# Is it possible to cut on high carbs?



## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Hi all,

This weekend just gone I went to a very interesting bodybuilding and nutrition seminar that had a few UKBBF & IFBB competitors present. When asking questions, a lot of them said that when cutting, they never reduce their carbs down dramatically. A few of them in fact stated that they consume 500g of carbs when cutting.

There was another amateur lad there who is competing in 3 weeks time and was losing body-fat on 570g of carbs per day and looked in top shape.

I didn't even think this was possible.

Just to add to this by the way, all these guys are being prepped by the same guy and he's a big advocator of eating clean, complex, low GI carbs and stated that this can't be done if eating 500g of carbs from junk.


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## musclekick (Aug 6, 2012)

no...except with T3 or DNP


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

If a dietician that gives advice to guys who are at a far higher level than I could ever dream to reach says so, then who am I to argue?

It's not like they'll be getting their carbs from Fanta and Haribo is it?

It's always a matter of calories in/calories out.

Top level guys with massive amounts of muscle will need lots of energy to fuel their workouts, so 500g a day is believable, especially with the amount of 'slin they'll be using.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Well from looking at his clients, he definitely is a top level dietician.

All the guys he's working with look amazing. They also all appear to be roughly between 5ft 4" - 5ft 6" lol.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Contest said:


> All the guys he's working with look amazing. They also all appear to be roughly between 5ft 4" - 5ft 6" lol.


So you're saying high carbs whilst cutting stunts your growth? :lol:


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dux said:


> So you're saying high carbs whilst cutting stunts your growth? :lol:


Lmao no not at all sorry. I was meant to to add that I'm 6ft 1" but currently only weigh 89kg. I'm in good shape but felt small amongst these guys lol.

I'm currently carb-cycling and was doing 100g, 200g, 600g but have now decided to bump this up to 150g, 300g, 600g.


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

Contest said:


> Lmao no not at all sorry. I was meant to to add that I'm 6ft 1" but currently only weigh 89kg. I'm in good shape but felt small amongst these guys lol.
> 
> I'm currently carb-cycling and was doing 100g, 200g, 600g but have now decided to bump this up to 150g, 300g, 600g.


I was only messing mate.

Find what works for you by playing around with your intake, what works for some doesn't for others.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Dux said:


> I was only messing mate.
> 
> Find what works for you by playing around with your intake, what works for some doesn't for others.


Well said mate. The same thing was said in the seminar. Everyone is different but I never once thought people can cut for a comp using 570g of carbs.


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

Depends how much tren ace you got in there really...

When you add GH, DNP on and off, T3, beta 2 antagonists you have a lot more flex in your diet.

Bear in mind these guys may need carbs for their insulin shots as well...


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

It sounds a lot. 4 cals in a gram of carbs so 4 x 570 = 2280 cals

4cals in a gram of protein...assume these guys are taking in at least 200g a day, so 4 x 200 = 800 cals

Fats would obviously be minimal,lets guess 40g a day, 9 cals in a gram of fat, so 9 x 40 = 310 cals

Add this total together you get 3390 cals.

Suppose they bulk on 4,500. Maintain on 3,800-4,000. All of a sudden that amount of carbs doesnt seem so outrageous. But obviously I'm doing loads of speculating with the macro amounts there


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

foodaddict said:


> It sounds a lot. 4 cals in a gram of carbs so 4 x 570 = 2280 cals
> 
> 4cals in a gram of protein...assume these guys are taking in at least 200g a day, so 4 x 200 = 800 cals
> 
> ...


The guy who was cutting on 500g of carbs said his protein intake was 400g lol.


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Re. ppl talking about precontest slin shots...does that really happen much? On this forum and on others the guys who compete seem to only use slin whilst bulking. I could be wrong but I don't think precontest slin use is too common


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## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

Contest said:


> The guy who was cutting on 500g of carbs said his protein intake was 400g lol.


Alongside 400g protein yeah 570g carbs is huge amount to be dieting on lol


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes of course it is, plenty of examples of people who both cut to and maintain below average body fat levels with high or moderate carb intakes - in body building circles Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Clarence Bass, Lee Haney, Shawn Ray and Kevin Levrone all used to cut on diets that can't really be considered as low carb (low sugar and processed carb, yes, but low carb overall no).

