# Better to slim down first then do weights?



## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

Hi all,

I've been lurking these forums for a while now as it's a great community, most of you seem helpful and friendly haha!

What I wanted to know is it better to lose fat before building muscle?

A bit of background on myself:

I'm 24, currently 200lbs, I was at 216lbs at the beginning of the year, 5ft 8". Now I have been going to the gym doing weight routines along with a little cardio (usually 15 minutes each session, but nothing too intense).

Now I have obviously lost weight, and I have definitely gotten stronger and gained muscle, but I've still got a lot of fat around my chest and stomach.

I will say that I do eat relatively clean a lot of the time but I am far to lax on my diet at times, my own fault I know. It's just too easy to give in or it's just too convenient.

What I really need to know is is it worth me kind of starting afresh, and basically just do cardio (even Insanity?) 4/5 times a week for a few months and leave the weights until I have shifted a lot more of this fat.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Depends on how you feel really, i tried my best to recomp when dieting, in other words gain some muscle whilst losing fat and it works well when done right.

But it's a long slow process, normally i tend to diet down until i start to feel too small or weak, then i kick back into bulking for a bit.

You'll lose it, just takes time.


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

Dazzza said:


> Depends on how you feel really, i tried my best to recomp when dieting, in other words gain some muscle whilst losing fat and it works well when done right.
> 
> But it's a long slow process, normally i tend to diet down until i start to feel too small or weak, then i kick back into bulking for a bit.
> 
> You'll lose it, just takes time.


How did you do that diet wise, never understood how to do a recomp?


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## JonnyBoy81 (Jun 26, 2013)

Talaria said:


> How did you do that diet wise, never understood how to do a recomp?


a lot of dedication and strict diet.

you need to be in a deficit but not so much that your body 'thinks' its starving.

ive not done it but looked into it , as wanted to try this very soon!

waiting to see what Dazza says.....


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Talaria said:


> How did you do that diet wise, never understood how to do a recomp?


For me it was a case of trial and error.

I diet 6 days pw, say around 1800-2000kcals then for one day i'll refeed, so it keeps the metabolism going and helps keep my sanity.

That and using the right supps help, it's why i love pes alphamine, as besides fat burning it preserves muscle and other things.

We aren't talking big numbers, but enough that it keeps me happy.

It's awesome getting your bf down, and you notice things appearing, like how i've got two cracking veins running up my abs/obiliques.

Still way to go, but certainly a good incentive to keep on going.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

if ur a fat c**t i`d say yes


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

best to do both imo.

start really light, take your time and use the time to learn spot on technique with the weights so that when you start pushing it your form is spot on,.


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

Dazzza said:


> For me it was a case if trial and error.
> 
> I diet 6 days pw, say around 1800-2000kcals then for one day i'll refeed, so it keeps the metabolism going and helps keep my sanity.
> 
> ...


Is that just below maintenance?


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

if you've still got a lot of fat then id strip that off 1st, if you bulk now you wont visually see the reward much other than looking larger, definition and shape wont improve if your covered in fat. get to 14% or less and you ready to bulk.


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Talaria said:


> Is that just below maintenance?


For me no, my bmr seems to be around 2800kcals give or take, and i am running a few bits which are known to lose fat and gain a bit of muscle.

Like i said for me it was trial and error, generally most diets start around 500kcals below bmr, but my metabolism being slow means i can get away with cutting harder and still maintain lbm.

Downside being i pack on fat fast if im not careful at bulking.

After my cycle i dropped to 196lbs, four weeks later i hit 200lb, this was with me dieting in pct, usually a big no no.


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

I think the thing that is getting to me at the moment is the lack of visual reward. I mean, I can see I've lost fat but I'm still fat. I've taken measurements and I've dropped 2" off my waist and a the same off my chest and naval, but like I said, it's more a case of I would like to see an increased level of weight loss.

So if I lost another stone and a half or something, purely from diet and cardio then focus on weights again after that...?


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## jme_swaz (Aug 24, 2013)

Dazzza said:


> For me it was a case of trial and error.
> 
> I diet 6 days pw, say around 1800-2000kcals then for one day i'll refeed, so it keeps the metabolism going and helps keep my sanity.
> 
> ...


Thats if your metabolism uses 1800-2000 calories, apparently I use 1800 to maintain weight.

You can use weight training to lose weight, it can be effective if you do your research.

I'd say find your heart rate zones so you can get your cardio within the zone, mix that with push pull legs split and a 250-500 calorie deficit you should be able to cut down slowly.


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## jme_swaz (Aug 24, 2013)

Shady Pioneer said:


> I think the thing that is getting to me at the moment is the lack of visual reward. I mean, I can see I've lost fat but I'm still fat. I've taken measurements and I've dropped 2" off my waist and a the same off my chest and naval, but like I said, it's more a case of I would like to see an increased level of weight loss.
> 
> So if I lost another stone and a half or something, purely from diet and cardio then focus on weights again after that...?


Whats your height weight measurements and BF% mate?


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## Glais (Aug 22, 2013)

rome wasn't built in a day mate, keep progressing!


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

jme_swaz said:


> Thats if your metabolism uses 1800-2000 calories, apparently I use 1800 to maintain weight.
> 
> You can use weight training to lose weight, it can be effective if you do your research.
> 
> I'd say find your heart rate zones so you can get your cardio within the zone, mix that with push pull legs split and a 250-500 calorie deficit you should be able to cut down slowly.


Trust me, i've been at this for three years solid, i have it pretty much nailed down so i'll carry on doing what i've always done.

Especially given the fact on my last cut i dropped over 80lbs in 13 months.

As for hrm i don't need one, train that often i know whether im in the zone or not, plus i tend to play that part by ear depending on how knackered i am.

