# Russia-Ukraine thoughts?



## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Just announced, Ukraine have mobilized there army as retaliation to invading Russian forces http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26405635

Do you think where going to get involved with this? ( As we normally do )

If so, do you think it could turn into an East vs West war?

Stuff like this dosnt normally interest me, but with Russia been a nuclear power I'd think thus could escalate very quickly. Also think it's one of, if not the main reason, we haven't already said where jumping in.

Anyone have any thoughts?


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

My first thought was thank fook its miles away


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

hopefully they blow each other up and leave me out of it


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## Adz (Jan 29, 2008)

We won't **** about with Russia. Hopefully.


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

We will do fvck all.

Russia sends in troops to ukraine, uk retaliates by canceling a meeting we have with russia sometime in june lol. Bulldog spirit my ar$e.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

World War 3 on its way


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Adz The Rat said:


> We won't **** about with Russia. Hopefully.


Like the added hopefully lol. Have to agree though, we really need to stay out of this


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

BettySwallocks said:


> We will do fvck all.
> 
> Russia sends in troops to ukraine, uk retaliates by canceling a meeting we have with russia sometime in june lol. Bulldog spirit my ar$e.


Agree with the bulldog spirit lol..we are renowned for jumping in to other people's ****, yet where doing are best to shy away from doing the same with this. Honestly think Us and the yanks are scared of doing so, for what it could turn into


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Things could get messy...


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Its the yanks you have to worry about they dont need any excuse for a fight least of all with russia.

Best thing to do is leave them to it


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## Adz (Jan 29, 2008)

Fishheadsoup said:


> Agree with the bulldog spirit lol..we are renowned for jumping in to other people's ****, yet where doing are best to shy away from doing the same with this. Honestly think Us and the yanks are scared of doing so, for what it could turn into


Yea Russia is enormous, has nuclear power and are known for being a bit mental. I dont think anyone would be wise to go to war with them.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Russia should be given the ban hammer,and turn off there internet for life.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

I suspect it's a ploy by the illuminati/ US government to cause civil unrest. What the US did in Iraq and many other countries before this was instate military dictators that are willing to work with the US, those that don't are taken out. This is what happened with Saddam, the attack was planned years and years before it actually happened, the weapons of mass destruction was a complete fabrication. The fact is he used to work for the CIA before he turned against the US so they sent in the military. Russia has a very powerful military and strong allies with Japan/China. This 'news'/propaganda is designed to sway public opinion, eventually it may escalate to the point where the Zionist propaganda machine manages to convince the general public it is worth going to war, I'm sure they have tallied up the potential earnings via weapons/military contracts, and so on. It's hard to say how this will play out though as Russia isn't a small country that the US can destroy and exploit in its usual manner. What the illuminati families want is a World bank that controls all via economic enslavement 'debt' - the modern day slavery, if Russia did manage to get a nuke in I do hope it lands on one of the Rothchilds Estates, I'd crack open a bottle to celebrate, that would be worth the watch


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

DeskSitter said:


> I suspect it's a ploy by the illuminati/ US government to cause civil unrest. What the US did in Iraq and many other countries before this was instate military dictators that are willing to work with the US, those that don't are taken out. This is what happened with Saddam, the attack was planned years and years before it actually happened, the weapons of mass destruction was a complete fabrication. The fact is he used to work for the CIA before he turned against the US so they sent in the military. Russia has a very powerful military and strong allies with Japan/China. This 'news'/propaganda is designed to sway public opinion, eventually it may escalate to the point where the Zionist propaganda machine manages to convince the general public it is worth going to war, I'm sure they have tallied up the potential earnings via weapons/military contracts, and so on. It's hard to say how this will play out though as Russia isn't a small country that the US can destroy and exploit in its usual manner. What the illuminati families want is a World bank that controls all via economic enslavement 'debt' - the modern day slavery, if Russia did manage to get a nuke in I do hope it lands on one of the Rothchilds Estates, I'd crack open a bottle to celebrate, that would be worth the watch


meanwhile in mentalville. wait for the sheep comment


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## killamanjaro (Dec 30, 2013)

johnnya said:


> My first thought was thank fook its miles away


It's not really that far, closer than you think


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Ashcrapper said:


> meanwhile in mentalville. wait for the sheep comment


**** off Ash


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

DeskSitter said:


> **** off Ash


not very nice is it?


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## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> **** off Ash


Reported for abusing the unhinged


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Ashcrapper said:


> not very nice is it?


I know your on a wind up mate but a lot of it's actually true, important that people don't believe what they see/read in the media, it's mostly bollocks


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

DeskSitter said:


> I know your on a wind up mate but a lot of it's actually true, important that people don't believe what they see/read in the media, it's mostly bollocks


I don't do stuff like that pal. Sorry, you're mistaken


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

DeskSitter said:


> I suspect it's a ploy by the illuminati/ US government to cause civil unrest. What the US did in Iraq and many other countries before this was instate military dictators that are willing to work with the US, those that don't are taken out. This is what happened with Saddam, the attack was planned years and years before it actually happened, the weapons of mass destruction was a complete fabrication. The fact is he used to work for the CIA before he turned against the US so they sent in the military. Russia has a very powerful military and strong allies with Japan/China. This 'news'/propaganda is designed to sway public opinion, eventually it may escalate to the point where the Zionist propaganda machine manages to convince the general public it is worth going to war, I'm sure they have tallied up the potential earnings via weapons/military contracts, and so on. It's hard to say how this will play out though as Russia isn't a small country that the US can destroy and exploit in its usual manner. What the illuminati families want is a World bank that controls all via economic enslavement 'debt' - the modern day slavery, if Russia did manage to get a nuke in I do hope it lands on one of the Rothchilds Estates, I'd crack open a bottle to celebrate, that would be worth the watch


Cool story bro


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

You win mate you win


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Another year, another war.

Humans just seem desperate to destroy each other.

The Russians just love causing their neighbours bother.

If this all kicks off no doubt the war mongering Americans will be in there all guns blazing as ever, just what they needed to have a reason to not cut their monstrous military budget like was planned, which would have been a good thing.


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

Anyone got an idea what Russia's actual aims are at this point? To reincorporate the Crimea into Russia maybe?


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## killamanjaro (Dec 30, 2013)

Ross S said:


> Anyone got an idea what Russia's actual aims are at this point? To reincorporate the Crimea into Russia maybe?


You'll have to ask Putin that question

Unless half the members here are henchmen aswell as kremlin insiders


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Duppy said:


> It's not really that far, closer than you think


Wouldnt fancy walking it, but I know what you mean


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Definitely a ploy to bring Ukraine under the IMF, give them big loans they can't afford, then austerity kicks in to service the never ending ponzi scheme that IMF loans are all about (cut pensions and social services, devaluation of their currency, higher taxes and utilities, repossession and privatisation), bring them under control of the EU, then Nato for strategic military advance (missile defence system, cancel Russian Navys lease of Sevastopol - replace with Nato fleets, and cutting Russia's access to the Mediterranean>Suez>Middle East..). A good win for a potential Unipolar Empire it would.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Dezw said:


> Another year, another war.
> 
> Humans just seem desperate to destroy each other.
> 
> ...


Yeah man, just feel with Russia been a nuclear power and there size (almost twice as much land mass as America) if that was to happen, we would basically be looking at WW3


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

Duppy said:


> You'll have to ask Putin that question
> 
> Unless half the members here are henchmen aswell as kremlin insiders


Just looking for opinions really mate...discussion and all!


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Ashcrapper said:


> World War 3 on its way


This could tie in with your new film. Things are looking up.


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

Ross S said:


> Anyone got an idea what Russia's actual aims are at this point? To reincorporate the Crimea into Russia maybe?


yeah thats probably it....they are making big demands about taking over Ukraine, so when they back down and only take Crimea everyone breathes a sigh of relief and let them have it...

what can the UK do about it.? fook all, the gas pipeline goes through Russia, and if they get the tits on they could turn it off...within a couple of days we would all be stuffed..!!


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Heavyassweights said:


> This could tie in with your new film. Things are looking up.


got to be better than World war z!


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

I recon there'll be lots of posturing and demands. ... meanwhile Russia will take over half (if not all of) Ukraine. We'll do **** all, neither will the US.


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

There wouldn't be WW3, come down guys  . US and Europe arent stupid enough to go to war with Russia, likewise for Russia.

Russia will try and keep Crimea under its control (whether it will succeed or not that's another issue). But there might be another case of Russia and Georgia


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Russia & the US are just as bad as each other. The only difference is the media teams involved.

This is a comment only about the govts.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Ahal84 said:


> There wouldn't be WW3, come down guys  . US and Europe arent stupid enough to go to war with Russia, likewise for Russia.
> 
> Russia will try and keep Crimea under its control (whether it will succeed or not that's another issue). But there might be another case of Russia and Georgia


Oh don't get me wrong, I don't belive America or the UK will get involved at all. They may just spank them by kicking them out if G8. When I mentioned the WW3 thing, that was more aimed at what would possibly happen if we did get involved


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)




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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

I can't see the UN actually accepting Russia extinguishing the sovereignty of another nation (if that is what happens) that's exactly how the Second World War started! I really do believe there will be a Third World War eventually!


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Send in a battalion of gurkas and buddhists,they will do some crazy sh1t.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't think we or the US will get involved much beyond hand-wringing and cancelling meetings. We just haven't got the appetite for it. Nor do we have the economic stability to back up a prolonged "world war" against Russia and China (as allies).


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## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

What do ukraine have thats of value to us ???? nothing so we will do nothing.......if it was full of oil....well thats a different story


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

NATO was set up after the Second World War to protect the sovereignty of nations against aggression from more powerful neighbours! If Russia's only aim is to retake the Crimea (which was part of Russia until 1954, and still has a large ethnic Russian population) then I agree they will do nothing, but if Russia try to annex the Ukraine then NATO must act!


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

And... you've got to take into account how much we rely on Russian energy (gas). Not much chance of us going to war with them.

Mystic Dave predicts Ukraine splits again, Russia takes the Crimean. Ukraine half retreats with tail between its legs and Russia carries on regardless.


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## bauhaus (May 31, 2009)

Dave 0511 said:


> I don't think we or the US will get involved much beyond hand-wringing and cancelling meetings. We just haven't got the appetite for it. Nor do we have the economic stability to back up a *prolonged* "world war" against Russia and China (as allies).


There would be nothing prolonged with war against Russia and China. Everything will have been done and dusted between east and west in just a short time.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

You're probably right mate! Or should I say comrade! Hail the new leader Putin!


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

i'll tell you exactly what will happen. russia will go to war and bomb towns and cities day and night, cameron will be all over our tv saying he is pouring billions to help the Ukrainians cuz this isnt acceptable and all that crap. then lots of meetings will take place etc. Ukraine will then be given the rights of a euro country and the runners will flood in left right and center.

if this happens then its europe v russia and then the US will have to get involved cuz cameron likes to play with obama.

its happened before and history always repeats itself


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## bauhaus (May 31, 2009)

Dave 0511 said:


> You're probably right mate! Or should I say comrade! Hail the new leader Putin!


Whilst the scenario is highly unlikely, I would surmise that if the U.S and U.K do engage militarily with Mother Russia, that it would escalate to a nuclear exchange, and also reduce Putin to nothing but fallout dust.

I think it's called Mutually Assured Destruction.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

C.Hill said:


> Things could get messy...


They need to send in Gorgeous George to keep the peace.


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

robbo1978 said:


> Whilst the scenario is highly unlikely, I would surmise that if the U.S and U.K do engage militarily with Mother Russia, that it would escalate to a nuclear exchange, and also reduce Putin to nothing but fallout dust.
> 
> I think it's called Mutually Assured Destruction.


In the style of Kent Brockman - may I be the first to welcome the new, invading, foreign overlords.


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## Dudeofdoom (Sep 3, 2010)

Duppy said:


> It's not really that far, closer than you think


Yep I was thinking its a bit close 1,727 mi so an easy 3 days drive in the car and roads aren't that bad :-(


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## Dudeofdoom (Sep 3, 2010)

robbo1978 said:


> Whilst the scenario is highly unlikely, I would surmise that if the U.S and U.K do engage militarily with Mother Russia, that it would escalate to a nuclear exchange, and also reduce Putin to nothing but fallout dust.
> 
> I think it's called Mutually Assured Destruction.


Doubt if it will escalate to a nuclear exchange but its definitely going to turn into a ****storm... I think the Ukrainians ditched a load of nukes in exchange for a protection plan from the west..


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> i'll tell you exactly what will happen. russia will go to war and bomb towns and cities day and night, cameron will be all over our tv saying he is pouring billions to help the Ukrainians cuz this isnt acceptable and all that crap. then lots of meetings will take place etc. Ukraine will then be given the rights of a euro country and the runners will flood in left right and center.
> 
> if this happens then its europe v russia and then the US will have to get involved cuz cameron likes to play with obama.
> 
> its happened before and history always repeats itself


The NWO just takes another step forward.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

I sometimes think I've accidentally logged in to the David Icke Forum.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Dudeofdoom said:


> Yep I was thinking its a bit close 1,727 mi so an easy 3 days drive in the car and roads aren't that bad :-(


Roads are ****e and the border passes....nightmare.


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## bauhaus (May 31, 2009)

Dudeofdoom said:


> Doubt if it will escalate to a nuclear exchange but its definitely going to turn into a ****storm... I think the Ukrainians ditched a load of nukes in exchange for a protection plan from the west..


No, neither do I mate. With the EU looking to expand into the Ukraine and the government being toppled by non-elected pro EU radicals, Russia was never just going to sit back and do nothing.

Like C.Hill said, things gonna get messy.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Ukraine will not go to war with Russia, they haven't the bowels for it. Why on earth would UK or US get involved? Except for throwing about a few diplomatic sentiments they'll be like boys hiding in the corner trying to stay out of the angry teachers line of sight.

The f***ing Rothschilds and NWO? How exactly did they organise this one then?


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## Endur0 (Feb 1, 2014)

It's all just for show. Some Ukranians favour ties with Europe, some (probably only the Russian occupants) favour ties with Russia, president is ousted and Putin wants to flex his massive veiny c*ck because the worlds media is watching, so moves his troops in. Crock of sh*t!


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## Dudeofdoom (Sep 3, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Roads are ****e and the border passes....nightmare.


TBH I usually drive to spain and have driven to Germany but not ever gone thru poland


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> meanwhile in mentalville. wait for the sheep comment


Nice one Ash.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Endur0 said:


> It's all just for show. Some Ukranians favour ties with Europe, some (probably only the Russian occupants) favour ties with Russia, president is ousted and Putin wants to flex his massive veiny c*ck because the worlds media is watching, so moves his troops in. Crock of sh*t!


Way too much concern for Putins c*ck for this to be taken as anything other than an 'in the closet' remark.


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## Endur0 (Feb 1, 2014)

mixerD1 said:


> Way too much concern for Putins c*ck for this to be taken as anything other than an 'in the closet' remark.


Lol, you're the one who made all the effort to quote it. I have 2 kids mate, I can't help you. Try bi-curious dot com!


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

mixerD1 said:


> Ukraine will not go to war with Russia, they haven't the bowels for it. *Why on earth would UK or US get involved?* Except for throwing about a few diplomatic sentiments they'll be like boys hiding in the corner trying to stay out of the angry teachers line of sight.
> 
> The f***ing Rothschilds and NWO? How exactly did they organise this one then?


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/28/fact-check-could-a-little-known-international-agreement-force-u-s-britain-into-war-with-russia/


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Endur0 said:


> Lol, you're the one who made all the effort to quote it. I have 2 kids mate, I can't help you. Try bi-curious dot com!


Nice try.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

engllishboy said:


> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/28/fact-check-could-a-little-known-international-agreement-force-u-s-britain-into-war-with-russia/


That's an interesting read. I didn't realise we promised to have there back for them giving up there nuclear program. That makes things a little awkward for us and the yanks now. It's obvious that's why where trying to coerce them from perusing this current patch, by threatening to remove them from the G8 and freeze there assests


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## Felipe92 (Dec 10, 2013)

USA will bring some democracy to Ukraine. I hope 3rd world war won`t start in next 6 weeks because it will interrupt my cycle. :lol:


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

DeskSitter said:


> I suspect it's a ploy by the illuminati/ US government to cause civil unrest. What the US did in Iraq and many other countries before this was instate military dictators that are willing to work with the US, those that don't are taken out. This is what happened with Saddam, the attack was planned years and years before it actually happened, the weapons of mass destruction was a complete fabrication. The fact is he used to work for the CIA before he turned against the US so they sent in the military. Russia has a very powerful military and strong allies with Japan/China. This 'news'/propaganda is designed to sway public opinion, eventually it may escalate to the point where the Zionist propaganda machine manages to convince the general public it is worth going to war, I'm sure they have tallied up the potential earnings via weapons/military contracts, and so on. It's hard to say how this will play out though as Russia isn't a small country that the US can destroy and exploit in its usual manner. What the illuminati families want is a World bank that controls all via economic enslavement 'debt' - the modern day slavery, if Russia did manage to get a nuke in I do hope it lands on one of the Rothchilds Estates, I'd crack open a bottle to celebrate, that would be worth the watch


I for one welcome our lizard overlords


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## DaveCW (Dec 9, 2013)

When the Soviet grip ended and everyone became somewhat independent it was a massive blow to Russia's power, these latest hostilities by Putin are a smart move on his part.

Its bad that they are forcing things into motion but if Russia is ever going to regain strength and gather momentum towards being what they were then they need Ukraine.

If they take Ukraine then one by one the rest will fall in line.

USA is actually very weak atm so another conflict is out of the question for the time being especially against Russia.

They just simply don't have the money or the man power to enter into a war with Russia which lets not forget is allies with all of USA's enemies (China,Syria,Iran) just to name a few.

Britain will do whatever their american handlers tell them to do.

America i suppose could run to the Rothchild's for a loan like they usually do but that would cause civil war within the USA because nearly their entire deficit is owed to the Rothchild's.

So it will be interesting to see what unfolds in the coming days.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Fishheadsoup said:


> That's an interesting read. I didn't realise we promised to have there back for them giving up there nuclear program. That makes things a little awkward for us and the yanks now. It's obvious that's why where trying to coerce them from perusing this current patch, by threatening to remove them from the G8 and freeze there assests


Interesting? I think it's a hilarious read...if this is implemented, just watch the B.S. and legal to-ing fro-ing and propaganda that will be spouted to duck out of it.

Believing in conspiracy theories has been proven by some university (cant remember the name but Ill root it out of somewhere or find something on youtube to prove it) to be just another mental illness something similar in origin to O.C.D.


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## Endur0 (Feb 1, 2014)

DaveCW said:


> So it will be interesting to see what unfolds in the coming days.


What will unfold is....... NOTHING. Ukraine is no longer nuclear & then you compare Russian military to Ukraine and there just is no match.

Like no match whatsoever!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Endur0 said:


> What will unfold is....... NOTHING. Ukraine is no longer nuclear & then you compare Russian military to Ukraine and there just is no match.
> 
> Like no match whatsoever!


Something like this?


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Interesting? I think it's a hilarious read...if this is implemented, just watch the B.S. and legal to-ing fro-ing and propaganda that will be spouted to duck out of it.
> 
> Believing in conspiracy theories has been proven by some university (cant remember the name but Ill root it out of somewhere or find something on youtube to prove it) to be just another mental illness something similar in origin to O.C.D.


These people who throw around all these conspiracies,like illuminate and false flags make me laugh. They can literally turn anything into conspiracies, even price changes at ASDA lol

Obviously where going to do everything to duck out of it.We have large numbers of forces deployed in multiple conflicts already, we won't go without America and they can't afford it. Then there's the fact it would be a war with another super power, with nuclear capabilities. That's not taking into account the resources we get from them like fuel.

