# Volume Training vs High Intensity



## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

*High Intensity (Mike Mentzer style) or Volume Training (like Arny)*​
High Intensity 6775.28%Volume Training2224.72%


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## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

Hey just wondering what every ones prefered style of training is..I personally prefer high intensity


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## leonface (May 10, 2009)

I like to cycle the two, but prefer high intensity.


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

Intensity all the way!


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## Jungle (Mar 9, 2009)

I've never really tried HIT training, although I keep meaning to. I've been training for 2 years and I've cycled between, volume, 5x5 and GVT


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

In terms of which I enjoy the most I like em both, in terms of which I grow better on higher intensity, very low volume but fairly frequent sessions.

Both options work though if done properly - the worst thing you can do is something that's half and half and nothing in particular.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

High intensity, I dont like to hang out in the gym too much, it cuts into my beer drinking. :lol:

I only spend about 20 to 25 minutes in the gym, unless I am doing cardio too.

Although I do volume on chest as I have an injury to the shoulder and intensity just makes it worse.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Something about half-way in between both of them, with scheduled cycles, ramping up of weights, planned peaking and deloading. But I am very flexible in my thinking.... I think anybody who sticks to one methodology, unless they are constantly progressing, is doing themselves short.


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

^same here, i like high intensity but with just a tad more volume than what is usually prescribed, but you always have to deload anyhow so may as well back off intensity, up the volume a little and cruise for a few weeks.


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## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

Yeh I usually go high intensity for 6 weeks then I lighten the load for 2 weeks..not sure if that is right but it works for me


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

big said:


> Something about half-way in between both of them, with scheduled cycles, ramping up of weights, planned peaking and deloading. But I am very flexible in my thinking.... I think anybody who sticks to one methodology, unless they are constantly progressing, is doing themselves short.


Agreed, a good periodised routine with organised phases can work wonders. Hard to organise for a beginner though. Do you find though that growth is consistent or that it comes associated with specific phases of training?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Dtlv74 said:


> Agreed, a good periodised routine with organised phases can work wonders. Hard to organise for a beginner though. Do you find though that growth is consistent or that it comes associated with specific phases of training?


I tend to find that mass gains have followed strength gains, assuming diet is right. Definitely not in a consistent or linear manner - true (i.e. lean) mass gains are harder to predict than strength gains IMO, but tend to follow a period of "getting stronger" while eating high protein and around +500 cals/day. That's not only on myself, but I have helped numerous people over the past few years - those after mass, those after strength, and those after both. It is easy to get what feels like good mass gains by doing a high level of volume and frequency, but all that is actually happening is that you are constantly "pumped". And while that looks super; it is near-impossible to continue gaining on a routine like that, unless you're exceptionally genetically gifted. Sort of looking your best "right now", but nowhere to go.

All that said, for me, I intentionally keep carbs/calories restricted now, as I'm purely interested in strength gains at the moment. As somebody on the verge of getting into "proper" (equipped) powerlifting, I've no intention of carrying around a lot of mass - in fact, that would be counter-productive, given what numbers guys my size are putting up. Additionally, PLing-aside, at this point in my life, personally I would rather be able to go for a comfortable 30 min jog with my dog, than break a hard sweat just walking up stairs. I do find that with the right strength training periodised routine, it is easy to add mass with the right calories, and pretty darn quickly too, if that's the desired outcome. A reasonable "proof" IMO is looking at a powerlifter/strongman who subsequently moves into BBing.... they generally are much fuller and thicker than those who have relied on the "constant pump" style routines with the same weights each week.

I do agree that it is a mine-field for beginners.... percentages/deloads/ramping/periods/microcycles/etc... a far cry from "just give it your all every single session". That's why I'd recommend anyone who has been banging their head against the wall with "3 sets of 10 on 4 exercises" take a look at Wendler's 5/3/1 ebook.

All IMO of course. YMMV.


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## ElfinTan (May 23, 2008)

My workouts are always intense....surely that is the point!


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

HIT at the moment but as BIG has stated very well. any1 just sticking to one routine is doing themself an injustice.


