# Need help, I've got gyno... Attached a picture.



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Noticed that I had gyno around a week ago so I ordered some Pharma letro that I've now got.

letro @ 2.5mg every 2 days...

Nolvadex @ 20mg every day

Clomid @ 50mg every day

adex @ 1mg every day now

Quite worried about it now, the actual pointy bit of my nipple is all liquid, there is only a lump quite deep behind the nipple... no itchyness or soreness ever.

Don't think I'm touching steroids again.



Not sure why the pictures sideways but you can quite clearly see.


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

I think i'm gonna stop going outside because i might get hit by a bus or something if i'm not careful enough

you'll be fine, just eat your damn letro


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

I am going to eat it for as long as it takes to get rid of it...

**** aas, not worth having ****ed up nips.


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Yup you don't want gyno. Its much worse than being a little bit skinnier / less muscular without proper dedication.

Learn your body and cherish it, become the machine you were always meant to be, a *natural* predator! :rockon:


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

PumpingIron said:


> Yup you don't want gyno. Its much worse than being a little bit skinnier / less muscular without proper dedication.
> 
> Learn your body and cherish it, become the machine you were always meant to be, a *natural* predator! :rockon:


I agree with you there I just hope the letro does some good  gunna loose some bf and see how it looks


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## sean89 (Mar 1, 2013)

wot was ur cycle? use an ai?


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## artex (Apr 29, 2011)

yea. were u using an ai, what does of test were u on, any deca in there


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Just test E and Tren Ace and I was using an UG Lab so could of been underdosed... nightmare!


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Letro @ 2.5mg ed for as long as it takes for the lump to completely dissapear

Then

Letro @ 2.5mg ed for 7 days alongside Nolva 20mg ed

Continue Nolva @20mg ed for another 3 weeks to prevent rebound (you can use this as a pct and add clomid if you wish)

Don't fvck about get it sorted


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Craigyboy said:


> Letro @ 2.5mg ed for as long as it takes for the lump to completely dissapear
> 
> Then
> 
> ...


Cheers mate I'll do that now, so you're saying ditch the nolva for now and just use letro? then when I'm happy with my results taper down letro and add nolva to prevent gyno rebound?


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Cheers mate I'll do that now, so you're saying ditch the nolva for now and just use letro? then when I'm happy with my results taper down letro and add nolva to prevent gyno rebound?


Yes ditch every thing except the letro

It took me 21 days for the lump to go, if you get sides from the letro just grind it out mate it will shift it as you have prob caught it early enough

Don't taper the letro as it does it naturally due to the half life effect


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## Snorbitz1uk (Sep 21, 2005)

the letro should sort it out, 2.5mg a day for as long as it takes, might take months though.


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## Guest (May 20, 2013)

weird you didnt notice it earlier , im just on TRT atm and i play with my nipples almost as much as my balls , good luck the letro should sort it out.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Never thought gyno was an issue unless your nipples are sensative or itch which mine never did.

Going to use letro @ 2.5mg each day


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

What are Letros common side effects?


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## Glenquagmire (Aug 9, 2012)

Did you have Nolva and an Ai at the start of the cycle?


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## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Harrison21 said:


> Noticed that I had gyno around a week ago so I ordered some Pharma letro that I've now got.
> 
> letro @ 2.5mg every 2 days...
> 
> ...


*mate i know i shouldnt laugh but youre raspberry ripples are feckin hilarious...but seriously get that bad boy sorted before you put someones eye out*


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## Englishman (Oct 4, 2012)

To me your problem could be a prolactin issue as you have been hitting the Tren Ace.

Might be worth getting some Cabergoline and doing 0.5mg twice a week.

Worked wonders for me mate.


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## soob the dug (Apr 12, 2011)

my mate is bothered with lumps behind the nipple when on gear.

he's used nolva and aromase which never seemed to work. been taking letro which has worked a treat to the point where the lumps are almost gone.

hopefully that works for you man


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Englishman said:


> To me your problem could be a prolactin issue as you have been hitting the Tren Ace.
> 
> Might be worth getting some Cabergoline and doing 0.5mg twice a week.
> 
> Worked wonders for me mate.


Would you recommend taking 0.5mg of caber twice a week whilst on letro @ 2.5mg ED? Also how many weeks did it take to sort yours out and where did you get your caber?


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## Englishman (Oct 4, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Would you recommend taking 0.5mg of caber twice a week whilst on letro @ 2.5mg ED? Also how many weeks did it take to sort yours out and where did you get your caber?


I don't think it would hurt to use both but i am no expert on this, so maybe a bit more research is needed.

By the time you have got your caber you may well have a couple of weeks Letro under your belt, so may not need to run both at the same time.

I was using Tren Ace and started to get a puffy look to my lower chest, started Caber 0.5mg twice a week and it cleared it up in 3 weeks. My lower chest is now tighter than it's been in many years.

This place is gtg for your caber: http://www.aurapharm.com/dostinex_cabergoline.htm


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Englishman said:


> To me your problem could be a prolactin issue as you have been hitting the Tren Ace.
> 
> Might be worth getting some Cabergoline and doing 0.5mg twice a week.
> 
> Worked wonders for me mate.


Thanks for the help, I'll get some caber ordered now... Can't believe this is happened, kinda think it was because I was using Underground serms.


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Thanks for the help, I'll get some caber ordered now... Can't believe this is happened, kinda think it was because I was using Underground serms.


Sick with the letro first see how it is after 10 days if its going down great.

Eostrogen causes gyno, pro lactin will cause you to lactate (I think)

high eostrogen amplifies pro lactin issues so letro will sort it by driving down eostrogen levels


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm currently using letro nolva and caber to take care of my gyno while cruising.

So far 18 days in and going down well may take 3 months total to clear though I reckon.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Craigyboy said:


> Sick with the letro first see how it is after 10 days if its going down great.
> 
> Eostrogen causes gyno, pro lactin will cause you to lactate (I think)
> 
> high eostrogen amplifies pro lactin issues so letro will sort it by driving down eostrogen levels


Well I definately don't lactate, the actual lump is all water then theres a pea-sized lump deeply behind it.


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Well I definately don't lactate, the actual lump is all water then theres a pea-sized lump deeply behind it.


The puffiness will most likely go first the lump may take some time, I normally just have a lump and pain, no itchy nips or major puffiness, but were all different


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Englishman said:


> To me your problem could be a *prolactin issue* as you have been hitting the Tren Ace.
> 
> Might be worth getting some Cabergoline and doing 0.5mg twice a week.
> 
> Worked wonders for me mate.





Harrison21 said:


> Thanks for the help, I'll get some caber ordered now... Can't believe this is happened, kinda think it was because I was *using Underground serms*.


Yes, I agree with Englishman. Your gyno looks more Prolactin/Progestegenic related to me TBH, and if that is the case then you have more than likely exacerbated this by using Nolva whilst cycling a 19-nor steroid (Tren)

Carry on running Letrozole and drop the Nolva as this will lower serum plasma levels of Letro by approx 38%, then order either Cabergoline or Pramipexole to deal with possible Prolactin/Progestegenic issues. If you order Prami it is very important to taper that dose upwards from 0.25mg ED, as jumping straight on 1mg ED will make you nauseous.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Archaic said:


> Yes, I agree with Englishman. Your gyno looks more Prolactin/Progestegenic related to me TBH, and if that is the case then you have more than likely exacerbated this by using Nolva whilst cycling a 19-nor steroid (Tren)
> 
> Carry on running Letrozole and drop the Nolva as this will lower serum plasma levels of Letro by approx 38%, then order either Cabergoline or Pramipexole to deal with possible Prolactin/Progestegenic issues. If you order Prami it is very important to taper that dose upwards from 0.25mg ED, as jumping straight on 1mg ED will make you nauseous.


I used Arimidex whilst on tren, I started taking nolvadex 2 weeks after the test cleared on my PCT. I'll order some caber to be save and some more letro.


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Archaic said:


> Yes, I agree with Englishman. Your gyno looks more Prolactin/Progestegenic related to me TBH, and if that is the case then you have more than likely exacerbated this by using Nolva whilst cycling a 19-nor steroid (Tren)
> 
> Carry on running Letrozole and drop the Nolva as this will lower serum plasma levels of Letro by approx 38%, then order either Cabergoline or Pramipexole to deal with possible Prolactin/Progestegenic issues. If you order Prami it is very important to taper that dose upwards from 0.25mg ED, as jumping straight on 1mg ED will make you nauseous.


How can you tell from a picture if its prolactin or not?

Just asking?


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Harrison21 said:


> I used Arimidex whilst on tren, I started taking nolvadex 2 weeks after the test cleared on my PCT. I'll order some caber to be save and some more letro.


Ah right, you said you were using a SERM, Adex is an AI. Just bare in mind if you carry on using Nolva whilst running Letro it will lower Letro plasma levels by approx 38%, so you are making it less effective by a fair bit. Ordering a dopaminergic like Caber to run alongside the Letro would be a good idea IMO, but Prami so superior to Caber IME.



