# Slin pre workout



## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Following on from a thread in the steroids section regarding pre workout slin.

I know TinyTom has mentioned this before so wanted to know who is using this method, and how and what result have you noticed vs just post workout?


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2009)

this should be interesting.

I think it is a decent way of using it especially if your doing higher volume. I will be doing it for a while. You just have to keep the carbs going down your throat because if you go hypo badly it may be too late and by the time your back to normal the work out could be ruined! If you ever watch Milos train his guys he has them doing this and they do things like eat baby food between sets!


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## Tiger81 (May 4, 2007)

Sounds dangerous!

better than pwo slin?


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## Hardc0re (Apr 21, 2009)

Does anyone carry glucagon injection's when they go to the gym? I just thought slin before a workout might be asking for trouble.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I have glucagon, but dont carry it around with me. Ive used slin pre-workout too and it was excellent. Incredible pumps.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

I`ve used pre workout slin a fair few times. Never had any signs of going hypo... Used to use 10iu with say 100g carbs, not always fast carbs sometimes oats etc... Obviously had been eating carbs during the day so carb levels were high anyway. Pumps were great... Take a lucozade if feel your going hypo then guzzle it down.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Whenever Ive used Pre WO I always combine it with GH.

I used to do 5iu Slin and 5iu GH about 30 minutes prior with a vitargo and whey shake.

Does give you incredible pumps but also makes you very tired and sleepy.

I did gain from it but its not something for the beginner

You need to make sure that your nutrient timiung is spot on or you are really running a risk because a workout will deplete you massively of glycogen and so will the slin shot.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

would you also shoot slin again pwo or would there be no need to by then?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

weeman said:


> would you also shoot slin again pwo or would there be no need to by then?


I would say that there is no need. There have been a few animal studies where they gave them slin, aminos and measured the change in protein synthesis. One of the findings was that the protein availability is the major limiting factor once a single slin dose has been administered. Slin clears nutrients VERY effectively from the bloodstream.

J


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

weeman said:


> would you also shoot slin again pwo or would there be no need to by then?


i was doing before and after.

4.30pm 10iu slin, 100g carbs, 50g whey

5-6pm train

6.30pm 10iu slin, 100g carbs, 50g whey

really full doing this


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

The closest I have used slin to a workout is about an hour and half with my meal and a protein/WMS/Oats drink. So I have plenty of carbs in me, and I do get great pumps.

What time are most taking the pre workout slin shot? an hour? half an hour? 5 minutes?


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

TaintedSoul said:


> The closest I have used slin to a workout is about an hour and half with my meal and a protein/WMS/Oats drink. So I have plenty of carbs in me, and I do get great pumps.
> 
> What time are most taking the pre workout slin shot? an hour? half an hour? 5 minutes?


30 mins


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

I might have to play around with this moving to a 30 minus before workout jab. I'll start from the beginning and slowly ramp it up to get carbs right.

What is everyone having in the pre workout shake/meal?

I see massive monster is doing :

4.30pm 10iu slin, 100g carbs, 50g whey

And TonyTom used to do :

5iu Slin and 5iu GH about 30 minutes prior with a vitargo and whey shake.

Anyone else? KingProp would love to know what you did?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> i was doing before and after.
> 
> 4.30pm 10iu slin, 100g carbs, 50g whey
> 
> ...


The problem with this is you have the first jab and then you have a second jab 30 minutes after the second peak. I think the peak on fast acting is 90 minutes later after ajb or first peak?

If I did this approach I'd be having post shake/jab within 5 minutes of finishing last exercise so open to doubling up and possibly going hypo?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

im pretty sure if you have a pre workout jab you dont have a pwo jab as well as like you said the 2 will overlap causing blood sugar spikes etc.

From what i have read if jab 30 mins before take 10g carbs per iu with jab in the form of a shake. i would have half oats and half malto or a banana with some protein bcaa/creatine.

then during workout supp some malto in juice or a lucozade. from what i have read this again wants to be 7-10g carbs per iu of slin with some bcaa in if can afford it and glut.

then a pwo meal 30-45 mins after training. lean protein and low gi carbs.

obviously these numbers are very individual but better to start higher and work your way down. also the glut/creatine/bcaa isnt a must but alot of people i have seen doing this always include these. also i havnt heard of any1 doing this more than 4 x per week due to the hugh amount of carbs/cals that may be taken in during training.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

Good post Hilly. That is virtually spot on... I only did a pwo jab also because I was taking in 250g total carbs from pre and post workout sources and that easily offset 20iu of slin...


