# Any bible readers here ?



## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

Thinking about reading the bible some time.

Any readers?


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

no sorry so not very helpful. I'm not religious in the slightest but i am going to read it one day just to see what its all about.


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## Raw meat 1984 (Sep 17, 2008)

I hope you have a lot of time on your hands then


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah I read it from time to time. Which one though?


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

BettySwallocks said:


> no sorry so not very helpful. I'm not religious in the slightest but i am going to read it one day just to see what its all about.


Same



Raw meat 1984 said:


> I hope you have a lot of time on your hands then


Well being 31 i hope i have about 50 years left so that should be plenty .



andyhuggins said:


> Yeah I read it from time to time. Which one though?


King James ?


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Old or new testement?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Dont bother

Might as well read harry potter its all bollox


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Why not buy a copy of harry potter as its more believable


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> Old or new testement?


Part of why i made this thread was to help me come to a decision on what book to choose .


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## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

This thread is about to get opinionated


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

What's the point of reading a book when you already know how it ends?


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

Breda said:


> Dont bother
> 
> Might as well read harry potter its all bollox


so you have read the whole bible?



BigTrev said:


> Why not buy a copy of harry potter as its more believable


And you?


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

Ian_Montrose said:


> What's the point of reading a book when you already know how it ends?


What the point in living your life if you know how it ends?

Silly post .


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

Please don,t ruin my thread if your not interested in this then don,t post .


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Very interesting read is the bible. Also many other old books and texts verify much of what happens.

God Bless You.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

barry2013 said:


> Part of why i made this thread was to help me come to a decision on what book to choose .


I'd look at both to be honest.


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

are the old and new testament not just like part 1 and 2 of the bible or completely different versions of events?


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

barry2013 said:


> so you have read the whole bible?
> 
> And you?


Yeah as a child I read the bible and attended church every week for years and to me its all a load of bollocks..

No point debating this as it goes pear shaped,,but for me im an atheist and will be for good...period..


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

BigTrev said:


> Yeah as a child I read the bible and attended church every week for years and to me its all a load of bollocks..
> 
> No point debating this as it goes pear shaped,,but for me im an atheist and will be for good...period..


Thank you .

This is what i wanted , Peoples opinions.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

barry2013 said:


> so you have read the whole bible?


20 years goin to church I'm fairly up to speed with the fukrey. Let my boy Muta break it down for you from Genesis to Revelations

His accent is strong so listen keenly


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> This thread is about to get opinionated


Yep... Heeeeeeeerrrrrreeeee we go mate

again


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## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

i would read it mate only so you can come to a conclusion about religion,the best case for atheism is reading a holy book.Some of the moral teachings are OK i suppose but the majority is cruel ,misogynistic nasty bollox.If people started studying religion at age 21 nobody would believe it,people brainwash their children,thats the only way it carries on.I would read these instead,these unravel each book,covers the beginnings of religion,another good book is "Supersense" which covers why people actually believe this stuff in the first place,but these 2 below are a good starting point.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/1843545748/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380659781&sr=8-1&keywords=god+is+not+great

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/055277331X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380659822&sr=8-1&keywords=god+delusion


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

Breda said:


> 20 years goin to church I'm fairly up to speed with the fukrey. Let my boy Muta break it down for you from Genesis to Revelations
> 
> His accent is strong so listen keenly


OK .

Thanks for the input.


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## barry2013 (Sep 29, 2013)

Chris F said:


> i would read it mate only so you can come to a conclusion about religion,the best case for atheism is reading a holy book.Some of the moral teachings are OK i suppose but the majority is cruel ,misogynistic nasty bollox.If people started studying religion at age 21 nobody would believe it,people brainwash their children,thats the only way it carries on.I would read these instead,these unravel each book,covers the beginnings of religion,another good book is "Supersense" which covers why people actually believe this stuff in the first place,but these 2 below are a good starting point.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/1843545748/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380659781&sr=8-1&keywords=god+is+not+great
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/055277331X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380659822&sr=8-1&keywords=god+delusion


Thank you.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

barry2013 said:


> OK .
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Watch those links with an open mind and draw your own conclusions mate


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## QUEST (Sep 26, 2009)

oooh sh!t religious thread.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

It's all about forming your own opinions.


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## Thunderstruck (Sep 20, 2010)

barry2013 said:


> so you have read the whole bible?
> 
> And you?


I dunno if theyve read the bible but i bet they both read harry potter......twice. :thumb:


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

andyhuggins said:


> It's all about forming your own opinions.


Ageeed but evidence and logic suggests there is no god

Since when was a child born to a virgin mother

Since when did snakes talk

Since when did bushes talk

Since when could a man stand on a mountain and talk so millions of people could hear

Since when could you throw a stick on the ground and it turn to a snake

Since when did the sea part

Some much fukrey in the bible tbe list is endless mate... it makes no sense but if people want to believe it that's up to them


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I've literally just started reading this.










So no...


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

andyhuggins said:


> It's all about forming your own opinions.


I agree, I immediately start off on bad footing as the first gospel was written at least 40 years after the agreed date of Jesus' death. Also from memory mentions nothing of the virgin birth and miracles etc which were in the much later written gospels.

Now perhaps their memory was much better back then but I cannot remember exactly what went on last year with any accuracy, but hey if it makes people happy to believe in a contradictory book full of magical happens and predictions that have been repeatedly been wrong who am I to judge.


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

L11 said:


> I've literally just started reading this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great book, more complaints about the damage religion can do though rather than disproving it. His book on Mother Theresa is a good read too.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Anyone got cliffs on the bible?

Busy and all that :lol:


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## ohno (Jun 7, 2013)

Breda said:


> Ageeed but evidence and logic suggests there is no god
> 
> Since when was a child born to a virgin mother
> 
> ...


you gotta remember it was from a time before the internet, TV and connect 4

people didn't have much else to do other than shag their own sister then stone someone to death

as long as a bloke was free to shag a goat then sell his wife for beer money folk were pretty much happy to believe anything


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Breda said:


> Ageeed but evidence and logic suggests there is no god
> 
> Since when was a child born to a virgin mother
> 
> ...


Are these opinions sponsored by Matrix Nutrition? :whistling:


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

barry2013 said:


> Thinking about reading the bible some time.
> 
> Any readers?


The question was has anyone read it not believed it?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

ohno said:


> you gotta remember it was from a time before the internet, TV and connect 4
> 
> people didn't have much else to do other than shag their own sister then stone someone to death
> 
> as long as a bloke was free to shag a goat then sell his wife for beer money folk were pretty much happy to believe anything


Swear some guy breeded up his 2 daughters in the book too.

Now if a man wrote a book today, which is supposed to have a moral standing for all to follow but nex man is breedin up his daughters that book aint sellin


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

andyhuggins said:


> The question was has anyone read it not believed it?


Yes mate. Lots.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Heath said:


> Are these opinions sponsored by Matrix Nutrition? :whistling:


No Sir

I am allowed to think independently of Matrix Nutrition


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## guvnor82 (Oct 23, 2011)

I prefer the work Andy mcnab and Chris Ryan better.

Still can't decide which one to base my belief on.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Breda said:


> No Sir
> 
> I am allowed to think independently of Matrix Nutrition


I heard differently


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## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

Bashy said:


> Great book, more complaints about the damage religion can do though rather than disproving it. His book on Mother Theresa is a good read too.


Fantastic Book,i have read a load of Hitchens books Including the Mother Theresa one  ,"The God Delusion" is a good one too,by Richard Dawkins,Also " Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Heath said:


> I heard differently


Have you been prayin?


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Just read it mate start on the old testament, I've read it and have my own opinion

I think it was a collection of parables and round the fire stories for simple people in simple times and not meant to be taken literally


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## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

Whilst in the Holy Land I was lucky enough to be given access to one of the oldest copies of the Bible in existance. My hand shook as I turned the big heavy cover to see the beatifully hand written first page. Being as it was in Hebrew, I could not understand it but instictively knew I was looking at some incredibly powerful message. I called over one of the Learned Professors and asked if he would just translate this one page for me to complete this most spiritual of experiences. He swallowed and took a breath and read the words I will never forget......

"Any reference to persons living or dead is purely coincidental"


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

It's strange how people get so fired up when asked if they have read a certain book.


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## nowhereboy (May 22, 2012)

I read it once for a laugh.... really, it's hilarious.


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## Ballin (Aug 24, 2011)

I reckon the Romans made it up so they could sweep across and expand their empire and keep people in check/occupied with it's message.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

barry2013 said:


> Thinking about reading the bible some time.
> 
> Any readers?


The op could have said thinking about reading Wind in the Willows. Would he have got the same response?


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

The Bible is a good read. Go ahead and read it with an open mind. There is alot of what's going on in the world today in the Bible and it will open your mind

just go for it you won't regret it.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

babyarm said:


> The Bible is a good read. Go ahead and read it with an open mind. There is alot of what's going on in the world today in the Bible and it will open your mind
> 
> just go for it you won't regret it.


A lot of what's goin on today is as a result of the bible


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

Thousands die each year in the name of god, when was the last time the devil got someone killed? Just saying

Also dat dem Muslim god seems to be the most angry, although mentioning anything further gets the thread locked because stating truths on the internet is racist or something lol

I counter act you OP, go read GCSE science, that's a good read


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## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> The op could have said thinking about reading Wind in the Willows. Would he have got the same response?


I doubt it,probably because "Wind in the Willows" hasn't shaped the planet in the same way that religious books have.


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## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

Chris F said:


> i would read it mate only so you can come to a conclusion about religion,the best case for atheism is reading a holy book.Some of the moral teachings are OK i suppose but the majority is cruel ,misogynistic nasty bollox.If people started studying religion at age 21 nobody would believe it,people brainwash their children,thats the only way it carries on.I would read these instead,these unravel each book,covers the beginnings of religion,another good book is "Supersense" which covers why people actually believe this stuff in the first place,but these 2 below are a good starting point.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/1843545748/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380659781&sr=8-1&keywords=god+is+not+great
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/055277331X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380659822&sr=8-1&keywords=god+delusion


The god delusion is great...always thought dawkins was a very clever writer and made his books easy to pick up and read for someone who might not necessarily be a science buff.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

The thing is he was asking have you read it. not your beliefs.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

I can debunk the bible in 3 words. Ready?

"Snakes cant talk"


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

IGotTekkers said:


> I can debunk the bible in 3 words. Ready?
> 
> "Snakes cant talk"


Oh they can believe me.


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

Breda said:


> A lot of what's goin on today is as a result of the bible


How?

We are living in a time of sodom and gomorrah is that because of the Bible?


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

I bought a copy 2 months ago and enjoying it


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Breda said:


> Dont bother
> 
> Might as well read harry potter its all bollox


But less entertaining or believable.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

most people commenting against op fail to forget religions are built on faith

i could say more but we all know where this will end


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Well its a great read for a good old giggle..

I still think paul daniels stunts were much better,,,

Well the last supper must been fantastic as he turned water into wine,,,,right up my street..

In truth I loved the romans bigtime,,,,class looking uniforms,,,orgys,,,slaves,,,and a Saturday night viewing even sky tv cant give..

gladiators looked like a bunch of gypos,,,brown cracked up leather and shorts like 1980s espania world cup...

And bonus is when I go to hell atleast its warm and I will meet ones I know


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## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

babyarm said:


> How?
> 
> We are living in a time of sodom and gomorrah is that because of the Bible?


Priests having sex with children.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

babyarm said:


> How?
> 
> We are living in a time of sodom and gomorrah is that because of the Bible?


Sodom and gomorrah is a place not a time.

This country is a Christian country is it not? Christian laws?

Go court - see a bible

Get married - see a bible

Wars are fought over religion not politics


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

Breda said:


> 20 years goin to church I'm fairly up to speed with the fukrey. Let my boy Muta break it down for you from Genesis to Revelations
> 
> His accent is strong so listen keenly


Looool I'm getting about 50% of the words

Anyways OP; I've read genesis (a tiny part, the start basically) and plan on going back to it and reading the whole thing one day, Christianity has such a big impact on our society/life's so why not educate yourself and see what it's all about


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

DazUKM said:


> Looool I'm getting about 50% of the words
> 
> Anyways OP; I've read genesis (a tiny part, the start basically) and plan on going back to it and reading the whole thing one day, Christianity has such a big impact on our society/life's so why not educate yourself and see what it's all about


At least you tried mate.

That jamaican accent aint too easy to understand if you're a newbie


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

Breda said:


> Sodom and gomorrah is a place not a time.
> 
> This country is a Christian country is it not? Christian laws?
> 
> ...


I know it's a place. The lifestyle then seems to be the lifestyle we've grown into.its in the Bible because it's been forseen and the world is going in the wrong direction according to plan.

We all have our own opinion on the matter and this will just be one big roundabout.


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## [email protected] (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm not religious at all but I do love to read. I started reading the Old Testament a few years ago but lost interest after a few pages of "so and so begot so and so and he lived for 500 years" etc. Might go back and give it another go one day.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

babyarm said:


> I know it's a place. The lifestyle then seems to be the lifestyle we've grown into.its in the Bible because it's been forseen and the world is going in the wrong direction according to plan.
> 
> We all have our own opinion on the matter and this will just be one big roundabout.


The lifestyle then is the way life has always been

Gays, fornication and murder... its no different to now mate.

