# Body fat%



## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

An estimated body fat% please? I'm indecisive on whether to cut or not? I've seen a lot of post like this with some good advice. I've been bulking since I restarted the gym since about October after not training for about 3 years, didn't train much before, as you can tell!! I train 3 to 4 times a week mostly doing compound movements with isolation chuckled in. I stupidly done a tbol only cycle with no effect at all or nothing to notice! I'd like to think I stick to a good diet and my training is good. I currently weigh 81kg and eating 3400 kcal a day. I'm wanting to cut because in my head I feel it will look like I go to the gym at the moment it dosnt. Any advice appreciated.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

30+%


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Smitch said:


> 30+%


 Christ i didnt relise it was that high


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

25 - 30+

Check here if you have a fabric tape measure.

https://www.fitmatic.com/c/calculators


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Sparkey said:


> 25 - 30+
> 
> Check here if you have a fabric tape measure.
> 
> https://www.fitmatic.com/c/calculators


 25.45 cheers for the link, i think this has made my descision easier whether to bulk or cut. Thanks again.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Too high to bulk IMO.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

c4nsy said:


> Christ i didnt relise it was that high


 its not 30%

you arent that fat lmao


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Cut.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

What were your main lifts in October and what are they now?

What was your weight in October?


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Robbie said:


> What were your main lifts in October and what are they now?
> 
> What was your weight in October?


 I cant really comment on main lifts as i never do 1rm but i started on 60kg 3x8 and worked up to 80kg 3x5 on bench. Started on 80kg for deads worked up to 120kg3x5 squats 60kg upto 85kg 3x8-10. I was adding 2.5kg every session, and at the moment still doing this programme. I was 77kg in october.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

What programme are you doing?

You really need to diet down, to continue gaining strength will be hard but it's still possible. You might need to diet for a few months, reset for a few weeks then go at it again. At your current bodyfat level if you continue to eat in a surplus you're just going to put on more fat.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

A lower upper routine. What i dont understand is that i eat a clean diet and it is clean 6 days a week maybe 5 and binge on the friday/saturday(big pack of crisp, big bar of chocolate) ive read a cheat day is good for you. Ive told myself if i cut then ill go 2 weeks clean eating then have a cheat day would this be ok? I can lose weight easyish but i just go from fat to skinny!


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Skinny october vs fat now theres got to be some muscle somewhere ☹


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

c4nsy said:


> Skinny october vs fat now theres got to be some muscle somewhere ☹
> 
> View attachment 143024


 Youve deffo put a very small amount of muscle on, but its hidden with fat.

Looks like you were:

1. a little fluffy when you started bulking (although might just be deconditioned)

2. bulked way, WAY too hard.

Cut for a few months losing 2lb a week until you are lean would be the best next step tbh - make sure you are eating 0.8-1g of protein per lb of bodywieght whilst cutting. Cheat meals are fine just dont binge, youll regret it.

Also focus on your delts + traps a bit more IMO, the first picture you posted they seem underdeveloped.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Don't get hung up on %ages. Its what you look like that is the deciding factor

No question: cut, you will look better

3400cals is too much. Use a TDEE for a starting guide


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## dbol Kid (Apr 13, 2013)

Deffo cut, try and get lowish bf% so you have visable abs and then slowly bulk up, aiming for 1lb per week gains.

If you bulk too quick your going to put on too much fat again


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Sparkey said:


> 25 - 30+
> 
> Check here if you have a fabric tape measure.
> 
> https://www.fitmatic.com/c/calculators


 seems good, mine came out at 11 - 12% which I'd say is about correct. .....Or 25% for BMI


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

JohhnyC said:


> seems good, mine came out at 11 - 12% which I'd say is about correct. .....Or 25% for BMI


 I found it the best of all the online ones.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Youve deffo put a very small amount of muscle on, but its hidden with fat.
> 
> Looks like you were:
> 
> ...


 Cheers ill take it on board. What sort of routine would be best for when im cutting? Up the reps? Im guessing rather than low reps, or just mix it up?


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Sparkey said:


> I found it the best of all the online ones.


