# Bodybuilding for Dummies.



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Training

Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.

You can pick any exercises you choose be they compound or isolation exercises.

As long as you work the muscle to failure it will respond with growth.

It doesn't matter how many days you choose to train your body will compensate and respond to the exercise and stress its put under.

Your muscle gains are defined by your genetic potential

Natural and enhanced have differing limits but you have limits all the same.

The function of a muscle is to move a limb in a certain direction, and to stimulate it you must work it with varying degrees under tension along its length.

The muscle will respond to any exercise, there are none that are better than others.

Diet

It all depends on your goals, at the end of the day, food is just fuel for your body.

If you want to be a weightlifter and are not concerned with body composition then just eat as much as you can from the main food sources your definition of "getting to fat" is up to you.

Forget about macros and calories, its irrelevant.

If you want to stay in shape and look good then you need to watch the mirror, again calories and macros don't matter.

Keep an eye on your abs and intercostals, if you cant see them eat less until you can.

Eat a varied and balanced diet with no less than 100gms of protein a day.


----------



## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

That there be one of the mightiest coolesth stories thy ever did see, with me good eye yar me hearty!


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


You sure on that one chief.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> You sure on that one chief.


works for me.

What do you think they do?


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

banzi said:


> works for me.
> 
> What do you think they do?


I'm not a doctor but I'm not sure if all your muscles are for moving limbs. You have muscles in your neck etc. not for moving limbs.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> I'm not a doctor but I'm not sure if all your muscles are for moving limbs. You have muscles in your neck etc. not for moving limbs.


now whos the pedant?


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


What a load of bollox son . So anyway @banzi wheres the photo of you holding todays paper and a spoon to prove its legit.

After all anyone can steal someone elses profile pic son


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> What a load of bollox son . So anyway @banzi wheres the photo of you holding todays paper and a spoon to prove its legit.
> 
> After all anyone can steal someone elses profile pic son


I dont buy newspapers, will just a spoon do?


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

banzi said:


> now whos the pedant?


Oh please, if I had said the same thing you know you would have said something about it.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> I dont buy newspapers, will just a spoon do?


The same spoon you use to stir up.....5h1t!! Haha.


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

EpicSquats said:


> I'm not a doctor but I'm not sure if all your muscles are for moving limbs. You have muscles in your neck etc. not for moving limbs.


Correct my learned friend! The term is *static contraction*

Plenty more holes in the swiss chess that [O/P] charlatan has posted ****n lolz....noobs beware! srs


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

banzi said:


> I dont buy newspapers, will just a spoon do?


Yeah but stick it in your angus....


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> The same spoon you use to stir up.....5h1t!! Haha.



View attachment 166226


Its a soup ladle


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

banzi said:


> View attachment 166226
> 
> 
> Its a soup ladle


Not convinced pal a spoons a spoon not a soup ladle and secondly is that a prosthetic hand or just bad photoshop


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> Not convinced pal a spoons a spoon not a soup ladle and secondly is that a prosthetic hand or just bad photoshop


Do you have any more pics of you apart from the one of you playing "Im a little teapot" in your avi?


----------



## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


Your avi pic looks pretty decent but I can't for a minute believe you got there following this tripe.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Kazza61 said:


> Your avi pic looks pretty decent but I can't for a minute believe you got there following this tripe.


Pretty much, I dont use dumbells at all, I use rubber bands.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MissMartinez said:


> Why not just hold up a piece of paper saying UK-M, what'd this spoon business!!!


Not you as well? 

I have been posting pics since I got here

I posted this last year

View attachment 166228


----------



## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

banzi said:


> Pretty much, I dont use dumbells at all, I use rubber bands.


Seiously though; it doesn't matter which exercises you do, how often you do them (or presumably the weight/rep range) as long as you go to failure?? So on that advice I choose to do concentration curls with a 5lb dumbell once a fortnight to failure (say 250 reps). How soon will I reach my genetic potential?


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Kazza61 said:


> Seiously though; it doesn't matter which exercises you do, how often you do them (or presumably the weight/rep range) as long as you go to failure?? So on that advice I choose to do concentration curls with a 5lb dumbell once a fortnight to failure (say 250 reps). How soon will I reach my genetic potential?


While banzi and I disagree on a lot of things.. it's common sense to increase the weight after doing 'xx' number of reps.


----------



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> While banzi and I disagree on a lot of things.. it's common sense to increase the weight after doing 'xx' number of reps.


while that is a commonly held belief... It's on record that some of the elite bodybuilders don't pay attention to weight and reps

jay cutler has stated he goes into the gym and just makes his "muscles work"... if they aren't working he does more reps and a higher weight, he doesn't track anything, just goes by feel

more of an advanced training technique like... not for everyone


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> he doesn't track anything, just goes by feel


This is what I do these days and I'm getting better results than I have ever had before.

Don't care how many reps of what weight I do. I care about how I can get the muscle working. I concentrate on contracting the muscle I'm trying to work and keeping it under tension.

So I agree with @banzi on this one. I do track my macros though as I tend to get fat easily for whatever reason, so pay close attention to that stuff.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> while that is a commonly held belief... It's on record that some of the elite bodybuilders don't pay attention to weight and reps
> 
> jay cutler has stated he goes into the gym and just makes his "muscles work"... if they aren't working he does more reps and a higher weight, he doesn't track anything, just goes by feel
> 
> more of an advanced training technique like... not for everyone


u fvckin wot m8?!


----------



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> u fvckin wot m8?!


ha I think for most people though you should increase weight after hitting "x" reps like you said... until you have a better understanding of your body... then go by feel


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> ha I think for most people though you should increase weight after hitting "x" reps like you said... until you have a better understanding of your body... then go by feel


I throw weight on the bar non-stop, 'cos i'm a freak with pete rubish squat form.


----------



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> I throw weight on the bar non-stop, 'cos i'm a freak with pete rubish squat form.


do you celebrate every time you hit a single, double and triple on the deadlift like him?


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Is this satire? Please tell me this is satire :blink:


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> do you celebrate every time you hit a single, double and triple on the deadlift like him?


Nope :'( cause I suck at deadlift


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

MissMartinez said:


> Why not just hold up a piece of paper saying UK-M, what'd this spoon business!!!


It's been the standard test of legitimacy for purported pics of members used on BB.com for over 19 years...


----------



## Leigh (Jun 13, 2012)

banzi said:


> View attachment 166226
> 
> 
> Its a soup ladle


Well, banzi, now that I've seen your pic, I have to say I'm impressed.

That is a quality ladle.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't count sets/reps anymore. I just lift until I can't lift no more.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

The point is you can complicate bodybuilding as much as you like, in fact they make it complicated so they can sell it.

All the daft training routines you see online and in magazines dont really get done by the athletes , in fact they have no input into the articles.

Jay Cutler has been mentioned in this thread , he trains instinctively.

When I get to the gym I decide what Im going to do depending on machine/equipment availability

I pick an excercise and start of with a few warm up sets then depending on how I feel I start increasing weight until I get to where Im failing at around 12 reps.

I then do a few sets with that with lots of pause reps and constant tension until I fail.

I superset excercises a lot and can do shoulders and arms in 20 minutes.

Yesterday I trained shoulders and arms heres the workout

shoulder press machine supersetted with powerband lateral raises

preacher curls supersetted with 1 arm curls with the band

Triceps dip machine supersetted with rope pulldowns


----------



## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

banzi said:


> The point is you can complicate bodybuilding as much as you like, in fact they make it complicated so they can sell it.
> 
> All the daft training routines you see online and in magazines dont really get done by the athletes , in fact they have no input into the articles.
> 
> ...


And that sir, makes a 1000% more sense than your first post in this thread!


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

i never track weights to be honest ... that would ruin my workout getting out my note pad after every set and writing sh1t down


----------



## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

the first thing anyone should learn in BB is the muscle doesnt understand maths, numbers and reps, it understands work and failure.

unfortunately most people dont understand what failure means and very rarely reach it.

you wouldnt train for a 10k run by running 5k over and over, so why do the same with weights


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Boshlop said:


> the first thing anyone should learn in BB is the muscle doesnt understand maths, numbers and reps, it understands work and failure.
> 
> unfortunately most people dont understand what failure means and very rarely reach it.
> 
> you wouldnt train for a 10k run by running 5k over and over, so why do the same with weights


I agree with your first point and last, but disagree with the middle.

Training to failure constantly is not good for everyone, especially beginners and intermediates and i'd argue for people like that they avoid failure.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

What absolute garbage.

this is bodybuilding for dummies;

training - anything that allows you to apply progressive overload I.e either an increase in strength or reps are most common and easier to track

Try and hit everything 2x a week at least (although some will get away with 1x, these are exception not rule)

diet:

use a TDEE calculator online (Google it), enter accurate info. Subtract 500 calories and eat that if you wanna lose weight, add 500 calories and eat that much if you wanna gain weight.

Job done (assuming you mean natty bb, drugs change everything of course)


----------



## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

I agree 100%,

I hate people who are normal civilians who count calories and macros and I can be 99% of the time they are well out of shape, they either talk b0ll0cks or have no maths, I'm 206lbs lean(ish) never counted macros in my life fvck that ****, I eat breakfast lunch and dinner then snack in between. I don't weigh my food I portion my sizes depending on my hunger. I just make sure I eat meat or a form of protein with 2-3 of my meals a day.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

banzi said:


> The point is you can complicate bodybuilding as much as you like, in fact they make it complicated so they can sell it.
> 
> All the daft training routines you see online and in magazines dont really get done by the athletes , in fact they have no input into the articles.
> 
> ...


Totally agree on all of this, everyone's looking for some magic formula, got some lame notepad with XXX's routine. Same with diet, I keep everything as simple as possible with diet, training I train what I need to (weak points) harder - good form, don't care for number of sets etc.

And yeah that's me in the avi


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Fortunatus said:


> I agree 100%,
> 
> I hate people who are normal civilians who count calories and macros and I can be 99% of the time they are well out of shape, they either talk b0ll0cks or have no maths, I'm 206lbs lean(ish) never counted macros in my life fvck that ****, I eat breakfast lunch and dinner then snack in between. I don't weigh my food I portion my sizes depending on my hunger. I just make sure I eat meat or a form of protein with 2-3 of my meals a day.


So you hate me lol


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

I think this thread shows there is more than one way to skin a cat

Do what you enjoy as long as it works for you. There maybe more "optimual "( hate the trend for using that word) but if you don't enjoy it then what's the point?

The key thing for me is consistency. If your doing the thing your enjoy and that works for you over weeks/ months/ years you'll see the results.


----------



## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

FelonE said:


> So you hate me lol


I'm more on about the high percentage of people who look live they've been training for a month weighing out there chicken every night! if people do it and are in good shape fair play but most people look like sh1t. besides I would be to frightened to hate you


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Fortunatus said:


> I'm more on about the high percentage of people who look live they've been training for a month weighing out there chicken every night! if people do it and are in good shape fair play but most people look like sh1t. besides I would be to frightened to hate you


Lol I'm a nice guy. I know what you mean though, talked to a few lads at my gym who tell me they do this and that,been doing it for a couple if yrs.......look like they've never lifted a weight haha.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> What absolute garbage.
> 
> this is bodybuilding for dummies;
> 
> ...


