# Getting shredded



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Its about time a made a log to keep on track with progress

Plan get lean - never been under 10%bf before so hopefully get there now!

About me - been training 5 years last 3 been serious 79kg probably around 15% bf looking to get under 10

Assistance - No assistance will be used no gear no fat burners just good old fashioned blood sweat and tears!

Please no gear talk in this thread.

Training plan is being suited to bring up weaker bodyparts and this week is

Monday

Wide chins

Close chins

Hammer grip chins

2 Sets each max reps (accentuate hang position)

Close grip pull downs

Pullover dumbbell

Stiff legged dead lift

Lying leg curls

Seated calfs

Tuesday

Incline flye

Flat flye

Decline flye

Cable cross over

Abbs

Leg raises

Cable crunches

Wednesday

Quads

Close stance leg press

Smith squats feet close

Leg extension superset with hack squats

Lunges dumbbell

Heavy stretching

Standing calf raises

Thursday

Off

Friday

Tbar rows

Bent rows

One arm rows

Shrugs barbel

Hypers

Saturday

Incline dumbbell press

Flat bench pause om chest

Dips weighted

Diet just now is currently being amended for cut and waiting for it from @dutch_scott

Cv is going to be 20 mins hit per day 30:30 on off in seconds (will be done on a empty stomach)

Will start cv once I get diet plan

PBS before cut

bench 130x1 is my max only managed 120 last week didnt go heavier

squat 200x1 rep 180x4 160x8 just above parrallel

deadlift stopped doing this tried it last week got 140x5 then 180x1 pleased with that


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

this was 2-3 weeks ago before a got carried away with eating donuts!



all pics below taken from training session last week









heres a most muscular pose from a few weeks back


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## Athletes Fuel (Nov 25, 2012)

Looks good! Any chance you could post your diet / macro stats once you've got it?

Will be following with interest : )

All the best

AF


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Is that you in avi? Any pics?


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2013)

Huntingground said:


> Is that you in avi? Any pics?


Looks like action man that avi does


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## Athletes Fuel (Nov 25, 2012)

Is the CV being done at different time to your resistance training? Just when you mentioned that the HIIT was being done on an empty stomach.

AF


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Athletes Fuel said:


> Looks good! Any chance you could post your diet / macro stats once you've got it?
> 
> Will be following with interest : )
> 
> ...


yes will be done



Huntingground said:


> Is that you in avi? Any pics?


not me in avi pics coming just now


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Good luck with your goals


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Athletes Fuel said:


> Is the CV being done at different time to your resistance training? Just when you mentioned that the HIIT was being done on an empty stomach.
> 
> AF


yes it will be


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

Have fun mate


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

some more pic whoring

all taken today lighting makes a big impact but oh well here they are



and a close up of legs quads/hams slightly lacking compared to top calves are really behind but their currently getting smashed!


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## boxer dog (Jul 16, 2010)

Good luck, watching this one.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

ok today was chest/abs

Incline flye

Flat flye

Decline flye

Cable cross over

Abbs

Leg raises

Cable crunches

shortened the rest periods, pushed myself every set! had a big pump all in all great session

diet today has been kind of maintenance diet just until i get cut plan

so todays food

morning 3 eggs this is usually 6 in a omellete 30g protein shake with heaped teaspoon of glutamine, bcas, vitc, and creatine (wheymans creatine!!! gonna have to buy new clothes soon :lol:

lunch 1 tin tuna 2 rolls, 60g shake

pwo 3 scoops whey 30g dextrose glutamine, bcas

1 protein bar as a snack

200g fish

next meal will be 200g chicken and about 50g rice

before bed will be having 50g whey, 50g oats, 40g peanut butter 4-6 tabespoons of evoo


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> Emailed u about 4pm re times to eat mate


never got anything bud could you send it again


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

ok so yesterday was legs

Close stance leg press top set was 174x10 (max on leg press) can lift more in other gym

Smith squats feet close (did squats instead) max set was 160x5 could have went heavier but was feeling fcuked

Leg extension superset with hack squats (no hack squat machine in gym I was at) so just leg extensions

Lunges dumbbell 3 sets legs are still burning today!!!!

Heavy stretching

Standing calf raises

diet was a bit over the place went out to pizza hut for lunch had 15 slices at the buffet! could have had more

there was a krispy kreme outlet opened in edinburgh so took a trip down there and had some of them


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

whats your current bf? you got it measured calipers or what has scott told you what he thinks it is?


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

How tall are you mate? I was 83kg before starting my cut and you look a lot bigger than me


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## baggsy1436114680 (Jan 23, 2010)

wow just goes to show what lighting, pumped up pics do as the difference is huge, good luck with your goals


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

baggsy said:


> whats your current bf? you got it measured calipers or what has scott told you what he thinks it is?


a had it tested 6 months ago in my gym was about 14% similar to where i am just now



WilsonR6 said:


> How tall are you mate? I was 83kg before starting my cut and you look a lot bigger than me


5ft7 a get this a lot am big but at the same time really light



baggsy said:


> wow just goes to show what lighting, pumped up pics do as the difference is huge, good luck with your goals


the pics arent the best and a didnt want them to be so that when I cut and show the difference itll be massive lol am sitting about 17inch arms just now :thumb:


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

right so thursday was off diet was high protein lowish/medium carbs and medium fat

friday was back

Tbar rows -- max set was 120x7 could have squeezed one or 2 more out but lower back was killing me

Bent rows -- max set was 120x6

One arm rows -- max set was 44x6 could go heavier but thats the biggest in my gym

Shrugs barbel -- max set was 160x8

Hypers


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

cut diet starts today so will update tonight on all meals and cardio


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

so today was chest

workout went like so

Saturday

Incline dumbbell press max set 50x4

incline hammer press machine max set 100x8

Dips weighted max set 22kg x 8

wake up 20 mins hiit cardio 30-45 seconds on 30-45 seconds rest

diet

meal 1 *(DONE)*

3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 *(DONE blended tuna in water n drank it fkn rank!!!!!)*

tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, handful nuts, 50g roughly

meal 3 *(DONE NO CHEESE)*

3 whole eggs, handful nuts, 3-4 small blocks cheese

Gym smash it!!!!

meal 4 *(done)*

protein bar, tin tuna, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 (still to have)

fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts

5 litres water minimum

went to a david llyods near me for a trial pass today am going to be changing gyms in the next few months after uni finishes

so a 12 month contract costs me 77.50 a month which a cant get cause when a go back to uni in august all be back at my uni gym which does a term time contract

so minimum they do is 3 months and it costs 93.50 a month!!!!!!!! plus a £35 joining fee WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

needless to say they can go fcuk themselves a wont be paying that

on top of that while a was there a have trialed it a few years back and when a did there was a sort of big guy kind of guy who is big up top has no legs and thinks he knows everything butts in and tries to tell you this is how you do it :death: the last time he gave me a lecture about squats and said that a would never make progression squatting the way a do well then a was sqautting 80-100 now am squatting 180-200!

so today was a lecture about chest first he complained about my range of motion "he was watching me and a didnt come low enough and that my chest is weak and that you probably fail at the bottom a goes thanks for letting me know that but a fail at the top triceps actually are the weak link" so next set a goes watch and tell me a took them right down which a normally do and cracked out 8 reps on 44s could have went higher but the next up is 50 which a only got 4.

so he ovbiously didnt seem pleased and then questioned my other lifts which a told him a squat 180 for 5 and 200 for 1 then he said ahhh how deep do you go was a pure cnut!!!!! then onto deadlift how much you dead a dont dead anymore but done it last week and pulled 180 for 1 a told him a dont like it n dont see it necessary which he then said it is a major compound bla bla and a said am strong enough and have built up a decent enough physique without it but a was looking to add it back in

he said a lot more sh1t just too much to write but thats basically it also commented on how a should be benching more than 130 at 77 and that him and 100kg cant bench double their bw but a should be able to was a complete f4nny a kept putting my earphones in trying to ignore him but he kept feeling the need to speak ffs and comment about form when hes big up top and looks like he doesnt train legs :cursing:

also to add the kind of mongo that wears a belt while doing dumbell chest press :laugh:

a hope the fukers on here and reads this lol


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

rest day today

didnt do morning cardio

todays diet

meal 1

3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2

tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, handful nuts, 50g roughly

meal 3 (NO CHEESE)

3 whole eggs, handful nuts, 3-4 small blocks cheese

Gym smash it!!!!

meal 4 (done)

protein bar, tin tuna, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 (having)

fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

ok so back on it today

fasted cardio 20 mins 30 on 30 off cardio is improving quickly also stopped smoking 3 days ago when started cut so thats helping too!

