# losing weight and gaining muscle a simple guide



## Tinytom

I thought Id post an article seeing as Ive had a few emails about this.

Firstly lets be clear when Im talking about my own experiences Im talking about a competitive athlete and all the ancillaries that would be used such as Gear, GH, T3 and the like.

Now while I do use performance enhancers the premise of what I will go into is the same for all, its how you adapt yourself to the plan that will dictate your results.

Basic Overview

The way to structure this type of plan means you need to take into account a few theories. Im not saying these are beyond questioning but its the plan I follow.

The way I structure my week is as follows

MOnday - Training day

Tuesday - Rest Day

Wed - Training Day

Thursday - Rest day/Kickboxing

Friday - Training

Saturday - Rest/cardio

Sunday - Rest

I follow a split over 2 weeks and I split my training as such.

Chest

Back/Traps

Delts

Quads/calfs

Hams/calfs

Arms

So 6 days training only 3 days per week.

This gives a typical training split as such over 2 weeks

Mon - Quads

Wed - Back

Fri - Delts

Mon - Hams

Wed - Chest

Fri - Arms

Then on the 3rd week you restart with a different bodypart. So the next 2 weeks could look like this

Mon - Back

Wed - Quads

Fri - Delts

Mon - Hams

Wed - Chest

Fri - Arms

but any combination is possible

The reason for this set up is

- More rest and growth

- More variation in training protocol and so more variation in stimulus

- No over training

Now I know what you are thinking, how can I possibly grow only training 3 days a week and only training each bodypart every 2 weeks?

Well on traditional training yes but now think about hitting each bodypart HARD every 2 weeks. for example how about this for a chest workout

Pec Dec - 5 sets, 20 reps

DB Press - 4 sets 20 reps x 3 10 reps x 1

Cable Crossovers superset - 20 reps high 20 reps low

Bench Flyes - 20 reps 3 sets

Press Flyes (5 press, 5 flyes, 5 press, 5 flyes) 3 sets

Bech press machine 30 reps x 5 50%Max.

Thats what I did last week. I got the 70 kg DBs up for 7 on the last set of pressing, I did 40kg on cables. So as you can see I dont do 'light wieghts' when I train. I just do MORE reps.

Now you can imagine this type of training can burn a hell of a lot of calories and also stimulate muscle growth. BUT if you were to do this for each bodypart and train a whole body in a week you'd lose muscle from over training.

Therefore you can see the reason for splitting down the training over 2 weeks?

Make sense?

Right now apply that to all your workouts.

Diet

Now think of this. When does your body repair and restore your muscles.

- in the gym?

- before training on training days?

- After training?

- On days when you dont exert yourself physically?

When would you build a house? When you are busy doing other things or when you had a bit of free time?

Now apply this rule of thought to diet. Therefore you would need the most calories on days that you rest in order to provide adequate repair nutrients.

Now when you think about

losing weight - less calories

Gaining muscle - more calories

So logically wouldnt you want to restrict calories on days you were making the most energy be burnt - Training days

and fill up on days you rest - Rest days

Anyone around the game for long enough will tel you that its the food you eat on the days before training that fuel your training.

So logically say you had a high calories day on a rest day and trained the day after you would have all the glycogen you needed but would be running a deficit which would facilitate fat burning?

Therefore my diet is structured as such off season

Monday - Training - Low calorie day

Tuesday - Rest and Recovery - High Calorie day

Wed - Training - Low calorie

Thursday - Rest/kickboxing - High calorie

Fri - Training low calorie

Sat - Rest/Cheat day

Sun - Rest/ medium calorie day

SO you can see there are 3 low calorie days and 3 high calorie days and 1 medium day.

SO around 40% of your week is in deficit while 60% is concentrated towards muscle recovery.

SO how would a typical low day look

8am - 70g Oats, 20g Peanut Butter, 50g Protein shake

11am - 200g chicken, 70g Rice or a baked potato 10ml Olive oil

2pm - Same as 11am

4pm - Extreme Mass (40g oats, 40g protein)

5.30pm - Train

7pm - WHey and carb shake

10pm - 8 egg whites 3 yolks, wholemeal toast

High Day will be same as above but I increase the carb weight at each meal by 30g.

I also have as many fruit as I like on any day as fruit has important antioxidant and vitamin properties.

So none of this is really hard to do, of course you can subtitute different meats or carbs if you like.

Thats all I can write for tonite but I will update with supplement and vitamin rotations tomorrow


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## Hunter84

Good stuff, very informative!!

And I like Analogys :thumbup1:


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## wes

Interesting, reps

but to clarify something are you on a calorie deficit on the low days.?


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## hilly

good post, their are many ways to skin a cat and this is a pretty good approach id say especially for people who dont have the time to be in the gym 5/6/7 days a week.


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## McQueen

Many thanks for this post.


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## jcsnoop

great read thanks TT


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## EDDIE.H

cheers for this post, keep up with the good work mate.


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## coldo

Good read, reppage.


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## dixie normus

nice post Tom

What's the reasoning on low cals on training days? Most would have their higher cal days when training as the energy can be utilised.


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## Tinytom

dixie normus said:


> nice post Tom
> 
> What's the reasoning on low cals on training days? Most would have their higher cal days when training as the energy can be utilised.


read through again mate. you create an artificially high deficit on training days so that your body is forced to go to fat stores for energy.

then the next day you load up to recover.

also the carbs you eat on the day PRIOR to training gives you the fuel for training not what you eat on the day. therefore as long as you eat proper on the refuel days you will have energy for training.

will post vitamins and supps schedule for anti catabolic action tomorrow.


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## bigbob33

Great post tom!


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## Virtus

Great read, cheers tom


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## donggle

great this tom. repped.


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## cecil_sensation

brillent post. noted all that is said, its certainly put me in my place


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## leonface

What would you do for your cheat day? Is that a mid cal day with a single cheat meal? If so, what could the cheat meal be?


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## bowen86

reps for being a legend!


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## Tinytom

Oliver - wasnt about putting anyone in their place as TBH your reply on that thread was logical.

But when you think outside normal thinking for a while you can make some great things happen.

regards a cheat day personally on a saturday I dont eat much, normally I have a big nandos and a curry later on thats about it.

The major aspect of this system os more about spiking the metabolism.

On a training day you spike it with training.

On a refuel day you spike it with carbs.

I'll put some more stuff up on vitamins etc later. Got some meetings with the bank and lease payment company for the gym to attend today.


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## Tinytom

Vitamin and Mineral and supplement schedule

So I said id update with this.

This isnt complex at all.

The body makes most of its repair work when its asleep and so I take ALL my vits and minerals before bed.

My nighttime vit schedule is as such

1000mg Vit C

800iu Vitamin E

Multivitamin

1500mg Evening Primrose

5000mg EPA fish oil

2 Cissus Capsules

Vitamin b complex

I also take 10g BCAA and 10g Glutamine and 10g Amino complex

So a LOT of pills and capsules all in one go but TBH Im not bothered about that as I always have a good nights sleep and wake up refreshed.

When training hard you should take in extra vitamins and minerals so that you replace anti oxidants and essential minerals so that your body can grow properly.

I also like to have a GH shot before bed ONLY on training days. Ive found this method works better than everyday dosing.

Im not using insulin at the moment I only use it with MGF now as Im so carb sensitive that I dont need extra slin going in.

I also have a 25mcg T3 pill on training days with the gh shot so that recovery can be increased due to a higher metabolism. I ONLY take t3 on training days before bed.

Pre workout I have

10g BCAA

10g Glutamine

6capsules Kre Alkalyn

all Extreme nutrition brand.

The extra aminos are meant to help anticatabolic action in the body and also aid recovery at night.


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## Titchy Dan

Exellent post Tom, the theory seems to be there at any rate. I can fully see the point in the 2 week split, but maybe there are guys on the forum (me included) who would be worried leaving it so long without training a certain body part?


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## xzx

That is one fantastic post Tom. You reasoning is very simple yet very obvious and no doubt very effective. Reps


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## Tinytom

Titchy Dan said:


> Exellent post Tom, the theory seems to be there at any rate. I can fully see the point in the 2 week split, but maybe there are guys on the forum (me included) who would be worried leaving it so long without training a certain body part?


understandable seeing as its been drilled in that you need to stimulate muscle etc etc.

seriously though ive never grown so quickly using this routine and ive not changed the gear i use at all so its not that.

try it for 3 months and see. you can have so much of a better workout when you are not worrying about having to save up energy for a session later on in the week.


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## scaff19

cheers tom i have been trainging for the past 18 months and enjoying every min just think my routine need changing as i feel i have stoped gaining had a read through the thread and im gonna give it a go cheers for the info and advice although my post are low i pop on evey day an have a read cheers


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## Hunter84

Sticky! :clap:


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## scaff19

callingcard said:


> Sticky! :clap:


 Six footer, blue eyes, shaved head and really, really nasty!!

thats a good pic then mate :thumbup1: :beer:


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## Hunter84

scaff19 said:


> Six footer, blue eyes, shaved head and really, really nasty!!
> 
> thats a good pic then mate :thumbup1: :beer:


Having My mug shot as my avatar could risk changing the theme of the website from BB to internet dating :whistling: :laugh:


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## Scrappy

Top post tom excellent! Ive been doing the same split, similar to what youve posted before, made great gains, extra recovery is just what i needed, along with higher carb days on rest days, works gr8 for me


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## vandangos

great post but the example you have given for your chest day has quite a few exercises within it, how can you do this many for hams? without hitting the quads.


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## Tinytom

vandangos said:


> great post but the example you have given for your chest day has quite a few exercises within it, how can you do this many for hams? without hitting the quads.


Lying Leg curls 5 sets 20 reps

Romanian deadlifts BB - 4 sets 15 reps

Single leg curls (can be done on quad extension machine if no single leg curl machine available, ive posted a video on Umuscle of how to do it)

Stiff leg deads with DBs - 4 sets 20 reps

Duck Press (high and wide leg press that hits the hams) 4 sets 20 reps.

thats what I do normally albeit on different combinations.

Also dont be afraid of chucking in some super sets such as Leg curl/leg extension or lunges after deads.

Such things will only work to stimulate the antagonist muscle in the exercise and because you will only do a few sets it wont fatigue the muscle greatly.


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## hungryshark

quality post Tom reps


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## Tinytom

example back day as trained today

standing cable rows - 4 sets 15 reps (100kg max weight)

Partial dead lifts - 4 sets 10 reps 100kg, 180kg, 260kg, 260kg (6 plates)

Db rows - 4 sets 10 reps up to 70kg DBs for 12 reps

Pullovers - 4 sets 10-15 reps up to 50kg

Shrugs - 4 sets 20 reps up to 180kg for 10 reps

This workout was slightly different as we pressed the weight rather than the reps.

But as you can see NOT a light day at all. Just shows that when you take a rest from training back for a week or so you can push a bit harder.

Normally we'd do a few extra stes of pulldowns and such but we finished early because of time restraints. I would have probably done a few sets of close grip pulldowns if I had time.

I'll post up my shoulder routine on Friday.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER

8am - 70g Oats, 20g Peanut Butter, 50g Protein shake

11am - 200g chicken, 70g Rice or a baked potato 10ml Olive oil

2pm - Same as 11am

4pm - Extreme Mass (40g oats, 40g protein)

5.30pm - Train

7pm - WHey and carb shake

10pm - 8 egg whites 3 yolks, wholemeal toast

This isnt many calories mate, is this sufficient on lower days? Even with 30g carbs per meal added I make it under 4000 calories.... I understand its working but from your previous journals you used to eat a lot more?

BTW I am going to start training 3 days per week also, was training 5 days a week and as you have stated you cant train 110% as the body just cant fully recover that fast.


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## Guest

Nice thread Tom.

When you used the slin and gh combo did you find it effective or do you find the prior to bed shots superior?


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## Tinytom

Massive

I may indulge in a choc bar here and there.

I also eat a fair bit of fruit normally 2 apples a day and some strawberries/raspberries.

I dont require millions of caloires and TBH when I do eat lots I end up being sluggish so I only really eat when hungry now but when I do eat I eat a fair bit so the meals there are the basis but I may have some extras like fruit or a choc bar.

Im off season so not as strict.

Con - both methods work well IMO, Im not using slin at the moment but may go back to it in due course.


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## Hobbit JT

Tinytom said:


> Massive
> 
> I may indulge in a choc bar here and there.
> 
> I also eat a fair bit of fruit normally 2 apples a day and some strawberries/raspberries.
> 
> I dont require millions of caloires and TBH when I do eat lots I end up being sluggish so I only really eat when hungry now but when I do eat I eat a fair bit so the meals there are the basis but I may have some extras like fruit or a choc bar.
> 
> Im off season so not as strict.
> 
> Con - both methods work well IMO, Im not using slin at the moment but may go back to it in due course.


You mentioned using Slin, I just posted a thread asking what it was. I tried using the search function but wasn't coming up with relevant threads.

p.s. this thread deserves a lot of credit, you are a star. I will be trying this in a few months time after I settle into my first year at university. Cheers!


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## Tinytom

slin is INSULIN mate

Long acting or fast acting is used for different apporaches.


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## 3752

Tinytom said:


> I may indulge in a choc bar here and there.


One or Two boxes smurf boy...... :whistling:

Excellant post mate very informative in plain english.....just goes to show you don't need a huge amount of calories to put on quality muscle....


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## Da Goon

Best post I have read on here and bullsh#t free - makes a change....repped you for this


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## Hobbit JT

Tinytom said:


> slin is INSULIN mate
> 
> Long acting or fast acting is used for different apporaches.


Oh... well the stuff I looked at online is probably not insulin but an insulin potentiator by the description, but learnt a new term for insulin.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

I like it tom this info helps people no matter how much or little they know and again puts things in basic order!


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## MASSIVEMONSTER

How are you concluding that this protocol is working better for you Tom?

Are the scales going up? Are you stronger? Are you looking visably bigger?


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## warren

wow ! great post mate.

i just need to get my head out of the sand in the way of thinking about how to train and rest. i have been so stuck in the '' 3day split have to train 1 per week'' train of thought.

one question though, most of my exersices are compound movements, will i not overtrain other parts.

ie - on back day i do deads, will this not fatigue the legs aswell? as legs still get hit more than once in the 2 weeks, as they get hit on back day and leg day? how do you get around this?

cheers reps


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## Guest

warren_1987 said:


> wow ! great post mate.
> 
> i just need to get my head out of the sand in the way of thinking about how to train and rest. i have been so stuck in the '' 3day split have to train 1 per week'' train of thought.
> 
> one question though, most of my exersices are compound movements, will i not overtrain other parts.
> 
> ie - on back day i do deads, will this not fatigue the legs aswell? as legs still get hit more than once in the 2 weeks, as they get hit on back day and leg day? how do you get around this?
> 
> cheers reps


You need to have a certain level of training intensity that takes years to achieve to only train things every 2 weeks. People always harp on about over training when in reality they dont train nearly hard enough as it is.


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## warren

cheers con, so do you think for a rec trainer it is more appropriate to train things once per week.

tom- what is your opinion on this method for a trainer who hasnt a great experience level?


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## kas1436114505

Tiny tom:

would you recommend this sort of training to a beginer or a more seasoned trainer?

thanks

kas


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## neildo

Tom i'm guessing thats uncooked weights for the rice etc? Also you only take fish oils before bed not staggered through the day?

I reckon i'm gonna give this type of training and diet theory a go when i get back from my training break on holiday so cheers mate!


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## T.F.

As per Con's post above, i don't think this type of training would suit a rec trainer, more someone who has trained for years and is at the level that the likes of TT, Pscarb, Con etc are at.


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## Bulk1

Tinytom said:


> read through again mate. you create an artificially high deficit on training days so that your body is forced to go to fat stores for energy.
> 
> then the next day you load up to recover.
> 
> also the carbs you eat on the day PRIOR to training gives you the fuel for training not what you eat on the day. therefore as long as you eat proper on the refuel days you will have energy for training.
> 
> will post vitamins and supps schedule for anti catabolic action tomorrow.


This is without doubt the best post I have read since joining this forum!! Thanks :thumbup1:

:beer:


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## Tinytom

Massive - Im bigger, fuller and I am not so tired through the day through eating so many carbs. Plus Im over 15 stone with abs something previously not attainable. Maybe just natural progression but I like to think that Ive just weedled out the things that dont work and left with the things that do.

regarding the level of training, you have to take things into perspective, Ive been training for over 10 years so yes of course my intensity will be higher than a new trainer but that doesnt mean a new trainer cant follow the plan and simply reduce the volume to their own level.


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## Guest

I am going to give your diet idea a go. Complete opposite to what i have done before so it will be interesting


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## Tinytom

Con said:


> I am going to give your diet idea a go. Complete opposite to what i have done before so it will be interesting


good to try different things mate.

If you need any more advice on it just PM me.


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## Incredibl3Bulk

Tom: how would, if at all could i incorporate AM low intensity cardio into that diet and routine, im going to give it a bash.

cheers


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## Tinytom

Incredibl3Bulk said:


> Tom: how would, if at all could i incorporate AM low intensity cardio into that diet and routine, im going to give it a bash.
> 
> cheers


TBH If I had the time I would be doing 30 mins stepping before breakfast mate.

This elevates the metabolism so you can eat more during the day.

So all good.


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## mick_the_brick

Very interesting read TT - thanks


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## adonis

This is great. I've been trying it for a week now and although i cant see a visible difference yet i really do feel stronger, more recovered and fresh for training.


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## vlb

very interesting thread...repped wee man


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## Ken Hutchinson

A very nice read, i will read it again to let it all soak in and proberly give it a go, i do something similar to this at the moment anyway so not to much for me to change.

ps not that you need them but reps are on there way.


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## Jacko89

Good stuff mate, very easy to follow. Diet isn't a million miles off of mine and i like the 2 week split, i definately feel that more rest makes me grow quicker and feel bigger all the time. Reps 

PM coming your way too.


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## Tinytom

glad people are getting some results.

any questions just ask

:thumb:


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## Guest

I have been having great results by doing this but also decreasing my food intake every day compared to the past.

The result is i am feeling energetic, weighing 225lb so its not like i have wasted away to nothing. Also my bp is now 118/70 which it has not been for a very long time (that said i have been off AAS for coming towards 3 months now...).

