# Mega doses used by elite lifters



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

as a warning because i know big dose threads have gotten a lot of animosity lately, this is just examples of what people out there do sometimes use, people at the top of their game that have made the decision 'I am willing to shave years from my life for my goals'

i myself go anywhere from 700 - 1.5g depending on compounds, duration, goals ect so *dont be that knuckle head that browses this and thinks i condone or promote even the doses i use personally let alone those outlined in this thread*

that out the way here's some info ive gathered from various private and public forum browsing on some elite level powerlifter usage

the reason i list PL doses is because its less popular and less in the light like bodybuilding where you just get people creating random s**t online for shock factor (think ronnie coleman or arnolds cycle) , the cycles i post below are admitted usage be it from posts on forums before they were as successful, facebook posts, relayed info or in interview

Stan Efferding









posted by someone who trained with him (cannot remember / didnt save the users name) posted on getbig

1,5g Test
750mg Tren
1g Mast
1g bold
and various orals as needed (all high end PL heavily abuse orals)

Dan Green









posted in FB comments between dan and another poster (i personally didnt see this post)

3g Test
1g Mast
1g Bold
1g tren 
150mg var daily

Sam Parker









admitted in interview with dave crosland

1g Test 
1g Bold 
*THIS IS A CRUISE*
he went on to say he runs up to 6g on a blast and hundreds of units of insulin per week

Brandon Lilly









put this out as his recommendation in the initial prototype copies of the cube aimed at lifters of all levels

Weeks 1-6 Testosterone Cypionate: 500-600mg
Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg
Anavar: 50mg per day
Weeks 7-10 Testosterone Cypionate: 1000-1200mg
Nandrolone Decanoate 600mg
14 days out Add 50mg Trenbolone Acetate EOD Add 50mg dianabol a day

Lilly has ran higher than this himself, talking on a reddit AMA about going up to 100mg of dianabol per day on cycle 
the above is just a blanket 'average' cycle he put out for those running the cube method into a meet

Scott Mendelson









is extremely tight lipped about his doses so dont have much on him
in interview with dave palumbo recently he admitted to using 500mg anadrol per day

and finally Chris Duffin









was pretty active on the forums before he got big in powerlifting, use to post up on bodybuilding . com, reddit and outlaws which i will directly copy and paste

"I?m a little hesitant to write up everything for couple reasons. This isn?t for everyone, is not what I recommend, and I?m still experimenting. Much of my performance has been from the sheer amount of work I put in and with messing with the larger dosages this year I don?t have the capacity to train balls out like I used to (although I still train a lot if you follow my logs). HOWEVER my gym, family life, and professional life have all grown so much in the last few years that I simply don?t have the time to make it to the gym as frequently, as long, and I?m usually doing a ton of coaching when I?m there now. So I'm just figuring out how to put all this together and what works best in the end for me.

So a little background and context.
I had deadlifted 4x bw in comp before ever going on.
I set a #4 all-time multi total my first cycle on 4 years ago (and my last multi-ply meet)
I am chasing some very aggressive goals and I have some major issues that are only getting worse. I may only have a few meets left that I can try achieve my goals at before the issues become insurmountable.

Here is some basic info. Sorry I?m not going to lay all this out in an ?how to? approach and there is a lot of detail and timing that is important so don?t try to duplicate without knowledge.

Off season
175-250mg test and maybe some anavar in the 100-120mg range
GH 20iu (pulsed preworkout only 4x a week)
Slin 20iu(Humalog preworkout only but timed to not interfere with GH and combined with special shake of carbs, creatine, amino?s, potassium that is drunken with it and during workout)
IGF1LR3 & PegMGF (alternate between the two immediately postworkout along with herbal Glucose shuttling sups to upregulate after GH and Slin)
GH releasing Peptides taken non training days

With this I can train like crazy and recover from it and if I do the work I can keep the progress rolling like when I?m on cycle. The pulsing approach keeps my blood sugar in control nicely versus the more frequent doses of GH most people do and seem to get better recovery with putting everything around the workout.

Cycle
Last meet 4 weeks ago I was up to the following by the meet
3100mg Test
700mg Mast Prop
700mg NPP
700mg Tren
I only ran two weeks of orals since I have bigger meet next month
2 weeks Winny/Drol @ 100mg each

Currently @ 3 weeks out
I added my GH/Slin/Peptide combo the last 4 weeks on top of everything above
Will be dropping all that in a few days to give my 3 weeks to get weight and bloat in control
3200mg test
1400mg Mast Prop (bumped to 1050 then 1400 over last 4 weeks)
1050mg NPP (just bumped)
700mg Tren
Two weeks ago I added orals (5 weeks out)
120mg Tbol
120mg Var
75mg Winny
3 weeks out (next few days) I will be dropping Var and Winny and adding
1000mcg Methly Tren

Again these dosages are fairly new to me this year. Just trying to see what I can tolerate, what the pros and cons are, and?. I?m all in, I don?t have many more shots at what I want to hit.

Had a liver function Test 3 weeks ago with AST 40 & ALT60. No anti-E or other ancillaries just relying on Masteron and over the counter PES Erase Pro.

My first All-Time raw record set earlier this year was much lower dosed.
Was only an 8 week cycle coming off GH/Slin/Peptide coast cycle.
at end I was at
1500MG Test
1100mg Mast Prop
700mg Tren
700mg NPP
600mg EQ
240mg dbol (180/240 the last weeks only)
120mg Var

one last note.... I probably spend more time on Var than off over the course of a year."

cant emphasize this enough, this isnt my fu**ing advice, this is purely for those interested in what some people are willing to do to achieve their goals

these people not only are the genetic elite with incredible work ethic and determination but also push every variable they can to the extreme; training, food, rest and recovery and drugs as outlined above

also dont use this thread to feed your denial about your use, gear is unhealthy period, to use extreme doses to justify your own is like a 20 a day smoker saying im fine because there is people out there smoking 60

use what YOU want to use to reach your personal goals in exchange for the potential negative side effects to your health.

lastly 'who cares what they use?' me and many others, diet and training advice is out there in plain sight in the abundance, gear is more of a fitness industry faux pas so its nice to have all stones unturned in what people at the top of their game are doing


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## Deltz123 (Oct 8, 2017)

These are Some good first cycles.


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

Well that makes me feel better about my own use.


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## Lowkii (Nov 25, 2017)

I can't imagine running 3g's of Test. You'd be a walking round with a constant boner... Most I've ever gone up to myself is a 1g, and even fat birds started looking attractive.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Lowkii said:


> I can't imagine running 3g's of Test. You'd be a walking round with a constant boner... Most I've ever gone up to myself is a 1g, and even fat birds started looking attractive.


 my last big cycle was 1.5 g test and i experienced the most hair loss i ever have and a ridiculous libido
overall i felt good though, real high sense of well being.

3g is nuts but so is having 375kg on your back


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Not surprised by this at all. When I was a competitive strongman the doses were pretty silly. Haven't ran 6g of gear but ran some hefty doses.

Nobody at that level is using 500mg test and 400mg of Npp.

Top level Powerlifters, strongmen, bodybuilders or any athlete for that matter will do whatever it takes to reach the top.

Maybe crazy to the man on the street but to them there is no limit. Got to admire their drive and determination to succeed in their chosen sport at all costs.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

boutye911 said:


> Not surprised by this at all. When I was a competitive strongman the doses were pretty silly. Haven't ran 6g of gear but ran some hefty doses.
> 
> Nobody at that level is using 500mg test and 400mg of Npp.
> 
> ...


 yes and its interesting to read about imo

all other aspects are there to be seen, they train hard as f**k, they pummel back masses of food and take any supplement be it health or performance based to give them any kind of fractional edge

i read these dosages and think to myself even if i had the genetics or the promise i dont think i could do this to my body

but its many factors that goes into the blanket statement 'genetics' and one of those factors is the willingness to completely put your health to one side in order to achieve a certain goal


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## Baka (Dec 9, 2015)

Wow , now I get why they have the bloated stomach too !


