# Realistic Lowest Bodyfat % All Year Round



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi all,

I was wondering today whats the lowest, most realistic bodyfat % an individual can maintain all year round whilst still looking full, shredded and simultaneously gaining more muscle mass?

I'm quite an avid Twitter user and am following quite a lot of guys who say they stay sub 10% all year round whilst still growing but is this even possible?

I'm following guys such as:


Simeon Panda

Ulisses Jr

Rick Hall

Pham Vu


These guys seem to stay super-shredded and large all year round. The only two variables I can think of regarding this are:


Either they're lying and simply don't show the regular public their off-season pictures.

They are genetically gifted.


From reading their interviews on websites such as SimplyShredded and CutAndJacked, I'm also quite surprised to learn that a lot of these guys don't do cardio and their diets to me appear to be quite minimal in terms of quantity of food (especially carbs).


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Depends what substances they're taking IMO.

Without any substances I'd say 12-14%. Some may stay a tad lower but the gains will be incredibly slow.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

personally I never maintain low bodyfat for long, just cant be bothered with it all just for abs lol

I did however maintain 10%bf for 3 months prior to me starting training for the Para's


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Depends what substances they're taking IMO.
> 
> Without any substances I'd say 12-14%. Some may stay a tad lower but the gains will be incredibly slow.


If the gains will be slow, I imagine a look similar to there's can only then be achieved after years and years of training (I'm thinking 10 years or so).

I've been training for roughly 5 years and use a fair bit of gear. I'm lean but not super shredded like these guys. I also do a lot of cardio as my goal is to achieve a similar look to these lads.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

If you can achieve sub 10% and want sub 10% all year round then be prepared to be on gear year round


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> If you can achieve sub 10% and want sub 10% all year round then be prepared to be on gear year round


I am on gear all year round. I workout 6x per week with 11x cardio sessions. Cycle my Kcals (4300, 5300, 6300) where the carb intake is (320g, 490g, 660g).


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

12%ish I would say


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Contest said:


> I am on gear all year round. I workout 6x per week with 11x cardio sessions. Cycle my Kcals (4300, 5300, 6300) where the carb intake is (320g, 490g, 660g).


Do you blast and cruise?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Mark2021 said:


> Do you blast and cruise?


I do indeed mate.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Contest said:


> I am on gear all year round. I workout 6x per week with 11x cardio sessions. Cycle my Kcals (4300, 5300, 6300) where the carb intake is (320g, 490g, 660g).


And what % you normally at?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> And what % you normally at?


Have never measured my bodyfat % but this is me post-workout...


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Contest said:


> Have never measured my bodyfat % but this is me post-workout...
> 
> View attachment 136738


Looks about 10% :thumb:


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## fil0101 (Feb 27, 2012)

Contest said:


> Have never measured my bodyfat % but this is me post-workout...
> 
> View attachment 136738


Look tight mate, what you use for cruise/blast?


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## Slater8486 (Jul 14, 2010)

There is a lad in my gym who either has amazing genetics or something as his abs are unreal, he has a perfect diet like but I'd say he is at 8/9 all year round. Not on gear either but he is ripped up to sh1t!


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

fil0101 said:


> Look tight mate, what you use for cruise/blast?


Current blast:

1600mg Tren-E + 400mg Test.

Cruise will be just 400mg Test.



Slater8486 said:


> There is a lad in my gym who either has amazing genetics or something as his abs are unreal, he has a perfect diet like but I'd say he is at 8/9 all year round. Not on gear either but he is ripped up to sh1t!


But how big is he though mate? I've seen loads of guys in amazing condition who are incredibly ripped but they lack size which in my eyes isn't the same. They only look good in a vest or topless but if they were to wear a jumper, you wouldn't even be able to tell they work out.


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

those guys use a varierty of peptides, hgh and aas.

whats your blast and cruise like, I bet many of the big guys cruise is the same as your blast

Have a friend in the gym who cruises on 800mg test and blast with 3g + aswell as additional gear, he is sub 10% all year round, even goes out on some weekend and sniffs and drinks etc


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Contest said:


> Have never measured my bodyfat % but this is me post-workout...
> 
> View attachment 136738


You're a beast


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

Contest said:


> Current blast:
> 
> 1600mg Tren-E + 400mg Test.
> 
> ...


oh damn, 1.6g tren, do you even sleep lol

look good in your pics, whats your height and weight?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

murphy2010 said:


> You're a beast


Its just a flattering pic mate. I want to get to the size of Ulisses Jr. To me that's a great proportioned physique.


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## murphy2010 (Dec 17, 2010)

Contest said:


> Its just a flattering pic mate. I want to get to the size of Ulisses Jr. To me that's a great proportioned physique.


Tbh u look bigger


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## SwAn1 (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm 14% bf by all accounts and still don't really have abs, takes the ****. Down from 17 stone 2 in January to 14 stone 2 today. POW anyone


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

str4nger said:


> oh damn, 1.6g tren, do you even sleep lol
> 
> look good in your pics, whats your height and weight?


6ft 1" currently sitting at 90kg. I haven't taken measurements in a while but my waist is 28" (I have a very tight waist and narrow hip bones), biceps are 17".



murphy2010 said:


> Tbh u look bigger


Lol trust me I'm not lol. Ulisses is an utter beast.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Contest said:


> 6ft 1" currently sitting at 90kg. I haven't taken measurements in a while but my waist is 28" (I have a very tight waist and narrow hip bones), biceps are 17".
> 
> Lol trust me I'm not lol. Ulisses is an utter beast.


How do you measure your waist? With your gut totally relaxed (i.e. NOT sucking in even slightly) and measured around belly button?


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## Slater8486 (Jul 14, 2010)

Contest said:


> Current blast:
> 
> 1600mg Tren-E + 400mg Test.
> 
> ...


No that is totally true pal, you whack a hoody on him and you wouldn't be able to tell he is ripped up. I'd say he's like 11 stone or something but looks fantastic and has been training most of his life as he was a boxer from an early age. He isn't intrested in mass though like he doesn't want to get up to a 15 stone brute at 5.9/5.10 what ever he is.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> How do you measure your waist? With your gut totally relaxed (i.e. NOT sucking in even slightly) and measured around belly button?


I measured it sucked in, tensed abs mate.

This is the weight-lifting belt I use in a size small...

http://harbingerfitness.com/product/284/

On my heaviest sets when doing deads, I wear the belt on the 6th knotch.

If you click on the size guide, you'll see small is made for people between 23" - 32" lol.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

I kept under 10% for all of the off season and gained 5kg last year... Not on gear all the time either. If you're prepared not to booze it up and be rigid with your diet it's not that hard (IMO)


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

megatron said:


> I kept under 10% for all of the off season and gained 5kg last year... Not on gear all the time either. If you're prepared not to booze it up and be rigid with your diet it's not that hard (IMO)


Is that you in your avi mate?

I don't drink and live a very regimented lifestyle. Diet is super-strict and tend to cheat once every 1-2 months.

Workout 6x per week using PPL methodology and do 11 LISS cardio sessions of which 5 are 1 hour fasted AM sessions.

To sum it up I'm trying to achieve my perfect physique whilst still maintaining a great balance between fitness, aesthetics, muscle size and conditioning.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Yup that's me 

I think you may be overdoing the cardio mate, possibly a bit of metabolic damage. I'd gradually ease off and start carb cycling.


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## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

Contest said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering today whats the lowest, most realistic bodyfat % an individual can maintain all year round whilst still looking full, shredded and simultaneously gaining more muscle mass?
> 
> ...


Rick hall trains at my gym and he looks awesome all year round...constantly shredded.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

megatron said:


> Yup that's me
> 
> I think you may be overdoing the cardio mate, possibly a bit of metabolic damage. I'd gradually ease off and start carb cycling.


You are in awesome shape mate. That's the kind of look I want 

Can you suffer from metabolic damage if eating enough carbs? My carb intake would be considered quite high by most people.

I've always carb-cycled and am currently doing the following...

Low - 320g - 4300Kcal

Med - 490g - 5300Kcal

High - 660g - 6300Kcal


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

HAWKUS said:


> Rick hall trains at my gym and he looks awesome all year round...constantly shredded.


I was actually considering signing up to his "Lets Add Mass" program but I know very little about him and his methodologies.

I don't know anyone who's actually used him either so am a little skeptical.


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## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

Contest said:


> I was actually considering signing up to his "Lets Add Mass" program but I know very little about him and his methodologies.
> 
> I don't know anyone who's actually used him either so am a little skeptical.


Couldnt comment on any of his programs mate,dont know anyone whos used them either....he trains hard though i can say that,he also has some protein discount card buisness,not to sure what its all about,think its been mentioned on here before.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Contest said:


> You are in awesome shape mate. That's the kind of look I want
> 
> Can you suffer from metabolic damage if eating enough carbs? My carb intake would be considered quite high by most people.
> 
> ...


Let's assume that whatever you're doing isn't working (otherwise you would have the body you want) sorry if that comes across patronising, not intended - just to highlight the fact that you need to do something different.

