# DOES? TBOL Shut you down?



## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

As I have said in a few threads... I am going to run a tbol cycle @ 50mg ed for 6 wks...

Can anyone who has run it as a stand alone oral mention any sides they have had...

Would also like to know how bad if at all, Tbol shuts you down

I know sides are mild just want to know what to look out for

Thanks guys


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## genesis (Jul 4, 2006)

Yes it does, do a pct, sides cramps, and sore joints


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

yes, all steroids and anything that replaces testosterone will shut you down


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

any steroid taken in high enough doses to cause muscle growth will suppress your HPTA any one who says different is an idiot


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

lol ^ well said. Its shocking how many people do not know this, I'm talking big and lean guys with years of cycle history that will flat out state that any amount of winny will never shut you down but test will in an instant..


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

MXD said:


> lol ^ well said. Its shocking how many people do not know this, I'm talking big and lean guys with years of cycle history that will flat out state that any amount of winny will never shut you down but test will in an instant..


 Once you inject test yes you will be shut down for certain, however, winstrol or any other oral taken at certain times per day such as at breakfast or pre work out in low doses will have minimal effect on the hpta because it is not active 24/7.

This is where the 10mg dbol bridge comes in, all the people who use legal steriod compounds using the pulse method(use only on training days).

Certaintly it will have some sort of shut down but it is nothing compared to coming off a 16 week course of tren and test.

My opinion on a 50mg tbol cycle? Absalute rubbish, tbol is questionable at best IMO. If i was going to mess around and not bother doing a real cycle i would do some thing like 10mg dbol pre work out, would i ever do that? No chance total waste of time IMO just as is the tbol cycle. Get on a nice solid 12 week course of test at a dose of 500mg and change your body completely not just mess around.


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## wezke (Aug 23, 2008)

Tbol for 6 weeks at 60mgs gave me reasonable gains

sides cramps litle acne and litle bloat


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Guys there are two things here

1 - shutdown

2 - Suppression

Both the above are brought on by steroid use many steroids will suppress the HPTA at the start then slowly shut it down as the length of cycle becomes longer,,,

Con i rarely disagree with you but this method you are talking about y taking certain steroids at certain times to prevent any effect on the HPTA is pure hogwash mate any steroid taken in sufficient dose to cause muscle growth with shut the HPTA down over time....and lets face it if the amount taken will not cause muscle growth then whats the point?

Nearly all of the threads on this and other boards i have seen where they preach the usefulness of bridging and the fact it does not effect the HPTA make this assumption by how they feel not one of these threads have backed up their assumptions with blood tests to show no effect or little effect on the HPTA and until that happens i will continue to believe those guys are kidding themselves....


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> Con i rarely disagree with you but this method you are talking about y taking certain steroids at certain times to prevent any effect on the HPTA is pure hogwash mate any steroid taken in sufficient dose to cause muscle growth with shut the HPTA down over time....and lets face it if the amount taken will not cause muscle growth then whats the point?
> 
> Nearly all of the threads on this and other boards i have seen where they preach the usefulness of bridging and the fact it does not effect the HPTA make this assumption by how they feel not one of these threads have backed up their assumptions with blood tests to show no effect or little effect on the HPTA and until that happens i will continue to believe those guys are kidding themselves....


 Honestly mate i was really just trying to see where the original poster was coming from. Having read on various boards about using a small amount of dbol (14 day dbol 14 day off)ext as a "pre work out booster" in doses which probably dont help gains much. Think of akin to legal prework out boosters such as 17hd from vyotech.

PERSONALLY i would never even consider any method like that as i think its rubbish either do some thing properly or dont do it at all IMO but still believe the suppression will be less on 50mg tbol per day compared to 250mg test.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ahh that's a relief mate, as i said we rarely disagree 

I do agree that suppression will be less on 50mg D/bol than 250mg of Test and you will be shutdown quicker with the test than the D/bo but you will reach shutdown at some point on the D/bol....

I have read a medical study in MD how low dose courses are a waste saying that because we produce a certain amount of test per week so when you shutdown you are only replacing your natural amount so the cycle is a waste if you follow me...


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> I have read a medical study in MD how low dose courses are a waste saying that because we produce a certain amount of test per week so when you shutdown you are only replacing your natural amount so the cycle is a waste if you follow me...


