# HGH and insulin



## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

I've been reading up quite a bit on using insulin and am looking to start a 6 week course in the new year. If possible could some of you let me know what you think of the following protocol:

Wake up: 4ius Insulin with 40g whey and 40g dextrose and 25mcg T3

An hour later 4ius Omnitrope

All other meals as usual

PWO: 4ius Insulin with 40g whey and 40g dextrose and 25mcg T3

An hour later a meal with at least 40g protein and 40g low GI carbs

I would increase my slin upto 10ius over the 6 weeks if I'm not too sensitive with it. Also would take it only on training days and the same with the HGH.

I'm looking at putting size on with this but little fat. Would this protocol work?

Also, I'm thinking of 6 weeks of this and then 6 weeks of AAS straight after it. What you think?

Furthermore, I have about 140g fats a day which come from Natural peanut butter and a almonds. Do I need to lower this?

Cheers


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Cheers for the reply Empire. I'll drop the PB and keep the almonds 4 hours after my first shot of slin. My idea regarding AAS was either run it after 6 weeks of GH and slin, or run it alongside it and have 500mg test e and 300mg of tren e for 8 weeks. What peptides did you run? IGF-1? GHRP-6? I usually have around 500g carbs low-moderate carbs, so would i keep these in as well as the dextrose that i have with the slin?


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Also,would you use creatine with the slin?


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> Also,would you use creatine with the slin?


Yes mate, in your pwo shake, 10g creatine, glutamine also useful if on hand.

On your proposed cycle you will definetelyfeel very full and constantly pumped, i always take my 2nd ppwo shaketo the gym also in case i (as daft as it sounds) break down, get stuck in trafic...etc....just forward think, cos you'll know when ur going hypo but its not a great feeling, a full fat can of coke kept in our bag or car will always be a safe bet too just in case.


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jim78 said:


> Yes mate, in your pwo shake, 10g creatine, glutamine also useful if on hand.
> 
> On your proposed cycle you will definetelyfeel very full and constantly pumped, i always take my 2nd ppwo shaketo the gym also in case i (as daft as it sounds) break down, get stuck in trafic...etc....just forward think, cos you'll know when ur going hypo but its not a great feeling, a full fat can of coke kept in our bag or car will always be a safe bet too just in case.


So you have one shake with your insulin and then your normal post workout shake a little after? I'm gonna get some glucose tablets and carry a couple of bottles of dextrose in the car.

How many ius were you taking in growth and slin? Did you run any peptides?


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Cheers empire. I actually did start reading that thread but stopped when you two started bickering!

I'll skip past and read the rest and I'll read the other threads


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Lol if you dnt want fat gain have a strict liquid diet for 3hr? Were did you get this from?

So if I had 10 egg whites and 100g oats 1hr after my pw shake I'll get fat?

What about oats and whey shake? What's diff?

The oats and Whey that id drink will have a a few g fat in both but the egg whites have trace fat and oats a few g fat... If any thing the solid egg whites and oats will be better?

Just avoid fat around the time of insulin would surly be the best advice?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

You feel the pulse is the same as 4-6iu gh...

What do you base that on bud?

Not picking or niggling at ya just curious to know how you come to that conclusion?

4-6iu of what gh, Pharma, hygs, rips, kigs..... All diff and who knows what's under dosed? 4-6iu pharma would feel much diff to say hygs?

How do you genuinely know what 4-6iu gh feels like?

If it's cts then ghrp/cjc causes more water retention then gh (so iv found) and this can cause tingly fingers etc?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> Not egg whites, you'll kill somebody with your gas!! Might as well add some skim milk and clear out the village...Nut egg whites are liquid last I checked champ.
> 
> But the liquid diet for the first 3 meals is not my idea...but along comes another bb'er...The idea is that the whey/dex/oats w/ water are the optimal and easiest to digest, and it also fill you up so you don't eat what you shouldn't...again, you're bb'er, I am a pl'er after pure strength, not bulk, I don;t give a fcuk about bulk, I need to stay in weight class...anyways, it did the job for me, I hit PBs on 2 of my lifts, my weight stayed exactly the same and I dropped 1.5% bf...so something sure worked... I ate hardly any carbs during the day, I did HIIT cardio after my training, I was extremely glycogen depleted, and I took NOTHING in but whey, the best high GI and the best low GI carbs, that was it until the 3 hour mark. At the 3hour mark I then ate 250 grams of chicken breast...it was all clock work...(sometimes I had 250 grams of tuna). So I shoved in about 400 grams of protein over the 4 hours. And I didn't gain a drop of fat, I gained about 6lbs LBM in 4 weeks...all this while not on anabolics...really don't care who doesn't agree with it...it worked a treat for me.


