# Blood test



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

Got my bloods done was wondering if yas could have a look and see if everything looks good to start my first cycle.

Cycle and stats

week 1-6 60mg tbol

week 1-12 500mg test e pw

week 2-12 hcg 250iu monday-thursday

week 4-12 12.5mg Aromasin

week 14-17 20mg nolva pd
supps tudca 500mg pd

nac 1000mg pd

then usual multi vid etc etc
Stats

Age 35

Height 5 11"

weight 170lb

workout 4/5 days aweek

working out over 10 years but consistant the last year with loosing 3 and a half stone in the last 4 months but lost loads of muscle.

Going to clean bulk at 2800-2900 calories

hoping to get atleast 240grams carbs 280 protein and 80 fats


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> Got my bloods done was wondering if yas could have a look and see if everything looks good to start my first cycle.
> 
> Cycle and stats
> 
> ...


 What is the nolva for? That wont cut it for PCT.

You might need 25 mg per week aromasin.

That amount of protein is overkill and counter productive. You should aim for a minimum amount of protein and fill the rest up with carbs.

You dont need more than 1 gram per lbs of body weight and even that is more than necessary. You need more protein when cutting, not bulking.

I will address labs in the next post


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> Got my bloods done was wondering if yas could have a look and see if everything looks good to start my first cycle.
> 
> Cycle and stats
> 
> ...


 Glad you got your baseline testosterone level. It's on the lower end of average but still normal.

You are borderline anemic it seems, the cycle will probably boost your hematocrit and RBC. Your iron is fine though.

Everything else is no real cause for concern.


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Nolva and clomid for four weeks for pct at 20mg/50mg each day

what he said above, he's most likely the cleverest bloke to grace this board

especially about nutrition also...


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> What is the nolva for? That wont cut it for PCT.
> 
> You might need 25 mg per week aromasin.


 What else should i add in for pct wanted to stay away from clomid ?

What suggest im abit anemic ?


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> Got my bloods done was wondering if yas could have a look and see if everything looks good to start my first cycle.
> 
> Cycle and stats
> 
> ...


 Also note, i would run the aromasin from the start or latest two weeks into the cycle.

E2 levels go up right away, its just that due to gene expression, you dont feel it for a little while.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

What macros would u suggest to go for p/c/f?


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Nolva and clomid for four weeks for pct at 20mg/50mg each day
> 
> what he said above, he's most likely the cleverest bloke to grace this board
> 
> especially about nutrition also...


 Thank you sdrol

Yeah clomiphene is all you really need and you can run that at 50-100 mg per day.

100 mg will increase risk of emotional and visual side so tread carefully.

You can run it as long as 8 weeks, there are many different protocols, but your goal will be to get back to your previous total t levels.

Remember to test 8 weeks after your PCT so that you can gauge your T levels without the influence of the clomid.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

I was meant to write 12.5 aromasin eod


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> What else should i add in for pct wanted to stay away from clomid ?
> 
> What suggest im abit anemic ?


 Your HCT is at the bottom of the range, your RBC as well. which is actually flagged low.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

So do nolva 20mg ed and clomid 50mg ed?


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> Your HCT is at the bottom of the range, your RBC as well. which is actually flagged low.


 Would that not cause of the blood thinners i was on for 8 months?


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> What macros would u suggest to go for p/c/f?


 For protein you only need .8 grams per lbs of lean body mass for optimal growth.

The rest i would fill with carbs, minimum fat for flavor. Fat is the least useful macro especially on a bulk when you dont want spillover on a caloric surplus.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> For protein you only need .8 grams per lbs of lean body mass for optimal growth.
> 
> The rest i would fill with carbs, minimum fat for flavor. Fat is the least useful macro especially on a bulk when you dont want spillover on a caloric surplus.


 80 grams of fat be ok?


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> Would that not cause of the blood thinners i was on for 8 months?


 Blood thinners do not affect HCT unless you've been bleeding on them

They also don't actually thin the blood but prevent it from clotting as easily.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

and i always read 1.5g protein per lb of weight


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> 80 grams of fat be ok?


 Dont obsessed over macros like this.

Focus on hitting a consistent caloric surplus and getting the minimum amount of protein you need.

After that, proper training, rest and genetics will dicate results from your cycle.


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> and i always read 1.5g protein per lb of weight


 Excessive, even on a cut.