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## Sam R (Jan 13, 2018)

Interesting post, as much as I love seeing these posts about extreme gear use, I hate the fact that it subconsciously makes me think it's okay to run higher doses, and also makes me feel I won't be making progress on the little doses I use. These guys must ALL have crazy blood pressure issues, no way can anyone weigh 300+lbs and run 5grams+ of gear without blood pressure being through the roof.


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

swole troll said:


> as a warning because i know big dose threads have gotten a lot of animosity lately, this is just examples of what people out there do sometimes use, people at the top of their game that have made the decision 'I am willing to shave years from my life for my goals'
> 
> i myself go anywhere from 700 - 1.5g depending on compounds, duration, goals ect so *dont be that knuckle head that browses this and thinks i condone or promote even the doses i use personally let alone those outlined in this thread*
> 
> ...


 Unbelievable amounts. I've always wondered what they used. I wondered what eddy



swole troll said:


> as a warning because i know big dose threads have gotten a lot of animosity lately, this is just examples of what people out there do sometimes use, people at the top of their game that have made the decision 'I am willing to shave years from my life for my goals'
> 
> i myself go anywhere from 700 - 1.5g depending on compounds, duration, goals ect so *dont be that knuckle head that browses this and thinks i condone or promote even the doses i use personally let alone those outlined in this thread*
> 
> ...


 Unbelievable and great research.


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

swole troll said:


> yes and its interesting to read about imo
> 
> all other aspects are there to be seen, they train hard as f**k, they pummel back masses of food and take any supplement be it health or performance based to give them any kind of fractional edge
> 
> ...


 Couldn't agree more mate.

Definitely interesting to see how the top level athletes achieve their goals.

I'm not sure how high on their agend their health is. I know when I was pushing on to Britain's and UK's strongest man I would have done anything to win. My health never even entered my fcuking thoughts.

Looking back it was pretty stupid but hindsight is a wonderful thing. When your in that bubble there is only one goal, to win at all costs. Most other aspects of life don't enter your thoughts.


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## maccertimur (Jul 8, 2018)

Sam R said:


> Interesting post, as much as I love seeing these posts about extreme gear use, I hate the fact that it subconsciously makes me think it's okay to run higher doses, and also makes me feel I won't be making progress on the little doses I use. These guys must ALL have crazy blood pressure issues, no way can anyone weigh 300+lbs and run 5grams+ of gear without blood pressure being through the roof.


 This physic was achieved on 375 mg of Test ,200mg Tren and 400mg Masteron.

Pro bodybuilders and pro powelifters can afford to sleep,train,relax and eat a lot more efficient than anyone here.Which helps to compensate huge amounts of gear by discipline.Which people don't have since for them competing is their life style ,whereas for most it's a hobby.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

500mg Anadrol per day......

WTF


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## wilko1985 (May 17, 2010)

Jesus, I'd be laughed out of the room for mentioning my current blast of 200mg test and 400mg primo :lol:

Great thread mate. Very interesting to see what's done at the top of a field. I wonder how that applies and compares to other competitive performance sports.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sam R said:


> Interesting post, as much as I love seeing these posts about extreme gear use, I hate the fact that it subconsciously makes me think it's okay to run higher doses, and also makes me feel I won't be making progress on the little doses I use. These guys must ALL have crazy blood pressure issues, no way can anyone weigh 300+lbs and run 5grams+ of gear without blood pressure being through the roof.


 these are the genetically elite at the top of their game and there is huge diminished returns on gear

500mg - 1000mg test is a huge difference, 1000 - 1500mg not so much, ive not pushed anything beyond this dose of one compound so cant personally comment further but ive experienced it with other compounds also that just because you double it does not mean you get double the result even if all other variables are increased in tandem (calories, training volume ect)

dante trudel once said 'if you cannot get massive on a gram of test alone your training or diet is off' 
now thats not to say that will be a pretty or quick 'massive' but you get the idea

brandon lilly has done talks about his health in interview (cba to dig it up but its out there) and his blood pressure was unreal, cholesterol total s**t, sleep apnea ect just an extremely unhealthy person

being 300lb irrelevant of what doses you did or do take to get there and irrelevant of total body composition is asking for a heart attack as you go into your 50s and beyond (not a dead cert but massively unfavorably stacking the odds)

its not 'okay' to run higher and higher doses unless its okay with you 
but be wary that you are putting more bullets in the chamber while playing russian roulette with your health

these people are top of their game and all their top competition also has really good genetics and work ethic, eats a s**t ton of food, sleeps as much as they can, basically have all variables in check to the best of their ability so that only leaves one other thing.. upping the PEDs as and when needed with no fear for long term health holding them back


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

maccertimur said:


> This physic was achieved on 375 mg of Test ,200mg Tren and 400mg Masteron.
> 
> Pro bodybuilders and pro powelifters can afford to sleep,train,relax and eat a lot more efficient than anyone here.Which helps to compensate huge amounts of gear by discipline.Which people don't have since for them competing is their life style ,whereas for most it's a hobby.


 He maybe used those doses in the run up to the show but his psyique wasn't built on 375mg test and 200mg tren.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

GTT said:


> 500mg Anadrol per day......
> 
> WTF


 scott is vague about this

dave palumbo asks him "i heard back in the day you use to take 50 anadrol tabs, is that true?" and scott endlessly tries to move on until he finally admits that he did

dave then says when he use to take 3 tabs a day (again im assuming theyre 50mg) he would be crippled with lethargy and unable to eat, probing for scott to divulge more but hes having none of it and just says "next question dave"

i remember seeing jimmy the bull on some sort of RX muscle talk panel with some polish guy, dave palumbo, bostin loyd and ariella and when asked how long jimmy would cycle anadrol he claimed he took it for 3 years iirc, how true this is i dont know but jimmy was a monster in his time and he had no real reason to lie

hell even bostin loyd is open about his 13g cycles

see my post ITT from 2015 ref bostins cycle at the time

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/260528-rich-pianas-cycle/?page=2&do=embed


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

wilko1985 said:


> Jesus, I'd be laughed out of the room for mentioning my current blast of 200mg test and 400mg primo :lol:
> 
> Great thread mate. Very interesting to see what's done at the top of a field. I wonder how that applies and compares to other competitive performance sports.


 strongman, powerlifting and bodybuilding are the worse culprits by a long shot


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

@Huntingground get in here :lol:


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## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

I like these types of post that expose the reality of PED's at the elite level.

Many severely underestimate just what exactly these athletes are taking.

I understand why many lie about usage but some just take the p*ss. Even on a well known paid site, 1 pro is saying that when he pushes, it's never much than 1g!

Yeah, alright mate......


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Oldnewb said:


> I like these types of post that expose the reality of PED's at the elite level.
> 
> Many severely underestimate just what exactly these athletes are taking.
> 
> ...


 lee priest is the worse for it with his 400mg test and 300mg deca

in some regards i could understand it because most noobies will start training and look up ronnie colemans training routine and then start hitting a body part split with about 40 sets per muscle group

i think their fear is these numpties will do it with their cycles too if they admit to them

but i dont think many people that use gear let alone new to it would be willing to sit their and inject themselves with that much oil and or deal with the lethargy and general feeling of crap that taking that many orals would cause.

i think its better just to emphasize that they take this because they have to because of where theyre at
you wouldnt buy a gram of coke and lay the whole thing out on a mirror and snort the lot on your first time using it so why would you pin vials and vials of gear on your very first cycle

once youve got the first cycle out the way you realize how much 'you' actually need and know that it would be ridiculous and unnecessary to use the doses the pros do


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## Sen (Feb 7, 2018)

What I don't get is how they manage all the food they need on 750-1g tren


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Sen said:


> What I don't get is how they manage all the food they need on 750-1g tren


 yeah i dont understand it myself

same for the orals

i mean the 'good' thing about powerlifting at this level and heavier weight category is they can be more lax with where their calories are coming from, obviously whole food is ideal but shakes, burgers and chocolate milk are always on the menu if needed

some people dont suffer appetite suppression as bad as others and these guys are willing to do anything they can to make it to the top so im sure there is plenty of occasions where its just get the fu**ing food down

also insulin, GHRP 6 and mk677 make it a lot easier to eat


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## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

boutye911 said:


> He maybe used those doses in the run up to the show but his psyique wasn't built on 375mg test and 200mg tren.


