# Insulin cycles



## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Ok I want your guys help for once.

It's something I have never really researched heavily, in the future I may consider an insulin cycle with test and possibly gh if I can afford it.

So questions are....

1. What should the insulin cycle look like?

2. Do I need to manipulate my diet to control blood sugar levels?

3. Anything else I need to know?


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## WallsOfJericho (Apr 4, 2009)

I would start off taking 5iu post workout, 1 iu = 10g of carbs, then work back, post workout, pre workout, breakfast, get a blood glucose monitor and dont inject 4 hours before bed, have some lucozades spare


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

WallsOfJericho said:


> I would start off taking 5iu post workout, 1 iu = 10g of carbs, then work back, post workout, pre workout, breakfast, get a blood glucose monitor and dont inject 4 hours before bed, have some lucozades spare


When you say work back, do you mean week 1 post

Week 2 pre

Week 3 breakfast

?????

Do you only run on workout days?


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## WallsOfJericho (Apr 4, 2009)

yep then you can up dose when you feel ready, im diabetic so i inject all day everyday


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

WallsOfJericho said:


> yep then you can up dose when you feel ready, im diabetic so i inject all day everyday


Would you just do 3 weeks on 3 weeks off then? Or continue on and on etc.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

So 3 weeks on 3 weeks off?

Also does it come as a liquid? I can see you can buy insulin pens


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

And also what do people do if they run insulin but want to minimise fat gains?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

WhySoSerious said:


> And also what do people do if they run insulin but want to minimise fat gains?


Some run DNP with it


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Some run DNP with it


I really really don't want to deal with DNP if I'm honest. I could t3 and clen it, plus I have plenty of peptides and about 50ius of gh left


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

WhySoSerious said:


> I really really don't want to deal with DNP if I'm honest. I could t3 and clen it, plus I have plenty of peptides and about 50ius of gh left


I don't blame you mate! Horrible stuff, works a treat though! Just finished my second run with it, planned a 4 week cycle, lasted 2!!!! Speaks for itself! :lol:

Sorry can't offer much advice on slin as I too haven't read enough into it, I'm far from even being ready to think about using it!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

WhySoSerious said:


> I really really don't want to deal with DNP if I'm honest. I could t3 and clen it, plus I have plenty of peptides and about 50ius of gh left


http://www.teambiohazard.co.uk/articles/paulborreson/bigstack.html

DNP is REALLY the ONLY way to keep fat gain down with 'slin; it feels much different when done with 'slin.


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

Even running a low dose like 200mg eod will help...plus you will hardly notice the sides at that level.

You could do.... GHRP 2 + Mod-grf 100mcg of each....45mins pre workout..wait 15mins jab 5-10iu fast acting slin - have a shake with your fast acting carb requirements plus either eaa's and leucine or like 10-20g pepto pro and citrulline malate and drink half about 10mins after jab then sip on rest during your workout.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

J.Smith said:


> Even running a low dose like 200mg eod will help...plus you will hardly notice the sides at that level.
> 
> You could do.... GHRP 2 + Mod-grf 100mcg of each....45mins pre workout..wait 15mins jab 5-10iu fast acting slin - have a shake with your fast acting carb requirements plus either eaa's and leucine or like 10-20g pepto pro and citrulline malate and drink half about 10mins after jab then sip on rest during your workout.


Could consider dnp at a low dose but I don't think I have access to DNP from my source. I'll have to check.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

In your guys opinions would t3 and peptides be enough to at least stop gaining fat whilst on insulin? I've quite a bit of experience with both so would be good for me to run just one new thing to me rather than 2 if it's an option


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Personally i would recomend to start with just shooting slin - starting with 6iu then upto about 10iu after your workout rather than diving into a full insulin cycle

get a feel for how it makes you feel, muscles feel etc

then think about going a bit more hardcore with it. afterwards


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

I have heard long acting is better and safer to do.

Have used novorapid but didn't rate it


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

GTT said:


> Personally i would recomend to start with just shooting slin - starting with 6iu then upto about 10iu after your workout rather than diving into a full insulin cycle
> 
> get a feel for how it makes you feel, muscles feel etc
> 
> then think about going a bit more hardcore with it. afterwards


Well I was gonna go with 5ius post work out for the first week at least anyway and then up it.

Has anyone any experience with roughly how much extra bodyfat we are looking at after a 4 week cycle. Just as an idea roughly


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## Dbol_dan (Sep 25, 2011)

Craig660 said:


> I have heard long acting is better and safer to do.
> 
> Have used novorapid but didn't rate it


Long acting insulin can last 12 hours in your system. Not something you want active whilst you're asleep. Most people I know who use stick with novorapid (insulin asparte) or humalog (insulin lispro).


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

Yep but there is no spikes with long and if you keep your diet ok it shouldn't be a problem


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## Dbol_dan (Sep 25, 2011)

Craig660 said:


> Yep but there is no spikes with long and if you keep your diet ok it shouldn't be a problem


But isn't the sudden spike the desired effect?


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2012)

> Long acting insulin can last 12 hours in your system.


see this thread; http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/muscle-research-peptides/156770-lantus-pen.html

active life is up to 26hours, depends on various factors


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

WhySoSerious said:


> Well I was gonna go with 5ius post work out for the first week at least anyway and then up it.
> 
> Has anyone any experience with roughly how much extra bodyfat we are looking at after a 4 week cycle. Just as an idea roughly


Post workout only i take 10iu, 15 mins later drop a big protein,maltro/dextro drink

bout 40 mins alter have somthing hearty to eat

Ive never noticed any fat gain doing it like that- just full muscles

if you are doing a full cycle with it though -- ie 3 times a day on workout days, i doubt the fat gain will be that dramatic as long as your diets clean, you are on aas and dropping a few T3s

just wean yourself into it and see how you get on -- just make sure you are used to the signs of a big fat hypo - dizzy, sweating, unwell feeling - mega sugar crave


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Ok so this is what the planned cycle would look like

Slin

Week 1: 5ius post work followed by 50g dextrose with 20g protein

Week 2: 5ius post work out and 5ius breakfast with above shake

Week3: 5iu post, 5iu pre and 5iu breakfast with above shake

Week 4: same as above

Cycle this 4 weeks on/4 weeks off for 3 cycles

Test

Week 1 - 20: test at 1g a week

Other

Week 1 - 24 ghrp and mod grf 100mcg of each 3 times daily

Cycling 4 weeks on/off with slin: t3 at 100mcg ed

Week 1 - 24: t4 at 200mcg ed

2 weeks on/ 2weeks off: clen at 120mcg ed

Ok and a little background, I'm currently sitting at an average bf, not too lean and not too fat. Abs are clearly visible.

