# Boys help me out. Do I keep bulking or cut? (pics)



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't know what to do. I started at 12.3 stone in may and i'm now at 13.2 stone. When I started the bulk I was a bit chubby so I don't think I've put a massive amount of fat on. I'm no way near finished to how I want to be. But my aim is to bulk through the winter and then try and get down to single figures.

Anyway, who better to ask than the brutally honest members of UK-M.

SO

Stats:

age:19

Weight: 13.2 stone

Height: 5ft 10

Been training and eating 'properly' since may this year. Dabled at it for about a year previously.

Excuse the quality of some pictures lights not the best.



So yeah, theres a selection of pictures aha. What do you think I should do?

P.S. Trackies are about 2 sizes too small


----------



## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

Cut or Recomp IMO


----------



## cub (Jul 14, 2011)

I'd recommend keep bulking with a clean diet and cut when you've put on lots of muscle.


----------



## Ninja_smurf (Jun 4, 2012)

i think you should get new trackies for a start mate!

Whats your long term goals?


----------



## Need2Grow (Jun 4, 2011)

To be honest, if you need to ask - you need to cut :beer:

(most of the time anyway) :tongue:


----------



## MURPHYZ (Oct 1, 2011)

I think you'd be ok to carry on with a clean bulk tbh.


----------



## CJ (Apr 24, 2006)

In my opinion...don't complicate things.

Just get a structures diet that will allow you to gas some muscle whilst keeping .bf low.

You'll be amazed with what can be achieved with consistency buddy.

Good luck with your journey


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Ninja_smurf said:


> i think you should get new trackies for a start mate!
> 
> Whats your long term goals?


Mine where in the wash aha.

Just a decent physique tbh mate. Always been abit chubs and never seen abs so would be nice


----------



## TG123 (Apr 10, 2012)

lean bulk


----------



## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

You'll notice your gains much more though if you lowered you bf % abit mate


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Cals were previously at 3000+ but I dropped too 2800 with lower carbs about 2 weeks a go


----------



## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

If you want to be "big" I would lean bulk, although a strict cut would make you look more defined and more muscular.

Depends on end goal, how's the wheels look?


----------



## Ninja_smurf (Jun 4, 2012)

Jd123 said:


> Mine where in the wash aha.
> 
> Just a decent physique tbh mate. Always been abit chubs and never seen abs so would be nice


So your wearing your girlfriends trackies then? lol

If you do a cut to the point of low bf and visable abs you will shed a good bit of weight. IMO you may look a bit skinny. Youre not that heavy at the mo, could afford to put on a few more lbs first.

Good lean bulk mate.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Tbh my diet wasnt a eat anything one. Stuck to chicken and pasta for basically all of it.

And no little brothers ones aha


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Whats your training routine mate?

You need a lot more muscle and shape, especially in the arms. Not trying to be funny, you want honest opinions.

Post your routine up buddy, see if I can help you


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Ben_Dover said:


> If you want to be "big" I would lean bulk, although a strict cut would make you look more defined and more muscular.
> 
> Depends on end goal, how's the wheels look?


Not bad, calves arnt the best though


----------



## Ninja_smurf (Jun 4, 2012)

Jd123 said:


> Tbh my diet wasnt a eat anything one. Stuck to chicken and pasta for basically all of it.
> 
> And no little brothers ones aha


You dont have a little brother do you? little sisters? lol

How much pasta were you eating? Better with rice mate


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> Whats your training routine mate?
> 
> You need a lot more muscle and shape, *especially in the arms*. Not trying to be funny, you want honest opinions.
> 
> Post your routine up buddy, see if I can help you


Yeah my arm's are crap.

Split it into seperate muscle groups as I preffered it.

Chest:

Incline db press 4x6-8

decline bench 3x6-8

dips 4xfailure

pec dexk 3xfailure

cross overs 3x8

Back:

Pull ups 3x failure

CG pull downs 3x6-8

t-bars 4x6-8

dead lifts 5x5

db rows 3x6-8

legs:

Leg press 4x6-8

Squats 5x5

standing calf raise 3x12

Ham machine 3x6-8

Shoulders:

DB press 3x6-8

front raise 3x6-8

Lat raise 3x6-8

Tris:

CGBP 4x6-8

Dips 4xfailure

Skulls 3x6-8

Bi's:

Close grips chins 3xfailure

BB curls 3x6-8

Conc. curls 3x6-8

Cheers


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Ninja_smurf said:


> You dont have a little brother do you? little sisters? lol
> 
> How much pasta were you eating? Better with rice mate


Was 170g pasta a day. Now at 125g per day. 100g oats and 200g sweet potato's


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Yeah my arm's are crap.
> 
> Split it into seperate muscle groups as I preffered it.
> 
> ...


Is that a 5 day bodypart split mate with arms being trained on their own too?


----------



## ki3rz (Sep 12, 2011)

You need some more rest in there, are you training 6 days a week then? Remember muscles grow when you're resting pal


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

5 days. Legs with shoulders. I go all out on each day so yes I have given arms a separate day


----------



## lotus (May 30, 2009)

I would cut the fat you will prob lean out at under 70 kg , then slowly up the cals and add Quality lean mass


----------



## Fullhouse (Mar 31, 2010)

I'd keep bulking mate, you need to add more muscle before you start cutting


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

My answer would have to be do you want too look.like you train or look fat.

