# Wide Grip Pull Up Hell..............



## dangerdave (Jun 1, 2013)

Hi all, I have been training for almost 12 months now, and although I am 52 I am still serious about my training and building up muscle, and I am enjoying every minute of it! It's only really been in the last 3 months that I have applied good form etc to my workouts and I am seeing the benefit in shape and size forming where there was none before. I was very pleased a few weeks ago when I saw the first good amount of lats emerging from below the armpit level and making that classic V shape! I know this may sound a bit soft to some well experienced gym goers but I think its great - it's spurred me on further!!!

The main question I am asking is about wide grip pull ups. I am finding them the hardest thing to do in the gym, and maybe manage 3 on a good day......

I am working now on the assisted ones, doing 10 with 40kg on the 10 with 30kg etc etc. I can still feel the benefit of these and do 3 -4 sets before moving on to the lat pull down machine.

Should I be trying un assisted ones every back day and see if I can build them up? Or am I best to carry on with weight help and be happy with that? I am 85kg, and on the pull down I am getting 10 reps at about 75kg so I see I am still short of that bit of pull !! Whenever I try un assisted ones it feels like my whole body is about to tear apart.

Advice appreciated.

Cheers, David


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## UKLifter88 (Sep 19, 2011)

What is your BF%?


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## dangerdave (Jun 1, 2013)

JammyGit said:


> What is your BF%?


I suppose that may be the problem Jammy, at the moment it's 19% and I am working at getting that down. When I started last year it was 26%


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

I would do as many bw as possible then go onto assisted. Try and lower the assistance over a few weeks until you have built up the strength to do them.


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## dangerdave (Jun 1, 2013)

solidcecil said:


> I would do as many bw as possible then go onto assisted. Try and lower the assistance over a few weeks until you have built up the strength to do them.


Cheers I will try that. Its back day on Sunday so after a warm up I will try and do 2 - 3 - 4 reps to start with. As another member has asked about BF% I may find them better if I can get down to below 15% but at 52 it's a little more difficult......


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

dangerdave said:


> Cheers I will try that. Its back day on Sunday so after a warm up I will try and do 2 - 3 - 4 reps to start with. As another member has asked about BF% I may find them better if I can get down to below 15% but at 52 it's a little more difficult......


It's not you know, motivation is


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## dangerdave (Jun 1, 2013)

Kimball said:


> It's not you know, motivation is


Excellent. Motivation at the ready for Sunday then! Will let you all know...


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

This may offer some tips to improve things:


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

This may offer some tips to improve things:


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## Kalell (Oct 27, 2012)

dangerdave said:


> Hi all, I have been training for almost 12 months now, and although I am 52 I am still serious about my training and building up muscle, and I am enjoying every minute of it! It's only really been in the last 3 months that I have applied good form etc to my workouts and I am seeing the benefit in shape and size forming where there was none before. I was very pleased a few weeks ago when I saw the first good amount of lats emerging from below the armpit level and making that classic V shape! I know this may sound a bit soft to some well experienced gym goers but I think its great - it's spurred me on further!!!
> 
> The main question I am asking is about wide grip pull ups. I am finding them the hardest thing to do in the gym, and maybe manage 3 on a good day......
> 
> ...


Pull ups in general were one of my main bug bares mate but i ended up getting the hang (no pun intended) of them however i always wanted to be able to do wide arm pulls.

What i used to do was EVERY session i was trying to do at least 1, i never used the assisted machine as i could not get on with it, after a while i managed to do one then next session i managed 2 etc after about 6-8 weeks i was doing 3 sets of 5, ok not massive amount of reps per set but to go from not been able to do 1 to 3x5 i was well happy.

Unfortunately my current gym doesnt have a pull up bar so i am plodding on with rack pulls until they get one, i'll be gutted if next time i try i cant manage 1 rep :lol:


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

I currently weigh 85kg can do lat pulldowns with 140kg for 8 reps and 3 sets and can't do a single one so do not feel bad! I have come to the conclusion some can some can't and I am one of them that cant!


