# Rich Piana's cycle..



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)




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## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

This made me chuckle.


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

You're lying. Rich piana is my favourite natural vegan bodybuilder.

Edit - fvck. Wasted my 1000th post on a leather mutant full of vegetable oil!


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

Dude looks like a mutated leather couch that's been scribbled over with a Crayola.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Thoughts?. I would rather watch twilight..lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Tapering?

Jabbing test e and deca 3 times a week, even when low volume.

D ball? Dbol.

Anavar for 2 weeks?

50000iu hcg LOL

That being said, that cycle will work, it's gear, don't care what you put with what, it is going to work.

Who am I to mock though, I've been on 2.5 years and a nobody, he has been on over 20 years with quite a few achievements.


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Doesn't need to use synthol with all that oil being pumped in


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## fermanagh24 (Sep 22, 2012)

I think this is the kind of cycle that is needed to grow like f**k. It seems to be these massive amounts of gear are what a lot of the big dudes are on, but few admit. Guys like Bostin loyd get my respect for being honest.

I'm starting to think high doses of gear are the only answer for me. 750mgs test and a bit of deca or EQ per week doesn't seem to be having the affect on me it did have. Thinking of coming off everything for a while, save like f**k and just try a big cycle for 6 months to see the outcome.


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Going to school is important but steroids are importanter


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

fermanagh24 said:


> I think this is the kind of cycle that is needed to grow like f**k. It seems to be these massive amounts of gear are what a lot of the big dudes are on, but few admit. Guys like Bostin loyd get my respect for being honest.
> 
> I'm starting to think high doses of gear are the only answer for me. 750mgs test and a bit of deca or EQ per week doesn't seem to be having the affect on me it did have. Thinking of coming off everything for a while, save like f**k and just try a big cycle for 6 months to see the outcome.


 Pics?


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

do it m8. kill it ,tell us the results  interesting.

but thats a mild cycle for Riche he says hes looking after his health these days hehe


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> Tapering?
> 
> Jabbing test e and deca 3 times a week, even when low volume.
> 
> ...


 except rich's arms are primarily SEO and hes been on 17 years longer than you yet probably has less legit lbm

there was even rumour a while back from an ex of piano's that hes had some sort of implant in his delts much like a boob job for the shoulders

i like his honesty but the advice he gives out is trash

*do 1000 tricep extensions before bed so you dream about building muscle and wake with bigger muscles

*8 hour arm workout.... 8 hours!

*no such thing as over training just under eating

sure hes successful but id attribute that more to his uniqueness, business mind set and sheer luck (he bought into real estate at exactly the right time after making a fortune essentially gambling on stocks as he admits didnt have a a clue what he was putting his money into)






Boz Scaggs 5 months ago

Aren't you supposed to try to make posing look effortless?﻿

Reply · 263


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

swole troll said:


> except riches arms are primarily SEO and hes trained 17 years longer than you yet probably has less legit lbm
> 
> there was even rumour a while back from an ex of piano's that hes had some sort of implant in his delts much like a boob job for the shoulders
> 
> ...


 True, his advice is generally awful and certainly nothing I aspire to lol.


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

swole troll said:


> *do 1000 tricep extensions before bed so you dream about building muscle and wake with bigger muscles
> 
> *8 hour arm workout.... 8 hours!
> 
> *no such thing as over training just under eating


 im not sure about that m8 Arnie was a firm believer in blasting muscles being the only way to make them grow. he said hed seen a skin kids with pins for legs hammering squat after squat day in day out in order to force growth and it had really payed off for him his legs were huge after a while. you cant knock old skol training it works?


