# The Laws of Tren.



## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

This was posted on another forum, I thought I would share it here:

Trenbolone, as they say..... The Nectar of the Gods! Is by far the most misunderstood drug, in all of bodybuilding history. So many stories out there of the reckless insomnia, the high blood pressure, the hair on your pillow, the brown stinky urine that is reponsibly for your kidneys falling out of your ass. Ill be the first person to tell you that this is 90% horse ****.

Why? Continue reading below.

You see, due to broscience and bible like teachings of steroid use, everyone thought it was only logical to run your Test twice as high as your Tren, you know..to avoid that TREN DICK! Well, it would only seem logical right? God forbid the Tren dosage was as high as your Test, and you might just get called insane or stupid. Well, I too was one that fell into the hole of incorrect teachings. My first time trying Trenbolone, I start out at 150mg per week&#8230;150 measly milligrams per week. I coupled it with 500mg Test Enanthate. And I tell ya what&#8230;I felt the night sweats, insomnia, the aggression, and the high blood pressure. I felt god ****ing awful. And so there I stopped.

A few months later down the road, I began reading some things on this very forum, all about low Test/ High Tren. Me being a guinea pig, I decided to give Tren one more try. I also had read very deep into Cabergoline. I figured, if im using an anti-estrogen for my Test dosage&#8230;.why would I not use an anti-prolactin? If you all didn't know by now, Trenbolone raises prolactin inside the body dramatically after the 4th-5th week. Then, I began reading on prolactin's effect on the body. And then it all finally clicked correctly in my head.

Tren dick? Deca dick? How can such androgenic drugs, shut down libido so badly, to the point of feeling castrated? Well, I will tell you all, once and for all, why these mythical Tren Dick and Deca Dick situations even occur.

So check me out. After successful sexual intercourse, the male ejaculates. When this occurs, the body spikes the hormone prolactin, which is the signal to let you know you are officially done with copulation. That's it, youre done. You've reached the sex heaven.

So what happens next? Your dick dies. It goes absolutely limp. Because, by human nature, there is no more need for you to pass along your seeds, they are already inside the queen bee.

So what does this all mean? Essentially, it is prolactin causing the problems, NOT the Tren. Yes, of course, the Tren caused the prolactin to rise, but we don't attack the Tren, we attack the prolactin.

That's where Cabergoline comes in. Caber comes in with the dual AK-47's and blasts prolactin to the floor, never to be heard from again. Now that that's taken care of, Tren and Deca will NEVER again give you limp noodle dick. EVER.

Now back to the "Low Test" deal, I had read a post some fellow made, about NEVER going above 200mg whenever Tren is in the equation. So I tried it&#8230;

I started out again with 50mg Tren Ace EOD. Coupled with 50mg Test Ace EOD.

2 Weeks in and I began feeling incredible. Strength and size were thru the roof. And I said, damn, is this Test Ace good as **** and this Tren Ace bunk or some****? No way ***** never sends me bunk ****&#8230;. What the ****? I don't feel any sides!

So I bumped the Tren Ace to 100mg EOD. I felt even better&#8230;

Then I bumped the Tren Ace to 200mg EOD&#8230;.

Then 300mg EOD.

And good god, I was the biggest and leanest Ive ever been in my life, all the while running 150mg of Test Ace per week the entire time.

I was on 900mg of Tren Ace per week only for 2 weeks, and then I dropped the drug entirely. But I must state again, never in my life had I felt so amazing. Strength, size, vascularity, sex drive, well being, blood pressure, my god did I feel like a well-lubed high performance machine. I had gained 10lbs of pure size and no water in just 4 weeks. I am NOT telling you to run 900mg of Tren, no I really am not. This is purely for my own experimental reasons. I just wanted to see what would happen, even if I stayed on 150mg Test the entire time.

After this experience, Testosterone is simply a weak and inefficient steroid next to Trenbolone. In my mind, when you couple such a powerful drug like Trenbolone at a moderate to high dosage, with a high dosage of Testosterone, you leave LOTS and LOTS of unbound hormone flowing around mindlessly in your body. Since Trenbolone attaches to the receptor site first, and there is high dosages of Testosterone in the mix as well, its as if Testosterone is roaming the streets looting stores, stealing cars, breaking windows (high blood pressure, insomnia, night sweats).

You know what I say? When Trenbolone is sitting at the front of the table, talking, everyone else shuts their mouths. That's right. He is the ****ing boss and no one else is above him. Testosterone is like the boss' bitch. The boss' bitch is allowed to speak ONLY when the boss is NOT speaking.

What do I mean by that? When Trenbolone is at ANYTIME part of your cycle, test is always below 200mg a week. When Trenbolone comes OUT of the equation, that's when you may blast Testosterone to the moon.

Final conclusion of my story?

1)	Always keep prolactin in check when using Trenbolone or Nandrolone

2)	Never use more than 200mg of Testosterone per week when using Trenbolone

3)	Don't knock something till you try it. It may change your entire mindset of this game!

4) Bump up Tren nice and slow...and get big and lean as ****!


----------



## mattc1991 (Jan 2, 2012)

Great post, currently doing this myself, was cruising on test e at 250mg e10d so I kept that dose and added tren, currently on 400mg, leaner & bigger than ever, no sweats, insomnia, high sex drive, it's amazing like you say!!


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Good read. Will be trying this approach with my first cycle on tren.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Ive always been an advocate of equal or lower test to tren. It's seems common sense to me.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

is caber a necessity?

i thought it rises due to high oestrogen?

so could i keep it in check by running just a normal AI?


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm currently on 1.6g of Tren + 200mg Test. Best gains I have ever seen.

I have used 2.4g Test + 600mg of Tren in the past and the results were no where as close to what I'm seeing now.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Contest said:


> I'm currently on 1.6g of Tren + 200mg Test. Best gains I have ever seen.
> 
> I have used 2.4g Test + 600mg of Tren in the past and the results were no where as close to what I'm seeing now.


I was planning in running test and tren hex might just do low test see how I get on


----------



## man_dem03 (Oct 1, 2008)

was going to do something like this over winter, thanks for the post!


----------



## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

I'll probably try this approach at some stage as last time I ran tren at 400mg and test at 800mg the sides were horrendous so I assumed it was the tren and dropped it. Would be good to try it again with low test and see how it goes.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

thanks for posting


----------



## suliktribal (Apr 4, 2010)

1.2g test to 800mg tren e a week and no sides to do with my little Mr. Only sides I get are night sweats.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I've never felt any of the common Tren sides that people report and even at 1.6g feel absolutely fine. No issues sleeping or anything.


----------



## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

Contest said:


> I've never felt any of the common Tren sides that people report and even at 1.6g feel absolutely fine. No issues sleeping or anything.


Is it enanthate you're using?


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Problem is, ive not noticed any sources that sell caber! B4astards!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

solidcecil said:


> Is it enanthate you're using?


Yes mate.

