# Sore joints; D-Hacks Anavar or Hygetropin Black Top GH?...



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Currently running the following...

Norma / Testoviron Test-E @ 500mg PW

[email protected] Mast-E @ 400mg PW

D-Hacks Anavar @ 100mg ED

Hygetropin Black Top GH @ 5iu ED

... and my knees are so sore, it's a pain to squat with no weight at all, let alone with a barbell on my shoulders.

I've not experienced sore joints on Test or Mast before, and I ran 12 weeks of Wildcat Anavar @ 100mg ED at the beginning of last year, and didn't experience any discomfort during that time, so presuming D-Hacks Anavar is actual Oxandrolone -- and not Stanozolol -- that leaves the Hygetropin Black Tops.

What are your opinions?

DP.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Low or high estrogen

Water on joints

Do they feel dry?

Are they tender to touch?


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

Type HGH joint pain in google and you will see this is quite a common side effect. Try lowering the GH abit, probs 2-3iu


----------



## shadow4509 (Jan 27, 2010)

Dark Prowler said:


> Currently running the following...
> 
> Norma / Testoviron Test-E @ 500mg PW
> 
> ...


Sounds like the hyge to me! I experience that same


----------



## Kevin Smith (May 2, 2013)

Dark Prowler said:


> Currently running the following...
> 
> Norma / Testoviron Test-E @ 500mg PW
> 
> ...


Are you on adex? I get sore knees and joints on adex particularly if I go over my usual tolerance dose. This is due to low estrogen in the body


----------



## Genmutant (May 13, 2014)

It is Mast! 100%! I had the same problem. Take 300mg deca per week. And you will see. In around 3 weeks it will get better...

But it will cost a lot of time if it is be back to good...


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Took a month off the Anavar, and the joint pain subsided. I've recently gone back on, and the joint pain has come back. Test, Mast and GH doses have remained consistent throughout.


----------



## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Dark Prowler said:


> Took a month off the Anavar, and the joint pain subsided. I've recently gone back on, and the joint pain has come back. Test, Mast and GH doses have remained consistent throughout.


Had you sent the 'Anavar' off to Wedinos and had it tested? If not, too late now, they have stopped testing AAS

My bets would be that you bought the Anavar, the time that D-Hacks put the Winny tabs, in the Anavar tub by mistake


----------



## DagoDuck (May 9, 2013)

Winny and Var were not interchanged. It was Winny and Dbol as far as I know.

When and where did you bought the Var?


----------



## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Im on black tops also and cruising atm. 5ius mon to fri

Was able to use my hands to play with the girl for about 3mins before my hands cramped up, both of them. Black tops is your problem, ive ran dhacks var seperatly with no problem. Try the "come here" motion and see how long you can go.. i give ya 2mins.


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Echo said:


> Had you sent the 'Anavar' off to Wedinos and had it tested? If not, too late now, they have stopped testing AAS


I had not, no.



Echo said:


> My bets would be that you bought the Anavar, the time that D-Hacks put the Winny tabs, in the Anavar tub by mistake


If it helps, the "Anavar" tablets in question are octagonal in shape, white in colour, and have "D-HACKS" (sans quotation marks) stamped on one side.



DagoDuck said:


> Winny and Var were not interchanged. It was Winny and Dbol as far as I know.
> 
> When and where did you bought the Var?


Can't remember the exact date, but this particular batch was manufactured in March of this year.



Mweisel said:


> Im on black tops also and cruising atm. 5ius mon to fri
> 
> Was able to use my hands to play with the girl for about 3mins before my hands cramped up, both of them. Black tops is your problem, ive ran dhacks var seperatly with no problem. Try the "come here" motion and see how long you can go.. i give ya 2mins.


I appreciate that you can get sore joints, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc, from GH, but if my sore knees were caused by the Black Tops, then it doesn't explain why all pain subsided after I took one month off the Anavar, then returned after I started it again.


----------



## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Dark Prowler said:


> I had not, no.
> 
> If it helps, the "Anavar" tablets in question are octagonal in shape, white in colour, and have "D-HACKS" (sans quotation marks) stamped on one side.
> 
> ...


it very well may of been a combo of the two or your body adapting to gh as mine slowly gets better in my hands and feet. texting even became difficult. Have you ever taken accutane, winstrol, fish oil?


----------



## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Dark Prowler said:


> If it helps, the "Anavar" tablets in question are octagonal in shape, white in colour, and have "D-HACKS" (sans quotation marks) stamped on one side.


No, doesn't help  Reason being that all his tabs are either in the shape of a triangle or octagon, all are white and have the 'D-HACKS' imprint on them


----------



## Big Ian (Jul 19, 2005)

Be v surprised if your hacks var is winny mate, maybe the combo of the var and hyge?


