# Skinnyfat, high BF, low musclemass. How to fix it?



## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Im 187 lbs, with a high body fat-percetage. My height is 6'1. and I wanna build muscle and get lean, but have a low bf%.

1) Bulk and add muscle, but then i will look alot more fatter and have a higher BF

2) Cut, remove the fat, but will i be able to add any musclemass?

What should I DO?


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

Cut like there was no tomorrow


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## drwae (Jul 25, 2017)

Your posture is terrible


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

u2pride said:


> Cut like there was no tomorrow


 How much? 500 kcal in deficit? More?


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

smash00 said:


> How much? 500 kcal in deficit? More?


 1) Estimate your TDEE https://tdeecalculator.net/

2) Weight sessions?

3) Cardio?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

u2pride said:


> 1) Estimate your TDEE https://tdeecalculator.net/
> 
> 2) Weight sessions?
> 
> 3) Cardio?


 TDEE is 2600 ish.

What about cardio? Like u see, have very low musclemass, need to add, but how? I also need to get rid of that fat.


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

smash00 said:


> TDEE is 2600 ish.
> 
> What about cardio? Like u see, have very low musclemass, need to add, but how? I also need to get rid of that fat.


 Weight sessions?


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## anna1 (Mar 22, 2014)

For starters join a gym

x


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

Straighten up, weight train, clean up your diet and add in 4 x 20 mins cardio per week. No need to cut or bulk at this stage IMO.

Just eat clean/well and weight train + cardio. You will see results. Adjust calories when you know what you're doing.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

u2pride said:


> Weight sessions?


 I am currently lifting a Upper/Lower program 4 days/week, which goes well. But i am unsure if i should bulk, cut or be at maintance?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

invisiblekid said:


> Straighten up, weight train, clean up your diet and add in 4 x 20 mins cardio per week. No need to cut or bulk at this stage IMO.
> 
> Just eat clean/well and weight train + cardio. You will see results. Adjust calories when you know what you're doing.


 Why cardio? Cant i just reduce my calories a bit while lifting hard?


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## TBWFC (Feb 3, 2014)

smash00 said:


> Why cardio? Cant i just reduce my calories a bit while lifting hard?


 Reducing your calories will also reduce your protein intake meaning you won't be able to build as much muscle. You could just remove the calories instead but you wont notice much gain in muscle mass, just the weight loss. As you want both I would agree. Get your calories to your current TDEE protein to a g per LB you weigh and then add cardio to get you in a small deficit. The weight on the scales wont go down as much, but you will be gaining muscle and burning BF.


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## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

smash00 said:


> Why cardio? Cant i just reduce my calories a bit while lifting hard?


 I prefer to keep calories a bit higher and add HIT cardio. Health (cardiovascular) benefits, joint mobilisation, keeps you moving. All positive. And it's great for targeting fat if kept with a certain BPM range.


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## u2pride (Sep 20, 2012)

smash00 said:


> I am currently lifting a Upper/Lower program 4 days/week, which goes well. But i am unsure if i should bulk, cut or be at maintance?


 OK, I prefer to keep maintenance calories and add 2 cardio sessions (2x30 mins).

Weighed every week at empty stomach and adjust calories.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

@smash00 My body looked exactly like that including the shitty posture when i started. I'm also the same height as you.

I cant stress enough that I would advise against trying to bulk first, I did the same got very high bf and ended up having to cut for a whole year. It was legitimately hell for me.

Cut until you are "too thin" then bulk slowly.

Sort posture as well, it helps your lifts.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

TBWFC said:


> Reducing your calories will also reduce your protein intake meaning you won't be able to build as much muscle. You could just remove the calories instead but you wont notice much gain in muscle mass, just the weight loss. As you want both I would agree. Get your calories to your current TDEE protein to a g per LB you weigh and then add cardio to get you in a small deficit. The weight on the scales wont go down as much, but you will be gaining muscle and burning BF.


 I am currently eating approximately 2300 kcal, with 170 gram of protein. Isnt that enough protein? Have also reduced on my carbs.


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## TBWFC (Feb 3, 2014)

smash00 said:


> I am currently eating approximately 2300 kcal, with 170 gram of protein. Isnt that enough protein? Have also reduced on my carbs.


 gram per lb mate so should be 187 grams of protein. 2300 Kcals doesn't actually sound that low tbh.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> @smash00 My body looked exactly like that including the shitty posture when i started. I'm also the same height as you.
> 
> I cant stress enough that I would advise against trying to bulk first, I did the same got very high bf and ended up having to cut for a whole year. It was legitimately hell for me.
> 
> ...


 Srs, thanks 

How did u eat bro, was it like 500 kcal in deficit? And which lifting program did u follow?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

TBWFC said:


> gram per lb mate so should be 187 grams of protein. 2300 Kcals doesn't actually sound that low tbh.


 Ahhh ok.

But the case is that here in norwegian, then my weight is 85 kg, which will be, 85*2(the same as 1lb)=170 gram of protein.

Yes, 2300 kcals is ok, but i try to reduce it a bit, so i am at 2100 atm.


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## TBWFC (Feb 3, 2014)

smash00 said:


> Ahhh ok.
> 
> But the case is that here in norwegian, then my weight is 85 kg, which will be, 85*2(the same as 1lb)=170 gram of protein.


 TBH there is alot of different ways to work it out me personally I try to stick to a G per LB  170 grams isn't that far off 187 but the more protein the better tbh. See how you get on with the 2300kcal and the protein check the weight and mirror and adjust accordingly.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

TBWFC said:


> TBH there is alot of different ways to work it out me personally I try to stick to a G per LB  170 grams isn't that far off 187 but the more protein the better tbh. See how you get on with the 2300kcal and the protein check the weight and mirror and adjust accordingly.