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

Remember i all depends on the type of slin you are using, i used actrapid and it did just that, 30 mins onset so use wisely, also slin without gh is to me is 50% compared to slin an gh together (remember always use caution with *slin*)


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

I agree, depends on the type of slin and that nutrient timing HAS to be spot on. We had to hold down our mate Adam in the gym once as he messed it up and went a bit mental like. Tried to fight us off etc. Scarey! He aint small. Or pretty.

Im always on the low side especially pre-workout. 4ius humalog 30 mins before training did all i needed it to.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

to be honest this seems stupid to me, i am type one diabetic and have to inject for survival purposes and theres no way I would use it in this format.

is the benefit it gives really worth the danger it poses? lets be honest GH, test etc aren't going to cause immediate problems but screwing this up would potentially put you in a coma.

do you guys have such blunted natural insulin reponses? surely if you dont have any glycemic control issues your body would naturally produce it to counter any ingested carbs anyway?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

glen danbury said:


> to be honest this seems stupid to me, i am type one diabetic and have to inject for survival purposes and *theres no way I would use it in this format.*
> 
> is the benefit it gives really worth the danger it poses? lets be honest GH, test etc aren't going to cause immediate problems but screwing this up would potentially put you in a coma.
> 
> do you guys have such blunted natural insulin reponses? surely if you dont have any glycemic control issues your body would naturally produce it to counter any ingested carbs anyway?


You wouldnt use it full stop or you wouldnt use it pre workout?


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

TaintedSoul said:


> You wouldnt use it full stop or you wouldnt use it pre workout?


sorry - preworkout - If I wasnt to use it full stop i would die personally 

but personally I dont think the use of slin is a good idea full stop - obvioulsy I am speaking from a point of negligable experience with any ''assistance'' but from my point of view the benefit to risk ratio of slin is so far towards the negative i just cannot understand the interest in its use.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> to be honest this seems stupid to me, i am type one diabetic and have to inject for survival purposes and theres no way I would use it in this format.
> 
> is the benefit it gives really worth the danger it poses? lets be honest GH, test etc aren't going to cause immediate problems but screwing this up would potentially put you in a coma.
> 
> do you guys have such blunted natural insulin reponses? surely if you dont have any glycemic control issues your body would naturally produce it to counter any ingested carbs anyway?


Altho i agree to an extent i think as long as some1 has gthe experience using slin and takes the necessary precautions i dont see it being a danger.

Any1 who is toying with slin should first use it pwo with a blood sugar monitor and do several checks over the next 2 hours to see how they react to a specific dose and how many carbs they need to cover them.

then if they choose to do this pre workout they should start with the initial low dose used pwo and take the amount of carbs required to cover as before. they then should repeat this amount of carbs in a carb drink to be drank during training.

They should also have more carbs on hand in the form of glucose tablets/sports drinks etc.

this is of course only needed when 1 achieves a level were it is necessary to be using slin anyway. IMO as long as one is properly prepared and has done their research then the benefits outweigh the dangers from what i have read and seen as far as results go.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

It is not the risk per se with taking preworkout, moreso the problem with maintaining sufficient blood glucose to do the workout.

I don't think that slin is a problem if one's diet is clean and one knows their blood sugar response to all the various combinations of events that can occur. I believe that my knowledge of my blood sugar profiles is far greater than any diabetic I have met in real life, because of the seriousness that elective users have compared to diabetics. Many diabetics I have come accross in real life have atrocious diets too.

It is not a matter of having a blunted insulin response, moreso that people are getting higher than normal slin levels to reach higher peak skeletal muscle growth.

J


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Joshua said:


> It is not the risk per se with taking preworkout, moreso the problem with maintaining sufficient blood glucose to do the workout.
> 
> I don't think that slin is a problem if one's diet is clean and one knows their blood sugar response to all the various combinations of events that can occur. I believe that my knowledge of my blood sugar profiles is far greater than any diabetic I have met in real life, because of the seriousness that elective users have compared to diabetics. Many diabetics I have come accross in real life have atrocious diets too.
> 
> ...


But surely this is a simple balance equation - slin dosage = carb intake, if you dont have carbs in your system you will hypo, if you do take carbs in and have normal glycemic response then your body would produce the same amount of slin (and probably at a more efficient response rate than the injectable form)

Ok during workout you would have inhibition of slin production but that would be matched by upregulation of GLUT receptor activity allowing transport of glucose and AA anyway surely?


