# dnp and keto



## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

ok so tried things differentlyy this cycle

i usually run a balance diet , but decided to try keto

i have been on 5 days with 7 pound loss , i am feeling no heat at all on 125mg dnp and i suspect the weight loss is just depletion

the keto stix are not showing me being in keto yet ( not sure why ) , i am on 25 g carbs a day , 2 portions of brocolli and a little onion

i have had a couple of quest bars which have been assured are fine and have a tiny amount about 5 g of half sugar brown sauce on my omlette

starting weight 15st 8 down to 15 st 1


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

DNP takes approximately 10 days to build up so don't bump to 250mg until then


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

Buzzz_ said:


> DNP takes approximately 10 days to build up so don't bump to 250mg until then


Correct. You should not even contemplate upping it until at least your 6th day. You are close enough to peak levels then to know how you handle the sides.


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

i have used many times , i have taken 375 mg before , i wasnt about upping dose , more to do with diet


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> i have used many times , i have taken 375 mg before , i wasnt about upping dose , more to do with diet


bunk dnp? not sure why you arent in keto, miscalculated the carbs?

you build up a tolerance to dnp in my experience if you have used it a few times within a year.


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## funkypigeon (Mar 3, 2013)

Lots of people have done keto on DNP and have done great, its still all calories in/out that matters, so it depends on how you feel, if you feel really fatigued then add back in some carbs if you prefer it to higher carbs then stick with it.

Some people do it to reduce the heat but at 125mg per day i doubt the carbs are going to burn you up.


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## Johny85 (Feb 1, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> ok so tried things differentlyy this cycle
> 
> i usually run a balance diet , but decided to try keto
> 
> ...


Are you doing keto or a low-carb diet?

Keto = low carb + loads of fat / protein.

Low-carb = ... well just figure.

To get into keto state, you need to down your carb intake even more, lower than 25 grams.

But doing a keto diet while on a DNP cycle is far from ideal as eating fats during a DNP cycle isn't useful. Low-carb with enough proteine is useful however.


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

i am doin 25 g carbs and roughly 50/50 protein to fats

i am on 3000 cals per day

i was tryin to go on 125mg to stay on longer maybe 20 days as before could only manage 10 - 12


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## jammie2013 (Nov 14, 2013)

Ketostix are pretty poor indicators of ketosis. What if youre using ketones instead of ****ing them out?


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

i thought they were supposed to good indicator ?


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

oxy2000 said:


> ok so tried things differentlyy this cycle
> 
> i usually run a balance diet , but decided to try keto
> 
> ...


i didnt feel it as much as everyone said they did on here, like some people say they are suddenly on fire and sweating like a tit. if your naturally warm and sweat a bit like me you might not notice it at all and just be able to get on with it, i only notice more heat when i sleep but its defo working even with out the feeling, keto diet aswell, adjusted for dnp usage. i wouldnt worry about the keto sticks, mine have shown variations from 0.5-5.0+ inthe same **** and some have a tiny spot of red some turn fully red, my guess some sticks may be a bit dud or lack the active ingredient.

give it til day 7-10, wear sumint that would make you warm when you ride abike or walk (hi vis jacket for me) and you will siddenly realise how much heat and sweat you are giving off!


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> ok so tried things differentlyy this cycle
> 
> i usually run a balance diet , but decided to try keto
> 
> ...


You are only running 125mg which is a very low dose, I barely feel anything when on 250mg, but you've lost 7lbs in 5 days so that's all that matters :thumbup1:

How long have you been on a keto diet for?


