# Question on IGF



## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

i know this may sound reali stupid, but can some one please expalin 2 me what IGF is and its effects and how its taken ? iv seen it on this board a few times and are just curious


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## LEWIS (Oct 28, 2005)

its taken through a slin pin, it is taken for a maximum of 50 days daily, it can enhance the site of insurtion, it creates more muscle fibres which is different from steroids as they increase the size of them.


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## armyman1188 (Nov 8, 2006)

hey look at this site i have linked. it should do u some good on what igf is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGF-1


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

this seems like quite expensive stuff, has neone on here done it and what did there cycle consist of ?? and what were the gains like ??


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## LEWIS (Oct 28, 2005)

first go this monday - you have to use it along side anabolics though mate.

look up IGF in the search engine pscarb and hacksii have said loads on it mate


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

I have used it... awesome when used with insulin inbetween cycles but not for the novice u really need to know your body and you need to know drugs well to be using this imo


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

i recently used it during PCT and when i was fasting! was brilliant! got much leaner and kept decent muscle!


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

how cums you r using it for pct and inbetween cycles, dont u stack it with test then ??


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Reason i used it during PCT is coz 1. it helps keeps gains from previous cycle while getting rid of some BF, and helps to restore natty test levels, and the fact i was in PCT and about to fast was a good reason to


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Craig660 said:


> how cums you r using it for pct and inbetween cycles, dont u stack it with test then ??


i have used it with test and in PCT

i found i benefitted more from the extra mass it allows me to keep in pct


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Craig do a search on the forum and all of your questions will be answered...


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

I think more people need to be made aware of the search option! If you're questioning what IGF is then I'd stay clear. As Baz said you need to know your body! Research Research Research then research a little more!


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

Craig660 said:


> i know this may sound reali stupid, but can some one please expalin 2 me what IGF is and its effects and how its taken ? iv seen it on this board a few times and are just curious


i didnt say i was gonna do it, i said i was just curious


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nolva will lower IGF-1 in the body.

So taking it during PCT is not a bad idea.

I actually think it helps me recover.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I think until there has been documented medical research, this stuff should be used with caution. I used it earlier this year, stopped it in early august. I did'nt use it with insulin or GH as I wanted to see if it would work as a 'stand alone'.

Even now, since I stopped using it in August, I keep getting hypoglycaemic episodes very similar to the ones James was getting after he used pro recover. If I have pro recover (as I think everyone ought to post workout) & leave it longer than about 40 mins before I eat a proper meal, I will experience a rapid crash in blood sugar levels, cold sweats, vision disturbance etc. It may not be the IGF-1 use that has caused it, but until I have been checked out properly I won't know for sure. A friend at the gym I use in manchester has had a similar problem that still persists 12 months after usage. My worry is that in some people (myself included) it could induce the onset of diabetes if you are at a high risk in the first place due to hereditory prediposition.

Handle with care. Having said that, the results were impressive. I came down in eight weeks from 17 stone to just over 13 to do the colchester wabba & gravesend shows with james (yes, I was that far out at the beginning!). I was not at my best, but the progress made in 8 weeks was phenominal.


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## Timmy Smooth (Nov 24, 2004)

What dose were you running, Ninepack?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nine Pack said:


> I think until there has been documented medical research, this stuff should be used with caution. I used it earlier this year, stopped it in early august. I did'nt use it with insulin or GH as I wanted to see if it would work as a 'stand alone'.
> 
> Even now, since I stopped using it in August, I keep getting hypoglycaemic episodes very similar to the ones James was getting after he used pro recover. If I have pro recover (as I think everyone ought to post workout) & leave it longer than about 40 mins before I eat a proper meal, I will experience a rapid crash in blood sugar levels, cold sweats, vision disturbance etc. It may not be the IGF-1 use that has caused it, but until I have been checked out properly I won't know for sure. A friend at the gym I use in manchester has had a similar problem that still persists 12 months after usage. My worry is that in some people (myself included) it could induce the onset of diabetes if you are at a high risk in the first place due to hereditory prediposition.
> 
> Handle with care. Having said that, the results were impressive. I came down in eight weeks from 17 stone to just over 13 to do the colchester wabba & gravesend shows with james (yes, I was that far out at the beginning!). I was not at my best, but the progress made in 8 weeks was phenominal.


