# The sort of people that are going to vote for UKIP



## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Long story short, I ended up reading a post on UKIP's Facebook page, and saw a comment post made by a certain individual that absolutely enraged me.































No wonder he's struggling to find a job... Anyhow, although his post really enraged me, I found it quite amusing in the end, simply because he is contradicting himself; he said that this country needs to stop giving people handouts, when he is almost certainly on them handouts himself.

I was not born in the UK and thus I could be considered an immigrant, however just because of that simple fact, that doesn't necessarily mean that I have an agenda against any political party that wants to push immigrants out. I would very much welcome rules that limit the number of immigrants entering the country, as well as rules that limit immigrants' entitlement to public services such as free health care and benefits. However, one thing that I cannot really understand is that generalisation that all immigrants are here to milk the system, and that they are the reason this country is going downhill...

One last line: this country is as much mine as it is yours, I cannot express how upsetting it is to be labelled as a scum bag at a place that is my HOME, especially by someone that has had the privilege of being born and raised in the UK and has done absolutely nothing with that opportunity.

Any thoughts?

Peace.


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## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

You're racist for assuming he meant immigrants when talking about handouts. Racist


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

I agree this country should stop feeding other counties scroungers, wafes and strays. I can honestly see why people are angry especially the working people, having their hard earned money pumped into services, that British people struggle to get but are abused by people who shouldn't be entitled to it. Im all for people wanting to comehere to start a better life for themselves etc but when people come here and EXPECT stuff that gets my goat. Same with British people if you aint paid in don't expect the best out. People who moan the benefit is pittance, ffs if you don't like it get a job. There's plenty of jobs but people are to picky, they feel jobs are beneath them. Imo your on the dole you cant get any lower so to take a low paid job fair play to people who do it. X

Im considering voting ukip but im nothing like that tool in the pic.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

It rained today

There of our young English labourers the rained off

Give me three starving romainians anyday

Atleast they'll go all day


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

bail said:


> It rained today
> 
> There of our young English labourers the rained off
> 
> ...


They'll work for pennies too and undercut everyone's wages, just like the foreign machine drivers who work for 6.50 an hour when the English lads are used to £12+. If there were foreign scaffolders working for half of what you make and taking all the work you'd be singing a different tune.


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

bail said:


> It rained today
> 
> There of our young English labourers the rained off
> 
> ...


What does that even mean???


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

UKIP ftw


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Most UKIP voters only vote UKIP for their immigration stance, they will have no clue about any or the parties other policies.

But this is what UKIP want.


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## RugbyLad (Feb 15, 2014)

Don't understand why people constantly bash UKIP for being "anti immigration" it's so naive... if you want to bash UKIP fair enough but at least be logical and make a fair point. UKIP just want to put a immigration policy in place that benefits the UK, like America/Australia not out right stop immigration, Farage is married to a German... Come here to work and pay tax, that's fine...

This thread is just pointless "the type of people" what a sweeping generalisation...


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

EpicSquats said:


> They'll work for pennies too and undercut everyone's wages, just like the foreign machine drivers who work for 6.50 an hour when the English lads are used to £12+. If there were foreign scaffolders working for half of what you make and taking all the work you'd be singing a different tune.


But that's just business.

We got beaten on a deal today, it was an even playing field price wise from the vendor to all of the resellers involved, the reseller that won the deal sold to the client for £80k.

The resellers buy price was £79.2k, so he was happy to make £800 where he could have made several thousand.

It's not just trades people that have competition, every business does.


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

It has to be a balance everywhere! Someone has to work in chicken factories, fruit and veg farms and so on!

Whoever has higher iq, can hunt for a better life! I agree that it is harder to find a job these days, but its a competition, to put

More effort and work! Imo


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

RugbyLad said:


> Don't understand why people constantly bash UKIP for being "anti immigration" it's so naive... if you want to bash UKIP fair enough but at least be logical and make a fair point. UKIP just want to put a immigration policy in place that benefits the UK, like America/Australia not out right stop immigration, Farage is married to a German... Come here to work and pay tax, that's fine...
> 
> This thread is just pointless "the type of people" what a sweeping generalisation...


I had no idea that Farage is married to a German, but it is completely irrelevant anyway. Adolf Hilter was once nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize..........


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## maxie (Jan 31, 2011)

A lad was telling me his boy is doing an electrical refurb job on a hotel,the owners sacked the builders off the job and took a load of poles on instead,their working for below minimum wage,and living in the hotel rent free,how the hell does any trades compete with that!

I should be a labour voter being working class,but they were frigin scum and started all this mass immigration and near ruined the country,i cant forgive them for that,i cant vote tory as it would be wrong,lib dem no chance,it might have to be ukip.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Smitch said:


> *But that's just business.*
> 
> We got beaten on a deal today, it was an even playing field price wise from the vendor to all of the resellers involved, the reseller that won the deal sold to the client for £80k.
> 
> ...


Exactly, it's business which is bad for working people who are replaced by foreign labour who work for less, we shouldn't allow them to come and live here. We should put ourselves first so our standard of living doesn't get worse. We don't need loads of immigrants here.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

EpicSquats said:


> Exactly, it's business which is bad for working people who are replaced by foreign labour who work for less, we shouldn't allow them to come and live here. We should put ourselves first so our standard of living doesn't get worse. We don't need loads of immigrants here.


Trades people have been ripping off the UK public for years, it's about time they had a wake up call.

And people seem to forget that immigrants do all the sh1tty jobs that none of the UK's fine residents will do and see as being beneath them. I've worked in many big offices in London and i have never come across a cleaner in any of those buildings that was English, we're our own worst enemies.

I know plenty of immigrants, most of who pay more in Uk tax each year than the average Brit earns in a year. The bottom line is that we need immigrants, we just need to make sure that when they are here they are paying into the system and not just taking out of it,


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> They'll work for pennies too and undercut everyone's wages, just like the foreign machine drivers who work for 6.50 an hour when the English lads are used to £12+. If there were foreign scaffolders working for half of what you make and taking all the work you'd be singing a different tune.


I'm only playing to be honest mate

Couple of the boys are blinding I was just have a joking almost ironically generallising, their are forieghn guys in our game but most are good and most of the expect good wages too,Tbh it was the recission that fvcked our game more than anything.

But things are good again now so I'm happy.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

freddee said:


> What does that even mean???


I was having a joke see other comment.

However is wasn't massively complicated almost simple.


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## Freeby0 (Oct 5, 2012)

No problem with people coming here working and paying tax .. but I believe if you are foreign then you shouldn't receive any benefits whatsoever and I also believe than punishment for crime should also be slightly harsher and if foreigners don't like it then they can chip.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Carbon-12 said:


> Long story short, I ended up reading a post on UKIP's Facebook page, and saw a comment post made by a certain individual that absolutely enraged me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think they Intend to ship people out who were born and bred here that work have money contribute to society and have settled. So u being considered immigrant and if u have all of the above would be a positive as u are setting the example are u not?

I'm not sure it's a generalization.


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Conservative FTW...the rest are weak or crackpots!


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

EpicSquats said:


> Exactly, it's business which is bad for working people who are replaced by foreign labour who work for less, we shouldn't allow them to come and live here. We should put ourselves first so our standard of living doesn't get worse. We don't need loads of immigrants here.


That is a very hypocritical and naive thing to say... I am more than sure that most of the stuff you owe has being manufactured in China and various other countries that have cheap labour. If we were to apply your ideology, by buying items that have been manufactured in foreign countries and are as a result much cheaper, you are essentially damaging the British people's trade because you aren't buying their products.

The matter of the fact is that there will always be someone that will provide a cheaper service, often compromising on quality, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Not to mention that the majority of jobs that immigrants do are unskilled, and highly unappealing to the English people (some prefer to be on benefits than wake up early in the morning and work hard jobs for minimal wage). Might sound a bit harsh, but if you are competing with immigrants for underpaid and unskilled jobs then you really need to up your game rather than blaming it all on them.

One thing we all need to remind ourselves of is that the United States of America were built by immigrants, and they seem to be doing just fine.


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## RugbyLad (Feb 15, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> I had no idea that Farage is married to a German, but it is completely irrelevant anyway. Adolf Hilter was once nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize..........


I don't really see what Hitler's Nobel Peace Prize nomination has to do with anything?

Edit: Just to add as I don't wanna post again. You say the problem is also the indigenous brits who don't wanna wake up early and go to work. I completely agree, which was is another reason I agree with UKIPS policies as they are the only party I see a addressing this issue. They support a lower benefit cap, benefit should be a crutch between jobs not a lifestyle. They also want to clamp down on benefit fraud to many people that can work and simply choose not to.

Government needs to toughen up, Cameron has been way to soft.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> They'll work for pennies too and undercut everyone's wages, just like the foreign machine drivers who work for 6.50 an hour when the English lads are used to £12+. If there were foreign scaffolders working for half of what you make and taking all the work you'd be singing a different tune.


If they are willing to come over and do the same job for less money and do a good job then why should they not be allowed to do so?


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> If they are willing to come over and do the same job for less money and do a good job then why should they not be allowed to do so?


Dont think its the "working" immigrants people have a problem with its the ones coming here and getting all the benefits the same as someone who has worked for 45 years of their lives and contributed to every service offered by the country.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> One thing we all need to remind ourselves of is that the United States of America were built by immigrants, and they seem to be doing just fine.


One in five on food stamps , living below the poverty line .. losing every foreign war its fought in since ww2 , Putin running rings around obama , Riots cos the cops cant keep a lid on things without shooting people.. Yup Merikaah is doing fine we should all be like them. ( Just sayin )

Dont see ought wrong with me being able to go to the UK and get a job .. but when i can go to the UK to get myself on benefits and healthcare and maybe a job on the side on the cheap then maybe somethings not right.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Pinky said:


> Dont think its the "working" immigrants people have a problem with its the ones coming here and getting all the benefits the same as someone who has worked for 45 years of their lives and contributed to every service offered by the country.


I was referring to what epicsquats said about them willing to work for minimum wage when the english expect £12 an hour. I don't agree with someone coming over with no intention of working but I don't see why wages should be kept artificially high for the english.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> I was referring to what epicsquats said about them willing to work for minimum wage when the english expect £12 an hour. I don't agree with someone coming over with no intention of working but* I don't see why wages should be kept artificially high for the english.*


You would rather they were artificially lowered by the Eurocrats ?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

nitricdave said:


> You would rather they were artificially lowered by the Eurocrats ?


How is it artificially lowered?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

monkeybiker said:


> I was referring to what epicsquats said about them willing to work for minimum wage when the english expect £12 an hour. I don't agree with someone coming over with no intention of working but I don't see why wages should be kept artificially high for the english.


Even if they have spent **** loads to qualify on courses, degrees etc ?


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> I was referring to what epicsquats said about them willing to work for minimum wage when the english expect £12 an hour. I don't agree with someone coming over with no intention of working but *I don't see why wages should be kept artificially high for the english.*


So you don't understand why English people would want £12 an hour when they could be on 6.50 an hour. Yeah, it's a mystery to me too. 

We don't owe anyone from anywhere else a living or a place to live. There's no reason whatsoever why we have to allow immigrants to come and live here if we don't want to. I'm not saying we should have no immigrants, but anyone and everyone coming to live here will be bad for the country.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> How is it artificially lowered?


Britain cant control its borders , the supply of workers goes up , wages go down. Government spending is spread between more and more people ( health / benefits ) cos were all in the EU happy family you have to give it to the immigrants too .. The UK has no independance , no right to not give away its services ..cos the EU says so .. So the british end up suffering lower care . An increasing population drive house prices so your regular joe earns less money , ends up with less social services and pays more for his house . Britian lowers its standard of living in order to raise that of Poland* , not rocket science and not unpredictable.

*And the kicker ? That 6.50 an hour is sent back to Poland. Remittances: how much money do migrants send home? â?? interactive | Global development | theguardian.com


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

EpicSquats said:


> So you don't understand why English people would want £12 an hour when they could be on 6.50 an hour. Yeah, it's a mystery to me too.
> 
> We don't owe anyone from anywhere else a living or a place to live. There's no reason whatsoever why we have to allow immigrants to come and live here if we don't want to. I'm not saying we should have no immigrants, but anyone and everyone coming to live here will be bad for the country.


That's not what I said.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

monkeybiker said:


> That's not what I said.


But that's what would happen if you allowed immigrants into the country who would do your job for 6.50 an hour. An employers not going to pay someone £12 an hour if they can pay another person 6.50. There are lots of cases of it happening already.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

nitricdave said:


> One in five on food stamps , living below the poverty line .. losing every foreign war its fought in since ww2 , Putin running rings around obama , Riots cos the cops cant keep a lid on things without shooting people.. Yup Merikaah is doing fine we should all be like them. ( Just sayin )
> 
> Dont see ought wrong with me being able to go to the UK and get a job .. but when i can go to the UK to get myself on benefits and healthcare and maybe a job on the side on the cheap then maybe somethings not right.


