# cv training



## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

i want to start a debate. here goes my view regarding cv as part of your training routine. WHY and i mean why besides the fact its for wieght loss. i see no need for it if you want to build solid muscle cv does the opposit gets you fit but takes size of you. my view is you do enough cv in your traing routine any way so why do more, OK BRING IT ON AND PROVE ME WRONG


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Ok,

Validate your assertion that "CV takes size off you". Explain how.

On the flip side doing consistent CV work, for starters...

Increases metabolic rate and consequently cell turnover, so speeds muscle growth.

Has a favourable impact on insulin resistance (better glycogen storage, less fat storage)

Favourably effects nutrient partitioning (makes you less likely to store kcals as bf whilst gaining weight).

Increases local and general blood flow, increasing recovery speed from heavier sessions.

Has a favourable impact on blood lipid profile.

etc,etc.

Cheers,

G


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

constant cv work gets you fitter but the price is size or muscle mass. training alone does exactly the same ie blood flow lowers kcals exactly the same. your blood rushes into the muscle being worked going through the heart on route. it has all the same affects as cv so why the need to do cv if yoyr gettin the same affects


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

i just do long walks at adecent pace ihr most days,thats my c.v and fat burning in one and keeps mass


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Wee G said:


> Ok,
> 
> Validate your assertion that "CV takes size off you". Explain how.
> 
> ...


Superb post.

Not to mention the fact that it's extremely good for your heart.

cardio = good


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

that is enough people warm up useing cv approx 15mins fine do it myself prevemts injuries to cold muscle like wise warming down. ive spoke to some body builders they said they do a quick sprint distance not giviv but self explanitory all the same.


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

look every body knows you do the training for the sport your doin olypic runner / marathon runner dont see muscle bound marathon runner. [big] report came out a couple of years ago now saying it was more beneficial to have a brisk walk than it was to have a run. why simple brisk walk pumps muscle through the heart with out putting it through un called for pressure lessoning the risk of heart attacks. dont get me wrong i think cv is good but depending on what sport you are in . look we talk about to many sets to many routines and rep range .nobody mentions the fact that to much cv has the revers affects again high rise in fitness at a cost of mass size. ok could adjust your diet foe argument sake. easier to cut down the cv


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

big what body buiding ain good for your heart.?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

brett the heart said:


> big what body buiding ain good for your heart.?


As a lifestyle, no. Your heart doesn't appreciate carrying around excess weight.

In terms of exercise, sure. But there is only so much breaking down of muscle that's required.

Sensible cardio is extremely effective in so many ways.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

I have only just started doing cardio but I love it. I only do three 30min sessions a week and I havent noticed a dramatic loss in size, only water and fat - and I dont want those anyway  I'd rather have lean muscle than 'look' big - i'd rather BE big 

Plus if your doing AAS and peptides too, some will help combat catabolism (sp) so you shouldn't burn muscle anyway.


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

"constant cv work gets you fitter but the price is size or muscle mass."

Sorry but that is simply incorrect, for the reasons i listed above.

"training alone does exactly the same ie blood flow lowers kcals exactly the same. your blood rushes into the muscle being worked going through the heart on route. it has all the same affects as cv so why the need to do cv if yoyr gettin the same affects"

Incorrect again. The heart / lung adaptations to traditional low level CV work and resistance training are very different.

Can i hazard a gues that your dislike of CV work is more due to a lack of cardiovascular fitness?


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

doing cv enables you to get more macros in you without putting on extra fat, more protein = more muscle, plus you will look leaner and be healthier when bulking


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Sensible amounts or cardio will have no impact on lean mass retention IMO.

I can see the point you are making Mentzer advocated no cardio, however he may not the best example since he died of a heart condition :whistling:


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

l do you like cv work i used to be a cross country runner also ex forces so traning has always been a major factor in my life. as i said b4 i warm up and warm down. but i see people doin more cv work than actual trainin then ask why they aint puttin wieght on or building muscle. hense the question or debate as i put it over training. now i know i doont do a lot of cv my gains are ok im cut defined and still growin thats natural. i do go through the pain barrier i am very aggressive in t5he ogym i do believe no pain no gain . my mate does a shed load of cv . iasked why he did so much. he said he wanted to get rid of exess fat fine.it will do that but really come on are you really saying that you can do as much cv as you like without losing mass. great fitness is good for the heart like any thing i suppose .but to much cv can be like over training it can have a negative affect


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

kezz that is not through cv that is through gfood diet im all for that. you need to feed the body correcly to grow great no prob you are what you eat. you change your diet depending on what you do ie cuttin up pre show or out of season. that has no bearing on cv


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Aftershock said:


> Sensible amounts or cardio will have no impact on lean mass retention IMO.
> 
> I can see the point you are making Mentzer advocated no cardio, however he may not the best example since he died of a heart condition :whistling:


pmsl.....

