# Fat Loss!



## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Hey guys and girls,

I'm quite curious as to why I have made this observation about myself and I'm quite confused.

I've been naturally low T for the past 3-4 years and have since tried a PCT and managed to get my T within range (well that blood test was 3 weeks after PCT) so I'm not sure how it is now (did PCT in October).

Now I'm not trying to blame T, but I've always personally tried to push that thought aside - even before I discovered my low T as I dont want to be one of those fat people that blame their genes, or that there is something wrong with them and so on and so forth.

So for the past few years I've tried many of the diets, including the 'n00b' weight watchers but since discovering forums like these I've adopted for different approaches as my nutritional knowledge grew.

I've used the cunningham equation to establish a baseline of calories, and subtract accordingly to lose weight (or fat should I put it!).

Now what I find is say for example I require 2000 calories per day to loose fat, I try not to be all 'observational' on the matter and I tend on average throughout say a week eat around 1500 (some days lower, some days higher, so roughly a 1500cal per day average).

So I observe I make no fat loss, and begin to reduce my calories (I mean if my average is 1500, then how on earth am I going to lose fat near 2000!).

So I try a a few months on that diet, and make no progress (I dont like to call it a diet) but its just general eating and eating relatively clean (i.e; maybe 1 cheat meal in a week so out of 28 meals 1 of them is a cheat).

So I embark on the Anabolic Diet (the whole low carb diet scene) and I manage to loose the water weight (ovbiously) and then as it stands at the moment I lose around 0.5lb per week.

Now for the Anabolic diet, I should be losing (maximum) 2lb a week - and I have the same calorie problem (hitting 1500 when I should be around 2000).

But my question is, why can I lose weight (0.5lb) per week on the Anabolic Diet, yet the 'carb' version (Med Fat, Med Protein, Med Carbs) I don't loose anything and remain stable?

I'm pretty tired of eating the low carb way, it seems anti-social. Sure I can keep it up not a problem, but I would like to know if any of you have some opinions as to why I can't seem to shift any weight on the 'normal' type diet.

Is it because of my Testosterone? Am I doing something wrong? I'm willing to exercise and even added that into the mix with the carb diet but I dont really get any fat loss results. But my main query is I do the same exercise (lots of walking) on both diets but the anabolic is the only one I can lose a small 0.5lb per week.

I've been prescribed on TRT but not started it yet due to my last blood test result - will TRT make that much of a difference to a situation like myself and really kick in the fat loss, muscle growth and so on?

My doc hasn't said any plans for HCG etc (UK Based) just hoping someone here is on TRT via NHS and tell me if they've managed to get the 'proper' treatment?

[i've read 'proper' TRT is the Testosterone, an AI and HCG - and if you don't get that from your doc they're not that good of a doc > Observation made after reading hundreads of posts and threads on the topic]

I hope I've written the post decently, and hope it makes sense to those who read it - I'd really appriciate your reply.

Thanks


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## Vibora (Sep 30, 2007)

Do you know the levels of your total and free test before the PCT (at the low point?)

But yes, getting your test back into the normal range will do wonders for your body composition.


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Vibora said:


> Do you know the levels of your total and free test before the PCT (at the low point?)
> 
> But yes, getting your test back into the normal range will do wonders for your body composition.


hey

sorry for the very late reply!

No I do not know the total and free test @ the low point.

I think I have fairly high E2, but I've been told occasionally that I can't have due to my T needing to be high in order for E2 to be high.

However I store fat quite easily, I think I am on the verge of gyno (occasionally get itchy nipples, and they are puffy) and i have moobs but they're not hard (so as far as i am aware no gyno).

I weigh around 190lb with around a 25% body fat, so I'm far far from lean. Calculators state ~3000 calories for maintenance and +2500 for weight loss.

I have a question about this; I've been on low carb diets for quite a while (reading about boosting GH as insulin is low etc) however I eat around 1200 calories per day... and I lose 0.5lb a week. Now its very hard for me to think that if I eat 2500 I will lose 2lb per week?

