# The mentality of cutting!



## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

So, currently around 3 weeks into a focussed cut that just started out as a diet 8 weeks ago and eventually led me back into training.

I'm -500kcal down on maintenance but weight loss feels really slow and arduous, loosing less than a lb a week and @ 16% bodyfat. Ideally I wan't to get to 10%.

I'm still regaining strength at a rapid rate and apart from deadlifts and squats I'm nearly back to where I was 8 months ago when I stopped training.

I find myself constantly second guessing what I'm doing is right even though for the most part my diet is 100% clean and my average kcal deficit is bang on the money over a week.

Does anybody else ever get like this? Almost like I have this voice in the back of my head saying 'this just isn't going to work'....


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## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

It's 'losing', not 'loosing'.

And don't sweat it, just do what you're doing if it's working, even if it's working slowly.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

bartonz20let said:


> So, currently around 3 weeks into a focussed cut that just started out as a diet 8 weeks ago and eventually led me back into training.
> 
> I'm -500kcal down on maintenance but weight loss feels really slow and arduous, loosing less than a lb a week and @ 16% bodyfat. Ideally I wan't to get to 10%.
> 
> ...


It can be a slow process mate.Drop cals another 100 for a week see how you feel


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Also try cleaning up your diet completely


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## DaveW3000 (Mar 25, 2013)

This is why alot of people get prep coaches, its such a mental game and our minds constantly trying sabotage our hard work and progress.

Keep at it bud! Sounds like you've got the diet and training nailed.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

If you have just returned to training after a lay off then I wouldn't get obsessed with the scale weight.

Yes it's encouraging to see it drop, but you may well be building muscle too (especially with a training past, muscle memory!)

The mind can feck with you, *consistency* and *patience* are key mate.

Keep training hard, do some cardio (HIIT or LISS or a COMBO), keep the diet clean with the odd treat and keep plodding away.

Monitor results with a combination of mirror/pictures / measurements / bodyfat calipers and only jump on the scales once a week (Tops!)

Make SMALL adjustments when necessary, good luck.


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## Kiwi As (Nov 4, 2013)

Try splitting cardio into 2 sessions, AM and PM, or add another 10mins on the end of it.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Sack it off, go have a burger. Start again tomorrow.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

calories are set to high as you said gaining strength at a rapid rate my lifts drop on a cut if im not on aas


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drop to 1000 cals a day and just eat chicken , broccoli, 4 whole eggs and 2 or 3 teaspoons of peanut butter.

Thank me in 5 weeks when you are at 8%.


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

banzi said:


> Drop to 1000 cals a day and just eat chicken , broccoli, 4 whole eggs and 2 or 3 teaspoons of peanut butter.
> 
> Thank me in 5 weeks when you are at 8%.


I think the way you constantly state this extreme form of cutting diet is potentially damaging for a lot of people. Granted it's an effective method BUT isn't one that should be employed without careful consideration and unless necessary.

Small and minor adjustments are all that's needed to optimally drop BF at a decent rate, whilst keeping gym performance high and retaining muscle tissue. The above outlined diet just isn't something that's needed for the vast majority of people and their goals. I've never dropped below 2,700kcals on a diet and have been as ripped as most people.

What you're suggesting is maybe necessary for a competitive athlete in his final stages of diet, however even then food can usually be kept a lot higher than this if you're carrying any sort of muscle mass.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Bad Alan said:


> I think the way you constantly state this extreme form of cutting diet is *potentially damaging* for a lot of people. Granted it's an effective method BUT isn't one that should be employed without careful consideration and unless necessary.
> 
> Small and minor adjustments are all that's needed to optimally drop BF at a decent rate, whilst keeping gym performance high and retaining muscle tissue. The above outlined diet just isn't something that's needed for the vast majority of people and their goals. I've never dropped below 2,700kcals on a diet and have been as ripped as most people.
> 
> What you're suggesting is maybe necessary for a competitive athlete in his final stages of diet, however even then food can usually be kept a lot higher than this if you're carrying any sort of muscle mass.


Yes because you will shut down your metabolism. 

You can diet for 16 weeks or 6, its up to people how they want to do it.

The end result is the same granted.

I can get shredded on 2700 cals, but it would mean a long haul and cardio.

I would rather take 5 or 6 weeks of suffering.


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

banzi said:


> Yes because you will shut down your metabolism.
> 
> You can diet for 16 weeks or 6, its up to people how they want to do it.
> 
> ...


The end result is not the same.

If your way of dieting was the best way to do it then why isn't every pro tapping you up for advice? Because it's not optimal for keeping muscle mass.

You mentioned dropping kcals to 1,000 above. So taking into account 3 tablespoons of peanut butter is 285kcals, 2 whole eggs is 150kcals so that's 435kcals. That leaves 565kcals for protein - so 150g of protein. Nice way to cut NOT.

It is up to people how they do it and this may work well for someone like you. For most they will ATTEMPT your 1000 kcal diet and end up binge eating when they can't take the cravings and being completely drained and devoid of energy to even train. In the end they will be miserable and quit - not a productive way to diet.

If it suits you then fair play but it's advocation to the general trainer is less than productive.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Bad Alan said:


> The end result is not the same.
> 
> If your way of dieting was the best way to do it then why isn't every pro tapping you up for advice? Because it's not optimal for keeping muscle mass.
> 
> ...


teaspoons, not tablespoons.

