# Slin pre-traing...



## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

anyone had any experience taking Slin pre-training?

i started my summer cycle yesterday with 4iu's split over the day, but i hear slin is excellent pre-training?

yesterday i decided to run 2iu's with breaky, then jabbed 4iu's in my car right before training. Felt like i got some strength increases, whether it was a placebo effect im not sure, but pump was definately better.

if i was to run 2iu's am, 4iu's pre-training, would i run another 2iu's before my 1st solid meal post-workout aswell?

so would look like, 2iu, 4iu, 2iu. That any good?

may increase Slin dose over time too.

i have had 10iu's in the past, 2x 5iu jabs, but never ran pre-training.

had a sugary Pro-Napalm intra-training with dextrose tabs on had. Was fine, no shakes or signs of hypo.


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## PharmaSay (Jun 9, 2010)

I have used differnt types of insulin preWO, some are great others less so.

levemir; ~ 7iu taken an hour pre training kicks in fully later on in the session to leave me invigourated and vascular.

humulin S; ~4iu taken 15 min beforehand good only if training is is<60 min

humalog; second peak felt aweful and seemed to just be more of a worry, im not convinced it does much outside of the liver.

I love levemir and would used it more if GHRP/H's gave me less CTS.

My take on slin is that less is best, especially when you find your fav type 

"if i was to run 2iu's am, 4iu's pre-training, would i run another 2iu's before my 1st solid meal post-workout aswell?

so would look like, 2iu, 4iu, 2iu. That any good?"

looks superb


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

ive also been told just recently that 2iu is only enough to replace your own natural insulin level release, and there could be no real benefit from a low dose.

thoughts?

Its the NovoRapid im using too.


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## PharmaSay (Jun 9, 2010)

2iu is only enought to raise insulin above endogenous levels a smidgin, the possibility is that an overlap may happen with the second peak. Its all pretty personal TBH 2-3iu is enought for me to feel, but 4-5iu is better.

I try to balance out slins negative effects with possitive; My low dose insulin use is so that i dont get fat and also not get CTS from ghrp/h, if these are less of an issue then insulin could be raised higher.

I bloody hate novorapid but everyone here loves the stuff so I hope my rambling incoherent mutterings are of some use :/


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> ive also been told just recently that 2iu is only enough to replace your own natural insulin level release, and there could be no real benefit from a low dose.
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> Its the NovoRapid im using too.


if you don't want to get fat..novorapid is definitely the better choice over the 30/70 mixes and long acting insulins.

I think all you're doing is gradually decreasing your 'slin sensitivity, with very little result.

You can do 2-3iu with no carbs at all.. (in fact 3iu every 4hours with no carbs is the best way to get into ketosis if you follow that diet).

What's your goal? muscle mass?

In that case, 7-10iu 3xday works VERY well; one of these post-workout. Nothing stopping the use pre-workout, but on back and leg days, many find they may go a little hypo... PWO seems the better choice. Believe me, if you do this at breakfast and lunch, you will be full, strong and PUMPED during your evening workout... and really remain that way with PWO shot.

I would only run this for 4 weeks (in fact i only do EOD during the 4 weeks); then run metformin for 4 weeks at 1500mg/day to get maximum insulin senstivity back.. then repeat should you wish..


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

well i started my summer cycle on monday, currently running;

2ml EquiTren 800mg (500mgEQ 300mg Tren-en per 1ml) PW

2ml Mast-en 200mg PW

1m GB T350 PW

40mg Thai Brit Dbol ED

5iu Hyge pre-bed on training days, 4x per week. But as of next week i'm running 8iu 4x per week.

what to lean bulk but hopefully get some good muscle volume from Slin.

what you think?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> well i started my summer cycle on monday, currently running;
> 
> 2ml EquiTren 800mg (500mgEQ 300mg Tren-en per 1ml) PW
> 
> ...


AAS is simple- take enough you do get bigger, so if you're happy with your cycle keep going. If it was me, I'd run some T400 at 2mL a week rather than the masteron as masteron doesn't add any size (its a tool for pre-comp).

The important fix is you HGH. Unless you're over 60, don't take HGH pre-bed!!! HGH was only prescribed pre-bed for people who really need HGH (those that have no release of their own).

See your biggest natural pulse is about 2hours after you go to sleep... but if you have a shot of 2iu before bed.. it suppresses your own release for about 3hours.. so you lose out on your own biggest pulse...

split your HGH to 2iu shots through the day if possible (at least 2 shots of 2.5iu). Take your 'slin in the morn (7iu say); 20-30mins later, take 2.5 iu GH.

You could also do the second HGH shot PWO with your 'slin as well..

the best thing is, 7iu of 'slin increases GH receptors (so wait 20-30mins before you take the GH after the slin shot); also HGH keeps you leaner while taking slin... so they work well together.

