# People dl/squat/bench big amounts but still have average physiques



## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

The general consensus these days seems to be that full body workouts consisting of the main compounds and maybe a small bit of accessory work are the way to go especially for beginners or intermediates.

However....

If compounds are so effective as movements for putting on size (allegedly), why are there plenty of people who can deadlift and squat high amounts of weight yet still don't even look like they go to the gym with a t-shirt on in every day life?

Not talking about anyone on this forum (you are all hench), but notable examples on youtube and people I've even seen at my gym...


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> The general consensus these days seems to be that full body workouts consisting of the main compounds and maybe a small bit of accessory work are the way to go especially for beginners or intermediates.However.... If compounds are so effective as movements for putting on size (allegedly), why are there plenty of people who can deadlift and squat high amounts of weight yet still don't even look like they go to the gym with a t-shirt on in every day life? Not talking about anyone on this forum (you are all hench), but notable examples on youtube and people I've even seen at my gym...


 There are other factors such as rep range, progressive overload, time under tension and nutrition when it comes to bodybuilding too.I am a prime example, most I have DL'd is 240kg. Any photos I have posted in past logs will show my legs to be pretty pathetic.If you look at u80kg strongmen not particularly big but v strong. This is also down to strength being related to neurological adaptation not just muscle size


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

genetics , it comes down to who has more of which type of muscle fibers .

more people train nowadays so you`ll see more average lifters lifting heavy poundage due to the fiber split .


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Diet could play a part. I've got stronger while being in a kcal deficit. A lot of guys think they eat a lot, but in reality they don't eat near enough the amount needed to pack on good size.


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## Buzzz_ (Jan 13, 2013)

Mey said:


> Diet could play a part. I've got stronger while being in a kcal *deficit.* A lot of guys think they eat a lot, but in reality they don't eat near enough the amount needed to pack on good size.


Surplus* ?


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

I haven't seen anybody who is particularly small who can BP 3 plates, SQ 5 plates and DL 6 plates for instance.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Buzzz_ said:


> Surplus* ?


No deficit. I'm talking about when I first started lifting. I was trying to get leaner as we all wanted the abs, so was eating a lot less than needed but for the first year kept getting stronger. I would never be able to get strong now eating in a deficit.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Huntingground said:


> I haven't seen anybody who is particularly small who can BP 3 plates, SQ 5 plates and DL 6 plates for instance.


no mirrors where you train then :whistling:


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

ewen said:


> no mirrors where you train then :whistling:


Just on way to 1RM to DL and that has no mirrors so you are right


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## Gridlock1436114498 (Nov 11, 2004)

Sometimes it had to do with body fat. I see a lot of strength guys carrying a layer of fat that hides muscular development.

Also seen people that appear to get bigger as they drop body fat by a sort of optical illusion that the increased definition gives them


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Rep range will play a big part as well.


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

There's a host of reason...most tied to diet I suspect. ...

I know a climber who can comfortably DL 190kg...probably about 240 for his 1RM.....he weighs 12 stone at six foot. He can do one finger pull ups with ease as well as flag on a finger board (two fingers of each hand in holes...pulls up and flags so he's horizontal under the board). He does one arm pull ups like most people do their first set of double arm....but with a weight in the other hand and a weight vest on. You'd never think it to look at him though.He doesn't even have a typical climbers physique (kind of like a slightly skinnier gymnast). Just looks like an average bloke....


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## tikkajohn (Dec 6, 2012)

Leverages will also play a part


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Have a read of this its a very good article and goes into quite a bit of detail:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hale6.htm

For those that cant be ar$ed here is the general conclusion:

*In general, bodybuilders are more muscular than powerlifters, but powerlifters are stronger. How does training with weights that are 90% of 1RM develop strength and power, but do very little for hypertrophy? Studies have shown an intense set of 5 reps involves more fibers than an intense set of 1rep. Research has shown that using loads in the 90% range causes failure to occur before a growth stimulus has been sent to the cells. Therefore other factors besides muscle fiber fatigue result in termination of the set. The muscle simply does not have sufficient time under tension to stimulate the growth process. High rep training produces high levels of phosphate and hydrogen ions, which enhance the growth process. Research has shown heavy lifting enhances neural efficiency (improved motor recruitment, and firing rates), which enhances strength, but does not necessarily result in muscular growth. *