If people dont have the willpower to stick to something hard to get results then thats their call.

My diet works for everyone, its easy to follow but hard to stick to.

Im just passing my opinions , its up to people what they choose to do.


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

banzi said:


> teaspoons, not tablespoons.
> 
> If people dont have the willpower to stick to something hard to get results then thats their call.
> 
> ...


Ok so sorry then it's 190g protein which on a diet with zero carbs isn't adequate IMO to maintain muscle mass of a lifter with any sort of size.

As you've said yes your opinion - I just think instead of blindly posting the same extreme dieting method to every one who posts about cutting, you should take some time and offer up the most suitable and sustainable approach. If that happens to be your diet then fair enough but in the massive majority of instances that will not be the case.

As a side note your diet doesn't work for everyone. Pretty sure any heavyweight bodybuilder would look like **** on stage if they adopted your 1000kcal system for a sustained period of time.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

banzi said:


> My diet works for everyone


LOL


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Bad Alan said:


> Ok so sorry then it's 190g protein which on a diet with zero carbs isn't adequate IMO to maintain muscle mass of a lifter with any sort of size.
> 
> As you've said yes your opinion - I just think instead of blindly posting the same extreme dieting method to every one who posts about cutting, you should take some time and offer up the most suitable and sustainable approach. If that happens to be your diet then fair enough but in the massive majority of instances that will not be the case.
> 
> *As a side note your diet doesn't work for everyone. Pretty sure any heavyweight bodybuilder would look like **** on stage if they adopted your 1000kcal system for a sustained period of time.*


Its about getting fat off in the quickest possible time.

Would a heavyweight bodybuilder use this approach up until show day, no , not at all.

We have different threads for different ways to hit optimum condition on show day.

This is the "losing weight" section isnt it?


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

banzi said:


> Its about getting fat off in the quickest possible time.
> 
> Would a heavyweight bodybuilder use this approach up until show day, no , not at all.
> 
> ...


Why in the quickest possible time, has the OP stated that? Sorry if I missed it.

My goal with any diet is optimal fat loss with sustained gym performance whilst retaining the highest amount of muscle tissue possible. For the average trainer that would need to include that the diet must be set up and controlled in a way that allows all the above on a consistent basis. So extreme and fad protocols don't fit the criteria.

Fair play if you're not bothered about the above.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Drop to 1000 cals a day and just eat chicken , broccoli, 4 whole eggs and 2 or 3 teaspoons of peanut butter.
> 
> Thank me in 5 weeks when you are at 8%.


I did that and lost all my muscle.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> I did that and lost all my muscle.


How long had you been training to accumulate all your muscle before you dieted like this and how long did it take to get it back?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> How long had you been training to accumulate all your muscle before you dieted like this and how long did it take to get it back?


8 months training, lost in 6 weeks dieting, regained in 6 months, lost in 3 months while not training over winter ( but noticable loss within 3 weeks) regained in 10 weeks to today

Ultra low calorie diets dont work for your normal man wanting to keep muscle mass

Approx dates


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> 8 months training, lost in 6 weeks dieting, regained in 6 months, lost in 3 months while not training over winter ( but noticable loss within 3 weeks) regained in 10 weeks to today
> 
> Ultra low calorie diets dont work for your normal man wanting to keep muscle mass
> 
> Approx dates


Do you think maybe you didnt actually have the muscle you thought you had before you started dieting?

People tend to overestimate how much muscle they have when they are bulked.

Its quite a reality check when they hit single digits BF.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Do you think maybe you didnt actually have the muscle you thought you had before you started dieting?
> 
> People tend to overestimate how much muscle they have when they are bulked.
> 
> Its quite a reality check when they hit single digits BF.


Cant say I've ever seen single figures mate, doubt I ever will but no, it was muscle.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

So your first 8 months of training resulted in you gaining x amount of muscle which you claim to have lost in 6 weeks of crash dieting which then took you another 6 months to put back.

Then you stopped training for 3 months and lost it all again now after 10 weeks you have it all back again.

Don't want to start an argument but its clear from that that you didn't have all that much muscle to lose in the first place.

How much muscle do you think you can gain in 8 months?

I think I need some more in depth stats to establish what happened here.


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

banzi said:


> So your first 8 months of training resulted in you gaining x amount of muscle which you claim to have lost in 6 weeks of crash dieting which then took you another 6 months to put back.
> 
> Then you stopped training for 3 months and lost it all again now after 10 weeks you have it all back again.
> 
> ...


 @saxondale I think this is meant for you but he hasn't quoted you.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Cutting is a slow process, it took me 8 months to lose over 40lb.

There is no quick fix!! - I def would not advise 1000 calories , sounds like eating disorder territory to me.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Northern Lass said:


> Cutting is a slow process, it took me 8 months to lose over 40lb.
> 
> There is no quick fix!! - I def would not advise 1000 calories , sounds like eating disorder territory to me.


I shed around 35lb in 11 or 12 weeks last year.

Half the time.

So, yes, there are quick fixes.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

banzi said:


> I shed around 35lb in 11 or 12 weeks last year.
> 
> Half the time.
> 
> So, yes, there are quick fixes.


Short fix maybe but not a long term one


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Northern Lass said:


> Short fix maybe but not a long term one


Why not?

