# after being on cycle 1.5 years almost its time to add hgh! but how?



## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Been on test tren for about 14months with about 4 months inbetween there cruising on test 1ml a week too. I feel like I need to add gh to almost create new muscle cells in my body to now grow as I feel like I have expanded my current cells almost to there natural potential already if that makes sense lol! It's also like my gear use for gains has platued for my current body size (muscle cells) aalso can't seem to tip over 180/190kg bench press now for a year. Hoping hgh by adding some new cells for me to grow will help take me to the next level.

Note: insulin I'm still resistant to use with gh, want to just use gh alone first.

- Igf1 and other peptides I have little knowledge of other that they pulse and intensify natural gh.

So what I'm after really is a bit of help as to what will help me get to the next level within reason. As in cost lol! Can't discuss prices so it's difficult. Basically don't want to spend over £ 200 for peps a month. so in this case let's "assume " 200iu of gh cost £200.

What would be the best way to run gh now?

I seem to of concluded for mass gains it would be between 8iu or 16 iu 3x a week say Mon, Tue, Wed.

Assume if I went for 16iu 3 x week that way it will only be gh I could afford for the month, however if I went 8iu 3x a week I could afford other peeps too like ghrp ghrh. What would be more optimal?

Also open to other answers like hgh only at 4iu 5x a week etc

AAS wise it will be test at 500mg and deca at 750mg running throughout.


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

You must be a wealthy dude to be on cycle for 14 months and now wanna add more. Wouldn't mind being a pound behind you pal hahahahahaha! Fair play tho


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

I think you need to talk to @Pscarb he is the expert on peps and hgh.


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

16iu of non pharma GH in one shot :blink: holy water retention Batman! haha


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## Geo (Apr 3, 2007)

4/5iu Mon/Wed/Fri i know Paul said. ED Paul said you get bleeding so to speak with the GH. so the M/W/F protocol im sure he'll say, maybe wrong though


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

If cost is an issue, I'd alternate peps and gh EOD split 4-10iu (depending on pharma or generics) hgh over two shots, next day sat dose peps thrice and repeat.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Okay @Pscarb. What do u recommend? hgh 8iu 3x week with a aas course run along side for 4-6months ?

Question is really what will the hgh bring to the table as an addition to the aas cycle?


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Conscript said:


> If cost is an issue, I'd alternate peps and gh EOD split 4-10iu (depending on pharma or generics) hgh over two shots, next day sat dose peps thrice and repeat.


Are peps mostly used then to boost gh levels inplace of extra hgh injection if cost is an issue then?


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## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

Question for you mate - having been on for a long time without cruising, would you say the longer cycles with mod doses are more benefitial than shorter ones with high doses?

What have you gained in terms of size and strength over this period?


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> Are peps mostly used then to boost gh levels inplace of extra hgh injection if cost is an issue then?


Peps will stimulate your own natty gh release (better than synthetic hgh) which can be done several times per day and yield in real terms a nice amount of GH (up to about 6iu total at most iirc) but you have to stagger your injections and food intake as to not blunt the release for this to be optimal. which can be a pain if you're out working etc.

Now with synthetic hgh you can surpass even the most optimal peptide course in a single dose at any time which may have certain benefits in terms of muscle growth, and whilst your food intake won't affect it's MOA detrimentally (insulin/igf activity may actually help) giving it a certain level of convenience, it comes at a much greater financial cost, especially when using proper pharma grade.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

need2bodybuild said:


> Question for you mate - having been on for a long time without cruising, would you say the longer cycles with mod doses are more benefitial than shorter ones with high doses?
> 
> What have you gained in terms of size and strength over this period?


I did cruise mate for probably 4 months in total for the 1.5 years, looking back at pics I'm the best shape ever now, however I never notice it myself as the changes haven't been dramatic like it would be If I was off cycle for 3 months then went on for 3 months, so it's hard noticing it yourself, strength has crept up nicely but slowly for sure, and there hasn't been no drastic falling in strength like there would be coming off more of a 10% fall.also bloods taken a few week ago and everything is pretty much borderline except Hdl cholestrol which is too low! But then also is my ldl


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## shadow4509 (Jan 27, 2010)

Viking_01 said:


> Be very careful if you go the hgh route, alot of fakes around esp fake hyges atm so id steer clear of those entirely.


There will always be fake GH, it's high demand product with a big price tag. Counterfeits don't just apply to hyge


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

BetterThanYou said:


> 16iu of non pharma GH in one shot :blink: holy water retention Batman! haha


Why does non pharma grade cause more oedema than pharma? Is this a fact?

