# Skiploading



## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

I thought there'd be a sticky or some kind of definitive 'go to' thread in this topic but there doesnt seem to be one which surprised me.

I'll keep my question short and sweet...how many carbs are you supposed to eat mon to fri before the saturday skipload? Ie what % of your macros should come from carbs during the week

I've dieted for 2 weeks without a cheat (first time for everything) been consuming roughly 300g protein 200-220g carbs and only 30-40g fat per day but despite the reasonable amount of carbs im feelin a little flat and depleted and think a simple carb splurge might be a tasty way of fillin me out and rebooting my metabolism.

Would skiploading be uncalled for given im consuming 200-220g carbs daily?


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## fletcher1 (Jun 14, 2012)

in for info on skiploading, im intrested in this but there dont seem to be a huge amount of info floating about on it


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

fletcher1 said:


> in for info on skiploading, im intrested in this but there dont seem to be a huge amount of info floating about on it


I typed in 'skiploading' into UK-M search engine mate and it only returned 19 threads,some of which were only loosely related to the topic and none seemed defonitive. Even google searches havent helped with specifics really,albeit i havent spent ages trawling


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## fletcher1 (Jun 14, 2012)

foodaddict said:


> I typed in 'skiploading' into UK-M search engine mate and it only returned 19 threads,some of which were only loosely related to the topic and none seemed defonitive. Even google searches havent helped with specifics really,albeit i havent spent ages trawling


i know would be nice to get some good info in the subject


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

I would imagine @Pscarb would be the goto guy on this 1


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Bump


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

Read up on the "anabolic diet" also read "ultimate diet 2.0" this will give you enough understanding that you can make it fit your diet.


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## focus_and_win (May 12, 2012)

ConP said:


> Read up on the "anabolic diet" also read "ultimate diet 2.0" this will give you enough understanding that you can make it fit your diet.


read up on anabolic diet a while back, do you think its good for gaining or more a cutting method?

i think its flexible more than anything for the weekend warriors ie keep the carbs to just 2 days meaning less fat gain

surely for good gains carbs would be needed in week circa workout?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

foodaddict said:


> I thought there'd be a sticky or some kind of definitive 'go to' thread in this topic but there doesnt seem to be one which surprised me.
> 
> I'll keep my question short and sweet...how many carbs are you supposed to eat mon to fri before the saturday skipload? Ie what % of your macros should come from carbs during the week
> 
> ...


there is no specific amount of carbs that are allowed or restricted to allow a skipload as the number is individual to the person.......i used skiploading for two and half years when i was coached by Skip himself.......

what you have to ask yourself is do you need a cheat?? you mention you have roughly been eating x amounts of macro's what do you mean by roughly??


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> there is no specific amount of carbs that are allowed or restricted to allow a skipload as the number is individual to the person.......i used skiploading for two and half years when i was coached by Skip himself.......
> 
> what you have to ask yourself is do you need a cheat?? you mention you have roughly been eating x amounts of macro's what do you mean by roughly??[/
> 
> ...


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> there is no specific amount of carbs that are allowed or restricted to allow a skipload as the number is individual to the person.......i used skiploading for two and half years when i was coached by Skip himself.......
> 
> what you have to ask yourself is do you need a cheat?? you mention you have roughly been eating x amounts of macro's what do you mean by roughly??


Hey Paul,

I've been reading everywhere but can't seem to find information regarding fat intake when skiploading. I know the key to skiploading is to eat foods rich in carbs and very low in fat. But when calculating macros, if a carb source has 1g-3g of fat per 100g, would you just disregard that and consider that as an acceptable skipload food?

Another example is skimmed milk. I've noticed a lot of people using sugary cereals to skipload. But skimmed milk has 1g of fat per 100ml but would this just be ignored as its such a small amount?

The reason I ask this is because initially it may seem like a small number, but when eating a huge amount of food, the numbers will eventually add up.

Cheers mate.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

no the fat number needs to be compared to the amount of carbs in the food, for example you might get a peice of cake that has 30g carbs and 10g of fat this is to high now if the cake was 100g of carbs and 10g of fat then this is more acceptable.

when i was doing it with skip i was allowed 1 no holds bar meal like pizza or burger and fries etc then the rest was high carb (simple carbs, processed carbs) foods with low fat amounts no zero fat...

the only reason for this is if you fill yourself up with high fat foods then you will be less hungry thus restricting the amount of carb foods you can eat.

i tended to stick with weight watchers cakes, crumpets, pancakes and syrup, malt loaf etc.....


