# What the media dont show (Israel)



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

How much longer will israel's crimes against humanity be tolerated?

Most that read the news will see that 3 israeli boys were killed in palestine a few days ago, israel have blamed hamas as usual but have no evidence.

BBC news in particular highlighted the death and the seriousness blaming the Palestinians which I believe really was planned and used to increase violence in palestine beyond what is currently happening as well as demonise the palestinian people as being terrorists.

The following day after the 3 murders, air strikes were carried out in palestine (34 rockets) as well as a palestinian child being abducted and killed and two innocent children in the video below walking around not harming anyone being shot dead for no reason.

Statistics put it that since 2000 one Palestinian child has been killed every 3 days (1,518 from 2000-2013), 9000 arrested and many mores displaced from their homes being knocked down in place of israel settlers stealing land that never belonged to them in the first place.

Israel continously sings the "Iran & XYZ country does not recognise our existence and want to wipe us off the map, do they not see why? They were the target of a holocaust before but are currently committing one for the past 50 years while the international community stands by and condems palestinians for their "terrorist acts" such as fighting with stones against american funded israeli soldiers.

This sickens me to watch and does not display what goes on in a daily basis in the west bank, as well as being blockaded by a wall not being given clean water and limited access to electricity.

How much longer will it be tolerated?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/may/20/cctv-footage-palestinian-teenagers-shot-dead-video


----------



## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

It's no secret that Israel is run by Zionist Jews who want ultimate supremacy and the annihilation of Islam as a religion. They are worse than the Nazis, and you can't criticize them, that's why people are finding it so hard to stand up. To criticize Zionism is to be anti-Semitic. I can't see an end to any of it


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 23, 2011)

Sad that this still goes on in this day and age and is upsetting that no countries intervene but respect to the people who tried to help those who were shot.. That's courage.


----------



## PD89 (Mar 27, 2014)

The zionists run Hollywood and mass media, so Israel is portrayed as a saint, they certainly aren't, but neither are fundamentist Muslims. The hole region is a melting pot of religious dogma ignorance and medevil beliefs. Until religion dies the middle east will never see peace.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Interesting to see how this will all pan out, ISIS which is believed to be funded by america/israel will definitely go after israel if they can establish and access more weaponary than they currently have.

I'm sure it will all kick-off in the near future and we shall see some pretty big wars.


----------



## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

A horrible situation, i can see both sides point of view, but the killing of innocent children has been carried out by both sides, there will be no end to this i'm afraid until there is a ww3 which will leave the place (world) like a madmax reincarnation.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

husky said:


> A horrible situation, i can see both sides point of view, but the killing of innocent children has been carried out by both sides, there will be no end to this i'm afraid until there is a ww3 which will leave the place (world) like a madmax reincarnation.


i agree children have been killed on both sides, but israel is the aggresor and has been all along, palestinians fight with stones and rocks whereas israeli soldiers fight with top of the range american snipers and rifles.

In relation to the amount killed of palestinians to israelis is probably at least or more than 100 palestinians to 1 israeli.

This doesnt include the thousands who are detained and tortured, that and israel have now vowed to close 20 schools if they dont pay a 1 million fine because they do not use israeli curriculum.

The animals in the zoo are treated better than the Palestinian people and justice one day will be served.


----------



## ezeeno1 (Aug 14, 2011)

zak007 said:


> i agree children have been killed on both sides, but israel is the aggresor and has been all along, palestinians fight with stones and rocks whereas israeli soldiers fight with top of the range american snipers and rifles.
> 
> In relation to the amount killed of palestinians to israelis is probably at least or more than 100 palestinians to 1 israeli.
> 
> ...


Agree completely, I'm half iranian and see a completely different side to most on this but I agree with u... Isreal need stopping Nd sooner or later they will be I'm sure.


----------



## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Why can't people just get along, ah yes, religion.

Waste of time trying to fix all that bs


----------



## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

zak007 said:


> i agree children have been killed on both sides, but israel is the aggresor and has been all along, palestinians fight with stones and rocks whereas israeli soldiers fight with top of the range american snipers and rifles.
> 
> In relation to the amount killed of palestinians to israelis is probably at least or more than 100 palestinians to 1 israeli.
> 
> ...


Zak i see where you're coming from mate, i honestly think that there is some underlying agreement between certain nations and Israel and a blind eye is turned to some atrocities carried out, i believe the Israelis have decided that jews will never go through the horrors of what happened to their people during ww2 but they seem to forget that they are carrying out the same actions against people that was done to them.

I'll never forget the young palestinian boy hiding on the roof top with his dad after being caught in a cross fire between Israeli soldiers and PLO fighters, the Soldiers shot the young boy dead just after he turned and looked at the tv camera that was filming it , the fear in his eyes will never leave me and from that day on my view on the Israelis actions changed forever.

I'll never understand the middle east but would wish for the killing of innocents to stop.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

husky said:


> Zak i see where you're coming from mate, i honestly think that there is some underlying agreement between certain nations and Israel and a blind eye is turned to some atrocities carried out, i believe the Israelis have decided that jews will never go through the horrors of what happened to their people during ww2 but they seem to forget that they are carrying out the same actions against people that was done to them.
> 
> I'll never forget the young palestinian boy hiding on the roof top with his dad after being caught in a cross fire between Israeli soldiers and PLO fighters, the Soldiers shot the young boy dead just after he turned and looked at the tv camera that was filming it , the fear in his eyes will never leave me and from that day on my view on the Israelis actions changed forever.
> 
> I'll never understand the middle east but would wish for the killing of innocents to stop.


perfectly said.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

I watched a documentary film called 5 broken Cameras



A brilliant film -camera was purchased to document his son growing - it did that and one watches a boy growing up hating !!! and with good reason - in the end i think most who watched thought the Israelis absolute Cnuts - and they were and are to the Palestinians.

You do realize how much hold the jews have on press and politics in the us.

What have the jews learnt form the holocaust how to segregate and be absolute cnuts !!!! do onto others as they do to you ??

One does wonder if Israel was not formed how much less trouble there would be in the middle east and how much less hatred there would be towards the west.

If the Muslim world- class Israel as part of the west or think the west behaves like them - they are very much mistaken


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

romper stomper said:


> I watched a documentary film called 5 broken Cameras
> 
> View attachment 153651
> 
> ...


I think a lot of the middle east conflict wouldn't have happened. Egypt, libya, syria could possibly have been avoided.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

After seeing that documentary - and i also know a Wall street Journalist that was stationed in he west bank - you get to see how fcuking bad the Israelis are .

One of the camera mans brothers was arrested - being filmed taken to an army truck and one of the Jews just lifted his rifle and shot him in the leg !! no reason he was not struggling or had thrown stones or done anything wrong other than being there - that scene got a gasp from the audience !!


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

romper stomper said:


> After seeing that documentary - and i also know a Wall street Journalist that was stationed in he west bank - you get to see how fcuking bad the Israelis are .
> 
> One of the camera mans brothers was arrested - being filmed taken to an army truck and one of the Jews just lifted his rifle and shot him in the leg !! no reason he was not struggling or had thrown stones or done anything wrong other than being there - that scene got a gasp from the audience !!


there brave fcukers! go after anyone, especially western journalists they need to be brought back down to their level


----------



## Guest (Jul 3, 2014)

STOP!!!! . . . . . . They have a different way of life to all of us (UK. Usa. Canida. Spain. France. Australia. Italy ect). Most of them abuse females cuz they are a lower class (WTF). Most of them abuse children (WTF). Men can beat and kill women just cuz they FEEL like it (WTF). Its all about religion and oil power.

Our countrys should not get involved. . . . Period. Non of us are thanked and we have our own soldiers killed in the proses with no thanks only hate by both sides in the end from us making an honest mistake.

A dad cries cuz they killed his children . . . . But a lot of the patents rape their own children.

Most of them **** in their own living room and street.

Im no racist. . . . . But leave them to it. NO help will come from them when we all need it.

Just my opinion and mean not to offend anyone.

Children should never be tortured during war by two parties EVER!!! But they will forever regardless of our efforts.

Its all wrong and we should be able to stop it with all our power . . . But it will never get any better. . EVER.

SHAME THE WORLD HAS SUCH HORIBL PEOPLE OUT THEIR


----------



## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

Zionists are scum...Israel snipers are ruthless, I mind them shooting the BBC reporter few years back, even though he was wearing a peace symbol, and also that young English peace keeper...****ing tramps...I understand why there is so much anti-semtism in the world...simply, if the ordinary Jews find the Zionist actions deplorable, then they need to come out and say, but they don't...americans is heavily influenced by Jews, they even have a Jwish lobby within the Government....****ing ****s


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> there brave fcukers!


yes very brave - they threw gas Grenades indiscriminately as soon as anyone gathered - and it was all peaceful gatherings to start with then they even had a grenade machines that turned their hillsides into gas clouds - then with live ammo indiscriminately shoot people.


----------



## Barbell mafia (Jan 28, 2011)

The media will always back Israel because Jews such as The Rothschild's run the whole show!


----------



## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

Israel are the axis of evil


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

The biggest terroist state around.

Zionists won't stop their illegal occupation of palestinian land until they've secured the land from the Nile to the river Euphrates.

To thinks that the Jews were being persecuted 60 odd years ago and now they're doing exactly the same to the Palestinians. You would have thought, they, the jews out of all people would know how it feels to be persecuted!!

It's nothing but systematic ethnic cleansing, yet the US and Britain just carry on watching. Yet they were so quick to go into Iraq to take out the evil Dictator and "Liberate the people" 

Zionists are fcuking scums! :death:


----------



## Gynosaur (Mar 12, 2012)

So much anti-jew on this thread. What a fvcking disgrace.


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

Gynosaur said:


> So much anti-jew on this thread. What a fvcking disgrace.


Acutally it's Anti-Zionist not Anti-Semitic, there's a difference.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> So much anti-jew on this thread. What a fvcking disgrace.


well i wonder why ??


----------



## Gynosaur (Mar 12, 2012)

Sub-Zero said:


> Acutally it's Anti-Zionist not Anti-Semitic, there's a difference.


Point taken dude.

Actually no, point not taken.

Why?

Because I get a stupid question like, "you wonder why?"

Fvck sake...


----------



## Gynosaur (Mar 12, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> well i wonder why ??


Go on, tell me. I suppose you'll say something like "Israelis are all Jews".


----------



## Gynosaur (Mar 12, 2012)

romper stomper said:


> well i wonder why ??


Come on geez, get on with it, I haven't got all day to wait for your big justification.


----------



## Gynosaur (Mar 12, 2012)

Oh, and before I get flamed, I am not approving of what Israel are doing, it is utterly terrible, but my old man is Jewish (not practicing though) and it p1sses me off when people bang on like "Jew this and Jew that". What did my old man do to anyone? Fvck all, that's what.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Well a mature rational debate lasted to the end the first page.

That's a PB on UKM

#progress


----------



## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

Lot of 'zionist' talk in here.

Zionism = Jewry. All zionists are either Jewish or controlled by Jewish interests. Let's call it what it is for once.

Calling it as 'bad as the nazis' is pretty laughable too. Jews want total control of the planet. Yes, i know you were taught at school that that's what the Third Reich was all about, but schools teach wrong information.

The world is a dump and it's that way because of certain organisations and certain people. Some way down the line, ALL these are controlled by Jews. Make of that what you will.

Also, anti-Semitic implies a hatred of Jews, but Semitic doesn't mean Jewish.

It's funny how people are all up in arms about Islam (because Jewish-run papers are putting propaganda into your minds) yet Judaism claims it's some persecuted religion (it's actually a race) despite the fact that their holy books tell them any non-Jew is less than human, raping babies is fine for rabbi's and the taking of the *****'s women is fine because you are superior and they are mere cattle. Look it up, i'm not lying. Where's the uproar about this race of people who hold these views and just so happen to control everything you can and cannot do?

Oh wait, it's never been prescribed on the news so i guess the idiot masses can't be angry about it, as being angry about it would entail the reading of books.


----------



## militant (Jul 12, 2014)

A true practicing jew will always say Israel is NOT their promised land, and they are more than anti-zionist.

Iv seen plenty who even go on rallys with muslims, again media aint gonna show that are they?


----------



## achilles88 (Aug 27, 2010)

I've a good few close friends who are Orthodox Jews and even they acknowledge the fact that zionists are evil and wrong in their ideology.


----------



## Bomber1966 (Aug 19, 2010)

All this makes me happy to be an Atheist. Almost all of society's significant conflicts can, in some way be attributed to religion. I couldn't care less what someone's beliefs are, I just struggle when they attempt to impose them on others or treat others in a less favourable way because of them.

This applies to most of the major religions.... Let's not forget that there are about 2000 deities out there, your religion is an accident of birth....


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> To thinks that the Jews were being persecuted 60 odd years ago and now they're doing exactly the same to the Palestinians. You would have thought, they, the jews out of all people would know how it feels to be persecuted!!


a thing i have mentioned many times - they will never let the world forget about the holocaust - but quietly, try to do the same as Adolf did to them - simply another case of the suppressed becoming the suppressors.

The first thing Adolf did was identify and segregate by building walls / ghettos - some nice walls have gone up would you not agree ??

