# 5 x 5 Training



## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

So basically my gym buddy ( whos a bit of a slacker and is ****ed as im stronger than him ) is sort of forcing me into this 5 x 5 traing regime. Its basically all compound moves with very little isolation. Iv been traing for 5 years on and off and for the last 3 its been pretty much split into chest, legs, sholulders, back and arm days. The 5 x 5 which im sure you are all aware goes like this....

DAY 1

Squats

Bench

Rows

Abs

DAY 2

Squats

Deads

Military Press

Bears

DAY 3

Same as day one only its 4 x 5 followed by 1 x 3 then 1 x 8

Anyway ive done this all week but tbh im not feeling it and i want to go back to my usual routine which incorporates all the compound moves for each muscle group but adds in isolations.

Im currently on cycle so i dont want to waste my time? Or is the 5 x 5 a good routine. What you guys think and what would you do in my position? :cursing:


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

Why don't you say Madcows :L

Uhm, it's ok. But mate, you really REALLY cannot make gains on your deadlift on this, I'm doing it right now, and I can't deadlift at all now really. 5x5 is awesome, I'd go for Reg Park's beginner though if I were you! Don't bother with Madcows, it's ridiculous I think. I just feel bollocked all the time off it.


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## IronMaiden (Mar 31, 2010)

Hmmh, good thread as im interested in starting this type of thing again.

I kinda done this a few years back, i only starting up again as i had a bad injury and needed an operation.

I basically done 4 day split, which had all the compounds as the mains but i also included isolation in that day.

So for example i done Day 1 as Military press with lateral raises, Day 2 as Bench followed by flyes and incline press etc...

I kept the compounds to 5x5 and sometimes added an extra few sets to see what i could lift. The isolations i kept at 8-12 and done 3 sets.

I definalty found an increase in strength from this routine, definately! I think its a great routine but def put in those isolated excercises too.

Im no expert mate just my opinion and my experiece so far, if im wrong then i would like to hear others opinions too.

But you gotta enjoy what your doing, find a way to be motivated and change it up a bit if you dnt like it! cheers man


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

Madcows.. is that its name?? Is that what he has been saying all week lol?

My deadlift is already strong and so is the rest of my moves tbh. I dont no how your bench can improve tbh just doin 5 sets of 5 on the flat bench once a week! My chest day starts on incline, flys, decline and maybe just for an ego massage il do a bit of flat bench. I think for a change its ok but its not for me. But he is loving it and is actually wanting to go to the gym these days so il feel bad letting him down.


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

deep85 said:


> Madcows.. is that its name?? Is that what he has been saying all week lol?
> 
> My deadlift is already strong and so is the rest of my moves tbh. I dont no how you bench can improve tbh just doin 5 sets of 5 on the flat bench once a week! My chest day starts on incline, flys, decline and maybe just for an ego massage il do a bit of flat bench. I think for a change its ok but its not for me. But he is loving it and is actually wanting to go to the gym these days so il feel bad letting him down.


Well. I wont say my deadlift gains because I haven't made any on Madcows, but heres my Squat, OHP and Bench gains. All for 5 reps.

Squat - 115KG>142.5KG

Bench - 90KG>100KG

OHP - 40KG>50KG

Rows - 70KG>82.5KG


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

IronMaiden said:


> Hmmh, good thread as im interested in starting this type of thing again.
> 
> I kinda done this a few years back, i only starting up again as i had a bad injury and needed an operation.
> 
> ...


Yeah i can see the benefit in doing the 5 x 5 but i would like to do what you said and incorporate isolations into it. My shoulders dont feel worked after 5 sets of the military press. I need some lat raises, front raises etc.. Same for my chest! I need some inclne and flys to get the pumped and feel like iv had a good workout. Il have to run it by him 2morrow


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## IronMaiden (Mar 31, 2010)

JoePro said:


> Well. I wont say my deadlift gains because I haven't made any on Madcows, but heres my Squat, OHP and Bench gains. All for 5 reps.
> 
> Squat - 115KG>142.5KG
> 
> ...


Hey joe are these gains all measured as your 1RM? im not soo sure how they are measured and how i should be doing mine. Soz if it sounds like i hijacking thread. thanks


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

JoePro said:


> Well. I wont say my deadlift gains because I haven't made any on Madcows, but heres my Squat, OHP and Bench gains. All for 5 reps.
> 
> Squat - 115KG>142.5KG
> 
> ...