It is all about correct nutrition and that does not just mean protein it also means eating a wide variety of fruits and veg. Also most bb's convince them self that eating a lot of saturated fat is good for test levels when in reality you need very little. I now primarily eat chicken and bison which is very lean and have dropped whole eggs and beef i will not eat either of these two again for a couple of months.

I think your approach has you looking good but also keeps you as healthy as possible:thumbup1:


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## willsey4

Tom, firstly thankyou for posting this. Prob the best bit of info I have read on this forum over the years i have been here. Reps

I do struggle to get that pain in my muscles after my workouts (i feel as if i didnt work them as much) so thinking about giving this a go for 10 weeks plus pref when i start my next cycle.

The one question that initially springs to mind is how would you target weak areas. For example I need to bring the size of my arms up to match the rest of my body. Would you add another workout, change sets etc?

Thanks


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## Tinytom

willsey4 said:


> Tom, firstly thankyou for posting this. Prob the best bit of info I have read on this forum over the years i have been here. Reps
> 
> I do struggle to get that pain in my muscles after my workouts (i feel as if i didnt work them as much) so thinking about giving this a go for 10 weeks plus pref when i start my next cycle.
> 
> The one question that initially springs to mind is how would you target weak areas. For example I need to bring the size of my arms up to match the rest of my body. Would you add another workout, change sets etc?
> 
> Thanks


Con - glad you are getting results, to be honest I cant see myself ever going back to massive eating again as Im growing on such little food now. As you said its about getting the right food in at the right time.

Willsey - the beauty of this type of training is that you have sufficient rest for every bodypart so you can HAMMER each bodypart on every session. However if I was going to target a bodypart Id do it on either the Sunday after 2 days rest or on Friday so you then get 2 days full rest to grow.

Also I tend to take upwards of 10g BCAA and Glutamine on my weak bodypart days.


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## noel

fab post and concept...have altered my training beyond the standard 1 week apporach and works wonders for me....

diet though will try the aboveas always done the eat lots on the day of workout


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## jassdhali

Brilliant post - got me thinking. Tom wots the difference in Calories and nutrients between your rest days & training days.


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## Tinytom

jassdhali said:


> Brilliant post - got me thinking. Tom wots the difference in Calories and nutrients between your rest days & training days.


Well I dont measure strictly as Im off season but I normally add in some more carbs in the evening say I had a low fat chicken curry that I made myself on Tuesday. Had a fair bit of rice with it.

On Monday I had low fat turkey burgers in a wholemeal bun so the carb difference probably 50-60g

If you really want to be strict with it then add 30g of carbs to each meal and you'd get around 500 extra calories on rest days.

Its not set in stone its just a guide, each person will have individual levels so you have to find your own tolerance level of carbs.

Personally I eat so Im not hungry off season, I never force feed myself.


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## jw007

Reps to winger for this thread


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## willsey4

Does this training approach differ while on a cycle?

Reason I ask is that so many people say about when you are on a cycle you can train more due to quicker recovery. Do you stick to the same training approach regardless?

I am going to give this a go. Especially as very busy atm so could do with some more free time. I am trying to devise the workout/diet plan atm. When done might post it or pm to see what you think. Thanks


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## Tinytom

actually its more suited to those off cycle because of the rest.

You always train to your ability/endurance so gear will just allow you to do more.

you only grow while at rest and since nattys (beta scum) require more rest due to not being superhumanly injected with massive amounts of test this suits them perfectly.

Also gives them more time off to make daisy chains and carry the towels of alphas (roiders, small willys, no balls)


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## lshannon41

Awesome thread, very relavent to me at the moment as I'm just coming to the end of a bulking phase and my bf is getting a little high. Will this approach work as well if my training is slightly more geared towards strength and powerlifting rather than size?, as I'm looking to continue strength gains while losing bodyfat, about to come off the creatine too which means I'll have to work my a.rse off. (have recently started taking glutamine though)


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## Tinytom

lshannon41 said:


> Awesome thread, very relavent to me at the moment as I'm just coming to the end of a bulking phase and my bf is getting a little high. Will this approach work as well if my training is slightly more geared towards strength and powerlifting rather than size?, as I'm looking to continue strength gains while losing bodyfat, about to come off the creatine too which means I'll have to work my a.rse off. (have recently started taking glutamine though)


I cant saw for sure about the training side of it as I dont train as a powerlifter, although in theory if you are burning lots of calories with max lifts etc then you should get some degree of fat loss.

You dont need to come off creatine, I only take creatine on training days and just have 6 Extreme Kre Alkalyn capsules 30 minutes prior. That works fine for me.

Remember that creatines primary role in terms of training is extra ATP, the water retention in muscles is secondary and you shouldnt really be relying on that for extra size.

Glutamine Id definately recommend in terms of this style of training as its very intense and focussed for an all out session on a bodypart once every 2 weeks. 10g of Glutamine prior to WO will help recovery and prevent catabolic action. I use Extremes Glutamine capsules as they are easy to swallow and dont taste rank like the powder but any glutamine will do really.


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## lshannon41

cheers mate.



Tinytom said:


> You dont need to come off creatine, I only take creatine on training days and just have 6 Extreme Kre Alkalyn capsules 30 minutes prior. That works fine for me.


so as long as i only use it training days the theory about 2 month cycles is irrelevant because i'm not looking for water retention?


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## Tinytom

lshannon41 said:


> cheers mate.
> 
> so as long as i only use it training days the theory about 2 month cycles is irrelevant because i'm not looking for water retention?


Ive used creatine for years and no adverse effects.

I only use on training days and dont load.

I get regular blood tests and although creatinine levels are elevated slightly thats natural in heavily muscled guys because its a by product of muscle use.


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## lshannon41

cool, nice one, I might give the Extreme Kre Alkalyn caps a go as I've been using cell-tech, seen decent gains in strength and muscle(or water maybe), but obviously don't want to be taking something with that much sugar while losing fat. (plus it ain't cheap)


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## Da Goon

> 1000mg Vit C
> 
> 800iu Vitamin E
> 
> Multivitamin
> 
> 1500mg Evening Primrose
> 
> 5000mg EPA fish oil
> 
> 2 Cissus Capsules
> 
> Vitamin b complex


Vitamin B Complex before bed you must be buzzing lol  Vit B is a good one for getting things kicked off in the morning I much prefer it with brekkie - each there own though.


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## Rebus

Well this has certainly got me thinking of a change. For years i blindly trained 4bodypart split, along the lines of 2 on 1 off which basically meant each body part hit once per week with a fair bit of volume.

For the last year ive been doing a 3body part split, low volume on a 3 on 1 off and have made some good gains, ie approx 3-4kg weight increase at show weight.

Whilst this is good, i feel im getting stale/bored and fancy a shake up back to some volume in the off season so that i can do a variety of excercises, so i may give this a go. I believe James Llewellyn does something similar too.

Diet wise, my approach for the last year has been similar to Toms, ie eat when hungry and i fully endorse this and will continue. I feel its far better than eating to the hour and not actually wanting to eat and end up over eating. Eating when hungry for me helps limiting calories and your feeding the body what and when its required.

I'll have to give this training some consideration now Tom.... :thumb:


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## willsey4

BRABUS said:


> Well this has certainly got me thinking of a change. For years i blindly trained 4bodypart split, along the lines of 2 on 1 off which basically meant each body part hit once per week with a fair bit of volume.
> 
> For the last year ive been doing a 3body part split, low volume on a 3 on 1 off and have made some good gains, ie approx 3-4kg weight increase at show weight.
> 
> Whilst this is good, i feel im getting stale/bored and fancy a shake up back to some volume in the off season so that i can do a variety of excercises, so i may give this a go. I believe James Llewellyn does something similar too.
> 
> Diet wise, my approach for the last year has been similar to Toms, ie eat when hungry and i fully endorse this and will continue. I feel its far better than eating to the hour and not actually wanting to eat and end up over eating. Eating when hungry for me helps limiting calories and your feeding the body what and when its required.
> 
> I've started this training this week so will keep you posted. All in my journal if you want to follow
> 
> I'll have to give this training some consideration now Tom.... :thumb:


----------



## kaos_nw

thats a great post Tinytom, im just confused if it would be any good for me due to some of the comments, e.g. iv only started training properly about 20 months ago on stronglifts 5x5, and now i want to pack on the size

But am i right in thinking that hitting a body part once every 2 weeks wont be good for me as i doubt id be able to smash em every session due to me not being able to move heavy weights? so would i be better hitting 2 body parts a session 3 times a week but cycling calories like you do?


----------



## Tinytom

kaos_nw said:


> thats a great post Tinytom, im just confused if it would be any good for me due to some of the comments, e.g. iv only started training properly about 20 months ago on stronglifts 5x5, and now i want to pack on the size
> 
> But am i right in thinking that hitting a body part once every 2 weeks wont be good for me as i doubt id be able to smash em every session due to me not being able to move heavy weights? so would i be better hitting 2 body parts a session 3 times a week but cycling calories like you do?


its all relative mate

heavy for me is light for a champion powerlifter

lift to your ability and work yourself hard, thats the stimulus not the weight


----------



## mick_the_brick

A quick question when you have chance TT...

How would you incorporate Lanctus into this??

Using it ED - or just on increased carb days??


----------



## Tinytom

mick_the_brick said:


> A quick question when you have chance TT...
> 
> How would you incorporate Lanctus into this??
> 
> Using it ED - or just on increased carb days??


Lantus? Slow slin?

Well this is a difficult one, personally I only use levemir (slow slin) on training days with MGF first thing.

Obviously you may need more carbs on training days because of this but this should be balanced with the increase in training output

alternatively if not using MGF then I would have a shot at breakfast on non training days


----------



## mick_the_brick

Cool thanks TT - I was of a similar opinion but wanted your thoughts on it.


----------



## Beklet

Have just read this again, makes sense, and I'm due to change my split in a couple of weeks anyway....so I take it thsi will work for a dirty natty scum girlie like me then? :laugh:


----------



## willsey4

Just for people who are asking Tom about this new workout plan.

It has been my first week on this routine and so far I have done the following:

Mon - Chest

Wed - Quads

Fri - Arms

On each workout I have tried to be as intense as possible and I have done a lot more then what I would normally do.

So far:

- my chest was hurting up to sat

- im still struggling to walk

- i keep having to stretch my arms as they are killing me

So as a conclusion its working well. I couldnt imagine going to the gym tomorrow to do chest again.


----------



## benst

Im on a cut at the mo but would like to try this diet, so if i wanted to shed weight as quickly as possible could i input as much cardio as i wanted, say after trainning and on rest days. Or would i

not be gaining any muscle at all that way.


----------



## Bazooka Tooth

good post.

what do you do for your hams/calfs day?

reason i ask is i feel there is only limited exercises you can do for hams so dont know if i could hit them as hard as other muscle groups say quads where there is a huge variety of exercises you can do.


----------



## willsey4

Bazooka Tooth said:


> good post.
> 
> what do you do for your hams/calfs day?
> 
> reason i ask is i feel there is only limited exercises you can do for hams so dont know if i could hit them as hard as other muscle groups say quads where there is a huge variety of exercises you can do.


Im sure Tom will add to this but I did the following on wed for hams:

Lying leg curls - 4 sets

Seated leg curls - 4 sets

Single standing leg curls on leg extension machine - 3 sets

Seated leg curls - 3 sets

I was going to add stiff leg deads in there and also on the last set add FST7.

At the end of the workout I felt ok still and didnt think much of it. Was even contemplating adding hams back with quads for next week.

However! Now my hams are fcuked! Really hurting and i think it will still be at least another 2 days until they recover! So this workout did work!


----------



## Tinytom

romanian deads are excellent for hams and preferable for me over straight leg.

Also duck press - basically leg press as hig and wide as you can go, secret is to straighten your legs not press with your quads hard but very effective. Ill try and get it on film for you next week


----------



## iopener

Tinytom said:


> romanian deads are excellent for hams and preferable for me over straight leg.
> 
> Also duck press - basically leg press as hig and wide as you can go, secret is to straighten your legs not press with your quads hard but very effective. Ill try and get it on film for you next week


This sounds good. I would be very interested in seeing this.


----------



## All4n

Duck press the same as sumo leg press? Used them in the past and they work very very well for hams but you've got to get the positioning right or as TT says end up pushing with quads. Also can give some lower back pain ime if not sitting right. Basically put heels in the very top corners of the leg press.



Tinytom said:


> Con - glad you are getting results, to be honest I cant see myself ever going back to massive eating again as Im growing on such little food now. *As you said its about getting the right food in at the right time*.


Would you have taken this apporach many years back when in the beginning stages tom? Would you reccomend it still for somone who wants to really "up their game/step up a level" and gain as much lean mass/strength as possible? Or would you still suggest the massive eating would be better suited, albeit not keeping the trainee as lean, would you suggest this would be the quicker route in gaining LBM?

Definatly agree with the bit in bold though for maximising positive body composition.


----------



## Jux

Great info TT, much appreciated  .

A quick question though, would it be ok to truly obliterate each muscle group with a range of exercises, up to 6 per muscle group? Obviously something like 4-5 for smaller ones.


----------



## Tinytom

All4n - Well its hard to say because I adjust by learning and I've learnt that for me massive eating doesnt work very well.

However a lot of people do get on well with it so you shouldnt take this guide as the ONLY way to gain, just a way I've found works for me and a few others Ive trained.

Its definately an easier way of growing for me and Im not overloaded with food all the time making me tired from digesting it all and so probably yes I'd do this if given the chance to start again.

L.O.G - I train until I feel Ive battered the bodypart in question, sometimes this can be 20 sets sometimes 30 just depends on what exercises and weights you do. You'll have to judge if you are really wiped out of just dont want to continue mentally


----------



## Jux

Awesome, can't wait to start 

Thankyou.


----------



## 54und3r5

hey tom what would your quad or delt routine look like?


----------



## Tinytom

Quads may look like this

Warm up - Leg Press 30 rep sets 3, 4, 5 plates a side maybe more if I want.

Squats - sometimes I do front sometimes rear or sometimes superset. If I super set I do 10 of each if just one type then 10-12 on a heavier weight. - 4 sets

Lunges - 10 lunges each leg 3-4 sets

Leg extension/Hack squat superset 20/10 - 4 sets


----------



## EDDIE.H

hey Tom, going to give this routine a try from Monday, what would be a typical arm workout for you mate, cheers


----------



## Tinytom

EDDIE.H said:


> hey Tom, going to give this routine a try from Monday, what would be a typical arm workout for you mate, cheers


I train arms together

High cable curls/tricep pulldowns (like kickbacks but stood up) 20 x 4

DB Curls - 10 x 4

Double or single arm preacher machine 4 x 20

Close grip Bench Press - 4 x 20

Overhead DB extension - 3 x 10

Tricep Pressdown on cable supersetted with cable rope hammer curls 4 x 20

Thats an example of one i did recently


----------



## All4n

Tom you've said you take T3 on training days only. I have an idea or two why but if you don't mind would like to hear why you've chosen to take it this way.


----------



## ste08

Alright Tiny, great thread!

I came across this thread on my dinner at work today and been going over it in my head ever since, it sounds great a really does make sense. Just a couple of questions in my mind though if you dont mind;

How come ive never came across this before in anything i have read with regards to bodybuilding. I know as said previously, there are several ways to skin a cat but it just strikes me as this is the opposite to how most people will have there diet etc. But yea, i do understand that everybody has it drilled into them to train each body part once per week. Is this the pro's secret? lol 'Con' 'DB' 'Weeman' 'Mars' 'Hackskii' etc.

Also, i always thought that for maximum size and strength you should aim for 6-10reps for approx 3/4 sets for 3 exersizes and thats it. If you are blasting the chest for everywork out, wouldn't this stop growth as you are totally abliterating it every session? doing crazy ammount of reps & sets etc. Would this not be overtraining it?

And one last thing, are there any fats in your diet there? PB, nuts etc?

I am not trying to question your intellagence or anything as i can clearly see that you are a man of many years experience, i am just really interested in this routine. Sorry if the questions seem a bit stupid lol

Cheers, Ste


----------



## Rosko

Top post Tom! Thanks!

This interests me as until a while ago i was doing the usual 4 / 5 sessions a week, and changed down to a 3 day Legs/Push/Pull as the more i read the more see how important rest and diet are, so figured i'd get train harder, rest more, eat better, and i've been pleasantly surprised with the results. :thumb:

My thought is that your way of training (6 body parts, 3 days a week split over 2 weeks) is just a further continuation of what i have tried to implement (3 body parts over 1 week), just with more specificity, eg my Legs day gets splits into your Hams and Quads days, my back day would be split into your Back and sholders days? Correct?

I gonna stick with what i'm doing for a bit longer as its still working, so why change it?! But think i'll defo give your way a try in time. :beer:


----------



## Tinytom

Greekgoddess said:


> Hi Tom , I would just like to say a big thank you for the info in this thread. I have been following for some time now and it is working wonders for me. I have to train for two days, have one day off then train for two more and have the weekend off because of time restrictions as to when I can train. I hammer each body part when I train them in the gym.
> 
> I look and feel fantastic on this regime , with my weight rising slowly from the starting point of 58kg (at 5ft 4)but my bodyfat still at 19percent and fairly stable. My question is this, is there anything I can do or take to ease off the doms that build up during the week? They reach a crescendo by the weekend so I can hardly move without it hurting somewhere and have to take a soft cushion round with me to sit on!
> 
> My second problem, which seemed to start about ten days ago, is that I am getting a terrific pump in the gym which does not go down and is still full and hard all the next day even if is a rest day.
> 
> I am following the lower carbs on training day and higher carbs on rest day as you recommended. For supplements I take the following:
> 
> mulitivitamin
> 
> magnesium
> 
> zinc
> 
> CLA
> 
> Fish oils
> 
> vitamin c
> 
> protein shake
> 
> Thanks Tom.Off to see if a hot radox bath will help......


I suspect that you are doing too much, if you are following the routine then you should only be doing 3 days training per week and splitting the body over 2 weeks.

This way you can hammer each bodypart and have adequate rest as 1 days rest after 2 consecutive days trainng all out will not be enough to then do 2 more days training. split it down a bit more, if you give me a brief description of your trianing split I dont mind helping.

Pump for 2 days - thats a good thing in my book so not sure how to help you on that one lol.


