# overtraining a myth?



## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

Im starting to think that over training is a myth, theres these lads in the gym that train 7 days a week and are in great shape and are gaining well when they want too. Theres also these polish lads that come in and all they do is go through all the machines and free weights everyday without a proper routine and some dont even do there reps properlyand they too have great mass and are in great shape. Im starting to think that this overtraining that i always hear about isnt what its all set out to be. I actuly think that my training style is actuly undertraining with 3-4 sets of certin exercises, ive been gaining but i think if i had of trained more then i would have grew alot more than i did. Ive seen these guys come in on days and do bicep curls and tricep exercise's for an hour and yet they have fantastic arms. Is there anyone who thinks similar to me here


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

I personally think thats biology mate, because i see so many people do the opposite.. diet is spot, do all the best routines, perfect form, rest days, good split.. right muscle group combos on the right machines etc and they get zilch gains. I envy the fvckers who can just work and pack it on, i would work out 7 days a week if it was more effective but sadly doesnt seem to be for a lot of people


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

CoffeeFiend said:


> I personally think thats biology mate, because i see so many people do the opposite.. diet is spot, do all the best routines, perfect form, rest days, good split.. right muscle group combos on the right machines etc and they get zilch gains. I envy the fvckers who can just work and pack it on, i would work out 7 days a week if it was more effective but sadly doesnt seem to be for a lot of people


But have you ever tried it, the only reason i havent tried it is because that ive been told not to on the forums but im now considering doing it because ive seen alot of guys who train lik ethi sand they look good.


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## The Oak 2009 (Sep 14, 2009)

I think most people would largely say overtraining is a myth. How much you can train depends on so many different factors - how much you eat, how much you sleep, what sort of lifestyle you have, how much you rest, genetics, whether you are natural or not etc.....


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

cultivator said:


> But have you ever tried it, the only reason i havent tried it is because that ive been told not to on the forums but im now considering doing it because ive seen alot of guys who train lik ethi sand they look good.


Yeah i have but.. not with the correct diet. Basically when i joined i was clueless i was working my biceps and shoulders every day 3 times a day lol and all i did was lose weight and crash my immune system.. body cant take it 24/7 but as said i was naive back then and my diet was sh!t which would have certainly contributed to the no gains..


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## The Oak 2009 (Sep 14, 2009)

CoffeeFiend said:


> I personally think thats biology mate, because i see so many people do the opposite.. diet is spot, do all the best routines, perfect form, rest days, good split.. right muscle group combos on the right machines etc and they get zilch gains. I envy the fvckers who can just work and pack it on, i would work out 7 days a week if it was more effective but sadly doesnt seem to be for a lot of people


I don't buy that. You are seeing "so many" people with great diets, training routines and rest patterns making absolutely no gains!. If they are making no gains at all their diets, training and rest patterns are not as great as you percieve them to be.


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

The Oak 2009 said:


> I don't buy that. You are seeing "so many" people with great diets, training routines and rest patterns making absolutely no gains!. If they are making no gains at all their diets, training and rest patterns are not as great as you percieve them to be.


Some people are just naturally fvcked by their biology though.. some people have crazy metabolisms or thyroid disorders etc... lol i'll downgrade so many to a few if you like.


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## SeBb0 (Jan 8, 2011)

easy gainers & genetics.. most likely the type that can do any kind of workout routine & get good gains out of it while others struggle to get results... it is down to the individual, always be more concerned about your own training... they could give you their routine & diet plan but may have minimal effect on you & works amazing for the next guy.

Edit: heres a good article on easy/hard gainers >> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/training_for_easyhard_gainers


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Overtraining MMMMMM ??????

Well isnt the art of growth pushing your body beyond it thresholds ???

however its also about the correct rest ....

Who said it was straight forward !!!!!

its about finding what works for you, by all means go train your cvnt off 7 days a week mate see how you feel. if it dont work then train 1 body part every fortnight, see if that works. but as with absolutely everything in life itself BALANCE is key !!!!


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

The Oak 2009 said:


> I don't buy that. You are seeing "so many" people with great diets, training routines and rest patterns making absolutely no gains!. If they are making no gains at all their diets, training and rest patterns are not as great as you percieve them to be.


thats another thing , my diet would be far more clean and more than theirs. Theres even this romanain guy who eats next to nothing ffs and he's is about the same strength/size as me. He was actuly telling me that he only eats 2 meals max a day with a few snacks inbetween,WTF.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Any of you guys do much fishing ???????