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> @swole troll Rich at 18 years old (Not sure why my post has messed up and quoted Dark Sim)


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

toxyuk said:


> im not sure about that m8 Arnie was a firm believer in blasting muscles being the only way to make them grow. he said hed seen a skin kids with pins for legs hammering squat after squat day in day out in order to force growth and it had really payed off for them there legs were huge. you cant knock old skol training it works?


 there has been quote from guys who trained with arnold in the 70's at golds gym who stated that its a crock that he use to train all day long, 2-3 hours tops, 8 hours is ridiculous

i agree that for stubborn muscle groups usually volume needs to go up if what youre doing isnt working however the extent rich takes it too is just too much and is a sure fire way of developing elbow tendinitis and subsequently losing arm size due to being unable to train them properly


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

DLTBB said:


> Dark sim said:
> 
> 
> > @swole troll Rich at 18 years old (Not sure why my post has messed up and quoted Dark Sim)


 hes in bloody good nick

why didnt he stay like that

ever see greg valentino when he was young?









same deal

soon as they go overboard with the SEO they end up lookling like sh1t


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

swole troll said:


> hes in bloody good nick
> 
> why didnt he stay like that
> 
> ...


 They probably have major body dysmorphia and always want to take it one step further, I agree he looks weird now but he had promising genetics considering how young he was in that pic!


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

swole troll said:


> there has been quote from guys who trained with arnold in the 70's at golds gym who stated that its a crock that he use to train all day long, 2-3 hours tops, 8 hours is ridiculous


 twice a day sometimes.. also why would emphasize it so much in his bodybuilding encyclopedia if it was bullshit?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

DLTBB said:


> They probably have major body dysmorphia and always want to take it one step further, I agree he looks weird now but he had promising genetics considering how young he was in that pic!
> 
> well i cant post in here anymore without putting it all in this quote haha, its definitely that mate, shame really as he does have decent genetics, to each their own, my only real gripe with piana is the advice he gives out can be damaging to others and with such a wide audience its sure a few naive or new trainers have followed his advice and wound up hurting themselves


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

toxyuk said:


> twice a day sometimes.. also why would emphasize it so much in his bodybuilding encyclopedia if it was bullshit?


 does he condone 8 hours training?

i honestly havnt read through his encylopedia but i dont doubt that he has put in two a day training but is each session 4 hours long equalling that of which piana prescribes?

have you ever tried running one of piana's lifting protocols such as doing 1000 tricep and bicep movements before bed so you have nightmares about growing muscles and subsequently build more muscle or his all day arm workout

i think for the vast majority of people theyd wind up getting injured and the ones who didnt and did make gains are those with the genetics that theyll grow off of anything provided the food n drugs are right and even then both types of trainee would make better overall gains and far less chance of over use injury by sticking to training 60 - 90 minutes per session, 3-5 times per week


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

swole troll said:


> does he condone 8 hours training?
> 
> i honestly havnt read through his encylopedia but i dont doubt that he has put in two a day training but is each session 4 hours long equalling that of which piana prescribes?
> 
> ...


 i didnt say that it was wrong to train as you suggested. it was just a point from old skol training methods by a proffessional who as won mr olympia several times. why would he publish his own book full off bullshit its the method he used to produce his olympic physiue thats all.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Oldskool.. it's written on paper must be real.

Week 20.. must remind myself to be off everything.


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## INTP (Mar 30, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> Tapering?
> 
> Jabbing test e and deca 3 times a week, even when low volume.
> 
> ...


 Only 2.5 years? You look fantastic for only that short amount of time.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

INTP said:


> Only 2.5 years? You look fantastic for only that short amount of time.


 :thumb: Have been training about 15 years.


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## Durantula93 (May 20, 2014)

He's so UNaesthetic ...


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Durantula93 said:


> He's so UNaesthetic ...


 Now he is, yeah. He looked great when he was young though. This is him at 18.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

fermanagh24 said:


> I think this is the kind of cycle that is needed to grow like f**k. It seems to be these massive amounts of gear are what a lot of the big dudes are on, but few admit. Guys like Bostin loyd get my respect for being honest.
> 
> I'm starting to think high doses of gear are the only answer for me. 750mgs test and a bit of deca or EQ per week doesn't seem to be having the affect on me it did have. Thinking of coming off everything for a while, save like f**k and just try a big cycle for 6 months to see the outcome.


 What kind of cycle and doses?

Im happy to do something similar


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## mmichael (Dec 7, 2014)

I don't understand what is the point of doing this.

Can some one explain to me, that has a lot of experience?

I've always thought ANY steroids will Inc nitrogen retention to build muscle. Some steroids do it better than others, but if ur keeping compounds low and just switching them up, all ur doing is switching compounds with nearly slightly stronger or lower nitrogen retention? So in reality, ur doing nothing.

