# immigration.. and them bloody Muslims.



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.

At the last census in 2010 there were approximately 7 million forein born resident in the uk, so probably around the same figure as brits living abroad. This equated to 11% of the population, compared to Australia's 23%. Even though the anti immigration crew use australia as a benchmark of how we should set our policy lol.

Inb4 but we don't go there and rape their benefits and resources'

Maybe not but we went there and raped the economy's, land, social structures and forced Christianity down their throats while we occupied alot of them for decades, persecuted them and made them second class citezens like in South Africa only a few decades ago!

We buy and encourage our media to spin their bias **** in a pot, stiring up racial segregation and slowly making racism socially acceptable once more. Instead of slating the government (who you vote for and let control our country) for making our tax money freely available for anyone that wants it, we, the media and now even party's like ukip direct the hate and frustration on the immigrants themselves who of course are going to come here for a better life, wether they work or not is irrelevant. We bark up the wrong tree.

Let's just remember that if other countries in the EU pull the plug and go independant, unless they make special legislations for us all the brits that have moved, got jobs and made lives for themselves will all have to come home. I don't know about you lot, but i think that's a bit unfair.

Specifically however, it's the 'muslim' brigade that most worry me, every single day my Facebook is flooded with shares and likes of anti muslim propaganda. Why are mosques being built in our country? Let me tell you why, because as a so called free country people are allowed to practice their religion of choice, there are plenty of British born even white Muslims (shock horror) why should Mrs Smith have her Christian church but Mrs blogs can't have a mosque? Personaly I don't think neither Christian churches nor mosques should be built with public money on council land but done privately or pray and sing at home.

Then we come to sharia law 'taking over' seriously? Get a ****ing grip! The only sharia practices that take place in the uk are civil matters between family or business, it does not bypass Uk law nor do British white people have to have anything to do with it.

I live in East Kent where ukip have a pretty large following, we also have a very very high immigrant population around the

Margate area. But you know what really tickles my pickle? In my 26 years of existence I have never NOT ONCE been 'over run' by a black, an Indian, a pole, a Ukrainian, nor even the Muslims! Iv never had a job taken from me, never had a woman stolen, never not been able to rent accommodation, iv never had to succom to sharia law or live my life by the quaran. I have never not once had my life inconvenienced by a foreiner or person of another religion, and neither have the majority, yet the EDL and Britain first Malitia and all these other racist cvnt groups are rife. As I said, racism is now becoming socially acceptable once more.

Good morning all by the way, hope hope u have a nice Wednesday morning. I'll check back later to see how you are all getting on


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you

They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


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## SwAn1 (Jun 4, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.
> ...


I think the fundamental difference is the ozzies only let you in if you bring something to the table whereas pretty much anyone can come here. I'd sooner have 2 million affluent educated non work shy immigrants than 500k bums.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you
> 
> They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


I could say the same about Christianity and all other religions. I honestly can't see how Islam is any worse.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Good post tekkerz

But another religious thread on UKM? This will surely end well


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

SwAn1 said:


> I think the fundamental difference is the ozzies only let you in if you bring something to the table whereas pretty much anyone can come here. I'd sooner have 2 million affluent educated non work shy immigrants than 500k bums.


And that's absolutely rightly so! But, my issue is that it's the bums that are targeted not the government that give them the right to come here and free load. If somebody said hey you can move here we will give you a house, health care for your kids, money and food and security, if you have never had those things you are gonna jump at the chance, educated or not educated. I know I would


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

And here we go.............

Let's chuck religion and who is the best football team and we can have full non-biased and rationale debate


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Good post tekkerz
> 
> But another religious thread on UKM? This will surely end well


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> And here we go.............
> 
> Let's chuck religion and who is the best football team and we can have full non-biased and rationale debate


Margate fc will have their ****ing day I tell ya


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you
> 
> They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


Please tell us why you feel that they will *never* "move forward" with the rest of the world. Please use the Harvard referencing method for sources backing up your thoroughly well researched and obviously completely true statement.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Spot on. Every point.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

i blame MTV


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm seriously thinking of becoming a hippy and trying to restart a hippy movement in this country, free living and no prejudice, the human race has seriously lost it's way now we have all become slaves to the wage, think about why YOU are on this planet and what you want to experience before your time is up?


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Danjal said:


> Please tell us why you feel that they will *never* "move forward" with the rest of the world. Please use the Harvard referencing method for sources backing up your thoroughly well researched and obviously completely true statement.


I believe all religions or belief systems, when taken too literally or too seriously (they are story books FFS) will slow down progression. No reference here though. Just an opinion. I still believe everyone can do as they please though. Organised non-religion is as bad as organised religion IMO


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Tek, I think you are getting mixed up with hate towards a religion, and hate towards a race of people. Not agreeing with a religion does not make one a racist.

I agree with your other points though, I have always said about how the British migrate abroad. We totally wreck some country's.


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> I could say the same about Christianity and all other religions. I honestly can't see how Islam is any worse.


Try living in belfast, Islam is positively forward thinking compared to some of the firebrand crap that we get from the homophobic, bigoted, racist, peado, evolution denying, young earth society ...... And that's just the politicians and pastors.

Religion should be like ma5terbation - it's fine, generally a good thing but keep it private, out if schools and don't give it tax breaks.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Gary29 said:


> I'm seriously thinking of becoming a hippy and trying to restart a hippy movement in this country, free living and no prejudice, the human race has seriously lost it's way now we have all become slaves to the wage, think about why YOU are on this planet and what you want to experience before your time is up?


We're going to need a **** load more drugs then.... and unfortunately being drugged up and loving everyone can only last so long, then the herd will thin with people going off their rockers, then others that haven't gone off their rockers will stop taking the drugs because other people went off their rockers. Then we'll be left with a few die hard hippies who stink and nobody likes. Kinda like now.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Having lived in Australia as a legal immigrant I'm not sure the indigenous nationals have agreed the progress has been a good thing.

England would have fallen apart decades ago without immigration, I think most people realize that we need controlled immigration that brings in talent for the term they are required, but blocks people who don't want to contribute.

In my experience I've met far more unproductive and lazy Brits than I have immigrants, but I work in the city and I think 'most' companies choose talent over cheap labour or racial bias. Funny how UKIP doesn't have much traction here


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> In my experience I've met far more unproductive and lazy Brits than I have immigrants, but I work in the city and I think 'most' companies choose talent over cheap labour or racial bias. *Funny how UKIP doesn't have much traction here*


That's because their main party line doesn't include tax reductions for big business or wealthy individuals.


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

squatthis said:


> We're going to need a **** load more drugs then.... and unfortunately being drugged up and loving everyone can only last so long, then the herd will thin with people going off their rockers, then others that haven't gone off their rockers will stop taking the drugs because other people went off their rockers. Then we'll be left with a few die hard hippies who stink and nobody likes. Kinda like now.


Just feels like we're all trying to bring each other down, different ways of thinking opposing each other constantly, imagine what could be achieved if every member of the human race had a common goal and worked together to achieve it, kinda like communism but better lol!

From my perspective, most of this racial tension is just stirred up by the media to sell papers, of course you do get the odd nutter to fuel their fire (Leigh Rigby murder etc) which is unfortunate but happens on all sides.

I'm with Tekkers on this, lets all have a simple life and rotate sexual partners.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

cas said:


> Tek, I think you are getting mixed up with hate towards a religion, and hate towards a race of people. Not agreeing with a religion does not make one a racist.
> 
> I agree with your other points though, I have always said about how the British migrate abroad. We totally wreck some country's.


No it's the people im referring to that get mixed up mate, I know well the difference between country of origin, race and religion. But the anti immigration brigade is more often than not a front for anti muslim which is in turn a front for anti non - white. Atleast that's my observation


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Danjal said:


> Please tell us why you feel that they will *never* "move forward" with the rest of the world. *Please use the Harvard referencing method for sources backing up your thoroughly well researched and obviously completely true statement*.


your like a mix between Stephen Fry and Stephen King


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

MrM said:


> Try living in belfast, Islam is positively forward thinking compared to some of the firebrand crap that we get from the homophobic, bigoted, racist, peado, evolution denying, young earth society ...... And that's just the politicians and pastors.
> 
> Religion should be like ma5terbation - it's fine, generally a good thing but keep it private, out if schools and don't give it tax breaks.


This!


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## Dirk McQuickly (Dec 29, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.
> ...


refreshingly rational post. reps.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

MrM said:


> Try living in belfast, Islam is positively forward thinking compared to some of the firebrand crap that we get from the homophobic, bigoted, racist, peado, evolution denying, young earth society ...... And that's just the politicians and pastors.
> 
> Religion should be like ma5terbation - it's fine, generally a good thing but keep it private, out if schools and don't give it tax breaks.


did you hear the Nolan Show Last week, summarised all that is wrong with the world

https://audioboo.fm/boos/2186646-nolan-clashes-with-caller-over-muslims


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Danjal said:


> That's because their main party line doesn't include tax reductions for big business or wealthy individuals.


I assure you most of voting public in London would be better off financially on ukips policies. CEOs no. But 90% of the work force yes


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> but we don't go there and rape their benefits and resources'


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> I assure you most of voting public in London would be better off financially on ukips policies. CEOs no. But 90% of the work force yes


As I said, wealthy individuals who donate to political parties aren't considered to be 90% of the work force. I believe that what all the 1% protests were all about.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Danjal said:


> As I said, wealthy individuals who donate to political parties aren't considered to be 90% of the work force. I believe that what all the 1% protests were all about.


Cool. Not disagreeing with that but little to with the point we were discussing


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## M.I.D (Feb 11, 2014)

but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the muslims do here ? and protest 24/7 and moan about how they hate the country they live in??

No


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## staffs_lad (Mar 10, 2013)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you
> 
> They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


Whilst i agree, i'd also don't think it's healthy to single Islam out as the only "crack pot" religion, almost, if not all organised religions are detrimental to the improvement of our knowledge and understand IMO.

Although it wont happen in my life time i hope to see a shift towards it's eradication and the money, man power and time spent worshiping empty idols turned towards scientific study, teaching religion only as a (very important) historical reference.


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

barsnack said:


> your like a mix between Stephen Fry and Stephen King


That's a great compliment, thanks! :thumbup1:


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

barsnack said:


> did you hear the Nolan Show Last week, summarised all that is wrong with the world
> 
> https://audioboo.fm/boos/2186646-nolan-clashes-with-caller-over-muslims


Is that the girl who claimed wearing a hijab was against out constitution? The ignorance is astounding.


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

M.I.D said:


> but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the muslims do here ? and protest 24/7 and moan about how they hate the country they live in??
> 
> No


No ..... Although the aboriginals might have a different view on that.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.
> ...


I'd change your mates cos i don't get any of that.

I have lot's of mates from many different cultures, my bird is an Australian Indian.


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

MrM said:


> Is that the girl who claimed wearing a hijab was against out constitution? The ignorance is astounding.


click on my link and listen to the bit where shes on...its incredible...started complaining because she was staring at a muslim to begin with..really funny but not at the same time


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

M.I.D said:


> but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the muslims do here ? and protest 24/7 and moan about how they hate the country they live in??
> 
> No


What protests 24/7?? What problems do Muslims cause that are worse than problems Christians cause?


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## MrM (Feb 6, 2012)

barsnack said:


> click on my link and listen to the bit where shes on...its incredible...started complaining because she was staring at a muslim to begin with..really funny but not at the same time


I got it on my Facebook feed from the LAD group, I really despair for this place sometimes.


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## achilles88 (Aug 27, 2010)

Inb4 ukmuscle"edl" crew arrive


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Id love to know why what the british empire did in the 1800s gives any one a right to come here and bleed the country dry? Your right is the goverments fault and not the people because any one would take advantage of it but you cant blame normal hard working people for complaining when there been squezed of every hard earned penny yet see people walk into this country (and also the lay abouts who are born here) with there hands out.

Im not anti immagration what i am is anti free boarders we didnt need 1000s of plumbers, shop workers, warehouse staff, mechanics, builders ect who came and drove the working wage for skilled and lower paid jobs through the floor there was no need for them people were doing them jobs before and would have still done them if some one from abroad wasnt willing to do them for a pitance.

What we need was highly skilled immagrants to fill gaps in the job market ie - Australia, New Zealand and the usa.

As for religion dont see what thats got to do with people moving here for ecconomic reasons


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> What protests 24/7?? What problems do Muslims cause that are worse than problems Christians cause?


Mabey you should come live in my neck of the woods and see for yourself mate


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.
> ...


Excellent post - completely agree. I find the whole thing completely farcical to be honest. Nationalistic claptrap disguising itself as "patriotism"....an entirely different thing. I would absolutely describe myself as patriotic, i'm proud to be English - but that doesn't mean ignoring the things that are wrong with this country.

