# Need Help With Body Definition



## Habby (Aug 12, 2004)

I like to say that I have a great overall body shpe. Im not fat at all, and I do have alot of natural muscle, but what I want to do is add definition to the muscle to make them more prominant. At the moment ive started on creatine and tommorow I will start on synytax whey protein. In addition some days I eat chicken, some days tuna, and others soya. I usually have a breakfast of crunchy nut cornflakes (I know but I love it). Then for lunch i'll probably have a tuna mayonase and sweetcorn sandwitch or something and for dinner well last night I had two lina mcartny country pies (soya) with salad (avocardo, lettuce, tommatos). At the moment im on my loading phase of creatine, so im having 4 x 5gms per day. And i will also start on my whey protein shakes tommorow.

For excercise im currently doing 200 bicep curls on each arm with 5Kg weights (highest I have at the moment) followed by 20 triceps and 20 (working out my shoulder and chest area). Ive also got those things you squezze with your hands, I do about a hundred of those with each hand. Followed by about 50 -60 situps and 20 pushups. I usually do this about twice a day.

Can you see anything that im doing wrong in there? Im a total newbie when it comes to this so im going to need some help. Bear in mind thogh, im not looking for massive muscles, just hard and defined ones. Oh by the way, im 21 years old...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Not sure why no-ones replied to you yet... I'm a newbie myself, but I'll make a couple of comments.

Essentially I think if you want to get better muscle definition you'll need to lose body fat, by appropriate diet and exercise. This needs to include enough protein and some weights work to stop you from losing muslce mass at the same time. The sort of light weight, high rep exercises you're doing at the moment are not what's recommended for building muscle (check out the sticky at the top of this thread), but whether they'll suit your aims or not I couldn't say I'm afraid.



Habby said:


> At the moment ive started on creatine and tommorow I will start on synytax whey protein.


 Whey protein is just a supplement to a diet. You need to work out your protein needs, and if you can't get these from whole food then consider adding supplements such as this to do it.

Now hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along with some useful advice.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

creatine will bloat you like a pig at an all-you-can-eat buffet. and that will do nothign for your "definition.".

the advice given above is spot in imo. definition comes with as reduction in overall body fat. nothing else.

forget this 200reps nonsense. thats endurance training. he exact opposite in the spectrum of muscle adaptations to what you want. <(hypertrophy and strength).

go heavy on your weights, to force your body to keep all the muscle it has and have a read about an areobic training system called HIIT. (high intensity interval training).


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## Habby (Aug 12, 2004)

By saying creatine will bloat me like a pig, do you mean in terms of fat or muscle?


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

neither. creatine draws water into the cells. nothing else. any, and i mean any, increase in muscle size+strength is down to increased volume of water. making your muscles look and feel "soft". it is theorised that in time tthe extra water will draw other nutrients into the cells (protien) to re-balence the concentrations. and hopefullythe protien will be synthesised.

i don't buy it though.

also, 1/3of people do not react to creatine at all. these are called creatine, non-responders. i am one such bloke.


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

neither, water! it makes you hold water in your mucles, so with smooth defenition

in a rush, so not got time to comment, but you really need to look at a proper training routine! 200 bicep curls aint gonna do jack sh1t!

oh, and that syntrax whey is the dogs bollocks! Excelletn choice, tastes amazing too!


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## Habby (Aug 12, 2004)

Panthro said:


> neither, water! it makes you hold water in your mucles, so with smooth defenition
> 
> in a rush, so not got time to comment, but you really need to look at a proper training routine! 200 bicep curls aint gonna do jack sh1t!
> 
> oh, and that syntrax whey is the dogs bollocks! Excelletn choice, tastes amazing too!


Why wont 200 bicep curls do anything?? If that wont do anything, then what will?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Stick with basic compound movements. Bench, squats, deadlifts, military, pullups. I like to stay in the 8-12 rep range for about 3 to 4 sets per excercise. Weight lifting is one of the best fat burners there are. Dont forget when you put on more muscle your body just burns more fat to support the more muscle


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## Habby (Aug 12, 2004)

winger said:


> Stick with basic compound movements. Bench, squats, deadlifts, military, pullups. I like to stay in the 8-12 rep range for about 3 to 4 sets per excercise. Weight lifting is one of the best fat burners there are. Dont forget when you put on more muscle your body just burns more fat to support the more muscle


Nice... Thanks alot for that information... Just one question... What are deadlifts?