I cannot eat that many calories on a low carb diet, the high fat just satisfies me way too much. Do you think that 2500 calories will make me lose fat?

If so, providing I get at least 1g protein per lb of bodyweight, can I eat 'moderate' carbs and moderate fat, high protein (i.e; normal food) but clean and healthy?

I am just curious because I tend to lose weight on low carb but like I say only 0.5lb per week after the initial 5lb water weight loss.

Sorry for the lengthy post, hopefully someone can help me out I would really appricaite it. Please note, i've always neglected the fact that I have hormone problems because I am no lazy, I dont want to be a person blaming my hormones for how I am like I am so please when you read this do not see me as a guy who is laid back and is brining out the hormone card as a reason for how I am. I want to change my life, please provide me with some information and help me.

Thank you all!


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Vibora said:


> Do you know the levels of your total and free test before the PCT (at the low point?)
> 
> But yes, getting your test back into the normal range will do wonders for your body composition.


Hey

Sorry for the late reply.

No i am afraid i do not know the free test before my PCT *but my total test was around 3 (range 8-32). [No idea about E2]*

I am trying for fat loss and currently on the anabolic diet losing about 0.5 lb per week, which I think is slow? as it states it should be 2lb per week. I get around 1200 calories.

Now I have a question, I check the cunningham equation and it states that i need 3000 calories for maintenance and 2500 for 2lb fat loss per week. I weigh 190 and have around 25% body fat so im far from lean.

My quesiton is; if I change from 1200 to 2500 calories will I go from losing 0.5lb to 2 lb per week? I know its hard to think that if I eat more I will lose fat but if I could be re-assured i might give it a go.

Another thing would be if I was to eat 2500 calories, providing i get 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight can I eat an overall balanced diet which is clean of course and still lose 2lb or would i need to select a low carb diet?

I've tried non-dieting and I tend to eat around 1500 calories area, but still do not lose any fat.... so I am wondering whether I am actually eating too little?? Its just too hard to think that eating more means I will lose more - I can see people thinking "yeh I need to eat more to lose more" as an excuse to eat more but I only want to if its going to help.

Im trying to ignore my hormone issues, however I do think that I have high E2, as I do have moobs (prob more related to overweight) and I do have itchy and puffy nipples at times. I dont have gyno as far as i am aware as I dont have any lumps. Im trying to change my body as much as possible, hopefully the hormones will eventually sort themselves out but I want to simultaneously lose fat as I am not a lazy person.

Hopefully you peeps can help me out, i would really appriciate it.


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

if your maintenance is 3,000 calories a day and you are eating 1,200 calories a day you are in starvation mode where your body reacts to the very low calorie intake by expending less energy, if you were to up the calories to between 2,000 and 2,500 you would definitely shift more weight in my opinion, although it might take a few days for your body to react to the increased calories and come out of starvation mode.

Try and up your calories to that, with atliest 1g of protein per lb of lean body weight, and things should definatly pick up, including ur mood and general well-being!

As for the moobs, at 25% body fat its probably just excess fat as men are prone to building fat on their chest, should go down slowly, but will probly be the last to go, along with the stomach. good luck mate


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

JimmyBe said:


> if your maintenance is 3,000 calories a day and you are eating 1,200 calories a day you are in starvation mode where your body reacts to the very low calorie intake by expending less energy, if you were to up the calories to between 2,000 and 2,500 you would definitely shift more weight in my opinion, although it might take a few days for your body to react to the increased calories and come out of starvation mode.
> 
> Try and up your calories to that, with atliest 1g of protein per lb of lean body weight, and things should definatly pick up, including ur mood and general well-being!
> 
> As for the moobs, at 25% body fat its probably just excess fat as men are prone to building fat on their chest, should go down slowly, but will probly be the last to go, along with the stomach. good luck mate


Hi Jimmy

Thanks alot for replying to the thread. Makes me feel a lot better when there is a personal response to my particular query!  .