I did quite a bit of fishing and i always believe its like weightlifting..

IE, i have sat at side of a person on a fookin great big lake, same bait , same setup, same time of day everything,fish showing over both areas, he has bagged up and i havent had a sniff, how does that work...

Same as physical gains, 2 people could do exactly the same thing , 1 may gain the other may get nothing out of it.....

now sometimes if i changed the size of my hook to the guy sitting by me.... fish come rolling in... get a baseline from all the advice you read, tweak it so it works for you.. its all we can do...


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

flinty90 said:


> Overtraining MMMMMM ??????
> 
> Well isnt the art of growth pushing your body beyond it thresholds ???
> 
> ...


Theres was this gymnasit(<spelling) who i knew in belfast and ate ****e all day long but had one of the best phyics ive ever seen . He trained 6 days a week ,ate ****e and has a great body , another WTF!!


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

My opinion on this is you can train as much as you want as long as you are eating enough food to compliment the training load. Thats not to say though if you only train 3 times a week you should eat less amount of food. I always refer to Arnold Schwarzenegger book for threads like this, he trained twice a day most days but he also ate and I quote "5-6 2 course meals between the morning and afternoon workout" so that means 10-12 meals between his AM workout and his PM workout - that is a mammoth amount to eat but he was training between 10-14 times a week, and he grew.

Obviously though he has amazing genetics but that doesn't mean the same principles don't apply.


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

cultivator said:


> Theres was this gymnasit(<spelling) who i knew in belfast and ate ****e all day long but had one of the best phyics ive ever seen . He trained 6 days a week ,ate ****e and has a great body , another WTF!!


Genetics like i said lol..


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

CoffeeFiend said:


> Genetics like i said lol..


Well where the fcuk can i get genetics like this,lol,


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

cultivator said:


> Well where the fcuk can i get genetics like this,lol,


That was a joke by the way incase you think im a thick cnut,lol


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

cultivator said:


> Well where the fcuk can i get genetics like this,lol,


You cant change em lol stuck with your set from birth, some are naturally gifted some are naturally pretty fvcked.. im not saying the sleep and diet doesnt have an effect on how people can do it 24/7 but the genetics definately is a big factor..


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

cultivator said:


> That was a joke by the way incase you think im a thick cnut,lol


Woops to late i assumed you were 

Lol i knew really mate


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

The word 'genetics' is being tossed around here in this thread a lot! Even if you don't have genetics to be the next Markus Ruhl or Kai Greene, any man or woman can still build a GOOD body! Bodybuilding is a science and a science is always right! You cannot argue with it, so then if all parts of the science is put together correctly you HAVE to grow otherwise one part is missing or lagging.


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## BillC (Jun 11, 2009)

F.M.J said:


> My opinion on this is you can train as much as you want as long as you are eating enough food to compliment the training load. Thats not to say though if you only train 3 times a week you should eat less amount of food. I always refer to Arnold Schwarzenegger book for threads like this, he trained twice a day most days but he also ate and I quote "5-6 2 course meals between the morning and afternoon workout" so that means 10-12 meals between his AM workout and his PM workout - that is a mammoth amount to eat but he was training between 10-14 times a week, and he grew.
> 
> Obviously though he has amazing genetics but that doesn't mean the same principles don't apply.


Yes but look at his legs. Whilst still good, they were never his strong point. Why? Because he'd pyramid his sets up and back down, sometimes doing 30 sets of squats! He had everything there, perfect muscle bellies, small knees yet never got the best out of them.

I know I overtrain, but I can't help myslef, I actually love being in the gym.


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## rizlagreen (Oct 30, 2010)

want some 2 pls


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

cultivator said:


> Im starting to think that over training is a myth, theres these lads in the gym that train 7 days a week and are in great shape and are gaining well when they want too. Theres also these polish lads that come in and all they do is go through all the machines and free weights everyday without a proper routine and some dont even do there reps properlyand they too have great mass and are in great shape. Im starting to think that this overtraining that i always hear about isnt what its all set out to be. I actuly think that my training style is actuly undertraining with 3-4 sets of certin exercises, ive been gaining but i think if i had of trained more then i would have grew alot more than i did. Ive seen these guys come in on days and do bicep curls and tricep exercise's for an hour and yet they have fantastic arms. Is there anyone who thinks similar to me here


I once trained twice a day 7 days a week for over a year and felt no worse, i had decent muscle and was shredded with grest defenition.

