# How to use glucose meter to detet ketosis (vs unreliable ketostix)



## musio (Jan 25, 2008)

I've read a few posts on here about using a glucosemeter so I was just looking for some pointers.

How many times should i take a reading?

When (after meals/before?)

From what i understand, it should read 5.6 or below for keto?

Why haven't i read about this method on the net? As ketostix could be unreliable and this is a sure thing since you are taking your blood and can see how food effects you, I thought there would be much more on the net rather than the cobwebs i've tried to google! :confused1:

Thanks for any tips!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

there's plenty of information on BG levels and ketosis- do you know there are forums like this relating to diabetics- its where i learned loads; also I learned loads from books (and a few emails) from Dan Duchaine.

OK its not that you use an BG meter to "detect" ketosis, because a BG meter by nature reads BLOOD GLUCOSE levels.

However, you have to understand what ketosis is.

first, for your body to burn energy, there is a process called the citric acid cycle (Krebs cycle):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle

you will notice the following from that link:

Major metabolic pathways converging on the TCA cycle

Several catabolic pathways converge on the TCA cycle. Reactions that form intermediates of the TCA cycle in order to replenish them (especially during the scarcity of the intermediates) are called anaplerotic reactions.

The citric acid cycle is the third step in carbohydrate catabolism (the breakdown of sugars). Glycolysis breaks glucose (a six-carbon-molecule) down into pyruvate (a three-carbon molecule). In eukaryotes, pyruvate moves into the mitochondria. It is converted into acetyl-CoA by decarboxylation and enters the citric acid cycle.

2. In protein catabolism, proteins are broken down by proteases into their constituent amino acids. The carbon backbone of these amino acids can become a source of energy by being converted to acetyl-CoA and entering into the citric acid cycle.

3.In fat catabolism, triglycerides are hydrolyzed to break them into fatty acids and glycerol.

In the liver the glycerol can be converted into glucose via dihydroxyacetone phosphate and glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate by way of gluconeogenesis. In many tissues, especially heart tissue, fatty acids are broken down through a process known as beta oxidation, which results in acetyl-CoA, which can be used in the citric acid cycle. Beta oxidation of fatty acids with an odd number of methylene groups produces propionyl CoA, which is then converted into succinyl-CoA and fed into the citric acid cycle.[12]

The total energy gained from the complete breakdown of one molecule of glucose by glycolysis, the citric acid cycle, and oxidative phosphorylation equals about 30 ATP molecules, in eukaryotes. The citric acid cycle is called an amphibolic pathway because it participates in both catabolism and anabolism.

SO what this means is, your body moves from Glycolysis (burning glucose) to gluconeogenesis (burning amino acids from broken down protein- i.e muscle break down!) when blood sugar/glucose is below 5.6-5.8 mmol/L (this is called fasting glucose levels- ie. the level of blood sugar when you eat nothing! i.e when you wake up having gone 8+ hours without food..)

however if there is not enough aminos available (usually because of AAS which retain nitrogen, -the "N' in the -NH3 amine molecule that makes an amino acid) the body moves from gluconeogenesis to ketosis (converting tri-glycerides to ketones, which in turn are used for energy in the krebs cycle.

see also, in the order that they happen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolysis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis

so to get into ketosis, your BG reading MUST be at a fasted level; however this does not mean you are in ketosis immediately- usually it means you're in gluconeogenesis... and it can take 48 hours 60 hours to get into keto, unless you do cardio, or.. speed things up with met or 'slin..

The use of BG monitor is so that when you take ZERO (or close to zero) carbs, you will move into gluconeogenesis, and then ketosis- however if you're above 5.6 on the BG, then its IMPOSSIBLE to be in ketosis..

now how do you know you're in gluconeogenesis? easy.. you eat ZERO carbs, yet your BG readings are ABOVE 5.6 (usually around 6.0-6.2)...

if you take AAS/T4 or T3 and met or 'slin you FORCE your body to move through/past gluconeogenesis VERY quickly... I can get a reading on keto stix in 10-12hours using AAS/T4/'slin.. as AAS retain aminos, and T4 and 'slin ALSO promote protein synthesis (anabolism) rather than burning aminos for energy.. so you have 3 actions to stop your body using aminos for energy..

at any rate, the BG meter is useful to see that you are allowing yourself to get into keto (must be at fasted blood glucose levels),and also when eating keto meals, will tell you if protein intake is to high/fats to low- you will read above 5.6 even if taking in ZERO carbs....