 I have been eating 2300 kcals some days now, but my weight is still the same, if it isnt a bit more, so i have reduced my kcals to 2100-2200(400-500 deficit) atm. Will se how it goes 

But bro, how much should i go down to? I am currently 187 lbs.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Srs, thanks
> 
> How did u eat bro, was it like 500 kcal in deficit? And which lifting program did u follow?


 well i "bulked" by eating whatever the f**k i wanted which failed miserably.

First I ran keto for a solid few months, no cheating as a "kickstart".

then, yeah about 500-800 cal defecit (good days and normal days) with a cheat day once a week where i ate an unknown amount of cals over maintenance. it keeps you sane and also keeps metabolism fired up.

first f**ked about learning exercises anbd weights for a few months.

Stronglifts 5x5 for 9 months-ish was the first program i made any real notable gains on, just getting the weight up bring the muscle in.

Then I ran PPL for my long cut and a following bulk which went fine, but i can tell you now that I personally didn't respond like i did with straight strength programs.

I now run a slightly hypertrophy-centric butchered version of 5/3/1 BBB with some high volume accessories built in - this has been very effective for me.

*TLR;*



For a Beginner 5x5 is pretty effective and comes with an App to help track it. Throw in a couple of accessory exercises tooif you feel volume is too low. When you start really stalling change it up.


In terms of diet keep it simple, 0.75-1lb protein per lb bodyweight and keep cals in 500 or more defecit. (make sure its above TDEE)


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> well i "bulked" by eating whatever the f**k i wanted which failed miserably.
> 
> First I ran keto for a solid few months, no cheating as a "kickstart".
> 
> ...


 Ah fantastic, thanks again.

I also like the 531 BBB program, without trying it myself, but how does it actually work? Is it two heavy days and then two mild days, or?


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## CG88 (Jun 4, 2015)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> @smash00 My body looked exactly like that including the shitty posture when i started. I'm also the same height as you.
> 
> I* cant stress enough that I would advise against trying to bulk first,* I did the same got very high bf and ended up having to cut for a whole year. It was legitimately hell for me.
> 
> ...


 This


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

tren is the answer to all your problems including your posture.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

smash00 said:


> Im 187 lbs, with a high body fat-percetage. My height is 6'1. and I wanna build muscle and get lean, but have a low bf%.
> 
> 1) Bulk and add muscle, but then i will look alot more fatter and have a higher BF
> 
> ...


 Cut. Make cardio your best friend.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Ah fantastic, thanks again.
> 
> I also like the 531 BBB program, without trying it myself, but how does it actually work? Is it two heavy days and then two mild days, or?


 No its a 4 day program where you focus on increasing strength in a single of the main compound lifts per session, followed by a high volume 5x10,5,3 or 1 set after wards.

its focused on increasing bench, squat deadlift and overhead press.

https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/boring-but-big-3-month-challenge lays it out.

Theres also an app if you dont like maths, takes a while to configure but tracks well, when used to it can just note it down yourself and change things up that way:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sarasoft.es.fivethreeone&hl=en_GB

TBH Id still go with something like stronglifts 5x5 as a beginner personally, but thats just preference. I feel like i got more out of 5/3/1 with already having a strength base made.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

You can build muscle in a deficit when you're new to lifting. So diet and start lifting, is my advice.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

ILLBehaviour said:


> tren is the answer to all your problems including your posture.


 My posture is normal, but the pic I took was s**t.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> No its a 4 day program where you focus on increasing strength in a single of the main compound lifts per session, followed by a high volume 5x10,5,3 or 1 set after wards.
> 
> its focused on increasing bench, squat deadlift and overhead press.
> 
> ...


 Ye, but he sais.

Month one:  5 sets of 10 reps at 50% of Training Max (TM).

So if bench 132, i have bench to bench 60 the first month?


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## kane7 (Mar 6, 2018)

Would definitely incorporate weight training 3/4 times a week, with cardio sessions about 4 times a week.

As someone said earlier, building muscle and cutting fat at the same time is possible during the first 1 or 2 years of working out.

Would suggest eating at a small deficit of about -300 kcal, whilst incorporating a low carb, medium fat, high protein diet.

Good luck


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

kane7 said:


> Would definitely incorporate weight training 3/4 times a week, with cardio sessions about 4 times a week.
> 
> As someone said earlier, building muscle and cutting fat at the same time is possible during the first 1 or 2 years of working out.
> 
> ...


 Thanks  but whats the thing about low carb? To much carb gives u more belly fat?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Ye, but he sais.
> 
> Month one:  5 sets of 10 reps at 50% of Training Max (TM).
> 
> So if bench 132, i have bench to bench 60 the first month?


 No your not reading it correct, you'd do the 5/3/1 program and then 5x10 at 50% of 1rm after wards also... but that's an intermediate program, no offence but your a beginner, I'd start with stronglifts 5x5 and get your 5 basic lifts perfected and push them as far as you can while taking in 2000 calories for the start weeks and work up at 50 calories per week for the first 6 weeks and then 100 calories per week for the last six weeks which will see you at 2900 cals after 12 weeks and see where your lifts are after 12 weeks, you should then be squatting 100+kg, deadlifting 120+, rowing 70+, benching 60+ and overhead pressing 40+Kg you could then swap to madcow or wendlers if you wanted too 

wendlers 5/3/1 you simply wont progress fast enough (efficiently!) or lifting with enough frequency as a beginner! You'd be jumping up the weights which would lead to premature stalling


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Thanks  Which liftingprogram do u reckommend? I prefer a 4 day program, which has to include squat/deadlift etc.


 Stick to stronglifts and squatting 3x a week, it's a very efficient program, download the app and start from the very beginning!

20kg squat, bench, ohp, 30kg rows and 40kg deadlift and get the form bang on! Add 2.5kg per week (5kg for deadlifts) and if you can get some fractional plates for ohp they are ideal as that will stall first!

rome wasn't built in a day 

post up form check videos after 4, 8 and 12 weeks on here and we will put any mistakes correct, there's also big video guide on the stronglifts site once you look past mehdi's preachy sounding voice, a lot of the advice is good! Remember though at some point you will need to be eating more to keep lifts progressing! Hence my staggered calories above and weekly raises ??