The only exception to fix this, is to simply INCREASE the dosage of a steroid that works well in increasing nitrogen retention. So basically put, 400mg of tren is good, but 750 is better. This would add more mass as long as diet is in check and set in order for u to grow.

The same goes for length of cycles too. Some guys seem to think that ur better off running short blasts and longer cruises cause ur body is use to what u put in it? This make no sense. If u ran 400mg tren for 8 weeks, good results. If u ran 400mg tren for 20 weeks, better results. The steroids will always aid in building more and more muscle, as long as they are there and in ur blood stream. The thing that people seem to forget by going by MEALS, rather than count calories is the lack of variable change. Yes the gear is the same, the training is there and good, but they do not realize more mass requires more food. If u go by calories u can always keep adding more and more when u hit a stable weight for 1-2 weeks in a row and see no change. yes adding in MORE gear and HIGHER dosages WILL increase nitrogen retention and thus add more mass + surplus always rising over time as ur body changing. Summary: No need to switch compounds, cause it doesn't work. The only thing rich is right about in his videos is that more = more, but keep in mind when u increase one thing, others must require change to account for it.

I've had my best gains on my test cycle that I ran for 22 weeks at 500mg. The times they were the best was during 15-22. Not so much during week 8-12. The main thing I changed during the mid-cycle was more calories.


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## fermanagh24 (Sep 22, 2012)

Mark2021 said:


> What kind of cycle and doses?
> 
> Im happy to do something similar


 one of the massive cycles I have heard Bostin loyd speak about is 1.5g test per week, 900mgs EQ per week, 400mgs tren acetate per week, 4iu hgh every morning and 10iu fast acting insulin after training lol!!!!! Sounds mental, but f**k it, let's go for it lol



Mark2021 said:


> What kind of cycle and doses?
> 
> Im happy to do something similar


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## fermanagh24 (Sep 22, 2012)

Mark2021 said:


> What kind of cycle and doses?
> 
> Im happy to do something similar


 one of the massive cycles I have heard Bostin loyd speak about is 1.5g test per week, 900mgs EQ per week, 400mgs tren acetate per week, 4iu hgh every morning and 10iu fast acting insulin after training lol!!!!! Sounds mental, but f**k it, let's go for it lol



Mark2021 said:


> What kind of cycle and doses?
> 
> Im happy to do something similar


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## benji666 (Apr 18, 2015)

swole troll said:


> does he condone 8 hours training?
> 
> i honestly havnt read through his encylopedia but i dont doubt that he has put in two a day training but is each session 4 hours long equalling that of which piana prescribes?
> 
> ...


 I am doing arnolds double split right now. what it is, is you train twice a day 3 days a week, and the other 3 days once a day. The twice a day sessions are chest, back in the morning, legs and abs in the evening. Each session is not 4 hours long, I would say chest and back takes me 2 hours max including warm up and stretch , legs and abs around two hours maybe a bit less. so thats two two hour sessions three days a week.

The shoulders,arms and abs,calves which is the once a day session on the other 3 days is longerand about 3 hours. Because forearms are also trained, as well as calves and abs for hundreds of reps and some exercises you need to work one arm at time for 5 sets each.

I have been building up to this for months and being very sensible. It is doable and still have a life go to work etc etc wouldn't recommend trying it with a physical job though , you need a very good diet, vitamins and certainly gear of good quality. It is physically doable,Although I just took some time off and paid for it in a big way when I came back to the gym . It certainly is an unforgiving programme. Certainly couldn't do it if I was married and had a family.

but mentally I would see you could get sick of the gym. Iam just enjoying the progress Iam making, but I do think once I reach a plateau or something becomes difficult,that is more the issue really.