You decide.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Yeah especially on the old arms.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Milky said:


> My answer would have to be do you want too look.like you train or look fat.
> 
> You decide.


Obviously like I train. Are you suggesting a cut then?


----------



## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Obviously like I train. Are you suggesting a cut then?


Cant see your pics on my phone mate but agree with what Scot said.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Milky said:


> Cant see your pics on my phone mate but agree with what Scot said.


Ah right ok bud. Yeah I get what he is saying.

Get on a computer and have a look mate


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> 5 days. Legs with shoulders. I go all out on each day so yes I have given arms a separate day


Okay mate. This is my suggestion but up to you of course. Not saying splits don't work, just not the best way imo to build a base of mass as quick as possible. I would recommend splits much later once you've got your strength and size up there.

The theory is simple really. The more frequently you can train a muscle the more growth phases you get and training a muscle once a week and hammering it into oblivion is not the best way. Its not just the muscle that has to recover but your central nervous system too.

Cut out as much isolation work as possible and stick to the basic compound movements. Try the following:

Lyles bulking routine which is an upper/lower split hitting each bodypart twice a week.

5 x 5 training and its many variations.

I train Sat and Tue and ONLY do the following: I'm indirectly hitting similar muscle groups twice a week.

Sat=Squat, Bench, Row, Curl

Tue=Deadlift, Front press, Chins & Dips (weighted)

Get your squats and deads up to 2 x your bodyweight and bench 1.5 x your bodyweight.

You WILL recover better, your weights WILL go up and that means MORE muscle.

After that your could try something like the Texas Method which is also good for intermediate/advanced trainers.

Simple routines work because you can put much more intensity into each short routine.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> Okay mate. This is my suggestion but up to you of course. Not saying splits don't work, just not the best way imo to build a base of mass as quick as possible. I would recommend splits much later once you've got your strength and size up there.
> 
> The theory is simple really. The more frequently you can train a muscle the more growth phases you get and training a muscle once a week and hammering it into oblivion is not the best way. Its not just the muscle that has to recover but your central nervous system too.
> 
> ...


Right so stick to pure compounds? And which one do you prefer mate. Lyles or 5x5?

Would you continue the bulk but with lower cals or start at defecit?


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

I do 5 x 5 for a few months then switch to an upper/lower split.

If you cut cals too much your strength increases will suffer tbh. Up to you really but as your gain size your body WILL burn more calories just to exist as muscle tissue is metabolically active and fat is not. In other words the more lean muscle tissue you have the more calories your body needs.

Cut calories gradually, throw some cardio in there (forget jogging though as your squats will suffer) fast walking for an hour on a slight inclined treadmill in the am on an empty stomach would really help)

Start light on the weights, about 90% of your 5 rep max and increase 5lbs a week. Keep the cycle going as long as possible even reducing weights by 2.5 lbs per week. Bar weight means more strength, more strength equals more muscle (99% of the time).


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> I do 5 x 5 for a few months then switch to an upper/lower split.
> 
> If you cut cals too much your strength increases will suffer tbh. Up to you really but as your gain size your body WILL burn more calories just to exist as muscle tissue is metabolically active and fat is not. In other words the more lean muscle tissue you have the more calories your body needs.
> 
> ...


Cheers for the help bud.

Been looking at lyles and 5x5 routines. Quite like the look of the lyles one. Only thing is though flat benching seems to aggrivate my shoulder, but since doing incline I have been fine?


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> @davidmc1961
> 
> Why wud his legs suffer from cv?
> 
> ...


Big league fan actually


----------



## leeds_01 (Aug 6, 2008)

mate u need to cut

bring it down to 10% and see what needs building


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> @davidmc1961
> 
> Why wud his legs suffer from cv?
> 
> ...


IMO when I did road jogging my squats suffered, but I am 51 years of age buddy! And IMO the PUMP has nothing to do with muscle growth.

Look at some powerlifters legs, they don't worry about a pump.

Fast walking is less stressful on the joints too and WILL burn bodyfat.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Riggggghhht. So defecit and a change of routines then? With some light cardio thrown in?

Wish I'd asked this question months a go


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Riggggghhht. So defecit and a change of routines then? With some light cardio thrown in?
> 
> Wish I'd asked this question months a go


Good luck mate.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> Good luck mate.


Cheers pal! How much of a defecit should I go for and for how long?

Sorry for all the questions. Determined to get it right. Reps


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Cheers pal! How much of a defecit should I go for and for how long?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. Determined to get it right. Reps


I'm no expert on nutrition tbh and I don't even follow a diet. You need to determine your BMR and work it out from there, plenty of info on the net. But the basic idea would be to cut calories by say 250 per day and see how your scale weight goes. I wouldn't try to lose more than 2lbs per week though.

Try looking in the nutrition section on this site too, must be plenty of info there buddy.