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Contest said:


> Hey Paul,
> 
> I've been reading everywhere but can't seem to find information regarding fat intake when skiploading. I know the key to skiploading is to eat foods rich in carbs and very low in fat. But when calculating macros, if a carb source has 1g-3g of fat per 100g, would you just disregard that and consider that as an acceptable skipload food?
> 
> ...


I think you'll find that people are using whey protein with the cereals when skiploading, not skimmed milk.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

You can find everything you need to know to skipload with a few google searches.

I am starting to throw them back in,

1200g taken in on Sunday HI GI and 1 burger meal


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> You can find everything you need to know to skipload with a few google searches.
> 
> I am starting to throw them back in,
> 
> 1200g taken in on Sunday HI GI and 1 burger meal


Are you cutting?


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Dazarooni said:


> Are you cutting?


Yes and no..I train a two day split one day is focused fat loss and the other is a heavy multiple muscle group..

So I'm always cutting and always bulking


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> Yes and no..I train a two day split one day is focused fat loss and the other is a heavy multiple muscle group..
> 
> So I'm always cutting and always bulking


I see.

I'm coming off a cut - I'm "reverse dieting" at the moment. I'm increasing calories slowly and reducing cardio and am skiploading.

I am planning on eating just above maintenance on my workout days and below maintenance with cardio on my rest days with a skipload on Sundays.

My carbs on workout days will be around 200 grams. I weigh 160 lbs. Rest days 50-100 grams.

I hope this brings me the lean gains I'm looking for with minimal bodyfat!


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> no the fat number needs to be compared to the amount of carbs in the food, for example you might get a peice of cake that has 30g carbs and 10g of fat this is to high now if the cake was 100g of carbs and 10g of fat then this is more acceptable.
> 
> when i was doing it with skip i was allowed 1 no holds bar meal like pizza or burger and fries etc then the rest was high carb (simple carbs, processed carbs) foods with low fat amounts no zero fat...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info as always mate. Much appreciated 

Would you say these macros fit into the skipload protocol... 150/960/120 (the fat and protein content from here is pretty much all from Almond milk and Wholemeal bagels).

Also, in your opinion, does it make a difference whether simple or complex carbs are used? Either way glycogen will replenish but I know most people stick to high GI as its easier to consume more carbs this way. If however a person has quite a large appetite such as myself and can hit high numbers using complex carbs without feeling sick, do you see an issue with this mate?



Dazarooni said:


> I think you'll find that people are using whey protein with the cereals when skiploading, not skimmed milk.


I've been over at IntenseMuscle forums for days and have not read anyone doing this :confused1:

Many people have stated that they're skiploading using kids cereals and skimmed milk.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Contest said:


> Thanks for the info as always mate. Much appreciated
> 
> Would you say these macros fit into the skipload protocol... 150/960/120 (the fat and protein content from here is pretty much all from Almond milk and Wholemeal bagels).
> 
> Also, in your opinion, does it make a difference whether simple or complex carbs are used? Either way glycogen will replenish but I know most people stick to high GI as its easier to consume more carbs this way. If however a person has quite a large appetite such as myself and can hit high numbers using complex carbs without feeling sick, do you see an issue with this mate?


to be fair buddy i cannot give you a yes or no answer as you need to do it then see how your body reacts, seeing as your doing a skipload for a number of hours (as it should be done then built up over weeks) in my opinion using slower carbs is not ideal



Contest said:


> I've been over at IntenseMuscle forums for days and have not read anyone doing this :confused1:
> 
> Many people have stated that they're skiploading using kids cereals and skimmed milk.


on a skip load cereal with skimmed milk is fine, what @Dazarooni is speaking about is PWO cereal which is something skip does and then you pour your shake over the cereal like milk


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Contest said:


> Thanks for the info as always mate. Much appreciated
> 
> Would you say these macros fit into the skipload protocol... 150/960/120 (the fat and protein content from here is pretty much all from Almond milk and Wholemeal bagels).
> 
> ...


Well they're not doing it properly then as dairy should be avoided as it slows down digestion. I've been on intensemuscle a while and most use whey from what I've read.


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

From a question and answer session with Skip...

Q: What do you do for clients who are gluten intolerant or who have difficulty with dairy?