I have been in the situation where you are doing tons of cardio and not shifting any BF, there's nothing wrong in letting go of the cardio (or even just turning it down by half) providing your calories are lowered accordingly. By doing this you let the body adapt to a state where you still have some room to manoeuvre... What else are you going to do? Even more Cardio? Don't think it's workable really.

Once you re-introduce the cardio after a while off, it will then have the desired effect.

Also nutrient timing around cardio is crucial I find.

Right now I do 1hr resistance followed by 30m LIGHT cardio, then between 30m and 45m LIGHT cardio in the evening... But I will be dropping evening cardio in 4 weeks, so that when I cut for the next show I will have something to play with.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

HAWKUS said:


> Couldnt comment on any of his programs mate,dont know anyone whos used them either....he trains hard though i can say that,he also has some protein discount card buisness,not to sure what its all about,think its been mentioned on here before.


Yeh I have him Protein Discount Card myself lol. He makes it seem that adding more muscle mass whilst dropping body fat is actually not a difficult concept but I'm always skeptical. I have him on Twitter as well and he seems to be absolutely destroying carbs with some of his refeeds hitting 1000g - 1500g. Still don't understand how he's maintaining a bodyfat % of 8% all year round like how he states.



megatron said:


> Let's assume that whatever you're doing isn't working (otherwise you would have the body you want) sorry if that comes across patronising, not intended - just to highlight the fact that you need to do something different.
> 
> I have been in the situation where you are doing tons of cardio and not shifting any BF, there's nothing wrong in letting go of the cardio (or even just turning it down by half) providing your calories are lowered accordingly. By doing this you let the body adapt to a state where you still have some room to manoeuvre... What else are you going to do? Even more Cardio? Don't think it's workable really.
> 
> ...


Not patronizing at all mate. Critique is what I need. I'm not a competitor and everything I have done during my 5 years of training is sheerly from trial and error, and my own research.

If you don't mind me asking, how tall are you mate and how much do you weigh on and off season?

Also, how much carbs are you normally getting in on a daily basis?

To b honest I've only recently started high-carbing it. I was always an advocator of low carb diets but I found that even though I was lean, I looked flat as a pancake especially on my arms. I think I'm naturally an ectomorph but refused to believe that thinking that I'd turn fat if I consumed carbs.

Now I feel much stronger during my workouts and can see myself filling out nicely though eating a large amount of carbs does leave me bloated at the end of the night lol.

Appreciate your advice pal


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Contest said:


> Yeh I have him Protein Discount Card myself lol. He makes it seem that adding more muscle mass whilst dropping body fat is actually not a difficult concept but I'm always skeptical. I have him on Twitter as well and he seems to be absolutely destroying carbs with some of his refeeds hitting 1000g - 1500g. Still don't understand how he's maintaining a bodyfat % of 8% all year round like how he states.
> 
> Not patronizing at all mate. Critique is what I need. I'm not a competitor and everything I have done during my 5 years of training is sheerly from trial and error, and my own research.
> 
> ...


Not at all, im 32, 6' and currently 90kg (off season). I won't go higher than 95kg this off season as my classic limit is 90kg. I always have full abs off season or not, personally I think that people like to make excuses "you won't gain unless you get higher BF%" well I did - 5kg lean tissue in less than a year, I was NOT on gear all year round (not for me, I feel it's pointless and risky).

I eat approximately 300/300/60 (right now) and more on weekends, I eat burgers 2-3 nights a week, chips some evenings (made from scratch myself). I have found that I can eat a large excess of calories without storing fat (gear or not) providing they are healthy raw sources of food ("clean" - not that I like this word). It's enough for me to grow most of the time and when I need to lose BF I switch to a more restrictive mode of feeding and gradually up the cardio.

If i'm honest (and this may get some people on their high horse) I think most BBers are full of sh1t and they cheat all the time and drink etc. Then complain about not having abs year round because they "can't gain" like that. I've seen it a few times, what people say is not the same as what they do 

If you're getting fat from eating an excess of oats and chicken breast then you have a rare metabolism or you're eating more than I could ever!


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

megatron said:


> Not at all, im 32, 6' and currently 90kg (off season). I won't go higher than 95kg this off season as my classic limit is 90kg. I always have full abs off season or not, personally I think that people like to make excuses "you won't gain unless you get higher BF%" well I did - 5kg lean tissue in less than a year, I was NOT on gear all year round (not for me, I feel it's pointless and risky).
> 
> I eat approximately 300/300/60 (right now) and more on weekends, I eat burgers 2-3 nights a week, chips some evenings (made from scratch myself). I have found that I can eat a large excess of calories without storing fat (gear or not) providing they are healthy raw sources of food ("clean" - not that I like this word). It's enough for me to grow most of the time and when I need to lose BF I switch to a more restrictive mode of feeding and gradually up the cardio.
> 
> ...


My issue is that my metabolism seems to be like a furnace on steroids lol. I used to weigh 16.5st but I could only hit and maintain that weight by eating pure junk which I simply can't even imagine doing now.

Condition over size any day for me. I've only recently upped my Kcals and carbs so will assess my progress over the coming weeks but hopefully I should be able to make some good gains.

Seeing as there's only a 1" difference in height between me and yourself, maybe 90kg is an ideal weight for me. Like I said before, you look amazing in your pic and I would've thought you were about 100kg.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Thanks man, very kind of you to say 

http://www.magisto.com/video/MlAYMFIbQStqDhZgCzE

As you say you're feeling flat etc. I think you're under-feeding - and tons of cardio, so maybe just drop some cardio and leave macros the same, let your body adjust for a few weeks and see how you feel and look.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

megatron said:


> Not at all, im 32, 6' and currently 90kg (off season). I won't go higher than 95kg this off season as my classic limit is 90kg. I always have full abs off season or not, personally I think that people like to make excuses "you won't gain unless you get higher BF%" well I did - 5kg lean tissue in less than a year, I was NOT on gear all year round (not for me, I feel it's pointless and risky).
> 
> I eat approximately 300/300/60 (right now) and more on weekends, I eat burgers 2-3 nights a week, chips some evenings (made from scratch myself). I have found that I can eat a large excess of calories without storing fat (gear or not) providing they are healthy raw sources of food ("clean" - not that I like this word). It's enough for me to grow most of the time and when I need to lose BF I switch to a more restrictive mode of feeding and gradually up the cardio.
> 
> ...


Do you have a journal or do you share your diet info?


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Do you have a journal or do you share your diet info?


I don't have a journal really dude and I am happy to share info but I find everyone is already an expert so I keep my mouth shut lol.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

megatron said:


> I don't have a journal really dude and I am happy to share info but I find everyone is already an expert so I keep my mouth shut lol.


 :lol:

Do you have a spreadsheet or suchlike that you could post? I ask so I could give it a go when I can start lifting again, probably start tonight if my wrist allows.

Everytime I have dieted, I have ended up ill, whether that is through malnutrition or not I'm unsure. I do drop bodyfat pretty quick though.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

megatron said:


> Thanks man, very kind of you to say
> 
> http://www.magisto.com/video/MlAYMFIbQStqDhZgCzE
> 
> As you say you're feeling flat etc. I think you're under-feeding - and tons of cardio, so maybe just drop some cardio and leave macros the same, let your body adjust for a few weeks and see how you feel and look.


Awesome video mate 

I never thought LISS cardio could have such an impact. I thought as long as my macro-nutrient intake was spot on, I could do as much LISS cardio as I wanted.

I used to HIIT cardio as well but found that way too taxing and it completely messed up my weight training sessions.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I would've thought its pretty easy to stay shredded all year round if you're on gear.. I can maintain a 6 pac for 10 months of the year with relative ease whilst natty, and the only reason for the 2 months out is my love of alcohol in the winter..


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

L11 said:


> I would've thought its pretty easy to stay shredded all year round if you're on gear.. I can maintain a 6 pac for 10 months of the year with relative ease whilst natty, and the only reason for the 2 months out is my love of alcohol in the winter..


I can too but not with the amount of muscle mass that people such as Simeon Panda and Rick Hall have lol.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Contest said:


> I can too but not with the amount of muscle mass that people such as Simeon Panda and Rick Hall have lol.


More steroids?

TBH I think Simeon Panda is photoshop, and in videos they use advanced CGI from Dreamworks

Not jealous.


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## iDare (Jul 4, 2013)

L11 said:


> More steroids?
> 
> TBH I think Simeon Panda is photoshop, and in videos they use advanced CGI from Dreamworks
> 
> Not jealous.


LMAO!

I knew there was no way he could be on gear...superbly explained HAHAH

I mean come on that ripped and muscle bellies that full...naturally?...no other way outside dreamworks and photoshop


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## iDare (Jul 4, 2013)

But maintaining 8--10% bf not impossible year round...have friends DEFINITELY not on juice able to do so...due to job and IF they maintain a very lean physique year round...


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

megatron said:


> Not at all, im 32, 6' and currently 90kg (off season). I won't go higher than 95kg this off season as my classic limit is 90kg. I always have full abs off season or not, personally I think that people like to make excuses "you won't gain unless you get higher BF%" well I did - 5kg lean tissue in less than a year, I was NOT on gear all year round (not for me, I feel it's pointless and risky).
> 
> I eat approximately 300/300/60 (right now) and more on weekends, I eat burgers 2-3 nights a week, chips some evenings (made from scratch myself). I have found that I can eat a large excess of calories without storing fat (gear or not) providing they are healthy raw sources of food ("clean" - not that I like this word). It's enough for me to grow most of the time and when I need to lose BF I switch to a more restrictive mode of feeding and gradually up the cardio.
> 
> ...