I haven't made any of this up, but don't forget diabetics are told ketosis is to BE AVOIDED and that its A BAD state for your body to be in... which is true- its the least preferred method of energy use, and its catabolic..

as for measuring- a normal non diabetic should have close to fasted BG levels at 2-4 hours after eating. You need to measure at 15/30/60min post meal to make sure you haven't spiked above 5.6 with what you consumed..


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> there's plenty of information on BG levels and ketosis- do you know there are forums like this relating to diabetics- its where i learned loads; also I learned loads from books (and a few emails) from Dan Duchaine.
> 
> OK its not that you use an BG meter to "detect" ketosis, because a BG meter by nature reads BLOOD GLUCOSE levels.
> 
> ...


in a nutshell?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

fatmanstan! said:


> in a nutshell?


BG meter doesn't show ketosis- but if your BG reads above 5.6 its impossible to be in ketosis- so test at 15/30/60mins after a meal to make sure you don't spike over that level.

If your meal has zero/few carbs, and you are over 5.6 you're in gluconoegenesis and making glucose from amino acids, which means to much protein, not enough fat in that meal.


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

I enjoy reading your posts Aus.

So. In your opinion, for a natty, whats the most effective method of getting contest ready?

I have done a 14 week keto cut which worked well but I lose too much muscle when on it, i think. Ive come to think that its probably best to just peter down my current "bulk" diet with less calories (mainly carbs in the PM) etc.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hsmann87 said:


> I enjoy reading your posts Aus.
> 
> So. In your opinion, for a natty, whats the most effective method of getting contest ready?
> 
> I have done a 14 week keto cut which worked well but I lose too much muscle when on it, i think. Ive come to think that its probably best to just peter down my current "bulk" diet with less calories (mainly carbs in the PM) etc.


thanks. Well my opinion is that its IMPOSSIBLE to be contest ready natty... but then it depends on your definition of natty... see my definition of natty, means no drugs of any sort at all.

But, many would say natty means no AAS... so that means:

-pro-hormones

-GH

-peps

-'slin

-ECA stack

-T3/Clen stack

are all useable for a natty; is that your definition of natty? tell me what you won't use..

Personally I think if someone would take pro-hormones (like t-bullets) or ECA or T3/clen, then why not AAS???

but each to their own..

See getting in contest condition means shredded.... which usually means muscle loss, unless you use AAS, although using some of the combo's i've listed above, you can preserve a lot more muscle than a diet would normally allow (dont forget, diet=catabolism in a natural state).


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> thanks. Well my opinion is that its IMPOSSIBLE to be contest ready natty... but then it depends on your definition of natty... see my definition of natty, means no drugs of any sort at all.
> 
> But, many would say natty means no AAS... so that means:
> 
> ...


yeah i dont see the difference either. if i was to take ECA stack i would be banging in at least a gram of tren weekly aswell lol.

but for me its totally clean. aim to do a natural show next year so the only chemicals i will be putting into my body are BCAAs lol.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hsmann87 said:


> yeah i dont see the difference either. if i was to take ECA stack i would be banging in at least a gram of tren weekly aswell lol.
> 
> but for me its totally clean. aim to do a natural show next year so the only chemicals i will be putting into my body are BCAAs lol.


Ok, in that case... you will be competing against many people who will take a variety of those supplements; to my knowledge natural shows mean no AAS use in past 2 years.. (but i haven't checked the rules in full as I would never consider being natural- I'm on GH for the rest of my life i've decided! LOL)

Well in that case; you need to find a diet that works for you, and take it VERY Slow; your biggest issue is if you drop cals to much, your body will shed muscle.

-do short weights sessions (long ones increase cortisol levels which break down muscle..)

-do cardio at medium intensity only (65-80% VO2 max only) for 30 mins (not longer, also a cortisol issue).