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

*Carb intake*

Sure you need sufficient carbs to prevent acute hypos, however the body has substantial and robust systems to increase blood sugar eg(glucagon, catecholamines, glucocorticoids) which can compensate somewhat for dietary carb shortfalls assuming liver glucogen levels are high, and as the rate of gluconeogenesis increases, there is increased provision of dietary carbs to hit the bloodstream [iME, otherwise one feels like crap].

*Glucogen repletion & protein synthesis*

Can GLUT4 response be increased beyond that normally achieved if one uses supraphysiological levels of insulin? I don't know. This brings on the next point that although AA and glucose clearance are mediated by slin, it does not mean that a person using slin is trying to maximise clearance of both. Restoring skeletal muscle glycogen post workout can be achieved more preferably ie( better partitioning of energy into SM glycogen compared to other sinks) with slin (and caffeine) IMO, due to better control of timing, and higher peak insulin & greater area under the curve, during the post workout window.

When it comes to protein synthesis, then maximising the signal to build muscle can be achieved with a synergy between insulin and amino acid availability. Skeletal muscle protein synthesis stalls every so often and is followed by a refractory period [Norton et al] and although there is no studies suggesting that exogenous slin can reduce this period, I suspect that it does [Anecdotal/IME] assuming that EAA provision is maintained. BTW I do not believe that AA are dependant on GLUT (GLUcose Transporter) for their shuttling - checkout SNAT2 and hVps34 mate.

J


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## mick_the_brick (Oct 29, 2008)

Very good post Joshua - reps Bro


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Joshua said:


> *Carb intake*
> 
> Sure you need sufficient carbs to prevent acute hypos, however the body has substantial and robust systems to increase blood sugar eg(glucagon, catecholamines, glucocorticoids) which can compensate somewhat for dietary carb shortfalls assuming liver glucogen levels are high, and as the rate of gluconeogenesis increases, there is increased provision of dietary carbs to hit the bloodstream [iME, otherwise one feels like crap].
> 
> ...


mate, to be honest nothing you have wrote there IMO validates the use of injectable slin over natural production from a post prandial intake of carbs.

from personal experience - natural glucose production doesnt do sh*t for stopping hypos when you have injected too much, the sh*t still hits the fan and you cant accuse me of being like other diabetics who have shoddy control (HBA1c typically around 6)


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

very good post josh,

also the amount of people who have made huge gains from slin speaks for itself. it doesnt matter what the science is or it the science suggests it will work or not.

in real day terms we no it works because many many bodybuilders have gotten results from it.


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Useful being a natural and having insulin on tap eh :thumb:


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> mate, to be honest nothing you have wrote there IMO validates the use of injectable slin over natural production from a post prandial intake of carbs.
> 
> from personal experience - natural glucose production doesnt do sh*t for stopping hypos when you have injected too much, the sh*t still hits the fan and you cant accuse me of being like other diabetics who have shoddy control (HBA1c typically around 6)


The enormous number of successful anecdotes from bodybuilders would support its use, and rather than attempting to validate the use of injectable slin, I am questioning the mechanisms implied in your original contention "simple balance equation - slin dosage = carb intake".

By the sounds of things our experiences (understandably) differ  .

As for natural glucose production, of course "injected too much" is like asking "how long is a piece of string". There will of course be a limit to the rate that your body can get glucose into the bloodstream, but IMO there is gap which can be exploited IME. I believe that this is also the experience of some others (although many are reluctant to say in fear of encouraging people to take risks which they cannot control. One possibility as to a difference between our experiences is the physiological variations (other than lack of insulin secretion) in diabetics.

I was not suggesting that you had shoddy dietary control, and if my post came off that way then I am sorry for my miscommunication. I appreciate your input and my intention was not to offend. I was just stating my experience with the limited number of diabetics I have encounter.

J


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> very good post josh,
> 
> also the amount of people who have made huge gains from slin speaks for itself. it doesnt matter what the science is or it the science suggests it will work or not.
> 
> in real day terms we no it works because many many bodybuilders have gotten results from it.


Sure. I would agree with this.

The science can give us some idea as the the mechanism at play, which helps us when we are trying to further enhance the effects. There is insufficient research IMO as the mechanisms that allow exogenous slin users to have increased skeletal muscle protein synthesis than non users.

I do not think slin is without its problems though - it can be brutal on fat storage (in the short term if diet is off) and long term through making more adipocytes. There is also the concern of insulin resistance (although IME this has not occured even from chronic acute dosing). I also believe that the biggest challenge is not how to increase the insulin doses but how to maintain high levels of aminos in the bloodstream.

