# Sleep The Forgotten Bodybuilder



## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

When people talk about wanting to put on muscle, you always read that same sort of questions, how much training, how much protein, how much creatine but how about how much sleep?

During sleep you release hormones, which are strongly anabolic, Leutinising Hormone (LH), Growth Hormone (GH) and Testosterone (T), this is why you do all your healing during sleep and your immunity to infection increases.

Importantly Testosterone levels are increased during sleep, whether it is night sleep OR day sleep, in one study here by as much as 10nmol/litre. The implication of this is that those of you who have the luxury of afternoon naps may be naturally increasing your test! perhaps we all should do it??

The other great bodybuilding hormone is Growth Hormone (GH). GH levels increase at night, demonstrated here but due to negative feedback, levels may only go so high and once reached will cause the body to stop releasing further GH. This means that any injection of GH should possibly be done well before bedtime to prevent suppression of natural GH. A study shows this here. It is also the quality of sleep that is important, as GH increases are shown particularly before and during stage 3&4 sleep.

Interestingly Melatonin may NOT be the best way to get a natural sleep, in an article by the National Sleep Foundation here you can find out all you ever wanted to know about this hormone before you decide to take it.

Therefore the three things you need to consider before bedtime are:

*Quantity of Sleep (from sleep foundation)*

Adults require 7-9 hours of uninterupted sleep per night.

*Quality of Sleep (from sleep foundation)*


Avoid caffeine (coffee, tea, soft drinks, chocolate) and nicotine (cigarettes, tobacco products) close to bedtime.

Avoid alcohol as it can lead to disrupted sleep.

Exercise regularly, but complete your workout at least 3 hours before bedtime.

Establish a regular relaxing, not alerting, bedtime routine (e.g. taking a bath or relaxing in a hot tub).

Create a sleep-conducive environment that is dark, quiet and preferably cool and comfortable.

I would also add to the above that you don't eat a heavy meal too close to bedtime.

*Hormone Release During Sleep*


Do not take Hormone replacements/ prohormones too close to bedtime or you will effect a Negative Feedback response and shutdown your own hormones, GH, LH,T.

Have a protein rich meal (Glutamine or BCAA) close to bedtime, no simple carbs, to advocate anabolism but don't go OTT, you have a large Protein pool to draw on in the blood already from meals 6,7 &8.

Do you really need Melatonin? Do your research.

In conclusion: Successful Bodybuilding= Effective training + Quality Diet + Sensible Supplementation + A Good Nights Kip!

SLEEPTIPS

HTH

SD


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## Toregar (Apr 5, 2006)

I totally agree with sleep being a key component in building your body. However, I've read that sleeping 6 hours + 2 hour nap is just as effective as sleeping 8 straight. It's what I do, and I actually feel better if I do it that way. 8 straight hours feels good, but the nap just makes me feel loads better.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Toregar said:


> I totally agree with sleep being a key component in building your body. However, I've read that sleeping 6 hours + 2 hour nap is just as effective as sleeping 8 straight. It's what I do, and I actually feel better if I do it that way. 8 straight hours feels good, but the nap just makes me feel loads better.


Hi Toregar,

Yes 6+2 hours of sleep is very effective, according to my research it doesn't matter whether you sleep day or night, its the quality that counts. The only downside I could see to you doing this is that you dont release the GH until you reach stage 3-4 sleep, this takes a while, so breaking your sleep up into pieces i.e 6+2 might result in less of the quality stage 3 &4 sleep. I shouldn't think by much though as long as you can sleep deeply almost straight away, which if you can I am envious

I wonder if more sleep is better? as your GH,LH & T are all elevated, perhaps if you slept all day and night only waking to train or eat, you would look like Ronnie Coleman in a few months? or if there is a point of diminishing returns?

SD


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i do think everyone is so diet obsessed these days that sleep is a forgotten factor-

incedentally i worked nites for 10 years and slept like the dead everynite 8-10 hours every time-

i felt like a sack of crap most of the time so i gotta say it does matter whether you sleep during the day or nite(for me)


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## Toregar (Apr 5, 2006)

Cheers SD

I'll have to keep in mind the GH Factor of my sleep. Might just have to switch to 8 hours straight


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

defo you need the sleep..

however when people start gettin up at 11:30 a m(ASH!!!) u miss a good 1000 calories by then so u wont grow IMO


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

LMAO! single me out why dont u! man its the weekend, ill like to stay up late and sleep in! damn rasklat!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

> ill like to stay up late and sleep in!


me too-

i got a solid 9 hours last nite and dragged my carcass outta bed at 12 :lift:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, I do feel it matters what time you sleep.