*
*

*
With this information you can see why the strength, and size levels are different between bodybuilders and powerlifters. There are powerlifters that possess muscularity comparable to bodybuilders. There are also bodybuilders who have equal or greater strength than powerlifters. Do not misinterpret this article to mean there is no relationship between strength and size. *

*
*

*
If you gain 30lbs. of lean tissue you will probably become stronger. The basic idea presented in this article is there is a relationship between size and strength, but strength increases can occur due to other reasons. Just as size increase can occur with a non-linear strength increase.*

*
*


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Right, so then training to failure is not optimal?

I'm really confused about this. I am only training for aesthetic purposes really... Should I only be going for 10-12 reps? If so I'll have to significantly lower the weight and it's low enough as it is! (Only 18kg on shoulder press for example)


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

you can mix strength and hypertrophy training


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> Right, *so then training to failure is not optimal?*
> 
> I'm really confused about this. I am only training for aesthetic purposes really... Should I only be going for 10-12 reps? If so I'll have to significantly lower the weight and it's low enough as it is! (Only 18kg on shoulder press for example)


Were did you see that?


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

2004mark said:


> Were did you see that?


*"Research has shown that using loads in the 90% range causes failure to occur before a growth stimulus has been sent to the cells"*


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> *"Research has shown that using loads in the 90% range causes failure to occur before a growth stimulus has been sent to the cells"*


That's not saying don't train to failure though


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Sway12 said:


> The general consensus these days seems to be that full body workouts consisting of the main compounds and maybe a small bit of accessory work are the way to go especially for beginners or intermediates.
> 
> However....
> 
> ...


Because strength in some ways has more to do with efficient cns recruitment of muscle fibres than a muscles size, and the type of training that best develops cns efficiency (progressive overload with low rep, heavy loading) won't maximise hypertrophy without additional regular progression with lighter loads and higher reps.

Many people do things like 5x5 exclusively and so don't maximise hypertrophic adaptations.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Why not? Failure = growth stimulus not sent to the muscle no?


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> Why not? Failure = growth stimulus not sent to the muscle no?


 No, 90% load = failure occuring before growth stimulus sent as opposed to >90% loads = failure occuring after growth stimulus occurs


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

So I need to lower the load?


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## kuju (Sep 15, 2010)

Sway12 said:


> So I need to lower the load?


It's not saying that failure is a bad thing per se; it's saying that using a high load (ie at or very near your 1RM) causes teh muscle to fail before the growth stimulus has been sent. However - what..I assume..is happening there is your nervous system gives up before the muscle does. Presumably as a defence to prevent injury. But training to failure with high(er) reps - and by extension..a lower weight load - is the muscle itself giving up. Does that make sense?

Personally - I use periodisation - so i'll do 3-4 weeks of something (ie strength) have a week of lower levels stuf...maybe do more mobility or metabolic conditioning or just climb more..somethign different for a week - and then move on to something else for 3-4 weeks like power or hypertrophy. Could be worth giving a go?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Sway12 said:


> So I need to lower the load?


Only if you're doing 1 or 2 reps per set.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Yes kuju I would definitely say its my nervous system that gives up first and I feel more tired in that sense than my actual muscles... If that makes sense

Could this mean that I'm working with too much weight? Barely feel recovered sometimes before I'm in the gym again


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Bump for this again. Everyone at the gym tonight was lifting ****ing light weights but were still bigger than me. Guy next to me was struggling to deadlift 70kg but he looked massive, then theres me who still looks weak as **** easily DL'ing 110 for reps. I know its not much but it just doesnt seem fair that I'm putting in the effort with every workout and getting **** results while these phaggots are barely lifting anything and look big ..


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Sway12 said:


> Bump for this again. Everyone at the gym tonight was lifting ****ing light weights but were still bigger than me. Guy next to me was struggling to deadlift 70kg but he looked massive, then theres me who still looks weak as **** easily DL'ing 110 for reps. I know its not much but it just doesnt seem fair that I'm putting in the effort with every workout and getting **** results while these phaggots are barely lifting anything and look big ..