How can you not get fat if eating a large excess of calories?? Do you do timed carbs/carb-backloading? I like the sound of what you say but it sounds almost too good to be true, unless you have an amazing metabolism.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> How can you not get fat if eating a large excess of calories?? Do you do timed carbs/carb-backloading? I like the sound of what you say but it sounds almost too good to be true, unless you have an amazing metabolism.


I don't think he is eating a large excess, 300/300/60 is just under 3000kcals which would be close/just over maintenance calories


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## Pkant2002 (Nov 4, 2011)

Always think intermittent fasting is great for maintaining a low body fat. Sure you have heard it all before but www.leangains.com posts some good stuff about IF.


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## Dave_b (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm intrigued by IF, could missing breakfast and having the last meal of the day around 8pm be classed as IF? so an eating window from say 11am to 8pm?


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## DoubleXL- (Feb 13, 2012)

About 20%  sweet tooth!


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## ClarkyBoy (Sep 24, 2012)

Personally never go any higher than 15-16% all year round. Have got down to 10-11% a while back but walking round at 100kg as of yesterday and would say I'm about 14%.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Dave_b said:


> I'm intrigued by IF, could missing breakfast and having the last meal of the day around 8pm be classed as IF? so an eating window from say 11am to 8pm?


There's no strict definition, and it kinda depends when you wake up..


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## Dave_b (Jul 7, 2012)

L11 said:


> There's no strict definition, and it kinda depends when you wake up..


would normally have breakfast around 7.15am


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Bull Terrier said:


> How can you not get fat if eating a large excess of calories?? Do you do timed carbs/carb-backloading? I like the sound of what you say but it sounds almost too good to be true, unless you have an amazing metabolism.


Well I will admit I do have a high metabolism but this is due to the way I feed and train etc. It's not just something I was gifted with (OK maybe a little).

I do use backloading if i'm cutting but generally just keep carbs a constant per meal with a little extra PWO. I'm talking from personal experience more than a scientific approach (which isn't really how I normally work) and I honestly find it hard to eat enough "clean" food to get fat - but if you're training twice a day with a high intensity then I don't think you have much to worry about. Fine example is a mate of mine who just had a boxing match 2 weeks back, he trained like a monster - ate nothing like a bodybuilder (kebabs, crisps, chocolate etc.) and he must have gotten down to 5% BF just from his crazy regimen. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had better results from a BB diet in addition but the condition he got in proved it for itself. I think as BBers we get stuck in patterns of behaviour or particular ideas because we are paranoid. It's very hard to break a thought pattern, like when a guy first preps for a show - so vastly different from his regular training and diet he's unsure if it will work. I've been a member here for far too long, started off everything wrong, learned everything the hard way and finally got the body I want... I think i'm rambling now lol. Hope I answered your question.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

BLUE(UK) said:


> :lol:
> 
> Do you have a spreadsheet or suchlike that you could post? I ask so I could give it a go when I can start lifting again, probably start tonight if my wrist allows.
> 
> Everytime I have dieted, I have ended up ill, whether that is through malnutrition or not I'm unsure. I do drop bodyfat pretty quick though.


I'm actually working on putting a calculator on my website - among other things.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

megatron said:


> Well I will admit I do have a high metabolism but this is due to the way I feed and train etc. It's not just something I was gifted with (OK maybe a little).
> 
> I do use backloading if i'm cutting but generally just keep carbs a constant per meal with a little extra PWO. I'm talking from personal experience more than a scientific approach (which isn't really how I normally work) and I honestly find it hard to eat enough "clean" food to get fat - but if you're training twice a day with a high intensity then I don't think you have much to worry about. Fine example is a mate of mine who just had a boxing match 2 weeks back, he trained like a monster - ate nothing like a bodybuilder (kebabs, crisps, chocolate etc.) and he must have gotten down to 5% BF just from his crazy regimen. I'm not saying he wouldn't have had better results from a BB diet in addition but the condition he got in proved it for itself. I think as BBers we get stuck in patterns of behaviour or particular ideas because we are paranoid. It's very hard to break a thought pattern, like when a guy first preps for a show - so vastly different from his regular training and diet he's unsure if it will work. I've been a member here for far too long, started off everything wrong, learned everything the hard way and finally got the body I want... I think i'm rambling now lol. Hope I answered your question.


I just plugged away a few of your numbers and see that from what you said earlier about your food intake (300g protein, 300g carbs, 60g fat) you get a total of 2940 calories, with only 18% from fat. That sounds a bit lower than some of the resident uk-m gurus may recommend, but obviously it works for you so all good. Calories aren't very high either, especially if you say that you have a high metabolism.

Very broadly speaking what are your general training philosophies for staying in great shape year-round, specifically:

1) How many days of weight training per week?

2) Style of training? (i.e. push/pull/legs, Stronglifts, Wendler 5/3/1, Dogcrapp, etc.)

3) How many days of cardio?

4) Type of cardio (i.e. fasted, LISS, HIIT, mixed, etc.)?

Very interested to hear your views.

Cheers.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Like I mentioned before it's only recently I've jacked up my carbs. A few weeks ago I was cycling my carbs between 100g-460g. I was have 3x low days, 2x med days & 2x high days. I think when averaging out the numbers my daily carb-intake was coming to something like 250g-265g.

The minimum amount of calories I was getting in however was 3000Kcal as my protein intake was quite high and max calories were in the region of 5000Kcal. Even at this level my weight remained stable and at some points would even drop.

I think like @megatron, my metabolism is in super-drive but I think this is down to both being gifted & the type of training.

I've met a few bodybuilders who when only a couple of weeks out from comp are still consuming 400g+ of carbs and getting more and more shredded as the days go on. I thought this would've been an impossibility if anyone told me this before meeting them personally.

*Back to the topic though...*

Though I know loads of guys who look amazing on comp day, once its over, they go back to looking fairly average again. I'm still baffled how some of these people are looking huge and shredded all year round. Bare in mind I'm saying shredded her and not lean lol.

This to me doesn't look like its Photoshopped & nor is it a pic taken from, or for a photo-shoot...


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## HelloDumbbell (Sep 5, 2013)

Friend of mine does 15mins jog before and after every workout year around and we measured hem 7.4% 93kg. hes staying like this year around all natty.

Other friend who does not even train was sub 10% with just eating what ever he wants. its silly but hes like 60kg ^^

I personally cant stay in low body fat at all. If I diet down as soon as I step calories to even close to maintenance I start getting roundy.

So what I´m saying this is mostly genetics and how your body is used to be. Diet down and keep it there for a year and I bet it stays down easier but it sure slows down gains.

What comes to guys like Simeon. Hes just not natty and can play with calories while gaining weight.

I know he claims to be natty but have yet to meet a single person who believes it.


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> I was actually considering signing up to his "Lets Add Mass" program but I know very little about him and his methodologies.
> 
> I don't know anyone who's actually used him either so am a little skeptical.


I can help you out with this bud.

rick is pal of mine and I train on and off with him at gym in Newcastle.

Been mates him for years now and yes I can confirm he stays like that year round

Although lately his is trimming down into more muscle model shape and his waist is coming in even more

And as someone said about guys like this training 10 years to get this stage I can say 100% truth that Rick has trained 4 years now and gone from 12 stone guy to 17 stone sub 5% bf in just over 3 and bit years.

His training methods are very intense using a lot of rest pause techniques, drop sets, negatives are a favourite.

Also using a lot of fascia stretching techniques to full stretch muscle

He also is a big eater and packs food away.

His metabolism is super fast but eats very clean a lot of red meat and low GI carbs with greens.

Sunday is a high reefed carb day to set him up for next weeks training

And yes he doesn't touch cardio at all unless was last few weeks precontest.

Lets add mass is great plan I can vouch for it mate 100%

Now genetics he has great genetics and not just him but his mum competes and has just won a show this year also so runs in family

But you will not regret it if u signed up Lets add mass plan I guarantee it.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> I just plugged away a few of your numbers and see that from what you said earlier about your food intake (300g protein, 300g carbs, 60g fat) you get a total of 2940 calories, with only 18% from fat. That sounds a bit lower than some of the resident uk-m gurus may recommend, but obviously it works for you so all good. Calories aren't very high either, especially if you say that you have a high metabolism.
> 
> Very broadly speaking what are your general training philosophies for staying in great shape year-round, specifically:
> 
> ...


I know this question wasn't aimed at me but I'd like to share some info about my diet & training as well to show how much these variables vary from person to person...

1. Workout 6x per week

2. I do PPL 2x per week - The first half of the week I do PPL using the myo-reps principle and the second half of the week I do straight sets.

