# Performance enhancing drug discussion: MK-677



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Use this thread to discuss, ask and answer questions regarding

MK-677 (Ibutamoren, MK)

Ibutamoren is a potent, long-acting, orally-active, selective, and non-peptide agonist of the ghrelin receptor and a growth hormone secretagogue, mimicking the growth hormone-stimulating action of the endogenous hormone ghrelin.

Esters:



N/A oral medication


Route of administration:



Oral


*post your experiences with this compound in regards to:

cycle length, dosage and other compounds used if applicable.
side effects you physically noticed and blood work results.
how you rate the compound overall / comparisons to other compounds of similar nature, your overall gains vs the side effects.*

(keep discussion largely centered to the subject matter, excessive derailing will be deleted)


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

I've already done a write up in my meat head's guide to mk 677 so I will just directly quote that since I covered all I wanted to

"Fed up of getting tagged in every MK 677 thread so figured I'd put together a meat head's guide to it so you can start referencing this instead of tagging me as this is the extent of my knowledge on MK 677 / Ibutamoren *(im going to refer to MK 677 as MK throughout the remainder of this post) *

I am far from an expert on MK, ive ran it several times, seen and performed some blood work on it and done some light reading but im endlessly tagged all the same so here's what i know:

MK is a growth hormone secretagogue similar to GHRP 6
it releases multiple pulses of GH throughout its active life of 4-6 hours however IGF will remain elevated for a total of 18-24 hours

MK has a direct effect on the ghrelin receptor similar to GHRP 6 which is why a lot of people will experience an increase in appetite when using these compounds

MK increases HGH and subsequent IGF (via conversion) both on paper and anecdotally many of the same benefits of exogenous HGH have been reported on MK but just like peptides there is a ceiling to the amount of release you can achieve over a 24hr period which is why these peptides and secretagogues will never replace exogenous HGH

so onto the pros and cons

Pros: 
basically just all the benefits of elevated GH; improved sleep, sense of well being, small assistance in fat loss if already in a deficit, slight recomposition effects, better skin, increased recovery between workouts, pumps in the gym and improved appetite (being that it acts on the ghrelin receptor as previously mentioned)

Cons: 
lethargy, water retention, extreme appetite increase leading to over eating (can be viewed as a pro or a con really) and then the big one i always harp on about.. elevated blood glucose

to divulge further into the sides and why i do not like MK for the vast majority of people

in my own personal experience the lethargy can be on par to a harsh oral cycle, i've literally had it where all i've wanted to do is sleep all day and even walking to the shops is monumental chore

water retention to the point of breathing issues and pitting edema

insatiable appetite which can lead to MASSIVE binges creating too large a surplus resulting in excessive fat gain whilst bulking or just simply cheating on your diet when cutting

all of the above seem to be person dependent and some experience worse so than others whilst some not at all however the big dog of the sides caused by MK 
elevated fasted blood glucose in some cases to pre diabetic levels or in the worse case i've seen actually went into what is considered diabetic by the NHS
his was by a poster on here who had a fasted reading of 7mmol after 6 months usage

for reference 5.6 is considered normal, 5.7 to 6.9mmol is considered pre diabetic and 7+ is considered diabetic readings of fasted blood glucose which means your pancreas is not clearing blood sugars as it should be which eventually will if left unaddressed result in beta cell death and metformin or insulin dependence (diabetes)

I cannot say this enough that MK should not be ran without either a solid combination GDA like glycomax or matador, metformin or exogenous insulin unless ran at a low dose (10 - 15mg) and with regular fasted blood glucose tests that you act on immediately if BG comes back elevated.

in terms of dosage i personally have used 10mg up to 50mg but 25mg seems to be the general recommended dosage for balance between sides and desired effects 
my experience with each

10mg - improved sleep
25mg - elevated HGH benefits as listed above
50mg - no notable increase in positives ime but a heavy increase in side effects as listed above

the best possible stack i found with MK and would recommend to those that have experience using insulin to use

* 25mg MK 677 per day to cover your GHRP 
* 4mg of cjc 1295 with dac split to 2mg x2 per week to cover your GHRH 
* 30-50iu lantus today to cover blood glucose

to be ran no longer than 6 weeks but ideally for 4 at the end of a cycle to finish off

if you have no experience with insulin (particularly lantus) do not run the above, use metformin at 500mg daily alongside the CJC and MK and adjust accordingly to blood glucose readings that you will take once weekly fasted

for more information on the benefits of taking a GHRH alongside a GHRP

http://www.teampscarb.co.uk/index.php/the-very-basic-guide-to-ghrpghrh-peptides/

my biggest gripe with MK is it essentially has the benefits of a low dose of HGH with the side effects of a very high dose of HGH.

take home point with MK 677 if you read nothing else:
*MONITOR YOUR BLOOD GLUCOSE WEEKLY WHILST ON MK 677 AND ACT IMMEDIATELY ON ABNORMAL READINGS"*


----------



## Matt83 (May 5, 2015)

Used to have a bit of a love hate relationship with MK but iv now figured out how best to use it for my body and find it a great compound.