Have you posted a picture of yourself yet?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Fbmmofo said:


> *I think this thread shows there is more than one way to skin a cat*Do what you enjoy as long as it works for you. There maybe more "optimual "( hate the trend for using that word) but if you don't enjoy it then what's the point?
> 
> The key thing for me is consistency. If your doing the thing your enjoy and that works for you over weeks/ months/ years you'll see the results.


I agree with this but the way bodybuilding is sold these days is that if you are not doing the latest fad routine of counting every single calorie and macro you are doomed to fail, it isnt the case.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Fortunatus said:


> I'm more on about the high percentage of people who look live they've been training for a month weighing out there chicken every night! if people do it and are in good shape fair play but most people look like sh1t. besides I would be to frightened to hate you


What a stupid way to look at it. LOL.

What about the high percentage of people who go to the gym 'eat clean' can't lift for sh1t and are f4t as fvck? works both ways mate.

You don't understand/care about basic dieting practices so you're commenting on it why?

Here take a read:

"Flexible Dieting can't get you in competition shape and condition? Wrong.

You've never competed so you can't coach a bodybuilding competitor? Wrong.

How can you go against everything that bodybuilders have done for years and expect to get anyone in shape? That's easy when you understand nutritional science and human physiology.

The "bodybuilding" way is not always the right way nor is it the smart way.

We've seen it over the years that the vast majority of people who compete do the SAME OLD protocols. That's also the reason why many are hit and miss when it comes to being in competition shape and why a few days later many look how they wanted or should have looked on stage.

When you follow uncalculated, uncontrolled and just do what "X Bodybuilder" did, that is like just flipping a coin. It has no TRUE logical or justificational reason behind the process. And then you have "Y Competitor" jumping from "bro" coach to "bro" coach in the hope of one time hitting the mark. Of which will be again just pure luck more than anything.

These are many of the things I've over come as a coach and what I've seen happen for years on end. However when you have an understanding of the human body, how things ACTUALLY work and do it all in a controlled and calculated manner the window for error becomes much smaller so hitting the mark is far easier to achieve. It's by no means perfect or fool proof but it is far more likely to hit the mark than not compared to a guessing game and hoping for a magical unicorn.

So if you want to comp and have things done in a way that allows for a flexible dietary intake (yes eating foods you like and want in a controlled manner rather than the same 5 so called clean foods) and a far less stressful prep (in all areas of training and life balance) find a coach WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Because a coach who is a bodybuilder and has competed doesn't automatically make then a good or knowledgeable coach. Sure there are some don't get me wrong, but that's not a meaningful indicator of coaching prowless.

And I know the real bodybuilding tragics will hate me or think I shouldn't be a part of the industry and I just "got lucky" with these two guys.

Andreas, on the left was one of the first guys I prepped and we did the "flexible thing" some 4 years ago and Dean, on the right, from last year took things to a whole new level. Both of these guys worked under a controlled and calculated manner and did things in a very simplistic way. Ate foods they enjoyed to meet their daily macro and nutritional needs, trained major body parts and compound lifts twice a week, did the least amount of cardio possible and worked on maintaining a calorie deficit as required.

There was no eating 6 times a day to boost the metabolism, they ate when it suited them. There was no avoiding this food or that food, they ate any food they wanted to. There was no low carbs or avoiding carbs at night or worrying about spiking insulin with this carb or that carb, they ate carbs whenever they wanted and any carbohydrate type they liked. There was no avoiding salt, salt loading and depleting or carb depleting and loading or keeping carbs and fats seperate nor was water limited. It was all very simplistic and uncomplicated. If someone says there is "cutting edge" protocols then they really have no idea and have just been sold on something stupid.

So everyone who is currently in prep, good luck for the upcoming shows and let's hope you hit the mark!"


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Here we go lol


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Here we go lol


I had a bad nightmare last night that my driveway was falling away and there was a hole in the earth and I almost fell in, now all idiots on UK-M will feel the wrath.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Have you posted a picture of yourself yet?


I'm drug free (atm) and you're clearly not.

I have been lifting a few years, can assume you have been lifting far longer.

Why would a picture of me have any relevance to what's scientific fact and is countlessly proven to be correct?

That is the standard response people like you give, when you know deep down What I said is correct but don't want to backtrack and/or are blinded by your own results/experiences (which MAY NOT represent the general/overwhelms population, which is what advice should be aimed at)

Look forward to hearing your response (unless of course it's " im 205lb lean i don't track anything just superset all day er day so it must be right")


----------



## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

banzi said:


> The point is you can complicate bodybuilding as much as you like, in fact they make it complicated so they can sell it.
> 
> All the daft training routines you see online and in magazines dont really get done by the athletes , in fact they have no input into the articles.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty much like this. I go in knowing which body part I'm training but that's all. Rest I just do random sets and reps. Super sets. Drop sets.


----------



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

it's so hard to get fat when eating "clean"

purely because it's incredibly hard to overeat on whole foods imo (AT LEAST IT IS FOR MY STOMACH)

much easier to overeat on cookies then it is say carrots


----------



## AlexB18 (Dec 10, 2013)

*grabs popcorn*


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


This is why we get along. Basically exactly what i do.


----------



## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

banzi said:


> View attachment 166226
> 
> 
> Its a soup ladle


Is that a joseph and joseph utensil you are holding there? My set came without the ladle, i am pretty gutted if yours came with one.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

The training theory is not my cup of tea, but an interesting approach from banzi.

I am of the opposing school of thought: systematically build strength in the main lifts and let the muscle follow. But, I should admit I do have bias as I prefer powerlifting and all my training has always been based around it.


----------



## Jammy Dodger (Nov 2, 2014)

sen said:


> I'm pretty much like this. I go in knowing which body part I'm training but that's all. Rest I just do random sets and reps. Super sets. Drop sets.


I'm the same. Some people are giving banzi ****, but arnt seeing the point he is trying to get across. For pretty much everyone on this forum and in our gyms its a hobby. It's meant to be fun.

Yesterday I went to the gym and was going to do legs. Squat rack was busy when I got there so I ended up doing a smallish full body workout. I'm not competing, it's not my job and I enjoyed it. I'd get more from that than sitting at home doing nothing. And I left feeling pretty pleased with myself. On banzis advice I've really slowed down my reps. I've gone from curling (with momentum) 20kg Dumbbells to now bearly dying whilst curling a 20 kg Olympic bar. But I'm getting a better workout because of it.

For those of us who arnt used to eating healthily or know nothing about nutrition then counting calories and macros is important. But once your body gets used to those foods, those quantities and that pattern of eating then it's for the most part not needed in my opinion.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> I'm drug free (atm) and you're clearly not.
> 
> *I have been lifting a few years, can assume you have been lifting far longer.*
> 
> ...


So you have been following all the scientifically proven methods for a few years and dont feel confident enough to post a picture?

Maybe science isnt working for you.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> What a stupid way to look at it. LOL.
> 
> What about the high percentage of people who go to the gym 'eat clean' can't lift for sh1t and are f4t as fvck? works both ways mate.
> 
> ...


stop spamming my thread dumbass


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> stop spamming my thread dumbass


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> Is that a joseph and joseph utensil you are holding there? My set came without the ladle, i am pretty gutted if yours came with one.


Do yours keep falling off the circular holder like a game of Jenga when you brush past them?


----------



## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> What a stupid way to look at it. LOL.
> 
> What about the high percentage of people who go to the gym 'eat clean' can't lift for sh1t and are f4t as fvck? works both ways mate.
> 
> ...


I can't be fvcked reading all that what I'm saying is, I see so many hundreds of people on forums, that I know that go on how they count calories and they look dreadful. I'm on about normal people not professional bodybuilders pal. usual 9-5 I go to the gym after work have been for years count macro's and I look like my mate who doesn't go to the gym, those sort of people. I was generalizing. no one can deny it you see them with your eyes.

if I want to gain , I chuck in an extra meal If I want to cut, I cut out an extra meal. what else is to it? I'm in good shape and I do it without all the bullsh1t people are being told you need to do.

could of guess tommybigb0ll0cks would pipe up


----------



## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

banzi said:


> Do yours keep falling off the circular holder like a game of Jenga when you brush past them?


they do, sometimes when i am not even near them.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SK50 said:


> The training theory is not my cup of tea, but an interesting approach from banzi.
> 
> I am of the opposing school of thought: systematically build strength in the main lifts and let the muscle follow. But, I should admit I do have bias as I prefer powerlifting and all my training has always been based around it.


I will agree with you that this isnt a good approach for a powerlifter.

As a powerlifter the goal isnt to build muscle, the muscle comes as a side effect of the lifting.

A powerlifters goal is to lift the heaviest weight and to use leverage and technique to achieve that.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Snorbitz1uk said:


> they do, sometimes when i am not even near them.


One of lifes frustrations


----------



## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

banzi said:


> One of lifes frustrations


Its been a few years now so i am getting used to it, i dont even cry when it happens anymore.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> What absolute garbage.
> 
> this is bodybuilding for dummies;
> 
> ...


And id say thats absolute garbage. I dont do any of that and never have to be honest.


----------



## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

banzi said:


> I will agree with you that this isnt a good approach for a powerlifter.
> 
> As a powerlifter the goal isnt to build muscle, the muscle comes as a side effect of the lifting.
> 
> A powerlifters goal is to lift the heaviest weight and to use leverage and technique to achieve that.


Sorry, but you misunderstood. I didn't mean that.

What I meant is that I am of the school of thought which uses powerlifting and its strength progression concepts as the basis for bodybuilding.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Fortunatus said:


> I can't be fvcked reading all that what I'm saying is, I see so many hundreds of people on forums, that I know that go on how they count calories and they look dreadful. I'm on about normal people not professional bodybuilders pal. usual 9-5 I go to the gym after work have been for years count macro's and I look like my mate who doesn't go to the gym, those sort of people. I was generalizing. no one can deny it you see them with your eyes.
> 
> if I want to gain , I chuck in an extra meal If I want to cut, I cut out an extra meal. what else is to it? I'm in good shape and I do it without all the bullsh1t people are being told you need to do.
> 
> could of guess tommybigb0ll0cks would pipe up


your way of thinking is retarded seeing as the majority of people talk about "eat healthy and clean" - i'm talking about normal people too.  - my original point was; there is a lot of people who dont count, and a lot who do - both groups have people who look like sh1t.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> And id say thats absolute garbage. I dont do any of that and never have to be honest.


no more sex


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> So you have been following all the scientifically proven methods for a few years and dont feel confident enough to post a picture?
> 
> Maybe science isnt working for you.


How was I expecting a reply like that.

I am more than confident to post a picture but am at work and do not have any to hand (but like I say, completely irrelevant). It was obvious you would bring up the picture point in an attempt to personally attack myself, and avoid the question of why you apparently disagree with scientific facts.

Why don't you go study nutritional science, human and physiological biology for a few years, then go reread your post.

But look, if that works for you, great. I'm honestly happy for you. You have a great physique, I imagine very good genetics, and have a substantial past filled with anabolic use (which we all know, is 80% of building such a physique).

Also, If you could actually read, you will notice I said that's the basics for drug free lifters. Anyone can get lean on tren/test/mast/winny/clen/t3 bud.

I wonder now whether you will provide some proof to your original claims and methodology (rather than a few members ancedotal evidence) or just another pathetic personal attack to deflect the question.