I can only speak for the owner of my gym who witness'd arnold training at wag bennets gym before he moved to the states. He told me, hours in the gym was pretty standard back then, for most competing bodybuilders, twice a day sessions wasn't all that unusual,arnold did not invent that. It was how some did it back then, What made arnold different though, was the intensity he trained in those hours. He told me, he has never seen that before or since. Arnold would train after a night out drinking, go into the gym at 3am and do countless ab exercises. while the rest could hardly climb up the stairs from the booze. To be honest, the owner of my gym thought arnold wasn't the full ticket mentally. Not mentally ill ,but something a bit off.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

benji666 said:


> I am doing arnolds double split right now. what it is, is you train twice a day 3 days a week, and the other 3 days once a day. The twice a day sessions are chest, back in the morning, legs and abs in the evening. Each session is not 4 hours long, I would say chest and back takes me 2 hours max including warm up and stretch , legs and abs around two hours maybe a bit less. so thats two two hour sessions three days a week.
> 
> The shoulders,arms and abs,calves which is the once a day session on the other 3 days is longerand about 3 hours. Because forearms are also trained, as well as calves and abs for hundreds of reps and some exercises you need to work one arm at time for 5 sets each.
> 
> ...


 interesting read

im not opposed to prolonged sessions and there is certainly benefit to doing 2 a days in some circumstances but i feel the extra bang for your buck isnt that much greater than doing just one slightly longer session, getting out the gym and resting up

each to their own and if its working for you then more power to you however rich's 8 hour arm workout i will never see as a productive way of training unless hypertrophy of the connective tissue is your primary focus

sure arnold built an amazing physique training twice per day but would he have got their just training once per day? probably but if he enjoyed training like that then that would have motivated him to keep going

the word 'optimal' gets thrown around a lot in bodybuilding and powerlifting in regards to training, diet, supps ect but really for most of these variables provided you have the basics locked down (you eat well and sufficient amounts, rest enough, train with progression) your going to make 90% of your results and all the little bells and whistles just make up 1% 's here and there

the MAIN factor in getting results in anything is that you enjoy the journey, if you drag your ass to the gym 6 times a week and run a tailored program for which you can progress on session by session, week by week or you can workout 2 - 3 times per week but with 100% intensity, focus and motivation then the latter is the better of the two and has the most potential for long term results

it works the other way also, i personally believe hitting muscles two to three times per week is taking better advantage of protein synthesis than hitting them once per week with insane amounts of volume but if training on a bro split is what gets you pumped and motivated to go to the gym then that is what you will make the greater progress on in the long term

all the above applies to arnolds twice a day training, its not going to be worlds apart in terms of results when compared to conventional once per day training otherwise the overwhelming majority of those with enough time on their hands would be doing it


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

mmichael said:


> I don't understand what is the point of doing this.
> 
> Can some one explain to me, that has a lot of experience?
> 
> ...


 If this was the case then why the need for compounds like Mast or Primo? They are very mild in terms of muscle building, but enhance many stacks when added.

This in mind, I have run test only all off season. However, if I add 400mg of NPP compared to an additional 400mg of test, the difference is certainly enough to notice. Other compounds ALL have different effects, some working better together than others.

As for shorter cycles (b&c) over long cycles, diminishing returns and health are considerable factors when running longer cycles. I'm not saying b&c is healthy by any means but the side effects are less prominent and health markers are less effected.


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

fermanagh24 said:


> Mark2021 said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of cycle and doses?
> ...


Hahah that's pretty tame for boston lol


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

fermanagh24 said:


> one of the massive cycles I have heard Bostin loyd speak about is 1.5g test per week, 900mgs EQ per week, 400mgs tren acetate per week, 4iu hgh every morning and 10iu fast acting insulin after training lol!!!!! Sounds mental, but f**k it, let's go for it lol


 Didn't see this. This isn't a mental cycle by any means, especially for BL.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

if we're talking Bostin's most ridiculous dosages surely this one takes the biscuit






those orals though.... dont even know how he managed to eat on that much, kid must have a bulletproof liver

here's a list of all that he took during his 20 week prep for a show that he lost and actually came in looking stringy and flat:

OILS

Test Enth and Prop combined - 1200mg tapered up to 3500mg PW
Test Suspension - 100mg ED
Deca - 600mg tapered up to 800mg PW
EQ - 600mg tapered up to 1200mg PW
Npp - 450mg tapered up to 800mg PW
Tren Suspension - 75mg 5x per week pre workout
Tren A - 300mg EOD tapered up to 300mg ED 
Primo E - 300mg tapered up to 2100mg PW
Primo A - 25mg EOD tapered up to 50mg ED
Mast P - 300mg EOD tapered up to 300mg ED
Winstrol injectable - 150mg ED