I will jump into the 'deep' and trust what you and others have said across the web regarding starvation mode and needing to eat more... a hard one to get my head around but fingers crossed.

Ok so I'll go ahead and come out of the anabolic diet for now and switch to a 2500 calorie diet at moderate fats, carbs and 1g per lb of body weight (so 150g per day).

I'll be eating clean, would you reccomend a top limit for carbohydrates? Such as for example, 100G per day or just get the 'calories' in - making sure I hit the *calories* mark and the *protein* mark (carbs and fats can be 'misc') sort of thing?

Edit: just did a quick calculation and 150g protein = 600 kcal, 200g carbs = 800 kcal, leaving 1400 for fat... which is 150g!! Is that too much fat? IIRC I've heard to keep fat around ~80g?

Any help with the macros? I already feel 200g carbs is alot.... any help appriciated.


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

Id suggest starting at what you would consider a normal days food, aim to reduce the calories from your diet each week by 100-150. Never drop all calories at once and pay attention to your weight, 2lb a week should be the maximum your aiming to lose. 40% carbs 50% protein 10% fat would be suitable.


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Inapsine said:


> Id suggest starting at what you would consider a normal days food, aim to reduce the calories from your diet each week by 100-150. Never drop all calories at once and pay attention to your weight, 2lb a week should be the maximum your aiming to lose. 40% carbs 50% protein 10% fat would be suitable.


Hi

Thats what I have been doing and I can only manage to get off 0.5lb per week (on anabolic diet) - and for someone as overweight as me the lbs normally drop off quicker on a high BF% person than a lower BF% person. I am quite happy eating what I eat, getting 1500 calories per day, but after lots of reading almost everyone is saying if maintenance is 3000 and i am at 1500 then im in starvation mode.

i've been at 1500 for too long, and I seem to stagnate with regards to weight loss, so I am going to give 2500 calories a try - just working out macros is hard. For example, if I use the 50% protein instead of 1g per lb of lean weight than that would be 350g of protein a day!

Thanks for replying guys 

Edit: had a re-read of the sticky, and my maintenance does say 3000 and thus 2500 calories for fat loss - but what about the following

Protein : 150g = 600kcal

Carbs: 200g = 800 kcal

Fat: 70g = 630kcal

Total kcal: 2030kcal

Does that sound decent enough, or is it crucial to find the extra 500kcals to meet to the -500 kcal deficit?

Thanks


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

If you are doing strength training, you will want carbs and protein both prior and straight after the gym. More carbs on gym days, and consume less carbs in the evening. Try sticking to between the 2000-2500 mark and see how it goes for a week or two, letting your body react to the change in diet.

Losing more than 2lb per week will lead to more muscle loss unless you are on AAS, so if you end up losing more than that up the calories. Strength training should help battle the catabolic effect of dieting.

I would also recommend a refeed once every week, or fortnight, where you eat at maintenance level (3000kcal) or a bit more with lots of protein, this should help with the metabolism slow down that happens after long periods of dieting


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Ok will do Jimmy.

The macro's OK I posted above?

Thanks for your help.


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

Worth trying it as it is and see how it works for you, but i would try and get more protein than the bare minimum (1g/lb of body weight = the minimum). if your really sluggish in the gym might need to up the carbs :thumb:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

the problem is also you're likely to be low on t3. This happens when on low cals and low carbs... you stop losing fat.. there is a chapter on it in this book, which is the dieting bible.. has 3 diets, and lists the good parts and limits.. also guides you through which drugs you use to get over your hurdles:

free download:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UL2OARC8


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## olliel (Jun 16, 2011)

cheers for that link will be some good reading before cutting later this year

repped

o


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> the problem is also you're likely to be low on t3. This happens when on low cals and low carbs... you stop losing fat.. there is a chapter on it in this book, which is the dieting bible.. has 3 diets, and lists the good parts and limits.. also guides you through which drugs you use to get over your hurdles:


Thank you very much 

By the way all I have started eating 2000 calories, expect there to be some gain etc while i stabilise - i will update this thread with progress etc and just want to thank you for helping me.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

U may gain some water from the increase in carbs


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

hey guys

just an update

been eating close to 2000 calories, trying to get there whilst remaining clean!

heres my average daily intake










I've also added in 15 mins of light cardio, might not do anything but feels good after I do it so I'm doing that on a daily basis.

