# Coming off 35 weeks 'on', no hcg, no pct...



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

As you all know back in October I started a fairly heavy cycle and used test, deca, tren, dbol, anadrol, winstrol and probably other stuff too at reasonably moderate doses. Ran the cycle for around 22 weeks, had to come off due to constant illness due to the stupid amounts of gear I was taking. I had planned (due to previous problems with sex drive and mood and lethargy) to put myself on TRT for life. I ran trt dose for a couple of weeks I think then just stopped. I don't really know why, I just had alot of stuff going on with my business and the kids and family and stuff and just stopped bothering to jab telling myself "I'll do it tomorrow".. well it's now been around 8 weeks since I did my last jab, since coming off the cycle iv barely even trained or eaten. In the last 12 week's iv probably been to the gym about 8 times (something which I am going to sort out after this weekend) and iv not even been eating much either. Now, after using test at 1.2g, tren at 600mg with deca at 600mg plus all the orals I would have thought after 8 or 9 weeks going cold turkey I would be a skinny, shrivel penised quivering wreck? Iv used no hcg, no pct meds.. iv obviously lost some size but not a great deal considering iv not been eating or training, I'm getting morning wood and random hard ons and today bolted a massive load, and I feel awesome! Can somebody please explain what's going on and why Im fine?

Cheers

Edit: my maths is bad, it wasn't 35 weeks on it was about 25 weeks including the few weeks on TRT


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## MakkaL (Apr 15, 2013)

OOPSIEEEE :whistling:


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

ive done he same before

never even touched hcg or a pct med and always been fine (well felt fine should i say)


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

dont jinx it !


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

Long ester Test?

22 weeks + at 1.2g will have built up to some dose, Id not be surprised if the test hasn't cleared yet.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> As you all know back in October I started a fairly heavy cycle and used test, deca, tren, dbol, anadrol, winstrol and probably other stuff too at reasonably moderate doses. Ran the cycle for around 22 weeks, had to come off due to constant illness due to the stupid amounts of gear I was taking. I had planned (due to previous problems with sex drive and mood and lethargy) to put myself on TRT for life. I ran trt dose for a couple of weeks I think then just stopped. I don't really know why, I just had alot of stuff going on with my business and the kids and family and stuff and just stopped bothering to jab telling myself "I'll do it tomorrow".. well it's now been around 8 weeks since I did my last jab, since coming off the cycle iv barely even trained or eaten. In the last 12 week's iv probably been to the gym about 8 times (something which I am going to sort out after this weekend) and iv not even been eating much either. Now, after using test at 1.2g, tren at 600mg with deca at 600mg plus all the orals I would have thought after 8 or 9 weeks going cold turkey I would be a skinny, shrivel penised quivering wreck? Iv used no hcg, no pct meds.. iv obviously lost some size but not a great deal considering iv not been eating or training, I'm getting morning wood and random hard ons and today bolted a massive load, and I feel awesome! Can somebody please explain what's going on and why Im fine?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Edit: my maths is bad, it wasn't 35 weeks on it was about 25 weeks including the few weeks on TRT


You feel better now because you were totally shutdown for being on too long,im just about to come off shortly and ill only use hcg,i hate pct meds.well done anyway mate.


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## sockie (Jul 1, 2012)

wait a little while longer and get your blood done,time will tell.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

you look fairly young , some ppl recover alot easier than others , generally the older you get the harder recovery is , i wouldnt worry about feeling awesome


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

mikex101 said:


> Long ester Test?
> 
> 22 weeks + at 1.2g will have built up to some dose, Id not be surprised if the test hasn't cleared yet.


Wasn't on that dose the whole time, bumped it to 1.2 at the last couple of weeks which almost killed me off with all the other stuff lol. Iv had a dip since coming off so I definitely feel I am on the recovering side rather than still coming off side.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> As you all know back in October I started a fairly heavy cycle and used test, deca, tren, dbol, anadrol, winstrol and probably other stuff too at reasonably moderate doses. Ran the cycle for around 22 weeks, had to come off due to constant illness due to the stupid amounts of gear I was taking. I had planned (due to previous problems with sex drive and mood and lethargy) to put myself on TRT for life. I ran trt dose for a couple of weeks I think then just stopped. I don't really know why, I just had alot of stuff going on with my business and the kids and family and stuff and just stopped bothering to jab telling myself "I'll do it tomorrow".. well it's now been around 8 weeks since I did my last jab, since coming off the cycle iv barely even trained or eaten. In the last 12 week's iv probably been to the gym about 8 times (something which I am going to sort out after this weekend) and iv not even been eating much either. Now, after using test at 1.2g, tren at 600mg with deca at 600mg plus all the orals I would have thought after 8 or 9 weeks going cold turkey I would be a skinny, shrivel penised quivering wreck? Iv used no hcg, no pct meds.. iv obviously lost some size but not a great deal considering iv not been eating or training, I'm getting morning wood and random hard ons and today bolted a massive load, and I feel awesome! Can somebody please explain what's going on and why Im fine?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Edit: my maths is bad, it wasn't 35 weeks on it was about 25 weeks including the few weeks on TRT


There is a video on youtube of that Bios3training






Where he explains that in his experience you keep the gains and strength for 2-3 months after you come off with or without PCT but then all of a sudden you start to lose strength and size rapidly and will eventually go close to what your muscle mass was before you started.

