# T3?



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Anyone tried T3, clen and ECA and care to share with me their experiences?

Can anyone enlighten me on an unbiased overview of the dangers of T3?

How long do you run it for and at what dose?

Cheers


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Three different substances mate, working in three very different ways. All do their job, you'll lose weight on all of them. I'll go over what I consider to be the best way of running them below, and then my honest opinion on the best of them....

*T3* - TriIodoThyronine - the more potent of the thyroid hormones in the body. Your body doesn't produce much directly from the Thyroid gland, but the T4 it does produce is broken down into T3 at a cellular level. THe release of T4 and T3 is controlled by another two hormones called TRH (Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone) and TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone). In a nutshell low T3 in the body causes the Hypothalamus to release TRH, which then causes the Pituitary Gland to release TSH, which causes the Thyroid Gland to release T4 and a little T3.

Why all the background? I hear you scream - well it will help you understand why the method below is the most efficient way of running T3. There are two schools of thought about T3 - run it at a fixed dose long term. or use the ramp and temp method. If you run say 100mcg long term - this will force your levels of TRH and TSH to fall and the bodies natural production of Thyroid will stop. So the initial hike in T3 you got in the beginning that will help you lose weight, will not be there and the 100mcg will basically just be the amount you need each day to function. So fat loss will slow or stop.

The other method (ramp and temp) requires you use a thermometer. And goes this:

1/. Take you normal resting body temp. well before or after exercise - not this down. We'll call this your base temp

2/. take 25mcg T3 and measure your tem an hour later - not this down (it may not have changed.

3/. next day take 50mcg and take your temp - you will probably notice a small raise in temp

4/. then 75mcg and take temp

5/. what you are looking for is about a 1 degree C rise in temp, once you get this, the dose you have just taken is your working dose.

6/. Take your temp each day an hour after taking the T3, the moment it is the same as your original base temp stop taking the T3, no ramp down just stop. This temp drop will take about 2 weeks normally

after 4 days, maybe 5 later your natty T3 levels will be back up to around normal. wait until you have had 2 weeks after your last dose and you can go again. same process.

*Clenbuterol* - Clen is a Beta Agonist, and affect the Beta receptors at a cellular level. This increases the amount of free Epinephrine (Adrenaline) acting on your cells, this burns fat. Simples!  the downside is that your Beta receptors downregulate and clen loses its effectiveness over time, so should be cycled. there are ways around this and I will cover this below.

The way to run clen is: Clen normally comes in 40mcg tabs. Take one and see how you react - if you start shaking - dont panic - this is your dose. If you dont the then next day take 80mcg - again if you shake then 80 is your dose. The shakes should only be very mild - it you look like you're having a fit then it is too much. :lol: Take your shaky dose for 2 weeks. Shakes will stop after a couple of days - this is normal - dont up your dose this will just downregulate you faster. Run for a total of 2 weeks from the point you took your first tab. Ten take 2 weeks off before you start again.

As I mentioned Clen downregulates the Beta receptors. You can counteract this by taking either ketitofen (from your source) or DiphenHydramine HCL - this is found in the Nytol you have to ask the pharmacist for, or Tesco's own brand version. Again MUST come from a pharmacist. The Nytol you get off the shelf is herbal and has no DPH in it. Ketitofen is best out of the two but Nytol does work. Take one before bed as they will make you drowsy. Will keep the effectiveness of Clen higher. I would still recommend you run it 2 on 2off just to give you a break.

*ECA* - Ephedrine Caffeine Aspirin - read this http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/140702-eca-comprehensive-guide.html first. Eph is an alpha agonist (and to a lesser extent also a beta one) and does a similar job to clen, but at a lower rate. the C and A keep the Eph locked in and more effective - done run just EC its will not give you the same. Run the home brew stack fro the article above, upto 3 times a day. never after 4 or 5 in the afternoon or you wont sleep.  Eph downregulates eth Alpha receptors but there is no way of countering this - so must be cycles 2on/2off.

now for the other part.

I have used them all. Personally not a fan of T3 - a lot claim that there are no ill effects and that you will just bounce back - and I did when using it. However I know a very well respected member here that actually shut his thyroid down due to long term use of T3, and is now on prescribed T4 every day of his life. Will only use T3 now if running DNP, as the synthesis of T4 to T3 is interrupted by DNP, so you add in extra T3 to keep you going.

Clen is great - you will lose weight, and sweat like a MOFo on it when doing cardio. I do like Clen - tend to run it 20mcg below my shake point, just for personal comfort. Clen will lift your metabolism by about 8-10%, so will burn (assuming you are on 3000 cals a day) a max of 300 cals. If you put the cardio in it will burn more as your BMR goes up.

ECA again is a great fat loss aid, and I have had good losses on it. ECA's lift is may be 5%, possibly 6%. Again if you do the maths you will see how much it will help.

My choice would be Clen then ECA then T3. If you have never run any of these - go with eth home brew ECA stack first, just so you know what it feels like.

A word of caution, if you suffer any sort of anxiety or panic attacks, ten these will make it worse, in some cases much worse.

