# Bigtommay - Shut up and Cut up!



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Thought it was time for a new journal to track my progress as I now look to shift some unwanted fat. I'm aiming to get around 10%

I'll keep things brief here:

Stats:

Height - 5ft 8ish

Current Weight - approx 173.5lbs (78.86 kg)

Bodyfat - Who knows, I would estimate 20-25% - I have a fat stomach but fairly lean arms.

Max Lifts:

Deadlift - 180kg

Squat - 140kg (3x5)

Bench Press - 75kg

(My Lower to Upper strength is a bit disproportionate)

Training:

Training Routine will be IA Simple Power Based Routine - 3 days per week and HIIT cardio 2 days per week. May have to work around deadlifts as I've had a lot of issues with my lower back.

Nutrition:

~3000 cals per day. 295C, 260P, 85F

Let's do it!


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Good luck with it, bud!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I might pop in from time to time


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)




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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

this thread is worthless without pics. of your penis


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> this thread is worthless without pics. of your penis


****


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> ****


and??!?!?!?!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Haha all ****'s welcome.

I'll post up penis pics when i get home and where i can use an autotimer. I cant get far enough away from the thing with the camera to fit it all on the screen :laugh:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Subbed mate! Cutting myself atm!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Subbed mate! Cutting myself atm!


It's that time of the year! 

Have you a cutting journal? i popped in to your recomp one from time to time after reading some of your posts on Tom's journo but i didnt say hello. When you're late it feels a bit like gatecrashing a party :laugh:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Yes mate its only a week in too so you're quite early this time :lol:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/225922-first-cut-my-life-time-get-ab-ulous-7.html


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

subbed, not being able to deadlift must be a pain.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> subbed, not being able to deadlift must be a pain.


It is mate, it has a psychological type effect on me as well somehow.

I may try and switch it around slightly, lessen the weight significantly, switch to sumo for shorter rom and different starting position, and also go double overhand as well. Getting the time to get it looked at first is my main priority though.

Also what is the general consensus with wearing a belt when having back trouble? I know most say avoid under normal circumstances but what about an aging always injured duffer like me?


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> It is mate, it has a psychological type effect on me as well somehow.
> 
> I may try and switch it around slightly, lessen the weight significantly, switch to sumo for shorter rom and different starting position, and also go double overhand as well. Getting the time to get it looked at first is my main priority though.
> 
> Also what is the general consensus with wearing a belt when having back trouble? I know most say avoid under normal circumstances but what about an aging always injured duffer like me?


Have never used a belt but its worth a shot if it helps you while you are injured.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> It is mate, it has a psychological type effect on me as well somehow.
> 
> I may try and switch it around slightly, lessen the weight significantly, switch to sumo for shorter rom and different starting position, and also go double overhand as well. Getting the time to get it looked at first is my main priority though.
> 
> Also what is the general consensus with wearing a belt when having back trouble? I know most say avoid under normal circumstances but what about an aging always injured duffer like me?


Sounds sensible


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Be careful with the belt though mate, use it maybe for rehab, but don't become reliant on it, or you're never going to build up the strength in the lower back to recover fully.

Then the day you try without the belt, it will probably go again!

I was told by the doctor when I dislocated my knee, don't wear heavy supports as its going to prohibit your knee gaining strength again. Use a lower weight and ease it In gently, supports are to 'support' you, to help you. If you are at 100%, and add a belt you're now at say 110%.

If your back is only at 90% and you add a belt, sure you'll be at 100%, but as soon as you remove the belt you'll be back at 90%.

That's how it was explained to me anyway.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Subbed up in this b!tch



Sambuca said:


> this thread is worthless without pics. of your penis


You dirty perv!

I couldn't agree more :tongue:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

A good ole cutting meal.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Have never used a belt but its worth a shot if it helps you while you are injured.





simonthepieman said:


> Sounds sensible





onthebuild said:


> Be careful with the belt though mate, use it maybe for rehab, but don't become reliant on it, or you're never going to build up the strength in the lower back to recover fully.
> 
> Then the day you try without the belt, it will probably go again!
> 
> ...


Thanks guys. I'll start off using lighter weights keep form 110% if i still struggle i'll try a belt and if that fails i'll just have to leave off for a while. Will definitely switch to sumo anyway.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

IA workout C today.

Sumo Deadlift - 120 x 5,5,5

Leg Press - 127 x 10,10

Chinups - BW x 6,6,6,5

Recline DB Curls - 8 x 8,8,8

No time for calves which was sh1t.

Thankfully I still have mobility in my back, however can still feel something during each rep and by lifting light i was able to focus on it a lot more. Definitely seems to originate at the tailbone on the right side.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> IA workout C today.
> 
> Sumo Deadlift - 120 x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Have you had any massage or foam roller action on it yet, mate?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Have you had any massage or foam roller action on it yet, mate?


I've had it massaged by the missus but that all. It's been well rested as well now but doesn't fully dissapear. Annoying as fvck!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weighed myself for fun this morning and i've not lost any weight. Possibly a combination of getting back to training and adding creatine mono daily. Cardio to commence later.


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Weighed myself for fun this morning and i've not lost any weight. Possibly a combination of getting back to training and adding creatine mono daily. Cardio to commence later.


Surely creatine will only bloat you and make you look fatter?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

onthebuild said:


> Surely creatine will only bloat you and make you look fatter?


I'm not sure tbh mate. I haven't personally noticed any bloat specifically from creatine in the past. I got more bloated on a bulk without it lol.

Ive noticed a fee guys on boards saying that it causes bloat but having researched the likes of norton and aragon the past few months i'm sure they say a cuts the perfect time to use it when trying to preserve strength. Something along the lines of the water is held within muscle cells and not in the skin.