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## ryoken (Jan 8, 2009)

I like to keep it mixed tbh one week i might think im gonna go for HIT, and then the next go for volume all depends how i feel on the day really, never do the same thing more then two weeks in a row


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## 1bpk (Jun 22, 2009)

High Intensity for me

I make great gains from that


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

HIT for me at the moment. 3 15 minute sessions a week. TUL usually 10 mins plus per session. I've had an elbow injury for the last 3 months, so the slow pace and strict form dictated in HIT has been the best option for me to keep up strength, mass, and plenty more rest.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

big said:


> I tend to find that mass gains have followed strength gains, assuming diet is right. Definitely not in a consistent or linear manner - true (i.e. lean) mass gains are harder to predict than strength gains IMO, but tend to follow a period of "getting stronger" while eating high protein and around +500 cals/day. That's not only on myself, but I have helped numerous people over the past few years - those after mass, those after strength, and those after both. It is easy to get what feels like good mass gains by doing a high level of volume and frequency, but all that is actually happening is that you are constantly "pumped". And while that looks super; it is near-impossible to continue gaining on a routine like that, unless you're exceptionally genetically gifted. Sort of looking your best "right now", but nowhere to go.
> 
> All that said, for me, I intentionally keep carbs/calories restricted now, as I'm purely interested in strength gains at the moment. As somebody on the verge of getting into "proper" (equipped) powerlifting, I've no intention of carrying around a lot of mass - in fact, that would be counter-productive, given what numbers guys my size are putting up. Additionally, PLing-aside, at this point in my life, personally I would rather be able to go for a comfortable 30 min jog with my dog, than break a hard sweat just walking up stairs. I do find that with the right strength training periodised routine, it is easy to add mass with the right calories, and pretty darn quickly too, if that's the desired outcome. A reasonable "proof" IMO is looking at a powerlifter/strongman who subsequently moves into BBing.... they generally are much fuller and thicker than those who have relied on the "constant pump" style routines with the same weights each week.
> 
> ...


Good post big. I find something similar, that a period of focused heavy lifting works best for both strength and mass, but I start to burn out a little unless I also take a week off and then do a shorter period of lower intensity work for a few weeks after every 6-8 weeks of going heavy. I find that I start to pack on the mass during the week off and get my best muscular growth during this week and the next. I often change my split when coming back to the heavier lifting too.

Agree on the higher volume training size gains being less 'permanent' - a good example of the difference between sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (increase in the volume of cellular fluid but without significant strength gain) and myofibrillar hypertrophy (increases in the protein density of the muscle fibre structures themselves granting significant strength gain).

Obviously each kind of training (heavy or volume) develops both to a degree but heavy training definitely develops myofibrillar growth more than sarcoplasmic, and volume training developing more sarcoplasmic growth. When looked at that way it seems obvious that myofbrillar growth is more permanent as it's structural rather than effectively just an increase in fluid.

Personally, for other methods of periodisation, I like 'daily undulating periodised training' - or alternating heavy, medium and lighter sessions with each workout. Has been my most useful training discovery of the last eighteen months or so.

A good study stolen from a friend of mine on another forum to better explain what I'm on about -



> J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Nov 6. [Epub ahead of print]
> 
> *Comparison Between Linear and Daily Undulating Periodized Resistance Training to Increase Strength.*
> 
> ...


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

I prefer volume training, like Jay, Ronnie etc. Find my body responds better to that. Not to say it's not intense, but nothing like Dorian.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2009)

AlasTTTair said:


> I prefer volume training, like Jay, Ronnie etc. Find my body responds better to that. Not to say it's not intense, but nothing like Dorian.