400mg on Monday's and 600mg on Wednesday's and Friday's.


----------



## Dave_b (Jul 7, 2012)

funkdocta said:


> Problem is, ive not noticed any sources that sell caber! B4astards!


http://www.4nrx-uk.md


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dave_b said:


> http://www.4nrx-uk.md


Ah great work! rx sites usually charge more for shipping than to actually buy the bloody meds!


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Hmm, where can we get cabergoline, it's not a steroid is it?


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Caber, Bromo or Prami....? That is another question.


----------



## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Thats a class read

PASS ME THE TREN!!


----------



## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Smitch said:


> Hmm, where can we get cabergoline, it's not a steroid is it?


Looks like RX Cart sell it from a quick search

Cant get on the site in work though


----------



## mills91 (Sep 18, 2012)

I wanna get me some TREN!!!


----------



## man_dem03 (Oct 1, 2008)

what does of caber?


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Was that posted on an American board by any chance?! :lol:


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Hotdog147 said:


> Was that posted on an American board by any chance?! :lol:


Exactly how I read it :lol:


----------



## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Was that posted on an American board by any chance?! :lol:


Yes it was on Pro Muscle.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

man_dem03 said:


> what does of caber?


0.25mg twice per week should be enough.


----------



## sean 162 (Sep 27, 2009)

Interesting. always good to hear ur on the right track. Currently on week 5 of Test E 250mgpw and Tren E 400mgpw jumpstarted with tbol. Running aromasin and caber alongside hcg. Weight has already shot up to new heights and lifts thru the roof wile looking leaner than ever before. Strength is immense !


----------



## NotSoBig (Jun 28, 2013)

Great read, it seems that this is the norm with Test/Tren cycles now?


----------



## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

NotSoBig said:


> Great read, it seems that this is the norm with Test/Tren cycles now?


It seems to be increasingly popular


----------



## sadman (Jul 24, 2013)

sean 162 said:


> Interesting. always good to hear ur on the right track. Currently on week 5 of Test E 250mgpw and Tren E 400mgpw jumpstarted with tbol. Running aromasin and caber alongside hcg. Weight has already shot up to new heights and lifts thru the roof wile looking leaner than ever before. Strength is immense !


whats your caber-aro,dosage m8?0,5 caber ew-12,5 aro eod?


----------



## sean 162 (Sep 27, 2009)

Actually 0.5 caber twice a week although i may drop to 0.5 im just overcautious. And yep12.5 aroma eod. Even that feels strong. Reason for this is ive had gyno flare up in the past and had pre existing that has slowly vanished just recently due to aromasin


----------



## A-BOMB (May 4, 2012)

hmm deffo want tren in my next cycle!


----------



## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for this!


----------



## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

If using test at 250mg per week what would be a decent tren e dose to make this approach work minimum 400mg??


----------



## Dr Manhattan (Jan 8, 2012)

So if running caber, should any AI you'd run be run as normal?


----------



## sadman (Jul 24, 2013)

sean 162 said:


> Actually 0.5 caber twice a week although i may drop to 0.5 im just overcautious. And yep12.5 aroma eod. Even that feels strong. Reason for this is ive had gyno flare up in the past and had pre existing that has slowly vanished just recently due to aromasin


better safe than sorry bro !!


----------



## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

Great read. Enjoyed that

All these tren threads get me tempted and this has almost sold it

Thanks


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dr Manhattan said:


> So if running caber, should any AI you'd run be run as normal?


Depends how you react to the test... tren doesnt aromatise so you use caber for the that and the AI for the test.


----------



## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

Dave_b said:


> http://www.4nrx-uk.md


Do you personally use these? seems quite cheap with the free delivery over £30


----------



## dirtymusket1 (May 24, 2008)

Excellent post

very informative :thumb:


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

baggsy said:


> If using test at 250mg per week what would be a decent tren e dose to make this approach work minimum 400mg??


It will depend on the person as it always has. My mantra is use as little as possible to get the results you desire.

With 250mg test then I would use tren at a minimum of 250mg. Doubling your tren doesnt mean you will double your gains etc etc...


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> Do you personally use these? seems quite cheap with the free delivery over £30


Some of their stuff is pharma some is generic... the prices are either decent or crazy high.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Dr Manhattan said:


> So if running caber, should any AI you'd run be run as normal?


You will need some adex.. i used 0.5mg twice EW to start on 700 tren a & 150 test

By the time i finished 15 weeks later as was using 1mg 3 times EW


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Sounds dubious to me tbh


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Archaic said:


> Sounds dubious to me tbh


dubious how? its pretty much common sense.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> dubious how? its pretty much common sense.


I was referring to the original post.


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Archaic said:


> I was referring to the original post.


Why?

Doesn't to me, cemented a few ideas and I'm sold, should be here for the weekend


----------



## Dave_b (Jul 7, 2012)

Casper13 said:


> Do you personally use these? seems quite cheap with the free delivery over £30


yes mate, had 3 deliveries now all arrived fine,Pharma T3 delivery arrived yesterday morning, i placed order on 1st, so 11 days to get here


----------



## jeffj (Jun 18, 2011)

I just finished running 700mg tren ace ew 700mg prop ew no sides from the tren. amazing strength tho.  *also ran aromasin at 12.5mg ed and caber 0.5mg twice a week.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

This is a massive thread on the other forum with a lot of disagreeing and arguing over it.. many think it's not very good and others love it including me.

My personal option of this post is it's not a first time tren users cycle and a standard 2.1 test to tren ration should be used for your first time to see how you react.. it's tried & test.

I class this type of cycle as an intermediate tren cycle and if you choose to use it first time there's a good chance you'l be coming to the forum with problems you don't know how to fix or understand and someone else will be trying to fix your problems.


----------



## danefox (Oct 18, 2013)

I also saw the same post on Sons of Iron, also an American board.


----------



## mattc1991 (Jan 2, 2012)

Dead lee said:


> This is a massive thread on the other forum with a lot of disagreeing and arguing over it.. many think it's not very good and others love it including me.
> 
> My personal option of this post is it's not a first time tren users cycle and a standard 2.1 test to tren ration should be used for your first time to see how you react.. it's tried & test.
> 
> I class this type of cycle as an intermediate tren cycle and if you choose to use it first time there's a good chance you'l be coming to the forum with problems you don't know how to fix or understand and someone else will be trying to fix your problems.


But, the general consensus is that there's less problems with high tren low test, so why for a first time user use 2:1 ratio of test>tren? That causes more problems?


----------



## dannyp90 (Aug 21, 2011)

Dave_b said:


> http://www.4nrx-uk.md


A tenner for caber my source chargers me 25 quid


----------



## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

Nice idea but I think I'll stick to the 2:1:1 ratio test, tren, mast. It worked well for me before so I'm pretty sure it'd work well again


----------



## Dave_b (Jul 7, 2012)

dannyp90 said:


> A tenner for caber my source chargers me 25 quid


i just paid £3.79 for 100x25mcg pharma t3, sources ive seen charge £15-20 for 30x25mcg pharma t3...love that site ha


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

mattc1991 said:


> But, the general consensus is that there's less problems with high tren low test, so why for a first time user use 2:1 ratio of test>tren? That causes more problems?