I bike to work and the gym so in total with cardio at gym I will be doing about 1hr 30mins cardio a day.

Now for questions:

1. Do you think the cardio and t3/clen/peptides will be enough to stop me putting on much excess body fat?

2. Low gi foods should be taken after shot of slin but how long after.

3. I will look at purchasing a bg monitor, how often should I be testing myself?

4. How does this cycle look?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Bump


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

I bet dnp and slin together makes for some interesting trips to the toilet


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Anyone got some input?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

If this is your first time with Slin, why not use slow slin e.g. Lantus??


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> If this is your first time with Slin, why not use slow slin e.g. Lantus??


Yeah first time, I've been advised by a few and also read a thread by ausbuilts to avoid slow slin


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

will running dnp with slin not effect the carbs you need to intake for your slin since dnp burns the carbs off while slin is trying to store them?????


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stone14 said:


> will running dnp with slin not effect the carbs you need to intake for your slin since dnp burns the carbs off while slin is trying to store them?????


I dunno but i'm not running it anyway


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

WhySoSerious said:


> Yeah first time, I've been advised by a few and also read a thread by ausbuilts to avoid slow slin


What was stated please?

I am piling on weight at the moment using the slow slin and 1.5g Test. Up 8lbs in a week, water blah blah.......I am using up to 90ius a day though. Will report back in a three weeks when I finish the slin.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

90ius :scared: lol


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> What was stated please?
> 
> I am piling on weight at the moment using the slow slin and 1.5g Test. Up 8lbs in a week, water blah blah.......I am using up to 90ius a day though. Will report back in a three weeks when I finish the slin.


I don't think any solid reason was stated tbh, just harder to manage BG and I think they said something about BG level during the evening


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

i think if you get it wrong with fast acting then youve only got an hour or 2 till it passes, if you get it wrong with long acting then your going to have to put up with if all day, imo best get used to fast acting before you venture to long acting.

plus most say start at 5iu fast acting but for me 3iu was plenty (wasnt plewnty to make me grow but tolarance wise i had to start there), i must have a low tolarance to slin, and the 1g carbs per 1iu was far to low for me. i never ran it long enough to build my tolarance upto a decent level, will do next time i use it probably this winter slin aas and dnp :thumbup1:

after my weight gain shake pwo with 50g carb 40g protein, i was still needing a mouthful of lucozade every 15mins or the tiredness fuzzy feeling was kicking in, but as the days went on it went down to a drink every 30-40mins, then i was going to up the dose, but just came off it.

mouthfuls of lucozade every 15mins was about 1 pint by the time the active period of my novorapid had past which went down to about 200ml over a few days, then had my meal. i think if i give it a proper run i can get my iu's to a decent level and manage better other than using lucozade.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stone14 said:


> i think if you get it wrong with fast acting then youve only got an hour or 2 till it passes, if you get it wrong with long acting then your going to have to put up with if all day, imo best get used to fast acting before you venture to long acting.
> 
> plus most say start at 5iu fast acting but for me 3iu was plenty (wasnt plewnty to make me grow but tolarance wise i had to start there), i must have a low tolarance to slin, and the 1g carbs per 1iu was far to low for me. i never ran it long enough to build my tolarance upto a decent level, will do next time i use it probably this winter slin aas and dnp :thumbup1:
> 
> after my weight gain shake pwo with 50g carb 40g protein, i was still needing a mouthful of lucozade every 15mins or the tiredness fuzzy feeling was kicking in, but as the days went on it went down to a drink every 30-40mins, then i was going to up the dose, but just came off it.


shouldnt it be 10g per 1ius?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

yes sorry i ment 10g per iu was too low for me lol


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

its ok to take the 10g carb per 1iu as a guide line, im sure once i built my tolarance up i would need less carbs, i must be sensitive to slin, iv been checkd and not diabetic, but im shaking and rattling if i have nothing to eat all day by 4pm and have a big sweet tooth, dont no if that would have anything to do with it tho lol.....


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stone14 said:


> its ok to take the 10g carb per 1iu as a guide line, im sure once i built my tolarance up i would need less carbs, i must be sensitive to slin, iv been checkd and not diabetic, but im shaking and rattling if i have nothing to eat all day by 4pm and have a big sweet tooth, dont no if that would have anything to do with it tho lol.....


Are you able to answer any of the questions I asked mate?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

WhySoSerious said:


> Now for questions:
> 
> 1. Do you think the cardio and t3/clen/peptides will be enough to stop me putting on much excess body fat?
> 
> ...


im no expert on slin, just going off what i no myself atm.

1) not sure tbh, aust says only dnp will be effective at holding the fat down, you could cycle slin 4weeks/ low dose dnp 4weeks?? other than that i cant comment on the t3/clen as iv not used it with slin to give an accurate comment mate.

2) till the active time of the slin has warn off, i prefer to have my carbs etc asap after workout then slin shot 1hr pwo to give myself achance to absorb some of it before the slin kicks in to be on the safe side, jmo.

3) at 1st as much as possible realy maybe every 5mins so you no exactly whats going on in your body, then as the days go on and your more confident in your slin routine you can test less and less to say every 15-30mins once your comfortable at doing so. if you get your dose up to a max level that suits you and your routine is the same nutes wise etc, then further down the line you prob wont need to test at all, or maybe just a couple of times so you no were your BG is at.....

4) cycle looks fine to me, the slin use in the weeks you have stated are fine for testing the waters, once you no your fine off x3 use per day then every cycle after then imo just stick to x3 per day, no need to have week1 1shot week2 2shots etc etc if you no you can handle it ok then go for it, you want to use as much slin as is comfortable for you to control BG.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

also on the topic of insulin and diabetes. with the use of slin, what would cause someone to get diabetes from this?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

i think its a myth of highly unlikely it will cause permanant damage unless you completly abuse it, iv seen many use slin continuosly now, just go off your doses they will gradually creep up as your tolorance increases 10iux3 ed is enough imo if you find you can go over more then come off imo to get your tolorance back down.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

ok i'm almost there with this, the only other bit i can't find some solid information on is do you inject everyday or just on training days?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

either mate, imo ed is best cos your still recovering on the days you dont train


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stone14 said:


> either mate, imo ed is best cos your still recovering on the days you dont train


sweet sounds good, im just gonna go with 5ius post workout for now and see how i get on with that so on rest days maybe just at breakfast


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## redman (Feb 2, 2008)

There is one and only one governing factor that will dictate the degree (if any) of fat gain on slin. That is insulin sensitivity/nutrient partitioning.

In very basic laymen's terms..... If you are sensitive to insulin and have good nutrient partitioning then the use of insulin maybe beneficial to shuttle nutrients to where you want then... Muscle.

