# Deadlift/rack pull



## Gazza81 (Aug 18, 2011)

One of my routines is rack pull shoulder press pullups cgbp

ive always had a bit of a bad lower back and i only do the rack pull for upper back.

im fed up of constantly having a bad back, had xrays and shows just slight wear and tear nothing major, also not helped that i drive a van for a living sometimes sitting in it for 6hr drives!

in thinking of just jacking in deadlift of sny kind now and doing shrugs to start that routine off, what do you guys think?

im 36 now and cant be dealing with messing my back up any more than it already is!


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

If you're not competing, heavy deadlifts aren't overly necessary for general well being and health, especially if they're giving you a bad back.


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

You might just have really s**t flexibility in the hips (like most people)


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## Kitson (Jan 25, 2016)

Gazza81 said:


> One of my routines is rack pull shoulder press pullups cgbp
> 
> ive always had a bit of a bad lower back and i only do the rack pull for upper back.
> 
> ...


 You should consider some flexibility exercises and foam rolling if you don't do it already. I'm currently having some trouble with my upper back and find it does relieve some of the aches.


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## Gazza81 (Aug 18, 2011)

Flexibility is definitely a problem, especially my hips, i do stretch now and have done for the last 3-4 months so it's getting better.

i think its the wear and tear in my lower back then sitting for long periods in my van just doesn't help at all.

Might just sub it for shrugs and give my back a rest for a bit then


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Gazza81 said:


> Flexibility is definitely a problem, especially my hips, i do stretch now and have done for the last 3-4 months so it's getting better.
> 
> i think its the wear and tear in my lower back then sitting for long periods in my van just doesn't help at all.
> 
> Might just sub it for shrugs and give my back a rest for a bit then


 Try some yoga/Pilates as well. Really helps my wife who suffers from chronic back pain every few months.

She stretches etc and it goes away. Stops stretching and it comes back. She never learns!


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Do you have a video showing your form, op?

Deadlifts arent necessary anyway.


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## Jay0205 (Jul 30, 2011)

Ares said:


> You might just have really s**t flexibility in the hips (like most people)


 I definitely have an issue with this...any advice on specific stretches that can help?


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

Jay0205 said:


> I definitely have an issue with this...any advice on specific stretches that can help?


 This is the best bang for buck stretch I've used






Do that a couple times a day for a week and you'll see (and feel) a huge difference :thumbup1:

Couple more here






Justin is a total dork but knows what he's talking about :lol:


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## Jay0205 (Jul 30, 2011)

Ares said:


> This is the best bang for buck stretch I've used
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Cheers, I'll definitely give those a go :thumbup1:


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

One upper back exercise worth considering is rear delt rows. That's rows done with the elbows up towards the shoulders rather than by the sides. To spare the lower back you can either do these laying on a high bench, or one arm at a time with dumbbells.

I do these following RDLs at the moment.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Ultrasonic said:


> One upper back exercise worth considering is rear delt rows. That's rows done with the elbows up towards the shoulders rather than by the sides. To spare the lower back you can either do these laying on a high bench, or one arm at a time with dumbbells.
> 
> I do these following RDLs at the moment.


 Or incline a bench, towel on the end and rest the forehead on the towel then do the rows bent over.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Or incline a bench, towel on the end and rest the forehead on the towel then do the rows bent over.


 That's certainly a way to do more conventional rows while sparing the lower back. I suggested what I did as I took 'upper back' to not mean the lats, but I could well have misunderstood. An incline bench would presumably work the part me of the traps above the shoulder a bit more though.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Ultrasonic said:


> That's certainly a way to do more conventional rows while sparing the lower back. I suggested what I did as I took 'upper back' to not mean the lats, but I could well have misunderstood. An incline bench would presumably work the part me of the traps above the shoulder a bit more though.


 think he means standing infront of the bench and resting the head on the end, not lying on the bench, which ive done in the past but starts to put stress on the neck.

for barbell rowing without hurting the back, the best way (imo) is to do slow, controlled reps to the sternum with a pause/contraction at the top. that really limits the amount of weight that can be rowed compared to powering it up to the stomach


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

a.notherguy said:


> think he means standing infront of the bench and resting the head on the end, not lying on the bench, which ive done in the past but starts to put stress on the neck.


