# BEST WAY TO BURN FAT and not muscle



## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

Want to be big but ripped...

what is the best way to burn fat without loosing muscle mass?

Optimum fat burning heart rate?

At boxing they told me run/skip for 45 mins before breakfast and you should loose fat in no time....they say that your body will be burning stored fat for energy as you body has starved during the night.

After breakfast is no good.

How much truth is in this?

Any other ideas, have no energy after a good weights session,,,,, :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:


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## FATBOY (Mar 4, 2008)

any fasted cardio is ideal .

the rest is down to training and diet keep your protien intake the same right through the diet and adjust your fats and carbs .

everyone loses some size when they diet but in the long run you will look bigger when leaner


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## big_nige (Apr 3, 2007)

i do my cardio after weights i do hitt


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## Xtrainer (Sep 4, 2008)

Fasted cardio is great, it's just hard for the first 20 minutes or so. When you've gone through the 20 minute barrier it feels pretty good TBH and you do get the usual endorphin rush before breakfast. get some BCAA's in you during or after though - just for insurance.


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## Dandy-uk (Apr 12, 2009)

u can do it after weights and before breakfast theres a statisitc that fat burning is up by about 300% more when done fasted or after weights so either are great


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## skud (May 9, 2009)

IMHO.. your not gonna gain any muscle while dieting, unless your on a cutter 6-8 weeks.

i'll go on the natural side and say that the posts previous to mine have it on the money. its not logistically possible for some people but fasted cardio is better.

i would gove about 145bpm heart rate when training for fat loss. any higher and your going into aerobic teritory and risk being catabolic if your glycogein levels arent in check.

ideally, like myself, id do some fasted cardio in the morning for 45-60 mins then again after my workout, again 45-60 mins modrerate cardio (eg, maybe 4pmh on the treadmil walking.)

make sure your diet and traing are in check to maintain your lean mass.

goodluck bro 

edit: just noticed you feel lathargeic after a w/o. try getting some isolated complex carb powder. lots of brands carry it. i'd ingest anything from 30-60g of pure carbs. that should replace your glycogein used during your workout and bring back the muscle fullness as well as give you that boost you need to get through your cardio.

hope this helps.


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

caffine works well along with keto style diets so ur body feeds off the fat for energy i have never done anything like this

just add some cardio eat clean and theres no reason to be fat


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## fattyboy (Apr 14, 2009)

Morning cardio is awesome. You have to be doing it at least 45 mins and you need to get your heart rate up so if skipping your prob looking at 100-120rep a minute. I judge what my heart rate is but how much I sweat.

I look for a light constant moisture escapism :lol:


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## bowen86 (Mar 17, 2008)

im going to try this pre breakfast cardio.

try dextrose post workout?


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## McQueen (Aug 21, 2008)

Keto diet + ECA stack + enanthate = fat loss for me.


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## bowen86 (Mar 17, 2008)

enanthate whats that mate?


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## skud (May 9, 2009)

bowen86 said:


> enanthate whats that mate?


 testosterone enanthate. long estered testosterone.

dextrose post workout will replenish lost glycogen.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

McQueen said:


> Keto diet + ECA stack + enanthate = fat loss for me.


That sounds like what I am doing.

Only problem is, i seem to have hit a wall.

I'm doing CKD, Yohimbe before my fasted pre-breakfast cardio, ECA 5 hours later, then again 4 hours after that.

2ml Enanthate every 10 days.

I was on 2200 cals last week, did 7 low intensity cardio sessions, whole body over Mon-Tue. Depletion workout Friday evening. And yet gained weight, wouldn't be too bad if caliper measurments were down, but they were not.

I'm hoping it's a water thing. Don't think I drank enough during the Saturday carb up.

I am 24 hour carb ups, and can now get back in keto within 24 hours of the carb up.

Gonna try oatmeal and egg whites only this weekend on carb up, with about 5 litres of water, see how that goes


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## Gerry_bhoy (Dec 25, 2008)

So you should be looking to do low intensity cardio for 45-60 mins fasted, and then after weights? Or a higher intensity for a shorter period?

Seems to be mixed opinions.


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

You could do either or both depends really how much energy you have after weights and what your preference is imo.