The general consensus is causes less of the usual sides associated with tren like aggression/bad moods, insomnia things that you you don't have to do anything about and just grin & bare it.

This type of cycle leaves you open to prolactin gyno.. debates to whether you have prolactin gyno or estrogen related gyno the beginner tren user does not know the difference also the risk of loss of libido and how to fix it if it does happen.

It is a more advanced cycle imo and a basic knowledge of tren and how it works is necessary.


----------



## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Dave_b said:


> i just paid £3.79 for 100x25mcg pharma t3, sources ive seen charge £15-20 for 30x25mcg pharma t3...love that site ha


Fcuk me, I pay £1 per tab for 100mcgs


----------



## dannyp90 (Aug 21, 2011)

Ben_Dover said:


> Fcuk me, I pay £1 per tab for 100mcgs


Wanna give it a try now!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

@Hotdog147 What is your opinion on Caber when running Test/Tren with an A.I? My understanding is Caber is not needed.


----------



## sean 162 (Sep 27, 2009)

Since adding caber my labido has gone through the roof. And lethargy gone. Just my tupence worth . So i see some truth in the original post . I suppose to a degree we all react differently . I found my sweet spot


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

rectus said:


> @Hotdog147 What is your opinion on Caber when running Test/Tren with an A.I? My understanding is Caber is not needed.


It's not needed you're right mate, estrogen control (notice I say control) is all you will ever need, unless of course you already have existing gyno then caber can be a good addition to stop possible lactation

Estrogen and prolactin are opposing hormones, which brings me back to why I said 'control' estrogen, don't go over board with your AI doses


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

HAWTDAWG FOR MOD!


----------



## sean 162 (Sep 27, 2009)

Agree with u @Hotdog147 im using caber as i had pre existing gyno and wuld rather be safe than sorry. The average joe shouldnt NEED caber. Aslong as estro in check


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

sean 162 said:


> Since adding caber my labido has gone through the roof. And lethargy gone. Just my tupence worth . So i see some truth in the original post . I suppose to a degree we all react differently . I found my sweet spot


Well, if you do a little reading up on what it actually does and what it's sometimes prescribed for then all becomes clear mate

Its well known for massively increasing libido, but really shouldn't be just taken willy nilly

As for your later post....definitely agree and understand your reasons for using


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm using a very low dose of aromasin, which I'll be lowering even more once I start the tren and reduce my test dose, and never shown any signs of gyno.

However I'm still getting caber in just I case. Same reason I've got a cupboard full of chlomid and nolva, lol.


----------



## dannyp90 (Aug 21, 2011)

Dave_b said:


> yes mate, had 3 deliveries now all arrived fine,Pharma T3 delivery arrived yesterday morning, i placed order on 1st, so 11 days to get here


Totally legitimate no problems though customs or anything?


----------



## Antares (Nov 2, 2013)

Does Tren really make you lose weight in your face?


----------



## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

I've been saying hight tren low test for a while.


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Every body likes the article, as it tells us what we want to hear, regardless of if it is true or not.

I'd be very interested to hear from more people who have run the conventional high test/low tren, then switched it around and gotten less sides, (esp psychological sides).

I've not used tren for many years, as it makes me a horrible c*nt, but I've been toying with the idea of trying this for the last 10 months or so, just not braved it yet.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Nytol said:


> Every body likes the article, as it tells us what we want to hear, regardless of if it is true or not.
> 
> I'd be very interested to hear from more people who have run the conventional high test/low tren, then switched it around and gotten less sides, (esp psychological sides).
> 
> I've not used tren for many years, as it makes me a horrible c*nt, but I've been toying with the idea of trying this for the last 10 months or so, just not braved it yet.


Agree. And same here regarding psychological sides.

I've been cruising for the last 8 weeks. Next Monday I am going back on a blast, I'm tempted to keep Test at 250mg p/w and hit Tren E at 750mg p/w just to see if this new internet trend holds any water.

If I do, I'll start a thread.

I am hesitant though.


----------



## bumont (Aug 18, 2012)

I did high tren/equal test the start of my last blast and thinking back to it I felt much better and looked better than high test/low tren.


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Archaic said:


> Agree. And same here regarding psychological sides.
> 
> I've been cruising for the last 8 weeks. Next Monday I am going back on a blast, I'm tempted to keep Test at 250mg p/w and hit Tren E at 750mg p/w just to see if this new internet trend holds any water.
> 
> ...


I shall be very interested, as you seem like a sensible chap 

I've worked too hard for my sanity over the last 5yrs to risk it for that gorgeous, golden indulgence, BUT, I would dearly love to have the good bits without the bad.


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Nytol said:


> I shall be very interested, as you seem like a sensible chap
> 
> I've worked too hard for my sanity over the last 5yrs to risk it for that gorgeous, golden indulgence, BUT, I would dearly love to have the good bits without the bad.


Did it really affect you that badly?. I do know somebody personally that had an awful experience on it too.

Does just stopping the tren cycle not reverse the effects or is that too simplistic?


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Kimball said:


> Did it really affect you that badly?. I do know somebody personally that had an awful experience on it too.
> 
> Does just stopping the tren cycle not reverse the effects or is that too simplistic?


Yes, it did.

Don't get me wrong, it enhanced the flaws already present in my mental state, it did not turn me from an optimistic peace lover into a psychopath.

The work I speak of on myself was not because of tren, that was a natural gift 

I can only speak from my own experiences, but stopping tren alone did not always make things OK.

Mental states can become a habit, and take work to get out of, esp as negative mental states are far easier and less effort for the most part than positive ones.

So for me, no amount of psychological disruption is worth it, but I'm self aware enough to know when it kicks in, (annoyingly enough it was always week 2-3, just when I was starting get that hardness to my physique), and stop it.

If others similar to me had success, then I'd be willing to give it a try, as much for the experiment as the potential gains.


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Ive used tren best part over 10 years and always had my test higher then my tren.

Untill last summer when I heard about swapping around and lowering test upping the tren

Well at time I started cycle pro chem one rip a test prop,tren a, mast p blend

I did 2ml EOD of this but on top I added 1ml TRen A and 1ml MAst p to it

Which turned out to be around 450mg prop, 700mg tren a, 700mg mast p

This got me in the best shape looking the best I have ever looked

I ran anadrol at 50mg also with this which helped keep me full as some people say that high tren make u look flat unless ur carbs are on high side

Ive never been big into high carbs, I tend stick high protein, moderate carbs, high fats

I think this works best even for lean growth body repsonds better to it.


----------



## secretsausage (Jul 29, 2013)

Dazarms said:


> Ive used tren best part over 10 years and always had my test higher then my tren.
> 
> Untill last summer when I heard about swapping around and lowering test upping the tren
> 
> ...