Ive also heard this from other experienced people so I think its legit info. Also look at Flex Wheeler after he stopped.

In your case this isn't very good because form what I gather on your youtube channel you started roids without even being a natty first... Just jumped straight on roids and started lifting weights. So all your current muscle mass is from steroid use, you stop using now and you may likely shrink back down in terms of muscle mass and probably gain fat to make up for the lean weight you rapidly lost.

This is why its good to get as big as you can naturally before jumping on the AAS


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

I felt horrendous after 30odd weeks of 300 then 600 test

Took a sht load of effort just to get it up and even more to bust one out, felt EMPTY.. Hadn't seen my best group of mates in about two months and they were all trying to drag me to Manchester for a meal/night out for one of their birthdays and I had no desire whatsoever to go, and when I did it was so much effort to even talk to any of them :no:

Took till I started jabbing HCG till I felt alright again


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

IGotTekkers said:


> As you all know back in October I started a fairly heavy cycle and used test, deca, tren, dbol, anadrol, winstrol and probably other stuff too at reasonably moderate doses. Ran the cycle for around 22 weeks, had to come off due to constant illness due to the stupid amounts of gear I was taking. I had planned (due to previous problems with sex drive and mood and lethargy) to put myself on TRT for life. I ran trt dose for a couple of weeks I think then just stopped. I don't really know why, I just had alot of stuff going on with my business and the kids and family and stuff and just stopped bothering to jab telling myself "I'll do it tomorrow".. well it's now been around 8 weeks since I did my last jab, since coming off the cycle iv barely even trained or eaten. In the last 12 week's iv probably been to the gym about 8 times (something which I am going to sort out after this weekend) and iv not even been eating much either. Now, after using test at 1.2g, tren at 600mg with deca at 600mg plus all the orals I would have thought after 8 or 9 weeks going cold turkey I would be a skinny, shrivel penised quivering wreck? Iv used no hcg, no pct meds.. iv obviously lost some size but not a great deal considering iv not been eating or training, I'm getting morning wood and random hard ons and today bolted a massive load, and I feel awesome! Can somebody please explain what's going on and why Im fine?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Edit: my maths is bad, it wasn't 35 weeks on it was about 25 weeks including the few weeks on TRT


Am I missing something, was it moderate doses, or large as you said you had to come off due to stupid amounts of gear?

How much are we talking?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

love some of the comments on ur videos lol

UntamedRacer 4 weeks ago

you clearly have no? clue what you're doing

Reply ·

crazyrussianbastard1 4 weeks ago

jesus 14 weeks of juice and u still look? like ****.wtf gives bro

Reply ·

crazyrussianbastard1 4 weeks ago

ugly ****? face

Reply ·

^^^ this ones the best ugly fvck face LOL just funny


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## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> love some of the comments on ur videos lol
> 
> UntamedRacer 4 weeks ago
> 
> ...


Haha ppl on yt are so mean :lol:


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> love some of the comments on ur videos lol
> 
> UntamedRacer 4 weeks ago
> 
> ...


That crazyrussianbastard is hilarious. He's made about 11 accounts so far all dedicated to me. I think he is in love. What makes me laugh is that people all comment on the years old videos and ignore the newer ones where iv actually made decent progress.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> love some of the comments on ur videos lol
> 
> UntamedRacer 4 weeks ago
> 
> ...


That crazyrussianbastard is hilarious. He's made about 11 accounts so far all dedicated to me. I think he is in love. What makes me laugh is that people all comment on the years old videos and ignore the newer ones where iv actually made decent progress.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> That crazyrussianbastard is hilarious. He's made about 11 accounts so far all dedicated to me. I think he is in love. What makes me laugh is that people all comment on the years old videos and ignore the newer ones where iv actually made decent progress.


Keyboard warriors lol


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> Am I missing something, was it moderate doses, or large as you said you had to come off due to stupid amounts of gear?
> 
> How much are we talking?


Well the last few weeks of the cycle I was running

Test 1.2g ew

Deca 600mg ew

Tren 600mg ew

Dbol 80mg ed

Anadrol 50mg ed

Winny 40mg ed

Prov 50mg ed

Nolva 20mg ed

Put me in bed for about 5 weeks and completely ****ed my immune system and burnt me out. Some on here would say that was moderate, to me it was too much.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Poke said:


> There is a video on youtube of that Bios3training
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have being off for more than 3 months no hcg on cycle and a stone heavier than when I did my last jab and beaten PBS on every lift I think. Loads of people lose weight because they don't eat enough or start going on the lash every weekend as soon as they come off.


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## MakkaL (Apr 15, 2013)

Why do you run so much stuff man


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Prodot said:


> Why do you run so much stuff man


Id like to know why, so many orals at once?


