# Maintaining weight but losing BF%? possible?



## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Hey folks.

Basically my missus has goals as we all do and is doing really well with a healthy diet.

She has lost 8lb and has got down to a weight she likes and has decided to just lose another 5lb and stick to that weight.

Only thing is as we all do she has a little excess fat around the belly which she wants to get rid of so she is really confident in bikini and crop tops etc when weather is nice so its all toned up 

Is it possible to maintain a good weight while losing BF%? What would be your advise to do this well?

Her current situation:

Gym 2-3 times per week - 60-90 mins weight & cardio sessions

Running 2-3 times per week - 20 mins run each session

Diet:

eggs or cereal for breakfast

apple or banana for snack first break (At work and only thing really available)

sandwhich at lunch (At work and only thing really available)

apple or banana for snack last break

Some form of meat with low fat chips, or rice, or veg for dinner.

Weekend luxury:

Small indian or meal out friday or saturday night

Sunday roast lunch sunday afternoon

Overall calories is quiet low (hence weight loss) and BF% has reduced over the last year from over 25% to around 19%. But just after more advise really


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Yea the higher protien intake makes sense pretty much like my diet... With her its a question of being at work and whats available. Its a inner city job with public transport so cant carry tubes about etc...

We could put enough powder in packets each time and take a shaker mind for the protien kick with the fruit.

Agree on the oils from fish... She has fish a couple times a week in evening and tuna which is good but that little extra would help. I need the same to be honest so good point.

Cutting out low fat chips is good idea... Pure convience we do that with some meals  So its worth a thought at a better form of potatoe.

Agreed on higher muscle mass compared to body fat for a slimmer look anyway  We got body calipers and scales to test for BF% each week as you say its a better indicator!

So..... fish oils, more protien, keep to good diet, keep exercise up.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Horrific diet i suggest upping protein decreasing carbs and upping good fats.

Heres what my gf eats...

meal 1: 2 whole eggs,2 egg whites

meal 2: 125grams chicken, brocoli

meal 3: can of tuna, celery

meal 4: either meal 2 or 3 again

On top of this she takes fish oil tablets usually 9 per day.

Her weight would be ten stone four pound and she does HEAVY weight training 4 times per week and cardio 4 times per week.

Once every 1 week she has one carb meal allowing 600cals from carbs.

This has her losing fat slowly yet adding muscle at the same time.

Bf % doesnt matter its all about the look shes going for, mine is going for a Jamie eason very lean with a low to medium amount of muscle mass.

I intend to have her fully up and running by summer of 09:lol:


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

As an example of how to do what i asked with increasing toning and losing BF% i love it  Thanks for the advise and perfect planner.

Love the idea behind it chap BUT my girlfriend is not a person which can eat for the sake of eating for nutrition. She has to enjoy her food and keep it veried or she gets bored really quickly. So a can of tuna for example and celery would never happen so gotta keep things realistic  and a bit more interesting

Also low to zero carbs is very hard for the original reason, with her work environment you eat what you can get. lol. + nights out with work and alchol involved. So its just about balancing that kinda thing out with some good meals and training.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

GSleigh said:


> As an example of how to do what i asked with increasing toning and losing BF% i love it  Thanks for the advise and perfect planner.
> 
> Love the idea behind it chap BUT my girlfriend is not a person which can eat for the sake of eating for nutrition. She has to enjoy her food and keep it veried or she gets bored really quickly. So a can of tuna for example and celery would never happen so gotta keep things realistic  and a bit more interesting
> 
> Also low to zero carbs is very hard for the original reason, with her work environment you eat what you can get. lol. + nights out with work and alchol involved. So its just about balancing that kinda thing out with some good meals and training.


I had a feeling you may say that overall mate sounds like shes doing very well as long as improvements are made you are on the right track:thumbup1:


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

GSleigh said:


> As an example of how to do what i asked with increasing toning and losing BF% i love it  Thanks for the advise and perfect planner.
> 
> Love the idea behind it chap BUT my girlfriend is not a person which can eat for the sake of eating for nutrition. She has to enjoy her food and keep it veried or she gets bored really quickly. So a can of tuna for example and celery would never happen so gotta keep things realistic  and a bit more interesting
> 
> Also low to zero carbs is very hard for the original reason, *with her work environment you eat what you can get.* lol. + nights out with work and alchol involved. So its just about balancing that kinda thing out with some good meals and training.


I am sorry, let's be realistic here, that is the most lame excuse I think I have heard in awhile.

There is this thing called cooking, and cool boxes with freezer packs.

As far as tuna and keeping it interesting goes, there are these things called recipes so you don't have to eat tuna out of a tin.

You put spices and flavourings into food so it is more interesting.

I am sure I posted one in the what is your fav tuna recipes, and there is a recipe section here.

If you think you can eat food on the go all the time and look great, you are kidding yourself.

Zero or low carbs is totally unnecessary, it is all about calories in and calories out, there is not magic macronutrient ratio.

I also can't believe you are using the word 'tone' on a bodybuilding board.

If your GF or you thinks she can get 'toned' without lifting weights, well again, not going to happen.

Most girls have to train like pro BBers or powerlifters or take steroids to put on any kind of muscle, Jamie Eason look included.

In physiology, medicine, and anatomy, muscle tone (aka residual muscle tension or tonus) is the continuous and passive partial contraction of the muscles. It helps maintain posture, and it declines during REM sleep.

Toning exercises are physical exercises that aim to develop musculature that is hard, as opposed to flaccid.

Performing such exercises can be referred to as toning.

