# Steroids and life expectancy



## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

After watching a C T Fletcher vid about being natty, and his reasons, got me thinking who on here worries or even considered that aas use may well take years off your life?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

binghooper23 said:


> After watching a C T Fletcher vid about being natty, and his reasons, got me thinking who on here worries or even considered that aas use may well take years off your life?


Hell, I am more worried about my alcohol consumption over gear, but it did give me stage II stroke range blood pressure, blood in my urine once too.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

I've certainly considered it, which is why I intend to be very conservative with my usage.

My use of test may add to my cardiovascular risk, but I'm pretty sure that all the exercise, good food & the fact that I don't drink or smoke more than balances it out.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I've certainly considered it, which is why I intend to be very conservative with my usage.
> 
> My use of test may add to my cardiovascular risk, but I'm pretty sure that all the exercise, good food & the fact that I don't drink or smoke more than balances it out.


X2


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Funk it die big, die happy, die young


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Is there even a reason why responsible use of steroids will take years off your life?

I've always thought it was a myth. A lot of people believe that as soon as you take steroids you'll end up dead by the time you're 50.


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## sneeky_dave (Apr 2, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> all the exercise, good food & the fact that I don't drink or smoke more than balances it out.


This is deffinatley a valid point. Providing AAS use is kept within sensible realms i imagine the user would be likely to live longer than the average person that binge drinks/smokes/eats terrible food on the sofa their whole life.

I for one have given it equal thought as i have any substance I considered using.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Lol ct fletcher is not natty.

I think **** and **** diet will kill me off before gear


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Actually the reverse there are studies showing as men we would actually benifit from test use later in life! I'll see if I can find it and post up


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/47078274/ns/health-heart_health/t/testosterone-may-help-some-heart-patients/

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/jun2012_Testosterone-Controversy_01.htm

There's another great one which typically i can't bloody find


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> Lol ct fletcher is not natty.
> 
> I think **** and **** diet will kill me off before gear


CT Fletcher is natty take a listen to the guy! he got that jacked of eating cheeseburgers everyday bro :lol:

:whistling: .....


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/47078274/ns/health-heart_health/t/testosterone-may-help-some-heart-patients/

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/jun2012_Testosterone-Controversy_01.htm

There's another great one which typically i can't bloody find


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

Natty or not, at 55 yrs old he's certainly an inspiration to me and cracks me up, I thought this night start a ct fletcher debate lol

All valid points with the food and lifestyle thing but still, even if yr healthy if there is any truth in it, why take years off yr life?


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## Armz (Mar 20, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/47078274/ns/health-heart_health/t/testosterone-may-help-some-heart-patients/
> 
> http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/jun2012_Testosterone-Controversy_01.htm
> 
> There's another great one which typically i can't bloody find


Thanks for the links. I've had a quick read and it seems the problem isn't testosterone, rather elevated estrogen levels which we all know causes murder for some when not monitored whilst on cycle.


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

Interesting read, I assume all the hype is regarding the abuse of aas


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

Interesting read and I swear I can breath alot better when i'm on gear! well my cycles always include test so I will put it down to that.


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

Life is about moderation and balance...


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

WTF is going on here lately?? Where are all these ''AAS are bad m'kay'' **** threads coming out of?? CT Fletcher...OP you don't know the first thing about him and furthermore if you don't know the first thing about AAS stop doing the Daily Mail on it with the drama drama heading and talk of steroids taking years off your life.


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## Magic Mike (Nov 15, 2013)

There are no medical facts or studies that prove steroid use can shorten your life expectancy, steroid abuse on the other hand I believe could shorten life expectancy dramatically due to many medical ailments.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Magic Mike said:


> There are no medical facts or studies that prove steroid use can shorten your life expectancy, steroid abuse on the other hand I believe could shorten life expectancy dramatically due to many medical ailments.


You believe or have read detailed and comprehensive studies of?


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> You believe or have read detailed and comprehensive studies of?


its common sense that abusing anything will hurt you one way or another!

and I watched a video on youtube the other day and this Dr was saying there are no medical facts that prove steroid use can kill you or shorten your life expectency!

gear is gooooooooooooooood... I always said, use it responsibly and enjoy the benefits of it long term and abuse it you simply get fvcked...


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

I know from personal experience that low test (but not quite low enough, by 0.2, for the NHS to give me Nebido - testosterone Undecanoate) is really not great. Memory gets shot - I had trouble remembering things that normally I would have no trouble. Libido dies, feel lethargic and generally not great. This part of getting older (I'm 47) is really not fun.

So as my very enlightened GP subtly hinted that "as you train I am sure there are guys ....." :lol:

i now use 250mg Test E E2W when not blasting and feel so much better - like my old self. When on cycle never use large amounts (<1g a week - normally 600-800mg) and am bigger, stronger and fitter than I have ever been. Wasn't planning on using gear this time around, whereas I had used it quite a bit in my youth. Ah the joys of old school pharma and veterinary gear, Sustanon, Parabolan, Equipoise, Dianabol all made by the big pharma companies.... But I digress 

Its the abuse of PEDs that causes the majority of the problems, and in all likelihood deaths. Its difficult to pin it exactly on gear use directly for every death, however you get too big, it puts extra strain on all body functions and things start failing. However intelligent use of gear, coupled with first getting training and diet spot on will work wonders and massively reduce the risks, compared to the people that just play a numbers game and try and stuff in as much as possible.


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> WTF is going on here lately?? Where are all these ''AAS are bad m'kay'' **** threads coming out of?? CT Fletcher...OP you don't know the first thing about him and furthermore if you don't know the first thing about AAS stop doing the Daily Mail on it with the drama drama heading and talk of steroids taking years off your life.