 Confirming what I suspected. I need a 31in waist to get to below 10% bf. Good to have a simple target


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

JohhnyC said:


> Don't get hung up on %ages. Its what you look like that is the deciding factor
> 
> No question: cut, you will look better
> 
> 3400cals is too much. Use a TDEE for a starting guide


 I used the tdee guide and it come back at 3200 i only upped it once i wasnt gaining anymore. Im a bricky by trade so i put that i was active (supposedly) and thats what it came back as.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

c4nsy said:


> I used the tdee guide and it come back at 3200 i only upped it once i wasnt gaining anymore. Im a bricky by trade so i put that i was active (supposedly) and thats what it came back as.


 ah ok, its just a guide of course.

The real test is that you got fat so you need to reduce the cals despite what the TDEE says. It overestimates it for me by about 300 cals


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

JohhnyC said:


> ah ok, its just a guide of course.
> 
> The real test is that you got fat so you need to reduce the cals despite what the TDEE says. It overestimates it for me by about 300 cals


 Ha ha cheers pal ill keep that in mind


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## Mully (Jul 1, 2016)

Sparkey said:


> 25 - 30+
> 
> Check here if you have a fabric tape measure.
> 
> https://www.fitmatic.com/c/calculators


 32% here. so shocked I almost spat my mcdonalds out


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

You've gained a decent amount of strength across your main lifts so no doubt there will have been some muscle gained. A good amount of fat was gained in the process judging from the pictures. If I was you I would do a short, intense cut and aim to get as lean (or leaner) as you were in the before picture and then concentrate on bulking again. Only next time keep a closer eye on your calorie intake and try to use a smaller surplus so you don't gain as much fat.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I think it's worth bearing in mind the photos show total fat gain over a period of about 9 months. So although calories were too high overall I don't think they were too wildly wrong either.

Definitely cut now though and for the future I wouldn't personally bulk for such a long period in one go as a way to stop total body fat getting too high.

You'll get better over time at judging how to adjust calories to slowly gain weight without too much fat gain. This is easier the more accurately you're prepared to track your diet. Personally I also find as little as a 50 kcal increase when weight gain stalls can be enough to get things moving again.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

DLTBB said:


> You've gained a decent amount of strength across your main lifts so no doubt there will have been some muscle gained. A good amount of fat was gained in the process judging from the pictures. If I was you I would do a short, intense cut and aim to get as lean (or leaner) as you were in the before picture and then concentrate on bulking again. Only next time keep a closer eye on your calorie intake and try to use a smaller surplus so you don't gain as much fat.


 I think my main problem was that i was going by the scales rather than how i looked i was aiming for 85kg and as quick as possible, lesson learned! When you say an intense cut do you mean dropping the calories alot? im currently eating 2800kcal ( tracking on mfp) so about 600kcal than i was before. Cheers


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> I think it's worth bearing in mind the photos show total fat gain over a period of about 9 months. So although calories were too high overall I don't think they were too wildly wrong either.
> 
> Definitely cut now though and for the future I wouldn't personally bulk for such a long period in one go as a way to stop total body fat getting too high.
> 
> You'll get better over time at judging how to adjust calories to slowly gain weight without too much fat gain. This is easier the more accurately you're prepared to track your diet. Personally I also find as little as a 50 kcal increase when weight gain stalls can be enough to get things moving again.


 Thanks for the input, i think its a lesson learnt. I weigh all my food and track it daily on my fitness pal so like to be as accurate as i can. Weekends seem to be my downfall, just need to approach it different. I would really binge, so weekends for me need to be more strict with a healthier approach. When you cut do you change training routine? More reps? Or does this not really matter? Thanks


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## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

c4nsy said:


> Thanks for the input, i think its a lesson learnt. I weigh all my food and track it daily on my fitness pal so like to be as accurate as i can. Weekends seem to be my downfall, just need to approach it different. I would really binge, so weekends for me need to be more strict with a healthier approach. When you cut do you change training routine? More reps? Or does this not really matter? Thanks


 When cutting do what you usually do but gradually reduce the volume but aim to keep the same weight on the bar


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Another question. Whilst cutting how often do you have a cheat meal. Im into my second week of dieting, no slip ups yet eating around 2300kcal never more. And would the cheat meal effect if i still stayed in a calorie deflict? Thanks


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

c4nsy said:


> Another question. Whilst cutting how often do you have a cheat meal. Im into my second week of dieting, no slip ups yet eating around 2300kcal never more. And would the cheat meal effect if i still stayed in a calorie deflict? Thanks


 If you're sticking to a calorie total it is not a 'cheat', you're sticking to your plan.

