# Performance Enhancing Drugs ...when cutting..



## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Im just curious as to when or not to start taking something to help me loose BF..?

As you know I've been loosing fat for a long time now ...

it has been playing on my mind.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

What you thinking of taking?


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

The question is...

Are u still losing fat? Are there any other tweaks u can make to your diet and training naturally first?

Peds and fat burners aren't gonna work unless everything is right anyway x


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

It is a decision you need to make and be comfortable with.

If you feel you want a boost on top of all the hardwork you have put in the yes peds are great especially if you have hit a plateau.

Relook at your diet and then consider adding peds.

Ones to look at are Clen, T3, ECA, DNP

There are also many natural/legal supplements which you can use as well although nowhere as near effective they are imo a great addition.

So green tea capsules, L-Cartanine, good quality fish oils etc.

Good luck with your continuing journey with weight loss!


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

RXQueenie said:


> The question is...
> 
> Are u still losing fat? Are there any other tweaks u can make to your diet and training naturally first?
> 
> *Peds and fat burners aren't gonna work unless everything is right anyway* x


I dunno, with DNP and a sh1t diet you can still drop fat, i've done it.

Not saying it's the right thing to do but loads of people look half decent using drugs as a replacement for poor diet and training.


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

Smitch said:


> I dunno, with DNP and a sh1t diet you can still drop fat, i've done it.
> 
> Not saying it's the right thing to do but loads of people look half decent using drugs as a replacement for poor diet and training.


Do u think u could have looked better if diet was spot on?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

DNP should be the absolute last resort .

var and novaldex

clen + t3

ECA

those are what i would suggest along side diet and training being spot on and tbh hiring a coach would be top of that list .


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

RXQueenie said:


> The question is...
> 
> Are u still losing fat? Are there any other tweaks u can make to your diet and training naturally first?
> 
> Peds and fat burners aren't gonna work unless everything is right anyway x


Yes.. it seems to stall for two weeks then suddenly , ive lost an inch or two . Ive recently lowered my cals by 100 so I'm now eating 1600.

Around

160g protein 60g carbs 80g fat


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

YummyMummy said:


> Yes.. it seems to stall for two weeks then suddenly , ive lost an inch or two . Ive recently lowered my cals by 100 so I'm now eating 1600.


And u know fat loss isn't linear. Some weeks it may even go up!

I dunno. People said to me to lose more bf% before trying anything like that but it really is down to the individual.

If u feel ready then do your research and go for it!


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

ewen said:


> DNP should be the absolute last resort .
> 
> var and novaldex
> 
> ...


why do you think its a last resort? Personally i think its safer than clen. but obviously unknown affects on womens reproduction? that would be my only concern


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

RXQueenie said:


> Do u think u could have looked better if diet was spot on?


Of course, that's not the question though is it. 

If diet and training was spot on you wouldn't need fat burners, they just help speed the process along.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

RXQueenie said:


> And u know fat loss isn't linear. Some weeks it may even go up!
> 
> I dunno. People said to me to lose more bf% before trying anything like that but it really is down to the individual.
> 
> If u feel ready then do your research and go for it!


personally i only use dnp for instance for like when im as lean as i can get then add dnp lol

but you see a lot of high BF people on here using it to speed the process up from the start. not what i would personally recommend.


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

Smitch said:


> Of course, that's not the question though is it.
> 
> If diet and training was spot on you wouldn't need fat burners, they just help speed the process along.


But that's why I said to make it spot on  its in her best interests


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

Sambuca said:


> personally i only use dnp for instance for like when im as lean as i can get then add dnp lol
> 
> but you see a lot of high BF people on here using it to speed the process up from the start. not what i would personally recommend.


I honestly have not tried dnp nor felt the need to so I really can't comment on it.

@MunchieBites has though. Perhaps her input would be good here.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Im interested learning more about clen and T3


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

DNP is a pretty horrible experience, even low dose.