You will put more size on from proper slin use, than from GH alone..at any dose.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

what about carbs blunting GH? I was under the impression GH taken too close to food consumption weakens GH? Thats why i always have GH about 45mins after my pre-bed casein shake or CC etc.

in the mornings i have my Slin followed straight away by breaky, which is a slice of Burgen toast and 3x scoops of either Boditronics Mass Attack or Extreme Mass (maltodextrin based). So if i have Slin, breaky, would the carbs/sugars of my Gainer shake blunt any GH i jab 30mins afterwards?

same with PWO. I use 50grams whey with 40grams dextrose PWO. Wouldnt the carbs from this blunt any GH i jab PWO?

thanks.

really scratching my head now lol

taking mast-en as im pretty lean at the moment, dont want to bloat too much of test. Will post a pic after lunch.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

current condition, well taken afew days before start of this cycle;


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> what about carbs blunting GH? I was under the impression GH taken too close to food consumption weakens GH? Thats why i always have GH about 45mins after my pre-bed casein shake or CC etc.
> 
> in the mornings i have my Slin followed straight away by breaky, which is a slice of Burgen toast and 3x scoops of either Boditronics Mass Attack or Extreme Mass (maltodextrin based). So if i have Slin, breaky, would the carbs/sugars of my Gainer shake blunt any GH i jab 30mins afterwards?
> 
> ...


LOL ok you're basically only a few weeks of comp shape- so you may as well stick with the masteron- but... it really adds no mass.. a bit of bloat from test (but not if you take arimidex with it) and you get more mass..

OK. GH. For fat loss, if you have any energy substrate in your system (including carbs) you will not get maximum fat loss- as GH increases the release of Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) by up to 35%, but not if you already have other energy sources in your blood (eg glucose from eating carbs).

However, you're not dieting (as you're using 'slin for mass right?) so from that perspective you will still benefit from the GH keeping you lean (but not as lean as without slin!) while you mass up with 'slin..

While I understand a lean bulk... you're ripped... and its very hard to put muscle on and stay THAT lean...

At any rate, carbs don't "weaken" GH- GH still causes a cascade of hormones, which ends up in IGF-1 release, irrespective of the food you eat.

Don't confuse the use of of mod GRF (1-29) and GHRP2/6 etc, where fats or carbs WILL BLUNT their release of GH.... but this is NOT the case for when you inject GH...


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## gooner fc (Feb 7, 2009)

Clubber Lang said:


> current condition, well taken afew days before start of this cycle;


looking very lean mate would like to see the end results at the end of the cycle?? :thumbup1:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

chilisi said:


> Looking awesome mate. Very lean.
> 
> Pre workout slin is awesome. The pump is amazing
> 
> I'm running 10ius 3x a day. I make sure I get in my Creatine and BCAA around the Slin shots post work out.


good point! creatine is ONLY worth taking when taking 'slin


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## gooner fc (Feb 7, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> good point! creatine is ONLY worth taking when taking 'slin


Hi mate would you say before you use slin, would you advise being a certain body fat before using it.


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## mattW (Jan 12, 2009)

subscribing to this so can read properly when I get home. some great info here. reps ausbuilt.


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## gooner fc (Feb 7, 2009)

mattW said:


> subscribing to this so can read properly when I get home. some great info here. reps ausbuilt.


 x2


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> LOL ok you're basically only a few weeks of comp shape- so you may as well stick with the masteron- but... it really adds no mass.. a bit of bloat from test (but not if you take arimidex with it) and you get more mass..
> 
> OK. GH. For fat loss, if you have any energy substrate in your system (including carbs) you will not get maximum fat loss- as GH increases the release of Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) by up to 35%, but not if you already have other energy sources in your blood (eg glucose from eating carbs).
> 
> ...


hmm, have to get my head round that one lol

so in short, it doesnt matter when you jab GH, empty stomach, full stomach, it'll not be blunted?


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

chilisi said:


> Looking awesome mate. Very lean.
> 
> Pre workout slin is awesome. The pump is amazing
> 
> I'm running 10ius 3x a day. I make sure I get in my Creatine and BCAA around the Slin shots post work out.


30iu of Slin ED? mother of god lol

how much do you take pre-training?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> 30iu of Slin ED? mother of god lol
> 
> how much do you take pre-training?


Pretty common to take 30-50iu day- however, I'd think if you're over the 30iu mark, you're getting insulin insensitive.

if you're looking to maximise GH effects- then 7iu 'slin is the magic amount.

If you only want to do pre-training, then 7iu pre-workout.

However, if you really want to put on some mass- 7-10iu 3x day (one can be pre OR post workout).

Chillsi may want to chime in with experience here too..


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Cant wait to start slin next few weeks. Aus, would you mind a pm from me, just wanted to ask something about timing the slin around my current diet to make the most of it and limit fat gain.

Looking brilliant clubber, you have grown nicely from the last pics i saw a while since.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

gooner fc said:


> Hi mate would you say before you use slin, would you advise being a certain body fat before using it.


if you're over 15%... I'd probably say hold of... as its even harder to judge when you're putting on some extra fat...

you can balance your carbs needed for the 'slin in your overall daily cals... just takes care with the diet..

The leaner you are, the more effect you notice... but thats coz you're lean..