So you've done both doses protocols - what do you think of the OP? Was the higher tren without as many sides?


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

secretsausage said:


> So you've done both doses protocols - what do you think of the OP? Was the higher tren without as many sides?


I had far less sides in terms of water retention even tho I was using prop and always stick with test prop over other test. I just prefer how I look on prop and dont mind EOD jabs

But yes far less sides and can run tren pretty high and dont go crazy on it

sweats yes but nothing major and the odd tren dream here and there but nothing I couldnt handle

I just looked biggest and best shape id ever been

favourite cycle to date


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Nytol said:


> Every body likes the article, as it tells us what we want to hear, regardless of if it is true or not.
> 
> I'd be very interested to hear from more people who have run the conventional high test/low tren, then switched it around and gotten less sides, (esp psychological sides).
> 
> I've not used tren for many years, as it makes me a horrible c*nt, but I've been toying with the idea of trying this for the last 10 months or so, just not braved it yet.


I have.. i stopped using tren for a year and used just test on it's own.. this was mainly due to the fact i was extremely moody using the 2.1/3.1 test ratio and i realized i wasn't nice to be around.

I used this method last cycle after reading it on that other board for 15 weeks at 150mg test & 700 mg tren a as i was skeptical and wanted to pull out if necessary, i used the caber as well like he recommends.. i dont think i lost control once and never felt out of control.. before that i would be like arguing with people in my head if they said the wrong thing.. waking up after dreaming about fighting people lol

The idea is to keep test low as possible with 125-150mg PW recommended not 250 - 400 mg etc as he believes and i tend to agree that the tren binds stronger to the receptors than test and hence lower sides.. i also think that caber plays its part in keep your mood up.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Archaic said:


> I was referring to the original post.


So was i...


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

mattc1991 said:


> But, the general consensus is that there's less problems with high tren low test, so why for a first time user use 2:1 ratio of test>tren? That causes more problems?


Its got nothing to do with the ratio... its just the tren full stop. going higher tren to test is just because you dont need all the test, the tren wins the race to the receptors everytime so you just dont need so much test its a bit of a waste. People run the test higher because they think it counters the tren sides when it doesnt really...

The idea is that you use caber to reduce or eliminate the tren sides therefore you can use a base amount of test.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

rectus said:


> @Hotdog147 What is your opinion on Caber when running Test/Tren with an A.I? My understanding is Caber is not needed.


Just the same as an AI is not "needed". Its a choice and will reduce the prolactin sides from tren.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

theBEAST2002 said:


> I've been saying hight tren low test for a while.


A few of us have, test is not a cure for tren sides.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Just the same as an AI is not "needed". Its a choice and will reduce the prolactin sides from tren.


An AI is needed IME


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> An AI is needed IME


Its a personal choice. I myself need it because i dont want to bloat like a whale. I am not prone to gyno so i dont need it for that. If you are not prone and dont care if you bloat then its not really needed in theory. Not to say I wouldnt recommend it with every test cycle... I would. As I would use caber with tren.


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I have always used Test/Tren/Mast En in a 2/1/1 ratio, never had any issues, even at 2g/1g/1g.


----------



## Dave_b (Jul 7, 2012)

dannyp90 said:


> Totally legitimate no problems though customs or anything?


yes arrived fine mate, all boxed up with a proper delivery note. I ordered £60.00 worth of stuff in total and there were no custom charges, but ive read on here that people have been charged before, just luck of the draw i think


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> I have always used Test/Tren/Mast En in a 2/1/1 ratio, never had any issues, even at 2g/1g/1g.


For me the ratio is irrelevant. If you get bad sides from tren you will get them no matter what your ratio is. You obviously are fine with tren, as are a lot of people. I know my prolactin rockets with 19-nors get sweaty, bad sleep and my libido is destroyed... the test may counter the libido a little bit if you aren't destroying your estro with an AI; but using caber lower the prolactin works much better.


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

I've read the thread and the main thing that comes to mind is that the guy writing it makes all these claims about how amazing he looked and how it changed his physique so much.........where is the evidence??

No pics nothing just a load of American hearsay. Show me evidence and I will believe it.

Personally I think the whole thing is completely subjective, some people react horribly to Tren and get all the sides on a tiny dose, others like me get almost zero sides, sometimes I feel a bit warm and that's it and that was running 900mg Test and 450mg Tren.

Its just an article that is following a trend that is going through every forum at the moment, people need to take a step back and look at what is being said:

The best steroid in the world is Tren......you take a higher dose and you get better gains.....surprise fcking surprise!


----------



## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> Do you personally use these? seems quite cheap with the free delivery over £30


how much is shipping?


----------



## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

skipper1987 said:


> how much is shipping?


Free delivery if you spend £30 or more. Made an order last night


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

funkdocta said:


> Problem is, ive not noticed any sources that sell caber! B4astards!


you probably wont see ugl caber as its not cheap in comparison to pharma caber you can buy, so any caber floating about will be generic/ pharma so it is scarce


----------



## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

Casper13 said:


> Free delivery if you spend £30 or more. Made an order last night


But how much on orders below £30.?


----------



## Guest (Nov 13, 2013)

Shame aurapham went as they did 20 1mg caber tabs for just over 40 dollars!!


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

stone14 said:


> you probably wont see ugl caber as its not cheap in comparison to pharma caber you can buy, so any caber floating about will be generic/ pharma so it is scarce


Yeah your right, but some ug sources supply generic or pharma meds such as adex and nolva... just wondering why they dont bother getting caber in stock. Especially considering how popular tren is these days.


----------



## R1CHY (Jan 1, 2013)

Whats the difference between Tren Ace, E & Cyc??


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

R1CHY said:


> Whats the difference between Tren Ace, E & Cyc??


The half lives. Google "steroid esters"


----------



## Clayt (Aug 31, 2013)

Awesome post and good read, thanks for sharing this!


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Nytol said:


> I shall be very interested, as you seem like a sensible chap
> 
> I've worked too hard for my sanity over the last 5yrs to risk it for that gorgeous, golden indulgence, BUT, I would dearly love to have the good bits without the bad.


The last time I ran Tren my boy was 10 months old and the Mrs made it clear I wouldn't see either of them again if I carried on behaving the way I was.

I can't say for certain because I wasn't clinically diagnosed, but I believe I suffered a mini psychotic break. Without going into details, I basically made myself unemployable and if I didn't have my family to loose I believe I would have gone completely over the edge and done some things that there wouldn't have been any coming back from.

It's two years later now, haven't touched Tren since, life is good, am earning money, we got a little girl aswell now and are getting married soon. 

This new internet trend may be factual, it may not. But on reflection I don't believe it is enough to risk going on another meltdown, so have decided not try the experiment. I'd like to, I love the positives I used to get off Tren, but the potential negatives I may encounter makes it a risk not worth taking... 