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

I never ran pct after my last cycle because Nolva was making me feel like crap and I decided I would trial it and if I crashed go back on and I felt great too, morning wood straight away, balls back to normal size quicker and normal sex drive within days.

Without bloodwork I can't say whether I recovered well or not but I felt better so much quicker.

@Poke after watching the Bios3 raw video and also Rich Piana talking about pct with Ric Drasin it has got me questioning running pct now.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Well the last few weeks of the cycle I was running
> 
> Test 1.2g ew
> 
> ...


 This list looks like what people were posting as Andreas Munzer's death cycle!!


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I have being off for more than 3 months no hcg on cycle and a stone heavier than when I did my last jab and beaten PBS on every lift I think. Loads of people lose weight because they don't eat enough or start going on the lash every weekend as soon as they come off.


Just going by what a number of experienced users have said mate and I have no reason to doubt them personally, there are exceptions to every rule and its not based on any scientific evidence, could take someone else longer, still, stay off the gear or trt for another few months keep eating well and tell us how you get on 

Also they never said people lose weight, they said they start losing their muscle mass, and depending on the calories they are eating no matter the macros they gain fat to compensate for the muscle loss.


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

IGotTekkers said:


> Well the last few weeks of the cycle I was running
> 
> Test 1.2g ew
> 
> ...


All at once???!!!!!!!

Jesus, thats a boat load of gear!!!!!! no wonder you felt bad.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Hcg is probably more important than anything else - I don't use it often enough tbh


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Can I just ask why you actually ran all that gear?

You only seriously starting lifting weights not even 2 years ago!!!!

TBH If you just didn't take any gear at all and started training natty (like any normal person would do) you would have made a tonne of newb gains... you will be surprised at how much lean mass you would have gained without taking any gear, now your pretty much ****ed tbh.... you could have gone natty till now gained a good amount of muscle and then started a *low *dose of AAS and you would get pretty much another set of newb gains!!! making you have probably more muscle mass than you do now and a healthier body!


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Poke said:


> Can I just ask why you actually ran all that gear?
> 
> You only seriously starting lifting weights not even 2 years ago!!!!
> 
> TBH If you just didn't take any gear at all and started training natty (like any normal person would do) you would have made a tonne of newb gains... you will be surprised at how much lean mass you would have gained without taking any gear, now your pretty much ****ed tbh.... you could have gone natty till now gained a good amount of muscle and then started a *low *dose of AAS and you would get pretty much another set of newb gains!!! making you have probably more muscle mass than you do now and a healthier body!


this i would have to agree with if i am honest. but i wouldn't exactly call him ****ed tho,he could still go back natty and make gains,not at the newbie rate no.i grow when off cycle as well as on cycle,and i dont even have the greatest genes of all people,well not bad lol. but stll that is alot of gear to be taking and will do more damage than good.


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

kingdale said:


> I have being off for more than 3 months no hcg on cycle and a stone heavier than when I did my last jab and beaten PBS on every lift I think. Loads of people lose weight because they don't eat enough or start going on the lash every weekend as soon as they come off.


that's right, i have been off a little over a month now,only weight i have lost if a couple of ibs of water from the gear,strength still up there where it was and will no doubt add more weight before next cycle.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

gymaddict1986 said:


> this i would have to agree with if i am honest. but i wouldn't exactly call him ****ed tho,he could still go back natty and make gains,not at the newbie rate no.i grow when off cycle as well as on cycle,and i dont even have the greatest genes of all people,well not bad lol. but stll that is alot of gear to be taking and will do more damage than good.


Well Im just saying you make the most gains when you first start bodybuilding natural and when you first start AAS, he started AAS at the same time as starting bodybuildingm and within a year was running huge cycles... Pretty much masted and IMO if he wants to keep the muscle mass he has (which tbh could have easily been gained naturally) without being too fat or gain muscle hes gonna have to be on AAS for life.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Poke said:


> Can I just ask why you actually ran all that gear?
> 
> You only seriously starting lifting weights not even 2 years ago!!!!
> 
> TBH If you just didn't take any gear at all and started training natty (like any normal person would do) you would have made a tonne of newb gains... you will be surprised at how much lean mass you would have gained without taking any gear, now your pretty much ****ed tbh.... you could have gone natty till now gained a good amount of muscle and then started a *low *dose of AAS and you would get pretty much another set of newb gains!!! making you have probably more muscle mass than you do now and a healthier body!


and just think of all that lovely sexy hair u would have on ur head


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

Poke said:


> Well Im just saying you make the most gains when you first start bodybuilding natural and when you first start AAS, he started AAS at the same time as starting bodybuildingm and within a year was running huge cycles... Pretty much masted and IMO if he wants to keep the muscle mass he has (which tbh could have easily been gained naturally) without being too fat or gain muscle hes gonna have to be on AAS for life.


yep that is true, could have made those gains without gear.. i didnt actually read all of thread,skipped some,didn't realize he started straight away .


