# High or Low reps on cut



## 1990 (Jan 31, 2011)

What is better for retaining muscle or even growin on a cut?

5x5 low reps or higher reps 12 10 reps?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

low. 100%

a full body 3x a week is a solid cutting routine.

Why? because you aim is to retain mass, and the push your body to retain maximum strength is a great way to ensure your body doesn't catabolise.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Either will work fine if diet and everything else is good.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

same as your offseason

people lose size when they start lifting lighter and up the reps IME


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## AsItIs (Sep 24, 2012)

1990 said:


> What is better for retaining muscle or even growin on a cut?
> 
> 5x5 low reps or higher reps 12 10 reps?


Both. Mix It Up, Keep It Fresh. I Like To Go Low Volume, Heavy 1 Week, And Then High Volume, Light, The Following Week. Also Gives Your Body A Break.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Not ever really considered changing reps for a cut... my suggestion is keep with whatever you grow best on.


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## Franko1 (Nov 19, 2008)

Yep it should change. The only thing that needs to change on a cut is your diet and upping your cv.


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## minidorian (Nov 19, 2009)

the diet and the suplementation is the most important. I have do a lot of competition, I have tried high volume, heavy train ... The important it's how you feel when you train. But if your can do it's a mix of the different trainning. In every part of your muscle keep a heavy weight mouvement.


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## scouse2010 (Mar 17, 2010)

How long will it take before you lose strengh while cutting if your not lifting heavy ?

Ive switched to 6x6 light weight low rest 15-20 seconds and I trian each body part twice a week,6 days on 1 off.

But I dont know how long to stay on it for as I dont want to lose any strengh I have gaine,was thinking 6 weeks before I started the program but I may just do 4 weeks

suggestions ?


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## JuiCed-uK (Feb 7, 2012)

Why not mix it up a little and use different reps for different exercises on the same day...?

e.g chest day

flat bench press - 5 sets of 5

decline dumbbel press - 3 sets of 8-10

incline dumbbel press - 2 sets of 12-14

cable flys - 2 drop sets


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Mad cow or 531 are top routines for cutting


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

There is no such thing as a cutting routine, dropping heavy weights for lighter ones just to get more reps wont make you anymore cut, if anything you will lose size.

When i did my first show this year i changed nothing with me weight training, i kept the same days, same exercises and pretty much the same weights, the only thing that changes was diet and the addition of a hell of a lot of cardio.

So basically as Dtlv74 said - "keep with whatever you grow best on"


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Chelsea said:


> There is no such thing as a cutting routine, dropping heavy weights for lighter ones just to get more reps wont make you anymore cut, if anything you will lose size.
> 
> When i did my first show this year i changed nothing with me weight training, i kept the same days, same exercises and pretty much the same weights, the only thing that changes was diet and the addition of a hell of a lot of cardio.
> 
> So basically as Dtlv74 said - "keep with whatever you grow best on"


I partially agree.

Nothing drastic should be changed, but with sensible changes to programming, you can gain strength on a cut and thus reduce the chance of losing muscle.

The same progression as on bulk will burn all but the beginners out.

A complete overhaul from bulking to cutting is silly


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Gaining strength on a cut? I dont think so - you are in a calorie deficient state coupled with cardio thrown in there as well, there is no way you will be hitting PB's on a cut in my opinion unless you are doing it wrong and taking on too many calories.


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Chelsea said:


> Gaining strength on a cut? I dont think so - you are in a calorie deficient state coupled with cardio thrown in there as well, there is no way you will be hitting PB's on a cut inmy opinion unless you are doing it wrong and taking on too many calories.


It can be done with proper kcal and carb cycling. I am testament to that.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

TommyFire said:


> It can be done with proper kcal and carb cycling. I am testament to that.


My calories, carbs fats and proteins were measured and i carb cycled and there was no strength gain, i just cant see how it is possible when you are doing extra exercise and having far less than normal calories.

Do you have any proof of this? Or are you just going to type that you went from benching 'x' weight for 10 reps to benching 'x' weight for 12 reps?


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Chelsea said:


> My calories, carbs fats and proteins were measured and i carb cycled and there was no strength gain, i just cant see how it is possible when you are doing extra exercise and having far less than normal calories.
> 
> Do you have any proof of this? Or are you just going to type that you went from benching 'x' weight for 10 reps to benching 'x' weight for 12 reps?


