# How dangerous is DNP, really?



## mjl1990

I have been reading a lot about DNP recently but everything I've read seems to suggest it's perfectly fine and even somewhat healthy (cancer prevention, effects on insulin sensitivity) at a moderate dose.

Surely given all the media furore (read: 'scaremongering') over this drug there must be some negative sides.

Other than temporary lethargy, water retention and heat - what sides can a user expect on say, 200mcg per day. Anyone here had an adverse reaction? Long term effects?

Also is it possible to die off a low dose? I have seen Daily Mail articles (lol) where people SUPPOSEDLY died off one pill. Is this possible?

Trying to make an informed decision here but everything on here seems almost too positive & normally when things seem too good to be true, they are.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey

In for answers, I hate the heat tho so would probably end up killing someone on it


----------



## RRSUK

You'd need a lot more than 200mcg!

But a dose of 250mg is safe and I'd say personally more than sufficient.

I'd say its highly unlikely to die of a low dose, unless you have some strange adverse reaction.

Deaths come from people taking it and upping dosage far too quick. Then essentially ODing. You need to wait at least a week before upping dosage due to long half life. (36 hours)

The reason its not a regulated med is that the needed dose is so close to the lethal dose.

But it is being tested now for a treatment for diabetes. All be it a reformulated low dose longer half life.

As with most things it is a dangerous compound when used irresponsibly.

But its great at what it does and works wonders for 15+% body fat.


----------



## 66983

Lowest recorded lethal dosage amount for DNP

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3550200/

Ingestion is currently the most common route of exposure to the drug leading to death. The lowest published lethal human oral dose of DNP is 4.3 mg/kg [76]; the doses reported in the published acute and suicidal fatalities range from 2.8 g to an estimated 5 g. The highest reported dose taken in acute overdose associated with survival was a woman who took 2.4 g with no complications [70].

I have no context for "lowest published lethal human oral dose" in that I don't know how rare this is. However, if you want to be safe, keep your dosages under 4mg/kg. For most men here this means 250mg capsules are okay, but depending on your weight this could very well be in the danger zone for you.

Note that here http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/65133.htm

you find that Lethal doses for orally ingested 2.4-dinitrophenol in humans have been reported to be 14 to 43 mg/kg.

which would be well above a gram for most.

Anything above 14mg/kg has a good likelihood of killing you. If you keep your dosage below 4 mg/kg, you should be safe, because this would be the lowest lethal dosage ever recorded and that isn't likely.


----------



## RRSUK

Just to add to @Sparkey I should imagine his quoted dosages are the accumulative ones?

That I know he has has a handy chart he can post for clarity. :thumbup1:

EDIT

Actually after re reading I think they reference daily doses. Apologies...


----------



## 66983




----------



## JohhnyC

i researched this topic to death (excuse the pun) before I used it.

You have 3 main issues with DNP in my view

1) the user is a dumb f'ck. We have already seen several on this site who do zero research, take it and only *then* start asking questions or upping dosage without knowing the consequences. People need to understand half life of a drug and the ability to build up in your system, Effective dose and lethal dose with is far too close for comfort with DNP! And whats more, these figures are for a 50% percentile and 95% per of the population, e.g. 95% of the population will survive a dose of X say but that also means 5% won't and you don't want to be playing Russian roulette with this stuff.

2) The ambient temperature makes a huge difference with DNP. A 10 degree rise in temperature and LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of the population) can drop quite quickly. You don't want to be in a situation where you can't cool down. I found that myself, in April there was a 5-7 degree jump in temperature during the time I was using it and it was very noticeable!

3) Its an unlicensed drug and zero quality control so you really need to play it safe and start slowly. Just because you assume you are taking 250mg or 500mg that could be cut wrong. There was a guy i here (Can't think of his name) and he opened the 250mg caps and used peanut butter to seal the end. Wanted to play it safe. Smart idea actually

My advice is that read the forums, air on the side of caution, if it's performance is underwhelming, well you can always have another run at it down the line


----------



## 66983

No matter how carefull there is always the chance someone could have a severe allergic reaction to DNP.

The worst situation would be if someone just got hold of some without being able to access the knowledge needed to stay safe.

For instance, taking too many in the initial stages or not drinking enough.

In my opinion if you stay at a maximum of 250mg per day, drink at least 3 litres water and take electrolytes you'll be fine.