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Ye, but he sais.
> 
> Month one:  5 sets of 10 reps at 50% of Training Max (TM).
> 
> So if bench 132, i have bench to bench 60 the first month?


 Yes that's how it works for the BBB sets, then it gradually increases.

The more important part of it is the 5/3/1 section core exercise.

Get strong and "big" will come with it.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Guys, found this program on reddit, a skinnyfat-transformation. What do u think?

What worked for me;

work out your TDEE by going here: http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/

Realise that if you go over your tdee you will not lose fat. End of story.

Calculate 20% of your TDEE and subtract it from that. This is now your goal (if your tdee is 2000, 20% is 400, 2000 - 400 = 1600, your goal is 1600 a day). This is the most important figure you need to worry about.

download myFitnesspal and track everything so you know how much you are eating. This is important - most people estimate - and get it wrong. You have to make sure you track everything, you can weigh your food to be exact and this is what I do, but it might be a bit much for some people. You can estimate weight but make sure you log anything that enters your mouth

do a full body workout 3 days a week. Have a rest day in between. Mon - Wed - Fri is good. You can do any workout you want as long as it incorporates these lifts : bench, deadlift, squats, rows and pullups.

This is the workout I did to give you an idea of the amount of volume you should be getting in each workout, i didnt do deadlifts but did hyperextensions in stead due to a injured back;

Normal routine:

bench press 3x8 Seate d

Lateral Raises 3x8

Pull ups 3x8

Tricep Dip 3x8

Squat 3x8

Preacher Curl 3x8

Cable seated row - 3x10

Seated machine row - 3x10

Machine reverse Flyes - 3x8

Hyperextensions - 3x15

Cut out all sugar

Cut out all starchy carbs( all breads, pastas, potatoes etc)

Make sure you are getting 1.2g/lb of protein a day. This is important to maintain and build muscle mass while eating at a deficit. If you log everything in MyFitnessPal, you can view it this way

Weigh yourself at the same time once a week. Record this. If you are losing weight, carry on. If you are staying the same or gaining weight, cut your calories by a further 100 per day. Rinse and repeat.

Tips

Always do perfect form in every exercise. If you can't, then lower the weight. No one cares what you lift.

Stick to your calorie goal, this is important and even more so then working out

Don't do any cardio at all, it is much easier to eat less then to train more. Cardio is also detrimental to mass gain

The lifts given might be boring but they build mass and strength fast, especially on a beginner

Drink at least 3 liters of water a day and get 8-9 hours of sleep. This makes a huge difference.

If you f**k up, and you will, just let it go. The worst thing you can do is say "oh i f**ked up, might as well eat like s**t for a week". One day doesnt matter, its the weekly average that counts.

In 3 months, this has reduced by body fat from 25% to 19% and I was able to put in around 5lbs of muscle.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Stick to stronglifts and squatting 3x a week, it's a very efficient program, download the app and start from the very beginning!
> 
> 20kg squat, bench, ohp, 30kg rows and 40kg deadlift and get the form bang on! Add 2.5kg per week (5kg for deadlifts) and if you can get some fractional plates for ohp they are ideal as that will stall first!
> 
> ...


 U have right, but i have lifted a 4 day program since january now, so it would be a bit hard to go back to a 3 day program 

But isnt it possible to find any good 4 day beginners program out there which includes the big excercies(squat etc)?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

30 sets three times a week of 8-10 reps is way too much!

just do stronglifts 5x5 and followcalories as I have laid out, every man and his dog have an idea on how to best go about beginners, but from experience you want to be getting stronger, the more weight you lift the more calories you burn! Using 3x8 and 3x10 wont develop strength anywhere near as fast as 5x5, your trying to find a quick way, the truth is the above isn't a beginners program! It's a 30 set, plus warmups workout, which will take over an hr or more to complete, you don't need that, a little cardio won't hurt, but 2x20 min sessions is fine, don't do too much too soon or you will be playing all your fat loss cards at once



smash00 said:


> U have right, but i have lifted a 4 day program since january now, so it would be a bit hard to go back to a 3 day program
> 
> But isnt it possible to find any good 4 day beginners program out there which includes the big excercies(squat etc)?


 Why if it will get you where you want to be faster? That's just daft... there's a reason most beginners programs are 3 day programs perhaps? First off how much do you grow in the gym, do you think you will grow 1.33 times quicker in four sessions vs 3 if your going hard and full on?

more isn't nesc better

if you really insist on doing 4 sessions have a look at a upper lower setup and hit everything twice a week, but that's more intermediate and you will spend 1.5-2x longer getting to the same point as with stronglifts for example due to how the program is setup, it's up to you, personally I'd go for the most efficient way of focusing on getting from a to b


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## kane7 (Mar 6, 2018)

smash00 said:


> Thanks  but whats the thing about low carb? To much carb gives u more belly fat?


 The idea behind the *low*-*carb diet* is that decreasing *carbs *lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and ultimately leads to weight loss.


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## Pr1me (Jul 29, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Im 187 lbs, with a high body fat-percetage. My height is 6'1. and I wanna build muscle and get lean, but have a low bf%.
> 
> 1) Bulk and add muscle, but then i will look alot more fatter and have a higher BF
> 
> ...


 Cut but keep protein intake high.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

kane7 said:


> The idea behind the *low*-*carb diet* is that decreasing *carbs *lowers insulin levels, which causes the body to burn stored fat for energy and ultimately leads to weight loss.


 And makes zero difference to fat loss compared to a medium carb diet of the same calories


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

An actual established full body routine and not a janky one you found on Reddit written by a monkey. Protein high, eat at maintenance or 500 below it's up to you, Spend the extra fourth day in the gym you so desire to work on your posture and cardio, Also stop looking for some magically diet or routine there is none. It's the basics and that's it for the first 2-3 years.


