# Help and guidance needed for abs??



## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi all, I have got back up to 15 stone..... I initially wanted to gain a few more lbs then cut in June for my summer holiday at the end of sept.

i have never really cut before so thought starting early may save disappointment?

however we ave booked another holiday now for the end of April, and naturally I want to try and gain my six pack for then......

i have started training abs again last week and intend to do do all summer now.....

any guidance? Do I drop carbs? Reduce carbs? Remove carbs and do the caveman high protein diet??

will 3x30min cardio be sufficient? Not fat just a layer to shift more on the lower ab area.

I train 3 x per week.

Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

Monday and Wednesday 5-6pm

Fridays 3-4pm

Monday: legs and shoulders

Wednesday: chest and biceps

Friday: back and triceps

Legs and shoulders:

Squats 3x10

Leg press 3x10

Lying hamstring curl 3x12

Standing calf raise(end of bench) 3x12

Dumbbell shoulder press 3x10

Standing bb front raise 3x10

Seated db side raise 3x10

Incline lying rear db delt 3x10

Decline an crunches 3 sets to failure

hanging wide grip leg raises 3 sets to failure

Chest and biceps

Db bench press 3x10

Dm incline bench press 3x10

Flat db flyers 3x10

Pec dec 3x10

Incline db curl 3x10

Standing hammer curl 3x10

Preacher curl 3x10

crunch machine 3 sets to failure

leg raises in support frame 3 sets to failure

Back and triceps

Dead lifts 3x10

Cable row 3x10

Latt pull down wide grip 3x10

Plate shrugs 3x12

Incline close grip bench press 3x10

Bb skull crushers 3x10

Cable pull down 3x12

the diet Diet:

7.15

3 whole asda eggs, 3 eggs whites, 1 slice of whole grain bread butter, (50g oats be better??

1 glass of fresh orange juice

1multivitamin

9.30

500ml semi skimmed milk, 50g whey, 50g oats, 1 apple

12.00

200g chicken breast, 100g basmati micro John west rice, peppers or onions

1 orange

3.00

1 tin of tuna fish, 200g white potatoe roasted

1 banana

6-7

200g chicken or 150g lean beef mince or 200g prawns, with 100g pasta or 300g potato

10

300ml semi milk with 50gwhey

supplements: whey (myprotien) due to current costs and finances

creatine (extremes or ev or cnp mono)


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## TheTransporter (Jan 30, 2014)

If you want to cut you must drop carbs and jack up cardio, plane and simple.

7.15 3 whole asda eggs, 3 eggs whites, 1 slice of whole grain bread butter, 1multivitamin

9.30 500ml water, 50g whey, 50g oats, 1 apple

12.00 200g chicken breast, 500g basmati micro John west rice, peppers or onions, 1 orange

3.00 1 tin of tuna fish, 200g white potato roasted, 1 banana

6-7 200g chicken or 150g lean beef mince or 200g prawns, with 50g pasta or 200g potato - (100g pasta, 400 cals, 300g potato 300 cals)

10 150ml semi milk/150ml water with 50g whey

You need to get a book with the breakdown of foods bud, youre diet looks like you were tryin to keep carbs steady accross meals but your out due to the carb content varying between the carbs n youve not allowed for this.


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Jonny, cardio and diet are what bring abs.

The Transporters diet advice looks ok to me.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks lads, yeah extreme that's what I am going to work on a lot!

I am now doing 30min on the treadmill and a moderate pace after each work out, so that equates to three times a week.

I am training abs after each work also, before cardio, 3 sets if crunches to failure, then 3 sets of leg raises to failure.

Normally get around 30 reps, 20 reps, 10 reps on crunches and 15 reps in leg raises.

Diet wise:

So carbs lower than protien??

Would I not be better off with 50g oats with milk, rather than a slice of bread with butter with my eggs for breakfast?

I was going to elimate bread completely for six weeks.

Would 50g be enough rice of for lunch? I have half a basmati microwave rice now as it is and it isn't a great deal.

Also, is white/red potato ok to eat still? And what Bout my shakes? I think I would puke with water but could swap semi skimmed milk to 0% fat milk???

Thank you for your advice


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

117-146 should this be my average pulse/heart rate? With the max of 195???

How crucial is this? As I don't want to lose any mass


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Jonny you need to buy a book or do some research on your diet so you know the calories, fat/protein/carb content of foods. The fact you asked if you'd not be better off with 50g oats in milk than eggs and a slice of toast shows you don't know enough about this side of things to be able to work this stuff out and amend it as it needs amending.

The 2 meals you mentioned are nothing alike in nutritional value, if you don't know this you're going to screw your diet up in no time and you can do as many crunches as you want but abs come through diet and cardio, not crunches.

You say you don't want to lose mass and you've mentioned how little 50g of rice would be, you either have to diet for a longer time slowly or you have to run the risk of losing a bit of size and get used to being hungry if you want to do it in a short period of time.

If dieting was easy, obesity wouldn't be the problem/killer it is today.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Extreme I would always have my eggs, I meant would 50g oats not be a better carb source than bread to accompany them......

