# Lower reps better for nattys?



## chasinggains (Sep 16, 2016)

I've always taken the approach of a mixed rep range works best, low rep heavy weight for the compounds, and then higher reps with slightly less weight for isolation work.

I recently came across Mike Matthews website who seems to suggest low rep only is the way forward for natural trainers.

http://www.muscleforlife.com/guide-to-muscle-hypertrophy-muscle-growth/

Now this seems to go against the standard "8-12 for hypertrophy" response that you see spouted everywhere, but his photos / research seem pretty convincing.

I've been doing his routine for the last couple of months and while the lifts have been going up each week, I don't feel like I've gained much in terms of size, or maybe this is because I don't have the "pump" from my usual higher rep work.

Thoughts? Also, has anyone done his routine / bought his book?



Chest

Sets

Reps



Incline Barbell Bench Press

3

8

50%

Incline Barbell Bench Press

3

4 - 6



Incline Dumbell Bench Press

3

4 - 6



Flat Barbell Bench Press

3

4 - 6



Cable Crunch

3

10 - 15











Back







Rack Pulls

3

8

50%

Rack Pulls

3

4 - 6



Barbell Row

3

4 - 6



Wide Grip Pull Ups

 3

4 - 6



Close Grip Lat Pulldowns

3

4 - 6



Barbell Shrugs

2

4 - 6











Shoulders







Military Press

3

8

50%

Military Press

3

4 - 6



Side Lateral Raise

3

8 - 10



Bent Over Rear Delt Raise

3

8 - 10



Face Pulls

3

8 - 10



Cable Crunch

3

10 - 15











Legs







Barbell Squat

3

8

50%

Barbell Squat

3

4 - 6



Leg Press

3

4 - 6



Romanian Deadlift

3

4 - 6



Leg Press Calf Raise

3

8 - 10



Standing Calf Raise

3

12 - 15











Upper Body







Incline Barbell Bench Press

3

8 - 10



Barbell Curl

3

8

50%

Barbell Curl

3

4 - 6



Close Grip Bench Press

3

4 - 6



Dumbbell Curl

3

4 - 6



Seated Tricep Press

3

4 - 6


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Quick response as I haven't read the link.

There is no solid scientific evidence to clearly conclude than any particular rep range is optimal, and training over a variety of different rep ranges remains probably the most sensible approach, with recent studies suggesting going even as high as 25-30 reps being beneficial for growth provided failure is reached.

Some recent discussion on the subject:

https://bretcontreras.com/discussing-muscle-hypertrophy-science-with-brad-schoenfeld/


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## chasinggains (Sep 16, 2016)

Take a look at the link if you can mate, it seems to make sense and the photos speak for themselves. Would be good to hear your thoughts.

What do you think of the above routine?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

chasinggains said:


> What do you think of the above routine?


 It isn't a routine that I would follow. More relevant though is how do you feel your progress has been on it compared to other things you've tried? There is no one perfect routine that everyone should follow...


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

You can't go wrong with 8-12 IMO.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I never go over 5 reps with the big 3 lifts, but will go anywhere between 6 and 20 with other lifts. Sometimes I may even do drop sets of 40 or 50 reps.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Usually do 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps then a last set to finish off with until absolute failure, between 10-15 reps


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## Dute (May 22, 2015)

It's purely how much work is put forth mate.

Example: 5 sets of 8 are the same as 8 of 5 for growth.

But you'll be picking up heavier weights in the lower rep range. Ie:more strength building potential.

Nothing's really proven though so do what ever you like most


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Everything works for a while. Then it's normally the opposite that yields the best progression.


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## mrvest (Oct 27, 2012)

I think one of the key lines in that article is that that photo were taken 2.5 years apart I.e. consistency and progressive overload over time will yield the results you want.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

For naturals looking to bodybuild I'd strongly suggest using a range of reps.