I have not experianced this at all.

I have ran probably 8mg in total of this stuff over the last year and a half and never once noticed any hypo.

But then again, my diet is lower in carbs and higher in fats than probably 90% of everyone on this board if not 100%

I have never used exogenous insulin, I do eat every 2 hours or so, and take 12 fish oils a day to help stay insulin sensitive or be more insulin sensitive.

I have my take on this but could be wrong.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Timmy,

I was sticking to the recomended 50mcg a day protocol. At first I used it sub cu, but then was advised to use i.m. I was using it whilst dieting though if that's part of the problem. The odd thing is that I had no hypos at all when using it & on restricted carbs. It only came on after I cranked the carbs back up after the shows.

Scott,

In time, if we all share our experiences, we will have more info to go on so my experience is just a tiny piece of the puzzle. If there seems to be a consistent theme cropping up like mine, then maybe there's an issue. I suspect though, that I may just be in a high risk group from a hereditory point of view and that the IGF-1 may have simply brought on the inevitable. I'll be consulting my sister (a G.P) and my own quack very soon & will let people know the results.

with my family history of heart attacks, strokes, angina & pretty much everything else it's a wonder I'm alive today at the ripe old age of 37! It's part of the reason I live the lifestyle I do now. I eat super clean all year round, do not drink at all, have never smoked (& never will), use no recreational drugs & get plenty of sleep. What a geek.

I also take on board way more fats than most, around 120g a day at the moment. I use Udo's oil, flax seeds which I grind up freshly & put into my porridge, Pro Peptide & MR, walnuts (& walnut oil), Ev Olive oil, fresh salmon. I find the more clean fats I have, the more energy I have & stay leaner.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, I can think of a few reason's guys go hypo that workout.

For one you guys have probably 25% more muscle (or more) than most people and need to keep feeding that muscle. Your requirement is higher than mose for fuel.

One reason I think this is happening is because your body is used to using carbohydrates for fuel, or not just carbs but has a prefrence for them.

Strenous exercise probably ups the requirement as well.

I also think you guys might be a little insulin resistant too.

The mineral chromium helps to regulate blood sugars, a buddy of mine swore by it.

I have used it but didnt notice much but that might be me.

Maybe we should start a poll and ask the question "Does anyone go hypo using IGF-1?"

Paul, are you using insulin at the same time (or day) as the IGF-1?

I was taking between 80mcg and even 100mcg before on an empty stomach before work in the morning (cant jab after workouts) and never noticed going hypo. Not saying it could not happen, but for me I didnt notice it.

I did notice some freak show vascularity and massive pumps, almost painfull actually.

I have heard dude's using less slin when using IGF-1, this kind of makes sense to me.

On the low carb days you were ok, adding carbs can raise blood sugars, maybe insulin spiked and left you with low blood sugars.

Do you use simple sugars PWO shake?

Sorry for all the questions, I ask alot of questions, it is just for my own head and nothing else.

Thanks Paul....


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Scott,

I was'nt using insulin with the IGF as I was dieting so it would have been both counterproductive & dangerous.

At the time I was'nt cycling my carbs at all, so there were no low & high days. I was keeping them constant at about 180-200g a day, & increasing my cardio as & when required to keep fat loss going.

I was using Pro recover after workouts which is 48g simple carbs & 24g hydrolysed whey. All other meals were slow carbs from sweet potatoes, oats & brown rice. Protein was chicken, salmon, eggs & Pro Peptide so nothing rapidly absorbed except PWO.

I use CNP's Pro Vital which has chromium in it but probably not at a level I need. I have considered this in the past but never actually tried it on it's own as I believe in keeping things simple. I don't want to be taking a myriad of supplements all at once.