Dairy products are not included in contest prep or loads. Dairy is too unpredictable and many people have problems with digesting dairy on some level. It is just easier to leave it out, completely. I rarely run into someone with a gluten intolerance that actually gets in the way of a load so that hasn't been an issue, either.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=32172

I think that you can just try and see how you cope if you really wanted to use skimmed milk.

Personally, I'd just use the whey protein with the cereal.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dazarooni said:


> Well they're not doing it properly then as dairy should be avoided as it slows down digestion. I've been on intensemuscle a while and most use whey from what I've read.


well it all depends on the individual and the amount they use, you may of been on Intense muscle for a while i worked with Skip for just under 3yrs believe me it is not totally forbidden


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dazarooni said:


> From a question and answer session with Skip...
> 
> Q: What do you do for clients who are *gluten intolerant or who have difficulty with dairy*?
> 
> ...


his answer is correct to the question if the person has an intolerance to Gluten and dairy.......Skip does not prescribe to pints of milk but i was ok using skimmed milk on cereal on my load days


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> to be fair buddy i cannot give you a yes or no answer as you need to do it then see how your body reacts, seeing as your doing a skipload for a number of hours (as it should be done then built up over weeks) in my opinion using slower carbs is not ideal


Cheers mate. I shall be doing another skipload this Saturday using the macros mentioned earlier and will assess from there. I'm basically just eating oats with almond milk and bagels. Sounds boring but to me the MP oats is truly a luxury lol

I'm getting in the carbs pretty much every 2 hours. No protein shakes or meats through the day.



Pscarb said:


> on a skip load cereal with skimmed milk is fine, what @Dazarooni is speaking about is PWO cereal which is something skip does and then you pour your shake over the cereal like milk


That makes more sense


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarooni said:


> From a question and answer session with Skip...
> 
> Q: What do you do for clients who are gluten intolerant or who have difficulty with dairy?
> 
> ...


I'm using almond milk mate. Normal milk destroys my insides.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Contest said:


> I'm using almond milk mate. Normal milk destroys my insides.


well this changes things as lactose is negligible in Almond milk


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> well this changes things as lactose is negligible in Almond milk


Indeed, my only concern was that almond milk has 1g of fat per 100ml. If I drink 3l, that's 30g of fat. Oats have 8g of fat per 100g so 1000g of that takes me to 110g including the milk.

Thinking about it, why the hell do oats have so much fat per 100g compared to sources such as rice and wholemeal bread :confused1:


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> well it all depends on the individual and the amount they use, you may of been on Intense muscle for a while i worked with Skip for just under 3yrs believe me it is not totally forbidden


I know where you're coming from, he'd rather have folk load without but if they choose to load and get on fine with dairy then there should be no issue.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dazarooni said:


> I know where you're coming from, he'd rather have folk load without but if they choose to load and get on fine with dairy then there should be no issue.


exactly mate the same can be said for wheat (bread etc) on the forum he gives an overview of how he does things when you work with him it is in much finer detail...


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Contest said:


> Indeed, my only concern was that almond milk has 1g of fat per 100ml. If I drink 3l, that's 30g of fat. Oats have 8g of fat per 100g so 1000g of that takes me to 110g including the milk.
> 
> Thinking about it, why the hell do oats have so much fat per 100g compared to sources such as rice and wholemeal bread :confused1:


You're having oats for your skipload? Well what you're doing can't be considered skiploading if this is the food types you're taking in.


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> exactly mate the same can be said for wheat (bread etc) on the forum he gives an overview of how he does things when you work with him it is in much finer detail...


I found his longevity DVD really useful - he basically spoonfeeds people on how to apply the skiploading protocol to themselves.

I don't think I could last an entire cut without skiploading, it makes the diet bearable.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dazarooni said:


> You're having oats for your skipload? Well what you're doing can't be considered skiploading if this is the food types you're taking in.


this is true the pure essence to skip loading is simple processed foods, Oats would have to much fibre and fat (combined) for a true skipload.....a better alternative would be a weight watchers lemon drizzle individual cake 1 small cake 20g carbs/.7g fat 3 of those and you get the same amount of carbs in 100g of oats with more sugars and less fat


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> this is true the pure essence to skip loading is simple processed foods, Oats would have to much fibre and fat (combined) for a true skipload.....a better alternative would be a weight watchers lemon drizzle individual cake 1 small cake 20g carbs/.7g fat 3 of those and you get the same amount of carbs in 100g of oats with more sugars and less fat


Yes, high GI foods that spike insulin, oats are low GI and basically defeat the purpose of the skipload.