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> Pretty common to take 30-50iu day- however, I'd think if you're over the 30iu mark, you're getting insulin insensitive.
> 
> if you're looking to maximise GH effects- then 7iu 'slin is the magic amount.
> 
> ...


so if i say to you im looking at a fairly lean bulk cycle, wanting good muscle fullness with good vascular effects, what dose of Slin (NovoRapid, all i can get) would you recommend? And when taken exactly?

much appreciated


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> hmm, have to get my head round that one lol
> 
> so in short, it doesnt matter when you jab GH, empty stomach, full stomach, it'll not be blunted?


in short, if bulking (lean) thats true, as the GH will STILL convert to IGF-1; however for optimal effects, you'd have to be dieting (in fact GH works best on FFAs when you're FASTED...) so as a lean bulk you're not optimally bulking, but not optimally dieting, you're somewhere in between at ANY rate.. if you where dieting stricty I'd say no food for 2hours before the GH shot, and none for at least 1 hour (2hours better) after..

However, in this case you're after something different- a synergy with 'slin for both mass, and some lean effects (but mass first, otherwise why bother with the 'slin?)



Clubber Lang said:


> so if i say to you im looking at a fairly lean bulk cycle, wanting good muscle fullness with good vascular effects, what dose of Slin (NovoRapid, all i can get) would you recommend? And when taken exactly?
> 
> much appreciated


based on your size, i'd say don't bother with 7iu, go straight to 10iu 3x day. i think the best effects would be one of these shots post workout. If you work out in the morning, you'd have had a shot with breakfast, and prob do another shot post workout (but u want 2 hours between shots).

if you work out evenings, I'd say breakfast, lunch and post workout; believe me, you will be FULL from the lunch/afternoon shot, even in your early evening workout...

if you want times.. tell me when you usually train eat- and we can fit it in around those times for you.. along with either incorporating it in your current calories, or as an addition.


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## Aggression (Apr 13, 2009)

Clubber Lang said:


> current condition, well taken afew days before start of this cycle;


Dude, why have you Iron Mike and not the real Clubber Lang as your avi pic? Looking great (a tad Trey Brewer)


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

Im toying of using it for the last 5 weeks of my next prep, never used it before. What do you think the best protocol for that would be? I was thinking 5ius after fasted cardio/before breakfast and then 5ius post workout ( train in the afternoons around 2 ) before post workout meal, would that be any good?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

chilisi said:


> I think you may have all the bases covered
> 
> I will add though. Running Slin at 10ius 3 times daily, keeps me full and pumped all day.
> 
> ...


Actually thats a good point- I've posted this previously, but forgot to add here- I firmly believe extra T3 (T4 instead if using HGH) is essential when running slin. Not 100% for fat loss like people usually think, but for this reason:

"...The *thyroid* gland c*ontrols how quickly the body *uses energy, *makes proteins*, and controls how sensitive the body should be to other hormones."

(from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid)

so it works VERY synergistically with insulin, which has these effects:

Physiological effects

The actions of insulin on the global human metabolism level include:

Control of cellular intake of certain substances, most prominently glucose in muscle and adipose tissue (about two-thirds of body cells)

*Increase of DNA replication and protein synthesis via control of amino acid uptake*

Modification of the activity of numerous enzymes

The actions of insulin (indirect and direct) on cells include:

*Increased glycogen synthesis - insulin forces storage of glucose in liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen*; lowered levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin, which is directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.

Increased lipid synthesis - insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.

Increased esterification of fatty acids - forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.

*Decreased proteolysis - decreasing the breakdown of protein*

Decreased lipolysis - forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.

Decreased gluconeogenesis - decreases production of glucose from nonsugar substrates, primarily in the liver (the vast majority of endogenous insulin arriving at the liver never leaves the liver); lack of insulin causes glucose production from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.

Decreased autophagy - decreased level of degradation of damaged organelles. Postprandial levels inhibit autophagy completely.[26]

*Increased amino acid uptake - forces cells to absorb circulating amino acids*; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.

Increased potassium uptake - forces cells to absorb serum potassium; lack of insulin inhibits absorption. Insulin's increase in cellular potassium uptake lowers potassium levels in blood. This possible occurs via insulin-induced translocation of the Na+/K+-ATPase to the surface of skeletal muscle cells.[27][28]

so you can see why increased thryoid supplementation is useful with increased insulin...



big silver back said:


> Im toying of using it for the last 5 weeks of my next prep, never used it before. What do you think the best protocol for that would be? I was thinking 5ius after fasted cardio/before breakfast and then 5ius post workout ( train in the afternoons around 2 ) before post workout meal, would that be any good?


you look rather on the large and experienced trainer side.. to say the least ;-) so same as I said to clubber lang (and chilsi) 7 iu is prob still on the low side- go straight to 10iu per shot/3x day; do it for 4 weeks (I did it EOD with DNP and no test, and put on 10lbs and lost 1" on my waist..).

After 4weeks you may find that you don't get quite the same effect- and some just up the dose to a total of 45-60iu/day, however I'd say the better course of action is just to stop at 4 weeks, take metformin @ 1500mg/day for those 4 weeks and get your insulin sensitivity back, even better than new so to speak.