Will start strength training soon, just wanting to get diet in check.

Thanks


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Update; Put on 3lb this week (prob water due to being an the Anabolic Diet previously?)

Still eating around 2000kcal, will see what it gives in the next few weeks.

 .


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

The day i stopped keto, i also started loading creatine mono. by end of the week i was like 10 lbs heavier lol


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Morning all

Just an update, I'm on my 3rd week today of eating higher calories with the above posted macros.

Eating on average 1700, 2000 I hit sometimes but most of the time its 1700.

History

192.2lb @ 1st december w/keto

down to 184 and held till ~9th Jan

started eating carbs again, not sure how much I went up but highest I saw (weighed randomly) was 190.2 (restoring water etc)

now weigh 188.8lbs

[just for personal reminder; started 1700 cals on 10th Jan 2012, on 25th Jan weigh 188.8 and official starting weight]

so my new starting weight is 188.8lbs now I've got my carb intake back in and normal, and I will continue to do 1700 calories at the above macros and see how it goes.

thanks for your help


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

hey all

just a question (i've done a search and tried to gather the info but no specific answers so thought i'd ask here)

1) If I am in a calorie deficit and I starting doing bench press, squats etc will I just maintain muscle? (I ask this because people mention 'newbie' gains and I was wondering if newbie gains only come from if I am eating in a calorie surplus).

2) If for example I ate 2000 calories per day and there is two scenarios 1) Eat food up to 1500 calories for (-500kcal) to lose weight and 2) Eat food up to 2000 calories and exercise to burn 500kcal to lose weight

On paper they are effectively the same, but is one more of an advantage to the other (apart from you wont be hungry on the 2000kcal one). Is this better for your body to eat more and then burn it off rather than not having it at all?

Reason I ask is because some cardio burning tips are saying eat around 1500-2000 calories and do an hour of cardio which could burn 6-700 calories..... meaning that would be 1300 calories net at the end of the day. Im wondering if it has the same effect on the body (metabolism etc) as eating just 1300 calories?

Sorry if the question is very newbie like but Im curious because alot of people say eat -500 from maintenance and then exercise... just that results in (if eating 2000 and burning 700 calories in the gym) close to the 'starvation' mode and I was wondering whether you enter that mode or not.

Hope it makes sense!


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

1) from my personal experience i have gained (atliest strength wise not sure about size) whilst on a calorie deficit.

2) Eating more food will boost your metabolism, while doing cardio also increases your metabolism for a short period of time, so in essence eating more but doing cardio would be better. But remember you burn calories doing a weight session, and doing weights boosts your metabolism too. Another thing i find is if i do cardio on my rest days i really do see worse gains, so i try and have a day off between weight days and do cardio after weights (i've read doing cardio after weights has an increased fat burning capability, as aposed to doing cardio prior to a weights session which can be potentially catabolic, and can negatively affect your weight sessions.) If the extra 500 calories a day would result in you eating a nice bit more protein it could be really beneficial

But to be honest its so much easier to eat 500 kcals less than it is to go and do 500 kcals worth of cardio lol.

You could try eating 2,000 kcals on a weights day, and do a bit of cardio afterwards, then on a rest day eat 1,500? i pressume 1,500 calories is an example though, because that seems pretty low calories!


