a dog when you are not a dog any different? And why is the person who identifies as a woman given treatment whilst the dog gets none? And why is this treatment paid for by my taxes? How is it in their rights to receive said treatment?


 Who says these people are Mentally Unstable?

Please substantiate this.

You compare Humans to Dogs in terms of Rights? Really?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

latblaster said:


> Who says these people are Mentally Unstable?
> 
> Please substantiate this.
> 
> *You compare Humans to Dogs in terms of Rights? Really?*


 Rights are just things other people allow you to have.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

latblaster said:


> Who says these people are Mentally Unstable?
> 
> Please substantiate this.
> 
> You compare Humans to Dogs in terms of Rights?


 I am not comparing humans to dogs, re-read my sentence. Let's substitute the word dog for butterfly. It sounds nicer. Dog was just the first animal that came to me.

Saying that 'these' people are mentally unstable is my own experience of it. What I have seen myself and the evidence I base my opinion on. I do not simply accept something as fact to make others simply feel better about themselves. I will happily refer to a man as 'her' if that is what he (she) chooses. I will never accept it as the reality of the situation though. To state otherwise is not reality, it is merely a fabrication of the truth.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

benno_2010 said:


> Iv used the same analogy


 Trans-abled always makes for a good argument.


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

banzi said:


> Rights are just things other people allow you to have.


 A grossly simplistic viewpoint, yes. There is however, much more to Rights, than this.

But if this is yet another daft trolling event, then I won't expand on this.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

latblaster said:


> A grossly simplistic viewpoint, yes. *There is however, much more to Rights, than this.*
> 
> But if this is yet another daft trolling event, then I won't expand on this.


 No there isnt, Rights" were created by men to make you believe you have worth on this shitty planet.


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

Quackerz said:


> Trans-abled always makes for a good argument.


 Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it one day it happens, instead of treatment for the mentality, it is pandered to


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

benno_2010 said:


> Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it one day it happens, instead of treatment for the mentality, it is pandered to


 It is already here. I am just holding out for Trans-object.

http://www.biid.org/


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

banzi said:


> No there isnt, Rights" were created by men to make you believe you have worth on this shitty planet.


 QED.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> It is a fairly widespread *opinion*. And not once has anyone actually produced a valid answer to my argument either. People seem to avoid questions they have no answers to and simply reply avoiding my initial questions and statements without ever answering in the full extent. Let me ask you.
> 
> If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Lets just leave wikipedia out of this


 as highlighted above, its an opinion (the same as mine is )

i dont see how i have not answered your argument as i have given the medical tool as a reference (one that is used worldwide) or are you saying that the bulk of the professional worldwide psychiatric community are wrong and you are right?

you bought wiki into the conversation not me :tongue:

as i said before transgender are subject to full psychiatric evaluation before anything is done the same as the man who wants one leg is , it could be argued that allowing a transgender person to undergo hormone therapy /surgical intervention will improve their life (as this is what they identify with - they dont identify with the body they have, this is putting it right)

removing a person leg will simply make them disabled.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> *You would have to be fairly mentally unstable to begin with*, it is the same throughout with other disorders such as species dysphoria. It is always the same kinds of unstable people that gravitate towards these extreme ideologies.
> 
> How is asking for the legal right to be a woman when you are not a woman and the legal right to be a dog when you are not a dog any different? And why is the person who identifies as a woman given treatment whilst the dog gets none? And why is this treatment paid for by my taxes? How is it in their rights to receive said treatment?


 above highlighted is again your opinion as for the rest - read the equality act of 2010 for legal rights.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Quackerz said:


> It is a fairly widespread opinion. And not once has anyone actually produced a valid answer to my argument either. People seem to avoid questions they have no answers to and simply reply avoiding my initial questions and statements without ever answering in the full extent. Let me ask you.
> 
> If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Lets just leave wikipedia out of this [IMG alt="" data-emoticon="true"]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.5/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png&key=6fdef74361d8af8c54d6a26e30a7b17033f6e0ba73b641a8297c72f4fca75b04[/IMG]


 Quackers: "Doc, I'm a woman trapped in a mans body.

