# importance of macro ratios?



## dovberry (May 10, 2012)

Hi guys. Just looking for some quick advice regarding bulking.

I am a former competitive swimmer, 5'11" and 75kg @ around 11% bf.

I am currently eating around 3500 cals a day. I was wondering what everyone's opinions are on the ideal macro ratio?

At the moment I am achieving 50% carbohydrate 25% protein and 25% fat.

Is it worth incorporating low carbohydrate days/low fat days or just maintaining same macro ratio all week?

I notice a few people cycle low carb days/high carb days. Is this beneficial or is the ultimate aim or hitting your calorific targets more important?

Please note that I am a swimmer and am still training at least four times a week in the pool whilst getting 3-4 gym sessions in. Obviously this makes gaining weight significantly harder (eating and extra 800 cals on swim days) but god loves a trier.

Thanks in advance for the advice!


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

I would roughly work out how many calories you need to be in a surplus.

Stick to 1g per lb of bodyweight

At least 20% of your calories should come from fats and fill the rest with carbs. As long as you hit your minimums on protein and fats for the day then its okay. If you go over on protein and fats and dont have as many carbs dont worry its fine. Its all about a lifestyle that you can stick too.

In terms of cycling carb days, its good idea if you want to try and keep your body fat levels low


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

ratio's are extremely outdated.

the only time a calorie ratio is important is when doing keto.

Your body doesn't work in ratios, it works in requirements. ie the fat minimum fat and protein requirements remain the same at 1500 and 3000 calories, the additional calories is mostly energy. If we did this in ratios, the fat and protein consumpion would double in those circumstance which we know factually isn't true.

Of course macro allocation can change depending on STEDs, sports and nutrient timing, but there is no one size fits all macro ratio

All that matters is that it gets the amount it needs. As per percentage of a total volume diet, it's just an over simplified bit of bad (bro)science

again, this isn't my opinion. This is scientific fact.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> ratio's are extremely outdated.
> 
> the only time a calorie ratio is important is when doing keto.
> 
> ...


^ This

Another reason why macro percentages are bunk - protein requirements drop as carb intake & total calories increase. Normally, 40-50% of the protein you eat never makes it to the bloodstream - it gets oxidised by the liver for energy. A calorie surplus and/or lots of carbohydrates coming in at the same time downregulates this process, leaving more protein available for the body to utilise. This is one reason why vegetarian bodybuilders can cope with lower protein intakes - because their diet tends to be quite high carb.

On a bulk, I eat 250g protein and 4,500 cals (22%) whilst on a cut I'm more likely to go for 300g protein and 3,100 cals (39%)

The basic rule is to consume at least 2g protein and 1g fat per kilo of lean bodyweight, and to fill the gap with whatever mix of nutrients you prefer. Some guys genuinely feel they do better on low carbs, whilst others prefer high. A very general rule of thumb is that the more active and the more naturally lean/skinny you are, the more likely a higher carb diet will work for you.

So for me - maintenance cals are about 3,800, and my lean bodymass is around 85kg, so my protein should be >170g and fat >85g. I'll typically go for 250g protein, 130g fat and 400g carbs.

Bulking it's 250g protein, 170g fat and 500g carbs (4,500 cals) and cutting more like 300 pro, 100 fat and 250 carb


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Never given a feck to macro ratios. Load of bollox if you ask me. If you wanna grow, eat more, if you wanna lose fat, eat less.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

dovberry said:


> Is it worth incorporating low carbohydrate days/low fat days or just maintaining same macro ratio all week?
> 
> I notice a few people cycle low carb days/high carb days. Is this beneficial or is the ultimate aim or hitting your calorific targets more important?
> 
> Please note that I am a swimmer and am still training at least four times a week in the pool whilst getting 3-4 gym sessions in. Obviously this makes gaining weight significantly harder (eating and extra 800 cals on swim days) but god loves a trier.


With all this activity, having low-carb or low-fat days is just pointless & probably counterproductive. Your main challenge will be to get enough grub down your neck to cover all the swimming & lifting, and still leave a calorie surplus to allow for muscle growth.

Carbs should make up the biggest chunk of your calories with this sort of lifestyle because of the constant drain on your glycogen reserves. But don't be afraid of eating more fat too if you are struggling to eat enough or getting bloated.

There is no such thing as an ideal balance between carbs & fat, because your body regulates the amount of energy it gets from carbs & fat depending on what's coming in. If you eat less carbs & more fat, your body will upregulate fat burning and downregulate carb burning. A higher carb diet does the reverse.


