# CARDIO AT NIGHT



## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

The only chance i have of doing cardio is at night, as i am doing my version of the chef x diet i have my last meal of the day at 10pm.

My question is will it do me any good to do 20 - 30 min stationary cycle every evening at 11pm and what should be my aim regarding bpm to loose weight, I am 34


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Cardio late at night for me makes me wired and makes it difficult for me to sleep. If you can do it without it interfering with your sleep, you could do - but I'd say that speeding up your metabolism late at night isn't ideal.

Why not go to bed 30 minutes earlier, and get up 30 minutes earlier and do your cardio then?


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

good idea big

tyson rather than worry about bpm just shoot for a good sweat without killing yourself

30-40 mins is a good start


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

God advice form Big and Janine there!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

robdog said:


> God advice form Big and Janine there!


Lol Rob.

First thing in the morning. You will also be more productive in your day also.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

The problem i have is i am a late night person, i dont sleep anyway but pay for it in the morning so rather not get up earlier, so would i be wasting my time then


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

robdog said:


> God advice form Big and Janine there!


shame you dont take it eh Mr 'I wonna be John Candy but the ginger version'???

You will never get into that wedding dress unless you buck your ideas up!

Stop sniffing the bottom of next doors Yorkshire terrier and get back on that bike garlic breath.....oh.....

....Remember to take the broom handle out of the seat post and put back on a saddle more suited to your fat spotty pale ginger crack!! :gun:


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Jimmy said:


> shame you dont take it eh Mr 'I wonna be John Candy but the ginger version'???
> 
> You will never get into that wedding dress unless you buck your ideas up!
> 
> ...


Fock me your on form tonight mate.

If you werent a fat wanna be cockeny umpa lumper dwarf i would be admitting defeat. LMFAO. :lift:


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

LOL.. Play nice now ladies!


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

LMAO I love him realy.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Thats some funny ****.

Tyson, melatonin will help you sleep, so will Calcium and Valarian root.

As above cardio in the morning with an empty stomach.

Caffene will help burn more too.


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## Moray Muscle (Jan 10, 2005)

There is only ONE type of cardio worth doing at that time of night if u know what i am saying

lol


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Moray Muscle said:


> There is only ONE type of cardio worth doing at that time of night if u know what i am saying
> 
> lol


Two minutes is not cardio mate!


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

winger said:


> Two minutes is not cardio mate!


Ringer....he is Scottish, dont judge him by your standards

He isnt just talking of the actual sex.

Its also the run down to the fridge to open a can of larger and have a smoke before she wakes up from concussion so he can get in another shag!!!

Thank heavens for buckfast :beer:


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

LOL.....That would be a bit hard as missus works nights.

OK how about this, ive changed my training to monday, wednesday and friday so if i do cardio lets say tuesday, thursday and saturdays at around 6pm would this be better.

As i do not do cardio anyway surley something is better than nothing.

CHEERS FOR THE SLEEPING TIPS


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

I ASSUME I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE, HAVE SOME OF YOU FALLEN OUT WITH EACH OTHER LOL


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

TYSON said:


> LOL.....That would be a bit hard as missus works nights.
> 
> OK how about this, ive changed my training to monday, wednesday and friday so if i do cardio lets say tuesday, thursday and saturdays at around 6pm would this be better.
> 
> ...


How ever many calories you burn doing cardio, is that many calories off of your caloric intake for the day. So yes any cardio is better than no cardio when trying to loose bodyfat. Also it helps move the stuff through your intestins.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

TYSON said:


> I ASSUME I AM MISSING SOMETHING HERE, HAVE SOME OF YOU FALLEN OUT WITH EACH OTHER LOL


not at all mate

we are just all very familliar with each other and sometimes get a little cheeky :beer:


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## Moray Muscle (Jan 10, 2005)

LOL @ buckfast


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Falling out

Nah, Jimmy is blown out.

Too many men sets and not enough time in between for healing.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

you would know hackzooki


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

truth be known cardio is cardio doing some no matter what time you do it is better than doing non at all...

there are just better times to do cardio...

the best (imo) is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach 45min walking at a decent pace with an incline..

the 2nd best being PWO when you have just used all of your available carbs for weights so your cardio can tap into your fat stores for energy...

the 3rd being approx 60min after your last meal which when your trying to lose fat shouldnt be that much after 8pm

you have loads of substances that will help the process(Caffeine/ECA..etc..etc) but the main rule is just do cardio no matter what time..

in my opinion anything less than 30min is a waste of time as your body only taps into your fat stores after 20min....

also something else to bear in mind your body is not only in Fat burning mode for the time you are doing cardio it is also in fat burning mode for a further 3x time doing cardio(40min cardio = 120min post cardio fat burning)

this is only my opinion....


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

What HE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^said!

Nice post Pscarb!