( Not challenging - wanting to learn )


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

SK50 said:


> Why does non pharma grade cause more oedema than pharma? Is this a fact?
> 
> ( Not challenging - wanting to learn )


its mostly diet dependent but also GH should be a 191 amino acid single chain polypeptide hormone... if it isn't, isn't of good quality or has been incorrectly stored, there is a chance your body wont recognise it. In which case it will react causing an immune system response to the "foreign body" within you... that immune system response being inflammation eg water retention.


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## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

Rav212 said:


> Been on test tren for about 14months with about 4 months inbetween there cruising on test 1ml a week too. I feel like I need to add gh to almost create new muscle cells in my body to now grow as I feel like I have expanded my current cells almost to there natural potential already if that makes sense lol! It's also like my gear use for gains has platued for my current body size (muscle cells) aalso can't seem to tip over 180/190kg bench press now for a year. Hoping hgh by adding some new cells for me to grow will help take me to the next level.
> 
> Note: insulin I'm still resistant to use with gh, want to just use gh alone first.
> 
> ...


What doses test and tren were you running mate? Also for how long were you on for, and then cruising for, before going back on?


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

BetterThanYou said:


> its mostly diet dependent but also GH should be a 191 amino acid single chain polypeptide hormone... if it isn't, isn't of good quality or has been incorrectly stored, there is a chance your body wont recognise it. In which case it will react causing an immune system response to the "foreign body" within you... that immune system response being inflammation eg water retention.


OK, but non-fake Hyge (which presumably is "non pharma") is 191aa (22kda) - how will this differ to , say, a genuine phizer pen in terms of water retention?

I was of the understanding that HGH itelf (endogenous or exogenous) simulates the RAAS and therefore why would it matter pharma vs, say, hygetropin?

Thanks


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## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

Rav212 said:


> I did cruise mate for probably 4 months in total for the 1.5 years, looking back at pics I'm the best shape ever now, however I never notice it myself as the changes haven't been dramatic like it would be If I was off cycle for 3 months then went on for 3 months, so it's hard noticing it yourself, strength has crept up nicely but slowly for sure, and there hasn't been no drastic falling in strength like there would be coming off more of a 10% fall.also bloods taken a few week ago and everything is pretty much borderline except Hdl cholestrol which is too low! But then also is my ldl


Ok mate thanks. I just thought id ask as im still unsure which are best, short or long cycles. I dont see why you wouldnt keep progressing if you keep swapping compounds/increasing dosages every say, 6-8 weeks...just thinking out loud lol


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

DutchTony said:


> What doses test and tren were you running mate? Also for how long were you on for, and then cruising for, before going back on?


I was on Rohm tri test 400 1.5 ml a week and tren e 200 on 2-3ml a week for a good chunk then cruise was 3-4 months on unigen and alpha sus250 a week now I've been on only 2 amps of parabolin a week and 1 ml of AP sus along with androxine on Mon and Thursday workout days, also added winny in last month, this all finished mid sept where I will either go straight onto sus deca or cruise for a little then add deca. Along with ofcourse now hgh or peps.

So far it's looking like just 8iu mon Wed fri of gh.

Peps seem interesting just sounds like alot of pinning plus my job is flying and on the road alot so not valid really.

Thinking either 8iu every Mon wed fri morning

Or 8iu morning then another 8iu pwo.

What's the exact half life of hgh seems to conflicting!?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Geo said:


> 4/5iu Mon/Wed/Fri i know Paul said. ED Paul said you get bleeding so to speak with the GH. so the M/W/F protocol im sure he'll say, maybe wrong though


the bleed occurs if you use high amounts in one shot like a lot of guys do say like 8-10iu ED in one shot, this gives a constant drip of GH over many hours not giving your body a break, the best way to use that amount is to use smaller 2-4iu of GH pulsed through the day (many do not do this due to not being bothered)



Rav212 said:


> Okay @Pscarb. What do u recommend? hgh 8iu 3x week with a aas course run along side for 4-6months ?
> 
> Question is really what will the hgh bring to the table as an addition to the aas cycle?


i have not clue what GH would bring to the table for you, is your diet, training and recovery on point? if it is then you will get some muscle growth and some fat loss, neither will be dramatic but GH brings a look to a physique....



Rav212 said:


> Are peps mostly used then to boost gh levels inplace of extra hgh injection if cost is an issue then?