If you do go ahead and try it though Nytol, @ me in one of your posts so I can see how you get on.


----------



## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

Is this way of running tren a way to get rid of sides or does it actually produce better gains? I ask because I don't really suffer any bad sides off tren at all just sweats really.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

baggsy said:


> Is this way of running tren a way to get rid of sides or does it actually produce better gains? I ask because I don't really suffer any bad sides off tren at all just sweats really.


It's not so much about a way of running it, but about using caber to prevent/lessen the sides. It also highlights that you dont need test higher than tren. If you are also pumping higher test in its just a waste or money in my opinion.

If you dont suffer much sides from tren then you are lucky  Prolactin ****s you up.


----------



## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Everyone reacts differently

So until you personally try it then you dont know what gains and sides you will see


----------



## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

solidcecil said:


> This was posted on another forum, I thought I would share it here:
> 
> Trenbolone, as they say..... The Nectar of the Gods! Is by far the most misunderstood drug, in all of bodybuilding history. So many stories out there of the reckless insomnia, the high blood pressure, the hair on your pillow, the brown stinky urine that is reponsibly for your kidneys falling out of your ass. Ill be the first person to tell you that this is 90% horse ****.
> 
> ...


This all sounds very good, positive and out right awesome, but this is all based on one theory of libido and prolactin, there is a lot more to aas than libido. The fact still remains the body is in a constant state of homoeostasis and is built to balance hormones in the body one way or another. Running Tren on its own for example will mean your body stops its on production of test as it assumes it has enough and reads tren as test, this means when you crash and your test levels deplete you will suffer libido issues anyway, if you note the OP only ran this for 2 weeks. In this theory then you could run tren as high as you like all on its own. This is all just mho though, Im just not sure I buy into it, not when I have no problems on test and tren anyway


----------



## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

and in ref to the test floating around, use mast or proviron to lower shbg and your away, tren does not bind the same as test


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Archaic said:


> The last time I ran Tren my boy was 10 months old and the Mrs made it clear I wouldn't see either of them again if I carried on behaving the way I was.
> 
> I can't say for certain because I wasn't clinically diagnosed, but I believe I suffered a mini psychotic break. Without going into details, I basically made myself unemployable and if I didn't have my family to loose I believe I would have gone completely over the edge and done some things that there wouldn't have been any coming back from.
> 
> ...


I can absolutely relate to much of what you have said mate, and I respect your honesty.

If I do try I shall certainly keep you up dated with the results, just for informations sake, but I am far from convinced and like you, the negatives are not worth the positives, not even close.


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Interesting from both nytol and archaic, I have a friend who had a similar experience. I, and my wife, will be keeping a very close eye on my behaviour over the next few weeks.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Kimball said:


> Interesting from both nytol and archaic, I have a friend who had a similar experience. I, and my wife, will be keeping a very close eye on my behaviour over the next few weeks.


Maybe it just has this reaction with people who are already a bit psychotic? :lol:


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

funkdocta said:


> Maybe it just has this reaction with people who are already a bit psychotic? :lol:


In all seriousness I do think this is the case.

Yet tren has had negative effects in even my most laid back of friends, so being self aware and ready to accept responsibility for your mental state is essential.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Nytol said:


> In all seriousness I do think this is the case.
> 
> Yet tren has had negative effects in even my most laid back of friends, so being self aware and ready to accept responsibility for your mental state is essential.


Yeah everyone reacts differently. I would say though is it definitely the tren? Could it be all the free testosterone floating around when using tren as it uses up all your receptors?? Have you ever ran tren on its own? Even just running moderate test can make a lot of people a hot head.


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

funkdocta said:


> Yeah everyone reacts differently. I would say though is it definitely the tren? Could it be all the free testosterone floating around when using tren as it uses up all your receptors?? *Have you ever ran tren on its own*? Even just running moderate test can make a lot of people a hot head.


Would I be asking for other peoples experiences if I had? 

My head goes esp bad on tren, deca and NPP, but I'm open to ideas on the specific reasons and what I could possibly do to combat those, that is why my interest in the thread.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Nytol said:


> Would I be asking for other peoples experiences if I had?
> 
> My head goes esp bad on tren, deca and NPP, but I'm open to ideas on the specific reasons and what I could possibly do to combat those, that is why my interest in the thread.


Aye, it is all interesting to be honest. Have you used caber while using tren at all??


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

funkdocta said:


> Aye, it is all interesting to be honest. Have you used caber while using tren at all??


No, never used it, don't suffer from any oestrogen or progesterone sides, but I had previously considered prolactin's interaction with dopamine and if that may be making me feel the way I did?

I have ADHD, so my dopamine levels/receptors are not what they should be in the first place.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Nytol said:


> I can absolutely relate to much of what you have said mate, and I respect your honesty.
> 
> If I do try I shall certainly keep you up dated with the results, just for informations sake, but I am far from convinced and like you, the negatives are not worth the positives, not even close.


Yeah, it's definitely not a decision to take lightly mate if you react to Tren in a similar way to myself. Good luck if/when you do go ahead though bud, I'll read with allot of interest.



funkdocta said:


> Maybe it just has this reaction with people who are already a bit psychotic? :lol:


Well, I can't say I've never had dark thoughts mate, but I have a conscious and am capable of feeling empathy, remorse and love - so that discounts me from being dictionary definition psychopath. I'd like to think I'm a level headed guy though.... Sometimes.... 

I don't think you can gauge how bad an individual will react off Tren just by knowing them tbh, no two people's minds are wired exactly the same, I guess you just have to explore it for yourself and use caution.


----------



## SWIPS (Jan 30, 2012)

good read guys, very interesting, i was going to do ttm and prop

but not ive change my mind and doing ttm and tren ace

240 prop 240 mast 480 ten a

will be interesting... last time i did 750 sust and 400 tren e and i felt awful, couldn't eat or sleep no sex drive etc, bloated, water retention etc

now it kinda of makes sense, too much free test floating about and convering in to east even though i run adex 1mg eod at one point


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Nytol said:


> No, never used it, don't suffer from any oestrogen or progesterone sides, but I had previously considered prolactin's interaction with dopamine and if that may be making me feel the way I did?
> 
> I have ADHD, so my dopamine levels/receptors are not what they should be in the first place.


Well caber is dopamine agonist and could really help with you when you use 19-nors. Prolactin is bad


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Nytol said:


> In all seriousness I do think this is the case.
> 
> Yet tren has had negative effects in even my most laid back of friends, so being self aware and ready to accept responsibility for your mental state is essential.


I'm very chilled laid back and 700mg tren ac ew had me paranoid and snappy, I was waching jeremy kyle where 1 lass was cheating on her bf and because my gf hadn't rang me in the last few hours or txt I got it in my head she was cheating on me with her ex (her kids dad), I'm positive that tren and that jeremy kyle put that in my head, strangely enough tho, when I rang her she I couldn't get through to her phone for hours (totally un like her) when I finally did she was at his 'decorating his house' apparently just him and her, so I flipped' raging' I was like "I [email protected] NEW IT!!!" We split up cos of the way I went on then.... We laugh about it now tho


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I used 700mg test'p mast'p tren'ac ew 1.5-2years ago on a 6week cycle with 0.5mg caber e3d and my libido was through the roof like iv never felt before then it dropped off and struggled after 3weeks so I assume estrogen from the test went too high?