ORALS

dianabol - 30mg ED tapered up to 50mg ED
anadrol - 50mg ED tapered up to 150mg ED
winstrol - 50mg ED tapered up to 150mg ED with an additional 150mg ED injectable winstrol 
anavar 50mg ED tapered up to 150mg ED 
halo - 20mg ED tapered up to 60mg ED 
proviron - 50mg ED tapered up to 200mg ED 
superdrol - 30mg ED tapered up to 50mg ED 
primo tabs - 100 - 125mg ED

he also used a load of peps, slin, gh and DNP

EDIT - had a bit of time to kill so added up the oils as well


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

swole troll said:


> if we're talking Bostin's most ridiculous dosages surely this one takes the biscuit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ah, every oral available then, chuck um all in just in case.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Dead lee said:


> Ah, every oral available then, chuck um all in just in case.


 tbh i reckon he either A ) pulls have these numbers out his ass or B ) is getting sold shed loads of under dosed gear or even some of it just pure bunk

i cant see how he would even be able to look at food at those dosages

ive taken a fraction of that in the past and been insanely lethargic with crippling back pumps and found eating to be a chore


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

swole troll said:


> tbh i reckon he either A ) pulls have these numbers out his ass or B ) is getting sold shed loads of under dosed gear or even some of it just pure bunk
> 
> i cant see how he would even be able to look at food at those dosages
> 
> ive taken a fraction of that in the past and been insanely lethargic with crippling back pumps and found eating to be a chore


 I think he talks s**t, he cant have any idea whats working if thats his stack, he just chucks a load of gear in plain and simple.

He can do what he wants to be honest, if bodybuilding is his only goal in life it will catch up with him im sure.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

swole troll said:


> tbh i reckon he either A ) pulls have these numbers out his ass or B ) is getting sold shed loads of under dosed gear or even some of it just pure bunk
> 
> i cant see how he would even be able to look at food at those dosages
> 
> ive taken a fraction of that in the past and been insanely lethargic with crippling back pumps and found eating to be a chore


 You would be surprised at what the big dudes take, an IFBB pro called CagedFreak on anabolicboard says he takes 5g+ Test, 2g+ Eq, 2g+ Deca and 36iu of HGH among other things.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)




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## fermanagh24 (Sep 22, 2012)

Let's all just start takin test and deca by the kilogram and see what happens. Last man standing wins lol


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## AngryBuddha (Nov 25, 2015)

Piana doesnt like the mass, but its necessary for his role, its his selling point, how he earns


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

AngryBuddha said:


> Piana doesnt like the mass, but its necessary for his role, its his selling point, how he earns


 I doubt it.

Most big guys couldn't take the mental effect of being smaller.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Smitch said:


> I doubt it.
> 
> Most big guys couldn't take the mental effect of being smaller.


 Yeah I bet most of the huge guys have bad body dysmorphia. He's trying to get to 305lbs with this cycle.


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## Jay2110 (Jan 18, 2015)

How much would it cost to buy everything you need for that cycle?! Srs question


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Jay2110 said:


> How much would it cost to buy everything you need for that cycle?! Srs question


 Can't discuss prices on the forum, it's the HGH which would make up a bulk of the cost.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

DLTBB said:


> Yeah I bet most of the huge guys have bad body dysmorphia. He's trying to get to 305lbs with this cycle.


 There was a guy that used to be a regular poster on here, very clever and funny guy called JW007.

The guy was a beast, used to do mad SHiC cycles and was a super strong guy too, he died last year and was very ill for the years leading up to it, he said how the loss of size and identity of that size fvcked with his head.

Imagine going from being pretty much the biggest guy you'd see to just a regular guy, must be a massive head fvck no matter what anyone claims.


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## bjaminny (Jan 3, 2015)

DLTBB said:


> Now he is, yeah. He looked great when he was young though. This is him at 18.


 18?!?! Really? Fcuking hell.


