# Off Season Test enth/Tren ace/Equipoise/Insulin/GHRP2/MOD GRF/HGH cycle



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

I am going to run a progress journal of my off season this year. The course I am

going to be running is:

2100mg test e/week

700mg tren ace/week

1050mg equipoise/week

20mg tamoxifen/day

10iu HGH post training

Insulin on training days (pre training initially until foods increase)

3x 100mcg ghrp2&mod grf/day

I will be using:

Chemical Solutions AAS

Kefei HGH

Novorapid insulin


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

I had my first shot of 1ml test 300 1ml tren ace 100 .5ml equipoise 300 on Monday, I will be injecting the same amounts ed

I will introduce Insulin, HGH and GHRs on Monday (28october)

My morning weight on Monday was 92.5kg.

Initial nutrition. Foods are likely to increase along the way but starting Monday my macros will be:

Training days: 175carbs 330protein 145fat

Non-Training: 125carbs 285protein 135fat

Insulin is only going to be used pre workout at the beginning. 10iu 20mins pre workout

Training will be high intensity. One working set per exercise.

I will be using an upper/lower split. Training 2 on 1 off with 2 days off after 8 sessions have been completed.


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

Subbed - looking forward to this mate sounds a deadly off season.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Awesome buddy, Really looking forward to it!


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Change of Macros

Training days: 175carbs 380protein 180fat

Non-Training: 125carbs 325protein 170fat


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Sounds good. Count me in. Will follow


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Slight change to HGH dosing also. Going to split the doses to 5x2iu eod


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## The Regiment (Oct 7, 2013)

Subbed - the only thing that I would change would be using Arimidex instead of Tamoxifen throughout the cycle.

Good luck mate, you are going to love it :thumb:


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have arimidex. I just didnt want to kill all the oestrogen. I may run half a tab eod as well as the tamox. Im also running 25mcg t3 ed


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## GodOfHormones (Oct 20, 2013)

How come you're using so little carbs with Tren?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ive used tren and grown with less carbs. Tren wont burn glycogen if calories are high enough which they are because of the fats. My offseason is following straight on from pre contest. Carbs will increase. My nutrition just phases in and out. There is no bookended off season or pre contest. Macros increase then decrease.


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## GodOfHormones (Oct 20, 2013)

Fair enough, clearly you know what works for you, look a beast mate. Will try and follow log!


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Good luck, will pop in every now and then. Any pics?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

tof89 said:


> I had my first shot of 1ml test 300 1ml tren ace 100 .5ml equipoise 300 on Monday, I will be injecting the same amounts ed
> 
> I will introduce Insulin, HGH and GHRs on Monday (28october)
> 
> ...


Good luck mate,pre workout slin is deffo the way to go.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> Good luck, will pop in every now and then. Any pics?


How do I put pics up?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)




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## Kaiz (Nov 3, 2012)

tof89 said:


> How do I put pics up?


When your writing text in the text box, hover your mouse over the fifth link after the smiley.. it will say insert image


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Can use the peps and HGH more efficiently will post tonight, also with that much test AI is a must

20mg nolva ED

1mg adex E3D/EOD be ok


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Thats what im doing.

And in terms of the peps im running at saturation dose. Followed 20mins later with hgh.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

This my my dosing schedule:

40 mins pre meal 1: 100mcg ghrp6 & 100mcg mod grf 1-29

20 mins pre meal 1: 3iu hgh

45 mins pre training: 100mcg ghrp6 & 100mcg mod grf 1-29

30 mins pre training: 4iu HGH

15 mins pre training: insulin

40 mins pre meal 6: 100mcg ghrp6 & 100mcg mod grf 1-29

20 mins pre meal 6: 3iu HGH

HGH will only be used on training days


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## Alexg218 (Sep 11, 2011)

looking good bud what catagory you going for? similar cycle to mine i dont go crazy on AAS though hate jagging oils all the time...subbed and good luck!


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Just competed at u90kg. Will have to see how the off season goes. Should be in the u100s next year though


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

How come the change from GHRP-2 you originally stated to GHRP-6?


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Ive used tren and grown with less carbs. Tren wont burn glycogen if calories are high enough which they are because of the fats. My offseason is following straight on from pre contest. Carbs will increase. My nutrition just phases in and out. There is no bookended off season or pre contest. Macros increase then decrease.


Finally someone not caught up in this tren & carbs crap.. just for this post im in.

Your cycle is well thought out anyway and the results will tell.

Are you B&C?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Finally someone not caught up in this tren & carbs crap.. just for this post im in.
> 
> Your cycle is well thought out anyway and the results will tell.
> 
> Are you B&C?


I think the whole tren and carbs issue is influenced by those that read GH15 as he states on tren you can pretty much get away with earing anthing and you wont gain BF. I know my body though

Sorry dude B&C?


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

tof89 said:


> I think the whole tren and carbs issue is influenced by those that read GH15 as he states on tren you can pretty much get away with earing anthing and you wont gain BF. I know my body though
> 
> Sorry dude B&C?


Yes same here.. i track my macro's and i just don't see it.

Most people who believe the tren & carbs fat burning effects don't know there ED macros let along over a full cycle and dont provide any pictures to back up there claims either.

By B&C i mean blast & cruise, stay on gear off cycle but at a lower dose like 150mg PW, or do you PCT after cycle ?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Yes same here.. i track my macro's and i just don't see it.
> 
> Most people who believe the tren & carbs fat burning effects don't know there ED macros let along over a full cycle and dont provide any pictures to back up there claims either.
> 
> By B&C i mean blast & cruise, stay on gear off cycle but at a lower dose like 150mg PW, or do you PCT after cycle ?


Thats very true mate. I havent done a pct. Just gone straight in to this course. I dont think youncan suturate receptors. Your body just makes more. And ive cycled what im using too. This has always worked in the past. Am taking some time off after this though.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Thats very true mate. I havent done a pct. Just gone straight in to this course. I dont think youncan suturate receptors. Your body just makes more. And ive cycled what im using too. This has always worked in the past. Am taking some time off after this though.


Ah right blast to blast then 

Take a start picture and a few as your going.. im sure you will anyway.

You know you dont have to wait 40 mins to eat after a pep shot, 30 minutes is enough you don't even have to wait that long if you don't want to i read one of dats post and he preferred 30 minutes but would settle for 20 minutes.

Everything looks good to me keeps us updated...


