# DIANABOL ONLY CYCLE (FIRST TIME USER)



## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

Need your help mates.. i had started a thread previously cant locate it... and im in too much of a hurry to find it now..

got on a dianabol only cycle 2 days back with the Thai Blue hearts 10mg each...

Taking 30 mg a day spread thruout the day... 10mg with breakfast 10mg with lunch and 10 mg preworkout ( i train at 9pm)

now.. my diet looks something like this :

(10am) breakfast :

10 egg white 100 grams white oats with dry fruits (

(12.30pm)

1 scoop gaspari myofusion with 2 bananas in a shake with 200ml milk

(2.30pm)

lunch : 150 grams of chicken with rice and potatoes

(5.00pm)

rice with 80 grams of chicken

(7.00pm)

4 egg whites/fruits

(8.00pm)

whey + water

(10.00pm post workout)

whey + water + creatine

(11.30pm)

chicken/turkey + rice

My only goal is to bulk up hence im eating soo much rice.. will change diet when i want to get ripped.

i have some serious DOMS in my calves (i trained them on monday and they started aching today i.e wednesday ) like serious PAIN cant walk....also feeling a little tired during the day.... i have nolva around... what wud a gud PCT be ??? please help me out mates.. first time roid cycle.. dont wanna shut anything down...


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## Harry1436114491 (Oct 8, 2003)

Here it is bud...

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/48035-diabol-5-a.html


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

yea.. last time around i wasnt good with the follow up and had to stop the cycle in 4 days.. i had personal issues.. this time around im good to go...already on day 3 with a solid diet.. and some heavy ass lifting..


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

oks ive finished my 1st Dbol cycle this week see heres my finding to help u m8

I did an 8 week cyle starting at 20mg ending up last few weeks upto 50mg, this is parts of a mini log i did to maybe help u.. began with 5mg Dianabol, ran out and got 10mg dianabols then half way thru cycle.....

Starting 5mg tabs where =

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/aas-picture-board/50127-real-fake-anabol-british-dispensary-pics.html then 10mg i got before they ran out...

1st day (5mg tabs)-

10mg (x2 5mg today) 10am x1 10.35am x1 slight overlap tiredness feeling from 2nd tab, then training was good, felt good rest of the day also really hungry.. Sleep pattern = fell asleep ok woke up a few times in the night then fell back asleep only 10mg today to test sleeping on them..

2nd day (5mg tabs)-

20mg today 10mg x2 at 10.30am, 11am felt overlap tiredness rested for 35mins then felt ok (think i need to take 5mg staggard upto 60mins between each!)

Training then had a big lunch after was starvin marvin, felt good on set again, feel good after set

3rd day (5mg tabs)-

Staggering dose x1 10:30 x1 12:30 x1 15:30 training felt strong, had x1 30 mins into set as felt it draining a bit, kicked in great on last set after 15 mins for last few on shoulder presses, 1/2 litre cran juice today.. slept well woke up a few times in the night but fell back asleep

4th day (5mg tabs) -

x1 10:30 x1 12:30 x1.1/2 15:15 x1/2 16:00 x6 Training GOOD-GREAT pumps all round, might try x2 tabs 15-30 mins before training tomorrow instead of 1.5 before. Liv.52 arrived today had 1 with meal + multivit with iron.. slept like a baby

5th day (5mg tabs) -

40 min cardio 10:30, [email protected]:00 started training @13:15 x2 more tabs also feeling effects of bol, GOOD Strong throughout feeling good, feel like I could easy carry on.. but stopped not to overtrain.. slept well

6th day (5mg tabs)-

[email protected]:00 forgot mornins with brekky(naughty) trg 15:20-16:30 x2 tabs @15:30 worked well felt Good throughout took liv.52 with meal and multivit

Week 2-8 bol log findings...

Pumps now in MOST training sessions are good! specially arms, love doing arms sets, max pumps lasting in my arms for at least 30 mins after! Chest pumps good in last 2 sets same with back... but only lasts for about 15 min...

Do get the odd taining day where pumps are 50%, like 1 in 10 days...

Also with pumps , I started cardio (30-40 mins treadmill) 3-4 times per week from week 3 and found the pumps you get in your calves can be painfull and I stopped once or twice in week 2 and sacked the cardio then due to the pain.. THEN I found using IBrufen Gel and applying 1cm rubbed into each calf untill sticky to dry touch and allowed to absorb 10 mins before cardio has now allowed me to Do cardio NEARLY as normal, you do get pumps but only 1/4 as bad as before! Thank god for Ibrufen gel 5% (Get it from Asda! lol)

Sleep pattern is ok now (week 2) as body seems used to the tabs, as woke up a few times in 1st week of cycle.. also the tiredness drug feeling was due to 1st week dbol overlapping, not getting this now in 2nd - 8th week as body is used to dbol

I love the dbol energy feeling you get after taking them, feels like your coming up slightly and my mind focuses and body seems to say lets go! Even got this when tiredish sometimes and had the tabs to train and it kicked me up the ass to train.. As when on creatine id probably of sacked the training session...Sorry! lol

Week 3 upped dose to 25mg per day (taking x1 with breakfast, x3 before training and x1 after training)

Week 4 same

Week 5 Upped dose to 35mg (Due to not getting bol rush,aggression before training and pumps felt lower.. once dose up back to good pumps and training aggression and feeling good after training)

week 6 same

week 7 Upped dose to 45mg (Due to not getting bol rush,aggression before training and pumps felt lower.. once dose up back to good pumps and training aggression and feeling good after training)

Week 8 as above upped to 50mg (Bodys getting far to used to Dbol now, CONCLUSION only 4-6 week cycle needed for myself any longer feels a waste of dbol and gains not as good as 1st 4 weeks!)