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

BY PSCARB

approx 60min after your last meal which when your trying to lose fat shouldnt be that much after 8pm

you have loads of substances that will help the process(Caffeine/ECA..etc..etc) but the main rule is just do cardio no matter what time..

this makes sense to me but i am doing the chef x cutting diet which means at 9 - 10pm i am eating a small meal of meat, broccali, and one of the following....pasta or rice or potatoes, but this is a very small meal like 5 spoonfulls so whats the right thing to do.

I allways thought i shouldnt eat after 8pm but started to get cravings, then some one advised me to eat between 9-10pm and then i found this diet and again it says ear between 9-10pm so i am confussed.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ok i am not going to tell you to drop that meal as ChefX knows what he is talking about when it comes to dieting but we all have our own way and i would say no to eating Carbs after 8.00pm you could have a whey drink just before bed mixed in water if you want to......

i am sure ChefX would agree that his diet can be custamised to the individual if you feel that this is the only time you can do cardio(at night) and you don't want to be doing it after 10.00pm at night then you must make the decision what path to take.....


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

ok thanks again, would 3 cardio sessions of around 30 minutes each on my non training days be better, at say 6pm, i would have eaten at 4pm, have a whey shake after the cardio and then eat again at 7pm. IS THIS A BETTER OPTION AND STILL KEEP THE 9-10PM MEAL. TO BE HONEST WEATHER I SHOULD HAVE THIS MEAL OR NOT IT DOES STOP ME CRAVING FOOD AT NIGHT THAT I SHOULDNT BE EATING LIKE CRISPS OR SOMETHING SO IT PROBALLY MAKES SENSE TO KEEP THE LATE MEAL IN FOR ME ANYWAY. i HAVE MY FIRST WEIGH IN IN THE MORNING AFTER MY FIRST WEEK ON CHEF X SO MAYBE THAT WILL DECIDE WHAT I DO


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

you can do the cardio on non training days i would increase to 40min though...


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> truth be known cardio is cardio doing some no matter what time you do it is better than doing non at all...
> 
> there are just better times to do cardio...
> 
> ...


I agree with some of this. I usually do my cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and i find this seems to set my metabolism off nicely. I have a 30min->40min jog at a fast pace and I end up buzzing all morning and my body temp is higher than usual. A sort of similar effect to as if id just taken some ECA.

I wouldnt do cardio just after my workout as im so knackered by then i just wouldnt have the energy or strength to do any cardio. As a result i always try to do my cardio on non-weights days to ensure i have maximum energy for my workout and give me change to recover fully from my cardio session.

The "body only burns fat after 20mins of cardio" is something ive heard quite a few times and may well be scientifically proven. But, in practise ive not found this. If i only do cardio for 20mins it certainly will burn loads of fat off me!!! I think its more linked to how hard you do the cardio. If your only going to mince along at a slow pace then after 30mins its not going to have much of an effect, but if your running like your a rapist on the run, then i think 30mins will nearly kill you and certainly start shifting that fat!


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

I am only managing to do 30 min on an stationary cycle at the moment but i do sweat like a pig lol so i assume this is doing me some good.......

Its my legs that suffer more than me not being able to get my breath, i have only just started working on my legs as i have never done legs before so i assume these are just week.


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

Yep, your legs will hurt if your not used to using them. Not to mention your backside will really ache if your not use to sitting on a bike seat for 30mins. lol. You dont have to do just cycling though, the treadmill, or jogging on the street are also good.

At the moment im splitting my cardio between stationary cycle & the heavy punchbag. Spending 5mins hard work on each, alternating between the 2 for about 45mins.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

there is no need to hammer it tyson

also, keep the seat high which will take the pain off the quads


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

turbo said:


> I wouldnt do cardio just after my workout as im so knackered by then i just wouldnt have the energy or strength to do any cardio. As a result i always try to do my cardio on non-weights days to ensure i have maximum energy for my workout and give me change to recover fully from my cardio session.!


you are knackered just after your workout because you have used all of your available energy lifting the weights so when you do the Cardio the only energy really that is going to fuel your Cardio is your fat stores just because you have no energy doesnt mean it isnt a good time to do cardio....



turbo said:


> The "body only burns fat after 20mins of cardio" is something ive heard quite a few times and may well be scientifically proven. But, in practise ive not found this. If i only do cardio for 20mins it certainly will burn loads of fat off me!!! I think its more linked to how hard you do the cardio. If your only going to mince along at a slow pace then after 30mins its not going to have much of an effect, but if your running like your a rapist on the run, then i think 30mins will nearly kill you and certainly start shifting that fat!


it has been proven many times...if the fat falls of you after only doing 20min of cardio that is great but for long term fat burning it is better to walk at a steady pace of 3.5-4mph on a incline this taps into your fat cells much more effeciantly than running like an idiot for 20mins(the more you sweat does not determine how much fat you lose as some guys sweat more than others)..doing cardio between 65%-70% of your max heart rate burns more fat than going full out at Max heart rate for 20min....

but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others for you to only do 20min cardio and the fat falls off of you i would say you have a fast metabolism....

also doing cardio on non training days means that you never get a break from training(weights/cardio)and you might fall into the overtraining syndrome....