----------



## Tinytom

All4n said:


> Tom you've said you take T3 on training days only. I have an idea or two why but if you don't mind would like to hear why you've chosen to take it this way.


The reason is that its my theory that the body recovers overnight while resting. Therefore it wil make most use of the nutirents and vitamins etc while you sleep.

Therefore taking T3 in the evening with the last meal will help that along and allow proteins to be absorbed faster.

Also sets you up for the morning as the T3 will still be active when you wake up for the higher carb day.


----------



## Tinytom

ste08 said:


> Alright Tiny, great thread!
> 
> I came across this thread on my dinner at work today and been going over it in my head ever since, it sounds great a really does make sense. Just a couple of questions in my mind though if you dont mind;
> 
> How come ive never came across this before in anything i have read with regards to bodybuilding. I know as said previously, there are several ways to skin a cat but it just strikes me as this is the opposite to how most people will have there diet etc. But yea, i do understand that everybody has it drilled into them to train each body part once per week. Is this the pro's secret? lol 'Con' 'DB' 'Weeman' 'Mars' 'Hackskii' etc.
> 
> *Also, i always thought that for maximum size and strength you should aim for 6-10reps for approx 3/4 sets for 3 exersizes and thats it.* If you are blasting the chest for everywork out, wouldn't this stop growth as you are totally abliterating it every session? doing crazy ammount of reps & sets etc. Would this not be overtraining it?
> 
> And one last thing, are there any fats in your diet there? PB, nuts etc?
> 
> I am not trying to question your intellagence or anything as i can clearly see that you are a man of many years experience, i am just really interested in this routine. Sorry if the questions seem a bit stupid lol
> 
> Cheers, Ste


Well you have to consider the logic of the method. Yes you batter the bodypart in a session but then you dont train it again for 14 days. That ample time to recover even considering secondary exercise with other muscle groups. This is not overtraining its simply allowing adequate rest.

You simply cannot go into the gym and batter your body week after week with heavy weights and do each bodypart once in a week without eventually suffering some sort of injury or negative nerve system reaction (burn out).

However if you only train 3 days a week and only train the body over 2 weeks thats enough rest to batter the bodypart and then recover fully. Also keeps the body guessing as to the next workout as no week will be the same if you change around the bodyparts every 2 weeks.

I dont think its a new 'secret' its probably been discussed before, I just have found that I grow much faster doing this type of split, believe me it took me a while to believe that less workouts would be better but now I wouldnt change, I have more time for my family and am not overloading my system with food bloating me out constantly.

I do eat fats, peanut butter, EPA oil, Evening primrose, olive oil. This gives me a broad spectrum of fats in my diet.

The bit Ive highlighted in bold is the thing I hear so many times. With a lottle bit of NLP type discussion here.

'Who told you that this was the best'

'Why is it the best'

'What would happen if you did more sets? How do you know for sure?'

Challenge beliefs in order to progress, if you want to get somewhere with your training then dont do what everyone else does, you arent the same as everyone else, your genetics and abilities will be different. Many people train with the 3 x 10 reps ethic because its easy to do and keeps them fit.

However if you want to gain some proper muscle then vary your routine so that the body has to adapt.

I may very well go back to 4 day a week split soon for 12 weeks just to vary it a little bit.


----------



## Tinytom

Rosko said:


> Top post Tom! Thanks!
> 
> This interests me as until a while ago i was doing the usual 4 / 5 sessions a week, and changed down to a 3 day Legs/Push/Pull as the more i read the more see how important rest and diet are, so figured i'd get train harder, rest more, eat better, and i've been pleasantly surprised with the results. :thumb:
> 
> My thought is that your way of training (6 body parts, 3 days a week split over 2 weeks) is just a further continuation of what i have tried to implement (3 body parts over 1 week), just with more specificity, eg my Legs day gets splits into your Hams and Quads days, my back day would be split into your Back and sholders days? Correct?
> 
> *I gonna stick with what i'm doing for a bit longer as its still working, so why change it?!* But think i'll defo give your way a try in time. :beer:


This is the most important factor in any system. If it works no point changing.

Good to have all the info if you need to change but if you are growing then theres no need to make changes. :thumb:


----------



## Tinytom

The first split you listed is still the whole body in a week.

The second is more in line with the plan I have laid out in the thread.

I would go with the newer option of splitting the body over 2 weeks.

You cant do this type of training fitting the body in the week, you wont have enough rest


----------



## ste08

Alright Tom, cheers for your detailed reply.

I am definatly going to give this a try soon. Just one other thing tho;

You said that if you keep changing it around every couple of week then it keeps your body guessing.

If you have time, please could you illustrate this. Could you do a month for example. I know this is your 2 week split below, how would the following 2 weeks be structured? Would you move bodyparts around on different days? If you did that tho then you wouldnt be trainin every bodypart once every 2 weeks, it could be once every 3 or 4 weeks, depending on how you arrange it.

First 2 weeks

Mon - Quads

Wed - Back

Fri - Delts

Mon - Hams

Wed - Chest

Fri - Arms

Cheers Tom.

Steve


----------



## Tinytom

ste08 said:


> Alright Tom, cheers for your detailed reply.
> 
> I am definatly going to give this a try soon. Just one other thing tho;
> 
> You said that if you keep changing it around every couple of week then it keeps your body guessing.
> 
> If you have time, please could you illustrate this. Could you do a month for example. I know this is your 2 week split below, how would the following 2 weeks be structured? Would you move bodyparts around on different days? If you did that tho then you wouldnt be trainin every bodypart once every 2 weeks, it could be once every 3 or 4 weeks, depending on how you arrange it.
> 
> First 2 weeks
> 
> Mon - Quads
> 
> Wed - Back
> 
> Fri - Delts
> 
> Mon - Hams
> 
> Wed - Chest
> 
> Fri - Arms
> 
> Cheers Tom.
> 
> Steve


Mon - Quads

Wed - Back

Fri - Delts

Mon - Hams

Wed - Chest

Fri - Arms

Mon - Back

Wed - Delts

Fri - Quads

Mon - Chest

Wed - Arms

Fri - Hams

Dont be too rigid in your thinking, you dont train a bodypart for 3 weeks and if you come back and hammer it you've probably stimulated some new growth.


----------



## jassdhali

Tiny I remember and old saying that I have heard many times that just came to me

"You cant lose weight and gain muscle at the same time"

Your thoughts


----------



## DNC

Loving this thread,going to start up on Monday and give it a go.

Can you post up a typical delts routine mate as its the only 1 missing

Reps!!!


----------



## Tinytom

jassdhali said:


> Tiny I remember and old saying that I have heard many times that just came to me
> 
> "You cant lose weight and gain muscle at the same time"
> 
> Your thoughts


LOL my thoughts

Probably said by people who look the same year in year out cos they havent pushed the barriers or thought outside routines from Flex.

Such people subscribe to the 'all calories at all cost' to gain muscle/weight and so associate gaining muscle with gaining fat as a by product.

Whereas if you follow a similar routine to how Ive outlined it is very possible.

Dutch Scott has been my guinea pig in all this, 20 stone when he started and now 18 stone and looking much bigger than before.


----------



## Tinytom

DNC said:


> Loving this thread,going to start up on Monday and give it a go.
> 
> Can you post up a typical delts routine mate as its the only 1 missing
> 
> Reps!!!


Delts yesterday

Seated Delt raise machine 4 x 20

Rear delts on cable crossover single armed 4 x 20

Front cable raise - 4 x 20

Seated side laterals with legs up on bench - 20,15,10 (very hard exercise total isolation no cheating is possible)

Seated DB press - 2 x 20 (Max weight possible)

Im training with a guy doing the Brits in a few weeks so we did a routine that maximised delts and minimised ancillary muscle involvement to as to target the delt heads.

Normally I'd do a few standing Military Presses as well.


----------



## lshannon41

Been following this for a few weeks now, definition has increased dramatically, strength has plateaud a bit except for squats which are still improving, gonna change routine around a bit and maybe up carbs slightly as weight was co,ing off at about " pounds per week. On holiday in morocco at the moment so will hit it hard when I get back, maybe see if I can find a gym here too.


----------



## Jux

TT, can you use FST-7 for this method?


----------



## Tinytom

LloydOfGrimsby said:


> TT, can you use FST-7 for this method?


of course you can mate. Its a high rep training principle :thumbup1:


----------



## Jux

Tinytom said:


> of course you can mate. Its a high rep training principle :thumbup1:


Ok cheers


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

can i ask tom as i am following this diet while training the hst method then am going onto this method of training in a couple of weeks, the only thing is where do you have veg if you have veg at all as i know you said you eat as much fruit as you want but what about veg and if you dont eat it is there any reason for this just curious thats all.

Thanks mate


----------



## LittleChris

Do you think this method would work if only selectively used?

I have found a training system that appears to be working for me, but nutrition is something that I am always prepared to experiment with,

Surely following the nutrition aspect of this wouldn't be a problem with my current routine, or do you feel it is the sum of all parts combined that makes this programme work?


----------



## willsey4

LittleChris said:


> Do you think this method would work if only selectively used?
> 
> I have found a training system that appears to be working for me, but nutrition is something that I am always prepared to experiment with,
> 
> Surely following the nutrition aspect of this wouldn't be a problem with my current routine, or do you feel it is the sum of all parts combined that makes this programme work?


Since lowering the cals I look a lot better, feel bigger but still growing!!!


----------



## Jux

Going to start this soon.

Gonna cut my carb sources to ~50g per meal (ie 50g of oats) on a low day, is that ok? Cause i don't have as much muscle mass as the likes of you TT :wub:


----------



## LittleChris

Its true. I have always found that I can gain, but with the muscle comes fat gain which isn't needed in the long run. I think my mindset was that it is better to gain a little fat along with the muscle, rather than risk not gaining as much muscle as you can.

Going to try this approach, if only because it seems logical, and you don't get anywhere by being risk adverse.

Decided I will follow the training methods as well.

TT, when training for each of the 4 sets, are these sets pyramidded as you would expect?

Say doing delt flyes, would you do 4sets of the same weight, or work up through the weights, say start on 5kg and finish on 12kg.

Do you prefer using isolation exercises first before the big compounds, say cable pulldowns before barbell rows, or is this something you keep changing around each session for the added stimulus?

Do you ever use rest-pause/dropsets and other HIT priniciples in this training or do you think the sheer volume alone is enough to facilitate enough muscle breakdown for growth?

Many thanks...


----------



## willsey4

LittleChris said:


> Its true. I have always found that I can gain, but with the muscle comes fat gain which isn't needed in the long run. I think my mindset was that it is better to gain a little fat along with the muscle, rather than risk not gaining as much muscle as you can.
> 
> Going to try this approach, if only because it seems logical, and you don't get anywhere by being risk adverse.
> 
> Decided I will follow the training methods as well.
> 
> TT, when training for each of the 4 sets, are these sets pyramidded as you would expect?
> 
> Say doing delt flyes, would you do 4sets of the same weight, or work up through the weights, say start on 5kg and finish on 12kg.
> 
> Do you prefer using isolation exercises first before the big compounds, say cable pulldowns before barbell rows, or is this something you keep changing around each session for the added stimulus?
> 
> Do you ever use rest-pause/dropsets and other HIT priniciples in this training or do you think the sheer volume alone is enough to facilitate enough muscle breakdown for growth?
> 
> Many thanks...


Today i did shoulders. For example i started off with 4 sets of db side raises. I got 20 reps with the 17.5kg dumbells. Then 17 reps, then 15, then 12.

As i was going to failure each time with not loads of rest time I would never be able to get the same amount of reps again for the next set


----------



## Tinytom

Chris4Pez said:


> can i ask tom as i am following this diet while training the hst method then am going onto this method of training in a couple of weeks, the only thing is where do you have veg if you have veg at all as i know you said you eat as much fruit as you want but what about veg and if you dont eat it is there any reason for this just curious thats all.
> 
> Thanks mate


I do eat veg, just not a lot of it. Hate veg really.


----------



## Tinytom

LittleChris said:


> Its true. I have always found that I can gain, but with the muscle comes fat gain which isn't needed in the long run. I think my mindset was that it is better to gain a little fat along with the muscle, rather than risk not gaining as much muscle as you can.
> 
> Going to try this approach, if only because it seems logical, and you don't get anywhere by being risk adverse.
> 
> Decided I will follow the training methods as well.
> 
> TT, when training for each of the 4 sets, are these sets pyramidded as you would expect?
> 
> Say doing delt flyes, would you do 4sets of the same weight, or work up through the weights, say start on 5kg and finish on 12kg.
> 
> Do you prefer using isolation exercises first before the big compounds, say cable pulldowns before barbell rows, or is this something you keep changing around each session for the added stimulus?
> 
> Do you ever use rest-pause/dropsets and other HIT priniciples in this training or do you think the sheer volume alone is enough to facilitate enough muscle breakdown for growth?
> 
> Many thanks...


As a rule.......there are no rules.

For example I did legs yesterday and did 20 rep leg press, on th elast set I decided midway through that 20 was easy and did 50 total, just kept pressing until it hurt a lot.

Same for each set really, I go into each set thinking about 20 reps but if I get to 18 and think I can do more I do. Same as if Im doing a heavier weight I'll always think 20 but say on 6-8 if its forcing me to do bad form then I would stop at 10.

10 reps on a heavy weight is still a good effort.

DONT go into a set thinking, this is heavier so only aiming for 12 reps as you'll set yourself a barrier before you even start.

Like Willsey has said if you push yourself hard then you may find that increasing the weight means you can only get 12-15 reps, however you should only know this once you start repping as thats the only time you are able to make a judgement on your ability at that point in the workout.

So dont reduce your weight to get 20 reps at all, go with the same weights as you would use for your 60-80% max and go for 20 reps, before long you'll be smashing them up no problem and then you can increase the weight.

I incorporate all methods of training, HIT, Drop sets, pyramid etc. As I have said I do go for heavier weight and reduced weight sometimes but its the exception not the rule. Variation is the key.


----------



## jw007

This is like reading "Muscle and Fitness" ha ha ha ha ha


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Tinytom said:


> I do eat veg, just not a lot of it. Hate veg really.


Thanks TT its just that i am following your diet and noticed it didnt but tbh i dont really like veg too much either lol

Do you supplement veg if you dont eat it a lot e.g i told someone down at my gym i dont eat veg a lot as i dont like it and they told me about some form of drinkable veg or something like that which comes in a powder form but gives you all the goodness aint seen it around and not to sure what he is on about but you might know and if you do, do you think it is nessesary ( dont know if i have spelt that right lol) to have it????

Cheers


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

God said:


> Heard of Udo's doing a product (and tried a sample). Something like Udo's Greens I think however the taste is rancid, the product is expensive and it probably isn't a substitute for proper food.
> 
> Edit: Found it - http://www.discount-supplements.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=8169&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleBase


Thanks


----------



## willsey4

jw007 said:


> This is like reading "Muscle and Fitness" ha ha ha ha ha


We all know your jealous JW!


----------



## DNC

Thanks for the delts routine mate.

Will get it mashed up on friday!!!


----------



## Tinytom

I dont like veggies really but I do eat them.

Tried that udos greens once and was almost sick so never again


----------



## Guest

jw007 said:


> This is like reading "Muscle and Fitness" ha ha ha ha ha


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## hilly

tom do you still advocate people tracking what they are doing in log books etc so they no they are progressing each week and getting stronger as this is kep to building muscle as well as diet etc.

I like the idea but feel people may get lost on changing things up often and end up not focusing on progressing in weight each week or do you not feel this is as important as some say?


----------



## Tinytom

hilly said:


> tom do you still advocate people tracking what they are doing in log books etc so they no they are progressing each week and getting stronger as this is kep to building muscle as well as diet etc.
> 
> I like the idea but feel people may get lost on changing things up often and end up not focusing on progressing in weight each week or do you not feel this is as important as some say?


OK I dont keep a log book but I do see the benefit in doing so as you can chart your progress over 6 months.

However people can get too tied up in their previous bests and this can lead to them trying to match a day where they had an awesome lift or performance every day.

Personally I think its good to take progress pictures and record some data but just be wary of being too meticulous with the record keeping.

Its good to see what you did in a certain week that maybe led to a good workout that week but this could also just be due to am adaption response from the body

e.g. if you train with 20 rep sets for a few months you will find that you get more endurance and strength over the set as the body adapts to the way of training. Then if you did a heavy set one day and only did 10 reps whereas previously your best on that weight was 4 reps you'd be likely to think that this was a combination of short term factors such as food you ate that day, gear used etc.

However its more likely to be an adaption response from the body to the high rep training so when you come to do heavier weights for lower reps you are actually stronger for longer as this is the training you have conditioned your body for.

As for the changing regularly, I still say only change your programme when you stop seeing changes, however the workouts should constantly change so that you reach that point at a later date, for example doing chest every monday will condition your body to prepare the muscles and nerves for chest on monday therefore it will eventually find a way to lift the same weight using less muscle fibres which is why you see people who do chest every monday in the gym never progressing as after a time their body becomes so good at doing the same workout that it becomes a non stimulus.

Bit of a long answer but theres a lot of factors.


----------



## Tinytom

jw007 said:


> This is like reading "Muscle and Fitness" ha ha ha ha ha


You read Muscle and Fitness? :whistling:

BETA


----------



## jw007

Tinytom said:


> You read Muscle and Fitness? :whistling:
> 
> BETA


[email protected] :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was going to reply with some attempt at sarcasm or humour, but in fairness just made me look sad:lol: :lol:

You got me there PMSL


----------



## tjwilkie

hi tom im going to give this a go could sounds like a very good way of training as im pretty knackerd after a days graft on site and could do with the extra rest could u give your typical quad workout please

thnx T.J.


----------



## TH0R

Very thought provoking post TT, seems to be a few "new theories" around atm.

Having read the Chest workout in the OP, how long would that take?

I ask as even though your only training a bp per fortnight, the CNS is still taking a bit of a

battering if you workouts are 90mins every other day.

I like the diet and will see how it works for an old man like me, I'm thinking of keeping my

same split but doing it over 9 days, that way short intense workouts 45 mins max, and rest are achieved

Thoughts?