J


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Joshua said:


> Sure. I would agree with this.
> 
> The science can give us some idea as the the mechanism at play, which helps us when we are trying to further enhance the effects. There is insufficient research IMO as the mechanisms that allow exogenous slin users to have increased skeletal muscle protein synthesis than non users.
> 
> ...


definatly agree with the amino point. i am currently using efx liquid aminos and i feel these would be very beneficial when using slin.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> definatly agree with the amino point. i am currently using efx liquid aminos and i feel these would be very beneficial when using slin.


Hehe - I have been looking at popping a venflon into my paw and doing an infusion. Only problem is that if I mess up on the concentrations, I could end up with a somewhat undesirable case of my paw dropping off. 

I will check out the efx liquid aminos - thanks.

J


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

LittleChris said:


> Useful being a natural and having insulin on tap eh :thumb:


hum let me think - do I want to have injectable insulin or have a normal functioning endocrine system - descisions, descisions

joshua, i wasnt taking offense - rather just stating from personal experience I know how dangerous insulin can be (due to unforseen hypos and how debilitatign they can be) and can not see for the benefits it offer that those risks are worth it and the dverse effects I have seen are not attributable IMO to poor dietary compliance


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> hum let me think - do I want to have injectable insulin or have a normal functioning endocrine system - descisions, descisions
> 
> joshua, i wasnt taking offense - rather just stating from personal experience I know how dangerous insulin can be (due to unforseen hypos and how debilitatign they can be) and can not see for the benefits it offer that those risks are worth it and the dverse effects I have seen are not attributable IMO to poor dietary compliance


well my mum and uncle are diabetic. i help my mum with her diet when she is trying to loose weight as you no how women get.

i can say almost all her hypo experiences and my uncles are down to their errors or lazyness. from my uncle forgetting his slin or dosing it wrong over xmas etc to my mum trying not to eat or eat healthy to loose weigh without taking proper precautions or reading into it properly.

i no first hand how much a diabetics blood sugars can differ. we have tracked my mums diet in a journal and she can eat the same things at the same times for 3 days in a row yet each morning she wakes up her blood suagrs are different.  i think the last time we did this they were 6.8 after the frist day which was reasonably good. the 2nd day they were 16 and the third day 10.

for diabetics they have major issues like this and it can cause all sorts of unsuspected issues i imagine howere for a normal person i dont see these issues arriving.

you take the slin and you take enough carbs to cover. you play with the amount of carbs to find the exact amout needed but you always carry extra with you. you cant go hypo badly unless you make a mistake.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2009)

glen danbury said:


> hum let me think - do I want to have injectable insulin or have a normal functioning endocrine system - descisions, descisions


Ok, insulin usage is not for you fair enough but now there is no point continuing to post on this thread as you are simply cluttering it up with opinions not concrete ways on how to use slin pre work out which is the topic of this thread.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Con said:


> Ok, insulin usage is not for you fair enough but now there is no point continuing to post on this thread as you are simply cluttering it up with opinions not concrete ways on how to use slin pre work out which is the topic of this thread.


Couldnt agree more..... lets get back on track.

I do like KindProps approach. 4iu and so I'll try that. Should be a safe enough amount to test with and take it from there.

Now I do recall someone mentioning glucagon? Are others using this method or getting by using something else if they get into trouble during the workout?

I plan to ramp up slowly so I can get it right and see how I react on different workout days.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

lucuzade/glucose tablets are the best thing to have on hand IMO incase of a hypo.


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

hilly2008 said:


> lucuzade/glucose tablets are the best thing to have on hand IMO incase of a hypo.


yeah I have glucose tablets on me most of the time.


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## StephenC (Sep 2, 2007)

Are any of you who ae using the pre wo bolus of rapid insulin also using a basal such as levemir or lantus or using the rapid only?

Type 1 friend of mine always does one of his shots pre-wo and raves about it.

What type of intra workout nutrition is anyone using while doing this, I was thinking that bcaa's & small amount of vitargo or similar would be good to sip during a workout?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

if you did the gh slin pre wo would you do the gh pw or all pre wo or both slin and gh pre and pw?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

from what i have read the gh would either be done in the am or pwo if you are shooting IM.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Con said:


> Ok, insulin usage is not for you fair enough but now there is no point continuing to post on this thread as you are simply cluttering it up with opinions not concrete ways on how to use slin pre work out which is the topic of this thread.