How many weeks did this take? Its not the 5 x 5 that im against cause i can actually see and feel the benefit in it but id like to incorporate the 5 x 5 routine into my chest day or back day fr instance like iron maiden said


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## IronMaiden (Mar 31, 2010)

deep85 said:


> Yeah i can see the benefit in doing the 5 x 5.....


Yeh i totally agree with you, i need to feel it to be satisfied. Apart from feeling worked gets me motivated and focused too.


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

IronMaiden said:


> Hey joe are these gains all measured as your 1RM? im not soo sure how they are measured and how i should be doing mine. Soz if it sounds like i hijacking thread. thanks


IronMaiden - These are my 5RM, I would suggest measuring your 1RM instead, but I haven't been to a 1RM in ages.

Deep85 - This is about 8 weeks progress, I used to be strong in the past, I took some time off, but my gains were never this high. my 1RM used to be 142.5 for squats, and 100kg Bench was out of reach.

Overall, I'd suggest a google of Wendlers 5/3/1 and follow the main pattern of the Waves on that for your main lifts, and then add in accessory work with 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps.

My routine for the next few months is like that.


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

Thats pretty good going for 8 weeks! Im having a look into the Wendlers 5/3/1 now


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## IronMaiden (Mar 31, 2010)

same im checking it out now, thanks guys


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

No problem.

Wendlers is good with loads of assistance, or with little assistance. That's why I like it.. And well, I'd like more really, thats why I'm changing to Wendlers so I can really target my deadlift, it's lower than my squat.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2011)

Alot of these 5x5 and 'more basic' routines take some time to get used to. You arnt feeling it yet, because your not pushing 100% on those 5 sets. Subconsciously, your still holding back, waiting for the following 3 or 4 compounds or isolations.

When you realise to make the most of it, you need to be pushing yourself to the limit from the 3rd set onwards, youll feel it.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

mikex101 said:


> Alot of these 5x5 and 'more basic' routines take some time to get used to. You arnt feeling it yet, because your not pushing 100% on those 5 sets. Subconsciously, your still holding back, waiting for the following 3 or 4 compounds or isolations.
> 
> When you realise to make the most of it, you need to be pushing yourself to the limit from the 3rd set onwards, youll feel it.


agreed with mike on this you really need to push yourself i worked it out on 80% of 1rm after 4 weeks i pushed myself on doing my 1rms then i added 5-10kg across the lifts so my it makes it that bit harder , there is an old addage ......no pain no gain !


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

JoePro said:


> Why don't you say Madcows :L
> 
> Uhm, it's ok. But mate, *you really REALLY cannot make gains on your deadlift on this, I'm doing it right now, and I can't deadlift at all now really*. 5x5 is awesome, I'd go for Reg Park's beginner though if I were you! Don't bother with Madcows, it's ridiculous I think. I just feel bollocked all the time off it.


this is completely wrong, majorly... imho I would look at your form or something else youre doing wrong... I have made huge gains in my deadlift on this (50kg and climbing) and rate madcows completely...

to the OP if you want to gain strength over hypertrophy (althought it will give some of that too just not huge amounts) then a 5x5 style is good to go... but tbh if your goals differ from the training partners maybe its time to find a new partner...??


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

Greyphantom said:


> this is completely wrong, majorly... imho I would look at your form or something else youre doing wrong... I have made huge gains in my deadlift on this (50kg and climbing) and rate madcows completely...
> 
> to the OP if you want to gain strength over hypertrophy (althought it will give some of that too just not huge amounts) then a 5x5 style is good to go... but tbh if your goals differ from the training partners maybe its time to find a new partner...??


I have good form, really good form. But my deads are not going up. I started doing a 1x3 on a Wednesday at the end of them to try and boost it a little.


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

Add some assistance lifts. I throw in calf raises, side lat raises, CGBP and db curls. either 2/3 x 8. Higher on calfs.


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

jsut an update on this for anyone who is interested...

Ive continued with the 5x5 routine 4 days a week but iv aslo added in isolations etc.. Raises, flys, inlcine etc but for each muscle group iv stuck with the comound 5 x5 as the base work out. Its the end of week 3 now

My bench had plateaued at 105kg and iv been doing tht for 4 + months now.