 Have to agree if anyone believes this type of muscle is built on those doses is kidding themselves and fallen in for the whole idea of the low dose. You can build a decent physique on those doses but not stage winning physiques.


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## Mountain of Muscle (Jun 22, 2016)

A UK pro that competed with Ronnie said Ronnie used to take 1g sus a day leading in to a show. Not sure about other compounds...


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Mayzini said:


> Have to agree if anyone believes this type of muscle is built on those doses is kidding themselves and fallen in for the whole idea of the low dose. You can build a decent physique on those doses but not stage winning physiques.


 a lot of it is a 'half life' with these retired but still jacked guys where they will claim X dose and it may be true for that exact time and thats because maintaining muscle is much easier than building muscle

so many might be running lower dosed cycles now but theyre not progressing anymore, theyre just looking fuller for a few months and maintaining the size they already achieved on the higher doses


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## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

swole troll said:


> a lot of it is a 'half life' with these retired but still jacked guys where they will claim X dose and it may be true for that exact time and thats because maintaining muscle is much easier than building muscle
> 
> so many might be running lower dosed cycles now but theyre not progressing anymore, theyre just looking fuller for a few months and maintaining the size they already achieved on the higher doses


 I agree due to work life and building a new house I have dropped everything to a cruise and it's easier to maintain the muscle. Somof someone asked me now I would say 250mg test a week. But I am not building anything more on that just maintaining and keeping full and my physique is poor in comparison to any of these guys


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## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

Mountain of Muscle said:


> A UK pro that competed with Ronnie said Ronnie used to take 1g sus a day leading in to a show. Not sure about other compounds...


 I read an article I while back stating lee Haney was using 500mg sus per day so the above would definitely be believable


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

Built my physique up decently with around 1.2-2g of gear the last 3 blasts.

Low doses is fine but for anyone like myself who wants to compete then you definitely need to go up in doses and my doses aren't even half of what these elite guys use. I mean it puts it into perspective.


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## maccertimur (Jul 8, 2018)

dtmiscool said:


> View attachment 167917
> 
> 
> Built my physique up decently with around 1.2-2g of gear the last 3 blasts.
> ...


 Are you going for men's physic?


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

maccertimur said:


> Are you going for men's physic?


 I am. Maybe classic eventually but no where near that physically yet. I'd rather enter something I have a chance of winning lol.


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## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

I would never betray the trust of a mate on a public forum, but I still have private and group chat WhatsApp convos where Sam goes into a lot of detail about his use over the last few years. Some of it is mind blowing. If I posted it you literally wouldn't believe it.

Almost as mind blowing as the calories. In fact, I think I'd sooner do all the gear than eat what he was eating, given the choice.

But, that's what it takes to squat 420kg. I remember from his old journal on a now-deleted forum called Iron City. In his log he was squatting 300kg for reps, on a de-load week, with a torn hammy. Some of his workouts would end the life of most mortals.


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## Deltz123 (Oct 8, 2017)

dtmiscool said:


> View attachment 167917
> 
> 
> Built my physique up decently with around 1.2-2g of gear the last 3 blasts.
> ...


 Have you ever been fat-ish?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> I am. Maybe classic eventually but no where near that physically yet. I'd rather enter something I have a chance of winning lol.


 isnt this the progression most take over the years ? growing into each weight class and cutting back until you get to a point where in order to make the weight youd have to cut muscle mass so you then push on to the next class

im not too clued up on how this works in bodybuilding / physique comps but i know in powerlifting a lot of guys will climb through the weight classes slowly as they build more quality weight


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## Ferenor (Jun 27, 2018)

Interesting thread, always good to hear a pro recipe


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## stewedw (Jun 15, 2015)

Interesting read.

I wonder, has anyway here ran 1g test plus another oil and perhaps winny?

If you have, did you feel happy healthy and sleep ok? For most of us, we use tren unless the negative sides, sleep, acid reflux f**k us up. So wwe look to other meds, and to gain well most sit middle of the road with max of 1g of total oils plus maybe as an oral. So I'm curious if you can live a day to day job and life and run slightly higher doses.

I had bloods in November, liver values slightly elevates, ie under 10% higher and I was running test tren mast, with a two day bender for a stag two three days prior to the bloods.

I was shocked that things were all in the better side of the the range minus the liver. As I've been blasting and xeusijgnoe for six years, never mega doses. When I asked if the liver values were bad I was told "most regular drinkers have values bettwen 50%-200%higher than you"........ All other values were great (I was completely shutdown obvs and estrogen levels showed a false high due to being on tren) but yeah, all good.

I was tans hadn't been running liver support, but chose to get support max after this and run daily and then added 35 mins cardio per week overs and over too.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

stewedw said:


> Interesting read.
> 
> I wonder, has anyway here ran 1g test plus another oil and perhaps winny?
> 
> ...


 Yep

Have a read

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/310361-how-to-get-huge-in-a-hurry-gains-before-health-and-my-experience/?do=embed


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

swole troll said:


> isnt this the progression most take over the years ? growing into each weight class and cutting back until you get to a point where in order to make the weight youd have to cut muscle mass so you then push on to the next class
> 
> im not too clued up on how this works in bodybuilding / physique comps but i know in powerlifting a lot of guys will climb through the weight classes slowly as they build more quality weight


 Yeah precisely what I was getting at mate. I think I'd hold my own fairly decently in men's physique currently. But end goal is definitely classic. Maybe get a few top 3 finishes behind me before trying to head up a class.

My first blast of 2018 was 750 test 400 npp. Next was 900 test 600 npp. Followed by 1.2g test 400 tren.

Next blast all planned out at 500 test 600 tren 400 mast. Possibly up the tren even more depending on if I suffer with any sides. I didnt last run at all with an addition of a dht. My cardio didn't even feel that bad. Have enough tren for probably 700mg for 12 or so weeks and enough test for 750mg. So may up it around week 8.

Would look something like

weeks 1-7

500 test

600 tren

400 mast

weeks 7-12

750 test

700 tren

400 mast

..by far the biggest cycle I've ever ran. Will probably do a log of it if people are interested.


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

Deltz123 said:


> Have you ever been fat-ish?


 I've been about 38% bf around 6 years ago haha. I was hella fat. Didn't go to the gym and lived on takeaways.

103kg 38-40% bodyfat I was. Definitely not healthy at all. Took 2 years to drop down to 10% then jumped on the bulk.


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## bonacris (May 20, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> Yeah precisely what I was getting at mate. I think I'd hold my own fairly decently in men's physique currently. But end goal is definitely classic. Maybe get a few top 3 finishes behind me before trying to head up a class.
> 
> My first blast of 2018 was 750 test 400 npp. Next was 900 test 600 npp. Followed by 1.2g test 400 tren.
> 
> ...


 what was your blood work like after those blasts.


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

bonacris said:


> what was your blood work like after those blasts.


 Surprisingly not too bad. Worst one was the tren blast but was to be expected. Health markers were back in normal range within 8 weeks on the two npp blasts. Tren took around 10 weeks.

Usual culprits on hdl/ldl being out of whack. RBC was elevated but within range. Given blood since then after both npp blasts. So should be sitting fine now.


