# Insulin - Am I really sensitive?



## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

I tried insulin for the first time today and it didnt go too great. Injected 5ius, waited 10 mins and then had a shake with 35g dextrose 30g oats, 50g whey. With it being my first time i was a little nervous so took a bg reading at 30mins and had a reading of 3.9, panicked, had 3 dextrose tablets then waited til the 1hr mark and had a second shake of 40g oats and 50g whey. check bg at the hour mark and it had started to climb to 4.5 and then at the 90 mins mark it was 5.5 so all went the right way in the end. The only hypo symptoms i had was a very mild headache

Tried a second shot pwo, again 5ius but this time I had my shake with 50 grams of dextrose and 50g whey thinking the sugar would get my bg up til my second shake. Felt nothing til the 45 min mark when i got the headache again and felt a bit tired. Checked bg and it was 3.3 so had 3 5g dextrose tabs, and my second shake which was going to be 50g of oats and 50g whey but i added 40 grams of dex to it as well due to the low reading. Checked a few more time and bg steadily increased with time.

Im a bit bemused to why the readings were so low, am i just hyper sensitive to insulin or have a made a major error somewhere? Any help would be appreciated.

gt


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## tprice (Aug 28, 2011)

have more carbs?

are you reading the IUs correctly?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

aye im going for more carbs next time. seems contradictory to everyone else who uses it though, its usually whittled down not ramped up. if ive got to use that many carbs to avoid hypo will i just turn fat? i dont see how i could have dialled a wrong number in, its just dial to your number and push.


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## tprice (Aug 28, 2011)

everyone is different, my BG readins have been low but i didnt feel hypo, i always kept lucozade and dextrose tabs on hand.

maybe email pscarb or mars?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

yeah I might do, thought i'd put it up to the general public to see if i'd missed something silly before bothering them with a pm


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

i was in the house so had plenty of dextrose to hand, not a chance i was leaving the house on my first run!!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

the 10g carb/1iu rule is only a guideline you can have more carbs if you want, i have 3iu pwo and have my mass gainer which is sumit like 250g carbs then i drink about 400ml lucozade throughout the 3hr active period, im not getting fat but ive gained plenty and nicly filled out now


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

i thought the whole point was to use 8-10 ius to get a substantial hit to get the protein and other mechanisms activated around the body, the carb carbs are just a necessity to prevent you going hypo whilst getting the benefit from the insulin. 250g of carbs seems like a lot to me and from what ive read id have thought this would make you fat?! im wondering if the fact that i appear to be so sensitive to it in a carb respect means that i need to take less for it to work or that its just not a viable option for me without excessive fat gain :confused1:

i'll be having another play tomorrow anyway with raised carbs to see how i get on, still at 5ius. incidentally im on test, tren, ghrp6 and mod grf at 100mcg each 3x a day but i thought the peps would reduce sensitivity?


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## usernameneeded (Sep 24, 2009)

it could just be cause its new to ur body

i started slin in jan and had the same thing with my 1st shot

didnt feel any ill effects but was checking B.G every20 mins so picked up on it when it was 3.9 i think , i had a luco sport and a few sweets and was fine

then i did my next shot later on so was keeping an eye on it cause of what happened with the 1st shot but didnt get any problems and all my other shots have been fine since so i just put it down to the 1st shot of slin being a shock to the system ( i was doing 4iu btw)


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

I did 3 shots on Monday throughout the day and they all had similar results. Fingers crossed tomorrows attempt will go better. Makes you wonder if you're that sensitive to begin with then how much harm are you doing to your body to get used to it?!


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## usernameneeded (Sep 24, 2009)

it will just be a case of finding out how many carbs you need i guess

my 1st shake i had 7g/iu maltodextrin (fast carbs) then 3g/iu blended oats (slow)

then in my 2nd shake i just had all oats

maybe try adjusting ur ratio of fast carbs to try and stop the dip coming on as quick ??