The largest group of war mongering fanatical hypocrites on the planet !!!


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

romper stomper said:


> a thing i have mentioned many times - they will never let the world forget about the holocaust - but quietly, try to do the same as Adolf did to them - simply another case of the suppressed becoming the suppressors.
> 
> The first thing Adolf did was identify and segregate by building walls / ghettos - some *nice walls have gone up would you not agree ??*
> 
> ...


Agree.

It's nothing but a racist apartheid system.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)




----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

check my avi out - i find hilarious - but connotations serious


----------



## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

Here we go again zeonist plot this, media agenda that. At the end of the day there both as bad as each other and the whole area is up 5hit creak there even killing each other just for taking their holly book in a slightly different way.

At the end of the day its the in thing to blame the establishment and all these freedom fighters from syria, palastine ect are the good guy?erm no

Think of it like this if Isreal stopped all the retaliation and violence would Hamas and Palastine stop? i dont think so both as bad as each other


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Think of it like this if Isreal stopped all the retaliation and violence would Hamas and Palastine stop? i dont think so both as bad as each other


what íf Israel never happened ??? if it was never formed ?? how do you think that would affect the region ???


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Very sad the whole affair. Those Palestinians should just up sticks and move though..there holding on to a pitch of sand....no one will help them, it's a lost cause.

If they don't the Israelis will wipe them out given enough time and take their little sand pitch anyway.

I feel sad for the Palestinians but then when I see what Isis are doing in Syria I realise what some of these groups are capable of (including Hamas).

The Israelis have invited the Palestinians to the table many times but since they were duped by Hamas the Israelis don't trust them anymore. It says a lot that a group like Isis are more interested in killing their own countrymen than they are in helping out the Palestinians...but that's the whole scenario in the middle east...too many factions fighting each other instead of pulling together and lifting one another up.

It's especially obvious in the OPECs...all the money they have and they wont look after their neighbours..theyre more than happy to take western dollars and filter it to groups like Hamas and Isis to buy arms instead of help out the people of West Bank and Gaza though.

A completely no win situation. The most tragic political stalemate in history.


----------



## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

It's mind boggling how many Genova conventions are broken by Israel yet no one says anything?

It's modern day genocide with what's happening over there. It's like a concentration camp.

USA and Israel are in partnership with many things so nothing will be done.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

geeby112 said:


> It's mind boggling how many Genova conventions are broken by Israel yet no one says anything?
> 
> It's modern day genocide with what's happening over there. It's like a concentration camp.
> 
> USA and Israel are in partnership with many things so nothing will be done.


USA have stopped funding Israel as USA couldn't afford it anymore. E.U. won't allow Israel become members of the E.U. so theyre more on their own than people are aware.

Why don't the other wealthy Islamic Saudi states help out the Palestinians? Everyone's blaming Israel, and rightly so up to a point, but wouldn't you think their filthy rich neighbours and cousins would help them out a little?


----------



## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Who cares, leave the ****s to their sand dunes if you ask me, no more British men should die interfering in the middle East! Our politicians have their heads up their ****s as always -


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

jason7474utd said:


> Here we go again zeonist plot this, media agenda that. At the end of the day there both as bad as each other and the whole area is up 5hit creak there even killing each other just for taking their holly book in a slightly different way.
> 
> At the end of the day its the in thing to blame the establishment and all these freedom fighters from syria, palastine ect are the good guy?erm no
> 
> Think of it like this if Isreal stopped all the retaliation and violence would Hamas and Palastine stop? i dont think so both as bad as each other


This isnt about people killing each other over a book its about a holocaust taking place plain and simple.

Freedom fighters, its america paying mercenaries to topple dictators as they did in libya, yes palestine would stop! Palestine only fight when provoked they have very little capability in terms of guns and rockets.

The palestinian people fight heavily armed israeli funded soldiers with stones and rocks. Your not seeing this correctly.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

megatron said:


> Who cares, leave the ****s to their sand dunes if you ask me, no more British men should die interfering in the middle East! Our politicians have their heads up their ****s as always -


its america and the british backing america who have caused this! Theres no reason for us to interfere in other countries affairs however we seem to do under some stupid politicians say so


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

zak007 said:


> Would you move if your terrority was being invaded? What if britian was invaded by another country say england who caged us all off and controlled all our affairs would you just up and leave?
> 
> Isis is currently trying to liberate the people and remove the oppressor's in charge who are opressing the people.
> 
> ...


Would I leave...under the circumstances: no money of any value, very little food, amentities, toilet paper as rare as gold..most definitely I'd leave. I wouldn't bring up children in that environment. I'd be knocking on Israels door asking them to get me the hell out of there A.S.A.P.

A few good friends of mine live in Gaza, I know firsthand what ordinary people there think of Hamas and are living with, I'm not just repeating dogma or propaganda I've read somewhere.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Marshan said:


> Would I leave...under the circumstances: no money of any value, very little food, amentities, toilet paper as rare as gold..most definitely I'd leave. I wouldn't bring up children in that environment. I'd be knocking on Israels door asking them to get me the hell out of there A.S.A.P.
> 
> A few good friends of mine live in Gaza, I know firsthand what ordinary people there think of Hamas and are living with, I'm not just repeating dogma or propaganda I've read somewhere.


genuinely intrigued to know what he says about hamas?


----------



## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

DeskSitter said:


> It's no secret that Israel is run by Zionist Jews who want ultimate supremacy and the annihilation of Islam as a religion.


Where do you get your information from, just out of interest?


----------



## Bedhead (Aug 11, 2012)

zak007 said:


> Isis is currently trying to liberate the people and remove the oppressor's in charge who are opressing the people.
> 
> Isis are first of all building their own state, once they are steady I'm sure they will go and attack israel given the chance but for now they are trying to establish a state build the foundations of a building instead of running before they can walk.


I think you should check out ISIS's brand of "liberating the people" on the 'Clanging of the Swords IV'

The last thing the region needs or indeed the world for that matter is these religious bigots establishing a state. At the moment they are only about 10,000 strong which isn't that much considering the ground they currently hold. The fact that they have made some pretty impressive ground is mainly due to the fact that they being a sunni group, have moved into sunni territory in Iraq.

I'm sure if they do decide to attack Israel at some point they will get their a$$ handed to them like their neighbours Syrian, Egyptians, Jordanians have.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

I don't care what the Middle Easterners do in the Middle East as long as the UK and my tax money don't get involved.


----------



## militant (Jul 12, 2014)

Bedhead said:


> I think you should check out ISIS's brand of "liberating the people" on the 'Clanging of the Swords IV'
> 
> The last thing the region needs or indeed the world for that matter is these religious bigots establishing a state. At the moment they are only about 10,000 strong which isn't that much considering the ground they currently hold. The fact that they have made some pretty impressive ground is mainly due to the fact that they being a sunni group, have moved into sunni territory in Iraq.
> 
> I'm sure if they do decide to attack Israel at some point they will get their a$$ handed to them like their neighbours Syrian, Egyptians, Jordanians have.


Thats with the yanks and uk armed forces up the israeli asses


----------



## Bedhead (Aug 11, 2012)

militant said:


> Thats with the yanks and uk armed forces up the israeli asses


And the Russians didn't support the other Arab states? Proxy wars, pretty standard stuff - my enemy's enemy is my friend.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Bedhead said:


> I think you should check out ISIS's brand of "liberating the people" on the 'Clanging of the Swords IV'
> 
> The last thing the region needs or indeed the world for that matter is these religious bigots establishing a state. At the moment they are only about 10,000 strong which isn't that much considering the ground they currently hold. The fact that they have made some pretty impressive ground is mainly due to the fact that they being a sunni group, have moved into sunni territory in Iraq.
> 
> I'm sure if they do decide to attack Israel at some point they will get their a$$ handed to them like their neighbours Syrian, Egyptians, Jordanians have.


got a link to said video?


----------



## Bedhead (Aug 11, 2012)

Not sure of the forum rules m8 so I'm not gonna put a link up on here.

If you can stomach 62mins of unrelenting violence, barbarity with no empathy or humanity displayed a quick google will get you an English subtitled version.


----------



## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

zak007 said:


> Would you move if your terrority was being invaded? What if britian was invaded by another country say england who caged us all off and controlled all our affairs would you just up and leave?
> 
> Isis is currently trying to liberate the people and remove the oppressor's in charge who are opressing the people.
> 
> ...


completly respect your views on the palestinians and the apartheid state of israel, but ISIS are a disgrace to there religion of islam, there is no chance of them creating a caliphate from syria into iraq

syria and assad have turned the tide in syria and ISIS will not leave the strongholds of sunni iraq, theyl be to busy fighting a civil war

after 9/11 and the stupid interventions in IRAQ and support for proxy wars in libya the so called arab spring has opened pandoras box and it aint gonna close anytime soon


----------



## artful_dodger87 (Mar 4, 2011)

zak007 said:


> got a link to said video?


You cannot even try to justify what ISIS are doing.

I won't get involved in Israel/Palestine debate but you cannot condone what Isis are doing in Iraq as liberating the people. You cant say in one hand the Zionist are doing a modern day hollocaust then accept/condone ISIS as the people's freedom fighters.

They are the biggest threat coming out of the Middle East for a long time. They brutally murder innocent muslims daily!! There are plenty of videos online ISIS set up road blocks stopping cars they line up hand tied at their backs, marching and parading them on camera belittling them then executing them whilst they're on their knees from right to left. Imagine being the last one to die!

Can you imagine known your fate because your brothers of the same religion don't see you worthy of life because you believe in a slightly different take to the same religion.

ISIS are sectarian murderers there are no dictators in Iraq to overthrow if they do take Iraq and they have a large enough hold in the region it'll be the biggest game changer in our life times.

World war 1 and 2 were easy compared to these modern day conflicts when sides used rules and wore uniforms.


----------



## DeskSitter (Jan 28, 2013)

Sigma said:


> Where do you get your information from, just out of interest?


Christ where do I begin with that really? Hundreds of hours of archive footage and research. You only have to look at their last president Ariel Sharon and the things he said off, and sometimes even on record about killing as many Palestinians as possible, and global Zionism. Peace was never on the books with Israel. Look to some of the Jewish lobby and Zionist groups in the US (hundreds of them), AIPAC being a prominent one and how they function. Look to the ADL, and other anti-defamation groups who effectually censor and bully anyone who criticizes any kind of Jewry. And then of course publications, news (the news not reported) and of course a degree of speculation. I'll put together a reading list for anyone that asks me that again


----------



## Bedhead (Aug 11, 2012)

I'd love to see your reading list, because the common perception is that some elements within the Islamic faith want the "ultimate supremacy and the annihilation" of Israel not the other way around. In fact most Palestinians, Muslims, and Arabs don't even acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist and want it annihilated. Geographically they are surrounded by their enemies, with their back against the Mediterranean and being a thin sliver of a country they have no strength in depth (depth being one of the tenets of defence, if you're over run you need positions to fall back to to continue defending or to launch a counter attack for instance) So with past history, the rhetoric of their neighbours it no real surprise they are aggressive imo.


----------



## Sigma (Apr 13, 2014)

X2 for the reading list request @DeskSitter. Please do.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

artful_dodger87 said:


> You cannot even try to justify what ISIS are doing.
> 
> I won't get involved in Israel/Palestine debate but you cannot condone what Isis are doing in Iraq as liberating the people. You cant say in one hand the Zionist are doing a modern day hollocaust then accept/condone ISIS as the people's freedom fighters.
> 
> ...


palestine/israel is a clear holocaust but a seperate conversation to this part

its hard to explain but there are many sects of islam, they shia's believe differently and the maliki the pm has been opressing the sunnis and this is a sunni resistance which involves killing which i dont condone of but it would be done vice versa if they were not to act and are simply trying to recreate an islamic state where muslims actually stick up for muslims instead of being in the zionists pocket and opressing the rest.

Isis are a threat but as america invade many countries israel killing palestinians these are seen as ok but not a threat because they wont physically attack the west but israel will silently pull the strings behind the screens


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Bedhead said:


> I'd love to see your reading list, because the common perception is that some elements within the Islamic faith want the "ultimate supremacy and the annihilation" of Israel not the other way around. In fact most Palestinians, Muslims, and Arabs don't even acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist and want it annihilated. Geographically they are surrounded by their enemies, with their back against the Mediterranean and being a thin sliver of a country they have no strength in depth (depth being one of the tenets of defence, if you're over run you need positions to fall back to to continue defending or to launch a counter attack for instance) So with past history, the rhetoric of their neighbours it no real surprise they are aggressive imo.


see the below quote, its been said for me. Ariel sharon and other israeli politicians have clearly stated it is ok to kill palestinians and they should be robbed, raped and murdered where they stand. Do your research and you will find this clearly.

Again read history there is a reason they dont acknowledge their existence to exist, they british in 1947 gave israel land the palestinians land which was not theres to give and the israelis have continuously been stealing more and more over the years and will continue until palestine is no more.

There is a reason their are armys, did everyone not oppose hitler when he was killing all of the jews,, the same thing is happening now except the israelis are the ones committing the holocaust whilst having large military capabilities and backing from america thus the reason they havent been attacked.

