# Do you prefer clean or dirty bulking and why?



## Electro (Apr 7, 2015)

Just out of curiosity, be interesting to see whether people prefer clean or dirty bulking and understand different reasons why.

Personally, I'm inbetween - I eat mostly relatively clean foods but will often have chocolate/biscuits etc to meet my calorie needs.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

i consider most of my calories pretty clean but the more im pushing up the cals the more i think ill need to use dirty foods.

Personally i think its going to be a case of the higher the cals you need the more likely hodd there is that you will need to eat dirty to hit those cals.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I lean bulk using a flexible dieting approach.


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## Electro (Apr 7, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I lean bulk using a flexible dieting approach.


How many kcal surplus? How's that working for you?


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

I tend to keep it clean when bulking i feel and look healthier. Some days trying to get 5000 calories in clean can be hard but just has to be done........ i will of course top certain days up with dirty foods if needs be as when bulking adding an extra bit of weight aint gonna hurt you but just dont get TOO fat


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## Electro (Apr 7, 2015)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> I tend to keep it clean when bulking i feel and look healthier. Some days trying to get 5000 calories in clean can be hard but just has to be done........ i will of course top certain days up with dirty foods if needs be as when bulking adding an extra bit of weight aint gonna hurt you but just dont get TOO fat


True, what BF% would you class as TOO fat? Once abs start dissapearing?


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## beckham7 (Dec 9, 2005)

Ultrasonic said:


> I lean bulk using a flexible dieting approach.


id like to try flexible approach however im not sure i could eat only a little bit of something without going all in , cant just have a slice of pizza need the whole thing


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

Electro said:


> True, what BF% would you class as TOO fat? Once abs start dissapearing?


Thats really up to you how you like to look...... i can look at myself and say right I need a couple low carb days each week for the next 4 weeks to lean out.... or i can say right i am slightly too lean or smaller but not strong so i need to add in more calories and put a bit of extra weight on.

Also changing your diet often will help shock your body....... you cant be in a cut for 52 weeks a year..... you need to cut and bulk... cut and bulk... for example stick to a bulking diet for a good 12 weeks then do a mini 6 week cut etc etc


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Electro said:


> How many kcal surplus? How's that working for you?


No idea on the excess, I judge it by only gaining fat slowly.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

beckham7 said:


> id like to try flexible approach however im not sure i could eat only a little bit of something without going all in , cant just have a slice of pizza need the whole thing


I eat a whole pizza about once per fortnight...

You're right though, flexible dieting isn't for everyone because you do need to be able to control how much you eat. It also requires you to track what you eat.

My diet is mostly foods that would be considered healthy of course.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I'm bulking with clean foods but not concerned about bf....not sure which category that puts me in.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FelonE said:


> I'm bulking with clean foods but not concerned about bf....not sure which category that puts me in.


No biscuits? Why the change?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> No biscuits? Why the change?


Saving them for when I need to up cals


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

i think i need to eat more clean im up at 130kg now up 15kg on this cycle lols


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## Jon.B (Mar 8, 2011)

I too use a flexible dieting approach and lean bulk all year round.

A couple of years ago i tried a dirty bulk consisting of lots of high calorie fast food on top of the usual diet. The scales went up massively (2 stone from memory) but mostly body fat, blood pressure was through the roof. Took 16 weeks on an agressive cut to get down to the low teens bodyfat.


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## jimbo83 (Feb 7, 2014)

> I tend to keep it clean when bulking i feel and look healthier. Some days trying to get 5000 calories in clean can be hard but just has to be done........ i will of course top certain days up with dirty foods if needs be as when bulking adding an extra bit of weight aint gonna hurt you but just dont get TOO fat


I'm the same, when bulking I tend to be circa 12/14%, i use the mirror as a guide so if I see ab visibility dropping I cut the sh*t out for a few weeks.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

jimbo83 said:


> I'm the same, when bulking I tend to be circa 12/14%, i use the mirror as a guide so if I see ab visibility dropping I cut the sh*t out for a few weeks.


