# Is anyone here religous?



## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

Thinking I might need a belief in life im not religous but would just like to hear some views of people that are?


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

why not just go along to a few churches and see what you like?


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

If you believe in a greater being, then why not read a few pages from the three main holy books, quran,bible,torah take an interest, I began readin the quran in english, interesting I have to say, never read a torah don't think you can get em in english tho?


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

I wouldn't know where to start. As far as im aware there are different kinds of religion and I don't know if I would get anything from going church. I would be more inclined to read about it I think.

I don't think this question will get much response on this forum but I could be wrong?


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## Ricky12345 (Jun 13, 2012)

Yep


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

zack amin said:


> If you believe in a greater being, then why not read a few pages from the three main holy books, quran,bible,torah take an interest, I began readin the quran in english, interesting I have to say, never read a torah don't think you can get em in english tho?


The Torah is also the first five books of the Christian Old Testament, so yeah you can read it in English!


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

I go to the gym religiously


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

zack amin said:


> If you believe in a greater being, then why not read a few pages from the three main holy books, quran,bible,torah take an interest, I began readin the quran in english, interesting I have to say, never read a torah don't think you can get em in english tho?


Never heard of a torah. I have a muslim friend that tells me about the quran, do you have to convert to muslim to join this religion?

Are the bible and the quran the same or similar?

Do you get comfort from it or something else? Thanks in advance


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

not this again....


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Nope, had a whole heap of trouble just glossing over those gigantic monsters that roamed the Earth that according to the bible never existed but ask for belief in an invisible thing with no supporting evidence.


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## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

bigD29 said:


> Never heard of a torah. I have a muslim friend that tells me about the quran, do you have to convert to muslim to join this religion?
> 
> Are the bible and the quran the same or similar?
> 
> Do you get comfort from it or something else? Thanks in advance


Yes if you convert to Islam you become a Muslim.

The Bible is a collection of different books written at different times, the Old and New Testaments were written hundreds of years apart. The Koran is one book believed by Muslims to have been revealed to Muhammad by God through His messenger the Archangel Gabriel over a comparably short number of years.


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## dan_mk (Feb 16, 2012)

Or, alternatively, you could pass on all that bollocks and start believing in yourself without the need for validation by a devine (imaginary) being??


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## dan_mk (Feb 16, 2012)

cub said:


> Yes if you convert to Islam you become a Muslim.
> 
> The Bible is a collection of different books written at different times, the Old and New Testaments were written hundreds of years apart. The Koran is one book believed by Muslims to have been revealed to Muhammad by God through His messenger the Archangel Gabriel over a comparably short number of years.


All of which are a load of old made up rubbish to control the masses during early civilisation


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

This was my original problem that I NEEDED proof. I want to believe & hoped reading it would help. I have too many questions that need answering.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

believe in the chef god. there is a god for all trades. when it's chuckIng it down and shifts really quiet you know the chef god is watching over you.. or you get an order for the last rack of lamb that's been at the back of the fridge for a week and it's green and stinking, but a quick wash with salt and lemon and chef god brings it back to life :thumb: there are gods about, the more you thank them the more they look after you :lol:


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## silver (Feb 18, 2010)

I was a spiritual satanist at one point. Its not all death, blood and hell fire like most people think.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Our gym whose weights are heavy,

Vascular be thy veins

Nine sets of lunges, ten reps be done,

To add girth as it is to strengthen.

Give us this day our daily protein, and forgive us our fats,

As we forgive those who eat fat too.

And lead us not into overtraining, nor deliver us pizzas,

For thou art the king of the Squat, the deadlift and the bench press.

Amen


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

This is a messy subject.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

bigD29 said:


> This is a messy subject.


Well yeh, a lot of blood has and still is being spilt over the subject.


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## dan_mk (Feb 16, 2012)

bigD29 said:


> This was my original problem that I NEEDED proof. I want to believe & hoped reading it would help. I have too many questions that need answering.


God as *the answer* is just a lazy way to answer the questions you can't face answering yourself


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

Have you heard of the Alpha course? Might help you on your journey.

http://www.alpha.org/


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

I am not 'religious' in the slightest.

Brought up devout catholic, but seen that the way PEOPLE deem religion to be the worst thing that ever happened to humankind.

I have faith, not in one 'God' or the perceived beliefs of each religion...but in doing the right thing, treating people right, and being a 'good' person.....

God and I have never come to an argument, he/she believes in my right to choose the right path for my situ. I will await my judgement when it is due.

As for the 'God rules' no he/she doesn't, we have freewill....WE CHOOSE our own path, if we fail, well, we pay the price...the biggest mistake i find is people judging others, when they ain't perfect themselves. If you wanna go by the bible, it is forbidden to judge others, as that is God's job.....if there is no heaven or hell? Well at least, in amongst the hate that religion as it is known we may accept a few...personally, i think that if we all accepted that we were ALL preached to by the patronising and manipulative way of 'the books' then the world would be a better place!


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## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

huge subject!

but no matter what you believe we all believe something .....even 'nothing' is something


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## lucs (Apr 8, 2011)

if it helps people good luck to them, for me no religion. will i debate it ever ? nope always avoid religion and politics in any debate, argument, conversation. maybe our governments should try it.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

religion is for mental people


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

To me believing in religion is the same as watching narnia and thinking it is a documentary, gota be a bit crazy.


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## dan_mk (Feb 16, 2012)

austin84 said:


> huge subject!
> 
> but no matter what you believe we all believe something .....even 'nothing' is something


Not the best argument I've ever heard about religion mate


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

dan_mk said:


> Not the best argument I've ever heard about religion mate


are you trying to say that nothing is actually nothing and not in fact something?


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## The Project (Jul 21, 2007)

Buddhist for me! l am still learning, but its about not blaming others for the mess you are in. Do not expect things to come to you. When you find and do the things you want, its far more rewarding. Very simple.


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## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

if having faith in something allows you to live your life or those around you better where's the harm-aslong as you don't force your beliefs on others and accept that people will find their own path-with or without religion/faith


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

There is only one proof that something created everything. Big bang started the known universe, that is a reaction to something..what was before that ?

Nobody knows god or if he really exists. I believe the bible is made up, but isn't far off on the idea of one person being at the centre, ie 'god'. I love a good debate.

What is there to say there wasnt an infinite number of big bangs and infinate number of other lifeforms like us, thinking we live in the only universe.

Sod religion, boring causes b1tching and killing. Science and space is where its at


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

supermancss said:


> There is only one proof that something created everything. Big bang started the known universe, that is a reaction to something..what was before that ?
> 
> Nobody knows god or if he really exists. I believe the bible is made up, but isn't far off on the idea of one person being at the centre, ie 'god'. I love a good debate.
> 
> ...


isnt the big bang a theory? not saying it isnt correct btw..


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## The Project (Jul 21, 2007)

Buddhist monks are double hard ba*tard and can kick any gods ar*e


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't believe in an eternity or god, I believe we will turn into a pile of **** once we're buried, no heaven or hell. So what's the point of practicing and praising a higher being?


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

you want faith and not religion. Religion is reading all them books wrote by PEOPLE, sprouting endless contradicting stories etc, but find some faith and your sweet


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

It's quite funny that people choose a religion to start 'believing in' a bit like we used to choose our pick n mix from Woolworths. You might as well

go and start praying to a fried egg sweet or a chocolate mouse for all the good it does.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I was brought up as a Catholic, indoctrinated is a the word I'd use though. However, I am sure that there is more to our existence than only birth & death.

I can't prove it though, but this subject was brought up a few weeks back. I asked can you prove love?

Can any of you prove to me that your partner loves you? No you can't, but you can demonstrate the many ways in which he/she does. But it isn't tangible.

So can any one prove, using the same argument that God doesn't exist?

And as @Ashcrapper says, is nothing, something?


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## deec86 (Apr 7, 2012)

Natural selection will soon get rid of religion, really can't grasp that ppl believe a 2000+ yr story book written by desert tribe ppl who could really read or write. How can u take any1 seriously wen they believe the earth is 6000 old, Noah the 600yr old man built the ark or that m.f'er jonah living in a whale for 3 days WTF get a grip


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## deec86 (Apr 7, 2012)

latblaster said:


> I was brought up as a Catholic, indoctrinated is a the word I'd use though. However, I am sure that there is more to our existence than only birth & death.
> 
> I can't prove it though, but this subject was brought up a few weeks back. I asked can you prove love?
> 
> ...


. Love is just chemicals in the brain mate, who made god then?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

deec86 said:


> . Love is just chemicals in the brain mate, who made god then?


But how can I give you a definitive answer, millions of people have debated/ questioned this for 1000's of years.

And "just chemicals" look at all the things that these chemicals do.


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

I've got very strong views on religion... it has no place in the modern scientific world at all.

It's something people needed when sh!t couldn't be explained, to keep people in line and a reason to go conquering others.

Brainwashing for lack of a better term! It's basically designed for the weak so they have something to believe in.

Knowing that when they die its not scary, that when loved ones die they go somewhere lovely, blah, blah, blah!

I could go on and on.


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## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

We don't have to prove that God doesn't exist, surely the onus is on you to do that, as a believer. That's like me telling you my invisible

friend Nathan is real because you can't prove that he doesn't exist. It's pure nonsense. Humans have an innate need to believe in something

bigger than them, which is what drives you to believe that there is 'something' else after death, or some deeper meaning to our existence.

Some clever people just capitalised on that need and created religion, one of the best money making businesses in existence.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Mr_Socko said:


> We don't have to prove that God doesn't exist, surely the onus is on you to do that, as a believer. That's like me telling you my invisible
> 
> friend Nathan is real because you can't prove that he doesn't exist. It's pure nonsense. Humans have an innate need to believe in something
> 
> ...


And the Vatican is the richest!!!


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

bigD29 said:


> Never heard of a torah. I have a muslim friend that tells me about the quran, do you have to convert to muslim to join this religion?
> 
> Are the bible and the quran the same or similar?
> 
> Do you get comfort from it or something else? Thanks in advance


Well yeah you'd be a muslim if you joined the religeon, kind of the point lol

But its not about joining something its about what's inside yourself, I've had a few friends convert to islam, and these people did it, because they read the quran in english and it made sence to them, a lot of people here don't believe in religeon and are kwik to mock it, they never seem to let us believe in our religeon in peace without having to poke holes at us, if your asking me does I feel peace? Yes I do, I feel guided, peace in my mind and heart which I didn't have for a very long time, if that helps you mate then am happy, good luck in anything you decide to do, because I know what it feels like to be lost, you'll find your way, laters


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

Guys can we not turn this into a debate like we've seen before,


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

STEP AWAY FROM THE TROLL

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

bigD29 said:


> This was my original problem that *I NEEDED proof*. I want to believe & hoped reading it would help. I have too many questions that need answering.


you are never going to find that


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

supermancss said:


> What is there to say there wasnt an infinite number of big bangs and infinate number of other lifeforms like us, thinking we live in the only universe.
> 
> Sod religion, boring causes b1tching and killing. Science and space is where its at


There isn't anything against this, in fact this is the working physics model.


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

We live and then die, then we're gone forever

Get over it

Religion does more harm than good


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2012)

WilsonR6 said:


> We live and then die, then we're gone forever
> 
> Get over it
> 
> Religion does more harm than good


we have a winner

personally i stopped reading fairy tales at around 8 yrs old

best quote> "Fighting about religion is like arguing over who has the best imaginary friend." - if you dont know, look up who said that- you will be suprised


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

WilsonR6 said:


> We live and then die, then we're gone forever
> 
> Get over it
> 
> Religion does more harm than good


the body dies yes, but you cant say that your consiousness dies with it cos no fcucker knows for real do they.

tho i wouldnt subscribe to any religion, they are the cause of wars and division and control.


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## LuLuJJ (Jan 15, 2012)

bigD29 said:


> Thinking I might need a belief in life im not religious but would just like to hear some views of people that are?


Christian i am.. Though not as good as i used to be, if you want to read about it start in the new testament of the bible.. Let me know if i can help anymore


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

bigD29 said:


> This was my original problem that I NEEDED proof. I want to believe


You don't need proof to believe something. That's the whole point of belief - it's not reliant on proof.

I'm not a big fan of religion but then neither am I a big fan of militant atheism. To those who say that it's ridiculous to believe in an afterlife, I ask - how is it more ridiculous than believing in the here and now?


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

We're a bunch of cells combined in such a way that chemical reactions occur that are perceived as thoughts and feelings by our brains.

There is no soul, there is no after life, there is no god, we're just a complex chemical reaction, once this reaction ceases, it's game over, end of story.

Religion compensates for this by brainwashing people into thinking we are more than this, as once you accept the above statement, life becomes pretty meaningless and pointless.

People can believe in whatever they want to though, doesn't bother me in the slightest, after all, we're just meaningless bunches of cells.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Gary29 said:


> Religion compensates for this by brainwashing people into thinking we are more than this, as once you accept the above statement, life becomes pretty meaningless and pointless.


Or you could look at it another way and state that "science" has brainwashed you into thinking that's all that you are.

Study Descartes. "I think, therefore I am". The only thing you know for sure is that you exist. Everything else, and I mean *everything* is just a perception. There is no proof whatsoever that the computer you've just typed on exists. It's just your perception. For all you know, you could be a brain in a vat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

Given that I am neither feeble minded nor delusional, it is axiomatic that I cannot be religious.

The koran / quran makes sense???

Believing that angels and evil spirits called jinn are the two other "intelligent" species who inhabit the planet along with human beings cannot make "sense" because it is nonsensical ..... yet is a basic tenet of Islam. Believing an angel revealed this to a self-proclaimed "prophet" with special powers is just mental.

Be as offended as you choose to be ... hell, fatwah my a$$ for all I care ...

I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for any religious beliefs

delusional thinking and subsequent beliefs do not now, and never will, constitute "the truth" ...........

go ahead, crucify me.

Alternately ...

Welcome To The New Dark Ages.


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

The Cheese said:


> Or you could look at it another way and state that "science" has brainwashed you into thinking that's all that you are.
> 
> Study Descartes. "I think, therefore I am". The only thing you know for sure is that you exist. Everything else, and I mean *everything* is just a perception. There is no proof whatsoever that the computer you've just typed on exists. It's just your perception. *For all you know, you could be a brain in a vat*:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat


I'd sincerely LOVE that to be the case, I really would.

I think I'll 'die' to be proved correct though, we shall see.


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## Coop (Sep 8, 2007)

I like the bibles version of how we all started, Adam and eve that had 2 sons no daughters and yer we are all here.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Gary29 said:


> I think I'll 'die' to be proved correct though, we shall see.


AFAIK, that's the only way to find out.

Let us know how you get on.


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Coop said:


> I like the bibles version of how we all started, Adam and eve that had 2 sons no daughters and yer we are all here.