I had this debate recently with someone who is increasingly heading right wing. He spoke about the way we are being flooded with Romanian immigrants (Really? The facts don't back that up http://www.debatingeurope.eu/2014/02/26/waves-bulgarian-romanian-immigrants/ ), he spoke of his love of St George (Repeatedly) and how the current government was a discredit to his memory...and again - how disgusted he was that Romanians thought they could come over here, what was wrong with their country? England should be for the native English people!!!

So - being a picky type I had to bring him up on those points.... St George - really? Unless you're christian I fail to see what relevance a christian saint has. Ok so he's "symbolic" of England but it's entirely a story concocted by church leaders. St George was...somewhat ironically given how much the right wing organisations trumpet his name... born in Palestine to a Greek father and a Palestinian woman. There is no record whatsoever of him ever having set foot on British soil. And for the final slice of irony....there is a Muslim shrine to St George in Palestine, which appropriately enough, was used as an inter-denominational insane asylum. (http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/shrine-saint-george)

So for me - St George is fairly meaningless..i'm not a christian and I see no need to follow a christian story to give me any sort of hook to hang my patriotism on.

As for the idea that Romanians should stay away and let the "native people" of England have their country.... hmmm. Well let's see....if we look back at our earliest history we have Celts and Picts (who are basically also Celts) and Britons....who are also basically Celts. So technically then it's the Welsh, Irish and Scots that are the native people. Except for one small detail....Celts originate in Eastern Europe. So technically speaking - if we use the earliest settlers of this country as our measure - Romanians have as much right to be here as we do.

Unless you do what the more right wing groups do and proclaim anglo-saxons as the native people......which kind of makes sense as the Anglo Saxon period is essentially when any form of recognisable English nation was born. But there's a problem with that idea for the purists....Anglo Saxons are essentially a mix of predominantly germanic peoples from several different countries. By definition there is no such thing as pure bred anglo saxon - it simply can't exist. Anglo Saxons have always been a multinational people...although they shared a great many cultural traits...they were still in many ways multicultural.

So basically - since there was any kind of large scale recognisable settlement of the British Isles, there has been a large number of different nationalities and cultures living here and we are the desendants of that process. We are and always have been, a mongrel country (in the biological sense). Given that the very earliest settlers originated in Eatern Europe it seems ridiculous to now say we have objections to them coming here. We've always objected to people coming here...but that hasn't stopped it...Romans...Vikings...Celts..Anglo Saxons...and then later Africans, Indians. etc etc.

And as the OP shows - we do the same elsewhere. It utterly stuns me that the EDL have a "Ex Pat" wing....really?? You love our country so much you're prepared to ...erm....give up your nationality and live in another country whilst simultaneously complaining about immigration here. Right. Excellent. Facepalm simply doesn't come close to covering that.

As for the idea that Islam will never move forward...it has...albeit very much more slowly than many others. But still - all religions cling on to their old ways because that's where their core values are. Doesn't excuse the enormous catalogue of atrocities committed in their name of course... The Inquisition, Paedophile scandals, The Crusades to name but a few... Personally I abhor all religions; to me they simply seem to be political tools that use people's beliefs and faith as a too,l to subjugate them. But hey - maybe i'm being harsh.

I couldn't care less who we open our doors to - as long as they contribute to our society in some way. But if we're going o throw out the people that don't - let's include the British people that "sponge off the state"...or the British "grooming gangs"....

I grew up travelling round the world as a military brat - if there's one thing that process taught me it's that, when you get past the miasma of declared cultural hooha...people are basically pretty much the same wherever you go. They have the same dreams, aspirations and ultimately they're all just trying to get by as best they can. Race, colour, creed, religion...it's all blah. Unless of course you allow yourself to be dominated by those things to the extent that you spend your life hating others based on little more than fear and ignorance.

Doesn't sound like much of a life to me.......


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## Guest (May 28, 2014)

jason7474utd said:


> Id love to know why what the british empire did in the 1800s gives any one a right to come here and bleed the country dry? Your right is the goverments fault and not the people because any one would take advantage of it but you cant blame normal hard working people for complaining when there been squezed of every hard earned penny yet see people walk into this country (and also the lay abouts who are born here) with there hands out.
> 
> Im not anti immagration what i am is anti free boarders we didnt need 1000s of plumbers, shop workers, warehouse staff, mechanics, builders ect who came and drove the working wage for skilled and lower paid jobs through the floor there was no need for them people were doing them jobs before and would have still done them if some one from abroad wasnt willing to do them for a pitance.
> 
> ...


Agree, what we didn't need, was hundreds of thousands, of trade personnel, factory workers, and all of the above.

Why should and uk resident have to do 15 hour working shifts or be labeled lazy, as stated it's the employer who has taken such advantage, coupled with 0 hour contracts.

I've known someone who couldn't even sell there house due a property next door being filled with 15 Romanians, yes 15, which was rented, so these 15 Romanians were doing work a uk resident could have filled.

Another problem is where, employers have frozen or under paid workers, and nearly doubled there working daily hours, why the fuvk should someone work neatly 60 hr weeks for less than £300 take home :thumbdown:

What we need in this country is a points immigration system, where as when there is a shortage, a suitability qualified person then can come live and work,with his (family)


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

i love how the pro-immigration people act high and mighty declaring everyone who doesnt like it an idiot,racist etc...

can one of you people HONESTLY see the benefit of unlimited immigration into this country? apart from shortage of houses, nhs overcrowding, working wages dropped, tax money wasted on further benefits..

the BBC(love everyone) recently posted some facts about how even the WORKING immigrants still leave the country at a loss, due to housing benefit and other stuff they get due to the low incomes MOST of them have,

the reason you can pick holes in people anti-immigration is because not only can the 'dumb' ones see it the most being at the bottom of the economic pyramid but they cant construction a decent arguement so just vent alot, it doesnt mean there wrong.


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

kuju said:


> Everything you said












You can come over to my house and **** my sister


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

Hafpor said:


> Agree, what we didn't need, was hundreds of thousands, of trade personnel, factory workers, and all of the above.


It depends who "we" is. If we is you and me, the ordinary working people then yes. If "we" is the people who run the country, the bankers, CEOs, corporations etc then it's a different answer. The labour market is, as the name suggests, a market. Increase the supply and prices drop. Increase the supply of labour and labour prices drop. Now, who does that benefit? The people who have to graft for a living, or the people who make a profit out of those who graft for a living?


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

Ian_Montrose said:


> It depends who "we" is. If we is you and me, the ordinary working people then yes. If "we" is the people who run the country, the bankers, CEOs, corporations etc then it's a different answer. The labour market is, as the name suggests, a market. Increase the supply and prices drop. Increase the supply of labour and labour prices drop. Now, who does that benefit? The people who have to graft for a living, or the people who make a profit out of those who graft for a living?


this is THE ONLY reason its been allowed for soo long whilst all us normal people have been screaming to sort the borders out,

if your a rich old man that needs a massive cheap labour force, then all these cheap workers are a dream come true, **** everyone else who needs a job lol


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## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

Bravo Tekkers, finally people talking some sense on here.


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## naturalun (Mar 21, 2014)

I personally think religion is bullsht. Just another way to hate on people, some vindictive [email protected] invented it!! And I think it's a totally different scenario about us in Australia etc, for one there isn't any hatred there. I bet if I packed my bags and moved to Pakistan I'd be looked down on, targeted and victimised. Religion my ass... Anyone who lives their life by a religion need a reality check IMO.. But you all can believe whatever the [email protected] you wanna believe.


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## Guest (May 28, 2014)

Ian_Montrose said:


> It depends who "we" is. If we is you and me, the ordinary working people then yes. If "we" is the people who run the country, the bankers, CEOs, corporations etc then it's a different answer. The labour market is, as the name suggests, a market. Increase the supply and prices drop. Increase the supply of labour and labour prices drop. Now, who does that benefit? The people who have to graft for a living, or the people who make a profit out of those who graft for a living?


Yes I agree...

But I sometimes feel that the problem with Tekkers European map is that mostly if any Brits do move abroad then they do benefit the country the reside in, with a small majority doing summer jobs, wether in a gap year.. Even my own family members have moved to Canada, Australia, but have taken a skill and sold there own home to make such a move plausible. Just look at the ports in Northern France it's rows of male after male, just waiting to jump in. I didn't vote for the common market, and I personally want an end to freedom of movement

Countries listed are all Northern European, Canada , Australia, America. Don't know of anyone personally who is moving to Poland, Romania, Bulgaria or such..


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you
> 
> They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


Too much media mate. It's only the extremists you hear about that try to force their ways onto people and condemn those that don't follow their ways. It's a shame that these people give their own religion a bad name, I know a fair few muslims personally and they're some of the friendliest people you could meet. They're generally very accepting of other cultures, they just choose not to partake in certain parts of them.

All of the above could be said for any religion tbh.


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## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

why all you say makes perfect sense, it still doesn't get round the fact we go there to work, once accepted with good history little or no black marks on our names then we are allowed in usually on a working visa and do we not need money in the bank as well?.

they come here for the FREE everything and that's all they come here for they can be british hate preachers and still get the pass to come in and bring there 900 children with them

and like others have said their religions needs to catch up how we live now days.


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## Simspin (Sep 5, 2011)

I think more than a few on here just like to argue

And that's why they keep starting these stupid threads!


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## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> What protests 24/7?? What problems do Muslims cause that are worse than problems Christians cause?


we take money and skills and so on to their country and respect and move there because in general we love the country.

they come here to not work get free sh1t and still hate the country for not putting up enough shiny mosques and crap for them


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

b0t13 said:


> this is THE ONLY reason its been allowed for soo long whilst all us normal people have been screaming to sort the borders out,
> 
> if your a rich old man that needs a massive cheap labour force, then all these cheap workers are a dream come true, **** everyone else who needs a job lol


And if this hadn't happened, what would the rich old men do? They would move to the cheaper labour market instead, moving their profits and tax paid with them, along with tax paid by the labour market. That way, no jobs, no tax and business's abandoning their home workforce because they can get it cheaper elsewhere.


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## Guest (May 28, 2014)

On this note I'm off to work, on extremely low pay.

I get paid Friday, already know what I'll get..fuk all

I'm one of those lazy Brits, who has never been unemployed :clap:


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## gycraig (Oct 5, 2008)

IGotTekkers said:


> No it's the people im referring to that get mixed up mate, I know well the difference between country of origin, race and religion. But the anti immigration brigade is more often than not a front for anti muslim which is in turn a front for anti non - white. Atleast that's my observation


Considering anti immigration would mostly effect WHITE polish Latvian Romanians etc ?


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

> Two groups are generally believed to be clear beneficiaries of immigration - the immigrants themselves, who move from poor countries to ones where more opportunities are on offer, and the employers of cheap labour.


this is a good read aswell

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25880373

basically kick out all the non-EU immigrants AKA muslims lol and keep the polish who goto work 

problem solved.....


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

squatthis said:


> And if this hadn't happened, what would the rich old men do? They would move to the cheaper labour market instead, moving their profits and tax paid with them, along with tax paid by the labour market. That way, no jobs, no tax and business's abandoning their home workforce because they can get it cheaper elsewhere.


ah good point, im glad amazon, starbucks, most big companies and every bloody bank did it, as they pay loads of tax from the profits now they have cheap labour


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

Danjal said:


> Please tell us why you feel that they will *never* "move forward" with the rest of the world. Please use the Harvard referencing method for sources backing up your thoroughly well researched and obviously completely true statement.


Go hug a tree and buy.some fairtrade tea bags!! That is all i wont be replying to your next do goody goody answer. Have a lovely day.


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## sponge2015 (Aug 18, 2013)

My mrs is Romanian. Out if my three best friends 2 are Turkish and one is black. I live on a council estate in islington yet even I feel immigration needs to be greatly curbed.






This is where I live before people jump on the racist bandwagon from there 98% white area lol.

Even the Muslims round here will openly admit to me that they don't like English people (well most English people anyway as I'm English)


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

barsnack said:


> your like a mix between Stephen Fry and Stephen King


Thats not the name i had in mind.


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## RugbyLad (Feb 15, 2014)

So much I disagree with, I get so fed up of seeing stuff like this everywhere lol. Everyone is just listening to the media without thinking for themselves...


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

I think we should have open borders , so we can provide free housing , healthcare and benefits for the whole world , allow our culture to be destroyed out of some peculiar misguided guilt related to the lost British empire ,and we should all embrace Islam, because some Muslims are nice. Then we can live happily ever after. The end.