Seriously??? Man here we go again, why the hostility?!

I'm not saying aas do take years off yr life!! I'm simply asking who actually worries or considers that there is truth in any of it!

I guess you know all the ins and outs of Fletcher then?

Guess what you know nothing about me so please don't disrespect me saying I don't know S##T in order to get reps or look tough!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

binghooper23 said:


> Seriously??? Man here we go again, why the hostility?!
> 
> I'm not saying aas do take years off yr life!! I'm simply asking who actually worries or considers that there is truth in any of it!
> 
> ...


That's not hostile mate...why all the dramatic reactions to everything? ''AAS takes years off your life''....''why the hostility''...that's a bit much, no?? It's widely believed that CT does use. But no more than C.T.s claims AAS shorten your life...I can't prove it. Not looking to ''get reps or look tough'' either.

Yer a drama queen mate.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

like everything in life theres use/misuse/overuse

like diggyv im prescribed nebido , if you read up on it having low testosterone can actually reduce life span and it causes a hell of a lot of problems.

of course abuse will finish you off sooner its about finding a happy medium and monitoring yourself at least twice a year to note any abnormality's that would indicate you are harming yourself.

*NB - 1.5g test 1g tren 1g mast and dvol/tbol is not a 'happy medium'

ive said this many times here in the past, unless you are competing and your physique makes you money i see no need for high doses of anything.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

teramobil said:


> its common sense that abusing anything will hurt you one way or another!
> 
> and I watched a video on youtube the other day and this Dr was saying there are no medical facts that prove steroid use can kill you or shorten your life expectency!
> 
> gear is gooooooooooooooood... I always said, use it responsibly and enjoy the benefits of it long term and abuse it you simply get fvcked...


Don't agree...in fact, can't agree....there's a lot of boys still hanging around and looking damn good for their age, Sly and Arnie not least, and who knows how many more who are still alive and kicking well.

It would be very fair to say those boys were in the abusing category in their times.


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

aqualung said:


> like everything in life theres use/misuse/overuse
> 
> like diggyv im prescribed nebido , if you read up on it having low testosterone can actually reduce life span and it causes a hell of a lot of problems.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid there is.. the girls with bikini in the summer.... turning heads round when you walk in somewhere.... feeling invincible....


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

aqualung said:


> like everything in life theres use/misuse/overuse
> 
> like diggyv im prescribed nebido , if you read up on it having low testosterone can actually reduce life span and it causes a hell of a lot of problems.
> 
> ...


Agreed 

I know people who have competed at a national (EFBB UK Finals) and international level (NABBA Universe) that don't take the amount highlighted in red above.

If you are taking this much and not gracing the pages of Flex, Beef, M&F or similar - you need to seriously rethink what you are doing.


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Don't agree...in fact, can't agree....there's a lot of boys still hanging around and looking damn good for their age, Sly and Arnie not least, and who knows how many more who are still alive and kicking well.
> 
> It would be very fair to say those boys were in the abusing category in their times.


true.... but if its my luck.. the minute i start abusing it i'll end up in ANE  SO I Rather not to abuse it just in case..... also, remember those guys (Arnie and sly) had some of the most expensive trainers, Doctors etc checking them out all the time to make sure they're ok... but yeah they did abuse the fvck out of the AAS and GH.. i think sly still does it.....


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> That's not hostile mate...why all the dramatic reactions to everything? ''AAS takes years off your life''....''why the hostility''...that's a bit much, no?? It's widely believed that CT does use. But no more than C.T.s claims AAS shorten your life...I can't prove it. Not looking to ''get reps or look tough'' either.
> 
> Yer a drama queen mate.[/
> 
> ...


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

binghooper23 said:


> After watching a C T Fletcher vid about being natty, and his reasons, got me thinking who on here worries or even considered that aas use may well take years off your life?


Taking advice off CT Fletcher the advantages of being natty is like taking sobriety advice off Keith Richards.

Drug abuse and overreaching the bodies healthy capacity (weight, exertion, lack of rest, sleep etc) will **** you up. Period. That isn't just for to steroids. Thats anything.

Simple, don't abuse drugs. Listen to doctors advice and warming reading. Be smart, recover when required. Live long and healthy


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

teramobil said:


> true.... but if its my luck.. the minute i start abusing it i'll end up in ANE  SO I Rather not to abuse it just in case..... also, remember those guys (Arnie and sly) had some of the most expensive trainers, Doctors etc checking them out all the time to make sure they're ok... but yeah they did abuse the fvck out of the AAS and GH.. i think sly still does it.....


I think it's fair to say Sly's still using, he did get caught importing AAS into Australia there awhile back. Also, the dude looks ready to walk onstage. Yes, they have doctors checking them out..but anything they get done can be done in U.K too you know...just because you/anyone ran a few cycles or happen to be on T.R.T. doesn't mean you need to pay a doctor to be onhand 24/7.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

binghooper23 said:


> Dude...we're on the internet. On a forum. Seriously...you think I'm being hostile...on a forum?? How...?
> 
> It's not like I can jump through the screen, out your side, and slap you over the head with the keyboard now is it?
> 
> Seriously....take the likes of C.T. Fletcher and 99% of the American guys with a light sprinkle of salt. The drama starts with them.


