# Ben pakulski - no carbs



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Anyone else read much on him..

Seems very clever and he doesn't like carbs pre workout. Says he can focus and get a better workout without them.

Thoughts from people that have read into him a bit....

Cheers


----------



## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

GetSuperBig said:


> Anyone else read much on him..
> 
> Seems very clever and he doesn't like carbs pre workout. Says he can focus and get a better workout without them.
> 
> ...


every so often an intelligent bodybuilder comes along like mike mentzer, milos sarchev, labrada and I think he is the modern era intelligent bodybuilder. He speaks lots of sense and is willing to try new things out that go against the grain.

really like him and his physique and would consider highly anything he had to say


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

No carbs before workout? Yeah, like I or anyone else is gonna notice any ****ing difference. That's what ****s be off about bodybuilders "oh its better to take your bcaa while training" "oh you'll burn more fat cutting carbs out at 4" **** off just eat your food and train hard.


----------



## musclemate (Sep 14, 2012)

And his calfs are absolutely amazing!


----------



## griffo13 (Dec 7, 2009)

really like him. he has a way of explaining his point. very simple. I find his stuff very effective. his bicep routine is good. his method of carb backloading is very good as well imo


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> No carbs before workout? Yeah, like I or anyone else is gonna notice any ****ing difference. That's what ****s be off about bodybuilders "oh its better to take your bcaa while training" "oh you'll burn more fat cutting carbs out at 4" **** off just eat your food and train hard.


I agree, some people wayyyy over complicate things


----------



## Proteincarb (Oct 12, 2010)

I get his point. But it doesn't matter. Just eat and train. Depends in the person. I look allot better with high carbs instead of high fat


----------



## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

GetSuperBig said:


> Anyone else read much on him..
> 
> Seems very clever and he doesn't like carbs pre workout. Says he can focus and get a better workout without them.
> 
> ...


But that's what works for him.

Just keep it simple. Eat and train. Find what works for you.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Not for me really, I suffer from mild hypoglycemia so to not have any carbs in my system whilst lifting is just asking for a shít workout.


----------



## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

IGotTekkers said:


> No carbs before workout? Yeah, like I or anyone else is gonna notice any ****ing difference. That's what ****s be off about bodybuilders "oh its better to take your bcaa while training" "oh you'll burn more fat cutting carbs out at 4" **** off just eat your food and train hard.


My workouts vary massively based on the previous few hours food intake


----------



## Northern Lass (Aug 10, 2011)

I just focus on eating carbs around my workout- before and after training


----------



## Sharp161 (Jan 31, 2010)

musclemate said:


> And his calfs are absolutely amazing!


Maybe but really small arms?


----------



## ryda (May 31, 2010)

Don't like him he was an idiot in generation iron


----------



## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

As said, he's the modern day intelligent bb.

funny about the carbs thing as I used to feel lethargic through my gym sessions... we cut carbs pre workout and added red meat - voila, no more tiredness. I wouldn't say 'it works for everyone' but if you're capable of reading your body then little things like that do make a difference.


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

He also try's to avoid fats pre workout,

He then introduces carbs around half way through his training, (a friend of mine sent me the PDF for his diet training etc)

He then just has protein pwo then his first meal after training it pro/carbs

As @RXQueenie says it's down to the individual I like to keep carbs high pre pwo and most of the day,

Due to physical job and carbs being protein sparing,

I do feel energy levels are more stable after a pro/fat meal though,

he is a very clever guy though if any of you do

Get a chance to read his PDF,

The main principles of his diet is to

Uterlize the specific hormones that each food group releases in our bodies

At time where they can be most anabolic


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> No carbs before workout? Yeah, like I or anyone else is gonna notice any ****ing difference. That's what ****s be off about bodybuilders "oh its better to take your bcaa while training" "oh you'll burn more fat cutting carbs out at 4" **** off just eat your food and train hard.


Maybe you'd look half decent if you followed a few of these little tips  if you've ever dieted to extremely low bf you'll notice that bcaa does infact make a difference when you train. Subtle but it does through glucogenesis.

Depending on insulin response carbs pre workout would make a big difference too. Can make you feel tired, lethargic etc and lead to poor performance. The way food acts on hormones and the reactions it causes of course can affect brain and nerve signalling.

The way I see it is why wouldn't you want to try make your diet as optimal as possible to improve gym performance. Any advantage you can create will be beneficial. Maybe it depends on goals, if you're happy looking half decent then carry on.


----------



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

I've tried all sorts of combinations of food timings, carbs before and after workout, training fasted and it makes absolutely no difference that I can see. At the moment I prefer to train fasted first thing, not have a pwo meal immediately and then have breakfast about an hour later.

Making gains and staying relatively lean so I'm happy.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> Maybe you'd look half decent if you followed a few of these little tips  if you've ever dieted to extremely low bf you'll notice that bcaa does infact make a difference when you train. Subtle but it does through glucogenesis.
> 
> Depending on insulin response carbs pre workout would make a big difference too. Can make you feel tired, lethargic etc and lead to poor performance. The way food acts on hormones and the reactions it causes of course can affect brain and nerve signalling.
> 
> The way I see it is why wouldn't you want to try make your diet as optimal as possible to improve gym performance. Any advantage you can create will be beneficial. Maybe it depends on goals, if you're happy looking half decent then carry on.