Well I need to stay in a weight class too.

6lb lbm in 4wks? Lbm? 6lb? 4wks? That's amazing! Most ppl dnt add that in a yr!


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> So you have one shake with your insulin and then your normal post workout shake a little after? I'm gonna get some glucose tablets and carry a couple of bottles of dextrose in the car.
> 
> How many ius were you taking in growth and slin? Did you run any peptides?


my personal pref, which has worked for me bud....is pwo; 50g protein/80g dextrose/10g creatine - 8iu's slin (i like to take mine IM so down the shake straight away........then approx 1 hour after....50g protein (whey) 50g oats......then around 1 and a half after that i might have a chicken breast and 50g cooked rice......thats JMO though mate but works nicely, and i don't spill over, by the looks of you, you will wanna be careful with the carbs too as ur very lean.......ppl get just s fat with excess carbs aswell as fat within the 4 hours afterwards....imo. Oh and i take my gh either with slin after training or when i get home (30mins) if i run slin on a morning i use exact same regime....


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jim78 said:


> my personal pref, which has worked for me bud....is pwo; 50g protein/80g dextrose/10g creatine - 8iu's slin (i like to take mine IM so down the shake straight away........then approx 1 hour after....50g protein (whey) 50g oats......then around 1 and a half after that i might have a chicken breast and 50g cooked rice......thats JMO though mate but works nicely, and i don't spill over, by the looks of you, you will wanna be careful with the carbs too as ur very lean.......ppl get just s fat with excess carbs aswell as fat within the 4 hours afterwards....imo. Oh and i take my gh either with slin after training or when i get home (30mins) if i run slin on a morning i use exact same regime....


So do you only shoot slin once a day? Also I'm not that lean at the moment unfortunately! That was back in June and ive been bulking since september. I'll try what you're saying and see how I get on. Cheers Jim.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> I've been reading up quite a bit on using insulin and am looking to start a 6 week course in the new year. If possible could some of you let me know what you think of the following protocol:
> 
> Wake up: 4ius Insulin with 40g whey and 40g dextrose and 25mcg T3
> 
> ...


1. Do 'slin EOD, for no more than a month.. the benefits decline fast otherwise (you lose sensitivity)

2. after your month on 'slin, do a month on metformin to get sensitivity back.

3. take 1iu 'slin for every 10kg body mass; 3x day when on.

4. Drop your fats to 50g/day... and not around the time you pin slin..

5. use only novorapid or humalog.

6. T3- only gets absorbed properly on an emty stomach (ph closer to neutral- eating releases more acid). take it ALL in the morning on empty stomach, 30mins before eating. It has a half life of 2.5 days, pointless splitting it anyway..

T3 and HGH will not go anywhere near keeping you lean- empire is on the right track with careful monitoring of BG and adjusting carbs down from 10g/iu slin.

However, the only way of really keeping lean when taking 'slin is DNP, and no, its not just me saying that, some quite famous trainers like Paul Borreson:

http://www.bio-freak.com/members/2011/09/the-get-big-at-all-costs-stack-by-paul-borresen/


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> So do you only shoot slin once a day? Also I'm not that lean at the moment unfortunately! That was back in June and ive been bulking since september. I'll try what you're saying and see how I get on. Cheers Jim.


il be honest mate, i tried it 3 times a day and tbh was just as full and pumped as taking just PWO, but then again the 8iu's slin x 3 per day wasn't for a long period, just got fed up of nearly 6 shakes per day plus 3 proper meals, il give it one thing........it does make u eat clean and properly even when bulking cos for me personally, im **** scared of getting too fat as too lazy to be hardcore when dieting lol

it needs respect but its a piece of **** and safe mate, just keep some dex tabs like u say or can of pop, strength and fullness are something to look forward to if running decent gh in the mix too, id run with AAS too though, no reason why, just would imo.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ps; i got a fair bit of good advice off Aus about it too


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> 1. Do 'slin EOD, for no more than a month.. the benefits decline fast otherwise (you lose sensitivity)
> 
> 2. after your month on 'slin, do a month on metformin to get sensitivity back.
> 
> ...


