# back on the bulking up, question about weight gainers



## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

I was taking a weightgainer which added an extra 800 cals a day to my diet but are they what they are made out to be?

I would love to make my own weight gainer with over a thousand cals a drink and have two a day or maybe 3, so one with plenty of protein wich i can get out of powder, carbs which is what i need advice on to put in a drink and preferably as little fat as possible.

My weightgainer isnt a top named brand its from my mates nutrition shop but it seemed to work but not quick enough for me.


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## fastcar_uk (Jan 30, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> I was taking a weightgainer which added an extra 800 cals a day to my diet but are they what they are made out to be?
> 
> I would love to make my own weight gainer with over a thousand cals a drink and have two a day or maybe 3, so one with plenty of protein wich i can get out of powder, carbs which is what i need advice on to put in a drink and preferably as little fat as possible.
> 
> My weightgainer isnt a top named brand its from my mates nutrition shop but it seemed to work but not quick enough for me.


I found the optimum nutrition serious mass a highly effective weight gainer. 1250 cal per shake...take 3 a day.


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

fastcar_uk said:


> I found the optimum nutrition serious mass a highly effective weight gainer. 1250 cal per shake...take 3 a day.


Just made me fat IMO


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## fastcar_uk (Jan 30, 2013)

Jimmysteve95 said:


> Just made me fat IMO


NO mass gainer wont.


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## Pictor (Jan 10, 2011)

If you want high pro and carb with low fat then use whey, and a mix of powdered oats and maltodexrin!

To get the calories high though you'd be better off using fats, peanut butter and oils etc!


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

fastcar_uk said:


> NO mass gainer wont.


Pretty sure anything will if you're going into such a calorific surplus, I rarely go 800 over my maintenance now.

edit: it is called "mass" gainer for a reason


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Big Ste said:


> If you want high pro and carb with low fat then use whey, and a mix of powdered oats and maltodexrin!
> 
> To get the calories high though you'd be better off using fats, peanut butter and oils etc!


Peanut butter in a shake? Does that work mate?


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

harrison180 said:


> Peanut butter in a shake? Does that work mate?


Peanut butter is tasty in a shake.


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

Use your weight gainer and add to that eggs, peanut butter, bananas, things like that you'll easy hit 1000 or search on here and you'll find hundreds of shakes


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

harrison180 said:


> Peanut butter in a shake? Does that work mate?


If you want a relatively cheap mass gainer orientated at more of 400 extra cals for 50p a serving rather than silly amount of cals. I use this :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/XL-Nutrition-Xtra-Protein-Carbs/dp/B00AIZ4NV4


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

It's a doddle to make your own. I currently make one with ice cubes, water, peanut butter, banana, unflavoured whey and oats. Gives around 650 cals. Could easily add more to it and add milk to make over a 1000 cals.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Jimmysteve95 said:


> Pretty sure anything will if you're going into such a calorific surplus, I rarely go 800 over my maintenance now.
> 
> edit: it is called "mass" gainer for a reason


Of course i wana gain mass its the idea but i would like to make my own with maybe just the fats that are in the milk already maybe and not much mpre if its a possiblity.

When i stopped goin to gym and carried on my weight gainer i noticed quite abit of fat building up which i wasnt a fan off.


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

1010AD said:


> Use your weight gainer and add to that eggs, peanut butter, bananas, things like that you'll easy hit 1000 or search on here and you'll find hundreds of shakes


I thought raw eggs in a shake was a big no no?


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Jimmysteve95 said:


> Peanut butter is tasty in a shake.


Ill give it a try mate. I just assumed it wouldnt mix well. Dont wana be drinkin wall paper paste consistency lol


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

harrison180 said:


> Ill give it a try mate. I just assumed it wouldnt mix well. Dont wana be drinkin wall paper paste consistency lol


I've heard if you get the natural stuff it mixes alot better, I've not got round to buying any though


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## PaulB (Jun 6, 2010)

harrison180 said:


> Of course i wana gain mass its the idea but i would like to make my own with maybe just the fats that are in the milk already maybe and not much mpre if its a possiblity.
> 
> When i stopped goin to gym and carried on my weight gainer i noticed quite abit of fat building up which i wasnt a fan off.