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Ah right blast to blast then
> 
> Take a start picture and a few as your going.. im sure you will anyway.
> 
> ...


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Scott9585 said:


> How come the change from GHRP-2 you originally stated to GHRP-6?


I dont think ive ever stated Ghrp 6. The title of the thread says ghrp2. If I ever wrote 6 it was a mistake. Intenions were always for 2. Much better peptide than ghrp6


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

tof89 said:


> I dont think ive ever stated Ghrp 6. The title of the thread says ghrp2. If I ever wrote 6 it was a mistake. Intenions were always for 2. Much better peptide than ghrp6


That's what I thought mate but the dosing schedule you put says 6. Confused me


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Ahh sorry mate. Typo. Definitely using ghrp2


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Day 1 of using everything today and back to the gym. Been on cycle for a week now. Todays weight AM was 96.8kg. Just had my first lots of peps. Waiting to eat


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

Any cardio during this off season mate?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Not currently mate. Chances are it will be going in at some point. Not too much though


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Very interesting cycle mate, where did you place in the U90kg's?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Just outside the top 6. Feedback from judges was great and put me about 7th. If I was a touch drier from the back (carb load issues) id have been well inside the top 6. Out of 19 guys im pleased with that in only my second year competing. And my first year out of the Juniors. Was the inters too btw. In to the opens next year


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## methos (Dec 23, 2008)

Subbed mate, very interesting to follwo and best of luck!


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## The Regiment (Oct 7, 2013)

tof89 said:


> Day 1 of using everything today and back to the gym. Been on cycle for a week now. Todays weight AM was 96.8kg. Just had my first lots of peps. Waiting to eat


How was using the insulin? Did you go straight into the 10iu pre workout or did you take a slightly lower dosage today?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

The Regiment said:


> How was using the insulin? Did you go straight into the 10iu pre workout or did you take a slightly lower dosage today?


Went straight in at 10iu. No issues. Had an awesome pump. Have to see how it goes over the next week or so. Check the weight increase


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## The Regiment (Oct 7, 2013)

tof89 said:


> Went straight in at 10iu. No issues. Had an awesome pump. Have to see how it goes over the next week or so. Check the weight increase


Good to hear man. What did your intra workout shake consist of after taking the slin? I usually dose post workout but I'm looking into pre workout dosing for my next bulk.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

100g vitargo. 20g pepto pro 15g essential amino acids 1 serving cell mass. Followed post workout with a whey isolate and AD syntha charge


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Have you already used all of these peptides before or is this the first time?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Bull Terrier said:


> Have you already used all of these peptides before or is this the first time?


Used ghrp6 and cjc w/o dac 2 years ago

Running everything in conjunction is a first


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

How about the slin and hgh?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Todays morning weight 225lbs (102kg) had my weekly cheat meal (power hour) last night. My appetite is through the roof. Could have just kept eating. Been back in the gym two days. Strength seems very good. 140kg widowmaker squats last night for 20reps. Very pleased the way things are going


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## The Regiment (Oct 7, 2013)

tof89 said:


> Todays morning weight 225lbs (102kg) had my weekly cheat meal (power hour) last night. My appetite is through the roof. Could have just kept eating. Been back in the gym two days. Strength seems very good. 140kg widowmaker squats last night for 20reps. Very pleased the way things are going


That weight gain is really impressive, well done so far


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## geordie_paul (Aug 12, 2007)

tof89 said:


> This my my dosing schedule:
> 
> 40 mins pre meal 1: 100mcg ghrp6 & 100mcg mod grf 1-29
> 
> ...


how do you schedule carbs pre workout/ intra WO with the slin mate?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

I have one shake lasting 15mins pre to finish with 100g vitargo. 20g peptopro 15g eaa and 1 serving of cellmass. Followed by 50g of isolate post workout with synthacharge. Then a protein carb meal an hour post training


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Couple of shots from today. Weighed in at the gym at 103kg today


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## Wasp (Nov 1, 2009)

tof89 said:


> View attachment 139292
> View attachment 139293
> 
> 
> ...


Says you're a few stone over the max end of your ideal weight.

I'd start cutting.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Wasp said:


> Says you're a few stone over the max end of your ideal weight.
> 
> I'd start cutting.


Haha. I know. Think I might aim for my ideal weight of 10stone


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Be very interested to see how you grow Mate!

Subbed


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

RowRow said:


> Be very interested to see how you grow Mate!
> 
> Subbed


Cheers bud. Makes two of us. Really going to push everyday for maximum gains


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Feeling constantly pumped at the moment. Walking around at 227ish. Scales have hit 231 at night. Still a few issues with excess subq water due to my post show feasts. Its clearing up a bit though.



View attachment 139441


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Having to make a conscious effort today to start flushing this water out. 40lb weight game looks impressive but its really not as this rebound has me looking so out of condition. Loading water from now to flush the water out


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Having to make a conscious effort today to start flushing this water out. 40lb weight game looks impressive but its really not as this rebound has me looking so out of condition. Loading water from now to flush the water out


Yeah you've gained nearly a stone in 6 days.. That can't be good mate, most of your gear hasn't kicked in yet either, have you got adex to hand?

When was the comp?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Yeah you've gained nearly a stone in 6 days.. That can't be good mate, most of your gear hasn't kicked in yet either, have you got adex to hand?
> 
> When was the comp?


Ive gained 3stone in 14 days mate. Comp was 2 weeks ago, waters starting to move though


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## Sweat (Jun 24, 2012)

Will follow this, looking solid buddy.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

In mate....looks good


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Weight in pictures is 228lbs


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## Spragga (Feb 16, 2009)

Subbed mate....... Best of look to you..... :thumb:


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

What's your meal plan like


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mark2021 said:


> What's your meal plan like


These are my macros:

Training days: 175carbs 380protein 180fat

Non-Training: 125carbs 325protein 170fat

I eat either pro fat meals or pro carb meals. I don't mix fats and carbs at meal times


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

tof89 said:


> View attachment 139487
> View attachment 139488
> View attachment 139489
> 
> ...


where do you train in Lincoln mate ? i'm moving to cherry Willingham soon, was thinking of the Yarborough leisure centre on the ermine or laurie carrs gym, evolution is it ?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Paz1982 said:


> where do you train in Lincoln mate ? i'm moving to cherry Willingham soon, was thinking of the Yarborough leisure centre on the ermine or laurie carrs gym, evolution is it ?


