# Swole Troll's guide to dealing with acid reflux



## swole troll

*TLDR? jog on and enjoy your acid reflux, everything below is relevant to fixing your problem without medication that has nasty long term side effects*

So you spicy bastards

for the last 6 months I've suffered from acid reflux that was brought on by a tren cycle and then my weight and diet compounded it but I have now fixed it with no meds.

At first I went the 'obvious' route of taking rennie when it flared up thinking it'll pass, it didn't so i turned to a more long term option that 'fixes' the issue rather than masks it, a proton pump inhibitor or as some of you might know it as omeprazole

problem solved.. nope, the acid reflux went but recent data and study has linked PPI drugs to stomach cancer as well as bone fractures, B12 deficiency and gut infections

they tested 60,000 people and about 150 developed stomach cancer as a direct result of their omeprazole use so the odds are low but with the other long term sides being far more common I would say it's a good reason to try and not take PPI's particularly after the next point I'm going to make about your acid reflux..

in the VAST majority of case in those that don't have hiatal hernias* acid reflux is cause by an under production of stomach acid not an over production* so PPI's are actually exacerbating the problem

I first questioned the effectiveness of omeprazole when I was taking it and noticing some insane bloat due to the stomach struggling to digest the food

I then started reading up and watching videos which to my surprise showed that it is almost always an under production of stomach acid causing acid reflux

the reason being is the food hits your stomach and stomach acid is squirted over it but not enough to 'lower' the food in your stomach which means there is acid sitting on top of it close to the esophagial sphincter and splashing through.

*so how do you fix this? *

** clean your diet up, processed foods and grains are a common cause of digestion issues*
** drop all antacids and PPI's *
** start drinking 250ml of kefir morning and night also when you are experiencing acid reflux (this tastes like s**t so neck it fast!) *
** start taking apple cider vinegar first thing in the morning, 1-2 tablespoonfuls *
** if you are eating a lot of food / are struggling to digest what you are eating then get yourself a digestive enzyme, the best I've used is lindens heal nutrition digestive enzymes daily *

*the above will cure the majority of cases but if not you may have to drop some body weight and stop eating 2 hours before you go to bed to decrease total intra abdominal pressure and allow your digestive system some down time, you can also increase the 250ml of kefir to having it with each meal, this is just until the problem is solved then you can slowly start reducing it again to a morning, night and flare up protocol*

trust me on this, I was apprehensive as I was experiencing acid reflux and the thought of actively trying to increase my stomach acid made me feel sick but I assure you in the vast majority of cases doing all of the above WILL work

there is one caveat, if you are running tren or orals then just stick with the PPI's for the duration of your cycle then run the above, you can try the above first but in that scenario you may struggle in which case use the PPI's until you come off as acid reflux can progress into GERD and then your life truly will be miserable and you are at risk of developing throat cancer.

videos nut-shelling some of the above:


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## Frost_uk

A good read thanks, I sometimes get acid reflux from intermittent fasting, usually in the morning from sleeping on a empty stomach and I pop a ranitidine And then it's fine, during bulking I did used to eat before bed and a pint of milk and within an hour be in bed due to not enough hours in the day lol that was a nightmare could only sleep on my left hand side otherwise I'd get bad acid reflux.


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## swole troll

Frost_uk said:


> A good read thanks, I sometimes get acid reflux from intermittent fasting, usually in the morning from sleeping on a empty stomach and I pop a ranitidine And then it's fine, during bulking I did used to eat before bed and a pint of milk and within an hour be in bed due to not enough hours in the day lol that was a nightmare could only sleep on my left hand side otherwise I'd get bad acid reflux.


 yea if its only short term an antacid or PPI can be great but if its chronic then it needs addressing without masking the problem or unknowingly making it worse


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## Jonk891

Dropping bodyweight, eating cleaner foods, digestive enzymes and Apple cider vinegar have helped me out. I had to drop brown rice for white and lower my intake of oats as well. My main carb source now is white rice I'm eating half a kilo a day along with one serving of white potatoes


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## swole troll

Jonk891 said:


> Dropping bodyweight, eating cleaner foods, digestive enzymes and Apple cider vinegar have helped me out. I had to drop brown rice for white and lower my intake of oats as well. My main carb source now is white rice I'm eating half a kilo a day along with one serving of white potatoes


 That's a good point

I agree that slower digesting options like brown rice are better served on a deficit

Just too hard on the digestion having it sat around all day when you are eating large amounts of food every few hours

The gas and bloat can make it really hard to keep getting the food down and then less clean options become more appealing


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## Jonk891

swole troll said:


> That's a good point
> 
> I agree that slower digesting options like brown rice are better served on a deficit
> 
> Just too hard on the digestion having it sat around all day when you are eating large amounts of food every few hours
> 
> The gas and bloat can make it really hard to keep getting the food down and then less clean options become more appealing


 This is definitely true I even prefer the white rice when cutting just because it digests better and there is less bloating.


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## Kazza61

Solve the issue by taking two bricks once a night. Place them under the headboard or bed legs closest to your head so that when you sleep you are at a slightly inclined angle. This will help stop the acid leaking up out of your stomach and in to your oesophagus.

Another options which achieves the same outcome is a wedge pillow.


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## Frost_uk

Bought some braggs Apple cider vinegar and started it this morning with 2 tbl spoons in cold water, not great tasting but palatable so just swig it down.... found this interesting also -


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## swole troll

Frost_uk said:


> Bought some braggs Apple cider vinegar and started it this morning with 2 tbl spoons in cold water, not great tasting but palatable so just swig it down.... found this interesting also -


 ACV is good and definitely helps hence i listed it above but the MVP is kefir

depending on how bad your acid reflux is and whether ACV sorts it out or not grab some kefir if you are still getting it

you dont need to use kefir forever, i did about 2 weeks worth of morning and night 250ml glasses and it sorted out 8 months worth of acid reflux and now i take nothing, just eat clean(er) and try to keep body weight down a bit


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## Frost_uk

swole troll said:


> ACV is good and definitely helps hence i listed it above but the MVP is kefir
> 
> depending on how bad your acid reflux is and whether ACV sorts it out or not grab some kefir if you are still getting it
> 
> you dont need to use kefir forever, i did about 2 weeks worth of morning and night 250ml glasses and it sorted out 8 months worth of acid reflux and now i take nothing, just eat clean(er) and try to keep body weight down a bit


 Just starting my winter slow bulk so food intake is increasing slowly which usually starts me off with acid reflux, will try kefir if I find it happens more.