True though.


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

brett the heart said:


> kezz that is not through cv that is through gfood diet im all for that. you need to feed the body correcly to grow great no prob you are what you eat. you change your diet depending on what you do ie cuttin up pre show or out of season. that has no bearing on cv


Wrong.

If someone is trying to put on lean muscle, they obviously have to eat surplus calories. If you are eating surplus, clean calories, combined with cardio every other day, it will keep fat at bay.

Check out Rightyo's thread. He's eating a fair bit (granted it's clean), & he's doing cardio every other day, I think. He's now got the same size waist what he had when he competed in September last year, but about 2 & a half stone heavier.

Yes, it's clean food, but the quantity would still put fat on if he wasn't doing cardio.


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

"....come on are you really saying that you can do as much cv as you like without losing mass"

Im saying if you do the right amount of CV you will gain MORE muscle mass, and be leaner, than if you do none.


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## brett the heart (May 11, 2008)

no you wont gain more muscle mass sorry have to disagree mate. the cardio cuts the fat and helps shed exess waterin whicth will help define the muscle more cos less fat covering the muscle. here rite why do body builders shave there heads. yeh makes you look biggeryou get a man with full head of hair and a bald man both the size measurements exactly. i know the bald man will look bigger.cv cuts fat giving more def to muscle.


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm not refferring to losing bodyfat giving the appearance of being more muscular. I'm referring to actual gains in muscle mass.

Point out where you disagree with these statements...I would answer 2yes" to all of them.

Does CV increase metabolic rate?

Does protein turnover increase with increases in metabolic rate?

Does increased protein turnover equate to greater gains in muscle mass, assuming all else is equal?

If you answer yes to all of these, then CV aids in increasing muscle mass! If you you dont answer yes to them all, tell me why?


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## Toop (May 11, 2008)

Hahaha, get out of that 1 :lol:


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## bkotey (Mar 29, 2007)

Wee G said:


> I'm not refferring to losing bodyfat giving the appearance of being more muscular. I'm referring to actual gains in muscle mass.
> 
> Point out where you disagree with these statements...I would answer 2yes" to all of them.
> 
> ...


Give it up brett. He pretty much laid it out there man :beer:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Wee G said:


> I'm not refferring to losing bodyfat giving the appearance of being more muscular. I'm referring to actual gains in muscle mass.
> 
> Point out where you disagree with these statements...I would answer 2yes" to all of them.
> 
> ...


In addition, some CV has been shown to affect both aerobic and anaerobic pathways, and increase GH production.

Mr Wee G - reps.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

May I also suggest this is moved out of the reading room (article only...)


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## iwannagetbig (May 24, 2008)

nice


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## miles2345 (Mar 26, 2008)

sorry mate but cardio and fat burn are two totally different things and occur at different %ages of you maximum heart rate. Cardio vascular work has huge benefits to increasing the body's efficiency in supplying the muscles with oxygenated blood and nutrients whilst training and post training. Fat bur occurs at a much lower heart rate, cardio doesnt make you burn fat and fat burn doesn't help your cv fitness, and if there is any effect at all it isnt worth mentioning


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Miles,

Actually CV work performed at a higher % max HR has a MASSIVE fat burning effect, far greater than performing lower % MHR work (traditional "fat burn" work).

Lower intensity work burns greater fat as a percentage of total calories burned, but much lower total calories, and indeed less total calories from fat, than higher intensity work.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Wee G said:


> I'm not refferring to losing bodyfat giving the appearance of being more muscular. I'm referring to actual gains in muscle mass.
> 
> Point out where you disagree with these statements...I would answer 2yes" to all of them.
> 
> ...


G - do you have any studies to hand on Protein turnover etc. I'm being lazy and avoiding pubmed lol :lol:


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

Protein turnover and what? CV? BMR?

cheers,

G


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Wee G said:


> Protein turnover and what? CV? BMR?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> G


Both mate if you can. In vivo or it vitro studies are both fine


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

....Wee G, hunk, wit, socialite and researcher to the stars.

Manjana!


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

glad this topic was brought up its been at the back of my mind

for someone like me who has trouble storing fat, would 30 minutes on the treadmill or perhaps a 30 minute jog be ok? i was playing footy the other day on the beach and i was shattered in minutes

can i have the best of both worlds in my case of bulking? im sure you guys are going to say yes as this thread has been a good read, i just dont want to over-do the cardio and use up my energy in terms of muscle recovery


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