So if estrogen increased prolactin then high estrogen should lower cabers effectivness to some degree?

A study I read done on females 0.5mg e3d supressed prolactin by 72% and 1mg e3d supressed it by 76% making 0.5mg e3d the most effective dose (at natty female prolactin levels)

0.25mg e3d was something like 32% supression and 0.12mg e3d was 18% supression.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

stone14 said:


> I'm very chilled laid back and 700mg tren ac ew had me paranoid and snappy, I was waching jeremy kyle where 1 lass was cheating on her bf and because my gf hadn't rang me in the last few hours or txt I got it in my head she was cheating on me with her ex (her kids dad), I'm positive that tren and that jeremy kyle put that in my head, strangely enough tho, when I rang her she I couldn't get through to her phone for hours (totally un like her) when I finally did she was at his 'decorating his house' apparently just him and her, so I flipped' raging' I was like "I [email protected] NEW IT!!!" We split up cos of the way I went on then.... We laugh about it now tho


That Jeremy Kyle has a lot to answer for! When women have a dream that their man is cheating, it becomes their reality for a time and the man gets abuse for a dream she had. Maybe they have naturally occurring Tren.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Aye, it is all interesting to be honest. Have you used caber while using tren at all??


I may have missed it already , what sort of doses and cycles have you done /been doing ?

What sort of results?


----------



## Professorx (Mar 24, 2013)

I always run tren higher than test and I never had any issues. One time, after the end of my cycle(short esters), I stopped all and didnt do pct to know if I was a tren-dick responder : NOT. Good libido, no problem at all.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> I may have missed it already , what sort of doses and cycles have you done /been doing ?
> 
> What sort of results?


Well i did a few cycles with tren a few years back. Never wanted or felt the need to go over 300mg. I did a couple with higher test and 1 with lower test and found the sides just the same apart from lower libido on lower test. (Note: i never used an AI back when i did these, live and learn).

I used caber the last time i used tren and it appeared to really help with the sides, felt much better on it. Its been a good few years since my last cycle and im gonna be jumping back on the tren in the new year 300/300 test and tren with caber.


----------



## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Nytol said:


> I shall be very interested, as you seem like a sensible chap
> 
> I've worked too hard for my sanity over the last 5yrs to risk it for that gorgeous, golden indulgence, BUT, I would dearly love to have the good bits without the bad.


Ive always ran it at 50/50 with no problems at all and nothing but good gains, on my last stint I even went up to a gram of tren ac and a gram of test p each week along with a gram of mast p and 1000mcg methyl tren and still had nothing but goodness


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Well i did a few cycles with tren a few years back. Never wanted or felt the need to go over 300mg. I did a couple with higher test and 1 with lower test and found the sides just the same apart from lower libido on lower test. (Note: i never used an AI back when i did these, live and learn).
> 
> I used caber the last time i used tren and it appeared to really help with the sides, felt much better on it. Its been a good few years since my last cycle and im gonna be jumping back on the tren in the new year 300/300 test and tren with caber.


Ah right thought you might go down the low test route


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Ah right thought you might be go down the low test route


Well from experience i will always go the 50/50 route to be honest. As has been said previously, with tren always winning the race to the receptors. Having excess test having nothing to do but hang around could actually be what's exacerbating the tren sides but that's just pure speculation on my part.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

theBEAST2002 said:


> I've been saying hight tren low test for a while.


Over a year since I first asked if anyone had done it.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Well from experience i will always go the 50/50 route to be honest. As has been said previously, with tren always winning the race to the receptors. Having excess test having nothing to do but hang around could actually be what's exacerbating the tren sides but that's just pure speculation on my part.


It always will be speculation as know one can prove it really.

Im toying with the idea of a 6 weeker at 700 mg tren A for 3 and 3 at 150 ED to finish with 150mg test just to try it.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Archaic said:


> The last time I ran Tren my boy was 10 months old and the Mrs made it clear I wouldn't see either of them again if I carried on behaving the way I was.
> 
> I can't say for certain because I wasn't clinically diagnosed, but I believe I suffered a mini psychotic break. Without going into details, I basically made myself unemployable and if I didn't have my family to loose I believe I would have gone completely over the edge and done some things that there wouldn't have been any coming back from.
> 
> ...


Been there with tren E. Didn't like it, and filled me with horror afterwards. Been very careful since, was running a lot of tren A for a good while this year but with underdosed prop. Didnt get too ratty but was being super careful of myself. Hadn't a clue how detrimental prolactin can be to the process....was at odds with you in the past @funkdocta but you've nade a big contribution in this thread as have you Archaic, cheers men.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> It always will be speculation as know one can prove it really.
> 
> Im toying with the idea of a 6 weeker at 700 mg tren A for 3 and 3 at 150 ED to finish with 150mg test just to try it.


Yep would be very interesting to see someone run an 8-10 week cycle of just Tren E at say 300-400mg... see how the sides are, then add caber to see how well it works. I personally put the side effects down to large increases in prolactin.

We need some guinea pigs


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Nytol said:


> Would I be asking for other peoples experiences if I had?
> 
> My head goes esp bad on tren, deca and NPP, but I'm open to ideas on the specific reasons and what I could possibly do to combat those, that is why my interest in the thread.


Exactly the same, I love the good sides of deca, I can almost try to injure myself and nothing happens, recovery is instantaneous, pack on size just looking at food but f**k me does it depress the shyt out of me..tren the polar opposite..like a hairtrigger and mental to train all the time. Skin goes like crispy paper. Exactly what theyre meant to do...hoping somebody has some luck with this but no more than Archaic and yerself Nytol I'm very reluctant to take the plunge again.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

rectus said:


> That Jeremy Kyle has a lot to answer for! When women have a dream that their man is cheating, it becomes their reality for a time and the man gets abuse for a dream she had. Maybe they have naturally occurring Tren.


 :lol:


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Yep would be very interesting to see someone run an 8-10 week cycle of just Tren E at say 300-400mg... see how the sides are, then add caber to see how well it works. I personally put the side effects down to large increases in prolactin.
> 
> We need some guinea pigs


I'll give it a go if I can source some caber...TBH I always discounted Caber as a quack cure...actually thought it was a bloody herbal thing. As you ses yerself, live and learn.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

mixerD1 said:


> I'll give it a go if I can source some caber...TBH I always discounted Caber as a quack cure...actually thought it was a bloody herbal thing. As you ses yerself, live and learn.


Well its a dopamine agonist so will help with the tren blues.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

funkdocta said:


> Well its a dopamine agonist so will help with the tren blues.