I'm compiling data on my blood sugar but there seems to be no predictable pattern, apart from PWO if I have my pro recover & don't eat a good meal afterwards within 45 mins or so. This will see a dramatic crash in blood sugar (below 3 mmol) leaving me in quite a state if left unattended. As I am so meticulous with my meals all year round this is rarely a problem, unless I hit traffic on my way home from the gym. I'll carry a carb drink with me from now on so I have all the bases covered. Think it's a good idea to have as many people as poss share thier experiences on IGF, not just when using it, but long term as like I say, I had no problems when on it, but clearly something is amiss some months later.


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

I think my problem stemmed from using the pro recover and not the igf1. It is definately best used when there is a good flow of cals and esp carbs flowing into the body that is why I wouldn't necessarily use it while dieting.

Part of the reason IGF1 works so well in the mass gaining phase is that it causes greater uptake of protein and carbohydrate and enables the body to store more glycogen (one of the reasons people experience great pumps). This is also a time when carbohydrates are freely available and IMO when gains from IGF are at there best.

I have just started using some IGF in the last 4 days and I am taking just 50mcgs ED prior to meal 1 (which is also my largest carb meal of the day). It really is difficult to assess whether the pumps are due to the IGF or just due to the influx of carbs after my dieting phase, however I have been experiencing pumps greater than ever witnessed before even with ridiculously light weights (legs today for example). The vascularity was also insane.

I will be using for 40 days so I will have a clearer picture of whats what in the next few weeks after my body has normalised.

I am trying to stay at or around 14st in the off season this time around but stay in fairly good nick and with the assistance of IGF it will be interesting to see how this product works on me once my body is androgen and anabolic free.

One thing I do notice is the feeling of hunger. I used Omega last time and only really felt its effect at 100mcgs a day. This time round I have sourced some Chinese IGF which was in the form of lithosised powder. It will be interesting to see how I get on and how the 2 compare esp since I am using only half the dose of before.

My plan is now to use IGF in the off season without anabolics for at least 6 months (cycled) with Gh to give my body a good rest from AAS useage. This along with the new training split and also the spot on nutrition should go some way in keeping the gains I have aquired in the dieting phase (yes I have actually gained muscle whilst dieting).

I will keep everybody updated with how things are progressing over the next 40 days and it will be esp interesting to see how its use in pct works as the test prop I am using post contest will be finished in around 2 weeks time.

James


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

This is a very good thread.

I love all the insight and brainstorming.

This will be interesting to follow.

I have two bottles left and am waiting for when I start my PCT in 1 week, I am going to shoot for 50 days as my PCT is 45 days long (I know this sounds long to most of you but there is defo a method do my madness).

I will take this time to see if I notice anything out of the ordinary.

I am no guru by any means, but I myself (and am alone here) dont like the idea of simple sugars in the diet or even PWO shake.

You are already insulin sensitive after a workout and just about any carb would work well here.

Great article on PWO myth somewhere on this board, I think winger posted it.

What gets me is how fast some guys crash, I get angry before I crash, so I know id better eat something fast.

Is it because you guys are so focused and are using your will power to over-ride the symptoms of hypoglycemia?

Just a thought.

I love this thread and the insight. Have a couple of the best dudes to draw information from on this issue of IGF.

There is some debate on the half life of IGF-1LR3 and some feel it is 12 hours and some 32 hours.

Not sure really but I notice the vascularity all day and pumps are fantasitc even when I am on low carb.

I did find it harder to lose weight when dieting, I only went by the scale so that might not be the best way to track fat loss.

Thanks mates for the input.

Did any of you guys notice stiffer joints on IGF-1?


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Scott,

The body will absorb any carb quickly PWO, but the longer it takes the body to break it down into simple sugars, then the more you run the risk of cannibalising existing tissue to regain blood glucose. As the body sees blood glucose as survival priority No 1, it will happily munch away at our hard earned muscle to do it. I think it's better to give the body what it needs in it's most readily absorbed form right away at this time.