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## K-Rod (Sep 10, 2012)

Just keep trying them every time you're in the gym. I installed a pullup bar in my home gym 2 weeks ago and could just about manage 5 wide grip. Yesterday I did a set of 10 for the first time, followed by a set of 8, then 7.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Bear2012 said:


> I currently weigh 85kg can do lat pulldowns with 140kg for 8 reps and 3 sets and can't do a single one so do not feel bad! I have come to the conclusion some can some can't and I am one of them that cant!


Something sounds wrong here. 140kg is a huge amount you should easy be able to do pull ups. Is it a cable machine or a leverage machine? What is your form like?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Bear2012 said:


> I currently weigh 85kg can do lat pulldowns with 140kg for 8 reps and 3 sets and can't do a single one so do not feel bad! I have come to the conclusion some can some can't and I am one of them that cant!


and I bet your form is perfect on those lat pull downs.. :rolleye:


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## Kalell (Oct 27, 2012)

K-Rod said:


> Just keep trying them every time you're in the gym. I installed a pullup bar in my home gym 2 weeks ago and could just about manage 5 wide grip. Yesterday I did a set of 10 for the first time, followed by a set of 8, then 7.


exactly what i done, every time i walked into the gym whether it be back/legs/chest etc day i tried to do a wapu, got there eventually


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

3 body weight pull-ups is better than 10 assisted IMO, just keep at them mate, they'll soon build up.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

dangerdave said:


> Hi all, I have been training for almost 12 months now, and although I am 52 I am still serious about my training and building up muscle, and I am enjoying every minute of it! It's only really been in the last 3 months that I have applied good form etc to my workouts and I am seeing the benefit in shape and size forming where there was none before. I was very pleased a few weeks ago when I saw the first good amount of lats emerging from below the armpit level and making that classic V shape! I know this may sound a bit soft to some well experienced gym goers but I think its great - it's spurred me on further!!!
> 
> The main question I am asking is about wide grip pull ups. I am finding them the hardest thing to do in the gym, and maybe manage 3 on a good day......
> 
> ...


If you want to improve on them, do them more often.

You could buy one of those home pull up bars you hang over your door frame and do a couple every morning, also, add in a couple negative reps at the end of your set, google' 'negative pull ups'


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## PowerMyself (Sep 29, 2011)

dangerdave said:


> Excellent. Motivation at the ready for Sunday then! Will let you all know...


Hey Dave.

Pull-ups/chin-ups are always tough, especially wide grip, it's just something that comes in time, just keep at it. I used different grips on the lat pull downs and made it nice and heavy. Use narrow and wide grips on the chin up bar too to work different muscles. Reverse grips are great on arms day too.

19% isn't that bad and down from 26% is really impressive, well done.

- I like the idea of doing a few every day, maybe just after warmup - it is the 'squat of the upper body' afterall ;-)


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> and I bet your form is perfect on those lat pull downs.. :rolleye:


It is 100% perfect I pull the weight all the way down until I am lying horizontal on the bench and then allow the weight to pull me back up


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

monkeybiker said:


> Something sounds wrong here. 140kg is a huge amount you should easy be able to do pull ups. Is it a cable machine or a leverage machine? What is your form like?


Had this conversation earlier this week lol I just cannot get it right. The machine is lat pull down. I find pullups really stress my front delts and forearms like mad. Never been able to do them even back when I was powerlifting. I must have been the only person in the gym deadlifting just shy of 300kg and could not pull my own bodyweight up. Even at 85kg (coming down from around 97/98kg) I deadlifted 215kg for 4 reps this week and still can't do them. They are as rare for me as finding the winning lottery ticket numbers!


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## bobbydrake (Nov 19, 2012)

You are way ahead of me on the weights but I've just started doing weighted pull-ups (got myself a belt I can attach plates to) - I'm only 67kgs so I suppose I'm lifting a bit less than you 

What hand position are you doing - I usually do them with my palms facing each other (thumbs nearest my body). How are you with dips too?


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## M_at (May 2, 2009)

There's a huge levers thing going on with wide grip pullups and that works against some people.