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## bonacris (May 20, 2015)

fermanagh24 said:


> I think this is the kind of cycle that is needed to grow like f**k. It seems to be these massive amounts of gear are what a lot of the big dudes are on, but few admit. Guys like Bostin loyd get my respect for being honest.
> 
> I'm starting to think high doses of gear are the only answer for me. 750mgs test and a bit of deca or EQ per week doesn't seem to be having the affect on me it did have. Thinking of coming off everything for a while, save like f**k and just try a big cycle for 6 months to see the outcome.


 Learn to make your own. Srs


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## mmichael (Dec 7, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> If this was the case then why the need for compounds like Mast or Primo? They are very mild in terms of muscle building, but enhance many stacks when added.
> 
> This in mind, I have run test only all off season. However, if I add 400mg of NPP compared to an additional 400mg of test, the difference is certainly enough to notice. Other compounds ALL have different effects, some working better together than others.
> 
> As for shorter cycles (b&c) over long cycles, diminishing returns and health are considerable factors when running longer cycles. I'm not saying b&c is healthy by any means but the side effects are less prominent and health markers are less effected.


 Well Yes, that is what I mean by adding MORE to get more. If u ran 500 test alone, it's good. If u run 500 test + mast, then u get even more. I don't know much about primo or mast, but I do know they need to be ran at high dosages for decent results. I'm simply saying, the more steroids in general u take, the more nitrogen retention u cause and this in turn builds more muscle as long as their is more food avail. There are a lot of middle eastern BBers that put on a ton and a ton of size in very short time cause they ran huge dosages and ate like crazy. It's the combine use of all steroids that help build the muscle. If u ran tren at 750 compared to mast at 750, u most likely would get more size from the tren cycle cause it's stronger in terms of rating and nitrogen retention.

I don't believe in diminishing returns tbh. How can u say that 400mg of tren is weaker during week 15 compared to week 6? ur body is not used to it after this time frame. The steroids can only do so much to build size, if the diet is lagging in terms of hitting that surplus, then the steroids will build little to no mass. It's a common mistake made by juice heads who get so wound of in gear and forget the basics on how to grow. I do agree with health long term though, but I don't think it's going to be a huge diff from ending a blast at week 10 compared to week 15.... health concerns should be when ur blasts run up into the 20-25+ weeks, but who even does that? Either way bloods should be done and misplaced health numbers should be fixed.


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

Just think that when you finish this non sense you must lose 80% of the gains if not 90%.

Sure you will grow like a b1tch, but so much hormonal excess than your natural lvl I think that your body willl find it next to imposssible to maintain such lvl and not raise cortisol insanely, and take it all of you if not reBlast again... Even if you tapper down (Ive never understood the science behind tappering down).

On my behalf, I rather cycle lowerish doses, come of gear after 12 to 15 weeks recover nicely and lose no weight or just water weight and keep moving forward... Ive never exploded but my "natty weight" is higher year after year and Im not going above 500mg of nothing.

Next thing for me is slin on my course.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

fermanagh24 said:


> one of the massive cycles I have heard Bostin loyd speak about is 1.5g test per week, 900mgs EQ per week, 400mgs tren acetate per week, 4iu hgh every morning and 10iu fast acting insulin after training lol!!!!! Sounds mental, but f**k it, let's go for it lol


 This is Prob an average cycle to most folk now :lol:

I would like to try tapering up my dosages starting off at about:

1500mg test

600mg deca

10iu GH eod

slin 4 on 4 off pre workout

orals 4 on 4 off

about week 12, drop the deca and add in Tren e maybe mast e for another 10/12 weeks.

Diet and training would be on point


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

He does talk a lot of s**t but he was bigger at 18 years old than 99% of the forum here. Everyone knows everything here... because you read it somewhere lol


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## rd88 (Nov 25, 2011)

swole troll said:


> except rich's arms are primarily SEO and hes been on 17 years longer than you yet probably has less legit lbm
> 
> there was even rumour a while back from an ex of piano's that hes had some sort of implant in his delts much like a boob job for the shoulders
> 
> ...


 not SEO mate, PMMA. substance porn stars get injected into their privates and women into their arses for added volume.

