# shoulders n chest



## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

shoulders -

hey ppl for ma shoulders im doing these (in this order too)

(3 sets, 10 reps, 8 reps, 6 reps)

shouler press (70kg x 6 reps max)

arnolds (25kg x 6 reps max)

mil press (50kg x 6 reps max, dont like pushing too hard on this as i lose form alot)

once ive done my first set on arnolds on 20kg for 10 reps my left shoulder aches v.bad, but this effects the rest of my workout i still push but i think because of this its effecting the weights im pushing out, is this normal though? i mean ive only been training like 7 months ish (btw my left shoulder is back to normal bout an hour after training)

Traps -

BB shrugs (220kg x 6reps max)

thats all i do for my traps, yet this is one of the best formed muscles i have, i dont know any other exercise to hit this? i seen ppl then going to do it with DB's but i dont see the point AT ALL..........

CHEST

just changed my routine a bit

normaly in this order (unless sumbody is using the equipment)

Bench press (100kg 6 reps max)

pec deck (the stack 6 reps max)

cable flys (only 7th weight down 6 reps max) i have never done flys before as i never liked them, i now know you gotta do things u dont ike also, n i actualy enjoy them now lol

anyways yesterday done chest but sumbody was using the bench so i decided to do it last and my 6 rep max was down to 80kg now its because i was too tired i think, my muscles had been done in, but does this mean im pushing to hard on my first two exercises or what? i mean im just trying my hardest all the way round but this was a bit gutting, im a bit lost?

also on them exercises ive posted above, im trying to build a bit of muscle and could do with sum decent compound exercies if you know any i can use? and what should i get rid of? ta


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

In my opinion mate - you are doing to many pressing movements for your shoulders, one pressing exercise done first - I.e a compound exercise should be enough, for example, behind the neck presses - then followed by a couple of lighter exercises like side lateral raises to hit your outer delts and then bent over raises to hit your rear delts.

Barbell shrugs are fine.

Chest routine looks fine though you could try substituting one of your exercises for an incline movement to hit your upper chest. I always prefere doing incline bench's.

The reason your bench was down was simply because the other 2 exercises would have fatigued the muscle - so naturaly your last exercise will be your weakest. You should always try to do the compound exercise first as this takes up more energy than isoltion exercises.


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## Carnivore (Apr 7, 2004)

shoulders play a big part in bench, which is why your lifts were down as ironman said, so id suggset chest first then shoulders.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

I do both on the same day  killz!


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## RAIKEY (Jun 30, 2005)

solid advice from two obviously experienced BB's Deano!

hope your taking this in!

well done lads

Ironman, where do you train mate?.. you remind me of someone.........


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Deano. If you are doing shoulders and chest on the same day this is a big no no in my opinion - far to much for one workout - you need to split these body parts up onto different days. for ex my training split is as follows

sunday - chest, bi's

monday - legs

wednesday - shoulders, tri's

friday - back

This way my shoulders get a chance to recover from my chest workout before i work them directly.


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

RAIKEY said:


> solid advice from two obviously experienced BB's Deano!
> 
> hope your taking this in!
> 
> ...


Train up in newcastle mate.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

where in Newc bud?


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

train at a gym in fenham how about you?


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

I'm training at the Uni gym atm - but was up at Goldstar in Heaton until recently... whats the gym up there in Fenham called?


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Yeh I used to train at rafs in heaton until i moved- still do my chest there though - Fenham gyms has a gay title - Men at Work - not as good as rafs, still good though - plus I live just round the corner.


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

sorry i know this isnt relavent to this thread, but how do u start ur own thread on here trying to work it out drivin me crazy !!!!!!!!!!!


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

Craig660 said:


> sorry i know this isnt relavent to this thread, but how do u start ur own thread on here trying to work it out drivin me crazy !!!!!!!!!!!


Click on the uk-m sign find the header of the topic of thread and at top it says new thread


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

Ironman said:


> Yeh I used to train at rafs in heaton until i moved- still do my chest there though - Fenham gyms has a gay title - Men at Work - not as good as rafs, still good though - plus I live just round the corner.


No doubt i've seen you around then mate  I love Goldstar it has all you want... but i'm in Jesmond atm and getting to it is a pain so i went with the cheaper and closer uni option.... heard about that gym in fenham off a few people actually.... don't really know fenham that well - only go up to the needle exchange there on westgate road...

Sorry to go off topic


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

get my pins from there as well


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Ironman said:


> Deano. If you are doing shoulders and chest on the same day this is a big no no in my opinion - far to much for one workout - you need to split these body parts up onto different days. for ex my training split is as follows
> 
> sunday - chest, bi's
> 
> ...


I would say its down to preference, but I see it as when I do my chest there is defanatly alot of focus on shoulders especially on incline, so i just do both and stick to compoun movements, doesn't have to be alot, I just do

Flat bench

Incline bech (some times with DB's)

Fli's

Shoulder press

side raises (not sure if thats what there called)

thats my day, not long, bu very effective


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## RAIKEY (Jun 30, 2005)

Ash ! do you ever swap this round? ie. shoulders first then chest?

reason i ask is , the second body part , in this case shoulders , is gettin a bit of a bum deal ..

you might not feel it but i,m sure your delts are all but exhausted by the time you get to em....

and flyes knock hell out of the supporting shoulder muscles

to go from a chest routine like this , striaght onto your main shoulder exercise must be a killer.....

not criticising mate, just interested to see if you ever swap it round....

imho, i always seperate my chest and shoulder days with at least one rest day...

but then theres the pre-exhausting theory?.....is it this you is doin?