You will need to use a pre/during/post workout shake (so yes 3 shakes) whith BCAA and extra aminos- i will hunt up the ratios (member Blackbeard has posted his diet yesterday, and he uses these shakes).

hope that helps as a start..


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> Ok, in that case... you will be competing against many people who will take a variety of those supplements; to my knowledge natural shows mean no AAS use in past 2 years.. (but i haven't checked the rules in full as I would never consider being natural- I'm on GH for the rest of my life i've decided! LOL)
> 
> Well in that case; you need to find a diet that works for you, and take it VERY Slow; your biggest issue is if you drop cals to much, your body will shed muscle.
> 
> ...


cheers.

yeah i did a 14 week keto last year. my avi is what shape i managed to get into. another 4 weeks would have got me some proper muscle separation etc. but seeing as i wasnt going to step on stage i didnt bother with the last 4 weeks.

i made some big mistakes then which i learnt from. i dropped cals too much. was on 1900 cals per day towards the end with 1x 40min 65% HR cardio session per day and a solid weights workout! i was in tatters lol.

i have made a few changes since then and they are

1) to include carbs - im thinking of doing keto for maybe the first 8-10 weeks of keto for my next cut and carb cycling for the remaining 6 weeks or so. not sure though.

2) i have began to take aminos also. 15g BCAAS daily. 10g glutamine daily. 10g EAAs daily. Hour and half before i train i have 55g whey and 80g oats. Intraworkout i take 5g glutamine, 10g EAAs. PWO i take 80g WMS (which equates to 70g carb). 45g whey. 5g glutamine. 5g BCAAs.

3) im resting more i.e. hitting a bodypart every 10 days instead of the standard 7

growth is occuring but i guess i have to do a cut to properly see whether my changes made work!

oh yeah ive also started having 1g vit C on waking and 1g vit C PWO to blunt cortisol.

but on the whole i think drastic diet flutuations (e.g keto) dont benefit the body.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

hsmann87 said:


> cheers.
> 
> yeah i did a 14 week keto last year. my avi is what shape i managed to get into. another 4 weeks would have got me some proper muscle separation etc. but seeing as i wasnt going to step on stage i didnt bother with the last 4 weeks.
> 
> ...


I think your aminos are good... also training a body part every 10days is good for a natty, so you've done some good things. Keep your workouts short to keep cortisol low (i'm unconvinced about vit c blunting cortisol; but can't hurt).

keto is fine, but you do need a 2day carb-up every weekend.. (I'm a fan of the bodyopus diet).

however, at any rate its important to keep cals high enough.. seems like you've learnt..

Great shape for a natty- dieting is tough- its catabolic after all..

good luck!


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## hsmann87 (Jun 22, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> keto is fine, but you do need a 2day carb-up every weekend.. (I'm a fan of the bodyopus diet).


cheers.

yeah that carb up thing is where opinions differ. some people say you need a LOT of carbs to carb up. but some say that you dont need a lot as there is a threshold to how much glycogen each of your muscles can store, especially since im not ronnie coleman with the ability to use slin at my leisure lol

its gonna have to be a long winded experimentation thing methinks. which is fine. it makes it all the more fun:thumb:

thanks for the help.


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## musio (Jan 25, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> BG meter doesn't show ketosis- but if your BG reads above 5.6 its impossible to be in ketosis


Thanks for the education and not just an answer! For the short answer, the quote above makes sense. BG meter isn't technically showing keto but will indicate you could be..



hsmann87 said:


> I enjoy reading your posts Aus.


Agree! Thumbs up Aus! :thumb:

Reading bodyopus based on your recommendation...so good so far 8)


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

musio said:


> Thanks for the education and not just an answer!
> 
> its ok, I don't make this s**t up! LOL
> 
> ...


