# Natural test boosters



## Guest (May 4, 2006)

I might be going over an old topic again but i've scanned the archive and cant find anything on the subject, so I apologise if this question has been asked before.

Natural test boosters, Norteen HII, Long Jack etc...are these any good and if so which one is the best?

Theres loads out there but and there all pretty expensive so I wanted to check whether id be better of just burning my money instead?

Any help??


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## chalk (Jan 21, 2006)

Personally, I think thry're are a waste of time and money.(I presume you're NOT talking about prohormones etc when you say `natural´).

It's much more important that you have a good diet and routine. You would notice very little in extra gains from natural test boosters if your diet and routine isn't good.

Invest your money on a good protein and some creatine. Any spare money, get plenty of chicken and turkey breasts in.


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

I agree, good quality food and protein instead of these.

Nick


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

A Scientific Analysis of Over-the-Counter Testosterone Boosters

by Jay McCombs

Introduction

Question One: What do you get when you mix 19 molecules of carbon, 28 molecules of hydrogen, and 2 molecules of oxygen? It could be a lot of things, but maybe (if you are lucky) it could order into 17beta-Hydroxyandrost-4-en-3-one. Sound familiar? That's right, it's your friend and mine testosterone.

Question Two: How can you increase your body's natural production of testosterone? That's a tougher one. Pro-hormones are no longer easily obtained legally and personal stashes will soon dwindle, making this question even timelier.

In the next few pages I will review the scientific literature through exhaustive searches of Medline, CINAHL, EBM, and SPORTDiscus with regard to some of the most popular Over-the-Counter testosterone boosters currently on the market. I will examine the possible mechanism of action for each and assess whether any of these alleged testosterone boosters have a positive effect on testosterone production, exercise performance, or both.

Tribulus Terrestris

The first on the list is of course Tribulus Terrestris, specifically the steroidal saponin protodioscin. Tribulus has long been used in various cultures as an aphrodisiac and treatment for sexual dysfunction. The theory then follows that this increase in libido is probably due to increased levels of androgens, which would also mean that Tribulus generates some type of ergogenic effect. So what does the research say?

First lets look at several studies conducted on animals that examined the aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus. The first study investigated the response of corpus cavernosal tissue isolated from rabbits that were fed Tribulus for eight weeks [1]. After harvesting, tissues were then exposed to protodiscin, contractile agents, and relaxant agents. Tissue strips from treated rabbits showed an increased rate of relaxation when administered various relaxing agents after said tissue was constricted with norepinephrine. This indicated that Tribulus seemed to have some effect on the rabbits' ability to get erections; however, no specific mechanism could be pinpointed.

Follow up research ensued. The next two studies, conducted on castrated rats, examined variables that essentially investigated how sexually aroused the rats were [2, 3]. The researchers found that Tribulus supplementation definitely appeared to increase the rats libido. Again however, an exact mechanism could not be found.

The latest study by the same researchers tried to determine the mechanism of action by which the mice and rats each appeared to experience heightened arousal levels [4]. Once again, rats were fed Tribulus for 8 weeks. Immunoreactivity studies were performed on the androgen receptor (AR), while Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase (NADPH-d) levels were taken from the rat paraventricular nucleus in order to determine activity.

The researchers found activity at both receptors increased over control; however, this muddied the waters a bit. NADPH-d neurons are the same that contain NOS. Previous research indicated these neurons were inhibited by increased androgen activity. The researchers attributed this to effects mediated through the conversion of androgens to estrogen, which would then increase the number of NADPH-d neurons. The end result was the same: Tribulus undoubtedly heightened arousal, but whether this was a result of increased androgen levels was unclear.

So, rats having sex is fun to watch, but we want to get buff, right? Well, lets talk about primates. Primates given Tribulus intravenously showed a transient (read, 30 minutes) increase in testosterone and DHT and a longer increase in DHEAS (an increase of about 25-50% for about 120 minutes), which might be helpful with DHEA mediated effects on sexual function if your testosterone was low [5]. Otherwise, this effect probably would not be noticeable.

In my opinion, the nail in Tribs coffin comes from the following two studies. The first study examined body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states of subjects before and after 8 weeks of taking either a Tribulus extract or a placebo [6]. No significant change was found in any of these parameters after supplementation with Tribulus when compared with the placebo group.