I don't think I've ever managed one. But I have managed a narrow grip pull ups.

If you're achieving your goals for physique or strength and can't do one thing as well as others then no big whoop - you can probably do more or look better in other people's eyes.


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

Negatives are the way to increase your pull up strength.

Do as many normal unassisted ones as you can then jump up to the top of the movement and lower yourself down as slowly as you can (say 5 seconds or thereabouts), keep doing negatives until you can't hold yourself up anymore. You should find that this allows you to do more normal ones next time and so on, just repeat this until you can do 10-15 good proper pull ups then start adding weight to them and drop numbers back down again, do weighted negatives and you get the idea.

Also close grip chin ups (palms facing you) are good as these tend to be easier but will help strengthen your back after you've failed at normal wide grip ones. You could try doing WG pulls to failure then going straight in to a set of CG chin ups to take it further.

I was crap at pulls and chins for ages but have really worked on it and the improvements do come fast if you really hammer yourself on them


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

M_at said:


> There's a huge levers thing going on with wide grip pullups and that works against some people.
> 
> I don't think I've ever managed one. But I have managed a narrow grip pull ups.QUOTE]
> 
> I was beginning to think I was the only person in the world who could not do them even my gf and daughter can do them!


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## ryda (May 31, 2010)

Only just conquered wide grips this year after doing narrow grip for ages


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Bear2012 said:


> Had this conversation earlier this week lol I just cannot get it right. The machine is lat pull down. I find pullups really stress my front delts and forearms like mad. Never been able to do them even back when I was powerlifting. I must have been the only person in the gym deadlifting just shy of 300kg and could not pull my own bodyweight up. Even at 85kg (coming down from around 97/98kg) I deadlifted 215kg for 4 reps this week and still can't do them. They are as rare for me as finding the winning lottery ticket numbers!


That's a similar problem to what I get. I can do them but crippled my forearms and negatively effects other exercises for days, and gets gradually worse.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Just do them narrow grip till u are beasting them, then move on to wider


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

Kimball said:


> That's a similar problem to what I get. I can do them but crippled my forearms and negatively effects other exercises for days, and gets gradually worse.


It feels like I have tennis elbow back when I attempt them the pain in my forearms is agonising and as you it just escualates into a niggling injury that seems to drag on forever. I used to get the same pain doing curls but it has gone these days but for me pullups will never happen. I watch guys in the gym rattle them out like they are going out of fashion. They watch me do lats then struggle to do anything on widegrip and shake their heads and laugh.


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

It gives me tennis elbow (or golf, get them mixed up) and the only cure is a couple of weeks off, hate it!


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## Donny dog (May 1, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> Just do them narrow grip till u are beasting them, then move on to wider


Are narrow grip palms facing away not harder than wide grip palms facing away?

l would have thought narrow grip isolates the triceps more and wider grip incorporates the shoulders and back????

Also, on what day is it best to train pull ups? back or shoulders?

lm another one of those who really wants to beast pull ups. Party trick kinda stuff l guess!


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## BennyC (Mar 18, 2010)

monkeybiker said:


> Something sounds wrong here. 140kg is a huge amount you should easy be able to do pull ups. Is it a cable machine or a leverage machine? What is your form like?


There was an ISO nautilus machine at my last gym, I could stack it full 125KG with near perfect form, stick me on a regular traditional pulldown and I doubt I could budge anything over 100.

Just like leg press strength doesn't translate to squats the same applies for pulldowns.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Look backwards(tilt head back head) and the pull up will become easier until you can do them properly.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Bear2012 said:


> Out of curiosity try this..go to the squat rack, put the safety bars to the top and try to do them by gripping the safety bars.
> 
> If it works it'll be way more impressive than WG pullups. Mightnt be any use to you, but at least worth a go. 140kg lat pulldowns at 87 kg...I hate you.