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Taking advice off CT Fletcher the advantages of being natty is like taking sobriety advice off Keith Richards.
> 
> Drug abuse and overreaching the bodies healthy capacity (weight, exertion, lack of rest, sleep etc) will **** you up. Period. That isn't just for to steroids. Thats anything.
> 
> Simple, don't abuse drugs. Listen to doctors advice and warming reading. Be smart, recover when required. Live long and healthy


Really good point, the vid I watched was actually some Russian dude talking about CT being called out on aas use, not CT himself giving natty advise, though yes there are vids of him saying he is natty, maybe I could have worded my original post better to avoid getting slammed lol


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> I think it's fair to say Sly's still using, he did get caught importing AAS into Australia there awhile back. Also, the dude looks ready to walk onstage. Yes, they have doctors checking them out..but anything they get done can be done in U.K too you know...just because you/anyone ran a few cycles or happen to be on T.R.T. doesn't mean you need to pay a doctor to be onhand 24/7.


ofcourse anything they get done you can get it done over here too but they never paid for it.. a blood test costs me £50!!!! lol


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Ok I apologise maybe the word hostile is incorrect, but you did rile me slightly stating I know f all about ct fletcher or in fact aas use itself.
> 
> Firstly I'm not sure what you are referring to by my over reacting to everything? Maybe I over reacted to your comments yes. My original post doesn't say I agree or disagree with any statement about aas and life expectancy, or that I believe nor disbelieve that fletcher is all natural.
> 
> Anyway I'm not here to get into an argument so I apologise if you think I over reacted.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

binghooper23 said:


> No worries dude, no need for apology..you didn't say anything offensive and I don't carry grudges.


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## SkinnyJ (Apr 21, 2012)

CT fletcher natty :lol:


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

teramobil said:


> ofcourse anything they get done you can get it done over here too but they never paid for it.. a blood test costs me £50!!!! lol


Well..I'm pretty sure they paid for it but anyway...you don't need to get blood tests done every week like, and, I think it's the kind of thing that is worthwhile...at least up until you have a good operating idea of how yer body's reacting to or handling AAS use. If it doesn't react well...stop or take appropriate precautions. If you're happy, are reacting well and can afford it every whatever interval, then crack on. Granted it might only be the difference in gaining 5 extra years in your life, but time is a precious commodity.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

I personally believe that a sensible cruise dose of steroids could probably increase your life expectancy by quite a bit. More lean body mass, less body fat and an improved sense of wellbeing which would reduce stress.

This doesn't mean supernatural levels. It just means keeping your test serum levels in the healthy upper range to combat them diminishing due to age.

However, if anyone did go down that route I don't think they'd have to touch it until their late 40's or early 50's, or maybe even later still.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

teramobil said:


> I'm afraid there is.. the girls with bikini in the summer.... turning heads round when you walk in somewhere.... feeling invincible....


ha, yes i can see the attraction of having a good physique for the ladies, however you can get one without massive doses of AAS , as for 'feeling invincible' if its not happened already you will soon find out when you bump into the wrong person that this is just the testosterone talking and infact you are not invincible  , it also may be a moot point having a good physique when you open your mouth and have your front teeth missing like a hillbilly (which happened when you found out you are not invincible)


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

aqualung said:


> ha, yes i can see the attraction of having a good physique for the ladies, however you can get one without massive doses of AAS , as for 'feeling invincible' if its not happened already you will soon find out when you bump into the wrong person that this is just the testosterone talking and infact you are not invincible  , it also may be a moot point having a good physique when you open your mouth and have your front teeth missing like a hillbilly (which happened when you found out you are not invincible)


hahha.. that is true actually and it did happen to me once.. no one smashed my teeth in but I came home with a black eye lol and the funny thing was the guy was around 50 years old :lol: i shook his hand afterwards for being such a strong older guy....

I just love the sense of well being to be honest.... also, when you are big when you get into a row with someone they will think twice which is a bonus.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

yup the sense of well being from higher than usual test doses is where people get confused with physical and psychological dependence and think they dont have a problem - until they come back down to baseline and think something is wrong with them.


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## Kevin Smith (May 2, 2013)

A roid abuser CT Fletcher giving advice about not taking steroids... how ironic. Seriously, if these guys aren't going to admit use they should just ignore the subject. I remember back in the 90s I bought this Lee Haney training video, he appeared all jacked up and huge and the first thing he said before the training video started was this little speech about not using steroids. Give me a break. I don't expect them to give me a detail of their bloody cycle, but common.


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

Got to be honest... If it takes years of your life... what are we going for? instead of living 90 living 80?.... I mean I don't drink, I don't eat junk, I don't smoke... I use AAS, ok yeah but not going crazy on them.

I think you got to enjoy life now that you can, you cannot enjoy life at it's most when you 75+ can you now? What I mean is that you won't die young.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

I think of PE use/abuse along the same lines of alcohol use/abuse.

Sensible usage should be fine, heavy usage is dangerous & extremely heavy abuse is just asking for trouble.

But then just like you get guys like Arnold who seem fine from many years of AAS use, you get guys like John Hurt & Tom Baker who have been p155heads for decades & are still knocking around.


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

Why say look at arnie he is fine when he is only alive because of multiple triple heart bypasses, He got looked after and is very lucky.

His old training partner (cant remember name) completely regrets taking steroids, he had heart problems and multiple strokes etc and puts it all down to steroids

Many pay for the use of steroids and regret it. However i think alot more is involved than just plain steroids use in moderation.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Lets face it. Force feeding yourself, intense training and AAS use isn't a healthy lifestyle.