The majority of those 20 percent being people of Afro-american and Latino descent, who are often illiterate and thus unfit for work as they have no skills. So ya, those statistics are completely irrelevant. They don't call America the land of opportunity for no reason mate...

Don't really have anything to say regarding the other part of your post simply because it's insignificant.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> The majority of those 20 percent *being people of Afro-american and Latino descent, who are often illiterate and thus unfit for work* as they have no skills. So ya, those statistics are completely irrelevant. They don't call America the land of opportunity for no reason mate...
> 
> Don't really have anything to say regarding the other part of your post simply because it's insignificant.


Wrong. Just wrong .

There Has Never Been A Greater Portion Of America Living On Food Stamps | Zero Hedge

Households On Foodstamps Rise To New Record High: More Americans Live In Poverty Than The Population Of Spain | Zero Hedge

The new face of food stamps: working-age Americans - Yahoo News


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

nitricdave said:


> Wrong. Just wrong .
> 
> There Has Never Been A Greater Portion Of America Living On Food Stamps | Zero Hedge
> 
> ...


Show me statistics that state the percentage of Americans who have successfully graduated high school and college living on food stamps and below the poverty line!


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> So you don't understand why English people would want £12 an hour when they could be on 6.50 an hour. Yeah, it's a mystery to me too.
> 
> We don't owe anyone from anywhere else a living or a place to live. There's no reason whatsoever why we have to allow immigrants to come and live here if we don't want to. I'm not saying we should have no immigrants, but anyone and everyone coming to live here will be bad for the country.


A rich Saudi immigrant will be paying more into the UK tax system than you ever will in your life time lol. But ooh every immigrant coming here is bad


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

zyphy said:


> A rich Saudi immigrant will be paying more into the UK tax system than you ever will in your life time lol. But ooh every immigrant coming here is bad


That rich Saudi immigrant has also been vetted and approved for a UK visa because hes not from the EU.. in that respect the UK is indepenant.. very different.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

nitricdave said:


> That rich Saudi immigrant has also been vetted and approved for a UK visa because hes not from the EU.. in that respect the UK is indepenant.. very different.


So, the Saudi thing was a placeholder. Swap it for any nationality and the statement still holds.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

zyphy said:


> A rich Saudi immigrant will be paying more into the UK tax system than you ever will in your life time lol. *But ooh every immigrant coming here is bad*


Do you have a reading problem? You just quoted me saying "I'm not saying we should have no immigrants".


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> Do you have a reading problem? You just quoted me saying "I'm not saying we should have no immigrants".


Yet you said ANYONE AND EVERYONE, perhaps you're illiterate?


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> Show me statistics that state the percentage of Americans who have successfully graduated high school and college living on food stamps and below the poverty line!


Mate the links i posted for you are a good starting point if you want to scratch beneath the surface, the last one for example

" Food stamp participation since 1980 has grown the fastest among workers with some college training, a sign that the safety net has stretched further to cover America's former middle class, according to an analysis of government data for The Associated Press by economists at the University of Kentucky. Formally called Supplemental Nutrition Assistance, or SNAP, the program now covers 1 in 7 Americans. "

Former middle class ..


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

zyphy said:


> Yet you said ANYONE AND EVERYONE, perhaps you're illiterate?


There's a difference between some immigrants, no immigrants and anyone and everyone. OK?


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> There's a difference between some immigrants, no immigrants and anyone and everyone. OK?


What you wrote was contradictory and I called you out on it. Now pipe down son


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

zyphy said:


> So, the Saudi thing was a placeholder. Swap it for any nationality and the statement still holds.


ok .. its still apples and oranges. I think the issue is that a not independant britain has no say in who comes in now.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

nitricdave said:


> ok .. its still apples and oranges. I think the issue is that a not independant britain has no say in who comes in now.


Not exactly anything new though is it. Britain gave up it's sovereignty a long time ago when it joined the EU


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

zyphy said:


> What you wrote was contradictory and I called you out on it. Now pipe down son


No, you can't understand simple English...son.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

zyphy said:


> Not exactly anything new though is it. Britain gave up it's sovereignty a long time ago when it joined the EU


True but the full impact is only being felt now . Cameron wouldnt even be trying to wriggle out of the in / out referendum if it werent for Farrage who has been warning people from day one.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> No, you can't understand simple English...son.


. I'm not saying we should have no immigrants, but anyone and everyone coming to live here will be bad for the country.

I already provided a counter example to this statement, therefore we can conclude a contradiction.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

nitricdave said:


> True but the full impact is only being felt now . Cameron wouldnt even be trying to wriggle out of the in / out referendum if it werent for Farrage who has been warning people from day one.


Would you be for or against leaving the EU?


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

nitricdave said:


> Mate the links i posted for you are a good starting point if you want to scratch beneath the surface, the last one for example
> 
> " Food stamp participation since 1980 has grown the fastest among workers with some college training, a sign that the safety net has stretched further to cover America's former middle class, according to an analysis of government data for The Associated Press by economists at the University of Kentucky. Formally called Supplemental Nutrition Assistance, or SNAP, the program now covers 1 in 7 Americans. "
> 
> Former middle class ..


"By education, about 28 percent of food stamp households are headed by a person with at least some college training..."

*That does not necessarily mean that because they had "some college training", they successfully graduated and obtained at least a Bachelor's degree. If we carry on reading, *"Among those with four-year college degrees, the share rose from 3 percent to 7 percent. "*, we can see that out of those 20 percent of population (63 million people) that are on food stamps, only 7 percent have a Bachelor's degree or higher, which works out at 4.4 million people. That figure of 4.4 million people is not very significant, considering the fact that over 110 million Americans have earned at least a Bachelor's degree (another words, only 5 percent out of those people with Bachelor's degrees or above live on food stamps).*

Moral of analysing the statistics: only 5 percent of Americans who graduated college end up living on food stamps. I wouldn't really go behind the reasons of why those 5 percent can't find a well paid job as I don't want to offend anyone, I'm pretty sure that the majority of us could think of a few reasons...


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

zyphy said:


> Would you be for or against leaving the EU?


I think the EU is a disaster every country in it except perhaps germany would be better off without it.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

zyphy said:


> . I'm not saying we should have no immigrants, but anyone and everyone coming to live here will be bad for the country.
> 
> I already provided a counter example to this statement, therefore we can conclude a contradiction.


What you think I meant, isn't what I meant. I will just leave it at that.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> "By education, about 28 percent of food stamp households are headed by a person with at least some college training..."
> 
> *That does not necessarily mean that because they had "some college training", they successfully graduated and obtained at least a Bachelor's degree. If we carry on reading, *"Among those with four-year college degrees, the share rose from 3 percent to 7 percent. "*, we can see that out of those 20 percent of population (63 million people) that are on food stamps, only 7 percent have a Bachelor's degree or higher, which works out at 4.4 million people. That figure of 4.4 million people is not very significant, considering the fact that over 110 million Americans have earned at least a Bachelor's degree.*


Your getting stuck in the details.. For whatever reason 1 in 7 people in the US of A are on foodstamps and that figure is rising. The middle class is being hollowed out by lowering wages and increasing costs . Take a look at the affordability of education in the US before deciding if the root problem can be so easily dismissed with a sweeping statement such as you made which was that those people are black , hispanic and / or illiterate.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

nitricdave said:


> Your getting stuck in the details.. For whatever reason 1 in 7 people in the US of A are on foodstamps and that figure is rising. The middle class is being hollowed out by lowering wages and increasing costs . Take a look at the affordability of education in the US before deciding if the root problem can be so easily dismissed with a sweeping statement such as you made which was that those people are black , hispanic and / or illiterate.


Good night, sir. You need to learn to pay attention to detail, rather than vague statements.

Edit: since you are trying to play the race card, as normally people who loose an argument do, let's change that Afro American and Latin people to just illiterate people.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Carbon-12 said:


> Good night, sir. You need to learn to pay attention to detail, rather than vague statements.


Vague statements such as people on food stamps are black and stupid like you just made . :thumb:


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

nitricdave said:


> Vague statements such as people on food stamps are black and stupid like you just made . :thumb:


Ah the old internet classic - once you lose an argument, the best thing you could do is to start changing people's words. Anyway, as I said, good night. I have to wake up early to make sure I don't end up like that 20 percent of Americans.


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

Smitch said:


> But that's just business.
> 
> We got beaten on a deal today, it was an even playing field price wise from the vendor to all of the resellers involved, the reseller that won the deal sold to the client for £80k.
> 
> ...


£800 profit out of 80 grand? What a fcuking pr**k. People like that destroy markets.


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## Lean&amp;Mean&amp;Clean (May 9, 2008)

even without looking I can tell you that these are the potless morons


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

I'm sick of hearing the "immigrants do the jobs we won't" crap. Its absolute ballz.

I mean who do you think used to do these jobs before? Was it a magical fairy perhaps, or maybe an Elf from Santa's grotto... FFS!

Fact is immigrants can do low skilled manual labour jobs for less than, or at minimum wage because they live 5-10 in cheap shared houses where they split the rent and the bills. English people can't do this because we don't live like sardines, we have families and we are not expected to be SLAVES in our own country.

Any business owner who knowingly hires foreign workers over British workers and pays less than national minimum wage, should be jailed.

All British jobs should go to British born workers first and foremost.

Immigration should be selective, if there's a job available and no one here to fill it then bring someone in from outside UK and only in those circumstances.

All this talk of anti-immigration being racist boils my blood, we are grossly overpopulated and our services cannot cope that's why people are voting for UKIP in their droves because they are the only ones offering a real solution and they better keep their promise or this country will erupt in violence.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> What you think I meant, isn't what I meant. I will just leave it at that.


nope, only interpreted what you wrote.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

nitricdave said:


> I think the EU is a disaster every country in it except perhaps germany would be better off without it.


reasons?


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

GCMAX said:


> I'm sick of hearing the "immigrants do the jobs we won't" crap. Its absolute ballz.
> 
> I mean who do you think used to do these jobs before? Was it a magical fairy perhaps, or maybe an Elf from Santa's grotto... FFS!
> 
> ...


in droves LOL have you even seen the polls yet mate? be prepared to have tears on your keyboard. currently farage looks set to quit the party as leader lmfao


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

EpicSquats said:


> But that's what would happen if you allowed immigrants into the country who would do your job for 6.50 an hour. An employers not going to pay someone £12 an hour if they can pay another person 6.50. There are lots of cases of it happening already.


If you could buy a car for 10 grand

Or near enough the exact same car in same condition et. For 2 grand which would you choose?!

Companies get cheaper workers be it foreign or the none entitled english

They then provide their products/services cheaper

You then get them cheaper

You celebrate an think there great for giving you cheaper stuff

Swagga


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

The debate over UKIP is always misconstrued. I will proudly vote for UKIP for many reason, but primarily that they are the only party i see that are willing to discuss the real issues in life that people talk about every day behind closed doors.

Debates on immigration always center around the economic argument, however what about the social aspect of this? Anti immigration for some reason is always seen as a negative, closed minded, bigoted view. This is wrong. UK represents 1% of the worlds population, we cannot have this Florence Nightingale approach to the modern world. This is Ed Milliband softly softly approach, its weak and naive.

Throughout history people from a poorer background tended to migrant to that of a more affluent background. This is human nature. UK is a very rich country. Yes! We should shut the doors temporarily, or at least have full control to those who are simply economic migrants. We cannot support open door policy for whoever wants to come here. I do sympathies, and understand why and they want to come. However there is such thing as good and bad immigration. Skilled migration is good, unskilled is not especially useful. The idea that we need this influx of unskilled migration otherwise the UK degrades economically is nonsense. Before the 1970's was a strawberry never picked, a mine never dug, an office never cleaned?. In a country like the UK where the social and health welfare budget is huge compared to other countries, a large influx of people can be a net drain.

Now lets assume that the lib dems, greens , labour are right and there is net improvement in the economy due to an influx of migrants. Does this mean we should allow it? I argue no, not at all. What about the social and cultural changes. The Greens, Libdems annoy me. These two parties do not have the back bone to even discuss this question. They hide their face in shame, squirm at the though of answering it. They assume multicultural is synonymous with good, and not debatable. What is wrong with saying "I prefer one culture over another". This is not racism, Racism is a hatred of a race. What I am referring to is a preference. We all do in every day through our whole lives. Who we married, who we choose to have as friends, what job we take etc. Language barriers and very different cultures provide obstacles and erode social cohesion. If you have little in common with your neighbor you ignore them, that is a long way from hating them as the anti UKIP supporters would have you believe.