Fat doesn't make you fat, surplus calories do. If your shakes fit in with your daily calorie needs and your training properly then you won't put excessive weight on. I try to keep away from simple sugars. The way I see it, simple sugars spike insulin, insulin helps lay down fat. I'll only have simple sugars PWO.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

MessyFunk said:


> An exteme caloric surplus is pointless unless you need to gain a lot of weight ridiculously fast (e.g. competing bodybuilder maybe?)
> 
> You will gain the same muscle mass using perfect macros at maintenance or a few hundred calories surplus, as you either have the nutrients you require to recover or you do not - you cannot force muscles to grow by then consuming a huge surplus of calories.
> 
> You will just gain excess body fat which you will have to dedicate time to cutting if you are on a very high surplus, I posted up an article on this not long ago, maybe worth a read http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition-diet-articles/248037-truth-about-bulking.html


Good point there mate. I dont want to compete or nothing im just impatient lol.

Im not to good at the maths work involved but my goal im 10.5 stone and want to get to 12 by 1st march. I dont think thats an up in the sky goal to aim at imo.

What would you recomend for a kg of weight a month gain? Just ask for any info and if i can ill give it u.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

PaulB said:


> Fat doesn't make you fat, surplus calories do. If your shakes fit in with your daily calorie needs and your training properly then you won't put excessive weight on. I try to keep away from simple sugars. The way I see it, simple sugars spike insulin, insulin helps lay down fat. I'll only have simple sugars PWO.


August when i 1st took it up i worked it out to i needed 3k cals a day to maintain my weight. I was only just getting over that but something was wrong with it.

Im hoping to hit 3500 to 4000 cals if i can


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

MessyFunk said:


> Well I'm not going to change your mind.. what you do is your business - 1kg a month is probably a reasonable target if you do 'bulk' as you will be gaining some muscle mass (provided you train right) and you will be rising a lot in bodyfat% (which will be contributing mostly to weight gained)
> 
> Someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong as I'm no expert in body building but a 400-500 calorie surplus is probably ample if you wish to gain bodyfat also.
> 
> edit: @Major Eyeswater seems to be doing well in these parts lately, I'm sure he can give you some real advice


So in your opinion mate if my maintaince cals is 3k a day i should make good gains on an extra 500. If i keep it as clean as i can i will ad as little body fat to what i have gained?


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

MessyFunk said:


> In my opinion you shouldn't have to 'bulk' at all unless you are a professional bodybuilder or need to make a certain weight for like mma weigh in or something :tongue:
> 
> If you are consuming that much surplus calories you will gain body fat, regardless of what food you eat because your body will not waste nutrients it will store them as fat.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is I think a kg a month is achievable provided you can consistently implement overload into your training and you eat at a few hundred kcal surplus with decent macros so that you have the nutrients your muscles require to recover. If you cannot and you are willing to gain excess body fat to achieve this then take the easy route and gain a load of body fat to reach your weight goal (bulk)


I get ya mate. My metabolism is high so i struggle to put the weight on thats why im set at a kg a month cuz i no i can do it but its abit of a struggle for me. I no i will gain fat but i dont want to gain more fat than muscle in these 3 months if i can.


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

Jimmysteve95 said:


> I thought raw eggs in a shake was a big no no?


Maybe in the 80's. Who told you that and for what reason ??


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## JS95 (Aug 29, 2010)

1010AD said:


> Maybe in the 80's. Who told you that and for what reason ??


post #2 , http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/gaining-weight/248260-bulk-shake.html

read this in many places too


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## Armz (Mar 20, 2012)

I find mass gainers have just made me fat. I rarely have shakes but when I do it's just a simple whey protein coupled with whole foods.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

MessyFunk said:


> Well I'm not going to change your mind.. what you do is your business - 1kg a month is probably a reasonable target if you do 'bulk' as you will be gaining some muscle mass (provided you train right) and you will be rising a lot in bodyfat% (which will be contributing mostly to weight gained)
> 
> Someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong as I'm no expert in body building but a 400-500 calorie surplus is probably ample if you wish to gain bodyfat also.
> 
> edit: @Major Eyeswater seems to be doing well in these parts lately, I'm sure he can give you some real advice


Did I see the Bat Signal ?

