# Why aint everyone 18 stone ripped to shreds???



## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

What are the main reasons why so many 'bodybuilders' never reach their goal/body they dream about.

you read everyday about guys with spot on diet, perfect training, gear use off to a tee, but still never look like a bodybuilder.

whats missing?

are people dishonest with their selves, cheat but not recognise it, or what?

not having a pop, but you see guys everywhere preaching good things but getting no-where..

any thoughts

oh and by the way, my diets sh!t, i'm an idle trainer and an old man.......


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Totally agree with you mate, I think half those preaching on internet forums have a bollox diet and arent dedicated consistently day in day out for years to achieve what they want, but just make out they are super strict ect, train hard etc etc.

Although there is a good load on here that obviously are and it clearly shows in there avatars, there are some superb physiques on here IMO.


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

Genetics?

Me for example without blowing the top, I grow pretty well considering im always in hospital ill, on constant catabolic drugs (prednisone), low test + fked up piturity. And wrecked guts. Yet still sit around 100kg.

Where as I have mates who eat well, train hard and use A LOT of gear but still are small, undeveloped looking and not really got a physique. I can only put it down to genetics. Unless of course someones diet/training is awful, but other then that I'd say genetics.


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## roadz (Aug 28, 2008)

I think a lot of people know what to do and have good diet PLANS, but they are just that: plans. It's much harder to put into practice than write down on a piece of paper. I include myself in this category at times.


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

SK-XO said:


> Genetics?
> 
> Me for example without blowing the top, I grow pretty well considering im always in hospital ill, on constant catabolic drugs (prednisone), low test + fked up piturity. And wrecked guts. Yet still sit around 100kg.
> 
> Where as I have mates who eat well, train hard and use A LOT of gear but still are small, undeveloped looking and not really got a physique. I can only put it down to genetics. Unless of course someones diet/training is awful, but other then that I'd say genetics.


yea i agree to a point, but surely this day and age there's drugs, and dietricians complimented with good training that can surely push you past genetics...

not talking bout an 8 stone lad growing into a 20 stone monster, but surely he can beat his genetics to a certain degree....

is poor genetics just an excuse for some...


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

I would say consistency is the key. If you were to look at guys (or girls) who have consistently got all aspects right year after year after year I would say you would be looking at some pretty impressive physiques.


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## Franko1 (Nov 19, 2008)

I agree with the genetics arguements but i think consistancy is a factor. You can have all the plans in place etc but if you arent consistant with the diet/training, day in day out its much harder and longer to make the gains. It can be tough with work, family commitments for people sometimes.


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## Franko1 (Nov 19, 2008)

2004mark great minds think alike


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

adlewar said:


> yea i agree to a point, but surely this day and age there's drugs, and dietricians complimented with good training that can surely push you past genetics...
> 
> not talking bout an 8 stone lad growing into a 20 stone monster, but surely he can beat his genetics to a certain degree....
> 
> is poor genetics just an excuse for some...


Who knows really.... But tbh explain this one... what about the guys out there and this does happen that fair play abuse gear but they grow like fk and there diet is literally crap, mars bars, alcohol and mcdonalds thats it. Is that genetics?


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

2004mark said:


> I would say consistency is the key. If you were to look at guys (or girls) who have consistently got all aspects right year after year after year I would say you would be looking at some pretty impressive physiques.


Tbh fair play but I've seriously got mates who train there @ss off all year round, have no medical issues, eat well and lots, don't drink or party or whatever and use aas, yet still look meh. Fair do's diet plays a big part and maybe they could be eating better, couldn't we all? but you'd expect some level of growth at least.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Knowledge and dedication equals success IMO. If you are lacking in either, then I'd say you will struggle to achieve your goals.

Plus, there are to many sweeping one-size fits all statements out there. One size does not fit all, at all!!

Thats where knowledge comes in, so you can find the way that *does* work for you, personally.

And then dedication to drive you through, till you meet your goal.

When I was young and fat, I didn't know any better.

Then I was skinny because I didn't want to be fat.

Now I am hopefully on the right track to my next goal. To be fit and have a physique that pleases me!

Regardless of genetics, I've been at both ends of the spectrum...


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## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

Its different someone starting at 15st with no training and then hitting training hard, eating lots and doing gear than someone who starts off at 10st...

Having said that theres some smaller guys that are stronger/more muscular than other small guys before training and also some that grow quicker.

So yeah basically alot comes down to genetics.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

i will b 18 stone and ripped! if not its definitley genetics


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

i started off at around 9 n half stone think its even possible to nearly double my weight?


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## bry1979 (May 2, 2010)

i also agree that genetics are the main factor, maybe those that excel in this sport carry a lot more androgen receptors across their muscle groups and are able to respond better to aas, look at the likes of kevin levrone who never even used to train all year round but had a near perfect pysique when on stage.


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## DJay (Feb 6, 2011)

Genetics pre-judge our minimum and maximum everything. Intelegence, muscle mass, strength, fat storage, likelyhood to become addicted to chemicals, amount of stress we can deal with etc

They literally determine everything but its up to us to make sure we reach the maximum of our genetic potential and then maybe in a few years even our genetics can be changed. I even read someware that their developing a pill that will change the gene that determines eye colour and they expect it to hit the market before 2020.

Infact they will be able to change any gene once the research is done. For example their is a cow called the 'belgium blue' which puts on muscle mass 2x as fast as normal cows because at one time a cow/bull was born with this freak gene and then they bred the cow/bull to spread the gene to its young and then kept breeding it untill they had a new breed of cow. It is very likely this gene could be implanted into humans to alow us to do the same thing or even we might already have the gene but its switched off (as is the case with many genes)

Another example of how genes can be switched on and off. There is a gene that determines aging, aging is caused by a chemical that depletes as we get older and our body cant produce more because the gene that caused its production is switched off. Turn this gene on and we wont get older, we would reach our potential at 25 or whatever and just stay there. Aligators and other reptiles already have this ability, they never die of old age because the gene that stops aging is switched on.


