# Do I even fu**ing lift brahs? Help!



## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

Easy guys, been lurking for a while but just signed up, feeling pretty demotivated at the moment and could do with some advice.

I just don't seem to be gaining size. Strength is going up most weeks, however the size is pretty much non existent. I'm bulking at around 4000 calories which has seen me add 0.3-0.5 lb a week (the supposed ideal progress rate), however I feel it's mainly fat gains.

I feel so fu**ing fed up it's unreal. I don't even look like I lift weights, probably carrying too much fat which I could live with if I had huge lifts, but I don't. I spend so much time weighing out foods, planning my days around training etc and I don't see any results, feel like fu**ing it all off and just eating what I want, and gaining an extra 5-6 hours a week to do what I want with.

*Stats*

Height: 5'10
Weight: 200 lbs

*1RMs:*

Bench: 110 kg
Deadlift 150 kg
OHP: 75kg

*Routine*

I've been following a very slightly modified Coolciada PPL routine for the last few months. This is what I do:


*Monday - Push*Flat Bench Press 3x5Overheard Press 3x5Incline Barbell Press 3x5Dips 3x5-8DB Side Raise 3x-10-12Tricep Pushdowns 3x-10-12
Shrugs 3x-10-12
 *Tuesday - Pull*Deadlifts 3x5Lat Pulldowns 3x8-10Seated Rows 3x8-10Barbell Curls Wide Grip 4x10-12Cable Hammer Curls 3x10-12Face Pulls 3x10-12 *Wednesday - Legs / Abs*Goblet Squats 4x10Leg Press 3x8-10Leg Extensions 3x10-12Hamstring Curls 3x10-12Calf Raises 4x10-12I also include some ab work on this day *Thursday - Push *
Flat Bench Press 3x8-10Overheard Press 3x8-10Incline Barbell Press 3x8-10Close Grip Bench Press 3x5-8DB Side Raise 3x-10-12Tricep Pushdowns 3x-10-12
Shrugs 3x-10-12

 *Friday - Pull*Barbell Row 3x5Lat Pulldowns 3x8-10Seated Rows 3x8-10Barbell Curls Close Grip 4x-10-12Cable Hammer Curls 3x10-12Face Pulls 3x10-12


I aim for small increments in weight each session, or if this isn't manageable, more reps, so constant progression. 90 seconds rest on the smaller muscle groups with up to 4 minutes on the bigger compounds. I don't bother with a second leg session as this gives me weekends free, and quite often I'll spend one of the days out on the bike, or a long walk etc. I don't squat due to really bad hip / ankle inflexibility which I'm trying to work on, but 8-10 hours a day sat behind a computer / driving, doesn't seem to be improving much.

*Diet*

As mentioned I'm on around 4000-4200 calories a day. Normally works out at around 450g carbs, 250g protein and 130g fats. Here's an example of today's intake:




     *Calories**Carbs**Protein**Fat**Breakfast:*    100g scottish oats36061118.145g whey protein1832.2536.63*Mid Morning:*    10g brazil nuts70.10.291.636.810g cashew nuts58.22.651.94.310g walnuts69.60.31.476.810g mixed peanuts61.61.772.784.6510g cashew nuts58.22.651.94.310g mixed peanuts61.61.772.784.6510g cashew nuts58.22.651.94.3*Lunch:*    200g jacket potato2816360.4cheese / beans mix400442014*Pre Workout:*    100g scottish oats36061118.130g whey protein1221.524.42*Post Workout:*    30g dextrose118.829.70030g maltodextrin118.829.70045g whey protein1832.2536.63*Dinner / Evening Snacks:*    4 hasselback potatoes206364.43.4Asda hot cajun chicken & rice38149287.9half red onion garlic flatbread39052.512.913.83 eggs234022.516.2300g mixed veg102218.41.21 tin tuna1300251.2*Totals**4007.1**464.98**261.16**118.1*

So, UKM, what the hell am I doing wrong? A proven routine with progression, a reasonably clean diet with complex carbs, adequate protein and healthy fats but still nothing?


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## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

If your gaining strength and you are putting weight on( even if very slowly) what more do you want?