I ran it at 125mg a day and even though it does work i would describe it as uncomfortable.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Sambuca said:


> why do you think its a last resort? Personally i think its safer than clen. but obviously unknown affects on womens reproduction? that would be my only concern


because the side effects are far worse than clen :lol:


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

YummyMummy said:


> Im interested learning more about clen and T3


Ok my opinion would be clen first.

T3 messes with thyroid and u have to be very careful with food for a few weeks after coming off - maybe I'm just way too cautious. I've had my thyroid tested and its within the normal range but I still wouldn't try T3.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

YummyMummy said:


> Im interested learning more about clen and T3


my gf ran it t3 50mcg ED for 6 weeks with clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and 10mg Anavar everyday to keep muscle loss to a minimum.

If you have good quality Clen they normally come in 20 or 40mcg tabs. start of small and just add to the dose depending on side so if you dont shake the next day add more,

when you get the shakes keep dose the same and when the shakes subside up the dose again.

when you come off t3 a good dosing of sea kelp everyday is good. wont take long for thyroid to kick back in.

not suggesting you do that btw just what my other half did and got excellent results from.

just to simplfy it for me clen goes like this

start

40mcg

3 days later

80mcg

3 days later

120mcg then i stay around this amount for the 2 weeks.

then add ECA in the 2 week gap.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

ewen said:


> because the side effects are far worse than clen :lol:


haha i find clen worse personally. and i reckon its easier to end up having a heart attack on it then cook yourself on dnp unless u want a darwin award. im not a big fan of stims if i am honest though.


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

RXQueenie said:


> Ok my opinion would be clen first.
> 
> T3 messes with thyroid and u have to be very careful with food for a few weeks after coming off - maybe I'm just way too cautious. I've had my thyroid tested and its within the normal range but I still wouldn't try T3.


Thanks claire... don't want to mess about with thyroid


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> my gf ran it t3 50mcg ED for 6 weeks with clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and 10mg Anavar everyday to keep muscle loss to a minimum.
> 
> If you have good quality Clen they normally come in 20 or 40mcg tabs. start of small and just add to the dose depending on side so if you dont shake the next day add more,
> 
> ...


Thanks sam

I will do some research into them and then decided :thumbup:


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

YummyMummy said:


> Thanks sam
> 
> I will do some research into them and then decided :thumbup:


claire is right it stops your thyroid full stop but in my experience it is not as bad as it sounds especially being careful with diet for a week or two after and supplement kelp at a good daily dose. just my opinion.

clen by itself is great though so lots of option for you.


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## MunchieBites (Jan 14, 2013)

YummyMummy said:



> Im interested learning more about clen and T3


Clean is very heavy on your heart. Want my advice? Try a low dose 2 week dnp cycle with 25mcg t3.

Clean and ECA have the worse side effects than 125mg DNP IMO.

PM me if you want any more info I've done a few cycles


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## MunchieBites (Jan 14, 2013)

ewen said:


> because the side effects are far worse than clen :lol:


Not on 125mg they arent


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

MunchieBites said:


> Not on 125mg they arent


i still dont condone using DNP .


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

@marknorthumbria is the best guy to speak to on this imo


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Quick skip through and my thoughts

L-carnatine is no good unless injectable

T3 damage is over egged, do 6 weeks at a dose that is comfortable, use kelp afterwards and your thyroid will be sweet in a week or two..

Clen is fine, I like to split it morning pre bed and ramp up each dose 20mcg at a time

DNP I also dont condone


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

I read a recent study on L-carnatine and it worked when ingested to help prevent the breakdown of muscle associated with low cal diets.

ephedrine I really like, caffeine two. clen is gud with short term 2-3 days thebn switching to eca or ephedrine for 2-3 days.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

griffo13 said:


> I read a recent study on L-carnatine and it worked when ingested to help prevent the breakdown of muscle associated with low cal diets.
> 
> ephedrine I really like, caffeine two. clen is gud with short term 2-3 days thebn switching to eca or ephedrine for 2-3 days.


Bioavailability of l-carnatine is terrible.doesn't do much orally.

The injectable version top BBers make use of


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Peptides isn't mentioned but probably the safest from the lot


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## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

do you inject in sub or intraM.....


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