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> the problem is also you're likely to be low on t3. This happens when on low cals and low carbs... you stop losing fat.. there is a chapter on it in this book, which is the dieting bible.. has 3 diets, and lists the good parts and limits.. also guides you through which drugs you use to get over your hurdles:
> 
> free download:
> 
> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UL2OARC8


Aus, now not available as on Megaupload - was this Duchaine's Body Opus, or another tome?


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## musio (Jan 25, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> the problem is also you're likely to be low on t3. This happens when on low cals and low carbs... you stop losing fat.. there is a chapter on it in this book, which is the dieting bible.. has 3 diets, and lists the good parts and limits.. also guides you through which drugs you use to get over your hurdles:
> 
> free download:
> 
> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UL2OARC8


So if you're in keto and Not on any AAS, it's bad news but if you are on AAS, you could do 50g of carbs and be ok as yore injecting artificial test ....Ahem aus!


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Jaybe said:


> *I think I have fairly high E2, but I've been told occasionally that I can't have due to my T needing to be high in order for E2 to be high.*


Either you misheard, or whoever told you that really doesn't know what they're talking about. Do a bit of reading up on aromatase and the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. If you have details of your blood work results it might be worthwhile posting them up (possibly on the Steroid and Testosterone information sub-forum) as there are people on here that know a lot more about male hormones than the average UK GP.

Best of luck to you.


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

> Aus, now not available as on Megaupload - was this Duchaine's Body Opus, or another tome?


It was the body opus


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

cheers



JimmyBe said:


> It was the body opus


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

JimmyBe said:


> 1) from my personal experience i have gained (atliest strength wise not sure about size) whilst on a calorie deficit.
> 
> 2) Eating more food will boost your metabolism, while doing cardio also increases your metabolism for a short period of time, so in essence eating more but doing cardio would be better. But remember you burn calories doing a weight session, and doing weights boosts your metabolism too. Another thing i find is if i do cardio on my rest days i really do see worse gains, so i try and have a day off between weight days and do cardio after weights (i've read doing cardio after weights has an increased fat burning capability, as aposed to doing cardio prior to a weights session which can be potentially catabolic, and can negatively affect your weight sessions.) If the extra 500 calories a day would result in you eating a nice bit more protein it could be really beneficial
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply  . I'm starting lifting (Stronglifts 5x5) and continuing to eat ~1700 cals with approx 145g Protein / 170g Carbs / 55g Fat (Approximates).

Going to see how that goes, main aim is to cut I guess I'm around 20-22% BF so looking to see what I can do and hopefully my goal is around 10%



Ian_Montrose said:


> Either you misheard, or whoever told you that really doesn't know what they're talking about. Do a bit of reading up on aromatase and the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. If you have details of your blood work results it might be worthwhile posting them up (possibly on the Steroid and Testosterone information sub-forum) as there are people on here that know a lot more about male hormones than the average UK GP.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


Hey Ian,

I did hear correctly, and was sure that the various people were incorrect. As you mentioned regarding aromatase I did some reading and found that out which also worried me when I was told to go on Androgel due to my low T (i read alot of the gel converts to E due to the aromatase in the skin where it is applied). Despite this my endo will not give an E2 test, however I was put for a SHBG test, however I didn't get a result for just SHBG, like for example, SHBG: 23, I got a few other results but nothing with just SHBG written on. The only one (after some searching) close is Albumin which I got at 49 (30-50 range).

Not completely sure what that means but I'm going to keep up with the diet to achieve the fat loss, I may make a thread in that section soon.

Thanks!


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## Allanso (Feb 1, 2012)

The best treatments for the fat loss are

Use of green tea

Running

Walking

Yoga

and also you can join the fitness centers under training of the professionals.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

You're heading in the right direction, keep doing what you're doing, it's not gonna happen over night, it's taken me

6 months and counting.

Well done.


