# Dextrose? Pre or post workout??



## miggs

My question is why is it that in america people use dextrose pre workout(reading muscle development forum US) and in uk reading from most forums(uk muscle etc..) it is widely use as a post workout supplement?


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## miggs

Any one??


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## Andrewgenic

I use it post workout, immediately after. My understanding is that after workout your glycogen stores are heavily depleated and the dextrose gives your muscles what it needs.It also creates an insulin spike which helps to shuttle the protein I consume around 15mins later to where its needed most.


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## bayman

There's really no absolute need for dextrose PWO, or PRE workout in fact.

Exercise is glycogen depleting yes, especially weight training. However, unless you need to perform / lift / compete again the very same day, then there's no need to worry about speed of glycogen replenishment, your diet over the next 24hrs will take care of that.

If a shake is convenient as you can't get a decent meal in soon after your workout, or you find it easier for adding extra cals that's fine, I get along just fine without one though.


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## xeonedbody

Andrewgenic said:


> I use it post workout, immediately after. My understanding is that after workout your glycogen stores are heavily depleated and the dextrose gives your muscles what it needs.It also creates an insulin spike which helps to shuttle the protein I consume around 15mins later to where its needed most.


agree with above

IMO if you take fast acting carbs pre workout you are likely to feel an energy crash very soon into your workout...taking slow digesting carbs is a better idea for more stable energy levels throughout your workouts


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## Andrewgenic

xeonedbody said:


> agree with above
> 
> IMO if you take fast acting carbs pre workout you are likely to feel an energy crash very soon into your workout...taking slow digesting carbs is a better idea for more stable energy levels throughout your workouts


True, and for that reason I have 60g of ground oats in my pre-workout shake, which I drink about 30-40mins before.


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## xeonedbody

bayman said:


> There's really no absolute need for dextrose PWO, or PRE workout in fact.
> 
> Exercise is glycogen depleting yes, especially weight training. However, unless you need to perform / lift / compete again the very same day, then there's no need to worry about speed of glycogen replenishment, your diet over the next 24hrs will take care of that.
> 
> If a shake is convenient as you can't get a decent meal in soon after your workout, or you find it easier for adding extra cals that's fine, I get along just fine without one though.


Disagree with this

After a proper weight lifting session in the gym you're body is in a catabolic environment. Dextrose will cause an insulin spike which will bring your body out of the catabolic mode into anabolic mode. Having a protein drink a few minutes after this will allow better absorption of the amino acids by your muscles

Also, your brain functions on glucose and dextrose after your workout will also allow your brain to recover in order to stop you from feeling tired afterwards


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## xeonedbody

Andrewgenic said:


> True, and for that reason I have 60g of ground oats in my pre-workout shake, which I drink about 30-40mins before.


oats is a good choice


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## Rotsocks

Have mine PWO mate


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## bayman

xeonedbody said:


> Disagree with this
> 
> After a proper weight lifting session in the gym you're body is in a catabolic environment. Dextrose will cause an insulin spike which will bring your body out of the catabolic mode into anabolic mode. Having a protein drink a few minutes after this will allow better absorption of the amino acids by your muscles
> 
> Also, your brain functions on glucose and dextrose after your workout will also allow your brain to recover in order to stop you from feeling tired afterwards


This is assuming you haven't eaten pre-WO though.

If you've eaten a meal 1-2hrs pre WO, amino's will already be present in the blood, insulin will already be elevated, you'll have plenty of glucose to fuel the workout. Whey on it's own is also very insulinogenic in it's own right.

This "need" for dextrose or simple carbs / recovery shakes PWO is pure marketing bull**** by the supplement industry.

And for reference only a small portion of the brain is completely glucose dependent, most of it can run just fine on ketone bodies.


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## bry1979

bayman said:


> This is assuming you haven't eaten pre-WO though.
> 
> If you've eaten a meal 1-2hrs pre WO, amino's will already be present in the blood, insulin will already be elevated, you'll have plenty of glucose to fuel the workout. Whey on it's own is also very insulinogenic in it's own right.
> 
> This "need" for dextrose or simple carbs / recovery shakes PWO is pure marketing bull**** by the supplement industry.
> 
> And for reference only a small portion of the brain is completely glucose dependent, most of it can run just fine on ketone bodies.


surely adding simple carbs post w/o will cause more of an insulin spike and so aid in shuttling nutrients into the muscle?