But, either way you look at it, where going to upset someone as if we don't intervene, people will say where untrustworthy as some are expecting us to honor this Budapest Memorandum.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I wouldn't be surprised if the US hawks push hard to go in... huge natural gas reserves in the Ukraine, and a nice military conflict is always good to fill the pockets of the repulican politicians invested up to their asses in arms and infrastructure companies. Also, a chance to put a puppet government in and gain some lucrative trade contracts is always nice for those lovely guys too.

Can't say if it'll happen - not every politician in on that racket, but you can bet the usual far right cuddly munchkin republicans will be pushing for it.


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## smity220385 (Mar 15, 2012)

I love how everyone looks at Russia as if their some kind of military might. Their really not. Yes they have the biggest nuke, yes they have gas and oil.. But their nukes will probably not even work as being communists they really lacked investment in anything! It's a well documented fact that a lot of Russian weapons on show in the Cold War were not real and just models!

As for oil and gas, last thing the will do is shut the supply as if the don't sell it they won't get any money! Even if their was a war it'll be along the lines of the Korean War with the Russians backing one side and the yanks the other.

As for ww3.. Well with china and Japan getting at each other if this flashes up then it'll justify them going at it too


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

smity220385 said:


> I love how everyone looks at Russia as if their some kind of military might. Their really not. Yes they have the biggest nuke, yes they have gas and oil.. But their nukes will probably not even work as being communists they really lacked investment in anything! It's a well documented fact that a lot of Russian weapons on show in the Cold War were not real and just models!
> 
> As for oil and gas, last thing the will do is shut the supply as if the don't sell it they won't get any money! Even if their was a war it'll be along the lines of the Korean War with the Russians backing one side and the yanks the other.
> 
> As for ww3.. Well with china and Japan getting at each other if this flashes up then it'll justify them going at it too


Think the deal with Russia is there size and the fact China will side with them. As regards to WW3, the only way that will happen is if they attack the west first and that's not going to happen. If we went in as things are NATO wouldn't get involved.

Plus,let's just say for the sake of conversation, WW3 did happen. It would be over almost as fast as it started, as it will more than likely be a nuclear holocaust. But, obviously that's just theorizing


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

smity220385 said:


> I love how everyone looks at Russia as if their some kind of military might. Their really not. Yes they have the biggest nuke, yes they have gas and oil.. But their nukes will probably not even work as being communists they really lacked investment in anything! It's a well documented fact that a lot of Russian weapons on show in the Cold War were not real and just models!
> 
> As for oil and gas, last thing the will do is shut the supply as if the don't sell it they won't get any money! Even if their was a war it'll be along the lines of the Korean War with the Russians backing one side and the yanks the other.
> 
> As for ww3.. Well with china and Japan getting at each other if this flashes up then it'll justify them going at it too


True...young kids with no battle experience...russia remind me of those nutters

In korea and iran.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Fishheadsoup said:


> Think the deal with Russia is there size and the fact China will side with them. As regards to WW3, the only way that will happen is if they attack the west first and that's not going to happen. If we went in as things are NATO wouldn't get involved.
> 
> Plus,let's just say for the sake of conversation, WW3 did happen. It would be over almost as fast as it started, as it will more than likely be a nuclear holocaust. But, obviously that's just theorizing


China wnt do shyt...their economy is borderline as it is...the US would order the whole world to embargo them. Ergo, no cash for the foreseeable future...besides, relations are good between US and China. It's doubtful theyd fk that up...also, China have bought bits and pieces from Russia down the years and copied them left right and centre and defaulted on payment for military hardware to them...so its not all roses in that camp either.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

Putin taking advantage of Ukraine's weakness at this moment in time - The Crimea is mainly populated by Ethnic Russians and was handed to the Ukraine in 1954

Many there do think themselves as Russian - a lot of talk about language in the Ukraine - many do not speak Ukrainian - that was forced by Russia when they occupied Ukraine under the soviet empire - so should not have a basis in the argument - Like China a common language was needed - so local languages were forced out by closing schools and changing the language most children are taught in

A sensitive problem - I do not think it will lead to any military conflict - hope not !


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## mrbritish (Mar 29, 2013)

Putin simply playing 20 moves ahead of everyone else, political masterclass-Ukraine is in NATO and NATO countries are required to come to the aid of any other member. -by giving sanctuary to the president, legally he is still the democratically elected president of the Ukraine. Any requests to NATO would have to come through him, so it won't.-Putin wants as much land back to soviet era borders as possible, the creation of Ukraine having half pro russian populations means it will always be able to destabilise the country and claim it is protecting ethnic Russians -russia has the EU and any possible rival Ukrainian opposite by the balls without needing to fire a shot. It can simply turn off the energy pipelines and sell to china/Iran/Syria etc legally and with no detriment to themselves - the Ukrainian president can simply say he invited help from Russia and again legally Russian troops can march into Kiev -Russia has given the Ukrainian president the escape from Hague war crimes, he is in debt to Putin even if you ignore he is essentially a proxy Russian governor-NATO and the EU won't do anything with its current leaderless status. Georgia was the perfect test pilot. Putin knows the west has no stomach for a fight with Russia The most important thing imo is that again, Ukraine is massively in debt to Russia financially. Around 80% if it's energy comes via Russia. The Ukrainian military is pro-Russia and essentially has no strategic fuel reserves to fight a conflict with its outdated hardware.The pipeline. Mr Putin can flick a switch and completely legally shut down Ukraine. He can also do essentially the same with huge parts of the EU. He can do it legally, immediately and at no loss to Russia.Love or hate him, Putin is already packing up his chess set while Obama and us lapdogs are trying to figure out the rules for 52 card pick up!End scenario?-back to pre protest status but with a heavily pro Russia slant (even more so)-split country, a pro Russia east with all the valuable heavy industry and land. Pegged and stable currency linked to Russia (backed by loans) The pro EU western part gets Chernobyl, a ruined economy and financial system. The EU is beholden to them and has to bail out or accept them as a new member -2 or three breakaway pro Russian independent states that Russia recognises and will protect the ethnic Russians in them, essentially taking the prime cuts of the country Obama makes a speech about the importance of respecting nations sovereign territory, while committing illegal drone strikes and special forces operations in Pakistan, Yemen etc against the wishes of those states :sPutin sits at home playing Nintendo wii and plans his arctic expansionMy 2c anyway


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

smity220385 said:


> I love how everyone looks at Russia as if their some kind of military might. Their really not. Yes they have the biggest nuke, yes they have gas and oil.. But their nukes will probably not even work as being communists they really lacked investment in anything! It's a well documented fact that a lot of Russian weapons on show in the Cold War were not real and just models!
> 
> As for oil and gas, last thing the will do is shut the supply as if the don't sell it they won't get any money! Even if their was a war it'll be along the lines of the Korean War with the Russians backing one side and the yanks the other.
> 
> As for ww3.. Well with china and Japan getting at each other if this flashes up then it'll justify them going at it too


Western propaganda at its best lol.

In regards to gas and oil, yeah they can and will shut it off and so what if they dont get paid. They have other countries that they supply oil and gas to who will continue to pay.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> I suspect it's a ploy by the illuminati/ US government to cause civil unrest. What the US did in Iraq and many other countries before this was instate military dictators that are willing to work with the US, those that don't are taken out. This is what happened with Saddam, the attack was planned years and years before it actually happened, the weapons of mass destruction was a complete fabrication. The fact is he used to work for the CIA before he turned against the US so they sent in the military. Russia has a very powerful military and strong allies with Japan/China. This 'news'/propaganda is designed to sway public opinion, eventually it may escalate to the point where the Zionist propaganda machine manages to convince the general public it is worth going to war, I'm sure they have tallied up the potential earnings via weapons/military contracts, and so on. It's hard to say how this will play out though as Russia isn't a small country that the US can destroy and exploit in its usual manner. What the illuminati families want is a World bank that controls all via economic enslavement 'debt' - the modern day slavery, if Russia did manage to get a nuke in I do hope it lands on one of the Rothchilds Estates, I'd crack open a bottle to celebrate, that would be worth the watch


And your evidence for all of this is..................

That's a rhetorical question by the way... I have friends that are heavily into all of those many interlinked conspiracy theories and as a consequence I went off and looked for evidence they were right. What I found was unsubstantiated propaganda and a lot of "facts" that didn't in any way stand up to scrutiny. The Rothschilds for instance....the true story is so far removed from the conspiracy version it's painful. However - it is fine for people to believe these things...until they start adding noise to the real conspiracies being played out directly in front of our eyes.

In this instance - that theory (above) doesn't help much does it? You would celebrate the launch of a nuclear missile..really? Somehow I doubt that.

What happening in the Ukraine has the potential to destabilise the West quite substantially and as such it's important to all of us. It would appear Rusia are charging in to do the same thing the US do - acquire and rule.


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## Gynosaur (Mar 12, 2012)

DeskSitter said:


> I suspect it's a ploy by the illuminati/ US government to cause civil unrest. What the US did in Iraq and many other countries before this was instate military dictators that are willing to work with the US, those that don't are taken out. This is what happened with Saddam, the attack was planned years and years before it actually happened, the weapons of mass destruction was a complete fabrication. The fact is he used to work for the CIA before he turned against the US so they sent in the military. Russia has a very powerful military and strong allies with Japan/China. This 'news'/propaganda is designed to sway public opinion, eventually it may escalate to the point where the Zionist propaganda machine manages to convince the general public it is worth going to war, I'm sure they have tallied up the potential earnings via weapons/military contracts, and so on. It's hard to say how this will play out though as Russia isn't a small country that the US can destroy and exploit in its usual manner. What the illuminati families want is a World bank that controls all via economic enslavement 'debt' - the modern day slavery, if Russia did manage to get a nuke in I do hope it lands on one of the Rothchilds Estates, I'd crack open a bottle to celebrate, that would be worth the watch


Pics or bullsh1t.


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## Hicup (Jan 3, 2011)

mrbritish said:


> Putin simply playing 20 moves ahead of everyone else, political masterclass-Ukraine is in NATO and NATO countries are required to come to the aid of any other member. -by giving sanctuary to the president, legally he is still the democratically elected president of the Ukraine. Any requests to NATO would have to come through him, so it won't.-Putin wants as much land back to soviet era borders as possible, the creation of Ukraine having half pro russian populations means it will always be able to destabilise the country and claim it is protecting ethnic Russians -russia has the EU and any possible rival Ukrainian opposite by the balls without needing to fire a shot. It can simply turn off the energy pipelines and sell to china/Iran/Syria etc legally and with no detriment to themselves - the Ukrainian president can simply say he invited help from Russia and again legally Russian troops can march into Kiev -Russia has given the Ukrainian president the escape from Hague war crimes, he is in debt to Putin even if you ignore he is essentially a proxy Russian governor-NATO and the EU won't do anything with its current leaderless status. Georgia was the perfect test pilot. Putin knows the west has no stomach for a fight with Russia The most important thing imo is that again, Ukraine is massively in debt to Russia financially. Around 80% if it's energy comes via Russia. The Ukrainian military is pro-Russia and essentially has no strategic fuel reserves to fight a conflict with its outdated hardware.The pipeline. Mr Putin can flick a switch and completely legally shut down Ukraine. He can also do essentially the same with huge parts of the EU. He can do it legally, immediately and at no loss to Russia.Love or hate him, Putin is already packing up his chess set while Obama and us lapdogs are trying to figure out the rules for 52 card pick up!End scenario?-back to pre protest status but with a heavily pro Russia slant (even more so)-split country, a pro Russia east with all the valuable heavy industry and land. Pegged and stable currency linked to Russia (backed by loans) The pro EU western part gets Chernobyl, a ruined economy and financial system. The EU is beholden to them and has to bail out or accept them as a new member -2 or three breakaway pro Russian independent states that Russia recognises and will protect the ethnic Russians in them, essentially taking the prime cuts of the country Obama makes a speech about the importance of respecting nations sovereign territory, while committing illegal drone strikes and special forces operations in Pakistan, Yemen etc against the wishes of those states :sPutin sits at home playing Nintendo wii and plans his arctic expansionMy 2c anyway


Ukraine isnt in nato.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

kuju said:


> And your evidence for all of this is..................
> 
> That's a rhetorical question by the way... I have friends that are heavily into all of those many interlinked conspiracy theories and as a consequence I went off and looked for evidence they were right. What I found was unsubstantiated propaganda and a lot of "facts" that didn't in any way stand up to scrutiny. The Rothschilds for instance....the true story is so far removed from the conspiracy version it's painful. However - it is fine for people to believe these things...until they start adding noise to the real conspiracies being played out directly in front of our eyes.
> 
> ...


Nicely put. I particularly like the bit abt the Rothschilds. The fairytales these guys cook up are absolutely magical....more the pity they wouldn't become novelists or screenwriters...theres been a dearth of good fantasy movies for a few years. Another one I absolutely cherish.....Zionism. And as for the offence they take when you say theyre wrong! Like you just peed on their dear old granny.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Nicely put. I particularly like the bit abt the Rothschilds. The fairytales these guys cook up are absolutely magical....more the pity they wouldn't become novelists or screenwriters...theres been a dearth of good fantasy movies for a few years. Another one I absolutely cherish.....Zionism. And as for the offence they take when you say theyre wrong! Like you just peed on their dear old granny.


I have a good friend that is heavily into all of this stuff - but is very happy to debate it quite intelligently. I have spent a stupid amount of time looking for evidence to support these theories (and chemtrails...pfffff) and I am truly gobsmacked by the utter hypocrisy of the many websites devoted to them. That whole "sheeple" thing in particular. If you don't believe our theories then you are sheep...not like us ..people who blindly believe stuff that is often in the realms of expert knowledge - which can apparently be acquired simply by reading a few ever so slightly biased websites. Makes you wonder why experts bother spending decades learning their trade and honing their skills...........

For the most part I think...if you feel the need to believe in things completely on faith with little evidence...and mainstream religion doesn't do it for you..then go ahead and believe this instead. Not my issue. But when the debate adds so much noise and diverts people away from the real consipraces (international trade agreements, the fact that a very few companies basically own our high streets, the lobbying of ministers by people who pay large sums to political parties etc etc)..then it gets a bit irksome.

But hey - people are free to believe what they want I guess. In teh absence of solid evidence I'll treat it the same as any other religion. Ultimately - everythign requires a little faith. Even the theory of the Big Bang requires a little faith about what actually happened...


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Hicup said:


> Ukraine isnt in nato.


no not on paper it isnt


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

mixerD1 said:


> Nicely put. I particularly like the bit abt the Rothschilds. The fairytales these guys cook up are absolutely magical....more the pity they wouldn't become novelists or screenwriters...theres been a dearth of good fantasy movies for a few years. Another one I absolutely cherish.....Zionism. And as for the offence they take when you say theyre wrong! Like you just peed on their dear old granny.


you're clearly just a sheep mate. open your eyes, wake up etc


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Dave 0511 said:


> I sometimes think I've accidentally logged in to the David Icke Forum.


they want you to think its an accident.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

everyone should send their winter olympic medals back. that will teach them pesky russians not to fuk to with anyone!


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> The Ukrainian military is pro-Russia and essentially has no strategic fuel reserves to fight a conflict with its outdated hardware.The pipeline. Mr Putin can flick a switch and completely legally shut down Ukraine


the bit about military is pro Russian not really true - one or two maybe - but for the majority of Ukrainians they dislike russians intelsly

Outdated hardware is true


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

kuju said:


> I have a good friend that is heavily into all of this stuff - but is very happy to debate it quite intelligently. I have spent a stupid amount of time looking for evidence to support these theories (and chemtrails...pfffff) and I am truly gobsmacked by the utter hypocrisy of the many websites devoted to them. That whole "sheeple" thing in particular. If you don't believe our theories then you are sheep...not like us ..people who blindly believe stuff that is often in the realms of expert knowledge - which can apparently be acquired simply by reading a few ever so slightly biased websites. Makes you wonder why experts bother spending decades learning their trade and honing their skills...........
> 
> For the most part I think...if you feel the need to believe in things completely on faith with little evidence...and mainstream religion doesn't do it for you..then go ahead and believe this instead. Not my issue. But when the debate adds so much noise and diverts people away from the real consipraces (international trade agreements, the fact that a very few companies basically own our high streets, the lobbying of ministers by people who pay large sums to political parties etc etc)..then it gets a bit irksome.
> 
> But hey - people are free to believe what they want I guess. In teh absence of solid evidence I'll treat it the same as any other religion. Ultimately - everythign requires a little faith. Even the theory of the Big Bang requires a little faith about what actually happened...


I know exactly where youre coming from Kuju...I started reading abt all this stuff many years ago purely out of curiosity and boredom...then researched these ''facts'' and realised it was all crap dolled up to look real and in some cases gently massaged actual happenings to look like something else entirely.

I had an ongoing row with a chap whos also on here in a different guise over the last week on another forum..the usual baloney, here's my 'facts', where's your proof I'm wrong?!?!

I just countered a few points and basically said, cop on, do something useful like read history not fairytales or open a soup kitchen for the homeless.

It eventually ended up with me getting a PM with 'you fuc**ng pr*ck, where do you get off telling me to get a life' in it. Solid argument. :thumbup1:

Im writing this cos I know said jackass will read it here too.

It should be funny but it's tragic.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> you're clearly just a sheep mate. open your eyes, wake up etc


B'a'a'a'a'h.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> I know exactly where youre coming from Kuju...I started reading abt all this stuff many years ago purely out of curiosity and boredom...then researched these ''facts'' and realised it was all crap dolled up to look real and in some cases gently massaged actual happenings to look like something else entirely.
> 
> I had an ongoing row with a chap whos also on here in a different guise over the last week on another forum..the usual baloney, here's my 'facts', where's your proof I'm wrong?!?!
> 
> ...


Yeah - I'm happy to debate this stuff and open to the idea i'm wrong about pretty much everything i believe to be true. It's possible and I would be foolish to believe otherwise. But so often the debate has gone straight to "open your eyes, do some research" etc etc. Ermm...no...i'm asking you to re-examine your own evidence because i've just opinted out a valid flaw in it. Ignoring that flaw weakens the whole argument.

I had a debate with one guy about chemtrails and at one point he reckoned he could tell within 1000 feet how high a plane was flying. Excellent...that's still a huge margin for atmospheric conditions (look at the edges of clouds for instance) and my Dad couldn't do that despite being a military pilot for 40+ years......the debate ended there.

Back on topic though - the Ukraine looks like an absolute mess....I genuinely feel for people out teher right now. No matter what side you're on (and there appears to be several) it's fubar.


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## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

There is a certain website that shows exactly what was going on in the streets of Ukraine recently. The sight of military/police marksmen using its unarmed civilians as target practice is something that will live with me a long time, I've literally not seen anything like it. To get to that point where you believe you can just zap anything that moves without repercussions, something else sinister is going on there which hasn't been brought to light yet. It was like something out of a siege movie yet the people dieing were real, average unarmed looking people hiding behind anything they could posing absolutely NO threat to anyone dropping all round the streets. Someone has to pay for this it was disgusting.

Russia are proving a massive pain in the ass, they seem to support countries that deem it ok to slaughter and oppress its civilians and every time the west puts pressure on those countries governments to sort its act out they step in and consistently take the other side. I'm convinced they are doing it mainly because they don't like the influence of the US on the world and want to automatically beat their chest and challenge it. They don't have to agree with the western approach, they DO have to condemn the senseless slaughter and criticise the governments doing it. No wonder some of its own people have been protesting there in recent years because they are fed up of the way their own country is being corruptly run.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

kuju said:


> Yeah - I'm happy to debate this stuff and open to the idea i'm wrong about pretty much everything i believe to be true. It's possible and I would be foolish to believe otherwise. But so often the debate has gone straight to "open your eyes, do some research" etc etc. Ermm...no...i'm asking you to re-examine your own evidence because i've just opinted out a valid flaw in it. Ignoring that flaw weakens the whole argument.
> 
> I had a debate with one guy about chemtrails and at one point he reckoned he could tell within 1000 feet how high a plane was flying. Excellent...that's still a huge margin for atmospheric conditions (look at the edges of clouds for instance) and my Dad couldn't do that despite being a military pilot for 40+ years......the debate ended there.
> 
> Back on topic though - the Ukraine looks like an absolute mess....I genuinely feel for people out teher right now. No matter what side you're on (and there appears to be several) it's fubar.