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> you are knackered just after your workout because you have used all of your available energy lifting the weights so when you do the Cardio the only energy really that is going to fuel your Cardio is your fat stores just because you have no energy doesnt mean it isnt a good time to do cardio....
> 
> it has been proven many times...if the fat falls of you after only doing 20min of cardio that is great but for long term fat burning it is better to walk at a steady pace of 3.5-4mph on a incline this taps into your fat cells much more effeciantly than running like an idiot for 20mins(the more you sweat does not determine how much fat you lose as some guys sweat more than others)..doing cardio between 65%-70% of your max heart rate burns more fat than going full out at Max heart rate for 20min....
> 
> ...


So what about the idea that you need to have a carbs/protien drink within 30mins of finishing your training. Surely if i do cardio after my weights i`ll miss that window of opportunity. Not only that, i`ll be so knackered anyway my half hearted attempt at cardio would risk me injuring myself?

With regards to overtraining. Surely as long as your not hitting the same muscle groups more than twice a week and your diet is good you wont be over training? For example, i have a 3 day split and do cardio 2 mornings on my non weight days. That means i get 2 whole days off to recover. Also, for example, if im having a jog on a tuesday morning, im not hitting the weights until wednesday evening, giving me more than a whole day between them, which in my opinion is enough time to recover.

I think the "but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others" is the key thing here. As always, id suggest trying different things and seeing what works for you.

Another suggestion to try is HIIT cardio, thats also very effective.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Pscarb said:


> it has been proven many times...if the fat falls of you after only doing 20min of cardio that is great but for long term fat burning it is better to walk at a steady pace of 3.5-4mph on a incline this taps into your fat cells much more effeciantly than running like an idiot for 20mins(the more you sweat does not determine how much fat you lose as some guys sweat more than others)..doing cardio between 65%-70% of your max heart rate burns more fat than going full out at Max heart rate for 20min....
> 
> but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others for you to only do 20min cardio and the fat falls off of you i would say you have a fast metabolism....
> 
> also doing cardio on non training days means that you never get a break from training(weights/cardio)and you might fall into the overtraining syndrome....


What Pscarb said. Additionally:

What percentage of calories used comes from something called respiratory exchange ratio (RER).

RER is the volume of Co2 produced divided by the volume of O2 consumed. As you work harder, your oxygen demand increases until your oxidative metabolism can no longer supply your muscles with enough to function, they then become anearobic and work without oxygen present. At this point the RER is high so 100% of energy comes from carbohydrate. At low intensity (as in walking) RER is low so almost 100% of energy will come from fat.

Thing is, when you work at a lower intensity you have to work for longer or regardless of the fact you utilised only fat as an energy source you will have used less calories. THe recommendation is to walk for at least 30 minutes preferably 45-hour for any benefit.

A 20 minute run may burn only carbs, but it will burn many more calories than the equivalent at a walking pace.

HTH

SD


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

turbo said:


> So what about the idea that you need to have a carbs/protien drink within 30mins of finishing your training. Surely if i do cardio after my weights i`ll miss that window of opportunity. Not only that, i`ll be so knackered anyway my half hearted attempt at cardio would risk me injuring myself?


you need the drink when you have totally finished your workout to help with recovery see as you will be incorperating some muscle groups when performing cardio then you have not stopped training so you have your Drink after your cardio..

as for being knackered and doing a half assed attempt if you want to lose weight then you should have the focus and determination to do the cardio.....



turbo said:


> With regards to overtraining. Surely as long as your not hitting the same muscle groups more than twice a week and your diet is good you wont be over training? For example, i have a 3 day split and do cardio 2 mornings on my non weight days. That means i get 2 whole days off to recover. Also, for example, if im having a jog on a tuesday morning, im not hitting the weights until wednesday evening, giving me more than a whole day between them, which in my opinion is enough time to recover.


if you are training Mon\Wed\Fri then you recover when you are resting and that is when you grow but if on your rest days you do cardio at such a pace that you are shattered then you are not resting therfore their is a chance you could go into overtraining i am not saying it is a certainty i am saying it is a possability and should be mentioned.


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

Interesting stuff. So if your having a run on an empty stomach first thing in the morning like myself, where does it get the carbs from?


