# Diet for a scrawny looking to leave behind the scrawn...



## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

Hey guys n gals,

I need some input from you long term servers! I've been lifting weights on and off for 2 years - not really got into it as much as I have now and am looking to get it right this time without stupid mistakes so my research is my focus at this stage...as well as a training routine I have put together for readying my muscles for a more intense plan in the near future i.e. going to a 4 day workout plan.

Currently though this is what I've come to too:

I'm currently 11.7 stones, 6'1 and have put together my own home gym over the past 2 years.

I train 3 nights weeks as follows:

Monday: Chest, Triceps (Chest: flat, incline, decline bench press - will mix up by swapping bar for dumbells on alternating weeks / Triceps: Skull crushers, kickbacks and rope pull downs - I have a weak right elbow/tricep ligament so have to go easy on this)

Tuesday: rest - 30 mins light cardio (rowing) & ABS (ABS @ 4x 15)

Wednesday: Back and Biceps - (Back: Pull downs, low rows, barbell rows / Biceps: hammer curls, EZ Bar curls, reverse grip EZ bar curls)

Thursday: rest - 30 minutes light cardio (rowing) & ABS (ABS @ 4x 15)

Friday: Legs and Shoulders (Shoulders: shoulder press machine, front raises and bent over reverse flies / Legs: Squats, Calf Raises, Leg Extensions)

Saturday: rest - 30 minutes light cardio (rowing) & ABS (ABS ' 4x 15)

Sunday: rest

I perform 4 set's of 10 reps per exercise with 1-2 min's rest rest between consecutive exercises for the same muscle group - I feel this keeps a good pump and helps maximise the intensity of the workout...that's merely how I translate the feeling I get after working out.

My problem is my diet - I can't seem to gain weight although I can eat and eat plenty if need be! Current diet looks like this:

07:00am - 85g porridge with water (chopped banana & 1 scoop protein powder) 2x wholemeal toast with peanut butter

10:00am - turkey or chicken slice with green salad wholemeal roll

12:30am - chicken breast + veggies + coucous

15:00pm - 25g of protein powder in fat free milk + banana/apple

18:00pm - TRAINING - this is when I get home from the slave driven job!

19:00pm - post workout shake - 25g protein powder + banana/berries + fat free milk

19:30pm - chicken breast/steak + veggies + 1x potato

I am aware I need to get some sort of caesin for my pre sleep time over night feed but is this plan workable for gaining clean size so to speak?

Thank you in advance for any advice guys - I'm troubled right now and don't want to loose my enthuse!

Loving your work!


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## ***Lee*** (Jul 24, 2011)

This is a very good read and should answer all your questions on diet.

I know there is a lot of text, but get yourself a coffee and plough through it:becky:



*Calculating Calories and Macro's*
​
*Basic Terminology*

1/ *BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate)*: This is the amount of calories you need to consume to maintain your body if you were comatose (base level)....

2/ *NEAT (Non-Exercise Associated Thermogenesis)*: The calorie requirements added by your daily activity that is NOT exercise (eg: washing, walking, talking, shopping, working). This is generally the most marked variable in a persons daily calorie requirements and something that everyone has a good amount of control over. This is what people term INCIDENTAL EXERCISE. It is also what helps keep 'constitutionally lean' people LEAN (they fidget)!

3/ *EAT (Exercise Associated Thermogenesis)*: The calorie requirements associated with planned exercise.... Unless someone is doing a whole heap of exercise (eg: two or more hrs training a day) it usually doesn't add a stack of calories to your requirements (30 minutes of 'elliptical training isn't going to do it')









4/ *TEF (Thermogenic effect of feeding)*: The calorie expenditure associated with eating.... REGARDLESS of what myths you have been told - this is NOT dependent on MEAL FREQUENCY. It is a % of TOTAL CALORIES CONSUMED (and 15% of 3 x 600 cal meals is the same as 15% of 6 x 300 cal meals). It varies according to MACRONUTRIENT content and FIBER content... For most mixed diets, it is something around 15%.... Protein is higher (up to 25%), carbs are variable (between 5-25%), and fats are low (usually less than 5%). So ->> More protein and more carbs and more fiber = HIGHER TEF. More FAT = LOWER TEF.

5/ *TEE (Total Energy Expenditure)*: The total calories you require - and the sum of the above (BMR + NEAT + EAT + TEF).

*How much do you need?*

There is therefore a multitude of things that impact a persons MAINTENANCE calorie requirements

- Age and sex (males generally need > females for any given age)

- Total weight and lean mass (more lean mass = more needed)

- Physiological status (eg: sick or injured, pregnant, growth and 'enhancement')

- Hormones (eg: thyroid hormone levels, growth hormone levels)

- Exercise level (more activity = more needed)

- Daily activity level (more activity = more needed)

- Diet (that is - macronutrient intake)

In order to calculate your requirements the most accurate measure would be via Calorimetry [the measure of 'chemical reactions' in your body and the heat produced by these reactions], either directly (via placing a calorimeter where the heat you produce is measured) or indirectly (eg: HOOD studies where they monitor how much oxygen you use/ carbon dioxide and nitrogen you excrete over a given time). Although accurate - this is completely impractical for most people. So we mostly rely on pre-set formula to try to calculate our needs.