If you didn't have a maximuscle logo in your sig I might believe you more :lol:

I agree to an extent about the food timing around training, for ex if i have a huge meal before training I feel sick after a few sets etc.. but in terms of overall body composition it won't make a noticeable difference. When the leading guys in sports nutrition such as Alan aragon state that meal timing is a load of pish im inclined to believe them over a bodybuilder that probably has a vested interest in product sales.

There endless variations of approaches you can take and absolutely every human is different, so when guy A says "this is the best way to do it" he is talking bollox which was the point I was trying to make. And compared to 95% of the general population I do look half decent mate. Concidering I eat whatever I want when I want and train when I can be ****d im not doing badly at all.


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

IGotTekkers said:


> If you didn't have a maximuscle logo in your sig I might believe you more :lol:
> 
> I agree to an extent about the food timing around training, for ex if i have a huge meal before training I feel sick after a few sets etc.. but in terms of overall body composition it won't make a noticeable difference. When the leading guys in sports nutrition such as Alan aragon state that meal timing is a load of pish im inclined to believe them over a bodybuilder that probably has a vested interest in product sales.
> 
> There endless variations of approaches you can take and absolutely every human is different, so when guy A says "this is the best way to do it" he is talking bollox which was the point I was trying to make. And compared to 95% of the general population I do look half decent mate. Concern I eat whatever I want when I want and train when I can be ****d im not doing badly at all.


Proves you have read much before posting on this topic as Ben always states that the things he says are what HE finds optimal and that you should try all approaches and make decisions that suit you.

Pretty sure Ben has the scientific credentials in nutrition and muscle function to back up his work. He's not your typical meathead 

Maybe abit of research into the man behind the discussion would've helped, although like you say you're happy with just looking better than average joes so no need to bother. I did state it's all goal dependant with regards to your approach so fair play if you're happy.


----------



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

Bad Alan said:


> Maybe you'd look half decent if you followed a few of these little tips


No love lost there eh.


----------



## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

I like bens training tips on full contraction, I use it on everything now...


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

carbs pre workout or not ain't gonna make a difference on body composition, it is just personal preference


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Big ape said:


> carbs pre workout or not ain't gonna make a difference on body composition, it is just personal preference


The OP states it for performance benefits - carbs = serotonin and insulin response. For some this can cause lethargy, drowsiness and lack of mental drive.

Like you say personal preference totally as carbs can benefit pre workout as an energy source. Loads of approaches to take hence all the confusion everyone has lol.

Whatever anyone does I always suggest it's for a sustained period before making a judgement, not based off a one time trial.

I personally also like to eat red meat pre workout - hormone response = dopamine which is great for mental drive/nerve signalling. Something I picked up off @ah24 and just another small tip that COULD potentially mean improved workouts. Minor adjustments yes but every little helps


----------



## musclemate (Sep 14, 2012)

Sharp161 said:


> Maybe but really small arms?


Maybe...


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

musclemate said:


> Maybe...
> 
> View attachment 154908


looks like a smaller version of zyzz?


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

So he probably wouldn't agree with my pre workout can of Coke then?


----------



## musclemate (Sep 14, 2012)

Big ape said:


> looks like a smaller version of zyzz?


Nah... He don't look like some dead stripper to me mate :lol:


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Bad Alan said:


> Proves you have read much before posting on this topic as Ben always states that the things he says are what HE finds optimal and that you should try all approaches and make decisions that suit you.
> 
> Pretty sure Ben has the scientific credentials in nutrition and muscle function to back up his work. He's not your typical meathead
> 
> Maybe abit of research into the man behind the discussion would've helped, although like you say you're happy with just looking better than average joes so no need to bother. I did state it's all goal dependant with regards to your approach so fair play if you're happy.


ben pakulski

honors kinesiology Degree, cscs, ace,

Bad Alan is right here is def not just your average meat head very clever man who's used his own experience and extensive knowledge to build a world class physique,


----------



## Hoddsy (Oct 9, 2008)

I get way too dizzy if I don't have carbs pre workout. Just makes my session awful


----------



## MFM (Jul 25, 2013)

He's one ugly f*cker though.


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks for the responses.

He has a carb meal like 2 to 3 hours pre workout though.

I've got his Pdf from his mi40 programme


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

GetSuperBig said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> He has a carb meal like 2 to 3 hours pre workout though.
> 
> I've got his Pdf from his mi40 programme


Wanna send it?


----------



## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

SILV3RBACK said:


> But that's what works for him.
> 
> Just keep it simple. Eat and train. Find what works for you.


This is it - so many people find something that works well for them, then push it as the magic bullet for everyone.

Carbs are a very individual thing. Some folk have really good insulin sensitivity & function well on high carbs, whilst others function well in ketosis. And because your body is adaptive, the more time you spend in ketosis, the better you do.

Personally I've never been able to get on with low carbs. Back in the 80's, when 60% calories from carbs were the norm, I did just fine & stayed as lean as a whippet.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

So I read in this thread that he has a carb meal 2 hours pre workout and takes carbs halfway through his training? Doesn't sound revolutionary to me tbh...

Or am I misunderstanding peoples posts?