Doc gets on the phone.

Doc: "I've got a gent in here, can you collect him?, he's Quackerz...."


----------



## trey1 (Aug 10, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Why would I fight you? You'd probably try and bum me you ******** c**t. If I could id burn you and all your gay lot together, or even better gas the lot.


 u would love to be bummed. all this comotion to hide fact that your in closet and afraid to come out. Poor boy


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

trey1 said:


> u would love to be bummed. all this comotion to hide fact that your in closet and afraid to come out. Poor boy


 Sort your grammar out you pikey.


----------



## trey1 (Aug 10, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> Sort your grammar out you pikey.


 Cool story mate


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Quackerz said:


> It is a fairly widespread opinion. And not once has anyone actually produced a valid answer to my argument either. People seem to avoid questions they have no answers to and simply reply avoiding my initial questions and statements without ever answering in the full extent. Let me ask you.
> 
> If I went to my Doctor and asked for instance to have my leg surgically removed because I identify myself with a one-legged man and am Trans-abled he would more than likely refer me to a psychiatrist. Why is this not the case in a similar instance with Trans-genders?
> 
> Lets just leave wikipedia out of this [IMG alt="" data-emoticon="true"]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png&key=aa0e6f9a414bd43f48f1f9ab68f58de8c3301be8b53d851e6201a554727b4636[/IMG]


 I'm pretty sure there are cases where people with injuries etc have had limbs removed because the pain is destroying them. No difference to transgendered having things removed cos the pain is destroying them. Mental or physical, pain is pain.


----------



## BTN BOY (May 13, 2014)

trey1 said:


> Cool story mate


 I'm not your mate you c**t.


----------



## trey1 (Aug 10, 2015)

BTN BOY said:


> I'm not your mate you c**t.


 Pipe down sweetheart


----------



## Hera (May 6, 2011)

From my understanding, research is suggesting that a neurological issue occurs in the womb whereby the brain of someone is different to the sex of the body. I don't know enough though to discuss that further but I am aware that medical evidence is surfacing.

Gender and sex are two different things whereby sex is physiologically determined and gender is socially constructed, as is identity. If 'labels' and 'terms' help people gain a more concrete understanding of who they are then I'm all for that. In much the same way that having a 'diagnosis' or 'label' helps people better make sense of their situation. I couldn't give two hoots if there are hundreds of different names for different genders, in much the same way that I don't care that there of tonnes of labels for personality types, traits, illnesses, learning difficulties etc. It is the nature of language to establish concepts/terms/labels that help us better navigate in our society and that's the same for identity.

Establishing your identity and gender is easy if you happen to fall into a typical stereotype, but for those who differ from societal norms, life can become unbearable...especially if people refuse to accept you.

With regards to having work done on the NHS, people undergo extensive psychological and psychiatric assessment to ensure that they indeed need the work. Medical care is there to prolong and improve life which also includes psychological. If someone is born in the wrong body and the medical team agree that their lives will be extended and improved by surgery then they're doing their job.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Hera said:


> If someone is born in the wrong body and the medical team agree that their lives will be extended and improved by surgery then they're doing their job.


 I know that men don't live as long as women but I can't see their lives being extended by inverting the penis...


----------



## Hera (May 6, 2011)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I know that men don't live as long as women but I can't see their lives being extended by inverting the penis...


 Suicide is quite a big issue for people who are transgender, but it's more quality of life that I was referring to.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> as highlighted above, its an opinion (the same as mine is )
> 
> i dont see how i have not answered your argument as i have given the medical tool as a reference (one that is used worldwide) or are you saying that the bulk of the professional worldwide psychiatric community are wrong and you are right?
> 
> ...