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

RugbyLad said:


> So much I disagree with, I get so fed up of seeing stuff like this everywhere lol. Everyone is just listening to the media without thinking for themselves...


most people who are really anti-immigration have actual life experience of it in some form, i find the ones that are pro mostly dont and actually use the media to have something to slate/look down on whilst having little real life knowledge,

someone wise and all knowledgeable give me some facts on how its benefiting us, as ive yet to see it...ever..


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

id also like to add, im educated(lazy speller before you start) have a degree, good job, money etc.. and immigration doesnt really affect me directly too much,

i just use my eyes and live near alot of people/places that are effected..


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## RugbyLad (Feb 15, 2014)

b0t13 said:


> most people who are really anti-immigration have actual life experience of it in some form, i find the ones that are pro mostly dont and actually use the media to have something to slate/look down on whilst having little real life knowledge,
> 
> someone wise and all knowledgeable give me some facts on how its benefiting us, as ive yet to see it...ever..


I don't understand either of your posts you have a difficult to understand writing style but I think you may have read my post wrong or at least that's the jist I'm getting? :confused1:


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## ScouseDrago (May 19, 2014)

Some good points raised. I am not completely anti immigration, but like many, I only accept people who come to work and only if they are needed. As has been mentioned, it is not necessarily the immigrants fault, if you were poor as, and a country like England said we accept all comers, come and grab your free money and free house, what would you do? Our benefits provide a better life than many can imagine in their home land. So its our policies that needs sorting. I was planning on moving to Australia and I needed to apply for a VISA, proof I had money to see me through until I found a job or proof of employment, then there is the background checks etc etc. All you have to do over here is get in on a plane and don't get on your flight out, you then campaign for the right to stay. Or you say your life is in danger back home.

Kick all sponger immigrants out.

Any hate preaching and you go. People say its a right to free speech but it is a danger to society.

Kick all sponger dole brits up the ass. (not including people who actually want a job)

If you move here you bring something to the table and you move with immediate family (wife, kids) if needed, not extended family plus 50.

If you open a business you employ local, not your friends and family to get them over here.

If you try to get in illegally you get put on the next lorry out.

Britain needs a firmer stance on immigration. Australia infamously refused a ship full to enter Aussie waters even under UN (useless) pressure. Spot on.

Religion? Rather not.


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## b0t13 (Jan 3, 2013)

RugbyLad said:


> I don't understand either of your posts you have a difficult to understand writing style but I think you may have read my post wrong or at least that's the jist I'm getting? :confused1:


i was speaking in general rather than asking you a specific question really although i quoted you, i was refering to you mentioning people get all their ideas from the media part


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

skipper1987 said:


> Go hug a tree and buy.some fairtrade tea bags!! That is all i wont be replying to your next do goody goody answer. Have a lovely day.


Alright kiddo, will do! 



skipper1987 said:


> Thats not the name i had in mind.


Oh dear, did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed?


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## RugbyLad (Feb 15, 2014)

b0t13 said:


> i was speaking in general rather than asking you a specific question really although i quoted you, i was referring to you mentioning people get all their ideas from the media part


Ha ok that explains the confusion, I understand your posts now lol


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## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

5 pages in, and yet no one has mentioned us Irish.......Result


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

You all seem to be debating if we'd be better off in or out of the eu, thats a close one but its not the question I'm afraid.

It's would we better off out with circa 50 mil per day in our pocket or better off in with buttons and dust


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

IGotTekkers said:


> What protests 24/7?? *What problems do Muslims cause that are worse than problems Christians cause?*


Flying Aeroplanes into buildings.


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

Your theories are based on experiences you had..We all know Margate is dead and hardly anyone wants to go there.Whereas london and the south is swimming in immigration.I hate standing in a school playground waiting for my children and not understand a single word being spoken..In my own born country that is unacceptable.


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## ScouseDrago (May 19, 2014)

essexboy said:


> Flying Aeroplanes into buildings.


Government set up


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

essexboy said:


> Flying Aeroplanes into buildings.


So all the Muslims got together and decided that they should fly Aeroplanes into buildings? It's was a 100% for vote, and every Muslim in the word was allowed to vote, and actually did vote. Is that what you're saying?

Or are you more likely using extremists of a religion to try and back up an unreasonable vilification of a whole religion and everyone within it.

A FEW Chritian Atrocities:



The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.


Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.


6th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners". Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.


Crusades- Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children).


Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ".


1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee.


17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers."


MORE HERE

It's easy to damn a whole group of people if you selectively pick parts for publication.


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## 222 (Feb 7, 2014)

Danjal said:


> So all the Muslims got together and decided that they should fly Aeroplanes into buildings? It's was a 100% for vote, and every Muslim in the word was allowed to vote, and actually did vote. Is that what you're saying?
> 
> Or are you more likely using extremists of a religion to try and back up an unreasonable vilification of a whole religion and everyone within it.
> 
> ...


Grow up!


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

222 said:


> Grow up!


I see your point, but I fear it lacks any, well... substance.

Plus, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be growing up for. Is it for asking a reasonable, yet extremely sarcastic, question of "did every Muslim vote to attack the world trade centre or was it a select few extremists?", and then pointing out that it is easy to vilify groups of people by making public the actions of extremists?


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

Danjal said:


> So all the Muslims got together and decided that they should fly Aeroplanes into buildings? It's was a 100% for vote, and every Muslim in the word was allowed to vote, and actually did vote. Is that what you're saying?
> 
> Or are you more likely using extremists of a religion to try and back up an unreasonable vilification of a whole religion and everyone within it.
> 
> ...


Not gone to your more here link but... Look when those things happened.. 17th century and earlier, not in this more 'civilised' era.


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## 222 (Feb 7, 2014)

Danjal said:


> I see your point, but I fear it lacks any, well... substance.


Thanks for the negative rep my friend. Grow up!


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

Dave1180 said:


> Not gone to your more here link but... Look when those things happened.. 17th century and earlier, not in this more 'civilised' era.


Ignorance isn't bliss.

*20th Century Church Atrocities*

*Catholic extermination camps*

Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]

*Catholic terror in Vietnam*

In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]

Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.

The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:

"Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....

*Rwanda Massacres*

In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.

Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

ScouseDrago said:


> Government set up


course it was!! fsssssss fairytale land.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Danjal said:


> *So all the Muslims got together and decided that they should fly Aeroplanes into buildings? * It's was a 100% for vote, and every Muslim in the word was allowed to vote, and actually did vote. Is that what you're saying?
> 
> Or are you more likely using extremists of a religion to try and back up an unreasonable vilification of a whole religion and everyone within it.
> 
> ...


Selectively pick parts? What is selective about mass murder?

I dont know, do you? I presume not.I wasnt damning a whole "Group" as you put it.I was pointing out an example carried out by Muslims.Your obviously very sensitive to any remarks that may appear to criticise Islam,as you scurry off to find examples of attrocities carried out in the name of another religion.

Whats your point? If one religion does it, its ok for another too as well?


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## skipper1987 (May 1, 2013)

makes me laugh all i see is people bringing up the christian crusades etc that happened a LONG TIME AGO!!!! BY doing.this they seem to think it makes it ok what other religions are doing today!! back then people were savages least our religion moved on unlike some!!! wont mention which ones or il be blasted a racist but for example the kind of religion who carry out female genital mutilation,forced marriage under age!! honour killings etc need i say more???


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

essexboy said:


> Selectively pick parts? What is selective about mass murder?
> 
> I dont know, do you? I presume not.I wasnt damning a whole "Group" as you put it.I was pointing out an example carried out by Muslims.Your obviously very sensitive to any remarks that may appear to criticise Islam,as you scurry off to find examples of attrocities carried out in the name of another religion.
> 
> Whats your point? If one religion does it, its ok for another too as well?


Sorry, I thought I made my point very clear.

You cannot judge an entire religion for the acts of the few. When you're talking about any religion you're talking about millions of people, the few people who are extremists and act out acts of terror in the name of their religion are not doing so because they are sanctioned by every individual within that religion. They're just ****ing nutters.

You pointed out acts that were carried out by individuals who were Muslims, not by Muslims as a whole. I pointed out historic tragedies to point out that many things have been done under the umbrella of religion, but it certainly does not mean that everyone in that religion supports the actions of those people.

*Simply put, the actions of the few, using their religion as a shield for their sadistic behaviour, does not mean that a whole religion should put on tria*


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

Danjal said:


> Ignorance isn't bliss.
> 
> *Rwanda Massacres*
> 
> ...


Africa... people being massacred... there's a surprise..


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

Danjal said:


> Ignorance isn't bliss.
> 
> *20th Century Church Atrocities*
> 
> ...


Excellent factual historic sources here. Everyone should know Hitler was Catholic too.

You see us evil Catholics love a bit of Jew murder and genocide. That's what we go to church for on Sundays to learn about. Its great you should come with me one day.

Not sure about the bit about that bloke who started it all though.

You know, Jesus, being a Jew himself who sacrificed his own life for the Jewish people, as well the rest of the world. Clearly just a front so we can get to do more killing.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Danjal said:


> Sorry, I thought I made my point very clear.
> 
> You cannot judge an entire religion for the acts of the few. When you're talking about any religion you're talking about millions of people, the few people who are extremists and act out acts of terror in the name of their religion are not doing so because they are sanctioned by every individual within that religion. They're just ****ing nutters.
> 
> ...


Ive read the Quran mate.I fully understand the agenda of Islam.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

ellingham said:


> My mrs is Romanian. Out if my three best friends 2 are Turkish and one is black. I live on a council estate in islington yet even I feel immigration needs to be greatly curbed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bird lives on White City Estate in White City, it's quite an ironic name as i'm usually the only white guy wandering about!


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

just a quick google search and here is what I find....

2014.05.27 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A dedicated Sunni straps explosives to his body and then detonates in a Shia mosque, exterminating seventeen rivals.

2014.05.26 (Benghazi, Libya) - A journalist is murdered for criticizing those fighting for an Islamic state.

2014.05.26 (Adamawa, Nigeria) - Boko Haram gunmen shoot twenty-one villagers to death.

2014.05.25 (Homs, Syria) - 'God generously makes possible' an al-Nusra suicide bomb attack in a Christian residential district that leaves twelve dead.

2014.05.25 (Jos, Nigeria) - Eight people watching a televised soccer game are pulled apart by a Fedayeen suicide car bomber.

2014.05.25 (Kirkuk, Iraq) - Fundamentalists bomb a shop selling alcohol, killing a dozen patrons and bystanders.

also..

A pig caused hundreds of Indians to kill one another in 1980. The animal walked through a Muslim holy ground at Moradabad, near New Delhi. Muslims, who think pigs are an embodiment of Satan, blamed Hindus for the defilement. They went on a murder rampage, stabbing and clubbing Hindus, who retaliated in kind. The pig riot spread to a dozen cities and left more than 200 dead.

forward thinking right there.

copied and pasted... check those dates.. slightly more recent hey?


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## ScouseDrago (May 19, 2014)

skipper1987 said:


> course it was!! fsssssss fairytale land.


More likely than the story that has been conjured up by the media and the US government. Ofcourse this is just my opinion.


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

get2big said:


> Excellent factual historic sources here. Everyone should know Hitler was Catholic too.
> 
> You see us evil Catholics love a bit of Jew murder and genocide. That's what we go to church for on Sundays to learn about. Its great you should come with me one day.
> 
> ...


See how ridiculous it is to blame a whole religion for the actions of those who are supposedly a part of it. That's my point entirely.


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## Riddar (Dec 20, 2011)

Can't stand religion.

Just look at all the aggro it has caused in this thread between a selected few, never mind the world.

Causes nothing but problems in my opinion, which is why I don't follow a religion.

They are all as corrupt as the other :whistling:


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

Danjal said:


> Sorry, I thought I made my point very clear.
> 
> You cannot judge an entire religion for the acts of the few. When you're talking about any religion you're talking about millions of people, the few people who are extremists and act out acts of terror in the name of their religion are not doing so because they are sanctioned by every individual within that religion. They're just ****ing nutters.
> 
> ...


It's not just the actions of a few though is it mate. Read the news today, a pregnant woman was beaten to death with bricks by her own family outside of the high court in Lahore while hundreds watched on. Her crime? She married someone her family disagreed with. So in broad daylight in the capital of the country a pregnant woman is effectively stoned to death and not one person tried to help her.

I agree the problem of Islam in this country is often over stated, but in countries like Pakistan most either take part in the extremism or tolerate it.

Now I couldn't really give a **** about any religion, it all seems a bit backward to me, but let's be honest in the present day ( not hundreds of years ago) Islam is a problem.


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

Danjal said:


> See how ridiculous it is to blame a whole religion for the actions of those who are supposedly a part of it. That's my point entirely.


 It is ridiculous when your sources to provide examples are too.


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

Good people can do good and bad people can do evil. But for good people to do evil -- that takes religion.


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## ScouseDrago (May 19, 2014)

We can point out the bad in all religions all day long.

