# lenny mclean ?



## nobbysnuts123

Naturally big ? ? ?


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## nobbysnuts123

Never heard of him lol ?

He's an animal.


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## Milky

Lenny was THE ORIGINAL BOUNCER !!

He was a fu**ing animal !!


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## nobbysnuts123




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## nobbysnuts123

I can't fcking stand dave courtney though.


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## lumpy

get his book , its the fcukin nuts he was the hardest man in Brittan


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## Milky

nobbysnuts123 said:


> I can't fcking stand dave courtney though.


Never really heard much about him so cant really comment TBH

:thumbup1:


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## Syko

He was the Guvnor

Anyone read his book?


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## Mr.GoodKat

Lenny McLeans book is ****ing brilliant, the only book I've read more than once!


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## hamsternuts

he was Barry the Baptist in Lock Stock

supposedly the hardest man in britain in his prime. Who knows?

unless you're in the Row Shaw camp.


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## Syko

Yeah the book is good

Ive read the tapes that were done to make the book to


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## hamsternuts

just watched the second vid, well funny.

that gypsy proper mugged himself off!


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## m575

looks like a right nutcase to me lol


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## joe.b

proper brawler lol


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## joe.b

words of wisdom from lenny






alot of people out there these days really need to take note:


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## bry1979

my old man watched him fight pretty boy roy shaw on hackney marshes years ago, he was awesome, def the hardest of that era.


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## D92

his book is exaggerated beyond belief.

He was a bully and not liked by many.


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## nobbysnuts123

fcking massive aswell


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## Bucknut

Hardest man in his own living room.....couldn't fill a sicknote in....lol.


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## LunaticSamurai

The guy was a legend in his time. He was they guy that got paid to sort **** out when no-one else could.

McLean, Shaw, Courtney, all bad men.


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## nobbysnuts123

courtney was not a bad man he's a fcking loser!

he bigged himself up and CLAIMED to be this and that.

He claimed to have had his nose bit off, and to have been shot, and to have killed about 40 people or so.

He's a liar and fake


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## D92

LunaticSamurai said:


> The guy was a legend in his time. He was they guy that got paid to sort **** out when no-one else could.
> 
> McLean, Shaw, Courtney, all bad men.


How old are you 12 ??


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## joe.b

nobbysnuts123 said:


> courtney was not a bad man he's a fcking loser!
> 
> he bigged himself up and CLAIMED to be this and that.
> 
> He claimed to have had his nose bit off, and to have been shot, and to have killed about 40 people or so.
> 
> He's a liar and fake


 saw him in a porn mag a while back,posing with his pecker out with a couple of hot chicks.

bit too 'celeb for' my liking


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## LunaticSamurai

D92 said:


> How old are you 12 ??


 Explain?


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## Milky

LunaticSamurai said:


> Explain?


X 2

:confused1:


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## GeordieSteve

Naturally big. He was an animal. Roy still is huge even at his age. Courtney is a mate of mine


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## Rasputin

Fooking animal met a few guys who claimed to have sparred with him back in the day not sure i believe em though. I know one chap who was lifting weights at a gym he trained at and said he was strong as an ox.


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## Mr.GoodKat

hamsternuts said:


> he was Barry the Baptist in Lock Stock
> 
> supposedly the hardest man in britain in his prime. Who knows?
> 
> unless you're in the Row Shaw camp.


Didn't he beat Row Shaw twice inc. a 1st round KO?


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## GeordieSteve

Roy beat Lenny as well. Both huge men. The Guvnor was a great book


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## Dig

His books are a good read, very entertaining but obv got to take it all with a pinch of salt like most books in that genre. No doubting he was a hard guy though!!


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## nobbysnuts123

I read bronson's biography, it was just full of loads of sh1te, yeah he was hard, but fcking hell, no need to big yourself up that much, he sounded like a bit of a pr1ck.


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## sully807

nobbysnuts123 said:


> I read bronson's biography, it was just full of loads of sh1te, yeah he was hard, but fcking hell, no need to big yourself up that much, he sounded like a bit of a pr1ck.


bronson is loopy though, what you gtta remember


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## BillC

Love all these hard men. Funny how they all come from London. Or could it be that just like ythe Krays, they were left alone to big themselves up in London, but warned to stay away from the North by the real hardmen.

Also yeah, great guy, only murdered one bloke for taking the mick out of him/ being a bit gobby. Should be greatful as I got the dead mans job some 14 years ago


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## BlitzAcez

Whos the modern day lenny then?


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## Milky

BlitzAcez said:


> Whos the modern day lenny then?


Are you fu**ing STUPID !!!

THE ONE

THE ONLY

THE HARDEST MAN ON UKM

THE ROBSTA !!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## hamsternuts

love all these comments about a man who was in his prime over 30 years ago

who really knows?

all i know is, i'm not arrogant enough to assume they were all talking sh!t, and if lenny was still alive, i STILL wouldn't try it on with him, and i'm man enough to admit it


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## Milky

hamsternuts said:


> love all these comments about a man who was in his prime over 30 years ago
> 
> who really knows?
> 
> all i know is, i'm not arrogant enough to assume they were all talking sh!t, and if lenny was still alive, i STILL wouldn't try it on with him, and i'm man enough to admit it


Totally agree mate..

Lets be honest he didnt look like he couldnt fight did he !!


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## nobbysnuts123

lennys dead ?


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## hamsternuts

gemilky69 said:


> Totally agree mate..
> 
> Lets be honest he didnt look like he couldnt fight did he !!


fighting style has changed ALOT, and in his day, he was a the top of his game.

would he stand up in today's fighting world? No.

does he deserve respect for being as good as he was in his day? Yes.

that's respect as a fighter mind, not as a character, don't know enough to comment on that.


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## hamsternuts

yeah mate, lock stock was dedicated to him, in the credits


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## nobbysnuts123

hamsternuts said:


> yeah mate, lock stock was dedicated to him, in the credits


he was in it though, did he die half way through ?

How did he die


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## Milky

hamsternuts said:


> fighting style has changed ALOT, and in his day, he was a the top of his game.
> 
> would he stand up in today's fighting world? No.
> 
> does he deserve respect for being as good as he was in his day? Yes.
> 
> that's respect as a fighter mind, not as a character, don't know enough to comment on that.


In all fairness mate dont think he followed the queensbury rules did he..


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## jimmy79

nobbysnuts123 said:


> he was in it though, did he die half way through ?
> 
> How did he die


len died of cancer just days before his book hit the no1 best seller...


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## jimmy79

lenny and roy fought 3 times roy won the first lenny the last 2. len was alot younger than roy, also roy was a middle weight fighter he just gained alot of weight in prison he was also a pro boxer under the name of roy west. aparantly roy kept hounding lenny foir a rematch but lenny was retierd, len used to say leave it out roy im to old, to which roy replied ur the same age now as i was when i beat you the first time!


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## jimmy79

BlitzAcez said:


> Whos the modern day lenny then?


well "storming" norman buckland is called the guvnor...matty attaral, big joe joyce there are still loads of "knuckle" men around


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## XL BODIES LTD

jimmy79 said:


> well "storming" norman buckland is called the guvnor...matty attaral, big joe joyce there are still loads of "knuckle" men around


Matt Attrell has to be todays best Bare Knuckler, Joyce is an old man now!

But every town up and down the country has some useful fighters we never hear about, the days of the real "Guv'nur" are long gone.


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## D92

zzzz zzzz zzzz


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## Milky

D92 said:


> zzzz zzzz zzzz


Is that that song by LL Cool J and Jennifer Lopez ??


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## hamsternuts

gemilky69 said:


> In all fairness mate dont think he followed the queensbury rules did he..


no mate, but he followed the same rules as whoever was standing in front of him in the ring....


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## hamsternuts

D92 said:


> zzzz zzzz zzzz


you really are quite pointless aren't you


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## Milky

hamsternuts said:


> no mate, but he followed the same rules as whoever was standing in front of him in the ring....