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

> What are deadlifts?


good god man! its no wonder your having problems 

the deadlift, second only to the squat, is the most important lift when aiming to gain size and strength. its very easy to explain, but very technical, and as it requires a huge amount of lower back strength, it is best to get someone to show you the correct form in real life. a good coach/PT should do this.

or find out where the nearst PL club is, even if its a 1 hr drive, just go once and see how its done. they will be big guys with big lifts, but they don't bite, and are usually more than happy to help a newbie get squatting and pulling.

lastly, if you value the ability to walk and perfrom simple day to day tasks that you take for granted: NEVER, EVER do deadlifts for reps higher than 3. 5 at very most. its just plain dangerous.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hab, If you are training by yourself without a gym then do pressups/pushups.

This will develop your chest and triceps and the supporting muscles of your stomach.

A proper gym would be nice but if you dont have it then you need to compromise.

I know guys that have developed with high reps myself.

If you do basic compound exercises then this would be great.

Your original post was asking for information regarding lean-ness.

Diet is key here, pure and simple.

This is done with frequent meals,

Lots of water,

Lots of sleep,

Enough protein to support your lean muscle mass.

Not too many carbs (especially high glycemic ones).


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Habby said:


> Nice... Thanks alot for that information... Just one question... What are deadlifts?


 Read the sticky at the top of this section; it contains links to three sites showing video clips of loads exercises, including deadlifts.


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## Benj1436114491 (Apr 27, 2004)

> lastly, if you value the ability to walk and perfrom simple day to day tasks that you take for granted: NEVER, EVER do deadlifts for reps higher than 3. 5 at very most. its just plain dangerous.


Why do you recommend this james? I currenly do my deadlifts to reps of 8 - 10!

Correct me if im wrong but, Less reps = More weight, which I think would be more likely to cause an injury.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

> Correct me if im wrong


as you wish.



> Less reps = More weight


yep.



> which I think would be more likely to cause an injury.


nope. not at all. the deadlift is incredibley technical, as i am sure you are aware. it requires huge concentration and near perfect form. "thats not all that different form every other exercise you say?" and you'd be right. but:

in my opinion, the deadlift is very hit/miss. you either have excelent form, or you have poor form. and if you are doing 3x8 do you honestly think your form is as good on the final few reps of the 24+ you will be doing, as it was on the first few? no, me either.

one question: how far in front of the bar are your shoulders at the start of the pull?

(i would appreciate it if no-one else would answer that question except benj. thanks.)


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## Benj1436114491 (Apr 27, 2004)

I see your point.... but im still not fully convinced

At the start of the pull ! wouldn't say my shoulders were even in front of the bar, this a bad thing?


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## Hardrive (Apr 28, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> good god man! its no wonder your having problems
> 
> the deadlift, second only to the squat, is the most important lift when aiming to gain size and strength. its very easy to explain, but very technical, and as it requires a huge amount of lower back strength, it is best to get someone to show you the correct form in real life. a good coach/PT should do this.
> 
> ...


Hi there dude

no shame in not knowing what deadlifts are most BBC (bench bicep crew) still dont know and the ones that do dont bother, Any way when starting out bodybuilding or lifting weights start small and work on the princable of 8 to 12 reps per set dont go heavy get your form right first then you can up the weight.

Sorry James if this contradicts your advice but a newbee lifting heavy weights before mastering form is dangerous especially deadlifts.

So many people go to gyms lifting mega heavy with the wrong form are not getting the full potential out of there workout and are prone to injure them selfs.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Hardrive said:


> Any way when starting out bodybuilding or lifting weights start small and work on the princable of 8 to 12 reps per set dont go heavy get your form right first then you can up the weight.


 I'm glad to here you say that as it's very much what I've been doing, especially with deadlifts and squats. I started doing these about 6 weeks ago with very light weights, as the movements were just so new to me I kind of felt 'unstable' just doing them. Now I've been doing them for a while I feel much more 'solid' doing them, and am used to the movements, and so am starting to push the weight up. Maybe I'll try to stick to 8 reps for deadlifts to stay at the safer end of things though...