The next study evaluated claims that LH and subsequently testosterone levels were increased above normal after ingesting Tribulus extracts [7]. Baseline levels of testosterone and its metabolites in urine and serum were established for all subjects. Participants were then fed a heaping gram of Tribulus daily for 4 weeks. Testosterone levels were checked routinely, and researchers found no significant increase in hormone levels beyond normal day to day variations. This research is the most significant and relevant to our discussion here today. It was conducted on humans and looked for the two variables we are most concerned with: increasing testosterone and, in turn, increasing exercise performance-and in both of these studies Tribulus failed to do either.

I just briefly want to discuss the Sopharma research. This research was not included in this review for several reasons. It has not been published in a reputable English language journal and subsequently peer reviewed; and, subsequent research has been unable to elicit the same results when conducted in a similar manner [7].

In my opinion Tribulus is not useful for increasing androgen levels in healthy males or improving exercise performance. There may be some effect on individuals with androgen deficiencies where Tribulus acts as a precursor to deficient DHEA, but at this time the only conclusion that can be definitively drawn about Tribulus is that it seems to be quite effective at making castrated rats horny [8].

ZMA

Next we'll take a look at ZMA, a combination of Zinc Monomethionine Aspartate (30mg), Magnesium Aspartate (450 mg) and Vitamin B-6 (10.5 mg). The theory behind ZMA is simple: zinc and magnesium are important in the production of steroids and B-6 is important in energy production, two things crucial to athletes. If you become deficient in any of the ingredients in ZMA you see a subsequent decrease in androgen production and performance in general--and there is evidence that a number of diets may be deficient in all three [9-22]. In addition, high protein intake and exercise can increase daily B-6 requirements. Lastly, intake of other minerals can affect the absorption of magnesium and zinc, making supplementation attractive [23-27].

But what evidence is there to show that ZMA intake increases exercise performance or testosterone levels? In vitro research clearly illustrates how supplementation with magnesium can decrease the amount of testosterone bound to human serum albumin, thus, increasing free testosterone [28]. Another study, this time actually conducted on people, showed an increase in performance in untrained males after 7 weeks of supplementing with magnesium [29].

Another interesting effect of both zinc and magnesium is their influence on cortisol secretion. Fourteen-day supplementation with magnesium decreased cortisol secretion in male subjects during ergometer testing. A study conducted with oral dosages of zinc ranging from 25 mg to 50 mg showed an inhibitory affect on cortisol secretion over 240 minutes [30, 31]. This evidence suggests that ZMA supplementation could cause performance increases and an increase in testosterone via the decrease of the catabolic hormone cortisol.

In conclusion, ZMA supplements definitely have the potential to increase testosterone production and performance in individuals deficient in any of the constituent ingredients. The likelihood of raising testosterone production above physiological maximums seems unlikely given the nature of the effect of the product; therefore, supplementation with ZMA should be looked at as a preventative measure to make sure testosterone levels don't fall below peak.

Androstenetrione

Now let's look at a totally different approach to increasing testosterone production. Androstenetrione, marketed by Ergopharm under the name 6-oxo, is a proven aromatase inhibitor (AI) (aromatase is the enzyme responsible for the conversion of androgens to estrogen) and has been used extensively as a legal, over-the-counter source for post-steroid-cycle therapy in order to help restore the reduced testosterone production that results from exogenous androgen use [32-36].

Recently, an interest in androstenetrione as a standalone means to increasing testosterone has peaked. The theory is simple: decrease the amount of estrogen reaching the brain (a potent stimulus to decrease the hormones that cause androgens to be made) and see the body try and correct the drop by an increase in the production of androgen and estrogen precursors. Since you are taking a substance that is reducing the body's ability to make estrogen from said compounds, the only other option is an increase in testosterone to maintain the same amount of estrogen.

While there is a paucity of clinical research on the effects of androstenetrione on testosterone levels (actually only one study regarding the sexual differentiation of castrated rats) there is ample research on the effects of other aromatase inhibitors and their effect on hormone production [37]. Several recent studies showed that hypogonadal elderly men showed an increase in testosterone while using an AI [38, 39]. Perhaps the most relevant and exciting research in the area shows an acute decrease in estradiol. This research also shows an increase in LH and subsequent increases in testosterone in both young and old men supplementing with an AI [40]. Theoretically, androstenetrione should largely work in the same way.