High up in the catholic church the powers that be are raping/molesting etc young boys.

Muslims have extremists who blow themselves up so they can go to heaven with 100 virgins

Christians are preaching against the use of condoms in AIDs/HIV ridden parts of Africa.

Not all are like that of course. The regular man/woman is nothing like that.

Over and out.


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

ScouseDrago said:


> We can point out the bad in all religions all day long.
> 
> High up in the catholic church the powers that be are raping/molesting etc young boys.
> 
> ...


its either over or out mate... cant do both.. :whistling:


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

MR RIGSBY said:


> It's not just the actions of a few though is it mate. Read the news today, a pregnant woman was beaten to death with bricks by her own family outside of the high court in Lahore while hundreds watched on. Her crime? She married someone her family disagreed with. So in broad daylight in the capital of the country a pregnant woman is effectively stoned to death and not one person tried to help her.
> 
> I agree the problem of Islam in this country is often over stated, but in countries like Pakistan most either take part in the extremism or tolerate it.
> 
> Now I couldn't really give a **** about any religion, it all seems a bit backward to me, but let's be honest in the present day ( not hundreds of years ago) Islam is a problem.


These days Islam is all good among the trendy cool progressive crew.

You know, the same crew who's all in favor of gay rights (nothing wrong in that.)

But under islamic sharia law homosexuality is not only a sin, but a crime.

What am i missing?


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## ScouseDrago (May 19, 2014)

Dave1180 said:


> its either over or out mate... cant do both.. :whistling:


God said I can do both :innocent:


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

Danjal said:


> So all the Muslims got together and decided that they should fly Aeroplanes into buildings? It's was a 100% for vote, and every Muslim in the word was allowed to vote, and actually did vote. Is that what you're saying?
> 
> Or are you more likely using extremists of a religion to try and back up an unreasonable vilification of a whole religion and everyone within it.
> 
> ...


Going back 100s of years is a little far stretched, I'd of gone with the irish **** but then its not really in England is it(every other ****er wants to leave uk anyway) lol. And no you're right nowhere near all muslims wanted that to happen, I bet more than a 'select few' did though. I can't stand Americas false sense of patriotism myself, I'm sure a lot of muslims feel more strongly


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

M.I.D said:


> but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the muslims do here ? and protest 24/7 and moan about how they hate the country they live in??
> 
> No


Do ALL the Muslims do that?


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

Dave1180 said:


> its either over or out mate... cant do both.. :whistling:


There be x army in this here post captain


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Do ALL the Muslims do that?


what if he changed it to do any of them do it? or any of them try telling other brits that killing ozzies is good etc?


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> Good people can do good and bad people can do evil. But for good people to do evil -- that takes religion.


Oh really, so what religion did Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Pol pot, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Zedong and Che Guevara have then?

Oh of course thats it, they must never have been good people....


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> what if he changed it to do any of them do it? or any of them try telling other brits that killing ozzies is good etc?


We are in England, speak English please.


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> We are in England, speak English please.


what is it you don't understand?


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

get2big said:


> Oh really, so what religion did Fidel Castro, Josef Stalin, Pol pot, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Zedong and Che Guevara have then?


You didn't mention Hitler.

But all those men had religious beliefs,I saw fidel kiss a cross a few times..and most atrocities are carried out in the name of one religion or other.

Thinking about it most of those men thought they were a religion unto them selves.


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the muslims do here ? and protest 24/7 and moan about how they hate the country they live in??

you asked if All the muslims do that..

I said

what if he changed it to do any of them do it? or any of them try telling other brits that killing ozzies is good etc?

seems quite adequate English for a forum to me..


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> what is it you don't understand?


Your lack of respect for the fine language of this nation.


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## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

this is a forum, I'm not writing my memoirs...


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> You didn't mention Hitler.
> 
> But all those men had religious beliefs,I saw fidel kiss a cross a few times..and most atrocities are carried out in the name of one religion or other.
> 
> Thinking about it most of those men thought they were a religion unto them selves.


What were their religious beliefs then? Being a religion unto ones self is only really possible when you don't have one isn't it?


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

ScouseDrago said:


> Government set up


Actually it was all down to those damn lizard people again.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the muslims do here ? and protest 24/7 and moan about how they hate the country they live in??
> 
> you asked if All the muslims do that..
> 
> ...


Is it a minority or majority of Muslims that do this and do they speak on behalf of all Muslims?

This no different from me claiming you are a raging black murdering BNP neo-nazi because they are anti immigration too.

It's rather a childish rationale.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Is it a minority or majority of Muslims that do this and do they speak on behalf of all Muslims?
> 
> This no different from me claiming you are a raging black murdering BNP neo-nazi because they are anti immigration too.
> 
> It's rather a childish rationale.


That hasn't actually answered the question of do any of them do it over in Australia has it?

You are quite correct it is a minority, but the minority would very much like to think they are speaking on behalf of all Muslims I believe.

I think you'll find it is indeed quite different as I have not stated that I am against immigration so you have no grounds to make that comment.

I am all for immigration if... they integrate with society, they contribute to society and as a bare minimum speak the language.

They like to think they do speak for all Muslims I believe.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> That hasn't actually answered the question of do any of them do it over in Australia has it?
> 
> You are quite correct it is a minority, but the minority would very much like to think they are speaking on behalf of all Muslims I believe.
> 
> ...


Just as the neo nazis think they speak for the "Eng-ger-lish"

I assure you the English complain about the Aussie government. We aren't called whinging poms for no reason. There's very little violence. The sunny weather and good beers cheers most people out


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Just as the neo nazis think they speak for the "Eng-ger-lish"
> 
> I assure you the English complain about the Aussie government. We aren't called whinging poms for no reason. There's very little violence. The sunny weather and good beers cheers most people out


So they don't stand in the street preaching hatred?


----------



## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.
> ...


Where to start

Immigration should be:

Skilled Only (import in skilled trades we currently lack constantly reassessed best of the best)

+ temporary unskilled shortage (ie i have a greenhouse i cant fill the positions i need 200 workers for 6 months temporary visa)

+ Students

+ an extremely small Asylum allocation (the worst of the worst war torn families, not i can earn a few bob more in the UK my country is terrible)

Strict criteria and entrance controls

I am not against immigration i am against a free for all, why is it acceptable that 100's of unskilled european workers can just walk off a plane yet an indian,pakistani,chinese etc etc worker has to go through a stringent visa process? if we are going to band about racism that is racist

in regards to UKIP directing their hate at immigrants i am not sure thats correct i think you will find it was the Torries that had an all out advertising assault on immigrants telling them to go home, UKIP's stance is fair immigration Nigel Farrage even said on an interview i can understand why Europeans would want to come here, why wouldn't they.

UKIP are against the problem (The EU) not the immigrants themselves.....as has been repeated repeatedly they are not a racist party......unless of course the tabloids and labour election material is what you go by.

I agree on the points of being allowed to practise one's own religion and freedom to build what you want were you want (providing its privately funded).

i do not think racism has become socially acceptable again, i just think that politically correct do good'ers like to band around the racist card at any given opportunity and in doing so devaluing what an obscene act racism.

Racism is not acceptable in society FACT

What i find unacceptable to the same degree is watering down the meaning of racism by using it at a whim


----------



## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you
> 
> They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


That's not relevant why should they follow rest of the world each to their own, what make rest of the world right ? That's like me saying you should follow Islam but people should feel free to believe in what ever they want, as you can never please everyone


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> what if he changed it to do any of them do it? or any of them try telling other brits that killing ozzies is good etc?


Ofcourse not, all other countries demand respect lol. Anyone for a holiday in Saudi Arabia? Wouldn't bring your bikini girls


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> So they don't stand in the street preaching hatred?


Your doing the minority/majority thing again. Too much daily mail, chap


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

ASOC5 said:


> Where to start
> 
> Immigration should be:
> 
> ...


Very well put


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Tonk007 said:


> That's not relevant why should they follow rest of the world each to their own, what make rest of the world rights ?


Nothing makes the rest of the world Right.However if you are not Muslim.You in the eyes of Islam ARE wrong.An Infidel.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Your doing the minority/majority thing again. Too much daily mail, chap


I'm just pointing out what seems to be acceptable to one ethnic group is far from acceptable by another.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

essexboy said:


> Nothing makes the rest of the world Right.However if you are not Muslim.You in the eyes of Islam ARE wrong.An Infidel.


That right there is the main problem.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dave1180 said:


> I'm just pointing out what seems to be acceptable to one ethnic group is far from acceptable by another.


Even if there was a minority of English that did, what would that prove?

You are grasping at straws and grossly generalising again.


----------



## mig8888 (Jul 27, 2010)

Have you ever lived where there is a large Muslim community ?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

mig8888 said:


> Have you ever lived where there is a large Muslim community ?


Me? I used to live a stones throw from brick lane


----------



## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

essexboy said:


> Nothing makes the rest of the world Right.However if you are not Muslim.You in the eyes of Islam ARE wrong.An Infidel.


Well that's their view but as mentioned anyone should be able to follow what they believe in without being discriminated against

No ones right or wrong live & let live imo, would be a boring place if everyone did the same things


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> Even if there was a minority of English that did, what would that prove?
> 
> You are grasping at straws and grossly generalising again.


You've proved my point right there.. Even if there were a minority..

I'm not grasping at straws or grossly generalising at all, its a fact that public stoning for instance is accepted in some ethnic groups we on the other hand don't find that acceptable do we?


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

get2big said:


> What were their religious beliefs then? Being a religion unto ones self is only really possible when you don't have one isn't it?


Why would you want to know.But ok if you insist.

Fidel Castro was roman catholic and spent time with the pope..

Joseph Stalin was raised devout in the Greek Orthodox Church. His parents hoped he would become a priest. He became a religion-suppressing atheist instead.

Pol Pot did not believe in God but he thought that heaven, destiny, wanted him to guide Cambodia in the way he thought it the best for Cambodia.

Che Guevara was Christian in the days before he joined the Communist worldwide movement.

Mao Zedong and Ho Chi Minh were atheists and believed that religion was evil for mankind.

So you see on a fundamental level religion had something to do with who they were and what they did.


----------



## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

essexboy said:


> Nothing makes the rest of the world Right.However if you are not Muslim.You in the eyes of Islam ARE wrong.An Infidel.


The problem with Islam is the same problem that arises from Christianity...A literal interpretation of the text.

If you look at the Bible as a book on how to live your life and not as a factual history book there is some good content, which hundreds of years ago would be an invaluable source of information on how to live a good life.

The seven deadly sins although not a one way ticket to hell are applicable in everyones life, a life of lust and jealousy will not end well (just look at the recent tragedy in america he was consumed with lust and jealousy).

Religion was a way of life before there was Laws and structure, i don't agree with religion but if you read between the lines of it you can see why a thousand years ago it was required.

I do however fail to see why in Muslim holy text it is required that all infidel must convert or die, but again any right minded sane person would look at that and think in todays society is this section of text really relevant and notice that it is from a time when Muslims and Christians were at odds with each other (under the pretence that religion was real and worth fighting for)


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Even if there was a minority of English that did, what would that prove?
> 
> You are grasping at straws and grossly generalising again.


How can you possibly talk politics/statistics without generalizing?

And now we've gone down the muslim route I honestly can't think of another country where someone would be allowed to move there and preach hate. That wouldn't work in American,China,Russia, Japan,Australia, any eastern european country. Works here, people can legally burn our flag in a hateful manner while claiming our benefits. Its ****ing mental and I can't believe you all think its ok


----------



## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

I do mate, west end of Newcastle. It's an absolute nightmare. I was born and raised here but the place is an absolute slum now. I can't speak about what it's like in other parts of the country but honestly it's a hell hole around these parts


----------



## mig8888 (Jul 27, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Me? I used to live a stones throw from brick lane


No fella sorry, was meant for Tekkers.


----------



## Simspin (Sep 5, 2011)

mig8888 said:


> Have you ever lived where there is a large Muslim community ?


Yes I live in Bradford

Edit sorry just the tekkers bit!


----------



## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

ScouseDrago said:


> We can point out the bad in all religions all day long.
> 
> High up in the catholic church the powers that be are raping/molesting etc young boys.
> 
> ...


X2


----------



## chris4aka (Sep 15, 2008)

I blame creatine..


----------



## Simspin (Sep 5, 2011)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

essexboy said:


> Nothing makes the rest of the world Right.However if you are not Muslim.You in the eyes of Islam ARE wrong.An Infidel.


Just like the first commandment


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

Simspin said:


> View attachment 151558
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


link don't work..