I'm quite a fan of the weigh****chers cakes and desserts - I love the carrot cake slices and cherry bakewell slices. 1 gram of fat per 18 grams of carbs, perfect for skiploading!


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> this is true the pure essence to skip loading is simple processed foods, Oats would have to much fibre and fat (combined) for a true skipload.....a better alternative would be a weight watchers lemon drizzle individual cake 1 small cake 20g carbs/.7g fat 3 of those and you get the same amount of carbs in 100g of oats with more sugars and less fat


PS - have you used Skiploading when trying to gain mass?

I'm coming out of a cut at the moment and want to continue skiploading. My calories on my workout days will be slightly above maintenance and below maintenance on rest days with cardio thrown in. Carbs on workout days will be around 180 - 200 grams and 100 grams on rest days. I weigh 160 lbs.

I'm hoping the insulin spike from the skipload will help me gain mass and keep the metabolism fired up with minimal fat gains. Any thoughts on my plan?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Dazarooni said:


> PS - have you used Skiploading when trying to gain mass?
> 
> I'm coming out of a cut at the moment and want to continue skiploading. My calories on my workout days will be slightly above maintenance and below maintenance on rest days with cardio thrown in. Carbs on workout days will be around 180 - 200 grams and 100 grams on rest days. I weigh 160 lbs.
> 
> I'm hoping the insulin spike from the skipload will help me gain mass and keep the metabolism fired up with minimal fat gains. Any thoughts on my plan?


i worked with Skip through 2 seasons of prepping for shows along with my most successful year bulking to date.

off season it is used in the same manner but the calories in the week are steadily raised imo it is not a great method if you do not raise your weekly calories on the non skipload day as well


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i worked with Skip through 2 seasons of prepping for shows along with my most successful year bulking to date.
> 
> off season it is used in the same manner but the calories in the week are steadily raised imo it is not a great method if you do not raise your weekly calories on the non skipload day as well


I appreciate your input.

So, do you think I should go a bit higher over maintenance on my workout days and higher on my rest days too?

I'd still like to keep my skipload on a Sunday quite sizeable, and as my carb intake through the week is lowish to moderate, I think I'd be a little depleted and ready to get glycogen levels stocked up again.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

your goal is to gain muscle being depleted through the week does not serve this purpose, in my opinion it would be better to increase the calories from carbs gradually from complex sources then use say a sunday to eat more simple processed carbs....

skiploading is a great method but needs to applied slightly differently in my opinion to a bulk over a cut


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> your goal is to gain muscle being depleted through the week does not serve this purpose, in my opinion it would be better to increase the calories from carbs gradually from complex sources then use say a sunday to eat more simple processed carbs....
> 
> skiploading is a great method but needs to applied slightly differently in my opinion to a bulk over a cut


 Thanks for your input. I suppose I should just make any necessary adjustments as I go along, like look in the mirror and see how things are progressing, if little or no progress, increase calories/carbs and load on the Sunday and see if that moves things along... Would you still advise a fairly large skipload at weekends? say 9-12 hours.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i would advise to start lower and then increase if needed, the issue with off season is that you should not be that depleted if at all


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> i would advise to start lower and then increase if needed, the issue with off season is that you should not be that depleted if at all


at the moment i'm trying a push pull legs mon tues n thurs with high clean calories carbs around the workout, then full body depletion crossfit style workouts with low carb days in the remainder of the week mixed in with cardio, these days are high fat and one carb meal at night. skipload sundays 10 hour window next time. only done one week with it but I felt depleted come the sunday,

in your experience do you think the above would actually be good for a period or am I chatting bollocks and should go back to getting coached lol


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## Dazarooni (Aug 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i would advise to start lower and then increase if needed, the issue with off season is that you should not be that depleted if at all


Thanks for your advice, I'll apply it and see what happens and make any necessary adjustments.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

marknorthumbria said:


> at the moment i'm trying a push pull legs mon tues n thurs with high clean calories carbs around the workout, then full body depletion crossfit style workouts with low carb days in the remainder of the week mixed in with cardio, these days are high fat and one carb meal at night. skipload sundays 10 hour window next time. only done one week with it but I felt depleted come the sunday,
> 
> in your experience do you think the above would actually be good for a period or am I chatting bollocks and should go back to getting coached lol


ha ha no mate sounds like a plan but you have to see what it gives, my point is that if the off season is to gain size and i do not mean a normal bad bulk but decent muscle then i see no reason to deplete the body, if you are lowering your carbs on non training days this is not depleting and there is a difference between depleted and just fukced from lack of calories in my opinion...