Yep, i had a readup on it there awhile ago, like I ses, it's opened things up for me. Deca depresses me, tren is different, not quite depressing but certainly along the same lines. Cheers mate.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Pramipexole is a D2/D3/D4 agonist, it's far superior to Caber IMO. It's important to taper Prami upwards though starting from 0.125mg ED, if you don't taper I guarantee you will be vomiting before the day is out. I used to to taper up to 0.375mg ED, but have seen people run it higher.

Brilliant for reversing/preventing prolactin driven gyno, but it didn't do much in terms of preventing psychological Tren sides for me..

If you don't want to be messing around with tapering though and not severely prone to prolactin based sides, then Caber should do the job fine for most people.


----------



## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

Another thought is that this study mentiones prolactin burts into life after you have ''shot your load'' and this is what stops us having the drive or libido again, well I dont, im fine on tren and test, mast and proviron, I can go like a train within a few mins lol! This whole study is based on the thory of prolactin and lack of libido, which whith high test and tren I and many others dont suffer?


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

BoomTime said:


> Another thought is that this study mentiones prolactin burts into life after you have ''shot your load'' and this is what stops us having the drive or libido again, well I dont, im fine on tren and test, mast and proviron, I can go like a train within a few mins lol! This whole study is based on the thory of prolactin and lack of libido, which whith high test and tren I and many others dont suffer?


It's not a study! :lol:

It's an over the top, dramatic yanks opinion. Nothing more


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Ps. My take on the whole progesterone/prolactin debate is; We know Progestins up-regulate the progesterone receptor (PgR) and also the prolactin receptor/protein PRL-R mRNA. Tren has an approx 60% binding affinity to PgR and Deca has an approx 20% binding affinity to PgR - So in theory it's fair to say that on a mg for mg basis, you are 3x more likely to encounter progesterone/prolactin driven sides with Tren as you are Deca.

I'm a firm believer that the majority of progestagenic driven gyno sides can be prevented from occurring by running an AI though, as progesterone augments the stimulatory effect of oestrogen on the mammary tissue and there is a very strong synergy between oestrogen and progesterone. But, if you're particularly sensitive to prolactin like myself then it's definitely wise to be running a Dopaminergic alongside too IMO, such as Prami or Caber.


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

BoomTime said:


> Another thought is that this study mentiones prolactin burts into life after you have ''shot your load'' and this is what stops us having the drive or libido again, well I dont, im fine on tren and test, mast and proviron, I can go like a train within a few mins lol! This whole study is based on the thory of prolactin and lack of libido, which whith high test and tren I and many others dont suffer?


I agree with your observations regarding prolactin and refractory period.

It is one of the things that did not make sense regarding my theory on prolactin/dopamine.

Tren made me more horny than anything else ever, it was to the point of irritation.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BoomTime said:


> Another thought is that this study mentiones prolactin burts into life after you have ''shot your load'' and this is what stops us having the drive or libido again, well I dont, im fine on tren and test, mast and proviron, I can go like a train within a few mins lol! This whole study is based on the thory of prolactin and lack of libido, which whith high test and tren I and many others dont suffer?


Test and mast and proviron will all increase your libido to a dog on heat level. This for me is the only benefit of running higher test while on tren. Try just tren alone and see how well your libido does


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Archaic said:


> Pramipexole is a D2/D3/D4 agonist, it's far superior to Caber IMO. It's important to taper Prami upwards though starting from 0.125mg ED, if you don't taper I guarantee you will be vomiting before the day is out. I used to to taper up to 0.375mg ED, but have seen people run it higher.
> 
> Brilliant for reversing/preventing prolactin driven gyno, but it didn't do much in terms of preventing psychological Tren sides for me..
> 
> If you don't want to be messing around with tapering though and not severely prone to prolactin based sides, then Caber should do the job fine for most people.


That's good to no, if I had it I'd probably go for full dose 1st lol, what caused the vomiting?


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

stone14 said:


> That's good to no, if I had it I'd probably go for full dose 1st lol, what caused the vomiting?


It's quite a potent drug, it's primary use is to treat Parkinson's disease.

My mate went on it to reverse prolactin induced gyno a couple years back, he reckons I never told him about the taper, but I could have sworn I did.

He took 1mg straight off right before bed and spent the following 6 hours being violently sick over the toilet... He still holds a grudge about it to this day :laugh:


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Archaic said:


> It's quite a potent drug, it's primary use is to treat Parkinson's disease.


One thing that has not really been mentioned so far.

Dopamine agonists need to be treated with respect or they themselves can cause problems.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Nytol said:


> One thing that has not really been mentioned so far.
> 
> Dopamine agonists need to be treated with respect or they themselves can cause problems.


Oh yeah, for sure. I use Dopaminergics when running progestins because I need to. I learned that the hard way about 7yrs ago..


----------



## BoomTime (Feb 19, 2009)

funkdocta said:


> Test and mast and proviron will all increase your libido to a dog on heat level. This for me is the only benefit of running higher test while on tren. Try just tren alone and see how well your libido does


lol but this is the point im making why would you!, just because in a theory it reaches receptors quicker and then test is waisted?

this theory seems to only suggest high tren low test with caber to keep sex drive up, instead of all the other additional benefits test and tren has


----------



## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

stone14 said:


> That's good to no, if I had it I'd probably go for full dose 1st lol, what caused the vomiting?


How's ur heart been mate ?


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

BoomTime said:


> lol but this is the point im making why would you!, just because in a theory it reaches receptors quicker and then test is waisted?
> 
> this theory seems to only suggest high tren low test with caber to keep sex drive up, instead of all the other additional benefits test and tren has


Its not a theory. Tren does beat test to the receptors and you only have so many receptors (i cant be ****d trying to find the papers on it but you can google them). 

If you have never tried low or no test with tren and ran caber how do you know its not just as effective as running high test??  I think its something that needs more real world testing.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

So..... Any pictures from guys running Tren higher than test?


----------



## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

R0BLET said:


> So..... Any pictures from guys running Tren higher than test?


All dead


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Ginger Ben said:


> All dead


Pmsl

Serious though, a few have said in here what they've done etc but as @Chelsea said...... Evidence?


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

R0BLET said:


> Pmsl
> 
> Serious though, a few have said in here what they've done etc but as @Chelsea said...... Evidence?


Exactly.......Test has and as far as I can see will always be the base compound of a cycle and has been like that all these years for a reason.

No pics, no proof not trying.


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

R0BLET said:


> Pmsl
> 
> Serious though, a few have said in here what they've done etc but as @Chelsea said...... Evidence?


Iv already posted my results

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/241285-low-test-high-tren-cycle-results.html

It was never suppose to be a mass gainer or get huge cycle it was what it was .. and also an experiment for me to run tren again as I had given up on it and it that sense it worked..

Also I dont think anyone is saying low test high tren is better for building muscle over the other way round... Im not.. As they both work.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Dead lee said:


> Iv already posted my results
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/241285-low-test-high-tren-cycle-results.html
> 
> ...


