# IGF-1 LR3 or IGF-1 DES 1-3?



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

As above.

LR3 = longer half life, acts more like insulin

DES = shorter half life and so more likely to work locally in terms of satellite cells and muscle growth and less chance of hitting the intestines own receptors for IGF.

So as a simple matter of fact, DES a better option? Any downsides I'm missing?

Opinions please!


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

DES has to be IM, LR3 can be subq if you'd rather.

DES is cheaper, but less of an established track record

thats all i know... hope that helps slightly


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## jjcooper (Sep 1, 2010)

bump


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Papa Lazarou said:


> As above.
> 
> LR3 = longer half life, acts more like insulin
> 
> ...


i question that LR3 acts like insulin? no Injected IGF works locally more than any other as both will go systematic once injected into the muscle of SubQ, Dat has a theory that injecting multiple times in one area increases the local growth but this is more for repair than growth.

i would question using any IGF around training now as it interferes with MGF proliferation...

as for which is better i think it is a swings and roundabout question neither gives significant growth, i preferred IGF-LR3 over DES in fact i questioned what all the hype was around DES when i used it.


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## jjcooper (Sep 1, 2010)

So for a cost to gain ratio as well, IGF would not be worthwhile?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

jjcooper said:


> So for a cost to gain ratio as well, IGF would not be worthwhile?


for cost to gain ratio the only peptide i would say for the average user would be peptides at 3 or 5 times per day (assuming steroids are not in the mix) gains/ results from peptides like MGF/IGF are extremely small you will get a pump from both but this is not a result it is a temporary thing although some believe this to be muscle growth


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Ill just add my 2p worth even though Pscarb has covered most

They should be looked at as two different peptides

Des injected Just pre w/o or after warm up set also can be used a second time half way through w/out ..gains from this not sure maybe small but you will get pump

*(How i have used it Not suggesting it and probably goes against most advice on the net 50mcg in front 50mcg in side and 50mcg in rear on each side thanks to the wife just after delt warm up set .. high doses but i feel to get noticeable feelings its needed and build doses up as time goes on 20 day cycles )*

*
*

My preferred peptide to use is Lr3 i suggest never using these peptides that attach to stem cells sub q , always IM ..Lets think about it for a second say you inject in to your delt the IGF goes systematic attaching to stem cells in the delt first then bi's tris back ect then others as it goes all around the body hopefully not the ones in the gut (witch has a lot)

So if you jab Lr3 sub q in the stomach ok it hits abs some goes legs but what worries me is the ab wall is thin ant the peptide will seep through to the stomach stem cells .. another thing that backs up the argument with pros and GH gut not believing this my self but just saying

Always suggested using 1 hour min post w/o as to not interfere with natty Mgf production esp wile using Mgf post w/o also

*(How ive used Not suggesting just giving a example .. I use it 2 ways 20-30 day cycles build up the doses starting at 200mcg per side and build up after 1 hour ppwo meal in to muscle's trained . or second is 50mcg per side in delts for anti inflammatory proprietaries wile having RC problems on non and training days ..works well )*

As for gains from these IGF's i don't feel you will notice to much permanent gains like steroids but i feel Lr3 you lean up at higher doses and body comp changes and more lean muscle gained. they are part of the big picture and best used when androgens are high mid cycle

Des is comparable to taking 30-40mg of dbol 1hour pre w/out

As stated this is my view


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## adpolice (Oct 27, 2011)

Well real des is probably the better option but it is very expensive..BTW i'm talking about real igf...from a real source(biotech manufactor)


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

des1 shot at 50mcg x 4-5 times daily works very well, nice site fullness and from a personal point of view, better than lr3

Couple with peptides, 100mcg/100mcg ghrp2/cjc w/i dac....it is really good stuff.


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> des1 shot at 50mcg x 4-5 times daily works very well, nice site fullness and from a personal point of view, better than lr3
> 
> Couple with peptides, 100mcg/100mcg ghrp2/cjc w/i dac....it is really good stuff.


des1 shot at 50mcg x 4-5 times daily works very well

Ive herd this but not seen anything to back it up also the same with using Lr3 3 times a day ?


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

in other words, it's a waste of money?


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

sauliuhas said:


> in other words, it's a waste of money?


No not a waist if they are used when you are at a stage that you will benefit from running these peptides


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

well if on stage, we are talking about more definition more fibers and etc.. is that what it gives? would it be worth taking 4wks (2mg) at about 80mcg/day + hgh @ 4iu + slin up 10-20iu.. + bulking or cutting cycle would be better?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

IGF no matter which one stops proliferation of the MGF receptor which begins this process after training this is not what you want so those who take IGF around your workout you doing it wrong....


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## Muscletech (Apr 7, 2012)

better option post wo is peg mgf..


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> IGF no matter which one stops proliferation of the MGF receptor which begins this process after training this is not what you want so those who take IGF around your workout you doing it wrong....


How do you run your Lr3 out of interest mate

Also have you herd of running Lr3 x 3 times a day in small doses ..or is this a us fad


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Muscletech said:


> better option post wo is peg mgf..


Disagree mate MGF is more suited to post workout ..Peg version is best utilised in the AM on days you don't train pos x 2 a week


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## Muscletech (Apr 7, 2012)

Why? change only it's half-life.. I don't see a good reason to do only in the AM.. I think Pegylated version is more effective post wo, than without PEG..

