# Struggling to work out the back muscles correctly.



## EnglishWasp (Mar 19, 2013)

Hi,

I have been training for the last 6 months after a year break, ever since i've been back, I have really struggled to hit the lats correctly, they just ain't growing one bit, nor getting any stronger. Every other muscle i train is growing and in pain the next day after a good workout.

I never feel pain in my back after a workout, I was wondering if anyone could advise on what I could do to hit the muscles properly.

Thanks for any info.


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## andymc88 (Aug 18, 2011)

Just cos your not feeling pain doesn't mean your not hitting the muscle, search on YouTube on correct form on back and lat exercises maybe you might be doing some thing wrong


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## joeyh1485 (Mar 2, 2008)

Go on you tube an search Dorian Yates back seminar some awesome tips on there mate


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Full range of movement is key here, making sure you get the stretch at the bottom or top of the movement, depending which exercise you are doing.

Example: I see a lot of guys when doing pull ups, they only do the top half of the movement, as its easier. Instead they should be coming all the way back down, arms fully extended to engage the lats again.


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## EnglishWasp (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the info guys and I will check that youtube vid out too. Appreciate it.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Drop the weight, don't pull the weight with your arms just move your elbows down/back, squeeze at the bottom, 2-3+ negative.


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## TwoCanVanDamn (Jun 22, 2012)

Imagine your hands are hooks and try and pull with your elbows. Hope that makes sense as that mental cue really helped me feel my back doing the work


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## Queenie (May 30, 2013)

TwoCanVanDamn said:


> Imagine your hands are hooks and try and pull with your elbows. Hope that makes sense as that mental cue really helped me feel my back doing the work


This is right.

And as above, squeeze the muscle at the bottom of movement, stretch at the top.


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## EnglishWasp (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks a lot for the replys, all taken on board


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## ableton (May 24, 2013)

robdobbie said:


> Drop the weight, don't pull the weight with your arms just move your elbows down/back, squeeze at the bottom, 2-3+ negative.


^^ This!

Drop the weight and focus on the stretch and contraction on the muscles, and make sure you're using your back.

But saying thisjust because you don't get DOMS, it doesn't mean you're not making progress


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

Really wide arm pull ups, with your head finishing in front of the bar rather than behind in a normal pull up. These hit my last incredibly well, however they do required a considerable amount of calisthenic strength to do them properly.


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## EnglishWasp (Mar 19, 2013)

Mogy said:


> Really wide arm pull ups, with your head finishing in front of the bar rather than behind in a normal pull up. These hit my last incredibly well, however they do required a considerable amount of calisthenic strength to do them properly.


I really need to work on wide pull ups, at the moment I can do a massive total of 2 pull ups lol


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Concentrate on the muscle being worked. Use a full ROM.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Mogy said:


> Really wide arm pull ups, with your head finishing in front of the bar rather than behind in a normal pull up. These hit my last incredibly well, however they do required a considerable amount of calisthenic strength to do them properly.


Narrow underhand pull ups work the lats better than wide grip pull ups which work the teres, rhomboids and rear delts etc more. Like others have said make sure and pull with your elbows


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## Mogy (Oct 21, 2013)

36-26 said:


> Narrow underhand pull ups work the lats better than wide grip pull ups which work the teres, rhomboids and rear delts etc more. Like others have said make sure and pull with your elbows


Fair enough, in my opinion I disagree, I guess everyone's physiologically different though and it depends how exactly you execute each exercise.

My experience in back training is 4-5 years of climbing competitively, a sport where a lot comes down to the strength of your back. Trained to team gb level before packing in years of doing pull up variations to hit different areas. Used to do one arm pull ups too.

Just making it clear I wasn't pulling answers out of thin air.


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## marknorthumbria (Oct 1, 2009)

Nothing like a big dirty lat hang


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

marknorthumbria said:


> Nothing like a big dirty lat hang


 

:lol:


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

36-26 said:


> Narrow underhand pull ups work the lats better than wide grip pull ups which work the teres, rhomboids and rear delts etc more. Like others have said make sure and pull with your elbows


Studies have shown otherwise.

Although I am personally an advocator of the reverse grip pull up for those who can do them.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Try varying the grip to hit the lats from different angles.


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Nytol said:


> Studies have shown otherwise.
> 
> Although I am personally an advocator of the reverse grip pull up for those who can do them.


I've seen studies showing that they do so it goes to show there are always studies contradicting each other.

Dorian also said the same and he built one of the best backs of all time so if it's good enough for Dorian it's good enough for me.

I'd imagine some people are just physiologically different because I know I definitely feel my lats working more with narrow underhand grip or neutral grip. Wide grip overhand does nothing for my lats personally. It just shows yet again that everyone is different


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

36-26 said:


> I've seen studies showing that they do so it goes to show there are always studies contradicting each other.
> 
> Dorian also said the same and he built one of the best backs of all time so if it's good enough for Dorian it's good enough for me.
> 
> I'd imagine some people are just physiologically different because I know I definitely feel my lats working more with narrow underhand grip or neutral grip. Wide grip overhand does nothing for my lats personally. It just shows yet again that *everyone is different*


Yes and no.

Biologically we are all pretty much the same, and to do a pull up with an overhand grip, your lats *have* to work, they have no choice in the matter.

To say that Dorian's back is evidence of their effectiveness is a bit simplistic, keeping in mind his superior genetics for lats.

I could counter with 'I don't think that I ever saw Ronnie use them', but that would also be a pointless argument.

However, as I said, I rate the reverse grip chin very highly, although unfortunately due to wrist damage I can no longer fully supinate my hands without pain on chins, so stick to a moderate grip over hand chin, with a great deal of weight, and they work very well.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Nytol said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Biologically we are all pretty much the same, and to do a pull up with an overhand grip, your lats *have* to work, they have no choice in the matter.
> 
> ...


Great post mate


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## BoxerJay (Jan 11, 2011)

RXQueenie said:


> This is right.
> 
> And as above, squeeze the muscle at the bottom of movement, stretch at the top.


Seems much easier the other way around, eg - Curls?


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Nytol said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Biologically we are all pretty much the same, and to do a pull up with an overhand grip, your lats *have* to work, they have no choice in the matter.
> 
> ...


I just read an article in tnation by Bret Contreras using emg and he found that they are both very close in effectiveness in activation of the lats so I guess it comes down to which you prefer doing tbh. ????


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

36-26 said:


> I just read an article in tnation by Bret Contreras using emg and he found that they are both very close in effectiveness in activation of the lats so I guess it comes down to which you prefer doing tbh. ????


I rarely agree with anything said on T-nation, but I agree with your conclusion


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## EnglishWasp (Mar 19, 2013)

Tried doing back the ways u guys explained, I only went light to get technique right and my lats are aching today!


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

What did you do?


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## EnglishWasp (Mar 19, 2013)

andyhuggins said:


> What did you do?


Pulling with elbows, I never knew this was the way so I have wasted my time trying to train my back. But got the technique right now


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

When you do rows or pull ups try to imagine elbowing someone behind you it works and after a while it'll just come naturally


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## YoungEn (Feb 25, 2013)

Try doing shorter ROM keeps the tension on the back more, instead of the arms. Lift as heavy as possible without sacrificing too much form/technique. This article may help you out: http://fitnessinsane.com/training/top-10-back-exercises/


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