# Anabolic Steroids Have Few Long-Term Side Effects In Bodybuilders



## prebbz (May 21, 2009)

Every bodybuilder, powerlifter, athlete and gym rat who has ever taken anabolic steroids (AAS) worries at one point or another about the risks involved. Even though there are not designated parking spots at gyms for ambulances to make it easier for EMTs to push oversized gurneys to the squat racks, every public statement made by politicians, health agencies and celebrity athletes emphasizes the potential damage to a person's health in addition to tagging AAS users as cheaters.Certainly, AAS use carries risks, as does the use of any drug.

Unfortunately, the true scope and degree of that risk is unknown, as AAS research has been stunted due to biases in funding and ethical concerns from traditionally ultra-conservative Institutional Review Boards (IRBs). Clinical research involving humans and animals is approved by an IRB prior to recruiting volunteers to ensure that the subjects will not be exposed to significant or unnecessary risks. At this time, the risk profile for testosterone use appears to be dose-related, with doses that result in plasma (blood) concentrations well outside the normal range (both above and below), leading to side effects that range from temporary and trivial to serious and permanent&#8230;potentially fatal in rare cases.

Not only do the risks depend upon the concentration achieved; age, gender (sex), AAS used and underlying health conditions (sometimes undiagnosed) in the user need to be considered as well. Extremely young (adolescents or children) and elderly people may not be able to tolerate the sudden or extreme swing in androgen concentrations; women are much more sensitive to changes in androgen levels and may develop features that would go unnoticed or be of little consequence in men; while testosterone is generally well-tolerated, other AAS may affect certain tissues or behaviors negatively; and lastly, the existence of psychiatric or health conditions that may be stimulated or accelerated by fluctuations in androgens are relevant concerns (certain cancers, mania, depression, etc).

Nonetheless, demand for AAS remains high, particularly among adults who wish to improve their appearance, quality of life or health. Why is there such a disparity? Why do adults who are seeking to be healthier and more vital choose to use hormones that are supposed to be so dangerous? Frankly, most users do not perceive AAS to be dangerous and readily accept the side effects they realize in exchange for the tangible benefits of increased muscle mass and strength, not to mention the positive response of peers.1 However, is it perception or reality that is influencing AAS users? After all, the medical literature is replete with cases of liver damage, heart attacks, behavior problems and premature deaths.

Conversely, other papers have noted that in consideration of the assumed prevalence of AAS in the United States, the number of cases of serious adverse events is relatively low, especially when one considers that the majority of users are self-educated or even untrained in AAS use, that the drugs are often of undocumented purity and potency and may be adulterated with other substances and are also commonly distributed through dubious channels.6 Clinical studies of adult men, both young and elderly, administering doses in the range commonly reported by AAS users (300mg-600mg/week testosterone enanthate) did not result in significant adverse effects during six months of AAS use.7,8 Yet, while the controlled conditions of those studies resemble AAS use "in the wild," they do not account for many issues related to AAS use that may affect health, such as the use of adjunct drugs to increase AAS potency or prevent/treat side effects.

Though there have been reports detailing the experiences of AAS users, ranging from data collected during the long, state-sponsored doping program for athletes in the German Democratic Republic to the unreleased data collected by Victor Conte during the "BALCO" doping scandal, long-term studies of unsupervised, nonmedical AAS users are rarely published.9 The International Journal of Sports Medicine has released a paper ahead of print, written by clinical researchers from two universities in Italy that followed 20 bodybuilders for two years who had not used AAS prior to the study.10 During this time, the subjects administered drugs they obtained, in the manner they chose, without guidance from the researchers other than an introductory primer on the known or potential risks associated with AAS use.

The subjects were examined quite thoroughly prior to the onset of the study, then every six months for two years. In addition to answering questions about AAS use, the subjects also provided their diet and supplement history, training routine and background, were physically measured (including testicular volume) and blood work was drawn to assess the effect on the liver, lipids/cholesterol and other factors involved in cardiovascular health, heart function by echocardiography, endocrine hormones, glucose and insulin sensitivity, immune function, as well as prostate exams and semen analyses. This study incorporated as complete a workup as one can get without being abducted and probed by space aliens.

Seven subjects withdrew from the study due to emotional challenges or sexual dysfunction, leaving 13 who completed the two-year term. As would be expected, the subjects gained lean mass and lost fat mass, along with suppression of the pituitary hormones LH and FSH, resulting in smaller testicles (2 percent to 40 percent smaller); two of the subjects experienced azoospermia (no sperm) while two others had very low sperm counts.7,8,11 Most other hormones were unaffected by AAS use (including testosterone and estradiol, surprisingly), the exception being thyroid hormone. Both free T3 (the active form of thyroid hormone) and TSH (the regulatory hormone that controls thyroid hormone production) were lower, though remained in the normal range&#8230;yet the subjects still experienced apparent fat loss. Gynecomastia (bitch tits) occurred in five of the subjects.

While total cholesterol and LDL (bad) cholesterol were unchanged, HDL (good) cholesterol was reduced though the effect is known to be transient (returning to normal after AAS are discontinued) from earlier studies.12,13 Interestingly, triglycerides (fats in the blood), which were already low in these subjects, decreased even further. Some clinicians believe triglycerides are more important in regard to cardiovascular risk than cholesterol.14 Another factor associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease (lipoprotein a) trended downward, though the change did not reach statistical significance. Additional metabolic findings reported were reductions in blood glucose (sugar) and insulin.