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah definitely. I'm going to stay at 5ius and play around with the carbs. I tried the 70/30 split in my 1st shake and still dropped to sub 4


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

sorry to high jack this thread, but am ment to be starting insulin on sunday, in from what iv been told, i should take 6iu post work out wid 50whey protein and 60sugar carbs, then wait 1 hour and eat a normal meal

also how do you get these readings?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> sorry to high jack this thread, but am ment to be starting insulin on sunday, in from what iv been told, i should take 6iu post work out wid 50whey protein and 60sugar carbs, then wait 1 hour and eat a normal meal
> 
> also how do you get these readings?


DONT EVEN THINK OF INSULIN until you OWN and KNOW HOW TO USE a BLOOD GLUCOS METER!!!

1 shake 10mins after the shot, 2nd shake 1 hour after the first, 30-60mins after that have a solid meal... solid meal will not be absorbed fast enough.

The reason slin protocols work, is you have 2shakes per shot, OVER AND ABOVE your normal food... which means when you do 3x10iu shots/day.. you have an extra 450g of carbs and 300g of pro (roughly) over 6 shakes, ON TOP of your solid meals... thats why you grow..


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

ok, ill order one now and read up on them.

so shake should be 50protein/60carbs, can u just have a protein shake and a lucasade then repeat 1 hours later, instead of dextose power?

so i it pointless just doing one 6iu shot postwork out?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> ok, ill order one now and read up on them.
> 
> so shake should be 50protein/60carbs, can u just have a protein shake and a lucasade then repeat 1 hours later, instead of dextose power?
> 
> so i it pointless just doing one 6iu shot postwork out?


shake is 50g WHEY pro (read up on whey and insulin to undestand why it MUST be whey) and as a rule of thumb 10g carbs/1iu 'slin.

2nd shake is same, but 5g carbs/1iu slin.

Now, thing to remember- your body desensitizes to slin fast.... and yes diabetics have issues managing this.

For a BB, the best approach is 1month on, use 3xday, EOD only (i.e not every day). Then take 500mg metformin 3x day, ED for a month, then repeat slin cycle.

Taking 1 shot post workout, wont load enough nutrients, and just desensitises you for very little gain...


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

ok, i already new it needed to by whey, just unsure if the carbs need to be dextose, wouldnt mind using lucasade

am wrighting all this down aswel, i only wanted to do the insulin post work out to slowly work up to 3x a day but that is just going to desenitizes me, thing is i dont wana do it while am in work coz i wont be able to monitor or take the shake so maybe i can use the slin on my 2 days off only?

were can i get the metformin, how much?

cheers again mate


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> ok, i already new it needed to by whey, just unsure if the carbs need to be dextose, wouldnt mind using lucasade
> 
> am wrighting all this down aswel, i only wanted to do the insulin post work out to slowly work up to 3x a day but that is just going to desenitizes me, thing is i dont wana do it while am in work coz i wont be able to monitor or take the shake so maybe i can use the slin on my 2 days off only?
> 
> ...


unitedpharmacies and alldaychemist all sell metformin.

Yes, doing 'slin 3x day is impossible when at work.. have the same issue.. last time i did it was when i had to have 3months gardening leave between jobs..

dont do it until you can do it properly. You haven't even hit 2g of gear yet.. relax with the 'slin..


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

cheers for all the info, cant thank you enough

think ill leave the slin then hey haha

good link u give me before aswell  first time i herd a pro talking about juice


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## TAFFY (Jun 3, 2009)

listen to aus that best way to run it,but if you bit advice buy whey you REALLY enjoy or few diff flavours cause believe me you will get sick of drinking it that why on day of try not to have a shake or just maybe post training one!!


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Be careful mate, if I didn't have that bg meter I think I'd be in a box in the ground now I've had some super low readings with minimal sides an the bg meter gave me the info I needed.