Yeah fair point :thumbup1:


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## nobbysnuts123

chilisi said:


> He mentions taking gear in his book.. Sounds like a nice guy.


yeah he looks like he does, not that I like to judge people... but he is a very big bloke considering what he looked like in his younger days.


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## WaxOnWaxOff

Didn't he claim Ali was too afraid to fight him? Ali would have clowned him in about 15 seconds.


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## hamsternuts

WaxOnWaxOff said:


> Didn't he claim Ali was too afraid to fight him? Ali would have clowned him in about 15 seconds.


would he?

who knows.

no-one, that's who.


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## nobbysnuts123

hamsternuts said:


> would he?
> 
> who knows.
> 
> no-one, that's who.


lmao


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## hamsternuts

well it's true isn't it?

all these armchair experts who say who could have beaten who, when both have been dead for years

yes, it is more likely that ali would have won

but who would have thought buster douglas would have beaten tyson?


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## bennyboy

Lenny wasnt a world heavy weight boxing champ, cant compare the two imo


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## hamsternuts

bennyboy said:


> Lenny wasnt a world heavy weight boxing champ, cant compare the two imo


no, and Ali never fought a bareknuckle match in Lenny's world either

just saying.

why isn't anyone on here man enough to just admit that they don't know?

not just about this match up, there's so many other examples of people spouting on here about stuff that NO-ONE can really know a definate answer


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## LunaticSamurai

Unless two fighters have faught, you cant compare any fighter, lb for lb, knock out for knock out who is best???? who knows.

Would Bruce Lee win against someone of equal weight today? who knows.

Would Ali win against, Mclean, who knows.

Is there life on Mars????????????


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## vetran

> Lenny wasnt a world heavy weight boxing champ' date='[/b']] cant compare the two imo


no he wouldent have the stamina ,but if he got one in he def would have floored one for sure lol


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## hamsternuts

LunaticSamurai said:


> Unless two fighters have faught, you cant compare any fighter, lb for lb, knock out for knock out who is best???? who knows.
> 
> Would Bruce Lee win against someone of equal weight today? who knows.
> 
> Would Ali win against, Mclean, who knows.
> 
> Is there life on Mars????????????


amen bro


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## Rasputin

hamsternuts said:


> well it's true isn't it?
> 
> all these armchair experts who say who could have beaten who, when both have been dead for years
> 
> yes, it is more likely that ali would have won
> 
> but who would have thought buster douglas would have beaten tyson?


I think Ali as others have alluded to would have destroyed him even in a brawl because I dont think he would have had the ego to stand there and go toe to toe with a monster like Lenny he would have just used his speed to out manoevre him.


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## WaxOnWaxOff

OF course we can compare fighters, there are loads of footage of both fighters and can examine their styles and see how they would match.

Mclean's walk straight in front of you, throwing haymakers, chin up in the air would get him sparked pretty quickly against probablly all well schooled heavyweight contenders, nevermind probably the best in history.


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## LunaticSamurai

Rasputin said:


> I think Ali as others have alluded to would have destroyed him even in a brawl because I dont think he would have had the ego to stand there and go toe to toe with a monster like Lenny he would have just used his speed to out manoevre him.


But Mclean would have deflected every blow with his beard.


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## hamsternuts

comparing's one thing, it's all good, finding a PROBABLE winner.

it's when someone is sooo sure that, in this case Ali, would win, they laugh in your face and attempt to make you feel stupid for comparing them in the first place.


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## LunaticSamurai

Lesnar thought he was the badest man on the planet, look how that turned out.


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## bennyboy

Being the best in london is a little bit different to being the best in the world but we could argue this all day and there will never be an answer just opinions mate.


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## LunaticSamurai

romper stomper said:


> Did he ever meet Bartley ??
> 
> 1st March 1944 - 18th January 2002
> 
> Bartley Gorman, the most famous bareknuckle boxer of modern times, died on 18 January, 2002, aged 57.
> 
> During his heyday he reigned supreme in the world of illegal gypsy boxing. He was the undefeated Bareknuckle Champion of Great Britain & Ireland between 1972 and 1992.
> 
> His fame was such that world heavyweight boxing champion Muhammad Ali even came to hear of his exploits and once sparred with him.
> 
> Ali was one of the bareknuckle fighter's heroes and he based much of his fighting techniques on the boxing skills of "The Greatest."
> 
> Also known as the King of the Gypsies, Bartley Gorman was both feared and respected by his peers. He was born on 1 March, 1944 in Giltbrook, Nottinghamshire, to Samuel and Katy Gorman, who later moved to Bedworth, near Coventry, so that their children could attend school.
> 
> Samuel Gorman was a religious, law-abiding man who did not fight. However, Bartley was very proud of his gypsy heritage and fighting was a tradition - it was also in his blood.
> 
> His great-grandfather, Boxing Bartley, was an Irish bareknuckle champion in the 19th century, and his grandfather, Bulldog Bartley, was also an unbeaten bareknuckle boxer.
> 
> The traumatic experience of seeing his uncle killed with one punch by a showman when he was just nine years old failed to deter him from following in his ancestors' footsteps.
> 
> Fighting came naturally to the red-haired youngster, and he grew up to be a fierce opponent. At 6ft 1 ins tall and weighing in at 15 and a half stone, he was formidable.
> 
> Wherever travelling men met and brawled, Bartley Gorman was there, and not one boxer could beat him. Travellers would gamble thousands of pounds on his fights, but for him it was not about money - he prided himself on boxing for honour.
> 
> These prize fights were held in a variety of places to avoid the attention of the police. On one occasion he even fought a man at the bottom of a mineshaft in Derbyshire.


 Nice.

Funny how when someone comes on that knows thier sh1t the stupid comments stop.

Anyone watch "Fight" cant remember the channel, but it was about the history of boxing?


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## Uriel

I liked lenny's book, he seemed a charismatic bloke, obviously if you don't know him - you can't say much.

I'd love to have seen him in the gym - see if he could bench 500lb as claimed, there's little doubt he was a big scary man.

I've read shaw's book too


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## Syko

Uriel said:


> I've read shaw's book too


Yeah Roy Shaws book was good, i even watched this documentry about him yesterday :thumbup1:






Theres 5 parts to it


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## nobbysnuts123

LunaticSamurai said:


> Nice.
> 
> Funny how when someone comes on that knows thier sh1t the stupid comments stop.
> 
> Anyone watch "Fight" cant remember the channel, but it was about the history of boxing?


Know's his sh1t?

I can copy and paste too.


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## frenchie

Show's that cancer beats everyone, even men like McLean. Was a good book though, funny how both Shaw and McLean come up with excuses as to why they lost their bouts. McLean from what I remember of his book did travel the country and would fight anyone so he did venture out from London.....


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## Barker

Bit silly really

'im the aaadest bloke'

'no i am!'

Gun shot to the head would shut 'em all up.


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## hamsternuts

Barker said:


> Bit silly really
> 
> 'im the aaadest bloke'
> 
> 'no i am!'
> 
> Gun shot to the head would shut 'em all up.


this statement is true, but also utterly pointless.


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## jimmy79

im pretty sure that lenny never mentioned his loss to shaw in his book, and from the legend both men claimed to not know who bartley gorman was....


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## keir27

nobbysnuts123 said:


> Naturally big ? ? ?


i think when this video was done he had been using roids, not too sure when he started using but i know he definetly did.


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## jimmy79

the second link in my above post is lenny pre steroid days......


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## jimmy79

this is early lenny aswell, he looks a pretty average fighter, yes he would destroy me, but not ali! you gotta remember he was just a roughie toughie he was not a properly trained boxer.


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## bennyboy

LunaticSamurai said:


> Nice.
> 
> Funny how when someone comes on that knows thier sh1t the stupid comments stop.You live in a fantasy world to think Lenny would beat one of the best fighters who ever lived, not taking anything away from lenny he was one tough bastard but he wasnt the best in the world and Ali was, end of.
> 
> I think you need to stop reading these gangster books mate:thumb:
> 
> Anyone watch "Fight" cant remember the channel, but it was about the history of boxing?