Summary - Overall I Really get on with dbol, only fluctuations where the 1st week until I worked out what was best way for me to take the tabs aka banging the days dosage all at once does not work for me and gave me bol overlap tiredness, however x1 with breakfast to get some dbol in the body and then the main bulk of the dose 30mins before training made me feel concentrated and motivated and feeling good! then x1 after training to level out... Also I didnt need to train legs at they got strong/BIG from cardio!

Over the 8 weeks week 1-4 where the best and week 7-8 where kinda like rundown weeks, my next cycle will be 4-6 weeks max but for now im running 4 weeks CLOMID (Clomiphene citrate) PCT with NOLVADEX (Tamoxifen) on hand for Gyno, I experiend NO Gyno throughout the cycle BUT did suffer slight Water retention on the belly area and legs slightly.. I did get PROVIRON (UK-Schering) for the water retention/bloat and I tried it for 2 days, fook me I was peeing all day 1st day, BUT the bloat went and I looked better! This was in week 6, so decided to take no more and save it for 2nd cycle..

I took Multvit+liv52 Double strength every 2 days, and drank 25% Cranberry juice every 3-4 days 1 litre, personally I think this really helped my liver as the 1st few days I tried this I felt really good!

Also drank loads of water for health 1-3 litres per day, this also keep bloat down as the more u drink the less the body stores as it doesnt feel it needs to hold onto water then (due to dbol) Also cardio helped a LOT with bloat as well...

Ohhh and they kill my sex drive and balls shrunk a little... So bring on the Clomid on PCT!! ha ha

EDIT 21:10 Naughty Naughty bit - I also had a couple of drinks, max 3 about 5 times over the whole cycle... :innocent: Before each time forced to go out I took double dose of Liv52 and felt much better in the morning..

Hope this helps

Before anyone kicks off, this is my TRUE part unedited/no blag 1st cycle of how things where for me. if it helps at all im happy..

Any questions just ask me...

Sid


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

sid2503 said:


> oks ive finished my 1st Dbol cycle this week see heres my finding to help u m8
> 
> I did an 8 week cyle starting at 20mg ending up last few weeks upto 50mg, this is parts of a mini log i did to maybe help u.. began with 5mg Dianabol, ran out and got 10mg dianabols then half way thru cycle.....
> 
> ...


What a complete waste of a short dbol cycle, you would have got much better results if you had ran a consistent dose of say 40mg through the whole cycle.

As for the multi vit and liv 52, it might have made you feel better but it certainly wasn't neccessary for you're liver.

Thats the way you ran it and fair enough thats you're choice, i'm just saying i wouldn't recommend this approach to anyone thinking of running a dbol only cycle.


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

^^^ My body wouldn't have took 40mg straight away, and the cycle worked fine for me and I have Good gains and Good strength increases...

I upped the dose cos at week 5 25mg wasnt giving me the pumps as the 1st 4 weeks at 20-25mg which where giving me Great pumps all through the 4 weeks...

And if u read my conclusion you would have seen that I said in my next cycle I will only do a 4-6week max cycle, more probably 4.... In which I now know how my body handle and reacts to Dbol and what doseage works for me..

Multivit was for general everyday, and Dbol is Liver TOXIC and ive researched on here that Liv52 can help the liver in processing the toxins and it worked for me! and I will be using it next cycle with Cran juice..

Sid


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Oh i see, ok then sid.


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

dc55 said:


> YES IT WOULD.....


It was my 1st cycle, and I wanted to start on 20mg of a DRUG that I had never had before and had the potential to seriously fcuk me up..

And as ive said I am very happy with the gains/pumps/strength for the 1st 4 weeks then I upped the doseage as my body was getting used to the Dbol... the rest ive already posted how it went...

I learnt a hell of a lot during the cycle on how my body handled, reacted and tolorated Dianabol over a long period of time...

When I do my next cycle I will obviously be using more doseage now I know how my body handles the drug

Sid


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

sid2503 said:


> oks ive finished my 1st Dbol cycle this week see heres my finding to help u m8
> 
> I did an 8 week cyle starting at 20mg ending up last few weeks upto 50mg, this is parts of a mini log i did to maybe help u.. began with 5mg Dianabol, ran out and got 10mg dianabols then half way thru cycle.....
> 
> ...


SID, how much of the gains did u keep ? cuz for me.. im doing 30mg and keeping at 30mg of dbol thruout the 6 week cycle and im really want to keep atleast 50% of gains made.. as for my stats... im 70kgs with 15" arms... bench about 80kgs un-assisted.. squat 110kgs un-assisted... today was only my second day on the d-bol.. lets see how it goes.. for now i only have NOLVA with me.. i really dont want to think about ball shrink.. and low sex drive.. so the minute im closing the dbol cycle i was thinking of taking MHP T-BOMB 2 (unless u lads have a better option)


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

dc55 said:


> And how's that mate??? :cursing:


What the FCUK are you going on about?? STOP thread crapping! I'm just telling the guy my dbol cycle ...

clicketyclack -

Well the 2 days I Had PROVIRON I must say my sex drive did seem to shoot back up.. So you could try that yourself whilst on cycle...

For my next cycle I may take PROVIRON everyday or Every other day... for the bloat and sex drive 

Im on Creatine now during PCT, And I dont seem to have lost much gains..

Sid


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

dc55 said:


> What was it you needed help on mate??
> 
> Your diet looks ok apart from its lacking in ANY fats. Try natty PB, nuts, oily fish, olive oil.
> 
> ...