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## Hotsince88 (Feb 7, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> ratio's are extremely outdated.
> 
> the only time a calorie ratio is important is when doing keto.
> 
> ...


The OP opened by saying he wanted to bulk. If he wanted to do a clean bulk, would you still consider ratios to be outdated?



Major Eyeswater said:


> ^ This
> 
> Another reason why macro percentages are bunk - protein requirements drop as carb intake & total calories increase. Normally, 40-50% of the protein you eat never makes it to the bloodstream - it gets oxidised by the liver for energy. A calorie surplus and/or lots of carbohydrates coming in at the same time downregulates this process, leaving more protein available for the body to utilise. This is one reason why vegetarian bodybuilders can cope with lower protein intakes - because their diet tends to be quite high carb.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's me but isn't this a bit contradictory? On one hand somebody is saying ratios are outdated, whilst on the other your giving advise on how to calculate daily protein, carb and fat gram intake. A ratio is just another way of looking at numbers ...


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Bulking for me means 200 grams of Carbs more than Protein's with the same amount of fat intake than a regular diet.

If I want to increase my calories I increase Carbs and Protein, the % of each doesn't matter for me really.

I don't necessarily count calories, I just know that I need more energy, that is, Carbs, a crazy amount of Protein, and that you don't need much Fats. For instance my next bulk will be about:

Carbs: 600 grs

Protein: 400 grs

Fats: 80 grs

I simply hate not eating a balanced diet, the paleo diet, the ketogenic diet, the fruitarian diet and pretty much all the fancy diets can kiss my a$$.

As for you, knowing that you need muscle, you don't need much really. You better train for your sport instead of training for your preferences, I'm a swimmer that turned to bodybuilding, you need to be ripped, strong but fast, explosive and have endurance, focus on that instead of simply gaining muscle.

I never lifted a weight in my life those days, swimming gave me the exact physique and muscle growth I needed.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Hotsince88 said:


> Maybe it's me but isn't this a bit contradictory? On one hand somebody is saying ratios are outdated, whilst on the other your giving advise on how to calculate daily protein, carb and fat gram intake.  A ratio is just another way of looking at numbers ...


What I'm saying is that trying to apply some magic ratio like 40/40/20 is not the way to do it - for the reasons given. You need so many grams of protein to optimise growth, so many grams of fat to keep you healthy and so many grams of carbs to keep your glycogen topped up (or a maximum amount of carbs if you want to put your metabolism into ketosis)

Your body isn't going to stop growing if your protein intake drops below 20% of total calories, but might stop growing if it drops below 100g per day

You are much better off thinking in terms of grams of


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Hotsince88 said:


> The OP opened by saying he wanted to bulk. If he wanted to do a clean bulk, would you still consider ratios to be outdated?
> 
> Maybe it's me but isn't this a bit contradictory? On one hand somebody is saying ratios are outdated, whilst on the other your giving advise on how to calculate daily protein, carb and fat gram intake. A ratio is just another way of looking at numbers ...


Yes


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

if you want either optimal muscle gains...optimal fat loss...or recomping to be optimal... macros are absolutely important ... specifically protein and fat macros...carbs don't matter you just have to be in a caloric deficit

eat 20:20:60 pro,fat,carb and see what you look like compared to 40:40:20 pro,fat, carb

elite athletes, bodybuilders and physique athletes all track macros somewhat...again specifically the protein and fat macros


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

JuggernautJake said:


> if you want either optimal muscle gains...optimal fat loss...or recomping to be optimal... macros are absolutely important ... specifically protein and fat macros...carbs don't matter you just have to be in a caloric deficit
> 
> eat 20:20:60 pro,fat,carb and see what you look like compared to 40:40:20 pro,fat, carb
> 
> elite athletes, bodybuilders and physique athletes all track macros somewhat...again specifically the protein and fat macros


Sigh. You got so close to getting it


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## JuggernautJake (Nov 6, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> Sigh. You got so close to getting it


I don't get it? what did I say


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

JuggernautJake said:


> I don't get it?


Correct.

But don't worry, you'll get there


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## Hotsince88 (Feb 7, 2015)

simonthepieman said:


> Correct.
> 
> But don't worry, you'll get there


Does belittling people over the internet make you feel good? Why not just be a grown up and explain yourself better and help the person questioning you understand. It would be better for everybody, mostly the person that started this post.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Hotsince88 said:


> Does belittling people over the internet make you feel good? Why not just be a grown up and explain yourself better and help the person questioning you understand. It would be better for everybody, mostly the person that started this post.


I'm not going to lie. It feels amazing.

BTW. Its been explained already


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