# SouthCoast Girl diet/good posts on low carb diet and fat loss



## southcoastgirl

I am currently 92kgs (203pounds) and at around 37%bodyfat. :boohoo: mg:

I am 5 foot 7inches in height. I want to reduce my bodyfat levels to around 15%. I do 30 mins of cardio first thing, mixing it up between steady and interval work cos thats what I enjoy. I then weight train 3-4 times per week in the early evenings.

I want to lose weight at the rate of about 2 pounds per week which means I need to reduce food intake by 7000 calories a week, but this isn't taking into account calories lost through more exercise.

I worked out if I ate 1800 calories a day and ate 1.5g protein/pound lean body mass I would need the following:

40g from fat (~ 10%)

192 g from protein (~ 48%)

168 g from carbs (~ 42%)

Does this seem OK and is 1800 calories enough energy? :bounce: All comments gratefully received.


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## 3752

i reckon you should try a improvised carb cycling diet.

i helped my sister drop 10 dress sizes in 12 months by using this diet this is the diet she did.

*Diet:*

-4 egg whites 2 yolks scrambled(you can add a little low fat cheese for taste)

-1 scoop protein drink + 1 serving of seeds

-Tuna(1 tin) or 150g chicken + salad(loads of)

-1 scoop protein drink + 1 serving of seeds

-200g chicken or turkey + veg (twice a week have 200g salmon instead)

once a week maybe on a sat or sun eat whatever you want within reason this will help stimulate your metabolism again plus raise your leptin levels.

drink 4L of water per day.

*supplements:*

1g vit C

2 x B complex

2 x Multi Vit(am\pm)

a decent fatburner Extreme nutrition have a very good one that worked great on my sister

*Cardio:*

i would increase the cardio slowly to 2 sessions of 30min 5 x week.

*Training:*

increase your training to at least 4 times per week this ill increase the amount of muscle you have wich in turn will burn fat.

hope this helps.


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## Carlos901

nice, nice post pscarb

Note by Peg: See measurements and cooking tips in recipe forum for Carlos' excellent post calculating caloric needs.


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## spiritse

I was at the gym yesterday and the owner was saying the way i worked out was wrong, I was doing cardio to start off but to get the most out of the workout i should start with weights as this would burn the carbs and protein off quicker. then switch to cardio as it would start burning the fat faster and the results would be better.

Not sure if this is true or not, but someone might be able to advise


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## 3752

start your own thread and we will help you..


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## southcoastgirl

Pscarb said:


> hope this helps.


Thanks pscarb and a happy new year to you!


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## trickymicky69

spiritse said:


> I was at the gym yesterday and the owner was saying the way i worked out was wrong, I was doing cardio to start off but to get the most out of the workout i should start with weights as this would burn the carbs and protein off quicker. then switch to cardio as it would start burning the fat faster and the results would be better.
> 
> Not sure if this is true or not, but someone might be able to advise


there is no wrong way to work out. it works good if it works for you


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## southcoastgirl

Tatyana said:


> THis will give you what your body requires for all of your basic biological processes, such as digestion, nerve transmission, respiration etc, or your basal metabolic rate.
> 
> NEVER DROP YOUR CALORIES BELOW THIS LEVEL!!!!!


Great post there Tatyana. However, stupid question coming up. Theoretically, my BMR is roughly 1650cals. I work out doing 30-45 mins cardio most days and every other night i do between 1-2hrs weight training. In between I have a sit down office job.

I am cutting hard for a show. However, I cant seem to lose weight unless I drop cals to around 1500. This is less than the BMR so here is the dumb question.......Why shouldnt I diet below the BMR? Will it harm me to do this for a couple of months?

After all it seemed the norm once upon a time for people to be on 1000 cals a day diets when I was younger! :lift:


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## hackskii

Id drop the cals 500 a day which by the end of the week would be 3500 cals or 1 lb.

If you burn 200 cals on the tredmill then just drop the cals 300 and you still get the 500 less a day.

By the end of the week 1lb

If you drop it too low your metabolism slows down.

I really think your fats should be higher than 10% SouthCoastGirl.

Healthy diets you have to have more fat in your diet than that.

I know some bodybuilding dudes do 10% but you have to have fat in the diet to drop bodyfat.

Fat is the number one suppresser of insulin of any food, fiber being second.

Control insulin and you will control fat loss.

If you are eating enough protein to spare lean muscle mass you would be just fine.

Me personally, Id drop those carbs lower and up the fat.

Works for me.


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## Peg

I've read that if you increase your calorie expenditure with cardio and or weights you will burn off the extra calories. By maintaining the minimum calorie intake for your metabolism and increasing your expediture you do not use muscle protein for metabolism nor do you allow your body to think it is starving and so then it will use the fat stores for the extra caloric needs.


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## southcoastgirl

Hi Hackskii and also to PSCarb if you are reading this thread

After loads of reading and listening to lots of knowledgable folk on these boards, I have been experimenting with my diet. Here is a sample of my diet, and so far its working as I have lost weight, dont feel hungry, and I'm not bored with the food (yet).

I dont eat exactly the same foods every day but I do try to keep the ratios of fats/carbs/protein similar each day, and roughly in the same place. I also take san tight and siberian ginseng first thing each morning, and have evening primrose and fish oil or flax oil and glucosamine/msm at night before bed.

My main issue is drinking enough water whichI know I dont because I forget to drink sometimes but i am trying to find a way to fix this. Can I count the protein drinks in the water requirement as they are made with water? Oh and I do drink 2 cups of tea a day with semi-skimmed milk.

Your comments are most welcome.

