# Kidney Damage



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

Having started a successful cut I have lost a stone in a month and I'm feeling a lot better and of course looking better. However, a routine blood test has showed that my Kidneys have suffered some damage and I'm told this could be caused by the supplements I'm taking, as soon as I mentioned Creatine amongst other things she said straight away Creatine will damage the Kidneys. I was under the impression Creatine had no negative side effects on the body? I'm pretty pissed if I'm honest as she has told me to drop my protein levels too!!! She has basically said cut out all supplements and drop my protein. I explained I was on a bodybuilding diet and this time round cutting with 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. Which is only around 200 Grams. After all the hard work and suffering with the low calories etc I am now told it's damaging my body and that I need monthly blood tests to make sure my levels or something on the kidneys don't drop below 60? She said the levels, I'm not sure what this is, blood count or something should be at around 90-92 for someone my age but mine are currently on 74 and have been dropping over the months which is a cause for serious concern she said. She also added a lot of people who weight train are aware of the damage caused to their kidneys through diets, supplements etc but choose to ignore it and suffer later on in life and of course she said some people it will affect more than others. What a massive blow to my routine and training!!! I don't know what to do anymore I'm furious but also worried now about my kidneys!!!!!

Has anyone ever had any experience of kidneys being affected by too much protein and supplements such as creatine? It's certainly the first I have ever heard of anything like this.

I want to continue my cut but I also do not want to damage my kidneys any further, I asked her if I dropped my supplements and protein could it be the case that my kidney levels still drop and she said yes it's a possibility.

So, to carry on training or conduct an experiment of dropping the diet for a month and then to have the blood test and see what the results show, whether the levels are dropping or have stopped because I cut out the supplements.

Majorly gutted at the moment!!!

Anyone with any advice or experience here I would love to hear what you have to say. <OThanks for reading.<O</O


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

I had two urine samples taken 1 week apart which showed exactly what is on this page. High levels of protein in the urine.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/proteinuria/

I thought it might just be the high protein diet I was on?


----------



## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi Trixta

Sorry to hear that, I'm a bit ignorant about this but I hope someone knowledgeable reply.

Did you go to the doctor with kidney pains, do you have a history of kidney problem?


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

akalatengo said:


> Hi Trixta
> 
> Sorry to hear that, I'm a bit ignorant about this but I hope someone knowledgeable reply.
> 
> Did you go to the doctor with kidney pains, do you have a history of kidney problem?


I signed up to a new doctors and had a routine urine test which showed high levels of protein in the urine. A week later another sample was taken and sent for analysis. The results showed my kidney levels are dropping steadily which apparently isn't a good thing.

My mothers family has no sign of anyone suffering from any kidney disease but unfortunately I do not know my father and neither does my mother so I'm not sure wether kidney problems are present in his family?

I don't get any pains but she said if my levels drop to 60 this is when the pain will occur and serious damage will be done which will need action.


----------



## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

does it matter which type of creatine you use?


----------



## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

it sound terrible mate, if I was you I would look after myself and do what the docs say for now.

May be a good idea to get Extreme, or Pscarb opinion on this


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

extreme did most of a degree on creatine..he should be able to enlighten you..

i remember way back when a dude called steve owned MC and he had a similar prob trixsta.

the lowered protein if it is necessary is only temporary..


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ok so what did they find apart from protein in your urine?

did they calculate your GFR ?

Protein in the urine combined with a few other markers is a sign of first stage kidney damage....in NORMAL PEOPLE this is important as GP's do not know how to translate a Bodybuilders lifestyle and diet to the results (told to me by my renal specialist in January)

do you have high blood pressure? if you do this could be the reason for the protein in the urine nothing to do with kidneys....

the reason i ask about the GFR is because this is a calculation of the Creatinine levels, Age and Race...any thing under 60 is considered first stage CKD (Chronic Kidney Damage) these normal levels are worked out on average people.

Muscle produces creatinine as a waste product when in trauma (training) so the more muscle you have the more creatinine it will produce......the average car accident can raise creatinine levels into the 10 of thousand range....normal range is between 80-120 in my area.......

next time you have a blood test refrain from training for 3 days and watch your creatinine levels fall dramatically.

i went through all of this in 2009 when they found a level of 1500 of protein in my urine, i was told by both my GP and renal consultant that my kidneys where damaged through both diet and steroids (they highlighted steroids more) i had two nuclear tests(inject a nuclear liquid in one arm then take blood from another arm to see how it went through the kidneys), i had a ultrasound and a nuclear test where they took pictures.....this all ended with a biopsy of my kidneys.......the results......NO DAMAGE no shrinkage, no scaring......at my last appointment in January i was seen by the head of the Renal department who said that my nuclear tests came back all normal so was confused why i had so many other tests after that......when i said it was because the consultant said they must be damaged because of the steroids......his reply "steroids do not directly effect the kidneys at all"....they can be effected by raised blood pressure hence the question about your BP.......

i am not saying they is no issue as there might be but don't be to quick to jump when the GP panics...


