# Dbol only experience of yours



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

Thinking about it. Searched a bit but i need to collect more info

How long did u run it?

Dosage?

Gain?

How much did u keep?

What pct?

Main side?

Would u do it again going back in time?

Thanks to u all


----------



## jonesy86 (Nov 30, 2009)

dbol only is a good starting point for a first cycle.

i did a dbol only cycle for 6 weeks, then went straight onto a dbol and test e cycle, for 10 weeks,

i had noticable gains from the dbol, i had 10mg tabs taking 30mg pd, 1 morn 1 lunch 1 night, dont know if this makes n e differnce but spaced them out, water retention is a main side from these but size was gained and strength did go up, noticably to in the first few weeks, i dont thnk u gain much from taking 3 of these a day to taking double i believe gains would change much.

i only run tamoxifen as pct from week 5 and followed up 3 weeks after, looking back would of changed pct but this comes with experience and minimising risks.

hope this helps. cheers


----------



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

Bump. Any experience?


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

buddha said:


> Thinking about it. Searched a bit but i need to collect more info
> 
> How long did u run it? 6 weeks
> 
> ...


My opinion is that dianabol gives you quality gains indirectly.

The main advantage of dianabol is the gain in strength.

With that you will be able to lift more weight, tear more muscle-fibers, bigger recovery, more growth.

If you bulk up with dianabol only and you aren't eating very clean you will get bloated, ofcourse it's a mass-gain but you will lose it again after your cycle.

I'm a big fan of d-bol but using it as a kickstart in stack-cycles.

I even used it in a cutting-cycle with result. Strength-gain without any water-retention. :thumb:


----------



## GMme (May 17, 2010)

1st cycle was dbol only with nolv and clom pct - 8weeks

Gained well, 14 lbs perhaps

Kept about 9 or 10 of those

Had high BP throughout

It really seemed to rip me up aswell, I didnt get any bloat.

Even though my experience was good I wont touch it again. Aromatises badly, gave me sky high blood pressure.


----------



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for the input. What if I'd throw in some Nolva during the cycle as Mick Hart suggests?


----------



## GMme (May 17, 2010)

Dunno, I havn't heard of this but others might know better. From my own knowledge I wouldn't do that as it may hinder games


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

No nolva mate, use 25mg of provi a day, that will take care of everything.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Snuff-Sann said:


> No nolva mate, use 25mg of provi a day, that will take care of everything.


Dbol is a weak androgene and the anabolic properties of dbol strongly depend on the estrogen aromatisation.


----------



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

Suitelf11 said:


> Dbol is a weak androgene and the anabolic properties of dbol strongly depend on the estrogen aromatisation.


So you say that, to a certain extent, the more it aromatizes the more it is anabolic?

Have you ever done such a cycle?

Thanks


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

What I'm saying is, that if you block aromatisation of dbol, you directly decrease your gains. Furthermore, you need a decent AI To really block the estrogens of dbol to get rid of sides as bloat/gyno. Proviron isn't suitable for that anyways, main reason you should take proviron is for it's binding to SHBG, since dbol has a really low affinity for SHBG, there's no reason to take proviron for either that, or estrogen management during a dbol cycle. I'd only recommend to take nolva for gyno during a dbol only. If you want to run an AI next to it, such as aromasin/arimidex, it's your call, but you'd be better off with tbol for example.

For test proviron is highly recommendable.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Dbol is good for rapid strength gains even at 30mg ED but it comes at a price....mega bloat, massive pumps (the bad kind), and if you're sesnitive to gyno your nipples will wake up with their own morning wood!!!

Never tried tbol but I would rather take winny or anavar for kickstart myself....less to be concerned with


----------



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

Suitelf11 said:


> For test proviron is highly recommendable.


Like what? 6 to 10 week test e + 100 mg proviron a day?


----------



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

G-fresh said:


> Never tried tbol but I would rather take winny or anavar for kickstart myself....less to be concerned with


How much can you expect from a 6 week var only at 80mg or winny at ???


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

buddha said:


> Like what? 6 to 10 week test e + 100 mg proviron a day?


A good rule would be 25mg prov for every 250mg of test you take. But take whatever you feel good with. :thumbup1:


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

buddha said:


> How much can you expect from a 6 week var only at 80mg or winny at ???


Hard to say but if your diet is clean and you train and rest well you will be much denser/harder feeling and the strength induced gains from anavar @100mg ED for me was compariable with 30mg dbol, minus the moon face, bloat and gyno concerns!!!

Anavar and winny should not be swept aside without trial.... :thumbup1:


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> Dbol is a weak androgene and the anabolic properties of dbol strongly depend on the estrogen aromatisation.


This is not true mate.

In my last cycle I used dianabol as a kickstart with proviron. After a week and a half I gained strength without any form of retention.

