# Losing (lots of) fat, and building the muscle. Newbie help needed ;)



## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Hey guys, I just joined and recently I've gotten back into the gym after a year of... not.

*About Me*

I'm 5" 10, 5" 11 (not quite sure on that one) 16st (and have been for the past 5/6 years, barely ever shifting either way) and to be honest, I'm really... quite chub lol! according to my mum's fat measuring scales thingies, i'm 46.3% (fat? I guess?) which strikes me as extremely high... and not just a little bit worrying...

Anyway I'm quite heavily built as it is (always have been) and I think the majority of the tub is concentrated on my ample (emphasis on ample) stomach, back and legs - I have HUMONGOUS legs.

As for eating habits, well student life really has taken its toll on my body and although i did frequent the gym some 2/3 times a week during uni (for 2 years, I stopped last year up till around now, always weight lifting rarely cardio) I was frequently eating extremely unhealthily and a lot of fast food and take aways. Right now I'm at home so I'm overfed by my parents too heh... :tongue1:

*My Goals*

My goals are basically what I guess most people come on these forums for; to lose the fat and build the muscle - I'm really sick of feeling self conscious about the gut and the dreaded half moobs (not quite man boobs but definitely too much to show any pec muscles underneath) and would love to walk through town topless and turn heads (although this would just be a fringe benefit haha!).

I also want to build up a certain level of fitness and whilst I don't plan on running any marathons, it would be nice to have a nice 20 minute run through the park without collapsing and struggling to breathe after the first 3 minutes.

Long term goals would include low body fat and a healthy lean and muscly body. I don't want to build it to like MASS proportions (impossible without the work anyway I know) but would like just a good looking body that I can be happy with - and of course a certain level of fitness that would enable me to walk 30 minutes without sweating as I do now (sometimes quite profusely)

I just feel it's time I took control of my health and my life and hope that I can get the help that I need in achieving that here 

*The Problems*

My main issues come from diet - whilst I do try and eat healthily (student life aside) it's often hard to know what to eat, when to eat it and why I'm eating it. For example at the moment I'm doing regular weightlifting sessions mixed with cardio sessions. I know that when you want to lose fat you eat less, but if you want muscles you eat more protein - the end result is that I end up eating a lot anyway (less carbs, more protein but more nonetheless) so diet and knowing what when and why is a serious issue for me. I'm not sure if it's true but I was told 75% of the process is diet, the other 25% is the gym. Also I eat a lot of fruit and veg (I think too much actually! Probably contributing to the problem as well!)

I am also getting some protein shake and before I found this place, just planned to have a protein shake in the morning along with some weetabix, go gym , do cardio then weights (or weights then cardio... or single activity days or weights OR cardio) then have another protein shake then eat as normal. I'm not so sure on that now, having read a few of the things around here.

Cardio at the moment consists of 30-40 minutes on the X-Trainer as this is the only machine I can use which causes my heart to beat fast (too fast at times... worrying!!) but allow me to still breathe relatively normally. It confuses me that my heart rate is so high on it sometimes (160-180!!) whereas when I see fit people use it next to me their heart rate doesn't go above 80!? Are they just that fit? Anyway my stamina is extremely poor it would seem and I realise this is just something I need to work at - but how?

Weights is something I'm not too bad at; I do chest and back days, legs days, arms and shoulder days. The problem, as I said before, is I don't know whether I should eat more or less even after weight sessions.

This is, however, hampered by the fact that, for example, even though I can do bench presses quite easily and have been building that up slowly (60KG atm, still going up), everything else feels like I'm stuck in a rut so to speak. Perhaps because of the weight or perhaps I've not quite got the mentality to push through my boundaries yet - but yeah doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere really.

So to summarise I think the main issues I have are diet and not really knowing what I should be doing at the gym; should I just do all cardio to lose the fat first then start back on the weights or continue to do both? - main things I need help with.

*Anything else?*

Well after that huge long wall of text, I hope you're not all too bored yet... I just wanna be able to get help from you guys and start on the road to good health and looking good. I hope my post wasn't too confusing, I realise I was allll over the place here.

Thanks in advance guys!


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

i think you should concentrate on your diet, coz its no good training and shoveling rubbish into you, good protein good carbs good fats.

with your training I would be doing high reps 15-20 per set

and cardio for 15-30 minutes at the end of your gym session, this is to get you into being able, and get to a base that then you can start to progress through progressive weight training, were your body is gaining muscle while loosing fat

don't train for more than one hour at the moment but as you start to progress you can tweak your training up with it

I would do a little research on cardio you don't want your heart rate that high if there are trainers in your gym ask there advice on this suject.


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

Ps what type of fat percentage scales has your mum got because most are notoriously inaccurate.


