# shaun tavernier turns pro



## THE COLONEL (Mar 25, 2009)

well done got placed in the top 5 at the arnold which gives him his pro card. great potential


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

where did you find the result out? and did he place 5th?

any pics?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i am sure he will but placing top 5 gives him the oppertunity to request to turn Pro.....i think


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## THE COLONEL (Mar 25, 2009)

daniel.m said:


> where did you find the result out? and did he place 5th?
> 
> any pics?


on his facebook in his own words

no not yet


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> i am sure he will but placing top 5 gives him the oppertunity to request to turn Pro.....i think


Yeah I'm not 100% sure of the ins and outs, but I don't believe that any success at the arnold amateur guarantees a pro card. Roelly had to request his last year and he was awarding it, but it's not a given.

Are we 100% shaun has turned pro?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

I can be pretty certain that the UKBFF will give it to Shaun as he has yet to be beaten on a UK stage and did come a very close 2nd last year so consistancy is key he may have all ready had the nod from the teirneys and only has to go through the motions for the card, but no matter where they place if they place top 5 they have to go through that to get the card...


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## LeeB (Oct 5, 2011)

shaun has the potential to do amazing things in the 202 class, but also could lose out on the ukbff overall (as this year) to bigger physiques - i think the ukbff wont hold him back from doing us all proud as a pro!


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## BigStew (May 6, 2008)

Would make no sense for the UKBFF not to give him it as he is, with all due respect to the other light heavy competitors, in a different league.

Personally thought he was a little unlucky 2 years running not to win the overall at UKBFF British, but obviously had to 'pay his dues' like James & Zak.

Good luck to him!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

well i dnt think they should give it to him ppl like shaun sell tickets at the final? no shawn, james or zack now ao is t realy worth going? you have haroldus who didnt comp last year who else is worth the cash and travle to see?


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> well i dnt think they should give it to him ppl like shaun sell tickets at the final? no shawn, james or zack now ao is t realy worth going? you have haroldus who didnt comp last year who else is worth the cash and travle to see?


Me......Soon:cool:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Khaos said:


> Me......Soon


but not yet?


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## BigStew (May 6, 2008)

big_jim_87....

You can't deny someone just because "people like shaun sell tickets to the final," that's just ridiculous.

May as well have never given flex, james, zack or anyone a pro-card if that's a reason to deny them!

As for who else is worth the cash to travel to see....are you serious? You don't think there are any other competitors worth seeing at the most prestigious (but political) show in the UK?

Mmmm, very controversial & slightly insulting to all those that make the final!


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

If a class winner at the 2009 UKBFF placed in the top 5 at the Arnold they were entitled to their IFBB Pro Card...


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## NickR24 (Sep 9, 2009)

BRABUS said:


> If a class winner at the 2009 UKBFF placed in the top 5 at the Arnold they were entitled to their IFBB Pro Card...


I read this also, a top 5 arnold finish guaranteed the individual their pro card.


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## colloseum (Oct 20, 2008)

Shaun made the final five for the final which will be held today, so he has not actually been placed yet, I see it being between him and Sammi Al Haddad (former PDI pro came 2nd to Lee priest if I recall) We'll have a result tonight and i'm sure the pro card will be a mere formality regardless of Shauns placing, Shaun was born for that 202 pro class. :thumb:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BigStew said:


> Would make no sense for the UKBFF not to give him it as he is, with all due respect to the other light heavy competitors, in a different league.
> 
> Personally thought he was a little unlucky 2 years running not to win the overall at UKBFF British, but obviously had to 'pay his dues' like James & Zak.
> 
> Good luck to him!


i am sure they will but to be fair Shaun was beaten by Zack last year and James the year before him not winning had nothing to do with paying your dues and to be fair saying this is slightly insulting James and Zack.....



big_jim_87 said:


> well i dnt think they should give it to him ppl like shaun sell tickets at the final? no shawn, james or zack now ao is t realy worth going? you have haroldus who didnt comp last year who else is worth the cash and travle to see?


so because he sells tickets he should not be able to go Pro?? i think most will agree that the biggest draw o the UKBFF was Zack and he went Pro so why should Shaun not?



