# Long Term DNP Usage



## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

How long do you guys think you should run DNP before taking time off?

When I run dnp, I normally do a blast of 500mg for two weeks and see where I am

I'm thinking though this time of a long low dose cycle, my question is though; How long do you think it's safe to run DNP for at 250mg before taking time off say a week.

2 Weeks before time off? 1 month? 3 months?

What do you think?


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Mate if any one need to run dnp longer then 2 weeks needs to take a long hard look at there diet work ethic and self control.

I can't even stand the stuff for a week !


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

reza85 said:


> Mate if any one need to run dnp longer then 2 weeks needs to take a long hard look at there diet work ethic and self control.
> 
> I can't even stand the stuff for a week !


This ^^^surely taking Dnp that high for longer isn't a good thing !! I've done two cycles only at 125mg for 4 weeks and that almost killed me!

We need @MunchieBites in here!!


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## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

mrssalvatore said:


> This ^^^surely taking Dnp that high for longer isn't a good thing !! I've done two cycles only at 125mg for 4 weeks and that almost killed me!
> 
> We need @MunchieBites in here!!


what were your side effects like?


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

YummyMummy said:


> what were your side effects like?


Nothing for two weeks, I had mine at night time so peaked during my sleep but felt the heat if I had carbs before bed!

Last two weeks I started to get really bad headaches and had to stop because of those!  other than that I was pretty good


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

feels so good when that ****e clears your system though doesn't it


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> feels so good when that ****e clears your system though doesn't it


Oh yes the difference was unbelievable you don't realise how crap it make you feel till you're of it


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

mrssalvatore said:


> Oh yes the difference was unbelievable you don't realise how crap it make you feel till you're of it


yep ive been using it in 3-4 week runs but u dont see what u have lost till you have been off it a couple of weeks and then you think fackin hell ill get back on that **** like

just didnt realise how cold it was without dnp brrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> yep ive been using it in 3-4 week runs but u dont see what u have lost till you have been off it a couple of weeks and then you think fackin hell ill get back on that **** like
> 
> just didnt realise how cold it was without dnp brrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Lol it's bloody freezing isn't it! I hate the cold it's almost kills me! I have a bone condition and the cold really aggravates it!

Have to agree I didn't notice till at least. 10 days of it :thumbup1:


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

mrssalvatore said:


> Lol it's bloody freezing isn't it! I hate the cold it's almost kills me! I have a bone condition and the cold really aggravates it!
> 
> Have to agree I didn't notice till at least. 10 days of it :thumbup1:


they should low dose this stuff on the nhs for winter for sure seriously though i couldnt tell what id lost on it when i was on it but since i came off this time ive been ****ing for two weeks non-stop unbelieveable how much water you hold on it


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

stevieboy100 said:


> they should low dose this stuff on the nhs for winter for sure seriously though i couldnt tell what id lost on it when i was on it but since i came off this time ive been ****ing for two weeks non-stop unbelieveable how much water you hold on it


I didn't hold massive amounts but my jeans definitely got tighter before they got looser lol 

A really low dose throughout the winter would be a life saver lol


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## Dudeofdoom (Sep 3, 2010)

reza85 said:


> Mate if any one need to run dnp longer then 2 weeks needs to take a long hard look at there diet work ethic and self control.
> 
> I can't even stand the stuff for a week !


I'm with Reza on this ..... A bit of cardio an 250mg for a week or two on a slight calorie deficit ....and wow

The thing I'd watch is catching a cold from work m8s as a cold an this **** is the pits :-(


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

Dudeofdoom said:


> I'm with Reza on this ..... A bit of cardio an 250mg for a week or two on a slight calorie deficit ....and wow
> 
> The thing I'd watch is catching a cold from work m8s as a cold an this **** is the pits :-(


i find the sides die after a couple of weeks worst side ive had is the ****s thats it and thats prob from mega dosing vitc


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## Cronus (Jun 5, 2012)

