# Insulin



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

I have been asked lately about the use of Insulin as it seems there is not alot of info out there on the subject.

this is information i have collected from the Net...

i must stress though Insulin is a dangerouse substance but when used correctly by a mature individual it can enhance a AAS stack and create great gains...

What is insulin?

Insulin is a hormone secreted by the beta cells of the pancreas that controls the metabolism and cellular uptake of sugars, proteins, and fats. As a drug, it is used principally to control diabetes. Insulin is not a steroid.

What type of insulin should I use for bodybuilding?

Humulin R and Humulog are the only insulins I recommend because they act fast and are out of the body fastest(this makes them the safest). I have never used Humalog but understand that aside from quicker onset and half-life it is essentially the same.

Why do I want to use insulin?

Insulin has been called "Anabolicus Maximus" by some gurus of the bodybuilding world. Insulin can give you greater gains than you have ever had using anabolics alone. Insulin, in combination with androgens and resistance exercise, may trigger maturation of satellite muscle cells (small, more or less useless cells that are held in reserve, which do not contribute to muscular strength) into mature muscle cells that do contribute to muscular size and strength. How freakin cool is that. Hyperinsulinemia has been shown to stimulate protein synthesis in isolated limb infusion experiments , these anabolic properties seem to be the result of insulin binding to IGF-1 receptors.

If insulin is so great why aren't all diabetics huge?

Diabetics have a disease and use insulin to replace endogenous insulin that they cannot produce. Bodybuilders use insulin in a totally different way. Some diabetic bodybuilders manipulate their insulin use to use insulin for muscle growth and get good results but changing dosages and times of injection of insulin for diabetics can be dangerous.

Isn't taking insulin dangerous?

Insulin safety

1. Do not use slin alone have a training partner or girlfriend who's not using slin hang around with you from the time you take the slin to about 2.5/4 hrs after.

2. Tell you're partner to look for anything out of the norm for your personality and have a list of questions like your ssn or address etc that they can ask you. Don't joke around, and answer them without ****, because if you cant answer or refuse to answer it could be a sign of hypoglycemia(low blood sugar). Symptoms of hypoglycemia include disorientation, headache, drowsiness, weakness, dizziness, fast heartbeat, sweating, tremor, and nausea.

3. If you cant/wont answer or are feeling the symptoms of hypoglycemia they should be prepared to feed you carbs like pancake syrup, coke, sugary stuff. I bought glucose tablets at walmart. kinda like candy but gets in the blood faster and dissolve quickly. these are for diabetics ask at the pharmacy.

4. Have your partner know that if they suspect low blood sugar and cant convince or force you to consume carbs until your better. CALL 911 and ask for an ambulance and tell the truth to the operator... that they suspect you are in insulin shock and explain when they get there(the ambulance guys not the cops) that you are not diabetic but using insulin for anabolic purposes. Have the type of slin, the dosage and carbs consumed recorded to give the paramedic. They will save your life. Then you refuse transport to the hospital and eat. It might be a good idea to make sure your house is "clean" before every workout just in case the bad thing happens and the cops ask a lot of questions.

5. Why so much preparation for the possible problem?? insulin can kill you in minutes if you go down!!

6. Take the carbs and protein together immediately after injecting the slin(dont take chances trying to time out 15 min after injection). Take the protein with the carbs because the protein is pushed into the muscles with the slin also(creatine too).

7. Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal(high protein low fat with carbs).

8. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. Congrats you lived.(keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure because your not gonna have a lifeline)

9. YAWN... Don't go to sleep within 4/6 hours of using insulin since you can develop hypoglycemia while asleep and not have warning signs.

Ok I'm not scared I still want to use insulin...

Where do i get it?

Humulin R is over the counter (OTC) just about everywhere. Humulog is new and is still a prescription drug is some places. BUT... Insulin is NOT a controlled substance and will not be confiscated by customs or postal inspectors so order it online if you cant get it locally. Its legal.

Where do I keep it? (STORAGE)

The FDA requires that all preparations of insulin contain instructions to keep in a cold place and to avoid freezing. The refrigerator is a good spot. Unrefrigerated insulin can be kept of 28 days as long as it stays in a cool and dark place.

Where/how do I inject insulin?

The best sites for insulin injection are in the subcutaneous tissue of the abdomen(avoid the area close to bellybutton) .Usually, you should not inject within 1 inch of the same site within 1 month. The arms and legs can also be used, but insulin uptake from these sites is less uniform. Insulin should be injected subcutaneously only with a U-100 insulin syringe. "B-D ultra-fine" insulin syringes are good. Insulin syringes are available without a prescription in many states. If you cant purchase the syringes at a pharmacy, you can mail order them. Using a syringe other than a specific insulin syringe is dangerous since it will be difficult to measure out the correct dosage.

How much insulin should I take?

I recommend never using over 10IU. 10IU is enough to make you grow.

In general Dosages used are usually 1 IU per 20 pounds of lean bodyweight. So a 220lb bodybuilder with 9% body-fat would use 10iu of insulin(aprox200lb lean mass/20 = 10iu). But even experienced insulin users shouldn't use max dosage at the beginning of an insulin cycle. First-time users should start at a low dosage and gradually work up. For example, first begin with 2 IU and then increase the dosage by 1 IU every consecutive workout until you reach your calculated dose or determine a maximum personal dose(some people are more sensitive to insulin sides like hypoglycemia). This will allow the athlete to determine a dosage he can safely use. Insulin dosages can vary significantly among athletes and are dependent upon insulin sensitivity and the use of other drugs. Athletes using growth hormone and thyroid might have higher insulin requirements.