I know the degree of muscle it will affect is probably miniscule, and the guys in the 70's & 80's did'nt have PWO carb/protein formulas, but if we have products available I'll make use of them. It's almost like deliberately creating an artificial environment for our bodies. The whole bodybuilding lifestyle is an artificial one anyway. Nowhere in nature would we eat so well so often.

If there was ever a worldwide famine, bodybuilders would be the first to drop & leave large meals for everyone else!

Any particular reason for the exclusion of simple sugars at ANY time? I will only have them PWO or if having an occasional treat.

Did'nt get stiff joints on IGF, but I do a little on GH. Or maybe I'm just getting old & creaky.

My blood glucose this morning upon waking was 4.7mmol, and an hour after meal 1 it dipped to 3.2. Barely had the manual dexterity to do the test I was shaking so bad. Not good...................


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Paul, do you think if you added a fiber in there during your morning meal that you could minimise the crash?

I never use simple sugars if I can help it.

I know that insulin is very anabolic or PWO anti-catabolic. But on the same token here GH production stops in the presence of insulin.

So, on one hand you get the benefits of anabolism and anti-catabolism but lose the benefits of fat burning with GH.

Also in the presence of whey protein with a carb it raises the GI of that.

With the absence of fat, there is a spike and I feel enough without adding the simple sugar in that meal.

Also, as I get older I worry about type II diabetes. I know that the farther you go away form insulin sensitivity, the closer you come to the body using too much insulin to do the job. Insulin in the presence of AA is not a good thing.

I pound about 12 fish oils a day (not PWO) to help me become more insulin sensitive and try to avoid all sugars (well except this last Thanks Giving)

I do see a very strong arguement for simple sugars PWO, but for me GH and insulin sensitivity would rule over the usage of simple sugars.

When I eat fast carbs like bread I crave them terribly.

Almost all my carbs come from fruits and vegetables.

Only on a re-feed day do I consume rice or bread (pizza).

I have to diet all the time now, probably due to age (47).

Thanks for the responce Paul.


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## supercell (Aug 23, 2005)

You say your carbs come from fruit and veg in the main. What fruits are they Scott, they are infact nature's highest glycemic foods although admitedly some fruit is lower GI than others.

Vitargo is the way forward for me PWO now or 'waxy maize starch' both these exhibit the same properties as simple sugars without all the pitfalls plus they empty the gut 70% quicker than maltodextrin and fructose/sucrose/glucose and store up to 80% more glycogen than those simple sugars. To me there is no comparison and more importantly NO crash 30 mins later.

My blood sugar for the past month has been 5.2 on rising and has remained fairly steady through the day but then again I do feed my body every 2.5 hours which when IGF is being administered, is an important factor in getting the most out of it.

James


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

James, with the exception of my beer (I know I dont need it), I eat apples, oranges and tomato's, radishes, broccoli, green beens and the like.

The apples I get are granny Smith apples and those are the lowest in the GI of any apples which are already low in the GI.

I do nibble on some carots but all the fruits and vegetables are not cooked except for the green beans and broccoli.

I do know that fructose goes to the liver first to be converted to glucose and this slows down absorption but also refills liver glycogen stores and is not that productive at muscle glycogen stores but then again, I have this thing about low GI.

With the exception of some sugar in my coffee creamer I eat zero simple sugars.

I have to monitor my weight carefully as it seems the older I get the easier it is to gain weight.

I know my beer drinking has something to do with this equation but this is my unwind time and I wont give that up. I might lower the consumption but I wont stop that one.

I will never stop going to the gym either

I have been lifting for 28 years and I wont stop any time soon.

I am going to start my IGF-1 in about 6 days, so I will let ya know if there is any dip in blood sugars, I know my body very well so this wont be hard for me.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I think I have all the bases covered with the fibre. I get tons of green beans, broccoli etc with each meal. I don't count them as a carb though as they're fibrous & just passing through without being absorbed.

