# sustanon advice needed



## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Hi im on trt been on it for 2 years when i use sustanon 250 i take 1ml every 2 weeks after 3 days of first shot my test levels 27.7nmol/l (10-37)

then after 2 weeks just before my next shot test levels are 11.8nmol/l (10-37) so its higher after 3 days then dropd down at the end of the second week .

What im thinking of doing is instead of taking the full 1ml split the dose into 2 so take 0.5m one week and the otye 0.5ml yhe second week so just take 0.5ml every week instead of 1ml every 2 weeks im considering doing this as to get a more steady test level , Do tou think this would work what do you think my test levels would look like ?


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

Are you on doctor prescribed TRT?

If so, this doctor clearly does not have any understanding of esters and half-lives. Is he a GP or an endocrinologist?

ONE jab of sustanon every TWO weeks is setting you up for fluctuations in your test levels. Sustanon I believe contains the prop ester right? I think it has prop, enanthate/cyp and undecanoate. Your injection frequency will create too many peaks and troughs in your test levels, prop has a half-life of ~3 days, judging by that prop has to be injected every 2 days not every 2 weeks.

If you want to inject every 2 weeks you will need the Undecanoate ester and even for that I would suggest 1 injection a week not every 2 weeks. Maintenance of steady blood levels is a MUST to avoid any sides.

SB


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

Was reliably informed that sus gives most stable levels injected every 10 days. Not much use if dosing 250mg/ week pharma on TRT. The amount of prop is tiny and makes little difference, minor peaks aren't a worry really, it's troughs you want to avoid, which e10d avoids.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Are you on doctor prescribed TRT?
> 
> If so, this doctor clearly does not have any understanding of esters and half-lives. Is he a GP or an endocrinologist?
> 
> ...


yes its doctor prescibed trt im under an endocrinologist i can get as much sustanon as i wamt i dont want to be higher than normal range just want a steady test level so what do you suggest i do because i can self medicate ?


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

Sust gives more stable levels every 10 days, do you have bloods to prove this?

After 4 days of the injection once the prop ester has dissipated, and the enanthate ester is still on its way into the blood and the undecanoate is in the horizon somewhere what test will he have left? You MUST go by the half-life of the SHORTEST ester when injecting any sort of androgen, and in sustanon it is prop.

Through my years of endocrine study I have NEVER come across sustanon injections every TWO weeks. I have seen undecanoate every two weeks yes.

If injecting EOD is a pain in the ass (no pun intended) then sustanon should not be used and should be switched to a longer ester if the TRT is indeed doctor prescribed. I am sure the Doc will not have any problems with this if he knows about esters and half-lives.

I would never prescribe a patient 1 injection of sustanon every two weeks.

SB


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

big vin said:


> yes its doctor prescibed trt im under an endocrinologist i can get as much sustanon as i wamt i dont want to be higher than normal range just want a steady test level so what do you suggest i do because i can self medicate ?


If you want a steady test level you have to inject the sust EOD like I stated above. You can keep your overall dose the same just divide the doses up into EOD injects. Injecting through a slin pin EOD is really not that bad, especially with the low volume you will be using.

Are you keeping oestrogen in range also? Has this been checked alongside your LH and FSH levels? If you could post your bloods along with ranges I would be happy to take a look. Any hCG at maintenance dose to keep testicular function?

SB


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Sust gives more stable levels every 10 days, do you have bloods to prove this?
> 
> After 4 days of the injection once the prop ester has dissipated, and the enanthate ester is still on its way into the blood and the undecanoate is in the horizon somewhere what test will he have left? You MUST go by the half-life of the SHORTEST ester when injecting any sort of androgen, and in sustanon it is prop.
> 
> ...


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> If you want a steady test level you have to inject the sust EOD like I stated above. You can keep your overall dose the same just divide the doses up into EOD injects. Injecting through a slin pin EOD is really not that bad, especially with the low volume you will be using.
> 
> Are you keeping oestrogen in range also? Has this been checked alongside your LH and FSH levels? If you could post your bloods along with ranges I would be happy to take a look. Any hCG at maintenance dose to keep testicular function?
> 
> ...