Aus - is the amount of carbs used directly related to the effect of the slin? I'm using 70g of dex and 100g of oats in my First shake for 8ius and I'm always under 4 mmol after 45 mins with only a very mild headache as a symptom. Usually take 30 g of dex then, wait 15 check bg has started to rise then have another shake with 40 dex and 70 oats and it's always 5mmol plus from then on That's a total of 140 g carbs from dex and 109 from oats. 31g of carbs per iu of insulin to achieve mega low readings

Would I get the same benefit from using less slin as I seem use up so many carbs? It will surely shuttle the protein at a suitable level on a lower insulin dosage? Any help would be appreciated


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## J.Smith (Jul 7, 2011)

For 8iu's Slin mate

..id do like 50-60g Dextrose/Glucose and 20-30g oats with 50g whey.

1 hour later.... 40-50g oats + 50g whey


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Have you read the rest of the thread pal? If I only used that I'd go hypo for sure


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## Pkant2002 (Nov 4, 2011)

As a diabetic of 19 years if your blood glucose ever drops to low have a mini can of coke on standby and neck that, your blood will shoot up then follow it up with a bannana sandwich.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

gingerteef said:


> Be careful mate, if I didn't have that bg meter I think I'd be in a box in the ground now I've had some super low readings with minimal sides an the bg meter gave me the info I needed.
> 
> Aus - is the amount of carbs used directly related to the effect of the slin? I'm using 70g of dex and 100g of oats in my First shake for 8ius and I'm always under 4 mmol after 45 mins with only a very mild headache as a symptom. Usually take 30 g of dex then, wait 15 check bg has started to rise then have another shake with 40 dex and 70 oats and it's always 5mmol plus from then on That's a total of 140 g carbs from dex and 109 from oats. 31g of carbs per iu of insulin to achieve mega low readings
> 
> Would I get the same benefit from using less slin as I seem use up so many carbs? It will surely shuttle the protein at a suitable level on a lower insulin dosage? Any help would be appreciated


Dont forget, you're not a diabetic, so if you use more carbs than need for the shot, your own 'slin will be released to take up the extra carbs.

Thats certainly the highest, by far, of anyone i've ever heard.. in terms of carbs required. Makes me wonder if your BG reader has been calibrated (its why they give yiou calibrating solution).. usually 10g/iu is most generous.

Are you useing novorapid (or humalog)? sounds like you're using a mixed slin..


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

It's humalog (insulin lispro) that I'm using. It does seem excessively high and it does make me wonder if I'm making a mistake somewhere. Its the 'n' control test that I have and it gives a reading of 6.6 which is right in the middle of the 'n' range. I take a multivitamin which contains 200mg r-ala per day and that is the only thing I know I'm taking that increases insulin sensitivity. It does seem really high but I'm an ecto and I've not had any fat gain from it. It really worried me to start with but I'm a lot more comfortable with it now I've done it a few times and as long as I'm not putting on fat then high carb intake isn't a problem for me


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

This thread made me worry incase I was the same. Just started slin today, first jab was fine, morning shot 30mins after peps.

BG at the time of injecting was 4.0. 5iu slin waited around 5mins, 50g whey, 35g dex, 15g oats. 15mins later 5.9, another 15mins 5.8, 30mins later 50g whey, 25g oats and BG was 5.7. All seemed fine so going to use 10iu next jab.


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

That's a pretty big jump straight from 5 to 10, what's the rush? I'm decided to stay at 8ius. I'm 225 lbs so maybe it's not enough but I didn't want to go any higher due to the high carbs needed.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

gingerteef said:


> That's a pretty big jump straight from 5 to 10, what's the rush? I'm decided to stay at 8ius. I'm 225 lbs so maybe it's not enough but I didn't want to go any higher due to the high carbs needed.


Im around 240lbs at the minute. I had 10iu PWO, shake straight after. Checked my BG 3 times now, with jab 5.6, 15mins 7.2, 30mins 7.0. Im thinking I need to wait 10mins before having my first shake. 'Cos that high right? Or it that ok?