Found 10 days at 250mg seems to be the limit to me and I can lose a good 4lbs of pure fat in that time frame. Any longer after that and it feels like I've been poisoned.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Really you shouldn't run anymore than 3 weeks, and there should be no reason to run longer than this anyway. If you carb deplete before starting you will get the same losses in 2 weeks, as normally the first week without carb depletion is just depleting glycogen stores more than anything, and very often people see some gains in week 1 as you start to hold water. If you have more to lose than you can in one or two runs, you should look at your diet and exercise first. (sorry to be a party pooper)

Also make sure you hydrate, include an electrolyte supplement daily, and also consider including anti oxidants as part of your supp regime. Also if you are running it low carbs and slightly below maintenance cals - which is my preference - then carry lucozade at all times - not the sport the full on glucose syrup. If you time your carbs wrong, or train for an extended period you can go a little hypoglycaemic, lucozade will bring you out faster than anything else.

Headaches can be a sign of dehydration, or electrolyte imbalance, so ensure you are hydrating and using at least something like Dioralyte at least daily.

For most people 125mg is more than enough for a first run. Correctly dosed and run correctly you will lose very well on this. I lose over 10lbs in a 3 week run. Running 200/250 is more severe in all ways (sides and losses), and 15+ lbs is easily achievable. I would not recommend this dose though if you do manual work or work in a hot environment as you will dehydrate too quickly, also you will constantly look like you have taken a shower fully clothed.

However please don' forget that this stuff is a systemic poison (that is its effects increase linearly in proportion to dose), the same as paracetamol - 2 tablets (of paracetamol) cure you 20 tablets (of paracetamol) kill you. These two numbers are know as the ED50 (effective dose for 50% of the population) and LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of the population). With paracetamol these are quite widely spread, as they need to be with all medicines available OTC, however with DNP they are close together.

So treat it with the respect it deserves. It doesn't reach peak levels in your system until Day 5 of your cycle, so never increase any dosage until you have covered at least this long on your initial dose.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

DiggyV said:


> Really you shouldn't run anymore than 3 weeks, and there should be no reason to run longer than this anyway. If you carb deplete before starting you will get the same losses in 2 weeks, as normally the first week without carb depletion is just depleting glycogen stores more than anything, and very often people see some gains in week 1 as you start to hold water. If you have more to lose than you can in one or two runs, you should look at your diet and exercise first. (sorry to be a party pooper)
> 
> Also make sure you hydrate, include an electrolyte supplement daily, and also consider including anti oxidants as part of your supp regime. Also if you are running it low carbs and slightly below maintenance cals - which is my preference - then carry lucozade at all times - not the sport the full on glucose syrup. If you time your carbs wrong, or train for an extended period you can go a little hypoglycaemic, lucozade will bring you out faster than anything else.
> 
> ...


Great post Diggy and although I understood perfectly what you meant in the part I highlighted, I think it's worth pointing out that you were talking about paracetamol. Far less than 20 tabs of DNP (dosed at 250mg) would kill anyone.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> Great post Diggy and although I understood perfectly what you meant in the part I highlighted, I think it's worth pointing out that you were talking about paracetamol. Far less than 20 tabs of DNP (dosed at 250mg) would kill anyone.


Absolutely mate - I'll edit the original... 

cheers

:thumb:


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Nice to see you back Diggy. I always miss your posts and wisdom when you go AWOL.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> Nice to see you back Diggy. I always miss your posts and wisdom when you go AWOL.


Been sorting out a new business mate, should see me a little more from now on...

and thanks...

:thumb:


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> Really you shouldn't run anymore than 3 weeks, and there should be no reason to run longer than this anyway. If you carb deplete before starting you will get the same losses in 2 weeks, as normally the first week without carb depletion is just depleting glycogen stores more than anything, and very often people see some gains in week 1 as you start to hold water. If you have more to lose than you can in one or two runs, you should look at your diet and exercise first. (sorry to be a party pooper)
> 
> Also make sure you hydrate, include an electrolyte supplement daily, and also consider including anti oxidants as part of your supp regime. Also if you are running it low carbs and slightly below maintenance cals - which is my preference - then carry lucozade at all times - not the sport the full on glucose syrup. If you time your carbs wrong, or train for an extended period you can go a little hypoglycaemic, lucozade will bring you out faster than anything else.
> 
> ...