----------



## Tinytom

tel3563 said:


> Very thought provoking post TT, seems to be a few "new theories" around atm.
> 
> Having read the Chest workout in the OP, how long would that take?
> 
> I ask as even though your only training a bp per fortnight, the CNS is still taking a bit of a
> 
> battering if you workouts are 90mins every other day.
> 
> I like the diet and will see how it works for an old man like me, I'm thinking of keeping my
> 
> same split but doing it over 9 days, that way short intense workouts 45 mins max, and rest are achieved
> 
> Thoughts?


normally a workout would take me 45-60 minutes mate, I dont hang about. Plus you leave it too long between sets and your lactic acid and body warmth starts to go.

What you propose is fine, I used to do mine over 1.5 weeks but split it down further once I noticed results.


----------



## jw007

Hmm interesting

Im liking the idea of "swiss ball flies"tm

How do you think I can incorporate it effectively into my strength chest\power building routine???

Do you think would be benefitial before or after my 220kg bench????

How do you think this would impact and or maximise my growth and strength potential???

Would I be able to maintain my lean mass if I add in some lettuce and count my macros (if i knew what they were)

Will this mean I can have a cheat meal at NANDOStm and not be detrimental in any way to my "spot on diet"

Thanks for help mate

This thread is awesome

I have come around to a whole new way of thinking

Goodbye "muscle and bloody fitness" I can tell you


----------



## Tinytom

jw007 said:


> Hmm interesting
> 
> Im liking the idea of "swiss ball flies"tm
> 
> How do you think I can incorporate it effectively into my strength chest\power building routine???
> 
> Do you think would be benefitial before or after my 220kg bench????
> 
> How do you think this would impact and or maximise my growth and strength potential???
> 
> Would I be able to maintain my lean mass if I add in some lettuce and count my macros (if i knew what they were)
> 
> Will this mean I can have a cheat meal at NANDOStm and not be detrimental in any way to my "spot on diet"
> 
> Thanks for help mate
> 
> This thread is awesome
> 
> I have come around to a whole new way of thinking
> 
> Goodbye "muscle and bloody fitness" I can tell you


If this WAS a serious question I would provide a serious answer. 

So.......... You are not ready for training. You drink too much stella.


----------



## defdaz

Great guide Tom. Another high rep fan, loving that fact! :lol:

I wonder why so few people are prepared to train high reps, or even give it a chance? Maybe because it is so tough (especially legs and back) and they're all mincy girly boys (er and girls)? 

Seriously, high reps have so many positives (for me at least) - safer, better pumps (so more fascia stretching), excellent growth and minimal damage to joints and tendons, great maths practice (counting to 20 is very difficult with your trainers on) :lol:


----------



## pastanchicken

I've traditionally been a highish rep trainer too, recently switched to lower reps and enjoying the change at the minute.

Prob going to give Tom's routine a go though :thumbup1:


----------



## Andy Dee

Shock horror lol, never read this before cos i expected to find the same old info but this is something different, i was actually doing it the other way round.

Eating high cals and carbs on my training days and dropping carbs and cals on my off days, some people said you can utilize carbs from the day before but never knew if it was true or not.

I also done the high fats method a long time ago, sticking with low carbs but enough to get me through the days and using high fat intake as a primary energy source.

Cant rep you twice Tom but good article.


----------



## Nemises

Nice article, i like the aproach to diet.

Why are you taking so much kr-alkalyn? (sp)

They say take 1 or 2 i fink. Do you feel taking more is beneficial?


----------



## Tinytom

nemises_gendo said:


> Nice article, i like the aproach to diet.
> 
> Why are you taking so much kr-alkalyn? (sp)
> 
> They say take 1 or 2 i fink. Do you feel taking more is beneficial?


more my weight size 3 before and 3 after workout are the guidelines but i just take 6 before mate


----------



## Andy Dee

Tinytom said:


> more my weight size 3 before and 3 after workout are the guidelines but i just take 6 before mate


How do you compare it to normal creatine powder? I use to take kre-alkyn back when it was purple-k.


----------



## EDDIE.H

hi tom mate as i said, i was going to try this type of training from monday, i thought id let people know how it went

mon - CHEST, ached from tues til this morning (sat)

wed - BACK, still aching slightly on lats

fri - SHOULDERS, slightly sore but they feel tired.

ARMS on mon coming, then on wed got LEGS, fri CHEST again going to keep rotating like this for 3 months thanks for posting this advice enjoyed training this week, hope next week goes as well as this one, cheers


----------



## Jux

TT.

Ive made my diet.

Low cal day, 2326 cals.

High cal day, 3264 cals.

I thought i'd keep the cals relatively low, i put fat on like crazy 

Is this ok?


----------



## Tinytom

LloydOfGrimsby said:


> TT.
> 
> Ive made my diet.
> 
> Low cal day, 2326 cals.
> 
> High cal day, 3264 cals.
> 
> I thought i'd keep the cals relatively low, i put fat on like crazy
> 
> Is this ok?


Well without seeing you in person I couldnt give an exact answer mate but the difference in calories looks good, theres a 900 calorie shift there so thats enough I would say.


----------



## Jacko89

Tom how would you calculate the kcals you need mate? Im going on 81(my weight in kg's) x 2.2(lbs) x 20 = 3564kcals.

If that is right then on my low day i would eat that many kcals as i would still be in deficit from the training, correct?? and then on the high day i would take that upto 4400kcals'ish with carbs.?


----------



## Tinytom

Jack - that calculation would be the high day.

The low day needs to be a deficit, what you've calculated would be more a maintenance or gaining level.

As a guide Im 92kg and my daily intake is what I wrote on the first post.

I dont get too caught up in calories TBH unless Im dieting. Some days I may be more hungry and so I eat more but I follow the basic layout of the diet.

Got to remember that you dont really need much of a change in calories day to day as the training will carry you into a deficit if you really push yourself. really you need to experiment and find the right 'base' for you and then just vary the calories by say 400-500 each way on the training and recovery days


----------



## costacurtis

lovely jubbly


----------



## oaklad

just seen this thread and found it very useful going to try it

if you were looking to lean up could you add in early morning cardio on rest days but leave one complete rest day?


----------



## Jux

Tinytom said:


> Well without seeing you in person I couldnt give an exact answer mate but the difference in calories looks good, theres a 900 calorie shift there so thats enough I would say.


I'm fat.

lol


----------



## willsey4

LloydOfGrimsby said:


> I'm fat.
> 
> lol


Beauty with this diet is i believe you dont need to worry too much about counting the cals.

Basically on non workout days i have extra scoops of ground oats in my shakes and then extra rice/pasta/potatoe etc with my meals.

Dont get caught up to much about it


----------



## LittleChris

Its true, and oddly, I have dropped calories, yet still remain at 100kg and seem leaner. Perhaps just a mind thing though. Enjoying the high volume for sure!


----------



## Jux

Did arm yesterday.

Massive pump in both bi and tri's. 2 sessions of cardio, 1 before meal 1 and one PWO, all good?

High cal day today  , all clean foods too. Sweet potatoes, chicken, eggs (5whites,2 yolks), brown rice and steak.

*Oh btw, tesco are doing rump for under £6 per KG, got some on sunday, don't know if the offer is still on but well worth a gander*


----------



## TH0R

LloydOfGrimsby said:


> Did arm yesterday.
> 
> Massive pump in both bi and tri's. 2 sessions of cardio, 1 before meal 1 and one PWO, all good?
> 
> High cal day today  , all clean foods too. Sweet potatoes, chicken, eggs (5whites,2 yolks), brown rice and steak.
> 
> *Oh btw, tesco are doing rump for under £6 per KG, got some on sunday, don't know if the offer is still on but well worth a gander*


I wouldn't buy supermarket steak if it was half that price, its pumped full of

steroids:lol:

Seriously sh1te steak though


----------



## Jux

Well i aint spending student money on steak for every night for anything above 10 pounds per kilo.


----------



## Tinytom

i dont ever bother with steak TBH.

Steak mince for bolognaise or chilli

Yummy and cheap


----------



## willsey4

12% fat irish steak mince is 3 packs for £10 and each pack weighs 750g. Doesnt reduce that much either.

Might be tescos etc but tastes good!


----------



## Jux

Ive got 3.2 kg of steak in the freezer lol.

"Can i have some rump please?"

"Sure, how much?"

"All you've got"

for less than 20 pounds


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

TT what do you drink on this as i have been just drinking water but is it ok to have say cordial,or diet soda which brings me onto the next question whats better diet soda or normal as when i did my level 3 the person teachin it swore blind that its better to have normal if any over having diet or sugar free do you agree???


----------



## Tinytom

Im not that fussy to be honest

I like diet pepsi so I drink diet pepsi.

I also drink squash.

Theres a time to be super strict and off season isnt it for me.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

So going back to is diet better than normal would you agree with me that it is orwould you agree with the lecturer i had and say normal is better?


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Reason i thought that diet is better is less spiking of the Inslulin levels but apparently diet pop still does spike inslin levels but the slin does does not know what to do as its sucrose etc and not glucose or sugar!

Do you agree with this as i didnt?


----------



## Tinytom

there is no sugar in diet pepsi

sucrose is sugar and will spike insulin

I have read about diet coke giving a slight insulin spike but dont believe it as if this was the case id be slin spazzing out all the way through my diet as I only have 80g carbs but loads of diet pepsi


----------



## MASSIVEMONSTER

Tom

What peptides you running?

When you looking to compete next mate?


----------



## Tinytom

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> Tom
> 
> What peptides you running?
> 
> When you looking to compete next mate?


in theory if I was going to do such things

400mcg MGF - training days

100mcg IGF pre wo

8iu GH on training days


----------



## willsey4

Tinytom said:


> in theory if I was going to do such things
> 
> 400mcg MGF - training days
> 
> 100mcg IGF pre wo
> 
> 8iu GH on training days


would you say you need to be at a certain level to do such peps?


----------



## Tinytom

willsey4 said:


> would you say you need to be at a certain level to do such peps?


I think the issue is cost really as these peptides allow you to go beyond what is genetically possible.

Gear is more about the receptor availablity and so doing a pro level course as a beginner really isnt worth it but with peptides its slightly different although you can use more and get better results using more if you are bigger.

No IMO I think that peptide use is one of the better anabolic routes as theres no shutdown althoughthere maybe other side effects. Also with the use of the variation of peptides available such as those listed and also things like CJC, GRF, GHRP etc you can get very good results with minimal risks.

However all that being said I certainly wouldnt recommend that as a route for a beginner because of the costs involved but also because you need to have a certain awareness of the timings and dosings involved and how your body reacts to certain comupounds. Certainly a run of the mill gear monkey from the local gym is not the prime candidate for this. I little more education and knowledge is needed to get best results


----------



## TH0R

Tinytom said:


> I think the issue is cost really as these peptides allow you to go beyond what is genetically possible.
> 
> Gear is more about the receptor availablity and so doing a pro level course as a beginner really isnt worth it but with peptides its slightly different although you can use more and get better results using more if you are bigger.
> 
> No IMO I think that peptide use is one of the better anabolic routes as theres no shutdown althoughthere maybe other side effects. Also with the use of the variation of peptides available such as those listed and also things like CJC, GRF, GHRP etc you can get very good results with minimal risks.
> 
> However all that being said I certainly wouldnt recommend that as a route for a beginner because of the costs involved but also because you need to have a certain awareness of the timings and dosings involved and how your body reacts to certain comupounds. Certainly *a run of the mill gear monkey* from the local gym is not the prime candidate for this. I little more education and knowledge is needed to get best results


Can you be more specific:lol:


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Tom,

Thanks for putting this together, it has helped clear a lot of things up for me and i'm sure others as well.

In an earlier post you said FST-7 can be used with this routine,

I was wondering what you're thoughts are about FST-7 and would you use or have you used it.

Also tom, i didn't see a calves or traps routine.

Cheers

kev.


----------



## andyc259

think this post is exactly what i need thanks


----------



## Tinytom

Grim_Reaper said:


> Tom,
> 
> Thanks for putting this together, it has helped clear a lot of things up for me and i'm sure others as well.
> 
> In an earlier post you said FST-7 can be used with this routine,
> 
> I was wondering what you're thoughts are about FST-7 and would you use or have you used it.
> 
> Also tom, i didn't see a calves or traps routine.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> kev.


No probs mate

I dont do strict FST as I get bored after 5 sets but the principle of 20+ reps is something I subscribe to.

I'll post up a calves and traps routine tomorrow when I have soem more time


----------



## brownie

Tinytom said:


> Lying Leg curls 5 sets 20 reps
> 
> Romanian deadlifts BB - 4 sets 15 reps
> 
> Single leg curls (can be done on quad extension machine if no single leg curl machine available, ive posted a video on Umuscle of how to do it)
> 
> Stiff leg deads with DBs - 4 sets 20 reps
> 
> Duck Press (high and wide leg press that hits the hams) 4 sets 20 reps.
> 
> thats what I do normally albeit on different combinations.
> 
> Also dont be afraid of chucking in some super sets such as Leg curl/leg extension or lunges after deads.
> 
> Such things will only work to stimulate the antagonist muscle in the exercise and because you will only do a few sets it wont fatigue the muscle greatly.


Jeezz, now i know why lmy egs are lagging behind. i am happy to do 1 if not 2 of the above for hams:rolleyes:


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Very shexy

are u sure that's for Halloween lol


----------



## mazzucazze

Has anybody tried this and logged it? I am really interested in it and in seeing some before and after pics. may give it a go. Currently training with phil hernon's routine.


----------



## MASSIVEMONSTER

I`ve gained 20kg doing this in a month. 120kg now


----------



## pickle

I need to start gaining muscle now. but to be honest im scared to give this a try.

I have been training mon,wed,fri, for 20 months

mon: chest, tri's, shoulders

wed: legs, abs

fri: bi's, lats abs

I have not seen the size i would like to, although i have only started eating and "pushing harder" in the gym in the past 6 month.

is it worth me trying the single body part every 2 weeks training? or should i try to perfect, learn and gain abit more experience before i move on?

thanks for the superb post tom. keep on giving us novices the knowledge we desperately need.

pickle


----------



## leonface

pickle said:


> i have only started eating in the past 6 month.


this would be your problem, to be honest, i don't know how you are alive...


----------



## TH0R

leonface said:


> this would be your problem, to be honest, i don't know how you are alive...


He's been on "bitty"


----------



## pickle

i edited that post too. i really should re-read my posts. i ment eating propperly.

eg noting down (mentally) what i eat, how much i eat etc


----------



## leonface

pickle said:


> i edited that post too. i really should re-read my posts. i ment eating propperly.
> 
> eg noting down (mentally) what i eat, how much i eat etc


you should give this a go if you want to put on mass, Tom knows his stuff and this is an excellent routine to follow, but nothing is set in stone, you should find what works best for you - but that will come by trying new things out. With the amount of good advice on this forum, there will always be a plan B for you to go to. :beer:

good luck


----------



## pickle

tom: what are the chances of a training routine if you think i should start the training program in question)

a general routine for everyone in the same situation as me would be ideal, then you wont get 30 people messaging you the same questions.

if your too busy thats fine.


----------



## Tinytom

Pickle

If you look back you can see a number of sample training days that I listed. Just use a variation of them.

Remember what I train will be harder for you to do seeing as Im taking 'vitamins' on a regular basis.

The main thing is that when hitting a single bodypart every 2 weeks you absolutely have to smash it into little bits to facilitate a recovery and also justify not training for 2 weeks.

Here is an example of my hamstring and calf routine from Monday

*Hamstrings*

Lying leg curls (straight bench not angled) - 20 x 15kg, 20 x 20kg, 20 x 25kg, 10 x 30kg

Romanian deadlifts - 10 x 60kg, 20 x 100kg, 12 x 140kg, 20 x 100kg

Single leg curls - 20 x 15kg, 20 x 20kg, 20 x 25kg, 10 x 30kg

*Calfs*

Hack squat calf raises (facing head pad) - 20 x 4 plates, 30 x 6 plates, 40 x 8 plates

Then Supersetted the above with Leg press calf raises

Hack - 30 x 6 plates

Leg press - 20 x 4 plates

did that a few times

Then

Hack - 20 x 6 plates

Leg press - 20 x 4 plates

Seated calf raise - 20 x 2 plates

did that twice

So on calfs the reps per set went - 20,30,40,50,50,50,60,60

bit painful after.

Someone asked me for a traps routine. I dont really have a routine as I train a bit oftraps on Delt day and also Back day

On delt day I do a few rear delt raises but at a very low angle so it hits the top of the traps as well

On back day I do

BB Shrugs

DB Shrugs - hands to side/rear

upright rows - bent over slightly to hit the peak of the traps.

All of these are 20+reps.


----------



## Tinytom

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> I`ve gained 20kg doing this in a month. 120kg now


Really?