I'm still learning though so i could have interpreted it all wrong.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

First HIIT session completed earlier. 20 mins with 1:4 ratio 30 sec sprints. My monitor said 250 cals burned from the cardio itself. Im sure my heart still hasnt settled though. I wanted to burn 400...maybe in time with increased fitness.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> First HIIT session completed earlier. 20 mins with 1:4 ratio 30 sec sprints. My monitor said 250 cals burned from the cardio itself. Im sure my heart still hasnt settled though. I wanted to burn 400...maybe in time with increased fitness.


First session back doing cardio feels awful doesnt it? Felt like death after 5 mins on the cross trainer, gets better quickly though.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Have to say, I always put weight on with creatine, but never felt I looked bloated. But then I'm generally a skinny fecker anyway, so maybe a bit of bloat suits me! Lol


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> First session back doing cardio feels awful doesnt it? Felt like death after 5 mins on the cross trainer, gets better quickly though.


Death is exactly how i felt lol. I might reduce the sprints to 20s next time keeping a 1:4 ratio. Very hard to go flat out for 30secs after not doing any real cardio for a while.



Monkey skeleton said:


> Have to say, I always put weight on with creatine, but never felt I looked bloated. But then I'm generally a skinny fecker anyway, so maybe a bit of bloat suits me! Lol


Lol. Are you using any currently mate? Creatines one of those things i nearly always forget to take lol. Will need to set it as a daily reminder on my phone :laugh:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Did a one off sat workout today:

Incline Bench Press - 55x5,5,5,5

DB Bench Press - 22 x 8,8,7

DB skulls - 10 x 10,7,7

OHP - 30X 10,6,5

Lying leg raise - BWx10,10,10

Felt good today. I know the weights are still light but my last session i felt like garbage, today i felt good. Apart from gettinf the order wrong and doing db skulls before ohp. There was nothing left by the time i got to them.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I had a few HIIT sessions not so long ago.

10km/h for 1 minute

16km/h for 30 seconds

Almost died after 15 minutes. I think you're doing it right if your heart is pounding half hour later :lol:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I had a few HIIT sessions not so long ago.
> 
> 10km/h for 1 minute
> 
> ...


Yeah i felt sick mate. Had to delay my dinner a bit lol.

Not too sure about what speeds i did. I just know it was absolute maximal effort for 30 secs followed by minimal effort for 2 mins. I hear of folk doing 1:2 ratios, i think that would have killed me off lol. My mhr was at 170 according to my monitor.

Will be interesting to see how it improves.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Been having a look around at deadlift form vids on the internet and had a look at mehdi from stronglifts, what do people think of his form on the his heavy lifts? Isnt his lower back curved? It doesn't look particularly good to me yet he has a lot to say about form straight lower back etc. His lighter lifts look perfect to me and are something i'll try and replicate.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Been having a look around at deadlift form vids on the internet and had a look at mehdi from stronglifts, what do people think of his form on the his heavy lifts? Isnt his lower back curved? It doesn't look particularly good to me yet he has a lot to say about form straight lower back etc. His lighter lifts look perfect to me and are something i'll try and replicate.


I think most people bend their back on max or close to max deads. Alot of powerlifting and strongman videos seem to have alot of back bending going on.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I think most people bend their back on max or close to max deads. Alot of powerlifting and strongman videos seem to have alot of back bending going on.


Isnt this only upper back rounding though mate which is actually helpful to ecperienced lifters? It looks yo me like mehdi is going against his own advice and rounding his lower back on those heavy lifts. I'm desperately trying to fix any small issues i may have but see all this contradictory sh1t everywhere :laugh:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weight today ummmm - 79.1kg, interesting lol. I hit my target macros exactly and done some cardio so obviously some other factors at work here.

Workout today:

Squat - 120 x 5,5,5 - It's been a while so a nice base to work from.

Pullthrough - 36x 10,10,10

Kroc Rows - L- 28x8,7, R-28x8,6

Hammer Curls - 10x8,8,7

Calf Press - 52x 15,15,13


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Isnt this only upper back rounding though mate which is actually helpful to ecperienced lifters? It looks yo me like mehdi is going against his own advice and rounding his lower back on those heavy lifts. I'm desperately trying to fix any small issues i may have but see all this contradictory sh1t everywhere :laugh:


I have seen a fair few bending their lower back, that's why I don't worry too much now if mine bends a bit. Possibly not the best approach though. Some that are competing at national level or at a higher level don't even use their legs at all


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I have seen a fair few bending their lower back, that's why I don't worry too much now if mine bends a bit. Possibly not the best approach though. Some that are competing at national level or at a higher level don't even use their legs at all


Well looking at the intensity at which he's operating in to execute those heavier lifts, i would say my intensity is similar to this as my heaviest reps are real grinders so it wouldn't surprise me if similarly my form is breaking a bit just like this at max output ...therefore no surprise really that i'm getting back issues.

I see pb videos around the internet where those deadlift reps are coming up real fast and i think to myself 'that kind of looks easy for a max lift/pb, all my pb efforts come up pretty slow'

Perhaps i should always lift at less intensity with light weight and faster reps making 100% sure that my form is nowhere close to being compromised. Easier said than done though when you can manage more weight.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Well looking at the intensity at which he's operating in to execute those heavier lifts, i would say my intensity is similar to this as my heaviest reps are real grinders so it wouldn't surprise me if similarly my form is breaking a bit just like this at max output ...therefore no surprise really that i'm getting back issues.
> 
> I see pb videos around the internet where those deadlift reps are coming up real fast and i think to myself 'that kind of looks easy for a max lift/pb, all my pb efforts come up pretty slow'
> 
> Perhaps i should always lift at less intensity with light weight and faster reps making 100% sure that my form is nowhere close to being compromised. Easier said than done though when you can manage more weight.