I train at fitspace mate. My sponsors own a supplement shop inside and its £10 a month. Got everything you need and more. It gets full of students and people are disrespectful by not putting anything away. It's horrible at times but its home to me. I manage to always get my training done


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

tof89 said:


> These are my macros:
> 
> Training days: 175carbs 380protein 180fat
> 
> ...


What's some of the meals you have?

Interested In this


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

tof89 said:


> I train at fitspace mate. My sponsors own a supplement shop inside and its £10 a month. Got everything you need and more. It gets full of students and people are disrespectful by not putting anything away. It's horrible at times but its home to me. I manage to always get my training done


is that a tenner a month to everyone ?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Paz1982 said:


> is that a tenner a month to everyone ?


Tenner a month if you sign up for 12months, £19 a month if you pay month to month rolling contract. Dumbells go up to 60s, ive had 700kg on the leg press so plenty of plates, should check it out mate. Like I said it can be super frustrating at times with some morons. Guess that's life


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mark2021 said:


> What's some of the meals you have?
> 
> Interested In this


I have a selection of foods to pick from. Meal one this morning was 6eggs, 50g chicken, 50grams cashew nuts, greens.

Meal 6 last night was 175g oats and 20g honey with a 50:50 whey:casein shake 50g protein.

My meals vary constantly, as long as I use my allowed food choices then I just have to have the right amounts to meet my certain macros for the meal


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

tof89 said:


> Tenner a month if you sign up for 12months, £19 a month if you pay month to month rolling contract. Dumbells go up to 60s, ive had 700kg on the leg press so plenty of plates, should check it out mate. Like I said it can be super frustrating at times with some morons. Guess that's life


yeah i'll defo be taking a look at that


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Ive gained 3stone in 14 days mate. Comp was 2 weeks ago, waters starting to move though


Jesus mate big rebound, your still looking lean in your pictures though..


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

In...you should not need more than ten mins after peps to run gh according to most recent studies on dat's website..worth a thought..


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Dead lee said:


> Jesus mate big rebound, your still looking lean in your pictures though..


Yeah big rebound, been nailing the water and vit c today, its starting to move slowly, 4 more litres before bed should hopefully see a lot flush out during the night. Its not healthy, giving me major back pumps, id rather drop 10lbs, im not overly fussed about the scales, especially if its unwanted water weight. Got 24 weeks left to just slowly add quality muscle. Probably going to start adding some cardio back in. Probably 3xwingates every non training day


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## greekgod (Sep 6, 2009)

tof89 said:


> I have a selection of foods to pick from. Meal one this morning was 6eggs, 50g chicken, 50grams cashew nuts, greens.
> 
> Meal 6 last night was 175g oats and 20g honey with a 50:50 whey:casein shake 50g protein.
> 
> My meals vary constantly, as long as I use my allowed food choices then I just have to have the right amounts to meet my certain macros for the meal


are u eating yr carbs at night? are u taking pre/ pwo carbs and then running carbs at night as i read in yr peps u running insulin as well?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

biglbs said:


> In...you should not need more than ten mins after peps to run gh according to most recent studies on dat's website..worth a thought..


Ahh cheers mate, been leaving it 15 minutes at the minute, happy with the protocol but its good to know if pushed for time. Unless that 5 minute delay will be negative?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

greekgod said:


> are u eating yr carbs at night? are u taking pre/ pwo carbs and then running carbs at night as i read in yr peps u running insulin as well?


Yes eating carbs at night on non-training days. I use carbs peri workout. and then a pro carb meal 1hr post. Only using insulin pre workout at the moment


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

tof89 said:


> Ahh cheers mate, been leaving it 15 minutes at the minute, happy with the protocol but its good to know if pushed for time. Unless that 5 minute delay will be negative?


Ok mate...it is said to piggyback at ten..however I will say I tried both and saw no advantage either way.but I was onbig cut...just the most recent info I know to help your choices buddy..lookin very well I may add


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

biglbs said:


> Ok mate...it is said to piggyback at ten..however I will say I tried both and saw no advantage either way.but I was onbig cut...just the most recent info I know to help your choices buddy..lookin very well I may add


Thanks, yeah I read the exogenous hgh rides the natural pulse of growth. The research I read was 15-20mins. I not how clued up dat is though so i'll probably shoot for just 10 mins  appreciate the input there bud. And thank you, hopefully make a nice transformation to challenge the open classes next year


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

tof89 said:


> Thanks, yeah I read the exogenous hgh rides the natural pulse of growth. The research I read was 15-20mins. I not how clued up dat is though so i'll probably shoot for just 10 mins  appreciate the input there bud. And thank you, hopefully make a nice transformation to challenge the open classes next year


A pleasure..I will keep my nose in...I recon you will go far..


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Thanks, yeah I read the exogenous hgh rides the natural pulse of growth. The research I read was 15-20mins. I not how clued up dat is though so i'll probably shoot for just 10 mins  appreciate the input there bud. And thank you, hopefully make a nice transformation to challenge the open classes next year


Iv started shooting at 10 myself after reading dats site last week

Dat knows what he's talking about when it comes to HGH & peps.. he is a wealth of knowledge

Have you signed up to his site? if not you should but you will need to ask his permission as it's a private no bull**** site.


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## Casper13 (Sep 20, 2013)

Hardcore mate, good luck


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## fil0101 (Feb 27, 2012)

In mate, looking good in pics n will watch n read with interest as i will soon be running peps+hgh+slin soon.

I too read take peps then 10 mins later hgh and im going to be doing pre slin


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## fil0101 (Feb 27, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> Can use the peps and HGH more efficiently will post tonight, also with that much test AI is a must
> 
> 20mg nolva ED
> 
> 1mg adex E3D/EOD be ok


How do you mean more efficiently? Thanks Mark


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

fil0101 said:


> How do you mean more efficiently? Thanks Mark


Oh throw in GHRP and GHRH at saturation dose ( work it out properly to your bodyweight instead of just 100kg -100mcg

Shoot them then wait 10 mins then shoot GH 1-4iu , can do this 3 hours apart as many times as you like in a day


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## fil0101 (Feb 27, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> Oh throw in GHRP and GHRH at saturation dose ( work it out properly to your bodyweight instead of just 100kg -100mcg
> 
> Shoot them then wait 10 mins then shoot GH 1-4iu , can do this 3 hours apart as many times as you like in a day


Thanks Mark at the moment im just doing peps at 100mcg x 3 a day but will work out proper sat doses before adding hgh


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> Oh throw in GHRP and GHRH at saturation dose ( work it out properly to your bodyweight instead of just 100kg -100mcg
> 
> Shoot them then wait 10 mins then shoot GH 1-4iu , can do this 3 hours apart as many times as you like in a day


This is what I am and was ready doing?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

The water appears to be moving. Heaviest morning weight thus far though.