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## Barker

hamsternuts said:


> this statement is true, but also utterly pointless.


Nah whats pointless is bare knuckle fighting.

Theres ****ing videos on youtube and theres women and kids watching, in enjoyment?! Kids!!! I think it's an absolute joke. A real, decent hard man doesn't need to go round beating every bastard up to show how hard he is, just needs to look after himself.

Not saying i would mess with any of these guys, i wouldn't at all id get ripped to shreds, it's just stupid imo, especially when kids are born into the lifestyle.


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## Uriel

Barker said:


> Nah whats pointless is bare knuckle fighting.
> 
> Theres ****ing videos on youtube and theres women and kids watching, in enjoyment?! Kids!!! I think it's an absolute joke. A real, decent hard man doesn't need to go round beating every bastard up to show how hard he is, just needs to look after himself.
> 
> Not saying i would mess with any of these guys, i wouldn't at all id get ripped to shreds, it's just stupid imo, especially when kids are born into the lifestyle.


Look, it doesn't matter if you approve of it - the fact is the world of fighting exists and has done for a long long time - people can choose to enter that world or not.

Mclean wasn't beating old ladies or shop keepers up or picking on little boys, he choose to pit himself against other men in the same world.

As for people choosing to go and watch it or whatever - I think if you turn up to the odd fight - you'd be amazed at who you'd see in the audience.

He was doing something which harmed no one outside that world and if he was on the door in a club - you'd be well warned if you were out of line - your choice if you ignore the warning.


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## Barker

I'm sure half the kids ive seen watchin on videos don't choose to watch, they're probably taken to watch fights as babies so they think it's normal. Fair play if they're not hurting anyone else it's just a bit pathetic fighting to be the hardest guy.


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## Syko

Most of it was for money along with the name

Lenny was one hard man, if you read his book you will know this

He had no fear, he would steam into 10 men and 9 times out of 10 he would come out on top :thumbup1:

I beleive 80% of fighting is in the head

Look at Frank Fraiser, he was a tiny man but would fight anyone


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## Barker

Bet he couldn't work out angles in a triangle though


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## Uriel

Barker said:


> I'm sure half the kids ive seen watchin on videos don't choose to watch, they're probably taken to watch fights as babies so they think it's normal. Fair play if they're not hurting anyone else it's just a bit pathetic fighting to be the hardest guy.


taking kids along is obviously questionable and not something I'd condone but striving to be at the top of any game is a man thing and very human.....to be the best politician, copper, fireman, boxer or vicar, ie anything......is entirely normal


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## Uriel

Barker said:


> Bet he couldn't work out angles in a triangle though


I bet he'd be sobing at that cutting remark if he were alive:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Barker

I don't see why they don't get into boxing or something though?

I'm not trying to be some big puff and i'm not usually like this about violent things, but bare knuckle fighting, in my opinion, is silly. They should go into boxing or something.


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## jimmy79

bare knuckle fighting is much better for you than boxing you can only hit someone a certain number of times before your hand will break, most knuckle fights are over very quickly. Once you are wearing a boxing glove you can punch someones head all day long, the only thing that a boxing glove protects is the fighters hands. there is a very rare documentry done by lenny about the history of knuckle fighting its called bare fist, in which he talks to various people who explain this....more people died since the queensbury rules have been introduced.


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## jimmy79

here you go found !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Milky

jimmy79 said:


> im pretty sure that lenny never mentioned his loss to shaw in his book, and from the legend both men claimed to not know who *bartley gorman* was....


*Was he king of the gypsies or something ?*

*Name rings a bell from a book my mate read l think..*


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## jimmy79

gemilky69 said:


> *Was he king of the gypsies or something ?*
> 
> *Name rings a bell from a book my mate read l think..*


yes mate watch the top link in the original post is a short 10 min doc that shane meadows done to drum up intrest in a feature film on bartleys life!


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## Guest

Lenny Mclean just LOL. Honestly I think a lot of you need to grow up and stop reading his books as there messing with your head. Oh he fought over 4,000 bare knuckle fights, this and that. He was nothing but a big overgrown fcking pillock. He was a 22stone fat yop that was weak as cat**** for his size FACT!

Go look at his OFFICIAL record, instead of buying into bull****. The guy was a joke just like Roy Shaw, David ''pecker'' Courtney and the rest of the story book hardmen.

All you have to do is look at his technique against the milkmen he fought & his OFFICIAL record (not the ones he made up).

He got knocked out TWICE in a round against John Waldron, a guy half his size who barely weighed 165lbs.


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## Greyphantom

Barker said:


> Nah whats pointless is bare knuckle fighting.
> 
> Theres videos on youtube and theres women and kids watching, in enjoyment?! Kids!!! I think it's an absolute joke. A real, decent hard man doesn't need to go round beating every one up to show how hard he is, just needs to look after himself.
> 
> Not saying i would mess with any of these guys, i wouldn't at all id get ripped to shreds, it's just stupid imo, especially when kids are born into the lifestyle.





Syko said:


> Most of it was for money along with the name
> 
> Lenny was one hard man, if you read his book you will know this
> 
> He had no fear, he would steam into 10 men and 9 times out of 10 he would come out on top :thumbup1:
> 
> I beleive 80% of fighting is in the head
> 
> Look at Frank Fraiser, he was a tiny man but would fight anyone


I met mad frankie fraiser (if I am correct in the person I am thinking of) as he used to own the building a gym I worked in was in and he just seemed so unassuming and nice... if I didnt know better...



Barker said:


> I don't see why they don't get into boxing or something though?
> 
> I'm not trying to be some big puff and i'm not usually like this about violent things, but bare knuckle fighting, in my opinion, is silly. They should go into boxing or something.





jimmy79 said:


> bare knuckle fighting is much better for you than boxing you can only hit someone a certain number of times before your hand will break, most knuckle fights are over very quickly. Once you are wearing a boxing glove you can punch someones head all day long, the only thing that a boxing glove protects is the fighters hands. there is a very rare documentry done by lenny about the history of knuckle fighting its called bare fist, in which he talks to various people who explain this....more people died since the queensbury rules have been introduced.


Jimmy79 you beat me to it...


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## LunaticSamurai

dan-cov-boxer said:


> Lenny Mclean just LOL. Honestly I think a lot of you need to grow up and stop reading his books as there messing with your head. Oh he fought over 4,000 bare knuckle fights, this and that. He was nothing but a big overgrown fcking pillock. He was a 22stone fat yop that was weak as cat**** for his size FACT!
> 
> Go look at his OFFICIAL record, instead of buying into bull****. The guy was a joke just like Roy Shaw, David ''pecker'' Courtney and the rest of the story book hardmen.
> 
> All you have to do is look at his technique against the milkmen he fought & his OFFICIAL record (not the ones he made up).
> 
> He got knocked out TWICE in a round against John Waldron, a guy half his size who barely weighed 165lbs.


 Interesting, i must admit i have his book but i wasn't aware of that.


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## Guest

Frankie Frasier = Another story book hard man. Little half pint wanabe that was thick as pig****. In jail most of his life for mugging old ladies and thinking he was something special.

About time that old **** dropped dead, ****er still thought he was something when he was like 80.


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## jimmy79

dan-cov-boxer said:


> Lenny Mclean just LOL. Honestly I think a lot of you need to grow up and stop reading his books as there messing with your head. Oh he fought over 4,000 bare knuckle fights, this and that. He was nothing but a big overgrown fcking pillock. He was a 22stone fat yop that was weak as cat**** for his size FACT!
> 
> Go look at his OFFICIAL record, instead of buying into bull****. The guy was a joke just like Roy Shaw, David ''pecker'' Courtney and the rest of the story book hardmen.
> 
> All you have to do is look at his technique against the milkmen he fought & his OFFICIAL record (not the ones he made up).
> 
> He got knocked out TWICE in a round against John Waldron, a guy half his size who barely weighed 165lbs.


the guy half his size was cliff fields...... and johnny " bottlenose" waldron there is a video of le sparring with him


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## micreed

Re: lenny mclean ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lenny Mclean just LOL. Honestly I think a lot of you need to grow up and stop reading his books as there messing with your head. Oh he fought over 4,000 bare knuckle fights, this and that. He was nothing but a big overgrown fcking pillock. He was a 22stone fat yop that was weak as cat**** for his size FACT!