I still stand by the most effective protocol is 3x day, and one of these being post workout; if you train in the morning, its a bit of a challenge- you can do a shot with breakfast/before gym, and again post workout- as long as you have 2 hours between the shots (using novorapid or humalog).


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

you look rather on the large and experienced trainer side.. to say the least ;-) so same as I said to clubber lang (and chilsi) 7 iu is prob still on the low side- go straight to 10iu per shot/3x day; do it for 4 weeks (I did it EOD with DNP and no test, and put on 10lbs and lost 1" on my waist..).

After 4weeks you may find that you don't get quite the same effect- and some just up the dose to a total of 45-60iu/day, however I'd say the better course of action is just to stop at 4 weeks, take metformin @ 1500mg/day for those 4 weeks and get your insulin sensitivity back, even better than new so to speak.

I still stand by the most effective protocol is 3x day, and one of these being post workout; if you train in the morning, its a bit of a challenge- you can do a shot with breakfast/before gym, and again post workout- as long as you have 2 hours between the shots (using novorapid or humalog).


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## mattW (Jan 12, 2009)

Ausbuilt, what about if you wanted to run it for longer than 4 weeks, do you think running metformin alongside this protocol would delay or stop insulin resistance allowing prolonged use?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

mattW said:


> Ausbuilt, what about if you wanted to run it for longer than 4 weeks, do you think running metformin alongside this protocol would delay or stop insulin resistance allowing prolonged use?


i think as you go past 6 weeks you increase your chances of fat gain- perhaps owing to increasing doses/insulin insensitivity.

You could run met with 'slin, but a better drug is avandia. I have to two friends who've avandia, and i've used glipizide (years ago). I don't recommend glipizide as i found the effects unpredictable- really hard to control. Avandia seems to be better- take one tab every morning for the entire time you're on the 'slin; prob works better for a 8-16weeks cycle, which I'm not a fan of. I've come to like repeated short cycles (i've given up blast/cruise AAS for the same reason).

running avandia should mean you could sit on 5-6iu/shot instead of 10+ per shot.. so the lower 'slin use over time delays the sensitivity loss, and avandia works better the longer your on it..

I admit i got the avandia tip from a book called "building the perfect beast" as it wasn't available when i did glipizide; two mates of mine in Oz have tried Avandia (based on the same book) and been happy with results. I haven't used it (so i point out this fact), and I probably won't as I prefer short cycles now. However you have the choice should you wish to go the longer cycle.

My rationale is, despite how good 'slin +T3 (or T4 & GH) are at building muscle, if I can put 10lbs on in 4 weeks (i admit with DNP to keep lean!) the body can't keep putting that much muscle on, and in fact al lot of the weight gain had to just cell volume (though I only dropped 2lbs when i stopped), I don't see the body doing this continously... without adding fat too.. so i figure build some muscle, recover, repeat.. etc so more frequent cycles.

Am starting my next 'slin+DNP cycle on monday.


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## methos (Dec 23, 2008)

big silver back said:


> I still stand by the most effective protocol is 3x day, and one of these being post workout; if you train in the morning, its a bit of a challenge- you can do a shot with breakfast/before gym, and again post workout- as long as you have 2 hours between the shots (using novorapid or humalog).


Looking to start slin in the next few weeks. I've got humalog fast acting. Currently running 1000mg Cyp, 4iu GH, 2000mcg Met and 50mcg T3. Thinking of going with the above method of 3 x 7iu a day EOD. As I train in the morning at 9am and usually have brekkie around 8am would you suggest 7iu with brek, 7iu with my PWO shake at around 10:30 or rather wait until 12 to have it with my meal and then again 7iu at either 4:30 or 6:30 with a meal?

Thanks!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

methos said:


> Looking to start slin in the next few weeks. I've got humalog fast acting. Currently running 1000mg Cyp, 4iu GH, 2000mcg Met and 50mcg T3. Thinking of going with the above method of 3 x 7iu a day EOD. As I train in the morning at 9am and usually have brekkie around 8am would you suggest 7iu with brek, 7iu with my PWO shake at around 10:30 or rather wait until 12 to have it with my meal and then again 7iu at either 4:30 or 6:30 with a meal?
> 
> Thanks!


as long as you have 2-3hours between shots, you're fine- so breakfast and then PWO at 10:30 is fine. 3rd shot late afternoon or early evening- up to you.

I'd look at changing the 50mcg T3 to 200mcg T4 since you're running HGH, and don't do the met during the 'slin days. You could use it on the the non-slin days i guess (its more predictable to use 'slin without met).


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## LOCUST (May 4, 2006)

Hmm interesting I've been using at breakfast with met the pre work out.

But this is my 1st week.

I'd like to make my pre workout shot my last as it's at 6pm.

So could I do morning 8am lunch 1.30 pm then pre work out 6pm.

And run this every day? Even off training days?

