# Shorter rest times better for gains?



## Guest (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm training for size as opposed to strength and it was always my belief that for compound exercises like pull ups, bench press and squats that a rest period from anywhere between 2 and 5 minutes (to recharge but not pamper your muscles) was best for gains, but I've found loads of articles like this: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek11.htm all over the net. The thing is, I remember trying this out months ago, and on the bench press, rather than doing a good solid 7 reps each time, with a poxy 90-120 second break, my bench reps went from 7 to 5, 5 and then a measley 4 on the last set - imagine what squats would be like with a 2 minute break?

So what's everyone's take on this? Maybe I should lower the starting weight and do this, e.g. 4 sets of 55-60KG as opposed to 65KG, or lower the weight as I progress to do the same amount of reps, e.g. 65, then 62.5, then 57.5 then 55... or just plough on at 65KG with reps getting lower?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i have as much rest as i need in between sets-always keep the reps the same-and always add weight to the bar-however small the amount-i must buy some fractional plates soon


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2006)

yep i always rest anothe to do my set reps


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## Andy1981iron (Dec 16, 2004)

Everyone is different. Some people need a minute, some 2.

I need quite long rest periods, usually 3 minutes of so.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2006)

i must be good then only need a good 40 seconds lol all ways been a fast person recovering


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

i go up to 10 minutes when working in the 2 - 3 rep range, like deadlifts

just wait as long as you need, as i've said many times if your training CV in the weights room you've got your priorities in the wrong place

Nick


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2006)

It has been said the 8-12 rep range for mass need between 45-90 seconds

6-8 usually 2-3 mins

and below that like 3 reps is about 5 mins

This is the time for the muscle to refuel itself


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## razg (Nov 23, 2004)

Solid advice from nick/J - but if you're going for longer rests, make sure you don't let muscles get cold - blood in the muscle is the best measure against injury.

And if you're going for fat burning, keep the rests low, as that'll raise your BMR significantly.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

zx9rjas. said:


> It has been said the 8-12 rep range for mass need between 45-90 seconds
> 
> 6-8 usually 2-3 mins
> 
> ...


The thing is, this article claims that allowing it to refuel is BAD for the muscles in terms of size gains.


> ...one of the key factors in how much muscles grow is the amount of anabolic hormones your body produces after weight training (McCall et al, 1999). Short rest periods of between 1 and 2 minutes cause a greater release of these hormones than longer rest periods (Kraemer et al, 1991; Kraemer et al, 1990).
> 
> Short rest periods also cause other muscle-building bonuses like increased lactate production and blood flow to the targeted muscles (Kraemer, 1997; Kraemer et al, 1987). Don't laugh about the blood flow bit. I know it sounds like old-school "pump" talk. But it's been shown that the increased blood flow to your muscles helps the protein get there quicker (Biolo et al, 1995).
> 
> Muscle fatigue, caused by lactate production, has also been implicated in short-term strength gains and significant hypertrophy (Rooney et al, 1994).


I'm really lost now, are you saying we should allow them to refuel?

Also, if we shouldn't and therefore put it under extra strain, if it hasn't fully refuelled, isn't it a given that it obviously won't be able to put out as many reps at the same weight? Therefore should I start off with high reps like 12 and allow them to go down a bit whilst only resting for a max of 2 minutes?


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

...lemme see if i can help...

first, stop reading every article and believing that it is right...im not saying dont do research, but i am saying that many of those articles are written by "ghost writters" and not bodybuilders...and what works for one person may not work for you so...

second, try some different stuff out...try going with heavier weights and lower reps for 2 months, try the opposite for two months, try having longer rest in between sets for two or three weeks, try having shorter rest for a little bit...

dont be afraid to experiment a little to find what it is your body needs to grow and recover, but don't pin it all on any one source...unfortunately there is no one method that will work for everyone...


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

Jay123 said:


> ...lemme see if i can help...
> 
> first, stop reading every article and believing that it is right...im not saying dont do research, but i am saying that many of those articles are written by "ghost writters" and not bodybuilders...and what works for one person may not work for you so...
> 
> ...


Thanks, but just about every source I look at seay the same thing. I thought that it was a give that 5x5 is the best for strength training and somewhere in the region of 8-12 reps is good for hyperstrophy - but I'm not sure on the number of sets.

Plus, trying something out for a couple of months could be 2 months wasted. If it's the ONLY way to find out then so be it, but if a bit of research and asking some questions can better point me in the right direction then surely that's the best thing to do?


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

I hope you didnt take me as sarcastic...I do agree with you that research beats trial & error...all i was tryin to say is that there is always someone who has a different idea and it isnt always what works...from personal experience though...i used to do 4 sets for every exercise and 4-5 exercises per bodypart reps at 10, 10, 5, 2...i switched to 6-8 reps during work (heavy) sets and saw a big improvement in my goals (same as yours, size vs. strength), so i would say that that is the goal i need to hit with about 1-2 min rest between sets (less rest for lighter sets, a little longer if needed after heavy sets)...


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

Cheers for that... so you're saying that

a) dropping a couple of reps and slightly increasing the weight worked better, and that

B) resting less and doing less reps as a result rather than fully recharging to do the while lot is DEFINATELY the way to go?