Thats awesome. Better than me :cursing: :thumbup1:


----------



## TH0R

Tinytom said:


> Really?
> 
> Thats awesome. Better than me :cursing: :thumbup1:


Tom, is your bullsh1t radar broken:whistling:


----------



## Grim_Reaper

tel3563 said:


> Tom, is your bullsh1t radar broken:whistling:


LMFAO


----------



## sizar

Tinytom said:


> I thought Id post an article seeing as Ive had a few emails about this.
> 
> Firstly lets be clear when Im talking about my own experiences Im talking about a competitive athlete and all the ancillaries that would be used such as Gear, GH, T3 and the like.
> 
> Now while I do use performance enhancers the premise of what I will go into is the same for all, its how you adapt yourself to the plan that will dictate your results.
> 
> Basic Overview
> 
> The way to structure this type of plan means you need to take into account a few theories. Im not saying these are beyond questioning but its the plan I follow.
> 
> The way I structure my week is as follows
> 
> MOnday - Training day
> 
> Tuesday - Rest Day
> 
> Wed - Training Day
> 
> Thursday - Rest day/Kickboxing
> 
> Friday - Training
> 
> Saturday - Rest/cardio
> 
> Sunday - Rest
> 
> I follow a split over 2 weeks and I split my training as such.
> 
> Chest
> 
> Back/Traps
> 
> Delts
> 
> Quads/calfs
> 
> Hams/calfs
> 
> Arms
> 
> So 6 days training only 3 days per week.
> 
> This gives a typical training split as such over 2 weeks
> 
> Mon - Quads
> 
> Wed - Back
> 
> Fri - Delts
> 
> Mon - Hams
> 
> Wed - Chest
> 
> Fri - Arms
> 
> Then on the 3rd week you restart with a different bodypart. So the next 2 weeks could look like this
> 
> Mon - Back
> 
> Wed - Quads
> 
> Fri - Delts
> 
> Mon - Hams
> 
> Wed - Chest
> 
> Fri - Arms
> 
> but any combination is possible
> 
> The reason for this set up is
> 
> - More rest and growth
> 
> - More variation in training protocol and so more variation in stimulus
> 
> - No over training
> 
> Now I know what you are thinking, how can I possibly grow only training 3 days a week and only training each bodypart every 2 weeks?
> 
> Well on traditional training yes but now think about hitting each bodypart HARD every 2 weeks. for example how about this for a chest workout
> 
> Pec Dec - 5 sets, 20 reps
> 
> DB Press - 4 sets 20 reps x 3 10 reps x 1
> 
> Cable Crossovers superset - 20 reps high 20 reps low
> 
> Bench Flyes - 20 reps 3 sets
> 
> Press Flyes (5 press, 5 flyes, 5 press, 5 flyes) 3 sets
> 
> Bech press machine 30 reps x 5 50%Max.
> 
> Thats what I did last week. I got the 70 kg DBs up for 7 on the last set of pressing, I did 40kg on cables. So as you can see I dont do 'light wieghts' when I train. I just do MORE reps.
> 
> Now you can imagine this type of training can burn a hell of a lot of calories and also stimulate muscle growth. BUT if you were to do this for each bodypart and train a whole body in a week you'd lose muscle from over training.
> 
> Therefore you can see the reason for splitting down the training over 2 weeks?
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> Right now apply that to all your workouts.
> 
> Diet
> 
> Now think of this. When does your body repair and restore your muscles.
> 
> - in the gym?
> 
> - before training on training days?
> 
> - After training?
> 
> - On days when you dont exert yourself physically?
> 
> When would you build a house? When you are busy doing other things or when you had a bit of free time?
> 
> Now apply this rule of thought to diet. Therefore you would need the most calories on days that you rest in order to provide adequate repair nutrients.
> 
> Now when you think about
> 
> losing weight - less calories
> 
> Gaining muscle - more calories
> 
> So logically wouldnt you want to restrict calories on days you were making the most energy be burnt - Training days
> 
> and fill up on days you rest - Rest days
> 
> Anyone around the game for long enough will tel you that its the food you eat on the days before training that fuel your training.
> 
> So logically say you had a high calories day on a rest day and trained the day after you would have all the glycogen you needed but would be running a deficit which would facilitate fat burning?
> 
> Therefore my diet is structured as such off season
> 
> Monday - Training - Low calorie day
> 
> Tuesday - Rest and Recovery - High Calorie day
> 
> Wed - Training - Low calorie
> 
> Thursday - Rest/kickboxing - High calorie
> 
> Fri - Training low calorie
> 
> Sat - Rest/Cheat day
> 
> Sun - Rest/ medium calorie day
> 
> SO you can see there are 3 low calorie days and 3 high calorie days and 1 medium day.
> 
> SO around 40% of your week is in deficit while 60% is concentrated towards muscle recovery.
> 
> SO how would a typical low day look
> 
> 8am - 70g Oats, 20g Peanut Butter, 50g Protein shake
> 
> 11am - 200g chicken, 70g Rice or a baked potato 10ml Olive oil
> 
> 2pm - Same as 11am
> 
> 4pm - Extreme Mass (40g oats, 40g protein)
> 
> 5.30pm - Train
> 
> 7pm - WHey and carb shake
> 
> 10pm - 8 egg whites 3 yolks, wholemeal toast
> 
> High Day will be same as above but I increase the carb weight at each meal by 30g.
> 
> I also have as many fruit as I like on any day as fruit has important antioxidant and vitamin properties.
> 
> So none of this is really hard to do, of course you can subtitute different meats or carbs if you like.
> 
> Thats all I can write for tonite but I will update with supplement and vitamin rotations tomorrow


this is great thanks i just want to ask you something .. as you said have as much fruit and veg .. but aint fruit all sugar and it could make you fat .. for example an apple a day is fine. but or 100g berries but any more wouldn't be just adding more sugar to the diet ?


----------



## Tinytom

sizar said:


> this is great thanks i just want to ask you something .. as you said have as much fruit and veg .. but aint fruit all sugar and it could make you fat .. for example an apple a day is fine. but or 100g berries but any more wouldn't be just adding more sugar to the diet ?


If you look at the amount of sugar actually derived from an apple you'd have to eat an awful lot to get fat.

Short answer is no.

The benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Dieting for a show is different but off season is what this plan refers to. :thumbup1:


----------



## Guest

Greekgoddess said:


> I just thought I would say that this approach is working great for me, the fat loss is continuing, albeit slowly but surely and the muscle is looking better. My body, once top heavy, now looks more balanced overall. I feel much better for having more rest days and I am going to stick with this programme until at least the new year. I am posting two photos, one to show how slim I look overall, and another to show my improved body particularly my legs.....please forgive the weird halloween outfit lol.


Any excuse to post up your pics eh Janet?  :thumbup1:


----------



## ares1

Do you subscribe to the "no carbs after 6pm rule" on non-training days?


----------



## Tinytom

CarbWhore said:


> Do you subscribe to the "no carbs after 6pm rule" on non-training days?


Not at all. No need off season.


----------



## TH0R

Tinytom said:


> Not at all. No need off season.


How about if you super sensitive to carbs Tom, or do you feel that our nutrition

is on a 24 hour clock, ie late night carbs don't matter as they'll be utilised correctly

the next day


----------



## Tinytom

tel3563 said:


> How about if you super sensitive to carbs Tom, or do you feel that our nutrition
> 
> is on a 24 hour clock, ie late night carbs don't matter as they'll be utilised correctly
> 
> the next day


If you have complex carbs e.g potatoes or rice with some oil and protein the breakdown will be a lot slower and unlikely to give a massive insulin spike so no real danger of fat gain unless total daily calories already high.

In that case reduce daily calories so that you can have some in the evening and still meet your daily req's.

Obviously some people are VERY sensitive to carbs, myself included and therefore need less carbs in the day.

However cutting carbs out completly after 6pm, not necessary although I do understand the logic. However if you were going to go for a keto style effect in the latter half of the day I'd be cutting carbs from 2pm for example.


----------



## bravo9

As of monday im going to try this approach,, only thing i will miss is training sat/sun. Great post tom


----------



## Tinytom

bravo9 said:


> As of monday im going to try this approach,, only thing i will miss is training sat/sun. Great post tom


I do kickboxing on a Saturday so if you wanted to train that would be fine, gives you another option with regards to spacing out your training.

However missing training on the weekend will mean that monday you will be so full of energy and drive you'll smash that bodypart. Thats why I always train legs on a monday lol


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Tom,

In your diet, You suggested 10ml of oil with the rice and chicken

I measured this out today in my measuring jug but this does seem a lot of oil in one meal are you sure this is not a typo

cheers

kev


----------



## Tinytom

Grim_Reaper said:


> Tom,
> 
> In your diet, You suggested 10ml of oil with the rice and chicken
> 
> I measured this out today in my measuring jug but this does seem a lot of oil in one meal are you sure this is not a typo
> 
> cheers
> 
> kev


JUG?

10ml is about 1 table spoon so not a massive amount. I think you have it wrong on your scale


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Thanks again tom


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Tinytom said:


> JUG?
> 
> 10ml is about 1 table spoon so not a massive amount. I think you have it wrong on your scale


He must be measuring 10 milli Ltrs instead of 10ml e.g syringe (sp) type lmao we all have been there.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Tom is it right by lookin at this that there is no set in stone routine that you follow when you get in the gym e.g you dont go by a certain program you just say for instance train your arms with as many different exercises you can do until your arms are totally smashed while using various training styles like you said e.g drop sets, pyramids, supersets etc?

Also how long rest period do you give yourself between each set so e.g you have just done 1x20-30 reps how long before doing the other set of 20-30 reps as i was reading that it is good to give yourself between 1-3mins rest between sets do you think that this is right or BS as from what i was reading it says that you shoudl give yourself this amount of time otherwise your not working to your muscles best capability your just working against lactic acid and your lactate threshold (whats your opinion on this mate)?


----------



## Tinytom

Chris4Pez said:


> Tom is it right by lookin at this that there is no set in stone routine that you follow when you get in the gym e.g you dont go by a certain program you just say for instance train your arms with as many different exercises you can do until your arms are totally smashed while using various training styles like you said e.g drop sets, pyramids, supersets etc?
> 
> Also how long rest period do you give yourself between each set so e.g you have just done 1x20-30 reps how long before doing the other set of 20-30 reps as i was reading that it is good to give yourself between 1-3mins rest between sets do you think that this is right or BS as from what i was reading it says that you shoudl give yourself this amount of time otherwise your not working to your muscles best capability your just working against lactic acid and your lactate threshold (whats your opinion on this mate)?


exactly right mate, I just smash until they are done.

As for rest times I cant remember the last time I had 3 minutes break. Between sets is just how long Dutch and Mike my partners take to finish their sets. so if one of them dont turn up for a session then its shorter rest


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Thanks mate that is what i was thinking, at the minute i am training on my own as i did have a training partner but my interests and his have gone different ways i think as i want to consentrate on BBing seriously and get some quality size and strength and hopefully compete where as he is looking more to the whole TOTAL FITNESS concept if you know what i mean!

Last question tom, your rest days tues, thurs and sat and sundays i know you do kickboxin but lets say i wanted to do a bit of cardio in between my working days should i do them on these days or should i do them before brekkie e.g upon wakening and if doing them before brekkie how frequent would you do it and for how long and would you have anything or just do it on an empty stomach (reason i ask this is i have been told its best to have a protein shake before doing morning cardio as even though its goin to be in a fasted state etc if you dont have a protein shake you will burn valuable muscle do you agree with this or is it BS?)


----------



## Tinytom

Chris4Pez said:


> Thanks mate that is what i was thinking, at the minute i am training on my own as i did have a training partner but my interests and his have gone different ways i think as i want to consentrate on BBing seriously and get some quality size and strength and hopefully compete where as he is looking more to the whole TOTAL FITNESS concept if you know what i mean!
> 
> Last question tom, your rest days tues, thurs and sat and sundays i know you do kickboxin but lets say i wanted to do a bit of cardio in between my working days should i do them on these days or should i do them before brekkie e.g upon wakening and if doing them before brekkie how frequent would you do it and for how long and would you have anything or just do it on an empty stomach (reason i ask this is i have been told its best to have a protein shake before doing morning cardio as even though its goin to be in a fasted state etc *if you dont have a protein shake you will burn valuable muscle do you agree with this or is it BS*?)


BS in my opinions

If you are going to have anything then BCAA nd glutramine should be your choice as these will be the anti catabolics you need. Thats what I do.

A protein shake requires time to be digested, more so than the aminos.

Theres nothing wrong with a proteinshake of course but then you should factor in the time needed to be digested so that the aminos are in your system. Plus a whey shake will give you aminos you dont really want when doin cardio like tyrosine and tryptophan for example.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Thanks tom so i guess i will just do morning cardio b4 brekkie and have some BCAA's and also some glutamine then come home and have my brekkie shake!

do you put your oats in your shake or do you have it seperate mate, also i usually have glutamine in a drink which i drink while working out again cus i was told by a big guy down at my gym that this stops you going catabolic during workout is this ok or do you think that this again is BS?


----------



## Tinytom

Chris4Pez said:


> Thanks tom so i guess i will just do morning cardio b4 brekkie and have some BCAA's and also some glutamine then come home and have my brekkie shake!
> 
> do you put your oats in your shake or do you have it seperate mate, also i usually have glutamine in a drink which i drink while working out again cus i was told by a big guy down at my gym that this stops you going catabolic during workout is this ok or do you think that this again is BS?


I eat my oats from a bowl, hate the taste of blended oats.

Good idea to have a glutamine drink while training but can bloat you out, I would say that if you have some before that will be sufficient.


----------



## Tinytom

Just a bit of news, this article will be in the BEEF next issue albeit in an abreviated form so you can have a nice paper copy.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

I use to get muscle and fitness deliverd to my house once i paid a years subscription can you do this with beef?


----------



## Tinytom

Yes you can sign up online I think

Not sure of website though


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

thanks tom i think i will google it and subscribe


----------



## Howe

Great Post and Thanks Tom, Going to give this way diet idea ago! and possibly give the 2 week style of training a go to, the more i think about it the more it wil allow for recovery around rugby training aswell.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

Tinytom said:


> example back day as trained today
> 
> standing cable rows - 4 sets 15 reps (100kg max weight)
> 
> *Partial dead lifts* - 4 sets 10 reps 100kg, 180kg, 260kg, 260kg (6 plates)
> 
> Db rows - 4 sets 10 reps up to 70kg DBs for 12 reps
> 
> Pullovers - 4 sets 10-15 reps up to 50kg
> 
> Shrugs - 4 sets 20 reps up to 180kg for 10 reps
> 
> This workout was slightly different as we pressed the weight rather than the reps.
> 
> But as you can see NOT a light day at all. Just shows that when you take a rest from training back for a week or so you can push a bit harder.
> 
> Normally we'd do a few extra stes of pulldowns and such but we finished early because of time restraints. I would have probably done a few sets of close grip pulldowns if I had time.
> 
> I'll post up my shoulder routine on Friday.


why only partial mate why not full just out of curiosity.


----------



## Tinytom

Chris4Pez said:


> why only partial mate why not full just out of curiosity.


because Im looking to smash back and full deads engage a lot of leg and hip movement from the floor.

Also I always get a slight pull in my lower back going very heavy on full deads.


----------



## Chris4Pez1436114538

so if i was to do full deads then that would be ok as i prefer to do full deads so i have not got a limited ROM?


----------



## Tinytom

Chris4Pez said:


> so if i was to do full deads then that would be ok as i prefer to do full deads so i have not got a limited ROM?


When you perform full deads you are already in motion when you reach the portion of the lift that partials target.

Therefore you can power through that portion.

By doing partials you HAVE to dead from the beginning on the movement which brings in more fibres for the lift from stationary. In theory.

I do it to thicken up my middle back which is a weakness for me being wide clavicled and wide lat.

Full deads are fine I just dont like doing them very heavy.


----------



## Choppa

Hi have just read this article, seems to make sense to a newbie like me, is this regime suitable for someone who hasnt trained for a few years???

If not are there any suitable regimes i can do, can only make the gym 3 times a week and work split shifs and what supplements do i need to look at, i want to gain muscle but lose fat.

Thanks for any help and soz if this question is in wrong place.

Steve.


----------



## Tinytom

its suitable for all trainers you just need to adjust the exercises and volume for a new trainer.


----------



## MASSIVEMONSTER

How`s training going Tom? Do you feel you`ve made decent progress for 2010? Are you going to keep to this style during your prep for the NABBA qualifier or upping the sessions to weekly?


----------



## Tinytom

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> How`s training going Tom? Do you feel you`ve made decent progress for 2010? Are you going to keep to this style during your prep for the NABBA qualifier or upping the sessions to weekly?


I will keep to the same schedule mate as I have a pretty full week

When I went back to a body in a week before I was shattered all of the time, only can train 3 days a week now because of family committments and do Kickboxing twice a week so I get a lot of cardio in.

I have definately gained muscle this year with this schedule, although IM the same weight my clothes are tighter so definately bigger now.


----------



## 4NT5

Some great reading and thinking outside the box!

Tom you said when you did your back workout (earlier in the thread) you said you pressed the weight rather than went for reps that day.

Do you normally train using high reps with every couple of weeks throw in a heavy session for variation or are they equal 2 week reps, 2 weeks heavy etc or do you wait until you feel strong and abliterate that BP with a heavy session?

When going for a heavy session are all BP for those 2 weeks heavy or do you split it up hams and chest heavy the rest for reps, then on the next cycle quads with delts heavy the rest for reps, so you hit BP heavy but not in the same 2 week cycle?

I like the idea of trashing a body part, it's what normally worked for me.


----------



## Tinytom

josh - look at the link ive put in the shows section to the new beef the full article is in there.

as for being on gear and training 5 days a week - i dont do that. i follow the cycle ive laid out.

chest workout would be overkill if you do it every week but Im training every 2 weeks so ample time for rest


----------



## Tinytom

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/shows-pros-inspiration/85884-online-link-beef-magazine.html

Took me all of 10 seconds to find so you couldnt have looked very hard. On the first page of the shows section  :whistling:


----------



## Miller

Tom, what do you reccomend if you train 2 or 3 days in a row?

It looks like I will be playing football Mondays and then lifting Tues, Thurs and Sat (at least)

Would you just reccomend doing a higher carb/cal day the only days Im resting still?


----------



## Tinytom

Miller said:


> Tom, what do you reccomend if you train 2 or 3 days in a row?
> 
> It looks like I will be playing football Mondays and then lifting Tues, Thurs and Sat (at least)
> 
> Would you just reccomend doing a higher carb/cal day the only days Im resting still?


Yes the principle is the same mate, on your rest days eat up to fuel the workout days. You could have a higher carb meal on the first day evening to get some more glycogen in for the next day if you wanted.

Its not a bbing diet type protocol though so you should have enough energy from the rest day to do 2 days straight training.

INcreasing BCAA and Glutamine may also help recovery and energy levels if you take them at night.


----------



## Miller

fantastic, Im going to put it into practice for a couple of months, Im fed up of yo-yo'ing bulking and cutting

I was a fat kid in school so I feel down when I feel fat even when Im feeling strong, this seems perfect for me

looks like a good lifestyle change


----------



## Dan86

Very helpful good read!!


----------



## a.notherguy

Hi Tom,

With your low cal on training days and hi cal on rest days approach i was wondering how this would be tailored to people who train on a morning?

Would the hi cal day then be the remains of the training day? and the low cal day the rest day after?


----------



## Tinytom

a.notherguy said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> With your low cal on training days and hi cal on rest days approach i was wondering how this would be tailored to people who train on a morning?
> 
> Would the hi cal day then be the remains of the training day? and the low cal day the rest day after?


good point, no the low cals continue on the training day but I would have a high carb meal in the evening to help the body start to reover overnight.

