# KETO Diet... WTF?



## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Hey all,

So I've been reading up on how to set up a keto diet, as I want to cut a bit to get rid of the fat I've gained during my test cycle.

I weigh 238lbs, approx 15% bodyfat (was down to 12), and as such, my LBM is 202lbs. I need to diet around 2000 calories to create my calorie deficit.

That means I need 202g and 808 calories of protein, 132g and 1192 calories of fat.

I started trying to map that to food, but I can't get anywhere close to balancing it out, even when I'm using the most hardcore protein I can - check it out:


WeightCalsFatProteinChicken Breast200g440g10.8g90.6gProtein Shake (MP Whey)50g196.6g3.4g39.2Eggs2160g10g14g*Totals*

796.6g24.2g143.8g

So I'm within 12g calorie wise for my protein, but I'm a massive 60g off the protein serving, and I have no idea how to introduce that level of fat!

Can anyone help me out with some pointers? I'm obviously missing something significant....?


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## man_dem03 (Oct 1, 2008)

Cals arent in grams.

For fats try nuts, advocado, peanut butter, use cream in shakes. Loads of tips on here of you search high fat foods


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Sorry - my bad. The calories are accurate numbers, however. The table's data is correct. What I'm struggling with is how to map the calories to the protein intake to get to a point where I can hit the targets for the diet?


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## man_dem03 (Oct 1, 2008)

Loads of people on here better at the diet game than me and i no next to nothing of keto diet.

Mine is high protein high fat, my meals look like this

Chicken breast, brocoli. Carrot sticks and peanut butter. I have this 3 times a day

Then pwo shake

Meat and veg

Shake, carrot sticks and peanut butter

Im happy eaten the same thing everyday so its not a problem. Just work it out from food you can stomach every day and what meets your needs


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Mackerel, essential for any keto diet.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Thats wrong mate, 200g of raw chicken is about 45g protein, eggs are about 5g each, plus the weigh, i reckon you got about 100g of protein there.


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Sorry - my bad. The calories are accurate numbers, however. The table's data is correct. What I'm struggling with is how to map the calories to the protein intake to get to a point where I can hit the targets for the diet?


im curious on this, it says 200G of chicken and 90G of protein in it? i want this type of chicken!


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Macros i use for chicken is, 100g raw weight = 23g protein / 1g fat / 110 calories


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

The information was just from Myfitnesspal.com. If you type in '100g chicken breast', the top option had those stats. If they're not correct, the numbers are even further adrift!


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> The information was just from Myfitnesspal.com. If you type in '100g chicken breast', the top option had those stats. If they're not correct, the numbers are even further adrift!


It's completely wrong... you have to use your noggin a bit with mfp, but it's not hard. A lot of the data is submitted by users so can be inaccurate. I find the bar code scanner is very accurate though.


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## Madoxx (Nov 7, 2010)

Also with MFP check for "confirmations", if it hasnt got any, i tend to avoid


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

BigRedSwitch said:


> The information was just from Myfitnesspal.com. If you type in '100g chicken breast', the top option had those stats. If they're not correct, the numbers are even further adrift!


yea, always good to be checking with any food apps or websites, get some fun numbers from the.

when i was cutting i went by the idea that 100g meat= 20g of protein and 1 25g scoop = 20g or protein (assume 80% whey), tried to eat as much in real meat as a good but for every 100g meat i couldnt eat or afford each day had 25g scoop of protein to balance. not perfect on numbers but it blanced out over the week


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

This is from the article I've read about Keto diet:



> If you weigh 200, but have 20% bodyfat, your lean mass weight would be around 160 pounds. Multiply this by one, getting your grams of protein requirements for a day. Make sure you eat at least one gram of protein/pound of lean mass! This is important in recovery from workouts and enough nitrogen retention to keep muscle. Next, multiply by four, to get your protein calories. Here, it is 640.


I don't really understand the 160g protein per day vs 640 calories of protein per day? From that, I basically need to eat 160g of protein which is 640 calories? That's pretty specific? I have no idea how to make that work - I mean, what food would deliver that sort of ratio?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

BigRedSwitch said:


> This is from the article I've read about Keto diet:
> 
> I don't really understand the 160g protein per day vs 640 calories of protein per day? From that, I basically need to eat 160g of protein which is 640 calories? That's pretty specific? I have no idea how to make that work - I mean, what food would deliver that sort of ratio?


All protein has 4 cals per gram mate... if you eat 160g of protein you will be getting 640 calories - fact. There is no working out to do.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

2004mark said:


> All protein has 4 cals per gram mate... if you eat 160g of protein you will be getting 640 calories - fact. There is no working out to do.


Ah, right - OK. Too much unnecessary detail in the article, then! Cheers bud!


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## billly9 (Sep 1, 2010)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I've been reading up on how to set up a keto diet, as I want to cut a bit to get rid of the fat I've gained during my test cycle.
> 
> ...