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Ah I did wonder if my heart rate should be that high... And they're just something she picked up out of an Argos catalogue haha!

I'll vary my weight training so that I'm working with lower weights for more reps, as this does make sense to me to build up stamina - One of the ways I wanted to also make my weight training do my metabolism some good and burn off some fat was to have vastly varying training days, e.g. chest and legs, shoulders and abs, back and arms etc so the blood never stops flowing - just a thought. Still need help with a diet plan and a workout plan though...


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

You could use a split system but i would do an all body workout for now and incorporate this further on as you progress, there are plenty of examples and info on this site on routines and diet, just read the stickys.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

learn the basics bud and start with a full body routine(lol the broken record)

3 a week.

add in lots of walking-2x30 mins a day, but make sure you have a couple of rest days a week.

eat clean,eat lots of protein,limit your carbs but dont starve yourself from them.

a certain amount of fat is good for you!

keep calories in deficit.

be consistent.

and have PATIENCE lol


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Sounds good  I'm gonna go on the feedback i've had so far and try and build up my own plan, then post it and see what you guys think.

Just a question though: The x-trainer: just how useful (or useless) is it? It's like I said, my heartrate goes way up but my breathing remains very controlled. Would it be better to just do a brisk walk on a treadmill?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

both are low impact low intensity cardio,swings and roundabouts...

as for the routine..start at the beginning and go with whats been suggested.

you`ll get nowhere fast on something fancy..


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

whats a x trainer is it an eclipticle or cross trainer? I quite like them

earphones are a must, but normally I like to walk, I was out this morning at seven for a five mile walk, and to catch a few morning rays.


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Cross trainer yeah  and I would go for a long walk but I'm in the middle of a city atm  when I move back to nearer the countryside though I'll be able to go for a few mile walks or bike rides 

@crazycal1: yuppppp I agree that I'd rather do a tried and tested routine than something that may or may not work


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## Magpie (Apr 6, 2009)

Firstly, well done in having the guts ( no pun intended) in asking for help - that's why most of us are on here.

Look through all the stickies and attempt to create a diet that works for you. Once you've had a bash at it for a week, post it up and others will help to tweak it.

There's loads of very experienced guys and girls on here who will help.

Remember - *it's a long road, enjoy the journey!*


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks Magpie and I'll do just that!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

lots of routines work,but its how theyre interpreted thats important.

cant go wrong with the most basic 

really impressed with how much effort youve put into this thread bud


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks 

Well I've looked through some stickies and googled a bit..

Here's a (pretty typical by the looks of things) full body workout that I found straight from google lol.

I've changed it around so that things I know I can't do (like pullups) I instead substitute with e.g. kneeling pulldowns (*in italic bold*)

I also don't know how to perform some of these exercises and I've underlined them. This is more for my benefit so I can look them up later but feel free to explain them to me  I probably know what they are, just not the names...

edit: As I get to grips with these workouts and can do them better, I hope to gradually decrease the rest period from 60-90 seconds to less, or do them as supersets

*Day 1:*

bench: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets *1 set flat, 1 set incline, 1 set decline*

Pull Ups: Perform as many pull-ups as you can for 3 sets. *kneeling pullsdowns*

Standing Military (Barbell or Dumbbell) Shoulder Press: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Barbell Squat: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Seated Calf Raise: 15 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Dumbbell Bicep Curls: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Tricep Bench Dips: Perform as many dips as you can for 3 sets.*

(Optional) Back Extensions: One Set of 15

Swiss/Stability Ball Ab Crunches: 20-25 *lol I can barely do 10 situps... I'll just do legs on bench crunches instead. I have no idea what a swiss ab crunch is in the first place..*

*day2 :*

30 mins x-trainer/brisk treadmilling followed by 30 mins swimming or a combination

*day 3:*

Dips: Perform as many reps as possible for 3 sets* *I can't really do dips cos of balance and weak whatever muscles support you during dips so I'll stick to bench dips here...*

Cable Rows: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Presses: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Barbell or Dumbbell Deadlifts: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Smith Machine Standing Calf Raises: 15 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Dumbbell Hammer Curls: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Overhead Seated Dumbbell Tricep Press: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Back Extensions: One Set of 15

Hanging Leg Raises/Roman Chair (Abs): Perform as many as you can for 3 sets *again, I have no idea what these are so I'll just do normal crunches...*

*Day 4: *

rest

*Day 5:*

Dumbbell Chest Press: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets *1 set flat, 1 set incline, 1 set decline*

Bent Over Dumbbell Rows: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Upright Rows (Dumbbell or Barbell): 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Lying Leg Press: 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

Seated Calf Press (Performed on Leg Press Machine): 15 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Reverse Bicep Curls (Palms down): 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Lying Tricep Dumbbell Extensions ("Skullcrushers"): 8-10 Reps for 3 Sets

(Optional) Back Extensions: One set of 15

V-Crunches/Jack-Knife Sit Up (Abs): Perform as many as you can for 3 sets. *Again, I have no idea what these are so normaly crunches...*

*Day 6: *

as day 2..