No peptides don't boost GH they release it it, read my article on my website (in my sig) so you know what your doing when you use them.


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## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> GH brings a look to a physique....
> 
> .


Not challenging very curious, what exactly do you mean by this? I've always had the mind thought that 4iu Monday to Friday of hyge or something would provide normal looking results


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> the bleed occurs if you use high amounts in one shot like a lot of guys do say like 8-10iu ED in one shot, this gives a constant drip of GH over many hours not giving your body a break, the best way to use that amount is to use smaller 2-4iu of GH pulsed through the day (many do not do this due to not being bothered)
> 
> i have not clue what GH would bring to the table for you, is your diet, training and recovery on point? if it is then you will get some muscle growth and some fat loss, neither will be dramatic but GH brings a look to a physique....
> 
> No peptides don't boost GH they release it it, read my article on my website (in my sig) so you know what your doing when you use them.


Okay cheers mate, yes everything is on point! Just feel the need to have more cells in my body to grow to the next level now current ones are feeling fully grown so to say lol!

Over how many hours does the gh drip for if shot at 8iu at once roughly? ... And If to do it throughout the day what would be your protocol 2/3/4 times in the day evenly split up? And if only doing Mon Wed fri would that protocol of splitting up through the day still be beneficial or is that protocol for 5day to ed use?


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Mweisel said:


> Not challenging very curious, what exactly do you mean by this? I've always had the mind thought that 4iu Monday to Friday of hyge or something would provide normal looking results


Exactly what was quoted by a friend of mine in the gym who used gh, said it changed is physique differently to aas almost like it changed his genetic structure to bodybuilding


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## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Rav212 said:


> Exactly what was quoted by a friend of mine in the gym who used gh, said it changed is physique differently to aas almost like it changed his genetic structure to bodybuilding


I mean being that results are very slow stopping if undesired results is always a choice of course just very curious as to the difference. Doing such as keeping gut size down (size 27 waist at 61 191.6lbs) only supposed to happen at high doses I do believe. Along with most other things but I know pscarb is very knowledgeable on damn near everything lol


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mweisel said:


> Not challenging very curious, what exactly do you mean by this? I've always had the mind thought that 4iu Monday to Friday of hyge or something would provide normal looking results


GH (good genuine GH) gives a fullness to the muscle you just do not get from AAS, but this is over time with consistency......you will see results (1-2kg of lean tissue gain/1-2%drop in fat mass) in 6 weeks given you use Pharma and everything is on point, many are disappointed because they just jab GH and expect miracles.....

what do you consider as Normal looking results??


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## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> GH (good genuine GH) gives a fullness to the muscle you just do not get from AAS, but this is over time with consistency......you will see results (1-2kg of lean tissue gain/1-2%drop in fat mass) in 6 weeks given you use Pharma and everything is on point, many are disappointed because they just jab GH and expect miracles.....
> 
> what do you consider as Normal looking results??


Nothing out of the ordinary, I do understand many people aren't impressed with results because they expect far too much. I happen to have extra cash and g2g hyge black tops at a low price. Maybe some slight fat loss. Couples lbs here or there if possible. Then the usual benefits of better sleep, better sense of well being, nothing crazy


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

@Rav212 how are you feeling after being on so long?

My last course i was on Tren and Prop for 12 weeks and my little fella gave up in the end

Have you been fine in this area?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mweisel said:


> I mean being that results are very slow stopping if undesired results is always a choice of course just very curious as to the difference. Doing such as keeping gut size down (size 27 waist at 61 191.6lbs) only supposed to happen at high doses I do believe. Along with most other things but I know pscarb is very knowledgeable on damn near everything lol


increased Gut is not down to GH if it was everyone who has taken it will have Gut extension.....and they do not, gut bloat is down to many factors.....some are high levels of food, genetics, insulin, core movements......



Rav212 said:


> Okay cheers mate, yes everything is on point! Just feel the need to have more cells in my body to grow to the next level now current ones are feeling fully grown so to say lol!
> 
> Over how many hours does the gh drip for if shot at 8iu at once roughly? ... And If to do it throughout the day what would be your protocol 2/3/4 times in the day evenly split up? And if only doing Mon Wed fri would that protocol of splitting up through the day still be beneficial or is that protocol for 5day to ed use?