And btw, I wouldn't even if cared if you had said "this is what works for me" rather than your chosen title.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SK50 said:


> Sorry, but you misunderstood. I didn't mean that.
> 
> What I meant is that I am of the school of thought which uses powerlifting and its strength progression concepts as the basis for bodybuilding.


Ah I see

I know trainers and gym owners who advocate that method to newbies so they can track progressive overload rather than training on instinct and trying to work on the mind muscle connection without having the ability to understand it.

Dont you find that now you are experienced you could start working on instinctive training.

I gurantee you couldnt hit the weight/rep ranges you are currently doing now if I was spotting you and making you work harder.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> no more sex


You were crap anyway. You cried too much.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> You were crap anyway. You cried too much.


I see how it is..


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> How was I expecting a reply like that.
> 
> I am more than confident to post a picture but am at work and do not have any to hand (but like I say, completely irrelevant). It was obvious you would bring up the picture point in an attempt to personally attack myself, and avoid the question of why you apparently disagree with scientific facts.
> 
> ...


No, no they cant.

My method works for everyone, and so does yours, but Im not spending all day weighing food and writing down '3x10 reps' in a little book when Im at the gym

Can you tell me whats scientifically wrong about my methods?


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> How was I expecting a reply like that.
> 
> I am more than confident to post a picture but am at work and do not have any to hand (but like I say, completely irrelevant). It was obvious you would bring up the picture point in an attempt to personally attack myself, and avoid the question of why you apparently disagree with scientific facts.
> 
> ...


It wasnt that long ago that science said that your body didnt need over 30g a day to grow muscle.

Often the science doesnt apply to bodybuilders. How many studies have been done on top level drug abusing bodybuilders. You can study all you like and reel off a load of scientific papers but it doesnt apply in our world. Real world results often go against what "should" happen on paper.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> It wasnt that long ago that science said that your body didnt need over 30g a day to grow muscle.


wat? it was bro-science that said you couldn't eat more than 30g protein per meal or it was wasted

wat? it was bro-science that says eat 6-8 meals a day for a fast metabolism

wat? it was bro-science that says you have to eat clean to lose bodyfat

wat? it was bro-science that says insulin effects fat loss in a deficit


----------



## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> your way of thinking is retarded seeing as the majority of people talk about "eat healthy and clean" - i'm talking about normal people too.  - my original point was; there is a lot of people who dont count, and a lot who do - both groups have people who look like sh1t.


yes obviously, but generally the people who count are the ones who are or like to think they are more serious about it, when a lot of the time they look just as bad as the people who don't count like you say.

counting to me seems like something that's only worth doing when your refining a already very good psychic, people seem to start of counting which I think isn't needed is my point.

I'm about 10-12% bodyfat I know if I want to drop that (I would never count) but I would have to sort out my diet a lot to refine myself I done it once never counted I just swapped a few foods for salads etc cut carbs so forth. but to the people who don't look like they train I don't believe need to bother counting just eat eat eat, getting too fat cut something out.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> It wasnt that long ago that science said that your body didnt need over 30g a day to grow muscle.
> 
> Often the science doesnt apply to bodybuilders. How many studies have been done on top level drug abusing bodybuilders. You can study all you like and reel off a load of scientific papers but it doesnt apply in our world. Real world results often go against what "should" happen on paper.


If a study shows that 99 people out of a 100 gained better lifting heavy weights then thats great, but not if you are the one it doesnt work for.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

PHMG said:


> It wasnt that long ago that science said that your body didnt need over 30g a day to grow muscle.
> 
> Often the science doesnt apply to bodybuilders. How many studies have been done on top level drug abusing bodybuilders. You can study all you like and reel off a load of scientific papers but it doesnt apply in our world. Real world results often go against what "should" happen on paper.


Exactly. I was taking about natural beginners which the thread title strongly indicates is aimed at, not top level heavy drug abusing body builders?

So we agree on that.


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

banzi said:


> Do you have any more pics of you apart from the one of you playing "Im a little teapot" in your avi?



View attachment 166246


No prob son. Now where's the spoon and newspaper pic of you you pathetic sad fat old man with a fake avi?


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Fortunatus said:


> yes obviously, but generally the people who count are the ones who are or like to think they are more serious about it, when a lot of the time they look just as bad as the people who don't count like you say.
> 
> counting to me seems like something that's only worth doing when your refining a already very good psychic, people seem to start of counting which I think isn't needed is my point.
> 
> I'm about 10-12% bodyfat I know if I want to drop that (I would never count) but I would have to sort out my diet a lot to refine myself I done it once never counted I just swapped a few foods for salads etc cut carbs so forth. but to the people who don't look like they train I don't believe need to bother counting just eat eat eat, getting too fat cut something out.


counting is worth doing so you can enjoy any foods you want without limiting yourself.

counting is worth doing so you know exactly what your maintenance is and how you can adjust in future.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Fortunatus said:


> yes obviously, but generally the people who count are the ones who are or like to think they are more serious about it, when a lot of the time they look just as bad as the people who don't count like you say.
> 
> counting to me seems like something that's only worth doing when your refining a already very good psychic, people seem to start of counting which I think isn't needed is my point.
> 
> *I'm about 10-12% bodyfat I know if I want to drop that (I would never count) but I would have to sort out my diet a lot to refine myself I done it once never counted I just swapped a few foods for salads etc cut carbs so forth. but to the people who don't look like they train I don't believe need to bother counting just eat eat eat, getting too fat cut something out*.


If you are too thin buy bigger dinner plates, if you are too fat buy smaller dinner plates.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> If a study shows that 99 people out of a 100 gained better lifting heavy weights then thats great, but not if you are the one it doesnt work for.


Indeed. So if you're the 1 out of 100 it doesn't work for (but another methodology does), do you think that 1 person should be telling the other 99 how to train/eat?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> counting is worth doing so you can enjoy any foods you want without limiting yourself.
> 
> counting is worth doing so you know exactly what your maintenance is and how you can adjust in future.


But you dont need to, if your daily set level is 2000 cals, so what if you go 30 cals over or 30 cals under

You can even eat 2400 one day and 1600 another, you will still be at 2000 a day overall


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> Exactly. I was taking about natural beginners which the thread title strongly indicates is aimed at, not top level heavy drug abusing body builders?
> 
> So we agree on that.


no....because natural bodybuilding doesnt exist :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Indeed. So if you're the 1 out of 100 it doesn't work for (but another methodology does), do you think that 1 person should be telling the other 99 how to train/eat?


No he shouldnt, he should be telling people that lifting heavy isnt the only option, which is precisely what Im doing.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> But you dont need to, if your daily set level is 2000 cals, so what if you go 30 cals over or 30 cals under
> 
> You can even eat 2400 one day and 1600 another, you will still be at 2000 a day overall


Exactly, and if you count them you can accurately eat 2400 one day and 1600 another - which some days I do. It is just a tool in thee toolbox.

You might like this (if you're not being awkward) - this is what my coach said on my Facebook a while back he was referring to NOT counting:

"This strategy is more common than the online fitness scene wants people to think. From looking at the hordes of body dysmorphic teenagers online you'd think tight tracking is the only way to go, and for competitive physique athletes it is. But that's far from the only effective nutrition strategy for non physique athletes, as demonstrated by elites from almost any sport who'd look at you like a Martian if you brought up tracking in conversation. They get along fine, with health and weight management, without the obsessive behavior. In reality most athletes (bodybuilders are a very small percentage of the world's athletes) either don't track at all or track without adhering to a rigid structure. It's far simpler to just keep an eye on balance and make basic adjustments. Tracking needs to stay in the toolbox for situations where more control is needed, but IMO being a little more instinctive will free you up to focus more on training and perfecting movement, which will have greater impact in the long run than tight control of body comp anyway."


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> No he shouldnt, he should be telling people that lifting heavy isnt the only option, which is precisely what Im doing.


Agreed. My problem is I don't see that said/suggested in anyway shape or form.

Quite the contrary "bodybuilding for beginers" suggests these are the fundamental basics that should be followed, if you see what I mean


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> But you dont need to, if your daily set level is 2000 cals, so what if you go 30 cals over or 30 cals under
> 
> You can even eat 2400 one day and 1600 another, you will still be at 2000 a day overall


How do you know if you ate 2400 and 1600 on another if you weren't counting?


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

@banzi Do you even lift? srs


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> How do you know if you ate 2400 and 1600 on another if you weren't counting?


You dont have to, you know if you eat too much on one day to eat a bit less on another.

Everyone who is lifting weights should know what to eat and what not to.

If you dont you shouldnt be doing it.

I know if I eat as much chicken fillet and broccoli as I can a day Im not going to get fat

I cant do the same with pies and cakes.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

To train by instinct, you have to have trained instincts


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> I cant do the same with pies and cakes.


You are just showing why counting is a great tool, so we can enjoy all foods.

Avoid food avoidance


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Agreed. My problem is I don't see that said/suggested in anyway shape or form.
> 
> Quite the contrary "bodybuilding for beginers" suggests these are the fundamental basics that should be followed, if you see what I mean


 :confused1:

Back up the truck a bit, you wrote earlier.



Jalex said:


> What absolute garbage.


So now you feel that my methods work but are not for everyone or beginners?


----------



## scot-ish (Oct 21, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Anyone can get lean on tren/test/mast/winny/clen/t3 bud


where can i find said superfoods?


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

Truth of the matter is... it's all fair enough the no-bullshiit approach banzi but you can't generally say "that" to a novice and expect them to learn anything about training and diet by "winging it"...

It works for you and for many other experienced people for one reason; you have years of experience under your belt and you've learned through all the necessary steps and processes that have taught you enough to understand what you need by "feel".

Yes, there are many different approaches and different methods work for different people. None are worse or better than others; it's your work ethic that gets the results, regardless of which method you choose to follow.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> How do you know if you ate 2400 and 1600 on another if you weren't counting?


You dont. But then why do you need to.

You dont know what you require each day either as it can vary quite significantly.

So the message is, eat good foods and train hard.

If you enjoy a bit of sh.it (as i do) then eat that as well, and do more work to compensate for it.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Kristina said:


> Truth of the matter is... it's all fair enough the no-bullshiit approach banzi but you can't generally say "that" to a novice and expect them to learn anything about training and diet by "winging it"...
> 
> It works for you and for many other experienced people for one reason; you have years of experience under your belt and you've learned through all the necessary steps and processes that have taught you enough to understand what you need by "feel".
> 
> Yes, there are many different approaches and different methods work for different people. None are worse or better than others; it's your work ethic that gets the results, regardless of which method you choose to follow.


The problem lies in the over complication of it all though. The problem is that a novice is bombarded with all these over the top complicated routines and diets. Tries 100 different things in a month and gets nowhere.

So what banzi is doing, is cutting the bullsh.it and taking it back to basics. Basics build physiques. Sooner you try training by feel, the faster you learn what is working for you.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I never counted a calorie in my life, god how tedious - currently 5% bodyfat


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> The problem lies in the over complication of it all though. The problem is that a novice is bombarded with all these over the top complicated routines and diets. Tries 100 different things in a month and gets nowhere.
> 
> So what banzi is doing, is cutting the bullsh.it and taking it back to basics. Basics build physiques. Sooner you try training by feel, the faster you learn what is working for you.


Counting calories & macros *is* a fool proof way of doing things, that part isn't really up for debate. It's also very easy to do.


