# Comments please!



## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

I have finally come up with this diet to help me bulk its only a basic 3500 calories a day but lets see what you guys think, any comments good or bad welcome as i am here to learn!!!!

Training days

*Breakfast*

1 cup of oatmeal with skimmed milk

1 protein shake

1 cup of halved strawberries on oatmeal

*Snack 1*

1 medium banana

1 orange

4 table spoons of peanut butter

4 rice cakes

*Lunch*

8oz Chicken breast/white meat

2 tbl spoons of low fat mayo

1 cup of white rice

*Snack 2*

1 quaker bar

7oz coffee black

1 protein shake

*TRAIN*

*Dinner*

2 tbl spoons low fat mayo

1 large or 2 medium Jacket potatoes

salad (medium green with onion and tomato)

1 tin white tuna

*Snack 3*

1 protein shake with either milk or water (probably milk to slow absorption of protein)

NON TRAINING DAYS

*Breakfast*

1 cup of oatmeal

2 cups of milk

1 tbl spoon of honey

1 protein shake

*Snack 1*

2 rye bread

2 tbl spoons of low fat mayo

1 protein shake

1 can of tuna

*Lunch*

6oz of chicken breast or white meat

2 tbl spoons of low fat mayo

1 cup of white rice

*Snack 2*

4 corn tortillas

sweet bell peppers

Broad beans or kidney beans

*Dinner*

1 cup black eyed peas

Broccoli

7oz salmon

*Snack 3*

either cottage cheese or protein with milk

this breaks down to be 311g protein 402g carbs 61g fat total calories between 3200 and 3500!

Please tell me what you think


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Try looking at this mate;

http://www.ukiron.net/showthread.php?t=1631


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

infact you'll have to register, and instead of forcing you to;

*The Bulking Primer*

*
**By LeanMeOut & rambo*

*First things first:*

There are many reasons that bulking diets fail but here are a few of the most common reasons:

1) Calories are not high enough and putting on muscle mass fails

2) Calories are too high and macros percentages are not in check. This in turn leads to putting on sloppy weight (fat) as well as muscle.

3) You are BULKING, not CHEATING. Cheat days will be factored in, but your food choices should still be healthy. All diets, whether cutting or buking, need to be monitored. This means that watching your insulin spikes and TYPE of carb intake is still important.

4) You are what you eat. It?s just that simple. To simplify, you eat crap and you will look like crap.

That being said let?s talk calories and figuring out daily needs

*Harris Benedict Formula for Calorie Calculations*

?The Harris Benedict equation is a calorie formula using the variables of height, weight, age, and gender to calculate basal metabolic rate (BMR). This is more accurate than calculating calorie needs based on total body weight alone. The only factor it omits is lean body mass and thus the ratio of muscle-to-fat a body has. Remember, leaner bodies need more calories than less leaner ones. Therefore, this equation will be very accurate in all but the very muscular (Harris-Benedict will under-estimate calorie needs) and the very fat (Harris-Benedict will over-estimate calorie needs).?

That being said, there are is no concrete number of daily calorie intake your body needs, however using this formula will give you can idea of what you do need.

*Harris Benedict Formula for Men*

BMR = 66 + (13.7 X weight in kilos) + (5 X height in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

Notes:

1 inch = 2.54 cm.

1 kilogram = 2.2 lbs.

*Example of BMR*

You are 25 years old

You are 6 feet tall

Your weight is 220 pounds

Your BMR is 66 + (1370) + (914) - (170) = 2180 calories

*Harris Benedict Formula for Men - STEP 2*

To determine your total daily calorie needs, now multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

If you are Sedentary - little or no exercise

Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.2

- If you are Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week)

Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.375

- If you are Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week)

Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.55

- If you are Very Active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/week)

Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.725

- If you are Extra Active (very hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training)

Calorie-Calculation = BMR X 1.9

*Total Calorie Needs Example*

If you are lightly active, multiply your BMR (2180) by 1.375 = 2997

Your total daily calorie requirement is therefore 2997 calories.

This is the total number of calories you need in order to MAINTAIN your current weight.

If you want to gain body weight, you must consume more calories than you burn. One pound of body weight is roughly equivalent to 3500 calories, so eating an extra 500 calories per day will cause you to gain one pound a week. Etc?.