*bfast** 464cals 4g fat 43gcarbs 44g protein*

50g cottage cheese

10g dried raisins

5g linseeds

2g dried blueberries

protein drink

45MINS CARDIO HERE (every day)

*snack** 189cals 7g fat 27gcarbs 6g protein*

30g oats in water

10g dried raisins

5g linseeds

5g chopped almonds

*lunch** 297cals 5g fat 15gcarbs 21g protein*

130g tuna

25g asparagus

100g cottage cheese

25g string beans

100g organic salsa

TRAIN HERE (WEIGHTS 1.5HRS AVERAGE) EVERY OTHER DAY

*snack** 230cals 2g fat 12gcarbs 42g protein*

lean body protein drink

*dinner** 236cals 12g fat 3gcarbs 76g protein*

scrambled eggs ( 2yolks and 4whites)

50g cottage cheese

*supper** 183cals 3g fat 4gcarbs 35g protein*

casein protein drink

*TOTAL FOR DAY **1599cals 33g fat 105gcarbs 204g protein*

:lift:


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## hackskii

bfast 464cals 4g fat 43gcarbs 44g protein

*50g cottage cheese*

*
10g dried raisins*

*
5g linseeds*

*
2g dried blueberries *

*
protein drink*

I would drop the raisins and eat some almonds instead, or take 4 fish oils

*30g oats in water*

*
10g dried raisins*

*
5g linseeds*

*
5g chopped almonds*

Too many carbs and not enough proteins and fats here.

Drop the raisins, nuts and eat 2 eggs with this instead.

*130g tuna*

*
25g asparagus*

*
100g cottage cheese*

*
25g string beans*

*
100g organic salsa*

perfect here.

*lean body protein drink*

Take a 3 fish oils with this, but after a workout you can get away with just the protein and some carbs. So this is ok by itself. This is the only time I dont have a fat, all other meals I have fat with the meal.

*scrambled eggs ( 2yolks and 4whites)*

*
50g cottage cheese*

This is fine too.

*casein protein drink*

Fine too but if you want to slow down this protein add a fat to it.

Roughly You should have protein, fat and carbohydretes with each meal. Last meal considering you can have just fat and protein.

I like to have the same amount of fats, proteins and carbs together.

Contrary to popular demand, eating fat does not make you fat.

Carbs make you fat due to the responce from insulin.

There is no responce from insulin when fat is injested. Actually on the contrary fat supresses insulin.

Not only that but fats that are high in Omega 3 fatty acids actually have a anti-inflamitory responce on the body, lowering cholesterol, speeding metabolism, boosting immune system, aid in healing, mental health like helping depression, aid in the elasticity of skin, anti-aging, and the list goes on.


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## southcoastgirl

Gosh thanks for that quick reply Hackskii. Some really helpful tips there.

I read somewhere that its good to eat most of your carbs early on in the day (or just before and just after a workout), and more of the good fats later in the day so that is why I have worked out the diet the way I have. Do you think I am better spreading the carbs and fats out over the day and not worrying about time of day for these elements of the diet?

I understand the logic why u need to eat fats with carbs and I was therefore wondering what is the average ratio of fats to carbs I am aiming at if taking your approach.

Also when you mention fish oils, is there a particular brand of fish oil u were referring to ie are they capsules and what size are they each. At the moment I take a one a day fish oil capsule at bedtime.


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## southcoastgirl

Another thought as I sit here waffling my breakfast. How many egg yolks is it safe to eat a day or in a week even? I thought yolks contained cholesterol which is bad for you? just that if I replaced the raisins and nuts in meal 2 with some eggs, as suggested I would be eating 4 yolks in total that day.:lift: Gosh I do love my eggs though!!!!


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## hackskii

Well, eggs are funny.

They do raise cholesterol but both the good and bad so the ratio is still the same.

So, they are not as bad as they suggest.

You are correct about the carb deal here.

Early in the morning and after a workout.

This is the hardest time for the body to store those carbs as fat partally due to the fact that the glycogen stores are not full.

The liver can store about 70 grams of carbs and the muscles around 400 grams.

Anything over that and insulin will store this as fat.

So eating in excess of carbs will just store as fat and leave some triglycerides in the blood or blood stored fat.

That is not good.

So by keeping insulin in check and keeping enough food to not go into starvation mode and enough protein to keep your lean muscle mass you will be ok.

You will want to run a 500 calorie deficit and this will allow you to lose about a pound a week without shutdown of your metabolism.

For people that are not active a keto diet works very well.

Only concern is re-introducing carbs back into the program again, this must be slow and low GI carbs. Watching closely to your weight and seeing how much you slow and modify as needed.

I can help you with that later on if you feel intimidated by it, it is rather easy actually.

When going back to eating later on you will have good results with 40/30/30 or carbs/proteins/fats

This ratio is considered a zone type diet and very healthy.

Another diet is the Daitia and it is more like this 33/33/33

Works too.

Many people are sensitive to carbs.

Many people are insulin resistant.

Lowering the carbs, adding exercise and fish oils are the best way to become insulin sensitive.

Most heavy people that have belly fat are insulin resistant.

This is a problem for pre-diabetic conditions and excess inflamtion in the cardiovascular system, this is very bad.

Inflimation is a common condtion and untill just recently is recognised as a health concerning problem.

Ironicly I just bought a book last weekend on this.

Fish oils?

No brand in perticular, they should be refrigerated after opening, they are cheap and very good for you.....Very!


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## southcoastgirl

Lots of good advice there Hackskii. I have some more questions. Hope you dont mind!



hackskii said:


> So by keeping insulin in check and keeping enough food to not go into starvation mode and enough protein to keep your lean muscle mass you will be ok.
> 
> You will want to run a 500 calorie deficit and this will allow you to lose about a pound a week without shutdown of your metabolism.
> 
> Only concern is re-introducing carbs back into the program again, this must be slow and low GI carbs. Watching closely to your weight and seeing how much you slow and modify as needed.
> 
> Yep I understand all this OK However, I want to lose weight at a rate of about 2pounds a week to reach my weight goal by my target date. So I am currently running a 960 calorie deficit, and try one day a week to eat more carbs and fats than usual. Will I have an issue with metabolism when I come off the diet with this approach? I dont want to get fat again afterwards when I come off the diet
> 
> Many people are sensitive to carbs.
> 
> Many people are insulin resistant.
> 
> Lowering the carbs, adding exercise and fish oils are the best way to become insulin sensitive. What is insulin sensitive? Is this the same as insulin resistant?
> 
> Most heavy people that have belly fat are insulin resistant.
> 
> This is a problem for pre-diabetic conditions and excess inflamtion in the cardiovascular system, this is very bad.
> 
> Inflimation is a common condtion and untill just recently is recognised as a health concerning problem.