I want the carbs, on a bulk, so not bothered really. Only problem I found was fitting the 50g whey, 70g dex, 30g oats, 10g creatine, 5g BCAAs and 5g L-Glut in my smartshaker ha.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

dusher said:


> This thread made me worry incase I was the same. Just started slin today, first jab was fine, morning shot 30mins after peps.
> 
> BG at the time of injecting was 4.0. 5iu slin waited around 5mins, 50g whey, 35g dex, 15g oats. 15mins later 5.9, another 15mins 5.8, 30mins later 50g whey, 25g oats and BG was 5.7. All seemed fine so going to use 10iu next jab.


you where 4.0 before you injected?? wow.. thats low.. was this on waking with no food since dinner? (even thats usually- 5.2-5.8 as the body normally canabolises protein, i.e muscle, while you sleep, to use the aminos for glucose to keep you over 5.0..)



gingerteef said:


> That's a pretty big jump straight from 5 to 10, what's the rush? I'm decided to stay at 8ius. I'm 225 lbs so maybe it's not enough but I didn't want to go any higher due to the high carbs needed.


usual guide is 1iu 'slin/10kg body weight.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> you where 4.0 before you injected?? wow.. thats low.. was this on waking with no food since dinner? (even thats usually- 5.2-5.8 as the body normally canabolises protein, i.e muscle, while you sleep, to use the aminos for glucose to keep you over 5.0..)


I thought that myself. That was around 45mins after waking. Hadnt ate for around 10-11hours.

edit: What should it be after I have slin? Is 7.2 ok?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

dusher said:


> I thought that myself. That was around 45mins after waking. Hadnt ate for around 10-11hours.
> 
> edit: What should it be after I have slin? Is 7.2 ok?


yeah, around 7.0 is righ after slin and food.. the body naturally releases slin to keep BG at around 7.0... 5.6 is a fasted reading usually. if you take 'slin and are under 5.6, you need more carbs...


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## Inapsine (Dec 17, 2011)

Do you know what your normal blood glucose level is. Some people have a normal rating of as low as 4.2-4.5.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Inapsine said:


> Do you know what your normal blood glucose level is. Some people have a normal rating of as low as 4.2-4.5.


thats a good point, take a few measurements on waking, and midway between breakfast and lunch etc and see what your usual readings are before taking extra insulin.

Most medical blood tests say 5.6 is a fasted reading, of course so is less than this..


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

Ok thanks Ill get a few reading tomorrow on my off day.


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

How are you getting on with it in general dusher? Are you doing it 3x a day? I find it really difficult to get all the food down, I'm on over 7000 cals a day on slin days. It makes me feel pretty ****ty as well.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

Was 5.2 this morning. All is well! 



gingerteef said:


> How are you getting on with it in general dusher? Are you doing it 3x a day? I find it really difficult to get all the food down, I'm on over 7000 cals a day on slin days. It makes me feel pretty ****ty as well.


Only done one day to be honest. I only done 2x daily. How many hours wait between jabs do you have to have? Untill the previous one is inactive? I wouldnt mind fitting a third in as I found it pretty easy consuming the food.


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

You need at least 4 hours in between jabs if it's humalog to prevent any overlap, the same time u need to make sure you stay awake for post jab. I've only managed 3x daily a few times it just wipes me out most the time and I can't face the last jab. are u doing the 2x shakes? 1 at 15 mins and one an hour post injection then a meal at 2 hrs?


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

gingerteef said:


> You need at least 4 hours in between jabs if it's humalog to prevent any overlap, the same time u need to make sure you stay awake for post jab. I've only managed 3x daily a few times it just wipes me out most the time and I can't face the last jab. are u doing the 2x shakes? 1 at 15 mins and one an hour post injection then a meal at 2 hrs?