today was back/hams

wide chins

close grip chins

hammer grip chins

db pullovers

close grip pulldowns

stiff leg deads

ham curls

calf raises

blitzed the session diet going very well! suprised am coping to be honest with diet and cardio

diet stayed the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, handful nuts, 50g roughly

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts

then Gym

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts


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## boxer dog (Jul 16, 2010)

Laughing about your description of the typical bar room bodybuilder up and down the land, no legs, no calves, no symmetry. Nearly as bad as the young lads that come in obsessing about chin ups, finish their set then have a good look round to see if anyone is impressed!! You might want to throw in some fibre tablets into your cut diet, just a thought, helps keep everything moving if you see what I mean.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

boxer dog said:


> Laughing about your description of the typical bar room bodybuilder up and down the land, no legs, no calves, no symmetry. Nearly as bad as the young lads that come in obsessing about chin ups, finish their set then have a good look round to see if anyone is impressed!! You might want to throw in some fibre tablets into your cut diet, just a thought, helps keep everything moving if you see what I mean.


anno mate seriously he was a complete f4nny a proper know it all

everythings moving slower than normal where can a pick up fibre tabs was already thinking this last night


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## boxer dog (Jul 16, 2010)

Last time I did keto I got some off eBay. They were called lifeplan fibre, 440 mg x 200 tablets. I took 6 a day and they did the trick! (easy to swallow as well)


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

boxer dog said:


> Last time I did keto I got some off eBay. They were called lifeplan fibre, 440 mg x 200 tablets. I took 6 a day and they did the trick! (easy to swallow as well)


on ebay just now bargain hunting lol will have a look!


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

today was chest

didnt do fasted cardio got a horrible blister and lump on foot which made it very painful to walk but did a 30 minute walk instead after meal 1 which was 3 eggs

Incline flye

Flat flye

Decline flye

Cable cross over

Leg raises

Cable crunches

diet same lost bloat from stomach so far so not bad also tried to see where a am with strength on bench n 3/4 a 120 done 120 2 weeks back tho! not happy

diet remained the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, handful nuts, 50g roughly

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts

then Gym

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

Looking good mate, what's the theory behind the salt?

Must be a tough diet to follow, you feeling it yet?


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Like a Boss said:


> Looking good mate, what's the theory behind the salt?
> 
> Must be a tough diet to follow, you feeling it yet?


thanks bud

tbh am with scott a dont feel too bad was speaking to a guy in the gym telling him am low on carbs and he was wondering how but the fats do give me energy and dont really feel fatigued tbh


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

ok so foots healed today was textbook stuff

20 mins fasted cardio

Quads/Calves today

Quads

Close stance leg press

Smith squats feet close

Leg extension superset with hack squats

Lunges dumbbell

Heavy stretching

Standing calf raises

really good workout can really feel it bringing out my weakpoints in my legs which is great!

diet today

diet remained the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 65g of cashews while a was outside forgot to pack them!

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts didnt have time to make in the morning so replaced with 100g chicken fillets from outside

then Gym

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts

getting last meal finished just now

all in all feeling hungry in the night energys good moods good + training harder than ever!


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> Proud of u mate!
> 
> Any problems email me


couldnt do it without you! ma trainings harder than ever commitments high and am getting the results a want really happy so far


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Just seen this mate after speaking, look solid already good frame.

Agree with fat's in diet, ESSENTIAL and I've always salted everything


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## gujkhan (Mar 17, 2009)

Are you natural or have you used gear in the past?


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## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

gujkhan said:


> Are you natural or have you used gear in the past?


Refer to post in first page?

"no talk of gear please"


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Bad Alan said:


> Refer to post in first page?
> 
> "no talk of gear please"


said it for me! lol


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2013)

subbed, this looks promising.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

gujkhan said:


> Are you natural or have you used gear in the past?


wondered how long it would take :lol:


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Ok no gear talk but do you currently like to ride bicycles?


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

MutantX said:


> Ok no gear talk but do you currently like to ride bicycles?


well a do a cycled last friday 2 miles to david lloyds for a trial pass to be told for a 3 month flexi membership its £93! a fckuing month wtf and their gyms nothing great tbh and to top it all of a 35 set up fee to set up what ffs


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2013)

zak007 said:


> well a do a cycled last friday 2 miles to david lloyds for a trial pass to be told for a 3 month flexi membership its £93! a fckuing month wtf and their gyms nothing great tbh and to top it all of a 35 set up fee to set up what ffs


£93 a month? wtf? do u get to keep the bench after the workout?


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

right so usual stuff today

25 mins fasted cardio today kept hitting the stop button so in the end worked out about 25 mins 30-45 on 30-45 off cv is improving! can run faster and longer and not get tired as quick the quick progress may be attributed to be stopping smoking which will be a week tomorrow

was up at half 7 today fasted cardio after period one at 10-11 then in class from 11-1 and cant eat till 12 was fcuking starving! had a sugar free red bull in the morning to keep me awake and going blasted through the cardio

diet same as always

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 65g of cashews while a was outside forgot to pack them!

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts

DAY OFF GYM

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts

feeling a lot more hungry now a can feel the cravings slightly kicking in but am still going strong

whens cheat day @dutch_scott


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

DaveMCFC said:


> £93 a month? wtf? do u get to keep the bench after the workout?


exactly mate and a have had a trial pass for a week there before its really busy and a good few members!

if you sign up for a 12 month contract is 77.50 but even that is extortionate for the equipment they offer


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> 3 things I tell all clients
> 
> Craving is natural but your probably thirsty
> 
> ...


a nibbled on a 30 calorie baby biscut to rid the craving!

having lots of sugar free squash to quench thirst

a was expecting a answer like this and so be it no cheat days! time to get mentally strong as well as physically


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

Saw your photos... I don't understand how your 79kg.... I'm 13st and look skinny as **** compared to you. DON'T GET IT


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

sckeane said:


> Saw your photos... I don't understand how your 79kg.... I'm 13st and look skinny as **** compared to you. DON'T GET IT


think a must be about 77 now not checked though not bothered what scales say

a hold ma size really well for a light guy!


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

zak007 said:


> think a must be about 77 now not checked though not bothered what scales say
> 
> a hold ma size really well for a light guy!


Lucky bastad haha


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

sckeane said:


> Lucky bastad haha


a want to be heavier though for stregth and size!


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

nothing new to report today

20 mins fasted cardio 30 on 30-45 off cardio vascular improving day on day!

sugar free redbull pre cardio at 8 cardio done at 11-12 first meal in at 1

diet same as always

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 65g of cashews while a was outside forgot to pack them!

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts

GYM - BACK

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts

no hiccups or cravings today

had a *** from a friend today only downfall but hey its been a week and we all slip up!


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

going to be adding in l arginine today at 10g per night pre bed to see if maybe itll do anything for my height! also am sure itll be beneficial to my dieting

link:

http://www.futurescience.com/hgh.html

There are several problems with the use of arginine and other amino acids as HGH releasers. Their effectiveness generally diminishes with age, and with continued use. This has led some people to the opinion that amino acids such as L-arginine are weak or ineffective HGH releasers. This can be a dangerous assumption. In some young people, L-arginine may actually cause dangerously high levels of HGH release. Many young people use L-arginine, but it should not be used by anyone until at least 5 years after they have completed their long bone growth (unless they are under close medical supervision).

I personally know of one 19 year-old female who took L-arginine (about ten grams) before bedtime for one week. She stopped after one week because it was making her nauseous, which was an indication of an excessive level of HGH release. Even though she had not grown since she was 16, during the subsequent month, she grew an additional inch, and had a noticeable growth of her heel bones.

(Please note that this is an article about HGH replacement in adults. Please don't ask me questions about using HGH for gaining height. There are plenty of endocrinologists who specialize in that subject. As to whether L-arginine can be used to safely increase height in young people: The answer is that nobody knows.)

For most people, the doses of amino acids mentioned above (2 grams of L-glutamine and 10-30 grams of L-arginine) are about right for maintaining youthful levels of HGH beginning at about age 30, and continuing into the early 40s, and sometimes (but very rarely) beyond 50. In order to maintain its effectiveness, these amino acids should be used for about 6 weeks, then stopped for 2 or 3 weeks. The same 6-week ON, 2 or 3 weeks OFF cycle can be continued indefinitely. This cycling helps to maintain the effectiveness of the HGH release.

be interested to hear your opinion @hackskii

edit: other supps am taking just now are vitd 5000iu boron 3-12mg a day depending how a feel and Chrysin XY which a bought years ago and still had them sitting there so finishing that off 3 capsules/1500mg a day

and flaxseed oil which has omega 3,6,9


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> I'll chime in as useless and will also account for why u can't sleep properly
> 
> Please run things past me please
> 
> ...


yes was thinking growth plates will be fused now but no harm in trying eh?

pm me about l arginine


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## Irishtoonfan (Feb 14, 2013)

zak007 said:


> nothing new to report today
> 
> 20 mins fasted cardio 30 on 30-45 off cardio vascular improving day on day!
> 
> ...


