# Progesterone Gyno Reversal?



## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi guys about 8 months ago I did a cycle. Tren, sust and dbol from then on I had saggy nipples there like cones and point out at the end. There not really bad but I notice them because I see them everyday. I did pct for 2 weeks only nolvadex. As I aam young I didn't do any research but now I know what I'm doing and I hate myself for being so stupid haha. I was thinking about Letro just to make sure there are no lumps and dostinex. Would really want some advice to get rid of these cone tits. If there is anything better to get rid of them. Please advice!


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

i got a very puffy my left nipple from dbol once and it would not go away, so I ran 20mg nolva a day for a long long time, a lot longer than i should have and it seemed to get rid of it.


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Cheers for the reply mate, at the no an ex bodybuilder I know told me to run Arimidex & nolva & that worked for him. But research says it won't work. Just trying anything I'm desperate for them to go!


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Aestheticz said:


> Cheers for the reply mate, at the no an ex bodybuilder I know told me to run Arimidex & nolva & that worked for him. But research says it won't work. Just trying anything I'm desperate for them to go!


looks like letro is the only way then mate. I just ran nolva for friggin ages.


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

If nolva worked for you it might for me pal. But it's not a lump the skins just sagging. It's not bad but I notice it all the time


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

I think it was PScarb or Weeman that mentioned Letro sorts their prog gyno out every time.

Ausbuilt posted on this recently, but progesterone doesn't cause gyno, it only causes lactation once gyno has formed. It's the high estrogen you need to address.


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Alright mate thanks. Letro for deffo then. Maybe some destinox?


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## Moonbeam (Jul 20, 2011)

Aestheticz said:


> If nolva worked for you it might for me pal. But it's not a lump the skins just sagging. It's not bad but I notice it all the time


Sounds more like bf to me mate


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

No pal my bf is under 10 & never had it before the cycle I am deffo sure it's progesterone gyno


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## Moonbeam (Jul 20, 2011)

I havent done a cycle yet but when I get alot of fat in me I notice my nips start to sag a bit. As soon as I loose bf and gain a bit of muscle size it goes. But thats me could well be gyno in your case.


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

It's deffo gyno for me mate. Just do your research & take all the precautions I wish I had. I need to fix it


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## Moonbeam (Jul 20, 2011)

yeah course. Will be taking nolva and clomid pct for sure


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Use protection while on


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

to the OP: there is no such thing as PROGESTERONE GYNO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen

and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone

you will note only oestrogen can cause breast growth.. NOT progesterone. Further its NOT prolactin gyno either:

Read post 73

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/171427-primobolan-lack-info-understanding-5.html

and post 36

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/170664-deca-aromisin-3.html

you need to lower oestrogen when on cycle.

Letro may reduce it now, but it wont get rid of hard lumps, only puffiness.


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks for the reply mate. I don't think i have any lumps, can feel something but dont men have little lumps or something there anyway? Would you recommend a cycle of letro? And or dostinex or prami?


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Bump


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## SWIPS (Jan 30, 2012)

got puffy nips myself after deca and sus cycle, tried everything to get rid of them nuttink has worked, i get lumps on a cycle but tamoxifen usually sortes it out,

tried letro, caber, tamoxifen still no luck with puffy nips

i even run letro on its own for over a month it shot my sex drive dead, and made me wanna do the same ... horrible stuff

so i kinda got use to aving puffy nips now ...


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## Mighty Sparrow (Apr 10, 2011)

Not sure how much of this is fact or usefull to you but I have heard Epistane could be used in your situation, maybe. Heres the link for a read anyway. http://www.predatornutrition.com/Epistane-90-Caps


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Swips sounds bad mate, hope we both sort it. U thought of surgery? I migh try the letro and caber is that doesn't work looks like its surgery which I really dont want!! Cheers Mightysparrow might give it a go


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## Vibora (Sep 30, 2007)

Mighty Sparrow said:


> Not sure how much of this is fact or usefull to you but I have heard Epistane could be used in your situation, maybe. Heres the link for a read anyway. http://www.predatornutrition.com/Epistane-90-Caps


Although unmethylated epi(stanol) was used for gyno related studies in Japan, IBE jumped on this to use as a marketing technique.

I personally had no change when using epi. In some cases epi can also aggravate gyno, so I wouldn't recommend it if gyno removal was your goal.

Take ausbuilt's advice and get some Letro.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Aestheticz said:


> Thanks for the reply mate. I don't think i have any lumps, can feel something but dont men have little lumps or something there anyway? Would you recommend a cycle of letro? And or dostinex or prami?


if you have no solid pea like lump, then yes letro for 4-6weeks should clear it one tab a day. not from a ugl- they are rubbish. after the letro do 20mg tamoxifen (nolva) EOD for 2 weeks to even out your oestrogen without a rebound.

