# 200mg of Test E for first cycle - is it worth it?



## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

Here are my stats:

Height - 6ft

Weight - 81kg

~11% BF

Lifts:

Deadlift - 185kg

Squat - 155kg

DB press - 50kg x 3

Been lifting properly for 6 months but my body is conditioned from before. My lifts are going up and i'm following the starting strength template (except no bench)

Diet:

cals - 2200 / 2500 on training days

30% Protein

20% fat

50% carbs

I follow a strict eating plan everyday bar one cheat meal so monitor Macros carefully but predict I will need to increase cals to 3000+ on cycle (depending on how it effects my metabolism) and bump protein intake up esp.

My question then is, if I was to run a 10 week Test only cycle, would there be any benefit to starting low at 200 or should I do 400?


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## Theseus (Feb 27, 2014)

Sigma said:


> Here are my stats:
> 
> Height - 6ft
> 
> ...


personally, I'll go for 400-600mg.

if you are using 250mg test E, then 500mg a week.

but again, you can increase it if you prefer to start low and go slow...no problem there either


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## Getting-Lean (Jul 18, 2014)

You'll see gains from 200mg per week there's no doubt about that, but in a gains vs sides comparison you'll get more gains and the same sides from 500mg per week


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## marcusmaximus (Jan 7, 2014)

You will be fine as long as you train & eat well. I do note a lot more people starting on 500mg for a first cycle but 200-250 seems to work for lots too. Is it test E?

I did a 12 week cycle of sust + deca (250sust, 200mg deca) and put on 2 stone, lost 1 stone and have 2 days of PCT left.


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

Sigma said:


> Here are my stats:
> 
> Height - 6ft
> 
> ...


you should go for 400. make it worth your while mate. people cruise on 250.

shame you dont have 250mg/ml stuff though. I made great gains using only 500mg for ages.


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## mattc1991 (Jan 2, 2012)

defiantly worth it, 2 of my buddys only run 250mg pw and they are huge and shredded, no one believes them what so ever as everyone these days seems to think more is better, hard work and dedication is all thats required and if you cant do that, you probably shouldn't take gear in the first place?


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

Nice to see someone start at a low dose, I'm sure @FlunkyTurtle started his dosage low so he'd be a man to ask. I'm running 450mg weekly at the minute but it hasn't kicked in yet. (300mg/ml injecting 1.5ml)


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## KRSOne (Jul 31, 2011)

is there any particular reason people start at such a low dose, when you would get the same sides and more gains if you doubled it? just curious


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

I prefer conservative doses, but even I would say you are better off on 400 than 200.

A study comparing gains to dosage established that up to 600mg per week, gains are proportional to dosage. (Over 600 wasn't tested).

Standard TRT dosage is 100-150pw, so 200 isn't giving you that much extra.

You are going to be shut down anyway, so you may as well get some significant gains out of it.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

marcusmaximus said:


> You will be fine as long as you train & eat well. I do note a lot more people starting on 500mg for a first cycle but 200-250 seems to work for lots too. Is it test E?
> 
> I did a 12 week cycle of sust + deca (250sust, 200mg deca) and put on 2 stone, lost 1 stone and have 2 days of PCT left.


Sounds like youv caught a dose of needtogetbackoncycleasapalitus mate


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## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I prefer conservative doses, but even I would say you are better off on 400 than 200.
> 
> A study comparing gains to dosage established that up to 600mg per week, gains are proportional to dosage. (Over 600 wasn't tested).
> 
> ...


This.

Do 400/500 mg a week op. Might as well make some really good gains on what is still a conservative dose tbh. Nobody takes steroids to make alright gains do they lol


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## marcusmaximus (Jan 7, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> Sounds like youv caught a dose of needtogetbackoncycleasapalitus mate


Haha yeah maybe so. Was my first so thought I'd respond alright - do you think I'll lose any more? The scales aren't changing but not sure what'll happen after PCT.