Nah, Im too old for debating with plain stupid. As Hackskii says, ''Never argue with an idiot, hell drag you down to his level and beat you with experience''.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

If it all kicks off, does that mean "hot russian babes" wont want to meet me in my area anymore?!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

braxbro said:


> There is a certain website that shows exactly what was going on in the streets of Ukraine recently. The sight of military/police marksmen using its unarmed civilians as target practice is something that will live with me a long time, I've literally not seen anything like it. To get to that point where you believe you can just zap anything that moves without repercussions, something else sinister is going on there which hasn't been brought to light yet. It was like something out of a siege movie yet the people dieing were real, average unarmed looking people hiding behind anything they could posing absolutely NO threat to anyone dropping all round the streets. Someone has to pay for this it was disgusting.
> 
> Russia are proving a massive pain in the ass, they seem to support countries that deem it ok to slaughter and oppress its civilians and every time the west puts pressure on those countries governments to sort its act out they step in and consistently take the other side. I'm convinced they are doing it mainly because they don't like the influence of the US on the world and want to automatically beat their chest and challenge it. They don't have to agree with the western approach, they DO have to condemn the senseless slaughter and criticise the governments doing it. No wonder some of its own people have been protesting there in recent years because they are fed up of the way their own country is being corruptly run.


Hmm, horses for courses, I like the way Russia is straight up and honest about their bullying, whereas U.S. give it the old W.M.D. saving the oppressed and spreading democracy bullshyt.

The picture of Napalmgirl haunted me for a long time when I first saw it too...the mowing down of civillians in Iraq from gunships that leaked a few yrs ago...ya, the U.S. are real angels of mercy alright.


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## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Hmm, horses for courses, I like the way Russia is straight up and honest about their bullying, whereas U.S. give it the old W.M.D. saving the oppressed and spreading democracy bullshyt.
> 
> The picture of Napalmgirl haunted me for a long time when I first saw it too...the mowing down of civillians in Iraq from gunships that leaked a few yrs ago...ya, the U.S. are real angels of mercy alright.


lol Russia straight up and honest,have they admitted they rigged their own election yet?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

you only have to watch RT to realise how deluded they are at the top,look at the type of

people your dealing with.


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

Putin = the new Hitler


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

braxbro said:


> lol Russia straight up and honest,have they admitted they rigged their own election yet?


Haha...you've obviously not heard of George W. Bush in Florida a few years ago.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

dbaird said:


> Putin = the new Hitler


Ok, good one...give comparisons.


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## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Haha...you've obviously not heard of George W. Bush in Florida a few years ago.


No I haven't enlighten me to the facts.

I can't believe you think Russia have better morals than the US honestly. Are you just playing Devils advocate or would you honestly rather a Russian operated world than a US?


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

kuju said:


> And your evidence for all of this is..................
> 
> That's a rhetorical question by the way... I have friends that are heavily into all of those many interlinked conspiracy theories and as a consequence I went off and looked for evidence they were right. What I found was unsubstantiated propaganda and a lot of "facts" that didn't in any way stand up to scrutiny. The Rothschilds for instance....the true story is so far removed from the conspiracy version it's painful. However - it is fine for people to believe these things...until they start adding noise to the real conspiracies being played out directly in front of our eyes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

braxbro said:


> No I haven't enlighten me to the facts.
> 
> I can't believe you think Russia have better morals than the US honestly. Are you just playing Devils advocate or would you honestly rather a Russian operated world than a US?


Absolutely not dude, Im not even really disagreeing with you...Im totally against atrocities commited by ANYONE whatever BS its meant to be in the name of.

But let it never be said the U.S. are all sweetness and light and Russia is the devil.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

dbaird said:


> Putin = the new Hitler


Worrying that you think this mate


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


>


3 and a half hours!!!!! Aint nobody got time f' dat.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Just leave them to it, why the fcuk we have to stick our noses in other countries business is beyond me..... Oh wait no it's not it's the consequence of Blair taking it in the a$$ from Bush for all those years


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> 3 and a half hours!!!!! Aint nobody got time f' dat.


But you don't even have to read anything ...


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> Ok, good one...give comparisons.


This comparison has been made before, by people like Stephen Fry in letters to the PM..

He is just looking for an excuse to kick off really.. He started over Syria.. now he is just flexing his muscles with Ukraine.. Poland are moving tanks to the borders..

You are sound like you have some alignment with Putin and Russia


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> Ok, good one...give comparisons.


http://news.asiaone.com/news/world/putin-hitler-1930s-former-czech-foreign-minister


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> Ok, good one...give comparisons.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/461770/Expert-likens-possible-Putin-action-on-Ukraine-to-Hitler-s-1938-move-on-Czechoslovakia


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

The corruption in those two countries is absolutely through the roof, but as it looks, the Ukrainians have decided that they have had enough. Hopefully the Russians will back off eventually and find another country to milk through gas and nuclear fuel prices...

I also think that Russia mobilising troops near the border is an absolutely joke, just like North Korea was but unlike the Korea, the Russians actually have the resources to do anything they want; having said that, it is very unlikely to happen as the United States have already warned them not to interfere.

Edit: I don't really understand why everyone dislikes the United States so much, the hate has even gone on to the European Union now which is very silly; the least people can do is thank for their homes, their salaries and their security, not bite the hand that feeds them and provides all of this...


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## PLauGE (Oct 17, 2010)

Everybody needs to chill ahhht! ive got me old pal Chuck Norris on the blower, hes got this sh1t


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## dbaird (Sep 2, 2012)

DeskSitter said:


> Worrying that you think this mate


Why?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Pain2Gain said:


> Just leave them to it, why the fcuk we have to stick our noses in other countries business is beyond me..... Oh wait no it's not it's the consequence of Blair taking it in the a$$ from Bush for all those years


It could affect our gas supplies, i think a lot of our gas comes from Ukraine.

If they stop the flow we'll get stiffed even more by the gas companies over here.


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## 0x00 (Jan 16, 2014)

mal said:


> you only have to watch RT to realise how deluded they are at the top,look at the type of
> 
> people your dealing with.


Feel like my brains just been raped, where do i send my invoice for that 3 mins of my life back?

~0x00


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

dbaird said:


> This comparison has been made before, by people like Stephen Fry in letters to the PM..
> 
> He is just looking for an excuse to kick off really.. He started over Syria.. now he is just flexing his muscles with Ukraine.. Poland are moving tanks to the borders..
> 
> You are sound like you have some alignment with Putin and Russia


Oh lord no...hes ex KGB, a dictator and the worst of all...a true commie. I dont have any allegiance with them. I feel sorry for the Russkies because they innocently led themselves down a one way road nearly a hundred years ago and theyre suffering for it since...the only thing is they seem to be well cut out for it.

I dont know what Stephen Fry said but I certainly have a lot of respect for his opinion.

Aside from that I dont see the similarities to Hitler, but no doubt Stephen Fry knows a whole lot more about him than I do.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> But you don't even have to read anything ...


I'd actually prefer to read something. No offence but youtube ''movies'' are... the best way I could put it is, inadmissible in court.

Have we met somewhere else recently??


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Smitch said:


> It could affect our gas supplies, i think a lot of our gas comes from Ukraine.
> 
> If they stop the flow we'll get stiffed even more by the gas companies over here.


^^

Also if the United States and Canada didn't "stick their noses" during World War II, all of us were probably going to be speaking German...

So yeah, a very fine example just above of why all of us have a duty to express opinion and take action that we find appropriate.


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)




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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)




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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Carbon-12 said:


> ^^
> 
> Also if the United States and Canada didn't "stick their noses" during World War II, all of us were probably going to be speaking German...
> 
> So yeah, a very fine example just above of why all of us have a duty to express opinion and take action that we find appropriate.


Dont mention the war!!!


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## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

Carbon-12 said:


>


I wouldn't say this Putin in the new Hitler as some other posts. Putin is a strong character, a Libra, someone not to be pushed too far, no doubt about that, however he's no where near what hitler was.

The ukraine government police was killing their own people, protestors in their own streets. They were dealing with it the wrong way. Something had to happen.

Russia has taken control of Crimea, which has russian civilians.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Jas said:


> I wouldn't say this Putin in the new Hitler as some other posts. Putin is a strong character, a Libra, someone not to be pushed too far, no doubt about that, however he's no where near what hitler was.
> 
> The ukraine government police was killing their own people, protestors in their own streets. They were dealing with it the wrong way. Something had to happen.
> 
> Russia has taken control of Crimea, which has russian civilians.


You sound like you know what youre talking about.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> You sound like you know what youre talking about.


sarcasm?  sounds like he hasnt got a fvcking clue to me lol


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Jas said:


> I wouldn't say this Putin in the new Hitler as some other posts. Putin is a strong character, a Libra, someone not to be pushed too far, no doubt about that, however he's no where near what hitler was.
> 
> The ukraine government police was killing their own people, protestors in their own streets. They were dealing with it the wrong way. Something had to happen.
> 
> Russia has taken control of Crimea, which has russian civilians.


Not necessarily Hitler but quite of a dictator himself...

Also the police was shooting at people under presidential orders, which were probably given to that doll of a president they had by no other than Putin himself. Thank god the international media made it headlines before it could get any worse; when communism fell in Bulgaria and democracy was established, the dictatorship fought until the end, they actually got the military involved by ordering them to get military tanks on the streets and shoot at protesters at which point the military stopped obeying orders.

Furthermore, Russia has absolutely no right to take control of other countries' territory under international law which is what they did using the Russian supporters and speakers in that particular area as an excuse which is very transparent in my opinion. It's like the UK getting into a conflict with Afghanistan and the Afghani army sending troops over here to protect people that speak their language in areas that the majority of population is afghani like Ilford in London which is absolutely ridiculous...


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> sarcasm?  sounds like he hasnt got a fvcking clue to me lol


No...to be fair...Putin does strike me as a no nonsense, no BS kind of character. I dont believe in commyism and all that, but having said that..to handle/control Russians you have to be stronger than the Russians...theyre a very no nonsense, no BS type of people and I think Putin is the man for the job.

He does not strike me as a sociopathic, Jew-hating, genocidal, homicidal, child killing, torturing and hellbent on world domination madman.


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## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

Carbon-12 said:


> Not necessarily Hitler but quite of a dictator himself...
> 
> Also the police was shooting at people under presidential orders, which were probably given to that doll of a president they had by no other than Putin himself. Thank god the international media made it headlines before it could get any worse; when communism fell in Bulgaria and democracy was established, the dictatorship fought until the end, they actually got the military involved by ordering them to get military tanks on the streets and shoot at protesters at which point the military stopped obeying orders.
> 
> Furthermore, Russia has absolutely no right to take control of other countries' territory under international law which is what they did using the Russian supporters and speakers in that particular area as an excuse which is very transparent in my opinion. It's like the UK getting into a conflict with Afghanistan and the Afghani army sending troops over here to protect people that speak their language in areas that the majority of population is afghani like Ilford in London which is absolutely ridiculous...


The English Government have a reputation for interfering where there not wanted. This will only come back to bite them.

Am not arguing with you for a variety of reasons. I've just added my input. Enjoy your day.


----------



## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Jas said:


> The English Government have a reputation for interfering where there not wanted. This will only come back to bite them.
> 
> Am not arguing with you for a variety of reasons. I've just added my input. Enjoy your day.


No need to argue, just a fair bit of discussion. 

Anyway, good day sir!


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> No...to be fair...Putin does strike me as a no nonsense, no BS kind of character. I dont believe in commyism and all that, but having said that..to handle/control Russians you have to be stronger than the Russians...theyre a very no nonsense, no BS type of people and I think Putin is the man for the job.
> 
> He does not strike me as a sociopathic, Jew-hating, genocidal, homicidal, child killing, torturing and hellbent on world domination madman.


No just a racist homophobic delusional bully  he is obviously not like hitler though haha

He has invaded the Ukraine because there are some Russian's or Russian speaking people living there he says.... Fvck it lets invade it ourselves I bet some of them speak English!  The guy is a butty short of a picnic, he could potentially start a massive war because his "mate" was kicked out of power in the Ukraine. He needs to fvck off and sort his own backwards thinking country. Im thinking he wants the old USSR back.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Jas said:


> The English Government have a reputation for interfering where there not wanted. This will only come back to bite them.
> 
> Am not arguing with you for a variety of reasons. I've just added my input. Enjoy your day.


The rest of the world wont do fvck all. This is not some half assed arab country throwing some weight around it is a super power. We will just say hey stop it or we will put some sanctions on you that will do fvck all.

Then Russia will up the price of their gas and we will get screwed.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

Whatever the rights and wrongs... Its fair to say Putin has balls 1 million x larger than the leaders of our country have.

I respect him for that at least.


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## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

Dave 0511 said:


> Whatever the rights and wrongs... Its fair to say Putin has balls 1 million x larger than the leaders of our country have.
> 
> I respect him for that at least.


Easy when you have an army his size...


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

Jas said:


> I wouldn't say this Putin in the new Hitler as some other posts. Putin is a strong character, *a Libra*, someone not to be pushed too far, no doubt about that, however he's no where near what hitler was.
> 
> The ukraine government police was killing their own people, protestors in their own streets. They were dealing with it the wrong way. Something had to happen.
> 
> Russia has taken control of Crimea, which has russian civilians.


I was a bit sceptical that what you wrote was a bit fast and loose, but then you mentioned he's a libra, and now I'm completely convinced.


----------



## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


>


Yes those are excellent - they don't look in the slightest bit like propaganda in any way whatsoever.......

Seriously - do you not think it's ironic that the same people who denigrate governments onthe basis of conspiracies, false flag operations, media mind control, etc etc etc...use the exa same techniques they deplore in governments in order to sell their own agenda.

A popular cry of people who believe he above theories is that truth is absolute. Ignoring the highly debatable nature of that statement....that means it is independently verifiable and unbiased.It alsop means t should not be portrayed with random images, mood music and all the other trappigs of tabloid nonsense. Like the second video. Where is the independent proof that the guy speaking is in any way telling the truth? Where is the proof that he had the role he claims?

The stuff he talks about early on is...btw.....not remotely secret. It't alsnot zionist or in any way connected to the rothschilds.

As or zeitgeist - awesmoe film - highly suspect claims...clear propaganda and whilst I used to lap t up I now think it has done a great deal of damage to any attempt to address the issues it raises. Still a great film mind - a log as you don't just sit there and believe it.

Neither of the films is - or provides - evidenc.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Jaff0 said:


> I was a bit sceptical that what you wrote was a bit fast and loose, but then you mentioned he's a libra, and now I'm completely convinced.




:thumb: :lol:

Noticed it too but have been black sheep for a while, don't need any more hate.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

Putin is a power-hungry macho criminal who is way too cunning and too aware of wha he can get away with. He is an inordinately dangerous man. He is in power because he rigged elections...and did so in *the* most cunning way. Frankly I'm slightly in awe that he p;ulled it off....and also slightly worried.

I know someone who met him...american guy who owned a major football team- New ENgland Patriots i think (ie very rich) - he was at a dinner with Putin and was wearing a gold ring; one of a limited edition he had made to celebrate winning the superbowl.Putin asked to try it on...and then walked away with it. It made the press at the time and Putin's spokeman has claimed it was a "gift" - the WHite House apparently suggested it was best left that way. The guy I spoke to said one of Putin's aides told him that (a) he had made a gift whether he recognised that or not...and there was nothing he could do to change that and ( B) that the many business contracts he had in Russia can suddenly end with great ease.

Or to put it another way - a world leader stole a ring off someone at a dinner and then got his assistant to tell the guy to lump it. Now you may admire his balls for doing that...but someone in that position acting like a gangster/bully is not a good thing. Ever.

The Ukraine kicked off because people were tired of corruption, of being starved, of being ignored.........shooting them was the last resort of a controlling power that had run out of ideas and clearly didn't give a fvck abotu the people...which is why it kicked off in the first place. Sending in yet more gun and tanks...from another interested party who also doesn't give a fvck abotu the people is not going to solve it.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

kuju said:


> Yes those are excellent - they don't look in the slightest bit like propaganda in any way whatsoever.......
> 
> Seriously - do you not think it's ironic that the same people who denigrate governments onthe basis of conspiracies, false flag operations, media mind control, etc etc etc...use the exa same techniques they deplore in governments in order to sell their own agenda.
> 
> ...


How much ****ing evidence do you need man? A lot of the information in the videos are FACTS, not just pious opinion. Debt as a mechanism of control being one... that is how it works! Of course both have a cinematic element otherwise nobody would be bothered to watch it, these films have to infringe on entertainment to get attention... compared to mainstream news which is effectually one big long film production I can't see how someone can't at least open their mind to the notion that things are not as they seem. I don't understand how you can call these films out as 'propaganda', propaganda for what exactly? Admittedly the zeitgeist movement is trying to win people over, a portion of the video offers solutions to common world problems, one being the monetary system.. if this is what you mean by propaganda ? What more evidence do you need to see, are you not surrounded by it every day of your life ?


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Jaff0 said:


> I was a bit sceptical that what you wrote was a bit fast and loose, but then you mentioned he's a libra, and now I'm completely convinced.


it's lucky he is a Sagittarius otherwise we would all be absolutely ****ed


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## steveb1 (Feb 13, 2014)

they should just kiss and make up


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> How much ****ing evidence do you need man? A lot of the information in the videos are FACTS, not just pious opinion. Debt as a mechanism of control being one... that is how it works! Of course both have a cinematic element otherwise nobody would be bothered to watch it, these films have to infringe on entertainment to get attention... compared to mainstream news which is effectually one big long film production I can't see how someone can't at least open their mind to the notion that things are not as they seem. I don't understand how you can call these films out as 'propaganda', propaganda for what exactly? Admittedly the zeitgeist movement is trying to win people over, a portion of the video offers solutions to common world problems, one being the monetary system.. if this is what you mean by propaganda ? What more evidence do you need to see, are you not surrounded by it every day of your life ?


I haven't watched the second film....I may give it a go at some point but the 10 minutes I watched was extremely poor and didn't offer a shred of evidence.

Zeitgeist on the other hand - I have watched, several times...and I went away and questioned it and did my own research. There are so many holes in that film I am amazed it still circulates. It is overflowing with "facts" that are poorly presented, or wrong, or not actually true. It offers a very compelling view of a utopian society that would be absolutely amazing...as long as people didn't get involved...because then it would fall apart. Seriously - it is not a source of evidence, it does not provide facts that stand up to much scrutiny and it strings together it's highly compelling but ultimately tenuous arguments with a particlular process that is specifically used in all propaganda films. That's what I mean by propaganda. The way it is presented is not unbiased and factual and self-critical. In any way. It is not balanced in its view.

Debt is of course a mechanism of control and yes, there are some serious scams going on globally that use that very point.....but not the way they have been presented there - they are actually very open and very visible......the more we claim to have all this secret knowledge - which isn't in fact true - the more noise we add to the debate and the harder it becomes to deal with it.

When I say I want evidence - i want unbiased, neutral evidence from reliable sources, that isn't being sold as part of a film produced by a man with no discernible understanding of the real issues, who has a clear and admitted agenda to bring about world change (although he's a bit vague about it to be fair) and importantly - isn't simply rehashing anti semitic stories that have floated around since........the last couple of times there were large anti-semitic movements. Like nazism. And even older than that. In fact there are stories abotu the rothschilds that have different names in them but the same story....because it is and always has been propaganda.

Whilst you're sat there shouting at the Rothschilds...who are pretty much a spent financial force globally compared to where they used to be.....the real people behind all these massive money making deals that leave us poorer and the very few much richer..are laughing their rocks off all the way to their gold plated bank.