7.5iu of pharma GH will give a curve of apprx 12hrs.......

the way i use GH now (i use it slightly differently when dieting due to FFA's) is to do 2 shots of 3-4iu of pharma GH on a Mon/Wed/Fri it gives me results plus these are the days i train so fits in well....also the only study (sticky in this section) i have seen on trained athletes showed results in 6 weeks using 8iu of pharma (this is important) GH, in my experience this is what i would suggest to most, plus it fits well with using peptides EOD


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> increased Gut is not down to GH if it was everyone who has taken it will have Gut extension.....and they do not, gut bloat is down to many factors.....some are high levels of food, genetics, insulin, core movements......
> 
> 7.5iu of pharma GH will give a curve of apprx 12hrs.......
> 
> the way i use GH now (i use it slightly differently when dieting due to FFA's) is to do 2 shots of 3-4iu of pharma GH on a Mon/Wed/Fri it gives me results plus these are the days i train so fits in well....also the only study (sticky in this section) i have seen on trained athletes showed results in 6 weeks using 8iu of pharma (this is important) GH, in my experience this is what i would suggest to most, plus it fits well with using peptides EOD


Final question lol! As I think this what I will do, what timming are you doing your gh jabs? morning and pwo?

Also what is your current eod peptide protocol?

And would u highly recommend using peps as an addition to using the gh that way? more bang for buck etc?


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Big Kris said:



> @Rav212 how are you feeling after being on so long?
> 
> My last course i was on Tren and Prop for 12 weeks and my little fella gave up in the end
> 
> Have you been fine in this area?


Absolutely good mate! on the high end of erections if anything different lol!

I'd "assume " something wasn't up to scratch with your hormones either test being fake so it was low testosterone levels or over aromatisation and high estrogen levels due to now ai! Or progesterone levels out of place.

Note I've always kept my test jabbing fairly low 1-2ml a week max really and 0.5 adex eod


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Rav212 said:


> Absolutely good mate! on the high end of erections if anything different lol!
> 
> I'd "assume " something wasn't up to scratch with your hormones either test being fake so it was low testosterone levels or over aromatisation and high estrogen levels due to now ai! Or progesterone levels out of place.
> 
> Note I've always kept my test jabbing fairly low 1-2ml a week max really and 0.5 adex eod


I was having 1ml of Tren A and 1ml of Prop Mon - Wed - Fri

Im starting again this week so will see how i get on on this course


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Do you not feel a cruise is needed for a break? When was your last cruise?


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Mark2021 said:


> Do you not feel a cruise is needed for a break? When was your last cruise?


Ended in March, yer contemplating it still! probaly will for even atleast 4weeks


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Rav212 said:


> Final question lol! As I think this what I will do, what timming are you doing your gh jabs? morning and pwo?
> 
> Also what is your current eod peptide protocol?


i jab Pre-WO and before bed, my peptides are 3 x saturation dose IPAM/GHRH then before bed 1000mcg of IPAM and 100mcg of GHRH o none GH days (apart from sundays as i rest from all jabs.....no scientific reason just what i do)



Rav212 said:


> And would u highly recommend using peps as an addition to using the gh that way? more bang for buck etc?


i would recommend you see what you get from using just the GH for a time then add the peptides, otherwise if you add everything you will not know what is doing/giving you what.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> i jab Pre-WO and before bed, my peptides are 3 x saturation dose IPAM/GHRH then before bed 1000mcg of IPAM and 100mcg of GHRH o none GH days (apart from sundays as i rest from all jabs.....no scientific reason just what i do)
> 
> i would recommend you see what you get from using just the GH for a time then add the peptides, otherwise if you add everything you will not know what is doing/giving you what.


We'll they don't call Sunday the day or rest for nothing lol! ... Yer I will do that a step into it slowly to see what benefits me best over the years and go for the gh only first.

Many thanks


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## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

I was/am doing the m/w/f protocol but 8ius upon walking then no food for 40 mins pre cadio use.

I've read so much conflicting information with regards to pre bed shots with good points from either side so I'm not sure who to believe on that one. (See next posts for reasons)

Also post workout combined with slin is ok it's just making sure you have the time to do timings.

I've personally not tried pre workout.

When will you be willing to try slin?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

littledaz said:


> I was/am doing the m/w/f protocol but 8ius upon walking then no food for 40 mins.


there is no reason to wait to eat after injecting GH, this is a BB myth



littledaz said:


> I've read so much conflicting information with regards to pre bed shots with good points from either side so I'm not sure who to believe on that one.


the main reason many claim not to take a GH shot before bed, is because they believe by doing this it interferes with this GH release. but in reality no matter when you take synthetic GH it will interfere with your natural production.....so there is no reason at all to avoid this time.



littledaz said:


> Also post workout combined with gh is ok it's just making sure you have the time to do timings.


there is no need for timings when using GH post workout



littledaz said:


> I've personally not tried pre workout but I think it's no food for an hour prior shot, then you will train for say an hour before your post workout shake.


again this is not correct you can take the GH whilst your eating your Pre workout meal if you wish.