The world has never been thru a period of perfection even the god sent floods to clean up the earth and start again

Which would lead you to noah and his family havin insetual relations in order to repopulate the earth unless they slept with the animals

Which leads to another question. If the ark was 500ft long theres no way every animal on earth would fit in it?

Which leads to another question did they travel the world makin sure they had 2 of each before shuttin the door and bringin on the flood? because they couldn't be in England collectin elephants

What was/is the plan mate? Jesus guna burn all the wicked anyway so there was never a plan for us to behave in a "godly" manner


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## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

Isnt Sodom and Gomorrah just the usual Anti Gay Bullsh1t thats been trotted out along with the fire and brimstone stories,nothing has been " Forseen" .Opinions on it dont really count if they hold no weight,it may be my opinion that i am the Mack daddy of all the women on earth,just because i believe it,it doesnt make it so.But wait,i may tell my children that i am the Mack Daddy,and they will grow up believing it.And so my ascent into the realm of " Miggedy Mack Daddy" is starting If i convince enough people , i may get a little cult going,it still doesnt make it right ,in the face of ever growing evidence to the contrary.

Hasnt the fire and Brimstone already been debunked as an austrian asteroid? Im gonna get too involved in this  Im gonna do the sensible thing,im going to bed.

http://manwiththemuckrake.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/sodom-and-gomorrah-my-ass/


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## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

I went to a catholic school (inb4 priest touched me etc) - I'm familiar with both testaments. First was good lot of action, death, floods etc but left a lot of unanswered questions. Second testament was more family focused and obviously introduced Jesus who is a familiar dude these days. Would love a sequel sometime


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## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

The L Man said:


> I went to a catholic school (inb4 priest touched me etc) - I'm familiar with both testaments. First was good lot of action, death, floods etc but left a lot of unanswered questions. Second testament was more family focused and obviously introduced Jesus who is a familiar dude these days. Would love a sequel sometime


Youve already got it mate,its called the Quran


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Lol this reminds me of when Russel Brand interviewed those guys from the Westborough Baptist Church.

"Holy Spirit ain't got a pen!"


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

The L Man said:


> I went to a catholic school * (inb4 priest touched me etc)* - I'm familiar with both testaments. First was good lot of action, death, floods etc but left a lot of unanswered questions. Second testament was more family focused and obviously introduced Jesus who is a familiar dude these days. Would love a sequel sometime


Don't dodge the issue mate did they actually touch you?


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes I read it every night before I go out Jew slaying!


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## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

b0t13 said:


> Also dat dem Muslim god seems to be the most angry, although mentioning anything further gets the thread locked because stating truths on the internet is racist or something lol


Do you realise that "dat dem Muslim god" is the same one as the Christian one, just different interpretations of the same stories both are Abrahamic religions, ohhhh and both are bollox :tongue:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

tioc said:


> Do you realise that "dat dem Muslim god" is the same one as the Christian one, just different interpretations of the same stories both are Abrahamic religions, ohhhh and both are bollox :tongue:


Dat dem Old Testament yehaw ( yep, he was a cowboy) was the most evil out the lot. Wrangling the non believers with his lasso of peace and burning them in the fires if forgiveness and love. :rolleye:


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## mightyman (Sep 21, 2012)

Read the Quran its the Final Revelation, i did and it made sense.


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

mightyman said:


> Read the Quran its the Final Revelation, i did and it made sense.


think ill read the Quran after Bible, but considering i only read for 2 weeks a year its going to take a while


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

I have actually read a fair bit of it, you cant prove any of it to be true or false but if you took some of the 'teachings' from it, you would be a nice person


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## flapjack (Mar 1, 2008)

Not religious myself but think the bible does contain some useful lessons.

You should look at it as a metaphorical book for not being too much of a ****.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

The bible, and the torah, the koran, and the bhagavad gita and upanishads are all worth reading whether a believer or not in any of those faiths. Equally interesting, and equally important imo though is to read about possible forgeries, re-edits and the historical context of how the religious works by the big religions came together - is important I think to not limit oneself to interpreting those texts from the point of view of their religions only and to also do some study of them from a non religious perspective to get the best understanding of how those books actually came to be in their modern forms.

I've read bits of all of those texts and, religious interpretation and doubt about authenticity and accuracy aside, they are all interesting and each contains some undeniably profound content.


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## artful_dodger87 (Mar 4, 2011)

I might steal a copy from the hotel room i'll be staying in tomorrow. Are there any good morals to be learnt from it?


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## mrbritish (Mar 29, 2013)

Each edition has been updated changed by

Whoever was in power at the time to meet their

Needs .

Look at the newest form ;-)

Now we can get divorced .


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't really read the bible but there's this one paragraph I have memorised, it's Ezekiel 25:17...

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

flapjack said:


> Not religious myself but think the bible does contain some useful lessons.
> 
> You should look at it as a metaphorical book for not being too much of a ****.


Alternatively it gives plenty of lessons on how to be a complete ****.

"Genesis 19:1-11. Two men who were really angels appeared in Sodom where Lot lived with his family. The wicked men of the city surrounded Lot's house seeking to have homosexual relations with the angels. Lot begged the men of the city not to do this evil thing and he offered up his two virgin daughters to them instead."

If the Old Testament was written now I'm pretty sure we wouldn't let children read it.


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## JankyClown (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm agnostic, but have read parts of the bible(s) out of curiosity. So much of our world is based on what's written, it's the most influential piece(s) of literature of all time - not that that's a good thing, but it's fact nonetheless.


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

supermancss said:


> I have actually read a fair bit of it, you cant prove any of it to be true or false but *if you took some of the 'teachings' from it, you would be a nice person*


And if you took some other's you would be a cnut


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

MrM said:


> Alternatively it gives plenty of lessons on how to be a complete ****.
> 
> "Genesis 19:1-11. Two men who were really angels appeared in Sodom where Lot lived with his family. The wicked men of the city surrounded Lot's house seeking to have homosexual relations with the angels. Lot begged the men of the city not to do this evil thing and he offered up his two virgin daughters to them instead."
> 
> If the Old Testament was written now I'm pretty sure we wouldn't let children read it.


Thats the same Lot that got his 2 daughters pregnant

Pure Fukrey!


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## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

Go for it mate. Make your own mind up. All well and good people saying "bloody fairytales" but it's up to you to make your own mind up. If you get to the end and don't think it's for you, at least you'll be a bit better at pub quizzes


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## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

barry2013 said:


> Thinking about reading the bible some time.
> 
> Any readers?


I would read it and form your own opinions. If you're a believer then I think you really need to read it, although if you are a believer I hope you just don't pick and choose what bits you like and disregard the bits you don't :whistling:

If you're an atheist then I think it will just reinforce why you're an atheist.

As a side note these are the ages that the patriarchs in the bible LIVED to see...

Patriarch Age

Adam -930- Genesis 5:4

Seth - 912- Genesis 5:8

Enosh -905- Genesis 5:11

Cainan -910- Genesis 5:14

Mahalalel -895- Genesis 5:17

Jared -962- Genesis 5:20

Enoch -365- (translated) Genesis 5:23

Methuselah -969- Genesis 5:27

Lamech -777- Genesis 5:31

Noah -950- Genesis 9:29

:innocent:


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Those are some old ass dudes


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

I've read the children's version which is about 100 pages when I was younger and started on the full version but didn't even get halfway through. My sister on the other hand has been reading it over and over for the past few years now.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

I've read various versions and studied them.

I'm not particularly religious but to those who say "It's bollocks"? Sure, a lot of the content may be but that doesn't mean that it should be dismissed offhand.

You want to know why you live the way you do? It's all in the Bible. No other book has influenced man in the way that the OT and NT have. Our whole society has been created on what lies between it's pages and it continues to shape it to this day.

To say that the Bible is worthless ignores the fact that it is the most important book ever written.

It shaped mankind.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

read the bible then go read dawkins


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

there are some great bible quotes here are some of my favourite.

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."

"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

almost up there with USA/RUSSIA/CHINA/N.KOREA on the propaganda front


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> I've read various versions and studied them.
> 
> I'm not particularly religious but to those who say "It's bollocks"? Sure, a lot of the content may be but that doesn't mean that it should be dismissed offhand.
> 
> ...


If you're creditin the bible for the state of man kind, thats just another reason why it and its teachings should be abolished


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> there are some great bible quotes here are some of my favourite.
> 
> "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
> 
> ...


Wtf translation are they from cos I've never heard those before


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## jay101 (Aug 9, 2011)

I personally find the Old Testament more interesting than the new.

You should start at genesis and work your way forward,

you wouldn't start lord of the rings half way through you'd be pretty confused !!!


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Breda said:


> Wtf translation are they from cos I've never heard those before


last one is new international version Kings 2:23-24


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BIG can of worms this... I have to really bite my tongue. As an Atheist I struggle to tolerate the iron age nonsense, bigotry, hate and persecution, religion brings to the world.

So no.


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## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

Would never bring myself to read that brainwashing junk. route to all evil, all war all everything is religion.

yet the christians are different they just knock on the door wanting money


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Open if you want some decent reading start with the Sumerian texts and then the book of Enoch after that start the king James , there is some crazy stuff about fallen angels basically aliens who mated with us .. also when the kind from of God comeback it's go a be an alien invasion the bible says a giant pyramid 1500 miles a cross is gona come very good stuff if you look at it from the right angle.. we're actually close now to the end ... martial law will hit USA and the UK ...we3 then battle of Armageddon '' if you want any chance of surviving what is coming go to high ground in wilderness ...the four corner of the earth in the bible are actually four safe zones one in China , .Peru, off coast of ireland, and I forget last one .... try to learn real history first , the hidden real history . The Sumerian txt , book of Enoch is a start...enjoy


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Personally, I'm agnostic to it all.

Was brought up, and raised a catholic, and went to catholic schools - was even an alter boy for a while. And no, I was never touched in a bad place by a priest, teacher, or cub / scout leader. Either I was quite repulsive as a child - more than possible, or somehow I dodged a bullet.

At some point, and you'd be suprised at how young I was, I decided it all sounded a bit too implausible. I've been sceptical - perhaps cynical - since quite an early age. Put it this way, I've personal experience of being in infant school, in a catholic school, and telling the teacher I didn't believe in it all. Didn't go down well...

So I've experience, certainly in my younger years, of both reading and studying the bible (old and new testaments), although that's not to say I'm any kind of expert or scholar on the subject.

The thing that gets me, is the number of people who say they read the bible (or other "holy" books), who apparently believe in it all, and STILL act and behave like utter cvnts. And in some cases because of their beliefs. Whether it's like a get-out-of-jail-free card, or something else that emboldens people that way, I'm not entirely sure - but that's the biggest eye-opener for me. That very much in the main, it's not indicative that the person you meet who claims they read whichever brand of religious book that suits them, and subscribe to that particular designer label of religious belief will actually display any clear morality or ethics - in many cases, the complete opposite.


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

@Milky ....mate let connorb back on get a bit of illuminati in this thread


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> Open if you want some decent reading start with the Sumerian texts and then the book of Enoch after that start the king James , there is some crazy stuff about fallen angels basically aliens who mated with us .. also when the kind from of God comeback it's go a be an alien invasion the bible says a giant pyramid 1500 miles a cross is gona come very good stuff if you look at it from the right angle.. we're actually close now to the end ... martial law will hit USA and the UK ...we3 then battle of Armageddon '' if you want any chance of surviving what is coming go to high ground in wilderness ...the four corner of the earth in the bible are actually four safe zones one in China , .Peru, off coast of ireland, and I forget last one .... try to learn real history first , the hidden real history . The Sumerian txt , book of Enoch is a start...enjoy


You serious?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)




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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

The bible also says he set Egyptian against Egyptian and puts a cruel ruler over them it also says Damascus in Syria becomes a ruinous heap this all ready happening were in the last days now..the system is already finished its collapsing very fast now but your all to stuck in your bubbles to see what's coming , maybe the new world order Mark of the beast is already upon us .....the bible said most would be sent strong delusion that you will live a lie ... it basically says your all slaughtered for forgetting God's laws and ways and who ever ex pets the mark goes straight to hell , the mark of the beast goes in the forehead or the right hand , and no one can buy sell or trade without it .... the bankers have intentionally caused debt to crash the system and bring electronic money in your all being warmed up by the idea with credit cards now phones next it will be the chip in the hand already developed. Aka the mark of the beast


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

Breda said:


> The lifestyle then is the way life has always been
> 
> Gays, fornication and murder... its no different to now mate.
> 
> ...


You need to watch evan al'mighty


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> The bible also says he set Egyptian against Egyptian and puts a cruel ruler over them it also says Damascus in Syria becomes a ruinous heap this all ready happening were in the last days now..the system is already finished its collapsing very fast now but your all to stuck in your bubbles to see what's coming , maybe the new world order Mark of the beast is already upon us .....the bible said most would be sent strong delusion that you will live a lie ... it basically says your all slaughtered for forgetting God's laws and ways and who ever ex pets the mark goes straight to hell , the mark of the beast goes in the forehead or the right hand , and no one can buy sell or trade without it .... the bankers have intentionally caused debt to crash the system and bring electronic money in your all being warmed up by the idea with credit cards now phones next it will be the chip in the hand already developed. Aka the mark of the beast


How do you know its the last days if no man knows the hour or the minute and the same fukry thats happenin today has been happenin for 100s of years?