 :bounce:


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## hackskii

So I am currently running a 960 calorie deficit

If you do more cardio like lets say 200 calories 3 days a week you can do just subtract that from your total and add this in food.

Around 500 a day will equate to about 1 lb a week.

If you add in some cardio there is no reason why you cant lose 2 lbs a week.

You can have a carb up day to spark the metabolism and keep the thyroid going strong.

You may have a problem comming off the diet but remember you are at a calorie defecit.

So adding in some low GI carbs like berries, apples, asparagus, broccoli, green beans and such will have very little impact on weight gain.

Now if you go out and eat pizza and pasta every day then yes you for sure will have a problem.

But remember, adding the fish oils, exercise and a more ballanced diet will result in you lowering insulin resistance.

There are other factors here than just weight loss, namely inflamation. With insulin resistance, you run a high chance of getting Type 2 diabetes, not to mention excess inflamation, higher risk of heart disease and cancer. All indications of excess inflamtation.

If you control insulin, then when you come off the diet, eat right your own metabolism might just speed up some due to you not being calorie restricted.

You will have to probably add food to keep from losing more weight.

As long as you are smart on the food selections then there is no reason one day to go out and eat something that you really want to, just make sure your next meal is closer to the 40/30/30 approach to get you back to the insulin/glucagon ratio.

Glucagon is insulin's opposite and this is where Glucagon is released when blood sugar levels drop, stimulating the breakdown of stored fat into sugars which are released into the bloodstream.

If this ratio is ballanced then you will burn fat when needed and wont store fat when you dont want to.

This 40/30/30 approach works very well in this ballance between both of these hormones.

Not to mention the other healthfull benefits, like problems with weight, carbohydrate cravings, constant hunger, tiredness, brittle fingernails, limp hair and little texture, constipation, excessive sleep, groggy apon awakening, lack of mental concintration, lack of a sense of well being, headaches, fetigue, dry skin.

so, you can see how much of a powerfull effect food has on the body.

Food is the strongest drug you can put in your body.

What is insulin resistance?

This is when the body uses more insulin to do the job that less insulin should do. Or it takes more insulin to drive down blood sugars than it should use.

The pancreas ends up getting stressed and can shut down. This is type 2 diabetes.

Think of insulin as a transport hormone, your cells are doors, some times these doors get sortof like stuck. They should move freely.

Insulin sensitive is where the doors move freely and insulin resistance is where they are stuck.

Insulin is one of the strongest hormones in the body.

Diabetics have massive problems with health issues, circulation, eyesight, many things.

Fish oils, diet and lowering the carbohydrates down is a good idea for helping in this situation.

Not sure if I explained this alright but a copy and paste is pretty technical and might distract.


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## southcoastgirl

Thats a really great reply Hackskii. Thank you for answering my questions. Its much appreciated!! :bounce:


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## Tatyana

spiritse said:


> I was at the gym yesterday and the owner was saying the way i worked out was wrong, I was doing cardio to start off but to get the most out of the workout i should start with weights as this would burn the carbs and protein off quicker. then switch to cardio as it would start burning the fat faster and the results would be better.
> 
> Not sure if this is true or not, but someone might be able to advise


Hey this is my game plan whenever I am in 'fat burning' mode! Sucks being sweaty after doing weights, but hey, all the guys smell bad, and I smell lovely when I sweat! :bounce: lol


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## Tatyana

southcoastgirl said:


> Great post there Tatyana. However, stupid question coming up. Theoretically, my BMR is roughly 1650cals. I work out doing 30-45 mins cardio most days and every other night i do between 1-2hrs weight training. In between I have a sit down office job.
> 
> I am cutting hard for a show. However, I cant seem to lose weight unless I drop cals to around 1500. This is less than the BMR so here is the dumb question.......Why shouldnt I diet below the BMR? Will it harm me to do this for a couple of months?
> 
> After all it seemed the norm once upon a time for people to be on 1000 cals a day diets when I was younger! :lift:


Yes people did the 1000 kcal diets, and look how many people are OBESE today. All sorts of bonkers diets and weight loss things around, and the obesity epidemic continues, and is getting WORSE! To be truthful, low cal diets, like severely restricted work for about 4% of the population (always exceptions to the rules, physiological freaks!). It is my belief, and that of a number of other nutritionists, that so many people have slowed their metabolism to such a degree from calorie depleted diets, that the metabolism is already 'slow'.

Do your homework and do the counting thing about what you are eating NOW! If you are below the BMR, do not alter your calories greatly all in one go. Our bodies are clever, and the extra calories will be stored as fat! It is really tedious at first, but most agree, you will never get your diet sorted unless you go through this process.

If you are below your BMR, then adjust your calories back up slowly! By this I mean add 5-10% of what you are eating NOW, and then wait till THE HUNGER starts to tell you that your metabolism is gaining speed again. I get REALLY worried now if I am NOT super hungry every 3 hours, and I do find myself searching frantically for something if I have not been all that organised with my food and I have run out!