This is a very powerful finding, as high blood sugar and insulin resistance increase the risk of developing the Metabolic Syndrome and pre-diabetes, as well as chance of future heart attack or stroke.15 Improved insulin sensitivity may also explain some of the fat loss realized by the subjects. The authors noted that this effect may be directly related to the increase in muscle mass, allowing for more effective and healthier sugar control. While the on-cycle reduction in HDL does cause some concern, the other changes appear to balance out the metabolic effects to a neutral or even positive physical state.

The liver enzyme studies did show elevations in two of the hormones measured, but these changes are known to occur with intense exercise; a third enzyme actually decreased, suggesting much of the change seen reflected muscle strain/damage as opposed to liver.10,16 Two of the subjects (both using oral AAS) did experience a doubling of AST and LDH, which would prompt further examination in a doctor's office. Ultrasound imaging showed no changes in liver structure, though several of the subjects entered the study with fatty liver, possibly due to the high protein content of the diet, according to the study authors. Since AAS are known to increase the production of red blood cells, clinicians monitor the hematocrit to make sure the blood is not becoming "too thick." This effect has been seen in studies involving elderly men on testosterone replacement therapy, but none of the subjects in this series experienced a dangerous elevation in red blood cell mass.17 Also, immune function measures were not affected in a clinically significant fashion.

All told, the AAS users appeared to avoid any untoward effects of significance, with the exception of gynecomastia. The authors stated in the paper that there were no changes in the structure or function of either the heart or the liver outside of those expected in a group of power-trained athletes.10 In fact, the greatest concern raised by the authors was the possibility of a drug interaction due to the numerous drugs and supplements consumed. The final paragraph of the study is quite enlightening: "The picture emerging is one of a knowledgeable population of 'users' integrated into a subculture of clandestine use of drugs, able to manipulate substances in order to maximize the 'advantages' and minimize the disadvantages."

10 One might walk away from this study with a warm, fuzzy feeling that AAS use is not so dangerous after all and that even first-time users can achieve gains in muscle mass and definition relatively safely. Really, despite the lack of any apparent adverse side effects, one need realize there are many limitations to this report. First off, the number of subjects is very small. Secondly, seven of the 20 dropped out, primarily due to emotional or sexual problems. Third, five experienced gynecomastia and four became infertile, at least temporarily. Fourth, the subjects were not examined uniformly on-cycle or off-cycle, so it is likely that each time point represents a random mix. I think this is one of the biggest flaws of the study, as each data point has no relation to standard conditions. Fifth, the drugs vary all across the scale of AAS, including prohormones.

Doses, number of cycles, duration of cycle, pattern (such as pyramiding), use of adjunct drugs (GH, thyroid hormone, clenbuterol, hCG, Clomid, etc.) are all different. Sixth, the drugs were sourced through the black market and the contents were not analyzed to determine potency and purity. Truly, the most amazing result of this study is that any significant findings were evident; those that were reported were generally of little clinical significance.

Further, from this study, it appears that the negative effects were balanced by other metabolic adaptations such that one could argue that the AAS use promoted greater health. In the end, this study, despite its extensive examinations and long-term data collection, provides little real knowledge about the health risks/benefits of AAS use. Hopefully, the authors will repeat the study looking at changes relative to periods of use and non-use under more uniform conditions. As it stands, we have no idea what impact aromatase inhibitors, GH and insulin have on a person during and after prolonged periods of AAS use. To end on a more positive note, this study certainly did not Reveal any significant negative effects among these AAS-using bodybuilders over a two-year period of use.

References:

1. Grogen S, Shepherd S, et al. Experiences of anabolic steroid use: in-depth interviews with men and women bodybuilders. J Health Psychol, 2006;11:845-56.

2. Maravelias C, Dona A, et al. Adverse effects of anabolic steroids in athletes. A constant threat. Toxicol Lett, 2005;158:167-75.

3. Stimac D, Milic S, et al. Androgenic/Anabolic steroid-induced toxic hepatitis. J Clin Gastroenterol, 2002;35:350-2.

4. Di Paolo M, Agozzino M, et al. Sudden anabolic steroid abuse-related death in athletes. Int J Cardiol, 2007;114:114-7.

5. Fineschi V, Riezzo I, et al. Sudden cardiac death during anabolic steroid abuse: morphologic and toxicologic findings in two fatal cases of bodybuilders. Int J Legal Med, 2007;121:48-53.

6. Hoffman JR, Ratamess NA. Medical issues associated with anabolic steroid use: are they exaggerated? J Sports Sci Med, 2006;5:182-93.

7. Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, et al. Older men are as responsive as young men to the anabolic effects of graded doses of testosterone on the skeletal muscle. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2005;90:678-88.

8. Sinha-Hikim I, Artaza J, et al. Testosterone-induced increase in muscle size in healthy young men is associated with muscle fiber hypertrophy. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab, 2002;283:E154-64.

9. Franke WW, Berendonk B. Hormonal doping and androgenization of athletes: a secret program of the German Democratic Republic government. Clin Chem, 1997;43:1262-79.

10. Bonetti A, Tirelli F, et al. Side Effects of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids Abuse. Int J Sports Med, 2007 Nov 14;[Epub ahead of print].

11. Turek PJ, Williams RH, et al. The reversibility of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia. J Urol, 1995;153:1628-30.

12. Applebaum-Bowden D, Haffner SM, et al. The dyslipoproteinemia of anabolic steroid therapy: increase in hepatic triglyceride lipase precedes the decrease in high-density lipoprotein2 cholesterol. Metabolism, 1987;36:949-52.

13. Hartgens F, Rietjens G, et al. Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids on apolipoproteins and lipoprotein (a). Br J Sports Med, 2004;38:253-9.

14. Durrington PN. Triglycerides are more important in atherosclerosis than epidemiology has suggested. Atherosclerosis, 1998;141:57-62.

