# hardcoregrowth somatropin



## Drift (Jan 27, 2009)

anyone used somatropin by **************************** its really popular around our ends and wow the results r amazing over time


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

it is GH no better or worse than any other generic blue top that has been relabelled, as for the results being amazing over time this is true but then it is also true about all GH and then it depends on what you call amazing......


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

forgot to mention that someone came on here saying it was tested better than any other GH yet when asked about the lab tests he did not post again on the subject weird that don't you think????


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> forgot to mention that someone came on here saying it was tested better than any other GH yet when asked about the lab tests he did not post again on the subject weird that don't you think????


Spot on,i remember reading that thread..if only we had a pound for every time we heard this GH is better than that GH.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

it is common practice for some guys to join a forum and big up a Brand of GH normally because they have some thing to gain from the sale of the brand 

there are no UGL that can produce their own GH it costs millions to set up so all UGL GH brands are relabelled generic GH from china....nothing wrong with that and now a days most generics are decent but definitely not the best thing since sliced bread


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## Drift (Jan 27, 2009)

im not tryin to boost any brand or anythin

its just before i inject somethin in my body i just want to do research!

you need to understand where im comin from... and in that sense what is the best GH.. cos there are a million and 1. Whats the difference between Yellow top and Blue top


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

no mate you misunderstand my comments where not aimed at you but the guys that push the new brands thinking we are all idiots...

do not get me wrong this brand is ok it is not the holy grail as some would like you to believe though.....

from personal experience my vote goes with

Getropin

Hygetropin


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## Drift (Jan 27, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> no mate you misunderstand my comments where not aimed at you but the guys that push the new brands thinking we are all idiots...
> 
> do not get me wrong this brand is ok it is not the holy grail as some would like you to believe though.....
> 
> ...


Getropin?

Hygetropin? What company is it by... or popular brand?

And whats the difference between blue top & Yellow Top


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

getropin and hygetropin are by hygene...do not ask for a site or post a site up as it is against the rules...

generic GH is just that an unlicensed GH brand it is made by many different labs in china the colour of the top only distinguishes it as generic nothing more nothing less


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

zainasaurus said:


> And whats the difference between blue top & Yellow Top


The colour of the tops mostly.

There are varying degrees of quality between blues, but that depends on the source and you will not know by looking at them.

Kefei blues are the best I have used, the others varied from very good to $hit.


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## falcou (Oct 5, 2004)

I try this morning harcoregrowth for the fist time, 3,3 ui just before training, I was very very tired, but my problem is with hyge or another the water go easily in the bottle, with hardcore, I need to push to put the water in the bottle? but for me it is good gh, and for you?I make contest in july and need to know.

thanks and scuse my english friends

falcou


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

The difference between hyge and Hardcore/whatever they are called is Hyge is pharma from a licensed lab.....hardcore is generic, bought over to the uk as anyone can and re-labelled, then claimed to be something it isn't....Anyone..you/me/my fcuking cat, can bring some generic over and re-label it...The difference with these guys is they are charging you mugs a fortune for the priveledge......lmao


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## strongasanox (Mar 14, 2008)

Robsta said:


> The difference between hyge and Hardcore/whatever they are called is Hyge is pharma from a licensed lab.....hardcore is generic, bought over to the uk as anyone can and re-labelled, then claimed to be something it isn't....Anyone..you/me/my fcuking cat, can bring some generic over and re-label it...The difference with these guys is they are charging you mugs a fortune for the priveledge......lmao


you are spot on with the price thing,, absolute daylight robbery


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## falcou (Oct 5, 2004)

Another 3,3 ui this morning tired like never.

falcou:confused1:


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## JohnR (May 29, 2008)

Why dont you switch to taking it before bed if its making you tired help you get a decent nights sleep & Ive never found any difference when taking it morning or night


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## falcou (Oct 5, 2004)

Yes before bed is better but I try before training because I hope to cut fat better but now my body fat is very low, and I am going to take it before bed.I have try aslo to see if I was tired to see is this gh(new for me) was good.