If you are getting back issues that are effecting your training makes sense to move weight down a bit and concentrate on form. Not like you are planning on competing in strength events anyway so in the grand scheme of things I can't see 10-20 kg less on deads effecting results too much. Luckily I have had no back issues yet, but my last couple of reps on heavier sets can end up being hacked up and back bent too much so wouldn't be surprised if I hurt my back at some point. But I see pros and people on here doing it much worse than me with no back issues so might just be luck of the draw.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Today's workout,

Flat BB Bench Press (+2.5kg) - 62.5 x 5,5,6

Incline DB Press (+2kg) - 20 x 8,8,8,8

DB Shoulder Press (+2kg) - 16 x 8,8,9

V-bar pushdown - 23 x 10,10,8

Weighted Crunches - 20 x 15,15,15

Enjoying the chest/shoulder focused workouts a lot.

Legs are destroyed today with doms from yesterdays squats. A few weeks off and this is the result lol.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Today's workout,
> 
> Flat BB Bench Press (+2.5kg) - 62.5 x 5,5,6
> 
> ...


Great stuff, mate, weights going up nicely!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Great stuff, mate, weights going up nicely!


Yes mate. Id said that i would be happy to retain a 65kg bench and after dropping cals significantly and a few week off it looks like i'm getting there.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weight today was 79kg so over a week or so in and my weight has actually gone up a tad if anything despite dropping from 3500 to 3000 cals.

I would normally notice a drastic drop in water weight however i have kept my carb intake exactly as it was (plus i've added creatine).

Something pleases me about this, Despite the fact i'm supposed to be targeting a lower weight on the scales.

If the pattern continues then i'll make a small adjustment to my carbs.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Current Macros:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Deadlift - 140 x 5,5,5 - Pretty easy weight it almost feels like im wasting my time but at least my backs intact.

Leg Press (+7kg) - 134 x 10,10

Chinups - BW x 6,6,5,3

Recline DB curls (+2kg) - 10 x 8,5 then 8x5

Felt like junk today. Seems to be the way atm. Feel immense on upper body focused days and feel sh1t and pushed for time on squat and deadlift days


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Current Macros:
> 
> View attachment 123044


nice numbers.

I've relaxed on my diet this week and have been eating 2500-3000 cal and went on the beers last night. No gym at all this week and actually look bigger and leaner. lol. Good ol glycogen replenishment. can't keep this up though. My cold has got worse too. What a ****ty few weeks eh?

I am going to get back to cardio next week and try to avoid weights. Will stick to bike and cross trainer. I started stressing about losing muscle with a calorie deficit and no weights for a month then stopped spazzing out when i thoough, it's a just a month. It's not like my dicks going to fall off


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> nice numbers.
> 
> I've relaxed on my diet this week and have been eating 2500-3000 cal and went on the beers last night. No gym at all this week and actually look bigger and leaner. lol. Good ol glycogen replenishment. can't keep this up though. My cold has got worse too. What a ****ty few weeks eh?
> 
> I am going to get back to cardio next week and try to avoid weights. Will stick to bike and cross trainer. I started stressing about losing muscle with a calorie deficit and no weights for a month then stopped spazzing out when i thoough, it's a just a month. It's not like my dicks going to fall off


Been a sh1tty few weeks for you and me both mate. Thankfully i think i'm beginning to get myself on track. Is your back still knackered?

This has been my day of whacking up the carbs. A nice new york meatball sandwich for lunch. I'm not sure i should be participating in these refeeds given that my cut isnt losing me any weight but fvck it i aint competing for anythin lol.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Been a sh1tty few weeks for you and me both mate. Thankfully i think i'm beginning to get myself on track. Is your back still knackered?
> 
> This has been my day of whacking up the carbs. A nice new york meatball sandwich for lunch. I'm not sure i should be participating in these refeeds given that my cut isnt losing me any weight but fvck it i aint competing for anythin lol.


My back is still sore. I could feel it after yoga and again was sore this morning as i moved on it in my sleep. i'm going to take next week off completely. Welll try my best. I will stick to cardio, yoga and some machine iso work on my legs. I might try some body weight stuff at the end of the week too. shed loads of foam rolling. I was under 80KG the other day so it's not been to bad. Back to cutting again on sunday. Lets see if i can get to 77KG and then the tbol i just ordered might get a run out


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> My back is still sore. I could feel it after yoga and again was sore this morning as i moved on it in my sleep. i'm going to take next week off completely. Welll try my best. I will stick to cardio, yoga and some machine iso work on my legs. I might try some body weight stuff at the end of the week too. shed loads of foam rolling. I was under 80KG the other day so it's not been to bad. Back to cutting again on sunday. Lets see if i can get to 77KG and then the tbol i just ordered might get a run out


Finally coming to the dark side, you won't look back.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

To be honest, i'm not far off where i want to be. I'm short **** and don't want to get too big.

80KG lean is as big as i want to get. So considering i am almost have OK abs now 3KG fat off and 3KG muscle on would be a good mid term target and if anything i will look to lean out slightly from there and try and maintain it the best i can


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> To be honest, i'm not far off where i want to be. I'm short **** and don't want to get too big.
> 
> 80KG lean is as big as i want to get. So considering i am almost have OK abs now 3KG fat off and 3KG muscle on would be a good mid term target and if anything i will look to lean out slightly from there and try and maintain it the best i can


Your strength should go up nicely, will be interesting to see what you deadlift on gear. What lab did you decide on?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Zydex. 75 tbol ed. 25 proviron Ed

Got some clomid and will do a micro pct 25ed

Think that should be fine for my goals


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Zydex. 75 tbol ed. 25 proviron Ed
> 
> Got some clomid and will do a micro pct 25ed
> 
> Think that should be fine for my goals


Get some taurine aswell mate. If you are unlucky and get bad back and calf pumps it will help a bit, even with it mine hurt a fair bit.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Get some taurine aswell mate. If you are unlucky and get bad back and calf pumps it will help a bit, even with it mine hurt a fair bit.


yep it's planned. Will get some supps in too when i go for a bulk.