----------



## Simspin (Sep 5, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> link don't work..


Think that fixed it


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

simonthepieman said:


> Just like the first commandment


The first commandment,"Worship no other God" Not quite the same as "Slay the infidels" is it?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dann19900 said:


> How can you possibly talk politics/statistics without generalizing?
> 
> And now we've gone down the muslim route I honestly can't think of another country where someone would be allowed to move there and preach hate. That wouldn't work in American,China,Russia, Japan,Australia, any eastern european country. Works here, people can legally burn our flag in a hateful manner while claiming our benefits. Its ****ing mental and I can't believe you all think its ok


I've never said it's ok. And I totally agree with you.

These people should be punished to the full extent of the law.

But on the fact they are **** people who happen to be using Islam as an excuse for their behavior. Not blame all Muslims because a small subsection of the largest collective on earth act in certain way.

I'm an atheist who does support religion in any way. But I respect I shouldn't dictate how others should live their life. However I don't believe in standing by and letting other people impose their beliefs on others too. Mine or theirs


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

essexboy said:


> The first commandment,"Worship no other God" Not quite the same as "Slay the infidels" is it?


It did in the crusades


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

simonthepieman said:


> I've never said it's ok. And I totally agree with you.
> 
> These people should be punished to the full extent of the law.
> 
> ...


Well thats the kicker my freind.That is exactly what the agenda is.


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe," Gadhafi said. "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe - without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

If Turkey is added to the European Union, the Libyan leader said, Europe will have another 50 million Muslims.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

essexboy said:


> Well thats the kicker my freind.That is exactly what the agenda is.


Isn't that religion as a whole?


----------



## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Fortunatus said:


> we take money and skills and so on to their country and respect and move there because in general we love the country.
> 
> they come here to not work get free sh1t and still hate the country for not putting up enough shiny mosques and crap for them


How many Muslims you see coming here for freebies? :/

Most I've seen are Kurdish etc and they work in car washes, barbers, even cleaning cars in traffic.

Don't see no "British " dole heads doing that.

The ones you see on tv preaching hatred are morons mate, most born here also that's brain washed.


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

simonthepieman said:


> Isn't that religion as a whole?


No its not.Its not a christian Jewish,or hindi agenda.


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I've never said it's ok. And I totally agree with you.
> 
> These people should be punished to the full extent of the law.
> 
> ...


Well I don't blame all muslims, you're all saying small subsection, I really don't think its as small as u all like to make out. I went out with a bird from some council estate in sheffield, They had a low level of sharia law there, If she was out in a lowcut top she got called a slut atleast 10 times in 3-4 months. One time i made a racist remark to 1, not proud of it but does that make me racist? No I just said what I knew would **** him off the most. Ended up in a fight and was paranoid I'd get some butlins time for racially agravated assult, but why should I? Him calling my mrs a slut isn't as bad as my slight racist remark? I've got black friends, can't have if I'm racist it would make no sense.

I've read the quran and in my opinion it makes more sense than the bible, but they seem to misunderstand it too often lol. And forgetting 'extremists' who blow **** up, lets be honest a devout muslim is backwards, they class women as second class citizens. A devout christian is no saint, he'll tell people they're going to hell for fk all but in general I think he'll lead a well behaved life


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

essexboy said:


> No its not.Its not a christian Jewish,or hindi agenda.


Lol. I don't even........

Anyhow I'm off to bed now. I'm currently holidaying in a relatively poor Asian nation still making a recovery from western oppression destroying its infrastructure because it had different ideologies to them and it's getting late now.

I've genuinely enjoyed debating with you all and found it a good learning experience in parts.

Stay positive


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Lol. I don't even........
> 
> Anyhow I'm off to bed now. I'm currently holidaying in a relatively poor Asian nation still making a recovery from western oppression destroying its infrastructure because it had different ideologies to them and it's getting late now.
> 
> ...


I'll say night because you're white, but you won't get another one if you come back with a tan


----------



## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

MR RIGSBY said:


> It's not just the actions of a few though is it mate. Read the news today, a pregnant woman was beaten to death with bricks by her own family outside of the high court in Lahore while hundreds watched on. Her crime? She married someone her family disagreed with. So in broad daylight in the capital of the country a pregnant woman is effectively stoned to death and not one person tried to help her.
> 
> I agree the problem of Islam in this country is often over stated, but in countries like Pakistan most either take part in the extremism or tolerate it.
> 
> Now I couldn't really give a **** about any religion, it all seems a bit backward to me, but let's be honest in the present day ( not hundreds of years ago) Islam is a problem.


That mate was cultural. Nothing Islam about that at all.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dann19900 said:


> Well I don't blame all muslims, you're all saying small subsection, I really don't think its as small as u all like to make out. I went out with a bird from some council estate in sheffield, They had a low level of sharia law there, If she was out in a lowcut top she got called a slut atleast 10 times in 3-4 months. One time i made a racist remark to 1, not proud of it but does that make me racist? No I just said what I knew would **** him off the most. Ended up in a fight and was paranoid I'd get some butlins time for racially agravated assult, but why should I? Him calling my mrs a slut isn't as bad as my slight racist remark? I've got black friends, can't have if I'm racist it would make no sense.
> 
> I've read the quran and in my opinion it makes more sense than the bible, but they seem to misunderstand it too often lol. And forgetting 'extremists' who blow **** up, lets be honest a devout muslim is backwards, they class women as second class citizens. A devout christian is no saint, he'll tell people they're going to hell for fk all but in general I think he'll lead a well behaved life


I for the large part agree with you on this. But the "some of my friends are black" line did make me chortle though.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dann19900 said:


> I'll say night because you're white, but you won't get another one if you come back with a tan


Lol. I'm lobster red, like a true Brit abroad


----------



## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

MR RIGSBY said:


> It's not just the actions of a few though is it mate.


Well yes, it is. There is an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Even if 500,000 of these people have committed crimes in the name of Islam then that is only 0.03125%. Should the remaining 1,599,500,000 really be blamed along with them?

Obviously the number of those committing crimes isn't correct but it is to illustrate a point.


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

simonthepieman said:


> I assure you most of voting public in London would be better off financially on ukips policies. CEOs no. But 90% of the work force yes





Danjal said:


> As I said, wealthy individuals who donate to political parties aren't considered to be 90% of the work force. I believe that what all the 1% protests were all about.


I disagree with this - flat rate tax is a proven enemy of the working man...


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

There's an interesting study to be had demonstrating the links between bodybuilding and being a bigot.


----------



## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

geeby112 said:


> How many Muslims you see coming here for freebies? :/
> 
> Most I've seen are Kurdish etc and they work in car washes, barbers, even cleaning cars in traffic.
> 
> ...


a much higher percentage than the low 0% that goes to Australia.


----------



## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

geeby112 said:


> That mate was cultural. Nothing Islam about that at all.


Ok mate I stand corrected. In all fairness though there are so many examples of Islam being twisted I could have used that it's pretty irrelevant. Sure there is a Pregnant Sudanese woman just been given the death penalty under Sharia law for converting to Christianity.

The thing is I'm not just bashing Islam for the sake of it. As I said before I think the threat from Islam in this country is often overstated. I'm also sure that a good proportion of Muslims are decent people. However I stand by what I said about Islam being a problem in the world today, there is no other religion CURRENTLY being used to justify the evil acts being committed worldwide in the same way Islam is.


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Ok mate I stand corrected. In all fairness though there are so many examples of Islam being twisted I could have used that it's pretty irrelevant. Sure there is a Pregnant Sudanese woman just been given the death penalty under Sharia law for converting to Christianity.
> 
> The thing is I'm not just bashing Islam for the sake of it. As I said before I think the threat from Islam in this country is often overstated. I'm also sure that a good proportion of Muslims are decent people. However I stand by what I said about Islam being a problem in the world today, there is no other religion CURRENTLY being used to justify the evil acts being committed worldwide in the same way Islam is.


Looking at cause and effect, if you trace this back you might find that is the fault of the Christian west. The 'War on Terror' (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one, killing for peace is like ****ing for virginity) created more Islamic militants that it ever killed - 10 times more in fact. Every drone strike that kills a child creates 10 jihadi militants. Sadly I fear America's arrogance has caused the rise in evil acts committed in the name of Islam (that, once again, come from a very small percentage).

If terrorism is people's reason for not liking Muslims (ridiculous as that is) do you think that given the reasonably-sized Muslim community we have in the UK we should be attempting to instate openly anti-Islamic parties? Not suggesting that it's right that they react, far from it, just seems odd that people are so scared of being attacked and the response is to elect a party than antagonise Muslim communities and perhaps eventually turn peaceful Muslim's against us. (all theoretical).


----------



## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

Danjal said:


> Well yes, it is. There is an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Even if 500,000 of these people have committed crimes in the name of Islam then that is only 0.03125%. Should the remaining 1,599,500,000 really be blamed along with them?
> 
> Obviously the number of those committing crimes isn't correct but it is to illustrate a point.


We'll as you've said. Those numbers are totally made up so, no it doesn't illustrate anything mate. I get what you're saying though, and as I have said you can't blame every Muslim for the actions of others.

As I have said though I stand by the fact that in the world today (not in the distant past) Islam is a problem. The number of crimes and atrocities committed worldwide in the name of Islam is ridiculous.

I'm not really talking about the UK in all of this, but look at Sudan,Syria,Nigeria,Pakistan,Iran,Afghanistan etc etc etc . There are hundreds of thousands being killed every year in the name of Islam.


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> Why would you want to know.But ok if you insist.
> 
> Fidel Castro was roman catholic and spent time with the pope..
> 
> ...


Ah right so it was all the religions fault. Despite them all rejecting religion If they had always been athiest and never heard of religion everything would have been ok. That makes so much sense :blink:


----------



## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

Tasty said:


> Looking at cause and effect, if you trace this back you might find that is the fault of the Christian west. The 'War on Terror' (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one, killing for peace is like ****ing for virginity) created more Islamic militants that it ever killed - 10 times more in fact. Every drone strike that kills a child creates 10 jihadi militants. Sadly I fear America's arrogance has caused the rise in evil acts committed in the name of Islam (that, once again, come from a very small percentage).
> 
> If terrorism is people's reason for not liking Muslims (ridiculous as that is) do you think that given the reasonably-sized Muslim community we have in the UK we should be attempting to instate openly anti-Islamic parties? Not suggesting that it's right that they react, far from it, just seems odd that people are so scared of being attacked and the response is to elect a party than antagonise Muslim communities and perhaps eventually turn peaceful Muslim's against us. (all theoretical).


I don't fear terrorism in this country anymore than I fear being stabbed by some drunk on a Saturday night. I'm not just talking about the worldwide problem posed by terrorists though (even though it is a problem) I'm also talking about the barbaric acts committed under the guise of Sharia Law worldwide.

I agree though that the west has to accept some blame for the rise of extremists, I don't accept that being anti-immigration makes you racist however.


----------



## Tasty (Aug 28, 2007)

MR RIGSBY said:


> I agree though that the west has to accept some blame for the rise of extremists, I don't accept that being anti-immigration makes you racist however.


It is often the case that the two go hand in hand - especially when facts are produced that show the benefit to the UK of immigration and people ignore them to suit an agenda, to me that looks like racism (not you, others).


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

Danjal said:


> Well yes, it is. There is an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Even if 500,000 of these people have committed crimes in the name of Islam then that is only 0.03125%. Should the remaining 1,599,500,000 really be blamed along with them?
> 
> Obviously the number of those committing crimes isn't correct but it is to illustrate a point.


jesus mate your figures are well off, I've just stated a entire council estate in sheffield was like that lol. You think I'm joking I'll ask her for the area later and u go see how many people call u a white prik if you wear a england shirt lol


----------



## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

Tasty said:


> It is often the case that the two go hand in hand - especially when facts are produced that show the benefit to the UK of immigration and people ignore them to suit an agenda, to me that looks like racism (not you, others).


Yes mate, the two often will go hand in hand but not always. Calling every UKIP voter racist is like calling every Muslim a terrorist. For every fact that supports immigration there is one to highlight the cost of it.


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

get2big said:


> Ah right so it was all the religions fault. Despite them all rejecting religion If they had always been athiest and never heard of religion everything would have been ok. That makes so much sense :blink:


You're not listening to me are you...Last time..OK.

These atheists fought against religion and persecuted those who believed in god.Thus making religion the underlying factor.


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> You're not listening to me are you...Last time..OK.
> 
> These atheists fought against religion and persecuted those who believed in god.Thus making religion the underlying factor.


Which religion though? Athiesm or the others?


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

get2big said:


> Which religion though? Athiesm or the others?


Atheism is a non belief in a religion,but those you mentioned persecuted others for the fact they had a faith..They wanted you to believe in what they said and to forgo your own beliefs ,if not they would kill you.So on that note RELIGION as a whole no matter what kind was the factor for many deaths.

