# Confusion on training frequency for Nattys



## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

I read about training frequency and often threads on here posted alot about PPL, UL and full body routines. A lot of people state U/L routine is the better option for Natty's as it provides more frequency and hitting each muscle twice a week. Currently doing and enjoying, however, if its better to hit the muscle at least twice a week would a Full body workout be more optimal hitting each muscle 3 or even 4 times a week or does it all come down to recovery?

Thanks in advance


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The best method is person dependent. There are pros and cons of each. I do believe however that 2x a week will work well for most, especially if natty.

For 1x a week frequency, you can hit the muscle from several angles in one workout and trigger a significant growth response, after which you'd need to back off for a week to allow recovery. Problem is, protein synthesis in the muscle is only increased for a few days after a workout, so while it'll be healing and growing all week, it won't grow so well in the latter half of the week. Whereas in enhanced lifters, protein synthesis is constantly elevated, so this option becomes a lot more favourable. There's also the chance that the muscle will recover quicker than a week, meaning the muscle is left ready to go for days and may potentially regress in that time.

Full body workouts 3x a week obviously have an advantage of increased frequency. However, you'd generally use one exercise per major musclegroup. Beginners tend to respond very well to this type of training, whereas some more advanced trainees might find that one exercise on a particular muscle isn't enough to trigger a growth stimulus anymore.

2x per week such as an upper/lower is a happy medium that I believe most people would do well on. You can perform anywhere from 1-3 exercises per musclegroup each workout, whatever is needed to stimulate growth. You'll be training them again in 3-5 days, meaning in most cases protein synthesis is still elevated throughout most of the recovery process in natural trainees.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I did a 5 day split with lots of volume when I was natty,same as I do now.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

> The best method is person dependent.


This

There are loads of other variable other than natty v assisted to consider. There is no 'one fits all' answer. Body type aside, strength training based on the big compounds would be very different to a hypertrophy based routine.

I know for me 4 x full body workouts a week would just lead to injury if I went all out. I'd have to back off, miss session and have deload sessions.

What is probably best is to initially do what you feel you enjoy. After a while look at changing factors, from reps to sets to exercises to periodise things.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

3 days a week works for me with the odd 4th chucked in


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## forza84 (May 28, 2010)

i do 3 days a week if its balls out max weight sessions or 4 days a week for lighter ones. twice a month i do heavy to try and raise weight on the basics, squat, dead and bench. 9 out of 10 times it works.


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## Jamieson (Jul 11, 2014)

rsd147 said:


> I read about training frequency and often threads on here posted alot about PPL, UL and full body routines. A lot of people state U/L routine is the better option for Natty's as it provides more frequency and hitting each muscle twice a week. Currently doing and enjoying, however, if its better to hit the muscle at least twice a week would a Full body workout be more optimal hitting each muscle 3 or even 4 times a week or does it all come down to recovery?
> 
> Thanks in advance


As has been mentioned already, the key to continued progress is balancing frequency ( not simply looking at it as how often you train but more importantly how often you rest and allow the adaptation to take place) intensity (how hard you work relative to your momentary muscular ability and not simply based on the %1RM you're lifting) and over all volume (not just work sets but total work and TUL, which is often overlooked).

A good starting point is 3x whole body on non-non-consequtive days, but as you get more efficient at placing the desired stress on your muscles & CNS, you will likely be better off dropping to 2x a week or even once every 4/5 days, with some exercises like heavy Deads being done as infrequently as every 7-10 days.

The amount of volume and frequency you can tolerate is NOT the same thing as what is optimal for you to help you achieve your goals.

Start by setting your goals and then look at designing a programme based on how often you can be in the gym, how long you want to be in the gym your recovery ability, equipment available, style of training (i.e., there's no point saying 'I want to train negative only' if you don't have 2 good spotters to help you, or you want to do GVT but can only lift twice a week for 30 mins a time etc).

As a rule of thumb if you are going to MMF I'd only do 1 work set, if not then 1-3 work sets would probably be OK and allow for recovery but this is were you're own recovery ability has to be established. 3x a week you will soon burn out as a natty if you are going flat out every session. 1 way of getting round this is to do whole body 3x a week but make 1 session intense, the next very light and effectively like an extended warm up with little or no real effort put in and then the final workout a 'medium' session where you use the same weight as in the first session but stope 2 reps short of failure.

Anyway, best of luck!


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Train 6 days a week natty.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

3 days on 1 off works well for me.