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> you need the drink when you have totally finished your workout to help with recovery see as you will be incorperating some muscle groups when performing cardio then you have not stopped training so you have your Drink after your cardio..
> 
> as for being knackered and doing a half assed attempt if you want to lose weight then you should have the focus and determination to do the cardio.....
> 
> if you are training Mon\Wed\Fri then you recover when you are resting and that is when you grow but if on your rest days you do cardio at such a pace that you are shattered then you are not resting therfore their is a chance you could go into overtraining i am not saying it is a certainty i am saying it is a possability and should be mentioned.


Surely its better to do the cardio though when you are more focus`d and are less worn out? I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve. I know plenty of people who if they are having a weights workout will not push themselves quite as hard if they know they have a cardio session left to do after they finish the weights. Therefore their weights session will be less intensive - which is probably acceptable if the only aim is to loose fat and not build muscle.

With regards to overtraining, surely again its a timing thing. As i said, if im having a cardio session for 30mins on a tuesday morning, then resting all day tuesday & all day wednesday before having a weights workout wednesday evening then its not really overtraining for me. But, i agree its a possibility for some. - just as the possibilty of doing the cardio on a non-weights day will work for some people better than doing it straight after a workout.

All good points though, and all of these are things the original poster needs to think about and try before deciding which is the best for them / their lifestyle.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

turbo said:


> Interesting stuff. So if your having a run on an empty stomach first thing in the morning like myself, where does it get the carbs from?


your missing the point mate for most doing cardio in the morning or at anytime for that matter is to burn Cals and ultimatly burn Fat if you aint got any Carbs then the energy your body produces will come from fat however the 20min minimum still applies as your body always has some carbs stored.....

as for guys who take it easy weight training so they can complete their cardio are idiots....whe i diet for a show and i am staying in a hotel then my cardio is done after a workout and beleive me when i work out it is always 100% does that make the cardio harder hell ya!!! but where is the fun if it is easy......


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Nice thread. Pscarb wouldn't cardio after a workout further deplete the glycogen and nitrogen storage so needed to rebuild? I understand that cardio after a workout puts you that much closer to the fat burning stage, but I want as much as I can get out of my workout. So I eat right after I train.

If doing cardio after I train and then I eat, am I still going to be in the fat burn stage for 3 times my minutes?

Do you see the peradox?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well if it takes about 30 minutes to tap in to burning fat instead of carbs then It would make sence to workout first then do cardio second.

Would you not slip into the fat burning stage faster for your cardio?

Also if it was between 65%-70% of your max heart rate for cardio that would not kill you after a workout with weights.

So if you lifted for 40 minutes and then did cardio for 20-30 minutes would not that be mostly fat burning?

Ive always read that after a resting fast (sleep) doing cardio burns the most amount of fat.

Also test levels are highest and cortisol is lowest early in the morning.

If you cant do that then cardio after weights taps into fat burning quicker.

But on a good diet, I got away from doing cardio all together and did only weights and lost alot of fat.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

hackskii said:


> So if you lifted for 40 minutes and then did cardio for 20-30 minutes would not that be mostly fat burning?


Yes, that would seem logical.

However, I know that after lifting with intensity for 40 minutes, there's no way in hell I can do 20-30 mins of cardio!

Also, I wonder if doing the cardio after lifting would actually really be burning more fat than doing it first thing in the morning, or would it just be hampering your ability to recover from your weights session? I would have to lean towards the latter personally.

I tend to do extremely low intensity cardio (walking) most days for about 45 minutes, at a completely different time to lifting. I find this gives a nice boost to my metabolism, plus it's probably quite good for my heart.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Ok then, if I dont take in carbs and my body is using ketones for fuel, and I do cardio now what? Do I instantly go into fat burn?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

winger said:


> Ok then, if I dont take in carbs and my body is using ketones for fuel, and I do cardio now what? Do I instantly go into fat burn?


Some of the protein you eat will convert to carbs so you will burn some carbs but not alot because there wont be many available.

You would either burn ketones or free fatty acids.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

big said:


> I tend to do extremely low intensity cardio (walking) most days for about 45 minutes, at a completely different time to lifting. I find this gives a nice boost to my metabolism, plus it's probably quite good for my heart.


I do too. I train at lunch and do cardio after work. Well for the last 2 1/2 weeks. 

When I started back doing cardio, my poopoo's were better. Ok I know to much info, but it is true. I think the body just works better. Infact I think the body was made to move and not be so sedentary.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ok the main point for Cardio is to burn fat(although i am sure someone will come up with a diffrent reason....lol) i refer bact to my first post on this thread the best time (and it has been proven many times and no i don't have the studies)to do cardio to burn fat is first thing in the morning...

but if you cannot do this then the next best time is after training now the 30-45min Window of oppertunity you have all spoken about is started when all activity of muscle fibers has stopped otherwise if you train bi's before chest does that mean you miss out on the rebuilding of the biceps....

it takes alot of muscle fibers to do cardio even at a walking pace of 3mph which should the min....so once you have finished your cardio then take your drink and you will still be within the "Window"...

as for being able to do cardio after you train because you have no energy PLEASE!!!!! when i diet for a show i train with 100% intensity and then do 45min cardio at 4mph all on 50g of carbs if you aint got the focus to do it you won't succeed.....