BRABUS said:


> If a class winner at the 2009 UKBFF placed in the top 5 at the Arnold they were entitled to their IFBB Pro Card...


they are entitled to apply for a card as are the overall winner of the finals all can be turned down



colloseum said:


> Shaun made the final five for the final which will be held today, so he has not actually been placed yet, I see it being between him and Sammi Al Haddad (former PDI pro came 2nd to Lee priest if I recall) We'll have a result tonight and i'm sure the pro card will be a mere formality regardless of Shauns placing, Shaun was born for that 202 pro class. :thumb:


Shaun must be p1ssed at these Pro's coming back as amateurs to compete against him?? this happened last year where he was beaten by a previous Pro who then switched country's so found a loophole to re compete as a amateur now Sammie who was a Pro in another federation now competing against amateurs.....you have to love this sport :thumb:


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Paul, is the only reason they would switch status back to amateur to get the prize money?

Not really sure on this as to become a pro is the pinnacle; but there must be some reason they decide to switch- is it solely trophy hunting?


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## XL (Aug 12, 2009)

Any pics up from the Arnold?


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

LittleChris said:


> Paul, is the only reason they would switch status back to amateur to get the prize money?
> 
> Not really sure on this as to become a pro is the pinnacle; but there must be some reason they decide to switch- is it solely trophy hunting?


apparently some amateurs are paid by their country to remain amateur, so it is more profitable, not to mention they like to collect titles.

plus guys like Sami, who has competed with other pro organizations like PDI, and Battle of Giants probably had a hard time getting back in with the IFBB.


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## Seyyed-Merat (Sep 1, 2007)

daniel.m said:


> apparently some amateurs are paid by their country to remain amateur, so it is more profitable, not to mention they like to collect titles.
> 
> plus guys like Sami, who has competed with other pro organizations like PDI, and Battle of Giants probably had a hard time getting back in with the IFBB.


yeah an iranian bodybuilder called ali tabrizi won the iffbb world champ comp a couple of times, didnt turn pro, switched to compete for qatar cus of the money they offered, went back to iran, finally turned pro winning the worlds again, but couldnt make it for the 2009 europa cus of visa issues....think hes back with qatar now, maaaad:bounce:


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## daniel.m (Aug 21, 2006)

just found some photos of shaun tavernier on bb.com..heres the link

http://contest.bodybuilding.com/gallery/contest/15961/event/1/mode/will/page/294


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> i am sure they will but to be fair Shaun was beaten by Zack last year and James the year before him not winning had nothing to do with paying your dues and to be fair saying this is slightly insulting James and Zack.....
> 
> *so because he sells tickets he should not be able to go Pro?? i think most will agree that the biggest draw o the UKBFF was Zack and he went Pro so why should Shaun not?*
> 
> ...


no i just think he should do the brit final for that card? it is prob his last year any way? he would prob have won it this year any way?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

BigStew said:


> big_jim_87....
> 
> *You can't deny someone just because "people like shaun sell tickets to the final," that's just ridiculous*.
> 
> ...


no but just because i have said this will not make any one take tha card way so chill buddy......

no i was not......

its just (ppl like me) go for the freaks! and other then shawn the rest are just lacking that freaky look? unless they have made good progress in the last year (hope they have)

Alvin small was amaizing last year didnt think he should have won class the year b4 but last year i think it was a lot closer! he maid what i thought was fukin amaizin! gains from year to year.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

LittleChris said:


> Paul, is the only reason they would switch status back to amateur to get the prize money?
> 
> Not really sure on this as to become a pro is the pinnacle; but there must be some reason they decide to switch- is it solely trophy hunting?


don't know mate....no matter the federation a Pro is a Pro in my eyes don't see the challenge to return or stay an amatuer....but hey thats me.....or maybe guys like Sammi are going back to the IFBB with their tails between their legs because they feel they stand a chance in the 202 class......probably go back to the PDI when he does not win shows in that class:whistling:


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

I really rate Shaun both as a bodybuilder and a person. I look forward to seeing what he brings to the pros.