 Whether or not it would improve their life is not what I am trying to discuss. They should get surgery done if that is what they want to do. (all gender neutral terms there  )

My main point is why gender dyphoria and body integrity identity disorder are classified differently. As far as I am concerned they seem to be fairly similar in how they manifest and how people who have these feel emotionally about it. Why is one a mental disorder where the other is not? It just seems to baffle me.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

a.notherguy said:


> I'm pretty sure there are cases where people with injuries etc have had limbs removed because the pain is destroying them. No difference to transgendered having things removed cos the pain is destroying them. Mental or physical, pain is pain.


 That statement does not answer the question.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Whether or not it would improve their life is not what I am trying to discuss. They should get surgery done if that is what they want to do. (all gender neutral terms there  )
> 
> My main point is why gender dyphoria and body integrity identity disorder are classified differently. As far as I am concerned they seem to be fairly similar in how they manifest and how people who have these feel emotionally about it. Why is one a mental disorder where the other is not? It just seems to baffle me.


 as ive said before , transgender intervention is about improving the person life and giving them a body they can identify with (note improvement) , BIID is intentionally wanting to make yourself disabled - that is the difference (why would anyone want to make themselves disabled)

the improvement part is what makes the diagnosis different (even tho thats what you dont want to discuss , that is the answer to the question you are asking - why is one classed as a mental disorder and one not)


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

Quackerz said:


> It is already here. I am just holding out for Trans-object.
> 
> http://www.biid.org/


 At least that is being treated as it should though, an illness. It'll happen eventually though. Pandering and political correctness is more of a threat to the world than terrorism


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

Reading a few comments about the gender op etc improving the lives of these people, if 50 percent of post ops go on to commit suicide, how is this an improvement of their life?


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

benno_2010 said:


> Reading a few comments about the gender op etc improving the lives of these people, if 50 percent of post ops go on to commit suicide, how is this an improvement of their life?


 where does it say that the suicide rate is 50% ? , the only thing ive seen in this thread that mentions suicide rates is the wiki link (tho i may have missed another post ) , the wiki link states 41% of transgender, - not 41% post op - plus it was a relatively small U.S only study .


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> as ive said before , transgender intervention is about improving the person life and giving them a body they can identify with (note improvement) , BIID is intentionally wanting to make yourself disabled - that is the difference (why would anyone want to make themselves disabled)
> 
> the improvement part is what makes the diagnosis different (even tho thats what you dont want to discuss , that is the answer to the question you are asking - why is one classed as a mental disorder and one not)


 But they both have similar ideology behind them, I am aware of the obvious differences, what about the also obvious similarities?

Having their leg cut off could improve someone's life also. It is down to the individual and what they believe they identify themselves with. I see no difference between cutting their leg and cutting off their penis or breasts. Both surgery's would result in the same outcome (not physically of course), you would at the end of it, have someone who identifies more with their own body. I cannot see the difference between the two mental states apart from how they perceive themselves to be.


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

So how is cutting off a perfectly healthy leg going to improve someone's life?

transgender surgery is part of the transition of male to female from a physical viewpoint (or visa versa ) and serves a purpose


----------



## Shadow (Aug 20, 2004)

The way I see it is if the operation is carried out via the NHS then it could save money in the long term due to the prolonged mental health related treatment that would be needed otherwise.

More importantly the person involved gets a better chance of living a happier and therefore longer life.


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

aqualung said:


> where does it say that the suicide rate is 50% ? , the only thing ive seen in this thread that mentions suicide rates is the wiki link (tho i may have missed another post ) , the wiki link states 41% of transgender, - not 41% post op - plus it was a relatively small U.S only study .


 Iv found the study elsewhere - it does state 41%, I read a few different bits where it states nearly half so went with that. It was conducted by the American suicide prevention task force iirc who had/have access to all recorded suicides. 41 % is still a high number imo. I do need some clarification though - I thought they were referred to as trans gender after complete reassignment rather than having gender identity issues before?


