# Training plan



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Hey everyone.

I'm steve and next week i plan to start a completely new weight gain and muscle growth plan. So far i have only posted on the supplements forum. There i also posted my diet plan. You see the problem is i just need to come up with a good training plan and i feel i'm almost ready to go. I'm 18, 6foot 2.3 and weigh 11 stone 3. I've been told just to train 3 times a week and not to overdo it but also not to underdo it. Does the following seem ok?

Day 1: Chest. biceps

Day 2: Rest

Day 3: Legs and shoulders

Day 4: Rest

Day 5: Back, triceps

Day 6: Rest

Day 7: Rest

If there is something missing or something doesn't seem right please say. Could someone also please say what the best excersises are for each body part to grow serious muscle as this is my objective. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi Steve,

Well done for starting mate. May I recommend a good way of getting going? Apparently most of the greatest bodybuilders, as well as nobodies like me, started off with a full body routine. Kinda says it all really.

In your routine you have the big exercises, not lots of curls, tricep extensions, pec-dec work or other stuff. Those are for advanced bodybuilders just needing to balance out already massive physiques. Do not think in terms of muscle groups or body parts, just think of getting the most bang for the sweat buck in your (short) routine. Balance is for later.

To start with you want:

deadlifts and/or squats

bench presses or dips (if you can do bodyweight dips)

pulldowns or rows (or chinups if you can do them)

overhead presses (standing, seated, dumbbells ...)

Deadlifts and squats fire up the bodybuilding hormones throughout your body. You must do these in order to really grow. Do not dodge them as so many do. Once you've learned to do them properly (wayyyy important!) go for maybe a single set of 10-12 or break that into 2 sets.

The others. In your early days, just about any arrangement will work. but go for maybe 2 sets of 6-8. And learn proper form.

Make all reps in good form, finish all sets with a bit of a struggle but in good form. Adjust the weight upwards in tiny increments (really. As embarrassingly tiny as you can arrange) every session or so.

Eat like a pig. Sleep plenty. And the muscle will just grow.

After three to six months of all this you'll probably be ready to move on. In that time you'll probably have put on quite a bit of muscle, and if you're smart you've been reading something like Rippetoe's Starting Strength or McRoberts' Beyond Brawn to help you understand what you're doing and where you're going next. Anyway, when you've got there and full-body routines three times a week are beginning to wear you down physically, time for stage two. You will no longer be a beginner.

There ya go. Not complicated. Yet. Read the books, do the work. Temptations will arise to chop and change once you've settled your routine. Stick with it at all costs mate. It's tried and tested many times over. You do not know better. Yet.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks for this mate. I really appreciate it. So shall i do this routine 3 times a week for 3-6 months?

deadlifts and/or squats

bench presses or dips (if you can do bodyweight dips)

pulldowns or rows (or chinups if you can do them)

overhead presses (standing, seated, dumbbells ...)

Thanks


----------



## Guest (Jan 30, 2007)

Hi Steve

Good advice from Xris. I currently train 3 days a week excatly the way you descride in your initial post which works well. I have been training fro 15 years and competed but in the beginning all i did was basic full routines at 2 days a week raisng to three after two months with deadlifts, squat, overhead shoulder press, bench press, calve raise, curls and close grip bench press.

In that time i concentrated on good form and on increasing my weights on every workout.

Eat lots of good food, drink plenty of water and take a good multivitamin supplement.

You will grow like a horse and after a few months your growth will slow down and then its time to change.

Good luck.

Beef it!


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Rickeh said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> Good advice from Xris. I currently train 3 days a week excatly the way you descride in your initial post which works well. I have been training fro 15 years and competed but in the beginning all i did was basic full routines at 2 days a week raisng to three after two months with deadlifts, squat, overhead shoulder press, bench press, calve raise, curls and close grip bench press.
> 
> ...


Thanks Rickeh. Could you tell me a good 'multivitamin supplement'. I'v got about a months supply of maximuscle's promax and progain. I could also get Protrient for multivitamins http://www.maximuscle.com/protrient or zma http://www.maximuscle.com/Content.asp?ProdCatID=153

After this runs out though i'm getting extreme's creatine and Build & Recover as i have been advised not to get maximuscles. Does this sound ok?