Go look at his OFFICIAL record, instead of buying into bull****. The guy was a joke just like Roy Shaw, David ''pecker'' Courtney and the rest of the story book hardmen.

All you have to do is look at his technique against the milkmen he fought & his OFFICIAL record (not the ones he made up).

He got knocked out TWICE in a round against John Waldron, a guy half his size who barely weighed 165lbs.

lol well said ..but now you have ****ed off the nap brigade innit...


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## Syko

dan-cov-boxer said:


> He was nothing but a big overgrown fcking pillock. He was a 22stone fat yop that was weak as cat**** for his size FACT!


And would you say that to him if he was hear today? :laugh:

He was hard but it dont matter how hard you are there is someone harder round the cornor


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## Guest

Oh I thought according to Lenny that Cliff Fields was like some 7ft tall, 20 odd stone monster?

So in other words he was barely 6ft and 10 stone.


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## jimmy79

dan-cov-boxer said:


> Oh I thought according to Lenny that Cliff Fields was like some 7ft tall, 20 odd stone monster?
> 
> So in other words he was barely 6ft and 10 stone.


clifff fields video......






quick copy and paste....

Cliff Field, born 06/03/1943 in Dunstable, England, also known as "Cliffy Field" and "Iron Man", was a former bare-knuckle boxing champion during the 1970s and 1980s. He also spent time in the Royal Navy, where after he trained and lived in a scrapyard to become a bareknuckle boxing champion after being refused a licence by the British Boxing Board of Control because he lost an eye by being glassed during a bar-room brawl. He is notable for having beaten Lenny McLean twice, both time by knockout. In a 1982 bankruptcy case, McLean described Field by saying "He [Field] looked as though he had come out of the mountains. He was six foot seven inches, weighed 19½ stone and was as strong as a horse".


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## jimmy79

Unknown number of wins , 4 recorded losses , 0 Draws

Res. Opponent Type Rd., Time Date Location Notes

Loss Johnny "Big Bad" Waldron KO 1 Unknown

Loss Johnny "Big Bad" Waldron KO 1 Unknown

Loss Cliff Field KO 1 Unknown

Win "Man Mountain" York KO 1 1986

Win "Mad Gypsy" Bradshaw KO 1 1986

Loss Roy Shaw Points, no KO Unknown Unknown McLean claimed his defeat was due to "doctored" gloves given to him by Shaw's coach, deliberately offering McLean less manoeuvrability.

Win Roy Shaw Unknown 1 Unknown

Win Roy Shaw KO 1 (3) 1978 Rainbow Theatre in Finsbury Park, London

Win John McCormack KO 1 (3) Unknown New York City


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## Guest

Syko said:


> And would you say that to him if he was hear today? :laugh:
> 
> He was hard but it dont matter how hard you are there is someone harder round the cornor


No I probably wouldn't as he'd be what, 80 odd and i'd feel bad. Well put and very true but his record suggests to me he wasn't hard at all. He lost nearly half of his fights and was knocked out cold twice by a fairly poor boxer half his size. I mean this joke artist Lenny Mclean apparently called out Muhammad Ali & Charles Bronson just LOL! Some south end wannabe gangster calling out Ali...Too funny!


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## Syko

micreed said:


> lol well said ..but now you have ****ed off the nap brigade innit...


Your posts confuse me :confused1:

See this >>>  <<<

Use it :laugh:


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## Guest

That guy in the video is meant to be 6ft7 and 20 stone? Hahaha! Adds to the proof that Mclean i full of ****. If he is 6ft7 and 20stone then everyone else in the video must be kicking on 7ft and 25stone.


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## keir27

Frankie Frasier = SMS (small man syndrome)


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## jimmy79

dan-cov-boxer said:


> That guy in the video is meant to be 6ft7 and 20 stone? Hahaha! Adds to the proof that Mclean i full of ****. If he is 6ft7 and 20stone then everyone else in the video must be kicking on 7ft and 25stone.


len never mentioned the knock out he sufferd to cliff in his book, but that says it all.... leny was a hard man yes but against a pro boxer...knocked out in the first round twice....


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## keir27

theres a massive difference between bareknuckle fighters and pro boxers you cant compare the two


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## Guest

A pro boxer yes that only had 9 fights and zero amateur background. He was 165lbs, imagine if McLean had fought Ali not like he would of took the chump serious enough. Can you imagine what Ali would of done to him?

Pity it didn't happen, he could of boasted in his book about fighting a 3 time heavyweight boxing champion & how he did this and that and Ali couldn't land because of his amazing defense & how he knocked Ali out with a jab, lol.


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## Syko

keir27 said:


> Frankie Frasier = SMS (small man syndrome)


His heart wernt small though

Video of Charles Bronson talking about Frank :thumbup1:


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## krave

My Grandad used to associate with him. Used to do a lot of bouncer work for a rave venue called powerhouse iirc.


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## Guest

Listen to him, what a stupid little ****.


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## keir27

it also seems very convinient that lenny didnt know who Bartley Gorman was!


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## jimmy79

keir27 said:


> theres a massive difference between bareknuckle fighters and pro boxers you cant compare the two


yes i can cliff field was a pro boxer much smaller than lenny mclean and cliff fields knocked lenny out in one round....johnny waldron was a pro light heavy weight boxer he knocked lenny out twice both in the first round.....


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## keir27

jimmy79 said:


> yes i can cliff field was a pro boxer much smaller than lenny mclean and cliff fields knocked lenny out in one round....johnny waldron was a pro light heavy weight boxer he knocked lenny out twice both in the first round.....


exactly lenny wasnt a pro boxer, just a so called hard man

listen streetfighting is a tottally different to boxing in a ring u know this already

lenny thought he could box but he couldnt.... however he could handle himself very nicely outside the ring


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## jimmy79

i know that but he challenged ali to a fight, what do you think would have happend to him? the only fight records that exist for lenny of that people remember all took place in a ring with gloves....unlicensed fighting. legend has it that bartley gorman challenged mclean to a bare knuckle fight, it never happend


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## Syko

dan-cov-boxer said:


> Listen to him, what a stupid little ****.


If your just gonna post stuff like this then why bother :confused1:


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## micreed

Originally Posted by micreed

lol well said ..but now you have ****ed off the nap brigade innit...

Your posts confuse me

See this >>> <<<

Use it

or what...lol


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## hamsternuts

dan-cov-boxer said:


> Listen to him, what a stupid little ****.


alright alright we get the message, you don't like him

jeez did he bum your dad or something?


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## goonerton

keir27 said:


> Frankie Frasier = SMS (small man syndrome)


LOL...According to John McVicar`s book, if someone owed "mad Frank" money or he had a 'beef' with them , him and his accomplices would kidnap them, take them back to Frankie`s house stopping on the way to get a bottle of tomato ketchup. Apparently they would then be tortured and forced to eat their own [email protected], BUT... he always allowed them to use as much of the ketchup as they liked to help it get it down...See, all heart he was really!


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## Syko

micreed said:


> or what...lol


 :ban:

:lol:


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## Guest

Syko said:


> If your just gonna post stuff like this then why bother :confused1:


Why not? The video proves how much crap the guy talks. Just listen to him ''I knocked him out, ripped anothers eyes out then shagged his mum, dropkicked the next guy and made him cry. Another runs at me so I pull a chainsaw out from my back pocket, ripped his teeth out, put an axe through his eyelash, blah blah blah''

Immature, bullsh1tting little midget that can't answer a simple question without making idle threats.


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## benicillin

Would love to be able to find out the genuine truth about guys like this. Find it highly annoying when theres just rumours flying about the place and the 'my dads cousins uncles brothers sisters second cousins best mate knew him' type stories.