Is not for everyone, those with poor insulin sensitivity will not do as well with moderate or higher carb, but those with high insulin sensitivity will do fine, either natural or with chemical assistance.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Yes of course it is, plenty of examples of people who both cut to and maintain below average body fat levels with high or moderate carb intakes - in body building circles Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Clarence Bass, Lee Haney, Shawn Ray and Kevin Levrone all used to cut on diets that can't really be considered as low carb (low sugar and processed carb, yes, but low carb overall no).
> 
> Is not for everyone, those with poor insulin sensitivity will not do as well with moderate or higher carb, but those with high insulin sensitivity will do fine, either natural or with chemical assistance.


This is the approach I've adopted on my carb cycling diet. Consuming only complex carbs (oats, brown rice & burgen bread).

I've found my weight going up but my overall composition and waist-line remaining the same.

I'm cycling between 50g, 150g, 300g & 600g using a timed carbs protocol through. Just find it shocking how someone can consume 570g everyday and still drop body-fat.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Yeah a pro I know has a team who he has on a high carb diet and they're all shredded, apparently the natural ones as well. I know Kai Green's trainer gets him to eat a high carb diet. I personally couldn't do it, and I hate those that can! BSTRDS


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

rectus said:


> Yeah a pro I know has a team who he has on a high carb diet and they're all shredded, apparently the natural ones as well. I know Kai Green's trainer gets him to eat a high carb diet. I personally couldn't do it, and I hate those that can! BSTRDS


Have you tried high carbing it using only vegetables, oats and brown rice mate?

I wonder how many of these guys use Metformin when consuming such large quantities of carbs :confused1:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Contest said:


> Have you tried high carbing it using only vegetables, oats and brown rice mate?
> 
> I wonder how many of these guys use Metformin when consuming such large quantities of carbs :confused1:


Trying just waxy maize at the moment to see how I get on.


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## Kermit2 (Sep 24, 2010)

Am dieting for a show and I was eating 500g carbs and have just increased then to 600g as I was looking flat. Am currently on 300g protein.

Have dropped from 287lbs to 239lbs in 11 weeks. 40mins fasted cardio 6 times a day.


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Kermit2 said:


> Am dieting for a show and I was eating 500g carbs and have just increased then to 600g as I was looking flat. Am currently on 300g protein.
> 
> Have dropped from 287lbs to 239lbs in 11 weeks. 40mins fasted cardio 6 times a day.


is that 600g everyday mate and how high are your fats?


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## Kermit2 (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes mate that's daily. Fats are at 48g


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Contest said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This weekend just gone I went to a very interesting bodybuilding and nutrition seminar that had a few UKBBF & IFBB competitors present. When asking questions, a lot of them said that when cutting, they never reduce their carbs down dramatically. A few of them in fact stated that they consume 500g of carbs when cutting.
> 
> ...


of course it can be done but it depends on the individual and their own metabolism, what has to be remembered is there metabolism and the drugs they are using to accomplish this


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> of course it can be done but it depends on the individual and their own metabolism, what has to be remembered is there metabolism and the drugs they are using to accomplish this


Have you ever tried this higher carb approach mate?

*P.S*

My carb intake over the past few weeks has gone up quite considerably as well. If you remember you told me that you felt my carb intake when cycling was too low in your opinion but I kept being stubborn lol.

It now looks like this...

1x day - 50g

2x days - 150g

2x days - 300g

2x days - 600g

I've gotten bigger but like I mentioned before, my waistline and composition is the same.

I'm currently using...


1.8g Test

1.5g EQ

900mg Tren

50mcg T3 ED


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

dtlv said:


> Yes of course it is, plenty of examples of people who both cut to and maintain below average body fat levels with high or moderate carb intakes - in body building circles Lee Labrada, Rich Gaspari, Clarence Bass, Lee Haney, Shawn Ray and Kevin Levrone all used to cut on diets that can't really be considered as low carb (low sugar and processed carb, yes, but low carb overall no).
> 
> Is not for everyone, those with poor insulin sensitivity will not do as well with moderate or higher carb, but those with high insulin sensitivity will do fine, either natural or with chemical assistance.


How would you know what your insulin sensitivity would be????


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

ash1981 said:


> How would you know what your insulin sensitivity would be????


I can only imagine this is a trial & error kind of thing.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm a classic ecto

I'm thinking of dropping all added fats out and replace with pots and brow rice


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I feel carb timing is also very important. Excluding my high carb days, all my carbs are consumed pre & post-workout.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Kermit2 said:


> Am dieting for a show and I was eating 500g carbs and have just increased then to 600g as I was looking flat. Am currently on 300g protein.
> 
> Have dropped from 287lbs to 239lbs in 11 weeks. 40mins fasted cardio 6 times a day.