 Ah! I was thinking the bench wouldn't be long enough the other way round. Now I've understood I think it might even be possible to rest your chest on the bench if you use dumbbells?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

a.notherguy said:


> for barbell rowing without hurting the back, the best way (imo) is to do slow, controlled reps to the sternum with a pause/contraction at the top. that really limits the amount of weight that can be rowed compared to powering it up to the stomach


 I now hold the contraction briefly at the top on all rowing too, including Yates style barbell rows (focusing on contracting my lats).


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## Gazza81 (Aug 18, 2011)

Ok cheers guys, i will definitely take them stretches and do the upper back rows.

i always feel that if i take the deads out of my routine theres not enough to it, any suggestions on how to arrange it with out them, that includes rdls.

currently i do

A squat ,bench , chest support row, bicep all 4x8

B deads, shoulder press, pull ups , cgbp 4x8 deads 1x5

i find this best suits me but take out a compound and it just doesn't feel enough


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

richardrahl said:


> Do you have a video showing your form, op?
> 
> Deadlifts arent necessary anyway.


 from my own exp tbh deadlifts do build a lot of density in the back. sure you dont need it, but dense muscle comes from lifting heavy s**t off the floor


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## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I now hold the contraction briefly at the top on all rowing too, including Yates style barbell rows (focusing on contracting my lats).


 What is your routine at the minute mate?


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## Frost_uk (Sep 1, 2014)

Ares said:


> This is the best bang for buck stretch I've used
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Id like to try these but the 2nd vid he is using a dog, I don't own a dog  anyone got a spare one?


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## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

Frost_uk said:


> Id like to try these but the 2nd vid he is using a dog, I don't own a dog  anyone got a spare one?


 Will send the mother in law round!

Ba-dum-tsch!!!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

DappaDonDave said:


> If you're not competing, heavy deadlifts aren't overly necessary for general well being and health, especially if they're giving you a bad back.


 Deadlifts are probably the most fundamental movement pattern there is from a perspective of general health, they trump anything IMO. If you experience pain as said by @Ares more than likely it is flexibility that is lacking. If anything deadlifts should be thickening your spinal erectors and reinforcing your lower back, not damaging it. Only reason to steer clear would be sciatica, a slipped disk or other injuries that may be worsened by performing the actual movement.


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## Gazza81 (Aug 18, 2011)

Quackerz said:


> Deadlifts are probably the most fundamental movement pattern there is from a perspective of general health, they trump anything IMO. If you experience pain as said by @Ares more than likely it is flexibility that is lacking. If anything deadlifts should be thickening your spinal erectors and reinforcing your lower back, not damaging it. Only reason to steer clear would be sciatica, a slipped disk or other injuries that may be worsened by performing the actual movement.


 Im just getting over sciatica as it happens, it wasn't from my back tho its caused my inflammation of the piliformis? Muscle in my ass! Seems fine now tho


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Deadlifts are probably the most fundamental movement pattern there is from a perspective of general health, they trump anything IMO. If you experience pain as said by @Ares more than likely it is flexibility that is lacking. If anything deadlifts should be thickening your spinal erectors and reinforcing your lower back, not damaging it. Only reason to steer clear would be sciatica, a slipped disk or other injuries that may be worsened by performing the actual movement.


 Pffff, biceps are more importanterer mate.


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

zyphy said:


> from my own exp tbh deadlifts do build a lot of density in the back. sure you dont need it, but dense muscle comes from lifting heavy s**t off the floor


 Agreed mate, but if they're causing probs, you drop them. Good rack pulls will work a treat and are one of my favourite exercises. If need be, the spinal erectors can obviously be isolated with other exercises.

Deadlifts changed my physique more than any other exercise when I started them years ago. I just wouldn't say they're 'needed'.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Gazza81 said:


> currently i do
> 
> A squat ,bench , chest support row, bicep all 4x8
> 
> ...