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

dutch_scott said:


> Pump has nothing to do with it? What the major precursor for fascia stretching , gh pulse and signalling the stress response??? Sorry but pump means e wry thing as hypertrophy occurs around 15-20sevonds time under tension where lactic acid is at its peak where anaerobic (ATP) is gone hence 12 reps is sweet spot
> 
> Also most power lifter ie world champs below 100 kg havnt got big legs
> 
> ...


Interesting comments bro and maybe i'm wrong but for me at least I have never trained for a pump, rarely go over 5 reps to be honest yet I've still gained size. I agree with your comments about powerlifters legs up to a point though. The under 100kg guys are trying to stay in a weight class so calories are a big issue here. If your eating like a girl scout then no amount of training/rep ranges will get you massive. IMO food is the most anabolic stuff we can put in our bodies.


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Riggggghhht. So defecit and a change of routines then? With some light cardio thrown in?
> 
> Wish I'd asked this question months a go


Yes mate, light cardio and not so much that it interferes with your ability to recover.

I've added a link for you to have a look out. Hopefully it will cut out all the confusion surrounding rep ranges, pumping, splits etc.

http://jasonferruggia.com/how-many-reps-to-build-muscle/

Also take a look at some powerlifters, one example would be Kirk Karwoski. Trains mainly low reps and massive.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> Yes mate, light cardio and not so much that it interferes with your ability to recover.
> 
> I've added a link for you to have a look out. Hopefully it will cut out all the confusion surrounding rep ranges, pumping, splits etc.
> 
> ...


Cheers pal! With routines like this could db press be substituted for barbell bench?


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Cheers pal! With routines like this could db press be substituted for barbell bench?


Yes mate. But you can handle more weight using a bar and more weight means....you guessed it!

Check your technique first as you might be using too much front delt when benching. Also try some rotator cuff exercises which might help your shoulder issues. Try all this first before abandoning the bench press but if you still gets problems then of course switch to dumbells.

We're all made differently and you may have a genuine issue with the bench.

Google bench press form etc, youtube or whatever. Loads of info there mate.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> Yes mate. But you can handle more weight using a bar and more weight means....you guessed it!
> 
> Check your technique first as you might be using too much front delt when benching. Also try some rotator cuff exercises which might help your shoulder issues. Try all this first before abandoning the bench press but if you still gets problems then of course switch to dumbells.
> 
> ...


Yeah I've been looking at rotator cuff exercises. Looking forward to getting started, think I'm going to go for the lyles one. Would t-bar rows suffice instead of bent over rows? I prefer them


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Yeah I've been looking at rotator cuff exercises. Looking forward to getting started, think I'm going to go for the lyles one. Would t-bar rows suffice instead of bent over rows? I prefer them


Don't see why not tbh. Or even dumbell rows with your knee and hand supporting your back.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> Don't see why not tbh. Or even dumbell rows with your knee and hand supporting your back.


Yeah I like db rows. Might mix it up a bit. Do your legs not kill doing them twice a week?


----------



## Davidmc1961 (Nov 1, 2008)

Jd123 said:


> Yeah I like db rows. Might mix it up a bit. Do your legs not kill doing them twice a week?


If your going balls to the fall twice a week then yes, but the idea is to start light and add poundage gradually so you can recover.


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

Davidmc1961 said:


> If your going balls to the fall twice a week then yes, but the idea is to start light and add poundage gradually so you can recover.


Ah right ok. And I read you rep range link. But looking at the lyle McDonald routine for example incline bench press its saying rep range 10-12? Instead of the 5-8 recommended by your link? Confusing as aha


----------



## Guest (Aug 13, 2012)

Mon: Lower

Squat: 3-4X6-8/3? (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3? rest)

SLDL/ Normal Deads or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3?

Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2?

Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2?

Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3?

Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2?

Tue: Upper A

Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3?

T-bar Row: 3-4X6-8/3?

Incline bench 2-3X10-12/2?

Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2?

CGBP: 1-2X12-15/1.5?

BB Curls: 1-2X12-15/1.5?

Fri: Upper B

Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3?

Seated Row: 3-4X6-8/3?

shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2?

Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2?

Dips: 1-3X12-15/1.5?

Hammer curls: 1-2X12-15/1.5?

Just come up with this, used the Lyle macdonald programme and changed up some exercises. Look better?


----------



## DigIt (Jun 20, 2012)

You're lifts are consistently going up, yeah? Lower cals by 300, mainly carbs see how you get on. Gains stop? up carbs a bit...test yourself out mate


----------



## Guest (Aug 13, 2012)

DigBick said:


> You're lifts are consistently going up, yeah? Lower cals by 300, mainly carbs see how you get on. Gains stop? up carbs a bit...test yourself out mate


Yeah I've got quite a bit stronger since may.

I've lowered 250 from maintenance and come up with these macro's

carbs:99g

fats:	60g

protein:286g

Look decent enough?


----------



## DigIt (Jun 20, 2012)

Jd123 said:


> Yeah I've got quite a bit stronger since may.
> 
> I've lowered 250 from maintenance and come up with these macro's
> 
> ...


get protein to an even 250, carbs at 100-120 and fats good around 60 maybe a bit more :thumb:


----------