I've been looking at using DNP but not until I start cutting in March. So would you take 50mcg of T3 first thing, then pin the slin, then my shake? Or do I need to wait a while to do the slin and shake so that the T3 has digested?

Regarding the metformin would I take this once a day?


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jim78 said:


> il be honest mate, i tried it 3 times a day and tbh was just as full and pumped as taking just PWO, but then again the 8iu's slin x 3 per day wasn't for a long period, just got fed up of nearly 6 shakes per day plus 3 proper meals, il give it one thing........it does make u eat clean and properly even when bulking cos for me personally, im **** scared of getting too fat as too lazy to be hardcore when dieting lol
> 
> it needs respect but its a piece of **** and safe mate, just keep some dex tabs like u say or can of pop, strength and fullness are something to look forward to if running decent gh in the mix too, id run with AAS too though, no reason why, just would imo.


As I'll be doing it for 4 weeks after what Aus said I might use Prop and do about 400mg a week of it.

I'm like you, I am **** scared of getting fat and am gutted that I've lost my abs the last couple of weeks! Personally I prefer dieting then bulking as I lose my fat head and look better!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> I've been looking at using DNP but not until I start cutting in March. So would you take 50mcg of T3 first thing, then pin the slin, then my shake? Or do I need to wait a while to do the slin and shake so that the T3 has digested?
> 
> Regarding the metformin would I take this once a day?


don't fool yourself.. DNP will not cut you up on 'slin....

as an example when I do 'slin 3x day at 10iu each shot, the shakes give me an extra 400g of carbs, and 300g of protein on those days (over my regular food!) yes, its very anabolic... but without the DNP.. watch your waistline explode...

T3 all in the morn. 50mcg is fine- wont keep you lean, but will help protein synthesis..

You have no idea how powerfull insulin is- its EXTREMELY anabolic, BUT its PRIMARILY a STORAGE hormone... ie. fat goes on fast...

metformin, 500mg with each main meal so 3x day.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Fu*k me my head hurts right now !!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> il be honest mate, i tried it 3 times a day and tbh was just as full and pumped as taking just PWO, but then again the 8iu's slin x 3 per day wasn't for a long period, just got fed up of nearly 6 shakes per day plus 3 proper meals, il give it one thing........it does make u eat clean and properly even when bulking cos for me personally, im **** scared of getting too fat as too lazy to be hardcore when dieting lol
> 
> it needs respect but its a piece of **** and safe mate, just keep some dex tabs like u say or can of pop, strength and fullness are something to look forward to if running decent gh in the mix too, id run with AAS too though, no reason why, just would imo.


yeah... i've been putting of my next 'slin run too.... LOL was well jacked with downing all the shakes... cant bring myself to do it while at work... always feel so FULL in the stomach!



Empire Boy said:


> The liquid diet for the first 3 hours is also from biofreak.
> 
> Article by Rea on the peptides and how much natty GH they can release:
> 
> http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/rea/021211.htm


excellent! Borreson and Rea are always good to read!


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> As I'll be doing it for 4 weeks after what Aus said I might use Prop and do about 400mg a week of it.
> 
> I'm like you, I am **** scared of getting fat and am gutted that I've lost my abs the last couple of weeks! Personally I prefer dieting then bulking as I lose my fat head and look better!


just get your head around its only water mate - it will only take a week or two to look sharp again if you keep checking bodyfat so u don't stray too far from 10% or so.

the dnp is a safeguard from getting fat in essence as its meant to block fat entering fat cells by all accounts, how true this is.....no idea but must have some effect.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> yeah... i've been putting of my next 'slin run too.... LOL was well jacked with downing all the shakes... cant bring myself to do it while at work... always feel so FULL in the stomach!
> 
> excellent! Borreson and Rea are always good to read!


Aus, i tried and failed lol, i followed ur text and thought...how the fuk does he do this lol


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

the only meal when i use slin that is void of fat is the one i use slin with....all depends on the person on how much fat youl gain,i frequently eat mcdonalds within that 4 hour window of my last slin shot of the day and didnt gain any fat


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

and none of my meals are liquid meals...


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> good for you stud.


you seem to think that there is only one way of doing things....every thing you have said about slin...with me personally is wrong and im sure theres more people just like me so take that into consideration before you post empty boy


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Gee-bol said:


> and none of my meals are liquid meals...


ur quite lucky then bud as anything u eat when slin is taken and peaking will be attempted to be forced into the muscle and stored, read the link Ausbuilt posted about borressens view on it.......makes a lot of sense.

insulin is a storage hormone, it isn't picky, it stores what u eat in the 4 hour window literally, its good if it works for u, but plenty need to be aware about getting big, and very fat with it thats all.