Severe calorie restricted diets are a 'quick fix' and most people usually rebound and end up gaining more weight! When you starve the fat, you also starve the muscle, and you lose muscle along with the fat. When you lose muscle, your metabolism slows down and your body enters 'starvation' mode. When your body enters starvation mode, fat loss comes to a halt as your body tries to conserve its energy. So when people then give up on these diets (and rebound and gain more fat back), or you have to drop your calories even further! This is SO WELL documented that DIETS DO NOT WORK! Yet people still persist with them. I thank my lucky stars that I only ever participated in one such 'starvation' diet while quite young, I got into the whole hippy healthy veggie thing quite young, and I do think it has saved my butt from getting too FAT! (I have been FAT though, so I do sympathise with those that have to lose loads of weight)! Another thread!

YOU BURN FAT WITH EXERCISE! I know this is hard for people to deal with after all the crazy low calorie diets, but the secret to permanent fat loss is to allow yourself to EAT MORE (of the right foods) and use exercise to burn off the fat. Most people do the opposite, slash calories and do not exercise.

Weight is not a good measure either! I am quite small, usually take a size 8, sometimes 6 (even though my bloody arms don't fit some things anymore!) but I almost always weigh around 60 kg, or close to 9.5 STONE! People look at me and think I weigh about 7.5 or 8 Stone!

I am a big fan of developing a life long way of eating that is relatively easy to maintain, not gimmicky or eliminates entire food groups (like the eliminating carbs or fats). I also think why make it any more difficult than it has to be!

One fantastic book is:

Chris Aceto Everything you need to know about fat loss

AND there is an e-book that I found that help me to confirm my ideas about eating, as there are a lot of BBers even that don't eat all that well ieither. He is a natural BBer, Tom Venuto and it is called BURN THE FAT FEED THE MUSCLE! Fantastic!

I follow a bit of a combo of this and macrobiotic diet, and my bodyfat has not been above about 15-16% since then! Healthy and permanent weight loss takes TIME! It is possible to lose about 0.5-1% body fat a week, and most physiologist believe that any more than this and you are losing lean tissue or muscle!

Once you have the muscle, and a certain body fat (the magic number for women is around 17%) it is so easy to maintain it is almost laughable! Your body will automatically direct calories, glucose whatever,into the muscle rather than into fat cells!

I would rather come into a comp a bit chub than slow my metabolism! Seriously! I know what you mean about the low calorie thing, it is tempting, as you will see dramatic weight loss quite quickly, but, in the long run, it is so DETRIMENTAL to your muscles and metabolism.


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## hackskii

Bump for work


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## Tatyana

And training!


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## JohnO

Dont you eat for the following day?

So eat more on day 1 to train more on day 2?


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## Tatyana

I try to eat what I will need on that day, so for example, if it is a day off, I might keep my calories around 1800 kcal/day. But not always, I do sometimes completely blow it out! Have done up to 5000 kcals on a comp day! mg: CHOCOLATE, I am drooling!

On a heavy training day, like legs, bring calories up, around 2400-2500 kcals

With running in the morning and then cardio and training at night, about 2900 kcal.

I also cycle my carbs, and what I have found works best for seriously cutting is high carb days on low cal days, and lower carbs on high cal days!

I will post more about this, but I am on last day of carb depletion and I am KNACKERED!


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## hackskii

Tatyana said:


> This also goes back to the basic premise that you cannot lose weight by diet alone!


Are you serious?

This is just not true.

If diet got the overweight person into the position he or she is in, then why not use diet to get that person out of the position he or she is in?

What possibly makes more sense than this?

To burn just one can of coke off it would take you about 15 minutes to burn using the above approach.

Not saying anyone drinks this garbage but why not just limit the item in question than burn it off as a cal?

Restricting just 500 calories a day at the end of just one week you will lose 1lb.

That is 3500 calories.

How long would it take for you to burn this off with cardio?

Almost 4 and a half hours.

You can lose weight with diet alone, I have done it and I am doing it.

Not only that but people that dont exercise and want to burn a lb of bodyweight off doing over 4 hours of cardio a week run a risk of injury.

Who has 4 hours to burn those cals off when it can be done just with some small restrictions of food?

Insulin makes you fat and controlling insulin makes you lose fat. Pure and simple.

I seriously dont think I am going to yo-yo after I lose the weight.

I can tell you it wont come back unless I choose it to.

No faster fat loss than controlling insulin period.

Sure cardio is good for you.

But for you to make the statement that *"you cannot lose weight with diet"* is wrong. You can and I know alot of people that prove this.

So what would be better to say if you want to lose 1 lb of bodyweight a week you can use the 500 rule of cals by diet and cardio.

For instance 200 cals burned from cardio and 300 from restriction of food.

You will not slow your metabolism restricting 500 cals a day in your diet.

Plus resistance training burns fat for up to 3 days.

Cardio will not do this.

Better still circuit training where you use weights and fast pace hitting the whole body, better than cardio alone.

I think you got your fat deffinitions a bit off too.

30% fat in the diet is by far the most healthy.

Best to keep the insulin down and very healthy.

Going below this promotes fat gain.

You need to read up on the benefits of fat in the body.

Eating fat does not make you fat.

Eating carbs make you fat, especially high glycemic carbs.

Ketosis usually happens under 30 grams or less.

I can eat zero carbs and never get into ketosis, I have keto strips to test this myself.


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## Tatyana

3 groups of people

One on diet alone

One with diet and exercise

One control group

Control group did not lose weight

Diet and exercise and diet group lost weight

Diet and exercise group lost fat

Diet alone group ended up just being smaller fat people

So ok, yes you lose weight, but it is the quality of the weight loss.

THe majority of people on 'diets' rebound and gain more weight than they lost.

Diet and exercise is necessary for fat loss, gain lean mass, all good.

Sloppy writing.