It would also make every one of us an inbred, but what do I know.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Coop said:


> I like the bibles version of how we all started, Adam and eve that had 2 sons no daughters and yer we are all here.


Not that I believe that sh*te but Genesis 5:4


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Gary29 said:


> It would also make every one of us an inbred, but what do I know.


If we follow science, we probably all came from the same cell.

So you can't win either way, dude. :lol:


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## Kloob (Jun 3, 2012)

This thread could get real messy. Science FTW.

I have no beliefs myself apart from: Gym, Eat, Sleep and Boobies.


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

Gary29 said:


> There is no soul, there is no after life, there is no god, we're just a complex chemical reaction, once this reaction ceases, it's game over, end of story.
> 
> .


your no different than a bible basher, just in reverse lol


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## Trusted (May 11, 2012)

bigD29 said:


> This was my original problem that I NEEDED proof. I want to believe & hoped reading it would help. I have too many questions that need answering.


Have a look here:

http://www.testthemessage.com/

and here:

https://islamicnafahat.wordpress.com/category/truth-evidence/

Make sure you didn't miss "*Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) Truly Is the Prophet of Allah*"

Click here to read:  (670 KB)

I hope this would help.


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

Guys I wanted a belief to believe in the after life. If there is no after life then what is the point of life?

When we die can we remember our life? Do we keep memories or does the soul go to heaven? I don't know the answers.

Can we look at other avenues please here...

1. What about near death experiences and out of body experiences that have been proven to be accurate

2. What about people claiming to have seen ghosts / dead people

3. Strange things that may have happened to you that is unexplainable?

We have to look beyond I could go on

What about space / ufo / other galaxies do these have a link to the after life?

I am all new to this sort of thinking and im just trying to understand.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

buy the necrinomicon and worship cthulhu?


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

the only thing people should believe in, is themselves, and be open to all possibilities.


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

Just to add.. My I am very skeptical myself but I DO want to believe.

Has anyone ever had a dead friend or relative came back to say they are ok? You hear about these stories but anyone here had anything like this? if not then why not? surely if there was heaven they would come back to say.. hey im alright don't worry about me? or send some kind of sign or something?

Also what do you guys think about spiritualist mediums?


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## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)




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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

I read a lot of dawkins and really like debates from hitchens etc. I made my mind up at a young age I would not have anything to do with religion, when i went to a catholic primary school (no one in my family was religious but it was best school by me).

I do not agree wholeheartedly with the atheist pov, I like to this when you die your energy dissipates back in the universe from whence it came. lol


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

So any thoughts on Telepathy, or is that going to be dismissed as well?

But with all of these things & I am not referring to religion as a thing, none of it can be summed up, or proved in a few lines.

For those that think that we live & die & that's all, & everything can be explained by science, then read more.

How was magnetism viewed in the 1800's? It's a simplistic question, but now it is understood.

As much as I'd like to contribute to this thread, I believe that there are many people take a blinkered view on religion, so I'll opt out.


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## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

Not religious at all. Do not believe in any of it.

Don't hate religious people, just don't preach that i am wrong or push it down my throat.


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## QUEST (Sep 26, 2009)

i hope baby jesus doesn't read any of this ... :yawn:


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

I believe in a giant spaghetti & meatball creature in the sky called galgamek and at the end of the world the sky will turn red with meatball sauce !


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

latblaster said:


> *So any thoughts on Telepathy,* or is that going to be dismissed as well?
> 
> But with all of these things & I am not referring to religion as a thing, none of it can be summed up, or proved in a few lines.
> 
> ...


i am projecting them towards you at the mo....... are you receiving them?


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

skd said:


> your no different than a bible basher, just in reverse lol


The difference is, I speak the truth and don't try to enforce my views on anyone else.

I will happily accept donations though and I'll be passing a tray around shortly.....


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

a.notherguy said:


> i am projecting them towards you at the mo....... are you receiving them?


Faaark I am as well...you want to give me your money AND your gf!!!

Thank you mate!!


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

i just turned two bible bashers away, phil mitchell style *go* (pause)*away*


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

latblaster said:


> Faaark I am as well...you want to give me your money AND your gf!!!
> 
> Thank you mate!!


ha ha, almost right! i was offering your hard cash to to get my ex out of my life! lmao


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## JusNoGood (Apr 4, 2011)

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but churches run what they call alpha courses which sound interesting. Like a chilled out intro to Christianity...free to go to with free cakes and coffee.

Me, luckily I've not got to the point where I've had the need to turn to anything.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

bigD29 said:


> Guys I wanted a belief to believe in the after life. If there is no after life then what is the point of life?
> 
> When we die can we remember our life? Do we keep memories or does the soul go to heaven? I don't know the answers.
> 
> ...


Have you been on that whacky backy?

I think we all ask ourselves these questions and observations mate. A lot of the questions can't be answered. I don't believe in ghosts.To me it's a load of bollox.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

JusNoGood said:


> Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but churches run what they call alpha courses which sound interesting. Like a chilled out intro to Christianity...free to go to with free cakes and coffee.
> 
> Me, luckily I've not got to the point where I've had the need to turn to anything.


I posted a link on the first or second page.


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

Might look into the Alpha avenue myself. Seems the best way to go about it.

p.s had never heard of it before - so thanks


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## lumpo (Aug 8, 2012)

balls to religion...if there was a god why did my gran and autie die of cancer, my mum and sister go through truly horrible things with cancer....these were good people.

If there's a god he can suck on my balls


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## lumpo (Aug 8, 2012)

this........


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Heeeere we go....


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)




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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Ashcrapper

And this is the thing that p!sses me right off about religion, all the dosh the Vatican has, the stupid advice on contraception & the millions of people who go w/o food.

Being brought up as a Catholic I was told that birth control was wrong. When I started using condoms, I felt guilty.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

And as for that sistine chapel, well overated, i wanted me money back, walked miles an' all


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Ok , I tried hard not to get involved but here's my 2 pence worth :

I turned to Christianity recently and it's the single best thing I have ever done .

I had no religious upbringing at all and have always walked a tight line between good / evil in my actions . Believing in God hasn't made me a better person , but it has made me want to be a better person for the people around me and to please God . I still have all the tempting thoughts I used to have but I just don't give in to them now as much as I did before and I'm grateful to God for everything he has given me.

@ Lumpo I'm sorry about the loss of your family and I'm sure they were good people , but that doesn't mean they will get any special treatment from God . Everything happens for a reason and Im a firm believer that you cannot earn your way to Heaven . Which brings me to Catholicism

I think the Carholic faith has turned people away from Christianity inc myself when I was younger . Even as a Baptised Christian man I am not welcome to take communion in a Catholic Church yet everything written about Jesus says he would turn nobody away . A lot (not all ) of Catholics think they can do what ever they like and as long as they confess their sins and put a few quid in the offering they will be forgiven by a MAN calling himself Father ! Only God can forgive - not man .

@ BigD29 Alpha course is a very good introduction or Christianity explained is also very good . Try to find an evangelical church locally and stay clear of the cult type organisations or old fashioned Anglican / Catholic Churches who aren't always the most welcoming . ( unless you are loaded  )

I've not posted this to offend anybody so I'm sorry if I have but just my personal opinion .


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

For me not at all,,all rubbish in my eyes

God is love,,yeah what a joke,,,god is war more like


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## The Project (Jul 21, 2007)

Can anyone tell me what war a Buddhist has started!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

The Project said:


> Can anyone tell me what war a Buddhist has started!


buddhists are atheists

just sayin


----------



## The Project (Jul 21, 2007)

And you know what about the religion? Wikipedia besides



Fatstuff said:


> buddhists are atheists
> 
> just sayin


----------



## Cythraul (Oct 5, 2011)

The Project said:


> Can anyone tell me what war a Buddhist has started!


Chinese civil war 

3.6 million dead

General Mao, then went onto kill around 50,000,000 more for his revolution.

Religion wasn't the cause, but he was still a Buddhist?

no matter whats your creed or race we'll find a reason to kill each other


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> Ok , I tried hard not to get involved but here's my 2 pence worth :
> 
> I turned to Christianity recently and it's the single best thing I have ever done .
> 
> ...


do you only believe in "god" as such, the christian one. bald bloke with nice beard sat on a cloud. or do you take into consideration the couple of thousand of other "gods" who have been worshipped over time?


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

The Project said:


> And you know what about the religion? Wikipedia besides


that its a load of bollocks?


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

The Project said:


> And you know what about the religion? Wikipedia besides


I bet i know a hell of a lot more about it than you


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

zack amin said:


> If you believe in a greater being, then why not read a few pages from the three main holy books, quran,bible,torah take an interest, I began readin the quran in english, interesting I have to say, never read a torah don't think you can get em in english tho?


yes they do an english torah bro, its the "old testament" in the King james bible (thought the order of the books change a bit, they are the same books)


----------



## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

Religion can do a lot for you, having faith and belief can make some people happier, make them try to be a better person and what not. Of course you have to put up with a lot of insulting comments, especially on UK muscle  even if it's something no one can prove.

It's not for me personally, but I understand people wanting to believe in something and I wouldn't insult people for it. Only thing I'm against is people who think their unproven opinion is better than anyone else's (both sides) and people who try to force religion on to you


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

lukeee said:


> And as for that sistine chapel, well overated, i wanted me money back, walked miles an' all


go on a Sunday, its crowded, but its free :thumb:

I'd be a hypocrite if I said I didn't believe in G-d; mostly because when the $hit hits the fan, i start talking (in my head) saying "g-d if you get me out of this, I will never, ever, do anything like this again...."


----------



## The Project (Jul 21, 2007)

And his religion was??????



Cythraul said:


> Chinese civil war
> 
> 3.6 million dead
> 
> ...


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

skd said:


> the body dies yes, but you cant say that your consiousness dies with it cos no fcucker knows for real do they.
> 
> tho i wouldnt subscribe to any religion, they are the cause of wars and division and control.


Just cause we don't know for real doesn't make it any more realistic

Nobody knows for sure if the world is going to turn in to a huge butt plug tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure it won't!


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

WilsonR6 said:


> Just cause we don't know for real doesn't make it any more realistic
> 
> Nobody knows for sure if the world is going to turn in to a huge butt plug tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure it won't!


the planet is populated by ar5eholes so it could well happen!


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> go on a Sunday, its crowded, but its free :thumb:
> 
> I'd be a hypocrite if I said I didn't believe in G-d; mostly because when the $hit hits the fan, i start talking (in my head) saying "g-d if you get me out of this, I will never, ever, do anything like this again...."


----------



## lumpo (Aug 8, 2012)

Catholicism

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/this-is-a-catholic-country-woman-dies-of-septicaemia-after-being-refused-an-abortion-in-irish-hospital-8315609.html


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> do you only believe in "god" as such, the christian one. bald bloke with nice beard sat on a cloud. or do you take into consideration the couple of thousand of other "gods" who have been worshipped over time?


I believe in the Christian God only - yes . God ( the father ) , the son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit .

Aka Triune God / Holy Trinity .

Don't think he's a bald guy with a nice beard sat on a cloud tho lol


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> I believe in the Christian God only - yes . God ( the father ) , the son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit .
> 
> Aka Triune God / Holy Trinity .
> 
> Don't think he's a bald guy with a nice beard sat on a cloud tho lol


why not if you believe in the "trinity" that's a hilarious concept.... and no more/less hilarious than old bald guy sat in a cloud..


----------



## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

every few weeks these threads pop up on here, and all they do for me is to confirm my belief that there are no group of people more obsessed with religion and more intolerant towards people of faith than atheists.


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> I believe in the Christian God only - yes . God ( the father ) , the son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit .
> 
> Aka Triune God / Holy Trinity .
> 
> Don't think he's a bald guy with a nice beard sat on a cloud tho lol


interesting response..

Comment from Ricky Gervais (if you hate him etc put that aside):



> The dictionary definition of God is "a supernatural creator and overseer of the universe." Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.
> 
> So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I'll say "Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?&#8230;" If they say "Just God. I only believe in the one God," I'll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don't believe in 2,870 gods, and they don't believe in 2,869.


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

No such thing as god, just a collective name for people wanting peace in their lives and food in the bellies. Now used as a weapon of hate to control people and brainwash them into ways of thinking.


----------



## chris27 (Apr 19, 2009)

I keep praying , holly mary mother of god please send me down a couple of bob but its not happened yet.......But i do believe in god


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> why not if you believe in the "trinity" that's a hilarious concept.... and no more/less hilarious than old bald guy sat in a cloud..


To me Scientology , Evolution , Atheism is hilarious .

I believe in Prophets etc as well as God but not that there are thousands of Gods . It would be a contradiction of Christianity or Islam . Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet , I believe he was God .

Only Hinduism believe in thousands of God's I think .


----------



## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)




----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> interesting response..
> 
> Comment from Ricky Gervais (if you hate him etc put that aside):


I agree to an extent with that Ricky Gervais thing . Lots of ppl believe in "GOD" but who or which one they are not sure .


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> interesting response..
> 
> Comment from Ricky Gervais (if you hate him etc put that aside):


I agree to an extent with that Ricky Gervais thing . Lots of ppl believe in "GOD" but who or which one they are not sure .


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> I believe in the Christian God only - yes . God ( the father ) , the son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit .
> 
> Aka Triune God / Holy Trinity .
> 
> Don't think he's a bald guy with a nice beard sat on a cloud tho lol


HEY... nobody said he had a 'nice' beard! i heard hes rockin a set of movember handlebars at the minute though, thinking about it, whys he even participating, he could just cure the cancer!!


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Shady45 said:


> Religion can do a lot for you, having faith and belief can make some people happier, make them try to be a better person and what not. Of course you have to put up with a lot of insulting comments, especially on UK muscle  even if it's something no one can prove.
> 
> It's not for me personally, but I understand people wanting to believe in something and I wouldn't insult people for it. Only thing I'm against is people who think their unproven opinion is better than anyone else's (both sides) and people who try to force religion on to you


Bloody good post!


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> HEY... nobody said he had a 'nice' beard! i heard hes rockin a set of movember handlebars at the minute though, thinking about it, whys he even participating, he could just cure the cancer!!


But if He cured cancer, the ppl would want something else, & so it would go on, leaving nothing for us to strive for?


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

latblaster said:


> But if He cured cancer, the ppl would want something else, & so it would go on, leaving nothing for us to strive for?


ah i gotcha, so hes given us cancer for our own good. Top bloke.

edit: that doesnt explain why hes rockin the handlebars :rolleye:


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Fatstuff said:


> HEY... nobody said he had a 'nice' beard! i heard hes rockin a set of movember handlebars at the minute though, *thinking about it, whys he even participating, he could just cure the cancer*!!


that was very good


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Fatstuff said:


> ah i gotcha, so hes given us cancer for our own good. Top bloke.
> 
> edit: that doesnt explain why hes rockin the handlebars :rolleye:


and again


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> go on a Sunday, its crowded, but its free :thumb:
> 
> I'd be a hypocrite if I said I didn't believe in G-d; mostly because when the $hit hits the fan, i start talking (in my head) saying "g-d if you get me out of this, I will never, ever, do anything like this again...."