Bulk nutrition seem alright.

Will get their allinone, zma, taurine and whey. Their testosterone booster for pct and stealthy hiding the tbol :lol:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> yep it's planned. Will get some supps in too when i go for a bulk.
> 
> Bulk nutrition seem alright.
> 
> Will get their allinone, zma, taurine and whey. Their testosterone booster for pct and stealthy hiding the tbol :lol:


Aslong as you aren't going on a major bulk I think she will buy it. I will have to get my hcg hidden in the fridge when I start my cycle.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Aslong as you aren't going on a major bulk I think she will buy it. I will have to get my hcg hidden in the fridge when I start my cycle.


It's the legitimate, legal, testosterone booster from bulk powders honest honey.

I'm going to go hardcore on my arms, really want to get half an inch on my guns at least and bring out my lame delts. Also womens calves could do with doubling.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> It's the legitimate, legal, testosterone booster from bulk powders honest honey.
> 
> I'm going to go hardcore on my arms, really want to get half an inch on my guns at least and bring out my lame delts. Also womens calves could do with doubling.


I am also going to try bring up arms. Going to try train them 4-7 days a week for 8 weeks see if it helps.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

When i was doing a customers version of 5/3/1 customised to upper/lower but with extra chins on deadlift day ,my bis grew more than ever.

I am planning to do calves 4 times a week and arms 3x a week with 2 intensive sessions


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> When i was doing a customers version of 5/3/1 customised to upper/lower but with extra chins on deadlift day ,my bis grew more than ever.
> 
> I am planning to do calves 4 times a week and arms 3x a week with 2 intensive sessions


When i hit the gear next i will also be targetting my twigceps like nothing else.

I'm excited about this pieman :bounce:


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

How's it been going tommy.

Hope your weekends been good!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> How's it been going tommy.
> 
> Hope your weekends been good!


Not bad mate. Been a bit of a naughty boy today with the diet but have cut back on my meal tonight to conpensate. I was out for lunch and couldnt resist a cheescake. I love the stuff. 

Back to work tomorrow anyway, looking forward to my session as its chest focused tomorrow.

How is yourself? You had a good cheat weekend?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Not bad mate. Been a bit of a naughty boy today with the diet but have cut back on my meal tonight to conpensate. I was out for lunch and couldnt resist a cheescake. I love the stuff.
> 
> Back to work tomorrow anyway, looking forward to my session as its chest focused tomorrow.
> 
> How is yourself? You had a good cheat weekend?


i have a few pics of my cheat meal n my journal was a bit extreme.

almost but not quite 2 bags of doritos, 4 choc doughnuts, 1 chips, 2 pizzas, 3 cookies. i felt rough after. still down to 172lbs as of this morning haha  , couldnt manage my carb up on sunday morning though. wasnt hungry all day.

u do chest on its own? have a good session!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Been absent for about a week. Too much going on/going wrong with my house and too bimusy at work so the gym took a backseat last week. Diet was about 85% what i shoukd have been.

Just stuck with the same weights today to see how i coped.

Incline BB Bench Press - 55 x 5,5,5

Flat DB Bench Press - 22 x 8,8,8

OHP - 30 x 8,8,8

Vbar Pushdown - 23x 10,10,10

Lying Leg Raises - BW x 10,10,10

Chucked in some light side raises at the end. Man have i got weak on these having not done them in months.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weight now is 78.3kg Not a great loss yet but still progress.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Weight now is 78.3kg Not a great loss yet but still progress.


What were you last weigh in?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> What were you last weigh in?


79kg i think it was mate. I had actually gained from my starting weight lol. I'll see how i go with some consistent training again and adjust from there.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Hopefully can regain some consistency. Been all over the place of late.

ATG Squat - 120 x 5,5,5

Pullthrough - 17 x 10,10,10

Kroc Rows - 28 x 8,8,8

Hammer Curls - 8 x 12,10,9

Calf press - cant remember, forgot to note it down.

Squats were really fcking tough man. I appear to have lost a bit of strength which isnt surprising really when ive had no consistency the past month. On the positive side though my reps are all low rather than just parallel which is where i was taking the 140kg to. Sure does make a big difference to the difficulty level.


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

your heavier than me!!! 

looks like a good session :thumb:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Hopefully can regain some consistency. Been all over the place of late.
> 
> ATG Squat - 120 x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


What split are you doing at the moment?

Had to google those Kroc rows, they look like dumb bell rows but with a different name?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> your heavier than me!!!
> 
> looks like a good session :thumb:


haha yeah but also a lot fatter :lol:



robdobbie said:


> What split are you doing at the moment?
> 
> Had to google those Kroc rows, they look like dumb bell rows but with a different name?


Yeah mate, similar to db rows but i think with a bit more emphasis on speed on the pull. I hold the db slightly differently also.

I'll post up my current routine shortly mate.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Current split is this. M/W/F

A.

Squat 3x5

GHR/Pullthrough - 3x10

BOR/Kroc Row - 4x6

Hammer curls - 3x8

Calf Press - 3x15

B.

Bench Press/Decline Bench Press- 3x5

Iincline DB Press - 4x8

OHP - 3x8

DB Skullcrushers - 3x10

Weighted Ab crunches - 3x10

optional facepulls

C.

Deadlifts/Rack Pulls - 3x5

Leg Press/Front Squat - 2x10

Chinups - 4x6

Recline DB Curls - 3x8

Toe Press on leg press - 3x15

D.