First time I used it - During bulk with 1g test and 1g deca I ran 8iu of HGH mon, wed, fri with MK at 25mg on the other days and 15iu of fast acting insulin 4 times a week post workout. After a month of this I started to get bad reactive hypoglycaemia on non insulin days which culminated in a bad hypo that left me face down in a supermarket with my misses trying to pour lukazade down my throat. Stopped all HGH, MK and insulin immediately but it took a few months for the hypos to go away. At the time their was little mentioned online about how MK can trash insulin sensitivity and I also knew f**k all about reactive hypos so was freaking the f**k out as It was happening on days when Id not taken insulin. Steep learning curve.

Second run - Again during bulk with 1g test and 25mg of MK a day. Was going really well as this time I was using 300mg of R-ALA 3 times a day before carb heavy meals so no hypos. Then my degenerated lumbar discs started playing up and my doctor put me on high dose Naproxen. Within a few days I had gained almost 4 stone in water retention and my blood pressure was through the roof, felt like death. Dropped test down to trt and discontinued MK and Naproxen which allowed the water to start leaving but took about 2 weeks to clear properly.

Third and if it didn't go well, final run - Currently running on a cut. Using 25mg of MK per day along side 400mg test. Also using 300mg R-ALA twice a day with pre and post workout carbs. Fasting from waking (6am) until lunch time then having pre and post carbs. Recently added 50mcg T3, 50mcg clen and 25mg yohimbine before fasted am cardio. Weight is flying off, muscles staying full and pumps and strength is amazing. Think iv cracked how best to run this stuff, well for me at least anyway.

As for the usual MK sides -

Hunger - yea it does make you hungry but that effect wears off after a week or two plus I find it controllable. I don't understand it when people say it caused them to eat everything in their cupboards. I find willpower and coffee deal with the hunger easily enough.

Bloat - lowering the carbs this time has removed all the problems with bloat and water retention. Also don't run MK along side strong NSAIDs!

Blood sugar - probably the biggest issue with MK. Use glucose disposal agents with carb heavy meals, don't run it along side HGH or GH releasing peptides (or at least monitor blood glucose if you do) and don't stay on it for months at a time.

Sleep - bit of a funny one, most people report improved sleep on MK but I'm one of the few that regardless of what time I take it I get broken sleep. Few mg of melatonin fixes this.

So after a rocky start with this stuff I think iv finally figured out how I can best use it and I feel it really makes a difference whilst cutting. Don't think I'll use it whilst bulking again. For me lower carbs has really been the key to using this stuff.

As a side note my wife's been running 5mg a day and after a month the condition of her skin and hair is amazing, plus she gets no sides at this dose.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Matt83 said:


> ...t this dose.


 so similar to my opinion in that it doesn't do a great deal in exchange for a whole lot of serious side effects

people need to remember that all these periods of walking around with elevated bg is a heavy strain on the pancreas and even in naturals they're now starting to prescribe metformin as part of logevity treatment because our beta cells are taking a battering from the unnatural carbohydrate intake of people these days

you throw mk677 on top of that and leave BG unaddressed and it wont be long before those beta cells start burning out.

blood glucose issues (usually from excessive prolonged GH usage) are why you get these bodybuilders with diabetes NOT exogenous insulin use which many wrongfully believe to be the case

the insulin is actually helping to relieve those beta cells 
the problem with insulin comes from using it as bandaid to your rising blood glucose for extended periods of time without addressing the underlying cause of.

your approach with close monitoring during a caloric deficit alongside fasted cardio and glucose disposal agents with carb heavy meals is probably the only time I'd advise MK677 use without a basal insulin


----------



## Barry0121 (Oct 13, 2019)

Have run mk677 in the past longest I had ever ran it was 8months at 20mg and food it helped with my appetite and slight sleep quality. As a little helper during pct and off cycle would I run it again

I would say yes for the face it helped me keep some size on when coming off .


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Barry0121 said:


> Have run mk677 in the past longest I had ever ran it was 8months at 20mg and food it helped with my appetite and slight sleep quality. As a little helper during pct and off cycle would I run it again
> 
> I would say yes for the face it helped me keep some size on when coming off .


 Did you check your blood glucose at any point during this 8 month period?


----------



## Barry0121 (Oct 13, 2019)

swole troll said:


> Did you check your blood glucose at any point during this 8 month period?


 I did get it a check inbetween about 3months in after my pct and towards the end of the mk after 7 8months of 20mg and all was fine was using mutantlabz mk 1 pill before dinner and 1 a few hours before bed


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Barry0121 said:


> I did get it a check inbetween about 3months in after my pct and towards the end of the mk after 7 8months of 20mg and all was fine was using mutantlabz mk 1 pill before dinner and 1 a few hours before bed


 That's fortunate

Most would have blood like maple syrup after that long on mk677


----------



## Barry0121 (Oct 13, 2019)

swole troll said:


> That's fortunate
> 
> Most would have blood like maple syrup after that long on mk677


 I was unaware of the glucose issues related to it at the time and had never given it a go.