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## doopy (Jun 2, 2017)

recomposiiton, eat at maintenance or a small deficit and lift heavy


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## kane7 (Mar 6, 2018)

superdrol said:


> And makes zero difference to fat loss compared to a medium carb diet of the same calories


 True - all boils down to total calories in & total calories out in the end.

However, for some people, low carb diets seem to make fat burning *quicker, but lose the same amount of fat as someone who had medium/high carbs with the same calorie intake*. Whether this is scientifically proven, I'm not sure.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

kane7 said:


> True - all boils down to total calories in & total calories out in the end.
> 
> However, for some people, low carb diets seem to make fat burning *quicker, but lose the same amount of fat as someone who had medium/high carbs with the same calorie intake*. Whether this is scientifically proven, I'm not sure.


 I was gonna add that some people definately do favour low carb, inc some of lads on here who say it by experience rather than bro science

ive also been told stuff that flys in the face of convention that's worked so I'll never say never, and I'd also try lower carb, lower fats and combinations as although studies prove one thing, I also know that some people favour bulking on higher fats, some on higher carbs as proved by science so why would cutting be any different, but again it's not proven so I don't tend to get into it...


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> An actual established full body routine and not a janky one you found on Reddit written by a monkey. Protein high, eat at maintenance or 500 below it's up to you, Spend the extra fourth day in the gym you so desire to work on your posture and cardio, Also stop looking for some magically diet or routine there is none. It's the basics and that's it for the first 2-3 years.


 I am currently running a U/L program from Fierce 5, 4 day/week. Is actually the same as the full body ones, with squat/bench/OHP etc, but added on a few more excercies like Face Pulls/triceps pressdown etc.

I also try to eat alot of protein, reduce the carbs and eat like 400 kcals in deficit.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

doopy said:


> recomposiiton, eat at maintenance or a small deficit and lift heavy


 Whats do u think about eating in a 400 kcals deficit, which in my case would be 2100/2200 kcals daily? My TDEE is 2500/2600.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> 30 sets three times a week of 8-10 reps is way too much!
> 
> just do stronglifts 5x5 and followcalories as I have laid out, every man and his dog have an idea on how to best go about beginners, but from experience you want to be getting stronger, the more weight you lift the more calories you burn! Using 3x8 and 3x10 wont develop strength anywhere near as fast as 5x5, your trying to find a quick way, the truth is the above isn't a beginners program! It's a 30 set, plus warmups workout, which will take over an hr or more to complete, you don't need that, a little cardio won't hurt, but 2x20 min sessions is fine, don't do too much too soon or you will be playing all your fat loss cards at once
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the answer bro.

I am currently running a U/L program from Fierce 5 and i try to increase my weights week by week, have gone good so far. The program is also quiet easy, and contains OHP/bench/deadlift/squat etc. It takes me 45 min to complete.

But should i change from 3x8 to 5x5? Many of the excercies in the program is like 3x10 etc.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Thanks for the answer bro.
> 
> I am currently running a U/L program from Fierce 5 and i try to increase my weights week by week, have gone good so far. The program is also quiet easy, and contains OHP/bench/deadlift/squat etc. It takes me 45 min to complete.
> 
> But should i change from 3x8 to 5x5? Many of the excercies in the program is like 3x10 etc.


 No, stick to a program for at least twelve weeks until you can't make progress anymore, it will soon get hard, use the lighter end of it to get your form correct, don't just move the weight, do some reading on correct form for each exercise and focus on that, it won't be easy once it starts getting heavy! 

your not at a stage where you now how to alter a workout or adjust as your relatively new

consistancy is key 

i will say though that your doing fierce 5 upper/lower which is an intermediate lifting program (by the designers own description), as much as you are enjoying it you would benefit from a beginners program until your squat and deadlift are topside of 120kg if they are then crack on, but if not your better doing a beginners program and your progress will be way quicker


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

smash00 said:


> I am currently running a U/L program from Fierce 5, 4 day/week. Is actually the same as the full body ones, with squat/bench/OHP etc, but added on a few more excercies like Face Pulls/triceps pressdown etc.
> 
> I also try to eat alot of protein, reduce the carbs and eat like 400 kcals in deficit.


 It's not the same as it's for intermediates when you are barley a beginner, if you enjoy it crack on but you're getting sub optimal results


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

anna1 said:


> For starters join a gym
> 
> x


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

A tidy diet at maintenance and a strength training programme will see you well you have newb gainz on your side of need to over think things


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## anna1 (Mar 22, 2014)

Jakemaguire said:


> View attachment 151785


 Haha

Didn't mean to offend anyone but people when starting out ( and I include myself) tend to overthink and just make everything very difficult for no reason

x


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> It's not the same as it's for intermediates when you are barley a beginner, if you enjoy it crack on but you're getting sub optimal results


 Begynners should focus on COMPOUND MOVEMENTS, not full body workouts. why you would want to give a beginner that much muscle to repair on a daily basis is beyond me. further beginners need less sets and more reps. Beginners need balance training etc. neuromuscular control. NOT FULL BODY WORKOUTS. Splits are the way to go for size. endurance and other reasons can use full body (ex. obesity or people with hypertension etc.).

This is the answer i got from a online personal trainer while asking fullbody or spilt. Thoughts?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Jakemaguire said:


> A tidy diet at maintenance and a strength training programme will see you well you have newb gainz on your side of need to over think things


 Ye u right. But wouldn't it be better for me to be in a small deficit, to get rid of that fat, while lifting?


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Begynners should focus on COMPOUND MOVEMENTS, not full body workouts. why you would want to give a beginner that much muscle to repair on a daily basis is beyond me. further beginners need less sets and more reps. Beginners need balance training etc. neuromuscular control. NOT FULL BODY WORKOUTS. Splits are the way to go for size. endurance and other reasons can use full body (ex. obesity or people with hypertension etc.).
> 
> This is the answer i got from a online personal trainer while asking fullbody or spilt. Thoughts?


