# IGF2 LR3 ?



## hardgain (Nov 27, 2009)

Just wondered if anyone has ran this? I have used IGF1 during a Blast along with HGH and insulin protocol but have never seen IGF2 until recently,

not much info out there from what I can see apart from odd comments like running igf1 and 2 together is supposed to give good results but no proof or anything really said more on it?


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## Dave_shorts (Jan 4, 2015)

Never did but curious to hear more about it


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

there is no actual proof IGF-1LR3 or DES actually works so i doubt this will either


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## hardgain (Nov 27, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> there is no actual proof IGF-1LR3 or DES actually works so i doubt this will either


 When I tried igf before I'd kind of inherited 2 vials of it, used it with other compounds on a 4 week experiment so couldn't say whether it independently did anything for me or not haha. Planning another 4 week run of insulin an high dose GH soon an didn't know if it was worth throwing this in too.

the protocol I followed used insulin pre workout along with GH then igf post.

would you say from your experience igf is just a complete waste of time then? Or would there be any benefits from running it?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes unless you are using increased (which you are not) then its a total waste of money


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## strecharmstrong (Oct 29, 2013)

Igf1 lr3 has such a low binding affinty for the igfbp(binding protiens) it dosnt even make it into the cells... so is a complete waste of time unless its vicrin or increlex wich comes in a 40ml bottle and cost about £5,000


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> there is no actual proof IGF-1LR3 or DES actually works so i doubt this will either


 When you say work what you do you mean by that? Because when synthetic growth hormone is taken it reproduces igf-1 from the liver which then sends out pulses of igf-1. Igf-1 will Lower blood sugar slightly while signaling your body to produce new muscle cells and grow existing ones while increasing nutrient uptake into the muscles. So igf-1 lr3 when injected will increase the basal rate of your igf-1 giving you all of the benefits mentioned above. So if igf-1 doesn't actually work then neither does synthetic gh..


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Marcus G said:


> When you say work what you do you mean by that? Because when synthetic growth hormone is taken it reproduces igf-1 from the liver which then sends out pulses of igf-1. Igf-1 will Lower blood sugar slightly while signaling your body to produce new muscle cells and grow existing ones while increasing nutrient uptake into the muscles. So igf-1 lr3 when injected will increase the basal rate of your igf-1 giving you all of the benefits mentioned above. So if igf-1 doesn't actually work then neither does synthetic gh..


 thank you for the lesson in what GH (both natural and synthetic does when it comes to IGF-1) it doesn't reproduce IGF-1 it causes the release of IGF-1 from the liver, its not as simple as you release IGF-1 as the main driving force behind muscle gain is MPS not exactly IGF-1 (IGF-1 lowers MPB)

IGF-1LR3 does not use the same pathways needed for the proliferation of satellite cells in fact it does nothing that yu have said you THINK it does.....

just to add your point here "signaling your body to produce new muscle cells and grow existing ones while increasing nutrient uptake into the muscles" Proliferation is the term you are looking for and IGF-1 natural or synthetic does not grow existing muscle cells (this is what steroids do) and it certainly does not increase nutrient uptake into cells(This is what Insulin does(Please Please do not tell me IGF-1 is the same as Insulin))

the only synthetic version of IGF-1 that works is Incralex although at £750 minimum for a weeks worth it is not really viable, the only thing you will get with LR3 and DES is a pump.


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> thank you for the lesson in what GH (both natural and synthetic does when it comes to IGF-1) it doesn't reproduce IGF-1 it causes the release of IGF-1 from the liver, its not as simple as you release IGF-1 as the main driving force behind muscle gain is MPS not exactly IGF-1 (IGF-1 lowers MPB)
> 
> IGF-1LR3 does not use the same pathways needed for the proliferation of satellite cells in fact it does nothing that yu have said you THINK it does.....
> 
> ...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

No i said it doesn't grow *Existing muscle cells *it creates new muscle cells there is no hormone that does both in the human body.......

yes it has some similarities to Insulin but not even Insulin drives Carbs (Glucose)in to muscle cells what insulin does (Apart from lower MPB) it transports them to the cell if they get in or not depends on the individuals sensitivity (Insulin Sensitivity) IGF-1 is not insulin to say it does sort of the same job is incorrect and misleading plus over simplifying of the overall process.

i would like to read the data you have for IGF-1 role in increasing the size of existing muscle cells though......

the easiest and most simplest way to increase IGF-1 in the body is to eat in a surplus, the moment you restrict calories your IGF-1 levels will fall....