I know exactly if there is water-retention or not cause it always starts round my chest and neck, I also turn a bit red in that area. Now I had nothing whatsoever.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

There's a difference between using dbol only with proviron and using dbol as kickstart, as proviron will obviously give some advantage for the test you're running next to it.

You're most likely not to get bloat either on dbol only if you'd run it, proviron is only very mild as an AI and the main reason to take it is for the SHBG binding.


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> There's a difference between using dbol only with proviron and using dbol as kickstart, as proviron will obviously give some advantage for the test you're running next to it.
> 
> You're most likely not to get bloat either on dbol only if you'd run it, proviron is only very mild as an AI and the main reason to take it is for the SHBG binding.


No mate, that little bit of extra free testosteron is not that important, it's the water-retention that has to stay away, and that's why I'm using proviron. 25mg a day is allready enough to keep the retention away from d-bol and test. Proviron is maybe very mild as an inhibitor but that is exactly what you need cause it's not very wise to surpress estrogen to much.

But that wasn't the issue.

You said that you need aromatization to gain strength of d-bol. I think not. Well, maybe a bit but not that much that you will get bloated by it.


----------



## LAB_RAT (Oct 12, 2010)

Do you reckon that you could get away with running otc pct (something like ATD) for a 30mg ed D-Bol cycle?


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Snuff-Sann said:


> No mate, that little bit of extra free testosteron is not that important, it's the water-retention that has to stay away, and that's why I'm using proviron. 25mg a day is allready enough to keep the retention away from d-bol and test. Proviron is maybe very mild as an inhibitor but that is exactly what you need cause it's not very wise to surpress estrogen to much.
> 
> But that wasn't the issue.
> 
> You said that you need aromatization to gain strength of d-bol. I think not. Well, maybe a bit but not that much that you will get bloated by it.


Read the dbol part.

http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f65/relatieve-affiniteit-anabolen-voor-androgene-receptor-spierweefsel-10412/



LAB_RAT said:


> Do you reckon that you could get away with running otc pct (something like ATD) for a 30mg ed D-Bol cycle?


No, get a proper PCT.


----------



## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

I ran d-bol at 10mg ED for 14 weeks, made good gains in strength at first and gained about 8-10lbs,kept it for a while but had a break from lifting due to long term injuries and lost pretty much all of it, would i do it again, yes, i'm on it now.

Sides were none and pct was noneat such a low dose i didn't need it.

T-bol was good too, ran 80mg a day for 6 weeks gained about 8lbs, kept 5lbs, massive back pumps, a little moody but nothing too much. pct was clomid for 4 weeks.

T-bol i would never do again due to how much you have to take for such little gains, if i did do it again i would run 100mg a day minimum.


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> Read the dbol part.
> 
> http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f65/relatieve-affiniteit-anabolen-voor-androgene-receptor-spierweefsel-10412/


Buddy, try to understand the definition of 'anabolic'.

I'm not talking about anabolic, I'm talking about strength-gain.

They are quite different.

You indeed need the power of aromatization for gaining mass with dianabol.

But that's not what I said. Most of the mass you will gain is loose mass, it's bloat cause of the estrogen in your body by aromatization.

I wasn't talking about that. I said that you can increase your strength by cycling with dianabol without almost no aromatization into estrogen, by minimizing your salt- and sugar-intake and by taking 25mg of proviron during your cycle.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm more refering to dbol only cycle, as what this topic is about.

Can hardly imagine 25mg of proviron will take care of the bloat caused by dbol....


----------



## tomass1342 (Nov 12, 2009)

buddha said:


> Thinking about it. Searched a bit but i need to collect more info
> 
> How long did u run it? 14 weeks so far
> 
> ...


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> I'm more refering to dbol only cycle, as what this topic is about.
> 
> Can hardly imagine 25mg of proviron will take care of the bloat caused by dbol....


Well, if I were you I would do it.

I'm the living proove.

I've just finished a cutting-cycle and during that cycle I started with a kickstart dianabol for 6 weeks. I also took 25mg of provi a week and minimized my salt- and sugar intake. You probably would ask yourself, why dianabol during cutting, that's something you use while bulking, but I had a feeling that if you would do something about the bloat you could have an advantage of the strength what dianabol also provides during that cutting-cycle. And I was right. With dianabol you can cut aswell, you just need to do something about the water-retention, and that's not so difficult.

I prefer, although I'm a fan of both, dianabol instead of winny. I know that dianabol gives you more strength then winny can deliver.

Have a good look at this buddy and see the difference of me at the end of my second cycle, and the end of my last one.

http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/members/snuffsann-albums.html


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

But have you ever ran dbol without any other components and did you get bloated??

Cutting with dbol isn't entirely weird to do, what dose did you kickstart with? 20mg ED?


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> But have you ever ran dbol without any other components and did you get bloated?? Read about my other cycles then you'll know.
> 
> Cutting with dbol isn't entirely weird to do, what dose did you kickstart with? 20mg ED?


