# d-aspartic acid = good sh=t!!!



## B-lean

started d-aspartic acid caps 5 days ago and my test through the roof (by feel that is not bloodtest). i have low test naturally and by day 2 of taking caps my labido is right up and feel pretty dam good. a bit lke how you feel after a few weeks of being on sust or cyp to be honest. I really werent expecting it to be this good so quick. strength hasnt made a massive jump yet in gym but hey its early yet. i will post up any strength gains etc by the end of the month course. :thumb:


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## Lois_Lane

Which brand are you using? I saw and felt nothing from the plain caps from trueprotien.


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## B-lean

it is the BBS brand (better body sports). It may be i feeling it more than most people coz i have very low natural test levels maybe dya think lois lane????


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## Lois_Lane

B-lean said:


> it is the BBS brand (better body sports). It may be i feeling it more than most people coz i have very low natural test levels maybe dya think lois lane????


 I had rock bottom test levels (like close to no existant) mate and it did nothing for me. I may try out the new stuff from PA test force 2 or whatever its called.


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## stew121

just ordered a tub of BBS d-aspartic acid this afternoon,hope i respond to it like you have B-lean


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## Robbyg

Where did you get if from ?


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## henryv

B-lean said:


> started d-aspartic acid caps 5 days ago and my test through the roof (by feel that is not bloodtest). i have low test naturally and by day 2 of taking caps my labido is right up and feel pretty dam good. a bit lke how you feel after a few weeks of being on sust or cyp to be honest. I really werent expecting it to be this good so quick. strength hasnt made a massive jump yet in gym but hey its early yet. i will post up any strength gains etc by the end of the month course. :thumb:


Nice! DAA may well have a direct stimulating effect on libido, it's not necessarily that your test levels have shot up already.



Lois_Lane said:


> I had rock bottom test levels (like close to no existant) mate and it did nothing for me. I may try out the new stuff from PA test force 2 or whatever its called.


I'm not sure when test force 2 will reach here, I think PN still has stock of TF1.

We had blood tests done on three guys, one of whom had low test to begin with. His test went from 129ng/dL to 271ng/dL in 19 days supplementation (110% increase).


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## Lois_Lane

henryv said:


> I'm not sure when test force 2 will reach here, I think PN still has stock of TF1.
> 
> We had blood tests done on three guys, one of whom had low test to begin with. His test went from 129ng/dL to 271ng/dL in 19 days supplementation (110% increase).


 Wow that was even lower than mine!

Great increase though.

I intend to buy two bottles for use in the new year.


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## B-lean

i guess either the brand u had was not as potent as this one or just that everybody responds different to stuff aint it. i took what was the strongest cyp ive ever had once a few years back whilst every1 else was complaining saying the gear was duff.

what were your numbers of ya test levels wen they were rock bottom LOIS LANE mine were at 5 and igf 1 levels at 108ng/ml (what ever that means! im just copying it off the results.)


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## B-lean

i got it from bodybuilding warehousr ROBBY G. and cheers to HENRY V makes sense that labido up and not test,hence the no strength gains yet. but hey if im horney im happy which means aspartic acid gets the thumbs up from me!!


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## stew121

Robbyg said:


> Where did you get if from ?


hi mate got it from www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk :thumbup1:


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## Robbyg

Cheers guys


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## SK-XO

What do you recommend con?

Not tried this stuff, however been using t-911 by lg sciences for a while now and defo felt good results from this, also from suffering from low test I reckon my test is defo on the up as my sex drive has climbed a lot higher libido. Had blood taken yesterday so will report back what my test is when I get it. But I do rate t-911 highly!

Need to try the d-aa.


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## Lois_Lane

SK-XO said:


> What do you recommend con?
> 
> Not tried this stuff, however been using t-911 by lg sciences for a while now and defo felt good results from this, also from suffering from low test I reckon my test is defo on the up as my sex drive has climbed a lot higher libido. Had blood taken yesterday so will report back what my test is when I get it. But I do rate t-911 highly!
> 
> Need to try the d-aa.


 t-911 is that not the fat burner that you put under your tongue (which is very effective btw)? Or is that strength complex stuff? I haven't used that one yet as i am saving it to break whatever upcoming plateaus i may have.

I don't know what i recommend mate. Certainly not plain d-asparic acid.

Now if it has the chelated cacium in it then it may work well.

I got mine as one of the first batches to come out and it didnt have this calcium which apparantly is needed.

The PA test force has given great results to guys in my area....i am impressed by that.


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## SK-XO

Lois_Lane said:


> t-911 is that not the fat burner that you put under your tongue (which is very effective btw)? Or is that strength complex stuff? I haven't used that one yet as i am saving it to break whatever upcoming plateaus i may have.
> 
> I don't know what i recommend mate. Certainly not plain d-asparic acid.
> 
> Now if it has the chelated cacium in it then it may work well.
> 
> I got mine as one of the first batches to come out and it didnt have this calcium which apparantly is needed.
> 
> The PA test force has given great results to guys in my area....i am impressed by that.


Well yeah it has yohimbine etc in it. But it's marketed as a test booster. In terms of the fat burning effects, im not cutting so I don't know? but it does seem to more harden the muscle. As for strength im as strong as ever, but no idea what to put that down to.

I'll have a look into that PA test force. Just remember you saying that you liked the first batches but suppose things change lol.


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## BBWarehouse

That's awesome it's working so well for you! I'm going to forward this thread to the guys at Better Body Sports - they'll love the positive review. Very solid brand with some solid products that don't get talked about that much in the UK yet


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## big_nige

dieting at present and need a boost, when will test force 2 be out do u no???

is t-911 a pretty good booster? at the mo im just relying on a 4shot espresso before gym


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## henryv

big_nige said:


> dieting at present and need a boost, when will test force 2 be out do u no???
> 
> is t-911 a pretty good booster? at the mo im just relying on a 4shot espresso before gym


TestForce 2 has just been released in the US. The original TestForce is available now from Predator Nutrition, and it's a great product.

Just to be clear, it's a test booster (and libido enhancer), it's not a pre-workout stim.


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## mrmasive

read later


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## Dazza

Just ordered this along with an ai booster, as i've read daa increases estrogen as well

Any ideas when best to take the ai, im thinking either the same time or 1 week into taking the daa, as i've heard daa lingers a while after stopping


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## henryv

Dazzza said:


> Just ordered this along with an ai booster, as i've read daa increases estrogen as well
> 
> Any ideas when best to take the ai, im thinking either the same time or 1 week into taking the daa, as i've heard daa lingers a while after stopping


It does, only for a few days though. I haven't heard any reports of estrogen being a problem with DAA.


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## Dazza

True, but it won't hurt running it alongside it

I think I'll take them both the same time for maximum benefit


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## Dazza

Just taken my first cap, oh this is going to be interesting stuff. Been feeling down of late this is really starting to pick things up, dying to hit the gym later on


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## maccer

henryv said:


> Nice! DAA may well have a direct stimulating effect on libido, it's not necessarily that your test levels have shot up already.
> 
> I'm not sure when test force 2 will reach here, I think PN still has stock of TF1.
> 
> We had blood tests done on three guys, one of whom had low test to begin with. His test went from 129ng/dL to 271ng/dL in 19 days supplementation (110% increase).


Was that using the TCF-1 product?


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## henryv

maccer said:


> Was that using the TCF-1 product?


Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was referring to E-Pharm TestForce 2 in regard to the blood tests. E-Pharm TestForce version 1 (TF1) is available now from Predator Nutrition. I rep for both companies, so if you have any questions, fire away.


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## kuju

henryv said:


> Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was referring to E-Pharm TestForce 2 in regard to the blood tests. E-Pharm TestForce version 1 (TF1) is available now from Predator Nutrition. I rep for both companies, so if you have any questions, fire away.


Yup!! Any idea when Testforce 2 may hit the UK? I've been using the original formula and I like it very much. The revised formula seems to make more sense though....

Also - to the person who posted concerns about raised estrogen levels - I don't see any way DAA is really going to push you into supra physiological levels of testosterone so estrogen shouldn't be an issue. That said mild AI's could be worth a go ...wouldn't hurt I guess (or have i got that all completely wrong?!)


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## henryv

kuju said:


> Yup!! Any idea when Testforce 2 may hit the UK? I've been using the original formula and I like it very much. The revised formula seems to make more sense though....
> 
> Also - to the person who posted concerns about raised estrogen levels - I don't see any way DAA is really going to push you into supra physiological levels of testosterone so estrogen shouldn't be an issue. That said mild AI's could be worth a go ...wouldn't hurt I guess (or have i got that all completely wrong?!)


It may be a while, Predator Nutrition is currently the only UK retailer of E-Pharm, and I think we still have plenty of stock of version 1 (which is a great product, as you've found). I dunno, I think Reggie saw PA at the O this weekend, maybe they arranged something.

Sure, a mild AI shouldn't hurt, but I don't think it's necessary. TF2 did push one of our testers into supraphysiological testosterone levels, which was pretty impressive.


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## kuju

Dan92 said:


> What does that mean ???
> 
> Off the scale or something ??


Beyond their normal, natural, range....usually only somethign you find by sticking testosterone straight in (in some form)


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## henryv

Dan92 said:


> What does that mean ???
> 
> Off the scale or something ??


Subjects supplemented for 19 days with E-Pharm Testforce Two as instructed.

Baseline: 596 ng/dL

Range: 250 - 836 ng/dL

Post TestForce Two: 934 ng/dL

The subject experienced a 57% increase in total testosterone.

I don't have a letterheaded copy of the lab results though, so you'll have to take my word for it.

Here's the results for all three of our testers:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2rrs27d.jpg]


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## henryv

Dan92 said:


> subject two needs to see an endo asap.


Yeah, I recommended he follow up with a doctor. He's a tested natural competitive bodybuilder, it may be that pre-contest dieting caused the low test.


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## kuju

Really interesting results there - (apart from No 2's scary normal test levels!).

Do you have any idea why there is such a range of increases? (From 10% to 110%). I'm just wondering what was happening with each guy to give such wide ranging results.

Obviously everyone is different but since you presumably know more about their respective diets/other supplement use etc I'm curious if there was any other factor you found that could influence the outcome?

Just curiousity really....i'm ploughing through a second tub of TF 1(or I was - I stopped whilst trialling something else but since that seems to not be working i'll be back on the TF1 soon I think). I will definitely be up for trying TF 2.

On a side note....there is one other website in the UK offering Testforce 1. I won't name it for obvious reasons but just thought you should know....unless of course it's just another offshoot from PN?


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## henryv

kuju said:


> Do you have any idea why there is such a range of increases? (From 10% to 110%). I'm just wondering what was happening with each guy to give such wide ranging results.
> 
> Obviously everyone is different but since you presumably know more about their respective diets/other supplement use etc I'm curious if there was any other factor you found that could influence the outcome?


I don't know really. Individual biochemistry probably comes into play. Note that although #3's test only rose 10%, his LH went up by 44%. Normally that would be associated with a significant increase in test. It looks like it was working in his brain, but his testes didn't respond well to the increased LH. 19 days is a pretty short time to judge results as well, I would be interested to see tests in people taking it longer. Subjectively they all reported an increase in libido IIRC.



kuju said:


> On a side note....there is one other website in the UK offering Testforce 1. I won't name it for obvious reasons but just thought you should know....unless of course it's just another offshoot from PN?