It's not so much abotu the weight of evidence..although that's important...it's abotu the quality of the evidence and whether the people putting it forward have bothered to question it, verify it independently...or in any way challenge it. Because you should always challenge your own evidence and accept that it may not stand up to scrutiny. It depends whether you simply want some stuff that makes it look like you're right or whether you actually want the truth of the matter as much as can be ascertained...........


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## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

http://news.sky.com/story/1220272/ukraine-russia-delivers-assault-storm-deadline

Apparently Russia have now given the Ukraine until 3am to surrender or face a military assault...


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

if there army looks like this then i hope they march on the uk next!


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## ar4i (Jan 29, 2013)

Not looking at this from political point of view or the reason why they are kicking off.

Ukraine was part of USSR, population in Crimea is mostly Russian, who unlike so called "true Ukrainians" don't shout out Nazi sh** towards other nationalities.

Who else is going to help them if not Russia? The anti-Russia government? I don't think so, the West? Maybe give some aid to the country but that's about it. People will not feel this kind of help as real enough.

Russia has made it easier for people from Crimea to obtain a Russian passport. This gives them security, opportunity to work in Russia, live, etc etc.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

kuju said:


> I haven't watched the second film....I may give it a go at some point but the 10 minutes I watched was extremely poor and didn't offer a shred of evidence.
> 
> Zeitgeist on the other hand - I have watched, several times...and I went away and questioned it and did my own research. There are so many holes in that film I am amazed it still circulates. It is overflowing with "facts" that are poorly presented, or wrong, or not actually true. It offers a very compelling view of a utopian society that would be absolutely amazing...as long as people didn't get involved...because then it would fall apart. Seriously - it is not a source of evidence, it does not provide facts that stand up to much scrutiny and it strings together it's highly compelling but ultimately tenuous arguments with a particlular process that is specifically used in all propaganda films. That's what I mean by propaganda. The way it is presented is not unbiased and factual and self-critical. In any way. It is not balanced in its view.
> 
> ...


****ing sheep


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

british subs and American war ships could take out everything in Crimea in less than 24 hours, they

should do it now...no mercy.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

Ashcrapper said:


> ****ing sheep


THOSE PICTURES WERE FAKED!!!

Oh...you mean...right...yeah..... mmmaaaaah. Mmmmaaah...


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mal said:


> british subs and American war ships could take out everything in Crimea in less than 24 hours, they
> 
> should do it now...no mercy.


Ermm....so we should slaughter thousands of innocent civilians in order to achieve...erm....wtf???


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

kuju said:


> Ermm....so we should slaughter thousands of innocent civilians in order to achieve...erm....wtf???


no mate the Russian invaders(army) dull cvnt.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mal said:


> no mate the Russian invaders(army) dull cvnt.


Oh right....just start WW3 then...excellent. The fact that they are only barely the second largest superpower in terms of military might might be important...and the fact that the third largest..China..is their ally. And the fact that in a land battle they outnumber both US and UK put together.....or any of the hundred other reasons why blowing up their army in teh crimea would be the single stupidest act of war..possibly in history.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

BettySwallocks said:


> http://news.sky.com/story/1220272/ukraine-russia-delivers-assault-storm-deadline
> 
> Apparently Russia have now given the Ukraine until 3am to surrender or face a military assault...


Im more interested to see if he Putin takes Crimea and then just leaves it there, or decides he wants to expand further. Will be a **** storm if he does!



kuju said:


> Oh right....just start WW3 then...excellent. The fact that they are only barely the second largest superpower in terms of military might might be important...and the fact that the third largest..China..is their ally. And the fact that in a land battle they outnumber both US and UK put together.....or any of the hundred other reasons why blowing up their army in teh crimea would be the single stupidest act of war..possibly in history.


It's not even going to get that far...And troop numbers are irrelevant in this day and age where nuclear power is going to be the deciding factor. If one day WW3 was to happen, it will be a nuclear holocaust


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/03/russia-vladimir-putin-the-west-104134_Page2.html#.UxR70FxgLoY


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> No just a racist homophobic delusional bully  he is obviously not like hitler though haha
> 
> He has invaded the Ukraine because there are some Russian's or Russian speaking people living there he says.... Fvck it lets invade it ourselves I bet some of them speak English!  The guy is a butty short of a picnic, he could potentially start a massive war because his "mate" was kicked out of power in the Ukraine. He needs to fvck off and sort his own backwards thinking country. Im thinking he wants the old USSR back.


He does yes, or something similar to it.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)




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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Fishheadsoup said:


> Im more interested to see if he Putin takes Crimea and then just leaves it there, or decides he wants to expand further. Will be a **** storm if he does!


MY girlfriend (Lithuanian) is adamant Putin will go for Finland (Non-NATO) next, then he has a way through to the west, so to speak. I can't see it happening personally. I do believe he wants the USSR back, and then wants the world.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

engllishboy said:


> MY girlfriend (Lithuanian) is adamant Putin will go for Finland (Non-NATO) next, then he has a way through to the west, so to speak. I can't see it happening personally. I do believe he wants the USSR back, and then wants the world.


If that was the case i'd say he's timed it just right. With Americas massive debt and the west having lots of forces in Iraq,Afghanistan,Syria amongst others. There wouldn't be a lot we could really do, other than dropping a nuke on him. IMO he's obviously got an agenda bigger than Crimea and shown he's got more balls then our leaders, it's just seeing what he does next.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Just a bit of a shite situation really.

Trouble is bound to happen when you have a country with split loyalties like the Ukraine though.

I know no one wants a war, but does the rest of the world just stand by and let Russia push it's neighbours around. My guess is Crimea will be an allowable sacrifice but any more advances into Ukraine could cause problems.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

I really hope this doesn't end up becoming a genuine global conflict. It starts small but then escalates

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads

anyone seen that? Similar events led up to global thermo-nuclear war. I know it's a film, but we are a ****ing retarded species and it's not out of the question.


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## Lousy_Bastard (Oct 20, 2008)

latblaster said:


>


 Lovely bunch of people.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Shows them for exactly what they are.

Thanks for the reps btw.


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## Blinkey (May 14, 2012)

This is a very long thread and I have not read it all, do not know if this has been mentioned or not.

However far you think the Ukraine is from us, the most important factor here is our gas tap that runs the UK is only inches away from Putins hand.


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## bauhaus (May 31, 2009)

Sway12 said:


> I really hope this doesn't end up becoming a genuine global conflict. It starts small but then escalates
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads
> 
> anyone seen that? Similar events led up to global thermo-nuclear war. I know it's a film, but we are a ****ing retarded species and it's not out of the question.


Threads is brilliant. I remember watching that when it first aired on the bbc and seen it a few times since.

A very realistic portrayal of nuclear war.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

hope there is a War, cause there hasn't been a decent War film made in awhile


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

Carbon-12 said:


> Not necessarily Hitler but quite of a dictator himself...
> 
> Also the police was shooting at people under presidential orders, which were probably given to that doll of a president they had by no other than Putin himself. Thank god the international media made it headlines before it could get any worse; when communism fell in Bulgaria and democracy was established, the dictatorship fought until the end, they actually got the military involved by ordering them to get military tanks on the streets and shoot at protesters at which point the military stopped obeying orders.
> 
> Furthermore, Russia has absolutely no right to take control of other countries' territory under international law which is what they did using the Russian supporters and speakers in that particular area as an excuse which is very transparent in my opinion. It's like the UK getting into a conflict with Afghanistan and the Afghani army sending troops over here to protect people that speak their language in areas that the majority of population is afghani like Ilford in London which is absolutely ridiculous...


The thing is the resident population makes the territory. The Scottish referendum is a useful example - its only up to Scottish people to choose whether to stay or go, even though we are all one country. Same with Crimea - the people who live there are choosing to basically say they are Russian and they want to be with Russia.


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

dbaird said:


> This comparison has been made before, by people like Stephen Fry in letters to the PM..
> 
> He is just looking for an excuse to kick off really.. He started over Syria.. now he is just flexing his muscles with Ukraine.. Poland are moving tanks to the borders..
> 
> You are sound like you have some alignment with Putin and Russia


America started it over Syria by backing the rebels along with their Qatari buddies. Russia simply stopped them furthering the killing by dropping bombs.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

frenchpress said:


> The thing is the resident population makes the territory. The Scottish referendum is a useful example - its only up to Scottish people to choose whether to stay or go, even though *we are all one country*. Same with Crimea - the people who live there are choosing to basically say they are Russian and they want to be with Russia.


is this post some kind of a joke or something? :confused1: :lol: absolutely ridiculous...

it's like Ilford in London saying they want to be Pakistani/Afgahni territory because over 40 percent of the population is from those two countries..


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## D3RF (Apr 15, 2011)

war = profit for the already rich.

they just need to find a way to get public onside. as they have been doing with all the countries invaded over the last few years...

messing with russia/china on the other hand would be quite dangerous imo so leave russia/ukraine to it.


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

Blinkey said:


> This is a very long thread and I have not read it all, do not know if this has been mentioned or not.
> 
> However far you think the Ukraine is from us, the most important factor here is our gas tap that runs the UK is only inches away from Putins hand.


let him turn the cnut off, i cant afford to put it on anyway..


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Our government is really clutching at straws at the minute..Putin tells Ukraine they have until 3am to surrender or they will launch a military strike and our governments responce is " You have 48 hours to withdraw or we kick you out of our group and we want talk to you anymore" lol

I bet he's sat there laughing is head off saying "So!" It's pretty obvious he dosnt give a **** and our threats (if you can call them that) are falling on death ears


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

Carbon-12 said:


> is this post some kind of a joke or something? :confused1: :lol: absolutely ridiculous...
> 
> it's like Ilford in London saying they want to be Pakistani/Afgahni territory because over 40 percent of the population is from those two countries..


Like the British Army going into Northern Ireland to look after the Protestants...

Like the British Army going to the Falklands...

Crimea for most of history was party of Russia. Most people living on the bit of land called Crimea consider themselves Russian. It is nothing like the Afghan or Pakistani example.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

frenchpress said:


> Like the British Army going into Northern Ireland to look after the Protestants...
> 
> Like the British Army going to the Falklands...
> 
> Crimea for most of history was party of Russia. Most people living on the bit of land called Crimea consider themselves Russian. It is nothing like the Afghan or Pakistani example.


It's a completely different story mate... The Falklands are an actual British territory and therefore the United Kingdom was obligated to protect them when Argentina invaded with the intentions of claiming them as theirs (you can look up the details on the internet if you want to find out more as I don't really know much about it).

Anyway, we all have opinions and I respect yours... Though it's very clear to the whole world that Russia is at fault and hopefully everyone will do their part to make sure this doesn't go any further. All permanent members of the United Nation's security council, including China, agreed and told the Russians to respect Ukraine's territory so this really should be enough to convince everyone!


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Fcuk it, **** happens, not much I can do.

All you 18/19 yr olds will get called up first lol, must be twitching if your national insurance number ends in 'A'!


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> The thing is the resident population makes the territory. The Scottish referendum is a useful example - its only up to Scottish people to choose whether to stay or go, even though we are all one country. Same with Crimea - the people who live there are choosing to basically say they are Russian and they want to be with Russia.


FFS there are some real pearls on this forum

are you from england ??


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

As a few people have said - Ukraine is largely Russian anyway; and Putin has a very vested interest in keeping it close because there is part of Ukraine that wants in to the EU. Which is fine.....unless they then become part of NATO as well....and then it's not so fine. It would be akin to having a US state turned into a Russian ally. I can't imagien the US would sit well with that......

This lays out teh problems quite well; http://jackmatlock.com/2014/03/ukraine-the-price-of-internal-division/

The problem of course is - nobody seems to be asking the people what they want. It's all political manouevering for personal or national gain.


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Looks like it might be dying down a bit anyway, Putin has ordered most of the troops back. A lot still occupies Crimea but it's not looking like there will be a military attack now


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## josephbloggs (Sep 29, 2013)

western media is a work of art. we frequently get involved in internal disputes of sovereign nations thousands of miles away, Libya and Syria to name a couple recent ones. we invade and occupy a sovereign nation on the false premise they have weapons of mass destruction and that's all fair game. but everyone is up in arms because russia decides to intervene in a conflict right on their doorstep with a nation they have intrinsic links with.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Ukraine is largely Russian anyway


rubbish - many many giving opiunions - and lots and lots of quotes

have you actually ever been to the Ukraine ????


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## paullen (Sep 27, 2010)

There are a lot of English in Spain.... It's sunnier too, time to move the troops in!


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

josephbloggs said:


> western media is a work of art. we frequently get involved in internal disputes of sovereign nations thousands of miles away, Libya and Syria to name a couple recent ones. we invade and occupy a sovereign nation on the false premise they have weapons of mass destruction and that's all fair game. but everyone is up in arms because russia decides to intervene in a conflict right on their doorstep with a nation they have intrinsic links with.


Nail on the head.


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## benki11 (Sep 17, 2010)

Nothing happens !!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

josephbloggs said:


> western media is a work of art. we frequently get involved in internal disputes of sovereign nations thousands of miles away, Libya and Syria to name a couple recent ones. we invade and occupy a sovereign nation on the false premise they have weapons of mass destruction and that's all fair game. but everyone is up in arms because russia decides to intervene in a conflict right on their doorstep with a nation they have intrinsic links with.


Well said.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

benki11 said:


> Nothing happens !!


Yep, storm in a teacup.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

EU, UN, NATO, all have nothing that could hurt Russia really.

makes me laugh how they try to act hard on TV but they have only empty threats, why, cus Russia controls Europes gas supplies aswell as oil, and have billlions in the London Stock Market. Putin can switch this country off with a click on his fingers.

Russia has all the cards on this one. Best leave them to it TBH.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

As predicted by me earlier in the thread....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26418664


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> EU, UN, NATO, all have nothing that could hurt Russia really.
> 
> makes me laugh how they try to act hard on TV but they have only empty threats, why, cus Russia controls Europes gas supplies aswell as oil, and have billlions in the London Stock Market. Putin at switch this control off with a click on his fingers.
> 
> Russia has all the cards on this one. Best leave them to it TBH.


U.N.? Theyre a bit like the Salvation Army in reality...but controlled by America. Joke of a setup.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Im not one for conspiracy theories, aheh'hem, but you can be sure that there's a lot of stockbrokers just made a horrific amount of money off this. :whistling:


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Im not one for conspiracy theories, aheh'hem, but you can be sure that there's a lot of stockbrokers just made a horrific amount of money off this. :whistling:


I was thinking that this mornign when I saw the news abotu the gas and oil prices going up. They must absolutely love this stuff........cvnts.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

mixerD1 said:


> Im not one for conspiracy theories, aheh'hem, but you can be sure that there's a lot of stockbrokers just made a horrific amount of money off this. :whistling:


Probably, but that's how they make money, by betting on which way the market will go.

Facts are a lot of our gas come from there, it's volatile out there, so it stands to reason there's a chance there could be issues with supply so other suppliers are gonna jack their prices up.

It's simple supply and demand, supply is limited, prices go up, it's not a conspiracy theory!


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

All the more reason why we should start this fracking malarkey.

It's depressing how long and how much money it takes to get projects like this just approved.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

this is why the UK cant do feck all...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26431849

we put on a brave face for the cameras but really we have no interest in pi$$ing the Russian's off lol


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

Carbon-12 said:


> It's a completely different story mate... The Falklands are an actual British territory and therefore the United Kingdom was obligated to protect them when Argentina invaded with the intentions of claiming them as theirs (you can look up the details on the internet if you want to find out more as I don't really know much about it).
> 
> Anyway, we all have opinions and I respect yours... Though it's very clear to the whole world that Russia is at fault and hopefully everyone will do their part to make sure this doesn't go any further. All permanent members of the United Nation's security council, including China, agreed and told the Russians to respect Ukraine's territory so this really should be enough to convince everyone!


To what extent is it Ukrainian territory if the majority of people there speak Russian, are ethnically Russian, want to be part of Russia, can remember a time when Crimea was part of Russia, and have lived for many generations in Crimea (e.g. always been there)? There is going to be a referendum in Crimea on the 30th March where the Crimean's can vote on whether they want to be Ukrainian or Russian. If the majority vote 'we want to be Russian', the Ukrainian government doesn't have a leg to stand on.

If everyone in this referendum voted 'no British' and then voted 'we want to be part of Argentina' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013 there could be no justification for Britain to invade it, and if everyone on the Island took Argentinean passports, the Argentinean government would be able to move its soldiers into the Falklands to protect its citizens.

In Northern Ireland the principle established in the most recent big peace accord is that NI could hold a referendum on whether they want to join the Republic of Ireland or stay in Britain permanently. Neither side have held the referendum because they are not confident they can win. But despite it technically being British territory, the principle is that if enough of the people on that bit of land want to be in the Republic of Ireland, they are entitled to be.

The international principle is basically that people have the right to self determination on the bit of land they are on and have largely always been on.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

klitcshko should come out of retirement and fight ivan drago then do a moving speech after the fight and remind everyone two guys killing each other is better than a millions guys killing each other,

problem sorted.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Jesus H you really do get some right fkcin paranoid drama queens in these threads.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

This is a pretty good summary of some of teh key issues....

http://pando.com/2014/02/24/everything-you-know-about-ukraine-is-wrong/


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

frenchpress said:


> To what extent is it Ukrainian territory if the majority of people there speak Russian, are ethnically Russian, want to be part of Russia, can remember a time when Crimea was part of Russia, and have lived for many generations in Crimea (e.g. always been there)? There is going to be a referendum in Crimea on the 30th March where the Crimean's can vote on whether they want to be Ukrainian or Russian. If the majority vote 'we want to be Russian', the Ukrainian government doesn't have a leg to stand on.
> 
> If everyone in this referendum voted 'no British' and then voted 'we want to be part of Argentina' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013 there could be no justification for Britain to invade it, and if everyone on the Island took Argentinean passports, the Argentinean government would be able to move its soldiers into the Falklands to protect its citizens.
> 
> ...


Fair enough although I don't completely agree but never mind.

There are literally hundreds of comments on the BBC website written by people that live in both Ukraine and Russia, and not even one agrees with Putin's actions, even people that live in the troubled city of Crimea!


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## Lousy_Bastard (Oct 20, 2008)

The only thing I see war doing is making certain people a fortune, and murdering a lot of innocent people, also mentally damaging the young people that go to fight these personal wars on the false pretence that they are fighting for their freedom and country B.S.

The only way you are fighting for your country is if another country is actually invading your sovereign land, the rhetoric that comes from governments all over the world is 99% crap.


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

Lousy_Bastard said:


> The only thing I see war doing is making certain people a fortune, and murdering a lot of innocent people, also mentally damaging the young people that go to fight these personal wars on the false pretence that they are fighting for their freedom and country B.S.
> 
> The only way you are fighting for your country is if another country is actually invading your sovereign land, the rhetoric that comes from governments all over the world is 99% crap.


isnt that what happened..?


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

banjodeano said:


> isnt that what happened..?


Nope Crimea is Russias land.


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

Ahal84 said:


> Nope Crimea is Russias land.


the last time i looked on a map it had Ukraine wrote across it...


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## fitrut (Nov 20, 2007)

Ahal84 said:


> Nope Crimea is Russias land.


since when?


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

fitrut said:


> since when?


Up until 1954. Kruschev gave crimea to Ukraine as a present.


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

huckfead said:


> Up until 1954. Kruschev gave crimea to Ukraine as a present.


but lands have changed hands since time in memorial.....

Russia have invaded a foreign land...


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## fitrut (Nov 20, 2007)

huckfead said:


> Up until 1954. Kruschev gave crimea to Ukraine as a present.


well Lithuanian's lands were up to the Black Sea some time ago but we dont go concur the world now, Lithuania also was part of Soviet Union yet again it doesnt mean land belongs to Russia. With the collapse of SSRS Crimea became part of the newly independent Ukraine so it does belong to Ukraine not Russia


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

fitrut said:


> well Lithuanian's lands were up to the Black Sea some time ago but we dont go concur the world now, Lithuania also was part of Soviet Union yet again it doesnt mean land belongs to Russia. With the collapse of SSRS Crimea became part of the newly independent Ukraine so it does belong to Ukraine not Russia


I agree. For what its worth, russians are fraudsters.. out and out. I know Ukraine very well, and know what is going on with vladolf hitlers games. Hypocrissy - the worst anyone could ever see and hear is seeping out from every crevice in russia and also the morons who are pro russian (why don't they just **** off over there, if they don't want Ukraine?).