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## night06 (May 1, 2014)

u can go with 1.5ml e5d for example, depends on your lab which dosage it has per 1 ml (most have 250mg/ml)


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

UkWardy said:


> Nice to see someone start at a low dose, I'm sure @FlunkyTurtle started his dosage low so he'd be a man to ask. I'm running 450mg weekly at the minute but it hasn't kicked in yet. (300mg/ml injecting 1.5ml)


I'm actually running 300mg (cambridge research) which was a bonus!

Personally it's my first cycle and everyone will give you different opinions on results.

I chose to go with a lower dose to start my first cycle as i wanted to see how far i could go with a small dose before chucking in 1ml every 5 seconds.

Most people agree you dont need a massive dose anyway.

I'm nearlly 3 weeks in so should be seeing some results soon so your welcome to hang fire and see what result i get over the next 8 weeks?


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I prefer conservative doses, but even I would say you are better off on 400 than 200.
> 
> A study comparing gains to dosage established that up to 600mg per week, gains are proportional to dosage. (Over 600 wasn't tested).
> 
> ...


I may be completly wrong but i thought the body produced a natural amount of around 50mg per week?

Not sure where i read that


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> I may be completly wrong but i thought the body produced a natural amount of around 50mg per week?
> 
> Not sure where i read that


It's something like that, but you need to remember that test E is only about 70% testosterone (30% ester), and that your weekly shot needs to be enough to still have a useful amount in your blood at the end of the week.

And that's before you start thinking about UGL dosing issues


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## will-uk (Apr 12, 2010)

Pfft.... Slam 750mg EW in  You wont regret it :lol:


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> It's something like that, but you need to remember that test E is only about 70% testosterone (30% ester), and that your weekly shot needs to be enough to still have a useful amount in your blood at the end of the week.
> 
> And that's before you start thinking about UGL dosing issues


Interesting, so running 300mg a week isnt really 6 times your usual dose?


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## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

KRSOne said:


> is there any particular reason people start at such a low dose, when you would get the same sides and more gains if you doubled it? just curious


Well for me it's because I naturally have a slow metabolism and seem to be predisposed to water retention and fat storage. That's why I have to be extra careful with cals and esp keep the GI of carbs low. So with test I assumed starting with 200mg would give me a good benchmark to see the extent to which I experience the sides, as I expect to do more so than most.

It's interesting though folk saying that I can achieve more gains with equal sides at 400mg - wouldn't doubling the dose lead to more aromatization too?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> Interesting, so running 300mg a week isnt really 6 times your usual dose?


No, the longer the ester the less test, due to the weight of the ester.

Per 100mg -

Testosterone Base: 100mg

Testosterone Acetate: 83mg

Testosterone Propionate: 80mg

Testosterone Isocaproate: 72mg

Testosterone Enanthate: 70mg

Testosterone Cypionate: 69mg

Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 66mg

Testosterone Decanoate: 62mg

Testosterone Undecanoate: 61mg


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## graham58 (Apr 7, 2013)

shutting yourself down for 200mg ew cant see the point.got to be at least 500mg or dont bother.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> No, the longer the ester the less test, due to the weight of the ester.
> 
> Per 100mg -
> 
> ...


Nice post mate, genuinely always interested to know more.

So really when you bang in 300mg your actually only putting in 210mg


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Well for me it's because I naturally have a slow metabolism and seem to be predisposed to water retention and fat storage. That's why I have to be extra careful with cals and esp keep the GI of carbs low. So with test I assumed starting with 200mg would give me a good benchmark to see the extent to which I experience the sides, as I expect to do more so than most.
> 
> It's interesting though folk saying that I can achieve more gains with equal sides at 400mg - wouldn't doubling the dose lead to more amortization too?


