# Which is best for shoulders?



## cameronking64 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Just asking for advice. Which is best for building size and strength over all in shoulders? I know that it is shoulder press but should it be in front or behind the neck? or does it matter. *

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Has anyone got anything from doing Arnold Press?*

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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Id definetly say never behind the neck , bad form, would lead to an injury. Same with the lat pull down machine always in front never behind the head.


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## bigtoe900 (Jul 26, 2012)

Do front, also front, side and bent over lateral raises. Dumbell military press.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

like above, very easy to injure your neck putting the barbell behind your head, done it a few times


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Make sure you warm those rotor cuffs up or you'll be in pain and won't be able to lift for a while


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

I like to press behind the neck, I never push it to the max tho. Plenty of other good shoulder exercises, bent over row, upright row, front/side/rear raises.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

DB OHPs are best for delts. Heavy as you can with decent form.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Mine seem to respond best to seated db press. Full range of motion down until you touch your shoulders then arc back up until the dbs meet but don't lock out your arms, they should still be slightly bent at the top of the movement.


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## Irishtoonfan (Feb 14, 2013)

phoenix1980 said:


> Id definetly say never behind the neck , bad form, would lead to an injury. Same with the lat pull down machine always in front never behind the head.





barsnack said:


> like above, very easy to injure your neck putting the barbell behind your head, done it a few times


Bradford press (bring from the front then behind the back and back for one set) is a very effective exercise. Yes it can cause injury but if kept to a light weight and proper form is a very good exercise which hits parts of the shoulder that normally are neglected. Should only be used for volume like light and large amount of reps. It has actualli helped me stabilise my shoulder and cuff after injury.


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## cameronking64 (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks guys! Really grateful for the advice. Has anyone got results with Arnold Press?


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## Lazyballs (Apr 22, 2012)

Bb or db Military press front and back bb up rite rows . Db single arm up rite rows really hits them . Front side raises

Behind the nack pull ups


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Single arm DB upright row and Arnold presses a with some rear flues thrown in too


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## wezo (Jun 12, 2009)

Behind the neck press

Seated db press

Upright rows superset with bb front raisers

Lat raisers

Machine rear deltas

That's my shoulder wk make sure you warm up 1 st do 2 working sets for each exercise max weight you can handle reps on isolation a bit more than compound movement ..


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

standing mill press.

behind neck press.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

dumbell press and lots of higher rep medial and rear delt work


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

behind the neck press isnt for the stupid. otherwise you shouldnt hurt yourself

best to just mix it up press wise. BB, DB, behind neck smith press


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Common or garden Bench Press will build the most shoulder mass...


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

I do behind neck press military and front press, will this [email protected]@k my shoulders up if i press behind neck then?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Seated DB press imo, but they have to be done with full range of motion, to many ego lifters just working their triceps


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## jonesboy (Apr 7, 2013)

Db press for me and don't lock out at the top to keep the pressure on them delts. Also don't neglect your rear delts as I see so many in the gym with good shoulder development but hardly any rear delts, best of luck.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

In terms of all out mass then bench press if you must use a bar or the "Upper body squat" the parallel bar dips are the real mass gainers


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## Hayesy (Aug 15, 2011)

I do behind the neck press on the smith every so often, nevet lower it past my ears, never had an injuary at all but thats not to say it cant happen.

I do like the movment tho, goin against the grain ha


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## Bedhead (Aug 11, 2012)

cameronking64 said:


> Has anyone got results with Arnold Press?


Arnold Press works for me. I've had good gains from the AP, concentrate on a full range of motion, and 3 secs on the positive phase of the movement makes the most of that twist.

I tend to mix it up with seated DB press or on the Smith machine as well


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Bedhead said:


> Arnold Press works for me. I've had good gains from the AP, concentrate on a full range of motion, and 3 secs on the positive phase of the movement makes the most of that twist.
> 
> I tend to mix it up with seated DB press or on the Smith machine as well


You do know the deltoids have very little involvement in twisting the arm don't you?