*Day 7:*

And on the Sabbath he rested 

It seems like a pretty good plan to go with and in the absence of any personal knowledge I'm gonna go with it.

Question about doing cardio in the middle though: recommended or no? Even on rest days I may go for a little walk or something but certainly no cardio on those days or otherwise...

Diet:

Here's what I've worked out so far:

Calories (not counted yet - yet to be done!!)

what I eat:

Usually I start the day with weetabix with 1% fat milk (I know I should really go with skimmed but I can't stand the watery taste... argh!) x3 bars

In between this time and lunch I will usually snack on EITHER a protein shake (3 scoops reflext instant whey to 300-400ml 1% fat milk) or 2/3 pieces of fruit (oranges, bananas, apples, strawberries, melon, that sort of thing)

At lunch I will usually eat whatever my mum cooks (lol) but in the absence of this I guess I'd either have (more) weetabix or omellete (3 eggs + milk + pepper but no cheese) a sandwich if I (ever) get a job

I wait an hour or so and will have another protein shake before heading to the gym and after my workout I will have another protein shake immediately after.

When I get home I usually have an omellete or some (2/3 pieces) fruit as I'll be hungryyyyyyy!!!

dinner usually consists of rice (as I'm asian) with a meat/vegetable dish sometimes accompanied by salady stuff (what can be attributable as salad I guess lol)

If I get peckish between dinner + bed, I'll usually have some more fruit or another shake.

Errrr I'm not really sure what else I should be putting here  hopefully someone will help me tweak or whatever as necessary

edit: also with the food I'm eating now, I feel bloated a lot... not a good thing so I'm gonna cut down on my portions as is anyway (slight calorie deficit and all that) But I'm gonna try and count the calories anyway (ughhh)

Day 1 workout results:

Bench - 40k 10 reps flat, 40k 10 reps incline then 8 reps (but I did chest yesterday so it was aching and I couldn't go any higher lol!) I don't see a way to do decline with the equipment at my gym.

Kneeling pulldowns - on the cable machine thingy, 35 wide normal overhand grip on 20kg, 15 on 25kg, then narrow reverse grip 20 on 25kg

Standing military shoulder press - oh man this one had me, my shoulders are WEAK (as is my back!) 25KG - 15 then 8, then 6 on 20kg (epic fail)

Barbell squat - 50kg all the way - 7,8,4 (d'oh)

Calf press (no sitting calf raise machine thing) - 2 sets of 15 on 142 on the leg press machine, then 1 set on 151 (weird weights I know :S)

Tricep bench dips - 18,9,8. I'm so bad at these..

Back extensions - did the 15

By this point I felt so nauseus I couldn't keep going so I stopped and didn't do the ab crunches. Oh man even though I don't think I did that much, this routine really took it out of me.


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## Magpie (Apr 6, 2009)

Take a look at Bodybuilding.com - #1 Exercises Guide - Over 300 Exercises! - this'll give you a good explanation of the excercises you intend to do.

Try to limit the number of units of fruit that you have per day - 1 or 2 pieces per day is enough.

Protein shakes should be used to supplement your diet not replace solid foods so try to find alternatives for morning and afternoon snacks.

Also, look at portion size. Your rice will be highly calorific so try to eat less rice and more veggies.


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks for the tip Magpie.

Wow, I knew rice was carby, didn't know it had high calories too!

I'll factor that into my considerations...

How does the workout plan sound and I still need to know if doing cardio in between full body workout days is wise...

Thanks!


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## webadmin1466867919 (Dec 1, 2006)

Magpie said:


> Try to limit the number of units of fruit that you have per day - 1 or 2 pieces per day is enough.
> 
> Protein shakes should be used to supplement your diet not replace solid foods so try to find alternatives for morning and afternoon snacks.


I see fruit and vegetables as the most natural food sources and I can't really see the reasoning behind limiting these, I have not heard of people getting fat on fruit as I usually get full after a dose of fruit.

Protein shakes are usually more beneficial than a solid meal however I can see most people's points that it might seem a little discomforting to replace all their meals with shakes but I see no problem with doing this.


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## jay j (Jun 15, 2009)

u can take stuff to loose water too. cuts u up silly i hear.


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

thanks for the info guys, still wondering if I should do cardio days in between full body days...

