# Low cals & T3. Planning my cut. Any advice?



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

I have just done an unintentional 'dirty bulk' (well dirtier than it should have been) and I am now preparing for what is going to be a downright miserable existence.

I wonder if someone much more knowledgeable on weight loss than myself is able to explain what it is that causes weight loss to stall when you drop calories too low. Is it simply T3 or are there additional factors? If it is just this then presumably I can just take some exogenous T3 and run an anabolic and it won't really matter about the low cals, right?

Or perhaps this plan is completely retarded. I just feel so fu**ing fat right now and want to do this as fast as possible. The other thing about this diet is its really fu**ing cheap.

This would be what I'm eating week 1. With sibutramine to curb the hunger pangs it shouldn't be too difficult to stick to. I hope. I'm 210 probably about 14-18% atm. Feels bad.

BREAKFAST 4 medium eggs (23g protein) 246 kcal

Instant porridge w/sweetener 60g (17.2g protein) 366kcal

LUNCH

Seasoned White Fish Fillets (Alaska Pollock) x 3 (31g Protein) 141kcal

DINNER

250g lean beef mince with teaspoon honey, seasonings and tomatoes (5g added sugar) (32g protein) 330kcal

LATE NIGHT MEAL

Protein dynamix 3 scoops (60g protein) 300kcal

Tuna tin (26g protein) 110kcal

TOAL CALORIES 1493

TOTAL PROTEIN 198g

NOT COUNTING CALORIES FROM SEASONING (I have to keep sane) NON-STARCHY VEGETABLES OR TOMATOES. I'm also only really counting protein, so I will throw in up to 100g additional complex carbs per day from unprocessed sources only. DMAA for energy. Multivitamins and unlimited greens. One banana per day for potassium.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Calories are far too low, slow and steady is the key to being able to sustain the cut long enough to get to low BF.

Work out TDEE here www.tdeecalculator.net


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

210lbs 1493 calories day 1 of diet lmao

bump your calories up by at least 1k


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

orangeandpears said:


> 210lbs 1493 calories day 1 of diet lmao
> 
> bump your calories up by at least 1k


 According to the TDEE calculator bumping up calories by 'at least 1k' means I'll be over maintenance!

I have my TDEE calculated at 2493. (6ft, 27, sedentary job, 17% stats I used.)

So 1493 puts me at exactly 1k under maintenance (strange coincidence) which isn't unheard of with no vegetables, tomatoes etc accounted for. I can make my shake with 500ml whole milk which brings me up 225 cals and bags me an extra 17g protein. And chuck in 200g wholemeal pasta with my evening meal of beef mince which is an extra 262 cals and 10g protein.

So that puts me at 1980 plus green veg etc. and 225 protein. That would put me at 487 under maintenance.+ the extra calories expended on lifting and cardio days. What size deficit would you recommend?

I do want to strike a balance between being motivated by visual results and not losing my hard earned muscle. Especially since it would be a waste of a cycle.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Sparkey said:


> Calories are far too low, slow and steady is the key to being able to sustain the cut long enough to get to low BF.
> 
> Work out TDEE here www.tdeecalculator.net


 Thanks Sparkey!


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

mjl1990 said:


> According to the TDEE calculator bumping up calories by 'at least 1k' means I'll be over maintenance!
> 
> I have my TDEE calculated at 2493. (6ft, 27, sedentary job, 17% stats I used.)
> 
> ...


 1.5k calories is way too low you never need to go that low especially at the start of your diet! maybe at the end for a few weeks maybe. your body does not want to lose weight and it will stop after a couple months and you will f**k your metabolism up if you keep calories that low for long enough. Eat 2.5k calories and do some cardio and track if ur losing weight, If ur using weight loss drugs eg t3 clen and using test to maintain any muscle mass there is no reason you won't lose weight and be a lot healthier and safer than 1.5k, Drop your calories over a couple of weeks if weight loss stalls.

If u wanted to lose weight fast you should just do a dnp 3 week run at 250mg t3 50mg


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

As others have said, started way too low mate. Where are you gonna go when the weight loss slows down because your weight goes down? Good luck adding in more cardio when you're fu**ing knackered because you're eating like a 90lb woman :lol: I'd sooner run DNP than starve myself out.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

mjl1990 said:


> According to the TDEE calculator bumping up calories by 'at least 1k' means I'll be over maintenance!
> 
> I have my TDEE calculated at 2493. (6ft, 27, sedentary job, 17% stats I used.)
> 
> ...


 I would start at 2500.

Are you resistance training and or cardio?

The trick is to lower calories very slowly, and to take the calories from carbs.

Like I said, start at 2500 and do 3 x 30 cardio a week, just LISS incline walking on a treadmill or whatever you fancy.

Watch the weight, when it slows or stops, add a little more cardio in, say 4 x 30 mins or 3 x 45mins.

