# Post workout shake when wanting to lose weight



## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

I've read conflicting opinions

Protien only, one hour after training to extend burn time

Protien only immediately, then Protien only meal

Protien only immediately then balanced meal

Balanced recovery shake then Protien only meal

Balanced recovery and then balanced meal

This is after an hour of cardio only. What is best from the view of wanting to lose weight but maintain existing muscle

Thanks in advance


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

30g whey, 50g dextose after training. followed by a meal, eg......chicken, broccli, no fat-carbs within the hour


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## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

So it's the same for dieting as it is for bulking? I have been reading up on the intermittent fasting, there's no mention of a shake there...


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## NOMNOM89 (Mar 1, 2011)

Domestos that'll help u lose weight! 

sorry couldn't help myself!


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## SeBb0 (Jan 8, 2011)

WelshMan83 said:


> I've read conflicting opinions
> 
> Protien only, one hour after training to extend burn time
> 
> ...


don't have a shake at all. get some proper nutritious food in you.. meat & veggies.

if your goal is to loose fat, have some bcaa's + caffeine 30/15 mins before.. see how it goes.


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## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm close to domestos it's bugging that im not shifting the fat I've got. My diet is clean and low cal.

The bcaa is to maintain the muscle during the cardio yes? And if i skip the shake do I eat immediately or an hour after?

Been reading a bit on here seems a lot of people know what their talking about


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

WelshMan83 said:


> I'm close to domestos it's bugging that im not shifting the fat I've got. My diet is clean and low cal.
> 
> The bcaa is to maintain the muscle during the cardio yes? And if i skip the shake do I eat immediately or an hour after?
> 
> Been reading a bit on here seems a lot of people know what their talking about


Have you covered all aspects of it mate?

Plenty of info on here to help you. Post questions after doing a little research


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## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

Yea pretty much mate. It's just this post workout routine after a full cardio session. I've read a few diff opinions on what to do so I thought id throw it out there.


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

I personlly would have the shake immediately after work out, then eat within the hour as said. Whey is the fastest type of protein and is quickly asorbed, thats what you want after your workout.

Followed by a high protein/fibre meal.


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Plus cabrs. Don't forget carbs help the uptake of all nutrients - A LOT


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## xeonedbody (Aug 28, 2009)

I would suggest whey protein 30g with dextrose around 30g after ur workout..after a proper workout your body needs the sugars to create an insulin spike needed for ur muscles to use the protein..you wana cut down carbs from other meals during the day. Also have low GI carbs mainly. A calorie deficit and cardio after ur workouts plus fasted cardio whenever possible.

This should allow you to loose fat while maintaining muscle.

Also look into carb cycle or keto diets. I am personally doing CKD these days with some great results


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

God there's some crap on this thread. Tell me, why would the OP need a "recovery shake" full of high GI carbs after 1hr of Cardio?

Just have a normal meal that fits with the rest of your diet.


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

I was reading a study the other day

Two groups, both performing cardio, one taking fast carbs/protein, the other just protein. They both lost the same amount of bodyfat.

I do think the study was more geared aroung doing cardio after weights, rather than just a cardio session though.


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

Protein on it's own has been proven to increases protein snythesis postwork without with out Carbs therefore the addition of carbs with your protein shake is no more beneficial especially if you are on a low carb diet


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## MrO2b (Aug 19, 2010)

do any of you know what time of day the cardio is being done? do you know his BF? his resistance training strategy? his somatotype?


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## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

MrO2b said:


> do any of you know what time of day the cardio is being done? do you know his BF? his resistance training strategy? his somatotype?


Usually late evening anything betweeen 6-8pm. BF not too sure on...Ive not had a measurement taken. Resistance training strategy I am usually going for high reps medium resistance. Not sure on somatype.

I read on another post on the first page of this part of the forum where one of you guys lists out your daily diet, and no mention of carbs in the PWO shake, I believe it was 50g protien + bcaas+ etc, so what is right and what is wrong? I'm not interested in putting on any other weight for the next 2 months, I am content to maintain muscle and keep burning away the fat.

I accept I may be asking questions that have already been answered here, but I am pretty tuned in with the basic old school muscle gaining ideas, 1 hour window, excess calls, carbs to protein ratio etc. What I've been reading on here seems like a lot more modern, science based ideas, based on what can be done by the basic person, not what a pro does for a job.

On the topic of keto, ive also been reading on IF (did you know it took me 2 hours to find a post which actually explained what IF meant? lol) What about the combination of IF and keto? Can that be done?


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Well im currently on a keto diet (and seeing great results!), 1 hour before cardio i pop 200mg caffiene and a green tea tablet, 20mins before 15g bcaa's and 10g glutamine. Immediatly after- 23g whey protein, 15g bcaa's, 10g glutamine and chewy 500mg vitC tablet. Then around 45mins later a proper meal. It protects my muscles whilst in kcal/carb deficit and helps with fat burning and recovery, like i said im seein great results!