Craigyboy said:


> How can you tell from a picture if its prolactin or not?
> 
> Just asking?


You can't tell from any picture whether it's Oestrogenic or Progestagenic related, but a high percentage of the time when the person has abnormally puffy/protruding nipples then Prolactin is at play, especially when that person has been running 19-nors. Tren is the worst for progestagenic activity, as it has a 60% binding affinity to the progesteone receptor (PgR), where Deca only has a 20% binding affinity to PgR.

Also Nolva up-regulates PgR, so if the OP's gyno is indeed progestagenic/prolactin related, then he is further exacerbating it by running Nolva.

My Advice:

Letro 2.5mg ED

0.25mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.5mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.75mg Prami ED (3 days)

1mg Prami ED (from there on after, along with Letro, until all signs of gyno have subsided)

Taper Letro down afterwards and run 25mg Aromasin ED for 10 days to counter any possible E2 rebound.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Archaic said:


> Ah right, you said you were using a SERM, Adex is an AI. Just bare in mind if you carry on using Nolva whilst running Letro it will lower Letro plasma levels by approx 38%, so you are making it less effective by a fair bit. Ordering a dopaminergic like Caber to run alongside the Letro would be a good idea IMO, but Prami so superior to Caber IME.
> 
> You can't tell from any picture whether it's Oestrogenic or Progestagenic related, but a high percentage of the time when the person has abnormally puffy/protruding nipples then Prolactin is at play, especially when that person has been running 19-nors. Tren is the worst for progestagenic activity, as it has a 60% binding affinity to the progesteone receptor (PgR), where Deca only has a 20% binding affinity to PgR.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help its much appriciated, going to order some Prami as it seems cheaper than Caber plus you just said its alot better... Can I use Arimidex instead of aromasin since I've already got adex?


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Archaic said:


> Ah right, you said you were using a SERM, Adex is an AI. Just bare in mind if you carry on using Nolva whilst running Letro it will lower Letro plasma levels by approx 38%, so you are making it less effective by a fair bit. Ordering a dopaminergic like Caber to run alongside the Letro would be a good idea IMO, but Prami so superior to Caber IME.
> 
> You can't tell from any picture whether it's Oestrogenic or Progestagenic related, but a high percentage of the time when the person has abnormally puffy/protruding nipples then Prolactin is at play, especially when that person has been running 19-nors. Tren is the worst for progestagenic activity, as it has a 60% binding affinity to the progesteone receptor (PgR), where Deca only has a 20% binding affinity to PgR.
> 
> ...


Good post :thumb:


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## Guest (May 20, 2013)

Englishman said:


> To me your problem could be a prolactin issue as you have been hitting the Tren Ace.
> 
> Might be worth getting some Cabergoline and doing 0.5mg twice a week.
> 
> Worked wonders for me mate.


did high prolactin effect your libido or erections?if so in what way?cheers


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Does T3 Cytomel cause gyno? Thinking of cutting just using T3 and ECA Stack, want to loose some bodyfat to see if my chest tightens up.


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## Englishman (Oct 4, 2012)

shotgun said:


> did high prolactin effect your libido or erections?if so in what way?cheers


Not noticed any negative effects at all.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Harrison21 said:


> Can I use Arimidex instead of aromasin since I've already got adex?


No, Adex isn't suitable for that mate. Reason being Adex and Letro are Type II AI's, once you seize running them you get an oestrogen rebound. Aromasin is a Type I AI - Type-I AI's are noncompetitive inhibitor's, they bind to the aromatse enzyme and initiate hydroxylation, this hydroxylation produces an a covalent bond between the inhibitor and aromatase enzyme protein.

Basically... Aromasin deactivates the aromatase enzyme, thus, eliminating the chance of an E2 rebound. If you can't afford Aromasin and only have Nolva, then follow up with that post Letro. Nolva will protect your nips, but it wont stop the E2 rebound in your body.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Archaic said:


> No, Adex isn't suitable for that mate. Reason being Adex and Letro are Type II AI's, once you seize running them you get an oestrogen rebound. Aromasin is a Type I AI - Type-I AI's are noncompetitive inhibitor's, they bind to the aromatse enzyme and initiate hydroxylation, this hydroxylation produces an a covalent bond between the inhibitor and aromatase enzyme protein.
> 
> Basically... Aromasin deactivates the aromatase enzyme, thus, eliminating the chance of an E2 rebound. If you can't afford Aromasin and only have Nolva, then follow up with that post Letro. Nolva will protect your nips, but it wont stop the E2 rebound in your body.


Thanks alot for all the help, ordering some prami and aromasin and will run like you said:

Letro 2.5mg ED

0.25mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.5mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.75mg Prami ED (3 days)

1mg Prami ED (from there on after, along with Letro, until all signs of gyno have subsided)

Taper Letro down afterwards and run 25mg Aromasin ED for 10 days to counter any possible E2 rebound.

Just another question, going to use some T3 cytomel to cut with, not using any gear now... will this be fine whilst recovering from gyno or would you recommend waiting 1-2 months to see if my gyno improves/goes?


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## Jimbo 1 (Jul 25, 2010)

Just use Letrozole mate Tren will more likely be the culprit here, I've saved two mates with it worked a treat a strip of ten 2.5 mg normally do the trick

Cut your last ones up as you may get a oestrogen rebound


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Harrison21 said:


> Just another question, going to use some T3 cytomel to cut with, not using any gear now... will this be fine whilst recovering from gyno or would you recommend waiting 1-2 months to see if my gyno improves/goes?


Yeah T3 is fine mate. Just be sure to slowly taper the Prami upwards, if you feel you can't use more than say 0.75mg ED, then stay at that. Some people can't use 1mg ED without getting certain sides like restless sleep and nausea, but others can stay at 1mg ED perfectly fine if tapered up correctly. Do stick it out though at the dose you're comfortable with because it will no doubt work wonders for your gyno IMO. Prami is best taken after your last meal of the day.

If you do go back on cycle again btw I'd run 25mg Aromasin ED to prevent gyno from returning, and if you're running Tren or Deca I'd also run a prevention dose of 0.125mg Prami ED too.

Best of luck.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Archaic said:


> Yeah T3 is fine mate. Just be sure to slowly taper the Prami upwards, if you feel you can't use more than say 0.75mg ED, then stay at that. Some people can't use 1mg ED without getting certain sides like restless sleep and nausea, but others can stay at 1mg ED perfectly fine if tapered up correctly. Do stick it out though at the dose you're comfortable with because it will no doubt work wonders for your gyno IMO. Prami is best taken after your last meal of the day.
> 
> If you do go back on cycle again btw I'd run 25mg Aromasin ED to prevent gyno from returning, and if you're running Tren or Deca I'd also run a prevention dose of 0.125mg Prami ED too.
> 
> Best of luck.


is "Pramipexole Dihydrochloride" the correct Prami?

http://www.unitedpharmacies-uk.md/product.php?productid=656&cat=&page=1


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

Whats Prami? I know people use caber for prolactin issues but not herd of prami


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Mr_Morocco said:


> Whats Prami? I know people use caber for prolactin issues but not herd of prami


Prami/caber/dostinex are all dopamines, thats all I know... The guy whos helping me out in this thread seems to know what hes on about.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

On day 7 of Letro and believe it or not my nipple looks better in general, the lump has gone down abit but the puffyness is still there.


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Harrison21 said:


> I am going to eat it for as long as it takes to get rid of it...
> 
> **** aas, not worth having ****ed up nips.


Dont be a dumb4ss next time then and take preventative measures?


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Dont be a dumb4ss next time then and take preventative measures?


Read the thread, I was on armidex but it must of been **** and underdosed, was UG not Pharma which was a bad decision.... I had no sore/itchyness so therefore didn't think I'd get gyno. It seems to be reversing now anyway, hopefully!


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Harrison21 said:


> Read the thread, I was on armidex but it must of been **** and underdosed, was UG not Pharma which was a bad decision.... I had no sore/itchyness so therefore didn't think I'd get gyno. It seems to be reversing now anyway, hopefully!


Always stick to pharma for ai's imo mate.

Hope it works, it should do as you caught it very early. A lad in my gym the other day was looking at his nips in the mirror and were horrendous. He wouldnt have looked out of place in a bikini wet tshirt competition. His mate said to him you should try letro and his responce was "no i dont wanna lose all my gains" lol IDIOT.


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

what brand was your AI pal? ive been on for 9 weeks now and i some times get tender nips.. started taking the AI my source provided and didnt notice alot... tried a few days on my pals british dragon stuff and it was gone!


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Suprakill4 said:


> Always stick to pharma for ai's imo mate.
> 
> Hope it works, it should do as you caught it very early. A lad in my gym the other day was looking at his nips in the mirror and were horrendous. He wouldnt have looked out of place in a bikini wet tshirt competition. His mate said to him you should try letro and his responce was "no i dont wanna lose all my gains" lol IDIOT.


Yeah I strongly agree now, would much rather pay that extra few quid for Pharma grade when it comes to PCT/AI. Haha thats funny a guy at my gym was doing the same thing and seriously his boobs like an A cup, hes loaded so told him to go pay for surgery which I think hes considering.