Incline Bench Press - 3x5

DB Bench Press/Dips - 4x8

DB Shoulder Press - 3x8

Vbar pushdown - 3x10

Leg Raises - 3x10

optional side raises.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

How is the back with deads at the moment?


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

The slow weight loss is probably a good thing, cutting after a cycle I would be concerned if weight took a steep drop.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> How is the back with deads at the moment?


With my sh1t bei g all over the place i havent did them in a while and wont be training them until Monday. The last time out i went light and seemed to be fine so i'll just stick at around 90% infensity.



kingdale said:


> The slow weight loss is probably a good thing, cutting after a cycle I would be concerned if weight took a steep drop.


Yeah mate. I'm not exactly sure what i should be aiming for as apparently fatties like me can go a bit harder on the cutting but i'm content with slow weight loss anyway. Im aiming for around 0.5kg or so per week.

The one thing i've noticed this time is how big an impact carbs have on my weight rather than just calories. Dropping 500cals but keeping carbs the same has resulted in a slow loss. Usually i drop my carbs immediately and see the weight flying off rapidly. (Obviously related to water). I'm Trying to cut this time keeping carbs as high as i can throughout although obviously there will be stages where i need to gradually drop them.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

i have little to base this on, but if you are well within your natty limits, i can't see how cutting hard would result in muscle loss post cycle?

As far as i know newly formed muscle isn't like wet cement.

Not advising you to do this, but i've not seen a convincing argument for this thinking.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> i have little to base this on, but if you are well within your natty limits, i can't see how cutting hard would result in muscle loss post cycle?
> 
> As far as i know newly formed muscle isn't like wet cement.
> 
> Not advising you to do this, but i've not seen a convincing argument for this thinking.


I have seen plenty of threads on here of people cutting after a cycle and asking where their gains have gone and people shrink post cycle at the gym doing the same. Obviously I don't know if their diets are complete rubbish so this may be the reason for losing lots of muscle rather than cutting after a cycle, or if they are out on the lash constantly post cycle. Doing it sensibly are properly might well be totally fine, how ever I want to be a freaky sized mass monster so cutting naturally isnt something I will ever test. I also believe that newer gains are easier to lose then if you have maintained a weight for a while. Confident now I could go on a weekend bender with no food and not lose much weight or strength and gain any lost back i a couple of days, if it did that straight after cycle I would have thought it would be a completely different story. Most of this is based on what I have seen from others so I could well be totally wrong.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

kingdale said:


> I have seen plenty of threads on here of people cutting after a cycle and asking where their gains have gone and people shrink post cycle at the gym doing the same. Obviously I don't know if their diets are complete rubbish so this may be the reason for losing lots of muscle rather than cutting after a cycle, or if they are out on the lash constantly post cycle. Doing it sensibly are properly might well be totally fine, how ever I want to be a freaky sized mass monster so cutting naturally isnt something I will ever test. I also believe that newer gains are easier to lose then if you have maintained a weight for a while. Confident now I could go on a weekend bender with no food and not lose much weight or strength and gain any lost back i a couple of days, if it did that straight after cycle I would have thought it would be a completely different story. Most of this is based on what I have seen from others so I could well be totally wrong.


For a mass monster. I get it. But smaller guy no


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Yeah i've also seen those who lose all their gains.

My own personal experience so far though....well i've hardly had the perfect post cycle. Firstly i dropped off about 1000 cals and got injured, I then went on holiday during which i didnt train, got p1ssed most nights and ate handsomely. Since coming back i've been ill, introduced cardio and then last week i was too busy and had too much problems with my house that i was unable to train.

So after all of this where has it left me so far... I'd say about half way in between where i was before i started my cycle and my peak when i was on cycle (so about 50% strength retained id say). So if all was to have went perfectly then i think i could have kept a good 80-90% of my strength gains.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I keep forgetting to ask. How did pct feel? How did your body react coming off?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I keep forgetting to ask. How did pct feel? How did your body react coming off?


It was no problem at all mate. I didnt notice anything other than bacne becoming quite prominent. No depression or any negative feelings. I felt better than i did on cycle if anything.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> i have little to base this on, but if you are well within your natty limits, i can't see how cutting hard would result in muscle loss post cycle?
> 
> As far as i know newly formed muscle isn't like wet cement.
> 
> Not advising you to do this, but i've not seen a convincing argument for this thinking.


Have a read of this mate, how to 'boost' testosterone

As I'm guessing you know, your macros play a massive in test production, and if you're 'normal' (have natty test levels), doing what they say in that article may only boost your test by an extra 1%, but think about when you're in/just finished PCT and have the test levels of a little girl, reducing your calories is a bad idea.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Have a read of this mate, how to 'boost' testosterone
> 
> As I'm guessing you know, your macros play a massive in test production, and if you're 'normal' (have natty test levels), doing what they say in that article may only boost your test by an extra 1%, but think about when you're in/just finished PCT and have the test levels of a little girl, reducing your calories is a bad idea.


Nice.

I've also got some clomid and DAA to assist


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Nice.
> 
> I've also got some clomid and DAA to assist


I've been reading into DAA a bit and haven't decided to use it or not during pct, is the way it increases test leavels 100% natural? And what do you make of the possible negative effect it could have on the NMDA receptors?

If I do use it, it will be at a low dose.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> I've been reading into DAA a bit and haven't decided to use it or not during pct, is the way it increases test leavels 100% natural? And what do you make of the possible negative effect it could have on the NMDA receptors?
> 
> If I do use it, it will be at a low dose.