 50mg/d


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

High dose, I'd def. expect bloat with that. But I can't see how prov would fix that, need to look into that.

Already read about another cycle of you, 250mg test and 200mg deca or something if I remember correctly.


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> High dose, I'd def. expect bloat with that. But I can't see how prov would fix that, need to look into that.
> 
> Already read about another cycle of you, 250mg test and 200mg deca or something if I remember correctly.


You really have no clue what a power 25mg of provi has hm?


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Snuff-Sann said:


> You really have no clue what a power 25mg of provi has hm?


Proviron has only mild anti-e properties and 25mg is quite a low dose, so that surprises me yes.


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> Proviron has only mild anti-e properties and 25mg is quite a low dose, so that surprises me yes.


What you probably don't know is that mesterolone also downregulates the estrogen-receptors, thus not only binding to the aromatase-enzymes. That makes provi double as powerfull.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Snuff-Sann said:


> What you probably don't know is that mesterolone also *downregulates the estrogen-receptors*, thus not only binding to the aromatase-enzymes. That makes provi double as powerfull.


I've read that multiple times yes, but I can't find anything to back that up. Got something for me??


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> I've read that multiple times yes, but I can't find anything to back that up. Got something for me??


Not at the moment mate, no studies whatsoever now.

The first being the result of its structure. It is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, yet it nonetheless has a much higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thereby preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen. So Mesterolone use has the extreme benefit of reducing estrogenic side-effects and water retention noted with other steroids, and as such still help to provide mostly lean gains. Its also been suggested that it may actually downgrade the actual estrogen receptor making it doubly effective at reducing circulating estrogen levels.

Proviron, an anabolic steroid, is particularly interesting. I suspect that it not only acts as an antiaromatase but in an unknown DHT-like anti-estrogenic manner. This might involve estrogen receptor downregulation for example.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Yes I know all that, but as far as I know it's purely speculation till date, as I've yet to find a study to back it up. Maybe anyone else on the board who has some real proof for it?

Edit: You got that from Big Cat's steroid profile? I remember him writing it as well. It's a shame he doesn't write stuff anymore.


----------



## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

G-fresh said:


> massive pumps (*the bad kind*),


What do you mean by this mate?

Sorry i'm trying to slowly learn so when it comes to my first cycle (if ever) i get it spot on.


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Pumps which makes you unable to train properly.


----------



## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

What's that like literally not being able to move your ligaments much due to a massive pump?

Would that not hurt?


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Not being able to preserve a proper range of motion and they can be painful yes.


----------



## Snuff-Sann (Sep 11, 2009)

Suitelf11 said:


> Yes I know all that, but as far as I know it's purely speculation till date, as I've yet to find a study to back it up. Maybe anyone else on the board who has some real proof for it?
> 
> Edit: You got that from Big Cat's steroid profile? I remember him writing it as well. It's a shame he doesn't write stuff anymore.


I know mate, he had some brilliant articles.


----------



## Squirrel (Jun 7, 2009)

I get very bad shin pumps on as little as 40mg dbol per day, sometimes agony just to walk.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

^^^ back pumps have keeled me over before! And i was doing standing biceps curls :cursing:


----------



## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

These pumps sound scary


----------



## Suitelf11 (Jul 7, 2010)

Barker said:


> These pumps sound scary


They are, I even have major forearm pumps whilst on creatine, hurts like hell. :lol:


----------



## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Barker said:


> These pumps sound scary


They are scary, felt great but had to finish my course early, felt great whilst on it but they made my whole body tighter than a frogs ar$e


----------



## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

I had mega pumps whilst on tbol, never dbol. Built a conservatory and laid the concrete for the floor, shifted about 10 yard of sand and balast, i had to stop after a while as i couldn't move.


----------



## buddha (Sep 13, 2010)

Well a lot of interesting readings here but I am still far from a decision based on what I've read.

Dbol is good but most got bloating out of it and were able to keep little of what they got.

Tbol could be a bit better but apparently you have to "digest" more mgs to have decent effect...


----------



## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

buddha said:


> Well a lot of interesting readings here but I am still far from a decision based on what I've read.
> 
> Dbol is good but most got bloating out of it and were able to keep little of what they got.
> 
> Tbol could be a bit better but apparently you have to "digest" more mgs to have decent effect...


 Its trial and error i'm afraid, everyone is different, i never got bloat out of dbol but i never ran a high dose.


----------



## Yeabuddy (Oct 31, 2010)

Did 6 weeks 30/30/30/40/40/50 went from 14.4 to 15.9ish , dropped to 15.1 after pct, kept a little strength and size, but did have back pumps, slight kidney pain and hbp, also retained a lot of water as expected. Also strange tightening feeling in both nipples at times, not gyno but simply from aromatization i think. Overall loved dbol but next time with definately throw in with test.


----------