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## energize17 (Jul 25, 2009)

Why most 18 stone guys are not ripped to shreds IMO cause there fat and there weight is the thin they boast about to there mates so guy one: how much do you weigh?

Guy two: 17 stone

Guy one i weigh 18 stone?

So guy one feels superior cause he weighs more than the other and he automatically thinks hes bigger ao if he was to cut ajd drop down to 16 stone and look lean then hed be pis5ed cause he now weighs 2 stone less than he did before and the guy he was heavier than is now heavIer than him

Ive seen this at the gym many times and i once asked a guy who was around 20+% bf why he didnt cut and was constantly bulikng and hes reply was well ill lose around 2 stone and ill feel skinny then I said you will look bettEr cause youd be leaner he was loke yh but then I would feel skinny and small.

Also i belive its also down to them being in that state for a matter of years that they dont have the will and determination to cut down aswell cause lets face cutting down is hard compared to bulking


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Because I started training again in Jan08 weighing 9.2 stone, im now 13stone, I eat clean 6 days per week, drink very little once every 7 days, still look like sh1t and still look 9 and a quarter stone.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

SK-XO said:


> Tbh fair play but I've seriously got mates who train there @ss off all year round, have no medical issues, eat well and lots, don't drink or party or whatever and use aas, yet still look meh. Fair do's diet plays a big part and maybe they could be eating better, couldn't we all? but you'd expect some level of growth at least.


Completely see where you are coming from, and I do agree to a point, some people will have to put a hell of a lot more effort in than others. I will never be 18 stone ripped... that would be about 20 stone at 15% bf... my genetics just wouldn't let me get that big lol But that certainly wont stop me from having a good physique.

I've been training for 12 years now... yet the last 9 months (since I joined here concededly  ) have been the most dedicated, and strangely enough when I've seen the best gains of my life. Since then not a single day has gone by when I've not thought about training or my diet. I now realise I've only been training 9 months and have a long way to go.

re: your friends. Yep you would expect something at least... but so did I for the first 11 years lol. 500 cals (or 70g of nuts) a day could literally be the difference between adding a stone every year or staying the same for some.


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## Nickthegreek (Jan 27, 2011)

It could be for a combination of several reasons some of which include:

They are not as strict with their diet as they say they are or their diet isn't sutable for what they want to acheive.

They drink too much alcohol

They are not attending training sessions as consistently as they should.

They are not training with enough intensity and pushing through the pain barrier.

They never increase the intensity of their workouts- I.e increasing the weight, reps on a certain weight, reducing the rest intervals during a workout etc

They do not get enough rest

They have very poor genetics

Even with the top level pro's body builders etc they can have issues in relation to size over, conditioning and aesthetic appeal. It's like if a body builder tries to come into a show say too big and full weighing as much as humanly possible he is obviously going to loose some of the detail and definition he would have had if he was 1-2 stone lighter. So basicly what im saying is that maybe they are just too obsessed with looking big and full and not concentrating as much on conditioning and definition/seperation of muscles as they should.


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## energize17 (Jul 25, 2009)

Sorry am i missig somethin here but becoming lean and cutting down to a low body fat has fcvk all to do with genetics

Getting to a low body fat is all down to diet training cardio and aas usage you can have sh1t genetics and still be able to get down to single digit body fats it is hard but requires you being strict and dedicated IMO genetics dont play a single part in you getting down to a lower body fat it may be eaiser for someone who has a lean tendency but that said someone who is a fat fccker can still do it

However genetics do play a part in how big you can get as in whether you natural genetic limit is 80,90,100 etc kg


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Because some of us are 20stone and ripped to shreds, and I for one don't wanna be no lightweight 18stone ****!

har har!


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

adlewar said:


> yea i agree to a point, but surely this day and age there's drugs, and dietricians complimented with good training that can surely push you past genetics...
> 
> not talking bout an 8 stone lad growing into a 20 stone monster, but surely he can beat his genetics to a certain degree....
> 
> is poor genetics just an excuse for some...


no amount of aas gh slin would turn a poodle into a pitbull. you cannot change your genetic make up like some people dont have the genes to be a 6'5 basketball player and not everyone has the genes to be a top bodybuilder - muscle structure, bone structure amount of muscle fibers - cortisol, myostatin levels amount of receptors the list goes on

however i do agree with what you're getting at. everyone can somewhat get past certain genetic limitations to get to a certain weight and bf that i agree with


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

bry1979 said:


> i also agree that genetics are the main factor, maybe those that excel in this sport carry a lot more androgen receptors across their muscle groups and are able to respond better to aas, look at the likes of kevin levrone who never even used to train all year round but had a near perfect pysique when on stage.


completely agree


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

energize17 said:


> Sorry am i missig somethin here but becoming lean and cutting down to a low body fat has fcvk all to do with genetics


Losing bodyfat is a quicker and easier task than probably building muscle is, so id have to agree.

I did muay thai for a long time but when I stopped I lounged around for to long, got lazy and ended up skinny fat and then went into weights/Lifing on a quest to get bigger and I dont think thats really done me any favours.


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## Space.Docker (Mar 30, 2011)

Its all down to discipline


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## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

genetics, and heavy ones could play apart, i started off at 20stone, now im at 18 ripped to a certain degree, at 17 id be ripped. But even at 18 im not HUGE, but im not carry much fat either


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Because these types of people aren't on here asking these questions... they're over the hob cooking their meals for the next day, hitting the gym hard, resting lots and planning routines that suit them.