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

PHMG said:


> The problem lies in the over complication of it all though. The problem is that a novice is bombarded with all these over the top complicated routines and diets. Tries 100 different things in a month and gets nowhere.
> 
> So what banzi is doing, is cutting the bullsh.it and taking it back to basics. Basics build physiques. Sooner you try training by feel, the faster you learn what is working for you.


Not really... any beginner program is actually VERY simple.

The very first program I was on for about the first year of training was... about 5 exercises in total.

What you're talking about there is the bullshiit side of the industry (and agree with you!) BUT if a person is capable of using Google... it is very easy to find hundreds of perfectly simple beginner programs.

One of the problems is novices who get ahead of themselves and think that they're suddenly intermediate or advanced just because they've been training a couple months and think they "know it all". That... that's just stupidity and lack of common sense.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> You are just showing why counting is a great tool, so we can enjoy all foods.
> 
> Avoid food avoidance


Exactly mate, I had a small Dominos the other day, scales have still gone down because I calorie-counted. Not hard.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

I said:


> Exactly mate' date=' I had a small Dominos the other day, scales have still gone down because I calorie-counted. Not hard.[/quote']
> 
> We're gonna make it bruh. When I'm 5% - I'm inviting banzi over to lick melted Ben & Jerrys off my abs, if hes lucky, he'll get a happy ending the dirty dog.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> Counting calories & macros *is* a fool proof way of doing things, that part isn't really up for debate. It's also very easy to do.


i know i know.

Im just a bit old school with it i think. Love reading about the 70's bodybuilders hitting a 2 hour weight session, then falling into and all you can eat buffet. Loads of eggs, bacon and toast with butter for breakfast and big glasses of ice cold milk. All had a quality look and good healthy levels of bodyfat year round.

I like the idea of eating good food in a completely normal way (i.e. not tracking anything or worrying if its hitting your macros) and then focussing on your bodybulding when it matters....when you're training. This is what i try to do.

We have got a new worker at my place of work that been training a couple of years. Youngish lad and he is mortified by the fact that i eat normal foods at normal meal times :lol: . His mind is so saturated by what hes read i should be doing that he thinks im some sort of genetic freak :lol:


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

I said:


> Exactly mate' date=' I had a small Dominos the other day, scales have still gone down because I calorie-counted. Not hard.[/quote']
> 
> I ate a huge dominos the other day.
> 
> ...


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> i know i know.
> 
> Im just a bit old school with it i think. Love reading about the 70's bodybuilders hitting a 2 hour weight session, then falling into and all you can eat buffet. Loads of eggs, bacon and toast with butter for breakfast and big glasses of ice cold milk. All had a quality look and good healthy levels of bodyfat year round.
> 
> ...


Old school bb'ers used to count calories and macros. They just used books to find the calories for their foods. Thats why I don't understand why people act as if its new, or weird.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> I ate a huge dominos the other day.
> 
> I dont know if the scales have gone down, but i look pretty decent....
> 
> Not hard.


The difference is you're not trying to get to a certain bodyfat, you're happy maintaining/growing/dropping fat when you feel like it. He/anyone can eat dominoes AND continue to drop to their desired bodyfat if they please.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

megatron said:


> *I never counted a calorie in my life*, god how tedious - currently 5% bodyfat


 mg: :ban:

How dare you!!!!


----------



## malray (Jan 8, 2013)

I count calories and yes that is me in my avi!!!! :thumbup1:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> We're gonna make it bruh. When I'm 5% - I'm inviting banzi over to lick melted Ben & Jerrys off my abs, if hes lucky, he'll get a happy ending the dirty dog.


If you get to 5% you will be so cool it wont melt.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Exactly mate' date=' I had a small Dominos the other day, scales have still gone down because I calorie-counted. Not hard.[/quote']
> 
> Me too, scales have gone down because ate less at lunch, I didnt need to count anything, easier.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

megatron said:


> I never counted a calorie in my life, god how tedious - currently 5% bodyfat


Try doing the same without AAS


----------



## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

sammym said:


> I'm the same. Some people are giving banzi ****, but arnt seeing the point he is trying to get across. For pretty much everyone on this forum and in our gyms its a hobby. It's meant to be fun.
> 
> Yesterday I went to the gym and was going to do legs. Squat rack was busy when I got there so I ended up doing a smallish full body workout. I'm not competing, it's not my job and I enjoyed it. I'd get more from that than sitting at home doing nothing. And I left feeling pretty pleased with myself. On banzis advice I've really slowed down my reps. I've gone from curling (with momentum) 20kg Dumbbells to now bearly dying whilst curling a 20 kg Olympic bar. But I'm getting a better workout because of it.
> 
> For those of us who arnt used to eating healthily or know nothing about nutrition then counting calories and macros is important. But once your body gets used to those foods, those quantities and that pattern of eating then it's for the most part not needed in my opinion.


Once you have to force yourself to eat or stick to something religiously, it becomes a chore. I tried sticking to a diet, eating exactly every 3 hours. X amount of cals but a lot of the time I wasn't hungry so had to force food down. Soon as I found an amount I could eat comfortably and not be hungry but also not be really full all day, I saw miles better results than I've ever seen.


----------



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

megatron said:


> I never counted a calorie in my life, god how tedious - currently 5% bodyfat


what is your approach to diet? portion control? eye ball meals? how do you go about it


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

zyphy said:


> Try doing the same without AAS


Do you want to end up back in the red?


----------



## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Kristina said:


> One of the problems is novices who get ahead of themselves and think that they're suddenly intermediate or advanced just because they've been training a couple months and think they "know it all". That... that's just stupidity and lack of common sense.


And the fact that they decide to follow a diet plan and routine from a person who is taking every medication known to man.


----------



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

PHMG said:


> I like the idea of eating good food in a completely normal way (i.e. not tracking anything or worrying if its hitting your macros) and then focussing on your bodybulding when it matters....when you're training. This is what i try to do.


couldn't agree more with this statement...

how do you structure your diet then?... just get your protein in and eat sensible sized meals when you are hungry?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Find what works for you and you like doing and do it,simple.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> I ate a huge dominos the other day.
> 
> I dont know if the scales have gone down, but i look pretty decent....
> 
> Not hard.


Papa johns > dominos


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

zyphy said:


> Papa johns > dominos


No way, papa johns is pondlife.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

zyphy said:


> Papa johns > dominos





TommyBananas said:


> No way, papa johns is pondlife.


If im honest guys, i dont get either. I buy the tesco 4 cheese one for £1.50.

anyone paying £10 for bread, cheese and tomato puree is a f.ucking idiot.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> If im honest guys, i dont get either. I buy the tesco 4 cheese one for £1.50.
> 
> anyone paying £10 for bread, cheese and tomato puree is a f.ucking idiot.


I only buy Dominoes if friends/girlfriend wants it - with buy one get one free.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

zyphy said:


> Try doing the same without AAS


I don't remember saying I was on AAS, would be the same result with less muscle retention regardless.

I never said I don't regulate my intake of food either, I have an easy method that I use to guage my intake without counting calories... No i'm not going into it


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> I only buy Dominoes if friends/girlfriend wants it - with buy one get one free.


You tight bastard :whistling:


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

zyphy said:


> Try doing the same without AAS


Why would anyone do this :lol:


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

JuggernautJake said:


> what is your approach to diet? portion control? eye ball meals? how do you go about it


It's selfish but I compete and there's money involved so I won't disclose my methods on a public forum.


----------



## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

Must say I agree whole heartily with the originator of this thread. But he missed out one point.

For 99.9% of us bb is a hobby, we will never be a pro bber earning millions of pounds for our hobby.

The 99.9% of us have jobs, families and other interests in life. They also take time and money to complete and fulfill.

Having big biceps will not get you a girlfriend, it will not pay the bills and most importantly of all is not the be all and end all in life.

Life is like a diet it is about balance.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

megatron said:


> It's selfish but I compete and there's money involved so I won't disclose my methods on a public forum.


This means he eats mcdonalds all day and mainlines ephedrine and tren :lol:


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Blinkey said:


> Must say I agree whole heartily with the originator of this thread. But he missed out one point.
> 
> For 99.9% of us bb is a hobby, we will never be a pro bber earning millions of pounds for our hobby.
> 
> ...


F.uck you talkin about...course it will! :lol:


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

PHMG said:


> If im honest guys, i dont get either. I buy the tesco 4 cheese one for £1.50.
> 
> anyone paying £10 for bread, cheese and tomato puree is a f.ucking idiot.


Or nah


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

zyphy said:


> Or nah


I literally have no idea what that means...


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Blinkey said:


> Must say I agree whole heartily with the originator of this thread. But he missed out one point.
> 
> For 99.9% of us bb is a hobby, we will never be a pro bber earning millions of pounds for our hobby.
> 
> ...


You are so wrong


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

megatron said:


> I don't remember saying I was on AAS, would be the same result with less muscle retention regardless.
> 
> I never said I don't regulate my intake of food either, I have an easy method that I use to guage my intake without counting calories... No i'm not going into it


Lol 'less muscle retention', more like hardly any at 5% natty


----------



## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

PHMG said:


> F.uck you talkin about...course it will! :lol:


OK agree, might be wrong on that bit.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Blinkey said:


> Must say I agree whole heartily with the originator of this thread. But he missed out one point.
> 
> For 99.9% of us bb is a hobby, we will never be a pro bber earning millions of pounds for our hobby.
> 
> ...


The OP is aimed directly towards people who do this as a hobby, its you who has missed that point.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

zyphy said:


> Lol 'less muscle retention', more like hardly any at 5% natty


Nah you can get 5% natty - you'll just look like you have AIDS


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Here is a pic of a ladel, gonna also have to make sure I get in the pic and tense hard :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

WilsonR6 said:


> Here is a pic of a ladel, gonna also have to make sure I get in the pic and tense hard :lol:


that was flaccid mate.

I did take a hard look at myself afterwards though

A 49 year old man posting a picture of himself topless with a ladle to own some guys on an internet forum.


----------



## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

your all phags


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

banzi said:


> that was flaccid mate.
> 
> I did take a hard look at myself afterwards though
> 
> A 49 year old man posting a picture of himself topless with a ladle to own some guys on an internet forum.


Gladly welcome more pictures... ladle not necessary.


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

denbec said:


> He wants bumming dry with the ladle I say !!


Are you 12?


----------



## Varg (May 17, 2010)

banzi said:


> Forget about macros and calories, its irrelevant.
> 
> If you want to stay in shape and look good then you need to watch the mirror, again calories and macros don't matter.
> 
> Keep an eye on your abs and intercostals, if you cant see them eat less until you can.


It's worth knowing what foods contain what calories though, otherwise it's a long process of trial and error.

It might seem obvious that pizza contains a lot of calories whilst carrots don't but if you eat till full of carrots or eat till full of pizza that's a big difference in energy.

You must be assuming beginners have this knowledge but I wouldn't be so sure.


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


So you're saying it doesn't matter what you eat? But if you are too fat eat less?? Is that the gist.?


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Here's a question too. If you're eating in a deficit and you train just as hard as you do when in a surplus and inflict the same damage to the muscle surely the body will repair the damage just the same? It's not going to leave it damaged is it? Would your body prioritise fixing the range in some way with the calories it has to work with? Does that make sense?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dannythinx said:


> So you're saying it doesn't matter what you eat? But if you are too fat eat less?? Is that the gist.?


