# Loosing BF not muscle



## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

I i cut down my carbs and only have them on days i workout like before and after and the rest of the time eat green veg would i lose bodyfat and not muscle. Also up my protein and good fats is this a good method?


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

there is a fixed relationship (lean muscle mass index) between bf and muscle....when you diet without anabolic support (steroids) - muscle is catabolised for energy easier than fat. there are a few tricks you can play to help but gettig ripped without gear is near impossible,.

A very few natutal athletes can do a half decent job but lots of them take a little fast acting gear when on diets, its one of gears great secrets and powers.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

It's all kcals in vs kcals out mate


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

when you restrict carbs - you developed body assumes it is getting difficult to obtain food.......excess muscle is a energy packed luxury it does not require and so it is catabolised for survival BEFORE fat stores which are saved for any ompening famines for survival


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

the best you can do is keep protein high and only lose a lb to 1.5 lb a week with treat days to trick your body into thinking there is plenty of food around and NOT to go into famine mode

if you lose more weight than this a week without gear - you are losing muscle


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## musio (Jan 25, 2008)

So you're saying if you can loose it slow enough, you'll loose fat not muscle or are you saying it's futile, it always happens?


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

musio said:


> So you're saying if you can loose it slow enough, you'll loose fat not muscle or are you saying it's futile, it always happens?


you will have to acceopt without peds - you will lose musce And fat using all the trick of the trade - natty bb'ers hope they get to stage condition with as much as they can - but it is hard and it must be a total fuker....

dietig on ger is hard enough but you kkep most of what you spent all year working and eating for.

I lost 4 stone natty over an 8 month period at 1 to 1.5 lb ew

i was in ok shape and strong but the fat just seemed to chase the muscle in


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Can you gain mass, lose bf on a calorie deficit with AAS?


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## Wevans2303 (Feb 18, 2010)

You have to find a balance with dieting, not so agressive you lose as much muscle as you do fat and don't diet for too long (regardless of small calorie defecits) otherwise you'll get an unfavourable hormoneresponse. I found this out the hard way, I dieted for too long and ended up losing libido badly, and it didn't bounce back as soon as I upper calories so be careful.

I like to use a small calorie defecit for about a month and then have one or two weeks at a slight surplus when I want to lose weight slowly whilst retaining as much lean mass as possible.


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## puurboi (Feb 16, 2011)

With a roid like Dbol could you do a bulking cycle and then the next cycle eat at a cal deficit and retain most of your muscle but lose fat?


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

I just wanna be able to see my six pack, i can see it abit when i tense it but when relaxed its just a flat stomach i think i am about 13%bf. Gonna be running a p-mag cycle soon so wanna do a lean bulk.

Ideally i wanna be as ripped as Nick Auger.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Uriel said:


> the best you can do is keep protein high and only lose a lb to 1.5 lb a week with treat days to trick your body into thinking there is plenty of food around and NOT to go into famine mode
> 
> if you lose more weight than this a week without gear - you are losing muscle


I'd have to disagree.

Provided adequate protein for LBM retention and heavy training (3 x per week max) muscle loss should be fairly minimal. Of course you'll retain (maybe even build) muscle with the use of AAS, but there are certainly plenty of examples out there of people losing a good deal of fat with next to no muscle loss. Plus there's no fixed amount of fat you can lose per week (given the above), and of course it depends on your initial level of fatness - the serverly overweight can lose staggering amounts per week. Finally, the body preferentially burns fatty acids, not amino's, it's only when yo get really lean it's easier for the body to turn to muscle first.


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

So do you think i should become abit leaner before i do a p-mag cycle as i want more size but less fat if that makes sense.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Up to you. It'll definitely help retain mass on a diet, or you could use it to bulk with afterwards.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

would carb cycling no tbe the best diet to run for keeping muscle and losing bf without aas, just going by what ive been reading on it


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

Thats what i am doing now Barsnack, i up my crabs on workout days and off days lower them. Also i have thrown 20 minutes of HIT Cardio in the mix.


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

Just done a few calculations on line and it came back if i want to lose weight should be on like a 1500 cal a day diet. This seems really low or is it right?


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## puurboi (Feb 16, 2011)

killah said:


> Thats what i am doing now Barsnack, *i up my crabs on workout days* and off days lower them. Also i have thrown 20 minutes of HIT Cardio in the mix.


How do you do this? Using the pump to pull grotty birds?


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

killah said:


> Just done a few calculations on line and it came back if i want to lose weight should be on like a 1500 cal a day diet. This seems really low or is it right?


if you're very slender already it's not inconceivable that your daily maintenance calory need is 2000. 500 a day less than that is average for weight loss, so yes, 1500 would be right. It's not much though, so make sure you've done your maths right.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

bayman said:


> I'd have to disagree.
> 
> Provided adequate protein for LBM retention and heavy training (3 x per week max) muscle loss should be fairly minimal. Of course you'll retain (maybe even build) muscle with the use of AAS, but there are certainly plenty of examples out there of people losing a good deal of fat with next to no muscle loss. Plus there's no fixed amount of fat you can lose per week (given the above), and of course it depends on your initial level of fatness - the serverly overweight can lose staggering amounts per week. Finally, the body preferentially burns fatty acids, not amino's, it's only when yo get really lean it's easier for the body to turn to muscle first.