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi Steve,

Pleasure if I can help. Notice that you had put up a routine more suited to someone like Rickeh, who's been doing this for years. You don't need to go there just yet, but Rickeh's told you what to look for to tell you when it's time to change.



> deadlifts and/or squats
> 
> bench presses or dips (if you can do bodyweight dips)
> 
> ...


Yes, you could treat this as a sample routine, or you could do something like this:

DAY ONE

squat

bench press

pulldown (palms facing you -- better than curls)

overhead press

DAY TWO

deadlift

dip

row

overhead press

DAY THREE

as day one

The press -- ie standing, raise weight above head -- is a great overall exercise and teaches you to generate force from the ground up, so if you can possibly use it, do.

With these exercises you will lay a foundation of solid strength and muscle. Tweaking the routine can come later. There's no rush. Rush->corner-cutting->injury->delay

I've less to say about supplements, except to agree with Rickeh. remember that supplements are just that. They are supplements, not substitutes, and eating lots, resting lots and working really hard in the gym are what count. One multivitamin for now is good. Soon you'll need to investigate protein shakes etc, but for goodness' sake don't get bogged down in chemistry lessons from those who only make it more complicated than it is.

Go for it mate.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Pm me if you want a free Ebook of beyond brawn


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks xris so does this weekly plan look good for a few months?

mon squat, bench press, pulldown, overhead press

tue rest

wed deadlift, dip, row, overhead press

thurs rest

fri squat, bench press, pulldown, overhead press

sat rest

sun rest

You say row for day 2 to row. Is this just on a standard rowing machine as seen in gyms and how long should i do? I thought this stops you putting weight on and should just be used as a warmup? Also should i be doing 3 sets of around 10 reps to failure for all these?


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Rows. Ah, no. Let me clarify. The row is a compound upper back exercise targeting mostly the latissimus dorsi and the trapezius muscles, with some involvement of lower back, biceps, deltoids and lower arm muscles. It's the weight training exercise I mean, not the aerobic exercise. Consult a weights instructor to show you the sort of thing and get a book like DeLavier's Strength Training Anatomy, which shows you loads of exercises with detailed pictures of whichever muscles are involved. Major recommend.

You quite rightly see the rowing machines that you mentioned as good for warmups but not for resistance training. And of course you weren't going to do cardio work right next to your weight training, were you mate? 

Some people do recommend three sets of 8-10 for rows/chins/pullups/pulldowns, rather than the two I suggested. Try it. At your early stage it will do you no harm at all, and it will certainly give you a big thick V-shaped back. 

Take Cal up on his offer of the e-book. There's some good stuff there for later on.

And your weekly plan looks good. That will last you for months. When you've got so much weight on the exercises you can't seem to get any more on many of them, you'll be ready to change and you'll be seeing some remarkable growth in your physique.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Xris said:


> Rows. Ah, no. Let me clarify. The row is a compound upper back exercise targeting mostly the latissimus dorsi and the trapezius muscles, with some involvement of lower back, biceps, deltoids and lower arm muscles. It's the weight training exercise I mean, not the aerobic exercise. Consult a weights instructor to show you the sort of thing and get a book like DeLavier's Strength Training Anatomy, which shows you loads of exercises with detailed pictures of whichever muscles are involved. Major recommend.
> 
> You quite rightly see the rowing machines that you mentioned as good for warmups but not for resistance training. And of course you weren't going to do cardio work right next to your weight training, were you mate?
> 
> ...


I seem to be fine with everything except dip and row. I can't workout what these are? Could you show some pictures of these to help me. I searched for them on www.bodybuilding.com but loads came up.

thanks


----------



## architekt (Nov 21, 2006)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Bent+Over+Barbell+Row

got some pics there fella.


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice one Architekt  Da iawn.