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## Kazza61

Frost_uk said:


> Bought some braggs Apple cider vinegar and started it this morning with 2 tbl spoons in cold water, not great tasting but palatable so just swig it down.... found this interesting also -


 I find all these 'best kept secret' videos really amusing. I can just imagine elite bodybuilders saying to each other 'Hey Roelly, keep it to yourself, but I'm now doing 5ml of Apple Cider vinegar a day! Shhhh....Not a word ok?'


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## swole troll

Frost_uk said:


> Just starting my winter slow bulk so food intake is increasing slowly which usually starts me off with acid reflux, will try kefir if I find it happens more.


 It tastes like absolute s**t and is really spicy on the tongue but defo the lesser of two evils

If you start to get acid reflux as you bulk just try 250ml first thing in the morning and if that fails up to morning and night and then finally with each meal if it gets really bad

Tesco does the cheapest one at avlit £1.25 for a litre but a couple pols I work with reckon the polish shops do it cheaper again

Again though like I said above of you're taking orals or tren it's unlikely the natural remedies will work


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## CarpeDiem76

@swole troll Hi dude, as i've said before i'm an acute sufferer of this, I can see where you're coming from, i'm prescribed Pantoprazole and Ranitidine but it doesn't feel like these actually help the cause at all so will question the doctor when I go to my hospital appointment on Thursday, I have to have a tube up my nose and into my stomache to measure the PH level over a 24hr period, really quite interested to see the result of this test as it's really grinding me down at times, eating clean never made things better , neither did cutting out lactose or gluten, i actually felt better eating a bit of crap, the apple cider vinegar made me a whole lot worse also but the digestive enzymes and pro biotics from bulk powders have helped somewhat, roll on Thursday !!!!!


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## swole troll

CarpeDiem76 said:


> @swole troll Hi dude, as i've said before i'm an acute sufferer of this, I can see where you're coming from, i'm prescribed Pantoprazole and Ranitidine but it doesn't feel like these actually help the cause at all so will question the doctor when I go to my hospital appointment on Thursday, I have to have a tube up my nose and into my stomache to measure the PH level over a 24hr period, really quite interested to see the result of this test as it's really grinding me down at times, eating clean never made things better , neither did cutting out lactose or gluten, i actually felt better eating a bit of crap, the apple cider vinegar made me a whole lot worse also but the digestive enzymes and pro biotics from bulk powders have helped somewhat, roll on Thursday !!!!!


 they actually have a method of testing PH levels now where you swallow a little sensor and they can monitor your levels over a 24hr period on a computer

like i said in the OP this will work for the vast majority of cases 
to summarize briefly

* clean eating (minimal to no processed foods) 
* kefir taken 250ml AM PM, failing that also include 250ml kefir with every meal
* apple cider vinegar 2 table spoons taken first thing in the morning 
* digestive enzymes with every meal
* stop taking PPIs and antacids 
* dont eat anything within 2 hours of going to bed 
* drop your body weight if you are excessively heavy

and remember your doctor is trying to relieve your symptoms which PPIs do however they do not address the problem and have long term side effects

i would roll the dice if your doctor offers nothing more than to stay on PPI's and try the above for a month and see how you get on

good luck


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## CarpeDiem76

swole troll said:


> they actually have a method of testing PH levels now where you swallow a little sensor and they can monitor your levels over a 24hr period on a computer
> 
> like i said in the OP this will work for the vast majority of cases
> to summarize briefly
> 
> * clean eating (minimal to no processed foods)
> * kefir taken 250ml AM PM, failing that also include 250ml kefir with every meal
> * apple cider vinegar 2 table spoons taken first thing in the morning
> * digestive enzymes with every meal
> * stop taking PPIs and antacids
> * dont eat anything within 2 hours of going to bed
> * drop your body weight if you are excessively heavy
> 
> and remember your doctor is trying to relieve your symptoms which PPIs do however they do not address the problem and have long term side effects
> 
> i would roll the dice if your doctor offers nothing more than to stay on PPI's and try the above for a month and see how you get on
> 
> good luck


 I have been on that medication since Christmas so i'm not keen to stay on them for much longer, especially as i'm still getting flare ups whilst on them, seems pointless, i'll be wanting more done this time around, will see what these PH results bring and go from there.


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## Brook877

Good read thanks op, I've been using omeprazole since 2016, and for a while I've been wondering if the real reason was under production due to the amount of bloat I get, it feels like a decent mean takes an age to "go down" my tiny little wife can eat twice as quick as me without struggling.

but yet I still suffer with over production apparently, I've started to question how much sense that makes..

Will start ACV and Kefir next week and see how things go.

Thanks


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## swole troll

Brook877 said:


> Good read thanks op, I've been using omeprazole since 2016, and for a while I've been wondering if the real reason was under production due to the amount of bloat I get, it feels like a decent mean takes an age to "go down" my tiny little wife can eat twice as quick as me without struggling.
> 
> but yet I still suffer with over production apparently, I've started to question how much sense that makes..
> 
> Will start ACV and Kefir next week and see how things go.
> 
> Thanks


 coming off PPIs and antacids is paramount in your recovery

remember you can always go back if it doesnt work so dont be afraid to ditch them and run the above protocol in its entirety

i know of several people this has worked for, myself included and i had terrible acid reflux, was literally all day long


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## nWo

Epic post. Betaine HCL with pepsin is cracking stuff also :thumbup1: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Betaine-HCl-Pepsin-Gentian-Bitters-120Capsules-Doctors-Best-Digestion/272312516817?epid=1318727837&hash=item3f671740d1:g:EpgAAOSwRgJXjeL8


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## swole troll

nWo said:


> Epic post. Betaine HCL with pepsin is cracking stuff also :thumbup1: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Betaine-HCl-Pepsin-Gentian-Bitters-120Capsules-Doctors-Best-Digestion/272312516817?epid=1318727837&hash=item3f671740d1:g:EpgAAOSwRgJXjeL8


 thanks man

stan efferding talks a lot about HCL and increasing unrefined salts with each meal for the gut benefits