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Prodot said:


> Why do you run so much stuff man


Was experimenting mate. Wanted to know what effect it would have, how much better the gains would be, in all honesty I gained more in the first 10 weeks with 800mg test and 100mg dbol than I did running all that other stuff with 5000 calories per day


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Poke said:


> Can I just ask why you actually ran all that gear?
> 
> You only seriously starting lifting weights not even 2 years ago!!!!
> 
> TBH If you just didn't take any gear at all and started training natty (like any normal person would do) you would have made a tonne of newb gains... you will be surprised at how much lean mass you would have gained without taking any gear, now your pretty much ****ed tbh.... you could have gone natty till now gained a good amount of muscle and then started a *low *dose of AAS and you would get pretty much another set of newb gains!!! making you have probably more muscle mass than you do now and a healthier body!


Honestly I just didn't see the point in not using gear because I knew that I would always use it, and I always will. I would hardly call myself ****ed for life. And there's no way I would have made the same gains in 12 months naturally, not a ****ing chance. I was a puny little beiber boy when I started. And it's not like I did big cycles from the off, I did a measley little 20mg ed dbol then an even worse ph cycle which I may aswell had been taking creatine, then I had a load of time out of the gym before I did my decent cycle and gained about 30lb in the first 15 weeks or so with no increase in bf%. I weighed myself tonight at the gym, Iv actually only lost 7lb since coming off cycle and not training or eating much. My gains arnt going anywhere. I'm sorting my **** out as from today and in 10 weeks time I will be bigger and stronger than I ever have been.

Anyway... the point of this thread is about recovery, not about the decisions I made some 14 months ago


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> and just think of all that lovely sexy hair u would have on ur head


Luckily for me hair isn't needed when you'r a skin head :beer:


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> Honestly I just didn't see the point in not using gear because I knew that I would always use it, and I always will. I would hardly call myself ****ed for life. And there's no way I would have made the same gains in 12 months naturally, not a ****ing chance. I was a puny little beiber boy when I started. And it's not like I did big cycles from the off, I did a measley little 20mg ed dbol cycle followed by a fair amount of time off, then an even worse ph cycle which I may aswell had been taking creatine, then I had a load of time out of the gym before I did my decent cycle and gained about 30lb in the first 15 weeks or so with no increase in bf%. I weighed myself tonight at the gym, Iv actually only lost 7lb since coming off cycle and not training or eating much. My gains arnt going anywhere. I'm sorting my **** out as from today and in 10 weeks time I will be bigger and stronger than I ever have been.
> 
> Anyway... the point of this thread is about recovery, not about the decisions I made some 14 months ago


How do you know if you wouldnt have made the gains you have from being natural? Fact is you didnt even try lol you just jumped straight on so you dont know.

I just said, if you trained natural and started a *low* dose course of AAS a few months ago you would probably have the same muscle mass you do now if not more without putting all that crap in your body and wasting your money and health.

But like you say its in the past and you do what you want mate, just stating my opinion, when you make a thread like this and write out the course you were on after less than 2 years of starting training you should expect some comments like this.


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

End of the day, the OP did a self experiment, least you know now that you dont need that much gear.

I'd run a power PCT, then get bloods done after a month of finishing.

Next course, just cut the gear right back and go back to basics.

Thats just me, though, im no expert.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Poke said:


> How do you know if you wouldnt have made the gains you have from being natural? Fact is you didnt even try lol you just jumped straight on so you dont know.
> 
> I just said, if you trained natural and started a *low* dose course of AAS a few months ago you would probably have the same muscle mass you do now if not more without putting all that crap in your body and wasting your money and health.
> 
> But like you say its in the past and you do what you want mate, just stating my opinion, when you make a thread like this and write out the course you were on after less than 2 years of starting training you should expect some comments like this.


Of course he wouldnt have made the same gains natural, only an idiot would argue otherwise.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Of course he wouldnt have made the same gains natural, only an idiot would argue otherwise.


I agree, because I never said he would have made the same gains natural, as I clarified in the very post you quoted I said if he trained natural, and then recently jumped on the AAS even at low doeses he would likely have similar muscle mass to what he has now 

My point was, if he trained for a year natural and ate right he would have put on *allot* of lean mass as you should know, and then started his first AAS course again within a few months he would put on *allot of mass* meaning he could quite likely have the muscle mass he has now if not more.

But like I said, the past is the past he can do what he wants to do, just asked a question of why and stated my opinion, dont really want to drag it on and let him get the advice he needs, no need for you to not read my posts properly and try to carry on arguing with something I never even said.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Poke said:


> I agree, because I never said he would have made the same gains natural, as I clarified in the very post you quoted I said if he trained natural, and then recently jumped on the AAS even at low doeses he would likely have similar muscle mass to what he has now
> 
> My point was, if he trained for a year natural and ate right he would have put on *allot* of lean mass as you should know, and then started his first AAS course again within a few months he would put on *allot of mass* meaning he could quite likely have the muscle mass he has now if not more.
> 
> But like I said, the past is the past he can do what he wants to do, just asked a question of why and stated my opinion, dont really want to drag it on and let him get the advice he needs, no need for you to not read my posts properly and try to carry on arguing with something I never even said.