I'm no expert by any means on the Keto diet and this is all my opinion and things I've read - others may correct me, but I was always under the assumption that you want to try and split Fat/Protein at around 65%/35% with as minimal carbs as possible. This means that for your 2000 calorie diet (which I personally feel is too little calories - considering I cut on more and I'm ~55-60lbs lighter) you'd need to consume roughly 144g fat and 175g protein.

However, I have read about others who have had good results with Keto to up the fat even more, so it's more a 70/30 split. They also generally stick to the same amount of protein/fat per meal to make it simpler - e.g. 30g Protein and 30g Fat which is near enough the same split.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Any medical reason for using keto?

There is no extra advantage really over a sensible macro split when it comes to fat loss


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Don't eat lean sources of meat if your doing KETO uses whole chickens, mince beef, lamb, eggs for protein. Try to get your carbs only from green veg to help your digestive system


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Heath said:


> Any medical reason for using keto?
> 
> There is no extra advantage really over a sensible macro split when it comes to fat loss


I disagree, keto is by far the most effective diet I've ever done for *fat* loss.


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

L11 said:


> I disagree, keto is by far the most effective diet I've ever done for *fat* loss.


Maybe but was the keto diet much higher in protein than the other diets you did?

Once you match protein intake between diets, the one with more carbs is actually the one with the potential for a slight metabolic advantage.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Heath said:


> Maybe but was the keto diet much higher in protein than the other diets you did?
> 
> Once you match protein intake between diets, the one with more carbs is actually the one with the potential for a slight metabolic advantage.


No, I pretty much keep protein constant all the time, bulking, cutting, low carb, keto, whatever..

~250g


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

L11 said:


> No, I pretty much keep protein constant all the time, bulking, cutting, low carb, keto, whatever..
> 
> ~250g


We all have different tolerances but the perceived notion that ketosis has some magic fat loss is just wrong. Calorie balance at the end of the day will set how much weight you lose, protein how much muscle you hold onto and carbs IME give a better gym performance which also carries over into holding onto muscle.

This is assuming a good fat amount for natural test levels is also set.

Water weight dropped from keto can have the appearance of looking leaner but will go as soon as carbs are added back in.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

L11 said:


> No, I pretty much keep protein constant all the time, bulking, cutting, low carb, keto, whatever..
> 
> ~250g


I would agree with this. Protein should ideally be a factor of your lean body weight... presuming lbm is the same, protein needed vary between diets.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Heath said:


> We all have different tolerances but the perceived notion that ketosis has some magic fat loss is just wrong. Calorie balance at the end of the day will set how much weight you lose, protein how much muscle you hold onto and carbs IME give a better gym performance which also carries over into holding onto muscle.
> 
> This is assuming a good fat amount for natural test levels is also set.
> 
> Water weight dropped from keto can have the appearance of looking leaner but will go as soon as carbs are added back in.


I've skimmed through a few articles and studies that suggest otherwise, this one has the most concise explaination

http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html



> Under glycolysis, you must first deplete blood-glucose and glycogen stores in order to begin utilizing fats as energy, but the breakdown of fat must then compete with the breakdown of muscle-mass. The result of this competition or duel catabolism is about as much muscle-mass lost as fat. This can of course be largely avoided thru ketosis since under ketosis body-fat is the first and primary source of energy. Ketosis is muscle-sparing for the simple reason that proteins no longer compete with fatty acids for energy utilization. Under ketosis, protein is a secondary energy source and thus muscle-mass is largely spared.


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## Jayster (Oct 26, 2013)

Bring in Salmon, omega3 tablets, nuts and neck some coconut oil


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

L11 said:


> I've skimmed through a few articles and studies that suggest otherwise, this one has the most concise explaination
> 
> http://josepharcita.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/guide-to-ketosis.html


Looks pretty biased source for info at a quick glance


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## Daz26 (Apr 28, 2009)

@Heath If carbs are still being introduced periodically with a CKD/Tkd, do you still consider keto inferior?


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Ah, right - OK. Too much unnecessary detail in the article, then! Cheers bud!


All carbs and protein have 4calories per 1gram of weight.

Fats have 8 calories per 1 gram of weight. You wont need to eat the same weight in fat to get the same calorific value of protein for example.

10g fat = 80 calories

20g protein = 80 calories

20g carbs = 80 calories.

With ketosis you want to keep your protein at your right level to maintain your lean body mass. Then fats need to be at least 65% + of your calorific intake.

Eg 1000 calorie intake would mean 650calories need to be from fats alone.

Divide that by 8= 81g fat.

50 calories for carbs = 12~ g carbs.

300calories for protein = 75g protien.

I needed 2.5k carbs for my diet when I did it so, Multiply the above figures by 2.5 and i got:

202g fat

30g carbs

187 protein

It's easier to do than you think once you get the hang of it.

Only drink water to remove any carb intake you might forget about in sugary drinks.

Eat fatty meats such as pork (belly is the best for high fat), bacon, saussages (but watch for carbs - most have high carb content), processed meats such as pate http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=255084250.

Eat veg but keep it to the greens with LOW carbs mainly brocolli.

take protein shakes with no carbs in, add extra virgin olive oil to bulk it up.

pork scratchings are always nice..

eggs..