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Major Eyeswater said:


> This is it - so many people find something that works well for them, then push it as the magic bullet for everyone.
> 
> Carbs are a very individual thing. Some folk have really good insulin sensitivity & function well on high carbs, whilst others function well in ketosis. And because your body is adaptive, the more time you spend in ketosis, the better you do.
> 
> Personally I've never been able to get on with low carbs. Back in the 80's, when 60% calories from carbs were the norm, I did just fine & stayed as lean as a whippet.


Totally agree ... something works for one person and push it as though its gospel


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

No one said it was revolutionary mate.

His protein on off days is silly high though


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Mingster said:


> So I read in this thread that he has a carb meal 2 hours pre workout and takes carbs halfway through his training? Doesn't sound revolutionary to me tbh...
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding peoples posts?


It is revolutionary mate......

Only playing you are the right however he is the only ifbb pro who (I know via social media etc)

That seperates carb/pro meals and pro/fat meals all year round,

So has pro/fat Breakie etc,

Kind of a carb timing system, I prefer high carbs through out the day myself feels it keeps my leptin levels higher however i am hungrier when dieting and more of a fat/pro diet I do feel energy levels are more stable


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

bail said:


> It is revolutionary mate......
> 
> Only playing you are the right however he is the only ifbb pro who (I know via social media etc)
> 
> ...


Talking of the Pro/Fat for breakie

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-muscle-prof-what-are-the-ideal-macros-for-my-breakfast.html

Great article from Dr Jacob Wilson


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

musclemate said:


> And his cock is absolutely amazing!


Knew it.....*** :lol:


----------



## musclemate (Sep 14, 2012)

Chelsea said:


> Knew it.....*** :lol:


You limp-wristed fat fvcking trannie! :lol:

I'm not your @Keeks smut replacement buddy.

Go and have another danger wan.k


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

ryda said:


> Don't like him he was an idiot in generation iron


You dont like someone because of a character he played in a docudrama??


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Big ape said:


> Talking of the Pro/Fat for breakie
> 
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-muscle-prof-what-are-the-ideal-macros-for-my-breakfast.html
> 
> Great article from Dr Jacob Wilson


Only problem I see with this article is that after all that he suggests having eggs for breakfast which is fine but then suggests having 6-8oz of whole milk yogurt which as we know contains loads of sugars so wouldn't this contradict what he is saying in terms of consuming fast digesting carbs for breakfast?


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

musclemate said:


> You limp-wristed fat fvcking trannie! :lol:
> 
> I'm not your @Keeks smut replacement buddy.
> 
> Go and have another danger wan.k


 :lol: damn right you're not, @Keeks has far more muscle mass than you :lol:


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Mingster said:


> So I read in this thread that he has a carb meal 2 hours pre workout and takes carbs halfway through his training? Doesn't sound revolutionary to me tbh...
> 
> Or am I misunderstanding peoples posts?


not missing anything mate, avoiding carbs directly before a workout is nothing new, it can help with fat loss as there is no insulin spike but he eats carbs 2hrs before a workout maybe just maybe they would be digested to assist with the workout and he would get no bloat pretty sensible really......

he has some great ideas and his training methods are good, focusing on the activation of the muscle rather than just lifting A to B something not many do.....but this is not revolutionary


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Chelsea said:


> Only problem I see with this article is that after all that he suggests having eggs for breakfast which is fine but then suggests having 6-8oz of whole milk yogurt which as we know contains loads of sugars so wouldn't this contradict what he is saying in terms of consuming fast digesting carbs for breakfast?


I know i didn't get that bit but regardless studies showing it can be benefical


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Big ape said:


> I know i didn't get that bit but regardless studies showing it can be benefical


Definitely, instead of the yogurt I would go with eggs and some nuts which would guarantee just fats and protein.


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Chelsea said:


> Definitely, instead of the yogurt I would go with eggs and some nuts which would guarantee just fats and protein.


Yeah or steak and eggs


----------



## Raw meat 1984 (Sep 17, 2008)

RXQueenie said:


> As said, he's the modern day intelligent bb.
> 
> funny about the carbs thing as I used to feel lethargic through my gym sessions... we cut carbs pre workout and added red meat - voila, no more tiredness. I wouldn't say 'it works for everyone' but if you're capable of reading your body then little things like that do make a difference.


This is the exact same for me..... Depending on if im working from home or on the road IF i have the facility to have 200g Rump steak and 4 whole eggs 1-1.5hrs pre workout I seem to be far less lethargic during and really hungry afterwards! taking food on board always was a chore for me after a big workout, now its easier.


----------



## havering (May 14, 2013)

In my view

Your average lifter - Makes no real difference

A person who competes or is really serious - Them small things are the difference between winning and losing, small margins.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Chelsea said:


> Definitely, instead of the yogurt I would go with eggs and some nuts which would guarantee just fats and protein.


when we are talking of fat loss this is the best option as no matter the type of carbs they will release insulin which will stop fat loss in its tracks, although the studies where presented they where more to do with appetite really and like has been said before where there is one study to show a positive result to justify a point there are several to show a negative, i feel more energised by eating no carbs for the first meal of the day, i wrote something a while ago on this subject i will try to find it.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

havering said:


> In my view
> 
> Your average lifter - Makes no real difference
> 
> A person who competes or is really serious - Them small things are the difference between winning and losing, small margins.


i disagree, this is the argument made by many as they see the smaller things too complicated, yes if you just eat a good base diet then you will train effectively and progress but if you made some logical small tweaks then the progress is better, in my opinion there is no such thing as average lifter just those that do not have enough knowledge.

if you train and especially if you use gear then you should be serious about your progress.