Experiment a bit mate listen to your body.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

As said above it's individual dependent as to what works best generally but another thing to consider is that the body's ability to adapt often means that sticking with any one particular training mode for too long can lead to diminishing returns for the same effort, so changing things like frequency, average loading and volume every six months or so often can help keep progress more consistent (it never is a straight line but organized variation or periodization can certainly help avoid too many sticking points I think).

In regards to routines that allow for high frequency full body either three times per week or every other day is a great option, and is flexible too as if you have more individual exercises than you can comfortably include in one workout you can simply have two or three different versions of a full body routine and rotate them. A similar thing can be done with upper/lower routines. You can also vary the loading and reps, alternating between heavy and light, plenty of options to look at.


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## ohh_danielson (Oct 16, 2013)

Yeah I agree it's what suits that individual. Personally I train 5 times a week and hit my weak points twice a week (on the 5th session) .


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## The doog (Aug 6, 2013)

Push, pull, legs - low volume but training 5-7 times a week (each muscle group gets hit every 3-4 days).

When running drugs that are going to help with recovery. I would rather smash each muscle to a pulp with high volume every 7 days.

I've always switched up my frequency, volume and intensity.


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## xeb2300 (Feb 18, 2015)

Day one upper body. Day two lower body day 3 rest day four upper body b. Day five lower body b day six and seven rest.

Upper body A

Bench press 3 sets 6-8 reps

Barbell rows 3 sets 6-8 reps

Incline dumb bell press 3 sets 8-10 reps

Lat pulldowns 3 sets 8-10 reps

Side laterials 2 sets 8-10 reps

Triceps pushdowns 2 sets 8-10 reps

Dumbbell curl 2 sets 8-10 reps

Lower body A

RDLs 3 sets 6-8 reps

Leg press 3 sets 10-12 reps

Leg curls 3 sets 8-10 reps

Calves standing or sitting or use a leg press 3 sets 8-10 reps

Abs

Upper body B

Pull ups 3 sets 6-8 reps

Barbell shoulder press 3 sets 6-8 reps

Seated cable row 3 sets 8-10 reps

Dumbbell bench press 3 sets 8-10 reps

Dumbbell flyers 2 see 8-10 reps

Barbell or ez curl 2 sets 8-10 reps

Triceps extensions dumbbell or ez bar 2 sets 8-10 reps

Lower body B

Squats 3 sets 6-8 reps

Leg curls 3 sets 10-12 reps

Split squats dumbbells or barbell 3 sets 8-10 reps

Calves seated or leg press or extensions 4 sets 10-12 reps

Abs

Do it as heavy as you can and intense.


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## ImmortalTech (Feb 19, 2015)

As said it depends on the person, their lifestyle, genetic capability, musculature, experience etc...

Myself for example right now it's 2 days push/pull (upper body) and 1 day for squats per week as I am easing back into training pushing baby weights.

Normally I would do full body 3x a week as well as cardio, but I am not in good enough shape at the minute.

I have trained different muscle groups 5 days a week too, didn't respond as well to a split.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

xeb2300 said:


> Day one upper body. Day two lower body day 3 rest day four upper body b. Day five lower body b day six and seven rest.
> 
> Upper body A
> 
> ...


I must be doing something wrong.

I'd get barely half way through upper body B before being totally exhausted and totally out of energy to even make it to the water fountain.

The only way I'd be able to do that routine would be by keeping plenty in reserve and not training to failure which would leave me feeling like I wasn't trying hard enough.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> It's really not much volume..


Like I say, I must be doing something wrong. As per my other thread on this very topic, after 9 sets on 3x5 I'm wrecked and barely have the energy to wash myself in the shower. Doubling that volume would kill me.


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## xeb2300 (Feb 18, 2015)

The Sweeney said:


> I must be doing something wrong.
> 
> I'd get barely half way through upper body B before being totally exhausted and totally out of energy to even make it to the water fountain.
> 
> The only way I'd be able to do that routine would be by keeping plenty in reserve and not training to failure which would leave me feeling like I wasn't trying hard enough.


OK so lets have a look at this then.

How long have you been training?

How old are you?

You do not have to go to failure, it is a myth! Near it, very near it.

So to start this program find your one rep max for the Squat, leg press, bench press, Barbell shoulder press, barbell bent over rows, seated cable rows and the other main and secondary compound lifts. For the tri's and biceps exercises pick a weight that you can just get 8 reps from the last set. These muscles will get stronger from the compound lifts.