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## j1mmytt (Jan 12, 2011)

my brain hurts, i duno if its the diet or what ive just read above....... I have run out of lancets and test strips and im skint lol, but i still jhave the ketostix and they are showing around 4 mmol/L on the BG i was consistently below 5 but i seem to have gained strength and weight lol but only small bodyfat changes. I think I may need to reduce my calorie intake next week. I also find all your posts interesting Ausbuilt keep em coming.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

j1mmytt said:


> my brain hurts, i duno if its the diet or what ive just read above....... I have run out of lancets and test strips and im skint lol, but i still jhave the ketostix and they are showing around 4 mmol/L on the BG i was consistently below 5 but i seem to have gained strength and weight lol but only small bodyfat changes. I think I may need to reduce my calorie intake next week. I also find all your posts interesting Ausbuilt keep em coming.


Rome not built in a day mate 

I can nearly feel when im under 5.6...weird really, that ever so slight light headedness deffo always indicates to me, and when I test its not been over when I feel like that.

I hear you on the test strips though 50 for 20 quid ish......scandalous.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> Rome not built in a day mate
> 
> I can nearly feel when im under 5.6...weird really, that ever so slight light headedness deffo always indicates to me, and when I test its not been over when I feel like that.
> 
> I hear you on the test strips though 50 for 20 quid ish......scandalous.


true mate, I've been going 15 weeks now... and by the looks of things, i'll be going another 12-16 to get down to single digit fat... I know I could do it quicker if dropped the carb up, but I'm super happy with the muscle size, so i will keep it going as is.. process works, but its not quick... of course thats my fault for "bulking up" to 23% fat in the first place... was a pleasant process that "bulking up" but I will never be that lazy again...

yeah you can, after awhile correlate your BG level/mood and feel when you're under 5.6- I only test now, if I don't feel right, or if i've eaten something I don't usually, as I've tested sooooo many foods! LOL I get my test strips at Tesco pharmacies- they often have a good deal.

No need to worry/go broke on test strips- but for beginning keto diets they are invaluable; you should know your food choices now to keep you in keto.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> true mate, I've been going 15 weeks now... and by the looks of things, i'll be going another 12-16 to get down to single digit fat... I know I could do it quicker if dropped the carb up, but I'm super happy with the muscle size, so i will keep it going as is.. process works, but its not quick... of course thats my fault for "bulking up" to 23% fat in the first place... was a pleasant process that "bulking up" but I will never be that lazy again...
> 
> yeah you can, after awhile correlate your BG level/mood and feel when you're under 5.6- I only test now, if I don't feel right, or if i've eaten something I don't usually, as I've tested sooooo many foods! LOL I get my test strips at Tesco pharmacies- they often have a good deal.
> 
> No need to worry/go broke on test strips- but for beginning keto diets they are invaluable; you should know your food choices now to keep you in keto.


Yes bud, have tried all different combo's so know what keeps me under and what takes me over, so the cost of test strip usage should come down this week lol

Im in two minds whether to try the carb up when you say how much it slows down bodyfat reduction, but at the same time, so tempting to re-comp fully too and stay a similar weight.....got around 17 weeks to my goal in reality...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78:

on the plus side, keto food is cheap  no need for expensive fruits etc! LOL cheap mince, and cheese can keep you going if you don't mind repeat meals that are the same/similar.. LOL

and yeah, i went for the re-comp over the straight strip as i figure i still have time before summer ;-)


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> Jim78:
> 
> on the plus side, keto food is cheap  no need for expensive fruits etc! LOL cheap mince, and cheese can keep you going if you don't mind repeat meals that are the same/similar.. LOL
> 
> and yeah, i went for the re-comp over the straight strip as i figure i still have time before summer ;-)


Hmmm.....maybe deffo me worth thinking it over?

I have now got hold of some GH, so it would be nice to see a little fatloss from that too.

I tried a few cheeses yesterday but some tripped me over 5.6 I think as didn't factor in the extra protein they carry aswell as fats...doh!

just wondered, anyone tried the Herta frankfurter sausages? 10 for £1.99 - 4.5g protein and 9g fat per sausage, a bit of saturated in there but zero carbs and 98kcals per sausage and can eat them from the packet as kinda like party sausages lol, I actually really like them, they taste too good for diet food....surely lol??

I have th emissus on the case for some anchor thick squirty cream today, Evoo is very bloody good but gettig a bit repetitive lol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> Hmmm.....maybe deffo me worth thinking it over?
> 
> I have now got hold of some GH, so it would be nice to see a little fatloss from that too.
> 
> ...