If your not then you will likely just end up a bigger smoother version of your self..

How do you know..... Well you don't 100%.

1) Best bet is to perform a glucose tolerance test, but thats not going to happen on a regular basis.

2) Fasting blood glucose levels are a good indicator and can show the onset on insulin resistance.

3) Common sence, are you fully carbed up toward the back end of a mass gaining phase..... If so whats the point? IMO you will gain more fat than lean tissue. However if your coming off a diet and wish to use insulin as a tool to recarb quicker or too a greater degree then go ahead... Think about why.....

IMO insulin is a excellent tool but must be used in the correct way, in conjunction with pulseative GH, under the right dietary circumstances then it can bring amazing synergistic results. Randomly used without rhyme or reason and you could well end up.... no better off with some visceral fat too boot

As for DNP with slin, I am not convinced, I know insulin resistance is massive on DNP, 10iu of humalog was no problem with zero carbs. I am also a strong believer that DNP needs a proper DNP recovery. Like a PCT for DNP.

This requires a recovery of the thyroid and liver enzymes IMO. This can be achieved through correct pulsation of GH through a GHRH+GHRP in conjunction with a T3 replacement dose. After the removal of the T3 dose the GHRH+GHRP should be continued, I cannot be definitive on time frames as of yet as my research is not fully complete.

One thing I can be definitive on is post DNP there is an up-regulation of Reverse T3 and the above protocol corrects the undesirable situation.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Another question: post work out is fine, I will have 50g dextrose 40g protein whey bike home then eat low gi carb source with white meat.

BUT for pre work out do I need to be eating low gi carb source before training? Eg. Same shake and meal an then train?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

WhySoSerious said:


> Another question: post work out is fine, I will have 50g dextrose 40g protein whey bike home then eat low gi carb source with white meat.
> 
> BUT for pre work out do I need to be eating low gi carb source before training? Eg. Same shake and meal an then train?


you could do, you could always do a test before starting slin to see what your BG level is pwo from having fast carbs pre wo and during, slow carbs pre wo and a mix of slow carbs pre wo with fast carbs during wo. to see what levels you end up with pwo to give you the best idea of how the diffrent GI's effect you pwo.

but its prob not nessasary, alsong as your bg is fine during the slins active time......


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

With the pre work out injection, how long should that be before workout?

should i aim to have the slin drop out before I take the post work out jab, so 3-4 hours before post workout jab which would be 2-3 hours before training?


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## Uk_mb (Feb 18, 2011)

hi bud . old thread i no , just wondering did u start running slin and what do u think? also whats your prolocol.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

bump


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Bump


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## MusclePlz (Mar 28, 2010)

If you think you are gaining fat from insulin, don't take DNP or anything to try and counteract it, that's just silly. You just need to take less insulin and have less carbs.

Insulin will store the glucose from your blood into your muscles, and if it's not burnt, it will get stored as fat. So if you are necking high carb drinks and taking insulin to get it all into your muscles and you are gaining fat, then you are having too many carbs and taking too much insulin as you aren't doing enough to burn it off. Only ways to stop this is to burn it off or eat less and take less slin.

~ Type 1 diabetic for 3 and a half years on Novo/Levemir

P.S Levemir is supposed to last for 24 hours but only lasts around 20 hours in the body (as told by my diabetologist)


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## huge monguss (Apr 5, 2011)

Interesting post was also looking at running slin with one of my cycles but will do a lot more research first


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Can anyone answer my last question?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

i dont no about pre wo, get pre wo slin wrong and you will prob be on your back in the gym...


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## MusclePlz (Mar 28, 2010)

WhySoSerious said:


> With the pre work out injection, how long should that be before workout?
> 
> should i aim to have the slin drop out before I take the post work out jab, so 3-4 hours before post workout jab which would be 2-3 hours before training?


Not sure exactly what you're asking, but novorapid insulin works in about 5-10mins, so I would take your pre and post workout shake the same time as your insulin...

What do you mean by slin drop out?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

John506 said:


> Not sure exactly what you're asking, but novorapid insulin works in about 5-10mins, so I would take your pre and post workout shake the same time as your insulin...
> 
> What do you mean by slin drop out?


I mean as in the half life of the slin, so if it's in your system for 3 hours is it bad to have another shot of slin within that time.

As I would be doing this if I had first shot just before workout and next after workout


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## MusclePlz (Mar 28, 2010)

No, fast acting insulin just goes on what you eat, there is no half life as such. For example, if you take 10ui of insulin, you need to eat appx 100g of carbs to cover that amount of insulin. For a non diabetic experimenting I wouldn't take anymore than 5ui and I would wait at least 3 hours inbetween doses. Can't tell you how important it is to have a good stock of Lucozade aswell with you at all times while you are on insulin, nothing worse than going hypo and not having any sugar, I know this first hand and nearly went into a coma, my GF phoned an ambulance as I was out of it, not a nice experience!


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

John506 said:


> No, fast acting insulin just goes on what you eat, there is no half life as such. For example, if you take 10ui of insulin, you need to eat appx 100g of carbs to cover that amount of insulin. For a non diabetic experimenting I wouldn't take anymore than 5ui and I would wait at least 3 hours inbetween doses. Can't tell you how important it is to have a good stock of Lucozade aswell with you at all times while you are on insulin, nothing worse than going hypo and not having any sugar, I know this first hand and nearly went into a coma, my GF phoned an ambulance as I was out of it, not a nice experience!


So say for example if I train at 17:30 I will finish at 18:30 and take my pwo slin then so my pre workout would need to be taken around 15:30 based on you saying I should wait 3 hours??

I'm confused as u say it doesn't matter and then say you should wait 3 hours between doses??


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## MusclePlz (Mar 28, 2010)

No mate I didn't say it doesn't matter I just said it doesn't have a half life as such.

I say wait 3 hours because lets say you take 5ui and eat 50g carbs. You may have the 50g carbs floating around in your blood, your pancreas is producing insulin as it should, and your BG is in check (between 4.0 and 7.0, I hope you have a meter btw).. Once your body has moved the glucose out of your blood and into your muscles (which could take an hour or so) you will then know if your insulin dose is correct because you will go hypo if you needed more than 50g. I'm sorry I'm not the best at explaining things lol.

If you take insulin, and eat carbs, you will go hypo when your body has processed all the carbs (if you took too much) in your stomach, because the insulin will still be taking the glucose from your blood, yet you have no carbs in your stomach. It could take 2 hours for your body to digest all the carbs and to take the glucose from your blood into the muscle, thats why I say wait 3 hours.