BUT

in saying all of that you need to see what this approach brings so that you can either put it down to a waste of your time or a good approach for you


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> at the moment i'm trying a push pull legs mon tues n thurs with high clean calories carbs around the workout, then full body depletion crossfit style workouts with low carb days in the remainder of the week mixed in with cardio, these days are high fat and one carb meal at night. skipload sundays 10 hour window next time. only done one week with it but I felt depleted come the sunday,
> 
> in your experience do you think the above would actually be good for a period or am I chatting bollocks and should go back to getting coached lol





Pscarb said:


> ha ha no mate sounds like a plan but you have to see what it gives, my point is that if the off season is to gain size and i do not mean a normal bad bulk but decent muscle then i see no reason to deplete the body, if you are lowering your carbs on non training days this is not depleting and there is a difference between depleted and just fukced from lack of calories in my opinion...
> 
> BUT
> 
> in saying all of that you need to see what this approach brings so that you can either put it down to a waste of your time or a good approach for you


I too am doing a similar thing. I should have probably mentioned this in the beginning that I want to use skiploading to gain size lol.

Sunday through to Friday I train everyday using PPPL (no weights on Thursday) and perform cardio twice a day. I keep protein high, fat low and carbs just about maintenance too get me through the day and workouts.

Macros are 470/290/110.

For me 290g, split at about a 30/70 ratio at breakfast and post-workout is about enough, but I do start feeling sluggish on Wednesday onwards.

Saturday is when I smash in a huge amount of carbs (900g+) to replenish glycogen and start feeling amazing again.

I don't know whether my glycogen is actually depleted from all that working out or whether its just fatigue as @Pscarb mentioned but I have seen great gains. Weighed in at 98.5kg the other night and still looking very lean and vascular. This is a massive jump for me as a few months ago I weighed in at 86kg.

I also strategically work out legs on the Friday and back and biceps on Saturday morning and then get in the huge influx of carbs. I believe this may be better due to me being even more insulin sensitive. I know I may be wrong and that your supposed to not workout on the skipload day, but this is whats worked for me 

Latest progress pic...


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

@Pscarb

Hey Paul, have been trying to get information about something but can't seem to find an answer. Was hoping you can help me out mate.

If Skiploading for 6-8 hours, once finished, do you simply go back to your normal diet?

For example, if I skipload for 8 hours and finish say about 9pm, would it be ok for me to snack on 100g-200g cashews through the rest of the night while watching TV, etc?

Cheers mate.

@marknorthumbria - If you have the answer to this, feel free to chime in matey


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Contest said:


> @Pscarb
> 
> Hey Paul, have been trying to get information about something but can't seem to find an answer. Was hoping you can help me out mate.
> 
> ...


when you have finished your skipload then yes go back to your normal diet but to be honest if you are finishing it at 9.00pm and still want to eat you simply are not doing it right


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> when you have finished your skipload then yes go back to your normal diet but to be honest if you are finishing it at 9.00pm and still want to eat you simply are not doing it right


My appetite is quite insatiable mate. Even after eating very large meals to the point where I feel sick, I don't find it hard to snack a few hours later on small things through the evening such as nuts or yogurts.

There have been times where where I've eaten through 500g of cashews without noticing whilst watching TV. I know they say that nuts are supposed to give u a feeling of fullness but I never feel it.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> I too am doing a similar thing. I should have probably mentioned this in the beginning that I want to use skiploading to gain size lol.
> 
> Sunday through to Friday I train everyday using PPPL (no weights on Thursday) and perform cardio twice a day. I keep protein high, fat low and carbs just about maintenance too get me through the day and workouts.
> 
> ...


Hey mate

just been reading up on this thread last year as Im back on skiploading now using it drop bf in run up my holidys in 7 weeks time

Skiploading every sunday and slowly lowering carbs thru week

Training 4 day split, mon, tue, weds off, thur, fri, sat off, sun skipload

Weight is 95kg at moment

bf around 10%

goal is get 6-8% in 7 weeks

My question mate is were u using skipload here to gain rather than for cutting?