Conclusion

For those of you that just like to skip to the end, I'll give you a quick summary of my findings regarding Tribulus, ZMA and androstenetrione. There is no published literature that indicates any benefit to supplementing with Tribulus in regards to increasing testosterone or exercise performance. ZMA shows promise as a preventative supplement, much like a multivitamin, with the goal of maintaining testosterone production at its peek. Androstenetrione shows the most promise of increasing levels of testosterone production above physiological norms by modulating the signals that tell your body to make more hormones.

Last edited by Young Gun on Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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Young Gun

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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:00 am Post subject:

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Just to further piss all over the I love tribulus people

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Jun 30; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links

The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.

Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria.

OBJECTIVE:: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS:: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS:: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

Tribulus Terrestris Update

Richard B. Kreider, PhD, FACSM

I recently came across a web site promoting the ergogenic value Tribulus terrestris. The site claimed that

Tribulus supplementation would naturally boost testosterone levels leading to greater gains in muscle

mass and strength during training. Is this true? This article discusses what we know and don?t know

about Tribulus terrestris so you can make an informed decision of whether to add this supplement to your

training table.

Background

Tribulus terrestris is a plant (also known as puncture weed/vine or caltrops) that is mainly grown in sandy

soil environments. It produces a fruit that is protected by a spiny burr. The extract from the fruit has

been used in herbal medicine as a diuretic, for colic pains, and to fight hypertension and

hypercholesterolemia (1,2). It has also been shown to increase testosterone levels (3) and improve sexual

function in animals (3-5) as well as to reduce symptoms of angina pectoris in heart patients (6).

Excessive intake of Tribulus terrestris has been reported to cause neuromuscular disorders in sheep (7-.

The active agent in Tribulus is believed to be protodioscin. Protodioscin is a precursor to

dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). As you may know, DHEA and androstenedione are precursors to

testosterone. As one ages, androgen levels decline. Therefore, DHEA and androstenedione

supplementation have been theorized as a means of naturally increasing testoserone levels particularly in

older individuals. Although Tribulus is a precursor to DHEA, Tribulus is believed to indirectly affect

testosterone levels by stimulating the release of leutinizing hormone (LH). LH serves to stimulate the

natural production of testosterone. Theoretically, moderately increasing testosterone availability during

training may promote greater gains in strength and muscle mass.

Does Tribulus Terrestris Work?

Well, as you know, the theoretical rationale behind many supplements sounds promising. However, the

promises often fade when one looks at the scientific evidence supporting the theories. Tribulus is no

exception. To date, there are only a handful of studies that have investigated the effects of Tribulus

terrestris supplementation on hormone regulation, sexual function, health, and/or training adaptations.

Most of these studies have been conducted in animals. Although several web sites claim that Tribulus

terrestris supplementation markedly increases LH and testosterone levels, I was only able to find two

published studies that have investigated the effects of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on training

adaptations in humans.

In the first study, Antonio and colleagues (9) evaluated the effects of Tribulus terrestris supplementation

during training on body composition and performance. In a double blind and randomized manner, 15

resistance-trained males ingested either 3.21 mg/kg/day of a placebo (P) or Tribulus terrestris (T) for eight

weeks during a standardized resistance-training program. Prior to and following supplementation,

subjects completed dietary inventories, a mood state psychological inventory, and had body composition

(skinfolds and hydrostatic weighing) and total body water (bioelectrical impedance) measurements

determined. The subjects also performed a maximum repetition tests on the bench press and leg press at

100% and 200% of body weight, respectively. Results revealed that Tribulus terrestris supplementation

had no significant effects on changes in mood states, total body weight (P +0.6, T +0.9 kg), total body

water (P +0.9, T +0.3 liters), hydrostatically determined percent body fat (P +0.2, T +0.0 %), or gains in

bench press (P +28.4, T +3.1 %) or leg press (P +26.1, T +28.6 %) muscle endurance. Although LH and

testosterone levels were not assessed in this study, results indicated that Tribulus terrestris

supplementation (approximately 250 mg/day) during resistance training had no significant effects on body

composition or training adaptations.