Dont think Id be able to fit 3 in safely then. Well yesterday I did 2 shakes with first jab. Meal before the gym, shake with jab pwo, meal for second peak, then another 2 meals before bed.

So Im guessing Im trying to say no, didnt realise you have to do two shakes with the jab THEN a meal 1 hour later. Thought there was just the two peaks you had to worry about.

So your doing jab, shake, 1 hour, shake, 1hour meal? 3 times a day? With other meals in there aswell?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah I do jab then wait 15 mins, have 1st shake, 1hr post jab have 2nd shake, and meal 2 hr post jab as its active for 4 hours and that sees me right through. I don't eat any extra meals as the 2 shakes have a total of 1600 cals and the meal is another 800 so If I get 3 shots in that's 7200 cals total for the day with 525 protein and I'm having trouble digesting it all tbh. I think most people would have extra meals but my cals are higher due to higher carb requirements when on the slin. I had 8iu humalog last night then a shake with 100g oats, 80g dex, 50g protein and was still down at 3.3 mmol after an hour which is way lower than most.

I don't think it matters how u do it as long as u keep your bg up high enough. The 2shake method just allows you to adjust what you need easily.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

gingerteef said:


> Yeah I do jab then wait 15 mins, have 1st shake, 1hr post jab have 2nd shake, and meal 2 hr post jab as its active for 4 hours and that sees me right through. I don't eat any extra meals as the 2 shakes have a total of 1600 cals and the meal is another 800 so If I get 3 shots in that's 7200 cals total for the day with 525 protein and I'm having trouble digesting it all tbh. I think most people would have extra meals but my cals are higher due to higher carb requirements when on the slin. I had 8iu humalog last night then a shake with 100g oats, 80g dex, 50g protein and was still down at 3.3 mmol after an hour which is way lower than most.
> 
> I don't think it matters how u do it as long as u keep your bg up high enough. The 2shake method just allows you to adjust what you need easily.


Ahh I see. 3.3? wow. Thats with over 2g carbs/1iu aswell?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

I know pretty low hey. I've had a 2.4 as well, I missed my second shake by 10 mins. Yeah I take in 250-300g of carbs over the 2 shakes its over 30g of carbs per iu in total which is double the generous recommendation of 10g per iu in the 1st shake and 5 in the 2nd. Strangely though I seem to be losing fat off my stomach. Its all a bit strange!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

gingerteef said:


> Yeah I do jab then wait 15 mins, have 1st shake, 1hr post jab have 2nd shake, and meal 2 hr post jab as its active for 4 hours and that sees me right through. I don't eat any extra meals as the 2 shakes have a total of 1600 cals and the meal is another 800 so If I get 3 shots in that's 7200 cals total for the day with 525 protein and I'm having trouble digesting it all tbh. I think most people would have extra meals but my cals are higher due to higher carb requirements when on the slin. I had 8iu humalog last night then a shake with 100g oats, 80g dex, 50g protein and was still down at 3.3 mmol after an hour which is way lower than most.
> 
> I don't think it matters how u do it as long as u keep your bg up high enough. The 2shake method just allows you to adjust what you need easily.


3 hours between jabs of humalog or novorapid is fine.

2 shakes is the most adjsutable per jab, you fit your regular meals in as usual- the shakes supply protein and carbs for the 'slin. If your BG at 1 hour is 2 low, add more oats. Also take readings every 15mins after your jab for 2 hours... this will give you a graph/table of how your BG levels move inrelation to the carbs you've taken in... you can adjust amount of simple/complex carbs accordingly.

for people who regular hit under 4.0, you need to the the readings every 15mins until you get the carbs nailed to stay no lower than your natural morning reading.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

I never did understand that. I was thinking the second shake replaced my meal? For breakfast I normally just have 100g oats, 50g whey and a banana. So would I still have that with my second shake?