No offense, this is why my bod sucks anyway lol


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Genetics play a part in success but then not everyone's goal is to be 18 stone and ripped it certainly is not mine......

the biggest problem is laziness now before people jump in and say they train hard etc and all that training, drinking protein shakes and sticking a needle in your Ass is the easy part any idiot can do that.......for most (as there are exceptions to the rule) to be the very best they can be needs much more scrutiny and precision with diet and a more flexible approach to training and gear use......

by this i mean many guys will say "yea my diet is spot on" yet they do not weigh there food so how can it be spot on if they guess what they are eating? many will say "you don't have to weigh food just make sure you eat plenty of protein and good fats" but what is considered plenty?

the other good one is "yea well i am not going to weigh and count calories because the guy in my gym who competes does not".....my reply to that is AND!!!! when i placed 3rd at the 2008 NABBA Britain i did not train legs until the final 8 weeks but my legs where still one of the best on stage that does not mean if my mate did that he would have the same outcome.......what others do has no relevance to what you should do as we are all different........

in my humble opinion if you want something then you do what ever it takes to acheive that....this does not mean you take more drugs it means you spend the time and effort to scrutinise your food intake so you know exactly what it takes to grow lean tissue.........

the same can be applied to training far to many follow other peoples way of training because that other person is big......compound movements do not work for everyone....i have not squatted in 15yrs but yet my legs are one of my best bodyparts and bigger than most of my mates legs who do squat? for me a mixture of heavy and high volume works best but i have found this out through trial and error something many are not prepared to do these days......

Drugs are no different, there is a mentality on this and other boards that more is always better or that to be considered advanced you have to use a stupid amount of gear....not true again find what works best for you and think about the synergy of the gear you are using rather than if it has a big number per ml....do that and you will benefit.

once you have been able to add flexibility to your training, workout what gear is best for you and you know exactly what you are eating then what happens after that is controlled more by Genetics.....

just my take on the subject.....


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

i dont want to be that big.......feel a neg or two coming on


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

barsnack said:


> i dont want to be that big.......feel a neg or two coming on


i just used 18 stone as a generalisation...lol


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

I second what Paul Says.

Lack of Discipline is by far the major contributer. I would not consider myself genetically gifted but i compete at 240lbs ( well did this year ) and will be able to compete at 18stone ripped next year no problem.

Paul is also correct with gear- at the moment i am taking.. nothing only protein no creatine nothing and i am sitting at 19stone heavier then i have ever been. Force feeding and a discplined off season diet adn heavy constant traing undoubtably counting for this.

As with paul i travel a lot 1000 miles a week now and i can tell you there is no excuse to not stick to your diet and train. Every city has a gym


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## darksider (Apr 5, 2011)

hard work and consistency and definitely agree with the synergy of the drugs you use if you use them definitely not mega mgs


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## aaronrugby (May 14, 2011)

i surpose its there body aswell. may just take longer. also i see alot of people putting "train hard" if you are naturally small they may need yo cut down there training as they burn off too much or just eat more. also people who "JUST WANT TO GET BIG" for the girls etc dont have much real goal, where as if you are strict and have a goal which you will do anything for then your more than likely to put your ass on the line to achieve.


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## spike (Jul 27, 2009)

I quit trying to get any bigger 10 years ago. 

I'm on trt and occasionally blast with another one or two compouns, but only in low doses eg a 225 rip blend @ 0.3ml ed.

That said, I am considering preparing for a first timers show next year. I would look to put on some size for that because even since I've started trt etc I haven't really gained weight. But body composition is totally different without changing rubbish diet or sporadic exercise programme. 

Almost forgot - came across this quote in a medical journal - all I can remember is that the woman who said it was a psychologist at UCLA named Lisa something. Anyway, cite over, she said "genes aren't destiny".

If anyone would like a paper on epigenetics and gene environment interaction, gene relevant environments and time, let me know. :laugh::laugh: :lol:


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

Love it.

Just a lot of people are full of sh*t.

You can tell the ones who are serious, and others who just talk the talk.


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## Nickthegreek (Jan 27, 2011)

Ha ha i used to be close to 18 stone. Was also 35-40% blubber and waist 42 inches!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I agree with just about all of the points made on this thread - genetics, lack of honesty with self about what you are really doing, lack of dedication and consistency in both diet and training... to fullfill maximum level, all of the above need to be bang on.

I also think that the bigger you get, the harder it gets to get even bigger. No matter what bodyweight/muscle mass your base point is (whether you start a skinny nine stone or a muscular 12 stone), most people should be able to whack on 20, 30... or even 40-50lbs of muscle over a few years.

Once you hit a certain point though, things start to get harder - much harder. Calories need to be kept constanly high enough to maintain muscle mass, training needs to be bang on and more and more intense/clever to continue to be progressive, strength progression becomes slower... is like a kind of law of diminishing returns, where more work is required for each 'unit' of progression you are trying to make.

Gotta remember that a bodybuilders body is a triumph against homeostasis - the body is naturally always fighting not to be that big, and the bigger you get, them more it fights to prevent you getting bigger.

This I think is where genetics play the biggest role - not for a beginner, but for the advanced bodybuilder. Someone with good genetics can go further than someone with 'weaker' geneteics before the body says "that's it, I'm maxed out - you'll now have to work hard as fcuk before I'm gonna add another lb of muscle, or allow you to drop that extra 0.5% bodyfat".


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

Dtlv74 said:


> I agree with just about all of the points made on this thread - genetics, lack of honesty with self about what you are really doing, lack of dedication and consistency in both diet and training... to fullfill maximum level, all of the above need to be bang on.
> 
> I also think that the bigger you get, the harder it gets to get even bigger. No matter what bodyweight/muscle mass your base point is (whether you start a skinny nine stone or a muscular 12 stone), most people should be able to whack on 20, 30... or even 40-50lbs of muscle over a few years.
> 
> ...


that is imo the best post in this thread!!

just summed up almost everything

REPS!


