# Fat Loss Advice Sought - Pscarb, Con, DB etc



## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Firstly, some stats:


24

Unassisted

185.6 cm

94.2 kg (as of this morning)

Bf% unknown. Abs faintly visible. Some slight separation in the larger muscles on upper back. My guess (and it is a guess) about 18%.


Supplements taken:


MP Whey Isolate and Vitargo - PWO only

Glutamine, Creatine, BCAA, Vit B6 (taken with BCAA)

Animal Pak - 1 daily before bed - On training days also 1 immediately PWO


Food Sources:

*Protein*


Turkey, chicken, lean beef (mince or steak), egg white, cod, salmon and tuna

*Carbohydrates*


Sweet Potato, banana

*Fats*


Coconut oil, olive oil, groundnut oil, fish oil/cod liver oil caps

*Other*


Broccoli, salad (lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes)

I will be starting a new diet as of the 8th April to reduce fat, while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible. I have been following a carb-cycling diet throughout my 'bulk', which I have found extremely easy to follow and adjust. I will likely continue this for the fat loss, unless anyone can provide good reasons to not. After reading up many posts on here, by Pscarb etc, and on other boards, I feel carb cycling is a good approach to take.

Although I have had some good gains on my current diet, I feel I could incorporate more fruit into the mix. I've watched some videos of Neil Hill on the net where he describes the breakdown of a typical contest prep diet and he likes to use a lot of fruit. Well, thats how I interpret it anyway!

At present, my only source of fruit is bananas (lots of) and 100% pure tropicana orange juice with bits. I love fruit, but for some reason didn't include more in the diet. This I would like to change. I was initially looking to include blueberries into my diet, but the cost is unbelievable for the amount of fruit you get. What, in your opinion, is the best fruits to include?

I would also consider myself an ectomorph, so I think I will lose the weight relatively easily. However, I want to maintain as much muscle mass as possible, so do not want to rush it. As I have not followed a strict fat loss diet before, Im unsure of the typical weekly fat loss I should be looking at.

To gain weight I calculated my daily calorie intake by calculating my BMR and multiplying by an activity level factor, in my case 1.6. Is is reasonable to assume a similar approach to fat loss is required? Take my target weight for the week/month, calculate BMR based off that figure and multiply by the activity level factor?

Training Breakdown


Weight training 3 days per week, on a 9 day split (chest & triceps, quads & hamstring, back width & shoulder, back thickness & biceps). DC style compound first exercise followed by FST 7 isolation exercise)

Fasted cardio first thing in the morning on non training days - tuesday, thursday, saturday


So, my questions at this time are:


What fruit is good to include in a fat loss diet?

What is a good weekly target of weight loss to minimise muscle mass loss? And how to calculate the calorie intake required.


Will most likely create a journal and update with pictures and diet/training info. But with 2 weeks before I start the new diet, wanted to get everything sorted to hit the ground running.


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## Skinnymonkey (Mar 5, 2010)

Adam_W said:


> Firstly, some stats:
> 
> 
> 24
> ...


Everything you need to know is in the forums already, you just need to take the initiative and search. I'm sure the satisfaction from the end result will be greater than being spoon fed the information


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

If you are going to do DC why not do the DC diet also.

Carb and protein meals only until late afternoon then fat and protein meals after than.

The only nutrient you count is protein intake this should be high at least 1.5 grams per lb body weight. Eat the other nutrients as hunger dictates.

Do 1 hour fasted cardio on non training days.

Drop that tropicana **** and have real whole oranges.

P.S. i must be moving up in the world if my name is getting mentioned for diet advice LOL.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Skinnymonkey, thanks for the constructive post! As it happens I have been searching and indeed indicated this in the post with reference to other threads/vids etc. Also, judging by some of your posts you can hardly comment with some of the questions you've asked.

Con, I agree that Tropicana is not the best source of fruit, but it mixes with the egg whites well and makes eating them much easier!I do not consume large amounts of this, just 50g with the egg whites, so i'd quite like to keep it in. However, I will gladly add in whole oranges to the diet. Any fruits deemed better than others, or more a thing of personal preference.

I've actually not read up anything on the DC diet, so will go and do some research into this now. However, you say to "Eat the other nutrients as hunger dictates." I could happily eat a large amount of food, but when loosing fat this is not constructive. I think I would find it easier for it to be a set structure for all nutrients, and adjust it accordingly to the desired loss. I may be wrong though and would like to hear others opinions.