The reason why you have low cals after training is that teh metabolism will be elevated so make the most of that as it will mean more cals burnt

obviously low cals is not bbing keto style just lower carbs.


----------



## a.notherguy

Tinytom said:


> good point, no the low cals continue on the training day but I would have a high carb meal in the evening to help the body start to reover overnight.
> 
> The reason why you have low cals after training is that teh metabolism will be elevated so make the most of that as it will mean more cals burnt
> 
> obviously low cals is not bbing keto style just lower carbs.


thanks Tom


----------



## steve_barrow

An excellent read that Tom, thanks. Think im going to try this and see what gains I get from it. Ive written out a PM with a few questions about it; but cant seem to find how to send one :confused1:

Have I not got enough posts yet?


----------



## Tinytom

steve_barrow said:


> An excellent read that Tom, thanks. Think im going to try this and see what gains I get from it. Ive written out a PM with a few questions about it; but cant seem to find how to send one :confused1:
> 
> Have I not got enough posts yet?


You havent got enough posts to PM mate just post up here and I will anser


----------



## steve_barrow

Tinytom said:


> You havent got enough posts to PM mate just post up here and I will anser


Yep, I thought that would be that crack. Ok mate, althuogh ive written out a bit of a beast! I'll paste it up now:

Firstly, I'll just tell you a bit about me. Ive been training solidly for approx 18 months now. In that time, ive put on fairly good amount of size, and now have a quite good top half and big'ish legs; but at the minute I don't seem to be getting great gains from the gym. Ive always had a little pot belly (since long before I started training), and training over the past 18 months has worsened this a little. I have been measured on the bodyfat scales in the gym, and according to that im approx 22% body fat, although I don't know how accurate that is. But basically I have a gut, which I want to try and slim down over time whilst still gaining the most size possible. Im 23, and weigh pretty much dead on 100kg and am 6ft 1" high.

Firstly, do you think your training/eating plan sounds like it will work for me?

How do you take your 10mg of Olive oil, literally measure out 10ml of it, and drink it as it is with your chicken at 11.00 and 2.00?

Could I do bits of cardio on the non training days, to speed up weight loss? Or would this have a bad effect on muscle growth?

When you have your large meal of 8 eggs at 10.00, how long after that do you go to bed? Is this definitely ok to do so late, with me already having a fair bit of excess fat?

How many slices of wholemeal toast do you usually have with this meal? Does this differ from high carb days to low carb days?

I want to have some gear soon as I think it's time, so would you recommend I stick with this diet/training routine when I do have some? Also, can you recommend a good first course for me to go alongside this? I obviously want to to gain as much size as possible; but hopefully lean out whilst I am putting on muscle, to decrease my belly. Is this possible with your training/eating plan and the correct gear/supplements?


----------



## Hera

Hi Tom

I really liked the OP. Helps break things down and you explain the theory behind it really well.

As my only exercise in the past has been cardio I'm fairly new to weights and didn't have much confidence in the advice given to me by someone at my gym. I now want to firm up...have more muscle!

If I were to follow a similar plan (with an amended diet as I'm only small) would there be any key changes to make as I'm a woman?

Sorry to sound naive :blush:


----------



## minidorian

hello, I'm new in the forum, but I4m not new in the body ( 10 years ). But I want evry time learn new information to bild more muscle.

In a bulking cycle ( with aas ) I want to train 4 days in a week ( Monday, Tusday, thursday, saturday ) with a diet low this days, high : wednesday, friday and midle sunday ( with 1 or 2 cheat meal ).

But I want to know if in the trainning day I can drink in the midle of trainning : 20 g peptopro ( hydrolisat casein ) + 30 g waxymaze ?


----------



## Tinytom

minidorian said:


> hello, I'm new in the forum, but I4m not new in the body ( 10 years ). But I want evry time learn new information to bild more muscle.
> 
> In a bulking cycle ( with aas ) I want to train 4 days in a week ( Monday, Tusday, thursday, saturday ) with a diet low this days, high : wednesday, friday and midle sunday ( with 1 or 2 cheat meal ).
> 
> But I want to know if in the trainning day I can drink in the midle of trainning : 20 g peptopro ( hydrolisat casein ) + 30 g waxymaze ?


Yes thats fine mate. Lots of people do that type of protocol


----------



## minidorian

ok thinks bro


----------



## minidorian

actually I'm in cutting cycle to prepare a competition in april, tomorow a put my diet will a do after the competition, to do build more muscle


----------



## minidorian

Ifinsh the period of competition and I sill start this diete 15 days after. I will be in the competition at 91 kgs for 1 m 76 and 35 years

*Day low* ( cal 3036, prot 342.2, carbo 289.9, fat 63.7 )

*6 h15*

25 gr hydrolisat casein

200 gr white eggs

1 egg

70 gr oats

1 apple

*9 h 15*

40 gr casein

30 gr oats

*12 h 00*

150 gr beef 5 % or chiken

100 gr cooked rice

300 gr green vagetables

10 gr colza oil

*15 h 00*

40 gr whey isolat

1 apple

*20 mn before trainning*

10 gr bcaa + 10 gr glutamine + 10 gr creatine

trainning at 17 h 45

*during the trainning*

20 gr hydrolisat casein + 30 gr waxymaze

*post trainning*

20 gr hydrolisat

25 gr whey isolat

80 gr vitargo

10 gr glutamine + 10 gr bcaa

*21 h 00*

150 gr salmon or beef 5 % or chiken

100 gr cooked rice

200 gr green vagetables

10 gr colza oil

*23 h 15*

40 gr casein

10 gr almande powder

10 gr glutamine + 10 gr bcaa

1 animal pack

*Day high* ( cal 3725.9, prot 300.8, carb 444, fat 59.8 )

*6 h15*

25 gr hydrolisat casein

200 gr white eggs

100 gr oats

1 apple

46 gr bread

21 gr honey

*9 h 15*

40 gr casein

30 gr oats

1 banana

*12 h 00*

150 gr beef 5 % or chiken

300 gr cooked rice

200 gr green vagetables

4 taost ( biscottes minceur )

10 gr colza oil

*15 h 00*

40 gr whey isolat

50 gr oast

*17 h 30*

40 gr casein

10 gr almande powder

1 apple

*20 h 30*

150 gr salmon or beef 5 % or chiken

200 gr cooked rice

200 gr green vagetables

4 taost ( biscottes minceur )

*23 h 15*

40 gr casein

10 gr almande powder

10 gr glutamine + 10 gr bcaa

1 animal pack

*Day midle* ( cal 3195.6, prot 305.7, carb 331.7, fat 59.7 )

*6 h15*

25 gr hydrolisat casein

200 gr white eggs

1 egg

100 gr oats

1 apple

46 gr bread

21 gr honey

*9 h 15*

40 gr casein

30 gr oats

*12 h 00*

150 gr beef 5 % or chiken

200 gr cooked rice

100 gr green vagetables

4 taost ( biscottes minceur )

1 apple

*15 h 00*

40 gr whey isolat

30 gr oast

*17 h 30*

40 gr casein

10 gr almande powder

*20 h 30*

150 gr salmon or beef 5 % or chiken

200 gr green vagetables

4 taost ( biscottes minceur )

100 gr soja yoghurt

*23 h 15*

40 gr casein

10 gr almande powder

10 gr glutamine + 10 gr bcaa

1 animal pack

What do you think about this diet ?

it's a diete for 8 or 10 weeks, I hope to gain a lot of muscle with a minimum of fat.


----------



## Tinytom

Looks good if you can stick to that all the time.

I would say that you should keep the protein and fats static and only vary the carbs for the best results from my type of plan.

BUt the diet looks good, more involved than mine thats for sure, mines just oats, chicken, rice and eggs with some protein shakes.

BUt I like things simple so I know if I change 1 thing then I know if it works or not.


----------



## minidorian

THinks bro for your answer .

Yes it's simple because it's easy to do. If you want to know what are you eating ( prot, carbs etc etc ) you will eat the same food. And your body don't grow you know what's you can pull up to grow more.

But some people will be think : " it's a little boring " but if you want result you does to do a diet simple for simply modification


----------



## minidorian

I'm in a diet and cutting cycle.

Before trainning a take 10 g gluta + 10 g BCAA

After trainning a take 10 g gluta + 10 g BCAA with my whey and carbs

I want to know if it's interresting to take in the trainning 20 g of peptopro ( hydolisat casein ), and why


----------



## minidorian

Tom can you tell me if I can do this for reduce the losing in a cut diet ?


----------



## Rotsocks

Fantastic thread Tom.

I have always trained with high intensity for short periods of time and never more than 4 days a week but i particulary like the idea of the low/high carb days which the more i think about it seems to make complete sense.

Anyway going to give it a go next week and see how i get on.


----------



## Tinytom

Rotsocks said:


> Fantastic thread Tom.
> 
> I have always trained with high intensity for short periods of time and never more than 4 days a week but i particulary like the idea of the low/high carb days which the more i think about it seems to make complete sense.
> 
> Anyway going to give it a go next week and see how i get on.


Thanks mate, its a pretty simple method to follow which is why I like it. Also allows me more family time and time to do my kickboxing so Im not living in the gym 5 days a week.

Just like to add that Ive added an extra training day on Sunday for a weak bodypart which is separate from the schedule so one week I train that bodypart twice the next week only once on the Sunday.


----------



## Rotsocks

Well into my 3rd week on this routine and really enjoying it.

Have split my body into 5 parts so training my whole body every 12 days.

I have always worried about overtraining but this routine has given me the confidence to really blitz each bodypart knowing that it will of recovered ready for the next session. Was doing 6 to 9 sets for small bodyparts and 9 to 12 for the larger ones but have now increased that to 12 and 16 respectively along with supersets,dropsets and fst-7's.

Enjoy the variation in diet with not having to eat the same amount every day and my weight has stopped the same but bodyfat has dropped slightly.

Tried the 20 rep range but couldnt take the pain :laugh: so working in the 15 rep range with maximum weight each set.

Tom was thinking of using this routine when i start dieting in June and doing my cardio on the rest days.

Do you maintain this routine when dieting or go back on a traditional split?


----------



## Tinytom

Rotsocks said:


> Well into my 3rd week on this routine and really enjoying it.
> 
> Have split my body into 5 parts so training my whole body every 12 days.
> 
> I have always worried about overtraining but this routine has given me the confidence to really blitz each bodypart knowing that it will of recovered ready for the next session. Was doing 6 to 9 sets for small bodyparts and 9 to 12 for the larger ones but have now increased that to 12 and 16 respectively along with supersets,dropsets and fst-7's.
> 
> Enjoy the variation in diet with not having to eat the same amount every day and my weight has stopped the same but bodyfat has dropped slightly.
> 
> Tried the 20 rep range but couldnt take the pain :laugh: so working in the 15 rep range with maximum weight each set.
> 
> Tom was thinking of using this routine when i start dieting in June and doing my cardio on the rest days.
> 
> Do you maintain this routine when dieting or go back on a traditional split?


I am dieting at the moment mate and using the same routine and doing cardio after workout and also in the morning.

Ive backed off the weight bit but have done more sets.


----------



## Rotsocks

Thanks for the prompt reply Tom.

Was going to keep on the routine for my diet so good to hear that's what you are doing.


----------



## Tinytom

Rotsocks said:


> Thanks for the prompt reply Tom.
> 
> Was going to keep on the routine for my diet so good to hear that's what you are doing.


Keeps you focussed while dieting mate, humdrum training whilst dieting only makes it more boring.

The need for more rest is especially true when dieting and doing cardio twice a day.

Many years previously I have trained every day and not looked half as good as when I backed off last year and trained 4 days a week with weights and twice with Kickboxing.

Dont be afraid of classes at the gym like Spin or Boxercise etc. people will scoff at it but its a good way of getting your fitness up and burning loads of calories in a sitting. twice a week wont burn up muscle, certainly didnt for me.

Overtraining with weights is more likely going to do that.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Tom,

Out of interest what's your comp diet look like


----------



## Tinytom

Grim_Reaper said:


> Tom,
> 
> Out of interest what's your comp diet look like


at the moment Im in the last 6 weeks so low carbing

100g carbs

400g protein

70g fats

Thats a low day

medium day I have 200g carbs

week looks like this

mon - low - weights

tues - med - rest

wed - low - weights

thur - med - kickboxing

fri - low - weights

sat - cheat - rest

sun - low - weights

I do Cardio every morning except saturday but I sometimes do kickboxing on saturdays

I also do cardio after weights


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Thanks tom,

Im roughly taking in about

100g of carbs

170g protein

100g fats

Im dieting at moment but not for a comp (no interest in that) just need to lose some serious body fat for my hols next month.

weight today was 94kg dunno what body fat % is but im not happy lol.

I tend to spread the carbs out to 30g per meal, mostly consisting of rice and oats

Protein from chicken and fish

Fats from naty peanut butter evoo or light mayo


----------



## TH0R

Tom, are you still following the original protocol ie 3 days per week, all body parts trained

in 2 week split and hitting said body part very hard??


----------



## Tinytom

tel3563 said:


> Tom, are you still following the original protocol ie 3 days per week, all body parts trained
> 
> in 2 week split and hitting said body part very hard??


Yes mate

although theres no massive weights being shifted now obviously.

My training is more towards volume than ever as I need to burn the calories up.

One difference is that Im now doing a bit of both legs each week so one week is quads with a few hams and the next week more hams with a little quads.

This is so cardio doesnt suffer from stiff legs.


----------



## BoomTime

love the theory on the diet but in regards to the training would this not only apply to the bigger lads lifting mega weight, eg my bench 1 rep max is 115 im (76kg at the mo) or would it work the same?


----------



## Tinytom

Mattchew100 said:


> love the theory on the diet but in regards to the training would this not only apply to the bigger lads lifting mega weight, eg my bench 1 rep max is 115 im (76kg at the mo) or would it work the same?


weight is relative mate.

to a beginner a 10kg db will be as hevy as a 50kg db is to a pro


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Dunno about you tom, but i'm starving all the time on this??

should i feel like raiding the works vending m/c all the time as well???


----------



## Tinytom

Grim_Reaper said:


> Dunno about you tom, but i'm starving all the time on this??
> 
> should i feel like raiding the works vending m/c all the time as well???


I dont hve my carbs till bed time mate then I dont get any insulin surge that causes hunger cravings

Today I did this

60 mins cardio

2 chicken breasts

chicken and spinach omlette with 8 whites and 1 yolk

50g protein pudding with almonds

45 mins cardio

2 chicken breasts and 100g oats

still got left

2 chicken breasts and 100g oats

that way I sleep better and will have energy for tomorrows training.

I dont feel hungry at all during the day apart from a slight hunger which was offset by a sugar free jelly.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Oh right, thanks tom ill try it that way round and see how it goes.

Can i just ask though,

6 x chicken breasts + chicken in an 8 egg white omelette,

surly this has got to weigh more than 400g protein??


----------



## Tinytom

Grim_Reaper said:


> Oh right, thanks tom ill try it that way round and see how it goes.
> 
> Can i just ask though,
> 
> 6 x chicken breasts + chicken in an 8 egg white omelette,
> 
> surly this has got to weigh more than 400g protein??


depends on the size of them.

They arent massive and I trim them down loads to get all the fat off.

In these last few weeks Im more concerned with the carbs being right than the protein as Im aiming for a shift towards fat only as fuel. Excess protein at this point will help against muscle loss as Im constantly in a deficit.


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Tom.

What's the difference in your protein amount from bulking to cutting or does it stay the same.


----------



## Tinytom

Grim_Reaper said:


> Tom.
> 
> What's the difference in your protein amount from bulking to cutting or does it stay the same.


I think it stays the same mate

Off season Im not too fussy about how much I eat lol


----------



## Grim_Reaper

Can i have 20g natty p.butter last thing at night with my oats whilst cutting???


----------



## SPIKE1982

Tom another diet question mate lol...Iv been following the principles of your diet i.e LOW training day,HIGH rest day as was training mon,wed,fri... However just lately ive found myselfe training two days in a row like Mon, Thurs,Fri due to family stuff etc so just wondering if i still would follow the same principles except have two LOW days in a row like

MON- TRAIN (LOW)

TUES- REST (HIGH)

WED-TRAIN (LOW)

THURS-TRAIN (LOW

FRI- REST (HIGH

Or would it be no good like this?? Just wondering your thoughts... cheers bro...


----------



## Tinytom

Spike - Yes same principle but Id have a higher carb day than what you would normally do to accomodate the 2 lows.

GR - Sounds fine to me mate, incorporate it into your daily calories and it should be fine.


----------



## jw007

Tinytom said:


> at the moment Im in the last 6 weeks so low carbing
> 
> 100g carbs
> 
> *400g protein*
> 
> 70g fats
> 
> Thats a low day
> 
> medium day I have 200g carbs
> 
> week looks like this
> 
> mon - low - weights
> 
> tues - med - rest
> 
> wed - low - weights
> 
> thur - med - kickboxing
> 
> fri - low - weights
> 
> sat - cheat - rest
> 
> sun - low - weights
> 
> I do Cardio every morning except saturday but I sometimes do kickboxing on saturdays
> 
> I also do cardio after weights


Lot of protein, some might say overkill??? :whistling:


----------



## SPIKE1982

Tinytom said:


> Spike - Yes same principle but Id have a higher carb day than what you would normally do to accomodate the 2 lows.
> 
> GR - Sounds fine to me mate, incorporate it into your daily calories and it should be fine.


Thanks Tom was kind of thinking that,was unsure thanks mate... :thumbup1:


----------



## Tinytom

jw007 said:


> Lot of protein, some might say overkill??? :whistling:


Its to compensate for the lack of donuts in my diet.


----------



## MASSIVEMONSTER

Are you expecting to come in lighter than previous years?


----------



## SPIKE1982

Tom are all the weights in your sample diet dry weights/uncocked mate i take it? Sorry if it sound a sill question, diet never was my strong point....


----------



## Tinytom

Massive - I doubt it TBH mate, Im not very far out and still around 89kg, I'll get some pics posted this week if possible now Ive trimmed my leg hair and hobbitish feet.

My off season mass mission definately paid off, even on diet my clothes are visibly tighter and my normal 'diet clothes' i.e. clothes I wear when dieting to feel big actually feel tighter to the point I dont want to wear them.

Spike - Weights are dry/uncooked mate.