Fcuk sake so I walked miles, payed money and got bored when I could of done it for free??

Aus I'd rather not of known!


----------



## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

25+ years ago somebody asked me what I think of god.

I replied, "I don't".

Period.

reading parts of this thread felt like i was watching a troop of monkeys staring and pointing into the sun in amazment at dawn ...

except that would make some sort of sense, however primitive

i find religious beliefs somewhere between sadly pathetic and incredibly offensive / demeaning

so if you're stupid enough to be offended by anything i've written

now you know how i feel.


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

spike said:


> 25+ years ago somebody asked me what I think of god.
> 
> I replied, "I don't".
> 
> ...


Im turned on by your vest


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

spike said:


> 25+ years ago somebody asked me what I think of god.
> 
> I replied, "I don't".
> 
> ...


I'm fcuking offended!!!

How dare an englishman use the word period in place of full stop!


----------



## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

Fatstuff said:


> I'm fcuking offended!!!
> 
> How dare an englishman use the word period in place of full stop!


lest you forget, i am the man without a country

plus it happened in California

the vest is photoshop courtesy of DiggyV

it appears i am the last of the remaining "sparklies"


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

spike said:


> lest you forget, i am the man without a country
> 
> plus it happened in California
> 
> ...


u got me there fella. I think u r the last m8!

That was a good social experiment of how fashion trends can snowball.


----------



## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

spike said:


> i find religious beliefs somewhere between sadly pathetic and incredibly offensive / demeaning


May I ask why?


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Shady45 said:


> May I ask why?


u may.

asking questions is free


----------



## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> u may.
> 
> asking questions is free


Answers are not always free though, spike may consider his opinion too valuable for non paying scum


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Shady45 said:


> Answers are not always free though, spike may consider his opinion too valuable for non paying scum


You know him as well then? lol


----------



## Shady45 (Jan 5, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> You know him as well then? lol


Haha 

As we were both created by God, we are kind of like brothers


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Shady45 said:


> Haha
> 
> As we were both created by God, we are kind of like brothers


brethren some might say...


----------



## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

latblaster said:


> But if He cured cancer, the ppl would want something else, & so it would go on, leaving nothing for us to strive for?


That is the most stupidest and offensive thing I think I've read in a long time. An all loving God striking people down with cancers just so he can see them struggle? For what purpose would their struggle serve?


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Cactus87 said:


> That is the most stupidest and offensive thing I think I've read in a long time. An all loving God striking people down with cancers just so he can see them struggle? For what purpose would their struggle serve?


gambling in heaven. angels can bet on who lives/dies


----------



## Mr_Socko (Sep 18, 2009)

When one person is deluded it's called insanity. When millions are deluded it's called religion.


----------



## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

DeadpoolX said:


> To me Scientology , Evolution , Atheism is hilarious .
> 
> I believe in Prophets etc as well as God but not that there are thousands of Gods . It would be a contradiction of Christianity or Islam . Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet , I believe he was God .
> 
> Only Hinduism believe in thousands of God's I think .


Did you turn to God because Christianity is the religion you know most about compared to other religions? For example if you were in India and had read the Vedas you would have most likely become Hindu? If in Iraq you'd most likely be a Muslim, If growing up in 1500's America whatever religion your native American tribe worshiped...


----------



## Guest (Nov 14, 2012)

Mr_Socko said:


> When one person is deluded it's called insanity. When millions are deluded it's called religion.


lol nice,

pretty much the same with mental health , if poor you are mentally ill , if rich you are eccentric .


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Cactus87 said:


> Did you turn to God because Christianity is the religion you know most about compared to other religions? For example if you were in India and had read the Vedas you would have most likely become Hindu? If in Iraq you'd most likely be a Muslim, If growing up in 1500's America whatever religion your native American tribe worshiped...


Probability would suggest that so I know what you mean .

For me personally I went to church because my wife wanted to and had a friend there in the mother and toddler groups . I sat in church every week for months and nothing made much sense I was just thinking about what I was gonna do when I got home . One day then I got quite emotional listening to the sermon and all the words started hitting home a lot more . Quite hard to accept as a sceptic I know , because I would have dismissed such claims not too long ago .

I can't prove to you that Christianity is right and others are wrong but it feels right to me .

If when I die I realise I've been wrong and it's all a load of nonsense then I've spent my life surrounded by like minded ppl who I enjoy the company of and I've treated ppl how I would want to be treated . Wouldnt be such a bad thing .


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> Probability would suggest that so I know what you mean .
> 
> For me personally I went to church because my wife wanted to and had a friend there in the mother and toddler groups . I sat in church every week for months and nothing made much sense I was just thinking about what I was gonna do when I got home . One day then I got quite emotional listening to the sermon and all the words started hitting home a lot more . Quite hard to accept as a sceptic I know , because I would have dismissed such claims not too long ago .
> 
> ...


U won't realise it because u will just die!


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Cactus87 said:


> That is the most stupidest and offensive thing I think I've read in a long time. An all loving God striking people down with cancers just so he can see them struggle? For what purpose would their struggle serve?


First of all it was a question, you can tell something is a question by this ? at the end of the sentence.

Which means I was asking for something to be explained to be explored & that is " stupid & offensive" because I asked something?

But my son, I will pray for you, pray that you are guided through your darkness.

:whistling:


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

yes im religeous (JW), been brought up since the age of 6, i know most people skit people who are religeous, but i firmly belive in what i study, and belive that by living by bible principles leads to a happier life...and i DL 220 and BENCH 140 so i cant be that weird lol..... que the jokes now....


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> yes im religeous (JW), been brought up since the age of 6, i know most people skit people who are religeous, but i firmly belive in what i study, and belive that by living by bible principles leads to a happier life...and i DL 220 and BENCH 140 so i cant be that weird lol..... que the jokes now....


Had 2 JW's knock my door today. I was a gentleman, just told them that I'm a non believer. They said 'aw that's a shame'

Patronising tw4ts!!


----------



## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

powerhousepeter said:


> yes im religeous (JW), been brought up since the age of 6, i know most people skit people who are religeous, but i firmly belive in what i study, and belive that by living by bible principles leads to a happier life...and i DL 220 and BENCH 140 so i cant be that weird lol..... que the jokes now....


Are you for real...not sure if ur serious or why your 220 and 140 pb's come into it lol


----------



## Little stu (Oct 26, 2011)

Yes I be leave in god


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> Had 2 JW's knock my door today. I was a gentleman, just told them that I'm a non believer. They said 'aw that's a shame'
> 
> Patronising tw4ts!!


unfortunatly i cant speak for everybody mate, but i know were not meant to be patronising


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> Are you for real...not sure if ur serious or why your 220 and 140 pb's come into it lol


yeah im for real mate, the 220 and 140 pb was just a laugh, just to show im normal, most people have the wrong conception of JW'S


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> unfortunatly i cant speak for everybody mate, but i know were not meant to be patronising


Lol I wasn't attacking all JW's just the 2 today


----------



## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

powerhousepeter said:


> yeah im for real mate, the 220 and 140 pb was just a laugh, just to show im normal, most people have the wrong conception of JW'S


I wouldnt have expected a JW to be on a forum like this...id have thought "bad associations spoil useful habbits"


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

powerhousepeter said:


> yeah im for real mate, the 220 and 140 pb was just a laugh, just to show im normal, most people have the wrong conception of JW'S


We used to have a boy at my school who was a JW . He took a lot of stick around Christmas time as he didn't get any gifts but would get his own back when his parents would randomly buy him a computer or something throughout the year .

Always felt a bit sorry for him though and got into my 1st proper fight at school when a lad knocked his glasses off and kept slapping him across the face . (Could help but intervene it was proper sick bullying )

I don't meet many happy JW 's but always wondered why ?

Is it because you believe Satan rules the earth ?


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> Lol I wasn't attacking all JW's just the 2 today


i know mate, but i also know of people who can be slightly patronising when they preach, which isnt how its meant to be done, but respect the fact you said you were polight


----------



## George-Bean (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm a Christian, say a prayer or two most days but I believe a single deed is worth a million prayers. I'm not one to preach and most people find it surprising if I mention it at work. I don't go to church. Ive always been a Christian, it's what my dad taught me and he was the best man Ive ever known. I'm a pretty unorthodox Christian, don't expect me to turn the other cheek etc.


----------



## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

I believe in god.. all I need to do is look at my reflection


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> I wouldnt have expected a JW to be on a forum like this...id have thought "bad associations spoil useful habbits"


lol that made me laugh mate, and yes you are right to a degree....you sounds like your speaking from experience


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Matt 1 said:


> I believe in god.. all I need to do is look at my reflection


Blasphemy


----------



## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> Blasphemy


yes dont do it, or i'll smite you ****


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> We used to have a boy at my school who was a JW . He took a lot of stick around Christmas time as he didn't get any gifts but would get his own back when his parents would randomly buy him a computer or something throughout the year .
> 
> Always felt a bit sorry for him though and got into my 1st proper fight at school when a lad knocked his glasses off and kept slapping him across the face . (Could help but intervene it was proper sick bullying )
> 
> ...


yeah christmas was always tough for me at school, think kids just think your weird and deprived etc, but i never went with out with anything, i used to get gifts all year round anyways, i cant speak for other JWS and how they deal with school etc and bullying, but people knew i was one in school, i was popular and had loads of friends, ok people used to have the odd skit, but id reply with a joke about there mum or something lol, and as far as fighting goes, obveously i dont agree with violence but if i had of been bullied to the point of it being physical i wouldnt of shyed away.

yea thats right we belive satan rules the earth, or the things that make up the earth i.e goverments etc


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@powerhousepeter

So you don't actually believe that Satan does rule the earth then, just the bad stuff that happens?

Coz that makes sense n'est pas?


----------



## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

powerhousepeter said:


> lol that made me laugh mate, and yes you are right to a degree....you sounds like your speaking from experience


experience? man i hated it till i got the balls at 14 to tell mumsy i wanted none of it, i wanted to listen to rap music, get laid and be my own man so i went against everything that little blue book "young people ask" preached about in the process caused mum alot of trouble but looking back i think i did the right thing for me...if it works for you then its all good...i just feel alot of the younguns with JW parents are too scared to speak out or disappoint their parents


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

latblaster said:


> @powerhousepeter
> 
> So you don't actually believe that Satan does rule the earth then, just the bad stuff that happens?
> 
> Coz that makes sense n'est pas?


sorry maybe what i said didnt make sence, i belive satan rules the earth yes, and as a result thats why so many bad things happen and are happening


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

powerhousepeter said:


> sorry maybe what i said didnt make sence, i belive satan rules the earth yes, and as a result thats why so many bad things happen and are happening


I don't think he rules the earth, but he has great influence.

Anyway, who is going to be the anti christ that is beleived to be on his/her way. Or has Hilary Clinton got the job?


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> experience? man i hated it till i got the balls at 14 to tell mumsy i wanted none of it, i wanted to listen to rap music, get laid and be my own man so i went against everything that little blue book "young people ask" preached about in the process caused mum alot of trouble but looking back i think i did the right thing for me...if it works for you then its all good...i just feel alot of the younguns with JW parents are too scared to speak out or disappoint their parents


i listen to rap and hip hop ;-) i do understand where your coming from tho mate, i respect the fact you decided it wasnt for you and made the decision, rather than coasting along to keep other people happy.

i found it tough when i was younger im not guna lie, but the older ive got the more involved ive got and the more i appreciate it now  theres a young people ask part 2 now mate!!!


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

latblaster said:


> I don't think he rules the earth, but he has great influence.
> 
> Anyway, who is going to be the anti christ that is beleived to be on his/her way. Or has Hilary Clinton got the job?


yea i agree, obveously there isnt a man called satan running a goverment thats not what i ment, but u hit the nail when you talk about infuence


----------



## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

im not religious but i have been touched up by a vicar. and had fantasies about sticking my winkle inside a Nun..


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

powerhousepeter said:


> sorry maybe what i said didnt make sence, i belive satan rules the earth yes, and as a result thats why so many bad things happen and are happening


It does make you think .

Although God's wrath can often be interpreted as Satans doing .

Why people think God should help them recover from cancer or save them in a situation when they do nothing to honour him is beyond me .

What makes ppl think human kind doesn't deserve the bad stuff that happens . We are all so sinful by nature .


----------



## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

powerhousepeter said:


> i listen to rap and hip hop ;-) i do understand where your coming from tho mate, i respect the fact you decided it wasnt for you and made the decision, rather than coasting along to keep other people happy.
> 
> i found it tough when i was younger im not guna lie, but the older ive got the more involved ive got and the more i appreciate it now  theres a young people ask part 2 now mate!!!


dont get it twisted i still go to the odd meeting when i go back to see mumsy, she likes to show off her grandson and how ive grown lol..i remember falling asleep on sunday mornings..but it now isnt as long as it used to be..so are you baptised and all that? how do you resist temptation from the opposite sex man??


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> It does make you think .
> 
> Although God's wrath can often be interpreted as Satans doing .
> 
> ...


Yea this is true, many people blame god if a loved one dies or something bad happens, as its obviously not fair, I've been affected by loosing a loved one to death and illness, bible talks about these things happening, true we are all sinful, hence why we make mistakes etc, but we believe the bad things that happen is a result of Satan and his influence


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Cactus87

C'mon mate, it's time for the "offensive & stupid" label...


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

DeadpoolX said:


> It does make you think .
> 
> Although God's wrath can often be interpreted as Satans doing .
> 
> ...


I have faith but not for one second do i think we have to honour God (im hoping you just put it wrong) i dont believe that a god would only help us if we honour him, not much of a god that!


----------



## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Ackee&Saltfish said:


> dont get it twisted i still go to the odd meeting when i go back to see mumsy, she likes to show off her grandson and how ive grown lol..i remember falling asleep on sunday mornings..but it now isnt as long as it used to be..so are you baptised and all that? how do you resist temptation from the opposite sex man??


That's good that u still go even if its to please your mum, yea Sundays can be hard sometimes lol, my meeting are Sunday afternoon so I get a ly-in...not so good for super Sunday on sky sports tho ill be honest lol. Nah the meeting is slightly shorter, and we only have one meeting in the week now instead of two. Yeah I'm baptised mate,since the age of 17, yes ill be honest it is really difficult as far as girls go and relationships, had a few that haven't worked out, but I'm happy now, and makes you appreciate things more, altho to the majority of guys they think its crazy lol


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@powerhousepeter

I seriously think that satan is responsible for Heroin.