They have no right to their land and are breaking every geneva convention and human rights act on a daily basis but then in response to this they claim they are the enemy.

Read for example in the paper a few days ago, non stop propoganda about 3 israeli teens murdered, never a mention of the 1 child killed in palestine every day since 2000. This and tens of thousands are arrested and detained others are beaten and publicly humiliated on a daily basis by settlers.



DeskSitter said:


> Christ where do I begin with that really? Hundreds of hours of archive footage and research. You only have to look at their last president Ariel Sharon and the things he said off, and sometimes even on record about killing as many Palestinians as possible, and global Zionism. Peace was never on the books with Israel. Look to some of the Jewish lobby and Zionist groups in the US (hundreds of them), AIPAC being a prominent one and how they function. Look to the ADL, and other anti-defamation groups who effectually censor and bully anyone who criticizes any kind of Jewry. And then of course publications, news (the news not reported) and of course a degree of speculation. I'll put together a reading list for anyone that asks me that again


----------



## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

@zak007 are you sunni or shiite? Do you honestly believe religion is a thing worth fighting for in this day and age? And would you ever volounteer your services to ISIS or a rival shiite group (depending on which side your on) ?

Not trying cause an argument or anything im just genuinely interested in what the average muslim thinks on these things?


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

zak007 said:


> see the below quote, its been said for me. Ariel sharon and other israeli politicians have clearly stated it is ok to kill palestinians and they should be robbed, raped and murdered where they stand. Do your research and you will find this clearly.
> 
> Again read history there is a reason they dont acknowledge their existence to exist, they british in 1947 gave israel land the palestinians land which was not theres to give and the israelis have continuously been stealing more and more over the years and will continue until palestine is no more.
> 
> ...


Zak if you haven't lived in or spent time in Gaza or at the very least spent time talking with people from there you're just quoting hearsay and other peoples opinions and don't know what's *actually* going on over there..as for quoting Desksitter.....he's a conspiracy theorist and some of the things he quotes are utter fairytales he *chooses* to believe in. Zionism...the Rothschilds and so on...this is the stuff he comes out with here and on other sites.

If you're so concerned with what's happening over in Gaza and Syria or Iraq and want to be a help to them, go over there and find out for yourself what's going on and don't be a keyboard/internet jihadist, join Hamas or ISIS. As fos Desksitter, an Internet politician who knows everything and knows he's right 'cos youtube movies told him so.


----------



## artful_dodger87 (Mar 4, 2011)

Marshan said:


> Zak if you haven't lived in or spent time in Gaza or at the very least spent time talking with people from there you're just quoting hearsay and other peoples opinions and don't know what's *actually* going on over there..as for quoting Desksitter.....he's a conspiracy theorist and some of the things he quotes are utter fairytales he *chooses* to believe in. Zionism...the Rothschilds and so on...this is the stuff he comes out with here and on other sites.
> 
> If you're so concerned with what's happening over in Gaza and Syria or Iraq and want to be a help to them, go over there and find out for yourself what's going on and don't be a keyboard/internet jihadist, join Hamas or ISIS. As fos Desksitter, an Internet politician who knows everything and knows he's right 'cos youtube movies told him so.


If I could like this comment 10 times or know how to give reps I would.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Marshan said:


> Zak if you haven't lived in or spent time in Gaza or at the very least spent time talking with people from there you're just quoting hearsay and other peoples opinions and don't know what's *actually* going on over there..as for quoting Desksitter.....he's a conspiracy theorist and some of the things he quotes are utter fairytales he *chooses* to believe in. Zionism...the Rothschilds and so on...this is the stuff he comes out with here and on other sites.
> 
> If you're so concerned with what's happening over in Gaza and Syria or Iraq and want to be a help to them, go over there and find out for yourself what's going on and don't be a keyboard/internet jihadist, join Hamas or ISIS. As fos Desksitter, an Internet politician who knows everything and knows he's right 'cos youtube movies told him so.


keyboard ganster/internet jihadist? seriously......, have you read this thread, the initial post was to differentiate the difference in what the media reports. There are many websites that show what goes on there on a daily basis and i for one believe them as well as many others.

Have you been over there to confirm whats going on? I believe not


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

zak007 said:


> keyboard ganster/internet jihadist? seriously......, have you read this thread, the initial post was to differentiate the difference in what the media reports. There are many websites that show what goes on there on a daily basis and i for one believe them as well as many others.
> 
> Have you been over there to confirm whats going on? I believe not


I didn't type gangster. Believe whatever you like dude.

The whole Israel/Gaza/Jews/Islam/Irag/Iran/Zion/Afghanistan thing has been done here in one form or another 40 times and the thing I always see is this, no matter who's right or wrong, most of the information posted is wrong or propaganda and posted by people who have no firsthand experience of what they're writing about and haven't been in these places.

Granted there are strong feelings about these topics, but strong emotions doesn't make propaganda any the more true.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Marshan said:


> I didn't type gangster. Believe whatever you like dude.
> 
> The whole Israel/Gaza/Jews/Islam/Irag/Iran/Zion/Afghanistan thing has been done here in one form or another 40 times and the thing I always see is this, no matter who's right or wrong, most of the information posted is wrong or propaganda and posted by people who have no firsthand experience of what they're writing about and haven't been in these places.
> 
> Granted there are strong feelings about these topics, but strong emotions doesn't make propaganda any the more true.


are you a jew? It was simply a post on the news which had 3 israeli teens plastered on every newspaper but nothing about the thousands of palestinians killed and tortured. Many people dont get admitted into palestine/israel as the israeli's control the airports and are straight up cnuts. I wanted to go over and volunteer but it seemed to get into the west bank is a task in itself. I and many others can see fine well whats going on and there is no propaganda about it.


----------



## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

zak007 said:


> are you a jew? It was simply a post on the news which had 3 israeli teens plastered on every newspaper but nothing about the thousands of palestinians killed and tortured. Many people dont get admitted into palestine/israel as the israeli's control the airports and are straight up cnuts. I wanted to go over and volunteer but it seemed to get into the west bank is a task in itself. I and many others can see fine well whats going on and there is no propaganda about it.


I'm aware of all this.

You won't get in to Gaza or West Bank by legitimate means though, ever. And in fact you'll probably spend time in a prison before you get sent back home,

if you get sent back home.

You could get into Gaza now from Egypt (although I doubt it) but you better have a lot of very good connections to help you. No I'm not a Jew.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Marshan said:


> I'm aware of all this.
> 
> You won't get in to Gaza or West Bank by legitimate means though, ever. And in fact you'll probably spend time in a prison before you get sent back home,
> 
> ...


----------



## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

Bedhead said:


> I'd love to see your reading list, because the common perception is that some elements within the Islamic faith want the "ultimate supremacy and the annihilation" of Israel not the other way around. In fact most Palestinians, Muslims, and Arabs don't even acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist and want it annihilated. Geographically they are surrounded by their enemies, with their back against the Mediterranean and being a thin sliver of a country they have no strength in depth (depth being one of the tenets of defence, if you're over run you need positions to fall back to to continue defending or to launch a counter attack for instance) So with past history, the rhetoric of their neighbours it no real surprise they are aggressive imo.


----------



## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

if im not mistaken the terror organistion that is HAMAS hasnt launched suicide atacks in israel in 4 yrs, now if you include a few automatic weapons and kasam rockets as backs to the wall, well every army would fight that and win, the ppls of palestine want a peaceful future

israel the zionist entity will never allow that, dont confuse jew with zionism two different animals

israel has decided to destroy another bit of palestine before the wks out, with there tanks and fighter jets

tell me how many kids is an acceptable level of murder for them to committ this wk? i reckon anything under 30 kids and sky news wont even report it

funny world we live in and sad to be so blinkered


----------



## 222 (Feb 7, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> Well a mature rational debate lasted to the end the first page.
> 
> That's a PB on UKM
> 
> #progress


pretty sure it was very one sided


----------



## Sams (Nov 3, 2013)

Viral warfare is the only answer


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Suicide attacks havent happened because the israeli army are prepared. They have prevented many many of these which arent said on the biased news. Israel also foiled hamas' attack that waa going to happen in semptember which was to sneak through the tunnels and kill any israeli in sight which would have been in 1000's


----------



## cyril123 (Oct 7, 2013)

zak007 said:


> see the below quote, its been said for me. Ariel sharon and other israeli politicians have clearly stated it is ok to kill palestinians and they should be robbed, raped and murdered where they stand. Do your research and you will find this clearly.
> 
> Again read history there is a reason they dont acknowledge their existence to exist, they british in 1947 gave israel land the palestinians land which was not theres to give and the israelis have continuously been stealing more and more over the years and will continue until palestine is no more.
> 
> ...


Wow a guy supporting Isis the group who have kidnapped 400 yazidi woman to sell as sex slaves, the people who chased 40000 yazidis up a mountain. Isis who force people to convert to Islam or die, the people who behead fellow Muslims for refusing to affiliate with these animals. You won't condemn these barbaric acts against humanity but you spout a load of conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel who are breaching human rights. Ultimately people need to make up their own mind in the Middle East and it seems pretty fashionable to be talking about the subject recently. However the fact is if Israel wanted to commit "genocide" in gaza it would take about 15 minutes to wipe out the whole strip. It's a tiny piece of land. There is genocide happening in the world just not in gaza. We need to look at Syria, Iran, Nigeria and Sudan. The quicker Europe wakes up and deals with Islamic extremism the better if these so called peaceful Muslims don't call out Isis for what they are they should leave.


----------



## militant (Jul 12, 2014)

cyril123 said:


> Wow a guy supporting Isis the group who have kidnapped 400 yazidi woman to sell as sex slaves, the people who chased 40000 yazidis up a mountain. Isis who force people to convert to Islam or die, the people who behead fellow Muslims for refusing to affiliate with these animals. You won't condemn these barbaric acts against humanity but you spout a load of conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel who are breaching human rights. Ultimately people need to make up their own mind in the Middle East and it seems pretty fashionable to be talking about the subject recently. However the fact is if Israel wanted to commit "genocide" in gaza it would take about 15 minutes to wipe out the whole strip. It's a tiny piece of land. There is genocide happening in the world just not in gaza. We need to look at Syria, Iran, Nigeria and Sudan. The quicker Europe wakes up and deals with Islamic extremism the better if these so called peaceful Muslims don't call out Isis for what they are they should leave.


What do you expect these "so called peaceful muslims" to do? Go over there to Syria and Iraq and give them a big telling off? Then ppl like you will still most likey call all muslims who dont agree with the ISIS regime a terrorist anyway. There a lot of "so called peaceful muslim" who hate the terrorists which are muslims by name and not by nature. Isis gives every muslim a bad name.


----------



## militant (Jul 12, 2014)

Proper practising muslims are as equally frustrated as you are


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

as disturbing as it is to see anyone getting shot, what i find even more sickening is the way camera crews appear out of nowhere and just carry on filming him on the floor rather than try and help....

****ing journalistic parasites


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

The cameras are set up alot of the time


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

* Originally Posted by zak007 View Post*

*
see the below quote, its been said for me. Ariel sharon and other israeli politicians have clearly stated it is ok to kill palestinians and they should be robbed, raped and murdered where they stand. Do your research and you will find this clearly.*

*
*

*
Again read history there is a reason they dont acknowledge their existence to exist, they british in 1947 gave israel land the palestinians land which was not theres to give and the israelis have continuously been stealing more and more over the years and will continue until palestine is no more. *

*
There is a reason their are armys, did everyone not oppose hitler when he was killing all of the jews,, the same thing is happening now except the israelis are the ones committing the holocaust whilst having large military capabilities and backing from america thus the reason they havent been attacked.*

*
*

*
They have no right to their land and are breaking every geneva convention and human rights act on a daily basis but then in response to this they claim they are the enemy.*

*
*

*
Read for example in the paper a few days ago, non stop propoganda about 3 israeli teens murdered, never a mention of the 1 child killed in palestine every day since 2000. This and tens of thousands are arrested and detained others are beaten and publicly humiliated on a daily basis by settlers.*



cyril123 said:


> Wow a guy supporting Isis the group who have kidnapped 400 yazidi woman to sell as sex slaves, the people who chased 40000 yazidis up a mountain. Isis who force people to convert to Islam or die, the people who behead fellow Muslims for refusing to affiliate with these animals. You won't condemn these barbaric acts against humanity but you spout a load of conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel who are breaching human rights. Ultimately people need to make up their own mind in the Middle East and it seems pretty fashionable to be talking about the subject recently. However the fact is if Israel wanted to commit "genocide" in gaza it would take about 15 minutes to wipe out the whole strip. It's a tiny piece of land. There is genocide happening in the world just not in gaza. We need to look at Syria, Iran, Nigeria and Sudan. The quicker Europe wakes up and deals with Islamic extremism the better if these so called peaceful Muslims don't call out Isis for what they are they should leave.


where do I fcuking say that I support Isis you cnut, you've been here since oct 2013 and this is your 3rd post. Do you even lift ***?


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Would love to know when you got your information!!! You do realise before this started happening the previous month hamas kills more of its own people than israel do?


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

I've seen footage of missile strikes being aborted last minute because of civilians walking in to the impact area... They are not purposely attacking civilians.