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## rocky666 (Jul 9, 2009)

i still say lee priest and paul dillett have something that most people dont have. They just seem to grow at will. Dillett was lazy and lee used to live at kfc in the off season and both have said they both dint use much gear which i believe now. What about low myostatin levels?


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Good posts here.

Think it's 101% dedication in everything be it diet, weights, cardio , aas

It's the little extras you do that makes you stand out from the guy beside you- with all thus in check you let your genetics to do the rest.

I train 2-3 x a week eat twice a day with a shake in morning and night and still gain more then the average user, so could be how your body make up responds to many factors in your life.


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## Irish Beast (Jun 16, 2009)

Diet is my issue. The training aspect is fine. With diet I eat well most of the time. However when I am not eating well I am the polar opposite and go days eating junk. Also I drink far too much beer!

If I could give up drinking (which will never happen) and be a bit more disciplined I reckon I could do quite well. Not going to happen so Im stuck with my muscle fat body!


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

adlewar said:


> What are the main reasons why so many 'bodybuilders' never reach their goal/body they dream about.
> 
> you read everyday about guys with spot on diet, perfect training, gear use off to a tee, but still never look like a bodybuilder.
> 
> ...


Genetics sure does play a big part but Bone Structure plays a BIG part too. NO way is a guy with a light bone Structure gonna be able to put on as much muscle as a guy with a thick bone structure , your body will continually fight against it. I remember once seeing a guide to what your potential would be dependent on your wrist size.

Why do you think you have different weight classes . some guys look awesome and are only 14 stone....and less ( and wont get any bigger) and just look like a miniature version of the 18stone guy.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Genetics,More importantly, muscle length,will determine how large a muscle can be.Its not open to manipulation any more than changing your hair colour.A naturally wide shoulder girth, with small hips.A rounded shape to the delts, quads that have a teardrop appearance.Darker skin, will likely enable you to reduce body fat to "champion levels" Abdominal muscles that are natually formed into a " 6 pack" The combination of these traits are always found in top level BBs.Any type of training will produce results.However , the owner of these traits will mistakenly believe it was their training regime which produced the results, when in reality, it was thier genes which permitted the results.Genetics load the gun, thre training squeezes the trigger.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

essexboy said:


> Genetics,More importantly, muscle length,will determine how large a muscle can be.Its not open to manipulation any more than changing your hair colour.A naturally wide shoulder girth, with small hips.A rounded shape to the delts, quads that have a teardrop appearance.Darker skin, will likely enable you to reduce body fat to "champion levels" Abdominal muscles that are natually formed into a " 6 pack" The combination of these traits are always found in top level BBs.Any type of training will produce results.However , the owner of these traits will mistakenly believe it was their training regime which produced the results, when in reality, it was thier genes which permitted the results.Genetics load the gun, thre training squeezes the trigger.


this is my point exactly about not everyone being able to be or look like a top bb but imo everyone has the genetics to get to a certain weight at a certain bf but some will look significantly better than others at that bodyweight because of genetics.


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

my take on it is, probably bull **** and mostly guess work being a newbie in terms of bodybuilding...

some people now a days are to scared to think out of the box, i wouldnt even like to guess how many "lean bulking" threads i have seen all over the internet.

you get people like lee priest who will eat and eat and eat, he doesnt care what he eats...some of the bf% levels he has been at over the years is nuts, you dont get that big eating grass and carrots six times a day. then you get other pro bodybuilders who are the same and wont stop them selfs from eating big macs or doughnuts

most people find it hard to understand how many cals they will need for their workout and anything else they may do during the day, and normally take maintainance cals + may be a couple of hundred on top , which gives them a very small margin for error and could see them staying at the same size for months.

it may not even be that, they may say they eat pasta/rice and chicken/beef all day long but may only have a chip butty, pot noodle, and some rice crispys. dedication plays a huge role, who wants oats when you can have a double sausage and egg muffin meal with a hash brown and milk from mcdonnalds


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Lee Priest, is likely 1 in 100 milion.His experiences/results are simply not valid.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

one of the biggest problems is people comparing what a Pro does to what they should do......just because Lee Priest has eaten KFC etc in the past does not mean you can do the same and grow muscle......yes you need calories but people need to use there heads Lee looked like sh1t when he eat that type of food, he looked awesome when he dieted for a show, it is easy to eat crap and look big but it is harder to diet and look big and ripped just because a seasoned Pro like Lee did it(he does not do that anymore) does not mean anyone can or should do it....this is where Lee's genetic come into play....so guys don't look at the current Pro's and think if you eat, trained or used the same gear as they do now you will look like them find out what they where doing when they started out that is what you want to be emulating as that is a more fairer comparison to you...


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

lee priest is either one of the true freaks of nature or is having a laugh at everyones expense

strangely though i believe him when he talks about his aas use. everyone i know thinks hes a liar though!


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Do you not think though that too much emphasis is put on genetics; often as an excuse for lack of dedication/graft?

The amount of times you get someone who's hardly been training that long going on about how they are limited by genetics is silly.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Two things IMO

1 ; Dis-honesty regarding diet etc

2 ; Not pushing it with there training......


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

Lloyd DA said:


> Do you not think though that too much emphasis is put on genetics; often as an excuse for lack of dedication/graft?
> 
> The amount of times you get someone who's hardly been training that long going on about how they are limited by genetics is silly.


if they get to 18 stones ripped but look smaller than someone else at that weight ripped then they can blame genetics - muscle structure, muscle bellies bone structure etc

everyone has the ability to get to 18 stone or even 20 stone ripped if you put your minds to it and dedicate yourself. if i can get to 19 stones at 21(not ripped! i know water weight etc but still...) coming from an ectomorph family with crap genes then anyone can!