Considering your posts on here and your physique Con, I think its understandable why others would seek advice. After all, its obvious you've been there and done it, which cant be said for Skinnymonkey (this may be wrong, so don't bite my head off!!).


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Well DC training is geared about putting on as much muscular tissue as possible it doesn't work too well on a diet as you can't keep increasing strength easily.

But ok lets say in your situation....

Get up do 1 hour fasted cardio

Breakfast: 10 egg whites, 1 serving orange juice, 100 grams oats, 1 banana

Meal 2-6: 250 grams lean meat, salad, 10 grams fat from the sources you listed

When training prior to training have 300 grams sweet potato, 2 scoops whey/ 250grams lean meat whichever is easier and you prefer.

PWO 100 grams vitargo and 2 scoops whey

Once per week on a training day have any thing you want within reason (a massive angus burger a load of potato instead of 2 slices of chocolate cake!) for the last few meals of the day after you PWO shake.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Now you've said that Con regarding DC, its made me think its not the best form of training for the diet. I must have miss-read in your posts as I thought you followed DC / rest-pause all the way through?

Regarding the cheat meals I will continue to do so once per week, as I am currently. Even though they are cheat they tend to be relatively clean anyway.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Now you've said that Con regarding DC, its made me think its not the best form of training for the diet. I must have miss-read in your posts as I thought you followed DC / rest-pause all the way through?
> 
> Regarding the cheat meals I will continue to do so once per week, as I am currently. Even though they are cheat they tend to be relatively clean anyway.


Yes but you also have to understand due to supplements that i take and that you do not i am able to keep increasing my strength for a long time while dieting. I could not do this naturally.


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Very good point :thumb:


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> If you are going to do DC why not do the DC diet also.
> 
> Carb and protein meals only until late afternoon then fat and protein meals after than.
> 
> ...


No mention for me, so no advice! :whistling:


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> No mention for me, so no advice! :whistling:


 :lol:

That is a pity as you have a wealth of info.

Your keto diets are a winner.

I didn't suggest one as he had all his carbs and stuff lined out already


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Joe, better?!


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Joe, better?!


Too late, I'm sulking now. :sad:

Going to go the Gym now, and cardio myself into a pool of sweat!


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

But Joe, big boys don't cry! haha


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> But Joe, big boys don't cry! haha


I'm not big though!! I'm scrawny compared to some on here. I just make small look good :whistling:


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Con, in reference to your comment about DC training not being suitable for a unassisted lifter when trying to lose fat, what training protocol would you say is suitable?


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

Adam_W said:


> Con, in reference to your comment about DC training not being suitable for a unassisted lifter when trying to lose fat, what training protocol would you say is suitable?


Slightly higher volume but with compound lifts.

1 compound exercise and 1 isolation exercise per body part with 3 working sets with reps between 6-10 reps to muscular failure.

True DC and HIT training really needs a high level of training and physical/mental ability to truly make it work. This is even harder to achieve while dieting never mind dangerous.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Hey Con, after my show, my next human experiment on myself is gonna be DC training on an Anabolic Diet.

You know I like to experiment and learn, what do you reckon to this one? I'm gonna do it anyway for about 8-10 weeks, after I've recovered from dieting.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> Hey Con, after my show, my next human experiment on myself is gonna be DC training on an Anabolic Diet.
> 
> You know I like to experiment and learn, what do you reckon to this one? I'm gonna do it anyway for about 8-10 weeks, after I've recovered from dieting.


That will work superbly mate absalute no doubt there!

I will have to keep in touch with you as i am doing some thing like this my self.

Will be off any sort of "help" for the rest of the year after my shows so it will be back to getting very scientific with every thing.

No more room for "ah i think i will do a couple more pumping sets":laugh:


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> That will work superbly mate absalute no doubt there!
> 
> I will have to keep in touch with you as i am doing some thing like this my self.
> 
> ...