No, not at all.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dannythinx said:


> Here's a question too. If you're eating in a deficit and you train just as hard as you do when in a surplus and inflict the same damage to the muscle surely the body will repair the damage just the same? It's not going to leave it damaged is it? Would your body prioritise fixing the range in some way with the calories it has to work with? Does that make sense?


Stop complicating things you will give yourself a migraine.


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> No, not at all.


Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> Stop complicating things you will give yourself a migraine.


Lol


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

PHMG said:


> If im honest guys, i dont get either. I buy the tesco 4 cheese one for £1.50.
> 
> anyone paying £10 for bread, cheese and tomato puree is a f.ucking idiot.


A tenner for the pure sensations of the tastebuds whilst chewing on a Domino's Mighty Meaty with BBQ base, washed down with coke, is worth every penny IMO. Plus, since I have a 50% off code, it's more like £9  It's only a tenner, who gives a toss :lol:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Awww bless. Nice to see everyone getting on at last


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Awww bless. Nice to see everyone getting on at last


Pis.s off you slaaaaaaaag


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

SickCurrent said:


> What a load of bollox son . So anyway @banzi wheres the photo of you holding todays paper and a spoon to prove its legit.
> 
> After all anyone can steal someone elses profile pic son


Lol I wouldn't worry about the pic, let's be honest it's not that great anyway. Plenty gym rats with better physique than him. Now he is an expert on bodybuilding lol. @banzi have you ever competed? If so how did you get on, I am guessing classic class?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Lol I wouldn't worry about the pic, let's be honest it's not that great anyway. Plenty gym rats with better physique than him. Now he is an expert on bodybuilding lol. @banzi have you ever competed? If so how did you get on, I am guessing classic class?


Oh dear, Im inside your head now.

Happy thoughts. :tongue:


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

banzi said:


> :confused1:
> 
> Back up the truck a bit, you wrote earlier.
> 
> So now you feel that *my methods *work but are not for everyone or beginners?


Your methods? Really? Wow this is ground breaking stuff from you. Maybe you should patent the methods? I mean I think it looks similar to what anyone on the Internet could find using youtube or wiki but I believe you, the whole method belongs to you. Maybe you should contact muscletech or somebody to help educate the world on bodybuilding. Afterall you have achieved so much and your expertise is unique


----------



## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

Delhi said:


> Lol I wouldn't worry about the pic, let's be honest it's not that great anyway. Plenty gym rats with better physique than him. Now he is an expert on bodybuilding lol. @banzi have you ever competed? If so how did you get on, I am guessing classic class?


Disagree mate, to be fair the guys posted a few pics on here and TM and he's in good nick. In better shape than 90% of those that call him out on his posts.


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

banzi said:


> Oh dear, Im inside your head now.
> 
> Happy thoughts. :tongue:


Lol nope sorry I know how much that must hurt but I just see you bragging about your expertise in yet another subject and want to question it. So have you actually competed? Easy one to answer even for you surely.


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Disagree mate, to be fair the guys posted a few pics on here and TM and he's in good nick. In better shape than 90% of those that call him out on his posts.


Not saying he isn't better than average on board but if you want to come across as an expert then you need to be able to back it up with a little more than he has IMO. If he was a pro I would listen, if he competed I would listen but from what I see in pics his physique ain't that special. Certainly not good enough to be parading about his expertise


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

So again banzi to give some credibility to yourself (in my eyes) have you ever competed and if so how did you place?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> *Your methods? Really?* Wow this is ground breaking stuff from you. Maybe you should patent the methods? I mean I think it looks similar to what anyone on the Internet could find using youtube or wiki but I believe you, the whole method belongs to you. Maybe you should contact muscletech or somebody to help educate the world on bodybuilding. Afterall you have achieved so much and your expertise is unique


You are getting desperate now

Yes, "my methods", the methods I use , that makes them my methods.

Try and get basic grasp of language if you wish to debate anything else.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> So again banzi to give some credibility to yourself (in my eyes) have you ever competed and if so how did you place?


I owe you nothing, other people know i have competed, people who matter, real people, not people who have belief in outlandish, ludicrous, distasteful ideas so they can appear relevant in a world that they know they have no place in.

Run along sonny, you're dismissed.


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

banzi said:


> You are getting desperate now
> 
> Yes, "my methods", the methods I use , that makes them my methods.
> 
> Try and get basic grasp of language if you wish to debate anything else.


Once again the slippery snake refuses to answer the question, I dont see what's so hard about answering it. Have you ever competed?

Simple straight forward question.


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

Lol the "expert" is an expert in Google searches.

In future don't try and make yourself out to be something you are not.

All I want to know is if you have competed and how you placed. By answering that you could position yourself appropriately for not just me but anyone else making a decision on how valid your points are or not.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Not saying he isn't better than average on board but if you want to come across as an *expert* then you need to be able to back it up with a little more than he has IMO. If he was a pro I would listen, if he competed I would listen but from what I see in pics his physique ain't that special. Certainly not good enough to be parading about his *expertise*


Lol, what expertise, Its called 'Bodybuilding for dummies', its the simplest thing of all.

Is my post difficult for you to grasp?

Its not Bill Pearls Keys to the Inner Universe.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Once again the slippery snake refuses to answer the question, I dont see what's so hard about answering it. Have you ever competed?
> 
> Simple straight forward question.


Im just not answering you, you are not worthy of my time.

Here, Im sure you will be more welcome here

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/f39/


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Lol the "expert" is an expert in Google searches.
> 
> In future don't try and make yourself out to be something you are not.
> 
> All I want to know is if you have competed and how you placed. By answering that you could position yourself appropriately for not just me but anyone else making a decision on how valid your points are or not.


Google search?

Would you have had to Google search what I wrote????


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

banzi said:


> Im just not answering you, you are not worthy of my time.
> 
> Here, Im sure you will be more welcome here
> 
> https://www.stormfront.org/forum/f39/


ha ha ha TROLL and you know it.

I I don't see why it's so difficult to answer. Afterall it's about integrity and authority on the subject. You can't expect the reader to listen to someone who has no integrity? Even you must grasp that. Don't see the issue in avoiding the question personly but I will say anyone reading about your methods should consider your silence


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> ha ha ha TROLL and you know it.
> 
> I I don't see why it's so difficult to answer. Afterall it's about integrity and authority on the subject. You can't expect the reader to listen to someone who has no integrity? Even you must grasp that. Don't see the issue in avoiding the question personly but I will say anyone reading about your methods should consider your silence


calm down Nancy.


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Delhi said:


> Once again the slippery snake refuses to answer the question,.


^^^This. I pity the noobs that are hugging your shriveled old shrunken nuts @banzi you farce


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> ^^^This. I pity the noobs that are hugging your shriveled old shrunken nuts @banzi you farce


aww, I thought we were friends after I posted the soup ladle.

Just no pleasing some.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


>


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Lol nope sorry I know how much that must hurt but I just see you bragging about your expertise in yet another subject and want to question it. So have you actually competed? Easy one to answer even for you surely.


We all love Banzy

Shut the [email protected] up


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Delhi said:


> Lol I wouldn't worry about the pic, let's be honest it's not that great anyway. Plenty gym rats with better physique than him. Now he is an expert on bodybuilding lol. @banzi have you ever competed? If so how did you get on, I am guessing classic class?


Woah woah!!!

Da fuc.k is wrong with classic class?


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

Frandeman said:


> We all love Banzy
> 
> Shut the [email protected] up


Sorry but no "WE" all don't. He is a grade A troll who jumps on threads starts arguments and causes disruption and disharmony to the board. So many people have had enough of him, so may I kindly request you shut the fcuk up


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

PHMG said:


> Woah woah!!!
> 
> Da fuc.k is wrong with classic class?


Never said anything WAS wrong with classic class, I made a guess based on his level of physique.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Yet another thread turns to sh1t.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

banzi said:


> Pretty much, I dont use dumbells at all, I use rubber bands.


And cables right?


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

The thing is banzi admits himself he is a forum troll. I like a debate and discussion but look over his posts and all you ever see is him stirring the sh1t with someone. People have a right to an opinion, banzi feels his opinion is the only opinion. But the truth is when he is called out he slips and slithers away.

Debating is good for the board, intentionally causing disruption and arguments is unhealthy. Even if he was knowledgable (trust me ain't) rather than attempt to belittle other members he should try and explain his opinion. More and more members are tired of him and I recieve reputation posts nearly all the time when I challenge his "authority".

He is smart but not that smart.


----------



## Jammy Dodger (Nov 2, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Sorry but no "WE" all don't. He is a grade A troll who jumps on threads starts arguments and causes disruption and disharmony to the board. So many people have had enough of him, so may I kindly request you shut the fcuk up


He's also helped some members both on the board and via private message.

Whether he competed or not - isn't relevant to the advice he gives to people who are in no way at the level to compete.

I'm not knocking you at all. But he's not a bad bloke. Not many people would be happy to answer bone PM's from people like myself.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Delhi said:


> Never said anything WAS wrong with classic class, I made a guess based on his level of physique.


Either way, you still sound like a bitch. Coming in a thread and chucking around your comments acting like some bodybuilding policeman. I personally like banzi so your previous comments and you can "shut the f.uck up"


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

sammym said:


> He's also helped some members both on the board and via private message.
> 
> Whether he competed or not - isn't relevant to the advice he gives to people who are in no way at the level to compete.
> 
> I'm not knocking you at all. But he's not a bad bloke. Not many people would be happy to answer bone PM's from people like myself.


Many people would help on this board. Make a post and see...

I am not dismissing his charity to other members, it's the one thing he does add positive to the board.


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

PHMG said:


> Either way, you still sound like a bitch. Coming in a thread and chucking around your comments acting like some bodybuilding policeman. I personally like banzi so your previous comments and you can "shut the f.uck up"


And your opinion matter fcuk all. To me or anyone else.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi has competed, for da rec0rd mane.

but i'm glad i'm not the reason a thread went to sh1t for once, yeahhhh!


----------



## Jammy Dodger (Nov 2, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Many people would help on this board. Make a post and see...
> 
> I am not dismissing his charity to other members, it's the one thing he does add positive to the board.


I have received the help from many members on the board. And at my own level have tried to help others. I'm unlikely to stay around if I didn't get anything out of it, and my rather embarrassing post count for time spent here shows that I do. But I'll say it again - how many people are willing to offer (repeatedly) help any member as much as they can via PM? I wouldn't want to invest the time and energy into doing that. To call him just a troll is a bit harsh.

That being said - I like him anyway. He cracks me up with some of his one liners.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I tel you what. Delhi, Banzai and Tommy Bananas would make for a great episode of come dine with me


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> banzi has competed, for da rec0rd mane.
> 
> but i'm glad i'm not the reason a thread went to sh1t for once, yeahhhh!


Where, what class and how did he place?


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Delhi said:


> Where, what class and how did he place?


Not my place to share that information, but he has competed.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Delhi said:


> Where, what class and how did he place?


Who cares though really. Competing doesn't define your ability to bodybuilding, just your ability to show it off. Means fu.ck all.


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

sammym said:


> He's also helped some members both on the board and via private message.