It doesn't raise free test, which is the muscle building stuff we go to manufactured test. It's might have a knock on effect in PCT. It's unproved at the moment. I half got it to have an excuses to explain why i've suddenly got a lot bigger to my missus  it says cell voluming on the packaging :lol:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> It doesn't raise free test, which is the muscle building stuff we go to manufactured test. It's might have a knock on effect in PCT. It's unproved at the moment. I half got it to have an excuses to explain why i've suddenly got a lot bigger to my missus  it says cell voluming on the packaging :lol:


Win, win then! :lol:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Just emphasis how you are trying a new training plan and how you are eating loads she will just put the weight gain down to this.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Just emphasis how you are trying a new training plan and how you are eating loads she will just put the weight gain down to this.


That's my plan when people start asking, also tell them I'm on a prohormone cycle.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

robdobbie said:


> That's my plan when people start asking, also tell them I'm on a prohormone cycle.


I'm open with it all apart from some family, not sure what I am going today if I start getting bigger at the start of this cut well they know I am dieting.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I am going to get some more supps at the end of the month. An all in one to save hassle and get some easy calories in. altogether now:

Don't blame in Simon, don't blame in on steroids, don't blame it on gym time

Blame it on the supplements.

I just can't, i just can't, i just can't control my guns


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

If you see your missus on a daily basis then she might not really notice...unless shes super-observant.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Haven't been on here much lately so I'm just catching up on a few journals!

How's your cut going anyway?

Btw I have a new journal, incase you fancy a butchers :tongue:


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> If you see your missus on a daily basis then she might not really notice...unless shes super-observant.


We sleep naked next to her. Part of me would upset she didn't ironically


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Haven't been on here much lately so I'm just catching up on a few journals!
> 
> How's your cut going anyway?
> 
> Btw I have a new journal, incase you fancy a butchers :tongue:


Link?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Haven't been on here much lately so I'm just catching up on a few journals!
> 
> How's your cut going anyway?
> 
> Btw I have a new journal, incase you fancy a butchers :tongue:


Its okay mate. Not where i hoped id be but ive had a sh1tty week last week.

Will have a look out for your journal. Hope things are well mate.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Link?


http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/229855-tom90s-journal.html :thumbup1:



bigtommay said:


> Its okay mate. Not where i hoped id be but ive had a sh1tty week last week.
> 
> Will have a look out for your journal. Hope things are well mate.


I know you said you've retained ~50% of your strength, but what about size? It sounds like you've not had much luck post cycle


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/229855-tom90s-journal.html :thumbup1:
> 
> I know you said you've retained ~50% of your strength, but what about size? It sounds like you've not had much luck post cycle


I havent mate no. Been quite shat

in terms of size. Im currently 8kg heavier than my weight pre cycle. This is with cutting.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Still 8kg after PCT and cutting ain't bad going mate!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Still 8kg after PCT and cutting ain't bad going mate!


Yeah mate. Im content with it. Im only eating 250cals per day more than i was then as well.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Today's workout

Flat BB Bench Press - 62.5 x 5,5,5,5 (extra set)

DB incline press - 20 x 8,8,10 (extra reps)

OHP (+2.5KG) - 32.5 x 8,8,8

DB Skulls - 8 x 10, 10, 8

Ab Crunches (+5kg) - 25 x 15, 15, 15

Felt good. Feeling good on upper chest/shoulder/tri day.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Macros will now be adjusted to 260P 270C 85F with Fibre at around 45g

Should see a bit more weight loss now with the reduction in carbs.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Macros will now be adjusted to 260P 270C 85F with Fibre at around 45g
> 
> Should see a bit more weight loss now with the reduction in carbs.


That's more than my planed bulking macros on gear lol


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> That's more than my planed bulking macros on gear lol


Lol, funny how it all works. Whats the most calories youve ever bulked on mate?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

i've never bulked per se ever. Believe it or not. i just do my training and relax and get on with life

i train and eat, when i son't like how i look i cut.

This will probably be my first ever bulk where i track and monitor everything ever.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

What sources are you using to get that fibre? I swear if I don't have a bowl of All Bran everyday, I don't poo.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Wish I had that problem sick of wiping my @rse.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> i've never bulked per se ever. Believe it or not. i just do my training and relax and get on with life
> 
> i train and eat, when i son't like how i look i cut.
> 
> This will probably be my first ever bulk where i track and monitor everything ever.


I do love yout outlook mate lol. Wish i coukd be the same. If i didnt track anything though i font think id stop eating and id just be cutting all the time :laugh:



Tom90 said:


> What sources are you using to get that fibre? I swear if I don't have a bowl of All Bran everyday, I don't poo.


I dunno mate. I have 4-5meals per day with variants at each meal to hit the same macros. I pre-calculate set meals using myfitness pal. I use lot of porridge, basmati rice, WHITE tortilla wraps and new potatoes for my meals. I eat green beans and carrots mainly as veg.



kingdale said:


> Wish I had that problem sick of wiping my @rse.


Tell me about it mate. Im about 4x per day standard.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Tell me about it mate. Im about 4x per day standard.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Today

Rack Pulls - 160 x 5,5,5

Front Squat - 80 x 10,10

Chinups - BW x 6,6,6,3

Recline DB Curls - 8 x 8,8,8


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Today
> 
> Rack Pulls - 160 x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


What do you prefer, rack pulls or deads? I've only recently started doing RPs but find they hit my lower back a lot better than deads


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Every time I have rack pulled I have managed less than I dead, I must do it wrong.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> What do you prefer, rack pulls or deads? I've only recently started doing RPs but find they hit my lower back a lot better than deads


I'm not too sure yet. The rack pull weight wasn't too challenging for me so i'll hsve to wait until it's near ball busting and then compare. I actually felt like it was working my traps more than my lower back although my lower back was still pumped.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Every time I have rack pulled I have managed less than I dead, I must do it wrong.