And this one has the dip on it about halfway down.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks this is a big help. Between each set and between finishing one exercise and starting another, how long do you think i should rest for? thanks. Going to gym in about an hour


----------



## bodyworks (Oct 17, 2007)

just long enough to get your breath back so to speak. but remember, it ain't a cv workout so only do the next set when you feel ready.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

At the gym yesterday I did 2 sets of about 8 reps of squats. 3 sets of 10 reps ob bench press. 3 sets of 10 pulldown reps and 2 sets of 8 overhead press. I think I did the overhead press right Is it the picture below? And does it matter if your sat down or stood up and doing it with barbell or dumbells?

http://www.acefitness.org/images/exercises/overhead_press1.jpg

After the squats I was absolutely knackered and I couldn't keep my legs still as they were just shaking lol. Hopefully, as the weeks go on I will feel more energetic towards the end of the workout. Although it was my first time doing the routine so it was all a bit different. Also i'm really achey today. Should i have done some stretching?

thanks


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Yeah, that's a press with dumbbells. Standing is more of a whole body exercise, but any variation works.

First time out always hits harder. Wobbly legs mean you worked your legs properly. Well done you. 

Stretching after exercise can help reduce soreness, but every time you really push into new poundage territory you can expect some soreness some time later. It's not important. What's important is a little bit more weight on the bar next time. Go for it.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi everyone.

I've got a bit of a problem today. The top of my legs are aching something rotten. I'm finding it quite difficult to walk due to saturday's squats. Now, i'm not bothered about the aches or anything - no pain no gain. It's just that i'm supposed to be doing squats again today and there's no chance of me being able to do this. Does it sound alright if i do wednesdays workout today and todays on wednesday for this week?

How do you guys prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Thanks


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i certainly wouldnt train while sore.

as xris said -stretching helps alot.

are you doing a proper pre workout warmup and stretch and post workout cooldown and stretch?

hot bath may help.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

I do 5-10 mins on rowing machine before starting and a few stretches after my workout. What are the best stretches? ALso should i go on rowing machine again after my workout as a cooldown?

I'll go and have a hot bath and see what happens


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yeah try the rowing machine afterwards too

its hard to describe stretches but i suspect someone will have a link.

i have to stretch full body 2x every day cos of my back lol.

you shouldnt have as much soreness as you have,but squat soreness may last longer than either muscle groups cos they are a big one(+youre not just working your legs when you squat)


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks crazycal1. If someone does have a link with a few piccies it will be a big help.


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

I have a radical suggestion.

As long as you're sure that your soreness is about stiff muscles and not injury, then you can work through it. Inaction doesn't help muscles to recover.

Try this: a day or so before your next proper workout, do a light one: lots and lots of warmups (no stretches yet!), then bodyweight or lightweight many reps for the muscles concerned, just to work them. You're not going for strength gains here.

You should find that the stiffness eases off once the muscles, properly warmed through, are back in action. Then stretch out lightly, have the warm soak and ther rest you need, and see what the following day brings.

I've often surprised myself at how my muscles unstiffen if you give them stuff to do.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Xris said:


> I have a radical suggestion.
> 
> As long as you're sure that your soreness is about stiff muscles and not injury, then you can work through it. Inaction doesn't help muscles to recover.
> 
> ...


Thanks Xris, good advise that. For a few days after doing deadlift and row though my back feels really weak and i need to be careful of sudden movements because it feels like it could go and after squats i find it hard to walk down stairs. I do 10 mins on rowing machine before my workout and 5 mins after workout. What i need is some pics or links to stretches to stop this happening and when i should stretch (before and after or just after). Thanks and sorry if i'm being annoying!


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Hey Steve,

About stretches. Right after deadlifting, hang from dip bars or something similar for 10-20 seconds or so, just to 'uncompress' the spine. Stretching your lower back muscles is as easy and gentle as rolling up into a ball.

You're still getting lower back aggravation? Consider the possiblility that you're working your lower back a bit hard. Double check form and think about some options:

1) when deadlifting or squatting, ensure that you have your weight more onto the back half of the feet and so engage the quads more.

2) I have noticed in my own training that rows, deadlifts and any other back exercise all together is a bit too much for me. Maybe find another warmup besides the rowing machine, which can fatigue the lower back.