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> as for being able to do cardio after you train because you have no energy PLEASE!!!!! when i diet for a show i train with 100% intensity and then do 45min cardio at 4mph all on 50g of carbs if you aint got the focus to do it you won't succeed.....


I think I love you.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

hope i didnt come across as a **** in that last post...but to me if you want to lose fat for whatever reason you get the job done.....


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> hope i didnt come across as a **** in that last post...but to me if you want to lose fat for whatever reason you get the job done.....


Or geterdone

No mate you didn't come across like that on the last post, it is all your posts.........lol.....jk.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

turbo said:


> Interesting stuff. So if your having a run on an empty stomach first thing in the morning like myself, where does it get the carbs from?


Your Liver and muscles store Glycogen, enough for an hour of light exercise in fact 

THis store can be increased with carb loading.

SD


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Well if it takes about 30 minutes to tap in to burning fat instead of carbs then It would make sence to workout first then do cardio second.
> 
> Would you not slip into the fat burning stage faster for your cardio?
> 
> ...


AT 65-70% intensity you would be burning mainly carbohydrate. To burn fat the intensity is more like 50% or RER of <0.75



hackskii said:


> Ive always read that after a resting fast (sleep) doing cardio burns the most amount of fat. .


This is because blood glycogen is said to be low, as alot of us drink a shake pre-bed this won't be true, also the liver and muscles store glycogen so you won't run out in a hurry. Intensity defines what fuel is used and how much, nothing else.

If ya wanna lose fat, raise your metabolism (calories out) and diet (calories in) simple. The methods utilised to achieve these two goals vary dramatically.

SD


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

winger said:


> Nice thread. Pscarb wouldn't cardio after a workout further deplete the glycogen and nitrogen storage so needed to rebuild? I understand that cardio after a workout puts you that much closer to the fat burning stage, but I want as much as I can get out of my workout. So I eat right after I train.
> 
> If doing cardio after I train and then I eat, am I still going to be in the fat burn stage for 3 times my minutes?
> 
> Do you see the peradox?


SOrry for multiple posts I don't know how to quote from different posts together,

Your muscles take Glycogen first from stored muscle Glycogen, so if you worked legs then ran (if you can) this theory may hold true excpet that the muscle will then call upon the body to mobilise some fat or liver glycogen into the bloodstream and it will get it from there, thus burning more cals and some fat at that.

I think to be safe, keep cardio intensity low <60%, duration for minimum 30 mins and row instead of run on leg day to prevent overtraining or depletion of local muscle Glycogen needed for repair.

HTH

SD


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

I agree that cardio can be done at anytime to burn of cals

But I disagree that 30-40 mins are needed to shift the fat.

I think 10 minute cardio is best

And I have a feeling that I`ll be proved right soon,even though the idea has been around for years.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> I think 10 minute cardio is best
> 
> And I have a feeling that I`ll be proved right soon,even though the idea has been around for years.


10 minute of cardio might not be enough if the person is 40%bf.......lol 

I like 20 minutes hard myself.......easy Jimmy.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

winger said:


> 10 minute of cardio might not be enough if the person is 40%bf.......lol


So I can take it then that you mean 10 mins of cardio isnt good enough for you as "YOUR" 40% bf??????????????????? :lift:


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

i'm trying 10 mins cardio at atm and it is working like a dream - never read it anywhere, just tried it off cuff since i felt it would be ok for me..... nice to see someone has said it on here  - wierd!


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Running for 10 minutes at 6mph or 10min mile, burns average 94 calories. I ate that many in brocolli in one of my six meals.

Can't see how 10 minutes cardio is gonna help, it wont even get you fit statistically, unless you do that three times a day.

Added to that is the fact that most people take between 3-5 minutes to warm up anyway, so you get warm and then 5 minutes later all done 

SD


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i agree 10minutes cardio might give you a good feeling and all that but it doesnt shift fat as SD says it takes a 3-5min to even warm up......

i wish this was true as when myself and alot of my freinds diet for shows we would only have to do 60-70min of cardio per week instead of the 30-45min per day we do now....


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> So I can take it then that you mean 10 mins of cardio isnt good enough for you as "YOUR" 40% bf??????????????????? :lift:


No, im only 39%, so it does apply to me.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

SportDr said:


> Added to that is the fact that most people take between 3-5 minutes to warm up anyway, so you get warm and then 5 minutes later all done
> 
> SD





Pscarb said:


> also something else to bear in mind your body is not only in Fat burning mode for the time you are doing cardio it is also in fat burning mode for a further 3x time doing cardio(40min cardio = 120min post cardio fat burning)
> 
> this is only my opinion....


