# need to gain weight



## staffy11 (Feb 7, 2006)

hi all im 5 foot 9 and 9stone ive got a multi gym and i go tthe gym once a week im reli skinny i feel like a weirdo in the gym but thats not my concern i need to gain loyts off weight im still at skool and my m8s are big and beefey i would like to put lots off muscle on and show off for a change cheers all


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## Kirk (Feb 9, 2006)

Just eat plenty!


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Kirk said:


> Just eat plenty!


Not a truer word has been spoken by many a fat muscley slob in the gym. 

Look around the site staffy and read some of the articles in the reading room.

Then you need to post up your diet plan and training schedule and we will help you as much as possible.


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

I used to be in your shoes mate, I was just over 9 stone when I was at school and it's damn embarassing. Increase your food intake mate, NEVER EVER MISS BREAKFAST! train hard and eat lots and you'll bulk up in no time! like tinytom said just have a browse around the forums and you'll find plenty of information that will benfit you. And mate you shouldn't feel like a wierdo in the gym because no-one cares if you're skinny, everyone is in the gym for the same reason to make themselves in there eyes better so don't be afraid to ask people for help!


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## Tainted (Feb 19, 2006)

All I can say learn to train properly before tearing something and hampering your progress later on in life! I have a shoulder injury that to this day plagues me and could have been prevented perhaps?

Also never be afraid to ask someone a question. Everyone has been there, walking around a gym and not knowing what to do first or should we say what to look silly at first... sitting there the wrong way on a machine (I admitt it!!) or trying to push dumbell that are too heavy and look like you waving down planes at Heathrow airport!

Get a good program, learn the moves and enjoy the learning curve and eat what's on your plate.. your mom's plate... your dad plates heck anyone brave enough to eat near you!! 6 - 7 meals and you will be rocking.

Before you know it you will be answering the little guys questions.

P.S. (Pro-Lab N-Large2 is decent for calories and hard gainers just watch that you gaining good muscle and not fat)


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

Kirk said:


> Just eat plenty!


totally agree with this but dont think you should be eating pies and doner kebabs!

one of the best pieces of advice i was given at the beginning was to drink lots of milk. good balance of carbs and protein and very cheap also. weightgainers are expensive but they work although there are more natural ways you could do this. try adding six eggs to some oatmeal with a tsp of olive oil and some milk and you have a natural weightgainer


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

NLarge has far too much in the way of sugar and massive servings for the amount of protein in there, in my opinion- somebody who buys this doesnt know any better to get a decent product or simply wants something cheap 

compare its ingredients to something like reflex instant mass, the instant mass is a gainer in another league completely.

milk- it has protein yes, it has carbs yes, 100% of carbs in milk are sugar. fine if you want something convenient and dont care about the effects sugars can have in your body, but again- better things out there.

interesting comparison i was told about sugar while i am on the subject. due to the fact sugar can strip your body of its nutrients it can fall under a dictionary definition of poison lol


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

bdc said:


> NLarge has far too much in the way of sugar and massive servings for the amount of protein in there, in my opinion- somebody who buys this doesnt know any better to get a decent product or simply wants something cheap


Funny hasn't done me any harm. 

I would only recommend it for after workout due to the sugar levels


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

it might not have done you any harm but it doesnt mean a better supplement wouldnt have been more effective


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Sure but your original statement implied that I don't know what I am talking about?

N-Large is ideal for after workout because of the sugars and Protein content and would be good for ease of use.

There are other supplements available but I didn't see you recommending anything yourself except Reflex which is a good supplement but definately not ina league of it's own as you put it. If you are going to make statements like this then at least back it up with some reasons why.

Supplements is all about timing and I agree that N-Large isn't the best one during the day because of sugar content but this is excatly what you need after a workout. I think too many people get caught up with supplements that they neglect other aspects of the diet. a PWO shake is only 1 meal out of 6.

I'm interested in the comment you made about sugar being a poison, can you tell me what article you read about this or where on the net you read it as I'd like to read about it also. It is always good to get new ideas and views on nutrtition.


