# Enough to bulk????



## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

I have listed below everything I have or will be eating today and it's still only coming to 3165 calories consumed!! How can I possibly get that up around 4000 which is roughly what I reckon I need to bulk? I just can't eat any more!! The only thing not on that list that I will be having is 2 scoops of nutrisport 90+ before bed but that won't even cover what I'm going to burn in the gym!! Any help greatly appreciated guys.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Up your fats. Nuts, olive oil, butter, full fat milk, peanut butter, cheese etc. Remember there are 9 calories per gram of fat so it's quite easy to add calories through fats.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

2004mark said:


> Up your fats. Nuts, olive oil, butter, full fat milk, peanut butter, cheese etc. Remember there are 9 calories per gram of fat so it's quite easy to add calories through fats.


How far do I go with the fats though? I thought 100g was about right?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Well an extra 50g would give you just under an extra 500 calories. Add another 2 scoops of whey and you are up to just under your target.

You're at a point where it looks as though you are getting plenty of carbs, enough protein (although you could up that slightly) and adequate fats. So if it's a choice of upping fats or carbs... I would personally pick fats. Fats don't necessarily make you fat, excess calories will whether they be carbs or fats.

My diet is currently based on a 40:40:20 split between protein, carbs and fats (although I'm not strict), but I will soon be lowing the carbs and upping the fats a bit after reading some interesting posts on here by Prodiver, maybe he will comment. He'll be able to give you more facts than I can.

If you want to keep the fats lowish then add carbs in the form of oats to your shake between your 2 lunches. EDIT: Or double the oats in your morning shake to 100g.


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## Zzz102 (Apr 6, 2010)

what is that app ?


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

Zzz102 said:


> what is that app ?


My net diary pro


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

2004mark said:


> Well an extra 50g would give you just under an extra 500 calories. Add another 2 scoops of whey and you are up to just under your target.
> 
> You're at a point where it looks as though you are getting plenty of carbs, enough protein (although you could up that slightly) and adequate fats. So if it's a choice of upping fats or carbs... I would personally pick fats. Fats don't necessarily make you fat, excess calories will weather they be carbs or fats.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks a lot mark sounds like good advice. Cheers


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## 1Tonne (Jun 6, 2010)

Sorry to everyone in this thread but WTF?? How can you 'reckon' you need 4k cals?

How can you advise more fats when there is no indication of current weight, current bf, required cals??

Personally mate , if you aren't a decent size, I see you getting fat. Unless of course your 210lbs of lean mass. And if you were, I'd doubt very much you'd be looking for diet advise.

Just my opinion obviously.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

1Tonne said:


> Sorry to everyone in this thread but WTF?? How can you 'reckon' you need 4k cals?
> 
> How can you advise more fats when there is no indication of current weight, current bf, required cals??
> 
> ...


5'11 and 190lbs. My weight maintenance has been calculated at approx 3200 cals. I have no idea what my bf% is. Maybe you can tell me from my photo?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

1Tonne said:


> Sorry to everyone in this thread but WTF?? How can you 'reckon' you need 4k cals?
> 
> How can you advise more fats when there is no indication of current weight, current bf, required cals??
> 
> ...


Fair point but, I was just answering his question which was "How can I possibly get that up around 4000 which is roughly what I reckon I need to bulk?"

I also saw his pic yesterday so knew he had some beef on him (although didn't know his exact weight)... so 4000 cal would be perfectly believable.


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## 1Tonne (Jun 6, 2010)

Not reLly a pop at you mark mate, you just answered the question asked.

To the op, maintenance of 3200 is high mate. You calculating that from 190lbs? Or lean body mass?

My advice would be start around the 2800-3000 mark. Would prob see you shifting some of that excess fat whilst building some muscle. I got a feeling you've calced 4k on your weight alone which is all fine and well, but you will see just as much if not more fat gain than muscle.

Just my opinion tho bud, just think your shooting too high.

Again, said it in a diff post earlier, pscarb is gaining on 3200 cals I believe and is carrying much more muscle than most of us. I would hazard you LBM around 170-175lbs. Just a guess tho, impossible to tell from pics as fat hides everywhere.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

1Tonne said:


> Not reLly a pop at you mark mate, you just answered the question asked.
> 
> To the op, maintenance of 3200 is high mate. You calculating that from 190lbs? Or lean body mass?
> 
> ...