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## micreed

syko really man lighten up ...a ban for not quoteing ...lol really it would take a idiot not to know whos post i was responding to as it was right above mine...lol a ban ya gotta laugh


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## Syko

micreed said:


> syko really man lighten up ...a ban for not quoteing ...lol really it would take a idiot not to know whos post i was responding to as it was right above mine...lol a ban ya gotta laugh


I was joking mate, hense the :lol:

Why not hit the quote button though?

Puts the post your responding to in a neat little box as above :thumbup1:


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## jimmy79

benicillin said:


> Would love to be able to find out the genuine truth about guys like this. Find it highly annoying when theres just rumours flying about the place and the 'my dads cousins uncles brothers sisters second cousins best mate knew him' type stories.


i herd that the only reason that "mad" frank was always locked in solitary was because when the kray gang were all locked up they were trying to bash him up......so he made sure he was locked away out of reach....


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## micreed

im lazy ...im a pc idiot ..also my speelings atrichious and have i said im lazy


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## benicillin

or he was trying to protect his a r s e lol


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## jimmy79

micreed said:


> im lazy ...im a pc idiot ..also my speelings atrichious and have i said im lazy


me? sorry about the spelling


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## micreed

on serouis note remember these guys are selling a story ...of course they will stretch truth a LOT...if u beleive these self confessed hard men so be it...but really any top ranked pro fighter would destroy them...fight ali...lol thats so funny


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## goonerton

jimmy79 said:


> i herd that the only reason that "mad" frank was always locked in solitary was because when the kray gang were all locked up they were trying to bash him up......so he made sure he was locked away out of reach....


I doubt thats true. I`ve read loads of books about all of these characters , McVicar`s is a good one he spent a lot of time inside with Fraser and the Richardsons. I think it is highly unlikely that known Kray associates and Richardson associates would have ever been allowed by the prison authorities to even be in the same prison together.


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## Milky

I may be in a minorty in this opnion but l think genuine "hard" men dont need to brag and boast how hard they are.

I also know one or two "hard" men who wouldnt think twice about knocking a woman out cold in a pub. I have made my position pretty clear on this in the past, if they deserve it they get a slap HOWEVER to knock one out cold is totally out of order..


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## Greyphantom

gemilky69 said:


> I may be in a minorty in this opnion but l think genuine "hard" men dont need to brag and boast how hard they are.
> 
> I also know one or two "hard" men who wouldnt think twice about knocking a woman out cold in a pub. I have made my position pretty clear on this in the past, if they deserve it they get a slap HOWEVER to knock one out cold is totally out of order..


Nope I agree completely mate... teh interweb has soooo many very very hard men... they are so hard the should be penises...

one of the hardest guys I knew was also one of the nicest and quietest but there is no way I would ever say or do anything to warrant his attention... little guy but physically hard as well...


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## Guest

gemilky69 said:


> *I may be in a minorty in this opnion but l think genuine "hard" men dont need to brag and boast how hard they are.*
> 
> I also know one or two "hard" men who wouldnt think twice about knocking a woman out cold in a pub. I have made my position pretty clear on this in the past, if they deserve it they get a slap HOWEVER to knock one out cold is totally out of order..


100% agree.

i read kate krays 'hardest men' and thought why would you be in a book. any fvcker can wave a baseball bat or golf club around and be hard


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## Smitch

And Steven Seagal would do them all anyway.


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## hamsternuts

Morph could do them all i reckon.


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## Smitch

hamsternuts said:


> Morph could do them all i reckon.


I reckon Chaz could've taken down Morph.


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## cecil_sensation




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## jimmy79

oliver Roberts said:


>


thats the video trhat started the thread! :thumb:

well second!


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## hamsternuts

Smitch said:


> I reckon Chaz could've taken down Morph.


don't talk to me about that cúnt.


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## Dav1

2 of the hardest men in London in the 60's were Bill Stevens and Ken Macnamara, most would not have heard of them, mens men. Stevens was a top judo champ, boxer and one of the worlds strongest men (3rd or 4th man on world to bench 500lb). Krays worshipped him. Freddie Mills was untouched by the so called hard men, face to face anyway. Others mentioned here were bully boys, the man in the title did he not kill an 18 year old epileptic or something. I know numerous people who worked with and knew these 2 celeb hardmen, blown out of all proportion. Roy Shaw never mentioned that an unknown Dagenham man knocked him out cold in a local pub during 2 meetings not good for the old image is it. I'll get his name when I can ask someone, Brian something well known to some of the older Dagenhamites.


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## round 2

not a nice bloke.Used to work with people that knew him and they say he was a bully.


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## Dav1

Being a Bully always tell you something about people. I don't profess to mixing in these circles, I'm as soft as ****e, but of the numerous men I have known or my mum and grandad knew (Grandad was a top boxer in the 20's and trainer at Jack Solomons gym) all were decent people with nothing to prove, i.e. Randolph Turpin, Freddie Mills etc (Grandad aquantances), me numerous top London Hardmen from 60's you would not have heard of and of course Bill Stevens who would have eaten Mclean.


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## Britbb

Mclean vs foreman?

Mclean vs tyson?


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## Guest

Britbb said:


> Mclean vs foreman?
> 
> Mclean vs tyson?


bruce lee would have one inch punched the lot of them:thumbup1:

although mclean acted in a film and actually had proper fights so he is harder than lee


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## Britbb

1russ100 said:


> bruce lee would have one inch punched the lot of them:thumbup1:
> 
> although mclean acted in a film and actually had proper fights so he is harder than lee


Mclean vs lee?


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## Guest

mclean. :thumbup1:

seeeing as lee never had a competative fight in his life that anyone knows about it would be foolish to think otherwise.

jackie chan-different ball game


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## jimmy79

legendary fighter Cliff Fields has just passed away. Cliff was ABA champ, Southern Area Professional Heavyweight Champ, and the man many called the real Guvnor, after he twice Knocked out Lenny Mclean in unlicened fights.


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## JKDRob

Gsedge1 said:


> Lenny McLeans book is ****ing brilliant, the only book I've read more than once!


X2


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## jimmy79

JKDRob said:


> X2


alot of "story" books are a good read!


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## Guest

dave courntneys books are a funny read but only a fool would think any more than a small % of its real


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## D92

almost every book in that genre is plastered with bullshiit.


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## nobbysnuts123

i cant stand dave courtney fcking hell i wish he was dead


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## Musashi

nobbysnuts123 said:


> i cant stand dave courtney fcking hell i wish he was dead


Jesus that's a bit strong mate, has he done you a personal wrong or something? :confused1:


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## keir27

nobbysnuts123 said:


> i cant stand dave courtney fcking hell i wish he was dead


bit of rage ther then :lol:


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## Guest

funniest book i read was kate krays hard bastards. what a joke

that woman really does my head in, chats so much crap


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## nfc90210

McClean was by a lot of accounts a bit of a ****, and he embellished his "legit" fighting record a bit. For instance, as far as I recall, he never mentioned in his book that he twice got sparked by Johnny Waldron in bouts. He was a big tough guy though, and he really did compete in and have some success in unlicensed bouts.

Quite frankly he was a big terrifying ****.











Lenny, kind of indirectly, did have a big effect on boxing in the UK, and to an extent globally as well.

Frank Warren is Lenny's cousin and got his start as a fight promoter by promoting Lenny McClean's unlicensed boxing bouts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/boxing-frank-warren-quarter-of-a-century-of-fighting-his-corner-518679.html



> ...The few quid became a few more when he saw the potential of becoming an unlicensed boxing promoter, arranging fights for his second cousin Lenny McLean, who later loomed large and ferocious in the film Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
> 
> "He was a terrible bully, Lenny. One of the biggest bullies you will ever meet, always intimidating people. I had a couple of scrapes with him myself.
> 
> "He used to say he'd had 3,000 fights, which was crap. He had 15 fights and lost five. Anyway, he came to see me after one of them and said, 'Can you make a rematch?' He was seriously unfit, so I got him a trainer, a guy who'd looked after Chris Finnegan, and made the rematch at the Rainbow, Finsbury Park. Lenny won and that's how it all started."...