Please re-read my links- its IMPOSSIBLE for dostinex or prami to do ANYTHNG for gyno unless your are LACTATING... (i.e can squeeze milk from your nipple).

gyno is from raised oestrogen - NOTHING else.


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## SWIPS (Jan 30, 2012)

yeah but if dosent have lumps just like me, then letro wont do nuttink coz there is nothink to remove ? mine just puffy cone looking nipples no lumps underneath ( i do get lumps but tamoxifen clears them out )


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks ausbuilt great help! My left nipple itches and peels is this anything to worry about or anything to do with gyno?


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## SWIPS (Jan 30, 2012)

itchy and sore nipples usualy signs of gyno


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

SWIPS said:


> yeah but if dosent have lumps just like me, then letro wont do nuttink coz there is nothink to remove ? mine just puffy cone looking nipples no lumps underneath ( i do get lumps but tamoxifen clears them out )


lumps mean to late, gyno (breasts) have formed (like teenage girls get hard lumps at beginning of breast growth owing ot oestrogen rise in puberty)

In order of effectiveness:

1. Letrozole

2. Arimidex/armoasin

3. nolva.

I've posted studies about this befofre- do a search.



Aestheticz said:


> Thanks ausbuilt great help! My left nipple itches and peels is this anything to worry about or anything to do with gyno?


yes its a sign you have gyno starting.


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

I'll try letro bud. But I haven't been on cycle for around 8 months? Hope letro sorts it. I won't ever be so stupid again


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## brad81 (Mar 29, 2011)

Bit of proviron with the nokva wouldnt hurt either mate


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

What would that dO pal? Isn't it like oral Masteron?


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## SWIPS (Jan 30, 2012)

proviron wudnt do anything for gyno, its mild anti e :S


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## English muscle (Feb 12, 2012)

i think ther cone like appearance you mention is down to feminin fat gain on cycle due to high levels of estrogen and probaly eaten like a machine, i had this before i ran a cutting cycle (one rip) whilst running letro and nolva on a ketosis diet, did the trick for me.


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## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

GET ON THE PHARMA LETRO ASAP


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## brad81 (Mar 29, 2011)

I thought it challenged esterogen at the receptor sites guys?? (proviron)


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

I'll get on the letro and nolva. It looks like fat round my nipples. When they go erect the problem goes & the skin tightens up & the cone shape goes


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

Bump


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

You have been informed by many experienced people to try letro, so why not try it??

Not nolva and letro, just letro for first 4-6 weeks then 2 weeks of nolva EOD to eliminate oestrogen rebound


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

i have the same problem, my nips are sound when i train or am cold, but rest of the time there puffy

iv started taking nolva 40mg a day(gona drop to 20mg), so they dont go worse, and will be on the lettro when i get paid in 4 weeks

edit: any know if "sun pharma" are ugl or proper pharma?? thats wat they sell on that "hyper" site every uses?


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

I think sun pharma are genuine mate not ugl


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

cheers


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> i have the same problem, my nips are sound when i train or am cold, but rest of the time there puffy
> 
> iv started taking nolva 40mg a day(gona drop to 20mg), so they dont go worse, and will be on the lettro when i get paid in 4 weeks
> 
> edit: any know if "sun pharma" are ugl or proper pharma?? thats wat they sell on that "hyper" site every uses?


i use that site for all my AI, SERM, PCT etc. Good products. Sun is good generic manufacturer. I buy their modafinil of another site.



G-man99 said:


> I think sun pharma are genuine mate not ugl


x2 they are a generic pharma, not UGL


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## Bruze (Nov 5, 2011)

Is 2.5mg a dangerous dose to run for 4 weeks for pubertal gyno? Also i've had my growth plates xrayed and told there open and i could grow 2-3 inches by the time i'm 25 will running letro fuse them?

I can't split the doses accurately to try it.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

brad81 said:


> Bit of proviron with the nokva wouldnt hurt either mate


nolva works. Proviron will not in this case. See below.



SWIPS said:


> proviron wudnt do anything for gyno, its mild anti e :S


Correct. Proviron is 1-methyl-DHT. Basically its DHT once it goes through first pass of the liver. DHT is the strongest androgen (5% of test in your body converts to DHT). its what gives you wood (proviron certainly does), can cause acne and of course accelerate baldness fast...

DHT can mildly bind to oestrogen receptor sites, but STRONGLY to the androgen receptor. Nolvadex binds COMPETITIVELY with oestrogen at the breast tissue... and is FAR better than proviron.

Proviron was used on mild l(like 250mg/week) test cycles, before nolvadex was available (AI's are far more recent!)