This morning went ok, was 5.3 when I woke, jab 10iu, waited 10mins, 50g whey, 70g dex, 30g oats, 10g creatine. 15minute reading was 4.7. 30mins reading was 6.6


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

Sorry for stealing your thread gingerteef ha. But weighed myself today, 5lbs gained in the last week! Feel a lot fuller.

I took my bg today at 40mins after my jab. 30mins after my first shake, it was 7.8. Is that too high? Do I need less carbs?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Ha no worries pal, nice to see how someone else is getting on. I've some results to post myself but not had the time.

Yh my understanding wAs that you should measure bg at 60 mins post jab and the 90 min mark and that they should be just above 6 and you should adjust your carbs up or down to meet that criteria. Maybe Aus can clarify? I've been checking every 15 mins as suggested due to my low levels and I'll get my results up when I can


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Just looked back at this thread and there's a post of Aus stating that about 7 is about right after food and slin. Have a read back through pal


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

I've taken some readings every 15 mins after 10iu of humalog and here are my results

1045 - 10iu humalog and 6.1

1100 - 6.7 then had 100g dex 100g oats 50g whey

1115 - 4.2

1130 - 4.5

1145 - 4.5 then 100g oats 50g whey

1200 - 5.1

1215 - 5.3

1230 - missed reading

1245 - 5.9

I then trained in the aft and recorded the following pwo

1745 - 5.8 then 10iu humalog

1800 - 6.9 then 125g oats 100g dex 50 whey

1815 - 4.2

1830 - 3.9

1835 - 4.3

1845 - 4.5 then 100g oats 59g whey

1900 - lost data

1915 - 4.9

1930 - 6.1

As you can see I upped the oats by 25g pwo but it made no difference, in fact I was just as low after the first figures. Maybe this was due to it being pwo and having low glycogen stores? It looks to me as tho there is just a lull between the sugars being used and the oats taking over? Or that I've waited too long to have my shake? The oats seem to handle blood sugar fine once they are released. Next run I'm going to increase the dextrose content of the first shake. I think the oats will probably need to be raised also but I can only change one thing at a time if I'm to know what's doing what.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

Why does your BG rise after your shot? :confused1:

Im slowly getting used to my response. Although Im a bit confised about around 45 after my shot. Last two readings have been 7.8, 7.9. Seemed quite high. Going to take my next 45min reading soon so going to compare. Does that mean Im getting desensitizing myself to slin already?

Anyways felt really full today, (probs because my sunday cheat day) had a great workout. Trying to not to weigh myself but couldnt help it. 10lbs on in 10days. Very happy!


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

5.4 this time. Hmmm. Confusing me. Going to do what you did and take reading every 15mins for a few shots.


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

That's some quality weight gain. Nice one. I'm only up 12lbs in 3 weeks and that's with peps and aas too. No idea why it rises after no carbs in my system, I seem to be a bit of a freak when it comes to slin. I've not had any for 4 days as I've been away but I'll get some more results up after today. Mine seem to be a bit erratic as well, every time I think I've got the carbs right I'll get a low reading. How'd u get on?


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

gingerteef said:


> That's some quality weight gain. Nice one. I'm only up 12lbs in 3 weeks and that's with peps and aas too. No idea why it rises after no carbs in my system, I seem to be a bit of a freak when it comes to slin. I've not had any for 4 days as I've been away but I'll get some more results up after today. Mine seem to be a bit erratic as well, every time I think I've got the carbs right I'll get a low reading. How'd u get on?


Yeh cheers bud, same, just started AAS and peps again. Your readings confuse me. Im waiting on my 45min reading now. Ill post when Im done.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

6.5, that seems fine to me. Dont know how I was getting those high readings that time!


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

Loving this 'full' feeling. My strengths going up too, dont know if the slin has anything to do with that.

