# A good pump or lifting heavy weights



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

What do you guys think is more important to building big muscles , a good pump as in reps and feeling a pump and burn or lifting heavy weights ?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2013)

Heavy weights to fail 6+, then dropset.


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## Kloob (Jun 3, 2012)

The 'pump' is from blood flooding to your muscle as its being worked I'm sure.

Anyway, to answer your q. I feel working my muscles to failure while lifting heavy and pushing myself is best for building muscle. But everyone is different.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Heavy weights to build a base then hypertrophy .


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

moderate-heavy weight to failure, i dont aim for a certain number of reps


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Personally i think that if you constantly lift heavier weights your body being very clever must adapt for futureheavy lifts and thus grow your muscles .


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

Same as most posts really, 3-4 sets max effort and weight 6-10 reps then a dropset of about 15 reps


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## constantbulk (Dec 27, 2010)

heavy lifts work better for me, max effort in the 4 to 6 rep range


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

One can get a good pump from running but it won't build big legs unless genetically gifted.

Lift heavy weights but varied rep ranges.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

big vin said:


> What do you guys think is more important to building big muscles , a good pump as in reps and feeling a pump and burn or lifting heavy weights ?


Basically:

Heavy loads/low reps = hypertrophy + strength adaptations

Ligher loads/higher reps (to failure) = hypertrophy + endurance adaptations

Combo of both of the above = hypertrophy + strength adaptations + endurance adaptations

Hypertrophic gains are generally equal between all groups (a bit of individual difference will make one form of training slightly better for some), provided each training methodology is performed consistently, correctly and progressively with the correct nutritional support.

The pump itself is fairly meaningless, but obviously a side effect of the higher volume training only.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Basically:
> 
> Heavy loads/low reps = hypertrophy + strength adaptations
> 
> ...


You need to start coaching on here dude


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## bigtoe900 (Jul 26, 2012)

heavy and low reps to build, light and high reps to cut


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

dtlv said:


> Basically:
> 
> Heavy loads/low reps = hypertrophy + strength adaptations
> 
> ...


What do you think about the blood flow (pump) stretching the muscle facia and causing a gh release? Any truth in that? I can't remember where I've heard this.


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

bigtoe900 said:


> heavy and low reps to build, light and high reps to cut


I don't agree. Heavy weights are still needed to maintain muscle when cutting. A mix of high and low reps would be more beneficial IMO.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

PaulB said:


> What do you think about the blood flow (pump) stretching the muscle facia and causing a gh release? Any truth in that? I can't remember where I've heard this.


Am not sure I have a fixed opinion on it tbh - I understand the theory, but not sure I've either seen enough people where that kind of training has made a very obvious visual difference, or studies that strongly support the theory. Never tried it to the extremes recommended myself.

One thing I will say though is that short term training induced increases in the likes of GH and test are false goals to chase - there are now multiple studies that show these short duration changes do not contribute to gains under normal circumstances - is more that they simply help the body find energy until it is fed pwo (suppress these hormonal responses to a workout with drugs or immediate nutrition and growth is not slowed and sometimes even greater). More important within normal values appears to be what happens to total baseline test and Gh concentrations over 24 hours than seeking to protect those little pwo increases.


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## aj90 (Jul 30, 2011)

if i get a nice pump during work out then usually means im proper sore next day, lifting heavier and less reps gives me less pump and less soreness next day


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

both. havent grown better since doing 3x5 one day for upper and 3x10 the next upper day ( all in the same week upper lower split)


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

bigtoe900 said:


> heavy and low reps to build, light and high reps to cut


The 80's called, they want their bro science back:rolleye:


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## bigtoe900 (Jul 26, 2012)

PaulB said:


> I don't agree. Heavy weights are still needed to maintain muscle when cutting. A mix of high and low reps would be more beneficial IMO.


 Agree with you there, was using this as a generalisation rather than a rule.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I train for pump sometimes just for ego and to fill up in the gym for 5 mins

Mostly i vary rep ranges though between 1-20 lol


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

harryalmighty said:


> both. havent grown better since doing 3x5 one day for upper and 3x10 the next upper day ( all in the same week upper lower split)


I'm thinking of doing the same soon. I bit like PHAT, but with less volume. I'm just going to concentrate on the compounds for 8 weeks. Bench, deads, squats, OHP, Rows, Chins. 2 days low reps, 2 days high reps in the same week.