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

I would seriously doubt the var being winny, atleast not on purpose. But accidents happen and tubs get mislabelled, but i would highly doubt that's the case.


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

I live on mast and test,never had sore joints..Friend of mine recently did var and was complaining of joint problems.

You can make up your own mind.


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Mweisel said:


> it very well may of been a combo of the two or your body adapting to gh as mine slowly gets better in my hands and feet. texting even became difficult.


Could very well be due to stacking GH and 'Var together -- hadn't entertained that.

Only way of finding out is to stop the GH and continue the 'Var, I guess... Just don't want to stop the GH any time soon. 



Mweisel said:


> Have you ever taken accutane, winstrol, fish oil?


Accutane, no. Winstrol, I think is one of the few orals I haven't tried. Used to supplement with fish oil quite a bit, but now try and get those EFAs from food sources. Why'd you ask?

I can probably brave the soreness until I'm done with this batch of 'Var, providing the pain doesn't get any worse. Just won't be able to squat. Leg extensions and hamstring curls are fine on my knees, oddly enough, but definitely don't hit the legs hard enough on their own.


----------



## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Dark Prowler said:


> Could very well be due to stacking GH and 'Var together -- hadn't entertained that.
> 
> Only way of finding out is to stop the GH and continue the 'Var, I guess... Just don't want to stop the GH any time soon.
> 
> ...


applogies, very late reply didnt see this. I was wondering due to the fact that winstrol and accutane are both well known for causing the same type of symptoms. I am on accutane @ 60mg a day (dhacks) all joints are very sore. Ran winstrol oral before at 100mg and 50mg a day, evetually stopping since i was sick of the joint pain. Did you slowly taper up with the gh? I jumped right into 5 iu mon-fri being the impatient person i am.


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Mweisel said:


> applogies, very late reply didnt see this. I was wondering due to the fact that winstrol and accutane are both well known for causing the same type of symptoms. I am on accutane @ 60mg a day (dhacks) all joints are very sore. Ran winstrol oral before at 100mg and 50mg a day, evetually stopping since i was sick of the joint pain.


No worries, mate. I'm just trying to lump the pain and get on with it at the moment, though I am taking a break from working my chest and shoulders, as I don't know if it's my tendons, or muscles, but my shoulders aren't too happy currently.



Mweisel said:


> Did you slowly taper up with the gh? I jumped right into 5 iu mon-fri being the impatient person i am.


Initially, I didn't taper up the GH -- just went in @ 5iu ED -- but then I started to get a racing heartbeat, anxiety, migraines, and a lack of appetite (which could have all been due to the Sibutramine I was trialing at the same time), so I went down to 2iu, then slowly worked my way back up to 5iu, and that seemed to work.


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

i cannot answer your question, but when one is in doubt it is difficult adding more and more compounds in order to combat potential sides.

i would say it is not the masteron. the anavar could be fake but i am not experienced with var so unsure if that could be an issue.

what i can do though is recommend a surprising discovery. the product secretabridge, which is supposedly a natural anabolic but had some good feedback on injuries and people reported healing even of thei long term injuries cured a shoulder problem i had for about 2 months, where my shoulder hurt and gave me dysbalances, where i could not use close to the weight in dumbbells as before, because my shoulder would just give out and the weight would fall on me...lol.

this disappeared within 3 days of using the product. another time i hurt my rear shoulder in the gym with a kind of pain that makes it almost impossible to move the arm a certain direction. in the past those kind of pains lasted weeks, it went away within 2 days. only downfall is how expensive it is and i am not sure how well it works when the source of the pain is still present.


----------



## Mweisel (May 25, 2014)

Dark Prowler said:


> No worries, mate. I'm just trying to lump the pain and get on with it at the moment, though I am taking a break from working my chest and shoulders, as I don't know if it's my tendons, or muscles, but my shoulders aren't too happy currently.
> 
> Initially, I didn't taper up the GH -- just went in @ 5iu ED -- but then I started to get a racing heartbeat, anxiety, migraines, and a lack of appetite (which could have all been due to the Sibutramine I was trialing at the same time), so I went down to 2iu, then slowly worked my way back up to 5iu, and that seemed to work.


Is the shoulder pain associated with a popping or grinding? I had that problem, my problem was my form. I used to play soccer (from the us) I played for about most of my childhood 10-17. When i walk my ankles crack with every step, knees are shot to hell etc. Possibly try changing the time you use the gh. I have tried all different timings and I like before bed. Sibutramine does that to me also, have you tried ephedrine? I was much better off using that instead. I know @clubberlang has had trouble with gh and joint problems. Check it out in his log in the gallery.