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

I think the answer is, what diet are you following. It will depend, for those doing keto, I imagine no carbs are consumed, for those low carbing they may have a moderate amount, for bayman, nothing  , for me atm, BCAA's, vit c and green tea and ect.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Just thought you might want to know that anti-oxidants after exercise have been shown to blunt the adaptive response to the exercise itself...



> Antioxidants are popular these days. They claim to do everything from slowing the ageing process to help with recovery from training. But recent studies show that ingesting antioxidants from supplements weakens the body's own response to deal with free radicals created by training. In a similar vein, excessive Vitamin C-intake slows mitochondrial biogenesis and prevents some cellular adaptations to exercise.


As for the original question in this thread:



> I've dealt with a fair share of clients that were resistant to the idea of omitting the post-workout-cocktail that they had relied upon until working with me. These "recovery shakes" consisted of an ample amount of very high GI-carbs, such as waxy maize starch, maltodextrin or dextrose, mixed with whey protein. In some cases this added more than 400 calories to their diet. That's more than 400 non-satiating liquid calories with low nutrient value that were a big part of why they couldn't lose fat efficiently in the past. These post-workout-cocktails serve no function whatsoever for the recreational weight trainer. Faster muscle glycogen synthesis is a moot point for everyone but elite athletes, who may train twice a day. The use of recovery drinks during a fat loss regimen is extremely counterproductive. Those calories are much better spent on whole foods.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

I have not found taking the relative amount of antioxidants has any significant negative effects post HIIT, in fact, I have only recently added the vit c and find I feel less drained after my session. Thing is, I think with all the info and studies out there proving everything, you have to chose what negative/positive you are willing to compromise.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Interesting results from the study though!


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Yes interesting but, like everything its trial and error, trying different things and seeing how your body responds to it.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

You not likely notice any tangeable positive / negative from taking the anti-o's per say, as the changes are happening at a cellular level. But that info shows taking them PWO ain't what it's cracked up to be, plus less DOMS isn't necessarily indicative of better recovery.


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

I would not expect to notice. Same as burning them few extra kcal's from being in a cooler room, Id rather be comfortable warm and not burn the insignificant extra kcal's, then to burn them and be cold. I am not saying the supposed negative effects from the addition of the antioxidants is insignificant, but I am saying that I currently use vit c for the benefit of my feeling of well being.


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## Big Gunz (Jun 9, 2009)

WelshMan83 said:


> I've read conflicting opinions
> 
> Protien only, one hour after training to extend burn time
> 
> ...


Make sure you have a post workout shake consisting of protein AND carbohydrates. Aim for 1g/kg/bw for the carbohydrates, from high GI sources such as dextrose. If you want to have food immediately after, have honey on white bread with some milk.

It's imperative that you have this because it blunts cortisol (the bodies stress hormone) and raises insulin levels which creates an anabolic environment through increasing protein synthesis.


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## engllishboy (Nov 1, 2007)

Personally, I only have protein/carb shakes after a heavy lifting session. After a barbell complex/circuit training I have protein only. Cardio only, I have nothing immediately, then a meal 1-2 hours later so as to extend the fat burning/low blood sugar effect. Remember, fat oxidation stops when insulin levels are raised, so dextrose PWO will blunt any fat burning effect.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Big Gunz said:


> Make sure you have a post workout shake consisting of protein AND carbohydrates. Aim for 1g/kg/bw for the carbohydrates, from high GI sources such as dextrose. If you want to have food immediately after, have honey on white bread with some milk.
> 
> It's imperative that you have this because it blunts cortisol (the bodies stress hormone) and raises insulin levels which creates an anabolic environment through increasing protein synthesis.


It really isn't imperative mate. The guy is dieting, so consuming reduced cals and nutrients, he'd be better off using those shake cals on a proper meal. Who cares about creating an anabolic environment? He won't be building muscle whilst on a fat loss diet...


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

Big Gunz said:


> Make sure you have a post workout shake consisting of protein AND carbohydrates. Aim for 1g/kg/bw for the carbohydrates, from high GI sources such as dextrose. If you want to have food immediately after, have honey on white bread with some milk.
> 
> It's imperative that you have this because it blunts cortisol (the bodies stress hormone) and raises insulin levels which creates an anabolic environment through increasing protein synthesis.


http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/293/3/E833.full

Dextrose doesnt do anything. Its a well known fact that it lowers stomach acid and hormones too. It offers an insulin spike but no where near as long as meal and infact a whey shake is pretty insulingenic as it is. It takes a while for your body to become insulin sensitive after a workout as well and trying to force it wont help.

What happens in a sugar crash? The body has too much insulin so turns to the muscles again to help raise the sugar level and the cycle repeats.

Wouldnt the casein in milk slow down the digestion of everything?


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## Big Gunz (Jun 9, 2009)

bayman said:


> It really isn't imperative mate. The guy is dieting, so consuming reduced cals and nutrients, he'd be better off using those shake cals on a proper meal. Who cares about creating an anabolic environment? He won't be building muscle whilst on a fat loss diet...