The way I figured it, is that since about August 2009 I've been doing more higher intensity stuff and lower volume. Although I'm not hell of a lot bigger, my muscles feel denser, and when I attempt a traditional set to test strength against my old way of training I can lift a lot more. The only set back was that I had an inflamed bursa on my left elbow for about 5 months. Luckily recovered from that just in time for show prep. So lesson 1 is that perfect form, high intensity lower volume gives me good results. Lesson 2 is that I have learned from keto dieting that my body favours the low carb. Me and carbs just equals fat, and that even includes brown rices and oats, it's just the way I am built. So if I combine a good HI routine, with a low carb high calorie diet I should yield some good results. I think the anabolic diet is about the only version of CKD that will give me a chance of growth, and also fancy the thought of bacon, eggs, double cream protein shakes, and whatever I like at weekends.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> The way I figured it, is that since about August 2009 I've been doing more higher intensity stuff and lower volume. Although I'm not hell of a lot bigger, my muscles feel denser, and when I attempt a traditional set to test strength against my old way of training I can lift a lot more. The only set back was that I had an inflamed bursa on my left elbow for about 5 months. Luckily recovered from that just in time for show prep. So lesson 1 is that perfect form, high intensity lower volume gives me good results. Lesson 2 is that I have learned from keto dieting that my body favours the low carb. Me and carbs just equals fat, and that even includes brown rices and oats, it's just the way I am built. So if I combine a good HI routine, with a low carb high calorie diet I should yield some good results. I think the anabolic diet is about the only version of CKD that will give me a chance of growth, and also fancy the thought of bacon, eggs, double cream protein shakes, and whatever I like at weekends.


Sounds good to me mate.

In the off time from gear i am very precise with training either i do HIT or DC. On cycle well i often do extra because tbh it really doesn't do any thing negative when you have ten times the hormone levels of a normal person.

DC is great but you probably need a training partner.

Also this breaths between sets thing is silly imo. I use a stop watch 20 seconds for some exercises 30 for other, i can't recover to do more reps on lets say incline bench after 20 seconds.

Also as much as this is preaching to the choir with you but the form has to be kept the same each week or else how can you gauge progress:confused1:

The two way system is ok for periods of times but after a while i can't handle it and do the 3 way which works like a dream for me. I think it depends on how heavy you can go. After doing all my upper body to pull lets say 7 plates for 4-6 reps is pretty much out of the question.

If you need info on DC as in document form just pm some time and i will link you to a private link i have which has i think all of them.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Lois_Lane said:


> Sounds good to me mate.
> 
> In the off time from gear i am very precise with training either i do HIT or DC. On cycle well i often do extra because tbh it really doesn't do any thing negative when you have ten times the hormone levels of a normal person.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the only concern I have is the training partner thing. Firstly I train at 2 different gyms 50 miles apart, as I am 2 locations, 1 in the week, another at weekends. History has taught me that people don't like training with me, after a session or 2 they just don't turn up. Wonder why? :whistling:

Might have to modify the training somehow to fit. Use the principles that don't necessarily require a training partner.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

I think we may have hijacked a thread again Con


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

I can put my 2p's worth but my advice and dieting is VERY different to Con's but his obviously works for him

However seeing as u are tall and naturally and ectomorph i'd say your physique is similar to mine and cons low carb assult would see u(like it would me) p1ssing muscle away.

so 94kg at 6ft2 and around 12-14%bf?

I'd hit 45 mins am cardio every day

Food wise

Breakkie - 80g oats 60g whey, 100g pineapple

meal 2 - 200g chicken or fish, 200g sweet spud, veg

Meal 3 - 200g chicken, 100g wholemeal bread, 30ml olive oil

Meal 4 - 80g oats 60g whey, 100g pineapple

PWO shake - 2 scoops whey, 2 bananas

Meal 5 200g chicken, 200g sweet spud, veg ( on training days 250g red meat instead)

Meal 6 - 2 whole eggs, 5 whites, 70g wholemeal bread, 30g casien,

Higher carbs&pro but lowish fat

As u are cutting naturally no more than 2lbs a week, calculating calories is VERY hard as everyone has totally different expenditures

My suggestion, pick a diet, monitor it and then adjust according, when you stop dropping, just knock out 150-200 calories (not from protein or first&PWO meal) or up cardio

just my opinion matey


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## Críostóir (Dec 12, 2009)

what incline and speed would you suggest for fat burn on the treadmill?


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

oh and personally i wouldnt be doing a 9 day split when dieting tbh.. just keep it simple


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## Bri (Jul 15, 2009)

excuse my complete ****ness, but what does DC stand for that you guys keep talking about?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Bri said:


> excuse my complete ****ness, but what does DC stand for that you guys keep talking about?


DC = Dogcrap!


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## AB1990 (Nov 3, 2009)

DB how many kcals approx would be in that diet you posted?