When do I take insulin?

It is my opinion that you should only take insulin after a work out, never before or when not working out, because before a work out you could crash and die during the workout and when your not working out it makes you fat. Some people disagree with this. IF you want, get some info from them and try it. But remember I told ya so.

When do i eat after using insulin?

Immediately!!! DO NOT TRY TO TIME YOUR CONSUMPTION OF CARBS!! You should immediately take a carbohydrate AND protein drink after taking you're insulin. I've stated this twice because it is very important. Even experienced insulin users can get a surprise now and then.

Eat a meal at about an hour after using insulin. Consume another small high protein medium carb low fat meal at 2.5 hours after the injection. keep some gatoraid on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycemia symptoms.

What do I eat after using insulin?

Some people recommend a zero fat intake for 4 hours after taking insulin. I do not disagree with this. But if your bulking you can be a little relaxed on this. But high fat intake after taking insulin can lead to high body fat.

The carb/protein drink taken after the insulin shot should contain AT LEAST 10 grams of Carbs and 5 grams of quality protein per IU of insulin injected with little or no fat (creatine taken in this drink is optional but works great). Before an hour passes you should eat a normal balanced meal (high protein low fat with Carbs). At 2.5 hours after the injection you should consume a small meal. Keep some Gatorade on hand just to make sure. Remember that insulin can still work much later so be careful and eat if you feel hypoglycaemia symptoms. Once again I've stated this twice because it is important.

***Some insulin users recommend far less Carbs than I have stated above. This is a personal decision you will have to make since it could be very dangerous...Even deadly! My opinion is to take the Carbs and learn to diet after bulking if you gain too much fat. ***

How long should/can I take insulin?

Short cycles please because you could have side effects. It is suspected that you could become an insulin dependant diabetic but I have never seen proof, but is it worth the risk? I would only use it a few times a week(maximum 4 on 3 off) for no more than 3/4 weeks.

What should I avoid while using insulin?

Do not use alcohol. It lowers blood sugar, and you may experience dangerously low blood sugar levels.

Do not change your workout in the middle of a cycle of insulin. Changes in how much you exercise can change the amount of insulin you can tolerate and maintain blood sugar levels.

Do not take any recreational drugs at the same time as insulin since they could mask symptoms of hypoglycaemia.

Do not change the brand of insulin or syringe that you are using without first talking to a doctor or pharmacist. Some brands of insulin and syringes are interchangeable, while others are not.

Do not use insulin if you are sick with a cold, flu, or fever. These illnesses may change your insulin requirements..

Do not use any insulin that is discoloured, looks thick, has particles in it, or looks different from the way it looked when you bought it.

Do not use OTC drugs that will cause drowsiness within 6 hours of using insulin.

Do not go to sleep within 4/6 hours of using insulin since you can develop hypoglycaemia while asleep and not have warning signs.

What are the possible side effects of insulin besides hypoglycaemia?

Rarely, people have allergic reactions to insulin. Seek emergency medical attention if you experience an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; or hives).

Hypothetically, one could become an insulin dependent diabetic if insulin is used too long.

Growth Hormone And Insulin Use.doc


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have also added a doc on the use of insulin with GH..

i found both very intresting and of great use before i started using either Slin or GH


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## Truewarrior1 (Jan 27, 2005)

bit too scary for me. good read though


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

Good read, nice post pS


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## Timmy Smooth (Nov 24, 2004)

Yeah, very informative and well laid out.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Truewarrior Slin is very scary but i can honestly say as long as you stick within the guidelines you will be ok.

the problems come when guys try and start on dosages of 10iu's+ and don't consume the right amount of carbs....

i have used Slin a few times and when i start it again i will be starting out on 4iu's PWO i will increase the amount as my body gets used to the dosage this really is the only responsible way to treat Insulin ....


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

Truewarrior1 said:


> bit too scary for me. good read though


agree man i wouldnt ever use Slin or GH but good read. Hell most ill do is Dbol


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## Bazzamax (Jun 9, 2004)

Good read Ps,

A blood sugar monitor only costs about £20 - £30 so I'd think it would be a good investment just to keep an eye on the blood sugar levels for when you are using slin.

All the best,

Bazza.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

now that is a mature attitude mate and really what is £20 when it could save your life...

the thing with Slin is that it is not a starters drug this substance should only be used once you have been using AAS for a fair few yrs with anything research is the key....


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

*Impressive reads.*

It makes alot of sense how that was layed out.

I know I will never use slin but I have used T3 and GH and I would not mind doing that again as soon as the finances permit

Sweet read tho PS, thanks!

I always wondered how the pro's could pack on so much size in such a small amount of time.

I knew it was'nt the gear alone, I knew it was'nt gear and GH, but a synergy between diffrent things that kept them from becoming fat and gaining size at the same time.

I won't do the slin but I understand better its function.

That was really cool.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

no problem mate..

i will be using GH+Slin after my PCT/Break post comp i will be detailing every detail in my thread over at Muscleweb so you can see the gains i do or do-not make...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh, you will make them (gains).

I considered it once (slin) but I tend to pick up body fat easy so slin is pretty much out of the question.

I do love GH tho. That is such a great fat remover. But funds just dont permit it


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Yeah, I would love to use GH, but just so damn expensive! Hey hackskii, have u had any sides from the GH?


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Good post Paul.

Like Paul said slin is dangerous and needs to be respected but used properly its very good.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Bumping this thread as its a good read imo


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## dirtride (Jan 19, 2005)

Great post Paul.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

the_gre8t_1ne said:


> Hey hackskii, have u had any sides from the GH?


