# Do I have sciatica or a muscle knot



## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

I've recently done something to my lowerback and I'm unable to train...I hate doing this online symptom checker thing but its the fastest way to get an idea of what problem I have and how much its going to cost.

I've emailed a few sport massage therapists and physiotherapist with mixed responses some have said they believe I have sciatica or maybe a muscle knot and that a massage will help...while others think a massage is out of the question and I need extensive physiotherapy :confused1:

Anyway my symptoms are basically a sharp pain that shoots down my left side lower back and glute whenever I do anything strenuous, it almost feels like an "electrocution" type pain which completely incapacitates me for a short while (I have to lie down for a good 10 minutes before I can stand, then I'm fine) it is not a constant pain but only triggered during exertion such as sprints etc.

The electrocution type pain I get makes me think its neural but people also describe a muscle knot with an electrocuting stabbing pain also

Anyone experienced anythingg like this and what did you do?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

You got any numbness or tingling?


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Smitch said:


> You got any numbness or tingling?


nope...and it also does not go down my legs or to my toes which I believe sciatica does?...its only triggered when I activate my posterior chain...deadlifts, glute bridging etc...glute bridges is how I actually triggered it...felt like someone shot me in the back with a tazer...so I lied down in the gym for 10 minutes before I could finally stand lol...I'm 23 aswell, how embarssing ha


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

sciatica or other inflamed nerve condition , prob lower back .

you will need an MRI to find the exact location.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

aqualung said:


> sciatica or other inflamed nerve condition , prob lower back .
> 
> you will need an MRI to find the exact location.


is Sciatica something you can fix through the NHS or is it a "just rest" case?


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## amy_robin (Jun 2, 2014)

You need to go and have an assesment firstly with a sports injuries consultant who will then refer you for mri scan and physiotherapy

The location and acuteness of pain you are describing is atributable to sciatica but it could also be something like a crushed lumbar trapping a nerve but that would be constant


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## amy_robin (Jun 2, 2014)

As for treatment...you need to try nsaids so....ibuprofen codeine etc have a try with hot or cold packs too...the doc may also prescribe if its really chronic....amitryptaline which used to be used as an antidepressant type drug but commonly now as a nerve relaxant similar to gabapentine which was for epilepsy I believe but again is a nerve relaxant they may also prescribe an anti inflamatory like naproxen too


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## Natalie (Jul 22, 2014)

Im a sports massage therapist and although as said above sounds like sciatica I would advise you to see a gp just to be certain. Although I woukd guve you an initial massage which woukd show you within minutes if it is solely soft tissue related


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Piriformis syndrome caused by neural tension of sciatic nerve.

Search for Piriformis syndrome, if this sounds correct, perform Piriformis stretches as many times a day as you can. My pain went in a week. Amazing.


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## amy_robin (Jun 2, 2014)

Huntingground said:


> Piriformis syndrome caused by neural tension of sciatic nerve.
> 
> Search for Piriformis syndrome, if this sounds correct, perform Piriformis stretches as many times a day as you can. My pain went in a week. Amazing.


Hi HG!! Not heard of this before will have a look myself


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

I have a similar problem,have done for years,sciatica.Some days it's fine others I literally have to stand on one leg to ease the pain,I have a way of easing it off that is not good practice,that is to pin my glute deep on that side with 2 ml test,it gives me a few days pain free workouts.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

gearchange said:


> I have a similar problem,have done for years,sciatica.Some days it's fine others I literally have to stand on one leg to ease the pain,I have a way of easing it off that is not good practice,that is to pin my glute deep on that side with 2 ml test,it gives me a few days pain free workouts.


ha thats one way to do it


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## jadakiss2009 (Aug 21, 2012)

My g.f has been to the docs thismorning with tge same symptoms and he reckons its sciatica she will be going physio but its a two month waiting list.. he has said she needs to take anti inflammatorys


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## sciatic (May 24, 2014)

Sciatica ...It can go then return time after time. If it's a serious case, the sooner you have it treated mate the better. Once Sciatica goes too far it's a point of no return. Look at the link I've posted...Then go from there re your research http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/sciatica/Pages/Introduction.aspx I do sincerely hope it's not chronic sciatica, as you will recover.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

sciatic said:


> Sciatica ...It can go then return time after time. If it's a serious case, the sooner you have it treated mate the better. Once Sciatica goes too far it's a point of no return. Look at the link I've posted...Then go from there re your research http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/sciatica/Pages/Introduction.aspx I do sincerely hope it's not chronic sciatica, as you will recover.


How is it treated though...everyone tells me go to doctors they will give you painkillers ...I don't care about the pain I want it gone so I can train


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## sciatic (May 24, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> How is it treated though...everyone tells me go to doctors they will give you painkillers ...I don't care about the pain I want it gone so I can train


It's a complicated scenario mate. F*cking horrible to experience too. Everyone responds to this unfortunate occurrence differently depending on the severity. Painkillers are just that...They help alleviate the pain but don't cure. I am considering acupuncture. Sorry bud, but I have no answer as sciatica is a very personal experience and dependent on time, meaning the sooner you get it treated and hopefully fixed the better chance of you making a good recovery.