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

benno_2010 said:


> Iv found the study elsewhere - it does state 41%, I read a few different bits where it states nearly half so went with that. It was conducted by the American suicide prevention task force iirc who had/have access to all recorded suicides. 41 % is still a high number imo. I do need some clarification though - I thought they were referred to as trans gender after complete reassignment rather than having gender identity issues before?


 someone can be refereed to as transgender regardless or pre or post OP - its an identity

i agree 41% is high regardless, however we dont know the reason - as i stated before im sure these people put up with a lot of stigma as well as difficultly getting hormone replacement or reassignment surgery - again as i stated before this could quiet easily turn it from an identity issue into a mental health one due to what they have to put up with , this means any mental health problems are the secondary cause of a primary problem that has not been addressed.

mental health hospitals have many people whereby the mental health problem is the secondary issue ,the classic one being drug psychosis (such as amphetamine psychosis) - the problem is that they usually do not treat the primary cause (the drug problem) - only try to manage the mental health one , when the person is released they go back to their previous drug habits and it goes round in a circle with MH admissions that are never addressing the true (primary) cause.


----------



## Hoddsy (Oct 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> leave them for us, you made your choice.


 Can't help that I'm such a p*ssy magnet mate. The more you ignore them the more they want it.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> So how is cutting off a perfectly healthy leg going to improve someone's life?
> 
> transgender surgery is part of the transition of male to female from a physical viewpoint (or visa versa ) and serves a purpose


 It's not really a transition though, you do not change into a female, you have your penis reconstructed to resemble a vagina, breast implants and hormonal therapy. This does not make you a woman. Being a woman does. That's the hard truth of it.

On a side note this is also something that is also beginning to impinge on women's (born a woman) rights.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Quackerz said:


> It's not really a transition though, you do not change into a female, you have your penis reconstructed to resemble a vagina, breast implants and hormonal therapy. This does not make you a woman. Being a woman does. That's the hard truth of it.
> 
> On a side note this is also something that is also beginning to impinge on women's (born a woman) rights.


 And the opposite for when women attempt to look like a man and end up looking like a strange looking manlet with barely any facial hair at 40yrs old. Don't get me wrong, people can do whatever they like but they never look 'right' or maybe they do and I don't notice those ones!!


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> It's not really a transition though, you do not change into a female, you have your penis reconstructed to resemble a vagina, breast implants and hormonal therapy. This does not make you a woman. Being a woman does. That's the hard truth of it.
> 
> On a side note this is also something that is also beginning to impinge on women's (born a woman) rights.


 I agree it's not a full transition , tho it's the closest they will get.

you seem to have forgotten to answer how cutting off a perfectly good leg will improve someone's life


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

aqualung said:


> I agree it's not a full transition , tho it's the closest they will get.
> 
> you seem to have forgotten to answer how cutting off a perfectly good leg will improve someone's life


 I refer to it in sense of how they feel mentally afterwards. Not from a physical standpoint.

Edit: How dare you use the winking Emoji against me.


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

BLUE(UK) said:


> And the opposite for when women attempt to look like a man and end up looking like a strange looking manlet with barely any facial hair at 40yrs old. Don't get me wrong, people can do whatever they like but they never look 'right' or maybe they do and I don't notice those ones!!


 Amelia Maltepe 

You wouldn't know until the last minute........


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Quackerz said:


> Amelia Maltepe [IMG alt="" data-emoticon="true"]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.3/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png&key=8e3e51f7e6e8d5c04b4cdd157298102a0c177e005ca66a52f85bb2264da886ef[/IMG]
> 
> You wouldn't know until the last minute........
> 
> View attachment 120781


 I was talking about the woman to a 'man'.

To be fair, the guy above would make my Penith look small. Look at that builders shovel hand!!


----------



## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I was talking about the woman to a 'man'.
> 
> To be fair, the guy above would make my Penith look small. Look at that builders shovel hand!!


 Should have read the post properly.