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

banjodeano said:


> but lands have changed hands since time in memorial.....
> 
> Russia have invaded a foreign land...


I agree. At the moment, they have the hypocritical gall to shoot with 'the west invaded Iraq, Afghanistan etc...'. Stupid russian ****ers forget they invaded afghanistan and got slaughtered!. I remember adolf hitler had the most powerful army in the world at one time, until he tried to set foot on british soil, which he failed in and subsequently we went after him. There is no reason why, if the afghans can batter russia, we can't.


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

huckfead said:


> I agree. At the moment, they have the hypocritical gall to shoot with 'the west invaded Iraq, Afghanistan etc...'. Stupid russian ****ers forget they invaded afghanistan and got slaughtered!. I remember adolf hitler had the most powerful army in the world at one time, until he tried to set foot on british soil, which he failed in and subsequently we went after him. There is no reason why, if the afghans can batter russia, we can't.


Lol at this post.


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

Ahal84 said:


> Lol at this post.


Can you elaborate?


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Carbon-12 said:


> Fair enough although I don't completely agree but never mind.
> 
> There are literally hundreds of comments on the BBC website written by people that live in both Ukraine and Russia, and not even one agrees with Putin's actions, even people that live in the troubled city of Crimea!


obviously there isn't, the BBC will be pro Government and there reports will reflect that


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## aysandie (Aug 4, 2012)

huckfead said:


> Can you elaborate?


You know nothing about Russia.


----------



## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

siamakdieded said:


> You know nothing about Russia.


Until you can prove this, you are talking like a grade A pr**k.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

huckfead said:


> I agree. At the moment, they have the hypocritical gall to shoot with 'the west invaded Iraq, Afghanistan etc...'. Stupid russian ****ers forget they invaded afghanistan and got slaughtered!. I remember adolf hitler had the most powerful army in the world at one time, until he tried to set foot on british soil, which he failed in and subsequently we went after him. There is no reason why, if the afghans can batter russia, we can't.


I'm not battering anyone mate and neither should you be. Christ don't you see this is about the West exploiting Eastern countries for their own gain, it's got nothing to do with democracy. Only reason Putin is doing it is because he doesn't want Crimea Westernized and scummified, good luck to him hope he wins out.

And IMO anyone who joins the UK/US military is a ****ing idiot


----------



## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

huckfead said:


> I agree. At the moment, they have the hypocritical gall to shoot with 'the west invaded Iraq, Afghanistan etc...'. Stupid russian ****ers forget they invaded afghanistan and got slaughtered!. I remember adolf hitler had the most powerful army in the world at one time, until he tried to set foot on british soil, which he failed in and subsequently we went after him. There is no reason why, if the afghans can batter russia, we can't.


so your trying to say the British Army was more powerful than Germany...think they had assistance from oth3er countries...loathe them or love them (im hoping no one loves them), the Nazi's were a quality army


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

barsnack said:


> so your trying to say the British Army was more powerful than Germany...think they had assistance from oth3er countries...loathe them or love them (im hoping no one loves them), the Nazi's were a quality army


Never said that mate. We did get supplies from the US, but we and we alone stopped the nazis getting into britain.


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

'fraid it is now looking like it will be kicking off. Just been told Ukrainian forces are now bearing down on Crimea to take russians on. Russians have been breaking into the houses of hundreds of people, children are being abused and kicking them out and smashing and setting fire to the houses. Anyone with any form of acceptance with what russia is doing is an idiot. War is a nailed on fact now.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

huckfead said:


> Never said that mate. We did get supplies from the US, but we and we alone stopped the nazis getting into britain.


might be misreading, but your comment said to me the Brits had a better army than the Nazi's...like I say, im probably looking at it wrong...although despise the Nazi's, I got a lot of admiration for their Army


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

huckfead said:


> 'fraid it is now looking like it will be kicking off. Just been told Ukrainian forces are now bearing down on Crimea to take russians on. *Russians have been breaking into the houses of hundreds of people, children are being abused and kicking them out and smashing and setting fire to the houses.* Anyone with any form of acceptance with what russia is doing is an idiot. War is a nailed on fact now.


yeah yeah heard it all before


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

I blame it on the management


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## GaryMatt (Feb 28, 2014)

The Nazi's were the only ones to almost take over the world besides Alexander the Great and Genghis Kahn. I agree with your admiration for there army. I don't think the US will aid Ukraine that much though. I hate saying it, but there's nothing to gain.


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## aysandie (Aug 4, 2012)

huckfead said:


> Until you can prove this, you are talking like a grade A pr**k.


#

You are being stupid now. Firstly the reason afghans beat Russians YEARS AGO was due to the aid of america. Simple as that, Taliban (which america created) are surviving against america because they know the topography of their homeland better than their enemies. You can not compare what happened years ago to the current Russia, the current Russia has good ties with china. TBh i can not waste my time talking to brain dead people like yourself, go read a book.

Your lack of knowledge about your homeland is embarrassing. UK did not defeat Hitler as easy as you think.Learn more about WW2 and you will realise how close the battle was. Hitler nearly won many times, he also brought a country in ruins and financial crisis to a superpower in a short amount of time. It is a disgraceful/hilarious how some people with English parents spurt out nonsense about their home country, learn about the UK how you will truly learn how great it is due to the right reasons (Such as small country had so many colonies).


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## Lousy_Bastard (Oct 20, 2008)

banjodeano said:


> isnt that what happened..?


Yes your absolutely right it is in this case, I'm have to apologise I off tracked and basically was on about Afghanistan and the likes, but your absolutely right that's what Russia is doing but most Crimeans want Russia in and as they put it that Khrushchev gave it away in the first place anyway.

Your right to point that out I never answered the question I was more talking about what parts of the west have been doing the last 15 years or so, I suppose it was a vent at stupid unnecessary conflict.

Thanks for pointing that out


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

siamakdieded said:


> #
> 
> You are being stupid now. Firstly the reason afghans beat Russians YEARS AGO was due to the aid of america. Simple as that, Taliban (which america created) are surviving against america because they know the topography of their homeland better than their enemies. You can not compare what happened years ago to the current Russia, the current Russia has good ties with china. TBh i can not waste my time talking to brain dead people like yourself, go read a book.
> 
> Your lack of knowledge about your homeland is embarrassing. UK did not defeat Hitler as easy as you think.Learn more about WW2 and you will realise how close the battle was. Hitler nearly won many times, he also brought a country in ruins and financial crisis to a superpower in a short amount of time. It is a disgraceful/hilarious how some people with English parents spurt out nonsense about their home country, learn about the UK how you will truly learn how great it is due to the right reasons (Such as small country had so many colonies).


Hitler did in fact prepare to invade England however it was never followed through as Germany were not well known for the naval abilities and as such it was always a half hearted plan as Hitler did not want to launch a full scale attack against the UK that are renowned throughout the world for our Navy. He also admired what the British had achieved with India and knew that whilst we did not have the raw materials that Germany required that we would also not take it lying down even if he could have secured air space.

As for Russia 25million civilians were killed during the war and Hitler managed to bring Germany to its knees in the process. Within the first week of invading USSR 150k Russian soldiers had been killed. The Nazi's were brutal and effective and pretty much destroyed everything they stomped through

The USSR came very close to being defeated

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/7681504/Soviet-commander-admits-USSR-came-close-to-defeat-by-Nazis.html

Hitler did get very close to beating USSR and he would have had to do that before he could take on the USA. You have to remember he had Russia on one side fighting him and the Allie countries on the other.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

DeskSitter said:


> And IMO anyone who joins the UK/US military is a ****ing idiot


Bit of a sweeping statement mate.

And which of the more noble professions might you do?

Those of us in the military mostly don't go to work indoctrinated by the illumanti or Zionist propaganda or any other bullsh1t you're about to come up with. We are just normal blokes doing a job to provide for ourselves and our families.

I have a wife and a six year old daughter. I'll be away this year from end of my until after Christmas (earliest). While you're happily sat on here talking sh1te I'll be out making sure you've got the liberty to spout the b0llocks you come out with.

And yes while that might be a bit melodramatic if you think we don't need a military to protect our interests globally then you're the real f++king idiot mate.

Would you say we don't need a military if it was 1940?

You should check your privilege mate.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> I blame it on the management


i blame it on the boogie


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Dave 0511 said:


> Bit of a sweeping statement mate.
> 
> And which of the more noble professions might you do?
> 
> ...


Yes Dave but maybe one day you might get around the fact you kill people for a living and you do it for inhumane corporations and the World Bank, you don't do it for civil liberty, democracy or any of that stuff. I hope you don't have to suffer from phycological problems in the long term from going through what you go through, in years to come and the facts become clearer to people and the truth slowly comes out as it always does, you might realize you were one of many terrorists working for and on behalf of many terrorists and the people you were killing were actually desperate, hopeless people whose lives had already been destroyed.

I'm not anti-military, I'm pro human and anti-war, never said anything about countries not needing a military you've made your own conclusions there. Check my privileges? Yeah good one, I should thank myself I live in a country that profits from murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians every year. Zionism is a very real threat, not bullsh1t. Perhaps over the years you've managed to convince yourself you're doing a service to the rest of us doing what you do? The only service you provide is to the financial and corporate elite. Why the need to mention your family? What does that have to do with it. You choose murder as a profession what do you want from me? Sympathy, awe, some kind of recognition? No mate, not when you're going around destroying peoples homes and families in these countries... Christ have you somehow convinced yourself your protecting your own by killing other people's? Really bought into the mantra haven't you. Wave that union jack for 'us' mate...

Why mention WW2, has nowt to do with the present here and now.

Sorry Dave but you gave it I'm just giving it back to you


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

DeskSitter said:


> Yes Dave but maybe one day you might get around the fact you kill people for a living and you do it for inhumane corporations and the World Bank, you don't do it for civil liberty, democracy or any of that stuff. I hope you don't have to suffer from phycological problems in the long term from going through what you go through, in years to come and the facts become clearer to people and the truth slowly comes out as it always does, you might realize you were one of many terrorists working for and on behalf of many terrorists and the people you were killing were actually desperate, hopeless people whose lives had already been destroyed.
> 
> I'm not anti-military, I'm pro human and anti-war, never said anything about countries not needing a military you've made your own conclusions there. Check my privileges? Yeah good one, I should thank myself I live in a country that profits from murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians every year. Zionism is a very real threat, not bullsh1t. Perhaps over the years you've managed to convince yourself you're doing a service to the rest of us doing what you do? The only service you provide is to the financial and corporate elite. Why the need to mention your family? What does that have to do with it. You choose murder as a profession what do you want from me? Sympathy, awe, some kind of recognition? No mate, not when you're going around destroying peoples homes and families in these countries... Christ have you somehow convinced yourself your protecting your own by killing other people's? Really bought into the mantra haven't you. Wave that union jack for 'us' mate...
> 
> ...


I expect nothing less and debate is healthy mate

I don't want sympathy or awe. Fact is mate we all live in this matrix and you being the contentious objector on a sub culture forum is doing nothing to get the world back on the rails you think it has come off.

I mention the war because it has happened and can happen again. When it does if that's in a hundred years or a thousand people of your opinion would do what?

There's no mantra to buy into mate. I am fairly high up in what I do and despite the beliefs of the David icke fraternity I've never had a clockwork orange sesh yet! Nor have I seen any lizards.

Mentioning family because without people willing to go and do these jobs and wanting to then we would have national service and people like you would be rotting in prison for objecting. So you are lucky there are people who volunteer so you can spend your time with your family.

I know I'm going to get nowhere and neither are you DS but its good to talk lol.


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## Southern Karate Guy (Feb 27, 2014)

Its just the rich and powerful playing god with peoples lives


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

DeskSitter said:


> Yes Dave but maybe one day you might get around the fact you kill people for a living and you do it for inhumane corporations and the World Bank, you don't do it for civil liberty, democracy or any of that stuff. I hope you don't have to suffer from phycological problems in the long term from going through what you go through, in years to come and the facts become clearer to people and the truth slowly comes out as it always does, you might realize you were one of many terrorists working for and on behalf of many terrorists and the people you were killing were actually desperate, hopeless people whose lives had already been destroyed.
> 
> I'm not anti-military, I'm pro human and anti-war, never said anything about countries not needing a military you've made your own conclusions there. Check my privileges? Yeah good one, I should thank myself I live in a country that profits from murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians every year. Zionism is a very real threat, not bullsh1t. Perhaps over the years you've managed to convince yourself you're doing a service to the rest of us doing what you do? The only service you provide is to the financial and corporate elite. Why the need to mention your family? What does that have to do with it. You choose murder as a profession what do you want from me? Sympathy, awe, some kind of recognition? No mate, not when you're going around destroying peoples homes and families in these countries... Christ have you somehow convinced yourself your protecting your own by killing other people's? Really bought into the mantra haven't you. Wave that union jack for 'us' mate...
> 
> ...


nice post that mate...its pretty much the same line of thought that i have, i dont think you are far away from the truth, it gives us all something to think about...


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

barsnack said:


> might be misreading, but your comment said to me the Brits had a better army than the Nazi's...like I say, im probably looking at it wrong...although despise the Nazi's, I got a lot of admiration for their Army


Bit off topic but I love a good old ww2 debate.....the wermacht of 1937-1942 were probably the greatest fighting force in the history of the world, trouble was they had a leader that believed his own hype and overextended them, they took on too much too fast and it was there downfall.

Brtitan for their part where able to contend with Germany at this time because they are and Island and had the greatest navy the world had ever seen and the worlds first IAD system!


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

eezy1 said:


> i blame it on the boogie


What about the sunshine and the moonlight?

I suppose they're just ****ing innocent and get off scot free, eh? Just makes a mockery of justice, these days, no wonder the yoof go looting...


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Dave 0511 said:



> Bit of a sweeping statement mate.
> 
> And which of the more noble professions might you do?
> 
> ...


Jeez man, why are you even replying to this fellas makebelieve?? It's always the same old fairytales with this guy...Zionism, Illuminati, the Rothschilds and all the other conspiracy bedtimestories. A few lame youtube videos and he believes in Lizard people and Area 51 aliens.

You represent your country etc....you are by default far above and better than this. Don't give him any airspace and he'll (hopefully...for the love of god please!!) dry up.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Dave 0511 said:


> I expect nothing less and debate is healthy mate
> 
> I don't want sympathy or awe. Fact is mate we all live in this matrix and you being the contentious objector on a sub culture forum is doing nothing to get the world back on the rails you think it has come off.
> 
> ...


Well I'm sorry I said that anyone who joins the military is a ****ing idiot, this is what I think but I shouldn't have said it like that. I do wonder how someone in the military sleeps at night though, because if it was me out there I'd have to dedicate hundreds of hours convincing myself I'm doing something good for humanity which would be very difficult. David Icke is right about a lot of things, obviously you take and run with one of his most bizarre notions about the reptilians and that, I know nothing about it and not really interested in that, but a lot of what he says about political agendas I think are well on the mark. I think humanity will look back on these times and think how primeval they were, constant wars, mass deception, massive ever increasing monetary debt... You're quite right I would probably be threatened with prison because I would never fight for this country... this is the system you are fighting for though you ever looked at it like that? Fighting to support a country, or countries, that intimidate and harasses when necessary to ensure self preservation of the existing corrupt and established orders.

Any way Dave I don't want you to bear a grudge against me for what I think, but can't sit passive on a topic like this while people are talking about Putin as though he is the next Hitler when the reality of the situation is so adverse to that its untrue. You keep doing what you're doing I just sincerely hope you never have to suffer, although I'm not a superstitious person I've never been quite able to convince myself it doesn't come back around ..


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

DeskSitter said:


> Yes Dave but maybe one day you might get around the fact you kill people for a living and you do it for inhumane corporations and the World Bank, you don't do it for civil liberty, democracy or any of that stuff. I hope you don't have to suffer from phycological problems in the long term from going through what you go through, in years to come and the facts become clearer to people and the truth slowly comes out as it always does, you might realize you were one of many terrorists working for and on behalf of many terrorists and the people you were killing were actually desperate, hopeless people whose lives had already been destroyed.
> 
> I'm not anti-military, I'm pro human and anti-war, never said anything about countries not needing a military you've made your own conclusions there. Check my privileges? Yeah good one, I should thank myself I live in a country that profits from murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians every year. Zionism is a very real threat, not bullsh1t. Perhaps over the years you've managed to convince yourself you're doing a service to the rest of us doing what you do? The only service you provide is to the financial and corporate elite. Why the need to mention your family? What does that have to do with it. You choose murder as a profession what do you want from me? Sympathy, awe, some kind of recognition? No mate, not when you're going around destroying peoples homes and families in these countries... Christ have you somehow convinced yourself your protecting your own by killing other people's? Really bought into the mantra haven't you. Wave that union jack for 'us' mate...
> 
> ...


Say what you think mate!

I have a lot of friends in the military and they do a sterling job. Yes they choose that occupation they get paid to do that job. Simple as that. But to say they choose an occupation to "murder" for the rich elites is beyond my comprehension.

No the OP was not about WW2 but if we did not have a military force what would have happened then?

Have you travelled much to these countries you refer to where we have helped? Have you seen the devastation first hand? Or have you like millions of others sat in front of the tv becoming an armchair critic? Without armed forces to control others from performing mass genocides or invading countries we would be ruled by another dictatorship every other year. Its our armed forces that deter stuff like that, prevent terrorism, increasing the security of the UK.

I for one would not like to live in a country that had no military force what would stop anyone from take little old UK?


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

amigamike said:


> Its just the rich and powerful playing god with peoples lives


Ya...because it really is that simple.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Bear2012 said:


> Say what you think mate!
> 
> I have a lot of friends in the military and they do a sterling job. Yes they choose that occupation they get paid to do that job. Simple as that. But to say they choose an occupation to "murder" for the rich elites is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> ...


No, he watches youtube videos. And passes on the information within them that the zionists and illuminati are hiding from you and don't want you to know maaaan!!!

You can laugh all you want, its only a matter of time before he convinces you!!


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Ya...because it really is that simple.


Cos theyre at home bored and have nothing better to do with themselves than ''play god'' with peoples lives.

It all makes sense now.


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

I have respect for those in the armed forces, worked with enough of them.

But fail to see how informed people can justify the west's military intervention in the middle east.

What have we achieved exactly? Removal of "evil" dictators?

Persecution of Christians in these areas is now out of control, and Christianity is becoming practically eliminated from the middle east.

I'm sure some on here would think that is a good thing, but the reality and truth of it is not. Islamic societies remain more moderate with a Christian presence alongside. Take that out and say hello to extremism.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Ross S said:


> Bit off topic but I love a good old ww2 debate.....the wermacht of 1937-1942 were probably the greatest fighting force in the history of the world, trouble was they had a leader that believed his own hype and overextended them, they took on too much too fast and it was there downfall.
> 
> Brtitan for their part where able to contend with Germany at this time because they are and Island and had the greatest navy the world had ever seen and the worlds first IAD system!


If z germans wanted to conquer the uk with all its might and not press on with there

March through europe africa...the uk would have been easily overrun in the end,theres no way

We could of defended all are coast line with a full on invasion.there paratroopers

Would of had a field day.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> No, he watches youtube videos. And passes on the information within them that the zionists and illuminati are hiding from you and don't want you to know maaaan!!!
> 
> You can laugh all you want, its only a matter of time before he convinces you!!