Yeah I came across that this morning. Maybe a PN offshoot, or maybe PN distributed TF to them? I dunno.


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## kuju

henryv said:


> I don't know really. Individual biochemistry probably comes into play. Note that although #3's test only rose 10%, his LH went up by 44%. Normally that would be associated with a significant increase in test. It looks like it was working in his brain, but his testes didn't respond well to the increased LH. 19 days is a pretty short time to judge results as well, I would be interested to see tests in people taking it longer. Subjectively they all reported an increase in libido IIRC.
> 
> Yeah I came across that this morning. Maybe a PN offshoot, or maybe PN distributed TF to them? I dunno.


Hmmm..... I'm wondering if his testes were desensitized to LH at that stage. After all - people on cycles can have LH levels shooting up up post cycle with no rise in T levels...

Interesting... thank you for the answer


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## henryv

kuju said:


> Hmmm..... I'm wondering if his testes were desensitized to LH at that stage. After all - people on cycles can have LH levels shooting up up post cycle with no rise in T levels...
> 
> Interesting... thank you for the answer


Just to be clear, none of the testers had ever used prohormones or steroids. Yw.


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## round 2

Or could it replace clomid in PCT?? And is it less toxic than clomid??


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## kuju

henryv said:


> Just to be clear, none of the testers had ever used prohormones or steroids. Yw.


Sorry.....I've just realised how that came across. I didn't actually mean to imply they had - just that rises in LH don't automatically equate to elevated test levels.


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## henryv

Dan92 said:


> so basically this product is increasing LH levels therefore boosting testosterone, so would a clomid cycle not be a more effective cheaper method.


I don't know that clomid would be either more effective or cheaper.

DAA is a naturally occuring amino acid, whereas SERMs are not natural, and not without side-effects (as well as being a prescription-only drug). Clomid tends to lower libido in many, as well as causing emotional issues, whereas D-Aspartic Acid raises libido and people report a heightened mental alertness and focus. Price is contentious, pharma grade clomid doesn't tend to be cheap from most online suppliers I've seen.


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## henryv

round 2 said:


> Or could it replace clomid in PCT?? And is it less toxic than clomid??


It may be that someone wants to try this, and it may well work, we're not going to recommend it though.

I have seen dozens of people add it to their SERM PCT protocols though, and pretty much to a man they've reported the quickest recovery of testicular size and libido they've ever had. If you're interested I'll paste some feedback.


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## round 2

May just run it along side clomid???

But since i havent ever bothered running it the past how would i know it was working?

dilema:confused1:


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## Dagman72

round 2 said:


> May just run it along side clomid???
> 
> But since i havent ever bothered running it the past how would i know it was working?
> 
> dilema:confused1:


Go on and be the guinea pig and see


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## round 2

Dagman72 said:


> Go on and be the guinea pig and see


Dont tempt me !! Since i have never run clomid in the past saving the stuff i have for another day and doing DAA is better than nothing though

God im talking myself into it already:lol:


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## henryv

> "I tried PA's Testforce in PCT after a Havoc cycle, literally just finishing up the tub now. I used it day 1 of PCT with AI Post Cycle Therapy and for me personally this is the quickest that the boys have been back in the game so to speak, i'm not putting that purely down to TF but my gut feel is it made the difference"


http://www.thesuppsforum.com/showthread.php?141-D-Aspartic-Acid-100g-only-%A319.99!&p=1714&viewfull=1#post1714



> "1 tub should suffice but hey why not buy 2 or 3 or 4 the stuff is gold everyone of my buddies that has used it including me loves it. "


http://www.prohormoneforum.com/phf-anonymous-2-0/32768-pct-necessary-3-week-cycle-11-oxo-450mg-day.html#post590349

Another positive and detailed review:

http://www.prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32615-e-pharm-test-force-review.html



> "Libido is off the charts with me , I really like this product. In fact it's so good it could be banned soon....lol"


http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showpost.php?p=2105738&postcount=57



> "I am using DAA as part of my PCT regimen after about 6 months on low/moderate dose test. I began with 3g twice daily of the Performance Edge product for about 2 weeks. I just switched to Test Force at 1 heaping scoop daily (for the last week). I am extremely happy as I have experienced none of the usual "down-time" due to loss of libido or ED. So far I have experienced only a minor decrease in my libido 1 month post-cycle - definitely much less than my typical post-cycle dip. One of the most notable effects has been a substantial increase in my semen volume in correlation with my DAA intake. I would say it is definitely having an observable stimulatory effect on my HPTA. Also, Patrick isn't kidding when he says the powder is virtually tasteless. Great product Patrick!"


http://www.modernfitnessforum.com/showthread.php?4284-E-Pharm-TEST-FORCE-D-Aspartic-Acid-Discussion&p=116420#post116420



> "E-Pharms TestForce:
> 
> My personal opinion on this stuff is that it is a must have in anyone's pct. I don't know for sure you would be able to tell any difference just as a everyday test booster though. That's just personal opinion of course. When it comes to pct, it's quite distinct and noticeable.
> 
> I had basically zero libido by the time I started my DAA supplementation. This is quite common for me from the prohormones and the nolva. I am excited to say that once I started my DAA supplementation my libido came back quickly. It was almost like DAA was the ultimate cure for libido issues during pct!
> 
> Benefits of E-Pharms TestForce for PCT:
> 
> • Libido increase
> 
> • Return of fullness in testicles quickly
> 
> • No drop off in strength
> 
> • Minimal loss in weight
> 
> • Still look like I'm on cycle"


http://www.prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32077-e-pharms-testforce-pct-review.html#post580199



> "I too am running Test Force during PCT at the moment.
> 
> Day 4 of PCT and feeling great also. It usually takes until about the end of week 2 for me to see any increase in libido or enlarging of the boys. But already on day 4 of PCT... yes day 4! Libido is sky high and there as been a noticable increase in the size of meh balls. Also, this Tren cycle had me lethargic as hell had to drink like 4 cups of coffee a day to stay awake. Right now I am feeling very energetic and rested, Outstanding so far."


http://www.prohormoneforum.com/supplement-reviews/32077-e-pharms-testforce-pct-review.html#post580578



> "I feel sympathy for the young bucks, at my advanced age, pussy doesn't attract me like it used to, I do with or without it, but last night I was horny as hell on this e Pharm TestForce. lol"


http://www.prohormoneforum.com/prohormone-forum/32208-your-girlfriend-wife-phs.html#post581932


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## henryv

round 2 said:


> Dont tempt me !! Since i have never run clomid in the past saving the stuff i have for another day and doing DAA is better than nothing though
> 
> God im talking myself into it already:lol:


Nolva and clomid have an advantage over DAA as a solo PCT product in that they are ER antagonists in the breast, meaning that they will protect you from gyno during the period of hormonal readjustment. DAA stacks nicely with a SERM though.


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## Dazza

Well so far im liking it. Obviously early days but i can feel my body responding well to it.


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## hackskii

henryv said:


> TF2 did push one of our testers into supraphysiological testosterone levels, which was pretty impressive.


What is the active ingrediant in TF2, D-Aspartic Acid, or a mild AI?

And, if Lois didnt see effects from D-Aspartic Acid, yet others do is it a issue of quality of product or amount of D-Aspartic Acid?

With that said what products would one recommend in the States for D-Aspartic Acid?

I would not mind trying it, I am very senstive to all chemcials.


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## MarkFranco

Im going to run some DAA alongside nolva and clomid during PCT and probably for a little while after that (I dont know how long the DAA will last but if theres enough for more than 4 weeks then ill use it)

will also be using creatine, vit D, E and C aswell as multi Vit tablet

Got 13 weeks left of this cycle though so along way off yet


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## [email protected]

Been doing some reading on this D-Aspartic Acid, Seems like the yanks think this could cause gyno when using this. Is that really the case?


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## Dazza

Nothing happening here so far, i do have an ai coming and have a serm at hand but i highly doubt anything will happen, bar what i want of course.


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## [email protected]

So is this an alternitive to steriods?


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## Lois_Lane

[email protected] said:


> So is this an alternitive to steriods?


 No.


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## [email protected]

whats its real use then?


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## Lois_Lane

[email protected] said:


> whats its real use then?


 Give your test levels a boost.

If it does this its a great supplement but comparing it to steroids is silly.

Look a very effective young male produces 50mg test per week.

DAA may increase it by lets say 50% giving 75mg test per week.

The average beginner test cycle is 500mg test per week.

You feel me bro?


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## henryv

hackskii said:


> What is the active ingrediant in TF2, D-Aspartic Acid, or a mild AI?
> 
> And, if Lois didnt see effects from D-Aspartic Acid, yet others do is it a issue of quality of product or amount of D-Aspartic Acid?
> 
> With that said what products would one recommend in the States for D-Aspartic Acid?
> 
> I would not mind trying it, I am very senstive to all chemcials.


Two active ingredients in TF2 - DAA-calcium chelate, and sarcosine which serves to potentiate the effects of the DAA (or at least make sure the DAA is maximally effective). The writeup's on the product page.

It may be that steroid use and things like serotonin receptor agonists could blunt the body's response to DAA, and there could potentially be a quality control issue with some suppliers (not saying there is, but L-aspartic and DL-aspartic acid are cheaper to produce).


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## Lois_Lane

Must say Henry, test force 2 looks very good and i will be buying 2 containers of it....and i am normally very tight!


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## hackskii

henryv said:


> Two active ingredients in TF2 - DAA-calcium chelate, and sarcosine which serves to potentiate the effects of the DAA (or at least make sure the DAA is maximally effective). The writeup's on the product page.
> 
> It may be that steroid use and things like serotonin receptor agonists could blunt the body's response to DAA, and there could potentially be a quality control issue with some suppliers (not saying there is, but L-aspartic and DL-aspartic acid are cheaper to produce).


What was the dose the guys took that allowed them to get results from the lab study guys?

Do I follow the label dose or should I do like all bodybuilders do and double that? :lol:

I am very sensitve to drugs and any change in libido, night time erections or what ever I notice even with small doses.

Libido wont make a diffrence, the wife has only given it up twice this year, but hell thats better than last year. :cursing:


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## [email protected]

edit


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## henryv

hackskii said:


> What was the dose the guys took that allowed them to get results from the lab study guys?
> 
> Do I follow the label dose or should I do like all bodybuilders do and double that? :lol:
> 
> I am very sensitve to drugs and any change in libido, night time erections or what ever I notice even with small doses.
> 
> Libido wont make a diffrence, the wife has only given it up twice this year, but hell thats better than last year. :cursing:


It wasn't a clinical study, we just asked a couple of guys to get pre and post blood work. They dosed two servings each day for ten days and then one serving a day for the remainder of the tub (19 days total).


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## BB_999

A replacement for Clomid ................................... my prayers have been answered.


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## hackskii

I doubt it is a replacement for clomid, clomid has much more influence on LH than this stuff, clomid doubles LH output and can increase FSH by up to 50%.

Henry, someone suggested or you did it aided in mood?

Henry, another question.

Was the blood drawn at the same time for both before and after tests?


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## henryv

hackskii said:


> I doubt it is a replacement for clomid, clomid has much more influence on LH than this stuff, clomid doubles LH output and can increase FSH by up to 50%.
> 
> Henry, someone suggested or you did it aided in mood?
> 
> Henry, another question.
> 
> Was the blood drawn at the same time for both before and after tests?