15. Jellinger PS. Metabolic consequences of hyperglycemia and insulin resistance. Clin Cornerstone, 2007;8 Suppl 7:S30-42.

16. Pertusi R, Dickerman RD, et al. Evaluation of aminotransferase elevations in a bodybuilder using anabolic steroids: hepatitis or rhabdomyolysis? J Am Osteopath Assoc, 2001;101:391-4.

17. Coviello AD, Kaplan B, et al. Effects of Graded Doses of Testosterone on Erythropoiesis in Healthy Young and Older Men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2007 Dec 26;[Epub ahead of print].


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nice!


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## ixmorc (Jul 31, 2009)

Bit much to read there, but I think I get the idea.

It's safe to double my dosages.


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

LOAD OF MUMBO JUMBO.NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS...I NEARLY DIED WITH STEROIDS,LIKE ANY DRUG,TAKE IT AND DEAL WITH IT OR LEAVE IT ALONE.CANT STAND THE HEAT STAY OUT THE KITCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

lewis66 said:


> LOAD OF MUMBO JUMBO.NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS...I NEARLY DIED WITH STEROIDS,LIKE ANY DRUG,TAKE IT AND DEAL WITH IT OR LEAVE IT ALONE.CANT STAND THE HEAT STAY OUT THE KITCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lose the attitude pal and turn the caps off.

AAS are not drugs they are synthetic forms of the naturally occuring hormone testosterone.

How did these nearly kill you?

PS, good post.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

I remember the old adage - a bottle of AAS's, a bottle of aspirin or a bottle of sleeping pills. Which won't kill you?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> Lose the attitude pal and turn the caps off.
> 
> AAS are not drugs they are synthetic forms of the naturally occuring hormone testosterone.
> 
> ...


what? not drugs. Think youd better check the definition with websters.


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## KRS (Nov 27, 2008)

lewis66 said:


> LOAD OF MUMBO JUMBO.NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS...I NEARLY DIED WITH STEROIDS,LIKE ANY DRUG,TAKE IT AND DEAL WITH IT OR LEAVE IT ALONE.CANT STAND THE HEAT STAY OUT THE KITCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## A.U.K (May 17, 2008)

I think Lewis has got the point..its no big whoop that his caps locked and he may have well wanted to shout..and I for one defend his right to shout his head off if he wants to..

Give the guy a break..he didnt demonstrate a bad attitude at all but his opinon which is just as valid as anyone elses..shouted or otherwise..


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

lewis66 said:


> LOAD OF MUMBO JUMBO.NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS...I NEARLY DIED WITH STEROIDS,LIKE ANY DRUG,TAKE IT AND DEAL WITH IT OR LEAVE IT ALONE.CANT STAND THE HEAT STAY OUT THE KITCHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Did you actually read the article or did you just skim it? I think you might have misinterpreted what it said.

Basically AAS are bad if used incorrectly, but that there are a lot of knowledgeable guys out there who use ancillaries to minimise the risk and that it is possible to use them relativity safely.

I think the passage of text and your last line 'stay out of the kitchen' are similar, if your not going to respect the risks then you will get burned.

And agreed, take the fcukin caps lock off  :lol:


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

ixmorc said:


> Bit much to read there, but I think I get the idea.
> 
> It's safe to double my dosages.


Whats to much to read if it relates to furthering your knowledge and understanding.....


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

A.U.K said:


> I think Lewis has got the point..its no big whoop that his caps locked and he may have well wanted to shout..and I for one defend his right to shout his head off if he wants to..
> 
> Give the guy a break..he didnt demonstrate a bad attitude at all but his opinon which is just as valid as anyone elses..shouted or otherwise..


Hang on mate, its not a load of mumbo jumbo tho is what mars is saying. In that post their are medical reports and their results so they ARE facts not mumbo jumbo


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

essexboy said:


> what? not drugs. Think youd better check the definition with websters.


Thats what i said, too difficult for you to understand was it?


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

A.U.K said:


> I think Lewis has got the point..its no big whoop that his caps locked and he may have well wanted to shout..and I for one defend his right to shout his head off if he wants to..
> 
> Give the guy a break..he didnt demonstrate a bad attitude at all but his opinon which is just as valid as anyone elses..shouted or otherwise..


It wasn't an opinion it was a shouted statement and a load of mumbo jumbo.:laugh:

I'm still waiting for a reply Lewis.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

for every research paper in pubmed with positive conclusions, there is a negative one with negative finds in terms of things like LDL, heart complications etc etc. you just have to take everything with a grain of salt. this article is ok, not great, nothing new. just be sensible and "should" be fine. im yet to start, but i never stop reading my pubmed articles, some very good ones too


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

The problem is the positive papers get ignored as 'Steroids didn't kill man!!111one' headlines just don't sell papers.

The truth is that there are many, many things that you can do or take that are far worse for you than anabolic steroids. Even common things like smoking, drinking and eating unhealthily are far worse for you than AAS's.


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## dan the man (Apr 1, 2009)

haha just browsing this thread and am also waiting for a reply from lewis lol


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## A.U.K (May 17, 2008)

hilly2008 said:


> Hang on mate, its not a load of mumbo jumbo tho is what mars is saying. In that post their are medical reports and their results so they ARE facts not mumbo jumbo


If you check I didnt say anything about it being Mumbo Jumbo, that was somone else not me..I only mentioned that Lewis having his caps locked was not really a big deal..

I think you pulled the wrong post Hilly..


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> Thats what i said, too difficult for you to understand was it?