 Looks like you're trying to go for whole body routines? If so the biggest issue with dropping deadlifts would be the lack of lower body work in the second session. Unless you were looking to prioritise upper body?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Actually, am I reading it right you've only been doing a single set of deadlifts up to now? That's not much lower work to begin with, so maybe I'm misunderstanding your intentions?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Gazza81 said:


> Im just getting over sciatica as it happens, it wasn't from my back tho its caused my inflammation of the piliformis? Muscle in my ass! Seems fine now tho


 Had the same thing with my piriformis mate, I pulled it and developed slight sciatica, daily stretching and mobility soon fixed this though and I was back to deadlifting within a month. Deep tissue work on your piriformis with a lacross/hockey ball would be of extreme benefit also, you just have to be persistent with rehab and spend a good 20 mins a day on it.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Ultrasonic said:


> I now hold the contraction briefly at the top on all rowing too, including Yates style barbell rows (focusing on contracting my lats).


 same here, i ego lifted my way to a a fcuked up forearm rowing too much so since then i go with pure form and feel on rows and have never had a problem since


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Throughout my entire lifting life I have only occasionally included dead's into my routine.


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## Gazza81 (Aug 18, 2011)

I definitely prefer a full body workout three days a week, I've done split routines in the past 3,4 days.

I find with my work if I can only make it two days a week it doesn't matter with a full body routine.

Also find my strength is up a lot more with a full body

At the moment I'm not focusing on lower body too much as I'm just getting over this sciatica so not too fussed about too much legwork.

I have been doing lots of stretching on the piliformis but when I sit in my van for 6 to 12 hours a day it really doesn't help so just taking a bit longer to get over it I think. Get in there though .


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## Gazza81 (Aug 18, 2011)

Ares said:


> This is the best bang for buck stretch I've used
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Just tried that first stretch, jeez didn't realise how tight i am! Really felt it in my quads


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## Glenjamin (Oct 4, 2016)

I sit down a lot of my day as well and I've suffered from back pain on and off in the past (not for a couple of years now) and a couple of things i've learned over time..

1. Only stretching out the lower back once a week. Sounds stupid but reading into it quite a lot its easy to overstretch your lower back which can provide relief at the time, but ultimately it'll get sore again quickly. Its fine for your lower back to contain some tightness as it supports the spine.

2. as already said hip and hamstring stretches are vital. https://gmb.io/hip-mobility/

3. If you're doing full body splits twice a week find a few upper/lower stretches that are easy to come in and out of the stretch and do 8 -10 reps with only a 5 second hold per rep of each at the start like he does in the hip stretches. I usually concentrate more on chest, upper back and shoulders and for my legs just hold ass to grass body squats. If its a one sided stretch like left shoulder or whatever do the 8-10 reps in one go. Then at the end of session take the same stretches or maybe some different ones that are better to actually hold for say 20 seconds and just do maybe 2-3 reps but alternate body part between each. I concentrate more effort at this point on leg and hip stretches with less upper body. Stretching is ultimately the same as training your body needs time to heal so its handy if you stretch well and train the same day.

4. Once you have sorted the above go back to deadlifts light with concentration on perfect form and then work up. I've actually found deadlifts to help my problem strengthening the muscles in my back.

5. Breaking my own rule i do have one hip stretch i do in work while seated on occasion which is to sit up properly in the seat cross my leg the manly way (like you would to set a pint on your knee).. Then push down on the pint knee. The hip stretch is immense!

If you do however want to remove the deadlift which is fine and replace with a heavy lift for mid/upper back. How about landmine pendlay rows. I used to find barbell pendlay rows irritated my back before i did all of the above but i loved the movement so i moved over to the landmine version. Reason it doesn't hurt the lower back is you gain support from your free arm resting on your leading leg taking a lot of strain off the lower back. Similar principal to using a bench while rowing etc except you can bring up serious weight in the supported pendlay position with the added benefit of a weight set down each rep taking even more strain off the lower back.

just some thoughts from my own past struggles.


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

Glenjamin said:


> 5. Breaking my own rule i do have one hip stretch i do in work while seated on occasion which is to sit up properly in the seat cross my leg the manly way (like you would to set a pint on your knee).. Then push down on the pint knee. The hip stretch is immense!


 Try it against a wall mate, it's even better!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Throughout my entire lifting life I have only occasionally included dead's into my routine.


 What does this prove?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Ares said:


> Try it against a wall mate, it's even better!