I didnt read the rest of your post


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> The bible also says he set Egyptian against Egyptian and puts a cruel ruler over them it also says Damascus in Syria becomes a ruinous heap this all ready happening were in the last days now..the system is already finished its collapsing very fast now but your all to stuck in your bubbles to see what's coming , maybe the new world order Mark of the beast is already upon us .....the bible said most would be sent strong delusion that you will live a lie ... it basically says your all slaughtered for forgetting God's laws and ways and who ever ex pets the mark goes straight to hell , the mark of the beast goes in the forehead or the right hand , and no one can buy sell or trade without it .... the bankers have intentionally caused debt to crash the system and bring electronic money in your all being warmed up by the idea with credit cards now phones next it will be the chip in the hand already developed. Aka the mark of the beast


cool story.

its not secret the world if monopolised by conglomerates etc. tbh its the nature of capitalism and even evolution.

i like to stay are removed as possible


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> You serious?


Yeah why wouldn't I be , that's what it says ...even the Austrians says Jesus aka is a descends out of the sky in Damascus ... and the bible says with 144,000 chariots ... so people think of horses with chariots lol. .. its ufos ... even the top of the real mount Sinai is still burnt black to this day from the :ufo that Moses went up to ...


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

We've got a crazy neighbour who think Jesus is a alien who floated around in a space suit---you can't breath in space remember so you'll have to wear a oxygen tank and specialist suit!! Yadda yadda yadda


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> Yeah why wouldn't I be , that's what it says ...even the Austrians says Jesus aka is a descends out of the sky in Damascus ... and the bible says with 144,000 chariots ... so people think of horses with chariots lol. .. its ufos ... even the top of the real mount Sinai is still burnt black to this day from the :ufo that Moses went up to ...


Read back this post and tell me how you sound sane


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> How do you know its the last days if no man knows the hour or the minute and the same fukry thats happenin today has been happenin for 100s of years?
> 
> I didnt read the rest of your post


No man knows the hour yeah but the signs are there to warns us ... Egypt and Damascus are huge and when martial law hits the west it's time to flee ... for it says everyone is penned in and the entire place is burnt with fire in one hour .. I remember the chinnooks flying over manchester in 2011 and landing in parks with troops jumping out .it's almost here...


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> No man knows the hour yeah but the signs are there to warns us ... Egypt and Damascus are huge and when martial law hits the west it's time to flee ... for it says everyone is penned in and the entire place is burnt with fire in one hour .. I remember the chinnooks flying over manchester in 2011 and landing in parks with troops jumping out .it's almost here...


The same signs were there when your Jesus trod the earth tho. Whats the difference between now and then?

A house cant burn down in an hour so I dont know how the whole of tbe west will. And when was this prophecised because I'm sure time is a man made concept


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## artful_dodger87 (Mar 4, 2011)

Time to stop taking the drugs and step away from the pc. A good sleep will sort you out jonniequest.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i think its implying we will nuke ourselves in to oblivion!

Cannot come soon enough tbh. scummy humongs


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> Read back this post and tell me how you sound sane


I've studied this for years . Just cos your not clued up, it doesn't mean I'm insane .what sounds more realistic ...the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years and God floated over them by day it was a white cloud by night a pillar of fire ... it was a Damn ufo watch the link it shows the mountain burnt to this day rock melted to glass only stupid heat could do that .... the Sumerian txt talk of beings that came down from. The sky and used humans to mine gold ...we were slaves putty you don't k ow real history ..cos nearly every indigenous people do and have similar stories .. look up the dogon tribe and the Hopi Indian prophesies ... you will soon see your all living the delusion


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> No man knows the hour yeah but the signs are there to warns us ... Egypt and Damascus are huge and when martial law hits the west it's time to flee ... for it says everyone is penned in and the entire place is burnt with fire in one hour .. I remember the chinnooks flying over manchester in 2011 and landing in parks with troops jumping out .it's almost here...


I bet you £1000 the world will not end in a year of your choosing. It's win win for me... if it ends I don't have to pay you and if it doesn't you have to pay me.


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## artful_dodger87 (Mar 4, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> I've studied this for years . Just cos your not clued up, it doesn't mean I'm insane .what sounds more realistic ...the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years and God floated over them by day it was a white cloud by night a pillar of fire ... it was a Damn ufo watch the link it shows the mountain burnt to this day rock melted to glass only stupid heat could do that .... the Sumerian txt talk of beings that came down from. The sky and used humans to mine gold ...we were slaves putty you don't k ow real history ..cos nearly every indigenous people do and have similar stories .. look up the dogon tribe and the Hopi Indian prophesies ... you will soon see your all living the delusion


Because ancient civilians wrote about and drew stck men pictures in caves the end of the world is coming. Those same civilians could be mesmerised by "I've got your nose". If its really the end of the world enjoy your life and fornicate.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> I've studied this for years . Just cos your not clued up, it doesn't mean I'm insane .what sounds more realistic ...the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years and God floated over them by day it was a white cloud by night a pillar of fire ... it was a Damn ufo watch the link it shows the mountain burnt to this day rock melted to glass only stupid heat could do that .... the Sumerian txt talk of beings that came down from. The sky and used humans to mine gold ...we were slaves putty you don't k ow real history ..cos nearly every indigenous people do and have similar stories .. look up the dogon tribe and the Hopi Indian prophesies ... you will soon see your all living the delusion


LMAO! studied what? Some iron age books written thousands of years ago by people who thought the world was flat, slavery & human sacrifice was ok and witches existed?? The Sumerian story is entertaining and more plausible than the bible but its still nonsense with no proof or evidence.

I can study fairies and unicorns... doesn't make them real.


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

How anyone can accept the bible written by man, who passes it off as though it was Gods words which are written, is doing a massive disservice to God. It is wrong, wrong, wrong and has far too many physical attributes to it. No wonder atheists are nearer to the truth than those who accept what the bible says.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> I've studied this for years . Just cos your not clued up, it doesn't mean I'm insane .what sounds more realistic ...the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years and God floated over them by day it was a white cloud by night a pillar of fire ... it was a Damn ufo watch the link it shows the mountain burnt to this day rock melted to glass only stupid heat could do that .... the Sumerian txt talk of beings that came down from. The sky and used humans to mine gold ...we were slaves putty you don't k ow real history ..cos nearly every indigenous people do and have similar stories .. look up the dogon tribe and the Hopi Indian prophesies ... you will soon see your all living the delusion


I lived it for 20 years... surrounded by family and friends who were and still are fully immersed in this bull sh!t so you keep studyin fella cos you have a lot to learn.

Mate I can't take the rest of your post seriously but I welcome further discussion


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Breda said:


> If you're creditin the bible for the state of man kind, thats just another reason why it and its teachings should be abolished


That's not the point.

It doesn't matter whether you believe in what's written in it or if you approve of it (for the most part, I don't).

The fact is that it's the most influential thing ever written and for that alone, it's worth reading.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

funkdocta said:


> LMAO! studied what? Some iron age books written thousands of years ago by people who thought the world was flat, slavery & human sacrifice was ok and witches existed?? The Sumerian story is entertaining and more plausible than the bible but its still nonsense with no proof or evidence.
> 
> I can study fairies and unicorns... doesn't make them real.


People dont question it because its in the bible. They've been told it's true so it must be true


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> That's not the point.
> 
> It doesn't matter whether you believe in what's written in it or if you approve of it (for the most part, I don't).
> 
> The fact is that it's the most influential thing ever written and for that alone, it's worth reading.


It is indeed worth reading. But that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Breda said:


> People dont question it because its in the bible. They've been told it's true so it must be true


Well that is were we get into parents brainwashing their kids. And people in positions of power using it to control people on-mass.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> That's not the point.
> 
> It doesn't matter whether you believe in what's written in it or if you approve of it (for the most part, I don't).
> 
> The fact is that it's the most influential thing ever written and for that alone, it's worth reading.


Because it was used by the Greeks which was a super power and the Romans (I think) as I way of controllin there people. Hence tge term greko roman Them same Romans damn near took over the world by brute force so it stands to reason that the book is so influential.

Even Napoleon to rhatid forced Africans to accept the bible or die

The bible is influential because of the cnuts that pushed it not because of its moral teachings


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

jonniequest said:


> I've studied this for years . Just cos your not clued up, it doesn't mean I'm insane .what sounds more realistic ...the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years and God floated over them by day it was a white cloud by night a pillar of fire ... it was a Damn ufo watch the link it shows the mountain burnt to this day rock melted to glass only stupid heat could do that .... the Sumerian txt talk of beings that came down from. The sky and used humans to mine gold ...we were slaves putty you don't k ow real history ..cos nearly every indigenous people do and have similar stories .. look up the dogon tribe and the Hopi Indian prophesies ... you will soon see your all living the delusion


Say hi to the reptilian humanoids for me.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Breda said:


> The bible is influential because of the cnuts that pushed it not because of its moral teachings


Much, much more than that. Not just morals.

Just about everything you do as a human-being - eat, sh!t, fart, play, sleep - is influenced by that book.

*EVERYTHING*. If not directly, then indirectly.

Let me repeat - *It shaped the way human-beings live*.

Let me also repeat - I'm no defender of religion. I couldn't give a f*ck if anyone has crazy love for Jesus and want to give him a w*nk or if they are a fully paid up member of the Church of Satan. I really couldn't give a rats ass. I also couldn't give a f*ck if people find the contents "ridiculous". But to disregard the Bible simply because you may disagree with the contents is silly. By doing that, you throw away the chance to learn why mankind evolved the way it did over the past couple of thousand years.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> Much, much more than that. Not just morals.
> 
> Just about everything you do as a human-being - eat, sh!t, fart, play, sleep - is influenced by that book.
> 
> ...


Im not disregarding the influence the bible has on westenised and british colonised countries by the way.

I agree that it has shaped the way we live in the sense of our laws and what not but not from a moral stand point


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

How does the bible influence natural instinctual human behavior such as sleeping, eating, playing and farting?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> Much, much more than that. Not just morals.
> 
> Just about everything you do as a human-being - eat, sh!t, fart, play, sleep - is influenced by that book.
> 
> ...


Not true I'm afraid. They were already reading and writing and wiping their own ****s in the far east before the bible was "put together".


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Breda said:


> I agree that it has shaped the way we live in the sense of our laws and what not but not from a moral stand point


Heh! But it has mate. When you say "moral standpoint" I assume you're talking about being "good".

But look at it from the other way - people have also used it to justify doing bad sh!t to others. Morality kicks both ways. And some of that bad sh!t became perfectly acceptable to our societies.

Just one real quick example off the top of my head - homosexuality. Gay people face persecution (and in some cases are murdered) because people twist the Bible and use it as a justification for homophobia.

The Bible has shaped the good *and* the bad. Again - we get back to that statement that it's shaped everything.

Incidentally, the Bible has also shaped countries with *no* Western/British influence. Other religions have been created off it's back. One or two of them huge. What's The Qu'ran if not just a bastardisation of the Old Testament?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> Heh! But it has mate. When you say "moral standpoint" I assume you're talking about being "good".
> 
> But look at it from the other way - people have also used it to justify doing bad sh!t to others. Morality kicks both ways. And some of that bad sh!t became perfectly acceptable to our societies.
> 
> ...


I dont mean good or bad mate, I mean the way the human brain works, the way we think, empathy etc etc

Anyone can use the bible to justify their actions, that doesn't necessarily mean the bible has influenced them but they just use it as a get out clause

The majority of people I assume know very little about the bible so it couldn't shape their morality in either way


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Not true I'm afraid. They were already reading and writing and wiping their own ****s in the far east before the bible was "put together".


LMAO!! You're kidding. Western civilisations were founded and based on "Christian principles". That spread over to non-Western cultures due to colonisation.

"Christian Principles" aren't moral laws. They're the cement that binds society together. The whole interaction of human being with human being. From architecture to law, from social behaviour to philosophical thinking.

Older societies may have existed but that's irrelevant. Even if some of their customs and traditions were carried over (which many were), they were "absorbed" by Christianity and therefore became part of it. Those which weren't acceptable to it were discarded.

To argue otherwise is just dumb.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Breda said:


> I dont mean good or bad mate, I mean the way the human brain works, the way we think, empathy etc etc
> 
> Anyone can use the bible to justify their actions, that doesn't necessarily mean the bible has influenced them but they just use it as a get out clause
> 
> The majority of people I assume know very little about the bible so it couldn't shape their morality in either way


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

funkdocta said:


>


Will watch that later mate


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

Not worth reading imo. The essential message is love god (or any sort of higher power, or for atheists any greater idea) and love your neighbor (do as you would be done by, and if everyone does this, the world will be better this way). The rest is just flak to make it more interesting - for most of history it has been in Latin so only a tiny minority of society understood it, and so ideas went around through stories/morals.

You'd be better off reading some good psychology if you want self knowledge or some Nazi holocaust accounts (Chris Browning's Ordinary Men is particularly good and grim) if you are doubting whether there is a god and wanting to be convinced one way or the other (you will be convinced there is no god).


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Breda said:


> The majority of people I assume know very little about the bible so it couldn't shape their morality in either way


I hear you. But my reckoning on that is that you don't really need an in-depth knowledge of the Bible for it to affect your morality.