Get yourself down to where you want to be then eat maintenance cals.

How hard can it be?


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

banzi said:


> Why not?
> 
> Get yourself down to where you want to be then eat maintenance cals.
> 
> How hard can it be?


Because for normal people with normal metabolisms the negative feedback signals from the body when you shock it with such a drastic drop in food will prevent you from sustaining fat loss at that level.

Hence why a PROPER diet consists of keeping food as high as possible at all times whilst OPTIMALLY losing fat mass.

Stop preaching your horrendous extreme dieting to the wrong crowd.

Bodybuilding and fitness is about more than extremes, yes myself and others are on the extreme end of the spectrum with what we do to our bodies and substances used, but not everyone should or wants to go to these levels. For a lot of people a more sensible cutting plan they can be consistent with is the way to go. Start tailoring advise instead of reeling off the same old fad crap. Just my opinion.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Why not?
> 
> Get yourself down to where you want to be then eat maintenance cals.
> 
> How hard can it be?


If it's so easy, why is a large % of country obese?

And to a lesser extent, even people who are experienced lifters would struggle with this type of diet you keep banging on about.

How naïve are you?

EDIT: ^^^Will put it better


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> If it's so easy, why is a large % of country obese?
> 
> And to a lesser extent, even people who are experienced lifters would struggle with this type of diet you keep banging on about.
> 
> ...


People are over weight because they eat too much.

I cant be blamed for the lack of willpower of people who cant stick to a diet.

Im not saying the diet is easy to follow mentally, its certainly the easiest to follow physically.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Hell why not just do a VLCD along with a little HCG... AKA 'The HCG Diet'

500 cals a day and 150iu HCG ED and bang you will drop 1lb A DAY, minimum.

The best diet is the one you can stick to long term IMO, get a healthy relationship with food and stop the yo yo effect.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> @saxondale I think this is meant for you but he hasn't quoted you.


Easy mistake to make.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> So your first 8 months of training resulted in you gaining x amount of muscle which you claim to have lost in 6 weeks of crash dieting which then took you another 6 months to put back.
> 
> Then you stopped training for 3 months and lost it all again now after 10 weeks you have it all back again.
> 
> ...


Read it again buddy, I describe losses and gains, not saying I start at x and finish at x via z


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

banzi said:


> Why not?
> 
> Get yourself down to where you want to be then eat maintenance cals.
> 
> How hard can it be?


Do you work for herba-****e??


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

Haha Banzai talking bubbles again?

Who'd of thought it. :laugh:


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> I shed around 35lb in 11 or 12 weeks last year.
> 
> Half the time.
> 
> So, yes, there are quick fixes.


Before and after pics or no 35lbs sustained miracle weight loss


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> View attachment 153043


No mate, one from today


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

Cycle schedule would help too..


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## night06 (May 1, 2014)

banzi said:


> Drop to 1000 cals a day and just eat chicken , broccoli, 4 whole eggs and 2 or 3 teaspoons of peanut butter.
> 
> Thank me in 5 weeks when you are at 8%.


Insane.. it will work for a short period of time thats for sure. But dont like the idea to crash the metabolism completly..


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Thats hilarious, you search google for his image and it brings up Jessica Rabbit!!!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> View attachment 153045


Look good


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

night06 said:


> Insane.. it will work for a short period of time thats for sure.* But dont like the idea to crash the metabolism completly.*.


Doesnt happen.


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## night06 (May 1, 2014)

banzi said:


> Doesnt happen.


Hell ye u will crash your metabolism do this for several weeks and try eat same amount of calories u ate before, u will get fat as **** again.


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

banzi said:


> Doesnt happen.


Metabolic and thermogenic adaptations happen.


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> calories are set to high as you said gaining strength at a rapid rate my lifts drop on a cut if im not on aas


Naa, I very much doubt they are too high at 1800kcal, the only reason my strength is increasing is because I've had such a long time off from training. If I was loosing strength to where I was a few weeks ago I'd be struggling to lift my arm... 

I really wasn't talking about the physical aspect of dieting (lowering bf) more the mental aspect to it, was having a particularly low day today, one of those mornings where you look in the mirror and think to yourself 'how long is this gonna take'

Was been a proper little bitch about it to be honest then this afternoon my lass showed me a photo from a few months ago... Yeh, scale might not be showing a huge drop but I've lost some serious flubber!


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

banzi said:


> View attachment 153043


You posted this pic in a thread saying this was before and after cutting out protein shakes?!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

bartonz20let said:


> Naa, I very much doubt they are too high at 1800kcal, the only reason my strength is increasing is because I've had such a long time off from training. If I was loosing strength to where I was a few weeks ago I'd be struggling to lift my arm...
> 
> I really wasn't talking about the physical aspect of dieting (lowering bf) more the mental aspect to it, was having a particularly low day today, one of those mornings where you look in the mirror and think to yourself 'how long is this gonna take'
> 
> Was been a proper little bitch about it to be honest then this afternoon my lass showed me a photo from a few months ago... Yeh, scale might not be showing a huge drop but I've lost some serious flubber!


Saw your number plate today mate BA12TON.


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

saxondale said:


> Saw your number plate today mate BA12TON.


I wish I could afford that


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> Drop to 1000 cals a day and just eat chicken , broccoli, 4 whole eggs and 2 or 3 teaspoons of peanut butter.
> 
> Thank me in 5 weeks when you are at 8%.