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

i understand it meets post workout requirement in the respect that it has sugars in it, but you are buying a tub of a supplement purely for post workout, why not add glucose to your existing whey and save the money? i could buy a complex carb weight gainer, one with sugars, some form of casein product and some simple whey to meet my generic mrp needs, my post workout needs, my bedtime needs and for additional protein needs, instead i buy whey and then add my own carbohydrates accordingly, which i am sure you will work out as being more cost effective, allowing you to put in the exact measurements of anything you are adding in.

regarding the poison comment it was mentioned by one of the tutors on my course, not meant for specific science just a comparison between the fact sugars can strip your body of nutrients as can mild poisons


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

Tinytom said:


> Funny hasn't done me any harm.
> 
> I would only recommend it for after workout due to the sugar levels


Again with the funnies Tom, too much mate.

Hey BDC, post up a pic mate, you sound like you know your sh1t, you must be in real good shape.


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

thats a huge assumption, almost like "i listened to the big guy at the gym, he is huge so his method of training must be right!". i havent been training long enough to be overly impressive to be honest, i would hate to think that if my picture wasnt impressive it would stop people listening to my thoughts. in honesty though, i am not that big or strong in comparison, only been training for three years ish, but my routine and diet are good when i have the time to concentrate on them, its hard to focus at the moment with my course being so heavy but i have put on 2 and a half stone in the last 5 months ish just by tweaking a few things. it could be more impressive but you have to keep in mind i dont train for size


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

i know where your coming on from the " big guy thing ", the fact that you have come here and spouted a couple your thoughts without any hard evidence to support your theories, and in doing so tried to suggest that one of our mods who happens to be one of the best our country has to offer in our sport just riles me a little.

All that aside though, anyone who can put on that much weight as fast as you say you did has to look ok, post up a pick mate and lets get some points of view.

And although i know where your coming from on the big guy issue, id still take the info of a national competitor or big guy over some guy who is not prepared to back up what he,s saying by hard evidence or a pic at least.


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

although i see what you are saying, it really does boil down to; does the condition hes in mean he has more knowledge? in comparison tinytom is in far far better shape than me without a doubt, does that mean without the same time and circumstances i couldnt be in better shape? no, does that mean he makes faster progress than me? no, not necessarily. I am not doubting that he knows a lot, you cannot get to such a physical state without having extensive knowledge (unless you are trained personally and every aspect of your life is sorted for you).

let me put it to you like this; a guy was talking to me about his hypertrophy theory compared to someone else who coached at olympic level, he was convinced his was better, when i asked him what it was he said a bodypart a day, intensive training. when i asked him about the fact that numerous studies have proved that training the same bodypart twice a week instead of once has given far better results his answer was something along the lines of "i will take my top off and show you" i.e. his physique speaks for itself, needless to say just because he can squat almost 300kg, and at around 17 stone in very good shape doesnt mean he knows more than mr x who has been training a couple of years with good results, it just looks like he knows more due to his current condition.

to back up my first point, and i am sure tom will agree with me, nlarge on its own doesnt stand well as a general meal replacement due to its high sugar content and poor carbrotein ratio (there are far better weight gainers out there), even for post workout needs, on its own it doesnt have as much in the way of simple carbs as someone who trains with heavy weights looking for hypertrophy would want (i am sure most people on here who take glucose post workout take more than 28g)- therefore not making it optimal, and to finish off, £30 ish lasts 18 servings, making it not very good value for money in comparison with many other products.

i could post a picture up and everyone would see that tom is in far better shape than me, but it proves nothing other than he has been training longer and probably has more dedication lol. I believe that tom himself knows that nlarge isnt a great product even for post workout purposes alone, how would somebody benefit more from this compared to whey (with a decent amino acid profile) and some glucose alone? they wouldnt, except their wallet will be lighter. Ramble over


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Yeah I agree with most of that. N-Large isn't the best on the market but my point was that it would be a good start for a beginner to take PWO due to everything you need being in it. I actually use N-large with Whey Isolate, BCAAs and also a Pro GF after workout which gives a massive serving of sugars BCAAs and protein, but that's what I need when I'm using Insulin (5iu PWO) for safety reasons.

The debate on training frequency has raged for years and I don't think that we can solve it here but I will say that most of those studies on twice a day training focus on one area of the body and aren't geared towards bodybuilders more olympic athletes looking to progress in one field.

Twice a week training for bodybuilders doesn't work as well as once a week because of recovery time. All these studies have been done with people who don't work a full time job but more professional or paid athletes who can devote the recovery time needed for this style of training. If I didn't have to work every day then I would be training every bodypart twice a week as well but it just doesn't fit into an everyday lifestyle.