I never read it until I was well into my 20s. I was never (and still am not) a church goer. I'm only a "Christian" on paper.

But as a kid, there was always a right and a wrong and part of that was undeniably shaped by religion. Why? *Fear*.

Like every kid, I'd heard of Heaven and Hell. And I reckon that as a kid, something like that hanging over your head, plays a massive part on your psychology. I don't see it as being something that can be palmed off as being trivial but as something that plays a big part in the make up of how we grow psychologically. So even if I didn't overtly recognise it and even though religion wasn't really a big deal to me, I was being guided by the fear of going to Hell into behaving myself.

I think sometimes, we dislike reigion so much and try to trivialise it because of that. The danger then is that we overlook the fact that it really did shape us in some way. And not always positively.


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> LMAO!! You're kidding. Western civilisations were founded and based on "Christian principles". That spread over to non-Western cultures due to colonisation.
> 
> "Christian Principles" aren't moral laws. They're the cement that binds society together. The whole interaction of human being with human being. From architecture to law, from social behaviour to philosophical thinking.
> 
> ...


Nope, this isn't true. Pre Christian principles carried on in spite of Christianity - Christian principles was the dark ages.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

frenchpress said:


> Nope, this isn't true. Pre Christian principles carried on in spite of Christianity - Christian principles was the dark ages.


Read what I wrote:

*Even if some of their customs and traditions were carried over (which many were), they were "absorbed" by Christianity and therefore became part of it.*


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Read what I wrote:
> 
> *Even if some of their customs and traditions were carried over (which many were), they were "absorbed" by Christianity and therefore became part of it.*


If the Catholic Church adopted Newtons Laws of Motion, does that make them Catholic and not Newton's?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> LMAO!! You're kidding. Western civilisations were founded and based on "Christian principles". That spread over to non-Western cultures due to colonisation.
> 
> "Christian Principles" aren't moral laws. They're the cement that binds society together. The whole interaction of human being with human being. From architecture to law, from social behaviour to philosophical thinking.
> 
> ...


Right so them Chinese dynasties where founded on Christian principles? You do realise they pre-date the bible??

As you put it "Just about everything you do as a human-being - eat, sh!t, fart, play, sleep - is influenced by that book. EVERYTHING. If not directly, then indirectly." Now I don't deny its massive influence in wars, politics, laws and other such things, on that you are correct in my opinion. But humans were eating, ****ting, writing, playing, sleeping, killing, hunting, making moral choices long before the bible was written, so some of what you are saying simply isn't correct. I may be being a little pedantic but my point still stands.

The bible stole a lot stuff from previous religions i.e Paganism... For example: Winter Soltice celebrations (yule logs, December 25th date as birth of Christ, etc) that were converted into Christmas tradition. Spring Equinox celebrations (involving eggs, fertility, renewal of life) that were converted into Easter traditions. So we can also say that Paganism has had a massive influence on western civilisation.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> I hear you. But my reckoning on that is that you don't really need an in-depth knowledge of the Bible for it to affect your morality.
> 
> I never read it until I was well into my 20s. I was never (and still am not) a church goer. I'm only a "Christian" on paper.
> 
> ...


You aren't wrong. A lot of people still live like that today. On the other hand though, i never went to church and never feared god or going to hell, my parents were not religious in the slightest. I like to think I have very good morals so im living proof Christianity (and all other religions) is not needed


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Mr_Socko said:


> How does the bible influence natural instinctual human behavior such as sleeping, eating, playing and farting?


Eating and farting?

Go read the "Food laws" in Leviticus.

Most are now defunct but a lot of them were adhered to until very recently.

Playing?

How many times have things been censored by the Christian lobby? Go read up on Mary Whitehouse as a big example of someone using religion to fck the rest of us and our leisure time.

Sleeping?

The Bible says you're not allowed to shag chickens. AFAIK. That's still illegal in the UK and that law is based on Biblical law.

(You may say thats' a "Fcking" thing and not a "Sleeping" one, but I always insist that they spend the night with me after sex).


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

frenchpress said:


> If the Catholic Church adopted Newtons Laws of Motion, does that make them Catholic and not Newton's?


I don't disagree but there's the unfortunate fly in the ointment: If the Catholic Church adopted Newtons Laws of Motion and then destroyed every single bit of evidence of Newton's existence then you wouldn't know otherwise.

And that's pretty much the way that Christianity worked - it overwhelmed everthing, absorbed it and made it it's own.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> (You may say thats' a "Fcking" thing and not a "Sleeping" one, but I always insist that they spend the night with me after sex).


Sod that! Kick them out! unless they are world class totty


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

jonniequest said:


> I've studied this for years . Just cos your not clued up, it doesn't mean I'm insane .what sounds more realistic ...the Israelites wandered the desert for 40 years and God floated over them by day it was a white cloud by night a pillar of fire ... it was a Damn ufo watch the link it shows the mountain burnt to this day rock melted to glass only stupid heat could do that .... the Sumerian txt talk of beings that came down from. The sky and used humans to mine gold ...we were slaves putty you don't k ow real history ..cos nearly every indigenous people do and have similar stories .. look up the dogon tribe and the Hopi Indian prophesies ... you will soon see your all living the delusion


You may have studied it for years, but asking the question: "what sounds more realistic"?

How about this - that things written in the bible(s) may not be:-

a) necessarily true

and / or

2) in any way accurate

It's just a book, written by people supposedly remembering stuff. And either translated in a rather shit way, probably countless times, or with some agenda, countless times.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

While I'm doing what was initially annoying me as I started reading this thread... in not answering the OP's question.. but still, it seems to have moved on now lol

Interesting how some seem to think the bible, Christianity, Islam, religion in general is the root of all evil.

Take a step back from it all and you realise that there is no big conspiracy behind religion (well most anyway).

The human brain is a very powerful and inquisitive thing. It needs to understand what is going on around it and apply order. In terms of the universe, matter, time etc there wasn't much knowledge until Einstein, even now we don't know the half of it, there are mind blowing discoveries still to be made. Even geological events and illnesses wouldn't have had a single logical explanation until recently.

Religion was just the science of their times. Religions were/are just a bi product of our need to understand, not to control.

Gods were worshiped long before any of the Abrahamic religions.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> I hear you. But my reckoning on that is that you don't really need an in-depth knowledge of the Bible for it to affect your morality.
> 
> I never read it until I was well into my 20s. I was never (and still am not) a church goer. I'm only a "Christian" on paper.
> 
> ...


This is such a crock.

The notion that without the influence of the bible and / or fear, morality would not prevail.

Bollocks, plain and simple.

Morality is a perfectly reasonable lesson for even a child to understand from a reasonably early age, without the need for aging texts, deities, or fear.

Mutuality is not unassailable, nor is it improbable.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

2004mark said:


> While I'm doing what was initially annoying me as I started reading this thread... in not answering the OP's question.. but still, it seems to have moved on now lol
> 
> Interesting how some seem to think the bible, Christianity, Islam, religion in general is the root of all evil.
> 
> ...


I don't buy that line I've bolded completely. I don't wholly disagree, I'd just put it like this - I think the attraction for many, for religion, historically, and now - maybe peoples' need to understand. However, I think religions were organised, predicated and proliferated by those who did so to control.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> But humans were eating, ****ting, writing, playing, sleeping, killing, hunting, making moral choices long before the bible was written, so some of what you are saying simply isn't correct. I may be being a little pedantic but my point still stands.


Of course they were. But when Christianity came along, if it found any of the ways that people did those things to be unacceptable, it got rid of them or changed the way that they did them.

I'm well aware of the origins of Christianity and it's history and yes, you could say that Paganism had a big influence on Western Civilisation. The Roman religions, Greek religions, Judaism, Babylonian myth, even Hinduism have also had a huge impact. But they did so *through* Christianity.

Look at it this way - I'm spending the night in tonight and I'm going to be watching TV. My TV is made up of lots of components - diodes, transistors, batteries, an LCD screen, etc. Some of those things were invented explicitly for my TV. Others were parts that the TV inventor took and adapted to make a TV with.

Now translate that over to religion. Christianity is the TV. All the components are what makes it a TV. Sure, some of them were around before the TV was even invented but on their own, they're not a TV. They all have to be put together.

And that's what Christianity did - it put everything together. All those old religions and bits of paganism. It doesn't mean that those things never existed. It just means that they weren't all formed to make one thing until Christianity came along.

And once they were all put together, *then* they started to influence the way we live. Prior to that, they may have influenced us as individual parts. But their true impact wasn't felt until they were all melded into one. And even then, those parts were changed, adapted or discarded as Christianity itself evolved.

A quick example: Even the language I'm writing in here, has been influenced by the Bible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12205084


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Jaff0 said:


> I don't buy that line I've bolded completely. I don't wholly disagree, I'd just put it like this - I think the attraction for many, for religion, historically, and now - maybe peoples' need to understand. However, I think religions were organised, predicated and proliferated by those who did so to control.


It's an interesting thought. I certainly don't doubt for a moment religions have been hijacked and used within societies to control. I just think that the need to understand has been the primary common motivator throughout time and religions. I would say, crackpot America type cults aside, but then again people do have some weird and wonderful ideas that they 100% believe even though they may appear completely absurd to the rest of us.

I guess my thinking behind the point is people shouldn't be scared of reading the bible or criticised for doing so. People will have different motivations for doing so, so to presume they are wasting their time as suggested by many is even more of a blinkered view IMO.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Morality is a perfectly reasonable lesson for even a child to understand from a reasonably early age, without the need for aging texts, deities, or fear.


Yeah?

Then why do we say "It's *wrong* to murder?" rather than "It's *right* not to murder"?

Morality is almost always based on the negative and not the positive. Fear is the tool used to promote that negative. It's always been about the carrot and the stick and the stick has *always* proven to be the more powerful of the two.

As Friedrich Nietzsche said: "Fear is the mother of morality"

Morality is nearly always drummed into a child by pointing out the negative to them, rather than the positive. To deny that fact is to deny the way that human nature works. When a kid is arguing with his friend we don't say "Be nice to Johnny and he'll like you". We always say "Be nice to Johnny or he won't like you". Morality is a tool used by the human species to co-exist. If we had no fear then morality would be defunct. It wouldn't be needed. You don't mend what doesn't need fixing. Pure logic.

So I'd say you're the one talking total and utter bollocks. Either that or you're living in some Utopia of unicorns and fairy dust where everyone loves each other and their farts smell of angels. It's certainly not on Planet Earth with the rest of us, anyway.


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

The Cheese, the ultimate authority on Life, The Universe and Everything. Dare to disagree with his opinion? Well, you better make sure you use the bold function and patronising analogies about televisions in your reply, otherwise you don't stand a chance!


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I've read parts of it, quite a lot of it actually, hard going in places, I actually enjoyed it as I went into it with eyes open, I believed it was a book of fiction beforehand and still do. Forming this opinion beforehand meant that I could stomach some of the more outlandish claims as, if I was thinking I was reading a book of non-fiction I would have binned it for spouting a load of bollocks.

@johnnya hit the nail on the head.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> Yeah?
> 
> Then why do we say "It's *wrong* to murder?" rather than "It's *right* not to murder"?
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from here but you make such broad sweeping statements. You say... "When a kid is arguing with his friend we don't say "Be nice to Johnny and he'll like you". We always say "Be nice to Johnny or he won't like you""... Do we?? I for one would be telling my daughter "be nice to such and such because and then they will be nice back to you", not be nice or they wont like you... that is ****ed up morality.

*"Just as there is no such thing as Christian physics or Muslim Algebra, we will see that there is no such thing as Christian or Muslim morality."*

*
- Sam Harris, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values *


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## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

This thread has made for some interesting reading.

I seem to share the views of all the atheists, never been into religion, never went to church, even through school when they try to brainwash you, I never really believed it.

But now, at 22, I just think it's a load of mince and I don't want my future children to be lied to.

I'll let them think for themselves.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Do we?? I for one would be telling my daughter "be nice to such and such because and then they will be nice back to you", not be nice or they wont like you... that is ****ed up morality.


I somehow doubt that. In the heat of the moment, if two kids are fighting, it's associated with a negative and our first instinct is to concentrate on that negative. It's just the way we are as humans. But heck. Maybe you would. I'm just throwing out a quick example. For the most part though, we're all about survival and to survive, humans concentrate on the worst aspects rather than the positive ones. It's the way we're primed - you can't ignore the negatives or there's the chance they'll bite you in the ass.

To get deep into the subject you've got to go into ethics and philosophy. That's why I like the Nietzsche quote. The dude was totally anti-religion but he had his sh!t together. He recognised that humans are nothing but animals at our base level and that all animals survive on fear.

As for your Harris quote. Again, you're throwing me something which I'm not entirely going to disagree with. It's like the Newton Law example someone gave earlier - morality was usurped by religion - once you own the bookshop, you get to say which books get sold. That doesn't make it right. It's just the way things are. Don't forget that for a couple thousand years until, very, very recently, this country was a Christian country. People lived and breathed the religion. One can't say that their morality wasn't influenced by Christianity and therefore one can't say that the moral values which they handed down to future generations wasn't similarly affected.4

So again, there's that base root (your quotation) - morality was around long before Christianity - but we have to accept that Christianity then took it, adapted it and spread it as if it was it's own.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> I somehow doubt that. In the heat of the moment, if two kids are fighting, it's associated with a negative and our first instinct is to concentrate on that negative. It's just the way we are as humans. But heck. Maybe you would. I'm just throwing out a quick example. For the most part though, we're all about survival and to survive, humans concentrate on the worst aspects rather than the positive ones. It's the way we're primed - you can't ignore the negatives or there's the chance they'll bite you in the ass.
> 
> To get deep into the subject you've got to go into ethics and philosophy. That's why I like the Nietzsche quote. The dude was totally anti-religion but he had his sh!t together. He recognised that humans are nothing but animals at our base level and that all animals survive on fear.
> 
> ...