It's not the sh1t your eating, it's eating too much of it that'll make you fat.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I count protein and calories and eat junk in moderation, odd "dirty" bit of food here and there and I always treat myself to a takeaway at the weekend. That goes whether I'm bulking or cutting, certainly never slowed me down while cutting this spring and it's put a good amount of muscle on me.


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## Electro (Apr 7, 2015)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> I count protein and calories and eat junk in moderation, odd "dirty" bit of food here and there and I always treat myself to a takeaway at the weekend. That goes whether I'm bulking or cutting, certainly never slowed me down while cutting this spring and it's put a good amount of muscle on me.


Pretty much exactly what I'm doing right now!


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

> Pretty much exactly what I'm doing right now!


One takeaway a week is never gonna hurt when cutting if it's just one meal a week and you don't go mad and eat 5000+ calories in one sitting, which is easily done I know all too well :lol: But when I'm bulking I tend to get a takeaway on the Saturday night and have loads of leftovers for the next day, whereas when I'm cutting I just get enough for the one meal.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

toxyuk said:


> i think i need to eat more clean im up at 130kg now up 15kg on this cycle lols


Eating "clean", does not mean you gain less fat.


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## keeptrying (Mar 27, 2015)

I eat entirely 'clean' calories, but a vast excess of them, due to a stressful job and shift work my maintanence calories vary by an obscene amount (I can vary from not sitting down for 6 hours, half an hours break then another six hours running around) to sitting down entirely for the same length of time. Unfortunatly I tend to maintain a high body fat level, otherwise i struggle to gain weight at all.


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> Thats really up to you how you like to look...... i can look at myself and say right I need a couple low carb days each week for the next 4 weeks to lean out.... or i can say right i am slightly too lean or smaller but not strong so i need to add in more calories and put a bit of extra weight on.
> 
> Also changing your diet often will help shock your body....... you cant be in a cut for 52 weeks a year..... you need to cut and bulk... cut and bulk... for example stick to a bulking diet for a good 12 weeks then do a mini 6 week cut etc etc


Man one could learn alot from you.......Damn are you an IFBB Pro by any chance :whistling:


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Eating "clean", does not mean you gain less fat.


It still surprises me how many people don't understand the basics of calories in vs calories out and think eating clean means they won't get fat lol.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

I use both, bulking and eating clean all the time gets tiring.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

I eat what the f**k I want and I don't get too fat..

I burn my daily calories during the night and train abs at the same time


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> It still surprises me how many people don't understand the basics of calories in vs calories out and think eating clean means they won't get fat lol.


I've got bodybuilders at my gym, that still think it. I've told them many times healthy does not mean you won't gain fat. Gets on my tits lol.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> I've got bodybuilders at my gym, that still think it. I've told them many times healthy does not mean you won't gain fat. Gets on my tits lol.


At least this forum is mostly better now  . I remember when I first joined 10 years ago nobody was really talking about anything other than eating clean, and I knew no better.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

keeptrying said:


> I eat entirely 'clean' calories, but a vast excess of them, due to a stressful job and shift work my maintanence calories vary by an obscene amount (I can vary from not sitting down for 6 hours, half an hours break then another six hours running around) to sitting down entirely for the same length of time. *Unfortunatly I tend to maintain a high body fat level, otherwise i struggle to gain weight at all.*


Last sentence doesn't make sense?

Have you tried not eating a vast excess of "clean" calories? You might find the high level of body fat will come down.


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Can't even maintain my weight without eating junk. I need pizzas and cream to get the calories in because I don't get hungry anymore for some reason.

Bulking on 5k+ kcal and eating only foods that most consider "clean" would stretch your stomach.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> At least this forum is mostly better now  . I remember when I first joined 10 years ago nobody was really talking about anything other than eating clean, and I knew no better.


I was the same.

Saying that I created my own diet, not being a big eater. I used to blend 3 tins of tuna with water and then in a separate drink 150g maltodextrin with orange squash, this was 3 servings.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> I've got bodybuilders at my gym, that still think it. I've told them many times healthy does not mean you won't gain fat. Gets on my tits lol.


My Mrs brothers gf was here the other day. She's lost a fair bit of weight and said her brother (a fitness instructor watch out) said she needs to avoid fats and carbs or she'll get fat again. I said you're brother knows fvxk all. Eat what you want just don't overeat. Fats/carbs don't make you fat....too many calories do.