----------



## robertmay

Thanks, great read man! Ive been doing ckd for nearly 6 weeks and got quite lean, was worried bout coming off. I want to gain some size but don't want to gain a lot of fat this sounds pretty sweet  )


----------



## Smithy12

Hi Guys.

I cant seem to view the original post that gives many of the tips about nutrition and diet. Can anyone tell me what kind of caloric and protien intake someone of 15 stone should be taking per day.

Cheers guys.


----------



## Tinytom

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/1143702-post1.html


----------



## ShiftyUK

Tinytom you are a legend, this guide is almost 100% perfect for me.

I am 5'7 stocky and 12stone 1lb. I am aiming to loose my belly fat and build my chest up.

I have quit the closest gym to me - insufficient stuff... like they don't even have propper weights to put on an olympic bar - which isn't actually an olympic bar LOL. (Student price was 3months £40 so what do I expect).

I want to loose belly fat and gain size in muscle,

My legs are strong and I like the diet/nutritional guide you have layed out.

I failed my last nutritional guide... lasted 4 weeks (my friend is a nutritionist but I just didn't get enough time).

Any advice whilst following this guide on my cardio? - a lot of Hills around here in Lincoln *especially steepy hill*. Would love to see what is possible.

Thanks. - much appreciated.


----------



## Tinytom

Hi mate

I do cardio in the morning before breakfast, steep hill walking would be good and I do incline walking as well but on treadmill.

bottom line is if you do more than you were doing and keep the diet same then you will lose fat


----------



## fat-2-thi-2-mus

Tom bfirst off GREAT READ Secondly... do you stay on GH/t3 all year round? and whats are your doses when taking it pre bed time on training days?

thanks J


----------



## Tinytom

fat-2-thi-2-mus said:


> Tom bfirst off GREAT READ Secondly... do you stay on GH/t3 all year round? and whats are your doses when taking it pre bed time on training days?
> 
> thanks J


i dont stay on all year,

doses are 8iu/25mcg pre bed on training days


----------



## Ak_88

Can't believe i've missed this thread, awesome read.

Skimmed through it but have a few questions Tom;

How would you structure eating for consecutive days training? In an ideal world i'd train EOD but currently i'm doing 2 on/1 off/2 on/2 off, so something would that come down to something like this?;

Weds - Lower - Low Cal

Thurs - Upper - Low Cal

Fri - Rest - High Cal

Sat - Lower - Low Cal

Sun - Upper - Low Cal

Mon & Tues - Rest - High/Med Cal

Any additional considerations you'd make for natty trainers using this approach?

Very open-ended question but other than trial & error are there any ways to determine your intake requirements? Since new year i've been cutting down after over-bulking so i'm keen to try an approach that'll not have me piling bad weight back on too quickly and subsequently i'm a little weary about diving back into high cal environments (if you see what i mean). I'd guess the only methods of monitoring would be keeping an eye on bodyweight & waist measurements for the most part?

Thanks :thumbup1:


----------



## Tinytom

Ak_88 said:


> Can't believe i've missed this thread, awesome read.
> 
> Skimmed through it but have a few questions Tom;
> 
> How would you structure eating for consecutive days training? In an ideal world i'd train EOD but currently i'm doing 2 on/1 off/2 on/2 off, so something would that come down to something like this?;
> 
> Weds - Lower - Low Cal
> 
> Thurs - Upper - Low Cal
> 
> Fri - Rest - High Cal
> 
> Sat - Lower - Low Cal
> 
> Sun - Upper - Low Cal
> 
> Mon & Tues - Rest - High/Med Cal
> 
> Any additional considerations you'd make for natty trainers using this approach?
> 
> Very open-ended question but other than trial & error are there any ways to determine your intake requirements? Since new year i've been cutting down after over-bulking so i'm keen to try an approach that'll not have me piling bad weight back on too quickly and subsequently i'm a little weary about diving back into high cal environments (if you see what i mean). I'd guess the only methods of monitoring would be keeping an eye on bodyweight & waist measurements for the most part?
> 
> Thanks :thumbup1:


Yes that works for me in theory mate. I'd increase good fats on the second day low though maybe a bit of peanut butter or olive oil added so that you arent dropping calories too much.

Yes its very much about trial and error mate. And some weeks will be different due to a change in schedule.

What Ive found is that I listen to my body more on this schedule as its a requirement rather than following a rigid plan, this is more organic and you can change it to suit your needs.

On my diet recently for the Portsmouth I didnt have a determined calorie intake for the day I ate as I felt for the day, Yes I had a rough plan of my meals etc and pretty much every day was similar in terms of diet but there were days that I felt very very drained and rather than simply sticking with the rigid plan as Ive done before I allowed myself another meal and the results were very good.

I think you need to be at an advanced level though to know what your body requires at certain times. This schedule helps you to do that.


----------



## fat-2-thi-2-mus

tom i have read in lots of places that long use of GH and T3 (low dose) can cause your insulin sensitivity problems...what would be the "perfect"/ideal time to stay on a low dose HGH/T3 cycle for...i was thinking 3 months on T3 and 6 months on HGH but how long would you break for?? and if i were to get my blood tests done while on HGH/T3 would it still be ok or would they have an effect? thankyou


----------



## Tinytom

I cant advise you on length mate.

I have seen no insulin problems with what I do, not yet anyway, if anything Im super sensitive to carbs, I carbed up for the Portsmouth on 3 x 400g a day


----------



## MASSIVEMONSTER

How many calories were you eating per day roughly Tom in your off season? My days of eating 5,500 calories and being stuffed all day are over, I am going to try a different approach - I am training 3 days a week now and this seems to be as effective as 5 days so thats good but I need to adjust my diet so I`m eating decent whole food, and not a surplus of calories just for the sake of making the scales go higher.

Cheers bud


----------



## Tinytom

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> How many calories were you eating per day roughly Tom in your off season? My days of eating 5,500 calories and being stuffed all day are over, I am going to try a different approach - I am training 3 days a week now and this seems to be as effective as 5 days so thats good but I need to adjust my diet so I`m eating decent whole food, and not a surplus of calories just for the sake of making the scales go higher.
> 
> Cheers bud


This is mine mate,

8am - 100g Oats, 50g Peanut Butter, 50g Protein from Pro 6 shake

11.30 - 300g Chicken, 75g Brown Basmati Rice, 10g Olive Oil

2pm - Same as above

4pm - Extreme Mass drink

5pm - Pre Workout 4g BCAA, 6 Krevolution Caps, 5g Glutamine Complex, I also sometimes have a swig of Liquid Fury as I get to the gym

6pm - Train and 20 minutes cardio

7.30pm - 2 scoops Build and Recover, 1 scoop Whey

9.30pm - Evening Meal, one of the following

Steak Mince Spag Bol with Wholemeal pasta

2 Steak Burgers in wholemeal buns

6 egg whites and 3 yolks scrambled eggs and 2 slices oatmeal toast

This is an off season lean mass plan and not a contest diet plan.

On non training days I add more carbs

I also have bits of Pineapple with each meal and an activia yoghurt with breakfast and before bed.

Not sure how many calories that is but certainly not 5000 and thats all I need to gain in the off season.

Certain anabolics could be used, for instance a small amount of Levemir with breakfast and after training and a t3 before bed with 8iu GH on training days may be used by some people I know.


----------



## minidorian

I saw a foto of you in competition your are very muscular.

I've you prepare some athlets in bodybuilding


----------



## Tinytom

minidorian said:


> I saw a foto of you in competition your are very muscular.
> 
> I've you prepare some athlets in bodybuilding


Thanks

I do help some people with their competitions, havent this year apart from 1 guy who I helped in the last 5 weeks, he's competing next week.

Ive been massively busy with the gym setup so no time really


----------



## Lois_Lane

Hi Tom.

How long did you use your training everything once every two weeks for before you changed the program?


----------



## Tinytom

Lois_Lane said:


> Hi Tom.
> 
> How long did you use your training everything once every two weeks for before you changed the program?


Im still doing it really mate

although Ive added a deadlift day in as well to enhance my back as yo know from my other thread on UKI

I find that the rest works for me and makes each week more interesting


----------



## minidorian

Do you think with you programme i'ts possible to gain 10 at 20 lbs of muscle ( but with litle fat ) in 16 month ?

Because I'want to compete in April 2012 and I want to prepare my programme : diete and trainninng.

Diete with I've read there is not very a problem, but I've any question with your routine.

I 've my last competition this week ( France final ), I'll be at 85 kgs for 1 m 75.

I like your routine, but you don't explain when you have muscle part less than other, what do you do ?

Think for your answer


----------



## minidorian

the base of my program will be this :

- 4 days trainning a week

Monday, Tuesday train

Wednesday rest

Thursday train

Friday rest

Saturday train

Sunday rest

- Sunday my gym is closed, not possible to train

- 1 week per month I work Saturday and Sunday

- my job is not very physic 90 % of the time ( I'm a lock keeper )

- For my diete, when I work, I leave with my mess tins for day and I return at home only after the training

- my train it's at the same time ( after work ) at 17 h 45

- I'll to incorporate cardio low intensity ( 20 at 25 mn ) 3 or 4 days the week

- My big weak points are arms and quadriceps, but if you want I send you ( if I can foto of the competition of this week )

that's i'll to do from july and for 16 month, because after it's teh diete for competition.

Can you help me my friends ?

thinks TT


----------



## Tinytom

minidorian said:


> Do you think with you programme i'ts possible to gain 10 at 20 lbs of muscle ( but with litle fat ) in 16 month ?
> 
> Because I'want to compete in April 2012 and I want to prepare my programme : diete and trainninng.
> 
> Diete with I've read there is not very a problem, but I've any question with your routine.
> 
> I 've my last competition this week ( France final ), I'll be at 85 kgs for 1 m 75.
> 
> I like your routine, but you don't *explain when you have muscle part less than other, what do you do ?*
> 
> Think for your answer


Dont understand this bit do you mean when a muscle is lagging in size and you want to bring it up?

Thats easy you make sure you train it first in the week after your rest days.

Or you could set aside a day each week to train that bodypart and take it out of the 2 week split

Or you could put in a few extra sets on that bodypart on a related day

i.e for shoulders you could do a few sets of DB presses on CHest or Back day as well as training shoulders. You wouldnt over train if you did 3 sets of relatively heavy DB presses on these days.

As for gaining 10-20 lbs of muscle in a year I dont think thats possible without the extensive use of peptides and gear. Even then it would be hard.

I aim for around 3-4lbs of muscle a year.


----------



## minidorian

Tinytom said:


> Dont understand this bit do you mean when a muscle is lagging in size and you want to bring it up?
> 
> Thats easy you make sure you train it first in the week after your rest days.
> 
> Or you could set aside a day each week to train that bodypart and take it out of the 2 week split
> 
> Or you could put in a few extra sets on that bodypart on a related day
> 
> i.e for shoulders you could do a few sets of DB presses on CHest or Back day as well as training shoulders. You wouldnt over train if you did 3 sets of relatively heavy DB presses on these days.
> 
> As for gaining 10-20 lbs of muscle in a year I dont think thats possible without the extensive use of peptides and gear. Even then it would be hard.
> 
> I aim for around 3-4lbs of muscle a year.


the muscle what are lagging in size is quads and arms.

yes I know without gear is not possible, but I use gear and slin. But peptides not, If i try the money and a good source from europe.

With the plan od the trainning who I've write can tell me an example of trainning cycle for 2 weeks. I want to try your method of approach for my 16 month bulking.

Many thanks TT for your answer


----------



## minidorian

dutch_scott said:


> unless your super alpha tiny toms new guinea pig!!!
> 
> serious guys give toms protocol a try, knows it back to front..
> 
> saved my poor gains:beer:


Can you explain you ?


----------



## minidorian

I understand your method of cycle trainning : more rest is more bulk.

But I want to know, every trainning your intensity is very high. To put a high intensity will you use biset, superset, HIT, reps pause .... in every trainning day ? Or you plan the method : 2 week biset, after forced reps ....


----------



## TH0R

dutch_scott said:


> unless your super alpha tiny toms new guinea pig!!!
> 
> serious guys give toms protocol a try, knows it back to front..
> 
> saved my poor gains:beer:


Having read the overtraining myth thread (ok, not all of it but I skimmed it),

I was a little confused as knew you'd been training with TT and this method.

Is it because of your advanced starting point that this method works so

well for you and Tom ie training body parts every 10-12 days, or am I just

way off the mark:confused1:


----------



## Tinytom

dutch_scott said:


> unless your super alpha tiny toms new guinea pig!!!
> 
> serious guys give toms protocol a try, knows it back to front..
> 
> saved my poor gains:beer:


 You're the exception, neverknown anyone gain muscle as fast

BASTARD :lol:


----------



## Tinytom

tel3563 said:


> Having read the overtraining myth thread (ok, not all of it but I skimmed it),
> 
> I was a little confused as knew you'd been training with TT and this method.
> 
> Is it because of your advanced starting point that this method works so
> 
> well for you and Tom ie training body parts every 10-12 days, or am I just
> 
> way off the mark:confused1:


I think the important part is that you train to your capacity Tel

For example if a 20 stone pro bber was to do this routine he could probably handle more weight and volume than I could.

Similarly a recreational trainer may not be at the level to do my type of workout without over training (burning out CNS) therefore you have to recognise when enough has been done that day and rest.


----------



## minidorian

minidorian said:


> I understand your method of cycle trainning : more rest is more bulk.
> 
> But I want to know, every trainning your intensity is very high. To put a high intensity will you use biset, superset, HIT, reps pause .... in every trainning day ? Or you plan the method : 2 week biset, after forced reps ....


Can you give me an exemple on cycling trainning TT ? PLEASE


----------



## Tinytom

minidorian said:


> Can you give me an exemple on cycling trainning TT ? PLEASE


an example of this Ive listed previously in the thread but here it is again

mon - quads

tues - rest

wed - back

thur - rest

fri - arms

sat/sun - rest or cardio

mon - hams/calfs

tue - rest

wed - chest

thur - rest

fri - -delts

sat/sun rest

mon - repeat.

I do kickboxing on saturday and Ive also recently added a day for deadlifts on alternate weeks so sometimes on the weekend I will do kickboxing on saturday and deads on the sunday.

But you can adjust it for your own routine, the major important factors are these

- 10 days rest per bodypart

- train to exhaustion/failure

- eat lots on rest days

I know that you will notice that the deads mean that back is trained twice one week. Thats fine because the rest you give the other bodyparts allows a twice a week training for a weaker bodypart

Thats the best thing about this routine it allows you much more freedom in your training and eliminates the routine of a body in a week which allows no freedom of training.


----------



## minidorian

Many thinks to your answer bro.

But I want to know, every trainning your intensity is very high. To put a high intensity will you use biset, superset, HIT, reps pause .... in every trainning day ? Or you plan the method : 2 week biset, after 2 week forced reps .. or is an instinctive every days ?


----------



## Tinytom

minidorian said:


> Many thinks to your answer bro.
> 
> But I want to know, every trainning your intensity is very high. To put a high intensity will you use biset, superset, HIT, reps pause .... in every trainning day ? Or you plan the method : 2 week biset, after 2 week forced reps .. or is an instinctive every days ?


I incorporate a range of techniques but I dont plan them out before hand.

It depends how I feel on the day but predominantely I prefer higher reps normally 20 per set.

On heavy sets the rep range is lower.


----------



## minidorian

Many thinks TT for yours answers.

Sunday is my competition day, last before april 2012. And I want to prepare my builk preparation for 2012.

I think I've 18 month before cutting, I want to put more lbs of muscle, but I know without fat it's impossible. But I don't want to be fat, take 30 lbs with 20 lbs of fat is not my objective.

For this year of competition I was a coach ( 10 month of bulking and cutting ), it's a good coach but he have to many athlete ( 28 athlete at the same time ), and I think it very difficult for every body to do personel coaching ( Especially for the competition ) with so much athlete.

I'm not a newbe in body, but I want, like evrybody love bodybuilding, to do progress everytime, and to learn for any technique, diete ...

I've my idea for the diete ( I put my diete future there frew month ago ), now I've my idea for trainning.

It's pity TT you live in GB, I think you are a great coach. I think, It's imortant to any boudybuilders to have exterior eye.


----------



## minidorian

My plan to the 18 month that this :

- I finish my cmpetition this sunday ( tomorow ), and for 2 weeks, I'll on lower diete ( p : 345gr, g : 200 gr, fat : 60 gr and 3000 cals ) because after 18 weeks of very stict diete, I'll must be eat some junck food. Not very much but a little. I'll do 4 trainning by weeks. 1 day the up, 1 day legs, rest, 1 day the up, reps, 1 day legs, reps. Why this, because i'll want to burn much calories. And when the week after a competition your body grow very much, it's a big window of growing. I'll do cardio 3 time weeks ( I don't know at this moment if is in the morning or after train ). i'll give you my paln diet for this period.

*Day low* ( cal 3036, prot 342.2, carbo 230.9, fat 63.7 )

*6 h15*

25 gr whey

200 gr white eggs

1 egg

60 gr oats

1 apple

*9 h 15*

40 gr casein

30 gr oats

*12 h 00*

150 gr beef 5 % or chiken

100 gr cooked rice

300 gr green vagetables

10 gr colza oil

*15 h 00*

250 gr collin ( fish ) with some vegetable

*20 mn before trainning*

10 gr bcaa + 10 gr glutamine + 10 gr creatine pepetide

trainning at 17 h 45

*during the trainning*

20 gr hydrolisat casein + 20 gr maltodextrine

*post trainning*

40 gr whey isolat

30 gr vitargo

30 gr waxy

10 gr glutamine + 10 gr bcaa + 10 gr ceatine peptide

*21 h 00*

150 gr salmon or beef 5 % or chiken

300 gr green vagetables

10 gr colza oil

*23 h 15*

40 gr casein

10 gr almande powder

10 gr glutamine + 10 gr bcaa

1 animal pack

the days without trainning I take a meal replacement instead the during and post trainning : 150 gr chicken + 200 gr cooked rice

And after this period I do my bulbing period for 18 month.