Yes, drawn at the same time. Others have told me it makes them more alert/clearer.


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## hackskii

Cool, I will give that a shot.

So, in that article there was some information on potential for growth hormone boost, is this so?

Would you suggest stacking that with L-Arginine and L-Ornathine as well, or just by itself?

Could always pick up some GHRP-2.....


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## henryv

hackskii said:


> Cool, I will give that a shot.
> 
> So, in that article there was some information on potential for growth hormone boost, is this so?
> 
> Would you suggest stacking that with L-Arginine and L-Ornathine as well, or just by itself?
> 
> Could always pick up some GHRP-2.....


PA wrote the write-up. You can stack it with whatever you like, within reason.


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## glanzav

started my bbs ones today along with gh and pct which im doing and slin 3 times a week will let you all no how it goes


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## dtlv

Am interested in this stuff. The one thing I'd like to see data on though is if the 50% increase in total test transfers to a proportionate increase in free testosterone and how much just gets bound up... length of the rise would be interesting too, and whether a dose effects multiple tesosterone pulses throughtout the day or just the one following supplementation.


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## henryv

kuju said:


> Yup!! Any idea when Testforce 2 may hit the UK? I've been using the original formula and I like it very much. The revised formula seems to make more sense though....





henryv said:


> It may be a while, Predator Nutrition is currently the only UK retailer of E-Pharm, and I think we still have plenty of stock of version 1


Actually I just noticed we're sold out of TestForce. TestForce Two should ship next week, so expect it at Predator in a couple of weeks!


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## henryv

Dan92 said:


> Henryv im oredering som DAA from PREDATOR NUTRITION next week seeing as testforce is out of stock i will probably just buy TCF-1 DAA instead....which out of the two has better feedback though ??
> 
> OHH and i will also be writing a short review on here after ive finished it so keep a look out for it bro


I rep for E-Pharm as well as Predator, so I'm a bit biased. The PP product is a good product, it's sodium d-aspartate which is the same form of DAA used in the Italian human study that showed the increase in test.


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## kuju

henryv said:


> I rep for E-Pharm as well as Predator, so I'm a bit biased. The PP product is a good product, it's sodium d-aspartate which is the same form of DAA used in the Italian human study that showed the increase in test.


Props to you for that response!!



henryv said:


> Actually I just noticed we're sold out of TestForce. TestForce Two should ship next week, so expect it at Predator in a couple of weeks!


Seriously?!! I'm in!! Want anyone to log this?!!! Whatever - i'm getting some.... I very much like the way I feel on Testforce I have to say.


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## kevo

Sorry if mentioned guys, but how much ££ of this and what sort of dosing??


----------



## BBWarehouse

kevo said:


> Sorry if mentioned guys, but how much ££ of this and what sort of dosing??


The Better Body Sports DAA is £19.99 and lasts for 20 days. This is using 4 caps per day (so 3g's total).

The Italian study used DAA at 3.12g's per day, so you're pretty perfect with that.


----------



## kevo

BBWarehouse said:


> The Better Body Sports DAA is £19.99 and lasts for 20 days. This is using 4 caps per day (so 3g's total).
> 
> The Italian study used DAA at 3.12g's per day, so you're pretty perfect with that.


Ta pal.


----------



## BetterBody

Glad you had such good results! Unfortunately there has been a lot of bunk DAA on the market which is why we make sure every batch is tested. Hopefully everybody else enjoys our DAA as much as you did!


----------



## Dazza

Im really enjoying the strength gains im getting, doms is killing me from yesterdays session.


----------



## BBWarehouse

Good to see Better Body Sports on here - great sups


----------



## BillC

Curently using Better Body DAA and it great, fantastic best supp ever!!!

My address for complimentary samples can be sent via pm :lol:

Seriously, it does seems to be working, giving me a feel good vibe, hard to explain.


----------



## frowningbudda

Might have to chuck some in for PCT in a few weeks.


----------



## MarkFranco

What brands would people reccomend getting ill probably be buying from BBW and dont want to pay lots (tight bugger)

I want it for PCT


----------



## dougiet

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-Pharmaceutical-DAA-D-Aspartic-Acid-100grams-/220676088487?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item336151e2a7

found this guys


----------



## BBWarehouse

BillC said:


> Seriously, it does seems to be working, giving me a feel good vibe, hard to explain.


Glad to hear it's working so well for you!



ruaidhri said:


> might be gettin some for my pct. is the better body brand the best? how much has it been shown to raise natty free test again?
> 
> as well as general feeling of wellbeing do you have increased libido aswell? you're using this on pct aren't you? if you are, are you finding recovery any easier?


The original Italian study was 48% from memory - over 12 days of use, on 3.12g per day, in healthy adult males.

Most people on the forums have tended to find they've recovered a little faster, and felt "better" - i.e. slightly higher libido, slightly improved mood - which would make sense if it's increasing natural test.

In terms of brands, Better Body Sports have a great reputation in the States and there's lots of reviews out there for their other products like C-Bolic, Complete PCT etc. As above, they batch test every run too. Their website's here if you're curious about them:

http://www.betterbodysports.com/



MarkFranco said:


> What brands would people reccomend getting ill probably be buying from BBW and dont want to pay lots (tight bugger)
> 
> I want it for PCT


Better Body Sports has been getting some great feedback - e.g. this thread lol  It's also better value than most of the DAA I've seen at £19.99 for a 20 day supply. A lot of DAA products only supply the 12 days as per the study.


----------



## kuju

henryv said:


> Actually I just noticed we're sold out of TestForce. TestForce Two should ship next week, so expect it at Predator in a couple of weeks!


Hey Henry....any idea when the TF2 will be arriving? I'm quite keen to give this a go


----------



## henryv

kuju said:


> Hey Henry....any idea when the TF2 will be arriving? I'm quite keen to give this a go


We should have the full E-Pharm lineup, including TestForce 2, in stock either next week or the week after.


----------



## mrmasive

BBWarehouse said:


> Better Body Sports has been getting some great feedback - e.g. this thread lol  It's also better value than most of the DAA I've seen at £19.99 for a 20 day supply. A lot of DAA products only supply the 12 days as per the study.


Is plain DAA less effective than something like Testforce because it doesn't contain chelated calcium??


----------



## henryv

mrmasive said:


> Is plain DAA less effective than something like Testforce because it doesn't contain chelated calcium??


Bear in mind the inherent bias in the answers you'll receive. I rep E-Pharm, so I'm biased towards TestForce. Bodybuilding Warehouse doesn't sell TestForce, but does sell BBS DAA, so will be biased towards them.


----------



## mrmasive

I suppose honesty is a bit much to ask of a rep :lol: :tongue:


----------



## henryv

mrmasive said:


> I suppose honesty is a bit much to ask of a rep :lol: :tongue:


My answer was very honest.


----------



## mrmasive

I suppose honesty re a product they do not have the sole rights to retail or are not competing against another seller of a similar product is a bit much to ask of a rep :lol: :tongue:



henryv said:


> My answer was very honest.


lol it was, but it didn't answer my question. I'm just gonna have to try em both :whistling:


----------



## henryv

mrmasive said:


> I suppose honesty re a product they do not have the sole rights to retail or are not competing against another seller of a similar product is a bit much to ask of a rep :lol: :tongue:
> 
> lol it was, but it didn't answer my question. I'm just gonna have to try em both :whistling:


The first DAA to hit the bbing market was bulk DAA powder, which is very insoluble and can be gritty to try and swill down in a drink.

The BBS product avoids the grittiness problem by capping the product. It's also pretty cheap, and I'm sure it's effective.

TestForce is very soluble, which means it's not just easier to drink, but may be more bioavailable as well. The new version has an extra ingredient as well, to increase the effects. It's a little more expensive though.

That's about as impartial as I can get, hope it helps.


----------



## Bulkamania

So would this stuff work for people my age too then? (18)

Sounds good if it can really up your test by that much.


----------



## hackskii

I will get flamed for this.....................

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ProfDrAndro

Bulkamania said:


> So would this stuff work for people my age too then? (18)
> 
> Sounds good if it can really up your test by that much.


you can up your test to natural top > YOUR TEST should already be at the TOPs (suppose you did not trash your HTPA with prohormones yet)

ProfDrAndro, head of the SuppVersity

@ http://suppversity.blogspot.com


----------



## BBWarehouse

mrmasive said:


> Is plain DAA less effective than something like Testforce because it doesn't contain chelated calcium??


I haven't tried both mate - the original study was based on simple DAA, so you know the BBS product "does what it says on the tin".

Is the chelated version better? We'll have to wait for the reviews and / or if decent study data comes out.

I'd try whichever one took your fancy more - both manufacturers have a good reputation


----------



## BBWarehouse

Bulkamania said:


> So would this stuff work for people my age too then? (18)
> 
> Sounds good if it can really up your test by that much.


Personally I'd leave it.

Not because you're 18 and you're test is already very high.....but because at 18 there were SOOOOOO many other factors that I could have got right that would have led to awesome results.

E.g. tieing diet down, really consistant training, less nights out with the lads after rugby lol.....

I'd focus on making sure everything's nailed before considering it. There's a huge amount trying simple changes to diet or training programs (e.g. trying out German Volume, HIT etc.) can bring.


----------



## Dazza

So the bbs stuff is just pure daa, nothing else added?


----------



## henryv

BBWarehouse said:


> I haven't tried both mate - the original study was based on simple DAA


The study was done using sodium d-aspartate, it was a commercial product called Dadavit.


----------



## B-lean

Finished my cycle of better body sports D ASPARTIC ACID. for me this product worked very well to induce labido,worked better than clomid for me and without the sides. i got a few zits and slightly greasy skin from it but it been a stressful few weeks for me anyway so mite just be a coincidence on that front. would definatly use it for pct instead of clomid. It didnt raise my strength levels, but hey it got me rollox working full throttle so thumbs up to better body sports for this one!!


----------



## hackskii

I think I will try it.

I am in the States, does anyone have a link to the good stuff or the stuff that bumps T?

I will buy it today.


----------



## henryv

hackskii said:


> I think I will try it.
> 
> I am in the States, does anyone have a link to the good stuff or the stuff that bumps T?
> 
> I will buy it today.


=&view[category_id]=&query=aspartic]link


----------



## hackskii

henryv said:


> =&view[category_id]=&query=aspartic]link


Aw man, reps, and thanks...........I cant wait to try it, also going to buy some branch chain amino acids too, never really looked into those at all, but now I am going to buy those as well.

Totally affordable.................sweet...............thanks

Do you have a link to those?

Will it make a diffrence which ones?


----------



## D92

hackskii will you please write a review after you have used the d-aspartic acid bro it would great to hear what you think of it


----------



## danny1871436114701

hackskii said:


> Aw man, reps, and thanks...........I cant wait to try it, also going to buy some branch chain amino acids too, never really looked into those at all, but now I am going to buy those as well.
> 
> Totally affordable.................sweet...............thanks
> 
> Do you have a link to those?
> 
> Will it make a diffrence which ones?


My favourite aminos is Scivation xtend and I was taking 6 scoops intra workout aided recovery very well


----------



## hackskii

D92 said:


> hackskii will you please write a review after you have used the d-aspartic acid bro it would great to hear what you think of it


Buying now and for sure will comment on its effectiveness.

Remember I am at the compromised age of 51 years young and am very sensitive to gear and meds.