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Thankyou dave


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

robbo9 said:


> Would love to know when you got your information!!! You do realise before this started happening the previous month hamas kills more of its own people than israel do?


seriously? its fcuking plastered all over the news and has been going on for decades.



Dave1180 said:


> I've seen footage of missile strikes being aborted last minute because of civilians walking in to the impact area... They are not purposely attacking civilians.


have you now? I take it you've missed the snipers taking out children and young adults walking down the street to and that you also missed the videos where they attacked a UN hospital which they were given the coordinates of 17 times before they still attacked it.

you must be watching some completely different stuff from what I'm watching


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

You do realise the news is very biased?? You dont see that though. The hospitals which are hit dont even have patients in them. Many of them are just militants firing rockets from them but when israel strike it hamas will say their militants are civilians


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Also snipers dont do that haha you do realise the israeli army is regarded as the best if not the best army in the world. Why would israel do things like this to get a bad name as thats the least they want


----------



## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

robbo9 said:


> You do realise the news is very biased?? You dont see that though. The hospitals which are hit dont even have patients in them. Many of them are just militants firing rockets from them but when israel strike it hamas will say their militants are civilians


Jews own and run all news. Think about that before you post rubbish.


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Are you actually serious right now???


----------



## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

robbo9 said:


> Also snipers dont do that haha you do realise the israeli army is regarded as the best if not the best army in the world. Why would israel do things like this to get a bad name as thats the least they want


Top logic.

A race and country whose main perogative in life is to destroy all others in order to further the interests of their own people wouldn't do something because it would affect their image.

Top, top logic.


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Its funny how israel have jews thats it targeted. Why isnt isis or syria on the news as much as israel? 10x more deaths there. And what about hamas killing their own people in gaza?


----------



## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

robbo9 said:


> Are you actually serious right now???


This shows your ignorance. There are about 15 books you need to read before you're even allowed to have an opinion on this topic. Get reading kiddo.


----------



## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

robbo9 said:


> Its funny how israel have jews thats it targeted. Why isnt isis or syria on the news as much as israel? 10x more deaths there. And what about hamas killing their own people in gaza?


I'm not going to reply to someone with a basic lack of understanding of the situation. As i said, your opinion is less than worthless as you've already demonstrated. You need to go do an awful lot of reading.


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

I know what im talking about ive lived in both england and israel. I read a passage on here yesterday that was conpletely unbiased and said the good and bad of both israel and gaza. I am a soldier in israel yet i can still see the bad in israel and the good from gaza. I always listen to both sides before judging. Guess your the one thats uneducated and wont want to hear the truth


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

This guy who wrote it was pakistan if i remember correctly and wrote some good information with refrences


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

If you send me the passages i will happily read them with an open mind


----------



## platyphylla (Feb 17, 2014)

robbo9 said:


> I know what im talking about ive lived in both england and israel. I read a passage on here yesterday that was conpletely unbiased and said the good and bad of both israel and gaza. I am a soldier in israel yet i can still see the bad in israel and the good from gaza. I always listen to both sides before judging. Guess your the one thats uneducated and wont want to hear the truth


You responded to a post claiming all media is owned by Jews by asking if i was being serious. This is proof that you know zero.

I'm very far from 'uneducated' on the matter of Jewry my friend. And there is nothing good about Israel, the entire place and everyone in it should be wiped out.


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Well the media isnt controlled by jews because of it was why would they be negative about themselves?? I said i would read your passages with an open mind? And you do realise the computer system your using now and for example most of your medication is made by a jew?? So if you despise jews so much i think you should hop on this so called bandwagon to boycott everything jewish and israeli, but please be the first to actually do it properly and not just half heartedly. You will realised that you wont be able to cope in the world without the israelis and jews


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> seriously? its fcuking plastered all over the news and has been going on for decades.
> 
> have you now? I take it you've missed the snipers taking out children and young adults walking down the street to and that you also missed the videos where they attacked a UN hospital which they were given the coordinates of 17 times before they still attacked it.
> 
> you must be watching some completely different stuff from what I'm watching


Yeah i must have been... Actual uav footage as opposed to the rubbish thrown on TV..


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

robbo9 said:


> You do realise the news is very biased?? You dont see that though. The hospitals which are hit dont even have patients in them. Many of them are just militants firing rockets from them but when israel strike it hamas will say their militants are civilians





robbo9 said:


> Also snipers dont do that haha you do realise the israeli army is regarded as the best if not the best army in the world. Why would israel do things like this to get a bad name as thats the least they want


Lmao I dont know if your serious just now or just trolling

Its a well known fact the news is Biased towards Israel.

Theres plenty of videos showing the shooting of innocent people, one of the best army's in the world but you cannot deny footage that blatantly show what israel have doing.

Also the blowing up of schools, hospitals and the like. You can't possibly deny all of these mate what world are you living in seriously?

Isis is on the news as much as syria but that is a different topic.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

robbo9 said:


> I know what im talking about ive lived in both england and israel. I read a passage on here yesterday that was conpletely unbiased and said the good and bad of both israel and gaza. I am a soldier in israel yet i can still see the bad in israel and the good from gaza. I always listen to both sides before judging. Guess your the one thats uneducated and wont want to hear the truth


So your a soldier in israel, killing innocent palestinians. Well done. Tell me the basis of this war and the need to continue blowing up palestine homes, invading their land, cutting off their water supply, destroying their only electric plant and putting them under seige.

Do you plan on coming back to england?



Dave1180 said:


> Yeah i must have been... Actual uav footage as opposed to the rubbish thrown on TV..


There are plenty and plenty of videos showing footage of killings, not just one UAV video.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> So your a soldier in israel, killing innocent palestinians. Well done. Tell me the basis of this war and the need to continue blowing up palestine homes, invading their land, cutting off their water supply, destroying their only electric plant and putting them under seige.
> 
> Do you plan on coming back to england?
> 
> There are plenty and plenty of videos showing footage of killings, not just one UAV video.


Who said just one? You're blatantly biased and not looking at the situation objectively


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

What the media dont show

it does not show the 100's of Robo- calls

"To the residents of the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army warns you against obeying the orders of the terrorist Hamas or having any contact with it," the recipient of one such pre-recorded message quoted it to AFP as saying.

"Know that Hamas is spending millions of dollars on tunnels used for hostile and terrorist acts against the state of Israel," it said. "This money should have gone to infrastructure, education and health projects."


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> Who said just one? You're blatantly biased and not looking at the situation objectively


feel free to show me, there are hundreds if not thousands of videos that actually show the bombings of civillian houses, destruction of civilian farmland, children killed on a beach, snipers killing at will and laughing after they kill young adults/children.

There is no explanation of what israel have done.

To sum this up, why oh why did israel attack a UN Shelter after being given the coordinates 17 fcuking times? Do try and come back with an argument that has some weight to it.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

romper stomper said:


> What the media dont show
> 
> it does not show the 100's of Robo- calls
> 
> ...


Lmao israel warn residents of bombing by dropping a smaller bombs, they tell citizens to evacuate areas but where can they go all the border crossings are closed?

Should they go to a UN shelter, that seems like a safe place, UN has given israel army the coordinates 17 times to not bomb it, but that gets bombed too. Where can they go? Nowhere is safe.

Infrastructure you say? Education and health projects?

All these require resources, israel have destroyed so much infrastructure in this war, so many universities and schools as well as hospitals. The tunnels exist to get medicine, supplies and food in through egypt because the crossings are closed.

I held you in high regard with some of the stuff you said, this post unfortunately has lowered that regard dearly.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> feel free to show me, there are hundreds if not thousands of videos that actually show the bombings of civillian houses, destruction of civilian farmland, children killed on a beach, snipers killing at will and laughing after they kill young adults/children.
> 
> There is no explanation of what israel have done.
> 
> To sum this up, why oh why did israel attack a UN Shelter after being given the coordinates 17 fcuking times? Do try and come back with an argument that has some weight to it.


I can't, it was shown to me while I was there... Have you ever been?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> I can't, it was shown to me while I was there... Have you ever been?


I probably wouldn't be allowed in, seeing as Israel treats every non israeli like crap and denies many entry.


----------



## smity220385 (Mar 15, 2012)

Well u say that the tunnels are used for medical supplies etc because they have closed the borders but surely they must use the tunnels for weapons as well?

I'm unbiased on the subject but I know that a lot of Muslims who I speak to hate all Jews! I find it comical tbh as some of the stuff spouted off is completely backwards.

If I'm honest if Israel wipe out the Palestinians I really couldn't care less, if they wanted to the could have done so already, with ease.

I can understand them protecting their boarders as the are surrounded by countries that hate them... But for me, I find I can relate more to israel as their very similar to the rest of the modern western countries


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> I probably wouldn't be allowed in, seeing as Israel treats every non israeli like crap and denies many entry.


Maybe you should try?

I was lucky enough to go with work which is how I saw the uav footage (quite a few videos) of the missile strikes I mentioned.

As others have said, don't you honestly think that if all Israel wanted to do was wipe all the Palestinians out it'd have been done a long time ago?

I do get that one man's freedom fighters is another man's terrorist but hamas really haven't helped the cause of the innocent civilian, have they?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> Maybe you should try?
> 
> I was lucky enough to go with work which is how I saw the uav footage (quite a few videos) of the missile strikes I mentioned.
> 
> ...


you may have seen some uav footage, but you still dont answer all the innocent killings of thousands by israel that are videos throughout the internet?

They are wiping them out slowly, if they completely wiped them out in one go the world would be forced to act.

Hamas are doing all that they can, there is nothing more they can do when it is israel doing the killing of innocent civillians. Are you israeli too?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

smity220385 said:


> Well u say that the tunnels are used for medical supplies etc because they have closed the borders but surely they must use the tunnels for weapons as well?
> 
> I'm unbiased on the subject but I know that a lot of Muslims who I speak to hate all Jews! I find it comical tbh as some of the stuff spouted off is completely backwards.
> 
> ...


Yes I'm sure they use them for arms too, I dont like the whole "jews" are the problem, it is not jews this is what I try to explain it is the zionists. A lot of jews know this themselves.

They portray themselves as similar but are they fcuk, their just as bad as the nazis except a lot more organised and with the backing of the us and uk


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> you may have seen some uav footage, but you still dont answer all the innocent killings of thousands by israel that are videos throughout the internet?
> 
> They are wiping them out slowly, if they completely wiped them out in one go the world would be forced to act.
> 
> Hamas are doing all that they can, there is nothing more they can do when it is israel doing the killing of innocent civillians. Are you israeli too?


Maybe I've not seen these videos that have been on the Internet, are you sure it's not just propaganda much like Iraq did to the USA and us?

If they are wiping them out wouldn't the united nations actually do something about it? I may be mistaken but wasn't that what was going on in kosovo?

And no, I'm not from Israel, are you Palestinian?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> Maybe I've not seen these videos that have been on the Internet, are you sure it's not just propaganda much like Iraq did to the USA and us?
> 
> If they are wiping them out wouldn't the united nations actually do something about it? I may be mistaken but wasn't that what was going on in kosovo?
> 
> And no, I'm not from Israel, are you Palestinian?


mate its not propaganda, neither were some of the videos in iraq.

After reading up a bit about wiping them out, statistics from the engineering police of Gaza ministry say that Israel has dropped 200,000 tons of explosives on 139 square miles of territory. Its been equalled to around six nuclear bombs, let me just reiterate that *SIX NUCLEAR BOMBS!!!!!!!!!*

Source: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/13646-palestinian-officials-israels-shelling-of-gaza-equivalent-to-6-nuclear-bombs

No I'm not


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Lmao israel warn residents of bombing by dropping a smaller bombs, they tell citizens to evacuate areas but where can they go all the border crossings are closed?
> 
> Should they go to a UN shelter, that seems like a safe place, UN has given israel army the coordinates 17 times to not bomb it, but that gets bombed too. Where can they go? Nowhere is safe.


well one should stop firing 100's of useless rockets at them !! its so retarded - the idiots fire fireworks over the border and get absolutely pasted by Israel !! as stated i was very sympathetic towards the Palestinians after watching 5 broken cameras - as seeing what was going on - but after seeing the idiot suicidal Hamas and its pathetic rockets i have lost all sympathies for the cause - just abstract stupidity - suicidal leadership slaughtering its very own beloved people to get world sympathies ??

No Matter if Israeli actions are deplorable - Illegal ?? we and many of the world have managed to work out

if Hamas fires rockets into Israel - they will get pounded with bombs artillery fire - air strikes - and suffer masses of casualties casualties

I am sure the Hamas leadership have managed to work that one out ???? have they not ??


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> mate its not propaganda, neither were some of the videos in iraq.
> 
> After reading up a bit about wiping them out, statistics from the engineering police of Gaza ministry say that Israel has dropped 200,000 tons of explosives on 139 square miles of territory. Its been equalled to around six nuclear bombs, let me just reiterate that *SIX NUCLEAR BOMBS!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> ...


Statistics given by Palestine, you really think they're going to be impartial?