Melatonin is released when the sun is not present.

I see many guys on my job that work graveyard shift. Most of them look like crap after a few years of working while others are sleeping.

They all look like that.

I do love to sleep and try to get 8 hours but that alcohol thing tosses a stick in my spokes of my wheels:eek:


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## Broady (Aug 10, 2007)

I've always wondered where the phrase POWER NAP came from!!


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Well I work nights and have been doing silly hours lately.....

I am lucky if I get 6 hiours straight sleep, although I do pull over in the lorry for naps if the need arrises....

Thing is, if I got in the sleep I'm supposed to, I wouldn't be able to train at all.....

I worked 67 hour slast week mon-fri, they wantedme to work saturday too, but no fcukin way.....

My lorry is like my little office tbh, and most my time is spent on the phone.... 

Hands free I might add.... :thumb:


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## BabyYoYo (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm lucky then.. before long I'll be huuuuuuuge 'cause I sleep lots and lots!!! :bounce:


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

BabyYoYo said:


> I'm lucky then.. before long I'll be huuuuuuuge 'cause I sleep lots and lots!!! :bounce:


 In fact in your avatar you look like your gonna nod off actually 

SD


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## MXMAD (Oct 11, 2007)

I sometimes get 10 hours a night :lol:

I know your muscle grow / recover when sleeping but how come you get DOMS after you have been asleep?


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## BabyYoYo (Mar 7, 2008)

SportDr said:


> In fact in your avatar you look like your gonna nod off actually
> 
> SD


How very observant of you! You're right though!

It was taken at Marrakech train station - by the time the picture was taken we had been waiting for the train at the station for 7 hours to only endure an 8 hour journey... I was rather tired!!! I tried to sleep on the train but people kept coming in and trying to sit on me!

Haha

Sorry for hijack!


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

MXMAD said:


> I sometimes get 10 hours a night :lol:
> 
> I know your muscle grow / recover when sleeping but how come you get DOMS after you have been asleep?


YOur body has repaired micro trauma in your muscle, for a while these 'healed' areas are less flexible than the surrounding muscle causing pain, there is also some localised inflamation.



BabyYoYo said:


> How very observant of you! You're right though!
> 
> It was taken at Marrakech train station - by the time the picture was taken we had been waiting for the train at the station for 7 hours to only endure an 8 hour journey... I was rather tired!!! I tried to sleep on the train but people kept coming in and trying to sit on me!
> 
> ...


Np hun, some people look so cute when they are sleepy, like one of the seven dwarfs, night night dozy :laugh: x


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Since ive been out of work, I have taken to having afternoon naps... So nice I can't begin to explain.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

megatron said:


> Since ive been out of work, I have taken to having afternoon naps... So nice I can't begin to explain.


I would sooo love to afternoon nap, always feel sleepy around 2-3pm!!! is it because I am 35??

SD


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## BabyYoYo (Mar 7, 2008)

SportDr said:


> I would sooo love to afternoon nap, always feel sleepy around 2-3pm!!! is it because I am 35??
> 
> SD


Maybe... you old man!!!

:thumb:


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Thats the reason! I work in a hospital, the heating is always on maximum for the oldy folk, so my body thinks I am in a tropical climate and says nap time! :thumb:

Cheeky yo yo thats quits.....for now! :laugh:

SD


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

SportDr said:


> I would sooo love to afternoon nap, always feel sleepy around 2-3pm!!! is it because I am 35??
> 
> SD


Damn, thats old. :lol:

They did a study on naps, and compared them to people that took some cafeene.

The people that took a 2 hour nap (seems like a long nap to me), and gave the other group 2 cups of coffee.

The coffee people did feel more aleart, but the nap people out performed in physical, and mental performance.

Didnt Winston Churchill take naps every day?


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## Dezmyster (Nov 28, 2008)

Iv not slept right through the night for 15 years since my kids were born. A power nap in the afternoon works a treet.