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> Why say look at arnie he is fine when he is only alive because of multiple triple heart bypasses, He got looked after and is very lucky.
> 
> His old training partner (cant remember name) completely regrets taking steroids, he had heart problems and multiple strokes etc and puts it all down to steroids
> 
> Many pay for the use of steroids and regret it. However i think alot more is involved than just plain steroids use in moderation.


well no one said Arnie used steroids sensibly! in fact we said he abused AAS and if he had a problem then he should put it down to absuing the stuff and not using it.

and that is the whhole point of this thread.... abusing AAS is different than using the stuff in a sensible manner and researching the stuff...


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

teramobil said:


> well no one said Arnie used steroids sensibly! in fact we said he abused AAS and if he had a problem them he should put it down to absuing the stuff and not using it.
> 
> and that is the whhole pint of this threade.... abusing AAS is different than using the stuff in a sensible manner and researching the stuff...


How do you know he abused it though? I remember watchong a doc on it with him in it and he said he would only use 3 dbol a day, this is 30mg a day. Doctors would dish out the injections. This was him speaking after his bodybuilding days.

I see people on here claiming they do 80-100mg dbol a day.

I dont think he abused it as much as people seem to think.


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## Deadcalm (Aug 9, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> How do you know he abused it though? I remember watchong a doc on it with him in it and he said he would only use 3 dbol a day, this is 30mg a day. Doctors would dish out the injections. This was him speaking after his bodybuilding days.
> 
> I see people on here claiming they do 80-100mg dbol a day.
> 
> I dont think he abused it as much as people seem to think.


Dianabol is liver toxic. That's why you should only take it for 4-6 weeks at the most. Even a lower dose of Dianabol over a much longer period would cause gradual liver problems.

Plus, it isn't all about his liver. The size of the guy quite clearly indicates that he would have been taking in a lot of gear to take him past his genetic limit. Over many decades this can put a serious strain on your heart. Human beings simply aren't designed to support that much mass.


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> How do you know he abused it though? I remember watchong a doc on it with him in it and he said he would only use 3 dbol a day, this is 30mg a day. Doctors would dish out the injections. This was him speaking after his bodybuilding days.
> 
> I see people on here claiming they do 80-100mg dbol a day.
> 
> I dont think he abused it as much as people seem to think.


mate, you just have to look at his size and you'd know how much AAS he used!


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

You didnt read my post properly. You jumped in and went off.

My first post was simply saying there is no point in saying gear is safe, look at arnie he is fine. I simply said he hasnt been fine he hs had multiple triple heart bypasses.


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> You didnt read my post properly. You jumped in and went off.
> 
> My first post was simply saying there is no point in saying gear is safe, look at arnie he is fine. *I simply said he hasnt been fine he hs had multiple triple heart bypasses.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> well exactly, he's abused the stuff! you said he hasn't because he said he only took 3 dbol per week which is absolutely a nonesense according to the guy's size and shape. and I did read and understood you first time!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think it needs to be said that some UGL gear has heavy metals in them, as probably from cheap raws from China.

Testosterone rises, and falls during the day, depending on the time, it is not stable all the time, they body is very smart at balancing hormones, much better than we ever could do.

Are they safe?

Depends.

Do they prolong life?

Yah, of hormones are out of whack

Do the cut life shorter?

Sure, if used for a long time, and abused for sure.

I have seen so much stuff with complications of steroid use, they aint vitamins.


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## k3z (Oct 17, 2007)

Always did doubt how dangerous peds were when you look at the likes of arnie, stallone, ric draiper, columbo etc. all appear healthy and well, and when you look at lou ferrignou hes in amazing shape.

these are the guys who never knew what a PCT was at the time...


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

teramobil said:


> There you go again. blowing it all up.
> 
> I didnt say he hasnt abused the stuff i said how do you know he has! I didnt say he only uses 3 dbol a week i said he used 3 dbol a day! obviously with injectable.
> 
> ...


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

hackskii said:


> I think it needs to be said that some UGL gear has heavy metals in them, as probably from cheap raws from China.
> 
> Testosterone rises, and falls during the day, depending on the time, it is not stable all the time, they body is very smart at balancing hormones, much better than we ever could do.
> 
> ...


Are they safe?

Depends. on what?

Do they prolong life?

Yah, of hormones are out of whack How do you prevent hormones being out of whack?

Do the cut life shorter?

Sure, if used for a long time, and abused for sure. what do you call long term and what do you call abuse?


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> Never mind fella.. can't be @rsed to argue


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Test is good for you, with an actual study linked 

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ok, hate typing on this iMac but here goes.

Orals can be harsh on the liver, we all know this, same can be said for the pancreas.

Kidney failure from high blood pressure is the second leading cause.

Steroids can and will for some put you at stage II stroke range, I know it did that to me, plus blood in the urine.

So, probably have done some damage to my kidneys some, and that does not repair.

Saying hell, I don't drink, I don't smoke, gear is cool with me is like saying:

I have so much string to burn, I will burn that to an acceptable amount.

Wrong, you get one stab at life, saying die big or go home, is very weak.

They can and do raise red blood cell count, and blood volume, that aint good.

I have seen lipid profiles that one one occasion the doc said the dude had the cardiovascular system of a 70 year old man, but look contest ready.

Depends on time you are on, gears used, orals, how much, etc.

Ever seen a guy on tren, huffing and puffing?

Tren is known for some to cause difficulty in breathing, and insomnia, gee, sounds great to me, killing your cardio has to be a good thing right?

Look, I am all about choices, steroids are not conducive of good health, they have their place in burn victims, TRT, etc, I am all for that, but playing with matches around gasoline, can be done, but does have its share of consequences.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Dark sim said:


> Test is good for you, with an actual study linked
> 
> http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172


Hemoglobin levels changed significantly in relation to testosterone dose and concentration. Testosterone regulates erythropoiesis through its effects on erythropoietin and stem cell proliferation (14,35, 40). Although modest increments in hemoglobin might be beneficial in androgen-deficient men with chronic illness who are anemic, marked increases in hemoglobin levels could increase the risk of cerebrovascular events (25) and hypertension (42).