226lbs


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Post cheat meal 231.6lbs


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## Peacock7 (Mar 10, 2013)

tof89 said:


> I am going to run a progress journal of my off season this year. The course I am
> 
> going to be running is:
> 
> ...


providing you gear isn't bunk then you should look like arnie with all that.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Pictures from the british finals


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Peacock7 said:


> providing you gear isn't bunk then you should look like arnie with all that.


Dont think it quite works like that mate...


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## Peacock7 (Mar 10, 2013)

tof89 said:


> Dont think it quite works like that mate...


it doesn't, i was trying to say 2 grams of test is way overkill, there's a point where adding more does nothing to results, you have to use the minimum you can with the greatest effect.

More isn't better is what i'm trying to say dude.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Peacock7 said:


> it doesn't, i was trying to say 2 grams of test is way overkill, there's a point where adding more does nothing to results, you have to use the minimum you can with the greatest effect.
> 
> More isn't better is what i'm trying to say dude.


How will you quantify that statement if asked to? I reckon more gear = more gains.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Peacock7 said:


> it doesn't, i was trying to say 2 grams of test is way overkill, there's a point where adding more does nothing to results, you have to use the minimum you can with the greatest effect.
> 
> More isn't better is what i'm trying to say dude.


Testosterone is one of the only drugs where more is better, yes there is an optimal amount gains vs side effects. But fortunately I don't suffer from sides. Everybody has that amount where growth is noticed and every individual is different. Try telling the guys that run 5g a week that 2grams is overkill. There are some drugs that going over a certain amount has no real benefits. Testosterone is not one of those

'Basically, the more Testosterone Enanthate you use (and this holds true for almost all steroids), the more gains you'll get! Of course, that the previous statement will ruffle some feathers in the "less is more" club, but that's simply too bad; more Testosterone Enanthate = more muscle, more strength, more size, and less fat'

Quoted from a study on testosterone


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Testosterone is one of the only drugs where more is better, yes there is an optimal amount gains vs side effects. But fortunately I don't suffer from sides. Everybody has that amount where growth is noticed and every individual is different. Try telling the guys that run 5g a week that 2grams is overkill. There are some drugs that going over a certain amount has no real benefits. Testosterone is not one of those
> 
> 'Basically, the more Testosterone Enanthate you use (and this holds true for almost all steroids), the more gains you'll get! Of course, that the previous statement will ruffle some feathers in the "less is more" club, but that's simply too bad; more Testosterone Enanthate = more muscle, more strength, more size, and less fat'
> 
> Quoted from a study on testosterone


There are a lot more people running big doses than we think. I am on 3g Test En and 2g Mast En per week at the moment, weight has gone from 118KG to approx 128KG in 4 weeks, strength up, feel massive and pumped at all times. I reckon more gear = more gains = more possibility of sides.

Strongmen and powerlifters can and do run insane cycles e.g. 1g Test per day etc.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> There are a lot more people running big doses than we think. I am on 3g Test En and 2g Mast En per week at the moment, weight has gone from 118KG to approx 128KG in 4 weeks, strength up, feel massive and pumped at all times. I reckon more gear = more gains = more possibility of sides.
> 
> Strongmen and powerlifters can and do run insane cycles e.g. 1g Test per day etc.


I know plenty of people running high doses totalling 5-7g per week in total. That's some awesome weight gain dude. Ive been to seminars where ex pros talk about putting in 10ml vials in one go. Running silly amounts of dbol and oxy together, told about one pro who used to iv 32iu of growth a night.


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## fil0101 (Feb 27, 2012)

tof89 said:


> I know plenty of people running high doses totalling 5-7g per week in total. That's some awesome weight gain dude. Ive been to seminars where ex pros talk about putting in 10ml vials in one go. Running silly amounts of dbol and oxy together, told about one pro who used to iv 32iu of growth a night.


Wow that is insane amounts lol, and we worry about doing the odd gram


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

The test is definitely getting to work now. Training is going great. Pumps are insane and painful. Deadlifts this evening so ill be able to gauge my strength. Been hammering the water and ive managed to drop about 3/4lbs and looking a little tighter. No more swollen ankles 

Morning weight was 224.8


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

tof89 said:


> Ive gained 3stone in 14 days mate. Comp was 2 weeks ago, waters starting to move though


F#ck! :thumbup1:


----------



## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

Huntingground said:


> How will you quantify that statement if asked to? I reckon more gear = more gains.


I agree, more gear = more gains, BUT- more side affects. Each individual needs to find the right balance for them.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Elvis82 said:


> I agree, more gear = more gains, BUT- more side affects. Each individual needs to find the right balance for them.


Correct, see my following post to the one you quoted


----------



## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Elvis82 said:


> I agree, more gear = more gains, BUT- more side affects. Each individual needs to find the right balance for them.


I have found that after a point I get no additional sides than the previous dosage but gains also holt.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

You can actualy reach the point of needing no food,you just assimilate calories from the massive amounts of oil jabbed in,or fillers in orals,it is rumoured after 20g gear per week even oxygen becomes redundant and nitrous oxide is the required gas to breath,like a top fuel dragster



Huntingground said:


> There are a lot more people running big doses than we think. I am on 3g Test En and 2g Mast En per week at the moment, weight has gone from 118KG to approx 128KG in 4 weeks, strength up, feel massive and pumped at all times. I reckon more gear = more gains = more possibility of sides.
> 
> Strongmen and powerlifters can and do run insane cycles e.g. 1g Test per day etc.


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## Elvis82 (Mar 23, 2012)

RowRow said:


> I have found that after a point I get no additional sides than the previous dosage but gains also holt.