The 3200 was calculated for me when I joined the gym. My original goal was losing weight as I'd gained quite a bit after quitting the ****. I started at the same weight I am now but I have lost quite a lot off my gut so I'm hoping some of what I put back on has been muscle. Have only been on the weights since beginning of dec so not sure what's happening at the moment. If you reckon I would still be able to gain at around 3200 I would be much more comfortable with that to be honest so maybe that's what I need to do. I must admit I feel a bit bloated most of the time so losing 600-800 cals from what I've been doing sounds like heaven!!!


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

1Tonne said:


> Not reLly a pop at you mark mate, you just answered the question asked.
> 
> To the op, maintenance of 3200 is high mate. You calculating that from 190lbs? Or lean body mass?
> 
> ...


Like I said, valid points and seeing his weight I'm in total agreeance with you. I'm around the 3200-3500 mark but I'm a hard-gainer so doubt he'll need 4k as we are probably in the same lbm bracket (I'm 180 lbs).


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2011)

2004mark said:


> So if it's a choice of upping fats or carbs... I would personally pick fats. Fats don't necessarily make you fat, excess calories will whether they be carbs or fats.


Why not increase protein? Id rather eat more of that than anything else.

After reading the rest of the thread though, i agree with 1Tonne.

Depending on your job ofcourse, 4000cals is alot of food. id be very surprised if you need that much to grow.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

mikex101 said:


> Why not increase protein? Id rather eat more of that than anything else.
> 
> After reading the rest of the thread though, i agree with 1Tonne.
> 
> Depending on your job ofcourse, 4000cals is alot of food. id be very surprised if you need that much to grow.


Mike thats music to my ears it's killing me trying to eat that much!! I'm a welder so on my feet and moving around quite a bit but no heavy work it's all cranes. Like I said before I do feel like maybe my stomach is getting a little bigger so I'll try dropping to 3200 for couple of weeks and see how I go from there. Thanks mate


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

mikex101 said:


> Why not increase protein? Id rather eat more of that than anything else.
> 
> After reading the rest of the thread though, i agree with 1Tonne.
> 
> Depending on your job ofcourse, 4000cals is alot of food. id be very surprised if you need that much to grow.


Looks like we are all in pretty much agreement on the cals, including the OP. Just in my defense though, the reason why I said that it's a choice of fats or carbs to increase calorie intake is that your protein intake is generally a given (between 1.5-2g per lbs of lbm when bulking... and I did actually suggest another scoop or two of whey to take it to the top of the range) so the remainder of his requirement could in theory be made up from any ratio of fats or carbs.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks all. Maybe I might start losing a bit off my gut now then!!!


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

mikex101 said:


> Why not increase protein? Id rather eat more of that than anything else.


Because it's pointless past a certain point and expensive.

Few silly posts in this thread but some good advice too. OP you're holding quite a lot of fat. On that basis, how you thought "bulking" and especially "bulking" on 4000cals is beyond me. Your focus should be on gaining lean mass and leaning out; bulking implies adding all-out body weight.

TBF you've obviously done at least some basic research as there's good stuff in your diet, but it's not optimal for someone with your current physique. It sounds like you have a pu55y appetite ( :lol: ) which is good because I doubt you'll need to eat loads to gain. I'd rather recommend intermittent fasting, but if you struggle to eat now you'd probably more so doing that.

I'd say focus on eating high protein, moderate-high fat and targeted carbs. Something like:

meal 1: eggs, cheese

Meals 2 and 4: whey and peanut butter

Meal 3: dark chicken meat, salad, olive oil

PWO: whey and kids' cereal

PPWO: steak and potatoes

Pre-bed: casein powder/ cottage cheese and peanut butter

Something like that. You want to recomp more than you do bulk. The reason you're carrying fat right now is because you've been spiking your insulin at inappropriate times. Spike your insulin around workouts to start with; just have protein and fat the rest of the time. I'd personally recommend to count calories so you've got a baseline, but DON'T look at the scale! If you're just gaining lean mass you'll see it in the mirror but it takes time if you want to stay lean while doing it.

That's just my 2c, but I don't think anyone with your genetics needs to be eating bread, potatoes or bananas during the day. Your body's not gonna burn them so it's going to store it as fat. People say calories in vs out is all that matters but there's loads of evidence to prove this isn't the case. Carbs PWO = insulin shuttles nutrients to muscles, not to adipose!


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

AlasTTTair said:


> Because it's pointless past a certain point and expensive.
> 
> Few silly posts in this thread but some good advice too. OP you're holding quite a lot of fat. On that basis, how you thought "bulking" and especially "bulking" on 4000cals is beyond me. Your focus should be on gaining lean mass and leaning out; bulking implies adding all-out body weight.
> 
> ...