Well I think we are arguing semantics  We do pretty much agree on everything.

I do however think you are epitomising the difference between actual morality and "biblical morality"... We do not have to base morality on the fear of the negative. It also works with the promise of the positive.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> I do however think you are epitomising the difference between actual morality and "biblical morality".


Biblical morality is mostly understood.

What we think is actually morally good is sometimes ambiguous and at other times, much more sinister.

A couple of years ago, I went to a theological lecture given by a Hebrew scholar on the subject of the Ten Commandments. I stole the guy's notes but unfortunately lost them, but there were some real eye-openers in there.

People say "Not murdering your fellow man didn't start with the Ten Commandments, it was around before". Fact is, it wasn't even around in the Ten Commandments. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" only refers to not killing your fellow tribesman. Everyone else was fair game. You could kill and rape all you liked as long as the guy you were killing wasn't another Hebrew!

And you can run through all the other Commandments as well and you'll find that they just about all have different meanings to the ones Christianity later applied to them (I remember most of them but it would be a long post to write them all out).

I believe that if there's a correlation between human morality and Biblical morality, it lies in the New Testament. It's certainly not in the Old.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Biblical morality is mostly understood.
> 
> What we think is actually morally good is sometimes ambiguous and at other times, much more sinister.
> 
> ...


tut tut tut.

thou shalt not steal!!


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Yeah?
> 
> Then why do we say "It's *wrong* to murder?" rather than "It's *right* not to murder"?


Your argument is word-play semantics?

Because it is wrong.

But all a child or anybody else needs to understand, in order to get that it is wrong, is quite simple - it's wrong to steal, because we wouldn't want somebody to steal from us - it's wrong to murder, because we wouldn't want to be murdered ourselves, or somebody we love / care about.



The Cheese said:


> Morality is almost always based on the negative and not the positive. Fear is the tool used to promote that negative. It's always been about the carrot and the stick and the stick has *always* proven to be the more powerful of the two.
> 
> As Friedrich Nietzsche said: "Fear is the mother of morality"


Fear, control, religion, are all closely linked, but they are NOT required for morality - merely predicated.

A young child can understand simple morality based on the notion of mutuality. Doesn't necessarily have to involved fear, fire and brimstone, a big ****ing stick, or threat of punishment - it just tends to be.

And it ain't me who's talking big, fat, sweaty bollocks. Not a bit of it. Plenty of people, who've never bought into, been indoctrinated by, or believe in, are capable of morality, in most simple terms, without the notion of a big ****ing stick, be that metaphorical, or literal, to enforce it. It's just simpler, easier, and more prevalent to do things by different means - the disconnect comes, because then, people skip a step, and do what you do - insist it's required.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

a.notherguy said:


> tut tut tut.
> 
> thou shalt not steal!!


Totally cool mate!!

'Cos "Thou Shalt Not Steal" has nothing to do with pilfering stuff.

It actually refers to stealing a man's freedom and enslaving him.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Totally cool mate!!
> 
> 'Cos "Thou Shalt Not Steal" has nothing to do with pilfering stuff.
> 
> It actually refers to stealing a man's freedom and enslaving him.


in that case, i shall reword it to 'its right to not kidnap' :thumbup1:


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> the disconnect comes, because then, people skip a step, and do what you do - insist it's required.


It's not an insistence that it's required. It's basic instinct. What you're talking about is a kind of altruism which doesn't exist. To prove the postive, there has to be an understanding of the negative.

As for the "plenty of people who've never been indoctrinated..."? I'm not talking about being indoctrinated into religion. Read the post you originally referred to and you will see that I specifically stated that I wasn't (and am not) involved in religion. But I was raised in a society originally based on "Christian values" and was therefore subject to some of that "rubbing off" onto me. I'm not talking about "Fire and Brimstone" from the pulpit. Sh!t. As a kid, you could turn on Saturday morning cartoons and see Scooby-f*cking-Doo trying to avoid getting sent to Hell. You don't need to be religious to be force-fed the concepts of Heaven and Hell. Popular culture was and still is immersed in that sort of thing. Books, TV, comics, games, etc. And to think that some of that doesn't rub off on a kid is naive.



> But all a child or anybody else needs to understand, in order to get that it is wrong, is quite simple - it's wrong to steal, because we wouldn't want somebody to steal from us - it's wrong to murder, because we wouldn't want to be murdered ourselves, or somebody we love / care about.


The root of all of that is Fear. There's no positive to concentrate on. You're not doing it because it's "right". You're making the moral choice because you're afraid of losing things.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> It's not an insistence that it's required. It's basic instinct. What you're talking about is a kind of altruism which doesn't exist. To prove the postive, there has to be an understanding of the negative.


I'm not talking about any kind of altruism - how verrrryy dare you.

Mutuality is nothing to do with altruism, quite the reverse - it's SELF interest. The notion that you shouldn't do something because you wouldn't want it done to you, is all about appealling to self-interest, not trying to appeal to people that they should have interest in others.

My point, all along, has been consistent - the notion that without either the bible, religion, or fear, are necessary components in order for morality to thrive is inane. Plenty of atheists manage to lead reasonably moral lives, without wanton degradation, and mange so without necessarily needing the concept of some big ****ing stick (be it metaphorical, or literal) as their moral compass.

Just because it's a convenient technique, doesn't mean it's the only way. For most of society, that are largely law abiding - are they so because they were brought up in a climate of fear, and effectively, largely, fearful of doing so and the consequences? Or are many adults reasonably moral and law abiding because they largely think it's a good thing all round (for society, not necessarily some supernatural imperative).


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Mutuality is nothing to do with altruism, quite the reverse - it's SELF interest. The notion that you shouldn't do something because you wouldn't want it done to you, is all about appealling to self-interest, not trying to appeal to people that they should have interest in others.


Again, that's based in Fear. The fear of not having the same bad stuff happening to you.

I don't disagree that morality could exist without the Bible btw. My argument is that it hasn't done so for the last two thousand years as the two have been inextricably tied together.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> People say "Not murdering your fellow man didn't start with the Ten Commandments, it was around before". Fact is, it wasn't even around in the Ten Commandments. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" only refers to not killing your fellow tribesman. Everyone else was fair game. You could kill and rape all you liked as long as the guy you were killing wasn't another Hebrew!


Do you really believe that? I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. Ancient Egyptian society and Chinese society pre-dated the bible, the Egyptians had something called the 42 principals, 2000 years before Moses! Do you really think you could kill whoever you wanted and it was all fair game? Obviously they didnt have the human rights of the modern age but come on! The bible has **** all to do with making people think killing was wrong..

I would take this moment to point out that I think any theological lecture is not worth attending. You may as well attend an astronomy lecture.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> Totally cool mate!!
> 
> 'Cos "Thou Shalt Not Steal" has nothing to do with pilfering stuff.
> 
> It actually refers to stealing a man's freedom and enslaving him.


Can you show me where god says he meant stealing freedom and not possessions?  In fact, can you show the proof that Moses didn't make all this **** up? Or that Moses even existed?


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

the book of bullshit


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

"I'm so clever I'm going to argue with everyone & use lots of word, I might not make much sense, but I feel that I have worth"

:lol:


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

@The Cheese are you suggesting that people didnt know right from wrong before the bible?

Perhaps once the bible had been published human kind lost all notion of livity and morality so needed the book to instill it back into us

Just wondering


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Breda said:


> @The Cheese are you suggesting that people didnt know right from wrong before the bible?


No. But there were differing views of what was right and what was wrong. Morality is no different from anything else and has evolved - some things which were considered right then might be considered wrong now.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Can you show me where god says he meant stealing freedom and not possessions?  In fact, can you show the proof that Moses didn't make all this **** up? Or that Moses even existed?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_steal#Jewish_interpretation

Significant voices of academic theologians (such as German Old Testament scholar A. Alt: Das Verbot des Diebstahls im Dekalog (1953)) suggest that commandment "you shall not steal" was originally intended against stealing people-against abductions and slavery, in agreement with the Talmudic interpretation of the statement as "you shall not kidnap" (Sanhedrin 86a).

As for Moses? Why? He's irrelevant. Doesn't matter whether he existed or not.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

the closest ive come to reading the bible is hoofing a line of coke of it in a travel lodge at a stag do in leeds a few years back lol


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## alchemystical (Jan 16, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> the closest ive come to reading the bible is hoofing a line of coke of it in a travel lodge at a stag do in leeds a few years back lol


So, like Jesus you were the "most high".


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

AnnesBollocks said:


> So, like Jesus you were the "most high".


Jesus doesn't have a patch on Mr T.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Do you really think you could kill whoever you wanted and it was all fair game? Obviously they didnt have the human rights of the modern age but come on! The bible has **** all to do with making people think killing was wrong..


In many ancient societies, as long as the guy you killed was an outsider, it didn't matter. Slaves were even more fair game (the Spartans used to hunt them for sport). And whilst we're on the subject of religion, don't forget human sacrifice! Life was cheap back then.

Tribal societies mate. They exist even today and some still act the same way as they did thousands of years ago.



> You may as well attend an astronomy lecture.


I think you mean "Astrology". 

Finally, who said anything about the Bible making people think killing was wrong? I'm saying that the Commandment doesn't say that.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_steal#Jewish_interpretation
> 
> Significant voices of academic theologians (such as German Old Testament scholar A. Alt: Das Verbot des Diebstahls im Dekalog (1953)) suggest that commandment "you shall not steal" was originally intended against stealing people-against abductions and slavery, in agreement with the Talmudic interpretation of the statement as "you shall not kidnap" (Sanhedrin 86a).
> 
> As for Moses? Why? He's irrelevant. Doesn't matter whether he existed or not.


That is just one interpretation, no more valid than me interpreting it as - you shouldn't steal things.

Apparently it was Moses that wrote down these "commandments" so its pretty relevant I would say. Commandments that were very similar to the 42 Egyptian ones...


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

latblaster said:


> "I'm so clever I'm going to argue with everyone & use lots of word, I might not make much sense, but I feel that I have worth"
> 
> :lol:


which verse is that out of the bible?


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> In many ancient societies, as long as the guy you killed was an outsider, it didn't matter. Slaves were even more fair game (the Spartans used to hunt them for sport). And whilst we're on the subject of religion, don't forget human sacrifice! Life was cheap back then.


"As long as they were an outsider" Like I said, this was all before the bible.



The Cheese said:


> I think you mean "Astrology".


Haha I did indeed! Doh!


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> That is just one interpretation, no more valid than me interpreting it as - you shouldn't steal things.
> 
> Apparently it was Moses that wrote down these "commandments" so its pretty relevant I would say. Commandments that were very similar to the 42 Egyptian ones...


And apparently it was "God" who wrote the Bible. I think that's a crock as well, don't you? So no, not relevant.

But if you pushed me and if I had to say he existed then he would have been an Egyptian prince who rebelled against the authorities. So it's no surprise that he'd have taken some Egyptian law with him. But like a lot of things, it was then adapted for the circumstances - the Hebrews would have changed from being enslaved city dwellers to nomadic tribesman so would have had different needs in laws and customs (eg: Leviticus - not eating pork or shellfish - no fridges in the desert and you don't want your rampaging army coming down with the squitters on the eve of battle so you ban those foods in the name of your god).

And sure, it's one interpretation but taken with historical context and weighing up the evidence, I'd say it's more likely than not. You only have to look at the number of people the Hebrews murdered and the cities they razed to the ground (archeological evidence is out there for some of that) to see that they really didn't give a sh1t about murdering their fellow man if he wasn't a member of their gang.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Again, that's based in Fear. The fear of not having the same bad stuff happening to you.


Not entirely - I don't think there's a natural consequence that you steal something, somebody steals from you - it's an appeal to self-interest, as well as mutuality.

There's no direct consequence - nothing direct to fear.



The Cheese said:


> I don't disagree that morality could exist without the Bible btw. My argument is that it hasn't done so for the last two thousand years as the two have been inextricably tied together.


There are plenty of cultures and countries entirely untouched by the bible, that have somehow muddled through and derived some degree of morality.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> And apparently it was "God" who wrote the Bible. I think that's a crock as well, don't you? So no, not relevant.
> 
> But if you pushed me and if I had to say he existed then he would have been an Egyptian prince who rebelled against the authorities. So it's no surprise that he'd have taken some Egyptian law with him. But like a lot of things, it was then adapted for the circumstances - the Hebrews would have changed from being enslaved city dwellers to nomadic tribesman so would have had different needs in laws and customs (eg: Leviticus - not eating pork or shellfish - no fridges in the desert and you don't want your rampaging army coming down with the squitters on the eve of battle so you ban those foods in the name of your god).
> 
> And sure, it's one interpretation but taken with historical context and weighing up the evidence, I'd say it's more likely than not. You only have to look at the number of people the Hebrews murdered and the cities they razed to the ground (archeological evidence is out there for some of that) to see that they really didn't give a sh1t about murdering their fellow man if he wasn't a member of their gang.