Think there's different opinions on everything.

my advice would be start simple and work your way up, that's what i'm doing. how are you ever going to know what works for you if you start of with a ridiculous cocktail of drugs?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> Nice post mate, genuinely always interested to know more.
> 
> So really when you bang in 300mg your actually only putting in 210mg


Yeah don't use that as an excuse to increase your dose lol. I only used 250mg test prop on my first cycle last year, its plenty dw.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Yeah don't use that as an excuse to increase your dose lol. I only used 250mg test prop on my first cycle last year, its plenty dw.


Yeah i'm not messing around with anything now lol

Just interesting, Havent really felt anything yet from the test but everyone says week 3-4 is when it starts to hit.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Well for me it's because I naturally have a slow metabolism and seem to be predisposed to water retention and fat storage. That's why I have to be extra careful with cals and esp keep the GI of carbs low. So with test I assumed starting with 200mg would give me a good benchmark to see the extent to which I experience the sides, as I expect to do more so than most.
> 
> It's interesting though folk saying that I can achieve more gains with equal sides at 400mg - wouldn't doubling the dose lead to more aromatization too?


You can debate this for as long as you like, everyone throws 500mg around like its the only dose you can gain on, rubbish. You will gain plenty if diet and training are right on 200-300mg pw. You won't know what sides you are susceptible to until you start running it, its really that simple. Just have everything ready in case you get gyno, dont wait until you get it then get an AI.

Just start and you will see for yourself, no one can tell you how you will respond.


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## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> No, the longer the ester the less test, due to the weight of the ester.
> 
> Per 100mg -
> 
> ...


Cool post.

I can see why some of the really old fashioned users that preferred shorter cycles opted for base or esters closer to base. Someone apparently ran a 4 week cycle and front loaded with Sust only in the first week!


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Cool post.
> 
> I can see why some of the really old fashioned users that preferred shorter cycles opted for esters closer to the base. Someone apparently ran a 4 week cycle and front loaded with Sust only in the first week!


Do you mean test suspension (base)? Sust is a blend of test.


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## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> Think there's different opinions on everything.
> 
> my advice would be start simple and work your way up, that's what i'm doing. how are you ever going to know what works for you if you start of with a ridiculous cocktail of drugs?


Yeah that was my rationale too, mate. Was just curious to know if form personal experiences anyone novice users had experienced substantial differences between 200 and 400. I expected veteran users would probably scoff at the thought of a mere 200, which they are lol.


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## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Do you mean test suspension (base)? Sust is a blend of test.


Yeah that's right mate. But base is the ideal for a lot of them for some reason, probably because they don't stay in the body as long. But Sust is supposed to be good because it kicks in quickly too, if I understood correctly.

Anyhow. I have E, no biggy for 10 week duration I suppose.


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## FlunkyTurtle (Aug 5, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Yeah that was my rationale too, mate. Was just curious to know if form personal experiences anyone novice users had experienced substantial differences between 200 and 400. I expected veteran users would probably scoff at the thought of a mere 200, which they are lol.


End of the day, if you come off and you've kept an extra pound of muscle, it's still more than you had before.

You know where you stand, you know whether you get bad sides and then you can judge going forward.

No rush is my way of thinking, it's not about the end result it's about the journey to get there.

Although if i could take a drug now that would make me massive when i woke up tomorrow would i take it? probably lol


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Well for me it's because I naturally have a slow metabolism and seem to be predisposed to water retention and fat storage. That's why I have to be extra careful with cals and esp keep the GI of carbs low. So with test I assumed starting with 200mg would give me a good benchmark to see the extent to which I experience the sides, as I expect to do more so than most.


If this is your reason then go ahead. Try 200pw for 6 weeks & see how you respond. You can always up the dosage for the second part of your cycle. The worst that can happen is that you don't gain quite as fast as you could have done, but bodybuilding is a long game, and minimising risk is always a good thing.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Yeah that's right mate. But base is the ideal for a lot of them for some reason, probably because they don't stay in the body as long. But Sust is supposed to be good because it kicks in quickly too, if I understood correctly.
> 
> Anyhow. I have E, no biggy for 10 week duration I suppose.


Test suspension is for the more advanced user.