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bruze said:


> Is 2.5mg a dangerous dose to run for 4 weeks for pubertal gyno? Also i've had my growth plates xrayed and told there open and i could grow 2-3 inches by the time i'm 25 will running letro fuse them?
> 
> I can't split the doses accurately to try it.


Try nolvadex first for 4-6months. Letro may cause you other issues. It wont close over your epiphyseal joints, and men stop growing by 21, but I think letro is overkill for a non AAS user.


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## Bruze (Nov 5, 2011)

I've ran anavar for 8 weeks at 120mg and SuperDrol at 30mg for 4 weeks. I was considering running test but got my growth plates done just to make sure i was good to go and turns out there wide open lol. So i would consider myself a AAS user if i've ran 2 oral cycles.

So Nolvadex 20mg ED for 4-6 weeks you mean (Hoping not month's, that's expensive)

What other issues would Letro cause? 2.5mg i've been told is a lethal dose.

Also upon further research it's not test that fuses the epiphyseal growth plates plate, it's oestrogen.. A young lad will have a rise in test than being to sexually mature, then a rise in oestrogen around 16-21 will fuse the plates forever. So i'm correct in saying i could run a long ester test and use Letrozole or Arimidex along side, making sure i don't get a too high rise in oestrogren to fuse the plate, than run it again post cycle and finally finish with Nolvadex to even out my oestrogren levels.

Or another case i could take a hefty dose of nandrolone, shut down my natural test completly, stay on a AI completley. Take mild doses of TEST and GH and grow FOREVER. (Lol just joking, i bet it could be possible)


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## Bruze (Nov 5, 2011)

Background

The role of oestrogens in the closure of growth plates in both sexes is unequivocal. We postulated that inhibition of oestrogen synthesis in boys with delayed puberty would delay maturation of the growth plates and ultimately result in increased adult height.

Methods

We did a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled study in which we treated boys with constitutional delay of puberty with testosterone and placebo, or testosterone and letrozole. Boys who decided to wait for the spontaneous progression of puberty without medical intervention composed the untreated group.

Findings

Letrozole effectively inhibited oestrogen synthesis and delayed bone maturation. Progression of bone maturation was slower in the letrozole group than in the placebo group. In 18 months, bone age had advanced 1·1 (SD 0·8) years in the untreated group and 1·7 (0·9) years in the group treated with testosterone and placebo, but only 0·9 (0·6) years in the letrozole group (p=0·03 between the treatment groups). Predicted adult height did not change significantly in the untreated group and in the placebo group, whereas in the group treated with letrozole the increase was 5·1 (3·7) cm (p=0·004).

Interpretation

Our findings suggest that if oestrogen action is inhibited in growing adolescents, adult height will increase. This finding provides a rationale for studies that aim to delay bone maturation in several growth disorders.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

yes mate, its basically true, what you've posted. letro or arimidex could well keep the joints open longer, and of course GH administration at this point would lead to bone elongation/growth, the amount that you would grow, and the proportions that you would get, is anybodies, guess, and unless you're 5"5" or less I honestly don't know if I'd be game to try. However, theoretically, yes you could get taller...

the reason i recommended nolva first, is precisely because it won't do the above. Interestingly though, look at the effects on GH/IGF-1 production in the body:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809

tamoxifen suppresses GH... and conseqently igf-1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488

anastrozole (arimidex) increases it....

but when i search for letrozole i keep getting the studies about increased growth in boys:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/115/2/e245.full

althought this study notes letrozole decreasing IGF-1 in the young, but not the elderly:

http://www.eje-online.org/content/160/3/397.full

however based on the pediatric journal, plus your reference, perhaps you may benefit from taking letrozole for your gyno..

By the way when i sald nolva for 4-6 i meant months, not weeks. same for the AIs.


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## Vinney (Apr 27, 2011)

Aestheticz said:


> Bump


any photos of ur gyno mate ?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

daniel_3855 said:


> just jumping in with my puffyness lol..
> 
> 8 years ago 1st cycle androlics.. gave me puffy nips! young and dumb...still currently have puffy nips cone type..when erect they look great lol.. in the past 5 years i tried letro prami nolva adex aromasin in loads of different ways...dropped bf to 8% looked worse! maybe because i got ripped so made them stand out more...they never got any better after all the combo's i tried!...iam currently running nolva 20mg/ed for 6 months currently on cycle aswell... this is my last attempt on getting rid of them! if not will just live with it....the nolva idea came along as seen a couple of guys got rip of same problem so 50/50 chance it may work...