Yah, good for you:lol:


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Ok, hate typing on this iMac but here goes.
> 
> Orals can be harsh on the liver, we all know this, same can be said for the pancreas.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate, appreciate it..... I know you don't like typing on your mac but I'm gonna ask you another question and I would appreciate it if you could answer this one too!

I understand that AAS use especially the orals could damage your liver, kidnies, pancreas and could create all sorts of problems for you in a long run.

but,

1- can we do anything in order to prevent all these issues? i.e. using the stuff sensibly and not abusing them?

2- do you think people who use injectables are in less risks than people who use orals?

3- what can one do in order to prevent heart and liver and kiney issues if they are a long term AAS user?


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Hemoglobin levels changed significantly in relation to testosterone dose and concentration. Testosterone regulates erythropoiesis through its effects on erythropoietin and stem cell proliferation (14,35, 40). Although modest increments in hemoglobin might be beneficial in androgen-deficient men with chronic illness who are anemic, marked increases in hemoglobin levels could increase the risk of cerebrovascular events (25) and hypertension (42).
> 
> Yah, good for you:lol:


I like this new member....doesn't hold sh!t back


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

teramobil said:


> Thanks mate, appreciate it..... I know you don't like typing on your mac but I'm gonna ask you another question and I would appreciate it if you could answer this one too!
> 
> I understand that AAS use especially the orals could damage your liver, kidnies, pancreas and could create all sorts of problems for you in a long run.
> 
> ...


*
*

all that can be sorted with 1 answer..which is....

....get a full blood panel done a few times a year to check everything is ok , if its not you can stop it early.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

teramobil said:


> Thanks mate, appreciate it..... I know you don't like typing on your mac but I'm gonna ask you another question and I would appreciate it if you could answer this one too!
> 
> I understand that AAS use especially the orals could damage your liver, kidnies, pancreas and could create all sorts of problems for you in a long run.
> 
> ...


Well, this question would be better answered if one had a goal to be bigger than he could be naturally.

You can only hold as much muscle as your hormones, diet, and training will allow.

If you want to be bigger, than you have to tweak the hormones.

Depending on how one tweaks said hormones, that would be the measuring stick for safe, and not.

Can you minimize the damage?

Red blood cell, and blood volume?

Give blood.

High blood pressure?

Take meds to bring that into normal range.

Liver?

Stay away from orals, and use compounds within a dose that won't create problems, and shots, won't perse due the liver in, but lipid profiles, yah, nova can help lipid profiles but not the direction I would go.

the prostate has the same developmental tissues as the uterus and nova is a known cancer causer.

And in the end all the stuff taken to minimize the issues, all of them cause side effects.

Again, you want to be bigger than your normal self?

You will have to manipulate your hormones.

Even that, bigger is harder on the heart, and that is a long distance muscle, not one for power.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Hemoglobin levels changed significantly in relation to testosterone dose and concentration. Testosterone regulates erythropoiesis through its effects on erythropoietin and stem cell proliferation (14,35, 40). Although modest increments in hemoglobin might be beneficial in androgen-deficient men with chronic illness who are anemic, marked increases in hemoglobin levels could increase the risk of cerebrovascular events (25) and hypertension (42).
> 
> Yah, good for you:lol:


Fcuk it lol, posted the wrong study 

Think it was posted by biglbs or pscarb, I'll try to find it.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Dark sim said:


> Fcuk it lol, posted the wrong study
> 
> Think it was posted by biglbs or pscarb, I'll try to find it.


Its all good.

Just basic common sense will tell you abusing steroids is not good for health.

But, sadly those that do abuse will be the first to defend.

I don't have a problem with that, but defending said decision using emotion without logic, is pointless.


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## NoobWithBoobs (May 3, 2013)

Would you say doing one oral cycle such as a cycle of SD would be safe?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

NoobWithBoobs said:


> Would you say doing one oral cycle such as a cycle of SD would be safe?


If you want a more informative response you are better off setting up your own thread. Include some other details, proposed cycle, dose, diet, training, weight, bf%.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

NoobWithBoobs said:


> Would you say doing one oral cycle such as a cycle of SD would be safe?


I don't like any cycle that does not involve some testosterone in it.

Remember that one won't convert to estrogen, and when natty levels fall, you will be low in E, and T, yet high in SD, and rebound gyno is common with that one, plus pretty suppressive.


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## Noxrock (Jan 10, 2013)

This a very interesting read and an important topic I feel should be looked at a little bit more. Both sides have good opinions and points, makes one wonder just how safe aas use is. @hackskii would you say one would keep them self healthy with proper blood work and using moderate compounds at moderate doses one or two times per year? Or if your goals were not too far out of reach would maybe peptides be the better bet for someones health? I guess its hard to judge and too many factors involved to really figure out to what degree the use of aas could or could not jepordise your health


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## benki11 (Sep 17, 2010)

hackskii said:


> Ok, hate typing on this iMac but here goes.
> 
> Orals can be harsh on the liver, we all know this, same can be said for the pancreas.
> 
> ...


WooW slow down mate!

You scared the hell outta me :surrender:


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## Akita (May 28, 2013)

This is something that I've often wondered. But as others have said, and as with any drug, abuse and misuse will dramatically increase risk.

Put it this way, Greg Kovacs died the other day aged 44 (i think). MASSIVE bodybuilder from the 90's. I believe he actually exceeded the 400lb mark when bulking!! I also believe he was my height (6'2").