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Has the arnold amateur even gone underway? I can't see the results anywhere! If not, wtf is this thread about?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

AlasTTTair said:


> Has the arnold amateur even gone underway? I can't see the results anywhere! If not, wtf is this thread about?


the pre-judging has happened and Shaun made the top 5 which is today, as a class winner at the UKBFF finals he is now eligeable to apply for his Pro card no matter the placing.......you need to search more:thumb:


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## round 2 (Jan 14, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> the pre-judging has happened and Shaun made the top 5 which is today, as a class winner at the UKBFF finals he is now eligeable to apply for his Pro card no matter the placing.......you need to search more:thumb:


Why do they make things so complicated? It should be you win this show or that show you turn pro! :confused1:


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

if lee priest was winning it so far anyone got pics?


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> the pre-judging has happened and Shaun made the top 5 which is today, as a class winner at the UKBFF finals he is now eligeable to apply for his Pro card no matter the placing.......you need to search more:thumb:


Aah gotcha - I've just been looking on MD and couldn't find anything


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

Ok I'm a bit confused here. How come he didn't apply for his pro card last year? He was a class winner then and came 2nd (i think) at the arnolds??


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## staffy (May 25, 2005)

Shaun placed 3rd .... well done bro!!


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2010)

staffy said:


> Shaun placed 3rd .... well done bro!!


Fantastic, great stuff, well done Shaun! :thumb:


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## NickR24 (Sep 9, 2009)

Who won if shaun got 3rd? Also, has the main event itself happened yet?


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

Well done Shaun, nice one mate!!

J


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## stow (Jun 5, 2007)

Good work


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

So how come he didnt turn pro last year? Sorry to ask again but I cant work it out?


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

willsey4 said:


> So how come he didnt turn pro last year? Sorry to ask again but I cant work it out?


From what i can understand its a new ruling that was implemented this year, ie 2009 UKBFF class winners.....invited to Amateur Arnold....place top 5....have opportunity to get their Pro card...

Has anyone any news on the other British competitors ??


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

BRABUS said:


> From what i can understand its a new ruling that was implemented this year, ie 2009 UKBFF class winners.....invited to Amateur Arnold....place top 5....have opportunity to get their Pro card...
> 
> Has anyone any news on the other British competitors ??


Thanks mate. Makes sense now if it was implemented this year.

Did Alvin go or anyone else?


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

willsey4 said:


> Thanks mate. Makes sense now if it was implemented this year.
> 
> Did Alvin go or anyone else?


I believe the following also went.....

Alvin Small

Pat Warner

Nanu Manu

and Wayne Robinson...invited for a win at the 2009 Expo i believe..


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## merve500 (Sep 10, 2008)

how did lee williams get on?


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

lee williams got 2nd


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

OJay said:


> lee williams got 2nd


So does Lee get a pro card now???


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> imo arnold classics a mockery of a system that
> 
> imo all should
> 
> ...


bloody hell Scott your back! Where you been!?!?

I do agree if you re the above. Or something just needs to be set on giving out pro cards. Defo should have to win their class and then maybe finish well at the arnolds to apply.

However can Alvin not apply then???


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

dutch_scott said:


> imo arnold classics a mockery of a system that workd
> 
> flex
> 
> ...


very well said mate:beer:


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

Disagree with the above. SJT already did win a British Title (infact 3 times) - that was his ticket: the Arnold was merely proving his worth.

There are several other worthy potential UK pros; having a system where these guys and girls can get their pro cards should be embraced. They have nothing to prove; they're already champions.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2010)

Its better this way, instead of having 1 pro a year. More british bb'ers on the pro scene the better


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i can see the argument for both sides to be fair, i see Dutch's point but then i do feel that if this is the case for all countries then why not the UK?? it is the way the women can only get a Pro card now (by this i mean placing in a show outside the uk)


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be fair Dutch european countryies have their Pro's from placing top 6 at the Worlds we give a Pro card for the Mens overall so we are different and we are not the US.....

as for tradition n years gone by Pro-card where given out for class winners which in my opinion was not a good idea i think this gives the best of both worlds.....no one is going to the Arnold or Worlds without first placing first in their class at the Britain......so both sides should be happy........although they never are


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## Mike Gelsei (Mar 10, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> i can see the argument for both sides to be fair, i see Dutch's point but then i do feel that if this is the case for all countries then why not the UK?? it is the way the women can only get a Pro card now (by this i mean placing in a show outside the uk)


Paul - don't think I'm getting at you but you bring up a couple of points that need to be clarified.