Regardless of whether or not the OP could build muscle on a calorie deficit was not my point. My point was that after any form of training that depletes glycogen, you should have a shake/meal immediately after consisting of simple carbs and protein to restore glycogen AND blunt cortisol, since the OP doesn't want to lose his muscle whilst dieting and therefore should minimise this risk my doing so.

About the milk issue, "I said some milk", so i'm sure it wouldn't affect the digestion rate of the bread/honey. And i'm sure it would be beneficial because milk contains approx 80% casein and 20% whey which is a good mixture.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Big Gunz said:


> Regardless of whether or not the OP could build muscle on a calorie deficit was not my point. My point was that after any form of training that depletes glycogen, you should have a shake/meal immediately after consisting of simple carbs and protein to restore glycogen AND blunt cortisol, since the OP doesn't want to lose his muscle whilst dieting and therefore should minimise this risk my doing so.
> 
> About the milk issue, "I said some milk", so i'm sure it wouldn't affect the digestion rate of the bread/honey. And i'm sure it would be beneficial because milk contains approx 80% casein and 20% whey which is a good mixture.


Thing is mate, speed of glycogen replenishment is only a concern if your performing multiple exercise bouts in a day, or your an athlete. Glycogen will replenish naturally without the need for simple carbs PWO, and he's gonna be depeleted to some extent being on a diet - so why worry about it? Taking a recovery shake after doing fasted cardio or similar is just wasting your time.

You're right on the milk though.


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## Big Gunz (Jun 9, 2009)

bayman said:


> Thing is mate, speed of glycogen replenishment is only a concern if your performing multiple exercise bouts in a day, or your an athlete. Glycogen will replenish naturally without the need for simple carbs PWO, and he's gonna be depeleted to some extent being on a diet - so why worry about it? Taking a recovery shake after doing fasted cardio or similar is just wasting your time.
> 
> You're right on the milk though.


The reason why is because the OP is cutting and therefore would like to minimise the risk of losing muscle. It's been shown having carbohydrates immediately after promotes a positive nitrogen balance and minimises muscle protein breakdown.

Here...http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/6/1882.full


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Big Gunz said:


> The reason why is because the OP is cutting and therefore would like to minimise the risk of losing muscle. It's been shown having carbohydrates immediately after promotes a positive nitrogen balance and minimises muscle protein breakdown.
> 
> Here...http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/6/1882.full


So Carbs PWO are better than nothing!?!?! Hardly the scientific discovery of the century (apologies for the sarcasm), but I think we can safely say something PWO is better than nothing.

My point is, there'll be no difference if he gets a meal PWO instead. It'll be more satieing, and contain more nutrients. If the recovery shake is taken on top of his diet it could well chuck him above his necessary calorie limit to lose weight.


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## Big Gunz (Jun 9, 2009)

bayman said:


> So Carbs PWO are better than nothing!?!?! Hardly the scientific discovery of the century (apologies for the sarcasm), but I think we can safely say something PWO is better than nothing.
> 
> My point is, there'll be no difference if he gets a meal PWO instead. It'll be more satieing, and contain more nutrients. If the recovery shake is taken on top of his diet it could well chuck him above his necessary calorie limit to lose weight.


lol I had to lay down the basics to make my point for the 3rd time! ha

Wouldn't he be taking the kcal's from the shake into account when he's planning his diet? And also, you need to think about travelling time and cooking time which could well mean he's having his PWO meal 1 hr after he finishes in the gym.

p.s. i dont think this is going anywhere... :lol:


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

I think the speed of getting nutrients into the system should only be of concern if he was doing the cardio fasted, and even then I doubt it makes THAT much difference. He's doing cardio in the evening, so probably in the fed state, in which case he'll have aminos already circulating, so again waiting an hour afterwards (in a worse case scenario) to get some food inside him still isn't going to be catabolic.

The "need" for these PWO shakes comes from supplement industry marketing, there's scant research to show them to be better than whole foods - consider this for example: Chocolate Milk vs Surge Recovery.


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## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies I'm glad its thrown up a lot of discussion backed with theory.

I think I agree with Bayman even though I dont have the science to back it up. If I'm running a low carb/keto diet all day and doing low/med intensity cardo work is there really a need to go bashing 60 or 70 grams of carbs straight after the session if my aim is to lose weight? I always thought it didnt make sense.

The next question then would be do I run a 40g protein only shake immediately and then a meal? or just wait an hour for the meal?


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## WelshMan83 (Aug 23, 2010)

Would also just like to add Ive been running a keto diet for the past week and doing blood sugars for the past 3 days, only had one reading tip over 5.6 so far and that was a 6.4 after a big bag of vegetables. The strips for these things are expensive if its not already there anyone on a keto diet should post their meals on here and blood sugar levels after, save us other guys a bit of money and experimenting!


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