Really hungry.

Really deep sleep with massive dreams.

Stiff wrist and stiff jaw when I did over 3iu's of Humatrope.

Did that much with Saizan and Saronan (sp) and no sides.

Humatrope is some good stuff and the most expensive too.


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Ive used insulin quite alot about a year ago - and will be incorporating it into my next cylce to.

Had one scare on it and that was my own fault - took a shot after the gym one time just before me and my bird were going out for a birthday dinner (she didnt know that i took gear and was dead against it) The problem was on the way to dinner she tells me she has to call in on friends house to drop something off. Once were there, you know how women can talk - before i Knew it I began to ****** - cold sweats the lot and i started to panick to point were I had raid theyre fridge - shoveing chocolate bars, bananas, pop anything sugary i could get my hands on. I got some strange looks of both my bird and her friends who I'd never met before - worst thing was I couldnt explain away my bizarre behaviour.

As you can imagine that relationship didnt last long.

Point is - you gotta be responsble if your taking this stuff.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

good point there mate something i try to stress to all that use Slin..

i was reading last night an article on IM shots with Slin rather than the Sub-Q shots apparently the onset is quicker and it is out your system quicker.

attched is a Bloo glucase graph of Einstein from AR..

BG vs time.doc


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## SA12 (Jun 2, 2004)

Some scary **** 

I don't think I will be trying this out in a hurry


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I've had some near misses with Insulin and I've found the best way to avoid them is to jab 20 mins before you finish your workout SUBQ (30 mins before PWO Shake and carbs) or just before you get in the shower IM (10 mins before PWO shake and carbs).

This way the Insulin will be in your system about the time that the carbs enter the blood which will give a better result and less prone to drops in blood sugar. Incidentally I take simple and complex carbs on board usually 50/50 as your body will also produce Insulin in response to the carbs you take in. Too many simple sugars will cause a Insulin dump by the body as well as the exogenous Insulin you jab.

I have a carb rich meal about an hour later as well.

I would agree that Insulin is very risky unless you are spot on with your diet, I always carry around a few flapjacks and carb drinks just in case I miss time it.


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## welsh_jonesy (Oct 9, 2005)

would you use novaldex with x2 anadrol 50 a day, 1ml of yellow top deca, and 1ml of test 400? or what ideas does any one have to stop gyno?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

jonesy i think you have posted on the wrong thread mate.


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## Ari (Sep 11, 2005)

how long is the average insulin cycle for


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

Let's see if I'm understanding this correctly.

Insulin actually acts like a growth hormone. That is why we diabetics often gain a lot of weight while using insulin because insulin actually promotes fat storage. But if a diabetic gets plenty of exercise we can also build up a lot of muscle since insulin works like a growth hormone.

Now, some body builders, instead of using illegal steroids are now using insulin to increase muscle mass. Using insulin can make you really huge!

But this is another form of drug abuse! If you're not diabetic, than you have absolutely no business using insulin, because it can be very dangerous, causing your blood sugars to drop to dangerously low levels.

So, am I to understand that you actually advocate using insulinto build muscle? You are well aware of the dangers involved yet you still encourage the use of insulin.

Yeah, I can see how it might be perfectly legal since insulin is not a steroid, but a hormone naturally produced by the body and there is no way to detect

if an athlete is using extra insulin, as steroids can be detected. So you are able to get away with it.

If you don't get enough exercise while using insulin then it will only make you fat. Because we diabetics must use insulin to control blood sugars, we have a hard time trying to lose fat even while exercising.

I should know from personel experience. I'm 5 ft. 6 in. and I weigh over 305 pounds and I'm an insulin dependent diabetic. I've been climbing stairs every day to build up the muscles in my fat legs, but in spite of the exercise I've been getting, I'm still gaining fat.

Now you ****-tards who are abusing insulin are running the risk of becoming insulin dependant diabetics.

That is, because like any drug, if you misuse it, you will become dependant on it after awhile.

Of course, if a drug addict become dependant on cocaine or heroin they can go through Detox and recover from their addiction, because the body does not need those drugs.

But once you become dependant on extra insulin, then you are **** out of luck because your body is going to need it. When you use extra insulin, your body becomes resistant to the insulin and then you become diabetic.

So, you macho jockos with **** for brains are only going to **** yourselves up. You will end up with huge soft round bellies, fat asses, thunder thighs, and double chins just like the rest if us big fat diabetics.

Welcome to the club!!!


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

fcuk me where did that come from, you are one angry person my friend it seems you think very poorly of people who choose to use insulin to their advantage

can i just state for the record that no one person on this site actually encourage others to abuse aas they merely offer an opinion from their own personell experiences and try to aid the novices and first timers not too abuse these opinions

as for you saying that all people who are on insulin for medical purposes are fat well thats just total sh!te i know many people who take insulin who lead normal lives and do exercise to keep in shape

personnally i think you have this grievence with people who take insulin for the pleasure of it who by the way have probably researched it to the death so as not to become dependent on it or even die from using it because your fat, if you done abit more research into the benefits of exercising you could also use it to your advantage but instead you climb afew stairs and think "fcuk this for a game of soldiers" then winge about your weight!

GET A FCUKING LIFE YOU SAD LAZY [email protected]


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

OH YEAH AND STOP FCUKING SWEARING!!!!!