----------



## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

romper stomper said:


> well one should stop firing 100's of useless rockets at them !! its so retarded - the idiots fire fireworks over the border and get absolutely pasted by Israel !! as stated i was very sympathetic towards the Palestinians after watching 5 broken cameras - as seeing what was going on - but after seeing the idiot suicidal Hamas and its pathetic rockets i have lost all sympathies for the cause - just abstract stupidity - suicidal leadership slaughtering its very own beloved people to get world sympathies ??
> 
> No Matter if Israeli actions are deplorable - Illegal ?? we and many of the world have managed to work out
> 
> ...


what country etc would sit back and do nothing, regardless of how poor their fire power, army etc, if one Countryt was constantly stealing their land and murdering their people?


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> what country etc would sit back and do nothing


well with Israel as an enemy next door - and a massively well equipped one - a sensible country- would do nothing !!!

which none of the neighbors seem to be !!

Palestianians seem to blame other xyz countries for the foundation of Israel - well of they were fully in control of their own turf would that have happened ???


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> Statistics given by Palestine, you really think they're going to be impartial?


Its not as if there going to let any other cnut get in there to do tests, many human rights groups have been denied access. Even if it was half that its still bad.

What are you trying to defend here?


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> Its not as if there going to let any other cnut get in there to do tests, many human rights groups have been denied access. Even if it was half that its still bad.
> 
> What are you trying to defend here?


I'm trying to defend the fact that Israel are defending their citizens, if they stopped retaliating what do you honestly think would happen? everything would just stop? hamas are not going to stop, and if Israel show weakness against them do you really think IS or any other group with extremist opinions will just ignore them?


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Israelis like to blame Hamas for using civilians as human shields, but the reality is the cowardly Israeli army have been doing that for years.






The holocaust is no excuse to brutalise and oppress others


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> I'm trying to defend the fact that Israel are defending their citizens, if they stopped retaliating what do you honestly think would happen? everything would just stop? hamas are not going to stop, and if Israel show weakness against them do you really think IS or any other group with extremist opinions will just ignore them?


They have an iron dome defence system that defends their citizens perfectly fine, they are the clear aggressor and have been for the last 50+ years

Yes, if they were to stop arresting Palestinians most of them children, stop the blockade, open the border crossings and allow construction and medical supplies in yes. Its not showing weakness its fcuking humanity!

What has IS got to do with this, they will never get to israel america will make sure of that.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> They have an iron dome defence system that defends their citizens perfectly fine, they are the clear aggressor and have been for the last 50+ years
> 
> Yes, if they were to stop arresting Palestinians most of them children, stop the blockade, open the border crossings and allow construction and medical supplies in yes. Its not showing weakness its fcuking humanity!
> 
> What has IS got to do with this, they will never get to israel america will make sure of that.


they already pulled out once and let Palestine try and sort itself out... did they??

its not just IS as I said theres other extremist groups that could take action or even countries..


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> they already pulled out once and let Palestine try and sort itself out... did they??


pulled out of where? Do you consider the Gaza strip to be the same as Palestine? The Israelis have never ceased their brutal occupation. Gaza is an open air prison.Israel controls what goes in and what goes out.

Its like me coming into your home taking it over kicking you and your family out, putting you in your garden shed and saying "there, you can have that to live in", but I'll control your water, your gas, your electricity, your medicine, everything. Would you stand for that? To top it all off when you protest the injustice and throw a stone at me, I bomb the crap out of ya and label you a terrorist and tell the world," hey I'm just defending me and my family in my own home" .


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> pulled out of where? Do you consider the Gaza strip to be the same as Palestine? The Israelis have never ceased their brutal occupation. Gaza is an open air prison.Israel controls what goes in and what goes out.
> 
> Its like me coming into your home taking it over kicking you and your family out, putting you in your garden shed and saying "there, you can have that to live in", but I'll control your water, your gas, your electricity, your medicine, everything. Would you stand for that? To top it all off when you protest the injustice and throw a stone at me, I bomb the crap out of ya and label you a terrorist and tell the world," hey I'm just defending me and my family in my own home" .


The Israeli disengagement from Gaza (Hebrew: ????????? ???????????????, Tokhnit HaHitnatkut; in the Disengagement Plan Implementation Law), also known as "Gaza expulsion" and "Hitnatkut", was the withdrawal of the Israeli army from Gaza, and the dismantling of all Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip in 2005. Four small settlements in the northern West Bank were also evacuated.

The disengagement was proposed by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, adopted by the government on June 6, 2004 and enacted in August 2005. Those Israeli citizens who refused to accept government compensation packages and voluntarily vacate their homes prior to the August 15, 2005 deadline, were evicted by Israeli security forces over a period of several days.[1] The eviction of all residents, demolition of the residential buildings and evacuation of associated security personnel from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005.[2] The eviction and dismantlement of the four settlements in the northern West Bank was completed ten days later

from wiki

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4235768.stm also bbc


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> they already pulled out once and let Palestine try and sort itself out... did they??
> 
> its not just IS as I said theres other extremist groups that could take action or even countries..


they pulled out military but had done all the damage required, made many settlements and stole miles and miles of land, still had military going in arresting people, detaining and jailing people without charge all while maintaining the siege.

You also put this across as they pulled out, they had been there since 1947 and had no right to be there, they should have never put gaza under occupation.

there is no other countries or extremist groups, its all a farce.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> they pulled out military, still had military going in arresting people, detaining and jailing people without charge all while maintaining the siege
> 
> there is no other countries or extremist groups, its all a farce.


if you say so...


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> if you say so...


I added to my post, your ignorant to the facts and dont deny the majority of what I say yet still try and defend israel with minuscule things.

If this was an islamic group doing the same, they wouldnt last 1 year never mind 70+.


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> The Israeli disengagement from Gaza (Hebrew: ????????? ???????????????, Tokhnit HaHitnatkut; in the Disengagement Plan Implementation Law), also known as "Gaza expulsion" and "Hitnatkut", was the withdrawal of the Israeli army from Gaza, and the dismantling of all Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip in 2005. Four small settlements in the northern West Bank were also evacuated.
> 
> The disengagement was proposed by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, adopted by the government on June 6, 2004 and enacted in August 2005. Those Israeli citizens who refused to accept government compensation packages and voluntarily vacate their homes prior to the August 15, 2005 deadline, were evicted by Israeli security forces over a period of several days.[1] The eviction of all residents, demolition of the residential buildings and evacuation of associated security personnel from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005.[2] The eviction and dismantlement of the four settlements in the northern West Bank was completed ten days later
> 
> ...


Disengagement from Gaza and four settlements in no way constitutes giving the Palestinians their homeland back, refer back to my earlier example of allowing you to live in your garden shed and then telling everyone how kind I am for doing so all the while controlling how much you and your family are allowed to eat and drink and what medicines I decide to allow you to have etc etc.

Would you stand for that?

If your not too clued up about the whole situation I suggest you do some research before you decide to argue the case for Israel.

Ben Gurion(first prime minister of Israel) himself said



> If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; *we have taken their country*. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, *but was that their fault *? They see but one thing: *we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?*


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> Disengagement from Gaza and four settlements in no way constitutes giving the Palestinians their homeland back, refer back to my earlier example of allowing you to live in your garden shed and then telling everyone how kind I am for doing so all the while controlling how much you and your family are allowed to eat and drink and what medicines I decide to allow you to have etc etc.
> 
> Would you stand for that?
> 
> ...


Discussing Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, when the country pulled out troops and evacuated settlements despite intense domestic opposition, Peres said the Palestinians could have developed the Strip but chose to fire rockets instead.

"Look, we left Gaza willingly, unilaterally," Peres said. "We handed over to the Palestinians a free, open Gaza. Which is a beautiful strip of a beautiful beach. They could have developed it for tourism, for fishing, for agriculture. We don't understand, frankly, why are they fighting? What are they shooting? What are the reasons? We left. What is the purpose? They want to be free? They are free."

also http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-myth-of-the-gaza-withdrawal/


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> I added to my post, your ignorant to the facts and dont deny the majority of what I say yet still try and defend israel with minuscule things.
> 
> If this was an islamic group doing the same, they wouldnt last 1 year never mind 70+.


I don't deny things you say because they make no sense, no point in arguing with it.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> I don't deny things you say because they make no sense, no point in arguing with it.


you really are stupid aren't you? What makes no sense.

Let me sum this up.

Israel were given land that didn't belong to them in 1947 by the british, after this they waged war on palestine and put it under occupation slowly taking more and more land. Now they continually wage war, along with blocking aid, blocking construction and medical supplies. Have built a wall around them and segregated them and closed their border crossings. Their under extreme economic stress, can't fish more than a few miles in their water and have restricted access to their own water supplies which israel stole and have limited access to electricity.

All this in the name of Israel's security, when they are the clear aggressor, receive billions in aid from america and have all the latest technology. The threat from hamas and Palestine is low. Their iron missile defence system catches 99% of rockets and the rate of casualty in comparison to rockets fired in retaliation to israels aggression is lest than 0.5%

What part doesn't make sense?


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> you really are stupid aren't you? What makes no sense.
> 
> Let me sum this up.
> 
> ...


they pulled out military but had done all the damage required, made many settlements and stole miles and miles of land, still had military going in arresting people, detaining and jailing people without charge all while maintaining the siege.

there is no other countries or extremist groups, its all a farce.

complete sh1te


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> they pulled out military but had done all the damage required, made many settlements and stole miles and miles of land, still had military going in arresting people, detaining and jailing people without charge all while maintaining the siege.
> 
> there is no other countries or extremist groups, its all a farce.
> 
> complete sh1te


no other country or group will attack israel, if they would it would have been done many many years ago.

I'm getting sick of explaining this now as you just cant fathom it


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> no other country or group will attack israel, if they would it would have been done many many years ago.
> 
> I'm getting sick of explaining this now as you just cant fathom it


what I cant fathom is how stupid and childish you are.. a neg rep because I don't agree with you and cant be bothered trying to write a load of text so you can just ignore it and write rubbish to me...

pathetic..

ur an incompetent cnut.. cheers for that matey :thumb:


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> Discussing Israel's withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, when the country pulled out troops and evacuated settlements despite intense domestic opposition, Peres said the Palestinians could have developed the Strip but chose to fire rockets instead.
> 
> "Look, we left Gaza willingly, unilaterally," Peres said. "We handed over to the Palestinians a free, open Gaza. Which is a beautiful strip of a beautiful beach. They could have developed it for tourism, for fishing, for agriculture. We don't understand, frankly, why are they fighting? What are they shooting? What are the reasons? We left. What is the purpose? They want to be free? They are free."
> 
> also http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-myth-of-the-gaza-withdrawal/


Gaza is not the be all end all, how arrogant to assume that the Palestinian people should be satisfied and be grateful to Israel for pulling out of Gaza, I guess if that's the way you feel you would be happy living in your garden shed with your family, while I relax in your jacuzzi and enjoy the rest of your 5 bedroom detached?


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> Gaza is not the be all end all, how arrogant to assume that the Palestinian people should be satisfied and be grateful to Israel for pulling out of Gaza, I guess if that's the way you feel you would be happy living in your garden shed with your family, while I relax in your jacuzzi and enjoy the rest of your 5 bedroom detached?


how does that even make sense?

where do you propose the Israelis live?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> what I cant fathom is how stupid and childish you are.. a neg rep because I don't agree with you and cant be bothered trying to write a load of text so you can just ignore it and write rubbish to me...
> 
> pathetic..
> 
> ur an incompetent cnut.. cheers for that matey :thumb:


you cant be bothered to write a load, but can be bothered to keep replying. your welcome and have a nice day


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> you cant be bothered to write a load, but can be bothered to keep replying. your welcome and have a nice day


replying as I do is not writing a load is it?

and you're welcome too big lad..


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> replying as I do is not writing a load is it?
> 
> and you're welcome too big lad..


its not but if you add them collectively and the time taken to post it will be very similar.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> its not but if you add them collectively and the time taken to post it will be very similar.


aah but you actually read these and make the effort to reply to what I say.. :001_tt2:


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> aah but you actually read these and make the effort to reply to what I say.. :001_tt2:


Indeed i do, some of your posts are quite comical :lol:


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

thanks, I do try.. maybe a career in stand up beckons.. :beer:


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> how does that even make sense?
> 
> where do you propose the Israelis live?


How about they have Gaza and the west bank and the Palestinians have the rest of Palestine? Sound good? That is exactly what your suggesting the Palestinians should settle for.

A more realistic solution would be for the Israelis to abide by international law and the U.N resolutions to afford the Palestinian people its rights and a viable state.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> How about they have Gaza and the west bank and the Palestinians have the rest of Palestine? Sound good? That is exactly what your suggesting the Palestinians should settle for.
> 
> A more realistic solution would be for the Israelis to abide by international law and the U.N resolutions to afford the Palestinian people its rights and a viable state.


I suggest they stop firing rockets and asking for retaliation..

they disagree with what is put forward as breaking the 4th Geneva convention.. until that's agreed they're not going anywhere.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> how does that even make sense?
> 
> where do you propose the Israelis live?


not in someone elses country, would you like it if all the iraqis came and took our country?

They were scattered around the world before and that should have continued, they should not have taken someone elses land. simple as that. Live where ever they live but not in someone elses land.

Would you allow jews to come and kick you out your house and you live in the garden?