According to medical professionals, my weight (188 lbs) is bang on the money for my height. Perfectly healthy height to weight ratio (debatable by a lot of people but in the medical world i'm at an ideal weight).

If i whack an extra 200+ lbs on my frame... how do you think my health is going to be affected? My heart is going to suffer big time! Doesn't matter if it's fat or muscle. It's probably even worse being muscle when you think of the blood vessels and blood volume within muscle compared to fat.

So yeah, in my opinion, AAS would more than likely shorten your life span if abused to a point you reach an unhealthy weight.

I'm not a doctor lol... but it just makes sense.


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## bumont (Aug 18, 2012)

binghooper23 said:


> After watching a C T Fletcher vid about being natty, and his reasons, got me thinking who on here worries or even considered that aas use may well take years off your life?


CT fletcher natty? lol.

Being hit by a bus, or killed by a drunk driver will most certainly affect your life expectancy, does that stop you from walking or driving?

If you choose to do risky things like drive, cycle, drink, smoke etc then there's always a chance you'll become a statistic.

Best thing to do is manage the risks by not staying on high doses too long, keeping BP low, watching blood lipids.

Alcohol claims a huge amount of lives per year PLUS then ones that may not have been statistically linked to alcohol consumption. There have been very few reported deaths from steroids, but there are people who've died from the effects of them they just don't get counted in statistics.

You could live your life in safety, never do anything with any risk. Don't drive, eat only greens, light cardio and sit safely at home and then get killed by a drink driver while putting the bins out.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I am clearly missing the connection from alcohol and steroids.

Another problem with it all is many guys will use T3, T4, GH, clem, DNP, diuretics, peptides, slin, synthol, over the counter crap, and a whole bunch of anything that may deem necessary for getting one extra bit of fat off, or muscle on.

Again, this is UGL stuff for the most part, and again it is worth repeating heavy metals have been found in them.

I am not on some anti-steroid campaign here, nothing of the sort, just offering balance on a subject that seems out of balance.


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## bigD29 (Jun 30, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I am clearly missing the connection from alcohol and steroids.
> 
> Another problem with it all is many guys will use T3, T4, GH, clem, DNP, diuretics, peptides, slin, synthol, over the counter crap, and a whole bunch of anything that may deem necessary for getting one extra bit of fat off, or muscle on.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by this mate, can you explain ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

bigD29 said:


> What do you mean by this mate, can you explain ?


That dude that writes the steroid handbook books grabbed a bunch of labs, tested then for dosing amounts (mg per ml), and heavy metals.

Seems many UGL labs buy cheap raws from China and many of them contained heavy metals.

Those are not supposed to be in there, over time that could lead to problems.

I would have to go back and look what metals there are but some are not good and at that level not good at all.


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

hackskii said:


> That dude that writes the steroid handbook books grabbed a bunch of labs, tested then for dosing amounts (mg per ml), and heavy metals.
> 
> Seems many UGL labs buy cheap raws from China and many of them contained heavy metals.
> 
> ...


Perhaps better to stick with pharma gear


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

bumont said:


> CT fletcher natty? lol.
> 
> Lol you sat that like I'm saying he is natural, I'm just saying there are videos floating around of him denying ever taking gear, and I do see your view and I'm not at all agreeing with any view that steroid use will shorten yr life, but it's lifestyle choice at the end of the day, being killed by a drink driver for instance, you have no real control over that, really good to hear all the views on this subject
> 
> ...


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

Sorry don't know wtf happened to that post lol


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

John Andrew said:


> I was given 3 months to live 34 years ago due to alcohol abuse. I refuse to worry about dying early due to being strong! I expect to be shot by a jealous husband when I am 110 years old! Worry about something serious! Life is to good to keep worrying! Regards John


Huge respect to you john


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## Noxrock (Jan 10, 2013)

hackskii said:


> I am clearly missing the connection from alcohol and steroids.
> 
> Another problem with it all is many guys will use T3, T4, GH, clem, DNP, diuretics, peptides, slin, synthol, over the counter crap, and a whole bunch of anything that may deem necessary for getting one extra bit of fat off, or muscle on.
> 
> ...


Would like to hear you point of view on aas and alcohol consumption hackskii. Earlier you said you would be more concered about the alcohol killing you before aas. Do you drink whist on a cycle, or do you not cycle any longer and just enjoy some beverages?


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

@hackskii

The link to alcohol and AAS as a comparison is because a lot of people in the UK drink to excess each week, so there health is being used as a benchmark to compare damage against AAS


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hoping it doesn't shave too much off your life tbh


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh man, not against alcohol, not against steroids.

If you want to drink then drink.

If you want to take steroids then do so.

If you want to do both, moderation, and drop the orals.

not against either one.

But to compare, is a joke.

One puts you in another place, the other puts you in a place you can't get naturally.

If you are using a comparison, it is no comparison.

To use it as such, is random to me.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

Leeds89 said:


> Hoping it doesn't shave too much off your life tbh


X2 but f it even if does 10years then it was worth it


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

reza85 said:


> X2 but f it even if does 10years then it was worth it


Agreed, I'd sacrifice 10 years of old age to have a more enjoyable youth.


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## binghooper23 (Dec 18, 2010)

Depends the age we get to really, I mean take ten years off when yr 50!? Not worth it IMO, ten years at 90 then yes I'd agree, but I want to be around for my kids and grandkids for as long as possible.


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## Dudeofdoom (Sep 3, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> Agreed, I'd sacrifice 10 years of old age to have a more enjoyable youth.