Are you sh.itting me.

Were you having a luagh or is this actually what you would advocate? I would not be able to move on 1000 calories, let alone go train and work! I'd probably not have enough energy to chew 1000 calories :lol:


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

RXQueenie said:


> You posted this pic in a thread saying this was before and after cutting out protein shakes?!


You're point being?

Its a 35lb weight loss in 11 or 12 weeks

The first pic I had shakes the second pic I dont.

Its not just down to not having shakes alone.

I dont have shakes at all now, I posted a pic from today.


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

banzi said:


> You're point being?
> 
> Its a 35lb weight loss in 11 or 12 weeks
> 
> ...


My point being that when you last posted that picture you said that the only thing you did was cut out all shakes and replace them with solid food. Now you're saying you did that aswell as running your 1000kcal plan? If so the last time you posted it you incorrectly stated what you did to achieve the transformation - as you were saying just take out shakes and replace with whole foods and this was the result.

Also... if that what was you achieved in 12 weeks all you did was put yourself through the mill with a severe and unecessary diet that you outlined before. The outcome ie your stage condition, was nothing special - except you suffered more than others on a greater restriction. So well done you're hardcore, but silly.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Getty have rung - want their picture back


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

RXQueenie said:


> My point being that when you last posted that picture you said that the only thing you did was cut out all shakes and replace them with solid food. Now you're saying you did that aswell as running your 1000kcal plan? If so the last time you posted it you incorrectly stated what you did to achieve the transformation - as you were saying just take out shakes and replace with whole foods and this was the result.
> 
> Also... if that what was you achieved in 12 weeks all you did was put yourself through the mill with a severe and unecessary diet that you outlined before. The outcome ie your stage condition, was nothing special - except you suffered more than others on a greater restriction. So well done you're hardcore, but silly.


I didn't do 1000 cals over the 12 weeks for that transformation.

You keep linking everything together.

I didnt drink shakes in the second pic, I dont drink shakes now.

I shed 35lbs in 12 weeks , it was a response to someone claiming they lost 40 in 8 months.

I have backed up my opinions and plans with pics.

I can shed weight in 5 weeks or I can shed it in 12, it doesnt matter to me either way.

Peopel have been asking for ways to shed weight fast, thats why I posted the diet I posted.

If you are concerned with metabolic shutdown then heres something original for you

Eat as much chicken and broccoli as you like, dont even think about cals.

Go for it.

I guarantee after a week your body wont even want the large amounts of food you think you will be able to eat.

Im out this thread now.

I will carry on doing my own thing and looking in top shape year round.


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

banzi said:


> I didn't do 1000 cals over the 12 weeks for that transformation.
> 
> You keep linking everything together.
> 
> ...


Who asked to cut weight fast? OP didn't. u just volunteer the info willy nilly.

I don't like chicken and broccoli.... I prefer to enjoy my food and be in shape... so dont go trying to give ME advice lol.


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

Is this clown still at it? :lol:

Your opinions are exactly opinions. Science isn't based on opinions.

I honestly thought he was a troll to start!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

RXQueenie said:


> Who asked to cut weight fast? OP didn't. u just volunteer the info willy nilly.
> 
> I don't like chicken and broccoli.... *I prefer to enjoy my food and be in shape... so dont go trying to give ME advice lol.*


Lol, I dont eat chicken and broccoli year round, I eat a pretty normal diet, I eat pretty much what I like, I eat instinctively, if I eat a lot one day I cut back the day after.

I have just been on holiday and ate anything and everything.

I will now cut back on carbs for a few days and shed the water weight and bloat I have gained while away, then back on track.

Oh, and I offer advice, I dont give it.


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## Marcus2014 (Mar 24, 2014)

Silvaback said:


> Is this clown still at it? :lol:
> 
> Your opinions are exactly opinions. Science isn't based on opinions.
> 
> I honestly thought he was a troll to start!


Bro science is  and there's much bro science from him


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Silvaback said:


> Is this clown still at it? :lol:
> 
> Your opinions are exactly opinions. Science isn't based on opinions.
> 
> I honestly thought he was a troll to start!


This "clown" is in top shape year round and looks better at 49 than 95% of 25 year old gym rats.

God, what am I doing wrong?


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

banzi said:


> This "clown" is in top shape year round and looks better at 49 than 95% 25 year old gym rats.
> 
> God, what am I doing wrong?


Being a cok.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Silvaback said:


> Being a cok.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Lol, I dont eat chicken and broccoli year round, I eat a pretty normal diet, I eat pretty much what I like, I eat instinctively, if I eat a lot one day I cut back the day after.
> 
> I have just been on holiday and ate anything and everything.
> 
> ...


Hang on, your saying your bloated in the today picture?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> Hang on, your saying your bloated in the today picture?


Yes, Im holding water after the holidays, Im on low carbs for a few days from tomorrow to drop the water.

Do you want another pic on Thursday or something?


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

banzi said:


> Lol, I dont eat chicken and broccoli year round, I eat a pretty normal diet, I eat pretty much what I like, I eat instinctively, if I eat a lot one day I cut back the day after.
> 
> I have just been on holiday and ate anything and everything.
> 
> ...