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

thanks mate

couldnt do a weigh in this morning as i had no time (ate breakfast, had 2 coffees then realised im not empty for weight measurement doh!) so will measure tomorrow.

i have noticed since i stopped keto that my jeans have got a bit tighter, esp around the legs. I was around 184 on keto and last weigh in at 188.8 but didnt think 4lb could make that much of a difference! gets me a peed off but aint going to slack at all.

started the gym on monday, i look forward to each workout which is a good thing (stronglifts) 5x5.

will update with stats tomorrow. by the way if there is a lb increase, anyway to tell if its muscle (i know it prob wont be in 3 days) but in general, is there a way to find out more accurate than calipers? i.e; could i use my waist size to gauge if its muscle or fat gain?


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Best (easiest) way to gauge whether you're adding a bit of muscle whilst burning fat is how your clothes feel.

Your face will also start to look thinner, then your legs and shoulders.

Your chest and belly will be the last place it will go from, but you should be able to drop a waist size pretty quickly.


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## bartonz20let (Aug 13, 2010)

Allanso said:


> The best treatments for the fat loss are
> 
> Use of green tea
> 
> ...


Where the fook do these posts come from?


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

I want to join the fitness centers under training of the professionals.

I'm not ready for yoga yet.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> Aus, now not available as on Megaupload - was this Duchaine's Body Opus, or another tome?


yes it was... bugger.. bloody americans for taking that site down..



musio said:


> So if you're in keto and Not on any AAS, it's bad news but if you are on AAS, you could do 50g of carbs and be ok as yore injecting artificial test ....Ahem aus!


keto is the best effort to minimise muscle loss by using the carb-up for anabolic rebound...

but with AAS you can go without a weekly carb up.. and lose fat faster.. and retain all muscle...

50g of carbs is my regular low fat diet.. need ot be under that for keto...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> Aus, now not available as on Megaupload - was this Duchaine's Body Opus, or another tome?





Allanso said:


> The best treatments for the fat loss are
> 
> Use of green tea
> 
> ...


yes.. i see work on bring out your hidden inner p**fter... funny thing is, sydney as a huge gay scene, and many are really f**king buff.. they do loads of AAS and coke... green tea and yoga too no doubt, but only bikram yoga in budgie smugglers (speedos). :lol:


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## L00NEY (Feb 22, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> yes it was... bugger.. bloody americans for taking that site down..
> 
> keto is the best effort to minimise muscle loss by using the carb-up for anabolic rebound...
> 
> ...


i know the feds pulled the plug on that site but its here anyway, just make sure you got a download client like vuze to d/l it

http://torrentscan.com/#!/search/body%20opus/engine/btjunkie


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Mornin' all,

First week of stronglifts 5x5 complete, aching all over lol

Jumped on the scales today, weigh 193.8!? but waist is still the same... not sure whats going on there eating the 1700 cals around 140g protein, 140g carbs and 50g fats (approx, posted in image of my actual macros on page 2).

Newbie gains? Kind of doubting as its only been a week and if I'm in a calorie surplus i thought I would be loosing weight but I'll see if you guys can diagnose this one!!


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

have you loaded creatine monohydrate? 5lb gain is alot... lots of sodium on your diet recently, lots of carbs? more carbs could mean your glycogen reserves have been filled a bit which will make you gain water weight, and lots of sodium can bloat you...


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

or are you a week in to test prop or dbol? lol...


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

JimmyBe said:


> have you loaded creatine monohydrate? 5lb gain is alot... lots of sodium on your diet recently, lots of carbs? more carbs could mean your glycogen reserves have been filled a bit which will make you gain water weight, and lots of sodium can bloat you...


hey jimmy

yeh tell me about it!

No creatine, only protein supp to get about 60g of protein rest is whole foods. Carbs around 140 usually 100g though but 140g peak and they are good carbs, complex - whole bread etc no junk at all.

Sodium? I dont really have alot of salt just a dash with my scrambled eggs.