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

On for 5 days . Dropped carbs fully for 2 days see if makes diff

Feel really lethargic but dont kno if its lack of carbs or dnp


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

It will be the DNP. You need T3.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> On for 5 days . Dropped carbs fully for 2 days see if makes diff
> 
> Feel really lethargic but dont kno if its lack of carbs or dnp


As @Superhorse said, it's the T3. If you don't run at least 50mcg T3 along with your DNP to replace normal thyroid levels, you will feel lethargic due to the conversion being interrupted. 50mcg T3 dose for 250mg DNP and 100mcg for 500mg DNP. I know your running 125mg DNP but I would recommend 50mcg T3 because 25mcg will be too low

I'm running a DNP cycle now, started today at 250mg per day, going on for about 3-4 weeks then seeing where I am. I'm not running T3 because I never feel tired and I struggle to get to sleep, so when I run DNP without the T3, sometimes it's nice to actually feel tired 

I've only tried a Keto diet once and that was for 3 days before DNP (I was seeing if depleting makes a difference). Never again, I felt like crap and was so irritable lol. My diet is 200g Protein / 140g Carbs / 80g Fat / 2000 Calories for DNP - Works great :thumbup1:


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

dropped the carbs completely for 2 days to see if hit keto

lost another 2 lbs ( 9 lb in a week )and cals are at 3200 now

sleep is terrible but no heat still


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## Fiahh (May 7, 2009)

wtf? 7lb in 5 days?

We're you on like 300g carbs beforehand took ur first tab and started eating 25g carbs whilst on dnp?

I can't see u losing that as actual fat, u must have had high carb diet, and it's carb to keto with all that loss... No way 7lb in 5 days.

Genuinely curious it your reply (sorry if u mentioned already, briefly read  )


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## Fatso (Dec 4, 2011)

Probably a few lbs of water. I often lose 6lbs+ on keto in the first week.


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

Yes carbs were high before

I kno loads of water and carb deplete . Wish it was fat lol but i kno it isnt that easy


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> Yes carbs were high before
> 
> I kno loads of water and carb deplete . Wish it was fat lol but i kno it isnt that easy


How long are you planning to run DNP for mate? And how much about do you want to lose about?


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

i only ever managed 10 - 12 day , was planning this for about 20 days , hence the lower dose

i am lethargic so added in 25 mcg of t3 today to see what happens

only looking to lose another 6-7 pounds

had great results before with normal diet but wanted too try somethin different as an experiment , plus i love eating steak etc


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> i only ever managed 10 - 12 day , was planning this for about 20 days , hence the lower dose
> 
> i am lethargic so added in 25 mcg of t3 today to see what happens
> 
> ...


You do know you have to split the T3 dose in half and take it twice a day and on an empty stomach?

How many days on DNP have you got left? I'd say another 10 days and you will have safely lost around 14lbs of fat in total. You have to account about 4lbs for water levels and glycogen depletion


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## funkypigeon (Mar 3, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> ok so tried things differentlyy this cycle
> 
> i usually run a balance diet , but decided to try keto
> 
> ...


What deficit were you running?


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

yea i know to split , didnt know about the empty stomach

deficit 400


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

upped to 250 mg per day and feelin warm now

lethargy has gone , i am not in keto and doesnt like i am going to so have given up on that

added my broccoli back in and will start increasing carbs next week

lost 12 pound in 10 days , so happy with that , feel flat as **** thou

all in all , happy with results , full inch off waist , will see how look when carb up

get some looks out in this weather in just a t shirt lol


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

I've never used ketostix. Always counted macros instead.

probably why im fat


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

oxy2000 said:


> upped to 250 mg per day and feelin warm now
> 
> lethargy has gone , i am not in keto and doesnt like i am going to so have given up on that
> 
> ...


Well done mate.

To the person that said it takes 12 days for DNP to kick in, why do people do a week or 10 day cycle of it then? Not criticing just curious


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

12 days my ass , have they actually used it ?

i feel warm on first day , think its day 6 you hit peak levels


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> upped to 250 mg per day and feelin warm now
> 
> lethargy has gone , i am not in keto and doesnt like i am going to so have given up on that
> 
> ...


