# Need advice for single digit BF.



## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Hello.

So my request is simple, give me all the info i could possible need for archiveing my goal, a single digit bf.

And we are talking low bf like 6-7%.

Anyways i thought i should write down my stats and diet:

Age: 24

177 cm tall (5,9 ft)

91-92 KG (200 lb)

Bf ? above 11 below 13 i would say.

Here is a pic of me









So, my workout routine is:

Day 1: Legs 25 set

Day 2: back 20 set

Day 3: Chest 20 set

Day 4: Rest - Cardio 30-40 min

Day 5: Shoulders 20 set

Day 6: arms 15 set bi and 15 tri (my arms are lackin like hell cause i never cared to give them attention).

Repeat

My diet is following atm:

Fat: 78G

Protein: 280G

Carbs: 245G

I eat 6 times a day.

Juice:

400 mg tren E EW

250 mg test E EW

Fatburner:

25 mcg t3 (will ramp up to 50 monday, and in the next week 75 mcg, then back down to 25 and break a little from the cut to get a mental break).

AI:

1.25 mg letro E2.5D (i am very prone to estro sides  )

I think that covers it all, is there anything you would change or does it seem fine ?

Oh yea, it's my 3rd cycle and im 4 weeks in.


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## countrybumpkin (Jul 2, 2011)

Carb cycling mate. A really easy way to do it that I follow is just pick 2 days a week, ( I chose rest days ) one following 50% of normal carbs, so 110-115 for you, and the other I keep carbs at 0.

You've got a good physique already so I assume your eating the right foods and training decently.

Do you do any cardio post session?

What is your first meal?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm zig zagging calories atm and it's working.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

I been working out for a couple of years .. decided that i want to go to the next level and get beyond what i ever imagined.

So im going for 7% BF and mabey 220 LB.

Thans a lot for the compliment  it's nice to hear - im comming from a danish board where even the admins flamed the users, and ive been around for 4 years, so i decided today it was enough after the owner flamed me and dragged my GF into it, how immature.

But anyways, its super great to have a positive first reply on my post 

I am eating 90% clean, that is, i somtimes snack an icecream or somthing else.

No atm im not doing any cardio besides 1x week on restday.

But, i am a .. what the **** do i call it in english .. i work with lumber and build walls, roofs and stuff like that, dont know the english word for my profession omfg, so stupid.

But i am doing hard labor evry day, and i am taking my mountainbike to work evryday for somthing like 3 kilometers every way

(that's like 1.5 miles each way).

So im fairly active.

My first meal is allways a protein shake, no carbs or anything, i tend to get "sick-ish" if i eat anything the first hour after waking, so first meal i 50g whey, next meal and the following 2 is 175G lean gound beef and 66G rice and a handful of veggies.

And for dinner i allways take somthing that fits my macros for the rest of the day and a late night snack consisting of protein pancakes from myprotein.

BUT - since im doing hard labor evry day, im not sure how good a no carb day would be ? i have to be able to lift and work without getting dizzy or anything stupid while climbing a roof


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

How about carb timing ? been looking at the stickies a little 

Could it be an option for me ?


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## countrybumpkin (Jul 2, 2011)

Its good to see your first thing is just protein, this is great idea as protein alone does not spike insulin. Insulin blunts the effects of gh which is released during sleep so its a good idea to keep insulin low for a while after waking.

It'd be great if you drop the snacks, getting to single digit bf is hard as hell and ice cream and sweeties do not help mate, but im sure you already know this. However I would allow one day a week where I increase calories by 500-1000, with those calories coming from protein and carbohydrates only and base them around the workout, I choose this day on the day I train my weakest bodypart ( you might choose to do this on arms). Eat whatever carbohydrate sources you want as part of those calorie and treat it as a reefed.

I think what we call you is just a builder mate :laugh:. By doing the biking and the physical job you already get a fair amount of cardio in. It might be wise to add some H.I.I.T cardio post session, not a lot, but enough to increase metabolism and burn fat.

A timed carb diet is extremely effective, and it is up to you which one you choose. I suggested carb cycling as you spend the majority of the week eating a fair amount of clean carbs, with a physical job this helps me keep energised for training and work, and also stops my muscles from becoming flat. Which ever approach you chose mate, both work well so like I said its up to you.