 That personal trainer is a complete retard and never ever have another conversation with him again if you value your body at all. If you want to make 0 progress carry on taking advice from imbeciles who want money for their advice or take free advice here from people who actually want to help and know what they are talking about.

90% of the fitness industry is all scams and bullshit, the real information really isn't hard it's very basic.


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Ye u right. But wouldn't it be better for me to be in a small deficit, to get rid of that fat, while lifting?


 You will be fine mate just keep it clean and do a bit of cardio at the beginning stages of training the body can make some crazy changes


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Jakemaguire said:


> You will be fine mate just keep it clean and do a bit of cardio at the beginning stages of training the body can make some crazy changes


 But what about the workoutprogram, can I go for a upper/lower program, as long as i enjoy it?


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

smash00 said:


> But what about the workoutprogram, can I go for a upper/lower program, as long as i enjoy it?


 Of course you can, make sure you track your lifts and be sure to progressively overload


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## Jakemaguire (Feb 17, 2016)

anna1 said:


> Haha
> 
> Didn't mean to offend anyone but people when starting out ( and I include myself) tend to overthink and just make everything very difficult for no reason
> 
> x


 @anna1 offend people whenever and wherever you can it makes life much more entertaining


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Jakemaguire said:


> Of course you can, make sure you track your lifts and be sure to progressively overload


 Okok thanks.

But carbs, should i reduce it? My protein is high, my fat is 50-60 grams per day.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Okok thanks.
> 
> But carbs, should i reduce it? My protein is high, my fat is 50-60 grams per day.


 Over thinking, is your weight staying the same or dropping slightly ie 1-2lb a month? If yes then stick with what your doing, swapping 10g of protein for 10g of carbs makes zero difference in reality as a beginner! I'd personally push calories up as I said in the first place until you start to gain weight and then knock them back by 200, you'll be optimal then for burning a bit of fat and building muscle! Or for decent strength gains just keep increasing as long as you don't gain over 2lb a month you'll still lose fat to a degree!

most people underestimate maintenance

and no that personal trainer is a douche, ignore him!

at the end of the day you can do whatever workout you like, however progress won't be optimal as a beginner with an upper lower twice a week, the quicker you can start lifting heavier the faster and more efficiently you will add mass and strip fat but you seem to keep ignoring what people are trying to say because you like something and think it's somehow better than a proper beginners program for actual beginners


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Ahhh ok.
> 
> But the case is that here in norwegian, then my weight is 85 kg, which will be, 85*2(the same as 1lb)=170 gram of protein.
> 
> Yes, 2300 kcals is ok, but i try to reduce it a bit, so i am at 2100 atm.


 By the way, lb to kg is x2.2, so 187 is 1g/lb, and in a cut I'd go for at least that, maybe even 200g

if you want to cut I'd go for 200g protein which is 800 calories

200g carbs which is 800 calories

and the rest from good fats so 450 day which is 50g fats which makes 2050 plus a bit for fibre and your at 2100 I'd think


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## doopy (Jun 2, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Whats do u think about eating in a 400 kcals deficit, which in my case would be 2100/2200 kcals daily? My TDEE is 2500/2600.


 you are just going to start lifting u dont even need to track ur kcal, don't eat garbage lift heavy follow a program and you'll see changes


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Over thinking, is your weight staying the same or dropping slightly ie 1-2lb a month? If yes then stick with what your doing, swapping 10g of protein for 10g of carbs makes zero difference in reality as a beginner! I'd personally push calories up as I said in the first place until you start to gain weight and then knock them back by 200, you'll be optimal then for burning a bit of fat and building muscle! Or for decent strength gains just keep increasing as long as you don't gain over 2lb a month you'll still lose fat to a degree!
> 
> most people underestimate maintenance
> 
> ...


 Ye i understand, but i have a high bf percentage, and the faster i get rid of the fat, the easier will it be later. And as a beginner its possible to gain muscle and get rid of the fat at the same time, so dont actually see the problem.

Anyways, will stop takling now and get to the fakkin gym. Thanks for all the recommendations


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Ye i understand, but i have a high bf percentage, and the faster i get rid of the fat, the easier will it be later. And as a beginner its possible to gain muscle and get rid of the fat at the same time, so dont actually see the problem.
> 
> Anyways, will stop takling now and get to the fakkin gym. Thanks for all the recommendations


 Sorry but you have that a bit ass backwards, the faster you get rid of the fat the more likely you are to be in effect doing a crash diet and also the likely good of rebound is way higher, it didn't take you 16 weeks to get fat so why do you assume it will fall off overnight, slow n steady wins the race and you will gain some muscle aswell for sure

the lower you drop your cals and the faster you go the more muscle you will waste away and the less muscle you will build

you dont really have a high body fat percentage, just no muscle and saggy fat bits, good on you for getting rid of them, but another important thing is do it too quick and you will have loose skin everywhere also, have you been a lot fatter than this previously? Or is this about it?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Sorry but you have that a bit ass backwards, the faster you get rid of the fat the more likely you are to be in effect doing a crash diet and also the likely good of rebound is way higher, it didn't take you 16 weeks to get fat so why do you assume it will fall off overnight, slow n steady wins the race and you will gain some muscle aswell for sure
> 
> the lower you drop your cals and the faster you go the more muscle you will waste away and the less muscle you will build
> 
> you dont really have a high body fat percentage, just no muscle and saggy fat bits, good on you for getting rid of them, but another important thing is do it too quick and you will have loose skin everywhere also, have you been a lot fatter than this previously? Or is this about it?


 Ye u right. But i have tried to bulk before/eat a bit above maintance, trying to add some musclemass, but i got a much higher bf. So i am scared to get the same result again, because its a hell of a job to then remove all the fat again.