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## 2487jamesm

swole troll said:


> *TLDR? jog on and enjoy your acid reflux, everything below is relevant to fixing your problem without medication that has nasty long term side effects*
> 
> So you spicy bastards
> 
> for the last 6 months I've suffered from acid reflux that was brought on by a tren cycle and then my weight and diet compounded it but I have now fixed it with no meds.
> 
> At first I went the 'obvious' route of taking rennie when it flared up thinking it'll pass, it didn't so i turned to a more long term option that 'fixes' the issue rather than masks it, a proton pump inhibitor or as some of you might know it as omeprazole
> 
> problem solved.. nope, the acid reflux went but recent data and study has linked PPI drugs to stomach cancer as well as bone fractures, B12 deficiency and gut infections
> 
> they tested 60,000 people and about 150 developed stomach cancer as a direct result of their omeprazole use so the odds are low but with the other long term sides being far more common I would say it's a good reason to try and not take PPI's particularly after the next point I'm going to make about your acid reflux..
> 
> in the VAST majority of case in those that don't have hiatal hernias* acid reflux is cause by an under production of stomach acid not an over production* so PPI's are actually exacerbating the problem
> 
> I first questioned the effectiveness of omeprazole when I was taking it and noticing some insane bloat due to the stomach struggling to digest the food
> 
> I then started reading up and watching videos which to my surprise showed that it is almost always an under production of stomach acid causing acid reflux
> 
> the reason being is the food hits your stomach and stomach acid is squirted over it but not enough to 'lower' the food in your stomach which means there is acid sitting on top of it close to the esophagial sphincter and splashing through.
> 
> *so how do you fix this? *
> 
> ** clean your diet up, processed foods and grains are a common cause of digestion issues*
> ** drop all antacids and PPI's *
> ** start drinking 250ml of kefir morning and night also when you are experiencing acid reflux (this tastes like s**t so neck it fast!) *
> ** start taking apple cider vinegar first thing in the morning, 1-2 tablespoonfuls *
> ** if you are eating a lot of food / are struggling to digest what you are eating then get yourself a digestive enzyme, the best I've used is lindens heal nutrition digestive enzymes daily *
> 
> *the above will cure the majority of cases but if not you may have to drop some body weight and stop eating 2 hours before you go to bed to decrease total intra abdominal pressure and allow your digestive system some down time, you can also increase the 250ml of kefir to having it with each meal, this is just until the problem is solved then you can slowly start reducing it again to a morning, night and flare up protocol*
> 
> trust me on this, I was apprehensive as I was experiencing acid reflux and the thought of actively trying to increase my stomach acid made me feel sick but I assure you in the vast majority of cases doing all of the above WILL work
> 
> there is one caveat, if you are running tren or orals then just stick with the PPI's for the duration of your cycle then run the above, you can try the above first but in that scenario you may struggle in which case use the PPI's until you come off as acid reflux can progress into GERD and then your life truly will be miserable and you are at risk of developing throat cancer.
> 
> videos nut-shelling some of the above:


 Hello mate, interesting read. I have acid reflux every day if I do not take llansaprasole prescribed by the doctor. I have been taking this for about 10 years daily. I am now 33.

I went to the doctors who put it down to me drinking alcohol. I stayed off alcohol for 2 months and it did not stop. I was sent to have a camera down my throat to check my stomach, and it come back ok. I have been taking the tablets ever since. I did go back to the doctors last year, and I was sent for another camera down. It come back ok again, but with slight inflamation of my duodenum. I was told to take the tablets for a further month and then stop and if the reflux still comes back to go back. I know it comes back as if I miss 1 day of taking the tablets its there. I do drink alcohol, not daily or anything, usually a night out every fortnight, but it will be a long day out, 15 pints easy. In your experience would this drinking alcohol cause this or is there an underlining problem? Im basically getting fed up of going to the doctors to be told to go for a camera and to find nothing. I do not want to be taking these tablets any longer, i have read they stop me absorbing vitamin B, So I take a Vitamin B tablet each morning along with a multivitamin, vitamin D3, Garlic supplement and glucosamine.

Cheers for any info mate.


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## Frost_uk

The Apple cider vinegar as greatly reduced the need for me to pop a ranitidine. Prior in was taking 1 or 2 q day either morning or evening seemed to be the worst, taken 1 ranitidine since taking the vinegar each morning.

Granted I'm a light sufferer of acid reflux it's helped me out a lot and move away for unnecessary drugs to aid.

Just out of interest does drinking too much water also cause/contribute to acid reflux? I naturally drink about 3 to 4 litres of water a day without really thinking about it, I read as you say it's usually caused by an under production of acid and if I'm diluting constantly with water is this affecting a reaction to produce more acid to combat that? If you know what I mean lol?


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## CarpeDiem76

2487jamesm said:


> Hello mate, interesting read. I have acid reflux every day if I do not take llansaprasole prescribed by the doctor. I have been taking this for about 10 years daily. I am now 33.
> 
> I went to the doctors who put it down to me drinking alcohol. I stayed off alcohol for 2 months and it did not stop. I was sent to have a camera down my throat to check my stomach, and it come back ok. I have been taking the tablets ever since. I did go back to the doctors last year, and I was sent for another camera down. It come back ok again, but with slight inflamation of my duodenum. I was told to take the tablets for a further month and then stop and if the reflux still comes back to go back. I know it comes back as if I miss 1 day of taking the tablets its there. I do drink alcohol, not daily or anything, usually a night out every fortnight, but it will be a long day out, 15 pints easy. In your experience would this drinking alcohol cause this or is there an underlining problem? Im basically getting fed up of going to the doctors to be told to go for a camera and to find nothing. I do not want to be taking these tablets any longer, i have read they stop me absorbing vitamin B, So I take a Vitamin B tablet each morning along with a multivitamin, vitamin D3, Garlic supplement and glucosamine.
> 
> Cheers for any info mate.


 Hi bud, you seem like you have it as bad as I do,they found nothing with the camera with me also but I still keep getting flare ups. I finally got another appointment yesterday to have my PH level tested over a 24hr period, they also do some swallow tests before this, I actually feel fine at the moment with no acid problems but my results came back at 70 which is high, normal range is 14, god knows what it must read when I have the actual flare up, now waiting to see what the consultant decides as nothing seems to be working medication wise, If i were you I would ask for this test too, at least you know whats what then.