Most European countries do not give a pro-card for winning their national championships and that is why we have many competitors from outside the UK trying to compete here. Outside of us and the USA the only way for a pro-card is top 3 at Europeans or top 6 at Worlds.

As for the women in the UK the overall champion beats another 6 or 7 competitors whereas the men's champion beats nearly 10 times that amount. I personally would love to see a British female on the pro stage but the way things are at the moment in my opinion they would simply be overwhelmed. Just look at the quality of the European and World amatuer championships and you will see what I mean.


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

Mike Gelsei said:


> Paul - don't think I'm getting at you but you bring up a couple of points that need to be clarified.
> 
> Most European countries do not give a pro-card for winning their national championships and that is why we have many competitors from outside the UK trying to compete here. Outside of us and the USA *the only way for a pro-card is top 3 at Europeans or top 6 at Worlds. *
> 
> As for the women in the UK the overall champion beats another 6 or 7 competitors whereas the men's champion beats nearly 10 times that amount. I personally would love to see a British female on the pro stage but the way things are at the moment in my opinion they would simply be overwhelmed. Just look at the quality of the European and World amatuer championships and you will see what I mean.


i thought this was what pscarb was saying bro so you both agree


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## bigkiwi (Oct 2, 2008)

Great effort Shaun - well deserved mate. Hope this means you are still around the gym regularly to give me advice and motivation in times of need.


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## HTID (Oct 4, 2008)

Listen All, for the short time SJT has been on the scene, his acheivements are second to none, he,s our very own British Phil Heath, who was destoned to be a pro. So in my book no discussion on when or how he gets his pro card, the lad deserves it and the more the merrier for british bodybuilding. :cool2: world look out. :beer:


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## Usual Suspect (Sep 4, 2009)

Well done Shaun, you deserve it. Great fella & will become a great ambassador of the sport for British Building..


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2010)

nice one shaun.

Glad to see a genuinlly nice guy get his pro card.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Dan said:


> Its better this way, instead of having 1 pro a year. More british bb'ers on the pro scene the better


WHY? as it stands at the moment flex has been the only one to make an impact in the 202 class - the more we have turning the pro the more guys will get lost in pro line ups and not make any real impact

personally i think pro status should only come about from winning national overall or worlds - if you can't do that then you will not make it as a pro

shaun has one of the most pleasing physiques for a while but he has just got his pro card from placing 2nd or third at an amateur show - meaning he was beat by two other amatuers, is he going to make an impact as a pro when there is two new pros on the scene already that are better than him if they take their cards?


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2010)

glen danbury said:


> WHY? as it stands at the moment flex has been the only one to make an impact in the 202 class - the more we have turning the pro the more guys will get lost in pro line ups and not make any real impact
> 
> personally i think pro status should only come about from winning national overall or worlds - if you can't do that then you will not make it as a pro
> 
> shaun has one of the most pleasing physiques for a while but he has just got his pro card from placing 2nd or third at an amateur show - meaning he was beat by two other amatuers, is he going to make an impact as a pro when there is two new pros on the scene already that are better than him if they take their cards?


i sort of agree, but what you have to remember is that shaun has only done a handfull of shows in his life and is at the standard he is so he could easily take a break now and make the gains needed to make up those two places. if he was banging away year after year then i would say you were right.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

yeah, i wasnt just meaning shaun though - I was talking generally about giving pro cards away at every oppurtunity - whats the point in loads of people turning pro if they can't make an impact


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

glen danbury said:


> WHY? as it stands at the moment flex has been the only one to make an impact in the 202 class - the more we have turning the pro the more guys will get lost in pro line ups and not make any real impact
> 
> personally i think pro status should only come about from winning national overall or worlds - if you can't do that then you will not make it as a pro
> 
> shaun has one of the most pleasing physiques for a while but he has just got his pro card from placing 2nd or third at an amateur show - meaning he was beat by two other amatuers, is he going to make an impact as a pro when there is two new pros on the scene already that are better than him if they take their cards?


I agree actually!