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## militant786 (Jun 21, 2011)

its not genetics. many have proven htat. its about knowing your body, its about knowing what amount of gear to use, the mg's of the gear, how long, what works off cycle for your body, for me its only letro. for me i use max 1ml test a wk with 15mg dbol 4wk kickstart, this is all i need even at 16stone. in my pct i use letro, nolva and clomid have never done sh1te for me. my diet also changes depending on my body, how lnog ive been training, and so forth, i put on 2stone(nc lots of water and all that b.s that comes with it) at one point eating 1500 calories a day, training 3x a week not even hard. in that duration my bench went up 70kg in 4wks. in terms of my training that all depends too, some dys i can really push the weight with massive intensity, some others, not so high intensity. even with the training its about properly hitting the muscles too, making them work. i see too many people putting 100kg on the bar with 2 spotters and using physics and momentum to push it up. then i ask the same person to do 30kg bench for 10 reps prope reps and he strugles lol.... in terms of losing the BF% aswell, you get a lot of BB's doing 2hr cardio a day. to me thats stupid, its too much and ****s u up. i do 30 min 4-5x a wk and got to 5% bf quite fast. but what ive learnt in my years is that its about your stress levels, if high stress - wont gain. if low stress - will gain a sh1te load. but then again genetics have some role to some extent about how fast this happens. people like doggcrapp have proven otherwise, being 8stone and now 20stone, and several others inc myself. imo its a poor excuse to blame your genetics.


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

Diet biggest factor, then training. People listen too much to what the pros say dedicating a full day to train only arms etc. Then of cousre genetics. Very unlikely a guy like me who started at 8 stone will ever get to 18 stone ripped.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

militant786 said:


> its not genetics. many have proven htat. its about knowing your body, its about knowing what amount of gear to use, the mg's of the gear, how long, what works off cycle for your body, for me its only letro. for me i use max 1ml test a wk with 15mg dbol 4wk kickstart, this is all i need even at 16stone. in my pct i use letro, nolva and clomid have never done sh1te for me. my diet also changes depending on my body, how lnog ive been training, and so forth, i put on 2stone(nc lots of water and all that b.s that comes with it) at one point eating 1500 calories a day, training 3x a week not even hard. in that duration my bench went up 70kg in 4wks. in terms of my training that all depends too, some dys i can really push the weight with massive intensity, some others, not so high intensity. even with the training its about properly hitting the muscles too, making them work. i see too many people putting 100kg on the bar with 2 spotters and using physics and momentum to push it up. then i ask the same person to do 30kg bench for 10 reps prope reps and he strugles lol.... in terms of losing the BF% aswell, you get a lot of BB's doing 2hr cardio a day. to me thats stupid, its too much and ****s u up. i do 30 min 4-5x a wk and got to 5% bf quite fast. but what ive learnt in my years is that its about your stress levels, if high stress - wont gain. if low stress - will gain a sh1te load. but then again genetics have some role to some extent about how fast this happens. people like doggcrapp have proven otherwise, being 8stone and now 20stone, and several others inc myself. imo its a poor excuse to blame your genetics.


You posting a pic of yourself mate ?


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2011)

militant786 said:


> its not genetics. many have proven htat. its about knowing your body, its about knowing what amount of gear to use, the mg's of the gear, how long, what works off cycle for your body, for me its only letro. for me i use max 1ml test a wk with 15mg dbol 4wk kickstart, this is all i need even at 16stone. in my pct i use letro, nolva and clomid have never done sh1te for me. my diet also changes depending on my body, how lnog ive been training, and so forth, i put on 2stone(nc lots of water and all that b.s that comes with it) at one point eating 1500 calories a day, training 3x a week not even hard. in that duration my bench went up 70kg in 4wks. in terms of my training that all depends too, some dys i can really push the weight with massive intensity, some others, not so high intensity. even with the training its about properly hitting the muscles too, making them work. i see too many people putting 100kg on the bar with 2 spotters and using physics and momentum to push it up. then i ask the same person to do 30kg bench for 10 reps prope reps and he strugles lol.... in terms of losing the BF% aswell, you get a lot of BB's doing 2hr cardio a day. to me thats stupid, its too much and ****s u up. i do 30 min 4-5x a wk and got to 5% bf quite fast. but what ive learnt in my years is that its about your stress levels, if high stress - wont gain. if low stress - will gain a sh1te load. but then again genetics have some role to some extent about how fast this happens. people like doggcrapp have proven otherwise, being 8stone and now 20stone, and several others inc myself. imo its a poor excuse to blame your genetics.


youve totally lost me!!


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## bry1979 (May 2, 2010)

Milky said:


> You posting a pic of yourself mate ?


yeah, 16st and 5% bf i would like to see.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> one of the biggest problems is people comparing what a Pro does to what they should do......just because Lee Priest has eaten KFC etc in the past does not mean you can do the same and grow muscle......yes you need calories but people need to use there heads Lee looked like sh1t when he eat that type of food, he looked awesome when he dieted for a show, it is easy to eat crap and look big but it is harder to diet and look big and ripped just because a seasoned Pro like Lee did it(he does not do that anymore) does not mean anyone can or should do it....this is where Lee's genetic come into play....so guys don't look at the current Pro's and think if you eat, trained or used the same gear as they do now you will look like them find out what they where doing when they started out that is what you want to be emulating as that is a more fairer comparison to you...


Absolutely... however interesting it is to read what guys like Lee Priest used to do in the off season, to copy it just beacuse he did it and was sucessful is just plain stupid. As you say, people have to think sensibly about what's appropriate for them, not what works for a pro with great genetics on a load of gear.