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## mantz1525 (Mar 18, 2012)

I'd add more proper protein, ie meat


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

gethenchordietrying said:


> Easy guys, been lurking for a while but just signed up, feeling pretty demotivated at the moment and could do with some advice.
> 
> I just don't seem to be gaining size. Strength is going up most weeks, however the size is pretty much non existent. I'm bulking at around 4000 calories which has seen me add 0.3-0.5 lb a week (the supposed ideal progress rate), however I feel it's mainly fat gains.
> 
> ...


Put a pic up mate


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

Appreciate I'm gaining weight but it feels as if it's just going straight to my belly. There's not much point in dialling back on the calories as I wouldn't be gaining anything then? I was expecting to gain a little fat but not all of it, especially keeping things slow at 0.3-0.5 lbs a week.

Regarding more protein, is that really necessary? For example, some days might include a steak for dinner and some chicken for lunch which takes me to around 300g a day.

I've just taken some photos, turned out s**t but hopefully you'll get an idea.


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

Just found an old photo from this time last year, feel even worse now haha. Different lighting unfortunately, but you can see there's slightly more definition around the lats and f**k all difference elsewhere...


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

You do loook like you lift brah.

You are natty also, either go on PEDS or put up with it for a few years


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Honestly it doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong other than perhaps eating a little too much, and expecting to gain muscle faster than is realistic for most. Look at 200g of chicken. It's quite a lot of muscle to be expecting to gain in a week.


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

I know progress doesn't happen overnight, I'm in this for the long haul but can you look at the comparison photo above and honestly say that's worthwhile for a year?

So the general thoughts are that I'm doing everything alright and I should just be patient? I was thinking of continuing the bulk until I got to around 210 lbs (hopefully with some decent strength gains) then maybe do a small cut to take me through to the start of summer.

It also doesn't help going on bodybuilding forums looking for advice where every ****er looks bigger than you :lol:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

It does look like you lift BTW!

How many long have you been training for, and how have your lifts progressed in the year between your last two photos?

Now I realise you've probably been training longer than I first thought, and having a proper look at your routine, I suspect changing your training is the way to improve things here. Mostly by introducing more rest days so you aren't training for five days straight. If you want a suggestion I'd give this a go, training Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday:

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

Hmmmmmm! Those photos were taken after tonight's pull session, so probably a bit more "pumped" than I'd look usually!

I've been training for a few years but taken it more seriously over the last 18 months.

I was actually doing that routine this time last year, and to be honest feel I've gained more from the Coolcicada PPL. My leg day is pretty light (knee injuries) which I guess helps to avoid overtraining.

Looking back to this time last year I've added 20-25kg to my bench, and the same again to my OHP. Can't measure deadlift progress as I wasn't doing them at the time.


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

I'll give that a go, maybe bump up the fats slightly too? Thing is, I think a good old carb pump makes me feel a little better about myself!

It does sound like a lot of calories, I started off on 3500 but wasn't gaining anything. The last few weeks I've been stalling on 4000 so bumped it up to 4200 and was going to monitor that for a few weeks.

Perhaps once I get to 210 I'll be "thicker" and then can look at cutting down and showing some muscle (what's there anyway) :lol:

Considered a cycle but not keen on the thought of injections and from what I've read orals are a waste of time. Maybe keep doing what I'm doing for another year and reassess, I'm sure I can't be at my natural peak already? Would give me plenty of time to read up on what's what too.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

My inclination here is still to look towards reducing volume/getting more rest in some way, to see if this allows you to increase the weights you are lifting more rapidly. Got to go now but I'll have a think about this...

Oh, and this is trivial, but why are you doing shrugs on your push day? That's a pull exercise.


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

I did actually used to include shrugs on my pull days but recently reviewed the program and noticed they were on push days. Will probably end up switching them back to be honest.



> Shrugs on push day are personal preference. And it balances out the amount of exercises (6 on each day


I did think about switching the Thursday push session back to 3x5 on the compounds, I think it'd be optimal for strength gains however the higher rep range on that day is probably beneficial for hypertrophy that I'm after?

I've been incorporating rest pause sets into the odd session here and there for the 3x5 compounds and have noticed good gains in strength from that.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I did actually used to include shrugs on my pull days but recently reviewed the program and noticed they were on push days. Will probably end up switching them back to be honest.
> 
> I did think about switching the Thursday push session back to 3x5 on the compounds, I think it'd be optimal for strength gains however the higher rep range on that day is probably beneficial for hypertrophy that I'm after?
> 
> I've been incorporating rest pause sets into the odd session here and there for the 3x5 compounds and have noticed good gains in strength from that.