What were ur macros like through the week on training days and non training day?

I was going to either keep my carbs same through week or carb cycle them

having low days smaller body parts and medium day and 1 high day on legs day

Which method worked best for u during the week before u hit your reefeed at weekend?

and the day after your skipload did u drop ur carbs right down low?

Really just trying to decide if I should keep at the same macros through week or carb cycle and start lowering carbs too the end the week

to help deplete my self so Im ready for skip on sunday

any advice on this mate


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> Hey mate
> 
> just been reading up on this thread last year as Im back on skiploading now using it drop bf in run up my holidys in 7 weeks time
> 
> ...


Hey Daz,

Sorry for the late reply pal, have been very busy recently.

I was using shipload as a mean to lean bulk mate. My bf % throughout the year remains sub 10% but I was trying to find another method to get bigger whilst keeping the same condition.

My carbs through the week were roughly 200g each day and on my one day off this would drop to 100g but I would consume more healthy fats on this day.

I do PPL 2x a week with Thursdays being my day off. Cardio I do everyday with a mixture of LISS and HIIT.

On the Sunday when I would skipload I was getting in 1200g of carbs primarily from oats and wholemeal bagels.

To be honest mate my approach to skiploading was incorrect as you are supposed to eat sugary, low fibre carbs. Essentially its a cheat day where fat and protein is kept to a minimum but I didn't feel comfortable doing this. For me bodybuilding is an aesthetic thing but I also want to live/promote a healthy, clean lifestyle.

After the carb-up, I felt very bloated and uncomfortable which I didn't like at all. Through the week my energy levels felt very low even on 200g of carbs. I would literally be craving for Sunday to come back again so that I can carb-up.

After a few months I dropped this approach and now eat in a much more consistent manner. I pay a lot of attention to peri-workout nutrition and carb timings. The funny this is that I've been on 150g of carbs for about 8 weeks now but feel much better and my energy levels are fine as well.

My current macros are 435/150/115.

I too am weighing in at 95kg and my body-fat % is lower than usual due to being on a low carb diet.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> Hey Daz,
> 
> Sorry for the late reply pal, have been very busy recently.
> 
> ...


Cheers for that mate

Interesting stuff

I feel the same as you regarding the health benefits side of skiploading

It did work well for me but like you I was starving through the week low energy

Waiting for that Sunday to hit! so I could stuff myself with over 1,000g high GI carbs

By the end the day id feel terrible from all the sugar but looked great full and vascular and pumped!

So your on 150g carbs now you say .

So do u not throw a high carb day in at all?

You just keep at 150g training days and non training days?

And again I agree mate the Peri window is really important and timing carbs

Would u mind posting up example ur training day daily diet for e.g including your peri window supps/shakes

Would be keen to see this like mate

get any new tips


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> Cheers for that mate
> 
> Interesting stuff
> 
> ...


I throw in a high carb day whenever I feel very fatigued and low on energy mate. This can be once a week or once every 2 weeks.

My macros are currently 430/150/115 on training days and 365/105/165 on non-training days.

Here is my peri-workout nutrition mate. I hope it helps. By using this new approach, I have seen my best gains to diet.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> I throw in a high carb day whenever I feel very fatigued and low on energy mate. This can be once a week or once every 2 weeks.
> 
> My macros are currently 430/150/115 on training days and 365/105/165 on non-training days.
> 
> Here is my peri-workout nutrition mate. I hope it helps. By using this new approach, I have seen my best gains to diet.


Cheers for that pal

Cant see the image though its blanked out

Not sure if it's my p.c at work atm

Im doing similar yourself

395gp/220g carbs/ 95g fat around 3,300 cals roughly on train days

No junk food just clean food

Then every 7 - 10 days high carb day from a lot of clean sources

How many carbs do u go for mate on your high day?

Do u stick with this style of dieting or do u change things up offseason if looking to add more muscle and grow?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> Cheers for that pal
> 
> Cant see the image though its blanked out
> 
> ...


That's strange mate, I just tried viewing the image in different browsers and it comes out fine.

Try the direct link

On a high carb day I'll throw in anywhere between 200g-400g carbs which works out to roughly 140g-280g of carbs. I try and stick to the lower figure as the high fibre content of oats doesn't sit well with me lol.

At the moment I'm cutting down for summer. I can tell I'm getting leaner by looking in the mirror but fortunately I'm not noticing any muscle loss or huge drops in body weight.