I ate instinctively for the last 8 months, unfortunately my instincts told me to eat pizza...

Respect for being in the shape your in but I don't think the advice your offering up is suitable for many people on here for multiple reasons.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Yes, Im holding water after the holidays, Im on low carbs for a few days from tomorrow to drop the water.
> 
> Do you want another pic on Thursday or something?


That would be good, do you want me to remind you?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> That would be good, do you want me to remind you?


Lol, do you want me to hire a film crew to accompany through my week and send you the footage?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Lol, do you want me to hire a film crew to accompany through my week and send you the footage?


Bit overkill.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

bartonz20let said:


> I ate instinctively for the last 8 months, unfortunately my instincts told me to eat pizza...
> 
> Respect for being in the shape your in but I don't think the advice your offering up is suitable for many people on here for multiple reasons.


Its only suitable for people with a high level of self motivation and will power.

Anyone else , forget it.

Oh, and to the people who have PMd me for advice, stick with it and reap the rewards.

You may be able to come back here in 6 weeks and show the doubters what you have achieved.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> Bit overkill.


Do you want the Thursday shot am or pm.

I tend to look better first thing in the morning


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

bartonz20let said:


> I ate instinctively for the last 8 months, unfortunately my instincts told me to eat pizza...
> 
> Respect for being in the shape your in but I don't think the advice your offering up is suitable for many people on here for multiple reasons.


I bet you wasn't running loads of gear whilst eating instinctively though was you


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

Silvaback said:


> I bet you wasn't running loads of gear whilst eating instinctively though was you


Erm, no mostly I was sat eating pizza


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Silvaback said:


> I bet you wasn't running loads of gear whilst eating instinctively though was you


Check your PMs.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Do you want the Thursday shot am or pm.
> 
> I tend to look better first thing in the morning


You choose, make sure you're wearing the same braclet though, wouldnt want anyone thinking you were posting any old picture. Look foward to it, you're an insperation mate.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

saxondale said:


> You choose, make sure you're wearing the same braclet though, wouldnt want anyone thinking you were posting any old picture. Look foward to it, you're an insperation mate.


No worries.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> This "clown" is in top shape year round and looks better at 49 than 95% of 25 year old gym rats.
> 
> God, what am I doing wrong?


Ignore my post. Sound like a Bitch. Stage pick looks great mate.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

PHMG said:


> not trying to sound bitchy mate. but what do you class as "top shape".
> 
> because let's face it, to norms, yes it's top shape but by bodybuilding standards....it isn't I'm afraid.
> 
> Again not taking anything away from you. Just some perspective.


I always keep my abs and intercostals and stay vascular, I dont like using a BF% because its hard to judge but if I was pushed I would say I dont go over 9% nowadays.

I can post pics anytime of year.

Bear in mind Im almost 49, Im not some hyper active whipper snapper. 

Oh, and I try to avoid the word "bodybuilder" at all costs, I never tell anyone Im a bodybuilder, it has so many negative connotations.


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

You're still a cok though, intercostals or not


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

banzi said:


> I always keep my abs and intercostals and stay vascular, I dont like using a BF% because its hard to judge but if I was pushed I would say I dont go over 9% nowadays.
> 
> I can post pics anytime of year.
> 
> ...


yeah changed my post mate cos I realised I sounded like a little Bitch. who the fuc.k am I to judge you.


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## Gacheru (May 25, 2014)

I dont get why banzi gets so much hate. Sure the psmf is extreme but there are def sick results out there. Check lylemcdonald thread if u wanna see it.


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## Shaftie (Apr 5, 2014)

Banzi style dieting is the only way I lose weight, mainly because I find it easier to stick to than a slow slog, believe it or not. Dropping 3 pounds per week keeps me motivated. It's like going cold turkey or tee total, only with food.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

I will be dieting long and slow to keep hold of the muscle and strength I worked so hard for. To me if I lose strength fast and weight I will be losing mass. And my sanity


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

RowRow said:


> I will be dieting long and slow to keep hold of the muscle and strength I worked so hard for. To me if I lose strength fast and weight I will be losing mass. And my sanity


if you are using gear and protein is high mate, you won't lose any muscle to be honest.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

PHMG said:


> if you are using gear and protein is high mate, you won't lose any muscle to be honest.


I will be doing both and will have a coach to guide me aswell. It's just a major worry as I have never done a proper cut before so I don't want to strip away and turn out to be a 12stone skinny guy haha


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

RowRow said:


> I will be doing both and will have a coach to guide me aswell. It's just a major worry as I have never done a proper cut before so I don't want to strip away and turn out to be a 12stone skinny guy haha


Like i said mate, if you hold 12 stone lean....then thats the case. Gear, high protein but low calories overall and its almost impossible to lose muscle providing you are training hard.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

banzi said:


> Its only suitable for people with a high level of self motivation and will power.
> 
> Anyone else , forget it.
> 
> ...


You forgot to mention its only suitable for those who don't mind losing a ton of muscle as well, even if you're on a shed load of gear.

Yes it'll get you lean quickly (depending how fat you were to start with obviously) but unless you have a lot of muscle before hand you're going to end up a stringy piece of sh*t.

So effective in terms of weight loss - sure. Optimum for maintaining muscle mass - f*ck no. And who the hell wants to eat just three different foods for weeks on end. There are much more efficient and fun ways to diet that'll get you lean without losing all your muscle and turning you into the world's most boring chunt.