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

the_gre8t_1ne said:


> I would say its down to preference, but I see it as when I do my chest there is defanatly alot of focus on shoulders especially on incline, so i just do both and stick to compoun movements, doesn't have to be alot, I just do
> 
> Flat bench
> 
> ...


I personally think incline benching targets chest more than flat - but that just my opinion. But your right, when you do chest there is still alot of emphasis on shoulders thats why I beleive you shouldnt train them on the same day. If you train them fresh on there own at the start of a workout you will get alot more out of training them. Also this way you train them twice a week - once directly and once indirectly.

But like you say its down to preference - what ever works best for you.

Just out of interest what is your split?


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

RAIKEY said:


> Ash ! do you ever swap this round? ie. shoulders first then chest?
> 
> reason i ask is , the second body part , in this case shoulders , is gettin a bit of a bum deal ..
> 
> ...


to be honest, I have been doin that routine for the past year now, as i train in a cyclong training routine, as i have found it best compared to traditional workout routines. REason I choose chest and shoulder's and not chest and triceps is that I found that I can work the minor muscle groups (bi's and tri's to full failur on other day's accompanied by with other parts of the bod. So when I when i did chest and tri's I use to find that my delts would get fatigued and not be able to fully stimulate my tri's, and on shoulder day's same thing, so when i switched to chest and shoulder's i felt I was gettin full stimulation on chest and detls, but that just wokred for me. I am actually following the musclenow training routine, not sure if any of u have heared of it, but it wirks very well and on a cycling training routine so you are constantly shocking the muscle (the theory behind it) I will make a thread and post it up and see what you think of it.


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

nope i do a 6 day split like this (2 days cardio)

mon - shoulders + traps

tues - back + tri's

weds - cardio

thurs - chest + bi's

fri - legs

sat - rest

sun - cardio


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

at the end of the day, it all comes down to overloading each targeted muscle group and getting full stimulation


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

aye, done back today

another question, what exercises hit lats (lats are the things that look like wings under arms right? i tried them wide grip pull ups CANT DO THEM but the pull downs where u lean back and pull the weight to your chest today i reped the stack which not many ppl can do so bit lost wots goin on haha, asnyways any compounds for this muscle at all anyone? ta)


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

yeah, bent over rows m8! gr8 exersise, combine that with wide grip pull ups or lat pull downs, ur set!


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Deano! said:


> aye, done back today
> 
> another question, what exercises hit lats (lats are the things that look like wings under arms right? i tried them wide grip pull ups CANT DO THEM but the pull downs where u lean back and pull the weight to your chest today i reped the stack which not many ppl can do so bit lost wots goin on haha, asnyways any compounds for this muscle at all anyone? ta)


u aint doing the lat pulldowns right mate imo... if u cant do wide grip chins but u can stack the lat pull down machine somethign is amiss... wide grip chins over lat pull down any day of the week for me mate


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

well i duno, i weigh 17stone though????? lol n struggled with stack but just done it today, but cant do one rep on chins, aggrovating, when ppl say bent over rows, is this the exercise im currently doing where i stay bent forward just raising the BB to my stomach and back down?


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Deano! said:


> well i duno, i weigh 17stone though????? lol n struggled with stack but just done it today, but cant do one rep on chins, aggrovating, when ppl say bent over rows, is this the exercise im currently doing where i stay bent forward just raising the BB to my stomach and back down?


dunno dude... i weigh 16stone and can wide grip chin 5x10 reps with a piece of ****... but cant stack the lat pull down machine with good form


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Bent over rows (if u like it, why not rep me:rolleye11   )


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

the_gre8t_1ne said:


> at the end of the day, it all comes down to overloading each targeted muscle group and getting full stimulation


Correct!! Overload=hypertrophy

I personally do push/pull/legs......

chest/shoulders/triceps all on same day....

last workout was:

2 working sets of Incline BB

2 working sets of DB press

1 working set of tricep extensions


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

DB said:


> dunno dude... i weigh 16stone and can wide grip chin 5x10 reps with a piece of ****... but cant stack the lat pull down machine with good form


with regards to this i always thought you hit a muscle with an exercise... you've hit it... but i've just started doing chins for the first time (16st also) and noticed DOMS right at the lower part of the lats - near the incirsions.... never felt this with pulldowns..

imo its a different mind muscle connection...


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

i cant even do one rep though, so im just going to keep working on this 2-3 times a week till i can rep it out a lil

thanks for the help guys


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## chrisgatguis (Nov 14, 2005)

could do with a spotter to just help u up slightly or at my gym theres a thing with a counter balance weight on it to help u up which u kneel on. i cant do it without the counter balance but workin my way up (or down) to zero


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## Deano! (Aug 6, 2004)

kool mate, nah my gym is accient, but only free-weight gym round ere till this new one opens in jan like


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## Carlos901 (Nov 5, 2004)

early on in this thread i seen people talking about muscle groups, make sure you do the big muscles first as well. As for volume and intensity, these are inversly related, the more volume, the less intensity and vice versa. I like high intensity my self. For reps and sets, shoot to fail between 6-10 reps and if you are training intensly do only 5-8 sets per body part (more sets for the bigger muscles, less for the smaller ones).

Your big muscle groups are chest, back and upper legs


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