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

PScarb said:


> ok so what did they find apart from protein in your urine?
> 
> did they calculate your GFR ?
> 
> ...


Blood pressure is spot on and no other problems are currently present, apart from what these blood and urine tests indicate, I am completely healthy.

I believe my GFR is 74 and was told similar ranges to what you have said and that I should be around 90, this is what the doctor told me. I will take your advice about no training 3 days before the blood and urine tests and see what happens. So, should I leave creatine alone for a while? I was taking just 5g a day. Not sure what to do with my training now, cut, bulk, maintain. I feel I have no structure anymore. I feel a need something to work towards, a target. How can this possibly be achieved through taking the doctors advice of lowering my protein intake and stopping all supplements?

Thanks for your reply.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

dude, perspective.. you can still train and lose weight.


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

without high levels of protein to maintain muscle mass and not lose dramatic amounts of weight etc?


----------



## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Hope everything is ok mate, keep us informed.

i had high blood pressure, and docs send me for reg blood test, docs said it could be high protein diet and wanted me to cut down shakes.

ive since been in hospital for a week since all that, food poisioning, and had bood tests daily and urine monitered, andthey said nothing then, so im taking it everything is ok, Might get a blood sample done soon to be on the safe size.

what creatine you been using? KR-Ev? is so so what dosages? 2 caps before and after?


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

jonnymc said:


> Hope everything is ok mate, keep us informed.
> 
> i had high blood pressure, and docs send me for reg blood test, docs said it could be high protein diet and wanted me to cut down shakes.
> 
> ...


Cheers mate, should be ok from what I've been reading, also, I'm just on the simple everyday Holland & Barrett Precision Engineered Creatine Monohydrate Capsules 700mg, 4 before training and 4 after. Basically just because they are cheap and easy to obtain from the shop in town.


----------



## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Keep Me/Us informed matey!


----------



## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

I remember Neil R saying that he take 6 kre-evolution before and after and even resting days and hi is in a good health


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

bet muscle atrophy isnt as bad as you think if trainings modified to suit diet..


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

The Trixsta said:


> Blood pressure is spot on and no other problems are currently present, apart from what these blood and urine tests indicate, I am completely healthy.
> 
> I believe my GFR is 74 and was told similar ranges to what you have said and that I should be around 90, this is what the doctor told me. I will take your advice about no training 3 days before the blood and urine tests and see what happens. So, should I leave creatine alone for a while? I was taking just 5g a day. Not sure what to do with my training now, cut, bulk, maintain. I feel I have no structure anymore. I feel a need something to work towards, a target. How can this possibly be achieved through taking the doctors advice of lowering my protein intake and stopping all supplements?
> 
> Thanks for your reply.


You have more than the average muscle mass so your creatinine levels will be higher than e norm your GP is comparing you to a normal average Joe which he/she cannot do........if you are taking creatine mono then you will get some conversion to creatinine so I would stop that, then take the time off training before the test and when you go and see the GP arm yourself with the fact training causing muscle trauma and this causes more creatinine to be produced which in turn lowers the GFR calculation.....don't tell her you did not train until she answers this fact then tell her and that is why your levels where higher.........my GP did not know what to say when I did it and it lowered my creatinine by nearly 50points......

Be proactive it is your body.......and Cal is correct you can still drop weight and lose fat without creatinine or a very high protein diet......it just takes a little longer....


----------



## garathnormanmtts (Jul 15, 2011)

Kidney damage usually becomes due to smoking more a day.


----------



## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

dont thiink so much dudes...

overthinking = circular thinking = anxiety...


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

garathnormanmtts said:


> Kidney damage usually becomes due to smoking more a day.


no it doesnt mate......??


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

PScarb said:


> You have more than the average muscle mass so your creatinine levels will be higher than e norm your GP is comparing you to a normal average Joe which he/she cannot do........if you are taking creatine mono then you will get some conversion to creatinine so I would stop that, then take the time off training before the test and when you go and see the GP arm yourself with the fact training causing muscle trauma and this causes more creatinine to be produced which in turn lowers the GFR calculation.....don't tell her you did not train until she answers this fact then tell her and that is why your levels where higher.........my GP did not know what to say when I did it and it lowered my creatinine by nearly 50points......
> 
> Be proactive it is your body.......and Cal is correct you can still drop weight and lose fat without creatinine or a very high protein diet......it just takes a little longer....