Do your squats/deads and bench for low reps and get strong. Do assistance compounds for medium reps, and isolations for high reps and get big.


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## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

Mingster said:


> Do your squats/deads and bench for low reps and get strong. Do assistance compounds for medium reps, and isolations for high reps and get big.


Without sounding stupid, what would you class as an assistance compound movement?


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Sway12 said:


> Bump for this again. Everyone at the gym tonight was lifting ****ing light weights but were still bigger than me. Guy next to me was struggling to deadlift 70kg but he looked massive, then theres me who still looks weak as **** easily DL'ing 110 for reps. I know its not much but it just doesnt seem fair that I'm putting in the effort with every workout and getting **** results while these phaggots are barely lifting anything and look big ..


Get your deadlift up to 200kg and come back here and tell me you're still small.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

Mey said:


> Get your deadlift up to 200kg and come back here and tell me you're still small.







that guy look big to you?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

ki3rz said:


> Without sounding stupid, what would you class as an assistance compound movement?


Multi-joint movements such as SLDL, OHP, push press, incline press, dips, rows etc.

Isolations would be tricep pushdowns, curls, lateral raises etc.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Sway12 said:


> that guy look big to you?


OK, where are your vids??

I sq/bp/dl decent amounts.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Sway12 said:


> that guy look big to you?


Says the video won't load in my country... Though I'm in the uk!?

If you're deadlifting 110kg now. By the time you're deadlifting 200kg I assure you, you will be a lot bigger.


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## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

I dl 270, still small


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I think it's the other way round, I see more guys with good physiques pushing smaller numbers.

Makes me think how they got so fvcking big!


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Chelsea said:


> With this information you can see why the strength, and size levels are different between bodybuilders and powerlifters. There are powerlifters that possess muscularity comparable to bodybuilders. There are also bodybuilders who have equal or greater strength than powerlifters. Do not misinterpret this article to mean there is no relationship between strength and size.


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## scott08 (Feb 14, 2014)

alot of it is genetics. for instance, i have put two of my mates on near identical programs, and theyve gained similar amounts of strength (started around the same point), yet one just looks more muscular than the other and has gained more weight.

in general though, you wont see people lifting heavy weight that are small. you may see smaller guys deadlifting big weights for their bw, but will likely have a weak bench and squat. this is likely due to those people just having better neural adaptations to weightlifting, their leverages (specifically for the deadlift), and the fact that the deadlift heavily works your extensors and gluts/ hamstrings, which wont make you look big in clothes if everything else is small. a good example is maxx chewning on youtube, not sure on the exact numbers but hes a skinny guy deadlifting ~240kg, but can only squat like 170 and bench 100 (not bad numbers but bad in comparison).

also you have to think that just because someone doesnt gain loads of muscle on a powerlifting routine, does it mean they would of gained alot more on a bodybuilding routine?

they may have gained even less muscle if they were on a typical bodybuilding routine for the same amount of time, and would likely be weaker.


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## DarthMaulscle (Dec 26, 2012)

Strength =/= aesthetics.

2 Completely different styles of training, leading to completely different desired results.


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

DarthMaulscle said:


> Strength =/= aesthetics.
> 
> 2 Completely different styles of training, leading to completely different desired results.


It's funny because strength = size makes perfect sense, yet there is this constant counter-argument. Don't know what to believe.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Sway12 said:


> It's funny because strength = size makes perfect sense, yet there is this constant counter-argument. Don't know what to believe.


Strength and size do increase together but there are other ways for strength to increase rather than just down to muscle size. It's not something you need worry about.

I think a lot of it is genetics and some people are just strong for there size.

When I spent a good time focusing on increasing my bench press I was doing 3 sets of 5 reps and this added size to my triceps and chest.

Just focus on improving your lifts and maybe do higher reps if you are more concerned with muscle growth.


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## DarthMaulscle (Dec 26, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy


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## Sway12 (Oct 29, 2013)

So there is merit to lighter weight and higher reps


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

One of the greatest powerlifters around. Awesome power and strength = perfect combo.