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> thank you for the lesson in what GH (both natural and synthetic does when it comes to IGF-1) it doesn't reproduce IGF-1 it causes the release of IGF-1 from the liver, its not as simple as you release IGF-1 as the main driving force behind muscle gain is MPS not exactly IGF-1 (IGF-1 lowers MPB)
> 
> IGF-1LR3 does not use the same pathways needed for the proliferation of satellite cells in fact it does nothing that yu have said you THINK it does.....
> 
> ...


 Drives and transports aren't that much different the fact that it does take glucose to the cell is key and if the user is on gh then they will be let in as gh suppresses insulin


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Marcus G said:


> Drives and transports aren't that much different the fact that it does take glucose to the cell is key and if the user is on gh then they will be let in as gh suppresses insulin


 no no no no.......

firstly its is very different if they are driven into the cells depends on your sensitivity to insulin, insulin just transports glucose and fats to the cells....

WOW GH suppresses insulin really?? GH actually makes you more insulin resistant, but lets look at what you have said, you talk about needing insulin to drive (your words) nutrients into cells but then you say to take GH as this lowers insulin? but dont you need insulin to drive nutrients into cells?


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> no no no no.......
> 
> firstly its is very different if they are driven into the cells depends on your sensitivity to insulin, insulin just transports glucose and fats to the cells....
> 
> WOW GH suppresses insulin really?? GH actually makes you more insulin resistant, but lets look at what you have said, you talk about needing insulin to drive (your words) nutrients into cells but then you say to take GH as this lowers insulin? but dont you need insulin to drive nutrients into cells?


 Yes gh is the counter hormone to insulin. That's why many gh long time users have high blood sugar.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Marcus G said:


> Yes gh is the counter hormone to insulin


 please explain how you mean and the link to IGF-1 that started this debate....

just to add in my opinion Insulin is certainly not a counter hormone to GH but please if you have data i am keen to read it


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> please explain how you mean and the link to IGF-1 that started this debate....
> 
> just to add in my opinion Insulin is certainly not a counter hormone to GH but please if you have data i am keen to read it


 If you look into gh and the effects of insulin I think you'll be astonished on the findings, gh raises blood sugar by lowering insulin that's why it's advised not to to eat after injecting gh as the carbs spike insulin which then blunts gh...


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## hardgain (Nov 27, 2009)

Would there be any benefit to running igf just purely on the premise to increasing insulin sensitivity?

I followed mutants protocol before running GH at high dose with insulin pre workout then taking IGF-1 LR3 post work out..

i was thinking of following this again hence why I was looking at IGF-1 originally. But now debating whether it's worth dropping the igf even though the last run I got great results from the compounds altogether


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

hardgain said:


> Would there be any benefit to running igf just purely on the premise to increasing insulin sensitivity?
> 
> I followed mutants protocol before running GH at high dose with insulin pre workout then taking IGF-1 LR3 post work out..
> 
> i was thinking of following this again hence why I was looking at IGF-1 originally. But now debating whether it's worth dropping the igf even though the last run I got great results from the compounds altogether


 what I think is more beneficial is to use small does of slin with your gh shots so you take 3-4 ius of gh and 1-3 units of insulin multiple times per day to get more of a constant and stable pule of gh and igf-1 release. also you shouldn't need any carbs with the insulin doing this protocol. After 4 weeks I'd drop the insulin and do the igf-1 for a further 4 then switch back to slin. If you want to re-sensitise your self to insulin a low carb diet or even a short dnp cycle can achieve this very quickly.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Marcus G said:


> If you look into gh and the effects of insulin I think you'll be astonished on the findings, gh raises blood sugar by lowering insulin that's why it's advised not to to eat after injecting gh as the carbs spike insulin which then blunts gh...


 wrong, synthetic GH is all ready formed you cannot blunt this as there is no release to be blunted, i honestly thought you had something to give to this debate but this is the biggest myth concerning GH there is and has been debunked a million times......

now i think you must be getting mixed up with peptides or any compound that actually creates a release/pulse of natural GH (which synthetic GH you inject does not) as consuming either carbs or fats around the injection time will blunt the release......



Marcus G said:


> what I think is more beneficial is to use small does of slin with your gh shots so you take 3-4 ius of gh and 1-3 units of insulin multiple times per day to get more of a constant and stable pule of gh and igf-1 release. also you shouldn't need any carbs with the insulin doing this protocol. After 4 weeks I'd drop the insulin and do the igf-1 for a further 4 then switch back to slin. If you want to re-sensitise your self to insulin a low carb diet or even a short dnp cycle can achieve this very quickly.


 synthetic IGF-1 be that LR3 or DES does not work it does not follow the needed pathways to work all you get is a pump this is the lower affinity to the insulin receptor and the increased NOS that brings.....

as stated above you are getting mixed up with synthetic GH which is all ready GH and peptides which cause a pulse of GH when you are advising people not to eat.....

you have no understanding of insulin if you are of the thinking that insulin causes desensitisation of insulin, then advising DNP really lol


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

hardgain said:


> Would there be any benefit to running igf just purely on the premise to increasing insulin sensitivity?
> 
> I followed mutants protocol before running GH at high dose with insulin pre workout then taking IGF-1 LR3 post work out..
> 
> i was thinking of following this again hence why I was looking at IGF-1 originally. But now debating whether it's worth dropping the igf even though the last run I got great results from the compounds altogether


 IGF-1LR3 does not work believe me there is not one study to show it does and several very highly educated individuals agree with me on this including Jordan Peters, Scott Stevenson (PHD) John Meadows the list is endless

new data has shown the worst time to use synthetic insulin is around a training session what Marcus is sporting is Bro science things that has been debunked many many times......if you take insulin before a workout you stop the body from using insulin stored in the liver (not a good thing) insulin post workout is not needed either as the training session will release GLUT4 (the insulin transporter) adding insulin at this time holds no additional value


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## hardgain (Nov 27, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> IGF-1LR3 does not work believe me there is not one study to show it does and several very highly educated individuals agree with me on this including Jordan Peters, Scott Stevenson (PHD) John Meadows the list is endless
> 
> new data has shown the worst time to use synthetic insulin is around a training session what Marcus is sporting is Bro science things that has been debunked many many times......if you take insulin before a workout you stop the body from using insulin stored in the liver (not a good thing) insulin post workout is not needed either as the training session will release GLUT4 (the insulin transporter) adding insulin at this time holds no additional value


 Many thanks Paul, guess I just wanted to clarify in my own mind that there was no benefit at all.

I shall re-look into my plans. Thanks again


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## hardgain (Nov 27, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> IGF-1LR3 does not work believe me there is not one study to show it does and several very highly educated individuals agree with me on this including Jordan Peters, Scott Stevenson (PHD) John Meadows the list is endless
> 
> new data has shown the worst time to use synthetic insulin is around a training session what Marcus is sporting is Bro science things that has been debunked many many times......if you take insulin before a workout you stop the body from using insulin stored in the liver (not a good thing) insulin post workout is not needed either as the training session will release GLUT4 (the insulin transporter) adding insulin at this time holds no additional value


 Many thanks Paul, guess I just wanted to clarify in my own mind that there was no benefit at all.