If you eat like @Huntingground that may change. He's greedy :thumb:


----------



## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Elvis82 said:


> If you eat like @Huntingground that may change. He's greedy :thumb:


This is true,how many battleships can you build without steel?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Managed to shed some water. Still well over 220lbs feeling happy with condition. Body has levelled off. Time to push offseason in to full swing


----------



## no1dnbhead (Mar 20, 2011)

I am interested in how you get on. But by the looks off your pictures your going to go far anyway


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Elvis82 said:


> If you eat like @Huntingground that may change. He's *fat* :thumb:


Edited for you mate


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Had a stomach bug for the last few days. Down to 218lbs but in reality has probably done me.more good than bad. Before really pushing the food I needed my body to balance itself. The water has gone. The back pumps are gone so time to push this off season in to full swing


----------



## big steve (May 8, 2011)

very interesting reading mate, keep up the good work


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Chelsea said:


> Edited for you mate


Guilty as charged


----------



## 89GTA (Apr 30, 2012)

I'll be watching this one with interest. Good luck mate!


----------



## besa (Jan 12, 2009)

sub'd mate looking good i will be running similar doses for the first time soon should be interesting.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Strength is really starting to push on now. Adding weight and reps every session. The log book is being smashed every session. Legs yesterday hit 10 reps of 4 and a half plates on smith squats. Ass2grass 3 second eccentrics. Completed 23 bodyweight reps on glute ham raise as a 6x4 muscle round. Did 12 reps 165kg dips (bodyweight + 3plates) added an extra weight plate and 5 reps to low cable rows. Happy the way things are going. Still ticking over in the nutrition side. Almost ready for a huge push to really slam on the off season muscle


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)




----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Arms measuring 18 7/8 inches cold first thing am. Current weight 225.7lbs. Chest measuring 48 inches. Legs 26.5 inches. Waist 34 inches


----------



## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

tof89 said:


> Testosterone is one of the only drugs where more is better, yes there is an optimal amount gains vs side effects. But fortunately I don't suffer from sides. Everybody has that amount where growth is noticed and every individual is different. Try telling the guys that run 5g a week that 2grams is overkill. There are some drugs that going over a certain amount has no real benefits. Testosterone is not one of those
> 
> 'Basically, the more Testosterone Enanthate you use (and this holds true for almost all steroids), the more gains you'll get! Of course, that the previous statement will ruffle some feathers in the "less is more" club, but that's simply too bad; *more Testosterone Enanthate = more muscle, more strength, more size, and **less fat*'
> 
> Quoted from a study on testosterone


Can I ask what study that is..do you have a refernce for it? I'm particularly curious abotu the 'less fat' bit. I'm definitely with the less is more club but i'm not about to preach it to others.

Personally; based on all the available evidence (of any quality) I think length of time on is more important than dose. Massive doses don't necessarily equal greater sides - but longer time on does. It's also well evidenced that you get diminishing returns for longer periods on; and that's not because of receptor saturation...receptors don't get saturated and blocked per se. It's because of receptor desensitisation and the only cure for that is time off.

But anyway - i'm just curious about the study you quoted - and also subbing because that's an interesting cycle and you seem to have thought this through very carefully.


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

kuju said:


> Can I ask what study that is..do you have a refernce for it? I'm particularly curious abotu the 'less fat' bit. I'm definitely with the less is more club but i'm not about to preach it to others.
> 
> Personally; based on all the available evidence (of any quality) I think length of time on is more important than dose. Massive doses don't necessarily equal greater sides - but longer time on does. It's also well evidenced that you get diminishing returns for longer periods on; and that's not because of receptor saturation...receptors don't get saturated and blocked per se. It's because of receptor desensitisation and the only cure for that is time off.
> 
> But anyway - i'm just curious about the study you quoted - and also subbing because that's an interesting cycle and you seem to have thought this through very carefully.


It was taken from steroid.com. The steroid profile section for testosterone. It shows the studies with graphs etc if you want to take a look


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## The Regiment (Oct 7, 2013)

tof89 said:


> It was taken from steroid.com. The steroid profile section for testosterone. It shows the studies with graphs etc if you want to take a look


Any updates? Forgotten about us? :laughing:


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

I haven't forgotten about you guys. Just been steady really. After all the water settled I was around 218lbs morning weight. Now sitting at 228lbs morning weight. Hitting 234/235 in the evenings. Strength climbing nicely. All lifts increasing every time I do them. Condition isnt bad at all. Just repeating my principles on a daily basis. Upping foods a little each week and progessing well. Im very happy


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)




----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Sitting at 230.6lbs am. Going to bed around 238lbs. Strength still flying up


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

tof89 said:


> View attachment 142960
> 
> 
> Sitting at 230.6lbs am. Going to bed around 238lbs. Strength still flying up


Good going mate, awesome weight increase.

Any changes to cycle at all?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Chelsea said:


> Good going mate, awesome weight increase.
> 
> Any changes to cycle at all?


Npp has just been swapped in for tren.


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

tof89 said:


> Npp has just been swapped in for tren.


For any reason or purely just for compound change?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Chelsea said:


> For any reason or purely just for compound change?


Been on Tren for a while now so just changing compounds up. Ill want to be using tren ace during prep again too so have a nice clear out of it now


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

tof89 said:


> View attachment 142606
> View attachment 142607
> View attachment 142608


Great progress there matey!


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## bumont (Aug 18, 2012)

tof89 said:


> Been on Tren for a while now so just changing compounds up. Ill want to be using tren ace during prep again too so have a nice clear out of it now


How would you rate insulin? I've used it briefly but never for sustained periods, never saw much from it personally.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

tof89 said:


> View attachment 142606
> View attachment 142607
> View attachment 142608


Does the water gain ever bother you or do you ever look in the mirror and find yourself unhappy with the loss of definition? This is the thing I struggle with most.

Looking a lot bigger though mate. Legs are awesome.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

amazing mate truly full of envy  bravo !


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Lol listen to this lot, they will make you think that you can get to Dorian Yates size on 500mg test.

And it's funny because these guys probably have less muscle than a pigeons toe.

With the lack of decent logs,Its good to see someone with muscles on a bodybuilding website, welcome 

How old are you btw?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

bumont said:


> How would you rate insulin? I've used it briefly but never for sustained periods, never saw much from it personally.


Personally I think the science behind insulin tells the story. Its the most anabolic hormone. If you couple it with the correct protocol and the correct nutrition around the time of administration then you will recover much faster and therefore grow much faster. Some people have varying sensitivity levels of course so finding a dose that is optimal is key


----------



## Guest (Dec 29, 2013)

tof89 said:


> Personally I think the science behind insulin tells the story. Its the most anabolic hormone. If you couple it with the correct protocol and the correct nutrition around the time of administration then you will recover much faster and therefore grow much faster. Some people have varying sensitivity levels of course so finding a dose that is optimal is key


Great post.