Another great DNP response 

Repped  :thumb:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

cheers



Username-Here said:


> Another great DNP response
> 
> Repped :thumb:


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## havering (May 14, 2013)

Done 125mg twice for about ten days, builds up in your system, you get all this idiots who don't do research and after five days feel nothing then double it and get into all sorts of trouble. I found after about day 7 I was feeling it and after 10 I stopped. You don't realize how bad it makes you feel till you come off it but the sides are bearable as long as you aren't stupid. I'll tell you what the heat aspect sounds slightly appealing in this cold weather currently. Found taking it at night far better, although it's best to stick some towels underneath you as I was seating profusely.


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## kreig (May 12, 2008)

I was working outside all day Saturday and I've been running 125mg for just over a week, none of the guys I was working with could understand how I was just a nice temperature standing there in combats and a polo shirt while they were freezing in hats gloves the lot


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## Dudeofdoom (Sep 3, 2010)

DiggyV said:


> Really you shouldn't run anymore than 3 weeks, and there should be no reason to run longer than this anyway. If you carb deplete before starting you will get the same losses in 2 weeks, as normally the first week without carb depletion is just depleting glycogen stores more than anything, and very often people see some gains in week 1 as you start to hold water. If you have more to lose than you can in one or two runs, you should look at your diet and exercise first. (sorry to be a party pooper)
> 
> Also make sure you hydrate, include an electrolyte supplement daily, and also consider including anti oxidants as part of your supp regime. Also if you are running it low carbs and slightly below maintenance cals - which is my preference - then carry lucozade at all times - not the sport the full on glucose syrup. If you time your carbs wrong, or train for an extended period you can go a little hypoglycaemic, lucozade will bring you out faster than anything else.
> 
> ...


This is great could we sticky it ........ As dnp seems to be pretty popular these days and some of the posts are a bit frightening on people's dosage.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Dudeofdoom said:


> This is great could we sticky it ........ As dnp seems to pretty popular these days and some of the posts are a bit frightening on people's doseage.


Yeah, there should definitely be a new version of a DNP 'guide'

The only thing is it may encourage inexperienced members to go on it and not have a clue what to do, but then again if the sticky covered everything and someone knowledgeable wrote it...

I remember years ago when Conciliator was around (not on this board), he was one of the most knowledgeable people on it, he was going to write a book called 'Dieting with DNP' but it never came out


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Username-Here said:


> Yeah, there should definitely be a new version of a DNP 'guide'
> 
> The only thing is it may encourage inexperienced members to go on it and not have a clue what to do, but then again if the sticky covered everything and someone knowledgeable wrote it...
> 
> I remember years ago when Conciliator was around (not on this board), he was one of the most knowledgeable people on it, he was going to write a book called 'Dieting with DNP' but it never came out


The 'guide' is still based on a lot of what Dan Duchaine wrote originally, and while some is still holds true, a lot has changed and the approach I use is somewhat different than the guide evangelises.

I did start writing an alternative guide based on my experiences and extensive research, however the prevalence of bad press right now around DNP and its mis-use and the mis-conceptions means there are liability issues that need to be considered. I for one do not want the board dragged through bad press, with Lorian and Katy hounded because one idiot mis-interprets or abuses DNP, and points the finger at UK-M.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> The 'guide' is still based on a lot of what Dan Duchaine wrote originally, and while some is still holds true, a lot has changed and the approach I use is somewhat different than the guide evangelises.
> 
> I did start writing an alternative guide based on my experiences and extensive research, however the prevalence of bad press right now around DNP and its mis-use and the mis-conceptions means there are liability issues that need to be considered. I for one do not want the board dragged through bad press, with Lorian and Katy hounded because one idiot mis-interprets or abuses DNP, and points the finger at UK-M.


Yeah that's understandable.

Lately DNP is always in the paper or on TV for 'killing' people. It's so frustrating because the majority of people just don't want to hear the two sides of the argument. It's funny how the media never point out that DNP is safe to use BUT precautions must be taken, they pretty just make out like they took the pill, did every little thing right and died an extreme death.