Sounds great so far mate

This is my 6th day of 250mg DNP myself, lost 5lbs so far but started to water bloat so not weighing myself until a week after stopping

TBH I much prefer carbs, doesn't put so much restriction on the diet plus DNP will burn it off straight away anyway... but you will feel much warmer depending on the GI of the carb. Complex carbs has a lower heat burn but lasts longer, simple carbs has much hotter heat burst but goes quickly


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

Juic3Up said:


> Well done mate.
> 
> To the person that said it takes 12 days for DNP to kick in, why do people do a week or 10 day cycle of it then? Not criticing just curious


I'm not that person but I think what they mean is that DNP takes a duration to get to the peak dose as it accumulates in the body. 12 days is wrong, 7 days is the amount of time needed to reach the peak dose.

However, that does not mean that DNP will not be effective up until that point. When ingested DNP will get to work nearly straight away as it's a poison but the sides get worse up until the 7 day mark and then stays at that point until the dose is changed or stopped


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

tbh i dont think has made any difference to weight loss , but def not as warm as before

but i have enjoyed all that bacon , steaks , cheese , full eggs lol

only prob is its hard to snack on


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

I see. I've used it a couple times before and noticed it working from day 4, so thats why I was only asking. Thanks though.


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> tbh i dont think has made any difference to weight loss , but def not as warm as before
> 
> but i have enjoyed all that bacon , steaks , cheese , full eggs lol
> 
> only prob is its hard to snack on


Yeah I know what you mean, I get really bad cravings and because I use DNP for long periods of time, I don't take Sibutramine but I always keep a bowl of sugar free jelly and salad in the fridge which helps me greatly lol

I find DNP very flexible to diet on, the calories you are taking in are going to get burned off nearly straight away anyway... for example today; it's my brothers birthday. So instead of sticking to my usual diet, I'll have an omelette now with some cheese and ham for the fats because for his birthday we are having a Chinese tonight. Because Chinese is very Carb heavy, I have planned out so I save all my carbs for that and it still amounts to around 2000 calories


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

Took bowl of oats today . Am on fire lol


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

First cramp ever on dnp . Both legs totally seized

Never felt pain like it . Got more electrolytes in me . Hopefully sort it


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> Took bowl of oats today . Am on fire lol


My brothers birthday yesterday, we had a Chinese which included rice and chips... in the middle of my food, all I could feel was a heat tsunami coming full force towards me


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> First cramp ever on dnp . Both legs totally seized
> 
> Never felt pain like it . Got more electrolytes in me . Hopefully sort it


I had cramps in my right bicep a couple of days ago too, chugged half a litre of water and I was good. Best get to some electrolytes though just in case


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

1. IMO the number of days being banded about in here are way too high. 3 days, tops in my experience. I think the physiological half-life of dnp is much shorter than what everyone is claiming and also varies widely amongst individuals - for me it only takes a day or two to return to normal. Having said that I agree, never ramp up dnp dosage quickly, always leave it a couple days at least between increases.

2. Ketosis is irrelevant, especially on dnp. Carbs don't hang around a long time when you're on dnp, especially the higher doses. Hot flush city after each carb meal 

3. Doseage is highly individual - you need to find the right amount for you - what dose gives you the maximum heat / lethargy that you are willing to accept.

4. Don't forget, some dnp pills are over-dosed to make people rave about them - so even if you think you're on 250mg a day you might not be... :laugh:


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

defdaz said:


> 1. IMO the number of days being banded about in here are way too high. 3 days, tops in my experience. I think the physiological half-life of dnp is much shorter than what everyone is claiming and also varies widely amongst individuals - for me it only takes a day or two to return to normal. Having said that I agree, never ramp up dnp dosage quickly, always leave it a couple days at least between increases.
> 
> 2. Ketosis is irrelevant, especially on dnp. Carbs don't hang around a long time when you're on dnp, especially the higher doses. Hot flush city after each carb meal
> 
> ...


3 days tops for what?


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Echo said:


> 3 days tops for what?


Err... the time it takes for peak concentration of dnp in your body, like you've been discussing throughout this thread?