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## Tatyana

hackskii said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> This is just not true.
> 
> If diet got the overweight person into the position he or she is in, then why not use diet to get that person out of the position he or she is in?
> 
> What possibly makes more sense than this?
> 
> To burn just one can of coke off it would take you about 15 minutes to burn using the above approach.
> 
> Not saying anyone drinks this garbage but why not just limit the item in question than burn it off as a cal?
> 
> Restricting just 500 calories a day at the end of just one week you will lose 1lb.
> 
> That is 3500 calories.
> 
> How long would it take for you to burn this off with cardio?
> 
> Almost 4 and a half hours.
> 
> You can lose weight with diet alone, I have done it and I am doing it.
> 
> Not only that but people that dont exercise and want to burn a lb of bodyweight off doing over 4 hours of cardio a week run a risk of injury.
> 
> Who has 4 hours to burn those cals off when it can be done just with some small restrictions of food?
> 
> Insulin makes you fat and controlling insulin makes you lose fat. Pure and simple.
> 
> I seriously dont think I am going to yo-yo after I lose the weight.
> 
> I can tell you it wont come back unless I choose it to.
> 
> No faster fat loss than controlling insulin period.
> 
> Sure cardio is good for you.
> 
> But for you to make the statement that *"you cannot lose weight with diet"* is wrong. You can and I know alot of people that prove this.
> 
> So what would be better to say if you want to lose 1 lb of bodyweight a week you can use the 500 rule of cals by diet and cardio.
> 
> For instance 200 cals burned from cardio and 300 from restriction of food.
> 
> You will not slow your metabolism restricting 500 cals a day in your diet.
> 
> Plus resistance training burns fat for up to 3 days.
> 
> Cardio will not do this.
> 
> Better still circuit training where you use weights and fast pace hitting the whole body, better than cardio alone.
> 
> I think you got your fat deffinitions a bit off too.
> 
> 30% fat in the diet is by far the most healthy.
> 
> Best to keep the insulin down and very healthy.
> 
> Going below this promotes fat gain.
> 
> You need to read up on the benefits of fat in the body.
> 
> Eating fat does not make you fat.
> 
> Eating carbs make you fat, especially high glycemic carbs.
> 
> Ketosis usually happens under 30 grams or less.
> 
> I can eat zero carbs and never get into ketosis, I have keto strips to test this myself.


Not my definitions, note that I REFERENCE things I copy out of a book.

I just thought that SOME type of definition of low/moderate/high carb might be useful as we throw these terms around so much.


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## hackskii

Well, I guess that each has their own interpretation of what is low or not.

Guys that like fat women think regular women are too thin.

Guys that like skinny women think other women are too fat.

But what guides the interrupter?

If I can prove that a diet consisting of 30% total calories was from fat and this was the healthiest then all the books, magazines and everything else is just rubbish.

This is my position.

You say this group that did not lose fat without exercise I totally find hard to believe.

Let's just use me for example.

No cardio well 3 sessions in 7-8 weeks

I have lost 14.5 lbs and 4 ¼" on my waist.

If for example for every 3.4 lbs I lost an inch on my waist.

If you know anything about a man's body then you would know that he stores fat on his waist.

Now with your findings of this post, it would be assumed that I lost just both fat and muscle.

I do lift so this might be an anomaly. But you said on another post that you had to do cardio which I don't and have lost fat.

That much weight compared to inches is clearly fat in my book.

Now let's go back, 9 years ago I was on a macrobiotic diet (zone) and lost 23 lbs.

Back then for every 5 lbs I lost I lost 1"

Oh wait a minute here is this math right?

I ate healthier with more carbs and did in fact do cardio and lift weights.

Back then when I got down to my target bodyweight I was looking for I had a waist smaller than when I was 18 and I was 37 years old. I weighed more and was stronger than I was at 18 (I lifted then too).

So I am losing more inches with less weight.

Does this sound like I am losing muscle and fat in the same quantity?

When I look in the mirror, I look better.

If I was losing muscle and fat together in the same quantity would I not look the same just smaller?

No I look better, way better.

Just using myself as an example ruins your little group diet scenario.

I guess I must be the spoiler in all this and purely an isolated case.

Yah right

Again if diet got the person in the position of being fat in the first place you are saying it takes more than diet to get the person out of the situation they are in?

If a person got fat by eating too much then eating less he will still be fat but just a smaller proportionate fat person?

If insulin was packing on the fat due to it being a storage hormone, would not controlling insulin be the first step in not storing fat?

For some reason I really don't think you get the concept of how fat is stored and how fat is removed from the body.

You can remove fat from the body by diet alone.

It is not rocket science or some mystery thing.

This diet I am talking about came around in the 1860's

This is nothing new.

Running yourself into the ground doing cardio in an effort to burn off the fat is madness. I know a lady that did cardio every day for 2 hours so she could eat M&M's, guess what she had a big ass and a skinny upper body.

Did cardio do it for her?

Nope.

I have showed you studies but refused to believe them.

At least I posted the place where my study took place, the people that ran the study.

What did you give me?

Your argument does not hold water.


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## hackskii

*Fat burning*

Lets look at some research that supports the fat burning theory, this time from the Oakland Navel Hospital. Impressed with the Kekwick and Pawan success, Frederick Beoit and his associates decided to compare a 1000 calorie, 10-grams-of-carbohydrate, high-fat diet with fasting. Using seven men weighing between 230 and 290 pounds. They used state of the art body composition technology. After ten days, the fasting subjects lost 21 pounds on average, but most of that was lean body weight; only 7.5 pounds was body fat. However on the controlled carbohydrate regimen over the same period of time, 10 of the 14.5 pounds lost was body fat. Think of it. By eating foods low in carbohydrate and high in dietary fat, subjects burned their fat stores almost twice as fast as when they ate nothing at all!

Benoit's other exciting discovery was that on a fat burning regimen, subjects maintained their potassium levels, while subjects who fasted experienced major potassium losses. (potassium depletion can cause heart arrhythmia, which in severe cases, can be fatal.)