Pretty poor choice of foods but if you can eat a massive egg bacon mushroom breakfast your on to a winner really.


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Most informative post ever. Thanks!


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Daz26 said:


> @Heath If carbs are still being introduced periodically with a CKD/Tkd, do you still consider keto inferior?


Not inferior but probably not superior to a sensible daily macro split.

Most important is diet adherence so what you stick to the easiest will for most people be best.

Eg some people find keto reduces hunger whilst cutting so it helps.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Fats have 9 calories per gram....


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't notice a difference in the gym between no carbs and a decent amount of carbs


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

OK, so this is what I've come up with. Seems VERY fatty to me - have I got it right?


*Lean Mass*203*TotalCals*3000*Protein Grams*203*Protein Cals*812*Fat Cals*2188*Fat Grams*243.1*Amount/Weight**Cals**Fats**Protein*Fried Eggs43702825.2Cheese (Cheddar)50g20016.612.6Bacon5 Rashers210.51615Extra Virgin O Oil2 tbsp (30g)270300John West Smkd Mackerel1 Can26518.724.2Tesco Pate100g3353011.5Protein Shake25g981.719.6Extra Virgin O Oil2 tbsp (30g)270300Salmon Filets254037.649Extra Virgin O Oil1 tbsp (15g)135150Protein Shake25g981.719.6Extra Virgin O Oil2 tbsp (30g)270300*Total*3061.5255.3176.7*Proportion*59.097%40.902%

Does that look right? Struggling to believe this is going to shred the fat and maintain my muscle mass! :-S


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

It's quiet in here today. 

Any opinions on the diet above? @2004mark? @supermancss?


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

BigRedSwitch said:


> It's quiet in here today.
> 
> Any opinions on the diet above? @2004mark? @supermancss?


I think of you are just dieting without supps/ aas you will lose some mass. Those figures look OK to me though. You may want to increase fats as higher percentage to 75%+ for first few days so your into ketosis quicker. Fat if anything may be a little too low in % ratio. Look on amazon for ketone stix.

You **** on a tiny swab and it changes colour to indicate the level of ketones. The higher the better really. Gives you a good indicator to increase fats if nothing is happening on the test tabs.


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

Above should say P1ss not anything else, don't want you sh1tting on it lol


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

supermancss said:


> I think of you are just dieting without supps/ aas you will lose some mass. Those figures look OK to me though. You may want to increase fats as higher percentage to 75%+ for first few days so your into ketosis quicker. Fat if anything may be a little too low in % ratio. Look on amazon for ketone stix.
> 
> You **** on a tiny swab and it changes colour to indicate the level of ketones. The higher the better really. Gives you a good indicator to increase fats if nothing is happening on the test tabs.


Wow! How can I increase the fat to 75%? I was struggling to get it to 60!!


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## supermancss (Dec 2, 2008)

lower the protein slightly, look for whipped cream thats literally just fat lol, more oil in shakes.. will be pretty disgusting int he shakes after you put a fair amount in but if you can get it down you 2x a day for a few days thats it.

This is how I managed it, not saying its the right or wrong way though.

Another high fat protein option you could swap in is pork scratchings lol. Some would say this is taking the **** a bit but the macros fit so i did it !

Pork belly could be a way to increase the fats instead of the other meats


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

Whipped cream and oil into the protein shakes. Done! ;-)


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

butter and oil are pretty easy sources of fat.

why does planning a keto diet turn people into retards?


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## H_JM_S (Mar 27, 2012)

supermancss said:


> Above should say P1ss not anything else, don't want you sh1tting on it lol


I was thinking sh*t ahah :lol:


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## BigRedSwitch (Apr 12, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> butter and oil are pretty easy sources of fat.
> 
> why does planning a keto diet turn people into retards?


Ha! Pretty much because it's absolutely counter what everyone ever tells you about losing weight. "That *can't* be right!?" is a thought constantly grinding through my brain.

In addition, there's only so much oil and butter you can add to food - at this rate, I'll be buttering my salmon like a slice of toast!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

BigRedSwitch said:


> Ha! Pretty much because it's absolutely counter what everyone ever tells you about losing weight. "That *can't* be right!?" is a thought constantly grinding through my brain.
> 
> In addition, there's only so much oil and butter you can add to food - at this rate, I'll be buttering my salmon like a slice of toast!


I think you have realised whey and chicken breast are the worst proteins for keto. Cheaper mince, pork belly fatty lamb cuts, cheese. Salmon. All the good stuff. Enjoy


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## lovingit (Nov 5, 2012)

Should a keto diet only be short term . i.e. a month perhaps . Or could it be used longer until goal reached ??


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## walks (Apr 13, 2007)

lovingit said:


> Should a keto diet only be short term . i.e. a month perhaps . Or could it be used longer until goal reached ??


12 weeks is a decent run at keto

i prefer the palumbo type keto diet.

yes the op diet will work but why put all those sh1tty fats into your body and eat things like bacon.

im a fan of keto but only when it's done with clean fats.


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