I shall re-look into my plans. Thanks again


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> wrong, synthetic GH is all ready formed you cannot blunt this as there is no release to be blunted, i honestly thought you had something to give to this debate but this is the biggest myth concerning GH there is and has been debunked a million times......
> 
> now i think you must be getting mixed up with peptides or any compound that actually creates a release/pulse of natural GH (which synthetic GH you inject does not) as consuming either carbs or fats around the injection time will blunt the release......
> 
> ...


 I never advised anything I gave my opinion. Firstly using insulin does desensitise insulin receptors. And dnp has been shown countless times to be safe at small doses I belive Dan Dushanbe also preached this. Thirdly injecting gh and eating carbs does blunt gh


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> No i said it doesn't grow *Existing muscle cells it creates new muscle cells *there is no hormone that does both in the human body.......


 Sorry to interrupt you guys lol. Not sure if i'm being stupid but what do people mean by this? AAS don't make new cells, they just repair, so what do people mean when they say IGF creates NEW cells


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

hardgain said:


> Many thanks Paul, guess I just wanted to clarify in my own mind that there was no benefit at all.
> 
> I shall re-look into my plans. Thanks again


 i do agree that using small amounts of insulin away from training if you are going to use insulin is the way forward but its not as simple as inject and hey presto IGF is raised (i know you dont think that)



Marcus G said:


> I never advised anything I gave my opinion. Firstly using insulin does desensitise insulin receptors. And dnp has been shown countless times to be safe at small doses I belive Dan Dushanbe also preached this. Thirdly injecting gh and eating carbs does blunt gh


 so how does injecting a compound that is all ready Growth Hormone get blunted? so your saying that if i inject 4iu of GH and eat pasta only 2iu will be absorbed?? how is that possible

Now if we was talking about peptides that actual create a pulse of GH then you would be correct as Carbs (and fats) can blunt that release, this does not happen with synthetic GH



NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> Sorry to interrupt you guys lol. Not sure if i'm being stupid but what do people mean by this? AAS don't make new cells, they just repair, so what do people mean when they say IGF creates NEW cells


 IGF-1 (natural) creates new Satellite (Muscle cells) through a complex process beginning with Proliferation of the damaged cells in the muscle.......


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## Marcus G (Aug 4, 2013)

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> There is a nice bit of of information on igf-1 lr3 here https://www.igf1lr3.com
> 
> So it is doesnt bid to the igfbp's but does the the igf type 1 receptor and has a a higher level of activation of intracellular signaling, which is responsible for promoting cell proliferation and the inhibition of apoptosis


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

that is all true but do you really believe that what you buy on the net is actually receptor grade IGF-1LR3? i can guarantee no one can give any evidence to IGF-1LR3 building new cells apart from the saying they get a great pump.

i have used LR3 and DES extensively many years ago when it hit the market and you can be certain it does not do what many believe it does, to many people are blinded by the fact all they have to do is inject a compound that costs pennies yet costs pharmaceutical companies thousands of dollars to buy and they are huge.......

i have used LR3 with and without GH, with and without insulin and it adds nothing to the physique.......there is a reason there is no prescribed (pharmaceutical) LR3 yet there is a prescribed IGF-1 (Incralex)


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## Dave_shorts (Jan 4, 2015)

Marcus G said:


> what I think is more beneficial is to use small does of slin with your gh shots so you take 3-4 ius of gh and 1-3 units of insulin multiple times per day to get more of a constant and stable pule of gh and igf-1 release. also you shouldn't need any carbs with the insulin doing this protocol. After 4 weeks I'd drop the insulin and do the igf-1 for a further 4 then switch back to slin. If you want to re-sensitise your self to insulin a low carb diet or even a short dnp cycle can achieve this very quickly.


 Jesus christ.

That's all!!


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## Dave_shorts (Jan 4, 2015)

Marcus G said:


> I never advised anything I gave my opinion. Firstly using insulin does desensitise insulin receptors. And dnp has been shown countless times to be safe at small doses I belive Dan Dushanbe also preached this. Thirdly injecting gh and eating carbs does blunt gh


 Dan Duchaine also died from kidney problems and was pretty wreck less with drugs at times. HaHa. Ito like following the preaching(as you put it) of scientology.......it's just dangerous!