3. 5x 1 hour morning fasted LISS cardio sessions + 6x 30 minutes post-workout LISS cardio sessions = 11x cardio sessions / 8 hours cardio per week

4. Always LISS on the stationary bike. HIIT severely effects my weight training sessions and leaves me way to fatigued.

*Diet*

Low Carb Days - 520/320/104

Med Carb Days - 560/490/120

High Carb Days - 600/660/136


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

HelloDumbbell said:


> .
> 
> Diet down and keep it there for a year and I bet it stays down easier but it sure slows down gains.
> 
> .


I'll agree with this, my gains are extremely slow atm in regards to actual size. I'm getting stronger every session but the scales aren't moving..


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

HAWKUS said:


> Couldnt comment on any of his programs mate,dont know anyone whos used them either....he trains hard though i can say that,he also has some protein discount card buisness,not to sure what its all about,think its been mentioned on here before.


Alreet but didn't no u were on here.

Ive just signed up like

Just given that lad advice on ricks lets add mass plan

Looks big in ur pic man u need knock the holidays on head now and time get huge again!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

HelloDumbbell said:


> Friend of mine does 15mins jog before and after every workout year around and we measured hem 7.4% 93kg. hes staying like this year around all natty.
> 
> Other friend who does not even train was sub 10% with just eating what ever he wants. its silly but hes like 60kg ^^
> 
> ...


I've never for a second believed that he is natural lol, but is his physique down to amazing genetics, diet and training or abusing substances to another level lol. Like I've said earlier, it's one thing being big and 17st and then cutting down for comp, but its a completely different thing to look like that all year round.



Dazarms said:


> I can help you out with this bud.
> 
> rick is pal of mine and I train on and off with him at gym in Newcastle.
> 
> ...


Cheers for the info mate. I like the fact that Rick is a big eater and an advocator of carbs. It fits in quite nicely with what I'm already doing. Have contacted him through Twitter so will see what he says


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

HelloDumbbell said:


> Friend of mine does 15mins jog before and after every workout year around and we measured hem 7.4% 93kg. hes staying like this year around all natty.
> 
> Other friend who does not even train was sub 10% with just eating what ever he wants. its silly but hes like 60kg ^^
> 
> ...





L11 said:


> I'll agree with this, my gains are extremely slow atm in regards to actual size. I'm getting stronger every session but the scales aren't moving..


I was doing the same thing as you mate and the scales simply refused to budge. In my case it felt as if the gains had literally stopped hence why I've altered my diet now.


----------



## HelloDumbbell (Sep 5, 2013)

Contest said:


> I've never for a second believed that he is natural lol, but is his physique down to amazing genetics, diet and training or abusing substances to another level lol. Like I've said earlier, it's one thing being big and 17st and then cutting down for comp, but its a completely different thing to look like that all year round.


15 years of training.

I´m telling you. Natty. 193cm


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

HelloDumbbell said:


> 15 years of training.
> 
> I´m telling you. Natty. 193cm


I don't know whether your being sarcastic or real mate lol.

I've read somewhere that he weighs more than Arnold did and with a body-fat % as low as his, I find it extremely difficult to believe he is natural.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> I don't know whether your being sarcastic or real mate lol.
> 
> I've read somewhere that he weighs more than Arnold did and with a body-fat % as low as his, I find it extremely difficult to believe he is natural.


i know rick and he doesnt use that much gear, he uses far less in comparison to those on here, GH plays a part though I believe.

his "carb" method is just skiploading with a fancy name to it.

ive used skiploading with success and have grown i think it was 8kg whilst been under 10% in less than a year


----------



## HelloDumbbell (Sep 5, 2013)

I was 91kg with 15% 182cm before I ever touch AAS and that was 5 years of training.

Hes not really massive guy. He just weighs a lot. arms closer to 43cm and massive legs.

What I was trying to say was the incredible low BF. And he seems to stay like that with ease. He has lately been thinking of AAS and wants me to work as hes source so yes I know hes natty 

Training from age of 15 until now 30.

I don´t find it so incredible at all. we got bunch of guys who are good friends of mine. They are bigger than a lot of guys I know juice. You can get big natural but not many does it.

We fins are big boys naturally 

Uses **** ton of supplements tho but not sure if that is natural or not in your books. in mine it is.


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Bull Terrier said:


> I just plugged away a few of your numbers and see that from what you said earlier about your food intake (300g protein, 300g carbs, 60g fat) you get a total of 2940 calories, with only 18% from fat. That sounds a bit lower than some of the resident uk-m gurus may recommend, but obviously it works for you so all good. Calories aren't very high either, especially if you say that you have a high metabolism.
> 
> Very broadly speaking what are your general training philosophies for staying in great shape year-round, specifically:
> 
> ...


Right on, my calories are not that high right now - probably just under maintenance, however I do offset this with (roughly) 4 cheat meals per week. Without going into great detail my hormone profile is not the best right now so I don't want to go crazy with my food or my BF% will go up. It's a fine balancing act between atrophy and fat storage which I personally find best to under-eat every so slightly and every couple of days have a cheat (high cals, fats etc.) - also helps me keep sane.

But bear in mind this is just now, I will increase my carbs 10-15% per week for 6 weeks after the next two (and my test levels are more reasonable). No week is every really the same as the last for me these days.

1) How many days of weight training per week? 6-7 depending how I feel

2) Style of training? (i.e. push/pull/legs, Stronglifts, Wendler 5/3/1, Dogcrapp, etc.) - I do different things all the time really, more into slow, controlled, perfect form than adding more weight - tried many different approaches but I find focussing on one body-part at a time and using a combination of high rep, drop set, rest pause, super/giant, occasional heavy (3-5 reps). I never lift for the numbers, e.g. never do barbell bench press - I find it does very little for my chest but it's great for your ego 

3) How many days of cardio? Every day, possibly one day off per week if i'm run down. I'll keep the cardio when bulking but reduce the duration (personally I want my hear to keep up with my muscles)

4) Type of cardio (i.e. fasted, LISS, HIIT, mixed, etc.)? LISS in most cases, when pre-contest I do fasted and although I did it last season I don't rate HITT for me (lost too much muscle)


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> i know rick and he doesnt use that much gear, he uses far less in comparison to those on here, GH plays a part though I believe.
> 
> his "carb" method is just skiploading with a fancy name to it.
> 
> ive used skiploading with success and have grown i think it was 8kg whilst been under 10% in less than a year


Does GH make that much of a difference mate? I've always heard mixed opinions on GH and the only reason I haven't used it is because its so expensive. I do however use AAS in large amounts but if I were to drop these to a more sensible level, would be able to purchase GH as well.

It all comes down to what will give better gains...


A sensible amount of ASS + GH

No GH but more AAS


I'm currently on 1600mg Tren-E + 400mg Test.

Can you explain skiploading to me mate. I think Rick calls it "Carb Metabolic Surge Protocol" which sounds a bit more cooler lol.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Does GH make that much of a difference mate? I've always heard mixed opinions on GH and the only reason I haven't used it is because its so expensive. I do however use AAS in large amounts but if I were to drop these to a more sensible level, would be able to purchase GH as well.
> 
> It all comes down to what will give better gains...
> 
> ...


It's basically a low carb week in a deficit.

Then you eat on the weekend in a 8-16 hour window nothing but high GI carbs, all goes in as glycogen (there are some methods to use by ie low fat no water and other stuff )

This will put on half a stone stored as glycogen, you then work it off, and youl be back at baseline weight by wed/thurs, drop another lb or two by Saturday where you refeed and start he process again, it gives u a guaranteed weight loss of 1 or 2 lb a week with still having growth from the abundance of glycogen.

I would pick normal AAS + GH over high dose AAS any day mate...

aAS does not have the capability to create new muscle cells like GH does


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> It's basically a low carb week in a deficit.
> 
> Then you eat on the weekend in a 8-16 hour window nothing but high GI carbs, all goes in as glycogen (there are some methods to use by ie low fat no water and other stuff )
> 
> ...


Is skiploading not similar to carb-cycling then mate?

Also, how low would you go in carbs during skiploading? Would not staying low carb for a couple of days wreak havoc with energy levels and make you feel like utter sh*t during your workouts?

My low carb days are 320g and I feel like I just about suffice on that amount lol. I do however workout AM + PM.

Still a little skeptical about GH after talking to @Pscarb and few other fellas. I've never met anyone personally who have said they've had amazing gains on GH.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Is skiploading not similar to carb-cycling then mate?
> 
> Also, how low would you go in carbs during skiploading? Would not staying low carb for a couple of days wreak havoc with energy levels and make you feel like utter sh*t during your workouts?
> 
> ...


no nothing like carb cycling mate, you go low carb but med/high fats to keep energy good, that half a stone of glycogen is used aswell and gives you plenty of energy.

kept mine about 200-300 when i did it..but i didnt count carbs back then, just ate by feel

ive had good gains with peptides + gh.. as i continue to grow without AAS at 15stone and crap natural hormones..


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Contest said:


> I know this question wasn't aimed at me but I'd like to share some info about my diet & training as well to show how much these variables vary from person to person...
> 
> 1. Workout 6x per week
> 
> ...