Quote:

The drug was discontinued for medical use in 1938 because the FDA stated that the ED50 (Effective dose for 50% of the population), is too close to the LD50 (Lethal dose for 50% of the population) - So whereas say two tablets of Paracetamol will 'cure' you, but thirty could kill you; DNP has much smaller boundaries - One tablet of DNP (125mg/250mg) will 'cure' you, but only six could kill you - (This is five times less than Paracetamol!) The LD50 for DNP is 1200mg.

There have been attempts to bring back DNP as a prescription drug for obesity, but it has been declined for the reasons above. However, the mechanism of action is deemed safe, it's just the small boundaries that are to be removed before DNP comes back for medicinal use. Researchers are trying to find a way to put a 'limit' on DNP's effects, so for example - Taking 2000mg of DNP now will kill you, but researchers are trying to find a way so even if the patient takes 2000mg, it will do no more than say 250mg.

https://bodymaxing.com/2016/10/20/dnp/


----------



## mjl1990

Sparkey said:


> Lowest recorded lethal dosage amount for DNP
> 
> www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3550200/
> 
> Ingestion is currently the most common route of exposure to the drug leading to death. The lowest published lethal human oral dose of DNP is 4.3 mg/kg [76]; the doses reported in the published acute and suicidal fatalities range from 2.8 g to an estimated 5 g. The highest reported dose taken in acute overdose associated with survival was a woman who took 2.4 g with no complications [70].
> 
> I have no context for "lowest published lethal human oral dose" in that I don't know how rare this is. However, if you want to be safe, keep your dosages under 4mg/kg. For most men here this means 250mg capsules are okay, but depending on your weight this could very well be in the danger zone for you.
> 
> Note that here http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/65133.htm
> 
> you find that Lethal doses for orally ingested 2.4-dinitrophenol in humans have been reported to be 14 to 43 mg/kg.
> 
> which would be well above a gram for most.
> 
> Anything above 14mg/kg has a good likelihood of killing you. If you keep your dosage below 4 mg/kg, you should be safe, because this would be the lowest lethal dosage ever recorded and that isn't likely.


 So 378mcg would match the lowest recorded recorded fatal dose, if it were to kill me. A pretty scary thought considering how many guys here I see routinely taking upwards of 500mcg per day.

If someone were to suffer a severe allergic reaction surely treatment would be no different to someone suffering a severe allergic reaction to anything else? Rather than when you take too much DNP and there is simply no antidote.


----------



## 66983

mjl1990 said:


> So 378mcg would match the lowest recorded recorded fatal dose, if it were to kill me. A pretty scary thought considering how many guys here I see routinely taking upwards of 500mcg per day.
> 
> If someone were to suffer a severe allergic reaction surely treatment would be no different to someone suffering a severe allergic reaction to anything else? Rather than when you take too much DNP and there is simply no antidote.


 Personally I have done 500mcg a day without any problems, it's personal choice, if you are not sure, don't take it.

Last year I cut naturally, and dropped from 15.3 stone to 13st 6 in 12 weeks with just diet and cardio.

This year I cut using DNP,T3,Clen,Yohimbine, diet and cardio and whilst at the moment I am leaner and lower in weight the end result is ultimately the same.

I monitored the speed difference to a specific weight on both DNP and natural.

Natty cut: 15st 0.5lbs - 13st 11lbs took 8 weeks and 6 days.

DNP/T3 cut 15st 0.5lbs to 13st 11lbs took 4 weeks 3 days (18 day DNP run the rest was just calorie deficit and cardio).

If someone was on a time limit and needed to get the weight off as quickly as possible (a last minute holiday etc) then DNP is amazing at what it does.

If no time limit I would cut naturally.


----------



## PSevens2017

JohhnyC said:


> i researched this topic to death (excuse the pun) before I used it.
> 
> You have 3 main issues with DNP in my view
> 
> 1) the user is a dumb f'ck. We have already seen several on this site who do zero research, take it and only *then* start asking questions or upping dosage without knowing the consequences. People need to understand half life of a drug and the ability to build up in your system, Effective dose and lethal dose with is far too close for comfort with DNP! And whats more, these figures are for a 50% percentile and 95% per of the population, e.g. 95% of the population will survive a dose of X say but that also means 5% won't and you don't want to be playing Russian roulette with this stuff.
> 
> 2) The ambient temperature makes a huge difference with DNP. A 10 degree rise in temperature and LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of the population) can drop quite quickly. You don't want to be in a situation where you can't cool down. I found that myself, in April there was a 5-7 degree jump in temperature during the time I was using it and it was very noticeable!
> 
> 3) Its an unlicensed drug and zero quality control so you really need to play it safe and start slowly. Just because you assume you are taking 250mg or 500mg that could be cut wrong. There was a guy i here (Can't think of his name) and *he opened the 250mg caps and used peanut butter to seal the end. Wanted to play it safe. Smart idea actually *
> 
> My advice is that read the forums, air on the side of caution, if it's performance is underwhelming, well you can always have another run at it down the line


