# Is it easier to build muscle when bulking? Advice Please Guys



## DanMac

Hello lads,

I've been training since October 2010 and gained a fairly large amount of overall size and a slight amount of improved definition. Now I'm thinking what is the best way of improving the amount of lean muscle I gain from now on, is it best to do the bulk up in winter cut down in summer routine or just stick as I am?

I find it easy to gain weight and find it hard to shift weight from my abs.. So I'm in two minds whether to bulk? I've recently (past month) started to concentrate on my diet with high protine and carbs throughout the day and gained half a stone!

My ideal look is big with a fair amount of definition...

What do you thinks best?

I'm currently:

5,10ft

12 1\2 stone (gained half a stone within 3 weeks)

Thanks.


----------



## dtlv

Is a question that am sure will be asked a million times more - is it best overall to alternate periods of cutting and bulking, or to lean bulk straight through.

I think it really depends upon you. Lean bulking is normally harder to find the right balance to do - it takes a while experimenting with different calorie intakes and macro splits to find your 'optimum' lean bulking zone.... cutting and bulking cycles are easier though because its pretty straight forward to suddenly up your kcals significantly or drop them considerably.

In terms of which works best, I'd say probably a tie overall if both are done properly. A full on bulk is normally the condition where you'll gain most muscle, but a full on cut is also the condition where you are most likely to lose most muscle... so for bulk/cut it's definitely three steps forward/one step back for lean muscle gain. For a proper lean bulk it's more like two steps forward... slower initial progress but no backtrack.

In general I'd say that if you don't like being too precise with counting kcals an macros etc, and dont mind carrying extra fat for a while then do the bulk/cut thing. If you want to see your abs all year though and want to grow but never lose the lean look then try lean bulking... but just accept it may take a little longer to get right.


----------



## adsdj

I think with a Lean Bulk, you are more likely to think about the foods you eat, and also getting the macros right. You have to find just the right point where you gain muscle with little fat, it's not easy but for me I will stay more motivated if I carry less fat, rather than bulking up/cutting down.


----------



## DanMac

Thanks for your reply guys.

I've been told that bulk/cut is basically 2 steps forward and 1 back.. But how much of a step backwards would it be? I've never done it myself and never seen anyone go through the full cycle. There's a lad up the gym who I know who has just started cutting so I might keep an eye and see how much he looses...

It must be different for everyone but I would be so ****ed if I done all the hard work then cut and I looked like crap ha.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Bamse

Bulk/cut may be two steps forward, one step back. But lean bulking is likely to be only one step forward, so in the end it's all about finding out, through trial and error, what works for you. Not just what works for your body, but also what works for your mentality, your lifestyle, etc.


----------



## Tinytom

rihaan said:


> yes its possible.just follow these steps..
> 
> 1.Go for veggies
> 
> 2.Eat fiber
> 
> 3.Don't switch foods radically
> 
> 4.Make health, not weight loss, your goal
> 
> 5.A major reason people get discouraged and drop out of weight-loss programs is weight plateaus
> 
> 6.Don't rush weight reduction
> 
> 7.Get exercise it will very helpful to *link removed*.


Thats pretty sh*t advice when you consider the original post.

Removed the link as well


----------



## Andrew Jacks

DanMac said:


> Hello lads,
> 
> I find it easy to gain weight and find it hard to shift weight from my abs
> 
> My ideal look is big with a fair amount of definition...
> 
> .


Seems like a good time to work on your diet and get some discipline in and start to train your mind along with your body, I would cut hard and enjoy the summer and use the experience to do the same next year, use winter to gain mass, abs are hard for everyone to cut and it only gets harder the older you get


----------



## Lorian

Tinytom said:


> Thats pretty sh*t advice when you consider the original post.
> 
> Removed the link as well


That's an example of the new kind of spam we are getting.

All of their posts have been removed.

L


----------



## Sallerton

There is really only one answer to this q.

Your body can only manufacture a finite amount of muscle over a given period of time. By being in a caloric surplus (how much of a surplus you will have to figure out yourself) you provide your body with the tools it need to synthesise this new tissue. Any amount of calories over this required limit will be stored as fat.