If it works I will endourse, if not, I will flame.................Just saying..........


----------



## hackskii

Bought double amount

will give to my identical twin brother winger

if it works then the board will know

if not then board will know

With the twin in the mix, all will be known.......

Have not let him know he got some free stuff...............

The BCAAS's he will have to buy his own stuff:lol:


----------



## kuju

I used the Testforce version...got good results I thought. I may try and get bloodwork done when the Testforce 2 comes out.

I definintely approve of this stuff - especially combined with an AI. Made me feel decidedly.... :bounce:


----------



## D92

feel decidedly ?????


----------



## Hendrix

Was thinking of stacking Test force 2, when it comes available at PN, with X-factor.

Or could that be a waste of money/time? Thoughts.


----------



## henryv

hendrix said:


> Was thinking of stacking Test force 2, when it comes available at PN.


Should be here by Monday last I heard, so I imagine it will be up on the site Mon/Tues.


----------



## kuju

D92 said:


> feel decidedly ?????


"bouncy" :thumb: (cue Mighty Boosh song....)



hendrix said:


> Was thinking of stacking Test force 2, when it comes available at PN, with X-factor.
> 
> Or could that be a waste of money/time? Thoughts.


Hmmm...interesting one that. I'm not sure i really got anything from x factor last time I tried it - mind you Simon Cowell was a tw*t from the start so maybe that's it. Plus I can't sing.

On a more serious note I suspect other things were off when I tried x factor - could be an interesting stack if you respond well to x-factor.



henryv said:


> Should be here by Monday last I heard, so I imagine it will be up on the site Mon/Tues.


Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :beer:

Not that i'm keen or anything......


----------



## dtlv

I haven't read the whole thread on this, but has anyone considered using an AI with this stuff?

The reason I ask is because of the claims in this article that as well as upregulating testosterone, the pathway it uses is also a potent aromatization one - http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dangers-of-D-Aspartic-Acid---Boost-Your-Testosterone-Safely-With-This-Secret!&id=4632468

Just wondering peoples thoughts.


----------



## kuju

Dtlv74 said:


> I haven't read the whole thread on this, but has anyone considered using an AI with this stuff?
> 
> The reason I ask is because of the claims in this article that as well as upregulating testosterone, the pathway it uses is also a potent aromatization one - http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dangers-of-D-Aspartic-Acid---Boost-Your-Testosterone-Safely-With-This-Secret!&id=4632468
> 
> Just wondering peoples thoughts.


There's a fairly scant human evidence base behind this anyway so it's hard to really say anything with any degree of certainty....that said my last batch was used with OTC aromatase inhibitors. I don't think there's any need for things like arimidex - but I do think it's worth being "safe" (as much as you can when taking something that may or may not be what it says it is).

So I would say.....yes.


----------



## D92

ill be using arimidex with mine just to be safe.


----------



## henryv

Dtlv74 said:


> I haven't read the whole thread on this, but has anyone considered using an AI with this stuff?
> 
> The reason I ask is because of the claims in this article that as well as upregulating testosterone, the pathway it uses is also a potent aromatization one - http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dangers-of-D-Aspartic-Acid---Boost-Your-Testosterone-Safely-With-This-Secret!&id=4632468
> 
> Just wondering peoples thoughts.


That's not an article, it's an LG Sciences advert. Stacking DAA with an AI isn't a bad idea though, it may well boost test better than either solo.


----------



## cecil_sensation

bump for later


----------



## dtlv

henryv said:


> That's not an article, it's an LG Sciences advert. Stacking DAA with an AI isn't a bad idea though, it may well boost test better than either solo.


Well technically it's a 'marketing article'... I should know as have written many similar ones myself.

What usage pattern of the AI would people suggest... how long, how intensive etc?


----------



## kuju

Dtlv74 said:


> Well technically it's a 'marketing article'... I should know as have written many similar ones myself.
> 
> What usage pattern of the AI would people suggest... how long, how intensive etc?


Yeah it was clearly aimed at selling forma...whatever it is. That said there are clear journal articles showing a rise in aromotase activity (just not in humans).

Tricky one really isn't it? A good AI could reduce it by 80% - but things like arimidex have their own problems attached.

Who knows...it's all a of a grey area. Personally I use OTC supps - ideally one with resveratrol - at manufacturers stated dose and watch the nips closely! (Well it passes teh time....sometimes i touch them too but I probably shouldn't go into that here :whistling: )


----------



## dtlv

kuju said:


> Yeah it was clearly aimed at selling forma...whatever it is. That said there are clear journal articles showing a rise in aromotase activity (just not in humans).
> 
> Tricky one really isn't it? A good AI could reduce it by 80% - but things like arimidex have their own problems attached.
> 
> Who knows...it's all a of a grey area. Personally I use OTC supps - ideally one with resveratrol - at manufacturers stated dose and watch the nips closely! (Well it passes teh time....sometimes i touch them too but I probably shouldn't go into that here :whistling: )


Yeah I checked his references and also found a couple of similar studies on animal models, each showing a potential aromatization risk.

I would probably use OTC stuff too, although aromatase inhibition is not my strongest subject.

Another thing I found in respect of D-aspartic acid is that it as we age apparently it naturally builds up in cartilage, retinal tissue and teeth and a couple of other tissue types, and in fact testing a sample of one of these tissues for D-aspartic acid is a good way to determine age... however I also read one discussion of data on that that suggested a possibility where supraphysilogical levels of D-aspartic acid may also contribute to the aging of these tissues.

It's just a theory, and it was mentioned not as a conclusion but as a point for further study, but I thought it worth mentioning.


----------



## kuju

Dtlv74 said:


> Yeah I checked his references and also found a couple of similar studies on animal models, each showing a potential aromatization risk.
> 
> I would probably use OTC stuff too, although aromatase inhibition is not my strongest subject.
> 
> Another thing I found in respect of D-aspartic acid is that it as we age apparently it naturally builds up in cartilage, retinal tissue and teeth and a couple of other tissue types, and in fact testing a sample of one of these tissues for D-aspartic acid is a good way to determine age... however I also read one discussion of data on that that suggested a possibility where supraphysilogical levels of D-aspartic acid may also contribute to the aging of these tissues.
> 
> It's just a theory, and it was mentioned not as a conclusion but as a point for further study, but I thought it worth mentioning.


Definitely worth mentioning...... as soon as I get time i'll have a proper pubmed search and see what crops up.

Edit: I must spread some reps around before giving them to Dtlv74 again............. the thought was there!


----------



## hackskii

Wow, interesting I actually have some of the Formadrol Extreme from LG Sciences.

It was sent to me to try out.

Using an AI would be hard to dose, too low and thats not good.

But, I have a free bottle so why not use it?

Got tons of clomid and nolva too.

I think I even have some letro and aromasin left over in the cabnet, along with some AIFM that is crap.

This is going to get real interesting in a short period of time.


----------



## God

Will you run a log Scott? Would be pretty interesting, or maybe blood test results before and after? Be interested to hear how you get on anyhoo...


----------



## kuju

hackskii said:


> Wow, interesting I actually have some of the Formadrol Extreme from LG Sciences.
> 
> It was sent to me to try out.
> 
> Using an AI would be hard to dose, too low and thats not good.
> 
> But, I have a free bottle so why not use it?
> 
> Got tons of clomid and nolva too.
> 
> I think I even have some letro and aromasin left over in the cabnet, along with some AIFM that is crap.
> 
> This is going to get real interesting in a short period of time.


I think doing to aggressive an anti-e regime would be a little over the top....also potentially risky.

Given that most people don't really get supra-physiological raises in T levels I doubt you're going to get ott rises in aromatase. If it's just the aromoatase that's rising then just the letro would be enough wouldn't it?

Just thinkign out loud here......


----------



## henryv

Dtlv74 said:


> I haven't read the whole thread on this, but has anyone considered using an AI with this stuff?
> 
> The reason I ask is because of the claims in this article that as well as upregulating testosterone, the pathway it uses is also a potent aromatization one.
> 
> Just wondering peoples thoughts.


You don't need an AI with DAA. It can be stacked with an OTC AI if you want.

For one thing, the increases in aromatase activity were observed in boars testicles, not humans. For another, testicular aromatase is only responsible for a small fraction of the estrogen in males, most aromatisation is peripheral.


----------



## hilly

im currently speaking to my lecturers at uni to see if i can run my dissatation this year and next on the use of d aspartic acid either on strength/body comp or both.

im hoping they will let me do it.


----------



## round 2

Might give it a try november in november when doing pct may affect results a bit but cant hurt:thumbup1:


----------



## dtlv

henryv said:


> You don't need an AI with DAA. It can be stacked with an OTC AI if you want.
> 
> For one thing, the increases in aromatase activity were observed in boars testicles, not humans. For another, testicular aromatase is only responsible for a small fraction of the estrogen in males, most aromatisation is peripheral.


Cheers for that. Animal models are always controversial... results may or may not be duplicated in humans and testing humans is the only way to know for sure. I can see why the author used the study on boars though as physiologically they serve as useful test subjects for this kind of thing as their rproductive physiology is closer to humans than the more commonly tested rat... the second reason for using pigs would be that the response to this kind of thing is usually exaggerated in pigs compared to humans so it gives a clearer picture of the process... but this of course means that any result in a pig experiment would be expected to demonstrate a greater level of aromatization than humans might find anyway.

Am definitely gonna try this stuff, probably around christmas time.


----------



## sam2012

I might try this stacked with ATD and activate xtreme, see what happens


----------



## hackskii

kuju said:


> I think doing to aggressive an anti-e regime would be a little over the top....also potentially risky.
> 
> Given that most people don't really get supra-physiological raises in T levels I doubt you're going to get ott rises in aromatase. If it's just the aromoatase that's rising then just the letro would be enough wouldn't it?
> 
> Just thinkign out loud here......


Letro is very strong, but I do have the liquid stuff so something like a few drops might be enough to just curb it some.



God said:


> Will you run a log Scott? Would be pretty interesting, or maybe blood test results before and after? Be interested to hear how you get on anyhoo...


For sure, I am super sensitive to my body, being 51 any night time erections, greasy face, improved libido, mood, everything I notice.

Gear affects me big time and I cant use alot of it.

I know nolva protects the nuts when using HCG for leydig cell desensitizing, it is assumed it is estrogen that causes this.

I have all kinds of various SERMS and AI's laying around the house.

I am sure something very small like even 10mg of nolva would work well, but it does tend to lower IGF-1 levels, and elivate SHBG some, might be counter productive but bump LH, so not sure.

I probably will run very low dose aromasin as to me it is pretty weak.

But I shoud run something as I am a bit over weight and have probably more aromatase activity now so an AI would be a good idea.

I also have the fermadrol stuff so I might just use that.

Driving estrogen too low is not a good idea, I get stiff joints on letro and sex drive crashes.


----------



## dougiet

how do you guys take it...its quite a bitter taste i just mix with a lttle water & neck it.


----------



## Double J

Just taken delivery of 2 bottles of the Better Bodies DAA yesterday. Will report back my findings idc.


----------



## hackskii

Day 2 for me.


----------



## benicillin

just a quick Q....

Would d-aspartic be a good sup to run during PCT to help get the body producing natural test again?


----------



## Old but not out

Dtlv74 said:


> Yeah I checked his references and also found a couple of similar studies on animal models, each showing a potential aromatization risk.
> 
> .