PMMA particles get encapsulated by collagen and the solution is eventually replaced by collagen within the muscle for added size. While people get this put in their faces in tiny amounts to fill wrinkles or women into the subq tissue of their backsides for added volume, he and some others get it intramuscularly. Brazil and Mexico have a fair few doctors who do this, I believe him when he said he originally had this for his bicep tear but don't believe that he stopped there!

the transformation of his arms can't be achieved by SEO, it doesn't create this look and eventually the scar tissue would have been so bad that it wouldn't have accepted any more oil.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

mmichael said:


> *Well Yes, that is what I mean by adding MORE to get more.* If u ran 500 test alone, it's good. If u run 500 test + mast, then u get even more. I don't know much about primo or mast, but I do know they need to be ran at high dosages for decent results. I'm simply saying, the more steroids in general u take, the more nitrogen retention u cause and this in turn builds more muscle as long as their is more food avail. There are a lot of middle eastern BBers that put on a ton and a ton of size in very short time cause they ran huge dosages and ate like crazy. It's the combine use of all steroids that help build the muscle. If u ran tren at 750 compared to mast at 750, u most likely would get more size from the tren cycle cause it's stronger in terms of rating and nitrogen retention.
> 
> I don't believe in diminishing returns tbh. How can u say that 400mg of tren is weaker during week 15 compared to week 6? ur body is not used to it after this time frame. The steroids can only do so much to build size, if the diet is lagging in terms of hitting that surplus, then the steroids will build little to no mass. It's a common mistake made by juice heads who get so wound of in gear and forget the basics on how to grow. I do agree with health long term though, but I don't think it's going to be a huge diff from ending a blast at week 10 compared to week 15.... health concerns should be when ur blasts run up into the 20-25+ weeks, but who even does that? Either way bloods should be done and misplaced health numbers should be fixed.


 ^^^That is not what I said. I said 400 mg NPP added to my cycle made more difference than adding another 400mg test.

How do explain someone's first cycle not ever being replicated in terms of gains? You build a tolerance to anything you use consistently, heroin, pre-workout, steroids, caffeine. Time off from steroids then back on cycle, you explode again. It is not something to be ignored.

Blasts are short periods, high doses. The guys from the middle east are taking things to an extreme, as the transformations they are producing are scary.


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## Info Junkie (Nov 22, 2013)

Any links to these eastern transformations besides ramy


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## jointhecrazy (Dec 6, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> ^^^That is not what I said. I said 400 mg NPP added to my cycle made more difference than adding another 400mg test.
> 
> How do explain someone's first cycle not ever being replicated in terms of gains? You build a tolerance to anything you use consistently, heroin, pre-workout, steroids, caffeine. Time off from steroids then back on cycle, you explode again. It is not something to be ignored.
> 
> Blasts are short periods, high doses. The guys from the middle east are taking things to an extreme, as the transformations they are producing are scary.





Info Junkie said:


> Any links to these eastern transformations besides ramy


 Yeah can you elaborate on this this is news to me what are they doing differently?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Info Junkie said:


> Any links to these eastern transformations besides ramy





jointhecrazy said:


> Yeah can you elaborate on this this is news to me what are they doing differently?


 Hassan Mostafa


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## jointhecrazy (Dec 6, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> Hassan Mostafa


 Fvckin incredible for 21 im in awe, what is it you beleive these guys are doing differently when you say they are taking things to the extreme? As in they are blasting very high doses for shorter amounts of time or whut?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

jointhecrazy said:


> Fvckin incredible for 21 im in awe, what is it you beleive these guys are doing differently *when you say they are taking things to the extreme? *As in they are blasting very high doses for shorter amounts of time or whut?


 Lots of G4P & Myosin Inhibitors, Legit PEDS, HGH etc. oh and genetics.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jointhecrazy said:


> Fvckin incredible for 21 im in awe, what is it you beleive these guys are doing differently when you say they are taking things to the extreme? As in they are blasting very high doses for shorter amounts of time or whut?


 If I knew I'd do it. At a guess extreme AAS dosing, pharma grade gh, insulin. Genetics in abundance of course.


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## jointhecrazy (Dec 6, 2011)

Starz said:


> Lots of G4P & Myosin Inhibitors, Legit PEDS, HGH etc. oh and genetics.


