# Upping the training regimen. what do you guys think?



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

Trainings going strong. Made some good gains over Christmas, really kept it together, gaining minimal fat while keeping the foundations built post Christmas.

Since the new year I have increased my training regimen to a more high intensity. After watching some of Kai Greenes videos online, I have been focusing a lot on mind-muscle connection, squeezing every last bit out of each set. Got to say, I'm a lot more sore for days after.

Also switched up the rep range, aiming for 21 reps on each set. Still trying to train as heavy as possible.

Chest workout today looked like this...

6 sets Chest pullovers - 21/21/21/18/16/14

6 sets flat bench press - 21/21/21/18/18/10

6 sets incline bench - 18/18/16/14/12/6

6 sets machine chest press - 21/21/21/21/21/21

3 sets incline flies - 21/18/16

3 sets flat flies - 21/19/17

Finished that with superset dips/press ups to failure. Weights for this workout were not very severe and definitely had to leave my ego at the door. I do feel like it targeted my chest a lot more by focusing directly on the muscle rather than using everything possible to move the weight.

What do you guys think of this training? I know some would say it's possibly over training but I want to break down the muscle and force the nutrients in, let them get to work and thus grow!!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

what kind of weights are you lifting?


----------



## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

if you are honestly putting every bit of your chest into this and working it fully then who is to question if it is to much or too little. it does look a little much to me but if you are defiantly putting full intensity into these sets then go with it. just seems like alot of sets for wanting to try and train heavy.


----------



## johnnya (Mar 28, 2013)

Big rep range mate


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Looks like way too much volume with what is most likely not enough weight on the bar.

People talk about muscle soreness like the more sore you are the better the workout was which is total twaddle. You can do 100 bodyweight squats and ache for days on end and your legs won't grow, can do 5x5 with heavy ass weight and not ache and they can grow nicely.

21 reps is muscular endurance not hypertrophy.

*i must add, the above is not gospel as I appreciate everyone reacts differently to resistance training but the vast majority wouldn't react well to that sort of training if building muscle is the primary aim.


----------



## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

Josh Heslop said:


> if you are honestly putting every bit of your chest into this and working it fully then who is to question if it is to much or too little. it does look a little much to me but if you are defiantly putting full intensity into these sets then go with it. just seems like alot of sets for wanting to try and train heavy.


The big question is, can you honestly put every bit of your chest into every one of those sets? I seriously doubt it. And I seriously doubt the intensity on each set for those amount of reps is there.

Personally I believe if you can't smash your chest (or any other muscle group for that matter) to bits over 8-10 sets then the intensity isn't there


----------



## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

JR8908 said:


> The big question is, can you honestly put every bit of your chest into every one of those sets? I seriously doubt it. And I seriously doubt the intensity on each set for those amount of reps is there.
> 
> Personally I believe if you can't smash your chest (or any other muscle group for that matter) to bits over 8-10 sets then the intensity isn't there


yea that was part of my point with the "honestly" bit, trying to get a bit of thought from OP to really say if his sets are really working, or simple over exhaustion form that many reps


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

I've just finished an 8 week 5x5 training programme and have to say I did put on some good size and what I would say a good foundation to build up from. I trained a lot in the past but recently had a year off due to personal reasons.

Weights ranging from 50-80kgs on the presses, then down to a lot lower for isolation exercises. Feelings post workout and for days is really pumped up and noticing a lot more definition.

The reason for going for such a high rep range is to get back into the mindset of pushing through the pain barrier, going for the reps that make you grow. Yes some may be assisted but it's all hard work.

I plan to continue this plan for a good 6-8 weeks to see how it works. Il be sure to let you guys know


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

Form is there for every rep, and every rep counts. Even if it means lowering the weight. I squeeze the chest, every rep. Focusing on the mind-muscle connection. Il get some before and after photos up soon.

Brad


----------



## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

brad creevy said:


> I've just finished an 8 week 5x5 training programme and have to say I did put on some good size and what I would say a good foundation to build up from. I trained a lot in the past but recently had a year off due to personal reasons.
> 
> Weights ranging from 50-80kgs on the presses, then down to a lot lower for isolation exercises. Feelings post workout and for days is really pumped up and noticing a lot more definition.
> 
> ...