MessyFunk is doing a grand job himself IMHO

Caloric surplus of 300-500 is the amount that the likes of Alan Aragon & Lyle McDonald talk about as being the amount that will max out muscle growth. Anything more than this will just make you fatter.

Sometimes, running a bigger caloric surplus can be appropriate. Skinny beginners can sometimes benefit from 'dirty bulking', and lads with very fast metabolisms can often get away with it because fast metabolisms have a tendency to rev up even faster in caloric surplus conditions, burning off some of the extra.

Commercial weight-gainers are okay I suppose. They're convenient & usually taste nice, but they're bloody expensive for what they are, which is basically whey protein & maltodextrin. You pay a lot of extra money for some vitamins, minerals & snake-oil.

I'd agree with the suggestion of making your own. Oats, whey, peanut butter & chocolate gives a drink that does the job, and tastes like a liquidised snickers bar.


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## ableton (May 24, 2013)

200ml whole milk, 200ml double cream, 2 scoops of whey and a bit of oats=1300 calories.does the trick for me


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> August when i 1st took it up i worked it out to i needed 3k cals a day to maintain my weight. I was only just getting over that but something was wrong with it.
> 
> Im hoping to hit 3500 to 4000 cals if i can


The way you're chucking numbers around here make me doubt you can comprehend what they equate to in the real world.

Supplements and shakes aside... Do you know how many calories you consume pre day from food, and how these calories are broken down between protein, fats and carbs?


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

What you need is a SolidCecil Mass Shake (patent pending)

250g chicken breast

1 cup rice

1 cup veg

1 tbsp Evoo

1 pint milk


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

2004mark said:


> The way you're chucking numbers around here make me doubt you can comprehend what they equate to in the real world.
> 
> Supplements and shakes aside... Do you know how many calories you consume pre day from food, and how these calories are broken down between protein, fats and carbs?


not as accurate as i have seem some on here mate. after talkin on this thread i no i need 3k cals a day so ill add a couple of hundred extra at 1st see how that goes cuz i dont want to put to much fat on.

i eat loads of chicken, rice, eggs etc. my diet is mainly meat i dont eat the veg i should. im just lettin my impatience take over again mate and i no i need to give it time. im not bulking for a comp or nothing im farrrr from that standard.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

solidcecil said:


> What you need is a SolidCecil Mass Shake (patent pending)
> 
> 250g chicken breast
> 
> ...


im hoping that taste better than it sounds mate?


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

Jimmysteve95 said:


> post #2 , http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/gaining-weight/248260-bulk-shake.html
> 
> read this in many places too


Yes i know about the bio availability of raw and cooked eggs but I do like to add a couple of eggs to my shake


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## cudsyaj (Jul 5, 2011)

harrison180 said:


> I was taking a weightgainer which added an extra 800 cals a day to my diet but are they what they are made out to be?
> 
> I would love to make my own weight gainer with over a thousand cals a drink and have two a day or maybe 3, so one with plenty of protein wich i can get out of powder, carbs which is what i need advice on to put in a drink and preferably as little fat as possible.
> 
> My weightgainer isnt a top named brand its from my mates nutrition shop but it seemed to work but not quick enough for me.


I've found Mutant Mass PWO only very effective


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

harrison180 said:


> im hoping that taste better than it sounds mate?


Not particularly. Just neck it back.


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

solidcecil said:


> What you need is a SolidCecil Mass Shake (patent pending)
> 
> 250g chicken breast
> 
> ...


 Its just missing some gravy


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

1010AD said:


> Yes i know about the bio availability of raw and cooked eggs but I do like to add a couple of eggs to my shake


It's the white that's the problem. The bioavailability isn't just a case of wasting a few grams of protein. The protein in eggwhite actually fails to digest & goes into your colon, and this has possible implications for your gut flora & even your potential cancer risk.

If I add eggs to a shake, I seperate the yolk & white. Yolks goes in the drink, the whites go into a tuppaware tub in the fridge. They keep for a few days, and can go into the pan the next time I have cooked eggs or fried rice, or I just scramble them up with some cheese to go on top of my dinner.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

solidcecil said:


> Not particularly. Just neck it back.


