# Milk or water for a bulk



## gobbo1986 (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi there guys my names dan this is the first time that I have posted on this site. I have used it for about 3 months to gain some info wich has helped me very much.

I have been training for about a year now and with eatinging the right food I have managed to gain a stone in this time. But at the min I'm trying a lil bit of a bulk and I just wanted to no if u guys think it is beter use milk or water in ur shakes just to get the extra calories or will it be to much fat. I would use semi- skimed milk and I have two aday. Cheers guys


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

gobbo1986 said:


> Hi there guys my names dan this is the first time that I have posted on this site. I have used it for about 3 months to gain some info wich has helped me very much.
> 
> I have been training for about a year now and with eatinging the right food I have managed to gain a stone in this time. But at the min I'm trying a lil bit of a bulk and I just wanted to no if u guys think it is beter use milk or water in ur shakes just to get the extra calories or will it be to much fat. I would use semi- skimed milk and I have two aday. Cheers guys


get bloody using milk mate, and use whole milk or if you find that too much get semi skimmed down you,, dont worry about the fat its mostly good stuff mate , i think people worry too much , great for protein as well !!!


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## dixie normus (May 11, 2008)

gomad! :lol:


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## Ben1212 (Jun 28, 2010)

Milk for sure mate. I have 3 shakes a day ( 2 whey protein and one slow release before bed ) all with semi skimmed milk. It makes what would be a 150 calorie shake with water a 300 calorie shake with semi skimmed milk. And as said above 300ml of SS milk has roughly 10 grams of protein in it. I get roughly 132 grams of protein a day just from my 3 shakes.


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Definitely milk, even for cutting. Milk is your best friend in this game, along with chicken & eggs of course


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## gobbo1986 (Dec 12, 2010)

That's great guys thank you very much. That's why I love this site straight forward answers. Lol


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

IrishRaver said:


> Definitely milk* even for cutting*. Milk is your best friend in this game, along with chicken & eggs of course


Can you please explain..?


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## Cam93 (May 20, 2010)

milk!

i'd love to drink loads of the stuff, if only i wasn't lactose intolerant


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## jim2509 (Dec 30, 2010)

I have 2 protein shakes a day + 2 homemade 'Shudder Shakes' that consist of whole milk..ice..egg whites..banana..peanut butter..oats..try it it'll certainly help your bulk cycle if the rest of your diet is nailed on.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Lloyd DA said:


> Can you please explain..?


Well Milk isn't especially fattening in itself, so long as you're in a caloric deficit you'll lose fat. Plus milk contains caesin, which is highly anti-catabolic.

Having said that, liquid meals don't tend to help with fullness on a diet, so I'd prefer to chew my food.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Post workout I would just use water, for fast protein digestion. Milk any other time


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

fatmanstan! said:


> Post workout I would just use water, for fast protein digestion. Milk any other time


The latest research actually shows Milk is superior PWO to whey alone, as it maintains a more anabolic environment.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

bayman said:


> The latest research actually shows Milk is superior PWO to whey alone, as it maintains a more anabolic environment.


Nice, may as well throw my whey in the bin and get a pint of semi skimmed!


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## msowerby18 (Jun 8, 2008)

bayman said:


> The latest research actually shows Milk is superior PWO to whey alone, as it maintains a more anabolic environment.


Any links to this research bayman?..would be interested to have a read through


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

bayman said:


> The latest research actually shows Milk is superior PWO to whey alone, as it maintains a more anabolic environment.


yes probs because milk has carbs in which will help increase blood sugar and cause insulin response. hence why most put carbs in with their whey.

I bet their wasnt a group using whey and milk was their?

Their were studies done before showing choc milk was good for pwo before as more sugar.

I still think a whey plus carb source is better as the quantity of milk you would need to get in say 40g protein would be huge and probs make most very uncomfy


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

i dnt really use milk i have the odd glass as i like it but dnt use it that much at all these days. i may introduce more dairy in to my off season diet as i dnt have issues with lactose and the pro you get from milk, yog, cheese is good.

full milk isnt that bad and many wouldnt even notice the diff if the used skimmed/semi/or full fat milk. when i was consuming 6k a day i was having milk or oj with every meal to bump up cals (not the best idea) i do like milk tho.....

milk has lactose and this can be tough to digest, milk will slow down the digestion of whey???? i would opt for whey gloucose in water as a basic best value for money shake.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

hilly said:


> yes probs because milk has carbs in which will help increase blood sugar and cause insulin response. hence why most put carbs in with their whey.
> 
> I bet their wasnt a group using whey and milk was their?
> 
> ...