When you have your one rep max work out what 70% is for each lift. Use that answer to start the routine with. So your working sets are done with a weight that is 70% of your one rep max for that lift.

To ensure overload and progression you can do two things, depends upon your strength and energy levels.

1. Aim for the lower rep range to start with. When you can get 3 sets with 6 reps add the lowest amount of weight that you can next time you do bench press in four days time. Lets use bench press for an example. lets say your 1rm (1 rep max) is 100kg. Your working set will be 70 kg. You are able to do 3 sets each set 6 reps. So next time you do bench press you add weight and try to get 6 reps each set. Each time you get to 6 reps each set add weight.

2. Aim for the higher rep range then add weight. So this way takes longer for the weight you are lifting to get heavier, BUT you will be building a very strong and solid strength base. So lets go with the example of your bench press being 70kg. You achieve 3 sets of 6 reps. Next time you go for the first set you aim for 8 reps, the second set the same and the third. Now it is likely that you may get 8 on set 1 and 7 reps on set 2 and maybe 5 on set three. That is OK, you have still overloaded your muscles and they will respond by getting stronger. You keep at 70kg till you can do three sets at 8 reps then add weight and start the process again.

It is important to keep note of the weights you use.

Upper body A is on day one, Lowerbody A is day 2, day 3 is day off, upperbody B is day 4 and lowerbody B is day 5. Days 6&7 are days off.

If you struggle to do this then check out your diet, which does not always mean eat more, it may mean eat better stuff. The starting weights for this routine and every other routine is important.

I used this routine in 1990 to 1992 and went from 10.5 stone to 13.5 stone with a 30 inch waist. Training & coaching was my life everyday for two years. I started this routine last September after doing lots of other stuff for years and my bench press one rep max has gone up by 20kg. From January I have been using the same routine except that I train every other day, a rest day in between each of the four workouts. At 55 I found that I needed the extra rest. That is why I asked you how old you are. I am still managing to make progress at every workout be it extra reps or extra weight so I am very happy with my progress since September, after years of just maintaining. If I can help in any way please ask.


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## xeb2300 (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes I have seen it there. Difficult to come up with anything original when it comes to lifting and pushing weight's about! Aworkoutroutine is an excellent site and I recommend it to everyone. I did smile to myself when I first saw the site as it recommended the why I have trained since 1982 and coached others since the late 80's. It is full of good stuff. Bigger, Leaner Stronger by Mike Matthews is also worth a read, as is "Becoming a Supple Leopard" by Kelly Starrett. Robert dos Remedios has written some good stuff as well for all round strength and fitness. There is lots of good reading to be found out there, the secret is to find a routine that excites you and fuels your motivation, one that is based upon compound lifts and will work for those of us not using drugs, and stick to it. Do not chop and change routines. I got hooked by weight training and how the body works so took myself of to Uni to learn more, many years ago.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> The routine you posted looked familiar
> 
> The Muscle Building Workout Routine - Build Muscle Mass Fast


Thanks to this thread I've now ditched the Starting Strength program and am now starting the above program ^^ with a focus on quality, form and intensity.

I look forwards to the results.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> The routine you posted looked familiar
> 
> The Muscle Building Workout Routine - Build Muscle Mass Fast


Getting into this routine now and really enjoying it.

The extra intensity brought on by the higher reps and shorter rest periods is leaving me feeling like I've really worked the muscles.

Seems weird doing specific arm work - my pipe cleaners don't know what's hit them!


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

When I was natty, I found that a full-body 3x week gave me the best gains of my life. You need to curtail the volume though.

Since going on the sauce, I've been using the PPL system hitting each muscle group twice a week. On blasts I do full PPL 6 days a week, and on cruises it's Push & Legs/Pull 4 days a week. I tried the 3/week, but I seem to respond to volume better now that I'm enhanced.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> but I seem to respond to volume better now that I'm enhanced.


Don't those long finger nails make curls a pain in the ass?


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Body part dependant for me.

Chest didn't see any real growth until I hit it twice a week.

Everything else grew and got stronger with one work out a week.

So in reality your not going to be able to google an answer for this one mate, trial and error.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

The Sweeney said:


> Don't those long finger nails make curls a pain in the ass?


Not if I'm careful.

Wiping my ar5e can be a bit tricky though.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> Not if I'm careful.
> 
> Wiping my ar5e can be a bit tricky though.


Great for an itchy ring though, I bet?


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