 :thumbup1: I like it to be a bit of both, with volume but intense! :thumb:


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## aqs (Oct 12, 2004)

high intensity ...thats wut iv started as a beginer and gaining well uptil now


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## Bulk1 (Apr 12, 2007)

H.I at the mo.. and happy to stick with it for now


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## Squire (Oct 23, 2009)

big said:


> I tend to find that mass gains have followed strength gains, assuming diet is right. Definitely not in a consistent or linear manner - true (i.e. lean) mass gains are harder to predict than strength gains IMO, but tend to follow a period of "getting stronger" while eating high protein and around +500 cals/day. That's not only on myself, but I have helped numerous people over the past few years - those after mass, those after strength, and those after both. It is easy to get what feels like good mass gains by doing a high level of volume and frequency, but all that is actually happening is that you are constantly "pumped". And while that looks super; it is near-impossible to continue gaining on a routine like that, unless you're exceptionally genetically gifted. Sort of looking your best "right now", but nowhere to go.
> 
> All that said, for me, I intentionally keep carbs/calories restricted now, as I'm purely interested in strength gains at the moment. As somebody on the verge of getting into "proper" (equipped) powerlifting, I've no intention of carrying around a lot of mass - in fact, that would be counter-productive, given what numbers guys my size are putting up. Additionally, PLing-aside, at this point in my life, personally I would rather be able to go for a comfortable 30 min jog with my dog, than break a hard sweat just walking up stairs. I do find that with the right strength training periodised routine, it is easy to add mass with the right calories, and pretty darn quickly too, if that's the desired outcome. A reasonable "proof" IMO is looking at a powerlifter/strongman who subsequently moves into BBing.... they generally are much fuller and thicker than those who have relied on the "constant pump" style routines with the same weights each week.
> 
> ...


Very well said, good info :thumb:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Nice post Big, I mean Princess.


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## Wee G1436114539 (Oct 6, 2007)

****s sake not this again!

why is it always "Vs" ?

There is no ****ing "Vs" in it. Anyone who rigidly sticks with a fixed volume (whether it be high / low or anything else) or degree of loading (heavy / light / whatever) is a total ****ing cock end and needs to be taken round the back of the bike sheds for a good old fashioned kicking.

cheers,

G

Ps - Can we stop asking this question now? I was having a good day and now I'm all peeved.....


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

agree with big -winter good for high intensity summer lighter for reps and definition ,so spring and autumn just maintenance


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

ive done stronglifts 5x5 and then switched to a PPL 3 sets of 8-12

cant really say which had better size gains yet but i was alot stronger on 5x5!

does 5x5 count as HIT? as alot of people are saying there in and out of the gym in 15-30 mins! it took me at least 60 mins!

whats a good example of a HIT routine thats suitable for fairly new trainers? ( if HIT is suitable for the non-advanced?) im thinking to do 10-12 weeks of each type of training and see whats best for me


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## Phez (Sep 2, 2009)

Wee G if you read my original post after the poll you would see I was simply wondering what people enjoy more, at no point did I state anything about sticking to the same routine religously.

P.S Chill it's just a poll


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

kaos_nw said:


> ive done stronglifts 5x5 and then switched to a PPL 3 sets of 8-12
> 
> cant really say which had better size gains yet but i was alot stronger on 5x5!
> 
> ...


Warm up set or two and all out one set to failure.

If you do 2 exercises per body part it comes out to 2 sets (one per exercise) to failure per body part.

Maximum amount of intensity in the shortest amount of time.


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## kaos_nw (Jul 9, 2008)

cheers mate so only 1 working set, is that 1 rep or 1 set of 3-5?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

8-12 IMO.


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## mazzucazze (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi guys,

from what i read there are many different approaches to high intensity training, some recommending 1 set per exercise, some recommending 2 since beginners and intermediate may not be able to fully exhaust the muscle with just one set.

I have been doing volume training for a while (around 20 set for the biggest muscles and 12-15 for the smaller one), seems like it worked well. However seems also like the progress stalled and strength is not increasing anymore. I am thinking to take a week off and then move to HIT.

I was wondering what kind of training do u do? (i mean how many set per exercise and how many exercise)

my idea was to split the body in a push\pull and train 3 times a week so would be like:

week1

push

rest

rest

pull

rest

push

rest

week 2

pull

rest

rest

push

rest

pull

rest

any input on this guys?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well 20 sets is a bit much in my ever so humble opinion.

Do your push/pull routine.

Take a week off or reduce the weight and track your numbers in a *journal*.

Add weight to the bar each workout and if your numbers aren't going up, take more time off or do less.