When maintaining my macros look like this... 440/220/115 and 365/105/165 on non-training days.

When bulking my macros look like this... 445/265/115 and 380/110/230 on non-training days.


As you can tell its not huge jumps but I've realized that my body doesn't require huge influxes in calories to grow. Even when maintaining or bulking I'll still throw in high carb days when I feel I need them.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> That's strange mate, I just tried viewing the image in different browsers and it comes out fine.
> 
> Try the direct link
> 
> ...


Hey mate

managed to get see that image

all looks great

your pretty much low carb all the time

I mean oyur 95kg same as me but I always thought 200g carbs was low for my weight

so when aiming for size/bulk Id shoot for double that 400g carbs on train days when bulking

but u only go up as high as 265

Have u just found ur sweet spot mate? and prefer keep ur healthy fats alot higher and carbs lower?

Also on r high carb day atm when ever u throw one in

could u give me some examples that days diet?

what kind of carbs are u eating and would they be timed or spaced out at most meals?


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> That's strange mate, I just tried viewing the image in different browsers and it comes out fine.
> 
> Try the direct link
> 
> ...


Also mate do u seperate your protein carb meals, and protein fat meals?

And if so do u mainly time ur carbs so 80% for example are in the peri window pre/intra/post

Meal 1 when u wake up is that protein carbs or protein fat?

interested as ive played around with changing it up see what works best for me

and protein carbs meal 1 is good for me over protein fat


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey @Dazarms

I think I have indeed found my sweet spot for carbs mate. I feel I get enough to replenish glycogen and stay anabolic without feeling like sh*t or suffering a dip in performance when at gym.

Last Thursday I was feeling quite rundown from all the training so I decided to have my high carb day on my rest day. This was my macro breakdown.

5200 calories

425g protein

385g carbs (consumed 400g of oats in 4x100g servings)

205g fat

Even though my carbs remain quite low majority of the time, my calories tend to never go below 3200. On that particular day I was eating every 2 hours which for me was fine. Didn't feel bloated or any discomfort. If anything I was still hungry at the end of the day lol.

On a high carb day I'll spread the carbs evenly through the day as if I consume too much in one sitting, my stomach gets easily upset. I prefer eating smaller meals more frequently.

On training days I'd say 90-95% of my carbs are placed around the peri-workout mate. The rest of my meals are all protein + fat.

For example...

- cashews + quark

- almonds + greek yogurt

- beef + vegetables

- chicken + vegetables

My post-workout meal for a few months has been...

240g salmon

100g sweet potato

100g carrots

170g greek yogurt

I find salmon much more filling compared to chicken and beef so prefer to eat this post-workout when I'm at my hungriest.

In terms of my carb sources...

- sweet potatoes

- oats (only on high carb days as the excess fibre doesn't sit with me well)

- broccoli

- sprouts

- carrots

- rice

Hope that helps mate


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> Hey @Dazarms
> 
> I think I have indeed found my sweet spot for carbs mate. I feel I get enough to replenish glycogen and stay anabolic without feeling like sh*t or suffering a dip in performance when at gym.
> 
> ...


mate thats a great help cheers

its good to see how ur nutrtion is as ur size and shape similar mine

ur carrying less BF tho from pics ive seen

Id thought ud kept dairy out tho , obviously it doesnt upset ur stomach or bother ur conditiont at all eating dairy foods, such as the quark and greek yoghurt

I always try stay away from dairy foods if cutting up more

for oats mate on ur high carb days that a whole lot oats!

have u ever tried gluten free/steel cut oats

they digest so much better and dont bloat at all

or another one I just started with is organic baby rice

I just pour boiling water on it mix it up and add teaspoon honey to it and scoop protein mixed in.

Makes a

great pre workout meal or at breakfast time

and u dont bloat at all.

its just 100% organic rice. I learnt this from Anth Bailes ifbb pro.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> mate thats a great help cheers
> 
> its good to see how ur nutrtion is as ur size and shape similar mine
> 
> ...


Dairy causes havoc with my stomach but for some reason its only milk and cheese that does this. Yogurts and Quark I have no issue with at all and I've read that this is actually a very common thing. Oats I always have with Soya milk which sits with me well.

I've tried gluten free oats but after a certain amount I feel the same discomfort mate. I came to the conclusion that it was down to the amount I was having in one sitting. If I have 100g of oats with 300ml of Soya milk spaced out every 2-3 hours I'm fine. I generally think its down to all that fibre in the oats fermenting away in your stomach.