I have read that on here in another thread !!! was that you that said it before or you just pinched someone elses comment lol ???


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

flinty90 said:


> I have read that on here in another thread !!! was that you that said it before or you just pinched someone elses comment lol ???


As i made several comments you will have to be more specific. I have never read the choc milk pwo thing on here i have read studies posted on pro muscle regarding it.

the other statements are or should be comon sense to most


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

hilly said:


> As i made several comments you will have to be more specific. I have never read the choc milk pwo thing on here i have read studies posted on pro muscle regarding it.
> 
> the other statements are or should be comon sense to most


Yeah the choc milk statement mate, i swear i was reading that on another thread on here last night (i tend to read as much as i can)

Not a problem mate not digging at ya i just thought if it was from another post it might be good to add the topic to here as it was a relevant thread with lost of good info on it.. i will keep looking for it :thumbup1:


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## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

Funny enough I used to drink a bottle of choc milk PWO years ago as the gym I used sold it and I liked it more than the strawberry or banana flavour.

I try to drink about two pints of semi skimmed milk a day but mix my whey with water as it is easier for me to drink.

I'm not the most scientific when it comes to my diet and tend to go for the old favourites such as: eggs, tuna, chicken, milk, beef etc.


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## BRENNAN_92 (Oct 5, 2010)

So is the best thing to do id have milk with all my USN protien that has casein in and I take that when I wake up and before bed but with my before and after training whey I should have them with water?


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Lloyd DA said:


> Can you please explain..?


There's not much to say dude. Milk is wonderful. It has a good amount of protein in it, the fats in it are all good as are the carbs

So as long as it's within your macros for cutting, milk should be a priority


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

There's no point in drinking skimmed or semi-skimmed milk - there's only 4-6% difference in the fat content and whole mik contains more nutrients.

And anyway the fat, protein and carbs in milk (and cheese) are all excellent bodybuilding food.

Before all today's magic supplements were available the pro's of yesteryear lived on eggs, beef and - milk!

Protein powder doesn't always blend well with milk. Best mix your protein in only about an inch of water and neck it, and wash it down with a pint of nice cold milk.

Milk intolerance is thankfully rare in the West, and you can actually gradually desensitize yourself to it.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Carpenter said:


> GOMAD, Food and Squats for bulking if you want to get fat quick time


Edited that for you. GOMAD is a horrible way to add mass unless you're chronically underweight.


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## God (Sep 3, 2009)

Beer, milk is for babies.


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## God (Sep 3, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> There's no point in drinking skimmed or semi-skimmed milk - there's only 4-6% difference in the fat content and whole mik contains more nutrients.
> 
> And anyway the fat, protein and carbs in milk (and cheese) are all excellent bodybuilding food.
> 
> ...


Is milk you buy in the supermarket any good or is it filled with all sorts of crap and had the good stuff taken out? I know the stuff in the US is pretty bad but can't remember whether UK stuff is the same. I'm sure milk from healthy cows that haven't been pumped full of chemicals is fine but I wasn't so sure about the stuff you'd generally find down in Tesco.


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## Jimbo 1 (Jul 25, 2010)

I Have 5-6 shakes a day always use skimmed milk makes it taste better too:thumbup1:


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Jimbo 1 said:


> I Have 5-6 shakes a day always use skimmed milk makes it taste better too:thumbup1:


Do u eat swell


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## Carpenter (Jun 30, 2010)

bayman said:


> Edited that for you. GOMAD is a horrible way to add mass unless you're chronically underweight.


I love GOFAT i mean GOMAD, Its the best way for people who find it hard to put weight on IMO, Im staying on it till I hit 14 stone then ill still drink whole just 4 pints a day....BEEF CAKE. KICK ASS lol


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

God said:


> Is milk you buy in the supermarket any good or is it filled with all sorts of crap and had the good stuff taken out? I know the stuff in the US is pretty bad but can't remember whether UK stuff is the same. I'm sure milk from healthy cows that haven't been pumped full of chemicals is fine but I wasn't so sure about the stuff you'd generally find down in Tesco.


In the UK the ordinary whole milk you buy anywhere is totally natural and unadulterated.

It's pasteurized to kill off any harmful bugs, which does it no harm whatsoever. If you really want from some places you can buy raw unpasteurized whole milk from TT (tuberculin tested) herds, but there's no real need.

To those of us brought up on farms on whole milk, skimmed and even semi-skimmed milk taste very poor. The skimmed portion is the single and double cream that you buy in pots but which is full of nutrients.

It's just not worth drinking skimmed or semi-skimmed milk!