This pain barrier you talk about might be sumint to listen to, the reps that make you grow are the important ones, the sets of 21 might be a bit much except for a warm up. If you keep the biggest rep sets away and put the working ones closer it could keep the intensity just as high


----------



## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

JR8908 said:


> The big question is, can you honestly put every bit of your chest into every one of those sets? I seriously doubt it. And I seriously doubt the intensity on each set for those amount of reps is there.
> 
> Personally I believe if you can't smash your chest (or any other muscle group for that matter) to bits over 8-10 sets then the intensity isn't there


I'd often agree with this, but not at the rep range he's talking about.

I'm not sure what you could expect working at this rep range. I'd imagine doing it for 4 weeks or so might be good as a deload. It would also train your high rep energy systems which may have a positive knock on effect when you lover the rep range back down again. But I don't think it'd be good for long term gains on it's own.


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

if you have been making good gains on a 5x5 in 8 weeks then why have you decided to stop it at this point mate and go onto a completely made up routine?


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

This workout is by no means made up. This workout has been designed to increase the intensity in my workouts while promoting that old style gritting of the teeth to get through barriers. Be that mental and physical. Have to say the majority of the battle is mental. My training partner died over 12 months ago, which is why I have been out of training. I need something to push through this and get back on top of my training. I did have good results from 5x5, my reason for changing is just to switch it up.

This training programme is again only for about 6-8 weeks. I like unorthodox training programs, and this one of Kai Greenes really stood out to me


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

Also I am aiming for 21 reps on everything, the lower reps are on failed sets


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

brad creevy said:


> This workout is by no means made up. This workout has been designed to increase the intensity in my workouts while promoting that old style gritting of the teeth to get through barriers. Be that mental and physical. Have to say the majority of the battle is mental. My training partner died over 12 months ago, which is why I have been out of training. I need something to push through this and get back on top of my training. I did have good results from 5x5, my reason for changing is just to switch it up.
> 
> This training programme is again only for about 6-8 weeks. I like unorthodox training programs, and this one of Kai Greenes really stood out to me


soorry mate, i didnt word my post very well. i didnt mean made up in a negative manner, just that its a routine you have made up for yourself rather than a well known and proven routine such as 5x5.

what i was trying to ask was - why switch routines? was your 5x5 no longer giving you the results that you said gave you some good size in only 8 weeks?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Look like a cardio routine tbh


----------



## 2H3ENCH4U (May 23, 2012)

This is the kind of training I'd expect to see a bikini competitor doing where they are training to maintain muscle but burn fat.


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

My only reason for switching routines is that I tend to get bored of the same routine. I also like to shock the muscles by changing my routine. I will be going back to a predominately heavy weight/low rep routine after this one.

I also noticed during my 5x5 routine that I was getting really tired after 2,3 exercises so knew I needed something that was going to benefit me in a muscular endurance way.

Everybody is different and everyone's workout is tailored differently to meet that persons needs. As I said, mines both mental and physical battle at the minute. But I know pushing myself that bit further each day it will be worth it.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

brad creevy said:


> My only reason for switching routines is that I tend to get bored of the same routine. I also like to shock the muscles by changing my routine. I will be going back to a predominately heavy weight/low rep routine after this one.
> 
> I also noticed during my 5x5 routine that I was getting really tired after 2,3 exercises so knew I needed something that was going to benefit me in a muscular endurance way.
> 
> Everybody is different and everyone's workout is tailored differently to meet that persons needs. As I said, mines both mental and physical battle at the minute. But I know pushing myself that bit further each day it will be worth it.


your going to shock them alright, they're not getting a proper workout


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

Ha ha ha ok Simonthepieman, I forgot you know how everyone's body reacts to every possible workout.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

brad creevy said:


> Ha ha ha ok Simonthepieman, I forgot you know how everyone's body reacts to every possible workout.


fancy posting up your physique shots, estats , lifts to show the world what we can achieve with your philosophies?

The simple matter of fact that 80% of all results are derived from the fundamental basic principles. Which are devoid in your workout. I agree that different things, work for different people, but they all have their roots in the same places. That routine has all the roots of a cloud and i imagine it will leave you with a physique that will get blown away rather than blow people away.

Hell, i might be wrong. I might be eating humble pie by my next post as you tell me about your 200KG deadlift and a Mens Fitness photoshoot still. I'll be happy to buy a signed book when it's released.

But just like when i first started out, the most important lesson to learn is that you aren't a precious unique snowflake. You are a normal person who has 99.9% of the DNA of everyone else and responds much similar way that you think.