I also like the look of @Sambuca routine at the moment. He's doing one week low, one week medium, one week high.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I get a pretty good pump from low reps tbh.

Also, if you have an element of strength training in your routine it will enable 8-10 reps with much heavier weights.


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

[quote=dtlv;4100823

The pump itself is fairly meaningless, but obviously a side effect of the higher volume training only.


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## k3z (Oct 17, 2007)

dtlv said:


> Am not sure I have a fixed opinion on it tbh - I understand the theory, but not sure I've either seen enough people where that kind of training has made a very obvious visual difference, or studies that strongly support the theory. Never tried it to the extremes recommended myself.
> 
> One thing I will say though is that short term training induced increases in the likes of GH and test are false goals to chase - there are now multiple studies that show these short duration changes do not contribute to gains under normal circumstances - is more that they simply help the body find energy until it is fed pwo (suppress these hormonal responses to a workout with drugs or *immediate nutrition* and growth is not slowed and sometimes even greater). More important within normal values appears to be what happens to total baseline test and Gh concentrations over 24 hours than seeking to protect those little pwo increases.


Does this mean to say you should wait a period before consuming anything post workout to maximise hormonal effects?

What kind of period are we looking at?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

k3z said:


> Does this mean to say you should wait a period before consuming anything post workout to maximise hormonal effects?
> 
> What kind of period are we looking at?


No, the opposite - the increases in GH and test (and cortisol) that occur with exercise only appear to have one physiological purpose, and that is to liberate fat from fat cells and glucogenic amino acids from muscle tissue to fuel the liver as a way to keep your energy levels up. Elevations in those hormones pwo do not contribute to anabolic signalling or growth (that is taken care of by different mechanisms at a cellular level like mTOR activation and the activation of various protein kinases independently of the hormonal state) - you are best off feeding as soon as is convenient since ultimately food is the most anabolic thing you take in.

There are several studies looking at this all with the same outcome -



> *Elevations in ostensibly anabolic hormones with resistance exercise enhance neither training-induced muscle hypertrophy nor strength of the elbow flexors*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


Is important for the natural to try to increase his baseline levels of free testosterone and GH because that will affect long term growth, but the one time not to worry about it is pwo - pwo deliberate restraint from eating just to keep these hormones higher for a little longer does not appear to serve any useful purpose whatsoever.

That said, it's unlikely to do an appreciable amount of damage to gains if you wait 30-60 mins, but don't let anyone tell you it is beneficial to wait.


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## k3z (Oct 17, 2007)

dtlv said:


> No, the opposite - the increases in GH and test (and cortisol) that occur with exercise only appear to have one physiological purpose, and that is to liberate fat from fat cells and glucogenic amino acids from muscle tissue to fuel the liver as a way to keep your energy levels up. Elevations in those hormones pwo do not contribute to anabolic signalling or growth (that is taken care of by different mechanisms at a cellular level like mTOR activation and the activation of various protein kinases independently of the hormonal state) - you are best off feeding as soon as is convenient since ultimately food is the most anabolic thing you take in.
> 
> There are several studies looking at this all with the same outcome -
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. Perhaps waiting 30-60 mins would both maximize fat burning effects of the growth hormone spike whilst maintaining the anabolic state induced with the feed


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

k3z said:


> Thanks for this. Perhaps waiting 30-60 mins would both maximize fat burning effects of the growth hormone spike whilst maintaining the anabolic state induced with the feed


Well yes, for cutting there is an arguable case for waiting to burn a little extra fat. Am not sure how much difference it makes when you take 24hr calorie balance into consideration, but can see a case for it there in theory.

No point waiting 30-60mins on a bulk or when looking to gain though.


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

i have gone from heavy sets to lifting 10x10. After the 10x10 my muscles ache like fvck for days afterwards.


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Im coming back from a shoulder injury and have been regaining muscle . A lot of this is muscle memory but at times Ive felt like a beginner . 10kg incline press is no joke

For me its been simple basic exercises in the 4-6 rep range that have helped me get it back for upper body .

For lower I prefer 12+ reps dur to the possibility of injury .