No it wasnt. Whats with the sarcasm? the definition of drug is "a substance that alters body function,and/or physiology" if you would like to explain how adding adittional lean tissue, through the consumption of aas, ISNT doing this, then im all ears.If you can respond without acting like a sarcastic schoolboy,it would be appreciated.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

essexboy said:


> what? not drugs. Think youd better check the definition with websters.





essexboy said:


> No it wasnt. Whats with the sarcasm? the definition of drug is "a substance that alters body function,and/or physiology" if you would like to explain how adding adittional lean tissue, through the consumption of aas, ISNT doing this, then im all ears.If you can respond without acting like a sarcastic schoolboy,it would be appreciated.


I was just reciprocating the sarcasm from you're original post :lol: .

Whats the definition of an anabolic androgenic steroid?

Iv'e already told you so it shouldn't be too difficult for you.

Thanks for pointing out the defenition of what a drug is but that wasn't the point you were making :confused1: .

Why don't you just change it around a bit to suit you're own argument, (thats more sarcasm BTW). :cool2:


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

mars1960 said:


> I was just reciprocating the sarcasm from you're original post :lol: .
> 
> Whats the definition of an anabolic androgenic steroid?
> 
> ...


I apologise if it appeared sacastic.it was not my intention.I was slightly taken aback by your statement that aas are not drugs, thats all.i realise what they are,however their effect classes them as such.I get the impression for you Mars that you think im "having a dig" at aas.You become very defensive.Its not the case, i have no moral or ethical issues with any choices made by the individual, im just becoming curious in my old age.perhaps its the realisation that potential "replacement therapy" is a distinct possibility in my near future.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Defenitions x 4 plus thesaurus.

I don't think you will find the word drug in there.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anabolic+steroid


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

mars1960 said:


> Defenitions x 4 plus thesaurus.
> 
> I don't think you will find the word drug in there.
> 
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/anabolic+steroid


couldnt find the word drug to describe aas on this site either... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anabolic%20steroid


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

A.U.K said:


> If you check I didnt say anything about it being Mumbo Jumbo, that was somone else not me..I only mentioned that Lewis having his caps locked was not really a big deal..
> 
> I think you pulled the wrong post Hilly..


got ure pm mate and replied i think you are taking things a little to seriously bud.

I explained my reasoning for pulling ure post. it wasnt offensive or anything else. i took it for you to be backing lewis up and agreeing his shouting is fine.

i see nothing for him to shout about as his experiences are not related to this post because it doesnt cover abuse which is close to what lewis was doing at running over 1g for longer than 6 months with no ai's or good and proper pct in place it seems from his other thread.

hope this and my pm clears things up


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

First of all dont tell me to turn caps off until you own this site or your a moderator. The title of the Blog is mumbo jumbo,I know of 20 people in my gym who are now into there 25th year of bodybuilding and stopped aas for one reason or another.ALL HAVE LIFE LASTING EFFECTS THAT WILL BE WITH THEM UNTIL THEY DIE.If it was worth it i would speak to them individually and write a full report and report back to you, i thought everyone was entitled to there say on here.Come on boys,we go to needle exchanges,we inject our bodys for gain,we get addicted to aas,and were not taking drugs?...and we dont suffer because of it in the long term......ok whatever????????????


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Not all people suffer long term their are hundreds of people who use AAS and have no health issues.

Also these people you mention were they using high amounts for prolonged periods of time like yourself?

were they getting regular blood work done?

There are alot of factors that effect peoples health and i find it hard to believe that all those people you mention have problems that are related to SENSIBLE gear use.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

lewis66 said:


> LOAD OF MUMBO JUMBO.NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS...I NEARLY DIED WITH STEROIDS,


which was your own fault, running a long term cycle of 1.5g of test for 5 months with Odd doses of HCG with no proper PCT protocol. What happened to you is because you didnt follow what should be done by what youve stated in your previous thread regarding this and you keep saying you nearly died?, NO, you got depressed, thats not dying.


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

You dont know my history of aas as the threads i put on hear are not my whole life of dealing with aas.If you are all saying that steroids dont have a long term effect on you then im saying they can and i can prove it through myself and others.Its nothing to do with how long or how much,thats not my argument my argument is that steroids do have long term effects on the human body.All you young guys can be defensive as much as you like as ive been there and did it.Answer this.....If anyone asks you do you take anything do you answer yes!!!!...i bet not.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

lewis66 said:


> You dont know my history of aas as the threads i put on hear are not my whole life of dealing with aas.If you are all saying that steroids dont have a long term effect on you then im saying they can and i can prove it through myself and others.Its nothing to do with how long or how much,thats not my argument my argument is that steroids do have long term effects on the human body.All you young guys can be defensive as much as you like as ive been there and did it.Answer this.....If anyone asks you do you take anything do you answer yes!!!!...i bet not.


Lewis, did you read the article the original poster quoted?


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

There is no such thing as sensible gear use.Gear that we take is abused from the start as it is made to treat ill people with certain illnesses.when your taking steroids your abusing the recommended dose or they dont work????????????????


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

lewis66 said:


> Its nothing to do with how long or how much,thats not my argument my argument is that steroids do have long term effects on the human body.All you young guys can be defensive as much as you like as ive been there and did it.


Im not saying they dont have long term effects, ive never agreed or disagreed with that, the point is you keep telling people on here you nearly died and you still havent given a straight answer to how.

Sorry but if you wanna start shouting statements like that at least have the courtesy to back them up because telling people you nearly died from gear without an explanation is bound to p1ss a lot of people off and get there backs up.

Everyones being defensive because you still havent answered it anywhere and if you have then i appolagise for missing it.

Thats like telling someone you nearly died from eating there new brand of cornflakes, slating there prouct off all the time without even telling them how or what happened. Thats bound to annoy them bud really isnt it?