Maybe I'll wake up in ten years and realize I was completely wrong. The thing is I constantly see things about police getting more powers, surveillance increasing, even more laws coming in to monitor internet traffic, even though these things have already been happening for years... what I don't see is all these terrorists, I don't see the threats to the country. I see a growing surveillance society where civil rights are eagerly eroded and people barely being able to pay their rent.. what do you expect me to think about it? Forgive me for not being patriotic


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Bear2012 said:


> Say what you think mate!
> 
> I have a lot of friends in the military and they do a sterling job. Yes they choose that occupation they get paid to do that job. Simple as that. But to say they choose an occupation to "murder" for the rich elites is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> ...


My personal thoughts? I think the military is there to defend an attack. Where's the attack? The UK/US forces are miles away attacking these countries. How do you get from A to B? Circumstances are very often orchestrated by the attacking countries in order to justify their intervention, what do you think the WMD bullsh1t was about in Iraq? The true motivation is economic enslavement and to exploit a countries resources (if they have any)


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

DeskSitter said:


> Maybe I'll wake up in ten years and realize I was completely wrong. The thing is I constantly see things about police getting more powers, surveillance increasing, even more laws coming in to monitor internet traffic, even though these things have already been happening for years... what I don't see is all these terrorists, I don't see the threats to the country. I see a growing surveillance society where civil rights are eagerly eroded and people barely being able to pay their rent.. what do you expect me to think about it? Forgive me for not being patriotic


I don't disagree, but they did try! The Battle of Britain! It was just lot harder than hitler had anticipated and he basically got bored and called it off! Had they carried on then they would have prevailed eventually but he would have missed his date with the ussr!

to be fair they could have knocked us out of the war at Dunkirk if they had pressed the assault but hitler was still hoping for an alliance with Britain at that point so the Germans held back!


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

banjodeano said:


> but lands have changed hands since time in memorial.....
> 
> *Russia have invaded a foreign land*...


lol, something the west has been doing for decades.

makes me laugh when the west goes to war illegally no1 listens to Russia or China, then when Russia does something the west crys out.

one rule for the US and another for everyone else. Its BS

Putin and Russia have had enough of not being listened too. And now after decades of re-positioning herself she flexes her muscles and we moan about it.

the west has no interest in the Ukraine other than getting its hands on another military strategic base against an old enermy.


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

get2big said:


> I have respect for those in the armed forces, worked with enough of them.
> 
> But fail to see how informed people can justify the west's military intervention in the middle east.
> 
> ...


Well if we start to take a religious point of view the Christians were persecuting in the Middle East many years ago during the Crusades but these wars are not about religion


----------



## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

DeskSitter said:


> My personal thoughts? I think the military is there to defend an attack. Where's the attack? The UK/US forces are miles away attacking these countries. How do you get from A to B? Circumstances are very often orchestrated by the attacking countries in order to justify their intervention, what do you think the WMD bullsh1t was about in Iraq? The true motivation is economic enslavement and to exploit a countries resources (if they have any)


Attacking? What countries are we attacking? Have we declared war against these countries? The countries we are in are getting huge amounts of aide from us. Yes WMD was fabricated and it was about oil. Was that worth going to war for? Yes. Without this the world would grind to a halt and every countries resources are exploited by their own indigenous people and foreign. I work in the offshore industry and I have seen countries benefit from the money poured back in to their countries. Its countries own corruption that keeps them 3rd world


----------



## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

Ross S said:


> I don't disagree, but they did try! The Battle of Britain! It was just lot harder than hitler had anticipated and he basically got bored and called it off! Had they carried on then they would have prevailed eventually but he would have missed his date with the ussr!
> 
> to be fair they could have knocked us out of the war at Dunkirk if they had pressed the assault but hitler was still hoping for an alliance with Britain at that point so the Germans held back!


Quoted the wrong comment there.....


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)




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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> Maybe I'll wake up in ten years and realize I was completely wrong. The thing is I constantly see things about police getting more powers, surveillance increasing, even more laws coming in to monitor internet traffic, even though these things have already been happening for years... what I don't see is all these terrorists, I don't see the threats to the country. I see a growing surveillance society where civil rights are eagerly eroded and people barely being able to pay their rent.. what do you expect me to think about it? Forgive me for not being patriotic


You are not a criminal so the police getting more powers (which I do not see BTW) or increased surveillance should have no negative affect on your life.

Any law abiding citizen should welcome things like this.

Of course you don't see terrorists...they don't go around advertising themselves...you didn't foresee, nor did many others foresee bombs being set off around London a couple of years ago either.

London is now recognised as the most CCTV'ed city in the world...as a regular visitor there this makes me feel happy and secure in going there. Just my own tuppence.

What exactly do civil rights entitle you to that you feel you are being denied?

Who determines civil rights?

Where is the erosion in them, how has this erosion affected the quality of your life?

Why are the people who think civil rights are being eroded in such a small minority?

Serious questions.


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## bauhaus (May 31, 2009)

mal said:


> If z germans wanted to conquer the uk with all its might and not press on with there
> 
> March through europe africa...the uk would have been easily overrun in the end,theres no way
> 
> ...


Bang on. If Hitler had listened to his strategic officers, by solely focussing on the UK, they would of eventually neutralised British resistance, followed by a swift land invasion, as opposed to declaring war on the Soviet Union at the same time which was their undoing.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

mixerD1 said:


> Jeez man, why are you even replying to this fellas makebelieve?? It's always the same old fairytales with this guy...Zionism, Illuminati, the Rothschilds and all the other conspiracy bedtimestories. A few lame youtube videos and he believes in Lizard people and Area 51 aliens.
> 
> You represent your country etc....you are by default far above and better than this. Don't give him any airspace and he'll (hopefully...for the love of god please!!) dry up.


I know what you mean mate and I'm sure Desksitters opinions and attitudes won't change not should they. Some mutual respect wouldn't be out of place. That said I don't think every one needs to bow down to those of us in the armed forces. It's just a job. But "murderer" was a bit strong lol. Yes the bottom line is we have the capability and legal stand point to take life on rare occasions but weigh this up against humanitarian relief, disaster relief etc etc and I think on the whole let's say in the last 12months we have saved far more lives than we've taken.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

@DeskSitter

If it comes back around then I'll deal with that mate. I sleep very soundly as it happens and of course I hold no grudge.

I think you're a bit of a kook who holds some valid points and a lot of nutty ones. You think I'm a fcukin idiot murderer lol.

Doesn't stop us having a polite chat and I never ever hold grudges!


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Bear2012 said:


> Attacking? What countries are we attacking? Have we declared war against these countries? The countries we are in are getting huge amounts of aide from us. Yes WMD was fabricated and it was about oil. *Was that worth going to war for? Yes*. Without this the world would grind to a halt and every countries resources are exploited by their own indigenous people and foreign. I work in the offshore industry and I have seen countries benefit from the money poured back in to their countries. Its countries own corruption that keeps them 3rd world


the deaths of over a million people, yeah definetly worth it


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

Bear2012 said:


> Well if we start to take a religious point of view the Christians were persecuting in the Middle East many years ago during the Crusades but these wars are not about religion


Lets presume the Crusades were the fault of those nasty unprovoked European Christians who attacked the poor nice loving peaceful muslims, does that make what's happening to Christian people and communities right now ok?

Is it the right thing to do to allow these minorities to be persecuted practically to the point of non-existance?

I'd recommend checking out the historical facts on the Crusades and why they started. The truth of the matter is they were defensive, just wars to liberate ancient Christian territory from Muslim invaders.

I agree with you these latest wars were never started because of religion. But religious minorities are now suffering badly as a result of our actions.


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

barsnack said:


> the deaths of over a million people, yeah definetly worth it


and what do you think would happen if oil was not produced or the supply and demand of it kept safe? We would all go back to horses and candles?


----------



## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Bear2012 said:


> and what do you think would happen if oil was not produced or the supply and demand of it kept safe? We would all go back to horses and candles?


we got by before, im sure we would have got by with out STEALING Oil....your either in denial or a fruitloop for thinking the 'War on Terror' was just


----------



## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

get2big said:


> Lets presume the Crusades were the fault of those nasty unprovoked European Christians who attacked the poor nice loving peaceful muslims, does that make what's happening to Christian people and communities right now ok?
> 
> Is it the right thing to do to allow these minorities to be persecuted practically to the point of non-existance?
> 
> ...


Not strictly true the Muslims and Jews joined forces to fight the Christians who pillaged, tortured and raped as they went along. The crusaders massacred large numbers of Jews and Muslims and Orthodox Christians. This was just the first crusade and as you may know there where 7 in total

I am not saying the Crusades were right no more than fanatics who support the extremist Muslims. However if you know anything about the Quran you will know that it recites passages from the bible and both are tied in quite closely and the Quran quite often quotes the bible.

The Muslims have been persecuted the Jews have been persecuted and so have the Christians. It's sad that most Muslims get tarred with the same brush as the extremists and that Christians are being persecuted. Problem is in 3rd world countries is in very easy to brainwash and manipulate a community or area in to becoming a religious area that will follow a "leader" For example take Nigeria a predominantly Christian country but now the North is rapidly becoming Muslim and causing huge conflict because a group of extremist are determined to blow every thing up.

I have a large number of Muslim friends from working in those countries and they are appalled with the way these extremists treat other humans and that the Quran does not say commit murder. It is how others have interrupted it.

But sadly we digress from the OP on to a subject that is still as fresh in the news as it probably was thousands of years ago


----------



## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

barsnack said:


> we got by before, im sure we would have got by with out STEALING Oil....your either in denial or a fruitloop for thinking the 'War on Terror' was just


No I'm a realist that understand economies are driven by the black gold. Imagine your life without any mod cons because some part of oil has been used in around 98% of everything each of us own and use. Now is that denial or me being a fruitloop?

We got by before is an absurd comment to make, lets just plunge the whole world back hundreds of years

We all pretend we know what is going on whether war is just or not but opinions are like a55holes we all have one and fundamentally we don't have a clue. We recite what we think we have heard or read. Does anyone truly know what the facts or the truth is behind it all?

I agree the WMD never existed and that escapade was to protect interests in oil. Stealing oil? Oil companies may go into other countries and drill for oil. They pay for the surveying, they pay 60% gross tax on the money made, they employ and train local staff, they build communities, towns and cities spring up from around the areas. Like I said I have seen places I first went to 20 years ago for oil & gas work that are now bustling city's with infrastructures, economies that are thriving and people that would be needing hand outs working and enjoying the same type of life you and I do. Its a global business but many seem very short sighted and ready to knock and shout that oil is being stolen. I can see both sides of the argument I can see how it appears with the WMD side of it but I have also witnessed first hand the good that can come from it


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Bear2012 said:


> Hitler did in fact prepare to invade England however it was never followed through as Germany were not well known for the naval abilities and as such it was always a half hearted plan as Hitler did not want to launch a full scale attack against the UK that are renowned throughout the world for our Navy. He also admired what the British had achieved with India and knew that whilst we did not have the raw materials that Germany required that we would also not take it lying down even if he could have secured air space.
> 
> As for Russia 25million civilians were killed during the war and Hitler managed to bring Germany to its knees in the process. Within the first week of invading USSR 150k Russian soldiers had been killed. The Nazi's were brutal and effective and pretty much destroyed everything they stomped through
> 
> ...


Good post but there are a couple of points that I don't agree with... Have spoken to my grandparents about WW2 a lot of times and they have always said that when German troops were passing through Bulgaria, they were always paying the locals for stuff that they needed such as food or clothing and not once had stolen or destroyed someone's property unlike the filthy Russian troops. From uniforms to manners, everything was absolutely on point apparently which I find quite interesting but bizarre at the same time.

Also, if Hitler happened to conquer the USSR, which he came very close to as the USSR had almost signed their surrender, he would have been brought to his knees by the Americans as they almost had nuclear weapons developed.


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

Bear2012 said:


> Not strictly true the Muslims and Jews joined forces to fight the Christians who pillaged, tortured and raped as they went along. The crusaders massacred large numbers of Jews and Muslims and Orthodox Christians. This was just the first crusade and as you may know there where 7 in total
> 
> I am not saying the Crusades were right no more than fanatics who support the extremist Muslims. However if you know anything about the Quran you will know that it recites passages from the bible and both are tied in quite closely and the Quran quite often quotes the bible.
> 
> ...


What is not strictly true? your saying the Muslims never attacked Christians from the start and removed them from their native lands ? That is what triggered the very first crusades in the first place. Muslim aggression. Quite simply they started it!

It reached the point where in the end Christians could no longer sit back and allow their people to be destroyed so they defended them.


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

worth a watch there is also a part 2


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## frenchpress (Nov 22, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> 1 - You are not a criminal so the police getting more powers (which I do not see BTW) or increased surveillance should have no negative affect on your life.
> 
> Any law abiding citizen should welcome things like this.
> 
> ...


1 - The problem is the police are institutionally racist and corrupt. Every year we get police fitting up people or killing them then lying about it - to the point of fitting up a senior government minister (plebgate). They cannot be trusted.

2 - Everyone should have foreseen the 7/7 bombings - Al Queda and the other terrorist groups made it 100% clear that the consequence for American and British military presence in the Middle East would be terrorist attacks in America and Britain - that was why Blair's decision to invade Iraq was so perverse, and that is why France decided not to join in the invasion. The only piece of unexpected (that no one could have possibly foreseen) bit of terrorism in the West in the 21st century was Bretvik in Norway.

3 - Of course visitors feel safe in London. Visitors are where the money is, and the money and property is what the state protects.


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## mark22 (Jul 13, 2011)

frenchpress said:


> 1 - The problem is the police are institutionally racist and corrupt. Every year we get police fitting up people or killing them then lying about it - to the point of fitting up a senior government minister (plebgate). They cannot be trusted.
> 
> 2 - Everyone should have foreseen the 7/7 bombings - Al Queda and the other terrorist groups made it 100% clear that the consequence for American and British military presence in the Middle East would be terrorist attacks in America and Britain - that was why Blair's decision to invade Iraq was so perverse, and that is why France decided not to join in the invasion. The only piece of unexpected (that no one could have possibly foreseen) bit of terrorism in the West in the 21st century was Bretvik in Norway.
> 
> 3 - Of course visitors feel safe in London. Visitors are where the money is, and the money and property is what the state protects.


You couldn't foresee a Breivik in a progressive country like Norway?, it bred it with the close minded shut anyone down who dares to think stuff. Strangely they don't get it.


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

get2big said:


> What is not strictly true? your saying the Muslims never attacked Christians from the start and removed them from their native lands ? That is what triggered the very first crusades in the first place. Muslim aggression. Quite simply they started it!
> 
> It reached the point where in the end Christians could no longer sit back and allow their people to be destroyed so they defended them.


Don't get me wrong the Muslims did attack Christian populations as part of their quest and the crusades where a response to that. The amount of Jews Muslims and even dark skinned Christians massacred was horrendous and far greater than what the Muslims did (history proves this)

Like they say nothing like religion to incite a war and fvck me thousands of years later its still happening


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

Carbon-12 said:


> Good post but there are a couple of points that I don't agree with... Have spoken to my grandparents about WW2 a lot of times and they have always said that when German troops were passing through Bulgaria, they were always paying the locals for stuff that they needed such as food or clothing and not once had stolen or destroyed someone's property unlike the filthy Russian troops. From uniforms to manners, everything was absolutely on point apparently which I find quite interesting but bizarre at the same time.
> 
> Also, if Hitler happened to conquer the USSR, which he came very close to as the USSR had almost signed their surrender, he would have been brought to his knees by the Americans as they almost had nuclear weapons developed.


I can't really comment on the Germans behaviour I was not there! Just because you are at war does not mean you have to become inhumane!

As for the Russians well from my experience they are not the most subtle genteel considerate well mannered nation I have come across. In their view its their way or nothing


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Dave 0511 said:


> worth a watch there is also a part 2


Vice is run and controlled by American freelance journalists. Despite the fact a lot of the stuff they report on is a bit edgy and not the type of thing you'd find in the mainstream, they still have a natural biases against the East, have a look at the videos where Shane Smith went to North Korea, constantly slating it for being so backwards, ****ed up and oppressive. He made it out he was smuggled in when in actual fact he followed the same travel procedures that any 'tourist' has to follow to visit there. They don't like people criticizing the government and there's a very unhealthy political undercurrent but the entire video it's him going around slagging off everything he sees because he doesn't want to take the time to try and understand the culture, he's only interested in making the place look as unappealing and depressing as possible to the viewers. Same as the video you posted. You say I'm a wacko and then you go and post an anti-Russian video like that as if it's any more truthful than the rubbish you think I buy into it. Like I said before it's what you choose to see. While you're out there killing people just remind yourself your not doing it on my behalf, and there are a lot of people that think like me


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

DeskSitter said:


> You say I'm a wacko and then you go and post an anti-Russian video like that as if it's any more truthful than the rubbish you think I buy into it. Like I said before it's what you choose to see. While you're out there killing people just remind yourself your not doing it on my behalf, and there are a lot of people that think like me


Ds I was posting it as an interesting video not saying I agree or disagree with the content. I haven't looked for or found a pro-russian video and I'm sure that would be interesting too.

What had me being a trained murderer got to do with this video. Despite our earlier civil conversation you bringing that back into it is a bit like you're looking for confrontation. I don't go out killing people by the way. I make sure if the Russians or anyone else ever pointed an inter ballistic cruise missile at us it wouldn't actually make it here.

I said before mate what is it that you do for work? And apart from posting on subculture forums like this one how exactly are you going about changing this terrible world we live in?

Mate I just posted a bl00dy video take it or leave it lol.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Bear2012 said:


> No I'm a realist that understand economies are driven by the black gold. Imagine your life without any mod cons because some part of oil has been used in around 98% of everything each of us own and use. Now is that denial or me being a fruitloop?
> 
> We got by before is an absurd comment to make, lets just plunge the whole world back hundreds of years
> 
> ...


The money doesn't trickle down like that. Why does poverty sky-rocket in countries that accept loans from the IMF/World Bank. You only see what you see because you stay in safe parts of the countries you work in. The parts they don't want you to see are out of the way and people are dying daily. The US is renowned for having absolutely ZERO respect for environmental protection in the countries they attack and exploit. The industries they finance **** out industrial waste completely unregulated and near the most impoverished areas.

It's also possible in this day and age to use renewable forms of energy to supply ALL of our energy needs but it doesn't happen because the oil companies have the monopoly, they make huge profits and they don't want to lose it. The don't care about the environment or people only profit


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Dave 0511 said:


> Ds I was posting it as an interesting video not saying I agree or disagree with the content. I haven't looked for or found a pro-russian video and I'm sure that would be interesting too.
> 
> What had me being a trained murderer got to do with this video. Despite our earlier civil conversation you bringing that back into it is a bit like you're looking for confrontation. I don't go out killing people by the way. I make sure if the Russians or anyone else ever pointed an inter ballistic cruise missile at us it wouldn't actually make it here.
> 
> ...


Fine


----------



## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

DeskSitter said:


> The money doesn't trickle down like that. Why does poverty sky-rocket in countries that accept loans from the IMF/World Bank. You only see what you see because you stay in safe parts of the countries you work in. The parts they don't want you to see are out of the way and people are dying daily. The US is renowned for having absolutely ZERO respect for environmental protection in the countries they attack and exploit. The industries they finance **** out industrial waste completely unregulated and near the most impoverished areas.
> 
> It's also possible in this day and age to use renewable forms of energy to supply ALL of our energy needs but it doesn't happen because the oil companies have the monopoly, they make huge profits and they don't want to lose it. The don't care about the environment or people only profit


If you had taken the time to read my previous threads you would have read that I highlighted corruption within these countries for the lack of money filtering down.

Stay in safe parts? Have you ever been to work wearing a flak jacket? Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint? Have you ever been shot at? Have you seen a mate shot and killed whilst you try to plug a hole in his chest? Don't patronise with your bull**** about working in safe fvcking places I have seen and been involved in the above whilst trying to do a job that helps powers countries and industries to have some one sit there behind a screen telling me how it really is.