*Estimating Requirements*

The simplest method of estimating needs is to base your intake on a standard 'calories per unit of weight (usually kilograms)'. Typically:

- 26 to 30 kcals/kg/day for normal, healthy individuals with sedentary lifestyles doing little physical activity [12.0-14 kcal/pound]

- 31 to 37 kcal/kg/day for those involved in light to moderate activity 3-5 x a week with moderately active lifestyles [14-16 kcal/ pound]

- 38 to 40 kcals/kg/day for those involved in vigorous activity and highly active jobs [16-18 kcal/ pound].

For those involved in HEAVY training (eg: athletes) - the demand is even greater:

- 41 to 50 kcals/kg/day for those involved in moderate to heavy training (for example: 15-20 hrs/ week training) [18.5-22 kcal/ pound]

- 50 or above kcals/kg/day for those involved in heavy to extreme training [> 22 kcal/ pound]

There are, however, a number of more complex formula which calculate a baseline *BMR*, which you multiply by an 'activity variable' to give TEE.

1/ *Harris-Benedict formula*:

Particularly inaccurate & derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males in a COLD lab MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!

For MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]

For WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

2/*Mifflin-St Jeor*:

Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings, but it still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.

For MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5

For WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

3/*Katch-McArdle*:

Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.

BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)

Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

What is an *Activity Factor* - Essentially, this is the COST OF LIVING. THIS IS BASED ON MORE THAN JUST YOUR TRAINING (include work/lifestyle, gym/ sport & a TEF of ~ 15% - ie: an average mixed diet). And unless you are an ATHLETE your job/ lifestyle is MORE important than the gym sessions you do! So to convert BMR a TOTAL requirement you multiply the result by:

1.2 = Sedentary (Little or no exercise and desk job)

1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Little daily activity & light exercise 1-3 days a week)

1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately active daily life & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise or sports 6-7 days a week)

1.9-2.0 = Extremely Active (Hard daily exercise or sports and physical job)

*How Accurate are they?*

Although these (sometimes) give rough ball-park figures, they are still 'guesstimations'. Most people still OVERESTIMATE activity, and UNDERESTIMATE bodyfat & end up eating TOO MUCH. So - use these as 'rough figures' and monitor your weight/ measurements for 2-4 weeks. IF your weight is stable/ measurements are stable, then you have likely found maintenance.

*Using the Above to Recalculate Based on Goals*

You will need to DECREASE or INCREASE intake based on your goals (eg: lose or gain mass). And instead of using 'generic calorie amounts' (eg: 500 cals/ day), this is calculated on a % of your maintenance. Why? The effect of a given calorie amount on an individual is going to be markedly different based on their size/ total calorie intake. For example - subtracting 500 cals/ day from a 115# females 1500 total intake is 1/3rd of her total cals but 500 cals/ day for a 215# male on 3500 total intake is only 1/6th of their total... And it will result in markedly different effects on their energy levels and weight loss. Generally:

- to ADD weight: ADD 10-20% calories to your total from above

- to LOSE weight: SUBTRACT 10-20% calories from your total from above

Then monitor your results and adjust as required.



*NOTE: IF YOU ARE LESS THAN 18 YRS OF AGE - THESE FORMULA WILL NOT BE ACCURATE!*

*There is an energy cost associated with growth / inefficient movement / high surface area:mass ratio. Look **HERE** for alternatives. *

*As a teenager I would also STRONGLY suggest you don't obsess on calories and macros! Eat well, exercise regularly, and have fun while you can!*
​
*Macronutrient Needs*

Once you work out the above, you can work out how much of each macronutrient you should aim for. *This should NOT be based on a generic RATIO of total calorie intake such as '30:40:30 or 40:40:20* Your body doesn't CARE what % intake you have for macronutrients. It works in terms of SUFFICIENT QUANTITY per LEAN MASS or TOTAL MASS. This is one of the areas that is MOST often confused - so to try to make it as simple as possible:

1. *Protein*: Believe it or not - Protein intake is a bit of a controversial issue. In this, the general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area are nearly double the 'standard' recommendations given in the Sports Nutrition Arena. And to run through BOTH areas......

GENERAL sports nutrition /most studies out suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS then the following protein intakes are sufficient:

STRENGTH training -> 1.2 to 1.6g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)

ENDURANCE training -> 1.4 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)

ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)

BUT they also acknowledge that *protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.*

Some general 'bodybuilding' guidelines would be as follows:

- If bodyfat UNKNOWN but AVERAGE = 1-1.25g per pound TOTAL weight

- If bodyfat KNOWN = 1.25-1.5g per pound LEAN weight

If you are VERY LEAN or if you are on a LOW TOTAL CALORIE INTAKE then protein becomes more important - so:

- Average bodyfat, lower calorie intake = 1.25-1.5 per pound total mass

- Bodyfat known, lower calorie intake = 1.33-2 per pounds lean mass

If you are VERY OVERWEIGHT, VERY INACTIVE, and NOT on a lower calorie diet then you can decrease slightly BELOW the above levels:

- overweight or high calorie intake = ~ 1 x LEAN mass to 0.8-1 x total weight in pounds

Anecdotally, most find the HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, and blood sugar control. So UNLESS you are specifically guided to use the GENERAL sports nutrition guidelines, I would suggest the BODYBUILDING values.