Thanks

Falcou


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## eft (Dec 23, 2009)

can any one tell me how they liked somatropin 191AA from hardcoregrowth


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

falcou said:


> Yes before bed is better but I try before training because I hope to cut fat better but now my body fat is very low, and I am going to take it before bed.I have try aslo to see if I was tired to see is this gh(new for me) was good.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Falcou


Personally id shoot it first thing in the morning.Natural GH is released at night or while you sleep.By shooting at night you could decrease or stop the natural output of GH,so you're not getting as much GH as you could be.Ive never used GH,this is just from research i have done into it.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

DogBoy said:


> Personally id shoot it first thing in the morning.Natural GH is released at night or while you sleep.By shooting at night you could decrease or stop the natural output of GH,so you're not getting as much GH as you could be.Ive never used GH,this is just from research i have done into it.


sorry mate but this is not correct....no matter when you inject GH it will effect your natural output as GH is released in pulses throughout the day, the one benefit to injecting in the morning (mainly when cutting)is that GH will help curb cortisol


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> sorry mate but this is not correct....no matter when you inject GH it will effect your natural output as GH is released in pulses throughout the day, the one benefit to injecting in the morning (mainly when cutting)is that GH will help curb cortisol


fair enough,like i say ive not used it,its just what i've read.I knew it would affect total output,but didn't realise it'd shut you down altogether if pinned farthest away from bedtime,which is when the greatest amount is released.

gh is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and T3. insulin is extremely effective with gh, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because gh injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.

gh alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of gh is your best bet. When splitting gh/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural gh production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous gh supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then gh with Test and Glucophage is good. gh is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of gh is only 2 hours so spread it out.* Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own gh in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous gh suppresses this, you should not take it before bed.* For best results, use a 17 alpha-alkylated oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. gh/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.

It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting gh if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before gh use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your gh. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of gh or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during gh cycling since gh lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of gh for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. gh also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

WOW you can cut and paste.........at least have the decency to state where you copied it from...

i can quote you a million pieces of text that says if you use steroids your d1ck will fall off and you will die does not make it true....

The half life of GH is Minutes not hours and seeing as you take GH 20-30minutes before bed and GH release does not happen until you reach REM sleep interruption to the natty release is as much as i mentioned in my first post and that is no matter when you inject the GH the bodies Natty production will be effected and suppressed.

plus this piece of text is flawed but then it is an opinion not fact another myth this guy states is the with using T3....GH does not suppress your Thyroid output straight away and with some it does not happen at all (i know this because i have bloods taken) plus there is not one ounce of evidence to show using a thyroid drug like T3 permanently damages the thyroid gland this again is just something someone thought up one day and now it is Internet law......

please don't take this the wrong way buddy but you should stick to debating stuff you have used and know alot about....


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Lol,i wasn't trying to pass it off as my own! It was just so that you knew i wasn't pulling advice out of my ****.Its so true,for every piece of info on the internet,theres hundreds of other pieces to contradict it and vice versa.....it's sifting the good from the bad and gathering knowledge from first hand users,hence why i stated i've never used it.

chill!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i am very chilled mate why would i not be as i know that what you posted was incorrect.....

it does annoy me though when guys cut and paste but then not give credit to the person who actually wrote it.....


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## kirkelliott (Jul 22, 2009)

alrite guys are the kefei blues gh good quality? and whats the delivery rate success?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have used Kefei and they are ok probably the best blues i have used as for delivery i could not tell you


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Pscarb said:


> i am very chilled mate why would i not be as i know that what you posted was incorrect.....
> 
> it does annoy me though when guys cut and paste but then not give credit to the person who actually wrote it.....


this is a copy and paste and pscarb wrote it....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Robsta said:


> this is a copy and paste and pscarb wrote it....


this is a copy and paste and Robsta is a [email protected]


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## KRS (Nov 27, 2008)

And this my lovelies, is some copy pasta ...


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## T-Flex (Dec 6, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> i have used Kefei and they are ok probably the best blues i have used as for delivery i could not tell you


May I ask how you personally use GH and what type of results you have had from it?

Also, you mention that it shuts you down. So how do you come off the stuff? Do you have to do some kind of PCT?

Cheers, and merry Xmas. :beer:


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Pscarb.....is there anywhere you can direct me to,studies or something,that shows GH supression? Im still researching into this as it's something i'd like to try in the future.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

go over to ProMuscle and look at the posts made by DatBtrue he knows pretty much everything about GH and other peptides


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## stonecoldzero (Aug 30, 2009)

I had previously stated elsewhere that I did not think there was a negative feedback loop affecting endogenous HGH production as a result of exogenous administration for a variety of reasons.