So it is 5min cardio =15min post cardio fat burning Geterdone!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Ok here we go again

This is an article I found that should shed some light on this subject:

Article by Bill Phillips, copy and paste but not in that order

Some people fear that if they do aerobics at all, they'll lose muscle mass. This is not the case. Recent studies [using a sophisticated procedure called "stable isotopes"] have revealed that, "Although aerobic exercise may stimulate muscle breakdown, this does not result in a significant depletion of muscle mass because muscle protein synthesis is stimulated in recovery." In this particular study, they experimented with aerobic exercise that was moderately intense [40% of VO2max, which corresponds to a heart rate of around 120 beats per minute].8 Also remember that one study with aerobic exercise during dieting indicated an increase in lean body mass. 38 And yet another recent trial showed that combining a low-calorie diet with the combination of resistance training and aerobic exercise was the most efficient method of burning bodyfat.24

In spite of this evidence, I don't recommend aerobic work the way many bodybuilders perform it, which is in what I call a "fed state" or after you've recently eaten. For example, I don't recommend doing aerobic exercise at 6:00 at night if you had a meal at 3:00, 4:00, or 5:00. It will take you 30 minutes just to burn the calories from one snack or small meal. My time is more valuable than this, and I suspect yours is as well.

Going back to the last question, I want to emphasize again that the best way to maximize the benefits of aerobic exercise is to do it in the morning, after an overnight fast--after not eating for at least ten hours. *Some time ago, at our metabolic lab here in Sweden, we found that subjects burned around three times more fat in the morning [after an overnight fast] during aerobic exercise compared to afternoon exercise in a fed state. We presented this information at the 1996 FASEB conference. * Even more interesting was the finding that the proportion of protein being burned decreased rather than increased during early morning exercise. In other words, at a heart rate of about 120 beats per minute, you will not experience muscle catabolism, even though you are fasting. Actually, we discovered that over a 24-hour period, a positive nitrogen balance of around 5-9%, depending on protein intake, was measured with something called "leucine isotopes," which is one way we try to trace how much protein is being built up or broken down in your body in response to exercise.

*Here's one more tip: drink a liter of water on an empty stomach in the morning, about five minutes before your cardio. This will make your blood "hypo-osmolaric" which helps push fluids into muscle, where they may act to prevent protein breakdown according to Häussinger's theory on cellular hydration, which states that, "Protein loss is triggered and maintained by reduced cell volume, secondary to loss of intracellular water.*"19

The bottom line is, the best way to maximize the results from aerobic exercise during a fat-loss cycle is to do it first thing in the morning. Even if your primary goal with using the Anabolic Burst Cycling System is to bulk up, you have got to keep your system "primed" with each cutting cycle, and part of that is doing aerobic exercise. Thus, even if you just want to get big and strong, do your cardio!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Another copy and paste: Bill Phillips

Caffene:

There is something you can do that helps; in fact, I've discovered something very powerful which helps you increase the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise, as well as increasing the release of adrenaline, which helps psyche you up a bit--especially early in the morning! This stuff also helps prevent the exercise-induced decrease in intramuscular potassium, which also plays an important role in keeping water inside the cell. This compound even helps spare glycogen. When you are running out of glycogen, there is a signal to start the breakdown of muscle protein and convert it to glucose. This process is called "gluconeogenesis." Glycogen will also assist in keeping water inside the cell, which, as we've already discussed, is very important.

Fortunately, the compound I'm talking about is readily available, legal, affordable, and has no serious side effects. It's called caffeine. Yes, regular ole caffeine. Not only does it do all the stuff I already mentioned,2,10,13,23,30 studies show caffeine helps increase performance, too. For example, in one study caffeine users were able to bicycle for 96 minutes until exhaustion, instead of 75 with a placebo, and gluconeogenesis decreased by 55%.30 What this means is that the muscle was using just half as much glycogen when caffeine was present--intramuscular triglycerides were used; thus, less water left the cell. In another similar study, but with competitive cyclists, caffeine users exercised for 90 minutes until they gave up, compared to 75 minutes for non-caffeine users. And what is even more interesting is that the caffeine group burned 1.31 grams of fat per minute, compared with .75 in the placebo group.10 That's almost twice as much! Yet another study showed that exercising subjects who were using caffeine were able to work for 79 minutes versus 49 minutes [placebo group] until exhaustion.18 Caffeine also increases resting metabolic rate by up to 15%.1,3

All of these studies were using dosages producing urinary concentrations below the level accepted by the International Olympic Committee [12 mcg/ml].29

Now keep this in mind: the optimal effect from caffeine is when the glycogen deposits are low33--for example, after an overnight fast--and when the user is not tolerant or used to caffeine use.14 Thus, you should definitely cycle caffeine. Taking caffeine all the time not only lowers its effects but could also induce insulin resistance,26 which is something we must avoid.

