# Cutting Carbs While Bulking - Your Thoughts



## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Guys,

I am 5 weeks into my cycle, have put on a lot of weight but also due to the amount of food and carbs I am eating I also feel bloated and holding weight around the stomach.

For the last week nearly now apart from Sundays (cheat day) I have knocked carbs on the head with only having 50g oats pre workout and 50g maltodextrin post workout. The idea just to slim up a bit.

I was worried this will knock my workouts due to the lack of energy, however as im getting approx 10 hours of sleep a night and all i do all day is sit on my sofa on the laptop I dont think i need as much carbs to fuel my workouts. My lifts are going up and Im never tired in the gym.

I am curious to know if its simply my body doesnt need as much carbs as most and will this lower amount of carbs affect my muscle gains?


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

I think intially you could get away with those amounts of carbs but after a while you lifts will start to suffer as you deplete if you carried on with the low carbs.Why dont you cycle your carbs would make sense while bulking if your feeling sluggish /bloated as this way would keep your overall weekly carbs less than normal but it would still provide just enough energy to fuel your work outs.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

bbeweel said:


> I think intially you could get away with those amounts of carbs but after a while you lifts will start to suffer as you deplete if you carried on with the low carbs.Why dont you cycle your carbs would make sense while bulking if your feeling sluggish /bloated as this way would keep your overall weekly carbs less than normal but it would still provide just enough energy to fuel your work outs.


I was thinking about cycling them slightly. I was thinking on workout days havign a meal with lots of carbs in. On non workout days it will be minimal carbs. Then on Sunday I will be having a high carb day.

My diet was quiet normal for carb intake but i feel i just dont need as much carbs as normal. I think for me a low to medium carb intake while bulking is sufficient but i suppose only experimenting with my diet will tell.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

i am trying to lean bulk now cycling carbs mate. On workout days i have around 200g carbs this includes pwo shake etc on non workout days i have around 120-150 carbs.

then sat night is cheat meal etc.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> i am trying to lean bulk now cycling carbs mate. On workout days i have around 200g carbs this includes pwo shake etc on non workout days i have around 120-150 carbs.
> 
> then sat night is cheat meal etc.


IVe got to experiment with carb cycling. Tomorrow I will go for high carbs and basically put as much carbs in me as poss. Then after that I will reduce the carbs to just pre and post workout.


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

what about replacing carbs with (good) fats?


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

gerg said:


> what about replacing carbs with (good) fats?


I do get a lot of good fats from things like extra olive oil with every meal. Sometimes mixed nuts. I havent got the numbers breakdown but it seems enough.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

cycling definitely sounds the way forward here - it would be a shame to kill off your workouts while on..


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

i do exactly the same - am now cycling (but with higher carbs) - so workout days I have higher carbs, lower them on the non workout days and have one cheat(ish) day - feel far less sluggish an bloated than last time i tried bulking up

definately recommend...as your body adapts or you feel your making no progress on the weights etc etc - then - I will up the carbs slightly again - but just a bit - will take a bit longer but am guessing I will keep feeling better and also gain weight a bit more slowly thus making it a touch easier to keep


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

chilisi said:


> i did this mate and i got some good gains in my fatloss and muscle gain.i didnt get as big due to the lack of carbs but with the extra fatloss i look alot better for it.
> 
> im trying a carb cycling diet now...seems to be going well so far.


What I couldnt work out is to start carb cycling now while on gear or wait till after PCT where I can strip off the fat and not hinder any muscle gains while im on.

Just a bit uncomfortable with the weight around the mid section at the moment. Totally losing the v taper but it could be all in my head.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Lift heavy and eat enough protein and you'll put on muscle. But you need a small amount of carbs to spare the protein you eat - to stop your body turning it into energy rather than amino-acids for muscle growth.

Additionally you need just sufficient carbs and fats to provide the energy required by your normal metabolic rate and your workouts.

It's a mistake just to shovel in carbs and fats to a certain notional daily calorie level: if you eat too many calories for the energy you expend you'll simply get fatter.