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## Zara-Leoni (Mar 12, 2007)

Robsta said:


> Well I work nights and have been doing silly hours lately.....
> 
> I am lucky if I get 6 hiours straight sleep, although I do pull over in the lorry for naps if the need arrises....
> 
> ...


Should think so too....!



SportDr said:


> I would sooo love to afternoon nap, always feel sleepy around 2-3pm!!! is it because I am 35??
> 
> SD





BabyYoYo said:


> Maybe... you old man!!!
> 
> :thumb:





hackskii said:


> Damn, thats old. :lol:


Feckers...... I'm 35!!! You're only as old as the person you feel..... :laugh:

(dammit)


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

doc i slept 10 hours all of this week compared to my 9 hours, why did this 1 extra hour make me feel crap, i woke up with headaches, or is it the clen?


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

thats a brilliant thread sportsdr...love this topic and some of the journals you found to reference...i've repped you!!!

sleep,is one of the major requirements of everyday life!!!

and if your bodybuilding,is of paramount importance...promotes all of your already mentioned benefits and probably much more for the systems in the body,not just muscle,soft tissue repair...sleep next to nutrition and stimulation from the gym are the only big 3 (next to genetics)to getting it right,unless you are in the chemical field,but even then its still genetics,then the big 3!!!!

i know in this speeded up,western no sleeping society,stressed too much work state,we could all benefit from the extra sleep...nice thread again sportsdr!!!!


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

delhibuilder said:


> doc i slept 10 hours all of this week compared to my 9 hours, why did this 1 extra hour make me feel crap, i woke up with headaches, or is it the clen?


I think its more to do which 'phase' of sleep you were in when you woke than how much thats making you feel this way. Its possible the Clen is burning your candle at both ends, so you are sleeping more and perhaps also not getting the same 'quality' of sleep. You may be waking in the middle of the REM sleep cycle. SHould think when you stop the Clen it will return to normal. *added some info on this below*



anabolic ant said:


> thats a brilliant thread sportsdr...love this topic and some of the journals you found to reference...i've repped you!!!
> 
> sleep,is one of the major requirements of everyday life!!!
> 
> ...


No probs AA, considering its in the big 3, it was never really mentioned so I thought it deserved at least one thread lol!



Zara-Leoni said:


> Feckers...... I'm 35!!! You're only as old as the person you feel..... :laugh:


Well last week that made me 22 then awesome! :thumb:


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

For Delhibuilder from here

Do you wake up every morning with a headache? You're not alone. A recent study says that 1 in 13 people do. The study showed that of the 7.6 % of people suffering from the headaches had endured them for four years. That's a long time to be suffering! The highest incidence was in women and those aged 45 - 64.

There are many reasons why you could be waking up with a headache. Let's take these one by one.

*Sleep Apnea*

Sleep apnea is the commonest cause of feeling sleepy during the day. It means that while you're asleep, you stop breathing for a second or two. It sounds alarming but it is very common - around 18 million Americans suffer with it.

It can cause you to wake up with a headache, feeling as if you haven't slept. It can also give you a dry throat. The other symptoms of sleep apnea are snoring loudly and waking up with a jump. People who suffer from this are not sleeping deeply and unfortunately, being deprived of sleep is another cause of headaches.

If you think you may suffer from this, see your Doctor. Evaluation in the form of a sleep study will decide how severe your condition is. The usual remedy is a CPAP machine with a mask that you wear while you sleep.

*It's a grind&#8230;*

Many people grind their teeth during the night. If this becomes excessive, this causes the muscles of your neck and jaw to become tight and painful. This in turn means that you wake up with a headache. Happily, it is easy to remedy. See your Dentist who may fit you with a 'nightguard' - a simple, soft plastic appliance that sits comfortably in your mouth while you sleep and prevents grinding. These are also available to buy online.

*Tossing and turning*

A restless night can often mean a headache in the morning. Reasons for being restless vary. They can include all the reasons that we are dealing with and more. It becomes a case of remedying each possible reason in turn. Another possible cause is

*Restless legs*

A horrid sensation of having to move your legs. Many describe it as 'insects crawling inside the leg'. Try cutting back on smoking, caffeine and alcohol. A hot bath before bed can help. Some people find benefit from hot or cold packs - try both to see what works for you. It may be worth seeing your doctor for supplements of iron and magnesium. If all else fails, the doctor may prescribe Ropinirole, which is mainly for Parkinson's Disease but has been found to work well for restless legs.