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

Jim78 said:


> ur quite lucky then bud as anything u eat when slin is taken and peaking will be attempted to be forced into the muscle and stored, read the link Ausbuilt posted about borressens view on it.......makes a lot of sense.
> 
> insulin is a storage hormone, it isn't picky, it stores what u eat in the 4 hour window literally, its good if it works for u, but plenty need to be aware about getting big, and very fat with it thats all.


thats my point everyones different.....my body doesnt store fat really,yes my gains take a tad longer than everyone elses but theres always lean no matter what i eat,even on slin and i sure theres more people like me out there


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Gee-bol said:


> thats my point everyones different.....my body doesnt store fat really,yes my gains take a tad longer than everyone elses but theres always lean no matter what i eat,even on slin and i sure theres more people like me out there


a pic is worth a thousand words....

most on here who've commented.. including the OP have their avi up...


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> Ok big man. I'll eat mcdonalds like you next time I'm on slin. muppet.


you try eating 8000 kcals and see you get on without a bit of junk,its impossible and when slin is used 3x daily its gotta be within one of them windows


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> :whistling: what are you, a fcuking elephant? Or Grimmace? That's it, you're Grimmace.


nah im your dad


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Come one chaps dont ruin the thread...


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## GoHeavy (Jul 12, 2011)

Liam, im thinking of running same protocol in new year( as per pms sent to u).. Have u decided agaist the dnp? What id like to know is whats the ample cal intake per day, do i use the usual calculations? Also, would sub q be better than im?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Gee-bol said:


> you try eating 8000 kcals and see you get on without a bit of junk,its impossible and when slin is used 3x daily its gotta be within one of them windows


actually.. I do well over 10,000cals every sunday.. its my refeed day- fats at 5%... no junk at all... even my icecream is carte d'or, light! (5g/fat 100).


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> actually.. I do well over 10,000cals every sunday.. its my refeed day- fats at 5%... no junk at all... even my icecream is carte d'or, light! (5g/fat 100).


im sure doing that every day though you would have to put some junk in somewhere,i literally wudnt have enough time in my day to eat the amount of clean food i would need to suit my needs


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> But I went from 204lbs 25% in April 2011 to 211lbs 11% November 2011, and then after 4 weeks of slin I was 211lbs 9.5% (the avi I am 11%). So the slin cycle was another 2 lbs of LBM to what, 35 LBM that I gained from April to Nov 2011, now end of Dec 2011 I have gained 37 LBM. So 6lb LBM is a walk in the park :whistling:


37lb in under a yr? Lbm? Imposs lol


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

GoHeavy said:


> Liam, im thinking of running same protocol in new year( as per pms sent to u).. Have u decided agaist the dnp? What id like to know is whats the ample cal intake per day, do i use the usual calculations? Also, would sub q be better than im?


I'm doing the DNP when cutting mate so in march/April. Won't be doing slin with it just some onerip, T3 and clen. If your wanting to cut using is then read what Empire Boy has said as he seems to of used it to lean up


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Gee-bol said:


> im sure doing that every day though you would have to put some junk in somewhere,i literally wudnt have enough time in my day to eat the amount of clean food i would need to suit my needs


now my sunday revolves around eating! i LIVE FOR IT! LOL.. but no, couldn't do it daily...



big_jim_87 said:


> 37lb in under a yr? Lbm? Imposs lol


def possible with 'slin/dnp/AAS/T3 if done right.. Borreson and A.L Rea have documented similar.



liam0810 said:


> I'm doing the DNP when cutting mate so in march/April. Won't be doing slin with it just some onerip, T3 and clen. If your wanting to cut using is then read what Empire Boy has said as he seems to of used it to lean up


one rip is pointless- doesn't make you lean.. its a marketing name! LOL


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

37lb lbm lbm? not fat, not water, 100% lbm in 8months? Imposs.

If you think it was 37lb of muscle you are kidding your self bud.

10lb in a yr is good gains! 37lb of actual muscle in 8months is probably the best genetics in the world lol

Carlsburg don't do bber's but if they did.... Lol!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

If this is the case I'll pay you to do my off season prep?