Awesome thread pal! Ive been of the **** 3 weeks now myself and just started a new training regime! Quitting smoking and taking on a new training and diet regime is def helping me kick them, I feel like my positiveness and drive between, both the training, diet and quitting is helping one another.

So far on my bad craving days just been hitting up youtube the minute I have a bad thought and watch a motivation video / one them videos that tells you how bad smoking is for your fitness and body.

Been doing half hour spins for cv tho as Im awful at individual fitness.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Irishtoonfan said:


> Awesome thread pal! Ive been of the **** 3 weeks now myself and just started a new training regime! Quitting smoking and taking on a new training and diet regime is def helping me kick them, I feel like my positiveness and drive between, both the training, diet and quitting is helping one another.
> 
> So far on my bad craving days just been hitting up youtube the minute I have a bad thought and watch a motivation video / one them videos that tells you how bad smoking is for your fitness and body.
> 
> Been doing half hour spins for cv tho as Im awful at individual fitness.


you feel a lot better! just general mood and no feeling fcuked after smoking

unfortunately a just had another was with a mate out just now but hey a havent bought them and not needing one before bed etc

motivational videos have done wonders for me helped me kick smoking as well as diet do cardio every day without fail and stay focused to goals that and scott in ma corner!


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

You cooking the evoo in with your eggs or shooting it down like a man? :lol:


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

MutantX said:


> You cooking the evoo in with your eggs or shooting it down like a man? :lol:


before was having it in shakes and shooting it like a man sometimes do with last meal in sugarfree squash

now am putting it into my eggs and tuna cant taste it at all


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

woke up late today so didnt get a chance to do fasted cardio so done 20 mins post workout

diet same as always

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of cashews

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (pistashio)

GYM - Chest

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts

strength is a little down done chest today

Incline dumbbell press 40x15 max set (dbs dont go higher than 40s in the gym a was at today so just done high reps)

Flat bench pause om chest )max set was 100x4 maybe the rest pause played a big part and was done after dumbell press)

Dips weighted max set bw + 30kg x 8 (going heavier on this next week


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

was taken late evening after several meals so weight not accurate

also height not accurate had shoes on

it was meant to come out with bf but didnt so googled a bmi to bodyfat conversion

Formula: 1.20 x bmi = 31.68 + 0.23 x age = 4.83 - 10.8 x gender = 10.8 -5.4

totals 20.31 % bodyfat if the above formula is correct

a think it seems about right? many people think anyone with abs/or even top 2 showing is 15% but el toro on here proved that wrong when he was professionally tested


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm 19% and have a vague 4 Pac so can agree with the above.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> It's funny I usually have to play nice when people ask for body fat
> 
> Abbs clear out is usually 12-15 percent
> 
> ...


all in first page pics didnt get a chance to take new ones but looking the same and lost bloat from stomach will send progress update tomorrow



Spawn of Haney said:


> I'm 19% and have a vague 4 Pac so can agree with the above.


yeah upon waking a have a vauge 4 pack too but hard to see unless in the right lighting


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

rest day today woke up 20 mins fasted HIIT done

also done a 1rm of bench was wanting to test strength so hit 115x1 paused at bottom so not great before cutting was about 120-125

diet same as always

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of cashews

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (cashews)

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (these will be almonds)

done that test thing again today in a fasted state and without clothes on results below



using above calculator would = Formula: 1.20 x bmi = 31.08 + 0.23 x age = 4.83 - 10.8 x gender = 10.8 -5.4 = 19.71 so seems accurate

will get pics up end of next week and will test again 4-6 weeks into cut and at end of cut

weight started at 78.9 at home today using same scale said 76.9 at gym shows 76 so will stick with home scales for purpose of this log


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## bulldoguk (Mar 1, 2013)

i find it very easy to lose weight,and had to force myself for years to get to my weight which is over 13st at 5FT8" i want to carry on bulking and making myself bigger as id like to get to 15st which will take time but do you think when i get to that weight i can still achieve a cut look without losing too much of the weight ive fought so hard to get,ive never done a cycle and all my gains have been hard work,i started off at 9 and a half stone about 5 years ago and 13" arms to over 13st and over 17" arms.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Very interesting thread mate.

Mind if I ask a few questions? Just wondering how many calories under your TDEE you're eating, and how many cals you're burning through cardio?

I'll keep following this thread


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

dutch_scott said:


> He's over his tdee
> 
> That's very antiquated and useless way of prefixing a fat loss plan
> 
> ...


Oh right, sounds like I need to educate myself!

By hormonal responses, does that mean you're utilising/manipulating lowered insulin levels to achieve the weightless?

Ahh I see, lots of variables there that could make little differences, so no chance of a rough figure lol!

I'm genuinely intrigued by this seemingly unorthodox method of fat loss. Looking forward to the updates and the final outcome


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

dutch_scott said:


> Unorthodox? How buddy?
> 
> Keto diet
> 
> ...


Usually on here people say -500 calorie deficit to get cut. Haven't read much about people being in a surplus and losing weight, which makes this type of weightloss a bit unorthodox..

Does this keto diet have a clean carb refill at any point? Or is it just straightforward ketosis?


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

@dutch_scott Did you choose keto then because the client prefers it or you feel it's best method of fat loss?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2013)

MutantX said:


> @dutch_scott Did you choose keto then because the client prefers it or you feel it's best method of fat loss?


Good question Mutant.

I start keto tomorrow so going to poke my nose in this journal a tad more as well as Scott's own.

I too will be salmon heavy in keto as I believe dutch is.

The joys of £3.33 a kilo I suppose lol.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

bulldoguk said:


> i find it very easy to lose weight,and had to force myself for years to get to my weight which is over 13st at 5FT8" i want to carry on bulking and making myself bigger as id like to get to 15st which will take time but do you think when i get to that weight i can still achieve a cut look without losing too much of the weight ive fought so hard to get,ive never done a cycle and all my gains have been hard work,i started off at 9 and a half stone about 5 years ago and 13" arms to over 13st and over 17" arms.


you can get a cut look but to get to 15 stone and cut you will need a lot of mass which will be hard to achieve

it all depends how much lean tissue you have when you get to 15 stone


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> I tailor diets to fit what people do like to eat etc
> 
> That -500 is old and wrong across the world mate
> 
> *No refeed don't believe in it*


 :thumbdown: lol


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

scotts answered everything for me lol

so today no cardio done in morning sadly missed due to having to get other things done so 20 mins hiit done post workout very intense ramping up speed! top speed on treadmill for 30 and 30-45 off

today was back went like this

Wide chins

Close chins

Hammer grip chins

2 Sets each max reps (accentuate hang position)

Close grip pull downs

Pullover dumbbell

Stiff legged dead lift

Lying leg curls

Seated calfs

training plan changing so tomorrow will be a new game

diet remained the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of almonds

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (almonds)

meal 4 - protein bar, 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

zak007 said:


> going to be adding in l arginine today at 10g per night pre bed to see if maybe itll do anything for my height! also am sure itll be beneficial to my dieting
> 
> link:
> 
> ...


Well, in the medical world the arginine infusion test is used to test for GH deficiency, so yes, you will get a spike from GH using that, add in l-Ornithine work together to bump GP, but the dose is from 8 to 12 grams each at night before bed.

Here is a short read on the arginine infusion test.

http://ccpd.ucsf.edu/arginine_infusion.shtml

Well, there are several problems with keto diets that I dont like, and even though they work well, like all diets they will stall, not as it is anyone's fault, just the body trying to slow your progress due to it not wanting to give up its fat stores.

One problem with keto diets is the absence of carbohydrates, this over time tends to do two things, make cortisol rise, and slow the thyroid.

So, a refeed stops both of those from happening, and also fills ATP stores so you can exhert more energy in the gym.

The primary fuel for resistance training is glucose, the body can use ketones but the best and primary fuel is glucose.

In the gym when glucose stores are low, you will not have the staying power, and power over all to have a high intensity session.

Many studies have been on keto diets vs regular diets, but for the most part all diets have some form of carbohydrate restrictions.

Actually my favorite diet is the zone, which is 40/30/30 carbohydrates/protein/fats, the carbs are from lower glycemic sources, and the fats are a mix of 1/3rd of each saturated, mono, and poly.