A potential aromatization risk? Surely this exists with any increase in testosterone production and is completely independent about how you bring this about (unless of course the increase in T is a direct result of decreased aromatase activity?


----------



## Old but not out

benicillin said:


> just a quick Q....
> 
> Would d-aspartic be a good sup to run during PCT to help get the body producing natural test again?


yes


----------



## benicillin

righto, cheers!


----------



## henryv

kuju said:


> I used the Testforce version...got good results I thought. I may try and get bloodwork done when the Testforce 2 comes out.
> 
> I definintely approve of this stuff - especially combined with an AI. Made me feel decidedly.... :bounce:


TestForce 2 now in stock.


----------



## Brotein

Ordered some from my protein, will be starting tomorrow if it gets delivered then hopefully


----------



## kuju

henryv said:


> TestForce 2 now in stock.


Apparently not....ordered some today but got an email saying you were still waiting for TF2 stock...... 

Hey ho - won't be a long wait i don't think......hope.....


----------



## big_nige

myprotein or testforce 2 ????


----------



## bayliss

when to take d-aspartic acid.morning or evening? starting tcf 1 from primordial performence


----------



## henryv

kuju said:


> Apparently not....ordered some today but got an email saying you were still waiting for TF2 stock......
> 
> Hey ho - won't be a long wait i don't think......hope.....


We were expecting them but for some reason it didn't ship when it was supposed to. We should have them in stock next Friday now (along with the topical joint spray and clearshot concentrate). Sorry bro.



bayliss said:


> when to take d-aspartic acid.morning or evening? starting tcf 1 from primordial performence


Whenever's convenient for you.


----------



## kuju

henryv said:


> We were expecting them but for some reason it didn't ship when it was supposed to. We should have them in stock next Friday now (along with the topical joint spray and clearshot concentrate). Sorry bro.
> 
> Whenever's convenient for you.


No worries; thank you for the heads up mate :thumb:


----------



## aben

Would DAA be okay for a tested athlete to use?


----------



## henryv

aben said:


> Would DAA be okay for a tested athlete to use?


Yes, though you should always check with your sport's governing body.

^ My opinion, not the opinion of Predator Nutrition or E-Pharm. PA's had enough lawsuits.


----------



## aben

I know this is just your opinion....but IF it were okay for a tested athlete to use.....then as a stand alone product to increase test it cant be that effective can it? As in the strength gains people could be looking for from it?


----------



## henryv

aben said:


> I know this is just your opinion....but IF it were okay for a tested athlete to use.....then as a stand alone product to increase test it cant be that effective can it? As in the strength gains people could be looking for from it?


Taking steroids is banned. Taking aromatase inhibitors is usually banned. Taking DAA isn't. It's not a comment on the effectiveness of the product.


----------



## skaman007

big_nige said:


> myprotein or testforce 2 ????


 wow myprotien are selling daa 250g for £20;;;;thats over 80 daily servings of 3g per day...4 times more than bbs for the same price??????????????? is it ok ?


----------



## hackskii

I got mine for 11 bucks for 100 grams, I actually like the light lemon taste with my 15 cal orange juice.

A bit gritty but I dont mind at all.


----------



## BBWarehouse

Banning supplements is not based on how strong they are - it's based on someone, somewhere, getting a bee in their bonnet and nagging the right people to ban it.


----------



## BBWarehouse

skaman007 said:


> wow myprotien are selling daa 250g for £20;;;;thats over 80 daily servings of 3g per day...4 times more than bbs for the same price??????????????? is it ok ?


The BBS is in caps, so very easy and convenient to use. No getting the scales out, guess work on whether 3g's is a "teaspoon" or finding a small enough scooper.

Capping a product always adds cost, the BBS was one of the first products of it's kind to hit the market, and has great reviews to match.

We should have a powder version of DAA within the next couple weeks - however we'd still recommend the caps for simplicity.


----------



## hackskii

Powder rocks

Well,'until it shows otherwise.


----------



## aben

BBWarehouse said:


> Banning supplements is not based on how strong they are - it's based on someone, somewhere, getting a bee in their bonnet and nagging the right people to ban it.


If a product doesnt raise your test enough to show up on a test though then surely it cannot be that effective as a stand alone supp? I can see how it would work if you have naturally low test or using it as part of pct...but for someone like myself who is subject to testing would it be worth it?


----------



## kuju

aben said:


> If a product doesnt raise your test enough to show up on a test though then surely it cannot be that effective as a stand alone supp? I can see how it would work if you have naturally low test or using it as part of pct...but for someone like myself who is subject to testing would it be worth it?


I think DAA is still new enough not to be something routinely tested for. Also the evidence base around it's ability to raise Test levels or have any kind of performance enhancing effect, is still very scant indeed. Certainly compared to say anabolic steroids, various peptide hormones, EPO, stimulants, etc etc....

I would say if you're being tested then it's probably a good idea not to take anything that could radically alter your testosterone: epitestosterone ratio. So basically any test booster; evidence based or not. Depends who's testing you of course..and why...and how much they have to spend on testing you. (PIED drug testing is extremely expensive)


----------



## henryv

aben said:


> If a product doesnt raise your test enough to show up on a test though then surely it cannot be that effective as a stand alone supp? I can see how it would work if you have naturally low test or using it as part of pct...but for someone like myself who is subject to testing would it be worth it?


As Kuju alluded, (steroid) testing in sports doesn't test absolute testosterone levels; it compares testosterone levels to epitestosterone levels. If you dope (inject test), it throws off the ratio of test:epitest (and you fail). If you raise it naturally with DAA, both remain in balance.

I'm not going to claim it's as effective on performance as injecting test though, that would be silly.


----------



## kuju

It seems to me that the main benefit of DAA is keeping people at the top of their natural range rather than pushing them into supra-physiological levels as you would with the use of anabolic steroids for instance.

Some people may end up going over what would be considered the natural range for them (whatever that may be, since it seems to change dependeing on the testing lab) but it seems (based on what i've found so far) that isn't the case for most.

The benefit then is perhaps....making the most of natural resources?

Assuming levels of SHBG are controlled in a way that doesn't cause an over-production response. Or that aromatisation doesn't interfere in the process.

The SHBG one is interesting actually......


----------



## skaman007

BBWarehouse said:


> The BBS is in caps, so very easy and convenient to use. No getting the scales out, guess work on whether 3g's is a "teaspoon" or finding a small enough scooper.
> 
> Capping a product always adds cost, the BBS was one of the first products of it's kind to hit the market, and has great reviews to match.
> 
> We should have a powder version of DAA within the next couple weeks - however we'd still recommend the caps for simplicity.


 i dont see how you can justify..a product being 4x dearer cos its in a cap!!!not rocket science to measure 3g powder for 4 x cheaper


----------



## round 2

skaman007 said:


> i dont see how you can justify..a product being 4x dearer cos its in a cap!!!not rocket science to measure 3g powder for 4 x cheaper


black and white.reps


----------



## kuju

skaman007 said:


> i dont see how you can justify..a product being 4x dearer cos its in a cap!!!not rocket science to measure 3g powder for 4 x cheaper


Fair point....it does seem weird that it's so much cheaper from my protein. Is it just the cheaper form of DAA? (Can't remember what it was called....maybe the L form rather than teh D?)


----------



## Old but not out

kuju said:


> It seems to me that the main benefit of DAA is keeping people at the top of their natural range rather than pushing them into supra-physiological levels as you would with the use of anabolic steroids for instance.
> 
> Some people may end up going over what would be considered the natural range for them (whatever that may be, since it seems to change dependeing on the testing lab) but it seems (based on what i've found so far) that isn't the case for most.
> 
> The benefit then is perhaps....making the most of natural resources?
> 
> Assuming levels of SHBG are controlled in a way that doesn't cause an over-production response. Or that aromatisation doesn't interfere in the process.
> 
> The SHBG one is interesting actually......


An increase in T without an increase in E will generally drive SHBG down


----------



## skaman007

kuju said:


> Fair point....it does seem weird that it's so much cheaper from my protein. Is it just the cheaper form of DAA? (Can't remember what it was called....maybe the L form rather than teh D?)


 its just plain old daa ,the same form used by bbs ..epharm etc..the same form used in clinical trials....just like creatine mono .sum brands charge outrageous costs for plain old mono,,,in a cap or fancy branding.or you can shop aROUND AND GET IT CHEAP AS....


----------



## henryv

skaman007 said:


> its just plain old daa ,the same form used by bbs ..epharm etc..the same form used in clinical trials....just like creatine mono .sum brands charge outrageous costs for plain old mono,,,in a cap or fancy branding.or you can shop aROUND AND GET IT CHEAP AS....


It is NOT the same as the form of DAA used by E-Pharm.


----------



## skaman007

henryv said:


> It is NOT the same as the form of DAA used by E-Pharm.


 it says on ther product aT MYPROTIEN 100% D-APARTIC ACID.......WAT IS DIFFERENT BOUT EPHARMS?THE FACT THAT IT dissolves better ??IS THAT IT?OOPS scuse the caps on


----------



## myprotein

kuju said:


> Fair point....it does seem weird that it's so much cheaper from my protein. Is it just the cheaper form of DAA? (Can't remember what it was called....maybe the L form rather than teh D?)


Hi,

Our d-aspartic acid is not a lesser quality product, we just offer it in its bulk form without the fuss (like what we have been doing with other supplements for years).

MP


----------



## skaman007

skaman007 said:


> it says on ther product aT MYPROTIEN 100% D-APARTIC ACID.......WAT IS DIFFERENT BOUT EPHARMS?THE FACT THAT IT dissolves better ??IS THAT IT?OOPS scuse the caps on


 yup thort so,,so buy epharms for 5 or 6 x the cost cos it has calcium chelate to make it disslove better....again the extra cost no way merits the benefits


----------



## henryv

skaman007 said:


> it says on ther product aT MYPROTIEN 100% D-APARTIC ACID.......WAT IS DIFFERENT BOUT EPHARMS?THE FACT THAT IT dissolves better ??IS THAT IT?OOPS scuse the caps on


There are several forms of DAA:

Plain DAA, such as in the BBS and MyProtein products (and other bulk suppliers).

Sodium D-Aspartate, which is sold in a liquid solution as in Primordial Performance's TCF-1 (sodium d-aspartate was used in the human study referenced earlier in the thread)

D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate, which was developed by PA and marketed by E-Pharm as TestForce (and now TestForce 2). It's not only more soluble, which likely makes it more bioavailable compared to the bulk powders (which are gritty, and may sit undigested to some degree in the colon), but also delivers a healthy dose of calcium per dose. TestForce 2 also includes the ingredient sarcosine, which activates the glycine site of the NMDA receptor, ensuring that the DAA is maximally effective.


----------



## henryv

skaman007 said:


> yup thort so,,so buy epharms for 5 or 6 x the cost cos it has calcium chelate to make it disslove better....again the extra cost no way merits the benefits


Patrick Arnold is an innovator in the industry. He brought you 4-AD, 1-AD, 6-oxo, 11-oxo, and introduced geranamine (1,3-dimethylamine), phenibut and other ingredients to the supplement market. He's taken DAA and developed the most scientifically advanced and probably most effective delivery method - TestForce 2. We've also backed our product with blood tests, and have dozens of positive reviews all over the forums.


