# how good is hgh?



## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

talking about for bulking here. on another forum i frequent, the consensus is that the money needed spent on it to get decent results is so much that getting the right mix of androgens/anabolics and forgetting the hgh is a better option.

for the record, i will never compete, i am a rece trainer with about 10 years experience, have used gear for maybe 5 years on and off and ran growth at 12 iu every other day for 4 months whilst off steroids. helped mentally but not sure if it did in any other way.

just wondering what your guys thoughts on this are? it seems to me that a lot of you rate growth higher here than elsewhere. thanks. neil.


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

small bumpage


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## McQueen (Aug 21, 2008)

Started GH last week will know in about 12 weeks or so.....!


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

ok mate! it may take longer than that though.


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## McQueen (Aug 21, 2008)

redneil75 said:


> ok mate! it may take longer than that though.


Yeh .....and its not cheap is it!!


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

unless your competing

have low bf and trying to to preserve muscle

and have money to stay on it

i wouldnt waste a penny on it

i find it alright if i want some time off gear do it with a tiny bit of slin just keeps you full and keeps your pumps up

its not the wonder drug its made out to be

could feel the hygetropin mind pins and needles swelling in joints


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

If you have spare cash go for it, but dont expect miracles


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

no, like i said i have used it before and didnt expect or get miricles! was wondering what others thought of it, thats all.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Heres a copy and paste, it's not totally correct but may give you a better insight into it mate....

this is an article on GH i have been working on, it takes all the advice from the top vets on GH and has been thoroughly checked and also provides citings so u can look at the info and studies urself if u want. this was made to benefit all who are looking into starting GH or need basic info on it. i am not trying to take credit for it since most of the ideas in here are either common knowledge or by MOD or Ironmaster, this is only till ironmaster can get a book out with all his info on it. If anyone has anything ot add to it please do so, its only to help out hte iron brotherhood, enjoy, and merry xmas

Growth Hormone

Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)

Strength-4

Weight Gain-4

Fat Loss-4

Side Effects-2

Keep Gains--4

Side Effects:

Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.

Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.

GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH

Carpel Tunnel Syndrome

Soreness in Joints

Benefits of GH:

New Muscle Cells

Mood Enhancement

Smoothing and improving the skin

Leanness, it is a potent fat burner

Joint and ligament strengthening

Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:

You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!

Conversions:

1 ml = 1 cc -/+

100 units per 1 cc

6 mg = 18iu

1 ml = 18iu

.50 ml = 9iu

.25 ml = 4.5iu

Some people choose to only do it in cc's but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart

5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart

Differences Between Kits:

The main difference between kits is how many iu's they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.

Dose:

4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.

How to Stack:

GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.

GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.

It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.

Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:

Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.

Half-Life of GH:

Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.

GH Naturally Produced:

We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that's when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.

GH Causing Acromeglia:

Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.

GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:

Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.

GH and IGF-1:

Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.

GH and IGF-1 are negative regulators of GH release so an increase in either (from a GH injection) reduces the secretion of GH. IGF-1 is very difficult to obtain in a useable condition.... it must be handled very gently and have bee kept at a rather precise temperature at all times. One can stimulate IGF production through the use of an oral steroid during cycle. Dbol, for example, causes a rather extensive release of IGF during the first pass through the liver.

The leading studies in this area: (Ney, 1999, Yarasheski, 1994.... Am J. App. Phys.)

In the Yarasheski study, no increase in lean muscle mass was noticed in the subjects using GH alone, but significant gains were found in subjects that supplemented with IGF and GH...add in the steroids and look out! Yarasheski studied weight trained athletes, supplementing one group with GH alone, and one group with GH and IGF. "So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. (Leanness and increased lean mass) Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis." Both seem to negatively downregulate the other over time, so as to lead to diminishing returns. Cycling would be in order for that reason. Also supplementing both is necessary because one or the other alone will suppress the natural production of the non-supplemented Latest study by Yarashevski - with


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

thanks robsta, top bloke.


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

redneil75 said:


> thanks robsta, top bloke.


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

huh? :confused1:


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## Mr Incredible (Aug 3, 2009)

Not worth the money IMO


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## eurgar (May 5, 2008)

Kingmatheus said:


> I am currently taking 4iu every other day cost reasons, for the last 2 months I have noticed no differences apart from my wallet being empty
> 
> I can say there has been a difference within my sleep deeper sleeps also I have suffered from joint ache and muscle injuries preventing me from training.
> 
> ...