The 500 calorie restriction is for every 3500 calories equals 1 pound of weight loss, that would give you a pound of weight loss a week if 500 calories were restricted.

Pretty basic really.

1 pound of muscle uses between 35 and 50 calories a day for fuel, so the more muscle you have, the higher requirement for fuel.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Once you match protein intake between diets, the one with more carbs is actually the one with the potential for a slight metabolic advantage.

- Alan Aragon


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dutch_scott said:


> Ill let Charles start this
> 
> Shall I put up Neil hill as dr layne nortons
> 
> ...


I could care less who is saying what.

Read my post again, you drop 500 calories a day, after 7 days you will lose 1 pound of weight, I did not say muscle, or fat, I said weight, and this figure is accurate and I use my words selectively as I did not want to be called by saying 1 pound of fat.

Nobody is saying anything about sleep, we are talking food.

I didnt even mention that 35 grams of fiber a day burns 250 calories either, just saying that I am not talking about rest, that is a given and anyone not sleeping well needs a slap.

Good rest promotes growth as you grow in your sleep and not in the gym.

So, again, the 500 calorie is true, no need to debate this is well known.

The timing of eating means nothing to this part of the equation here.

Again, when the muscles run out of glycogen and use ketones, it is a much less effective when doing HIT type training.

Nothing novel here, as glycogen is the preferred fuel for resistance training as well as sprinting.

The opposite is true for low level cardio, and sitting on the couch watching TV as this predominantly burns fat, not carbs.

I understand what it is your saying, you just didnt get what I said, its weight, period.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dutch_scott said:


> Ill let Charles start this
> 
> Shall I put up Neil hill as dr layne nortons
> 
> ...


I like Charles, but you took that video out of context, he was referring to a 500 calorie diet, not 500 calories less a day.

Would have been nice to use this in its context instead of me wasting 10 minutes watching something I am pretty well versed up on.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

nothing exciting to report today lol

20 mins cardio now 120 on 120 off fasted

first meal at 12

diet stayed the same

trained legs today

leg press deep max set 300x8 will put 320-340 next week

smith squats

squats 140x10, 150x5 < should have got more stopped early lost balance

lunges done on smith legs were on fire!

lying ham curls

calf raises < these got proper treatment!

trained with a friend ended up doing 3 sets single leg extension and 3 sets single leg ham curls felt really good!

post workout 10 mins cardio was meant to do 20 still waiting on confirmation if a have to do 20 mins post workout

done ham and calves yesterday new plan involved it today so what the hell

done weighted abbs to abbs were really pumped hahahaha was sitting all happy cracking poses in the changing room with everyone looking at me like what a cnut!

anyways update pics on saturday with weight update too


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> Fish oils added and maintained?


yes added since yesterday


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

ok so today was meant to be a rest day

got some good doms from quads glutes legs feel overall fcuked and weak didnt think ad be able to do cardio today but found the power inside and stepped my game up

so today 45 mins run hiit fasted (total 5k about 350 calories)

first meal in at 2 due to late waking day off!

diet stayed the same today

was meant to be a rest day but training plans changed so would have missed chest this week so done chest today

db incline press max set 44x12 dont have any bigger than 44s at gym

bench incline 100x6, x4 then dropped weight lower

flat bench

flys

then dips job done

forgot to do oblique work yesterday so done a bit of that too

post workout cardio 30 minutes slow state on bike


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

I have no clue what you are all talking about but I like looking at pics of half naked men! :wub:

Good luck zak007 be interesting to see how you go


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Craigyboy said:


> I have no clue what you are all talking about but I like looking at pics of half naked men! :wub:
> 
> Good luck zak007 be interesting to see how you go


am going to the land of aesthetics :laugh:

jk am not being serious lol


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dutch_scott said:


> Total rubbish! I stand by my UNi info and personal experience . U have to get to a stage the body gear starvation to need any t level increase. I never have nor has any client.
> 
> If people wanna eat cos mentally they like food then fine but IMO don't put it down to some crap about leptin etc. odd leptin levels are found highest In lean people.
> 
> ...


Its not rubbish, low carb diets can lower thyroid, and I will give you a little hint as to why.

Reverse T3 (rT3), and thyronamines are involved, don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.

Saying low carb or no carb diets do not affect thyroid function is false information.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Scott, are you also saying that low or no carb diets also have no degree of loss of intensity with resistance training?

If not, please explain.

Thanks in advance.


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## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

Mucho respect for both you guys @hackskii & @dutch_scott

But this dudes journal ain't the place for an all out science stand off :whistling:

As Harry hill once said "there's only one way to find out ..... FIGHT"


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dutch_scott said:


> It's not! There's a reason it's not taught at UNi or on any courses yet spouted by pub med Internet journal Heros!
> 
> Thousands get ripped on keto if total cals are adequate and meal timing an protein sources are mainly good based
> 
> Your info is PURELY read off the net. Never graded. Never done it yourself. How many clients can u show before an after. I can all three . Your go? Annoying me now I won't lie


I have done it diet stalled on keto, I added in carbs very slowly and started losing again.

If done right there is a way to get around this sluggish thyroid thing, and there are many studies that confirm keto diets and sluggish thyroid, this is pretty common knowledge actually, or in the States it is.

*As Danforth et al wrote, "&#8230;the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones."[Danforth 1979]*

Just naming one, I will let you know the secret on how to get around this one.

Lets not forget that I have been lifting weights long before you were a twinkle in your daddies eye, years ago actually, 38 to be exact.



dutch_scott said:


> Intensity is a percentage of 1 rep max
> 
> So no it doesn't or shall I tag a dozen who hit PBS during keto
> 
> ...


Intensity is not a percentage of 1 rep max, HIT happens to go to failure after a good warm up and it is not 1 rep max.

No strong men do keto dieting why?

Well, it is because during anaerobic training and especially high intensity training (many guys do this), it is the lack of carbohydrates that cause glycogen depletion, which leaves muscles unable to get glucose they need to produce ATP, the ultimate cellular fuel for muscles.

Now if you want me to explain why ATP is so important for resistance training I will explain that for you. :lol:

Short answer, compromise ATP, you have a net loss in the fuel that fires the muscles, one of the very reasons why creatine is used to support ATP production during resistance training.

More fuel, more intensity, more gains, pretty simple really.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Craigyboy said:


> Mucho respect for both you guys @hackskii & @dutch_scott
> 
> But this dudes journal ain't the place for an all out science stand off :whistling:
> 
> As Harry hill once said "there's only one way to find out ..... FIGHT"


I understand but the word rubbish was used, and Scott is not using any science at all, just a bit of bro-science which is unsubstantiated at any level of any of his debates.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

dutch_scott said:


> http://www.jissn.com/content/9/1/34/abstract
> 
> From jissm and I assume u know from being active in world fitness and educated and graded u know who they r
> 
> ...


study say that after 3 months, no differences were found in strength from tkd and western diet....so does this mean that there was no strength gain in 3 months...to me this is negative from a progress point of view?

Alright, strength didnt go down, but it didnt go up either.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

dutch_scott said:


> Nonit means neither group lost strength
> 
> and no you didn't read the results right
> 
> ...


good points. prob not best to read studies the second you wake up and are sitting on the toilet is it...


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## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

Kinda wasting the guys journal with a lot of rubbish. Go argue on msn or something like 10 year olds


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Dublin said:


> Was only asking, wasn't challenging you but thank you for replying.
> 
> Ive no backround in dietetics/endo ect, just read stuff by people who have, particularily Lyle McDonald and wanted to see your opinion on the matter as you clearly walk the walk.
> 
> Would you mind me asking if you measured any muscle loss on a keto diet without refeeds and if there is much variation in muscle loss in natty vs gear using with that approach.


Sounds like a very fair question.

I also have read alot of stuff from Lyle McDonald and he advocates refeeds in his UD2 (which I did for a whole year). He also had the science to back it up as well as real-world results from people who adopted his system, ie. UD2 was used by people who "walked the walk" as it were.

However the moderator @dtlv - who I consider no less an expert - has stated in the past that he considers cheat days to be of relatively little physiological importance when dieting. Read here:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/204190-binge-days-can-you-get-fat-day-9-print.html

However perhaps there is a distinction between cheat day and refeed which he can better clarify, since his comment was on cheat days.

PEDs will definitely greatly change all physiology and you definitely cannot adopt same dieting strategies and expect similar results. No chance at all.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I think that the trend now is for timed carb diets, one interpretation of this would mean eating carbs in a relatively small window post-workout. Of course though there are also other models for timed carb diets. Actually I'm doing one myself right now - the Carb Back Loading diet.


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## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing progress pics, you have good shape to you anyway to start with buddy!


