# Best Natty workout routine???



## jaymz1975

Hi all,

I'm age 40 and been training just over a year now. I got off to a slow start because I was told that a split program would work best, and so for the first 10 months I trained as follows:


Monday - chest & triceps
Tuesday - back & biceps
Wednesday - rest day
Thursday - shoulders & arms
Friday - legs
Sat & Sun - rest

Progress was very slow and I wasn't really making good gains. I did some research and found that the above program can work very well if you are using 'enhancements' as protein synthesis remains elevated for approximately 5-6 days. However, if you are training 'naturally', like I am, then protein synthesis only remains elevated for approximately 48 hours, therefore, training each muscle only once a week will not lead to 'optimal' results.

With this in mind I changed to a full body routine as follows:


Monday - upper body
Tuesday - legs
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - upper body
Friday - legs
Sat & Sun - rest

Almost immediately I noticed much better results as I was training each muscle twice a week instead of just once. However, my upper body workout takes an hour to complete. I've also read that a workout should not last for more than 40-45 mins to be 'optimal'.

The above routine is currently working for me but I'm always looking to improve on things and make sure I'm getting the most I possibly can from my training and to build as much mass as possible naturally.

I'm now considering breaking my routine down further and using a push/pull/legs split as follows:


Monday - push (chest, triceps, shoulders)
Tuesday - pull (back, biceps, forearms)
Wednesday - legs & abs
Thursday- rest
Friday - push (chest, triceps, shoulders)
Saturday - pull (back, biceps, forearms)
Sunday - legs & abs
Monday - rest day and repeat cycle on Tuesday.

An 8 day routine but still training each muscle twice a week and my workout should be no more than 40 mins. Also, each muscle gets an extra day recovery (which I probably need at age 40).

For each exercise I do 4 sets of 8-9 reps, always to failure.

What are your thoughts guys? What has worked best for you?

Thanks.


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## ausmaz

jaymz1975 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm age 40 and been training just over a year now. I got off to a slow start because I was told that a split program would work best, and so for the first 10 months I trained as follows:
> 
> 
> Monday - chest & triceps
> Tuesday - back & biceps
> Wednesday - rest day
> Thursday - shoulders & arms
> Friday - legs
> Sat & Sun - rest
> 
> Progress was very slow and I wasn't really making good gains. I did some research and found that the above program can work very well if you are using 'enhancements' as protein synthesis remains elevated for approximately 5-6 days. However, if you are training 'naturally', like I am, then protein synthesis only remains elevated for approximately 48 hours, therefore, training each muscle only once a week will not lead to 'optimal' results.
> 
> With this in mind I changed to a full body routine as follows:
> 
> 
> Monday - upper body
> Tuesday - legs
> Wednesday - rest
> Thursday - upper body
> Friday - legs
> Sat & Sun - rest
> 
> Almost immediately I noticed much better results as I was training each muscle twice a week instead of just once. However, my upper body workout takes an hour to complete. I've also read that a workout should not last for more than 40-45 mins to be 'optimal'.
> 
> The above routine is currently working for me but I'm always looking to improve on things and make sure I'm getting the most I possibly can from my training and to build as much mass as possible naturally.
> 
> I'm now considering breaking my routine down further and using a push/pull/legs split as follows:
> 
> 
> Monday - push (chest, triceps, shoulders)
> Tuesday - pull (back, biceps, forearms)
> Wednesday - legs & abs
> Thursday- rest
> Friday - push (chest, triceps, shoulders)
> Saturday - pull (back, biceps, forearms)
> Sunday - legs & abs
> Monday - rest day and repeat cycle on Tuesday.
> 
> An 8 day routine but still training each muscle twice a week and my workout should be no more than 40 mins. Also, each muscle gets an extra day recovery (which I probably need at age 40).
> 
> For each exercise I do 4 sets of 8-9 reps, always to failure.
> 
> What are your thoughts guys? What has worked best for you?
> 
> Thanks.


first up a 'full body routine' has you training the whole body in one session....what you were doing was an upper/lower split. Now the split your using has you training 6 days a week? Mate, this will result in either a) your lifts will stagnate, stall and eventually regress b you will injure yourself.

In my opinion, and im sure others will offer similar advice..... get yourself on an established program. No disrespect but the programming you have done for yourself will not benefit you... look up icf 5x5, stronglifts, greyskull lp. Train 3 days a week, take in more calories than you use daily and get stronger..... then stronger still on the compound exercises. Add small amounts of weight to the bar when you can and you will amaze yourself what you can do.... good luck.