Seriously I can't discuss this with you anymore you have your views based on God knows what and I have mine based on experience


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

frenchpress said:


> 1 - The problem is the police are institutionally racist and corrupt. Every year we get police fitting up people or killing them then lying about it - to the point of fitting up a senior government minister (plebgate). They cannot be trusted.
> 
> 2 - Everyone should have foreseen the 7/7 bombings - Al Queda and the other terrorist groups made it 100% clear that the consequence for American and British military presence in the Middle East would be terrorist attacks in America and Britain - that was why Blair's decision to invade Iraq was so perverse, and that is why France decided not to join in the invasion. The only piece of unexpected (that no one could have possibly foreseen) bit of terrorism in the West in the 21st century was Bretvik in Norway.
> 
> 3 - Of course visitors feel safe in London. Visitors are where the money is, and the money and property is what the state protects.


1. The police are racist and corrupt....I disagree. One or two incidences does not prove this.

2. Woulda coulda shoulda doesn't mean shyt in hindsight.

3. You just effectively agreed with me.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> *Any law abiding citizen should welcome things like this*.
> 
> London is now recognised as the most CCTV'ed city in the world...as a regular visitor there this makes me feel happy and secure in going there. Just my own tuppence.
> 
> Serious questions.


Just to pick up those two points......

The first one assumes that the people using those powers are doing so in a law abiding manner. That has already been proven wrong with many councils abusing the powers available to them to snoop into people's lives. Theres is a difference between increasing surveillance for safety's sake and doing so in a manner that is intrusive and unecessary. I was stopped recently under the prevention of terrorism act...at a train station...by police with sniffer dogs...looking for drugs. Now let's assume I had drugs on me, let's assume I had some cannabis on me....they would have arrested me havign completed a stop and search that would eb illegal under other legislation. You may argue - but you had an illegal substance on you - but the fact remains...if you're going to adhere to the law...then all parties must adhere to it. They used terrorism legislation as an excuse to stop and search people to gett their arrest rates up. That's it. This is a local station serving mainly commuters. Hardly a hot bed of drug dealing activity. Apparently they got one arrest out ofthe day. One. But they stopped and searched over 600 seemingly law-abiding people on their way to work. That is a misappropriation of the law and the powers they have been given to *uphold* the law.

It is a small step. But a series of small steps leads us very quickly from that to a more draconian state. For instance - certain nordic countries where they can pick you up off the street and take you into custody for testing...for steroids...on teh premise that you are "big" and look like a steroid user. That's a result of increased surveillance. Welcoming it with open arms and no testing or questioning of it's limits seems naive.

I don't feel in the slightest bit safer because Lonodn has a mess of CCTV's. I lived there for nearly ten years and I can assure you they don't make the place any safer whatsoever.


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## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

imagine what america would do if there was an armed uprising against their government....you guessed it they would quash it just as the Ukrainians did/attempted.

it annoys me how the US take such a moral high ground when there just as bad as everyone else.

every country they have "helped" is now in tatters yeh they wernt great before under a dictator but i bet hey were alot better than the crumbling economies and social structures that have been left look at libya hasnt exported oil since


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## Ahal84 (Jun 2, 2010)

ASOC5 said:


> imagine what america would do if there was an armed uprising against their government....you guessed it they would quash it just as the Ukrainians did/attempted.
> 
> it annoys me how the US take such a moral high ground when there just as bad as everyone else.
> 
> every country they have "helped" is now in tatters yeh they wernt great before under a dictator but i bet hey were alot better than the crumbling economies and social structures that have been left look at libya hasnt exported oil since


Great post. If Russia does something OMG, they cant do that or what bAstards, evil ruskies.

Hypocrits (US and UK)


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

kuju said:


> Just to pick up those two points......
> 
> The first one assumes that the people using those powers are doing so in a law abiding manner. That has already been proven wrong with many councils abusing the powers available to them to snoop into people's lives. Theres is a difference between increasing surveillance for safety's sake and doing so in a manner that is intrusive and unecessary. I was stopped recently under the prevention of terrorism act...at a train station...by police with sniffer dogs...looking for drugs. Now let's assume I had drugs on me, let's assume I had some cannabis on me....they would have arrested me havign completed a stop and search that would eb illegal under other legislation. You may argue - but you had an illegal substance on you - but the fact remains...if you're going to adhere to the law...then all parties must adhere to it. They used terrorism legislation as an excuse to stop and search people to gett their arrest rates up. That's it. This is a local station serving mainly commuters. Hardly a hot bed of drug dealing activity. Apparently they got one arrest out ofthe day. One. But they stopped and searched over 600 seemingly law-abiding people on their way to work. That is a misappropriation of the law and the powers they have been given to *uphold* the law.
> 
> ...


Ok...well that's a sh*tty way to set things up in fairness. Did this happen on just the one day or is it done on an ongoing basis...like once a week or month or is it happening continuously?


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

kuju said:


> Just to pick up those two points......
> 
> The first one assumes that the people using those powers are doing so in a law abiding manner. That has already been proven wrong with many councils abusing the powers available to them to snoop into people's lives. Theres is a difference between increasing surveillance for safety's sake and doing so in a manner that is intrusive and unecessary. I was stopped recently under the prevention of terrorism act...at a train station...by police with sniffer dogs...looking for drugs. Now let's assume I had drugs on me, let's assume I had some cannabis on me....they would have arrested me havign completed a stop and search that would eb illegal under other legislation. You may argue - but you had an illegal substance on you - but the fact remains...if you're going to adhere to the law...then all parties must adhere to it. They used terrorism legislation as an excuse to stop and search people to gett their arrest rates up. That's it. This is a local station serving mainly commuters. Hardly a hot bed of drug dealing activity. Apparently they got one arrest out ofthe day. One. But they stopped and searched over 600 seemingly law-abiding people on their way to work. That is a misappropriation of the law and the powers they have been given to *uphold* the law.
> 
> ...


Good post . Its a slippery slope we are on right now, when too much power and control is given to those in authority, the point comes where the people need to be protected from government.


----------



## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Ok...well that's a sh*tty way to set things up in fairness. Did this happen on just the one day or is it done on an ongoing basis...like once a week or month or is it happening continuously?


Which bit? If you mean the dogs at teh station...i've had that probably half a dozen times in teh past 2 years, mostly round here but also at stations elsewhere, including London. Friends of mine who travel round teh country a lot more than i do have had it a little more. Seems to come in waves though. My real issue with it is the fact that they are hidign behind a piece of legislation that they know the media will support. The war against terror.....coming to a train station near you to make you feel safer. Err...no it doesn't. It makes me feel quite disturbed when I have to walk through a gradually narrowing funnel of police in flak jackets and police dogs. Add in the many instances of councils using similar legislation and powers to snoop on people...which admittedly has been highlighted as an abuse of their powers and in some places they have had their wrists slapped....but it hasn't stopped people being effectively spied on.

The idea that a law abiding citizen has nothing to fear if they have done nothign wrong assumes that everything they currently enjoy doing will remain legitimate, that the people exercising those powers are themselcves law abiding and that those laws are completely just. For instance - a lot of the stuff that's come out of teh Edward Snowden case has revealed widespread monitoring of personal emails, even hacking into webcams....which I would argue is a gross invasion of privacy without due cause. But...crucially....there is legislation to allow it. Obama has said the NSA worked within the law....it's just that the laws they used allowed them to do those things.

I have no problem with targeted security and surveillance but I absolutely believe it should nto infringe personal privacy without clear and due cause. But that's obviously a very fine line to walk!

If you meant the nordic thing........ that's been standard practice for some time in some places. Scary huh?


----------



## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

What i find surprising (if the bbc reports are accurate) is the Russian general publics appetite for an armed conflict with Ukraine, in this day and age! Soviet era agression is still alive and well it seems!


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

ASOC5 said:


> imagine what america would do if there was an armed uprising against their government....you guessed it they would quash it just as the Ukrainians did/attempted.
> 
> it annoys me how the US take such a moral high ground when there just as bad as everyone else.
> 
> every country they have "helped" is now in tatters yeh they wernt great before under a dictator but i bet hey were alot better than the crumbling economies and social structures that have been left look at libya hasnt exported oil since


it's not quite the same situation......it would be more comparable to there being an armed uprising against the government in Mexico and the US intervening militarily.... i do agree that they would certainly, but i doubt very much they woud then try an annex a part of Mexico in the way Russia are trying to annex a part of the Ukraine!


----------



## Guest (Mar 12, 2014)

There is an awful lot more going on here than people realise, it's not just one country picking on another.

It's about rich bankers and the puppet masters behind western governments running the show having ZERO influence in Russia or China. It's a real spanner in the works to their master plan of one world goverment and they're not going to let anything get in the way of that even if it means war.


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## Xelibrium (May 7, 2013)

Prepare for war!

HAROO HAROOO

(sorry watched new 300 sunday  )


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## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

Ross S said:


> it's not quite the same situation......it would be more comparable to there being an armed uprising against the government in Mexico and the US intervening militarily.... i do agree that they would certainly, but i doubt very much they woud then try an annex a part of Mexico in the way Russia are trying to annex a part of the Ukraine!


Crimea was originally russian and is full of ethnic russians who class themselves as russian

Change Crimea for the Falklands (island that classes itself as british) and everyone has a different view argentina has sovereign right over the falklands but there ours because the people want it to be....Ukraine has sovereign right over Crimea but they want to be russian

Double standards and western interference


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

ASOC5 said:


> Crimea was originally russian and is full of ethnic russians who class themselves as russian
> 
> Change Crimea for the Falklands (island that classes itself as british) and everyone has a different view argentina has sovereign right over the falklands but there ours because the people want it to be....Ukraine has sovereign right over Crimea but they want to be russian
> 
> Double standards and western interference


Fair point about the ethnic Russian population, but Crimea hasnt always been Russian....it was part of the Soviet Union and before that it was part of the Russian Empire.....and before that it was part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.....and before that it was part of the Mongol Crimean Khanate... territory used to change hands often before the idea of nationalism became prevelant in our society.

Go back far enough and England was part of the Carolingian Empire and the Governent and nobility spoke French and considered themsleves Frenchmen.

Ukraine itself is inextricably tied to the idea of Russianness, Kievan Rus was where the Russian state and orthodox religion began but that doesnt mean in this day and age it ok to go annexing soveriegn territory from other countries! i do agree it's a double standard for the west to speak out about it as they have been meddling for years

Also, a countries Soveriegn Territory is a part of it's internationaly recognised borders, the Falklands hasnt been part of Argentina's for well over 100 years!

And if the ethnic russians in crimea wanted to be part of Russia so much why has this issue never come up before? why has there never been a referendum before now?


----------



## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

Ross S said:


> Fair point about the ethnic Russian population, but Crimea hasnt always been Russian....it was part of the Soviet Union and before that it was part of the Russian Empire.....and before that it was part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.....and before that it was part of the Mongol Crimean Khanate... territory used to change hands often before the idea of nationalism became prevelant in our society.
> 
> Go back far enough and England was part of the Carolingian Empire and the Governent and nobility spoke French and considered themsleves Frenchmen.
> 
> ...


fair point but if land has always been passed about whats the difference now its always happened

with regards to the referendum presume it has never come up before because Ukraine was happily and merrily running alongside Russia until the country was upheaved with half wanting western principles and half happy with the way it was ??

i dont know just speculating

either way.......lets face it no sanctions will be put in place by us because Putin has his finger on the switch that can turn of our gas which runs a 1/3 of our country


----------



## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

ASOC5 said:


> fair point but if land has always been passed about whats the difference now its always happened
> 
> with regards to the referendum presume it has never come up before because Ukraine was happily and merrily running alongside Russia until the country was upheaved with half wanting western principles and half happy with the way it was ??
> 
> ...


Yeah, you are probably right about the referendum, i just get the feeling Putin doesnt give a damn about the ethnic Russians in Crimea and the whole thing has just been a play to keep Sevastopol in Russian hands, but yeah we will do nothing, he holds all the cards!


----------



## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

cooltt said:


> There is an awful lot more going on here than people realise, it's not just one country picking on another.
> 
> It's about rich bankers and the puppet masters behind western governments running the show having ZERO influence in Russia or China. It's a real spanner in the works to their master plan of one world goverment and they're not going to let anything get in the way of that even if it means war.


Surely there's got to be some aliens or lizards involved?

Or alien lizards, I suppose.


----------



## Guest (Mar 12, 2014)

Jaff0 said:


> Surely there's got to be some aliens or lizards involved?
> 
> Or alien lizards, I suppose.


Nah dude they're not involved with this one, it's too petty.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Jaff0 said:


> Surely there's got to be some aliens or lizards involved?
> 
> Or alien lizards, I suppose.


Love it...


----------



## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

kuju said:


> Which bit? If you mean the dogs at teh station...i've had that probably half a dozen times in teh past 2 years, mostly round here but also at stations elsewhere, including London. Friends of mine who travel round teh country a lot more than i do have had it a little more. Seems to come in waves though. My real issue with it is the fact that they are hidign behind a piece of legislation that they know the media will support. The war against terror.....coming to a train station near you to make you feel safer. Err...no it doesn't. It makes me feel quite disturbed when I have to walk through a gradually narrowing funnel of police in flak jackets and police dogs. Add in the many instances of councils using similar legislation and powers to snoop on people...which admittedly has been highlighted as an abuse of their powers and in some places they have had their wrists slapped....but it hasn't stopped people being effectively spied on.
> 
> The idea that a law abiding citizen has nothing to fear if they have done nothign wrong assumes that everything they currently enjoy doing will remain legitimate, that the people exercising those powers are themselcves law abiding and that those laws are completely just. For instance - a lot of the stuff that's come out of teh Edward Snowden case has revealed widespread monitoring of personal emails, even hacking into webcams....which I would argue is a gross invasion of privacy without due cause. But...crucially....there is legislation to allow it. Obama has said the NSA worked within the law....it's just that the laws they used allowed them to do those things.
> 
> ...


Totally on the same wavelength as you, it's bizarre that some people are happy to willingly let themselves be molested in public by a monkey in a uniform. I do often wonder if they put something in the drinking water, besides fluoride of course which is actually a toxin and has been reported as having sedentary effects even at relatively small doses, that is making people more submissive to the onslaught of covert oppression.

I mean Jesus christ even youtube wants to know where you live before it allows you to watch a video. Ever tried using an anonymous browser, see how far you get


----------



## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

get2big said:


> Good post . Its a slippery slope we are on right now, when too much power and control is given to those in authority, the point comes where the people need to be protected from government.


Why do you think they are pushing for a blanket gun ban in the US? When the government eventually goes tyrannical, which WILL happen the less guns in the civilian domain = less resistance to government force = easier to murder


----------



## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeskSitter said:


> Why do you think they are pushing for a blanket gun ban in the US? When the government eventually goes tyrannical, which WILL happen the less guns in the civilian domain = less resistance to government force = easier to murder


Never ascribe to malice, what could be explained as incompetence.

Why does such a drive have to be some big conspiracy, intended as a premeditated assault on society? It's probably purely political bent, or self-righteousness.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Jaff0 said:


> Never ascribe to malice, what could be explained as incompetence.
> 
> Why does such a drive have to be some big conspiracy, intended as a premeditated assault on society? It's probably purely political bent, or self-righteousness.


Malice or incompetence, the end result is that the people suffer as they always do so what does it matter


----------



## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeskSitter said:


> Malice or incompetence, the end result is that the people suffer as they always do so what does it matter


It's just this notion of "When the government eventually goes tyrannical, which WILL happen" that's just seeming so spurious.

Why will that happen - and if it's going to, why not already? Because some Americans own guns?

Yes, the big T has and does get expoited - and yes, governments do snoop. But never have the public, in western democracies have more liberty, and never have the politicos been more accountable. This notion that we're all just a biscuit away from being goose-stepped to the gulags just doesn't withstand scrutiny, it's all just so selective bias.


----------



## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Jaff0 said:


> It's just this notion of "When the government eventually goes tyrannical, which WILL happen" that's just seeming so spurious.
> 
> Why will that happen - and if it's going to, why not already? Because some Americans own guns?
> 
> Yes, the big T has and does get expoited - and yes, governments do snoop. But never have the public, in western democracies have more liberty, and never have the politicos been more accountable. This notion that we're all just a biscuit away from being goose-stepped to the gulags just doesn't withstand scrutiny, it's all just so selective bias.


Perhaps. I'm not so sure to be honest, we still have the monetary system to abolish and you can imagine the upheaval that's going to come from that alone let alone all the other possibilities that will continue to just suddenly open up via new and emerging technology. We may as well be living in 1850 for what it's worth. Still such a long way to go


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## Jaff0 (Oct 3, 2008)

DeskSitter said:


> Perhaps. I'm not so sure to be honest, we still have the monetary system to abolish


That will never happen in your lifetime, if ever.



DeskSitter said:


> and you can imagine the upheaval that's going to come from that alone


So zero, then.



DeskSitter said:


> let alone all the other possibilities that will continue to just suddenly open up via new and emerging technology. We may as well be living in 1850 for what it's worth. Still such a long way to go


Indeed, full of whimsical crazy, idealistic dreams - which - by all means. It's just the presentation of it as certainty.

Of course, the greys may colonise tomorrow, in which case, all bets are off - and if all bets are off "There can't be any ****ing money, can there."

My guess is they'll come for all the beautiful ones, in which case, I'm proper ****ed, with probes and shit. All that implant business. And my life and sanity will be totally ruined, 'cos every other ****er will never believe me, and assume I'm making it all up.

Bastards.

Now, where was I - oh yes, the Russia / Ukraine situation...


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> Perhaps. I'm not so sure to be honest, we still have the monetary system to abolish and you can imagine the upheaval that's going to come from that alone let alone all the other possibilities that will continue to just suddenly open up via new and emerging technology. We may as well be living in 1850 for what it's worth. Still such a long way to go


Your sense of despair for the world is making you come across a very unhappy individual. Could you not put your thoughts and energies into something more beneficial than conspiracy theories?


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Jaff0 said:


> That will never happen in your lifetime, if ever.
> 
> So zero, then.
> 
> ...


I know it won't happen in our life times, doesn't mean its not worth thinking about.

Nicely brought back on topic anyway


----------



## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Your sense of despair for the world is making you come across a very unhappy individual. Could you not put your thoughts and energies into something more beneficial than conspiracy theories?


I don't put much energy at all into conspiracy theories if you noticed, I mainly skirt around the issues, incorporate various bits and pieces. I'll have days where I read about secret organizations, soaring cancer rates, environmental destruction, Zionism, that sort of thing but for the most part I'm working. It actually gives me a bit of comfort to know that where I am on the economic food chain really doesn't matter because everyone is ****ed in the end, if things carry on as they are that is


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

DeskSitter said:


> I don't put much energy at all into conspiracy theories if you noticed, I mainly skirt around the issues, incorporate various bits and pieces. I'll have days where I read about secret organizations, soaring cancer rates, environmental destruction, Zionism, that sort of thing but for the most part I'm working. It actually gives me a bit of comfort to know that where I am on the economic food chain really doesn't matter because everyone is ****ed in the end, if things carry on as they are that is


Ya, that's the despair I was talking about right there.

I've read holocaust survivor stories with more optimism in them than you have..some of them are even still alive and happy.

Ah well, whatever floats your boat.


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## Ross S (Jan 31, 2014)

Apparently Russian forces have seized a village in Ukraine proper, under the pretext of protecting a gas terminal. Strikingly similar to the way the Germans used to start an invasion in the late 30's!


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Well it's looking possible Putin wants to extend even further now..Apparently thousands of Russians have been deployed to the south east borders of the Ukraine now, on a "training" exercise.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Fishheadsoup said:


> Well it's looking possible Putin wants to extend even further now..Apparently thousands of Russians have been deployed to the south east borders of the Ukraine now, on a "training" exercise.


And he probably will simply because the West doesn't have any obligations to protect Ukraine. Bet the Ukrainians now wish that they didn't transfer the nuclear war heads to Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed.

Really eager to see what will happen in the next few months; probably won't be that interesting as Putin has balls this big ..