Your muscle:fat gain ratio comes to down nutrient partitioning, which is determined by:

1. Genetics (70%)

2. Diet (30%)

Hope this helps! I can post up some studies if you would like.


----------



## musio

Sallerton said:


> There is really only one answer to this q.
> 
> Your body can only manufacture a finite amount of muscle over a given period of time. By being in a caloric surplus (how much of a surplus you will have to figure out yourself) you provide your body with the tools it need to synthesise this new tissue. Any amount of calories over this required limit will be stored as fat.
> 
> Your muscle:fat gain ratio comes to down nutrient partitioning, which is determined by:
> 
> 1. Genetics (70%)
> 
> 2. Diet (30%)
> 
> Hope this helps! I can post up some studies if you would like.


If that's the case, some nattys must have very bad luck in this body building game. No wonder people turn to AAS.

Saying that, i've seen some nattys that look better than anabolic users....


----------



## flapjack

If you go for the bulk/cut thing be careful not too cut too harshly. I speak from the experience of being an idiot who cut back the calories too harshly in a bid to loose fat and got rid of 12 months of muscle gains in about 6 weeks. Its all part of the learning curve though. lol.


----------



## Bamse

flapjack said:


> If you go for the bulk/cut thing be careful not too cut too harshly. I speak from the experience of being an idiot who cut back the calories too harshly in a bid to loose fat and got rid of 12 months of muscle gains in about 6 weeks. Its all part of the learning curve though. lol.


Surely it didn't take 12 months to regain that mass though?


----------



## GolDeNGaTe

If your gonna bulk and cut, remember you have to cut. Which is a pi%%er to be fair... diets are no fun if followed correctly imo.


----------



## -Jack-

don't ct and bulk unless your are going in to competitions. if you bulk woul will want to get rid of fat later only do it if you reach a plato


----------



## robc1985

I did my first serious bulk in Jan and gained nearly two stone in 3 months! Got a lot of muscle but fat too. Now been cutting 6 weeks and lost 15 lbs.

Now I've seen good results doing this but from July/august I'm going to lean bulk. By this I basically mean do a big bulk while incorporating cardio to burn fat. Think it's worth a shout rather than hardcore bulk with zero cardio then 12 weeks of cutting and busting my [email protected] off.

Give that a try mate and see how you get on.


----------



## MarkFranco

Illd say yeah


----------



## Jack92

half a stone in 3 week?!? i want what your taking man


----------



## DanMac

robc1985 said:


> I did my first serious bulk in Jan and gained nearly two stone in 3 months! Got a lot of muscle but fat too. Now been cutting 6 weeks and lost 15 lbs.
> 
> Now I've seen good results doing this but from July/august I'm going to lean bulk. By this I basically mean do a big bulk while incorporating cardio to burn fat. Think it's worth a shout rather than hardcore bulk with zero cardio then 12 weeks of cutting and busting my [email protected] off.
> 
> Give that a try mate and see how you get on.


Nice one mate! Sounds good, I might bulk with heavy cardio over the winter as I'm sure this will both bulk me to gain muscle and also keep me in a hard decent figure..

Cheers



Jack92 said:


> half a stone in 3 week?!? i want what your taking man


I know man! I started increasing my carb intake way above what I was on in the past and cut cardio and then weighed myself 3 weeks later and I put on half a stone! Tbh it didn't really look like I was fat which was good, although I've now started concentrating on my abs and gone back to 12 stone.


----------



## RickMiller

Sallerton said:


> There is really only one answer to this q.
> 
> Your body can only manufacture a finite amount of muscle over a given period of time. By being in a caloric surplus (how much of a surplus you will have to figure out yourself) you provide your body with the tools it need to synthesise this new tissue. Any amount of calories over this required limit will be stored as fat.
> 
> Your muscle:fat gain ratio comes to down nutrient partitioning, which is determined by:
> 
> 1. Genetics (70%)
> 
> 2. Diet (30%)
> 
> Hope this helps! I can post up some studies if you would like.