It greatly irritates me that a countries within the UK have >1000 years history going back to Alfred the Great, Norman Conquest and battle of Hastings, the tudors,the reformation under Henry the 8th unification of Scotland ion 1601, English Civil war, the act of union in 1707 forming the UK, the Great British Empire, of which was the most formidable in the world for a century, the Napoleonic wars, the battle of Trafalgar, Churchill and the 2 world wars when Britain almost stood alone for a time when countries like France pulled up their skirts and ran, ..... yet demonstrated great guile, perseverance and bravery

... all of this strife and toil to preserve the identity and integrity of the country.

... yet in the space of 30 years, the face of the UK to be radically changed by those soppy baby kissing twits in west minister. The British army has been decimated, the Union Jack which could be proudly hung from any house has been somehow morphed been into a symbol of xenophobic, BNP supporter, racists, bigot symbol. Churchill would hang his head in shame if he were alive today.

Sickens me greatly! 

(The last time I walked by the Houses of Parliament in London (which was built in the 11th century!) there were a bunch of "British" f#ckers protesting and wanting Sharia law brought into Britain, all the meanwhile being protected by the police. Which party do you think would stop that protest? UKIP or Lim Dems)


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Everyone bashes ukip for the immigration bit like they are taking the send the fvckers home stance. They are not. They want tighter checks and only let in people who are of use to us and not all the prison dregs.

Even Cameron has got on the bandwagon from what he was saying on the radio yesterday.

That lad probably don't even no who ukip are he just wants to vote for then cuz he thinks he is a radical. Chav pr**k is what he is.


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

As a foreigner, I am a bit baffled how this UKIP gained so much popularity and in such a short period of time. I kinda liked BNP since Nick Griffin reminded me of Alan B'Stard, but this Farage guy is no fun. How did they get this popular?


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Racists


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Goranchero said:


> As a foreigner, I am a bit baffled how this UKIP gained so much popularity and in such a short period of time. I kinda liked BNP since Nick Griffin reminded me of Alan B'Stard, but this Farage guy is no fun. How did they get this popular?


they're not all that popular lol, it's all hype because they're representing a different view. the SNP will have far more seats than the UKIP can dream of


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Saw a video recently with some absolute knobhead thinking he was clever explaining that when immigrants come over they create jobs

It appeared that he truly believed if ten immigrants came over, they would create more than ten jobs

That's exactly why I don't get involved in this. 99% of the people (probably 99% on this thread to be brutally honest) don't have a fcuking clue what's going on, mainly because they're just buying in to the 'vote ME' bull**** or because they've formed dumbars*e* opinion like "This guy wants to get rid of immigrants who are stealing our jobs so lets vote for him"

Also because the parties trying to get voted in are humans, and humans are very good at telling you what you want to hear and keeping quiet or sugar coating the things you don't

Realistically it doesn't make a difference what you or me think because odds are nothing's going to change


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

zyphy said:


> reasons?


Lack of social union , north south divide

Common currency but lack of common financial policy ( this alone makes the whole thing farked from the outset )

Few ordinary people want to be in the United States of Europe.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Vote UKM Party:

Free Steroids for all members.

Minimum Wage:£25/ hour

5% Taxation


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Free United Kingdom Party


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## OptimumPT (Feb 7, 2012)

UKIP for me as apart from the immigration policy which everyone seems to go on about and incidentally that is what I am least concerned about living where I do, UKIP has some gems in it's manifesto, students studying a science based subject will have free tuition and no university fees (that would apply to my son) prisoners to serve their entire sentence (love it and about time someone had the balls to bring this in) no rise in VAT etc etc


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

bail said:


> I was having a joke see other comment.
> 
> However is wasn't massively complicated almost simple.


Ye so was I, I was referring to your spelling!


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

Smitch said:


> Most UKIP voters only vote UKIP for their immigration stance, they will have no clue about any or the parties other policies.
> 
> But this is what UKIP want.


kinda disagree on that a little.

i absolutely agree with getting rid of inheritance tax! You've already paid tax on your earnings, then when you die the government want another 50% before it gets passed onto loved ones, thats utter BS!

i agree people who server in the forces should be leap frogged for medical treatment.

i agree the UK should stop pi$$ing money off to countries for "AID", when often the money isnt even accounted for, they spend it on weapons or flash cars for corrupt politicians.

we give AID to India still, why? They actually have theyre own fecking Space Programme now?!! And are one of the fast growing economies, what the feck are we doing??

i wont be voting UKIP, be voting Tories as i *do not* want that [email protected] ED in!! Labour is boom and bust! Commies! Backed by something for nothing people! And if they SNP get theyre foot in the door....jesus!

the last thing this countries needs right now is change!!

oh, and another UKIP policy i really am for, those coming to this country to live should have 2 years of health insurance before being able to have free NHS services. Makes total sense and stops people coming over just for free health care! End of the day, you go on holiday, you buy health insurance yeah? Let them do the same, easy, simple, straight forward common sense.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Some of the arguments in this thread are absolutely ridiculous and make zero sense. Why should someone be entitled to a higher pay rate just because he is a British citizen, when he does exactly the same job as someone else who isn't a British citizen? The only thing you get entitled to in this world is a life; what you make out of it is completely up to you.

Edit: I've just read some intelligent posts that do indeed show positive things that UKIP would do to benefit hard working people, which I wasn't aware of prior to reading those posts so thank you. My only issue is that they seem to blame immigrants for all the issues that we are facing and that is not right (lets not become Nazi Germany and blame all of our issues on the Jewish people, in this case immigrants).


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

Winston Churchill said:


> 'The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.'


Every time, every place.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

zyphy said:


> they're not all that popular lol, it's all hype because they're representing a different view. the SNP will have far more seats than the UKIP can dream of


Or an honest view for once maybe.


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

UKIP do have some good policies but sadly they are overshadowed by the open racism (a number of their manifesto points look like they've been taken from the 1920 Nazi Party manifesto). If anyone has actually read the Conservative manifesto, their immigration policy will prevent migrants from claiming benefits until they have worked here for a number of years which will only encourage skilled workers. Don't get me started on benefit scroungers.................

Whilst I am patriotically British I have no intention endorsing UKIPs 4th Reich.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

latblaster said:


> Vote UKM Party:
> 
> Free Steroids for all members.
> 
> ...


Only if u omit that tax for women!!! and we get more steroid coz we are disadvantaged from the onset :lol:


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Carbon-12 said:


> Some of the arguments in this thread are absolutely ridiculous and make zero sense. Why should someone be entitled to a higher pay rate just because he is a British citizen, when he does exactly the same job as someone else who isn't a British citizen? The only thing you get entitled to in this world is a life; what you make out of it is completely up to you.
> 
> Edit: I've just read some intelligent posts that do indeed show positive things that UKIP would do to benefit hard working people, which I wasn't aware of prior to reading those posts so thank you. My only issue is that they seem to blame immigrants for all the issues that we are facing and that is not right (lets not become Nazi Germany and blame all of our issues on the Jewish people, in this case immigrants).


Well here lies the issue u don't like ukip but u havnt really fully understood their view on immigration ..u make it sound like we all hate immigrants ...that's not so the majority would just like to,see them do as we have to do....if they bring skills, have cash in the bank and speak good English why wouldn't we welcome them.


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## DaveCW (Dec 9, 2013)

Carbon-12 said:


> Some of the arguments in this thread are absolutely ridiculous and make zero sense. Why should someone be entitled to a higher pay rate just because he is a British citizen, when he does exactly the same job as someone else who isn't a British citizen? *The only thing you get entitled in this world is a life; what you make out of it is completely up to you*.
> 
> Edit: I've just read some intelligent posts that do indeed show positive things that UKIP would do to benefit hard working people, which I wasn't aware of prior to reading those posts so thank you. My only issue is that they seem to blame immigrants for all the issues that we are facing and that is not right (lets not become Nazi Germany and blame all of our issues on the Jewish people, in this case immigrants).


Not True..

If your born to a a family living in oh i don't know lets say Central Africa somewhere, where there are no opportunities for work and there are no schools or even clean water then you are born and entitled to a life but don't think for one second that you can be all you want to be.

A large majority from many countries just have no hope for a better future because of where they are geographically, and that is why they try to get out and head for greener pastures.

My family did the same only for us it was a case of safety rather than prospects, We immigrated to Australia from South Africa shortly after the place went down the toilet.

The criteria for business based immigration, especially to Australia is very hard to meet and requires you to start a business and employ a minimum of three full time Australian staff for a set number of hours at a set pay rate, after that your business needs to have a minimum of $200k a year turn over.

The UK just needs to make it very hard to get into and also make sure that they have statistics to regulate the jobs that are imported so that they only bring in skilled workers who can support the country.

They need to implement laws that makes undercutting illegal, so the pay standard is set and cannot be changed regardless of what a potential employee may offer to work for.


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

zyphy said:


> in droves LOL have you even seen the polls yet mate? be prepared to have tears on your keyboard. currently farage looks set to quit the party as leader lmfao


I know what you are trying to do.

By saying so and so party is unpopular, this will make people think they won't win in an election and so they will vote for someone else.

An overused tactic that does not fare well in the face of today's strong feelings.

UKIP is popular, just look at the results here on UKM, they lead by an easy 10 points over the Conservatives, Labour as expected are WAY behind;

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-conversation/292092-election-2015-a.html?highlight=uk+polls

Are you going to tell me that UKM is full of right wingers, or would you go even further and say something else?

There are other, more mainstream websites, like social media platforms and newspapers whose polls throughout the years always seem to show Labour and Conservatives neck and neck. The reason for this is not because different people have clicked (UKM is as varied a subsection of society as any other) it IS because the government have paid for and altered the outcome of these polls and if you don't believe me I can provide government documentation which proves this is being done on a massive scale.

Now, if we don't see a UKIP win, or at the least a joint government between UKIP and Conservative, this means vote rigging has taken place and it won't be the first time.


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

I dont think its the fact of poles etc work for less money its the fact that people in this country are to picky. Ive heard people in the dole office say "im not starting work at 6am, fk that" or im not cleaning toilets etc. People think jobs are beneath them, when indeed nothing is beneath them, imo your on the dole your cant get no lower.

If i had kids id take any job that allows me to put food in their mouths and a roof over their head.

Also any company paying less then min wage regarded oof nationality aint they breaking the law?

People think using immigrants to do jobs is cheaper it is if you dont get caught. Be it your British, Polish, Romanian they still must be paid min wage.

Also no matter who you vote for be it cons or UKip some cvnt will call you racist, bigot or what fking ever.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

welshman said:


> UKIP do have some good policies but sadly they are *overshadowed by the open racism* (a number of their manifesto points look like they've been taken from the 1920 Nazi Party manifesto).
> 
> Whilst I am patriotically British I have no intention endorsing UKIPs 4th Reich.


What exactly is racist about UKIP policy, people love to jump on this band wagon and take offence on behalf of others. I have yet to see anyone demonstrating what exactly is racist about the policy despite all the claims



welshman said:


> , *their immigration policy will prevent migrants from claiming benefits until they have worked here for a number of years which will only encourage skilled workers*. Don't get me started on benefit scroungers.................


This is one of the most sensible policies they can introduce! What exactly is wrong with this? Why have a policy that encourages people from overseas to come here and claim benefits, given the size of the country? If the counter-argument holds, issue a free for all visa policy and see what happens.

As shocking to some as this may sounds. A government should and does puts its own citizens first ahead of other nations. Thats why we elect them to represent our views not the views of non citizens


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

GCMAX said:


> £800 profit out of 80 grand? What a fcuking pr**k. People like that destroy markets.


Yep, you get them in every aspect of business though, it's infuriating!


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

JohhnyC said:


> What exactly is racist about UKIP policy, people love to jump on this band wagon and take offence on behalf of others. I have yet to see anyone demonstrating what exactly is racist about the policy despite all the claims
> 
> This is one of the most sensible policies they can introduce! What exactly is wrong with this? Why have a policy that encourages people from overseas to come here and claim benefits, given the size of the country? If the counter-argument holds, issue a free for all visa policy and see what happens.
> 
> As shocking to some as this may sounds. A government should and does puts its own citizens first ahead of other nations. Thats why we elect them to represent our views not the views of non citizens


I agree with all aspects of their immigration policy with the exception that British job applicants will be given preference over foreign applicants for jobs which is positive discrimination and racist. I was on the fence because I agree with quite a few of their policies but as soon as you scratch the service they are a shady bunch.