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

> I've been climbing stairs every day to build up the muscles in my fat legs


well...... good luck 

honestly insulin is not an excuse for being the weight you are...

plently of bodybuilders use it and can see their abs all year round


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks for the info here  helpful


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fat Man you have everything in your post wrong....you get fat from insulin when your diet is bad not because you don't exercise it is obvious that you are a bitter man and also someone who needs to look at both his diet and training.

if you are 305lbs at 5'6" then i would think about stop eating all the pies and stop coming on a forum like this one when it is obvious you have no intention of adding constructive information to any discussion.....


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Any drug can be harmful if abused.

I'm not advocating Insulin use, in fact I think it shouldn't be used by anyone.

However the reality of top level sports is that risks are taken to become the best.

I hope you've been on a pro-cyclist site and had a go at the EPO packers.

And a sprinting site to talk about THG

and what about a pie eating site for self loathing fat plums that can't be bothered to do more than walk up a flight of stairs - probably to get more pies from the store room.

There are plenty of diabetics who aren't fat. You're just lazy.

All top level sports have some level of drug use so wake up.

Oh forgot to add - if you exercise with weights the insulin receptor balance shifts to the muscles so you can actually get quite a good physique. However you'll never get this cos you're a waster by your own admission.


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

some said he'd fallen over the other day mate se he'll be half way to scotland by now!! aparantly he rolls for miles when he falls!


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

Tinytom said:


> However you'll never get this cos you're a waster by your own admission.


lol tell it like it is Tom, jeez im glad were friends.


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> Fat Man you have everything in your post wrong....you get fat from insulin when your diet is bad not because you don't exercise it is obvious that you are a bitter man and also someone who needs to look at both his diet and training.
> 
> if you are 305lbs at 5'6" then i would think about stop eating all the pies and stop coming on a forum like this one when it is obvious you have no intention of adding constructive information to any discussion.....


First of all, I DO NOT eat pies or any junk foods. I avoid them because I'm diabetic. You assume tha all fat people load up on sweets. Well, I don't.

I eat mostly vegetables, and fresh fruit, and I exercise every day. I would like to get back to pumping iron again as I did when I was younger, and I guess that since I am diabetic, then I could use the insulin to my advantage.

I've been fortunate that dispite my obesity, my blood pressuer is normal at 110/70, and my cholesterol is only 100 with an HDL of 40 and an LDL of 60, and my triglycerides are only 70. Actually my cholesterol is too low. I've been told that is should not be less than 160, and having it too low can bring on symptoms of anxiety and depression.

So, I'm actually afraid to lose weight, because I'm scared to death the my cholesterol will drop to dangerously low levels.

It's just that I get concerned when I hear the people who are NOT diabetics are using insulin, and having extra insulin in your bodies can cause you to become insulin resistant, leading to becoming diabetic.

What ever you do, just try to be careful!

Okey dokey? :lift:


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

imo it sounds as if your testosterone levels are very low...

i'd get that checked out


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Fat Man said:


> First of all, I DO NOT eat pies or any junk foods. I avoid them because I'm diabetic. You assume tha all fat people load up on sweets. Well, I don't.
> 
> I eat mostly vegetables, and fresh fruit, and I exercise every day. I would like to get back to pumping iron again as I did when I was younger, and I guess that since I am diabetic, then I could use the insulin to my advantage.
> 
> ...


Hey bro, there are a few things that can aid in your condition that most people dont know about.

First of all great on the fruits and vegetables, that is excellant for aiding in pushing twards being insulin resistant twards insulin sensitivity, which is preferred.

Next, restance training/weights allow you to become more insulin sensitive, this is one reason why guys use insulin post workout with carbs and protein, although I bring this up as an indicator to aid in diabetes as circulation problems and insulin are a big deal with diabetics.

Omega 3's are super good for lowering insulin resistance, that and exercise will allow less insulin to be used in the body, less storage of bodyfat due to reduced insulin use and for inflammation, fish oils are one of the strongest anti-inflammatory foods known to man.

Also, I would eat eggs and meats too, although there is some indication that saturated fats can increase insulin resistance, meat is actually just half saturated 46% to be exact, high in zinc, iron, b-vitamins and it is actually a good idea for a protein source.

Adding that with all the above, this could quite possibly aid in fat loss and improve your cholesterol issues.

After all low cholesterol is associated with lower testosterone levels, lower testosterone levels are associated with less than optomum blood sugar regulation as well.

Eating smaller more frequent meals that combine protein, fats (especially Omega 3's) and low GI carbs (fruits and vegetables) is an outstanding way to aid in the control of diabetes.

I have several friends with the same conditon as you, it can get ugly.

Good luck and if you already know all these things then cool, I just thought I would toss some information out there.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fat Man said:


> First of all, I DO NOT eat pies or any junk foods. I avoid them because I'm diabetic. You assume tha all fat people load up on sweets. Well, I don't.


And you assume that all Bodybuilders who decide to use Insulin are idiots and are going to be diabetics so why is me assuming you eat pies any different from your assumptions about bodybuilders and insulin??

granted there are a few guys who will take just about anything to attain the perfect physique but we on this board like to arm all our members with the knowledge so they can use substances like Slin more safely and that is a much better approach than just preaching to everyone.


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

hackskii said:


> Hey bro, there are a few things that can aid in your condition that most people dont know about.
> 
> First of all great on the fruits and vegetables, that is excellant for aiding in pushing twards being insulin resistant twards insulin sensitivity, which is preferred.
> 
> ...


WOW! You say that low cholesterol is associated with lower testosterone levels!!!

No wonder I'm not very Macho! Some people I have known in the past has referred to me as a "big fat docile wimp", and in the past I have been easily taken advandtage of.

Basically I'm a very gentle and soft spoken person, with an easy going laid back attitude toward life in general. But that does not necessarilly make one a winp.