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Bear2012 said:


> I currently weigh 85kg can do lat pulldowns with 140kg for 8 reps and 3 sets and can't do a single one so do not feel bad! I have come to the conclusion some can some can't and I am one of them that cant!


should be able to do chins if you can do lat pull downs with 140k. deffo. take a look at form again,are you using alot of momentum? with chins do negatives very slowly coming down so you can really feel it,then do it again.

just keep at it,its one of those things that happens very slowly.have always been able to do them my self since i was very young,but still improvments for me still very slow,i mostly stick to the pull downs these days,love being able to go heavy and quickly dropping the weight on the last set again and again till complete failiure,pump is insane.


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> I tried it yesterday and the pain in the forearms was mental had to stop! However I did manage 2 1/2 on the WG until forearms felt like they were going to rip apart. My problem with pullups is the forearms. Maybe the angle, previous injuries play a big part in it?


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Get a pull up bar and do them at home pull up a chair and when you can't do any more reps put one foot up then when you can't manage any more with one put two feet up also don't just do wide grip do underhand and close grip pullups aswell


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Bear2012 said:


> Weird all in all, start doing hammer curls frequently...dont kill yerself with them..build it up for a few weeks...might help, do you do those?


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## liftmore (Aug 2, 2010)

I find that you can build strength very very quick on these.

Do as many full reps as you can, if its 3 then fine, have 1 - 2 min rest and repeat. Keep doing this until you can not manage any more reps.

You will be doing 5 within 2 - 3 weeks! then 7 then 10!


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## Al n (Mar 31, 2011)

Negatives helped me build up my reps. Use a chair to reach the highest point then steadily lower yourself in a controlled movement. Rinse and repeat until you hurt.


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> Yup do hammer curls and forearm curls ;-)


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Bear2012 said:


> Don't know so Bear...?! Yer a lost cause!!


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

held negative reps or isometric - Google them


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

mixerD1 said:


> lol I agree! I think its having had tennis elbow in both arms limit my "pullup" ability as pulling down seems to be ok


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Bear2012 said:


> Scroll upwards and try what I said.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Bear2012 said:


> Scroll upwards and try what I said.


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## Tag (Jun 19, 2013)

don't get yourself down mate. pull ups are one of the hardest exercises to do, only thing harder is heavy squats or deadlift IMO

i remember when i couldn't even do 1, felt embarrassing

so i started doing them as often as i could, every workout, between exercises

doesn't matter if its a pull up bar, a tree branch, a door frame or the bars at the swing-park, your body still recognises the motion and will adapt

i'm still not where i want to be with them, but i can do a good few sets at bodyweight, and to me, that's progress

start out with going up as far as you can, and really lower yourself slowly. you can also get a mate to give you a boost so you get the slow, controlled negative from the top. a bench works for this too, slow negatives are the key

if your gym has an assisted machine, that's ok, but natural motion is best

p.s: i haven't read this whole thread, so apologises in advance, hope it helps etc


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## K-Rod (Sep 10, 2012)

I managed 3 sets of 10 today which proves if you stick at them, you'll improve pretty quickly as I could only manage about 5 a month ago!


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## rob w (Aug 27, 2012)

Ginger Ben said:


> Negatives are the way to increase your pull up strength.
> 
> Do as many normal unassisted ones as you can then jump up to the top of the movement and lower yourself down as slowly as you can (say 5 seconds or thereabouts), keep doing negatives until you can't hold yourself up anymore. You should find that this allows you to do more normal ones next time and so on, just repeat this until you can do 10-15 good proper pull ups then start adding weight to them and drop numbers back down again, do weighted negatives and you get the idea.
> 
> ...


^^this, all out, then negatives. It'll come.


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## james_benjamin (Nov 13, 2012)

what i did was started doing as many as I could in like say 3 sets then each week I did more reps until i built it up to 12x3


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## dangerdave (Jun 1, 2013)

Just to keep you all informed, i've been trying various suggestions given here, and this morning after a warm up, managed 3 sets of 5 good wide grip pull ups! Well pleased !! I stopped at 5 reps when things started getting a bit 'leg swingy'.

Next target is 3 sets of 7 !!

Cheers all......