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Marcus G said:


> NoGutsNoGloryy said:
> 
> 
> > There is a nice bit of of information on igf-1 lr3 here https://www.igf1lr3.com
> ...


 Just looked at that site and why on earth would they add

*
What is the Amino Acid Sequence of IGF-1 LR3?
*

The amino acid sequence (three letter) is Met-Phe-Pro-Ala-Met-Pro-Leu-Ser-Ser-Leu-Phe-Val-Asn-Gly-Pro-Arg-Thr-Leu-Cys-Gly-Ala-Glu-Leu-Val-Asp-Ala-Leu-Gln-Phe-Val-Cys-Gly-Asp-Arg-Gly-Phe-Tyr-Phe-Asn-Lys-Pro-Thr-Gly-Tyr-Gly-Ser-Ser-Ser-Arg-Arg-Ala-Pro-Gln-Thr-Gly-Ile-Val-Asp-Glu-Cys-Cys-Phe-Arg-Ser-Cys-Asp-Leu-Arg-Arg-Leu-Glu-Met-Tyr-Cys-Ala-Pro-Leu-Lys-Pro-Ala- Lys-Ser-Ala

Not like I'm going to be repeating that anytime in my life...


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## Cryptonian (Jun 29, 2018)

LOLLLL PsCArb the moderator your all wrong, I couldnt be more surprise of reading you being so sure about your information because its so wrong and so easy to counter, the following info are easely findable in scientifical labo NCBI lOL, you dont know much about peptides biorelation which is a big logical interpolarisation/relation (im quebec french so sorry bout my cheap writing but just wanted to light up you guys of the beauty of the logical chimical homeostasis of god itself so , igf1 is for cell maturation, its what make us aged in fact, it counter block MGF which is for proliferation of new cell which is numb by IGF. Gh with lot of carbs and oxygen aerobic energy cycle create IGF release and on the other hand MGF is release when the anaerobic energy cycle is use (when the body is ketogenic or kinda on the second battery burning fats instead of oxidating xcarbs (maybe this isnt exactly right but I guess the whole concept is kinda simple. Carbs make us age, which is the elevation of IGF which block the duplication of the cells and promote maturaton of first muscles then organes of digestion and heart. This is why ppl eating keto are way less aging over time than ppl eating high amount of carbs. And yeah gh is counter by insulin because insulin elevates somaostatin which block gh activation, this is why we use cjc-1295 and for some other reason for sure. so dieting and timing is a must with peptides cycle ... so its all I wanted to say I wont argu or even come back to this post, take it or dump it idc lol but all i can say is you guys are reading to much without understanding the logical relation of biochimical peptides. Think twice when you read because lot of info on forum isnt right, NBCI or any other medical lab is the only uncontestable data


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## Cryptonian (Jun 29, 2018)

im sure most of you guys talk like big boy but in reality none of you are in real shape or have never compete in high level bodybuilding, I'm a IFBB training and compete at national before concentrating on my business and on my pros, my wife is the next Miss Olympia Bikini, Lauralie... and im considere as one of the rare scientific trainer specialize in electrolytes homeostasis how to keep drinking water and being at your best life shape on the stage K-Na-Mg-Ca-H2O ar the true secret of bodybuilding, not clen and tren tho, the ones who think its cool to promote clen and tren are d**** honestly


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

@Pscarb, check this thread for a laugh.


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

dtlv said:


> @Pscarb, check this thread for a laugh.


 Tag me next time you want a laugh ,you won't get one of pscarb :thumb


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

vetran said:


> Tag me next time you want a laugh ,you won't get one of pscarb :thumb


 I promise you Paul does laugh at least once a year. It hasn't happened yet in 2018 so he's due. This might be the thread.


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

This you?

Maxime Caron

Didn't Lauralie place 15th last year?

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BUu0dDzD5KP/?hl=en%26taken-by=lauraliechap_ifbbpro


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