*Still not convinced? *

Try this one. Charlotte Young, professor of clinical nutrition at Cornell University, compared the results of overweight young men placed on three diets, all providing 1800 calories, but with varying degrees of carbohydrate restriction. The regimens contained 30, 60, and 104 grams of carbohydrate, and subjects followed them for nine weeks. Young and her colleagues calculated body fat through a widely accepted technique involving immersion underwater.

Those on the 104 grams of carbs lost slightly better than 2 pounds of fat per week out of 2.73 pounds of total weight loss-not bad for 1800 calories.

Those on 60 grams of carbs lost nearly 2.5 pounds of fat per week out of 3 pounds of actual weight loss-better.

But those on 30 grams of carbs, the only situation that produced lipolysis and the secondary process of ketosis lost 3.73 pounds of fat per week approximately one hundred percent of their total weight loss.

Several other studies have shown that you can consume more calories and lose more weight than on low fat programs.

One study done in Glasgow described overweight women who after three months had lost 14.5 pounds on a thirty-five-percent carbohydrate diet of 1200 calories and 12.3 pounds on a fifty-eight percent carbohydrate diet of 1200 calories. That's fairly slow weight loss and pretty strict caloric deprivation. The advantage went to the lower-carbohydrate diet as always, but the lesson is that stricter carbohydrate control makes for an even more successful weight loss plan.

Two facts should be noted: first, in all cases, the lower carbohydrate group did lose more weight than the higher-carbohydrate group. Second, in two of the studies cardiovascular risk factors improved significantly but only in the subjects who were on a lower carbohydrate intake. The folks who got put on a high-carbohydrate diet showed no significant improvements in these health indicatiors.

That leaves one last study, which was really a blowout. Published in the Journal of Adolescent Health in 2000, it reported on a group of obese adolescents put on a controlled carbohydrate diet with no restriction on calories for three months and meticulously monitored throughout that period. By design the regimen was based on the Atkins approach. The group was compared with a control group put on a low fat diet.

The results? Well, naturally the adolescents lost significantly more weight on the controlled carbohydrate diet than on the low fat diet. The written records indicated that at the end of the trial the adolescents in the controlled carbohydrate group had averaged 1830 calories daily, while the adolescents in the low fat group had consumed 1100 calories. The controlled carbohydrate group averaged 21.7 pounds lost, compared to 9.1 pounds for the low-fat group, and a significant improvement in body mass index (BMI), compared with the low-fat dieters.

As studies like this become increasingly common, opposition to a controlled carbohydrate nutritional approach should fall away even more quickly than has already been the case in recent years.

*Another study:*

Published in the Journal of Adolescent Health in 2000, it reported on a group of obese adolescents put on a controlled carbohydrate diet with no restriction on calories for three months and meticulously monitored throughout that period. By design the regimen was based on the Atkins approach. The group was compared with a control group put on a low fat diet.

The results? Well, naturally the adolescents lost significantly more weight on the controlled carbohydrate diet than on the low fat diet. The written records indicated that at the end of the trial the adolescents in the controlled carbohydrate group had averaged 1830 calories daily, while the adolescents in the low fat group had consumed 1100 calories. The controlled carbohydrate group averaged 21.7 pounds lost, compared to 9.1 pounds for the low-fat group, and a significant improvement in body mass index (BMI), compared with the low-fat dieters.

*Another study:*

One study done in Glasgow described overweight women who after three months had lost 14.5 pounds on a thirty-five-percent carbohydrate diet of 1200 calories and 12.3 pounds on a fifty-eight percent carbohydrate diet of 1200 calories. That's fairly slow weight loss and pretty strict caloric deprivation. The advantage went to the lower-carbohydrate diet as always, but the lesson is that stricter carbohydrate control makes for an even more successful weight loss plan.

Two facts should be noted: first, in all cases, the lower carbohydrate group did lose more weight than the higher-carbohydrate group. Second, in two of the studies cardiovascular risk factors improved significantly but only in the subjects who were on a lower carbohydrate intake. The folks who got put on a high-carbohydrate diet showed no significant improvements in these health indicators.

*Still not convinced? *

Try this one. Charlotte Young, professor of clinical nutrition at Cornell University, compared the results of overweight young men placed on three diets, all providing 1800 calories, but with varying degrees of carbohydrate restriction. The regimens contained 30, 60, and 104 grams of carbohydrate, and subjects followed them for nine weeks. Young and her colleagues calculated body fat through a widely accepted technique involving immersion underwater.

Those on the 104 grams of carbs lost slightly better than 2 pounds of fat per week out of 2.73 pounds of total weight loss-not bad for 1800 calories.

Those on 60 grams of carbs lost nearly 2.5 pounds of fat per week out of 3 pounds of actual weight loss-better.

But those on 30 grams of carbs, the only situation that produced lipolysis and the secondary process of ketosis lost 3.73 pounds of fat per week approximately one hundred percent of their total weight loss.


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## hackskii

TIGS said:


> *hackskii, what is it that you do for your day job?*
> 
> *Damm you know your s**t! *


I am an Inspector at a big Aircraft company with lots of time on my hands

thanks for the compliment


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## Tatyana

Hackskii,

THe zone diet is not a macrobiotic one, I think you mean macronutrient balance in the zone diet. Please alter your post as people get confused enough as it is with diet.

Macrobiotics refers to a traditional Japanese diet that was 'reintroduced' by George Osawa and brought to North America and Europe by Michio Kushi (or the other way around with the two men). It is quite involved and is based on eating whole natural foods that are neither too yin (basically sugar or expansive) or yang (again salt or contractive). Brown rice is thought to be perfectly balanced between the two. Sea vegetables, beans, vegetables and greens are usually eaten in every meal. Food is in season and locally grown. There is also a consideration to balance the five elementals, fire, wood, water, earth, metal and the five flavours, salty, sweet, sour, bitter and uname (me thinks) which means 'meaty'. That is just the start of some of the basic premises of the diet.

x

T


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## Peg

Tatyana and Hackskii:

I think there is validity to both of your arguments about losing fat with diet alone and both diet and exercise.