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## sciatic (May 24, 2014)

Will call in on this thread tomorrow as I'm off to my bed... :sleeping:


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

sciatic said:


> It's a complicated scenario mate. F*cking horrible to experience too. Everyone responds to this unfortunate occurrence differently depending on the severity. Painkillers are just that...They help alleviate the pain but don't cure. I am considering acupuncture. Sorry bud, but I have no answer as sciatica is a very personal experience and dependent on time, meaning the sooner you get it treated and hopefully fixed the better chance of you making a good recovery.


So the treatment is pain relief?...that's fine but I train 7 days a week in BJJ along with weight lifting and no amount of pain relief will let me do these things with this electric shock collar I have around my lower back

Does it just fix itself over time?


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## AlexB18 (Dec 10, 2013)

Sounds like sciatica as i get exactly the same symptoms, my GP has never referred me for physio or owt like that but mine only flares up once every 3-4 years thankfully.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

AlexB18 said:


> Sounds like sciatica as i get exactly the same symptoms, my GP has never referred me for physio or owt like that but mine only flares up once every 3-4 years thankfully.


so its recocuring? I definitely had whatever I have now 5 years ago and it went after about 6 months...I can't wait that long along grrrrrrrrrr


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## AlexB18 (Dec 10, 2013)

JuggernautJake said:


> so its recocuring? I definitely had whatever I have now 5 years ago and it went after about 6 months...I can't wait that long along grrrrrrrrrr


Yeah mine is but that's not to say yours is though i'm not a physio so i wouldn't know, mine normally buggers off after about 4 weeks for me personally training helps relieve it actually because if i don't train iv'e found that the muscles around it seize up and make it worse.


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## amy_robin (Jun 2, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> So the treatment is pain relief?...that's fine but I train 7 days a week in BJJ along with weight lifting and no amount of pain relief will let me do these things with this electric shock collar I have around my lower back
> 
> Does it just fix itself over time?


I dont know about everyone else but I dont agree in training on heavy painkillers anyway....I believe it may lead to further injuries....try those stretches that huntingground suggested ive seen physio sessions for similar....you deffo need the docs for a diagnosis...referral for physio and relevant scans but also some antinflamatory which should help and then maybe like I said the nerve relaxants


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

amy_robin said:


> I dont know about everyone else but I dont agree in training on heavy painkillers anyway....I believe it may lead to further injuries....try those stretches that huntingground suggested ive seen physio sessions for similar....you deffo need the docs for a diagnosis...referral for physio and relevant scans but also some antinflamatory which should help and then maybe like I said the nerve relaxants


yeah I agree, I stopped using deepheat for squatting because I found out it had a mild painkiller in it...if your forms off and its causing stress how would you know if the pain is being dulled? definitely not a good idea

I tried some of those stretches and it defo feels something is "trapped" I dunno if its in my head but I can put my finger on the point where the pain is but it feels deep under muscle

f.uck it im gonna book in at the docs, I have a feeling he will say rest, lazy bas.tard.


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## amy_robin (Jun 2, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> yeah I agree, I stopped using deepheat for squatting because I found out it had a mild painkiller in it...if your forms off and its causing stress how would you know if the pain is being dulled? definitely not a good idea
> 
> I tried some of those stretches and it defo feels something is "trapped" I dunno if its in my head but I can put my finger on the point where the pain is but it feels deep under muscle
> 
> f.uck it im gonna book in at the docs, I have a feeling he will say rest, lazy bas.tard.


Ive seen physios say its from muscle tightness....seen em say that its a crushed lumbar and also damage from pinning its one of those things thats gunna get very frustrating for you hope it gets better soon x


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## sciatic (May 24, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> So the treatment is pain relief?...that's fine but I train 7 days a week in BJJ along with weight lifting and no amount of pain relief will let me do these things with this electric shock collar I have around my lower back
> 
> Does it just fix itself over time?


Ok as promised calling in on this thread. Treatment can be a way to pain relief if the given treatment works. But trying to treat a nerve is not easy for any specialist and I've seen enough over the years, and if, or I should say when it comes back (and it will) I'm going to opt for acupuncture this time. It's the only way I see forward in trying to combat this freaking nuisance of a nerve. Other option would be to have an operation, but the risks and complications are an other issue. The longer you suffer from sciatica the less chance an operation will be successful. That statement came from my doctor. When my sciatica starts it does bring me to tears in the end as I cannot control the crazy pain. That's how severe it is! If anyone ever experiences a bad case sciatica they'll know what I mean.......It's scary and nasty! I now train smarter and I know what can irritate it, so I avoid. That took me years to analyse. Getting older comes wisdom lol. Sorry mate if my input is of very little use to you, but all I can give is my personal experience, and I can certainly empathise with you. Hope you can get it cured bud?!


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

Sounds like either SIJ, herniation or piriformis. Probably one or both of the first two.

These kind of issues usually return, because the root of the damage is in usually MOVEMENT dysfunction and not a random herniation due to acute injury.