I find HIT is good and I don't do more than 25-50 reps in any body part and that includes warm ups.

I also only train for about 24 minutes every other day.

Once again, max intensity in the shortest amount of time.

Look at a sprinters build and look at a long distance runners build. :whistling:


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## mazzucazze (Oct 13, 2009)

ok, so basically around 3 exercise for the biggest muscles and since the smaller muscles as triceps will be hit already during chest and shoulder exercises i will do 2 exercises for them.

I will try to keep reps around 8 and since i have not training partner, i will rely on drop set, rest pause and static contraction in order to increase intensity.

each rep will be controlled in the negative phase (at least 3 seconds).

For each exercise I will do 2 working set (obviously i will have to decrease the weight in the second set).

does this sounds ok?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

mazzucazze said:


> ok, so basically around 3 exercise for the biggest muscles and since the smaller muscles as triceps will be hit already during chest and shoulder exercises i will do 2 exercises for them.
> 
> I will try to keep reps around 8 and since i have not training partner, i will rely on drop set, rest pause and static contraction in order to increase intensity.
> 
> ...


No drop sets, unless you cant go to failure.

Two warm up sets and one set to failure and keep a journal.

Next exercise same muscle group one set to failure and done. Now you can do a drop set after that if you want but please track your weights.

I only say that because you can actually hinder your recovery. Think less is more.

Over training is hard on the CNS, just saying. You are better off under training than over training.

This is the way I train. I am a keyboard warrior so take that as you may.

It's all about the weight progression.

When you get stale and you will, swap exercise 1 with exercise 2 and keep rolling. Or be creative and use another exercise that you normally don't do.

The nice thing about that is you can be strong on almost every exercise.


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## Kezz (Sep 3, 2007)

i just train how i feel on the day, i think there is a lot of bullsh1t in bodybuilding, all these so called mass routines etc but look at half of the people doing them, generally skinny as fuk, dont slack in your training ,train with good form and intensity, keep swapping your routine regularly, eat sleep and grow


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## Gubbo (Aug 19, 2009)

Just been reading the posts beforehand and as someone new to this training jargon, have found it difficult to get my head around.

I am understanding that HIT is 1-2 sets until failure.

Volume training is 3-5 sets for about 8-12 reps.

Is this right?

I want to mix things up and was just thinking about doubling reps and halving weight for 1 week every month, would this work?

For example:

Currently doing 3x8.

Next week was thinking of doing 3x16 with halved weight.

Would this be of any use?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Gubbo said:


> Just been reading the posts beforehand and as someone new to this training jargon, have found it difficult to get my head around.
> 
> I am understanding that HIT is 1-2 sets until failure.
> 
> ...


no it would not.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I do like the simple math though, but I am afraid that might not work.

I normally stick to the 8 rep range myself but if I don't feel that I can meet or beat my last weeks numbers I also have a 12ish rep range that I might be able to beat from my prior 12 rep range pb.

So basically I have personal bests in the 8ish rep range and the 12ish rep range I can always walk out of the gym with a pb.

If I stop making personal bests I swap exercises and start all over.

Don't forget new exercises you always get a pb almost every workout because it is a new stimulus to the body.

Different angles, bar to db's, change rep ranges, slow the cadence you have so many different ways to mix it up.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2009)

essexboy said:


> no it would not.


You're very narrow minded


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Dan said:


> You're very narrow minded


Your very opinionated..lol


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2009)

winger said:


> Your very opinionated..lol


I prefer truthful :thumb:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Dan said:


> I prefer truthful :thumb:


I prefer porn myself. :whistling:


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## Chris4Pez1436114538 (Sep 3, 2007)

agree but i love porn not jus like it lol


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## Gubbo (Aug 19, 2009)

Cheers Winger, shame simple Math does not cut it.

Would make things a lot easier for everyone.

Will look at mixing it up, dont want to get stale and waste time in the gym.

Always comes as a shock that you can make progress from just minutes working out.