Im not doubting you nearly died but if you did dont you think its pretty vital to post the full explanation of this up on the board incase the reason is one that could potentially happen to someone else?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

lewis66 said:


> You dont know my history of aas as the threads i put on hear are not my whole life of dealing with aas.If you are all saying that steroids dont have a long term effect on you then im saying they can and i can prove it through myself and others.Its nothing to do with how long or how much,thats not my argument my argument is that steroids do have long term effects on the human body.All you young guys can be defensive as much as you like as ive been there and did it.Answer this.....If anyone asks you do you take anything do you answer yes!!!!...i bet not.


We dont know your full history no so you maye have lead the cleanest life of a monk for years and all your health problems could be from AAS as you seem to make out from some of your posts.

on the other hand you could have gone on the **** once/twice a week for the last 20 years,smoked done rec drugs and done steroids which have caused health benefits.

it is impossible for you to say steroids caused this in me and the other lads in the gym and because of that they will cause you ill health in the long term.

How many bodybuilders are still kicking about into old age that are not dead.

yes they may have ill health but so do most old people wether they took steroids or not. i havnt seen arnie drop dead yet and their are many mahy more we could go on to research if we wanted.

Im not disuputing their may be long term effects but they are no worse than the long term effects of drinking once/twice a week heavily or doing rec drugs or smoking or any of that other ****e.

the only way to not have long term health effects is to stay in a monastry and do sweet fck all.

By ure own admision to abused steroids. So are we. have you abused alcohol? anyother drugs? smoked? done dangerous **** when young?

they are all factors. As long as my doc keeps tellin me im healthy when i get my bloods done evry 3 months then i dont see steroids are destroying my health.


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

So now your saying they do have long term effects???????? just like all other drugs ?????.i have posted on another thread the effects steroids had on me in my life and from starting out at normal cycles to just wanting to be bigger and better lead me to abuse them.The only thing is, as much as the research i did on the good effects of steroids i refused and ignorantly ignored the bad(and there is bad).After 10 years of cycles and cocktails by my trainer when i was proffesional my body couldnt take any more.It was the coming off that hit me.Yes i admit i didnt prepare for it i didnt need to know anything as i was guided by my mentor.The last cycle i did that i mention was a heavy one and like i say i didnt know how to get back my own chemicals to function properly.The effect it had on me was it killed all serotonin levels in my brain and killed all good feelings.So i decided to kill myself,i was stopped on several occasions and i planned my death on even more occasions.As well you all know our brains live on a balance of many chemicals and alot of them are sences of well being and satisfaction.These chemicals are balanced alot by hormone and testosterone.Im not a proffesional and these are words that were told to me to explain my depression and suicidal thoughts, I had alot of other effects that pointed to the steroid intake and the blame for them.almost total erectile disfunction,sex drive,energy,interest.I am from a family of musicians and totaly normal people with no history of depression or mental health.

Ive just seen another thread on here that explains that after a cycle of steroids it is vertually impossible to get the body completely back to the normal it was before(testosterone ) so in the long term this is going to have an effect.............I rest my case.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

nobody disputed that it doesnt have any long term effects mate. do you think you would have had all those issues if you had done some research and conducted a proper pct??

I appreciate you have had bad experiences but to come on here and blame steroids when by your own admission you didnt do the proper research about them or how to come of and you used high doses for prolonged periods of time.

i appreciate your honesty and think its very good of you to put your experiences out their and i no for a fact it helps others better understand what can happen if they abuse things and dont do the proper research.

my only issues is that you are shouting(cap locks) steroids are bad in a thread were it is showing medical studies both were people are doing it healthy and controled and people are doing what they want and this shows no bad side effects.

For the people who bother to spend hours researching like myself before i put any chemical in my body then spend more hours researching the best ways to come off etc or stay on and make the effort like i do to drive 1.5 hours ever couple of months to get full bloods done and check up off a doctor i dont think steroids will have that negative effect on them.

In all honesty bodybuilding as a whole and steroids totally helped me turn my life around. when i was younger i was going out on 3 day benders and not sleeping every weekend from the ages of 17-21. doing lots of drink and rec drugs. if i had continued to do this i am sure the long term effects would have been worse than they are now. bodybuilding and steroids gives me something to focus on and put my energy into as i like the chemical learning side of the anabolics.

regarding not getting your test levels back to normal. they are allways deminishing anyway so the chances of you being 30 and havin test levels like you were when you were 20 are impossible wether steroids or not. it may speed it up but its happening anyway. this is natural not a side effect.


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

interesting debate


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

Your test along with everything else will deminish with age in years but every 10 - 16 week cycle you do nocks some natural balance off no matter what you take to put things right.

Bodybuilding has been my life for the past 20 years.When i first become interested you wouldnt dare to mention steroids as you thought the police would be banging on your door. Now we have places we can chat and have discussions about them,brilliant.

This is all a learning stone and theraputic to me thanks.!


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

lewis66 said:


> There is no such thing as sensible gear use.Gear that we take is abused from the start as it is made to treat ill people with certain illnesses.when your taking steroids your abusing the recommended dose or they dont work????????????????


I totally disagree....if you use gear sensibly, using pct and take the required time off there are next to no long term health risks imo....and for future ref, please do not post with caps lock on mate, it is against the rules

The problems arise when people start and stay on heavy cycles imo.....with next to no time off


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, many people have different ideas of what a cycle is or how much.

I can speak from experience and the dangers steroids have caused me.

Two different people, two different stories, mine first, then a friends.

Was using 500mg to 750mg Iranian test enanthate, and 400mg EQ a week.

Felt strong, delts exploding and also strength gains going up very quick.

One day I could feel my heart beat in my chest, looked at my badge from work and noticed it pulsated with my heart beat.