In this respect, the term toned implies leanness in the body, low levels of body fat, and noticeable muscle definition and shape.

The concept of muscle building may refer to the expected effects of such exercises.

Many bodybuilders and experts argue that there is no such thing as a toning exercise.

What is referred to as toning actually consists of two effects: increased muscle size through hypertrophy and lower bodyfat percent.

Combined, these create the effect mistakenly called toning.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Con said:


> I had a feeling you may say that overall mate sounds like shes doing very well as long as improvements are made you are on the right track:thumbup1:


Thanks mate. Tell you what you aint half helpful on this board. Been reading alot of your comments around  Good man.

And if thats you in photo you look shape i aiming at! Maybe a little bigger though.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Tatyana said:


> I am sorry, let's be realistic here, that is the most lame excuse I think I have heard in awhile.
> 
> There is this thing called cooking, and cool boxes with freezer packs.
> 
> ...


Well blo**y hell. Theres how to post completely useless unhelpfull information. lol.

I dont know you but you could be a little less rude and sarcastic and a little more helpful 

And your explanations of toning are quiet funny. Yes we suprisingly know that after reading all the major guides on every muscle forum i can find and a year of muscle fitness magazines and mens healthy.   But you may have helped some one in a round a bout way.

Not to sure why you think she wants to "tone"  LOL or getting lean without lifting weights? She trains with me and she puts lads to shame in our gym and her weights have been jumping up no end and shes doing really well with that the last 6 months 

cooking it.. freezer boxes and cooler bag. How she would get that to work in first place i dont know and she would have no where to keep it with the office type she works in. They have no kitchen, no microwave and no facalities bar the cantine. That comment was quiet unhelpful. You can make the best of a worst situation by focusing on better foods over other foods 

If you aint going to be constructive with critism dont waste ya time posting thanks


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Tatyana said:


> I am sorry, let's be realistic here, that is the most lame excuse I think I have heard in awhile.
> 
> There is this thing called cooking, and cool boxes with freezer packs.
> 
> ...


Let it out girl  spot on


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

GSleigh said:


> Well blo**y hell. Theres how to post completely useless unhelpfull information. lol.
> 
> I dont know you but you could be a little less rude and sarcastic and a little more helpful
> 
> ...


with all due respect, Bollox mate, its very good

Best post I read in ages, I even got my rep finger out for it


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

GSleigh said:


> Well blo**y hell. Theres how to post completely useless unhelpfull information. lol.
> 
> I dont know you but you could be a little less rude and sarcastic and a little more helpful
> 
> ...


It depends on how quickly she wants results.

If you are really serious about your diet, there are things you can eat without having to microwave them.

I have about 5 coolers, some look a bit like handbags and I can fit all of my meals for the day into them.

To maintain a decent physique, you have to make lifestyle changes, and that does mean a lot more cooking your own food or start spending A LOT of money eating out.

The homemade tuna 'burgers' are great cold, pasta salads, homemade protein bars, you will find all these recipes on this site.

Other than that, really, it is tough to find decent food that doesn't have too much sugar or salt in it.

I am not surprised if she puts lads to shame in the gym, most of the lads I see in the gym train like pussies, and usually, the women are worse for machine hopping, doing one set on the pec dec with one plate then doing one other exercise and moving on.

So if she is training properly, my apologies.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Lost Soul said:


> with all due respect, Bollox mate, its very good
> 
> Best post I read in ages, I even got my rep finger out for it


each to there own then chap  But if you learn nothing from a post then its not helpful 

Also you are kinda same with how brutal you put information across in posts. BUT... yours i find are very helpful and i have acted on information you have provided


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Tatyana said:


> It depends on how quickly she wants results.
> 
> If you are really serious about your diet, there are things you can eat without having to microwave them.
> 
> ...


Ah there we go   Thank you for the post that one was cool...

Got any preferences where to get those kinda little bags from to take home made stuff cause i got massive hamper in my head.

Also yea in gym its 3 full sets. reps between 6-12 depending and lifting heavy with fails and all sorts. She doing a cracking job  I think having powerlifters around her is good motivation 

Ah yea i heard avoid excess sugars and salts in crutial thats another point to note down

I do understand there are life style changes however, we are slowly but surely making em.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Tatyana said:


> Most girls have to train like pro BBers or powerlifters or take steroids to put on any kind of muscle, Jamie Eason look included.


Very true this is why my gf will out train 99% of all guys, she literally trains until she cries or throws up:lol:

Its all well and good talking about bringing containers to work but he never said she wanted to look like a pro female bb or even get the same look that you have all she wants to do is add a bit of muscle and lose a bit of fat which will be easy to do with out carrying all that stuff around.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

GSleigh said:


> each to there own then chap  But if you learn nothing from a post then its not helpful
> 
> Also you are kinda same with how brutal you put information across in posts. BUT... yours i find are very helpful and i have acted on information you have provided


There is some good info in the post though on prepping food, packing it, dodging situations etc


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Aye true.

And yea with regards to shape we are looking to achieve this:

Natalie (girl on fair left) kind of shape:



















White Bikini girl here










Just tight and smooth so works well in night out outfits and bikinis


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, the most effective fat loss hands down is resistance training, and that being done with some intensity. Basic compound movements for your girl can help her to lose bodyfat and actually not even lose any weight as she will gain muscle.

This new muscle will have an added requirement for fuel, this fuel if not added will result in some fat/weight loss.

I bring all my food into work, every day and hardly ever do I use the cold packs although I should put them in there, but I just dont.