What sealed the deal for me was a few days ago when Bill Walker, the UKIP parliamentary candidate for Aldershot labelled the Ghurkas as parasites. For a party that supposedly holds the military in such high regards it just highlights how out of touch with reality they really are.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

GCMAX said:


> I know what you are trying to do.
> 
> By saying so and so party is unpopular, this will make people think they won't win in an election and so they will vote for someone else.
> 
> ...


Hahaha you live in cloud cuckoo land mate. In b4 farage doesn't get a seat and is forced to resign


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm all for UKIPs immigration policies...bring them on.........

BUT ONLY - (since they also want us out of the EU) if they apply them to teh rest of Europe too.

Where there are currently more English people on benefits abroad than there are immigrants on benefits here.

And obviously - if their benefits are denied over there...they may have to come back here. Which will leave us with more people on benefits.

But that's ok because they'll be British people right? So it's ok for them to be back over here on benefits and competing for jobs..instead of doing it in other countries like they are now.

The situation won't change; only the birthplace of the people involved. It won't solve anything.

Assuming other countries did the same of course; which they probably won't.

UKIP's policies are vacuous, facile, blinkered and moronic. The idea of having a prime minister...who in a televised debate ...in teh run up to an election..is prepared to insult an entire audience of british people; because they disagreed with his views - is beyond abhorrent. He basically said...if you agree with him you're great and if you don't he'll discount your opinion completely. That's not the kind of person who should be running a country.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

welshman said:


> I agree with all aspects of their immigration policy with the exception that British job applicants will be given preference over foreign applicants for jobs which is positive discrimination and racist. I was on the fence because I agree with quite a few of their policies but as soon as you scratch the service they are a shady bunch.
> 
> What sealed the deal for me was a few days ago when Bill Walker, the UKIP parliamentary candidate for Aldershot labelled the Ghurkas as parasites. For a party that supposedly holds the military in such high regards it just highlights how out of touch with reality they really are.


Theyre a one tick pony, only foolish people can be bought into voting for them lol. Whilst farage's presence makes for good debate, the party itself is bonkers


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

I will be voting for UKIP.

I'm not racist (I have a colour telly - boom-boom  ) but it's a numbers issue.

We should be taking in people who already have work lined up and have a little cash behind them to start off. And the numbers need to be controlled.

Wage suppression, school places, social housing, NHS waiting times all suffer due to the large number of migrants we have now.

It's just not right that people come here with nothing, claim jobseekers/disability, get NHS treatment/dental work, get a council house, tax credits, child benefit etc. To me, it's common sense. Pay something into the system before you take something out.

I know UKIP will not win in my constituency but if more people vote for UKIP then immigration will eventually get taken seriously by the big two parties. Cameron conceded on an in/out referendum due to loosing voters hand over fist.


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

Says a lot that he's able to post photos of himself with (presumably a real) firearm for the world to see and not be thrown in the clink.

What a skinny cock****er.


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## Marvin Monkey (Nov 6, 2014)

I don't mean to be offensive but there are some absolute dull as fvck people in this thread, the kind that the political spin doctors love. Shout something enough times and people will eventually believe it whether it's true or not.

The fact is UNCHECKED immigration is a massive threat to any country not just ours. One island nation cannot take on the world's refugee population without it having a massive impact on the indigenous people that have lived here for 100's if not 1000's of years. Countries are built on the back of hard working peoples, blood, sweat and tears and quite rightly future generations want to benefit from what their grandfathers, great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers constructed, fought or gave their lives for, people seem to so easily forget.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to provide a better life for yourself and your family but that doesn't mean you march into a country demanding everything it has to offer without contributing ANYTHING!

Calling people racist for talking about immigration is because either:

a) you've been brainwashed by the leftie / liberal political elite and bleeding hearts brigade (who incidentally don't give a flying fvck about you or who you have to live next to) or

B) you're just an uneducated moron that knows nothing about the history of this country or can't be bothered to educate yourself on the subject your spouting off over

The problem is with such serious issues as mass immigration it doesn't affect you UNTILL your child can't get a place in the nearest school, you have to wait months for an operation on the NHS, you or your children can't get housing when your chips are down, you can no longer bring home a living wage and feed your children, you can no longer safely walk down the road at night.

Australia, America, Canada, New Zealand even Russia have strict immigration entry requirements but i don't see all the leftie liberal scum spouting off about those countries?

Also @zyphy

Opinion polls prior to a general election mean absolutely fvck all mate their just another propaganda tool by whichever political party the pollster favours. Don't be fooled Mr, politics is a dirty game, always has and always will be, it's about the rich elite desperately clinging onto their way of life, the rest of us are nothing more than pheasants to them no matter what they "claim" to represent.


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

Marvin Monkey said:


> I don't mean to be offensive but there are some absolute dull as fvck people in this thread, the kind that the political spin doctors love. Shout something enough times and people will eventually believe it whether it's true or not.
> 
> The fact is UNCHECKED immigration is a massive threat to any country not just ours. One island nation cannot take on the world's refugee population without it having a massive impact on the indigenous people that have lived here for 100's if not 1000's of years. Countries are built on the back of hard working peoples, blood, sweat and tears and quite rightly future generations want to benefit from what their grandfathers, great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers constructed, fought or gave their lives for, people seem to so easily forget.
> 
> ...


Very well put. Agree completely.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

this whole concept of nationality is where all you UKIP'ers go wrong

the notion that this is YOUR country as opposed to a bit of land on a planet populated by humans


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## NoodleArms (Apr 17, 2011)

I got ditched on a date last night for saying I'm voting UKIP


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

welshman said:


> I agree with all aspects of their immigration policy with the exception that *British job applicants will be given preference over foreign applicants for jobs* which is positive discrimination and racist. I was on the fence because I agree with quite a few of their policies but as soon as you scratch the service they are a shady bunch.
> 
> What sealed the deal for me was a few days ago when Bill Walker, the UKIP parliamentary candidate for Aldershot labelled the Ghurkas as parasites. For a party that supposedly holds the military in such high regards it just highlights how out of touch with reality they really are.


That happens in every country in the world, you need a work permit. Any time i looked at employment applications I HAD to given preference to British / EU citizens first. Its not racist, its the law of the land and rightly so. We given preference to our own citizens first (irrespective of the race. creed etc). Giving a OAP a senior citizens a cheap cinema ticket is not racist either. Saying to some one you can't have the job because you are black is 100% racist.

For example: if you had kids and one of them went of a job and is faced with against an Indian with no British ties (using this as an example). Both capable for the job but Indian edges it, would you give it to the Indian and issue a visa. I argue no, you should favor your own citizens first as does all government policies unless there is very good reason to take them in. Examples of this are chefs, native language teachers, mining experts etc

As for the Gurkas, yes i agree with that issue. Bill Walker is a total tool for saying that. UKIP unfortunately attract a lot of idiots by nature of being right wing, but they do indeed kick people out and there are a lot more conservatives candidates who have done and said much worse, including serving jail

Farage can't control every thing everyone says in his party but its the General policies that I look at


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

Immigration certainly needs controlled but I don't think Britain will benefit if it left the EU so for that reason... I'm out!!

I will probably vote Conservative but this is purely based on our area being a Tory stronghold and I can't see any additional benefit or huge changing for the positive if another party such as labour took over. Unfortunately I'm never going to agree 100% with any of the parties policies and I don't feel strongly enough about it to essentially set up my own political party for the stuff I want to see happen.


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

JohhnyC said:


> That happens in every country in the world, you need a work permit. Any time i looked at employment applications I HAD to given preference to British / EU citizens first. Its not racist, its the law of the land and rightly so. We given preference to our own citizens first (irrespective of the race. creed etc). Giving a OAP a senior citizens a cheap cinema ticket is not racist either. Saying to some one you can't have the job because you are black is 100% racist.
> 
> For example: if you had kids and one of them went of a job and is faced with against an Indian with no British ties (using this as an example). Both capable for the job but Indian edges it, would you give it to the Indian and issue a visa. I argue no, you should favor your own citizens first as does all government policies unless there is very good reason to take them in. Examples of this are chefs, native language teachers, mining experts etc
> 
> ...


Can't disagree with any of that.

The problem I always see is that a lot of migrant workers are over doing low paid jobs that British full time benefits claimers should be doing but won't because the pay is low. Whilst I'm not trying to make a sweeping generalisation, the vast majority of people bitching that foreigners are coming over and stealing our jobs and Britain is for British are themselves migrants from the BNP.

I used to work in a factory and over time I saw the British staff get replaced with Eastern European workers. The British and EU workers were all paid and treated exactly the same, the only difference was that the EU workers actually came to work to work and not chat ****, take constant *** breaks, bitch about their job and pull sickies because they got too ****ed on the weekend.

You can't remove unskilled migrant workers without getting the unskilled British people back to work, otherwise who else is going to pick your veg or pack your chicken?


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

GPRIM said:


> Immigration certainly needs controlled but I don't think Britain will benefit if it left the EU so for that reason... I'm out!!
> 
> I will probably vote Conservative but this is purely based on our area being a Tory stronghold and I can't see any additional benefit or huge changing for the positive if another party such as labour took over. Unfortunately I'm never going to agree 100% with any of the parties policies and I don't feel strongly enough about it to essentially set up my own political party for the stuff I want to see happen.


We do get well and truly raped by the EU and need to take a massive step back.


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

Marvin Monkey said:


> I don't mean to be offensive but there are some absolute dull as fvck people in this thread, the kind that the political spin doctors love. Shout something enough times and people will eventually believe it whether it's true or not.
> 
> The fact is UNCHECKED immigration is a massive threat to any country not just ours. One island nation cannot take on the world's refugee population without it having a massive impact on the indigenous people that have lived here for 100's if not 1000's of years. Countries are built on the back of hard working peoples, blood, sweat and tears and quite rightly future generations want to benefit from what their grandfathers, great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers constructed, fought or gave their lives for, people seem to so easily forget.
> 
> ...


That so many seemingly intelligent people complicate what you just said is beyond me.


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

welshman said:


> We do get well and truly raped by the EU and need to take a massive step back.


A radical renegotiation is definitely needed. Although I feel its mainly the German and French that influence most of the crap the UK gets from the EU. I have no evidence to back this up. It really is just a general feeling statement.

I'm also of the opinion that if a person who cant speak the language, with no money or contacts can get a Job when I cant then I have a serious problem with my employability.


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## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

I would still vote UKIP as for the immigration they will tackle, and the rest of it I compared to the other parties I am more for them


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## Jay2110 (Jan 18, 2015)

Are their other policies any good?.... Ones not on immigration?


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

NoGutsNoGlory said:


> I will be voting for UKIP.
> 
> I'm not racist (I have a colour telly - boom-boom  ) but it's a numbers issue.
> 
> ...


migrants should be forced to have health insurance for two years before being able to get free NHS care, agree with UKIP totally on that.

when you go on holiday, you buy health insurance, think people coming to this country should do exactly the same thing. Will stop a lot coming over and milking it.


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## Lukehh (Nov 14, 2012)

if you actually read their manifesto UKIP has many many good common sense points not just on the buzz word immigration.

it's posts / news articles etc like this that **** me off, there will be many idiots in the past that voted labour etc doesn't mean all the voters are the same are they?

i can't wait for the general elections, polls say UKIP only have 10%? gonna be a good day  european elections all over again.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Clubber Lang said:


> migrants should be forced to have health insurance for two years before being able to get free NHS care, agree with UKIP totally on that.
> 
> when you go on holiday, you buy health insurance, think people coming to this country should do exactly the same thing. Will stop a lot coming over and milking it.


health insurance

what an ugly concept


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## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> health insurance
> 
> what an ugly concept


Why is it an ugly concept?


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## samb213 (Jun 27, 2012)

i work in the building trade and over the past few years the amount of immigrants working on site has shot up and no its not just ****ty jobs that no one in the uk wants to do its joinery, floor laying, plastering ,electrical work and there all doing it at massively cheaper rates which ultimately just drives the price down for people who are born and bred here ..i mean people rant on about it just being jobs that people in the uk are to lazy to do ..what about all the public sector workers in the uk who constantly go on strike for doing long hours for not enough pay ..like teachers firemen nurses and the police ..what would happen if lets say a flood of immigrants came over and and started undercutting there jobs ..would everyone be happy if lets say born and bred english firemen started getting replaced with random immigrants simply because they will work longer hours for less money or lets say you get a massive flush of polish doctors come to the uk and start undercutting doctors ..working longer hours for less pay and putting loads of born and bred english doctors out of work ..is that ok just because they will do the same job for cheaper ?