1manarmy said:


> what brand was your AI pal? ive been on for 9 weeks now and i some times get tender nips.. started taking the AI my source provided and didnt notice alot... tried a few days on my pals british dragon stuff and it was gone!


The brand of my Arimidex was US Pharmatech, the tablets seemed so **** they fell to pieces... think I paid 45 quid for 45mg and can get 28mg of pharma arimidex for 24 quid, safe to stay with pharma grade. I bought this US Pharmatech stuff ages ago when I didn't really have much of an idea.


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## sunn (Apr 11, 2011)

Question to the op firstly glad that you seem to be getting some progress on thongs but with all the pills your taking your labido must be shot to bits?

Are you taking anything for this?


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

sunn said:


> Question to the op firstly glad that you seem to be getting some progress on thongs but with all the pills your taking your labido must be shot to bits?
> 
> Are you taking anything for this?


Taking 50mg of clomid.


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## sunn (Apr 11, 2011)

Harrison21 said:


> Taking 50mg of clomid.


Is that alongside the letro and so on I wouldn't have thought clomid would do anything to boost labido against those other drugs but perhapa I just have a poor undertanding!

But the proofs in the pudding all the best mate


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## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

So what's a decent Pharma AI? I've always used UGLs for serms/AIs but only done PHs until now and hoping to do a test e cycle in the near future. Want to make sure my AI is legit.


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

My gyno flares up on prop. Using my AI ed rather than eod seems to help me out


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

Harrison 21- iv sucessfully reversed gyno from test deca cycle before using letro but to get rid of the lumps completely may take weeks even months. think it took me 6weeks to clear it by which time i had zero sex drive and lost majority of gains. but to be honest id rather that that gyno!!! I had a lump under each nipple and puffyness on top. the puffyness btw is very hard to get rid of completely and i still have an element of that left! from my understanding - the puffyness is caused by the prog gyno from the 19nors and it harder to eradicate. i didnt try caber or prami though. id be willing to hit caber/[prami now if it would be effective long after the gyno (was over a year ago, maybe longer)

good luck


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Logman said:


> So what's a decent Pharma AI? I've always used UGLs for serms/AIs but only done PHs until now and hoping to do a test e cycle in the near future. Want to make sure my AI is legit.


Aromasin is supposed to be the best AI but most people use Arimidex as its harder to find Aromasin.



sitries said:


> Harrison 21- iv sucessfully reversed gyno from test deca cycle before using letro but to get rid of the lumps completely may take weeks even months. think it took me 6weeks to clear it by which time i had zero sex drive and lost majority of gains. but to be honest id rather that that gyno!!! I had a lump under each nipple and puffyness on top. the puffyness btw is very hard to get rid of completely and i still have an element of that left! from my understanding - the puffyness is caused by the prog gyno from the 19nors and it harder to eradicate. i didnt try caber or prami though. id be willing to hit caber/[prami now if it would be effective long after the gyno (was over a year ago, maybe longer)
> 
> good luck


Thats good to know, hopefully I've caught my gyno early... it does seem to be reversing slightly and its only 7 days in... not sure if I should run prami now or wait a few weeks and see what letro has done on its own, if you read this thread someone explains that when using prami/letro it completely got rid of his gyno/puffyness.


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

It's not hard to find on alldaychemist which half this website uses...


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Superhorse said:


> It's not hard to find on alldaychemist which half this website uses...


Thats true but theres too many people complaining about having their card details taken, might not happen to you but just ain't worth it. I've always heard good things about United pharmacies.uk though.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

sunn said:


> Is that alongside the letro and so on I wouldn't have thought clomid would do anything to boost labido against those other drugs but perhapa I just have a poor undertanding!
> 
> But the proofs in the pudding all the best mate


my Libido is going down I can tell but I still have sex so it can't be rock bottom, just takes ages to finish. I suppose 50mg of clomid is better than none


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

I can't believe my nipple has had 1,300 views...


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

dude, dont take any chances!!! yes you have caught ur gyno early but thats not the be all and end all! you need to use every weapon in ur ****nal to get rid of it asap or else ul be blowing 2k on surgery or suffering with it for good! Get some prami and get it on board asap!!!!!!!!!!

why use letro alone if youv got the chance to use another compound which will help???


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

btw all day chemist have been fine for me in the past. so have united though


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

sitries said:


> dude, dont take any chances!!! yes you have caught ur gyno early but thats not the be all and end all! you need to use every weapon in ur ****nal to get rid of it asap or else ul be blowing 2k on surgery or suffering with it for good! Get some prami and get it on board asap!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> why use letro alone if youv got the chance to use another compound which will help???


You've got a good point mate, just orderd this second from United pharmacies, got 30mg of Prami and Aromasin... As stated previously in this thread this is how my gyno cycle will go!

Letro 2.5mg ED

0.25mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.5mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.75mg Prami ED (3 days)

1mg Prami ED (from there on after, along with Letro, until all signs of gyno have subsided)

Taper Letro down afterwards and run 25mg Aromasin ED for 10 days to counter any possible E2 rebound

How long did United Pharmacies take for you? says 7-14 days.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

yep that reversal cycle is the way to go! iv read this whole thread and the guy that gave you that info sounds like he knows what hes talking about. If that wont get rid of your gyno then only other option is surgery! but i think those meds (if used for long enough) will all but eradicate it. Im like you regarding gear use now - i dont use it - causes me way to many gyno worries!

dont remember how long stuff came mate - it was so long ago


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

sitries said:


> yep that reversal cycle is the way to go! iv read this whole thread and the guy that gave you that info sounds like he knows what hes talking about. If that wont get rid of your gyno then only other option is surgery! but i think those meds (if used for long enough) will all but eradicate it. Im like you regarding gear use now - i dont use it - causes me way to many gyno worries!
> 
> dont remember how long stuff came mate - it was so long ago


I'm deffo taking a year or so off steroids after this, running letro/prami for a while won't be good for my sex drive so going to let me body repair for a while then if I'm happy with my nipples I may think about running 8-10 week quick acting cycles with Aromasin.

Suppose Letro will do help out until the prami comes, just a waiting game now... I am getting weaker in the gym though, must eat more!


----------



## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

Letro is the main player in that stack anyway mate so as long as ub got that ur going in the right direction. once the lumps have gone you should run the letro for another week or so just to make sure its fully gone. then make sure you run your Aromasin!!!


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

sitries said:


> Letro is the main player in that stack anyway mate so as long as ub got that ur going in the right direction. once the lumps have gone you should run the letro for another week or so just to make sure its fully gone. then make sure you run your Aromasin!!!


Its more the puffyness thats the problem thats why it looks so big, the size of the actual gyno is tiny... its the size of a pea or smaller.


----------



## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

People have only had issues with that when they give their credit card details to an Indian call centre worker. If you asked me if that was a good idea for anything I'd tell you, you were ****1n crazy.



Harrison21 said:


> Thats true but theres too many people complaining about having their card details taken, might not happen to you but just ain't worth it. I've always heard good things about United pharmacies.uk though.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Noticed that I had gyno around a week ago so I ordered some Pharma letro that I've now got.
> 
> letro @ 2.5mg every 2 days...
> 
> ...


Can't see clearly the rest of your physique, but you don't look like (from what I can see, I could be totally wrong!) you are ready to take steroids at all. Anyway I'm going off the target, keep doing your AI course and wish you best of luck to have those puffy nips disappear soon.

Please rethink your approach to weight lifting and steroids with a bit better planning next time!


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> I'm deffo taking a year or so off steroids after this, running letro/prami for a while won't be good for my sex drive so going to let me body repair for a while then if I'm happy with my nipples I may think about running 8-10 week quick acting cycles with Aromasin.
> 
> Suppose Letro will do help out until the prami comes, just a waiting game now... I am getting weaker in the gym though, must eat more!


Never mind the sex drive for now mate, sort out this little inconvenience and then think about everything else again.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Can't see clearly the rest of your physique, but you don't look like (from what I can see, I could be totally wrong!) you are ready to take steroids at all. Anyway I'm going off the target, keep doing your AI course and wish you best of luck to have those puffy nips disappear soon.
> 
> Please rethink your approach to weight lifting and steroids with a bit better planning next time!




I'm 15,2 stone at 6ft1, most guys on here take steroids when they are 11-12 stone so thats abit of a joke.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> View attachment 122301
> View attachment 122302
> 
> 
> I'm 15,2 stone at 6ft1, most guys on here take steroids when they are 11-12 stone so thats abit of a joke.


You have got very well developed legs. The upper body is not as well developed as your legs. You are 15,2stone, but you are also very tall, and it looks like you have quite a solid bone structure, so that's no joke at all. If you get massive sides it means your body can't take the quantity of roids you've been putting in, it's that simple... It is not detrimental towards you, it just means you need to take things more slowly and find the perfect quantity and type of compounds you can tolerate. Everyone is different. I can take 2g a week of stuff easily, but I cannot touch nandrolone or anadrol, those are like kryptonite for superman for me. I realised with years of hit and miss. It's like that for everyone.