All I am stating is that the dictators that you listed were led to commit atrocities because of that fact

And that is why I said it takes religion to make a good man commit evil.


----------



## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

dann19900 said:


> jesus mate your figures are well off, I've just stated a entire council estate in sheffield was like that lol. You think I'm joking I'll ask her for the area later and u go see how many people call u a white prik if you wear a england shirt lol


The entire council estate was like what? Muslim criminals? I highly doubt it.


----------



## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

Tasty said:


> It is often the case that the two go hand in hand - especially when facts are produced that show the benefit to the UK of immigration and people ignore them to suit an agenda, to me that looks like racism (not you, others).


No one disputes (skilled) immigration benefits the UK we all (even the idiots) know it does, without it the NHS would crumble, without it we would lack a science and engineering base as strong as it is etc etc etc

What i (as do many) dispute is (free for all) immigration does not benefit the UK as we do not need thousands of unskilled workers/non workers to put strain on our infrastructure and support systems.

people ignore this point to suit their agenda, to me that looks like ignorance


----------



## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

Surprised this thread hasn't been closed or deleted yet.

Anyone banned yet?


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

Danjal said:


> The entire council estate was like what? Muslim criminals? I highly doubt it.


Read my previous post, thats Racism, no not all but probably half. I only need to look at Saudi Arabia's 28 mil population to know your half mil figure is way off. Go there and write Jesus is your saviour on your head and see how that goes for you. In their defense though atleast their government doesn't fk about lol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27601042


----------



## digitalis (Sep 13, 2011)

dann19900 said:


> Read my previous post, thats Racism, no not all but probably half. I only need to look at Saudi Arabia's 28 mil population to know your half mil figure is way off. Go there and write Jesus is your saviour on your head and see how that goes for you. In their defense though atleast their government doesn't fk about lol:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27601042


Mate your talking to a proper dyed in the wool leftist there, nothing you say is going to change his bias. He's just going to try an make you define and explain your "racist" views until your justifying yourself to him. Then, when all his points have been addressed and rescinded, he'll just make strawman arguments, and make you explain and argue those.


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> Atheism is a non belief in a religion,but those you mentioned persecuted others for the fact they had a faith..They wanted you to believe in what they said and to forgo your own beliefs ,if not they would kill you.So on that note RELIGION as a whole no matter what kind was the factor for many deaths.
> 
> All I am stating is that the dictators that you listed were led to commit atrocities because of that fact
> 
> And that is why I said it takes religion to make a good man commit evil.


Its a nonsense statement mate. You could just as well say it takes atheism to make a good man commit evil.


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

get2big said:


> Its a nonsense statement mate. You could just as well say it takes atheism to make a good man commit evil.


 I give up..


----------



## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> I give up..


Fair play you tried though  Just curious you honestly think men wouldn't find reasons to kill one another and commit evil if religion didn't exist?


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

get2big said:


> Fair play you tried though  Just curious you honestly think men wouldn't find reasons to kill one another and commit evil if religion didn't exist?


To be honest I do ..Obviously not all bad things are down to that but a huge majority is.


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Think this whole threads got a bit stupid the op was stupid to start with stiring two debates

1 - religion

2 immagration

the two have nothing to do with each other as you can get people of all religions coming from different parts of the world it has nothing to do with the free boarders policy of the eu that suit big business owners and them alone and the very lapse british boarder controll.

two totally different arguments


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## get2big (Mar 9, 2013)

gearchange said:


> To be honest I do ..Obviously not all bad things are down to that but a huge majority is.


Fair enough, cant say i agree but we're all entitled to our own opinions.


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## Guest (May 28, 2014)

Danjal said:


> So all the Muslims got together and decided that they should fly Aeroplanes into buildings? It's was a 100% for vote, and every Muslim in the word was allowed to vote, and actually did vote. Is that what you're saying?
> 
> Or are you more likely using extremists of a religion to try and back up an unreasonable vilification of a whole religion and everyone within it.
> 
> ...


Lots of good quotes there, but nothing in the year 2002 :whistling:

Fair play 1500 years ago, nobody funking knew any better.


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## lufc90 (Mar 27, 2014)

The Muslims got wind of the 10k per month wages to be earned in the UK

That's why there is so many of them


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

jason7474utd said:


> Think this whole threads got a bit stupid the op was stupid to start with stiring two debates
> 
> 1 - religion
> 
> ...


My point of the thread has everything to do with each other as they come linked in regards to the people I am referring to. Those who are against muslims are also anti immigration. The 2 are hand in hand. And I don't see anything stupid about making people aware of the facts and an opposing opinion.


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## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> My point of the thread has everything to do with each other as they come linked in regards to the people I am referring to. Those who are against muslims are also anti immigration. The 2 are hand in hand. And I don't see anything stupid about making people aware of the facts and an opposing opinion.


Love how you start the thread, leave everyone to argue/debate and **** off all day, then come back at post 186 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

essexboy said:


> Flying Aeroplanes into buildings.


what makes the west any better youve killed thousands of innocent people since occupying countries

the west are just big bullies who pick on the weak/defenseless with their cronies


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## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

Simspin said:


> I think more than a few on here just like to argue
> 
> And that's why they keep starting these stupid threads!


Def too many ignorent racists on here, who most likely havnt achieved much in life & always blame others & just spend time spouting their usual hate nothing new on ukm


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## Guest (May 28, 2014)

Tonk007 said:


> what makes the west any better youve killed thousands of innocent people since occupying countries
> 
> the west are just big bullies who pick on the weak/defenseless with their cronies


You've :confused1:

@essexboy. Hasn't killed no one, to my knowledge :laugh:


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## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

Hafpor said:


> You've :confused1:
> 
> @essexboy. Hasn't killed no one, to my knowledge :laugh:


was refering to the west, im sure essexboy would if he could get away with it


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## Guest (May 28, 2014)

Tonk007 said:


> was refering to the west, im sure essexboy would if he could get away with it


Anyways, you can't speculate, I would do a lot of things if I could get away with it.

The west are big bullies who pick on the defenceless, I'm sure Jim Morrison stated the west is the best.

Can't argue with that :laugh:


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Tonk007 said:


> was refering to the west, im sure essexboy would if he could get away with it


No get away car


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## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

Heavyassweights said:


> No get away car


He can use his Porsche lol


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/sudanese-woman-death-row-birth-article-1.1806549

these guys are friendly too


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

DutchTony said:


> Surprised this thread hasn't been closed or deleted yet.
> 
> Anyone banned yet?


I think it's been a fairly civilised debate.

I've found it constructive.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

The problem with immigration and settling people from totally different cultures, religions there is little in the way of any form of integration policy - nothing zilch .

My personal opinion the onus should not be the native population - to become very educated about the immigrants - but the immigrants should be thoroughly educated about the culture and way of life of the country they reside in - a country that generally in Britain case provides more freedoms that their native countries.

I object when religious groups - including Muslims say we have to learn about their culture and religion - well WHY ??? i personally class praying 5 times a day every day to be an extreme !!

Britain should not cater to extreme religions that do not fit in with our culture and fabric of society - but we do as we do not want to offend- and this has fundamentally changed our society ??

For the better or worse ??

.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

As alluded to on the first page, there is a small but vocal minority of xenophobic people who are unable to differentiate and isolate between immigration, religion, race and in many cases logic. These are often the people use extreme outliers as a sense of the norm to justify an attack on the whole. I've been playing devils advocate a lot here, but that's part of exploring peoples views and understanding.

If you go back in time almost all religions have caused an inspired evil. Christianity, Judaism and Islam all have had their tyrants in the founding of the western world.

There have been atheists who have done just the same as in Pol Pot, Hitler et al.

There have also been others who have committed atrocities in the name of corporate enterprise. Uncle Sam and Russia step forward. In fact England, you stop cowering behind Sam and step forward too.

The fact and greed and tyranny of man is the only constant among all these people. And finding a scape goat is not going to change this. If religion was eradicated tomorrow and all the muslims and 'indigenous British' all signed up willingly to the same book of morals. Do you really expect angry men who feel spurned by the world and oppressed to not find a new reason.

Religion needs to be dismantled in my opinion. It creates barriers.

I bet every single one of the anti-immigration lot has sat down and had a good conversation with 'one of them' and though they were alright. Some of you might even have black friends  However it's cultural barriers that both of you have put up that creates the problems from the collective.

Now for the whole I actually agree with most (and i firmly say 'not all') of UKIP policies, but unfortunately in the band of ****wits they've compiled I wouldn't want them to run a country.

I think they are great for UK politics as the continual point scoring political boxing between Labour to Conservatives has been exposed for the sham it is and they now have to deal with the apathy they have created.

I was watching CNN today and Cameron sounded like he was starting to grow a pair with Europe and start make some demands for the British. So there is good to come out of this.

But to use isolated cases of extremism, but uneducated and insular evil and use it to justify an attack on the dominant whole is pathetic and small minded.

Yes, immigration is mess, but good policy and a mature approach to integrating our currently multiculturalism is key to the nations successful. Suddenly throwing up a 'Berlin wall' and going from 4th gear into reverse is not a good idea.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> The problem with immigration and settling people from totally different cultures, religions there is little in the way of any form of integration policy - nothing zilch .
> 
> My personal opinion the onus should not be the native population - to become very educated about the immigrants - but the immigrants should be thoroughly educated about the culture and way of life of the country they reside in - a country that generally in Britain case provides more freedoms that their native countries.
> 
> ...


I agree with the first part, but I'm entirely in total agreement about the 2nd part.

The great onus should be on the guest. Whether you visit or live in another's country or even visit your neighbours house. That I agree with. However to be successful in life you need to invest some time in understanding other peoples cultures no matter how reverent and illogical it may seem. Why?

Because it helps them cross the bridge to understand your culture and adapt. It's cultural judo rather than a headbutting competition

You might say 'why should I'? But surely the end result is the most important thing than being righteous. And the ignorant and uneducated are never likely to find a correct answer without help


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> If you go back in time almost all religions have caused an inspired evil. Christianity, Judaism and Islam all have had their tyrants in the founding of the western world.
> 
> There have been atheists who have done just the same as in Pol Pot, Hitler et al.
> 
> There have also been others who have committed atrocities in the name of corporate enterprise. Uncle Sam and Russia step forward. In fact England, you stop cowering behind Sam and step forward too.


if you go back long enough in history or look hard enough - you will find ills and atrocities by all to everybody

We always get remembered about the Adolf's holocaust - every year - i asked a Jewish friend why they have to keep rehashing this - he stated so the world never forgets so it will never happen again - well what was Cambodia ?? 25 - 30 % of the whole population was killed !! the number of jews in Europe dispatched compared to the whole population would not even be a %


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> if you go back long enough in history or look hard enough - you will find ills and atrocities by all to everybody
> 
> We always get remembered about the Adolf's holocaust - every year - i asked a Jewish friend why they have to keep rehashing this - he stated so the world never forgets so it will never happen again - well what was Cambodia ?? 25 - 30 % of the whole population was killed !! the number of jews in Europe dispatched compared to the whole population would not even be a %


I think rehashed is a big harsh.

This was 70 years ago. And very pertinent to this countries revolution since. My great grandad was a Jew who fled the nazis and both grandparents fought in the war. Whilst Cambodia was far more shocking and deserves though. It's things closer to home that are first on our mind (hence this thread). I don't think that devalues it

I'm in Vietnam as I write this and have learnt about some of the atrocities that went on which is rarely documented

As you say, go back far enough and everyone has been a perpetrator and the persecuted.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> It's things closer to home that are first on our mind (hence this thread). I don't think that devalues it


Rehash may be harsh - but they never let the freaking world forget EVER !! do they ?? constantly being reminded - and as far as being far away - it does devalue it - as does not affect directly - more shocking was the conflict in Europe (former Yugoslavia) - but many genocides far far far worse happened - out of sight so out of mind - Rwanda - Burundi ect


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> I'm in Vietnam as I write this and have learnt about some of the atrocities that went on which is rarely documented


lots of documentation if prepared to look and many films ie documentaries - watched the film heaven and earth - and met the woman who the film is about- and a book launch about the spy who was a secret agent in the us

Although easier for me as i live in Vietnam

hope i dont bump into you


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## ScouseDrago (May 19, 2014)

To any one who puts up a link or photo about how good or bad a religion is, just remember http://myownprivatevanityfair.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/media-war.jpg


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## gycraig (Oct 5, 2008)

simonthepieman said:


> I agree with the first part, but I'm entirely in total agreement about the 2nd part.
> 
> The great onus should be on the guest. Whether you visit or live in another's country or even visit your neighbours house. That I agree with. However to be successful in life you need to invest some time in understanding other peoples cultures no matter how reverent and illogical it may seem. Why?
> 
> ...