Thanks in advance.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> in short, if bulking (lean) thats true, as the GH will STILL convert to IGF-1; however for optimal effects, you'd have to be dieting (in fact GH works best on FFAs when you're FASTED...) so as a lean bulk you're not optimally bulking, but not optimally dieting, you're somewhere in between at ANY rate.. if you where dieting stricty I'd say no food for 2hours before the GH shot, and none for at least 1 hour (2hours better) after..
> 
> However, in this case you're after something different- a synergy with 'slin for both mass, and some lean effects (but mass first, otherwise why bother with the 'slin?)
> 
> ...


average daily diet looks like;

8am, 3x scoops Extreme Mass by Extreme Nutrition, 1x slice Burgen bread

10am, 1x CNP Flapjack + 40grams whey protein

12am/noon, tuna sandwich.

2pm, 100gram white basmati rice, 250gram chicken fillets

3pm, pre-workout supp, Animal Pump

4pm, train

Intra-training, 1x large scoop BBW Excel powder

5pm'ish, PWO Shake, 50grams whey, 40grams dextrose

6pm, 100gram white basmati rice, 300grams rump steak

8pm, CNP Pro-XS bar

9pm, 1x tub CC with pineapple

10-10:30pm, Casein shake


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

chilisi said:


> Are you running the new Hyge green tops?


yeah been on the new Tribal Hyges since March.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

chilisi said:


> Cool. Running it now myself. Haven't heard of anyone else using the new tops yet!?


nor me. All the new Tribals ive had or have, have MfG dates of just before xmas onwards, which is roughly 6months behind us. Suprised they arent more common.

those that have used the Tribal Hyges speak highly of them.


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## methos (Dec 23, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> as long as you have 2-3hours between shots, you're fine- so breakfast and then PWO at 10:30 is fine. 3rd shot late afternoon or early evening- up to you.
> 
> I'd look at changing the 50mcg T3 to 200mcg T4 since you're running HGH, and don't do the met during the 'slin days. You could use it on the the non-slin days i guess (its more predictable to use 'slin without met).


Ideal cheers for the info. I'll do exactly that then. Change the T3 and use the met non slin days.

Maybe a silly question but would there be anything recommended to drink during training if using a prewo shot of slin? I currently only drink water but have read a few threads about having glucose rich drinks when doing prewo shots of slin.


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## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

If I cannot do the 30iu protocol (don't like the idea of taking slin pens to work too often!) would 20iu ED be a starting point? Also, surely the use of slin pre-training and then HGH post will help release IGF? Or would it be more efficent to simply use IGF post workout for this side?


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## JohnR (May 29, 2008)

split your HGH to 2iu shots through the day if possible (at least 2 shots of 2.5iu). Take your 'slin in the morn (7iu say); 20-30mins later, take 2.5 iu GH.

You could also do the second HGH shot PWO with your 'slin as well..

the best thing is, 7iu of 'slin increases GH receptors (so wait 20-30mins before you take the GH after the slin shot); also HGH keeps you leaner while taking slin... so they work well together.

You will put more size on from proper slin use, than from GH alone..at any dose.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

so just to some up, my slin and GH jabs would be;

(as example of average day)

8am, 10iu Slin straight with breakfast

830am, GH (half daily dose)

330pm, 10iu Slin

4pm, GH (remaining daily dose)

4-5pm, Train

6pm, PWO meal + 10iu Slin?

whens best to take my 3rd and last jab of Slin?

seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now :thumb:

thanks


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Can you just clarify a couple of things please So if taking GH alongside Slin ideally youd get up in morning take your 7-10ius of slin wait 20 mins then take your GH When do you eat ? Before or after you take GH Then later take your second slin shot how long before you eat lunch? Then your final slin shot Post or Pre w.out & take your GH 20mins later Again when do you have your PWO drink ?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> so just to some up, my slin and GH jabs would be;
> 
> (as example of average day)
> 
> ...


i would have the 3rd jab immediately after training (in the gym loo); have your shake covering your protein and carbs 10-15min later. have a proper meal when you get home.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> average daily diet looks like;
> 
> 8am, 3x scoops Extreme Mass by Extreme Nutrition, 1x slice Burgen bread
> 
> ...


you could cover your carb needs by adding a little extra maltodextrin and dextrose (50/50) at breakfast, and add another shake with your tuna sandwich (with the same dextrose/malto dextrose mix) and just upping your dextrose a little in your current PWO shake.

Yes its a few more cals, but the whole point of insulin is you need to take in more cals..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

methos said:


> Ideal cheers for the info. I'll do exactly that then. Change the T3 and use the met non slin days.
> 
> Maybe a silly question but would there be anything recommended to drink during training if using a prewo shot of slin? I currently only drink water but have read a few threads about having glucose rich drinks when doing prewo shots of slin.


you may want to save money and mix your own "glucose drink" (ie add some dextrose to water). You should be fine most days (esp if you do 10g carbs per iu), but on back and leg days you may need a carb drink.