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## Andrewgenic (Jul 5, 2010)

Work ethic, genetics and freedom to train without family/work pressures etc are what makes a pro different from your average joe.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Replicator said:


> Genetics sure does play a big part but Bone Structure plays a BIG part too. NO way is a guy with a light bone Structure gonna be able to put on as much muscle as a guy with a thick bone structure , your body will continually fight against it. I remember once seeing a guide to what your potential would be dependent on your wrist size.
> 
> Why do you think you have different weight classes . some guys look awesome and are only 14 stone....and less ( and wont get any bigger) and just look like a miniature version of the 18stone guy.





essexboy said:


> Genetics,More importantly, muscle length,will determine how large a muscle can be.Its not open to manipulation any more than changing your hair colour.A naturally wide shoulder girth, with small hips.A rounded shape to the delts, quads that have a teardrop appearance.Darker skin, will likely enable you to reduce body fat to "champion levels" Abdominal muscles that are natually formed into a " 6 pack" The combination of these traits are always found in top level BBs.Any type of training will produce results.However , the owner of these traits will mistakenly believe it was their training regime which produced the results, when in reality, it was thier genes which permitted the results.Genetics load the gun, thre training squeezes the trigger.


When i talk about genetics, am refering to all these points - bone structure, length of muscle bellies, position of muscle insertions, distribution of muscle fibre types etc etc... there are also indirect genetic differences that can have a big effect such as length of small intestine and stomach size... take two indivduals of the same height, and one can have a small intestine as much as three times the length of the other, and double the stomach size - this creates a profound difference in terms of how much food each individual can eat in one sitting, and also how efficiently each individual can absorb certain nutrients... this affects health, and has a knock on effect to bodybuilding, making it genuinely more difficult for some individuals to eat enough to sustain a muscular bodyweight beyond a certain point.


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## rocky666 (Jul 9, 2009)

what about reacting to gear better than others. Why do some people react to gear like a lee priest. There must be something why there bodies can assimilate all that food better than others.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

because you need loads of money.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

mal said:


> because you need loads of money.


VERY VERY valid point mate...


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## rocky666 (Jul 9, 2009)

also ive always wondered with the top guys. How many injections per day. Lets say some heavyweight is using 2grams of test per week slin gh ghrp6 lfg-1 synthol must be literally a pain in the ****.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

mate when i was younger,full on training, i spent 95%of my weekly wage for 12 years solid

and that wasnt near enough,money held me back in the end,not genetics or

how hard you train etc.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

rocky666 said:


> also ive always wondered with the top guys. How many injections per day. Lets say some heavyweight is using 2grams of test per week slin gh ghrp6 lfg-1 synthol must be literally a pain in the ****.


Mate there was a fella on here who did a journal and fu*k me his intake was immense !!

He was swapping sites on a daily basis !


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

ricky23 said:


> lee priest is either one of the true freaks of nature or is having a laugh at everyones expense
> 
> strangely though i believe him when he talks about his aas use. everyone i know thinks hes a liar though!


i believe most of what lee says just due to the fact he is so straight forward talking, he is a hardcore kind of bloke...and will pretty much with in reason speak his mind....even to the point he may loose his sponsorship

its hard to call him a liar about his low gear usage when the photos back up the fact that most of his bulking was done through diet, as at points in his life he was a right fatty, even in his dvds...i expect he took more steroids than most people on these forums, but i have no reason to doubt when he says he doesnt take as much as the other pro's


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

rocky666 said:


> what about reacting to gear better than others. Why do some people react to gear like a lee priest. There must be something why there bodies can assimilate all that food better than others.


I'd say there's probably a good deal of truth to that... there are definitely a number of genetic polymorphisms in androgen receptors (meaning that not everyones AR's respond exactly the same way to the same stimulus). Differences are subtle, but definitely enough to affect things like risk of sex hormones related cancers (ovarian, prostrate etc), so they may well affect response to gear slightly too.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

you say the opening post like its easily achievable to get to 18 stone shredded.........the obvious fact is - not many do it because its hard as fuk lol (sorry if been said - not read all answers)


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## quinn85 (Jul 30, 2010)

How about...it takes f*cking years?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

rocky666 said:


> what about reacting to gear better than others. Why do some people react to gear like a lee priest. There must be something why there bodies can assimilate all that food better than others.


this would come under the heading of Genetics for me mate....



cas said:


> i believe most of what lee says just due to the fact he is so straight forward talking, he is a hardcore kind of bloke...and will pretty much with in reason speak his mind....even to the point he may loose his sponsorship
> 
> its hard to call him a liar about his low gear usage when the photos back up the fact that most of his bulking was done through diet, as at points in his life he was a right fatty, even in his dvds...*i expect he took more steroids than most people on these forums*, but i have no reason to doubt when he says he doesn't take as much as the other pro's


your joking right? we had a guy just the other week who at 94kg was hitting 2.7g per week from what Lee has said about his gear use it has never been near that much....i know a handful of Pro's and believe me that is more than they use on a weekly basis.

no one will believe that a Pro in general use modest amounts of gear because they need a reason why they are not the same so they think of excuses like

1 - he uses 10 x more gear than me

2 - he has the time to train twice a day

3 - he must use 30iu of GH a day

and the list goes on.....i am sure there are some Pro that do use huge amounts but not all of them and to be fair most top amateurs use just as much if not more mainly because they use Gear to make up the void Genetics fill......


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## bry1979 (May 2, 2010)

Dtlv74 said:


> I'd say there's probably a good deal of truth to that... there are definitely a number of genetic polymorphisms in androgen receptors (meaning that not everyones AR's respond exactly the same way to the same stimulus). Differences are subtle, but definitely enough to affect things like risk of sex hormones related cancers (ovarian, prostrate etc), so they may well affect response to gear slightly too.


also i think the numbers of androgen receptors in muscle can vary significantly which will affect the response to aas


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## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

a lot of it will depend on the base at which you start, if you start as a 16 stone solid built but carrying a bit then you have, on the whole more of a chance of being around 14 or 15 stone (or possibly higher in time) then a person starting with a skinny 10 stone base

the main point of the argument to ascertsain is are we talking actually 18 stone or looking 18 stone?

personally from the people that i have met, mainly on the doors the majority cane the gear but their diet usually consists of t5's, mcdonalds chicken nuggetts and beer at weekends, the majority of their physiques represent it


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

simple really as guys like to take all the gear think they train hard enough have an ok diet but dont push their own boundaries , lots of guys on here just want to look good so pushing for that competition winning body is not in the mindset , having the will power to achieve the body you speak of is the most important part .

and your never too old .