Eating good fats and only moderate carbs tends to train the body to use its own fat reserves first, but if you're supplementing with nuts and extra olive oil, you're most likely to need even less carbs.

The balancing act is to have enough energy for intense work-outs but not put on flab!


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## South Champ Jnr (Mar 26, 2008)

Carb cycling is a great way to bulk up. Chris Aceto writes about it in a lot of his articles he discussthe importance of when bulking having days of low carbs just like when your dieting/cutting you have re-feed days where carbs are higher, to replace muscle glycogen and to kick start metabolism. The way i understand it at the end of the day gear or no gear there is still a maximum amount of carbs the body can take in as the carbs turn into glycogen and there is only so much glycogen the muscles and liver can hold once its full it gets stored elsewhere as bodyfat.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> Lift heavy and eat enough protein and you'll put on muscle. But you need a small amount of carbs to spare the protein you eat - to stop your body turning it into energy rather than amino-acids for muscle growth.
> 
> Additionally you need just sufficient carbs and fats to provide the energy required by your normal metabolic rate and your workouts.
> 
> ...


Cheers mate. Im having a high carb day today as last 4/5 days have been very low carbs. I feel totally fine on the low carbs which i did not expect and also felt a lot more comfortbale. I have had 2 meals today and all ready i feel bloated!

So far I have had:

50g whey, 100g oats

275g steak mince, 250g cooked rice, 150g brocoli, 10g extra olive oil

The rest of the day I will have the following:

275g steak mince, 250g cooked rice, 150g brocoli, 10g extra olive oil

250g chicken, 250g cooked rice, 150g brocoli, 10g extra olive oil, 150g pineapple

50g whey, 50g oats (pre workout)

75g whey, 50g malto (post workout)

Lean steak mince chilli including 300g mince, 300g cooked rice

100g protein bar, 150g pineapple

75g casein protein with 500ml semi skimmed milk before bed

My diet on low carbs has been the same as above but without all the rice basically


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

looks good mate see how you find it.

Im keeping carbs around 150 on non training days and 200 on training days. these are not exacts just rough but its working so far.

i then have a cheat one night a week maybe 2 nights depending


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> looks good mate see how you find it.
> 
> Im keeping carbs around 150 on non training days and 200 on training days. these are not exacts just rough but its working so far.
> 
> i then have a cheat one night a week maybe 2 nights depending


Coming up to pre workout meal and I just feel really fat and bloated! Im actually looking forward to dropping the carbs for tomorrow.

Im lucky Im only doing this for one day! I just dont think i need a lot of carbs


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

50 protein 50 carb 30 fat X5-10 meals depending on how you grow IMO is an easy way to control your body weight gains.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Con said:


> 50 protein 50 carb 30 fat X5-10 meals depending on how you grow IMO is an easy way to control your body weight gains.


Blimey this is a lot of experimenting with my diet! Cheers Con. I will find the optimum carb intake one day! I find it very easy to put on weight but then also finf it easy to put on body fat aswell. Then again I can lose it easily!

At the moment im thinking medium carbs on workout days and low carbs on non workout days. I never feel tired in the gym so should be ok


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## dingosteve (Apr 26, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> Lift heavy and eat enough protein and you'll put on muscle. But you need a small amount of carbs to spare the protein you eat - to stop your body turning it into energy rather than amino-acids for muscle growth.
> 
> Additionally you need just sufficient carbs and fats to provide the energy required by your normal metabolic rate and your workouts.
> 
> ...


I agree if i look at something with crabs in it i bloat , i dunno why, so i keeps carbs to minimum, prolly why somedays i feel tired but everytime i hit the carbs i pile weight on, i dont eat white pasta its all wholegrain carbs i eat, jus the way my stoopid body copes with em


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

willsey4 said:


> Blimey this is a lot of experimenting with my diet! Cheers Con. I will find the optimum carb intake one day! I find it very easy to put on weight but then also finf it easy to put on body fat aswell. Then again I can lose it easily!
> 
> At the moment im thinking medium carbs on workout days and low carbs on non workout days. I never feel tired in the gym so should be ok


Personally when i am not on a diet i can tell when i have enough carbs in me because i feel full muscle wise and i can usually tell some water retention at that time i know its time to lower carbs for a day or two.