----------



## skaman007

henryv said:


> Patrick Arnold is an innovator in the industry. He brought you 4-AD, 1-AD, 6-oxo, 11-oxo, and introduced geranamine (1,3-dimethylamine), phenibut and other ingredients to the supplement market. He's taken DAA and developed the most scientifically advanced and probably most effective delivery method - TestForce 2. We've also backed our product with blood tests, and have dozens of positive reviews all over the forums.


 ok thanks for that.....if the study only used sodium d-apartic acid such as primordial performances has...how do you, or myprotien, bbs etc know your products will hav the same effect


----------



## skaman007

skaman007 said:


> ok thanks for that.....if the study only used sodium d-apartic acid such as primordial performances has...how do you, or myprotien, bbs etc know your products will hav the same effect


 ok test force 2 does look a better option than plain old bulk daa....just a case of peoples finances i guess as to what they choose...can bulk daa powder be added to your daILY Protien shake? miXed with whey aND MILK?


----------



## henryv

skaman007 said:


> ok thanks for that.....if the study only used sodium d-apartic acid such as primordial performances has...how do you, or myprotien, bbs etc know your products will hav the same effect


D-Aspartic Acid is well studied in animals. With sodium d-aspartate, the sodium and DAA molecules will separate in vivo, it's the DAA that has the effects. This is the same with our d-aspartate calcium chelate. The chelate is far more soluble (which should make it more bioavailable) and much more stable over a wide PH range (like is found in the gut).


----------



## henryv

skaman007 said:


> ok test force 2 does look a better option than plain old bulk daa....just a case of peoples finances i guess as to what they choose...can bulk daa powder be added to your daILY Protien shake? miXed with whey aND MILK?


I agree. There's room for both on the market. Bulk makes a cost-effective option for people on a budget. I think TestForce 2 is fairly affordable though, it's comparable in price to most test boosters (and with more science behind it).


----------



## dixie normus

kuju said:


> Fair point....it does seem weird that it's so much cheaper from my protein. Is it just the cheaper form of DAA? (Can't remember what it was called....maybe the L form rather than teh D?)


I can assure you that the wholesale price of DAA is very low:cool:


----------



## Brotein

If any of you intend on buying from myprotein, make sure you purchase one of their small scoops, as they do not include one in the packed, nor do they tell you that you need one to measure out the amount, as I learnt the hard way just had to go out and purchase some digital scales to weigh it out.


----------



## Silverchair

when is the best time to have DAA??? does it matter if you have it first thing, pre or post workout, or before bed?

thanks


----------



## Dazza

For me 1g pre bed/post bed then 1g 30 minutes pwo, got some great pumps in the gym when used along side sp250/no shotgun.

No products are nice but combined with the daa i felt awesome.


----------



## hackskii

I bought 100 grams powder for 11 bucks, that is super cheap, totally easy to use with the scooper in the tub.

It tasts nice too, a bit gritty but not a bad taste at all.

I take mine in the morning for convience.

Day 5, still waiting for something to happen.


----------



## D92

tbh hacks if you havent felt any thing yet you probably wont feel anything at all what one did you buy ??? link ??


----------



## hackskii

I bought mine here and bang there is the new stuff testforce2, that wasnt there a week ago.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/search?query=daa&view%5Bcategory_id%5D=&view%5Bmfg_id%5D=

Cheap too.

The study suggested 12 days, so I got another week to wait for the results.

If nothing happens I am going to mage dose D, E, and take a very mild AI low dose.

I am gyno prone so I dont want to change anything right now as I am testing this stuff on myself to see if I notice anything.

If it works, it works, if it doesnt, it doesnt.

Either way, I have not spent alot of money so in the interest of being curious, its all good.


----------



## big_nige

If nothing happens I am going to mage dose D, E, and take a very mild AI low dose.

could you expand on that abit hackskii ???


----------



## hackskii

Yah, D helps men have higher testosterone production, actually I think it is like 128% higher when you sun on a daily basis, summer times seem to have higher testosterone levels.

Some guys dont do well when defiecient in D when they use HCG, a TRT doctor suggested this.

So, if lets say I was defiecent in D (many are) then this may hinder results, if for any other reason other than lowering T levels anyway.

Vitamin E supports among other things leydig cells in the testicles, so that would be a good idea anyway,

The AI is an aromatase inhibitor, I do have some belly fat and my age @ 51 probably hinder test production, so my ratio of T to E probably is not as good as a young mans, thus skewing results as mentioned earlier it may have more aromitization that someone posted.

I have some slight gyno flair ups, not sure why but last cycle it comes and goes.

I am dieting down now and gyno symptoms are lessened which makes sense as less aromatase activity would equate to less serum estrogen in my system.

But nothing will be added till way past the 12 days that I want to do nothing as to say it is this alone.

If at the end of a month as I have two month supply.

I also notice I have to diet all the time to keep or maintain bodyweight, I could probably gain 10 pounds in a week if I let go and overfeed.

Any time I am at a stable weight and go on cycle I have to diet to slow the weight gain.

So, if I notice a marked gain in weight I know something is going on as well.


----------



## dougiet

yeah im 52 and i reckon we cant take as much of anything.. as the younger guys..even the oral gear i found 20mg d-bol was just about right as you say its all to do with E ratio


----------



## myprotein

dixie normus said:


> I can assure you that the wholesale price of DAA is very low:cool:


This is correct. We are not cheap, the other companies you mention are expensive.

MP


----------



## Cam93

myprotein.co.uk said:


> This is correct. We are not cheap, the other companies you mention are expensive.
> 
> MP


is MP selling anyform of DAA or a good reccommended Natty test booster?


----------



## Dazza

For what it's worth i've taken the bbs and have just started mp daa today.

Initial impression is the mp is just as good, and easy to take so even plain water will suffice.

Good effort mp, i'll have to grab another bag at some point great for those that have hit a plateau, today the quad machine was 115kg which i've never managed before.

So as you can imagine im a big fan of the stuff.


----------



## D92

dazza how did you find the bbs DAA mate im thinking of getting some ??


----------



## Dazza

Very good, but personally id stick with mp, it's 60g vs 250g for the same price so a no brainer.

Unless you're 100% against using a powder, but honestly it has very little taste, all you need is a 1g scoop and away you go.


----------



## BBWarehouse

We should have powdered D-Aspartic Acid coming in shortly - it has already started production, so we'll be able to offer people both caps and powder at a great price with free shipping.

Hopefully this will offer people a couple different options and they can choose the best one for them


----------



## Dazza

Im assuming that your daa along with the cissus will be a part of your value range?


----------



## BBWarehouse

D92 said:


> dazza how did you find the bbs DAA mate im thinking of getting some ??


It gets some great reviews and was the first DAA supplement to really become popular in the UK. Most of the reviews in this thread are on it


----------



## Perfect Animal

I heard that the best time for taking DAA is before bed ?

Is it true ?

I was using in the morning, but will change for evenings


----------



## hackskii

Not sure but if it takes 12 days then I would think it wouldnt matter, but magic happens during the night and test levels are highest in the morning, so not sure.


----------



## Dazza

I just take 1g pre/post bed and 1g around 1 hour/30 minutes before i hit the gym.

Works well for me.


----------



## D92

*Question for Myprotein*

On your site it says you recommend taking a week off after using daa for 12 days...why ??


----------



## Perfect Animal

Sweet Jesus, what happened last night was ****in disaster.

I woke up in the middle of night, about 1:00, and realized that something is wrong.

I had a "wet dreams" I realized that my bed is wet from my cum. My wife is now bad at me, coz she thinks that I have a erotic dreams :-D

The things that I'm wonder is that I was reading researches, and they show that LH level is highest in the middle of the night.


----------



## D92

haha quality :lol:

What brand are you using ?


----------



## Perfect Animal

I bought it from local store, it was packed in silver bag, like steroid raw powder :-D

Label shows : Shanghai Passiono Int'l Co LTD


----------



## Dazza

http://www.passiono.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/index.html


----------



## hackskii

Dazzza said:


> http://www.passiono.com/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/index.html


Wow, that link is pretty crazy.


----------



## Dazza

Indeed


----------



## D92

cant see DAA on that site ???


----------



## Perfect Animal

I dont know is it good brand, or not. But I think that works for me fine. I was totally blocked after last AAS cycle. Made PCT as hackskii shows in other thread. After PCT my libido was very poor, and I hadn't any sex desire. While Im using DAA, my libido grown up, and I feel that I need sex ;-)

Also another thing - as I said before - terrible experience from last night is a best fact for me that DAA works


----------



## kuju

myprotein.co.uk said:


> This is correct. We are not cheap, the other companies you mention are expensive.
> 
> MP


You also have a broken website! I've just tried ordering some of your DAA and after an extremely frustrating half hour convincing it that my home and work addresses were different places.......(which I did)...it seemed to stall at the last hurdle.

I got to the payment page - filled in card details - tried to press "Place Order" and......nada. The button doesn't work it seems. I'll try again later as i'm just getting the DAA in for way future use anyway...thought you and others should know though (unless of course it's just me??)


----------



## myprotein

kuju said:


> You also have a broken website! I've just tried ordering some of your DAA and after an extremely frustrating half hour convincing it that my home and work addresses were different places.......(which I did)...it seemed to stall at the last hurdle.
> 
> I got to the payment page - filled in card details - tried to press "Place Order" and......nada. The button doesn't work it seems. I'll try again later as i'm just getting the DAA in for way future use anyway...thought you and others should know though (unless of course it's just me??)


There was an issue with the banks payment gateway for 3D secure at around that time this morning hence the issue. This was fixed by the bank at 9:45am. Please try again.

MP


----------



## kuju

myprotein.co.uk said:


> There was an issue with the banks payment gateway for 3D secure at around that time this morning hence the issue. This was fixed by the bank at 9:45am. Please try again.
> 
> MP


Ah....righto!! Thank you for getting back to me 

(Apologies for hijacking the thread slightly...!!!)


----------



## big_nige

thanks hacks!!! gunna grab daa, vit d and e! whats doses of d and e?? also im wanting to go for a full on natty test boost what else would u recommend?


----------



## D92

just ordered some BBS d-aspartic acid and will be writing a full review after use........keep an eye out for it


----------



## hackskii

big_nige said:


> thanks hacks!!! gunna grab daa, vit d and e! whats doses of d and e?? also im wanting to go for a full on natty test boost what else would u recommend?


400iu a day is a typical dose, if you were to eat a couple of eggs a day (50iu), a cod liver oil tab, and some salmon each week you would be about right.

400iu a day is fine, you can get away with more as well.

1000iu E is fine ED.


----------



## Double J

am on 8th day of mine and not a great deal to report tbh. Possibly, if anything, a very moderate rise in libido but nothing to write home about at this stage. Still time though......


----------



## Old but not out

I am not quite sure what people are expecting in terms of feelings etc? It is "only" a 40% rise most people exhibit changes greater than that over a single day. You may get an increase in libido but not a lot else. It won t be the supercharged-godliness you feel on 500mg of test a week.

The point of a product like D-asapartic acid is that long term it may influence recovery and protein metabolism especially if you train "too" hard and drive your LH/test levels down.

I have seen both saliva and blood results recently for d-asp which convinces me it does work in terms of t production - wether this makes a major difference to performance etc will be revealed by time - but will need long term (months) of use


----------



## anabolic lion

i got some bbw daa , am i right in thinking 4 caps is 750mg ?