As for taking stuff to lose water.... I've got like a tonne of fat to get through before I even start worrying about that  will bear it in mind when I get there though


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

yes do cardio on off days but do have rest days too.

dont think to much bud.

have a peruse of opeth disciples posts he may have asked alot of your Q`s


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks for the reply!

And oops, I forgot to put up my workout from yesterday

Seated cable rows

75-10, 80-10, 75-7

Seated dumbell shoulder press

16-10, 18-9, 18-8

Deadlifts

60-10, 60-10, 65-9

Standing calf raise

52-15, 61-15, 70-15

Dumbell hammer curls

12-10, 12-8, 12-8

Back Extensions 15

Missed out: Overhead tricep press (arms in too much pain lol)

Hanging left lifts (felt sick by that point d'oh!)


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## jay j (Jun 15, 2009)

i can understand the man boob issue. even when u've lost weight those babies to budge. Options i've investigated are andractrim gel, which has some effect, but i think you gotta keep using it. then there is lipo which is surgery and pretty serious. next option is smart lipo which i ended up with, which aint serious surg like lipo and results are very very good, as glands are removed too. no returning tits!


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## Chuck123 (May 7, 2009)

Looking from your post it seems your really serious. Its time to stop thinking however and get out there and do it!

I was in a similar situation to you - weighing over 15 stone about a month ago. Through some help on this board - and figuring out what worked for me i managed to drop to 14 stone - and now after my fnial exam tomorrow i plan to hit the gym hard!

What i have discovered is diet is crucial. I went to the gym 5 times a week for 3 months and although saw improvements and toning - weight stayed fairly regular. Last month i went on a low carb high protein diet and i have lost one stone in just over a month.

It all depends how serious you are about it. I personally chose protein because A) people on here tlak about it for building muscle

and B) I like meat 

Protein is also extremely good at making you feel full without having to use carbs.

I personally hit the gym 5 times a week.... and i have changed my routine. I now try and do mostly cardio for 4 times a week and on the other day a full out weight session. The only way to lose that fat in my opinion is through cardio. Weights are great (free weights the best) but with that flab on top its gunna make little difference.

With the diet, ive found through a lot of people here its good to have one cheat day or meal per week. Apparently mixes up your metabolism and also stops you craving food for the rest of the week - however i mostly crave meat anyway so it works for me!

As for your routine in the gym, trry and mix it up a bit - elliptical is good but easy to slack on. Try treadmill at a fast walk then build up until you can run? Rowing machine is also good - with bike less so.

Ill leave you with my routine and diet - It might not work for you - and you can probably get a better base diet from a lot of others around here that know their stuff - but it has worked for me!

Good luck bud and just get out there and do it.

diet:

breakfast - museli

Lunch- chicken salad / some meat and salad

snack: 4 frankfurters covered in cheese

Dinner: steak/ some sort of meat with veggies

snack: apple or some sort of fruit.

Gym routine:

3km run

2km Row

3km bike

10minutes on cross trainer

5 minutes on the punch bag

assortment of machine weights

then for weight days

30 (3 sets of 10) bicep curls

30 bench presses

30 dead lifts

30 shrugs

30 of putting a weight behind head and lifting up and down

30 of what i call the lawn mower

30 of lifting the weights directly abbove your head and back down

as you can see i am a newbie and dont know what a lot of it is called 

Also - might be an idea to invest in some fat burner pills. i got some from extreme nutrition - ill be honest havent see too much of a difference but ive been slacking on gym seshes because of exams. Ill get back to you on how good they are after a few weeks. Also maybe thinking of investing in some whey protein but not sure yet need to have a good sniff around!

Good luck bud


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Cheers for the replies guys  chuck that's some intense cardio you got goin on there! Diet is still my weakpoint but I think I'm gonna switch over to the cardio for fat loss now; it's more of a prominent issue than the muscle building - I don't have that much anyway so even if I lose some it's alright cos I can always just build it up again right? 

I find that it's both in my own mind and in my appearance that I've found that I find myself most left wanting cos of the flab lol!

Just a curiosity here guys; How do I track progress at fat loss when the scales lie all the time...?


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

go by the mirror.

thats why 2x a week training would suit you mate..lots of time for cardio and altho you wont beleive but maximum(ish) muscle growth too


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## do_ob (Jun 14, 2009)

Hey crazycal1, I did also wonder just how much the full body workouts were benefitting... I did plan to stick with them as a 2/3 times a week thing and do more cardio. Guess I'll go with 2 

2nd: Go by the mirror huh... welllllllllll when you have THIS much flab you don't tend to notice the difference when a bit's gone haha! I guess I'll take pics also and compare week to week then month to month and eventually year to year.

Ahhh.. good stuff!


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