Fkn shovel hands LOL


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Quackerz said:


> Should have read the post properly.
> 
> Fkn shovel hands LOL


 That last post from me sounds bad though. I'm not an hater of them but I'd be disappointed to say the least if I'd been chatting one up as its not my thing at all.


----------



## spod (Mar 25, 2010)

aqualung said:


> I agree it's not a full transition , tho it's the closest they will get.
> 
> you seem to have forgotten to answer how cutting off a perfectly good leg will improve someone's life


 I see it a little differently you buddy - perhaps cutting off a perfectly good leg will improve someone's life in much the same way as cutting off a perfectly good penis.

You mentioned before that transgender surgery aimed at improvement, whereas sufferers of BIID wanted to disable themselves.

I don't think this is true at all. Trangender surgery appears to be more about change - from one gender to another - than 'improvement'. Yes, the person may feel 'improved' after surgery, as may an apotemnophile may feel 'improved' after the removal of a limb.

People with BIID would certainly not agree with your assertion that they want to disable themselves. They want to be an amputee - to rid themselves of what they consider to be a diseased or grotesquely ugly limb.

Transgenderism and apotemnophilia seem very comparable to me - traits of both include disgust and revulsion at the body they're currently in, and an overwhelming desire to change.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

BLUE(UK) said:


> That last post from me sounds bad though. I'm not an hater of them but I'd be disappointed to say the least if I'd been chatting one up as its not my thing at all.


 Long time ago, when I first visited Thailand & used to go to the Ladybars, I saw a phenomenal woman.

Silver Sheath dress, great figure. Bought her a drink, & after a few minutes she said:

"You know I Ladyboy"

I left shortly afterwards - alone!!


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

latblaster said:


> Long time ago, when I first visited Thailand & used to go to the Ladybars, I saw a phenomenal woman.
> 
> Silver Sheath dress, great figure. Bought her a drink, & after a few minutes she said:
> 
> ...


 With the 'I ladyboy' following ten yards behind.

It doesn't make you a bad person though, it's just not my thing although the Far East is one of the destinations I'll be going to sometime in the near future.


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## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

aqualung said:


> Fvcking quotation system fvckin up - re last paragraph, I know this only too well from first hand experience


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

latblaster said:


> Long time ago, when I first visited Thailand & used to go to the Ladybars, I saw a phenomenal woman.
> 
> Silver Sheath dress, great figure. Bought her a drink, & after a few minutes she said:
> 
> ...


 They still got a cook.. 

I'll go with the tits and a nice blowing


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

Yes it is but a 21st century one almost a fad , back in the day we wore skinny jeans to show our cocks off not as a fashion statement , plus putting on make up was bloody hard work. I dont even wax or shave or wash and i drag my missis by the hair up the pub every night BECAUSE im a real man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FULL on tarzan . Take an asprin(10xboxes) it will stop all them gay thoughts good luck and remember keep in touch with your self it works for me .


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

RUDESTEW said:


> Yes it is but a 21st century one almost a fad , back in the day we wore skinny jeans to show our cocks off not as a fashion statement , plus putting on make up was bloody hard work. I dont even wax or shave or wash and i drag my missis by the hair up the pub every night BECAUSE im a real man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FULL on tarzan . Take an asprin(10xboxes) it will stop all them gay thoughts good luck and remember keep in touch with your self it works for me .


 ?


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

Yes it is but a 21st century one

please ignore the rest of my post im a bit hormonal .


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

The biggest Empires F**ked up when they started wearing dresses ,The Romans & The Greeks


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@RUDESTEW

What prescribed medication are you on, Stewart?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

latblaster said:


> @RUDESTEW
> 
> What prescribed medication are you on, Stewart?


 This made me LOL :lol:


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

tbh its them codeine and naprorosyn thingys my back is in half ,no sleep ,no big brother tonight, bla bla bla soz .


