# Incorporating a Deload, DNP & Mini-cut



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey all,

Was wondering what people think of the following...

I currently do PPL 2x per week alongside a refeed diet where I keep the macros identical for 6 days and then have a huge clean refeed on Saturdays.

Obviously training 6x per week is not easy and though currently I am coping absolutely fine, I know in the coming weeks I may feel symptoms of over-training and burn myself out.

I've devised the following plan...



*6 weeks* - PPL 2x per week + carb refeed diet + cardio to the point where I don't feel burned out (Aim is to pack on lean quality muscle mass)


*2 weeks* - PPL 1x per week + carb cycling diet + reduction in carbs + increased cardio + DNP (Aim is to lose body-fat & maintain current lifts)


For anyone that is interested, my weight roughly 8 weeks ago was fluctuating between 86kg-88kg. I weighed myself on Thursday and Saturday and came in at 96kg. Body-fat appears to be reasonable as well.

I would also like to add that I do 11 cardio sessions per week. 5 of these are 1 hour long in a fasted state and 6 of them are 30 minutes long post-workout. I normally get criticized on this board for over-training and doing far too much cardio but I really do think I've made it work 

Latest pic...


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Evening bump :whistling:


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh you do make me laugh! (In a good way, not at you!)

Firstly, as you've said before you can be reluctant to change your ways

Secondly, you look better than a large proportion of people on here so you must be doing something very right!

I presume your not a natty but even with gear I can't even begin to imagine the hard work and effort you've spent to get where you are now.

As for your reply to your post, have you plateau'd with your lifting ? If so a Deload wouldn't be a bad idea.

As for DNP ...... Do you really think you need it? If you've not used it before you need to know it causes you to look really flat (drains all glycogen from your muscles) and going from you previous posts I reckon this alone would drive you insane! Plus with your diet , I think you'd be close to out eating the benefits of dnp.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Absolutely no need for DNP in that condition.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

paul xe said:


> Oh you do make me laugh! (In a good way, not at you!)
> 
> Firstly, as you've said before you can be reluctant to change your ways
> 
> ...


I haven't plateau'd mate but every session I do is always balls to the wall. I know eventually I will burn out and it's happened before in the past. I just thought that cycling my training every 6 weeks may be a good idea. When I do get burned out, it literally renders me disabled and kind of demotivates me from training completely. I become extremely lazy and literally just collapse straight into bed everyday after work lol.

I'm considering this as more of preventative protocol 

I've used DNP before by the way. Looked flat as f*ck but when I came off I filled out nicely and now look like this. The only mistake I made running DNP last time was that I think I ran it a little too long which set my hunger into overdrive. I was eating carbs like a maniac. I didn't put on any weight but at the point I wasn't losing much fat either. I also think I trained far too much and too hard whilst on DNP last time which I don't think I'll be doing again.



L11 said:


> Absolutely no need for DNP in that condition.


Even if I want to achieve better condition than this? :whistling:


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

I see your point and I think for you that would be a good idea, like you said as a preventative measure. You don't grow in the gym so a deload would give your body the much needed rest to grow!

How long and what dose were you on last time? I've ran 125mg/16 hours for 17 days and 125mg/12 hours for 12 days and the lower dose was much easier to deal with in terms of sides although by the end of it I was glad to get to day 17!

Maybe doing a lower dose would help prevent you from going on a carb binge and allow you to train at similar intensity to normal?

Even so, I'm inclined to agree with @L11 with regards to DNP not being needed.

Out of interest, what are you goals?


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Contest said:


> Even if I want to achieve better condition than this? :whistling:


Yes. I'd consider eca, Yohimbine, or clen way before dnp if I was in your condition, you've got hardly any fat to lose, but a lot of muscle, don't see why you'd choose such a drastic measure.

Are you planning on competing?


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

paul xe said:


> I see your point and I think for you that would be a good idea, like you said as a preventative measure. You don't grow in the gym so a deload would give your body the much needed rest to grow!
> 
> How long and what dose were you on last time? I've ran 125mg/16 hours for 17 days and 125mg/12 hours for 12 days and the lower dose was much easier to deal with in terms of sides although by the end of it I was glad to get to day 17!
> 
> ...


Goals are simple when mentioning but near enough impossible when trying to achieve lol.

Gain as much lean muscle mass as possible, whilst retaining the lowest body-fat % all year round.