We have included an excel document created by Elliot @ AR that will calculate your calorie needs for you, using the Harris Benedict formula.

*Elliot's Harris Benedict Calculator for Males: *

http://www.geocities.com/arelliotness/

Download the document named: harris-elliot.xls

Alright so now we know that you need extra calories to gain weight. So what should these calories be comprised of?? Well before we go there, let?s talk diet basics.

*The BASICS-*

*1. Postworkout Nutrition-* I?m a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amount of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

*2. Carbs-* carbohydrates are a very helpful macronutrient when you are trying to gain lean mass. However, carbohydrates are only useful if they are used at the correct times. In my opionion carbohydrates are only necessary for 3 meals of the day. These meals include breakfast, your PWO Shake, and your PPWO Meal. Your breakfast and PPWO meals should be comprised of slow burning complex carbs that are low on the glycemic chart. Some good examples of low glycemic carbs are brown rice, yams, and oatmeal. Others may include whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta.

*3. Protein-* Just like when you are cutting, you need plenty of protein. For bulking, a good rule of thumb is 2-3g of protein per pound of lean bodyweight. You should take in a good portion of your protein in the source of real meals, avoid intaking too many shakes, as real food comes to a better benefit. The list foods with high protein bioavailability is extensive, and I will only cover a few, (Egg whites, Lean steak, Chicken breast, the list goes on forever?.).

*4. Fats-* EFA?s (Essential Fatty Acids) are extremely important in any diet. The list of benefits from taking in dietary fats I extensive and I am not even going to get started on it. I will just say that a diet which includes EFA?s will yield much better results. Good sources of fat are ( Flax Oil, Nuts, Salmon, Olive Oil). EFA

*5. The separation of Carbs and Fats-* This is a hotly debated issue, but again, in my opinion, an important aspect nonetheless. Remember that it is often when you eat items and with what you eat them that is more important than what you are eating. A mouthful, I know, but stay with me. Remember that when you take in certain carbs, you can spike your insulin levels. If you are taking in fats when your insulin has been spiked, you are allowing the basic laws of physiology to act out, and you allow for a higher propensity for fat storage. Separation is key. The sample diet will give a good example of how to separate them.

*6. Supplements-*

*Glutamine:* Helps prevent catabolism. Best used in dosages of 10grams daily, 5 grams before cardio, 5 grams at another interval, but not after workout as it fights for absorption with the glutamine peptides in whey.

*ALA/R-ALA-* Gets my supplement of the day award. R-ala is effective in lowering the spike of insulin when certain carbs are consumed. I could give you a dissertation on the stereoentisomeric properties of the R, but all you need to know is that it has been found to shuttle carbohydrates away from adipose and into myocytes. Translation: Away from fat cells, into muscle cells. It?s a supplement, however, not a miracle worker. It?s not a crutch, and won?t do anything about fat intake. ala and R-ala can also aid in the expedition of the ketogenic state. Remember that if you buy R-ala that you supplement it with Biotin. Glucorell-R is prepackaged with it. If you can afford it, go for it. As far as dosage, with the R, you are looking at 1-2 pills of Glucorell R for each 30-40grams of carb intake.

*Protein and Carb Shakes:* I?m not going to cover protein, because even if you can?t afford it, you should sell a kidney to get some. Carb drinks are rather convenient, and companies offer pre mixed dosages, (CarboHit, Glycoload, UltraFuel). Dextrose and Maltodextrin can be bought from most supplement stores or online.

*Creatine:* Unlike while cutting, creatine can be used while bulking since the water retention from its use will not be an issue since you are ?bulking?. In the body, creatine is synthesized from the amino acids glycine, arginine and methionine. Taking supplemental doses of creatine monohydrate can increase muscle creatine and phosphocreatine (PC) concentrations by up to 40%. These increases can lead to improvements in muscle energy production and recuperation.

