# Bulking - Small or Big Suprlus?



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Will you gain the same amount of muscle on a small surplus(say 100cals) than on a big surplus(500cals)?

Seeing as muscle gain is painstakingly slow natty, is there a benefit in being on a bigger surplus or not?

People always say you need to eat big to get big. The way I see it is if you eat to get big, you'll just get fat. Fair enough if you can build more muscle being on a bigger surplus so if anyone could clarify please.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

MFM said:


> Will you gain the same amount of muscle on a small surplus(say 100cals) than on a big surplus(500cals)?
> 
> Seeing as muscle gain is painstakingly slow natty, is there a benefit in being on a bigger surplus or not?
> 
> People always say you need to eat big to get big. The way I see it is if you eat to get big, you'll just get fat. Fair enough if you can build more muscle being on a bigger surplus so if anyone could clarify please.


How longs a piece of string? Everyone is different. If you're naturally very lean and have a hard time holding/gaining weight - your surplus is likely going to be bigger.

If you tend to store bodyfat easily, you'd have a smaller surplus to minimise fat gain.

Trial & error..


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

to be in a surplus of 100cals is pretty difficult since calculating your maintenance is not an exact science and you could be a bit out, 500cals is more like it and should yield better results but nothing is set in stone, keep an eye on your bf and adjust accordingly.

What are your stats?


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

ah24 said:


> How longs a piece of string? Everyone is different. If you're naturally very lean and have a hard time holding/gaining weight - your surplus is likely going to be bigger.
> 
> If you tend to store bodyfat easily, you'd have a smaller surplus to minimise fat gain.
> 
> Trial & error..


Thing is I've been in a surplus of around 300cals a day for the last few months with no shift in weight on the scales, yet my bf has increased slightly so it must mean I'm eating over maintenance? Just baffled that there has been no increase in weight.


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

your weeight has stayed the same but your bf has increase? well then you must have lost muscle mass............... what sort of changes are we talking about?


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## Marcus2014 (Mar 24, 2014)

There's too many variables for there to be a set number of calories you need to bulk. Some people can gain well on a small surplus, but myself am bulking on 1k surplus or else the gains are painfully slow even for a natty.

You need to figure out what's best for your body using the mirror and clothes and the scales last to tell you if your getting fat. I am lucky my misses tells me if I am getting fat lol


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

bigjohnc said:


> your weeight has stayed the same but your bf has increase? well then you must have lost muscle mass............... what sort of changes are we talking about?


Exactly. I don't think I've lost any muscle as I'm training my **** off but I've definitely gained a bit of fat.


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## farmer joe (Feb 8, 2014)

Are you sure your fat gains are fat and not water?


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

It's a very individual thing. Many people's bodies deal with surplus calories by ramping up their metabolism & increasing activity levels. I track my calories & activity with autistic precision on a spreadshest, and I tend to gain weight at about a third of the rate that my caloric surplus would predict.

One thing that has worked for me is to concentrate your surplus calories into the 24 hrs or so after a workout, when your nutrient partitioning is high & your body is growing, then eat at or slightly below maintenance all the rest of the time.


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

farmer joe said:


> Are you sure your fat gains are fat and not water?


Defo fat. My pants are tighter and the layer of fat on my lower abs/midsection has increased, although only slightly. Still enough for me to notice though.

If I can add, I wouldn't mind a bit of fat gain in the least if the rest of me got bigger in proportion. It's staying the same and adding fat that's p*ssing me off!


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

If you are gaining fat but the scales are saying you have not put weight on. Must be loss of muscle. Stats? Protein intake?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

As has been said, experimentation. If you're natty, bare in mind that once you're past the "newb gains phase" you're not really gonna gain more than 1-2lbs of lean mass per month on average, so the goal is to facilitate that without excessive fat gain. I've lost count of the amount of 160lb dudes trying to force it with 5000 kcals a day or some bollocks, and they just end up with a fat:muscle gain ratio of 3:1 or worse.


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## bigjohnc (Apr 10, 2014)

rsd147 said:


> If you are gaining fat but the scales are saying you have not put weight on. Must be loss of muscle. Stats? Protein intake?


Exactly, we need to know more about you.

Stats, diet, training routine and what sort of bf% change have you seen whilst maintaining the same weight.

My initial guess is that you may be over training and eating poorly thus the muscle loss and fat gain.


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

I said:


> As has been said' date=' experimentation. If you're natty, bare in mind that once you're past the "newb gains phase" you're not really gonna gain more than 1-2lbs of lean mass per month on average, so the goal is to facilitate that without excessive fat gain. I've lost count of the amount of 160lb dudes trying to force it with 5000 kcals a day or some bollocks, and they just end up with a fat:muscle gain ratio of 3:1 or worse.[/quote']
> 
> Agree and excess fat in turn leads to insulin insensitivity which leads to more fat gain,
> 
> Why pretty much every trainer likes to work of a lean base


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

rsd147 said:


> If you are gaining fat but the scales are saying you have not put weight on. Must be loss of muscle. Stats? Protein intake?


Have a look at my progress pics in 'Natural Bodybuilding' and you'll get a better idea.


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

MFM said:


> Have a look at my progress pics in 'Natural Bodybuilding' and you'll get a better idea.


It looks though you have added some muscle and kept fat off. Just keep doing what your doing. If it works, don't change


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## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

rsd147 said:


> It looks though you have added some muscle and kept fat off. Just keep doing what your doing. If it works, don't change


Thing is though, progress has stalled and I'm not adding any more size, just fat.


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

MFM said:


> Thing is though, progress has stalled and I'm not adding any more size, just fat.


Are you sure it is not just psychological? Scales are great but alot of people including myself go by mirror as it is easier to tell. Take progress pictures.

Track your cals, if you've stalled and not adding weight, add a bit more. Aim for around 1-2lbs a month, anything more maybe excess fat


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