I agree to an extent, but would prefer to throw a third facet in their (likely a sub-category of your 'genetics') - P-Ratio (perhaps this is what you were alluding to?) This is the ratio of lean:fat tissue deposited in proportion to a given surplus quantity of calories for an individual.

For the average, untrained, 'semi-lean' person (15-20% body fat and in direct reference to the massachusetts starvation study), the proportion of lean:fat accumulated would be less than that of a trained, lean (<10% bodyfat) bodybuilder/strength athlete.

What am I getting at?

Bulking and cutting cycles are fine (I strongly believe one should cycle their intake in proportion to training) but not in the traditional, 'see food' 'eat food' sense and especially not if you're fat to begin with. In my opinion, if you're training without AAS, one should look to get as lean as possible whilst maintaining hormonal/metabolic status (probably 8-10% body fat would be best for most naturals) then increase calories in a slow, cyclic fashion to gain as much muscle as possible whilst reducing the time needed to get very lean, quickly.


----------



## DanMac

I'm going to be starting my bulk this September and I'm very looking forward to it and seeing how my body reacts. Progress picture will be taken from pre-bulk to finished bulk and then finished cut


----------



## iMunkie

RickMiller said:


> ...
> 
> Bulking and cutting cycles are fine (I strongly believe one should cycle their intake in proportion to training) but not in the traditional, 'see food' 'eat food' sense and especially not if you're fat to begin with. In my opinion, if you're training without AAS, one should look to get as lean as possible whilst maintaining hormonal/metabolic status (probably 8-10% body fat would be best for most naturals) then increase calories in a slow, cyclic fashion to gain as much muscle as possible whilst reducing the time needed to get very lean, quickly.


Slightly confused, in your opinion it is best to cut right down to 8-10% body fat and then proceed with a lean muscle gain program or to proceed with a cycle (bulking and cutting) ?


----------



## DanMac

Brecon said:


> Slightly confused, in your opinion it is best to cut right down to 8-10% body fat and then proceed with a lean muscle gain program or to proceed with a cycle (bulking and cutting) ?


He means that getting down to 8-10% first and then increasing intake to a bulking stage.. This is a good idea if it's the summer time and then you want to start bulking in the winter. Although it doesn't really matter when you bulk/cut, i'm bulking up from september and then cutting in feb


----------



## RickMiller

DanMac said:


> He means that getting down to 8-10% first and then increasing intake to a bulking stage.. This is a good idea if it's the summer time and then you want to start bulking in the winter. Although it doesn't really matter when you bulk/cut, i'm bulking up from september and then cutting in feb


This is exactly it.

I won't allow any of my physique athletes to get above 10% bodyfat if male and 15% if female before cutting again, it's too much strain on the athlete.


----------



## DanMac

From what I've been told so far anyone wanting to move into a bulking stage should increase their intake by around 150-250 cals per week and then stop at where you want to be. Once reached your daily cal intake in a nice smooth time maintain this for as long as you require preferably no longer than 6 months but it's up to you. I'll post some more information and personal diet/cal breakdown once I've started bulking at the end of sept.

:thumbup1:


----------



## DanMac

From when I started this thread I've seen quite a large difference in muscle development since I started bulking in October, from what I've learned so far the key is to aim to put on around 1 pound per week or even 1.5. The reason for this is within the last 8 days i've been using a different high carb shake and have put on 2 pounds within the 8 days and I'm feeling a bit bloated around the stomach... Although this might not happen to others.


----------



## DanMac

Just to shed some light on my original question of this thread.. Yes i've found it much easier (massively improved results) when ensuring there's a surplus or cals on a bulk. Defiantly worth it!


----------



## musio

What was your surplus cals per day?

How much fat did you put on?


----------



## swine321

im currently on a surplus. trying to add muscle to all areas really mainly if im honest, back, chest and arms. i am wondering though me chest seems to be more toned then looking bigger, is this normally the way when bulking you get toned first then the mass comes along? im curious


----------