You don't want to take too much insulin and not know you have taken to much, because you may not know for an hour or so until you have burnt your carbs or your body's own insulin has taken the sugar out of your blood. So if you don't wait 3 hours, and you take insulin 1 hour later, you may be taking too much TWICE, which could have devastating effects to a non diabetic who isn't used to hypos.

I hope I haven't made it too hard to understand, after all, I did fail my English at school miserably haha 

3 hours is just my personal advice, from a diabetics point of view on how to minimize the risks of going hypo, there may be people on here that disagree, it's just my 2 cents tho mate


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

From what I've read if you are following a pre workout slin protocol a post workout one is not needed. As your muscles will already be saturated and full of glycogen from the 3 shakes you would have drunk from the time of your shot until your post without shake. Also I think the active life of even the fastest slin is 4 hours and jabbing within that time leaves you more susceptible to going hypo.

That's all from my reading though which is not exhaustive but is extensive.


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

Quick question, so if you were to just a beginner and play it safe.

7-8iu Humalog Post workout, 7pm, I could get 150-200g carbs down. Clean. Have lucozades on hand then there should be no issues what so ever.

Would 7-8IU ED, Once per day, Post workout be enough to see results?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Quick question, so if you were to just a beginner and play it safe.
> 
> 7-8iu Humalog Post workout, 7pm, I could get 150-200g carbs down. Clean. Have lucozades on hand then there should be no issues what so ever.
> 
> Would 7-8IU ED, Once per day, Post workout be enough to see results?


i dont think you need to go as high as that at first, perhaps just 5ius and you can't say there will be no complications what so ever, this is insulin you are messing with after all


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> i dont think you need to go as high as that at first, perhaps just 5ius and you can't say there will be no complications what so ever, this is insulin you are messing with after all


It's tricky, because It's such a big step up in my eyes. I'm looking to compete next year so it's definitely something I'm considering, but again, it's just a hobby, do I really want to put myself at that risk.. My source also compete's, he's 46 and he still doesn't use slin, he's qualified for Nationals soon. so it's not always a necessity.

Just trying to work out how safe it is, even at a low dose.

Even with 5IU's, consuming 150g simple carbs directly afterwards, with lucozade on hand and you say there could be complications... How so? could you enlighten me a little mate if possible. Really trying to get the info I need, and struggling.


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## tcastle (May 26, 2011)

First of all, everyone can respond differently to any substance, including insulin.

So it's never a bad idea to start on the safe side with 5iu. Some people are very responsive or can't even stand exogenous insulin and start to puke or go hypo on the smallest amount. I've read about such couple cases but it is very rare. Still starting low is a good advise. Maybe you don't even need to up the dosage if you respond fine to such a low dose.

Insulin is a lethal substance, IMO however if you've researched enough and know what to do than insulin is a very good substance with practically no side effects i know of. Still, people often do forget how lethal insulin is so you always need to stay aware what you're dealing with. e.g. don't shoot up before sled dragging or if you're going to do 20 rep squats, that's one advice I can give you from my own experience.

BTW, it is hard to die from insulin as long as somebody knows and you're visited frequently or your not driving a car or doing an activity where falling asleep may result in death or injury. I've read about people trying to commit suicide with 300 IU or more and they even failed because people found them in time.

edit: although it isn't always fatal, it can result in severe brain damage if not diagnosed early after going hypo and passing out.


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

tcastle said:


> First of all, everyone can respond differently to any substance, including insulin.
> 
> So it's never a bad idea to start on the safe side with 5iu. Some people are very responsive or can't even stand exogenous insulin and start to puke or go hypo on the smallest amount. I've read about such couple cases but it is very rare. Still starting low is a good advise. Maybe you don't even need to up the dosage if you respond fine to such a low dose.
> 
> ...


Decent advice mate really appreciate that. I'd prefer long lasting, But I train at 5:30pm and would need to shoot after that around 7-7:15pm, I sleep at 9:30-10pm and heard sleeping after shooting, even with the right precautions and enough carbs is dangerous...

Is there anybody that I can possibly ask for 1 to 1 advice via PM? Would massively appreciate the advice and may seriously help me from making a possibly dangerous error in the future.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Decent advice mate really appreciate that. I'd prefer long lasting, But I train at 5:30pm and would need to shoot after that around 7-7:15pm, I sleep at 9:30-10pm and heard sleeping after shooting, even with the right precautions and enough carbs is dangerous...
> 
> Is there anybody that I can possibly ask for 1 to 1 advice via PM? Would massively appreciate the advice and may seriously help me from making a possibly dangerous error in the future.


why do you prefer long over short acting?


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> why do you prefer long over short acting?


Well I can't say I do.. I suppose it's the fact I only need to focus my thoughts towards it once a day and make sure at that one point in the day I get it done right, than having to do it 3 times. As you probably know, I bet making sure the meals are ready in place and everything sorted at the right times isn't easy, say if you suddenly have to dash off before having time to carb up... or fitting the jabs in whilst at work..

but if you can educate me why short is better, that'd be much appreciated, still trying to learn the ways.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Well I can't say I do.. I suppose it's the fact I only need to focus my thoughts towards it once a day and make sure at that one point in the day I get it done right, than having to do it 3 times. As you probably know, I bet making sure the meals are ready in place and everything sorted at the right times isn't easy, say if you suddenly have to dash off before having time to carb up... or fitting the jabs in whilst at work..
> 
> but if you can educate me why short is better, that'd be much appreciated, still trying to learn the ways.


you dont need to do short acting 3 times a day, if its working once a day then just once a day at what ever iu and stay with that. try starting at 5iu post workout followed by 55g dextrose, what ever amount of protein, get home and have a low fat high carb meal


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> you dont need to do short acting 3 times a day, if its working once a day then just once a day at what ever iu and stay with that. try starting at 5iu post workout followed by 55g dextrose, what ever amount of protein, get home and have a low fat high carb meal


If thats the case, why do it more than once a day? Or why have long acting esters? I spose the answer is consistency... the longer it has to work the better right, so wouldnt 1x a day, fast acting be a lot less effective..


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> If thats the case, why do it more than once a day? Or why have long acting esters? I spose the answer is consistency... the longer it has to work the better right, so wouldnt 1x a day, fast acting be a lot less effective..


because it peaks in about 15 mins so in that time your body will absorb ridiculous amounts of nutrients so you take them all in at that peroid after taking insulin. as for taking 3 x a day, then surely that would be obvious?

if you grow eating 2500 calories a day but grow more eating 3500 calories a day then you can take more to grow more


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> because it peaks in about 15 mins so in that time your body will absorb ridiculous amounts of nutrients so you take them all in at that peroid after taking insulin. as for taking 3 x a day, then surely that would be obvious?
> 
> if you grow eating 2500 calories a day but grow more eating 3500 calories a day then you can take more to grow more


That does make sense actually. I went very wrong somewhere not figuring that out LOL apologies.