By AI you mean Aromatase Inhibiter ? im a little low on the slang since its my first cycle... i will have to score the clomid.. nolva i have. By drinking lots of water u mean 3-4 litres daily ? cuz i already do that... im also taking an organic liver protector.... being my first cycle i wanna see how i handle it.. after which i plan on SUST-250 with Dbol


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

some bits u need/may need -

*CLOMID (Clomiphene citrate) PCT Post Cycle Therapy - Kick start your natural testosterone production*

Clomid is a synthetic estrogen, similar to Nolvadex. It is especially beneficial at the conclusion of a steroid cycle. Clomiphene citrate is typically prescribed for women to aid in ovulation.

In men, the application of Clomid causes an elevation of follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. As a result, natural testosterone production is also increased. This effect is obviously beneficial to the athlete, especially at the conclusion of a steroid cycle when endogenous testosterone levels are subnormal.

When an athlete discontinues the use of steroids, his testosterone levels will most likely be suppressed. If endogenous testosterone levels are not brought to normal, a dramatic loss in size and strength may occur.

Clomid plays a crucial role in preventing this crash in athletic performance. Bodybuilders find that a daily intake of 50-100 mg of clomiphene citrate over a two week period will bring endogenous testosterone production back to an acceptable level. Clomid will gradually raise testosterone levels over its period of intake. Since an immediate boost in testosterone is often desirable, athlete will commonly use HCG (human choronic gonadotropin) for a couple of weeks, and the continue treatment with Clomid. Clomid is also effective as an anti-estrogen. Most athletes will suffer from an elevated estrogen level at the conclusion of a cycle. A high estrogen level combined with a low testosterone level puts an athlete in serious risk of developing gynocomastia. With the intake of Clomid, the athlete gets the dual effect of blocking out some of the effects of estrogen, while also increasing endogenous testosterone production.

*PROVIRON (UK-Schering) Bloat/water retention / Sex drive / libido*

*
*

Among athletes Proviron is primarily used as an antiestrogen. It is believed to act as an antiaromatase in the body, preventing or slowing the conversion of steroids into estrogen. The result is somewhat comparable to Arimidex (though less profound), the drug acting to prevent the buildup of estrogen in the body. This effect of Proviron is in contrast to Nolvadex, which only blocks the ability of estrogen to bind and activate receptors in certain tissues. The anti-aromatization effect is preferred, as it is a more direct and efficient means of dealing with the problem of estrogenic side effects. A related disadvantage to Nolvadex is that if discontinued too early, a rebound effect may occur as high serum estrogen levels are again free to take action. This of course could mean a rapid onset of side effects such as gynecomastia and water retention. Most athletes actually prefer to use both Mesterolone and Nolvadex, especially during strongly estrogenic cycles. Proviron and Nolvadex attack estrogen at a different angle, side effects are often greatly minimized.

*NOLVADEX (Tamoxifen) Helps prevent bitch tits / man boobs if u get itchy nipped, puffy nipples, dots around nippes puffy or joining swollen (Luckily I didnt see any of this!)*

Commonly known as tamoxifen citrate, is a non-steroidal agent that demonstrates potent antiestrogenic properties. Nolvadex actually has quite a few applications for the steroid using athlete.

First and foremost, its most common use is for the prevention of gynocomastia. Nolvadex does this by actually competing for the receptor site in breast tissue, and binding to it. Thus, we can safely say that the effect of tamoxifen is through estrogen receptor blockade of breast tissue (1), especially since total body estradiol increases with use of tamoxifen.

Clearly, if you are on a cycle which includes steroids which convert to estrogen, you may want to consider nolvadex as a good choice to run along side them.

Sid


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

dc55 said:


> Ok sweetheart...... :lol:
> 
> You obviously know what your doing, so i'll let you be!! fu(king idiot.
> 
> ...


Allright i appreciate the inputs. thank you. so for now i will jst be on my 30mg hearts for the next 6 weeks.. and go onto the liver protector when done... will keep water intake at 3-4 litres and 2-3 glasses of some cran.. PCT prescribed by u was clomid at 100-50-50 if im not wrong ... anyway i will look it up on ur thread... will have to source the clomid... a test supp like MHP T-BOMB 2 wont do much u reckon ?


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

^^^ Damn this forums going to the dogs..

You cant even help sum1 without someone jumping down your throat!

And by lashed up, I meant I went out sociably a couple of time and had a few beers, bad choice of words maybe YES, thats just what they call it round here... my bad!

Fcuk me I wont post and help noone out AGAIN!! Nice one dc55!!!

Also I dont want to particualy inject yet, thats a personal choice....

Sid


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

dc55 said:


> And how's that mate??? :cursing:


EVER heard of side effects?? jeez did you do NO research before you started?? :001_tt2:

this may help you - http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/21176-steroid-side-effects-must-read-b4-you-start-course.html

In which I encountered 2, shrunken balls and lower libido!

So yes they are middle-minor sides but compared to other sides you can get (Bitch tits/man boobs ,Hair loss, Yellow stained eyes, Tumours, Liver damage, risk of heart disease, myocardial hypertrophy (enlarged heart), high blood pressure,  Impotence (post cycle), sterility (Azoospermia), , infertility, Increased cancer risk, reduced Immune system)

Need I go on?????????

This isn't CREATINE your taking it's Anabolic Steroid's my friend!

Well I'm glad I know the risks, and I'm glad I now know after a medium-careful cycle what my body can handle READY for my next cycle..

Sid :2guns:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/general-conversation/20136-hairloss.html]


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## ba baracuss (Apr 26, 2004)

UK Anaboics 2009

Author: Sid 2503.


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

its 4am and im up with some serious pain in my calves.... i had a heavy calf session on monday .... the pain is unbearable.. cant stand straight :lol:


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

firstly sid dont be offended, dc knows his stuff, its not that anyone didnt appreciate the time you took with your post its just that some of the things you wrote defied convention and others were just wrong. as the original question is from a newbie it was important to point out that your account was not nessersaryy the best way to go.

ive done dbol only cycles (i think most have) on my first i went from 40 per day to 50 and found that the best level.

as far as the original quetion regarding painful pumps in your calf (i got these in my back) i found drink extra water helped and to be honest took pain killers. i got over them by the start of the second week..