So no joke, rethink the way you train and your need and posology of steroids, and you'll see you won't regret it. You have a good mesomorph structure, train hard, eat well and eventually take the right stuff and you'll be one hell of a bodybuilder.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> You have got very well developed legs. The upper body is not as well developed as your legs. You are 15,2stone, but you are also very tall, and it looks like you have quite a solid bone structure, so that's no joke at all. If you get massive sides it means your body can't take the quantity of roids you've been putting in, it's that simple... It is not detrimental towards you, it just means you need to take things more slowly and find the perfect quantity and type of compounds you can tolerate. Everyone is different. I can take 2g a week of stuff easily, but I cannot touch nandrolone or anadrol, those are like kryptonite for superman for me. I realised with years of hit and miss. It's like that for everyone.
> 
> So no joke, rethink the way you train and your need and posology of steroids, and you'll see you won't regret it. You have a good mesomorph structure, train hard, eat well and eventually take the right stuff and you'll be one hell of a bodybuilder.


 I am stopping for quite a while only problem is I just spent like 400 quid on a massive cycle, what a ****take. Next time I run Test I will be running either Aromasin/adex Each day not every other day, just aint worth it if I'm gyno prone... If I can't get this of this current gyno then I will obviously not cycle again. thanks for the help though I've realised I need to chill out for abit.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> I am stopping for quite a while only problem is I just spent like 400 quid on a massive cycle, what a ****take. Next time I run Test I will be running either Aromasin/adex Each day not every other day, just aint worth it if I'm gyno prone... If I can't get this of this current gyno then I will obviously not cycle again. thanks for the help though I've realised I need to chill out for abit.


Your gyno doesnt look irreversible at all. My point earlier was that as a first cycle you shouldnt bombard yourself with grams and grams of stuf if you dont know exactly what it's going to do to you. As for next cycle, after the gyno will be surely gone with the letro, I suggest Aromasin, it's the most side free AI I have ever come across. I don't need it, but if I did, thats what I would use.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Your gyno doesnt look irreversible at all. My point earlier was that as a first cycle you shouldnt bombard yourself with grams and grams of stuf if you dont know exactly what it's going to do to you. As for next cycle, after the gyno will be surely gone with the letro, I suggest Aromasin, it's the most side free AI I have ever come across. I don't need it, but if I did, thats what I would use.


The lump that I have is tiny its the puffyness which is quite bad but I've got prami on the way and going to run both that and letro at the same time for as long as it takes to make me happy, you're right I was using way too much test, everything else was fine. Yeah I'll use aromasin from now on ED when I cycle again.

As for the sex drive I don't mind it, my girlfriend is buying me Viagra though so it must be ****ing her off.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Can't see clearly the rest of your physique, but you don't look like (from what I can see, I could be totally wrong!) you are ready to take steroids at all. Anyway I'm going off the target, keep doing your AI course and wish you best of luck to have those puffy nips disappear soon.
> 
> Please rethink your approach to weight lifting and steroids with a bit better planning next time!


Haven't you taken gear for 10 years and look like that In your avi? Barely one to get on your high horse


----------



## huarache (May 28, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Haven't you taken gear for 10 years and look like that In your avi? Barely one to get on your high horse


BOOOOOOMMMM


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Haven't you taken gear for 10 years and look like that In your avi? Barely one to get on your high horse


First of all it wasn't offensive, and I pointed it out. My avi was taken in february after losing 28KG of fat with a heavy DNP cycle, I would say I am happy about the results. I will upload a more recent one soon.

As I explained many times in my DNP diary, I had to interrupt gym and all for 6 years to attend a dying parent, gained a lot of weigh, and then when I was free to think about myself again I took some measures to lose the fat first and then get back on a blast and cruise until I'm sorted again as I was in my younger years. So far so good!


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> First of all it wasn't offensive, and I pointed it out. My avi was taken in february after losing 28KG of fat with a heavy DNP cycle, I would say I am happy about the results. I will upload a more recent one soon.
> 
> As I explained many times in my DNP diary, I had to interrupt gym and all for 6 years to attend a dying parent, gained a lot of weigh, and then when I was free to think about myself again I took some measures to lose the fat first and then get back on a blast and cruise until I'm sorted again as I was in my younger years. So far so good!


As I said barely one to get on your high horse. He made a thread for help with gyno not asking for some anorexic cvnts opinion on wether he should be on gear.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Archaic said:


> Yes, I agree with Englishman. *Your gyno looks more Prolactin/Progestegenic* related to me TBH, and if that is the case then *you have more than likely exacerbated this by using Nolva whilst cycling a 19-nor steroid (Tren)*
> 
> *
> *
> ...





Archaic said:


> Ah right, you said you were using a SERM, Adex is an AI. Just bare in mind if you carry on using Nolva whilst running Letro it will lower Letro plasma levels by approx 38%, so you are making it less effective by a fair bit. Ordering a dopaminergic like Caber to run alongside the Letro would be a good idea IMO, but Prami so superior to Caber IME.
> 
> *You can't tell from any picture whether it's Oestrogenic or Progestagenic related, but a high percentage of the time when the person has abnormally puffy/protruding nipples then Prolactin* is at play, especially when that person has been running 19-nors. Tren is the worst for progestagenic activity, as it has a 60% binding affinity to the progesteone receptor (PgR), where Deca only has a 20% binding affinity to PgR.
> 
> ...


Not true.

Not true.

Not true.

Lets not confuse the issue and just deal with what is medically factual please.


----------



## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Mars said:


> Not true.
> 
> Not true.
> 
> ...


But he's read it on another board so it must be true........ :confused1:


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Mars said:


> Not true.
> 
> Not true.
> 
> ...


I wasn't using Nolva whilst on tren anyway, but have bought prami to go with my letro just to be safe, does the reversible gyno cycle sound good to you?

Letro 2.5mg ED

0.25mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.5mg Prami ED (3 days)

0.75mg Prami ED (3 days)

1mg Prami ED (from there on after, along with Letro, until all signs of gyno have subsided)

Taper Letro down afterwards and run 25mg Aromasin ED for 10 days to counter any possible E2 rebound.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Mars said:


> Not true.
> 
> Not true.
> 
> ...


Does taking nolva with tren/deca actually cause prolactin issues?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> As I said barely one to get on your high horse. He made a thread for help with gyno not asking for some anorexic cvnts opinion on wether he should be on gear.


Dude, are you on tren? You seem a bit nervous. I gave Harrison21 an advice coming from years of experience. I am not anorexic at 95KG, and I am not a cvnt. I wish I was though. I told him not to give up because sides occur, it is part of the process of getting the right dosages and the right compound for you. Speaking of which, it seems that whatever you are taking now is making you very nervous, I suggest to chill out a bit.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> I wasn't using Nolva whilst on tren anyway, but have bought prami to go with my letro just to be safe, does the reversible gyno cycle sound good to you?
> 
> Letro 2.5mg ED
> 
> ...


Sounds ok, but just to be safe I would visit my GP and explain the situation. It's not like you did anything illegal taking roids. Perhaps you can get a better confirmation from a doctor than from any of us. Just to be safe, it's free, too.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Dude, are you on tren? You seem a bit nervous. I gave Harrison21 an advice coming from years of experience. I am not anorexic at 95KG, and I am not a cvnt. I wish I was though. I told him not to give up because sides occur, it is part of the process of getting the right dosages and the right compound for you. Speaking of which, it seems that whatever you are taking now is making you very nervous, I suggest to chill out a bit.


Nope not on tren, just think its laughable when people get on their high horse about others on gear especially on a thread not asking for advice on gear.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Sounds ok, but just to be safe I would visit my GP and explain the situation. It's not like you did anything illegal taking roids. Perhaps you can get a better confirmation from a doctor than from any of us. Just to be safe, it's free, too.


 A friend of mine has a solid rock ball the size of like 3 marbles put together, he's gone to the doctors and they've referred him to see a specialist... my gyno isnt a quarter as bad as his so not going to speak to the doctors yet.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Nope not on tren, just think its laughable when people get on their high horse about others on gear especially on a thread not asking for advice on gear.


You are rude, aggressive and antisocial. I have negged you for that. As for the gyno, I have given him advice also for that, so please stop instructing me on how to answer to other members.

And drink a chamomile or something, you are being very rude.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> A friend of mine has a solid rock ball the size of like 3 marbles put together, he's gone to the doctors and they've referred him to see a specialist... my gyno isnt a quarter as bad as his so not going to speak to the doctors yet.


As I said your plan looks ok and it seems that your case is reversible. I'm just saying if I was you I would just pop at my GP and tell him or her my choice of pharmaceuticals and just see the reaction, maybe there are better or faster ways to eliminate this issue. But yep, to me it just looks like you got it all planned out.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> You are rude, aggressive and antisocial. I have negged you for that. As for the gyno, I have given him advice also for that, so please stop instructing me on how to answer to other members.
> 
> And drink a chamomile or something, you are being very rude.


 :blowme:


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Only thing I don't know is how long prami takes to be effective, I know letro is different and can be 2-4 weeks to reach a peak level.