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## Dark_Ansem (Jun 25, 2013)

@DiggyV there are dissenting opinions on whether DNP is muscle-sparing or not. what is your opinion?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Purely from my own experience, as this is the only cycles where I know exactly what has been done in terms of diet, exercise and AAS, and as with ALL PEDs, everyone reacts differently: If I eat maintenance cals or slightly under there is no noticeable muscle loss. This has been both with and without AAS. However if I drop your cals to say 500 below, I see fewer losses than I would when dieting normally on low cals without AAS, I surmised this this was due to the speed with which DNP works, and it is much easier to mobilise fats than muscle proteins for energy. If on reduced cals with AAS then i see few if any losses.

If you are just going to use DNP, not have your diet sorted - then like any weightloss regime you will lose mass, however this should be a lesser amount than if you tried to lose the same amount through diet alone.

Additionally training with weights (HEAVY ones) will also help with reducing the muscle loss, however this is not easy when on DNP.


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## kreig (May 12, 2008)

Along with what has been said people also worry about muscle wastage because it's near impossible for any glycogen to be stored so you look flatter than a very flat thing.

Couple that with any water retention from it and it's mind games galore.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

blitz2163 said:


> Along with what has been said people also worry about muscle wastage because it's near impossible for any glycogen to be stored so you look flatter than a very flat thing.
> 
> Couple that with any water retention from it and it's mind games galore.


Yeah that played mind games with me when I ran it for the first time. I was weighing every day lol, but I was just bloating more and more. Whithin 3 days of me stopping, I lost like 20 pounds lol


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Dark_Ansem said:


> @DiggyV there are dissenting opinions on whether DNP is muscle-sparing or not. what is your opinion?


I definitely lost muscle whilst on a daily combination of 250mg DNP and 100mcg T3. I was running a daily deficit of around 500 calories, wasn't on AAS.

Now it would be debatable if the muscle loss was due to the DNP or else the T3. With hindsight my dose of T3 was definitely too high considering there were no AAS in the mix. But my workouts went to sh1t due to the DNP and that isn't debatable..


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## funkypigeon (Mar 3, 2013)

Username-Here said:


> How long do you guys think you should run DNP before taking time off?
> 
> When I run dnp, I normally do a blast of 500mg for two weeks and see where I am
> 
> ...


When DNP was first bing used as a weight loss aid in the 30's 1000's of people were on it for over a year and even more were on it for over 6 months. There has never been an epedemic of issue for thos people who used it for that length so its conciderd safe to used for fairly long periods of time.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Bull Terrier said:


> I definitely lost muscle whilst on a daily combination of 250mg DNP and 100mcg T3. I was running a daily deficit of around 500 calories, wasn't on AAS.
> 
> Now it would be debatable if the muscle loss was due to the DNP or else the T3. With hindsight my dose of T3 was definitely too high considering there were no AAS in the mix. But my workouts went to sh1t due to the DNP and that isn't debatable..


yout t3 was definitely too high, you should even need T3 at 250mg unless your running it over 2 weeks, and then you dont need it until you start getting lethargic.

As for you muscle loss, that will be the glycogen depletion... it gives the illusion of your muscles shrinking. Plus the T3 probably sent you catabolic. Your muscles usually recover fully within 2 weeks.


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

I thought the idea of taking t3 was because dnp stops the conversion of t4 to t3 in the body straight away


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

m575 said:


> I thought the idea of taking t3 was because dnp stops the conversion of t4 to t3 in the body straight away


Yes which in turn causes Lethargy which is why people supplement it


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Username-Here said:


> Yes which in turn causes Lethargy which is why people supplement it


Still doesn't explain why people wait weeks to start taking it though. Prevention better than cure?


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

m575 said:


> Still doesn't explain why people wait weeks to start taking it though. Prevention better than cure?


Ah I see what you mean now...