I apologise, just trying to highlight the dangers of said usage, but will stay well clear from now on


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> I apologise, just trying to highlight the dangers of said usage, but will stay well clear from now on


I think that many of the posters here are aware, but disagree with the the level of risk if precautions are taken. That said, I do think that your experiences of weight training with type I are very interesting none the less.

J


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

I just don't see the need for fast acting as much after reading maxiters posts on the subject.

I'll stick with lantus personally. I'd only use fast if it was with gh bi laterally for site growth.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

MXD said:


> I just don't see the need for fast acting as much after reading maxiters posts on the subject.
> 
> I'll stick with lantus personally. I'd only use fast if it was with gh bi laterally for site growth.


Lantus is highly unpredictable. I have gone very badly hypo on doses as low as 22iu (max was about 28iu).

I used actrapid last night prior to training 5iu. TBH i had a rubbish work out as i was too concerned about making sure i was not going hypo to go all out with the heavy weights.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Con said:


> Lantus is highly unpredictable. I have gone very badly hypo on doses as low as 22iu (max was about 28iu).
> 
> I used actrapid last night prior to training 5iu. TBH i had a rubbish work out as i was too concerned about making sure i was not going hypo to go all out with the heavy weights.


you guna try it again mate?


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

glen danbury said:


> I apologise, just trying to highlight the dangers of said usage, but will stay well clear from now on


As mentioned most of us are very aware of the dangers slin poses. And I would say everyone in this thread have not walked in blindly thinking insulin was some miracle drug that will make us Ronnie Coleman. But I understand your concern.

I would be very interested in your training and how you get by being a type 1 diabetic. You going to start journal at all?



Con said:


> Lantus is highly unpredictable. I have gone very badly hypo on doses as low as 22iu (max was about 28iu).
> 
> I used actrapid last night prior to training 5iu. TBH i had a rubbish work out as i was too concerned about making sure i was not going hypo to go all out with the heavy weights.


Ok, so day 1 over. Next time you going to be a little more relaxed?


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

hilly2008 said:


> you guna try it again mate?





TaintedSoul said:


> Ok, so day 1 over. Next time you going to be a little more relaxed?


Well it was actually the second time in the past week i have done this. Tbh i think it would work great for some thing like an arm work out but my work outs use a third of the body and expend so much energy i worry of going hypo.


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

MXD said:


> I just don't see the need for fast acting as much after reading maxiters posts on the subject.


He states that all fast acting slin's work only on liver glycogen, and doesnt make it to muscle? From what I can ascertain this isnt so.

I believe, and of course correct me if im wrong, this only applies to novorapid. Novorapid is used in conjuction with levemir. Wherever ive used or seen novorapid used for BB'ing its always resulted in uncontrollable hypos even at very low doses.

Humalog is very effective for our needs.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

not many people agree with maxes theories on insulin and im yet to see any1 attribute any real gaisn to long acting slin.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

I use lantus (subQ dose in am) and have found it good for gains. I have found it to be quite predictable, and usually results in mild but very controllable hypo / very strong carb cravings, in the early evening if fully repleated in the morn and with protein only throughout the day. This is of course ameliorated with some slow GI CHO throughout the day.

I have used Novorapid postworkout, and I found that this was quite predictable too, with similar effects to humalog albeit the faster kinetics. I did not get hypos from this (but I appreciate that this maybe down to my small doses used)

Humalog post workout is nice (run with am lantus) IME. Preworkout it was ok except for the increased tireness during the workout, which I assume was down to me not having my workout diet sorted.

J


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

Khaos said:


> Remember i all depends on the type of slin you are using, i used actrapid and it did just that, 30 mins onset so use wisely, also *slin without gh is to me is 50% compared to slin an gh together* (remember always use caution with slin)


Could you explain this bit mate.

Are you saying that 5IU of slin + GH has a glycogen disposal of 10IU of slin?

What GH dose are you using mate?

Thanks very much Khaos,

J


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

what i meant is slin and gh are synergistic, and to get the best out of them you should imo use them together, i used slin and gh 2 days on 2 days off after researching how the body makes certains hormones needed to synthesis gh, it's a bit like saturated receptor sites.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Con said:


> Lantus is highly unpredictable. I have gone very badly hypo on doses as low as 22iu (max was about 28iu).
> 
> I used actrapid last night prior to training 5iu. TBH i had a rubbish work out as i was too concerned about making sure i was not going hypo to go all out with the heavy weights.


How on earth is lantuus "highly unpredictable" it remaines at a pretty much constant equal release rate for 18-22 hours, apart from the slight peak after 6h..