Again we are just arguing semantics  I think we pretty much agree on all of it haha

On a side note I just seen this today... this is was religion brings to the world these days.. The US is fascinating, one of the most advanced and most backward countries at the same time. This woman should be the next president


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

I once walked past Patrick Moore


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## alchemystical (Jan 16, 2013)

Mr_Socko said:


> Jesus doesn't have a patch on Mr T.


Smartest thing you've ever said mate.


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

The system will collapse and Marshall law will ensue ...not long after your burnt and how will the west be burnt in one hour , the sun is gona do it ....it's already started to go wild ... once pole shift occurs we have no magnetosphere bye bye Babylon... the sun will also rise in the west. It happened before last time it caused the great flood , this time will be by fire.


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

And you can say I'm crazy or what ever I couldn't give a **** , ask yourself this why has almost all major governments buying up your gold and why have they all built under ground bunkers will seed banks so big they go a be down there a while ... even the bible says it .are all the governments and scientists dickheads to or do they know something is coming that you don't ...you lot are the crazies not me , your bubbles are crazy ..pure sheeple ..


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> The system will collapse and Marshall law will ensue ...not long after your burnt and how will the west be burnt in one hour , the sun is gona do it ....it's already started to go wild ... once pole shift occurs we have no magnetosphere bye bye Babylon... the sun will also rise in the west. It happened before last time it caused the great flood , this time will be by fire.


So let me get this right... The sun will burn the west, Europe and America etc etc the most Christian states in the world and forget the others who are bowin down to "false gods"?

God hasnt thought that through very well

Again I will choose to ignore the rest of that post as it is utter nonsense


----------



## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

jonniequest said:


> And you can say I'm crazy or what ever I couldn't give a **** , ask yourself this why has almost all major governments buying up your gold and why have they all built under ground bunkers will seed banks so big they go a be down there a while ... even the bible says it .are all the governments and scientists dickheads to or do they know something is coming that you don't ...you lot are the crazies not me , your bubbles are crazy ..pure sheeple ..


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

The Cheese said:


> And apparently it was "God" who wrote the Bible. I think that's a crock as well, don't you? So no, not relevant.
> 
> But if you pushed me and if I had to say he existed then he would have been an Egyptian prince who rebelled against the authorities. So it's no surprise that he'd have taken some Egyptian law with him. But like a lot of things, it was then adapted for the circumstances - the Hebrews would have changed from being enslaved city dwellers to nomadic tribesman so would have had different needs in laws and customs (eg: Leviticus - not eating pork or shellfish - no fridges in the desert and you don't want your rampaging army coming down with the squitters on the eve of battle so you ban those foods in the name of your god).
> 
> And sure, it's one interpretation but taken with historical context and weighing up the evidence, I'd say it's more likely than not. You only have to look at the number of people the Hebrews murdered and the cities they razed to the ground (archeological evidence is out there for some of that) to see that they really didn't give a sh1t about murdering their fellow man if he wasn't a member of their gang.


Which is still going on ..Islam is living by them laws and end up being worldwide sharia law is God's laws ..


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

jonniequest said:


> And you can say I'm crazy or what ever I couldn't give a **** , ask yourself this why has almost all major governments buying up your gold and why have they all built under ground bunkers will seed banks so big they go a be down there a while ... even the bible says it .are all the governments and scientists dickheads to or do they know something is coming that you don't ...you lot are the crazies not me , your bubbles are crazy ..pure sheeple ..


Erm forgive me if I'm wrong but gold is used as part of the financial system, gives other countries reassurance that the country in question can pay its debts etc. and helps to keep the value of their currency high. No sinister motives (unless you class capitalism as sinister etc.) involved.


----------



## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Not entirely - I don't think there's a natural consequence that you steal something, somebody steals from you - it's an appeal to self-interest, as well as mutuality.
> 
> There's no direct consequence - nothing direct to fear.


But you're behaving yourself because there's a fear of those consequences. Something doesn't have to happen for you to be afraid of it. The fear of the chance of it occurring is enough. You can fear selflessly or your can fear selfishly, but either way, it's still fear.



> There are plenty of cultures and countries entirely untouched by the bible, that have somehow muddled through and derived some degree of morality.


I apologise. I should have made it clear that I was referring to the Christianised countries. But as an aside - take a look at those countries with different religions and you can find different relationships with morality. Some moral traditions in those countries, we would find reprehensible and totally abhorrent whereas they would feel the same about some of the aspects of our society.

What that shows is that there is no universal morality and it points to it being shaped by the cultures and traditions of each society. And a huge part of those cultures and traditions? Religion.


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Mr_Socko said:


> View attachment 137316


I don't get it serious I'm crazy cos I'm not blind .... all the government's USA , China and Russia , the UK and some of Europe have all built underground bunkers and used so much tax payers doe in doing so the system is ****ed , but what do they care they are going underground ..they just got to keep the steeple e entertained a little longer with syria...they k ow the sun is going weird and pole shift is coming or Jesus or what ever ... something is coming I can feel it , notice the buying up gold worldwide... stripping the surface . Cash for gold worldwide... go search u underground bunkers..China . USA Denver airport,ext


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

defdaz said:


> Erm forgive me if I'm wrong but gold is used as part of the financial system, gives other countries reassurance that the country in question can pay its debts etc. and helps to keep the value of their currency high. No sinister motives (unless you class capitalism as sinister etc.) involved.


ok you roll with that ... there is no gold in the federal reserve, it's empty ...it's all going underground the USA is printing notes like Mugabe it doesn't have the gold to back it up ...the elite are fleeing the Sinking ship, why did you think they got Obama as president , blame the black guy hahahahahahahahahah.....they all relocating to China the elite, America is done


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

Jonniequest, ill have two barrells of whatever it is your smoking.

Thanks


----------



## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

I've had the 'fortune' to get to know a lot of Christians and some of their beliefs are very amusing:

1. We are not animals, not even mammals. Eww, how offensive to even suggest such a thing! We are created in the image of God so therefore are not animals! What? We pee and poo just like animals? We have mammary glands just like other mammals.... not listening, stop this nonsense (traditional response to reasoned arguement with valid facts that oppose said religious viewpoint)!!

2. The world is roughly only 4000 years old, as determined by adding up the ages and genealogy of the characters in the old testament.

Point 2 above causes all sorts of issues and so:

2a. All geologists are completely incorrect, in pretty much everything they say.

2b. Dinosaurs didn't exist. God just put the bones in the ground. Why... they can't explain.

2c. Fossilisation is a lie. It doesn't happen slowly and no fossil is over 4000 years old. In fact, most fossils are from the great flood - regardless that fossils are found at different levels in the ground (point 2a very much in effect here).

3. The description in Genesis is factual, that each day is indeed only 24 hours long. Not all Christians take everything literally as written in the bible but so so many do.

Ah I could go on and on.

Shame, as there's a really nice side to some Christians, who are genuinely lovely, kind and selfless people.

My favourite take on Christianity:


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> I don't get it serious I'm crazy cos I'm not blind .... all the government's USA , China and Russia , the UK and some of Europe have all built underground bunkers and used so much tax payers doe in doing so the system is ****ed , but what do they care they are going underground ..they just got to keep the steeple e entertained a little longer with syria...they k ow the sun is going weird and pole shift is coming or Jesus or what ever ... something is coming I can feel it , notice the buying up gold worldwide... stripping the surface . Cash for gold worldwide... go search u underground bunkers..China . USA Denver airport,ext


I love a good conspiracy story!


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

defdaz said:


> My favourite take on Christianity:


Eddie Izzard is a genius!


----------



## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> But you're behaving yourself because there's a fear of those consequences. Something doesn't have to happen for you to be afraid of it. The fear of the chance of it occurring is enough. You can fear selflessly or your can fear selfishly, but either way, it's still fear.


I disagree - I don't think everybody behaves themselves purely out of fear - either of the consequences, or more appositely (given my suggestion of mutuality) that it may occur to you - there's no direct consideration, there. If it's because people consider it may happen to them, that's not fear, that's self-interest, and what that consideration has given people in terms of their moral compass.

If somebody, tacitly decides that it's wrong to do X because if somebody else did X to either them, or somebody they love or care about, that's not fear. That's consideration of the consequences and their behaviour having an impact that they may not previously have (necessarily) considered.

Fear would be, "If you do X, somebody with a big ****ing stick will hit you" or "If you do X, X or Y will happen to you" - that's different, though - the contention I'm making, is that there are some in society that think like that anyways, and the concept is just as valid as any other.

There are plenty of people in society, that don't buy into any theology, that don't do things in society because within themselves they've decided it's wrong. There may well be little chance they would get caught, and there may be no connection or consequence, whatsoever with the same thing happening to them.



The Cheese said:


> I apologise. I should have made it clear that I was referring to the Christianised countries. But as an aside - take a look at those countries with different religions and you can find different relationships with morality. Some moral traditions in those countries, we would find reprehensible and totally abhorrent whereas they would feel the same about some of the aspects of our society.
> 
> What that shows is that there is no universal morality and it points to it being shaped by the cultures and traditions of each society. And a huge part of those cultures and traditions? Religion.


I reject the notion that there's no universal morality. I'll accept that there's certainly some variances, and stages of evolution / development - but all the same, I suspect there rather are some universal / common aspects: murder, assault, theft, rape...

Yes, we can bicker around the edges, and say at various times in history, some things were tolerated a lot more - but in general, there are some core things to morality. Of course religion can have a significant bearing - but then what good is it, if it doesn't do that, and seek to control people.

There's plenty of atheists around, who are able to discern morality.


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> So let me get this right... The sun will burn the west, Europe and America etc etc the most Christian states in the world and forget the others who are bowin down to "false gods"?
> 
> God hasnt thought that through very well
> 
> Again I will choose to ignore the rest of that post as it is utter nonsense


Believe what you want we were deceived by the church , the church in the bible is the false prophet we are supposed to live like Muslims but the church set up Christianity where you worship Jesus and the church ...Jesus never wanted to be worshipped and he came to cordial the law of the prophets . Not to abolish them ... so all you who eat pork celebrate Christmas and all these pagan holidays are basically ****ed unless you here the truth and change ... off you actually read Tue bible it tells you everything including those In Israel are not the real Israelites either ....


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> I love a good conspiracy story!


Just check the I internet there are full of videos showing these bunker... even the news was talking about it

http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&source=android-browser&hl=en-GB&q=china+and+russia+building+bunkers+to+be+finished+by+2012&gws_rd=cr&ei=CUFMUoWNF6mc0wXrzYHQBg


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> Believe what you want we were deceived by the church , the church in the bible is the false prophet we are supposed to live like Muslims but the church set up Christianity where you worship Jesus and the church ...Jesus never wanted to be worshipped and he came to cordial the law of the prophets . Not to abolish them ... so all you who eat pork celebrate Christmas and all these pagan holidays are basically ****ed unless you here the truth and change ... off you actually read Tue bible it tells you everything including those In Israel are not the real Israelites either ....


You're a special guy Mr Quest, you really are


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> Just check the I internet there are full of videos showing these bunker... even the news was talking about it
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&source=android-browser&hl=en-GB&q=china+and+russia+building+bunkers+to+be+finished+by+2012&gws_rd=cr&ei=CUFMUoWNF6mc0wXrzYHQBg


Bunkers where built over 20 years ago during the cold war, when the world was paranoid about nuclear war. There are also videos of UFO's and Elvis.


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> You're a special guy Mr Quest, you really are


I can quote all parts of the bible to back it up ....it's all true you see unlike most Christians who listen to there priest who teaches them scrap they don't even preach Jesus is coming back..I chose to study history and read the actual bible .and it's Avery different story ..just try it oh and snake talking ... lol Adam and eve and the Apple was eve getting impregnated by fallen Angel Lucifer and making the two bloodlines of Cain and able .. off you read the parable of the sheet and the tares Jesus explains what is go a happen to the wicked bloodline ......The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Bunkers where built over 20 years ago during the cold war, when the world was paranoid about nuclear war. There are also videos of UFO's and Elvis.


Yeah your the sAme as the others ...the bible says your a scoffer , I take your kid d with a pinch of salt , but facts are this is coming... your knees will buckle as this unfolds


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> I can quote all parts of the bible to back it up ....it's all true you see unlike most Christians who listen to there priest who teaches them scrap they don't even preach Jesus is coming back..I chose to study history and read the actual bible .and it's Avery different story ..just try it oh and snake talking ... lol Adam and eve and the Apple was eve getting impregnated by fallen Angel Lucifer and making the two bloodlines of Cain and able .. off you read the parable of the sheet and the tares Jesus explains what is go a happen to the wicked bloodline ......The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
> 
> 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"


Thank you for your bible quotes but they validate nuthin


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Bunkers where built over 20 years ago during the cold war, when the world was paranoid about nuclear war. There are also videos of UFO's and Elvis.


Look at the link you deranged loon Obama just spent millions doing one under the white house and all the rest Russia and China was to be finished by 2012 '''enjoy


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

jonniequest said:


> I can quote all parts of the bible to back it up ....


Wonderful.

But you see, there's many who don't actually believe the bible is complete truth - which is putting it generously.