As said above by more than one member, she should up the protein, add good fats and watch her carbs. the carbs should if she is dieting be lower in the glycemic index. The GI is not perfect but it is a good thing to use to help one avoid the spiking of blood sugars which in return spike insulin, which in turn can take that meal and store it.

Avoiding sugars and processed foods is a great way to help here.

I bring my food in bags and tupperware, today was veggie burger patties (2), some chicken, green beans, an apple, and some raw almonds. As you can see it is basily finger food and mostly in bags and I toss them when I am done and it is very easy to just snack on.

As for something like that tuna, you can put avacado in it with some green bell pepper and have a apple with it, you got all your macro's covered in good healthy foods.

You can add fish oils to her meals to allow her to get some good fats in her diet.

Fish oils are awesome and my number one fav supplement of anything.


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## carly (Mar 8, 2008)

hard to tell by them photos huni but i wouldnt say they do alot, maybe press ups, pull ups all using her own body weight, stepper is fab for toning the glutes and so is hill walking sweeti, on regards to food, little and often with a mix of protein, carbs and good fats, even if shes on the move she can carry around some nuts in her bag, even a shake for emergencies. also boxing is fantastic for toning arms and mid section and fun! :thumb:


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

That first photo was really to show off the stomach that woman has got which is spot on.

With regards to the info above thats been fantastic.... Main points i see are:

1. up the protein

2. add good fats

3. Keep tabs on carbs

4. Carbs used lower glycemic index.

5. insulin spike can can take that meal and store it so keep lower GI.

6. Avoiding sugars and processed foods is a great way to help here

7. Stepper and hill walking to tone up the bum and upper legs

8. Food = little and often with mix of protien, good fats and carbs

9. Take a lunchbox or bag to work with healthy foods, fruits, protiens

10. Dont miss snacks and breakfasts as constantly eating small amounts helps.

 good points


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

GSleigh said:


> That first photo was really to show off the stomach that woman has got which is spot on.
> 
> With regards to the info above thats been fantastic.... Main points i see are:
> 
> ...


Absolutly, and never skip breakfast.

Some people have good results in skipping carbs for the last meal or couple of meals.

I find when I only eat a protein and fat for dinner I not only eat less but tend to lose easier.

Just a suggestion she could try.

But yah, you are on the right track.

As for the boxing, that give my brother the best abs he ever had when he was boxing.


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

Yea i have started to try to lower carbs after 6pm in the evening to little to nothing after having a good number of meals threw the day  So i will see if we can get her along the same lines! Meat + little veg for meals etc...

Protien and fat so the body eats the fat like the carb cycling guides say i guessing there.

And boxing... o.k good stuff  will look into that at our local gym.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, consider carbs as a source of fuel.

When you go on a trip somewhere you have to fill the tank up. Think of using more of the carbs during the morning topping off your car/body.

At the end of the day fuel is not really being needed for a long trip.

By lowering the carbs and eating fats and protein I notice less binge eating and I feel I can eat less food.

Fats are a slow fuel, over the course of the night fast acting carbs are not even being used, during sleep it is fats, so nice slow burning long acting fuel is just fine for this meal.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

GSleigh said:


> Ah there we go   Thank you for the post that one was cool...
> 
> Got any preferences where to get those kinda little bags from to take home made stuff cause i got massive hamper in my head.
> 
> ...


All of the best cooler bags I have I got at TKMaxx to be honest.

My fav is my pink one, but I think even Marks and Sparks do really cute small bags.

If you are going to be eating out, then I would recommend you get her a copy of a Weight Watcher's points book or a Slimming World one, at least then it will be easy to track calories, as they are more geared up to that 'eat the food you like and still lose weight'.

As far as the look goes, how about she just trains and has the best body that she can have?

She can only ever look like herself, I know pics can be motivating in some ways, but they can also be a bit damaging as well. She may not have the same waist to hip ratio, the same muscle insertions, etc.


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

dont use FHM/nuts pictures for her to judge herself by most of these girls are morphed heres a good example...

http://bp2.blogger.com/_EHZsoUS6SIA/R82ThVSSjpI/AAAAAAAAAAw/NzX1QsuJzgE/s1600-h/maxim.jpg

there was a brillant one that i cant find where they photoshoped the model but not the shaddow so you saw the shadow had lovehandles and a chunky butt but the model was a rake...

here it is


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

wogihao said:


> dont use FHM/nuts pictures for her to judge herself by most of these girls are morphed heres a good example...
> 
> http://bp2.blogger.com/_EHZsoUS6SIA/R82ThVSSjpI/AAAAAAAAAAw/NzX1QsuJzgE/s1600-h/maxim.jpg
> 
> ...


Oh yea  We know these folk are serious air brushed to high hell  My missus has had some photos done at a study and they showed us how quickly they can air brush and alter photos. The speed he did it was unbelieveable 

The photos above are guidelines and i dont believe they are that spot on them selves


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## carly (Mar 8, 2008)

the abs diet yes sounds very cornie but it is a fab book to get her started it has a bullseyes style chart in there for foods and has all different alternatives when going out for a meal, I used it for years it awesome!!! www.*abs**diet*.com

has all you need sweeti pie!! xx:thumb:


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

Ok you post this



GSleigh said:


> As an example of how to do what i asked with increasing toning and losing BF% i love it  Thanks for the advise and perfect planner.
> 
> Love the idea behind it chap BUT my girlfriend is not a person which can eat for the sake of eating for nutrition. She has to enjoy her food and keep it veried or she gets bored really quickly. So a can of tuna for example and celery would never happen so gotta keep things realistic  and a bit more interesting
> 
> Also low to zero carbs is very hard for the original reason, with her work environment you eat what you can get. lol. + nights out with work and alchol involved. So its just about balancing that kinda thing out with some good meals and training.