How is that even possible mate, unless all my gear was bunk? You are saying that natural gains are almost as good as test, deca and tren. Not ever ever never mate. Never. Ever.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> End of the day, the OP did a self experiment, least you know now that you dont need that much gear.
> 
> I'd run a power PCT, then get bloods done after a month of finishing.
> 
> ...


Not gonna do any pct mate, gonna roll without it and see how it goes but will deffo be getting bloods done probably in about a month's time, and yeah mate wail never go above a gram of test again, and never will run that amount of compounds. Gonna keep it fairly low and simple from now on 

Well.. I still wanna experiment with tren doses some more 600mg per week was good but I bet more would be better :lol:


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

IGotTekkers said:


> Not gonna do any pct mate, gonna roll without it and see how it goes but will deffo be getting bloods done probably in about a month's time, and yeah mate wail never go above a gram of test again, and never will run that amount of compounds. Gonna keep it fairly low and simple from now on


Ahh right I see.

Do you use HCG at all?

You may think you will never come off at this stage in your life, but later on I'll bet you will want too for one of a few reasons.

Upto you of course.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

I have literally just watched this video about a hour ago!



Poke said:


> There is a video on youtube of that Bios3training
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm considering HCG as my nuts have disappeared after a few weeks on, not gonna bother with a PCT either, got the meds if I need them but not gonna take em unless I feel I really have to.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> Ahh right I see.
> 
> Do you use HCG at all?
> 
> ...


No hcg mate even though I have 1500 ius in the drawer lol. I'm not gonna stay on now mate, just gonna cycle on and off sensibly now. Was gonna blast and cruise and run trt due to sex drive and mood but somehow it's not a problem anymore, it must have been psychological afterall. Fooking glad I came off tbh


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

It is likely that the gear has not left your system yet.

I would give it another month.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> How is that even possible mate, unless all my gear was bunk? You are saying that natural gains are almost as good as test, deca and tren. Not ever ever never mate. Never. Ever.


Never said anything like that mate...

You gain ALLOT of muscle in the first year of training naturally anyway (providing you have a good diet), and when you take your first course of steroids you gain allot more muscle again... Meaning its extremely possible that if you just did the above you could have the muscle mass you have now, without taking all them AAS.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Poke said:


> Never said anything like that mate...
> 
> You gain ALLOT of muscle in the first year of training naturally anyway (providing you have a good diet), and when you take your first course of steroids you gain allot more muscle again... Meaning its extremely possible that if you just did the above you could have the muscle mass you have now, without taking all them AAS.


So you ARE saying exactly that. You ARE saying that I would have made the exact same gains without gear as I did with gear. That is ridiculous.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

hackskii said:


> It is likely that the gear has not left your system yet.
> 
> I would give it another month.


Even after almost 9 weeks?

If so would you suggest a power pct? If the gear really hasn't left my system yet then I'll probably do one, but I do feel like I'm on the recovering side. I guess blood tests are the only way to know.


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

What's your YouTube channel?


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

It could still be in your system, however I've came off without using a PCT and felt fine a few months afterwards. I think your age plays a factor.


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm sorry op

But if that's you in your avi then your gear was all bunk?

If not can you please post a recent pic, I'm expecting you to be a fucck of monster after a course like that


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> So you ARE saying exactly that. You ARE saying that I would have made the exact same gains without gear as I did with gear. That is ridiculous.


Can you even read? You are rediculous mate learn to read.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Poke said:


> Can you even read? You are rediculous mate learn to read.


I find your posts more rediculous , banging on about his gear use and shoulda been natty. He's come on for advice after using such dosages and has admitted his errors.will now see his test/androgens are still active and needs a strong power PCT

Make your posts atleast a little relevant to the OP


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

and i thought the doses of gear i was using was fairly brutal totalling 1.7g (including 100mg of anavar per day), yours totals at 4.2g , 1.8g being orals lmao.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

str4nger said:


> I'm sorry op
> 
> But if that's you in your avi then your gear was all bunk?
> 
> If not can you please post a recent pic, I'm expecting you to be a fucck of monster after a course like that


Yeah the gear was all bunk because I didn't become Phil heath in 1 cycle

This was week 1



This was towards the end



So yeah, those are natty traps, no increased androgen activity at all mate :whistling:


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Robbie said:


> What's your YouTube channel?


I don't want it linked here mate. It's old anyway I don't even update it anymore


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## str4nger (Jul 17, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> Yeah the gear was all bunk because I didn't become Phil heath in 1 cycle
> 
> This was week 1
> 
> ...


well you look alot better in those pics then in your avi

How much did you put on with that cycle?


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

Definitely didnt gain what you should have off that amount of gear, but criticising your gains isnt what Im aiming at here.

I did something similar when I first started using gear and used way too much, to the point where I couldnt eat through the amount of orals etc. Was just plain silly, but we live and learn!

You are feeling fine, so thats good mate.