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

clicketyclack said:


> its 4am and im up with some serious pain in my calves.... i had a heavy calf session on monday .... the pain is unbearable.. cant stand straight :lol:


As I said , get some Ibrufen gel 5% (about £4 from asda) then you can apply it and the pain will subside :thumb:


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

sid2503 said:


> Fcuk me I wont post and help noone out AGAIN!! Nice one dc55!!!


Oh goodie, can you stop cutting and pasting rubbish too:lol:.

Got a right one here Dave:whistling:.


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

so... im drinking close to 4-5 liters of water and the calf pain is down to zero.... had half a liter of cran juice too.. hunger is up.. and today i wasnt feeling tired.. had a usual bust a ball day


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

T-BOMB 2 isnt all that great, I bought it and found it to be rather expensive but nothing for me in regards to recovery.

Save your money.

Trib is a joke too, go for the ZMA at night on an empty stomach.

Clomid is the stuff bro, I take it but 100mg ED for 4 weeks, you wont need to do all that because a month or 6 weeks isnt all that supressive.

Nolva can be ran at 20mg ED and that is all you will need, it wont offer any more benefits over 20mg and it is a bit of a liver tox too so no need to push things here.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Well before planning any other cycles, learn about pct dude...how old are you also, and what is your history with training....

dbol will unfortunately give you agonizing pumps, I get it terrible especially calfs and back pumps......


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

hackskii said:


> T-BOMB 2 isnt all that great, I bought it and found it to be rather expensive but nothing for me in regards to recovery.
> 
> Save your money.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info braaa !!

stocking up on clomid tomw !!


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

dc55 said:


> So click...
> 
> Whats your PCT look like?
> 
> ...


My diet is listed on page 1.. and im runing dbol at 30mg ed for 6 weeks.. no weekend off.. taking them on non training days too.. i have a 3 day on 1 day off training split.


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## Greenbank (Mar 4, 2009)

Yo Click, I read earlier that you were worried about ball shrink and loss of libido, well i'm 5 weeks today on the same course as you and I haven't experienced either of theses sides. To be honest the only apparent side effect has been lower back pumps after squating which makes the subsequent exercises a bit uncomfortable but you just get through it. Also feeling a little lethargic yesterday and today but I feel that may be because I'm 5 weeks in, again nothing that stops me just getting on with things.

Hope this helps, good luck mate.


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## riga (Feb 8, 2008)

Like the guys have said. Drink load's of water an the pumps wont cause you any worry. Click- course sound's good, Do pct as guy's have advised an you cant do wrong. Be good to see how you get on mate let us know.


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

wil be taking pictures today post training... will upload


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

Okay.. havent taken any pictures.. its my fifth week now.. going strong.. no sides what so ever.. had very mild nipple soreness but it went away in about 2 days.... going real heavy .. and eating like a beast.. hungry every 2 hours doing about 5,600 calories a day.

gained 8kgs so far...

no my question is this... an experienced gear user who works out the same time i do noticed and asked me if i was on dbol only.. or pinning too.. when i told him i was doing dbol only.. he told me it wud be a waste of time.. and to include sust-250 for 4 weeks at 250mg a week... he told me i cud start now... wat u do u lads think ?? which means.. i was on dbol only for 5 weeks and start sust-250 with one more week to go on dbol.. stop dbol after about 10 days.. and continue with sust-250 ...for my pct he asked me to go for clomid + nolva....

lemme knw !!


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## sid2503 (Jan 28, 2009)

Glad to see its going well!

What training routine are are you doing in your split?

Sid


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

dc55 said:


> This is the thing that annoyed me. He was trying to say he knew what he was doing and by his first couple of posts it was quite evident that he "doesn't". By copy and pasting random [email protected], it showed me no evidence that he knew what he was on about!!!
> 
> He then had the cheek to try and patronise me about sides of AAS etc etc.... :cursing: and try preach to me that he knows everything there is to know!!! (well thats how it come across!!)
> 
> Well im glad ive woke up in a better mood!!!!! :lol:


With respect.What qualifys you to advise others on consumption of potentially harmful drugs? The op did what most intelligent, rational people would do.They spent some time researching potential adverse effects. i applaud the op, for taking the time to think through the possible problems.Your 24 years old.What recognised medical qualifications do you posess? Exactly.You have gleaned knowledge from self appointed experts, and from the "big guy in my gym" who must know what hes doing cos hes got 19 inch arms.

it amazes me how many for want of a better word "idiots" lift weights.The amount of otherwise intelligent young men, who are willing to shove pills down their throat, or inject extremely potent drugs, that may have been created in a 3rd world "kitchen" with careless abandon, i find startling.

And im not anti aas.i think it is just rational self interest, to proceed cautiously.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

clicketyclack said:


> Okay.. havent taken any pictures.. its my fifth week now.. going strong.. no sides what so ever.. had very mild nipple soreness but it went away in about 2 days.... going real heavy .. and eating like a beast.. hungry every 2 hours doing about 5,600 calories a day.
> 
> gained 8kgs so far...
> 
> ...


You wont need the sust, see how you recover from the cycle you took, then you can weigh all things.

16 pounds is alot of weight gain.

Granted some of that will come off after and during the PCT, but your condition will look better.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

essexboy said:


> With respect.What qualifys you to advise others on consumption of potentially harmful drugs? The op did what most intelligent, rational people would do.They spent some time researching potential adverse effects. i applaud the op, for taking the time to think through the possible problems.Your 24 years old.What recognised medical qualifications do you posess? Exactly.You have gleaned knowledge from self appointed experts, and from the "big guy in my gym" who must know what hes doing cos hes got 19 inch arms.
> 
> it amazes me how many for want of a better word "idiots" lift weights.The amount of otherwise intelligent young men, who are willing to shove pills down their throat, or inject extremely potent drugs, that may have been created in a 3rd world "kitchen" with careless abandon, i find startling.
> 
> And im not anti aas.i think it is just rational self interest, to proceed cautiously.


