# How far is it possible to go?



## Newbie8784 (Jun 14, 2011)

Hey guys, was just curious if anyone had any pictures of people who they know as a fact have always been completely natural - although I'm nowhere near the limit yet, it would be nice to see just how far you can go before it's impossible to gain anymore without gear.

Cheers


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

Look at older WNBF competitors:

Jeff Willet

http://www.jeffwillet.com/

Dave Goodin

https://www.facebook.com/davegoodin

Jon Harris

http://www.jonharris.com/

Brian Whittaker

http://www.brianwhitacre.net/


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

Don't forget Jayy Cutler also.


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## Newbie8784 (Jun 14, 2011)

Wow, I didn't think you'd be able to get anywhere near that naturally... now I know people who use gear are just being lazy.


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## richgearguy (Jun 23, 2011)

RickMiller said:


> Look at older WNBF competitors:
> 
> Jeff Willet
> 
> ...


Wow - that's impressive. But do WNBF regs allow some gear usage, as long as they have been natural for the last few years? Great physiques regardless though.


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## Newbie8784 (Jun 14, 2011)

Just googled it - 7 years drug free - but I guess it's impossible to maintain steroid gains for anything like that length of time, so might as well be clean for life?


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## Jack92 (Aug 23, 2010)

Newbie8784 said:


> Wow, I didn't think you'd be able to get anywhere near that naturally... now I know people who use gear are just being lazy.


i wouldnt say they were lazy tbh just have different goals perhaps


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## Jack92 (Aug 23, 2010)

chilisi said:


> My cousin was 5'7 16 stone under 10% fat all year round. In fantastic shape.


wow


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

Newbie8784 said:


> Just googled it - 7 years drug free - but I guess it's impossible to maintain steroid gains for anything like that length of time, so might as well be clean for life?


Depends a lot on training, endocrine function, diet and lifestyle after the individual cessated usage. They'll certainly reduce down to at least their genetic maximum muscular potential (always sub-200lbs at a low bodyfat for naturals) but won't necessarily lose everything.

Usage is definitely an individual choice, natural bodybuilding just doesn't have the kudos that the IFBB has but it's gradually increasing. The more athletes we keep in this area, the better.


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## BigRampage (Jul 26, 2011)

RickMiller said:


> Look at older WNBF competitors:
> 
> Jeff Willet
> 
> ...


To me these guys do look good but don't necessarily look very big their just extremely ripped. I've read a lot of your posts so know you know what your talking about so can you please tell me in your opinion is it not possible to get bigger than those guys whilst being completely natty?

I'm 6'2 and 15 stone but am carrying a little weight around my midrift but I do believe if I was completely shredded I wouldn't look as good as these guys with their extreme separation and proportion but I do think I'm as big. I've been training for 4 years now completely natural but seriously for the last 2 years and I'm worried I'm reaching my "genetic potential" so to speak but I want to big a fair bit bigger!!

I'd really appreciate your thoughts.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Its totally irelavant.Judging your own progress, or not by others.Too many factors are involved.Genetics being the most important.You cant make any meaninigful comparisons so dont try.It will only lead to frustration.Do the best YOU can do.Stop reading muscle comics, and pictures of semi naked men on the internet.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

BigRampage said:


> To me these guys do look good but don't necessarily look very big their just extremely ripped. I've read a lot of your posts so know you know what your talking about so can you please tell me in your opinion is it not possible to get bigger than those guys whilst being completely natty?
> 
> I'm 6'2 and 15 stone but am carrying a little weight around my midrift but I do believe if I was completely shredded I wouldn't look as good as these guys with their extreme separation and proportion but I do think I'm as big. I've been training for 4 years now completely natural but seriously for the last 2 years and I'm worried I'm reaching my "genetic potential" so to speak but I want to big a fair bit bigger!!
> 
> I'd really appreciate your thoughts.


Jeff Willet doesnt look big! Hes huge mate.If you believe you can get to look like that,with or without drugs, im pretty sure your gonna end up disappointed.


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## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

Unaided potential will get you so far, beyond that you need help.


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

I got over 17 stone natty, eating and training through school so had loads of natty test helping me lol


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## BigRampage (Jul 26, 2011)

My mistake jeff Willet does look huge. You've said that trying to look like that with or without drugs will lead to disappointment? so your basically saying no one can be that big? I'm sure there's guys who use this site that are that big.

I appreciate the responses guys but don't read too much into my comparisons with these guys I'm more concerned about people's views on genetic potential and do they think about it or think they've reached theirs? how big have you got naturally?


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## The Big Dog (Jul 13, 2009)

When people ask mr I reply in the words of Lady GaGa.

' baby I was born this way!'


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## maxie (Jan 31, 2011)

Natural trainings a long,long hard slog and if you reach your potential your still gonna be way behind assisted bodybuilders thats a fact.

If your tall its double hard to fill out im 5 foot 10 and the biggest i got was 240 but could still have used another 30-40lb to fill out properly.

Its a hard,long process but if there wasnt so much bollox training advice for naturals about maybe it wouldnt be.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

A good few pics of natty bodybuilders here - http://www.npabodybuilding.com/Profiles.aspx


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

BigRampage said:


> My mistake jeff Willet does look huge. You've said that trying to look like that with or without drugs will lead to disappointment? so your basically saying no one can be that big? I'm sure there's guys who use this site that are that big.
> 
> I appreciate the responses guys but don't read too much into my comparisons with these guys I'm more concerned about people's views on genetic potential and do they think about it or think they've reached theirs? how big have you got naturally?


What im saying is.If you have to ask "what do I need to do to get that big?" Means,Ive been training for x amount of time and im not that big.

If you had the genetics to get that big, you wouldnt have to ask the question.You would likely be approaching that level of development, irrespective of how you train, diet, etc.Again, comparing yourself to Willet, who has 1 in 100,000 (or more) genetic advantages WILL lead to disapointment.

The guys who use this site, who are as big , or bigger than Willet, wont be on this site asking how to get that big.

Re your 2nd point.I have reached the upper levels of my potential.My legs keep improving, because the insertions are quite good.My upper body not so.Im pretty experienced at being able to judge potential.Not difficult if you know what to look for.


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## Dav1 (Sep 25, 2009)

All I'll say is really using US "natties" is not a very good example, consequences much worse for using than here for starters and erm some of the top guys are a bit more liberal with the truth, both John Hansen and Lacour were found out, as has been said different US feds stipulate different times for being natural 1,2, 5 years etc... Imo if you've ever takne anything you're not a natural simple as even AAS will if you train right leave some gains, and HGH will provide you with a much more permanent effect.

I was a top natural heavyweight competing in the ANB back in the early 90's in the "golden era" of natural heavies - Andy Palmer, Paul Holder, Peter Clark, George James, etc... oh and possibly the top natty heavy Andy Gale who was found to have 3 different esters in his blood and chucked out lol. Under 6' at 5% BF your looking at anywhere from 83-4kg (for 5'7/8/9) up to about 92kg or so (for those closer to 6') as world class level natties. Best Natural I ever saw was double ANB British overall champ Ralf Searing who was for reference better than Rob Hope, but at 5'4" or so just under 78kg at low bodyfat.


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