I have to say the HGH (combined with T4) has made the most difference fat loss wise- I've tried dieting (keto) before, and lost fat; but the fat loss (while gaining muscle) is amazing, and the diff is being able to use 'slin (quite a bit of it) with GH (and T4) its all very synergistic..

T4 is cheap:

http://www.unitedpharmacies.co.uk/home.php?cat=22

grab some eltroxin to go with your HGH (you've read my protocol about measuring body temp before using HGH, and T4?)

i never get sick of anchor squirty cream (tesco and sainsbury carry it, i never seem to get it my waitrose as they only carry the "light version" which replaces some of the fat with carbs, and is no good for keto..)


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> I have to say the HGH (combined with T4) has made the most difference fat loss wise- I've tried dieting (keto) before, and lost fat; but the fat loss (while gaining muscle) is amazing, and the diff is being able to use 'slin (quite a bit of it) with GH (and T4) its all very synergistic..
> 
> T4 is cheap:
> 
> ...


Aus, not seen your gh/t4 body temp protocol mate, any links bud?


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## j1mmytt (Jan 12, 2011)

ewww i dont like frankfurters, i did buy some for my keto but they had bits of gristle in them and really put me off so i fed them to the dogs and they threw them up lol.

I have squirty cream  great stuff, i also like taramasalata and cheap burgers  i also make my own burgers, i make a bulk load of meals for example il fry off some mushrooms with whatever oil i feel like at the time then bit of garlic, and some white wine which will be reduced so no alchohol left in the pan, then add full fat cream and some stock, il add chopped squares of salmon, broccoli or asparagus and let it cook till its done. The cream will be nicely reduced and tasty  il then portion it all and store in fridge for when i need it.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> Aus, not seen your gh/t4 body temp protocol mate, any links bud?


T4 is a "pro-hormone" style of thyroid medication that requires the body to convert it to the active T3.

Now if you are on GH, its ESSENTIAL you take T4:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...th-hormone.htm

I don't always agree with anthony roberts (particularly his type I/II steroid classification), however in this case he is SPOT on, based on science, and personal experience.

Now, if you're NOT on GH, then taking T3 is fine, and lets you ARTIFICIALLY set a higher metabolic set point.

The reason people think T4 does f**K all is that you have to take a higher dosage (100mcg T4 converts to roughly 25mcg T3.... IF the body requires it.. so you might not get full conversion).

However, on the plus side, you can take T4 for six months most likely...

The protocol is:

Take your morning body temperature 5 mornings in a row (upon awaking, before leaving bed).

Start your T4; start at at 50mcg for the first week, soon as you get up, 30mins before breakfast (or at least dairy food).

-keep taking your morning body temp- it should increase.

-when it stops increasing for 3 mornings in a row, you can increase your dosage by 50mcg to 100mcg

-your temp should increase a little, or if not, at least stay at the high range of normal.

-if your body temp FALLS by 0.6 deg celcius 3 mornings a row, your own thyroid is reducing output- you have a choice, increase dosage to counteract (if you have not reached your goals) or STOP your T4 consumption.

-if you keep going, increase to 150mcg, if it falls again, increase to 200mcg.. but then if it drops againg, consider stopping both GH and T4

If you stop, keep measuring your body temp- it will vary, but should go back to original levels in about 2-3weeks indicating your thryoid has re-bounded.. then you can start again.

its essential to use a good thermometer:

http://www.boots.com/en/Braun-Thermo...-IRT4520_797/a


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

j1mmytt said:


> ewww i dont like frankfurters, i did buy some for my keto but they had bits of gristle in them and really put me off so i fed them to the dogs and they threw them up lol.
> 
> I have squirty cream  great stuff, i also like taramasalata and cheap burgers  i also make my own burgers, i make a bulk load of meals for example il fry off some mushrooms with whatever oil i feel like at the time then bit of garlic, and some white wine which will be reduced so no alchohol left in the pan, then add full fat cream and some stock, il add chopped squares of salmon, broccoli or asparagus and let it cook till its done. The cream will be nicely reduced and tasty  il then portion it all and store in fridge for when i need it.


i don't mind those frankfurters at all! nice change... and i love your style of burger- all good excuse to have a nice dollop of mayonnaise.. mmm


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I may have a BG which is incorrectly calibrated. I am consistently hitting readings about 3 which is good as I should be in keto and am taking 1500mg Metformin a day.

