# Whos made the change from bodybuilding to strength?



## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

Whos made the change to strength style routines? An anything you have noticed? Body shape etc.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

I did in January! Only difference is I'm enjoying my training and I need to eat a lot more to keep my weight up! Only problem I've found is working on bar speed.


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

jonnym4 said:


> I did in January! Only difference is I'm enjoying my training and I need to eat a lot more to keep my weight up! Only problem I've found is working on bar speed.


Did you still do any bodybuilding exercises? Curls, side laterals etc?


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

I have never done BB exercises - I have only ever done 'strength training' and consider myself to have a reasonably well balanced physique for my size

Bench, squat, deadlift, ohp, row, chin, and assistance only


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Dabbled with BB routines once or twice but couldn't resist the lure back to the barbell


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

tomo8 said:


> Did you still do any bodybuilding exercises? Curls, side laterals etc?


I still do curls after bench as it helps with my elbow pain I sometimes get but other than that I just do rows and pull-ups as accessory


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

SK50 said:


> I have never done BB exercises - I have only ever done 'strength training' and consider myself to have a reasonably well balanced physique for my size
> 
> Bench, squat, deadlift, ohp, row, chin, and assistance only


Thats the reasurring answer im looking for! I want to do strength routines but worry i will loose my shape without isolation exercises like curls an side laterals.

An alot of the strength routines say to limit the accessory work.

Any reccomendation for a good strength routine for natty?


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

tomo8 said:


> Thats the reasurring answer im looking for! I want to do strength routines but worry i will loose my shape without isolation exercises like curls an side laterals.
> 
> An alot of the strength routines say to limit the accessory work.
> 
> Any reccomendation for a good strength routine for natty?


You won't lose any shape. Unless, perhaps, you're a fully developed competitive bodybuilder who has managed to specifically develop significant amounts of muscle from such isolation movements.

Overhead press works the full shoulder complex in its entirety - my opinion may sound off the wall to some, but are you really going to get a lot more out of doing side laterals with 15kg after overhead pressing 100kg for reps? Or curls with 40kg after chinning your bodyweight + 20kg for reps? Probably not (IMO, of course)

Accessory work should only be used for:

1) To help you gain more poundage in the primary movements (e.g. rack pulls if your DL lockout is weak)

2) Prehab / rehab (e.g. rotator cuff movements)

The routine selection depends on how advanced you are. If beginner level, I would suggest Starting Strength (Mark Rippetoe) or similar, if intermediate my personal choice would be Wendler's 531


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

I wanted to add the above to avoid any misunderstanding:

I am not suggesting that I think that isolation movements are useless, but what I mean is that you can absolutely build a high quality and well balanced physique with a strength routine alone (and no isolation whatsoever). And, in fact, I would even suggest that a strength routine is the most efficient method to build the foundations for advanced bodybuilding where focusing on specific muscle groups with isolation actually has a purpose.


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

SK50 said:


> I wanted to add the above to avoid any misunderstanding:
> 
> I am not suggesting that I think that isolation movements are useless, but what I mean is that you can absolutely build a high quality and well balanced physique with a strength routine alone (and no isolation whatsoever). And, in fact, I would even suggest that a strength routine is the most efficient method to build the foundations for advanced bodybuilding where focusing on specific muscle groups with isolation actually has a purpose.


What ypur saying is true an most proably right, not sure what determines if im intermediate or advanced.

Ive downloaded the 531 ebook an the juggernaut method 2.0 so will give one of them ago.

Cheers.


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

SK50 said:


> I have never done BB exercises - I have only ever done 'strength training' and consider myself to have a reasonably well balanced physique for my size
> 
> Bench, squat, deadlift, ohp, row, chin, and assistance only


The only exercises anyone ever needs IMO.

I also like to add dips and power cleans in there.


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

SK50 said:


> I have never done BB exercises - I have only ever done 'strength training' and consider myself to have a reasonably well balanced physique for my size
> 
> Bench, squat, deadlift, ohp, row, chin, and assistance only


Ohp one of the best exercises for shoulders... If done correctly..


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## Jason88 (Mar 24, 2013)

I moved over to strength based routines last year after messing around with 8/12 rep body building style routines.

Best choice ive made im gaining more muscle then before, which was a surprise.

Strength has increased which was my main reason to change over.

The sense of achievement beating your previous 1-5 Rep maxes is awsome.

The progression is alot easier for me to see so i find it alot more enjoyable


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Gone back to a full body bb type routine after years of strength and strongman training. Lost a lot of thickness recently and don't seem to react well to the higher reps. I am cutting however.

I will be returning to strength based training more after my holiday.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

I switched from bro-splits with all sorts of isolation movements to a really basic 3x a week full-body routine based on heavy compounds. Best thing I ever did. I started gaining again, and at 45yo & natty, got to the biggest & strongest I had ever been.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Jason88 said:


> I moved over to strength based routines last year after messing around with 8/12 rep body building style routines.
> 
> Best choice ive made im gaining more muscle then before, which was a surprise.
> 
> ...


This highlights a very important point which is often missing from 'traditional' BB routines.

With strength routines, we generally have quantifiable goals and targets which must be reached each week. This provides the ability to measure progress. If the program, exercise selection or rep schemes are continually varied then the ability to measure progress disappears. Also, if too many exercises are included then there is no ability to measure progress as the body is already fatigued and the numbers will depend on the level of fatigue level rather than ability of the athlete.