How do you know he's helped them? Perhap he's just filled them with chit and they believed it just like his fake pictures lolz


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> I tel you what. Delhi, Banzai and Tommy Bananas would make for a great episode of come dine with me


I would LOVE that 

Let's do it


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

There's a lot of opionated people on here, a lot with opposing views who like to argue their points. At the same time most of those people are pretty helpful. @banzi has given me advice via pm and once you get past his wind ups is a helpful bloke.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Delhi said:


> The thing is banzi admits himself he is a forum troll. I like a debate and discussion but look over his posts and all you ever see is him stirring the sh1t with someone. People have a right to an opinion, banzi feels his opinion is the only opinion. But the truth is when he is called out he slips and slithers away.
> 
> Debating is good for the board, intentionally causing disruption and arguments is unhealthy. Even if he was knowledgable (trust me ain't) rather than attempt to belittle other members he should try and explain his opinion. More and more members are tired of him and I recieve reputation posts nearly all the time when I challenge his "authority".
> 
> *He is smart but not that smart.*



View attachment 166263


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

FelonE said:


> There's a lot of opionated people on here, a lot with opposing views who like to argue their points. At the same time most of those people are pretty helpful. @banzi has given me advice via pm and once you get past wind ups is a helpful bloke.


banzi is like a different person in pm ain't he, lol.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> I tel you what. Delhi, Banzai and Tommy Bananas would make for a great episode of come dine with me


saxondale, too.

FelonE can be my naked butler when its my turn.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> banzi is like a different person in pm ain't he, lol.


He's a good bloke who likes to 'debate' lol. Much like yourself Tommy lol.


----------



## Jammy Dodger (Nov 2, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> How do you know he's helped them? Perhap he's just filled them with chit and they believed it just like his fake pictures lolz


Because whilst I might not always do the right things - I have been training in some capacity for over a decade. I've trained with professional athletes and have worked under competent strength and conditioning coaches.

I wasn't saying banzi was telling me how to do an exercise. He just made some points which I already knew to be true and which got my mind thinking about what I actually wanted to achieve.

Let's agree to disagree on this one. I think he's sound and funny. I think the forum would be rubbish without people like him, tommy and even saxondale. They make it a lot more interesting.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> saxondale, too.
> 
> FelonE can be my naked butler when its my turn.


I'm in.


----------



## the wee man (Dec 17, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> I tel you what. Delhi, Banzai and Tommy Bananas would make for a great episode of come dine with me


do you not need 4 people for that tv show ?

i vote Felone to be the 4th participant,make for a better atmosphere :lol:

cheers shaun


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I'm in.


I can't feel anything.


----------



## the wee man (Dec 17, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I'm in.


fecking hell mate

great minds and all that :beer: :lol:

cheers shaun


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> saxondale, too.
> 
> FelonE can be my naked butler when its my turn.


yes and sackondale (though I agree with him on half his points). I'm up for it. Let's see who has the balls...


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> I can't feel anything.


That's what she said.


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

Normally it's 2 males and 2 females lol


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

the wee man said:


> do you not need 4 people for that tv show ?
> 
> i vote Felone to be the 4th participant,make for a better atmosphere :lol:
> 
> cheers shaun


While felone might be great company I don't disagree with most of his points. Only worth doing if it's going to be heated


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

sauliuhas said:


> Normally it's 2 males and 2 females lol


Mis pinky and kristina then


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

I'm too OCD to go to the gym and not write down every exercise, weight, and reps I do. I have always done it since I started about 20 months ago. It would kill me mentally not to do that, I wouldn't be able to not do that. I even write down which gym I go to because the equipment is different in different places. I lift for strength though so I only care about my weights and reps going up.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> I'm too OCD to go to the gym and not write down every exercise, weight, and reps I do. I have always done it since I started about 20 months ago. It would kill me mentally not to do that, I wouldn't be able to not do that. *I even write down which gym I go to because the equipment is different in different places*. I lift for strength though so I only care about my weights and reps going up.


Damn dumbells.


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

banzi said:


>


Hahahaha that is hilarious! So funny hearing them swearing at each other in Russian!


----------



## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

View attachment 166271


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

The funny thing is, no matter how good of results you're seeing now by just "going in and doing whatever you feel like etc" if you started tracking macros/calories to a tee and really focused on proper progression in the gym you would see even better results guaranteed.

Ironic really, why would you not want better results?


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> The funny thing is, no matter how good of results you're seeing now by just "going in and doing whatever you feel like etc" if you started tracking macros/calories to a tee and really focused on proper progression in the gym you would see even better results guaranteed.
> 
> Ironic really, why would you not want better results?


50% effort for 95% results.

Sounds perfect to me. Can focus more on other aspects of my life and worry about things that matter rather than if I'm hitting my macros


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

PHMG said:


> 50% effort for 95% results.
> 
> Sounds perfect to me. Can focus more on other aspects of my life and worry about things that matter rather than if I'm hitting my macros


Takes literally 2 minutes to add up everything you've ate into myfitnesspal.

If you haven't got 2 minutes, I assume you never go to the loo (I do it on that mostly lmao), never travelling, never walking anywhere, don't have 2 minutes before you sleep when laying in bed.

So the question is 5% more results worth 2 minutes a day of your time?

Hope you get my point bro


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> 50% effort for 95% results.
> 
> Sounds perfect to me. *Can focus more on other aspects of my life and worry about things that matter rather than if I'm hitting my macros *


this...

If I had to count cals and macros and write down workouts I wouldnt bother.

Its a hobby , its not my life, I like looking good, I smile when I get stared at by Russian and German women on holiday when they look back at their fat waste of space slob 20 something boyfriends.

Lifes great.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> *Takes literally 2 minutes to add up everything you've ate into myfitnesspal. *
> 
> If you haven't got 2 minutes, I assume you never go to the loo (I do it on that mostly lmao), never travelling, never walking anywhere, don't have 2 minutes before you sleep when laying in bed.
> 
> ...


But thats just it, you live your life based on what an App tells you.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> But thats just it, you live your life based on what an App tells you.


No, I don't.

I know how many calories I eat by what an app tells me and that's it..


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

This cheered me up to no end


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> No, I don't.
> 
> I know how many calories I eat by what an app tells me and that's it..


so if you want something more to eat you just ignore it?


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> No, I don't.
> 
> I know how many calories I eat by what an app tells me and that's it..


But why??? Why do you need to know how many calories you have eaten??


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> so if you want something more to eat you just ignore it?


No I eat it if I want it and then reduce the next days etc accordingly, or I just eat it and don't give a fuk (but accept It may be counter productive to my goals)



PHMG said:


> But why??? Why do you need to know how many calories you have eaten??


Because i have a goal (bulk or cut) and eating a certain amount over my maintenance helps me bulk efficiently and eating a certain amount under helps Me cut efficiently.

What's hard to understand about that? 2 mins of my day to make sure I'm on track towards my goal rather than guessing.

I could guess and end up in an average 300 calorie deficit taking me 8 weeks to cut my desired bodyfat, or I can spend 2 minutes and make sure I'm getting. 500 calorie deficit and cut in 6 weeks.

Therefore that 2 minutes a day has saved me 2 weeks of dieting or whatever


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> Takes literally 2 minutes to add up everything you've ate into myfitnesspal.
> 
> If you haven't got 2 minutes, I assume you never go to the loo (I do it on that mostly lmao), never travelling, never walking anywhere, don't have 2 minutes before you sleep when laying in bed.
> 
> ...


No, I don't get your point. Why exactly would logging my calories on an app give me a 5% increase in results


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

PHMG said:


> No, I don't get your point. Why exactly would logging my calories on an app give me a 5% increase in results


7.5% better results........ Or your money back.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

PHMG said:


> No, I don't get your point. Why exactly would logging my calories on an app give me a 5% increase in results


See my example above. Only used 5% as that was your example


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> No I eat it if I want it and then reduce the next days etc accordingly, or I just eat it and don't give a fuk (but accept It may be counter productive to my goals)
> 
> Because i have a goal (bulk or cut) and eating a certain amount over my maintenance helps me bulk efficiently and eating a certain amount under helps Me cut efficiently.
> 
> ...


how many cals do you burn in a day?


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

Ah this thread has been awesome.

@banzi provides entertainment if you ask me but I suppose not everyone gets his sense of humour.

It's not a bad thing to have your opinion/knowledge challenged either, it's how we learn new sh1t ffs.

Helpful bloke in pm too.

But I get along with most people, there is probably only one person on this entire forum who p1sses me off.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> how many cals do you burn in a day?


Your going fishing arnt you banzi


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Ah this thread has been awesome.
> 
> @banzi provides entertainment if you ask me but I suppose not everyone gets his sense of humour.
> 
> ...


Saxonfail?


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> See my example above. Only used 5% as that was your example


See. My whole point of this is that I'm probably a bit different to everyone else.

I'd rather eat whatever I want and then do tons of cardio and training to create a calorie deficit.

This way, I don't have to worry about logging anything of calorie calculators or macro breakdowns.

Just get in the gym, get my headphones on, and get on with it.

I appreciate others may want to do as little work as is necessary and count every last calorie though... :whistling:


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Saxonfail?


Nope!



Merkleman said:


> I don't mean it mate, honestly.


Haha nothing but love <3

I quoted him earlier and do it regularly, talks nothing but chit and constantly claims to be the strongest man in the world.....


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> Your going fishing arnt you banzi


check your PMs


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

SelflessSelfie said:


> Nope!
> 
> Haha nothing but love <3
> 
> I quoted him earlier and do it regularly, talks nothing but chit and constantly claims to be the strongest man in the world.....


Eddie Hall?


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

PHMG said:


> See. My whole point of this is that I'm probably a bit different to everyone else.
> 
> I'd rather eat whatever I want and then do tons of cardio and training to create a calorie deficit.
> 
> ...


Confusing how throughout the thread you've been banging on about over complicating and wasting time counting calories etc and now you're saying that you'd rather spend hours more in the gym etc then just spending 2 mins making sure you have the correct deficit or surplus to get the same/better results.

Contradiction at its finest..


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> how many cals do you burn in a day?


Because 3500 calories in 1lb of fat, if I eat at a certain number (which I understand to be 500 below my maintenance) and lose 1lb, in a week, I known im roughly there and also know what my maintenance is.

same principle for eating at maintenance and not going/losing weight.

i can see now you're trolling, or you really are that unknowledgable and just used a ton of drugs for that physique (which some say are fake pictures anyways)

I like to bite


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Eddie Hall?


But he's so big and cuddly!


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jalex said:


> Because 3500 calories in 1lb of fat, if I eat at a certain number (which I understand to be 500 below my maintenance) and lose 1lb, in a week, I known im roughly there and also know what my maintenance is.
> 
> same principle for eating at maintenance and not going/losing weight.
> 
> ...


What he's saying is you don't know how many calories you burn,therefore how can you know how many calories to take in.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> As opposed to not knowing anyway and eating anything without any structure?
> 
> What Jalex is saying, is right - but I cba to be involved in this petty crap anymore.
> 
> ...


Go to bed your tired lol.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> Confusing how throughout the thread you've been banging on about over complicating and wasting time counting calories etc and now you're saying that you'd rather spend hours more in the gym etc then just spending 2 mins making sure you have the correct deficit or surplus to get the same/better results.
> 
> Contradiction at its finest..


Not at all. your missing the point totally. Our calorie needs and expenditures vary day to day. knowing a few numbers means fuc.k all.