I will try better with macros at weekend


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

There's a big difference in the amount of calories in 1 slice of bread compared to 50 oats with milk.

I got a lot of this wrong when I started and slowed my progress down dramatically.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Ok......

I have done better research and tried to work out my macros better and came up with the following I am eating daily to try and get my abs out.

25 years of age

15stone

Training 4-5 years

Good/fast metabolism

Breakfast:

6eggs, 1 slice of bread

Total: 484 kcals

38.4g protien (based of 6 whole eggs, I have 3whole 3 whites)

15g carbs

9.30 meal

500ml semi milk, 2scoops whey, 1scoop oats

Total:

625 kcal

68g protien

30g carbs

Lunch

200 chicken breast, half a basmatic micro rice

Total:

371 kcal

40g protien

30g carbs

3.00 meal

1 tin of tuna, 200g potatoes

Total:

279kcal

31g protien

34g carbs

Tea

200g meat, 200g potatoes ( based on chicken breast, could be beef or pork also!

Total:

374 kcal

40g protien

34g carbs

Bedtime

300ml semi milk 2 scoops whey

Total:

205 kcal

60.8g protien

Milk included in protein figures....so 50g whey + 10g protein off milk

Food not included in 3 pieces of fruit daily, veg with lunch and 300ml of orange juice with breakfast

I also have a recovery shake after training, cnp pre recover with water 23g protein 48g carbs


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Overall totals appear to be:

Kcal- 2,328

Protein - 281g

Carbs 143g

Not included veg portion with lunch, 3 pieces of fruit and 300ml fresh orange (sugars)

Looking to build size whilst gain abs (reduce body fat).....

3litres of water

5g creatine on training days post workout

1mulit vitamin


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

2520 cals

220 protien

283 carbs

56g fat

I have calculated these figures for 15 stone man??

I am slightly below...


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## Max1466868006 (Feb 16, 2010)

OK, so you've recalculated the diet and the macro's do look better. But now you want to grow whilst this happens?

You're setting yourself up to fail. If you can get abs out by the end of april you'll have done well, this will include cardio and restricted calories so it's unlikely you'll notice and growth because you may well gain but only a small amount.

Concentrate on cutting or concentrate on growing. Set smaller goals than you're doing and if you've a holiday or something coming up start earlier or plan it earlier so you're settled on what your about to do.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks normad, well originally my holiday was September.... So I was going to try my first cut in june, giving me June, July, august and most of September..... So I was going to bulk til June.

However, I am now also going away for a week for the last week of April.....

So I decided I would like slight abs or a very flat/tight stomach....

I decided to go for it..... And maybe carry on right through til September?

As thy should give

Plenty time for a decent set by then asking as I keep my 3 x 30min cardio consistent?

But I would like to grow still till sept....

Is this possible with my macros being lower than the average man qunanties?


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

Jonny, I'd back off the cardio and see what happens on that diet and weight training alone.

Set your main goal as being September and you should be truly ripped by then.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

Is it not lacking in carbs though extreme to carry on building elsewhere???

And I thought cardio AND diet where what made abdominals?

Thanks for your help, it's appreciated!


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

They are what gets you abs BUT if you have a clean enough diet and give yourself enough time you won't need to do much cardio.

If you burn 400 calories through an 40 mins to an hour of cardio it's only 300 more than you'd have burned doing nothing and you will be slowing muscle development down, none of the others will argue this with me because this is a fact. Most people need to do cardio because they don't start dieting early enough and they get too fat in the offseason.

Carbs don't build muscle, all carbs are is energy and to prevent muscle stored amino's being burned for energy, this can be prevented anyway by using Branched Chain Aminos.

Carbs aren't even burned during weights, creatine and fat is so if you have creatine and branched chains in your system you're protecting your muscle mass.


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## jonnymc (Mar 22, 2009)

So aslong as my protein is in within the required for a 15stone man, which is a minimum of 220g (mine is above that figure) I will still gain? Even with my carbs being a 1/3 Less in grams for a 15stone man.

How about fat doug? I can't see any healthy fats really in my diet??? As you can't use the fats in my food really, can you? Healthy fats would be along side my current meals.... Like evo, nuts etc??? And not the fat in my meats etc..... Right?

I do use olive oil to roast my potatoes, and could add peanut butter to each shake??

Thanks


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## jadenmiller (Aug 29, 2013)

I feel you can categories your ab workouts as following:

• Exercising the upper flexion (say, with a weighted crunch)

• Exercising the lower flexion (with hanging knee raises)

• Rotation (Russian twists)

• Exercising the double flexion (row boats)

• Exercising the side flexion

• Anti-movement/stability exercises like planks, Cable Pallof Press


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## gingernut (Dec 11, 2006)

Is the fruit in with your totals or not and if not why didn't you write them in the diet?Orange juice is mostly thought of as useless, I call it "sugar in a glass". If you want vitamins there are better ways to obtain them.

Some people find abs after cardio is more useful, and if you are weight training using free weights, compound lifts you might not have to do anything specific until much further in. A lot of people go hammer and tongs and never see abs.


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