But it's your life.


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

PSMF works well but best idea is to get 1.5 grams Protein per lb of Body weight.

IMO one of those meals should be salmon or you can use a fish oil.

Plenty of green veggies.

In two weeks a ton of fat can be cut and no muscle lost I have done it many times.

You have to be careful regarding the Rebound.

It is not a case of a crashed metabolism but rather you will have very strong Food cravings and gorging becomes much more tempting than switching to a proper maintance diet.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

defdaz said:


> You forgot to mention its only suitable for those who don't mind losing a ton of muscle as well, even if you're on a shed load of gear.
> 
> Yes it'll get you lean quickly (depending how fat you were to start with obviously) but unless you have a lot of muscle before hand you're going to end up a stringy piece of sh*t.
> 
> ...


You wont lose a "ton of muscle", you only need to do this extream diet for 6 weeks, you will get flat and depleted but you soon fill out when you put the carbs back in.

Real muscle aquirred over years suddenly doesnt disappear over a few weeks, that myth is perpetrated by permabulkers who finally diet down and didnt have anywhere near as much muscle as they thought.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ConP said:


> PSMF works well but best idea is to get 1.5 grams Protein per lb of Body weight.
> 
> IMO one of those meals should be salmon or you can use a fish oil.
> 
> ...


And thats about having the willpower to ignore those cravings, in my experience people whio can stick to very low cal diets do have the willpower to ignore the cravings afterwards.

I wouldnt recommend this approach close to competing, maybe 10 weeks out you can go low cal for 6 weeks to get totally shredded then allow yourself to fill back out over the next 4 weeks eating just under maintainance cals up to the show.


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

banzi said:


> Drop to 1000 cals a day and just eat chicken , broccoli, 4 whole eggs and 2 or 3 teaspoons of peanut butter.
> 
> Thank me in 5 weeks when you are at 8%.


is this guy a troll?

giving some terrible advice, better of not giving none then this BS


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big ape said:


> is this guy a troll?
> 
> giving some terrible advice, better of not giving none then this BS


It works for me, its what I do to shed fat.


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## Gacheru (May 25, 2014)

Would u also recommend it to naturals banzi?


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

banzi said:


> It works for me, its what I do to shed fat.


u got pics ?


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Gacheru said:


> Would u also recommend it to naturals banzi?


mate this is no way to diet ...

u wanna diet on as much food as possible while maintaining muscle mass and slowing decreasing Bodyfat


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Im 220 at the moment at around 9%

I competed at around 200lbs last year.

I will be posting a pic on Thursday for Saxondale, we have a little arrangement.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big ape said:


> mate this is no way to diet ...
> 
> u wanna diet on as much food as possible while maintaining muscle mass and slowing decreasing Bodyfat


I would say you want to get the fat of in the quickest possible time.

Why spend 16 weeks dieting when you can get the same results in 6


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

banzi said:


> I would say you want to get the fat of in the quickest possible time.
> 
> Why spend 16 weeks dieting when you can get the same results in 6


6 weeks crash diet V 16 weeks slow steady maintable unlikely to rebound diet?

i know what im picking


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

Big ape said:


> 6 weeks crash diet V 16 weeks slow steady maintable unlikely to rebound diet?
> 
> i know what im picking


god of all knowledge has spoken, you wont win...


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Boshlop said:


> god of all knowledge has spoken, you wont win...


Its not about winning its about options.

Im saying what I do in order to get in shape, if it helps other people its fine.


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

banzi said:


> Its not about winning its about options.
> 
> Im saying what I do in order to get in shape, if it helps other people its fine.


i have been there and done the crash diets its horrible ... bad bad mood swings/ after diet is done eating and not knowing when to stop/ putting on more fat then what i had to start with / depressed


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big ape said:


> i have been there and done the crash diets its horrible ... bad bad mood swings/ after diet is done eating and not knowing when to stop/ putting on more fat then what i had to start with / depressed


Well cant we agree to differ?

It works for me, Im not a big eater anyway, I dont get cravings for food the vast majority of the time and I eat pretty normally for most of the year and stay in good condition year round.

I just eat instinctively really, I know if I eat too much of a certain food I will get fat, TBH I think everyone does they just pretend they dont


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

banzi said:


> Well cant we agree to differ?
> 
> It works for me, Im not a big eater anyway, I dont get cravings for food the vast majority of the time and I eat pretty normally for most of the year and stay in good condition year round.
> 
> I just eat instinctively really, I know if I eat too much of a certain food I will get fat, TBH I think everyone does they just pretend they dont


Lol each to their own i just know what i would rather do ...


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big ape said:


> Lol each to their own i just know what i would rather do ...


No worries mate.

There are hundreds of ways of losing weight but they all consist of the same thing, reducing calories.

I used to be able to lose weight by swtiching to water rather than milk in shakes.


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

If cals go that low, then yeah you'll defo get lean BUT you'll look and feel like death, lose muscle and rebound like mad........ I know this as have done it more than once


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Awesome thread, more drama than tv!

In general I agree with the consensus that slow and steady is the best way to cut for most people - in most cases a slow cut regardless of macros has less negative impact on mood, doesn't cause a person to feel excessively hungry, retains muscle mass better and particularly at sub ten percent body fat seems to improve rate of progression in the gym. For most people too a crash diet also leads to a much greater rebound where instinctive appetite has to be fought against and real willpower is required to keep away from binging - after a slow cut this often isn't an issue at all.