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## Gerry_bhoy (Dec 25, 2008)

squalllion1uk said:


> You could do either or both depends really how much energy you have after weights and what your preference is imo.


To be honest, Id probably rather run a decent pace for 20 mins before breakfast.

Then after weights 45 mins at 5mph.

Sound okay?


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## diamondsven (May 12, 2009)

HOw often should you be taking an ECA for effective fat loss?


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

AM cardio on a empty stomach at a fast walk pace. You could take some fat loss aids like fatburners, stimulants etc will help.


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

diamondsven said:


> HOw often should you be taking an ECA for effective fat loss?


1-2 tabs every morning


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## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

i do 20-30 mins slow fasted run for 2.5 miles before breakfast

and then 20-30 minutes 3 mile run after weights and my fat percentage has dropped 4% in 3 weeks


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## Ash91 (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm going to start & run 1 hour before breakfast also taking a T5 (eca capsule). Then in the afternoon at the gym take another T5 then do weights then some cardio after.


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## bowen86 (Mar 17, 2008)

Ash91 said:


> I'm going to start & run 1 hour before breakfast also taking a T5 (eca capsule). Then in the afternoon at the gym take another T5 then do weights then some cardio after.


sounds good to me.


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

Ash91 said:


> I'm going to start & run 1 hour before breakfast also taking a T5 (eca capsule). Then in the afternoon at the gym take another T5 then do weights then some cardio after.


Sounds good Ash but i would not go all out with the amount of cardio you are proposing 40 mins after training is enough if your diet good for now,then when loss starts to slow introduce AM cardio 30/40 mins and then if you want to go more mental increase the length of time for both cardio sessions,but ideally you should not need to be that drastic if you adjust your calories week by week


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## Mr Brown (Mar 20, 2007)

My weight loss has started to slow and i've been putting off am cardio but know i have to get involved. 30 mins fast walking and slow joggin will help me along i hope


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

Yep its time for the AM cardio,30 mins 4/5 mornings a week will do to start


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

My Training is as follows:

Sunday AM 1 hour low intensity, this depletes the liver glycogen after carb up and will get me into ketosis quicker. I usually achieve Ketosis by sunday evening after finishing carbs saturday night.

No cardio Monday as this is Leg day. Monday Evening Quads, Hams, Calves, Chest

Tuesday AM Fasted Cardio. 20 Mins low intensity bike, 20 Mins low intensity step, and 10 mins ab roller.

Tuesday Evening. Back, Shoulders, Bis, Tris

Wednesday AM as Tuesday

Wednesday Evening 50 Mins Low intensity Cardio

Thursday - As wednesday

Friday AM As Tue, Wed, Thu

Friday Evening Depletion Workout. 4 Circuits, 11 exercises per circuit, 15 reps per exercise. Covering every muscle group.

Friday Evening to Saturday Evening - No training, carb up!

I don't know what type of weight training you guys are doing, but I am personally fried after my Monday and Tuesday sessions, couldn't do cardio if I wanted. 90 minutes of all out intense weights is enough for me, but them I am 38 LOL

I don't do any cardio above about 70% ve max. As this will recruit the type IIa and possible Type IIb muscle fibres, and if you do this the fibres will behave in a more aerobic manner their potential for growth is reduced. You want the mitocondria in the type I fibres to burn the FFA's. I know this method only burns fat for the duration of the exercise, and higher intensities cause a greater overall metabolism increase and fat burning post exercise, but as a bodybuilder IMO it is detrimental to muscle size and growth to risk the higher intensity cardio type training.


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## poacher (Dec 20, 2008)

Your body will not burn any fat until youve done 20 mins exercise


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## The Bam (Dec 4, 2007)

Mattchew100 said:


> i do 20-30 mins slow fasted run for 2.5 miles before breakfast
> 
> and then 20-30 minutes 3 mile run after weights and my fat percentage has dropped 4% in 3 weeks


Nice goin mate ! :thumb:

what about your muscle mate you maintained the majority of it ?


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## The Bam (Dec 4, 2007)

poacher said:


> Your body will not burn any fat until youve done 20 mins exercise


Where have you herd this mate ? :confused1:

Different for everyone and various body types on an average it will take your body around the 7 minute mark before it begins to us adipose tissue.