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> Keto for nattys I don't agree with unless its ultra supervised with periodised resistance protocols
> 
> Add t3 and peds and no issues


Now I'm a bit confused though Scott.. what kind of general diet is a natty supposed to do to lose fat seeing as you have just stated that you don't agree with keto for a natty unless ultra-supervised?

And bearing in mind also that you have often championed low-carb diets for fat loss and are against refeeds.

Can you please elaborate?


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> I don't agree no. Nattys should use moderate carbs , moderate fats , high protein lots of bcaa and fibre and use cardio to increase metabolism
> 
> Drugged users can use hard no refeed keto as t3 keeps thyroid pumping and ramping clen and other stims are your energy . Guys in keto on stims r total pu55ys if they have no energy
> 
> Me for me I'm a freak I cando anything as my log shows what I do doesn't count


Thanks for that Scott. Nice to hear your take on it since you do this for a living.

I realise that you don't rate the Carb Back Loading diet, as I remember from prior posts, but does that extend to other timed carb diets?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

dutch_scott said:


> Intensity is a percentage of 1 rep max
> 
> If u held any fitness or science qualification ud know that
> 
> ...


Ok, because we are talking about intensity and duration of training, most guys are not into single reps, but the amount of percentage of failure, pushing till you can not get another rep.

Sure, the one rep max won't change, but when shooting for 12 reps where one guys has depleted glycogen stores, and the other has glycogen stores, his power will be higher.

This has been proven on cyclists in the past.

I don't follow Layne, I don't really know what he says, but dieting is one of my favorite hobbies and has been long before you were ever born, the way the body uses macronutrients is pretty simple, and it is the percentage of macro's that happen to be my favorite of all.

It also has to do with eicasinoid production, and prostaglandins, something of which you probably have not delved in, it is not all just for training, but good health, think less inflammation, and systemic inflammation here.

My kind:lol:

Using your own body for proof is not proof, after all I know of no man that ever lost 60 pounds of muscle in 12 weeks, I will use that in my defense.

Using this for your debate, just validates my point here.



dutch_scott said:


> Oh dear, please email my friend and worlds strongest man competitor jack macintosh on do strong men train on low or no carbs and performance. Ill laugh when yet your assumption based on the net look silly !
> 
> Books and journals, go he with not a grade to show nor the miles of walking, u cry so loud but on deaf ears it falls .


Not sure what you are actually trying to say here, quite conviluded, so I will @MattGriff I have seen his diet, he is a strength and conditioning coach, he does not use low carb, but high carb, pretty high actually.



dutch_scott said:


> And to let dave palumbo biochemist grad say a few key bodybuilding points
> 
> In the December issue of MD, Eric Broser wrote an article that listed 7 reasons why a zero carbohydrate diet is bad for bodybuilders. In it, he claimed that low carb diets result in no insulin production, high cortisol, low thyroid, low GH, low IGF-1, a compromised immune system, and impaired gene expression for muscle hypertrophy. What's the deal with these claims?
> 
> ...


In bold here, pretty much suggests what I was already saying, and why I actually endorse carb loading.

Also, that study was on: *Ketogenic diet does not affect strength performance in elite artistic gymnasts*, and thus holds little value other than for those that are not doing anaerobic high intensity training.

Simply put, a guy riding a bike but not sprinting will be fine with a keto diet, once on a keto diet and sprinting when glycogen depleted the energy wont be there to power the sprint with maximum performance.

I will try and make this as brief as possible to explain why carbs are superior for anaerobic training.

Lets start with Adenosine Tri-Phosphate (ATP), the immediate and ultimate form of chemical energy for exertion.

When ATP is used for energy, it loses a phosphate molecule and becomes Adenosine Di-Phosphate (ADP).

To keep energy levels up ADP must be converted back to ATP by phosphocreatine being broken down to borrow a phosphate to give it back to ADT (DI meaning the value of 2) back to ATP (tri meaning the value of 3).

But phosphocreatine is not unlimited, hence the reason why guys supplement creatine to aid in energy during high intensity anaerobic training.

The ATP-phosphocreatine system is short, and amounts to a full sprint of about 10 seconds max output.

The next pathway for energy is glycolysis, which kicks in after the first one (above) no longer can provide the energy needed for said training.

Glycolysis occurs when there is an absence of oxygen (duh anaerobic training is absence of oxygen) and uses carbohydrates (from glycogen and blood glucose) as its fuel source, and the byproduct of this is lactic acid (you know the burn thing).

The third is called aerobic system which is where it uses lower energy exercises like walking jogging, etc, something of no or low intensity, this is the system used during rest as well.

This allows oxygen to break down glucose completely and not have to worry about the lactic acid problem.

This system relies heavily on fats for its fuel.

This is why guys do cardio in a fasted state tend to do so well.

As you can see here, different energy uses require different approaches to the fuel that is needed to get the job done.

This is why fatty acids simply cannot be utilized quickly enough to supply the high-energy phosphates needed to create ATP in a glycogen depleted athlete using high intensity training.

Glucose is the most rapidly available fuel source the body has, and muscle glycogen is the most important source of energy to fire muscle contraction.

In a glycogen depleted state the muscles are starved from the most efficient source of fuel for high intensity training, with both ATP, and glucose being compromised.

In short, using fats to do the job that requires glycolytic activities just can not keep up with the energy demands.

It would be like having a small carburetor on a big engine that is starved for fuel.

In men (if my memory serves me correctly) between 300 to 450 grams of can be stored in the body and like 70 grams for the liver.

With weight training one can use about 25% to 40% of muscle glycogen, whereas a 30 second sprint can lower thigh muscle glycogen to about 47%.

So, as explained above, the evidence does not support it, and now anecdotal evidence from myself.

Low carb diets work well for me for fat loss, better than lets say the zone diet, but I notice this many times that once in the gym I could do the same 1 rep max, but training from 8 to 12 reps going to failure, I would lose 4 to 5 reps on a keto diet.

Also, after about 6 weeks for me, a keto diet stalls.

When it stalls I slowly add in carbohydrates very slowly about lets say an apple a day extra.

Next day a apple, then half a potato.

Then the diet would then start to work all over again.

Mystified me at the time, but now I know.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Sounds like a very fair question.
> 
> I also have read alot of stuff from Lyle McDonald and he advocates refeeds in his UD2 (which I did for a whole year). He also had the science to back it up as well as real-world results from people who adopted his system, ie. UD2 was used by people who "walked the walk" as it were.
> 
> ...


Refeeds, my view... in a natty definitely do not appear to do anything magical for metabolism long term, just short term metabolic changes during the extended post prandial phase. Loads of fuss is made about leptin, but people get confused about what leptin actually does (and doesn't do) in humans - leptin does not directly physiologically affect MR directly at all, it does not either increase or decrease the number of calories burned at rest.

What it does do is set off a chain of hormonal and cellular signals that lead to alterations in behavior, sensation and motivation, that when acted upon cause different behaviors that themselves alter MR - when leptin increases so does the desire to be active and to eat less, when it decreases the signals result in increased appetite/eating more and less activity. Elevations in leptin even after an enormous refeed on a diet are also relatively short lived, returning to previous values after approx 24 hours - do a massive refeed sunday, and by midnight monday/tuesday morning leptin will be the same as it was on saturday night.

This basically means that in humans who are free-living, i.e., have no set calorie controlled diet structure they are following, and are active according to whim rather than requirement, DO see changes in weight control and body comp when they do things that long term influence their leptin levels because the leptin alters their behaviors - but someone following a regimented calorie controlled diet and exercising to a tight structure will see no behavioral change and thus no real physiological one due to leptin from cheats or refeeds.

If refeeds do do anything that is positive it's to increase glycogen levels (and a small boost in thyroid), which in a non keto adapted individual (and full adaptation is unlikely to happen with a TKD unless you do a 4-6 week straight keto carb wash-out previously to adding the targeted carbs) are a an advantage for performance at multiple intensities. When adapted the case is different though and there is no difference to all but a tiny range. Also, refeeds are a fantastic psychological reward for a week of living like a spartan, and am convinced that many people could do with that boost during a diet to help them stick to it.

Anyway as you said, add PEDs and the game changes BIG TIME when it comes to dieting/cutting - multiple body fat regulatory mechanisms are altered by anabolics, androgens, aromatize inhibitors, slin, GH, GH releasing peps, T3 etc etc... I can't comment on personal experiences of how PED's affect diet response, but certainly the on-paper physiology says they should, and people who do use PED's show very different response to non users (obviously, or why bother with the PEDs in the first place!).