Very simple really isn't it.. more absorption. So in that respect, yes, short should be better, effective quickly and spikes, in and out quickly, and per meal.

So preferably, 5iu post workout to begin with over time build up to, 5iu AM before breakfast, 5iu before lunch and 5iu before tea.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

iElite said:


> That does make sense actually. I went very wrong somewhere not figuring that out LOL apologies.
> 
> Very simple really isn't it.. more absorption. So in that respect, yes, short should be better, effective quickly and spikes, in and out quickly, and per meal.
> 
> So preferably, 5iu post workout to begin with over time build up to, 5iu AM before breakfast, 5iu before lunch and 5iu before tea.


Iirc the fastest acting slin has an active life of 5 hours so I'd not want to jab it more than once every 5 hours myself.

Paul borresson advocates every 4 hours I think. And a large long acting shot in the am.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

iElite said:


> If thats the case, why do it more than once a day? Or why have long acting esters? I spose the answer is consistency... the longer it has to work the better right, so wouldnt 1x a day, fast acting be a lot less effective..


1. There are no esters involved. It is the actual insulin analogue that dictates the activity time and release rate- in plain english none of the insulins used are the EXACT molecule of human insulin- all have slight changes to the structure:

"...A fast acting insulin analog (marketed by Novo Nordisk as "NovoLog/NovoRapid") is a man-made form of human insulin. *A single amino acid has been slightly changed in its molecular structure*. This change helps the fast-acting insulin analog absorb quickly into the bloodstream. As a result, it starts working in minutes, which allows you to take insulin and eat right away. Fast-acting insulin analogs are considered to act similar to the way insulin is released in people without diabetes mellitus."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_aspart

the long acting insulin is contained in crystals that slow the release of the insulin:

"...Insulin glargine, marketed by Sanofi-Aventis under the name Lantus, is a long-acting basal insulin analogue, given once daily to help control the blood sugar level of those with diabetes. It consists of microcrystals that slowly release insulin, giving a long duration of action of 18 to 26 hours, with a "peakless" profile (according to the Lantus package insert)."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_glargine

now that we have that sorted:

2. Why multiple dosings of short acting.

The advantage of short acting 'slin is that you can administer it at specific times, for specific purposes; such as after a meal to push more amino acids and carbs into the muscle cell, and also post workout when this is especially effective.

however, since the window of activity is about 3-4 hours, using multipe shots gives more scope for a longer anabolic window.

The PRE-Vs-POST work out debate (applies to bulking only)

The only reason to use 'slin pre-workout is to have very full muslces, for an enormous pump. Some have said that it keeps the muscles in an anabolic mode, so that less protein is broken down, however, the point of a workout is to damage the muscle, and break down protiens, so that fresh aminos are used, in a greater quantity, to build bigger muscle fibres..

I don't see this as a debate, because if you use novorapid in the morning, and afternoon, and then again after your evening weights workout, then believe, me your muscles are super full, and you have an enormous pump from the the morning and afternoon shots.

I see more of an advantage in using a shot post workout to ensure maximum nutrients to be provided to the muscle, and also the keep the body "anabolic" by being in a muscle building/nutrient storage mode (no fat burning happens in this case).

USING LONG ACTING

Now long acting does have the advantage of being released through the whole day, however just taking 30-50iu in the morning means that you need to have frequent "grazing" meals to stave of hypo if you're not a diabetic. This can be quite inconvenient, and the calories hard to monitor/control, especially if you do physical work for a job.

BUT THE PROS use it!

OK, the secret to mass? yes its AAS, and yes its "slin + GH + T3/T4 etc.... but mass comes from calories ingested. What pro's do to get the boat load of calories in, is 30-50iu of lantus in the morning as "base" that makes the eat constantly through the day, but then also use 3-4 shots of fast acting at specific points (larger meals and post workout most frequently) to take in higher "peaks" of cals/nutrients.

Have a think about this- if you use 10g carbs/1iu as the safe guide, then you need to ingest 500g of carbs through the day for the 50iu of lantus in the morning, and another 100g for each 10iu shot of fast acting, 3x day.

This would be 500g+100+100+100= 800g carbs to supply carbs for the 'slin intake. Thats 3200cals from carbs alone so far.

Now, say you're an 80kg aspiring BB, and eating 1.5g carbs per lb of bodyweight, that 1.5x (80kgx2.2)=264g of protein. Thats 1,056 cals.

Of course you cant take that much protein and carbs and not have any fats, so lets say 10% fats- 100g (rounding)= 900cals.

So there you have it, as an 80kg (176lb) BB, using 50iu of lantus in the morning, and 10iu of novorapid 3 x day, you'd need to eat 5156 cals per day.

And now without going into the nitty gritty, you know why people who use 'slin grow so much more....



WhySoSerious said:


> you dont need to do short acting 3 times a day, if its working once a day then just once a day at what ever iu and stay with that. try starting at 5iu post workout followed by 55g dextrose, what ever amount of protein, get home and have a low fat high carb meal


well if you read the above, 'slin works well, but it needs cals... so the reason so many people expect great things from 1xshot/day of 'slin, then dont get the results they hear of, is simply 1x shot per day is not adding enough cals- using your example, most people can do 3iu of novorapid in a day and not require ANY carbs (point of fact, when doing a keto diet, post carb up, 3iu of novorapid every 4 hours gets you into keto in 12 hours, but you dont pass out..), so 5iu is barely anything in terms of "extra" slin. Moreover, 5iu will only add 220 cals from carbs (and say 200 cals from 50g of protein in a shake). So 440cals/day extra- unless the person was actually properly on their maintenance levels, this is not a huge increases in cals, and in fact most dont add "extra" food to their day, simply adding 'slin around their usual shake and evening meal, hence the lack of results.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

iElite said:


> That does make sense actually. I went very wrong somewhere not figuring that out LOL apologies.
> 
> Very simple really isn't it.. more absorption. So in that respect, yes, short should be better, effective quickly and spikes, in and out quickly, and per meal.
> 
> So preferably, 5iu post workout to begin with over time build up to, 5iu AM before breakfast, 5iu before lunch and 5iu before tea.


1iu per 10kg of bodyweight is the general rule. Using to little does nothing more than reduce your insulin senstivity for no gain.