I also understand that low testosterone levels can contribute to obesity, increasing the percentage of body fat while causing a loss of muscle mass. Now that is bad news!

But I didn't know that low cholesterol could cause low testosterone levels.

I have a doctor's appointment coming up on Monday May 22, and I'm going to talk to her about having my testosterone levels checked.

Also my body temperature is lower than normal, an average of 97.4 instead of the normal 98.6, and when my temperature is at 98.1 to me it feel like a mild low grade fever since I'm use to having my body at a lower temperature. When I get up in the morning it has been as low as 96.5 degrees.

I don't know if I'm hypothyroide because I don't have ALL the classic symptoms. I have a very low tolarance to heat, but I prefer cooler temperatures, and I do gain weight very easily, but I don't have the rest of the symptoms like dry skin or brittle nails or being over sensitive to cold, etc. etc. I just have a very slow metabolism.

As you can see, I do have some issues to contend with.

In addition to eating lots of vegetables and fresh fruit, I also take a few tablespoon of Extra Virgin Olive Oil before my meals because I found that in helps to slow down the absorbtion of carbohydrates so that my blood sugars do go up as high or as fast after eating my meals.

And since my cholesterol is too low, I've given myself permission to go ahead and eat eggs, hamburger, and sharp chedder cheese which I love very much.

So far I've been lucky that I have had no complications from diabetes, and I've been diabetic since September of 1994. I'm 54 years old, but I've been told I look younger.

For a big fat diabetic, I've been disgustingly healthy. It's been over 20 years since I had a flu or any allergies, and over 10 years since I even had a common cold.

By the way, I have also heard the low testosterone levels makes it harder to build muscles. Now that really sucks on all four cylinders!!!


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

thats better fat man, see how nice we are when you are nice to us!

i hope you get some help from the doc's mate as it cant be very nice for you really

you should ask hackskii if he has anymore info for you mate that man is an absolute diamond if he can help you or any-one-else he will

anyway i appologise for my first reply to you mate

regards


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## Crazy Mick (Feb 24, 2006)

Just a suggestion fat man, what about starting to work out with weights?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Having low cholesterol is not associated with low testosterone levels, low cholesterol diets can be associated with low test levels and primarily low fat diets.

Lifting weights actually raise HGH, IGF-1, testosterone levels, so lifting weights also being a great fat burner and helping insulin resistance is all pluses in my book. Older men that lift weights have higher test levels that guys that don't at the same age.

More lean muscle mass, less body fat, less bone loss, all good reasons. I could go on for days like aiding in belly fat which is where the most aromatase enzyme is and that is what converts testosterone to estrogen, the list is endless.

Another thing, many people with a sluggish thyroid will be lower temp and will have higher cholesterol, so hypothyroidism can be associated as a cause for high cholesterol, and like many hormones all affect each other in some small way. Have the doc run up your thyroid as well, hypothyroidism also will cause fat gain.

You temp sounds like low thyroid to me.

Are you cold all the time?

You might not be due to more insulation on your body (fat), sorry, just saying.

Have them run your blood.

Could try adding a tab of kelp and see if there is any change in temp.

That 2 degrees sounds almost for sure low thyroid/hypothyroid.

Adding the olive oil is a very smart idea for lowering the glycemic load of a meal, very good there, fish oils are another one that aid in lowering the glycemic load as well.

Chromium is a mineral that regulates blood sugars too.

DHEA supplementation might help here too as you are a bit older and DHEA can convert to any of the sex hormones, I supplement this too but only take 25mg a day otherwise it can spike estrogen so just 25, it is dirt cheap.

I don't think you can get there in the UK but I don't know if you are in the states.

Eggs are great, cheese actually can have some health benefits associated like calcium, CLA, some vitamins that you can use.

Have your doc run your blood, I would be interested in knowing if anything is up.


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

hackskii said:


> Having low cholesterol is not associated with low testosterone levels, low cholesterol diets can be associated with low test levels and primarily low fat diets.
> 
> Lifting weights actually raise HGH, IGF-1, testosterone levels, so lifting weights also being a great fat burner and helping insulin resistance is all pluses in my book. Older men that lift weights have higher test levels that guys that don't at the same age.
> 
> ...


Well, I have a doctors appointment in a couple of weeks, and I'm going to talk to her about some additional blood tests for the next lab, but that won't be for another three months yet before I can get some more lab tests.

You asked me . . . . .

"Are you cold all the time?

You might not be due to more insulation on your body (fat), sorry, just saying."

No need to be sorry. I'm not offended by the word "fat", and yes since I do have a lot of fat on my body and it does keep me feeling warm during cool winter days, but during the summer I really suffer from the heat.

Sometimes during the summer when I perspire a lot, my blood pressue gets too low. One time it was down to 89/58 when it's usually at 110/70.

While most people are comfortable with a room temperature of 70 degrees, I prefer having it at 60 degrees, and I can go out in 45 degree weather without a jacket because my own body fat keeps we warm.

Sometimes my hands feel cold, but it's not due to poor circulation. My blood is thin, and one time I cut myself shaving, and it took over an hour to stop the bleeding, so since my blood is thin and takes longer to clot, my circulation is pretty good.

When I was much younger, going to college I use to pump iron, and although I built up a lot of muscle I didn't lose any fat.

When I was in my 20s and 30s I sufferd from chronic hypoglycemia. I was always hungry. My blood sugars were always too low, and when I was tested, my insulin levels were four times as high as it should have been.