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## ausmaz

Oh and 1 hour for a workout is not unusual, when your well into stronglifts or other 5x5 programs 90 mins is more likely. If your training for strength.... which imho you should be! Taking plenty of rest in between hard sets becomes essential to get the most from your training...


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## Big ape

best natty routine is, chest 3x a week and arms 2x a week


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## RexEverthing

ausmaz said:


> first up a 'full body routine' has you training the whole body in one session....what you were doing was an upper/lower split. Now the split your using has you training 6 days a week? Mate, this will result in either a) your lifts will stagnate, stall and eventually regress b you will injure yourself.
> 
> In my opinion, and im sure others will offer similar advice..... get yourself on an established program. No disrespect but the programming you have done for yourself will not benefit you... look up icf 5x5, stronglifts, greyskull lp. Train 3 days a week, take in more calories than you use daily and get stronger..... then stronger still on the compound exercises. Add small amounts of weight to the bar when you can and you will amaze yourself what you can do.... good luck.


Need to google this grey skull routine. Never heard of it.


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## ausmaz

RexEverthing said:


> Need to google this grey skull routine. Never heard of it.


tbh mate theyre all the same....its sets of 3x5 on the compound movements with 'plug-ins' for specificity.


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## jaymz1975

Hey thanks guys, now I'm confused :confused1:

My main goal is size/mass. I want to gain as much size as I can naturally, so how often should I train each muscle a week?

Strength is great but I've seen guys down the gym strength training and they don't look how I want to look. If that makes sense?


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## ILLBehaviour

> Hey thanks guys, now I'm confused :confused1:
> 
> My main goal is size/mass. I want to gain as much size as I can naturally, so how often should I train each muscle a week?
> 
> Strength is great but I've seen guys down the gym strength training and they don't look how I want to look. If that makes sense?


you could look at lyle mcdonalds bulking routine. Thats more in the hypertophy rep range.

what are your current lifts like at the moment ?


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## jaymz1975

Big ape said:


> best natty routine is, chest 3x a week and arms 2x a week


Hey BigApe, could you give me more on this please mate?

What type of split would this be?

Thanks


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## The-Real-Deal

Mine


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## Big ape

> Hey BigApe, could you give me more on this please mate?
> 
> What type of split would this be?
> 
> Thanks


Sorry mate was just having a laugh, If i was to start lifting again from the start i would go with a routine like 5x5 something based around compound lifts i.e Squats, Bench press, Deadlift ..... Take your body measurements when u start the routine u choose, stick to your program then check your measurements in a 8-12 week window and see if u have progressed... Also track your routine and try to beat the week before. Say u bench 20kg a side for say 10 reps the next time u step in the gym try and strive for more reps .. then the week after increase the weight slightly and carry on progressing


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## jaymz1975

ILLBehaviour said:


> you could look at lyle mcdonalds bulking routine. Thats more in the hypertophy rep range.
> 
> what are your current lifts like at the moment ?


Thanks ILLBehaviour, this sounds more like what I'm looking for, I'll check it out.

My current lifts aren't that great to be honest. I do my compound lifts because I know they are important but 20 years doing roofing has took its toll on my body, bad knees, lower back etc, but I do try.


Bench press 90kg - 8 reps
Dead lifts 70kg - 8-9 reps
Squats 80kg - 8-9 reps

I've never done 1 rep maxes or nothing like that so I don't know what I could lift. I've always concentrated on hypertrophy which I understand is in the 8-12 rep range whereas strength is in the 1-6 rep range? So I've always worked around 4 sets of 8 (failing on 8). On the above lifts I rest 2mins between each set and do 4 sets. All other sets I rest 30 seconds between.


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## jaymz1975

Natty Steve'o said:


> Mine


So what split are you using then Natty Steve'o?

At 16 stone 7 you must know your stuff, help me out mate?


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## ILLBehaviour

> Thanks ILLBehaviour, this sounds more like what I'm looking for, I'll check it out.
> 
> My current lifts aren't that great to be honest. I do my compound lifts because I know they are important but 20 years doing roofing has took its toll on my body, bad knees, lower back etc, but I do try.
> 
> 
> Bench press 90kg - 8 reps
> Dead lifts 70kg - 8-9 reps
> Squats 80kg - 8-9 reps
> 
> I've never done 1 rep maxes or nothing like that so I don't know what I could lift. I've always concentrated on hypertrophy which I understand is in the 8-12 rep range whereas strength is in the 1-6 rep range? So I've always worked around 4 sets of 8 (failing on 8). On the above lifts I rest 2mins between each set and do 4 sets. All other sets I rest 30 seconds between.


personally if i were you i would want to be training to get my strength up on squats and deads.