4 days trainning by week

mon : quads + calfs ( 3 or 4 set of biceps )

tues : pecs ( 3 or 4 set of triceps ) + cardio

wed : rest

thus : back + calfs + cardio

fri : rest

sat : harms + cardio

sun : rest

mon : shoulders + calfs + cardio

tues : arms

wed : rest

thus : quads + calfs + cardio

fri : rest

sat : pecs + 3 or 4 set of triceps + cardio

sund : rest

mon: back + 3 or 4 set of biceps + cardio

tues: harms + calf + 3 or 4 set of triceps

wed : rest

thus : shoulders + calfs + cadio

fri : rest

sat : arms + cardio

sun rest

with this cycle every muscle have 9 days to rest, the biceps and triceps is do a little more, and i do this with the TT advice to putt 3 or 4 set of them with heavy weight.

With a diete : lower, medium and high

If you have any critical with this ? Don't worry my mind is very open


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## Tinytom

Looks fine to me mate.

Calfs get hit a lot though?


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## minidorian

Tinytom said:


> Looks fine to me mate.
> 
> Calfs get hit a lot though?


I'll do calfs a lot more because I have a good respons when I do this, but It's just 1 exercice.

For you, it's ok to do my 20 mn cardio after the trainning ?

Many thinks TT, your answer give a lot of motivation.

If you are ok, I think I'll be on the good road


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## Galtonator

i must admit Toms ideas appeal to me a lot for my off season


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## Guest

you having vitargo PWO tiny tom/?


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## BrutalRaw

Hey T_T thanks for the post and some very good pointers .

Just Finished my Weekly shop that consisted of Eggs , Tuna , chicken rice, wholegrain bread and Oats now as im getting ready for trying this workout as of next week  .

David


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## Tinytom

I dont use Vitargo but have done in the past and it works well.

For me a build and recover works fine in the off season.

BR - No problem hope it helps you


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## james321

cheers for the post, like your take on low cal days on training days, makes sense when you think about it.

James


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## Rekless

great post!


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## RICH33

Ive read a fair few pages looking for info on cardio with no sucess so ill just ask about it,

Which days would be best for cardio? and how long and what intensity?


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## Tinytom

I do cardio on my days off training with weights


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## Galtonator

Got to say this approach seems ideal for my needs, so will be giving it a go after my next weeks off, so October


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## Tatlock

Tinytom said:


> OK I dont keep a log book but I do see the benefit in doing so as you can chart your progress over 6 months.
> 
> However people can get too tied up in their previous bests and this can lead to them trying to match a day where they had an awesome lift or performance every day.
> 
> Personally I think its good to take progress pictures and record some data but just be wary of being too meticulous with the record keeping.
> 
> Its good to see what you did in a certain week that maybe led to a good workout that week but this could also just be due to am adaption response from the body
> 
> e.g. if you train with 20 rep sets for a few months you will find that you get more endurance and strength over the set as the body adapts to the way of training. Then if you did a heavy set one day and only did 10 reps whereas previously your best on that weight was 4 reps you'd be likely to think that this was a combination of short term factors such as food you ate that day, gear used etc.
> 
> However its more likely to be an adaption response from the body to the high rep training so when you come to do heavier weights for lower reps you are actually stronger for longer as this is the training you have conditioned your body for.
> 
> As for the changing regularly, I still say only change your programme when you stop seeing changes, however the workouts should constantly change so that you reach that point at a later date, for example doing chest every monday will condition your body to prepare the muscles and nerves for chest on monday therefore it will eventually find a way to lift the same weight using less muscle fibres which is why you see people who do chest every monday in the gym never progressing as after a time their body becomes so good at doing the same workout that it becomes a non stimulus.
> 
> Bit of a long answer but theres a lot of factors.


This is exactly the problem i'm haveing i reckon....God knows how long i've been training chest and biceips on a monday.....No wonder my bench has stalled slightly...All though i did get an extra 7kg added on saturday on the last set by ramping the sets...

Been reading through this guide....And really think this would work well with me, if i could carry on gaining and loseing fat would be awesome...And i love high volume workouts...

Just need to get my ass up your gym tom, never be able to do all that volume/excercises in my garage gym...Ha ha


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## Tinytom

Bumping this for new members that PM me asking about my diet etc


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## &lt;JAY_JAY&gt;

Nice thread cheers


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## Sharp161

Tinytom said:


> Bumping this for new members that PM me asking about my diet etc


Not spotted this before, great read. One question though, how far above and below maintenance cals do you think you roughly need to go on the high and low days?

My brain finds it hard to be blazay about these things i like my diet to be meticulous and planned or i stress about it


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## Sharp161

If you could take a quick look at my diet i put together be much appreciated. Just to check am on the right track.

Worked out my maintenance cals is around the 2500 mark. High day on the left, low on the right.


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## pinkpen

Lifting 85% of your maximum ability for eight reps burns about twice as many calories in two hours.


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## faultline

A good read this, cheers


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## Tinytom

pinkpen said:


> Lifting 85% of your maximum ability for eight reps burns about twice as many calories in two hours.


Eh? That's pretty random.

So if I do 9 reps or 7 reps then nothing happens?

What about if I do the eight reps based over 8 sets. As in 8 sets of 1.

Or is it that the whole workout takes 30 seconds as in 1 set of eight reps?

Serious questions.


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## Tinytom

Sharp161 said:


> If you could take a quick look at my diet i put together be much appreciated. Just to check am on the right track.
> 
> Worked out my maintenance cals is around the 2500 mark. High day on the left, low on the right.
> 
> View attachment 100613
> View attachment 100614


Looks ok but remember tomatoes have fruit sugar in.

Also why have so much impact whey? Not really an issue just a question.


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## Sharp161

Tinytom said:


> Looks ok but remember tomatoes have fruit sugar in.
> 
> Also why have so much impact whey? Not really an issue just a question.


Im a delivery driver mate so im out the house literally all day, I have a short time when i get up for some oats and when I get in I have to eat as quick as poss to get to the gym or to bed so shakes are pretty convenient for me.

Job sucks usually up at 3-4am and home 5-6pm but good money so can't complain too much. Thats why all my meals are the same makes it quick to prepare.


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## rfclee

Tinytom said:


> I thought Id post an article seeing as Ive had a few emails about this.
> 
> Firstly lets be clear when Im talking about my own experiences Im talking about a competitive athlete and all the ancillaries that would be used such as Gear, GH, T3 and the like.
> 
> Now while I do use performance enhancers the premise of what I will go into is the same for all, its how you adapt yourself to the plan that will dictate your results.
> 
> Basic Overview
> 
> The way to structure this type of plan means you need to take into account a few theories. Im not saying these are beyond questioning but its the plan I follow.
> 
> The way I structure my week is as follows
> 
> MOnday - Training day
> 
> Tuesday - Rest Day
> 
> Wed - Training Day
> 
> Thursday - Rest day/Kickboxing
> 
> Friday - Training
> 
> Saturday - Rest/cardio
> 
> Sunday - Rest
> 
> I follow a split over 2 weeks and I split my training as such.
> 
> Chest
> 
> Back/Traps
> 
> Delts
> 
> Quads/calfs
> 
> Hams/calfs
> 
> Arms
> 
> So 6 days training only 3 days per week.
> 
> This gives a typical training split as such over 2 weeks
> 
> Mon - Quads
> 
> Wed - Back
> 
> Fri - Delts
> 
> Mon - Hams
> 
> Wed - Chest
> 
> Fri - Arms
> 
> Then on the 3rd week you restart with a different bodypart. So the next 2 weeks could look like this
> 
> Mon - Back
> 
> Wed - Quads
> 
> Fri - Delts
> 
> Mon - Hams
> 
> Wed - Chest
> 
> Fri - Arms
> 
> but any combination is possible
> 
> The reason for this set up is
> 
> - More rest and growth
> 
> - More variation in training protocol and so more variation in stimulus
> 
> - No over training
> 
> Now I know what you are thinking, how can I possibly grow only training 3 days a week and only training each bodypart every 2 weeks?
> 
> Well on traditional training yes but now think about hitting each bodypart HARD every 2 weeks. for example how about this for a chest workout
> 
> Pec Dec - 5 sets, 20 reps
> 
> DB Press - 4 sets 20 reps x 3 10 reps x 1
> 
> Cable Crossovers superset - 20 reps high 20 reps low
> 
> Bench Flyes - 20 reps 3 sets
> 
> Press Flyes (5 press, 5 flyes, 5 press, 5 flyes) 3 sets
> 
> Bech press machine 30 reps x 5 50%Max.
> 
> Thats what I did last week. I got the 70 kg DBs up for 7 on the last set of pressing, I did 40kg on cables. So as you can see I dont do 'light wieghts' when I train. I just do MORE reps.
> 
> Now you can imagine this type of training can burn a hell of a lot of calories and also stimulate muscle growth. BUT if you were to do this for each bodypart and train a whole body in a week you'd lose muscle from over training.
> 
> Therefore you can see the reason for splitting down the training over 2 weeks?
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> Right now apply that to all your workouts.
> 
> Diet
> 
> Now think of this. When does your body repair and restore your muscles.
> 
> - in the gym?
> 
> - before training on training days?
> 
> - After training?
> 
> - On days when you dont exert yourself physically?
> 
> When would you build a house? When you are busy doing other things or when you had a bit of free time?
> 
> Now apply this rule of thought to diet. Therefore you would need the most calories on days that you rest in order to provide adequate repair nutrients.
> 
> Now when you think about
> 
> losing weight - less calories
> 
> Gaining muscle - more calories
> 
> So logically wouldnt you want to restrict calories on days you were making the most energy be burnt - Training days
> 
> and fill up on days you rest - Rest days
> 
> Anyone around the game for long enough will tel you that its the food you eat on the days before training that fuel your training.
> 
> So logically say you had a high calories day on a rest day and trained the day after you would have all the glycogen you needed but would be running a deficit which would facilitate fat burning?
> 
> Therefore my diet is structured as such off season
> 
> Monday - Training - Low calorie day
> 
> Tuesday - Rest and Recovery - High Calorie day
> 
> Wed - Training - Low calorie
> 
> Thursday - Rest/kickboxing - High calorie
> 
> Fri - Training low calorie
> 
> Sat - Rest/Cheat day
> 
> Sun - Rest/ medium calorie day
> 
> SO you can see there are 3 low calorie days and 3 high calorie days and 1 medium day.
> 
> SO around 40% of your week is in deficit while 60% is concentrated towards muscle recovery.
> 
> SO how would a typical low day look
> 
> 8am - 70g Oats, 20g Peanut Butter, 50g Protein shake
> 
> 11am - 200g chicken, 70g Rice or a baked potato 10ml Olive oil
> 
> 2pm - Same as 11am
> 
> 4pm - Extreme Mass (40g oats, 40g protein)
> 
> 5.30pm - Train
> 
> 7pm - WHey and carb shake
> 
> 10pm - 8 egg whites 3 yolks, wholemeal toast
> 
> High Day will be same as above but I increase the carb weight at each meal by 30g.
> 
> I also have as many fruit as I like on any day as fruit has important antioxidant and vitamin properties.
> 
> So none of this is really hard to do, of course you can subtitute different meats or carbs if you like.
> 
> Thats all I can write for tonite but I will update with supplement and vitamin rotations tomorrow


Excellent info mate


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## theonlyjosh

Been reading through this thread this evening. Some great information here for my long term goals.


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## davemiller555

Very informative and detail, really awesome liked li. :thumb:


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## Dazarms

Awesome read and great info!

Please could you answer couple my questions mate

1) I am also 92kg at around 11% bf right now but goal is to pack on more muscle and aim reach 16 stone plus but sub 6% bf. So doing a lean bulk trying to grow while dropping bf

Will you plan work for this ? or is your plan more for dropping weight cutting

2) Im doing a 4 day split, I train Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri weds,sat,sun days off

Ive found this works great for me and I train very intense get in and out job done

Sunday I was having a high cal day setting me up for the Monday workout and then cyclng carbs rest the week.

With a cheat meal on weds night day off setting me up for Thursday training seshion.

Cheat of choice family size jar Nutella! prob not best cheat I could be going for in terms nutrion

How would a 4 day split work on your plan mate ?

Best post on here I have found since joining by a mile


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## Tinytom

Dazarms said:


> Awesome read and great info!
> 
> Please could you answer couple my questions mate
> 
> 1) I am also 92kg at around 11% bf right now but goal is to pack on more muscle and aim reach 16 stone plus but sub 6% bf. So doing a lean bulk trying to grow while dropping bf
> 
> Will you plan work for this ? or is your plan more for dropping weight cutting
> 
> 2) Im doing a 4 day split, I train Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri weds,sat,sun days off
> 
> Ive found this works great for me and I train very intense get in and out job done
> 
> Sunday I was having a high cal day setting me up for the Monday workout and then cyclng carbs rest the week.
> 
> With a cheat meal on weds night day off setting me up for Thursday training seshion.
> 
> Cheat of choice family size jar Nutella! prob not best cheat I could be going for in terms nutrion
> 
> How would a 4 day split work on your plan mate ?
> 
> Best post on here I have found since joining by a mile


Thanks for the positive feedback

The plan is intended for an off season lean gaining system so it would suit your needs. You just need to adjust the calories. I've changed it recently so I take more calories in on training days and less on non training which works well.

No plan will work perfect for everybody. This is just a new way of looking at things if you've hit a wall.

If you train 4 days a week the split would still work you'd just carry over 2 days to the next week. Or you could put biceps with back or chest and the same for triceps to reduce the training days to 5.


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## Dazarms

Tinytom said:


> Thanks for the positive feedback
> 
> The plan is intended for an off season lean gaining system so it would suit your needs. You just need to adjust the calories. I've changed it recently so I take more calories in on training days and less on non training which works well.
> 
> No plan will work perfect for everybody. This is just a new way of looking at things if you've hit a wall.
> 
> If you train 4 days a week the split would still work you'd just carry over 2 days to the next week. Or you could put biceps with back or chest and the same for triceps to reduce the training days to 5.


Thanks mate are you at all familiar with skiploading ?

It is something I tend to follow on a Sunday my off day.

would this be a good way to go for example

Mon - Delts, Medium calorie day as will have carbd up on the Sunday using skip load method

Tue - Back , High cal day

Weds - off low cal day

Thurs - LEgs high calorie day

Friday - Chest medium calorie day

Saturday - off low cal day

Sunday - skip load day,

then back round to Monday

Macros look something like this

Mon - 200

Tuesday - 400

Weds - 150

Thurs - 400

Friday - 250

Saturday - 150

Sunday - 1000g plus skip loading

whats your thoughts on this

will this help me grow while dropping BF with everything else in place. training,gear ect


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## Tinytom

That looks ok as a basic plan.

You'll have to mess about with the macros for a few weeks probably to see how it works for you.

I don't do the crap loading stuff anymore. My body hates it and I feel like crap after.


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## Dazarms

Tinytom said:


> That looks ok as a basic plan.
> 
> You'll have to mess about with the macros for a few weeks probably to see how it works for you.
> 
> I don't do the crap loading stuff anymore. My body hates it and I feel like crap after.


Yeah I have suffered from it in past

Im thinking just having cheat meal on sunday setting me up for Monday training day

Would two cheat meals a week be ok In your oppinon

Weds night non train and sunday

Clean cheat weds night and on sunday anything I want in moderation for a meal

Will play around with Macros couldn't decide if it was better to just have high carb days on all train days keeping intake same. or if cycling them would be better keep body guessing


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## Tinytom

Dazarms said:


> Yeah I have suffered from it in past
> 
> Im thinking just having cheat meal on sunday setting me up for Monday training day
> 
> Would two cheat meals a week be ok In your oppinon
> 
> Weds night non train and sunday
> 
> Clean cheat weds night and on sunday anything I want in moderation for a meal
> 
> Will play around with Macros couldn't decide if it was better to just have high carb days on all train days keeping intake same. or if cycling them would be better keep body guessing


I limit my cheats now. Occasionally is fine. If you're eating 1/15 meals as a cheat that's hardly going to kill you.


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## Dazarms

Tinytom said:


> I limit my cheats now. Occasionally is fine. If you're eating 1/15 meals as a cheat that's hardly going to kill you.


Whats your thoughts on no carbs pre workout

So for example

Eat chicken and rice meal bowt 2.5 hours pre workout

Then 30 mins before u train take in 1 scoop whey isolate with bcaa

During the workout 10g BCAA then 50 g fast carbs like Vitargo 20mins into your workout sip

PWO 2 scoops whey isolate

Then home and Eat your whole meal


----------



## Tinytom

Dazarms said:


> Whats your thoughts on no carbs pre workout
> 
> So for example
> 
> Eat chicken and rice meal bowt 2.5 hours pre workout
> 
> Then 30 mins before u train take in 1 scoop whey isolate with bcaa
> 
> During the workout 10g BCAA then 50 g fast carbs like Vitargo 20mins into your workout sip
> 
> PWO 2 scoops whey isolate
> 
> Then home and Eat your whole meal


That wouldn't be no carbs pre workout. The only way this happens is if you train first thing in the morning after an 6-8 hour sleep. Then I would say only if you take in BCAAs before and during.

I've done the vitargo intra workout thing and I get a hypo off it. I prefer glycofuse but actually I hardly ever use an intra carb drink. I prefer post workout so that Gh output is maximised during.


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## Dazarms

Tinytom said:


> That wouldn't be no carbs pre workout. The only way this happens is if you train first thing in the morning after an 6-8 hour sleep. Then I would say only if you take in BCAAs before and during.
> 
> I've done the vitargo intra workout thing and I get a hypo off it. I prefer glycofuse but actually I hardly ever use an intra carb drink. I prefer post workout so that Gh output is maximised during.


Yeah mate I like glycofuse also pre and pwo

What's your intake look like around u workout?

As in your meal before u train

Then any pre workout shakes

Pwo shakes

and pwo meal after training?


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## Tinytom

I've listed the workout scenarios in my journal and also in a recent thread about protein intake I think.

My pre workout meal which I have around 11am is normally chicken and rice with avocado.


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## Ukmeathead

Anyone had good results from doing this haven't read all the thread how would someone go about doing this that maintains at 2500cals also I thought it was total cals over a week that matters? So doing so daily wouldn't make no difference


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## RMD

Actually makes alot of sense..


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## Ukmeathead

How would I work out my overall weekly cals


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## Redbeard85

Interesting read. Needing to change my routine in a couple of weeks so will keep this in mind and bookmark for ideas.


----------