So, have you substituted the HIIT with LISS? I remember that before you used to do HIIT. I'm surprised that you changed over actually.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> How good gains can you get with intelligent use of peps and gh? I don't care about improved hair, skin, sleep etc. - I mean hard-core beef. Do they also help you stay lean all year?


i can maintain my muscle and grow with peps and gh used with the proper frequency, they keep you leaner than you would be without them thats for sure too..

as can @Bad Alan


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> i can maintain my muscle and grow with peps and gh used with the proper frequency, they keep you leaner than you would be without them thats for sure too..
> 
> as can @Bad Alan


Thanks for heads-up. I had actually PM'd Bad Alan about peps and he was also very positive about them.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> no nothing like carb cycling mate, you go low carb but med/high fats to keep energy good, that half a stone of glycogen is used aswell and gives you plenty of energy.
> 
> kept mine about 200-300 when i did it..but i didnt count carbs back then, just ate by feel
> 
> ive had good gains with peptides + gh.. as i continue to grow without AAS at 15stone and crap natural hormones..


Sorry mate, do you mean you kept your carb intake roughly 200-300 and then loaded up on the weekends? How much did you load up on?

Also, can you vouch for Rick's services? I'm trying to get as much information about his methods that's not directly taken from this site lol.



Bull Terrier said:


> So, have you substituted the HIIT with LISS? I remember that before you used to do HIIT. I'm surprised that you changed over actually.


As much as I enjoyed HIIT, after a few weeks I felt completely dismantled mate. My energy levels were completely shot and my weight training sessions suffered badly. It was at that point I thought to myself that my main priority is to build muscle so I really shouldn't be doing something that will hinder that process that drastically.

Doing an hour fasted LISS cardio in the mornings and another 30 minutes post-workout is working much better. I don't feel tired at all and if anything find it quite relaxing. I sit on a stationary bike and just listen to music and read books about bodybuilding using the Kindle app on my phone lol.


----------



## H_JM_S (Mar 27, 2012)

Slater8486 said:


> There is a lad in my gym who either has amazing genetics or something as his abs are unreal, he has a perfect diet like but I'd say he is at 8/9 all year round. Not on gear either but he is ripped up to sh1t!


My best mate is the same, single figures all year round. Natty and is in mega shape!!!! Puts people to shame who use lots of gear and look worse than him. However it's his life and he lives at the gym, works there 3 days a week and trains/sleeps the rest though.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Thanks for heads-up. I had actually PM'd Bad Alan about peps and he was also very positive about them.


he is using my pep protocol, as is Huntingground (if he could be 4rsed to mix them up  ) with success.

i can vouch for clinical grade peptides only, the uk ones are hit n miss...


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Sorry mate, do you mean you kept your carb intake roughly 200-300 and then loaded up on the weekends? How much did you load up on?
> 
> Also, can you vouch for Rick's services? I'm trying to get as much information about his methods that's not directly taken from this site lol.
> 
> ...


yes i can vouch for his LETS ADD MASS he wants to put me through it but its too cookie cutter for me, Im with JP at the moment.

i loaded up with anything from 1000g, to 2000g of sugary/starchy carbs - without any spill over.

u Will make more gains with LAM rather than without, pop him a message if your interested and say i've put you that way he will sort you out


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Contest said:


> Sorry mate, do you mean you kept your carb intake roughly 200-300 and then loaded up on the weekends? How much did you load up on?
> 
> Also, can you vouch for Rick's services? I'm trying to get as much information about his methods that's not directly taken from this site lol.
> 
> ...


If I remember right though you were doing a 2:1 ratio of moderate pace:hard pace whereas Pscarb recommends a ratio of 4:1 (2 minutes moderate to 30 seconds all out). Is it possible that you burned out on HIIT because you were doing it wrong?


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> he is using my pep protocol, as is Huntingground (if he could be 4rsed to mix them up  ) with success.
> 
> i can vouch for clinical grade peptides only, the uk ones are hit n miss...


I think I may well PM you in the near future to hear your protocol if that's okay with you mate...


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> he is using my pep protocol, as is Huntingground (if he could be 4rsed to mix them up  ) with success.
> 
> i can vouch for clinical grade peptides only, the uk ones are hit n miss...


Sure am! No turning back for me peps to pulse gh then synthetic in small doses on top. Will be run year round, allows you to eat more good staying lean which is only good for growth! Very old synergy with insulin too, but that's a different topic


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> I think I may well PM you in the near future to hear your protocol if that's okay with you mate...


You've already heard it  but do pm Mark with questions/queries he's good with this stuff.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> Sure am! No turning back for me peps to pulse gh then synthetic in small doses on top. Will be run year round, allows you to eat more good staying lean which is only good for growth! *Very old synergy with insulin too, but that's a different topic*


Please do explain mate! I'm all ears right now.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> You've already heard it  but do pm Mark with questions/queries he's good with this stuff.


OK then, I take this to mean that the sample protocol which I asked you about will be Mark's one. Cheers for that!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> no nothing like carb cycling mate, you go low carb but med/high fats to keep energy good, that half a stone of glycogen is used aswell and gives you plenty of energy.
> 
> kept mine about 200-300 when i did it..but i didnt count carbs back then, just ate by feel
> 
> ive had good gains with peptides + gh.. as i continue to grow without AAS at 15stone and crap natural hormones..





marknorthumbria said:


> yes i can vouch for his LETS ADD MASS he wants to put me through it but its too cookie cutter for me, Im with JP at the moment.
> 
> i loaded up with anything from 1000g, to 2000g of sugary/starchy carbs - without any spill over


So 200g-300g of carbs from Mon-Sat and then Sunday you'll smash anything from 1000g-2000g?

Does it have to be sugary carbs or can you just smash a shed load of low GI carbs. For example just overload on MyProtein oats?

How many days do you workout mate including cardio?

I myself was considering JP as I'm originally from Birmingham and he tends to hang around Ultimate Fitness gym quite a bit so easy access. I felt however that we weren't really on the same page as he's more geared towards eating and training less frequently with minimum to no cardio at all. It kind of reminded me of the classic bulking + cutting protocol which I'm not a fan of.

Rick has the type of physique I'm after so I feel it would be a better fit for me.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> If I remember right though you were doing a 2:1 ratio of moderate pace:hard pace whereas Pscarb recommends a ratio of 4:1 (2 minutes moderate to 30 seconds all out). Is it possible that you burned out on HIIT because you were doing it wrong?


I tried the 4:1 ratio mate and found it far to easy and not very beneficial for myself. I didn't see the point of it to be honest where you have people doing 1:1 or even 1:2 lol.


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> yes i can vouch for his LETS ADD MASS he wants to put me through it but its too cookie cutter for me, Im with JP at the moment.
> 
> i loaded up with anything from 1000g, to 2000g of sugary/starchy carbs - without any spill over.
> 
> u Will make more gains with LAM rather than without, pop him a message if your interested and say i've put you that way he will sort you out


now then mate! its daz

Good advice on here listen to Mark

Me and him both used skip loading this year or as Rick calls is CSMP his own name for it

Works 100% yes you keep carbs low to med during the week.

I would still cycle them higher days back and legs lower other body parts.

Then decreasing at end week and a very low day day before your Sunday skip load

Then smash in 1000g carbs plus to re fill you.

Only simple carbs are allowed fats has to be kept under 30g and protein only from egg whites and whey isolate.

Bcaa can still be added to ur water and sipped through day

Me and Mark had excellent response from this plan and proof is in pictures from Marks pics on here.

Lets add mass is good plan and he is right u will make more gains with it than without it.


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> So 200g-300g of carbs from Mon-Sat and then Sunday you'll smash anything from 1000g-2000g?
> 
> Does it have to be sugary carbs or can you just smash a shed load of low GI carbs. For example just overload on MyProtein oats?
> 
> ...


now then mate! its daz

Good advice on here listen to Mark

Me and him both used skip loading this year or as Rick calls is CSMP his own name for it

Works 100% yes you keep carbs low to med during the week.

I would still cycle them higher days back and legs lower other body parts.

Then decreasing at end week and a very low day day before your Sunday skip load

Then smash in 1000g carbs plus to re fill you.

Only simple carbs are allowed fats has to be kept under 30g and protein only from egg whites and whey isolate.

Bcaa can still be added to ur water and sipped through day

Me and Mark had excellent response from this plan and proof is in pictures from Marks pics on here.

Lets add mass is good plan and he is right u will make more gains with it than without it.

And Rick does no cardio like ive said the diet and gear do all work

Only cardio would be throwing in during last few weeks leading up to a contest for eg


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> Please do explain mate! I'm all ears right now.


No problem except old is meant to be "good" synergy drop me a pm though mate at work no time for details but will get back to you tonight


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> now then mate! its daz
> 
> Good advice on here listen to Mark
> 
> ...


Do you know what his training split is like mate? I do PPL 2x per week so don't have any light sessions as each session always has a big muscle being trained; be it legs, back or chest.