If I could add 37lb on my to the package I last took to the stage and be a little drier I'd be getting my pro card! Lol! So I'll pay you £4,000 to get me 37lb lbm more in 8months but if you can't deliver you pay me?

That's 500 per month if you can deliver, ether of you two interested?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> If this is the case I'll pay you to do my off season prep?
> 
> If I could add 37lb on my to the package I last took to the stage and be a little drier I'd be getting my pro card! Lol! So I'll pay you £4,000 to get me 37lb lbm more in 8months but if you can't deliver you pay me?
> 
> That's 500 per month if you can deliver, ether of you two interested?


spend the 4 grand on extra food jim,you might actually grow lol.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> LBM change buddy, think about it. Do. the. math. Simple.


Lol what math?

I'm not the smartest guy for sure but I learnt actual math at school not this crazy made up since for the insane! Lol!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> But look, I'm not going to argue with you. It really doesn't matter to me if you think it happened or not. All I know is that 10 months ago I was fat, 25-26% bf, 204lbs, and today I am 209-10lbs and 9.5%, whatever that equals in terms of LBM, that is what I did. Sorry if you don't like it :-((


Lol I love it bud

Thing is you basically said you had gained 37lb of lbm in 8 months, my point is I think you have made a mistake some were in your calculations as it would be imposs...

I'll try find it but I think I read (or it maybe on one of his dvd's) Jay cutler from 17-21 gained some thing like 30-50 odd lb (sorry this is a bit sketchy I'll let you know what he said when I find it) now cutler has poss some if the best genetics in the world and he grew like crazy in 1st few yrs but even he didn't gain that kinda weight in 8 months lol


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

mal said:


> spend the 4 grand on extra food jim,you might actually grow lol.


I can't I'm skint lol I ain't got 4 grand! But I thought I was on to a dead sert of making 4 grand when it didn't work lol but if it did I'd gladly find the cash for 37lb lbm! Lol


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> I can't I'm skint lol I ain't got 4 grand! But I thought I was on to a dead sert of making 4 grand when it didn't work lol but if it did I'd gladly find the cash for 37lb lbm! Lol


im sure dutch could gain 50 lbm lean a shreaded in a year,all on his arms

and delts tho lol.


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## tprice (Aug 28, 2011)

empire - wouldnt worry about what you gained, the results in that time are amazing! just seen the pics!

keep it up in 2012!!

i need advice on how to use slin + aas for bulking. already know about aas, unsure about the slin + wont be happening for a long time yet!


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> one rip is pointless- doesn't make you lean.. its a marketing name! LOL


Ok I'll stick to test p and tren a then. Or would you suggest anything else?


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

Empire Boy said:


> No goddamit. I want somebody to tell big jim, somebody he'll believe, what my goddamn LBM gain was since April 2011. If its not 37lbs, then tell me how to figure out what it is going from 25% 204lbs to 9.5%bf 210lbs. What was my LBM change? Aus, Paul? Can you tell big jim what it was?


we havent agreed on much but i agree with you here...thats gotta be lbm gain of 37 lb if the figures are correct,your also right bout it being harder to do it again now your leaner


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Was the bf % clipped?

Yea if the figures you gave us are correct (not saying you bs ing us but maybe made a mistake)

If not and all correct then yea well done bud


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> Yes, and Aus, a pretty respected member would be able to vouch for me (I hope we would) that the pictures, the time period and the changes are all legit. Sorry big jim but you are wrong full stop. I'll take your apology whenever you are ready


wow... what happens when you go to train and come back...

some members on here have had amazing fat loss.... hotdog147 has also gone from 26% down to 8% or so in the past year... but he didnt gain the LBM that empire did, or me for that matter.... reason is... both empire and i where pretty aggressive with the slin/AAS/T3/DNP in a pretty committed way.. that not many do...

i did, do my most serious dieting using 'slin... and most say you can't... I also used well over 3.5g of AAS.. and a 400-600mg/DNP on slin... and yes you can completely negate the fat gain...

Fact is if you read the science... you can make amazing progress using protocols... I'm shooting to go from 8% and 104kg I am now to 5% and 107-110 by june... its not fast.. but i will be using 'slin and DNP to get leaner and in crease LBM... and the high dose of t3+t4 and dnp also increase receptor turnover.. as your LBM starts to increase well above your genetic set point.. big gains get harder..

in an 11month period I went from 105kg and 24.7% (LBM= 79kg) to 104kg and 8% (LBM = 95.68) which is an LBM increase of 16.68g or 36.6lb while decreasing fat 16.7%. Thats rough figures from memory, I've previously posted the exact figures. I may started measuring at 107kg and 24.7 rather than 105.. i dont have the printout from the dr's with me... but its still over 30lb of LBM gain in 11months..

but like i've said.. easy to improve of a low base.. i think I could do another 20lb this year... but not keep my job as a banker, as I'd just be to odd in teh office..