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

i dont really care. when/if a new PM comes in, nothing will change. nothing very noticable anyway.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Clubber Lang said:


> migrants should be forced to have health insurance for two years before being able to get free NHS care, agree with UKIP totally on that.
> 
> when you go on holiday, you buy health insurance, think people coming to this country should do exactly the same thing. Will stop a lot coming over and milking it.


exactly. how many times you been a&e and there's people there who cant even speak english, obviously contributed nothing to the country but theyre contributing to you waiting 5 hours to be seen by a doctor. make them go private until theyve contributed.


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## Goranchero (Mar 26, 2015)

Nobody complained when Polish airmen were taking away British jobs during Battle of Britain.


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## NoodleArms (Apr 17, 2011)

Goranchero said:


> Nobody complained when Polish airmen were taking away British jobs during Battle of Britain.


Really you Idiot, we went to war because of Germany invading Poland. *WE* went to war for them.


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## Marvin Monkey (Nov 6, 2014)

Goranchero said:


> Nobody complained when Polish airmen were taking away British jobs during Battle of Britain.


Don't be such an idiot; we were all fighting a common enemy. It was as much in the Polish interests as ours that Hitler was defeated. Do you honestly think the Poles could have liberated themselves? Ask the French who were a much more powerful country how their liberation efforts were going. Your comparison is nonsense.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Smitch said:


> Most UKIP voters only vote UKIP for their immigration stance, they will have no clue about any or the parties other policies.
> 
> But this is what UKIP want.


This.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> Only if u omit that tax for women!!! and we get more steroid coz we are disadvantaged from the onset :lol:


I thought you are all for "equality?"


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## TheScam (Apr 30, 2013)

mrwright said:


> If you could buy a car for 10 grand
> 
> Or near enough the exact same car in same condition et. For 2 grand which would you choose?!
> 
> ...


Got this far and had to respond before reading the rest of the thread so apologies if someone else has said this - too many people writing the same ****.

Good example, so there's a number of cars on the market (for arguments sake they are all identical in age and condition etc) for £10k and its generally accepted tat these cars aren't grossly over priced, this is a fair going rate.

Suddenly there's in influx of these same cars appearing (again, all identical in age and condition etc) for £2k. As you say, who in their right mind would pay more for the same product?

So what these new £2k cars do is drag down the market value of this model car. All of a sudden, the £10k cars are not worth £10k anymore they've lost a huge amount of their value.

Take this example into the workplace.

You have workers (any nationality/age/race it doesn't matter) doing a job for say £12 an hour, and as per the example above this is considered a fair rate of pay - no suggestion of them being overpaid.

Suddenly, an influx of foreign workers come in with barely 2 pennies to scrape together between them and are just happy to have a new life. they offer to do this same job for half the price. £6 an hour. The companies employing these workers see a cost saving opportunity here. Why pay someone £12 an hour (despite it being acknowledge as a fair rate of pay) when someone will do it for £6 (under the minimum wage, considerably underpaid for the going rate).

Now what you have is an industry, or a job that used to be worth £12 an hour and a decent income, driven down to £6 an hour. This has an industry wide impact - the next company see this cost saving and they do the same, so does the next and the next. All of a sudden our £12 an hour workers who have a mortgage / rent, a family perhaps, other responsibilities see their value dramatically decrease. They now cant do their job for £12 an hour because that's no longer the going rate for their job. They can no longer provide for their family and their responsibilities.

In the mean time, these new £6 an hour workers are on a wealthy income in their eyes because its much more than they would have got in their previous life. I wont go into where they may live, or how they may come about their homes - but I'm sure we can all make an educated guess.

THIS is why the "if you can get it cheaper elsewhere, why not" argument simply doesn't work.

If you are naïve enough to believe that you and I see the benefits of cheaper workforces and that the profits don't just go straight up the chain to the board of directors then you need to just take a long at the increasing cost of living year on year.

All that being said, I don't think UKIP or leaving the EU are necessarily the answer. I don't know the answer because im not a politician. I would like to see UKIP come in because they are someone different, but I believe we will be in a worse condition with them. At least it may shut some of the more idiotic/fanatic UKIP voters up.


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

Scammell29 said:


> Got this far and had to respond before reading the rest of the thread so apologies if someone else has said this - too many people writing the same ****.
> 
> Good example, so there's a number of cars on the market (for arguments sake they are all identical in age and condition etc) for £10k and its generally accepted tat these cars aren't grossly over priced, this is a fair going rate.
> 
> ...


The argument does work. Its demand and supply. Prices go up as well as down. In areas of job shortage/demand wages tend to go up.

Are you also suggesting a being a Politician means they know the answer/have a solution. They are generally more clueless than most!!


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

The idea that UKIP's manifesto is rascist is just getting old now, whats written in the manifesto is a very smart way of approaching the situation.

Everything else you hear on the news, papers etc is all propoganda and i will only read what is said on each parties manifesto. That's what i'm buying into with my vote.

I will be voting conservative as it benefits me most and ticks majority of the box's i wanted ticked.

Also ignore any polls on the BBC site or whatever, it's all biased. The only reason poll will be on the day and tbh, i'm not even 100% that's not going to be fixed...


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

IC1 said:


> Why is it an ugly concept?


the fact people need health insurance

health care is a human right


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## OptimumPT (Feb 7, 2012)

Remember that Rupert Murdoch controls a huge % of media coverage and he donates to the Conservative Party, funny how UKIP get labelled racist then!


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## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

JuggernautJake said:


> the fact people need health insurance
> 
> health care is a human right


I agree totally with this. Practically though I don't see its possible. Essentially if you have health insurance then you get health care. I'm not sure how many other countries worldwide have a NHS but I know for sure I pay for private healthcare to ensure I get the best possible treatment I can. The NHS just can't cope with the demand.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

welshman said:


> UKIP do have some good policies but sadly they are overshadowed by the open racism (a number of their manifesto points look like they've been taken from the 1920 Nazi Party manifesto). If anyone has actually read the Conservative manifesto, their immigration policy will prevent migrants from claiming benefits until they have worked here for a number of years which will only encourage skilled workers. Don't get me started on benefit scroungers.................
> 
> Whilst I am patriotically British* I have no intention endorsing UKIPs 4th Reich*.


Did you receive official tuition in sensationalistic, inaccurate nonsense, or are you self taught?


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## welshman (May 22, 2008)

essexboy said:


> Did you receive official tuition in sensationalistic, inaccurate nonsense, or are you self taught?


Completely self taught, much like UKIP :thumb:


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

JuggernautJake said:


> the fact people need health insurance
> 
> health care is a human right


As is freedom of movement


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

1990 said:


> As is freedom of movement[/quote In that case it was fine by you that Hitler invaded Poland right?


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

This notion that immigrant workers are driving wages down by being prepared to work for less......that's an awfully simplistic way of looking at it.....

If the legislation both existed and was enforced to prevent employers paying less than minimum wage, regardless of who they're paying it to, that problem wouldn't exist.

If you got offered work, were free and happy (well happy enough) to move..even move country...and you had the chance to earn money working more so than you do in your own country - would you not take it?

Do you *really* think it's an easy ride moving to another country to work? (And by that I mean having to sort out the move and paperwork and everything else yourself)

Immigration is not the problem. It never has been. It is a simplistic, short sighted and utterly vacuous finger pointing exercise that completely ignores the root causes of the real problems and does absolutely nothing to address any of them.

And as for conservatives being a viable option.they lied abotu every promise last time, they didn't keep any - and this time...they're lying before they even get there...

https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/27/small-business-letter-to-the-telegraph-an-attempt-to-defraud-the-electorate/

No thanks - not as leaders of our country anyway. Scumbags.

of course th real issue is the lack of viable alternatives generally...........I sat down last night and went through election manifesto's. Not one - NOT ONE - actually explained how they planned to keep their "promises" in anywhere near enough detail......

It's all just basically "Vote for us because all teh others are a bit more sh1t than we are"


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

I already voted by post. UKIP for the win.

The only reason I voted for them is because Farage is like a mild Jeremy Clarkson.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

essexboy said:


> Freedom of moment is a right.....driving your tanks into someone's country and shooting them isn't. THere's a qualitative difference there..... just saying..


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

essexboy said:


> In that case it was fine by you that Hitler invaded Poland right?


Freedom of movement, mobility rights or the right to travel is a human right concept that the constitutions of numerous states respect. As expressed in article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it asserts that:



> a citizen of a state in which that citizen is present has the liberty to travel, reside in, and/or work in any part of the state where one pleases within the limits of respect for the liberty and rights of others, and that a citizen also has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country at any time.


Why are you comparing this with 'Hitler invading Poland'?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i duno about voting ukip but i like nigel farage. at least he fking tells those cnuts in the EU straight up unlike the rest of the pussy whipped mps/meps


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

> ]Freedom of movement' date=' mobility rights or the right to travel is a human right concept that the constitutions of numerous states respect. As expressed in article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, it asserts that:[/b']
> 
> Why are you comparing this with 'Hitler invading Poland'?


Just because someone makes a statement, doesnt make it right.Try making logical rational responses, not quoting what you find on the Internet.

Hitler decided to invade Poland.If he hadnt have met any resistance, no war would have ensued.Why was Hitler wrong and your concept of free movement correct?


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

Sambuca said:


> i duno about voting ukip but i like nigel farage. at least he fking tells those cnuts in the EU straight up unlike the rest of the pussy whipped mps/meps


You mean...when he actually bothers to turn up for European Parliament..the thing he gets paid tens of thousands for but proudly .frequently doesn't attend. And what is it he tells them straight up exactly? Seriously - what has he achieved there of any note?

Nigel FARAGE

But hey - let's vote in someone who insults the electorate when they disagree with him...what could possibly go wrong. Lets vote in someone who loses his rag in a political debate (and no that doesn't show how passionate he is it shows how poorly equipped he is as a human being to be a leader)


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

essexboy said:


> Just because someone makes a statement, doesnt make it right.Try making logical rational responses, not quoting what you find on the Internet.
> 
> Hitler decided to invade Poland.If he hadnt have met any resistance, no war would have ensued.Why was Hitler wrong and your concept of free movement correct?


Because Hitler sought to restrict teh movement of those who didn't "fit" with his ideas. Because Hitler's plan for invading Poland specifically stated that there should be hostile action BEFORE a declaration of war...in other words...the first action of teh war was actually Germany dropping bombs on Poland. Before declaring war. So the war was a given and the "no resistance" idea is ludicrous.

Because if there WAS no resistance he wouldn't have stopped at Poland...and indeed...he didn't.

Because comparing free movement in what is supposed to be peace time with a deliberate act of war intended to start empire building is ..just...really?? That's the best analogy you can find??


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

kuju said:


> This notion that immigrant workers are driving wages down by being prepared to work for less......that's an awfully simplistic way of looking at it.....
> 
> If the legislation both existed and was enforced to prevent employers paying less than minimum wage, regardless of who they're paying it to, that problem wouldn't exist.
> 
> ...


The problem would still exist because the minimum wage is set for all jobs, e.g a brick layer starts working for minimum wage its still massively under cuting others.

What do you mean not one party explained how they'll keep their promises? Ukips manifesto is fully costed. I'd love to see Labour's manifesto sent to a economist or even better the green parties lol


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## Lukehh (Nov 14, 2012)

JuggernautJake said:


> the fact people need health insurance
> 
> health care is a human right


tell that to the rest of the world.

health care requires money, this isn't a communist country the NHS is ran by tax payers of this country's money so only people from THIS country should benefit we aint a world health service.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Lukehh said:


> tell that to the rest of the world.
> 
> health care requires money, this isn't a communist country the NHS is ran by tax payers of this country's money so only people from THIS country should benefit we aint a world health service.


it should be global yes, that would be the ultimate goal and should be the end goal.

but we can show a good example and offer it to all, we could afford it 10 times over if we saved money else where

also I've paid 6 months of tax my entire life and I'm 24.. do I deserve it?


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## Lukehh (Nov 14, 2012)

JuggernautJake said:


> it should be global yes, that would be the ultimate goal and should be the end goal.
> 
> but we can show a good example and offer it to all, we could afford it 10 times over if we saved money else where
> 
> also I've paid 6 months of tax my entire life and I'm 24.. do I deserve it?


the NHS should provide care to the world? are you insane?

this is the NATIONAL health service, for OUR country, not the GLOBAL health service.

we could afford it if we saved money else where... do you know how much debt were in for a start? never mind the state of our own country and services but you want to skip all that and plough money into giving the world a free health care service?

theres countries MUCH richer than ours and all of them make you pay your own health care, because that is the right and logical thing to do so.

your UK born and have at least worked and paid tax at some point, the issue is theres billions being lost to people coming over here never contributing and even people just making a visit to the UK just for the health care!