*7. Cheating-* Cheating is essential. Why? Remember, the body runs on homeostasis, it likes to keep balance. After eating so well after a week, your body begins to adjust, and lean mass gain / fat burning over time will not be as rapid. The other extremely important aspect is mental sanity. So many diets crash and fail because people don?t give themselves a chance to breath. Remember, cheating is not an opportunity for you to pillage the entire mall food court. Shoot for a cheat meal, not an all out binge. A fast food value meal can be 2,000 calories. Eat that 3 times on one day, and you?ve consumed 6,000 calories. And that?s not good in any case.

*8. Cardio- *D*mn right cardio!! Yes even when bulking. Why? Because cardio works the most important muscle of all ? YOUR HEART. Not only that, but doing cardio 3 times a week will help keep the fat you will gain in this diet to a minimum. Cardio should be performed on an empty stomach first thing in the am. The proper cardio for burning fat is done by staying in your target heart rate for fat burning which is 65-70% of your max heart rate for a period of 45-60 minutes. To figure this out you can use the following formula:

220 ? your age * .65

220 ? your age * .7

Example for a 22 year old:

220 ? 22 * .65 = 128.7

220 ? 22 * .7 = 138.6

From this we can conclude that for a 22 year old target heart rate for fat burning should be between 129 and 138 beats per minute for 45-60 minutes.

Why 45-60 minutes?? Because fat burning (lipolysis) doesn?t typically kick in until the 20 minute mark, so only doing 30 minutes of cardio yields 10 minutes of fat burning. You get the point.

***Cardio Disclaimer: *Some people have a harder time gaining weight than others, and doing cardio might not be the best idea for these people. For others who wish to use the fat burning abilities of cardio but still gain size, 30-35 minutes of cardio 1-3 times a week may be a better choice. Remember it is your body and only you know what works for you.

*Now The Sample Diet: *

Note: This is a sample diet for our 26 year old, 6ft tall, 220 pound gentleman mentioned in the example above for figuring out calorie needs. This diet will NOT work for you if those criteria don?t apply to you; however it is easy to customize the below diet to take in account your own statistics. It is the principles that are applicable.. I am not going to post the total amount of calories, only the carb, protein and fat macros for the whole day.

Based on the Harris Benedict formula above, our friend here needs 2997 calories a day to maintain his current weight. So in order for him to gain 1 pound a week, we need to increase his calories to right around 3500 a day since that will yield 3500 calories over his maintenance numbers needed for the week.

*
Meal 1: Pro/Carb*

8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal

50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat

*Meal 2: Pro/Fat*

Lean Ground Beef, ? cup swiss cheese, green veggies

55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat

*Meal 3: Pro/Carb*

Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

55g protein / 84g carbs / 3g Fat

**Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.

*Meal 4: Pro/Fat*

2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat

*Workout*

*Meal 5: PWO Nutrition*

2 Scoops whey Protein / 80g of Dextrose

40g protein / 80g carbs / 0g fat

*Meal 6: PPWO*

Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ? cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat

*Meal 7: Pro/Fat*

Lean Protein of your choice, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter

50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat

*Meal 8: Before Bed*

3 Scoops of whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

*That turns into approximately 420 grams protein, 270 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories*

*Reminder: This is a PRIMER. It?s not mean to be comprehensive. Everyone is different, to find out what works for your body takes trial and error.

__

Here comes the fun part: Question and Answer?.

Q: What about dairy?

A: This is totally dependant upon your goals. If you don?t mind the bloat from milk then go for it. Skim milk is a better choice as far as mixing fats and carbs go. Remember you are bulking so you have more freedom in your dietary choices.

Q: How often should I eat?

A: You?ll have to do the math to see how often you will have to eat to get your 7-8 meals a day in. If your up for 16 hours a day, then every 2 hours is how often you need to eat.

Q: Is sodium an issue?

A: Outside of the bloating issue, or if you have high cholesterol, no.

Q. How do I make my meals not taste like cardboard?

A. Be creative. Mix in some sugar free jam or splenda in your oats, some hot sauce or soy sauce on your meats, or pick up some sugar free ketchup.

Q. I don?t like old fashioned oats. Can I eat the pre mixed oats with fruit?

A. No. Be a man. Those mixes have ridiculous amounts of sugar.

Q. What about fruit?

A: Go for it, like with dairy you are BULKING. You have more freedom in your dietary choices.

Q: What are some good sources of Lean Protein?