Anyway with the 5 x5 i dropped by bench to 95 kg and carried on with 5x5 at 95, 1 x 3 at 110 and 1 x 8 at 85 to finish

3 weeks in and im doing the 5 x 5 at 110kg 1 x 3 122.5 kg an finishin with 95. Its not just my bench but all my compound lifts have went up.

Something must be working!


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

deep85 said:


> jsut an update on this for anyone who is interested...
> 
> Ive continued with the 5x5 routine 4 days a week but iv aslo added in isolations etc.. Raises, flys, inlcine etc but for each muscle group iv stuck with the comound 5 x5 as the base work out. Its the end of week 3 now
> 
> ...


4day 5x5? Please post.

Also, I'd suggest sticking to something that is really tried and tested. But go on.


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

JoePro said:


> 4day 5x5? Please post.
> 
> Also, I'd suggest sticking to something that is really tried and tested. But go on.


Heres my routine.. And when i say 4 days it works out day on day off and i believe the 5 x 5 is tried and tested as its basically compound moves, how more tried and tested would you like lol anyway heres my routine and remember there is a rest day between each and feel free to criticise. Oh and i throw abs in every day

*Day 1 Chest*

Flat Bench 5 x 5, 1 x 3, 1 x 8 ( look at last post forweights etc used)

Flys 3 x 8

Incline 3 x 8 ( someweeks will do decline instead)

*Day 2 Legs/ Tris*

Squat 5 x 5 , 1 x 3 (heavier squat) 1x 8 (lighter squat)

quad extension 3 x 8 quad extension

Calf Raises 3 x 12

Front squat 3 x 12

Tris

CGB 5 x 5

weighted dips to failure

Skull Crunchers 3 x 8

*Day 3 Back*

Deads 5 x 5, 1 x 3 heavier deads 1 to failure lighter deads

Bent Over Row 5 x5 , 1 x 3, 1 x 8

Weighted Overhand Pull ups x failure

T Bar Rows 3 x 6-8

*Day 4 Shoulder, Bi's *

Military Press Standing 5x5, 1x3, 1 x8

Side Raises 3 x 8

Front Raises 3 x 8

Shrugs front and rear 3 x 12, 1 x failure

Bis

Preacher Curls 3 x 8

Straight Bar 3 x 6

Hammer Curls 3 x 12

Close Grip Chin Ups failure.

Takes about 60-90mins per workout but i have the time to do it and the weight and strength is piling on.

What you think?


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

deep85 said:


> Heres my routine.. And when i say 4 days it works out day on day off and i believe the 5 x 5 is tried and tested as its basically compound moves, how more tried and tested would you like lol anyway heres my routine and remember there is a rest day between each and feel free to criticise. Oh and i throw abs in every day
> 
> *Day 1 Chest*
> 
> ...


It's not too bad!

I'd change some things though, triceps with chest, and legs on their own. Bi's with shoulders are fine though mate.

I always do my back and legs on their own because they're the hardest things to do, so many components if you want to say that.

Look up Wendler's 5/3/1 man.


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## deep85 (Aug 11, 2010)

JoePro said:


> It's not too bad!
> 
> I'd change some things though, triceps with chest, and legs on their own. Bi's with shoulders are fine though mate.
> 
> ...


Up untill i started this i did do my tris with chest but i found by the time i got round to my tris they were already tired from my chest so i thought id shake things up a bit. My workout had come to a bit of a stalemate as progress was extremly slow so i needed a change!

Im googling Wendlers 5/3/1 now as shaking you routine up on a regular basis seems to work! I want to crack a 150 bench lol. Thanks for advice


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

deep85 said:


> Up untill i started this i did do my tris with chest but i found by the time i got round to my tris they were already tired from my chest so i thought id shake things up a bit. My workout had come to a bit of a stalemate as progress was extremly slow so i needed a change!
> 
> Im googling Wendlers 5/3/1 now as shaking you routine up on a regular basis seems to work! I want to crack a 150 bench lol. Thanks for advice


Well I'd do Triceps with shoulders then man, only one press for Shoulders on a normal routine you'd be fresh for your triceps, and then go on biceps with chest.

And Wendlers is class if you want to get up to 150 mate! I'm at 100 on Bench for 5 reps now, so I'm going to Wendlers to get to 150.. for a meet in the later year!