Then you post this



GSleigh said:


> That first photo was really to show off the stomach that woman has got which is spot on.
> 
> With regards to the info above thats been fantastic.... Main points i see are:
> 
> ...


the latter is very promising but realisticsally this is like asking a porn star to become a nun overnight

big picture mate, long term, small changes


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

Greekgoddess said:


> I also find that good fats with a protein meal stops me craving carbs when I am trying to cut them.


EXACTLY!

If a person consumes enough fats one is never truly hungry and you dont have fluctuations during the day as you would on a low carb diet. :thumbup1:

Get rid of the carbs and up the fats i cant talk for men on this but every single woman who i have made go on a ketogenic diet has done very well (one got 3rd at her nationals and one got second in a natural american bb fed in the opens at 50 years of age and the third is losing fat and gaining muscle dramaticly).


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Men usually fair better on a keto diet than woman for some strange reason.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Con said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> If a person consumes enough fats one is never truly hungry and you dont have fluctuations during the day as you would on a low carb diet. :thumbup1:
> 
> Get rid of the carbs and up the fats i cant talk for men on this but every single woman who i have made go on a ketogenic diet has done very well (one got 3rd at her nationals and one got second in a natural american bb fed in the opens at 50 years of age and the third is losing fat and gaining muscle dramaticly).


It is not that straight forward, google metabolic profiling.

People are very different biochemically, some will do well on low or no carbs others won't.

Some people can eat shed loads of carbs and get shredded.

There is no 'cookie cutter' solution, you have to experiment on yourself, keep records and see what works best.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

Tatyana said:


> It is not that straight forward, google metabolic profiling.
> 
> People are very different biochemically, some will do well on low or no carbs others won't.
> 
> ...


Please do not reply to any more of my posts i find you beyond irritating.

This is a board of opinions no one has the 100% correct one people must learn to pick and choose the info that they use from what people say, i never said i was right but for my expierences.

You have your opinions i have mine, end of story.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Con said:


> Please do not reply to any more of my posts i find you beyond irritating.
> 
> This is a board of opinions no one has the 100% correct one people must learn to pick and choose the info that they use from what people say, i never said i was right but for my expierences.
> 
> You have your opinions i have mine, end of story.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

It wasn't a correction BTW, just that some do better on low carbs and some don't.

It is all about the science, not opinions.

I have studies to back up most of what I say.

And yes, there is a difference in the application blah, blah, blah, but physiology and biochemistry are still physiology and biochemistry.

Biochemical Individuality: The Key to Understanding What Shapes Your Health

Roger J. Williams, PhD.. Introduction to he 1988 edition by Jeffrey Bland PhD

What are the characteristics of a "classic book"? Is it the timelessness of the message? The insight which spurred the development of a field? The contribution to a new way of thinking that significantly improved the state of society? Or the ability to see the "obvious" in a way that had never been seen before and so well communicated?

The book Biochemical Individiuality, authored by the late world-renowned biochemist Roger Williams, Ph.D., first published in 1956, fulfills all of these characteristics. It is a book that should be on the bookshelf of all students and practitioners of modern molecular medicine. It is with great admiration and respect that I have the privilege of writing the introduction to the republication of this timeless work.

Molecular medicine was a term used by two-time Nobel laureate in chemistry and peace Linus Pauling, Ph.D., in his landmark article on the mechanism of production of sickle cell anemia published in 1949. [1] It defined a new perspective on the origin of disease based upon the recognition that specific mutations of the genes can create an altered "molecular environment" and therefore the modified physiological function associated with specific diseases.

Dr. Williams contributed to the evolution of the understanding of the molecular origin of disease with the development of the concept of biochemical individuality. He described anatomical and physiological variations among people and how they related to their individual responses to the environment. He was the first to gain recognition for the term "biochemical individuality" and how this related to differing nutritional needs for optimal function among different people. He pointed out that even identical twins could be different in their needs for optimal function based upon the fact that they developed in different environments in utero. Although identical twins share the same genes, their differing nutrition and developmental environments can result in different expression of the genes as they grow older.

In the 1980s the field of biochemical individuality became fashionable within science as a consequence of the progress made in understanding the molecular biology of the gene. The Human Genome project represented a major international commitment of scientists to understand the genetic code of life by sequencing the human chromosomes. As this story has unfolded from laboratories around the world, its implications have been revolutionary in terms of how medicine views genes and their function. The genetic structure is no longer seen as "rigid" as previously considered. Rather, as Bishop and Waldholz pointed out in their book Genome, "aberrant genes do not, in and of themselves, cause disease. By and large their impact on an individual's health is minimal until the person is plunged into a harmful environment. . . . The list of common diseases which has its roots in this genetic soil is growing almost daily. . . . How many human ills will be added to the list is unknown, although some contend that almost every disorder compromising a full and healthy four score and ten years of life can be traced in one way or another to this genetic variability" (Simon and Schuster, New York, 1990).

The first major breakthrough that resulted in this revolutionary change in thinking about the origin of disease was the recognition that we are much more different biochemically than was previously acknowledged.[2] Dr. Williams in Biochemical Individuality pioneered this revolution in thinking forty years ago. Genetic polymorphism is the term which has emerged in the past decade to describe this variation in function surrounding a specific genetic trait.