However for a minority group of people short intense bursts of cutting work very well and they are able to deal with most of the negatives that others not so suited to that mode of dieting experience.

The important thing to recognise is that not everyone responds optimally to the same thing - if we all did then debates over how to cut wold have all ended decades ago, and cookie cutter diets would be the dogs bollocks.

In these kinds of discussion everyone has to accept it is not at all valid to assume or suggest everyone will respond best the same way or the way that you respond best - you can generalise some points of cutting of course, but best overall strategy is not going to be the same for each person - or even for the same person ten years apart.


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## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

Beyond bored of cutting.

At my worst I was 23 stone and now i'm down to 14. I've cut down to this after about two years worth of dieting and working out. My bodyfat is barely moving now and that's at a large calorie deficit ( TDEE of 2700 eating at around 1800 most days with a higher cal day at the weekend around 2500). I'm lifting weights with a mix of HIIT and LIIS. I'm eating paleo style with minimal carbs ( only from fruit & veg) and yet my body still isn't budging in bodyfat? Why the hell am I not shredded yet? It should still be falling off as im around 15-18%.

Its like I need a pro to come train me, jack the job in and train like an athlete to lose this. Such a joke man im getting depressed for the work im putting in already.

I must have an awful metabolism because even as a kid when I ate the same as my friends I would be the chubbiest.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dtlv said:


> Awesome thread, more drama than tv!
> 
> In general I agree with the consensus that slow and steady is the best way to cut for most people - in most cases a slow cut regardless of macros has less negative impact on mood, doesn't cause a person to feel excessively hungry, retains muscle mass better and particularly at sub ten percent body fat seems to improve rate of progression in the gym. For most people too a crash diet also leads to a much greater rebound where instinctive appetite has to be fought against and real willpower is required to keep away from binging - after a slow cut this often isn't an issue at all.
> 
> ...


Dont you just hate it when the voice of reason chips in and spoils everything?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

banzi said:


> Im 220 at the moment at around 9%
> 
> I competed at around 200lbs last year.
> 
> I will be posting a pic on Thursday for Saxondale, we have a little arrangement.


I know I said Thursday but just got in from work

Here you go


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

I hate cutting, as soon as I lose a rep on the bench I think "sh1t, I'm losing muscle" and start planning my next bulk.


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

I like carb refeed days, its nice to see you're muscle blow back up for a day or two on a cut. It helps get id of the "I'm getting small" voices in your head.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

bigjohnc said:


> I hate cutting, as soon as I lose a rep on the bench I think "sh1t, I'm losing muscle" and start planning my next bulk.


Why dont you think of it as "****, now Im burning fat"

mindset, thats all.


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

That's what I keep telling myself mate and it's true. We all drop a little strength when cutting, it's just hard to accept wen you are used to the weight going up not down.

It's a necessary part of the process. I just find it a bit of a mind fcuk.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

bigjohnc said:


> That's what I keep telling myself mate and it's true. We all drop a little strength when cutting, it's just hard to accept wen you are used to the weight going up not down.
> 
> It's a necessary part of the process. I just find it a bit of a mind fcuk.


I always vary my weights, i couldnt for the life of me remember what weights i used last week, i get warmed up and then just go with how I feel on a given day, plus I use power bands quite a bit so I have no idea about weights on dumbells as I hardly ever use them.


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

I've got a powerlifting background and still like to stick with that for the basics (squats, bench and deads) at least a few sets at the start of the workout so I know what reps I should be hitting with what percentages so its very obvious if my wights are going down. It's good when you lose weight and can do a lot more bodyweight reps though


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> I know I said Thursday but just got in from work
> 
> Here you go
> 
> View attachment 153195


Put some weight on their fella :tongue:


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

banzi said:


> You wont lose a "ton of muscle", you only need to do this extream diet for 6 weeks, you will get flat and depleted but you soon fill out when you put the carbs back in.
> 
> Real muscle aquirred over years suddenly doesnt disappear over a few weeks, that myth is perpetrated by permabulkers who finally diet down and didnt have anywhere near as much muscle as they thought.


Myth. lol. Ever heard of nitrogen balance and how it's affected by CALORIE INTAKE as well as protein (and myriad other factors great and small, obviously)?

Nice little graph here:










But still, I applaud you on trying to convince yourself why your sh1t method of dieting is ok. Excuse yourself away mate. We all do it, I understand. Heck I do it all the time and I'm honest enough with myself to admit it to myself and accept these weaknesses - but to try and use those same excuses and put them to other people to copy my laziness (as you've admitted) is a complete no - no. Do as I say, not as I do.

Facts are banzi that calorie restriction and tons of cardio and training causes you to be nitrogen negative even when on gear (unless you're a complete genetic freak or coming from a long lay off). The greater the imbalance the greater the losses, even though you can ameliorate the losses somewhat by having a high protein intake (as much as your miniscule calories allow you to) - this has been shown plenty by lots of research by scientific and anecdotal.

Take two guys who have the same amount of fat and lean body mass and put one through a crash diet and other through a longer one and the guy who had the patience to do the longer diet will always come in bigger and better. Just fact I'm afraid mate.