----------



## acer72

Would it better just taking MP daa as it is cheaper than testforce 2


----------



## BBWarehouse

anabolic lion said:


> i got some bbw daa , am i right in thinking 4 caps is 750mg ?


1 cap = 750mg

4 Caps = 3g's which is the recommended daily dose 

The tub should last 20 days, so longer than the original 12 day study at the same 3g dose.


----------



## BBWarehouse

Has anyone got any reviews / studies on going OVER or UNDER 3g's per day?

Just curious to see if there's a more pronounced effect at above 3g's, or if you can get away with less than 3g's and still see the same benefits.


----------



## hackskii

I am taking over 3 grams every morning.

I think I am day 10 right now.


----------



## BBWarehouse

hackskii said:


> I am taking over 3 grams every morning.
> 
> I think I am day 10 right now.


How many g's are you taking? What have the results been like and did you try the straight 3 gs dose previously?


----------



## hackskii

Just 3+G's morning dose ED.

Just waiting for the magic to happen.

I am keeping an open mind.


----------



## henryv

kuju said:


> I used the Testforce version...got good results I thought. I may try and get bloodwork done when the Testforce 2 comes out.
> 
> I definintely approve of this stuff - especially combined with an AI. Made me feel decidedly.... :bounce:


TestForce 2 now in stock (for reals this time).


----------



## God

hackskii said:


> Just 3+G's morning dose ED.
> 
> Just waiting for the magic to happen.
> 
> I am keeping an open mind.


Notice anything yet?


----------



## hackskii

God said:


> Notice anything yet?


No not really anything to write home about.

I did notice a bit more night time wood, and some of my dreams are to do with sex, but not too much more than normal.

No real libido boost, no greasy face, I added in a good amount of vitamin d recently and vitamin E.

I just upped the dose some, but I did get it pretty cheap so I bought two bottles and am 3/4 the way through with the first one.


----------



## kuju

henryv said:


> TestForce 2 now in stock (for reals this time).


Awesome - I've got some waiting to come to me - any chance of seeing if that order has been completed now? I ordered that and some triazole but took the triazole whilst waiting for the TF2 to turn up.

No massive rush - I need to hold fire so I can log Recov for a few weeks anyway....but i'd kinda like my tub before it sells out! :thumb:


----------



## predatorN

Yes that order ships today mate.


----------



## D92

ive been using for a week now and only change i had was that my face felt greasy.


----------



## God

hackskii said:


> No not really anything to write home about.
> 
> I did notice a bit more night time wood, and some of my dreams are to do with sex, but not too much more than normal.
> 
> No real libido boost, no greasy face, I added in a good amount of vitamin d recently and vitamin E.
> 
> I just upped the dose some, but I did get it pretty cheap so I bought two bottles and am 3/4 the way through with the first one.


Ok thanks well keep us updated


----------



## kuju

predatorN said:


> Yes that order ships today mate.


Awesome - thank you! :beer:


----------



## hackskii

God said:


> Ok thanks well keep us updated


I will, should last another month anyway, so any change you will know.


----------



## D92

I have a sneaky suspicion that DAA might actually increase estrogen more than it increases testosterone.


----------



## henryv

D92 said:


> I have a sneaky suspicion that DAA might actually increase estrogen more than it increases testosterone.


On what do you base that?


----------



## D92

when my estrogen gets high i get a greasy face and i got a greasy face with DAA and i have yet to see any bloodwork that all the supp reps throw around to include estrogen levels...i wonder why that is.


----------



## ojaysmoke

anyone used this during pct? ive heard of guys using DAA instead of hcg and saying it brings the nuts back straight away


----------



## henryv

D92 said:


> when my estrogen gets high i get a greasy face and i got a greasy face with DAA and i have yet to see any bloodwork that all the supp reps throw around to include estrogen levels...i wonder why that is.


Maybe because it wasn't included in the blood work package they used?



ojaysmoke said:


> anyone used this during pct? ive heard of guys using DAA instead of hcg and saying it brings the nuts back straight away


Loads of people in the US. I can link you to feedback on DAA in PCT, but it's on testforce specifically.


----------



## ojaysmoke

Loads of people in the US. I can link you to feedback on DAA in PCT, but it's on testforce specifically.


----------



## D92

hahaha how convenient.


----------



## D92

and as a supp company dont you think you should pay for bood tests anyway anyway to prove it does what your saying it does ?


----------



## henryv

ojaysmoke said:


> i havent read the whole thread but i assume testforce a brand of DAA? if so please link me to the feedback. also is testforce available in the UK?


Yes mate, on both counts. Here's the >feedback< and you can buy it >here<.



D92 said:


> hahaha how convenient.


tinfoilhat.jpg


----------



## hackskii

ojaysmoke said:


> anyone used this during pct? ive heard of guys using DAA instead of hcg and saying it brings the nuts back straight away


Using DAA instead of HCG post cycle is just stupid.

It does not do what HCG does, when guys are shut down use HCG, it works for what it is used for.

I am not impressed with DAA personally, and during PCT when androgens are very low, I am quite sure with testicular atophy, you would be foolish to replace HCG with DAA.

DAA is not offering bolus stimulation of LH to the testicles to reverse testicular atrophy and cause testicular function.

Anyone believe that and I got a bridge to sell you. :lol:


----------



## henryv

D92 said:


> and as a supp company dont you think you should pay for bood tests anyway anyway to prove it does what your saying it does ?


We have.


----------



## D92

why didnt you include estrogen then ?


----------



## henryv

hackskii said:


> DAA is not offering bolus stimulation of LH to the testicles to reverse testicular atrophy and cause testicular function.


Actually it does work to raise test both by stimulating GNRH production and by directly stimulating the leydig cells to produce testosterone (through increasing cAMP). Check out the study for more info on the MOA. It's not a "one-shot fix" like hCG though.

I'm not advocating using DAA as the sole PCT agent, but it works nicely in conjunction with a SERM.


----------



## D92

D92 said:


> why didnt you include estrogen then ?


----------



## henryv

D92 said:


> why didnt you include estrogen then ?


We did, and we published them.


----------



## Smitch

Bump for later


----------



## hackskii

henryv said:


> Actually it does work to raise test both by stimulating GNRH production and by directly stimulating the leydig cells to produce testosterone (through increasing cAMP). Check out the study for more info on the MOA. It's not a "one-shot fix" like hCG though.
> 
> I'm not advocating using DAA as the sole PCT agent, but it works nicely in conjunction with a SERM.


First of all, I dont pay much attention to studies especially when conducted by the supplement companies.

Lets not forget I am on DAA myself at even larger dose than what was recommended.

By inference that some are using it instead of HCG makes the statement a joke and not to even be taken with any seriousness.

When the testicles are shut down, low dose HCG works but over a very long time, SERMS too, but nothing like bolus injections of HCG.

Due to lack of sensitivity even a modes bump in LH might not even do the trick as testicles are not responsive.

I have personally known guys to be shut down for one year.

Recovery of the HPTA happens to be my favorite subject.

DAA is a supplement, and I am not even sold on it but will continue my use of it for another month, but to be honest, I am not very impressed.

I bet just 25mg of clomid would work better than DAA, but then again SERMS dont produce gains that gear does nor do supplements.

I dont like all the hype with the supplement companies, someone needs to stand back and call BS.

That is what I am doing.

Anyone suggests that DAA works like HCG, or acts like HCG, is selling DAA.

One may use it in conjunction with the PCT meds but no studies carried out on supressed men would suggest it does anything at all except rid you of a few bucks.


----------



## henryv

hackskii said:


> Anyone suggests that DAA works like HCG, or acts like HCG, is selling DAA.
> 
> One may use it in conjunction with the PCT meds but no studies carried out on supressed men would suggest it does anything at all except rid you of a few bucks.


I didn't say it acts like it, or was a replacement for it. I've seen dozens of guys praise it's use in PCT though. Also bear in mind you're probably talking about AAS PCT, in guys that have been on for months and months and haven't been using hCG on cycle. I'm talking about guys using it after 4-6 week PH/DS cycles.

There are no studies on it's use on suppressed men. It is used to treat subfertile men in Italy though.


----------



## benicillin

hacksii i'm just about to buy some of this to run alongside my PCT after my course of Sdrol, would you say its worth the 20 squid?


----------



## hackskii

benicillin said:


> hacksii i'm just about to buy some of this to run alongside my PCT after my course of Sdrol, would you say its worth the 20 squid?


I have yet to see the benefits of it so far, and I am past the 12 day mark, yet will continue for some time.

I got mine for very cheap here: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/d-aspartic-acid-daa-80-grams.

So, for the 12 bucks for 100 grams I am out nothing really, but 20 quid is what in american money?

What size tub?

Honestly I cant say for sure it does anything yet placebo actually helps thing.

I would rather you spend your money on ZMA, Vitamin D, and Vitamin E, probably get more out of that anyway.

Vitamin D defiencies are very common especially where the sun isnt out very often like you guys.

Vitamin D probably has similar effects at test boosting, aids in immune function, helps to utilize calcium, could help with diabetese, can decrease of high blood pressure, and much more.

And it is totally cheap.

A few more things, keep stress down, get a good nights sleep, have a good diet and avoid alcohol.

I know porn bumps LH levels up, it also increases libido, perhaps we can market this one to the lads here on the board, charge them for our special test boosting product and send them a porn DVD:lol:

At least they would get something that holds up to the claims, but it might not help much in the gym. :whistling:


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## CJ

hackskii said:


> I have yet to see the benefits of it so far, and I am past the 12 day mark, yet will continue for some time.
> 
> I got mine for very cheap here: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/d-aspartic-acid-daa-80-grams.
> 
> So, for the 12 bucks for 100 grams I am out nothing really, but 20 quid is what in american money?
> 
> What size tub?
> 
> Honestly I cant say for sure it does anything yet placebo actually helps thing.
> 
> I would rather you spend your money on ZMA, Vitamin D, and Vitamin E, probably get more out of that anyway.
> 
> Vitamin D defiencies are very common especially where the sun isnt out very often like you guys.
> 
> Vitamin D probably has similar effects at test boosting, aids in immune function, helps to utilize calcium, could help with diabetese, can decrease of high blood pressure, and much more.
> 
> And it is totally cheap.
> 
> A few more things, keep stress down, get a good nights sleep, have a good diet and avoid alcohol.
> 
> I know porn bumps LH levels up, it also increases libido, perhaps we can market this one to the lads here on the board, charge them for our special test boosting product and send them a porn DVD:lol:
> 
> At least they would get something that holds up to the claims,* but it might not help much in the gym*. :whistling:


Stronger forearms all round :thumb:


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## benicillin

haha thats a good marketing ploy mate, if you need someone to go over the DVD's to check they're okay.... you know where i am :lol:

And i've got all the other supps you listed above mate so i was just looking at the MyProtein DAA for something extra. 20 quid in american money - uhhh honestly, i dont know. $35 maybe?! And that is for 250g.


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## CJ

Hacks, is there any studies kicking around about the benefits of Vit D, I'd like to read into it.


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## benicillin

actually yeh, vitamin D is one i dont have... but i am partial to the odd tan can session or two so i'm guessing that helps? lol


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## henryv

CJones said:


> Hacks, is there any studies kicking around about the benefits of Vit D, I'd like to read into it.


http://www.steroidtimes.com/vitamin-d-and-igf-1/2010

http://www.steroidtimes.com/vitamin-d-sea-sun-and-sex-drive/2010

http://www.steroidtimes.com/vitamin-d-aromatase-inhibitor/2010

^ There's a couple of articles.