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## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

@swole troll I wonder why deca doesn't play a big part in a lot of powerlifters cycles? I assumed the joint benefits would make it desirable


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Oldnewb said:


> @swole troll I wonder why deca doesn't play a big part in a lot of powerlifters cycles? I assumed the joint benefits would make it desirable


 Brandon Lilly outlines it in the recommended generic cycle he gave out with the first copies of the cube and Chris duffin lists npp in his cycle

Also just because these are typical cycles it doesn't mean it is the only cycle they ever run it's just the ones I could find.

I personally love nandrolone

The fullness and the strength is great!

Unfortunately I don't get the joint cushioning effect myself


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## Do it big (Apr 24, 2018)

swole troll said:


> 3g Test
> 1g Mast
> 1g Bold
> 1g tren
> 150mg var daily


 Running a gram of tren is pretty hardcore, then combined with multiple grams of various other compounds and some oral thrown in ha ha ... Serious s**t


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

dtmiscool said:


> Surprisingly not too bad. Worst one was the tren blast but was to be expected. Health markers were back in normal range within 8 weeks on the two npp blasts. Tren took around 10 weeks.
> 
> Usual culprits on hdl/ldl being out of whack. RBC was elevated but within range. Given blood since then after both npp blasts. So should be sitting fine now.


 Something I wanted to research with Npp was the effect on rbc. My rbc goes up from testosterone. I'm presuming it will be the same ?


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## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

Great post mate. Crazy to even imagine pinning that much gear! I cant even imagine a gram of test a week lol

500mg anadrol a day is insane! I have always been interested in trying it in the future at a high dose after seeing different medical studies which use pretty high doses of it aswell.

Do you think these guys slowly build there doses up over cycles or just jump straight into the big doses?


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

gavzilla said:


> Something I wanted to research with Npp was the effect on rbc. My rbc goes up from testosterone. I'm presuming it will be the same ?


 I think you'll find every AAS raises RBC mate. Atleast from my experience.


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## gavzilla (Feb 7, 2010)

dtmiscool said:


> I think you'll find every AAS raises RBC mate. Atleast from my experience.


 Yeah cheers for that. Was wondering what's the worst between test or Deca ? It seems I have 2 downfalls to taking gear which is raised rbc and oestrogen conversion. Cholesterol seems to be good from advice of others. I do give blood every 3 months and figuring out my ai dosages on blasts and trt.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I have been told from decent sources that Frampton was on 1g pharma Sust a day for 6 weeks in lead up to WSM. Also that Dan Green is on 2.5g Tren pw year round (guy who told me owns a large gym in USA and trains pro BBers and strength athletes).

I didn't hear these from Rob or Dan themselves but I have no reason to disbelieve. Even national level PLers take ridiculous amounts of gear.

I have run big cycles in the past but they are just one part of the equation. Food/training/sleep/rest/clean living etc etc......

The actual gear itself won't kill you, it is the side-effects like BP which will kill you if you are not careful - and these are easily controlled. The organs most susceptible to damage are kidneys (damaged from high BP) and the heart. The liver seems to be handle immense amounts of abuse.


----------



## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

Interesting read. They seem to love their masteron thrown in there too among everything else.


----------



## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

SkinnyJ said:


> Interesting read. They seem to love their masteron thrown in there too among everything else.


 E2 control as much as anything ..


----------



## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

Huntingground said:


> I have been told from decent sources that Frampton was on 1g pharma Sust a day for 6 weeks in lead up to WSM. Also that Dan Green is on 2.5g Tren pw year round (guy who told me owns a large gym in USA and trains pro BBers and strength athletes).
> 
> I didn't hear these from Rob or Dan themselves but I have no reason to disbelieve. Even national level PLers take ridiculous amounts of gear.
> 
> ...


 2.5g Tren a week year round?! Hold s**t haha


----------



## PsychedUp (Sep 20, 2018)

https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/steroids-forever

You guys might find this an interesting read, relevant to this thread.

In a nutshell; high level HW powerlifter who began juicing at 16 and who has taken ridiculous amounts of gear, gives his experiences and reasoning behind it. He basically 'just filled up the syringe' with whatever he could.

At least read it til you get to the part where he recounts the story where they had to inject cattle hormone pellets because there was no other gear around.


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

PsychedUp said:


> https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/steroids-forever
> 
> You guys might find this an interesting read, relevant to this thread.
> 
> ...


 Good read, like the ace card analogy.

Puts a nice light on people using their ace card to get some abs.


----------



## themav (Oct 7, 2010)

@dtmiscool

Whats your approach to bulking? - are you protective of seeing your abs the whole journey?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Simon90 said:


> Great post mate. Crazy to even imagine pinning that much gear! I cant even imagine a gram of test a week lol
> 
> 500mg anadrol a day is insane! I have always been interested in trying it in the future at a high dose after seeing different medical studies which use pretty high doses of it aswell.
> 
> Do you think these guys slowly build there doses up over cycles or just jump straight into the big doses?


 Yes

Like anyone does with all the variables

You don't walk in the gym on first day and try to squat 300kg, you slowly ramp up over the years

Same with food, you start at a 300-500kcal surplus and slowly ramp up over time

Rest between sessions, to begin with you can progress every other day on a lift, over time it literally can be a slight increase on a lift per training cycle (8-12 weeks)

And these guys will have no doubt started on a typical oral only cycle or 400-600mg test and slowly over the years progressed it along with all other variables to where they are today


----------



## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

swole troll said:


> Yes
> 
> Like anyone look to lush it does with all the variables
> 
> ...


 Have you ever seen anything on Thomas Gleeson use? he used to post here;

320kg DL @ 88kg

250kg Bench

He's one brutally brutally strong lad.


----------



## arbffgadm100 (Jun 3, 2016)

Pancake' said:


> Have you ever seen anything on Thomas Gleeson use? he used to post here;
> 
> 320kg DL @ 88kg
> 
> ...


 250kg bench at 88kg?

Jesus.


----------



## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

arbffgadm100 said:


> 250kg bench at 88kg?
> 
> Jesus.


 http://champ-athletics.com/en/interview-mit-powerlifter-thomas-gleeson/


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Pancake' said:


> Have you ever seen anything on Thomas Gleeson use? he used to post here;
> 
> 320kg DL @ 88kg
> 
> ...





arbffgadm100 said:


> 250kg bench at 88kg?
> 
> Jesus.


 I have no idea who he is tbh mate, I just googled him

And it's worth noting that he is an equipped lifter so his raw bench will be much less than 250kg

Not taking anything away from his achievements but there is a BIG difference between equipped and raw numbers.


----------



## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

swole troll said:


> I have no idea who he is tbh mate, I just googled him
> 
> And it's worth noting that he is an equipped lifter so his raw bench will be much less than 250kg
> 
> Not taking anything away from his achievements but there is a BIG difference between equipped and raw numbers.


 25% or so difference for elite equipped lifters wouldnt you say maybe more. but its still bloody heavy lols


----------



## zariph (Jul 23, 2015)

Could some1 explain the reason why they all you mast?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Mayzini said:


> 25% or so difference for elite equipped lifters wouldnt you say maybe more. but its still bloody heavy lols


 Yea guy's still a brute...

Wasn't aware how much it increased

Is that triple ply?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

zariph said:


> Could some1 explain the reason why they all you mast?


 Chris duffin says its to manage oestrogen in his post from outlaws

Also they're banging a lot of 19nors and mast really helps offset the sides of 19nors

Plus some do notice an increase in aggression on it at high dose


----------



## zariph (Jul 23, 2015)

swole troll said:


> Chris duffin says its to manage oestrogen in his post from outlaws
> 
> Also they're banging a lot of 19nors and mast really helps offset the sides of 19nors
> 
> Plus some do notice an increase in aggression on it at high dose


 Makes sense, so its not that it will add noticable strength at those doses?


----------



## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

zariph said:


> Could some1 explain the reason why they all you mast?


 I believe if you look at many Pro level BB'ers they also include Mast in. I know JP and many of his athletes do, I believe from memory he says mainly for Oestrogen balance.