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## Aggression (Apr 13, 2009)

My delts have really come on once i started getting out of my comfort zone. Was building up my seated barbell military press (to the front), but stalled, so moved to db's, added good weight through 10reps, stalled, back to bb and increased again. Then started doing db first and barbell last, then barbell 1st, db last. Then laterals 1st etc etc. Just knowing when to add weight and go heavy and when to back off and pre exhaust. For laterals would do slow controlled for a few sets, 5 sets of 10-12 reps with a moderate weight but only 30secs rest, drop sets, pre-exhaust with cables, lateral/upright row super sets and they came up pretty good. For rear delts i never really felt bent over rear delt flyes (too much trap/middle back and no control). So i looked in the mirror, bent forward slightly (45*) and without any weight i would feel the point where i could isolate & contract just my rear delt. I found a sweet spot and would just go very light and contract and squeeze just the rear delt, then slowly and progressively add weight 1kg at a time. My rear delts in 3mnths have seriously popped out. Sometimes i pre-exhaust on the rear delt pec-dec, then go to db's.


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## Bedhead (Aug 11, 2012)

MattGriff said:


> You do know the deltoids have very little involvement in twisting the arm don't you?


I thought that the rotation was what makes it such a good Deltoid movement? What does the AP press give that DB shoulder press doesn't then?


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## Foxy13 (Apr 10, 2013)

Agree with the guys about seated db press, really is a great exercise. Another one I've found working for me is the db lateral raise. I do it slightly differently however. With one arm at full reach I will hold onto a bar and hand at a 45 degree angle from it, with my feet in tight to the bar, then with the other arm, do my raises. Just stops me from swinging/using any momentum and I've seen a lot of progression doing them


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## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

handstand pushups :thumb:


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Standing Military press

Upright rows

Front raises superset with Side raisies


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## B4PJS (Mar 28, 2013)

Mingster said:


> Common or garden Bench Press will build the most shoulder mass...


It is also the best way to imbalance your shoulders and give the rotator cuff an injury. Always do OHP in some form as well to correct this imbalance.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

B4PJS said:


> It is also the best way to imbalance your shoulders and give the rotator cuff an injury. Always do OHP in some form as well to correct this imbalance.


Really?

The OP asked what was best for size and strength for shoulders. And you will always build more shoulder mass and strength through the bench press. If you were only to do the bench press for many years an imbalance would certainly occur. You would, however, have to be very silly indeed to do this so I resisted the urge to state the obvious...


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## B4PJS (Mar 28, 2013)

Mingster said:


> Really?
> 
> The OP asked what was best for size and strength for shoulders. And you will always build more shoulder mass and strength through the bench press. If you were only to do the bench press for many years an imbalance would certainly occur. You would, however, have to be very silly indeed to do this so I resisted the urge to state the obvious...


Sometimes I just feel the obvious needs stating :beer:


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

TBF it takes a fair bit of muscle mass to create an imbalance that may result in injury. It's not something that would appear overnight.


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## B4PJS (Mar 28, 2013)

I know, but better to be safe than sorry. Prevention is better than a cure and all that


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Bedhead said:


> I thought that the rotation was what makes it such a good Deltoid movement? What does the AP press give that DB shoulder press doesn't then?


Nope, it was just a movement Arnold enjoyed so many copied. Notice in the vast majority of training vids the standard DB press is used by high level BB's.

The Arnold press would incorporate more rotator cuff however.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

B4PJS said:


> It is also the best way to imbalance your shoulders and give the rotator cuff an injury. Always do OHP in some form as well to correct this imbalance.


The imbalance comes from over developed front deltoids and pectoral tightness. Given bodybuilders generally do not press like Olympic lifters and strongmen i.e head through arm drawn back how do you hypothesize that overhead pressing would correct this imbalance as the key areas to work are rear delts, rhombodius and tres major and minor along with supra and infraspinatus.



Mingster said:


> Really?
> 
> The OP asked what was best for size and strength for shoulders. And you will always build more shoulder mass and strength through the bench press. If you were only to do the bench press for many years an imbalance would certainly occur. You would, however, have to be very silly indeed to do this so I resisted the urge to state the obvious...


I am inclined to agree, the bench (or varient of) does develop phenomenal levels off mass when trained correctly.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I've started doing partial reps on the OHP (bottom part of the movement) and it sets my shoulders on fire! Never had the mind-muscle connection before. Thoughts?


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

rectus said:


> I've started doing partial reps on the OHP (bottom part of the movement) and it sets my shoulders on fire! Never had the mind-muscle connection before. Thoughts?


Yeah, if your mind wasn't connected to your muscle it wouldn't move.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

where does clean n press and push press rank among shoulder mass builders?

and if i want to develop the explosive initial push from the bottom end of a benchpress can things like push presses help?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

MattGriff said:


> Yeah, if your mind wasn't connected to your muscle it wouldn't move.


haha that's not what I wanted opinions on... I meant what are your thoughts on partial reps for shoulders? I do normal OHP as my main exercise before performing partials.


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