However, I like training and even enjoy cardio. Nothing complicated about walking on a treadmill, eating food and lifting weights and putting them down again


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> I feel ded, I can't wait to blast, fvck cruising on a poverty TRT dose. #drugdependence


Junkie lol.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> *Because 3500 calories in 1lb of fa*t, if I eat at a certain number (which I understand to be 500 below my maintenance) and lose 1lb, in a week, I known im roughly there and also know what my maintenance is.
> 
> same principle for eating at maintenance and not going/losing weight.
> 
> ...


Are you sure?

A gram of fat = 9 cals

453 grams in a pound

453x9 = 4077 cals.

Dont tell me you have been getting it wrong all this time.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> As opposed to not knowing anyway and eating anything without any structure?
> 
> What Jalex is saying, is right - but I cba to be involved in this petty crap anymore.
> 
> ...


Yet.....here you.....are


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> *Doesn't matter if they vary day to day, they vary day to day if you count macros or not, but most peoples expenditure will be similar weekly, people who work will do the same things, people who don't work will do the same things (roughly) - if you are for some reason doing loads more exercise for a few dayss or you're away for a few days walking loads, you could use your brain and eat a few extra calories.*
> 
> We get it, you like to wing it and so on, but the way you're looking at calorie ccounting and macro counting is backwards. You did contradict yourself about 'time' it takes too, when you're willing to walk for an hour or more and do loads of exercise if you eat more, etc.


And you are trying to build a case FOR counting?


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> Doesn't matter if they vary day to day, they vary day to day if you count macros or not, but most peoples expenditure will be similar weekly, people who work will do the same things, people who don't work will do the same things (roughly) - if you are for some reason doing loads more exercise for a few dayss or you're away for a few days walking loads, you could use your brain and eat a few extra calories.
> 
> We get it, you like to wing it and so on, but the way you're looking at calorie ccounting and macro counting is backwards. You did contradict yourself about 'time' it takes too, when you're willing to walk for an hour or more and do loads of exercise if you eat more, etc.


It's not about the time it takes. It just seems pointless logging calories. I bet your calories expenditure can vary a few hundred calories each day even when you think you are doing the same thing. So these numbers just don't make sense.

And not even about winging it as you make it sound like I have my physique from luck. Not the case at all. I eat good food up I until I train, and then after that it's free for all as my body will suck up everything I throw at it.

That's something your calorie counting doesn't account for. I don't like to call it nutrient timing as that makes it sound complicated but that's what it is really. Also known as feeding the recovery or pigging out after a big weights session. 70's style bodybuilding at its finest.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> It's not about the time it takes. It just seems pointless logging calories. I bet your calories expenditure can vary a few hundred calories each day even when you think you are doing the same thing. So these numbers just don't make sense.
> 
> And not even about winging it as you make it sound like I have my physique from luck. Not the case at all. I eat good food up I until I train, and then after that it's free for all as my body will suck up everything I throw at it.
> 
> That's something your calorie counting doesn't account for. I don't like to call it nutrient timing as that makes it sound complicated but that's what it is really. Also known as feeding the recovery or pigging out after a big weights session. 70's style bodybuilding at its finest.


check your PM again

Im no weirdo.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> check your PM again
> 
> Im no weirdo.


Hahaha. I'm winding you up. Come on, you are supposed to be top troll of the moment !!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> Hahaha. I'm winding you up. Come on, you are supposed to be top troll of the moment !!


Right, Im switching (downloads calorie app)


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> Lots of bodybuilders counted calories. I've told you this earlier in the thread.
> 
> You just have poor understanding of how useful calorie counting is.


Yes...lots of forum using bodybuilders.

Can you imagine Arnie and Lou sat there pulling out their smartphones every few hours to update their macros for the day .

And just so you know, I'm it that much of a di.ck to see that it's not useful for some. I'm just saying I think it's stupid.

You know who else logs everything they eat and panics about total daily calories....people with eating disorders...


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I think people do over complicate things.

I've never counted calories, I just eat a balanced diet with a fair amount of junk here and there and train 2-3 times a week.

Never got myself stupid lean but look pretty good in a tshirt, which is all that 90% of gym goers want.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

PHMG said:


> Yes...lots of forum using bodybuilders.
> 
> Can you imagine Arnie and Lou sat there pulling out their smartphones every few hours to update their macros for the day .
> 
> ...


They did, rather than a smartphone they would keep it in a journal using books to determine how calorie dense foods were. Dur


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> Right, Im switching (downloads calorie app)


Bet you can't wait for all those extra gainzzzzzzzz


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

View attachment 166277


L.e.t.t.u.c.e l.e.a.f = 9 calories


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> They did, rather than a smartphone they would keep it in a journal using books to determine how calorie dense foods were. Dur


Yes, a basic list of what food has what calories/protein. Not a constant log of exact daily macros and total calories


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

TommyBananas said:


> Pretty sure Arnold talked about him counting calories in his books. He used to use those old school books which had the calories for foods in.


See above post.

Old school boys did 2 hour long training sessions.

If they were counting the calories consumed, then surely they would be logging the expenditure....

So how would one quantify a 2 hour training session that's different every time???

Theory debunked


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> View attachment 166277
> 
> 
> L.e.t.t.u.c.e l.e.a.f = 9 calories


What size leaf though? Is it iceberg lettuce or the cheap ****e you get in salad mixes? What country of origin is the lettuce?

Need to get this right or macros might be off.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

SelflessSelfie said:


> What size leaf though? Is it iceberg lettuce or the cheap ****e you get in salad mixes? What country of origin is the lettuce?
> 
> Need to get this right or macros might be off.


And then how many calories will be burnt chewing and digesting the leaf....Come on banzi...WE NEED THE NUMBERS!!!!!!


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

I should really go to sleep but this is too entertaining 

Yes this is fun to me....I have a new born and don't get out much anymore.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> No, they *counted* calories. But a minute ago you said they did nothing, basically.


Do you think they wrote down numbers like 271 in their books?


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

PHMG said:


> And then how many calories will be burnt chewing and digesting the leaf....Come on banzi...WE NEED THE NUMBERS!!!!!!


Fvck sake, hope he measures the leaf properly and gives us the entire 3d area of the leaf and none of this 2d measurement sh1t, only way to be sure.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I have to have another leaf now to take into consideration all this typing.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> I have to have another leaf now to take into consideration all this typing.


But what about all the stress this leaf is causing us. My blood pressure is through the roof. cortisol is up and my heart rate is increasing meaning more calories burnt.

S.HIT!!!!! Somebody get me another leaf fast. my macros havent accounted for this!!!!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If the item said, 271 calories, yeah.


No, no they wouldnt.

do you seriously weigh each item of cooked food before you eat it?


----------



## SelflessSelfie (May 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> I have to have another leaf now to take into consideration all this typing.


Did you weigh it? Was it a bigger leaf? Might have gone over your macros, gonna get fat now!


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Just love how people resort to trolling/acting like they don't care when they are completely obliterated in a debate.

My work is done, night folks.

inwant to be leaf


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Just love how people resort to trolling/acting like they don't care when they are completely obliterated in a debate.
> 
> *My work is done,* night folks.
> 
> inwant to be leaf


shirker.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> Just love how people resort to trolling/acting like they don't care when they are completely obliterated in a debate.
> 
> My work is done, night folks.
> 
> inwant to be leaf


The only thing that wins in the debate is whose physique holds the most muscle.

This comes down to the biggest drug abuser....Not the one with the best calorie counting app.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> Just love how people resort to trolling/acting like they don't care when they are completely obliterated in a debate.
> 
> My work is done, night folks.
> 
> inwant to be leaf


And have you accounted for sleep walking in your calorie counting. you could be using several hundred calories extra a night and not even know!!!!!!


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

PHMG said:


> And have you accounted for sleep walking in your calorie counting. you could be using several hundred calories extra a night and not even know!!!!!!


No I just upped my doses a few hundred mg  . No need to think about stuff now


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Jalex said:


> No I just upped my doses a few hundred mg  . No need to think about stuff now


Good thinking. Chuck in some quality products from Extreme Labs as well whilst you are at it. I recommend their XL rebellion.


----------



## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

This conversation is massively aimed/relevant to natties, once drugs are introduced then the macro counting becomes even less important,

The only people I've ever seen that have a decent body yet wing everything are assisted as it's easier to manage results


----------



## Red Viper (Mar 14, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> wat? it was bro-science that said you couldn't eat more than 30g protein per meal or it was wasted
> 
> wat? it was bro-science that says eat 6-8 meals a day for a fast metabolism
> 
> ...


Misinterpreted science is used by both sides, you just used it as well.

Insulin does affect fat loss in a deficit, it may not be a major difference but it does have a proven physiological effect due to it inhibiting hormone sensitive lipase.

What you fail to understand is that a deficit is simply a change in energy, this is where people start to bring in the 1st law of thermodynamics (I won't touch on this more as it is way more complicated in the physics sense)

So a deficit causes you to call on stored energy in order to balance the energy requirements of the body, the body has a hierarchy of pathways to determine what energy sources are used, at rest to about 55-60% Vo2max this is fats. However if the pathway is inhibited, such as insulin inhibiting HSL the body is.forced to recruit another pathway in order to continue to meet the energy requirements of the body.

This is the second time I have tried explaining this to you. IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE SCIENTIFIC REASON TO PROVE A POINT YOU HAVE TO USE IT CORRECTLY. STOP MAKING BLANKET STATEMENTS


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Red Viper said:


> Misinterpreted science is used by both sides, you just used it as well.
> 
> Insulin does affect fat loss in a deficit, it may not be a major difference but it does have a proven physiological effect due to it inhibiting hormone sensitive lipase.
> 
> ...



View attachment 166309


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> View attachment 166309


Argh, I always secretly hoped you had skinny legs and now you've changed your avi picture!!

*scuttles off to count his macros before his 5 a side football to work his legs*


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Argh, I always secretly hoped you had skinny legs and now you've changed your avi picture!!
> 
> *scuttles off to count his macros before his 5 a side football to work his legs*


Its a fake picture remember :lol:

@banzi

Your trolling is going to lose all credibility now you have that avi up. Go back to the chinese guy with glasses please


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> Its a fake picture remember :lol:
> 
> @banzi
> 
> Your trolling is going to lose all credibility now you have that avi up. *Go back to the chinese guy with glasses please *


That pic is me before I started training.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

denbec said:


> My only hope is , that your ugly as foook :lol:


I reckon he still has a mullet.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I reckon he still has a mullet.


No mullet but I do have a full head of hair, no balding.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> No mullet but I do have a full head of hair, no balding.


Unless you post a picture with a ladle on your head hanging from a tree with a wedding dress on and 7 dwarfs masterbating beneath you....I call bulls.hit


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

PHMG said:


> Unless you post a picture with a ladle on your head hanging from a tree with a wedding dress on and 7 dwarfs masterbating beneath you....I call bulls.hit


TommyBananas and his 6 transformation crew?


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

BLUE(UK) said:


> TommyBananas and his 6 transformation crew?


All logging the calories and macros of the cum flying in each other's mouths.

.....I've got a semi!


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

PHMG said:


> All logging the calories and macros of the cum flying in each other's mouths.
> 
> .....I've got a semi!


Oh dear, my Friday evening is ruined!! :death:


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

AlQaholic said:


> Rank lol


Homophobe!!!


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Bump this up as it's one of the most sensible post of advice I've read to date!

If you never read an article in your life about BB you would come to this conclusion by your self through trail and error.