Scott,

It sounds like apart from fructose, you are'nt getting enough starchy carbs & this is why you crave them so much. I think you'd benefit from at least an oatmeal breakfast & supper to regulate blood sugar & keep glycogen stores topped up. I have a lot of clients who were so anti carb & struggled to lose fat after a while. The body will eventually put the brakes on fat loss & go into survival mode if it is'nt given the carbs. Not only that, the carbs will free up protein to be used for repair & adaptive growth instead of having to use it to replace the defecit in dietary carbs. Once it detects a regular intake, it will allow the body to utilise fat stores when conditions require it. My clients are aprehensive at first, but then quickly see fat starting to come off again, and many see improved sleep patterns too.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nine Pack said:


> I think I have all the bases covered with the fibre. I get tons of green beans, broccoli etc with each meal. I don't count them as a carb though as they're fibrous & just passing through without being absorbed.
> 
> Scott,
> 
> It sounds like apart from fructose, you are'nt getting enough starchy carbs & this is why you crave them so much. I think you'd benefit from at least an oatmeal breakfast & supper to regulate blood sugar & keep glycogen stores topped up. I have a lot of clients who were so anti carb & struggled to lose fat after a while. The body will eventually put the brakes on fat loss & go into survival mode if it is'nt given the carbs. Not only that, the carbs will free up protein to be used for repair & adaptive growth instead of having to use it to replace the defecit in dietary carbs. Once it detects a regular intake, it will allow the body to utilise fat stores when conditions require it. My clients are aprehensive at first, but then quickly see fat starting to come off again, and many see improved sleep patterns too.


That makes sense, for a number of reasons. I do hear the thyroid shuts down when you go easy on the carbs.

I remember on a keto diet once fat loss was really nice for about 6-8 weeks then it stopped dead, I added in some carbs (fruits and vegetables) and fat loss started again.

I have a rice cooker and can cook a week's worth of rice up in one time.

I actually did have some rice last night with my meat, It tasted soooo good too.

I would be willing to bet my muscle glycogen stores are not topped off or even close to being topped off.

But you are right Paul, I am carb phobic, more than most people.

I will do as you suggested and keep you informed.

Thanks


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## frazer (Dec 5, 2006)

hi im frazer id like rto know moor about igf

is it good for fat loss

or am i better getting GH


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Frazer i would advise you to use the search function on the board or look through this section of the board there are plenty of articles on the use of IGF all it takes is for you to do some searching....

Is it good for fat loss - compared to what??

for us to answer if IGF-1 is better than GH for you we will need you to give us your stats, diet and previous cycles...


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Frazer,

Paul's right, it won't be the magic elixir some claim it to be unless the diet, training, cardio & other stuff used is pitched right. Do some reading before you use any thing new so you can make an informed decision based on your own findings.

I did lose fat whilst using it, but I am known for being one of the strictest dieters around & do heaps of cardio so in my case I saw great results. When I came off it in august, I had intended not to do any more shows but then decided I had'nt shown myself at my peak so carried on dieting to do the leeds qualifier in September. I started to use Ansomone & saw a marked improvement in condition within a week. Again, it may have happened anyway but this was how I went on.

What we are saying here is, in essence, there's no 'one size fits all'. Do some research, it's fascinating, and knowledge is power.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

This is a really good discussion

I've only used IGF for mass gaining as I've only used it this past year. I also only use it Pre workout as I've found this the best for overall results compared to an every day protocol.

Also with the ED jabs I found I had to cycle off a lot sooner but with the Pre workout jabs I could feel the pumps in my 7th week still.

Will be interesting to see how I fair with it pre contest, I've never had any hypos with IGF and I do use Pro Recover PWO. However if I don't eat after the PWO shake (1 hour later) I do get tired but this is something I've always had as I am quite carb sensitive.


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## mikai (Dec 10, 2006)

Ok so are we saying that IGF does or could give you a hypo...! I thought that IGF was taken pre work out..?