I think this is one of the reason I can't do "true" low carb days as my body demands more due to the amount of energy I'm outputting.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Do you know what his training split is like mate? I do PPL 2x per week so don't have any light sessions as each session always has a big muscle being trained; be it legs, back or chest.
> 
> I think this is one of the reason I can't do "true" low carb days as my body demands more due to the amount of energy I'm outputting.


yes his training is much more high intensity than JPs, he uses negatives and forced reps.

alot of forced reps!

your wrong about jP btw he has me on 5x a week cardio and a diet that allows for fat loss / muscle gain at the same time 

its a PPL split EOD with a hugely different non training day diet


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Dazarms said:


> now then mate! its daz
> 
> Good advice on here listen to Mark
> 
> ...


howling here at your name mate dazarms haha

FYI for all here his name is daz arms because hes rocking the 20" guns ha ha


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> Do you know what his training split is like mate? I do PPL 2x per week so don't have any light sessions as each session always has a big muscle being trained; be it legs, back or chest.
> 
> I think this is one of the reason I can't do "true" low carb days as my body demands more due to the amount of energy I'm outputting.


Yes mate I trained with him all last summer as we were both going for NABBA comp last May 2012. I pulled out in end but Rick went on win Mr Novice

So I learnt a hell of a lot from him in terms diet and training.

He will do 1 week heavy weights

2nd week throw in heavy to mod weight with forced reps, negatives,rest pause

Third week high reps a lot of fascia stretching, negatives higher reps really getting blood pumped into muscle

Then back round to heavy

That style of training

So week in week out changes around in terms what gets trained

e.g would be Mon shoulders and trices

Tues Back

Weds Off

Thurs Legs quads/hams

Fri Chest and bices

Sat off

Sun off

Another week would be like this

Mon - Arms

Tues - Back

Weds - off

Thurs - legs

Fri - Shoulders/Chest

Sat - off

Sun - off

Every sunday or when it is needed is CSMP I have an e.g meal plan lying around for CSMP will post it to give u an idea on how diet is this day

No you cant eat oatmeal it all has to be high GI carbs only bud


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

marknorthumbria said:


> howling here at your name mate dazarms haha
> 
> FYI for all here his name is daz arms because hes rocking the 20" guns ha ha


19.5 mate no need to exaggerate big man 

And Mark is rocking sick abs always and a chest like Arnie's!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> yes his training is much more high intensity than JPs, he uses negatives and forced reps.
> 
> alot of forced reps!
> 
> ...


Really? I think he may of meant no cardio for me then based on my current condition and look.



marknorthumbria said:


> howling here at your name mate dazarms haha
> 
> FYI for all here his name is daz arms because hes rocking the 20" guns ha ha


My god, I'm struggling to get mine past 18"


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Really? I think he may of meant no cardio for me then based on my current condition and look.
> 
> My god, I'm struggling to get mine past 18"


I came into him at 7% bf mate and he kept cardio in, and when i told him bf was creeping away he upped it along with some other nifty tricks


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> I came into him at 7% bf mate and he kept cardio in, and when i told him bf was creeping away he upped it along with some other nifty tricks


What style of cardio mate? LISS or HIIT & fasted or fed?


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> What style of cardio mate? LISS or HIIT & fasted or fed?


always fasted with BCAA Intra, black coffee + 10g coconut oil 20 mins pre,

both steady state and HIIT are used

my HIIT is 6x20second sprints

steady state is anything from 20 mins to 1 hour


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> always fasted with BCAA Intra, black coffee + 10g coconut oil 20 mins pre,
> 
> both steady state and HIIT are used
> 
> ...


How many HIIT sessions would you be doing per week mate. I imagine no more than two.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> How many HIIT sessions would you be doing per week mate. I imagine no more than two.


3 HIIT and 2 steady state right now mate..i like to keep my body guessing


----------



## Dazarms (Sep 8, 2013)

Contest said:


> Really? I think he may of meant no cardio for me then based on my current condition and look.
> 
> My god, I'm struggling to get mine past 18"


Ha Mark is just being kind there more like 19.5 inches 

Mark is rocking a massive Arnie chest we like to say in the gym

Good genetics on that lad

That CSMP plan mate is

Meal 1 pancakes made with egg whites , and Syrup with 50g isolate and 250g Haribo

Meal 2 Large bowl kids cereal with water using your whey isolate as mix chocolate,banana,vanilla ect

Meal 3 200g carbs from pasta white spaghetti and low fat tomato sauce

Meal 4 Repeat Meal 1

Meal 5 repeat meal 3

Meal 6 waffles with syrup and 50g whey isolate

that is an eg mate you can change it around and try different things.

Make a note of your brands and what u are using to hit that 1000g mark

It is not easy though and must be done on a day off as you will get headaches from all carbs and feel tired as day goes on but you will also see massive changed in body.

And if you bloat don't worry its not fat just water.

Some people will question this but 100% guarantee it works and is used by Rick and other people and Mark has used it as well as me


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dazarms said:


> Ha Mark is just being kind there more like 19.5 inches
> 
> Mark is rocking a massive Arnie chest we like to say in the gym
> 
> ...


I really appreciate the info mate.

I'm a big eater so don't think I'll have an issue consuming so much food. My issue is that psychologically I'd feel awkward eating so much sugar lol.

Its also further mentally damaging knowing I'd have to do this on a day off mg:

Do you still currently do this mate or have you switched over to another protocol?


----------



## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

Dazarms said:


> Alreet but didn't no u were on here.
> 
> Ive just signed up like
> 
> ...


haha cheers daz,that pic was just before i went away....chucked it all away in ibiza,steadily back on corse now,no more drinking....its my cryptonyte haha


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> I really appreciate the info mate.
> 
> I'm a big eater so don't think I'll have an issue consuming so much food. My issue is that psychologically I'd feel awkward eating so much sugar lol.
> 
> ...


Stop worrying and enjoy the sugar binge. It works, google skiploading, plenty of info about.


----------



## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> howling here at your name mate dazarms haha
> 
> FYI for all here his name is daz arms because hes rocking the 20" guns ha ha


I knew who he was without having to see a pic because of that name haha


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> Stop worrying and enjoy the sugar binge. It works, google skiploading, plenty of info about.


I did Google it mate 

Its just that this protocol seems more of a comp prep protocol that is done weeks prior to competing as apposed to a full blown diet protocol such as carb-cycling or carb-backloading. That's what confused me when I began reading about it.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> I did Google it mate
> 
> Its just that this protocol seems more of a comp prep protocol that is done weeks prior to competing as apposed to a full blown diet protocol such as carb-cycling or carb-backloading. That's what confused me when I began reading about it.


carb backloading looks bull to me,

carb cycling is ok but i prefer having two diets, pro/fat/veg on non train days mostly with one carb meal in meal 4, and on training days i Cram in 500g of carbs 3 hours either side of the workout.


----------



## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> carb backloading looks bull to me,
> 
> carb cycling is ok but i prefer having two diets, pro/fat/veg on non train days mostly with one carb meal in meal 4, and on training days i Cram in 500g of carbs 3 hours either side of the workout.


Hi mate.

In a nutshell what is the benefit of this split diet?

Been doing it last week or so but don't fully understand the theory behind it.

Cheers


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Prince Adam said:


> Hi mate.
> 
> In a nutshell what is the benefit of this split diet?
> 
> ...


Eating fats is the way to go about for fat loss, but fats as energy in a workout are useless. U need glycogen, so carbs are thrown in here for recovery, power and such, I could throw words in like macro nutrient timing, insulin spikes etc but then I'd just be regurgitating information incorrectly, it just works


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> carb backloading looks bull to me,
> 
> carb cycling is ok but i prefer having two diets, pro/fat/veg on non train days mostly with one carb meal in meal 4, and on training days i Cram in 500g of carbs 3 hours either side of the workout.


If working out 6-7 times per week, there would be no need for two diets would there mate? In my case as I workout 6x per week, I could just simply reduce my carb intake for one of the days and stick to a more carb rich diet the other days with a massive load-up on the Sunday.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> If working out 6-7 times per week, there would be no need for two diets would there mate? In my case as I workout 6x per week, I could just simply reduce my carb intake for one of the days and stick to a more carb rich diet the other days with a massive load-up on the Sunday.


I dont agree with carb cycling on workout days, even if its a smaller muscle group why would you want to lower the amount of nutrition available for recovery, you should do timed carbs, eat them around the workout only, and pro/fats/veg in the run up and one after


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> I dont agree with carb cycling on workout days, even if its a smaller muscle group why would you want to lower the amount of nutrition available for recovery, you should do timed carbs, eat them around the workout only, and pro/fats/veg in the run up and one after


I do agree with you to an extent mate but I think if carb-cycling with big numbers, its not too much of an issue. The one thing I found was that "true" low carb days if training 5-6x per week just couldn't really be done. I personally ended up having dire workouts.

I've worked out that around 300g of carbs for me are just enough to keep me ticking over on workout days so I've now established this as my minimum or low carb day. The 2 high carb days I have are for when I am completely destroying myself & CNS in the gym with super heavy deadlifts and leg presses. The medium days I use for when my main priority is hypertrophy for big muscles. For example my high carb back day has me deadlifting up to 260kg which is my 1 rep max but my hypertrophy back day excludes deadlifts but focuses on rows where I only rest between 30-50 seconds per set and aim for maximum hypertrophy.

I'm only trying this method out to see whether I can keep gains coming whilst simultaneously dropping bodyfat.