The second major breakthrough in thinking made by Dr. Williams is the recognition that nutritional status can influence the expression of genetic characteristics.[3] Once again Dr. Williams foresaw this important concept in Biochemical Individuality and set in motion research and discoveries over the past four decades that have transformed medicine. It is now well recognized that our genotype gets transformed into our phenotype as a consequence of nutritional, lifestyle and environmental factors which are important in determining our health patterns.

In 1976 Dr. Williams and his colleague Donald R. Davis, Ph.D., co-authored a paper entitled "Potentially useful criteria for judging nutritional adequacy" in which they provided observations about how nutritional status can influence the functional expression of the genes. They pointed out that phenotypic characteristics such as voluntary consumption of food, sleeping time after anesthesia, weight gains after surgery, heating time after surgery, hair growth after clipping, voluntary sugar consumption and recovery time after poisoning could all be influenced by nutritional influence on gene expression.[4]

The concept of biochemical individuality has become part of most contemporary clinical and experimental medical and nutritional research. People are now known to fit into personally unique biochemical profiles based upon their own genetic structure, nutrition and environment.[5] There is no such thing as a truly "normal" individual-meaning average. We are all biochemically unique and need to be dealt with as such. The Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) which were developed by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Research Council to establish the nutritional needs of "practically all healthy people" were not based upon the more recent information concerning the range of biochemical individuality among individuals. The RDAs that describe "normal" nutritional needs have questionable relevancy to the concept of optimal nutrition based upon individual needs. The contributions of Dr. Williams have opened the door for personally tailored nutritional and medical interventions that take biochemical individuality into account.

Some of the world's foremost nutrition and medical researchers are now actively involved in developing a better understanding of the field which Dr. Williams pioneered. Rucker and Tinker from the University of California at Davis, Department of Nutrition, have described the role of nutrition in gene expression and its relationship to biochemical individuality as "a fertile field for the application of molecular biology."[6] It is now well known that significant biochemical diversity occurs in such physiological functions as the ability the individual to detoxify both exogenous and endogenous s stances, the control of blood cholesterol, the metabolism of the potentially harmful amino acid homocysteine, and the response certain cancer genes to the diet and environment. These are all examples of how nutritional status can influence disease patterns based upon biochemical individuality.

Dr. Williams coined the term "genetotrophic disease" to describe diseases which resulted from genetically determined nutritional metabolic needs not being met by the individual and which result in poor gene expression. Motulsky has recently argued that many the common degenerative diseases are the result of the imbalance nutritional intake with genetically determined needs for good health.[7]

The genetic concept with which most nutrition and medical searchers grew up intellectually before the contribution of Dr. Williams was that of Gregor Mendel. His concept of dominant recessive genetic characteristics gave us the belief that our characteristics are "locked in stone" when the sperm meets the egg. Dr. Williams opened the eyes of the research communities that expression of genes and therefore phenotypic function was modifiable through altered diet and nutritional status. He pointed out human biochemical variation in function was much greater than nutrition and medicine recognized prior to his publications.[8] Simopoulos has stated that "of all the recent scientific advances contributing to our understanding of the role of nutrition in disease prevention and the variability in human nutrient needs, the recognition of genetic variation as a contributing factor must rank am the highest."[9]

Dr. Williams made this complicated story easy to understand and compelling to health scientists and the general public alike. His clarity of thought and language helped open up this field which been dominated by Mendelian thinking for nearly one hundred years before the publication of Biochemical Individuality. In one of lectures at which I was in attendance he responded to an inquiry as to why the RDAs were not sufficient to define a person's nutritional needs with the simple insight, "Nutrition is for real people. Statistical humans are of little interest."

It is very timely that Biochemical Individuality is being reprinted over forty years after its initial publication, and that it is even more timely today than at the time of its original publication. By all definitions, Biochemical Individuality fulfills the definition of "a classic" and should have an honored place among the principal reference books of anyone interested in health and nutrition.

Jeffrey S. Bland, Ph.D

HealthComm International, Inc

Gig Harbor, WA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References

1. Pauling L, Itano HA. Sickle cell anemia: a molecular disease. Science 1949; 110:543-548:

2. Motulsky AG. The 1985 Nobel Prize in physiology and medicine. Science 1986; 231:126-127.

3. Holtzman NA. Genetic variation in nutritional requirements and susceptibility to disease: policy implications. Am J Clin Nutrition 1988 48:1510-1516.

4. Davis DR, Williams RJ. Potentially useful criteria for judging nutritional adequacy. Am J Clin Nutrition 1976; 29:710-715.

5. Robertson EA, Young DS. Biochemical individuality and the recognition of personal profiles with a computer. Clin Chemistry 1980; 26:30-36.

6. Rucker R, Tinker D. The role of nutrition in gene expression: A fertile field for the application of molecular biology. J Nutr 1986; 116:177-189

7. Motulsky A. Nutrition and genetic susceptibility to common diseases. Am J Clin Nutrition 1992; 55:1244S-1245S.

8. Motulsky A. Human genetic variation and nutrition. Am J Clin Nutrition 1987; 45:1108-1113.

9. Simopoulos AP. Genetic variation and nutrition. Nutrition Today 1995 30: 157-167.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

*In this study, there were some that didn't lose any weight at all on low carbs, and some that didn't do well on the low fat. *

*http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/348/21/2082*

*A Randomized Trial of a Low-Carbohydrate Diet for Obesity*
​
Gary D. Foster, Ph.D., Holly R. Wyatt, M.D., James O. Hill, Ph.D., Brian G. McGuckin, Ed.M., Carrie Brill, B.S., B. Selma Mohammed, M.D., Ph.D., Philippe O. Szapary, M.D., Daniel J. Rader, M.D., Joel S. Edman, D.Sc., and Samuel Klein, M.D.​

 https://secure.nejm.org/campaigns/Register/REGONJEJ0607/REGONJEJ0607.aspx?promo=ONFLNR28&cpc=REGONJEJ0607]







  
[/TABLE]*ABSTRACT*

Background Despite the popularity of the low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat (Atkins) diet, no randomized, controlled trials have evaluated its efficacy.