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Carbon-12 said:


> probably won't be that interesting as Putin has balls this big ..


I'd say he's got bigger balls than any leader in the west. He knows the west is to scared to go to war, because of the possibility of it turning into a nuclear war. So he will continue to do what he wants. We were fast to jump into Afghanista-Iraq-Syria and so on, but when it comes to a nuclear power, I know let's just threaten to not be there friends anymore and kick them out of our group lol


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Fishheadsoup said:


> I'd say he's got bigger balls than any leader in the west. He knows the west is to scared to go to war, because of the possibility of it turning into a nuclear war. So he will continue to do what he wants. We were fast to jump into Afghanista-Iraq-Syria and so on, but when it comes to a nuclear power, I know let's just threaten to not be there friends anymore and kick some them out of our group lol


I don't agree with that mate! Why doesn't he try to take over a city in a country that's a member of Nato or is firmly backed up by the Americans? The west has no reason to go to war as they don't have any obligations to Ukraine. Also, I think that history has already taught us which country has the biggest balls and that ain't Russia I'm afraid... Just look at the Cuban missile crisis, it was Khrushchev that backed down, not Kennedy...

There will probably never be a nuclear war, there are enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet 10 times over... (read a very good article on what will happen if there is a nuclear war, can't find the link now though, will post if I do. really interesting read)


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

johnnya said:


> My first thought was thank fook its miles away


same


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## jim2509 (Dec 30, 2010)

The Russian Army is a paper tiger and would fair pretty badly against any modern equipped European Nations Army. The Russian Navy is on the scrap heap it's pride of the fleet having to be towed to South America recently on exercise as it broke down. The Russian Airforce is probably the best out of the three branches but not upto NATO's standard. All in all I would not be losing any sleep over the Russian Army acting all hard in the crimea. It's a bit different comrade when the other side quite fancy a scrap and are well equipped to do so. Not the kind of fight the Russian Army likes to pick these days.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

jim2509 said:


> The Russian Army is a paper tiger and would fair pretty badly against any modern equipped European Nations Army. The Russian Navy is on the scrap heap it's pride of the fleet having to be towed to South America recently on exercise as it broke down. The Russian Airforce is probably the best out of the three branches but not upto NATO's standard. All in all I would not be losing any sleep over the Russian Army acting all hard in the crimea. It's a bit different comrade when the other side quite fancy a scrap and are well equipped to do so. Not the kind of fight the Russian Army likes to pick these days.


^^

Just read an article yesterday that the Italian Navy alone was capable of destroying the entire Russian Navy lol. The only decent thing that the Russians have is probably their defence systems and a few new modifications of otherwise old aircraft, everything else is soviet era old and rusty junk. After all, Putin does have the reputation of putting government money in his pocket rather than maintaining and developing new ships, aircraft, weapons etc. No wonder that the bastard is worth 70 billion dollars...


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Why do people refer to how week Russia's army is compared to other countries? They are the biggest country in the world and have more nuclear power than most other countries on the planet. If another world war came of this, infantry would be irrelevant as it would be a nuclear holocaust!

The reason he has not tried to take over a member of "nato" as you put it, is obvious. He's wanting to rebuild the Soviet Union and this was his first step. We have more reason to intervene in this then we did with Syria, as this directly effects our energy prices and relationes with Poland.

America and Britan are in massive debt, we have thousands of troops engaged in conflices in Afghanistan,Iraq,Syria amongst others. We literally can not afford another War and Putin knows this.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

Fishheadsoup said:


> Why do people refer to how week Russia's army is compared to other countries? They are the biggest country in the world and have more nuclear power than most other countries on the planet. If another world war came of this, infantry would be irrelevant as it would be a nuclear holocaust!
> 
> The reason he has not tried to take over a member of "nato" as you put it, is obvious. He's wanting to rebuild the Soviet Union and this was his first step. We have more reason to intervene in this then we did with Syria, as this directly effects our energy prices and relationes with Poland.
> 
> America and Britan are in massive debt, we have thousands of troops engaged in conflices in Afghanistan,Iraq,Syria amongst others. We literally can not afford another War and Putin knows this.


Because that is what will dictate the outcome of such a war. Anyone who thinks that there is a mad enough man on this earth willing to sacrifice the human species and set the whole planet back by millions of years is absolutely insane!! It will never happen... No one really knows what Putin's intentions are but they are irrelevant as he will never succeed.

And as far as I remember, the UK is only buying about 7% of its gas from Russia so it wont really affect us. Not to mention that Putin wouldn't like stopping the gas/oil delivery simply because he is making money out of it too, after all, he does own a 4% steak in Gazprom which is where his 70 billion US dollars fortune comes from as well as corruption. :whistling:


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Christ.... how is this load of ballax still on the go?


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> Christ.... how is this load of ballax still on the go?


don't know lol.. someone bumped the thread so i thought i would reply as well  nice set of wheels by the way mate (no ****)


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## wylde99 (Feb 23, 2008)

While the Main slStream Media tell you to "stand with Ukraine", a Country run by nazis who have been at war for years, spare a thought for whats happening in Shanghai right now.
People are being locked in their homes without food, forced tested twice a day and ripped away from their Families if testing positive for "Omicron",with their pets slaughtered. Distressing images of People screaming from their high rise apartments are circulating on Social Media but you won't hear this on the News.


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## GMDJ (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't know enough but when they find those WMD in Iraq I might believe what the media and the government says. Oh and Assad didn't gas his own people so I call bullshit when they say Russia is using chemical weapons. Video evidence or it didn't happen, and not videos taken from video games like Ukrainian propagandists are using. No idea of what russian propaganda there is as all their news sites are blocked. 

Someone else said it somewhere else but how long do you think it would take the government and the media to convince the public that Russia is the good guys?


----------



## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)




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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

GMDJ said:


> I don't know enough but when they find those WMD in Iraq I might believe what the media and the government says. Oh and Assad didn't gas his own people so I call bullshit when they say Russia is using chemical weapons. Video evidence or it didn't happen, and not videos taken from video games like Ukrainian propagandists are using. No idea of what russian propaganda there is as all their news sites are blocked.
> 
> Someone else said it somewhere else but how long do you think it would take the government and the media to convince the public that Russia is the good guys?


Yeh it's funny how when Assad (thanks to Russian intervention) was on the verge of victory that he'd choose to use chemical weapons, something that would bring the warmongering US into the fray. And now as 100s of Ukrainian marines are surrendering in Mariupol and according to our MSM the city will fall "within hours" , now it's claimed the Russians have used chemical weapons there too.

It's about as plausible as the claim that the Russians scrawled "this is for the children" on the side of a missile that apparently hit a train station in Kramatorsk last week.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

bit of background info from British journalist whose been reporting from Mariupol since 2014


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## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

rstiltskin said:


> Yeh it's funny how when Assad (thanks to Russian intervention) was on the verge of victory that he'd choose to use chemical weapons, something that would bring the warmongering US into the fray. And now as 100s of Ukrainian marines are surrendering in Mariupol and according to our MSM the city will fall "within hours" , now it's claimed the Russians have used chemical weapons there too.
> 
> It's about as plausible as the claim that the Russians scrawled "this is for the children" on the side of a missile that apparently hit a train station in Kramatorsk last week.


Anyone with a brain knows Assad didn’t gas his own people. The international investigation concluded he didn’t use any cluster gas. Robert frisk has done some great work on the ground to expose the western media as liars and corrupt. I remember the days Obama saying Islamic state were moderate rebels so he could fund them to try topple Assad for his pipeline with Turkey


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## ByTheNumbers (Aug 15, 2012)

rstiltskin said:


> bit of background info from British journalist whose been reporting from Mariupol since 2014


Another one from the same journalist appeared today. 
It is an interview with Aidin Aslin which most Western media will not show so may not stay on YouTube for long.
Make of it what you will.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Yo, mong0loids, the president of Ukraine is Jewish. Pretty sure the country ain't run by Nazis.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

ByTheNumbers said:


> Another one from the same journalist appeared today.
> It is an interview with Aidin Aslin which most Western media will not show so may not stay on YouTube for long.
> Make of it what you will.


The guy would obviously say anything to save his own skin at this point, so can't really give too much credence to anything he says. 

Weird guy though. Also fought for the YPG in Syria.


----------



## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

EpicSquats said:


> Yo, mong0loids, the president of Ukraine is Jewish. Pretty sure the country ain't run by Nazis.


Israel has been cosying up with Far right groups in Europe for years and even arming neo nazi militias in Ukraine.









Israel is arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine


Nazi group Azov is now a unit of the Ukrainian armed forces.




electronicintifada.net













An unlikely union: Israel and the European far right


Israel has been engaging far-right groups and parties across Europe, ignoring their anti-Semitism.




www.google.com





These elite zionists are a pretty soulless bunch.


----------



## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

EpicSquats said:


> Yo, mong0loids, the president of Ukraine is Jewish. Pretty sure the country ain't run by Nazis.


and achieved 73% of the vote too. Kinda ****ed up logic to think that 73% of nazis would vote for a jew.

but 'logic' isnt taught on Facebook mate


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

vlb said:


> and achieved 73% of the vote too. Kinda ****ed up logic to think that 73% of nazis would vote for a jew.
> 
> but 'logic' isnt taught on Facebook mate


Nah, that's where you're wrong bro. Nazis exist in Ukraine, so that means the whole country is run by Nazis. Just like bodybuilders exist in the UK so all people in the UK are bodybuilders.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

rstiltskin said:


> Israel has been cosying up with Far right groups in Europe for years and even arming neo nazi militias in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If someone said the sky was blue, you'd say it was green bro. But fair enough, better than all of us living in an echo chamber.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

So just to be clear, does anyone seriously think Russia are NOT killing civillians, invading Ukraine, and trying to take it over by force?


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

EpicSquats said:


> Nah, that's where you're wrong bro. Nazis exist in Ukraine, so that means the whole country is run by Nazis. Just like bodybuilders exist in the UK so all people in the UK are bodybuilders.


Nazis exist in all countries and infact there was a known Nazi group incorporated into the Ukranian National Guard due to their fighting in Crimea.

Perhaps this is where this bullshit story comes from (the incorporation of the unit into the National Guard was approved by the OLD president).

More nazis and skin heads in russia i would think.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

EpicSquats said:


> Nah, that's where you're wrong bro. Nazis exist in Ukraine, so that means the whole country is run by Nazis. Just like bodybuilders exist in the UK so all people in the UK are bodybuilders.


The "whole country" is not run by nazis but neo Nazi groups hold a lot of influence. The Ukraine national army includes openly far right battalions, one even has the Nazi wolfsangel symbol emblazoned on their sleeves.




EpicSquats said:


> If someone said the sky was blue, you'd say it was green bro. But fair enough, better than all of us living in an echo chamber.


I just give my opinion on subjects I have an interest in and have researched and believe I have a reasonable knowledge of. I really couldn't care less how many people agree/disagree. People need to decide for themselves what makes sense.

Problem is the majority of people can't be arsed to do any research and would rather just go along with whatever narrative is being pushed by the idiot box in their front room.




EpicSquats said:


> So just to be clear, does anyone seriously think Russia are NOT killing civillians, invading Ukraine, and trying to take it over by force?


Civilians have no doubt been killed by Russian military, but to coin the American originated phrase I'd say they're generally "collateral damage" as opposed to civilians being targeted. They could have levelled the entire country within a few days, if they weren't bothered about sparing civilians.

It hasn't been a US style Iraqi "shock and awe" invasion. (to coin another yank phrase)

I think it's pretty clear Russia has no intention of "taking" Ukraine. From the looks of it the goal was to broaden and consolidate the Russian separatists regions in the east and seriously weaken Ukraine militarily. And TBF despite all the shyte you're being fed by the MSM about Russia failing blah blah blah. If you look at a map of Russian separatists areas before Feb 24 and now, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job.

Meanwhile the UK taxpayer continues to fork out hundreds of millions sending in more military hardware to Ukraine for the Russians to destroy. In a pointless war that Ukraine can't win. At least the military manufacturers are getting paid though.

It's been clear from day one, the goal of the US and it's lackeys is for this war to drag on for as long as possible.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

And if you don't think there's a significant Nazi/far right element in Ukraine you'd better tell the MSM , as they've been reporting on it since the 2014 far right driven overthrowing of the then democratically elected Ukraine government. 


























Out of Control: Ukraine's Rogue Militias

TORCH-LIT MARCH IN KIEV BY UKRAINE'S RIGHT-WING SVOBODA PARTY - BBC NEWS

Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine: NEWSNIGHT

🇺🇦Ukraine far-right militia tries to exploit martial law | Al Jazeera English

Ukraine's Hyper-Nationalist Military Summer Camp for Kids | NBC Left Field


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

rstiltskin said:


> And if you don't think there's a significant Nazi/far right element in Ukraine you'd better tell the MSM , as they've been reporting on it since the 2014 far right driven overthrowing of the then democratically elected Ukraine government.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let's assume there is a significant neo-nazi element in Ukraine. What does it matter when it comes to the Russians invading Ukraine? There wouldn't be thousands of Ukrainian Civilians and Ukrainian military dying if Putin hadn't stayed out of Ukraine.
And of course, the Nazi element isn't that strong or they wouldn't have allowed a Jewish president to be elected.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

EpicSquats said:


> Let's assume there is a significant neo-nazi element in Ukraine. What does it matter when it comes to the Russians invading Ukraine? There wouldn't be thousands of Ukrainian Civilians and Ukrainian military dying if Putin hadn't stayed out of Ukraine.
> And of course, the Nazi element isn't that strong or they wouldn't have allowed a Jewish president to be elected.


You need to have a rough understanding of what's been going on in Ukraine since 2014 to form a balanced opinion.

I doubt Russia really gives a shyt about Ukraine's neo nazi problem beyond the fact that it's those nazi groups that are chiefly responsible (and the most effective) at fighting/attacking Russian 'separatists' in east Ukraine since 2014.

Add to that Zelensky regime keep stirring the pot by threatening to join anti Russian military group NATO.

I know you're getting fed all this shyt by the MSM that every country has a right to self determination and if Ukraine wants to join NATO it's up to them.... blah blah blah. But it's a load of bllx. The world doesn't work that way.

If every country can make whatever security arrangements it wants, why is Germany forbidden from possessing nuclear weapons? Why did the US have a problem with Cuba hosting Soviet missiles?

And more recent things that spring to mind (with far less grave implications than military installations) why did the US do everything in it's power to stop Germany's direct gas pipeline from Russia? Why did the US block the Huawei UK 5g roll out? Every country has the right to make it's own choices, right?

The Zelensky regime's strings are being pulled from Washington. He's sold the Ukrainian people way down the river. A long drawn out war is the aim. The ruskis seem to have different plans though.


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## Thugster (9 mo ago)

EpicSquats said:


> So just to be clear, does anyone seriously think Russia are NOT killing civillians, invading Ukraine, and trying to take it over by force?


It make a change for Russia to be doing it instead of not so Great Britain 🇬🇧


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

EpicSquats said:


> If someone said the sky was blue, you'd say it was green bro. But fair enough, better than all of us living in an echo chamber.


Mate i wholeheartedly respect you for being so open minded as not to want to live in an echo chamber however when the alternative (as it is on here) is a bunch of liars and single digit IQ bampots then i dont see that as a valid alternative.


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## Thugster (9 mo ago)

vlb said:


> Mate i wholeheartedly respect you for being so open minded as not to want to live in an echo chamber however when the alternative (as it is on here) is a bunch of liars and single digit IQ bampots then i dont see that as a valid alternative.


🤡


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## ByTheNumbers (Aug 15, 2012)

EpicSquats said:


> So just to be clear, does anyone seriously think Russia are NOT killing civillians, invading Ukraine, and trying to take it over by force?


They certainly are.

I am not sure why Ukraine are getting the level of support they are currently enjoying though.
Has the EU ever offered to fast track an EU membership from another country who has been in a state of civil war for 8 years and has absorbed ultra right wing militias into it's army? 
The level of military support from NATO(The Communists Are Scary Club) is probably more predictable.

BTW, I only posted the video because I did a search after seeing a Sky news video claiming the guy had been ill treated and was suffering from facial swelling and a 'gash' on his forehead in a video released by Russian state TV where he made the same claims he did in the video I posted.


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## Thugster (9 mo ago)

ByTheNumbers said:


> They certainly are.
> 
> I am not sure why Ukraine are getting the level of support they are currently enjoying though.
> Has the EU ever offered to fast track an EU membership from another country who has been in a state of civil war for 8 years and has absorbed ultra right wing militias into it's army?
> ...


Well when they set up bio laboratories on behalf of the UK/USA alliance obviously NATO will indirectly help when Russia invaded due to Ukraine having bio laboratories on their borders.


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

ByTheNumbers said:


> I am not sure why Ukraine are getting the level of support they are currently enjoying though.


Likely because they are a democratic sovereign nation who have been invaded by their neighbour.

Perhaps so other nations can sell them weapons and make money out of it.

perhaps so other countries can test the resolve of Russia via a proxy war.

So many reasons why but i cant really think of many reasons not too.




ByTheNumbers said:


> Has the EU ever offered to fast track an EU membership from another country who has been in a state of civil war for 8 years


To be fair, the only person of note to offer the 'fast track' was the Eu Commissions President and it doesnt seem that she consulted the member of the European Union prior to doing it.



ByTheNumbers said:


> has absorbed ultra right wing militias into it's army?


I agree the on the face of it this seems strange however if you look into the details of how it came about and who sanctioned it its plausible/acceptable that the new president allowed it to continue.

Your enemies enemy and all that.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

vlb said:


> Likely because they are a democratic sovereign nation who have been invaded by their neighbour.


Yeh apart from the time in 2014 when an armed mob physically overthrew the actual democratically elected government! LOL


On another note. The few remaining Azov battalion nazis holed up in the Avostal steel plant are claiming there are civilians in there with them.

*"At least 1,000 civilians, including women and children, are sheltering underneath the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol alongside the city's remaining defense forces that are refusing to surrender to Russian troops."*

1,000 civilians hiding under steel plant in Mariupol with Ukrainian troops: Reports | Washington Examiner

So lets get this straight. 1400 Ukrainian marines have surrendered and left the steel works over the past 10 days or so, but 1000 civilians "including women and children" decided they'd stay and tough it out!


Think this BS pretty much sums up the majority of the Ukrainian claims re Russian 'war crimes' and targeting civilians.

These Nazis will make up any old shyt to save their skins. Unfortunately they don't have the brain power to make their lies remotely plausible....In saying that the sheeple will probably lap it up, like every other crock of shyt offered to them.

Meanwhile back on planet reality, if there are any women and children in there, they're not there of their own free will.


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## rstiltskin (Jan 9, 2022)

Ukrainian Major pleading for "World 🌎 leaders" to "extract" them from the under seige steel plant.

For some reason he's asking that they be taken to a "3rd party state" 

Why do they not just want to be taken to a safe western region of Ukraine? 

Will they be harmed by their own Ukrainian regime, for some reason?

Don't make much sense.


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## wylde99 (Feb 23, 2008)

Liz Truss commits UK to give Ukraine at least £2.3bn in military aid


The PM pledged the UK will match or exceed the record support given to Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s 'inspirational' troops.




www.gbnews.uk





Still supporting Ukraine you Virtue Signalling easily led Clowns?


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## train2win (Feb 25, 2012)

wylde99 said:


> Liz Truss commits UK to give Ukraine at least £2.3bn in military aid
> 
> 
> The PM pledged the UK will match or exceed the record support given to Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s 'inspirational' troops.
> ...


.


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## ByTheNumbers (Aug 15, 2012)

wylde99 said:


> Liz Truss commits UK to give Ukraine at least £2.3bn in military aid
> 
> 
> The PM pledged the UK will match or exceed the record support given to Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s 'inspirational' troops.
> ...


2.3bn is a token gesture.
It would just about bring one of our carriers up to operational strength without having to rely on US aircraft.
Considering what has been spent on Covid and the 'Cost of Living Crisis' it seems like pocket change.


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