Do 4 weeks on 'slin, then take 4 weeks off, and during this period take 1500mg of metformin/day to regain your sensitivity before your next 'slin cycle.

generally to get results, unless taking the long acting as a base, don't take the 'slin with one of your usual meals, take it to make you have an ADDITIONAL meal. eg:

have breakfast, 1-2 hours later, have 'slin shot+shake (10g carbs/iu of 'slin, 50g whey), then 1 hour later have another shake (5g carb/iu -all complex such as oats, and 50g whey), then have lunch... same in the afternoon. Last shot post workout, when you have another shake (10g carbs/iu, 50g whey) then an hour later your usual dinner (or better another shake with 5g carbs-complex per iu and 50g whey) then an hour later your usual dinner.



RowRow said:


> Iirc the fastest acting slin has an active life of 5 hours so I'd not want to jab it more than once every 5 hours myself.
> 
> Paul borresson advocates every 4 hours I think. And a large long acting shot in the am.


Yep borresson spelt it out well:

http://www.teambiohazard.co.uk/articles/paulborreson/bigstack.html


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> 1. There are no esters involved. It is the actual insulin analogue that dictates the activity time and release rate- in plain english none of the insulins used are the EXACT molecule of human insulin- all have slight changes to the structure:
> 
> "...A fast acting insulin analog (marketed by Novo Nordisk as "NovoLog/NovoRapid") is a man-made form of human insulin. *A single amino acid has been slightly changed in its molecular structure*. This change helps the fast-acting insulin analog absorb quickly into the bloodstream. As a result, it starts working in minutes, which allows you to take insulin and eat right away. Fast-acting insulin analogs are considered to act similar to the way insulin is released in people without diabetes mellitus."
> 
> ...


Hi Aus,

In response to the above bit, if you are consuming enough extra cals around the time of post workout injection though then this would surely offer good possible benefits? From my understanding of what you said it is the fact that people don't actually increase cal intake and just add a post work out shot in?


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

As always Aus, great detailed post. Few little questions.

It's massively helped my understanding on Insulin in general and how to utilize it properly 

1IU per 10kg of bodyweight being the general rule, would that mean 9IU in total over the day, or 9IU each shot (up to 3x a day) if your able to effectively maintain the caloric intake?

Also, I know the risks are often exaggerated slightly to show how dangerous certain drugs can be, is this the case with insulin.. following procedure carefully there should be no issues? Is it the case, the minor slip up and you'll have massive issues?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

WhySoSerious said:


> Hi Aus,
> 
> In response to the above bit, if you are consuming enough extra cals around the time of post workout injection though then this would surely offer good possible benefits? From my understanding of what you said it is the fact that people don't actually increase cal intake and just add a post work out shot in?


my comments are mostly calorie related- so if doing the post workout shot you need to add more cals, not make it part of the usual calorie intake. If as you say already consume extra cals post workout, it will of course help to have the 'slin shot, but the benefit is marginal as you only get 3-4hour of active time where 'slin does things like bind to SHBG and make your AAS more effective (in fact some BIG guys like to take some d-bol with every shot of novorapid as they have a similar active time of 4 hours), so more shots are better than 1... (also more cals with more shots).



iElite said:


> As always Aus, great detailed post. Few little questions.
> 
> It's massively helped my understanding on Insulin in general and how to utilize it properly
> 
> ...


Dying from insulin use is pure darwansim- you deserve to die! If you become hypo, take some sugar- can be a can of coke, can be some white bread, can be table sugar sachets you grab from a cafe or mcdonalds for free... simply put, if light headed, take sugar... keep lollies in the car/pocked/bag/gymbag you get the idea.

And be aware that 10g/iu of sugar is a conservative guide, most can get away with less carbs- but- sometimes, eg if working physically in your job, or you take 'slin PRE-workout and do legs or back, you may need more carbs...

Most of all, until you learn your body's response, a glucose meter is an essential tool.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> my comments are mostly calorie related- so if doing the post workout shot you need to add more cals, not make it part of the usual calorie intake. If as you say already consume extra cals post workout, it will of course help to have the 'slin shot, but the benefit is marginal as you only get 3-4hour of active time where 'slin does things like bind to SHBG and make your AAS more effective (in fact some BIG guys like to take some d-bol with every shot of novorapid as they have a similar active time of 4 hours), so more shots are better than 1... (also more cals with more shots).
> 
> Dying from insulin use is pure darwansim- you deserve to die! If you become hypo, take some sugar- can be a can of coke, can be some white bread, can be table sugar sachets you grab from a cafe or mcdonalds for free... simply put, if light headed, take sugar... keep lollies in the car/pocked/bag/gymbag you get the idea.
> 
> ...


I had heard about the dbol option, didn't opt for it though.

I take my t4, peps and gh all near the time of injecting slin but not my Test, I would have thought that would take time to release Im anyway?


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> my comments are mostly calorie related- so if doing the post workout shot you need to add more cals, not make it part of the usual calorie intake. If as you say already consume extra cals post workout, it will of course help to have the 'slin shot, but the benefit is marginal as you only get 3-4hour of active time where 'slin does things like bind to SHBG and make your AAS more effective (in fact some BIG guys like to take some d-bol with every shot of novorapid as they have a similar active time of 4 hours), so more shots are better than 1... (also more cals with more shots).
> 
> Dying from insulin use is pure darwansim- you deserve to die! If you become hypo, take some sugar- can be a can of coke, can be some white bread, can be table sugar sachets you grab from a cafe or mcdonalds for free... simply put, if light headed, take sugar... keep lollies in the car/pocked/bag/gymbag you get the idea.
> 
> ...


Massive thanks again aus, very very useful info. Are glucose meters hard to read / understand? I'm probably going to go for it, sounds useful, I wouldn't know what readings to look out for though.

I think i heard somewhere, 4.0-7.0 was normal. Take it post shot after carb up? again thanks for the time and input mate.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Massive thanks again aus, very very useful info. Are glucose meters hard to read / understand? I'm probably going to go for it, sounds useful, I wouldn't know what readings to look out for though.
> 
> I think i heard somewhere, 4.0-7.0 was normal. Take it post shot after carb up? again thanks for the time and input mate.


easy as anything mate, i've been checking mine every few hours, literally pop the strip in, it loads up. load the jabbing pen up, i would recoomend highest setting as it barely pierces the skin on the lower settings, squeeze out a a good drop of blood and insert it into the end of the strip, about 2 seconds and it will give you a reading. for example 5.7


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> easy as anything mate, i've been checking mine every few hours, literally pop the strip in, it loads up. load the jabbing pen up, i would recoomend highest setting as it barely pierces the skin on the lower settings, squeeze out a a good drop of blood and insert it into the end of the strip, about 2 seconds and it will give you a reading. for example 5.7


So 4.0-7.0 is a normal reading? And what should happen if it drops either side of those numbers? get some sugar in? and these machines expensive?