The DC method works well also, no carbs at all past 6pm, if you train past then have carbs pwo but no more than that. This is a very open ended diet that makes it very simple. But you need carb/protein and fat/protein meals you shouldnt add them together.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Con said:


> Personally when i am not on a diet i can tell when i have enough carbs in me because i feel full muscle wise and i can usually tell some water retention at that time i know its time to lower carbs for a day or two.
> 
> The DC method works well also, no carbs at all past 6pm, if you train past then have carbs pwo but no more than that. This is a very open ended diet that makes it very simple. But you need carb/protein and fat/protein meals you shouldnt add them together.


Cheers Con, will give it a go. Awesome results in your comp btw, very impressed.


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## bigchris85 (Oct 30, 2008)

are you drinking enough water? maybe digestive enzymes will help also with he bloated feeling? i think were roughly the same height/weight, with lots of good fats and lots of rest you'd be suprised on how little carbs you need for energy and growth


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

dingosteve said:


> I agree if i look at something with *crabs* in it i bloat , i dunno why, so i keeps carbs to minimum, prolly why somedays i feel tired but everytime i hit the carbs i pile weight on, i dont eat white pasta its all wholegrain carbs i eat, jus the way my stoopid body copes with em


I dont like Crabs either!!!


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

bigchris85 said:


> are you drinking enough water? maybe digestive enzymes will help also with he bloated feeling? i think were roughly the same height/weight, with lots of good fats and lots of rest you'd be suprised on how little carbs you need for energy and growth


How tall are you and how much you weight?


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## bigchris85 (Oct 30, 2008)

im 6'5 20st3 im in essex aswel mate, train at hercules


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## dingosteve (Apr 26, 2009)

willsey4 said:


> I dont like Crabs either!!!


LMAO!! no they jus as bad as a carbs :thumb:


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

bigchris85 said:


> im 6'5 20st3 im in essex aswel mate, train at hercules


Im 6ft 2" at 20 stone 8 atm.

Will be coming up to Hercules soon to train with Provider from here and Goose. Also hoping to have a word with Scott.


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## bigchris85 (Oct 30, 2008)

he's always about mate  ive dropped my carbs for the cycle im on now, and feel more energetic, def not as bloated, your workouts should only realy suffer if your doing alot of cardio and are in single digit bf figures


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## bbeweel (Oct 7, 2008)

Some really good advice on this thread


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## noel (Dec 30, 2005)

I think its just something you kinda learn as you get a bit older and wiser - used to eat too many carbs for the sake of 'weight gain' and the bloat made me feel lethargic - makes cardio worse/harder etc and not clever Im sure - now I just use smaller increases - feel miles better - and just bump up the fats on lower days and the carbs on the lifting days -

agree great thread ;-)


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Cheers guys. It really is a balancing act to get to know your body and what works best for you. I wonder how long it took Tom B, Paul S, James L etc to know how their body reacts. And the worse thing is I suppose you need to stick to each diet for a minimum of 4 weeks to see any sort of result before you change your diet round.

Im back to lowish carbs today. HAd 250g of cooked rice this morning and wont have carbs till this evening meal where i will have 200g of potatoes. Also been on a 2 hour cycle ride today and still got energy!


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Con said:


> Personally when i am not on a diet i can tell when i have enough carbs in me because i feel full muscle wise and i can usually tell some water retention at that time i know its time to lower carbs for a day or two.
> 
> The DC method works well also, no carbs at all past 6pm, if you train past then have carbs pwo but no more than that. This is a very open ended diet that makes it very simple. But you need carb/protein and fat/protein meals you shouldnt add them together.