By the time I recieve my Prami I will have been on letro for 3 weeks so hopefully I might be seeing abit of a difference.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> :blowme:


Sorry but I don't swing that way. Reported, by the way, let's see what mods think about your foul attitude.


----------



## Jon.B (Mar 8, 2011)

Get enough letro to run for a fair few weeks and it will go. I have just reversed a fair size lump in 12 weeks that was about 1 year old and fairly hard to touch. Sex drive ain't even that bad when cruising on a low dose of test


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Does T3 Cytomel cause gyno? Thinking of cutting just using T3 and ECA Stack, want to loose some bodyfat to see if my chest tightens up.


There's no way T3 causes gyno, but considering you are on PCT now, you might experience some unwanted muscle loss if you go heavy on a cut with T3. Clen would be more appropriate. Personally, I could never take Clen AND ECA, otherwise say hi to Parkinsons  But you can give it a try!


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Sorry but I don't swing that way. Reported, by the way, let's see what mods think about your foul attitude.


There is also a sticky saying it is against the rules to say others shouldn't be on gear


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Just to reaffirm the childish and absolutely brutish behaviour of @kingdale , he negged me for pointing him out it is rude to be called an "anorexic cent" on a public forum in an otherwise peaceful discussion. Some people understand only their own foul, bestial language, and it depresses me we share somehow the same DNA.

What shows quite clearly the IQ of this individual is the reason for negative reputation: "lol".

Way to go.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> There is also a sticky saying it is against the rules to say others shouldn't be on gear


I did not say that. I told him he took too much, and in fact he got a nice pair of boobies. I told him to rethink his AAS intake, I didn't tell him to stop or to take more or anything like that. But it's is now more than obvious you think you are way more clever than me, and you need to prove this to yourself first, that is when your roid rage fades out. You are acting like an idiot.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

I just returned a neg don't cry too much


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I just returned a neg don't cry too much


So, in your fantasy world, when you get negged it is abitual custom to neg back for the sake of it? I see you are not just brutish and rude, but also very immature. How old are you? 19?


----------



## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

kick his ass


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> So, in your fantasy world, when you get negged it is abitual custom to neg back for the sake of it? I see you are not just brutish and rude, but also very immature. How old are you? 19?


Sound like you are taking the rep system a bit seriously


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Sound like you are taking the rep system a bit seriously


And it sounds like you called me an anorexic cvnt after I said I had to stop training and gained weigh to attend a dying parent. Who's the cvnt?

You just won't admit when you are wrong, won't you? They say it takes a stronger man to admit one's fault, and that says a lot about you.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Jon.B said:


> Get enough letro to run for a fair few weeks and it will go. I have just reversed a fair size lump in 12 weeks that was about 1 year old and fairly hard to touch. Sex drive ain't even that bad when cruising on a low dose of test


Thats reassuring, on my long esthered cutting cycle I'm going to stick with 400-500mg of test to keep it safe. Thats if my gyno goes.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Thats reassuring, on my long esthered cutting cycle I'm going to stick with 400-500mg of test to keep it safe. Thats if my gyno goes.


At your weight that's pretty conservative. However it's good that you stick to such a low dosage with aromasin and see how it goes. Perhaps you can up it to 750mg after 4-5 weeks if everything is perfectly in check.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> At your weight that's pretty conservative. However it's good that you stick to such a low dosage with aromasin and see how it goes. Perhaps you can up it to 750mg after 4-5 weeks if everything is perfectly in check.


Just going to see how my body reacts to what dosage of test after I've got rid of this gyno, how much would you use of both *Prami *and *Aromasin* *ON cycle* Whilst on bulkrip at around 500mg of test cyp/ 300-400mg of tren E and 500mg of Mast E?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Just going to see how my body reacts to what dosage of test after I've got rid of this gyno, how much would you use of both *Prami *and *Aromasin* *ON cycle* Whilst on bulkrip at around 500mg of test cyp/ 300-400mg of tren E and 500mg of Mast E?


I have never used praml, so I wouldn't be able to give you a direct experience about that. I have used in the past liquid aromasin, and I was just taking the equivalent of a tab in the morning, absolutely zero sides. Good choice to include Masteron, as it has some mild but welcome AI properties.


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

lol jokes


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

OK ladies, lets all play nice here, we are all good buddies.

Letro will do it by itself, no use in all the other crap.

Do not play with them either, nipple stimulation is known to increase localized prolactin, just leave them alone.

Sides of the letro will be but not limited too, mood issues, joint stiffness, erectile dysfunction, no libido, possible compromise in lipid profiles, etc.

Can take up to 3 weeks for blood plasma to get up to speed.

Probably already been said but taper that or estrogen rebounding will bring it back with a passion.

I did not have much luck with letro, prami makes me spaced out as hell and I gave mine away.

Hated that stuff, not to mention manipulating prolactin can compromise immune system and put LH receptors at risk.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> OK ladies, lets all play nice here, we are all good buddies.
> 
> Letro will do it by itself, no use in all the other crap.
> 
> ...


Thanks alot hope it works for me, would you still recommend tapering off letro and using aromasin to prevent rebound gyno or will tapering down letro by itself be sufficient?


----------



## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

Sorry to hijack the thread, I'm only suffering from the puffiness, no lumps at all, after a course of tbol - nolva did nothing, do you think letro would get rid?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Harrison21 said:


> Thanks alot hope it works for me, would you still recommend tapering off letro and using aromasin to prevent rebound gyno or will tapering down letro by itself be sufficient?


You can taper it, I dont trust aromasin myself, but if you want you can add the nolva at the back of the letro once the gyno goes away, then just run the nolva for a couple of weeks and then even taper that.

If after a month or 5 weeks nothing happens, you may not be able to reverse it.

I would not run a long course of letro if nothing is happening.

I reversed my gyno using letro.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

waghorn said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread, I'm only suffering from the puffiness, no lumps at all, after a course of tbol - nolva did nothing, do you think letro would get rid?


Could just be where you deposit fat, puffy does not necessarily mean gyno.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

hackskii said:


> OK ladies, lets all play nice here, we are all good buddies.
> 
> Letro will do it by itself, no use in all the other crap.
> 
> ...


Would you not bother with prami or caber on a tren cycle?


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> You can taper it, I dont trust aromasin myself, but if you want you can add the nolva at the back of the letro once the gyno goes away, then just run the nolva for a couple of weeks and then even taper that.
> 
> If after a month or 5 weeks nothing happens, you may not be able to reverse it.
> 
> ...


Thanks I'll see how Letro only goes, been on 2.5mg ED for 8 days so far... Prami won't be here for 2 weeks so by the time thats here I'll of been on letro 3 weeks and should see abit of a difference.... Might save the aromasin and prami for my next cutting cycle and just taper down letro and then nolva to prevent rebound.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

kingdale said:


> Would you not bother with prami or caber on a tren cycle?


No.

Why would I inhibit prolactin during a cycle that contains a progestin?


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

hackskii said:


> No.
> 
> Why would I inhibit prolactin during a cycle that contains a progestin?


Cheers just saved me a load of cash. Everything you read has totally different opinions


----------



## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Could just be where you deposit fat, puffy does not necessarily mean gyno.


They only really got puffy after the tbol tho - just fat you reckon?


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

hackskii said:


> No.
> 
> Why would I inhibit prolactin during a cycle that contains a progestin?


Tren does not aromatise in the body, but does convert to a metabolite that displays a very strong binding affinity to PgR, which is slightly stronger than progesterone itself. Progestins have been shown to have a stimulatory effect on (PRL-R) mRNA by increasing PRL-R protein. Tren has caused prolactin issues for me frequently in the past, and that you cannot argue with.

If you have never suffered prolactin induced gyno whilst running a 19-Nor, it does not go to say no-one has/does...


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Archaic said:


> Tren does not aromatise in the body, but does convert to a metabolite that displays a very strong binding affinity to PgR, which is slightly stronger than progesterone itself. Progestins have been shown to have a stimulatory effect on (PRL-R) mRNA by increasing PRL-R protein. Tren has caused prolactin issues for me frequently in the past, and that you cannot argue with.
> 
> If you have never suffered prolactin induced gyno whilst running a 19-Nor, it does not go to say no-one has/does...


I'm one of the "lucky" ones who suffered gyno with Anadrol, which means I might be prone also with nandrolone or trenbolone. It hasn't happened yet with those compounds, but yep, nor19 gyno does exist. Anadrol being the most extreme under that aspect. 50mg a day really had way more sides than anything else for me.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

waghorn said:


> They only really got puffy after the tbol tho - just fat you reckon?


Due to it not aromitizing during your cycle, and your endogenous testosterone dropped or stopped, and the fact that no conversion to estrogen, it is likely this is some form of estrogen rebounding once endogenous production started, those sensitive estrogen receptors had a field day.