Heres avg (what I have had today)

Breakfast:

2*Bread+Ham: Carbs:~30g Protein: ~10g

Snack:

Protein Shake: Carbs:~10g Protein: 50g

Lunch:

4* Eggs and 2*Bread: Carbs: 30g Protein: 32g

Dinner (not had yet)

Chicken Breast with Salad and 50g worth of carbs (pitta/pasta/rice)

That is average, but its usually around 1700 and 140g protein and carbs and 50g of fats.

I've not really trained before, but I only started this monday so I cannot see how it would be possible to put on 5lb since starting the gym?!

I'm quite confused as to how or even why this has occured? I'm keeping up with it though, but would appriciate your thoughts/comments on it and some advice!

My testosterone was around 5 from 2 weeks ago blood test, so i've gone onto TRT (started yesterday) but that doesn't explain the recent gain!! (5lb in 1 night?!) and I also mentioned the tightness of jeans the other day.

Hope ya'll can help.  .


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

the only thing i can suggest is give it another week and see what the scale says/clothes fit, if i was in the same position i would be pretty confused... you sure your protein shake doesnt have creatine already in it?


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

You're trying to lose fat, not weight, so don't get too preoccupied with what the scales say. As others have said, look to how your clothes are fitting and how you look in the mirror.

You could also tweak your diet going by the post two above. I don't see the point in having a protein shake for a mid-morning snack. Get some real food down your neck. Protein shakes are worthwhile either when you need an intake of quick absorption protein, like after an intense workout, or where you need so much protein to support an aggressive muscle-building program that you simply can't stomach the quantity of food required.

There's no sign of you getting sufficient healthy fats into you - do some research on this.Plenty of advise on the forum to refer to and it is a very important subject that most people are ignorant of. Dietary fat is not the devil, far from it.

It's not just about the macros, especially where carbs are concerned. For your objectives, you need to minimize or completely avoid simple, fast digested carbs. White bread - you might as well be eating a mars bar so reconsider the morning and lunchtime sarnies. Rice and pitta are better but make sure you're eating wholegrain only. You should swap out a fair proportion of the carbs you've listed and replace the bread/rice/pitta with vegetables to get some vitamins and fibre inside you.

You seem well motivated but I think you would benefit greatly from studying this forum for a few days and improving your knowledge on proper diet.


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

JimmyBe said:


> the only thing i can suggest is give it another week and see what the scale says/clothes fit, if i was in the same position i would be pretty confused... you sure your protein shake doesnt have creatine already in it?


Ok will do - glad I am not the only one confused. My protein shake is Impact Whey Protein Unflavoured so pretty sure no Creatine in it.



Ian_Montrose said:


> You're trying to lose fat, not weight, so don't get too preoccupied with what the scales say. As others have said, look to how your clothes are fitting and how you look in the mirror.
> 
> You could also tweak your diet going by the post two above. I don't see the point in having a protein shake for a mid-morning snack. Get some real food down your neck. Protein shakes are worthwhile either when you need an intake of quick absorption protein, like after an intense workout, or where you need so much protein to support an aggressive muscle-building program that you simply can't stomach the quantity of food required.
> 
> ...


Hi Ian thanks for the reply.

Sure I understand regarding the losing fat and not weight (my bad if it came across as not understanding that). I'm just confused regarding the weight simply because I thought the best anyone could do by losing fat is remain at the same weight and reduce fat and gain muscle (as a newbie etc) - but like I say "at the best" so I was/am confused as to how I could be putting lb's on in a time where im in a Kcal deficit.

Regarding my daily intake, well I workout Monday @ 6:30, Weds @ 1PM, Friday @ 6:30 - so thats why I had the protein shake as it was about an hour after workout (forgot to mention that!).

I understand your point, I'm trying to get most protein from whole foods, but the extra ~50g from the shake really helps with the macros as well as cost of food.

I'll have to add some fats into the mix, I get a fair bit from the eggs which I think is good fats? But i'll throw in some good nuts and use more olive oil etc.