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Or, it's half-life, if you want. However you like to frame it. :thumbup1:


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

defdaz said:


> Err... the time it takes for peak concentration of dnp in your body, like you've been discussing throughout this thread?


Wrong. There are spreadsheets proving that it's 6-7 days for the peak dose to be reached.

@DiggyV - Do you have it mate?


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

defdaz said:


> Or, it's half-life, if you want. However you like to frame it. :thumbup1:


And it's half life is 36 hours...


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

If you take DNP to have a half life of 36 hours (which is about the average) then peak saturation is reached around day 6 or 7. Here are the tables and graphs from my DNP dosage and supps sheet. The graph shows a 21 day cycle, of 125mg per day.





If anyone wants a copy of this please PM me your email. :thumb:

(it actually full peaks and levels at day 14 - but the increase in peak from day 7 to 14 is tiny)


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Echo said:


> My diet is 200g Protein / 140g Carbs / 80g Fat / 2000 Calories for DNP - Works great :thumbup1:


What would your daily diet consist of with them macros?


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Echo said:


> And it's half life is 36 hours...


There's so little research into this, and what research there is is conflicting. But I'm glad you are so sure about this. It's a nice and comforting number isn't it.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

DiggyV said:


> If you take DNP to have a half life of 36 hours (which is about the average) then peak saturation is reached around day 6 or 7. Here are the tables and graphs from my DNP dosage and supps sheet. The graph shows a 21 day cycle, of 125mg per day.
> 
> View attachment 143791
> 
> ...


Wel the (albeit line of best fit) shape of the graph is right, but I'm still convinced that for most people the half life is shorter, much shorter.

Most people I know will experience a peak effect within two days, three tops. In fact, on a true dose of 250mg (remember that most 'good' dnp capsules / tablets are over-dosed) there is hardly any build up and they experience a definite pulse / decline over each day.

Remember guys, there's v little research on dnp and nothing is really well described. Stop taking things for gospel, especially when empirical data suggests otherwise.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

defdaz said:


> Wel the (albeit line of best fit) shape of the graph is right, but I'm still convinced that for most people the half life is shorter, much shorter.
> 
> Most people I know will experience a peak effect within two days, three tops. In fact, on a true dose of 250mg (remember that most 'good' dnp capsules / tablets are over-dosed) there is hardly any build up and they experience a definite pulse / decline over each day.
> 
> Remember guys, there's v little research on dnp and nothing is really well described. Stop taking things for gospel, especially when empirical data suggests otherwise.


Yes people will start feeling it in 2 days, but the peak is reached in the time as shown. If you look at the figures the increase from day 0 to day 3 is the quickest with proportionately less from day 4-7. The one thing there is data on with DNP is half life (30-36 hours), ED50 and LD50. Calcs have been born out by not just my runs but others I know as well. If you want a copy of the sheet to play with, just let me know, you can look at the calc'd yourself then

The graph is not a best fit one, I only calc'd only one point per day, including more will show a pulse each day that's true. I'll do a multi point one if needed, but the values in this one are the minimum that the DNP will drop to prior to next dose.

Also while there is very little research on DNP, I have read pretty much all of it.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

DiggyV said:


> Yes people will start feeling it in 2 days, but the peak is reached in the time as shown. If you look at the figures the increase from day 0 to day 3 is the quickest with proportionately less from day 4-7. The one thing there is data on with DNP is half life (30-36 hours), ED50 and LD50. Calcs have been born out by not just my runs but others I know as well. If you want a copy of the sheet to play with, just let me know, you can look at the calc'd yourself then
> 
> The graph is not a best fit one, I only calc'd only one point per day, including more will show a pulse each day that's true. I'll do a multi point one if needed, but the values in this one are the minimum that the DNP will drop to prior to next dose.
> 
> Also while there is very little research on DNP, I have read pretty much all of it.