:beer:


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## staffy (May 25, 2005)

To be fair there are a good few guys out there that been offered pro cards and decline and stay amateur as they earn more money that way by being paid by there country! there are now 2 classes in the IFBB.... under 202 and open so there should 2 cards given at the British, 1 for each class!


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

Mike Gelsei said:


> Paul - don't think I'm getting at you but you bring up a couple of points that need to be clarified.
> 
> Most European countries do not give a pro-card for winning their national championships and that is why we have many competitors from outside the UK trying to compete here. Outside of us and the USA the only way for a pro-card is top 3 at Europeans or top 6 at Worlds.
> 
> As for the women in the UK the overall champion beats another 6 or 7 competitors whereas the men's champion beats nearly 10 times that amount. I personally would love to see a British female on the pro stage but the way things are at the moment in my opinion they would simply be overwhelmed. Just look at the quality of the European and World amatuer championships and you will see what I mean.


Mike to be fair I don't think the UKBFF make it easy for our girls either as the British judges seem to not favour girls who carry *alot* of muscle...we are sending girls to the Europeans and Worlds who as you yourself said are 'overwhelmed' because the European and World competitors are much bigger and have good quality dense muscle.

At the British Champs our girls are not 'allowed' to present an 'overly developed' muscular physique but it is precisely what is needed if we are going to be winners at World Class events. You only have to look at the pictures of the Arnold's and the recent World Champs (Masters as well)to see the kind of muscularity required to be world beaters......

The standards or rules for judging across the various Nations seem to be interpreted very differently in order for this chasm between the Brit girls and the rest of the world to exist....

Perhaps you can tell me in terms of judging what 'lose the bulk means?'


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## Fivos (Sep 1, 2004)

Damn is it so hard to congratualte someone? Well done I say! Shaun turning Pro is a given. Come on you cant be that blind to think he wont make an impact. Shaun is one of the countries top potential bodybuilders we have and the 202lb what Shaun will be competing in. As for if he deserves a Pro card of course he does! We should be giving 2 IFBB Pro cards now not 1. Remember being a successful IFBB Pro encapsualtes all aspects of bodybuilding not just on stage.

Its just typical of this country not encourging potential..same old story!

Fivos


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2010)

Fivos said:


> Damn is it so hard to congratualte someone? Well done I say! Shaun turning Pro is a given. Come on you cant be that blind to think he wont make an impact. Shaun is one of the countries top potential bodybuilders we have and the 202lb what Shaun will be competing in. As for if he deserves a Pro card of course he does! We should be giving 2 IFBB Pro cards now not 1. Remember being a successful IFBB Pro encapsualtes all aspects of bodybuilding not just on stage.
> 
> Its just typical of this country not encourging potential..same old story!
> 
> Fivos


Spot on.


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

Fivos said:


> Damn is it so hard to congratualte someone? Well done I say! Shaun turning Pro is a given. Come on you cant be that blind to think he wont make an impact. Shaun is one of the countries top potential bodybuilders we have and the 202lb what Shaun will be competing in. As for if he deserves a Pro card of course he does! We should be giving 2 IFBB Pro cards now not 1. Remember being a successful IFBB Pro encapsualtes all aspects of bodybuilding not just on stage.
> 
> Its just typical of this country not encourging potential..same old story!
> 
> Fivos


My thoughts too!

In response to Glen: Shaun didn't get his procard from placing at the Arnold, he got it from winning a British title and placing at the Arnold. There's a huge difference here.

Let's give this new system a few years please guys, if UK pros arn't doing well then feel free to criticise then. However, I welcome this new opportunity and I'm confident we'll see an eruption of UK bodybuilding on the international scene: this will be good in so many senses and the postive impact this will have on our community will be infectious throughout gyms in the UK.

Trust me on this!


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

glen danbury said:


> WHY? as it stands at the moment flex has been the only one to make an impact in the 202 class - the more we have turning the pro the more guys will get lost in pro line ups and not make any real impact
> 
> personally i think pro status should only come about from winning national overall or worlds - if you can't do that then you will not make it as a pro
> 
> shaun has one of the most pleasing physiques for a while but he has just got his pro card from placing 2nd or third at an amateur show - meaning he was beat by two other amatuers, is he going to make an impact as a pro when there is two new pros on the scene already that are better than him if they take their cards?