A: Eggs, Fish, Chicken, Steak, Ground Beef, whey Protein, Turkey?.. the list goes on forever. Do a search and look through other people?s diets for ideas on protein

Q: What are some good sources of complex carbohydrates?

A: Rice, Pasta, Whole Wheat Bread, Yams, Oatmeal?. Same as above

As a final note we would like to thank SwoleCat and the rest of the diet forum participants for their help and influence on this post.

And we will end this sticky with a quote:

?Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same.?

*LMO & Rambo*


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Cheers m8 even though i did just register lol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hey Five-o, I like that dudes diet.

A few things Chris.

Too many Shakes, whole foods over shakes and processed foods.

Try to avoid the processed stuff.

Eat all your macro's together to avoid unnessary blood sugar spikes that are associated with carbohydrate meals and refined carbs.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

hackskii said:


> Hey Five-o, I like that dudes diet.
> 
> A few things Chris.
> 
> ...


yeah sorry Hacks, wasn't saying it was no good, but maybe a few improvements here and there


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Hacks sorry to sound  m8 but what do you mean by micros?

Sorry aint been doing this sort of thing for long


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

sorry macros lol


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

How about if in mornings i replace the protein shake with scrambled eggs and at night had something like cottage cheese or something else that is going to have slow absorbing protein qualities, any ideas on slow absorbing protein foods i can have before bed?


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Both would be fine Chris. Eggs before bed is good, as it peanut butter.

Macros are the break down of quantities per meal. IE the macros of Oats & Eggs would be: 50g Carbs, 30g Protein and 10g Fat - you get the idea?

In your original diet there seems to be a lot of sugar and processed foods as already stated. Better quality carbs would see a big improvement IMO.

I like the diet that was posted by Jimmy as it generally avoids high carb meals back to back. Usually protein & carbs followed protein & fats - gives plenty of chance for your insulin levels to settle.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

invisiblekid said:


> Both would be fine Chris. Eggs before bed is good, as it peanut butter.
> 
> Macros are the break down of quantities per meal. IE the macros of Oats & Eggs would be: 50g Carbs, 30g Protein and 10g Fat - you get the idea?
> 
> ...


Bingo, that is a great deffinition of macro's.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Ok cheers guys i will look at it and try and reevaluate the diet and will post it up after i have don't, any suggestions Scott i know you know your stuff please help as this diet took me ages to come up with!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

That is fine, I would rather give you a list of foods so you can design your own diet to suit your pallit.

I kind of think body builders need to vary their foods more, eat more fiber too.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

would you substitute the white rice for brown rice and same with the potato go for sweet potato with the exception of after a workout of course as i have read i need fast acting carbs here, or will white rice and also normal potato be ok?


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

wholemeal/basmati rice and sweet pots are the better choice.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

will they have as much effect though on my bulking than the white rice and normal potato's as i know that white rice and also normal potato's have more carbs to them than sweet potatos and brown rice, and i know that white rice and normal potato's are high in GI but i just want to gain good quality mass!


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Good quality mass comes from good quality food. Sweet potatoes and brown rice should be a staple of any BB diet IMO.

If by bulking you mean get fat - then sure go for anything you like - but if you mean solid lean mass try to keep to low GI foods with the added benefit of Vitamin B for example in brown rice.

Although people do react differently - it's all about experimentation.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

No as mentioned before i do want to get as much QUALITY mass as possible and by quality mass i dont mean fat, even though when gaining mass you gain some BF anyways its inevitable, but i want to keep my BF down while gaining muscle mass, Hacks what do you think mate?


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

chris,IK has already given you the correct advice.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Ok thanks, its just i thought that white rice would have been better as it contains more carbs plus its also fast digesting where as brown rice isn't, also a lot of the information i have been reading says that for bulking phase its best to use white rice and also normal potato's as i do usually go for sweet potato's as honestly i prefer them anyways (with the exception of post workout of course) as for the rice i ain't usually fussy but usually tend to go for brown its just that like i said i was reading/getting told from different places the white is better for bulk!


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

so is here any truth about the white rice and normal potato's being better for bulking or is a load of b0770cks?


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

sorry to keep asking but if i dont ask the questions then i guess i will never learn lol!