Methods We conducted a one-year, multicenter, controlled trial involving 63 obese men and women who were randomly assigned to either a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet or a low-calorie, high-carbohydrate, low-fat (conventional) diet. Professional contact was minimal to replicate the approach used by most dieters.

Results Subjects on the low-carbohydrate diet had lost more weight than subjects on the conventional diet at 3 months (mean [±SD], -6.8±5.0 vs. -2.7±3.7 percent of body weight; P=0.001) and 6 months (-7.0±6.5 vs. -3.2±5.6 percent of body weight, P=0.02), but the difference at 12 months was not significant (-4.4±6.7 vs. -2.5±6.3 percent of body weight, P=0.26). After three months, no significant differences were found between the groups in total or low-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations. The increase in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations and the decrease in triglyceride concentrations were greater among subjects on the low-carbohydrate diet than among those on the conventional diet throughout most of the study. Both diets significantly decreased diastolic blood pressure and the insulin response to an oral glucose load.

Conclusions The low-carbohydrate diet produced a greater weight loss (absolute difference, approximately 4 percent) *than did the conventional diet for the first six months, but the differences were not significant at one year.* The low-carbohydrate diet was associated with a greater improvement in some risk factors for coronary heart disease. Adherence was poor and attrition was high in both groups. Longer and larger studies are required to determine the long-term safety and efficacy of low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diets.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

I don't mean to offend, but stuff like this is my light reading during my tea breaks.

This is the trippy thing, not all drugs work on people, seriously, some people don't even respond to aspirin, some are hyper-metabolisers of codeine, ACE-inhibitors, anti-depressants, steroids.

People have very different requirements for vitamins and minerals as well, it can be ten-fold difference.

It is really quite fascinating.

So while I think it is useful for people to experiment with their diets, getting stuck into any one school of thought, especially now the emerging 'carbs are bad' one, could result in as many problems as we have seen with 'fat is bad'.

A really high percentage of proteins in the body exists as glycoproteins, meaning they are complexed with a carbohydrate, and this is essential for things like proper immune system functioning.

I can see that there will be 'essential carbohydrates' or glyconutrients within 10 years.

Expert Review of Molecular Diagnostics

May 2007, Vol. 7, No. 3, Pages 247-259

(doi:10.1586/14737159.7.3.247)



Global metabolic profiling and its role in systems biology to advance personalized medicine in the 21st Century

Laura K Schnackenberg

Systems biology attempts to elucidate the complex interaction between genes, proteins and metabolites to provide a mechanistic understanding of cellular function and how this function is affected by disease processes, drug toxicity or drug efficacy effects. Global metabolic profiling is an important component of systems biology that can be applied in both preclinical and clinical settings for drug discovery and development, and to study disease mechanisms. The metabolic profile encodes the phenotype, which is composed of the genotype and environmental factors. The phenotypic profile can be used to make decisions about the best course of treatment for an individual patient. Understanding the combined effects of genetics and environment through a systems biology framework will enable the advancement of personalized medicine.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

It is a really new and fascinating area of science.



*Nutrient-Gene Interaction: Tracer-Based Metabolomics**1-3*
​
*
*



Wai-Nang P. Lee and Vay Liang W. Go*4
​


LABiomed Research Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, and *David Geffen School of Medicine at

UCLA, University of California, Los Angeles, CA
​


ABSTRACT Understanding nutrient-gene interaction requires tools for both the study of nutrigenomics and the

characterization of phenotype. Metabolomics or metabolite profiling is a powerful tool for characterizing metabolic

phenotype, and tracer-based metabolomics is a subset of metabolomics that focuses on metabolite distribution

and flux determination using tracers. In this review, the characterizations of metabolic phenotype by metabolite

profiling and by metabolic flux measurements are compared. The rationale and methodologies of tracer-based

metabolomics are explained. Tracer-based metabolomics provides a relational database of metabolites linked by

the relationship of shared metabolic pathways, common substrates, and cofactors. Such a collection of flux

measurements provides precise and accurate information on the operation of the cellular metabolic network and

its response to genetic and nutrient environment changes. Nutrient-gene interaction can be studied using the

concept of constraint-based modeling, which states that the observed metabolic phenotype is a consequence of

constraints from genetic factors and the nutrient environment. Thus, genetic inheritance (genomic constraints)

confers a wide range of possible phenotypes whereas selection by metabolic (structural and pathway relationship)

and environmental (physical environment and nutrient availability) constraints determines the final observed

phenotype. The study of the contribution from nutrient and genetic factors to the survival advantage of cancer cells

using flux measurements is a critical first step in our understanding of the relationship between nutrient intake and

cancer risk. J. Nutr. 135: 3027S-3032S, 2005.