Next day I drove to Vegas to see my girlfriend and daughter, I could feel my BP was up there.

I stopped to pee and I noticed my urine for the last couple of days was very dark.

I pulled into Vegas and went to a small medical clinic and had them check my BP.

Stage II stroke range.

They ran a urine test and I had blood and calcium in my urine.

Kidneys were having problems.

Went to the doctor after all things cleared up and did another cycle, once off I decided to get my blood done, they found I had the testosterone of a girl, the lipid profile that shocked the doctor 15 HDL, and he put me on TRT and some other meds.

He told me that if I was trying to kill myself than I was doing a good job, he was shocked and did a good amount of yelling at me.

Next guy, my friend Roy.

He has been in contests before, looks better than 99% of the people, had been on cycles of 8 to 12 weeks on, 4 weeks off, no PCT, and did this for about 10 years.

He started having panic attacks, went to the doctor, had the lipid profile of a 70 year old man and his HDL was just 5. Doctor said any lower and he would be dead, in fact he said that he has never seen a 5 HDL and certainly not that of a 40 year old man.

He had issues with high blood pressure (never before), anxiety (never before), compromised lipid profile (never before), and depression.

Doctor loaded him up on all kinds of meds and took that for like 6 months. He ended up getting better, and lost a good part of his build so he went back on some smaller cycles.

Steroids certainly have their fair share of sides, many guys get gyno and that will only be reversed with an op if the AI route does not clear that up (many cases it wont).

Stage II stroke range is no joke, no doubt that there have been some of these but to conclude it was steroid induced would be almost impossible to suggest, yet could very well be the case.

Lipid profile being compromised is no joke, bigger cycles are worse than smaller ones, Winstrol is said to be one of the worst.

Kidney damage (permanent) can happen due to the higher blood pressure and kidney failure from high blood pressure ranks #2 behind diabetes.

Liver damage can happen with the use of long term oral usage, not really common but it can happen.

Saying they are safe is well a bit of a stretch, saying they are dangerous could be something that could be suggested judging by my own experiences and a couple of friends including Roy.

Copy and paste from my doctor friend:

There is an association between hypogonadism (decreased

levels of testosterone) and a number of signs and symptoms, most

notably body composition changes (decrease in muscle mass and

increase in fat mass), decreased muscle strength, bone loss, increased

cardiovascular risk, sexual dysfunction (decreased libido,

decreased spontaneous erections, decreased ejaculate, erection

dysfunction, decreased sexual fantasies, and anorgasmia), decreased

cognitive abilities (memory and concentration), sleep disturbances,

adverse psychological effects (depression, low-self

esteem, guilt, increased stress, and anhedonia), and constitutional

symptoms (general fatigue, agitation/motor dyskinesia, and decreased

appetite) [21].

Upon nonprescription AAS

cessation, psychological disturbances include aggressiveness,

depression, anxiousness, potency problems (libido), sleep disorders,

violent behavior, rage, and suicidal ideation [26,38,39].

In 2002, Brower summarizes the literature on AAS abuse and

dependence and reports of at least 165 cases of addiction or dependence

in the medical literature [7]. Brower also concludes no cases

of dependence have been associated with legitimate prescriptions

of AAS used at therapeutic doses for medical purposes. According

to Brower, individuals who use high doses of AAS over prolonged

periods may develop withdrawal symptoms that include fatigue,

depressed mood, restlessness, anhedonia, impaired concentration,

increased aggression, anorexia, insomnia, decreased libido, self-image

dissatisfaction, androgen desire, headaches, suicidal ideation,

decrease in size/weight/strength, and feeling depressed/down/unhappy

due to size loss when they stop taking AAS and these withdrawal

effects may contribute to a syndrome of dependence.

[21] Testosterone: action, deficiency, substitution. In: Nieschlag E, Behre HM,

editors. Berlin Heidelberg: Springer-Verlag; 1998.

[26] Pope HG, Katz DL. Psychiatric and medical effects of anabolic-androgenic

steroid use: a controlled study of 160 athletes. Arch Gen Psychiatry

1994;51:375-82.

[38] Brower KJ, Blow FC, Eliopulos GA, Beresford TP. Anabolic androgenic steroids

and suicide. Am J Psychiatry 1989;146:1075.

[39] Eklof AC, Thurelius AM, Garle M, Rane A, Sjoqvist F. The anti-doping hot-line, a

means to capture the abuse of doping agents in the Swedish society and a new

service function in clinical pharmacology. Eur J Clin Pharmacol

2003;59:571-7.

[7] Brower KJ. Anabolic steroid abuse and dependence. Curr Psychiatry Rep

2002;4(5):377-437


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!

caps lock on, will be off from now on :thumb:


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Im not having a go lewis im just saying it wasnt very clear to everyone in the reason you nearly lost your life and why you was a bit p1ssed off.

And if its any consalation wether you believe me or not i know exactly what your going through because the exact same thing happened to me when i fooked up a cycle i was on, I burst into tears for no reason, didnt wanna see anyone, wanted to die.

Im actually kind of glad you did bring the depsression side of it up thinking about it, because when I explained what happened to me, all I got was slated and told i was full of sh1t and told it was nothing to do with the gear and had to deal with all of it alone.

I just didnt class this as nearly dying though, maybe thats where the confusion is lol.

Its good you got help from Hacks.

Sorry i misunderstood.


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

Im hear to express my opinion and just state my views.For no other reason than to educated or judicate i dont mind either,Thats what its all about.I wouldnt like to tell my full horror story as it brings back too many bad memories and i have scars to prove it.