See it kinda takes that component of faith - which is kinda blind and trusting. Without that, it's just another book, like plenty of others, that may, or may not contain some truth, may, or may not contain some total bollocks, and may, or may not mean absolutely nothing to people who don't buy from that funky bakery.

Citing the bible <> proof of truth


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> Thank you for your bible quotes but they validate nuthin


Ok Breda when the soldiers come on the streets of uk and USA ... you can think of our conversation then when your pants are filling with ****..until then I'm done with trying to warn you lot


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> Ok Breda when the soldiers come on the streets of uk and USA ... you can think of our conversation then when your pants are filling with ****..until then I'm done with trying to warn you lot


And when they dont I'll leave you to do further research into fairy tales as to why not


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

jonniequest said:


> Ok Breda when the soldiers come on the streets of uk and USA ... you can think of our conversation then when your pants are filling with ****..until then I'm done with trying to warn you lot


So because you have all of this knowledge, how have you prepared for this and what will you be doing differently to us by having this prior knowledge when it happens (which it won't)?


----------



## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> I disagree - I don't think everybody behaves themselves purely out of fear - either of the consequences, or more appositely (given my suggestion of mutuality) that it may occur to you - there's no direct consideration, there.


There doesn't have to be direct consideration. Human Beings are conditioned to that fear. Just because it's not recognised overtly doesn't mean that it's not sitting there sub-consciously.

I believe we're just going to argue in circles over this though so I'll have to just agree to disagree.



> I reject the notion that there's no universal morality. I'll accept that there's certainly some variances, and stages of evolution / development - but all the same, I suspect there rather are some universal / common aspects: murder, assault, theft, rape...


Common aspects do not create a universal morality system. There are enough major differences between attitudes in morality to prove that there is no universal system. And I'm not talking about minor moral considerations. Attitudes to rape, assault, murder and pedophilia vary wildly throughout the world.



> There's plenty of atheists around, who are able to discern morality.


I don't deny that. What I would say is that their moral values have been shaped by the societies they live in and they have therefore been exposed to and shaped by religion.

To what degree is another story.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> Yeah your the sAme as the others ...the bible says your a scoffer , I take your kid d with a pinch of salt , but facts are this is coming... your knees will buckle as this unfolds












Like I said I will bet you £1000 that the world will not end on a date of your choosing.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> I don't deny that. What I would say is that their moral values have been shaped by the societies they live in and they have therefore been exposed to and shaped by religion.
> 
> To what degree is another story.


What was that Steven Weinberg quote? "Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.

But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."


----------



## Chris F (Jul 2, 2013)

Sheeeeeeeiittt, this has moved the fvck on since I left it last night!!!Space Aliens??? It was bad enough just trying to say religion is horsesh1te, but space???? I'm glad I ain't got the history channel, that sh1t will send you crazier than a sex starved priest.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> There doesn't have to be direct consideration. Human Beings are conditioned to that fear. Just because it's not recognised overtly doesn't mean that it's not sitting there sub-consciously.
> 
> I believe we're just going to argue in circles over this though so I'll have to just agree to disagree.


Accepted - but the problem you're having, is you can't climb down from the term fear.

It's simply bogus to assume that morality is all derived from it - it's not. It can be, but for many, is not a factor - either consciously or subconsciously.



The Cheese said:


> Common aspects do not create a universal morality system.


Who's talking about a "system" per se?

I'm just saying that in civilised societies, there's some basics that are pretty universal - and I listed them. Society - be it theist or largely secular.



The Cheese said:


> There are enough major differences between attitudes in morality to prove that there is no universal system. And I'm not talking about minor moral considerations. Attitudes to rape, assault, murder and pedophilia vary wildly throughout the world.


Some of those have varied wildly within the same countries, and evolved over time, to - and have evolved with **** all to do with religion - and in some cases, despite religion.



The Cheese said:


> I don't deny that. What I would say is that their moral values have been shaped by the societies they live in and they have therefore been exposed to and shaped by religion.
> 
> To what degree is another story.


We've already established that that's far from being universal - morality was possible in cultures without any significant religions or supernatural influences.


----------



## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Who's talking about a "system" per se?
> 
> 'm just saying that in civilised societies, there's some basics that are pretty universal - and I listed them. Society - be it theist or largely secular.


a) If you're not talking about a system, then you're over-generalising. You may as well just say that different societies have morals and leave it at that. All you're saying is that morals exist elsewhere. Nobody is going to dispute that.

B) Even your basics vary wildly. Like I said: attitudes to rape, murder, pedophilia, etc vary wildly.



> Some of those have varied wildly within the same countries, and evolved over time, to - and have evolved with **** all to do with religion - and in some cases, despite religion.


Again, you're arguing in circles. You're saying that on the one hand there are universal morals but on the other that they vary. They're either universal or they're not. You can't have both.



> We've already established that that's far from being universal - morality was possible in cultures without any significant religions or supernatural influences.


As there's never been a society which has been free from either of those criteria your claim is without substance.


----------



## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

Crying with laughter reading @jonniequest posts.

What a mad ****.


----------



## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

Cactus87 said:


> As a side note these are the ages that the patriarchs in the bible LIVED to see...
> 
> Patriarch Age
> 
> ...


Interesting .....................................

did they lift though ? :lol:


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)




----------



## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> There are also videos of UFO's and Elvis.


Together?? that would explain that number one from a few years ago :tongue:


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> And when they dont I'll leave you to do further research into fairy tales as to why not


The preparations listed include; Nine-week training course for UN Peacekeepers in CONUS to learn Urban Warfare, English, and US weapons systems beginning 4th week of July for 386,000 troops to be completed by October 1st;

$11 million in antibiotics to be delivered to FEMA region III by October 1st ordered by CDC;

FEMA purchase orders for over $14.2 million for MREs and heater meals to be delivered to Region III by October 1st;

FEMA purchase orders for 22 million pouches of emergency water to be delivered to region III by October 1st;

FEMA purchase orders for $13.6 million for MREs and heater meals to be delivered to Austin by October 1st;

2800 MRAPs must be delivered to DHS by October 1st;

What do you think they are doing then building a new mcdonalds

http://www.knowthelies.com/node/9301

And here video .... the bible says it's go a happen and it is , guess it ain't fairy tales after all


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

tioc said:


> did they lift though ? :lol:


Course they did.



\ said:


> Book of Benchpress Chapter 5 Verse 4:
> 
> And verily Noah did crank out 5 reps of 140kg and he was hench.


----------



## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> The preparations listed include; Nine-week training course for UN Peacekeepers in CONUS to learn Urban Warfare, English, and US weapons systems beginning 4th week of July for 386,000 troops to be completed by October 1st;
> 
> $11 million in antibiotics to be delivered to FEMA region III by October 1st ordered by CDC;
> 
> ...


I'd prefer if it was a KFC


----------



## luther1 (Jul 31, 2011)

@jonniequest

What's with the rifle,are you a trigger man and a bible brasher? Look more like the spud gun type to me


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## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

luther1 said:


> @jonniequest
> 
> What's with the rifle,are you a trigger man and a bible brasher? Look more like the spud gun type to me


Should have heard his antics in the thread that got him banned mate. BRB, will find it

edit

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-conversation/238383-just-random-thing-annoyed-me-work.html


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Bashy said:


> Crying with laughter reading @jonniequest posts.
> 
> What a mad ****.


Lol Il be eating venesen whilst your martial flawed and crying for help we will see who is the mad ****, funny though I know but it is unfolding...


----------



## luther1 (Jul 31, 2011)

resten said:


> Should have heard his antics in the thread that got him banned mate. BRB, will find it
> 
> edit
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-conversation/238383-just-random-thing-annoyed-me-work.html


Prob still lives with his mum and shoots pigeons out of his bedroom window


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> The preparations listed include; Nine-week training course for UN Peacekeepers in CONUS to learn Urban Warfare, English, and US weapons systems beginning 4th week of July for 386,000 troops to be completed by October 1st;
> 
> $11 million in antibiotics to be delivered to FEMA region III by October 1st ordered by CDC;
> 
> ...


You are awesome!


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

luther1 said:


> @jonniequest
> 
> What's with the rifle,are you a trigger man and a bible brasher? Look more like the spud gun type to me


Just done some shooting g in Vegas .. why do I look spudgun type huh cos my body has not had enough steds , I've seen someone shot ,stabbed, drown, on fire ... what have you seen a bit of road rage run along hero ... the guy was asking about the bible, and I was tellin


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## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> Just done some shooting g in Vegas .. why do I look spudgun type huh cos my body has not had enough steds , I've seen someone shot ,stabbed, drown, on fire ... what have you seen a bit of food rage run along hero ... the guy was asking about the bible, and I was tellin


That DEFINITELY makes you an awesome person.

I'd love to snuggle with you


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

luther1 said:


> Prob still lives with his mum and shoots pigeons out of his bedroom window


Your a dick , got my own gaff , three kids , a nice family shot some nice guns when I went Vegas what have you shot daddies gun at the range


----------



## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

jonniequest said:


> Lol Il be eating venesen whilst your martial flawed and crying for help we will see who is the mad ****, funny though I know but it is unfolding...


Not tried the 'venesen' that you speak of, what's it like?


----------



## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> , I've seen someone shot ,stabbed, drown, on fire ...


All at the same time.

Word!


----------



## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

Every forum needs a survivalist conspiricy freak once and a while, I wanna know your views on 9/11 and Waco johnnie please

oh by the way its venison, venesen sounds like a STD.


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

resten said:


> That DEFINITELY makes you an awesome person.
> 
> I'd love to snuggle with you


Doesn't mAke me awesome what so ever , wouldn't have liked to of seen any of it ... but life is such ... I was mearly putting into perspective for the hard man above that a zoid riddled body doesn't make you a man


----------



## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> Doesn't mAke me awesome what so ever , wouldn't have liked to of seen any of it ... but life is such ... I was nearly putting into perspective for so if boy that a zoid riddled body doesn't make you a man


Having respect for women makes you far more of a man.

Still something you lack, entirely.


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

The Cheese said:


> All at the same time.
> 
> Word!


No different people


----------



## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

jonniequest said:


> Your a dick , got my own gaff , three kids , a nice family shot some nice guns when I went Vegas what have you shot daddies gun at the range


does your family share your views on the world johnnie ?


----------



## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

tioc said:


> Every forum needs a survivalist conspiricy freak once and a while, I wanna know your views on 9/11 and Waco johnnie please
> 
> Anyone who tries to go against the system is a target ... Waco guy was a nut but they massacred them..as for 911 a Saudi set up to start the war against Islam to conquer The middle east
> 
> oh by the way its venison, venesen sounds like a STD.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> Doesn't mAke me awesome what so ever , wouldn't have liked to of seen any of it ... but life is such ... I was nearly putting into perspective for so if boy that a zoid riddled body doesn't make you a man


Anyone ever told you you look like Private Pyle?


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## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

The Cheese said:


> Anyone ever told you you look like Private Pyle?


This is my weapon, this is my gun, this ones for killing , this ones for sticking in that bit of liver i warm behind the radiator of my bunker :lol:


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

tioc said:


> does your family share your views on the world johnnie ?


My kids are to young for my views they will be educated accordingly and the misses has woke up big time as are a lot of people... I'm not forcing my views on no one but I do tell folk , they all think I'm mad to but the last few years they are like you have a point and I'm right about a lot of things .... people are opening g there eyes most won't ...


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

resten said:


> Having respect for women makes you far more of a man.
> 
> Still something you lack, entirely.


I have respect for my woman my mother and daughter the rest I will do iff they do for me ...


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## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> I have respect for my woman my mother and daughter* the rest I will do off they do for me ..*.


Haven't got a clue what that means


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

resten said:


> Haven't got a clue what that means


As in for other women iff I hold a door open you expect a thank you back iff not I would t do it again they won't be respected by me ..mutual respect, I don't have to explain to you anyhow


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

resten said:


> Haven't got a clue what that means


It means he's a batsh!t crazy mofo and will smoke your ass if you catch him in the latrines after lights out.


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## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> As in for other women off I hold a door open you expect a thank you back iff not I would t do it again they won't be respected by me ..mutual respect, I don't have to explain to you anyhow


http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/arts-and-humanities/english-language/index.htm


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

resten said:


> http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/arts-and-humanities/english-language/index.htm


http://www.deanmorriscards.co.uk/images/medium/coasters/DMT-12_MED.jpg


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> http://www.deanmorriscards.co.uk/images/medium/coasters/DMT-12_MED.jpg


FFS tell us something we don't know.

Resten holds the world record for most consecutive w*nks in an hour (53). He's proud of it.

And we of him.


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## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

jonniequest said:


> Your a dick , got my own gaff , three kids , a nice family shot some nice guns when I went Vegas what have you shot daddies gun at the range


I would normally say the best bet is to suck on the end of one of them guns and pull the trigger but I quite enjoy reading the ramblings of a loon.

As you were.


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## tioc (Jul 16, 2013)

How johnnie sees his place in the world



Bur sadly how it truely is



although I really wanna post this just cause I can


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2013)

defdaz said:


> I've had the 'fortune' to get to know a lot of Christians and some of their beliefs are very amusing:
> 
> 1. We are not animals, not even mammals. Eww, how offensive to even suggest such a thing! We are created in the image of God so therefore are not animals! What? We pee and poo just like animals? We have mammary glands just like other mammals.... not listening, stop this nonsense (traditional response to reasoned arguement with valid facts that oppose said religious viewpoint)!!
> 
> ...


mine


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

tioc said:


> How johnnie sees his place in the world
> 
> View attachment 137324
> 
> ...