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## 2487jamesm

CarpeDiem76 said:


> Hi bud, you seem like you have it as bad as I do,they found nothing with the camera with me also but I still keep getting flare ups. I finally got another appointment yesterday to have my PH level tested over a 24hr period, they also do some swallow tests before this, I actually feel fine at the moment with no acid problems but my results came back at 70 which is high, normal range is 14, god knows what it must read when I have the actual flare up, now waiting to see what the consultant decides as nothing seems to be working medication wise, If i were you I would ask for this test too, at least you know whats what then.
> 
> View attachment 163535


 Cheers for this mate i think i will ask about this when i go back to the doctors. Its strange as they never find anything and just try to fob me off. Im not having it, im on llansaprasole and dont want to b. Cheers for your info bud!


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## swole troll

Frost_uk said:


> The Apple cider vinegar as greatly reduced the need for me to pop a ranitidine. Prior in was taking 1 or 2 q day either morning or evening seemed to be the worst, taken 1 ranitidine since taking the vinegar each morning.
> 
> Granted I'm a light sufferer of acid reflux it's helped me out a lot and move away for unnecessary drugs to aid.
> 
> Just out of interest does drinking too much water also cause/contribute to acid reflux? I naturally drink about 3 to 4 litres of water a day without really thinking about it, I read as you say it's usually caused by an under production of acid and if I'm diluting constantly with water is this affecting a reaction to produce more acid to combat that? If you know what I mean lol?


 no that wont cause any issues

acid reflux seems the product of an unnatural environment like being super heavy, eating tons of processed shite, over feeding for prolonged periods of time / high calories

hence these are issues we want to address

drinking a lot of water is normal and your body is more than capable of dealing with it


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## CarpeDiem76

swole troll said:


> no that wont cause any issues
> 
> acid reflux seems the product of an unnatural environment like being super heavy, eating tons of processed shite, over feeding for prolonged periods of time / high calories
> 
> hence these are issues we want to address
> 
> drinking a lot of water is normal and your body is more than capable of dealing with it


 I can't even drink water or shakes when my Acid flares up, just doesn't want to stay down, especially after food, the water just can't find it's way down and I sick it up, very frustrating as you can't stay hydrated and pees always orange.

Been told to stay away from any kind of dairy, acids like vinegars and fruits, caffeine , greasy/fatty foods, that apple cider vinegar I tried last week just made it twice as worse, they found out now that I have a weak valve so I can see some sort of op happening.


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## CarpeDiem76

2487jamesm said:


> Cheers for this mate i think i will ask about this when i go back to the doctors. Its strange as they never find anything and just try to fob me off. Im not having it, im on llansaprasole and dont want to b. Cheers for your info bud!


 No probs, not only did they find acid is high but they could see i have a weak valve also, defo worth going.


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## swole troll

CarpeDiem76 said:


> I can't even drink water or shakes when my Acid flares up, just doesn't want to stay down, especially after food, the water just can't find it's way down and I sick it up, very frustrating as you can't stay hydrated and pees always orange.
> 
> Been told to stay away from any kind of dairy, acids like vinegars and fruits, caffeine , greasy/fatty foods, that apple cider vinegar I tried last week just made it twice as worse, they found out now that I have a weak valve so I can see some sort of op happening.


 yes so youve got an actual medical condition causing it

my thread was aimed at people that is induced from hormones, diet or body weight
in your case or those with hiatal hernias its just a case of what your doctor can do for you

appreciate the input though and all the best with your op, that's a shitty bit of luck, i absolutely hate! acid reflux
hopefully they can sort you out


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## CarpeDiem76

swole troll said:


> yes so youve got an actual medical condition causing it
> 
> my thread was aimed at people that is induced from hormones, diet or body weight
> in your case or those with hiatal hernias its just a case of what your doctor can do for you
> 
> appreciate the input though and all the best with your op, that's a shitty bit of luck, i absolutely hate! acid reflux
> hopefully they can sort you out


 Thanks mate, I do wonder whether it was caused or worsened by taking gear or eating too much, coincidence that it all happened just after a bulk eating anything and everything, i do miss those Ben n Jerrys though :lol:


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## Frank bull

If you get a bout of acid reflux try 2 tea spoons of baking soda in a glass of water , it will sort it , I've had reflux for years I find this help me better than the omerprozel every time


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## Vinny

Thanks @swole troll just come across this.

I've been on 15mg lansoprazole daily for 2-3 years, and has to go up to 30mg when I'm eating 3500+ kcals.

Will start with 2 tablespoons of the ACV as it was in aldi and seems cheap to try out. Will like our fo the kefir when I next go tesco.

Cutting atm but dreading bulking whenthe acid gets worse, I'm sure the lansoprazole was messing with my digestion.


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## Vinny

@swole troll Also, whats your opinions on the apple cider vinegar capules you can buy?

I've seen Lindens do some and I'm a fine of their products and amazon have 1000mg ACV capsules, 180 capsules for like £12-18.


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## swole troll

Vinny said:


> Thanks @swole troll just come across this.
> 
> I've been on 15mg lansoprazole daily for 2-3 years, and has to go up to 30mg when I'm eating 3500+ kcals.
> 
> Will start with 2 tablespoons of the ACV as it was in aldi and seems cheap to try out. Will like our fo the kefir when I next go tesco.
> 
> Cutting atm but dreading bulking whenthe acid gets worse, I'm sure the lansoprazole was messing with my digestion.


 the kefir is MVP so be sure to include that first AM PM at 250ml each time and then if acid reflux persists up to 250ml with every meal

ACV is more of a long term maintenance and has a load of other benefits but ideally to get things under control, particularly after long term suppression of stomach acid with proton pump inhibitors run the entirety of the OP.