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

lukeee said:


> I have faith but not for one second do i think we have to honour God (im hoping you just put it wrong) i dont believe that a god would only help us if we honour him, not much of a god that!


I did put it wrong .

I believe we receive God's love by grace .

We don't deserve it but we are offered it anyway. Whether we accept it or not is another matter .


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

well this thread is certainly a surprise, i thought it would be the usual christian **** take and bashing pile on but it's become a nice read.

it's good to know i'm not alone in my faith.


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

The point I was trying to make is that it surprises me when ppl expect God's help when they don't even aknowledge his existence most of the time .

Lots of ppl angry with a God they don't believe in .


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

i think that when you accept gods love into your life you become somewhat humble anyway, your life certainly changes for the better, everything about this life makes sense.


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

justin case said:


> i think that when you accept gods love into your life you become somewhat humble anyway, your life certainly changes for the better, everything about this life makes sense.


Absolutely agree .


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Yes!


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

People only really follow religion because of the promise of something after death. Humans are very self aware and the thought that life eventually expires is scary to most. Even more people can't understand how all the Earth, stars, galaxies etc formed but when you understand it and research it, it makes much more sense than "a magical fairy with a beard made it".


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## Trusted (May 11, 2012)

I made a post in this thread but didn't appear yet !


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> People only really follow religion because of the promise of something after death. Humans are very self aware and the thought that life eventually expires is scary to most. Even more people can't understand how all the Earth, stars, galaxies etc formed but when you understand it and research it, it makes much more sense than "a magical fairy with a beard made it".


The bible actually talkes about the stars and galaxies and how things are made in great detail and it's been proved right, bible even talked about the earth being a circular shape hundreds of years before Columbus found that out, alot of things are purposed in the bible, things that scientists take credit for, when in reality they were written down thousands of years before


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

justin case said:


> well this thread is certainly a surprise, i thought it would be the usual christian **** take and bashing pile on but it's become a nice read.
> 
> it's good to know i'm not alone in my faith.


Dont you worry fella it will return to the usual name calling and general mocking soon enough ive no doubt


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

powerhousepeter said:


> The bible actually talkes about the stars and galaxies and how things are made in great detail and it's been proved right, bible even talked about the earth being a circular shape hundreds of years before Columbus found that out, alot of things are purposed in the bible, things that scientists take credit for, when in reality they were written down thousands of years before


Please provide quotes when it explains about the accretion of hydrogen leading to nuclear reactions that create stars, and the supernova of these stars providing all the base elements that we see.

I won't hold my breath :lol:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> The bible actually talkes about the stars and galaxies and how things are made in great detail and it's been proved right, bible even talked about the earth being a circular shape hundreds of years before Columbus found that out, alot of things are purposed in the bible, things that scientists take credit for, when in reality they were written down thousands of years before


Behave lol


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> Please provide quotes when it explains about the accretion of hydrogen leading to nuclear reactions that create stars, and the supernova of these stars providing all the base elements that we see.
> 
> I won't hold my breath :lol:


Can you explain it though?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> Can you explain it though?


I doubt it but I bet he could provide quotes from a science book explaining it, that's all he is asking you to do.


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

It wouldn't make any difference if I could prove if to you from the bible, because you've already made your minds up from your ideas of what you think is right, wrong, or real


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> I doubt it but I bet he could provide quotes from a science book explaining it, that's all he is asking you to do.


I can prove about the earth being round and not suspended by nothing, that is in the bible in book of job.

Anyways I don't come on here to preach, if people genuinely want to know I'm happy to explain


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I told myself I wasn't going to get into a debate on this one as they are futile lol, I've done enough of that in every other similar thread and it really is pointless lol


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> I told myself I wasn't going to get into a debate on this one as they are futile lol, I've done enough of that in every other similar thread and it really is pointless lol


That's fair enough, that's your opinion and your view, just as I have mine


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> That's fair enough, that's your opinion and your view, just as I have mine


Of course


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

powerhousepeter said:


> Can you explain it though?


Accretion of hydrogen via gravity which causes such large tidal forces as to enable nuclear fusion within the core. As the hydrogen is burned it fuses to helium and progressively heavier elements until iron, where the energy provided by fusion of the atomic nucleus is less than the energy given off, meaning the end of the sustainable reaction - this causes the outward force of the nuclear fusion to be unable to hold the star against the gravity of the core, making the star collapse in on itself. I will admit I'm not clear on the mechanics of the next part and I cba googling it, but if a star is of sufficient mass a supernova will occur at this point, providing the temperatures and energy needed to fuse together elements heavier than iron. This is where every element heavier than iron comes from.

This ejected material will eventually acrete and form planets etc, which is where all the elements on earth come from.

Can't really explain the theories behind how the universe came about without discussing quantum mechanics etc and tbh it's very confusing and I find it hard to understand! But basically it is perfectly possible for something to come from nothing.



powerhousepeter said:


> It wouldn't make any difference if I could *prove* if to you from the *bible*, because you've already made your minds up from your ideas of what you think is right, wrong, or real


"Prove" and "Bible" make no sense ever being in the same sentence. It's like me saying I can prove that if a spider bites you you become a superhero because I read Spiderman


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> To me Scientology , Evolution , Atheism is hilarious .
> 
> I believe in Prophets etc as well as God but not that there are thousands of Gods . It would be a contradiction of Christianity or Islam . Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet , I believe he was God .
> 
> Only Hinduism believe in thousands of God's I think .


dude, evolution is hilarious?

Of course, we all descended from adam&eve.... incest is of course fine if you're catholic obviously (well why not, so is buggering little boys :lol: )


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Accretion of hydrogen via gravity which causes such large tidal forces as to enable nuclear fusion within the core. As the hydrogen is burned it fuses to helium and progressively heavier elements until iron, where the energy provided by fusion of the atomic nucleus is less than the energy given off, meaning the end of the sustainable reaction - this causes the outward force of the nuclear fusion to be unable to hold the star against the gravity of the core, making the star collapse in on itself. I will admit I'm not clear on the mechanics of the next part and I cba googling it, but if a star is of sufficient mass a supernova will occur at this point, providing the temperatures and energy needed to fuse together elements heavier than iron. This is where every element heavier than iron comes from.
> 
> This ejected material will eventually acrete and form planets etc, which is where all the elements on earth come from.
> 
> ...


See, no need for religion if you actually take the time to research and understand the universe, instead of blindly following a 2000 year old outdated idea


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## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)

DeadpoolX said:


> Why people think God should help them recover from cancer or save them in a situation when they do nothing to honour him is beyond me .
> 
> What makes ppl think human kind doesn't deserve the bad stuff that happens . We are all so sinful by nature .


Yeah all them babies that die and kids that get cancer deserve it because we'r all sinful :whistling:

What a fcuking load of bollox ! If god exists he's a massive **** !!!


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> yes im religeous (JW), been brought up since the age of 6, i know most people skit people who are religeous, but i firmly belive in what i study, and belive that by living by bible principles leads to a happier life...and i DL 220 and BENCH 140 so i cant be that weird lol..... que the jokes now....


This is a serious question not a dig. Isnt vanity a sin? You believe in the holy spirit and that your spirit will continue after you die. Why then are you bodybuilding? Pride is a sin. You're proud of your lifts even though they will be useless in the spirit world. If you are doing these things for health,why does it matter when you ultimately believe when you die you'll go to heaven anyway?


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

bigD29 said:


> Guys I wanted a belief to believe in the after life. If there is no after life then what is the point of life?
> 
> When we die can we remember our life? Do we keep memories or does the soul go to heaven? I don't know the answers.
> 
> ...


The paranormal and the supernatural are two different things. But they're both nonsense.



DeadpoolX said:


> Ok , I tried hard not to get involved but here's my 2 pence worth :
> 
> I turned to Christianity recently and it's the single best thing I have ever done .
> 
> ...


For what reason do little babies get raped? For what reason do peadophiles and rapists do their thing every day throughout the world and get away with it? For what reason do dogs get set alight and tortured to death? For what reason was the holocaust? Your statement is an offense to everyone and anyone. Utter drivel.

You don't need to believe in a deity to be a 'good' person as defined by society. Be good, for GOODness sake.



justin case said:


> every few weeks these threads pop up on here, and all they do for me is to confirm my belief that there are no group of people more obsessed with religion and more intolerant towards people of faith than atheists.


It's because we're just shocked and so very disappointed to hear that these nonsensical, illogical and moronic views are still expressed in 2012. Fair enough that the older generation believe in it; they've had a whole lot longer living in their delusions. But young people? There is absolutely no excuse. It's pathetic and an insult to humanity and the universe. People should not be allowed to talk about religion in public - and I do my very best to humiliate them if they talk about their belief in a deity.



DeadpoolX said:


> To me...Evolution...is hilarious .


Right...well you're not that clever then are you? There is literally tonnes of direct evidence for evolution. Tonnes of it. Read a couple of books, or go to any science museum. In fact you can start by feeling your own tail bone, a useless remnant of evolution still to be 'phased out'.

You have not got one single shred of evidence for your belief, which I find extremely strange. You gather evidence every single day, even walking across the street checking for traffic. For talk sake, go ahead and do that without gathering any evidence and see where it gets you. (I'm not actually suggesting you do it).

Science and all it holds is MUCH more beautiful than any imaginary being; unless of course, you're ignorant, naive, gullible, brainwashed, or simply stupid. Or all of the above.

Why do you think that someone created the universe? If they did, who created that being? Many people believe in a creator to simplify things in their heads. But they're doing the opposite and making more work for themselves, if they were to think logically about it.

And you were getting very close to Pascals Wager, which ties in closely to the OP's first post of choosing a religion and then believing in it. Belief doesn't come through will or want; you have to actually believe in it. And your god will know if you're being genuine or not, being all powerful and everything.

And another thing; studies have been carried out on the power of prayer, which of course showed that praying for people has no effect at all.

As someone else pointed out, religion will be one day a thing of the past, through the help of natural selection. Halle-fuc king-lujah.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

DeadpoolX said:


> Why people think God should help them recover from cancer or save them in a situation when they do nothing to honour him is beyond me .


Maybe it's because he's touted as being the all-loving, all-compassionate father figure of our universe?

Frankly, dangling the false promise of relief or good health in front of a cancer-ridden child as a reward for loving and honouring god is entirely grotesque and morally bankrupt. Further, the reciprocal implication that people who live virtuous lives in god's service never suffer is patently ridiculous.



> What makes ppl think human kind doesn't deserve the bad stuff that happens . We are all so sinful by nature .


People by and large acknowledge that bad stuff just happens, and they don't actually have an irrational expectation to be protected from it by magical forces (except I suppose, rather ironically, for some of the people who believe that god is looking out for them). The only reason they say things like "what have I done to deserve this?" is because of cultural-linguistic artefacts.

I find it bizarre that people can look at tragedies such as chronic illness or horrific natural disasters and casually declare that humans, all humans, deserve to suffer them, "because why not?"

I mean it's one thing to point out a sinful act such as murder and suggest that that person deserves punishment. But it's quite another to try and blithely co-opt harmful natural occurrences as some kind of universal punishment for thought crimes, perceived sins, possible future transgressions, or infractions against a moral code that the victims don't even subscribe to. Whenever I hear people talking like this, it's difficult to believe that they aren't actively looking for ways to justify why victims should suffer.

If I believed the Christian god existed, as he is described in the bible and by his advocates on earth, I'd feel morally and ethically obliged to oppose him in any way I could. And the fact that intelligent people like yourself can be made to volunteer such morally reprehensible blessings is exactly the reason why.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

@Prophecy, I can't help but giggle at the irony of your user name

Prophecy:

n pl -cies

1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology)

a.* a message of divine truth revealing God's will

b.* the act of uttering such a message

2. a prediction or guess

3. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) the function, activity, or charismatic endowment of a prophet or prophets

[ultimately from Greek proph?t?s prophet]


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

LOL. It came about when playing Halo in a 'Pro' team. It was originally 'Profaeces' but then turned into 'Prophecy'.

No religious relevancy intended.


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

Religious, no chance just look at the reason most of the wars past and present are caused by and that's religion, just a belief. Sad when you think about it .


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

justin case said:


> i think that when you accept gods love into your life you become somewhat humble anyway, your life certainly changes for the better, everything about this life makes sense.


Question for you specifically Justin, since all indications are that you're totally sincere and genuine in your belief:

What would be the functional difference, if any, between you accepting god's love into your life as you have done, and someone else simply imagining it?


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

Here in Northern Ireland people still kill eachother because they worship the same god in a slightly different way. Of course it's gone way past that, but that's what it boils down to.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

powerhousepeter said:


> I can prove about the earth being round and not suspended by nothing, that is in the bible in book of job.
> 
> Anyways I don't come on here to preach, if people genuinely want to know I'm happy to explain


Re this and your previous comment... To be fair, Columbus didn't "discover" that the world was round, as that had actually been known since the Ancient Greeks, whose civilisation pre-dates the composite myth scrapbook you're talking about. Anyone who has been to a good wide beach has seen the measurable curvature of the water horizon and would probably notice that it's the same on all other beaches, everywhere they travelled to. It doesn't take a genius to infer the overall shape of the world from such an obvious set of clues.

I don't think you're aware of this, but the subscription of the scientific/naturalist establishment in the Middle Ages to a "flat earth" model is basically mythical.


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

Wavelength said:


> Question for you specifically Justin, since all indications are that you're totally sincere and genuine in your belief:
> 
> What would be the functional difference, if any, between you accepting god's love into your life as you have done, and someone else simply imagining it?


to know the absolute answer to that you would have to accept gods love....you have chosen to reject god out of your life, but god will follow you untill the day you die, that is how much he loves you....and thats the best answer i can give you.


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

i remember being taught in school about where rain came from, and it was evaporation and clouds forming......and in another lesson about evolution they tried to say the worlds oceans were formed by rain that lasted millions of years...even at that tender age i could see the stupid contradiction in that.


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

justin case said:


> to know the absolute answer to that you would have to accept gods love....you have chosen to reject god out of your life, but god will follow you untill the day you die, that is how much he loves you....and thats the best answer i can give you.


Wasn't really an answer to his question though...lol. If you were to imagine everything about your relationship with god, which some would say you are doing, the results would not differ compared to if there was actually a god existing. Agreed?

I accepted god's love when I was brainwashed as a child. (Maybe accept isn't the right word, LOL) I was sincere in my beliefs and my 'love' for god. When I was a teenager I grew a pair and realised no gods could possibly exist just like santa doesn't exist and that the whole thing was illogical. But the results are exactly the same; nothing has changed in my life with regards to what I thought I was gaining from god. Apart from the fact that I feel untethered and free from religion, of course. And there is no better feeling. You should try it!