Before you give up mate you should look into raloxifene


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## Bruze (Nov 5, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> yes mate, its basically true, what you've posted. letro or arimidex could well keep the joints open longer, and of course GH administration at this point would lead to bone elongation/growth, the amount that you would grow, and the proportions that you would get, is anybodies, guess, and unless you're 5"5" or less I honestly don't know if I'd be game to try. However, theoretically, yes you could get taller...


Would love to experiment with GH but the costs and fears of jaw growth ect really put me off.. I mean at 173cm i'm ok but 178cm would be ideal. My girl is 168cm and loves to wear her heels lol. My mums 164cm and dads 169cm, bypassing genetic potential seems like cheating mother nature, sounds good to me lol.

Letrozole has a half life of 4 days.. So considering using a pill splitter and running 1.25mg every 4 days until August time than will measure and get my growth plates x-rayed again. I am doubting Letrozole on it's own will give me any growth... I don't know what other factors go into play at a younger age to grow.. Gh? test?


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## SWIPS (Jan 30, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Before you give up mate you should look into raloxifene


agree, raloxifene is much better when it comes to attacking gyno then tamoxifen ....


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Bruze said:


> Would love to experiment with GH but the costs and fears of jaw growth ect really put me off.. I mean at 173cm i'm ok but 178cm would be ideal. My girl is 168cm and loves to wear her heels lol. My mums 164cm and dads 169cm, bypassing genetic potential seems like cheating mother nature, sounds good to me lol.
> 
> Letrozole has a half life of 4 days.. So considering using a pill splitter and running 1.25mg every 4 days until August time than will measure and get my growth plates x-rayed again. I am doubting Letrozole on it's own will give me any growth... I don't know what other factors go into play at a younger age to grow.. Gh? test?


jaw growth no, thats only an issue with acromegaly, which is a pituitary issue. You won't get it from taking 1-2iu of GH a day.. which is a full days worth (for an adult). As a teen male, your"s is released in spurts, so if you try it, you would more likely do 4-5iu 2-3days in a row then nothing for a week and repeat.

Generic GH is not expensive if used this way

by the way letrozole has a much shorter half life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letrozole

2days. I would take it the same way they used in the peadiatric study though.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

I joined the Navy in 2005 at 21 and was 191cm and by time I was 25 I was 194cm, so there still might be hope yet!


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

were can i get raloxifene from, never heard of it?

is it better than letro?

am taking 20mg of nolva a day till i get paid in 3 weeks and then gona order letrol, would raloxifene be better the get rid of the puffy nipples?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> were can i get raloxifene from, never heard of it?
> 
> is it better than letro?
> 
> am taking 20mg of nolva a day till i get paid in 3 weeks and then gona order letrol, would raloxifene be better the get rid of the puffy nipples?


letrozole is by far the most effective, and is 99.9% bioavailable. There is no better AI.


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

ausbuilt: cheers for replay

thing is i have maybe 2 lumps under each nipple, but only about the size of grains of rice maybe so not botherd, its just the puffy nipples that do my head in

also i stay on cycle all year round, so do i have to run nolva all year round or just when i go over 1g a week?

how long should i run letro for, 4weeks? (1tab aday) then jump backon nolva?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jaypricel19 said:


> ausbuilt: cheers for replay
> 
> thing is i have maybe 2 lumps under each nipple, but only about the size of grains of rice maybe so not botherd, its just the puffy nipples that do my head in
> 
> ...


look, TRT dose of test is 250mg/3 weeks of sustanon, or 1g of test undecanoate/10weeks.

a normal male puts out 50mg of test week (7mg/day).

if you do 500mg/test week, you're at 10x normal. You think your body won"t aromatise pretty much as soon as you're over the TRT dose??

I"m also on cycle, going on 11months next week. 2g test/week, 1.6g anabolics (non aromatising). I take 1mg of Arimidex ED, and 50mg Clomid EOD.

If you plan on doing nolva, yes, 20mg day, entire cycle.

I use arimdex for a number of reasons:

1. Nolvadex reduces gains by reducing IGF-1:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809

2. Arimidex is proven ot INCREASE IGF-1, hence improve REAL gains (not water like nolvadex):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488

3. Arimidex is better in PCT with Clomid, Arimidex increases test 58%!

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

up to you what you run though, but run something!!


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## Aestheticz (Apr 2, 2011)

I'll try & get a pic up this weekend pal. Everybody I know who sells gear can't get hold on Letrozole!


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## Mogadishu (Aug 29, 2014)

ausbuilt said:


> to the OP: there is no such thing as PROGESTERONE GYNO:
> 
> Estrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


Sorry for bump but is it possible to get gyno from tren/deca even when estrogen is controled with an AI? You say prog-gyno doesnt exist and gyno is only caused by excessive estrogen.

How come ppl claim they still get gyno then? Lies or just insufficient dose of AI?


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