3) Remind me what you're doing with deadlifts, and consider just doing the one set of six or so in the week.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Xris said:


> Hey Steve,
> 
> About stretches. Right after deadlifting, hang from dip bars or something similar for 10-20 seconds or so, just to 'uncompress' the spine. Stretching your lower back muscles is as easy and gentle as rolling up into a ball.
> 
> ...


I've been doing 3 sets of 8-10 reps of deadlifts once a week. I do this with all my excercises. So do you reckon this is too much for deadlifts? Do you think this is too much for squats (i do twice a week) too if so should i perhaps cut squats down to 2 sets of 8-10 reps?

thanks xris


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Hey Steve,

If you're still getting lower back pain then definitely drop the deads to one set of about 8. Leave everything else as before and see if that does the trick. You'd be amazed how hard deadlifts work the body.

And do the other stuff I mentioned.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Xris said:


> Hey Steve,
> 
> If you're still getting lower back pain then definitely drop the deads to one set of about 8. Leave everything else as before and see if that does the trick. You'd be amazed how hard deadlifts work the body.
> 
> And do the other stuff I mentioned.


Thanks xris, i struggled abit doing 3 sets of squats and i only increased weight by 1 kg. I'll see how it goes, thanks again, BIG HELP!


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

I hope you're now sorting out your back, Steve. I just want to check on a couple of other things that have a bearing on recovery.

Firstly, sleep? Are you getting enough? Sleep, that is  You repair and build muscle overnight, not in the gym, and you absolutely must get your full ration of sleep.

Secondly, diet. Are you eating everything that doesn't run away first? Protein and carbs first thing, whole foods throughout the day, bit of protein last thing (no need for carbs at night), post-workout supplement of protein, dextrose (and possibly maltodextrin) in water, along with any other bits you feel you need -- immediately, like immediately after exercise.

Contrary to some opinion you don't need to go overboard on nutritional supplements. Guys get huge working out on prison slop, and you can do better than that. But eating, yes?

If you've already got this stuff down, excuse my telling granny how to suck eggs. ('Don't just suck 'em, granny, get 'em down yer neck! And some more!'  )


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

i'm getting about 8 hours sleep a night but i'm going to try and get this up to nine hours! I have two of either oats, cheeios cereal and wholegrain toast and also have a promax shake with water for breakfast. Pre workout i again have a promax shake with water (i now have a peanut butter ricecake too as i as starting to feel slightly hungry but this has sorted it out!) and for post workout i have a progain shake with water straight away. I do have more promax and progain that i thought i did but i will get the better stuff once this runs out to assist me! Looking in the mirror i think my shoulders have got slightly bigger (this could be my imagination though) and i also got weighed lastnight before bed and i weighed 11 stones 10 pounds which is a seven pound increase in just under 3 week.


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Sounds sorted to me. Just a matter of putting the muscle to the metal now, eh?


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Xris said:


> Sounds sorted to me. Just a matter of putting the muscle to the metal now, eh?


yeah! thanks xris. The only thing i'm havin trouble with now is dips. I'm struggling with these but can do them off the bench like shown in the link.

http://www.akard.com/images/tonetri1.gif

is this still ok?


----------



## Xris (Apr 4, 2007)

Yeah, it's a solution. And one variation of it is to do that movement between two benches, hands on one bench with your feet up on the one opposite you.

Another solution is to face the other way on the parallel bars and let your feet take some of the weight on the little crossbar which you normally use to mount the bars, if the equipment setup favours this.

Yet a third solution is to put a chair under the bars, mount the bars from the chair straight into the arms locked-out position and lower yourself to the full dip, then letting the chair take the weight. Then you stand back up to the lochout position and you're ready to do it again. If unsure about this, ask at the gym about 'negatives-only' dips. You're only moving bodyweight from the lockout downwards, but before long the strength to do the full dip comes along.

All of these will work. Good hunting.


----------



## steve edwards (Jan 23, 2007)

Xris said:


> Yeah, it's a solution. And one variation of it is to do that movement between two benches, hands on one bench with your feet up on the one opposite you.
> 
> Another solution is to face the other way on the parallel bars and let your feet take some of the weight on the little crossbar which you normally use to mount the bars, if the equipment setup favours this.
> 
> ...


Thanks xris


----------