Now when I think back on my college days, because my body was naturally producing too much of insulin, it sort of gave me an edge when it came to pumping iron, because I added more inches to my arms chest and legs than anyone else in my weight training class, and I had the biggest thighs, but I still couldn't get out from under the fat. My weight training instructor asked me if I was trying to become a Sumo wrestler because I wasn't losing the fat!

That was probably because I was always hungry, and pumping iron only increased my appetite even more. So I was still gaining fat at the the same time I was building muscle.

You suggested that I take kelp tablets to raise my body temperature.

The problem is that when my body temperature sometime reaches 98.1, to me it feels like a low grade fever, and I get really sleepy and want to lay down just like anyone would when running a fever. I'm more comfortable when I'm between 97 and 97.5 degrees. Being at 98.1 feels too warm for me.

Now you're probably going to think I'm weird for saying this, but . . . . . . .

When ever I do lose some weight, I don't feel any better. I get really depressed and suffer from anxiety, but when my weight is back up, I feel more calm and relaxed.

I would love to get back to pumping iron again, but I can afford membership at a Gym. I'm going to check out the Life Care Center here in El Paso Texas and see if they have a Gym. When it comes to pumping iron I would like to do leg presses again. When I was in college I was able to leg press 650 pounds which was the entire stack of irons, but I could only bench press 120 pounds. For me it's harder to build upper body strength.

But I just know that if I can get back to pumping iron, I still won't be able to lose the fat, and would probably end up going Sumo!

:lift:


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

hey go with what you've got

sell up and move to china or where ever it is that do all the sumo stuff

atleast no one will call you fat anymore they'll probably chant your name

"fat man" "fat man" onlymessinwitcha!


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Ok lads,

Being obese can bring on insulin dependant diabetes (IDDM, think also called type 2 now). I think fatman is on a rant as unless you acutally KNOW about diabetes, and most peeps just think diabetes is taken care of because there is insulin, erm NO!

Diabetes is on the increase and one of the most common endocrinology disorders.

It is super super super scary with loads of really hideous side effects, even with insulin.

GOD even if you have non-insulin dependant diabtes (NIDDM) it is such a nasty disease.

I think that taking any chance that you might end up with this disease is bonkers.

Who knows if you have a genetic predisposition, you take insulin and tip the balance.

When you have diabetes the following things may occur:

Loss of eyesight

Kidney failure and require dialysis (one of the biggest expenses to the NHS me thinks)

Loss of toes, feet, limbs

Greater risk of cardiovascular disease (CV)

Greater risk of a couple of cancers

I guess it is my job, that I see how many peeps have things like diabetes or messed up thyroid glands that I do find it really SCARY that people would actually mess with them.

Every day, day in day out, and that is just ONE hospital.

And mess with them for WHAT? It is not like most of you even compete in BBing? That is what I don't get.

Fatman may not have expressed himself in a way that was not easy to listen to, however, just listen to the frustration and anger of having diabetes.

Respect

x

x

x

T


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

Tatyana said:


> Ok lads,
> 
> Being obese can bring on insulin dependant diabetes (IDDM, think also called type 2 now). I think fatman is on a rant as unless you acutally KNOW about diabetes, and most peeps just think diabetes is taken care of because there is insulin, erm NO!
> 
> Fatman may not have expressed himself in a way that was not easy to listen to, however, just listen to the frustration and anger of having diabetes.


No, I'm not on a rant. I'm just telling it like it is.

Also I'm not angry about having diabetes, because there is no use in being angry.

Negative emotions can only aggravate it and make things worse, so the thing to do is take charge of it and keep it under control.

All the complications you had mentioned can be avoided if a diabetic keeps his/her blood sugars within the normal range.

My grandmother had Type II Diabetes, she was obese being 5 ft. 2 in. and weighing over 250 pounds, and she had to use insulin, yet she lived to be 80 years old. This was back in the 1950s when diabetics didn't even have meters to check their blood sugar levels because they weren't invented yet. The only complication she had was it did effect her eyesight, but she didn't go blind.

She had a terrible addiction to sweets, and would eat a whole cake, and then take some extra insulin to cover it!

But I intend to avoid going that rout. I also have an addiction to sweets, but I fight that addiction every day. Eating some fruit helps to control the craving.

Most of my fat relatives lived to their 80s while my mother who was thin and did not have diabetes only lived to the age of 72.

My younger brother is thin, about 5 ft. 11. and weighs only 165 pounds, yet he has high blood pressure, and high cholesterol.

But fat little me, at 5 ft. 6 in. and weighing in at 305 pounds, my blood pressure is normal usually 110/70, and my cholesterol is only 100 which is actually too low, and my triglycerides are only 70.

I've been lucky that I have had no complications since I was diagnosed back in September of 1994. So, September 20 will be my 12th birthday as a diabetic, a birthday I have No intention of celebrating with cake! Instead I'll just have some fruit and thank God that my health has been good dispite my obesity and diabetes.

Once again, I want to express my concern for those who continue to use insulin for the purpose of building up your muscles . . . . . . .

Please, by all means, do be careful!

Because you will build up a resistance to the insulin, then you will start gaining fat along with your muscles, and then will come the big soft round belly, fat butt, thunder thighs and a double chin.

Yes, you'll still be quite muscular under the fat, but you'll go Sumo!


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

BIG-UNC said:


> hey go with what you've got
> 
> sell up and move to china or where ever it is that do all the sumo stuff
> 
> ...


Actually it's Japan, not China where they do the Sumo stuff.

You know, if someone were to offer me a plane ticket to Japan and go into Sumo training, I would snatch up the offer in a New York Minute!!!

The life of a Sumo wrestler is actually pretty good! 