Are you losing weight?


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> If you're sticking to a calorie total it is not a 'cheat', you're sticking to your plan.
> 
> Are you losing weight?


 Yes i started at 80.9kg down to 79.6, so steady so far. Ah i see, was thinking that if it was a really fatty/high carb meal it would be no good. Ive dropped alot of calories i was originally aiming for 2800kcal, 600kcal less than i was currently having but feeling full on 2300kcal do you think thats too much to begin with??


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

DLTBB said:


> You've gained a decent amount of strength across your main lifts so no doubt there will have been some muscle gained. A good amount of fat was gained in the process judging from the pictures. If I was you I would do a short, intense cut and aim to get as lean (or leaner) as you were in the before picture and then concentrate on bulking again. Only next time keep a closer eye on your calorie intake and try to use a smaller surplus so you don't gain as much fat.


 Couldn't this be hormone related, also what weekly weight gain do you aim for when bulking.

This seems to happen to me when I try to bulk I just get fat


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's far too early for you to be thinking about cutting or bulking.. if you've only been at it since October.

Don't mean to sound like a dick but what would you realistically be cutting back to right now? Skinny at best?

I'd be eating a smidge over maintenance and reviewing after 6 months of consistency.. IMO people spend too long too early being drawn into the yo-yo cycle of bulk and cut.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

c4nsy said:


> Yes i started at 80.9kg down to 79.6, so steady so far. Ah i see, was thinking that if it was a really fatty/high carb meal it would be no good. Ive dropped alot of calories i was originally aiming for 2800kcal, 600kcal less than i was currently having but feeling full on 2300kcal do you think thats too much to begin with??


 I'd be aiming to lost about 1.5 lb per week in your position I think.

Eat enough protein (1g/lb is reasonable) and stick to an appropriate calorie total and you'll get results. Try to eat a broadly healthy diet simply because it's good for you but allowing yourself some more enjoyable food too is absolutely fine, provided it does lead to you eating extra calories.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

andyboro said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's far too early for you to be thinking about cutting or bulking.. if you've only been at it since October.
> 
> Don't mean to sound like a dick but what would you realistically be cutting back to right now? Skinny at best?
> 
> I'd be eating a smidge over maintenance and reviewing after 6 months of consistency.. IMO people spend too long too early being drawn into the yo-yo cycle of bulk and cut.


 Trouble is he's already done the bulking and gaining a fair amount of fat part, hence the advice to focus on fat loss now. This would be a good idea for general health, as well as I think for BB purposes


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

andyboro said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's far too early for you to be thinking about cutting or bulking.. if you've only been at it since October.
> 
> Don't mean to sound like a dick but what would you realistically be cutting back to right now? Skinny at best?
> 
> I'd be eating a smidge over maintenance and reviewing after 6 months of consistency.. IMO people spend too long too early being drawn into the yo-yo cycle of bulk and cut.


 I get what your saying, my reasoning for the cut is to lower bf as much as i can and probably will be skinny. But im hoping when i gradually put the weight back on bf wont be so high (hoping). If i was to stay just over maintence would i still get my bf down?


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

c4nsy said:


> I get what your saying, my reasoning for the cut is to lower bf as much as i can and probably will be skinny. But im hoping when i gradually put the weight back on bf wont be so high (hoping). If i was to stay just over maintence would i still get my bf down?


 No that will take a long time, just cut and try bulking again.

This is what I'm trying as I did what you did when bulking


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

c4nsy said:


> If i was to stay just over maintence would i still get my bf down?


 No, by definition. Maintenance calories are what you need to maintain weight, not lose it.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Ultrasonic said:


> Trouble is he's already done the bulking and gaining a fair amount of fat part, hence the advice to focus on fat loss now. This would be a good idea for general health, as well as I think for BB purposes


 I see what you're saying but this sounds like the start of a perpetual yo-yo from here, judging by the responses, it sounds like he's looking for that fictional 'quick/easy' route rather than serving his time.