In terms of timed carbs I couldn't agree with you more. I consume carbs for breakfast as soon as I've completed my 1 hour fasted cardio session, pre-workout and then post-workout.


----------



## tikkajohn (Dec 6, 2012)

L11 said:


> More steroids?
> 
> TBH I think Simeon Panda is photoshop, and in videos they use advanced CGI from Dreamworks
> 
> Not jealous.


Thinking the same as I have seen pictures of him with his tatoo on opposite side of this body!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

@marknorthumbria

@Dazarms

Hey lads,

I was thinking more about the whole CMSP protocol/Skiploading and was wondering that if strapped for time, or finding it hard to chug down a shed load of carbs, could an individual literally just use loads of Dextrose or Vitargo?

As an example... From Mon - Sat consume 200g - 300g per day split across breakfast and post-workout using primarily low GI carbs.

Then Sunday get in 1000g of carbs primarily coming from either Dextrose or Vitargo over the space of 4-6 hours.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> @marknorthumbria
> 
> @Dazarms
> 
> ...


no, because you cant take in water during this skip period.

i dont understand why youd not want to eat lots of pancakes and sweets to get ripped.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> no, because you cant take in water during this skip period.
> 
> i dont understand why youd not want to eat lots of pancakes and sweets to get ripped.


Lol oh no its not that I don't want to mate. Its just if you have something on at the weekend, you wouldn't have the luxury to sit at home for a few hours eating pancakes and syrup whereas you can carry dextrose or vitargo around with you.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Lol oh no its not that I don't want to mate. Its just if you have something on at the weekend, you wouldn't have the luxury to sit at home for a few hours eating pancakes and syrup whereas you can carry dextrose or vitargo around with you.


then dont skip mate, pick a day you are at home with no plans, you will get headaches, cramps etc from 1500g carbs with no water, you dont want to be out and about lol


----------



## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Contest said:


> Lol oh no its not that I don't want to mate. Its just if you have something on at the weekend, you wouldn't have the luxury to sit at home for a few hours eating pancakes and syrup whereas you can carry dextrose or vitargo around with you.


Hahaha be honest mate you've been eating clean for so long that the thought of bingeing on haribo all day scares the sh*t out of you.

Cant wait to try skiploading...when im lean enough!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> then dont skip mate, pick a day you are at home with no plans, you will get headaches, cramps etc from 1500g carbs with no water, you dont want to be out and about lol


Lol is it really that bad? Yesterday was a high carb day for me (all from low GI carbs though based on my current diet), and I literally felt like throwing up towards the night lol.

660g I thought was manageable but consuming them within such a short time span left me completely destroyed. I don't know whether it's from the amount of carbs I ate that caused this or whether due to the fact that 95% of my carbs were from oats and its the large amount of fibre that crippled me.

I don't understand how you guys are chugging down 1000g-2000g on skip days mg:

Have emailed Rick today by the way saying you recommended him


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

foodaddict said:


> Hahaha be honest mate you've been eating clean for so long that the thought of bingeing on haribo all day scares the sh*t out of you.
> 
> Cant wait to try skiploading...when im lean enough!


Lmao well there is a small element of that as well :whistling:


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Lol is it really that bad? Yesterday was a high carb day for me (all from low GI carbs though based on my current diet), and I literally felt like throwing up towards the night lol.
> 
> 660g I thought was manageable but consuming them within such a short time span left me completely destroyed. I don't know whether it's from the amount of carbs I ate that caused this or whether due to the fact that 95% of my carbs were from oats and its the large amount of fibre that crippled me.
> 
> ...


i can tell you that it is more than likely that the gluten in that many oats is what crippled you..try gluten free oats

1000g is **** mate when its lovely pancakes jam and fluff 

no bother i woudlnt expect a quick reply though hes a slow snail lol


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> i can tell you that it is more than likely that the gluten in that many oats is what crippled you..try gluten free oats
> 
> 1000g is **** mate when its lovely pancakes jam and fluff
> 
> no bother i woudlnt expect a quick reply though hes a slow snail lol


I didn't even think of gluten intolerance lol. I am lactose intolerant so have to have my oats with Lactofree milk.

I always thought oats were gluten free though :confused1:


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> I didn't even think of gluten intolerance lol. I am lactose intolerant so have to have my oats with Lactofree milk.
> 
> I always thought oats were gluten free though :confused1:


a certain type of oats are, some oats say they are but arent,

I get the gluten free ones from sainsburys in the free from section and can put down 175g no bother


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> a certain type of oats are, some oats say they are but arent,
> 
> I get the gluten free ones from sainsburys in the free from section and can put down 175g no bother


Do you eat pretty clean throughout the whole week mate and then go bonkers on the skiploading days or do you tend to eat a little junk here and there through the week as well?


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Do you eat pretty clean throughout the whole week mate and then go bonkers on the skiploading days or do you tend to eat a little junk here and there through the week as well?


I'm not skiploading right now mate I want normal cheats for now, I did it for 8 weeks in the run up to my last holiday but yea a diet doesn't come any cleaner than mine, no sauces for half a year


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> I'm not skiploading right now mate I want normal cheats for now, I did it for 8 weeks in the run up to my last holiday but yea a diet doesn't come any cleaner than mine, no sauces for half a year


Did you use any fat burners: Clen, T3, DNP, etc?

Have PM'd you my current diet. Have a ganders :thumb:


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> Did you use any fat burners: Clen, T3, DNP, etc?
> 
> Have PM'd you my current diet. Have a ganders :thumb:


40mcg clen does me, I like t3 too

I'd never touch DNP in a million years


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> 40mcg clen does me, I like t3 too
> 
> I'd never touch DNP in a million years


T3 dose mate? I'd been pound 100mcg for almost a year. Have now dropped it down to 25mcg just to aid protein synthesis.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> T3 dose mate? I'd been pound 100mcg for almost a year. Have now dropped it down to 25mcg just to aid protein synthesis.


fvuk me i use 50/100mcg for never more than 6 weeks at a time,

ive repsonded to your diet with my suggestions mate

you are doing wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much cardio lol


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> fvuk me i use 50/100mcg for never more than 6 weeks at a time,
> 
> ive repsonded to your diet with my suggestions mate
> 
> you are doing wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much cardio lol


I can't stop doing LISS cardio for some reason lol.

Do you consume carbs pre-workout Mark? I've noticed pre-workout carbs starts making me feel groggy and tired for some reason.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> I can't stop doing LISS cardio for some reason lol.
> 
> Do you consume carbs pre-workout Mark? I've noticed pre-workout carbs starts making me feel groggy and tired for some reason.


i use 30g 20 mins pre, and 100g sipped intra

what carbs were you using? maltodextrin doesnt agree with everyones stomachs, karboyln is an alternative that is brilliant on the stomach


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> i use 30g 20 mins pre, and 100g sipped intra
> 
> what carbs were you using? maltodextrin doesnt agree with everyones stomachs, karboyln is an alternative that is brilliant on the stomach


I'm currently having either 100g or 200g of oats 2 hours pre-workout. If I have my oats at 5:30pm, I notice by about 6:30pm I'm feel very tired and sleepy. By the time I hit the gym at 7:30pm I'm still feeling the same but that tiresome feeling soon wears off once I've gotten into my workout.

I'm thinking of just keeping my carb intake breakfast and post-workout now. Thinking of having the brunt of carbs for breakfast as I'm feeling ravenous in the mornings. Having so much carbs post-workout leaves me feeling ridiculously bloated as I have a lot of meat in my post-workout meal.

I drink Scivation Xtend throughout all my workouts.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Contest said:


> I'm currently having either 100g or 200g of oats 2 hours pre-workout. If I have my oats at 5:30pm, I notice by about 6:30pm I'm feel very tired and sleepy. By the time I hit the gym at 7:30pm I'm still feeling the same but that tiresome feeling soon wears off once I've gotten into my workout.
> 
> I'm thinking of just keeping my carb intake breakfast and post-workout now. Thinking of having the brunt of carbs for breakfast as I'm feeling ravenous in the mornings. Having so much carbs post-workout leaves me feeling ridiculously bloated as I have a lot of meat in my post-workout meal.
> 
> I drink Scivation Xtend throughout all my workouts.


its the my protein oats making you feel like that mate, ive had them and theyr sh!t !!!

get the free from oats from sainsburys and youl feel different, gotta eat them though not drink unless can blend


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> its the my protein oats making you feel like that mate, ive had them and theyr sh!t !!!
> 
> get the free from oats from sainsburys and youl feel different, gotta eat them though not drink unless can blend


I'll give that a crack tonight mate. May blend them as it makes it quicker to consume which I need due to my busy schedule.

The MP one's taste so delicious in Choc Smooth though :crying:


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> its the my protein oats making you feel like that mate, ive had them and theyr sh!t !!!
> 
> get the free from oats from sainsburys and youl feel different, gotta eat them though not drink unless can blend


Thought I'd give you an update mate. So far today I've consumed 800g of MP oats + 2.4L milk and I don't feel bloated like I did last Tuesday and Wednesday. I did however make two changes today which I think may have been upsetting my stomach.


The first one being that I supplement on 2 capsules of Whole Psyllium Husk upon waking up and when jumping into bed. Today I decided not to.