I try to use caffeine only on the mornings I do aerobic exercise, which, during the dieting phase of my Anabolic Burst Cycling Program, is 3 or 4 mornings a week, for 30-45 minutes per session. I drink one liter of water five minutes prior to exercise. I also take in a couple hundred milligrams of caffeine as soon as I get up. Optimally, I like to take this caffeine at least 30-45 minutes before I start my cardio.

BP: What if someone eats lunch at noon and then does aerobic exercise at 6:00 p.m.? Is this enough of a fast to get the full benefits of aerobic exercise?

TA: I'm afraid this would not work out very well. You see, the "starvation time" must be longer than six hours before you encounter a significant increase in fat burning. The ideal time of fasting for optimal fat loss is around 10-12 hours, depending on the amount of glycogen you have stored at the onset of the fast.

It's also not a good idea to go six hours during the day without eating. As I described already, during the anabolic phase you will not get maximum results unless you eat often throughout the day. And during the dieting phase, fasting during the day will likely produce low energy levels, making it difficult to exercise at all.

It's a lot easier to fast during the nighttime--our bodies were obviously built for this. Some researchers now believe that one of the most important functions of this "hot" fat-burning hormone called "leptin" that you hear about in the news is that it inhibits hunger during the night hours.28 I don't know if you've ever thought about it, but it's actually pretty easy to go from 8:00 at night to 8:00 in the morning without eating. Think about why this is. There's got to be some type of physiological mechanism that makes this possible. Leptin could have something to do with this. Think about how difficult it would be to go from 8:00 in the morning to 8:00 at night without eating--it would be literally painful.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> i wish this was true as when myself and alot of my freinds diet for shows we would only have to do 60-70min of cardio per week instead of the 30-45min per day we do now....


All you have to do is look at 100m sprinters to see how lean and muscular they are.

They are walking proof both for short duration workouts and cardio.

They do the maximum amount of work in the shortest amount of time.they recruit the most amount of muscle fibres and lung capasity during the 100m sprint than a marathon runner or 1500m runner.

They are more ripped than the long distance runners and a hell of a lot more muscled.

If you want to get ripped quick try doing some interval sprints or hill sprints for 10 mins and you`ll soon see the fat melt of you and your overall fitness go through the roof.

As for not using cardio at all with regards to dieting that can be got around by doing volume training but in the same vein of the sprinters in doing the most amount of work in the minimum amount of time,ie, a system around the old german volume training methods or a chase the clock method(serge nubret style) were in you attempt to do as many sets as possible in a set time period(5mins)whilst still using a heavy weight(reps are unimportant)and reducing rest periods between sets to a measly 5 breaths and you do the next set again.

As with the german volume the rest period is usually 30-60 secs well you just reduce that back down to the 5 deep breaths and continue to the next set.

Both of the above can be used for not only a decrease in body fat but also a increase in lean muscle mass and fuller more pumped muscles for longer.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Nice post OSC, that makes sense.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

what do ppl think of the MAX-OT cardio style?? Its belief is that u go hell for leather for 16 mins on the interval setting that comes with many machines such as treadmills, exercise bikes.....

Seems to work for the likes of Kevin Levrone, Paul Dillet and Skip la Cour


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

Been away for the weekend and came back to see all these posts lol, Just read them all but i have to be honest even though you all make alot of sense, you cant all be right so to be honest you have all confused me more before i asked the question lol

Basically i have worked up to 30min stationary cycle as my legs and ass arnt as sore now, i am doing this tuesday, thursday, saturdays at around 6pm which are non training days which is the time i would normally be training. I like to keep everything at set times, but also i am a bad sleeper so morning cardio is a no no.

SO BASICALLY AM I DOING ANYTHING WORTH WHILE OR NOT ?

i have read all the replies and thankyou for all of them but some go against others so for me i will have to stick to what i am doing what do you think


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> All you have to do is look at 100m sprinters to see how lean and muscular they are.
> 
> They are walking proof both for short duration workouts and cardio.
> 
> ...


Yah, but what if the fastest sprinters had the lowest % of bodyfat and that is what makes them faster than the ones who have higher bodyfat?

And not from their workout but from their success as sprinters?

What if the sprinters we see that are the fastest had the genetics to be the fastest and the fastest were the leanest bodyfat and alot of fast twitch muscles in the legs, which get hit during sprinting?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

TYSON said:


> Been away for the weekend and came back to see all these posts lol, Just read them all but i have to be honest even though you all make alot of sense, you cant all be right so to be honest you have all confused me more before i asked the question lol
> 
> Basically i have worked up to 30min stationary cycle as my legs and ass arnt as sore now, i am doing this tuesday, thursday, saturdays at around 6pm which are non training days which is the time i would normally be training. I like to keep everything at set times, but also i am a bad sleeper so morning cardio is a no no.
> 
> ...