Talking of the man who beat McClean twice...

Rumour has it that Johnny Waldren (who would have been 40 odd at the time) beat Julius Francis (who turned pro late) in an unlicensed bout prior to Francis turning pro. Waldren was an ex-pro (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=416&cat=boxer) whose career, I believe, was cut short due to eye issues. Waldren went 9-1 as a pro. His loss was to Dennis Andries (http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=331&cat=boxer) who went on to win the WBC light heavyweight title on three occasions; on one of those times he successfully defended it a few times as well.

While Francis is most famous for getting knocked out by Mike Tyson in two rounds in 2000 he was for some years a good domestic level heavyweight in the UK. He was even British and Commonwealth Champion for a bit. He finished his career with a 23-24 record. That gives a poor reflection of his skills though and is distorted by the fact that he lost his last 14 fights.

In another interesting, or maybe not that interesting, bit of trivia Francis had an MMA fight in 2007. He was out of shape and forty-two at the time and, as his boxing record from 2003 onwards shows, greatly diminished. He lost by submission due to punches in the second round.

Prior to turning pro as a boxer Francis was a kickboxer. I think he had some success in that world as well.


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## daleboy86

dan-cov-boxer said:


> No I probably wouldn't as he'd be what, 80 odd and i'd feel bad. Well put and very true but his record suggests to me he wasn't hard at all. He lost nearly half of his fights and was knocked out cold twice by a fairly poor boxer half his size. I mean this joke artist Lenny Mclean apparently called out Muhammad Ali & Charles Bronson just LOL! Some south end wannabe gangster calling out Ali...Too funny!


For your info Lenny was from East London so was Roy Shaw,although there is no doubt that Fields and Waldron beat McLean it was before he started the steroids and anyway Lenny was never a boxer he was a street fighter.BIG difference people with fistic knowledge would probz beat him in the ring like Waldron and Fields did but mark my word Lenny would have killed Waldron on the street I am not so sure if he would have done in Fields who was a stone cold hardman.

Don't forget Fields is old in some of the pics of him and pics are misleading.

My point is Lenny wrote an autobiography he admitted to losing to Shaw but didn't say anything about Waldron or Fields but he dismisses fighting under queensberry rules as "for fairies" by that I think he means he got beat under they rules but nvr in the street!

Frankie Fraser was only 5ft4 yet was the most feared man in London maybe Britain in the 50s 60s ditto Paul Ferris they were not hard muscle men but hard as in how far they are willing to go!

PS Lenny McccLean admitted to taking on a contract to kill Ferris from Arthur Thompson whom Ferris was at war with after killing his son and Arthur offered Lenny 40k,this was in 1992 so was a ton of dosh,but Lenny said he would do it for free,shows ya what he was willing to do for his mates,although I have heard he was a bully at times.Ferris is still alive due to Arthur and Lenny both dying of natural causes,ironic that 2 of the most dangerous men around died of natural causes.Thompson is a multi murderer double figures no problem!!!!


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## Wheyman

heres another of his famous fights


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## bigchickenlover

Lenny= legend simples!!


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## daleboy86

Yeh that Kate is a fookin idiot talks the most pis% out of every book i have ever read the one she wrote where she said Ronnie confessed to allsorts takes the biscuit!It was very well known RK didn't even swear infront of ladies and he never EVER confessed or apologised for his crimes he said he'd do it all again and he would.

I think she deserves the jail the way she has lied about that man.


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## Huntingground

GeordieSteve said:


> Naturally big. He was an animal. Roy still is huge even at his age. Courtney is a mate of mine


WHat's Dave like, OK or a t1t?


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## barsnack

daleboy86 said:


> For your info Lenny was from East London so was Roy Shaw,although there is no doubt that Fields and Waldron beat McLean it was before he started the steroids and anyway Lenny was never a boxer he was a street fighter.BIG difference people with fistic knowledge would probz beat him in the ring like Waldron and Fields did but mark my word Lenny would have killed Waldron on the street I am not so sure if he would have done in Fields who was a stone cold hardman.
> 
> Don't forget Fields is old in some of the pics of him and pics are misleading.
> 
> My point is Lenny wrote an autobiography he admitted to losing to Shaw but didn't say anything about Waldron or Fields but he dismisses fighting under queensberry rules as "for fairies" by that I think he means he got beat under they rules but nvr in the street!
> 
> Frankie Fraser was only 5ft4 yet was the most feared man in London maybe Britain in the 50s 60s ditto Paul Ferris they were not hard muscle men but hard as in how far they are willing to go!
> 
> PS Lenny McccLean admitted to taking on a contract to kill Ferris from Arthur Thompson whom Ferris was at war with after killing his son and Arthur offered Lenny 40k,this was in 1992 so was a ton of dosh,but Lenny said he would do it for free,*shows ya what he was willing to do for his mates*,although I have heard he was a bully at times.Ferris is still alive due to Arthur and Lenny both dying of natural causes,ironic that 2 of the most dangerous men around died of natural causes.Thompson is a multi murderer double figures no problem!!!!


shows what, he didn't kill ferris


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## daleboy86

Dave Courtney is known as the great pretender enough said about that egghead!

Ferris and Frankie Fraser have both named and shamed him as a grass.


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## daleboy86

Shows ya he was willing to do good for his mates and yes that he didn't kill Ferris I dont think he would have been able to get to him anyway,it took MI5 to get him for the gunrunning


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## daleboy86

Tit and a GRASS known as the great pretender.

Real villains don't go on TV and admit to murders they have not been convicted of,even though Freddie Foreman did he was the exception but atleast he was telling the truth about Frank Mitchell and Ginger Marks,The Pretender says there is alot of holes in the ground around cos of me and BLA BLA BLA.

I know Frank Fraser done TV stuff but he would NEVER EVER discuss anything he hasn't been caught for,for a good reason the crimes remain unsolved.

I think that says it all about Dave Courtney,he also done Ronnie Krays security for his funeral and didn't get paid for it Reg ripped him off thats how he come to be in the public eye but I notice he done nothing to Reg about gtn ripped off or nothing to Frank Fraser or Paul Ferris for calling him a grass.


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## daleboy86

The real reason Frankie was always in solitary is because he was always assaulting screws the home secretary called him the most dangerous man in Britain in the early 60s.

He has done more time in solitary than anyone else ever except Charles Bronson.

I think the best way to judge how tough these guys are is from there contemporaries and Reg Kray said the only person he was ever weary of was Mad Frankie cos he really was mad and afraid of no one that is a fact.Roy Shaw said Frankie Fraser was not a big muscle man and only small but it would be a big mistake to under estimate him cos he would kill you at the drop of a hat,I also understand he is a gentleman.

I know he was small and I suppose someone bigger would maybe beat him in a fight but he would come back with a tool and finish you.

Ofcourse he was really feared most in the 50s and 60s it says alot that The Krays were weary of him cos Ronnie was utterly fearless as was Reg


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## GeordieSteve

Ah Frankie said it so it must be true then eh? People like you are dangerous. It's the same mentality that someone can post 'Such-and-such is a paedo' on Facebook and the next thing you know someone is having their door kicked in. Welcome to the forum btw. At some point you might talk about bodybuilding

Yeah Dave has always been fair to me. Speak as I find he's sound


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## daleboy86

GeordieSteve said:


> Roy beat Lenny as well. Both huge men. The Guvnor was a great book


Roy was only 5ft9 and 16 stone Lenny was 6ft3 and 20stone.

Dave Courtney is a pussy who talks alot of nonsense and really can't fight and is nothing in criminal terms.

In real criminals Britain have produced he doesn't even warrant a mention with the likes of Fred Foreman,Frank Fraser,Paul Ferris,Adams family,Kray twins,Joe Pyle,Arthur Thompson etc


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## daleboy86

No it was said in court he is or rather was a registered police imformant that is well known OK!