If you getting tired on a 5 x 5, i'd have a guess it's more a diet issue than routine one.


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

Once again, I am not starting out, I have trained for 5 years prior to my year off. I am simply getting back into the swing of things.

But as a pro you will know about the diffences in muscles hypertrophy and by utilising all types of muscle hypertrophy you can add more mass, size and strength than using one alone.

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - google it!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

brad creevy said:


> Once again, I am not starting out, I have trained for 5 years prior to my year off. I am simply getting back into the swing of things.
> 
> But as a pro you will know about the diffences in muscles hypertrophy and by utilising all types of muscle hypertrophy you can add more mass, size and strength than using one alone.
> 
> Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - google it!


cool.

any pics, current stats?

As said, i might totally be wrong.


----------



## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

If you're doing 30 sets for a muscle the size of the pecs I shudder to think how many you do for legs!

I guess you must do about 80 sets for quads alone?! ;-)


----------



## { KLAUS } (May 27, 2010)

It's Bradly time all the time.


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

NickyGlen said:


> end of the day mate if you want to do that routine..... do it- people forget its about fun aswell it wont hurt you changing routine!
> 
> pro's such as rich gozdecki (WNBF PRO) does 600 reps all in all in a session of a back routine thats what he likes to do! some same too many reps but seen his physique!
> 
> just remember if you wanna be better than everyone else u got to do things that they dont want to do- my advice give it a go whats the worst that can happen. my personal opinion is not to count reps because your body may not be fatigued at 8 reps or even 21...heavy as u can for as many as u can.


This is the most sensible thing I've heard since joining this forum. That's the mindset of a winner right there. 21 is just my guideline of what I shoot for, I keep going till I'm done!


----------



## brad creevy (Jan 13, 2014)

{ KLAUS } said:


> It's Bradly time all the time.


Yes nickolasssss.


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I concur that more burn does *not* equal more growth..


----------



## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

There is nothing intense at all about that work out I'm afraid. Intensity when referring to weight training is typically giving reference to how close to your 1rm you are lifting. example if your 1rm on squats was 100kg and you did a session of 5x5 at 90kg that would be more intense than a session of 5x10 at 80kg.

I'm probably nit picking but at that kind of rep range you can't be anywhere near muscular failure or causing adaptation from load. You might build up endurance and become more efficient at flushing out lactic acid but that's about it IMO


----------



## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

Agree with con. If that is Chest, legs must take you hours and hours.

I think your ideas are right just applied in the wrong way IMO. There are too many submaximal high rep sets that are taking away from your working sets.

Personally I think a better way me be on your set.

To do Lower rep warm up 1-5 reps then have one all out working sets, where you do the very slow squeezing and when you fail doing slow and controlled bang out more reps at a normal tempo. Then rest pause it or do drop sets.

That way you are hitting multiple failures in one work set yet you zx can still focus on that mental contraction.

It is mostly mental because you mind will fatigue from concentrating that intensely for that long a period of time.

Alternatively maybe doing some TUT work then going to normal sets will be of benefit.


----------



## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

Also you have to think longevity tendon and joint health plus functionality!

Most people over work the pushing muscles and under work the pulling muscles this leads to bad muscle imbalances that will come and haunt you in a couple of years.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

brad creevy said:


> Trainings going strong. Made some good gains over Christmas, really kept it together, gaining minimal fat while keeping the foundations built post Christmas.
> 
> Since the new year I have increased my training regimen to a more high intensity. After watching some of Kai Greenes videos online, I have been focusing a lot on mind-muscle connection, squeezing every last bit out of each set. Got to say, I'm a lot more sore for days after.
> 
> ...


The problem I first think of with routines with volume like this is one of progression - with that much volume at the start, progression via regular increases of loading or by adding more volume are both going to be difficult to keep doing on a continual, regular progressive basis.

IMO that kind of volume can work but not as a regular thing for most people, rather as something occasionally done and built up to in a periodised way as a temporary period of over reaching before a deload and restart.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> 6 sets Chest pullovers - 21/21/21/18/16/14
> 
> 6 sets flat bench press - 21/21/21/18/18/10
> 
> ...


a very silly totally over volume routine for a natural - one would struggle with that on cycle - you can not be doing that amount of work with the correct intensity for muscle growth - as you would not be able to complete the stated program if at high intensity

Where the hell do people get these programs from ????


----------