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Casey Viator was the youngest ever Mr.America.He was 19.Boyer Coe predicted his potential when his was 13.Casey also has a sister who was a solid 180lbs.Casey won the America, (and every bodypart) without using steroids.Mike Mentzer was in the same show and came 10th.This is the level of genetic "influence" that appears at the highest level.Im sure many similar comparisons are evident.I just happen to live in the 1970s.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

militant786 said:


> its not genetics. many have proven htat. its about knowing your body, its about knowing what amount of gear to use, the mg's of the gear, how long, what works off cycle for your body, for me its only letro. for me i use max 1ml test a wk with 15mg dbol 4wk kickstart, this is all i need even at 16stone. in my pct i use letro, nolva and clomid have never done sh1te for me. my diet also changes depending on my body, how lnog ive been training, and so forth, i put on 2stone(nc lots of water and all that b.s that comes with it) at one point eating 1500 calories a day, training 3x a week not even hard. in that duration my bench went up 70kg in 4wks. in terms of my training that all depends too, some dys i can really push the weight with massive intensity, some others, not so high intensity. even with the training its about properly hitting the muscles too, making them work. i see too many people putting 100kg on the bar with 2 spotters and using physics and momentum to push it up. then i ask the same person to do 30kg bench for 10 reps prope reps and he strugles lol.... in terms of losing the BF% aswell, you get a lot of BB's doing 2hr cardio a day. to me thats stupid, its too much and ****s u up. i do 30 min 4-5x a wbe.Please k and got to 5% bf quite fast. but what ive learnt in my years is that its about your stress levels, if high stress - wont gain. if low stress - will gain a sh1te load. but then again genetics have some role to some extent about how fast this happens. people like doggcrapp have proven otherwise, being 8stone and now 20stone, and several others inc myself. imo its a poor excuse to blame your genetics.


Congratulations, on posting the most inane drivel in a single post so far this year.My evidence is empirical, yours is an emotionally fueled ditribe of opinion that has no evidence or value.


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## TIMMY_432 (Aug 6, 2009)

Because most of us haven't been training since we were 13


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## Malibu (May 13, 2010)

wait a minute? where not?


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## thetong6969 (Nov 23, 2008)

i started off with legs like my forearms(which are thin naturally)

at your typical 7 stone weakling, made sure i could do 3 sets of 50 bodyweight push ups before going near a gym, this took time

at my best i was 12 stone

and competed at 56-72k powerlifting, won no 1 lancs and cheshire and manchester and district too plus 2 team events came 2nd around 10 years ago

i took a break and before i knew it became diabetic(almost killed me thanks to doc)

i know flow around 70 and heaviest was 78k recently as i am diabetic i have to work round sugar levels

and never have a hypo near , before or after training(mainly at work occasionally)

i have seen a few guys naturally at 14-15 stone who have worked hard for it

have known a few guys who have used aas some and most with bad diet, one recently said his diet was ok but ph's didnt work for him fried chicken wings and breaded fish aint a diet lol

even i said ii put more muscle on eating steak veg and 5-6 big chicken breasts a day

at 5ft 5 12-13 stone is my goal but it's long term with deads involved 3 times a week when i get back to where i was


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

essexboy said:


> Casey Viator was the youngest ever Mr.America.He was 19.Boyer Coe predicted his potential when his was 13.Casey also has a sister who was a solid 180lbs.Casey won the America, (and every bodypart) without using steroids.Mike Mentzer was in the same show and came 10th.This is the level of genetic "influence" that appears at the highest level.Im sure many similar comparisons are evident.I just happen to live in the 1970s.


although i do not know either but how do you know Casey did not use steroids?....because he said so?



essexboy said:


> Congratulations, on posting the most inane drivel in a single post so far this year.My evidence is empirical, yours is an emotionally fueled ditribe of opinion that has no evidence or value.


tell me why you feel your opinion is more valid than another members? why you feel the need to put this members post down?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> although i do not know either but how do you know Casey did not use steroids?....because he said so?
> 
> tell me why you feel your opinion is more valid than another members? why you feel the need to put this members post down?


Hi Paul.Casey was very open about his drug use, in latter competitions.Why would he lie about previous use? it would be pointless.

Re the second point.After much agreement, and evidence, that genes are an overwhealming factor.Militants opening line "Is not genetics many have proven that" Flies in the face of empirical evidence,science and experience.Merely disagreeing without any evidence is pointless.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

essexboy said:


> Hi Paul.Casey was very open about his drug use, in latter competitions.Why would he lie about previous use? it would be pointless..


pointless yes but that is not to say he was not telling the truth he could of used and i am not saying he did but alot of the guys from that era did lie about there drug use......



essexboy said:


> Re the second point.After much agreement, and evidence, that genes are an overwhealming factor.Militants opening line "Is not genetics many have proven that" Flies in the face of empirical evidence,science and experience.Merely disagreeing without any evidence is pointless.


i am not saying you should agree with him in fact i think what he said made no sense but just put it in a better way as i dont want this thread to go downhill like so many do....hope you understand.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> pointless yes but that is not to say he was not telling the truth he could of used and i am not saying he did but alot of the guys from that era did lie about there drug use......
> 
> i am not saying you should agree with him in fact i think what he said made no sense but just put it in a better way as i dont want this thread to go downhill like so many do....hope you understand.