By the way......I will be taking steroids again but with thought and understanding,so anyone reading this thread may get the misunderstanding that im against them,quite the contrary, i still love the good side.No need for any appologies are anything else were all in the same boat here.

lew.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

see thats a much better post and i understand were your coming from. your first post in this thread gave off an im against steroids dont touch them it will ruin your life vibe 

will you be keeping a journal to log your progress?


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## lewis66 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes ill keep everyone posted.

Thanks

lew


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## bigjonny (Jan 6, 2009)

ixmorc said:


> Bit much to read there, but I think I get the idea.
> 
> It's safe to double my dosages.


 yeah thats what i was thinking too mate ha ha , but with cation and proper cycles


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

Good article.

Imo steroids become dangerous or carry a lot more side effects if used incorrectly or abused.


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## mikeb19 (Apr 9, 2006)

We all abuse anabolic steroids as we are not using them for their intended purpose. I dont think any of us on here can determine what is safe use and what is abuse. We can only have our own perspective to what we believe is safe use is for ourselves and be as sensible as possible to reduce the chances of getting any short and long term side effects.

Side effects will be different for eveyone. Some may get away without long term side effects whilst others may not.


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## round 2 (Jan 14, 2010)

just to add my bit they stripped my teeth of some calcium.but i was 14-15


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Like any other drug, roids are ok if used in moderation.


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## lostwars (Nov 7, 2008)

theres a great study that was conducted and aided by paul boreson in glamorgan,scotland

it had some shocking findings but i also believe your lifestyle and choices factor in to what your over all health will be if you abuse steriods

drinking or doing rec drugs with aas is madness, i dont mean 4-6 pints once a wk im talking partying it up like an 18 yr old and doing rec drugs is just madness with aas


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## lordgeorge (Jun 30, 2010)

This is an interesting documentary on steroids :

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-pU3E8DuLZw

called ' the man who's arms exploded'

very interesting


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

lordgeorge said:


> This is an interesting documentary *on steroids* :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-pU3E8DuLZw
> 
> ...


  :ban:


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## lordgeorge (Jun 30, 2010)

Ban ? did I do something wrong, I'm sorry I'm new here ? 

please let me know what I did so I won't do it again


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

If it is about Valentino, we all know about him, he is a total t1t and gives the game a bad name. :cursing:


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## lordgeorge (Jun 30, 2010)

fair.

As I said I'm new to the game so I'll just keep my head down on here, I'd appreciate it

if I wasn't banned


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

lordgeorge said:


> This is an interesting documentary on steroids :
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D-pU3E8DuLZw
> 
> ...


Everybody hates that documentary on here. Supposedly shows the effects of steroids. 

All it does is show what happens when you pump litres of synthol into yourself using needles that you've dropped on the floor and covered with all sorts of sh1te.


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## tylerx (Feb 20, 2008)

I am thankful that we have forums such as these where we can learn so much from each other and each other's experience. I educated myself for seven years

alongside 11 years of solid training before I begun my first course.

Yes although I wanted to make extraordinary gains the most important things was keeping it safe and sustainable. I learnt a lot about my body and will be able to

adjust my next cycle to suit that which works best for me. My aim in all of this is to use steroids to help me reach the next level or to boost the hard work and

pin point diet I maintain in creating my work of art.

Although there are certain generalisations which can be made, it appears that steroids effect us all diffidently but there are universal principles as shared by some

of the veterans which can be applied in making their use safe and effective.


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## andyfrance001 (Jan 11, 2011)

15 years doing steroids and when i came off I was three years sterile! No sperm count at all, so trying for children was heartbreaking for me and my new wife, we have been trying now for five years. Sperm count has come back a little to 15-20 million but we have to go down the IVF route. Steroids did this to me so anyone getting into bodybuilding and want to try a bit of gear think long and hard about your future when you want to start a family!!!!


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## God (Sep 3, 2009)

andyfrance001 said:


> 15 years doing steroids and when i came off I was three years sterile! No sperm count at all, so trying for children was heartbreaking for me and my new wife, we have been trying now for five years. Sperm count has come back a little to 15-20 million but we have to go down the IVF route. Steroids did this to me so anyone getting into bodybuilding and want to try a bit of gear think long and hard about your future when you want to start a family!!!!


Would you mind sharing your cycle history? Would be interesting. All the best with having a child.


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## doylejlw (Feb 14, 2010)

andyfrance001 said:


> 15 years doing steroids and when i came off I was three years sterile! No sperm count at all, so trying for children was heartbreaking for me and my new wife, we have been trying now for five years. Sperm count has come back a little to 15-20 million but we have to go down the IVF route. Steroids did this to me so anyone getting into bodybuilding and want to try a bit of gear think long and hard about your future when you want to start a family!!!!


Do you mean you was on for 15 years without a break?


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

doylejlw said:


> Do you mean you was on for 15 years without a break?


surely not!?


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## doylejlw (Feb 14, 2010)

scouse_jay said:


> surely not!?


Thats what i was thinking. But surely in that time you would get checked to see how thing are.


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

That's the way I read it too.

Bit silly to be blaming steroids if he's been on for 15 years straight.

We could be getting the wrong end of the stick so i'll hold back a bit.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

yep best to wait and find out, but 15 years straight is madness!