I am fukkin unsure now. Someone sais cut, and someone maintance.

And no, have always been skinny with saggy fat and low musclemass, but with a normal weight.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Cut but gently or maintenance and slowly increase as your maintenance do, personally if building strength id do maintenance or build it up slowly as I described on page 1, but that's with stronglifts and squatting three times a week  Maybe 50 cals a week which is steady enough and just keep an eye on scales to judge, start a log and post weight as you go if you want some advice bud 

your also assuming your maintenance is an exact figure, you will have a band of calories where your weight remains the same as I also explained in an earlier post


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Ye u right. But i have tried to bulk before/eat a bit above maintance, trying to add some musclemass, but i got a much higher bf. So i am scared to get the same result again, because its a hell of a job to then remove all the fat again.
> 
> I am fukkin unsure now. Someone sais cut, and someone maintance.
> 
> And no, have always been skinny with saggy fat and low musclemass, but with a normal weight.


 It's easier to cut fat than to gain muscle mate


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Cut but gently or maintenance and slowly increase as your maintenance do, personally if building strength id do maintenance or build it up slowly as I described on page 1, but that's with stronglifts and squatting three times a week  Maybe 50 cals a week which is steady enough and just keep an eye on scales to judge, start a log and post weight as you go if you want some advice bud
> 
> your also assuming your maintenance is an exact figure, you will have a band of calories where your weight remains the same as I also explained in an earlier post


 What do u mean by a gently cut? 100-200 kcals under maintance?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> It's easier to cut fat than to gain muscle mate


 Whats ur advice then? Maintance? Or cut?


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Whats ur advice then? Maintance? Or cut?


 You're new to lifting have no muscle and can make noob gains, i'd eat at maintenance or just above and get on a good full body workout programme and come back in a year.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> You're new to lifting have no muscle and can make noob gains, i'd eat at maintenance or just above and get on a good full body workout programme and come back in a year.


 Ok, i will go for it then.

But when u see my body, do u see a high BF, or a body which lack of musclemass?


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Ok, i will go for it then.
> 
> But when u see my body, do u see a high BF, or a body which lack of musclemass?


 skinny fat isn't a high bf it's medium you just look fat because you've got no muscle. Most people can look huge at 15% bf


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Ok, i will go for it then.
> 
> But when u see my body, do u see a high BF, or a body which lack of musclemass?


 Does it really matter?? different people see different things anyway! Ask 100 different people how to sort your body and you'll get 100 answers all different  I hope youve been to the gym 3 times this week


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Does it really matter?? different people see different things anyway! Ask 100 different people how to sort your body and you'll get 100 answers all different  I hope youve been to the gym 3 times this week


 I'v been to the gym 4 times this week. Enjoying the u/l program.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

orangeandpears said:


> skinny fat isn't a high bf it's medium you just look fat because you've got no muscle. Most people can look huge at 15% bf


 Ye, at 15% bf. But my bf is like 23-24%.

Would't it then me better for me to cut down to 15% bodyfat, and then bulk?


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

f**k off your 24%? don't look that bad in the pic you only have fat in abs and chest, 0 everywhere else


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

orangeandpears said:


> f**k off your 24%? don't look that bad in the pic you only have fat in abs and chest, 0 everywhere else


 Don't forget if you keep the same fat and add more muscle the percentage drops same in reverse, if he had double the muscle he wouldn't be 15%, so 24% is very believable

i was 24% by dexa but had a load more muscle and a bit more fat, if he has not much muscle (check) and a fair bit of fat (check) then that effects the percentage badly... but in effect as soon as he puts muscle on and drops some fat it will soon swing round the other way quickly!


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## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> @smash00 My body looked exactly like that including the shitty posture when i started. I'm also the same height as you.
> 
> I cant stress enough that I would advise against trying to bulk first, I did the same got very high bf and ended up having to cut for a whole year. It was legitimately hell for me.
> 
> ...


 Listen to this advice, cut then lean bulk with a program like stronglifts


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## orangeandpears (Dec 16, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Don't forget if you keep the same fat and add more muscle the percentage drops same in reverse, if he had double the muscle he wouldn't be 15%, so 24% is very believable
> 
> i was 24% by dexa but had a load more muscle and a bit more fat, if he has not much muscle (check) and a fair bit of fat (check) then that effects the percentage badly... but in effect as soon as he puts muscle on and drops some fat it will soon swing round the other way quickly!


 You think a lean bulk is best? surely noob gains would allow him to just bulk his way out of being skinny fat, can't imagine him getting even fatter deadlifting and squatting x2 a week


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

orangeandpears said:


> You think a lean bulk is best? surely noob gains would allow him to just bulk his way out of being skinny fat, can't imagine him getting even fatter deadlifting and squatting x2 a week


 I think it's a balance a lot of people cock up very easily, I'd rather tell him to slowly increase calories and cut a little in the initial light weight part of stronglifts or whatever program and then eat a bit more each week, increasing steadily until he starts to gain a little weight (by which point it will be heavier and he'll need the extra) and stick at that for a bit, top end of maintenance if you would (maintenance is a band as opposed to a set number, find top end to recomp nicely) then just add 100 a month if required

i think if he bulked he'd put on some extra fat, have a read of what I suggested on page one, he would progress way quicker doing a beginner program and slowly increasing calories as it gets heavier to prevent stalling, IMO he will get further doing a proper beginner program than picking an intermediate program


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

B3NCH1 said:


> Listen to this advice, cut then lean bulk with a program like stronglifts


 Listen to the advise?

Everyone sais to be at maintance, why cut then?