Frankly I think pre-workout is the worst time for 'slin becuase of that reason, but also, if you take 7-10iu in the morning, and another 7-10 iu in the afternoon... your muscle ARE full... you will not be more pumped by taking the 'slin pre-workout (this would only be the case if you did 1xshot of 'slin a day); and there are more benefits to haveing the 'slin drive aminos + carbs into the worked muscles post workout..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Papa Lazarou said:


> If I cannot do the 30iu protocol (don't like the idea of taking slin pens to work too often!) would 20iu ED be a starting point? Also, surely the use of slin pre-training and then HGH post will help release IGF? Or would it be more efficent to simply use IGF post workout for this side?


sure, you could do breakfast+post-workout or lunch and post-workout (its good to get one shot in to fill the muscles before you workout a few hours, and then again post).

However, you could do before work, lunch time and afterwork? (i just duck of the loo with a novorapid pen in my pocket. I don't bother with swabs- i notice most diabetics i know don't either... and its quick and easy- I also don't prime the pen- only an issue with 2-3iu doses, i just click in 10iu and click..)

from the people i've seen once a day is to little for any noticeable gain, twice a day may be ok, 3x day gives great results, so i haven't tried 4 times- but i don't think i could cope with the even bigger calorie increase....


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> you could cover your carb needs by adding a little extra maltodextrin and dextrose (50/50) at breakfast, and add another shake with your tuna sandwich (with the same dextrose/malto dextrose mix) and just upping your dextrose a little in your current PWO shake.
> 
> Yes its a few more cals, but the whole point of insulin is you need to take in more cals..


cool.

think ive got all area's pretty much covered now.

appreciate your time and help, many thanks


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> cool.
> 
> think ive got all area's pretty much covered now.
> 
> appreciate your time and help, many thanks


no probs... just wondering how much bigger you're planning on getting? LOL massive right now! Going for a pro-ticket??

pesonally, I'm not shooting for much more weight overall... in fact i'm 242lb at the moment.. so my max at my current BF is 250lb.. otherwise I just won't fit into any work suits properly..


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## methos (Dec 23, 2008)

ausbuilt said:


> you may want to save money and mix your own "glucose drink" (ie add some dextrose to water). You should be fine most days (esp if you do 10g carbs per iu), but on back and leg days you may need a carb drink.
> 
> Frankly I think pre-workout is the worst time for 'slin becuase of that reason, but also, if you take 7-10iu in the morning, and another 7-10 iu in the afternoon... your muscle ARE full... you will not be more pumped by taking the 'slin pre-workout (this would only be the case if you did 1xshot of 'slin a day); and there are more benefits to haveing the 'slin drive aminos + carbs into the worked muscles post workout..


Cool cheers for that advice again mate. I'll just save money and get myself a dextrose drink then. Just a bit worried about hypos. Mrs is type 1 and I've seen some of her hypos, far worse than any roid rage lol!


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## LOCUST (May 4, 2006)

Sorry if I've missed it but is this 3 times a day protocol every day or just training days?


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## JohnR (May 29, 2008)

Thanks again Ausbuilt So just to recap the ideal protocol for using a combination of GH & Slin would be Get up in morning take your Slin 15mins later eat brekfast 30 mins after slin take your half daily dose of GH Lunchtime take 2nd shot of slin 15mins later eat lunch PWO final shot of slin 15 mins later PWO shake 30mins after slin 2nd dose of GH hour later solid meal Is there anything Ive got wrong or missed out ? Sorry to repeat myself but I need everything in laymans term


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry to keep on with the questions but i take my gh soon as i wake and before fasted cardio, how would i do the slin? i cant take it 20 mins before the gh because i dont want to eat? And like i said i only want to take it last few weeks of my prep because i found it really hard to keep full looking last year, do you think that would be ok or do you think it would be better right though my prep? Sorry for being a pain and thanks for the advice.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

chilisi said:


> *You must be going for 40ius a day?*
> 
> have one between 830am and 1230pm, with a shake or meal.
> 
> or have it before PWO meal if your doing 30ius a day.


haha, easy tiger!

definately wont be going above the 30iu mark this time round, still a huge learning curve at the moment.

two other questions i have which mite aswell be asked on here, as i know theres a fair few slin beginners/newbies viewing,

i always have a Gainer shake for breaky with some toast, mostly due to the fact i struggle eatting solids first thing in the mornings. Currently im using Extreme Mass for the 1st time, but before that ive always used a Low-GI based Gainer like Mass Attack or Instant Mass. Question is, do i need, or am i best, to stick with a High-GI based Gainer with Maltodextrin/Dextrose while using Slin? Are oats, barley etc too slow absorbing with Slin and would they increase the chance of going Hypo?

also, i was planning on running a low dose of pharma T3 & Clen to keep alittle body fat off or at bay, but this idea was before i decided to use Slin. Would running T3 & Clen ED make much difference with a high carb intake and Slin? Still worth running fat burners along side Slin?

was just thinking of 25mcg T3 and 80mcg Clen. Again this was my plan before adding Slin to my cycle

thanks.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

methos said:


> Cool cheers for that advice again mate. I'll just save money and get myself a dextrose drink then. Just a bit worried about hypos. Mrs is type 1 and I've seen some of her hypos, far worse than any roid rage lol!


keep dextrose based drink handy (mix your own is fine) during your workout if taking 'slin pre-training. I don't like 'slin pre training because you don't get the full benefits of 'slin; by taking even once in the day, hours before training, you will be full enought. I think post workout is best (along with 2x other shots/day).