Archaic said:


> Tren does not aromatise in the body, but does convert to a metabolite that displays a very strong binding affinity to PgR, which is slightly stronger than progesterone itself. Progestins have been shown to have a stimulatory effect on (PRL-R) mRNA by increasing PRL-R protein. Tren has caused prolactin issues for me frequently in the past, and that you cannot argue with.
> 
> If you have never suffered prolactin induced gyno whilst running a 19-Nor, it does not go to say no-one has/does...


But 19-nortestosterone like deca does aromitize at about 20%.

My feelings are that without estrogen in the mix, it would be hard to get gyno, inhibit estrogen and I doubt deca would give a guy gyno, tren included.

Were you using tren alone, or did you have something like testosterone in with it?

If you had testosterone in the mix, it is likely that the extra estrogen kind of fueled your gyno.



TheMeatWagon said:


> I'm one of the "lucky" ones who suffered gyno with Anadrol, which means I might be prone also with nandrolone or trenbolone. It hasn't happened yet with those compounds, but yep, nor19 gyno does exist. Anadrol being the most extreme under that aspect. 50mg a day really had way more sides than anything else for me.


Anadrol is not a progestin but a DHT dirivitive drug which does not aromitze.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Due to it not aromitizing during your cycle, and your endogenous testosterone dropped or stopped, and the fact that no conversion to estrogen, it is likely this is some form of estrogen rebounding once endogenous production started, those sensitive estrogen receptors had a field day.
> 
> But 19-nortestosterone like deca does aromitize at about 20%.
> 
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19-Norandrostenedione

I am pretty sure that Anadrol is not a DHT derivative and is a nor19 hormone. My apologies if I am indeed wrong.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

TheMeatWagon said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19-Norandrostenedione
> 
> I am pretty sure that Anadrol is not a DHT derivative and is a nor19 hormone. My apologies if I am indeed wrong.


Read that again, it was comparing 19-nor to dihydro-testosterone that being 10 times less androgenic than that.

It is a DHT dirivitive steroid, has nothing to do with 19-nortestosterone at all.

It is more of a combination of 17a-methyl-dihydrotestosterone, and 17alpha-methyltestosteron, pull up chemical muscle enhancement by Arthor L. Rea, or any of the anabolic books by William Llwellen, both will tell you the same thing I am.

Dig some more and you will find just what I said to be true, and it is a mystery as to why guys get gyno from oxymetholone (anadrol).

It has no progesteronic affects to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Also been told my puffy nipples could be this:

*Lipomastia*, fat that is located behind, in and around the nipple. This becomes worse when you retain water. The best thing you can do is get real lean, I have to be below 11% for my nips to flatten out


----------



## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

hackskii said:


> Due to it not aromitizing during your cycle, and your endogenous testosterone dropped or stopped, and the fact that no conversion to estrogen, it is likely this is some form of estrogen rebounding once endogenous production started, those sensitive estrogen receptors had a field day. '
> 
> Would letro or anything else get rid of the puffiness or is it just a case of letting time heal itself? Thanks for the responses btw.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

waghorn said:


> Fat loss would be the best thing.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Fat loss would be the best thing.


Going to run letro till lumps gone and then if my nipple is still puffy it must be fat behind the nipple, I'll start cutting if thats the issue.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Going to run letro till lumps gone and then if my nipple is still puffy it must be fat behind the nipple, I'll start cutting if thats the issue.


Do keep in mind that for some people the lower part of the pecs is the hardest ever to fill up. Of course it depends on genetics, and where the nipple is placed, it's different for everyone, but for some people including me, developing the lower part of the pecs has been the hardest part ever, and till the very end there was that little pit of fat that looked like a titty. Do keep in mind that this is not your case now, it really looks like you got some gyno flaring up, keep going with your meds and keep us informed.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Do keep in mind that for some people the lower part of the pecs is the hardest ever to fill up. Of course it depends on genetics, and where the nipple is placed, it's different for everyone, but for some people including me, developing the lower part of the pecs has been the hardest part ever, and till the very end there was that little pit of fat that looked like a titty. Do keep in mind that this is not your case now, it really looks like you got some gyno flaring up, keep going with your meds and keep us informed.


Yeah my lower chest is under-developed so much compared to the top, does decline bench press actually work?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Yeah my lower chest is under-developed so much compared to the top, does decline bench press actually work?


What really helped for me (I am still lacking though!) was to inject dbol-mtren-testsusp water blend pre workout, eat more on chest day and do dips until failure at the end of my chest workout. In all these years this is what made me see some shape where there was almost none before.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> What really helped for me (I am still lacking though!) was to inject dbol-mtren-testsusp water blend pre workout, eat more on chest day and do dips until failure at the end of my chest workout. In all these years this is what made me see some shape where there was almost none before.


Yeah I tend to do dips I'll make sure I do it to failure next time,my nipples are in a odd place naturally because the way my chest is built but then again I've only trained for a year... give it another year and it should be twice as big and hopefully tighter!


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

It certainly helped to eat more on chest day and pay more attention overall to the whole chest training. Also crossover cables helped, other than cranking up a bit the max weight on the obvious bench press.


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## TJ_ (Jan 16, 2013)

How you getting on mate?


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

TJ_ said:


> How you getting on mate?


On day 9 and the lump is getting smaller, tryng not to touch it though... I'll post an update in a couple week as most people say 3-5 weeks is when it makes a big change.


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

I understand as advised here your using Letro and not Nolvadex, but why? Is it mainly because Nolvadex is not as strong, and would therefore take a lot longer to get rid of the gyno?

Also, are the side affects the same for both products?


----------



## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

Jas said:


> I understand as advised here your using Letro and not Nolvadex, but why? Is it mainly because Nolvadex is not as strong, and would therefore take a lot longer to get rid of the gyno?
> 
> Also, are the side affects the same for both products?


AIUI, nolva won't reduce gyno


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

*Day 11.*

Good news - the tiny lump in my right nipple has completely disappeared and it looks completely fine now, abit puffy but this is probably just my bodyfat.

As for the worse nipple the lump has shrunk by about 50% but the puffyness is still there... I'll be hopefully getting my prami through the mail in the next 10 days, this should get rid of the puffyness and then I start cutting in 7 weeks so bye bye body fat!


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## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

resten said:


> AIUI, nolva won't reduce gyno


Ok for anyone unaware of what AIUI, its "As I Understand it", i had to look it up


----------



## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

Harrison21 said:


> Good news - the tiny lump in my right nipple has completely disappeared and it looks completely fine now, abit puffy but this is probably just my bodyfat.
> 
> As for the worse nipple the lump has shrunk by about 50% but the puffyness is still there... I'll be hopefully getting my prami through the mail in the next 10 days, this should get rid of the puffyness and then I start cutting in 7 weeks so bye bye body fat!


Had to recap mate for my own sake, as this thread went off to some scrap somewhere  So to recap what you had was gyno, caused by not using an anti-estrogen blocker like aromasin, arimidex or nolvadex. This caused you to get gyno, excess breast tissue, and the letro has nearly killed it


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## Jas (Sep 23, 2010)

How were your side affects whilst on the letro, and are you on anything else besides the letro?


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

*day 13 of Letro @ 2.5mg per day.*

The lump has shrunk even more and feels less hard all around, the only problem thats still there is the puffyness... this must be prolacting or just bodyfat, this prami needs to hurry up


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Puffyness is not gyno


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Puffyness is not gyno


What could this puffyness be as its quite bad? but I am only around 15% BF.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Harrison21 said:


> What could this puffyness be as its quite bad? but I am only around 15% BF.


Probably just where you store fat, or one of the places.

Men waist line, women hips, so many men have this.

doubt this will reverse without any AI, or SERM.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Probably just where you store fat, or one of the places.
> 
> Men waist line, women hips, so many men have this.
> 
> doubt this will reverse without any AI, or SERM.


Sorry I'm confused what do you mean by 'Doubt this will reverse without any AI, or SERM'?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Harrison21 said:


> Sorry I'm confused what do you mean by 'Doubt this will reverse without any AI, or SERM'?


I feel like I am repeating myself.

I suggested puffy nipples were not gyno, you run the AI, lumps get smaller but puffy nipples do not.

Puffy nipples are not gyno, and an AI will not work to reverse that, surgery will, have them lipo your nips and be done with it.


----------



## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I feel like I am repeating myself.
> 
> I suggested puffy nipples were not gyno, you run the AI, lumps get smaller but puffy nipples do not.
> 
> Puffy nipples are not gyno, and an AI will not work to reverse that, surgery will, have them lipo your nips and be done with it.


Or just go on a cut to say 12% and see if the puffyness decreases. Itl just be stored fat mate


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## squirt (Mar 22, 2012)

12% bf won't do it u would need to be 8-9% for them to completly flatten out IMO well that's what worked for me if I'm above 10% they start goin puffy again


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I feel like I am repeating myself.
> 
> I suggested puffy nipples were not gyno, you run the AI, lumps get smaller but puffy nipples do not.
> 
> Puffy nipples are not gyno, and an AI will not work to reverse that, surgery will, have them lipo your nips and be done with it.


