# Pro-hormones 1st Cycle



## swashy (Oct 3, 2017)

Hi All

Im looking to purchase my first cycle of either a pro-hormone or sarm

Have spoken with 2 of the popular sites and have been recommended

Mass GH with Essential cycle and Super PCT

or

Espistane with venom (apocalypse) and arimisatane for PCT

Ive had a previous gyno operation 7 years ago after being an idiot so now im starting again i want to be extra careful and make sure i have everything right

Whats your thoughts on the above and which is best way to go

Also, on OCT and PCT - am i best getting Nolva rather than an Over the counter PCT. anything else you recommend aswell that will be needed

Im thinking of just a 4 week cycle to start with to see how i react first of all

Look forward to hearing your thought !!!


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

You say you've had gyno surgery, did they fully remove the gland?

Sarms will cause minimal shutdown but if you want to do a PCT go for nolva 20/20/10/10

For reference:

http://www.jwsupplements.co.uk/

Selective androgen receptor modulators or SARMs are a novel class of androgen receptor ligands. They are intended to have the same kind of effects as androgenic drugs like anabolic steroids but be much more selective in their action and considered to possess less unwanted side effects.

As with most performance or physique enhancing products some suit better for some goals than others.

So this is a very brief guide/identification process to help assist you in your research, and only based on opinion and feedback as opposed to any actual scientific studies.

Ostarine / MK-2866

This was along with Andarine the first SARM to become publicly known and of interest to bodybuilding.

Osta is probably best used during cutting phases as its strongest characteristic is the preservation of muscle tissue so an attribute particularly suited to a calorie deficit scenario.

For this reason it can be a great choice to stack with a more directly cutting orientated option such as S4 Andarine or GW-510516.

S4 Andarine

This along with GW is probably the most popular cutting choice. Like with Ostarine it was developed as a treatment to prevent muscle waste.If being compared to a traditional anabolic it might resemble Winstrol.

LGD-4033

LGD has shown the most ability of any SARM to put on size that could be considered a bulk. This will, of course, be dependent upon the diet used.

LGD-4033 is expected to produce the therapeutic benefits of testosterone with improved safety, tolerability.

MK-677 / Ibutamoren

Ibutamoren is a non-peptidic, potent, long-acting, orally-active, and selective agonist of the ghrelin receptor and a growth hormone secretagogue, mimicking the growth hormone-stimulating action of the endogenous hormone ghrelin.

This in turn makes it very flexible and able to serve purposes for both gaining and losing goals and always a good stacking option.

GW-510516 / Cardarine

This is commonly regarded as the fat burning SARM and therefore needless to say it is most popular on cutting cycles though there is a possibility it can sit nicely on a bulking cycle too in an effort to restrict fat gain and keep gains leaner.

SR-9009 / Stenabolic

This SARM is very good at boosting metabolic activity making it suitable for cutting, but also as it is reported to offer endurance benefits too can be considered versatile in use depending on ones goals and diet plan.

RAD-140

This SARM is potentially a medical alternative to testosterone therapy in males as it reacts on hormone receptors much in the same way as testosterone and without the documented side effects associated with large dosing of testosterone.Therefore, it would generally be considered as a better fit for bulking cycles and stack well with the likes of LGD-4033.

YK-11

This SARM is known to attach to the androgen receptor and is perhaps best considered as the myostatin inhibiting SARM and makes more follistatin.

It is arguably the most androgenic like SARM and most popular in bulking cycles.

LIST OF POTENTIAL SARM SIDE EFFECTS

VIRILIZATION - Female users need to pay close attention when using SARMS. Just like using steroids can cause the development of masculine features by reducing the femininity of the user, the same can happen when using SARMS. What makes a major difference is the fact that a female would have to use large doses of SARMS for a prolonged period of time in order to experience these symptoms. Therefore, in this regard SARMS are even less harmful than Anavar, which is known in the bodybuilding circles as the best steroid for women due to its mild side effects.

BALDNESS - For people who have a predisposition to balding, SARMS can speed up the process. Again, the same side effects a person can experience on steroids, apply to SARMS as well. The good thing when it comes to balding is that SARMS are not very androgenic, and balding is associated with products that have higher androgenic properties such as Dianabol and Anadrol. Therefore they are safer to use than steroids in this regard.

GYNECOMASTIA - The fact that SARMS have a 10:1 anabolic to androgen ratio makes them much safer to use when it comes to gynecomastia issues or water retention as well. The estrogen in your body will not raise significantly, and therefore the feminizing effects that occur when taking injectable testosterone or oral pills such as Dianabol don't have a chance to develop at moderate doses. If these side effects do occur, it is easy to treat them by taking an anti-estrogen such as Nolvadex, Clomid or Tribestan.

SUPPRESSION OF NATURAL TESTOSTERONE - SARMS can cause the suppression of natural testosterone if the cycle last for a long time (6-12 weeks, depending no the product). Ostarine can suppress natural testosterone production in a similar way that Winstrol does, as both products have a highly anabolic effect. A product called SARM S-23 should be avoided for this very reason, as it greatly supresses testosterone production in the body. Because of these potential side effects, it is advised to do a Post Cycle Therapy after longer cycles, and sometimes even after a cycle of 4-5 weeks as a general precaution.

BLURRED VISION - This side effect has caught the attention of many on the internet and spread like wildfire. No one wants to risk their vision for bigger muscles! This is a completely natural response. Some users of Ostarine on internet forums reported having this issue, that resolved after discontinuing the usage of the product. It is interesting that this side effect didn't occur in clinical trials, but it's still worth mentioning.