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Chris4Pez said:


> sorry to keep asking but if i dont ask the questions then i guess i will never learn lol!


no problem with asking questions but I suggest reading some info on glyceamic index or invest in a sports nutrition book. will pay dividends imo mate. depending on your metabolism and current size you could get away with white rice etc...though as mentioned brown would be the 'better' option.


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

invisiblekid said:


> Good quality mass comes from good quality food. Sweet potatoes and brown rice should be a staple of any BB diet IMO.
> 
> If by bulking you mean get fat - then sure go for anything you like - but if you mean solid lean mass try to keep to low GI foods with the added benefit of Vitamin B for example in brown rice.
> 
> Although people do react differently - it's all about experimentation.


Chris,white rice and jacket potatoes are generally considered a higher GI food and will subsequently spike insulin levels easier than the alternatives mentioned and so consequently this can lead to easier fat gains.However the overall GI of a meal will be affected by other added food groups such as protein,fat or fibre.

Basically higher GI foods are reccommended PWO.At other meals stick to lower sources such as wholemeal.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

PARAMANIAC said:


> Chris,white rice and jacket potatoes are generally considered a higher GI food and will subsequently spike insulin levels easier than the alternatives mentioned and so consequently this can lead to easier fat gains.However the overall GI of a meal will be affected by other added food groups such as protein,fat or fibre.
> 
> Basically higher GI foods are reccommended PWO.At other meals stick to lower sources such as wholemeal.


Yep as para pointed out, if your gonna have a jacket pot then have some veg (fibre) and some kinda fat with it (tuna and mayo for example) then it changes the gi anyway.

GI index is pretty useless from a bodybuilders point of view and is out dated.


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Bulldozer said:


> Yep as para pointed out, if your gonna have a jacket pot then have some veg (fibre) and some kinda fat with it (tuna and mayo for example) then it changes the gi anyway.
> 
> GI index is pretty useless from a bodybuilders point of view and is out dated.


Agreed Bully, but for beginers it's a good guide line. GL (Gycemic Load) is actually more applicable.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Chris4Pez said:


> so is here any truth about the white rice and normal potato's being better for bulking or is a load of b0770cks?


If you call blood sugar spiking and insulin spiking causing more storage of fat then yah

Invisible, you left out probably the big guns of carbohydrates, that would be oats, best and first on the list.

I would eat clean, yes you can diet down and gain some muscle while losing fat.

There just has to be a slight deficit in cals, this is why it is clean dieting.

So, yah it is possible but it will take dedication on training and dieting.

Once things are in place, slight modifications might need to be adjusted to suit results.

Not a problem really.

This is why so many weigh their food so they know down to the gram what they are eating.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah, there is the glycemic index, glycemic load, insulin load, but for the most part, choose lower GI foods when dieting, and you always can modify the glycemic load of any meal by adding fat and fiber.

Saturated fat can spike blood sugars, so everything in moderation.

Example:

Rice cakes are almost as high as sugar on the glycemic index (absense of fiber and also processing), but if you add peanut butter to that, it will lower the overall load of that rice cake making it acceptable.

Brown rice over white (for fiber and nutritional value),

Sweet potato over white (same as above),

Regular oats over instant (same as above),

Whole grain bread over white bread (same as above),

Cooking changes GI, processing changes GI, taking the fiber out of fruit (juice), changes GI.

Too many fast acting carbs and processed foods can result in insulin resistance, this is not good in anyones book.

Type II diabetes comes to mind here.

Fish oils lower insulin resistance, so does exercise.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Invisible, you left out probably the big guns of carbohydrates, that would be oats, best and first on the list.
> 
> This is why so many weigh their food so they know down to the gram what they are eating.


Oats are definitely my preferred carb choice..

Also a food diary and weighing your food is a good experience because 99% of people do not actually have an accurate figure for the cals and macros they are eating.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2007)

I really like that diet five-O nice one!


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Con said:


> I really like that diet five-O nice one!


wheres mi fvckin reps then.......pmsl

j/k


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2007)

Five-O said:


> wheres mi fvckin reps then.......pmsl
> 
> j/k


Done ya damn smart ****:gun:


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Con said:


> Done ya damn smart ****:gun:


lol  cheers Irish


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Any appreciable difference between 'whole' oats & powdered ones?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

SCJP said:


> Any appreciable difference between 'whole' oats & powdered ones?