Thanks Alastair. You obviously know your stuff but I'm confused a little now. Are you saying I should eat virtually no carbs at all until pre and post workout? How many calories should I be targeting to achieve losing the fat and still making slow gains?


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Hampy71 said:


> Thanks Alastair. You obviously know your stuff but I'm confused a little now. Are you saying I should eat virtually no carbs at all until pre and post workout? How many calories should I be targeting to achieve losing the fat and still making slow gains?


How could I possible know that? No one knows that! It varies day to day depending on a number of factors. The issue is complicated further by research which suggests that calories aren't the most important factor in losing body fat; rather the types of food are. There's so many different ways people will tell you to do thing mate; most of them based on nothing. Meal frequency isn't important really - if you sort your pre and PWO you can grow off two meals a day if you get the nutrients right. You're clearly prone to storing body fat fairly easily. If we know that you cannot store body fat without eating carbohydrates (as carbs spike insulin and cause the body to store excess carbs as fat if glycogen stores are full), then does it seem like a good idea to spike insulin 6-7 times a day when you're doing fcuk all for most of it?

To make it simple, start with 6 meals a day as you've probably got it in your head that that's the right thing to do. Start by just having PWO carbs and monitor your calories; say 2500-3000. If you see good progress after a few weeks-months you can start adding slow digesting carbs to brekkie and pwo. I doubt you'll follow my advice but there it is anyway.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

AlasTTTair said:


> How could I possible know that? No one knows that! It varies day to day depending on a number of factors. The issue is complicated further by research which suggests that calories aren't the most important factor in losing body fat; rather the types of food are. There's so many different ways people will tell you to do thing mate; most of them based on nothing. Meal frequency isn't important really - if you sort your pre and PWO you can grow off two meals a day if you get the nutrients right. You're clearly prone to storing body fat fairly easily. If we know that you cannot store body fat without eating carbohydrates (as carbs spike insulin and cause the body to store excess carbs as fat if glycogen stores are full), then does it seem like a good idea to spike insulin 6-7 times a day when you're doing fcuk all for most of it?
> 
> To make it simple, start with 6 meals a day as you've probably got it in your head that that's the right thing to do. Start by just having PWO carbs and monitor your calories; say 2500-3000. If you see good progress after a few weeks-months you can start adding slow digesting carbs to brekkie and pwo. I doubt you'll follow my advice but there it is anyway.


Why would I not follow your advice? It certainly makes sense now you explained it. My problem has obviously been that I thought needed to eat much more than I really do to see growth. Almost everything I read regarding growth is screaming to eat, eat, eat and when you can't eat any more, ear some more!!!


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

Quote:-If we know that you cannot store body fat without eating carbohydrates (as carbs spike insulin and cause the body to store excess carbs as fat if glycogen stores are full), then does it seem like a good idea to spike insulin 6-7 times a day when you're doing fcuk all for most of it?

Is working ten hours a day considered doing fvck all??


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## Big Dawg (Feb 24, 2008)

Hampy71 said:


> Why would I not follow your advice? It certainly makes sense now you explained it. My problem has obviously been that I thought needed to eat much more than I really do to see growth. Almost everything I read regarding growth is screaming to eat, eat, eat and when you can't eat any more, ear some more!!!


Thing is, those approaches are aimed at people who have a hard time gaining weight (ectos) and often that is what is required for them to progress. You're not an ecto tho, and neither am I. It took me a while to learn that packing in cals and carbs gets you fat, and it wasn't a fun learning experience lol!

Re working 10 hours a day, man that sucks! If ur doing manual labour then u might need more carbss than a desk worker, but u may also find u run better off fats. Start with pwo carbs, then if u feel u need more to function then add them gradually to other meals til u have enough to function n build muscle but not put on fat.

Sent from iphone, sorry bout txt speak.


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## Hampy71 (Jan 18, 2011)

AlasTTTair said:


> Thing is, those approaches are aimed at people who have a hard time gaining weight (ectos) and often that is what is required for them to progress. You're not an ecto tho, and neither am I. It took me a while to learn that packing in cals and carbs gets you fat, and it wasn't a fun learning experience lol!
> 
> Re working 10 hours a day, man that sucks! If ur doing manual labour then u might need more carbss than a desk worker, but u may also find u run better off fats. Start with pwo carbs, then if u feel u need more to function then add them gradually to other meals til u have enough to function n build muscle but not put on fat.
> 
> Sent from iphone, sorry bout txt speak.


Ok mate that sounds pretty good to me, I'll give it a go. Thanks


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