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

In regards to the proof I was referring to BillC, I was asking if he has proof that 1 injection every 2 weeks is optimal to maintain steady blood levels. I wasnt taking a crack at him, its just easier to work with hard documented evidence. Evidently one injection every two weeks is not working as seen from your bloods.

Big vin, Whats the composition of your sust?

SB


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Sust gives more stable levels every 10 days, do you have bloods to prove this?
> 
> After 4 days of the injection once the prop ester has dissipated, and the enanthate ester is still on its way into the blood and the undecanoate is in the horizon somewhere what test will he have left? You MUST go by the half-life of the SHORTEST ester when injecting any sort of androgen, and in sustanon it is prop.
> 
> ...


He recently switched me to nebido 4ml 1g testestorone undecaonate every 12 weeks but im not happy with it thus wanting to switch back to sustanon


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

Ok looking at your results, firstly your oestrogen is uncontrolled. Its out of range on the 3rd day, you need to get this under control otherwise high-oestrogen related sides will present themselves I can assure you. The test is aromatising and driving up your oestrogen, if you are persistant that you want to maintain an injection frequency similar to the two weeks, try the once a week injection alongside an AI.

Your endo should have known better than to prescribe you test without any oestrogen control.

SB


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> In regards to the proof I was referring to BillC, I was asking if he has proof that 1 injection every 2 weeks is optimal to maintain steady blood levels. I wasnt taking a crack at him, its just easier to work with hard documented evidence. Evidently one injection every two weeks is not working as seen from your bloods.
> 
> Big vin, Whats the composition of your sust?
> 
> ...


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Ok looking at your results, firstly your oestrogen is uncontrolled. Its out of range on the 3rd day, you need to get this under control otherwise high-oestrogen related sides will present themselves I can assure you. The test is aromatising and driving up your oestrogen, if you are persistant that you want to maintain an injection frequency similar to the two weeks, try the once a week injection alongside an AI.
> 
> Your endo should have known better than to prescribe you test without any oestrogen control.
> 
> ...


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

I dont want to confuse you but 5 weeks ago my endo switched me to nebido because there was a manufacturing and supply problem with sustanon here are my results with the nebido which im currently on

Started nebido just over a month ago 4ml 1g of test undecaonate , 10 days after first shot bloods look like this

TEST 49 (10-37)

SHGBG 22 (11-71)

ESTROGEN 260 (22-162)

exactly four weeks after first shot blood look like this

TEST 12.8 (10-37)

SHBG 25 (11-71)

ESTROGEN 66 (22-162)

im due a booster shot in 2 weeks thats 6 weeks after first shot then another in 12 weeks time


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

ESTROGEN 260 (22-162)

I dont know how your endo can look at this and say your oestrogen is in range.

SHBG is not really relevant if you dont have a figure for free test but I dont think thats the problem anyway.

I would use the Nebido but inject 2ml every 2 weeks instead of 4ml every 4 weeks. That will yield much more stable blood levels.

SB


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

By the way 2 years ago i was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

big vin said:


> By the way 2 years ago i was diagnosed with primary hypogonadism


Hence the TRT. I dont know what point you are trying to make here in regards to your injection frequency and oestrogen control.

I have stated everything I would do for a patient in your position, you need to discuss it further with your endo.

SB


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Hence the TRT. I dont know what point you are trying to make here in regards to your injection frequency and oestrogen control.
> 
> I have stated everything I would do for a patient in your position, you need to discuss it further with your endo.
> 
> SB


My endo is ignorant i want to switch back to sustanon its available again so please can you tell me what dosages and frequencies you reccomend and i can self administrate , thank you


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> ESTROGEN 260 (22-162)
> 
> I dont know how your endo can look at this and say your oestrogen is in range.
> 
> ...