Thats quite unusual is it not? Maybe your weakest deadlift part is the the starting point of the rack pull? I just found the rom to be really short and therefore easier.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Thats quite unusual is it not? Maybe your weakest deadlift part is the the starting point of the rack pull? I just found the rom to be really short and therefore easier.


Only tried them a couple of times maybe I was just having off days then by coincidence but they definitely felt worse than deads so I never did them again.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You should be able to rack pull MUCH more than you deadlift.

If you are haven't done it before there will be some neural learning before your strength catches up.

In thinking of adding in rack pulls but the lowest setting is too high in my gym


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You should be able to rack pull MUCH more than you deadlift.
> 
> If you are haven't done it before there will be some neural learning before your strength catches up.
> 
> In thinking of adding in rack pulls but the lowest setting is too high in my gym


Yeah i had to stand on top of some plates to get just below knee level lol.


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> You should be able to rack pull MUCH more than you deadlift.
> 
> If you are haven't done it before there will be some neural learning before your strength catches up.
> 
> In thinking of adding in rack pulls but the lowest setting is too high in my gym


Migh try then again at some point, it was probably just them being new to me.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

On the scales this morning - 77.9kg coming down slowly but surely.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Started the ECA today. PreWorkouts etc dont ever do anything for me but these things have had me wired. About 5 and a half hours later i think the effects are beginning to wear off. Will see how they work for me on a leg day as ive been struggling with leg day lately.

Todays workout. Just trying to keep it consistent. More of a feeler for next time out.

BB incline BP - 55 x 5,5,5

Flat DB Bench Press - 22 x 8,8,8

DB shoulder press - 18 x 8,8,6

Vbar pushdown - 23 x 10,10,11

Side Raises - 8 x 10, 8

Lying leg raises - 6 x 8,8 bw x 10


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Try ECA before fasted cardio, you'll think you're having a heart attack! :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Try ECA before fasted cardio, you'll think you're having a heart attack! :lol:


Haha if i even did fasted cardio mate. Life and days are too short to be wasting my time on that lol.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I have an ECA and a double shot capuccino every day. I am always sweating like **** when i arrive at work


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I have an ECA and a double shot capuccino every day. I am always sweating like **** when i arrive at work


:laugh: i sweat without it anyway. Bit seriously, wow this stuff is great. I feel focused rather than my usual sleepy plus my appetite really has been supressed. I could barely finish my lunch today and that never happens never mind on restricted calories.

Im thinking of taking my cals down lower. On close inspection i'm on 2750 just now and weight loss is still pretty slow. 78kg this morning so actually moved up a bit.

You reckon i could drop this even more?

At present im around 255p 260c 80-85f. Still real high on the bodyfat around hips/stomach. Some slight definition showing on quads when flexed though.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> :laugh: i sweat without it anyway. Bit seriously, wow this stuff is great. I feel focused rather than my usual sleepy plus my appetite really has been supressed. I could barely finish my lunch today and that never happens never mind on restricted calories.
> 
> Im thinking of taking my cals down lower. On close inspection i'm on 2750 just now and weight loss is still pretty slow. 78kg this morning so actually moved up a bit.
> 
> ...


I don't expect you to follow my diet, but seriously just have a day or two, where you cut out carbs as much as you can until dinner and have a small portion then. Milk the ECA whilst you can, the effects reduce over time.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I don't expect you to follow my diet, but seriously just have a day or two, where you cut out carbs as much as you can until dinner and have a small portion then. Milk the ECA whilst you can, the effects reduce over time.


Could well be a possibility now. So you reckon just stick to the same but take a couple of days as low carb as i can go? Just keep it simple. I could do this on my off days.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Could well be a possibility now. So you reckon just stick to the same but take a couple of days as low carb as i can go? Just keep it simple. I could do this on my off days.


precisely. 2 days keep the pro and fat the same. and drop the carbs to 100g. That will save 320g of cho 1320 calories, which is a theoretically an two extra pounds lost in 5 weeks. or a stone and a half over 12 months.

It maybe end up being more or less depending on how you react. Coupled with the ECA and hopefully more energy going into the gym it will be a lot more.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> precisely. 2 days keep the pro and fat the same. and drop the carbs to 100g. That will save 320g of cho 1320 calories, which is a theoretically an two extra pounds lost in 5 weeks. or a stone and a half over 12 months.
> 
> It maybe end up being more or less depending on how you react. Coupled with the ECA and hopefully more energy going into the gym it will be a lot more.


awesome mate cheers. Obviously when dropping a carb source theres a certain amount of fat and protein that goes with that. Do you just treat this as nominal?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> awesome mate cheers. Obviously when dropping a carb source theres a certain amount of fat and protein that goes with that. Do you just treat this as nominal?


so long as your overall macros are good. It will just mean more fat loss


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> so long as your overall macros are good. It will just mean more fat loss


Yeah well i'll strip the carbs out of my first two meals of the day on off days and report back the macros.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

.... Would be 225P 105C 67F which i think is about 860 csls per day less.

That look okay?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> .... Would be 225P 105C 67F which i think is about 860 csls per day less.
> 
> That look okay?


on two days? of course, not a single issue at all (maybe a little more hunger in the afternoon  )


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> on two days? of course, not a single issue at all (maybe a little more hunger in the afternoon  )


Its essentially the same calorific change as i'd get if i changed to 2500 every day.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Its essentially the same calorific change as i'd get if i changed to 2500 every day.


I have a theory (lol bro science) that your metabolism stays closer to your highest calorie day than the weekly average. Or at least higher than the average of the net calories


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I have a theory (lol bro science) that your metabolism stays closer to your highest calorie day than the weekly average. Or at least higher than the average of the net calories


So on the basis that weekly cals are equal. You believe its better to have high and low days rather than every day equal?