If you want to keep doing shrugs on a push day I would move them to Thursday. It's doing shrugs the day before deadlifts that I particularly think is a bad idea.

I definitely think you want to keep your mix of rep ranges. If anything I would actually be tempted to increase the rep range for your heavier work to 6-8, and make your higher rep range 10-12 if hypertrophy is all you're really after. The sort of 'strength' you are interested in is the sort you can do for reps, not your 1 RM.

But if you haven't been following your current routine for that long and you feel it's working better for you, stick with it. One way to do this while giving yourself more rest would be to cycle P,P,L,Rest and repeat, either still taking weekends off or not depending how it suits you.

If either @Natty Steve'o or @Mingster had time to comment they'd probably have different and useful opinions on your training.

One final thought, and this is an individual thing, but you might find you feel you look bigger if you drop some body fat.

Regarding lots of the physiques you see on here bear in mind that most people use some form of PEDs to achieve their look.


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## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

Your diet looks pretty good and so does your training....it leaves only really one thing.

You wont like the sound of it but your not training hard enough...do you go balls out every session? or just do enough to get your sets done?

You need to push yourself harder mate.

As for the pictures i think you are being harsh on yourself, you have a good base and you do look like you lift :thumbup1:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

How long have you been lifting mate?


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

I've been lifting on and off for a few years but taking it seriously (sticking to a routine, tracking foods etc) for the last 18 months.

I would say I give each workout my all yeah, I feel like I haven't accomplished anything if I do the same as the last workout so will always strive for a few extra reps or more weight if I can. Constant progression.

I go heavy enough to typically manage my first then have the second / third sets where I really have to push through. Lately I've been throwing in a few rest pause sets into my strength compounds and have found I've been increasing the weight quicker. Try and do this every other week as to avoid exhausting myself. I did this on a couple of the 8-10 sets and found I was feeling it the next day, which was nice, I know DOMS isn't a sign of progression but I never ever feel sore.

I might try the day off after PPL on the weeks that I won't be doing anything on the weekends (so I can still get the 5 workouts in) and see if that makes a difference. My sleep isn't great overall really which no doubt has an effect, a combination of nightmare neighbours and a lot of stress unfortunately.

Really appreciate all the comments and suggestions, cheers lads.


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## IDntEvenLiftCuz (Feb 21, 2015)

Your lifts are s**t, get stronger and yout physique will improve. Also y u no squat?


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Milan wasn't built in a week


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## cris (Apr 11, 2012)

just my opinion,but if you are natty i think you are training too much,and not giving your body time to build,sometimes less is more
go back to the basics for 6 to 8 weeks,then evaluate from there


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## The Beast (Mar 10, 2005)

As a fellow natty, my advice is to be patient. Gains are slow and hard earned. I've been training on and off for 10 years, the last 3 of which, have been my most successful and I'm a decent size, but unfortunately, steroids are the only way that most normal blokes achieve amazing physiques.

You need to sort your mind set out in my opinion. You're bulking, so you will gain fat as well as muscle.....accept it. When you cut, the gains will be visible, but that's not your current objective. Personally, I bulk only for limited periods (6 to 12 weeks) to make sure I don't ever get too fat......I hate cutting, but you need to work out what is best for you.

I would also question if you are training hard enough. I see lots of guys who go through the motions in the gym.....they think they're working hard, but lack intensity and mind-muscle connection. Treat every set and rep seriously and push hard. You should be exhausted when you come out and if you're diet is good, you will make the gains you are looking for. You're lifts are not bad, but the size will only come when you get into the advanced / elite weight range for the major lifts.

I also agree that you need to reduce the amount of whey you eat and take in more protein from real food. It's hard when you're eating all those calories but its much better for you.