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## CJ

Top man, thank you for that


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## hackskii

henryv said:


> http://www.steroidtimes.com/vitamin-d-and-igf-1/2010
> 
> http://www.steroidtimes.com/vitamin-d-sea-sun-and-sex-drive/2010
> 
> http://www.steroidtimes.com/vitamin-d-aromatase-inhibitor/2010
> 
> ^ There's a couple of articles.


Very nice, I especially liked the last one with this bit in it.

*What they found was that calcitriol reduced aromatase expression in two ways - firstly, by directly suppressing its transcription at the gene level i.e. reducing how much of it is produced by the body. And secondly, by suppressing Cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2), a pro-inflammatory pathway, and increasing 15-Hydroxyprostaglandin Dehydrogenase (15-PGDH), an anti-inflammatory pathway. Combined, this effect reduces the levels of local prostaglandins including Prostaglandin E2 (PGE2), which is a major stimulator of aromatase transcription. They also found that calcitriol downregulates the expression of estrogen receptor alpha (ERa) in breast cancer cells, therefore reducing the effects of estrogen signalling at the receptor level.*

Damn, looks like a good idea for older men with more aromatase activity going on.

Reps for those man..


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## DNL

lol... seems like *another* rip off.


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## henryv

hackskii said:


> First of all, I dont pay much attention to studies especially when conducted by the supplement companies.


It wasn't conducted by a supplement company. Read it, it's very interesting.


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## hackskii

I personally would not supplement 25000iu a day of D3, but I do get some sun but not tons but it is sunny where I live and yesterday of all things got to almost 90 degrees and was hot.

I got to look on the bottle I am taking, I cant remember what the dose is.

The preperations go from like 400iu to 10,000iu so watch out what you pick.

I had a cold sore on my lip that was starting up, when I bought my D the other day I took two tabs (2000iu) and the very next day it was almost gone.

L-Lycine helps awesome for those.

Strange how certain amino acids do certain things.


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## Lois_Lane

25000iu vitamin D sounds like a Poliquin idea to me.

Scott i had no results with just the plain powder but i am going to give the testforce 2 a try because i have seen noticable differences in guys at the gym on this.


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## benicillin

Lois_Lane said:


> 25000iu vitamin D sounds like a Poliquin idea to me.
> 
> Scott i had no results with just the plain powder but i am going to give the testforce 2 a try because i have seen noticable differences in guys at the gym on this.


Is test force 2 only available in the US mate? can't seem to find any UK sites selling it.


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## Brotein

benicillin said:


> Is test force 2 only available in the US mate? can't seem to find any UK sites selling it.


http://www.predatornutrition.com/pd-testforce-90-grams.cfm


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## kuju

ruaidhri said:


> so does this mean we should be supplementing at least 20000iu's vit d3 ed? i am taking 5000iu atm and thought this was plenty?


Just curious as i'm finding it hard to source a quality high-strength D3 supplement - have you found a particularly good one or are you just using very large doses of the (apparently) more common 1,000iu dosed versions?


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## kuju

ruaidhri said:


> I am using myprotein one which is 2500iu per capsule


Awesome! Thank you kindly! :beer:


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## dtlv

ruaidhri said:


> "aim for 10-25,000 IUs daily and the only way you're going to get that is by exposure of most of our body to sunlight whether from the sun or tanning lamps"
> 
> what do you think of this statement hacks? (excerpt from first response in the 2nd article that henry posted)
> 
> it would be impractical (and potentially harmful) for us in the UK to go on a sunbed every day, so seems pretty stupid advice.
> 
> "By the way&#8230; the sun (and therefore tanning beds) causes the body to produce roughly 20-25,000 IUs of D3"
> 
> so does this mean we should be supplementing at least 20000iu's vit d3 ed? i am taking 5000iu atm and thought this was plenty?


I'd vary seasonally... if you live somewhere like the UK with crappy amounts of sunlight then 20,000+ daily in the winter, then down to 1,000-2,000 in the summer or even take a break from it.


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## hackskii

DAA has given me some gastric distress @ 4g ED.

Stopped everything till it all subsides.


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## JBWILSON

I've been using MP's DAA for a week now, 3g daily in fruit juice. The wife has def noticed a difference:thumb:.


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## kuju

hackskii said:


> DAA has given me some gastric distress @ 4g ED.
> 
> Stopped everything till it all subsides.


Which one are you using? I got that from the raw product but the Testforce seemed to be fine with me.


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## hackskii

kuju said:


> Which one are you using? I got that from the raw product but the Testforce seemed to be fine with me.


This one: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/d-aspartic-acid-daa-80-grams.

But to be fair, it was mostly noticible at the end of the 100 grams.

I took a few days off and went back to normal, this morning I did just 3 grams instead of 4 and did notice some gas or something.

I wonder if this stuff has any effects on acid ashing or alkaline ashing?

I kindof suspect it gave me some acidic issues, should have used the pH strips to check that out.


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## kuju

hackskii said:


> This one: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/d-aspartic-acid-daa-80-grams.
> 
> But to be fair, it was mostly noticible at the end of the 100 grams.
> 
> I took a few days off and went back to normal, this morning I did just 3 grams instead of 4 and did notice some gas or something.
> 
> I wonder if this stuff has any effects on acid ashing or alkaline ashing?
> 
> I kindof suspect it gave me some acidic issues, should have used the pH strips to check that out.


I've seen a few comments around (including some from Patrick Arnold..I think...don't quote me or him on that!!) that suggest the raw product doesn't dissolve easily and is poorly absorbed - could be the issue? Or maybe it's just exacerbating something entirely different?


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## hackskii

Not sure but I dropped the dose and far less gastric issues.

It does not disolve very easy, it is gritty actually.

But it was cheap so I took a 4 gram dose all in the morning.

Probably better to split that up and use same just divided into smaller portions instead of all in one hit.

I have another tub to play with.


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## iain1668

hackskii said:


> Not sure but I dropped the dose and far less gastric issues.
> 
> It does not disolve very easy, it is gritty actually.
> 
> But it was cheap so I took a 4 gram dose all in the morning.
> 
> Probably better to split that up and use same just divided into smaller portions instead of all in one hit.
> 
> I have another tub to play with.


As i sell the stuff here, i have also heard about gastric issues with DAA from many guys. They are using the Primaforce DAA.

Try mixing 3g of DAA with 2-3g of Bicarbonate sodium (baking soda)

Mix with 60-100ml of water.

Leave for 2 minutes and you will find there is no trace of powder, meaning all is now much more soluble, with a better PH. Apparently the PH will sit around 7-8 when mixed with bi carb sodium. If DAA is mixed with water, the PH may be around 5-6 meaning it's much more acidity.

I put many guys onto this and have heard much better things about DAA.

The issue with the raw powder (much like creatine monohydrate) is that there is no delivery, so it will sit in your digestive tract.

Give it a bash, see how you go.

Iain


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## dougiet

could this be a good way to take creatine & DAA mix - same glass- water & bi carb as in better absorbttion ?


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## iain1668

dougiet said:


> could this be a good way to take creatine & DAA mix - same glass- water & bi carb as in better absorbttion ?


Assuming you mean monohydrate, i would suggest not to time the 2 together.

DAA, from what i have researched, should be taking in between meals. Reason being so there can be no major absorption problems.

Creatine to my knowledge has no problems travelling through the digestive tract, it's insulin that is key for the uptake of creatine.

With regards to DAA, bi carb soda merely makes DAA more soluble so it doesn't sit in the tract.

I would time creatine away from DAA, purely because 1 has digestion issues and the other needs insulin, which would require a sugar to be taken at the same time. no matter how little, DAA is on an empty stomach.


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## dougiet

CHEERS BUDDY


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## hackskii

iain1668 said:


> As i sell the stuff here, i have also heard about gastric issues with DAA from many guys. They are using the Primaforce DAA.
> 
> Try mixing 3g of DAA with 2-3g of Bicarbonate sodium (baking soda)
> 
> Mix with 60-100ml of water.
> 
> Leave for 2 minutes and you will find there is no trace of powder, meaning all is now much more soluble, with a better PH. Apparently the PH will sit around 7-8 when mixed with bi carb sodium. If DAA is mixed with water, the PH may be around 5-6 meaning it's much more acidity.
> 
> I put many guys onto this and have heard much better things about DAA.
> 
> The issue with the raw powder (much like creatine monohydrate) is that there is no delivery, so it will sit in your digestive tract.
> 
> Give it a bash, see how you go.
> 
> Iain


I knew it, I freaking knew it.

Just as I assumed it was and here is what I noticed.

My skin was getting jacked up, and bloating along with gastric issues, where it is runny, and kind of foamy.

Only times I get this with the skin is when I get a bit acidic.

I do take bicarb myself and this totally helps me.

I was thinking of adding in bicarb but thought it would disrupt its properties, or ruin its workings.

Thank you so much Iain for pointing this out to me, I did suspect this but didnt give it any more thought than just noticing this.

I should have went with my intuition.

My skin in the end was pretty bad and the only time this happens is when I have problems with yeast or too much acidity in my diet (lack of green vegetables and too much protein).

The body thrives more alkaline than acidic, and so does yeast.

Damn, problem was in my face and didnt see it clearly.

Thanks man and reps awarded.


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## hackskii

Wow, mixed equal amounts of DAA and baking soda/bicarb soda, let it sit, there was some foaming and reaction, then it was totally clear, no powder at all.

Drank it and it tasted a bit carbonated and had a nice crisp tast.

Even made me burp after I drank it.

That worked really well.


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## iain1668

Great result then mate. Glad it worked out for you. thanks for the reps also, i had none before, lol...

It would be interesting to hear if you get any further gains from this product. I have had endless feedback, DAA has become a big part of that section of my store, i have actually ran out and am already taking back orders. it's crazy.


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## henryv

hackskii said:


> mixed equal amounts of DAA and baking soda/bicarb soda...


That's how you make sodium d-aspartate. :thumbup1:

link 1 link 2

Customer feedback on our product vs bulk:

"i took bulk DAA for 6 weeks at 5 grams and felt nothing. i switched to test force and within 3 days my libido increased. a couple weeks later i felt like i was 16 and horny."

link

"To me there are a couple obvious differences between bulk DAA and Testforce just from how I feel after taking it. For example, bulk DAA gives me wicked anxiety while Testforce doesn't."

link


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## hackskii

Thanks guys, way better with the bicarb in it, but my first ratio was off, it is about 50% bicarb to the DAA.

This morning I used 3 grams of bicarb for 4 grams of DAA, it was too much bicarb.

So, id say 2 grams bicarb or a tad less to 4 grams DAA and it leaves almost nothing but clear liquid in water.

Strange is it tasts a bit like soda water but less fizz.

There is some fiz but it tasts very good even better than water by itself.

Yah, it makes me burp too but I love the taste as I do like soda/selzer water anyway and I drink it from refrigerated filtered water and an iced glass.

Stuff tasts very nice and would drink it even if it did nothing:lol:

Takes a few minutes for all the action and the milky water to turn clear.

Startin to love the stuff myself and it is cheap.

Was just worried it would change its profile to be less effective.


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## A.J.

good read!


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