Sure Paul.My reply was somewhat inflammatory.Ill keep it civil.


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## switch (Jan 5, 2011)

I am 18 stone and ripped to shreads, I have a ripped leg, back and shoulder muscles can't wait till they repair so I can train and get rid of all the fat ........


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## SteamRod (Oct 1, 2007)

good for you mate  how many years did it take you from what base?


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

chilisi said:


> Not always true mate.
> 
> Work plays a big part in my training, so sometimes I struggle to keep gains, due to my job when everything else is 100%


Not saying with everyone mate, you clearly know your stuff judging by your avi..


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## energize17 (Jul 25, 2009)

Op was the question meant to be

Why isnt everyone who is 18 stone ripped to shreds (meaning big guys that are 18 stone but not lean)

OR was it

Why isnt everyone 18 stone and ripped to shreds (meaning what limits someone to a cerain weight group)

Cause i thoght it was the first one but all this talk of genetics and jatural limit im thinkig its the second one


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

chilisi said:


> I just need to win the lottery, so I don't have to go to work
> 
> I am lazy though sometimes, with my diet. I have eaten crap the last few days, then I beat myself up about not losing weight. Silly cvnt


I had bolognase last nite mate with a bit of pasta and you would thought l had eaten a new born baby the guilt l felt !


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

chilisi said:


> I had a double cheese buger at the carnival today and an indian takeaway just now... I feel like a fat waste of space.
> 
> Going gym tomorrow, to burn off my sins.


I am working so no chance, head fu*k thro and thro mate...


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## ekko (Dec 3, 2008)

ricky23 said:


> no amount of aas gh slin would turn a poodle into a pitbull. you cannot change your genetic make up like some people dont have the genes to be a 6'5 basketball player and not everyone has the genes to be a top bodybuilder - muscle structure, bone structure amount of muscle fibers - cortisol, myostatin levels amount of receptors the list goes on
> 
> however i do agree with what you're getting at. everyone can somewhat get past certain genetic limitations to get to a certain weight and bf that i agree with


Couldnt have put it better myself.


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

I wouldnt mind even being 13 stone ripped OP never mind 18 stone, i still cant do this ffs,lol.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

If everyone was 18st and ripped to shreds,there would be no individuality.


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

BLUE(UK) said:


> If everyone was 18st and ripped to shreds,there would be no individuality.


f*ck individuality, i want to be 18 stone ripped to shreds


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## Tassotti (Feb 27, 2011)

I'm pretty much the first half of the question...the second half proves to be elusive for me


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2011)

Tassotti said:


> I'm oretty much the first half of the question...the second half proves to be elusive for me


likewise. i can get very big but not ripped or ripped but not 18 stone ripped. hard to stay lean when bulking and in a big cal surplus - gh me thinks


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## toxic (Jul 22, 2011)

definitley down to genetics


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

energize17 said:


> Op was the question meant to be
> 
> Why isnt everyone who is 18 stone ripped to shreds (meaning big guys that are 18 stone but not lean)
> 
> ...


18 stone was just a generalisation....

still see it now tho, guys preaching about macro's, protein intake, nailed diets, training like a spartan, but 'most' don't even look like they've been in a gym..

i get the 'genetics' factor, but my point being, something else is wrong, because alot of guys are not reaching anywhere near their genetic limit even tho according to themselves, everything is spot on???

bit of a bump anyway...


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

IMO (in no set order): Diet, genetics, lifting style(s), time training (always neglected - it takes years!) and also rest. Too many variables to say just one area. That said, between UKBFF Finals last year and UKBFF Bedford comp I put on 8kg of muscle (pic's to prove available as well) so getting the diet etc right can give pretty decent gains.

Shame at 6' 1" means I still looking slim, even at 96kg (which I was at my last comp). Aiming for 110kg lean by 2015 myself


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

I'd be very happy with 100kg nice and lean, i'm not far off that, i'm often over 100kg but just not as lean as i want


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

adlewar said:


> 18 stone was just a generalisation....
> 
> *still see it now tho, guys preaching about macro's, protein intake, nailed diets, training like a spartan, but 'most' don't even look like they've been in a gym..*
> 
> ...


You can say one thing but doing it is another matter, thats why


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

mal said:


> because you need loads of money.


well theres a poor excuse if ever i heard one- and advocation that big physiques are built on expensive drugs.

Lets break it down food on a bulking cycle off season you are looking at no more then 40 quid a week- thats 18 eggs a day and 300g of turkey plus 800g of oats and 250g of rice ( based on my diet )

Gear wise- 750mg-1g of test a week for a twelve week cycle- ok im not going to discuss prices, but we are not talking thousands of pounds or anywhere near that.

I have average genetics and would class myself as an average bodybuilder- yet im here at 19stone with faint abs ( emphasis added) and no gear.

It doesnt cost loads of money- it does however cost a lot of discipline and hard work- the latter being in the end the most costly that people are not willing to do. Fact.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

laurie g said:


> well theres a *poor *excuse if ever i heard one- and advocation that big physiques are built on expensive drugs.
> 
> Lets break it down food on a bulking cycle off season you are looking at no more then 40 quid a week- thats 18 eggs a day and 300g of turkey plus 800g of oats and 250g of rice ( based on my diet )
> 
> ...


 :lol:


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## massmansteve (Apr 23, 2009)

day in and day out consistancey, and defo genitics play i huge part i feel, also muscle fibre makeup, you could be training your legs all day with heavy movments and find they almost all slow muslce fibres!

ive made the best gains by eating the same consistent food every day and making sure i dont miss sessions so your not always catching up and moving forward.. and theres always something to learn, after 12yrs of lifting im still learning new stuff.. one day imight even be able to spell :smartass:


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