Dave1180 said:


> I suggest they stop firing rockets and asking for retaliation..
> 
> they disagree with what is put forward as breaking the 4th Geneva convention.. until that's agreed they're not going anywhere.


again, your posts really are comical. Israel has broken 65 UN resolutions : http://www.darkpolitricks.com/un-resolutions-against-israel/ 65!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Palestine broke 1 geneva convention in retaliation? Israel has broke at least 10: http://itisapartheid.org/Documents_pdf_etc/IsraelViolationsInternationalLaw.pdf

seriously you are mis-educated, can I ask your background and why you have such a strong backing of israel out of general curiosity?


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> not in someone elses country, would you like it if all the iraqis came and took our country?
> 
> They were scattered around the world before and that should have continued, they should not have taken someone elses land. simple as that. Live where ever they live but not in someone elses land.
> 
> ...


but they are there now, so where do you suggest they go to?

2 reasons I am arguing in favour of Israel...

1.. I agree that a country should be able to defend itself from terrorists.

2.. devils advocate


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> I suggest they stop firing rockets and asking for retaliation..


Then Israel will return their land will it?



> they disagree with what is put forward as breaking the 4th Geneva convention.. until that's agreed they're not going anywhere.


I'm not quite sure what you're getting at? Israel has displaced millions of Palestinians and continues with its building of illegal settlements on land they continue to steal from Palestinians.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> Then Israel will return their land will it?
> 
> I'm not quite sure what you're getting at? Israel has displaced millions of Palestinians and continues with its building of illegal settlements on land they continue to steal from Palestinians.


nope but it'll stop the civilians being caught in it all which is the important thing here really.

that's the law that is saying they're in land they shouldn't be..


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> 1.. I agree that a country should be able to defend itself from terrorists.


Yet you don't afford the same right to those who have been occupied and have had their homeland stolen? Do the Palestinians not have a right to defend themselves against Israeli terror and occupation?



> 2.. devils advocate


Well at least argue based on historical facts, rather than what you may have read in the papers.

Do you at least agree that Israel is the aggressor and that the Palestinians are the ones who are defending themselves? If you cant get past that, I see little point in taking this further.


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> nope but it'll stop the civilians being caught in it all which is the important thing here really.
> 
> that's the law that is saying they're in land they shouldn't be..


How do you propose the Palestinians resist the foreign occupation they have been subjected to?

How will the Palestinians get what is rightfully theirs?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> I suggest they stop firing rockets and asking for retaliation..
> 
> they disagree with what is put forward as breaking the 4th Geneva convention.. until that's agreed they're not going anywhere.





Dave1180 said:


> how does that even make sense?
> 
> where do you propose the Israelis live?





Dave1180 said:


> but they are there now, so where do you suggest they go to?
> 
> 2 reasons I am arguing in favour of Israel...
> 
> ...


Hard to say now where they should go, but now they can live alongside palestine in a two state solution that is fair for both sides, but they dont want this.

Israel are the terrorists and need defending from themselves.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

rite so why didn't hamas call the ceasefire earlier?

When israel gave gaza to Palestinians why did Palestinians then start building tunnels to run under israel?

Why did Palestinians hide weapons caches in hospitals and in schools? Human shields? Why are they recklessly endangering innocent kids lives?

you keep saying israels are targetting civilians pretty hard.... if that was the case they were be 100X more deaths.

why did the UK not get involved in that bull**** but in the syria thing instead? Because they know the Palestinians are in the WRONG.....


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

I did some empirical research earlier in 2008 on the cycle of violence between Palestinians and Israelis, and it turned out that it was Palestinians that were attacking Israelis first, but their qassam rockets were so poor they hardly did any damage, when Israeli's did retaliate they smashed Palestinians to pieces for a deterrent effect and an incapacitation effect.

The Raw Data does not lie, read the paper by jager and passerman http://www.djaeger.org/research/pubs/aer2008.pdf


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

and whats with all this bs, ahhh media dont want you to see this, share before facebook takes it down again etc,

its just over sensationalised by facebook share and sh*t just to get more attention.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

so basically fk the hamas militants, they bought it upon themselves.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

whats more pressing the sheer scale of genocide the Islamic state ISIL is committing in Iraq. Convert or Die.

David Cameron and Barrack obama are right in smashing the **** out of the Islamic State militants.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

and yes by the way, I am starting my research thesis on a very similar topic shortly....


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

It is a huge misconception to assume that the Israelis want peace and that its the Palestinians who are opposed to it, the fact is that it is the Israelis who have made unrealistic and unacceptable conditions as a barrier to any lasting solution. Inevitably, Israel will have to give up land it has stolen in order for any meaningful progress to be made, and that is something they are unwilling to do.

One of the sticking points to settling the conflict is the "right of return" issue. The Israelis have a precondition to negotiations, they want the Palestinians to give up *their right to return* before they even enter into negotiations.

How can you expect a people to give up their right before you even sit down to discuss anything?

Going back to the garden shed analogy, that would be like me saying before we even talk about peace you must give up any claim you have to your house, well then what is the point?


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

12 gauge said:


> It is a huge misconception to assume that the Israelis want peace and that its the Palestinians who are opposed to it, the fact is that it is the Israelis who have made unrealistic and unacceptable conditions as a barrier to any lasting solution. Inevitably, Israel will have to give up land it has stolen in order for any meaningful progress to be made, and that is something they are unwilling to do.
> 
> One of the sticking points to settling the conflict is the "right of return" issue. The Israelis have a precondition to negotiations, they want the Palestinians to give up *their right to return* before they even enter into negotiations.
> 
> ...


Palestinians Terrorists were digging tunnels under gaza to Israel with the pure intention to bomb key cities in Israel. So to be honest, using your garden shed analogy, I would happily smash the fk out of your garden shed if it stopped my family and household from being blown up.

It was the Palestinians that did not want peace :

""O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you--then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." - Quran, 5:51"


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> When israel gave gaza to Palestinians why did Palestinians then start building tunnels to run under israel?


Your whole premise is incorrect from the start, Gaza didn't belong to the Israelis for them to "give" it to the Palestinians, they withdrew their occupying forces from a tiny strip of land which is an open air prison, and you expect the Palestinians to be eternally grateful for that?



> Why did Palestinians hide weapons caches in hospitals and in schools? Human shields? Why are they recklessly endangering innocent kids lives?


There is no evidence to suggest they have done any of that, and if you watch the video I posted earlier you'll see that its the cowardly Israelis who use Palestinians as hunman shields



> why did the UK not get involved in that bull**** but in the syria thing instead? Because they know the Palestinians are in the WRONG....


Israel with the backing of the U.S is too powerful for anyone to force them to do anything, U.N resolutions calling on them to abide by international law are constantly vetoed by America.Britain has called upon Israel to abide by international law but the Israelis ignore such calls and have done so for decades, its got f*** all to do with the Palestinians being in the wrong, wrong for wanting to live in peace in their own homeland?


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

12 gauge said:


> Your whole premise is incorrect from the start, Gaza didn't belong to the Israelis for them to "give" it to the Palestinians, they withdrew their occupying forces from a tiny strip of land which is an open air prison, and you expect the Palestinians to be eternally grateful for that?
> 
> There is no evidence to suggest they have done any of that, and if you watch the video I posted earlier you'll see that its the cowardly Israelis who use Palestinians as hunman shields
> 
> Israel with the backing of the U.S is too powerful for anyone to force them to do anything, U.N resolutions calling on them to abide by international law are constantly vetoed by America.Britain has called upon Israel to abide by international law but the Israelis ignore such calls and have done so for decades, its got f*** all to do with the Palestinians being in the wrong, wrong for wanting to live in peace in their own homeland?


they withdrew from the land, but since the Palestinians started using Gaza as a terrorist military area with the main objective to attack Israel, then obviously Israelis would not be happy.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that palestinians are using human shields, see the clips from aircraft gunships.

the US is backing Israel, as they know its the Palestinians that are at fault for using gaza as a terrorist playground.

heres a small quote regarding the hiding of weapons in schools,hospitals,mosques etc

"The United Nations has found troves of rockets hidden in three of its schools since the conflict began. "We condemn the group or groups who endangered civilians by placing these munitions in our school," Chris Gunness, spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, said in statement published Wednesday by the Times of Israel. "This is yet another flagrant violation of the neutrality of our premises. We call on all the warring parties to respect the inviolability of U.N. property."

Earlier this month, the United Nations also found rockets piled inside one of its vacant schools - near other schools used to accommodate displaced people.

"


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

I would like to thank Zak007 for his negative rep he has given me without explanation.

Ps I am happy to continue debating with 12 gauge as he presenting a reasonable case, and not just abusing me like zak007 is.


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> Palestinians Terrorists were digging tunnels under gaza to Israel with the pure intention to bomb key cities in Israel.


You may call it Israel, but as far as the Palestinians are concerned that is their land, and to be frank they are right, it is theirs.



> So to be honest, using your garden shed analogy, I would happily smash the fk out of your garden shed if it stopped my family and household from being blown up.


The fact that your living in a stolen house means nothing to you? So you're a brutal thief who will murder someone and take what belongs to them.



> It was the Palestinians that did not want peace :


Yeah right, to live peacefully all the while being subjugated and occupied, some peace that is.



> ""O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you--then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." - Quran, 5:51"


Not quite sure why you're quoting the Quran, we are talking about the right of the Palestinian people to a viable homeland, but if you want to quote holy books.

Here's some quotes from the Jewish Talmud

Please note that "*****" or "goy" refers to non jews



> "The '*****' are not humans. They are beasts." (Baba Mezia 114b)





> * "If you eat with a 'goy' it is the same as eating with a dog." (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)





> * "Even the best of the '*****' should all be killed." (Soferim 15)





> * "Sexual intercourse between the '*****' is like intercourse between animals." (Sanhedrin 74b)





> * "When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice." (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De 'ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)





> "If a 'goy' (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed." (Sanhedrin 58b)





> "If a Jew finds an object lost by a 'goy' it does not have to be returned." (Baba Mezia 24a)





> * "If a Jew murders a 'goy' there will be no death penalty." (Sanhedrin 57a)





> * What a Jew steals from a 'goy' he may keep." (Sanhedrin 57a)





> * "Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a 'goy.'" (Baba Kamma 113a)





> * "All children of the '*****' (Gentiles) are animals." (Yebamoth 98a)





> * "Girls born of the '*****' are in a state of 'niddah' (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth." (Abodah Zarah 36b)


The list goes on.


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> they withdrew from the land, but since the Palestinians started using Gaza as a terrorist military area with the main objective to attack Israel, then obviously Israelis would not be happy.


We can argue about all this till the cows come home, but the real issue here is who is occupying who, and how do we end the cycle of violence.In order for us to examine these issues we have to look at things holistically and in their proper historical context.

I'm not doubting that the Palestinians have attacked Israeli civilians etc but at the end of the day, they are living under occupation, they have had their homeland taken off them, which just person with any sense of fair play is going to ignore the facts and blame the wronged party and ignore the glaring injustice that has been done to them?


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

12 gauge said:


> You may call it Israel, but as far as the Palestinians are concerned that is their land, and to be frank they are right, it is theirs.
> 
> The fact that your living in a stolen house means nothing to you? So you're a brutal thief who will murder someone and take what belongs to them.
> 
> ...


And that sir, is the point I wanted you to raise. That it is a religious War, you can't ignore it.

If you have a read of Hamas Covenant you will see it to be the case. Yale law school have kindly uploaded it in English :

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Yes i agree it is unfair for the citizens who have been displaced etc, but it is their leader(s) fault.

To be brutally honest, Palestinians cannot win this war, they do not have the power or means to do so, and since its being governed by hamas, a terrorist organization, it will not get any military backing what so ever from the western world.


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> And that sir, is the point I wanted you to raise. That it is a religious War, you can't ignore it.
> 
> If you have a read of Hamas Covenant you will see it to be the case. Yale law school have kindly uploaded it in English :
> 
> ...


Their leaders fault? Their leaders didn't start this whole thing did they? Check the history, the Arabs welcomed the Jews when they first moved there, it was the founders of Israel that started a terror campaign against the British, yes you read that right the British.

The "Irgun" was a Zionist terrorist organisation, it blew up the king David hotel targeting British forces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Please people, research the history of the conflict, to get a better understanding of where we're at today, I'm no expert but the more I read the more it becomes apparent that Israel are the aggressors and the real terrorists in this whole sorry mess.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

12 gauge said:


> Their leaders fault? Their leaders didn't start this whole thing did they? Check the history, the Arabs welcomed the Jews when they first moved there, it was the founders of Israel that started a terror campaign against the British, yes you read that right the British.
> 
> The "Irgun" was a Zionist terrorist organisation, it blew up the king David hotel targeting British forces.
> 
> ...


the same Palestinians who celebrated 9/11:


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

Anyway I'm going to sleep now, will reply tomorrow to anything else


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> the same Palestinians who celebrated 9/11:


Irrelevant really, whats that got to do with, who's right and who's wrong in this particular conflict? The Palestinians weren't responsible for 9/11 were they?

They see America as being a backer of Israel, and indeed it is, I disagree with celebrating the loss of innocent lives but them doing that doesn't make the Israeli occupation right does it?

Anyhow here's a video about Israelis celebrating 9/11, now what?