Holy fcuk...you're doing 4 hrs cardio a day?!?!


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## Kermit2 (Sep 24, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Lol. Meant to say 6 days a week.
> 
> Holy fcuk...you're doing 4 hrs cardio a day?!?!


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Cheers Kermit and the best of luck dude...if you were doing 4 hrs a day Im pretty sure Id throw me hat at it.


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## Kermit2 (Sep 24, 2010)

mixerD1 said:


> Cheers Kermit and the best of luck dude...if you were doing 4 hrs a day Im pretty sure Id throw me hat at it.


Cheers Mixer. I'm soaked in sweat after 40 mins cardio. My missus would go mental if I gave her 7 hoodies to wash and dry on a daily basis. Lol


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

Kermit2 said:


> Cheers Mixer. I'm soaked in sweat after 40 mins cardio. My missus would go mental if I gave her 7 hoodies to wash and dry on a daily basis. Lol


I'm assuming that's 40 minutes of steady cardio?

Just curious but why not do 10-20 minutes of HIIT mate?


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## Kermit2 (Sep 24, 2010)

Contest said:


> I'm assuming that's 40 minutes of steady cardio?
> 
> Just personal preference mate. Usually in the gym 15 mins after waking up. Also find that if I do HIIT I flatten out quicker.
> 
> Just curious but why not do 10-20 minutes of HIIT mate?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

ash1981 said:


> How would you know what your insulin sensitivity would be????


Well you can do a fasting oral glucose clearance test, also there are (expensive at around £100) cheek swab gene tests which will tell you whether you have poor insulin tolerance at a base genetic level, but the simplest way to make a fairly accurate guess is simply by how you respond to moderate to large intakes of carbs on a daily basis - if you find yourself lethargic between meals, get strong cravings for sweet foods, and seem to go almost skinny-fat for a while when cutting and only lean up right at the end, then probably you have comparatively poor insulin sensitivity - if however you find no issues with higher carbs and are a bag of energy and cut well on them then chances are you have high insulin sensitivity. You can also possibly tell from bodyfat distribution (although am not sure how accurate this is) where it is claimed that those with insulin insensitivity problems hold fat preferentially on their backs (particularly over the lats) and under their upper arms (chicken wings hanging off the triceps) when at above 15% body fat or so.

According to the biggest study to date on this (a study that looked at several thousand people in the US), on a genetic level roughly 45% of people are not blessed with optimal genes for high insulin sensitivity, whereas around 30% are, with the remainder in a fairly neutral position. Genetics are the main determinant, but also activity levels and amount of existing body fat also affect insulin sensitivity strongly. Smoking, drinking and lack of sleep also worsen sensitivity to insulin, as does long term use of GH. There are a few micronutrients which can help insulin sensitivity too, so quality of diet also plays a role. Is not a simple formula, but in all honesty the simplest guide to go by is trail and error.

If you are interested I can link a couple of articles here.


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## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

I would say when i cut i go too far too soon and burn out.

I would also say its not easy for me to gain muscle but easy for me to look leaner

And when i cut carbs my energy levels drop, and become feint in feeling


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## Kermit2 (Sep 24, 2010)

I'd be interested in having a look at those articles mate. Cheers


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Kermit2 said:


> I'd be interested in having a look at those articles mate. Cheers


Have a gander over the thread below and also the article in the second link - both cover the general subject of insulin sensitivity and fat loss differences pretty well.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/food-diet-nutrition-info/161198-fat-loss-diets-your-genes.html

http://graemethomasonline.com/low-carb-or-low-fat-let-science-settle-the-debate/


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Contest said:


> Have you ever tried this higher carb approach mate?


yes i have and it does not work for me at all......


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> yes i have and it does not work for me at all......


You should change your username then, it's misleading.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

rectus said:


> You should change your username then, it's misleading.


why? my username has nothing to do with carbs???? plus i said i cannot diet on high carbs i never said i could not diet on any carbs


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> why? my username has nothing to do with carbs???? plus i said i cannot diet on high carbs i never said i could not diet on any carbs


Ps*CARB*

Yeah it was meant as a joke... ha ha.. oh just me then ¬_¬


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

rectus said:


> Ps*CARB*
> 
> Yeah it was meant as a joke... ha ha.. oh just me then ¬_¬


Taxi!!!!!!! 

it is my first and last name mate


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## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

Sounds similar to Chris Acetos approach...very low fat...moderate carbs and protein


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