Like most supplement drinks then. They are all nasty. Im drinkin one now called fuel and its got a vile kind of metal after taste to it. I bought some tasteless bulk powder and add loads of nesquick milk powder to it. Does the job.

I might take your idea tho and turn it into a kinda soup or mix it up with gravy lol


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

Major Eyeswater said:


> It's the white that's the problem. The bioavailability isn't just a case of wasting a few grams of protein. The protein in eggwhite actually fails to digest & goes into your colon, and this has possible implications for your gut flora & even your potential cancer risk.
> 
> If I add eggs to a shake, I seperate the yolk & white. Yolks goes in the drink, the whites go into a tuppaware tub in the fridge. They keep for a few days, and can go into the pan the next time I have cooked eggs or fried rice, or I just scramble them up with some cheese to go on top of my dinner.


I wonder how people like Arnie when on? When I was growing up most older bodybuilders always drank milk with raw eggs.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Just eat more food


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

solidcecil said:


> What you need is a SolidCecil Mass Shake (patent pending)
> 
> 250g chicken breast
> 
> ...


Thats the most harrowing thing ive ever seen in my life.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

1010AD said:


> I wonder how people like Arnie when on? When I was growing up most older bodybuilders always drank milk with raw eggs.


He got away with it - just like he got away with popping dianabols like smarties & Keith Richards gets away with his lifestyle.

Just because people do it & survive doesn't mean it's the best way to do things.


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> Thats the most harrowing thing ive ever seen in my life.


Give it a go. It's for when you don't have the appetite to eat it.

Tasty


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## lickatsplit (Aug 21, 2012)

or mix in a tin of coconut milk with your shakes


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## GeordieSteve (May 23, 2010)

fastcar_uk said:


> I found the optimum nutrition serious mass a highly effective weight gainer. 1250 cal per shake...take 3 a day.


Yep I use serious mass. Only use one a day after training because of the sugary carbs but 252g of carbs is a massive amount of my macros. Certainly helps


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

solidcecil said:


> Give it a go. It's for when you don't have the appetite to eat it.
> 
> Tasty


never!!! LOL no physique is worth that!!


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> not as accurate as i have seem some on here mate. after talkin on this thread i no i need 3k cals a day so ill add a couple of hundred extra at 1st see how that goes cuz i dont want to put to much fat on.
> 
> i eat loads of chicken, rice, eggs etc. my diet is mainly meat i dont eat the veg i should. im just lettin my impatience take over again mate and i no i need to give it time. im not bulking for a comp or nothing im farrrr from that standard.


tbh I'd be supprised if your mainenance is 3k cals at 10.5 stone. That should be pleantly to bulk on in itself (and this is coming from a typical ecto). The key is consistancey. Even at 3k cals I felt like I was force feeding myself when I was 11 stone, so it's hard to keep it up day in day out, but this is where the results come from... not just hitting it hard 2-3 days a week and then not bothering the others. If your consistant you won't need as many cals as you probably think.

If you don't I'd suggest you use myfitnesspal for a bit. Really helps you get your head around what's involved.


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## reza85 (Jan 11, 2009)

My maintenance is just over 3 and I'm just shy of 14 stones how's urs 3000 ? What to run to work instead of public transport or a car


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

2004mark said:


> tbh I'd be supprised if your mainenance is 3k cals at 10.5 stone. That should be pleantly to bulk on in itself (and this is coming from a typical ecto). The key is consistancey. Even at 3k cals I felt like I was force feeding myself when I was 11 stone, so it's hard to keep it up day in day out, but this is where the results come from... not just hitting it hard 2-3 days a week and then not bothering the others. If your consistant you won't need as many cals as you probably think.
> 
> If you don't I'd suggest you use myfitnesspal for a bit. Really helps you get your head around what's involved.


i feel like im forcing 3k cals down and sometimes dont reach it. i have been using myfitnesspal as a rough guide cuz i dont weigh my foods like some do so cant get exact cals from my dinner or whatever. only problem is its baffled me. i used it when i 1st started in august but then uninstalled it when i stopped, using it again i put the same info in and got different cal goals. 1st time it was 3500 now its 3000 cals.

is the cal goal it gives you taking in mind the 1lb a week gain i set it to?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

2 litres gold top milk daily cost £2 and gets you 1620 cals .