That is fine Tyson. Just keep doing what you are doing. Did you swap the bad carbs for the good carbs? How much have you lost so far?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

hackskii said:


> Yah, but what if the fastest sprinters had the lowest % of bodyfat and that is what makes them faster than the ones who have higher bodyfat?
> 
> And not from their workout but from their success as sprinters?
> 
> What if the sprinters we see that are the fastest had the genetics to be the fastest and the fastest were the leanest bodyfat and alot of fast twitch muscles in the legs, which get hit during sprinting?


Now your just being argumentative.

Maybe they had the lowet BF% because they did the most amount of work before the race???

Maybe they had the most musle because they did the most work in their training???

At the end of the day marathon runners are lean and skinny

And 100-200meter runners are big and cut.

The proof is right before your eyes.


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> All you have to do is look at 100m sprinters to see how lean and muscular they are.
> 
> They are walking proof both for short duration workouts and cardio.
> 
> ...


You have pointed out in this reply that sprinters are lean and muscluar, but you attribute that to their low volume high intensity training.

Wouldn't it perhaps be more likely due to there body composition? Muscle increases metabolism many times more than fat, these guys are muscular because of a balanced training programme which will include distance running as even sprinting has a small aerobic element.

They do weights and sprints and are muscular as a result, that muscle is what keeps them thin as much as low volume high intensity training IMO.

SD


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

They didnt ask me if they did weights,any idiot knows they do weights.

What I am pointing out is that they do the most amount of work in the least amount of time and are ripped and muscular because of it.

Hence no need for spending 30+ minutes doing boring cycling or walking.

O if you were a bodybuilder a balance d training routine good diet and some sprints will rip you up.

Or some high volume training(in shortest amount of time)good diet will rip you up.

Plus if they dont do the sprints or weights they`ll get fat like the rest of us and loose muscle.

Plus I never said they did low volume I said they did short distances, theres a difference.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Now your just being argumentative.


 

SHhhhhhhhhh


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

winger said:


> That is fine Tyson. Just keep doing what you are doing. Did you swap the bad carbs for the good carbs? How much have you lost so far?


Im having problems again to be honest. I have been using the chef x approach for 10 days now, the first week was ok and lost the 2lbs i was supposed to but this week my body is rejecting the food ? I put the oats near my mouth and start to reach (sick) but force it down and then come the dinners ect: the same thing so i had to stop today and just eat normall meals as i didnt feel good. The problem is im back to where i was needing a new diet plan but i dont really feel right asking any more after haskis comments on my other threads about me asking the same questions. No offence haski but ya know it stops people wanting to ask for advice now.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

TYSON said:


> The problem is im back to where i was needing a new diet plan but i dont really feel right asking any more after haskis comments on my other threads about me asking the same questions. No offence haski but ya know it stops people wanting to ask for advice now.


Dont worry about it Tyson, your fine. I havn't read the Chefx book yet but I will in a few days. Feel free to pm me and I will try to hook you up on somthing.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

PMd you CHEERS


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

TYSON said:


> PMd you CHEERS


Got it!


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## turbo (Nov 23, 2003)

TYSON said:


> Been away for the weekend and came back to see all these posts lol, Just read them all but i have to be honest even though you all make alot of sense, you cant all be right so to be honest you have all confused me more before i asked the question lol
> 
> Basically i have worked up to 30min stationary cycle as my legs and ass arnt as sore now, i am doing this tuesday, thursday, saturdays at around 6pm which are non training days which is the time i would normally be training. I like to keep everything at set times, but also i am a bad sleeper so morning cardio is a no no.
> 
> ...


Thats the problem when you get many different people with different opinions. Very often they try to advocate their own person experiences as being the best for *everyone*. Im a firm believer in trying something yourself and seeing if it works as not everyone is the same.

I found when i was 16 that going for a jog first thing in the morning worked best for me to loose fat. I still do that now and 15 years later im hearing people on here agreeing with me about that.

PSCARBS has a lot of good points, but not everyone here is competing or as focus`d as he is. Many have said, like me, that if they are really training balls-out for 1hr on the weights they just havent got any energy left for cardio. But, im sure there are others who, like PSCARBS, can use this approach with great results.

So, once again, its different horses for different courses. Try it and see.


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## TYSON (Aug 30, 2004)

That makes alot of sense, cheers for that, im currently doing 30min stationary cycle 4 nights a week at around 6pm on none training days. This combined with my version of chef x is helping loose 2lb a week so it is a slow process but something must be working lol. As you say things work for people differently, on chef x it says have sunday as a eat what you like day but i find i can eat what i like saturday and sunday and still loose the 2lbs.


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