For the carbs I am avoiding simple carbs, all my carb sources are wholegrain/wholewheat including my bread, rice and pitta. I think my diet is pretty good, its all round clean and I'm hitting the macros I have posted on a daily basis - the only thing I'm changing is the carbs which are around 100g-140g (depends if I eat more carbs that day sometimes I dont feel like having any).

Hopefully my T getting boosted up will also help with the training and body fat loss.

Thanks for replies and as always feel free to add more comments etc  .


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Just to give an update of my overall training.

Monday - Stronglifts 5x5 Workout & 30min bike cardio + 10min fast paced walk

Wednesday - Stronglifts 5x5 Workout & 30min bike cardio + 10min fast paced walk

Friday - Stronglifts 5x5 Workout & 30min bike cardio + 10min fast paced walk

Saturday - 30min bike cardio

food: sticking to 1700kcal. All approx; protein:120-150 | carbs:100-150 | fats:50-70

Looking forward to tomorrow.  .


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

Me caveman.. me SMAAASHHH


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

haha might as well Jimmy no idea where them posts are coming from!

Will do a weigh in tomorrow and see how its gone and keep threda updated.


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Hey

Well I weigh in at....... 196.6lb. So another week of a gain of +2.8lb.

Anyone got any thoughts?

I'm a tad annoyed, but motivated so I am on the positive end of things. My waist (largest part) is still the same. Clothes feel the same too (bit tighter since I come off the low carb Anabolic Diet).

Not sure what I should do from now? I've got no problem trying things - just I didnt think fat loss would be this difficult? I know its not easy, but I would say I'm having quite a go at it (clean diet, stronglifts and 4x cardio sessions a week). I am now on test 40mg a day 2% gel - would that have an effect on it? (by the way how much is that compared to normal human production).

So to cut a long story short, just over a week of starting stronglifts and cardio routines and about 3-4 weeks of the 1700 calorie eating.

Hope ya'll can help.

Thanks.


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

when did you re-introduce carbs?


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

JimmyBe said:


> when did you re-introduce carbs?


Re introduced carbs approx 4 weeks ago, started proper training just over 1 week ago and test gel ~5 days ago.


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## ZyZee_2012 (Jan 1, 2010)

Ok weighed myself this morning and I am 193.8 now...

Im quite confused, so what I think is the best idea is to try another week see how it goes and if not switch to the Anabolic Diet again (low carb, high fat & protein) and see how it goes. I was stalling on 0.5lb a week, so hopefully I can reboot the system and get lower. Ideally want to be around 150 and then bulk... tough mission at this rate.

Even though I think I will just go on the anabolic diet- WHY for the life of me can I not lose weight when the figures are right on paper? I've been eating really well and clean and cannot get rid of it. I know its not easy to trim up otherwise everyone would be ripped but i'm making a huge effort and cannot shift - just wondering if anyone knew why that is? Why is it that I cannot loose the fat? Confused.

To be fair, thinking about it potentially all I can lose is water weight (~7lb) and I start to stall again, so whats holding the fat here?

So tempted for some t3+dnp to be honest, that boosts metabolism right? IF my RMR is too low, would that make it increase?

I dont want to really, but its drawing me closer to trying it. If I did it would be 200mg a day max.

Any input appriciated.


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## JimmyBe (Nov 8, 2011)

Personally i like very low carb diets because i can stick to them, when i done a normal calorie deficit diet i would cheat alot more often, like the odd meal out or maltesers. With CKD diet i just cheat once a week and have a fantastic time.

I started keto again last monday. Currently running T3 at 100mcg, and Clenbuterol at 120mcg, along with 500mg of Test-e a week which i front loaded (finished frontloading last sunday) with 10 pins of Test Prop. I didnt start the clen until last thursday, so a week today.

I weighed myself on tuesday morning and had gone from 12.6% body fat to 10.7% body fat in 8 days, which im pretty happy with. I had planned on weighing myself this morning for 1 week on clen, but i went out on tuesday got drunk, then decided to have a cheat day yesterday because i felt ill lol so not such a good few days. Back on no carbs now though!


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