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## Jay Walker (Jun 24, 2003)

marknorthumbria said:


> I find your posts more rediculous , banging on about his gear use and shoulda been natty. He's come on for advice after using such dosages and has admitted his errors.will now see his test/androgens are still active and needs a strong power PCT
> 
> Make your posts atleast a little relevant to the OP


You know, I agree with this, people seem too quick to want to shoot people down on here.

Help a brother out!


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Jay Walker said:


> Definitely didnt gain what you should have off that amount of gear, but criticising your gains isnt what Im aiming at here.
> 
> I did something similar when I first started using gear and used way too much, to the point where I couldnt eat through the amount of orals etc. Was just plain silly, but we live and learn!
> 
> You are feeling fine, so thats good mate.


What I realised is that it doesn't matter how much gear you take, you can only grow so Much. I don't agree that I should have gained more, because I didn't, I ate 5000 cals per day and my training was good. Can't do anymore than my bestest.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2013)

after using that amount of AASi'd do the power PCT tbh , at least then you wont have to wait around to see if you recover naturally.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

str4nger said:


> well you look alot better in those pics then in your avi
> 
> How much did you put on with that cycle?


I think I gained just under 30lb in the first 15 weeks, after that the gains slowed right down and I just got a bit stronger, no more weight.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

marknorthumbria said:


> I find your posts more rediculous , banging on about his gear use and shoulda been natty. He's come on for advice after using such dosages and has admitted his errors.will now see his test/androgens are still active and needs a strong power PCT
> 
> Make your posts atleast a little relevant to the OP


All I did was ask along with a number of others why he was running that course and stated my opinion which is to be expected considering the thread. It's not my fault if he or others want to provoke some sort of argument about it, I said I wanted to leave it and not ruin the thread, but he kept replying without even understanding what he was replying to saying my comment was basically rediculous and misunderstanding it multiple times when it actually wasnt at all.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

IGotTekkers said:


> Even after almost 9 weeks?
> 
> If so would you suggest a power pct? If the gear really hasn't left my system yet then I'll probably do one, but I do feel like I'm on the recovering side. I guess blood tests are the only way to know.


It is possible that some of it may still be in your system.

If not and you feel great then id say no need to do anything.

But if you crash, then probably need some intervention.


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

Poke said:


> There is a video on youtube of that Bios3training
> 
> 
> 
> ...


bollocks, muscle mass is muscle mass, until you go past your 'limit' it doesn't matter how or what you used to build it


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

just read the entire thread, @Poke what sort of shape are you in? to start lecturing people like that i'd hope you were in atleast similar shape to the OP.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> just read the entire thread, @Poke what sort of shape are you in? to start lecturing people like that i'd hope you were in atleast similar shape to the OP.


In all honesty better shape, and thats with only 1 year back training from a 2 year lay off where I was 16 stone with hardly any muscle mass and only 1 month since starting AAS and not all bloated up on naps and dbol.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> bollocks, muscle mass is muscle mass, until you go past your 'limit' it doesn't matter how or what you used to build it


Yeh I think judging by your avi you know more than people I got that information off...

Your just spouting bro science without even knowing what your talking about mate, anyone can sit there and call something bs just because they don't agree.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2013)

Lew1s said:


> bollocks, muscle mass is muscle mass, until you go past your 'limit' it doesn't matter how or what you used to build it


 I agree with this. I think he says it in a way that assumes everyone has surpassed their genetic limits and are 250-300lb monsters.

The guy uses Kev Levrone as an example for some of things - fair enough to maintain a 300lb physique like he had you need drugs and inevitably will lose size when you come off but even now off the drugs Levrone is still big compared to your average gym goer.


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

Poke said:


> In all honesty better shape, and thats with only 1 year back training from a 2 year lay off where I was 16 stone with hardly any muscle mass and only 1 month since starting AAS and not all bloated up on naps and dbol.


i don't care about all the fine little details you want to add in, put a pic up of yourself or just have an avi before you start forcing your opinion on people like its fact you stupid cvnt. I bet you look like a sack of sh1te. Funny how you're trying to belittle what I look like compared to the 'people you got the information off' and not yourself cause as I said I bet you look w4nk :lol:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

RS86 said:


> I agree with this. I think he says it in a way that assumes everyone has surpassed their genetic limits and are 250-300lb monsters.
> 
> The guy uses Kev Levrone as an example for some of things - fair enough to maintain a 300lb physique like he had you need drugs and inevitably will lose size when you come off but even now off the drugs Levrone is still big compared to your average gym goer.


Did kev levrone continue with training and diet or did he just decide to stop the lot? Can't say I am too clued on bbing.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2013)

kingdale said:


> Did kev levrone continue with training and diet or did he just decide to stop the lot? Can't say I am too clued on bbing.


He lost a lot of size so couldn't really say if he stop training for a while or not. I have heard stories that even in his prime he only trained 6 months of the year though so he may have. Certainly not running drugs like he used to now.

He started doing videos where he basically built back up from normal muscular size to being fairly big and muscular again (not to the same extent as his competing days though) and he did it pretty quickly. May have been natural as he has obviously had the size before, genetics and knows what he needs to do to grow. But even before he was still holding some decent mass.