Lyle Mcdonalds ultimate diet seems to have some elements of IF, BL and nutrient partitioning diets but with a micro cycle of a week rather than a day. I can see it, and other cyclic diets, working for getting from an already very lean position to an even leaner one because of how they create long periods of hypoinsulinemia, but for anyone above 10% body fat I'd say it's unnecessary to adopt a lot of the behaviors involved unless very highly insulin insensitive.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> I don't agree no. *Nattys should use moderate carbs , moderate fats , high protein lots of bcaa and fibre and use cardio to increase metabolism *
> 
> *
> *
> ...


Pretty much agree here, moderate carbs, moderate fats and above average protein intake seem to work best for most natties. Seems by far the best diet in non training individuals just looking to recomp through diet alone too.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

For the performance effects of very low carb/keto diets vs moderate or higher carbs, there are two conditions to consider IMO - when fat adapted and when not yet fat adapted.

While it only takes around 3-5 days of swapping out carbs for fat to switch to ketone utilization, the full range of physiological adaptations to ketosis actually take around 4-6 weeks to stabilize, and during this adaptation phase certain areas of performance are very much impaired - maximal exercise performance over a wide range of VO2 maxes and intensities is lowered, as is cognitive performance over every area tested except attention span (which increases).

Once the adaption phase is complete though there appears to be a reversal of the decrements in performance for most of these measures. Cognitively it's only really complex processing which appears ever-so-slightly impaired, and physically it's only the duration of time one can sustain maximal performance in the lactate/glycolytic phase that still seems slightly shorter - adaptive phase impairments to aerobic thresholds seem to totally disappear. This adaptation makes sense when you see how ketosis promotes selective tissue insulin insensitivity, and helps to shuttle all glucose to storage as glycogen in the liver, thus sparing it for the kind of exercise intensity whereby it is most needed.

Once adapted to ketosis, maximal strength for resistance training should be fine, and the only negative effects should be seen in activities where single bout sustained maximal effort induces failure at around 60-180 secs - sprinting, swimming as fast as possible, continuous tension drop sets, circuit training with weights or plyo exercises etc. Normal modes of weight training should remain relatively unimpaired because of rest between reps and sets allowing adequate ATP recovery.

My own personal observations on keto (cyclic and straight) are that in the first few days I feel like I just want to cry, then that gets better but I'm disproportionately tired after exercise for a few weeks, but then that does kind of disappear too. What I do suffer from even in the latter stages and until I add the carbs back properly is how far I can sprint at full pace. I don't run on a track so don't have precise measurements, but I'm generally the distance between two street lamps shorter before my legs give. If I do a refeed then the effect is noticably better if sprinting the next day, even at the two-three month point of following keto.

I now no longer follow keto diets btw, but that's because I don't have issues with carbs and can get to 8-9% body fat (by the calipers) without restricting them. I have a good insulin sensitivity (or did when I last had a fasting glucose test about three years ago), and seem to cut well on roughly 40% energy intake from carbs (fats and protein usually roughly about 30% each). I also get migraines and a few digestive issues with high fat meals and that also makes keto diets uncomfortable for me personally.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

a welcome all information very information from scott hacks and dltv! but keep it clean guys this is a log if you hadnt noticed not somewhere to throw all your dummies out!

that said now its back to business

energy wise feeling hungry/ want carbs not too bad now am having chicken which is filling me up

diets changed slightly dropped protein bar so thats about 20g carbs less having peanut butter instead of nuts in the morning

diet remained the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of almonds --> this is now 30-40g pb

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (almonds)

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo -->> protein bar is now gone

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)

training today was back

started off with shrugs max set 160x5

chins max set 20kg x6

deadlifts max set 140x5 lower back pump and laziness dissapointed here let myself down!

db row max set 44x10 ( dont have any heavier at gym)

chins bodyweight max set 15

then 20 mins cardio which a missed in the morning

then finished off with abs job done!

cravings ok nothing too bad! hunger pans in between meals sometimes a can feel a want carbs but it goes after a meal


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> Don't know if you agree but easily manageable in day to day life, energy levels if structured around training allows for maximum pre training energy and post glycogen storage. No lack of vitamins and minerals. I don't believe nattys can assimilate 3-400g of protein so that puts kidney stress out of the window, and one can add cheat meals in to macros in an iifiym if they are mentally challenged.
> 
> I think the reason this has been around so long is it works for the majority looking to attain a lean physique and not become a slave to a harsh dieting platform which breaks many.
> 
> Very good posts on leptin etc as always .


I do agree, I think for most that kind of approach works well - is only the extremely insulin insensitive who might do better from very low carb at higher body fats IMO. I do think that some extra jiggery-pokery nutrient timing/restriction magic may be required to get to very low body fat levels though even for the insulin sensitive - say sub ten percent for a guy or sub 12-15 percent or so for a gal. Is harder to cut at low b/fat for sure.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

zak007 said:


> a welcome all information very information from scott hacks and dltv! but keep it clean guys this is a log if you hadnt noticed not somewhere to throw all your dummies out!
> 
> that said now its back to business
> 
> ...


Sorry for the hyjack.

I do have a question in regards to your training.

Is there a reason why you do shrugs first before your dead lifts?

Just asking because the shrugs being done first would tax the lower back some, possibly compromising the dead, which would be my priority.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Sorry for the hyjack.
> 
> I do have a question in regards to your training.
> 
> ...


its fine its good to learn theres more than 1 way to skin a cat with the same diet but doing refeeds or none etc

cant really comment on the training part its the way scott laid it out


----------



## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

I have been mentioned but cannot be bothered to trawl through ha ha.

Can someone sum up for me and I will add (or indeed not add) as far as my own knowledge base goes.


----------



## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> I mentioned when iv been with jack Phillips macintosh he'd been given a low carb high fat high protein training plan and had got stronger and leaner. So can be done. Then Hak mentioned u


I was chatting to Jack a few weeks ago about this actually as he is working closely with Exertrain (sp) for some shoots etc, he mentioned (in his words) he was getting "Ripperdish" ha ha.

He is looking bulkier now though for Giants live


----------



## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> I'm hoping to get some training from him soon ish! Soon as he replies to my message lol
> 
> Are u competing at bodypower?


Yeah, I'm in the heavies on the Sunday - pop and say hi if you get a chance, had some good chinwags with yourself and like your humor (and how serious people take it).



dutch_scott said:


> I missed that bit did he say "ripperdish"
> 
> I see his injury is behind him and he's lifting big deads now! How's your training going?


He did indeed, it was at my co-owners comp he pulled 400kg in comp for the first time - top bloke, very down to earth (also tall).

Training is excellent thanks, had a daughter 7 weeks back so not ideal as competing this Sunday but as you well know the kids come first. How about yourself?


----------



## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> Seven weeks wow , it is bliss having a little girl puts alot of things into perspective! Congrats mate! My daddy's stronger than yours is an easy win for her!!!


Doesn't it just! I have a lad already but its somehow easier with him, Batman, the Avengers and sport etc. I'm gonna be bad when she is a teen ha ha!


----------



## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> A . What Scott and I r sayin is very valid argument and counter argument. Many should read and would answer hundred of questions pro and con diets. It's nonsense to call it rubbish , have u read our posts? *shakes head*
> 
> B. he's my client and its valid as I set his diet and training
> 
> C. It's not an argument it's a debate


-a. "Valid argument" + "counter argument" as stated in point (C.) "it's not an argument it's a debate" make up your mind, you can't even make a valid point so you can *shake head* all you want

-b.hes your client so I can see why you would want to show your knowledge.fair play.....but still, it's a journel not your high horse journel.

-c. Can't be bothered writing anymore I have better things to do them flex my knowledge muscle on-line like a keyboard Olympian.

Good day to you sir


----------



## grant hunter (Apr 21, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> You have better things to do? I applaud you as it's obvious you must be very knowledgeable and far too learned to have posted anything of interest here. I see that now. My mistake.
> 
> God I wish I hadn't clicked your username then things you've commented on


STALKER??? MUCH???? Bet you have facebook ya creep


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@dtlv - I can see that Scott and yourself are in agreement that generally a moderate protein, moderate fat, high protein diet is good for fat loss for most natties. But you do nevertheless mention that insulin-resistant subjects would benefit from low-carb diets.

You also mentioned how you had a fasting glucose test to measure your insulin sensitivity. Do you think that more of us should have such tests performed in order to better zero in on correct dieting strategy?

This is what I found looking quickly on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_resistance#Diagnosis

Summarising very quickly the relevant sections speak about the following methods for assessing insulin resistance/sensitivity:

Hyperinsulinemic euglycemic clamp

Modified Insulin Suppression Test

Quantitative insulin sensitivity check index

The last method seems to be the easiest to perform.