 I fully agree with that logic, especially when younger guys (such as my self) state they are going to do a test cycle of 250mg IMO that will be hardly better than taking nothing at all BUT once the cycle is over the natural test must still be restarted. Seems like a big waste of time to me:confused1:

Either step up and do it properly or dont do any thing at all.

When i was 19 the local "guru" advised me to do 250mg deca with 100mg primo for 4 week bursts followed by 2 weeks off.....needless to say i quickly realised that it was actually a hinderance when compared to taking nothing!


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Con said:


> I fully agree with that logic, especially when younger guys (such as my self) state they are going to do a test cycle of 250mg IMO that will be hardly better than taking nothing at all BUT once the cycle is over the natural test must still be restarted. Seems like a big waste of time to me:confused1:
> 
> Either step up and do it properly or dont do any thing at all.
> 
> When i was 19 the local "guru" advised me to do 250mg deca with 100mg primo for 4 week bursts followed by 2 weeks off.....needless to say i quickly realised that it was actually a hinderance when compared to taking nothing!


Can we assume he made some good money from the Primo advice...? :thumb: :whistling:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Jasper said:


> As I have said in a few threads... I am going to run a tbol cycle @ 50mg ed for 6 wks...
> 
> Can anyone who has run it as a stand alone oral mention any sides they have had...
> 
> ...


You will be inhibited yes. If you are lucky your natty test levels will remain in the low end of the normal range.

You will still need to run a PCT.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

TH&S said:


> Can we assume he made some good money from the Primo advice...? :thumb: :whistling:


 He did indeed, and to top it off it was fake primo He also sold me 10 amps of parabolon which isnt ever legit any more telling me it was primo:lol:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Con said:


> He did indeed, and to top it off it was fake primo He also sold me 10 amps of parabolon which isnt ever legit any more telling me it was primo:lol:


PMSL.

Real Primo is tough to source. Never mind pharma Primo.

And Parabolan was - so I'm informed - like hens teeth :laugh:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Con said:


> I fully agree with that logic, especially when younger guys (such as my self) state they are going to do a test cycle of 250mg IMO that will be hardly better than taking nothing at all BUT once the cycle is over the natural test must still be restarted. Seems like a big waste of time to me:confused1:
> 
> Either step up and do it properly or dont do any thing at all.
> 
> When i was 19 the local "guru" advised me to do 250mg deca with 100mg primo for 4 week bursts followed by 2 weeks off.....needless to say i quickly realised that it was actually a hinderance when compared to taking nothing!


exactly the point of the article mate they found that anything 300mg and below was a waste of time and you would be looking at 500mg and above to make the cycle worth its while.

i will try and dig out the cycle and quote its source


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

well I take what you are saying... You are very honest... I now ask this...

Is there anything I can take to keep me performing in the bedroom dept the same as I am now, when I am on the gear?..

I see that no matter what I take it will shut me down at some point in my cycle and with a good PCT you can get it back on track...

I have the TBOL and would like to know what I can inject along side to give me some quality gains without the water...

I am 12 stones and just want to get to 13.5stones quality size...

hope you can help...


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

Not sure who you directed the question at, but a 12 week course of test enthanate at a dose of 500mg per week which is then kick started by 6 weeks of 50mg tbol.

After last shot of test e wait 2 full weeks during this time run 500iu hcg every other day then run the following

100mg clomid for 2 weeks

followed by 50mg clomid for 2 weeks

during these 4 weeks 20mg nolva


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## The Animal (Jul 15, 2008)

Con said:


> Not sure who you directed the question at, but a 12 week course of test enthanate at a dose of 500mg per week which is then kick started by 6 weeks of 50mg tbol.
> 
> After last shot of test e wait 2 full weeks during this time run 500iu hcg every other day then run the following
> 
> ...


Great advice here dude^

You'll grow like a weed.


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

sounds g8,,, any info on how I can keep my wife happy in that time. ie in the bedroom... is it through viagra?


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

You should have no problems at all matey in that area, I'm horney as on just test cycle.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2008)

Jasper said:


> sounds g8,,, any info on how I can keep my wife happy in that time. ie in the bedroom... is it through viagra?


 During which time? On cycle you will need nothing you will be like an animal as far as sex drive goes. When you come off your libido will drop more than likely at least a bit, you see thats the problem with viagra usually the problem is not wanting sex enough to have an erection not wanting sex crazyly bad but not getting it hard in that case viagra would be great.