Nearly every bodybuilder I know would agree with this. Until a study is done using specifically bodybuilders for examination then I don't think that this training methodology can be applied to bbing. And by bodybuilders I mean guys who live the life not someone who trains every now and again and maybe drinks a protein shake twice a week which are usually the case models for the miraculous results studies. Sedentary individuals or people who just train to be fit would benefit greatly from a change in training style but a bodybuilder who has been lifting and competing for years is a different animal.

Saying that though I have backed off on the heavy lifting in my workouts over the last few years and don't push to failure on every set but I still only train one bodypart a week.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bdc said:


> although i see what you are saying, it really does boil down to; does the condition hes in mean he has more knowledge?


Yes it does because without the knowledge guys like Tom have you would not be able to achieve this type of condition and by knowledge i mean real life knowledge as well as knowledge from books websites etc..



bdc said:


> in comparison tiny tom is in far far better shape than me without a doubt, does that mean without the same time and circumstances i couldn't be in better shape? no, does that mean he makes faster progress than me? no, not necessarily


Tom has been training for relatively small amount of time compared to some and he has already achieved a top 3 position at the 2005UKFBB British Finals....the reason for this is GENETICS...simple as that i have been training nearly twice as long as Tom and he has a better physique than me onstage again this is down to GENETICS....you have been training for 3yrs and have gained over 2 stones in the last 5months if you had the GENETICS that TOM or I have you would have a decent physique....




bdc said:


> let me put it to you like this; a guy was talking to me about his hypertrophy theory compared to someone else who coached at olympic level, he was convinced his was better, when i asked him what it was he said a bodypart a day, intensive training. when i asked him about the fact that numerous studies have proved that training the same bodypart twice a week instead of once has given far better results his answer was something along the lines of "i will take my top off and show you" i.e. his physique speaks for itself, needless to say just because he can squat almost 300kg, and at around 17 stone in very good shape doesnt mean he knows more than mr x who has been training a couple of years with good results, it just looks like he knows more due to his current condition.


Again this is down to GENETICS.....

i get very annoyed when someone implies that they could be just as good as a high level competing athlete if they only could be bothered it is very disrespectful...

It takes more than passing a course to be able to consider yourself knowledgeable...

Now post a pic up of yourself it does not matter that you have not been training for size but adding 2+stone in 5 months is impressive so lets see the results.......


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

My two cents worth here.

Did you know that whole milk is very low in the GI?

That lactose carbohydrate is very low at spiking insulin due to the fat in the milk.

Potato gram for gram is higher spiking than sugar.

Potato is all glucose where sugar is half fructose and glucose.

Sugar in itself is bad but if you slow down the carbohydrate with fiber and or fat, the body does not know the diffrence from sugar or any other carbohydrate.

That is the beauty about macrobiotics, where you can manipulate the glycemic load of any carbohydrate.

I agree tho that sugar is not a good carb, mostly for being so high in the glycemic index and so low in nutritional value.

But if you had no other carb then that would have to do.

Another thing, after a workout you are actually insulin sensitive and it does not take much to spike insulin after a workout.

Some guys use oats and whey.


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

its an incredible amount of weight, he should post up regardless of what nick hes in.


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> Yes it does because without the knowledge guys like Tom have you would not be able to achieve this type of condition and by knowledge i mean real life knowledge as well as knowledge from books websites etc..
> 
> Tom has been training for relatively small amount of time compared to some and he has already achieved a top 3 position at the 2005UKFBB British Finals....the reason for this is GENETICS...simple as that i have been training nearly twice as long as Tom and he has a better physique than me onstage again this is down to GENETICS....you have been training for 3yrs and have gained over 2 stones in the last 5months if you had the GENETICS that TOM or I have you would have a decent physique....
> 
> ...


we have our wires crossed here, when i said his condition doesnt mean he has more knowledge- you have to realise that my point is, the better condition someone is in doesnt necessarily mean they have more knowledge, there are world renowned experts out there that do not have a lot of size, its not their goal, but it doesnt mean they arent extremely knowledgeable- hence me leaning towards the point that my physique is irrelevant in backing up my point.

obviously i understand the role genetics have to play in building muscle, you only have to understand somatotypes to realise people respond differently. my original point "does that mean without the same time and circumstances i couldn't be in better shape? no" - i understand how you got confused with the point i am making, my genetics might make it impossible for me to reach his aesthetical level in the same time frame, but there is still a possibility (keeping in mind the role aas play in bodybuilding its hard to deny this).