2. *Fats*: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain general health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which acts to control free radical damage and inflammation. General guides:

Average or lean: 1 - 2g fat/ kg body weight [between 0.45 - 1g total weight/ pounds]

High bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ LEAN weight [between 0.45 - 1g LEAN weight/ pounds]

IF low calorie dieting - you can decrease further, but as a minimum, I would not suggest LESS than about 0.35g/ pound.

Note 1: Total fat intake is NOT the same as 'essential fats' (essential fats are specific TYPES of fats that are INCLUDED in your total fat intake)...

3. *Carbs*: VERY important for athletes, HIGHLY ACTIVE individuals, or those trying to GAIN MASS - Carbs help with workout intensity, health, and satiety (and sanity). But there are no specific 'requirements' for your body. Carbs are basically used by most as 'the extra stuff'.

For 'general folk' to calculate your carbs you just calculate it from the calories left over from fats/ protein:

carb calories = Total calorie needs - ([protein grams as above x 4] + [fat grams as above x 9])]

carbs in grams = above total/ 4

If you are an athlete - I would actually suggest you CALCULATE a requirement for these as a PRIORITY - then go back and calculate protein / fat:

moderately active: 4.5 - 6.5 g/ kg (about 2 - 3g/ pound)

highly active: 6.5 - 9 g/ kg (about 3 - 4g/ pound)


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

diets fine matey, focus on squats deads and this will increase appetite and create maximal hormone output


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## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

Thanks Lee - I'll get a couldron of coffee on the boil and set to reading!

On a serious note though it looks like a need to do more reading in order to fully understand everything above.....I have the attitude of a beginner again Lee so this is really brain fogging for me at this moment.....progress and understanding will dissolve the fog!

Thanks again

Paul


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## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

Thank you TheCrazyCal - that's the easy answer I wanted although I do see from Lee's post I gotta start understanding the nutrition side in depth for progression later on.

Regards

Paul


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## ***Lee*** (Jul 24, 2011)

BurnsideNo1 said:


> Thanks Lee - I'll get a couldron of coffee on the boil and set to reading!
> 
> On a serious note though it looks like a need to do more reading in order to fully understand everything above.....I have the attitude of a beginner again Lee so this is really brain fogging for me at this moment.....progress and understanding will dissolve the fog!
> 
> ...


Sorry I suppose it is a bit mind numbing lol.

I agree with Cal as well, utilising compound exercises like deads and squats will def help.

Good luck mate


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## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

What's your rep/set suggestion for squats and deads Lee? I do squats atm but not deads....

And please comment on the training routine if you think I need to add or reduce anything?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

burnside..

keep it simple with food..

hi protein, clean food..moderate carbs..lil bit off healthy fats.. dog walking 2x a day, training 2x a week = training god!

lol

have a look at my sticky in beginners section...

consider my principles rather than the specific routines..

altho they are very sound lol...

nice one lee


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## ***Lee*** (Jul 24, 2011)

Personally I work with 4-5 working sets (depending on the exercise) of 8-12 reps.

Once I reach 10 or 12 reps across all the working sets then I increase the weight and start again.

I would def recommend you include deads into your workout, they are in my opinion one of the best exercises you can do. Other than that it's just a case of finding out what works best for you, and your goals.

I know that's a little vague, but what works well for one person may not work as well for another. Just stick at it and be consistent, and you will get where you want to be


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## ***Lee*** (Jul 24, 2011)

TheCrazyCal said:


> ..............nice one lee


Thanks bud


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## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

Great info Lee & Cal - I'll be checking out the stickies as suggested...

I think the problem coming back into this after a short time of complacency is that I'm looking for the ultimate diet and training plan....let's face it I should have learnt that these only exist through experience of my own or indeed valued input by the likes of you chaps....for this I am most grateful.

I'll let you know how I get on....

Big thanks again guys and keep up your good work!

Paul


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## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

One more thing guys - is the gap between my 15:00pm protein shake and training too long?

Thanks

P


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yeah it is a bit long.

ive been reading a few things about protein intake recently and theres a lot of info out there suggesting timing is irrelevant as long as youre consuming enuff of it..

ie you could eat all your protein first thing and eat carbs for the rest of the day and protein synthesis is the same as spreading it out..

i wont be trying it, but i dont worry about a perfect protein splt thruout the day, if one meals a bit light i`ll eat more for the next..


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## BurnsideNo1 (May 14, 2011)

I had a feeling, sometimes I'm hyped for training sometimes not! I'll spread the gap between meal 3 and snack 4 so as to lessen the gap.

Thanks again Cal - mustard!

P


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## JoeHaley (Jul 27, 2011)

Just a shout out to Lee to say thanks for a great response to the question. There was a lot of stuff in there that I found quite helpful!


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