However there is also genetic testing which can be performed which can help identify the ideal diet to follow for fat loss. Here's a link:

http://www.theheart.org/article/1053429.do

What are your thoughts?

It's apparent that there is no one-size-fits-all diet. Is it worth testing ourselves and then taking out the guesswork totally?


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> @dtlv - I can see that Scott and yourself are in agreement that generally a moderate protein, moderate fat, high protein diet is good for fat loss for most natties. But you do nevertheless mention that insulin-resistant subjects would benefit from low-carb diets.
> 
> You also mentioned how you had a fasting glucose test to measure your insulin sensitivity. Do you think that more of us should have such tests performed in order to better zero in on correct dieting strategy?
> 
> ...


In my opinion, yes defintely, knowing your type can help.

I think glucose tolerance testing/insulin sensitivity testing or genetic screening is a good idea for someone starting out as it would help them avoid a huge load of trial and error finding what kind of diet template is gonna be the best basis for their personalized diet... but many guys who have been through more than just one or two cuts have through trial and error figured out their relationship with carbs, and know what diet works best for them even if they don't see it in terms of insulin sensitivity. For them the results of a test would probably only tell them to select the diet they know works best for them anyway.

A link to an early post of mine that discusses the genetic test briefly and also the effects of various genes upon carb and fat metabolism in dieting, and then a second link also looking at how insulin sensitivity affects the outcome diets with varying carb content -

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/161198-fat-loss-diets-your-genes.html

http://graemethomasonline.com/low-carb-or-low-fat-let-science-settle-the-debate/

Incidentally, the macro split I like best for using as a start point for non bodybuilders is pretty close to the Zone Diet, with around 40/30/30 c/p/f - but am more recently starting to see this as a good choice for natural bb'ers too as a starting point for a lean bulk or gentle cutting diet set of macros (I say start point because most people will need to tweak to optimize, but probably won't need to go too far from it).

Is not just about the crude macro's IMO though - sugar/HFCS should still be controlled, fatty acids should include a good ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fats, and care should be taken to avoid excessive sat fats, hydrogenated fats and transfats. Mineral intake should be good also, especially for potassium and magnesium (and zinc for men). Also decent fiber intake. All of these things between them help insulin sensitivity, and make nutrient partitioning within a calorie restriction just a tiny bit easier for fat loss, and also deliver slightly better improvements in c reactive protein (inflammatory state), blood pressure, lipoprotein values and potentially also contribute to better long term health beyond the short term diet itself.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dtlv said:


> In my opinion, yes defintely, knowing your type can help.
> 
> I think glucose tolerance testing/insulin sensitivity testing or genetic screening is a good idea for someone starting out as it would help them avoid a huge load of trial and error finding what kind of diet template is gonna be the best basis for their personalized diet... but many guys who have been through more than just one or two cuts have through trial and error figured out their relationship with carbs, and know what diet works best for them even if they don't see it in terms of insulin sensitivity. For them the results of a test would probably only tell them to select the diet they know works best for them anyway.
> 
> ...


going from the above about glucose reading in a fasted state a can remember 6-9 months ago a was tested for glucose and in a fasted state it came very low a think the range was between 2-6 and a got 1ish somewehere the doc asked me to return in the evening for another test and it came up about 4-5.5 if a remember correctly

what could you conclude from that


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

up early at 7 today cardio at half 11 first meal in at 1 was fcuking starving!

sugarfree red bull pre cardio

diet remained the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of cashew nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (almonds)

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)

hunger panes have started to kick in when a have early starts due to fasting everyday till 12

thats me finished all food for tonight and still hungry! not good lol

training today was shoulders not hit shoulders for 2 weeks

shoulder db press 44x6 max set could have went more but saved it for next all out set as 44 is heaviest db in gym

seated laterals

cable laterals

1 arm laterals

bb curls/press downs

alternate db curls/dips

job done


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

zak007 said:


> going from the above about glucose reading in a fasted state a can remember 6-9 months ago a was tested for glucose and in a fasted state it came very low a think the range was between 2-6 and a got 1ish somewehere the doc asked me to return in the evening for another test and it came up about 4-5.5 if a remember correctly
> 
> what could you conclude from that


For a fasted glucose test that comes in at normal/healthy sensitivity assuming those numbers are correct and in mmol/l. The morning result needs some clarity, but assuming you didn't train the day before the test and weren't taking any peds/meds then those results suggest you would do well on a higher carb cutting diet.

Take a look at this old (but still relevant) article by John Berardi, and scan over the second section especially (Individual Differences) for his recommendations for how to approach diet for someone insulin sensitive. - http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_2.htm?from=pn


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

having the weekend off no cardio

good cause legs started feeling really weak and a felt a little fcuked wasnt too bad though

weight checked today 75.2 started at 78.9 or 79 as said in first post so down 3.6kg

yesterday in gym got commented on how a looked bigger a just brushed it off saying its probably cause am leaner a think a havent really lost much muscle if anything strength is a little down but overall its not too bad!

diet same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of cashew nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (almonds)

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)

still to have meal 4 had meal 5 instead lol and thats me done for today

pics up tomorrow or probably monday all take them in gym in same lighting/poses etc


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

weight today 74.7 or 74.5 not sure which one but a can remember am down half a kilo overnight

diet today

diet same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, had 50g of cashew nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, handful nuts (almonds)

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)

no real cravings today

scotts gave me 300 calories post workout on tuesday of whatever a like so still trying to figure what to spend it on not really much to play with! a bar of chocolate will most likely be chosen a probably wont even want it come tuesday

no pics today no=one to take them so will be taken tomorrow at the gym


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

double checked weight today its 74.7

fasted cardio 20 mins

diet today

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, 50g of whole brazil nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, didnt have nuts here

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)

noone to take pics today so am pulling a ts23/ausbuilt for now! lol hopefully have some pics when bump into a friend at the gym

training today was chest

incline dumbells max set 44x12 felt good

incline bench 100x4 got 6 last week dissapointed previous set took it right out me!

flat bench wide girp 70x10

flat flys

dips 20,15,15,12

no real cravings today!

probably wont even want to cheat tomorrow but will anyway


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

dutch_scott said:


> If u don't want to cheat don't! The best athletes have the best mindset
> 
> If you cheat for sake of it then that's a pretty silly thing to do. It's an option not a prerequisite !


Yes it's probably cause a know am getting it a wont want it

A have packed 10 chunks of dairy milk off a big bar 280 cals but will only eat if a feel any cravings later on


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

so today was have a cheat meal post workout

10-15 mins cardio morning had to run off and had a good mile walk from the top of town down to the bottom and back up again all of that on a empty stomach so am sure thats more than enough cardio! and then a long walk later on

training today was legs

leg press 200x20, 310x8 < needs to go heavier

squats max set 160x5 could have got maybe 1 or 2 more

smith squats feet close teardrop was on fire!

lunges

and to finish off hammy curls

noone to take pics for me if a cant find anyone tomorrow all do it at home and get my wee sis to do it was wanting to do it at gym so see it in the same light etc

cut between arm/shoulder coming through abs not really making much progress but anno for me thatll be the last place it comes off happy just now anyway

*plusa didnt cheat!* @dutch-scott


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

today was ma first downfall

had a bar of chocolate in the morning!

woke up late had to get a taxi out the door missed morning cardio and didnt do evening either

back on it tomorrow though!


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Life happens mate, forget it and crack on next day


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

MutantX said:


> Life happens mate, forget it and crack on next day


itll only make me more determined!

getting bad doms after leg day maybe cause am proper smashing them now as being lower on protein


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

back on it today

fasted cardio

today was back

shrugs max set 160x5

weighted chins max set 20x6

db row max set 44x12

deadlift max set 120x8 am crap at these

chins bodyweight max 16

was meant to do abs but forgot been a long day

diet today down to a tee

diet remained the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, forgot nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, no nuts here either

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

ok so missed cardio today so was done pw at a slightly higher intensity to compensate

getting cravings every day since that chocolate bar but holding on so far!

today was shoulder

db press 44x6 max set use to be able to do 12 reps on this!!!!!!!

seated lat raises

cable raise

lat raise standing

job done

was meant to do abs from yesterday but forgot again!

traps fcuking aching from yesterday after the shrugs done a triple drop from 160 to 120 to 100 all 6-12 rep sets

diet same as above

pics hopefully monday or tuesday


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

weight today 73.9!

arms leaner, abs tiny bit leaner

rest day today no cardio no training

diet will be the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, nuts

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)


----------



## Guest (Mar 16, 2013)

zak007 said:


> today was ma first downfall
> 
> had a bar of chocolate in the morning!
> 
> ...


hope it wasnt this


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

DaveMCFC said:


> hope it wasnt this
> 
> View attachment 114169


hahaha that wont put me off! going to need more than that lol


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2013)

your diet does look very strict. how do you manage to eat when your at uni??