CONCLUSION

To sum up the SARMS side effects, they are generally the same ones that are associated with using steroids. The positive thing is that for a person to experience them it would a very non-sensical approach. For any reasonable person who uses these products at moderate doses and for a few weeks, there is no danger of serious side effects. I hope this article has helped you learn more about SARM side effects.


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## swashy (Oct 3, 2017)

unsure on the gland removal - i know it was nipples off and removed plus alot of fat from the area, but still suffer from slight puffy nipples now, poss due to bf level 14.9%

I spoke to them and they recommended Mass HG which im guessing is a pro-hormone. They never mentioned any SARMS so would be unsure which one would work well

When i read about sarms it mentioned to avoid capsule ones which is all that was available at JWS

am i still required to use their OCT and PCT or not bother and just run Nolva (this for both phm and sarms)

Thanks for advice


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

swashy said:


> unsure on the gland removal - i know it was nipples off and removed plus alot of fat from the area, but still suffer from slight puffy nipples now, poss due to bf level 14.9%
> 
> I spoke to them and they recommended Mass HG which im guessing is a pro-hormone. They never mentioned any SARMS so would be unsure which one would work well
> 
> ...


 Nipples off, that's crazy.

Getting mine done in 2 weeks at Noa in Poland, can't imagine going through all that and still having gyno issues.


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

Epistane rocks


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## BioSynth (Sep 17, 2014)

Sounds like you may need more research before diving in. The more I read about prohormones and read people's logs the more I was put off. Gyno is always going to be a risk so you need to be prepared with the drugs if your prone to it. If you really want to avoid it, don't do steroids.


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## noturbo (Oct 27, 2006)

Prohormones are just gyno in a bottle imo. Superdrol gave me gyno in 3 or 4 days. f**k that s**t. If you wanna play with hormones then research proper steroids(generally much safer) and the usual 1st cycle recomendation would be 400 to 500mg of test a week. Research aromatise inhibiters that control estrogen and negate the gyno risk. Seriously dont play with prohormones mate... not worth the risk, esp if you allready have gyno. I promise you, if you're gyno prone(which you are) most prohormones will give you terrible gyno symptoms within a week, and you wont know if its estrogen or prolactin cos who knows wtf they put in that s**t! You wanna lactate from your titties? Buy prohormones lol. You wanna grow? Buy test!


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

@swashy Mass GH is LGD+MK-677, honestly made good gains for the 1st tims using anything so it is a SARM based drug.

No sides at all, minimal shutdown. really is great for starters. but id advise 6 weeks on it for full effect.


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## noturbo (Oct 27, 2006)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> @swashy Mass GH is LGD+MK-677, honestly made good gains for the 1st tims using anything so it is a SARM based drug.
> 
> No sides at all, minimal shutdown. really is great for starters. but id advise 6 weeks on it for full effect.


 Its funny you mention that, you mean the one from olympus labs? I was looking at adding that to my cycle. Was gonna do 500mg sust for 10wk and 40mg of dbol for 4wk. But then saw that mass gh and thought maybe id do 20mg dbol for 6 wk and then mass gh for 6wk which would lead me upto pct nicely. Or just do the lgd for the last 6wk and keep the mk677 for pct.


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## noturbo (Oct 27, 2006)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> @swashy Mass GH is LGD+MK-677, honestly made good gains for the 1st tims using anything so it is a SARM based drug.
> 
> No sides at all, minimal shutdown. really is great for starters. but id advise 6 weeks on it for full effect.


 What kinda size/weight gain did you get mate? Any improved sleep from the mk? Also what dosage do they come in? Are they in the same capsual?


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

noturbo said:


> Its funny you mention that, you mean the one from olympus labs? I was looking at adding that to my cycle. Was gonna do 500mg sust for 10wk and 40mg of dbol for 4wk. But then saw that mass gh and thought maybe id do 20mg dbol for 6 wk and then mass gh for 6wk which would lead me upto pct nicely. Or just do the lgd for the last 6wk and keep the mk677 for pct.





noturbo said:


> What kinda size/weight gain did you get mate? Any improved sleep from the mk? Also what dosage do they come in? Are they in the same capsual?


 Yep Olympus it is. honestly, im big into adding SARMS + MK677 into cycles after orals have finished as they add something different into the mis and can be used for long periods of time with low sides. its both in 1 capsule so you cant split it. I ran 2 tabs a day, so 8mg LGD and 20mg MK, good for appetite to be added to a cycle.

Yes sleeps improves massively on MK-677 as well as appetite and skin clears up really fast. always keeps you nice and full too, although get some taurine cause the back and shin pumps are bad if you weight a lot.

Id buy some MK-677 as well, then run your 30mg dbol for 6 weeks(i assume you ment this if it was 40mg for 4 week) then immediatly start mass GH for the remaining 6 weeks at 2 tabs a day. when discontinuing everything to go into PCT I would then start the additional MK-677 at 30mg a day which will run you a month through your PCT with slightly raised GH/IGF-1 levels to help retain muscle and keep fat at bay.

My first cycle on Mass GH alone for 6 weeks was around 3kg, was my first ever dabble with sarms and i liked it, but its nothing like gear in terms of strength, i think its a great non liver toxic oral to use after you have run stronger orals to keep the pace.

So breakdown I guess would be:

wk 1-10 Sust 500

wk 1-6 dbol 30mg

wk 7-12 Mass GH 2 tabs

PCT wk 12 - 16 MK-677 30mg day


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