She said me and him would get on.....I don't think we would lol


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## DSG (Nov 13, 2015)

FelonE said:


> My Mrs brothers gf was here the other day. She's lost a fair bit of weight and said her brother (a fitness instructor watch out) said she needs to avoid fats and carbs or she'll get fat again. I said you're brother knows fvxk all. Eat what you want just don't overeat. Fats/carbs don't make you fat....too many calories do.
> 
> She said me and him would get on.....I don't think we would lol


I say the same thing to my uncle. He said the doctor told him to stay below something like 6g of fat a day (lol) to lose weight fast, I tell him that it's all about calories but he doesn't listen. Swears he's lost a tonne of weight since he's started it but that's just because he's reduced overall calories anyway!


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

FelonE said:


> My Mrs brothers gf was here the other day. She's lost a fair bit of weight and said her brother (a fitness instructor watch out) said she needs to avoid fats and carbs or she'll get fat again. I said you're brother knows fvxk all. Eat what you want just don't overeat. Fats/carbs don't make you fat....too many calories do.
> 
> She said me and him would get on.....I don't think we would lol


Didn't you know carbs are the devil


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

FelonE said:


> My Mrs brothers gf was here the other day. She's lost a fair bit of weight and said her brother (a fitness instructor watch out) said she needs to avoid fats and carbs or she'll get fat again. I said you're brother knows fvxk all. Eat what you want just don't overeat. Fats/carbs don't make you fat....too many calories do.
> 
> She said me and him would get on.....I don't think we would lol


No you wouldn't lol


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

DSG said:


> I say the same thing to my uncle. He said the doctor told him to stay below something like 6g of fat a day (lol) to lose weight fast, I tell him that it's all about calories but he doesn't listen. Swears he's lost a tonne of weight since he's started it but that's just because he's reduced overall calories anyway!


Fvxking silly ain't it. I cut to around 10% eating biscuits haha


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Say what you will but on certain drugs you will put on more fat on a high fat diet. I can get away with with a huge surplus if it's carbs. I just overheat. Anyone who has run tren knows what I'm talking about.

Insulin opens another can of worms. Most people who use it know you put on more fat when you eat fat when it's active. So since your body produces insulin naturally it is only logical to assume the same thing happens naturally but on a much smaller scale.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

iamyou said:


> Say what you will but on certain drugs you will put on more fat on a high fat diet. I can get away with with a huge surplus if it's carbs. I just overheat. Anyone who has run tren knows what I'm talking about.
> 
> Insulin opens another can of worms. Most people who use it know you put on more fat when you eat fat when it's active. So since your body produces insulin naturally it is only logical to assume the same thing happens naturally but on a much smaller scale.


Wrong.

Overall calories dictate weight gain/loss....not the macros it's made up from


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

iamyou said:


> Say what you will but on certain drugs you will put on more fat on a high fat diet. I can get away with with a huge surplus if it's carbs. I just overheat. Anyone who has run tren knows what I'm talking about.
> 
> Insulin opens another can of worms. Most people who use it know you put on more fat when you eat fat when it's active. So since your body produces insulin naturally it is only logical to assume the same thing happens naturally but on a much smaller scale.


I'll respond from a natty POV.

Macro splits is a little different to discussing 'clean' or not. It is the calorie excess that will determine fat gain, but there is an argument for the body adapting to excesses of carbs and fat differently, so that over time what this calorie excess is changes differently for different macro splits. That is the 'energy out' side of the energy balance equation may change differently. None of this makes higher carb or higher fat better, what you want to do is not eat too much in the first place.


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## keeptrying (Mar 27, 2015)

> Last sentence doesn't make sense?
> 
> Have you tried not eating a vast excess of "clean" calories? You might find the high level of body fat will come down.


I eat 500Kcal over maintanence, unfortunatly, I can't tell whether or not I am am going to be on my feet continously for 12+ hours, or sitting down the entire day until i get to work so my actual maintanence calories vary hugely. My bodyfat percentage is at what I would consider an acceptable but not ideal level, I lose weight at less than 3500Kcal per day generally so im confident that I can cut when the time comes, for now, holding a bit more fat allows me to not worry about losing weight on the extremely tiring days, which i would otherwise do.