This, in itself, offers a distinct advantage: The poundages you are lifting in your strength routine give you the undeniable truth of whether you are making progress or not.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

tomo8 said:


> What ypur saying is true an most proably right, not sure what determines if im intermediate or advanced.
> 
> Ive downloaded the 531 ebook an the juggernaut method 2.0 so will give one of them ago.
> 
> Cheers.


Beginner or intermediate can be determined by your current lifts in the big 3. What are they currently?


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

SK50 said:


> Beginner or intermediate can be determined by your current lifts in the big 3. What are they currently?


Bench 125kg for 3 reps

Squat 170kg for 2 reps

Deadlift 180kg 2 reps

Front squat 140kg 1 rep

Lifetime natty


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

I've always preferred the strength training method, pumping biceps and tri ceps has never appealed to me only do them now and then to keep them up usually in the high rep range.

Never really bodybuilded. Tho I always mix up my routines to aid in strength gain weather it be high reps or low

If I am going on Holiday or away for a weekend I might change the routine a little 4 weeks out to pump the muscle rather than tire them out


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

tomo8 said:


> Bench 125kg for 3 reps
> 
> Squat 170kg for 2 reps
> 
> ...


Those are solid numbers for a natural. Personally I'd say that's well away from any "beginner" zone. I'd say a rough guide to become an "intermediate" would be 200/300/400 which you are well above

You have a variety of options but I think 531 would work well, or if you want 3 days a week without all the spreadsheets and periodisation something like mingster's routine would work

I hope some others chime in and give you some input


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## Blacky (Apr 21, 2014)

SK50 said:


> Those are solid numbers for a natural. Personally I'd say that's well away from any "beginner" zone. I'd say a rough guide to become an "intermediate" would be 200/300/400 which you are well above
> 
> You have a variety of options but I think 531 would work well, or if you want 3 days a week without all the spreadsheets and periodisation something like mingster's routine would work
> 
> I hope some others chime in and give you some input


Do you compete? The reason I ask is I have just done my first comp and am thinking of going back to 5/3/1 as a build up to my next comp. However my coach doesn't see the point in rep maxes beyond 5 rep range. He does know his **** though as he just broke world record for masters bench press 305.5kg at 120kg body weight.

I do miss the challenge of rep maxes!


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Blacky said:


> Do you compete? The reason I ask is I have just done my first comp and am thinking of going back to 5/3/1 as a build up to my next comp. However my coach doesn't see the point in rep maxes beyond 5 rep range. He does know his **** though as he just broke world record for masters bench press 305.5kg at 120kg body weight.
> 
> I do miss the challenge of rep maxes!


I have only done a couple of meets. Will probably do another later this year if I can get my total up a bit more and if I don't have too much going on in my life.

I think 5/3/1 is a solid routine for powerlifting (and hypertrohpy) - it is time proven and has built some big lifters over the years from what I can see on other forums.

If I had a coach who has a big record, personally I would listen to him as much as possible and not deviate from his routine then only ask to change it if it's not working for you.

When you say he doesn't see the point in rep maxes beyond 5's, isn't that the same as 531 though? When you do more than 5, that's just because you're smashing the target reps incidentally?


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## Jamestuala (Apr 16, 2014)

I'm currently going through the switch now although I'm still gonna do a couple of isolations


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## Blacky (Apr 21, 2014)

SK50 said:


> I have only done a couple of meets. Will probably do another later this year if I can get my total up a bit more and if I don't have too much going on in my life.
> 
> I think 5/3/1 is a solid routine for powerlifting (and hypertrohpy) - it is time proven and has built some big lifters over the years from what I can see on other forums.
> 
> ...


Sure, he isn't totally against 5/3/1 but just says do the required reps. I then might do some heavy triples or singles.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Blacky said:


> Sure, he isn't totally against 5/3/1 but just says do the required reps. I then might do some heavy triples or singles.


I see, I think not doing rep maxes is a good idea sometimes - but it is hard to resist going for broke.

Have you looked into wendler's modified version of 531? I believe it's called 3/5/1 for powerlifting. It's here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/531_reloaded

The rep max sets are generally discouraged, and after doing the main work set you do heavy singles on the 3 and 1 weeks.

I am doing that version of it currently.


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## Blacky (Apr 21, 2014)

Cheers I'll take a look at it:thumbup1:


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Blacky said:


> Cheers I'll take a look at it:thumbup1:


No worries.. just out of interest though, what is his opinion on deloading? How often does he have you deload?


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## Blacky (Apr 21, 2014)

SK50 said:


> No worries.. just out of interest though, what is his opinion on deloading? How often does he have you deload?


I don't think he knows the word. Take a few days of before a comp and a few days after. That's it. Unlike straight 5/3/1 we tend to do light and heavy days, ie: heavy leg day (squats and deads), light upper, light leg (squats and assistance), heavy upper mainly bench.


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Blacky said:


> I don't think he knows the word. Take a few days of before a comp and a few days after. That's it. Unlike straight 5/3/1 we tend to do light and heavy days, ie: heavy leg day (squats and deads), light upper, light leg (squats and assistance), heavy upper mainly bench.


Thanks, that's interesting. That probably explains why he encourages stopping at the target reps then perhaps.

Always good to hear a perspective of someone who has gone far in the sport


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