Cheers mate, good stuff! :beer:


----------



## Andrewgenic (Jul 5, 2010)

Swaying me towards tren now


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Iv already posted my results
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/241285-low-test-high-tren-cycle-results.html
> 
> ...


Demz some lean gainz!  Good stuff!


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

reza85 said:


> How's ur heart been mate ?


Iv had my 2nd echo-gram so will know on the 4th december if its improved, that's when I see the doc again to talk about the results of the 2nd scan.


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

There's another ukm guy can't remember his name now but he's a regular also, he has high test/low tren and high tren/low test pics and the high tren/low test looks far better he also said it was a much better cycle all together.

But iv always thought if its estrogen that's the problem then surely a high test + tren cycle with an ai will give the same results as a high tren low test cycle?


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

stone14 said:


> But iv always thought if its estrogen that's the problem then surely a high test + tren cycle with an ai will give the same results as a high tren low test cycle?


Who said estrogen was the problem?


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

stone14 said:


> There's another ukm guy can't remember his name now but he's a regular also, he has high test/low tren and high tren/low test pics and the high tren/low test looks far better he also said it was a much better cycle all together.
> 
> But iv always thought if its estrogen that's the problem then surely a high test + tren cycle with an ai will give the same results as a high tren low test cycle?


well another theory i have, with tren basically hogging all the receptors a lot of the test ends up as free test which may be causing problems, as for estrogen an awful lot of guys run an AI which should prevent the est being the problem and these same guys get the bad tren sides.

Maybe hi progesteron/prolactin and low estrogen cause bad sides? In my opinion its all worth thinking about. Im still adamant that you really dont "need" test anymore than equal to your tren at most though.


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Nytol said:


> Who said estrogen was the problem?


some say tren side effects are due to high estrogen and why some started to experiment with the high tren /low test cycles.


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

funkdocta said:


> as for estrogen an awful lot of guys run an AI which should prevent the est being the problem and these same guys get the bad tren sides.
> 
> .


ah I see, well that's the high estrogen theory out the picture then lol, just going off what iv seen in other threads iv not ran high tren/low test yet. I always get tren dick so need caber Cialis and some form of dht. ai's even a small dose over kills my e' so I loose libido from that also, so think I might tren the high tren/ low test next time if I use tren again.


----------



## Love2DL (Aug 29, 2012)

Do you guys think prolactin is the cause of trensomnia? Anyone found taking caber helps?


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Love2DL said:


> Do you guys think prolactin is the cause of trensomnia? Anyone found taking caber helps?


I had no trouble sleeping last cycle, may have been the low test or the caber.. no way of telling.


----------



## Drunkenx (Nov 17, 2013)

Great post!


----------



## Ricer (May 13, 2012)

Will be running a low test higher tren cycle as of Jan with the use of Aromasin and caber. Will be 1st time using tren too.


----------



## trainiac (Sep 5, 2011)

I can verify the high tren/low test theory. I just finished an 8 week blast. I started with low tren/high test, plus high mast. Midway through, I cut the test a little and greatly increased the tren and my body and strength rapidly improved. I'm sold.

My question: will bromocriptine give the same libido boost that cabergoline does? Bromo is a lot cheaper.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

trainiac said:


> I can verify the high tren/low test theory. I just finished an 8 week blast. I started with low tren/high test, plus high mast. Midway through, I cut the test a little and greatly increased the tren and my body and strength rapidly improved. I'm sold.
> 
> My question: will bromocriptine give the same libido boost that cabergoline does? Bromo is a lot cheaper.


Any pics mate?

Rapid changes interests me and I get on well with Tren so I'm keen to see!


----------



## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

trainiac said:


> I can verify the high tren/low test theory. I just finished an 8 week blast. I started with low tren/high test, plus high mast. Midway through, I cut the test a little and greatly increased the tren and my body and strength rapidly improved. I'm sold.
> 
> My question: will bromocriptine give the same libido boost that cabergoline does? Bromo is a lot cheaper.


It is the side effects or lack of, that are more the point of the thread than the gains, do you have any feedback on those?

My personal interests lay in the psychological ones.


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

R0BLET said:


> Any pics mate?
> 
> Rapid changes interests me and I get on well with Tren so I'm keen to see!


If you want rapid changes then try tren suspension its amazing


----------



## trainiac (Sep 5, 2011)

No pics this round, sorry. Didn't take any. Going strictly by the mirror.


----------



## trainiac (Sep 5, 2011)

Nytol said:


> It is the side effects or lack of, that are more the point of the thread than the gains, do you have any feedback on those?
> 
> My personal interests lay in the psychological ones.


My typical tren sides are, in this order: 1) pumped 24/7, intensified during and after workout 2) often I get acid reflux, though not this time and I was on a higher than usual dosage 3) sometimes a little insomnia 4) sometimes stiff lower back, mostly due to the pump 5) slightly increased aggression, though as long as I keep aware of it, it's not a problem. I am sure that varies from person to person. In general, I find the younger one is (especially teens and early to mid 20s) the more prone to emotional fluctuations, with or without steroids.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

trainiac said:


> My typical tren sides are, in this order: 1) pumped 24/7, intensified during and after workout 2) often I get acid reflux, though not this time and I was on a higher than usual dosage 3) sometimes a little insomnia 4) sometimes stiff lower back, mostly due to the pump 5) slightly increased aggression, though as long as I keep aware of it, it's not a problem. I am sure that varies from person to person. In general, I find the younger one is (especially teens and early to mid 20s) the more prone to emotional fluctuations, with or without steroids.


What he/we want to know is....did you find that caber/bromo minimised or eliminated these sides??


----------



## MUFC 20 (Nov 19, 2013)

solidcecil said:


> Is it enanthate you're using?


Hey mate do Arimidex Nolva and Clomid stop prolactin ? thanks


----------



## trainiac (Sep 5, 2011)

mixerD1 said:


> What he/we want to know is....did you find that caber/bromo minimised or eliminated these sides??


I've never taken either of those ancillaries. The last cycle, I didn't even use an ai or serm. In the past I have, but I can't see a difference in the sides from using them or not.


----------



## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

MUFC 20 said:


> Hey mate do Arimidex Nolva and Clomid stop prolactin ? thanks


Nope. You need caber.


----------



## MUFC 20 (Nov 19, 2013)

MUFC 20 said:


> Hey mate do Arimidex Nolva and Clomid stop prolactin ? thanks


Yea pal currently in my second week of 400mg Test and 400mg Tren/e.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

trainiac said:


> I've never taken either of those ancillaries. The last cycle, I didn't even use an ai or serm. In the past I have, but I can't see a difference in the sides from using them or not.


Well from what I've been reading caber or bromocriptine stop the pituitary gland producing prolactin. I dont thik AI's or SERMs produce prolactin. Ah feck it, everyones different, was just asking for a bit of personal experience mate.


----------