I WAS WRONG.  :whistling:

1992 study establishing basic principles and evidence. There are, however, articles published prior to this which laid the foundations.

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/130/2/780

There is a mountain of more recent evidence examining regulation of natural HGH production, from rats and sheep to humans, waking and sleeping, circulating HGH levels and the impact of other factors on such regulation, for example IGF-1, ad infinitum ........

A preponderance of the evidence supports the existence of an HGH negative feedback loop, although it appears mechanism is still being debated.

For a basic yet informative overview -

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/hypopit/gh.html

Alternately, if you have a ridiculous amount of time to spare and untold levels of patience, google a variation of

hgh/negative/feedback/loop etc etc.

Once again -

I WAS WRONG


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## Propper Joss (Aug 22, 2009)

stonecoldzero said:


> I had previously stated elsewhere that I did not think there was a negative feedback loop affecting endogenous HGH production as a result of exogenous administration for a variety of reasons.
> 
> I WAS WRONG.  :whistling:
> 
> ...


Good post

Cheers.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stonecoldzero said:


> I had previously stated elsewhere that I did not think there was a negative feedback loop affecting endogenous HGH production as a result of exogenous administration for a variety of reasons.
> 
> I WAS WRONG.  :whistling:
> 
> ...


i remember that post :whistling:


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Awesome...thanks guys 

I was sure that exogenous GH would cause supression,but to which extent and what duration is what I was looking for.

So according to the first study,supression after administration is 4 hours.So taking that into account,morning shots would be best to avoid supression and get maximal release at night time?

Ive not had the chance to look aver at promuscle yet,so maybe datBtrue has some other studies that suggest otherwise.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

you are correct in the fact that the biggest release is after you fall asleep at night but GH is released in pulses through the day so as i said in my first post no matter when you inject synthetic GH the body will suppress its natty output you cannot fool the body.....



DogBoy said:


> Awesome...thanks guys
> 
> I was sure that exogenous GH would cause supression,but to which extent and what duration is what I was looking for.
> 
> ...


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

Got to agree about shooting the growth thing with what paul says tbh.

For one reason,over the last 8 years the amount of times the question arises about when to take,and i have asked it alot.lol

I have always had different answers every time,it seems to me nobody really knew so i tried always,all times and now do believe it didnt make any diff whatsoever so what Paul says does make sense.


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Obviously i've never used it,so i can only go by what i read and peoples experiences.But after seeing that study,i would feel more comfortable pinning in the mornings.75% of natural GH is released at night,personally i'd like to give my body the best fighting chance of releasing as much of that as possible.

Not saying it's going to make that much difference,especially when using larger doses,but i only plan to use therapeutic doses of 2iu daily,so i believe i'd benefit from morning doses.

I have read many a debate about timing of shots and i think it just comes down to making your own decision given the information available.....and that study for me is the kind of info that reinforces my beliefs.....not saying anyone elses beliefs are wrong!

At the end of the day it comes down to what you feel about it psychologically that could make the difference.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes it could...it won't but you have to see for yourself.... 

edit: i have just read that study and it was carried out on rats.......mmmm so your a rat are you??


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> yes it could...it won't but you have to see for yourself....
> 
> edit: i have just read that study and it was carried out on rats.......mmmm so your a rat are you??


Physiologically we're very,very similar!

Now,where's the fcuking cheese at?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

DogBoy said:


> Physiologically we're very,very similar!
> 
> Now,where's the fcuking cheese at?


really.....that may be but the study that quoted that clenbuterol was anabolic was carried out on rats which was great until you converted the dose they used to humans and it would turn out that the mcg per lb used would mean a typical 200lb bodybuilder would have to use around 500mcg to make it anabolic which would probably kill us.....so what iu do you get when you do the same with this dose used in this study??


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

They used about 1.1iu on the rats.....a hefty dose indeed in comparison....and a minor oversight on my part! But nonetheless,anabolism is anabolism and supression is supression.Albeit it'd probably be so minor you wouldn't notice it.....but its still present.....So that being said,in the doses that humans use,supression would be near non existent,which we know not to be true.

The way i see it is....because of HGH's short active life in the body,it would make no difference whether using 2iu or 200iu at once,it would still cause the same amount of supression because it still would have the same active life in the body.....if increasing the dose increased the active life,it'd be a different story,but it doesn't.