Here's another video of a jew gloating about killing Jesus.


----------



## romper stomper (Sep 26, 2012)

> Israel were given land that didn't belong to them in 1947 by the british,


why were the British there ??? why was Britain able to do this ?? You lay blame on Britain ??

If Palestine was in control of its own turf then there would be no Israel ???

end of


----------



## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Israel is very smal & they are afraid that unless they keep palestine firmly under their bootheel Palestine will gain power over time and gain allies & crush them like ants.

You can say what you want Muslims are famous for never EVER surrendering. As evident when Russia invaded Afghan or the rest of the world later, as evident in Palestine they will fight & die to the last man woman & child.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> I would like to thank Zak007 for his negative rep he has given me without explanation.
> 
> Ps I am happy to continue debating with 12 gauge as he presenting a reasonable case, and not just abusing me like zak007 is.


I'm going to reply to this later, didn't have time yesterday so I negged instead :lol:


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> I'm going to reply to this later, didn't have time yesterday so I negged instead :lol:


In b4 massive essay :scared:


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> I'm going to reply to this later, didn't have time yesterday so I negged instead :lol:


But that's really pathetic to be honest, you send people red for having a different opinion to you, it's not as if we've given someone bad advice or anything..


----------



## Tonk007 (Jan 1, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Israel is very smal & they are afraid that unless they keep palestine firmly under their bootheel Palestine will gain power over time and gain allies & crush them like ants.
> 
> You can say what you want Muslims are famous for never EVER surrendering. As evident when Russia invaded Afghan or the rest of the world later, as evident in Palestine they will fight & die to the last man woman & child.


Exactly unlike the jewish cowards who are backed by the uk/usa, lets see how tuff israel really are

if they didnt have the support from their cronies lol


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> rite so why didn't hamas call the ceasefire earlier?
> 
> When israel gave gaza to Palestinians why did Palestinians then start building tunnels to run under israel?
> 
> ...


Been busy not had a chance so here we go. I'll address each point in a separate quote to fully answer each question.

Israel havent been to the negotiating table, they often times don't send negotiators and when they do they go there with no aim to call a ceasefire.

when israel gave gaza to palestine? Gaza was never Israel's. *NEVER! * The tunnels are used to bring in supplies, food, materials, arms. Te emphasis placed on food and materials not available due to israel closing border crossings as well as egypt.

Show me evidence for weapons in hospitals and schools, Israeli military have attacked countless places with no weapons caches. There is very little if any targets for the IDF they just shoot and fire at will.

There have been many videos showing israeli soldiers using gazan civillians as human sheilds!

A BBC reporter independently visited gaza and saw no evidence of palestinians used as human sheilds, its total and utter bullsh1t spouted by the IDF to gaim support for their cause.

They are not reckless. Israeli military are, they have countless killed kids purposefully. 4 were shelled on a beach while playing football. Others sniped whilst walking down the street.

UK created israel. Why would they get involved? There is nothing in it for them. America bows down to israel, this is very common knowledge, how is palestine in the wrong?

All your points rasied are all false and this leads me to believe the rest will be the same, i'm sure your israeli judging by your name are you? When you reply address each and every point.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> I did some empirical research earlier in 2008 on the cycle of violence between Palestinians and Israelis, and it turned out that it was Palestinians that were attacking Israelis first, but their qassam rockets were so poor they hardly did any damage, when Israeli's did retaliate they smashed Palestinians to pieces for a deterrent effect and an incapacitation effect.
> 
> The Raw Data does not lie, read the paper by jager and passerman http://www.djaeger.org/research/pubs/aer2008.pdf


Firstly, I didn't read all just the statistics that show palestine attacks higher than israeli's.

Firstly as you are or someone else quoted me before on biast views. One of the writers of the paper wrote for the hebrew university and is israeli. I couldn't find out about the other.

Thus the paper is firstly bias. Second there is no actual reference for the quoted statistics, I searched and just to let you know I have a bachelors degree with a high mark and am undertaking my masters now so I know about referencing and cannot find the reference for said figures.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> and whats with all this bs, ahhh media dont want you to see this, share before facebook takes it down again etc,
> 
> its just over sensationalised by facebook share and sh*t just to get more attention.


just like the IDF post a lot of sh1t on twitter, hamas using civillians as human sheilds and the like? We try to avoid civilian casualties yet they target a UN shelter? Yeah ok........

Its not over sensationalised its the reality of what's actually happening and is being covered up.

There are many atrocities covered up in other countries we don't see on the news and only through things like facebook, liveleak etc.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> whats more pressing the sheer scale of genocide the Islamic state ISIL is committing in Iraq. Convert or Die.
> 
> David Cameron and Barrack obama are right in smashing the **** out of the Islamic State militants.


what has this got to do with it? There is a seperate thread on that, if you want to talk about it go there.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> Palestinians Terrorists were digging tunnels under gaza to Israel with the pure intention to bomb key cities in Israel. So to be honest, using your garden shed analogy, I would happily smash the fk out of your garden shed if it stopped my family and household from being blown up.
> 
> It was the Palestinians that did not want peace :
> 
> ""O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you--then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." - Quran, 5:51"


lmao, I like how your using this quote to try and fit your theology.

Israel did not exist, it is Palestine. The whole of israel belongs to Palestine.

The torah talks about violence too but I won't get into that.

If we look at that verse and analyse it: O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you--then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." - Quran, 5:51"

This does not even support your post, it clearly says do not take them as allies, hamas dont want to be allies with israel. They want their borders opened, allowed to fish in their own seas and allow aid and humanitarian supplies in.

See this link here for Israel's 120 violations of ceasfire: http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-truth-about-cease-fire-violations-between-israel-and-gaza/ *Yes I said 120. In a 54 week period*


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> the same Palestinians who celebrated 9/11:


This shows them celebrating, doesn't show anything to do with 9/11.

*I have posted at least 50 posts in this thread before you came in, if your so hung up on israel being right then REPLY TO MY POST WHICH I HAVE MADE AND PROVE ME WRONG.*


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

romper stomper said:


> why were the British there ??? why was Britain able to do this ?? You lay blame on Britain ??
> 
> If Palestine was in control of its own turf then there would be no Israel ???
> 
> end of


The next time you quote me, tag me at least or quote the full post so I get a notification.

The british had the power of america back then, how it was actually divided I don't know but I suspect through military.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> But that's really pathetic to be honest, you send people red for having a different opinion to you, it's not as if we've given someone bad advice or anything..


I'm free to neg who I feel like. Your last 5 pages of forum posts have all been about politics, more like you don't give any advice unless its political even then your efforts are in vain.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> In b4 massive essay :scared:


Last thing, the jews suffered terribly at the hands of hitler and the nazi's.

What's the difference between Netanyahu the israeli PM and the israeli lobby and hitler and his cronies?

Let me showcase examples:

Here an israeli lawmaker calling for the genocide of palestine: http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-lawmakers-call-genocide-palestinians-gets-thousands-facebook-likes

here is an Israeli professor calling for rape of mothers and daughters: http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-professor-rape-palestinian-sisters-and-mothers-to-stop-terrorism/5392862

An israeli official calling for concentration camps in gaza: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715466/Israeli-official-calls-concentration-camps-Gaza-conquest-entire-Gaza-Strip-annihilation-fighting-forces-supporters.html

Israel's former PM Ariel Sharon (Well known for his public outburts of saying every palestinian should be killed): http://www.rense.com/general58/killins.htm

Ariel Sharon's well known statement against palestine: When little Palestinian girls have become the favorite targets of Israeli snipers, we should pause and try to remember how we got here. Let's sit at the feet of Mr. Sharon and be instructed.

"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> I'm free to neg who I feel like. Your last 5 pages of forum posts have all been about politics, more like you don't give any advice unless its political even then your efforts are in vain.


You go for it if it makes you feel better... Still pathetic though..


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> You go for it if it makes you feel better... Still pathetic though..


as is your attempt at defending israel and crying over a neg. Really? Its an internet forum... Do tell me one piece of good advice you have given in relation to training rather than just involving yourself in politics and general chat threads


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> as is your attempt at defending israel and crying over a neg. Really? Its an internet forum... Do tell me one piece of good advice you have given in relation to training rather than just involving yourself in politics and general chat threads


I came here looking for advice not to give it out...

And your attempt at defending terrorists is also pathetic.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> I came here looking for advice not to give it out...
> 
> And your attempt at defending terrorists is also pathetic.


all the talk but none of the walk, you haven't proved hamas are terroists and can't because its israel who are the real terrorists.


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> And your attempt at defending terrorists is also pathetic.


I hope you don't really believe that, put aside your personal grudge and look at the whole issue rationally, I'm sure you'll see that your statement is unreasonable.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> all the talk but none of the walk, you haven't proved hamas are terroists and can't because its israel who are the real terrorists.


Ok, suicide bombings is not actually something you'd class as terrorism?


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> I hope you don't really believe that, put aside your personal grudge and look at the whole issue rationally, I'm sure you'll see that your statement is unreasonable.


They are terrorists and it's an issue that gets completely ignored when people defend hamas and their tactics.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> Ok, suicide bombings is not actually something you'd class as terrorism?


funny how you never actually reply to any of my posts, because you cant.

Face it israel are the terrorists, palestinians *IF* they do suicide bombings which I haven't seen then it will be very low.

If you want to know about terrorism, look at israel the way they operate and the history of the palestine/israel conflict.

Not one of my posts have you properly replied to, you've not denied or accepted any of the statements I've made yet you try and divert the conversation using poor tactics that fail every time.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> funny how you never actually reply to any of my posts, because you cant.
> 
> Face it israel are the terrorists, palestinians *IF* they do suicide bombings which I haven't seen then it will be very low.
> 
> ...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3256858.stm

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks


----------



## 12 gauge (Jul 16, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> They are terrorists and it's an issue that gets completely ignored when people defend hamas and their tactics.


Terrorism is a relative term, I'm sure you've heard the old saying "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter", I don't agree with the tactics that Hamas employ but that is a side issue, as I stated before, one has to look at the issue in its proper historical context to understand what's really going on over there, by studying history we can get a better understanding of where we're at today and why.

I'm sure every reasonable and fair minded person will agree after having studied the Palestine/Israel issue that Israel are the aggressors in all of this, and it is they who are responsible for the sad situation that exists at present.

I'm sorry but if you cant see simple truths and the clear injustice suffered by the Palestinian people whether they be Palestinian Muslims or the 400,000 Palestinian Christians that have suffered due to the Israeli occupation then i don't know what more I can say that will convince you otherwise. My only advice to you would be to do some research and find the facts for yourself.


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

zak007 said:


> as is your attempt at defending israel and crying over a neg. Really? Its an internet forum... Do tell me one piece of good advice you have given in relation to training rather than just involving yourself in politics and general chat threads


It is just a internet forum, yet you are the one obviously getting upset over it by dishing out loads of negs, can't say I have ever negged a single person on here ever tbh.

Why do you spend so much time on here trying to justify Hamas and condemn what Israel are doing but don't really have much to say with what is going on with ISIS? Or if you do it is to noway near the same magnitude of effort that you put in on here for Israel, its like just a quick sorry about Isis, now lets get back to Israel lol. Even in the "Isis beheading thread" all you are doing is talking about Israel again? So what is it your are trying to do here? Do you not think what you are doing is a tad hypocritical with whats going on with the other parts of the muslim brotherhood?


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

Dave1180 said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3256858.stm
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks


well thats wrong, but it doesnt compare to what israel have done over the last 60 years.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

SSJay said:


> It is just a internet forum, yet you are the one obviously getting upset over it by dishing out loads of negs, can't say I have ever negged a single person on here ever tbh.
> 
> Why do you spend so much time on here trying to justify Hamas and condemn what Israel are doing but don't really have much to say with what is going on with ISIS? Or if you do it is to noway near the same magnitude of effort that you put in on here for Israel, its like just a quick sorry about Isis, now lets get back to Israel lol. Even in the "Isis beheading thread" all you are doing is talking about Israel again? So what is it your are trying to do here? Do you not think what you are doing is a tad hypocritical with whats going on with the other parts of the muslim brotherhood?


i can neg whoever I choose to, why's everyone getting all butthurt over a neg? man up ffs.

If you look through the majority of my posts, its only recently I've started voicing my opinion as I am entitled to do so. If you actually see the other thread I condemned ISIS and dont believe in their cause. Again that is in another thread and you obviously just pick and choose what you want to see. I am talking about israel when people mention palestine/israel. I don't pluck it up out of thin air. Its in response to threads where people randomly storm in with oh XYZ is doing so and so.

As said earlier, this thread firstly is about palestine/israel not isis. I have condemmed ISIS. As I have already said there are many atrocities going on around the world unreported. If you actually read half the stuff you'd see that I post equally in both.

As the palestine/israel conflict is currently very out there I post about it. As do others about ISIS and XYZ peado being outed today in the news and what not.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> Last thing, the jews suffered terribly at the hands of hitler and the nazi's.
> 
> What's the difference between Netanyahu the israeli PM and the israeli lobby and hitler and his cronies?
> 
> ...


