# "Bulking" on low calories



## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Stats: 32, 6'1, 16stone (up 1st since cycle started) running 850mg test 400mg Tren weekly.

Bear with me with this fellas, but is it possible to build muscle on somewhere in the region of 2500-2800 calories a day, with macros roughly at 350:100 P:C? My diet is very clean, consisting only of lean meat, veg, oats and shakes, with PB, nuts and evoo to top up calories.

The only reason I ask is because I've been trying to do a lean bulk, whilst eating around 3200-3500 calories a day and whilstI've definitely put on some muscle, I've also put on some fat around my chest and love handles.

Is it possible the right balance to slowly build muscle of someone my size could be as low as 2500 calories a day?


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## Fullhouse (Mar 31, 2010)

Mate your maintenance is 2780 you would be losing weight at 2500, aim just over say 2900-3000 and see how you go. Everyone is different at the end of the day do what you think works for you


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2012)

instinct tells me no


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Have heard a few guys saying tren actually built muscle while on low cals.

personally id did **** all for me, But like has already been said everyones different.

If your diet is spot on i guess your really carefull with your macros and portions etc, so why dont you reduce by 200-300 cals for a week then another 200-300 a week later etc??


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm gonna reduce them down and have a play around to see what works. All I've done in the past (which worked for shedding a ton of fat) was go down to about 2000 calories, which did build some muscle, but I wanted to add a bit more this time. I'm gonna aim for 2800 tops and see where that gets me.


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## doylejlw (Feb 14, 2010)

When I bulk I only eat bout 2500 cals, every1 is diff.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

No matter the amount of gear or the type of gear you will not build muscle on calories lower than wht you need to maintain your weight, calories determine if you lose or gain weight....if you are wanting to bulk then you have to eat more calories than you need to maintain your weight on the numbers you have said you are not doing this so you will not gain.


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> No matter the amount of gear or the type of gear you will not build muscle on calories lower than wht you need to maintain your weight, calories determine if you lose or gain weight....if you are wanting to bulk then you have to eat more calories than you need to maintain your weight on the numbers you have said you are not doing this so you will not gain.


Perfect explanation


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

why not forget about adding cals and up protein < of course even protein sources have cals .


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2012)

doylejlw said:


> When I bulk I only eat bout 2500 cals, every1 is diff.


how tall are you and how much do you weigh?


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

ewen said:


> why not forget about adding cals and up protein < of course even protein sources have cals .


In the past I've gone as high as 450g protein a day, but at the expense of carbs


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Dux said:


> In the past I've gone as high as 450g protein a day, but at the expense of carbs


so your gonna up carbs at the expense of protein ?

or up fats ?


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm tempted to drop carbs down to as low as 50g a day and increase protein back to 400g tbh, because I think it's the carbs which put me weight on.

I increased carbs to try and add more muscle initially, but as I mentioned in my initial post, it seems to have put me fat on too.

I don't really know, because I set my "bulking" diet up to increase calories by about 500, which came from carbs and good fats, but put me too much weight on. Maybe I should have started with an extra 200 at first.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Dux said:


> I'm tempted to drop carbs down to as low as 50g a day and increase protein back to 400g tbh, because I think it's the carbs which put me weight on.
> 
> I reduced protein and increased carbs to try and add more muscle initially, but as I mentioned in my initial post, it seems to have put me fat on too.


yeah thats because carbs will store as fat easily .

ausbuilt chill and some others are doing 500g protein 50g carbs per day not sure on fats though might be worth pm`ing one of them .

they also have a good aas cycle going on to , if i was to ever want to cut my fat that is what i would do .


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## doylejlw (Feb 14, 2010)

t4tremendous said:


> how tall are you and how much do you weigh?


5'9 and 15s 4lbs about 12-15 bf. am natty though so if was doing gear would up food bit.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2012)

doylejlw said:


> 5'9 and 15s 4lbs about 12-15 bf. am natty though so if was doing gear would up food bit.


15 stone + (even being 5"9) and you only do 2500 kcal when bulking? f*ck!


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

t4tremendous said:


> 15 stone + (even being 5"9) and you only do 2500 kcal when bulking? f*ck!


It's when I read things like this that confuses me! He's obviously got way more muscle mass than I have being that size, so how can you explain that?


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## doylejlw (Feb 14, 2010)

t4tremendous said:


> 15 stone + (even being 5"9) and you only do 2500 kcal when bulking? f*ck!


That's y say it's totally diff for everyone no1's the same. Highest I've been was 3000 cals and went upto 16s 5, bf went to high tho on that much.


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

Your BMR is actually 2150, I don't know where fullhouse got his figure from but I'm 6'4" and same weight as you at 22 y/o and my BMR is only 2250, so if you did absolutely nothing that's how many calories you would burn, obviously you have to workout your own calories that you use walking/training etc and from there you can make the decision upon what you want to do. I personally 'lean bulk' at around 3500 cals, I am considering upping my cardio though to lean out a little. My protein is around 450 and carbs lowered to 200.

Don't confuse losing fat and retaining muscle with BUILDING muscle. Bodybuilding is an illusion game, you lose fat (weight) but look as though you've gained muscle (weight).


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

F.M.J said:


> Your BMR is actually 2150


So I should be able to build muscle on around 2500-2750 a day going off that BMR figure.


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

Dux said:


> So I should be able to build muscle on around 2500-2750 a day going off that BMR figure.


Well maybe, BMR isn't total calorie expenditure, it doesn't include calorie expenditure from exercise/walking etc. so you will have to work out all of that too. Say if you burned 1000 calories walking each day then 1500 calories in the gym then your maintenance calories become 2150+1000+1500 = 4650 (this is just a hypothetical situation), you would need to then:

Eat 4650 calories to maintain same weight

Eat <4650 calories to lose weight

Eat >4650 calories to gain weight

You tailor the macros so you can manipulate what kind of weight you gain or lose (fat/muscle).

Working out exactly how many calories you need to eat is impossible so a ballpark figure is fine. Just guesstimate how many calories you use and aim your consumption around that and have a play around over the next couple weeks.


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## massiccio (Nov 17, 2010)

I agree with pscarb explanation, on the whole, but wish to add:

perfectly possible to lean bulk on reduced cals, IF : for example one start out of form, with exceeding fat and "low tone" muscles, out of form : then will be possible to add muscle to that frame, measured in lean body mass /muscle (fluids..). One can reduce bodyfat, increase muscle , while on reduced cals.

the total body weight may come down, , or stay roughly the same . It's a temporary effect, for the most, sort of body recomposition.

matter is, for me an increase in lean mass equate to a lean bulk. Results. No matter the total weight on the scale.

one can lose 5 kg and add 1 kg muscle = lean bulk


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

F.M.J said:


> Well maybe, BMR isn't total calorie expenditure, it doesn't include calorie expenditure from exercise/walking etc. so you will have to work out all of that too. Say if you burned 1000 calories walking each day then 1500 calories in the gym then your maintenance calories become 2150+1000+1500 = 4650 (this is just a hypothetical situation), you would need to then:
> 
> Eat 4650 calories to maintain same weight
> 
> ...


That's why I came up with the figure of 2500-2800 or so, because when I go over 3000 I put size on around my belly and chest.


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