Hope this helps :thumb:


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

poacher said:


> Your body will not burn any fat until youve done 20 mins exercise


I agree under normal circumstances. But what about when you are already in a state of Ketosis, and your muscle and liver glycogen are depleted, and you have fasted overnight?????

IMO, under the above circumstances, it would be quicker than 20 mins, especially with 1g of L-Carnitine, 20mg of Yohimbine, and 200mg Caffeine. LOL


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## Jake H (Oct 31, 2008)

cardio on a morning for 45 mins would do u mate and its free ( running)


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

I'm about ready for my eggs after 45 mins of fasted cardio. I do find I am very dry in the mouth first thing tho


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

poacher said:


> Your body will not burn any fat until youve done 20 mins exercise


Fat is the preferred fuel source at rest in a fasted state.

J


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## KINGKONG24 (Mar 27, 2009)

Cheers guys!!!!!


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## Nish12 (Mar 14, 2009)

wouldnt cardio before brkfast burn muscle? what i do HIIT cardio for abt 25 mins before eating?


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

not if done low intensity


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

IIRC protein use is fairly proportional to availability.

J


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## alabbadi (Oct 11, 2008)

Xtrainer said:


> Fasted cardio is great, it's just hard for the first 20 minutes or so. When you've gone through the 20 minute barrier it feels pretty good TBH and you do get the usual endorphin rush before breakfast. get some BCAA's in you during or after though - just for insurance.


I am not with those who say cardio on an empty burns fat, after being in bed practicly fasting for 6 to 8 hours and losing muscles your body is craving for energy to replenish your stores back, the last thing you want to do is go another 2 hours and do a strenious excercise.

below is an article i copied from a bodybuilding website that shed more light on this matter. i hope it helps

*At what time of the day should I do cardio?*

Anytime you feel you have the highest amount of intensity to do it, after at least your first meal of the day, and that insulin is settled down a bit (this is done by not eating a high carb meal before the workout and that you've waited at least an hour after eating to do it.) The reason why you don't want so much insulin in your bloodstream while your working out is because insulin prevents GH from being secreted.

Most people will say first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is the best time to do cardio, reason being is because your body is short on glycogen supply and will take only fat for fuel for the workout. This is nonsense. The point of doing cardio is alterating your internal hormonal environment that increases your metabolism, not burning fat during the workout. There are several important reasons why you should not do cardio first thing in the morning. One, you are more prone to injury, you just woke up from a 6+ hours of sleeping, your body needs warming up before doing intense exercise. Two, your intensity will be decreased, which is extremely important for a good hormonal excreting cardio workout. Three, when you wake up in the morning the hormone cortisol is raised which is the "main" catabolic hormone, which goes away after eating breakfast. Breakfast jumpstarts your metabolism for the day, skipping breakfast and doing cardio instead raises catabolic hormones even more and slows your metabolism, which is a good formula for losing muscle and gaining fat!

regards


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

> and that insulin is settled down a bit (this is done by not eating a high carb meal before the workout and that you've waited at least an hour after eating to do it.) The reason why you don't want so much insulin in your bloodstream while your working out is because insulin prevents GH from being secreted.


I agree with not having elevated insulin levels when doing cardio, although I believe that it could need more than an hour between the last meal and the workout (depending on the meal of course).

I disagree with the reason of insulin/GH. I believe the main reason you want insulin levels to be low is that insulin rapidly shuts down fat oxidation (via a thing called PDE3). The body's preferred fuel to burn is fat when at rest, however a small rise in insulin quickly shuts this down.

That said, as long as insulin levels are not elevated there should not be a problem, whether this is a few hours in the afternoon without a meal, or whether it be first thing in the morning.

J


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## alabbadi (Oct 11, 2008)

I think it all depends on the individual and the amount of fat to burn, if for instance someone has 20 to 30lb excess fat to burn it might be useful to not eat in the morning and do some cardio however for the person just wanting to cut up and lose a few pounds it might not work.

in the end we are all built different and our metablic rate will differ. the best way to judge would be to give it a go for a week or two and monitor the results, if it works then it doesn't matter what the experts say

regards


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