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

Another good thought experiment which I honestly hope you try;

In your mind, think about all those things which just don't make any sense to you, or the ones you've spent a long time rationalising to yourself. This would probably include the painful death of a loved one, or how god barbarically mass murdered the innocent Midianites as a seemingly racist crime.

Now just think to yourself for even 30 seconds that there is NO god and the Bible is simply mythical. No higher powers, no supernatural beings. Doesn't that feel nice? All your questions that you so rightly question now make complete sense and it feels good!


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Here we go again ffs, saying that Santa doesn't exist!!!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

latblaster said:


> Here we go again ffs, saying that Santa doesn't exist!!!


Its just horrible i tell you! But infact he DOES EXIST  The real santa lives in Finland


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

LOL, sorry to burst your bubble lads. He does exist, I was only joking. This conversation is for adults only.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

*phew*


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Prophecy said:


> LOL, sorry to burst your bubble lads. He does exist, I was only joking. This conversation is for adults only.


Oi ! Dont talk sh!t about a man that can bulk on milk and cookies! Thats hardcore i tell you hardcore!


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## Coop (Sep 8, 2007)

Id like to ask the christians on this forum, what they make of all the mesiahs that were around before christ that had very very similar stories as jesus such as horus an egyptian god.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Coop said:


> Id like to ask the christians on this forum, what they make of all the mesiahs that were around before christ that had very very similar stories as jesus such as horus an egyptian god.


Post up some of the stuff mate, I'd like to see this & I'm too busy to go rifling around.


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## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

latblaster said:


> First of all it was a question, you can tell something is a question by this ? at the end of the sentence.
> 
> Which means I was asking for something to be explained to be explored & that is " stupid & offensive" because I asked something?
> 
> But my son, I will pray for you, pray that you are guided through your darkness.


Yes I do know what a question is  I just read it in a way that it seemed to me that i was also your answer to why God wouldn't cure cancer.

Cheers for the prayer! :devil2:


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Cactus87 said:


> Yes I do know what a question is  I just read it in a way that it seemed to me that i was also your answer to why God wouldn't cure cancer.
> 
> Cheers for the prayer! :devil2:


Well be a bit more certain of your facts, before becoming seditious, my brother.

Will you join me in prayer now?


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## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

latblaster said:


> Well be a bit more certain of your facts, before becoming seditious, my brother.
> 
> Will you join me in prayer now?


Wasn't seditious, just didn't read it in the way you meant it to be read, I see how I misinterpreted your post. 

Prayer? Nah, you're alright :thumb:


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Cactus87 said:


> Wasn't seditious, just didn't read it in the way you meant it to be read, I see how I misinterpreted your post.
> 
> Prayer? Nah, you're alright :thumb:


But my son, if I may call you that, you & I joined in prayer can do much good in this troubled world.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

I was brought up a catholic (school, church, that sort of thing). And much of it does seem indoctrination - well a lot of it across the board, really.

And ignoring any cheap gags about catholics, and other radio and TV stars, getting them whilst they're young... that does seem to be the way - most of the major religions seem to have quite a key thing about bringing up your kids that way - before they're intellectually developed and independent enough to weigh it up with their own beliefs.

That's one of my big problems with it, really - well that, and, but for the sanctity of certain privileged subjects, there, but for the grace of <deity> goes the mentally ill.

I do wonder for all that have faith and belief, were they not told about / indoctrinated / "educated" from a very early age about the existence of a deity, and any particular belief system, would they still have the same belief / faith?

I mean, I'm happy to live and let live, for those that have evolved to believing in some deity and belief system, as an adult, or at least intellectually mature, found it for themself, researched it, and come to believe in it.

The problem I have is that were it for any other, how can I word this, "delusions" that people believe in - something of supernatural origin, or voices in their head, or belief in some other rationale that clearly sounds bat-shit crazy, society would largely deem them a bit, well, mental. I mean you've only got to look at some of the so called "religions" that many largely consider to be cult-like, to realise that many see them as completely bizarre and crazy, yet there's some privileged and rich that give it wings, and predatory and overly trigger happy legal response.

It just seems to me that the modus operandi seems to be "get them whilst they're intellectually vulnerable and impressionable - or get them whilst they're adults, but mentally impressionable, vulnerable or damaged..." and for the latter, in some cases, even more so if they're rich.

My fundamental concern, though, is without the imprinting and conditioning of people whilst they are young children - would these deep seated beliefs in some deity still occur in intellectually mature people who'd encountered the notion organically. For some, I still suspect it would happen - I think there's a certain demographic that are susceptible to such beliefs - maybe circumstantially, maybe simply how they've evolved, maybe genetically - however, I suspect without the imprinting / conditioning / indoctrination of the young, I suspect the numbers of believers would be radically different.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Coop said:


> Id like to ask the christians on this forum, *what they make of all the mesiahs* that were around before christ that had very very similar stories as jesus such as horus an egyptian god.


they were all very naughty boys!

(someone had to say it!!)


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## Cactus87 (Mar 30, 2009)

latblaster said:


> But my son, if I may call you that, you & I joined in prayer can do much good in this troubled world.


Not sure what your obsession about praying with me is :wub: but I`ll pass :thumb:


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

latblaster said:


> Here we go again ffs, saying that Santa doesn't exist!!!


****s eh!!


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Paul.B. said:


> @Prophecy, I can't help but giggle at the irony of your user name
> 
> Prophecy:
> 
> ...





Wavelength said:


> Maybe it's because he's touted as being the all-loving, all-compassionate father figure of our universe?
> 
> Frankly, dangling the false promise of relief or good health in front of a cancer-ridden child as a reward for loving and honouring god is entirely grotesque and morally bankrupt. Further, the reciprocal implication that people who live virtuous lives in god's service never suffer is patently ridiculous.
> 
> ...





Prophecy said:


> The paranormal and the supernatural are two different things. But they're both nonsense.
> 
> For what reason do little babies get raped? For what reason do peadophiles and rapists do their thing every day throughout the world and get away with it? For what reason do dogs get set alight and tortured to death? For what reason was the holocaust? Your statement is an offense to everyone and anyone. Utter drivel.
> 
> ...


I was enjoying this debate when it was friendly and just giving information on what we believe in . If my comments are an "offence to everyone"then I'm sorry and for that reason I'm out .

As for the personal jibes , it's sad that you feel the need to take it this level but I probably earn more in a week than you do in a month , so imagine if I was actually "clever ".

Intelligence has nothing to do with it - it's a feeling and a belief .


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Cactus87 said:


> Not sure what your obsession about praying with me is :wub: but I`ll pass :thumb:


Oh nothing really, just seeing how far I could take it!!! :lol: :lol:


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

DeadpoolX said:


> I was enjoying this debate when it was friendly and just giving information on what we believe in . If my comments are an "offence to everyone"then I'm sorry and for that reason I'm out .
> 
> As for the personal jibes , it's sad that you feel the need to take it this level but I probably earn more in a week than you do in a month , so imagine if I was actually "clever ".
> 
> Intelligence has nothing to do with it - it's a feeling and a belief .


No idea why youve quoted me mate. Nowhere have I posted any personal jibes at you. I'm a live and let live sort of guy. You can believe what you like and I will respect that. Ive got a couple of Christian friends, theyre obviously crazy(joking). They're normal and don't push they're beliefs down my throat. Unless youre well studied in religious education it's pretty difficult to put an argument across to all the non believing c nts on here.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Ok ok everyone join hands & we'll have a prayer meeting.

Father @Cactus87 will lead...


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well .... Really this has been an interesting read. Never expected this response.

By the way there are some people that believe Aliens created us and put us here to mine gold for them. Some crazy theories out there but the truth is No body knows the truth.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

bigD29 said:


> Well .... Really this has been an interesting read. Never expected this response.
> 
> By the way there are some people that believe Aliens created us and put us here to mine gold for them. Some crazy theories out there but the truth is No body knows the truth.


Some sightings from Anonymous:


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Paul.B. said:


> No idea why youve quoted me mate. Nowhere have I posted any personal jibes at you. I'm a live and let live sort of guy. You can believe what you like and I will respect that. Ive got a couple of Christian friends, theyre obviously crazy(joking). They're normal and don't push they're beliefs down my throat. Unless youre well studied in religious education it's pretty difficult to put an argument across to all the non believing c nts on here.


It was Prophesy that I quoted mate , it copied his whole message .


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

Defo think somethings going on with the UFO thing.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

bigD29 said:


> Well .... Really this has been an interesting read. Never expected this response.
> 
> By the way there are some people that believe Aliens created us and put us here to mine gold for them. Some crazy theories out there but the truth is No body knows the truth.


I guess through the eyes of religion we can view all theories humans come up with, with equal merit, then. Oh..., hang on... we can't - well least not according to them.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

bigD29 said:


> Well .... Really this has been an interesting read. Never expected this response.
> 
> By the way there are some people that believe Aliens created us and put us here to mine gold for them. Some crazy theories out there but the truth is No body knows the truth.


some REALLY crazy theories out there m8


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> Intelligence has nothing to do with it - it's a feeling and a belief .


A genuine question - one that I find rarely gets an honest, straight answer, from those who have faith...

Your feelings and beliefs - were they totally organic, with no external influence, that you came to your own conclusions once intellectually mature? Or were you told certain things when too young and intellectually imature to question, and since have become rather automatic "feeling"s and "belief"s?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

bigD29 said:


> Defo think somethings going on with the UFO thing.


Yup, alot of people on YT are now videoing using IR cameras, & loads of UFO's are showing up.

They are not planes or birds & show intelligent controlled flight.

**Waits for the backlash**


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> A genuine question - one that I find rarely gets an honest, straight answer, from those who have faith...
> 
> Your feelings and beliefs - were they totally organic, with no external influence, that you came to your own conclusions once intellectually mature? Or were you told certain things when too young and intellectually imature to question, and since have become rather automatic "feeling"s and "belief"s?


I wasn't brought up in church at all . I wasn't anti religion or anything and deep down I thought there was a god and took interest in RE at school looking at all the different religions .

I became a Christian within the last year @29 years old so it was quite a dramatic and strong feeling and very organic yes .


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

I kind of 'left religion' after having had it shoved down my throat for so long.

But due to life's experiences & other things, I came back to God. He was always there though.

If I was to explain on here about prayer, the doubters would have a great time mocking me, & it does nothing to alter my beleif.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> I wasn't brought up in church at all . I wasn't anti religion or anything and deep down I thought there was a god and took interest in RE at school looking at all the different religions .


I didn't ask about church, specifically, nor religious schools - what I meant, was that when you were brought up from being an infant, did older people and adults, talk about / mention "God" is if it was an absolute - perhaps even in a casual manner.

It was that I meant more than anything else, really - I've seen and watched / listened to people around kids, specifically I've watched other adults around my own kids, and I'm not anti-religion at all, but the amount of people (teachers - they don't go to a religious / religion based school); family members; other adults / friends) that mention "God" as a matter of course, occasionally, and it's no wonder so many growing up with that as the default position, and some being skeptical or cynical as they become intellectually independent.

I've watched my kids as they been at school, in their first years at school, and even a little before - their beliefs are entirely dictated to them by people they perceive as being more knowledgable or being "in charge" of them.



DeadpoolX said:


> I became a Christian within the last year @29 years old so it was quite a dramatic and strong feeling and very organic yes .


Truth be told, I'm more interested in when the initial belief started, as opposed to when you decided to opt in to an organised religion.

Personally, I'm convinced that there would be more independent belief and thought, were people a lot more careful about what they say around young children, until they're old enough to challenge and evaluate such ideas. That said, having some background in religion, some of that is by design.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

latblaster said:


> I kind of 'left religion' after having had it shoved down my throat for so long.
> 
> But due to life's experiences & other things, I came back to God. He was always there though.
> 
> If I was to explain on here about prayer, the doubters would have a great time mocking me, & it does nothing to alter my beleif.


Personally, I'm not really about mocking peoples' beliefs or choices.

What I don't get / accept / like, is that it's always been so prevalent in society that many of these religious concepts are embedded in our children before they're old enough to question and be skeptical in their own right.

Belief - I've no problem with - influence - why should I, as an agnostic be expected to give credence / allowance for somebody who believes in "god" any more than somebody who's decided to believe in some other supernatural idea.


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

Paul.B. said:


> This is a serious question not a dig. Isnt vanity a sin? You believe in the holy spirit and that your spirit will continue after you die. Why then are you bodybuilding? Pride is a sin. You're proud of your lifts even though they will be useless in the spirit world. If you are doing these things for health,why does it matter when you ultimately believe when you die you'll go to heaven anyway?


Theres actually a scripture in the bible that says ' bodily training is benificial for a little'  i don't believe the spirit continues after you die, I believe once you die that's it, the spirit or soul how ever u wanna say it dies. We don't believe in going to heaven or hell


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

powerhousepeter said:


> Theres actually a scripture in the bible that says ' bodily training is benificial for a little'  i don't believe the spirit continues after you die, I believe once you die that's it, the spirit or soul how ever u wanna say it dies. We don't believe in going to heaven or hell


Well what about NDE's, there have been several important studies done on this with surprising results. A big one was done at Southampton General.


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

latblaster said:


> Here we go again ffs, saying that Santa doesn't exist!!!


Your joking!!??.........


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

latblaster said:


> Well what about NDE's, there have been several important studies done on this with surprising results. A big one was done at Southampton General.


Uve lost me sorry m8


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

powerhousepeter said:


> Your joking!!??.........


No I am not, Santa is real, as real as you (if you do actually exist & aren't a clever computer) & me!!!!

:whistling:


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

powerhousepeter said:


> Your joking!!??.........


We all know Latblaster is unstable, but even I know Santa DOES exist!


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> You don't need proof to believe something. That's the whole point of belief - it's not reliant on proof.


That's why it's basic in science (psychology) to differentiate between "belief" and "knowledge".



The Cheese said:


> I'm not a big fan of religion but then neither am I a big fan of militant atheism. To those who say that it's ridiculous to believe in an afterlife, I ask - how is it more ridiculous than believing in the here and now?


Well many philosphers have got in there before you - not least of all René Descartes with his enigmatic "I think, therefore I am".

(which isn't a perfect assumption, but is at least a starting point for many...)


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Paul.B. said:


> We all know Latblaster is unstable, but even I know Santa DOES exist!


Repped!!! :lol:


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Or you could look at it another way and state that "science" has brainwashed you into thinking that's all that you are.
> 
> Study Descartes. "I think, therefore I am". The only thing you know for sure is that you exist. Everything else, and I mean *everything* is just a perception. There is no proof whatsoever that the computer you've just typed on exists. It's just your perception. For all you know, you could be a brain in a vat:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat


Even Descartes take, whilst perhaps valid as a reasonable assumption, over time, has been questioned.