Organic baby rice is awesome and I too got this idea from Anth Bailes lol. I can never find them for a reasonable price though hence why I don't eat them often.

I have to say sweet potato is my carb of choice though. I never get bloated eating it and it's so quick to prepare. I just cut the potato into wedges and nuke it in the microwave using a steam bag.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> Dairy causes havoc with my stomach but for some reason its only milk and cheese that does this. Yogurts and Quark I have no issue with at all and I've read that this is actually a very common thing. Oats I always have with Soya milk which sits with me well.
> 
> I've tried gluten free oats but after a certain amount I feel the same discomfort mate. I came to the conclusion that it was down to the amount I was having in one sitting. If I have 100g of oats with 300ml of Soya milk spaced out every 2-3 hours I'm fine. I generally think its down to all that fibre in the oats fermenting away in your stomach.
> 
> ...


ha Anth Bailes is the man like!

Im lucky enough live not that far away from his gym

The guy trains like a beast

Asda mate I think are doing 3 boxes baby rice for £3 or something like that

100g is 82.2g carbs I think

So I was having 50g morn and 50g pre workout with teaspoon manuka honey in the rice

used almond milk also mix it up with!

So on ur training days then atm for ur breakfast are u protein/fat man ?

like steak and nuts for example or 5 or 6 whole eggs with greens?

Ive tried both for meal 1 but im always starving and craving carbs come mid morning time

So I tend have a small amount morn. then protein fats rest the day till pre workout then bulk my carbs in peri window and post.

Have been using coco pops as pwo carb with isolate last week as I ran out vitargo.

Works great!


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> ha Anth Bailes is the man like!
> 
> Im lucky enough live not that far away from his gym
> 
> ...


Anth is awesome mate. Makes me feel proud to be British lol. Have you met him personally and if so, does he really look that lean and vascular in person? Some of the pics he posts on Instagram and Facebook look unreal.

I'm currently training early mornings mate and actually don't have a proper meal at all. All I have is...

- 50g Whey

- 3g BCAA

- 5g Leucine

- 15g Glutamine

It's intra-workout when I start ingesting carbs with extra BCAA's.

I'm the hungriest post-workout and later in the day so prefer to save my meals for then.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Also @Dazarms, from reading some of Anth's articles, he himself admits to not being a massive carb eater and prefers to eat a more sensible amount. He believes too many bodybuilders over-do it with carbs and that its unnecessary. Saying that though, I do believe that Anth is diabetic so he has to be quite careful with his carb intake and timings.


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> Also @Dazarms, from reading some of Anth's articles, he himself admits to not being a massive carb eater and prefers to eat a more sensible amount. He believes too many bodybuilders over-do it with carbs and that its unnecessary. Saying that though, I do believe that Anth is diabetic so he has to be quite careful with his carb intake and timings.


Yes mate met Anth few times now

At his gym but also in Newcastle and at bodypower

He is always in great nick year round

He has to eat clean foods pretty much all time tho down to his diabetic.

So he cant and doesnt incorprate cheat meals in his diet

just a high carb day every 10-12 days all clean foods

his approach high protein, moderate carb, low fat

similar to BBers past like arnold and co

So even if ur hitting big legs session mate do u follow that above?

no carbs still pre legs or back in mornings?

if I train early morns , I normaly train 6pm after work

but if early morn at weekend ill normaly do

some carbs before session esp if legs or back

as my last carb meal would been around 7pm night before

as my last two meals in evening are protein/fats

so would be long time to go without carbs if skipped them upon waking


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> Yes mate met Anth few times now
> 
> At his gym but also in Newcastle and at bodypower
> 
> ...


Leg days are the only days where I may make an exception to pre-workout carbs but I go about this depending on how I feel. If I feel very run down and fatigued then I'll have some carbs but in most cases I don't.

Today was a leg day for me in fact and I did that session without and pre-workout carbs.


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## brightfuture7 (Mar 23, 2014)

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## J4MES (Jul 28, 2013)

Dazarms said:


> Yes mate met Anth few times now
> 
> At his gym but also in Newcastle and at bodypower
> 
> ...


Do you mind if I PM you mate about lets add mass?


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## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

J4MES said:


> Do you mind if I PM you mate about lets add mass?


Yeah course mate no problem


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