----------



## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> when we are talking of fat loss this is the best option as no matter the type of carbs they will release insulin which will stop fat loss in its tracks, although the studies where presented they where more to do with appetite really and like has been said before where there is one study to show a positive result to justify a point there are several to show a negative, i feel more energised by eating no carbs for the first meal of the day, i wrote something a while ago on this subject i will try to find it.


Agree mate, if you do find it chuck us the link in here, would be good to read :beer:


----------



## havering (May 14, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> i disagree, this is the argument made by many as they see the smaller things too complicated, yes if you just eat a good base diet then you will train effectively and progress but if you made some logical small tweaks then the progress is better, in my opinion there is no such thing as average lifter just those that do not have enough knowledge.
> 
> if you train and especially if you use gear then you should be serious about your progress.


i don't think a casual gym goer cares though as long as they work out, eat a reasonable diet and make some progress, their happy, I would describe that as your average lifter, someone with a bit of muscle but not big but in shape general fitness etc

Whereas your serious guys on gear and training hard, eating precisely stuff like this does make a big difference to them but then they are already looking for small tweaks and extra bits that will give them that 10% extra.


----------



## Dr Gearhead (Aug 15, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> when we are talking of fat loss this is the best option as no matter the type of carbs they will release insulin which will stop fat loss in its tracks, although the studies where presented they where more to do with appetite really and like has been said before where there is one study to show a positive result to justify a point there are several to show a negative, i feel more energised by eating no carbs for the first meal of the day, i wrote something a while ago on this subject i will try to find it.


question for you mate, hopefully it's not a daft one.

I watched a vid on youtube where Layne Norton compares insulin response from carbs and protein and concludes there's not that big of a difference between protein alone and protein combined with carbs in terms of amount of insulin released. If that's true would there not be a sufficient insulin response caused by the presence of protein in a pro/fat meal to halt fat burning (I realise the fat will elicit no insulin response and would have an effect to lower the overall response when combined with protein)

Also, just picking your brains, from your personal experience if you are using a weights session primarily to burn fat how would this hinder muscle building progress or is it assumed that this is a secondary concern where fat loss is the goal. Does one preclude the other or do you believe in the concept of re-comping

thanks


----------



## lachu543 (Dec 2, 2013)

If we are talking on only one meal from 5-7 through the day.... what about competitors ( Pros or Amatours ) who can eat 300-500g carbs, for example 5x 100g rice and and be shredded as ****?


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

lachu543 said:


> If we are talking on only one meal from 5-7 through the day.... what about competitors ( Pros or Amatours ) who can eat 300-500g carbs, for example 5x 100g rice and and be shredded as ****?


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Ive spent the last 7 years training at 7am, on an empty stomach.If you feel the need to ingest anything to fuel your workouts, It might be time to reappraise your motivation.personally, im always far more energised on a low (600) calorie day, than on a "feasting day"

Far too much psuedo science, is attached to lifting.Eating at specific times, constituents of meals etc.Train your heart out then eat when your body tells you to.You wont suffer any hinderence or adverse effects, if you let your evolutionary dicates guide you.


----------



## BruceT (Jul 26, 2013)

GetSuperBig said:


> Anyone else read much on him..
> 
> Seems very clever and he doesn't like carbs pre workout. Says he can focus and get a better workout without them.
> 
> ...


No I haven't read up on him. That said, I'd agree with your follow up sentence. I have tried eating pre or drinking pre and find that even after two hours later my workout is lethargic and my strength seems to be subnormal (for me). My stomach just seems heavy and bloated when working out after consuming food/carb-protein shake.

I find I workout better firstly by training fasted, and secondly by doing it early on in the day. I'll take a strong black coffee or two pre, and then some bcaa intra, only because I'd read it helps with DOMS which I find overall it does aid with the following days aches, especially after heavy squats.

I consider myself somewhere between novice and beginner in terms of training and diet.

May have to try Bad Alan's approach about pre with red meat.


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Chelsea said:


> Only problem I see with this article is that after all that he suggests having eggs for breakfast which is fine but then suggests having 6-8oz of whole milk yogurt which as we know contains loads of sugars so wouldn't this contradict what he is saying in terms of consuming fast digesting carbs for breakfast?


Tbh mate I've tried the whole steak and eggs for breakie and whey and nuts, I prefer a carb pro based breakie I know a lot will disagree and I understand the science and do believe energy levels more stable with fat/pro breakie,

But I personally prefer carb/pro breakie as I feel it curbs cortisol, increases my appetite, sets my metabolism up for the day, and I just feel fuller so I go for a pro/carb meal around hour after waking up,


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Many individual reasons why different approaches work for different people - the only certainty is that there is no absolute best approach for everyone, you simply have to experiment and see what works for you, and also accept that as various factors in your health, age, physique and lifestyle change what works best at one point might not continue work best at other points.