Are you for real? get a grip on reality.

PS, they aren't potentially harmful drugs and they certainly aren't extremely potent drugs being injected.

They are HORMONES, you might find you have some :lol: .


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> Are you for real? get a grip on reality.
> 
> PS, they aren't potentially harmful drugs and they certainly aren't extremely potent drugs being injected.
> 
> They are HORMONES, you might find you have some :lol: .


yes mate im very much for real.are you trying to tell me that drugs (any) do not have the potential to cause harm?ALL drugs do. you obviously have no life experience whatsoever, or are very naive.

yes hormones they might be.SYNTHETIC hormones.I think it might be wise to look up the dictionary definition of "drug"how old are you 14?


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

essexboy said:


> yes mate im very much for real.are you trying to tell me that drugs (any) do not have the potential to cause harm?ALL drugs do. you obviously have no life experience whatsoever, or are very naive.
> 
> yes hormones they might be.SYNTHETIC hormones.I think it might be wise to look up the dictionary definition of "drug"*how old are you 14*?


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Mars I believe is in his 40's.

But for the record, life is about choices, and many of them will reap rewards or conciquences.

Too much water can kill you.

As long as the person considers things and their risks, this person will be able to make a more informed decision.

Steroids are safe, but the higher the dose the higher the risk.

When deciding to do steroids, the more informed you are, the better.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

essexboy said:


> yes mate im very much for real.are you trying to tell me that drugs (any) do not have the potential to cause harm?ALL drugs do. you obviously have no life experience whatsoever, or are very naive.
> 
> yes hormones they might be.SYNTHETIC hormones.I think it might be wise to look up the dictionary definition of "drug"how old are you 14?


ROFL HARRIS! Seeing as mars is offline, I'll inform you that he is one of the most knowledgeable members of this forum and probably has much more life experience and AAS knowledge than you. 14 though lol, he'll be flattered.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

this is what Mars stated;PS, they aren't potentially harmful drugs and they certainly aren't extremely potent drugs being injected.

ALL DRUGS ARE POTENTIALLY HARMFUL.That was what i stated.I congratulated the op of the thread for researching the possible side effects, thats all.I get a sarcastic response.

Just for the record,he may have more knowledge of aas than me.i also have had three mates die, from rare causes,at very young ages.They all had one thing in common. More life experience? i doubt it, im 49.Websters definition of potent as i used it im the original thread is "having a strong physiological or chemical effect" do you still contend that my statement is incorrect?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Mars I believe is in his 40's.
> 
> But for the record, life is about choices, and many of them will reap rewards or conciquences.
> 
> ...


I agree totally. this is the essence of my response to the op.Im not sure as to why mars decided to post a sarcastic reply..


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

essexboy said:


> this is what Mars stated;PS, they aren't potentially harmful drugs and they certainly aren't extremely potent drugs being injected.
> 
> ALL DRUGS ARE POTENTIALLY HARMFUL.That was what i stated.I congratulated the op of the thread for researching the possible side effects, thats all.I get a sarcastic response.
> 
> Just for the record,he may have more knowledge of aas than me.i also have had three mates die, from rare causes,at very young ages.They all had one thing in common. More life experience? i doubt it, im 49.Websters definition of potent as i used it im the original thread is "having a strong physiological or chemical effect" do you still contend that my statement is incorrect?


Hmmm mars1960...mars1960...you're 49? Gee I wonder how old mars is? Could it be that he has exactly the same amount of life experience as you? PMSL


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Mars is cool, I like him.

Althogh I dont agree 100% of what he says, he is for the most part a good chap, and his information is spot on with the exception of nolva during a deca or tren cycle (even though this is controvercial).

I like Mars, and I do have respect for him.

But I give respect for all those that are of sound mind and give respect back......Its only natural..................


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

hackskii said:


> Mars is cool, I like him.
> 
> Althogh I dont agree 100% of what he says, he is for the most part a good chap, and his information is spot on with the exception of nolva during a deca or tren cycle (even though this is controvercial).
> 
> ...


i have no reason to doubt his integrity.im sure his experience is respected here.I still however find it perplexing, as to why he should take such an agressive stance, perhaps he will enlighten.


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

essex i think mars thought you were being aggressive towards dc, and just had his back.


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

I just find it hard to believe that a 49 year old man would use the username "essexboy"??


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I heard essex chicks are easy, is this true?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Easy is putting it lightly mate :lol:


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

hackskii said:


> I heard essex chicks are easy, is this true?


No mate.

No different to any other county.. To be honest I have seen far easier birds in different counties than here in Essex!

DOH!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Im easy.

Oh wait, I am a guy.....


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

Goose said:


> I just find it hard to believe that a 49 year old man would use the username "essexboy"??


us essex boys never grow up lol :laugh:


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## PHHead (Aug 20, 2008)

clicketyclack said:


> Okay.. havent taken any pictures.. its my fifth week now.. going strong.. no sides what so ever.. had very mild nipple soreness but it went away in about 2 days.... going real heavy .. and eating like a beast.. hungry every 2 hours doing about 5,600 calories a day.
> 
> gained 8kgs so far...
> 
> ...


To answer your question mate, no you do not need to add Sust and you have not wasted your time!

Six wks of Dbol only for a first course or someone fairly new to gear is great IMO, I ran 6wks of Dbol with Letro along side for some gyno trouble I have about 4 or 5 months ago now and I put on a stone and honestley the most I lost in PCT if any was a couple of pounds.