Sustanon is a blend of different esters, so you will feel some of the quicker esters kicking in quickly.

Here is a standard sust breakdown -

Testosterone Propionate: 30mg

Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 60mg

Testosterone Isocaproate: 60mg

Testosterone Decanoate: 100mg

Test E is fine, you will be fine.


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## sneeky_dave (Apr 2, 2013)

Will be interested to see a detailed log of such a low dose.


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## husaberg (May 23, 2013)

my personal opinion is don't waste your time with 200 or 300mg as said before once you realise (if using e say) your only getting 70% of that then if your using ugl likely less why would you want to spend all the money on your food and sups bill on top of the aa's and pct meds then train really hard etc to make minimal gains when for an extra few quid you can run 500 and make big ones, 500 test is not a particularly large amount in fact it's minimal where cycles are concerned and some of the things that have been said so far are off base to say the least. in most gyms up untill recently (with forums becoming more popular and people not wanting to stick thier neck out with advice) people were doing more than 500 of test or sus along with deca as a first cycle sometimes with dbol on top ..starting on 500 does not mean you will need to keep going bigger and bigger every cycle , i only normally use 550/600 still (though am at about 700 this time as only took a month off before jumping on again so hadn't recovered) but my point is why bother with minimal cycles that you don't even know will give you much at all when it's clear a lot have started at 500 and made good gains with minimal sides..

and just because one or two think it's a good idea or don't have the eggs to take a reasonable amount doesn't mean it is a good idea..if your going to do it man up and do it properly


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

marcusmaximus said:


> Haha yeah maybe so. Was my first so thought I'd respond alright - do you think I'll lose any more? The scales aren't changing but not sure what'll happen after PCT.


Just train hard and keep eating mate you'll keep what you keep. It's probably just water that your losing. Use dryer drugs next time and you won't lose as much when you come off


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

FlunkyTurtle said:


> I may be completly wrong but i thought the body produced a natural amount of around 50mg per week?
> 
> Not sure where i read that


That what the Dr told me.Told her I was on 500mg and she said that's a lot lol


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## Super -ingh (Aug 2, 2009)

with Test E be patient, it works from the off but the magic starts happening for me around week 4-5 onwards. even if u stop at week 10 u will still see the gains for a few weeks after.im startin week 5 of 375mg a week of bayer test, and yesterday i felt the strongest so far. patience and consistency is needed on gear, rome was not built in a day


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

Super $ingh said:


> with Test E be patient, it works from the off but the magic starts happening for me around week 4-5 onwards. even if u stop at week 10 u will still see the gains for a few weeks after.im startin week 5 of 375mg a week of bayer test, and yesterday i felt the strongest so far. patience and consistency is needed on gear, rome was not built in a day


Good post! Patience is key, but everyone wants everything - yesterday - with zero effort!

I've done cycles of just 200mg per week or thereabouts, due to being skint at the time.

I always got results I was happy with tbh, but lower end doses have always been the most productive for me and I know how to eat/train to maximise it. I'd reckon most people would be disappointed at that dose though, and should probably consider 4-500mg per week of test alone as their first cycle...


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## Super -ingh (Aug 2, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Good post! Patience is key, but everyone wants everything - yesterday - with zero effort!
> 
> I've done cycles of just 200mg per week or thereabouts, due to being skint at the time.
> 
> I always got results I was happy with tbh, but lower end doses have always been the most productive for me and I know how to eat/train to maximise it. I'd reckon most people would be disappointed at that dose though, and should probably consider 4-500mg per week of test alone as their first cycle...


you're 100% right. i guess thats why most newbs love dbol, no injecting but also the instant water/strength/size gains u get as opposed to the longer esters which take a bit of time.

i seen guys rave about dbol but moan about test not being great, they just expect too much too quick and before u know it they have ramped up the dosage hoping to see something instantly.

i agree that 400mg - 600mg wouold be the best starting for most people, but i guess its all about expectations on your cycle.


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