Glycemic index for one.

Less vitamins and minerals.

less fiber for the heart.

Insulin resistance.

Always, Always choose whole foods over processed ones.


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks Hackskii.

I was thinking of the powdered ones that (I believe) are just the 'raw' oat chopped up (I think you guys might call them 'rolled' oats).

Is this what you thought I meant, or the ones that get sold in breakfast cereal boxes?


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

SCJP said:


> Thanks Hackskii.
> 
> I was thinking of the powdered ones that (I believe) are just the 'raw' oat chopped up (I think you guys might call them 'rolled' oats).
> 
> Is this what you thought I meant, or the ones that get sold in breakfast cereal boxes?


I can't see there being any difference between lets say, MP ground scottish oats and oats out of a bag from Tesco's. There the same but ground. The only difference is you won't have to bother chewin em'


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Doesn't matter which scjp. Essentially, if uncooked and blended you increase the GI due to increase surface area I believe.

I guess blended oats would be fine once per day if you can't get a bowl of porridge down you. Better still use a combination of oats with Palatinose if you have to have a shake.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Your all just getting too technical, bloody oats are oats, whether ground up or whole, Id say there wouldn't be much wrong with having ground oats several times a day along with a protein source.

Ive grown on having 3 shakes per day with 100g of oats and 50g whey, plus my other whole meals.


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

Five-O said:


> Your all just getting too technical, bloody oats are oats, whether ground up or whole, Id say there wouldn't be much wrong with having ground oats several times a day along with a protein source.
> 
> Ive grown on having 3 shakes per day with 100g of oats and 50g whey, plus my other whole meals.


PMSL.

Well said. People do get wrapped up in the smallest of things!!


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks lads.

I was starting to get a little worried that by powdering the oats some of their magic was somehow being removed.:crazy:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oats are not oats.

Instant oats have the highest GI of any of them.

Why do you suppose this is so?

Lets see if someone gets the answer, but there is more than just one answer.

Reps to the chap that figures this out.

Cheers


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Its all to do with how fast they get broken down in the body and digested! the faster this happens the higher the GI


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

instant oats have a higher gi due to the fact that their absorption rate is much quicker than regular oats


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

Also id they are instant oats a lot of the time these oats are either made from the cheapest oats or worse they are cheaply created by adding a lot of other high Gi things e.g quaker oats put a lot of sugar in without stating it etc this also causes high GI on instant oats!


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

It may also have something to do with the fact that have beed processed into instant oats aswell, as many processed foods tend to have a higher GI range than if they were just normal (dont know the full reason for this but i think that it may have something to do with the actual processing proceedure)


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

Good effort Chris! scott will be pleased!

The processing will affect the fibre levels which subsequently affects the absorption rate


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

cheers m8 its just that scott said there was a few reasons and the only ones i can find are the ones i have listed i dont know if there are any more!


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Hackskii, these are what I'm referring to:

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/product.php?xProd=129&xSec=24

Easier to get down your neck, but surely they retain the benefits of normal oats, only without the mastication?

(before I get knocked for plugging BP, they can be procured cheaper elsewhere)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Chris4Pez said:


> Its all to do with how fast they get broken down in the body and digested! the faster this happens the higher the GI


Correct but why is really the answer I was looking for.



PARAMANIAC said:


> instant oats have a higher gi due to the fact that their absorption rate is much quicker than regular oats


Yes but why is absorption faster?



Chris4Pez said:


> Also id they are instant oats a lot of the time these oats are either made from the cheapest oats or worse they are cheaply created by adding a lot of other high Gi things e.g quaker oats put a lot of sugar in without stating it etc this also causes high GI on instant oats!


True, many of them are flavored, usually something to make the sweet, but if all things being the same between instant and longer cooking oats why the higher GI?



Chris4Pez said:


> It may also have something to do with the fact that have beed processed into instant oats aswell, as many processed foods tend to have a higher GI range than if they were just normal (dont know the full reason for this but i think that it may have something to do with the actual processing proceedure)


Absolutly correct, processing any food would raise the GI, there is one other factor at play here.