In terms of the H.I.I.T I would add 5 minutes post session now 30 seconds moderate pace, 30 seconds all out. ( this is a killer) and add 5 minutes when fat loss stalls

I noticed you were worried about no carb day with your job. It is a little tough mentally, but single digit bodyfat is tough. However if it really is unbearable i'd add a few in... maybe 50g? your gonna have to have a little play around with that, its your body and you know what you can get away with


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## Chronic (Feb 5, 2015)

I think you'remore likely to be in the 15%+ bf judging from them pics mate.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

countrybumpkin said:


> Its good to see your first thing is just protein, this is great idea as protein alone does not spike insulin. Insulin blunts the effects of gh which is released during sleep so its a good idea to keep insulin low for a while after waking.
> 
> It'd be great if you drop the snacks, getting to single digit bf is hard as hell and ice cream and sweeties do not help mate, but im sure you already know this. However I would allow one day a week where I increase calories by 500-1000, with those calories coming from protein and carbohydrates only and base them around the workout, I choose this day on the day I train my weakest bodypart ( you might choose to do this on arms). Eat whatever carbohydrate sources you want as part of those calorie and treat it as a reefed.
> 
> ...


Ok, this is a little stupid, i mixed the 2 types of diets up with each other.

ofc. carb cycling would be great for me.

Then how about my diet ? would you do anything diffrent here ?

Or is the fat / carb / prot fine ?

Cronic - you really think im 15% ? damm, never thought that.


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## countrybumpkin (Jul 2, 2011)

philippeb said:


> Ok, this is a little stupid, i mixed the 2 types of diets up with each other.
> 
> ofc. carb cycling would be great for me.
> 
> ...


what do you mean by you got them mixed up mate?

With your diet, I worked It out that your consuming 2800 calories a day. Your protein intake is fine, try upping the carbs to 280 and fat down to 60, you might find you have more energy and look fuller, the higher carbs will not hinder your fat loss as due to you being fairly lean already and the addition of T3 your metabolism will be high.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

I just switched them around, so i thought of carb cycling as carb timing and the other way around 

Anyways, what about all thiss stuff in the stickies with carbs hindering fat loss ?

I shouldent be concerned about that ?

I have allways been lean, i can go op to 15%+ bf on bulk, but as soon at i dont force myself to eat i drop bf easy.

But on the other hand, i never considered going lower than this, so it's a complete new area to me.


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## ohh_danielson (Oct 16, 2013)

Carbs can hinder fat loss but it's much more of an issue if your natural and not using any juice, which isn't the case for you. So you can get away with more carbs.

If the results aren't going as expected then you could try slowly lowering the carbs every couple of weeks or so.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

It's definitely helping me get leaner doing cardio.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Thanks for the advices


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

philippeb said:


> Thanks for the advices


Best of luck mate,I'm currently cutting to single digit bf for the first time too.


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## Chronic (Feb 5, 2015)

philippeb said:


> Cronic - you really think im 15% ? damm, never thought that.


From them pics, probably.

Use this to help mate.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Defo need more cardio than 1 in every 6days.

Imo do AM fasting cardio 5-7days a week.

I go for the most.comfortable machine for me.which is the stair climber 200floors every.morning, a.good.day I'm done.in 45mins, a bad day I'm doing.in 55mins.

Makes my legs severely depleted like.pencils tho but the fill back up fine on the carb.load at the end of the cut


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Remember, i have to ride a bike for 3 km to work and 3 km back, then i do hard labor work for 6+ hours each day.

Thought cardio would be too mucht ?

Or is it still needed ?

I sweat a lot at work.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

philippeb said:


> Remember, i have to ride a bike for 3 km to work and 3 km back, then i do hard labor work for 6+ hours each day.
> 
> Thought cardio would be too mucht ?
> 
> ...


You just need to eat less calories than your body needs while hitting a min. protein & fat requirement. Ignore this bs about fasted cardio and carb timing. Just get in a deficit and stay there. Why the fvck is everyone making this out to be harder than it is..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

philippeb said:


> Remember, i have to ride a bike for 3 km to work and 3 km back, then i do hard labor work for 6+ hours each day.
> 
> Thought cardio would be too mucht ?
> 
> ...