KEY WORDS: ● glucose intermediary metabolism ● ribose synthesis ● isotopomer analysis
​


● constraint-based modeling
​


The current understanding of the malignant transformation

of cells heavily emphasizes genetic regulation of the cell cycle,

proliferation, apoptosis, angiogenesis, and metastasis. Uncontrolled

proliferation and metastasis of cancer cells has been

shown to be associated with the loss of regulation due to the

presence of cancer promoters or the absence of tumor suppressor

genes (1). However, this deterministic paradigm of the

etiology of cancer is not sufficient to explain the great variation

in the expression of human genes in response to mutation

and environmental changes, nutrition, lifestyle, and age resulting

in the variability of the phenotypes of cancer. Consequently,

the relationship between nutrient intake and cancer

risk is poorly understood.

To fully understand the links between nutrition

Full text follows:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/135/12/3027S.pdf
​


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Metabolic fingerprinting

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_21-4-2008-11-57-56?newsid=34334

Sunday 20 April 2008

*Your metabolic 'fingerprint' can reveal much about the possible causes of major diseases, according to the first 'metabolome-wide' association study ever carried out, published today in the journal Nature.*

The study provides new insights into the possible causes of high blood pressure, a leading cause of heart disease and stroke, by analysing the metabolic fingerprints of 4,630 adults in the UK, USA, China and Japan, from their urine samples.

Metabolic fingerprinting looks at the relative levels of many different metabolites, which are the products of metabolism, in a person's blood or urine. Metabolites act as markers which can reveal a lot about how diet and lifestyle contribute to risks for certain diseases.

The research shows that adults in the UK and USA, which have similar incidences of high blood pressure and cardiovascular problems, have similar metabolic fingerprints, reflecting similar lifestyles in spite of their geographical distance from one another.

In contrast, although adults in Japan and China have similar genetic profiles, they have very different metabolic fingerprints from one another and from adults in the UK and USA, and also have major differences in the incidence of many diseases.

Japanese people living in the USA have metabolic fingerprints that resemble other people in the USA, and dissimilar fingerprints to their counterparts living in Japan. This shows that lifestyle is a dominant feature in determining metabolism.

Professor Jeremy Nicholson, one of the authors of the research from the Department of Biomolecular Medicine at Imperial College London, said: "Our research illustrates how metabolome-wide association studies can give us important clues as to the causes of major health problems such as high blood pressure. Metabolic profiling can tell us how specific aspects of a person's diet can contribute to their risks for certain diseases, and these are things which we can't investigate by looking at a person's DNA. What is really important is that we can test out our new hypotheses directly, in a way that is not easy with genetic biomarkers."

Professor Paul Elliott, a co-author of the research from the Department of Epidemiology and Public Health at Imperial College, added: "The flip-side of this is that whereas a person can't alter their DNA, they can change their metabolic profile by changing their diet and lifestyle. This means that as we figure out where the problems lie, we should also be able to show people ways to reduce their risk of certain diseases."

The new study reveals that people with increased levels of the amino acid alanine, which is found in many foods but which is particularly high in animal protein, have higher blood pressure and also increased energy intake, levels of dietary cholesterol, and body mass index.

People with increased levels of the metabolite formate have lower blood pressure and increased energy intake. Formate arises from the action of microbes in the gut or as a product of metabolism in the body.

Increased levels of hippurate, a by-product of metabolism by microbes in the gut, are found in people with lower blood pressure, lower levels of alcohol intake, and higher levels of dietary fibre.

For the study, researchers took urine samples from volunteers aged between 40 and 59 and analysed these for over several thousand metabolite signals, using NMR spectroscopy and advanced statistics. The volunteers were participating in the INTERMAP study, an epidemiological study investigating the links between diet and blood pressure.

The study was carried out by researchers from Imperial College London, UK; Northwestern University, Chicago, USA; Akademisch Ziekenhuis St Rafael, Belgium; Shiga University of Medical Science, Japan; and the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, China. It was funded by the US National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute and local funders in the participating countries.

-ends-

*For further information please contact:*

Laura Gallagher

Senior Press Officer

Imperial College London

e-mail: [email protected]

Telephone: +44 (0)207 594 6702 or ext. 46702

Out of hours duty Press Officer: +44 (0)7803 886 248

*Notes to editors:*

1. "Human metabolic phenotype diversity and its association with diet and blood pressure" Nature, 20 April 2008

Corresponding authors: Jeremy Nicholson and Paul Elliott, Imperial College London (for full list of authors please see paper)

2. About high blood pressure (source: Blood Pressure Association, UK)

* 16 million people in the UK have high blood pressure

* High blood pressure is the major cause of stroke, dementia, heart attacks and heart failure and it is responsible for more than half of these. These are the major causes of death and disability in the UK.

3. About metabolism (source: Oxford Concise Medical Dictionary, fifth edition)

* Metabolism is the sum of all the chemical and physical changes that take place within the body and enable its continued growth and functioning.

* Metabolism involves the breakdown of the complex organic constituents of the body with the liberation of energy, which is required for other processes and the building up of complex substances, which form the material of the tissues and organs, from simple ones.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

Anyone here had metabolic profiling done? I have it was interesting ....


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## GSleigh (Jan 22, 2008)

my eyes just went funny scrolling down the screen


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

maccer said:


> Anyone here had metabolic profiling done? I have it was interesting ....


I just assumed it was somthing they did on MT to snafful 99 quid out of people that didnt know better??


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

wogihao said:


> I just assumed it was somthing they did on MT to snafful 99 quid out of people that didnt know better??


Metabolic profiling means having your genome or the protiens you are producing checked really.