Good debate man.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

no difference if you used 2iu or 200iu you can really tell you have never used GH 

my point is if they used 1.1iu on the rats to get these results what would the dose be on humans?? it would be much higher as they would of applied a iu to kg ratio....

the main point is that you are looking at trying to fool the body by taking GH in the morning so in your mind not interupting the large release at night, this is flawed as the GH you inject will cause a negative feedback no matter when it is injected and no matter how long it is active for it will still suppress the daily amount the body naturally releases.......

that is just like saying because test is at its highest in the early hours if you inject some at night you would not suppress the HPTA....

ANY amount of GH over a long enough time frame injected at any point of the day or night will cause suppression plus the amount released at any point of the day is very small especially if you are using the normall BB dose of 4iu.....

i agree good debate.....


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

I meant no difference from a supression point of view not results! I'll explain in more detail when I get home.......sat outside the gym waiting for it to open!....posting from my iPhone!


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## stonecoldzero (Aug 30, 2009)

Hi guys -

Based on my track record .... this ain't gospel. 

Just my understanding. I realise lots of people already know a lot of what I'm posting here - but some won't.

I went beyond the 1992 rat study before I posted it. There are quite a few human studies, albeit with varying population samples - the only reason I posted that particular article was due to the fact that it seems to link the early studies to the later ones.

Paul - I agree that 1.1iu in a rat converted to a human equivalent is nonsensical - basically would have to be on a continuous intravenous drip of GH 10 hours a day or something ridiculous. Couldn't even guesstimate.

However, it does appear that the amount of HGH taken does not necessarliy increase the degree of natural GH regulation over a 24 hour period, but is rather specific to an "active" time mechanism.

Nor is it singly dependant on an "hgh only" negative feedback loop. So they seem to know the optimal time of regulation but not the amount by degree and whether that time affects other amounts throughout the 24 hours.

In other words, the maximal effect during a specific time period is somewhat predictable, but how this impacts the other 18 hours a day isn't known. Yet.

The main "scientific study" problem is not that of formulating a hypothesis but controlling the number of variables, many of which are unpredictable due to lack of knowledge resulting from, once again, the number of uncontrollable variables. So .... Catch 22.

GH production is pulsatile over any given 24 hours, with the greatest amout being released at night. The evidence suggests that exogenous GH levels circulate approx 4-6 hours in humans. That circulation period is when the greatest degree of natural GH down-regulation occurs. This does not mean that it doesn't affect production outside that time. It may or may not - so far, it seems to be undetermined.

The reason for this appears to be the fact that the GH negative feedback loop is not independant in and of itself. Rather, it is part of a mechanism of which IGF-1 appears to be of primary importance. Thus, multiple factors, apart from exogenous GH alone, can impact natural GH production at any given time.

In other words, as things stand, the available evidence suggests that exogenous GH negatively impacts natural GH production, but this is not the only factor. Why? As of yet, they have been unable to "deconstruct" the system into definitive "cause and effect" subdivisions. Not really a surprise given that the endocrine system overall is so intricately interwoven.

So the amount (iu) of administration may or may not be relevant to the amount of regulation over any given time period and at any particular time of the day. Yes, greatest suppression will occur during periods of greatest producution, but whether this inluences production outside that time frame remains undetermined simply because there are so many other interwoven factors in play.

So to cut to the chase ....... :yawn:

you're both right. It's just the degree to which you're both right, and why, that appears to be the unresolved question even in the scientific community.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

excellent post mate and deserves a rep from me......

i never really read anything into studies done on rats as the rats are unlikely to be training and eating a diet like ours and as you say their are many factors involved.....i can only go on my experiences and that is that no matter when you inject GH the effect is pretty much the same i do disagree with the urban myth that if you inject away from B4 bed your natty production is uneffected.....


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## DogBoy (Aug 11, 2009)

Great post SCZ

It would seem theres not really much for me to add at this point,SCZ pretty much summed up what i was saying.

I wouldn't say nightime release is uneffected by pinning in the morning,however i believe it'd be inmpacted on to a lesser degree.....as studies suggest also.

End of the story.....

Pscarb believes it don't matter

DogBoy believes it does

Draw your own conclusions.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

DogBoy said:


> Pscarb believes it don't matter
> 
> DogBoy believes it does
> 
> Draw your own conclusions.


i am sure people will maybe when you actually use it for any length of time using different ways you may change your mind...


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