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## Bri (Jul 15, 2009)

Haha... That sounds like an odd diet. What's the protein content like in dog crap? :lol:

Lol, what does it mean then?


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

google is your friend, correct spelling doggcrapp


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## Bri (Jul 15, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> google is your friend, correct spelling doggcrapp


PMSL, i thought you were joking.. just googled it for the fun of it PMSL... and training stuff has come up.... sorry i didn't trust you buddy! :lol: :beer:


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

AB1990 said:


> DB how many kcals approx would be in that diet you posted?


about 3100k prob, just plucked it out of the air, basing it similar to mine


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

DB said:


> I can put my 2p's worth but my advice and dieting is VERY different to Con's but his obviously works for him
> 
> However seeing as u are tall and naturally and ectomorph i'd say your physique is similar to mine and cons low carb assult would see u(like it would me) p1ssing muscle away.


Very valid point mate.

I think you and i have opposite body types when it comes to this.

TBH given the guys states i would follow your approach at least for 8 weeks and see what happens


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Lois_Lane said:


> Very valid point mate.
> 
> *I think you and i have opposite body types when it comes to this*.
> 
> TBH given the guys states i would follow your approach at least for 8 weeks and see what happens


Defo- You get big easily and I get ripped easily.. ffs i know i'd prefer the big bit as getting lean is easier than getting big!! :confused1:

He asked 3 most random physiques on here:

Con- Mesomorph

Me - Ectomorph

Pscarb- Minimorph


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

DB said:


> Defo- You get big easily and I get ripped easily.. ffs i know i'd prefer the big bit as getting lean is easier than getting big!! :confused1:
> 
> He asked 3 most random physiques on here:
> 
> ...


:laugh: I guess he wanted 3 very different opinions


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Lois_Lane said:


> :laugh: I guess he wanted 3 very different opinions


  i'm just doing my best to **** pscarb off as his car broke down and took him hours to get home.. so if he kills himself i'd like to be the one that put the last nail in the coffin so to speak


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

DB said:


> i'm just doing my best to **** pscarb off as his car broke down and took him hours to get home.. so if he kills himself i'd like to be the one that put the last nail in the coffin so to speak


I did notice a very annoyed facebook status a few hours ago:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Db cheers for the suggestions. The reason I named a few of you guys is I know you know your stuff and will be good to hear differing opinions. Didnt know we had supposed similar body types though DB, so thats a plus.

Do you not find it a struggle eating carbs all the into the evening? Ill certainly give it a go and see how I get on though. Will start a journal when the time comes. Be good to advice as time progresses also.

With the pineapple fresh whole is clearly better. But do you not find a lot goes to waste when just cut a small amount off, then leave it for the next serving?

Con, with the training protocol you suggested, for the 3 working sets do you increase or decrease weight? I've been training DC/HIT with a combination of FST for quite a long time now. I was reading a few articles though that suggest you should train heaviest in first working set? your opinions?

Whats

DB, what kind of training protocol do you follow when pre contest?


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Adam_W said:


> Db cheers for the suggestions. The reason I named a few of you guys is I know you know your stuff and will be good to hear differing opinions. Didnt know we had supposed similar body types though DB, so thats a plus.
> 
> Do you not find it a struggle eating carbs all the into the evening? Hell no! i think everyone loves eating carbs! Ill certainly give it a go and see how I get on though. Will start a journal when the time comes. Be good to advice as time progresses also.
> 
> ...


 :beer:


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Haha I didnt make myself very clear there, sorry.

What I meant in reference to the carbs into the evening is struggle to lose the fat? It was one reason why I liked the carb cycling approach, as it cut carbs out mid afternoon. But if you think its beneficial im willing to give it a go.

If you cut the pineapple up though and leave the rest in the fridge, its going to go manky after a few days, as thats how long its likely to last isnt it with only small servings each time?

On the training, I meant more in terms of sets etc as opposed to split, sorry!


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Adam_W said:


> Haha I didnt make myself very clear there, sorry.
> 
> What I meant in reference to the carbs into the evening is struggle to lose the fat? It was one reason why I liked the carb cycling approach, as it cut carbs out mid afternoon. But if you think its beneficial im willing to give it a go. if i struggled to lose fat I wouldnt do it mate would I?
> 
> ...


its in my prep thread somewhere mate


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## Adam_W (Jun 19, 2008)

Guess your right, and clearly its working for you. Thanks for the advice ill give it a go and monitor the progress.


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