Vinny said:


> @swole troll Also, whats your opinions on the apple cider vinegar capules you can buy?
> 
> I've seen Lindens do some and I'm a fine of their products and amazon have 1000mg ACV capsules, 180 capsules for like £12-18.


 ive ran them before and couldnt say for sure if there was much difference

the main thing is that it contains 'mother' as this is where the bulk of the acetic acid and digestive aid comes from


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## Vinny

swole troll said:


> ive ran them before and couldnt say for sure if there was much difference
> 
> the main thing is that it contains 'mother' as this is where the bulk of the acetic acid and digestive aid comes from


 Ahhh not seen any capsules with mother sadly


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## swole troll

Vinny said:


> Ahhh not seen any capsules with mother sadly


 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-Cider-Vinegar-Tablets-500mg/dp/B07F6R6FLJ/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1546805881&sr=8-1&keywords=Apple+Cider+Vinegar+Tablets+500mg+Pills+-+UK+Made+GMP+Quality+Mother+Capsules


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## Vinny

swole troll said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-Cider-Vinegar-Tablets-500mg/dp/B07F6R6FLJ/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1546805881&sr=8-1&keywords=Apple+Cider+Vinegar+Tablets+500mg+Pills+-+UK+Made+GMP+Quality+Mother+Capsules


 May give them a try once the ACV i have is used up. Going to get the kefir tomorrow


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## Wheyman

kefir tastes great


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## Snorbitz1uk

I have been on omeprazole for 20 years every day, I dont have a choice as my hiatal hernia is so bad there is nothing there to stop the acid coming out.


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## Robbie

It's worth noting for anyone trying to get off of PPI meds (who doesn't use them for a medical condition like the hernia above), that if you stop taking them, you will get rebound reflux. So there's going to be a period of time where it gets worse not better.


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## swole troll

Snorbitz1uk said:


> I have been on omeprazole for 20 years every day, I dont have a choice as my hiatal hernia is so bad there is nothing there to stop the acid coming out.


 Yes there will be exceptions like you but by and large people are using them unnecessarily / for the wrong reasons


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## Snorbitz1uk

swole troll said:


> Yes there will be exceptions like you but by and large people are using them unnecessarily / for the wrong reasons


 I agree my condition is actually fairly rare, When i was diagnosed with it at 19 i was one of the youngest cases the specialist had seen.


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## Vinny

@swole troll any tips for making the kefir drinkable?

I took a big gulp last night and tonight and both times made me want to throw up!


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## swole troll

Vinny said:


> @swole troll any tips for making the kefir drinkable?
> 
> I took a big gulp last night and tonight and both times made me want to throw up!


 This is what I did

* get amped up for it

* neck it fast as possible without breathing through nose

* soon as you've necked it take your next 10 or so breaths through your mouth until the flavour clears a bit

Some actually like this stuff believe it or not

I think it's the devil's drink but it's bloody effective for gut health

I'd go as far as to say thee most effective thing you can consume for overall gut health, acid reflux, digestion ect


----------



## TURBS

Vinny said:


> @swole troll any tips for making the kefir drinkable?
> 
> I took a big gulp last night and tonight and both times made me want to throw up!


 If you don't mind the extra sugar, they do flavoured kefir as well... good range in Morrisons


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## Vinny

swole troll said:


> This is what I did
> 
> * get amped up for it
> 
> * neck it fast as possible without breathing through nose
> 
> * soon as you've necked it take your next 10 or so breaths through your mouth until the flavour clears a bit
> 
> Some actually like this stuff believe it or not
> 
> I think it's the devil's drink but it's bloody effective for gut health
> 
> I'd go as far as to say thee most effective thing you can consume for overall gut health, acid reflux, digestion ect


 Ahhh the brave it and man up approve haha.



TERBO said:


> If you don't mind the extra sugar, they do flavoured kefir as well... good range in Morrisons


 On my second gulp tonight i tried adding coco powder to it but the sour taste completely over powered it lol.


----------



## NoGutsNoGloryy

na its deffo over production because if you pop pills for stomach acids lasoprazole omeprazole etc... you wont get heartburn this is just some dumb geezers attempt at trying to be clever don't read up on this crap OP


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## Vinny

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> na its deffo over production because if you pop pills for stomach acids lasoprazole omeprazole etc... you wont get heartburn this is just some dumb geezers attempt at trying to be clever don't read up on this crap OP


 I would say yes you get over production, but that's because your body is trying to overcompensate as your stomach acid can not digest the food.

Lasoprazole and omeprazole will stop the over production but when you're consuming large amounts of food your body struggles even more to digest the food, and then your stomach gets backed up, with the acid sitting on top, and then leaks out the gut.

Normally I can't go 2 days without being on my Lasoprazole, but I've not taken any for a week now, I can't stomach to Kefir but I have been taking 1/2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (in the afternoon, as I forget in the morning) and my Acid reflex has been bearable.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy

Vinny said:


> I would say yes you get over production, but that's because your body is trying to overcompensate as your stomach acid can not digest the food.
> 
> Lasoprazole and omeprazole will stop the over production but when you're consuming large amounts of food your body struggles even more to digest the food, and then your stomach gets backed up, with the acid sitting on top, and then leaks out the gut.
> 
> Normally I can't go 2 days without being on my Lasoprazole, but I've not taken any for a week now, I can't stomach to Kefir but I have been taking 1/2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (in the afternoon, as I forget in the morning) and my Acid reflex has been bearable.


 I never get it from eating large amounts I eat two meals a day so they're quite big it's the opposite for me, I eat a snack and it'll be like I could breathe fire. I think the main reasons for it is when people eat to often as it's usually always fat obese people or bodybuilders that complain about it lol and bad types of carbs give it me everytime


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## Wheyman

Vinny said:


> @swole troll any tips for making the kefir drinkable?
> 
> I took a big gulp last night and tonight and both times made me want to throw up!


 its bloody lovely its just like a nice fizzy yogurt


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## swole troll

NoGutsNoGloryy said:


> na its deffo over production because if you pop pills for stomach acids lasoprazole omeprazole etc... you wont get heartburn this is just some dumb geezers attempt at trying to be clever don't read up on this crap OP


 I explained this in the OP which id advise you read through given the long term negative effects of proton pump inhibitors

read @Vinny reply again, he's actually had success with increasing his stomach acid with ACV and as a result stopped taking his lasoprazole for a week at the time of his post


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## darren.1987

@Vinny if you can't stomach the taste of natural kefir (I hate it also) go to a local Polish shop if you have one, they do loads of different flavours and it's a lot cheaper than at Tesco or morrisons.

they have ones with fruit inside which are decent


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## Vinny

swole troll said:


> I explained this in the OP which id advise you read through given the long term negative effects of proton pump inhibitors
> 
> read @Vinny reply again, he's actually had success with increasing his stomach acid with ACV and as a result stopped taking his lasoprazole for a week at the time of his post


 Been a month now, and I think it's only been 2-3 times I've needed a glass of milk at night to take the edge off the reflux.