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2004)

> Sorry James if this contradicts your advice but a newbee lifting heavy weights before mastering form is dangerous especially deadlifts.


i couldn't agree more. but you have overlooked one thing. just because i reccomend 5's, triples and singles on DL's doesn't mean they have to be heavy.

i must have posted this about 10 times on this forum already (so i am sorry for those that think i ma repeating myself), but deadlifts, like you say, and like i said in the original post, are technically very difficult to get spot on. thats exactly why you shouldn't rep out on them above 3-5.

do you tink your form is going to be as good on rep 24 (using 3x8 as an example) as it was on rep 1? i don't, and people that do often end up injured. then they blame the deadlift, instead of the real culpirt, themselves.

no one has said you have to go heavy to do 10x1, 10x2 / whatever, just don't rep out. thats all i am saying.

also, i can see my opener in the other post was taken to mean something it wasn't mean't to be. there is no shame n not knowing what a deadlift is, or any exercise.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> do you tink your form is going to be as good on rep 24 (using 3x8 as an example) as it was on rep 1? i don't,...


 That will surely depend on the weight involved? I mean, are you telling me that you don't think you could do this at any weight? Surely if you went light enough you could. I guess then you'd say the weight was too light to be doing much good though.

How many sets of three reps would you recommend?


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2004)

i don't reccomend numbers of sets for learning an exercise. that would be close to impossible. i for example have the dimensions to make the biomecanhics of the deadlift very efficient. making me a "natural" deadlifter. as such it deos not take me long to get back "in the groove" after a period of not deadlifting. it didn't take me long to learn the form either. my friend Tom on the other hand is 6'9'', has a long torso and short arms, he has considerable trouble with deadlifts and form, no to mention the increased ROM owing to the fact he is not a natural puller.

if i had to put a figure on it, i would say 7-15x1/2/3.

which do you think would better suit the needs of a beginner deadlifter, with the fact that form does deteriorate during the course of a set in the front of your mind:

lifter [a] - doing 3x8 with 70kg

or lifter * doing 8x3 with 100kg???*

*
*

*
i knwo what i would reccomend. i would rather go slightly heavier, do soem good, hard work, and not risk using bad form on at the end of a 8 rep set, and therefore risking serious injury.*

*
*

*
*



> *Surely if you went light enough you could. I guess then you'd say the weight was too light to be doing much good though. *


 

*
my point exactly.*


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2004)

in my opinion, for compound exercises, if you are doing more than 5 sets, and less than 5 reps, you can't go far wrong.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> if i had to put a figure on it, i would say 7-15x1/2/3.
> 
> which do you think would better suit the needs of a beginner deadlifter, with the fact that form does deteriorate during the course of a set in the front of your mind:
> 
> ...


 

*
Right what you say makes sense. I hadn't initally appreciated you were recommending more sets to still give a similar number of total reps. Glad I asked. I can certainly see the logic in what you've said and will probably give this a try. Oh, BTW, I'm a real beginner (skinny guy) and I doubt I could deadlift 70kg for one rep!*


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2004)

glad to see i have been of help. i hate it when someone is doing something dangerous and can't see it. <<<<(every time i step in a gym these days  ). anyways, no need to apologise for being a beginner. the first time i pulled a deadlift i didn't get much over 70kg either.

what kind of gains are you making at the moment? and what is your current routine? maybe i can help you in other areas too?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

James.Titor said:


> what kind of gains are you making at the moment? and what is your current routine? maybe i can help you in other areas too?


 Cheers for the offer James. I'm 6'2" tall and weighed 67.3kg first thing this morning, which is up 3.7kg on 6 weeks ago. I'll post my workout in a seperate post sometime soon, but have got to dash now.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2004)

good. your adding about 1-1.5lbs a week. thats some good gains for a natural.

do post your routuine up, and post your diet up in the D+N forum, i am not a nutrition whizz, but i can offer some advice.


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## Panthro (Jan 12, 2004)

Habby said:


> Why wont 200 bicep curls do anything?? If that wont do anything, then what will?


lol, well mate, 200 reps is useless! To put on size you need to use much lower reps and much higher weight.. try 6-12 reps!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

habby, go to the gaining weight section, and you will find some invaluable advice and information regarding everything you need to know.


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## skizxi (Sep 16, 2004)

cut back on the creatine 4 x 5gm a day is far to much, youll just be ****ing most of it out, alevel teaspoon and day is plenty. on wk out days take it just after wk out and on non wk out days take it first thing in the morning. also best taking it with cramberry juice or grape juice ( something with simple sugers to get it into the blood streem quicker


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