There is nothing to this level readily available to people.l

I am not positive that any of the on-line sites that have quizzes etc are all that useful, however, I have seen books related to what you are speaking about.

The premise behind it is valid though, referring to the variable nature of nutrient requirements for people.

You have to experiment on yourself to determine what you optimum requirements are.


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

Tatyana said:


> Metabolic profiling means having your genome or the protiens you are producing checked really.
> 
> There is nothing to this level readily available to people.l
> 
> ...


Yes Tat, that what i ment all I have seen is a kinda of questionare I dont think anyone does a genetic profile test.


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

wogihao said:


> Yes Tat, that what i ment all I have seen is a kinda of questionare I dont think anyone does a genetic profile test.


I did a questionaire (at no charge), and it just confirmed what I had known to be true about what works with me, but I have been working on the whole healthy diet thing for a long time, much longer than I have been BBing.

Here are a few interesting links, I do think this whole area of personalised nutrition (and also the related area of pharmacology) is how medicine is gong to go.

It is just bonkers that nutrition is not one of the first things that is considered when people present with some form of chronic or malignant disease.

http://www.ifr.ac.uk/science/programme/H2/

http://www.bjcardio.co.uk/pdf/2047/Vol12_Num1_January-February_2005_p5-7.pdf


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Men usually fair better on a keto diet than woman for some strange reason.


Women can tolerate far lower calorie intake (in relation to TDEE) before they start

1 losing muscle

2 slowing the metabolism down

(all things being equal)


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## Tatyana (Jan 29, 2006)

Lost Soul said:


> Women can tolerate far lower calorie intake (in relation to TDEE) before they start
> 
> 1 losing muscle
> 
> ...


I would think it is related to the higher body fat percentage (although these days, everyone is fat fc-ukers)

:whistling:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Lost Soul said:


> Women can tolerate far lower calorie intake (in relation to TDEE) before they start
> 
> 1 losing muscle
> 
> ...


OK, but men have more muscle than women, generally lower bodyfat than women and I was talking about a keto diet and not really far lower calorie intake.

I react very well on a keto diet for about 6 weeks, then it goes flat, then I slowly add in carbs and I start losing again.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

wogihao said:


> I just assumed it was somthing they did on MT to snafful 99 quid out of people that didnt know better??


I had this one done

http://www.trainsmart.com


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

i'll try making this brief but...you i dont have to tell you about cutting fatty foods down and increasing healthy options...as in food...sounds like it is quite a good diet...as for the food situation...there is good info on here,but i guess your girlfriend may have to push even harder on the dieting and i know it is difficult,but making the sacrifices will get you there in the end!!!

but a lot of the question should be on not only diet and training,but also on genetics and lifestyle!!!

her cardio sounds very good...i mean...i learnt at uni that beta-oxidation takes around 20-30 mins to come into effect for fat burning!!!

maybe as she goes along,intensity can be increased and length of time on cardio!!!!

also with women...weight training,bodybuilding...to form a more musculature fat free physique(i dont agree with this media term toned,no such word in sports science,sorry to sound arrogant)...will take much longer than a man...simply because womens pre-dominant hormone is eostrogen as oppose to mens testosterone!!

i dont want to sound bias but i do agree with what tatyana is trying to say,but i think along with genetics,is experimenting more...with diet and exercise,until...fat loss and free free mass is more achievable!!!

there are so many solutions to changing diet and making those physique changing enhancements...once again,tatyana has provided some good solutions...again,taking in pre-cooked foods that can be eaten cold is the way forward in this situation i guess unless at lunch break finding a subway is good too...i know there are not many healthy options out there and being with work colleagues or range of food shops or foods available in canteens are a bit poor!!!

basically if its the stomach area...then up the abdomianl crunches,sit-ups,sides,lower leg lifts....increase the cardio...cut out all the unhealthy high fat foods....dont eat after 8pm-9pm...and try cut the snacking out....good rest/sleep...promotes natural growth hormone levels in REM sleep....and i guess that thats pretty much it...just having the discipline to stick with it!!!!

hey tuna can be substitued for what i think is the best oily fish you can get....mackerel...amongst others...upping protein intake and lowering carbs and simple carbohydrates is always a good idea in favour of more complex carbohydrate foods....lean protein sources....as you probably knnow are skinless chicken breast,lean sirloin or fillet steak beef,turkey breast,oily fish such as mackerel,salmon,trout,pilchards,sardines etc

if you can get the food right,then supplements can be of minimum....water intake and good fats,also plenty of fruits,veg including salads are of paramount importance...its not all carbs n protein when training!!!!

also...what i was saying earlier about female hormone eostrogen...making it more difficult for women to put on musclemass,this is so true,i believe tatyana said this previously....so do get your girlfriend to try more progressively heavier weights...this will increase fat free mass(which in turn increase fat burning for fuel) but she will not turn into the hulk because the hormonal difference it takes 5 times as long for a female to obtain what a man can!!!!!

i dont know what else to say cos i'm a bit drained...

i should have more knowledge at hand,but it evades me at present!!!

hope something here has helped!!!!


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## Ironangel (Jul 14, 2008)

Can only speak from my personal experiance but... High protein/mod fat/Low carb diet works wonders for my tummy pouch :lol:


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

Carb cycling worked the best for me, and shed loads of cardio


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

GSleigh said:


> Aye true.
> 
> And yea with regards to shape we are looking to achieve this:
> 
> ...


Justa note Im 95% certain those girls in the pics dont look like that in real life, You'll be amazed what you can do to a picture in photoshop  )


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