Proponents of Tribulus terrestris supplementation have suggested that the dosage in the previous study

may have been insufficient, that Tribulus terrestris may be more effective when coingested with other

anabolic precursors, and/or that Tribulus terrestris may have a greater impact on untrained subjects

initiating training. However, research findings from a study by Brown and associates (10) do not support

these contentions. In the first part of this study, 10 subjects were evaluated to determine the effects of

ingesting a placebo or anabolic precursors on hormone levels. Subjects had fasting blood determined and

then ingested a placebo or a supplement containing 100 mg androstenedione, 50 mg DHEA, 250 mg

Tribulus terrestris, 195 mg Chrysin, 100 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 180 mg Saw palmetto. Blood samples

were obtained every hour for six hours. Results revealed that anabolic precursor supplementation

significantly increased androstenedione levels. However, no significant differences were between the

placebo and anabolic precursor trials in LH, follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), estradiol, free

testosterone, or total testosterone levels. These findings suggest that although anabolic precursors may

increase androstenedione levels, they have no significant acute effect on other androgenic or estrogenic

hormones.

In the second phase of this study, 20 untrained young male subjects participated in a 3-day per week

resistance training program for 8-weeks. In a double blind and randomized manner, subjects ingested a

placebo (P) or a supplement containing 300 mg androstenedione, 150 mg DHEA, 750 mg Tribulus

terrestris, 625 mg Chrysin, 300 mg Indole-3-carbinol, and 540 mg Saw palmetto (Andro-6) every day

during weeks 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, and 8 of training. Fasting blood samples were obtained prior to

supplementation and after 2, 5, and 8 weeks of supplementation. Body composition (via skinfolds and

hydrostatic weighing) and one-repetition maximum (1RM) upper and lower body strength tests were

determined at 0, 4, and 8 weeks of supplementation. In addition, muscle biopsies were obtained prior to

and following the supplementation/training interventions to assess changes in muscle fiber diameter.

Results revealed that chronic Andro-6 supplementation during training increased fasting androstenedione,

estradiol, and estrone levels while decreasing high-density lipoproteins (HDL) levels. No significant

differences were observed in LH, FSH, total testosterone, free testosterone, or estriol levels. Moreover,

no significant differences were observed between groups in changes in body composition, muscle fiber

diameter, or gains in 1RM strength. These findings suggest that ingesting Tribulus terrestris (750

mg/day) with other anabolic precursors does not significantly affect body composition or training

adaptations.

Bottom Line

Despite popular claims, there currently appears to be little if any data supporting the ergogenic value of

Tribulus terrestris supplementation for resistance-trained athletes. Additionally, studies that have

evaluated the ergogenic value of other anabolic precursors in younger athletes have shown little to no

benefit with some potentially dangerous side effects. My advice is to stay away from these types of

anabolic precursors unless recommended by your physician.

The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.

Human Performance Laboratory, University of Nebraska, Kearney, NE 68849-3101, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.

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Young Gun

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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:02 am Post subject:

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Taken from Iron Arena

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Young Gun

Musclechat Moderator

Joined: 19 Apr 2005

Posts: 1081

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:05 am Post subject:

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What's the scoop on ZMA? Does it work?

ZMA is a popular new supplement that claims to increase anabolic hormones and strength in athletes. What is the evidence for these claims of improving athletic performance and overall fitness?

How does ZMA work? (No, but we'll get to that later)

ZMA is a combination of two essential dietary minerals (zinc and maganesium) and vitamin B6. Zinc and magnesium are sometimes not adequately supplied in the diet, while vitamin B6 generally is. The zinc is in the chemical forms zinc methionine and aspartate; the magnesium is in the aspartate form.

There is no scientific evidence for any claim that ZMA has any effects beyond those of taking equivalent amounts of zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6 in any other form.

All of these substances are healthy and thus the combination will also be healthy so long as it is not overdosed.

Are there any side effects?

Possible side effects can arise from taking too much (overdosage).

Zinc: More than 50 mg daily often increases the need for dietary copper; more than 100 mg daily might cause toxic symptoms.

Magnesium: More than 1000 mg daily might cause diarrhea.

Vitamin B6: More than 200 mg per day may lead to peripheral neuropathy (nerve pain in the extremities).

What else do I need to know about ZMA?

A study claiming that ZMA increases anabolic hormones and strength in athletes was conducted by L. R. Brilla, Western Washington University, Bellingham, WA, and V. Conte, BALCO Laboratories, Burlingame, CA.