I have done both.

The bottom line is what works best for the person taking all factors of health and fitness concerns into account.

Cutting 500 calories from a diet is a good way to begin but what is really being affected by doing that is a change of eating habits.

Until the eating habits are changed nothing else will change.

I see diet and/or diet and exercise as stepping stones to fat loss and both can be used. Either one can be better depending on where you are in the process of fat loss and where you are in your overall health and fitness.

Now, as I was once seriously overweight 6 years ago, I can say that part of my need was to exercise having been very athletic in the past, I needed and wanted to exercise to get my muscles back in shape and to increase my stamina.

I also know that if I exercise, I can add on lean muscle and keep my metabolism burning calories for a longer period of time.

So, I stopped drinking the cokes and I started walking.

I lost weight, got to a plateau, and decided to increase the exercise instead of decrease the calories because I love to eat and the social interaction of eating with others.

But someone else may decide they want to cut the calories.

It is also a matter of how patient you are to remove the fat.

If you have a short deadline then you need to do more than just drastically cut your calories for the sake of your body not adapting and going into the "starvation" mode which means hitting a nasty plateau that can be difficult to overcome.

If you give yourself a longer time to lose the weight then cutting just the calories can lose fat, but even then at some point the body will adapt and then what?

I have always said listen to the body. It is good at telling you what you need to eat and when.

Take a look at the body fat on infants. Their bodies will ask for more food and put on fat to have the energy source available for certain periods of growth.

Our body will ask for the same things to counter stress in our lives and also for the energy needs that our body has at any given age.

You both have valid viewpoints.


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## hackskii

I just added in the cardio after 14 weeks of dieting and I was getting stuck.

Doing a half an hour a day on my treadmill to work up to it.

I do think both are a great way and in fact the best way but I did lose over 20 lbs with zero cardio, the last 5-10 will be with cardio.

Summer here I come, just a little over 5 weeks and river time


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## Peg

You go Hackskii, I've been cheering for you all the time.

I agree with you, you don't have to have cardio. It just helps and makes it come off faster, I think.

I wouldn't consider the walking I did as a sweating cardio.

I was just moving my body again and lost the first big weight mainly by curbing how much I ate and changing what I ate.

Walking was just good stress relief for me at the time.


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## Tatyana

I think I was sloppy with my typing again, I think if your are weight training, properly, no need for cardio.

Yes you can lose weight with diet alone, but end up just being smaller and fat, whereas training will give you lean tissue, end up smaller and toned!

I save my serious cardio now for the last few weeks before a comp, my body adjusts quickly to running, so other than that, walking on an incline to warm up, X-trainer,and of course I walk loads and ride my push bike around, JOY summer is almost here.

ALso now with the new 'Taty's' I will NOT be doing any serious running for at least a month and a half!

x

x

x

T


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## benji456

Hey my posts have been edited 3 times but I still havent got the message.

Maybe I should post in the correct forum?


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## Tinytom

Maybe you should

1. read rules

2. post in correct forum


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## drhighintensity

low carb diets are just ****ing RIDICULOUS imo.


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## Guest

drhighintensity said:


> low carb diets are just ****ing RIDICULOUS imo.


 WTF are you doing bringing up a thread that is over one year old with such a dumb ass statement?


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## Mtamae

Hey Southcoast Gurl!

You have received a lot of valuable information from everyone here.

I have worked with diabetics and bodybuilders and there is something these groups of people have in common - they both eat little an often.

Try not to over complicate things. Take the hints of some of the foods shown below and incorporate them into your daily meal management. GET CLEAN...learn about foods that have a high glycemic index (factor). Eat more green leafy veggies and green veges like broccoli.

From your first meal in the morning, make a note of the time you eat. Then eat every 2-3 hours from there on.

VERY IMPORTANT ... EAT ON TIME...Skipping meals will affect how your body metabolises food and can also increase your potentail to become to become protein deficient. And that is one thing Bodybuilders want to avoid.

E.g. 8am brkfast, 10am mid morning snack, 12pm lunch, 2pm early afternoon snack and so on. Muscle Fitness magazine has some great sample menus...get reading and learn more about this!

Prepare your foods the night before and carry them with you to ensure that you have what you need on hand. This will also assist you with not straying away too much from your eating regime.

BUY A SCALE....start measuring your carbs intake.

Try to eat between 20 - 35 grams of carbs at each meal period.

Play with this, everyone varies.

Listen to your body ... you will now when you need less or more, but try not to go over 40grams.

For your height you should be eating around 1800-2100 calories. This will vary according to your activity factor. On High intensity work out days...you may find you feel better when eating more... vice versa on Lower intensity days. YES ... you should modify your diet to have high carb days when working larger muscle groups (e.g legs) and have lower carb days when working smaller.

Be clear about what you want from your training in order to ensure your dietary needs work along with it to give you the desire results you are working towards.

Learn more about your body type and structure. My recommendation would be to have a few sessions with a personal trainer (and go to one from a body building gym...not dem panzy socialite type of gyms) if you want to get the real low down on how to sculpt your body... you need to seek out professional assistance.

I could go on and on...but rather leave you to it.

Feel free to ask me more if you found any of the information I offered you useful.

All the best.