How would you know if you were real, or synthesised? Books and films have explored this, a film that specifically referenced Descartes "I think, therefore I am" was The Thirteenth Floor - in which the entire proposition that being capable of "thought" really wasn't sufficient to presume that you were actually real, and could be entirely synthesised by technology.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God. Tom Stoppard


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Well many philosphers have got in there before you - not least of all René Descartes with his enigmatic "I think, therefore I am".
> 
> (which isn't a perfect assumption, but is at least a starting point for many...)


Heh!! You shoulda read on where I used Descarte's quote and advised the guy to read up on him.

You say it's not a perfect assumption but it's never been disproven. Some (like John Locke) have tried but it tends to be one of the only philisophical statements that's stood the test of time.

And it's not just a starting point. It's a finishing point too!!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

latblaster said:


> Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God. Tom Stoppard


LOL, there is sooo much wrong with this


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> I didn't ask about church, specifically, nor religious schools - what I meant, was that when you were brought up from being an infant, did older people and adults, talk about / mention "God" is if it was an absolute - perhaps even in a casual manner.
> 
> It was that I meant more than anything else, really - I've seen and watched / listened to people around kids, specifically I've watched other adults around my own kids, and I'm not anti-religion at all, but the amount of people (teachers - they don't go to a religious / religion based school); family members; other adults / friends) that mention "God" as a matter of course, occasionally, and it's no wonder so many growing up with that as the default position, and some being skeptical or cynical as they become intellectually independent.
> 
> ...


Sorry I thought you meant church influence .

The only mention of God as a child was from my nan who used to say " Good night , God bless " on the rare occasion that we slept over their house and RE lessons at school .

My RE teacher was a Buddhist not a Christian btw .

As for children I don't believe it should be rammed down their throat and I certainly wouldn't get my child christened . That's why I go to a Baptist church where you can only be baptised when your old enough to make the decision yourself . (Confirmation in Church of England /Wales etc )


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> Heh!! You shoulda read on where I used Descarte's quote and advised the guy to read up on him.
> 
> You say it's not a perfect assumption but it's never been disproven.


Well it's not science based on evidence, it's a philosphical assumption - and it's been used, many times, in literature / entertainment, as the starting point of a bogus assumption - ie that those that were simulated, didn't realise, until an epiphany, that they weren't "real".

In it's day, given what was known at the time, it sounds a very real, compelling philosphical assumption - but going off what's been postulated, and how technology has developed and evolved - as various bits of fiction have explored - what was once a fundamental, basic assumption, is now, really, not so axiomatic.



The Cheese said:


> Some (like John Locke) have tried but it tends to be one of the only philisophical statements that's stood the test of time.
> 
> And it's not just a starting point. It's a finishing point too!!


It's stood the test of time because it's enigmatic, and has been spouted largely as an unthinking axiom. In recent times, people have "philosophised" in fiction in ways that challenge that assumption - and in fairness, with what we know now and can loosely predict, seems reasonable to no longer think of it as absolute.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

latblaster said:


> Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God. Tom Stoppard


Not that I don't get some of the point - and in some cases, it's become trendy to be very polarised and militant with atheism. And in fairness, I get some of their point, they would argue it's needed because of the illogical and unfounded impacts it has on areas where it shouldn't.

All the same, agnosticism is largely grouped in with atheism, and doesn't have an presumptions or leaps of faith - it's merely the scientific, open-mind, that whilst in the absence of evidence, no conclusions can be reached - therefore, no independently verifiable evidence, no reason to believe in the supernatural.


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

Jaff0 said:


> Well it's not science based on evidence, it's a philosphical assumption - and it's been used, many times, in literature / entertainment, as the starting point of a bogus assumption - ie that those that were simulated, didn't realise, until an epiphany, that they weren't "real".
> 
> In it's day, given what was known at the time, it sounds a very real, compelling philosphical assumption - but going off what's been postulated, and how technology has developed and evolved - as various bits of fiction have explored - what was once a fundamental, basic assumption, is now, really, not so axiomatic.
> 
> It's stood the test of time because it's enigmatic, and has been spouted largely as an unthinking axiom. In recent times, people have "philosophised" in fiction in ways that challenge that assumption - and in fairness, with what we know now and can loosely predict, seems reasonable to no longer think of it as absolute.


^^^ finally, along comes Jaff0 ........

a drop of modern rationality in an ocean of medieval ignorance ^^^


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> Sorry I thought you meant church influence .
> 
> The only mention of God as a child was from my nan who used to say " Good night , God bless " on the rare occasion that we slept over their house and RE lessons at school .


I think that's some of the problem, though - kids get exposed from a young age, by people - probably stuck in the same cycle, who were also influenced in their early years. It gets mentioned, and kids aren't old enough to do anything other than really accept that what older people are saying is the absolute truth.

I've seen it mentioned casually, by adults, family, other parents, teachers. My kids are still fairly young, my youngest (just started reception) is probably too young to have any belief other than what he's told, and my oldest (8) largely does believe - but that's not because of what was as his parents have said at home.

I'm not anti-religion, although I have made it clear that I'd like my kids to be able to make up their own minds once they're old enough, so around the house / home, it wouldn't be mentioned - but it is in other scenarios, and that's where it starts - because when they hear it, those that mention or talk about it, it's done in an absolute sense, and being so young, they're very impressionable.

There's probably many that have gone through religious schools and churches that are much more skeptical - because after a while, you start to see the wires. It's the casual, off-the-cuff, absolutism of those that would say the odd thing in day-to-day life, that probably has more of an effect.

Plus, when kids are very young, we take some liberties in trying to explain when somebody they know dies.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

justin case said:


> every few weeks these threads pop up on here, and all they do for me is to confirm my belief that there are no group of people more obsessed with religion and more intolerant towards people of faith than atheists.


Some atheists, I'll grant you.

There are those out there, and they do so for reasons they believe valid (largely as a counter to the influence various religions wield in society).

If I was to make a finger in the air guess, I would ascribe that group to be no more statistically greater or representative, than those at the extremes of religion, being representative of specific religions.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> To me Scientology , Evolution , Atheism is hilarious .


From an arbitrary perspective, though - say, somebody who doesn't buy into any supernatural based religions, why should they not just lump christianity into all those as being equally "hilarious"?

Or any of this, for that matter:-



DeadpoolX said:


> I believe in Prophets etc as well as God but not that there are thousands of Gods . It would be a contradiction of Christianity or Islam . Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet , I believe he was God .


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

jon-kent said:


> View attachment 100796


Is that Penn Jillette?


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> I think that's some of the problem, though - kids get exposed from a young age, by people - probably stuck in the same cycle, who were also influenced in their early years. It gets mentioned, and kids aren't old enough to do anything other than really accept that what older people are saying is the absolute truth.
> 
> I've seen it mentioned casually, by adults, family, other parents, teachers. My kids are still fairly young, my youngest (just started reception) is probably too young to have any belief other than what he's told, and my oldest (8) largely does believe - but that's not because of what was as his parents have said at home.
> 
> ...


It's also equally impressionable to tell a child that there is no God and its all a fairy tale . I agree with you that children should be allowed to make there own mind up and I wouldn't for one minute disown any of my children if they became a Buddhist , Atheist or anything else .


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> It's also equally impressionable to tell a child that there is no God and its all a fairy tale .


I haven't advocated that.

I just think that when they're at a young age, whatever they're told by older people or grown-ups, they largely believe. That can be cyclical, and repeat itself in history.

What I'm suggesting, is that that core belief - assumption, wouldn't be anything like so prevalent, were it not things told, said, or mentioned to kids when they're very young.



DeadpoolX said:


> I agree with you that children should be allowed to make there own mind up and I wouldn't for one minute disown any of my children if they became a Buddhist , Atheist or anything else .


When and why do you believe / recall your belief in god stems from? Is it from a very early age - if so why so?

If it was a belief that you only accepted once intellectually mature, what convinced you?


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> I haven't advocated that.
> 
> I just think that when they're at a young age, whatever they're told by older people or grown-ups, they largely believe. That can be cyclical, and repeat itself in history.
> 
> ...


It sounds egotistical to say this but I always believed I had a purpose and I wasn't just a product of millions of years in evolution or a random life form in an endless universe .

I can't recall any feelings toward God at all as a child and don't think I thought too much about it .

My main influences came when I moved house last year and lots and lots of coincidences happened . Some led me to end up going to Church , others helped me understand and help with doubts .

I still have doubts and have days where I think I'll just revert back to my old ways and just get on with life . But there was always something missing . On paper I had everything you could ever wish for but I was'nt satisfied or content . When I accepted that I was fighting something that deep within I really did believe in - the happiness and contentment came . It made no sense to me and I even surprise myself when I post things on here or speak to old friends , but I'm happy .

18 months ago If you had told me or any of my mates that I would be living the life I'm loving now they would have laughed and said don't be silly .


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> It sounds egotistical to say this but I always believed I had a purpose and I wasn't just a product of millions of years in evolution or a random life form in an endless universe .
> 
> I can't recall any feelings toward God at all as a child and don't think I thought too much about it .
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about your feelings about religion, or feelings about god as a deity - I'm trying to establish, when you recall your belief in god as a deity first occurred.

That's what I'm trying to establish.


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

About 6 months ago In Church one Sunday morning I got all emotional and didn't know why . That was the 1st day I genuinely believed .


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> About 6 months ago In Church one Sunday morning I got all emotional and didn't know why . That was the 1st day I genuinely believed .


Believed in the whole religion thing - or that was the first time you actually believed in god?

Before and up to that point you didn't?

If so, why were you there? Just for others?


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Believed in the whole religion thing - or that was the first time you actually believed in god?
> 
> Before and up to that point you didn't?
> 
> If so, why were you there? Just for others?


1st time I truly believed in God .

I was there for my wife who had been invited to a mother & toddler church group and got on really well with the women so wanted to try going to church on a Sunday after an invite . The 1st 6-9 months I sat there and heard the words but felt nothing .


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

justin case said:


> to know the absolute answer to that you would have to accept gods love....you have chosen to reject god out of your life, but god will follow you untill the day you die, that is how much he loves you....and thats the best answer i can give you.


As Prophecy pointed out, that's not an answer to the question I asked. That's simply your assumption about something the god you believe in may or may not do, which doesn't even begin to address my query. It's an entirely different topic.

The reason I asked that question to you is because I have seen your posts in several threads on religion and think you're best positioned to give an honest, religiously-oriented answer.

Incidentally, you don't know what my view of (any) god is. You only know that I have raised rational objections to the things certain people have said, and that I have stated I would oppose one specific god under certain circumstances. For all you know I could be a Hindu which would hardly make me a god rejecter.



justin case said:


> i remember being taught in school about where rain came from, and it was evaporation and clouds forming......and in another lesson about evolution they tried to say the worlds oceans were formed by rain that lasted millions of years...even at that tender age i could see the stupid contradiction in that.


Yes, rain now mostly begins as evaporated seawater with some also coming from freshwater, sublimation, and transpired or respired sources. But any large mass of gaseous water ejected into an atmosphere that cools down below the condensation threshold is going to precipitate. A school-child's understanding of the present day water cycle doesn't disprove the fairly basic phase transition processes that led to the formation of the oceans. If that's all it took to turn you off from science then I'm genuinely sorry to say you've missed out on a lot! :sad:



DeadpoolX said:


> I was enjoying this debate when it was friendly and just giving information on what we believe in . If my comments are an "offence to everyone"then I'm sorry and for that reason I'm out .


Looking back I probably came on a bit strong, but I didn't mean to accuse you of being offensive. I mean, obviously from what I posted you can see I'm not a fan of what you have said, but this shouldn't be taken to be a criticism of you. I'm sufficiently experienced with people to know that often they don't say what they mean, and that when they do say what they mean it's not necessarily a reflection of the way they are. If you follow me.

I believe I have made the basis for my objections clear in my post and I would like to think that you'd at least try to address them rather than avoiding debate on the things you volunteered publicly in an open discussion. If you don't want to discuss them further because you just don't, fine, but y'know... say that! :beer:



> As for the personal jibes , it's sad that you feel the need to take it this level but I probably earn more in a week than you do in a month , so imagine if I was actually "clever ".


Not sure if you are taking my post as one that contains jibes. I'd expect you probably found it a bit personal but I can assure you none of it was meant to be a jibe. I'm objecting to the position, not the person. You're certainly not the only person to take the view of god that you've presented here and there's no particular reason why you should personally adopt 'responsibility' for it. I'm mainly interested to know how someone like you can adopt a belief structure that's clearly not well morally founded and then present it as being something people should morally aspire to. I mean, you don't seem dishonest and you appear to be mentally normal, so it is a bit confusing.



> Intelligence has nothing to do with it - it's a feeling and a belief .


Very true. Although I'd maybe venture to suggest that applying intelligent critical analysis to our beliefs is a very certain means of establishing how rational they are, even if it does push us outside our comfort zone sometimes.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeadpoolX said:


> 1st time I truly believed in God .


So before then you didn't believe in god?



DeadpoolX said:


> I was there for my wife who had been invited to a mother & toddler church group and got on really well with the women so wanted to try going to church on a Sunday after an invite . The 1st 6-9 months I sat there and heard the words but felt nothing .


Feeling nothing about the whole religious ceremonies is a different thing, I'm trying to nail down when you didn't believe, and when you did.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaff0 said:


> So before then you didn't believe in god?
> 
> Feeling nothing about the whole religious ceremonies is a different thing, I'm trying to nail down when you didn't believe, and when you did.


Nosey aintcha lol


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> It's stood the test of time because it's enigmatic, and has been spouted largely as an unthinking axiom.


I'd totally disagree. It's totally the opposite to enigmatic. The very fact that it brings everything down to just one, single entity means that it can't be anything else. And sure, it's been spouted by the masses when they don't know what it really means, but philosophers themselves know what it means and for hundreds of years *many* have tried to disprove it. The only time they've had any measure of success is with the use of semantics.

Nothing in technology or fiction has even come close to disproving it. An argument claiming that thoughts may be synthetic doesn't disprove it - those thoughts are still there. I still think, therefore I am - even if those thoughts are fabricated or implanted. "Secondary" thought doesn't disprove anything - it just means that the thought travels an extra step.



> Well it's not science based on evidence, it's a philosphical assumption


Because that would create a paradox. You can't use science to prove it's invalidity because science also cannot prove it's validity. It can't be anything other than philisophical assumption because science is irrelevant to it.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Gods all forgiving, so doesn't matter if you believe or not. End.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

There's lots of big words in here tonight.. I had to get my dictionary out:whistling:


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Nothing in technology or fiction has even come close to disproving it. An argument claiming that thoughts may be synthetic doesn't disprove it - those thoughts are still there. I still think, therefore I am - even if those thoughts are fabricated or implanted.