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

RUDESTEW said:


> tbh its them codeine and naprorosyn thingys my back is in half ,no sleep ,no big brother tonight, bla bla bla soz .


 Intercostal Neuritis.

I'll send you a link later.


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

cool as im on the verge of ending it


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

RUDESTEW said:


> cool as im on the verge of ending it


 Ending what, the Internet?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

RUDESTEW said:


> cool as im on the verge of ending it


 I doubt it.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

spod said:


> I see it a little differently you buddy - perhaps cutting off a perfectly good leg will improve someone's life in much the same way as cutting off a perfectly good penis.
> 
> You mentioned before that transgender surgery aimed at improvement, whereas sufferers of BIID wanted to disable themselves.
> 
> ...


 the original question was regarding why one is classed as a mental illness and one is not , whether someone wants to make themselves disabled or not is a moot point asthey will make themselves disabled is probably the difference between one being classed as a mental illness and one not - i am talking about a professionals medical viewpoint - not the persons.

to the professional transgender reassignment has to take place if the person wants to 'become' male or female (note become is in brackets because we all know its not a full transition - it is the closest they will get and needs to happen if the person has fully accepted the other gender- it will not be disabling them )

the person wanting their leg removed will make themselves disabled - whether they themselves look at it this way or not .

one of the main rules of a doctor is to first do no harm.

i can see your point regarding the BIID person wanting to remove what they consider to be an unwanted appendage , however the medical community view it differently afaik .


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

You wouldn't even be asking this question if it were not for the Zionist Jewish owned mainstream media pushing this kind of Marxist degeneracy.

Some sicko parents are dressing their little boys in girls clothes on purpose because they think it's "progressive" and doctors are prescribing estrogen to little boys who act feminine. If we truly cared about people, we would prescribe them the hormone for their birth sex as "transgenderism" is a mental disorder: a lack of testosterone or estrogen in males and females.

Chopping your dick and balls off guarantees you will never have a normal life and will never have your own family. It's genetic suicide for confused *****.


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

GCMAX said:


> You wouldn't even be asking this question if it were not for the *Zionist Jewish owned mainstream media pushing this kind of Marxist degeneracy.*
> 
> Some sicko parents are dressing their little boys in girls clothes on purpose because they think it's "progressive" and doctors are prescribing estrogen to little boys who act feminine. If we truly cared about people, we would prescribe them the hormone for their birth sex as "transgenderism" is a mental disorder: a lack of testosterone or estrogen in males and females.
> 
> Chopping your dick and balls off guarantees you will never have a normal life and will never have your own family. It's genetic suicide for confused *****.


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> My main point is why gender dyphoria and body integrity identity disorder are classified differently. As far as I am concerned they seem to be fairly similar in how they manifest and how people who have these feel emotionally about it. Why is one a mental disorder where the other is not? It just seems to baffle me.


 Hi, I'm here to inject some actual knowledge of Biology into this weeping canker sore of a thread 

A person feeling they are in the wrong physical body and a person feeling that their left leg doesn't belong on their body are totally incomparable.

Most human beings naturally occur in one of two polar forms - male and female. The two forms are at either end of a hormonal continuum, the development of the human foetus relies on a complex interplay between genetic makeup and hormonal influence. All foetuses are physically identical until around 8 weeks, regardless of their genetic makeup. Physical sex and perceived gender are linked but not dependent upon one another.

Human beings don't naturally occur in one legged or two legged forms. There is no hormonal continuum between the development of one or two legs. There is no observable developmental/genetic/hormonal link between people who feel like they should only have one leg.

Some people who are transgender will have had ambigious genitalia at birth; medical history reveals an obsession with making things fit into "black or white" categories. Intersexed newborns were assigned sexes based on the whims of the surgeons at the time and had bits lopped off if they didn't "fit".



















http://www.gendertree.com/When%20Does%20it%20Happen.htm


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Lotte said:


> Hi, I'm here to inject some actual knowledge of Biology into this weeping canker sore of a thread
> 
> A person feeling they are in the wrong physical body and a person feeling that their left leg doesn't belong on their body are totally incomparable.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for posting this, after researching I have been made aware of how much more common this is than first thought. I was aware of it but not to actual extent.