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Bensif said:


> Does the water gain ever bother you or do you ever look in the mirror and find yourself unhappy with the loss of definition? This is the thing I struggle with most.
> 
> Looking a lot bigger though mate. Legs are awesome.


Loss of definition doesnt bother me. Excessive fat gain bothers me but my diet is in check. There is no point in gaining weight for weights sake but in order to maximise growth staying lean and in super condition isnt going to happen. Im a bodybuilder though. I work towards competitions always looking to improve. Im not after that, always lean, model type look. Look at all the top guys in the off season. They lose condition considerably. Just comes with the territory


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

cas said:


> Lol listen to this lot, they will make you think that you can get to Dorian Yates size on 500mg test.
> 
> And it's funny because these guys probably have less muscle than a pigeons toe.
> 
> ...


Hi mate. I think there is a naivety and people just dont want to think that you have to use big doses to grow at a great rate. Im 24 years old.


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## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

tof89 said:


> Loss of definition doesnt bother me. Excessive fat gain bothers me but my diet is in check. There is no point in gaining weight for weights sake but in order to maximise growth staying lean and in super condition isnt going to happen. Im a bodybuilder though. I work towards competitions always looking to improve. Im not after that, always lean, model type look. Look at all the top guys in the off season. They lose condition considerably. Just comes with the territory


Fair play to you mate. I wish I wasn't so concerned with the water around my ankle, naval and jaw lol. I'm super OCD like that.

Have been and will continue to follow your thread!


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## Mack10 (Apr 22, 2011)

Any more updates?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Mack10 said:


> Any more updates?




Im in the process of dropping all dosages down. Going down to 500mg test per week. Currently on 500mg npp and just over a gram of test. Strength is still soaring. Im around 240lbs in the evening. 233lbs when I wake up. Everything feels like its thickening up.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Gear down this week to 1.25 test and 500 npp

Weight is 235lbs upon wake


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Had my bodyfat checked. Sitting at 13% which gives me a lean mass of 216lbs and at 3% bf puts me at 223lbs. I competed at 189lbs in October at 3% bodyfat. As a guide ive put on around 25/30lbs lean mass in 4 months. Off season going very well


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Been running just 500mg test/ week for a couple of weeks now. Cruising before I start prep in 8 weeks. Dropped foods a bit. Dropped some water too. Just trting to recomp at the minute. 244lbs in the morning. Im 7lbs down on my max morning weight. Water and a bit of fat hopefully


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

Any updates now you've started prep toft?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

For the last 2 months I've been recomping, cruising on about 500mg test a week. Got down from 251lbs to 241lbs. Started prep 2 weeks ago, running 230mg test prop and 180mg npp eod. Down from 241 to 235.2lbs. Looking to just chip away and lose 1-2 lbs a week.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

A few pics from recomp to prep start


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## bumont (Aug 18, 2012)

tof89 said:


> View attachment 150604
> View attachment 150605
> View attachment 150606
> View attachment 150607
> ...


How did you find the combination of peps/insulin? thinking of running GHRP2/GRF year round and using slin in short intervals during bulking. Did you stay any leaner using the peps etc?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

I ran the peptides until christmas. Stayed lean. Then once I stopped I gained a fair amount of fat. Just one of those learning curves. Back on the peptides now and have been for 4 weeks. They are great. Definitely worth running


----------



## bumont (Aug 18, 2012)

tof89 said:


> I ran the peptides until christmas. Stayed lean. Then once I stopped I gained a fair amount of fat. Just one of those learning curves. Back on the peptides now and have been for 4 weeks. They are great. Definitely worth running


Good to hear, will be adding them for sure.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Just a quick update to tell everyone where im at. 8 and a half weeks out from my show (pics are from 9 weeks out-228lbs in the pics)

Currently running 150mg of pro chem prop ed and 100mg pro chem tren ed. Switched to the new pro chem at the start of prep and I have gained quite a decent amount of muscle during it. Hopefully still add a bit more running in to the show. T3 is at 50mcg ed and taking 2iu hgh ed.

Had skinfolds done on monday:

Bicep 2.2mm

Tricep 2.8mm

Subscap 9mm

Suprailliac 4mm

The calculation puts body fat at 6.74% always be accuracy issues but I know that the calipers have me around the 3% mark when im stage ready so im well on track. Considering im still 30+lbs heavier than last years stage weight im very happy


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## fil0101 (Feb 27, 2012)

tof89 said:


> I ran the peptides until christmas. Stayed lean. Then once I stopped I gained a fair amount of fat. Just one of those learning curves. Back on the peptides now and have been for 4 weeks. They are great. Definitely worth running


Hi mate, looking huge in new pics.

What hgh you running and who's peps do you use?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

pics from 8 weeks

I use original hyge hgh and toms peptides


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

fil0101 said:


> Hi mate, looking huge in new pics.
> 
> What hgh you running and who's peps do you use?


I use original hyge hgh and toms peptides


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## no1dnbhead (Mar 20, 2011)

Are You still using insulin?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

no1dnbhead said:


> Are You still using insulin?


No im not at the minute


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

So coming up to 7 weeks out. Just want to explain the changes that have been made between off season and comp prep. Everything im doing/using

Im currently weight training twice a day mon-thurs. Once on a Friday and once on a Sunday with Saturday off.

Macros for double session days are now at: 375p 290c 0f

Macros for single session days are now at: 290p 180c 0f

Off days are: 250p 150c 0f

(these have all reduced steadily over the last month or so)

Im running: 150mg pro chem test prop ed, 100mg pro chem tren ace ed (the new pro chem is the best gear ive touched) 2iu hgh and 50mcg t3 (dosed in the middle of the night after a few hours sleep which is showing huge benefits over my previous dosing methods) 25mcg aromasin and 100mcg clen 2 days on 2 days off.

I am also using metformin and matador to massively increase insulin sensitivity as this pretty much disappeared in the off season. Bringing my resistance way down ive started getting lean very fast whilst still growing.

On sundays I am skiploading. Aiming to get 1000g carbs in during a 6 hour window. This is really speeding up my metabolism and the results during the week are staggering. The fat is falling off me and I still feel as if im growing. Strength is also still way up.