Again, watch the weight, this time when it stops you may want to reduce calories (if you feel your doing enough cardio).

At this point I would reduce calories by 100-150.

For you, I wouldn't be going much under 2000.

For last years cut I went from 16st 4lbs to 12st 8lbs (13st 8lbs in avi pic), lowest I went was 1800 calories.

Cut lasted 30 weeks (went slightly pear shaped when I added Superdrol in at 26 weeks and gained a stone in 4 weeks, however the end result was better than I could have hoped for).

Starting this years cut again soon, presently I'm sitting dead on 17st after a huge Test and Deca bulk, no visible abs but no flab hanging over the jeans etc.

I'm hoping to be fairly shredded at around 13.5 st this year, but I'll have to see as I get into it.

Good luck.

This is a great post from @Pscarb and well worth a read, it helped me out on my first real cut.

I would also advise you have a look at his profile and read through his past threads.

I was stuck at 14 stones, no matter what I did, the weight wouldn't shift, after 4 weeks I was ready to pack it all in, but stumbled over Paul's thread.

Half way through he mentioned that he had started to do cardio twice a day, 45 mins am and 45 mins post workout, I tried it and the weight loss instantly restarted.

I got leaner than I had ever been before.

https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/18099-how-i-prepare-for-a-bodybuilding-comp/?do=embed


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Sparkey said:


> I would start at 2500.
> 
> Are you resistance training and or cardio?
> 
> ...


 Thanks I will take a look at PScarb's log.

I am resistance training and will be doing cardio. Would you say LISS is better than HIIT on a cut?

The last time I dieted I got down to 14 stone and just couldnt get any lower so perhaps that is because my calories were too low. Plus I was using T3 at a fairly high dose.

What drugs will you be using on your cut?


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

mjl1990 said:


> Thanks I will take a look at PScarb's log.
> 
> I am resistance training and will be doing cardio. Would you say LISS is better than HIIT on a cut?
> 
> ...


 most definitely thats why! your body resists and needs new ways to lose weight either drugs, exercise or lowering calories and you just got rid of 1/3 of ur tools to lose weight day 1 haha. DNP is the best weight loss drug but research how to use it safely and then the standard t3 and clen also, test/tren are a nice base to maintain muscle mass while shedding as much fast as possible. Type of cardio does not really matter just bump it up if your weight loss stalls.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

mjl1990 said:


> Thanks I will take a look at PScarb's log.
> 
> I am resistance training and will be doing cardio. Would you say LISS is better than HIIT on a cut?
> 
> ...


 Do whatever cardio you want, I've always done LISS.

When you get deep into a cut ,doing 45 mins cardio twice a day on a heavy deficit, I couldn't imagine doing HIIT.

After a while I use carb cycling and have to have a refeed meal every week .

Accessories last year were:

*VITAMINS*
Vitamin C 1000mg split x4
Vitamin D + Calcium 400iu x 2 
Vit B6 100mg x 1
Multivit x 2
Omega 3 1000mg x10 
Omega 6 1000mg x 2
Glucosamine 1000mg x 1
Odourless Garlic 1000mg x 1
*LIVER SUPPORT *
Tudca 250mg x 2 
N.A.C 600MG X 2 
*PROSTATE SUPPORT*
Saw Palmetto 500mg x 1 
*BLOOD PRESSURE SUPPORT *
Hawthorn berry 1000mg x 1
*HDL/LDL SUPPORT* 
Red Yeast Rice + Policosanol 600mg x 2 
*MISC*
DHEA 25mg x 2
Aspirin 75mg pre bed.
Melatonin 3mg before bed.
*PRE & POST WORKOUT*

Caffeine 200mg x 2 pre.
Creatine Ethyl Ester (4g pre, 4g post)
L-Glutamine (1.4g pre, 1.4g post).
BCAA 1000MG (2g pre, 2g post)

*CURRENT CUTTING CYCLE *
200mg Test C E10D (will continue to cruise at this dose).
600mg Mast E (for the last 30 days of the cut I did 1.2g Mast E a week).
400mg Primo D. 
100mg Winstrol
50mg Proviron. 
20mg Superdrol (last 4 weeks I did wk1: 10mg wk2: 20mg wk3: 30mg wk4: 40mg).
T3 was between 25mcg and 100mcg throughout the whole 30 weeks.
Clen 200 (14 on 14 off, started at week 16).
30mg Yohimbine (am fasted). 
*PEPTIDES* (all taken am, pre fasted cardio then no food for 3 hours after).
500mcg HGH FRAG 176 -191 
100mcg Hexarelin 
100mcg CJC-1295 W/O Dac 
*A.i *
Letro 1.25 E3D (no longer needed as I've had my glands removed).
*WATER*
5 Litres a day with 2 x Electrolyte tabs


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Okay lads thanks for that all the advice and I will keep you informed how this goes.