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## PharmaSay (Jun 9, 2010)

deep85 said:


> Heres my routine.. And when i say 4 days it works out day on day off and i believe the 5 x 5 is tried and tested as its basically compound moves, how more tried and tested would you like lol anyway heres my routine and remember there is a rest day between each and feel free to criticise. Oh and i throw abs in every day
> 
> *Day 1 Chest*
> 
> ...


I think the original plan was way better in terms of design. The original plan when periodised correctly and performed at required intesity would be great at improving power/strength.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

i agree with pharma say ive made great leaps in strength off the basic 5x5 routine ive never been bigger or stronger .


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## JohnStubbs (Oct 19, 2010)

3 x 5 is better than 5 x 5. You will stall quicker on 5 x 5 and be totally f'ucked soon. 5 x 5 squats 3 times a week is too much.


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

uhan said:


> i agree with pharma say ive made great leaps in strength off the basic 5x5 routine ive never been bigger or stronger .


You know me Uhan.. I'm all about 5x5 mate.


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## PharmaSay (Jun 9, 2010)

3x5/5x5 who really cares all that much ? The important issue is heavy compound work and little or no isolation

5x5 makes you stall quicker, then change your periodisation to account for this; shorter waves etc


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

I quite like 3x5 with last set going for as many reps as possible sort of like wendlers 5/3/1


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

Hmm, I like 3x5 too, but I think 5x5 is good aslong as your ramping, I don't like it when it's like 5x5 of the same weight. I think it blows.

I have only stalled once while on 5x5, but I'm starting to stall again now so I'm going to Wendlers. I've deloaded once and now I've been back training like 3-4 weeks since my deload and it's going slow as hell with any gains and I'm just not making it any further. Maybe 3x5 would be better!


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

JoePro said:


> Hmm, I like 3x5 too, but I think 5x5 is good aslong as your ramping, I don't like it when it's like 5x5 of the same weight. I think it blows.
> 
> I have only stalled once while on 5x5, but I'm starting to stall again now so I'm going to Wendlers. I've deloaded once and now I've been back training like 3-4 weeks since my deload and it's going slow as hell with any gains and I'm just not making it any further. Maybe 3x5 would be better!


When picking your pecentages did you do there absed off 90% of your 1rm, not your 1rm?

Ive had a massive delaod lately on all lifts, i dont think wendler actually lifts his 5/3/1

He picks a weight he wants to lift that day and does it for as many reps as he wants, or so thats how im understanding it following his trianing log on elitefts

Something similar to what im doing now and it seems to be working well when im not feeling like crap


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## JoePro (Aug 26, 2009)

MarkFranco said:


> When picking your pecentages did you do there absed off 90% of your 1rm, not your 1rm?
> 
> Ive had a massive delaod lately on all lifts, i dont think wendler actually lifts his 5/3/1
> 
> ...


Uhm, I don't even know my 1RM mate, I haven't been to a max in ages, next week is the end of my Madcows so I'm gonna' do it next week on a Friday instead of 1x3, 1x1.

And I haven't been on EliteFTS in time so I wouldn't know! I'm sure it's working for him either way. He made 5/3/1 for Beginners/intermediate's who want a change I think.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2011)

ok so not 5x5 but i made tremendous gains when i trained all the basoc excercises three days a week with the work set being 2 x 5 reps

flat bench, incline bench, hammer press shoulders, b/neck militarry press, deadlifts...(no squat)

on tuesdays and thursdays i threw in some more specific movements for arms, shoulders and back and WOW my strength rocketed doing this....

currently training one body part a day again but mate and i are gonna throw in a week of the old 5 rep programme once every three weeks


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## switch (Jan 5, 2011)

All th basic compound excersizes are awesome with any rep range IMO - I currently mix 5x5 mon and fri and a 4 x 15 on wednsday, this has really given me a kick and can do the work much easier on Mon and Fri 

If your going to stick with 5x5 it must be a progressive program so every visit either add reps or weight


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

ive been doing 5x5 for a while now with great results i should have started a journal but couldn't be assed lol guys in the gym say im looking leaner even though ive put weight on and am now 17 stone ive never been bigger or stronger so not sure what routine to try next or i may just carry on 5x5 hmmm .


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