You will drop water wieght if not using an AI when you go into PCT but so what its not real muscle anyway.

Nolva and Clomid for PCT is spot on though so go with that but forget the Sust for now mate the guys talking b*llocks, you would have to run it for 10 wks anyway so its too late!


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## clicketyclack (Jan 3, 2009)

i see the topic has become a battle ground of some sort... anyway coming back to my topic....

i just got back from the gym.. and for the first 4 weeks on dbol i was doing 1 body part a day.... and starting today i do two body parts a day... finished chest + back today.. it was an insane workout.. now im gonna be off for about 10 weeks.. and do sust250 + dianabol.. ... i am going insane in the gym.. i feel no different otherwise.. my diet is really really up im peaking at 5500 calories now.. i need to feed myself every 2 hours.. and my diet is pretty clean.. beef uptill 1pm after which i go on to chicken.. my last meal of the day has no carbs.. roughly im doing 250-300 grams of protein...

as im reaching the last week of my dbol cycle.. i feel good and have had a positive experience with 30mg each day.. my lifts went insane specially on shoulders which was always a strong bodypart for me..... i had no trouble.. the first week particularly first couple of days i was a bit sleepless but that cudd be cuz of my own anticipation i had to control myself from overdoing my workout... now SUST 250 + DBOL...


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Goose said:


> I just find it hard to believe that a 49 year old man would use the username "essexboy"??


Any different than a grown man being called goose!it was a fighting handle thats all.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

clicketyclack said:


> i see the topic has become a battle ground of some sort... anyway coming back to my topic....
> 
> i just got back from the gym.. and for the first 4 weeks on dbol i was doing 1 body part a day.... and starting today i do two body parts a day... finished chest + back today.. it was an insane workout.. now im gonna be off for about 10 weeks.. and do sust250 + dianabol.. ... i am going insane in the gym.. i feel no different otherwise.. my diet is really really up im peaking at 5500 calories now.. i need to feed myself every 2 hours.. and my diet is pretty clean.. beef uptill 1pm after which i go on to chicken.. my last meal of the day has no carbs.. roughly im doing 250-300 grams of protein...
> 
> as im reaching the last week of my dbol cycle.. i feel good and have had a positive experience with 30mg each day.. my lifts went insane specially on shoulders which was always a strong bodypart for me..... i had no trouble.. the first week particularly first couple of days i was a bit sleepless but that cudd be cuz of my own anticipation i had to control myself from overdoing my workout... now SUST 250 + DBOL...


no battle ground at all.we can all be anything we want on the internet.I thinks it preferable to be cordial, and respectful.much like everyone else.


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

essexboy said:


> Any different than a grown man being called goose!it was a fighting handle thats all.


What makes you think i'm a grown man? Im only 21... young and hung :tongue:


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Goose said:


> What makes you think i'm a grown man? Im only 21... young and hung :tongue:


mate, you may only be 21, but you look pretty fukcin grown from your avy!! :whistling:


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

essexboy said:


> mate, you may only be 21, but you look pretty fukcin grown from your avy!! :whistling:


ha! I was fed well as a child :thumbup1:


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Goose said:


> ha! I was fed well as a child :thumbup1:


bet you slept in as grow bag too!


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## Goose (Jan 29, 2009)

essexboy said:


> bet you slept in as grow bag too!


Well you say that but i've always sucked at getting my sleep in. Last night was about 4.5 hours sleep. I like to be awake. :bounce:


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## ricey (Nov 28, 2008)

this threads well funny lol.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

essexboy said:


> yes mate im very much for real.are you trying to tell me that drugs (any) do not have the potential to cause harm?ALL drugs do. you obviously have no life experience whatsoever, or are very naive.
> 
> yes hormones they might be.SYNTHETIC hormones.I think it might be wise to look up the dictionary definition of "drug"how old are you 14?


 :lol: , no mate i'm 48, with 30+ years of experience.

Stick around, you might just learn something. :whistling:


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

clicketyclack said:


> i see the topic has become a battle ground of some sort... anyway coming back to my topic....
> 
> i just got back from the gym.. and for the first 4 weeks on dbol i was doing 1 body part a day.... and starting today i do two body parts a day... finished chest + back today.. it was an insane workout.. now im gonna be off for about 10 weeks.. and do sust250 + dianabol.. ... i am going insane in the gym.. i feel no different otherwise.. my diet is really really up im peaking at 5500 calories now.. i need to feed myself every 2 hours.. and my diet is pretty clean.. beef uptill 1pm after which i go on to chicken.. my last meal of the day has no carbs.. roughly im doing 250-300 grams of protein...
> 
> as im reaching the last week of my dbol cycle.. i feel good and have had a positive experience with 30mg each day.. my lifts went insane specially on shoulders which was always a strong bodypart for me..... i had no trouble.. the first week particularly first couple of days i was a bit sleepless but that cudd be cuz of my own anticipation i had to control myself from overdoing my workout... now SUST 250 + DBOL...


Can i ask you guys something i'm looking to do my first cycle .. i just wanted to know did you gain much fat with the gain you have made or is it pure muscle or do you have any pics of before and after ? someone please help no one seems to help out .. i'm looking to start out with something basic as i only want to gain something like 10 to 15 LB for now .. and see how it goes from there .