And just cos u have met the silly prat doesn't mean he is your mate he is a ponce poncing off his friendship with The krays when in reality he was a toddler when they were active.

Paul Ferris called him a grass publicly and when Dave was told and asked for a reply he said nothing and why???Cos he knew Ferris was the real deal and would bury him if he even said anything remotely bad about him,it was Paul Ferris who first named him the great pretender.

He was named as a grass in the old bailey when he was on a conspiracy charge so YOU should know the FACTS before u lick daves rusty bullet hole!


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## GeordieSteve

daleboy86 said:


> No it was said in court he is or rather was a registered police imformant that is well known OK


Christ do some additional research eh?


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## TwoCanVanDamn

joe.b said:


> proper brawler lol


That guy who nutted him got what he deserved


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## Paisleylad

daleboy86 said:


> No it was said in court he is or rather was a registered police imformant that is well known OK!
> 
> And just cos u have met the silly prat doesn't mean he is your mate he is a ponce poncing off his friendship with The krays when in reality he was a toddler when they were active.
> 
> Paul Ferris called him a grass publicly and when Dave was told and asked for a reply he said nothing and why???Cos he knew Ferris was the real deal and would bury him if he even said anything remotely bad about him,it was Paul Ferris who first named him the great pretender.
> 
> He was named as a grass in the old bailey when he was on a conspiracy charge so YOU should know the FACTS before u lick daves rusty bullet hole!


Paul Ferris calling someone the "great pretender" lol.

Couldnt give him a brass neck with a fkn blowtorch.


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## barsnack

daleboy86 said:


> Shows ya he was willing to do good for his mates and yes that he didn't kill Ferris I dont think he would have been able to get to him anyway,it took MI5 to get him for the gunrunning


it doesn't show he was willing...unless you actually attempt to take a person life, then you haven't tried, words no substance...ready some other ****e stories about mclean, apparently scaring of the IRA in London, which was funny


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## GeordieSteve

daleboy86 said:


> And just cos u have met the silly prat doesn't mean he is your mate


Your right there mate you got me. How about holidaying with him on various occasions over the space of 12 year?


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## daleboy86

Paisleylad said:


> Paul Ferris calling someone the "great pretender" lol.
> 
> Couldnt give him a brass neck with a fkn blowtorch.


Yeah maybe Ferris does have a brassneck but there is absolutely No disputing the fact he was a very feared criminal at the top of crime in Britain in cahoots with the Adams family and Joe Pyle and was under surveillance from MI5 for 2 years.

If Dave was so dangerous why has he never been under such surviellance etc all he has ever done is security for R Krays funeral so Dave was a pretender Ferris DEFO wasn't


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## barsnack

GeordieSteve said:


> Your right there mate you got me. How about holidaying with him on various occasions over the space of 12 year?


I cant imagine he'd be a 'Butlins' type guy


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## GeordieSteve

barsnack said:


> I cant imagine he'd be a 'Butlins' type guy


You'd be surprised!

Ah anyway I'm done with all that side. It's the followers and taking sides that pushed me away to be honest. Ended up falling out with Charlie because of bitchy people doing exactly the same thing as whats going on here. Not worth the grief


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## daleboy86

GeordieSteve said:


> Your right there mate you got me. How about holidaying with him on various occasions over the space of 12 year?[/QUO
> 
> Anyway I don't care if you know him or not the point I am making is he loves the sound of his own voice appearing on Kilroy FFS the man is a joke criminally.TBH he doesn't seem to be a bad bloke but he has nvr been anything in criminal terms.


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## GeordieSteve

Aye valid point... oh here's the Krays on the news btw 




btw what brought you on here? You someone who uses this site but created an anon account in order to comment on this or have you signed up purely to talk about Lenny/Courtney/Krays etc? Just out of interest


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## josephbloggs

daleboy86 said:


> The real reason Frankie was always in solitary is because he was always assaulting screws the home secretary called him the most dangerous man in Britain in the early 60s.
> 
> He has done more time in solitary than anyone else ever except Charles Bronson.
> 
> I think the best way to judge how tough these guys are is from there contemporaries and Reg Kray said the only person he was ever weary of was Mad Frankie cos he really was mad and afraid of no one that is a fact.Roy Shaw said Frankie Fraser was not a big muscle man and only small but it would be a big mistake to under estimate him cos *he would kill you at the drop of a hat,I also understand he is a gentleman.*
> 
> I know he was small and I suppose someone bigger would maybe beat him in a fight but he would come back with a tool and finish you.
> 
> Ofcourse he was really feared most in the 50s and 60s it says alot that The Krays were weary of him cos Ronnie was utterly fearless as was Reg


Yeh because most people that would kill you at the drop at the drop of hat tend to be gentlemen!

I know these charcters are interesting , I've read most of the books myself, but you shouldn't fall for this cr9p that they were really good guys deep down, and only hurt other criminals etc, it's BS, Fraser and most of the others you're talking about ran protection rackets that extorted money from legitimate businesses that were too scared to go the police. They were nothing other than ruthless thugs who would exploit anyone who had anything they wanted and they saw as vulnerable.

I've seen an interview with McVicar who spent time in prison with Fraser, he said Fraser told him that along with his cronies he would drag people he had fallen out with off the street and take them to their house , picking up a bottle of ketchup on the way. Once there he would give them the choice , they could either eat their own sh9t or he would go to work on their face with a blade. Although he would allow to them to have some of the ketchup to help it down......So I suppose that probably was quite a gentlemanly thing to do really. lol


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## daleboy86

barsnack said:


> I cant imagine he'd be a 'Butlins' type guy


He probably works there as a joker lol


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## daleboy86

I have started going to the gym again after a longtime out of the game so was interested in muscle memory etc


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## daleboy86

josephbloggs said:


> Yeh because most people that would kill you at the drop at the drop of hat tend to be gentlemen!
> 
> I know these charcters are interesting , I've read most of the books myself, but you shouldn't fall for this cr9p that they were really good guys deep down, and only hurt other criminals etc, it's BS, Fraser and most of the others you're talking about ran protection rackets that extorted money from legitimate businesses that were too scared to go the police. They were nothing other than ruthless thugs who would exploit anyone who had anything they wanted and they saw as vulnerable.
> 
> I've seen an interview with McVitie who spent time in prison with Fraser, he said Fraser told him that along with his cronies he would drag people he had fallen out with off the street and take them to their house , picking up a bottle of ketchup on the way. Once there he would give them the choice , they could either eat their own sh9t or he would go to work on their face with a blade. Although he would allow to them to have some of the ketchup to help it down......So I suppose that probably was quite a gentlemanly thing to do really. lol


McVitie?Jack McVitie?I know he was in prison with Fraser in the 50s in Exeter but he died in the late 60s at the hands of Reg Kray as is well known,is that who you are talking about?

Can you send me the link plz.

Yeah i know they are ruthless and bad deep down but remember as mucch as they sometimes talk nonsense more nonsense gets spouted about them in the media because they have criminal records and they cannot sue for libel,I mean Fraser nvr pulled teeth out with pliers but thats more or less in the public domain now and accepted as fact.

I suppose they are likeable rogues to an extent but for sure they were wicked also


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## josephbloggs

daleboy86 said:


> McVitie?Jack McVitie?I know he was in prison with Fraser in the 50s in Exeter but he died in the late 60s at the hands of Reg Kray as is well known,is that who you are talking about?
> 
> Can you send me the link plz.
> 
> Yeah i know they are ruthless and bad deep down but remember as mucch as they sometimes talk nonsense more nonsense gets spouted about them in the media because they have criminal records and they cannot sue for libel,I mean Fraser nvr pulled teeth out with pliers but thats more or less in the public domain now and accepted as fact.
> 
> I suppose they are likeable rogues to an extent but for sure they were wicked also


Sorry meant McVicar.


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## barsnack

daleboy86 said:


> I have started going to the gym again *after a longtime out of the game *so was interested in muscle memory etc


what made you give up prostitution?