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## bayman

bry1979 said:


> surely adding simple carbs post w/o will cause more of an insulin spike and so aid in shuttling nutrients into the muscle?


Nutrient uptake PWO isn't solely dependent on insulin though.


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## bry1979

bayman said:


> Nutrient uptake PWO isn't solely dependent on insulin though.


very effective though, look at the success bbers have had using insulin, i know simple carbs won't get near an injectable level but the higher the better.


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## miggs

Very interesting replies, it's given me alot of thought I think i will stick to the post workout for the dextrose and maybe oats pre workout.. Many thanks guys


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## xeonedbody

bayman said:


> This is assuming you haven't eaten pre-WO though.
> 
> Wrong. This is considering that you have had a pre workout meal but nothing else apart from water during the workout.
> 
> If you've eaten a meal 1-2hrs pre WO, amino's will already be present in the blood, insulin will already be elevated, you'll have plenty of glucose to fuel the workout. Whey on it's own is also very insulinogenic in it's own right.
> 
> After your workout you are unlikely to have sufficiently 'elevated' levels of glucose from ur Pre WO meal. Only whey after your workout is likely to result in your body converting protein into glucose. If your PWO protein is being converted into glucose than how will your muscles be able to take sufficient amounts required?
> 
> This "need" for dextrose or simple carbs / recovery shakes PWO is pure marketing bull**** by the supplement industry.
> 
> And for reference only a small portion of the brain is completely glucose dependent, most of it can run just fine on ketone bodies.


You make no sense...if you've ended up at a point where your brain is working of ketone bodies than obviously insulin levels are low...you've driven sugar level in your blood low enough for your body to start producing ketone bodies for energy


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## bayman

xeonedbody said:


> After your workout you are unlikely to have sufficiently 'elevated' levels of glucose from ur Pre WO meal. Only whey after your workout is likely to result in your body converting protein into glucose. If your PWO protein is being converted into glucose than how will your muscles be able to take sufficient amounts required?


You're considering muscle building in a very finite window, it simply doesn't work like this. My point is, there is no specific need to spike insulin after a workout to still recover just fine, glycogen will replenish regardless.



xeonedbody said:


> You make no sense...if you've ended up at a point where your brain is working of ketone bodies than obviously insulin levels are low...you've driven sugar level in your blood low enough for your body to start producing ketone bodies for energy


You make no sense either if you understand how the body works. My point regarding the brain and ketones was to illustrate that there is no specific need for simple carbs PWO. Having Dextrose etc isn't going to result in increased CNS recovery.

People were getting jacked long before whey and dextrose PWO. I'll post somemore coherent and referenced stuff when I have time, for now: sleep zzzzzzz


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## dtlv

The 'need' for dextrose or fast carbs around the workout is definitely exaggerated - don't forget that most of the studies that first recommended dextrose as a workout supplement for athletes weren't looking at bodybuilders, they were looking at endurance athletes.

For these guys replenishing glycogen is pretty important, as they train for many hours per day, and it makes sense to take advantage of the ability to supersaturate glycogen stores for a short period post workout.

For a bodybuilder though the most important thing is protein synthesis and preventing catabolism. Carbs will help prevent catabolism if taken without protein, but once you start taking whey or aminos, the carbs no longer strictly become necessary. Is true that addign carbs to protein PWO will increase insulin levels further, but the amino acids themselves cause an insulin response that is high enough to cause them to be taken up into the muscle.

There is an argument for taking carbs PWO in that they cause a greater increase in the anabolic hormone IGF1, but whether it's enough to make any significant difference am not convinced.

I sometimes train with weights in the morning and then go running in the afternoon - when I do this I usually take carbs PWO, when it's just weights for that day then usually not.


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## T-1000

Couple of interesting reads which I agree with...

The post-workout shake serves a lot of purposes aside from the fact that you're getting nutrients almost instantly post-workout. The proper combination of protein and carbs (dextrose) will elevate your insulin to a point which triggers the body to start storing nutrients.

There are plenty of guys who swear against this tactic because they're worried about extra fat. The nutrient stores that come from a carb spike using dextrose in a post-workout shake would be a bad thing if your fat cells start throwing a party - you'd just grow a spare tire. But that's not the case when you're training and working out. Muscles take the front seat because they have a greater requirement for the nutrients and energy.