The second one being that I've been using ECA 2x per day as a stimulant to keep me wired in the gym. Today I decided not to.


I have a feeling either the fibre from the Whole Psyllium Husk was destroying my gut or the Aspirin from the ECA stack. After doing some research I discovered both these things can cause stomach issues for certain individuals.

The reason I thought it could not of been the oats is because I've been using them for years now and they've never made my stomach feel like this before.


----------



## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Have you tried

http://www.theproteinworks.com/products/powders/carbohydrates/advanced-oats.html

Vitamin B2 - Integral to energy production and plays a role in red blood cell formation.

Niacin - Shown to help support both anaerobic and aerobic performance.

Vitamin B1 - Helps to breakdown both protein and carbohydrates for use as energy.

Vitamin B6 - Involved in over 100 metabolic reactions in the body including the production of energy and haemoglobin.

Vitamin B12 - Crucial for getting oxygen to tissues. B12 is only found in animal products, therefore key for vegetarian and vegan athletes.

Vitamin C - Offers a range of key benefits including protection from infection and damage to body cells.

Pantothenic Acid - Needed for the breakdown of fats, proteins and carbs into usable energy for athletes.

Biotin - Plays an important role in the production of energy.

Vitamin D3 - Plays a key role for bone health and supporting the immune system during intense training.

Vitamin A - Provides several important functions such as strengthening immunity against infections.

Folic Acid - One of the B group vitamins that works together with vitamin B12 to form healthy red blood cells.

Digezyme®


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

xpower said:


> Have you tried
> 
> http://www.theproteinworks.com/products/powders/carbohydrates/advanced-oats.html
> 
> ...


Bloody hell, I didn't even realize such a product existed. The only thing is though that I already supplement on multi-vitamins and digestive enzymes so I don't think using any more would be a great idea. It would be verging on overdose in my case lol.


----------



## xpower (Jul 28, 2009)

Contest said:


> Bloody hell, I didn't even realize such a product existed. The only thing is though that I already supplement on multi-vitamins and digestive enzymes so I don't think using any more would be a great idea. It would be verging on overdose in my case lol.


 I see what ya saying,but with the advanced oats you get what ya need to aid the digestion exactly when needed.

no too expensive either


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

xpower said:


> I see what ya saying,but with the advanced oats you get what ya need to aid the digestion exactly when needed.
> 
> no too expensive either


I agree with that mate but I like to time my multivitamins in the morning and right before bed. Also, I take digestive enzymes with all large meals so I'd still need a separate supply of them lol. I think MP do a similar product but its whey protein loaded with multivitamins and digestive enzymes. Gave that a miss for the same reason.

Cheers for the heads up though. Always good to see and know that products like these exist on the market


----------



## WannaGetHench (Aug 22, 2010)

Contest said:


> I agree with that mate but I like to time my multivitamins in the morning and right before bed. Also, I take digestive enzymes with all large meals so I'd still need a separate supply of them lol. I think MP do a similar product but its whey protein loaded with multivitamins and digestive enzymes. Gave that a miss for the same reason.
> 
> Cheers for the heads up though. Always good to see and know that products like these exist on the market


i take 6000mg of vitc right before i go to bed, is it best to take throughout the day?


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

WannaGetHench said:


> i take 6000mg of vitc right before i go to bed, is it best to take throughout the day?


I'd always prefer to split my multivitamins through the day with meals mate.


----------



## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Contest said:


> Thought I'd give you an update mate. So far today I've consumed 800g of MP oats + 2.4L milk and I don't feel bloated like I did last Tuesday and Wednesday. I did however make two changes today which I think may have been upsetting my stomach.
> 
> 
> The first one being that I supplement on 2 capsules of Whole Psyllium Husk upon waking up and when jumping into bed. Today I decided not to.
> ...


BCAAs can cause stomach bloat. Perhaps the xtend could be contributing? I often get bloat from BCAAs if I use over 10g. I've found mixing BCAAs with ice water reduced my bloating too.


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

invisiblekid said:


> BCAAs can cause stomach bloat. Perhaps the xtend could be contributing? I often get bloat from BCAAs if I use over 10g. I've found mixing BCAAs with ice water reduced my bloating too.


Really? I've never heard of BCAA's bloating anyone but upon Googling it I have found quite a few threads where people are complaining of bloating after BCAA usage.

I can't say I've ever felt bloated directly after BCAA usage. I have done sub 100g low carb days where I've used 1 scoop of Xtend with 1L of water in the AM & PM and have been fine. I really think it was the whole psyllium husk giving me the bloat. One of the recommendations was to consume a lot of water with it but I'd been using a minimal amount.


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Vit C is good in the morn, PWO and pre bed


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Contest said:


> Really? I've never heard of BCAA's bloating anyone but upon Googling it I have found quite a few threads where people are complaining of bloating after BCAA usage.
> 
> I can't say I've ever felt bloated directly after BCAA usage. I have done sub 100g low carb days where I've used 1 scoop of Xtend with 1L of water in the AM & PM and have been fine. I really think it was the whole psyllium husk giving me the bloat. One of the recommendations was to consume a lot of water with it but I'd been using a minimal amount.


Reason physilium husk has recommendation for that is it will clear water as it clears your digestive tract making you **** more basically acting as a laxative.


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

marknorthumbria said:


> Vit C is good in the morn, PWO and pre bed


Excellent post workout not alot of people realise


----------



## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Bad Alan said:


> Excellent post workout not alot of people realise


At what kind of dosages?


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

RowRow said:


> At what kind of dosages?


Personally 3grams mate, well proven to lower cortisol after intense training.

Here you go, educate 

http://www.poliquingroup.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/1562/Tip-435-Take-Vitamin-C-Post-Workout-To-Lower-Cortisol-Recover-Faster.aspx


----------



## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Bad Alan said:


> Personally 3grams mate, well proven to lower cortisol after intense training.
> 
> Here you go, educate
> 
> http://www.poliquingroup.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/1562/Tip-435-Take-Vitamin-C-Post-Workout-To-Lower-Cortisol-Recover-Faster.aspx


5g pre bed I've found stops me having so many p1sses through the night lol


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Sooooo, what's a realistic % year round?


----------



## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

marknorthumbria said:


> 5g pre bed I've found stops me having so many p1sses through the night lol


Think I will be trying that as waking up 3x a night for one is killing me as once I'm up I'm up for a couple of hours!


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bad Alan said:


> Reason physilium husk has recommendation for that is it will clear water as it clears your digestive tract making you **** more basically acting as a laxative.


It never had any laxative effects on me but having not taken it for a few days, I do feel much better. I thought whole psyllium husk was supposed to good for your gut lol.



BLUE(UK) said:


> Sooooo, what's a realistic % year round?


I'm still waiting for a definitive answer lol. I now can't help thinking a lot of pics I've seen may be heavily photoshopped. I met a few people over the weekend and noticed they don't look nowhere near as vascular and shredded in person as they do in their pics. Don't get me wrong they look proper lean, but not shredded where their skin is like tracing paper and veins like drainpipes.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Contest said:


> I'm still waiting for a definitive answer lol. I now can't help thinking a lot of pics I've seen may be heavily photoshopped. I met a few people over the weekend and noticed they don't look nowhere near as vascular and shredded in person as they do in their pics. Don't get me wrong they look proper lean, but not shredded where their skin is like tracing paper and veins like drainpipes.


Back when I used to work the doors, there was a guy who used to come in the pub who was obviously a lifter/AAS user to an higher level but nothing special IMO. He used to go to the club afterwards for all nighters but like I said, he didn't seem anything special.

In 2011 I think it was, I went to bodypower and there he was working one of the trade stands as a sponsored bodybuilder,to say I was surprised is an understatement. Later, there were pics on here of said guy and it turns out that a lot of people in the competitive scene had nothing but a lot of praise for him.

Maybe come comp time he nails his AAS/diet/training regime, but I honestly only saw him in decent shape a few times. I would say one of the guys(ex bodybuilder) who was a regular all weekend drinker was in much better shape(year round) than this bodybuilder although this guy did eat/train very well Mon-Fri so don't mistake him for the usual drinker.

Baffled? Me too.


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Contest said:


> It never had any laxative effects on me but having not taken it for a few days, I do feel much better. I thought whole psyllium husk was supposed to good for your gut lol.
> 
> I'm still waiting for a definitive answer lol. I now can't help thinking a lot of pics I've seen may be heavily photoshopped. I met a few people over the weekend and noticed they don't look nowhere near as vascular and shredded in person as they do in their pics. Don't get me wrong they look proper lean, but not shredded where their skin is like tracing paper and veins like drainpipes.


You know physilium husk is a type of fibre yes? And you know the action of fibre?


----------



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bad Alan said:


> You know physilium husk is a type of fibre yes? And you know the action of fibre?


Oh yeh I do know that but what I meant was I felt no difference in terms of bathroom visits between when I wasn't using husk compared to when I was. Stools themselves were the same as well.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> Excellent post workout not alot of people realise


ha ye always have vit C pwo


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> 5g pre bed I've found stops me having so many p1sses through the night lol


top tip lol


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