# bill starr 5x5 !



## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

1.Is this bill starr 5 x 5 routine ,and if so is it good?

2.what does teh assistance bit mean on the routine?

3.and what does use the wieght from teh 3rd set for a final set of 8 ?

4.the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set ?

im confused alot about how to do this program 

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 521pt;" id="table5" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="695">[TR][TD] Exercise[/TD] [TD] Sets x Reps[/TD] [TD] Details[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] Monday[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Squat[/TD] [TD] 5x5[/TD] [TD] Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Bench[/TD] [TD] 5x5[/TD] [TD] Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Barbell Row[/TD] [TD] 5x5[/TD] [TD] Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] Wednesday[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Squat[/TD] [TD] 4x5[/TD] [TD] First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Incline or Military[/TD] [TD] 4x5[/TD] [TD] Ramping weight to top set of 5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Deadlift[/TD] [TD] 4x5[/TD] [TD] Ramping weight to top set of 5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD] Friday[/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Squat[/TD] [TD] 4x5, 1x3, 1x8[/TD] [TD] First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Bench[/TD] [TD] 4x5, 1x3, 1x8[/TD] [TD] First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Barbell Row[/TD] [TD] 4x5, 1x3, 1x8[/TD] [TD] First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]


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## flapjack (Mar 1, 2008)

Not sure if this is Bill Starrs 5x5 but it will build some serious mass and strength with the right diet.

If you are only just starting out lifting weights it may kill you.

As said looks an excellent workout though


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Yes mate, it's called 'Madcow' by Bill Starr. I absolutely loved that routine - my strength went up something chronic for me. I was at a sticking point & decided to give this a try.

In answer to your questions;

1. lol, I've already told you it's a Bill Starr routine, lol

2. The assistance bit means do that at the end of the session. So, on Monday, do the 2 sets of hypers & 4 sets of weighted sit ups at the end of your sesh.

3. If your doing Friday's routine, it means you do 4x5 with the same weight as Monday, the triple is a 2.5% increase on your top set of 5 what you did on Monday. I.e if your final set of squats on Monday was 100kg for 5 reps, on friday's sesh you need to add 2.5% to your 1x3 (so it'd be 102.5kg), do you see what I mean? So for you final set of 8 on friday you take the weight you squatted in your third set of 5 from the previous Monday. It's making you add weight/reps without you really thinking about it.

4. Whatever weight you use for your 3rd set, use it for your fourth, too. I.e. you do Monday's squat for 5 reps, & 5sets - on weds squats you use exactly the same weight for the same amount of sets until the last set where you use the same weight as you do for the set before. So, I.e Monday squats; set 1 - 50kg, set 2- 60kg, set 3 - 70kg, set 4 - 80kg, set 5 - 90kg. On weds you'd do; set 1 - 50kg, set 2 - 60kg, set 3 - 70kg, set 4 - 70kg again - understand?

It's a very taxing programme, but if you have good recovery powers you'll love it. I lasted about 6 weeks (if that) & I became exhausted, but I've got poor recovery powers. It's great for beginners if you can recover. Just eat big mate.

enjoy


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

Thank you , your a great help

Cant wait to start this on Monday.


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

How much should I increase weight by on sets till I get to my max 5 x 5 ?


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Just follow the program mate. It say's 2.5%, but that may become too much when your near you maximum. If you can get hold of some 1kg plates, or even 0.5kg plates, that's progress in itself.

I think my problem was that at the time I didn't have an fractional plates & the smallest plates in my gym are 2.5kg, so I was having to increase by 5% each week. I now have fractional plates so I'll give that routine a go in the future.


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks again.


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

thats a monster routine, looks brilliant! I spend all week dreading squats so I guess it would be a good way to kind of face that fear head on. I woudnt fancy deads of bench after squats though.


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## Troy McClure (Mar 30, 2006)

irwit said:


> thats a monster routine, looks brilliant! I spend all week dreading squats so I guess it would be a good way to kind of face that fear head on. *I woudnt fancy deads of bench after squats though*.


your body will adapt and get used to it.


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## lostweekend (Feb 25, 2007)

This is a really, really good routine. I've been training for 15 years and have tried most of the stuff that's out there - but my strength gains on this one astounded me! did it for 3 months I added around 20% to my major lifts 

One word of advice though - don't try to hit your maxs on the first week! Start conservatively and aim to be near your maxs by the 3rd or 4th week. That way you get some 'momentum' and get accustomed to this style of training.

Have you been to Madcow's geocities site? He has some very useful additional information on there.




irwit said:


> thats a monster routine, looks brilliant! I spend all week dreading squats so I guess it would be a good way to kind of face that fear head on. I woudnt fancy deads of bench after squats though.


As commented above, you do adapt and get used to it. I never had any problems with bench after squat, but the first 2 weeks of deadlifts after squats was the most painful experience I've ever had in the gym 

And if you dread squats you will soon get to like them when you do them 3 times a week!


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

'Lostweekend', I completely agree. It's a great routine, but I think it needs to be pointed out that it's not for people with poor recovery powers, like me.

It crippled me, but I didn't have the fractional plates at the time & the 5% increase I was trying to do each week was completely doing me in.

I might go back to it in the future, but my legs are more advanced than any other bodypart so they overtake everything else on this routine. If anyone's squatting needs improving, this is the routine. :biggrin:


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## lostweekend (Feb 25, 2007)

Yes, I certainly found that on occasions I was teetering on the edge of being burnt out. I find this is always a potential problem with full body routines and I have to be very strict to avoid the "Oh, I'll just add in an extra exercise" syndrome. When I did this variation I was eating well which helped me stay on top of the routine.