Keep at it and don't get disheartened.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

The Beast said:


> As a fellow natty, my advice is to be patient. Gains are slow and hard earned. I've been training on and off for 10 years, the last 3 of which, have been my most successful and I'm a decent size, but unfortunately, steroids are the only way that most normal blokes achieve amazing physiques.
> 
> You need to sort your mind set out in my opinion. You're bulking, so you will gain fat as well as muscle.....accept it. When you cut, the gains will be visible, but that's not your current objective. Personally, I bulk only for limited periods (6 to 12 weeks) to make sure I don't ever get too fat......I hate cutting, but you need to work out what is best for you.
> 
> ...


Good post


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

gethenchordietrying said:


> Just found an old photo from this time last year, feel even worse now haha. Different lighting unfortunately, but you can see there's slightly more definition around the lats and f**k all difference elsewhere...


back and shoulders ddefiantly made gainz


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## nickdutch (Aug 21, 2013)

a suggestion might be to quit the maltodextrin. Its far too high glycemic index, doesn't really do you any good and makes the duodenum less efficient. Also what are you doing for vitamin and mineral supplementation to make the whole body more efficient?


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## TIDALWAVE (Aug 30, 2015)

gethenchordietrying said:


> Just found an old photo from this time last year, feel even worse now haha. Different lighting unfortunately, but you can see there's slightly more definition around the lats and f**k all difference elsewhere...


weight difference?


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## Myprotein offers (Oct 21, 2015)

gethenchordietrying said:


> Easy guys, been lurking for a while but just signed up, feeling pretty demotivated at the moment and could do with some advice.
> 
> I just don't seem to be gaining size. Strength is going up most weeks, however the size is pretty much non existent. I'm bulking at around 4000 calories which has seen me add 0.3-0.5 lb a week (the supposed ideal progress rate), however I feel it's mainly fat gains.
> 
> ...


first things first. DO NOT go on any gear if you don't know how to build muscle in the first place. All that will happen is you'll gain some water weight whilst you're on and then lose it when you come off or it'll have no effect on you.

If you want to gain muscle you need to stimulate your muscles. Doing 3 sets of 5 reps ain't gonna do anything but build strength. You want to be hitting 8-15 reps. Would recommend pyramid type of training. So as you up the weight you lower the reps. I'm a fan of many sets as in 4+ sets. I recommend lifting heavy aswel

Also your diet aint great. You want to be getting a good balance of protein fats and carbs in every meal apart from post workout where you don't want fats. You want quality protein from things like chicken breast, turkey breast, lean steak, lean minced beef, fish.

Some of the guys are right by saying it takes years to build muscle as a natural but it usually takes so long due to the trial and error process. You'll notice that people who have good coaches or someone experienced mentoring them from the start will have much quicker gains than someone new doing it on their own.


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## gethenchordietrying (Nov 3, 2015)

Appreciate all the replies and comments.

So, going forward:


Decrease use of whey protein - I'm thinking breakfast could be yoghurt / fruit and a handful of nuts. I'll replace the afternoon shake with some sort of ready meal. Asda do a Good & Balanced range which seem pretty good as far as ready meals go. (I'm at work that time hence the need for something quick and easy). 
Increase rest days - for now I'm going to include a rest day during the week. So my routine will go PPL R PP RR and continue where I left off the following week. I'll see how I get on with this for a month or so.
Look at switching reps to a slightly higher range once I've increased my strength.
Any recommendations to replace the maltodextrin? Should I double up on the dextrose or forget this altogether and just go straight for my post workout meal?
Keep working on hip / ankle flexibility to correct APT and squat properly.
Patience!


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## HakMat75 (Dec 5, 2015)

1. Echoing poster above, if you want mass drop all the 3x5 sets. It's been a good strength builder, given you a platform to get bigger now with 6-8, 8-12, 12-15 type set structures. I started the 5x5 / 3x5 route knowing I wouldn't gain much mass just a solid foundation of strength off which to jump into mass building.

2. You're also possibly overtraining, which is easy when training all upper body twice/week on PPL. Switch to a body part split but run it over 5/6 days instead of 7 if once a week isn't enough for you.

3. Diets poor. Real protein from real food is the key mate, as well as getting it in early pre and post workout, not waiting until evening dinner for your meat & veg.

Don't give up, just be more self aware of what your body is telling you I.e response to program & diet etc. Switch things up and down every 12-16 weeks. Take a week off now and then in between programmes. Incorporate deloads & reloads. Keep that mother****ing body guessing !


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