Doesnt exactly mean 'cos they beat him on the day they are BETTER than him....Look at the Pro circuit, placings change from show to show...

Personally i think winning your class at the finals and then placing in the top 5 at the Arnolds could be a good thing for British Bodybuilding. Aswell as turning a pro, its the whole moment of winning your class and then getting the invite to the Arnold and the personal potential from that. Its got to be inspiring.....


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mike Gelsei said:


> Paul - don't think I'm getting at you but you bring up a couple of points that need to be clarified.
> 
> Most European countries do not give a pro-card for winning their national championships and that is why we have many competitors from outside the UK trying to compete here. Outside of us and the USA the only way for a pro-card is top 3 at Europeans or top 6 at Worlds.
> 
> As for the women in the UK the overall champion beats another 6 or 7 competitors whereas the men's champion beats nearly 10 times that amount. I personally would love to see a British female on the pro stage but the way things are at the moment in my opinion they would simply be overwhelmed. Just look at the quality of the European and World amateur championships and you will see what I mean.


i believe we actually said the same thing Mike.....  i still maintain my opinion about the female Card though.....i have heard the company line about the European route to a Pro card many times as you mention every other European country does not give a pro card out to the overall winner and they need to go onto the Europeans or the worlds to gain a card which is fair enough so why do we? why do we give it out to just Men and not Women, i have asked this a few times but no one can actually answer the question clearly......

i am all for women going to the Europeans and Worlds to gain the card as long as the men do to......?

Glen in shaun's case last year he came 2nd to a past EFBB Pro who had gone back to being an amateur for money, and i think Shaun was beat by Sammi who again was a PDI Pro then turned over to the EFBB to compete as an amateur again.....so in truth Shaun has not exactly been beaten by guys who are strictly amateurs....... :whistling:


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> just for arguements sake was
> 
> six time mr o dorian yates
> 
> ...


Hi Scott

Yates, Taylor, Clairmont and Harrison were all years ago; beyond 10 years. But yes I believe Yates and Taylor had a very positive impact back then.

However, things have moved on conisderably since those days: recreational training, the bodybuilding industry and the competative scene have all more forward. We hear more about BBing these days, primarily due to the Internet. And yes I do feel Lewis, Powell, Hodgson and Khan are all bringing a positive aura to the scene. I'm sure James Llewellin will further this in 2010 too. Keep an eye on Louise Rogers too.

Last year's Finals showed just how hungry you need to be to get anywhere: with more top class physiques on the circuit you need to remain just as famished as ever; maybe even more so: there's still only a very limited number of cards up for grabs. The standard of physiques on the UK amateur scene is nothing short of phenominal.

PS - I agree about size


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

glen danbury said:


> WHY? as it stands at the moment flex has been the only one to make an impact in the 202 class - the more we have turning the pro the more guys will get lost in pro line ups and not make any real impact
> 
> personally i think pro status should only come about from winning national overall or worlds - if you can't do that then you will not make it as a pro
> 
> shaun has one of the most pleasing physiques for a while but he has just got his pro card from placing 2nd or third at an amateur show - meaning he was beat by two other amatuers, *is he going to make an impact as a pro when there is two new pros on the scene already that are better than him if they take their cards?*


Ronnie Coleman got his ass handed to him by others before his olympia streak, when somebody is judged better on a particular day they then have to keep that consistancy or the in turn will get beat, Branch Warren beat Kai and Phil at the Olympia, but Kai won the Arnolds and Phil placed 2nd


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

Also imo winning your class at the Brits then placing at the Arnolds Amateur is going to give a hell of a lot of publicity on a wider(weider) stage


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

Khaos said:


> Ronnie Coleman got his ass handed to him by others before his olympia streak, when somebody is judged better on a particular day they then have to keep that consistancy or the in turn will get beat, Branch Warren beat Kai and Phil at the Olympia, but Kai won the Arnolds and Phil placed 2nd


don't get me wrong - well done to shaun as i stated he has a great physique and will probably do very well. my general point was to dan who was stating more people should be getting pro cards yet britian has done nothing in the IFBB pro scenes throughout the last decade except flex so whats the point in giving pro cards to those below that standard?