Shame more dont know about it.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Dan said:


> You're very narrow minded


Im sure wed ALL agree that to be effective lifting weights requires progress.Either you have to do more reps, or lift an ever increasing load , if you want your muscles to grow.They wont get bigger by merely performing what they can already do.

Now, if you using 8 reps one week, 16 the next, etc etc, you cannot standardise your w/o.You need to be able to know that last week I made 15 reps with 200lb in the squat.This week i need to make 16 reps.you need a standardised protocol,.not a mish mash of movements, that you can accurately gauge progress(or lack of it )by


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2009)

What ever you do have a concrete plan.

Nothing works for ever, you need periods of very heavy weights such as 4-8 but also times of higher reps such as 12+ to prevent the body from stagnating. Also joint damage from low reps is going to happen if you never lighten up.

That said doing more is not the right decision most of the time. Rather address issues such as rep speed and form used to put more stress on the muscle.

Your thyroid will slow and your ldl levels will increase if you constantly train with huge volume and over train. I have been there and done that with the blood tests to prove it.


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## Gubbo (Aug 19, 2009)

Just tried my first HIT session and think it went OK.

Feels so weird only going for 20mins so hope I managed to hit everything right.

I kept my same program of exercises, just added 150% weight to my normal 3x8 routine and went for 2 sets.

Found it tough and form did start to tail off towards the end but got through.

I really do not know about HIT sessions, but it seems like most people prefer it for gains.

Got to give everything a go.


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

Def high intestity.

Up the weight!!!


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## Spratty (Jul 21, 2010)

Intensity easy decision


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

HIT is when i truly started growing.


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Volume all the way, 5-8 exercises on each mucsle once a week

Somthings another 3 exercises on a muscle iv already trained 3-4 days later


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## ladcrooks (May 15, 2013)

its a mixture in a sense for me cos i do at least 5 sets for each main exercise i.e

25reps 15 -20, 12 -15, these sets are only to push as much blood into the muscle but not really taxing my energy. Then 2 - 3 feeler sets upping the weight for my 1 and only work set.

Then its 8 reps or till failure, then a couple more and rest and a few more maybe up to 15 reps. This I find for myself the best gains I get. Back 4 different exercises done this way. Once done it will not be trained until 9 days have elapsed:thumbup1:


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## SCOOT123 (Jul 12, 2013)

I am not to sure how you would do high intensity training with weights ?

Obviously cardio - RUN FAST - WALK SLOW - REPEAT....

but how with weights ?

@dltv - Care to educate ?


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## mmasc (Jul 27, 2012)

Phez said:


> Hey just wondering what every ones prefered style of training is..I personally prefer high intensity


heavy duty all the way for me, using more weight to promote more overload and more intensity so not to prolong workouts and cause cortisol release..


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Yates style HIT. Tried all sorts of training and volume training just isn't for me, negligible progress and I found the slow and steady approach boring as fock.

I don't believe that you should keep changing styles once you find something that works for you. You just have to experiment and recognise when is the right time to deload for a week or two in order to avoid plateaus and to dissipitate accumulated CNS fatigue from heavy training. Doing HIT properly means you'll probably need to deload every couple of months. I tend to lose a bit of intensity after a deload and my first week back in is never great so I have to lower the weights a little, but I spring back pretty quickly and surpass my old PBs on everything from benches to curls. If you get the balance right and make sure you're eating and sleeping well, you should keep progressing with the same program.


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## scruffy (Mar 1, 2005)

what about both? 

whats the difference anyway, volume being weight right?


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## stevieboy100 (Oct 30, 2012)

SCOOT123 said:


> I am not to sure how you would do high intensity training with weights ?
> 
> Obviously cardio - RUN FAST - WALK SLOW - REPEAT....
> 
> ...


It means to train with weights @85% or over your 1 rep max


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## sgtsniff (Feb 4, 2012)

Pyramid sets working up to a 3 rep max has completely transformed my physique despite changing my diet from eating "clean" to IIFYM.

Pyramids give you the best of both kid.


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

Always train with all out intensity (besides right before a show or doing a "restful" training period).

Volume needs to be high enough to stimulate growth.

The two are not mutually exclusive.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

There's giant space in between most of us would do even better in


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