Thankyou for the advice though


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

keeptrying said:


> I eat 500Kcal over maintanence, unfortunatly, I can't tell whether or not I am am going to be on my feet continously for 12+ hours, or sitting down the entire day until i get to work so my actual maintanence calories vary hugely. My bodyfat percentage is at what I would consider an acceptable but not ideal level, I lose weight at less than 3500Kcal per day generally so im confident that I can cut when the time comes, for now, holding a bit more fat allows me to not worry about losing weight on the extremely tiring days, which i would otherwise do.
> 
> Thankyou for the advice though


Assuming you don't eat your whole day's food at breakfast, why not adjust what you eat each day depending on how active you are? I eat extra on days I'm more active than normal.


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

I dont really give a sh*t about clean vs dirty, I diet clean but if I feel like junk I go for it (not over do it though) Im not a mcdonalds or icecream lover, but a nice piece of stake, chicken fajitas without measuring really what I eat... Weekend the odd burger and pizza and train like a beast'ish.

On a bulk I do my diet macro or go over it, on aa cut however Im hyper strict on food, except once a week while Im above 6 weeks out, if Im that 6week time frame I go through hell.


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## keeptrying (Mar 27, 2015)

> Assuming you don't eat your whole day's food at breakfast, why not adjust what you eat each day depending on how active you are? I eat extra on days I'm more active than normal.


Its a fair idea, to be honest its just a matter of convenience, I pre plan the meals and the times to eat them then take them to work and do so, if i know its been an easy week I tend to just up the cardio slightly.

Delibrate change of smiley? very apt.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

keeptrying said:


> Its a fair idea, to be honest its just a matter of convenience, I pre plan the meals and the times to eat them then take them to work and do so, if i know its been an easy week I tend to just up the cardio slightly.
> 
> Delibrate change of smiley? very apt.


Not sure what smiley you are talking about?

What you could do is plan your food for a lower calorie day and then have treat foods like chocolate bars or whatever you like on hand for if you have a more active day.

I'll be honest and say that from your first post it sounds a little like you're giving yourself an excuse to gain extra fat. Certainly don't think that carrying extra body fat is offering you an advantage. But if you're happy with how things are going, carry on.


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## keeptrying (Mar 27, 2015)

In my original post i put a smiley face smiley, in the quote it appears on my laptop as a chubby face, wasnt sure whether it was a joke, might just be an apt formatting issue.

To be fair you raise a good point about the Kcals, i appreciate the honesty, im not actually gaining body fat, its simply that it is a bit high and isnt going down. Im gonna stay as I am for now as ive never really been keen on the whole recomping idea, if body fat starts climbing i will certainly change things.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

What are we classing as a dirty bulk? Bulking using a high surplus or bulking with some 'junk food' in the diet?


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## uhitmeudie (Sep 11, 2014)

When I'm bulking I just get my protein in (170-220g) and then whatever I fancy. Not too fussed as it is winter and I have like 2-3 layers on always.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Eating "clean", does not mean you gain less fat.


harder to get fat eating clean though


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

zyphy said:


> harder to get fat eating clean though


No it isn't


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

@banzi oh. other people talking about clean eating. Must be alien talk eh?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

zyphy said:


> harder to get fat eating clean though


Is it? It is just simple calorie control. I would however deem my diet poor, but it is calorie controlled and serving its purpose.

I see it all too often, people around me, eating clean in full off season mode, still gaining fat, and usually more than me.

What I try and teach, if and when people want to listen, is you can actually eat a chocolate bar if you want one, and not worry, just account for it.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Is it? It is just simple calorie control. I would however deem my diet poor, but it is calorie controlled and serving its purpose.
> 
> I see it all too often, people around me, eating clean in full off season mode, still gaining fat, and usually more than me.
> 
> What I try and teach, if and when people want to listen, is you can actually eat a chocolate bar if you want one, and not worry, just account for it.