 What do you mean by this? He was smart because he cut what was supposed to be 250 (could've been weighed out incorrectly and contained much more) dose in half and started with a smaller dose?

It's the peanut butter bit that's thrown me.


----------



## 66983

PSevens2017 said:


> What do you mean by this? He was smart because he cut what was supposed to be 250 (could've been weighed out incorrectly and contained much more) dose in half and started with a smaller dose?
> 
> It's the peanut butter bit that's thrown me.


 once you split the cap there is nothing to seal it, the peanut butter on the end seals the cap so you can down it without getting the powder in your mouth.


----------



## Fina

mcg/mg - learn the difference would be a helpful start, its no wonder people have problems when you don't even understand that...


----------



## JohhnyC

PSevens2017 said:


> What do you mean by this? *He was smart because he cut what was supposed to be 250 (could've been weighed out incorrectly and contained much more) dose in half and started with a smaller dose? *
> 
> It's the peanut butter bit that's thrown me.


 yes but you don't know that so his method can only have two possible outcomes,

(a) end up taking exact same amount as the original capsule or

(b) take less that the full amount

Its simple logic, hence being smart

And in another post I see some nitwit decides to front load DNP


----------



## PSevens2017

JohhnyC said:


> yes but you don't know that so his method can only have two possible outcomes,
> 
> (a) end up taking exact same amount as the original capsule or
> 
> (b) take less that the full amount
> 
> Its simple logic, hence being smart
> 
> And in another post I see some nitwit decides to front load DNP


 Don't see anything wrong with being cautious when it comes to dnp. I was going to take this approach anyway. Don't want sudden sweat episodes at work. I work physically close with people in the sporting environment.


----------



## mjl1990

Fina said:


> mcg/mg - learn the difference would be a helpful start, its no wonder people have problems when you don't even understand that...


 Aimed at who exactly?

Clearly stated mcg in OP.

And I doubt these 'people' are measuring their own doses or taking 1,000 250mcg pills instead of 1.


----------



## musclebubble

mjl1990 said:


> I have been reading a lot about DNP recently but everything I've read seems to suggest it's perfectly fine and even somewhat healthy (cancer prevention, effects on insulin sensitivity) at a moderate dose.
> 
> Surely given all the media furore (read: 'scaremongering') over this drug there must be some negative sides.
> 
> Other than temporary lethargy, water retention and heat - what sides can a user expect on say, 200mcg per day. Anyone here had an adverse reaction? Long term effects?
> 
> Also is it possible to die off a low dose? I have seen Daily Mail articles (lol) where people SUPPOSEDLY died off one pill. Is this possible?
> 
> Trying to make an informed decision here but everything on here seems almost too positive & normally when things seem too good to be true, they are.


 It's poison, unhealthy & unnecessary.






Try and use least number of toxic substances so GOD forbid you don't end up in hospital for something totally stupid! Look what Lee says in the video. He did plenty of cardio to get in shape, not rat poison


----------



## nWo

Sparkey said:


> I monitored the speed difference to a specific weight on both DNP and natural.
> 
> Natty cut: 15st 0.5lbs - 13st 11lbs took 8 weeks and 6 days.
> 
> DNP/T3 cut 15st 0.5lbs to 13st 11lbs took 4 weeks 3 days (18 day DNP run the rest was just calorie deficit and cardio).


 Also just to throw in my two pennies, I've gone inbetween what are basically both ends of the scale here and just cut on T3 and testosterone. Lost about 3 stone in 10 weeks on that, running a heavy deficit (I cut down to 2000 calories a day and the T3 had my TDEE up at 3500 a day or more), and retained muscle well.