granted some can turn pro and then take a few years to continue to develope and then start winning but its equally valid that if that is the case then why not stay amatuer until that point - after all if your not winning the overall theres still guys better than you at that level


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes and no Glen.....there are Pro's on the circuit who did not win the overall to get their cards, Lee Powell i think got his from winning his class....and he has done ok...

the problem here is that we all expect the guys from the UK to win shows when we have a handful of pro's compared to the amount the yanks have plus it is not helped by no Pro shows in Europe......

the 202 class has opened up loads of opportunities for may BB now.....we have James L, Shaun and Zack who i feel will add to the success Flex has had.....although i feel flex helped his chances by moving to the states and getting his name known something most other British Pro's have not done to well......

Lee Williams and Nana have the chance to turn Pro will they ?? not sure should they why not?? there are standards set to achieve a Pro card currently these are

Overall British

top 3 Europeans

top 6 Worlds

top 5 Arnold classic

the first option for most like Nana and Lee is not a real chance as they are pitched against guys 2-3 stone heavier so the other 3 opportunities should be taken......if a bodybuilder has reached the given standards they should and deserve to turn Pro if they wish.....


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

I can see your point but personally still feel that those going to compete in a pro class would be better off if the entry was of a hard criteria as in doing so would ensure success once on stage and not like so many of the british pros off late who seem to get lost in pro line ups

the introduction of the u202 has given some of our smaller guys a better chance so maybe theres a case for someone that way


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

but nana will be giving away 2-3 stone to people the same height,

gunter is prob 6" taller than silvio so thats a HUGE difference


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

dutch_scott said:


> gotta jump on this paul for this reason... its bodybuilding..a harsh sport... did anyone tell lee priest being 70lbs was not a real chance...silvio samuel beating gunter ..atwood et al who r 6-7stone heavier?
> 
> flex beat daz and it was 5 stone....
> 
> ...


Name dropping Dutch thats not like you.....  :whistling:

suprisingly enough some guys actually get their pro cards and use that staus to benefit them in business Jamo is a prime example another one who did not win the overall yet applied for his Pro card did do nothing at all as a Pro BB but has certainly made himself a good living in the fitness/BB coaching scene and i am damn sure his Pro status certainly helped.......

in the NPC they have pro-cards for guys who win their class so why can't the UK guys benefit from that as well??

weird when how when others have gained their Pro card without winning the overall there was no uproar there was no question of his abilities yet guys like

Lee Powell, John Hodgson or Sheridan all received their card from winning their class and all have competed at the top of their game.....

funny really as not to long ago their where discussion on the forums of not having enough Pro cards given out yet when the UKBFF try to address this it still is the wrong move......(wow i just stuck up for the UKBFF)

weird how all this talk about not giving out a Pro card unless you win your national overall title yet the greatest Mr O of all time Ronnie Coleman got his from winning the Heavyweight class at the Worlds in 1991 4yrs later he gained his first top 3 placing.....2yrs after that his first win.....

give the guys a chance lads if they take their cards don't judge them they have earned that right if they don't do anything with them then what harm has been done??

lets back the guys who achieve this status not question them.....


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

paul - my concern was for their long term development and the amateur competitive scene

if they turn pro, realise they cant make something out of it and quit competing who has that benefited?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Glen that is cool but the way this thread has gone is to dismiss these guys have a right to earn their card this way.....they are competing within the rules and if they meet the criteria and place in the top 3 or 6 of the respect show why should they not get a Pro card?? i do not see how this damages the amateur scene though as we are talking about guys who rarely get beaten in the amateur scene so i do not see how it damages it??

or they can go back to competing as a an amateur just like Alex from wales has done


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> so do u now believe that if we push through some more pros... and they get eaten up in the scene abraod then our domestic scene will lose out...?
> 
> eg. say zack..saun..alvin..james had all gone pro at the arnold had this rule been last year..... then at the brits it would have been daz ball... an maybe warner.... where would the buzz have been?
> 
> ...


There are a number of other good Brits with a lot of potential. If you were at the Brits you'll have felt the buzz of the u80kg class - what a line up!