Also if i was doing 4iu's of insulin Post work out how much IGF would you want to use 10mcg or 25mcg as insulin raises the level of IGF anyway..?

Also i was told that IGF is only good for 3 days after constution that it degrades is that correct..?

If this is the case then surely this could really be hazardous..!

Im new to IGF and have been looking into it but im fuzzy on a few things do you inject on site where you want growth or just IM in the normal sites..?

I think the reports of after effects is worrying tho how many other people have had any similar problems..?

I read a artical on a retro virus that is injected into the muscle and the virus basicly stays in the skelital muscle and makes IGF it has been tested on lab rats and seems to work very well as it causes constant IGF production in the muscle throughout the life of the rat and seemed to only effect the muscle the virus was injected into. kinda works a little like mitocondra which is basicly a organisum that produces ATP that we use for energy.

Quite interesting applications with this virus it would mean a constant IGF supply for life with just one jab per muscle...!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

With Acetic Acid, it is very hearty, moreso than HGH.

Yes, inject PWO into the muscle worked.

Yes, less insulin would be used with IGF-1

I do first thing in the morning as I cant do PWO.

Good stuff, I do like it.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Mikai,

I did'nt experience any problems at all when actually using IGF-1. My problems came several months after use, and I'm still unclear whether or not it's the IGF that is the cause but it's a strong candidate.

I was using it I.M but not into the muscle worked (unless it was back day cos it all went in them). I would be reluctant to use it again though as from what I can tell, most of the results appear to be transient anyway.

It's going to be ages before any conclusive data is compiled on it's use, and even then it'll be for it's use as a medical drug. These things were never developed to be used by otherwise healthy adults, and as studies into thier use by healthy individuals would be considered unethical, we are left to experiment & discuss amongst ourselves.

Most drugs that find thier way onto the black market don't get there by accident anyway. The drug companies know they would never get approval for trials on healthy people so some 'leaks' out, & the drug companies just keep checking the obituaries, and forums like this one. Hi guys if you're reading this! Still not dead, but the day ain't over yet!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

mikai said:


> Ok so are we saying that IGF does or could give you a hypo...! I thought that IGF was taken pre work out..? ...!


I have only come across one person who has mild hypo attacks whilst on IGF-1LR3, i take my IGF-1LR3 pre-workout as it is not always feasible to take it post workout and the half life of IGF-1LR3 allows you to do so.



mikai said:


> Also if i was doing 4iu's of insulin Post work out how much IGF would you want to use 10mcg or 25mcg as insulin raises the level of IGF anyway..?...!


you will need to set your amount of IGF-1LR3 and reduce then raise your levels of Insulin not the other way round make sure you start your insulin low though.



mikai said:


> Also i was told that IGF is only good for 3 days after constution that it degrades is that correct..?
> 
> If this is the case then surely this could really be hazardous..!...!


No if mixed in either AA or BA solution then it is good for 2yrs most brands come in one of these two solutions..



mikai said:


> Im new to IGF and have been looking into it but im fuzzy on a few things do you inject on site where you want growth or just IM in the normal sites..?...!


There is theory that IGF-1LR3 promotes site growth in the muscle you jab but after using IGF-1LR3 for 18months i can say that it is not that specific now i jab it either IM or Sub q and the effects and results are the same.



mikai said:


> I think the reports of after effects is worrying tho how many other people have had any similar problems..?...!


What after effects are your referring to??



mikai said:


> I read a artical on a retro virus that is injected into the muscle and the virus basicly stays in the skelital muscle and makes IGF it has been tested on lab rats and seems to work very well as it causes constant IGF production in the muscle throughout the life of the rat and seemed to only effect the muscle the virus was injected into. kinda works a little like mitocondra which is basicly a organisum that produces ATP that we use for energy....!


great for Rats but never heard of this in humans...



mikai said:


> Quite interesting applications with this virus it would mean a constant IGF supply for life with just one jab per muscle...!


seriously do you really think this is possible seriously....