I suppose most of these guys may be on TRT at the least so probs not a great example of how you could hold mass up to your genetic limits off gear though


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> i don't care about all the fine little details you want to add in, put a pic up of yourself or just have an avi before you start forcing your opinion on people like its fact you stupid cvnt. I bet you look like a sack of sh1te. Funny how you're trying to belittle what I look like compared to the 'people you got the information off' and not yourself cause as I said I bet you look w4nk :lol:


Well it seems you dont know how to read properly mate because I never said anything as fact in the slightest.

I said what I have heard from multiple high level experienced steroid users (who have been on steroids longer than you have been alive) mentioning that I believe them AND CLEARLY ADDING A VIDEO OF ONE OF THE GUYS SAYING IT IN THE POST, and expressed my opinion.

If you dont like that then say so, but there is nothing wrong with it and dont accuse me of doing something I haven't done then throw your toys out your pram and call me swear words and say I look like a fat slob you aggravated pr!ck.

You called some information from very experienced steroid users BS like it is *FACT* (unlike what I did) *AND LOOK AT YOU*, do you even do steroids mate? Im serious on that one because you look natural, how can you dismiss something as BS like fact and attack me (even though I never said it as fact) when you don't have the experience yourself? Just share your *opinion* if you think its wrong.

I can assure you I dont look like a sack of **** mate, bit fat atm after bulk at about 20% but 16 stone at 5"11, but the thing is I never said I looked amazing (have only been back lifting for a year and only started AAS 4 weeks ago) because *my information and opinion was based on other very experienced users*, and *also my statement of what can be attained naturally for a year AND THEN starting steroids is based on my own experience.*

Ill get a pic if I can mate, like I said dont look amazing and never said I did or even what I said doesnt mean I should as it isnt based on my experience (apart from what can be attained naturally), but I dont look like **** lol.


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

I have the exp myself, don't need to explain myself or the details to anybody but if you genuinely think that ALL steroid gains (before or after 'limits' are reached) will cease to exist without gear you're either just an idiot or an idiot who gains water and strength only when on cycle


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> I have the exp myself, don't need to explain myself or the details to anybody but if you genuinely think that ALL steroid gains (before or after 'limits' are reached) will cease to exist without gear you're either just an idiot or an idiot who gains water and strength only when on cycle


You dont have the experience to say that what the guy in the video and a few other bodybuilders said is 'BS' like its fact though, and your calling me the one trying to push BS facts on people? I just shared a video from a very experienced user and said I believed it.. and shared my opinion, I also never said you will lose ALL steroid gains, I said "you *may likely* shrink down *close* to what you were naturally before taking roids if you dont take any more steroids and just stay off.

Also like I said, Im on my first cycle of test/tren/mast at 300mg p/w now on week 3 (also did anavar on its own for 4 weeks before this but just said what the hell) You are acting like what I have said is based on my experience, *ITS CLEARLY NOT* if you can read, you want to apologize for calling me all the names under the sun and attacking me? because I really didnt deserve it, will get that pic for you if you want (even though its not needed in my case as my information was based on other people, not myself apart from what you can gain naturally in a year and *then* start AAS instead of just jumpin on AAS on your first day of even training!)


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> I bet you look like a sack of sh1te. Funny how you're trying to belittle what I look like compared to the 'people you got the information off' and not yourself cause as I said I bet you look w4nk :lol:


Here you go, even though as I said, I never said I looked good, and my information and opinion came from other very experienced BBer's which I even included the video of in my post, so a picture of what I look like is no use for that, but I suppose is use to my claim that he could have a similar amount of muscle mass to what he has now if you trained natural for a year and then jumped on the roids for a month (as apposed to jumping on the AAS straight away) because that is what Ive done here...

And this is on week 3 of my first course after back training for 1 year (was 16 stone and hardly any muscle mass was sick for 2 years) of test/tren/mast at 300mg and pretty flat as Im cutting, as you can tell also, no bloat, just solid mass. Not saying I look good or anything because I dont look that good (train more for strength anyway really) but you said I look like **** and talked to my like a cvnt then asked for a pic thinking I wouldnt give you one so...





5"11 16 stone, around 20% bf at a guess, callipers say im 12% but I call that certain BS lol.

Now, I never said you look bad or anything, but after you saying like fact that those very experinced users opinion was BS, I just said how can you call it that liek fact and have a go at me about when you look liek that... you look like youv'e never even touched a steroid mate tbh, you little weasel go and do some core work you have the midsection of a 13 year old boy (see im dropping down to your level now  liek it?)

Would just like to say I was polite to you in all my posts, you rared up at me and called me a cvnt talking to me like Im some sort of complete pr**k very rudely and said I was probably a fat **** sitting there doing **** all ect... *you are a true cvnt mate* I didnt deserve that I didnt act badly towards you, grow up you little brat.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Steroids do build muscle, but after it is all said and done, you will not be able to be as strong, or as big, as you genetically can not hold on to hormonally.

So, if your max bench for example was 290, and you got up to 335 for instance, once you are off gear, over time, you will go back down to 290 where your genetic limit is at, providing the technique is the same of course.