The nebido is prescribed as 4ml then another 4ml after 6 weeks as a booster then every 12 weeks so my endo is not going to give me enough nebido to inject 2ml every 2 weeks


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> If you want a steady test level you have to inject the sust EOD like I stated above. You can keep your overall dose the same just divide the doses up into EOD injects. Injecting through a slin pin EOD is really not that bad, especially with the low volume you will be using.
> 
> Are you keeping oestrogen in range also? Has this been checked alongside your LH and FSH levels? If you could post your bloods along with ranges I would be happy to take a look. Any hCG at maintenance dose to keep testicular function?
> 
> SB


so you sayin keep the same dosage but inject every other day that would mean dividing my 1ml fortnightly dose into 7 equal amounts to inject every other day so 1ml divided by 7 is 0.142 ml , how could i put that into a syringe and inject ? its like only a few drops


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

any advice ?


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## anonymous33 (Apr 7, 2012)

Okay, I just became a member cause I read this threat while searching information about the exact same subject.So it's really a coincidence.My native language is not english btw.

Unfortunately I can't PM you, I guess it has to be approved so I'll tel you what the advise I was given by very experienced guys at the http://www.tc-cancer.com/forum/ which is a forum for men who -like you and me- don't produce testosterone anymore.

This is their advise regarding Sustanon:

" Inject once a week at half the normal dose.I think that would provide you with the best chance of finding a suitable regime to get you back to normal levels without the peaks and throughs caused by the standard two week injection interval".

"If you want to try injections, it is better to halve the dose and double the frequency to reduse the potential for overdose referred to above"

Okay, from what I've read those guys will inject Sustanon weekly in stead of every 2 weeks but some inject themselves every 10 days.So it's different for every person.That does make sense to me.Though I could not yet try Sustanon myself due to the delivery problems (Sustanon will probably be available again week 19, end of april) I am pretty sure one shot every 3 weeks is not a good cycle.Ity seems ridiculous to me but like you wrote: it seems it should work 2-3 weeks according to Organon.

I wanna learn how to inject myself and like you I don't want to experience the swings like you experience from 22nMol to 12 nMol within 2 weeks.

Perhaps it's even better to inject every 4 days, could also be..but the weekly cycle can make you find a suitable regime.From what I've read most men at some point will experiment with the injection-cycle.I don't have figures to show, I hope this will help you somewhat.Take care!

This is what I've been told and perhaps


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Sust gives more stable levels every 10 days, do you have bloods to prove this?
> 
> After 4 days of the injection once the prop ester has dissipated, and the enanthate ester is still on its way into the blood and the undecanoate is in the horizon somewhere what test will he have left? You MUST go by the half-life of the SHORTEST ester when injecting any sort of androgen, and in sustanon it is prop.
> 
> ...


wtf ! how can you say you have never seen sustanon presribed every 2 weeks , its presribed to thousands of patients on trt by endoconoligists over the world at doses of between 2 and 3 weeks sustanon was made for trt purposes and the manufacturer recommend every 2 to 3 weeks you have no idea what you are talking about .


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Hence the TRT. I dont know what point you are trying to make here in regards to your injection frequency and oestrogen control.
> 
> I have stated everything I would do for a patient in your position, you need to discuss it further with your endo.
> 
> SB


I could have been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism but you would have known that by observing my LH and FSH levels but you clrarly have no understanding although you claim to be an expert.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> ESTROGEN 260 (22-162)
> 
> I dont know how your endo can look at this and say your oestrogen is in range.
> 
> ...


those estrogen levels were after my first dose of nebido obviously estrogen will be elevated as it aromatises and converts to esstrogen there is no way of getting round that if you look at the later blood tests when the test has dropped the estrogen is back in range like my endo said it would do .


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

big vin said:


> wtf ! how can you say you have never seen sustanon presribed every 2 weeks , its presribed to thousands of patients on trt by endoconoligists over the world at doses of between 2 and 3 weeks sustanon was made for trt purposes and the manufacturer recommend every 2 to 3 weeks you have no idea what you are talking about .