David


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## rob w (Aug 27, 2012)

dangerdave said:


> Just to keep you all informed, i've been trying various suggestions given here, and this morning after a warm up, managed 3 sets of 5 good wide grip pull ups! Well pleased !! I stopped at 5 reps when things started getting a bit 'leg swingy'.
> 
> Next target is 3 sets of 7 !!
> 
> ...


Well done mate. Keep at it and you'll be adding weight on with a dips belt before long. :thumbup:


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Doing declines only (jumping up to the top of the rep when you cant do any more full ones and slowly coming down) Is a good way to increase bodyweight pull up reps.

But for most people bf% determins how many they can do


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## stryker007 (Nov 12, 2012)

I'm the same with pullups, rubbish at them. For the last few weeks started doing narrow grip chin-ups whenever I can... I just remain mindful so whenever I'm walking past a bar at the gym I grab it and do a few pull-ups.... same when I'm with my kid down the park... ooh look swings, I can do some pullups there!  I must say after a few weeks of this I'm already seeing some improvement.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Can anyone manage a one arm chin? My mate can, but they just put way too much pressure on my elbow tendons so can't really put 100% into it.


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## DiscSupps (Oct 26, 2012)

Why not speak to our Fitness and Nutrition Advisor/Fitness Competitor Scott, who can offer you free impartial advice. Get in touch


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## Ragnar (Dec 6, 2012)

I have always struggled with pull-ups and chin-ups too, however after a couple of weeks perseverance i can now do 3 good pull-ups in a row and 5 chin-ups 

Still kills me though :laugh:


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

Wide grip is a cvnt for everyone  do as many as u can, followed by negatives, followed by assistance. Bring bf down.

There's no shame in assistance.....ego at the door & concentrate on feeling the muscle work


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

2004mark said:


> Can anyone manage a one arm chin? My mate can, but they just put way too much pressure on my elbow tendons so can't really put 100% into it.


Where's his other hand? I can do them if I hold my wrist....which IMO isn't a 1 arm pull-up lol


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

JANIKvonD said:


> Wide grip is a cvnt for everyone  do as many as u can, followed by negatives, followed by assistance. Bring bf down.
> 
> There's no shame in assistance.....ego at the door & concentrate on feeling the muscle work


said it before but close grip till u smashing them the widen ur frip, thats what i done btw... warm up first, not doing that is what hurt me eventually""


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> said it before but close grip till u smashing them the widen ur frip, thats what i done btw... warm up first, not doing that is what hurt me eventually""


I only do chins for pull-ups now...since losing weight I've been adding a 20 plate....dunno why.....but felt the dogs baws doing them with it lol.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

JANIKvonD said:


> I only do chins for pull-ups now...since losing weight I've been adding a 20 plate....dunno why.....but felt the dogs baws doing them with it lol.


i reckon i could start adding weight tbf but i cant even do them bodyweight at the minute with my lat thing - proper doin my head in


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2013)

Wouldn't even contemplate them, except assisted


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> i reckon i could start adding weight tbf but i cant even do them bodyweight at the minute with my lat thing - proper doin my head in


Lol, I jamp on some chins the othet week for the first time in AGES, battered out 23 lol...really wasn't expecting it. So obviously there my main back exercise before I'm fat again & can't do them


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

JANIKvonD said:


> Lol, I jamp on some chins the othet week for the first time in AGES, battered out 23 lol...really wasn't expecting it. So obviously there my main back exercise before I'm fat again & can't do them


mate, its took me years to be able to bang out 12+ lol, i was loving them until recntly now i know i have to lay off them


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> mate, its took me years to be able to bang out 12+ lol, i was loving them until recntly now i know i have to lay off them


Done Olympic ring pull-ups yesterday....they were nails tbh


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## dangerdave (Jun 1, 2013)

Hi all. Now into October and I am happy to report that this morning I did wide grip pull ups un assisted in reps of 5, 7 then 10!! As the OP I can say this has met one of my goals! Cheers for all the comments and advice!!!


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

do as many as you can un assisted then have your w/o partner help you up with you lower yourself slowly. repeat until you have exhausted both the positive and negitive ends of the movements. thats how i developed stremgth and form in the pull ups


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