I also suffered from lack of fractional plates, so when I was approaching my maxs I either didn't increment the weight or incremented and accepted that I may miss the target on the last set by a rep. I found that with this approach in the last 8 weeks I was typically incrementing up only 1/2 the exercises each week, but the next week I was able to increment the ones that hadn't moved (or hit the target on those that fell short the previous week). By being conservative I avoided the burn out and exceeded all my pbs by far.

TBH it was such a delicate balance that I find the dual factor programs (alternating load and deload/intensity periods) easier to follow as they're a bit more prescriptive - although less superior in terms of results!


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## pitprop (Mar 30, 2008)

chrisj22 said:


> Yes mate, it's called 'Madcow' by Bill Starr. I absolutely loved that routine - my strength went up something chronic for me. I was at a sticking point & decided to give this a try.
> 
> In answer to your questions;
> 
> ...


thanks for finally explaining 5x5 training. Gonna give it a go - bored of 4 day split and push/pull routines - cheers


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## Stanco (Jan 7, 2007)

Hey, i did bill stars 5x5 for about 10 weeks and gained a heap of strength and some good muscle. My squat improved by 25 kg's by the end of it.


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## fozyspilgrims (Oct 22, 2007)

Thinking about doing this but there isn't much for back and bi's.


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## Stanco (Jan 7, 2007)

fozyspilgrims said:


> Thinking about doing this but there isn't much for back and bi's.


Doing barbell rows twice a week and deadlifts once a week should be enough yeah? :tongue:

Also, the article says that you can do additional direct arm work on fridays if you want.


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## fozyspilgrims (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

You don't need to do any arm work as Stanco pointed out. The back work in itself will make them grow - mine definitely did.


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

I'm on the second week of this program and loving it so far !!! And there is enough arm / back work mate ..... More you get into this routine the harder it gets


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## Iron19 (Jan 18, 2008)

Thinking about starting this routine next week. What have peoples strength and size improvments been like on it?

Squating three times a week sounds a lot i would of thought that would be overtraining for legs.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

overall volume isnt massive though, so recovery is easy enough

hybrid training plans are great if you dont really have one burning goal to reach


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## Iron19 (Jan 18, 2008)

What do you mean by one burning goal? sorry if i am being stupid.

From what i have read its a good routine for strength and mass and so i thought it might be a good routine to try when bulking.

Its complelty different from any routine i have done before so hopefully it will shock my muscles into further growth after a while of four day splits such as bicep,back etc

Always good to give something new a go.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

If you want pure size, this isnt for you

if you want pure strength, this isnt for you

if you dont mind sacraficing 100% effectiveness on both, this IS for you

you will get bigger on other plans

you will getv stronger on different plans to those

BUT the starr 5 x 5 is a blend of both promoting a little of both BUT not the best of either


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## Iron19 (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks Lostsoul well will give it a go for 6 weeks or so and s=monitor my progresssion from there


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## corbuk (Jan 18, 2008)

i am on this now , and i can say its the best routine i have done ....i when fomr zero sqauts per week to 3 a week and increasing wieght by 2.5% every week so far ...my fav exercise now and i cant beleive i never used to do them.


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

I would say its a very forgiving routine, theres loads of recovery time in there so even if your lifestyle isnt optimal or your diet/suplementation your going to make some progress in strenght & size.

Thats why so many like it, its a userfriendly routine but its sub optimal for pure strenght and same goes for size - its a sort of half way house.

If you want a pure strenght program do 10x3, if you want mostly mass do GVT.


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## Guest (May 18, 2008)

this routine is more for people who have around 1-2 experience in the gym and lift mediocre weights say 100kg squat, 80kg bench, 140-160kg deadlift this is what I think anyway. The heavier the weights, the harder to get results.

Ive done the smolov routine to great effect when I was squatting around 100kg max, now I squat 200kg, I used the smolov and failed in the last week, so it didnt work when I was stronger as well.


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## Lost Soul (Apr 5, 2008)

corbuk said:


> i am on this now , and i can say its the best routine i have done ....i when fomr zero sqauts per week to 3 a week and increasing wieght by 2.5% every week so far ...my fav exercise now and i cant beleive i never used to do them.


With all due respect mate with your current age and stats anything structured will offer progess



> personal stats:
> 
> Age - 15
> 
> ...


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## Guest (May 18, 2008)

Yeah agree with lost soul, at 15 years old, foods more vital to be honest than the best training programme, as long as you squat deadlift and bench press once a week heavy, and increase the weight, you'll be laughing. At 15 definetely keep eating every 3 hours eat clean but dont be afraid to eat pizzas, and other fattyning stuff to a limit, not too much,

calories very important at your age, keep it up, your lifts are strong


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## Iron19 (Jan 18, 2008)

want2getstrong said:


> this routine is more for people who have around 1-2 experience in the gym and lift mediocre weights say 100kg squat, 80kg bench, 140-160kg deadlift this is what I think anyway. The heavier the weights, the harder to get results.
> 
> Ive done the smolov routine to great effect when I was squatting around 100kg max, now I squat 200kg, I used the smolov and failed in the last week, so it didnt work when I was stronger as well.


Whats this smolov routine like mate, have you got a link please?

I'm benching 120 for 6. 160 squat (could prob go a bit deeper though to be honest). 170 dead so this routine should be alright. Good to increase both mass and strength rather than one more than the other.


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

Hard men do Ed Coan routines. :lol: good luck with that though. I never seen such a brutal routine as his.


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## Iron19 (Jan 18, 2008)

Just googled Ed coan routines. from the little i read your right they do sound brutal


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