None of these are a panacea that will just make the weight disappear, only one drug, or lipo suction, will do that, and the drug is cheaper and I think gives better results.

hope this helps, and feel free to ask questions.


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

Wow @DiggyV


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

mrssalvatore said:


> Wow @DiggyV


Thanks mate. :thumb:


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> Thanks mate. :thumb:


Lol you're welcome..... Needed a cuppa break half way through that..


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

mrssalvatore said:


> Lol you're welcome..... Needed a cuppa break half way through that..


me too when I wrote the bugger.


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## mrssalvatore (Apr 13, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> me too when I wrote the bugger.


Lol I can imagine!! It's good that you put so much effort into each post ! Makes a change from the normal rif raf you get........!


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Cheers mate. I do get anxiety when on stimulants, but I'm gonna purchase some corn

Is it worth running both clen and t3 together?


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## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Isn't EPH a Beta agaonist not Alpha @DiggyV


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> *T3* - TriIodoThyronine - the more potent of the thyroid hormones in the body. Your body doesn't produce much directly from the Thyroid gland, but the T4 it does produce is broken down into T3 at a cellular level. THe release of T4 and T3 is controlled by another two hormones called TRH (Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone) and TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone). In a nutshell low T3 in the body causes the Hypothalamus to release TRH, which then causes the Pituitary Gland to release TSH, which causes the Thyroid Gland to release T4 and a little T3.
> 
> Why all the background? I hear you scream - well it will help you understand why the method below is the most efficient way of running T3. There are two schools of thought about T3 - run it at a fixed dose long term. or use the ramp and temp method. If you run say 100mcg long term - this will force your levels of TRH and TSH to fall and the bodies natural production of Thyroid will stop. So the initial hike in T3 you got in the beginning that will help you lose weight, will not be there and the 100mcg will basically just be the amount you need each day to function. So fat loss will slow or stop.
> 
> ...


Why you take the T3 for such a short period of time? It's because you're afraid of getting shut down after long term use or there are other reasons?


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

xpower said:


> Isn't EPH a Beta agaonist not Alpha @DiggyV


Its actually a really poor ligand for the Beta Receptor - this is a common misconception and a lot of people believe this, it does hit the beta receptor, but hits the Alphas a lot lot harder.

Even the Wiki entry has it as an Alpha, with no mention as a beta, although it does also hit the beta receptors, just not very well.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ujelly said:


> Why you take the T3 for such a short period of time? It's because you're afraid of getting shut down after long term use or there are other reasons?


No its because as I explained, if you take it for a short time you are getting a bigger hit from the T3, as it is added to your natural levels. The natty levels take a while to shut down - maybe 2 weeks (this is the point that your temp gets back to normal in the method I outline). While there is a chance you will permanently shut down your own T4/T3 production - I know a person personally that this has happened to and now is prescribed T4 every day - the risk is low, so no it has nothing to do with that.

If you just bang in 100mcg or 125mcg a day then after 2 weeks you will only just be above the levels you normally have in your body naturally, and so fat loss will be slow - in fact IMO you would be better off running a little more cardio each week.

If you want to prove it to your self, use your body temp again. Take it before you start a course of T3, and monitor it every day. If it gets back to normal again - then the T3 is having no effect any more. If your body temp remains elevated then it is still burning.

However my personal preference is to maximise the effect of it and my natty T4/T3, without just banging in high doses which can lead to other sides like Cardiac Arrhythmia, which really doesn't feel nice at all.

Boby Temp must be elevated for it to be really having any measurable effect.


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## td_xx (May 20, 2013)

I use t5s there the strongest, better than t3s. I love them give me so much energy before the gym especially cardio. They are dangerous but as long as your not silly with them id recommend them.

Clen for me was horrible. Gave me headaches and couldnt stop shaking on them lol.

Have you tried cla or thermapure?


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> No its because as I explained, if you take it for a short time you are getting a bigger hit from the T3, as it is added to your natural levels. The natty levels take a while to shut down - maybe 2 weeks (this is the point that your temp gets back to normal in the method I outline). While there is a chance you will permanently shut down your own T4/T3 production - I know a person personally that this has happened to and now is prescribed T4 every day - the risk is low, so no it has nothing to do with that.
> 
> If you just bang in 100mcg or 125mcg a day then after 2 weeks you will only just be above the levels you normally have in your body naturally, and so fat loss will be slow - in fact IMO you would be better off running a little more cardio each week.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks.

EDIT: Do you have any experience with T3 + T4? I've heard people say you get a better recovery If you start taking T4 at the end of your T3 cycle but not much info on It.



td_xx said:


> I use t5s there the strongest, better than t3s. I love them give me so much energy before the gym especially cardio. They are dangerous but as long as your not silly with them id recommend them.
> 
> Clen for me was horrible. Gave me headaches and couldnt stop shaking on them lol.
> 
> Have you tried cla or thermapure?


