# T3 and the heart



## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Alot of people state t3 DIRECTLY affects the heart and it is unhealthy. Does anybody know anything with more data on this

and how bad for the heart is say a 50mcg daily dose of t3 for 6months for example?


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## BULK (Sep 13, 2015)

Bump on this , also someone posted elsewhere that t3 burns muscle not fat ! Any truth in this ?


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

I have hyperthyroidism and yes it does affect the heart, both directly and indirectly.

Having elevated T3 levels for a long period of time means your heart is beating faster and working harder at both rest and under stress (exercise for example). This has long term repercussions. See here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthyroidism or here - http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/116/15/1725

An extract;

Thyroid hormone is an important regulator of cardiac gene expression and, many of the cardiac manifestations of thyroid dysfunction are associated with alterations in T3-mediated gene expression.39-42 Hyperthyroidism in both humans and experimental animals leads to cardiac hypertrophy.43-45 This cardiac growth is primarily the result of increased work imposed on the heart through increases in hemodynamic load.43

The growth, similar to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy can lead to further complications in later life. My heart is at the upper limit of enlargement and when my thyroid was at it's worst, my cardiologist did have some concerns. Primary because HCM runs in my family on my fathers side (Dad has it). I don't have signs of this (scarring of the heart muscle) so the conclusion was that this was as a result of my over active thyroid.

This is one of the reasons I firmly believe if people do intend to use thyroid hormone, that they start low and slow.


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

This is the main reason I haven't used it I was going to use it pre contest but doesn't seam to be worth the risk. And T3 is catabolic as well so if you use it to much you can definitely lose muscle.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

T3 is indiscriminate and will chew fat or muscle , that said its down to dosage and whether you can tolerate the other 'fat burners' - which turn some people into an anxiety induced mess.

imo non of the drugs that will actually make you lose weight are good for you but T3 is one of the least harmful if used correctly and actually has other benefits if using AAS as well.


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## BULK (Sep 13, 2015)

aqualung said:


> T3 is indiscriminate and will chew fat or muscle , that said its down to dosage and whether you can tolerate the other 'fat burners' - which turn some people into an anxiety induced mess.
> 
> imo non of the drugs that will actually make you lose weight are good for you but T3 is one of the least harmful if used correctly and actually has other benefits if using AAS as well.


 Cheers, I will be using 25-50 mcg ed to start with , running 250test e 400tren e and Winnie too. Will the tren help preserve my mass from the t3 ?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

@Bensif pretty much covered the OP question, most drugs have potential side effects and T3 is no exception. If you're using PEDs then chances are you know they may affect your heart - go down the same route if you wish to try T3 as you would have with AAS, try it out and if you're getting stuff like palpitations and significantly elevated heart rate then discontinue your use. Some of us will be fine with it, others won't. 50mcg is a sensible dose and I always advise starting with 25mcg and ramping up over a week or two, 75mcg is a very effective dose but at that point the risk of sides increases dramatically. I start getting palpitations and stuff if I run 75mcg for too long and with T3, generally the longer you run a higher dose the more side effects will start to creep in, but upon discontinuing the dose it all went away. If you do start getting sides like this that continue after you stop using, then go see your GP.

As for @BULK's question re: burning of muscle, it can do. It's highly overstated I feel, but it can. T3 increases both protein turnover rate and protein breakdown. The balance is fairly even at lower doses (25mcg or below) but the higher the dose, the more the margin tends to widen unfavourably and the breakdown of proteins outweighs that of increased PTOR. So if you go using 50mcg without any AAS for example, then you may experience muscle loss. However, using an anabolic agent prevents the breakdown of proteins (muscle tissue in practicality) and under the right circumstances, not only can muscle breakdown be prevented, but T3 can even be anabolic as with the offset of breakdown whilst increased synthesis is still present would mean a favourable balance. This of course would require a caloric surplus, but even at a deficit, with the right amount of anabolics, the breakdown can be offset and muscle can be retained. You don't need a huge amount of AAS - if we're talking testosterone, a rough ballpark formula that works IME is mcg of T3 x 5 = mg of testosterone to ensure the counteraction of the catabolic effect of T3. So, for example, taking 50mcg of T3, 250mg of test should be enough, though most people would use 500mg upwards on a cycle and/or other bits. So in short, just run your usual cycle and you should be protected.

If you're in a deficit, you WILL look flatter on T3 as a more functional thyroid output generally equals more glucose being released from storage. I believe this is where a lot of people get the idea that T3 will indiscriminately burn muscle - they see themselves get a bit flat looking and automatically assume they're losing muscle. It's also dose dependent of course, 50mcg shouldn't see a huge deal of flatness happening, enough to notice but again it's only temporary flatness due to lack of glycogen within the muscle. This is a good thing as the body's glycogen stores need to be depleted in order for fat stores to be used as an energy source.


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## BULK (Sep 13, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> @Bensif pretty much covered the OP question, most drugs have potential side effects and T3 is no exception. If you're using PEDs then chances are you know they may affect your heart - go down the same route if you wish to try T3 as you would have with AAS, try it out and if you're getting stuff like palpitations and significantly elevated heart rate then discontinue your use. Some of us will be fine with it, others won't. 50mcg is a sensible dose and I always advise starting with 25mcg and ramping up over a week or two, 75mcg is a very effective dose but at that point the risk of sides increases dramatically. I start getting palpitations and stuff if I run 75mcg for too long and with T3, generally the longer you run a higher dose the more side effects will start to creep in, but upon discontinuing the dose it all went away. If you do start getting sides like this that continue after you stop using, then go see your GP.
> 
> As for @BULK's question re: burning of muscle, it can do. It's highly overstated I feel, but it can. T3 increases both protein turnover rate and protein breakdown. The balance is fairly even at lower doses (25mcg or below) but the higher the dose, the more the margin tends to widen unfavourably and the breakdown of proteins outweighs that of increased PTOR. So if you go using 50mcg without any AAS for example, then you may experience muscle loss. However, using an anabolic agent prevents the breakdown of proteins (muscle tissue in practicality) and under the right circumstances, not only can muscle breakdown be prevented, but T3 can even be anabolic as with the offset of breakdown whilst increased synthesis is still present would mean a favourable balance. This of course would require a caloric surplus, but even at a deficit, with the right amount of anabolics, the breakdown can be offset and muscle can be retained. You don't need a huge amount of AAS - if we're talking testosterone, a rough ballpark formula that works IME is mcg of T3 x 5 = mg of testosterone to ensure the counteraction of the catabolic effect of T3. So, for example, taking 50mcg of T3, 250mg of test should be enough, though most people would use 500mg upwards on a cycle and/or other bits. So in short, just run your usual cycle and you should be protected.
> 
> If you're in a deficit, you WILL look flatter on T3 as a more functional thyroid output generally equals more glucose being released from storage. I believe this is where a lot of people get the idea that T3 will indiscriminately burn muscle - they see themselves get a bit flat looking and automatically assume they're losing muscle. It's also dose dependent of course, 50mcg shouldn't see a huge deal of flatness happening, enough to notice but again it's only temporary flatness due to lack of glycogen within the muscle. This is a good thing as the body's glycogen stores need to be depleted in order for fat stores to be used as an energy source.


 Awesome response. Cheers


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

BULK said:


> Awesome response. Cheers


 I wrote an FAQ on T3 last year if there's anything else you'd like to know 

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/247418-imnotaperverts-t3-faq/?do=embed


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