Ok thats why you was asking for advice just 2 posts above.

SB


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

big vin said:


> those estrogen levels were after my first dose of nebido obviously estrogen will be elevated as it aromatises and converts to esstrogen there is no way of getting round that if you look at the later blood tests when the test has dropped the estrogen is back in range like my endo said it would do .


What does an AI do?


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## Stuey (Mar 23, 2012)

All I can say Bud, is that I have the same problem, Virimone solved that for me beautifully, I am now on ****ty Testogel, (still, does the job if you take enough), Sust 250, as already said, quite a few times, contains too many esters, two of which IMO, are ****e and the best way that you can deal with this, now that Virimone is no longer available, is appeal to your Doc/Endo's sense of reason (if you are lucky enough to have a Doc with these qualities) and ask for one shot per week!

Good Lucks Mate!

Stuey,


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## Stuey (Mar 23, 2012)

And, having taken the stuff for years, I have to say that, in terms of usage, I agree with Big Vin!


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Ok thats why you was asking for advice just 2 posts above.
> 
> SB


Thats because i thought you knew what you were talking about untill i read your comments you have still not answered my question ....

you sayin keep the same dosage but inject every other day that would mean dividing my 1ml fortnightly dose into 7 equal amounts to inject every other day so 1ml divided by 7 is 0.142 ml , how could i put that into a syringe and inject ? its like only a few drops


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

big vin said:


> Thats because i thought you knew what you were talking about untill i read your comments you have still not answered my question ....
> 
> you sayin keep the same dosage but inject every other day that would mean dividing my 1ml fortnightly dose into 7 equal amounts to inject every other day so 1ml divided by 7 is 0.142 ml , how could i put that into a syringe and inject ? its like only a few drops


Yet you are still asking me. I have no idea what I am talking about.

Use an insulin syringe, I've injected very small quantities without any problems with slin pins.

Mate you can choose to do whatever you want, as they say free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

SB


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## Mjc1 (Aug 29, 2010)

Vin i can see your just after advice here m8, this guy claims to know his stuff but it looks like he's not what he claims to be, to many people giving out duf advice on here


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Yet you are still asking me. I have no idea what I am talking about.
> 
> Use an insulin syringe, I've injected very small quantities without any problems with slin pins.
> 
> ...


no disrespect but sustanon is to be injected intamuscular that be impossible with an insulin syringe im not trying to be nasty but some of your advice does not make sense i.e you say you have never seen a patient given sustanon once every 2 weeks , this dosage is prescribed to tens of thousands of patients all over the world my qualified endo's ,, your comment is bizzare


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

He's claiming Sus should be injected EOD?

Riiight.


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

Mjc1 said:


> Vin i can see your just after advice here m8, this guy claims to know his stuff but it looks like he's not what he claims to be, to many people giving out duf advice on here


Congratulations on a great contribution to this thread.

I will stop posting in this thread, and throw my medicine degree in the bin. Lol.

Cheers.

SB


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## Mjc1 (Aug 29, 2010)

sorry i wasnt trying to insult anyone, but from reading the thread it looks like you start giving vin advice but then decide not to answer his genuine question? if you are experienced in this area and can help then i appoloigse.


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## Singhbuilder (Oct 12, 2010)

big vin said:


> no disrespect but sustanon is to be injected intamuscular that be impossible with an insulin syringe im not trying to be nasty but some of your advice does not make sense i.e you say you have never seen a patient given sustanon once every 2 weeks , this dosage is prescribed to tens of thousands of patients all over the world my qualified endo's ,, your comment is bizzare


I have injected with insulin syringes into delts intramuscularly plenty of times.

Anyway big vin, I hope your problem is resolved. Obviously most people here have no idea what they are talking about and choose to follow 'bro-knowledge'. I hope their advice does not harm your situation, I have tried to help you to the best of my knowledge. No one here can pick my theory apart without hard scientific facts, but anyway hope you feel better mate.

Good luck.