Some trainers even think that skipping the post-workout shake with dextrose is necessary because they want to burn fat faster. They feel that if they take in the fat from a shake it will be harder for them to burn it off. The opposite is true in fact. If you want to trim down your calorie intake, the worst place you can cut calories from your diet is right after the workout. It's during this time that your metabolism is screaming along like a Formula 1 Racer. Fat gain is the least likely thing to happen, so you shouldn't have any worries about combining dextrose with your post-workout shake.

The window of opportunity is small and you want those nutrients to get to your muscles fast.

Why Dextrose?

A common question here is "Why the use of Dextrose?" Some are worried, as previously mentioned, about the calorie issue. The fact is that the body is going to destroy those calories to fuel the muscles post-workout. Dextrose is used because it has a high glycemic index. When you utilize dextrose in your post-workout shake you're going to get a heavy insulin spike.

That insulin spike is what you want because it creates a chemical stir in the brain. A trigger occurs that shifts the way the body processes the nutrients. Because your muscles take the frontline over fat stores due to their depleted energy stores, the nutrients you take in - including the carbs like Dextrose - head straight for the muscles to be used. This is essential to getting your muscles into a state where they start the healing process quickly.

Certain sugars (carbs) are used in your body to restore muscle glycogen and are better suited for that. Others are not. Dextrose is noted to be a perfect source for restoring those glycogen stores as it has the high glycemic index and it's quickly digested. Other carbs like apple juice, which contain mainly fructose, don't restore muscle glycogen. Instead it fills the liver glycogen stores, offering no benefit to your muscles at all.

Increasing Dextrose

If you're into pushing the envelope and you want to build a lot more muscle mass then you can increase the intake dextrose to encourage a lot more lean tissue development. Don't worry about heavy calorie counts in your shake. You're at an anabolic peak in your post-workout state and it's the perfect time to take in a big helping of the right calories - it's an extremely smart move.

If the facility you're in has the space for you to do so, immediately mix this post-workout shake together using the guidelines above as soon as your cool-down has finished. Don't skip the cool-down phase just to get the shake made and clear your window. You have plenty of time and that cool down-phase is just as important as your shake at that point in time.

Make sure you follow your post-workout shake up with a complete meal, even if it's a small one. You'll need additional carbs beyond the dextrose, something that is slower digesting. Include in that meal a very small amount of healthy fat and a solid source of protein (tuna is popular and a good choice).

Don't set this out of mind if your workout facility won't allow you to mix on site (some don't for health reasons or they simply don't have the space). If you can't mix there due to a lack of working counter space, then bring a shaker bottle containing all the necessary raw ingredients so that you can take in the post-workout shake quickly. It may sound like an exaggeration in a sense but the window is small and literally every minute is counting against you after your cool-down period.


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## bayman

The "window of opportunity" is also bull****, where have you taken the above passage from? One thing that makes me highly skeptical of the source is the fact he references restoring liver glycogen being useless, if he knew his stuff he'd know that this is the first to be depleted by exercise and muscle levels won't actually restore until this is full also...

And I'm saying the "window of opportunity" is crap as training ups protein synthesis for anywhere between 36-48hrs, so if you think having a shake PWO or not is going to make or break gains then I think that's very short sighted way of looking at things. I agree with getting a decent whack of cals and nutrients in PWO to take advantage of increased insulin sensitivity and nutrient uptake mind, but food is just as effective as a shake IME.


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## bayman

Some gems from Alan Aragon on this very subject:



> *Is It Necessary to "Spike" Insulin Post-workout?*
> 
> Another concern of the fat-free-post-workout camp is the blunting of the insulin response. The rationale of maximizing the insulin response is to counteract the catabolic nature of the post-trained state, switching the hormonal milieu into an anabolic one, thus speeding recovery. Although this might benefit those who train fasted or semi-fasted, many don't realize that a pre-exercise meal (and in some cases the mid-exercise meal) is doing more than enough spiking of insulin levels for anticatabolic purposes.
> 
> It's an important objective to not only maximize muscle protein synthesis, but also minimize protein breakdown. However, the latter doesn't require a massive insulin spike, but rather just a touch beyond basal/resting levels. To illustrate this, Rennie & colleagues found that even during a sustained high blood level of amino acids, no further inhibition of muscle protein breakdown occurred beyond insulin elevation to approximately 15 μU/l,20 which is slightly above normal basal levels of 5-10 μU/l.
> 
> To reiterate, the pre-exercise meal can have profound effects on insulin levels that surpass the length of the training bout. Tipton's team found that as little as 6g essential amino acids + 35g sucrose taken immediately before exercise (45-50 minutes of resistance training) was enough to keep insulin elevated to roughly 4x above fasting levels 1-hour post-exercise.21 It took 2 hours post-exercise for insulin to return to resting levels. A similar insulin response was seen with 20g whey by itself taken immediately preworkout.22 If carbs were added to the pre-training protein, there would be yet a greater insulin response.
> 
> As far as solid food goes, Capaldo's team examined various metabolic effects during a five hour period after ingesting a meal composed of 75g carb (47%), 37g prot (26%), and 17g fat (27%).23 Although this study didn't examine training effects, this meal would make a nice post-workout meal due to its absolute (and proportional) amounts of protein and carbohydrate. The fat-fearing camp would warn against the meal's fat content interfering with the insulin response. However, this meal was able to raise insulin 3 times above fasting levels within 30 minutes of consumption. At the 60 minute mark, insulin was 5 times greater than fasting. At the 300 minute mark, insulin levels were still double the fasting level.
> 
> Elliot and colleagues compared the effect of fat-free milk, whole milk, and a higher dose of fat-free milk (to match the calories of the whole milk) taken 60 minutes post-resistance exercise.24 Whole milk was superior for increasing net protein balance. Interestingly, the calorie-matched dose of fat free milk containing 14.5g protein, versus 8.0g in the whole milk (an 81% advantage), but still got beaten. The investigators speculated over the possible mechanisms behind the outcome (insulin response, blood flow, subject response differences, fat content improving nitrogen retention), but end up dismissing each one in favor of concluding that further research is necessary to see if extra fat calories ingested with an amino acid source will increase muscle protein synthesis. Lingering questions notwithstanding, post-workout milkfat was the factor that clinched the victory - at least in overnight-fasted subjects.
> 
> To put another nail in the coffin of the insulin spiking objective, post-exercise glycogen resynthesis is biphasic.25 Unlike the subsequent "slow" phase which can last several hours, the initial "rapid" phase of glycogenesis lasting 30-60 minutes immediately post-exercise is not dependent upon insulin. Maximizing post-workout hyperinsulinemia may be beneficial for athletes with more than a single exhaustive endurance-containing training bout separated by less than approximately 8 hours, but in all other cases, the benefit in "spiking" insulin is nil.
> 
> In line with this theme, interesting research has surfaced in recent years challenging the idea that highly glycemic (and thus insulinemic) carbohydrates taken post-workout are the optimal for recovery. Erith's team found no difference between post-exercise high- and low-glycemic index (GI) carbohydrate intake on exercise performance the following day.26 In a similar study, Stevenson's team actually saw better next-day performance in subjects who consumed low-GI post-exercise carbohydrate than those who consumed high-GI post-exercise carbohydrate.27


Note the highlighted sections. The above article was actually posted on here in 2008, yet we still here the "you NEED dextrose PWO bro" rubbish being passed around.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition-diet-articles/30329-fat-insulin-postworkout.html

To summarise the above into useful bullets:

*Alan Aragon's Research Review, January, 2008 - Inaugural Issue Page 5 *


High amounts of post-exercise fat (up to approximately 165g) do not reduce 24-hour glycogen synthesis. Thus, those who do not train the same muscles to glycogen depletion (or near-depletion) more than once a day shouldn't be concerned with a normal fat intake, even in the post-workout period.


*Is spiking insulin necessary post-workout? Generally not. *

No greater inhibition of muscle protein breakdown has been seen beyond insulin elevation to approximately 15 μU/l, which is slightly above resting/basal levels of 5-10 μU/l.

In one study, whole milk was superior for increasing net protein balance post-workout, despite the calorie-matched dose of fat free milk containing 81% more protein.


*The initial 30-60 minute "rapid" phase of glycogenesis immediately post-exercise is not dependent upon insulin. *

There's no need to attempt to spike insulin for recovery purposes since maximal effects are seen at minimal elevations. Simply getting enough total substrate surrounding the training bout suffices, at least within the context of a 24-hour separation between exhaustive training of the same muscles. Multiple depleting endurance-type bouts per day (i.e., < 8 hours between bouts) may be the exception to this rule.