We've all seen it a million times, there are even people on here who've crash dieted like you do and ended up in a right state, barely looking like they train.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

dtlv said:


> Awesome thread, more drama than tv!
> 
> In general I agree with the consensus that slow and steady is the best way to cut for most people - in most cases a slow cut regardless of macros has less negative impact on mood, doesn't cause a person to feel excessively hungry, retains muscle mass better and particularly at sub ten percent body fat seems to improve rate of progression in the gym. For most people too a crash diet also leads to a much greater rebound where instinctive appetite has to be fought against and real willpower is required to keep away from binging - after a slow cut this often isn't an issue at all.
> 
> ...


Killjoy! 

Oh ok, all diets (argh I hate using that term incorrectly) have a certain level of effectiveness and their own pros and cons, you're right.  Banzi, glad your diet works for you. Peace and joy to all mankind.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

defdaz said:


> We've all seen it a million times, there are even people on here who've crash dieted like you do and ended up in a right state, barely looking like they train.


Happened to me, apparently I didn't have any muscle to start with.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Happened to me, apparently I didn't have any muscle to start with.


Going by your avi I'd say you could do with some size on ya arms mate


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

defdaz said:


> Killjoy!
> 
> Oh ok, all diets (argh I hate using that term incorrectly) have a certain level of effectiveness and their own pros and cons, you're right.  Banzi, glad your diet works for you. Peace and joy to all mankind.


Hey buddy 

I'm not a killjoy, I'm an anti-troll - I troll but with messages of peace and love rather than hate :innocent: 



defdaz said:


> Myth. lol. Ever heard of nitrogen balance and how it's affected by CALORIE INTAKE as well as protein (and myriad other factors great and small, obviously)?
> 
> Nice little graph here:
> 
> ...


Nice and I agree that I don't think you can protect muscle mass on a highly energy restricted crash diet - not without drugs anyway. The recent study paper by Eric Helms, Alan Aragon et al looking at what clinical info there is on natural pre contest dieting is a pretty damn good review of what studies say on this topic (how to retain muscle best in a calorie deficit) combined with practical experience (Aragon as a top nutritionist for athletes, Helms as a competitive natural bodybuilder and coach) and their analysis of data from the studies suggest that any form of cutting where the calorie deficit leads to greater loss of weight than 0.5%-1% of bodyweight per week is not going to be protective to muscle and the greater the deficit the higher the loss of muscle.

In practical terms this means for a 200lb individual looking to cut, a bodyweight loss of more than somewhere between 1lb and 2lbs per week will result in increasing loss of muscle - and going beyond that is pretty much guaranteed to result in sub optimal muscle retention.

http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/20


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

I did the chicken and broccoli only diet and I lasted a week before I nearly killed everyone around me. I'm always a happy person and always in a good mood, but I can honestly say that diet did something to me mentally which took me to a dark place. I really wanted to stick with it, but after losing no weight after the week and someone else telling me I was being mad, I ditched the diet. I've never been so happy to have eggs in the morning again! Lol


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

Funny how your mind set can change in less than a week, started this thread and whilst I had lost weight I couldn't see anything changing but this week has been quite quick on the visuals, I've got a fat 6 pac now, basically the layer of fat has shaped itself around my abs, been able to see more and more of my rib cage each day and the fat that's left feels softer (I believe this is cappileries returning so the fat can be mobilised? Possibly bro science).

Just goes to show if your consistent and can win the mental battle, you get the results.

Only another 10lb or so to loose


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MFM said:


> I did the chicken and broccoli only diet and I lasted a week before I nearly killed everyone around me. I'm always a happy person and always in a good mood, but I can honestly say that diet did something to me mentally which took me to a dark place. I really wanted to stick with it, but after losing no weight after the week and someone else telling me I was being mad, I ditched the diet. I've never been so happy to have eggs in the morning again! Lol


Did I forget to mention you could have eggs as an alternative for breakfast?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

bartonz20let said:


> Funny how your mind set can change in less than a week, started this thread and whilst I had lost weight I couldn't see anything changing but this week has been quite quick on the visuals, I've got a fat 6 pac now, basically the layer of fat has shaped itself around my abs, been able to see more and more of my rib cage each day and the fat that's left feels softer (I believe this is cappileries returning so the fat can be mobilised? Possibly bro science).
> 
> Just goes to show if your consistent and can win the mental battle, you get the results.
> 
> Only another 10lb or so to loose


'Fat 6 pack' love it, gonna steal that one.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

FelonE said:


> Going by your avi I'd say you could do with some size on ya arms mate


Every days chest day brah


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Every days chest day brah


Mirin


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

banzi said:


> Did I forget to mention you could have eggs as an alternative for breakfast?


Mate, I will rather poke my eardrums out with a rusty fork than go on this diet, or any variation of it ever again.


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## Silvaback (Jul 31, 2013)

MFM said:


> Mate, I will rather poke my eardrums out with a rusty fork than go on this diet, or any variation of it ever again.


Good because it's fcuking idiotic!


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

saxondale said:


> 'Fat 6 pack' love it, gonna steal that one.


Looks like a bonafied 6er from a distance


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Every days chest day brah


You got no legs


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

FelonE said:


> You got no legs


Dont want them to get too big.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Dont want them to get too big.


That's what I say too lol


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