I've training logs going back to 1994 and then I was reading every article every written, about diet, training, and tried every permutation of them. etc make just as much progress with the "sod it attitude " get to them gym, work hard, go home and eat. Too fat slow down, too thin speed up.

Every one loves to quote top BBs but 99.999% of gym blokes are not after that and will never get anywhere near it. What they do should not be emphasises on. Basics right is vital


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

unfortunately simple doesn't sell mate....


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

banzi said:


> unfortunately simple doesn't sell mate....


 Like supplements, apparently we need 100 different types now.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

If personal trainers were honest and told it like it was they would never make any money.

They just over complicate things to keep you believing you are special.


----------



## gymfreak2010 (Jan 6, 2016)

banzi said:


> If personal trainers were honest and told it like it was they would never make any money.
> 
> They just over complicate things to keep you believing you are special.


 I've watched what these PT's get their clients doing & it's laughable


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


 so bodybuilding for skinny dummies then?

this isn't directed at you specifically, but this exemplifies bodybuilding advice in general and how useless it is to anyone who is overweight.


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

andyboro said:


> so bodybuilding for skinny dummies then?
> 
> this isn't directed at you specifically, but this exemplifies bodybuilding advice in general and how useless it is to anyone who is overweight.


 actually its spot on I reckon, if you are fat eat less, move more, you will lose weight. Sure we can talk about the specifics but essentially its fannying around the basic principles. Just done it myself in the last month, got pissed at how much of a gut I got, sure I can blame the protein, carbs, creatine for bloating me etc. Dropped cal, kept protein high and hey low and behold the abs are starting to come through.

Look at the sh#te that comes out of weight watchers, I know several people in that and even they they have a bad track record the constantly over complicate things. It's a huge business. I have to grit my teeth when I hear fatties talk how complicated it is all they while they sit there shoving pasta into their face


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

JohhnyC said:


> actually its spot on I reckon, if you are fat eat less, move more, you will lose weight. Sure we can talk about the specifics but essentially its fannying around the basic principles. Just done it myself in the last month, got pissed at how much of a gut I got, sure I can blame the protein, carbs, creatine for bloating me etc. Dropped cal, kept protein high and hey low and behold the abs are starting to come through.
> 
> Look at the sh#te that comes out of weight watchers, I know several people in that and even they they have a bad track record the constantly over complicate things. It's a huge business. I have to grit my teeth when I hear fatties talk how complicated it is all they while they sit there shoving pasta into their face


 Weight watcher is far more useful for someone really struggling with weight that 'just eat less'... it teaches (through their own methodology) portion control and a form of calorie counting. There's a world of difference between verging on obese and a bit of a gut.

I'm going to assume that you've never been really fat?

in my experience (and from my own experience) you don't realise the level to which you are overeating.. if you realise it at all and think that the only way to lose weight is to embark on some f**ked up, excessive regime that is really likely to fail, resulting in yo-yoing and never really making any progress.

if 'Just eat less' was a methodology that worked then 60% of the nation wouldn't be overweight.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> so bodybuilding for skinny dummies then?
> 
> this isn't directed at you specifically, but this exemplifies bodybuilding advice in general and how useless it is to anyone who is overweight.


 overweight people should get down to a reasonable level of BF before they start thinking about bodybuilding.


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

andyboro said:


> Weight watcher is far more useful for someone really struggling with weight that 'just eat less'... it teaches (through their own methodology) portion control and a form of calorie counting. There's a world of difference between verging on obese and a bit of a gut.
> 
> I'm going to assume that you've never been really fat?
> 
> ...


 Well I'd say that's an educational thing then and that I agree with, it can be hard now to see what foods are the offending factors, but I think in the westerner world we love tp make excuses for failure rather than take responsibility

I live in China and you rarely ever see a fat girl here, they detest it, and hate going to the gym but the vast vast majority keep their weight down by eating very little. Most seem around 45-50kg. Now the guys are different, many have a gut as they don't really care, so its not genetics, its a life style choice


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> overweight people should get down to a reasonable level of BF before they start thinking about bodybuilding.


 without calorie counting and just by 'eating less'? That seems to be based on the assumption that they know what they're doing wrong in the first place.. which lots don't. The amount of perma-fat blokes in gyms are testament to this.

simplifying to that level just wont work for most.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> Weight watcher is far more useful for someone really struggling with weight that 'just eat less'... it teaches (through their own methodology) portion control and a form of calorie counting. There's a world of difference between verging on obese and a bit of a gut.
> 
> I'm going to assume that you've never been really fat?
> 
> ...


 don't talk so daft, everyone know if they are eating too much, slimming world and weight watchers are way too over complicated (syns FFS) anyone can lose weight eating lean meats and vegetables.

the clubs mentioned are a business designed to keep the majority of members fat.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> without calorie counting and just by 'eating less'? That seems to be based on the assumption that they know what they're doing wrong in the first place.. which lots don't. The amount of perma-fat blokes in gyms are testament to this.
> 
> simplifying to that level just wont work for most.


 and you can rectify what they are doing wrong in 5 minutes, it doesn't take months of personal training.

and it doesn't work for them because they have no fu**ing will power to stick to it


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

JohhnyC said:


> Well I'd say that's an educational thing then and that I agree with, it can be hard now to see what foods are the offending factors, but I think in the westerner world we love tp make excuses for failure rather than take responsibility
> 
> I live in China and you rarely ever see a fat girl here, they detest it, and hate going to the gym but the vast vast majority keep their weight down by eating very little. Most seem around 45-50kg. Now the guys are different, many have a gut as they don't really care, so its not genetics, its a life style choice


 It's definitely a cultural thing and there's definitely a modicum of ignorance in there too - Thats probably the most important thing to break and why I can't agree with the 'don't count calories' advice.. It's a really effective way of forcing realisation.


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> don't talk so daft, everyone know if they are eating too much, slimming world and weight watchers are way too over complicated (syns FFS) anyone can lose weight eating lean meats and vegetables.
> 
> the clubs mentioned are a business designed to keep the majority of members fat.


 syns are the other one.. weight watchers are points (cos that simpler than calories).

100%, even at nearly 18 stone I didn't think that I ate badly - I figured everyone else must be super strict to get anywhere.

Its the blame/ignorance thing that @JohhnyC alluded to.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> It's definitely a cultural thing and there's definitely a modicum of ignorance in there too - Thats probably the most important thing to break and why I can't agree with the 'don't count calories' advice.. It's a really effective way of forcing realisation.


 you can count cals until you get a basic understanding of set amounts but its not important in the long term

I counted cals for the first 6 months or so of training, then you can look at a plate of food and make an educated guess as to whats in it.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> syns are the other one.. weight watchers are points (cos that simpler than calories).
> 
> 100%, even at nearly 18 stone I didn't think that I ate badly -* I figured everyone else must be super strict to get anywhere.*
> 
> Its the blame/ignorance thing that @JohhnyC alluded to.


 they were in a deficit, you had no willpower to stick to it and deliberately underestimated what you were eating.


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> you can count cals until you get a basic understanding of set amounts but its not important in the long term
> 
> I counted cals for the first 6 months or so of training, then you can look at a plate of food and make an educated guess as to whats in it.


 I agree with that totally - I count every now and then to make sure I've stayed on track but not religiously any more, or if something looks like it may be a bit excessive then i'll stick it in MFP to see what to drop/change.


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> they were in a deficit, you had no willpower to stick to it and deliberately underestimated what you were eating.


 I know this now lol.

at the time though it was easier to make out like I was trying but not getting very far.. It needed to be in my face on a daily basis for a while for me to realise.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> I know this now lol.
> 
> at the time though it was easier to make out like I was trying but not getting very far.. It needed to be in my face on a daily basis for a while for me to realise.


 and if you had known me back then I could have sorted you out in 5 minutes and it wouldn't have cost you a fiver a week and all the shitty foods they sell you


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> and if you had known me back then I could have sorted you out in 5 minutes and it wouldn't have cost you a fiver a week and all the shitty foods they sell you


 I never used weight watchers myself - I opted to be fat for a big chunk of my adult life instead.

I know its pretty simple really, its just seemingly difficult to realise that.


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

andyboro said:


> It's definitely a cultural thing and there's definitely a modicum of ignorance in there too - Thats probably the most important thing to break and why I can't agree with the 'don't count calories' advice.. It's a really effective way of forcing realisation.


 I think if counting calories works for people then sure why not. It can be surprising what you find every now and then especially with things like chain store fancy sandwiches especially as they are heavily marketed as healthy and we normally don't associate fat people as healthy. I downloaded that app everyone is on about MyfitnessPal, sure I see that being useful, but it hasn't really told me anything I didn't know, stay out of Gregs the bakers and go to the meat and veg section in Tescos

Actually it was an interesting experience for me here in China, last year I was baffled as to why I was putting on fat as my diet seemed ok (ish) and the volume of food was much lower than UK and still feeling hungry. But I started to realise that here many many people eat out almost every day. Its as cheap eating out as cooking but here they load everything with some sh#te oil, you literally cannot get vegetables that are not covered in oil, the same goes for the meat, the quantity is small but its smothered in a sauce or oily flavouring. Again no western app is going to work out the calories for you but a rethink and problem easily solved. Back to basics


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

JohhnyC said:


> I think if counting calories works for people then sure why not. It can be surprising what you find every now and then especially with things like chain store fancy sandwiches especially as they are heavily marketed as healthy and we normally don't associate fat people as healthy. I downloaded that app everyone is on about MyfitnessPal, sure I see that being useful, but it hasn't really told me anything I didn't know, stay out of Gregs the bakers and go to the meat and veg section in Tescos
> 
> Actually it was an interesting experience for me here in China, last year I was baffled as to why I was putting on fat as my diet seemed ok (ish) and the volume of food was much lower than UK and still feeling hungry. But I started to realise that here many many people eat out almost every day. Its as cheap eating out as cooking but here they load everything with some sh#te oil, you literally cannot get vegetables that are not covered in oil, the same goes for the meat, the quantity is small but its smothered in a sauce or oily flavouring. Again no western app is going to work out the calories for you but a rethink and problem easily solved. Back to basics


 It's a great tool for learning whats in what for sure. I don't think anyone needs to use if forever but it can be very educational!

the supermarket sandwich thing is a great example.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> Training
> 
> Weights are there as tools to enable you to develop your muscles and sculpt your body.
> 
> ...


 Sounds way over complicated to me.

What you selling Banzi?


----------



## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Sounds way over complicated to me.
> 
> What you selling Banzi?


 More important how much?

I can't afford more than £200 lol

S


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Sounds way over complicated to me.
> 
> What you selling Banzi?[IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_biggrin.png&key=3d9b813e9a87eeafe9eb5315811d63098fc9b7e078435d33be7c3389b539a069[/IMG]


 You have to wait until he's lured us all in....


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> You have to wait until he's lured us all in....


 He already lost me in a myriad of information overload. :lol:


----------



## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

Enjoyable read this


----------



## Joy40 (Mar 15, 2017)

Jalex said:


> They did, rather than a smartphone they would keep it in a journal using books to determine how calorie dense foods were. Dur


 My father was a "lifter" and he kept a page of about 30 meals. He had a nutritionist make them up. Then he just wrote down the number next to the meal.


----------



## Joy40 (Mar 15, 2017)

PHMG said:


> See above post.
> 
> Old school boys did 2 hour long training sessions.
> 
> ...


 Logging food/counting calories is different then estimated how much your burned.


----------