On a related tangent, it's been commonly recommended to maximize post-exercise hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia by consuming high-GI carbohydrates. However, this strategy has been seen to offer no benefit on next-day performance, and one recent study even saw endurance impairment.


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## PaulB

I for one am one of those people who added dextrose to my post workout shake. From what Ive read above and from other posts, I think I will be dropping this practice.


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## dtlv

A couple of points to add to baymans comments - the increased uptake of glucose after the workout is indeed not because of increased insuiln, it's to do with GLUT4 transporters moving to the cell membranes. This enables glucose to pas into muscle cells without the aid of extra insulin at this time.

Second point on liver glycogen replenishment - absolutely important, more so than muscle glycogen replenishment. The only reason why you might 'suffer' post workout if you don't take carbs around your training is if your liver glycogen levels are low, and restoring them would be the most important effect of workout carbs. When you do long duration exercise and you suddenly hit a wall where you suddenly feel more tired and performance suddenly drops off, this is a response to liver glycogen gettting very low and the change in fuel substrates the body uses as a response from this signal. If you complete a resistance training workout and somehow manage to deplete most of your liver glycogen then you will feel like sh!t - your body will feel heavy, you may well get the shakes, and motivation to sleep is about all that you will feel compelled to do.

The only bit I think disagree slightly on is the post workout window of protein synthesis - is true that the process takes around 36 hours, but a little over 40% of all increased PS stimulated by a workout occurs in the first 4 hours after training, 50% in the next 8 hours and 10% over the next 24 hours+.

There's a good study on this I'll try and post back with. This doesn't necessarily mean that you need an immediate PWO feed, but does suggest you are wasting a potential period of accelerated PS if you don't at any point within this window have an influx of aminos to give the signalling required to take advantage.


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## bayman

Dtlv74 said:


> The only bit I think disagree slightly on is the post workout window of protein synthesis - is true that the process takes around 36 hours, but a little over 40% of all increased PS stimulated by a workout occurs in the first 4 hours after training, 50% in the next 8 hours and 10% over the next 24 hours+.
> 
> There's a good study on this I'll try and post back with. This doesn't necessarily mean that you need an immeadiate PWO feed, but does suggest you are wasting a potential period of accelerated PS if you don't at any point within this window have an influx of aminos to give the signalling required to take advantage.


That's really interesting Dtlv in regards to how PS tails off. It still leaves 12hours where the bulk (90%) of PS occurs, and supports what I was saying in regards to worrying about the immeadiate hour after training, or whther you're getting a PWO shake is missing the wood from the trees. Much more important is ensuring you've hit your macros and cals for the workout day and the next, hell even prioritising most of your cals PWO to take advantage of the parioning effect?

In all of my posts on this I've not suggested for one minute that anyone should skimp on food/cal/nutrients in the PWO period, just that a shake and/or dextrose isn't essential to taking advantage of this - which the above information clearly supports.

If it's convenient, nail a shake, otherwise real food is just as effective.


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## dtlv

bayman said:


> That's really interesting Dtlv in regards to how PS tails off. It still leaves 12hours where the bulk (90%) of PS occurs, and supports what I was saying in regards to worrying about the immeadiate hour after training, or whther you're getting a PWO shake is missing the wood from the trees. Much more important is ensuring you've hit your macros and cals for the workout day and the next, hell even prioritising most of your cals PWO to take advantage of the parioning effect?
> 
> In all of my posts on this I've not suggested for one minute that anyone should skimp on food/cal/nutrients in the PWO period, just that a shake and/or dextrose isn't essential to taking advantage of this - which the above information clearly supports.
> 
> If it's convenient, nail a shake, otherwise real food is just as effective.


Very much agreed - IMO meeting daily food and nutrient requirements outweighs any differences in how you time your meals/shakes, carbs/protein and by a long way... better to eat the right amounts of nutrients and not time it optimally than to have perfect PWO shake, organised meal structure etc but not enough of the things your body needs.