Brad Schoenfeld says it best in this excerpt from one of his articles:

The claim that muscle growth is maximized in a moderate rep range (6-12 reps per set) continues to be a source of debate in the fitness field. Although this theory is backed by some research, evidence on the topic remains far from conclusive. But for arguments sake let's say that moderate reps are in fact best for gaining size. Does that mean that you should train exclusively in this narrow rep range? The answer is an unqualified, "No!"

Training in a lower rep range (1-5 per set) maximizes strength increases, thereby facilitating your ability to use heavier weights during moderate rep training. In this way, you create greater tension in the muscles, spurring better growth. High reps (15-20 per set), on the other hand, help to increase your lactate threshold.

By delaying the buildup of lactic acid, you stave off fatigue when training in the "hypertrophy range," (the muscle building range) thus increasing time under tension-another important aspect of the growth process. Bottom line is that optimum muscle development is best achieved by using the full spectrum of rep ranges.

*Your fix:* Periodize your program so that it is built around a moderate repetition protocol, but you make sure to include training in both the lower and higher rep ranges.

Although a number of different periodization models work, I recommend a modified linear approach beginning with a strength phase (lower reps), followed by a fairly short metabolic phase (high reps) and then culminating with a hypertrophy phase (the typical 6 to 12 range).

Depending on your goals and body, this might mean sticking with a particular rep range for a longer period of time. (Such as not changing every 4 weeks.) When properly implemented, this produces a "supercompensation effect" so that you maximize muscular gains and see a peak at the end of the training cycle.

With time, you might then want to shift to a non-linear approach, where you shift rep ranges more frequently to hit all phases.

The above is an excerpt from an interview article here (http://www.bornfitness.com/muscle-building-mistakes/) that also discusses some other factors worth considering in setting up a long term routine.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I think your first sentence hit it on the head really, mix up your rep range. If you're on a bro split, you can start heavy on a big compound. Then a mid-range compound or two for moderate reps, 8-12ish. Then finish up with a pump on an iso, either high reps or several sets with short rests or dropsets. If you're on a routine with higher frequency, like an upper/lower, you can have heavy and light days.


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## smallboy (Jun 13, 2013)

how about

Set 1: 4-6 reps (progressive overload)

Set 2: 8-12 (drop weight by 10-15% and reps for volume)

Set 3: 8-12 (same weight as 2nd set)

Set 4: 8-12 (same weight as 2nd set)

or

Set 1: 4-6 reps (progressive overload)

Multiple sets (rest pause and drop 10-15% weight): 3 reps each 20-30 sec rest until total 30 reps.


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## Yorkylifter (Oct 15, 2016)

I always like to mix it up abit. I'll do 2 months at around 3 set of 10-12 reps all round then the 3rd month i up my weight and do 3 sets of 3-5 reps and that works really well for me


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

To many people overthinking this s**t.

I say stick to the basics, heavy compound lifting using progressive overload to stress the body sticking between 6 - 12 reps. Take your rest periods and food as serious as your time in the gym and you will grow.


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## Disclosure (Nov 14, 2016)

I vary it mate

With compound lifts I usually do 3-8 reps, but I'll also do drop sets with like 12-15 reps on bench for example. It's on the accessories I usually do higher reps


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## Slindog (Oct 6, 2009)

Natty, found the best is pyramid

12 to 14 rep lower wieght

10 reps Up weight

8 reps up weight

Stay at eight reps or 6 reps and up weight


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Everything works for a while then it's normally the opposite that works best.

Dont get hung up looking for an 'perfect' routine. Do something that works then when it stops do something else


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## 75013 (Feb 22, 2017)

Nattys who want to get big need to work all the muscle fibre types, which means a wide variety of rep ranges. Some people have more slow twitch fibres than fast twitch fibres (so they may respond better to using higher reps more often), but everyone has a mix. By only doing 8-12 or 6-8 you'll surely only be developing part of the muscle. Also there is evidence for the use of a 4 second eccentric- this has been proven to be best for both strength and hypertrophy. A good mind muscle connection definitely helps to focus the work on the right muscles too especially with the posterior chain muscles.


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