Very High protein is useful on some cuts to increase satiety and lessen hunger pangs but there is no benefit to body composition.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

No problem so lots of health carbs good amount of protein and minimal fat?


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> What is the nolva for? That wont cut it for PCT.
> 
> You might need 25 mg per week aromasin.
> 
> ...


 in regards to the 1g per lb of body weight of protein how does this work with protein from carbs, steve from revive stronger said he half's the protein count from sources that aren't complete like rice oats bread etc, how much protein of the 1g per lb of bw should be from meat, i find i have to reduce my meat portions to get my protein down currently at 257 p 357c 76f at 170


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

This is an average day


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> in regards to the 1g per lb of body weight of protein how does this work with protein from carbs, steve from revive stronger said he half's the protein count from sources that aren't complete like rice oats bread etc, how much protein of the 1g per lb of bw should be from meat, i find i have to reduce my meat portions to get my protein down currently at 257 p 357c/76f at 170


 No need to micro manage, the protein from carbs count and are of high enough quality for muscle repair. Protein is protein and unless 100% was coming from plants i wouldnt worry, even then.

Pea protein is as effective as whey

All of this is even less of an issue on AAS, but bodybuilders are OCD by nature, for better or worse.


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> in regards to the 1g per lb of body weight of protein how does this work with protein from carbs, steve from revive stronger said he half's the protein count from sources that aren't complete like rice oats bread etc, how much protein of the 1g per lb of bw should be from meat, i find i have to reduce my meat portions to get my protein down currently at 257 p 357c/76f at 170


 No need to lower the protein in your diet unless you are having a hard time eating enough calories.

If you like your diet like that, its fine. High carbs is always best for performance.


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> This is an average day
> 
> View attachment 151941


 Doesnt look bad, but dont feel the need to force that much protein down your throat unless its a preference. You would be fine with 150 g per day.


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> No need to micro manage, the protein from carbs count and are of high enough qaulity for muscle repair. Protein is protein and unless 100% was coming from plants i wouldnt worry, even then.
> 
> Pea protein is as effective as whey
> 
> All of this is even less of an issue on AAS, but bodybuilders are OCD by nature, for better or worse.


 Any evidence that getting at least 20g protein with each meal is optimal? this is really why my protein is so high i naturally eat 6 meals a day and have protein with all of them, if this isn't the best route i may cut some out from 1-2 meals and ramp the carbs up for better massing. Having a hard time not gaining fat haha eating is not an issue.


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> No problem so lots of health carbs good amount of protein and minimal fat?


 My favorite is cereal with skim milk, very easy to hit calories on that. Good amount of protein and insulin spike.

Carbs dont have to be "healthy" per say, bodybuilding doesnt have be a boring diet experience.

Pancakes are also great, mix it up. You dont need to live on brown rice, chicken and tuna.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> My favorite is cereal with skim milk, very easy to hit calories on that. Good amount of protein and insulin spike.
> 
> Carbs dont have to be "healthy" per say, bodybuilding doesnt have be a boring diet experience.
> 
> Pancakes are also great, mix it up. You dont need to live on brown rice, chicken and tuna.


 Believe it or not my fav is from cereal 100grams of oats 1scoop of protein and 300ml unsweetened almond milk i look forward to that every morning


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> Any evidence that getting at least 20g protein with each meal is optimal? this is really why my protein is so high i naturally eat 6 meals a day and have protein with all of them, if this isn't the best route i may cut some out and ramp the carbs up for better massing. Having a hard time not gaining fat haha eating is not an issue.


 If this were true, our ancestors would have died out quick.

Our body can handle protein even down to once per day. There is no need to constantly consume protein, this is what supplement and fitness industry likes people to believe.

If you want a lean bulk, keep the surplus as low as needed to gain mass. There is never a reason for your daily surplus to go past 250-500 calories.


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

ElChapo said:


> If this were true, our ancestors would have died out quick.
> 
> Our body can handle protein even down to once per day. There is no need to constantly consume protein, this is what supplement and fitness industry likes people to believe.
> 
> If you want a lean bulk, keep the surplus as low as needed to gain mass. There is never a reason for your daily surplus to go past 250-500 calories.


 Last question to solve my diet now haha, whats your opinion on casein? is it really valuable for recovery? how different is it from consuming salmon or beef pre bed? currently have quark with some peanut butter before bed but if this is pretty much just another useless act of me trying to optimise for nothing that's some easy protein i can change to carbs as well.