Yeah the DC carb curfew is really good; that's what I'm following atm. I'm an endo and it's pretty good for staying lean.

Dante doesn't split up his carbs and fats though; he has lots of fat all throughout the day and just drops the carbs after 6/7pm.


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## jonti1leg (Sep 21, 2008)

cracking thread


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

not a good idea to cut them totally of course but tapering back on them sure - if your weighing your food then all you need to do is trim back perhaps 25g of oats or rice per meal and see what that yields do it till you achieve your desired look


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

laurie g said:


> not a good idea to cut them totally of course but tapering back on them sure - if your weighing your food then all you need to do is trim back perhaps 25g of oats or rice per meal and see what that yields do it till you achieve your desired look


Yeah a good way would be to have 3 carb meals on training days (brekkie, pre-wo, PPWO) as well as a PWO shake with carbs, then on non-training days have 1-3 carb meals at the start of the day, cutting them out completely later on.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

my advantage is that i train early afternoon so i always cut my carbs by 6ish.

On training days my 6pm meal will have 30g carbs in from oats but on non training days it will have no cabr si will replace the oats with olive oil so only first 3 meals of the day have carbs.

I have been having between 100-150 non training days and around 200 training days and im feeling pretty good.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> my advantage is that i train early afternoon so i always cut my carbs by 6ish.
> 
> On training days my 6pm meal will have 30g carbs in from oats but on non training days it will have no cabr si will replace the oats with olive oil so only first 3 meals of the day have carbs.
> 
> I have been having between 100-150 non training days and around 200 training days and im feeling pretty good.


I can maintain condition on about 300g carbs and 4300cals atm and I'm an endo. It's all about finding the balance that allows you to gain lean mass and maintain your condition IMO.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

very true im just halfway thru a rebound so im waiting for my body to settle so i can workout out the daily needs exactly then tweak them.


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## pob80 (Jun 28, 2006)

personally I would keep the carbs up and throw in some cardio your tall with a big frame and need higher carbs at this time carb cycling imo is best left till dieting its not rocket science you want to grow like a beast you have to eat like a beast spesh being the size you are to fill your frame out


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## Titchy Dan (May 14, 2009)

Very informative.... thanks for the orginal post Willsey!


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

I hope this gives you an idea of the right amount of carbs to eat:

The Story of Goldilocks and the Three Bears

Once upon a time, there was a little girl named Goldilocks. She went for a walk in the forest. Pretty soon, she came upon a house. She knocked and, when no one answered, she walked right in.

At the table in the kitchen, there were three bowls of porridge. Goldilocks was hungry. She tasted the porridge from the first bowl.

"This porridge is too hot!" she exclaimed.

So, she tasted the porridge from the second bowl.

"This porridge is too cold," she said

So, she tasted the last bowl of porridge.

"Ahhh, this porridge is just right," she said happily and she ate it all up.

After she'd eaten the three bears' breakfasts she decided she was feeling a little tired. So, she walked into the living room where she saw three chairs. Goldilocks sat in the first chair to rest her feet.

"This chair is too big!" she exclaimed.

So she sat in the second chair.

"This chair is too big, too!" she whined.

So she tried the last and smallest chair.

"Ahhh, this chair is just right," she sighed. But just as she settled down into the chair to rest, it broke into pieces!

Goldilocks was very tired by this time, so she went upstairs to the bedroom. She lay down in the first bed, but it was too hard. Then she lay in the second bed, but it was too soft. Then she lay down in the third bed and it was just right. Goldilocks fell asleep.

As she was sleeping, the three bears came home.

"Someone's been eating my porridge," growled the Papa bear.

"Someone's been eating my porridge," said the Mama bear.

"Someone's been eating my porridge and they ate it all up!" cried the Baby bear.

"Someone's been sitting in my chair," growled the Papa bear.

"Someone's been sitting in my chair," said the Mama bear.

"Someone's been sitting in my chair and they've broken it all to pieces," cried the Baby bear.