----------



## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

swole troll said:


> Yea guy's still a brute...
> 
> Wasn't aware how much it increased
> 
> Is that triple ply?


 to be honest I am not really that well versed in power lifting, I enjoy it but I like to read everything from bodybuilding to powerlifting in respect of training, I recall and article stating the differential for the average lift is about 10% to 15% to their lift being equipped. however the same article didnt go into whether it was single ply or multi. I assume multi as some feds allow single ply dont they for raw lifting.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

zariph said:


> Makes sense, so its not that it will add noticable strength at those doses?


 if your aggression goes up generally you can lift more 
have you never go yourself really fired up for a big attempt and it felt lighter than it would have had you strolled up to the bar with your head in the clouds ?

i personally have never ran masteron any higher than 500mg and even then its like a pair of hair clippers so cant comment on just how much it does at that dose with that many other compounds involved but it has its place for aggression and oestrogen management / androgen to oestrogen ratio as mentioned


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Who is this jp I keep hearing about?


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

GTT said:


> Who is this jp I keep hearing about?


 Jordan Peters


----------



## zariph (Jul 23, 2015)

swole troll said:


> if your aggression goes up generally you can lift more
> have you never go yourself really fired up for a big attempt and it felt lighter than it would have had you strolled up to the bar with your head in the clouds ?
> 
> i personally have never ran masteron any higher than 500mg and even then its like a pair of hair clippers so cant comment on just how much it does at that dose with that many other compounds involved but it has its place for aggression and oestrogen management / androgen to oestrogen ratio as mentioned


 Yeh I see - also heard that it inhibits the SHBG somehow?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

GTT said:


> Who is this jp I keep hearing about?


 Best UK bodybuilder at the moment imo

Pure freak, ton of mass on a short frame and strong as f**k!


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

themav said:


> @dtmiscool
> 
> Whats your approach to bulking? - are you protective of seeing your abs the whole journey?


 I mean I like to be able to see some definition year round. Haven't been over 15% bf in a couple of years. I'm not bothered about abs, just more conscious on not getting fat. Prefer to be at a healthy body fat considering I'm shoving in a lot of gear. (Or what I thought was a lot before this thread haha)


----------



## 75013 (Feb 22, 2017)

I'd be interested to know what people think are safe doses with minimal/ no risk of long term issues (including having to be on TRT for life). I've often thought that I'd do a small cycle of something like 250mg TE per week if I ever ended up on TRT. I'm not on TRT though and feeling pretty good. Has anyone never recovered from a 250/w cycle or died from it?


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

charlysays said:


> I'd be interested to know what people think are safe doses with minimal/ no risk of long term issues (including having to be on TRT for life). I've often thought that I'd do a small cycle of something like 250mg TE per week if I ever ended up on TRT. I'm not on TRT though and feeling pretty good. Has anyone never recovered from a 250/w cycle or died from it?


 The trouble is, you may intend for that to be your top dose but once you start you will keep going


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

charlysays said:


> I'd be interested to know what people think are safe doses with minimal/ no risk of long term issues (including having to be on TRT for life). I've often thought that I'd do a small cycle of something like 250mg TE per week if I ever ended up on TRT. I'm not on TRT though and feeling pretty good. Has anyone never recovered from a 250/w cycle or died from it?


 You'll use more than 250mg if you ever use 250mg.

The safest dose is 0mg per week until your testosterone drops below the natural range


----------



## maccertimur (Jul 8, 2018)

swole troll said:


> Best UK bodybuilder at the moment imo
> 
> Pure freak, ton of mass on a short frame and strong as f**k!


 I believe he used to have a better waist to hips ratio at some point where he looked amazing.

He kind of lost it now ,with all that chase for freaky muscle mass.


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

maccertimur said:


> I believe he used to have a better waist to hips ratio at some point where he looked amazing.
> 
> He kind of lost it now ,with all that chase for freaky muscle mass.


 I agree. I'm not a fan of the freaky mass look. It's not appealing at all. To anyone. With the exception of a comp.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

maccertimur said:


> I believe he used to have a better waist to hips ratio at some point where he looked amazing.
> 
> He kind of lost it now ,with all that chase for freaky muscle mass.


 Yeah in terms of on paper he doesn't look 'as good' now

I say best bodybuilder with an appreciation to someone being able to put on that much muscle tissue

Aesthetically he looks like s**t


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

swole troll said:


> Best UK bodybuilder at the moment imo
> 
> Pure freak, ton of mass on a short frame and strong as f**k!


 Watched a few of his vids, his breathing at rest is like mine with a smashed cv on loads of tren after having walked up a few flights of stairs.

He's not gonna live long like that.

Personally I think somone like Larry wheels looks better with that same power lifting, bodybuilding cross work ethic and looks a lot healthier.

(having a Larry wheels idolize few days)

But opinions are like ass holes


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

GTT said:


> Watched a few of his vids, his breathing at rest is like mine with a smashed cv on loads of tren after having walked up a few flights of stairs.
> 
> He's not gonna live long like that.
> 
> ...


 He's already addressed this in video and said he knows he's shaved off years creating the physique he has

Also went on to say he has a attempts left at a pro card before he sacks it off, pursues a 400kg deadlift and then drops a load of weight for his health

EDIT - We can't compare normal humans to larry wheels.


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

swole troll said:


> EDIT - We can't compare normal humans to larry wheels.


 I'm strangely admiring when his zits pop on his big Deadlifts


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

GTT said:


> I'm strangely admiring when his zits pop on his big Deadlifts


 What's so insane about Larry wheels is he's only about 24

It'll be injury that takes him out in the end but there really hasn't been anyone else like him before


----------



## N1ke (Nov 10, 2016)

swole troll said:


> What's so insane about Larry wheels is he's only about 24
> 
> It'll be injury that takes him out in the end but there really hasn't been anyone else like him before


 He just won 2nd place, for first time competing in strong man competition


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

N1ke said:


> He just won 2nd place, for first time competing in strong man competition


 yes saw that

ive been enjoying the series with him and thor on youtube

not bad for a months prep...


----------



## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

swole troll said:


> What's so insane about Larry wheels is he's only about 24
> 
> It'll be injury that takes him out in the end but there really hasn't been anyone else like him before


 I think it's mighty impressive, how he's not exactly got the frame. he never started some blessed meso, thick structure like some giant Icelandic folk, naturally strong without training behind them. he's blessed regardless ofc, but look at him when he started, no one would of ever thought he'd of gone on to achieve the feats and reach the heights he has.


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Pickin up were Ronnie left off

YO BUDDY!


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

swole troll said:


> yes saw that
> 
> ive been enjoying the series with him and thor on youtube
> 
> not bad for a months prep...


 I always wonder when they get nose bleeds deadlifting how likely is that to be an aneurism on the brain in other circumstances?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

GTT said:


> I always wonder when they get nose bleeds deadlifting how likely is that to be an aneurism on the brain in other circumstances?


 It's vessels bursting in the nose

Often pre aggravated by ammonia salts but if bp is high enough the nose can blow regardless


----------



## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

GTT said:


> I always wonder when they get nose bleeds deadlifting how likely is that to be an aneurism on the brain in other circumstances?


 I reckon if you had a brain aneurysm so bad the blood came out your nose you'd drop down dead on the spot.


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

lewdylewd said:


> I reckon if you had a brain aneurysm so bad the blood came out your nose you'd drop down dead on the spot.


 Ha no I may have used bad English.

I meant the blood pressure that busts a nose, how high does BP need to go to put you at risk of an aneurism


----------



## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

GTT said:


> Ha no I may have used bad English.
> 
> I meant the blood pressure that busts a nose, how high does BP need to go to put you at risk of an aneurism


 Ah ok lol.

Not sure mate but I recently found I had very high BP, borderline hypertensive crisis and that was on a cruise I'd hate to see what it was when I was blasting Tren. Despite this I've never had a nose bleed even trying 1rm deadlifts etc.