I see, well I'm cutting in around 6 weeks for 16 weeks so hopefully loosing alot of bodyfat will make my chest tighter and my nipples less puffy... I can't afford surgery.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

squirt said:


> 12% bf won't do it u would need to be 8-9% for them to completly flatten out IMO well that's what worked for me if I'm above 10% they start goin puffy again


I'll try get to 10%BF it should make a big difference loosing a third of my bodys fat. I reckon my nipples will look fine after this 16 week cut, loosing 5% in 16 weeks on fat burners is possible ain't it?


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

Just become a power lifter and don't be cut. I bet they don't worry about puffy nips lol


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

1manarmy said:


> Just become a power lifter and don't be cut. I bet they don't worry about puffy nips lol


They have inverted nipples they are that fat haha


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## squirt (Mar 22, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> They have inverted nipples they are that fat haha


Hey I'm a power lifter and I ent fat lol


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## squirt (Mar 22, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> I'll try get to 10%BF it should make a big difference loosing a third of my bodys fat. I reckon my nipples will look fine after this 16 week cut, loosing 5% in 16 weeks on fat burners is possible ain't it?


Yer easily even without fat burners


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

squirt said:


> Yer easily even without fat burners


What are your deadlifts and squats like? Its my first time cutting so don't really have a clue how much I can actually loose but I'll be on test/tren/masteron/winny/t3/t5 

I'll try get to 8 or 9% then, just smash diet and cardio!


----------



## squirt (Mar 22, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> What are your deadlifts and squats like? Its my first time cutting so don't really have a clue how much I can actually loose but I'll be on test/tren/masteron/winny/t3/t5
> 
> I'll try get to 8 or 9% then, just smash diet and cardio!


I weigh in at the mo at 74kg squat is 225kg deadlift 245kg bench 145kg


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

squirt said:


> I weigh in at the mo at 74kg squat is 225kg deadlift 245kg bench 145kg


Strong guy for 74kg, I've only trained for a year and currently at 15 stone, my lifts are quite crap to say how big I am but hopefully I'll keep or get stronger on this cut.


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## squirt (Mar 22, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Strong guy for 74kg, I've only trained for a year and currently at 15 stone, my lifts are quite crap to say how big I am but hopefully I'll keep or get stronger on this cut.


Well it is possible to get stronger on a cut just do low carb 3 days then carb up day and repeat I'm cuttin now on a low carb with If and having a cheat meal twice a week to get ready for my first bb show thought i would try my hand at it, and I'm still improving just keep reps low ish and then I do drop sets on everything. Good luck with the cut mate


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## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

Harrison21 said:


> *day 13 of Letro @ 2.5mg per day.*
> 
> The lump has shrunk even more and feels less hard all around, the only problem thats still there is the puffyness... this must be prolacting or just bodyfat, this prami needs to hurry up


Have you got the prami yet? Keep us upto date on how it effects the puffyness...


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Day 15 I think of Letro @ 2.5mg

Getting quite ****ed off now but going to last it out, so far side effects are:

Acne on back and shoulders

Aches all over, wrists, shoulders, elbows, knees.

No sex drive whatsoever

Starting to feel like old woman haha, hopefully my gyno will be gone in the next 2 weeks, if not I'm ****ed.


----------



## mojo-jojo (Jul 8, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Day 15 I think of Letro @ 2.5mg
> 
> Getting quite ****ed off now but going to last it out, so far side effects are:
> 
> ...


Ride it out mate, be good to see the outcome


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

mojo-jojo said:


> Ride it out mate, be good to see the outcome


Gunna give it 2 more week so around 30 days in total and If I aren't happy I'll just have to put up with a little lump.


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## Ricky12345 (Jun 13, 2012)

squirt said:


> I weigh in at the mo at 74kg squat is 225kg deadlift 245kg bench 145kg


Fuk some good lifts there mate at that weight


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## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

Have you got the prami yet? I'm interested to see if it gets rid of the puffiness ....


----------



## squirt (Mar 22, 2012)

Ricky12345 said:


> Fuk some good lifts there mate at that weight


Thanks there still not the best around its surprising how much better lifts I've seen lads do in comps but makes me feel get in the gym with the gym rats but pretty average at comps lol


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Around day 18 of Letro at 2.5mg Every day

My gyno has shrunk to the size of a small pea, this is good news! my nipple sometimes still looks puffy, think it will carry on looking puffy until I loose my bodyfat. Will run Prami when it eventually comes.


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## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

Let us know if the prami has any effect on the puffiness mate.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

waghorn said:


> Let us know if the prami has any effect on the puffiness mate.


Will do mate, I'm not sure if its just fat or prolacting as my nipple hasn't lactated and I'm not gunna squeeze them to find out don't want to aggrovate the lump.


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## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

Sounds identical to mine mate, apart from I don't have a lump, just puffiness


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Jon.B said:


> Get enough letro to run for a fair few weeks and it will go. I have just reversed a fair size lump in 12 weeks that was about 1 year old and fairly hard to touch. Sex drive ain't even that bad when cruising on a low dose of test


Jon, when you had yours did the lump make your chest look slightly pointy/puffy as if there was something behind the nipple? ive been on a month tomorrow, started at 0.625 for 1 week then 2.5 for 3 weeks. Im guessing UP is legit stuff?


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

waghorn said:


> Have you got the prami yet? Keep us upto date on how it effects the puffyness...


Waghorn, definately keep us updated mate. I have the puffiness aswell. I feel letro is changing the lump but the puffyness remains. 4 months after my cycle I had my bloods checked and they were all within normal rage including prolactin. So I am wondering even if my prolactin levels are normal could this still be a result of maybe having high prolactin before? Hope that makes sense :confused1:

Also I think puffy nipples is still gynecomastia. This diagram makes sense to me;

Normal Chest:










Puffy Nipple Gynecomastia:










Also maybe because of the increased estrogen binding, we have had an increase in fat storage alongside this in our chest area. Where as our lumps might be small to others, the fat or breast tissue has developed more. Resulting in puffy nipples.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

*day 21 of Letro @ 2.5mg*

Feel over the moon, haven't checked my nipple all day till now and I can say its shrunk by 80%, theres a tiny bit of a lump left which I'm positive will be gone in the next week or two!


----------



## waghorn (Apr 14, 2013)

How's the puffiness? Great news btw!


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

waghorn said:


> How's the puffiness? Great news btw!


Puffyness is still there not as bad though, I'm hoping/guessing its just high bf


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Puffyness is still there not as bad though, I'm hoping/guessing its just high bf


Thats good news pal. Any chance you can take another photo for us all to see so we can compare with the first pic you had taken? The amount of threads that people start on here and dont update at the end drive me crackers! Good to see you are keeping the thread alive tho


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> Thats good news pal. Any chance you can take another photo for us all to see so we can compare with the first pic you had taken? The amount of threads that people start on here and dont update at the end drive me crackers! Good to see you are keeping the thread alive tho


3 weeks ago



Now



Heres the picture of my nipple you requested lol


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## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Jesus mate thats a massive difference! Does your chest look more flabby, like pointy, puffy when you slouch forward? god this sounds so **** on here hahah 

Sent you a pm by the way.



Harrison21 said:


> 3 weeks ago
> 
> View attachment 123710
> 
> ...


----------



## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> 3 weeks ago
> 
> View attachment 123710
> 
> ...


Thats awsome pal and has inspired me to stick with the letro when i tried to get rid of it in the future, had to come of because it ruined me but like i say your progress will be enough to keep me at it now.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

BettySwallocks said:


> Thats awsome pal and has inspired me to stick with the letro when i tried to get rid of it in the future, had to come of because it ruined me but like i say your progress will be enough to keep me at it now.


Its nasty stuff, no gains in the gym at all, did shoulders last night and I was acheing like mad... the joint aches and sex drive and acne is very ****!

But its got to be done, I'm going to stay on for another week then taper down I think, I just need to cut now to get rid of bodyfat on my chest.


----------



## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Harrison21 said:


> Its nasty stuff, no gains in the gym at all, did shoulders last night and I was acheing like mad... the joint aches and sex drive and acne is very ****!
> 
> But its got to be done, I'm going to stay on for another week then taper down I think, I just need to cut now to get rid of bodyfat on my chest.


Sec drive was the only side I had really. Feel sorry for you. I've noticed that now i've treated the lump the fatty tissue is also an issue! Diet time soon!


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

RowRow said:


> Sec drive was the only side I had really. Feel sorry for you. I've noticed that now i've treated the lump the fatty tissue is also an issue! Diet time soon!


Im wondering though if that is fatty tissue or actual breast tissue. Kinda worrying as i dont think we can get rid if it is breast tissue other than under the knife? I hope im wrong


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

RowRow said:


> Sec drive was the only side I had really. Feel sorry for you. I've noticed that now i've treated the lump the fatty tissue is also an issue! Diet time soon!


Yeah alot of people say getting to 9-10% bf is the only way to get rid of the fat/puffyness, tapering off letro now can't stand it anymore, not fair on the girlfriend either.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> Im wondering though if that is fatty tissue or actual breast tissue. Kinda worrying as i dont think we can get rid if it is breast tissue other than under the knife? I hope im wrong


what %bf are you?