They decided to look around some more and when they got upstairs to the bedroom, Papa bear growled, "Someone's been sleeping in my bed,"

"Someone's been sleeping in my bed, too" said the Mama bear

"Someone's been sleeping in my bed and she's still there!" exclaimed Baby bear.

Just then, Goldilocks woke up and saw the three bears. She screamed, "Help!" And she jumped up and ran out of the room. Goldilocks ran down the stairs, opened the door, and ran away into the forest. And she never returned to the home of the three bears.

It`s a fine line to get the balance right. I used to eat high carbs diet post comp and off season, and have cheat meals daily, which tend to blow me up. Carrying 3 stones plus off season is uncomfortable and not pleasing to look at either at my 5`6" height. Anyway, I go by the rule of 1-2g of carbs a day now, depending how I feel I throw in a high carb day every 3 or 5 days, Use scales once a week, and monitor by mirror daily,am/pm.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Cheers Guys. Atm I think its best just to reduce the carbs slightly. Instead of eating carbs at every meal ive cut carbs from one of my midday meals and trying to eat just chicken omlettes in the evening about 9pm.

Im also trying to get some form of physical activite in every day. If its not weights its some light cardio or a bike ride for a couple of hours. I think its helping. I feel smaller round the waist and less bloated.

As Pob said I think i do need to keep the carbs moderately high as I have a big frame and need to fill it.

I will weight myself first thing in the morning to see the difference (if any). I was 288lb last week so will be intresting to see what I weight this week taking into consideration the lower carbs and increased cardio.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Well as my previous post states I weighed myself this am after going to the toilet on an empty stomach and was 290lb!

I was very surprised at this considering I feel smaller, im not as bloated, i have been on low carbs most of the week etc. I was expecting a 3-4lb decrease in weight!

Either i havent lost any body fat or im gaining good muscle!

300lb here I come then!!!


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

more proof that loadsa carbs/cals are not needed to grow. keep it up mate and keep us updated.

how many carbs you having non training and training days?


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> more proof that loadsa carbs/cals are not needed to grow. keep it up mate and keep us updated.
> 
> how many carbs you having non training and training days?


Havent worked out the numbers breakdown but food wise:

Workout days (can vary but this is what im doing today):

Meal 1: 50g oats

Meal 2: 250g cooked rice

Meal 3: No carbs

Meal 4: 250g cooked rice

Pre workout: 50g oats

Post: 50g malto

Meal 5: No carbs

Meal 6: 200g Pineapple

Non workout days take the same structure but will not have carbs pre or post workout obviously and then only have rice with one meal and mayeb not have the oats in the am.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

careful you dont go to low tho at your weight pal. Make sure you have a refeed day/high day ever 3-5 days i would suggest maybe on a laging bodypart or total rest day


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

I agree with Pob.. Keep the carbs up an cals high just do some cardio PWO for 30 mins.. I did this and it helps greatly.. nor did I lose weight from it.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> careful you dont go to low tho at your weight pal. Make sure you have a refeed day/high day ever 3-5 days i would suggest maybe on a laging bodypart or total rest day


Im leaning towards keeping the carb intake the same as above on workout and non workout days. Reason being im doing a lot more cardio now and cycling now the weather is better.

When i have an extra 250g of rice a day plus say 250g of potatoe in the evning meal i feel too bloated so cutting down on 2 of the meals should be ok.

I will try and keep to this for the next week until weigh in day on tues and monitor the results.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

chilisi said:


> ive cut my carbs down drastically this year and feel stronger and more leaner than ever before... granted i would be bigger adding more carbs in but id also be alot bulkier which is what im trying to avoid.....bulking nad cutting and the same time is finally paying off
> 
> ive been running the carb cycling diet for just over 3 weeks now and feel good.
> 
> :thumb:


good stuff mate what are your low medium and high numbers like for carbs etc


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

good article on this here...http://http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_8_20/ai_98539290/


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## stl (Apr 12, 2009)

:thumbup1: Link fix: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_8_20/ai_98539290/


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