I may be wrong, but it's a common pattern for new trainers. Personally too, I don't feel anyone this new needs to consider that cut/bulk cycle.. if he eats and trains consistently then for the moment, results will come.

All Imo/ime of course, there are many ways of doing this.. I can only talk from what I did wrong for soo many years lol


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

andyboro said:


> I see what you're saying but this sounds like the start of a perpetual yo-yo from here, judging by the responses, it sounds like he's looking for that fictional 'quick/easy' route rather than serving his time.
> 
> I may be wrong, but it's a common pattern for new trainers. Personally too, I don't feel anyone this new needs to consider that cut/bulk cycle.. if he eats and trains consistently then for the moment, results will come.
> 
> All Imo/ime of course, there are many ways of doing this.. I can only talk from what I did wrong for soo many years lol


 Partly our different points of view come from our different backgrounds IIRC. I'm naturally skinny, and for people like me a common mistake is to try to gain muscle without gaining fat, and making zero fat ad making zero gains as a result. I think I'm right in thinking you used to be rather overweight? (Please don't be offended if I'm wrong - just trying to remember what I think you've said rather than a photo.) For people who are it's a much more viable option to rely on stored fat to fuel muscle growth for a while.

FWIW my personal take on the best long term approach is for people to get lean enough to at least get some abdominal definition (i.e. definitely be able to see obliques but not 'ripped'), and to never get too far from this point. Having got this lean makes it easier to judge fat gain and therefore to not get too fat whilst 'bulking' (I prefer the term gaining phase). This is all from a natty POV of course.

This is separate to the health argument. The OP is already has more than a healthy amount of body fat and so if he were to focus on gaining weight from here this is only going to get worse. A case could perhaps be made for a recomp but personally I don't like this idea as he could look better much faster by simply focusing on body fat.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Ultrasonic said:


> Partly our different points of view come from our different backgrounds IIRC. I'm naturally skinny, and for people like me a common mistake is to try to gain muscle without gaining fat, and making zero fat ad making zero gains as a result. I think I'm right in thinking you used to be rather overweight? (Please don't be offended if I'm wrong - just trying to remember what I think you've said rather than a photo.) For people who are it's a much more viable option to rely on stored fat to fuel muscle growth for a while.
> 
> FWIW my personal take on the best long term approach is for people to get lean enough to at least get some abdominal definition (i.e. definitely be able to see obliques but not 'ripped'), and to never get too far from this point. Having got this lean makes it easier to judge fat gain and therefore to not get too fat whilst 'bulking' (I prefer the term gaining phase). This is all from a natty POV of course.
> 
> This is separate to the health argument. The OP is already has more than a healthy amount of body fat and so if he were to focus on gaining weight from here this is only going to get worse. A case could perhaps be made for a recomp but personally I don't like this idea as he could look better much faster by simply focusing on body fat.


 This, hormonally he is in a terrible place for muscle gain right now. If he leans out he will then get a kickstart when he switches into a surplus. An excess of calories now is only going to make things worse.

He just needs to realise its a marathon not a sprint and laying the right foundations NOW will make things so much easier in the future.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Robbie said:


> Why would it effect me hormonally now? I now know where i went wrong and my problem is i want to see change on the scales every time (not going to happen) . Once i get down to desired weight it will feel like a fresh start for me and then ill push on gradually. Thanks for all the inputs made it alot clearer for me.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Not sure what happened with the above post ?


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

The more bodyfat you have, the easier it is to store bodyfat and the harder to gain muscle. So dieting back will sort you out and put you in the right place to start gaining muscle


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Just get lean and then bulk mate. If you bulk now you'll just end up looking crap because you're already holding a good amount of fat around your midsection.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

DLTBB said:


> Just get lean and then bulk mate. If you bulk now you'll just end up looking crap because you're already holding a good amount of fat around your midsection.


 Been browsing through your journal mate, very interesting. I think youve got nearly everyone on the granola and natural yoghurt ha ha. Cracking read, you seem to have had a good physique from a young age. Ive always been skinny or overweight. Holding fat on midsection which seems to be common. Im 30 now so really want to hit diet and training hard! When i finally get round to bulking im defo going to get a journal started, help push me on.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

c4nsy said:


> Been browsing through your journal mate, very interesting. I think youve got nearly everyone on the granola and natural yoghurt ha ha. Cracking read, you seem to have had a good physique from a young age. Ive always been skinny or overweight. Holding fat on midsection which seems to be common. Im 30 now so really want to hit diet and training hard! When i finally get round to bulking im defo going to get a journal started, help push me on.