Visit a chiro that specializes in movement (kinesiology) and sports injuries and have him look at your glute activation and ability to hip hinge vs hinging at low back(latter is a dysfunction)

GL mate


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

ive had acupuncture and it worked for a few hours (pain relief) -tho i have L4/5 and S1 compression so my options are just pain relief until it gets bad enough for me to want surgery which can bring even more problems.

.... as for chiropractors - ive asked multiple GP's and consultants - most just laughed and said 'why do you think its not available on the NHS' - its a complimentary therapy with no evidence base and the exercises a physio will give you are more effective.


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## NO-IDEA (Jun 28, 2012)

piriformis stretches. NHS will not do much, active rest and lots of stretching is what you need. once its better, which it will you need to make sure it stays away by regular stretching and foam rolling. Mobility is the key to avoiding injuries. If you don't address this it will keep coming back.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

aqualung said:


> ive had acupuncture and it worked for a few hours (pain relief) -tho i have L4/5 and S1 compression so my options are just pain relief until it gets bad enough for me to want surgery which can bring even more problems.
> 
> .... as for chiropractors - ive asked multiple GP's and consultants - most just laughed and said 'why do you think its not available on the NHS' - its a complimentary therapy with no evidence base and the exercises a physio will give you are more effective.


Lol they said that, yet the can't help you. The irony. IMO common sense should always be fundation of any treatment, not arrogant bull**** with no alternative other than painkillers.

WHY the compression/herniation? Common issues are a dysfunctional diaphragm and Tr A, unable to decompress the spine naturally when breathing.

Second us poor hip control, resulting in the spine hinging to compensate for lack of hip mobility. Now, this WILL cause back problems like herniations and arthritis.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

ive had painkillers ,acupuncture , physio and nerve root sleeve injections -there are many conditions that cant be treated or cured.

i dont see how multiple professionals telling me a 'treatment' is bull**** is being arrogant , personally i appreciate an honest answer rather than spend money on it.

the evidence for chiropractic techniques is no better than the exercises the physio's give people - and its free.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

Please explain what techniques you're talking about and what you think a chiro does


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

Kjetil1234 said:


> Please explain what techniques you're talking about and what you think a chiro does


sure , afaik there are different chiro methods but i'll give you some direct links to the NHS website , personally i read the bit 'does it work' - which is the most important part for me .

it states that its no better than any other treatments already available , and the main one for me being 'not to be used for spinal compression' in the second link under special precautions.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/chiropractic/Pages/Evidence.aspx

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/chiropractic/Pages/Safetyandregulation.aspx


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

So you don't know anything other than what your doc told you, basically.

I guess you, and your doctor are talking about joint manipulations. It's true that some chiros rely too much on these. It's important to align the joint, true, but some forget the importance of muscular imbalances and movement dysfunction which are without a doubt the most important IMO.

That it's not evidencebased is typical medicinal propaganda, as they even have bull**** studies saying "posture doesn't matter" and are actually working with this as evidence! Result: physicians telling their clients that low back pain is something they'll have to live with. GL to patients on painkillers rest of life.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

of course its what both my GP and consultant have told me :confused1: - i rely on them for my healthcare and thats what they are trained for.

the only thing i can suggest is you write or email the NHS and the GMC and tell them the error of their ways if you disagree with what they say, i would of course include your qualifications and experience if you want to be taken seriously.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

I find it strange that you keep hugging your GP when your back is still ****ed. But hey, none of my business. Have a good one buddy


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## dinobaggio (Mar 5, 2014)

Aqualung, sounds like you've tried nearly everything, some chiro treatment can help but it'll probably only give you temp relief.

Kjetil1234 Movement patterns are interesting areas of treatment but there is absolutely no evidence suggesting one movement pattern over another is better. We don't really even know what muscles should be firing in what order. I've seen this work in some people, and not in others- unfortunately people are all different and we have different pain drivers.

Aqualung I personally have had extremely poor experiences (professionally) with chiros- patients who have paid thousands for a guaranteed fix and come out as they went in 10 weeks later. I've also seen some treatments that are totally contraindicated- manipulations to old dears with osteoporosis so I understand your take on this!!

Kjetil1224 With regard trans abs and diaphragm - it's a theory that again will work for some but not for others - pains a strange thing and to concentrate solely on hip hinging, diaphragm bracing and poor ta as a cause of all back pain is asking for trouble as you're using this as a panacea- it just ain't.


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## Kjetil1234 (Jun 10, 2014)

We'll have to agree to disagree, Dino (I didn't say all, btw but most, and I stand by that). Evidence or not, I've had solemnly good results with applied kinesiology and optimizing breathing patterns on all my clients with back pain that "can't be explained".

Proper breathing will cause an intraabdominal pressure which gives the spine a "break". Just as chest breathing will not do it, but also it will overwork the pec minor, SCM and scalenenes(EVERY time

You breathe), and is a big contributor of thoracic outlet syndrome.

This is simple logic and I'm sure you agree.

Regarding movement and muscleimbalances, I work with and see the issues of this every day. I also correct it with great results. Anecdotally yes, but results is all that matters, and I do not care if a study claims

"Postural assessments don't work", when they in the same study admit that they are not able to define a good posture. Incompetence leading our industry. Sad!


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