While their results show statistically significant differences between the ZMA and placebo groups following 8 weeks of intensive training (higher testosterone levels and greater increases in strength) -- the study was significantly flawed.

The beginning levels of zinc and magnesium in these athletes' blood were already low. (Average serum zinc was 0.82 mcg/ml; deficiency threshold is 0.7 mcg/ml. Average serum magnesium was 19.6 mcg/dl; deficiency threshold is 16 mcg/dl.)

Increased exercise raises the body's need for zinc in a variety of ways. The fact that levels of zinc and magnesium dropped in the control groups' blood (to 0.8 mcg/ml of zinc and 18.0 mcg/dl of magnesium) shows that the increased exercise had this expected effect.

So both groups needed more of these essential minerals, probably even before the intensive training, but only one group got it.

What happened here can be understood if one thinks about the normal diet eaten by "members of the University football team" (the study's subjects). Their diet is probably low in zinc, magnesium and B6, if not actually deficient -- which is probably true for most unsupplemented people in the US. High protein intake (undoubtedly consumed by these football players) increases the need for B6, and zinc is particularly important for protein (muscle) synthesis.


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## Guest (May 5, 2006)

I'll save my money then.

I've been training for a couple of years now and I'm in ok shape but I'm trying to break through the 14stone mark (proving difficult at the mo).

I wanted to try something close to/equal to dianabol etc but as I'm not a great fan of needles it would have to be in oral form (I know this is no way near as effective).

Is there anything out there that I can try until I get over my babyish fear of injecting?


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

Anavar or a legal oral aas (but they aren't good)

+ more i don't know much about

Nick


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

dianabol is an oral. There has been a recent discussion on this topic somewhere. I think turinabol is a good way to go although some disagreed with me strongly and their opinions are valuable.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

> I get over my babyish fear of injecting?


bollocks mate-i`m proud of the fact that i`m not gonna do needles!

for me oral toxicity just means you do short(infrequent) cycles and unless you start necking them like smarties shouldnt cause a problems.

buy some dbol and make your own mind up-thas what i did


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

I was also ridiculously scared of injecting. Its not that bad and eventually it becomes easy I think a good 40% of people are incredibly scared before they do.

I would just try and get over it whilst cal is right the effects are somewhat overstated its weighing a balance up between

fear personal issues in injecting/ benefit of better more effective cycles with less sides.

Its your choice I choose the latter option as I have no personal issues other than fear which just isn't important enough to me, in fact the fact that I'm afraid of something made me want to overcome it much more.


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## GALTONATOR1466867927 (Mar 31, 2006)

For a natural just eat the right stuff and train well and you will get good results. If your over 30 maybe give trib a go and zma always makes me sleeps like a log. Steroids are a personal choice. They work and thats a fact but id never want to got that route. With what ive learned over the years in confidant i can get the results i want my changing my diet and cardio


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## Guest (May 8, 2006)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is/was a bit dubious about injecting. I'm gunna do as much research as I can and weigh up the pros and cons with both injecting and oral intakes.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

mate there are alot of peeps out there who dont want to do needles-

i`m just more vocal than some 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)


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## Guest (May 14, 2006)

mate i dont mean any disrespect but you defintely need to do a lot of research ... dbol is a world away from "natural" test boosters. and if you can't face needles you prob aren't ready to be honest.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

well done handsome thats the first most important and most intelligent step. Your own research.

Remember to appraoch the issue as much from a point of safety and you approach it with a view to effectiveness. If you can overcome your fear of needles then that is 100% the way to go there is no other reason universally. You may have personal issues as Cal does which I respect but from a pure view of safety needles when used correctly are far safe being much less liver toxic.

If you need anymore advice feel free to PM me. Read the steroid sticky for some great info. Don't worry about injecting. I went from refusing my TB injection and throwing up at the thought of having to have an injection to managing a full cycle without any probs.

If I can do it I believe anyone who wants to can because I was team captain of the needle pussy club and I've managed it. I hated that I was afraid and that drove me more to be honest. Its all part of being a stubborn bastard which most weight lifters are.

In regards to your research. Take it one step at a time. browse the boards and begginners intors into gear and then post back here wityh parts that you are having trouble with and all the guys here will be happy to help and give you a range of perspectives.

Good luck buddy


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