Training intensity and recovery is at an all time high and im super excited as to what I can bring in 7 weeks time.


----------



## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

tof89 said:


> So coming up to 7 weeks out. Just want to explain the changes that have been made between off season and comp prep. Everything im doing/using
> 
> Im currently weight training twice a day mon-thurs. Once on a Friday and once on a Sunday with Saturday off.
> 
> ...


Been waiting for that update Toft! Thanks mate.

The diet.. Could you explain a bit about that. 0g fat. How come? I've always read to increase fats when cutting and decrease carbs so interested to know the reasoning.


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Scott9585 said:


> Been waiting for that update Toft! Thanks mate.
> 
> The diet.. Could you explain a bit about that. 0g fat. How come? I've always read to increase fats when cutting and decrease carbs so interested to know the reasoning.


Just a different approach this year that seems to be working. I think higher fats and nutrient timing with carbs is a great way of getting lean and its also the best way to go for a beginner or as start because it will help get insulin sensitivity back on track. Once you've done all the hard work there though you can use more carbs. You will stay full. I think its easy to over diet on high fats and lose muscle mass. Carbs seem to have a greater metabolic effect when pulling them out. As in drop 50g and you will loser more fat than pulling the calorie equivalent of fat. Plus you get double the food with carbs. So there is a greater amount of food to take away from. I am a fan of both approaches. I always use the higher fats and timed carbs with clients until I feel they are at a point where carbs over fats will benefit. Pretty easy to swap in and out and transition between the two  the no fats has only just come about, they have been pulled. Reduced the cals a fair bit but kept the carbs in there for fullness. Its definitely working.

Luke Sandoe said in his last blog that high fat mod carbs and nutrient timing etc looks great on paper. Which it does and is perfect for people wanting to get in shape. I just think during a contest prep for a bodybuilder you get more control over the carbs. Plus at some point you have to load them back in. You want your body to be used to dealing with them for an effective load. Everything ive said could be utter bollocks but its my take on it. Try something and judge the results


----------



## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

tof89 said:


> Just a different approach this year that seems to be working. I think higher fats and nutrient timing with carbs is a great way of getting lean and its also the best way to go for a beginner or as start because it will help get insulin sensitivity back on track. Once you've done all the hard work there though you can use more carbs. You will stay full. I think its easy to over diet on high fats and lose muscle mass. Carbs seem to have a greater metabolic effect when pulling them out. As in drop 50g and you will loser more fat than pulling the calorie equivalent of fat. Plus you get double the food with carbs. So there is a greater amount of food to take away from. I am a fan of both approaches. I always use the higher fats and timed carbs with clients until I feel they are at a point where carbs over fats will benefit. Pretty easy to swap in and out and transition between the two  the no fats has only just come about, they have been pulled. Reduced the cals a fair bit but kept the carbs in there for fullness. Its definitely working.
> 
> Luke Sandoe said in his last blog that high fat mod carbs and nutrient timing etc looks great on paper. Which it does and is perfect for people wanting to get in shape. I just think during a contest prep for a bodybuilder you get more control over the carbs. Plus at some point you have to load them back in. You want your body to be used to dealing with them for an effective load. Everything ive said could be utter bollocks but its my take on it. Try something and judge the results


Awesome. Thanks. Makes sense and can certainly see the benefits. Not something I'm gonna attempt, just caught my eye as being different! Sounds good and the results speak for themselves really, fat is flying off! How's training with Joe going? Enjoying the new environment?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)




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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

So this is where I am. 8 days out from show time. Sitting at 225lbs (first thing am) in the pictures.

Currently running 100 masteron prop and 100 tren ace a day. Letro is in at 2.5mg a day and proviron at 100mg a day. I have reintroduced clen today and running at 80mcg a day. I will have my last shot of growth soon. Been running 8iu a day for the last 12 days. But now need the water to come off so will be dropping it out.


----------



## trapover (Dec 26, 2007)

tof89 said:


> So coming up to 7 weeks out. Just want to explain the changes that have been made between off season and comp prep. Everything im doing/using
> 
> Im currently weight training twice a day mon-thurs. Once on a Friday and once on a Sunday with Saturday off.
> 
> ...


Wow, just trying to catch up with all of this...

Training twice a day?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

trapover said:


> Wow, just trying to catch up with all of this...
> 
> Training twice a day?


Yes ive trained twice a day all the way through prep. Well twice a day mon-thurs once on fri sat off and once on sun

Its really worked at ramping the metabolism. Ive been able to eat a lot more food and also think ive added a lot of muscle during prep


----------



## trapover (Dec 26, 2007)

tof89 said:


> Yes ive trained twice a day all the way through prep. Well twice a day mon-thurs once on fri sat off and once on sun
> 
> Its really worked at ramping the metabolism. Ive been able to eat a lot more food and also think ive added a lot of muscle during prep


I've got doms just reading that! Lol

How much cardio is involved?


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

trapover said:


> I've got doms just reading that! Lol
> 
> How much cardio is involved?


My recovery has been insane throughout prep. Never feel sore. This allows for less cardio to be done. I like to do cycle sprints several times a week. Cardio only takes 5/10 minutes though

Sometimes ill throw in some liss with power walks


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## lachu543 (Dec 2, 2013)

Nice shape! 

What was the longest time when You stay with Tren without break from it?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

lachu543 said:


> Nice shape!
> 
> What was the longest time when You stay with Tren without break from it?


Ive been on tren for about 10 weeks this prep. Ive run it a lot longer in the past though


----------



## lachu543 (Dec 2, 2013)

Thanks 

Can You write something from Your experience in my topic and give some advices?  http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/277190-my-time-muscle-gains-opinions.html


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## trapover (Dec 26, 2007)

tof89 said:


> My recovery has been insane throughout prep. Never feel sore. This allows for less cardio to be done. I like to do cycle sprints several times a week. Cardio only takes 5/10 minutes though
> 
> Sometimes ill throw in some liss with power walks


Wish I could recover like that! Just out of curiosity, how old are you?