i know its not down to "if i could be bothered i could be in that shape", it takes extreme determination and undeniable commitment. i didnt imply that a course makes someone 'knowledgeable' by any means, knowledgeable is subjective in the way we refer to it, although there is no denying that people go on courses without any prior knowledge and leave with enough information for them to be considered knowledgeable by someone out there. i am not posting a picture up for reasons i dont think i should have to justify but as jimmy keeps asking 1) i came on here to test my knowledge, its not my usual forum 2) knowledge and physique dont correlate, if tinytom stopped training and wasnt at his current level it wouldnt make him any less knowledgeable, basically as i am breaking into the fitness industry, i came on here to see how i could apply my knowledge and come here for nothing more than that, i dont think its necessary to see someones physique when that is all they are here for- you must respect that i dont come here to get to know people, chat about things i would talk to people face to face about or anything other than intellectual reasons, i live in a very small area where nobody i know can chat to me on a level which stimulates me to the extent i would like to be, you must appreciate that i use this for other reasons to a lot of people and some people dont feel comfortable posting half naked pictures of themselves, especially when they know people on the board and wish to remain anonymous. please respect the decision and not make a mountain out of a molehill. long winded but got there.


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

hackskii- lactose itself will be lower gi than galactose as it is a disaccharide when compared to glucose which is a monosaccharide. sucrose is the same and has a surprisingly low gi.

regarding the sugars with fibre + fat, although fat and fibres are two of many factors which affect the glycemic load of a meal, it is obviously still going to have a higher impact than something of a low gi in the first place. although i am sure you will know this i point it out purely because it would be very easy to people to consume things high in sugar as part of every day life but argue the point that the fibre occuring naturally in the apple they ate with it slows down the gi enough to make it 'healthy'.

sugar offers no nutritional benefits other than the energy which anything from the carbohydrate family could offer, this was the point regarding its comparison to poison. due to the fact it strips the body of nutrients without adding anything beneficial, it fell under one scientists definition of a poison- quite an interesting fact to pull out from time to time


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

The problem with your arguement is the fact that lactose is found in milk and it is not something you just pick up off the shelf.

Whole milk is very low in the GI.

There is no way around it.

Sugar is no diffrent than any other carbohydrate in that it is a source of fuel. It is the carbohydrates inpact on insulin that is the issue.

Any carb that spikes insulin can be a problem.

It does not matter if it is pasta, rice, potato, bananna, anything.

Adjusting the macronutrients of any meal can make it healthy even sugar.

Too much insulin for too long in the body is a very bad thing. It causes inflammation. The only way of controlling this is down to using the other macro's to tailor the spiking of the meal.

Adding fiber, protein and fat to the sugar for instance is fine.

But again repeating myself other carbs offer other minerals, nutrients, enzymes, phtochemicals, anti-oxidants, polyphenols, sapponins and a ton of other stuff.

I am saying that sugar is ok but I would not live on it.

There are better carbs than sugar but for a meal its fine.

Like maple syrup and bacon, cook up some bacon in maple syrup.

Man is that stuff good.

You will get the carbs from the syrup, fat and protein from the bacon. Its all good.

All carbohydrates offer the same nutritional value it is fuel and that is it.

It is the foods that are with the carbs that offer the health benefits.

So sugar is not less nutritional than lets say maltose, dextrose, sucrose, lactose, glucose, fructose, it is all just fuel.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bdc said:


> basically as i am breaking into the fitness industry, i came on here to see how i could apply my knowledge and come here for nothing more than that, i dont think its necessary to see someones physique when that is all they are here for- you must respect that i dont come here to get to know people.


this is your problem..

you are breaking into the fitness industry which is great but you are posting up overcomplicated post's that shouts *I AM ON A COURSE AND THIS IS WHAT I LEARNED TODAY *

this board is not just for information we are a friendly bunch and from your last statement i get the impression you are using this board as a type of test base for what you learned in school that day...

the fact that you say this



BDC said:


> you must respect that i don't come here to get to know people.


 says volumes to me ...

it is your prerogative not to post up a pic but then it was you who was boasting about gaining 2+stone in 5 months....:rolleye11

if you took your head out of the books once in a while and looked how most of the time how guys build decent physiques not only ones like mine and Toms you will find that the Book rules can and do get bended all the time...