LOCUST said:


> Sorry if I've missed it but is this 3 times a day protocol every day or just training days?





JohnR said:


> Thanks again Ausbuilt So just to recap the ideal protocol for using a combination of GH & Slin would be Get up in morning take your Slin 15mins later eat brekfast 30 mins after slin take your half daily dose of GH Lunchtime take 2nd shot of slin 15mins later eat lunch PWO final shot of slin 15 mins later PWO shake 30mins after slin 2nd dose of GH hour later solid meal Is there anything Ive got wrong or missed out ? Sorry to repeat myself but I need everything in laymans term


basically right, but I would ALWAYS have a shake with every shot (10-15mins after the shot) with 50-60g whey, and 5g HIGH GI carbs per iu even if you're having a solid meal at the same time (to make up the remaining 5g carbs per iu). If no solid meal then 5g dextrose/5g maltodextrin (or vitargo) per iu in the shake.

The advantages of the shake is faster digested protein and carbs when you get the first peak 'slin... so you have nutrients ready to go into the muscle straight away.



big silver back said:


> Sorry to keep on with the questions but i take my gh soon as i wake and before fasted cardio, how would i do the slin? i cant take it 20 mins before the gh because i dont want to eat? And like i said i only want to take it last few weeks of my prep because i found it really hard to keep full looking last year, do you think that would be ok or do you think it would be better right though my prep? Sorry for being a pain and thanks for the advice.


taking 'slin in the morning and fasted cardio are two different goals- one is to increase burning of FFAs (hence even better with GH) one is to build mass.

If you really want to do fasted cardio in the morn, then do your GH on waking as you already do, then do fasted cardio, then (ideally) you shouldn't eat for at least an hour after the cardio (to keep burning FFAs) you could then do a shot of 'slin, then do the next two later in the day (as long as ideally 3 hours between shots for novorapid/humalog).

perhaps a better way is to do an alternate day protocol-one day do your fasted cardio in the morning, and don't eat after (ideal for fat loss); alternate day, do slin/gh in the morning etc with no fasted cardio.

I do an EOD protocol- i only use the 'slin EOD it works well.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> haha, easy tiger!
> 
> definately wont be going above the 30iu mark this time round, still a huge learning curve at the moment.
> 
> ...


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

200mcg T4, split the dose am & mid afternoon? Or consume all at once?

thanks


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

Ausbuilt deserves some sort of medal for all the advice and information he's giving out here! I'm sure i'm not the only person who's reading the thread and learning a fk load.

Cheers mate.


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

taking 'slin in the morning and fasted cardio are two different goals- one is to increase burning of FFAs (hence even better with GH) one is to build mass.

If you really want to do fasted cardio in the morn, then do your GH on waking as you already do, then do fasted cardio, then (ideally) you shouldn't eat for at least an hour after the cardio (to keep burning FFAs) you could then do a shot of 'slin, then do the next two later in the day (as long as ideally 3 hours between shots for novorapid/humalog).

perhaps a better way is to do an alternate day protocol-one day do your fasted cardio in the morning, and don't eat after (ideal for fat loss); alternate day, do slin/gh in the morning etc with no fasted cardio.

I do an EOD protocol- i only use the 'slin EOD it works well.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Ausbuilt deserves some sort of medal for all the advice and information he's giving out here! I'm sure i'm not the only person who's reading the thread and learning a fk load.
> 
> Cheers mate.


agreed, top bloke!


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

MrMike said:


> Ausbuilt deserves some sort of medal for all the advice and information he's giving out here! I'm sure i'm not the only person who's reading the thread and learning a fk load.
> 
> Cheers mate.


Agreed, top man!


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## methos (Dec 23, 2008)

^^ same. Top bloke!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

chilisi said:


> T3 and Clen would fight any fat gain that may occur. I ran it with DNP and it worked very well.


I also ran it last time with DNP, and found it to be the ideal combo for muscle gain/fat loss concurrently- never had results as good for both goals concurrently. However, DNP does have its drawbacks, so T3 (or T4) + clen is a good alternative.



chilisi said:


> Aus- Why would you choose T4 over T3 when running GH?


I don't agree with Anthony Roberts often, but in this case, what I read made a lot of sense (actually I'm keen on Joshua's input on this):

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/thyroid-and-growth-hormone.htm



Clubber Lang said:


> 200mcg T4, split the dose am & mid afternoon? Or consume all at once?


Whether its T3 or T4, its ALWAYs all at once, and ALWAYS on an empty stomach- preferably 20-30mins with no food after for maximum activity. So get up, take T3/T4/Clen, 15mins later 'slin shot, 15mins later shake, then HGH shot.. in an ideal world... remember 2days on T3(T4)+Clen, then 2days on ECA, then repeat..



MrMike said:


> Ausbuilt deserves some sort of medal for all the advice and information he's giving out here! I'm sure i'm not the only person who's reading the thread and learning a fk load.
> 
> Cheers mate.