*Sleeping&#8230;or not sleeping&#8230;with a snorer*

Continuous, thunderous snoring has driven the most patient and understanding of partners into the spare room. The non-snoring person can lose around 49 minutes of sleep each night, which adds up to 300 hours a year!

*Why do they snore?*

Snoring is actually the back of their throat vibrating because the muscles have become floppy.

It can be caused by:


Chronic allergies

Blocked-up nose

Resistance in the upper airway

Being overweight

Certain medicines


If any of these are the obvious reason for the problem, then they need dealing with.

If not, you can send them to see their dentist for a special gum shield, which can help to prevent snoring.

*As soon as I lay down to sleep, I start worrying*

This is extremely common. During the day, there is usually so much going on that it's easy to push anything that is bothering you to one side. But as soon as you get into bed, those other stimuli are gone and so you start to worry.

Many people go through periods when this happens to them - especially in great times of stress. It may last for quite a long time and then gradually lessen. If it goes on for months and your sleeping is badly affected, you could be heading for depression. It's worth a visit to your doctor who will be able to help you.

*note from SD*

I would add tot his list, get your BP checked matey :thumbup1:

hth

SD


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

It means that while you're asleep, you stop breathing for a second or two.

i have actually noticed this when sleeping i sudenly wake up thinking **** i havent had any breath for a few seconds.

wonder why this is, i dont normal wake up with headaches, i hardly suffer from them. must be the clen, ive just upped the dose too haha im going to get ****ed lol.

any way thanks and reps.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Sleep apnea does more than cause headaches, it can cause lower testosterone levels in men.

I do that grind thing, jacked my teeth some, and my left jaw hurts. I think that is called TMJ or something like that.

Children that sleep more are generally leaner.


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## steelicarus (Jul 24, 2011)

i take a few power naps during the day but usually get up at 4 or 5 regardless of if i want to or not unfortunately


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

SD said:


> *Importantly Testosterone levels are increased during sleep*, whether it is night sleep OR day sleep, in one study here by as much as 10nmol/litre. The implication of this is that those of you who have the luxury of afternoon naps may be naturally increasing your test! perhaps we all should do it??


honest question......is this why i always wake up with a morning glory?


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## steelicarus (Jul 24, 2011)

when i was a kid i used to think i woke up with a boner to stop myself from peeing in my sleep.

i may also have been retarded


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

I like to get 7 hours sleep in


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

a.notherguy said:


> honest question......is this why i always wake up with a morning glory?


Yes


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

I never get a proper sleep as i wake up during the night 1-2 times for a pee


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

I got sleep apnea and i snore, got constant sore throat theses days..

I take sleepers like diaz or zopiclone or nytol or all 3 sometimes 

Is this as good as normal sleep??? as i would struggle otherwise


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Men with sleep apnea are known to have lower testosterone levels.

Puts a terrible load on the heart too.


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## uknick (Mar 16, 2009)

steelicarus said:


> when i was a kid i used to think i woke up with a boner to stop myself from peeing in my sleep.
> 
> i may also have been retarded


I'm sure that's true!! - peeing in your sleep that is not the retarded bit of course:thumb:

As I get up to train before 6am most mornings (5am when swimming) I go to bed at around 10:30pm but probably not asleep until 11pm. So I probably only get 6 hours at best. To get 7-8 hours I would need to be in bed for 9-9:30 and asleep by 10pm. I guess the question is should I go to bed earlier or train later/less??


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## TaintedSoul (May 16, 2007)

hackskii said:


> *Men with sleep apnea are known to have lower testosterone levels.*
> 
> Puts a terrible load on the heart too.


But I supplement that so I should be alright? I upped the doses recently. :thumbup1:

I have:

Dry throat upon waking

Sore from snoring I assume

Snore for Britain

Sinuses

often wake up to change position in sleep

noticed sleep apnea a few times

I've taken to sleeping with numerous pillows to get various body parts comfortable.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Testosterone supplementation actually increases sleep apnea.

Get a c-pap machine or one of those mouth pieces that push the lower jaw out to open the passage.


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## PurpleOnes (Oct 17, 2013)

Really good thread.

I have been paying a lot of attention towards my sleep.

Making sure that I get 8+hours of sleep.

I even track my sleep with this app called Sleep bot.


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