I would say that the dose you are taking is far to low for any mass gains, also 2 months is not that long when talking about GH. Try doubling to 8iu eod


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## kingprop (May 8, 2005)

When a plateau has been reached, with everything being in place and that means correct nutrition as well as training and supplementation; then it can be an excellent compound. If, like me, you suffer bad sides when raising the dose steroid wise its a great addition. Ive found with the greater availability of it some guys can jump on it too early and usually have some other part missing like correct nutrition. In that case it disappoints.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

I think it isnt worth the money. For bulking use 6iu a day plus and over a year you may notice more thickness., better recovery etc. That`ll set you back about £2,500 though so IMO not worth the cost unless you have cash spare


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

thanks for the info guys.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Love GH myself.

Low insulin levels cause hyperglycemia.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mr Incredible said:


> Not worth the money IMO


 if you know how to use it properly it certainly is worth the money:thumb:


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

great for injuries imo


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Good stuff if used right,brilliant for pre contest.


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## Anatola (Aug 12, 2009)

Hey!

What are the typical prices for HGH such as Genotrope and Norditropin? I was quoted prices for these two but the prices seem to low...

Please let me know.

Thanks!


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Anatola said:


> Hey!
> 
> ************************************
> 
> Thanks!


No price discussions on here mate.


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## Anatola (Aug 12, 2009)

oh i am sorry.


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

No probs mate....welcome to the board.


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## Anatola (Aug 12, 2009)

thanks!


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

i never noticed the skin improving element of it at all. although i do have psoriasis


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## matteast (Aug 3, 2009)

Jimmy said:


> great for injuries imo


And for me hgh is useful to heal my bad injury, 6 weeks ago I broke the most important tendon of my left leg :cursing:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Kingmatheus said:


> Thanks for your feedback I will up my dosage to 8iu eod and see what results this brings. Also I am suffering from joint pain would a small dosage of sus pw help to lubricate my joints to prevent this?
> 
> Thanks In advance


Doubtful.

Lowering the GH amount will be though.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

yes mate, go for the shark cartilage.....I suggest a good spot off the barrier reef....and don't forget the Tuna flappers....as I find this time of year that is what they prefer......

Oh, and go for the great whites....their cartlidge is far better than the other "wannabe gangsta" type sharks.....

Anyways, grab me a couple will you please, my neck is aching a bit and need some too.....


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

yes I do....why problem with that?


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

I don't need mirrors, as i know I look fantastic


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## McQueen (Aug 21, 2008)

Robsta said:


> yes I do....why problem with that?





Robsta said:


> I don't need mirrors, as i know I look fantastic





Kingmatheus said:


> Think it is the best place for you (it)........ but everyone is entitled to there own opinion...
> 
> Have a gd day


*Takes cover*


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Kingmatheus said:


> Think it is the best place for you (it)........ but everyone is entitled to there own opinion...
> 
> Have a gd day


When you get the sharks cartlidge....ask for the ones mixed with a tinge of assenic.....then you won't feel any pain at all...


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Kingmatheus said:


> Think it is the best place for you (it)........ but everyone is entitled to there own opinion...
> 
> Have a gd day


I obviously made a joke, if you think you can cnut me off and get away with it, think again.......

Now learn the lesson, show respect and we'll get along.....cnut me off again and you'll be gone.....seemples


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

bye bye...and before I ban you.....if you ever would like to say that to my face you skinny little pr!ck,,,,,,golds gym bedford.....every day


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Robsta said:


> bye bye...and before I ban you.....if you ever would like to say that to my face you skinny little pr!ck,,,,,,golds gym bedford.....every day


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

yikes, what has happened to my thread?!


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Someone called me a cnut....which in all fairness I am....but he hurt my feelings and made me upset.....which then resulted in me kicking the dog and sending my kids to bed with no supper, and then (erm hang on, trying to think of something else) had a guiness, therefore runing my diet...so I politely asked him to leave by banning the cnut.....savvy


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## redneil75 (May 6, 2009)

ah, i see. no need to be calling someone that at all. well, he wont be doing it again i would suggest.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

It's all good mate....these skinny little keyboard warriors are only hard behind a pc screen......


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Robsta is PMT'ing again


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Robsta said:


> bye bye...and before I ban you.....if you ever would like to say that to my face you skinny little pr!ck,,,,,,golds gym bedford.....every day


Damn man, you are a hard one. :lol:

If I ever meet you Rob, I will defo say thanks for the beer...lol


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