----------



## nWo

musclebubble said:


> It's poison, unhealthy & unnecessary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try and use least number of toxic substances so GOD forbid you don't end up in hospital for something totally stupid! Look what Lee says in the video. He did plenty of cardio to get in shape, not rat poison


 When you look at how quickly Lee typically lost weight to get into shape for contests, I think he's talking out of his arse on this one, and I don't blame him. He's the type of guy that normally just tells everything like it is and is always truthful, but he also realises that a lot of people watch his channel so when it comes to talking about drugs, he knows that people are gonna follow his advice and do what he did, though probably f**k it up through lack of research and then they're up s**t creek. So there's no way he's going to condone using DNP.

Lots of things are considered "poisons". Have you ever consumed alcohol, for example? Alcohol is a poison. Lots of medications are technically poisonous, particularly vaccines - it's just that the doses used aren't poisonous enough to be dangerous. Same with DNP, it's only poisonous on an unsafe level when you use too much.

Look at all the people that have died using DNP. Pretty much all of them were irresponsible with their use and used silly doses. If you follow guidelines and start with low doses, you'll be fine. I always say start very low, and don't be tempted to up the dose within the same cycle if you're not feeling it working. If you're not tolerating a certain dose well, chances are it's going to get dangerous if you increase it further.


----------



## musclebubble

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> When you look at how quickly Lee typically lost weight to get into shape for contests, I think he's talking out of his arse on this one, and I don't blame him. He's the type of guy that normally just tells everything like it is and is always truthful, but he also realises that a lot of people watch his channel so when it comes to talking about drugs, he knows that people are gonna follow his advice and do what he did, though probably f**k it up through lack of research and then they're up s**t creek. So there's no way he's going to condone using DNP.
> 
> Lots of things are considered "poisons". Have you ever consumed alcohol, for example? Alcohol is a poison. Lots of medications are technically poisonous, particularly vaccines - it's just that the doses used aren't poisonous enough to be dangerous. Same with DNP, it's only poisonous on an unsafe level when you use too much.
> 
> Look at all the people that have died using DNP. Pretty much all of them were irresponsible with their use and used silly doses. If you follow guidelines and start with low doses, you'll be fine. I always say start very low, and don't be tempted to up the dose within the same cycle if you're not feeling it working. If you're not tolerating a certain dose well, chances are it's going to get dangerous if you increase it further.


 I'm sorry but there is no case FOR DNP! Yes many thing abused can be harmful for the body, but certain compounds are far more toxic, like the Pesticide DNP. It's used in Sulphur Dyes, Wood preservatives, explosives. DNP can lead to the formation of cataracts and skin lesions and has caused effects on the bone marrow, central nervous system, and cardiovascular system. All these ignorant sheep see a fad product and they all follow suit.


----------



## 66983

Just looked and TM are now stocking 50 x 125mg tabs (new product).


----------



## JohhnyC

musclebubble said:


> I'm sorry but there is no case FOR DNP! Yes many thing abused can be harmful for the body, but certain compounds are far more toxic, like the Pesticide DNP. It's used in Sulphur Dyes, Wood preservatives, explosives. DNP can lead to the formation of cataracts and skin lesions and has caused effects on the bone marrow, central nervous system, and cardiovascular system. *All these ignorant sheep see a fad product and they all follow suit. *


 As with many posts on here you have just quoted total b#x from what you have read on the web. Links to MEDICAL journals, not Wikipedia or BB websites. Did you actually read the historical medical notes from DNP deaths and hospitalisation cases?

And saying things like its use in explosives is just sensationalism and shows you can't use your own thought process to analysis the product

For example the study of cataracts in 1936 was found that on average people consumed DNP for 11 months and a total dosage of 73mg. The average run now is 250mg for 2 or 3 weeks, thats ~5mg total. A long way off the original usage

This is the whole problem with these type of drugs and discussions thereof. People like you sensationalise everything and haven't done a shred of research to back up what you say. So don't you think your statement of "*All these ignorant sheep see a fad product and they all follow suit. *" is somewhat ironic?


----------



## Tricky

musclebubble said:


> I'm sorry but there is no case FOR DNP! Yes many thing abused can be harmful for the body, but certain compounds are far more toxic, like the Pesticide DNP. It's used in Sulphur Dyes, Wood preservatives, explosives. DNP can lead to the formation of cataracts and skin lesions and has caused effects on the bone marrow, central nervous system, and cardiovascular system. All these ignorant sheep see a fad product and they all follow suit.