> How Lantus Works
> 
> This insulin analog was designed to have low solubility in water at a neutral pH, such as that found in body fluids and other insulins. Lantus becomes completely soluble only at an acid pH of 4. Once this is injected under the skin, the acidic solution is neutralized leading to the formation of microprecipitates. The microprecipitates allow small amounts of insulin to be released slowly, resulting in a relatively constant concentration/time profile over 22 hours +/- 4 hours with no pronounced peak in activity.
> 
> Lantus was modified to allow this precise action. Normal insulin has two protein chains called A and B that have two zinc crosslinks between them. Lantus differs from other insulins in that one asparagine at position A21 of the A chain is replaced by glycine, and two arginines have been added added to one end of the B-chain.





kingprop said:


> *He states that all fast acting slin's work only on liver glycogen, and doesnt make it to muscle? From what I can ascertain this isnt so.*
> 
> I believe, and of course correct me if im wrong, this only applies to novorapid. Novorapid is used in conjuction with levemir. Wherever ive used or seen novorapid used for BB'ing its always resulted in uncontrollable hypos even at very low doses.
> 
> Humalog is very effective for our needs.


There are studys that show refilling liver glycogen stops net protein degredation, this could somewhat explain the effect (some not all) of faster insulins.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

Simply personal experience MXD.

By all means do as you wish but don't try and tell me i was not going hypo when i was drenched cold sweat shaking in blockbuster forcing coke down my throat.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Con said:


> Simply personal experience MXD.
> 
> By all means do as you wish but don't try and tell me i was not going hypo when i was drenched cold sweat shaking in blockbuster forcing coke down my throat.


Hmm where the hypos like all day long?

The only time I went hypo of lantus It happened all day as I had been raving the nite before came in still fvcked up and decided to shoot 20iu on empty, silly idea..

We are all different its interesting to see how much so


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

Right... my diabetic friend just dropped off another 5 insulin cartridges so I can give this a go starting on the 21st of this month.

I generally run a 300iu cartridge and then take a break. I use slin 4 times/day on my 4 training days each week.

Thing is I am not and never have used long acting slin so I'm thinking I get used to that first before trying this perhaps? Or not bother with it?


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Long acting is the way to go imo mate, but we are all different..


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

It happened after a very long hard work out mate either back/biceps or legs. It always happened about 2 hours after the work out.

I am just planning a little lantus run now....


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Con said:


> It happened after a very long hard work out mate either back/biceps or legs. It always happened about 2 hours after the work out.
> 
> I am just planning a little lantus run now....


That sounds about right, those 2/4 extra IU being released could of driven allready low bloods even lower.

You have enough pwo carbs on that day?

Also how much lantus where you runing?


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

MXD said:


> Hmm where the hypos like all day long?
> 
> The only time I went hypo of lantus It happened all day as I had been raving the nite before came in still fvcked up and decided to shoot 20iu on empty, silly idea..
> 
> We are all different its interesting to see how much so


I agree. long acting insulin is great especially if your on a bulking diet and want to stimulate more regular, but controllable eating patterns.

I went to 30iu ed of Levemir and staged there for weeks without even the slightest hint of a hypo, stands to reason really given the release rate is slow.

However I always use a generous dose of GH with long acting insulin as in my experience (and I know some will disagree) there is a greater chance of fat accumulation.

Is horses for courses really. I get good results shooting fast acting at breakfast with no fat gain.

I've used humalog at 10iu pre-workout with some carbs and creatine and timed the post workout shake to coincide with the insulin peak. At the time I went about it that way because I was finishing training about 9.30pm and didn't want to risk taking a shot of insulin post workout. I don't see a problem doing it that way as long as you have eaten well throughout the day and you are sensible about workout duration.

I also use glycophage so you can use less insulin to get the same job done


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Aftershock said:


> I agree. long acting insulin is great especially if your on a bulking diet and want to stimulate more regular, but controllable eating patterns.
> 
> I went to 30iu ed of Levemir and staged there for weeks without even the slightest hint of a hypo, stands to reason really given the release rate is slow.
> 
> ...


so jason if ouhad to pick one for mass gains etc and for results overall would you go with fast acting or long acting or a combi of both.

do you think pre workout humalog is better than pwo or not much difference.

your opinion would be much appreciated as you have experience it seems with all in different ways.

I struggle to find any1 that can pin point gains down to long acting slin. by that i mean i havnt found any1 thats ran a similar course twice but with one course having the long acting slin so they can say it actually made a difference if that makes sense lol.


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