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

groovyguy said:


> Cheers for that... so you're saying that
> 
> a) dropping a couple of reps and slightly increasing the weight worked better, and that
> 
> B) resting less and doing less reps as a result rather than fully recharging to do the while lot is DEFINATELY the way to go?


No he is saying thats what worked for him. It might not work for you. Everyone is different there isn't one answer. At the moment I am trying TUT but it might not work for me who knows. Just try out different methods


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

\ said:


> groovyguy said:
> 
> 
> > Cheers for that... so you're saying that
> ...


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

if your training naturally imo 3work sets are enuff(except 5x5)


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

It depends on you and how your body responds. I do a mixture of between 2 and 5 sets for different exercises. I also don't do the same exercises with the same sets week in week out.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2006)

groovyguy said:


> Cheers for that... so you're saying that
> 
> a) dropping a couple of reps and slightly increasing the weight worked better, and that
> 
> B) resting less and doing less reps as a result rather than fully recharging to do the while lot is DEFINATELY the way to go?


....no...

a) i added a couple reps and had to initially drop the weight...ex: instead of doing straight bar curls @ 145-150 pounds for two reps, to do 6-8 reps for two sets, I had to drop the weight to 135pounds...

b)sometimes i have to rest more because i am still going heavy (for me :lol: ) for more reps (6-8 vs. 2)...

and yes, this worked for me, but i cant promise it will work for you...but it may...only way to know is try...as far as the rest issue, just rest until you feel ready to go again, don't worry about the clock...

make sense?


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2006)

Jay123 said:


> groovyguy said:
> 
> 
> > Cheers for that... so you're saying that
> ...


I see, thanks mate that does make sense now you explain it like that. I'll give 3 x 10-12 with shorter rests a shot, with lower weights, same reps and try lower reps at the same reps and see where it takes me!


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## Mr Nice (Jan 7, 2006)

I rest 2 min larger body parts 1 min smaller parts got good results doing that. I do 3 work sets to failure.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2006)

I think this is getting more complicated than needed. Let the muscle get pumped. When it is fully pumped and fatigued by failure. stop.

Just find out what gets you bigger quicker and do that. lol

J


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

zx9rjas. said:


> I think this is getting more complicated than needed. Let the muscle get pumped. When it is fully pumped and fatigued by failure. stop.
> 
> Just find out what gets you bigger quicker and do that. lol
> 
> J


Couldn't agree any more


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2006)

Mr Nice said:


> I rest 2 min larger body parts 1 min smaller parts got good results doing that. I do 3 work sets to failure.


Nice, simple, straightfoward - thanks.


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2006)

zx9rjas. said:


> I think this is getting more complicated than needed. Let the muscle get pumped. When it is fully pumped and fatigued by failure. stop.
> 
> Just find out what gets you bigger quicker and do that. lol
> 
> J


IMO that's what makes the differnce betwen progress and amazing progress. All of these articles, discussion, experments and papers exist for a reason. Why not aim for excellence armed with the best knowledge?


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

After reading the other thread I understand you have a difficulty grasping concepts and assimilating information but what J was trying to say was the same thing won't work for everyone. ' just FIND OUT what gets YOU bigger'

J is arming himself with the best knowledge. He has tried various differnt methods and now does what has worked best for him through trial and error. As I'm sure has Mr. Nice as you will notice he says what he does and has worked for him. Unfortunately and I have siad this in every thread I have posted to you this doesnt mean it will work for you. Give it a try though. good luck.


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## Mr Nice (Jan 7, 2006)

You need to rest at least 2 mins for your ATP levels recharge to do justice in your next set.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2006)

Mr Nice said:


> You need to rest at least 2 mins for your ATP levels recharge to do justice in your next set.


Doesn't he article say that where hypertrophy for size is concened, that not being recharged is the important factor?


> Bodybuilders take advantage of shorter rest periods to make their muscles BIGGER. How? Well, one of the key factors in how much muscles grow is the amount of anabolic hormones your body produces after weight training (McCall et al, 1999). Short rest periods of between 1 and 2 minutes cause a greater release of these hormones than longer rest periods (Kraemer et al, 1991; Kraemer et al, 1990).


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Thats the point all the studies contradict so just try out different methods its not like one works and every other method sends you backwards


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2006)

young gun said:


> Thats the point all the studies contradict so just try out different methods its not like one works and every other method sends you backwards


Yes, here's another one that says the opposite: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/phano62.htm . So the definitive answer to my question is... that there is no definitive answer? Great... 

Well, at least I know that much, thanks. 

I'll wait until my cut's over before I go experimenting though...


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## Andy1981iron (Dec 16, 2004)

You make bodybuilding/losing weight seem so difficult groovyguy....keep it simple man! lol


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

There is never definite answers to questions. The smarter you get the more options open up. Its part of genetics that we are all different not everything works for everyone.

The point is longer/shorter rest times high or low GI all have benefits. Depending on who writes the article and why they are gona advocate specific points to the detriemnt of others. YOU HAVE TO DECIDE YOURSELF whicg is more important to you. Thats the last time I'm gona write that to you the last time. Sorry I don't mean to be a dick but come on.


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