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

*UPDATE:*

I finished my Anavar cycle on October 24th, but the pain in my knees has gotten worse. I'd say it's coming from the back of my knees, as opposed to the front or sides.

If either of my legs are bent at a 45 degree angle or more (or, for an exaggerated example, if sitting cross-legged / in the lotus position), the pain becomes increasingly worse, the longer I am seated, and is even more so when straightening them out.

If I could describe how the back of my knees feel, I'd say very stiff and "rusty", though not necessarily "dry", as they don't grind. Straightening my legs from a bent position feels almost as if the back of my knees are fighting against a lot of very tight bungee cord.

When I'm walking, or lying down with my legs straight, I hardly feel any pain at all.

I am now also experiencing the same sort of pain in the arches of my feet -- no amount of stretching seems to provide any relief.

The pain in my left shoulder that I mentioned back in September has developed into what sounds like shoulder impingement, making upper-body training impossible. Over the past few weeks, my right shoulder seems to be following suite -- though not anywhere near as severely as my left -- and despite taking two months off training, neither shoulder appears to be getting any better.

I feel like I should change my name to Stan, get a walking stick, and apply for an old age pensioner's buss pass. Rickety, is an understatement.

So, before you ask, I decided to stop the GH on November 23rd, having dropped the dose from 5iu ED to 2.5iu ED five days prior, to see if that would make any difference to the pain, and so far, there has been no change. Yes, I know it's only been a few days. If it was indeed the GH that caused all these problems, I sincerely hope I can recover from them soon, without the need for surgery, as it's a chore to do pretty much anything at the moment.

The compounds and supplements I am currently on are...

Test-E @ 500mg PW

Mast-E @ 400mg PW

ECA Pro @ 2 caps ED

T3 @ 100mcg ED

Vitamin D @ 2500iu ED

Cod Liver Oil @ 1000mg ED

MSM @ 1000mg ED

As always, any constructive opinions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Lawrence 82 (Jun 1, 2012)

Dark Prowler said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I finished my Anavar cycle on October 24th, but the pain in my knees has gotten worse. I'd say it's coming from the back of my knees, as opposed to the front or sides.
> 
> ...


In the same boat mate pretty much , also on hyge black tops have swelling round joints , right leg cant bend, last jab of 5iu monday, only thing it can be for me as only added gh in last few 4 weeks... cts in left hand ,

am sure it will subside on discontinuation . i cant take a decent amount of gh for bodybuilding purposes so im just gunna prob change to clinical peps for anti ageing , skin, sleep etc, prob one dose b4 bed


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

Lawrence 82 said:


> In the same boat mate pretty much , also on hyge black tops have swelling round joints , right leg cant bend, last jab of 5iu monday, only thing it can be for me as only added gh in last few 4 weeks... cts in left hand ,
> 
> am sure it will subside on discontinuation . i cant take a decent amount of gh for bodybuilding purposes so im just gunna prob change to clinical peps for anti ageing , skin, sleep etc, prob one dose b4 bed


Wish you a speedy recovery, mate!

I was running 5iu ED to release FFAs before cardio / breakfast every morning, which worked a treat for the first 3+ months -- only side I had was CTS in my left arm / hand, but nothing that hampered my training -- and now this. Not fun.

I wonder if one's body would react the same way with peps. I'm guessing it would. Perhaps @Pscarb could chime in?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

the reaction is down to dose, normally peptides does not give these sides due to the fact one saturation injection of GHRH/GHRP gives approx 1.13iu of GH, although i have seen bloating and water retention around joints from cheap peptides, but this in my opinion is down to the binders they use to reduce cost....


----------



## Craig92 (Dec 31, 2013)

Mweisel said:


> Im on black tops also and cruising atm. 5ius mon to fri
> 
> Was able to use my hands to play with the girl for about 3mins before my hands cramped up, both of them. Black tops is your problem, ive ran dhacks var seperatly with no problem. Try the "come here" motion and see how long you can go.. i give ya 2mins.


Using 2 Hands just playing? You must either have a complete weapon so preparing her, or you seriously need to go for a different type of bird! lol

Op, get the Deca into your system. Few weeks and it should ease the pain. Best of luck


----------



## Dark Prowler (Jun 20, 2013)

*UPDATE:*

My knees have pretty much recovered, though can be mildly sore on some days. Not sure how they'll hold up to squatting yet. My left shoulder no longer feels painful day to day, but when I attempted to perform a one-sided lateral raise with 5kg -- to gauge how I was doing -- the pain presents itself at the top of the ROM. So, not sure if I'm going to heal anymore, or if that's as far as it's going to go, but we shall see. Just so eager to get back to training, it's frustrating.


----------