Saying that my original post was more in reference to either a man or woman (not intersexed) identifying themselves with the opposite sex. I personally perceive this to be perfectly comparable with the idea of BIID. I would consider them almost identical mental states.


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Saying that my original post was more in reference to either a man or woman (not intersexed) identifying themselves with the opposite sex. I personally perceive this to be perfectly comparable with the idea of BIID. I would consider them almost identical mental states.


 *facepalm* I give up then


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Lotte said:


> Lotte said:
> 
> 
> > *facepalm* I give up then


 That's because now you know what I am referencing and intersexed children have been taken out of the equation you have no answer.


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> That's because now you know what I am referencing and intersexed children have been taken out of the equation you have no answer.


 Lol no, it's clear you just don't understand the Biology. You have decided your opinion on this topic while totally uninformed about it, so no one here can get through to you.

The hormonal/genetic interplay that creates a continuum of physical sex organs also develops the parts of our brain that will later play a role in our innate sense of gender.

When something goes a bit wrong in this area of development you can end up with;

People whose gender matches their genetics but their physical sex doesn't.

Peope whose physical sex matches their genetics but their gender doesn't.

People whose physical sex and gender do not match their genetics.

People who have chimaeric/mosaic DNA in different parts of their body and therefore can have any combination of physical/psychological development.

And every wild combination in between.

If if you can accept the truth of intersex you will have to accept that transgender is a real thing too.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Lotte said:


> Lol no, it's clear you just don't understand the Biology. You have decided your opinion on this topic while totally uninformed about it, so no one here can get through to you.
> 
> The hormonal/genetic interplay that creates a continuum of physical sex organs also develops the parts of our brain that will later play a role in our innate sense of gender.
> 
> ...


 Even after surgery they will still not be either a man or a woman. They will be intersexed. To state that someone is Trans-anything is to state they are transitioning into something else, which they are not, they are altering their appearance to suit their image of how they perceive themselves to be.

As for people of one sex that identify themselves with another please refer to the rest of this thread.


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## Lotte (Feb 10, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Even after surgery they will still not be either a man or a woman. They will be intersexed. To state that someone is Trans-anything is to state they are transitioning into something else, which they are not, they are altering their appearance to suit their image of how they perceive themselves to be.
> 
> As for people of one sex that identify themselves with another please refer to the rest of this thread.


 Your reply doesn't address the post you quoted?

Nothing in life is truly black and white. Open your mind.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Lotte said:


> Lol no, it's clear you just don't understand the Biology. You have decided your opinion on this topic while totally uninformed about it, so no one here can get through to you.
> 
> The hormonal/genetic interplay that creates a continuum of physical sex organs also develops the parts of our brain that will later play a role in our innate sense of gender.
> 
> ...





Lotte said:


> Your reply doesn't address the post you quoted?
> 
> Nothing in life is truly black and white. Open your mind.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Lotte said:


> Your reply doesn't address the post you quoted?
> 
> *Nothing in life is truly black and white*. Open your mind.


 black and white is.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MissMartinez said:


> So will someone who has a sex change op. They have disables themselves from having children.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MissMartinez said:


> I'm going to presume that's photoshop and not real!


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Beatie


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

MissMartinez said:


> So will someone who has a sex change op. They have disabled themselves from having children.


 and when did not being able to have children mean you will need either a prosthetic limb or a wheelchair? (this brings in the argument of burden to society on a financial level, although i dont agree with it im sure its taken into consideration ) - afaik not being able to have children is not classed as a disability under UK law - having a missing leg is.

if the transgender person feels they may want children in the future sperm/eggs can be frozen and used at a later date , ive not looked at the latest transplant techniques but i dont think they are routinely transplanting legs these days.


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