I tend to agree with that bit. The "brain in a vat" conjecture doesn't necessarily affect the proposition "I think therefore I am", because the proposition deals with the existence of I, not its identity. Even if the I in question discovers it is not as it thought a human, but a computer simulation, the proposition still holds true provided it has the facility to be self aware and can generate original thoughts (otherwise it's not thinking and doesn't meet the criteria for "I").


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

some clever ppl on here


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## Dav1 (Sep 25, 2009)

Many of the greatest minds had "beliefs" although not all "religious. There are some gresat books about which the OP could read around the more esoteric philosophical schools (which are the basis of all modern science). The Rosicrucians/Rosi Croix and other "secret societies" still provide some good teachings on these subjects.

One of the greatest books on the subject ever written is available free on the internet written by Manly Hall and titled "the secret teachings of all ages" it is regarded as a philosophical masterpeice and provides some fantastic accounts of how the great greek philosophers/scientists etc... created the great philosophies.

I like this quote from the book

"In this commercial age science is concerned solely with the classification of physical

knowledge and investigation of the temporal and illusionary parts of Nature. Its so-called

practical discoveries bind man but more tightly with the bonds of physical limitation,

Religion, too, has become materialistic: the beauty and dignity of faith is measured by

huge piles of masonry, by tracts of real estate, or by the balance sheet. Philosophy which

connects heaven and earth like a mighty ladder, up the rungs of which the illumined of all

ages have climbed into the living presence of Reality--even philosophy has become a

prosaic and heterogeneous mass of conflicting notions. Its beauty, its dignity, its

transcendency are no more. Like other branches of human thought, it has been made

materialistic--"practical"--and its activities so directionalized that they may also

contribute their part to the erection of this modern world of stone and steel".

Also with regards to an afterlife well, some eminent scientists are now developing theories around this

Look up Professor Stuart Hameroff and microtubules.

Oliver Lodge - one of the greatest scientists of the last 100 years or so provided another very intersting theory which has to this day never been disproven, due to its nature and how it turned "modern" physics on its head he was ostricised by the "establishment" who went on to not try to disprove his theory but to discredit Lodge, poor science that lol. Many great minds shared his views too including possibly the greatest scientist of the 20th century Nikola Tesla.


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

@ Wavelength

It's ok fella it wasn't your comments that bothered me it's ok, but appreciate the response .

It was the long post by Prophet that I quoted where I was called "stupid" for believing in God and lots of other bits that I underlined in the quote a page or 2 back .

Not gonna cry about it tho lol


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

anyone seen this film, i found it very interesting


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> So before then you didn't believe in god?
> 
> Feeling nothing about the whole religious ceremonies is a different thing, I'm trying to nail down when you didn't believe, and when you did.


I can't pin an exact time and date on it I'm afraid .

I know I went to church that day not believing Jesus was my saviour and died for all our sins . I left believing he was .

I couldn't tell you an exact moment when I thought there was "a God " or no God at all .


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## Coop (Sep 8, 2007)

It would be so much easier if one of these Gods popped his/her face through the clouds and showed everyone he/she is real and tell us how we should behave, why he/she has likes to be mysterious, i've no idea.


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## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)

Jaff0 said:


> Is that Penn Jillette?


Yes mate


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## The Course (Nov 14, 2012)

Hey Spike it's me The Course. Good blogging last night dude. Question, if God were gay would you still believe?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Nope, that's what a catholic public school education does to you.

I don't believe in the Easter bunny, Father Christmas or the tooth fairy either, even though there is just as much chance of them existing too.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

DeadpoolX said:


> @ Wavelength
> 
> It's ok fella it wasn't your comments that bothered me it's ok, but appreciate the response .
> 
> It was the long post by Prophet that I quoted where I was called "stupid" for believing in God and lots of other bits that I underlined in the quote a page or 2 back .


I just wondered because you underlined part of mine too, the "morally bankrupt" bit. Calls 'em as I sees 'em!



> Not gonna cry about it tho lol


Good, nobody wants to see that! :tongue:


----------



## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> I'd totally disagree. It's totally the opposite to enigmatic.


I'm sorry - I'm trying to be equitable, and all, but that is just nonsense.

Of course it's enigmatic - it's been used as an enigmatic declaration for centuries.

Have you actually seen the opening to the film The Thirtenth Floor? It actually starts with this very quote, on a black background, attributed to Descartes, before proceeding to debunk the entire concept. I just looked up enigmatic in a dictionary, and it said, "I think, therefore I am" used in the opening of the film The Thirteenth Floor.

I may have made some of that up... all the same, skeptic meet enigmatic.

And seventeenthly, the fact that it's often trotted out, without true thought or full comprehension in discussion, is further evidence that the phrase is enigmatic in it's own right - because people attach greater meaning to it, taken almost on faith as an absolute, without really considering whether it still stands the robust examination that it really should.

Now I'm not about to say that the world of movies can address our philosophical needs, but all the same, go watch The Thirteenth Floor and Blade Runner - then tell me there's no nebulus, there, that would cause even the deepest thinker to not think maybe there's something in the water regarding absolutism and cogito ergo sum.



The Cheese said:


> The very fact that it brings everything down to just one, single entity means that it can't be anything else. And sure, it's been spouted by the masses when they don't know what it really means, but philosophers themselves know what it means and for hundreds of years *many* have tried to disprove it. The only time they've had any measure of success is with the use of semantics.


Philosophers philosophise.

Existential debate and philosophical constructs may only have a limited shelf-life, if evolution and science can address some aspects that at one point were considered absolute.



The Cheese said:


> Nothing in technology or fiction has even come close to disproving it.


I'm sorry, but that's just naive.

Plenty of fiction has sought to make what was once perceived as so fundamental, so absolute, to be more, well, of it's time. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K Dick, then Blade Runner, Simulacron-3 by Daniel Galouye, to then be Welt am Draht, the remade as The Thirteenth Floor are prominent examples - but there's doubtless countless more. Even more basic sci-fi like The Terminator series pulled it as a stunt with "...Skynet became self-aware..."

It's not a question of disproving it, per se - it's about showing that assumptions that were perceived as valid, all those centuries ago, and inferred to imply certain meanings, will always hold true. Back then, there would have been no concept of machines that could eventually evolve to think - not merely programmed to simulate thought - but actually think - make connections. 100 years back there probably would have been no realisation that such could occur, perhaps only in the last few decades has the potential truly been given wings, and become tenable as at least a concept.



The Cheese said:


> An argument claiming that thoughts may be synthetic doesn't disprove it - those thoughts are still there. I still think, therefore I am - even if those thoughts are fabricated or implanted.


Simulated, synthetic thought (ie not merely decisions of a programmer) is not evidence of cogence and proof of existence - at least not in the way Descartes intended.



The Cheese said:


> "Secondary" thought doesn't disprove anything - it just means that the thought travels an extra step.


I'm not talking about "programmed" thought - not merely an image or decisions of somebody creating code or programs to deal with eventualities, I'm talking about spontaneous connections and "thought".

Perhaps people like you, who seem to cling to Descartes proposition - and yes, I'm going to say it, I'm really gonna go there - with religious faith, will then declare that the hardware, code, and environment then become an "I" - but I'm not buying from that funky bakery.



The Cheese said:


> Because that would create a paradox.


Only if you place faith, beyond merit, in the initial proposition.

What's that quote about magic and science... "Any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic."



The Cheese said:


> You can't use science to prove it's invalidity because science also cannot prove it's validity. It can't be anything other than philisophical assumption because science is irrelevant to it.


And that's why you shouldn't base your faith in philsophical assumptions - because over time, some may not be the robust panacea that has been assumed in previous times, because the potential for exceptions was inconceivable in previous times.


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

latblaster said:


> I kind of 'left religion' after having had it shoved down my throat for so long.


So you was an altar boy then? can anyone explain the reason why god made priests find young boys so sexy?


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

lukeee said:


> Nosey aintcha lol


I'm guessing he's a big boy, and it's just words in a forum.

Nobody has to reply or answer if they don't want to. I'm not stood behind with a nickel-plated-nine pressed to his temple.

There's a bit of ambiguity in that last word, ain't there... that's not an accident.


----------



## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

Wavelength said:


> I just wondered because you underlined part of mine too, the "morally bankrupt" bit. Calls 'em as I sees 'em!
> 
> Good, nobody wants to see that! :tongue:


I'll get over that bit , but only cos my guns are bigger than yours :laugh:


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Wavelength said:


> I tend to agree with that bit. The "brain in a vat" conjecture doesn't necessarily affect the proposition "I think therefore I am", because the proposition deals with the existence of I, not its identity. Even if the I in question discovers it is not as it thought a human, but a computer simulation, the proposition still holds true provided it has the facility to be self aware and can generate original thoughts (otherwise it's not thinking and doesn't meet the criteria for "I").


Not buying it.

The brain in a vat thing, still has biological matter - one that represents what many perceive more than simply the sum of it's consituents (noting the difference between "mind" and "brain" - and for those that hold, um, faith in the concept - soul...) that's simply being stimulated or provided with biochemical feedback persuasion of there being something other than "the vat".

It's a (albeit hypothetical) human brain.

The postulation of simluated entities capable of independent thought, reasoning, cogence, and perhaps free will, is quite different - and I'm buying entirely a separate scenario that Descartes intended basis. After all, watch the film The Thirteenth Floor - they put his quote in, in the opening for a poignant - and I'm gonna say it - enigmatic - reason.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

If Derren Brown was about 2000 years ago he could have probably convinced everyone he was some kind of god too.


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Jaff0 said:


> I'm guessing he's a big boy, and it's just words in a forum.
> 
> Nobody has to reply or answer if they don't want to. I'm not stood behind with a nickel-plated-nine pressed to his temple.
> 
> There's a bit of ambiguity in that last word, ain't there... that's not an accident.


----------



## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

The Alpha and the Omega.



Jaff0 said:


> I'm sorry - I'm trying to be equitable, and all, but that is just nonsense.
> 
> Of course it's enigmatic - it's been used as an enigmatic declaration for centuries.


en·ig·mat·ic/?enig?matik/

Adjective:

Difficult to interpret or understand; mysterious.

Synonyms:

mysterious - enigmatical - inscrutable - puzzling



> And that's why you shouldn't base your faith in philsophical assumptions


Faith:

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

2. *Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.*

The *whole* point of Descarte's statement is to provide an easily understandable foundation for everything else. It's the basis for everything. You even stated yourself that it's a starting point. That's hardly enigmatic. It's totally the opposite.

And Faith not being based on philosophical assumptions? It's just about the only thing it can be based on. It's *faith* - a belief. Last time I checked, beliefs were based on philisophical assumptions. It's not a knowledge.

As for the rest of your post? Quite frankly, because of the glaring illogical errors made in the first and last statements, I can't be bothered wasting time rebutting it.


----------



## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

DeadpoolX said:


> I'll get over that bit , but only cos my guns are bigger than yours :laugh:


Well, you know... I keep my superweapon hidden. Modest me.



Jaff0 said:


> Not buying it.
> 
> The brain in a vat thing, still has biological matter - one that represents what many perceive more than simply the sum of it's consituents (noting the difference between "mind" and "brain" - and for those that hold, um, faith in the concept - soul...) that's simply being stimulated or provided with biochemical feedback persuasion of there being something other than "the vat".
> 
> ...


Okay, not sure you are following me. Before replying to The Cheese I didn't realise there was an extensive prior discussion between the two of you, so don't take my comment to be intended as a part of that argument.

I think the name "brain in a vat" is distracting here because it's just a moniker sometimes given to the philosophical problem of how a consciousness goes about establishing its actual identity. The moniker alone doesn't necessitate that the consciousness being considered is contained within a brain.

All I was saying is that identity and existence are separate concepts that shouldn't be conflated in any philosophical argument. I'd be amazed if you disagreed with that, considering your previous posts.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> The Alpha and the Omega.
> 
> en·ig·mat·ic/?enig?matik/
> 
> ...


Absolutely - I'm buying into all that, for "I think, therefore I am". For the average person on the clapham omnibus, it's all those things.

Even for those with a philosophical bent, it certainly has some - if not, it's doing it wrong.



The Cheese said:


> Faith:
> 
> 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
> 
> ...


Well it was the basis for a lot of things - but I'm not buying that is still sustained. It's a debatable concept. I don't buy it's the fundamentals for a religious acceptance. You clearly differ.



The Cheese said:


> And Faith not being based on philosophical assumptions? It's just about the only thing it can be based on. It's *faith* - a belief. Last time I checked, beliefs were based on philisophical assumptions. It's not a knowledge.


Faith is merely belief with no evidence or proof - philosophy is discussion and hypothesising on the meaning of things, life, and everything. Hardly one and the same thing.

I suspect, many philosophers would prefer you not drag faith into it.



The Cheese said:


> As for the rest of your post? Quite frankly, because of the glaring illogical errors made in the first and last statements, I can't be bothered wasting time rebutting it.


That's a weight off, I can tell you.

I was truly concerned, for a nano-second that you may have a worthy counter. The timing was exquisite, and the assumption on the money.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Wavelength said:


> Okay, not sure you are following me. Before replying to The Cheese I didn't realise there was an extensive prior discussion between the two of you, so don't take my comment to be intended as a part of that argument.
> 
> I think the name "brain in a vat" is distracting here because it's just a moniker sometimes given to the philosophical problem of how a consciousness goes about establishing its actual identity. The moniker alone doesn't necessitate that the consciousness being considered is contained within a brain.


Well for the specifics of it - my perception is, it's about misdirection or simulation to something that exists - ie the brain, that what it's being given as input is real, when is merely a simulation. Whether it's contextual, or illustrative, I'm guessing the choice of brain, rather than bunch of electronics and software, was in some way deliberate.



Wavelength said:


> All I was saying is that identity and existence are separate concepts that shouldn't be conflated in any philosophical argument. I'd be amazed if you disagreed with that, considering your previous posts.


Well I am going to disagree, given the context is "I think therefore I am"

Identity and existence were being deliberately conflated by Descartes. That was his point - that being able to think and question his existence, was proof of him.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

@Mightypanda will be gutted he missed all this philosophical religious debate lol

Bit too deep for me but I'm cheering at the sidelines - GO Jesus!!!


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## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Fatstuff said:


> @Mightypanda will be gutted he missed all this philosophical religious debate lol
> 
> Bit too deep for me but I'm cheering at the sidelines - GO Jesus!!!


Dont tell me panda got a job? or a girlfriend?

And dont forget Anthea!

Hold on, they are both missing, they aint dating are they??