 Dead on mate carry on spouting your shite this is UKM not Bb.com


----------



## Tricky

JohhnyC said:


> As with many posts on here you have just quoted total b#x from what you have read on the web. Links to MEDICAL journals, not Wikipedia or BB websites. Did you actually read the historical medical notes from DNP deaths and hospitalisation cases?
> 
> And saying things like its use in explosives is just sensationalism and shows you can't use your own thought process to analysis the product
> 
> For example the study of cataracts in 1936 was found that on average people consumed DNP for 11 months and a total dosage of 73mg. The average run now is 250mg for 2 or 3 weeks, thats ~5mg total. A long way off the original usage
> 
> This is the whole problem with these type of drugs and discussions thereof. People like you sensationalise everything and haven't done a shred of research to back up what you say. So don't you think your statement of "*All these ignorant sheep see a fad product and they all follow suit. *" is somewhat ironic?


 Do not waste your time he is a moron, I had typed out a long response to his bullshit statement but then based on previous threads and posts of his I knew it was a lost cause so choose to delete it.


----------



## musclebubble

JohhnyC said:


> As with many posts on here you have just quoted total b#x from what you have read on the web. Links to MEDICAL journals, not Wikipedia or BB websites. Did you actually read the historical medical notes from DNP deaths and hospitalisation cases?
> 
> And saying things like its use in explosives is just sensationalism and shows you can't use your own thought process to analysis the product
> 
> For example the study of cataracts in 1936 was found that on average people consumed DNP for 11 months and a total dosage of 73mg. The average run now is 250mg for 2 or 3 weeks, thats ~5mg total. A long way off the original usage
> 
> This is the whole problem with these type of drugs and discussions thereof. People like you sensationalise everything and haven't done a shred of research to back up what you say. So don't you think your statement of "*All these ignorant sheep see a fad product and they all follow suit. *" is somewhat ironic?


 Good luck use them, don't come crying GOD forbid you suffer multiple organ damage/failure and end up in hospital. Why would you want to use DNP anyway for? No other methods to get in shape? When you get older, you and others alike will looks back in say to yourself "what the f was i doing"?! "it was so stupid"


----------



## musclebubble

Tricky said:


> Do not waste your time he is a moron, I had typed out a long response to his bullshit statement but then based on previous threads and posts of his I knew it was a lost cause so choose to delete it.


 You're too ignorant, kid. You will learn one day when it's too late, and then remember "i told you so"


----------



## Tricky

musclebubble said:


> You're too ignorant, kid. You will learn one day when it's too late, and then remember "i told you so"


 But rich calling some ignorant when you state all Chinese stuff is crap and you wouldn't own any


----------



## JohhnyC

musclebubble said:


> Good luck use them, don't come crying GOD forbid you suffer multiple organ damage/failure and end up in hospital. Why would you want to use DNP anyway for? No other methods to get in shape? When you get older, you and others alike will looks back in say to yourself "what the f was i doing"?! "it was so stupid"


 seriously what age are you 8?

The people you are talking to are middle aged and have decades of experience. And you still haven't even noted that the stuff you are reading about and professing to be an expert on is totally unwarranted even though I pointed it out to you earlier.


----------



## musclebubble

JohhnyC said:


> seriously what age are you 8?
> 
> *The people you are talking to are middle aged *and have decades of experience. And you still haven't even noted that the stuff you are reading about and professing to be an expert on is totally unwarranted even though I pointed it out to you earlier.


 Name 5 people middle aged out of the all the members? 45-65, that also condone DNP usage.


----------



## JohhnyC

musclebubble said:


> Name 5 people *middle aged *out of the all the members? *45-65*, that also condone DNP usage.


 you really are dumb! 45-65 so they should live to 90 - 130?


----------



## musclebubble

JohhnyC said:


> you really are dumb! 45-65 so they should live to 90 - 130?


 HAHAHAHA!!! What? You tried to comeback with someone telling, but it ended up a Big fail 

It's clear what i'm dealing with you. My dog has a higher IQ (much much higher)


----------



## Fina

mjl1990 said:


> Aimed at who exactly?
> 
> Clearly stated mcg in OP.
> 
> And I doubt these 'people' are measuring their own doses or taking 1,000 250mcg pills instead of 1.


 You for one. You want to take 0.2mg per day? Crack on lad, I don't think you'll experience too many sides.....


----------



## mjl1990

Fina said:


> You for one. You want to take 0.2mg per day? Crack on lad, I don't think you'll experience too many sides.....