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> Last question to solve my diet now haha, whats your opinion on casein? is it really valuable for recovery? how different is it from consuming salmon or beef pre bed? currently have quark with some peanut butter before bed but if this is pretty much just another useless act of me trying to optimise for nothing that's some easy protein i can change to carbs as well.


 I like its satiety benefits, it fills you up well, has a ton of high quality calcium and is cheap to buy.

It will not really provide you with any benefit from replacing it with meat based protein though. There is no inherent magical benefit as the supp industry would have you believe.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

I love greek yogurt before bed with couple of drops of myprotein drops in it white chocolate flavour


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

thestaffy said:


> Believe it or not my fav is from cereal 100grams of oats 1scoop of protein and 300ml unsweetened almond milk i look forward to that every morning


 I don't really consider oats as a cereal although technically they are, they are slower release, what el chapo is referring too (I think @El Chapo) is maybe cornflakes or puffed wheat, simpler carbs that are nearer the glycemic value of glucose will give a more pronounced spike that oats which will give a lesser one but longer in duration (I will say I mean post workout meals for cereals)

and why almond milk, have semi skimmed for extra carbs and more protein... first thing is a time when your body has been dormant and repairing using its fuel, so fuel it back up


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> I love greek yogurt before bed with couple of drops of myprotein drops in it white chocolate flavour


 Yeah be creative and enjoy the process.

This will lead to longetivity in your training and diet and ensure consistency.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

superdrol said:


> I don't really consider oats as a cereal although technically they are, they are slower release, what el chapo is referring too (I think @El Chapo) is maybe cornflakes or puffed wheat, simpler carbs that are nearer the glycemic value of glucose will give a more pronounced spike that oats which will give a lesser one but longer in duration (I will say I mean post workout meals for cereals)
> 
> and why almond milk, have semi skimmed for extra carbs and more protein... first thing is a time when your body has been dormant and repairing using its fuel, so fuel it back up


 Tbh i just like the taste of almond milk but i do also have them with milk if there is no almond milk in the house.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

I hope steak is good in your diet as i just got 5kg of lean steak of my sister inlaws uncle who is a farmer hoping to eat a 400-500kg steak ed with sweet potatoes and veg as my pwo meal


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

thestaffy said:


> I hope steak is good in your diet as i just got 5kg of lean steak of my sister inlaws uncle who is a farmer hoping to eat a 400-500kg steak ed with sweet potatoes and veg as my pwo meal


 Personally I wouldn't eat that much on a day, 200-250g max and mix it up with chicken/whey/fish for protein sources...

and defo not 400-500kg 

and post workout I'd have white potatoes, sweet potatoes are another slow digested carb

youd be better having rice crispies and milk and then steak laterl


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

That's only a 17.5 oz steak ???


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

thestaffy said:


> That's only a 17.5 oz steak ???


 Yes... everyday... Too much red meat isn't particularly good for you, hence 8-10oz max, I'd rather mix it up...

its 1 protein source for well over half your protein...

personally I go for 1.2g/lb but now I'm doing a more powerlifting oriented program I will be dropping that to 1g/lb to get the benefit of more carbs for workouts

ps you put 400-500 KILOGRAMS!


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> I hope steak is good in your diet as i just got 5kg of lean steak of my sister inlaws uncle who is a farmer hoping to eat a 400-500kg steak ed with sweet potatoes and veg as my pwo meal


 Steak is fine and very nutritious, lots of minerals and vitamins as well as protein.


----------



## thestaffy (Oct 2, 2017)

Thanks for all the help guy really looking forward to this cycle really done a lot of research into it and very eager to start it and get the most out of it. I'll get bloods took at week 6 see how the liver values r and if not to bad I might add the var in week 9-14 but I will defo be asking @ElChapo first ?


----------



## ElChapo (Apr 7, 2017)

thestaffy said:


> Thanks for all the help guy really looking forward to this cycle really done a lot of research into it and very eager to start it and get the most out of it. I'll get bloods took at week 6 see how the liver values r and if not to bad I might add the var in week 9-14 but I will defo be asking @ElChapo first ?


 Go for it, barring any pre-existing condition, your liver should be perfectly fine.

It's never a bad idea to get mid-cycle blood work, many people have found their AAS to be bunk or underdosed doing this. It's very important, especially when it's your first time trying a source.


----------