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> I think it's a balance a lot of people cock up very easily, I'd rather tell him to slowly increase calories and cut a little in the initial light weight part of stronglifts or whatever program and then eat a bit more each week, increasing steadily until he starts to gain a little weight (by which point it will be heavier and he'll need the extra) and stick at that for a bit, top end of maintenance if you would (maintenance is a band as opposed to a set number, find top end to recomp nicely) then just add 100 a month if required
> 
> i think if he bulked he'd put on some extra fat, have a read of what I suggested on page one, he would progress way quicker doing a beginner program and slowly increasing calories as it gets heavier to prevent stalling, IMO he will get further doing a proper beginner program than picking an intermediate program


 Tried to bulk before, when i lifted for a smaller period. My weight increased to 95kg, and my stomach fat was alot more chubby, didnt look good.

The two options i have is:

Cut - keep removing the fat, and maybe try to put on some musclemass, The downside is that i will be small as fukk.

Maintance - the fatloss wil go alot slower, but i will gain muscle faster.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Tried to bulk before, when i lifted for a smaller period. My weight increased to 95kg, and my stomach fat was alot more chubby, didnt look good.
> 
> The two options i have is:
> 
> ...


 You build way too fast if you got chubbier, too big an excess!

At the end of the day it's down to what YOU want, cutting and bulking will get you there faster, and you will still add a little muscle if you don't go too hard... 4lb a month maybe... a stone in 4months (in reality you'll have added some muscle too so you will have lost more than 4lb of day each month 8 months will see results

vs

Maintenance will take longer, maybe 12 months to get to the same point I reckon


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> You build way too fast if you got chubbier, too big an excess!
> 
> At the end of the day it's down to what you want, cutting and bulking will get you there faster, and you will still add a little muscle if you don't go too hard... 4lb a month maybe... a stone in 4months (in reality you'll have added some muscle too so you will have lost more than 4lb of day each month 8 months will see results vs
> 
> Maintenance will take longer, maybe 12 months to get to the same point I reckon


 Look here, this is after i eat a big meal.

Like u see, alot of fat, so bulk is not a option.

Cut or maintace?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Look here, this is after i eat a big meal.
> 
> Like u see, alot of fat, so bulk is not a option.
> 
> ...


 Yeah your a bit fat we got that bit buddy! Which bit of its upto you have you missed so far about my last post yet you ask again? Or several bits of advice in this thread? Which are probably 50/50 cut or maintenance... just do what you need to do and just pick what you want and is most important to you here and now, good luck


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Yeah your a bit fat we got that bit buddy! Which bit of its upto you have you missed so far about my last post yet you ask again? Or several bits of advice in this thread? Which are probably 50/50 cut or maintenance... just do what you need to do and just pick what you want and is most important to you here and now, good luck


 Personally i would like to cut my weight down to 179 lbs and 14% bf, with heavy lifting.

Look at this guy,









Skinnyfat aswell, lifted hard on a cut. The last pic is where i want to be, and then bulk


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Personally i would like to cut my weight down to 179 lbs and 14% bf, with heavy lifting.
> 
> Look at this guy,
> 
> Skinnyfat aswell, lifted hard on a cut. The last pic is where i want to be, and then bulk


 So cut then, but to get there you'll be way less than 179 if your 186 now, try 165 probably


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> So cut then, but to get there you'll be way less than 179 if your 186 now, try 165 probably


 Yes, 165-170, and then bulk.

What u think?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Yes, 165-170, and then bulk.
> 
> What u think?


 Right in big letters for the fourth time - ITS UPTO YOU!!!


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## Mr Wuppet (Mar 22, 2017)

Not to be mean, but your BF is way above 24%. My current BF is 24% (using Navy Method; calipers are too inaccurate), and my abs are slightly visible following a workout. Most people greatly underestimate their bodyfat levels.

Eat at a slight caloric deficit, don't reduce carbs too much (because they affect performance in the gym), use a 3-day full-body routine, and add cardio on your rest days. Take one rest day per week, or go for a long walk or something. Once you start to stall repeatedly on the main lifts, move to a 4-day routine (e.g., UL split).


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

orangeandpears said:


> You think a lean bulk is best? surely noob gains would allow him to just bulk his way out of being skinny fat, can't imagine him getting even fatter deadlifting and squatting x2 a week


 It definitely can


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

smash00 said:


> Yes, 165-170, and then bulk.
> 
> What u think?


 cut to 165 and reasses. these are just numbers.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Mr Wuppet said:


> Not to be mean, but your BF is way above 24%. My current BF is 24% (using Navy Method; calipers are too inaccurate), and my abs are slightly visible following a workout. Most people greatly underestimate their bodyfat levels.
> 
> Eat at a slight caloric deficit, don't reduce carbs too much (because they affect performance in the gym), use a 3-day full-body routine, and add cardio on your rest days. Take one rest day per week, or go for a long walk or something. Once you start to stall repeatedly on the main lifts, move to a 4-day routine (e.g., UL split).


 Slight deficit?

I am currently eating like 600-650 kcals under maintance.


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## Mr Wuppet (Mar 22, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Slight deficit?
> 
> I am currently eating like 600-650 kcals under maintance.


 Start with that if you want, doesn't really matter to begin with. What is important is the rate of fat loss; aim for 1-2% BF loss per week. Note that the scale weight might stay the same or even go up, but measure your waist with a tape measure. If your weight is the same/going up, but your waist is getting smaller, you know you're gaining muscle and losing fat, which is entirely possible in the first year of lifting.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Mr Wuppet said:


> Start with that if you want, doesn't really matter to begin with. What is important is the rate of fat loss; aim for 1-2% BF loss per week. Note that the scale weight might stay the same or even go up, but measure your waist with a tape measure. If your weight is the same/going up, but your waist is getting smaller, you know you're gaining muscle and losing fat, which is entirely possible in the first year of lifting.


 Ye sure, and thanks 

But what kind of a workoutprogram should i go for? Can i go for a 4-day, u/l/split?

3-days is so fukkin boring, and cardio is not a option.