I think I've come to that I can't handle Deca/NPP, my digestion just goes to s**t. I had 4 pins of E-NPP and EQ but stopped it now, and going to stay just Test and EQ and see if my digestion improves.

Don't know if it's the same with Tren as not run it properly, but if my digestion gets better as the NPP clears, I might try running Tren E at 200mg a week, see if I get the same reaction or not.


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## David81

Water or milk kefir?



swole troll said:


> start drinking 250ml of kefir morning and night also when you are experiencing acid reflux (this tastes like s**t so neck it fast!)


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## swole troll

David81 said:


> Water or milk kefir?


 milk

you can purchase these brands in most big tesco stores, either one will suffice


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## PhilJ56

@swole troll thanks for this thread. I usually suffer with bad acid reflux but recently while bulking it's become pretty bad to a point where I'm struggling to get food down comfortably. I'm going to try kefir to see if it helps.


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## Djibril

I never had acid reflux and as soon as starting winnie yesterday i got it quite strong. Took kefir, todays dose of winnie i took with food.

On the weekend my digestion was no so spot on because i ate something i hadnt for a long time so i felt fairly heavy, maybe that could have something to do.

@swole trollDid you find splitting orals dose to help with the acid reflux?


----------



## swole troll

Djibril said:


> I never had acid reflux and as soon as starting winnie yesterday i got it quite strong. Took kefir, todays dose of winnie i took with food.
> 
> On the weekend my digestion was no so spot on because i ate something i hadnt for a long time so i felt fairly heavy, maybe that could have something to do.
> 
> @swole trollDid you find splitting orals dose to help with the acid reflux?


 no i did not

honestly i listed everything ITT on what i found to be effective

my main take home is once everything ITT has been applied and exhausted to no avail (not come across this yet in those whose acid reflux was AAS related) than id suggest a PPI and seeking medical help if it persists post cycle


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## Djibril

swole troll said:


> no i did not
> 
> honestly i listed everything ITT on what i found to be effective
> 
> my main take home is once everything ITT has been applied and exhausted to no avail (not come across this yet in those whose acid reflux was AAS related) than id suggest a PPI and seeking medical help if it persists post cycle


 Thanks mate, I dont think ill have that issue post cycle, today im good so ill keep on the Kefir, add some ACV and at some point some more probiotics on pill form. That should do it


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## swole troll

Djibril said:


> Thanks mate, I dont think ill have that issue post cycle, today im good so ill keep on the Kefir, add some ACV and at some point some more probiotics on pill form. That should do it


 Kefir is by far the MVP

probably the single best thing you can consume in regard to overall gut health


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## Djibril

swole troll said:


> Kefir is by far the MVP
> 
> probably the single best thing you can consume in regard to overall gut health


 There is also real kefir im trying to get . You know the real grains that you put milk and make your own kefir. thats supposed to be even better then the one sold in the super markets.

But generally kefir improves your digestion a lot, i will take it wether taking orals or not


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## damagedgoods

I started to get Acid reflux when I was 11 ears old. - by the time I was 20 it was full on GERD. I've lost count of the number of times I've had endoscopies and other investigations. I had a 'sliding hiatus hernia' and have had 3 ulcers over the years. I ended up having an opp called nissen fundoplication - which has a pretty terrible success record, however for me it stopped me having acid reflux over night. It also stopped me from being able to vomit and for several months made it very difficult to eat.

If I knew then what I know now I woudl advise my younger self to do a few things differently - 1. start taking digestive enzymes & HCL. 2. use ACV. 3. change diet approach - and go full Carnivore


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## Vinny

Giving it another go coming off 15mg Lanzoprazole,Nearly a week since last took any lazoprazole.

Been using the ACV with mother from Aldi, any thoughts on these as an alternative? - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-Cider-Vinegar-Capsules-1000mg/dp/B07QFYN8VV/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Failed hard on using any kefir last time, couldn't stomach the taste at all! But... Biotiful have recently got a strawberry version and that's actually not too bad! Only bad thing is not many local stores sell it.

Still getting a burning feeling when I burp, a small sip of milk seems to put it off, trying not to use any type of tums etc, hopefully just need to use the ACV and Kefir for a longer period for it to go.


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## swole troll

Vinny said:


> Giving it another go coming off 15mg Lanzoprazole,Nearly a week since last took any lazoprazole.
> 
> Been using the ACV with mother from Aldi, any thoughts on these as an alternative? - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-Cider-Vinegar-Capsules-1000mg/dp/B07QFYN8VV/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> Failed hard on using any kefir last time, couldn't stomach the taste at all! But... Biotiful have recently got a strawberry version and that's actually not too bad! Only bad thing is not many local stores sell it.
> 
> Still getting a burning feeling when I burp, a small sip of milk seems to put it off, trying not to use any type of tums etc, hopefully just need to use the ACV and Kefir for a longer period for it to go.


 Kefir is by far the most effective healthy treatment

I mean I don't know what you want to hear but it's just a case of man up and get it down you

I've worked jobs with polish guys that'll have it out of the fridge all day getting warm and leisurely swig it

If you really find it that bad just pinch your nose and neck it

Same goes for ACV, the pills are crap, that acidic rawness is what you're after, acv with mother big glug on an empty stomach, I reccomend first thing upon waking before brushing your teeth then you can mint your mouth up afterward to rid the taste.