Ah right I missed that bit, forget my post lol that looks fine to me as you are


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

damm, i dont wanna start a argument or anything 

I'm just not sure - I am what you would call a builder, so i drag and lift heavy **** all day, then i ride a 29" mtb around a lot and work when i get home too, i barely got time for cardio as it is unfortunately.

Thought the extra work i pull in the weekend could count as "cardio" .. i might not run, but i sure aint sitting on my flat ass..


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

philippeb said:


> damm, i dont wanna start a argument or anything
> 
> I'm just not sure - I am what you would call a builder, so i drag and lift heavy **** all day, then i ride a 29" mtb around a lot and work when i get home too, i barely got time for cardio as it is unfortunately.
> 
> Thought the extra work i pull in the weekend could count as "cardio" .. i might not run, but i sure aint sitting on my flat ass..


The bottom line is, if you're eating too many calories your bodyfat isn't going to drop. Cardio will help but diet will dictate if you're going to lose anything or not.


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

i want that 6-7% so damn hard cant deal with the mood swings and sh1t


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

philippeb said:


> damm, i dont wanna start a argument or anything
> 
> I'm just not sure - I am what you would call a builder, so i drag and lift heavy **** all day, then i ride a 29" mtb around a lot and work when i get home too, i barely got time for cardio as it is unfortunately.
> 
> Thought the extra work i pull in the weekend could count as "cardio" .. i might not run, but i sure aint sitting on my flat ass..


You actually sound like a carpenter/joiner to me as you build houses with wood?


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

BLUE(UK) said:


> You actually sound like a carpenter/joiner to me as you build houses with wood?


Since english is not my native, i have some problems describing my work in here.

To make it simple, we call it "Tømere" in DK.

A Tømmer is the same as i would call a lumber, so we call it a lumbere in danish, if you translate the word tømmer.

i mainly work with wood, if you can describe it like that.

It's actually kinda odd, cause i was considering moving to another country since i hate the danish society, but i realised i dont even understand my own profession in other languages.. what a stupid thing :/


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## lotus (May 30, 2009)

There is no secret easy way to get and stay in single digit bf percentage , eating under maintenance with consistency will see results . To many people jump from one fad diet to another looking for something that just isn't there


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

lotus said:


> There is no secret easy way to get and stay in single digit bf percentage , eating under maintenance with consistency will see results . To many people jump from one fad diet to another looking for something that just isn't there


I never tried before, wanted to gain some real mass before i tried to cut down.

Now when im 200lb i think it could be a good starting point for me, so i was just seeking advice and good tips


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

philippeb said:


> Since english is not my native, i have some problems describing my work in here.
> 
> To make it simple, we call it "Tømere" in DK.
> 
> ...


I have Googled it, it looks like building timber framed buildings so yes, "carpenter and joiner".

You do better at English than most of us would type Danish....or better than some English people at English!! haha.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I have Googled it, it looks like building timber framed buildings so yes, "carpenter and joiner".
> 
> You do better at English than most of us would type Danish....or better than some English people at English!! haha.


Haha, thanks.

Unfortunately it's because i used to play a ****load of online mmorpg games...

Damm .. i wasted so many hours on this ****, just recently stopped, and its been as hard as quitting coke !


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> You just need to eat less calories than your body needs while hitting a min. protein & fat requirement. Ignore this bs about fasted cardio and carb timing. Just get in a deficit and stay there. Why the fvck is everyone making this out to be harder than it is..


No..why the f&@$ is any man wanting single digit bf of he's not even competing????

Boys u talk about women and issues I think there's some going on here if u want this type of bf just for ego...it's dangerously low..why????


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> No..why the f&@$ is any man wanting single digit bf of he's not even competing????
> 
> Boys u talk about women and issues I think there's some going on here if u want this type of bf just for ego...it's dangerously low..why????


I like to challenge myself.

I decided in 2014 to quit my major coke abuse, my videogaming, taking my career seriusly and working hard each day.

Why wouldent i challenge myself to see if i can do the same as other people do.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

philippeb said:


> I like to challenge myself.
> 
> I decided in 2014 to quit my major coke abuse, my videogaming, taking my career seriusly and working hard each day.
> 
> Why wouldent i challenge myself to see if i can do the same as other people do.