"Did Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon vow to burn Palestinian children and rape Arabic girls? Did former Israeli leader Menachem Begin refer to Palestinians as "two-legged beasts," and did another Israeli leader declare that all Arabs must be killed unless they are willing to live as slaves?

No, but given the number of Web sites repeating these allegations, it is easy to see how this nonsense has gained credence. Indeed, the attribution of invidious statements to Israel's leaders has become a popular stratagem among Israel's enemies. Many are fabricated, taken out of context or otherwise manipulated to present a distorted, negative view of Zionist intentions and actions. Propagated on the internet, some of these misquotes eventually make their way into opinion columns in campus newspapers and even, on occasion, the mainstream press.

Take for example, the following quote (found on anti-Israel Web sites) alleged to have been said by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the Israeli parliament in October 2001 and reported on Kol Yisrael radio:

Don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.

The statement also appears as "I control America."

As it turns out, it is a hoax. Sharon never made either statement. Nor did Kol Yisrael ever report that he did.

Yet syndicated columnist Georgie Anne Geyer wrote in her May 10, 2002 opinion column, which appeared in the Chicago Tribune, San Diego Tribune, and other newspapers:

In fact, it [American support for Israel''s actions] led Prime Minister Sharon to tell his Cabinet recently, "I control America."

Where did this quote originate and how did it enter the mainstream media?

CAMERA's investigation found that it started with an October 3, 2001 press release from the pro-Hamas group, IAP - the Islamic Association for Palestine, which attributed the quote to a report on "the Israeli Hebrew radio, Col [sic] Yisrael."

In fact, Kol Yisrael political correspondent Yoni Ben-Menachem, who reports on Cabinet meetings, confirmed to CAMERA that he never made such a broadcast and that Sharon never made such a statement. Nor was it reported by any other news service.

When confronted, Geyer told one editor that she relied on two anonymous Israeli sources for the quotation. She told a second editor the quote came from an alleged Ha'aretz article which she never produced and could not be found. A subsequent editor's note by Geyer's United Press Syndicate claimed the quote was widely reported in the Palestinian press (i.e. the IAP, which cited the bogus Kol Yisrael source) but could not be confirmed by independent sources.

Indeed for many, the Internet has completely replaced libraries, reference books, and original research as a source of information. This reliance on unregulated, unaccountable sources has boosted the proliferation of misinformation and bogus quotes. And when they are repeated by journalists, albeit those with radical anti-Israel agendas, few are willing to search deeper.

The CAMERA staff has researched many of the alleged quotes. Part I of our series on misquotes examines quotes that fall into three categories: 1) fabricated; 2) misattributed and 3) taken out of context.

FABRICATED

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon

I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child's existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian woman is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do.

Source given: Ariel Sharon in an interview with General Ouze Merham in 1956

Investigation: This quote was found on hundreds of Arab Web sites, and indeed, seems to be a a staple of anti-Israel propaganda. It cannot be found, however, in any text book, news article, or published record, nor is there any mention or record of a General Ouze Merham anywhere else. (Another giveaway is that the term "Palestinian" was not in use in 1956. It only came into vogue in the 1960's.)

Student columnist Mariam Sobh used the quote in her December 11, 2003 Daily Illinicolumn, but later had to apologize.

Summary: Fabricated quote, fabricated source.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> Firstly, I didn't read all just the statistics that show palestine attacks higher than israeli's.
> 
> Firstly as you are or someone else quoted me before on biast views. One of the writers of the paper wrote for the hebrew university and is israeli. I couldn't find out about the other.
> 
> Thus the paper is firstly bias. Second there is no actual reference for the quoted statistics, I searched and just to let you know I have a bachelors degree with a high mark and am undertaking my masters now so I know about referencing and cannot find the reference for said figures.


the paper is not bias, its been checked thoroughly to be published by the American Economic Review. And I am starting my masters at lse in conflict studies in September, think I know a bit more about conflict than you do.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> lmao, I like how your using this quote to try and fit your theology.
> 
> Israel did not exist, it is Palestine. The whole of israel belongs to Palestine.
> 
> ...


What a BS website, http://antiwar.com/, please quote from a non bias website.


----------



## T100 (Oct 8, 2011)

Ironic that this thread seems to have started confrontation between people with a difference of opinion


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> just like the IDF post a lot of sh1t on twitter, hamas using civillians as human sheilds and the like? We try to avoid civilian casualties yet they target a UN shelter? Yeah ok........
> 
> Its not over sensationalised its the reality of what's actually happening and is being covered up.
> 
> There are many atrocities covered up in other countries we don't see on the news and only through things like facebook, liveleak etc.


It really is over reported on every page of social media, you don't see the genocide by the ISIS being force fed on every page on social media websites even though that has way way way more deaths and is more violent.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> what has this got to do with it? There is a seperate thread on that, if you want to talk about it go there.


a lot.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> well thats wrong, but it doesnt compare to what israel have done over the last 60 years.


okay so bbc is incorrect, but your "data" from a joe blogs website is correct. Cool story bro, nice one, I really do like the reliability of your sources.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

zak007 said:


> well thats wrong, but it doesnt compare to what israel have done over the last 60 years.


Hahahahaha!! such a great argument there, you really out did yourself.

I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore... you're a joke.


----------



## dave1180 (Aug 19, 2009)

12 gauge said:


> Terrorism is a relative term, I'm sure you've heard the old saying "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter", I don't agree with the tactics that Hamas employ but that is a side issue, as I stated before, one has to look at the issue in its proper historical context to understand what's really going on over there, by studying history we can get a better understanding of where we're at today and why.
> 
> I'm sure every reasonable and fair minded person will agree after having studied the Palestine/Israel issue that Israel are the aggressors in all of this, and it is they who are responsible for the sad situation that exists at present.
> 
> I'm sorry but if you cant see simple truths and the clear injustice suffered by the Palestinian people whether they be Palestinian Muslims or the 400,000 Palestinian Christians that have suffered due to the Israeli occupation then i don't know what more I can say that will convince you otherwise. My only advice to you would be to do some research and find the facts for yourself.


the trouble is it's their tactics that are the reason it's taken so long for them to get any real support... Who in their right mind wants to be seen supporting terrorists? They have stopped with those tactics to a certain extent which is why now you see this all over the news and Israel being condemned for it's part in it.

Neither side are innocent.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

aman_21 said:


> It really is over reported on every page of social media, you don't see the genocide by the ISIS being force fed on every page on social media websites even though that has way way way more deaths and is more violent.


This thread isn't about ISIS, your simply trying to divert attention to another group.



aman_21 said:


> okay so bbc is incorrect, but your "data" from a joe blogs website is correct. Cool story bro, nice one, I really do like the reliability of your sources.


Where did I quote that was wrong.



Dave1180 said:


> the trouble is it's their tactics that are the reason it's taken so long for them to get any real support... Who in their right mind wants to be seen supporting terrorists? They have stopped with those tactics to a certain extent which is why now you see this all over the news and Israel being condemned for it's part in it.
> 
> Neither side are innocent.





aman_21 said:


> "Did Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon vow to burn Palestinian children and rape Arabic girls? Did former Israeli leader Menachem Begin refer to Palestinians as "two-legged beasts," and did another Israeli leader declare that all Arabs must be killed unless they are willing to live as slaves?
> 
> No, but given the number of Web sites repeating these allegations, it is easy to see how this nonsense has gained credence. Indeed, the attribution of invidious statements to Israel's leaders has become a popular stratagem among Israel's enemies. Many are fabricated, taken out of context or otherwise manipulated to present a distorted, negative view of Zionist intentions and actions. Propagated on the internet, some of these misquotes eventually make their way into opinion columns in campus newspapers and even, on occasion, the mainstream press.
> 
> ...


You and dave both pick and choose arguements, I asked whats the difference between the nazis and netanyahu and his goverment?

its well known that israel can easily have america back them, this is netanyahu on video talking about getting support from america :






I rest my case now.


----------



## robbo9 (Mar 24, 2012)

Wow some of you are taking this to heart too much. As someone living in israel i think its good to see people talk about things like this good and bad on both sides. People are right to their opinion even if others disagree. But please dont let this kind of feedback get inside your heads.

End of the day this website is to guide and help others with questions so just try be civil with opininions and dont overact


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

its well known that israel can easily have america back them, this is netanyahu on video talking about getting support from america :






I rest my case now.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

zak007 said:


> This thread isn't about ISIS, your simply trying to divert attention to another group.
> 
> Where did I quote that was wrong.
> 
> ...


youtube clip of a family eating lunch in their living room


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

SSJay said:


> its well known that israel can easily have america back them, this is netanyahu on video talking about getting support from america :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How do we no that that video isn't being dubbed by somebody who is incredibly biased like yourself and being taken completely out of context? Any jews on here for confirmation?

The Quran for example, I can completely take that out of context (and ALOT of parts in context too lol) to show Islam in a extremely bad light. And this is a book that ALL muslims have to follow as it is the word of god in their eyes.

Basically the point I am trying to make is that video doesn't prove much because you have shown how biased you are towards the muslim brotherhood. hardly nothing about Isis in comparison to Israel and nothing but positive things towards hamas and the palestinians, and nothing but negs towards Israel and negs towards posters that have anything bad to say about hamas lol.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Israel are ****ers, that's for sure. But for me and everyone else in the UK it's just something we see on tv or on the internet. It's not our fight, and I know for a fact 99.9% of British people wouldn't lift a finger to help these people and I don't blame them. You can't protect the world. These things happen. And if anyone calls me cruel for saying that, sweet, go and help the Palestinians yourself. Oh yeah, thought so, you're not going to. You're happy for someone else to do it and risk their life though.


----------



## josephbloggs (Sep 29, 2013)

EpicSquats said:


> Israel are ****ers, that's for sure. But for me and everyone else in the UK it's just something we see on tv or on the internet. It's not our fight, and I know for a fact 99.9% of British people wouldn't lift a finger to help these people and I don't blame them. You can't protect the world. These things happen. And if anyone calls me cruel for saying that, sweet, go and help the Palestinians yourself. Oh yeah, thought so, you're not going to. You're happy for someone else to do it and risk their life though.


well life would be pretty boring if we never discussed anything that doesn't have a direct effect on our lives wouldn't it? anyway it's not about anyone having to "go and help". politicians want votes so they get power, if public opinion in the west grows greatly towards stopping what israel is doing in palestine, foreign policy will change. it was the same with apartheid in SA, eventually public opinion forced western governments to isolate the apartheid regime and it couldn't survive. publicly discussing these issues raises awareness which eventually can lead to changes being made.


----------



## SSJay (Feb 11, 2011)

zak007 said:


> As can I show the bible and the torah (Juadiasm book) in a bad light. As you said though its out of context so not really showing it in any light to those who have sense.
> 
> What has that video got to do with the muslim brotherhood? Nothing. It doesn't say it. That video shows from the horses mouth itself. I spoke about ISIS in another thread.


Trust me when I say this, I can show the Quran in a bad way FAR further then you could the bible lol so lets not go down that route, Jihad alone and what it tells Muslims to do is more then enough proof that is needed. Jesus doesn't tell Christians to go out fight and kill the unbelievers, he tells them to love thy enemy, this is the main reason lands mostly populated with Christians have so many Muslims in them and not the other way around. You don't have to pay a humiliation tax and be treated as second class citizen in this country as we would if we were in Muslim ruled ones, also known as a tax called the jizyah.

Anyway back to my original point on the video above, you say we can hear what he is saying right from the horses mouth? That's my point! we can hear him but we DON'T know what he is saying lol, for the simple fact that we don't speak Hebrew, all we can see is what the person who has subbed it wants us to read what he is saying. And whats to say the guy who has subbed it isn't biased against Israel and has taken what he has said out of context? Basically that video or the guy subbing it cannot be taken as gospel like you are trying to make out.


----------



## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

SSJay said:


> Trust me when I say this, I can show the Quran in a bad way FAR further then you could the bible lol so lets not go down that route, Jihad alone and what it tells Muslims to do is more then enough proof that is needed. Jesus doesn't tell Christians to go out fight and kill the unbelievers, he tells them to love thy enemy, this is the main reason lands mostly populated with Christians have so many Muslims in them and not the other way around. You don't have to pay a humiliation tax and be treated as second class citizen in this country as we would if we were in Muslim ruled ones, also known as a tax called the jizyah.
> 
> Anyway back to my original point on the video above, you say we can hear what he is saying right from the horses mouth? That's my point! we can hear him but we DON'T know what he is saying lol, for the simple fact that we don't speak Hebrew, all we can see is what the person who has subbed it wants us to read what he is saying. And whats to say the guy who has subbed it isn't biased against Israel and has taken what he has said out of context? Basically that video or the guy subbing it cannot be taken as gospel like you are trying to make out.


I can prove any other book in a far worse light, but thats not what this thread is about. Please do stop with the threats :lol: first you say you lets not go down that route then continue to talk about it? :lol:

It was clearly someone with understanding of hebrew who translated it.

Just before I post this, I hate the DM : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2739781/Israel-fire-largest-West-Bank-land-grab-30-years-soldiers-swoop-1-000-acres-Palestinian-territory.html

But Israel are at it again seizing more land. This time from the west bank.


----------



## aman_21 (Jul 29, 2013)

As i've said before Israel are just far too strong mate.


----------