 I have trained since I was in my teens mate so I've got a lot of lifting years under my belt for somebody who is only mid 20's, I didn't always have muscle though! Yeah, you should do, having a log/journal is a good way of tracking your lifts/weight, keeping you accountable and getting feedback/input from a load of knowledgeable strangers from around the world. Start one now!


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

DLTBB said:


> I have trained since I was in my teens mate so I've got a lot of lifting years under my belt for somebody who is only mid 20's, I didn't always have muscle though! Yeah, you should do, having a log/journal is a good way of tracking your lifts/weight, keeping you accountable and getting feedback/input from a load of knowledgeable strangers from around the world. Start one now!


 Ill get on it this weekend


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

I've just used some bf calipers I've got and its showing that my bf is 21% after using it on my upper leg, chest and waist. So I've been back on fitmatic and I was reading the bmi which was 25 not my bf% which shows 20.38%. So I'm hoping it is this not the 25% - 30% that was being said. I'm just after some clarification of how accurate these are? I've post up another pic from a diff angle as I'm not sure first pic made me look fatter or I am just a fat cnut


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

c4nsy said:


> I've just used some bf calipers I've got and its showing that my bf is 21% after using it on my upper leg, chest and waist. So I've been back on fitmatic and I was reading the bmi which was 25 not my bf% which shows 20.38%. So I'm hoping it is this not the 25% - 30% that was being said. I'm just after some clarification of how accurate these are? I've post up another pic from a diff angle as I'm not sure first pic made me look fatter or I am just a fat cnut
> View attachment 143434


 Not very accurate is the short answer (and nor of course are anyone's guesses based on a photo!)

For a detailed answer read this:

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-5-the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-parts-5-and-6-skinfolds-and-dual-energy-x-ray-absorptiometry-dexa/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-5-skinfolds/

Ultimately the actual number is irrelevant and I'd just stop thinking about it.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Not very accurate is the short answer (and nor of course are anyone's guesses based on a photo!)
> 
> For a detailed answer read this:
> 
> ...


 I get obsessive lol. Good read that, so really going by observation is the more accurate.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

c4nsy said:


> I get obsessive lol. Good read that, so really going by observation is the more accurate.


 That depends what you mean. Just looking at someone and guessing at their body fat percentage certainly isn't going to be more accurate!

I use calipers to track progress but not to tell me a body fat percentage. Ultimately the number is irrelevant and what most if not all people actually care about is what they look like.


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

After 7 weeks of cutting can you give me an estimated bf%? Just so I know where abouts i am. Cheers


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

I'd guess a chunk less than before, 18-20% now, abs start to show properly at 14-16% and yours are just hidden still, it's also a guess as back fat can complicate stuff

to be honest it's obvious your a fair bit leaner than before, good going!


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Cut mate and don't worry about bf% it means nothing just go on what you look like


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

Around 20% at a guess. Just continue to cut until you happy enough to start to lean bulk


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Errr... have you photoshopped that picture to make your legs look bigger??? Top of leg near hand on left side of photo can't be right can it? Are you testing to see if anyone's paying attention?

As for body fat nobody can have any meaningful idea as I posted above. You're definitely getting leaner though :thumbup1: .


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## c4nsy (Aug 23, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Errr... have you photoshopped that picture to make your legs look bigger??? Top of leg near hand on left side of photo can't be right can it? Are you testing to see if anyone's paying attention?
> 
> As for body fat nobody can have any meaningful idea as I posted above. You're definitely getting leaner though :thumbup1: .


 Haha i thought that when i posted it up, its just my tv unit. I was impressed though, always wanted one leg bigger than the other.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> Errr... have you photoshopped that picture to make your legs look bigger??? Top of leg near hand on left side of photo can't be right can it? Are you testing to see if anyone's paying attention?
> 
> As for body fat nobody can have any meaningful idea as I posted above. You're definitely getting leaner though :thumbup1: .


 Think it's just a combination of a shadow and the grey background lol


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