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## kev1

Everyone responds differently, I personally wouldnt bother with an upper and lower routine. you want to hit each muscle group hard and heavy for size and strength.

example

monday chest: incline barbell, flat press, incline dumbbell, flat flys

tuesday back: wide grip chins, bent over rows, dumbbell rows, wide grip pull downs, seated row

weds: legs: squats, front squats, leg extension, straight leg dead lifts, calves

thurs shoulders: dumbbell press, side raises, military press, bent over raises, shrugs

fri guns: tricep push downs, ez curl, ez skull crushers, seated dumbbell curl, dips, hammer curl, narrow grip

Just an example 5 day split, food for thought


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## The-Real-Deal

jaymz1975 said:


> *Monday - upper body*
> *Tuesday - legs*
> *Wednesday - rest*
> *Thursday - upper body*
> *Friday - legs*
> *Sat & Sun - rest*


When I first started way back when....I would do a full body routine build around the big compound exercises.

When I became more advanced/developed, the weight had increased to a point I was forced to change to a upper lower split so I could shift the weight with the same intensity.

I do the upper lower split which is still built around heavy compounds. This gives me enough time out of the gym to allow my body to recover when given the correct nutritian. You grow when you are NOT in the gym.

Stimulate the muscle then recover. . working hard with consistency is key. (3 sets of 8 -10 reps)

PS mu routine is not as rigid as this. If I need an extra day to fully recover I take it. If I start to stall I change it slightly, its all about stimulating the muscle.


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## ausmaz

jaymz1975 said:


> Thanks ILLBehaviour, this sounds more like what I'm looking for, I'll check it out.
> 
> My current lifts aren't that great to be honest. I do my compound lifts because I know they are important but 20 years doing roofing has took its toll on my body, bad knees, lower back etc, but I do try.
> 
> 
> Bench press 90kg - 8 reps
> Dead lifts 70kg - 8-9 reps
> Squats 80kg - 8-9 reps
> 
> I've never done 1 rep maxes or nothing like that so I don't know what I could lift. I've always concentrated on hypertrophy which I understand is in the 8-12 rep range whereas strength is in the 1-6 rep range? So I've always worked around 4 sets of 8 (failing on 8). On the above lifts I rest 2mins between each set and do 4 sets. All other sets I rest 30 seconds between.


tbh mate, dont worry about 'hypertrophy specific rep ranges' this 8-12 rep business being all about hypertrophy..... especially at your level of development is putting the cart before the horse so to speak. Bottom line, pick an established routine focus on getting stronger whether its 5 reps, 10 reps or whatever.... progression is the name of the game.... and stick to it for 6 months... minimum. Good luck mate!


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## swole troll

ausmaz said:


> tbh mate, dont worry about 'hypertrophy specific rep ranges' this 8-12 rep business being all about hypertrophy..... especially at your level of development is putting the cart before the horse so to speak. Bottom line, pick an established routine focus on getting stronger whether its 5 reps, 10 reps or whatever.... progression is the name of the game.... and stick to it for 6 months... minimum. Good luck mate!


this right here ^^^

you cannot grow muscle or strength independently whilst eating in a caloric surplus, each is a by-product of the other

sure once youve accrued new muscle mass and you drop your calories to maintenance or sometimes even a slight deficit you can continue to add strength as you work on the neural efficiency and motor unit recruitment but for the most part as you get stronger you will get bigger and vice versa provided food and rest are adequate

i generally advise all newer lifters the same thing in regards to 'building a base' as its often refereed to

(for the first 3 beginner programs pick one of the three and if you opt for ICF then you can usually switch from ICF to stronglifts once you stall and continue to make strength gains on the lowered volume before moving onto an early intermediate program)

Stronglifts 5x5, ICF or starting strength >>> Madcow's >>> Texas method >>> Wendler's 531 with the powerlifting to win template

run each one of them into the ground before progressing to the next program: eat in a surplus, plenty of rest, follow the correct stall / deload procedures for each program until you can no longer progress on that particular routine then move onto the next and repeat the process

if you run it correctly and get everything you can from each program then this whole process will likely take years to complete but it will leave you with a decent size and strength standard plus the knowledge of programming and how to implement it into your own routine should you decide to make one after completing all of the above


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## Ultrasonic

If the upper/lower routine you were following has been working I'd stick with it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a workout taking an hour.