And butter is far better for you than margarine and vegetable spreads - especially for bodybuilders!

Farmers are usually pretty big and strong. I wonder why...


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> In the UK the ordinary whole milk you buy anywhere is totally natural and unadulterated.
> 
> It's pasteurized to kill off any harmful bugs, which does it no harm whatsoever. If you really want from some places you can buy raw unpasteurized whole milk from TT (tuberculin tested) herds, but there's no real need.
> 
> ...


what about them olive oil spreads?


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## thaiman (Nov 25, 2010)

i'm not sure why anyone would think water is going to make you bulk up

i dont even know whether to take the question serious.

but yeah, i'd go for milk.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

thaiman said:


> i'm not sure why anyone would think water is going to make you bulk up
> 
> i dont even know whether to take the question serious.
> 
> but yeah, i'd go for milk.


water will not bulk you up. if you eat oats in water and whey in water you have less cals but the cals you get imo are worth more

i notice that with a lot of dairy i bloat up with water when i drop it i tighten up a little just from lack of dairy..... it depends what look you are after. if a lean bulk is the aim id say avoid dairy or large quantity's at least but if you are like me and love the off season and get a little out of shape then dairy it up! lol


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Prodiver said:


> In the UK the ordinary whole milk you buy anywhere is totally natural and unadulterated.
> 
> It's pasteurized to kill off any harmful bugs, which does it no harm whatsoever. If you really want from some places you can buy raw unpasteurized whole milk from TT (tuberculin tested) herds, but there's no real need.
> 
> ...


Very true mate, did you know that margarine is only actually 1 molecule away from being plastic !!!!!


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

big_jim_87 said:


> what about them olive oil spreads?


Semi-solid spreads and margarines are made by hydrogenating vegetable oils by trickling them through a catalyst consisting of nickel balls. Inevitably they thus contain traces of nickel as the balls wear when sieved. Nickel is toxic.

Hydrogenation is often incomplete, which creates unnatural transfats that are now accepted as relatively harmful.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

big_jim_87 said:


> water will not bulk you up. if you eat oats in water and whey in water you have less cals but the cals you get imo are worth more
> 
> i notice that with a lot of dairy i bloat up with water when i drop it i tighten up a little just from lack of dairy..... it depends what look you are after. if a lean bulk is the aim id say avoid dairy or large quantity's at least but if you are like me and love the off season and get a little out of shape then dairy it up! lol


A calorie is a calorie is a calorie!

Any excess calories that you don't burn in life and exercise will be stored as bodyfat.

Fat contains nearly twice as many calories per gram as carbs, but fats are much more satiating, so you can eat less yet not feel hungry.

People who are used to eating large volumes tend to still eat lots of fat when they switch from mainly carbs to mainly fat for energy, and so tend to feel bloated and get porky unless they retrain their eating habits.

However, carbs cause insulin spikes - which are not always desirable - and raise blood triglycerides and are increasingly implicated in obesity rather than fats.

There is no point in bulking by eating excess calories, especially as carbs, and putting on flab as well as muscle. Better to stay lean while growing by accentuating fats rather than carbs.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> A calorie is a calorie is a calorie!
> 
> Any excess calories that you don't burn in life and exercise will be stored as bodyfat.
> 
> ...


the point is with milk the carb source is lactose and even if you are tolerant of this form of carb it is tough to break down and the body dnt really know what to do with it? i find i hold more water with milk etc not fat really just water but i like water as it aids in heavy lifting...


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> Semi-solid spreads and margarines are made by hydrogenating vegetable oils by trickling them through a catalyst consisting of nickel balls. Inevitably they thus contain traces of nickel as the balls wear when sieved. Nickel is toxic.
> 
> Hydrogenation is often incomplete, which creates unnatural transfats that are now accepted as relatively harmful.


the hydrogenation i was aware of but wasnt sure if olive spread was made the same way..... thanks for clearing that up buddy


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## God (Sep 3, 2009)

Prodiver said:


> In the UK the ordinary whole milk you buy anywhere is totally natural and unadulterated.
> 
> It's pasteurized to kill off any harmful bugs, which does it no harm whatsoever. If you really want from some places you can buy raw unpasteurized whole milk from TT (tuberculin tested) herds, but there's no real need.
> 
> ...


Cheers. I'll add some back in. Just wasn't sure about the bovine growth hormone (think that's what it's called) so thanks for clearing that up.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

olivio(bertolli) is ok,none of those fats..almost zero trans fat..0.5% or something.

good stuff.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Milk in the UK (as is the beef) is miles apart from the crap you get in the US. We have higher animal welfare standards, and rules over what you can and cannot feed / supplement cows with.