During their careers they are actually quit healthy, but it's only after they retire that their health goes down hill and then they only live to be 65 or so.

But if they were to continue their exercises after retirement then they would live much longer.

Unfortunatly, Although I'm heavy enough, I'm too short. Most Sumo wrestlers are at least 5 ft. 11 in. and many are over 6 feet, while I'm only 5. ft 6 in.

I have the weight, but not the height. DARN!!!


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

get yaself some stilts mate lol

i know what you meen about the sumo training i watched a documentary on them before fcuk me they are fit as fcuk

didnt realise they went down hill so quickly though

why dont you start doing some of the excersises that they do mate might change things around for you!

anyway keep smiling and keep eating the fruit

ps happy biethday for september just incase your no longer a member on this site


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hey Fat Man, I hear chromium and vanadium the minerals help with cravings for sweets.

Maybe I even think they have combination supps that are mixed together.

It is not that expensive, why not give that a try.

Also fish oils are probably the best food supplement there is for lowering insulin resistance.

Slight modifications in your diet might tilt the ballance more in your favor.


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## Fat Man (May 3, 2006)

BIG-UNC said:


> get yaself some stilts mate lol
> 
> i know what you meen about the sumo training i watched a documentary on them before fcuk me they are fit as fcuk
> 
> ...


Yeah! I could easily embark on my very own personnel Sumo Program and doing all the exercises but doing the Sumo stomp on my floor might disturb the neighbors downstairs from me!


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

lol nice one mate ! 



Fat Man said:


> Yeah! I could easily embark on my very own personnel Sumo Program and doing all the exercises but doing the Sumo stomp on my floor might disturb the neighbors downstairs from me!


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## jay-cumbria (Mar 7, 2006)

i tried insulin for the 1st time last week and all went well with no faintness, it was given to me by my training partner, 5iu the 1st time and 8iu the next.

have just got a 100iu vial of my own to use over the next few weeks, thing is, call me thick, but its a 3ml vial, novarapid penfill actually, which says 100U/ml on the side, is this 100iu per ml or 100iu per the 3ml vial? obviuosly i need to know with certainty before i start! and how much in 0.0ml would equate to 8iu respective....?

help greatly appreciated!


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

interesting n informative bump 4 proper read later!!!!!!!!!!


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## niknaknok (Jun 10, 2007)

100 iu per ml mate

so if using a one ml pin it spells it out for you i.e the 10 being 10 i.u

hope that helps


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

I have got a sister who is insulin independant diabetic and she uses slin and she uses humalog!

I have heard that slin is for the advanced BB what is your thoughts on this and also i take it fom the diagram in the word doc you posted up Paul is a fast acting which i have also heard is the best if you going to use it, is this the case?

Also i have heard that slin mixed with hgh or igf-1 is best again is this true?


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

bump for reply


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes Insulin is for advanced users although many gys think they are advanced if they have done 2 cycles...

yes fast acting insulin is the best and safest

yes the results from using insulin with GH are much better than either one ran along


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Paul, did you ever do this as i can't find it? It would perhaps answer the PM i had sent you the other week if i could read/study it.

Cheers:lift:

i will be using GH+Slin after my PCT/Break post comp i will be detailing every detail in my thread over at Muscleweb so you can see the gains i do or do-not make...


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I have done GH and slin pre workout mate and it works brilliantly.

You have to take a high Vitargo whey shake with it and get the timing right but it has allowed me to gain a LOT of mass in the last year.

I will answer your PM when I have some more time to spell it out as its quite a long exmplaination


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## pitbull1436114521 (Dec 19, 2006)

Tinytom said:


> I have done GH and slin pre workout mate and it works brilliantly.
> 
> You have to take a high Vitargo whey shake with it and get the timing right but it has allowed me to gain a LOT of mass in the last year.
> 
> I will answer your PM when I have some more time to spell it out as its quite a long exmplaination


Tom

I'm running PreWO and PWO at moment but i'd be interested in your method if you wouldn't mind PM'in it me just to compare.

S


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Cheers Tom, Look forward to it, ta



Tinytom said:


> I have done GH and slin pre workout mate and it works brilliantly.
> 
> You have to take a high Vitargo whey shake with it and get the timing right but it has allowed me to gain a LOT of mass in the last year.
> 
> I will answer your PM when I have some more time to spell it out as its quite a long exmplaination


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## Scottswald (Mar 16, 2007)

so if you worked out 4 times a week, how many times would you use this?

(not looking to use, just curious)


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

twice a week


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

Bazzamax said:


> Good read Ps,
> 
> A blood sugar monitor only costs about £20 - £30 so I'd think it would be a good investment just to keep an eye on the blood sugar levels for when you are using slin.
> 
> ...


Now in Asda reduced to £4.00


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Bumping this for later.

Nice post Paul


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## sonicmonkey (Jan 14, 2008)

i jst started takin slin. this will be my third wrk out with it..how long till i will see rusults. im taking it with prop and eq.


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## henchest (Jul 26, 2009)

Very Informative...

Thanks Paul really appreciate the advice,

I have used Insulin during previous cycles and I have always started off at a low dose making my way up to 8IU.

I found that the most fastest acting Carbohydrate in my opinion is Waxy Maize Starch,

Could you please post the correct,safest and best method to use GH...

HOW MUCH DO I USE?

WHEN SHOULD I TAKE IT?

HOW LONG CAN I TAKE IT FOR?

Thanks


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## dan2004 (May 8, 2007)

Great read , can someone break down the potential difference between HGH,IGF-1 and Insulin. Ie: ive heard people using just igf-1 on its own. Does igf-1 carry the same dangers as insulin?