SB


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Dux said:


> He's claiming Sus should be injected EOD?
> 
> Riiight.


no he said he had never seen sustanon presribed to a trt patient every 2 weeks which it is prescibed as this dosage all over the world .


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

So he's saying it should be injected EOD.

The whole point of Sus is how long it takes to disperse into the body, he's talking boll0cks.

The general protocol is to inject every 10 days, try that.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

I was being sincere and genuine as i always have been through the many years on this site


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## Mjc1 (Aug 29, 2010)

check out the trt section on here vin, if you havent already, alot of people self administrating trt, most of their own back.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

How can someone who says he has a medical degree come out with a comment saying he has never seen a patient prescribed sustanon every 2 weeks . Its prescribed by endo's at a dosage of between every 2 to 3 weeks all over the world to tens of thousands of patients all over the world so he obviously living on another planet .


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Singhbuilder said:


> Congratulations on a great contribution to this thread.
> 
> I will stop posting in this thread, and throw my medicine degree in the bin. Lol.
> 
> ...


with due respect a medicine degree does not mean you know anything about trt and thats what i was asking .


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## Mjc1 (Aug 29, 2010)

like i said vin there is alot of people claiming to be something there not or knowing stuff they obvioulsy dont, very annoying when its a serious subject like this, and considering you already tried the correct route for trt i.e through medical supervision and still need help it just goes to show that alot of the doctors over here either havent got a clue or are so anti aas its unbelievable...having said that you must have a descent GP to of put you on trt to start with.


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## anonymous33 (Apr 7, 2012)

About your questions Big Vin, I don't claim to be an expert on this matter but I did read alot about this matter as I have the exact same questions you have.I googled for more information when I noticed this threat yesterday.From what I've read injecting Sustanon 250 once a week at half the normal dose would provide you with the best chance of finding a suitable regime to get you to normal levels without the peaks and throughs caused by the standard two week interval.

It's exactly like you wrote: it's common in Europe for every endo to prescribe Sustanon 250 every 2-3 weeks.

Common knowledge.Every doctor and endocrinologist knows.So 14 to 21 days right...Well, the advises I got is to better half the dose and double the frequency to reduse the potential for overdose and less peaks and throughs.

I've read some men start experimenting with the dosage levels because of the lower levels at the end of the 2-week cycle.Some men inject themselves every week while other men inject every eight to ten days to satisfy their needs.You just have to find your "zone".

So yes, I think this could work for you.As for your second question, I don't know how low or high your test levels will be exactly. I would hope it's stable, not too high, not too low.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

anonymous33 said:


> About your questions Big Vin, I don't claim to be an expert on this matter but I did read alot about this matter as I have the exact same questions you have.I googled for more information when I noticed this threat yesterday.From what I've read injecting Sustanon 250 one a week at half the normal dose would provide you with the best chance of finding a suitable regime to get you to normal levels without the peaks and throughs caused by the standard two week interval.
> 
> It's exactly like you wrote: it's common in Europe for every endo to prescribe Sustanon 250 every 2-3 weeks.Common knowledge.So 14 to 21 days right...Well, the advises I got is to better half the dose and double the frequency to reduse the potential for overdose and less peaks and throughs.
> 
> ...


,


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## anonymous33 (Apr 7, 2012)

"I just want to get the dosage right for me as im going to be on trt indefinitely."

That's exactly what I am aiming at myself, just to find a right dosage and injection interval as I will have to be on trt for the rest of my life as well.

When In read your posts I noticed you seem sincere to me about what you would like to achieve with TRT, so I hope I can help you out a bit.

Regarding the TRT conversion to estrogen issues I read a lot about aromatase inhibitors like anastrozole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastrozole

From what I've read anastrozol can help prevent the conversion to estrogen, not cure it.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

anonymous33 said:


> About your questions Big Vin, I don't claim to be an expert on this matter but I did read alot about this matter as I have the exact same questions you have.I googled for more information when I noticed this threat yesterday.From what I've read injecting Sustanon 250 once a week at half the normal dose would provide you with the best chance of finding a suitable regime to get you to normal levels without the peaks and throughs caused by the standard two week interval.
> 
> It's exactly like you wrote: it's common in Europe for every endo to prescribe Sustanon 250 every 2-3 weeks.
> 
> ...