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## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> it should be global yes, that would be the ultimate goal and should be the end goal.


Just to clarify, when you say "it should be global", do you mean you would like to see our NHS providing global health care, or do you mean that each countries health care system should be fully accommodating, free of charge, to every international visitor (legal or otherwise) that goes there?


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

IC1 said:


> Just to clarify, when you say "it should be global", do you mean you would like to see our NHS providing global health care, or do you mean that each countries health care system should be fully accommodating, free of charge, to every international visitor (legal or otherwise) that goes there?


every country in the world should provide free health care to everyone regardless of nationality is what I meant yes

I don't mean we should be an international hub for people to come to to get health care lol ...we cannot afford that for 7 billion people of course!


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Marvin Monkey said:


> I don't mean to be offensive but there are some absolute dull as fvck people in this thread, the kind that the political spin doctors love. Shout something enough times and people will eventually believe it whether it's true or not.
> 
> The fact is UNCHECKED immigration is a massive threat to any country not just ours. One island nation cannot take on the world's refugee population without it having a massive impact on the indigenous people that have lived here for 100's if not 1000's of years. Countries are built on the back of hard working peoples, blood, sweat and tears and quite rightly future generations want to benefit from what their grandfathers, great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers constructed, fought or gave their lives for, people seem to so easily forget.
> 
> ...


lmfao yet the poll's leading up to the 2010 election were VERY accurate










let's just wait and see what happens.


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

essexboy said:


> Just because someone makes a statement, doesnt make it right.Try making logical rational responses, not quoting what you find on the Internet.
> 
> Hitler decided to invade Poland.If he hadnt have met any resistance, no war would have ensued.Why was Hitler wrong and your concept of free movement correct?


Read this post about 5 times now and it still doesn't make any sense.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

kuju said:


> You mean...when he actually bothers to turn up for European Parliament..the thing he gets paid tens of thousands for but proudly .frequently doesn't attend. And what is it he tells them straight up exactly? Seriously - what has he achieved there of any note?
> 
> Nigel FARAGE
> 
> But hey - let's vote in someone who insults the electorate when they disagree with him...what could possibly go wrong. Lets vote in someone who loses his rag in a political debate (and no that doesn't show how passionate he is it shows how poorly equipped he is as a human being to be a leader)


lol this. so much bull sh!t, cant wait to see the smirk on his face wiped away when he doesnt win in his constituency


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

Lukehh said:


> the NHS should provide care to the world? are you insane?
> 
> this is the NATIONAL health service, for OUR country, not the GLOBAL health service.
> 
> ...


So you think we should live in a country where paramedics reach for your wallet to see if you are insured before they perform medical care on you? Why should healthcare be dictated by how much money you have like the American model?

The NHS should never be privatised and sold off to big companies to make money from peoples suffering.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Lukehh said:


> the NHS should provide care to the world? are you insane?
> 
> this is the NATIONAL health service, for OUR country, not the GLOBAL health service.
> 
> ...


I have worked for 30 years in the UK and always paid into the system. Never took a days benefits.

Myself and my family obviously use the NHS and have had pretty good care when inside the system, such as hospital etc. Where it falls down is things like trying to get GP appointments and referrals etc.

At present and due to redundancy 18 months ago, I now work in the Middle East on a good tax free wage.

However, I now have private medical insurance here to cover myself and my wife during visits. If I'm honest, I can phone for an appointment and get seen to in the same day now and when I needed a back scan for heavy bruising on my lower back recently from a rugby injury, I got a scan the next day.

Both systems have their merits and downfalls, but having been in both, private insurance for me and my family is personally more beneficial.


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## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

1990 said:


> Why should healthcare be dictated by how much money you have like the American model?


Health care requires resources to provide. Resources require money via income. The NHS gives it's resources to more people than it has paying in to it. If it was a private business, it would be bankrupt by now. At some point, it may not be a question of ethics and morals any longer, it may boil down to the fact that we simply cannot afford to keep this system going.


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

IC1 said:


> Health care requires resources to provide. Resources require money via income. The NHS gives it's resources to more people than it has paying in to it. If it was a private business, it would be bankrupt by now. At some point, it may not be a question of ethics and morals any longer, it may boil down to the fact that we simply cannot afford to keep this system going.


Indeed so scrap trident and start focusing on tax avoidance of millionaires and big companies.

There is a few hundred billion straight away.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

1990 said:


> Read this post about 5 times now and it still doesn't make any sense.


Ask your mum.


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## Lukehh (Nov 14, 2012)

1990 said:


> So you think we should live in a country where paramedics reach for your wallet to see if you are insured before they perform medical care on you? Why should healthcare be dictated by how much money you have like the American model?
> 
> The NHS should never be privatised and sold off to big companies to make money from peoples suffering.


I pay my tax for the NHS for myself and this country's residents, not for visitors or free loaders.


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

essexboy said:


> Ask your mum.


You have great debating skills there mate. Are you the forum idiot?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

1990 said:


> You have great debating skills there mate. Are you the forum idiot?


It is you who cannot understand.Im not making allowances, for your inabilities.I was merely suggesting that you ask an adult, who maybe able to help you.Perhaps a Teacher?


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

1990 said:


> Indeed so scrap trident and start focusing on tax avoidance of millionaires and big companies.
> 
> There is a few hundred billion straight away.


trident costs 2 billion a year for the 10th time lol, get that silly 100 billion figure out your head


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

> And this country is bursting with rich Saudi immigrants :laugh: :lol: NOT


London is.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

> I can say I have met many myself.....Well any for that matter!!!!


You've met many? Wait wut.


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

essexboy said:


> It is you who cannot understand.Im not making allowances, for your inabilities.I was merely suggesting that you ask an adult, who maybe able to help you.Perhaps a Teacher?


You're the dullard that doesn't understand what freedom of movement means.

"Hitler invading Poland" :lol:


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i think people are forgetting dont hate the player hate the game


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

dann19900 said:


> trident costs 2 billion a year for the 10th time lol, get that silly 100 billion figure out your head


The equivalent of 3300 extra nurses.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

> I can say I have met many myself.....Well any for that matter!!!!


Why would you meet them? They don't exactly go down teh pub do they? 

Doesn't London have more billionaires than any other city in the world at this point? (Sunday Times Rich List)


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Natty Steve said:


> A large number (Majority) of these immigrants come to this country because they don't have a pot to p1ss in. Their standard of living in their own country is appalling so they troop across n pass through country after country* to reach this golden ticket called the "UK". Even on the dole they hit the jackpot. They bring crime' date=* just watch an episode of crime watch its like a game of spot the white man! Sorry I mean indigenous person. This is because they come here with nowt, *they undercut the the uk's working man then send half of that money back to support their family in Romania, Poland,* or which ever other sh!te hole they have come from. They may even get a job with the going rate stopping an indigenous person from doing that same job, then what do they do? Pour that cash back into their own economy, taking it from ours.


Exactly, this is why I argue that this does not help the UK economy, wages etc are not put back into the UK, cash leaves in, they spend very little yet add to the social pressure of schools roads, council services, NHS burden. Many pay little tax, get cash in hand, live several to a room and export all their savings, i.e. their home countries. An American or Australian will spend more here, live a richer lifestyle, invest more back into the economy, keeping shop keepers, pubs, clothes stores, electrical stores in business etc, pay more tax than an African for example. Again before anybody jumps on the racist band wagon, my point is related to debunking the economic argument that many parties love to spout



> In general if people are happy, content, paid enough to live on and feed their families. They will not migrate half way around the world seeking a better life.
> 
> The uk has become the arm pit, the sewer of Europe, taking in all kinds of waifs, strays, and scumbags. There are camps in Calais with people queuing to enter Britain illegally because of our benefits system, national health etc etc etc. A system WE the British people built for ourselves.
> 
> Harsh but true.....


Yes EU rules state that any non EU migrants seeking refuge must do so in the first EU country they land in. For north Africans, its generally Italy. Yet they manage to pass through 3 or 4 countries until they get to Calais waiting to cross to the UK. In many African countries crime is seen in a different light. In Nigerian scamming someone often seen as a smart and cunning thing to do. Several Nigerians have told me this! They have no interest in our social values, our government, system sense of unity, just come to take, rarely contribute. I realize I am stereotyping here and many do contribute but the underlying point remains.

I have no issue with any race or nationality coming here as long as they contribute to the way of life here, speak the language, live by the rules imposed upon them add to the unity of Britain, report a crime of you see it etc I'm Irish and in my early years here I used to hear all sorts of crap from my own lot, ditching Britain, being all pro IRA, supporting any football team that plays against the England. That attitude irritates me, if they don't like the place, p#ss off, and stop bleeding it and dishing it for day. Its hypocritical. You make a country your home and treat it as such.


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## Cojocaru (Jul 30, 2014)

RugbyLad said:


> Don't understand why people constantly bash UKIP for being "anti immigration" it's so naive... if you want to bash UKIP fair enough but at least be logical and make a fair point. UKIP just want to put a immigration policy in place that benefits the UK, like America/Australia not out right stop immigration, Farage is married to a German... Come here to work and pay tax, that's fine...
> 
> This thread is just pointless "the type of people" what a sweeping generalisation...


Exactly, and he's the only politician who actually stands by what he says..

Trouble is with an open door policy with a high percentage of a low skilled work force, this has bought the standard of living down, coupled with low hourly wages....Not everyone in the UK has the ability to do these great paying jobs.

What's not to like with an Australian points system...common sense...I've said this every time I've been able to vote for 20+ years and if you want another 20 + years of the same, then vote the same.

But in 20 /30 years time, you won't be able to bury your head in the sand cause this country won't be the England we were primarily born in, there be no going back.....


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

People who don't vote UKIP are all racists.


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## chris1234 (May 10, 2008)

I am yet to see how UKIP's immigration policy is racist. They don't want to ban all immigrants, just limit it a bit more like the U.S. And Australia. We just have too many people for such a small island. For example, compare the population of England to that of Canada and Australia and look at the size of their land mass.


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## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

Why was Farage not included in the BBC Question Time Leaders debate last night? :confused1:


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## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

IC1 said:


> Why was Farage not included in the BBC Question Time Leaders debate last night? :confused1:


He had his own show called ask Farrage on BBC one , think he got 45 minutes of exclusive air time.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

nitricdave said:


> He had his own show called ask Farrage on BBC one , think he got 45 minutes of exclusive air time.


he also has a film called "this is england"


----------



## IC1 (Aug 1, 2014)

nitricdave said:


> Cameron has his own show called this is the United States of Europe


To be fair, he came across far better than Miliband and Clegg on QT (IMO at least). I haven't watched the 'Ask Nigel Farage' one yet, that's next on the list.


----------



## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

IC1 said:


> To be fair, he came across far better than Miliband and Clegg on QT (IMO at least). I haven't watched the 'Ask Nigel Farage' one yet, that's next on the list.


Ed Milliband is the UKs equivilant of Sarah Palin anybody would come across better than him imho. Clegg is for whatever reason an also ran.


----------



## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

Marvin Monkey said:


> I don't mean to be offensive but there are some absolute dull as fvck people in this thread, the kind that the political spin doctors love. Shout something enough times and people will eventually believe it whether it's true or not.
> 
> The fact is UNCHECKED immigration is a massive threat to any country not just ours. One island nation cannot take on the world's refugee population without it having a massive impact on the indigenous people that have lived here for 100's if not 1000's of years. Countries are built on the back of hard working peoples, blood, sweat and tears and quite rightly future generations want to benefit from what their grandfathers, great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers constructed, fought or gave their lives for, people seem to so easily forget.
> 
> ...


Round of applause for this man


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Why does God spare this life and let innocent mountain climbers die in Napal..?


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

SickCurrent said:


> Why does God spare this life and let innocent mountain climbers die in Napal..?


Because he will be the leader of this nation one day and I will show him this post you made so he can ship you back.


----------



## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> health insurance
> 
> what an ugly concept


So are you ok with having your hard earned tax plouged into services that every countries wafe, strays and sponge abuse? Im a working person, it doesnt bothere me that that i pay over 500quid a month and i still have to pay for dental, eye tests, perscriptions, i get fcuk all for free, but what does p1ss me the fk off is that someone can come here and get everything that i have to pay for, FOR FREE when they have NEVER paid a penny in. If you think this is ok, you are part of the reason this country is going down the sh1tter!!


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## Chrisallan (Jul 11, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> Why does God spare this life and let innocent mountain climbers die in Napal..?


If there is a god,why did he cause the earthquake in the first place?

Or should I say,why did he let all those people die in that earthquake?


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

MFM said:


> Because he will be the leader of this nation one day and I will show him this post you made so he can ship you back.