There is some evidence to show that homogenisation of milk (the process that mixes the cream and the rest of the milk) may be more harmful than good - this is why you no longer get the cream sitting on the top of your milk for those that remember. Homogenisation is purely for cosmetic reasons and adds no benefits whatsoever. I'd agree that pasteurisation isn't a bad thing though, and I choose raw over pasteurised when cost / opportunity allows.

Thankfully there are some supermarket brands that supply unhomogenised milk, look for the jersey milk specials, or if near Wales a brand called "Calon Wen" (Pure Heart) which produces organic non-homogenised milk. Tasty too.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

And butter is full of vitamin K2 too. Kerrygold soft-churned FTW.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

Where I live we have unhomogenized pastuerized whole milk still delivered to our doors daily in glass bottles..! :thumb:


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## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

Would it be more beneficial using mike with the protein powder for my last meal then ? due to it being slower releasing


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

CJones said:


> Would it be more beneficial using mike with the protein powder for my last meal then ? due to it being slower releasing


Me personally I just use Milk protein with water, then if I need to extra cals I can always add milk.


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## Peter VI (Nov 9, 2010)

for me mate its defo milk


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## dixie normus (May 11, 2008)

Prodiver said:


> In the UK the ordinary whole milk you buy anywhere is totally natural and unadulterated.


Alas this is no longer true.

ALL milk sold in supermarkets is skimmed then the required amount of fat re-introduced to make a consistent full fat or half fat product.


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## Prodiver (Nov 14, 2008)

dixie normus said:


> Alas this is no longer true.
> 
> ALL milk sold in supermarkets is skimmed then the required amount of fat re-introduced to make a consistent full fat or half fat product.


I never shop in supermarkets...

Anyway, if it's skimmed in any way, then it's not whole milk, unlike the stuff we have delivered.

Every morning to get it to pour I have to push a spoon handle into the cream solidified on top!

Delicious on simple Shredded Wheat without any sugar.


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## Jimbo 1 (Jul 25, 2010)

fatmanstan! said:


> Do u eat swell


Lol yes all the normal meals plus real food protein snacks eggs salmon chicken


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## Newcastle24 (Dec 22, 2010)

good stuff - never new about the milk fact


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Prodiver said:


> Where I live we have unhomogenized pastuerized whole milk still delivered to our doors daily in glass bottles..! :thumb:


Good grief where do you live ? I've not seen milk in a glass bottle for about 25 years!


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Prodiver said:


> Every morning to get it to pour I have to push a spoon handle into the cream solidified on top!


sold as Gold Top milk when I was a child .. delicious ! and the milk was a lovely creamy colour unlike the pukey white Silver Top ... hey ho ...


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## Greshie (Jan 15, 2011)

Great posts guys ... I shall be checking out the whole milk in Aldi this afternoon , and drinking more of the stuff


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

fatmanstan! said:


> Nice, may as well throw my whey in the bin and get a pint of semi skimmed!


not far wrong.. especially if you look past the marketing hype at what whey is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whey_protein

"...Production

Main article: Whey

Whey is left over when milk coagulates, and contains everything that is soluble from milk. It is a 5% solution of lactose in water, with some minerals and lactalbumin.[7] It is removed after cheese is processed. The fat is removed and then is processed for human foods.[7] Processing can be by simple drying, or the protein content can be increased by removing lipids and other non-protein materials.[8] For example, spray drying after membrane filtration separates the proteins from whey.[9]

Whey protein can be denatured by heat. High heat (such as the sustained high temperatures above 72 °C associated with the pasteurization process) denatures whey proteins. While native whey protein does not aggregate upon renneting or acidification of milk, denaturing the whey protein triggers hydrophobic interactions with other proteins, and the formation of a protein gel.[8] Heat-denatured whey can still cause allergies in some people.[10]

[edit]Composition

Whey protein is the collection of globular proteins isolated from whey, a by-product of cheese manufactured from cow's milk. Cow's milk is 20% whey protein and 80% casein protein,[11] whereas human milk is 60% whey and 40% casein.[12] Whey protein is typically a mixture of beta-lactoglobulin (~65%), alpha-lactalbumin (~25%), and serum albumin (~8%), which are soluble in their native forms, independent of pH. The protein fraction in whey (approximately 10% of the total dry solids within whey) comprises four major protein fractions and six minor protein fractions. The major protein fractions in whey are beta-lactoglobulin, alpha-lactalbumin, bovine serum albumin and immunoglobulins.[13]"


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## tazzy-lee (Oct 27, 2008)

whole milk ftw!!


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