Have you tried it?

It is one thing in theory and "plenty of examples". You try doing it bud.


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

Uriel said:


> Have you tried it?
> 
> It is one thing in theory and "plenty of examples". You try doing it bud.


I agree with Bayman here unfortunately, with adequate protein intake FFM losses should be minimal.

The key here, as you say, is to take your time over the dieting phase if on the leaner side (e.g. If below 10% bodyfat) to prevent excessive reduction in endocrine function (e.g. leptin, testosterone) and maintain lifting intensity. This will help to mitigate losses of FFM.

Obviously the higher your starting bodyfat percentage, the greater your initially weight losses can be without cocomitant FFM losses. Just look at any natural bodybuilder on a contest prep (done well).

You are correct though that PEDs will make the dieting process much easier.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

bayman said:


> I'd have to disagree.
> 
> Provided adequate protein for LBM retention and heavy training (3 x per week max) muscle loss should be fairly minimal. Of course you'll retain (maybe even build) muscle with the use of AAS, but there are certainly plenty of examples out there of people losing a good deal of fat with next to no muscle loss. Plus there's no fixed amount of fat you can lose per week (given the above), and of course it depends on your initial level of fatness - the serverly overweight can lose staggering amounts per week. Finally, the body preferentially burns fatty acids, not amino's, it's only when yo get really lean it's easier for the body to turn to muscle first.


x2 Glad someone said it!


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Lifting for maintaining muscle, and diet for weight loss FTW. (When still in natural range of muscle)

Edit: Along with adequate protein of course.


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## Wardy211436114751 (Jan 24, 2011)

I hope what rick and baymqn have said is true because i plan on trying to get to about 10% bf in a few months whipst maintaining muscle.

I was actually following a guys log on a powerlifting forum who did a keto diet. He was 94kg when he started and got down to 85kg in a few months and was breaking pbs at tgat weight and he said he didnt know what all the fuss abour was and felt strongest he had ever on keto.

What do we think of keto diets for dieting natty?


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

well good luck on the diets people- i stand by all i have said, we'll agree to disagree.


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

maybe someone like Glen Dandbury could comment.

I Personally know a couple of decent BNBF competitors who hold decent muscle mass and I know what they do so I base i beliefs on that (and my own 2 natty diets)


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

greenspin with all due respect - how much muscle are you holding pre and post diet mate? - you look like a twiglet in you avy lol


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

for a start as a natty - you can only go to your genetic maximum muscluar limit (not beyond) and at that level - your body is ALWAYS trying to catabolize muscle so I don't see how it only does it "when really lean"

IMO - there is some bad biology in some responses buy - i'll bail now as belief and bro science rules the day lol


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Uriel, I know I am not big mate! I don't claim to be, nor do I try to be. From my research I have come to my conclusions (They may change, I'm not being stubborn, just going by what is current). And also by my experience, granted I have not been in the game as long as you, and if what you say works for you, then that is what matters. For me, I followed the classic route for a couple of years, was unhappy and things seemed far to overcomplicated. The way I do things now completely contradicts most commonly held beliefs about bodybuilding in the media and gym. I am gaining best I have even done, and am happy too.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Also, I hear what you are saying about all is broscience and belief now. And what you are saying is tried and tested, so to speak. But that is not to say it's the only, or optimum way. And to be honest, it's relatively complex and restricting, when IMO it need not be. But, if one wants to follow it, then there's no problem. It's just another option, just one I choose not to indulge.

Skinny as I am...


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

Been eating less last 2 days and already feel smaller lol, cant wait to get fat down abit then jump on the p-mag.


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## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

puurboi said:


> How do you do this? Using the pump to pull grotty birds?


No just call your Mrs for help


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

i did my natty diets with heavy weight, high protein diets, decent supplementation, very slow fat loss......although i never lost that much strenghth...and was in decent shape after 4 stone weight loss.....i could not hold the muscle.

It was agreat learning experience.

Diets on gear are a piece of wee in comparison


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Uriel said:


> i did my natty diets with heavy weight, high protein diets, decent supplementation, very slow fat loss......although i never lost that much strenghth...and was in decent shape after 4 stone weight loss.....i could not hold the muscle.
> 
> It was agreat learning experience.
> 
> Diets on gear are a piece of wee in comparison


I thought u was bailing lol


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

fatstuff said:


> I thought u was bailing lol


you don't alwaays have to be so fuking accurate, particular and pedantic you sh1thouse lol


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Uriel said:


> you don't alwaays have to be so fuking accurate, particular and pedantic you sh1thouse lol


It's spelt 'always'


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## RickMiller (Aug 21, 2009)

Wardy21 said:


> I hope what rick and baymqn have said is true because i plan on trying to get to about 10% bf in a few months whipst maintaining muscle.
> 
> I was actually following a guys log on a powerlifting forum who did a keto diet. He was 94kg when he started and got down to 85kg in a few months and was breaking pbs at tgat weight and he said he didnt know what all the fuss abour was and felt strongest he had ever on keto.
> 
> What do we think of keto diets for dieting natty?


Not much benefit over a standard diet, the additional catecholamine release will help with making PRs in the gym but you'll get that just from the calorie deficit, look into fasting methods if you want this benefit without eating steak, eggs and butter all day


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