Im going to suggest this to my endo and show him what my blood results are like when i do the 1ml every 2 weeks , i have posted the results that show my levels after day 3 and day 14 . I have been on the sustanon 1ml every 2 weeks for 12 months now im happy with my body as i have made strength and muscle gains and kept fat down , im just not happy with the red face i get this is def from the high estrogen as i experimented with missing a few injections then had blood test and test and estrogen dropped and my red face subsided . I just want to get the dosage right for me as im going to be on trt indefinitely.


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## anonymous33 (Apr 7, 2012)

I can imagine you want to get the dosage right.For the testosterone to estrogen conversion you could use a estrogen inhabitor (anastrozole) like Arimidex.That seems to work from what I know.

EDIT: I have a question and wanted to PM you to give some further advise but it seems I can't PM..?


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## iron-train (Sep 4, 2010)

LOL no way to control Test aromatisation? someone clearly doesnt know about arimidex or letro, sorry to be a dick but im shocked at most of you lot suggesting injecting sust every two weeks, its absolute ****e. I for one went to my Endo after i got a severe acne breakout following a sust/deca cycle where i was injecting twice a week, he straight away pointed this out and said there is no way that blood levels are going to be stable due to the prop ester, EOD was suggested and since then i feel better on cycle, plus minimal or little sides are being experienced as of right now.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

iron-train said:


> LOL no way to control Test aromatisation? someone clearly doesnt know about arimidex or letro, sorry to be a dick but im shocked at most of you lot suggesting injecting sust every two weeks, its absolute ****e. I for one went to my Endo after i got a severe acne breakout following a sust/deca cycle where i was injecting twice a week, he straight away pointed this out and said there is no way that blood levels are going to be stable due to the prop ester, EOD was suggested and since then i feel better on cycle, plus minimal or little sides are being experienced as of right now.


Im not talking about a cycle where testosterone levels would be elevated im talking about trt dosages as im going to be on trt for life . I just want my levels in normal range and stable , what dosage are you suggesting me taking ? every other day as 1ml every other day my test levels would be through the roof which i dont want , and no endo is going to prescibe every other day injections as when on trt it has to be injected by a nurse or doctor there is no way they be having you going into the doctors every other day for injections .


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## Matty-boy (Jan 9, 2012)

big vin said:


> Im not talking about a cycle where testosterone levels would be elevated im talking about trt dosages as im going to be on trt for life . I just want my levels in normal range and stable , what dosage are you suggesting me taking ? every other day as 1ml every other day my test levels would be through the roof which i dont want , and no endo is going to prescibe every other day injections as when on trt it has to be injected by a nurse or doctor there is no way they be having you going into the doctors every other day for injections .


Hi Vin, you've probably said somewhere on this thread, but, are you self administering? If so how about trying 2 injections per week to give you a dose of about 150mg per week and see how that goes?


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Matty-boy said:


> Hi Vin, you've probably said somewhere on this thread, but, are you self administering? If so how about trying 2 injections per week to give you a dose of about 150mg per week and see how that goes?[/QUO
> 
> yes the endo has prescribed me 1ml sus 250 every 2 weeks it used to be every three weeks but my blood levels were dropping at the end of third weeks so he has put me on every two weeks, yes i do inject myself as i cant be bothered going docs every 2 weeks im just wanting to find the right dosage and interval , usually injecting evey 2 weeks my test levels on 3rd day of injection is 27.7nmol/l (11-37) then on 14th day just before my next injection its 11.8 (nmol/l) (11-37) .