Yer saying that now but when the time comes you'll be clawing onto life like the rest of us Oldsters


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I mentally do not feel any older than my youth, but my body does tell me.

I have worked my whole life to retire within 2 years and not have to ever work again, and probably not worry about money.

I want to do the things I never had the time to do.

There is more to life than youth, trust me, the crap I thought about as a youth, I do not think about now, and visa versa.

I am far happier than i ever have been in my life.

Having the best body is not happiness, trust me, that goes to crap later on unless you finely tune that frequently.

Down the road, it may not even be important.

Hot chicks that are young, are destined to be unable to defy gravity, and many won't be so hot after having a family, and stress over time.

I see life as a journey, and if you take the time to enjoy, it really makes no difference if you have the best body.

I see the body as the cup, it is on the inside of the cup that holds its value, not the outside, much like happiness is on the inside, not the outside.

If you think having a good body is happiness, then jog on, you are only deceiving yourself.


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

Kali muscle claims natural too


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

How long before these heavy metals cause a problem?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

sprayer said:


> How long before these heavy metals cause a problem?


Well, it is suggested that 21% of UGL labs tested had toxic heavy metals.Results revealed that 64% of the UGL steroids did not meet label claims either underdosed or overdosed by greater than 20%. Most were slightly underdosed, one contained no active ingredients, and a few were significantly overdose (by as much as 459%)!

Lead was on of the heavy metals found, and pretty much that is a no no at any level.


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Well, it is suggested that 21% of UGL labs tested had toxic heavy metals.Results revealed that 64% of the UGL steroids did not meet label claims either underdosed or overdosed by greater than 20%. Most were slightly underdosed, one contained no active ingredients, and a few were significantly overdose (by as much as 459%)!
> 
> Lead was on of the heavy metals found, and pretty much that is a no no at any level.


Well that is just fantastic. So there is a good chance that these UGL's are laced with lead. These results are they published which ugl faired best and the worst?

Any tell tell sign you can tell gear has lead? Adverse reaction?

Well after your post just there, think my cycling days are over just not worth it in the long run.

Your couple posts back really nailed home the reality.

Will lead get passed out of system?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

sprayer said:


> Well that is just fantastic. So there is a good chance that these UGL's are laced with lead. These results are they published which ugl faired best and the worst?
> 
> Any tell tell sign you can tell gear has lead? Adverse reaction?
> 
> ...


I think chelation therapy or something.

Hey, my intentions were not to cause fear here.

I am just putting things into perspective when guys say I don't drink, or smoke, but I use gear and have a healthy lifestyle.

OK, but my beer does not have heavy metals in them either...lol

Only heavy metal I like might be some metallica once in a while:lol:

I mean hell, the raws come out of China and who knows what the hell is actually in that, some baby formula came from them here and the protein they used was something like a protein source and babies were getting I think it was kidney failure.

Pharma would be a good one though.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

I just don`t give a fukc really iknow i am gonna die one day but atleast i am going to die on my terms & lived my life how I HAVE WANTED. If i am gonna die at the very least they are going to bury me in a fuwking piano box !


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

sprayer said:


> Well that is just fantastic. So there is a good chance that these UGL's are laced with lead. These results are they published which ugl faired best and the worst?
> 
> Any tell tell sign you can tell gear has lead? Adverse reaction?
> 
> ...


Get Superman to Xray you if he cant see through you then you know


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

infernal0988 said:


> I just don`t give a fukc really iknow i am gonna die one day but atleast i am going to die on my terms & lived my life how I HAVE WANTED. If i am gonna die at the very least they are going to bury me in a fuwking piano box !


Careful of what you wish for brother.


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

Gotta die of something.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Careful of what you wish for brother.


Yeah thanks bro but really i`v never really given a rats ass about my own life not that i am suicidal or anything , but really i have never cared that much for my own life or personal safety kinda weird maybe ? But its like hell its my turn to die its my turn you know ?


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## sprayer (Nov 8, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Yeah thanks bro but really i`v never really given a rats ass about my own life not that i am suicidal or anything , but really i have never cared that much for my own life or personal safety kinda weird maybe ? But its like hell its my turn to die its my turn you know ?


Things might change if you have kids. Because you certainly don't have any at the moment from the way you are talking.

This reminds me. Knew of someone who had diabeties and just kept on drinking eating **** thinking the same and talking tough. When they had to cut of his leg he cried like a little girl.

Things change and you start to see things differently.

It is not just about your life, it is everyone around you. Parents would be wrapped if you drop dead tomorrow? I think they would take it tough.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

1manarmy said:


> Gotta die of something.


I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa did, not terrified and screaming like the other passengers in his car.



infernal0988 said:


> Yeah thanks bro but really i`v never really given a rats ass about my own life not that i am suicidal or anything , but really i have never cared that much for my own life or personal safety kinda weird maybe ? But its like hell its my turn to die its my turn you know ?


This disturbs me.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

sprayer said:


> Things might change if you have kids. Because you certainly don't have any at the moment from the way you are talking.
> 
> This reminds me. Knew of someone who had diabeties and just kept on drinking eating **** thinking the same and talking tough. When they had to cut of his leg he cried like a little girl.
> 
> ...


Not seen my mother in 5 years ? My dad since i was 14 years old ? They wouldnt care but thats beyond the point , its just i have never felt a Overwhelming feeling or desire to protect myself ? Idk never felt it really ?