I am starting week 1 now. The first week I am doing 2500 cals which the deficit coming from 50mcg T3 and additional cardio plus running DMAA and Yohimbine.

From Week 2 I will be switching the DMAA for Clen (my first time running this).

The only thing Im left in two minds about is the use of anabolic on a cutting cycle. I have read two conflicting schools of thought.

1. That its best to save your early cycles for bulks whilst your receptors are still new to this (I've only done one cycle so far)

2. That running test on a cut is even more important than on a bulk and its nigh on impossible to hold onto a decent amount of muscle naturally.

What are your thoughts on these?


----------



## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

use DNP to get to 12% then clen to get to 10% then use the anabolics to bulk depending where you are would only take 6 weeks to get to a decent 12%


----------



## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

mjl1990 said:


> Okay lads thanks for that all the advice and I will keep you informed how this goes.
> 
> I am starting week 1 now. The first week I am doing 2500 cals which the deficit coming from 50mcg T3 and additional cardio plus running DMAA and Yohimbine.
> 
> ...


 Don't cut natty is my advice unless you want to look weak and small. Especially in a deficit and t3.


----------



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

mjl1990 said:


> Okay lads thanks for that all the advice and I will keep you informed how this goes.
> 
> I am starting week 1 now. The first week I am doing 2500 cals which the deficit coming from 50mcg T3 and additional cardio plus running DMAA and Yohimbine.
> 
> ...


 Save your Yohimbine until right at the end of your cut, it only works when very lean to get the last bit of stomach fat off, wouldn't bother using it unless your south of 10% BF.

You also need to take it fasted, first thing in the morning whilst doing cardio is ideal.

As far as your Test question, cutting to V low BF levels whilst 'natty' will smash your natural testosterone levels, one guy on here @biomechanicalBen did this very thing whilst cutting for his first comp, last time he was on, he was looking at TRT because his natural test level wouldn't come back up.


----------



## Devil (May 31, 2016)

Disagree surprisingly with a lot of good posters in this forum.

1800 cals, with adequate protein, AAS/T3 and cardio, you will drop fat like a stone and retain bascially all muscle mass.

Metabolism down regulating or "getting used to it etc" is so overhyped. Just don't do this longer than 6-8 weeks.

And for where your calories will go lower when you lose fat and then "stop losing fat" - this won't happen. You will just lose slightly less fat at the end of the diet vs the start as your tdee will naturally come down with weight therefore creating a smaller (but still significant) deficit.

So 1800-2000 calories. 200g+ protein. 50mcg t3. 400-500mg gear. Cardio 3-4x a week alongside usual lifting for 6-8 weeks.

I guarantee you will be getting leaner even at 8 weeks.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Devil said:


> Disagree surprisingly with a lot of good posters in this forum.
> 
> 1800 cals, with adequate protein, AAS/T3 and cardio, you will drop fat like a stone and retain bascially all muscle mass.
> 
> ...


 See, I want to believe this as it suits me down to the ground.

For me the hardest part about this lifestyle is that there are so many different thoughts and beliefs out there. I guess all I can do is try both approaches and see which works better.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

(Perhaps somewhat surprisingly) this has been going really well.

Stuck to 1900 - 2100 every day and not missed any sessions. Lift's have actually gone up. Gone from fat bastard to top abs showing in the mirror and actually looking like I lift.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

So this is where i'm at. (left: before) Will keep going. 11 weeks in. Happier with what I see in the mirror but alot to do. 16st 10 to 13st 6. Finally, a bit... look like I go to the gym.


----------



## Haymz (Mar 26, 2018)

mjl1990 said:


> So this is where i'm at. (left: before) Will keep going. 11 weeks in. Happier with what I see in the mirror but alot to do. 16st 10 to 13st 6. Finally, a bit... look like I go to the gym.
> 
> View attachment 155277


 Looking good buddy. What plan did you go with in the end? How many calories? Much cardio? T3, etc?

Hitting a massive plateau on my cut so could use a fresh bit of inspiration.


----------



## mjl1990 (Feb 1, 2016)

Haymz said:


> Looking good buddy. What plan did you go with in the end? How many calories? Much cardio? T3, etc?
> 
> Hitting a massive plateau on my cut so could use a fresh bit of inspiration.


 Hi mate

Went with 2,000 cals, 190g protein and the rest from carbs and fats (more carbs than fats though for fullness and muscle retention.)

T3 I kept at 100mcg for the first 4 weeks before dropping it down to 75mcg for the next 4 and now Im on 50mcg. The reason for the high T3 at the start was really to give me a bit of a kick start and get me through that horrible stage at the beginning of the cut where you look the same, just smaller. You couldntreally see any muscle definition so flatness was no concern.

Any anabolic will do though preferably something dry. Been running maintenance dose of test with 50mg Var daily.

How much have you lost so far?


----------