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Fatstuff said:


> @Mightypanda will be gutted he missed all this philosophical religious debate lol
> 
> Bit too deep for me but I'm cheering at the sidelines - GO Jesus!!!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Jaff0 said:


> View attachment 100937


Open your heart and u may believe


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

lukeee said:


> Dont tell me panda got a job? or a girlfriend?
> 
> And dont forget Anthea!
> 
> Hold on, they are both missing, they aint dating are they??


Forgot about anthrax


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Absolutely - I'm buying into all that, for "I think, therefore I am". For the average person on the clapham omnibus, it's all those things


WTF has the statement got to do with the "average person"? Descartes wasn't writing for Dear Deirdre in The Sun, he was writing for philosophy. The fact that the "average person" doesn't know what it means is *totally and utterly* irrelevant. It wasn't written to be enigmatic and just because a few people don't understand it doesn't mean that it is. Philisophically, it has a clear meaning. If it didn't, how could anyone attempt to rebutt it? Take that further and how could you argue against it here?

What a ridiculously, illogical argument (yet another one). You've put yourself in an unwinnable position. To claim it's enigmatic means that you'd have to be arguing against it from a position of ignorance - you wouldn't know what it means so how can you dispute it?. Or are you so unique and so smart, you're the only person on the planet who knows what it means?



> Faith is merely belief with no evidence or proof - philosophy is discussion and hypothesising on the meaning of things, life, and everything. Hardly one and the same thing.


I've already given you the definition of Faith. It's not based on science or proof. If it's not based on those "factual" basis, it can only be based on assumption. That assumption is based on "hypothesising on the meaning of things, life and everything". To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

I've given you your nano-second. You don't merit any more.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Jaff0 said:


> Well for the specifics of it - my perception is, it's about misdirection or simulation to something that exists - ie the brain, that what it's being given as input is real, when is merely a simulation. Whether it's contextual, or illustrative, I'm guessing the choice of brain, rather than bunch of electronics and software, was in some way deliberate.


Yes, it was obviously named deliberately. However we now acknowledge that self-awareness is almost certainly an emergent property of a number of biochemical processes which could (at least in theory) be replicated electronically, so there really is no barrier to swapping out the brain for a chip in the conjecture. This is actually pretty consistent with your own comments regarding the erosion of philosophical axioms by the vast knowledge we've accumulated in the past century or so.



> Well I am going to disagree, given the context is "I think therefore I am"
> 
> Identity and existence were being deliberately conflated by Descartes. That was his point - that being able to think and question his existence, was proof of him.


I don't think I chose my words very carefully with "conflate". I just made myself even less clear.

Let me put it this way instead; it's one thing to establish beyond any doubt that one exists. It's another thing altogether to establish what one exists as.


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## DeadpoolX (Aug 28, 2012)

All this religious talk and then End of Days with Arnie comes on E4 .... Spooky !


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

The Cheese said:


> WTF has the statement got to do with the "average person"? Descartes wasn't writing for Dear Deirdre in The Sun, he was writing for philosophy. The fact that the "average person" doesn't know what it means is *totally and utterly* irrelevant.


In all your knee-jerk, reactionary, snap responses to me, you miss context.

I didn't say that Descartes was necessarily aiming for Joe Average. You were wibbling over my labelling of it as enigmatic. THAT'S the context, and precisely that it probably is elusive to many average - and even people like yourself, who no doubt consider themselves above average, is relevant to definition of the term "enigmatic".

But in all your rush to argue with me, you've lost sight of the reason, and make stupid, peurile strawman arguments about what you think I'm trying to assert about Descartes' intention.

I'll give you a D-

Pay attention in class.



The Cheese said:


> Philisophically, it has a clear meaning. If it didn't, how could anyone attempt to rebutt it? Take that further and how could you argue against it here?


Philosophy, clear meaning? You're doing it wrong.

Philosophy exists TO debate and argue it.

Are you thinking this through?

It's not religion, it's not dogma, it's discourse.



The Cheese said:


> I've already given you the definition of Faith. It's not based on science or proof. If it's not based on those "factual" basis, it can only be based on assumption. That assumption is based on "hypothesising on the meaning of things, life and everything". To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.


Faith is all about belief with no proof or evidence.

Philosophy is all about trying to understand to give meaning, not simply to take things as read, as dogma, as axioms that just are. It's about discourse and encouraging thought on trying to understand and make sense.

Sure, some would argue that's some of what religion is trying to address - but faith isn't. Faith is all about a blind leap. Of trust and acceptance because there's no proof or evidence.



The Cheese said:


> I've given you your nano-second. You don't merit any more.


Your problem, is that you think you've got this all worked out. The reality is merely a surface appreciation and no more, then tying yourself up in knots as you have to flip-flop your arguments, simply because you're determined to argue with me at all costs - regardless of whether you're actually making any semblance of sense - which I'm disappointed to say your latest installment doesn't.


----------



## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Wavelength said:


> Yes, it was obviously named deliberately. However we now acknowledge that self-awareness is almost certainly an emergent property of a number of biochemical processes which could (at least in theory) be replicated electronically, so there really is no barrier to swapping out the brain for a chip in the conjecture. This is actually pretty consistent with your own comments regarding the erosion of philosophical axioms by the vast knowledge we've accumulated in the past century or so.


It's not so much knowledge as a change in possibilities since such simple concepts were taken as read.

I believe Descartes was opining from a philosophical basis, that the ability to think, to consider his existence, proved he was "real". I'm extremely doubtful, that a simulated entity that could do such things, would necessarily be what he considered "real" - I don't buy that's what he intended.



Wavelength said:


> I don't think I chose my words very carefully with "conflate". I just made myself even less clear.
> 
> Let me put it this way instead; it's one thing to establish beyond any doubt that one exists. It's another thing altogether to establish what one exists as.


The significance of the proposition, has been used - well for many purposes - but basically, as an assertion about reality, that if nothing else, thought, consideration of existence, proved that the self was real. I don't buy that simulations, existing microscopically and without any of the same sense of cohesion that we perceive as the human brain, is what was intended, in the consideration that such abilities made something "real".


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

oh ladies, put your handbags down!!:laugh:

Its alright to disagree, i can feel the heat building...be nice please.

Am enjoying the conversation, it makes interesting reading(i have had alot of this with my mother who is devout catholic and has taken many course in catholicism, history of religion etc and am very interested in the educated from both camps discussing it, i will reveal my interest at a later date if this stays friendly) I don't want this thread to go the way all the other religious threads have gone as i am actually enjoying the non name calling etc.

I can't offer anything to this thread other than what i said ages ago, i have faith, but not as it was taught to me as the catholic faith teaches. I don't know all the history or philosophical stuffs....i just am what i am and think what i think, but as i said, i am loving the read....please don't get the thread to the point of it being shut down! I know everyone has a belief of their own....and thats a good thing, but please, please keep it nice or it will be closed like all the rest.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Sorry Ser, it's been difficult for me to be nice about anything ever since I was betrayed by Santa.

**** still owes me a Lego train set.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Wavelength said:


> Sorry Ser, it's been difficult for me to be nice about anything ever since I was betrayed by Santa.
> 
> **** still owes me a Lego train set.


He owes me a flesh light (mens ars addition) cuwnt never gave it to me at 15 i got so angry ! :cursing: :laugh:


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> He owes me a flesh light (mens ars addition) cuwnt never gave it to me at 15 i got so angry ! :cursing: :laugh:


Maybe he got confused because Fleshlight is the name of the ones they sell to ladies...?


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

don't you slate santa...or i will find you and take you out!!!! :cursing:

I was brought up catholic, thought my kids, if i ever had them, would be the same.....

Bri is anti-religion, and when our first was born with kidney failure, a tumour and many other problems...he was even MORE anti-religion....and the things we saw whilst at the baby hospital...i do not blame him for one second for those feelings...we agree'd to let our kids CHOOSE their religion when they were old enough to make a choice of their own. My 7 year old daughter CHOOSES to go to chapel with my mother every sunday, she enjoys it and asked to go on her own free will.NOW...

She goes to a non denominational school, we have never pushed any view on her, we went to her p1 harvest festival at the school....now....at a catholic school in the 80's, i was taught that we were all god's children, that we were loved, no matter what...i went to that harvest festival, at a NON denominational school and heard the 'uncle' tell the kids if they didn't praise god they would be damned forever, i was fekkin scared! Nevermind what my wee 4 year old daughter must have thought....so much for non denominational:rolleyes:

I can't help but wonder if the above story is why she is so desperate to attend chapel, i was forced to chapel as a child, it was long and dreary(as any child would view it) It TERRIFIES me that she MIGHT think if she doesn't go that she will be damned......surely, regardless of your viewpoint in this thread and RL....that is wrong?


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## PowerOutput (Oct 3, 2012)

What 'uncle' told the kids Ser? Who is Uncle? Some sort of Minister?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Ser said:


> don't you slate santa...or i will find you and take you out!!!! :cursing:
> 
> I was brought up catholic, thought my kids, if i ever had them, would be the same.....
> 
> ...


Yet another reason to solidify my dislike of religion!!


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Yes, he didn't wear a collar or owt, and had a monkey puppet to add to his weirdness.....i did post about it years back, but even i can't find the thread now...at the time i was fekkin ragin! didn't want to make a big deal to my wee one, but tried to let her know not to worry....regardless of what he said.

It actually caused a bit of an argument between me and Bri as i would have sent them to a catholic school(for no other reason than thats what i had as a kid) and he said it was unfair to impose MY religion on them....and that i didn't practise as a catholic so i was even more out of order...i agree'd...and then heard this. Bri went to a non denominational school and my challenge to him was that he wanted our kids not to be pushed onto a set religion and yet that path seemed to be causing MORE fear than i ever had....

anyways, its another long winded post about how 'people view and practise their religion or supposed lack thereof' just reading i wanted to ask all who posted about their views on the situ as it unfolded....we were BOTH raging, but i felt that given my choices, i should have gone down the catholic school route, cause religion was still imposed on my wee one and there is no other choice between catholic or non denominational in our area....

Also begs the question...how is what we heard that day non denominational?

I got this from the earlier convo about not pressing your views on your children....from my own experience(Lauren never spoke about it before we actually witnessed it) you can't....one way or the other, they are pushed, no matter how hard you try for it not to happen!


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Fatstuff said:


> Yet another reason to solidify my dislike of religion!!


Believe it or not, my main issue is the money that religions have, yet sit and tell us to pray for something they could fix, how those in control sleep at night i will never know!

My second biggest issue is the amount of HATE religion produces...'nuff said on that front, just watch the news if you don't get my point

As for MY religion, if you are hard pushed, you CAN go to the priests house and be given nappies or supplies etc.....doesn't solve anything further than a few days:cursing:

And all the while, so many are starving, dying, suffering....i need to stop starting to reply in these threads.

My ma is close friends with many a priest, dinner parties etc goes to see the pope every year......it infuriates me that she is involved, not in the religion and faith side, but in the hypocratic sense of it all....


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Haven't read all the thread, at 21 pages and rising, screw that lol - but in answer to the title, yes, I'd say I'm religious.

Or spiritual. I'm not sure what the word is.

I don't follow any of the conventional religions as they are interpreted and twisted by man, although the texts themselves are an often fascinating read and a lot can be taken from them. Note, not the bits that people like to twist, manipulate, take out of context and shout about in every template anti-religious rant ever posted on any internet anywhere lol, those people - and I'd bet there are more than a few in the previous 20 pages here - are every bit as ignorant as the extremists they slate...

I believe in something beyond us, but even that doesn't really put it over. I don't necessarily mean life after death, I mean something greater than us, something that threads all of us together in this life...

All the anti religion arguments... "if god exists why does he let bad things happen yada yada" - so childlike in their simplicity

Gravity exists - we don't really know what it is, but its there. It can do good things (keeps our feet on the ground) but it can also do bad things (if we fall) - and IMO, whatever I believe in, is a bit like that. It has no conscience of good or bad, it just is. I don't believe in a creator or a protector or a being that we have any right to hold accountable for the things we aren't happy about, or to demand good things from.

But I do believe in something we can draw from, when times are bad...

Not explaining myself very well and its late, so I should prob try and get some sleep... but ignorant hate of ALL religion is just as ignorant as some forms of religion - heads or tails, you are still ignorant...


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

rs007 said:


> Haven't read all the thread, at 21 pages and rising, screw that lol - but in answer to the title, yes, I'd say I'm religious.
> 
> Or spiritual. I'm not sure what the word is.
> 
> ...


^^that^^ is something similar to what i feel


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## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

I am a practising pervert... unfortunately I've got nobody to practice on


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Ser said:


> Believe it or not, my main issue is the money that religions have, yet sit and tell us to pray for something they could fix, how those in control sleep at night i will never know!
> 
> My second biggest issue is the amount of HATE religion produces...'nuff said on that front, just watch the news if you don't get my point
> 
> ...


Have you ever seen any documentaries about Mother Teresa and the amount of money she received in charity and how she spent it?


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

spudsy said:


> I am a practising pervert... unfortunately I've got nobody to practice on


I am also a practising pervert...i haven't been struck by lightening as yet, so i assume God agree's with my enjoyment and appreciation of his products I got loads to practise on...and i do:laugh:



Fatstuff said:


> Have you ever seen any documentaries about Mother Teresa and the amount of money she received in charity and how she spent it?


Its probably best i don't, cause it just add's to my hate of 'religion' as its presented in the modern world. I like the idea of SOME of its theories, but when you see the greed and hate coming from these preachings...well:whistling:

I genuinely think it COULD be a good thing, but as usual, us humans have twisted and warped it into something that should be stamped out....shame, cause there is a genuine undertone in the things that *should* be....but *should* isn't *is*...and so many followers display this.

If you will, take it away from the news on our tv's....even take it to my own area....football....one side is 'catholic' one side 'protestant' When you talk to someone in a pub they ask you which team you support....and if its different to their side, your chances of being stabbed increase tenfold! Most of these folk don't even follow religion, but as they stab you will shout 'fek you ya proddy/fenian cvnt'.....just brings hate, regardless of its the fact that its perception of those people, where i live its more common than not!

As a Scot, we still hate the English more though:lol: and thats fek all to do with religion....so its not only religion thats ill informed and bad


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Ashcrapper said:


> So you was an altar boy then? can anyone explain the reason why god made priests find young boys so sexy?


And it's mostly Catholic priests that get caught up in the sex scandals as well...disgusting!

But ofc Catholic priests don't marry.


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## Prophecy (Nov 26, 2011)

What do you all think of the new Pope? The people here in Italy can't get enough of him.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Prophecy said:


> What do you all think of the new Pope? The people here in Italy can't get enough of him.


Holy thread resurrection...



(yes, I know, it's probably not the same pope...)

But this guy approves...



This guy called him a cvnt, though...



And this guy told this very convincing story that he should be pope - although there was a rumour he's actually the devil...


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