So I'd guess some of these guys getting nose bleeds are above 180/110 which is what they class as "hypertensive crisis".

Then again some people will be more susceptible than others and may get nose bleeds even with healthy BP.


----------



## 75013 (Feb 22, 2017)

GTT said:


> Ha no I may have used bad English.
> 
> I meant the blood pressure that busts a nose, how high does BP need to go to put you at risk of an aneurism


 Depends on the person. People have them with even low BP. As the BP climbs, its more likely to find a weakness in a blood vessel the higher it goes. The capillaries in the nose are particularly weak and will rupture for no reason or easily with small spikes in BP. Some people like @vetran have trooper blood vessels which don't pop even when the general countenance is that of a strawberry.


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

swole troll said:


> yes saw that
> 
> ive been enjoying the series with him and thor on youtube
> 
> not bad for a months prep...


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

GTT said:


>


 He's a fu**ing animal Jesus lol.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

GTT said:


>


 fun video and the guys a beast however

ray williams competes tested (not saying natural) so doesnt have free reign to use what he wants like larry does

larry's 274.5kg x3 bench was with elbow wraps and touch and go

and his 388 x3 deadlift was touch and go also

dont get me wrong there hasnt really been anyone like larry before and at 24 years of age hes already done some amazing things but this video is kind of just a feature of these 2 lifting rather than any real comparison.

Larry wheel's only 'issue' if you can call it that is he's now torn between 3 goals; powerlifting, strongman and bodybuilding

i think he looks great for classic in bodybuilding but i dont think hes going to rock the world as he has in strength feats

strongman hes going to have to really pile on some weight to be a world contender 
mariusz was lean like larry and he was 142kg in competition and static strength was his weakness unlike larry
so if larry can gain another 20-30kg and really knuckle down with strongman (completely forget bodybuilding) he could easily be a WSM contender down the line


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Yes it goes without saying he is at the point of having to choose what to specialise in.

But what will it be!


----------



## GMO (Jul 17, 2013)

great post mate , no low test cycle in here i see .


----------



## PsychedUp (Sep 20, 2018)

GTT said:


> Yes it goes without saying he is at the point of having to choose what to specialise in.
> 
> But what will it be!


 Strongman I hope. The only one that's remotely entertaining.


----------



## green81 (Oct 24, 2016)

Dallas McCarver had 55000ng/dl of testosterone so... and he'd still be alive and well if he didn't have genetic predisposition for heart disease. Imagine what his ng/dl would be if he injected all his gear on mondays like most of us do cause there's no way he takes 45 minutes out of his day just to shoot 6+ grams of test+ whatever amount of tren he was on.

I still think you can get huge cruising on 500mg test but obviously no pro wants you to think the steroids and has a responsibility for the safety of others by not blurting out 5 grams this n that. That Jordan Peterson breathes about 200 times a minute year round am I supposed to believe he cycles tren? Dorian Yates etc just end up getting laughed at on reddit because of the stupid things they post about themselves "this is me after 6 months of training" or posting shopped photos.

What I don't understand is why didn't Dallas equally stack test & deca. At that level when they can barely wipe their arse (joke) trying to get huge I'd take 3g test 3g deca over 6g test but they probably know s**t we don't, nephrotoxicity & collagen dysplasia (basically deformed cells that end up weaker than healthy cells, it happens with all AAS and worsens with the more you take but most people are safe unless you're prone to injuries ya know genetics (hate saying that) & sleep) from deca for example


----------



## Sen (Feb 7, 2018)

dtmiscool said:


> I mean I like to be able to see some definition year round. Haven't been over 15% bf in a couple of years. I'm not bothered about abs, just more conscious on not getting fat. Prefer to be at a healthy body fat considering I'm shoving in a lot of gear. (Or what I thought was a lot before this thread haha)


 Think you missed a decimal point in between the 1&5 in 15% !!


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

Sen said:


> Think you missed a decimal point in between the 1&5 in 15% !!


  oh you.

Honestly I do put on some body fat in the colder months!! :lol:

View attachment 168021


Example of my gain before my cut last year!

2 blasts with npp left me looking like the left, my tren blast left me looking like the right. Tren just gives that sickening look.

Now im just getting fatter because I can't train properly because of this stupid rotator cuff and I don't like eating less food lol.


----------



## stewedw (Jun 15, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> oh you.
> 
> Honestly I do put on some body fat in the colder months!! :lol:
> 
> ...


 What rehab are you doing for the injury? That's 14 months since I tore mine. Damage seemed to be there's minor and the superspinatus tendon.

Got bpc 157 arriving this week but have tobe very very selective on chest and shoulders workouts and rarely sleep on the affected side.

As for the results, yeah tren is different league for the look but I bet your body composition wasn't far different. I love and hate tren lol


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

stewedw said:


> What rehab are you doing for the injury? That's 14 months since I tore mine. Damage seemed to be there's minor and the superspinatus tendon.
> 
> Got bpc 157 arriving this week but have tobe very very selective on chest and shoulders workouts and rarely sleep on the affected side.
> 
> As for the results, yeah tren is different league for the look but I bet your body composition wasn't far different. I love and hate tren lol


 Just doing some banded internal work at the moment. Have been the last week.

Lost all strength in my right shoulder. Fatigues really quick and aches immediately after an exercise. Definitely not pleasant. DB shoulder press went from something like 40kg to 28kg in a week and my bench went from 112.5kg for sets of 8-10 to 100kg for sets of 5 in a week. Knew something was seriously up.

Its not the first time it's happened. Happened preciously and tried to push through it and ended up with a rotator cuff tear and tricep and bicep tendinitis. Put me out for about 4 months.

Ive learnt my lesson since then and just focusing on rehab now and not to push it. It's been 4-5 weeks since it happened and I can now press 60kg for sets of 12 before I feel it fatigue lol (use to do 110kg for sets of 10 for a comparison).


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

dtmiscool said:


> Just doing some banded internal work at the moment. Have been the last week.
> 
> Lost all strength in my right shoulder. Fatigues really quick and aches immediately after an exercise. Definitely not pleasant. DB shoulder press went from something like 40kg to 28kg in a week and my bench went from 112.5kg for sets of 8-10 to 100kg for sets of 5 in a week. Knew something was seriously up.
> 
> ...


 I know we are diverging from my larry wheels thread.... Ahem I mean mega doses thread.

I know when I was having rotator cuff problems, I had to alter my training.

Dumbell shoulder pressing... Out

Could only do front dumbell raises, side laterals.

Also bench pressing use the safety bars in a power rack to hold the weight, the movement of lifting the weight out the original pins and putting it back puts your rotators under strain.

I could still do dumbell bench press but had to bring my elbows slightly in too.

Still skirt around problems to this day, did standing military press last week and instantly twinged it.

But Seated barbell overhead press is fine.


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

I know the feeling guys. I fuked my shoulder up before Christmas log pressing 110kg. Days after hitting 162.5kg bench press.

I had my First chest/shoulder session yesterday since the injury and I barely managed 100kg x 1.

So disheartened at the minute.


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Even Larry has rotator cuff issues from a winging scapula I've noticed from watching his YouTube a lot


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

herc said:


> I know the feeling guys. I fuked my shoulder up before Christmas log pressing 110kg. Days after hitting 162.5kg bench press.
> 
> I had my First chest/shoulder session yesterday since the injury and I barely managed 100kg x 1.
> 
> So disheartened at the minute.


 Exactly how I feel. I legit felt like crying like a little baby after losing so much strength so quickly after spending so long building it up.

Makes you wonder what even is the point. Motivation is at an all time low because of it but just gotta be patient I guess mate.


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

dtmiscool said:


> Exactly how I feel. I legit felt like crying like a little baby after losing so much strength so quickly after spending so long building it up.
> 
> Makes you wonder what even is the point. Motivation is at an all time low because of it but just gotta be patient I guess mate.