In respect of Ben Pakulski I think he's one of the best top level bodybuilders to follow - most of the top guys don't actually offer too much that is useful, but he often seems to. I agree with pscarb that what Pakulski often talks about isn't actually unique or even new, but I do think he has a good ability to look through all the info out there and spot the bits that are most likely to be useful. You can never prescribe a set of approaches that will be amazing for everyone, but you can provide a load of tips that are likely to benefit more people than not, and that's what paku does I think.


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Great responses guys!

What i do like is most of you even if you dont feel pro/fat is better before a workout than with carbs all seem to agree Ben is one of the best pros in terms of real world knowledge and application.

If you guys want the PDF just leave your email and ill forward most of it on....there are videos showing the exercises and him doing the workouts etc but they will be too big to send.

However, if you go on www.kickassunblock.com and search for Ben Pakulski Mi40.....you will be able to download it via a torrent.

This is his FIRST programme, since there has been Mi40X...which is a LOT more in depth however i wont pay the £120 to buy it...then there is his Hypertrophy Max which is realeased on the 22nd which is all about a 12month programme...12months of periodisation but he has laid it all out for you etc...no idea on price yet.

What i do notice is that on NON training days his PROTEIN is VERY VERY high...

he likes 50% of total calories to be protein on OFF days...whilst 30% on Training days..that means for me....who is aiming for 4000cals on a bulk...thats 500g of protein on off days!


----------



## geordie_paul (Aug 12, 2007)

bail said:


> Tbh mate I've tried the whole steak and eggs for breakie and whey and nuts, I prefer a carb pro based breakie I know a lot will disagree and I understand the science and do believe energy levels more stable with fat/pro breakie,
> 
> But I personally prefer carb/pro breakie as I feel it curbs cortisol, increases my appetite, sets my metabolism up for the day, and I just feel fuller so I go for a pro/carb meal around hour after waking up,


im with you on this one. have tried all the pro/fat breakfasts but cant get away with no carbs. i can get away with small serving of carbs with protein and fats but not just the meat and nuts thats recommended.

i know all the diets now with carbtiming are whats recommended but i still prefer to split my carbs through meals of the day with maybe more for breakfast and pwo


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

lachu543 said:


> If we are talking on only one meal from 5-7 through the day.... what about competitors ( Pros or Amatours ) who can eat 300-500g carbs, for example 5x 100g rice and and be shredded as ****?


yes but then you have to take into consideration body type, genetics, fat burners. cardio, intensity of training....you cannot just look at the fact some eat 4-500g of carbs and get shredded, and to be fair not many do.

yes there are some that do but in general for the majority do not.

many will say "yea but it is only one meal" but what if that person eats 5 meals a day then that is 1/5th of his calories for that day, i see so many posts on this and other forums about average guys being so precise on there gear use but then casually make comments like "yes but i am not taking it serous" or "it is only one meal" but would panic to fukc if they missed one jab or did not take there orals.......

more 'Average' lifters would progress so much more if they looked at there nutrition as much as they do there drug use.


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> yes but then you have to take into consideration body type, genetics, fat burners. cardio, intensity of training....you cannot just look at the fact some eat 4-500g of carbs and get shredded, and to be fair not many do.
> 
> yes there are some that do but in general for the majority do not.
> 
> ...


Last paragraph for sure Paul - I haven't used much aas all year but can't remember ever missing a meal and it's definately paid off.

Every little helps with nutrition from a recovery, growth and performance standpoint I think so I like to pay attention to what most consider "the small details" that they think should be reserved for the pros to worry about.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Bad Alan said:


> Last paragraph for sure Paul - I haven't used much aas all year but can't remember ever missing a meal and it's definately paid off.
> 
> Every little helps with nutrition from a recovery, growth and performance standpoint I think so I like to pay attention to what most consider "the small details" that they think should be reserved for the pros to worry about.


exactly, my current cycle is 800mg per week and i am growing, i can bet that is half the dose of most who preach they can be sloppy with there nutrition yet look crap with a top off.......


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Im trying to devise a layout based on his template but my macros say i need 400g carbs on a training day to start...no carbs pre as i train after meal 1...then ill have 70g intra workout.

Straight after he advises WHEY ISOLATE only...then a meal after with pro+carbs...even if i have 100g carbs in this...i still need 230g which seems alot to cram in as last meal before bed is pro/fat

If people read the pdf they might chime in..


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Chelsea said:


> Only problem I see with this article is that after all that he suggests having eggs for breakfast which is fine but then suggests having 6-8oz of whole milk yogurt which as we know contains loads of sugars so wouldn't this contradict what he is saying in terms of consuming fast digesting carbs for breakfast?


I guess if the yoghurt only contains its natural sugars then it may still be low GI, like milk:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/417451-is-milk-really-low-glycemic/

(Only realised this after Googling, my first reaction was similar to yours.)


----------



## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

My workouts are much much better having carbs pre workout. Feel like I have much more energy and more focused.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> more 'Average' lifters would progress so much more if they looked at there nutrition as much as they do there drug use.


Exactly. The one that gets me the most is people cutting and taking clen, t3 and dnp and yet eating shyte every night and spending the weekend p1ssed... and when they get less than decent results rather than fix diet they up the dose!



Bad Alan said:


> Last paragraph for sure Paul - I haven't used much aas all year but can't remember ever missing a meal and it's definately paid off.
> 
> Every little helps with nutrition from a recovery, growth and performance standpoint I think so I like to pay attention to what most consider "the small details" that they think should be reserved for the pros to worry about.