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## *o* (Jun 19, 2009)

clicketyclack said:


> i see the topic has become a battle ground of some sort... anyway coming back to my topic....
> 
> i just got back from the gym.. and for the first 4 weeks on dbol i was doing 1 body part a day.... and starting today i do two body parts a day... finished chest + back today.. it was an insane workout.. now im gonna be off for about 10 weeks.. and do sust250 + dianabol.. ... i am going insane in the gym.. i feel no different otherwise.. my diet is really really up im peaking at 5500 calories now.. i need to feed myself every 2 hours.. and my diet is pretty clean.. beef uptill 1pm after which i go on to chicken.. my last meal of the day has no carbs.. roughly im doing 250-300 grams of protein...
> 
> as im reaching the last week of my dbol cycle.. i feel good and have had a positive experience with 30mg each day.. my lifts went insane specially on shoulders which was always a strong bodypart for me..... i had no trouble.. the first week particularly first couple of days i was a bit sleepless but that cudd be cuz of my own anticipation i had to control myself from overdoing my workout... now SUST 250 + DBOL...


Good job, inspiring story!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nobody can say what amount of muscle one can obtain during a cycle or a workout routine.

How long is a piece of string?

Please refine your questions.


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

sizar said:


> Can i ask you guys something i'm looking to do my first cycle ..
> 
> Dont do a dianabol cycle only, complete and utter waste of time and money, plus , you wont keep any of the gains and any gains gotten you would have got from trianing anyway. go for test 500mg a week for 12 weeks, Sust is good, that was my first, and use dianabol as a kicker, only for the first 4 weeks 40 - 50 mg pd( its harsh on the liver )
> 
> ...


Below is somthing 99% of newbies should realise.......truth always hurts eh 

Reality of how much you can add

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>

<o> </o>

You just don't add muscle at extreme rates. If you started out at 15 years old and 150lbs, and converted just 10 GRAMS of protein to new muscle each day. (10 grams out of the 100's that you eat) You would be almost 400lbs of pure shredded mass in your mid 30's.

Obviously, there are no contest ready 400lb bodybuilders, so it is safe to assume that even the "easiest gainers" out there are converting much less than 10g of protein to new muscle each day.

The advice for hard gainers is to be diligent and consistent. Creating the potential for even 1 additional gram of protein to be converted to muscle protein each day will amount to MASSIVE gains over time.

<o></o>

<o> </o>

Gains while on ASS and bulking<o></o>

Please remember this, water and fat make up most of it and I think this is where people get a bit confused. You can jam down the calories and what your body does not need will very easily turn the extra cals into fat ......Muscle on the other hand has to be built ...this is a whole different story and complex process.

Once you diet back down to exactly the same BF% as you started out thats your gains in lean muscle...and then comes the next reality check ..you gotta hold on to them!!!

good luck M8

REP


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Replicator said:


> Below is somthing 99% of newbies should realise.......truth always hurts eh
> 
> Reality of how much you can add
> 
> ...


My body fat is at 5% right now and i weight 150 LB i am 5'10 tall ..my diet is very clean i eat 6 meals a day i know if i go on the gear i need to uptake my calories by another 1000 or 1500..

here is an example ..

morning 70g oat 5 egg whites and one scoop of optimum whey gold standard.

meal 2 50g oat and scoop of whey.

Training time.

post workout 2 scoop of whey and banana ( don't really count this as a meal)

meal 3 ( 200g chicken breast uncooked weighted ) 100g brown rice

Meal 4 Tuna salad or brown bread 2 slices

meal 5 chicken breast or fish (200g) + veg and salad

Meal 6 (before bed) 220g low fat Cottage Cheese

What you think ? also any suggestion on a cycle .. as i said i want something basic .. don't want to introduce my body to heavy stuff .. as i'm starting out.


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

sizar said:


> My body fat is at 5% right now and i weight 150 LB i am 5'10 tall ..my diet is very clean i eat 6 meals a day i know if i go on the gear i need to uptake my calories by another 1000 or 1500..
> 
> here is an example ..
> 
> ...


Diet looks good to me

first cycle as i said above

go for test 500mg a week for 12 weeks, Sustenon is good,or Test Cyp or Enanthate 400-500mg ew 10-12 weeks! Split the dosage and inject half on monday and the other half on thursday that was my first, and use dianabol as a kicker, only for the first 4 weeks 40 - 50 mg pd(not any longer its harsh on the liver and you will be fine) If it was me doing this over again i would add 25mg a day of Proviron

REP


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

No need to split sust, enanthate, or cypionate. One shot a week of 500mg will work just fine, the gains wont be any better, he will just have more scar tissue from more frequent injections.

The whole stable blood level thing is not necessary as the body has a circadian rythem and testosterone fluxuates up and down starting from the morning and working back down in the afternoon.

Just have an AI on hand, and taking low dose AI during a cycle is a good idea.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

sounds good .. does the injection hurt ? as in after .. what sort of gain am i looking at ? and how many calories do i have to have more to gain .. at the mo i'm sort of maintaining what i have got ....what you think ?


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

sizar said:


> sounds good .. does the injection hurt ? as in after .. what sort of gain am i looking at ? and how many calories do i have to have more to gain .. at the mo i'm sort of maintaining what i have got ....what you think ?


no the injections dont hurt . when you inject press the plunger in slow ...this does a lot less damage to the fibers, then when you withdraw massage the area for aminute or so adn you will be fine.

As far as calories go here is a wee guide for ye

* If you intend to bulk up, then consume 20 to 22 calories per 1 pound of bodyweight. EX. A 200 pound person would consume 4,000 to 4,400 calories per day to bulk up.

* If you intend to maintain your current bodyweight, then consume 15 to 18 calories per 1 pound of bodyweight. EX. A 200 pound person would consume 3,000 to 3,600 calories per day to maintain his or her current bodyweight.

* If you intend to cut up, then consume 10 to 12 calories per 1 pound of bodyweight. EX. A 200 pound person would consume 2,000 to 2,400 calories per day to cut up.

For bulking, a 45/40/15 ratio of carbs, proteins, and fats would be the average norm. This means that a 200 pound individual looking to consume 4,000 calories per day would consume 45% of those 4,000 cals in carbs, 45% of those 4,000 cals in proteins, and 15% of those 4,000 cals in fats.