Sorry for Hijacking this mate, but appreciate your input to.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> So 4.0-7.0 is a normal reading? And what should happen if it drops either side of those numbers? get some sugar in? and these machines expensive?
> 
> Sorry for Hijacking this mate, but appreciate your input to.


Pretty much spot on, if you go under you are looking at Hypo so sugar is your first port of call. hense why Aus and others talk about having lucozade etc to hand and regularly monitoring BG levels


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

oh and for going over......

http://www.symptomshyperglycemia.com/


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

iElite said:


> Massive thanks again aus, very very useful info. Are glucose meters hard to read / understand? I'm probably going to go for it, sounds useful, I wouldn't know what readings to look out for though.
> 
> I think i heard somewhere, 4.0-7.0 was normal. Take it post shot after carb up? again thanks for the time and input mate.


5.7 is a fasted reading i.e normal person who get up in the morning, before breakfast (like when you go for a blood test).

Your body will normally try and keep at 7.0 during the day, with food in take

Don't drop under 4.0. There is some personal differences, but at 2.2 my wife had to be injected with a hypo kit by the paramedics (she passed out in the gym, low carb diet, she overdid the weights and then did far to much cardio after- tried to compress the am and pm workout into one.. no insulin involved).

Point being below 4.0 you dont have much time to react before passing out- and most of all you wont think clearly/properly....

You measure your BG 30min, 60min and 90min post shot


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

*Aus - presume you have seen this before from Mike Arnold, I'm guessing you wouldn't favour the approach?*

The best single time is pre-workout, although you need to adhere to specific diet protocols.

Here is a pre-workout insulin protocol, which will kick your ass. Your not going to fnd a pre-workout protocol, which works better. I have tried dozens of different programs in my clients and none of them work as well.

Of course, keep in mind that there are many different ways to run insulin, but if your limiting it to only at workout times, try the following. 10 lbs in 1-2 weeks is common.

Lastly, I will assume you are thoroughy familiar with Insulin and know what signs to look for in the event of hypoglycemia. I am not going to type out all the warning signs or what to do in the event of a hypoglycemic attack. However, the following program is very unlikely to result in any type of serious hypoglycemic event, even in those with extreme inuslin sensitivity. I am also unaware of your bodyweight or dietary needs, so I will write a program which should be suitable for 1st time nsulin users between 200-250 lbs.

30 minutes before workout

Inject 15 IU Humalog

60 grams Vitargo, Karbolyn (or similar).

20 grams of Hydrolyzed protein (whey, casein, or beef).

4.5 grams Leucine.

4.5 grams GPLC.

5 grams Micronized creatine monohydrate.

2 grams Beta alanine.

15 grams Glycerol monostearate

10 grams glutamine.

3 grams Taurine.

2 grams vitamin C.

500 mg Potassium.

60 minutes later

60 grams Vitargo, Karbolyn (or similar).

20 grams Hydrolyzed protein (whey, casein, or beef).

4.5 grams Leucine.

5 grams Micronized creatine monohydrate.

2 grams Beta alanine.

15 grams Glycerol monostearate.

10 grams glutamine.

3 grams Taurine.

60 minutes later

60 grams Vitargo, Karbolyn (or similar).

20 grams hydrolyzed protyein (whey, casein, or beef).

Note: You should consume a regular meal within 3-4 hours of beginning this protocol. Also, I don't recomnmend doing it if it has been 5 or more hours since you heve last eaten, as your blood suagr will be pretty low when you start....so try to get in your last meal within 3 to no more than 4 hours before beginning the protocol.

Lastly, since you will be drinking your last shake either at the end of your workout or very close to it (unless you workout for many hours), there is no need to eat a whole food meal assoonas the workout is over. You can wait a good hour after consuming your fina shake before eating a post-workout meal, as your body will already be supplied with all the nutrients it needs to grow.

This program will work very well for you. Give it a shot. 15 IU is a good starting dose of insulin for a pre-wrkout protocol. The amount of carbs and protien provided is more than enough to use up 15 IU of Slin, but if it worries you, somply use 10 IU for your 1st time and then go up to 15 the next time. Your pumps will be through the ****in' roof and you will quickly gain fullness, size and overall bodyweight. Bottom line: You will feel like you are using AAS for your first time all over again and will look much bigger within just 2 weeks. It will work better if you follow this protocol at least 5 times a week. Guys who train only 3 or 4 days a week don't notice quit as good of results because they're only using Slin 3-4 times per week.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Superhorse said:


> *Aus - presume you have seen this before from Mike Arnold, I'm guessing you wouldn't favour the approach?*
> 
> The best single time is pre-workout, although you need to adhere to specific diet protocols.
> 
> ...


Do the majority only shoot slin on workout days or 7 days a week?


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> 5.7 is a fasted reading i.e normal person who get up in the morning, before breakfast (like when you go for a blood test).
> 
> Your body will normally try and keep at 7.0 during the day, with food in take
> 
> ...


Will make sure I follow that thanks very much. I'm probably going to go for it at the end of September. Following this protocol.

Just need a Glucose Meter.

I think this will be my protocol to begin with, please somebody inform me if i'm out anywhere. Going for as basic as can be.

I'm close with my source, so will be injecting 9IU Novarapid Sub-Q into Abdomen immediately after workout at the gym, which he owns (He'll know the situation and will be well prepared if anything should go wrong), 6:45pm.

I'll then take 120g Dextrose carbs (Rapidly Absorbed Carb shake), whilst at gym.

For the first week or two I'll then wait at gym for 15-20minutes before heading home (20 minute trip).

When I get home, will have my normal evening meal, which will be 300g Chicken, 200g Rice, Another Carb shake, and again for the first few weeks, another carb load before bed, as safety.

As recommended by Aus and WhySo, take BG readings before I leave gym, when I get home, and 8:30-9pm.

Glucose Meter will be something like this - http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/freestyle-lite-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-13313%3Futm_source%3DGoogle%26utm_medium%3DProduct%26utm_campaign%3DProduct?gclid=CMDui5XOr7ICFcPHtAodJzcAJA Will this suffice?

4 weeks on 4 weeks off. I'm 200-205lbs, 5"11 and will also be running, 800mg Test, 600mg Deca, 150mg Anadrol ED alongside the slin on bulk cycle. Diet will 300g Carbs, 410g Protein, 90g fats + Slin meals on top.