 162.5kg bench

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BrPwiAjg24e/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet%26igshid=1afhvjbu5xmyd

and here was my first session back this week


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

Not to mention I fractured my finger and tore ligaments the week after my shoulder injury grappling!! So pull say is f**ked because grip and push day is f**ked because shoulder.

I've been using straps on Pull day but I can just about get a pump with the weight I can only use!

Not sure whether to dose with tb500 or bpc157 for my shoulder.


----------



## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

dtmiscool said:


> oh you.
> 
> Honestly I do put on some body fat in the colder months!! :lol:
> 
> ...


 Fat cvnt! No wonder you blur your face out!

  :thumb


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

herc said:


> Not to mention I fractured my finger and tore ligaments the week after my shoulder injury grappling!! So pull say is f**ked because grip and push day is f**ked because shoulder.
> 
> I've been using straps on Pull day but I can just about get a pump with the weight I can only use!
> 
> Not sure whether to dose with tb500 or bpc157 for my shoulder.


 both!

they work in different ways and will both speed up your recovery provided all other variables in place

until then try a super narrow grip minimizing elbow flare on presses and stay away from side laterals and flys 
if its pain free then you can comfortably work around it whilst it heals

shoulders can be an absolute bitch, i lost about 5 months proper upper body training in 2013 because of rotator cuff inflammation that i just couldnt shake


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

swole troll said:


> both!
> 
> they work in different ways and will both speed up your recovery provided all other variables in place
> 
> ...


 And how would you run the two buddy ? Haven't used tb500 in a long time now.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

herc said:


> And how would you run the two buddy ? Haven't used tb500 in a long time now.


 I'd go 500mcg tb500 twice daily

And 250mcg bpc twice daily (pinned near the site of inflammation)

6 weeks on then 6 off I believe is the recommended usage for bpc but I havnt used any healing peptides since my rupture in 2017 so could be a bit out of touch

The tb500 can be dropped to a maintenance dose of 500mcg twice daily e3d after a month of 7mg per week usage


----------



## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

swole troll said:


> I'd go 500mcg tb500 twice daily
> 
> And 250mcg bpc twice daily (pinned near the site of inflammation)
> 
> ...


 Duck that 7mg week for four weeks. I'd rather pour that coininti hgh. £60 for 5mg lol


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

herc said:


> Duck that 7mg week for four weeks. I'd rather pour that coininti hgh. £60 for 5mg lol


 Yea he's not cheap

Bpc and gh will still speed things up


----------



## stewedw (Jun 15, 2015)

Re bpc price. I don't k

Now where you guys hsop but I just got 10mg for £22 delivered...... From the same place my pals use, simple search finds it. Usually isn't much more than that, but there was a special running.


----------



## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Purepeptidesuk are decent and 18 each or 2 for 22 on bpc. Or they were last time I used them.


----------



## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

swole troll said:


> both!
> 
> they work in different ways and will both speed up your recovery provided all other variables in place
> 
> ...


 It really is super demoralising. I've had this for about 5 weeks or so now and it just gets you down.

Went in today and did the decline bench with a narrower grip with only 60g for 3x12 and felt my shoulder fatiguing on the last set. So depressing.

The plus side is I could manage the crossover for some light sets of 15 and could actually contract my right pec for the first time in weeks. So silver lining I guess that it's slowly getting better.

Finished off with some band work for rehab and some light tricep pushdowns. I've lost what seems like a lot of progress in such a shortness period of time and body comp is changing weekly too.


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

herc said:


> 162.5kg bench
> 
> https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BrPwiAjg24e/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet%26igshid=1afhvjbu5xmyd
> 
> and here was my first session back this week


 Yeah it sucks mate, stick with it. I keep telling myself think long term but I know it's easier said than done. We're in the same boat. We'll get there in time.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

stewedw said:


> Re bpc price. I don't k
> 
> Now where you guys hsop but I just got 10mg for £22 delivered...... From the same place my pals use, simple search finds it. Usually isn't much more than that, but there was a special running.


 Nov is cheap as chips it's the tb500 cost. You'll need 7mg per week for 4wks and purepeptides is £60 for 5mg. That's 6 bottles = £300

i can pick up 200iu of ansomone hgh at that cost


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> It really is super demoralising. I've had this for about 5 weeks or so now and it just gets you down.
> 
> Went in today and did the decline bench with a narrower grip with only 60g for 3x12 and felt my shoulder fatiguing on the last set. So depressing.
> 
> ...


 injury really is the pits and even though its not much consolation because none of us want to neglect any body part but at least you can still hit back? and legs

i think i could get away with a neutral / hammer grip dumbbell bench on a decline iirc 
if you could twin that with your crossovers at least that something

worse case id just split my legs up and really smash hams one day, quads another day and then have back another

maybe a 4th day for whatever movements you can do for chest and shoulders and then just blitz arms afterward


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

swole troll said:


> injury really is the pits and even though its not much consolation because none of us want to neglect any body part but at least you can still hit back? and legs
> 
> i think i could get away with a neutral / hammer grip dumbbell bench on a decline iirc
> if you could twin that with your crossovers at least that something
> ...


 That's what I am doing at present .

Hams/calves

quads/calves

back/biceps

rehab chest and shoulders. Then heavy triceps


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

swole troll said:


> injury really is the pits and even though its not much consolation because none of us want to neglect any body part but at least you can still hit back? and legs
> 
> i think i could get away with a neutral / hammer grip dumbbell bench on a decline iirc
> if you could twin that with your crossovers at least that something
> ...


 Not a bad shout. I haven't really done anything constructive for weeks. Just bits here and there, no structure and it's been driving me to absolute boredom in the gym wondering round thinking 'well what can I do next'.

I can manage pull ups, a plate loaded row and tris and bis all pain free. Legs are obviously pain free. Side laterals and face pulls are ok. Chest is still a mixed bag.

Its only a minor tear. Just had a goal of 140kg for sets of 5 (bench) before I cut back down. That's gone down the pan now I struggle with 60kg lol.

Bah nevermind... all about the long game I suppose. Just have all my gear staring at me waiting for my next blast and it's making me even more impatient!


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

swole troll said:


> Yea he's not cheap
> 
> Bpc and gh will still speed things up


 f**k it I've ordered a few bottles of both. Can't be dealing with this shite any longer.

Was out for a night away with the wife and went to the pool. Looked in the mirror and my upper body has deflated since start of December due to this injury.

I'm like the opposite of jonny bravo - these big legs and s**t upper body lol

going to run both at 500mcg per day. Enough to run this for month then I start back on my course which I'm gonna run 800mg test per week with 200mg npp per week (joint reasons only) and some hgh low dose

has anyone order from Ankibio direct lately?? Worried about customs with this brexit s**t going on (Got tanked £80 customs on trainers from USA last month)


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## maccertimur (Jul 8, 2018)

herc said:


> f**k it I've ordered a few bottles of both. Can't be dealing with this shite any longer.
> 
> Was out for a night away with the wife and went to the pool. Looked in the mirror and my upper body has deflated since start of December due to this injury.
> 
> ...


 You have to order in bulk from them, that is the only way .

As I remember, it is either minimum of 5 or 10.


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

maccertimur said:


> You have to order in bulk from them, that is the only way .
> 
> As I remember, it is either minimum of 5 or 10.


 I know I've order plenty times I'm more concerned if anyone has ordered lately and managed to get it through customs with what going on with brexit and s**t

I emailed Nancy and there was a promo goin g for January 15% free when you order. But talked myself out of it wish I didn't now as I'm gonna pick up a few hundred iu


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

herc said:


> f**k it I've ordered a few bottles of both. Can't be dealing with this shite any longer.
> 
> Was out for a night away with the wife and went to the pool. Looked in the mirror and my upper body has deflated since start of December due to this injury.
> 
> ...