The first time I ran DNP I used it at 250mg and lasted about 4 days I was sweating so bad lol. This was in the winter as well. Recently I used 250mg and managed OK. Even bumped it up to 500mg but that's when I started feeling extremely lethargic and the hunger just went insane. Managed 5 weeks on DNP.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

L11 said:


> Yes. I'd consider eca, Yohimbine, or clen way before dnp if I was in your condition, you've got hardly any fat to lose, but a lot of muscle, don't see why you'd choose such a drastic measure.
> 
> Are you planning on competing?


If I'm comfortable with my proportions, size and conditioning, my plan is to compete next year mate.

*Yohimbine* - Is this still being sold? I can't find it no where.

*ECA* - The Aspirin doesn't agree with my stomach and for some reason I p*ss so much when using ECA. I know it acts as a diuretic but I'm literally going to the toilet every 30 minutes. Not too much of a problem but the loss in water seems to give me some extremely harsh back and forearms pumps to the point where it's unbearable on leg and back days.

*Clen* - I've used Clen only a few times but have never really noticed anything from it? Don't really know where its worth it or am I just running it wrong.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

dnp is safer than clen imo, but cannot see how you are going to keep your lifts high no chance.

maybe read more in to diet if you wanna drop that last bit of fat on your stomach. although dnp will of course do that as well.

some insane cardio etc going on lol

keep enjoying it


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Contest said:


> If I'm comfortable with my proportions, size and conditioning, my plan is to compete next year mate.
> 
> *Yohimbine* - Is this still being sold? I can't find it no where.
> 
> ...


possibly how did you run it?

clen is great with clean diet and cardio and T3 as well.

eg

Clen day 1 40mg

day 2 40mg

day 3 40-60mg assess shake

day 4 80mg

etc etc reasses sides and up dose.

not to high though you dont want to have a heart attack

yohimbine google it and it will probably be a website from canada get a couple of tubs although im sure if you have a good source you might find it available on the UGL market. rohm thermo lipid has it in for example


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Contest said:


> If I'm comfortable with my proportions, size and conditioning, my plan is to compete next year mate.
> 
> *Yohimbine* - Is this still being sold? I can't find it no where.
> 
> ...


Yea Yohimbine is definitely still about, I found it a couple of days ago

Eca does work without the aspirin, at least it does for me anyway..

Clen, never tried it myself but from what I've ready on many forums the tolerance level can vary dramatically. I'm guessing you weigh a lot, and would probably need a high dose.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

In my opinion u have an awesome physique, constantly progressing and have found a decent groove in training. You should be the one dishing out the advice lol. In all honesty though if u want to tweak everything that little bit better at ur stage maybe hire an experienced coach.

I for one wouldn't feel right offering you any advice.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> possibly how did you run it?
> 
> clen is great with clean diet and cardio and T3 as well.
> 
> ...


I started off on like 200mcg and worked my way up to something like 320mcg but still did not find it impressive. The only thing I felt from it was cramping lol.



L11 said:


> Yea Yohimbine is definitely still about, I found it a couple of days ago
> 
> Eca does work without the aspirin, at least it does for me anyway..
> 
> Clen, never tried it myself but from what I've ready on many forums the tolerance level can vary dramatically. I'm guessing you weigh a lot, and would probably need a high dose.


I've used ECA without the aspirin myself mate but the issue of p*ssing like a race horse never goes away lol. I used EC more for its stimulatory effects though during my morning fasted cardio.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Contest said:


> I started off on like 200mcg and worked my way up to something like 320mcg but still did not find it impressive. The only thing I felt from it was cramping lol.
> 
> I've used ECA without the aspirin myself mate but the issue of p*ssing like a race horse never goes away lol. I used EC more for its stimulatory effects though during my morning fasted cardio.


wtf LOL what brand was that. 200mcg to start you mad head&#8230;.. 120mcg of say dhacks or AP Clen is probably enough for me and i am the same weight as you.

was it chinese generics?


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

320mg of Clen?!

OK I'm out.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> possibly how did you run it?
> 
> clen is great with clean diet and cardio and T3 as well.
> 
> ...





Sambuca said:


> wtf LOL what brand was that. 200mcg to start you mad head&#8230;.. 120mcg of say dhacks or AP Clen is probably enough for me and i am the same weight as you.
> 
> was it chinese generics?