Anyone see any problems?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Will make sure I follow that thanks very much. I'm probably going to go for it at the end of September. Following this protocol.
> 
> Just need a Glucose Meter.
> 
> ...


really dont see why you would start at 9ius. why not start lower and see how it goes. also 300g carbs, at 9ius you would be more than likely getting almost 200g of those around time of shot, on a bulk i would be looking at a higher amount of carbs than that


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> really dont see why you would start at 9ius. why not start lower and see how it goes. also 300g carbs, at 9ius you would be more than likely getting almost 200g of those around time of shot, on a bulk i would be looking at a higher amount of carbs than that


300g through the day normal eating mate and I did say in my message that was excluding slin meals.

It's more likely around 500-550g carbs including my slin meals. The reason for 9IU was just from Aus's post specifying 1IU per 10kg of bodyweight.. But I suppose it doesn't take into account sensitivity, plus I'll be new to it, so may drop it to 5-6IU's you think?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> 300g through the day normal eating mate and I did say in my message that was excluding slin meals.
> 
> It's more likely around 500-550g carbs including my slin meals. The reason for 9IU was just from Aus's post specifying 1IU per 10kg of bodyweight.. But I suppose it doesn't take into account sensitivity, plus I'll be new to it, so may drop it to 5-6IU's you think?


i would say its a safe bet to start low to test sensitivity and see how you get on, slin isn't really very expensive anyway so you ill hardly be wasting any.


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

Also, this is the Post-Workout shake I'd be taking after injecting, 120g GI Dextrose, would this suffice?

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/shop-by-category/carbohydrates/fast-release-carbohydrates/dextrose.html



> i would say its a safe bet to start low to test sensitivity and see how you get on, slin isn't really very expensive anyway so you ill hardly be wasting any.


Will probably take your advice and drop it slightly. Thanks mate.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Also, this is the Post-Workout shake I'd be taking after injecting, 120g GI Dextrose, would this suffice?
> 
> http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/shop-by-category/carbohydrates/fast-release-carbohydrates/dextrose.html
> 
> Will probably take your advice and drop it slightly. Thanks mate.


nope go myprotein


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> nope go myprotein


LOL, for the help you've given me throughout, don't see why not. Could you drop me a link for a appropriate Dextrose Shake please mate


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> LOL, for the help you've given me throughout, don't see why not. Could you drop me a link for a appropriate Dextrose Shake please mate


2 options

either this all in one

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/recovery_xs

or make it yourself

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/dextrose

http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/impact_whey_isolate


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> 2 options
> 
> either this all in one
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be possible to just use Dextrose? I've got some Whey at home already, So was going to use Dextrose immediately after. Get home, have my meal, then my low GI high protein shake before bed. that would work fine to wouldn't it?

MP Dextrose looks pretty decent to. Great value...So probably get that.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> Wouldn't it be possible to just use Dextrose? I've got some Whey at home already, So was going to use Dextrose immediately after. Get home, have my meal, then my low GI high protein shake before bed. that would work fine to wouldn't it?
> 
> MP Dextrose looks pretty decent to. Great value...So probably get that.


yeah if you have whey already, add any others you have in as well such as bcaas, glutamine etc


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

WhySoSerious said:


> yeah if you have whey already, add any others you have in as well such as bcaas, glutamine etc


I'm a bit skeptical about it, But I've got Matrix Anabolic Protein with BCAAs and Glutamine ect. Will take that seperately to the Dextrose 1-2 hours later though


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

5ui's post w/o will be more then enough to make you grow substantially. i also doing alot of research into insulin atm as it's the final step (untill they perfect gene doping  ), 80g of carbs after your shot and a carb base meal an hour later seem to be the standars protocal. notice i said carb based not carb only.


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

I was hugely surprised at how cheap Insulin is, I suppose it's readily available.

Do the EPI pens come loaded normally? If so how many IU's contained per pen for Novarapid normally? And If you don't use the full amount, you can't re-jab the remaining amount next time around can you?

Gathering final information


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> I was hugely surprised at how cheap Insulin is, I suppose it's readily available.
> 
> Do the EPI pens come loaded normally? If so how many IU's contained per pen for Novarapid normally? And If you don't use the full amount, you can't re-jab the remaining amount next time around can you?
> 
> Gathering final information


i got the nova cartridges and pen, the cartridges contain 300ius slin andthey slot into the pen, a guide will come with the pen. there is a twist bit at the end of the pen in which you turn around to your desired iu amoun and then press down on it when injected and it will release the desired amount of slin. then just pop the lid back on


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

https://www.healthyoutcomes.com/pdf/flexpen7030eng.pdf


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## iElite (Jan 17, 2012)

I'll probably need a pen and a load of needles, as I'm assuming they need replacing every shot. Not sure if you'd be able to point me in the right direction without breaking any UKM rules, I'm sure I can find some easily enough 

Thanks for all the help.  Much appreciated.


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

iElite said:


> I'll probably need a pen and a load of needles, as I'm assuming they need replacing every shot. Not sure if you'd be able to point me in the right direction without breaking any UKM rules, I'm sure I can find some easily enough
> 
> Thanks for all the help.  Much appreciated.


im not sure about the needles, someone on here sent me a load and i got my pen etc for free from a diabetic but i know if you search for the novorapid pen they are available to buy on loads of sites


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

WhySoSerious said:


> i got the nova cartridges and pen, the cartridges contain 300ius slin andthey slot into the pen, a guide will come with the pen. there is a twist bit at the end of the pen in which you turn around to your desired iu amoun and then press down on it when injected and it will release the desired amount of slin. then just pop the lid back on


Sorry a slight tangent I've seen lantus slin vials. Do you know if other slin analogues come in vials or is it mostly the cartridge and pen set up?


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## Outtapped (Dec 10, 2012)

RowRow said:


> Sorry a slight tangent I've seen lantus slin vials. Do you know if other slin analogues come in vials or is it mostly the cartridge and pen set up?


all the short acting I have seen through researching have been cartridges. I haven't done a great deal of research in to long acting slin variations though


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## Dbol_dan (Sep 25, 2011)

Lantus, novorapid and various humalin/humalog are available in pen/cartridge/vial form. Vials are 10ml but expire at the same rate as the 3ml pens/cartridges


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## CroverNo (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm a Type 1 Diabetic - I run 40u Lantus and about 48u Nova Per day

My ratio is 1u for 10g Carbs - If I take my shake at full amounts thats 25u Which is crazy as that could kill a diabetic. But Just been on a CGM Which monitors my levels 24/7 and they actually were very good.

Hopefully when Google rolls out the contact lens will be perfect. I find it hard as a diabetic as most the bulk foods are loaded with carbs and means I have to take **** loads of slin. Hopefully can get things under control and start my first cycle on Tbol soon.

I been doing some reading that slin can be used as well for use hence why these threads have been created. Not sure what affect it will have me if I went on a slin cycle to help with getting size and definition.


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