 I wouldn't measure my own fu**ing DNP powder would I, so it makes absolutely no difference.

Its also hypothetical, Im not planning a cycle and the entire point of the thread is that I don't know enough about it to run one. So to come in here and start moaning that I don't know enough about the stuff is plain retarded.


----------



## Fina

Calling someone retarded when you've apparantly read a lot and asking if 200mcg is a safe dose.....


----------



## Tricky

musclebubble said:


> Name 5 people middle aged out of the all the members? 45-65, that also condone DNP usage.


 65 is middle aged? Now you are a moron


----------



## RRSUK

Tricky said:


> 65 is middle aged? *Now you are a moron *


 Don't think that was ever in question... :whistling:


----------



## BSHeavyIndustries

mjl1990 said:


> I have been reading a lot about DNP recently but everything I've read seems to suggest it's perfectly fine and even somewhat healthy (cancer prevention, effects on insulin sensitivity) at a moderate dose.
> 
> Surely given all the media furore (read: 'scaremongering') over this drug there must be some negative sides.
> 
> Other than temporary lethargy, water retention and heat - what sides can a user expect on say, 200mcg per day. Anyone here had an adverse reaction? Long term effects?
> 
> Also is it possible to die off a low dose? I have seen Daily Mail articles (lol) where people SUPPOSEDLY died off one pill. Is this possible?
> 
> Trying to make an informed decision here but everything on here seems almost too positive & normally when things seem too good to be true, they are.


 DNP is carcinogenic, this has been proven multiple times over in studies with rats although dosages given were for prolonged periods of time and the uptake in rats is different to humans. All phenols are. The question is, is it so carcinogenic that it should be avoided entirely? IMO no, 2,4 DNP has passed the Ames test, in my mind that would indicate it would take a prolonged and heavy exposure to cause cancer. Or you could just be plain unlucky.

You should expect all of the sides you mentione, there is the possibility of severe allergic reactions (~10% of users report severe hives and rashes) and also nerve damage. The nerve damage should only be temporary if the DNP is halted immediately. Again, the longer the exposure, the worse the damage. If you notice numbness in your fingers / toes or pins and needles, stop it straight away.

It is possible however highly unlikely, you want to check interactions with existing medications and conditions. With an LD50 of around 1200mg it's highly unlikely they died from a single pill.

Just be informed of the mechanism of the chemical you're taking, I would highly recommend you look for papers regarding its usage and don't rely on anybody on a forum to guide you, even me.

I have used DNP and found it to be quite an amazing chemical for dropping weight, so have many others, it's really down to you if you're happy to accept the level of associated risk.


----------



## Todai

musclebubble said:


> Good luck use them, don't come crying GOD forbid you suffer multiple organ damage/failure and end up in hospital. Why would you want to use DNP anyway for? No other methods to get in shape? When you get older, you and others alike will looks back in say to yourself "what the f was i doing"?! "it was so stupid"


 Because it's really good for fat loss


----------



## Todai

Here's my account

250 - is a bit warm. Increased sweet in the gym, cardio is a bit tougher, yellow pee on occasions

500 - sweaty mess, especially night trying to sleep plus all of the above, walking uphill with the dogs was the hardest part

I did one day at 750 ( was my final day) it resulted in me being in a cold bath 3 times during the night.

the fat loss on those cycles of DNP was worth it for me.


----------



## Lifesizepenguin

Im out for using DNP, dont like the possible side effects and it seems relatively bad for you in a transient way.

However, you arent going to drop dead from 250mcg.

Not against others using it responsibly, im just not stepping on stage anytime soon so dont see why a stim and DNP free cut isnt fine for the average person like myself.


----------



## AncientOldBloke

todai said:


> Here's my account
> 
> 250 - is a bit warm. Increased sweet in the gym, cardio is a bit tougher, yellow pee on occasions
> 
> 500 - sweaty mess, especially night trying to sleep plus all of the above, walking uphill with the dogs was the hardest part
> 
> I did one day at 750 ( was my final day) it resulted in me being in a cold bath 3 times during the night.
> 
> the fat loss on those cycles of DNP was worth it for me.


 Probably why the new TM is 125mg.

So people take 3 caps a day.


----------



## Todai

AncientOldBloke said:


> Probably why the new TM is 125mg.
> 
> So people take 3 caps a day.


 Yeh I think 3 a day would be optimal for fat loss vs side effects


----------



## AncientOldBloke

For me yes


----------