Anyhow, I measured before a meal yesterday and I was 3.2. I ate a 6 egg omelette with cheese and olive oil and took two readings approx 30 mins later = 0.7 and 1.2 (I did take 500mg Metformin before the meal).

Now, can these readings be correct or do I have a dodgy BG meter?


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Huntingground said:


> I may have a BG which is incorrectly calibrated. I am consistently hitting readings about 3 which is good as I should be in keto and am taking 1500mg Metformin a day.
> 
> Anyhow, I measured before a meal yesterday and I was 3.2. I ate a 6 egg omelette with cheese and olive oil and took two readings approx 30 mins later = 0.7 and 1.2 (I did take 500mg Metformin before the meal).
> 
> Now, can these readings be correct or do I have a dodgy BG meter?


you'd be seriously shaking like a ****ting dog with BG readings that low mate, sounds a bit off for sure, is it a self calibrating one or need setting up etc?


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> i don't mind those frankfurters at all! nice change... and i love your style of burger- all good excuse to have a nice dollop of mayonnaise.. mmm


Ive omitted them at the moment lol, I know the profile of them is perfect but I just cannot get my head around eating them and dieting.....its me, I know! but Ive just gone back to eggs, chicken, tuna with oil, added in some cheese as a sanity saver, but will prob buy a pack of the Herta sausages by the week-end lol


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Jim,

I believe it is a self-calibrating one. It is the Bayer one which Aus always recommends.

Cheers.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Huntingground said:


> Jim,
> 
> I believe it is a self-calibrating one. It is the Bayer one which Aus always recommends.
> 
> Cheers.


Strange then mate, those are really low readings, really low! Ive been on verge of hypo a few times and you drip with sweat and get all giddy/lightheaded and heart pounding.......id say those symptoms would be those readings......

Bump for Ausbuilt!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> Strange then mate, those are really low readings, really low! Ive been on verge of hypo a few times and you drip with sweat and get all giddy/lightheaded and heart pounding.......id say those symptoms would be those readings......
> 
> Bump for Ausbuilt!


the body is a strange thing, and the TKD/CKD diet an even stranger animal..

Thanks to Huntingground (I think as I have the email, but deleted the PM) I've once again got a copy of my "bible" the bodyopus book on PDF; I've got hand written notes from my own version from a few years ago, which i always refer to, so nice to have the full version again.... the point is. I reviewed the carb up section, and looked over my graphs/notes of my BG readings- interestingly i've "felt hypo" at around 4.4-5.0 at times.. (i.e sweat dripping of my brow, stumbling over my words..) yet managed to be fine at 3.8 plenty of times... and my graph indicates why... the days I have hypo symptoms.. are, unsurpsingly leg days.. while i follow the same carb-up every day (pretty close), and have the same 4iu 'slin shot post workout (carbless), every monday I feel hypo.. and its post legs... I obviously more completely deplete my glycogen reserves (liver and muscle) on leg days... so that even though my BG reads 4.4, I feel much lower... as there are no reserves to call on.. i also note that occasionally this happens on wednesdays.. which happens to be back day.. has never happened on delts/chest day... ever....

However, everyone is individual, and I have no doubt huntinground is hitting 3.x with met (or 'slin- believe me, if you don't hit 3.x with 'slin, you just add an extra unit until you do..you WILL hit it, problem is could be a bit sudden, and it does not mean you are in deeper ketosis, more that you have moved through gluconeogenesis faster (my theory). I would lay money that Huntingground moves through this phase faster than Jim78 due to HIGHER AAS dosages and use of thyroid...


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Good post mate, makes perfect sense. I seem to never go lower than say, 3.8 at most, but I suppose as long as Im under the threshold Im om ok.


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## switch (Jan 5, 2011)

Great post Aus top info very interesting.


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