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

i referred to the amount of sugar within nlarge, its hardly going to be something i learned on a course, it was something i would have said before starting any of this- not an 'overcomplicated statement' and one with which tom agreed with quite admirably. i dont want to get to know people especially because i dont want to spend a lot of time on here- understandably some people arent as big a fan of the internet as others. i do use this board for knowledge rather than general nice chit chat but its a forum devoted to training, lifestyle and nutrition, i am not wasting time engaging in chat with people here when i could chat with people i can see. i didnt realise my post was going to have such an effect on someone, you are the only person that has objected to the way i post so far. posting pics and talking about gains are massively different because i am not a bodybuilder and dont train for aesthetics, think of it as a powerlifter who doesnt show off his body because he is fat and not 'aesthetically pleasing' although he has trained to the point of amazing maximal strength. you are getting a bit too involved with me for someone that has advertising links to a supplement company in their signature, it doesnt really come across as overly professional if you dont mind me saying so, this is getting pettier and pettier, i believe it should be left at this. if you have problems feel free to voice them with me, this is more hassle than its worth- it was a conversation about sugar...


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

To be fair BDC you don't help your case by keeping anonymous and not posting the sources from where you get your study info.

Lots of studies are flawed when applied outside the area of examination, say for example a study on swimmers has no relevance to bodybuilding.

I don't mind admitting I'm wrong but I am not wrong when I talked about N-Large being a suitable PWO shake. You wouldn't even admit that.

There's a guy on my other forum who posts like you and ended up being hated and ridiculed by all the other board members. Maybe you should read your posts back and think what it would be like to read that from a neutral point of view.

Also you say you are only here to get info but all you've done so far is dictate your own opinions and haven't asked any questions, why even bother posting if you know it all?

I'm not insulting you I just think you've got a different idea about what you want.

If you know everything then great, post up some relevant studies and info, I enjoy learning too, that's how I got so good


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bdc said:


> you are getting a bit too involved with me for someone that has advertising links to a supplement company in their signature, it doesnt really come across as overly professional if you dont mind me saying so, this is getting pettier and pettier, i believe it should be left at this. if you have problems feel free to voice them with me, this is more hassle than its worth- it was a conversation about sugar...


I am sponsored by Extreme i don't try to hide this fact so please tell me why this is unprofessional??

I don't see why this is petty....i have read most of your post's and as Tom as already pointed out you tend to dictate to others and quote from studies but don't give the source...

Like i said before if members don't want to show pics this is their choice but most don't boast about massive weight gains in short periods of time(which you clearly did)...

now i can see that when your opinions are challenged you get offended so i will not challenge your views on this thread no more....


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## bdc (Jan 27, 2006)

i dont understand why i got negative rep points

"no carb offers nutrition outside of the energy period" after my comment on sugar, if you consumed organic oats for example you are going to get vitamins and minerals which sugar doesnt offer you, which was the point i was getting at...

tinytom- i will try and clear a few things up in the vague order you pointed out

i understand studies arent always reliable and even conclusive evidence has variables which might not necessarily apply to the everyday person. i never stated a source but neither did anyone else. i agree with the fact nlarge is appropriate post workout, i didnt mention it because i still believe it is a lot cheaper for somebody to make their own, i do appreciate a beginner might feel lost doing this so agree with your point (i am still surprised someone at your level uses it instead of making their own though). i have asked questions but not on this thread so if anyone has some decent information on the efficiency of absorption and absorption rates of supplemental and dietary bcaas i would be very grateful, as i would be very grateful for a link or name of the study that hackskii mentioned in the low carb thread. i hope this clears things up, after taking your advice on board and rereading some of my own posts they do come across as overly critical for which i apologise, however pscarb's first post isnt the most polite by any means so when i replied to him i wasnt overly nice in return. hope that cleared up your points, no hard feelings


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well this is the problem I had and I dont like to go off typic on a non related thread.

The guy that was having trouble losing the 25 lbs he gained on a low carb diet got blasted by a debate on why low carb diets are not good.

WTF, the guy posts one post and probably will never come back.

It ended up in a debate and the poor guy only got very little if any info back.

Did this help the guy?....NO

Did it help to come to a conclusion on low carb diets?...No

The poor guys is confused and probably will never come back.

I was a bout two seconds from deleting all posts and just helping the guy out.

This off topic ranting has got to stop.


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