 Hahaha i just thought g4p was some kind of new peptide and googled it, eyes are burning! But even with severe AAS use that lads physique for 21 is frightening


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

jointhecrazy said:


> Hahaha i just thought g4p was some kind of new peptide and googled it, eyes are burning! But even with severe AAS use that lads physique for 21 is frightening


 hahahaha


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

missing the gallons of synthol he abuses!


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

bjaminny said:


> 18?!?! Really? Fcuking hell.


 great transformation now he looks like a bloated t**t, but very entertaining lols


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> *Blasts are short periods, high doses.* The guys from the middle east are taking things to an extreme, as the transformations they are producing are scary.


 question on these 6 week blast 6 week cruise style protocols

dont you build an abundance of scar tissue running short esters for 6 months of the year?

and if you use long esters during the 6 week blast then surely your 6 cruise isnt really long enough to get back to 'normal' levels with compounds like deca and eq and even test e&c to a certain degree can take 3-4 weeks to drop to a normal level especially at the doses i imagine being employed during a 6 week blast, im guessing that front loading is an absolute must


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

swole troll said:


> question on these 6 week blast 6 week cruise style protocols
> 
> dont you build an abundance of scar tissue running short esters for 6 months of the year?
> 
> and if you use long esters during the 6 week blast then surely your 6 cruise isnt really long enough to get back to 'normal' levels with compounds like deca and eq and even test e&c to a certain degree can take 3-4 weeks to drop to a normal level especially at the doses i imagine being employed during a 6 week blast, im guessing that front loading is an absolute must


 I have only used test e, some test p and some winny throughout my b&c'ing. But as you've pointed out, is the 6 week cruising long enough? Probably not. It is catch 22. I'm playing catch up, and I do not think cycling is the way forward for me, but I still want to remain healthy, not that bodybuilding is healthy.

Highest I've used is 2g, none of which was front loaded. I could employ higher doses for sure and I will, next year.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Blaha's take on Piana's 'cycle'


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## Adz (Jan 29, 2008)

So anyone gonna try it then?


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Adz said:


> So anyone gonna try it then?


 I hope your joking :lol: saying that you're thinking 1.3g is a low dose :lol:

Progressing well though fella I'll give you that


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## herb (Nov 1, 2014)

fair play to the guy, quality GAINZZ off Tha


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

I've created PED programs for a lot of members here. All of which have achieved good results. For more advanced users I use a different compounds, terminating some and starting new compounds etc. Even for advanced users I've helped them gain 15-20lb a cycle, this is the greater end of the spectrum.

However I think he has put very little thought into that. Just my opinion but I would use purely short esters for such a cycle and var for 2 weeks is just a waste IMO.


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Starz said:


> Lots of G4P & Myosin Inhibitors, Legit PEDS, HGH etc. oh and genetics.


 Do myosin inhibitors even exist? If so what are they called and how do people get them? I thought they were just a theory.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

theBEAST2002 said:


> I've created PED programs for a lot of members here. All of which have achieved good results. For more advanced users I use a different compounds, terminating some and starting new compounds etc. Even for advanced users I've helped them gain 15-20lb a cycle, this is the greater end of the spectrum.
> 
> However I think he has put very little thought into that. Just my opinion but I would use purely short esters for such a cycle and var for 2 weeks is just a waste IMO.


 Come on lad, as somebody who designs PED programs you should know that isn't his actual cycle. :lol: Probably can't disclose his actual cycle for legal reasons.


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## over9000 (Dec 21, 2015)

He's entertaining for sure but a liability.

Image the sh!t storm if he winds up in hospital or worse!

All it takes is one high profile idiot to cast a very black cloud over the community.

An news editor would take one look at that freak and get hard over putting his photo at the top of an article.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

DLTBB said:


> Come on lad, as somebody who designs PED programs you should know that isn't his actual cycle. :lol: Probably can't disclose his actual cycle for legal reasons.


 Even if it was his actual cycle. It still lacks thought. It is very easy to design cycles, the only requirement is logical thinking.


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## Acidreflux (Mar 3, 2015)

Weirdo doesn't even know who he is anymore...


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