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Does anyone know if taking proviron will help me sex drive whilst on tapering off letro


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

im 13% mate


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> im 13% mate


From what I've been recommended try drop to atleast 10% and you may see a difference, tapering off Letro now and the lumps still getting smaller, be glad to get off this stuff though been a rocky 24 days


----------



## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> From what I've been recommended try drop to atleast 10% and you may see a difference, tapering off Letro now and the lumps still getting smaller, be glad to get off this stuff though been a rocky 24 days


Good to see your getting it under control mate, not be long now if its improving, just remember don't stop until a week after they have completely gone


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Craigyboy said:


> Good to see your getting it under control mate, not be long now if its improving, just remember don't stop until a week after they have completely gone


Theres only one tiny lump in my left nipple now but its killing me off this stuff, might just taper off very slow and add a high dosage of aromasin in for 10 days to prevent rebound.


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> From what I've been recommended try drop to atleast 10% and you may see a difference, tapering off Letro now and the lumps still getting smaller, be glad to get off this stuff though been a rocky 24 days


I think im gonna opt for the surgery route mate. This letro aint doing jack for me.I remember being 15% body fat and my chest looked fine. I can feel the rubbery like gland underneath my nipple. Ah well Poland here I come 

Good to see yours is reducing though mate. Keep it up if you can!


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> I think im gonna opt for the surgery route mate. This letro aint doing jack for me.I remember being 15% body fat and my chest looked fine. I can feel the rubbery like gland underneath my nipple. Ah well Poland here I come
> 
> Good to see yours is reducing though mate. Keep it up if you can!


Suppose its only £1,400 for surgery, how long have you been on letro now?


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> Suppose its only £1,400 for surgery, how long have you been on letro now?


Suprisingly today I am sure it has reduced a little. Ive been getting like an ache either side of my chest which is wierd to explain. Maybe this is me wishful thinking but we will see.

Just looking through my calendar, ive been on letro 0.625mg per day from the 8th until the 16th of May. I then started 2.5mg on the 17th per day up to today so the 12th of this month will make it 5 weeks in total.

Hows things with you?


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

WhizzKid said:


> Suprisingly today I am sure it has reduced a little. Ive been getting like an ache either side of my chest which is wierd to explain. Maybe this is me wishful thinking but we will see.
> 
> Just looking through my calendar, ive been on letro 0.625mg per day from the 8th until the 16th of May. I then started 2.5mg on the 17th per day up to today so the 12th of this month will make it 5 weeks in total.
> 
> Hows things with you?


Must be around *28th day on letro @ 2.5mg *

Lump has more or less completely gone... my right nipple which had no gyno is completely fine and not puffy

My left nipple which had the gyno still has a puffy nipple, I think my only option is to cut and get a tighter chest.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

*31st Day on letro @ 2.5mg*

The lump is tiny now but keeps moving places and shape, I placed an order from United Pharmacies around over 3 weeks ago and my order still isn't here.... Don't know what to do, having to use nolvadex to taper off of letro instead of the Aromasin I ordered.


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Harrison21 said:


> *31st Day on letro @ 2.5mg*
> 
> The lump is tiny now but keeps moving places and shape, I placed an order from United Pharmacies around over 3 weeks ago and my order still isn't here.... Don't know what to do, having to use nolvadex to taper off of letro instead of the Aromasin I ordered.


I messaged them the other day about raloxifene and aromasin and they said they didnt have any in stock. Mines still pretty much the same, good news yours is changing though. Any change in the puffiness?


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Harrison21 said:


> *31st Day on letro @ 2.5mg*
> 
> The lump is tiny now but keeps moving places and shape, I placed an order from United Pharmacies around over 3 weeks ago and my order still isn't here.... Don't know what to do,* having to use nolvadex to taper off of letro instead of the Aromasin I ordered*.


That is a much better option anyway.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Mars said:


> That is a much better option anyway.


Just wasted money on buying aromasin and prami, my order from UP is already week late I hope they refund me... I'll stay on Nolvadex @ 20mg for 10 days.


----------



## WhizzKid (Oct 12, 2012)

Mars said:


> That is a much better option anyway.


Hi Mars, I am guessing you prefer nolva to letro? I too am thinking about coming off the letro now, it isnt making much difference :/


----------



## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Craigyboy said:


> Yes ditch every thing except the letro
> 
> It took me 21 days for the lump to go, if you get sides from the letro just grind it out mate it will shift it as you have prob caught it early enough
> 
> *Don't taper the letro as it does it naturally due to the half life effect*


You sure about that???? Ive seen LOTS of people complain about gyno returning straight away and as bad as before because they just dropped the letro and didnt taper and didnt add anything else to move onto.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

Good news, UP is refunding my order but just today I squeezed my nipple to see if I have prolacting and the tiniest bit of water came out, going to order some prami/caber by itself from Aururapharm I think.

Currently been off Letro 3 days and on nolva @ 20mg but still acheing like mad.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Do not play with your nipples, that can promote prolactin.

I doubt it has anything to do with prolactin unless you are playing with them.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Do not play with your nipples, that can promote prolactin.
> 
> I doubt it has anything to do with prolactin unless you are playing with them.


Will do, I only squeezed them once to see if it was prolacting or not.

Going to use caber on my cutting cycle just incase, I will be taking 1mg of adex every 3 days will this prevent prolacting also?


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I doubt it is prolactin, that would suggest something else is the problem.


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

hackskii said:


> I doubt it is prolactin, that would suggest something else is the problem.


My gyno lump in my left nipple seems to shrink and change shape all the time? sometimes gets bigger


----------



## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

So I was on letro @ 2.5mg for around 35 days... been off now for 4 days, my sex drive is still rubbish... Should I buy some proviron to run to help my libido?


----------



## Guest (Jun 20, 2013)

Harrison21 said:


> My gyno lump in my left nipple seems to shrink and change shape all the time? sometimes gets bigger


Mine (from my teens, not aas) is almost none existent when I'm cold, the warmer I get the puffier mt nipples become and the more noticeable my gyno becomes.


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## Logman (Nov 27, 2012)

Cant ask that question.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Logman, you cant ask that question on the board, no source requests.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

So its been around 2 months off Letro ect... I have started a new job which takes my mind off my gyno which was still quite bad, I've been working for a month and haven't touched my nipple once then I looked and felt it today and the lump has nearly gone, I also have enough money for surgery but don't think I need it now.

Going to give it another month or two and see if it carrys on decreasing by itself, if so then I will be starting my cycle which I bought months ago!

Just a tip for anyone with gyno - DON'T TOUCH IT, I was on letro for 5 weeks and somehow been on nothing and not touching my nipples has done a much better job.


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## dave-taff89 (Jul 14, 2013)

@Harrison21 I've seen a picture of your gyno on page 1, how did that occur? was it quick or over a period of time.? what cycle was you on for that to happen.


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## Harrison21 (Dec 24, 2012)

dave-taff89 said:


> @Harrison21 I've seen a picture of your gyno on page 1, how did that occur? was it quick or over a period of time.? what cycle was you on for that to happen.


Was on test enanthate and tren acetate, basically the Adex I bought was fake and it happened in under a week... looks nearly completely fine now though.

If I loose some bodyfat I wouldn't even think it was there.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

A lot of peoples gyno shrinks back off cycle, 'if' your thinking of doing another cycle i would recommend nolva throughout as well as an adex dosage.. if you don't get the adex dosage quite right you could get gyno very quickly again if you have a small lump already there.


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## dave-taff89 (Jul 14, 2013)

@ Harrison21 Yeah next time I will be buying pharma grade for AI and PCT. I got UGL stuff..........this post has deffo brought up the issue of UGL brands (not saying that they are bad) but can be under-dosed etc. and paranoia lol


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

Dead lee said:


> A lot of peoples gyno shrinks back off cycle, 'if' your thinking of doing another cycle i would recommend nolva throughout as well as an adex dosage.. if you don't get the adex dosage quite right you could get gyno very quickly again if you have a small lump already there.


Is there any truth in the idea that adex and nolva don't work well together? I can't find any papers to back it up. I've a tiny lump left over from a previous cock up ( not sore and not growing) and have just started 500 test E and 500 deca ( considering dbol as well).

Currently running 1/2adex EOD can I run nolva alongside it for the duration??


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

MrM said:


> Is there any truth in the idea that adex and nolva don't work well together? I can't find any papers to back it up. I've a tiny lump left over from a previous cock up ( not sore and not growing) and have just started 500 test E and 500 deca ( considering dbol as well).
> 
> Currently running 1/2adex EOD can I run nolva alongside it for the duration??


Yes i run the two together sometimes, 20mg of nolva and a dose of adex.. works very well, nolva protects the nipple area and adex keeps estrogen in check.

Its good to avoid slip ups on adex dosage when you have a small lump already.

I believe there is some reduction in effectiveness using both together but 10- 20mg of nolva a day along with adex would be ample for gyno protection

Dosages still need to be played around with to get it right.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yes, nolva at just 20mg can lower blood plasma levels of letro by up to 38%, and adex by something in the neighborhood is 28%.


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