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## polishmate (Aug 15, 2013)

ironman1985bcn said:


> Got to be honest... If it takes years of your life... what are we going for? instead of living 90 living 80?.... I mean *I don't drink, I don't eat junk, I don't smoke*... I use AAS, ok yeah but not going crazy on them.
> 
> I think you got to enjoy life now that you can, you cannot enjoy life at it's most when you 75+ can you now? What I mean is that you won't die young.


everything you listed makes life enjoyable for me lol


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Having kids will make you seriously question what you do imo.

Blood pressure is one thing I really try to monitor and control.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> Having kids will make you seriously question what you do imo.
> 
> Blood pressure is one thing I really try to monitor and control.


So if you have a normal blood pressure is that an indicator that things are ok ?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

reza85 said:


> So if you have a normal blood pressure is that an indicator that things are ok ?


No


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

reza85 said:


> So if you have a normal blood pressure is that an indicator that things are ok ?


as haks said... no mate

Bp is just one of the easiest things to monitor and control but its also one of the easiest things effect in a neg way eg slight increase in bw can effect bp quite a bit.

Its know as the silent killer because you can have high bp for yrs and not even know as minimal signs.

Bp can have a neg effect on heart (heart attack and stroke) and kidneys etc.

kidney infection and failure are very common in bbing.

so its a good idea to keep it under control.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> as haks said... no mate
> 
> Bp is just one of the easiest things to monitor and control but its also one of the easiest things effect in a neg way eg slight increase in bw can effect bp quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Better to keep a eye on it then not imo & i am sure some annual blood tests are involved yearly too ?


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm due a blood test but I'm gone weight 6 weeks or so


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> Better to keep a eye on it then not imo & i am sure some annual blood tests are involved yearly too ?


Bloods usually at some point after a show... once every thing has settled down.

also if i have been pushing it hard I'll have em done.

had 3 lots done this yr all good.

also had a few scans and heart xrays etc.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> Bloods usually at some point after a show... once every thing has settled down.
> 
> also if i have been pushing it hard I'll have em done.
> 
> ...


Good to monitor it all can never be to safe.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> Yeah thanks bro but really i`v never really given a rats ass about my own life not that i am suicidal or anything , but really i have never cared that much for my own life or personal safety kinda weird maybe ? But its like hell its my turn to die its my turn you know ?


lol

its not about if your dead or not its about living with poor health and feeling **** for yrs before you go...

imagine having a stroke now and living like a vegetable for the next 30yrs or more...


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> lol
> 
> its not about if your dead or not its about living with poor health and feeling **** for yrs before you go...
> 
> imagine having a stroke now and living like a vegetable for the next 30yrs or more...


guess i see your point but idk just not something i think about ?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> guess i see your point but idk just not something i think about ?


start mate...

Would really regret it once its too late but by then you just gotta live with it...

I really changed my out look once I had my son... Id hate to leave him with out a dad or with a useless maybe even hindrance of farther...

plus I wanna see him grow etc


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> start mate...
> 
> Would really regret it once its too late but by then you just gotta live with it...
> 
> ...


Yeah but thing is how ? How do i start caring ? I mean i literally dont know how


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> Yeah but thing is how ? How do i start caring ? I mean i literally dont know how


well dnt care then that's fine you dnt have to care to keep an eye on it just make it routine... weekly bp monitoring and 6monthly bloods done.

as for the rest of life I dnt know... lol


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

Just read these last few posts and made an order of a blood pressure monitor. Got one for a silly price so hope it works ok

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350585968611?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> well dnt care then that's fine you dnt have to care to keep an eye on it just make it routine... weekly bp monitoring and 6monthly bloods done.
> 
> as for the rest of life I dnt know... lol


Oh iv always gone to the docs just to check how things are going just to calm friends nerves & have a general outline of my health


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Casper13 said:


> Just read these last few posts and made an order of a blood pressure monitor. Got one for a silly price so hope it works ok
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350585968611?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


Good to hear mate, Bp is so important and so easy to monitor and control... you'd be silly not to.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

infernal0988 said:


> Oh iv always gone to the docs just to check how things are going just to calm friends nerves & have a general outline of my health


as long as you keep an eye on health and make the adjustments needed etc who cares if you dnt care? lol

Its like me at work... i dnt care if some one breaks in but I set the alarm and lock the door every night... lol


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

big_jim_87 said:


> Good to hear mate, Bp is so important and so easy to monitor and control... you'd be silly not to.


Whats the best meds to control blood pressure. Are we talking OTC products? Only one im aware of is Hawthorne Berry.

This is what i used when i done a PH. Currently on Test E Possibly with some heavy metal thrown in there, looking to control bp.

Chhers


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Casper13 said:


> Whats the best meds to control blood pressure. Are we talking OTC products? Only one im aware of is Hawthorne Berry.
> 
> This is what i used when i done a PH. Currently on Test E Possibly with some heavy metal thrown in there, looking to control bp.
> 
> Chhers


my favs are-

Hawthorn berry

celery extract

aspirin (75mg a day)

Think there is a few other things...

cranberry i think can help.

water intake is also important.

If it was to get a little high Id say add in some cv, up water intake, up vit c and stay away from stims... caffeine can have an impact on it, also try to get your body weight down.

water retention can up bp too.

There are a few meds about too but best to use natty things 1st.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

big_jim_87 said:


> as long as you keep an eye on health and make the adjustments needed etc who cares if you dnt care? lol
> 
> Its like me at work... i dnt care if some one breaks in but I set the alarm and lock the door every night... lol


You got that right  my life does not have insurance though  so if it gets stolen I don't get a refund I guess?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Beet root juice

celery juice


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## teramobil (Nov 14, 2013)

grapefruit

grapefruit juice


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## uubiduu (Apr 22, 2012)

Hibiscus tea often overlooked but one of the most effective!


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