Honestly mate my entire protocol is largely bolstered by the kefir

I've put so many people onto it that have digestive and reflux issues from a whole host of reasons on here and irl to great success

Step 1: 250ml am

Step 2: 250ml am and pm

Step 3: 250ml with each meal

Step 4: 250ml am, pm and each meal

80% of people are sorted by step 1

15% step 2

5% step 3

So no one I've advised has ever needed to push it beyond 1 litre kefir per day and even those people were able to scale it back once dropping orals or addressing the other issues in their diet that were causing acid reflux

Me personally I've only ever gone as far as about 750ml daily by way of 250ml am and pm and once again middayish

This was whilst weighing over 300lb, eating 8000kcal by any means necessary and running high doses of trenbolone


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## Vinny

swole troll said:


> Kefir is by far the most effective healthy treatment
> 
> I mean I don't know what you want to hear but it's just a case of man up and get it down you
> 
> I've worked jobs with polish guys that'll have it out of the fridge all day getting warm and leisurely swig it
> 
> If you really find it that bad just pinch your nose and neck it
> 
> Same goes for ACV, the pills are crap, that acidic rawness is what you're after, acv with mother big glug on an empty stomach, I reccomend first thing upon waking before brushing your teeth then you can mint your mouth up afterward to rid the taste.
> 
> Honestly mate my entire protocol is largely bolstered by the kefir
> 
> I've put so many people onto it that have digestive and reflux issues from a whole host of reasons on here and irl to great success
> 
> Step 1: 250ml am
> 
> Step 2: 250ml am and pm
> 
> Step 3: 250ml with each meal
> 
> Step 4: 250ml am, pm and each meal
> 
> 80% of people are sorted by step 1
> 
> 15% step 2
> 
> 5% step 3
> 
> So no one I've advised has ever needed to push it beyond 1 litre kefir per day and even those people were able to scale it back once dropping orals or addressing the other issues in their diet that were causing acid reflux
> 
> Me personally I've only ever gone as far as about 750ml daily by way of 250ml am and pm and once again middayish
> 
> This was whilst weighing over 300lb, eating 8000kcal by any means necessary and running high doses of trenbolone


 Will give it a go a mate. No problem with the necking the ACV, just thought the tablets would be more convenient but if they're crap won't bother.

Money very tight at the moment but will get 250mg down each morning and see how it goes, Will do the 2x 250mg after I've been paid if nothing improves .

Sitting at 190lb at the moment and cutting on around 2000kcal, 150mg Test E and 0.75ml of Rohm Thermo Lipid I had left over from some years ago.


----------



## swole troll

Vinny said:


> Will give it a go a mate. No problem with the necking the ACV, just thought the tablets would be more convenient but if they're crap won't bother.
> 
> Money very tight at the moment but will get 250mg down each morning and see how it goes, Will do the 2x 250mg after I've been paid if nothing improves .
> 
> Sitting at 190lb at the moment and cutting on around 2000kcal, 150mg Test E and 0.75ml of Rohm Thermo Lipid I had left over from some years ago.


 Try to get the one I linked

The smaller Tescos do a really steep one in a minimalist green and white bottle

The one I linked is sold in larger Tesco stores and polish shops, comes in a white and green bottle with potatoes and dill? on the front, it's a polish dish that people often drink kefir with I'm told

Well that one is about £1.50 for 1 litre, the other one is 250ml for the same price


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## hmgs

swole troll said:


> The one I linked is sold in larger Tesco stores and polish shops, comes in a white and green bottle with potatoes and dill? on the front, it's a polish dish that people often drink kefir with I'm told


 Up t'North it's ower way round! Tesco express Scarborough 'ave it, Tesco extra York don't!

I could drink that till it comes out me ear 'oles 

Bio-tiful is nice; but at for times the price - nah.


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## swole troll

hmgs said:


> Bio-tiful


 That's the one

The cider and black of the kefir world


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## Vinny

Getting on alright with the strawberry Kefir :thumb

Still burping acid from time to time but It's 10 days last time having lanzoprazole.

Planning to buy the cheaper Kefir and try adding strawberry flavoring to it instead!


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## swole troll

Vinny said:


> Getting on alright with the strawberry Kefir :thumb
> 
> Still burping acid from time to time but It's 10 days last time having lanzoprazole.
> 
> Planning to buy the cheaper Kefir and try adding strawberry flavoring to it instead!


 yeah the kid's one :whistling: 
hope you're drinking it with a silly straw.

no only winding you up mate, maybe grab some nesquick powder or something?

glad its working, doing you a hell of a lot of good A ) getting off PPIs and B ) just overall the best thing you can consume for your gut flora, digestion ect


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## Vinny

swole troll said:


> yeah the kid's one :whistling:
> hope you're drinking it with a silly straw.
> 
> no only winding you up mate, maybe grab some nesquick powder or something?
> 
> glad its working, doing you a hell of a lot of good A ) getting off PPIs and B ) just overall the best thing you can consume for your gut flora, digestion ect


 Could try nesquick, nice and cheap.

Dropping some bodyfat slowly atm but plan is to get health and digestion all on point, and then do a Test + EQ cycle. I think my last cycles haven't been that great due to my digestion being poor even with digestive enzymes.

Health Supps at the moment;-

AM;-
- 600mg Curcumin
- 4,000ui D3
- 250mcg K2
- 250mg Kefir
- 2 Table spoon ACV
- 200mg TUCDA

Pre bed;-
- 250mg Kefir
- 10mg Psyllium Husk (followed by 250ml water)

(Low HDL)
- 1000mg Omega 3
- 500mg Niacina

(For Low Iron and Folate)
- 5mg Folate Acid
- 3x 200mg Ferrous Sulphate


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## swole troll

Vinny said:


> Health Supps at the moment;-
> 
> AM;-
> - 600mg Curcumin
> - 4,000ui D3
> - 250mcg K2
> - 250mg Kefir
> - 2 Table spoon ACV
> - 200mg TUCDA
> 
> Pre bed;-
> - 250mg Kefir
> - 10mg Psyllium Husk (followed by 250ml water)
> 
> (Low HDL)
> - 1000mg Omega 3
> - 500mg Niacina
> 
> (For Low Iron and Folate)
> - 5mg Folate Acid
> - 3x 200mg Ferrous Sulphate


 Excellent supp list

Add in citrus bergamot at 500mg from premium raws for in between cycles to really tackle the lipid recovery side of things and that's more or less my supp stack

Personally I'll run niacin year round since it's dirt cheap but given the price of cit bergamot I just stick to inbetween blasts since it's only dabbing a knife wound with a napkin on cycle anyway so I'd rather save the cash


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## Quackerz

@swole troll I'm breaking my ***** vegan diet to give this a shot to hopefully come off the omeprazole. It's a good read. 