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## Mr Wuppet (Mar 22, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Ye sure, and thanks
> 
> But what kind of a workoutprogram should i go for? Can i go for a 4-day, u/l/split?
> 
> 3-days is so fukkin boring, and cardio is not a option.


 Why is cardio not an option? Walk more, go for a run, do boxing, whatever. Personally, I prefer low-impact cardio like swimming. Squatting 3 times a week is better than twice to begin with, because more frequency improves the motor pattern more quickly. First few weeks of lifting is pretty much all neural rather than muscular adaptation.

3-day routines with high frequency, low volume are also designed to manage recovery, which you will lack compared to an advanced lifter. I've moved back to a 3-day full-body routine myself to get back into lifting and I add 1-5 kg to each main lift every session. My deadlift goes up 15 kg per week in this manner. If you only trained deadlift once per week, you may add only 5 kg each time. My progress would therefore be 3 times quicker than yours, in simple terms.

But if you are really insistent on training 4 times per week, I recommend Candito's Linear program, which is a 4-day upper-lower split. Download the PDF; there are 3 versions that you can alternate. 1st is General Strength/Powerlifting, 2nd is General Strength/Hypertrophy, 3rd is General Strength/Power (good for athletes).

Most people in this thread recommend 3-day routines for beginners for a reason; they fu**ing work!


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Ye sure, and thanks
> 
> But what kind of a workoutprogram should i go for? Can i go for a 4-day, u/l/split?
> 
> 3-days is so fukkin boring, and cardio is not a option.


 Boring but quicker to get you where you need to be... which is the bit you seem to miss, 3 day a week beginners routines are designed as such to allow faster progress due to better rest and weight added constantly for longer before stalling and have additional tweaks when you do stall

and cardio is an option, if you mean you can't be arsed, unless you can't walk cardio is an option


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

But guys, if i keep loosing pounds to 174 lbs, are u sure that my fat will be gone? Because i have very little musclemass underneath the stomachfat.


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## Mr Wuppet (Mar 22, 2017)

smash00 said:


> But guys, if i keep loosing pounds to 174 lbs, are u sure that my fat will be gone? Because i have very little musclemass underneath the stomachfat.


 If you're not a troll, then stop over-analysing; "paralysis by analysis" gets you nowhere. Follow people's advice or don't; no-ones forcing you to do anything. You can get results by training 10 times a week, or once a week; the point is, the optimal is around 3-4 times per week for a beginner. Loads of evidence to support this.


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Mr Wuppet said:


> If you're not a troll, then stop over-analysing; "paralysis by analysis" gets you nowhere. Follow people's advice or don't; no-ones forcing you to do anything. You can get results by training 10 times a week, or once a week; the point is, the optimal is around 3-4 times per week for a beginner. Loads of evidence to support this.


 Ye, but i am asking about the fat loss, because i need to get rid of the belly fat first.

I am not comfortable with the body as it is now with all the fat.


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## Mr Wuppet (Mar 22, 2017)

smash00 said:


> Ye, but i am asking about the fat loss, because i need to get rid of the belly fat first.
> 
> I am not comfortable with the body as it is now with all the fat.


 Then the obvious answer is to cut. How drastic you cut calories depends on the amount of cardio you do as well. You say cardio isn't an option, but if you do some, then you won't have to cut carbs as drastically. As I mentioned previously, aim for 1-2% BF loss per week. Weigh yourself in the mornings (ideally every day) and measure your waist (at least once per week).


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> But guys, if i keep loosing pounds to 174 lbs, are u sure that my fat will be gone? Because i have very little musclemass underneath the stomachfat.


 Keep going round in circles bud and people just won't reply anymore, no we don't know what you'll need to cut too, we aren't gods or miracle workers or I'd be putting the lottery on, pick a method and do it is the only way to find out, but you'd have lost four pound in the time it's took to work out what YOU want to do... it's in big letters again! It's upto you, it's not an exact science we don't know if your gonna stick to something or yo-yo, we've recommended a proper beginners training programme but you don't listen, you want to know this and that like its fact, it's all opinion and no one has said you will be fat free at 174lb, no one can and if you think that way in certainty's you need to just give up, the way to find out is just crack on! Your fat, you dont want to be fat, decide how YOU want to do it, be prepared to fail in finding out what's best for you and just crack on!! Your just going round in circles, pick one and do it for 12 weeks! Don't change your mind or it's a complete waste of time! Jesus your the most indecisive person I've ever seen! You'll be bulking next haha!!


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

Guys, thanks for ur advice.

I have decided to cut, get down to 14-15% bf, and then bulk up.

So i will go 1000 kcals in deficit now, lift 3-4 times a week, try to loose 1-2 lbs every week? Thoughts?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Go into a 1000 cal deficit now and you won't have any more calories to cut when you stall

cut on as many calories as you can lose weight steadily on, then slowly reduce them as you stall, then add in cardio, then reduce a little more, then add in a bit more cardio

start low and you'll stall quickly, the body try's to stay in homeostasis, losing or gaining nothing, doubling calorie deficit doesn't double weight loss, it just gets to a stall at the same time


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## smash00 (May 31, 2017)

superdrol said:


> Go into a 1000 cal deficit now and you won't have any more calories to cut when you stall
> 
> cut on as many calories as you can lose weight steadily on, then slowly reduce them as you stall, then add in cardio, then reduce a little more, then add in a bit more cardio
> 
> start low and you'll stall quickly, the body try's to stay in homeostasis, losing or gaining nothing, doubling calorie deficit doesn't double weight loss, it just gets to a stall at the same time


 Going into a 200-300 kcal deficit will take alot alot more time, then a 800-1000 kcals defiicit.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smash00 said:


> Going into a 200-300 kcal deficit will take alot alot more time, then a 800-1000 kcals defiicit.


 You didn't gain it overnight yet you think your body is suddenly going to be happy about losing it, I've even explained why what your thinking won't work for long enough to get where you want to be in decent detail and you know best, I'm done with advice sorry, enjoy your cut


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