Lol I'm just a normal family guy who is gona look out for his kids and family when the **** hits the fan which is anyyyyyyyyy time now , but I would live off the land off I could choose again , better than this society is now , but that's the whole point of God burning it into the floor...we messed up , wont go into why as God and his rules no longer fit into western life and I'm end up most likely be banned off here ...


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

jonniequest said:


> Lol I'm just a normal family guy


Normal?


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

what are your thoughts on god telling his priests to have as much sex with young boys as they possibly could Jonnie?


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> what are your thoughts on god telling his priests to have as much sex with young boys as they possibly could Jonnie?


The bible says the church is the false prophet they are all going to hell .....


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

jonniequest said:


> The bible says the church is the false prophet they are all going to hell .....


Wigan?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Pier.


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

The Cheese said:


> Normal?


Totally normal pal , as this unfolds you will tell yourself that to ..I like to go pub with the lads and get drunk like a normal bloke off you can't see all this society and world going to pot you really got to question your mind


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> Wigan?


Hahahaha no they are burnt , only the good will survive , the film knowing at the end is pretty much how it's gona be ... and who ever made that film has read a motor the bible and the book of enoch ..good film


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

do you ever cut yourself then cry whilst masturbating jonnie? to get rid of evil spirits?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> The bible says the church is the false prophet they are all going to hell .....


Please show me the chapter and verse so I can spray it on every church I see


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> do you ever cut yourself then cry whilst masturbating jonnie? to get rid of evil spirits?


Lol don't be stupid .... sin brings negative spirits oh and drugs to get rid you have to get back on track with god..hence most of the world's mental folks are in the west as the bible says .

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power, and the earth was lightened with his glory.

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, 'Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and became a habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


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## Bora (Dec 27, 2011)

think i read half the first page in jail, then it was rec... didnt get through it, but i think i will read it one day


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> Please show me the chapter and verse so I can spray it on every church I see


There is no chapter or verse you have to figure it out .. even those In The church are deceived ... but facts are they don't follow God's laws and they worship Jesus .

Jesus only came for the Israelites and he didn't come to be worshipped your breaking 3 commandments just there ... 1 , 2 and 4 ''' game over .there is much more like Rome is the final antichrist did you know the Vatican's observatory is called LUCIFER..and it has infrared imaging and always pointing it to Orion belt ... they know what's coming


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## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

barry2013 said:


> Thinking about reading the bible some time.
> 
> Any readers?


 Nope. I don't read works of complete and utter nonsense. Good day.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> a) If you're not talking about a system, then you're over-generalising. You may as well just say that different societies have morals and leave it at that. All you're saying is that morals exist elsewhere. Nobody is going to dispute that.


That's not all I'm saying. I'm saying that different societes do have some universal / common morals - murder / killing, stealing, assaulting.

That there can be some variance in some, isn't entirely unpredictable. Attitudes towards things like age of consent, and things like rape and other similar crimes, as well as things like racism, have varied in this country over the centuries, too. There's some degree of evolution to it - and religion? It had **** all to do with it.

Politics has had a bigger influence to some of these things than religion has. In at least some cases, it's religion itself that has to get it's own house in order.

There's a point your missing - or seemingly wishing to hand-wave over. Largely, there is some commonality / universality in morals, and it's not over-generalising. Things like murder, theft, assault, tend to be universally accepted as immoral and crimes. And there's probably some others too. I'm not just saying that morals exist everywhere - I'm saying some crimes are universally accepted. That there's some variance in others, shouldn't be suprising - after all, some of those have varied, greatly, over time in our own country.



The Cheese said:


> Again, you're arguing in circles. You're saying that on the one hand there are universal morals but on the other that they vary. They're either universal or they're not. You can't have both.


Bollocks. And yes I can have both. I doubt you'll find anywhere in the world, that's considered civilised, that doesn't have a very similar core of key things perceived as immoral - like murder, like theft, like assault. And yes, there's some degree of variance in other things seen as immoral.

So yes, I bloody well can have both.



The Cheese said:


> As there's never been a society which has been free from either of those criteria your claim is without substance.


That's an bold, sweeping claim right there - not sure I'd have quite that bravado... I have in mind a certain Roman empire, which, whilst I'm not about to claim didn't rule over people who were totally without religion, or any supernatural superstitions, in and of itself, the Roman empire didn't seem predicated on religious doctrine nor a supernatural imperative.

So... my claim has at least some basis, your claim is based on circular logic.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

jonniequest said:


> ....the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird...


That's happened to me - and it's not right - foul spirits and a hateful bird with an unclean cage.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)




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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

jonniequest said:


> Lol don't be stupid .... sin brings negative spirits oh and drugs to get rid you have to get back on track with god..hence most of the world's mental folks are in the west as the bible says .
> 
> And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power, and the earth was lightened with his glory.
> 
> And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, 'Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and became a habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


sorry to hear about your mental illness mate


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> sorry to hear about your mental illness mate


Hahahahahahahahahah cheers bud !!!


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> There is no chapter or verse you have to figure it out .. even those In The church are deceived ... but facts are they don't follow God's laws and they worship Jesus .
> 
> Jesus only came for the Israelites and he didn't come to be worshipped your breaking 3 commandments just there ... 1 , 2 and 4 ''' game over .there is much more like Rome is the final antichrist did you know the Vatican's observatory is called LUCIFER..and it has infrared imaging and always pointing it to Orion belt ... they know what's coming


But the bible says the church is tbe false prophet :confused1:

Please tell me you're not makin this up Jonnie!

Jesus was sent to save mand kind mate not the Israelites alone... which by the way are black people so either way you're a dead man

Lucifer is a nice name the Vaticans Conservatory is a lucky guy


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)




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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Milky said:


>




He's winking and giving the thumbs up, right to you, Milky - that's not in your imagination.

Not so much for this, though...


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Bollocks. And yes I can have both. I doubt you'll find anywhere in the world, that's considered civilised, that doesn't have a very similar core of key things perceived as immoral - like murder, like theft, like assault. And yes, there's some degree of variance in other things seen as immoral.
> 
> So yes, I bloody well can have both.


Civilised? By whose standards? How about Honour Killings? What about sexual relations with children? They occur in plenty of countries. Those "core key of things" aren't perceived as immoral in those societies. How about rape or sexual assault? Look up the statistics - in some countries, the majority of men admit to taking part in those things. They don't see it as immoral. That sh!ts all over your statement, I'm afraid. So no. However you paint it - you can't have both.



> That's an bold, sweeping claim right there - not sure I'd have quite that bravado... I have in mind a certain Roman empire, which, whilst I'm not about to claim didn't rule over people who were totally without religion, or any supernatural superstitions, in and of itself, the Roman empire didn't seem predicated on religious doctrine nor a supernatural imperative.


Then you know nothing of the Roman Empire. Religion played a massive part in it's daily life. Some of the emperors themselves were deemed to be gods. F*ck me. It even morphed into the Holy Roman Empire once it's old gods were done away with. How much more religion orientated can you get?


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)




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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Civilised? By whose standards? How about Honour Killings? What about sexual relations with children? They occur in plenty of countries.


They occur in this country, too - and as a whole, our society, and most of the world views them as immoral.

And surely, it goes without saying that societies that actually consider those things as NOT immoral, are societies I'd consider civilised.



The Cheese said:


> Then you know nothing of the Roman Empire. Religion played a massive part in it's daily life.


People who lived under the Roman empire may well have practiced religion, and believed in some big dude in the sky with a beard - that's not what I said, though. The Roman empire wasn't predicated on, or run under the auspices, or controlled by religion. Hell they did their level best to do away with chistianity.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Ah religion again......


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> The Roman empire wasn't predicated on, or run under the auspices, or controlled by religion. Hell they did their level best to do away with chistianity.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Go away and read.

Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_ancient_Rome


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)




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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> But the bible says the church is tbe false prophet :confused1:
> 
> Please tell me you're not makin this up Jonnie!
> 
> ...


The Faith of the Canaanite Woman

&#8230;22And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed." 23But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us." 24But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

25But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, "Lord, help me!" 26And He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." 27But she said, "Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."&#8230;

You see the house of isreal was to teach the gentiles Jesus was sent to them , but did venture In to gentile places and helped some also ... and remember Jesus said follow the ten commandments and he also says salvation is for gentiles also ... but most are so lost they go a be wiped as for your threat that I'm a dead man my aim is only to save my family out of trouble and make it to judgement day the bible says not to fear the first death but the second so your threat means nothing to me ... as for there being white Israelites ... the seed passes down through the father off they were to breed with white women and so on for a few generations you Will have whites .... i thé irish slaves were bred alot with thé blacks .... and i have woke up for some reason i bave been guided and saved from death à couple of times....there is reason for everything and i beleive it was good , everyone will want to kill even the queran says it so the time will be bad I know but the bible says you have the spirit life and its this you want worry about the second death


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Milky said:


>


I'll see that, and raise you:-


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

jonniequest said:


> The Faith of the Canaanite Woman
> 
> &#8230;22And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed." 23But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us." 24But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
> 
> You see the house of isreal was to teach the gentiles Jesus was sent to them , but did venture In to gentile places and helped some also ... and remember Jesus said follow the ten commandments and he also says salvation is for ventricles also ... but most are so lost they go a be wiped as for your threat that I'm a dead man my aim is only to save my family out of trouble and make it to judgement day the bible says not to fear the first death but the second so your threat means nothing to me ... as for there being white Israelites ... the seed passes down through the father off they were to breed with white women and so on for a few generations you Will have whites .... i thé irish slaves were bred alot with thé blacks .... and i have woke up for some reason i bave been guided and saved from death à couple of times....there is reason for everything and i beleive it was good


I see this has been pillaged from another man made book but fail to see howthis validates your argument


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> You couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Go away and read.
> 
> Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_ancient_Rome


Oh for ****s sake don't cite wikipedia on me - is that as good as it gets?

I already said that plenty of Romans probably had religion in their life. That's NOT the point. The empire itself - the top down running of it was NOT predicated on a religion, or controlled by one. It was tolerated in some circumstances, and in others persecuted.


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

Breda said:


> I see this has been pillaged from another man made book but fail to see howthis validates your argument


Read it again it's been edited Damn predictive txt on kindle is shyte ...


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Oh for ****s sake don't cite wikipedia on me - is that as good as it gets?
> 
> I already said that plenty of Romans probably had religion in their life. That's NOT the point. The empire itself - the top down running of it was NOT predicated on a religion, or controlled by one. It was tolerated in some circumstances, and in others persecuted.


You've got to be joking. It doesn't matter if it's Wikipedia or not. Go Google "Religion and Rome" and view one of the many thousands of pages on the subject. Their whole system was based on religion. Even their city was founded by their gods. The Romans wouldn't take a sh*t without consulting their gods first.

Tolerated? Seriously? Top down running? They made their emperors into living gods ffs.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> You've got to be joking. It doesn't matter if it's Wikipedia or not. Go Google "Religion and Rome" and view one of the many thousands of pages on the subject. Their whole system was based on religion. Even their city was founded by their gods. The Romans wouldn't take a sh*t without consulting their gods first.
> 
> Tolerated? Seriously? Top down running? They made their emperors into living gods ffs.


I'll clarify - and seeing as though wikipedia seems de rigeur...

Roman religion was thus *practical and contractual*, based on the principle of do ut des, "I give that you might give." Religion depended on knowledge and the correct practice of prayer, ritual, and sacrifice, *not on faith or dogma*, although Latin literature preserves learned speculation on the nature of the divine and its relation to human affairs. Even the most skeptical among Rome's intellectual elite such as Cicero, who was an augur, saw religion as a source of social order.

See the bits I've highlighted? Point being, in modern times, when we talk about religion in society, we're largely talking about those with faith, and those applying and ruled by dogma. Whilst religion was notionally a part of Roman society, the impact on how it was run, was not on faith or a supernatural imperative - it was more rules and order thing.

It wasn't so much supernatural deity with a big ****ing (metaphorical) stick, more about ritual and practice - think aboout catholic church services - especially those in Latin - then watch and listen - people do all that back and forth, responses and ritual - and they're almost robot like - they learn and practice it by rote, largely - there's precious little actual thought and meaning behind it - is mostly all ritual.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@jonniequest

I don't mean this to be personal..but you are nucking futs.


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

latblaster said:


> @jonniequest
> 
> I don't mean this to be personal..but you are nucking futs.


Hahahaha cheers pal


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## ianm2585 (Mar 14, 2010)

im just waiting for the book jesus the early years


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## jonniequest (Sep 29, 2010)

ianm2585 said:


> im just waiting for the book jesus the early years


He apparently spent his early years with the essenes who taught him his ways and teachings


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ianm2585 said:


> im just waiting for the book jesus the early years


it's not bad mate. he goes off the rails a bit and gets in with the wrong crowd. a real story of rags to riches although there is a sickening chapter involving a goat, four shepherds, a sharpened shovel and a bowl of grapes. not for the faint hearted


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

He apparently went to live in India after coming back to life. Any truth in that jonnie. It was Srinigar I think.


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