That will be impossible as he will have censored the internet long before you get a chance...


----------



## Shadow (Aug 20, 2004)

For those voting UKIP I have a couple of genuine questions for you

1. UKIP policies all revolve around immigration control in some form or another including their policies on rescuing the NHS. Do you consider these immigrant 'scroungers' any different from UK born and bred individuals who have never done a days work in their lives but still manage to live in brand new 4 bedroom houses, own a newish car, have 6 children and drink and smoke like it's going out of fashion?

2. Do you really think controlling immigration will sort out all our problems including mass debt, housing crisis, employment?

3. I agree that something needs to be done regarding immigration but to me there are just as important issues which are a massive drain on resource which accountable for by 2nd and 3rd generation families that see unemployment and benefit entitlement as a way of life. How are UKIP (or any other party) going to be able to bring this issue under control?

Genuinely interested in people's views!


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Pinky said:


> So are you ok with having your hard earned tax plouged into services that every countries wafe, strays and sponge abuse? Im a working person, it doesnt bothere me that that i pay over 500quid a month and i still have to pay for dental, eye tests, perscriptions, i get fcuk all for free, but what does p1ss me the fk off is that someone can come here and get everything that i have to pay for, FOR FREE when they have NEVER paid a penny in. If you think this is ok, you are part of the reason this country is going down the sh1tter!!


there own country should have it in the first place


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> he also has a film called "this is england"


Farage is a well known skinhead who walks into Pakistani owned cornershops and threatens them with machetes. I've seen a video of it bro.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

I agree that an immigration control policy is important for any country but that moron of mr Farage wants to take out the right to vote to foreigners for example.

Now, I'm a foreigner I came from Italy 7 years ago. I never asked any sort of benefits, I started working from my first week in UK because I went out from day 1 and start to give 50 cv a day.

I started with a very humble job and during the years I made a career by working hard, always coming to work first and leaving for last, never called sick not even once and my lateness in the past years can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

I'm now a successful manager and I pay LOADS OF TAXES and guess what? I'm fine with it because I'm happy with what I earn after tax.

my wife she's a foreigner too and she works full time and she pays loads of taxes too.

We spend money mostly in this country, we don't break the law and we pay taxes and probably and hopefully in a few years time we will buy an house here, so, why the heck we shouldn't have the right to vote???

I'm sorry but Farage is only a fanatic that fills his mouth with a few good ideas mixed in a bunch of racist nonsense and please don't start to say that the guy is not racist because almost at every speech it comes out with stupid comments like his last one about a black guy "his half black" and that was a soft one.

Yes you have to admit that foreigners like my misses and I are convenient, because they give revenue to UK but mr Farage always forgets to mention those type of foreigner but always talk about the bad foreigners in a way like he wants to insinuate that the foreigners like my wife and I are rare like unicorns when actually pretty much all the people I know fit the "good foreigner" description.


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

zyphy said:


> London is.


In reference to rich Saudi immigrants. Yes I have seen a few in London too on YT videos, driving around in flash cars etc. not being jealous as I'm not materialistic, purely observation.

The reason London attracts the rich is because it is the financial crime capital of the world and works for the betterment of those who are already highly privileged by offering lucrative investments with tax loopholes.

London has become the Achilles heel of the UK and this is nothing to be proud of.


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> there own country should have it in the first place


Totally agree, but they dont. So are you ok with people abusing our services?


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> there own country should have it in the first place


That's not our fault. Why should we pay for them?


----------



## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

IronJohnDoe said:


> I agree that an immigration control policy is important for any country but that moron of mr Farage wants to take out the right to vote to foreigners for example.
> 
> Now, I'm a foreigner I came from Italy 7 years ago. I never asked any sort of benefits, I started working from my first week in UK because I went out from day 1 and start to give 50 cv a day.
> 
> ...


Imo you gotta be here 5 years+ earned a wage, pay their way, then and only then they can vote.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

Pinky said:


> Totally agree, but they dont. So are you ok with people abusing our services?


if it means life or death then I'm okay with it, what would YOU do?

i'd rather we helped them in there own country though... give a man a fish and he eats for a day, give him a rod and teach him how to fish bla bla you know how it goes lol



EpicSquats said:


> That's not our fault. Why should we pay for them?


we have a moral obligation, being born into a developed and successful country we should help the less fortunate


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

JuggernautJake said:


> if it means life or death then I'm okay with it, what would YOU do?
> 
> we have a moral obligation, being born into a developed and successful country we should help the less fortunate


Death for a uk grandma while a romanian has a kid


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

dann19900 said:


> Death for a uk grandma while a romanian has a kid


why would that happen?

and what has nationality got to do with it... I do not recognize nationality as a group we can separate people into


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

JuggernautJake said:


> why would that happen?
> 
> and what has nationality got to do with it... I do not recognize nationality as a group we can separate people into


because the nhs don't have a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and if other countries are coming here to use the nhs then something else gets cut, probably old people being operated on.

Well you don't agree with having a *national* health service either then


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

dann19900 said:


> because the nhs don't have a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and if other countries are coming here to use the nhs then something else gets cut, probably old people being operated on.
> 
> Well you don't agree with having a *national* health service either then


that is correct I don't, I believe in a global health service

but I do concede we don't have infinite money, that's why I think the long term plan would be for developed countries to help everyone else set up there own free public health service


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> we have a moral obligation, being born into a developed and successful country we should help the less fortunate


I'm fine with you giving your money to other people, just don't take mine. People with your attitude are always generous with other people's money.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

What it really boils down to, what really p1sses the average person off, is when you work 40 or 50 hours a week and some lazy fvck who does nothing and sits about at home or wherever is living on benefits paid for by my taxes. I have to work for what I get in life. I pay my own way. Every single other grownup person on the planet should as well, no exceptions.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

everyone seems to be under the impression in my work that if UKIP get in, we'll be like the UK from V for Vendetta within about 3 weeks.

I don't buy it


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

Pinky said:


> Imo you gotta be here 5 years+ earned a wage, pay their way, then and only then they can vote.


So you are saying that a person that pay taxes for your country shouldn't have the right to vote if for example works from a couple of years?

Alright mate I get why you are going to vote ukip, no offence just remember that the capital of your country is been builded by foreigners and that's history so I don't get why so much extremism going on with ukip voters...


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## Beats (Jun 9, 2011)

BNP


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

IronJohnDoe said:


> So you are saying that a person that pay taxes for your country shouldn't have the right to vote if for example works from a couple of years?
> 
> Alright mate I get why you are going to vote ukip, no offence just remember that the capital of your country is been builded by foreigners and that's history so I don't get why so much extremism going on with ukip voters...


Anyone that pays tax's in the country should be allowed to vote.

Whether they've been here for 20 years or 20 minutes.

If you stop paying tax for whatever reason i think you should lose your vote.

Reason - If your not paying in , you shouldn't get a say on how it's spent.


----------



## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

Shadow said:


> 1. Do you consider these immigrant 'scroungers' any different from UK born and bred individuals who have never done a days work in their lives but still manage to live in brand new 4 bedroom houses, own a newish car, have 6 children and drink and smoke like it's going out of fashion?


I have never seen a dole scrounger that fits this criteria. Your stereotype is a bid to deem all UK born who claim the dole as less than human, while making an argument for the rights of foreigners to scrounge. Reality is, anyone who scrounges is bad, foreign or not.



Shadow said:


> 2. Do you really think controlling immigration will sort out all our problems including mass debt, housing crisis, employment?


Selective immigration is like flood protection - Services are struggling with overpopulation, some locations have shut down, the only way to stop a full collapse is to limit immigration to remove additional pressure on housing crisis, help reduce national debt and unemployment.



Shadow said:


> 3. I agree that something needs to be done regarding immigration but to me there are just as important issues which are a massive drain on resource which accountable for by 2nd and 3rd generation families that see unemployment and benefit entitlement as a way of life. How are UKIP (or any other party) going to be able to bring this issue under control?


It seems from all your statements that you are in favour of keeping immigration the way it is and that you favour foreign born citizens over national ones. If you want to someone to blame for dole generation, blame Labour, if you want someone to fix it, vote UKIP.



IronJohnDoe said:


> I agree that an immigration control policy is important for any country but that moron of mr Farage wants to take out the right to vote to foreigners for example.


There are two separate statements here, one about immigration and one about voting.

Where in UKIP's manifesto does it say he will remove the right for foreign born UK citizens to vote locally or nationally in the UK?



IronJohnDoe said:


> I'm now a successful manager and I pay LOADS OF TAXES


You are no special snowflake, I too pay an exorbitant amount of tax. Many do.



IronJohnDoe said:


> I'm sorry but Farage is only a fanatic that fills his mouth with a few good ideas mixed in a bunch of racist nonsense


Because racism is not wanting to flood your country to beyond capacity with people from all over the world, causing all your services to fail and eventually crashing the system? I must be a racist then.



IronJohnDoe said:


> Yes you have to admit that foreigners like my misses and I are convenient, because they give revenue to UK but mr Farage always forgets to mention those type of foreigner but always talk about the bad foreigners.


Farage has consistently said he favours a points based immigration system that would ensure immigration if there was a job here that none of our UK born people could do first.


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

IronJohnDoe said:


> So you are saying that a person that pay taxes for your country shouldn't have the right to vote if for example works from a couple of years?
> 
> Alright mate I get why you are going to vote ukip, no offence just remember that the capital of your country is been builded by foreigners and that's history so I don't get why so much extremism going on with ukip voters...


I had to wait 18 years... 2 of those years I was paying tax and I was born in this country!!!!

:tongue:


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

IronJohnDoe said:


> So you are saying that a person that pay taxes for your country shouldn't have the right to vote if for example works from a couple of years?
> 
> Alright mate I get why you are going to vote ukip, no offence just remember that the capital of your country is been builded by foreigners and that's history so I don't get why so much extremism going on with ukip voters...


No they shouldn't. They haven't been apart of this country t know enough about politics.

Im not voting ukip so get your facts straight before you start barking at me, i said i might vote ukip!!!!!!


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## GCMAX (Dec 31, 2013)

JuggernautJake said:


> we have a moral obligation, being born into a developed and successful country we should help the less fortunate


We send billions in foreign aid to other countries and none of the money is properly accounted for. It ends up in the hands of vile dictators and extremists who make life hell for normal people. Eg: Boko Haram in Somalia or Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. This isn't by chance by the way, we are still plundering Africa for resources and its easier to do this by keeping warlords happy and the people intimidated and uneducated.

If we really gave a sh1t about arid third world lands, we would be create an international effort to build desalination plants on the coasts and pipe networks inland so they can have fresh water and irrigate the land for farming. We will never do this because simply profit overrides morality every single time.


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

JuggernautJake said:


> if it means life or death then I'm okay with it, what would YOU do?
> 
> i'd rather we helped them in there own country though... give a man a fish and he eats for a day, give him a rod and teach him how to fish bla bla you know how it goes lol
> 
> we have a moral obligation, being born into a developed and successful country we should help the less fortunate


I strongly agree with you aint pain in your not entitled to get diddly out. I do agree with the give him a fish thing but the majority of these people dont want to help themselves, they love the handouts for free. Use red nose day for ex. We have been helping them for years, even given them stuff to help themselves, machinery etc which is left to rot in fields. They have no intention of helping themselves. X

There's a difference between helping someone and wiping their backside for them. X


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## Cojocaru (Jul 30, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> Why does God spare this life and let innocent mountain climbers die in Napal..?


Because God has something special in mind for England 

A way forward....


----------



## nitricdave (Dec 12, 2014)

He was bloody lucky. He reckoned if the seat belt had a few inches more play he would have lost his head.


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

nitricdave said:


> He was bloody lucky. He reckoned if the seat belt had a few inches more play he would have lost his head.
> 
> View attachment 170942


Too right mate. I actually felt sorry for the poor cvnt when I saw these pics


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## DubSelecta (Sep 1, 2014)

I enjoy seeing Ukip members making the news for racist comments or generally being idiots. I also like seeing Cameron forget what team he supports while trying not to sound like an Eton posh boy while calling other people thieves. Millibean for saying he'd rather see a tory government than work with the SNP. Just wish politics was less like a school playground. Always gonna be that way though.


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## OptimumPT (Feb 7, 2012)

Conservatives can kiss my a.s, I live in a small county and they have cut funding by £15million this year meaning that I have to pay to have my grass cuttings taken away.


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

OptimumPT said:


> Conservatives can kiss my a.s, I live in a small county and they have cut funding by £15million this year meaning that I have to pay to have my grass cuttings taken away.


First world problems Yo!


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## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

EpicSquats said:


> That's not our fault. Why should we pay for them?