Thanks for your suggestions, but i'll swing it a miss :wink:


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## jme_swaz (Aug 24, 2013)

Dazzza said:


> Trust me, i've been at this for three years solid, i have it pretty much nailed down so i'll carry on doing what i've always done.
> 
> Especially given the fact on my last cut i dropped over 80lbs in 13 months.
> 
> ...


Everyones different man 

Some things work for people, some don't!


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## MrLulz (Mar 20, 2012)

stone14 said:


> if you've still got a lot of fat then id strip that off 1st, if you bulk now you wont visually see the reward much other than looking larger, definition and shape wont improve if your covered in fat. get to 14% or less and you ready to bulk.


I agree with this fella. You'll get more mental reward - and recognition from others - from dropping weight month on month than you will your lifts going up.

If I had my time over again I'd have got a lean base before doing weights.


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

jme_swaz said:


> Whats your height weight measurements and BF% mate?


Height = 5' 8"

Weight = 200lbs

BF = 23%

Measurements =

Arms - 13"

Chest (man boobs) - 43.5"

Naval = 41"

Hips = 38"

Legs = 24"


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

MrLulz said:


> I agree with this fella. You'll get more mental reward - and recognition from others - from dropping weight month on month than you will your lifts going up.
> 
> If I had my time over again I'd have got a lean base before doing weights.


See this is what I'm thinking. So if I strip a lot of the fat off rather than focusing on weight training I should get to that base quicker.

Essentially I just want to get a much better physique in the most efficient way possible.


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## MiXiN (Mar 25, 2013)

eezy1 said:


> if ur a fat c**t i`d say yes


I LIKE this. Ha ha


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

MiXiN said:


> I LIKE this. Ha ha


To be fair, I did lol when I read it too.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Theres nothing to say u shouldnt do weights while stripping fat, in fact it will help you, you will burn calories lifting weights, in fact even in a deficit (unless its a massive deficit) as a newbie your body will adapt and take a better shape while losing the fat. Newbie gainz brah... lol

You will get stronger, slightly bigger and most definitely leaner while dieting if you incorporate weights into your regime if you do it sensibly.


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

Thinking what I might do for a couple months is IF, along with 3/4 core exercises each session and 30 - 45 mins of cardio a day. See how that goes.

IF to help strip fat a bit quicker.

Core exercises to retain some strength and muscle.

Cardio to further strip the fat and b a bit healthier.


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## Talaria (Jun 30, 2011)

Your 5.8 at 14+ stone 41" waist and 23% bf.










Lose the weight first.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Talaria said:


> Your 5.8 at 14+ stone 41" waist and 23% bf.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lifting weights will help with that! Why do ppl recommend not to lift weights ?


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

I was always under the impression that you burn calories doing weights as well as cardio. Surely some simple compound exercises would be beneficial to me to retain more core muscle built over the last 8 months?

Could break it down like this:

30 mins core exercises + 30 mins cardio 3/4x a week

OR

60 mins cardio 3/4 a week

The former would surely yield better results?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

What's all this 'core exercises' ? Lol do u mean core as in staple exercises or exercises for your core?

If so, why all the core and nothing else? Genuinely interested?

You do realise you can't spot remove fat or 'tone' your core??


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> Lifting weights will help with that! Why do ppl recommend not to lift weights ?


Because they're daft!

I agree with everything you've said in this thread mate


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> What's all this 'core exercises' ? Lol do u mean core as in staple exercises or exercises for your core?
> 
> If so, why all the core and nothing else? Genuinely interested?
> 
> You do realise you can't spot remove fat or 'tone' your core??


Staple exercises is what I meant bud. Sorry. Things like Deadlifts, shoulder press etc.

I didn't mean anything about sorting out more "core". lol! I know fat is lost depending on wherever your body decides.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Yeah defo mate 3 x a week weights even if its light and just practicing form for now and 3x a week cardio if u like and can keep it up.

Once u start adding weight to the bar u can burn some serious cals IMO.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Breda said:


> Because they're daft!
> 
> I agree with everything you've said in this thread mate


I've got 2 mates who are doing the same, dieting like 7 stone women with a 'plan' to lift weights when they are thin enough.

Both look like sh1t IMO lol


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> Yeah defo mate 3 x a week weights even if its light and just practicing form for now and 3x a week cardio if u like and can keep it up.
> 
> Once u start adding weight to the bar u can burn some serious cals IMO.


TRUE^

I noticed a significant amount of fat loss once i started doing weights.

I would run - weight would come of slowly but surely.

Then i started weights 4 times a week + HIIT cardio after every gym sessions = weight fell off me!!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

SCOOT123 said:


> TRUE^
> 
> I noticed a significant amount of fat loss once i started doing weights.
> 
> ...


I popped I'm ur journal earlier, I see ur taking piemans advice, ur in good hands lol


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> I popped I'm ur journal earlier, I see ur taking piemans advice, ur in good hands lol


Haha yeah : ) hopefully lool! nah hes v helpful!


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

Unless you have some very specific health issue that prevents weight training you should ALWAYS perform weight training in some capacity.

That doesn't mean heavy lifting it can just be light weight lifting.

The benefits of even light weight lifting will always be there.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

everything is light weight baby!! :laugh:


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

As already said, anyone who says you shouldn't lift weights clearly does not know what the fvck they are talking about.


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## Shady Pioneer (Feb 28, 2013)

I kind of came to the conclusion I should lift something from what I've read and been told, just nice to have a form of confirmation.

Thanks for all the input though guys (even the sarcy bastards). All helps.

I'm going to start IF as of tonight and see how I get on. I'm currently doing 5 sets of 5 reps on fairly heavy weights (at least for me), which seems to be going ok, but can't help but think maybe I should be doing lighter weights and higher reps?


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