Thanks for the nice comments (as well as to the other viewers on this thread). None of the ideas are mine, its all based on stuff I've read both in uni text books as well as some BB books; difference is I've emulated my hero (Dan Duchaine) and TRIED MOST of it! LOL so I'm mostly sharing my experiences and those of people I've trained over the years... input from members like chilsi and clubber (and others, such as those posting questions here) who are open to trying new things helps keep these discussion going so that EVERYONE learns, including me.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

LOCUST said:


> Sorry if I've missed it but is this 3 times a day protocol every day or just training days?


depends. You could do it on training days- if you train 3+ days a week. But I like an EOD protocol. Either will work- you want to spend most of the week "on" for the month. You could be "on" every day, but i think the last 2weeks of the month the results lean more towards fat, or, you need to increase the dose slightly- i think insulin resistance builds up fast- hence why i like EOD.



big silver back said:


> And like i said i only want to take it last few weeks of my prep because i found it really hard to keep full looking last year, do you think that would be ok or do you think it would be better right though my prep?


Sorry I didn't address this well enough. Have PM'd you- its towards the end, (possible in middle too). Its a bit complex, and depends on your overall prep approach- this is very individual, so I've pm'd you.


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## careca (Oct 11, 2008)

hi my friend i from portugal sorry for my ingles its a pleaseur have people like you here in the forum who talk about the things with no problem

i have every thing here to make a cycle dnp slin ( humalog levemir and humalin r ) t3 and t4 and gh i go make 4ui i have experience with every products can you help me make my cycle

thanks and see you later


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## JohnR (May 29, 2008)

Whether its T3 or T4, its ALWAYs all at once, and ALWAYS on an empty stomach- preferably 20-30mins with no food after for maximum activity. So get up, take T3/T4/Clen, 15mins later 'slin shot, 15mins later shake, then HGH shot.. in an ideal world... remember 2days on T3(T4)+Clen, then 2days on ECA

Would you only take T4 on the days you were using slin or doesnt it matter ?


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry I didn't address this well enough. Have PM'd you- its towards the end, (possible in middle too). Its a bit complex, and depends on your overall prep approach- this is very individual, so I've pm'd you.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

LOCUST said:


> Sorry if I've missed it but is this 3 times a day protocol every day or just training days?


your choice. I prefer 'slin EOD, but ED is fine (would only do ED for 4 weeks, then take metformin for 4 weeks). Take the T3(t4) 2 days on 2 days off during the entire 'slin cycle, regardless of whether you're taking 'slin that day or not.

you can do it training days only, depending on how often you train- the idea is to spend about the same time on/off- which is why i like the EOD protocol- you will be in an anabolic state even if not training that day- don't forget the body grows when you don't train...



careca said:


> hi my friend i from portugal sorry for my ingles its a pleaseur have people like you here in the forum who talk about the things with no problem
> 
> i have every thing here to make a cycle dnp slin ( humalog levemir and humalin r ) t3 and t4 and gh i go make 4ui i have experience with every products can you help me make my cycle
> 
> thanks and see you later


day 1: 4-6mg/kg DNP + 7-10iu 'slin (3x day); 2iu HGH 2x day (30mins after 'slin shot). T4 100-200mcg (depending on how big you are) in the morning.

day 2: HGH 2iu 2x day; T4 in the morning

day 3: 4-6mg/kg DNP + 7-10iu 'slin (3x day); 2iu HGH 2x day (30mins after 'slin shot)

day 4: HGH 2iu 2x day

Day 5: repeat day 1

day 6: repeat day 2

day 7: repeat day 3

day 8: repeat day 4

etc.

if you are doing 'slin 3x day- make sure you use HUMALOG or, at worst Humalin R; short acting is better. IF you must use levimir- 30iu ONCE per day- but really, I wouldn't bother- if you don't have humalog or humalin R- wait until you do. Levimir/lantus really makes fat gain easier, and is not as beneficial as the multiple short acting injections.



JohnR said:


> Whether its T3 or T4, its ALWAYs all at once, and ALWAYS on an empty stomach- preferably 20-30mins with no food after for maximum activity. So get up, take T3/T4/Clen, 15mins later 'slin shot, 15mins later shake, then HGH shot.. in an ideal world... remember 2days on T3(T4)+Clen, then 2days on ECA
> 
> Would you only take T4 on the days you were using slin or doesnt it matter ?


see my answer above- just take it 2days on, 2 days off- some of the days will co-incide with slin use.


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## careca (Oct 11, 2008)

thanks my friend look iff i train like a exemple push pull and legs de day off dnp and slin dont co-incide wath you thing about do cardio in the days that we dont have dnp and slin in the body and make the breakfast with protein and fat to the max effect off gh and cardio

thanks and see you later


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## LOCUST (May 4, 2006)

Thanks for the info. This thread is getting huge.

A couple of things to throw in there.

Why do u take the t4/t3 2 days on/off I may have missed it.

Also. How about igf DES pre workout and slin after. As I got some here and been dying to use it.


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