My point isn't to do with calories. If I eat all clean I'll struggle to hit 6k. If i eat crap I'll surpass that easy. Clean food sits in your stomach a lot longer


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## Galaxy (Aug 1, 2011)

iamyou said:


> Say what you will but on certain drugs you will put on more fat on a high fat diet. I can get away with with a huge surplus if it's carbs. I just overheat. Anyone who has run tren knows what I'm talking about.
> 
> Insulin opens another can of worms. Most people who use it know you put on more fat when you eat fat when it's active. So since your body produces insulin naturally it is only logical to assume the same thing happens naturally but on a much smaller scale.





FelonE said:


> Wrong.
> 
> Overall calories dictate weight gain/loss....not the macros it's made up from


I do agree with ianyou on this one especially with the use of exo insulin.

Overall cals yes, but introduce drugs snd it does have an effect which changes things a bit!!


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

zyphy said:


> My point isn't to do with calories. If I eat all clean I'll struggle to hit 6k. If i eat crap I'll surpass that easy. Clean food sits in your stomach a lot longer


Very true, hence why I've switched to dirty dirty a while back.


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## damn shame (Jan 2, 2015)

I ate pizza for breakfast today, my other meals where oats/peanut butter and protein shake, chicken/potatoes and soon I will have a large steak with spinach. So when bulking I am very flexible with my diet.

When cutting I just lower my carbs and calories.


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## lewdylewd (May 18, 2015)

Electro said:


> True, what BF% would you class as TOO fat? Once abs start dissapearing?


 Once my dick starts disapearing under my belly I know my bf% is creeping to high 

Srs though I bulk quite dirty mainly because I have a s**t appetite so eating loads of clean cals is a nightmare, and I like fast food too much, can't stomach a few thousand cals of chicken, rice, and veg when McDonalds is open. I seem to be able to keep bf% reasonable no matter what I eat and any excess fat I drop within no time if I take some stims, maybe I'm just lucky in this regard though.

This is just to meet my aims though, i've never yet aimed for super low bf%, I think if I did I'd have to be stricter. ATM I'm happy to be gaining size and strength while having at least 4 visible abs.


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## Demented Intent (Feb 19, 2011)

I find that eating clean to get over 4000 cals is just difficult as hell, thats a hell of a lot of rice! and pasta, plus im one of those guys that can eat all day and not put fat on so I just eat what I can to get the calories in


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> Also changing your diet often will help shock your body....... you cant be in a cut for 52 weeks a year..... you need to cut and bulk... cut and bulk... for example stick tobulking diet for a good 12 weeks then do a mini 6 week cut etc etc


 What makes you think this is the case? I suppose what do you count "cut". Do you mean contest ready year round? Because you can stay very lean year round with no issue and still grow tissue if you do it right. Will it be SLOWER than all out bulking periods? Yes of course. But many people my self included stay very lean with no problem. Constantly fluctuating is quite unhealthy and a recipe for obesity in later life.

Which do I prefer? Well who doesn't enjoy eating "dirty" foods haha. But no the leaner/cleaner I keep it the better I look.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Was recently hitting 7400 cals and the only 'dirty food' was Cocopops. Didn't put a single pound on in two weeks.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Was recently hitting 7400 cals and the only 'dirty food' was Cocopops. Didn't put a single pound on in two weeks.


 what are your maintenance cals ?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

ILLBehaviour said:


> FelonE said:
> 
> 
> > Was recently hitting 7400 cals and the only 'dirty food' was Cocopops. Didn't put a single pound on in two weeks.
> ...


Well I wasn't putting weight on so couldn't be far off that then but I was doing 60 sets on upper body day and 48 on lower day. Have changed routine to ppl with less volume now though


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## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

ConP said:


> What makes you think this is the case? I suppose what do you count "cut". Do you mean contest ready year round? Because you can stay very lean year round with no issue and still grow tissue if you do it right. Will it be SLOWER than all out bulking periods? Yes of course. But many people my self included stay very lean with no problem. Constantly fluctuating is quite unhealthy and a recipe for obesity in later life.
> 
> Which do I prefer? Well who doesn't enjoy eating "dirty" foods haha. But no the leaner/cleaner I keep it the better I look.


 




cyclical bulking - a very useful strategy. Its what i believe it but as we ALL KNOW in this bodybuilding game everyone is different.


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