Have used, Chinese, AP and Kaizen. Its all legit stuff as my mates were cramping up on only 40mcg-80mcg. I literally felt nothing though and only cramped up after 260mcg+ and that was during the last few days of a 2 week cycle. Was getting cramps in the oddest places; hands, feet, toes and jaw lol.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

L11 said:


> 320mg of Clen?!
> 
> OK I'm out.


not uncommon with chinese generics but if it was decent clen im surprised he is still alive


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Contest said:


> Have used, Chinese, AP and Kaizen. Its all legit stuff as my mates were cramping up on only 40mcg-80mcg. I literally felt nothing though and only cramped up after 260mcg+ and that was during the last few days of a 2 week cycle. Was getting cramps in the oddest places; hands, feet, toes and jaw lol.


if u took 320mcg of ap clen you are mad haha. my heart would of exploded 5 point exploding heart technique style


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

L11 said:


> 320mg of Clen?!
> 
> OK I'm out.


An old UKM member named Ausbuilt posted some study on how the NHS were trialling Clen and had patients use up to 400mcg.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Contest said:


> An old UKM member named Ausbuilt posted some study on how the NHS were trialling Clen and had patients use up to 400mcg.


ye i remember reading that. trialling is the key word there


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Sambuca said:


> ye i remember reading that. trialling is the key word there


I think this may be it Harefield protocol

The max dose was 720mcg lol.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Contest said:


> I think this may be it Harefield protocol
> 
> The max dose was 720mcg lol.


I remember that well. Bear in mind that they slowly built up to that dose and were carefully monitored during the trial.

I think it would be extremely unwise to consider a massive dose like that.

Clen scares me even more than DNP. And yes - I have used both so am speaking from personal experience.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> I remember that well. Bear in mind that they slowly built up to that dose and were carefully monitored during the trial.
> 
> I think it would be extremely unwise to consider a massive dose like that.
> 
> Clen scares me even more than DNP. And yes - I have used both so am speaking from personal experience.


Won't argue with you there mate 

Even with all the recent reported deaths, you're still more scared of Clen than DNP lol.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Contest said:


> Won't argue with you there mate
> 
> *Even with all the recent reported deaths, you're still more scared of Clen than DNP* lol.


Well, that's the odd thing.. DNP may kill you more or less outright (i.e. cook you alive) if you screw up the dose. But I think that clen is more dangerous because I think that it negatively (or can negatively) affects the heart. Thus death may not be immediate, but perhaps damage is nevertheless being done in some insidious way. In my case clen gives me heart palpitations, which I'm sure cannot be a good thing.

Perhaps I'm talking pure BS, so please don't call me out for broscience. Mars definitely considers clen to be dangerous, and he knows his sh1t.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Bull Terrier said:


> Well, that's the odd thing.. DNP may kill you more or less outright (i.e. cook you alive) if you screw up the dose. But I think that clen is more dangerous because I think that it negatively (or can negatively) affects the heart. Thus death may not be immediate, but perhaps damage is nevertheless being done in some insidious way. In my case clen gives me heart palpitations, which I'm sure cannot be a good thing.
> 
> Perhaps I'm talking pure BS, so please don't call me out for broscience. Mars definitely considers clen to be dangerous, and he knows his sh1t.


You're not the only one mate. A few of my friends suffered from heart palpitations whilst using Clen as well.


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## paul xe (Sep 24, 2011)

Another one here had pulps on clen. I feel better on DNP than I ever did on clen and like @Bull Terrier said it's really only when you screw up the does than you cook where as on clen I gradually increased the dose and still felt bad on 80mcg which is around or under what most people take.


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## sl0 (May 13, 2014)

Sorry for digging this thread up but I was thinking of doing something similar (a cut with DNP on the deload week of 531) and wanted to know how this went for you @Contest?


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## asymptotic (Feb 7, 2019)

i know this is a very old thread, but interested in deloading with dnp myself and wondering how it panned out. deloading while cutting doesnt make a huge deal of sense in general, but dnp doesnt seem to put much stress on the cns relative to alot of things.
been considering coupling it with insulin, carnitine and phosphatidylserine to keep cortisol lower. making it potentially less taxing on the cns than just lowering cals. just concerned how the toxicity plays into cns stress.

im also toying with the idea that the speed of fat loss with dnp tends to mean you spend less time cutting per year, which again lends itself to less taxation on the cns and maybe less time deloading per year.

anyways. theres no real way to know whether dnp is a valid choice on a deload without actual actually doing it. so would be good to get your feedback on how it went


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