Same with the muscle mass.

Lets say your arms tape at 15 3/4", and that was the biggest you could get your arm naturally, you go on gear, and get them to 17", get off gear, and if you are about the same weight down the road, they will end up being 15 3/4".

So, you can reach your genetic limit then do a cycle and pass your genetic limit, or not be at your genetic limit and get to there and or pass it with steroids.

Either way, I have no issues with that, but I have seen guys that are on gear that makes me wonder if they even lift.

I mean, we all got to start somewhere, if you want to speed that up, cool, but don't bitch about the sides, or not being able to recover very easy once you come off as taking this stuff is all about personal choice.

I have used gear many years, and first course was 30 years ago.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

hackskii said:


> Steroids do build muscle, but after it is all said and done, you will not be able to be as strong, or as big, as you genetically can not hold on to hormonally.
> 
> So, if your max bench for example was 290, and you got up to 335 for instance, once you are off gear, over time, you will go back down to 290 where your genetic limit is at, providing the technique is the same of course.
> 
> ...


This is the sort of post I would expect to contradict mine, someone with the actual experience and who speaks politely  and dont throw their toys out the pram mis understand what they are replying to and start harassing and and calling the poster a fat slob! lol

I also agree on the "but I have seen guys that are on gear that makes me wonder if they even lift." part lol (naming no names)


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I have also seen a guy on tren before that got 2 years of growth in 12 weeks, and got stronger than I have ever seen in a short period of time.

But then he got sick, he looked wrong in the eyes and face, but he got sick, laid off and lost everything.

Dude looked so freaking good it was not funny, the gains were a miracle, then his loss was as fast as the gains.

Dude did 405 pounds behind the neck presses on the smith machine.


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## Paz1982 (Dec 16, 2012)

Poke said:


> You dont have the experience to say that what the guy in the video and a few other bodybuilders said is 'BS' like its fact though, and your calling me the one trying to push BS facts on people? I just shared a video from a very experienced user and said I believed it.. and shared my opinion, I also never said you will lose ALL steroid gains, I said "*you **may likely* shrink down *close* to what you were naturally before taking roids if you dont take any more steroids and just stay off.
> 
> Also like I said, Im on my first cycle of test/tren/mast at 300mg p/w now on week 3 (also did anavar on its own for 4 weeks before this but just said what the hell) You are acting like what I have said is based on my experience, *ITS CLEARLY NOT* if you can read, you want to apologize for calling me all the names under the sun and attacking me? because I really didnt deserve it, will get that pic for you if you want (even though its not needed in my case as my information was based on other people, not myself apart from what you can gain naturally in a year and *then* start AAS instead of just jumpin on AAS on your first day of even training!)


I don't think this statement is true... if you are gaining muscle mass below your natural limit, with or without AAS then it is still muscle mass. the only weight you will lose when coming off will be water.

edit= obviously you would have to keep diet and training the same


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Paz1982 said:


> I don't think this statement is true... if you are gaining muscle mass below your natural limit, with or without AAS then it is still muscle mass. the only weight you will lose when coming off will be water.
> 
> edit= obviously you would have to keep diet and training the same


Notice I said "you may" and not "you will" 

Also, I wasn't just talking about stopping for 1 day, like 3/4+ months


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, to be fair, I know a guy that used deca for some time, when he came off he took a year to recover fully.

Testosterone levels of a girl would be hard to sustain gains one made on gear.


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

Poke said:


> Here you go, even though as I said, I never said I looked good, and my information and opinion came from other very experienced BBer's which I even included the video of in my post, so a picture of what I look like is no use for that, but I suppose is use to my claim that he could have a similar amount of muscle mass to what he has now if you trained natural for a year and then jumped on the roids for a month (as apposed to jumping on the AAS straight away) because that is what Ive done here...
> 
> And this is on week 3 of my first course after back training for 1 year (was 16 stone and hardly any muscle mass was sick for 2 years) of test/tren/mast at 300mg and pretty flat as Im cutting, as you can tell also, no bloat, just solid mass. Not saying I look good or anything because I dont look that good (train more for strength anyway really) but you said I look like **** and talked to my like a cvnt then asked for a pic thinking I wouldnt give you one so...
> 
> ...


id sooner have the 'mid section of a 13 year old boy' than the pregnant/child bearing hips look you're going for


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Knock off all the petty crap guys, no more hijacking of this guys journal.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> id sooner have the 'mid section of a 13 year old boy' than the pregnant/child bearing hips look you're going for


They are called obliques and glutes my friend 

You need to get training and eating mate, if your on AAS then it must be bunk.

I never even talked rude to you or anything, you just didnt like what I said, misunderstood it, and started calling me a cvnt and **** and saying I must look like complete ****, I never even said you look bad or anything.

You made yourself look like a right tool.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Guys, just let it go, just stop.

Last I checked I am still a mod, and you might want to listen while I still have patience.


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

So is Hulk Hogan still on gear at his age being the size he is?


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## Smoog (Dec 29, 2012)

I think this thread is beyond recovery.


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