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## Ex-SRD (Sep 9, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> gotta jump on this paul for this reason... its bodybuilding..a harsh sport... did anyone tell lee priest being 70lbs was not a real chance...silvio samuel beating gunter ..atwood et al who r 6-7stone heavier?
> 
> flex beat daz and it was 5 stone....
> 
> ...


But Scott, in a show where one card is given, it's simply who's the best on the day. In 2009 it was Zack. This doesn't mean Shaun or others didn't have the potential. In 2008 it was James. Again Shaun had the potential.

It is simply a case of who was best on the day.

Like Paul said, people moaned about not enough Pro Cards, we fed that back to the UKBFF, they listened, they reacted positively, people still moan!


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2010)

Ex-SRD said:


> But Scott, in a show where one card is given, it's simply who's the best on the day. In 2009 it was Zack. This doesn't mean Shaun or others didn't have the potential. In 2008 it was James. Again Shaun had the potential.
> 
> It is simply a case of who was best on the day.
> 
> Like Paul said, people moaned about not enough Pro Cards, we fed that back to the UKBFF, they listened, they reacted positively, people still moan!


i think your right, people will moan no matter what tbh. like i said shaun has a fistfull of shows under his belt and his at the standard, so what he could achive with the competitions under his belt that others have could be enough to put him right up there


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## Jojo 007 (Feb 9, 2009)

Im ignoring the debate going on here, and just wanna say 'well done Shaun, fantastic news!!'  :rockon: :bounce:


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Interesting debate!

Anyway, best of luck to shaun or any of the other british team who have now been given authority to apply for their pro card


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## carly (Mar 8, 2008)

HUGEEEE well done to shaun and all the other UKers, fantastic results all round!! :bounce:


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

As always a great debate. To say that it has just been Flex that has made waves in the 202 is a little unfair, remember we had 3 guys placing in the top 10 at the 202 Olympia Showdown in 2009; that's pretty special for a country with limited gene pool.

Shaun does have tremendous potential and I have always championed him, hell I even helped him to his 2nd place at the Arnold last year and his UK win last year!!

HOWEVER.

IMO Shaun now needs a well earned rest. His physique at the Arnold wasn't up to his showing at the UK's or the Arnolds last year and it looked tired. He has dieted almost constantly for 2 years now. I told him he now needs to put his faith in a top nutritionist to guide him and give his physique a chance to be the very best it can be.

Shaun has top 5 202 Olympia written all over him. He has probably the best genetics of any shorter BBer in the UK at the moment apart from Flex, who I feel actually has more potential in this class than Shaun. Remember Shaun is only 5'2" and most of the top 202 guys are 5'5" to 5'7". There comes a point when a physique will look blocky at 5'2". However, Shaun is blessed with tiny hips and a tiny waist, so he does have that very much on his side.

What I told Shaun he really needs to work on is his conditioning and forget about weight. Once he does this and is able to be guided by somebody who gets to know his bodytype, he will go on to even more greatness I am sure. He already has mass, the tiny joints, flaring muscle bellies; its now just about that polished and crisp look that will make all those attributes pop out on stage and make him look 20lb heavier than he is.

Shaun is a good friend of mine and we have become close over the last couple of years but i still will offer him guidance if he asks for it. I know my place in BBing and although I am a good BBer, I will never be a 'great'

Shaun has the potential to be and do what ever he wants to in this sport and that god given talent and blessing should not be wasted or taken at all for granted by him or anyone else.

Well done Shaun, you've worked damn hard for this. Welcome to the IFBB!!!!

J


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

supercell said:


> As always a great debate. To say that it has just been Flex that has made waves in the 202 is a little unfair, remember we had 3 guys placing in the top 10 at the 202 Olympia Showdown in 2009; that's pretty special for a country with limited gene pool.
> 
> Shaun does have tremendous potential and I have always championed him, hell I even helped him to his 2nd place at the Arnold last year and his UK win last year!!
> 
> ...


totally agree with this bit in bold james....


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Massive congrats to SJT!! He really really deserves his pro card and I for one am glad there's more than one card on the table now for our top amateur guys.

Us brits are never happy unless we're moaning about something, grumble grumble.


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