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## nitrogen

There isn't set routine that works for everyone. Age, diet, metabolism, rest, consistency, determination play crucial role to achieve your goals.

Looks like you know your stuff. If it ain't broke why fix it.


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## jaymz1975

Natty Steve'o said:


> When I first started way back when....I would do a full body routine build around the big compound exercises.
> 
> When I became more advanced/developed, the weight had increased to a point I was forced to change to a upper lower split so I could shift the weight with the same intensity.
> 
> I do the upper lower split which is still built around heavy compounds. This gives me enough time out of the gym to allow my body to recover when given the correct nutritian. You grow when you are NOT in the gym.
> 
> Stimulate the muscle then recover. . working hard with consistency is key. (3 sets of 8 -10 reps)
> 
> PS mu routine is not as rigid as this. If I need an extra day to fully recover I take it. If I start to stall I change it slightly, its all about stimulating the muscle.


Thanks Steve'o,

I only started to grow when I switched to an upper/lower split so I'm thinking maybe I should stick at this.

So how often do you train each muscle a week then? What would you say is 'optimal'?

Thanks mate.


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## The-Real-Deal

For me it's 2x


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## jaymz1975

Thanks for all of your comments guys, I really appreciate it. I would 'like' them all but I've ran out of likes for today. Apparently I only have 10 a day? But thanks for the advice.

I think that as my current routine is working, (upper/lower split) I'm going to stick with this. I'd hate to switch to another routine and it not work as well.

My current routine looks like this for upper body:


Bench press 4 sets 8-10 reps
Incline press 4 sets 8-10 reps
Seated rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
Lat pull downs 4 sets 8-10 reps
Dead lifts 4 sets 6-8 reps
Shoulder press 4 sets 8-10 reps
Lateral/side raises 4 sets 8-10 reps
Shrugs 4 sets 8-10 reps
Skull crushers ez bar 3 sets 10-12 reps
Barbell curls ez bar 3 sets 10-12 reps

I do this twice a week.

What do you think about the volume guys? Too high or ok? I do seem to be recovering ok. I have 2-3 days rest before repeating.

Lower body routine:


Squats 4 sets 8-10 reps
Seated leg curls 4 sets 10 -15 reps
Seated leg extensions 4 sets 10-15 reps
Calves 4 sets 10-15 reps
Abs

Lower body I try to do twice a week but sometimes only once as I find my legs take longer to recover.

Any advice or this look ok guys. Just want to make sure I'm getting optimal results from my training.

Thanks.


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## ausmaz

jaymz1975 said:


> Thanks for all of your comments guys, I really appreciate it. I would 'like' them all but I've ran out of likes for today. Apparently I only have 10 a day? But thanks for the advice.
> 
> I think that as my current routine is working, (upper/lower split) I'm going to stick with this. I'd hate to switch to another routine and it not work as well.
> 
> My current routine looks like this for upper body:
> 
> 
> Bench press 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Incline press 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Seated rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Lat pull downs 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Dead lifts 4 sets 6-8 reps
> Shoulder press 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Lateral/side raises 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Shrugs 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Skull crushers ez bar 3 sets 10-12 reps
> Barbell curls ez bar 3 sets 10-12 reps
> 
> I do this twice a week.
> 
> What do you think about the volume guys? Too high or ok? I do seem to be recovering ok. I have 2-3 days rest before repeating.
> 
> Lower body routine:
> 
> 
> Squats 4 sets 8-10 reps
> Seated leg curls 4 sets 10 -15 reps
> Seated leg extensions 4 sets 10-15 reps
> Calves 4 sets 10-15 reps
> Abs
> 
> Lower body I try to do twice a week but sometimes only once as I find my legs take longer to recover.
> 
> Any advice or this look ok guys. Just want to make sure I'm getting optimal results from my training.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Like you've already said mate, if its working for you... keep goin! That said, i think the only question id ask is why youd do 30+sets for upper body..... yet only about 16 for lower body?


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## Kill Kcal

I think you'd be surprised in regards to training for strength, you'll certainly add mass.


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