So have I mate.  DiggyV I respect you mate but I'm disagreeing on personal and empirical terms. As you know there are many types of half-life and I'm saying that the physiological, the biological effect half-life is waaaay shorter than you're saying. I have practical experience with many dnp users (not saying why but I'm sure you can figure it out) and this experience occurs again and again. Peak affect in generally two days, elimination of any noticeable physiological effects in two days tops once dnp is desisted. That's on a true 250mg dose per day.


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## DiggyV (May 6, 2011)

defdaz said:


> So have I mate.  DiggyV I respect you mate but I'm disagreeing on personal and empirical terms. As you know there are many types of half-life and I'm saying that the physiological, the biological effect half-life is waaaay shorter than you're saying. I have practical experience with many dnp users (not saying why but I'm sure you can figure it out) and this experience occurs again and again. Peak affect in generally two days, elimination of any noticeable physiological effects in two days tops once dnp is desisted. That's on a true 250mg dose per day.


The respect is genuinely two way mate  I get the hint also, if you read my profile - we probably do similar things with people :lol:

I think we may be saying the same thing, or close enough to be irrlevant, but you may have missed the point.

I just re-ran the calcs for 250. What I get are:

Day 2 - residual is 262mg, so full dose that day is going to be over 500mg

Day 3 is 327 - so full dose will be >600mg

at day 8 it is only 100mg more, most people wont be able to tell the difference between the dose on day 2/3 and day 8. however peak is at day 7/8 :tongue: :lol:

when you stop the same thing happens:

2 days after stopping the amount left is 182mg - which for a lot of people wont be noticed

3 days after its only just over 100mg

8 days after its 10mg (ish)

so as far as the physiological response you see in people I would tend to agree, however the biological dose in the body will still be there.

The fact it takes this time, is why I recommend to people to wait at least 5-7 days before upping the dose, as while the 100mg wont be noticeable in the case we are discussing, it plays a much bigger role when thinking about increasing the dose.

make sense?


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> What would your daily diet consist of with them macros?


Here

7:30:

One slice of brown bread

Two strips of chicken

50g Cheese

10am:

Protein Bar

20 Almonds

1pm:

Two slices of brown bread

Half a tin of Tuna

20 Almonds

4pm (Pre-workout)

100g chicken breast

200g sweet potato

Mixed Vegetables

7pm (post workout)

Protein shake

Apple

8:30

100g chicken breast

Salad

10:15

Casein shake

200g Protein / 140g Carbs / 80g Fat / 2000 Calories


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

got the dreaded hives while on dnp , i am off now

what did people take to shift , its not a lot but itchy as hell on leg

i have been putting hydro cortisone on it


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Antihistamine containing citrizine hydrochloride


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

Dazzza said:


> Antihistamine containing citrizine hydrochloride


from boots or somethin ?


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

oxy2000 said:


> from boots or somethin ?


Yup most supermarkets should have it, i know morrisons does.


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## Rocket-bike (Nov 15, 2012)

in responce to the hives on dnp one thing that took the itching away for me was calamine lotion , was like heaven when i put it on


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> got the dreaded hives while on dnp , i am off now
> 
> what did people take to shift , its not a lot but itchy as hell on leg
> 
> i have been putting hydro cortisone on it


Happened to me on my first cycle mate

Stopped the DNP immediately and took a four hour Piriton, obviously every four hours 

Hives went completely in about 3-4 days


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

it went with the cream , wasnt that bad anyway and was 2 days after i finished which was weird


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## Echo (Sep 24, 2013)

oxy2000 said:


> it went with the cream , wasnt that bad anyway and was 2 days after i finished which was weird


Glad to hear

If I knew about the cream, I would have used it too

Luckily I have not had the hives since that time, TBH I think I had it because I was using too much DNP (I was on 500mg per day, on the 16th day, broke out literally everywhere) *Lesson thoroughly learnt.*


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## oxy2000 (May 17, 2012)

have to say i thought the shorter 7- 10 days cycles were better than the the longer 20 day cycle


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