It's everyone to their own IMO.


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

theres a lad at my gym who has gained nearly 6 stone of lean muscle in 2 years (juiced obv) but he works out 3 hours+ 6 days a week


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Im training 7 days a week. I have a break when i feel like im not up for training. Either tired or lacking motivation. Learning to listen to my own body more i think.

I do get at least 8 hours rest and not often do i miss a meal (except for the kfc incident last thursday  )


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

i dont think its a myth at all more doesnt always equal more


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

its all down to genetics,people love that word in bodybuilding but it really does play a big part.

i know another lad who pretty much just ****es about at the gym,doesnt hardly eat and has a pysique most envy,old the older lads tell him if he stuck in properly he could go far but he's not really interested.


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

In my opinion it exists, but far too many people are scared of it when they shouldn't be

You read and hear about how people won't train arms twice a week because they think they will overtrain, or how squatting three times a week is overtraining.

There are many, many factors to consider - diet / rest / work capacity / experience - the list goes on

It's not as simple as to say doing bla bla will lead to overtraining


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## miller25 (Apr 22, 2007)

I think over training exist, BUT, you will find people recover at different rates. Some need more rest, some need less rest. Simple.


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## Syko (May 18, 2010)

In Jay Cutlers new DVD he says "there is no such thing as overtraining, just undereating"

But i beleive in overtraining

There this one blokes who trains where i do, he comes in 7 days a week and dose the same thing everyday

While hes resting between sets on the bench he will do some curls. While hes resting between the curls he will do some lat pulldowns so really he dont have no rest. He will do this for an hour then come back the next day and do it all again. He dont deadlift or squat. Hes got a bit of mass to him, bigger than me. I think should i do this? Am i going wrong with a 3 - 4 day split, getting good rest?


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Genetics help. Everyone can become muscled, lean and fit.

Diets are over-stressed. You only need as much protein and calories a day as your body can make use of. Eat just enough. Excess will be stored as fat. 6 small meals a day are no more effective than 3 big ones with the same nutritional content. There are no magic foods and supplements.

Most serious guys overtrain. It feels good.

Most guys don't do the exercises properly of efficiently.

Mike Mentzer: "If you can do more than an hour in the gym a day you're not working intensely enough."

You only need to stress a muscle sufficiently to make it grow. If you can do a lot of reps you're not stressing it sufficiently. High reps are aerobic and will increase stamina and reduce size. The big labourers are the ones that lift the heavy loads. The wiry ones do a lot of spade work.

After being stressed a muscle needs time to recover and grow. From experiments the average is about 48 hours. Some guys need longer some shorter. It becomes apparent how much you need. Re-work a muscle too soon and you won't grow as much; muscles don't start to shrink again before 3 or 4 days or more.

You also need enough sleep to let your body as a whole and central nervous system recover. A week off every 6 weeks is apparently beneficial.

The way the existing champs work out is peculiar to them: they don't necessarily want every muscle to get bigger, or some more than others. Loads of gear, huge amounts of protein, only one body part a session, partial reps. And think of the ones who fell by the wayside...


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## glanzav (Sep 11, 2008)

whats the best way of finding how much food you need surely sticking to a certain amount you will just plateau and no further gains

i try and get as much food into me a day as possible


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## John Wood (Apr 13, 2008)

Depends what you call overtraining...overtraining to me is wearing yourself down and not gaining in muscle size or strength..think'n the more you do the more you'll gain do'nt work like that

My training w/out's when competing 70's/80's where 6day's a week..1.1/2hrs+ each w/out....on 3bodypart split my recovery & gains were good plus keeping condition at the same time... this type of training will not suit everybody... but did for me.....now at my age I train 3day 1.1/2hs 3.b/part split


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

glanzav said:


> whats the best way of finding how much food you need surely sticking to a certain amount you will just plateau and no further gains
> 
> i try and get as much food into me a day as possible


There's no point in overeating - you'll just get fat.