Check my guide here(i don't write that): http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/muscle-research-peptides/193024-guide-igf-1-lr3-des-peg-mgf.html#post3439994


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

is it pointless to run mgf and igf on its own(+ghrp and cjc)? as i've just finished course, and now pct time, if it's not that beneficial to use those two compounds, I'd wait till my next course..


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## Muscletech (Apr 7, 2012)

I've read many times that LR3 should be help for maintaning the size.. maybe give them a try..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

thoon said:


> How do you run your Lr3 out of interest mate
> 
> Also have you herd of running Lr3 x 3 times a day in small doses ..or is this a us fad


i would not do it due to desensitization, when i use IGF-1LR3 and i don't often as i see it not very good at muscle building i us it the morning after the workout so that MGF can do its job post workout (be that natural MGF or synthetic)



Muscletech said:


> Why? change only it's half-life.. I don't see a good reason to do only in the AM.. I think Pegylated version is more effective post wo, than without PEG..
> 
> Check my guide here(i don't write that): http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/muscle-research-peptides/193024-guide-igf-1-lr3-des-peg-mgf.html#post3439994


why do YOU think it is better to use a drug that needs to cleave off the peg before it starts to work? if you are taking IGF post or pre workout then you are getting zero from it apart from a pump.......but you need to find this out for yourself i have used IGF for 5yrs at least and i can tell you pound for pound it is not a cost effective.



Muscletech said:


> I've read many times that LR3 should be help for maintaning the size.. maybe give them a try..


nope how can it maintain size? it gives a pump that will give the impression of holding size but you could point me in the direction of a study (not an opinion) to show the mechanics of IGF-1 to hold size from a steroid cycle i am more than willing to learn new things.

guys if you have an injury then MGF is awesome, if you want to add a small amount of muscle and stay lean then peptides but IGF in my opinion is a waste.


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

there u go, true opinion about igf thanx Paul..


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i would not do it due to desensitization, when i use IGF-1LR3 and i don't often as i see it not very good at muscle building i us it the morning after the workout so that MGF can do its job post workout (be that natural MGF or synthetic)
> 
> why do YOU think it is better to use a drug that needs to cleave off the peg before it starts to work? if you are taking IGF post or pre workout then you are getting zero from it apart from a pump.......but you need to find this out for yourself i have used IGF for 5yrs at least and i can tell you pound for pound it is not a cost effective.
> 
> ...


Agree with desensitization that's what i thought on the matter thought id get a second opinion .. only times ive used it multi times a day is when i was reducing inflammation in my RC

The ways i have/do used it are 1.30-2 hrs post w/o when Mgf levels have fallen enough for the Lr3 to not interfere with production or the other way is 12 hours pre w/out .. both seem equal in returns

MGF when i use this as pscarb has said post w/out is the best time


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

Muscletech said:


> Why? change only it's half-life.. I don't see a good reason to do only in the AM.. I think Pegylated version is more effective post wo, than without PEG..
> 
> Check my guide here(i don't write that): http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/muscle-research-peptides/193024-guide-igf-1-lr3-des-peg-mgf.html#post3439994


Muscletech im not going to get in to a argument about this guide as i do have respect for Mike but on the other hand you have to remember that there is motives surrounding some of the us boards ..Not that i think this is a issue it works for them ,,

but you would be better reading some medical studies on how these Peptides work and then some on how the body produces them naturally so with all this info you will then be able to decide how you can either enhance natural production or extend the natural production for better results ..


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## Muscletech (Apr 7, 2012)

I know there are some IFBB pro's who take 100mcg of peg ED (I think it's a waste).. I believe in what the people do (especially pro's, and what mike says since I think it's the best knowledgeable user), but I always study the researchs..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i read a good thread over on Dats site concerning IGF-1 and that there is no proof it causes muscle growth in trained adults, yes it can help in PCT with recovery and can help with insulin sensitivity so not a waste but not the muscle building peptides many (including me in the past) believe..........(i am talking about synthetic IGF-1LR3 not natural obviously)


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Paul,peg mgf or mgf for injuries,and do you need to take anything with it,or ok on its own.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mal MGF mate my shoulder is nearly totally healed with the use of MGF and Thymosin Beta 4 (i use GH all the time as well)


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> Mal MGF mate my shoulder is nearly totally healed with the use of MGF and Thymosin Beta 4 (i use GH all the time as well)


cheers paul il look up thymosin too,do you site inject mgf into injury or just go subq as normal in the stomach?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

IM mate


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## taylorSoCal (Mar 18, 2013)

Jim78 said:


> des1 shot at 50mcg x 4-5 times daily works very well, nice site fullness and from a personal point of view, better than lr3
> 
> Couple with peptides, 100mcg/100mcg ghrp2/cjc w/i dac....it is really good stuff.


Jim78 do you use the lr3 des IM or sub? ON ghrp2 and cjc no dac 2x a day


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

taylorSoCal said:


> Jim78 do you use the lr3 des IM or sub? ON ghrp2 and cjc no dac 2x a day


when I ran this i just did des on its own mate and no peptides if I remember rightly.

with peps id just run pre-wo or post wo as it would conflict with the peptides.


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## thoon (Apr 4, 2010)

taylorSoCal said:


> Jim78 do you use the lr3 des IM or sub? ON ghrp2 and cjc no dac 2x a day


Des IM pre w/out in the muscle to be trained ..If funds allow a further Des jab mid w/out ...sub q is waisted IMO


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