If I visited thailand for a year I wouldn't be annoyed if they didn't speak English and didn't understand my culture. It's not my god given right for my way of life / culture to be understood everywhere I go. If I wanted that I could just stay at home.

I'm not learning about a full culture/religion "just incase" it comes handy. That's like learning a African tribes language just incase I ever go there.

Is it just Muslim ? Should I look into Latvian culture? Polish culture ? Romanian culture ?.

Google will give them most of the answers they need


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Tonk007 said:


> what makes the west any better youve killed thousands of innocent people since occupying countries
> 
> the west are just big bullies who pick on the weak/defenseless with their cronies


I presume you live in the West.YET when you respond, you insinuate your NOT PART of the West.You clearly demonstrate an obvious bias against te West.Yet I presume, continue to take advantage of it.

If you clearly hate the West so much, please have the courage of your conviction and leave it.

There are plenty of other countries, which will welcome you and your hatred with open arms.

I also take humbridge to insinuate that I desire to kill anyone, based solely on ethnicity, race or religion.If I made the same comment,accusations of racism would be levelled at me.You however, feel it ok.Your comments speak volumes of your mindset.


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## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry but I can't fully agree with you
> 
> They are part of a religion that will never move forward with the rest of the world


Israel is a Zionist ruled state and it's influence is far reaching in the Western world. Zionists want war with Islam, and any other religion that opposes their agenda. The zionist agenda is ultimate soverign power, and control of every country and resource on this Earth, and the disillusionment and de-cultralisation of any country that stands in it's path. The UK and US have become hand puppets, in effect acting out Israeli foreign policy, helping further the core Zionist agenda, attacking, debasing, and economically enslaving countries that oppose or posses exploitable assests, like petrolum, or other some such resource. What Zionists want you to believe is that Islam is a threat and that all Muslims want to kill you, so that when you are occupied with hating them and making other people hate them they can continue with their agenda without having to deal with your opposition. When you stop accepting and start rejecting just about all mainstream media and start thinking for yourself the world becomes so much less confusing, but at the same time so much more gloomy and depressing, as you feel powerless to stop any of it.

Yes, in some ways fundamentalist Islam needed to modernise, stoning women to death is not a reasonable solution in modern times, but the sad thing is that MOST Muslims have modernised themselves AND their beliefs with the times, they never needed it forced on them through militarisation, conflict and violence. Sadly the minirity that haven't are being used as a scapegoat to further a Zionist agenda with is so much more potent and destructive than anything else around today. The threat to humanity and peace in the East and Worldwide is Zionism (NOT Jedaism) NOT Islam


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## Simspin (Sep 5, 2011)

Tonk007 said:


> Def too many ignorent racists on here, who most likely havnt achieved much in life & always blame others & just spend time spouting their usual hate nothing new on ukm


I know mate been going on all the years I hav been on here!

People like tekkas who start these threads, want to hav a word with the selfs!!

They know just what they are doing!


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## Guest (May 29, 2014)

Tonk007 said:


> Def too many ignorent racists on here, who most likely havnt achieved much in life & always blame others & just spend time spouting their usual hate nothing new on ukm


Ignorant, racist, a load of bollacks

I hate all of you equally :laugh:


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

People can get on together once religious/racists/color prejudice chips are knocked off

Example - i am Anglo Saxon English ( was rather racist in my day) and was in business with a Chinese Jewish guy - we also had a high profile Turkish Muslim working with us - we all got on and only the odd poke about our differences - eg when out to Lunch i was sitting in the middle ordered a Bacon sandwich - and stated to the waiter " a bacon sandwich sorts out the men from the boys" we all laughed at that

We are all friends no matter the color of the skin or the religion practiced - we all have our views but it matters not we are all friends.

Jews have made and intermingled a religion a race (very successfully) and one can just become Jewish ??? so that has created a barrier

I stated once to a businessman " i feel given half the chance the Jews would do to the Arabs what Adolf did to the Jews" he half agreed - later to read he was the head of the Jewish business community - oh dear !!


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

I hate the immigrants that claim benefits for kids that don't live in this country or claim benefits then p1ss off back to where they came from but still claim benefits. Scamming cvnts


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> I hate the immigrants that claim benefits for kids that don't live in this country or claim benefits then p1ss off back to where they came from but still claim benefits. Scamming cvnts


well uk is a prime destination for immigrants because of the welfare state - but many of the immigrants your talking about come from countries with zero benefits at all Zero - Zilch !!!.

So who do you think they learnt off - to become benefit scroungers ???

If you look at the rise of the Chav - befits street - its rather like the pot calling the kettle black !!

( i apologize for using the word black - its a difficult word to use without getting slated or having to sell my MBA team )


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

This country is fvcked up


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

The question I have for some of you anti-immigration people is the following: why should a man born in an impoverished part of the world, through no fault of his own, not be afforded the opportunity to come to a better country, fulfill his needs, make his desires come true? Are your needs and desires more important because of your luck of being born British or in a developed nation?

Also, the colonizing countries wrecked havoc on their colonies and when they left, the administration was in shambles and the infrastructure teetering on the brink of collapse (some did eventually collapse). For some countries like India, it was only 67 years ago and other countries much later than that. Historians would tell you, that time frame is extremely small to recover from such devastation. My point is, people from these countries will immigrate, because of a situation created by the colonizing countries. Don't come tell me that why should I pay for what British empire did and bla bla bla bullcrap because the exploitation of their colonies is what these countries rich and powerful. If brits can enjoy free everything, it is large part due to loot and unfair trading activities that the British imposed on their colonies.

Please go look at history, if we are willing to enjoy the fruits of our ancestors then we must fulfill their obligations as well.

lastly, every terrorist might be a Muslim but not every Muslim is a terrorist. We should not hate people for things they had no control over. There are better reasons to hate like son of a gun took my bench, screw that niga...


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> The question I have for some of you anti-immigration people is the following: why should a man born in an impoverished part of the world, through no fault of his own, not be afforded the opportunity to come to a better country, fulfill his needs, make his desires come true? Are your needs and desires more important because of your luck of being born British or in a developed nation?


Well its one one persons fault - but some poor are hapless and do not help themselves - due to a lack of education , genetic material, one can not help them all especially ones that do not help themselves - but having poor and weak has always been part of the human world and part of the natural selection process.



> Also, the colonizing countries wrecked havoc on their colonies and when they left, the administration was in shambles and the infrastructure teetering on the brink of collapse (some did eventually collapse)


Well the colonizers were expelled - by a united country - one thing that remains positive about colonization many were united against a common enemy. and if one wants to use that argument - well turn those history book back a little further and you will find

The conquest did not begin until AD 43, in the reign of the Emperor Claudius, Roman officials departed from Britain around the year 410,

Britain was a colony and a race of slaves- for hundreds of years - we actually changed our race to repel the invaders - and which was born the term Anglo- Saxon in Britain.


----------



## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

i didnt read all 15 pages, id just like to add im still laughing at the Bongo Bongo land comment made many months ago.


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## Ben-Joe (Jul 22, 2013)

Yeah I agree with the Australian approach. If you have nothing to bring to the table you can't come in. We're bursting at the seams as it is. Just wish our government would grow some balls and be more strict on this.

There's lots of other sh;t that winds me up. Foreigners on the fiddle, swindling 5 bed places in Kensington from the social then the cnuts get found out not even living there and renting the property out to other people. Yes that sort of stuff does happen.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Yeah I agree with the Australian approach. If you have nothing to bring to the table you can't come in. We're bursting at the seams as it is. Just wish our government would grow some balls and be more strict on this.


a race of migrants ???

If anyone should have a voice in stopping immigration to Australia it should be the indigenous people


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

But our government won't grow the balls needed. They will just keep bowing down to every immigrants wants and needs


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## Simspin (Sep 5, 2011)

Strong is the hate tonite


----------



## Ben-Joe (Jul 22, 2013)

romper stomper said:


> a race of migrants ???
> 
> If anyone should have a voice in stopping immigration to Australia it should be the indigenous people


I think pretty much every country on the globe has some form of immigration, but the aussies seem to have firm control of it.

If you compare the uk to Australia we are but a tiny island in comparison, and their population is 2 thirds less than ours.

I think we're beyond the stage where we have enough people in this country. Accommodating such a huge population puts a heavy strain on public services like the Nhs, then there's the potential for housing shortages and employment.

Fcuking bolt the door shut after kicking out any illegal cnut who shouldn't be here.


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## AleisterCrowley (Jul 28, 2013)

I haven't gone through the thread but can the OP point out the british Peedo rape gangs that are druging underage girls and raping them en mass in the countries that they emmigrate too(and origionally built BTW)


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## AleisterCrowley (Jul 28, 2013)

The joys of diversity...http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/443519/EXCLUSIVE-Grooming-gangs-pimp-Roma-girls-for-European-Union-passports


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

jsing2010 said:


> The question I have for some of you anti-immigration people is the following: why should a man born in an impoverished part of the world, through no fault of his own, not be afforded the opportunity to come to a better country, fulfill his needs, make his desires come true? Are your needs and desires more important because of your luck of being born British or in a developed nation?
> 
> Also, the colonizing countries wrecked havoc on their colonies and when they left, the administration was in shambles and the infrastructure teetering on the brink of collapse (some did eventually collapse). For some countries like India, it was only 67 years ago and other countries much later than that. Historians would tell you, that time frame is extremely small to recover from such devastation. My point is, people from these countries will immigrate, because of a situation created by the colonizing countries. Don't come tell me that why should I pay for what British empire did and bla bla bla bullcrap because the exploitation of their colonies is what these countries rich and powerful. If brits can enjoy free everything, it is large part due to loot and unfair trading activities that the British imposed on their colonies.
> 
> ...


Why should i have to live on the bread line just because i have a trade and didnt go to university but an immagrant is willing to do the job for half of what i am.

And im sorry mate but if you lived in the world i do youd know that a vast majority of these people dont want to stay here they send most of there money back home and when they are gone all that is left is another low paid trades mans job.

I cant wait until they start employing immigrants to do well paid office jobs because they will work for less and then ill see a lot peoples oppinions change


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## PD89 (Mar 27, 2014)

Sorry If this is abit of a derailment but I think its point ties into what The thread is about.

Think we have to accept that Ukip are probably going to win the next general election, I'd bet alot of people on this board will probably be voting for them without looking at their list of policies, check it out for yourself one of there main policies is the 'belief' that global warming is a myth and cutting all funding to renewable energy projects and stopping the teaching of global warming in schools, this policy bascailly lists them as an anti-scientific fact party.

Welcome back to the dark ages.


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

Topic of discussion: At what point does racism become acceptable?

Using the nazis as a example, I realise they wern't a religion but some of their beliefs were similar to a religion. Everyone would say they don't like them (i do too) but not every nazi was scum.

If I was to make a decision that in general I don't like muslims based on all the news I read. Why would that make me such a nasty person?

Not saying I have yet but in all honesty the 500,000 figure was miles off, there's entire countries of extreme Muslims. Something like 6-700 'honour' killings on pakistani women last year.

Sorry but that just doesn't happen in Christianity or any other religion.

People like this:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/29/pakistan-man-protesting-honour-killing-admits-strangling-first-wife

They're nowhere near such a minority as people think, a lot of people in this thread lead sheltered lives and only listen to what they see on bbc news


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Did you even read what I wrote? If a guy is willing to go out and try to change his why should he not be afforded that opportunity because he had luck of being born in a certain part of the world?

The colonizing powers left in large part due to the fiscal drain that their colonies was having on their coffers at home...that would happen after centuries of looting and ill advised trade policies that bind the colonized into working for less than nothing. In the case of India, they left them with a beautiful parting gift of splitting the country into three parts with no real plan of action and that region is still suffering from that mistake. Or creating Israel without local input an issue that is in large part the terrorist rally cry today or the cause why Palestinians live in a concentration camp of sorts with miserable prospects. It is time to own up to our mistake and not stuff them under the rug as it "happened a long time ago".


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Smitch said:


> I'd change your mates cos i don't get any of that.
> 
> I have lot's of mates from many different cultures, my bird is an Australian Indian.


she got big tits?


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> Did you even read what I wrote? If a guy is willing to go out and try to change his why should he not be afforded that opportunity because he had luck of being born in a certain part of the world?


Not sure what you're talking about? You meaning africans etc? Let all them in too? I'll tell you why not, because we can't afford it


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Do you buy a pan that is more expensive just for the hell of it? If I find someone to do your job for half the price and just as good then its time for you to change career path. Of course they send money home, they have to feed their families...OMG THAT IS SO AWFUL

I get it you feel superior to some poor third world shmuchk! This sense of entitlement is ridiculous.