A lot of these countries were colonised by Britain so in a way some of it is!


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

1990 said:


> A lot of these countries were colonised by Britain so in a way some of it is!


If you feel that way, you pay for them then, don't take my money.


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## Beats (Jun 9, 2011)

EpicSquats said:


> If you feel that way, you pay for them then, don't take my money.


Just think @JuggernautJake has only ever paid a few months worth of taxes in his life and he gets free healthcare etc..

You know the NHS that you contribute too!

He takes your money! :lol:


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Dizzeee said:


> Just think @JuggernautJake* has only ever paid a few months worth of taxes in his life and he gets free healthcare etc.. *
> 
> You know the NHS that you contribute too!
> 
> He takes your money! :lol:


It's always the lazy cvnts who don't work that want the working people to share.


----------



## Shadow (Aug 20, 2004)

GCMAX said:


> I have never seen a dole scrounger that fits this criteria. Your stereotype is a bid to deem all UK born who claim the dole as less than human, while making an argument for the rights of foreigners to scrounge. Reality is, anyone who scrounges is bad, foreign or not.
> 
> Selective immigration is like flood protection - Services are struggling with overpopulation, some locations have shut down, the only way to stop a full collapse is to limit immigration to remove additional pressure on housing crisis, help reduce national debt and unemployment.
> 
> ...


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

GCMAX said:


> In reference to rich Saudi immigrants. Yes I have seen a few in London too on YT videos, driving around in flash cars etc. not being jealous as I'm not materialistic, purely observation.
> 
> The reason London attracts the rich is because it is the financial crime capital of the world and works for the betterment of those who are already highly privileged by offering lucrative investments with tax loopholes.
> 
> London has become the Achilles heel of the UK and this is nothing to be proud of.


what's the point of your post? Quite a few of them spend a fortune on stuff like properties thus contributing a lot with regards to tax. They also expand properties further creating jobs etc etc. people will complain about immigrants when it suits them


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

SickCurrent said:


> Why does God spare this life and let innocent mountain climbers die in Napal..?


Sickc providing the ments :lol:


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Ill tell you how immigration has directly affected by business.For 25 years I was a full on 24 hours a day Motor dealer.I would buy up to 30 cars a month.Mainly via auction houses.After a good day,I would asess how to dispose of my stock.Id make calls to dealers with sites,if the cars werent up to scratch mechanically, they would be cosmetically "enhanced" and re entered in another sale.

Virtually every friday, Id have 8/10 cars, at auction being prepared by my two cleaners ready for Saturdays sale.

Come Saturday afternoon, Id either be a hero or zero.I may earn 2k, maybe nothing.That was how it was for at least 10/15 regulars who used to play the auction game.

Buy from some back street auction.Pull the car round, then sell it at a main stream auction that had excellent facilities and higher sales prices.Usually this was BCA.

This is how VAT works.If you buy a car for £1000, and sell it for £2000.You pay vat on the margin.Currently 20%.So in this case, £200.Your then subject to tax on the remaining £800.Obviously, if you have receipts, they are offset.However, the VAT margin was always stinging.One car for me, then one for HMRC.

Conversely, any cars that were retailed to the public, had the same structure.Plus a warranty, mileage check etc.Ive known a few traders, get banged up for inadvertently selling clocked cars.If it goes wonky trading standards are on the door.You end up in court,and TRUST ME a car dealer never wins.

Besides the fact, that some of us are actually good guys.I couldnt sleep at night knowing Ive sold a 19 year old girl who trusted me, a potential death trap, so I can earn £200.

So we have trading standards, HMRC and our conciousneses to deal with.However, it was an even playing field.We knew how to factor these variables in, and did so accordingly.

Fast Foward to today.Visit any auction.The once diverse mix of traders has all but disappeared.The white guys,The black guys the Jews and the Sikhs.Even "Italian Tony" (you can guess his nationality) have given it up.Only a few "proper" traders remain.

There are floods of Eastern Europeans who have decided to set themselves up as Motor dealers.The thing is they dont want to do it right.Virtually none are VAT registered, wont pay tax are not on the radar.So if that old dustbin that kills your daughter is shown to have a bent mot,Trading standards wont find em, cos theyve fuc.ked off back to Idontgiveashi.tistan .

All very well lauding how hard immigrants work.Sure, competition is fine.However, when its not on the same playing field it aint.You cant compete with someone who wants to cheat the system.

Thats how I and countless others have lost the ability to earn.Luckily Ive other strings to my bow.Many havent.Until it inpacts you directly you cant comment.

I wont bother to mention the gang who threatened to knife me one friday night either.


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

@essexboy

replace the word "eastern europeans" with "people" and it still stands

anyone can do what you just said why does it have to immigrants... plenty of shi.tty knock off nigel brits too


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

Shadow said:


> In answer to your first response that you have never met a dole scrounger that fits my criteria. I'm afraid I know quite a few...including my brother. My brother has never worked in his life (he's now 40 years of age) currently resides in a brand new build 4 bedroom semi-detached, owns 2 cars and a motorbike and due to the various benefits he is 'eligible' for worked it out that he would need to earn £37k after tax to have the same 'style' of living as he does now. They are his words not mine. The current system promotes that lifestyle to a certain extent and we wonder why people want to come to this country...You can't blame them!
> 
> In answer to your last statement, you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried, *I think immigration has to be controlled a lot more than it is currently*. The point I'm trying to make is that even if immigration is controlled, *unless they change the current mindset of the lifetime benefit claimants then when all the immigrants that are 'nicking' our jobs are sent home the will be a large gap in the employment market*. Britain needs immigrants. Always has and always will. But only immigrants who want to contribute to society financially and socially. in the same way that Brits who refuse to contribute to society and are tempted by the lifetime benefits system then they need to be dealt with also.


Guess you didn't read ukips policy on capping benefits? You sound like a perfect ukip voter


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm a foreigner and even I wonder how the Brits have become so unpatriotic. I mean come on, you guys invaded every country in the world worth invading, killed thousands of men, women and children in the process and benefited from other people's misery for centuries.

Now all of a sudden, a political party who aren't afraid to air their honest views(UKIP) and the only party that aren't a complete bunch of bullsh*tters are being hated, called racist and made out to be decedents of Hitler. While parties like Labour and their joke of a leader, Ed 'I look and sound like a British McLovin' Miliband, have somehow managed to become popular for some unbeknown reason.

You lot disappoint me. Lol


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

JuggernautJake said:


> @essexboy
> 
> replace the word "eastern europeans" with "people" and it still stands
> 
> anyone can do what you just said why does it have to immigrants... plenty of shi.tty knock off nigel brits too


No.This thread has developed into a discussion about immigration.Its pertinent,to mention nationality.Sure, anyone can do it.Maybe some did.However, it was never noticed or had any impact.


----------



## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Smitch said:


> *Trades people have been ripping off the UK public for years, it's about time they had a wake up call*.
> 
> And people seem to forget that immigrants do all the sh1tty jobs that none of the UK's fine residents will do and see as being beneath them. I've worked in many big offices in London and i have never come across a cleaner in any of those buildings that was English, we're our own worst enemies.
> 
> I know plenty of immigrants, most of who pay more in Uk tax each year than the average Brit earns in a year. The bottom line is that we need immigrants, we just need to make sure that when they are here they are paying into the system and not just taking out of it,


I love it when idiots say that no offence mate but how have trades people been ripping people off for years? we offer a service that you clearly cant do yourself you can apply that logic to any job why are sales men paid so high for doing jack 5hite? It gets paid a fortune compared to trades so i think there ripping people off? the guy who does my seo is probably ripping me off if i can find an immigrant to do it for half price but at the end of the day hes providing a service that i cant do my self.

And its quite clear to see that all the people who say if they can come and do it for cheaper then good clearly havnt lost thier jobs or had to compete with some one willing to work for half your wage.

When you have a mortgage, bills and a family to support and for 15 year you were supporting them on £12-15 an hour then all of a sudden some one tells you that rusev is willing to work for £6.50 so your job is now £6.50 how do you expect to pay the bills?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

jason7474utd said:


> I love it when idiots say that no offence mate but how have trades people been ripping people off for years? *we offer a service that you clearly cant do yourself* you can apply that logic to any job why are sales men paid so high for doing jack 5hite? It gets paid a fortune compared to trades so i think there ripping people off? the guy who does my seo is probably ripping me off if i can find an immigrant to do it for half price but at the end of the day hes providing a service that i cant do my self.
> 
> And its quite clear to see that all the people who say if they can come and do it for cheaper then good clearly havnt lost thier jobs or had to compete with some one willing to work for half your wage.
> 
> When you have a mortgage, bills and a family to support and for 15 year you were supporting them on £12-15 an hour then all of a sudden some one tells you that rusev is willing to work for £6.50 so your job is now £6.50 how do you expect to pay the bills?


A lot of trades people prey on this fact and charge extortionate prices, gas engineers and plumbers to name just a couple, some charge hundreds of pounds an hour in some instances.

If you think that's not a rip off then crack on, but if I can get someone to do the same job for a far cheaper price then I'd be a mug not to get them to do it.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

GCMAX said:


> There are two separate statements here, one about immigration and one about voting.
> 
> Where in UKIP's manifesto does it say he will remove the right for foreign born UK citizens to vote locally or nationally in the UK?


He said it during an interview, he clearly stated it, and it's kind of silly considering that his wife comes from Germany.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

GCMAX said:


> You are no special snowflake, I too pay an exorbitant amount of tax. Many do.


I never claimed to be special, only to be a successful manager and that I am paying a lot of taxes, I like how you tried so hard to change the meaning of each of my sentences, I really must have hit you in the personal.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

Pinky said:


> No they shouldn't. They haven't been apart of this country t know enough about politics.
> 
> Im not voting ukip so get your facts straight before you start barking at me, i said i might vote ukip!!!!!!


Alright you can vote for whoever you want fella, but back about the right of vote in another country I don't think that in that case it takes 5 years to understand the politic of the country enough to be able to vote, besides, if you are paying taxes and live in the country you got the right to vote. I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.

Peace


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

IronJohnDoe said:


> Alright you can vote for whoever you want fella, but back about the right of vote in another country I don't think that in that case it takes 5 years to understand the politic of the country enough to be able to vote, besides, if you are paying taxes and live in the country you got the right to vote. I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.
> 
> Peace


Indeed


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## raisins (Mar 28, 2013)

Smitch said:


> Most UKIP voters only vote UKIP for their immigration stance, they will have no clue about any or the parties other policies.
> 
> But this is what UKIP want.


Not sure that's true.

In any party and any party system, there'll be a range of people from dim to first class idiot.

But not majoritively.

I intend to vote UKIP for the following manifesto pledges:

Scrapping of degree fees for STEM subjects. (Doesn't affect me directly but is a good move for the country and the IT sector, in particular).

Scrapping of tax on the minimum wage. (Doesn't affect me directly but I do empathise with people who earn little and still give up a chunk to taxation, while other routes exist which do not involve working and do give access to a post-tax equivalent ceiling of roughly £25k/year in benefits. Most people want to work, and feel they're worth something).

Economic deficit reduction plans in line with the main parties.

Dissolution/removal of punitive EU restrictions on the UK economy.

Limitation of right to relocate to the UK for unskilled workers. Australia's points system is a glowing example of how filtering workforce personnel works well. Of course, if anyone thinks they have a right to relocate anywhere under any conditions just because we're all human, then this appears unfair. Otherwise.... it will, with great probability, reduce the burden on welfare payments, the NHS, and tax evasion.

Scrapping hospital car parking charges - one of the most ridiculous taxes of all time.

Plus many more....

"Immigration" in its rawest form and "they're taking all our jobs, my dad told me so" doesn't play a part in my thinking.


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## haza1234 (Jan 8, 2012)

Carbon-12 said:


> Long story short, I ended up reading a post on UKIP's Facebook page, and saw a comment post made by a certain individual that absolutely enraged me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think your just as dumb for for assuming this. I'm educated, I have a good job. I have friends of a different race, Lots! But I'm voting UKIP. I'm voting because I agree with what they say not because I'm racist


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

haza1234 said:


> I think your just as dumb for for assuming this. I'm educated, I have a good job. I have friends of a different race, Lots! But I'm voting UKIP. I'm voting because I agree with what they say not because I'm racist


That is quite a strong statement from someone who is supposedly educated, yet does not know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'...


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## haza1234 (Jan 8, 2012)

Carbon-12 said:


> That is quite a strong statement from someone who is supposedly educated, yet does not know the difference between 'your' and 'you're'...


It's a forum not an English test.

Your - A possessive adjective

You're - Contraction of you are

I even write 'Ur' on texts. Who cares?


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