45% of carbs = 1,800 cals or 450 grams of carbs ( 1,800 cals divided by 4 cals )

40% of proteins = 1,600 cals or 400 grams of proteins ( 1,600 cals divided by 4 cals )

15% of fats = 600 cals or 67 grams of fats ( 600 cals divided by 9 cals rounded off to the whole number )

Use the same ratios for maintaining and cutting bodyweight, which is a 30/50/20 ratio of nutrients. ( carbs/proteins/fats )

For maintaining bodyweight : A 200 pound individual looking to consume 3,000 calories per day would consume 30% of those 3,000 calories in carbs, 50% of those 3,000 calories in proteins, and 20% of those 3,000 calories in fats.

30% of carbs = 900 cals or 225 grams of carbs ( 900 cals divided by 4 cals )

50% of proteins = 1,500 or 375 grams of proteins ( 1,500 divided by 4 cals )

20% of fats = 600 cals or 67 grams of fats ( 600 divided by 9 cals rounded off to the whole number )

For cutting bodyweight : A 200 pound individual looking to consume 2,000 calories per day would consume 30% of those 2,000 calories in carbs, 50% of those 2,000 calories in proteins, and 20% of those 2,000 calories in fats.

30% of carbs = 600 or 150 grams of carbs ( 600 cals divided by 4 cals )

50% of proteins = 1,000 cals or 250 grams of proteins ( 1,000 cals divided by 4 cals )

20% of fats = 400 cals or 44 grams of fats ( 400 cals divided by 9 cals rounded off to the whole number )

REP.


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## Replicator (Apr 4, 2009)

hackskii said:


> No need to split sust, enanthate, or cypionate. One shot a week of 500mg will work just fine, the gains wont be any better, he will just have more scar tissue from more frequent injections.
> 
> The whole stable blood level thing is not necessary as the body has a circadian rythem and testosterone fluxuates up and down starting from the morning and working back down in the afternoon.
> 
> Just have an AI on hand, and taking low dose AI during a cycle is a good idea.


I agree there is no need to split the injects but would just keep levels more stable and as far as 2 injects being frequent and less scar tissue , thats just bollocks , when on short esters and ED ijects and haveing to inject in more than just your glutes then you can talk about scar tissue !!!!!!

REP


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Trust me, one shot a week or two makes zero diffrence on gains, I have done both and for those that stress getting shots, once is better due to less stress.

Again, I will repeat myself here, once a week with the longer esters is just fine and will not compromise gains what so ever.

Now, due to the higher rise in androgen levels, one may suffer more sides, but running an AI using aromitizable steroids is just good practice.

Your ratios for fat loss can be modified and have the same results, in some ways better results,

Your cal requirements dont take into consideration of body type, age, lifestyle, work load, stress, activity levels, amount of sleep, drugs, etc.

I may burn more calories than someone else with equal bodyweight due to the amount of muscle I carry, so the cookie cutter approach does not work like that.

Not to mention your fat requirements are too low forcing the body to store more fats, plus will lower the glycemic load of the meals that do have more fat in them, offering better blood sugar regulation, and less chance of binging.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

what are the side effect ? anything crazy .. any of you got any idea of the gain and how much of it will i keep after the cycle ?


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## T.F. (Aug 28, 2008)

Your bodyfat is 5%?

Are you doing a show?

Where did you get this reading?

Edit: haven't read whole thread, but is there a reason you only weigh 150lbs at 5ft10"?


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

Yeah good answers guys .. thanks alot .. i was looking to take winstrol .. i know i'm trying to gain some muscle and this is a cutting gear to use .. but as i read in my research this type could give you slow but solid steady gain without water retention and so on .. what you guys think of that ? have i missed anything ?


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

T.F. said:


> Your bodyfat is 5%?
> 
> Are you doing a show?
> 
> ...


no i'm not doing any show .. i have always been over weight just been dieting and working out.. but now i'm trying to add some muscle to my frame but try and stay as lean as i can .. i'm not looking to add rapid mass just some solid gain would be nice .. with minimum fat gain and water ..


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

AT 5% and a clean bulk, you should gain some good size your first cycle.


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## sizar (Nov 13, 2008)

hackskii said:


> AT 5% and a clean bulk, you should gain some good size your first cycle.


Yeah def i will do it nice and clean i'm aiming to hit around 3000 to 3500 calories all clean .. i'm still confused about what to take tho ? dbol or test and i dont wanna run a long cycle ? 8 weeks max .. and on my pct .. what are the side effects ... i mean sex drive die ? ( worried about this ) :lol:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

sizar said:


> Yeah def i will do it nice and clean i'm aiming to hit around 3000 to 3500 calories all clean .. i'm still confused about what to take tho ? dbol or test and i dont wanna run a long cycle ? 8 weeks max .. and on my pct .. what are the side effects ... i mean sex drive die ? ( worried about this ) :lol:


Oh, this is an easy delima.

Testosterone is king, sides are well known, recovery is simple, plus you will love all the good effects from that.

8 weeks first cycle, along with estrogen management, and a bit of over feeding with the macro's down and you will have the most outstanding before and after pics.

Want help?

Either post up a thread or, PM me for your first cycle.


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## Skinboat (Sep 21, 2009)

It may longer be the in thing but pyramiding your cycle allows the body to start its own production without the need for pct which have there own sides


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## Skinboat (Sep 21, 2009)

Painkillers mess with your liver esp. when taking dbol just drink more water 1 - 2 gallons daily


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Skinboat said:


> It may longer be the in thing but pyramiding your cycle allows the body to start its own production without the need for pct which have there own sides


Not true.

Exogenous steroids stop endogenous production.

PCT is defo needed.

Unless the cycle is using non supressive gear like anavar or premo, and even then it is needed.


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