 I'm sure you know but rest is still absolutely crucial mate

I'd say more so now since you're spending cash trying to speed your recovery whereas if you did it without the peptides then a set back is only time but now it's time and money!

An easy rule of thumb is if it hurts, it's causing damage even if only on a minute level it is still working against your goals of recovery


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## stewedw (Jun 15, 2015)

Top one is incorrect form for benching. It's how you hurt yourself. Oddly this isn't sore when tried it yesterday. The correct form IS sore for me due to the left rotator probably, so until the pain goes away I'm staying well clear of flat bench as incline isn't as noticeable and dumbells are fine (along with a few select machines) so enough there to allow a good chesty workout without making it worse.

Managed 60kg each side today for hammer shoulder press. That's ten days into brufen and five days into bpc 157 at 500mcg daily split in two doses. Two months ago all I could manage was 20kg on the left and couldn't do seat or standing military press. Weird eh?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

@swole troll You seen this?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Pancake' said:


> @swole troll You seen this?


 Yea saw that other day

I like Pete, he really got his head screwed on

No doubt he'll smash his 900 pull in due time and a lot healthier


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## Deltz123 (Oct 8, 2017)

Pancake' said:


> @swole troll You seen this?


 I'll check that in a minute


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## GymClassHero (Mar 23, 2015)

I've ran tren at 2g per week along with a 1g of test.


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

GymClassHero said:


> I've ran tren at 2g per week along with a 1g of test.


 Why.


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

swole troll said:


> scott is vague about this
> 
> dave palumbo asks him "i heard back in the day you use to take 50 anadrol tabs, is that true?" and scott endlessly tries to move on until he finally admits that he did
> 
> ...


 The one where the crazy Polish ****er is talking about cutting an abscess out of his own throat and then cauterizing it? :lol: :lol:


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

S_C said:


> The one where the crazy Polish ****er is talking about cutting an abscess out of his own throat and then cauterizing it? :lol: :lol:


 haha yeah thats the one

what made me laugh is theyre all pissing themselves at how ridiculous it is and hes telling it like its just every day life and looking at them confused when theyre all laughing

"i took the knife, put it on the burner, touched the abscess and fainted in the snow...." ect


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## GymClassHero (Mar 23, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> Why.


 I had the means to do it and wanted to see if anything that incredible happened


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## dtmiscool (Aug 12, 2016)

GymClassHero said:


> I had the means to do it and wanted to see if anything that incredible happened


 And the results? lol

Its not even the doses that bother me. It's the amount of pinning you'd have had to do. Such a ball ache with so much oil!

Id probably just much higher doses if I didn't need have to pin so much volume of oil lol. 1.5g-1.8g a week is plentyyyyy otherwise I turn into a pin cushion.


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## S_C (May 16, 2018)

swole troll said:


> haha yeah thats the one
> 
> what made me laugh is theyre all pissing themselves at how ridiculous it is and hes telling it like its just every day life and looking at them confused when theyre all laughing
> 
> "i took the knife, put it on the burner, touched the abscess and fainted in the snow...." ect


 Makes Bostin Lloyd sound normal on there lol. I just re-watched it and he's Russian so I guess "Only in Russia" applies here :lol:


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## 19072 (Aug 11, 2010)

GymClassHero said:


> I've ran tren at 2g per week along with a 1g of test.


 Most tren is 200mg/ml - that's 10ml week in just tren. Fook that!!

I hate shooting 150mg TRT per week never mind the above lol...


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> And the results? lol
> 
> Its not even the doses that bother me. It's the amount of pinning you'd have had to do. Such a ball ache with so much oil!
> 
> Id probably just much higher doses if I didn't need have to pin so much volume of oil lol. 1.5g-1.8g a week is plentyyyyy otherwise I turn into a pin cushion.


 I did a gram for about a month to tidy up some vials I had and as an experiment and the only thing that increased was sides (namely acid reflux)

Complete waste of time and money

For me personally I literally see no added benefit going over 400 - 500mg of tren

1g tren is just silliness imo, 2g is pants on your head bat s**t


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## GymClassHero (Mar 23, 2015)

dtmiscool said:


> And the results? lol
> 
> Its not even the doses that bother me. It's the amount of pinning you'd have had to do. Such a ball ache with so much oil!
> 
> Id probably just much higher doses if I didn't need have to pin so much volume of oil lol. 1.5g-1.8g a week is plentyyyyy otherwise I turn into a pin cushion.


 Mate the amount of injection sites I had to use just to prevent scar tissue lol...

Delts, quads, calves, pecs, lats, arse

Tbh the results were mental but I felt like utter utter shite.


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## GymClassHero (Mar 23, 2015)

herc said:


> Most tren is 200mg/ml - that's 10ml week in just tren. Fook that!!
> 
> I hate shooting 150mg TRT per week never mind the above lol...


 Read my response bove mate haha.

As @swole troll says all I really noticed were sides. I had awful headaches, insomnia, sweats in fact looking back I must've felt really ill lol.

Im now running 300 tren 300 test and getting arguably better results because I'm focusing more on eating and sleeping etc.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

herc said:


> I know I've order plenty times I'm more concerned if anyone has ordered lately and managed to get it through customs with what going on with brexit and s**t
> 
> I emailed Nancy and there was a promo goin g for January 15% free when you order. But talked myself out of it wish I didn't now as I'm gonna pick up a few hundred iu


 I just got mine through no problems


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## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

swole troll said:


> I did a gram for about a month to tidy up some vials I had and as an experiment and the only thing that increased was sides (namely acid reflux)
> 
> Complete waste of time and money
> 
> ...


 I personally noticed a difference when I went to 800mg per week on top of 1g test E.

Strength went up and I looked the best I ever have. I only really suffer acid reflux, rest of sides are tolerable for myself


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Oldnewb said:


> I personally noticed a difference when I went to 800mg per week on top of 1g test E.
> 
> Strength went up and I looked the best I ever have. I only really suffer acid reflux, rest of sides are tolerable for myself


 not doubting you mate as we are all different but you noticed a difference compared to what? have you tried 1g test and 500mg tren if so did you find it to be that much better increasing the tren by 60%?

again not saying it wouldnt work, just saying in my experience i see no real worthy benefit in going over 400-500mg for me personally

all that *significantly* increased were my sides going from 500 to 1000mg with some negligible benefit to my strength and physique

and like you i only really get acid reflux to the point of real bother

the trensomnia i can deal with, nightmares same, irritable mood i keep a handle on, the appetite suppression isnt an issue because i just dont bother bulking on tren anymore

i actually recently found out how to fix acid reflux for myself every single time so could in theory push the tren higher with 0 external concern (internally bloods would of course be f**ked) but yeah no desire to


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## Mayzini (May 18, 2016)

swole troll said:


> I did a gram for about a month to tidy up some vials I had and as an experiment and the only thing that increased was sides (namely acid reflux)
> 
> Complete waste of time and money
> 
> ...


 ill agree with you here I pushed up to 800mg of tre, having only gone to 400 previously on the previous run, I didnt see any better quality in the reuslt in my body but the mental sides went off the charge, reflux was awful. I only use Tren on a cut now as I cant eat on it so that wasnt a problem. IF I run it again which I said i wouldnt I perhaps would go to 400mg a week max but Ithink 300mg a week would do the same when cutting.


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## Oldnewb (Jul 24, 2014)

swole troll said:


> i actually recently found out how to fix acid reflux for myself every single time so could in theory push the tren higher with 0 external concern (internally bloods would of course be f**ked) but yeah no desire to


 Do tell. I just normally take an Omeprazole daily and that kills it


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Oldnewb said:


> Do tell. I just normally take an Omeprazole daily and that kills it


https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/322161-swole-trolls-guide-to-dealing-with-acid-reflux/?do=embed


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

maccertimur said:


> You have to order in bulk from them, that is the only way .
> 
> As I remember, it is either minimum of 5 or 10.


 I ordered and received 100iu


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