The one nutritional quantity you can calculate with confidence is your protein requriement. Minimum 2 gms protein per kg actual bodyweight a day is good; some advocate 3 - 4 gms.

Get your protein from real food first: meat, fish, eggs, milk, cheese. Then shakes as required.

Then eat good fats: butter, milk, cheese, cream, olive oil (also in salad dressings) and mayo. These also contain some protein. Fats are essential to make your testosterone work and are high in calories but very satiating so you can eat less yet not feel hungry.

Then eat just enough carbs to top up your energy needs: choose salads, boiled veg and fruit first, then ordinary baked potatoes, and lastly pasta bread and rice.

If you lack energy, eat a few more carbs; if you're getting porkier back off the carbs first.


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## Little Ron (Aug 10, 2010)

I think people confuse overtraining with physical exerise. I.E. training for too long or with too many reps. If you train for too long then you are not lifting heavy enough weights or pushing yourself to the limit for bodybuilding. If you do push heavy/hard your body aches and tells you have pushed enough and by the same method it tells you when your ready but not aching anymore. If you train a muscle when its still aching then thats not good for you.

I see no harm in training one bodypart a session and if its recovered before 7 days is over, which it should be, then why not train it again.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I've got great genetics I'm just lazy


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

You've gotta think of it in terms of building a wall.

You start off with a brick wall, 10 bricks high

you workout, its knocked down to 5bricks,

you rest, you build 6bricks back, to make the wall stronger (progression)

however it takes time to build those 6bricks back, if you dont rest, and train again, you might of only built the wall 7bricks high,

You train again,you've knocked it down again, you are now at only 2 bricks high (detrimental to building your wall back up)

- Over training can be detrimental

Of course some factors, such as steriods, help you build the wall quicker.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Matt 1 said:


> You've gotta think of it in terms of building a wall.
> 
> You start off with a brick wall, 10 bricks high
> 
> ...


How much to build me a conservatory base mate lol !!!


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

imo, how fast can I recover is the key and diet is the answer


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## Bambi (Jul 1, 2009)

I dunno about genetics and overtraining.. when I was swimming at my peaks I was training 4 hours a day, 6 days a week (2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the evening) and was never suffering from 'overtraining' though had I done that when I started swimming I would have been dead. Your body can adapt to stimulus much more easily than people think. I think a lot of it depends on food (and in particular, carb) intake


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

dont rugby players and footballer train virtually everyday for over 6 hours per day, barring obviously game days ???


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

flinty90 said:


> Any of you guys do much fishing ???????
> 
> I did quite a bit of fishing and i always believe its like weightlifting..
> 
> ...


Very good analogy and point mate


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

I think you're an idiot and cant know much about training to think over training is a "myth"


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> I think you're an idiot and cant know much about training to think over training is a "myth"


Who are you pointing that opinion at mate ???


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## cult (Nov 7, 2009)

MarkFranco said:


> I think you're an idiot and cant know much about training to think over training is a "myth"


Ive been training for 3 years now but dont claim to no it all, justy curious about overtraining. I know that everyone has there limits but i think that a good percentage of us are prob overtraining. Im always reading that you shouldnt do more than 1 hour in the gym because you'll "overtrain" but then i look at guys who are training for 2 hours ,dont eat as much as me and they are growing more than me.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

As hard as sprinting, competitive swimming and rugby training may be, they're primarily aerobic exercise, and so with practice can be sustained for long periods.

In that sort of exercise the body will deveop muscle size and type required to sustain it, yet minimize muscle size and weight to minimize energy requirement.

When your goal is to obtain muscle size you need to lift heavy weights for just sufficient reps to stimulate growth fully, and then give your body time to recover and grow.

Doing more exrecise than enough will reduce muscle growth. If you can do more than enough your weights are too low and your reps are too high; or you may be cheating and not doing the exercise correctly - probably doing it too fast and "throwing" the weights which will surely lead to injury.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Overtraining is a myth, undereating however isnt


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

I just don't see how any one thinks its a myth.

Considering muscles need rest and nutrition to grow why do people allways want to just train more?

And from a strength perspective as im into powerlifting it just going to kill your CNS, I train hard for maybe 3 weeks at a time then like to deload to 50% and start again

Training to much = no gains in size and strength and feeling really run down, also makes sleeping difficult for me and i get ill easier.


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