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## mikai (Dec 10, 2006)

PSCARB

Thanks for the answers im going to post a thread on my next cycle if you could give me some help it would be great and here is the reaserch that i was on about it IS POSSIBLE but has only been tested on rats here is the extract. However i think i would put myself forward for human testing..! constant IGF all year round for free HELL YES..!

*Background* This study transferred a recombinant gene encoding human insulin like growth factor-1 (hIGF-1) into modified primary skeletal myoblasts with a retroviral vector (pLgXSN ) and determined whether the hIGF-1 promoted growth of skeletal muscle in rat.

*Methods* hIGF-1cDNA was amplified in vitro from normal human liver cells by using RT-PCR and cloned into plasmid vector pLgXSN. The recombinant vector pLghIGF-1SN and control vector pLgGFPSN were transfected into packaging cell PT67 and G418 was used to select positive colony. Myoblasts were infected with a high titre viral supernatant and transduction efficiency was evaluated as GFP expression. The expression of hIGF-1 mRNA in myoblasts was investigated by immunocytochemistry and RT-PCR. MTT assays detected the growth of myoblasts in vitro. Myoblasts transduced with pLghIGF-1SN were injected into hind limb muscles of 10-12 week male SD rats. Formed tissues were harvested 4 weeks later. Myocyte diameter, mean weight of hind limb and body were measured to evaluate the skeletal muscle growth.

*Results* Recombinant retroviral plasmid vector pLghIGF-1SN was constructed successfully. The titre of the packaged recombinant retrovirus was 1×106 cfu/ml. The transfection rate of PT67 cells reached 100% after G418 screening. hIGF-1 expression was positive in myoblast-IGF-1. The proliferation rate of myoblast-IGF-1 in vitro was higher than GFP-myoblast or myoblast (P< 0.05). The mean weights of hind limb and body of rats injected myoblast-IGF-1 were higher than those of the rats injected with myoblast-GFP or myoblast (P< 0.05). Myocyte diameter had a significant increase in IGF-1 group compared to GFP group and myoblast group (P< 0.05).

*Conclusions* The transfection of the human IGF-1 gene mediated by a retroviral vector can promote the growth of skeletal muscle in rats. Genetically modified primary skeletal myoblasts provide a possibly effective approach to treat some skeletal muscle diseases.



Chinese Medical Journal 2006;119(23):1991-1998
​
This study was supported by : National Natural Science Foundation of China(No.30470457)

I would love someone to make this or give me some it being reasearched at the moment but as to getting hold of some I dunno..! the only thing is it could possibly affect the heart if the virus became transiate and moved about..! then there could be loads of problems however i think this study found no heart defects or enlargment of the rats hearts as fas as i can find out..!


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## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

I used to take my IGF PRE-Workout along with 100g Carbs.

Injected it into the muscle i was going to work, and this gave me the best pumps of my life and made some good gains from it.

Used to then take Insuling POST-Workout and HGH before bed.


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## mikai (Dec 10, 2006)

Pscarb said:


> What after effects are your referring to??


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)




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## mikai (Dec 10, 2006)

I do have a diabetic grandfather but he controls his sugar by diet i have used insulin once and gained really well and will be using it for my next cycle i do talk regular to my consultant about everything and there is alot the medical profession does not know about AS my leg would no way be healed as fast as it did if i did not do some d'bol 6 months ago..!

As with any new compound it may just be a one off but being diabetic is not something i want however i do know using insulin can bring it on..! Im just not sure about IGF


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## pitbull1436114521 (Dec 19, 2006)

I run it PWO 40-80mcgs followed by insulin at 12iu's..

Never had any issues with hypo on IGF on its own.

But with adding insulin i must keep an eye on my blood sugar levels.

PB


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## mikai (Dec 10, 2006)

Cool i think im going to put this on a back burner for the moment and save and research it alot more and do it with a bit of insulin & small amount of gear see what kind of results you could expect with just IGF slin and 1 more compound at a low dose..!


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