PARAMANIAC said:


> Good effort Chris! scott will be pleased!
> 
> The processing will affect the fibre levels which subsequently affects the absorption rate


Impressive, you are absolutly correct.

And when we speak of processing it could be something as little as eating fruit that has been cooked or juiced, juicing removes the fiber which in turn raises the GI, cooking raises GI too, that is in practice a process.

Like meat.

Ground beef is ground up so the chewing involved is minimised, also eating the ground beef will be consumed faster due to the ease of eating.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Impressive brainstorming guys....

Reps to all.


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Are the oats I linked to really that inferior to 'whole' oats?


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

Im with Jimmy on this one, yes maybe it'll alter the GI *slightly* if you ground them or whatever....but for chris4pez, near enough any oats would be fine aslong as he's hitting his macro's (he's bulking i believe?)

Out of the lot of them, MP's fine oats would be great if he couldn't get them down....its handy knowing the technical boll*cks but for beginners, confusing and for the most part....un-needed.

IMO of course


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

As far as im aware nothing whatsoever gets done to the oats from either Myprotein or Bulkpowders scottish oats apart from being ground up for the single use of being incorporated into a shake.

Nytol posted on here somewhere that he'd read or seen a program saying that shakes in general tend to leave us feeling fuller for longer, maybe they take the same time to digest....I dunno.


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## Five-O (May 21, 2006)

Chris4Pez said:


> Its all to do with how fast they get broken down in the body and digested! the faster this happens the higher the GI


The ground oats arn't instant Scott, just natural oats ground for using in a shake for ease of taking them in mate.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think the steel ground oats would probbly be the best, but they take forever to cook.

Anytime you blend something it raises the GI due to faster absorbing.

When you eat, it takes a while before the stomach tells the brain you dont need more food.

That is one of the problems with dense calorie foods, overfeeding is more common.

Take time to mastacise(sp) your food.


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Even if the GI of finely ground/powdered/whatever oats is raised due to this process, should they not still be better for you than cooked ones due to the fact that you are consuming them raw, without them undergoing this additional process?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Good question.

Probably micronizing the oats would hinder the job of fiber.

Not sure really, just guessing.


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

I too have trouble gaining weight I am stuck at 67 kilo i really would like to hit 75 kilo by january next year  any help?


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## offo (Apr 10, 2006)

jsut gna give five-os diet a read over see if it suits my needs  How would i make the portions smaller seems i dont weight 210 pounds but only 145 pounds max!!!


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

offo said:


> How would i make the portions smaller


Errrrrrm....ooo...bit of a tricky one that eh?

Heres a fkin brainwave - scale the size down and dont eat as much!:crazy:


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

ah24 said:


> Errrrrrm....ooo...bit of a tricky one that eh?
> 
> Heres a fkin brainwave - scale the size down and dont eat as much!:crazy:


Don't be daft.

Shouldn't he just put an extra 65 pounds or whatever in his pockets when he ways himself?

A 15kg plate in each hand should do it.

Problem solved.

Offo, you can now eat exactly what Five-O suggests without worrying.


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

SCJP said:


> Don't be daft.
> 
> Shouldn't he just put an extra 65 pounds or whatever in his pockets when he ways himself?
> 
> ...


Man, with ideas like that I bet ah24 feels stupid now!


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

yh m8 to be hinest if you are looking to gain mass i dont think that eating more than you require would harm, just keep an eye on BF thats all, and if that starts to increse drastically then just cut back a little on the fats and carbs!


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

invisiblekid said:


> Man, with ideas like that I bet ah24 feels stupid now!


Damn, you know what - you guys are too good! IK read my mind and SCJP came up with like the best idea ever!! 

Offo, stick with our advice son and ya cant go far wrong:love:

Sooooo SCJP, any more little gems up your sleeve, perhaps one that may benefit daps?!


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

ah24 said:


> Sooooo SCJP, any more little gems up your sleeve, perhaps one that may benefit daps?!


You've got me stumped there.

Helping Offo is one thing, but Daps, that's going to be hard!

I am trying this new squatting technique, don't know if it'll work for lil' Dapsy, but I definitely feel stronger after today's session:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/25591-tabatas.html#post327015


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