T5 isn't a thyroid hormone, from what I've heard, It's pretty much just ECA stack. In that case, there is no way It's better than T3. Clen sides depends way too much on the person, but It really shouldn't be hard for you to find a dose that doesn't give you much sides.


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## td_xx (May 20, 2013)

Whats the difference between t5s and t3s i thought they were both just fat burners?

Do you use a pre work out? I tried jack 3d but it wasnt the best. Can you suggest another?x


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

td_xx said:


> I use t5s there the strongest, better than t3s. I love them give me so much energy before the gym especially cardio. They are dangerous but as long as your not silly with them id recommend them.
> 
> Clen for me was horrible. Gave me headaches and couldnt stop shaking on them lol.
> 
> Have you tried cla or thermapure?


You really really need to research before you make such statements. T3 and T4 are the thyroid hormones, T5 is a generic name for the ECA stack - completely different and NOTHING to do with strength. Its like comparing a dog with a house brick - completely different. In fact 90%+ of all T5s out there will not contain ANY Ephedrine at all, a lot claim 'EPH' and is in fact Ephedra, the plant you get Ephedrine from, not the same thing. Most T5s are crap. I know of some T5s that were in fact Warrior Blaze.



td_xx said:


> Whats the difference between t5s and t3s i thought they were both just fat burners?
> 
> Do you use a pre work out? I tried jack 3d but it wasnt the best. Can you suggest another?x


No see above - also perhaps read the first post I made in this thread - the long one on the first page. That should help.

Also research and read before you just come in and ask questions that have been answered dozens of times before, including in the thread you post in. Do this and people will give you all the help you need.

A good starting point for REAL ECA is here:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/losing-weight/140702-eca-comprehensive-guide.html

from there you will find links to several other articles and lists of fat burners.

EDIT: Just noticed in another thread you are female - ignore my comment above - all of the blokes in here that think they have a chance will help you no matter what you ask. :lol:


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ujelly said:


> Interesting. Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: Do you have any experience with T3 + T4? I've heard people say you get a better recovery If you start taking T4 at the end of your T3 cycle but not much info on It.


NO need to do anything with T4. T4 is not used directly in the body, it is converted to T3 at the cellular level. The single bext way to recovery, if you can put up with a couple of days feeling sluggish, is to just stop taking T3, no ramp down. This is the fastest way for your body to restart its T4/T3 production. If you dont want the lethargy, then ramp down 25mcg every 2 days. Simples.


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

DiggyV said:


> NO need to do anything with T4. T4 is not used directly in the body, it is converted to T3 at the cellular level. The single bext way to recovery, if you can put up with a couple of days feeling sluggish, is to just stop taking T3, no ramp down. This is the fastest way for your body to restart its T4/T3 production. If you dont want the lethargy, then ramp down 25mcg every 2 days. Simples.


Someone told me that taking T4 could speed up the recovery from T3 cycle, since he wasn't able to explain why I wasn't too confident on that.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

ujelly said:


> Someone told me that taking T4 could speed up the recovery from T3 cycle, since he wasn't able to explain why I wasn't too confident on that.


Can't see it mate, the route is:

Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TRH) generated in Hypothalamus in response to low thyroid levels (mainly T3 levels)

TRH triggers Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) in the Pituitary

TSH triggers the thyroid gland to release T4 and a little bit of T3

T4 converted to T3

T3 converted to T2 and T1 (these have little or no effect on the metabolism)

Adding T4 is only one stage from adding T3, and as its the T3 level that determines the natty release, then adding exogenous T4, is not going to be any different than adding T3.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

WilsonR6 said:


> Cheers mate. I do get anxiety when on stimulants, but I'm gonna purchase some corn
> 
> Is it worth running both clen and t3 together?


 @WilsonR6 - I wouldn't you'll have your hands full with the Clen 

Also TBH if you have not run any of them before - then try each individually before you combine that way you have a base level for each and can see if you get any combination effects or whether the stack is not worth the extra cost.


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

I've tried ECA, used, to take it for fasted swimming but yeh it makes me anxious as fck


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

WilsonR6 said:


> I've tried ECA, used, to take it for fasted swimming but yeh it makes me anxious as fck


You may find that Clen does a similar thing.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

DiggyV said:


> Three different substances mate, working in three very different ways. All do their job, you'll lose weight on all of them. I'll go over what I consider to be the best way of running them below, and then my honest opinion on the best of them....
> 
> *T3* - TriIodoThyronine - the more potent of the thyroid hormones in the body. Your body doesn't produce much directly from the Thyroid gland, but the T4 it does produce is broken down into T3 at a cellular level. THe release of T4 and T3 is controlled by another two hormones called TRH (Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone) and TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone). In a nutshell low T3 in the body causes the Hypothalamus to release TRH, which then causes the Pituitary Gland to release TSH, which causes the Thyroid Gland to release T4 and a little T3.
> 
> ...


Where the hell did you find that cr4p? especially the T3 bollox.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

Mars said:


> Where the hell did you find that cr4p? especially the T3 bollox.


explain mate? The ECA through research and personal use , the Clen through personal use and with T3 again research and use.

Also hope you are on the mend.


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