In the short term I know this works but know I will need to move to higher reps(upper body) soon to allow the joints a break and prevent tendinitus in my elbows .

Im not saying i use periodisation but I will ease off for a while to then push ahead and gain more -in the long term

The bottom line for me is that if you love to train " x way " then go with that . Enjoyment leads to consistency and thet leads to gains . Loving what you are doing and itching to to to the gym are so inportant .

Im training legs tomorrow with a powerlifter in his 20's . Ive been training longer than hes beeen alive .

Why ?

Because hes better than me on legs and you need to aim for something better and train with those who make you raise your standards .

In a nut shell I would say the rep range is only a small part of it . Challenging yourself and loving your training inevitably lead to improvement that changing to a trainig style you dont like cannot give !


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

TommyFire said:


> i have gone from heavy sets to lifting 10x10. After the 10x10 my muscles ache like fvck for days afterwards.


Killer aint it lol

I have doms in my legs for easy 5 days when doing 10x10. Im doing 10x6 at the moment. 60 seconds between each set except on Squats and Deads, 90 seconds for them.


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

PaulB said:


> Killer aint it lol
> 
> I have doms in my legs for easy 5 days when doing 10x10. Im doing 10x6 at the moment. 60 seconds between each set except on Squats and Deads, 90 seconds for them.


Mate i did legs 4 days ago and my hamstrings are still in bits!


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Gym-pig said:


> Im coming back from a shoulder injury and have been regaining muscle . A lot of this is muscle memory but at times Ive felt like a beginner . 10kg incline press is no joke
> 
> For me its been simple basic exercises in the 4-6 rep range that have helped me get it back for upper body .
> 
> ...


Coffin dodger... :whistling:


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

PaulB said:


> I'm thinking of doing the same soon. I bit like PHAT, but with less volume. I'm just going to concentrate on the compounds for 8 weeks. Bench, deads, squats, OHP, Rows, Chins. 2 days low reps, 2 days high reps in the same week.
> 
> I also like the look of @Sambuca routine at the moment. He's doing one week low, one week medium, one week high.


way i look at it is frequency over volume for sure.

so my upper days normal consist of 6 working sets for chest, 6 working sets for back, 3 working sets for shoulders - spread over 2 exercises for back, 2 for chest and one for shoulders.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

The pump is absolutely useless for most people.

Neural efficiency is what most beginners (less than 5 years training) need the most to grow. So heavy weights, good form and plenty of good food


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

golfgttdi said:


> Whats your opinion of the pump filing the muscle with fresh blood and nutrients from pwo meal? already giving recovery a headstart?
> 
> Id like to believe its true as I love a pump but if its realy a meaningless side effect i can ease off and stick to low/moderate reps more often maybe?.
> 
> Know everyones different but even with the strictest mind muscle connection possible, if i dont go over 10 reps i never seem to get a proper pump???


The main reason that the body gets a pump and burning sensation with high rep training is to do with lactic acid build up. Higher rep training anaerobic training causes lactic acid to be produced as a by product of breaking down muscle glycogen. Lactic acid increases slowly, and as it does the body is also able to use some of it for fuel to spare the glcyogen in the muscule - but it cannot use lactate as fuel as fast as it is produced, so over the course of a set it builds up and builds up. The burning sensation is where the local area gets lower in pH due to the acid accumulation and this affects nerve signalling - the loss of strength with a pump is also down to the acidity interfereing with the ability of nerve signals to fire the muscle fibers properly. The increased bloodflow that is associated with the pump is an accompanying change in the width of blood vessels where the body is trying to clear the excess lactic acid to restore normal pH in the muscle so it can perform better.

This is different to improved blood flow of nutrients to the muscles because its more about improved blood flow removing lactic acid and carbon dioxide buildup away from the muscles - is moving stuff away from the muscle rather than bringing nutrients to it.

Blood flow and supply of nutrients to the muscles is not related to high reps or a pump, it's related to muscle sensitivity pwo to aminos and glucose and to insulin. Protein and carbs each increase insulin levels enough to transport themselves into the muscle, and remember in the pwo state the muscle is more sensitive to aminos and glucose anyway because the mechanical action of exercise alone activates the enzymes and glucose transporters inside the cell that aid nutrient transport inwards - and both high and low rep training do this equally. The only way this affects the pump is that insulin widens blood vessels so can increase the blood flow trying to flush lactic acid away from the muscle when it builds up.