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

Had a sister that was diabetic, and always wondered how it was utilised with bodybuilders, I take it that when it stated that humalin R can be bought over the counter that is not in the UK? I would not be that scared if I decided to use it, and I have witnessed hypo's,My sister nearly bit my finger off when I was trying to get glucose into her, and know how to read the signs, though I'm sure I would be the last person to know if it was me slipping into the hypo, so building up the resistance would definatly be the way to go...


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## bigbaddav (Jan 25, 2010)

how long can you stay on the stuff and can you use steroids whilst on slin???cheers


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## BigBadButts (Nov 1, 2009)

Nice Article mate!I've just read that attached document it recommends 5 10 iu shots a day during bulking cycle!!!! is that the norm? or massive dosage?

Thanks


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## sockie (Jul 1, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> no problem mate..
> 
> i will be using GH+Slin after my PCT/Break post comp i will be detailing every detail in my thread over at Muscleweb so you can see the gains i do or do-not make...


Paul,do you have a link to that thread,thanks mate for your help,great read:clap:


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## sockie (Jul 1, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> now that is a mature attitude mate and really what is £20 when it could save your life...
> 
> the thing with Slin is that it is not a starters drug this substance should only be used once you have been using AAS for a fair few yrs with anything research is the key....


Hi Paul great post,while using slin do you know the bg levels you should be looking for after taking the shot,6.5 being normal,what do you look out for what is considered a dangerous no,thanks,I hope I worded the question right,


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

this question can't be answered buddy to any accuracy i am afraid plus the danger comes from not consuming enough carbs with and around the shots, my advice would be to start high and adjust


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## Sk1nny (Jun 5, 2010)

Is this really the only sticky on slin use?

@Pscarb I was hoping you might clear up the waxy maize starch confusion I'm having. Is it actually any good for pre workout insulin carbs or is it too slow digesting?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Sk1nny said:


> Is this really the only sticky on slin use?
> 
> @Pscarb I was hoping you might clear up the waxy maize starch confusion I'm having. Is it actually any good for pre workout insulin carbs or is it too slow digesting?


WMS is not slow digesting where dd you get that impression??


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## Sk1nny (Jun 5, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> WMS is not slow digesting where dd you get that impression??


 I read it on a bodybuilding.com article. it said there are several different ways that the waxy maize starch is processed at the manufacturing stage. these apparently affect the way it is digested and has affected tests on the digestion of wms in comparison with maltodextrose etc. if this is true then we don't know if the waxy maize starch we are purchasing is as quick as we would hope. ive bought some as vitargo is pricey in comparison when wms could do the same thing cheaper? I have been using vitargo with great success but wanted to research the wms before using. so in your opinion/experience it would be just as suitable?

heres the link...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy_maize_starch_myth.htm


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## draddog1988 (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm a type 1 diabetic dependant on insulin, always make sure my blood sugars are are around 7 before going to the gym, I'm new to the gym and finding my feet, I've had good results taking my insulin after I work out with a shake and some food, been type 1 for couple years and it is still scary having a hypo so you got to be careful, always have some lucozade with you as it is fast acting and a cereal bar or high carb snack to stop it falling again!


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## Craig92 (Dec 31, 2013)

Pretty impressive sticky!!! Iv been toying with the idea of insulin for a few months not really knowing the risks.

Thanks for this! I'm very Inexperienced and would have rushed into it without reading this. This sticky made me realise I'm simply too immature to even consider insulin at the moment so I'll leave it for now. Really does Sound like such an amazing product if used correctly!

Thankyou!!! :thumb: :thumb :


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## Ritchie_Canes (Jul 16, 2014)

@pscrab

great read mate, very informative , just what I was looking for and answers all my questions. bar 1

Never used slin before but been on a fair few AAS , if im training 4 times a week, how many times could I use slin PWO ? , was planning to incorporate it into my next cycle Test / Tren / Dbol

cheers

R


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## Ritchie_Canes (Jul 16, 2014)

Bump

@Pscarb


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

on a 4 day plan then i would use it no more than 2 times a week, on your weakest body parts.


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## Ritchie_Canes (Jul 16, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> on a 4 day plan then i would use it no more than 2 times a week, on your weakest body parts.


great, cheers.

Was kinda hoping for something like that, I train around 18:00 at night so was a bit concerned regards the food timing after the shot

R


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> on a 4 day plan then i would use it no more than 2 times a week, on your weakest body parts.


How does it actually make you grow though? I've read quite a bit on here about it and although I'd never dare use it, it is interesting to read about.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sen said:


> How does it actually make you grow though? I've read quite a bit on here about it and although I'd never dare use it, it is interesting to read about.


in basic terms Insulin (no matter the source) is the key to the door, the door being your muscle cells, Insulin will shuttle nutrients into the muscle or fat cells (hence why you should not eat a lot of fat around injection times)


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## Ritchie_Canes (Jul 16, 2014)

Hi @Pscarb

About to start a new cycle on Monday, Test e 600mg pw, 50mg Dbol 5 weeks, slin starting with 6iu on training days, increasing over 4 weeks

My question is this, after reading a very informative discussion from Kingprop on here, I am confused as to when best to take my shot.

He was suggesting that taking a pwo shake would induce your own natty insulin, so wait and take your shot later ( 1 hr I think )

This is my first time using slin so really do want to get this sorted out before hand

Also, I train in the evening between 6 & 7 which kinda generates another problem re timing , would I be best to jab pre w/o, or even split my dosage thru the day ?

as always, many thanks for your advice

Ritchie


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