 Exactly how I do it, never knew there was a video I could link for people. Cheers. X


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> What does this prove?


 You do not need to do them.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> You do not need to do them.


 Of course you don't need them, you can substitute it for other exercises. Personally I don't see any other exercise as being as an all round fundamental back developing exercise than deadlifts though. Once you lift a half decent weight on them you'll understand.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Of course you don't need them, you can substitute it for other exercises. Personally I don't see any other exercise as being as an all round fundamental back developing exercise than deadlifts though. Once you lift a half decent weight on them you'll understand.


 what d you call half decent Quackerz? My warm up sets are usually heavier than peoples working sets.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> what d you call half decent Quackerz? My warm up sets are usually heavier than peoples working sets.


 I'm no world class athlete but I've pulled 245. @swole troll has seen me doing paused deads with 190 for clean fast reps in video I sent him via PM also just to help me back up my claim.

I'm guessing you pull 400?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> I'm no world class athlete but I've pulled 245. @swole troll has seen me doing paused deads with 190 for clean fast reps in video I sent him via PM also just to help me back up my claim.
> 
> I'm guessing you pull 400?


 Probably....But I DON'T REALLY DO DEAD'S

PM me said vid if you don't mind. I will respect your anonymity if that is what you want.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Probably....But I DON'T REALLY DO DEAD'S
> 
> PM me said vid if you don't mind. I will respect your anonymity if that is what you want.


 Deleted off my YT account mate, only uploaded it for a quick form check.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Probably....But I DON'T REALLY DO DEAD'S
> 
> PM me said vid if you don't mind. I will respect your anonymity if that is what you want.


 I'll send you a video in a couple of months when I get my number back up.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> I'll send you a video in a couple of months* when I get my number back up. *


 Lol don't bother mate.

Cheers


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Lol don't bother mate.
> 
> Cheers


 Been off for half a year due to injury you tit. LOL


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Been off for half a year due to injury you tit. LOL


 I don't fu**ing care you juiced up gob shite. :whistling:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Been off for half a year due to injury you tit. LOL


 Did you put your back out ? :lol:


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> I don't fu**ing care you juiced up gob shite. :whistling:


 :lol:

I'm not on gear at the moment. 



Natty Steve'o said:


> Did you put your back out ? :lol:


 No need to post twice, I got the notification. I got an umbilical hernia around and inch and half in length, just had surgery last week. I'll be lifting more than you in no time. :thumbup1:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> :lol:
> 
> I'm not on gear at the moment.
> 
> No need to post twice, I got the notification. I got an umbilical hernia around and inch and half in length, just had surgery last week. I'll be lifting more than you in no time. :thumbup1:


 Go bust a gut mate 

Don't for get to jab.....


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Go bust a gut mate
> 
> Don't *for get* to jab.....


 Forget


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I can pull four fiddy for reps & being natty.... ffs

I'll post a vid


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> I can pull four fiddy for reps & being natty.... ffs
> 
> I'll post a vid


 Talking kilograms you muppet. :lol:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Talking kilograms you muppet. :lol:


 LOL so am I, it Just shows how pathetic your attempts are while using :lol:


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> LOL so am I, it Just shows how pathetic your attempts are while using :lol:


 OK Eddie, settle down, didn't mean to offend.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> OK Eddie, settle down, didn't mean to offend.


 Just give me some time to get my numbers up ...... :lol: PMSL


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Just give me some time to get my numbers up ...... :lol: PMSL


 Go tear your abdomen open and get back to me mate. X


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Go tear your abdomen open and get back to me mate. X


 Been there done it, got the T shirt matey! We both have this in common. Op is in and out of hospital in one day


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Been there done it, got the T shirt matey! We both have this in common. Op is in and out of hospital in one day


 And you were lifting 450(lb) for reps straight afterwards I take it? :lol:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> And you were lifting 450(lb) for reps straight afterwards I take it? :lol:


 no i was takin the piss ...


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> no i was takin the piss ...


 So was I.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> So was I.


 Ah ok, So you were not injured and cant lift s**t....\


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Ah ok, So you were not injured and cant lift s**t....\


 I think you are just getting confused now. :confused1:


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