Agreed. I often think the old phrase "look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves" refers to a broad principal that applies to nutrition and training too... the details add up, and aren't even that fiddly really when up and running - it just takes a bit of time and effort initially to figure out how to make them work for the individual.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

dtlv said:


> Exactly. The one that gets me the most is people cutting and taking clen, t3 and dnp and yet eating shyte every night and spending the weekend p1ssed... and when they get less than decent results rather than fix diet they up the dose!
> 
> .


Yea but that's flexible dieting and we all know that works even when you look like **** at least you can say you use IIFYM lol


----------



## Awt (Feb 23, 2014)

the diet he sets is no carbs at breakfast,carb/pro meal then pro/carbs 2-3 hours before then protein veg 30-45 min before and then carbs intra ive been doing this and much prefer it better pumps etc


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> Yea but that's flexible dieting and we all know that works even when you look like **** at least you can say you use IIFYM lol


Yep, nothing like a nice abbreviation to make things sound clever, lol.

Speaking of IIFYM I was recently listening to a podcast with Alan Aragon where he was talking about how IIFYM originated - apparently it was first used as an abbreviation by one of the mods on bodybuilding.com where people were posting endless threads like 'can I swap potato for yams?', 'can I swap basmati rice for long grain rice?', 'can I swap chicken for turkey?' etc etc and the guy just got totally fed up with it all and just started saying "if it's nutritionally similar and "IIFYM" then yes".... was NEVER intended to be either a diet plan nor an excuse to eat junk, yet people made it into a nutritional philosophy for exactly that purpose.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dtlv said:


> Yep, nothing like a nice abbreviation to make things sound clever, lol.
> 
> Speaking of IIFYM I was recently listening to a podcast with Alan Aragon where he was talking about how IIFYM originated - apparently it was first used as an abbreviation by one of the mods on bodybuilding.com where people were posting endless threads like 'can I swap potato for yams?', 'can I swap basmati rice for long grain rice?', 'can I swap chicken for turkey?' etc etc and the guy just got totally fed up with it all and just started saying "if it's nutritionally similar and "IIFYM" then yes".... was NEVER intended to be either a diet plan nor an excuse to eat junk, yet people made it into a nutritional philosophy for exactly that purpose.


It was actually one of the posters called Erikstevens on the nutritional misc section.

He was even trying to invent or label something. It was born out of frustration and grew from comedy.

Now everything thinks its a prescribed diet


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> It was actually one of the posters called Erikstevens on the nutritional misc section.
> 
> He was even trying to invent or label something. It was born out of frustration and grew from comedy.
> 
> Now everything thinks its a prescribed diet


Yeah that's the name, Erik Stevens. He must be pulling his hair out, lol.... but then having been on forums a good few years I can safely say he's not the only one.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dtlv said:


> Yeah that's the name, Erik Stevens. He must be pulling his hair out, lol.... but then having been on forums a good few years I can safely say he's not the only one.


I was actually on the forums the time it happened.

I told Erik he should try and release a book on it, but he couldn't ****d to deal with all the people and the dumb **** that went with it.

However a certain scrawny bespecticalled blonde Texan kid did.........


----------



## shaunmac (Aug 13, 2010)

Absolutely love watching his videos.

Favourite current bodybuilder


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

*this is from his PDF*

*
*

*
Based on a MORNING WORKOUT*

*On WAKING* - 1 litre water, greens powder, probiotics, whole fresh lemon and lemon juice in the water, 10g bcaa, 10g glutamine, 1g vit c

*Meal 1* Protein + Veggies (+ fats optional)

*15mins Pre workout* - 15g BCAA, 4g Beta Alanine, 10g Arginine, 1g vit C

*DURING Workou*t -- Muscle Martini (30mins Into Training) = "Your Anabolic Number "*G*" " = 70g Carbs + 20g Pepto Pro, 10g Glutamin, 5g Leucine

*POST Workout* (Immediately after) 70g Whey Protein Isolate (see 'G' for amount) + 1g vit C, 400mg Magnesium

*Meal 2* Protein + Carbs

*Meal *3 Protein + Carbs + Veggies

*Meal 4* Shake ***(NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS MEANT TO BE..just PROTEIN?)

*Meal 5* Protein + Carbs + Veggies

*Meal 6 *Protein + Fats + Veggies

*Before Bed* Protein Shake + Fats

My Macros for training days are 300/500/80 - starting.

A Lot of meals. i'll cut out one deffo!!


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

GetSuperBig said:


> My Macros for training days are 300/500/80


Is that Protein/Carbs/Fats?


----------



## night06 (May 1, 2014)

everyone who thinks u have more energy when u eat carbs as pre workout is an absolute fool.

u will feel nothing expect the placebo, u benefit from carbs when u ate them the day before or atleast couple of hours before your workout.

and btw its in general really stupid to eat before ur workouts, your body will take alot of blood for digestion, so that means u will actually have less energy and a worse pump while working out.

but ye do what ever u want, if u need to eat before your workout for your placebo energy go ahead, do what ever works for your


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

night06 said:


> everyone who thinks u have more energy when u eat carbs as pre workout is an absolute fool.
> 
> u will feel nothing expect the placebo, u benefit from carbs when u ate them the day before or atleast couple of hours before your workout.
> 
> ...


