# is it possible to lose fat without a calorie deficit?



## WRX333 (Oct 13, 2008)

As above, I'm tryin to drop 3-4% bf mainly from around my stomach to reveal abs. At the same time I want to gain lean mass or at least maintain the mass I already have. My diet is very clean with v low carbs & a lot of lean meats. I do 20 mins running every morning & train heavy weights & abs 4 times per week.

Can I lose fat whilst eating surplus calories [to feed muscle]?

Cheers


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I think you can certainly gain lean mass and lose fat at the same time but in trying to do both at the same time you can never do both to their best.

From playing around with things, I find the best way to continue adding muscle when calorie restricted to lose fat is to not reduce calories from food significantly (300kcals daily or less or even no reduction in food at all) but to create the defecit from extra work in the gym. The higher food intake than a normal cut keeps your metabolism high and well away from 'starvation mode' when your body looks to cling on to bodyfat during a calorie defecit.


----------



## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

This thread could get a bit intense. It's a bit like the old nature or nurture argument.

Is a calorie a calorie is a calorie.

One school of thought is that a calorie is a calorie regardless of source.

THe other is that different foods have different metabolic effects so it does matter what calorie types are.

NOw to answer the first question, the answer can be yes you can. I say this because the way we mathematically calculate our calorific requirements is very subjective and doesn't take many many other variables into account. It is only a model. Therefore, using this theoretical model on a gifted human who burns calories more efficiently than the average, then the answer would be yes. But on the other end of the scale the abosolute opposite would be true. It is like the bell curve of standard deviation, the model will fit most of the people most of the time, but at the bottom of the bell you have extremes.

IMO, it's best to create a defecit. It's how bodybuilders get ripped, whilst maintaining as much mass as possible. If cutting whilst on maintenance or above was a viable option, they why the FCUK isn't everyone doing it???


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Part of the issue with cutting fat vs muscle growth and how to go about it is how aggresively you want to do those things. If you want to lose fat and still build muscle but are happy to do both gradually then a very slight defecit will suffice, and getting that from exercise rather than food restriction will do fine. Doing this way is actually pretty easy but it means slower growth and slower fat loss than either focusing just on cutting or on bulking alone. Most people wouldn't be patient enough for this though and liek to do at least one thing fairly quickly.

In my opinion, altering ratios of macros (am specifically thinking of lowering carbs and raising healthy fats) helps more if you have impared insulin sensitivity, are very overweight initially and are starting from a high content of fast carbs in your diet than if you already come to the diet with good insulin sensitivity, a decent diet and not much bodyfat to lose. You should ensure decent protein intake whatever you are doing but it becomes even more inportant if looking to maintain muscle mass during an overall caloric defecit.


----------



## spaynter (Jul 6, 2009)

IMO Yes it is.

But..... as hinted above, I'd say it's most likely if you're genetically gifted (probability is you're not), or if you're starting from a low base of not being a trained individual and / or cr*p diet.

If you're trained and a sensible eater, to lose fat, you're probably going to have to create a caloric deficit.

Then we're into the 'is a calorie always a calorie' argument. IMO it's more complicated than that. Whilst a calorie is a fixed unit of energy, the hormonal and metabolic effects of different macros make the 'calories out' part of the 'calories in < calories out' equation a bit of a moving feast.

ie eating 500g of sugar for 2000 kcals will have a vastly different effect than 300g protein and 90g fat on your bodies ability to control fat loss through insulin production (or lack of it). Extreme example I know.

Anyhow, like Joe says, you want to cut, you'll probably have to do what everyone else is doing......


----------