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

in the end its down to your diet and genetics. if you train a muscle in the gym it will adapt to the situation and gain strength even if it has barely the nutrition to recover properly, muscle fiber types and all. could be genetically strong. or it could be that the guys you watch have low bf and more muscle mass than you think.

im not the biggest, but im at a low BF, so a guy 3 stone heavier and higher body fat might actually not have the same muscle mass even though he looks dominating over me, plus the added weight of himself to lift as well.


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## Info Junkie (Nov 22, 2013)

scott08 said:


> alot of it is genetics. for instance, i have put two of my mates on near identical programs, and theyve gained similar amounts of strength (started around the same point), yet one just looks more muscular than the other and has gained more weight.
> 
> in general though, you wont see people lifting heavy weight that are small. you may see smaller guys deadlifting big weights for their bw, but will likely have a weak bench and squat. this is likely due to those people just having better neural adaptations to weightlifting, their leverages (specifically for the deadlift), and the fact that the deadlift heavily works your extensors and gluts/ hamstrings, which wont make you look big in clothes if everything else is small. a good example is maxx chewning on youtube, not sure on the exact numbers but hes a skinny guy deadlifting ~240kg, but can only squat like 170 and bench 100 (not bad numbers but bad in comparison).
> 
> ...


believe it or not my numbers are the same on all compounds as this maxx xhewning you have mentioned , i look small in clothes narrow shoulders and chest but muscularity is good , my friends look massive compare to me in hoodys for examples but are weak and little actually muscle mass


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Huntingground said:


> View attachment 147813
> 
> 
> One of the greatest powerlifters around. Awesome power and strength = perfect combo.


Does he even lift????


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

G-man99 said:


> Does he even lift????







375KG Squat

235KG Bench

375KG Sumo DL (I think!!)

Perfect combination of power and aesthetics.....


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Sway12 said:


> It's funny because strength = size makes perfect sense, yet there is this constant counter-argument. Don't know what to believe.


I don't know a single person that can lift big numbers that isn't a big guy.

Of course there's exceptions to every rule but strength more often than not relates directly to size.


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## kadafi39 (Apr 9, 2013)

I agree with the OP to some extent, i have often seen people pushing decent weight and they look much skinnier and less muscular than me for example, a really good example is candito, hes been training for like 12 years, can squat 250kg, deadlift more and bench like 2.5 to 3 plates, yet if you saw him walking down the street you wouldnt look twice, some kid that does a few chin ups and press ups is what you would think! Yet hes a beast for his bw... Think it does just come down to genetics, and im sooo thankful i have good genes for muscular size, i put muscle on relatively easy, still bust my ass but get results too...


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Smitch said:


> I don't know a single person that can lift big numbers that isn't a big guy.
> 
> Of course there's exceptions to every rule but strength more often than not relates directly to size.


^^ This

People should stop searching for exceptions on youtube to prove a point. Of course there are small guys who lift big weights. I could find a video of a chinese girl in the 60kg weight class squatting 170kg - does that help us in the thread? no. Because training to be strong within a certain weight class is a very specific type of high frequency training - e.g. olympic lifters squatting 7 days a week - designed to minimise hypertrophy and maximise neuromuscular efficiency.

If you build decent strength in the squat, bench and deadlift and eat well, you will be very muscular. If you are able to get low bodyfat as well, then you will also look very good.

Work hard and get to these numbers, with low body fat and you will look great, guaranteed:

Bench 130kg

Squat 180kg

Deadlift 220kg


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

I think I'm a prime example to be honest, of a skinny guy who is deceivingly strong. (That's strong for my size, not in comparison to you guys)

I can bench more (about 25KG more for sets) than a friend who has a whole 6 stone weight advantage over me.

However, he can deadlift about the same more than me.

But at the same time, I have a friend who is slightly shorten than me who has a Max bench of 145KG


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## aad123 (Dec 7, 2011)

In a nut shell if you want to build muscle and are not too worried about strength gains then trainin the 10 to 20 rep range. If you are only interested in strength gains them train in the 1 to 5 rep range.


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