I'll let you know how I get on.


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## albatross

@swole troll Fascinating read. I have been on omeprazole for about 5 years now, twice a week after a family pizza night or curry.

I have tried ACV and Kefir and psyllium husk but never together and never consistently so I might need to give this a proper go for a few weeks.


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## Vinny

@swole troll

Hi pal, other than Kefir, ACV and Psyllium husk.

Do you have any more tips on digestion?

The Kefir alone sorts my Acid Reflux, When I start to eat to gain weight around mid feb, I want to maximums my digest as much as I can, so will start the ACV and Husk. I've read people taking probiotics on top of having Kefir, but nothing in detail.


----------



## swole troll

Vinny said:


> @swole troll
> 
> Hi pal, other than Kefir, ACV and Psyllium husk.
> 
> Do you have any more tips on digestion?
> 
> The Kefir alone sorts my Acid Reflux, When I start to eat to gain weight around mid feb, I want to maximums my digest as much as I can, so will start the ACV and Husk. I've read people taking probiotics on top of having Kefir, but nothing in detail.


 kefir is a probiotic.

I don't understand the issue, didn't you say kefir is doing the job?

if it's merely digestive assistance then take a linden's digestive enzyme with your larger meals


----------



## Vinny

swole troll said:


> kefir is a probiotic.
> 
> I don't understand the issue, didn't you say kefir is doing the job?
> 
> if it's merely digestive assistance then take a linden's digestive enzyme with your larger meals


 It might just be my mistake, Was listening to a podcast and Luke Sandeo mentioned He was using probiotics, Kefir and Psy husk with digestive enzymes. I could just be misunderstanding he's point, he's answers can be vague

Slightly different question, do you have a certain routine you do am?

For Example I'm thinking of waking up, taking the ACV, take my pump PWO, go gym, and then have breakfast followed by the Kefir.


----------



## swole troll

Vinny said:


> It might just be my mistake, Was listening to a podcast and Luke Sandeo mentioned He was using probiotics, Kefir and Psy husk with digestive enzymes. I could just be misunderstanding he's point, he's answers can be vague
> 
> Slightly different question, do you have a certain routine you do am?
> 
> For Example I'm thinking of waking up, taking the ACV, take my pump PWO, go gym, and then have breakfast followed by the Kefir.


 person dependent mate

largely I can digest bricks and mortar it was just when i was north of about 280lb and the sheer number of calories required to go from there to 317lb made my digestion appalling and I utilized digestive aids as needed which ended up being Kefir 250ml AM and PM with an added serving during flare ups of acid reflux and a lindens digestive enzymes with 2-3 meals daily

I switched ACV out for kefir when ACV was no longer controlling reflux, never ran the two concurrently


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## JohnnySack

I have absolutely no scientific evidence for this (please don't attack me @simonboyle) but I would like to add an observation. I have been experiencing horrendous heartburn on tren to the point where any meal would just end up with terrible lasting pain and making exercises like hack squat or deadlift nigh on impossible. Small meals and not moving seemed to help but was not very practical. I tried kefir as suggested but with not much impact. Oddly - and this may just have been co-incidental - actimel seems to have had some positive effect.

But here's the truth of the matter - it seems that after a few months (yeah, yeah, I know) it just stopped. Like my body adjusted to it. Subsequently raising the dose brought it back - but not as bad and not for long. Adjustment took just days. I started at 200 tren enan (hardly a big dose by any standards) and am now at 300 with no heartburn at all. Big meals seem fine, so does squatting and deadlifting (although I make sure it's been several hours from any food when doing these) and I still take the actimel morning and evening just cause I quite like it now.

Make of that what you will but it was bloody uncomfortable (quite frankly painful at times) and now it's just gone so I did want to at least report it incase it helps anyone. Not that I'm suggesting you just stay on cycle merely that if you choose to then it may well fix itself.


----------



## simonboyle

JohnnySack said:


> I have absolutely no scientific evidence for this (please don't attack me @simonboyle) but I would like to add an observation. I have been experiencing horrendous heartburn on tren to the point where any meal would just end up with terrible lasting pain and making exercises like hack squat or deadlift nigh on impossible. Small meals and not moving seemed to help but was not very practical. I tried kefir as suggested but with not much impact. Oddly - and this may just have been co-incidental - actimel seems to have had some positive effect.
> 
> But here's the truth of the matter - it seems that after a few months (yeah, yeah, I know) it just stopped. Like my body adjusted to it. Subsequently raising the dose brought it back - but not as bad and not for long. Adjustment took just days. I started at 200 tren enan (hardly a big dose by any standards) and am now at 300 with no heartburn at all. Big meals seem fine, so does squatting and deadlifting (although I make sure it's been several hours from any food when doing these) and I still take the actimel morning and evening just cause I quite like it now.
> 
> Make of that what you will but it was bloody uncomfortable (quite frankly painful at times) and now it's just gone so I did want to at least report it incase it helps anyone. Not that I'm suggesting you just stay on cycle merely that if you choose to then it may well fix itself.


 If you're on tren then you're likely to get acid reflux.

Comes with the territory


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## Reece94

Great thread some useful information.

My biggest problem is training, does anyone else get the urge to throw up as soon as any kind of set gets difficult?

im pretty sure mine is purely from the tren, I'm lowering the dose and have implicated some of the methods stated in this thread.

but I haven't read much of people suffering during training? Is this common? If you have had that issue how have you gone around it?

other than eliminating caffeine & eating food further away before hand.


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## ajak92

Thanks a lot for the guide. I've been suffering with this issue for a while but its the silent type or LPR so it doesn't really cause a lot of discomfort but there is always mucus present in my throat and my chest. I cannot take a deep breathe sometimes accompanied with a tightness of the chest. I sometimes wake up in the morning with a lot of wind and sometimes bad stomach cramps. Also sometimes I have diarrhoea after eating something. I think its definitely a gut issue. I will start consuming Kefir as recommended.


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## ajak92

The kefir seems to really thicken the mucus in my throat and I can feel some heartburn.

Do these symptoms eventually go away overtime after continuously consuming kefir?


----------