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## Matty-boy (Jan 9, 2012)

big vin said:


> Sounds like you've got the ideal opportunity to experiment (in a good way) with your dosing.
> 
> How do you feel the difference in yourself is between a reading of 27 and one of 11?
> 
> I'm about to start self administration of TT400, 100mg twice a week with a sub-q injection. All my bloods have come back at about 11 and generally feel very tired


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Singhbuilder said:


> Sust gives more stable levels every 10 days, do you have bloods to prove this?
> 
> After 4 days of the injection once the prop ester has dissipated, and the enanthate ester is still on its way into the blood and the undecanoate is in the horizon somewhere what test will he have left? You MUST go by the half-life of the SHORTEST ester when injecting any sort of androgen, and in sustanon it is prop.
> 
> ...


I see we have yet another valuable member here! :thumb:


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)




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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)




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## anonymous33 (Apr 7, 2012)




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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)




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## Brutal1 (Jan 25, 2011)

I think if you went with test e 250mg, Between every 7-10 days it would give you more stable test levels, I believe test e is also prescribed by Endo's but not sure how they decide which ester they use in each case???

For future reference these are the esters found in sust 250 

30 mg testosterone propionate

60 mg testosterone phenylpropionate

60 mg testosterone isocaproate

100 mg testosterone decanoate


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Brutal1 said:


> I think if you went with test e 250mg, Between every 7-10 days it would give you more stable test levels, I believe test e is also prescribed by Endo's but not sure how they decide which ester they use in each case???
> 
> For future reference these are the esters found in sust 250
> 
> ...


i have never asked my endo abour test e , he said i could have sustanon , nebido , patches or gels he never offered me test e , do they make it for trt ?


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## skaman007 (Oct 10, 2008)




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## rakatak (Jan 10, 2005)

Dux said:


> So he's saying it should be injected EOD.
> 
> The whole point of Sus is how long it takes to disperse into the body, he's talking boll0cks.
> 
> The general protocol is to inject every 10 days, try that.


Just doin abit of reseachin and was reading up on some posts here and thought the info i have, from a very reliable and experienced forum, might be useful and back SB's version. Alter the dosage lower if need be.Take a look. WUT?

The quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.

By the middle of week 1, your there, except for a few milligrams.

On a 3cc case, each hash mark equals 25mgs of sust

So to shoot

200mgs would be 8 hash marks or a little over 3/4 of a ml

150mgs would be 6 hash marks or a little over 1/2 of a ml

100mgs would be 4 hash marks or a little under 1/2 of a ml

Also to do this you will need a sterile 40 or 50 ml empty vial to switch all the sust amps into.

days.. amount taken....... amount in the blood stream

1 ..............200mgs ................190mgs

2 ..............200 .......................351

3 ..............200 .......................487

4 ..............150 .......................555

5 ..............150 .......................612

6 ..............100 .......................613

7 ..............100 .......................614

Week 2

8 ..............100 .......................615

9 ..............100 .......................616

10.............100 .......................616

11.............100 .......................617

12.............100 .......................617

13.............100 .......................617

14.............100 .......................618

Week 3

15............100 .......................618

16............100 .......................618

17............100 .......................618

18............100 .......................618

19............100 .......................618

20............100 .......................619

21............100 .......................619

Week 4

22............100 .......................619

23............100 .......................619

24............100 .......................619

25............100 .......................619

26............100 .......................619

27............100 .......................619

28............100 .......................619

Week 5

29...,........100 .......................619

30............100 .......................619

31............100 .......................619

32............100 .......................619

33............100 .......................619

34............100 .......................619

35............100 .......................619

Week 6

36............100 .......................619

37............100 .......................619

38............100 .......................619

39............100 .......................619

40............100 .......................619

41............100 .......................619

42............100 .......................619

Week 7

43............100 .......................619

44............100 .......................619

45............100 .......................619

46............100 .......................619

47............100 .......................619

48............100 .......................619

49............100 .......................619

Week 8

50............100 .......................619

51............100 .......................619

52............100 .......................619

53............100 .......................619

54............100 .......................619

55............100 .......................619

56............100 .......................619

Also you can see by the numbers...