3 meals of tinned new tatties veg and 250g of red/white meat will see you over the 3.5 k cal mark .


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

ewen said:


> 2 litres gold top milk daily cost £2 and gets you 1620 cals .
> 
> 3 meals of tinned new tatties veg and 250g of red/white meat will see you over the 3.5 k cal mark .


i was drinking loads of gold top milk just for the cals. i think ill start weighing my foods more so i get the right amount. seems like 250g is the magic number for meats


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

harrison180 said:


> i was drinking loads of gold top milk just for the cals. i think ill start weighing my foods more so i get the right amount. seems like 250g is the magic number for meats


Is 'loads' some new scientific measuring method ?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> is the cal goal it gives you taking in mind the 1lb a week gain i set it to?


Come agin lol



harrison180 said:


> i was drinking loads of gold top milk just for the cals. i think ill start weighing my foods more so i get the right amount. seems like 250g is the magic number for meats


Not magic.. just a decent portion that divides nicely into 1kg lol


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

ewen said:


> Is 'loads' some new scientific measuring method ?


anything from 1 to 5 bottles a day but averaged the 1 to 3 bottles mostly. starts to get abit expensive after a week or so, so i stopped drinking so much. plus i read to much dairy gives you kidney stones which i would like to avoid thank you


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

harrison180 said:


> anything from 1 to 5 bottles a day but averaged the 1 to 3 bottles mostly. starts to get abit expensive after a week or so, so i stopped drinking so much. plus i read to much dairy gives you kidney stones which i would like to avoid thank you


5 litres a day ?


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

2004mark said:


> Come agin lol
> 
> Not magic.. just a decent portion that divides nicely into 1kg lol


on myfitnesspal it asks for your height, weight etc then asks if you want to gain weight or lose weight. i chose the gain a 1lb a week option as that was the max u can choose. when you have finished it gives you the calorie goal for you. is this working out your maintenance and adding what cals you need extra aswel? eg 3k cals a day is my maintenance and the extra cals i need to gain weight?

if this is so i dont understand why 1st time i used the app it said i need 3500 and with the same info put in this time its 3000.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

ewen said:


> 5 litres a day ?


a couple of times. couldnt do it tho so i stuck to drinking 3 bottles. 1 in the morning, 1 afternoon and one before bed. each drunk over an hour or so i didnt neck them. i found 5 bottles to much even spread out over a day, that was mainly in the hot weather which also probably wasn't the best of ideas.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

harrison180 said:


> i used it when i 1st started in august but then uninstalled it when i stopped, using it again i put the same info in and got different cal goals. 1st time it was 3500 now its 3000 cals.


Therein lies your problem mate - you're relying on new-fangled smartphone apps instead of working it out properly.

In my day, we had to use slate & an abacus


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Therein lies your problem mate - you're relying on new-fangled smartphone apps instead of working it out properly.
> 
> In my day, we had to use slate & an abacus


i'll invest in those then mate  . its not a bad app when you can scan bar codes on foods to get the accurate info of them but its cuz theres a 500 calorie difference using the same personal info im not sure i trust it anymore so its just a rough guide.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

The thing is, even if you work out your maintenance from first principles using your lean bodymass & activity factors, you are still only going to get a number that's accurate to the nearest 15 or 20 percent, because this is the amount that individuals vary in their metabolic rate even when everything else is held constant.

The only real way to do it is log what's coming IN & compare it to what's happening with your weight & bodyfat levels.


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## harrison180 (Aug 6, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> The thing is, even if you work out your maintenance from first principles using your lean bodymass & activity factors, you are still only going to get a number that's accurate to the nearest 15 or 20 percent, because this is the amount that individuals vary in their metabolic rate even when everything else is held constant.
> 
> The only real way to do it is log what's coming IN & compare it to what's happening with your weight & bodyfat levels.


i'll give it ago mate and work stuff out better than i have been doing. last time i never used to hit my calorie goal on myfitnesspal but never lost weight either. i am inbetween the 67/68kg mark atm and went up from about 65kg. aslong as im not going down in weight im happy enough


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