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

Con said:


> During which time? On cycle you will need nothing you will be like an animal as far as sex drive goes. When you come off your libido will drop more than likely at least a bit, you see thats the problem with viagra usually the problem is not wanting sex enough to have an erection not wanting sex crazyly bad but not getting it hard in that case viagra would be great.


I take what you are saying and i am going to take the advice about the test from you guys... will start my cycle after a month as I want to make sure training diet and such are fully in place first. I would like to hit you all back again when I take the plunge as to do it all in the correct way. Like I said b4 I have the TBOL TAMOXIFEN and PROVIRON so dont want it to go to wast. I will grab some test from my (gear guy) before I start.

Also about a year ago I took a **** load of PROVIRON as a mate said it will get you mad horney all the time. The proviron f%%%d me up and shut me down man I kid you not. took me just over a month to get back to wanting to have sex again do you know why this was. I feel ok now but just wanted to inform and get feedback from you guys.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Proviron will not shut you down it is virtually impossible unless you took 500mg ed for a long time how much every day did you take?, proviron is a very weak steroid and has no effect on the HPTA....when you say you was shut down was only because you had no libido that you make this assumption or did you get bloods done?

when i was shutdown for 11 months it was Proviron at 250mg ed for 6 weeks that brought my sperm count and motility back to conceive my son and whilst doing this my HPTA recovered from being severely crashed...


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> Proviron will not shut you down it is virtually impossible unless you took 500mg ed for a long time how much every day did you take?, proviron is a very weak steroid and has no effect on the HPTA....when you say you was shut down was only because you had no libido that you make this assumption or did you get bloods done?
> 
> when i was shutdown for 11 months it was Proviron at 250mg ed for 6 weeks that brought my sperm count and motility back to conceive my son and whilst doing this my HPTA recovered from being severely crashed...


Yes mate my bloods were fine but I had zilch labido dont know what the frigg happend... it was very scary... I am not saying it was the Porviron but it was the only thing i took... thank god I am ok now...

I have been looking at my future cycle and am wondering that with the test and the tbol. how much can i keep after the cycle is over. I train EOD and can keep this up... However I hear that with test there is loads of water retention and after I stop I will deflate (is this true)? Dont want to do loades of gear all my life but just want to get to a levle that I can maintain. thanks for you help. what do you think... I was even thinking of running my tbol with some EQpoize for around 10 weeks. what do u think?


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## Graham24 (Jul 28, 2008)

MXD said:


> You should have no problems at all matey in that area, *I'm horney as on just test cycle*.


Your telling me, my girlfriend is wondering why i am so horny all the time :lol: Cant get enough at the moment.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

jasper if your bloods where fine then you where not shutdown which is what i would of expected just remember alot of things can effect the libido not just steroids...


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Tamoxifen only PCT is not a great idea, everyone I hear whining about their PCT going not so well has failed to add in clomid.


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## The Animal (Jul 15, 2008)

Graham24 said:


> Your telling me, my girlfriend is wondering why i am so horny all the time :lol: Cant get enough at the moment.


If the wind blows across me at the right angle.

Im tenting.

Its great, but sometimes abit akward.


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> jasper if your bloods where fine then you where not shutdown which is what i would of expected just remember alot of things can effect the libido not just steroids...


Your right and I may have been stressed as there was alot going on in my life at the time.

any feedback on the water retention with the test and the tbol?

I will deffo also add clomid 4 PCT Like i said i take on board what you all have been saying.

am I right in thinking that Tamoxifen is the same a Novadex?

i was told this...

I also mentioned that I wanted to put on clean hard muscle so want to know how much of the test/TBOL cycle I will keep...


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## geezuz (Oct 29, 2007)

With well timed Pct and most of all the right nutritional intake, exercise and rest you should net around 10-12 pounds. After PCT. Good luck mate.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Jasper said:


> Your right and I may have been stressed as there was alot going on in my life at the time.
> 
> any feedback on the water retention with the test and the tbol?
> 
> ...


tamoxifen and nolva are the same thing, you can keep 90% of your gains (only lose the water) if your PCT and diet are spot on.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

thestudbeast said:


> you can keep 90% of your gains (only lose the water) if your PCT and diet are spot on.


Amen to that


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

> like hens teeth


Hens dont have teeth ???


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

> you can keep 90% of your gains (only lose the water) if your PCT and diet are spot on


i would like to know people that keep 90 % of gains, not met many so far ??