Your shooting 700mgs a week, with the exception of the 1st week,

That your only really doing 619mgs.

Question : So we all have heard that more even T levels (ED injections) means less side effects, right? Why is that? Can someone briefly expand on this idea? What are some other reasons for keeping our T levels as even as possible? Looking for input here to put a reason behind the technique...

Answer: Ok lets see if we can put this into perspective... I've asked some of who I feel are the most knowledgeable guys on these boards about this to see if they agree and yes, so far everyone seems to be on the same page

Many, guys say that dbol is many times more effective when taken throughout the day, Bill Roberts included.

There seem to be less sides and more gains as opposed to just taking it 1 or 2 times daily....

The only difference between taking it 1 to 2 times a day and throughout the day is the stability in the blood .

The higher injection frequency = stable blood levels = better gains and or less sides is simply an extension of this analogy.

There's no doubt that people gain from injecting sustanon 1x/week... But, at least in theory, it would be better if split up..

The magnitude of the difference in blood levels increases with dose..

So the need to split up the injections increases with the dose and may not be that big of a deal on small cycles.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

rakatak said:


> Just doin abit of reseachin and was reading up on some posts here and thought the info i have, from a very reliable and experienced forum, might be useful and back SB's version. Alter the dosage lower if need be.Take a look. WUT?
> 
> The quickest way to get the sust levels in your blood stream at a constant maximum level is to shoot ed.
> 
> ...


yes but we are talking about doctor prescribed and monitored trt ... there is no way any doctor would allow that much testosterone they prescibe 250 ml every 2 or 3 weeks . its about getting tesosterone levels to natural production what you are recommending is way way over natural production levels


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## jassdhali (Jul 2, 2008)

bin vin,

Just come back onto this board after a few years - had loads of issues as you are doing.

Initially had the same dosage from my doc - managed to get to a hospital endo, after a year of messing about & my moods all over the place I managed to get the endo to prescribe 50mg Testosterone gel.

I rub an equal amount onto my shoulders every morning, my levels are near enough normal but still in the lower ranges. But more importantly no mood swings and levels are pretty stable.

Have a meeting end of March as I seem him every year as a formality, this will be second year on it.

If your serious about getting your levels stable & not making 'gains' I would push your endo into this direction.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Have you got any blood test rsults to show what test estrogen etc is while on the gel all i need do is ask my doctor and hew will give me gel


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## jassdhali (Jul 2, 2008)

I will get results when I see him end of March, didn't make a note of last years.

Its normally done as a trough test, in other words blood test before I apply the gel.

Unfortunately he wont agree to an estrogen check. But I wil be seeing my normal doc he seems to be ok on that score. My estrogen last year was in the mid range, again though didn't make a note of it, sorry.

TBH as my levels were all over the place on sust my endo suggested the gel. I'm sure your endo will be open minded enough to listen to your arguments for trying it


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## Bodylife (Nov 21, 2015)

I'm Italian 51 years old , I'm looking for someone help me to go on trt , as here in Spain is difficult to get someone that know about this things , I'm taking 100ml every two weeks for a year now, no doctor have seen me so far, only an endocrinologist that send me to do a blood test which I'll do in one week time, (I will do it soon, I'm in process), my syringe is 2,5ml and I load it up to 0.5 , so it's not that much, is there any endocrinologist that could help me to in this my decision ? I need advice , please


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## Sebbek (Apr 25, 2013)

Bodylife said:


> I'm Italian 51 years old , I'm looking for someone help me to go on trt , as here in Spain is difficult to get someone that know about this things , I'm taking 100ml every two weeks for a year now, no doctor have seen me so far, only an endocrinologist that send me to do a blood test which I'll do in one week time, (I will do it soon, I'm in process), my syringe is 2,5ml and I load it up to 0.5 , so it's not that much, is there any endocrinologist that could help me to in this my decision ? I need advice , please


What test?

100 ml every 2 weeks?

Where you get that from?


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