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

i like youbeing honest on your dosages. it shows that you can't just be a ripped 100kg on 500mg of gear. people never consider that the guys competing at over 100kg are on at least 3 grams++ and hgh, slin etc.

i notice this now, i am around 8&bf at 182cm and about 85kg. i can constantly improve my shape on 500-700mg if gear but no real massive size gains or anything. granted i am only on masteron and a low dose hgh for health reasons. if i added s bit of tren maybe i could gain another few kgs. but to get to 100kg with 5% bf i think i would have to use a lot more and since i do not tolerate many compounds for various reasons, there is really no way for me to get there without ****ing up my health.

if i can get to 90kg at 6-7% i would be happy but this would also take either a few years or some additions to the stack. i tolerate nandrolone well, but i don't like the temporary puffy look. may try transdermal tren by olympus and maybe transdermal trest as well, but cannot run any orals, no boldenone, no test (immunological reasons).


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> i like youbeing honest on your dosages. it shows that you can't just be a ripped 100kg on 500mg of gear. people never consider that the guys competing at over 100kg are on at least 3 grams++ and hgh, slin etc.
> 
> i notice this now, i am around 8&bf at 182cm and about 85kg. i can constantly improve my shape on 500-700mg if gear but no real massive size gains or anything. granted i am only on masteron and a low dose hgh for health reasons. if i added s bit of tren maybe i could gain another few kgs. but to get to 100kg with 5% bf i think i would have to use a lot more and since i do not tolerate many compounds for various reasons, there is really no way for me to get there without ****ing up my health.
> 
> if i can get to 90kg at 6-7% i would be happy but this would also take either a few years or some additions to the stack. i tolerate nandrolone well, but i don't like the temporary puffy look. may try transdermal tren by olympus and maybe transdermal trest as well, but cannot run any orals, no boldenone, no test (immunological reasons).


ive found that I respond best around 2-2.5g in total. But at the same time my nutrition is always on point and I train my ass off. Hitting total muscle failure around 12 times per bodypart. Although ive increased volume recently to around 20 points of failure just for an increase in energy expenditure. Ive been as low as hitting failure 4times a bodypart and the increased frequency this volume allowed for showed great growth. If everything else is perfect. The drugs will make a big difference. I wouldn't touch anything transdermal


----------



## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

trapover said:


> Wish I could recover like that! Just out of curiosity, how old are you?


Im 25 and a half years old mate. Ive just set everything up to facilitate recovery. Food vs volume vs frequency is all set up to allow me to train how I do


----------



## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

tof89 said:


> ive found that I respond best around 2-2.5g in total. But at the same time my nutrition is always on point and I train my ass off. Hitting total muscle failure around 12 times per bodypart. Although ive increased volume recently to around 20 points of failure just for an increase in energy expenditure. Ive been as low as hitting failure 4times a bodypart and the increased frequency this volume allowed for showed great growth. If everything else is perfect. The drugs will make a big difference. I wouldn't touch anything transdermal


the transdermal idea is only in order to use the trendione, ph to trenbolone. a german competitor used the oral version of it, he is around 124 kg and he said he liked it. transdermal should be absorbed a bit better. i am afraid to run injectable tren because i had bad psychological problems on it in the past and i think it may have to do with heavy metal contamination. also a transdermal would be out of the body quickly.

but i am right about dosage. so many people claim they use only 750mg and sometimes some dbol tabs or something and are weight over 100kg. it annoys me because i think people shoudl be honest about these things, so everyone can understand better and not feel bad because they are not growing as fats as their idol, who clais to be on 500 while he actually left out a zero.

i think for me 1 gram mast prop with 700mg npp and 3-4 i.u. hgh would be very effective. i have a thing about keeping my stomach dry though and nandrolone alwas draws some water. on the other hand, combined with hgh and some t3 maybe it would be a good idea. pretty expensive, but 4 months of that should get me to a nicely shaped 90kg i think. i am already very strong for my size so the only mising factor is an anabolic and the hgh will potentiate everything in terms of recovery etc. i can feel it in the gym, strength endurance, recovery. but i might try the transdermal tren first...


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

How did you find the insulin pre workout? notice any big increase in gains? Im going to trying it in for my bulk just pre workout on training days along side peps 3 x per day.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

funkdocta said:


> How did you find the insulin pre workout? notice any big increase in gains? Im going to trying it in for my bulk just pre workout on training days along side peps 3 x per day.


Insulin was greay but eventually I built up too much of a resistance. Next year ill be dosing 45iu every 4th day and using metformin to maintain my insulin sensitivity. I think this protocol will work much better.


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## Nara (Mar 29, 2014)

How tall are you?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

in the meantime have a look at berberine, it has proven itself as effective as metformin in studies. some products that contain it and other insulin sensitivity improving agents are burn24 (my favourite), glycobol, recompadrol etc.

sometimes it is possible to do things naturally without a medication. the burn24 for example has the advantage that it also burns lower stomach fat for me and despite making me incredibly hungry hinders any fat gain, because the bergenin preevents insulin to store fat in the cells. this one could be an interesing addition to an insulin protocol.


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## MRENIGMA (Apr 29, 2011)

This is epic, I read the whole lot, what an eye opener, my aim is to get a physique like yours....hmmm...starting to think it may not be possible on 500test 400deca and some dbol lol

I couldn't run that if I wanted, I think genetics also plays a part in how much gear you can handle, I couldn't imagine how bad my acne would be on a cycle like that 

You competing at the welsh champs then?


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

MRENIGMA said:


> This is epic, I read the whole lot, what an eye opener, my aim is to get a physique like yours....hmmm...starting to think it may not be possible on 500test 400deca and some dbol lol
> 
> I couldn't run that if I wanted, I think genetics also plays a part in how much gear you can handle, I couldn't imagine how bad my acne would be on a cycle like that
> 
> You competing at the welsh champs then?


No the welsh are tomorrow. Im competing at leeds. Next Saturday.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> in the meantime have a look at berberine, it has proven itself as effective as metformin in studies. some products that contain it and other insulin sensitivity improving agents are burn24 (my favourite), glycobol, recompadrol etc.
> 
> sometimes it is possible to do things naturally without a medication. the burn24 for example has the advantage that it also burns lower stomach fat for me and despite making me incredibly hungry hinders any fat gain, because the bergenin preevents insulin to store fat in the cells. this one could be an interesing addition to an insulin protocol.


I use matador as a supplement for it. But nothing will come close to metformin. Id rather use the pharmaceutical products. You use prohoromones over pharmaceutical products. Which are less effective but can be more harmful on the body.


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## tof89 (Jul 6, 2013)

Nara said:


> How tall are you?


Im 5'9"


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