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## Sureno (Feb 8, 2011)

when i can get back into the gym, going to try tomorrow but think il black out lol im doing this, its taken months to get my head round losing bulk and keeping lean but im going to follow advice aus gave me and clean my diet, follow the right meds and do the training.

great thread (im dreading doing slin agin as i hated the metformin after lol)


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## Sureno (Feb 8, 2011)

Empire Boy said:


> Your inches away from being an absolute cut beast of man Sureno!


lol it all went down the toilet with the rest of my innards, had gastro and been bed ridden for 4/5 days!!! back on it though and on this cutting vibe, may be tapping you and aus up for help occasionally :beer:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Sureno said:


> when i can get back into the gym, going to try tomorrow but think il black out lol im doing this, its taken months to get my head round losing bulk and keeping lean but im going to follow advice aus gave me and clean my diet, follow the right meds and do the training.
> 
> great thread (im dreading doing slin agin as i hated the metformin after lol)


watch out sureno, when you're cut... you'll have to prove to the local imam that you CAN in fact afford the extra 3 wanna be wives chasing you ;-)


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## Sureno (Feb 8, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> watch out sureno, when you're cut... you'll have to prove to the local imam that you CAN in fact afford the extra 3 wanna be wives chasing you ;-)


il have to become a stripper to pay the bills then, only fair i think  an ugly one but hey needs must lol


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## animal adam (Sep 1, 2010)

**** me I'm getting on the gh and slin!!!!!


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## GoHeavy (Jul 12, 2011)

liam0810 said:


> I'm doing the DNP when cutting mate so in march/April. Won't be doing slin with it just some onerip, T3 and clen. If your wanting to cut using is then read what Empire Boy has said as he seems to of used it to lean up


Enough said mate. I think ill use prop prim or mast along with dnp.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

liam0810 said:


> Ok I'll stick to test p and tren a then. Or would you suggest anything else?


I usually agree with Aus, but i have to disagree with him re; 1rip.....the tren and mast literally pull water out of me and make me appear tighter, when i run long esters even with same diet and letro or adex i always hold water and can look bloated. Thats my own experience though, everyone different.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> I usually agree with Aus, but i have to disagree with him re; 1rip.....the tren and mast literally pull water out of me and make me appear tighter, when i run long esters even with same diet and letro or adex i always hold water and can look bloated. Thats my own experience though, everyone different.


OK. all i meant is one rip doesn't rip you up- if you claim it pulls water of- fine, i won't argue (I may think its impossible as ester lenght has nothing to do with the ability to hold glycogen in the muscle.. or retain Na...); my point was people take one rip thinking it makes them leaner.. it doesnt help fat loss.. and masteron has no "hardening" effect unless you're already ripped.. its just an androgen...

comp BBs take androgens like mast or halo for "hardness" its more about having intra cellular water and no sub-q water.. but this isnt even an issue until already ripped..


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> OK. all i meant is one rip doesn't rip you up- if you claim it pulls water of- fine, i won't argue (I may think its impossible as ester lenght has nothing to do with the ability to hold glycogen in the muscle.. or retain Na...); my point was people take one rip thinking it makes them leaner.. it doesnt help fat loss.. and masteron has no "hardening" effect unless you're already ripped.. its just an androgen...
> 
> comp BBs take androgens like mast or halo for "hardness" its more about having intra cellular water and no sub-q water.. but this isnt even an issue until already ripped..


agreed certainly does not rip or lean anyone up, i notoriously hold water and this stuff really seems to hit the spot for me as a kind of icing on the cake if you will, of course tough yeh, most forget they have to be lean to start with to see the effects properly.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> agreed certainly does not rip or lean anyone up, i notoriously hold water and this stuff really seems to hit the spot for me as a kind of icing on the cake if you will, of course tough yeh, most forget they have to be lean to start with to see the effects properly.


absolutely, the should call the product 4daripped ;-)


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

great thread this lads. Lot of interesting info here and results to boot looking at the avi's and pics. I'll have to read back over later and mentally digest this properly


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