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> Do you buy a pan that is more expensive just for the hell of it? If I find someone to do your job for half the price and just as good then its time for you to change career path. Of course they send money home, they have to feed their families...OMG THAT IS SO AWFUL
> 
> I get it you feel superior to some poor third world shmuchk! This sense of entitlement is ridiculous.


No idea what you're talking about, more hippy stuff with unlimited money. Learn some basic economics.

Very few Africans could do my job, in terms of education/knowledge I'll happily state yes I am superior to the average African


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

dann19900 said:


> Not sure what you're talking about? You meaning africans etc? Let all them in too? I'll tell you why not, because we can't afford it


I understand the logistical issues behind letting them all in and frankly all of them won't come. My philosophical point is simple, anyone that is willing to make an effort of leaving everything behind and comes to our countries to start a new life should be afforded that opportunity. I rather employ them because I know they will put their head down and grind it versus the entitled schmuck that wants cigarette breaks every 20 mins, complains about how the pay is ridiculously low, and day dreaming about god knows what.


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

so they come here, work minimum wage. Claim tax credits and whatever else, send all their spare money home to maybe be 10-20% more efficient at their low wage job? Doesn't add up mate


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Learn some economics? I have long been a student of the Austrian School of Economics (Mises), I can run circles around you with my legs tied behind my back with respect to my knowledge of the subject. I am advocating free global labor market with everyone getting a shot anywhere they choose...it is not hippie stuff it is actually very libertarian, you on the other hand are just an...well I am going to keep it civil.

Well if they cannot do your job, them you have nothing to worry about. I suggest more unskilled over paid laborers get the proper skills to work in your field.


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> Learn some economics? I have long been a student of the Austrian School of Economics (Mises), I can run circles around you with my legs tied behind my back with respect to my knowledge of the subject. I am advocating free global labor market with everyone getting a shot anywhere they choose...it is not hippie stuff it is actually very libertarian, you on the other hand are just an...well I am going to keep it civil.
> 
> Well if they cannot do your job, them you have nothing to worry about. I suggest more unskilled over paid laborers get the proper skills to work in your field.


Thats nice I quit my course because it was trash. Nothing to worry about? Whos paying for their **** in hippy land?


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

At minimum wage, saving is usually not an option and they should be commended for scrounging around enough money to send back home...I assure no one is being a millionaire at home, jut enough money to eat.

I am currently spending a king's ransom to make my organisation 5-6% more efficient, I would kill for 20...


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> At minimum wage, saving is usually not an option and they should be commended for scrounging around enough money to send back home...I assure no one is being a millionaire at home, jut enough money to eat.
> 
> I am currently spending a king's ransom to make my organisation 5-6% more efficient, I would kill for 20...


Well I see now you don't live in the UK, it doesn't work like that here. They'd claim every benefit under the sun and I assure you they'd send all spare money they do have home


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

You quit? well it shows...in your world, if the foreign workers were not here, you would not be paying anything?


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

I have immigrants that work me, they claim benefits, they send spare money home, they are some of the hardest working folk I have ever met. As an employer I don't care where they send THEIR money and customers are happy with the quality and price of our goods. It makes the market more efficient does not artificially bloat the cost of the labor market like restricting them does...


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> You quit? well it shows...in your world, if the foreign workers were not here, you would not be paying anything?


I don't need a econmics course I work for myself. Can see from your 5-10 posts your course is utter bull**** lol. Ofcourse I'd still be paying but I'd either be paying less or it would be spent elsewhere, either suits me.

If I was an employer I wouldn't care either. As a UK citizen I would/do though. It is not THEIR money if they're claiming benefits too


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> they claim benefits, they send spare money home


This sums up the main reason I don't want them here. No need for me to post to u anymore


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

Its bull****? why because your pompous, self entitled **** disagrees? Anyways, I'm out, I actually have work to do, sit behind your 19th century thoughts and enjoy your weekend.


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## jsing2010 (Feb 27, 2014)

dann19900 said:


> This sums up the main reason I don't want them here. No need for me to post to u anymore


HOW DOES IT MATTER WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR MONEY, DO I TELL YOU HOW TO SPEND YOUR CASH? WOW, SUCH IGNORANCE. GET PEOPLE TO STOP VACATIONING OUTSIDE OF THE UK WHILE YOU ARE AT IT TOO!


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

If I went to work in the Middle East and sent money home would this be acceptable?


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## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

jsing2010 said:


> HOW DOES IT MATTER WHAT THEY DO WITH THEIR MONEY, DO I TELL YOU HOW TO SPEND YOUR CASH? WOW, SUCH IGNORANCE. GET PEOPLE TO STOP VACATIONING OUTSIDE OF THE UK WHILE YOU ARE AT IT TOO!


you've just stated they claim benefits. I'm completely and utterly confused how you're still claiming its THEIR money. Ignorance really? I wouldn't have a problem with immigration if we hadn't let so many in. We have though so time to close the door for 5-10 years and sort out the people already here.

I'm not completely against immigration but it has to be limited, no other way. Give me some skilled Chinese and I'd happily drag them here all the way from Shenzhen


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

dann19900 said:


> you've just stated they claim benefits. I'm completely and utterly confused how you're still claiming its THEIR money. Ignorance really? I wouldn't have a problem with immigration if we hadn't let so many in. We have though so time to close the door for 5-10 years and sort out the people already here.
> 
> I'm not completely against immigration but it has to be limited, no other way.* Give me some skilled Chinese* and I'd happily drag them here all the way from Shenzhen


Two of my best customers are Chinese.They are really great guys.You couldnt wish to have two better business contacts, to get drunk with.They will pat me on the back ,tell me how great I am.One even offered me his wifes sister!

However.If they could save a penny by cutting me out of the supply loop(as one tried) they would.No loyalty exists.Simply business to them.Does that make me a racist? I dont know, and I dont care.It just means I have to be careful how much I tell them.My UK guys, know my sources, and have never made any attempt to "swerve" me.Its just cultural diffrences which, at the end of day is what fuels racism anyway.


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Del Boy 01 said:


> If I went to work in the Middle East and sent money home would this be acceptable?


The difference been mate when british, american, australian or any other leading econamy workers move they dont lower the working wage of were they go.

If i moved to australia when they had a shortage of skilled people i wouldnt be working for half of the wage of the australian next to me.

Yet iv worked with a lot of eastern euros, africans and middle easterns who claim to be able to do the job and some can and a lot cant but they are willing to work for a lot lot less than the english bloke next to them because its still a massive increase when it gets sent home.

iv first hand experiance of 10 poles living in one back to back and sending most of there earnings home with no intention of staying here but when they leave the job pay structure doesnt increase if an english national gets the job.

Iv also had first hand experiance of a whole work force been laid off and replaced by agency immagrant workers working for half the wage.

As iv said earlier its not the peoples fault any one would do the same given the oppertunity but it is some ones fault that british born trade workers are been forced out of job because of a massive influx of un needed cheap workers from poorer nations.

and as for the idiot with the idea that they should be able to come and undercut the national work force because they were born to a poorer nation you sir do not live in the real world


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## Mal20729 (Mar 1, 2014)

essexboy said:


> I presume you live in the West.YET when you respond, you insinuate your NOT PART of the West.You clearly demonstrate an obvious bias against te West.Yet I presume, continue to take advantage of it.
> 
> If you clearly hate the West so much, please have the courage of your conviction and leave it.
> 
> ...


Do you? Or do you take "umbrage"? You're welcome.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Mal20729 said:


> Do you? Or do you take "umbrage"? You're welcome.


Fu.ck me the grammar police are on duty.


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## Mal20729 (Mar 1, 2014)

essexboy said:


> Fu.ck me the grammar police are on duty.


It's not grammar - it's spelling - and again I say - you're welcome.

D1ck


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

jason7474utd said:


> The difference been mate when british, american, australian or any other leading econamy workers move they dont lower the working wage of were they go.
> 
> If i moved to australia when they had a shortage of skilled people i wouldnt be working for half of the wage of the australian next to me.
> 
> ...


You didn't answer my question mate


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Del Boy 01 said:


> You didn't answer my question mate


Sorry mate wasnt having a go at you it may of sounded like that

but yes itd be acceptable lol.

My uncles a manager for shell in dubai he send money home to support his 2 kids form a previouse marrige the differnce i was trying to get at is his wage at shell isnt any different from say a manager from africa or from dubai its self.

were as it seems to be accepted to come here and undercut the national workers


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## Del Boy 01 (Dec 19, 2012)

jason7474utd said:


> Sorry mate wasnt having a go at you it may of sounded like that
> 
> but yes itd be acceptable lol.
> 
> ...


Yeah I agree with you there. I have no problems with anyone coming over here earning a fair wage then sending it home


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Del Boy 01 said:


> Yeah I agree with you there. I have no problems with anyone coming over here earning a fair wage then sending it home


Same mate if a load of mechanics, plumbers builders ect came over because wehad more jobs than people to take them and every one worked for the same money then theres no problem but what we got was a lot of (from personal experience) underskilled workers who undercut and put a lot of british workers out of work


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## gycraig (Oct 5, 2008)

jsing2010 said:


> Do you buy a pan that is more expensive just for the hell of it? If I find someone to do your job for half the price and just as good then its time for you to change career path. Of course they send money home, they have to feed their families...OMG THAT IS SO AWFUL
> 
> I get it you feel superior to some poor third world shmuchk! This sense of entitlement is ridiculous.


Until everyone is on minimum wage and everyone wants to move away ?


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## gycraig (Oct 5, 2008)

jsing2010 said:


> I have immigrants that work me, they claim benefits, they send spare money home, they are some of the hardest working folk I have ever met. As an employer I don't care where they send THEIR money and customers are happy with the quality and price of our goods. It makes the market more efficient does not artificially bloat the cost of the labor market like restricting them does...


Claiming benefits while working is keeping the market artificially low and meaning people you can exploit them.

Majority of migrants leave this country out of pocket through child benefit etc and working low pay jobs. Why should we pay for this :S

Majority working leave the country in a negative figure and the breeders exploit the system never work and bleed us dry. It's hard to be pro immigration


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Ashcrapper said:


> she got big tits?


G cup, they're fvcking massive.


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## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> However.If they could save a penny by cutting me out of the supply loop(as one tried) they would.No loyalty exists.Simply business to them.Does that make me a racist? I dont know, and I dont care.It just means I have to be careful how much I tell them.My UK guys, know my sources, and have never made any attempt to "swerve" me.Its just cultural diffrences which, at the end of day is what fuels racism anyway.


be very wary with doing any business with Chinese - and as you found out they will try to cut people out or take over - but will always smile to your face - I will admit to being bigoted towards Chinese i do not know - that race is more xenophobic and racist than many others and Lying is part of their daily culture and fabric of society (they call it saving face) .


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## kingblog (Oct 19, 2013)

EDL-MUSCLE.CO.UK


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> View attachment 151529
> 
> 
> Don't forget the 1.3 million brits in australia, 215000 in new Zealand, 212000 in South Africa. . And more.
> ...


I think the biggest problem with issues like this is that people fail to distinguish between the extreme ends of religion, race and culture. This thread shows the same thing. Comments such as, "but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the Muslims do here" suggests that all Muslims cause problems here, when in fact it is only a small minority within that group. People from the EDL and other such groups fall short for the same reasons. They propose some very good things, but then let themselves down by applying that thought process to the whole group rather than the extremists. Your point about Sharia law is a perfect example. Most people who oppose it only do so because all they've heard about is Muslim street patrols attacking people in Muslim areas.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

mikep81 said:


> I think the biggest problem with issues like this is that people fail to distinguish between the extreme ends of religion, race and culture. This thread shows the same thing. Comments such as, "but do all the brits living in oz cause problems like the Muslims do here" suggests that all Muslims cause problems here, when in fact it is only a small minority within that group. People from the EDL and other such groups fall short for the same reasons. They propose some very good things, but then let themselves down by applying that thought process to the whole group rather than the extremists. Your point about Sharia law is a perfect example. Most people who oppose it only do so because all they've heard about is Muslim street patrols attacking people in Muslim areas.


Exactly, is the troublesome minority fringe element that causes problems and is most visible while the vast majority are quietly getting on with life and not causing any [email protected] at all but its the whole group that gets the blame. Then all it takes is for someone to produce some statistics showing how large a group is as a whole and if under the false belief the whole group is extremist, the reaction (fairly naturally considering the false belief) becomes to drive the whole group out.

IMO you have to take everyone as an individual, be it when looking at muslims, immigrants, gingers, anglo saxons etc... just ask who is hateful and inciteful of hate, which specific people are causing economic problems and look to legislate against the specific problem rather than the group as a whole. Whole group stereotyping and blanket legislation causes more issues than it solves IMO.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Smitch said:


> G cup, they're fvcking massive.


lets share photos. immigration would be better for it, consider it a service to your country


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