Basically simply training hard and then eating/drinking protein and carbs is all you need to do to supply the nutrients.

What is important to note though is what happens when you train fasted. In the fasted state where insulin levels are no higher than baseline, exercise is more catabolic to muscle than when training in the fed state. In this case the body becomes catabolic as soon as you start exercising because there are not enough spare glucose or amino acids in the blood plasma to prevent/spare glycogen, intramuscular fat and amino acids being taken from muscle for use as fuel. If however you have eaten in the hours before the workout, even if your insulin levels aren't spiked or suppressing fat burning they will still be slightly higher than normal baseline, and high enough to push a few extra amino acids and glucose molecules into the muscle cells and prevent a bit of catabolism.

This is the value of not training totally fasted, or of having a pre workout supplement of aminos and or carbs. In truth people fear too muc about the amount of muscle you will lose from training fasted - roughly 4-7% of the kcals burned in the entire session will come from muscle protein, and so at best a couple of grams of muscle you spare with a pre workout feed. What is also uncertain is whether this catabolism can be made up for afterwards by a slightly higher state of pwo anabolism - some researchers believe that even if you do train fasted and lose a bit of extra muscle during the session, within 24 hours the body will have compensated to make up for it as if you hadn't trained fasted anyway, just by normal nutrition.

My view though is that training with some fuel in the tank generally leads you to feel you can push harder, and it doesn't hurt in any way, especially if the pre workout feed is mostly full of good quality proteins and amino acids. If your main priority is fat burning over muscle retention, then apart from being a useless bodybuilder with messed up priorities :tongue: :lol: , you might however not want to bother with a pre feed and just do it fasted - but most people, even those on a cut, are still looking to hold as much muscle as possible, so the best strategy seems the one most likely to do that.... but it's not really about the pump.

The main diret advantage of continually training through a blistering pump is that you slowly adapt to get more efficient at recycling the lactic acid (through increasing levels of the enzymes responsible for recycling it), and develop a higher threshold before the pump kicks in and a greater tolerance to the pain you get from it. Training through a pump many times over also improves cv fitness considerably, especially if you work to a pump when training big muscles like your legs and back.

I find 20-25 rep sets of squats to failure the most physically demanding way to exercise, and by far the most painful - a 5 rep max set requires supreme effort on the last 2-3 reps, but I don't find it as difficult psychologically as struggling through a searing pump for the last ten reps of a 25 rep set of squats. Have puked a few times doing that when not fit enough to handle it at the time.

Definitely nothign wrong with a pump, and it is psychologically rewarding.


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

dtlv said:


> The main reason that the body gets a pump and burning sensation with high rep training is to do with lactic acid build up. Higher rep training anaerobic training causes lactic acid to be produced as a by product of breaking down muscle glycogen. Lactic acid increases slowly, and as it does the body is also able to use some of it for fuel to spare the glcyogen in the muscule - but it cannot use lactate as fuel as fast as it is produced, so over the course of a set it builds up and builds up. The burning sensation is where the local area gets lower in pH due to the acid accumulation and this affects nerve signalling - the loss of strength with a pump is also down to the acidity interfereing with the ability of nerve signals to fire the muscle fibers properly. The increased bloodflow that is associated with the pump is an accompanying change in the width of blood vessels where the body is trying to clear the excess lactic acid to restore normal pH in the muscle so it can perform better.
> 
> This is different to improved blood flow of nutrients to the muscles because its more about improved blood flow removing lactic acid and carbon dioxide buildup away from the muscles - is moving stuff away from the muscle rather than bringing nutrients to it.
> 
> ...


One of the most detailed and helpful replies ive ever recieved on here ;-)

Super info pal, thanks alot.

I know your joke bout useless bbers not prioritising muscle mass over fast loss hold bit of truth but do you reckon a simple isolate shake before training would be more than enough to compensate for no real pre workout meal while cutting?

(were talking 120 cals and 22g isolate. 2g carbs.) I know you say its more than likely compensated for with proper recovery and nutrition anyway, but as you pointed out the mental side of knowing youve something in the tank might help power better workout?

Again cheers for the detailed reply above :beer:


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