Because ur not them maybe???? Or maybe because if u have an addictive personality as u state above this is the last thing u want to do surely coz u won't be happy with what target u hit and will want to go lower. I just don't see that as a challenge it's a fight with self. So if u get that low what then?? If u was to compete I get it..it has a goal it's more of a challenge and it's not as unhealthy ( generally speaking before I get jumped on) because hopefully after u eat properly and become less focused on fb percentage.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Do you mind either giving me the advice i seek, or stup harassing my way of living ?

Jesus, what kind of human are you ? - the kind that has to put other down like that ?

Telling them they are not good enough to have goals, they shouldent hope or try for anything.

Please, would you just please leave and do somthing else ?

What a bothersome way to wake up for a day.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> No..why the f&@$ is any man wanting single digit bf of he's not even competing????
> 
> Boys u talk about women and issues I think there's some going on here if u want this type of bf just for ego...it's dangerously low..why????


Single digit bf ftw lol


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## lotus (May 30, 2009)

Skye666 said:


> No..why the f&@$ is any man wanting single digit bf of he's not even competing????
> 
> Boys u talk about women and issues I think there's some going on here if u want this type of bf just for ego...it's dangerously low..why????


There's nothing dangerous about being in single digit bf it's the stupid sh1t people seem to do to try and get there , It's also easy to maintain if you know how


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Skye666 said:


> No..why the f&@$ is any man wanting single digit bf of he's not even competing????
> 
> Boys u talk about women and issues I think there's some going on here if u want this type of bf just for ego...it's dangerously low..why????


can you just explain why it matters to you why the OP wants to go low on body fat without competing?

to the OP some of the replies are bang on, you have to create a deficit be this from calories in or calories out but you have to create a deficit, i would not look at a body fat percentage number as people look differently at the same %

to get going look at your current diet, training and cardio schedule, if this is not getting you were you want to go by steady fat loss then adjust accordingly, but don't just slash the calories as this does have a negative side of slowing the metabolism......reduce calories or increase output in small increments then over time you will achieve what you are aiming for as long as you maintain consistency.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> No..why the f&@$ is any man wanting single digit bf of he's not even competing????
> 
> Boys u talk about women and issues I think there's some going on here if u want this type of bf just for ego...it's dangerously low..why????


I'll be whatever you want me to be. Actually, no I won't. I'll be stern and confident!!


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> can you just explain why it matters to you why the OP wants to go low on body fat without competing?
> 
> to the OP some of the replies are bang on, you have to create a deficit be this from calories in or calories out but you have to create a deficit, i would not look at a body fat percentage number as people look differently at the same %
> 
> to get going look at your current diet, training and cardio schedule, if this is not getting you were you want to go by steady fat loss then adjust accordingly, but don't just slash the calories as this does have a negative side of slowing the metabolism......reduce calories or increase output in small increments then over time you will achieve what you are aiming for as long as you maintain consistency.


Ok, so if im loosing weight, i can still archive that super shredded mens physique look without doing more cardio than 30-40 min mtb in terrain each day and mabey som stairmaster + bodybuilding .. and ofc ****in ! lol

Some say the key is cardio dead on evry day, some say no carbs, some say low fat .. but can i just say **** that **** and stick to spending more kcal than i consume ?

I am really sorry if my english grammar sucks  hope you are able to understand my mumblin


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

philippeb said:


> Ok, so if im loosing weight, i can still archive that super shredded mens physique look without doing more cardio than 30-40 min mtb in terrain each day and mabey som stairmaster + bodybuilding .. and ofc ****in ! lol
> 
> Some say the key is cardio dead on evry day, some say no carbs, some say low fat .. but can i just say **** that **** and stick to spending more kcal than i consume ?
> 
> I am really sorry if my english grammar sucks  hope you are able to understand my mumblin


1. Calculate a rough calorie/macronutrient breakdown here: IIFYM Calculator - a 500 calorie deficit is great. So if you maintain at 2500 calories, eat 2000.

1g of protein per lb, 0.33-0.45g fat per lb, rest into carbs is a good starting place.

2. Count your calories/macronutrients at Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com - weigh your foods, account for everything including cooking oils, beverages etc.

3. Follow a weight training program (Yes! Women too, this does not make you look bulky, this is a silly misconception/myth). StrongLifts 5x5, ICF 5x5, Starting Strength - but for females obviously the progression will be slower in terms of strength so progress 50% slower each time. Example: If it says add 5lbs - add 2.5 instead.