What sort of proof do you want? I can email you scanned copies of my training diary but other than that i dont have a camera crew follow me 24/7.

Excess kcals/carbs on training days, defecit on days. It takes some micromanagement but it really is that easy.

The key is that it has to be done slowly and it really is possible.

However it only works to a certain bodyfat, below 8-9 % you will lose strength but im sure 95% of us on this forum never need to go below that bodyfat % anyway.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

TommyFire said:


> What sort of proof do you want? I can email you scanned copies of my training diary but other than that i dont have a camera crew follow me 24/7.
> 
> Excess kcals/carbs on training days, defecit on days. It takes some micromanagement but it really is that easy.
> 
> ...


You dont have a camera crew? Mate iphones were invented years ago, you need to get filming your pb's 

If you say you did then you did but personally i dont think its possible, certainly not when you're prepping for a show but you didnt say you were so there we have it.

Agree to disagree.


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Chelsea said:


> You dont have a camera crew? Mate iphones were invented years ago, you need to get filming your pb's
> 
> If you say you did then you did but personally i dont think its possible, certainly not when you're prepping for a show but you didnt say you were so there we have it.
> 
> Agree to disagree.


 :beer:


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Actually it is possible and I've had these results also. I cut down from 27% to my current level of about 11% and my strength has gone up on all lifts.

In case you're wondering I've been training for the past 20 odd years and I hadn't had any new gains for years until starting my program, which incidentally is Ultimate Diet 2.0. It's a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet.

I'll be very interested to see if I can still maintain my muscle as my bodyfat goes even further lower.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Actually it is possible and I've had these results also. I cut down from 27% to my current level of about 11% and my strength has gone up on all lifts.
> 
> In case you're wondering I've been training for the past 20 odd years and I hadn't had any new gains for years until starting my program, which incidentally is Ultimate Diet 2.0. It's a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet.
> 
> I'll be very interested to see if I can still maintain my muscle as my bodyfat goes even further lower.


Good for you. Personally for me this would most likely be because of a vastly improved diet especially if you were at 27% initially.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Chelsea said:


> Good for you. Personally for me this would most likely be because of a vastly improved diet especially if you were at 27% initially.


Well, I guess that it would be fair to say that I didn't see the forest for the trees, i.e. all I was worried about was trying to get my weights up in gym and I just ate everything I wanted without really realising how fat I'd got. Really stupid with hindsight.

But I'm not the only one who has had exceptional results with a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet, in terms of gaining some strength whilst shedding alot of fat. Like I said I've gone down to about 11% BF, not really mega low. I don't know if it will be possible to maintain muscle mass whilst losing much more bodyfat.

Anyway, we're going off-topic to the OP's question. My answer to the OP is that in my opinion low (or lower)-rep strength training is crucial on a cut. Back in the 1970s bodybuilders thought that it was a good idea to up the volume and reps on a cut, but times have moved on.. That's often just a sure-fire recipe for losing muscle mass. UD2 does have high-rep workouts, but they are there for a purpose - to deplete the body's glycogen stores. But then again UD2 also has a low-rep power workout for anabolism.

This touches on the concept of a successful CKD - there has to be obviously a low-calorie phase for stripping body fat. However this phase is going to be invariably catabolic, thus there needs to be a higher-calorie phase which puts the body back into anabolism. The idea is to lose body fat and at least maintain muscle mass.


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

Bull Terrier said:


> Well, I guess that it would be fair to say that I didn't see the forest for the trees, i.e. all I was worried about was trying to get my weights up in gym and I just ate everything I wanted without really realising how fat I'd got. Really stupid with hindsight.
> 
> But I'm not the only one who has had exceptional results with a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet, in terms of gaining some strength whilst shedding alot of fat. Like I said I've gone down to about 11% BF, not really mega low. I don't know if it will be possible to maintain muscle mass whilst losing much more bodyfat.
> 
> ...


Funny cos i actually lost strength doing U.D 2.0!!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I moved my PB on a deadlift from 180 to 215 on a cut. And moved my bench from 105 to 115.

I cut from 81 to under 77 whilst this happened.


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