It all depends how quickly the carbs are absorbed. Having glucose just before you start warming up will provide elevated blood glucose levels during your workout and therefore more energy. This is not a placebo. I agree that having for example a big bowl of oats immediately before a workout probably does nothing beneficial, and may actually hinder a workout though.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ultrasonic said:


> It all depends how quickly the carbs are absorbed. Having glucose just before you start warming up will provide elevated blood glucose levels during your workout and therefore more energy. This is not a placebo. I agree that having for example a big bowl of oats immediately before a workout probably does nothing beneficial, and may actually hinder a workout though.


but if you have something like glucose then you will crash in your workout as the spike this causes will at some point in your workout fall.....

eating a decent carb source 1-2hrs before your workout with Pro and fats is effective but i agree with @night06 energy for a workout mainly comes from your 24hr nutritional approach not something you have eaten just before a workout, i always laugh at guys i see eating flapjacks or bananas before a workout for energy 

what people need to understand is that you do not eat something and instantly it turns into energy and bobs your uncle you are set.......consume your calories in a fashion that is sustainable and that gives you the best energy output for your workout.

i eat pretty much all of my carbs intra and post workout (not carb backloading as intended) when i want to add muscle i increase my carbs from within the PERI window outwards, so if i find i cannot eat any more calories in the PERI window i will add carbs etc to say meal 3 ( i train after meal 4 normally) then meal 2 and then 1.......and i do the reverse when wanting to cut back a little, this works for me very well.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Pscarb said:


> but if you have something like glucose then you will crash in your workout as the spike this causes will at some point in your workout fall.....


True of course. How signficant that will be will depend on how long the workout is, and could presumably be mitigated by consuming more quickly absorbed carbs during the workout if required. FWIW I don't routinely have carbs immediately before a workout, but probably would do if I was training first thing in the morning as as some posters do, at which point I'd have thought going down the glucose (or Vitargo etc.) route would probably be sensible?

What carbs do you take intra-workout out of interest?


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Would be nice to have comments on the diet layout I posted and how I'm meant to fit 400g carbs in there


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Just take something 60-90 mins pre that provides aminos and carbs - that will ensure both that glycogen levels are adequate, and that insulin is elevated from the moment you start training; something much more beneficial than spiking insulin pwo.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ultrasonic said:


> True of course. How signficant that will be will depend on how long the workout is, and could presumably be mitigated by consuming more quickly absorbed carbs during the workout if required. FWIW I don't routinely have carbs immediately before a workout, but probably would do if I was training first thing in the morning as as some posters do, at which point I'd have thought going down the glucose (or Vitargo etc.) route would probably be sensible?
> 
> What carbs do you take intra-workout out of interest?


I use branch dextrin, I find it great and I can consume a large amount without bloat


----------



## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

night06 said:


> everyone who thinks u have more energy when u eat carbs as pre workout is an absolute fool.
> 
> u will feel nothing expect the placebo, u benefit from carbs when u ate them the day before or atleast couple of hours before your workout.
> 
> ...


I disagree, having a solid pro meal with carbs an hour before my workout defo works better than pro and fats an hour before.

This is of course what works for me. But I guess I'm a " fool " for doing this eh?


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

*7.30am *- 1 litre water, greens powder, probiotics, whole fresh lemon and lemon juice in the water, 10g bcaa, 10g glutamine, 1g vit c

*8am* - 40g Whey, 15g Coconut Oil, 5g Fish Oil. 10g Almonds

*Train 9.30 - 10.30* (Muscle Martini)= 80g Carbs, 20g PeptoPro, 10g Glutamine, 5g V Leucine

*PWO* - 70g Whey Isolate, 5g Leucine, 400mg Magnesium, 1g Vit C

*12pm* - 200g Chicken Breast, 100g White Rice, 1 Banana, 5g Fish Oil. (60/100)

*2pm* - 200g Chicken Breast 400g Sweet Potato, Veg (60/90)

*4.30* -40g Whey Blend, 90g Oats, 1 apple, greens, (60/80)

*7pm* - 200g X Lean Steak Mince, 70g Brown Rice.

*10pm* - 5 Whole Eggs, 10g Walnuts.

That's what i put together for roughly the macros im starting on! Training days anyway.

Ben does say he likes to get his carbs in the 4 hours after the workout which means ideally id like to have them in by the 4.30 meal...but i cant see how i can get 400g of carbs in this period...?


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

GetSuperBig said:


> *7.30am *- 1 litre water, greens powder, probiotics, whole fresh lemon and lemon juice in the water, 10g bcaa, 10g glutamine, 1g vit c
> 
> *8am* - 40g Whey, 15g Coconut Oil, 5g Fish Oil. 10g Almonds
> 
> ...


With your pwo shake, their are no carbs would this give you enough of a gap to take ghrp 6 or something to spike you appetite that way you could double your carbs in your 4:30 meal?


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Maybe mate.

Pwo he says just use whey.

I was actually gonna start this on Monday with a cycle as I've been off a while.

Was gonna just use 4 iu hgh pre workout which will help as no carbs then use slin with my Pwo meal...just don't know if using slin 1hr after I train will be beneficial....