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

DaveMCFC said:


> your diet does look very strict. how do you manage to eat when your at uni??


meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

eggs make a omelette put it in a tupperware box eat it after fasted cardio

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts

tupperware box with added spoon haha and bag nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, nuts

same as meal 1

meal 4 is post workout and when a get home


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

heres a preview pic before getting proper pics taken today upon waking



will get proper pics next week

abs a lot leaner

veins in arms/chest coming out!


----------



## Guest (Mar 16, 2013)

zak007 said:


> heres a preview pic before getting proper pics taken today upon waking
> 
> View attachment 114197
> 
> ...


mirin' ( no ****)


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

rest day today no cardio no training

diet the same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, nuts

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo =1100g chicken having this now

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts (pistashio nuts)

training plan changing

diet also being slightly tweaked in the coming week


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

today went like so

25 mins fasted cardio 5 minutes warm up/warm down

chest today

db press max 44x5 slow reps!

incline bench press max 100x5

flat bench press 100x5

flys max 32x5

dips max 30kgx5 (need to go heavier next week, find it hard to fit bigger dumbells between legs so need to buy dip belt)

abs/obliques

diet added in banana post workout which tasted so nice!

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts (NO NUTS HERE)

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, nuts

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts ( no more nuts left)


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

fasted cardio 20 mins

legs today

leg press proper depth 400x5 suprised best a have done is 350-360 for 6-8 before but usually squat first so new pb :thumb:

squats 140x5, 180x5 just above parallel

smith squats

lunges

ham curls

jobs a goodun!

diet today

diet added in banana post workout which tasted so nice!

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, no nuts here

pre workout was 35g oats

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts ( no more nuts left)

run out of nuts need to get some more tomorrow and some honey


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

fasted cardio 20 mins

legs today

leg press proper depth 400x5 suprised best a have done is 350-360 for 6-8 before but usually squat first so new pb :thumb:

squats 140x5, 180x5 just above parallel

smith squats

lunges

ham curls

jobs a goodun!

diet today

diet added in banana post workout which tasted so nice!

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, no nuts here

pre workout was 35g oats

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts ( no more nuts left)

run out of nuts need to get some more tomorrow and some honey


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

so today

swapped cardio around due to things a had to do today

so morning 30-40 mins walk slow slate cardio

rest day today

evening 45 min cardio

diet today

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, no nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, no nuts here

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts ( no more nuts left)

still to get nuts and honey tonight or possibly tomororw


----------



## Fatboy80 (Feb 27, 2008)

'No nuts here'

Reminds me of that little Britain sketch, carrot cake, carrot cake, have ye any nuts?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

fasted cardio morning

diet added in banana post workout which tasted so nice!

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo,no nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, no nuts here

pre workout was 35g oats - didnt get honey in time earlier

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, nuts here just got them!

today was back

forgot belt/chalk

so shrugs max 140x5 grip failing

chins bw + 25kg x5/6

was meant to do db row but dbs only go upto 44s so put bar in corner and done 1 arm row instead of t bar row that went like below

1 arm t bar row max set 60kg + bar x5

deadlifts done slightly higher like row rack pulls (legs still sore) max set 200x2

chins max set 15

abs heavy

feeling legs are taking a while to recover must be all the jogging after leg day

knees are getting pain a think the lunges are causing this

apart from that all is good

weight loss seems to have slowed down visually not much change this week but then again its a slow process

will update on sunday with weight etc

still looking quite full for dieting must be creatine which is keeping me full

a


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

morning fasted cardio done

diet same as yesterday

shoulders today

db press 44x5 losing strength on this!

side laterals

cable laterals

1 arm laterals

bb curl/press downs

db curl/dips

feeling hungrier throughout day/night especially since last meal a finish around 10-10.30 and end up in bed at 12-2 depending if a go out or not for a while


----------



## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

Sorry pal, haven't read the whole thread. What sort of diet you following? Keto, If, or?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Jd123 said:


> Sorry pal, haven't read the whole thread. What sort of diet you following? Keto, If, or?


low carb/keto not sure if its keto or not but under 25-50g carbs a day


----------



## Guest (Mar 22, 2013)

zak007 said:


> low carb/keto not sure if its keto or not but under 25-50g carbs a day


nice one, looking good pal good luck!


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

zak007 said:


> some more pic whoring
> 
> all taken today lighting makes a big impact but oh well here they are
> 
> ...




pic update

considerably leaner all around apart from legs

backs made decent progress, abs are coming through, arms etc all ok

member this is a natty journal! no supps apart from protein bcas and creatine its be 4 weeks a have been dieting


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

You 1 hairy MOFO!


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

How do you get the carpet to stick to your legs so well? :lol:

So, you have never ever used steroids?


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

:beer:


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

I think by natty he means he's in PCT :lol:


----------



## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

no talk of gear on this thread pls says OP


----------



## aesthetics4ever (Aug 6, 2010)

Looking good mate. I have the opposite problem in that I'm quad-dominant and my calves look pretty small in comparison.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

hackskii said:


> How do you get the carpet to stick to your legs so well? :lol:
> 
> So, you have never ever used steroids?


it keeps me nice and warm during the cold days!

its march and its still snowing here in the uk :thumbdown:



R0BLET said:


> Looking good mate.
> 
> Have you always been natty...... Back pic would say you've had a dabble at some point
> 
> Never the less, good work :beer:


backs broke out am on accutane just now had spots since a have been younger lol



radicalry00 said:


> Looking good mate. I have the opposite problem in that I'm quad-dominant and my calves look pretty small in comparison.


yeh ma calves have made improvements am doing them every night before bed 50 reps 2 second hold at top 2 second hold at bottom hopefully bring them up a bit

legs are a fcuker! a might start hitting them twice a week in future will see how they go am blitzing them every week now without fail


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

weekend off

weight today 72.7

about 1kg + down from last week cant see much difference this week visually

diet

diet today

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo,

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs,

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

here are pics first thing in the morning

all pics are no pumped!

top 2 abs normally always visible for me even when bulking but not this visible

middle 2 coming out now the outline around the side a have been this lean before but from now on its get shredded time!


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Small waist big biceps, I like that****NO ********* :lol:


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Small waist big biceps, I like that****NO ********* :lol:


a still have love handles so still to get smaller!


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

timed junk day today

you know the rest!


----------



## Fatboy80 (Feb 27, 2008)

Keep up the good work!!!!!!


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

:beer:


----------



## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

what was ur cheat meal?!


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

:beer:


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

.


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

:beer:


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

DaveMCFC said:


> what was ur cheat meal?!


was pizza/chips/coke/muffins/chocolate/fruit probably other bits anything a could find lol



dutch_scott said:


> Ha you'd think no one got acne from that little thing, uh , yeh puberty ha


exactly its actually puberty related lol


----------



## Fatboy80 (Feb 27, 2008)

Done :thumb:


----------



## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)




----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

so may as well do update now

new plan being done just now so things will be changing a think this week

today was chest tried a preworkout thunderbolt today had the 2 servings in one!

so strength down but not too bad maybe the pre workout helped

bench press 100x5, 110x5 last one spotted

db incline 44x11, 44x9

flat db 44x9

decline bb 60x10, 100x5

dips bodyweight + 27.5 x10 need to buy dip belt can go heavier here

incline flies

no cardio done today

diet same

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo, nuts

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs, nuts

pre workout was 35g oats

post workout banana

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

zak007 said:


> fasted cardio 20 mins
> 
> legs today
> 
> ...


same as above

except leg press 420x5! up from last week

squats were 140x5, 160 atg


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

rest day today

not done any cardio this week just waiting for new plan from scott its being revised as we speak

diet

meal 1 - 3 whole eggs, 1 scoop whey in water, 2 tables spoons evoo, tiny bit salt

meal 2 - tuna, with 1 tablespoon evoo,

meal 3 - 3 whole eggs,

meal 4 - 200g chicken, 1 tablespoon evoo

meal 5 - fish, small portion veg, small serving of nuts


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2013)

two days no update, are you dead?


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

DaveMCFC said:


> two days no update, are you dead?


kinda putting things on hold just now diets went back to pre diet just now a might have a month off and then diet after got exams in a month and want to focus so will be talking to scott to see what can be done


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2013)

zak007 said:


> kinda putting things on hold just now diets went back to pre diet just now a might have a month off and then diet after got exams in a month and want to focus so will be talking to scott to see what can be done


ah good luck, i'm in the same boat!


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