4. Don't think you have to train 4-6x a week. 3 is plenty and gives you plenty of time to enjoy lifes pleasures and not burn yourself out fast. Cardio is OPTIONAL and not something you need to do, however for health benefits I'd recommend a little cardio 2-3x a week at a low/moderate intensity for 30-60 minutes.

5. Realise you don't need to give up your favourite foods, this is one that kills people fast - they think they need to eat "clean" and give up all their favourite foods. Obviously, a wholefood nutritious diet is what we want, but you can definitely still fit some of your favourite foods in each day without a problem. Ensure you get plenty of vegetables and a little fruit.

6. Weigh yourself but don't fret over it. Fitbit Official Site for Activity Trackers & More and TrendWeight is two places you can track your weight (daily). You enter it in fitbit and it displays on a graph at trendweight and shows you what weight loss/gain you are having - this gives you peace of mind. If you don't want to weigh daily - just weigh once every 1-2 weeks on the same day in the mornings after using the bathroom and hopefully within a few weeks you'll notice a downward trend.

7. The mirror is your friend, absolutely. This and measurements can be a great way (often better than the scale) to gauge progress. I advise you do all these steps.

8. Remember its a marathon, not a sprint, enjoy the journey.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Yea ... so i tried to calculate my TDEE, it should be 3000 kcal, but i find it a little low ?

Or is it just me ?

Im 5.9 ft, 202 LB

BF max 15%.

2500 on cut seems pretty low to me ? or is it pretty normal for a guy like me ?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

philippeb said:


> Yea ... so i tried to calculate my TDEE, it should be 3000 kcal, but i find it a little low ?
> 
> Or is it just me ?
> 
> ...


Try it. Adjust if you need to.

If you think 2500 is too low, try 2750 - give it 3 weeks, see what happens. Not rocket science mate. The above post I made is *all* you need to know.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you all for evry positive comment and helpful suggestions.

Damm, i should have switched from musclezone.dk to here LONG fckn time ago !


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> can you just explain why it matters to you why the OP wants to go low on body fat without competing?
> 
> to the OP some of the replies are bang on, you have to create a deficit be this from calories in or calories out but you have to create a deficit, i would not look at a body fat percentage number as people look differently at the same %
> 
> to get going look at your current diet, training and cardio schedule, if this is not getting you were you want to go by steady fat loss then adjust accordingly, but don't just slash the calories as this does have a negative side of slowing the metabolism......reduce calories or increase output in small increments then over time you will achieve what you are aiming for as long as you maintain consistency.


It wasnt a question of it mattering if he competed or not it was a matter of seeing some logic in why u would take ur bf to tjose levels if he was and if he wasnt well why...he seems hell bent on getting into the single figures so i was intrested to know why...


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

lotus said:


> There's nothing dangerous about being in single digit bf it's the stupid sh1t people seem to do to try and get there , It's also easy to maintain if you know how


Thanks ..simply put and all i wanted to know!! :thumbup1:


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

philippeb said:


> Do you mind either giving me the advice i seek, or stup harassing my way of living ?
> 
> Jesus, what kind of human are you ? - the kind that has to put other down like that ?
> 
> ...


My post wasnt intended to offend u or put u down .......i was genuinly intrested to kno why. Of course ppl should have goals and of course its up to them what they choose to do but if i read something that makes no logical sense to me im allowed to ask why which is what i did..perhaps u took it the wrong way. I wamted to know in relation to droppong bf that low is it possible to maintain it for long periods or was the goal to hit it then thats it its been acheived ...the type of person i am is inquisitive thats all...anyhow from the other guys post he says u can maintain it..so great answered ..jeez


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Skye666 said:


> It wasnt a question of it mattering if he competed or not it was a matter of seeing some logic in why u would take ur bf to tjose levels if he was and if he wasnt well why...he seems hell bent on getting into the single figures so i was intrested to know why...


Because it looks better to be shredded than smooth


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

stone14 said:


> Because it looks better to be shredded than smooth


Yh I get that lol...but I wasn't assuming it was that simple..I was looking at it differently with the single figure comment and questioning that...anyway shush now I'm not here to get my wrists slapped for questioning something...leaves to sit in corner


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