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## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> there is no reason to wait to eat after injecting GH, this is a BB myth
> 
> the main reason many claim not to take a GH shot before bed, is because they believe by doing this it interferes with this GH release. but in reality no matter when you take synthetic GH it will interfere with your natural production.....so there is no reason at all to avoid this time.
> 
> again this is not correct you can take the GH whilst your eating your Pre workout meal if you wish.


I'll try clear my messy post up.

My am gh is used for pre cardio so there is a 40 mins gap but I did think that there should be a gap between your gh shot and food.

I have read you use gh pre bed and others say only use pre bed if over 60 but the research I've read that even an am shot can/will interfere with your own production. Even if that's true we normally use more than a body would make so renders it pointless.

The post workout section was ment to say "when combined with slin" so apologise for that. Is this something you have tried Paul? Gh and slin post workout, if so is it the best option when combining with gh. Or run two seperate protocols?

I will admit you have educated me on the fact that you can eat around the times of gh as I thought an empty stomach and no food after was best.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

littledaz said:


> I'll try clear my messy post up.


it does make more sense now 



littledaz said:


> My am gh is used for pre cardio so there is a 40 mins gap but I did think that there should be a gap between your gh shot and food.


this is correct if using GH to release FFA's for use in slow and steady cardio then 40min is good



littledaz said:


> I have read you use gh pre bed and others say only use pre bed if over 60 but the research I've read that even an am shot can/will interfere with your own production. Even if that's true we normally use more than a body would make so renders it pointless.


exactly mate



littledaz said:


> The post workout section was ment to say "when combined with slin" so apologise for that. Is this something you have tried Paul? Gh and slin post workout, if so is it the best option when combining with gh. Or run two seperate protocols?


the protocol should not work but it does and it works very well, i have used it in the past, the best way is to use Slin Pre workout but i do not give this protocol out on the net....



littledaz said:


> I will admit you have educated me on the fact that you can eat around the times of gh as I thought an empty stomach and no food after was best.


this is a good thing....


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## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> it does make more sense now
> 
> this is correct if using GH to release FFA's for use in slow and steady cardio then 40min is good
> 
> ...


Everyday is a learning day ;-)

Yep I've used slin pre workout but I like the fact you don't just throw information out there about this. It's safe enough but you really need to have good experience with slin and how your body reacts to it.

So if using slin pre workout you in theory could have you gh shot with your pre training slin food intake too?

Sorry op for the take over.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

littledaz said:


> Everyday is a learning day ;-)
> 
> Yep I've used slin pre workout but I like the fact you don't just throw information out there about this. It's safe enough but you really need to have good experience with slin and how your body reacts to it.
> 
> ...


you can but i found splitting it when using Slin Pre workout to be a tad better....


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## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> you can but i found splitting it when using Slin Pre workout to be a tad better....


Can you explain more?

Do you mean don't have both before pre workout or just different shots pre workout?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

littledaz said:


> Can you explain more?
> 
> Do you mean don't have both or then pre workout or just different shots pre workout?


explain it more........i mean i find splitting GH and Slin so keeping them apart when i use slin pre workout a tad better???


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## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> explain it more........i mean i find splitting GH and Slin so keeping them apart when i use slin pre workout a tad better???


I'm asking your definition of "splitting".

Does that mean split the slin and gh into two shots so not taken together in the same shot (so if using preworkout it would be slin then just before training a gh shot then train while ingesting the intraworkout shake)

Or do you mean splitting as in only do slin preworkout and use the gh at another time maybe post workout and pre bed?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

littledaz said:


> I'm asking your definition of "splitting".
> 
> Does that mean split the slin and gh into two shots so not taken together in the same shot (so if using preworkout it would be slin then just before training a gh shot then train while ingesting the intraworkout shake)
> 
> Or do you mean splitting as in only do slin preworkout and use the gh at another time maybe post workout and pre bed?


It means when I use insulin pre workout I do not take GH at the same time I take it at another time


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## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> It means when I use insulin pre workout I do not take GH at the same time I take it at another time


Thanks for your patience and calcification.


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