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## daleboy86

josephbloggs said:


> Sorry meant McVicar.


Can you send me it please,I never come on here to talk about all this but I saw the lies about Courtney and said what I know to be true.

John McVicar is another he was middleclass and had no reason to turn out a criminal and how can you believe that about Fraser making people eat **** with ketchup?

Personally Ferris's books are alot more truthful to my way of thinking than most.

Anyway I am not on here to speak of that,i am 27 I used to do weight training when i was a teenager until I was 21 then stopped.

I was benching 130KG When I was 18 and I weighed 15stone i think cos I worked as a blacksmith that I got so strong early,anyway I have not trained from then and am just out of hospital after an operation I was in for 8 weeks and have been out for 3 months I wanna know which way to go about building up again?

PS I am 18stone now but Obviously salot of that is fat I am 6ft2 so I want back to 15 stone and solid muscle again now that I don't do drugs or that and know I am mortal afterall lol


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## daleboy86

barsnack said:


> what made you give up prostitution?


Your mum gave me gonorrhea so that was a bad experience


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## Lew1s

daleboy86 said:


> Can you send me it please,I never come on here to talk about all this but I saw the lies about Courtney and said what I know to be true.
> 
> John McVicar is another he was middleclass and had no reason to turn out a criminal and how can you believe that about Fraser making people eat **** with ketchup?
> 
> Personally Ferris's books are alot more truthful to my way of thinking than most.
> 
> Anyway I am not on here to speak of that,i am 27 I used to do weight training when i was a teenager until I was 21 then stopped.
> 
> I was benching 130KG When I was 18 and I weighed 15stone i think cos I worked as a blacksmith that I got so strong early,anyway I have not trained from then and am just out of hospital after an operation I was in for 8 weeks and have been out for 3 months I wanna know which way to go about building up again?
> 
> PS I am 18stone now but Obviously salot of that is fat I am 6ft2 so I want back to 15 stone and solid muscle again now that I don't do drugs or that and *know I am mortal afterall lol*


thanks for the reassurance, you had us worried for a minute


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## josephbloggs

daleboy86 said:


> Can you send me it please,I never come on here to talk about all this but I saw the lies about Courtney and said what I know to be true.
> 
> John McVicar is another he was middleclass and had no reason to turn out a criminal and how can you believe that about Fraser making people eat **** with ketchup?
> 
> Personally Ferris's books are alot more truthful to my way of thinking than most.
> 
> Anyway I am not on here to speak of that,i am 27 I used to do weight training when i was a teenager until I was 21 then stopped.
> 
> I was benching 130KG When I was 18 and I weighed 15stone i think cos I worked as a blacksmith that I got so strong early,anyway I have not trained from then and am just out of hospital after an operation I was in for 8 weeks and have been out for 3 months I wanna know which way to go about building up again?
> 
> PS I am 18stone now but Obviously salot of that is fat I am 6ft2 so I want back to 15 stone and solid muscle again now that I don't do drugs or that and know I am mortal afterall lol


Sorry mate , i never saved it , just something i saw. Try googling it sure you'll find something on it.


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## barsnack

daleboy86 said:


> Your mum gave me gonorrhea so that was a bad experience


what does she look like, cause I think you may be lying...ill give you a clue, has she dark hair or ginger?


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## Shady45

barsnack said:


> what does she look like, cause I think you may be lying...ill give you a clue, has she dark hair or ginger?


This could be a trick question. Her head hair is ginger, but the chin hair is dark?

Sly


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## barsnack

Shady45 said:


> This could be a trick question. Her head hair is ginger, but the chin hair is dark?
> 
> Sly


shes waxed everywhere beside her head


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## Mark_08

Syko said:


> He was the Guvnor
> 
> Anyone read his book?


Yeah mate, it is really good.

The guy didn't care about anyone.


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## Shady45

barsnack said:


> shes waxed everywhere beside her head


Ooo keep talking like that for approximately another 3 minutes and I'll have to wipe down my keyboard


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## Gary29

daleboy86 said:


> McVitie?Jack McVitie?I know he was in prison with Fraser in the 50s in Exeter but he died in the late 60s at the hands of Reg Kray as is well known,is that who you are talking about?
> 
> Can you send me the link plz.
> 
> Yeah i know they are ruthless and bad deep down but remember as mucch as they sometimes talk nonsense more nonsense gets spouted about them in the media because they have criminal records and they cannot sue for libel,I mean Fraser nvr pulled teeth out with pliers but thats more or less in the public domain now and accepted as fact.
> 
> I suppose they are likeable rogues to an extent but for sure they were wicked also


That McVitie makes decent biscuits to be fair.


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## Fatboy80

Gary29 said:


> That McVitie makes decent biscuits to be fair.


His motives were probably more for profit.


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## Milky

Who the fu*k resurrected a 3 yr old thread to then see it turn into total bollox and nonsense :lol:

Why people insist on telling others on an internet forum they are somehow in the know baffles me, no one believes it, unless you post pics of you with said " celeb " with UKM on a piece of card you may as well save your breath.

Anyway l am off to the gym, training with my good mate Kimbo Slice tonight, any thing less than 100 % and he is getting his ass whooped by the Milkster :thumbup1:


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## stevieboy100

Mr.GoodKat said:


> Lenny McLeans book is ****ing brilliant, the only book I've read more than once!


try Pretty boy by roy shaw

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pretty-Boy-Roy-Shaw/dp/1857825519


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## GeordieSteve

Milky said:


> Why people insist on telling others on an internet forum they are somehow in the know baffles me, no one believes it, unless you post pics of you with said " celeb " with UKM on a piece of card you may as well save your breath.


I'm named in a few books. Certainly nothing I'm trying to brag about mind. Was a long time back now and kept well out of the way since. I'm calling troll on the other chap mind.


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## Milky

GeordieSteve said:


> I'm named in a few books. Certainly nothing I'm trying to brag about mind. Was a long time back now and kept well out of the way since. I'm calling troll on the other chap mind.


Wasn't aimed at you mate, TBH l think it was aimed at posts early on the thread.


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## GeordieSteve

Milky said:


> Wasn't aimed at you mate, TBH l think it was aimed at posts early on the thread.


Ah spot on mate  Yeah I got suspicious as well so done a bit googling on the username. Unless they are 24ft tall they don't weigh what they say


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## daleboy86

Gary29 said:


> That McVitie makes decent biscuits to be fair.


Yeh and his missus made exceedingly good cakes,what was her name again?I ccan't remember TBH i only know her 2nd name was Kipling...


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## daleboy86

While still on the subject,Frank Warren who was Lenny Mcleans 2nd cousin said Lenny only had 15 unlicensed bouts and lost 5.

I think that would he would know and would probably wanna make him out to be better than he was.But he even said he had scrapes with him himself cos he was such a bully.


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## bigchickenlover

Ive got a picture of me with the Michelin man? I can prove it too... Just look in the mirror and hes staring back at me every time


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## Huntingground

Hard to disagree with Lenny here.


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## Huntingground

I dont what you think of these boys, massive respect from me for stepping into that ring and smashing each other.


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## sprock

he was a tank!


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## vetran

Read loads of these gangster books and their antics,reading about the plantagenents at the min far better read as its all true


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## barsnack

vetran said:


> Read loads of these gangster books and their antics,reading about the plantagenents at the min far better read as its all true


Game of Thrones slightly based on that


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## shane89

Milky said:


> Who the fu*k resurrected a 3 yr old thread to then see it turn into total bollox and nonsense :lol:
> 
> Why people insist on telling others on an internet forum they are somehow in the know baffles me, no one believes it, unless you post pics of you with said " celeb " with UKM on a piece of card you may as well save your breath.
> 
> Anyway l am off to the gym, training with my good mate Kimbo Slice tonight, any thing less than 100 % and he is getting his ass whooped by the Milkster :thumbup1:


how did he get on? bet you ended up giving it only 99.99% and he smashed your a$$ instead lol


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