I'm already having 100g carbs in my Pwo meal. Haha


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

GetSuperBig said:


> Maybe mate.
> 
> Pwo he says just use whey.
> 
> ...


I think 1 hour pwo is fine it's still in the anabolic window plus will help you get all those carbs down, and the gh pre workout with no carbs should give you a good pump whilst training,

How much slin you thinking of using??


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Only like 10iu novorapid mate.

Interested why he doesn't have carbs with his Pwo shake


----------



## dalboy (Sep 16, 2009)

Ive uploaded the PDFs here if anyones interested. Minus the videos.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/i6p98m


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Not quite sure why he just has whey isolate PWO...ill have to read through the PDF a bit more!


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

@bail

If I'm aiming for 400g carbs.

I can up my intra workout too 100g from Vitargo....

Then my Pwo meal have 150g carbs. Say 150g white rice. Large banana. Tablespoon honey.

Then have another 75g carbs in my next 2 meals. Boom done.

With the white rice meal I can shoot 10iu slin as a starting point and ill probably work up to 15iu


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

GetSuperBig said:


> @bail
> 
> If I'm aiming for 400g carbs.
> 
> ...


Yeah sounds good 150gram rice would be a struggle to eat though lol,

But after slin I think you could do it

Out of interest how come you use virtargo over gylcofuse etc


----------



## PurpleOnes (Oct 17, 2013)

SILV3RBACK said:


> But that's what works for him.
> 
> Just keep it simple. Eat and train. Find what works for you.


Who knows you cannot always trust people.

I mean he can say that he does not use carbs pre workout to be sort of ''different'' than other bodybuilders but in reality who know what he really does.

I think he is a really good bodybuilder though and legs are huge.


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

bail said:


> Yeah sounds good 150gram rice would be a struggle to eat though lol,
> 
> But after slin I think you could do it
> 
> Out of interest how come you use virtargo over gylcofuse etc


Vitargo is cheaper by a long way to me mate. Only reason tbh. 150g rice ain't that much. Lol


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Not getting opened



dalboy said:


> Ive uploaded the PDFs here if anyones interested. Minus the videos.
> 
> https://www.sendspace.com/file/i6p98m


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

This is his latest programme released today


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

http://HypertrophyMAX.com

That link is like 60 a month

You get dvd and hard copy for it to your door Plus private access to forum.

Go on it and watch video and see if you think it's worth it...Seems it as your getting so much


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

Bump


----------



## braxbro (Aug 6, 2013)

I know exactly where he is coming from. If I have carbs within 2 hours of my workout its utter crap for me, I don't do it anymore mentally not that focused and I feel more lethargic than anything. Usually now ill have oats and whey around 3.30pm and train at about 6.30 with some coffee and coconut oil as my pre-workout and its working great.


----------



## pooledaniel (May 8, 2013)

GetSuperBig said:


> http://HypertrophyMAX.com
> 
> That link is like 60 a month
> 
> ...


Can vouch for this. Not cheap, but it is pretty solid. Lots of good info and structured plans delivered each month. Well worth it if you want some motivation / clear direction!


----------



## GetSuperBig (Mar 5, 2014)

I think 60 a month is cheap mate.

The first month you can name your price but it closes in a few days


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Dr Gearhead said:


> question for you mate, hopefully it's not a daft one.
> 
> I watched a vid on youtube where Layne Norton compares insulin response from carbs and protein and concludes there's not that big of a difference between protein alone and protein combined with carbs in terms of amount of insulin released. If that's true would there not be a sufficient insulin response caused by the presence of protein in a pro/fat meal to halt fat burning (I realise the fat will elicit no insulin response and would have an effect to lower the overall response when combined with protein).


Just browsing back through this thread, and actually that is a good question. I've certainly seen studies showing protein causes insulin spikes (e.g. this one); anyone have any thoughts/knowledge on this?


----------



## BodyEnergy (Apr 20, 2013)

He has absolutely right and his mindset reflects mine.

Carbs prewo could given pumps ( maybe ) but no energy and focused,... try to have a good diet and prewo without carbo and the different will be substantial.

I agree with him regard intra workout supplementation and how to take advantage from the anabolik window post wo.

the biggest successes are always putting in a strategic manner carbs and not be full of it to be bloated


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

BodyEnergy said:


> He has absolutely right and his mindset reflects mine.
> 
> Carbs prewo could given pumps ( maybe ) but no energy and focused,... try to have a good diet and prewo without carbo and the different will be substantial.
> 
> ...


Disagree. I perform far better with carbs in every meal. My body hates having no carbs. I turn into a zombie.

And the whole anabolic window thing is crap. With the drugs these guys and most of us use, we are always in an anabolic window.


----------



## BodyEnergy (Apr 20, 2013)

Ok then is the reason cuz we are all different and yet the same..

Drugs or not if I push carbs before WO i feel like in a dream.... and I would rather to go straight into the bed.


----------



## DORIAN (Feb 8, 2011)

ryda said:


> Don't like him he was an idiot in generation iron


He did come a across a bit like that. But not as much as

branch warren complete toss pot


----------



## ryda (May 31, 2010)

DORIAN said:


> He did come a across a bit like that. But not as much as
> 
> branch warren complete toss pot


Hahaa that's just branch in nearly every video I see of him, at least he looks good unlike pakulski


----------