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## andyfrance001 (Jan 11, 2011)

No mate, get real correct cycles and pct for 15 years, so used steroids for 15 years and past 5 years natural bodybuilding


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## andyfrance001 (Jan 11, 2011)

What a lot of bodybuilders used to inject 20 years ago was imported from USA and had a bid stamp on it," for animal use onl" It was 100% steroids for use in bulking up beef cattle! I did eight to ten week on and six week off, wish i knew what i do now about gear. Main problem was not letting the steroid come out of the body not enough time off it. When i eventually came off gear for good I was still testing positive for high testorone levels at the fertility clinic ten months after i last used. Of course steroid use does not effect everyone in this way, a good friend of mine a former Mr Universe concieved two children whilst on a big steroid cycle!! The young guys coming into the bodybuilding circle just need to be aware of the risks involved, too many times you get guys in their first few weeks of training asking about steroid cycles and I always tell them, train hard, get your diet right, plently of rest and sleep and then come back in a couple of years and maybe look at steroids if thats what you think you need. Are you going on gear to compete or just to look good at weekends round town for the ladies?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, for vet use only was to get around the liability issue of companies selling gear at lets say Mexico.

Vet stuff was purchased online and that door has closed.

Vet gear is no diffrent than other gear with perhaps the exception of EQ.

Other than that I bought a bunch of exotic stuff from vet places.

Longer you stay on, longer the recovery.

Your situation is nothing new, too bad you were not around for some help with fertility and the drugs that would aid you in having a child.

Good luck.


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

I apologise. Didn't understand your first post.

I do agree with you though. The lack of research done before using gear is frightening to be honest.

Hope everything works out in the future.

Good luck.


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## Little_Jay (Feb 6, 2006)

hope your ok aswell mate, thats what scares me not being able to have kids one day!


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## andyfrance001 (Jan 11, 2011)

Well great news after trying for five years! The wife is 12 weeks pregnant!!!! Over the moon its been long enough trying.


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

you sure you werent feeding her the pill on the sly so you could keep "practicing"...  congrats mate, now the real pain begins...


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

andyfrance001 said:


> Well great news after trying for five years! The wife is 12 weeks pregnant!!!! Over the moon its been long enough trying.


Congrats mate! thats great news.

Saw my endo a few weeks back and he stated that the majority of steroid effects reverse upon ceasing the drugs. He said that it was unlikely for there to be any long term damage. Of course this isnt a free licence to take silly doses year round though peeps.

He did say however, that the ability to produce quality sperm may be permanently affected, making it more difficult or even impossible to father children, so please consider your future when taking AAS.

SD


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## Merouria (Sep 16, 2007)

andyfrance001 said:


> Well great news after trying for five years! The wife is 12 weeks pregnant!!!! Over the moon its been long enough trying.


Congrats mate pleased for you, nothing will prepare you for seeing your child for the first time! My lad is now 7 months old <------------------- in my avi


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## grantinerfe1436114737 (Oct 29, 2010)

andyfrance001 said:


> Well great news after trying for five years! The wife is 12 weeks pregnant!!!! Over the moon its been long enough trying.


congratulations mate. hope everything goes well 

ps: now you can get yourself on the gear again


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## andyfrance001 (Jan 11, 2011)

Cheers lads, yes enjoying the smiling face of the lady with a little bump just beginning to show


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

SD said:


> Congrats mate! thats great news.
> 
> Saw my endo a few weeks back and he stated that the majority of steroid effects reverse upon ceasing the drugs. He said that it was unlikely for there to be any long term damage. Of course this isnt a free licence to take silly doses year round though peeps.
> 
> ...


I wish mate... I wish... and woo hoo we can use... oh wait not a licence... ok... spoil sport...


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## A.J. (Sep 14, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> Thought I'd jump in and revive comments on this great sticky, as I have strong feelings about it lately. I'm 6 weeks into my first cycle, and I've never been healthier, had a better diet, and trained as well. The article in this sticky is awesome. Certainly gear can be abused, but I think the government doesn't want the world to know that a moderate dose of aas twice a year, maybe three, along with a solid PCT, probably turns you into something short of a super human.
> 
> If you deal with the negative sides, aas do so so many other wonderful, positive things to your body. My mother is a physician, my father is a pharmacist (both in their 60s) and they always joke about how they should go on anabolic/androgenic steroids because of all the health benefits they know of, and that if done correctly, they have little negative side effects! Also, when you factor in being dedicated to a clean diet, minimal to no alcohol, no smoking, no drug use (besides gear, lol), tons of water, good supplements...its a no brainer. AA steroids, and if you adopt the proper lifestyle to make use of their full benefit, make you healthier, fitter, and better off. Of course, if you abuse it, for years and years...different story...but, really, anything that is beneficial for us, usually also has the potential to be detrimental if abused. And having sources like UK Muscle to direct safe aas use have been a Godsend in this respect! The only long term effects I predict from my mild to moderate, and well planned out aas use, will be a longer and happier life...I'm a fairly smart guy in my 30s, with a background in science, and I don't think that is delusional thinking...


Well said


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## p91swat (Apr 11, 2011)

what were you on that it stripped your calcium? nd how do you know it stripped your calcium, a in what kind of symptoms. I think it might have been more because of the high protein diet.


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## p91swat (Apr 11, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



round 2 said:


> just to add my bit they stripped my teeth of some calcium.but i was 14-15


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## ROIDHEAD (Sep 25, 2011)

Take the word, Oxymetholone. Read about this steroid on bodybuilding forums/internet and you can almost sense the fear in the words (probably a good thing). Compare this to what is written about Oxymetholone in clinical trials on patients and you wouldn't think we were all talking about the same drug.

Just to add, the dosage given to patients is the same as what would be taken by the 'average athlete'.


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## BigAggs (Apr 9, 2011)

:thumb:


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

Can i just say everyone that contributed to this thread are second to none.A fantastic debate and i think it just shows why this forum is the most informative and best on the net today...

Use dont abuse and be like me and do your pct....

ps,,thats great news to about the pregnancy congrats.


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## sunn (Apr 11, 2011)

Just finished reaing this great to see the negatives as well as the possitives!


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