Nice one buddy, I feel a lot more relaxed now. I appreciate all the responses here. I shall update when I receive the next results.

Thanks again.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

The Trixsta said:


> Nice one buddy, I feel a lot more relaxed now. I appreciate all the responses here. I shall update when I receive the next results.
> 
> Thanks again.


one thing you have to do is keep your head......if these things where really bad then you would be at the renal department by now.....i caused myself a whole world of pain over thinking what the GP said but in the end it was nothing........


----------



## garathnormanmtts (Jul 15, 2011)

What should we do when our kidneys a damaged ?


----------



## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

Im a type 1 diabetic and had a blood test a month back. Creatine levels are meant to be between 150 - 200 or something similar to this. Mine was sky high, something like 250 but I had done two workouts over two days and at the time I was following Dorian yates failure workout. I had a blood test last week (I didnt train for 4 days before hand and im not doing the same failure routine) and im waiting for the doctors to ring now with the results.


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

Mattious said:


> Im a type 1 diabetic and had a blood test a month back. Creatine levels are meant to be between 150 - 200 or something similar to this. Mine was sky high, something like 250 but I had done two workouts over two days and at the time I was following Dorian yates failure workout. I had a blood test last week (I didnt train for 4 days before hand and im not doing the same failure routine) and im waiting for the doctors to ring now with the results.


Good stuff, will be interesting to see the results, I have about 25 days before my next blood test.


----------



## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

Yeah they told me to leave it for a month before my next blood test, i left it for nearly 2 months, lol. Really dont like blood tests


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

garathnormanmtts said:


> What should we do when our kidneys a damaged ?


see a Renal specialist


----------



## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

PScarb said:


> see a Renal specialist


I know with heavy drinking and damage to the liver it can heal once you come of the alcohol but can anything be done to help kidney to heal/get better?


----------



## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Hi Trixta, I'd just like to back up everything PScab been saying to you so far, I've been studying clinical nutrition for a while now and it's good advice, while most diagnostic tools are based on the average person rather than an athletic population. Your doctor obviously has your best interest at heart though so don't lose sight of that.

Blood pressure and kidney function go hand in hand don't forget that.

As Paul says creatinine is degraded as a non-enzymic reaction, while exercise, creatine monohydrate and a high red meat diet will effect the output. I'd be interested to see the difference in creatinine if you used kre-alkalyn but that's a different matter. Your intake of 6g per day is excessive 3g on training days would be more than enough.

On the subject of protein intake though two long term clinical trials have investigated this: Locatelli et al 1991 and Klahr et al 1994 investigated the effects of high and low protein diets in patients chronic kidney failure, found no difference after 3 years on patient survival, kidney function or onset of end stage renal function.

one of the studies had a protein intake as high as 1.3g per kg of bw. which works out at just over 0.59g per lb of bodyweight. So for a 200lb man you'll consume more than enough protein to maintain muscle tissue, considering you only need between 80 - 120g per day to build muscle so long as your other macros are in check.

Do a little bit of cardio in the time being, train light, eat healthy and reduce your salt intake until your next visit.


----------



## The Trixsta (Sep 6, 2009)

AChappell said:


> Hi Trixta, I'd just like to back up everything PScab been saying to you so far, I've been studying clinical nutrition for a while now and it's good advice, while most diagnostic tools are based on the average person rather than an athletic population. Your doctor obviously has your best interest at heart though so don't lose sight of that.
> 
> Blood pressure and kidney function go hand in hand don't forget that.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for your response AChappell, I appreciate it a lot. It's very interesting to read what you've said. I have stopped my Creatine intake for now and if I decide to start it again I will be changing to Kr-Evolution. Would this be ok? Much better than the Holland & Barrett Monohydrate stuff? I shall also drop my creatine intake to 3G a day on training days. Should I maintain this on non-training days? Or perhaps lower the dosage on non-training days?

I'm pleased to read of these studies that have taken place on the consumption of protein. I can now increase my protein levels again without fear of worrying about damaging my Kidneys.

I no longer have salt on my food, I cut this out awhile back as I was concerned with how much I was consuming.

Thanks again for your reply.


----------



## adam.fisher456 (Jul 21, 2011)

*Injury* to the *kidney and ureter* is damage to these organs of the upper urinary tract. Symptoms: Acute or emergency symptoms may include: Abdominal pain; Abdominal swelling; Back pain; Blood in the urine; Decreased alertness


----------