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## Graham24 (Jul 28, 2008)

The Animal said:


> If the wind blows across me at the right angle.
> 
> *Im tenting*.
> 
> Its great, but sometimes abit akward.


LMAO :laugh:

Great saying.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

romper stomper said:


> Hens dont have teeth ???


lol:laugh: similar to people going deaf in one eye


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

romper stomper said:


> i would like to know people that keep 90 % of gains, not met many so far ??


hi nice to meet you:thumb:


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## budgie (Nov 20, 2007)

very interesting thread, a good read for me. back in the olden days before nolva/clomid was even made what did bb do for pct, im talking arnie pre arnie days, and was it mostly orals available back then.

there is alot more info these days inernet/forums so on,

ive been looking at some old books and these guys were huge not natural, black and white pics they were, this is got me wondering about my ?.

thanks


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

PCT recovers the HPTA you can still be huge if you don't do a PCT i did not do PCT for many years the problem is that you run the high risk of losing a lot of what you have gained...no one can say what the guys in the olden days did but then no one knows what they used or even if they cycled their gear whose to say they came off? they might of bridged with D/bol....

the biggest difference back then to know is those big guys where few and far between where now a days in most decent gyms you will get guys as big if not bigger.....


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Pscarb said:


> PCT recovers the HPTA you can still be huge if you don't do a PCT i did not do PCT for many years the problem is that you run the high risk of losing a lot of what you have gained...no one can say what the guys in the olden days did but then no one knows what they used or even if they cycled their gear whose to say they came off? they might of bridged with D/bol....
> 
> the biggest difference back then to know is those big guys where few and far between where now a days in most decent gyms you will get guys as big if not bigger.....


Just out of interest Paul - roughly when did doing a PCT become common place?

Presumably in the days of Arnold it would not have been done?

He used to eat dianabol like sweets didn't he? - 'the breakfast of champions' :tongue:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

do you mean when did it become common place for me mate? or in general for me i can answer it was 7-8yrs ago but i really only had the knowledge to make it effective around 4yrs ago....

if you mean in general i have not got a scooby mate


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

Pscarb said:


> do you mean when did it become common place for me mate? or in general for me i can answer it was 7-8yrs ago but i really only had the knowledge to make it effective around 4yrs ago....
> 
> if you mean in general i have not got a scooby mate


Knowing your experiences of it is interesting enough, so cheers for that.

I don't know if you've always been as well connected/informed as you clearly are now for me to use your timescale as a rule for gear users in general, but if so, it would mean that Yates - winning his last Olympia 11 years ago now - may not have done PCTs either, and Arnold almost definitely wouldn't have.

Hopefully Hacks or Redman might find this thread and shed some light on it.


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

Well I am very happy with this thread and how it has interested many... I have changed my mind about the structure of my cycle... I will want to run a TEST / equipiose 12 weeks cycle PCT Clomid and N-dex...

just will need advice about amount of mg's and times to jab...

thanks for all your help...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I found out about it 5 years ago, I did alot of reading on the HPTA back then, I found guys like Swale giving HCG advice 7 years ago.

It would be a good idea to taper the SERM at the end, doing a 30 day PCT with clomid and nolva and stopping all meds same day can cause estrogen rebounding.

Run the nolva a week longer, it is advisable to also cut the dose in half for 5 days, so that is 10mg. Then stop.

I doubt you will be that happy with that cycle.

Many people deal with supression diffrent, some get it, some dont.


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## Jasper (Aug 18, 2008)

Thanks for all your help in this matter... I am glad i came across this board... all the best... Will keep posting...


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2008)

> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by romper stomper
> 
> ...


He he he nice one Paulie ;o)


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

romper stomper said:


> i would like to know people that keep 90 % of gains, not met many so far ??


i know a lot er guys that have kept around 90% of there gains, they did there pct correctly all most if not all who i asked said the key to keeping most of it is keeping the calloric and nutrition intake sky high during there PCT


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hell, peptides and slin will allow you to keep your size during PCT...............lol

It is a good idea to run GH during PCT.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

totally agree Scott GH and IGF in PCT is a good thing to do.........but not everyday...the key is in the timing


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## geezuz (Oct 29, 2007)

Howz about L3 IGF-1, seems to be a hellofa peptide this one, anyone done it? Sorry mods if i should start a new thread? cheers


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

there is lots of info on the board in the Muscle research section concerning IGF-1LR3 have a look then ask any questions you have


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