Be well

Mtamae


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## hackskii

Mtamae said:


> Hey Southcoast Gurl!
> 
> You have received a lot of valuable information from everyone here.
> 
> I have worked with diabetics and bodybuilders and there is something these groups of people have in common - they both eat little an often.
> 
> Try not to over complicate things. Take the hints of some of the foods shown below and incorporate them into your daily meal management. GET CLEAN...learn about foods that have a high glycemic index (factor). Eat more green leafy veggies and green veges like broccoli.
> 
> From your first meal in the morning, make a note of the time you eat. Then eat every 2-3 hours from there on.
> 
> VERY IMPORTANT ... EAT ON TIME...Skipping meals will affect how your body metabolises food and can also increase your potentail to become to become protein deficient. And that is one thing Bodybuilders want to avoid.
> 
> E.g. 8am brkfast, 10am mid morning snack, 12pm lunch, 2pm early afternoon snack and so on. Muscle Fitness magazine has some great sample menus...get reading and learn more about this!
> 
> Prepare your foods the night before and carry them with you to ensure that you have what you need on hand. This will also assist you with not straying away too much from your eating regime.
> 
> BUY A SCALE....start measuring your carbs intake.
> 
> Try to eat between 20 - 35 grams of carbs at each meal period.
> 
> Play with this, everyone varies.
> 
> Listen to your body ... you will now when you need less or more, but try not to go over 40grams.
> 
> For your height you should be eating around 1800-2100 calories. This will vary according to your activity factor. On High intensity work out days...you may find you feel better when eating more... vice versa on Lower intensity days. YES ... you should modify your diet to have high carb days when working larger muscle groups (e.g legs) and have lower carb days when working smaller.
> 
> Be clear about what you want from your training in order to ensure your dietary needs work along with it to give you the desire results you are working towards.
> 
> Learn more about your body type and structure. My recommendation would be to have a few sessions with a personal trainer (and go to one from a body building gym...not dem panzy socialite type of gyms) if you want to get the real low down on how to sculpt your body... you need to seek out professional assistance.
> 
> I could go on and on...but rather leave you to it.
> 
> Feel free to ask me more if you found any of the information I offered you useful.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Be well
> 
> Mtamae


That was a nice refreshing post..............I liked it alot.........

Welcome to the board Mtamae.............................


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## cellaratt

Bump...  ...


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## MissBC

this thread is like 3 years old? why are you bumping it?


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## cellaratt

MissBC said:


> this thread is like 3 years old? why are you bumping it?


because I thought the information may still be helpful to others...  ...


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## niknak

hey, just joined and loving the site. im learning loads here :thumb:


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## Loveleelady

Pscarb said:


> i reckon you should try a improvised carb cycling diet.
> 
> i helped my sister drop 10 dress sizes in 12 months by using this diet this is the diet she did.
> 
> *Diet:*
> 
> -4 egg whites 2 yolks scrambled(you can add a little low fat cheese for taste)
> 
> -1 scoop protein drink + 1 serving of seeds
> 
> -Tuna(1 tin) or 150g chicken + salad(loads of)
> 
> -1 scoop protein drink + 1 serving of seeds
> 
> -200g chicken or turkey + veg (twice a week have 200g salmon instead)
> 
> once a week maybe on a sat or sun eat whatever you want within reason this will help stimulate your metabolism again plus raise your leptin levels.
> 
> drink 4L of water per day.
> 
> *supplements:*
> 
> 1g vit C
> 
> 2 x B complex
> 
> 2 x Multi Vit(am\pm)
> 
> a decent fatburner Extreme nutrition have a very good one that worked great on my sister
> 
> *Cardio:*
> 
> i would increase the cardio slowly to 2 sessions of 30min 5 x week.
> 
> *Training:*
> 
> increase your training to at least 4 times per week this ill increase the amount of muscle you have wich in turn will burn fat.
> 
> hope this helps.


sounds great - pscarb how many calories a day would this be roughly? ive started a new diet and not sure if it working for me so doin research for things similar


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## Loveleelady

hackskii said:


> Well, eggs are funny.
> 
> They do raise cholesterol but both the good and bad so the ratio is still the same.
> 
> So, they are not as bad as they suggest.
> 
> You are correct about the carb deal here.
> 
> Early in the morning and after a workout.
> 
> This is the hardest time for the body to store those carbs as fat partally due to the fact that the glycogen stores are not full.
> 
> The liver can store about 70 grams of carbs and the muscles around 400 grams.
> 
> Anything over that and insulin will store this as fat.
> 
> So eating in excess of carbs will just store as fat and leave some triglycerides in the blood or blood stored fat.
> 
> That is not good.
> 
> So by keeping insulin in check and keeping enough food to not go into starvation mode and enough protein to keep your lean muscle mass you will be ok.
> 
> You will want to run a 500 calorie deficit and this will allow you to lose about a pound a week without shutdown of your metabolism.
> 
> For people that are not active a keto diet works very well.
> 
> Only concern is re-introducing carbs back into the program again, this must be slow and low GI carbs. Watching closely to your weight and seeing how much you slow and modify as needed.
> 
> I can help you with that later on if you feel intimidated by it, it is rather easy actually.
> 
> When going back to eating later on you will have good results with 40/30/30 or carbs/proteins/fats
> 
> This ratio is considered a zone type diet and very healthy.
> 
> Another diet is the Daitia and it is more like this 33/33/33
> 
> Works too.
> 
> Many people are sensitive to carbs.
> 
> Many people are insulin resistant.
> 
> Lowering the carbs, adding exercise and fish oils are the best way to become insulin sensitive.
> 
> Most heavy people that have belly fat are insulin resistant.
> 
> This is a problem for pre-diabetic conditions and excess inflamtion in the cardiovascular system, this is very bad.
> 
> Inflimation is a common condtion and untill just recently is recognised as a health concerning problem.
> 
> Ironicly I just bought a book last weekend on this.
> 
> Fish oils?
> 
> No brand in perticular, they should be refrigerated after opening, they are cheap and very good for you.....Very!


amazing detail


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## 1010AD

I wonder how Southcoast girl is doing coz she started this thread 8 year ago


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## Loveleelady

1010AD said:


> I wonder how Southcoast girl is doing coz she started this thread 8 year ago


I know that's what I was thinking who knows she could be a pro bb er by now

amazing info on this thread - very helpful - hacksi excelled himeself


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## Smitch

1010AD said:


> I wonder how Southcoast girl is doing coz she started this thread 8 year ago


Probably Southcoast Woman now.


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