A pal of mine got a little supplement shop and during pct was trying and implementing some supplementation to hold on to as much gains I had put on reason I have mk677 a go


----------



## thecoms (Nov 1, 2010)

How does it work alongside HGH or is it one or the other ?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

thecoms said:


> How does it work alongside HGH or is it one or the other ?


 I don't believe it does or at least not in a cost effective way since gh will shut down your natural production

You could do a piggy back approach like with peptides however as I said before this isn't cost effect since you will be losing all the subsequent endogenous pulses of gh whilst suppressed by the exogenous gh


----------



## smiddy444 (Feb 18, 2017)

Any recommendations on good brands for MK?

Mate of mine has tried TWP (The Warrior Project) and said it was good, but it seems rather "branded" and therefore I'm thinking it's on the pricey side.

Following @swole troll's advice too and buying a glucose monitor (£20 in Boots).


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

smiddy444 said:


> Any recommendations on good brands for MK?
> 
> Mate of mine has tried TWP (The Warrior Project) and said it was good, but it seems rather "branded" and therefore I'm thinking it's on the pricey side.
> 
> Following @swole troll's advice too and buying a glucose monitor (£20 in Boots).


 personally I've only used

DNA
the warrior project 
and nexus

all to good effect
but this was quite some time ago

with all the monitoring, GDAs and or insulin I'd rather just grab a cheap kit of generics and save myself the hassle, health impact and probably money tbf


----------



## smiddy444 (Feb 18, 2017)

swole troll said:


> personally I've only used
> 
> DNA
> the warrior project
> ...


 Thanks for the response. TWP it is. And I'll only be doing 10mg a day to feel it out. Not massively fussed over it.

I'll be using a blood glucose monitor like I say, but will instantly stop if it gets high.

No way on earth would I f**k around with insulin. Along with DNP I consider that "potential suicide" territory.


----------



## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

Anyone experienced Kidney ache from MK?

Been getting some grief this week despite drinking 7L+ water a day - only notable change is that I've upped MK from 20mg ED to 30mg.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Ironman TS said:


> drinking 7L+ water a day


 I don't know but 7 litres of water a day? 2 litres is plenty unless you are sweating a lot. Even in the summer I wouldn't drink that much. I can (well used) to put more away in the form of lager but alcohol is a diuretic. Maybe others can help but I'd probably drop the water to 3 litres to start with


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ironman TS said:


> Anyone experienced Kidney ache from MK?
> 
> Been getting some grief this week despite drinking 7L+ water a day - only notable change is that I've upped MK from 20mg ED to 30mg.


 I hope you're replacing your electrolytes drinking that much water

7+ litres is insane

I drink a lot (4-5l) but I weigh around 260, consume around 10g of salt per day, plenty of potassium and sweat a lot! during training and cardio.

're your concern you should get your values tested of you think your kidneys may be compromised

Just go to your GP and express your concerns

Aside from water retention driving blood pressure up there is no direct way MK should be taxing your kidneys


----------



## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

Cheers lads.

Regarding fluid intake - it's unusually high at the moment because I'm dieting (helps me hugely with cravings) and I'm doing 60 minutes cardio a day at 280lbs so sweating like a mofo! I'm normally in the 3L-4L range daily and get plenty of salt and potassium in my diet.

I asked the question regarding MK as the dull Kidney ache has coincided with me upping the dosage which seemed a bit of a coincidence. Could just as easily be the SD I'm taking too but it's never given me any problems historically. Seems to have passed now but will speak to my Dr if it persists.


----------



## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

Dropped it over the weekend after realising just how much water I was holding - dropped 7lbs within 2 days.

Not for me thanks.


----------



## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

Make that 10lbs in 3 days!


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Ironman TS said:


> Make that 10lbs in 3 days!


 yeah it's no good for you

retaining water like that is a hell of a strain on the heart.

MK677 is a very side heavy compound with minimal return on investment


----------



## Ironman TS (Nov 22, 2015)

Really surprised me how dramatic the sides can be. I like to try everything once but I won't be going near this again.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

@Abc987 recent experience and documenting of his blood glucose further backing that monitoring is a must with ibutamoren.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/345491-my-experience-so-far-with-dark-ghost-mk677-and-the-affects-it%E2%80%99s-had-on-blood-glucose-levels/?do=embed


----------



## Dannyb0yb (Nov 28, 2017)

Sasnak said:


> I don't know but 7 litres of water a day? 2 litres is plenty unless you are sweating a lot. Even in the summer I wouldn't drink that much. I can (well used) to put more away in the form of lager but alcohol is a diuretic. Maybe others can help but I'd probably drop the water to 3 litres to start with


 Yea 7 l sounds dangerous


----------