If I was to run T3, I would run it from my first dose of DNP

I don't run it though because I don't mind the lethargy feel because I'm never normally tired lol


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Username-Here said:


> Ah I see what you mean now...
> 
> If I was to run T3, I would run it from my first dose of DNP
> 
> I don't run it though because I don't mind the lethargy feel because I'm never normally tired lol


I spose it's the same as an ai on cycle for example. Some run it some don't. I know what I'd rather do though whether I feel anything or not.


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## Johny85 (Feb 1, 2013)

You will get symptoms of hypothyroidism if you don't supplement with T3 when doing a long cycle of DNP:

http://www.medicinenet.com/hypothyroidism/page4.htm#what_are_the_symptoms_of_hypothyroidism

In particular:

- constipation;

- hairloss;

- weight gain [water --> puffy look];

- depression

As a matter of fact, even on short cycles you will notice some of these symptoms, in particular: the puffy look you get while on DNP (without supplementing with T3). You do lose this water however after ending your cycle, that's why a lot of people get frustrated *during* their DNP cycle because according to their scale they don't seem to be losing weight and hit up the dose (*which is very dangerous*). In reality, they *are* losing fat, but they also are gaining more water into their body due to the lack of T3, so they *can't see it* in the mirror. This water goes away after ending DNP (takes up to one week) and when the thyroid is restored. If you did supplement with T3, you won't notice the water gain at all during the DNP cycle.

However, if you do take T3 for a long period of time, there's a probability you will mess up your thyroid for good and will need to supplement for the rest of your live.

Therefore, just keep your DNP cycles short, 2 weeks or so, and if you will: with some T3 supplementation (25 or 50 mcg), with tampering on / off (just in case), or just without the T3 at all.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Johny85 said:


> You will get symptoms of hypothyroidism if you don't supplement with T3 when doing a long cycle of DNP:
> 
> http://www.medicinenet.com/hypothyroidism/page4.htm#what_are_the_symptoms_of_hypothyroidism
> 
> ...


Agree, really good statement



> However, if you do take T3 for a long period of time, there's a probability you will mess up your thyroid for good and will need to supplement for the rest of your live.


This is complete BS. This is the longest running myth regarding T3. Your thyroid will always come back and there are many studies to support this



> Therefore, just keep your DNP cycles short, 2 weeks or so, and if you will: with some T3 supplementation (25 or 50 mcg), with tampering on / off (just in case), or just without the T3 at all.


T3 supplementation should be ran at 50mcg per day at a DNP dose of 250mg. If a dose of 500mg, up T3 to 100mcg per day - again studies to support this


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## Johny85 (Feb 1, 2013)

Username-Here said:


> Agree, really good statement
> 
> This is complete BS. This is the longest running myth regarding T3. Your thyroid will always come back and there are many studies to support this
> 
> T3 supplementation should be ran at 50mcg per day at a DNP dose of 250mg. If a dose of 500mg, up T3 to 100mcg per day - again studies to support this


I am aware of the "myth" around the thyroid, therefore I said 'there is a probability'.

The thing is, there is no smoke without fire, so I still wouldn't go long term with T3 supplementation, even knowing there are studies concluding that "[...] thyroid will always come back" 

As for your last remark, can I please read those studies? I am genuinly interested.

If I am not mistaken, ausbuilt, said in one of his replies that even with the smallest amount of DNP your T3 will soon run out and therefore you should always supplement with T3 - and while doing so, you might as well go as high as 100mcg (whether you are supplementing with 50mcg or 100mcg, your thyroid gland will shut down either way).

On the other hand, I once read Concilliator saying there was no need for T3 at all, not sure if he said this about a short or a long cycles though...


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Johny85 said:


> I am aware of the "myth" around the thyroid, therefore I said 'there is a probability'.
> 
> The thing is, there is no smoke without fire, so I still wouldn't go long term with T3 supplementation, even knowing there are studies concluding that "[...] thyroid will always come back"
> 
> ...


Yeah I remember those posts regarding ausbilt and conciliator, for some reason Conciliator was banned on every forum website :confused1:

Sure, I'll edit this post once I've found them  @DiggyV linked them to me on a post before

EDIT - I've found one study, but this isn't the one I was referring to. I'll keep searching for it

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US4673691

@Johny85


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