My gf always know when Ive had a jab though, it bloody stinks ha


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah my gf definitely knows if it's an insulin day haha. It's a right challenge trying to keep them in! 6.5 is spot on mate, I had a 2.9 again yesterday at the 1 hr mark and that was after 120 g dex and 120g oats. Had to eat a full pack of dex tablets. It was my pwo shot so I can only assume I was massively glycogen depleted from the workout? The gf wants me to buy a glucagon pen. Don't suppose you know where I can get 1? Adc and united pharmacies don't stock them.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

gingerteef said:


> Yeah my gf definitely knows if it's an insulin day haha. It's a right challenge trying to keep them in! 6.5 is spot on mate, I had a 2.9 again yesterday at the 1 hr mark and that was after 120 g dex and 120g oats. Had to eat a full pack of dex tablets. It was my pwo shot so I can only assume I was massively glycogen depleted from the workout? The gf wants me to buy a glucagon pen. Don't suppose you know where I can get 1? Adc and united pharmacies don't stock them.


bloody hell be careful mate. That would make me reconsider using slin.

Maybe ask a friends whos type 1?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

I know cheers mate. I use the ground oats from bulkpowders, you don't suppose they could be metabolising too fast as they're already partially broken down giving me problems at the hour mark? But if that was the case my reading before the hour would be high. I'm baffled really.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

My 45min reading this morning was 4.6. Its not showing a real pattern yet. Still havnt done every 15mins yet, before I finish this month I will.

You using the kwikpen? Its great I think, really easy to use. So far I added 5lbs in the first week and 7lbs in the second week. Going well, really full at the minute!


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

You'd think that if any readings were going to be consistent it would be the morning ones as the body is in a fasted state. I've done the 15 minute thing a few times now and always get different readings. I've spent a fortune on them test strips ha. Yeah humalog kwikpen, they're really easy to use. It's not something you want to be getting wrong is it ha. Do you use a fresh needle for each jab?

Is that more than u put on with just aas alone? I usually put on around a pound a day the 1st 2 weeks on cycle, and that's with a front load the 1st week, depending what you're using obviously.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

gingerteef said:


> You'd think that if any readings were going to be consistent it would be the morning ones as the body is in a fasted state. I've done the 15 minute thing a few times now and always get different readings. I've spent a fortune on them test strips ha. Yeah humalog kwikpen, they're really easy to use. It's not something you want to be getting wrong is it ha. Do you use a fresh needle for each jab?
> 
> Is that more than u put on with just aas alone? I usually put on around a pound a day the 1st 2 weeks on cycle, and that's with a front load the 1st week, depending what you're using obviously.


Yeh use a fresh needle each time, found some on ebay for under £10 for 100. Cant even feel it to be honest, just the insulin stinks ha.

Just feel a lot fuller if you know what I mean. More than Ive ever felt with just AAS. Ive put a stone on now, starting to slow down, only 4lbs off my heaviest.

Have you found the glucopen? You could maybe get hypostop or glucogel? They are readily available.


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

found this:

http://www.wms.co.uk/Diabetes_Screening/Diabetes_Treatment_and_Screening_Devices/GlucaGen_HypoKit_1mg

That any good for you?


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

dusher said:


> found this:
> 
> http://www.wms.co.uk/Diabetes_Screening/Diabetes_Treatment_and_Screening_Devices/GlucaGen_HypoKit_1mg
> 
> That any good for you?


Looks like exactly what I need. There's no option to buy it tho :-(


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## dusher (Jul 8, 2008)

ahhh precription only!


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## gingerteef (Sep 23, 2009)

Bugger. I'll find one somewhere cheers pal


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> shake is 50g WHEY pro (read up on whey and insulin to undestand why it MUST be whey) and as a rule of thumb 10g carbs/1iu 'slin.
> 
> 2nd shake is same, but 5g carbs/1iu slin.
> 
> ...


what if your tolorence to slin is low to begin with? could you use ed till you get your doses up? i see a post of yours saying you need around 10iu x3 ed for mass gains so once ed isnt enough


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