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## T-1000

bayman said:


> The "window of opportunity" is also bull****, where have you taken the above passage from? One thing that makes me highly skeptical of the source is the fact he references restoring liver glycogen being useless, if he knew his stuff he'd know that this is the first to be depleted by exercise and muscle levels won't actually restore until this is full also...
> 
> And I'm saying the "window of opportunity" is crap as training ups protein synthesis for anywhere between 36-48hrs, so if you think having a shake PWO or not is going to make or break gains then I think that's very short sighted way of looking at things. I agree with getting a decent whack of cals and nutrients in PWO to take advantage of increased insulin sensitivity and nutrient uptake mind, but food is just as effective as a shake IME.


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stack-up-pwo-shake-with-dextrose.htm


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## bayman

T-1000 said:


> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/stack-up-pwo-shake-with-dextrose.htm


It's still crap. The fact you've taken it off BB.com just confirms this.


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## T-1000

Why does it confirm it's crap? Are you saying they chat a lot of sh1t or something?


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## bayman

T-1000 said:


> Why does it confirm it's crap? Are you saying they chat a lot of sh1t or something?


Essentially, yes. All that article does is perpetuate a load of bb'ing myths, such as the "60 minute window". It contains no references for his claims either, it's like one big supplement ad.


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## switch

I dont think anyone will every agree on these types of things, I gues you have to expierment with foods and timings and see what works best for you, were all different after all.


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## bayman

switch said:


> I dont think anyone will every agree on these types of things, I gues you have to expierment with foods and timings and see what works best for you, were all different after all.


It not a case of agreeing, it's utilising approaches with a solid scientific backing rather than what Met-rx told you you need PWO.

Sure, if adding a shake PWO means you get more calories in and subsequently grow more, fine. I suppose they're convenient and if you see it as cost effective then there's no harm in it, people just have to realise it's not going to be any more effective than simply getting in enough cals and protein from real foods.


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## dtlv

As mentioned a few posts back, I think there is strong rationale for consuming part of your daily protein intake around the workout due to the effects this has on cell signalling, but with carbs it's less important.

The 'window' that is often refered to post workout does reflect a period where both amino acids and glucose are utilised, transported and stored by the body in a slightly different way to the 'at rest' condition, but for a bodybuilder the window is much more important for protein intake than carbohydrate intake. For endurance athletes carbs at this time are very important, for bodybuilders - less so IMO.


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## FoxRaynard

Dtlv74 said:


> feel like sh!t - your body will feel heavy, you may well get the shakes, and motivation to sleep is about all that you will feel compelled to do.


This is pretty much what I feel like after my workouts even tho I have a post workout shake (with dextrose) and then a meal as soon as possible. I actually increased the amount of dextrose in my shake today and I feel slightly better.

Or I may remove the carbs and have an extra meal


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## 2004mark

FoxRaynard said:


> This is pretty much what I feel like after my workouts even tho I have a post workout shake (with dextrose) and then a meal as soon as possible. I actually increased the amount of dextrose in my shake today and I feel slightly better.
> 
> Or I may remove the carbs and have an extra meal


Are you new to training or is this an ongoing thing?


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## A.J.

I believe you should ALWAYS spike post-workout! regardless of the diet you are on u need the spike.

Not only will it help you get the most much-needed amino acids to your starving, broken down muscles, but after a workout, your body is in a state of catabolism! Cortisol is running rampant, destroying all your attempts at the hard-earned gains. You need to whoop it like there is no tomorrow!


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## Gym1

Should PWO fast carbs be consumed on a keto style fat loss diet where there is a moderate calorie deficit? I consume a maximum of 20g carbs a day. I lost a fair amount of weight in 2 weeks without PWO carbs but my strength has started to suffer and by the end of the week I felt weak and like my body was almost hurting for more food. Don't know whether this is down to the kcal deficit though (1900 kcals per day and I weigh 165lb). I am doing 2 strength days, 2 intense interval/circuit days and 2 light cardio days.


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## Gym1

??


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## bayman

A.J. said:


> I believe you should ALWAYS spike post-workout! regardless of the diet you are on u need the spike.
> 
> Not only will it help you get the most much-needed amino acids to your starving, broken down muscles, but after a workout, your body is in a state of catabolism! Cortisol is running rampant, destroying all your attempts at the hard-earned gains. You need to whoop it like there is no tomorrow!


Did you actually read the thread or are you just incoherently reproducing crap you read elsewhere?


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## dirtymusket1

Post workout for the insulin spike that will drive all of the whey protein you are about to take directly into lean tissue :thumb:


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## vtec_yo

Post.

Spike dat insulin.

Shuttle dem nutrients.


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