If so, is this based off personal experience?

Ive juggled slightly before but ive never dropped such a high number of carbs between one day and the next so it shall be interesting to see


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> So on the basis that weekly cals are equal. You believe its better to have high and low days rather than every day equal?
> 
> If so, is this based off personal experience?
> 
> Ive juggled slightly before but ive never dropped such a high number of carbs between one day and the next so it shall be interesting to see


Personal experience and what i've seen other guys do. In fact on the iron addicts forum where i got the routine you are doing from.

Give it a go and see. Worse case scenarios you get the same results as eating 2.5K cals with benefit of having a day or two where you eat like a man 

Science is pretty confirming that metabolism is linked to the volume of food more than the frequency. However things like metabolism don't change quickly, it's a gradual taper. So by having high days, its tops it up.

For example post gear and back to natty test levels, was your maintenance higher than it was before? Obviously you have more muscle, but factor that in any BMR calculator and I'd bet there is a discrepancy still.

When i get in 'real' shape, my book will be out in all good bookstores


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Personal experience and what i've seen other guys do. In fact on the iron addicts forum where i got the routine you are doing from.
> 
> Give it a go and see. Worse case scenarios you get the same results as eating 2.5K cals with benefit of having a day or two where you eat like a man
> 
> ...


When you say a day or so high cals. Do you mean i should have a day higher than my current 2750?

I kinfmd of find it hard to say about maintenance between on and off cycle because right from the tail end of my cycle ive been continually dropping calories. I was esti g upwards of 4000 cals per day and that has gradually noe dropped down to 2750 at present over a few months.

What i csn say though is that pre cycle i was eating 2750 cals and was 70.9kg and not gaining off that whereas now i'm back at 2750cals at 78kg and it feels like it may be (not sure) close to maintenance as weight loss is slow.

What that means though, i dont know lol.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> When you say a day or so high cals. Do you mean i should have a day higher than my current 2750?
> 
> I kinfmd of find it hard to say about maintenance between on and off cycle because right from the tail end of my cycle ive been continually dropping calories. I was esti g upwards of 4000 cals per day and that has gradually noe dropped down to 2750 at present over a few months.
> 
> ...


If i was you, keep it at 2750 and have a few low days and see what happens. I expect decent fat loss. Who knows until you do it.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> If i was you, keep it at 2750 and have a few low days and see what happens. I expect decent fat loss. Who knows until you do it.


Yeah i will do and see how it goes. I'm in no real hurry anyway and dont want to damage my lifts any more anyway.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Today:

Squats (+2.5kg) - 122.5 x 5,5,4

Pullthrough (+3kg) - 20x 10,10,10

Kroc Rows (+2kg) - 30 x 6,6,6,6

Recline curls (+2kg) - 10 x 8,8,6

Calf press- couple of 20 rep sets.

Man those squats are getting tough.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

This fvcking eca :lol: On off days i don't feel like eating much.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weight today. 77.7kg, -0.2kg from last tues.

I start adding in low days this week. Hope to hit 77.0-77.2 next week.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Weight today. 77.7kg, -0.2kg from last tues.
> 
> I start adding in low days this week. Hope to hit 77.0-77.2 next week.


ypu call that cutting, thats' not even a turn 

talking of which................................


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> ypu call that cutting, thats' not even a turn
> 
> talking of which................................


Lol my aim is to get around 0.5kg per week off. I know i can probably shift more when this fat but i dont have the best experience when it comes to cutting. I went to fast last time i did it and lost a lot of strength.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout.

Flat BB Bench (+2.5kg) - 65 x 5,5,5

Inc DB Bench Press (+2kg) - 22 x 8,8,7,5

OHP (+2.5kg) 35 x 8,7,6

DB skulls - 8 x 10,10,10 (target hit, 10s next time)

Abs will be tonight.

This was a huge session for me. While 65 is pathetic to most this was my goal post cycle to be able to straight set 65. Pre cycle this was my 1rm. To hit this goal while cutting im delighted.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Todays workout.
> 
> Flat BB Bench (+2.5kg) - 65 x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Nice work kiddo. 67.5 coming up


----------



## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Todays workout.
> 
> Flat BB Bench (+2.5kg) - 65 x 5,5,5
> 
> ...


Fantastic work, mate. Really chuffed for you!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Nice work kiddo. 67.5 coming up


Thanks mate. Yup thats nmthe next goal. Although i'll continue as i've been doing recently and try and progress by going 65x5 (4) first. I think this has worked pretty well for me.



Monkey skeleton said:


> Fantastic work, mate. Really chuffed for you!


Cheers mate. Still a mile away from your upper body power though!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

That's it mate. Slowly and surely on a cut.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

So this my first low calorie day and so far my diet has been ermmm .... 2 protein shakes.

Oh dear! Surprisingly i dont feel hungry yet though.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> So this my first low calorie day and so far my diet has been ermmm .... 2 protein shakes.
> 
> Oh dear! Surprisingly i dont feel hungry yet though.


I don't think I'd be able to function, that's around 400 calories right? :lol:

Any recent pics?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I don't think I'd be able to function, that's around 400 calories right? :lol:
> 
> Any recent pics?


About 300 for me mate. I was actually okay today up until about 6.30, just had dinner and i'm still starving. Going to be a tough night.

No recent pics mate. I'm way too fat atm and would rather not look at em. Whoever said eat as much as you can on cycle obviously never had my appetite.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> About 300 for me mate. I was actually okay today up until about 6.30, just had dinner and i'm still starving. Going to be a tough night.
> 
> No recent pics mate. I'm way too fat atm and would rather not look at em. *Whoever said eat as much as you can on cycle obviously never had my appetite.*


Hahahahaha, I know that feel. Lean bulks for me from now on. As soon as I get abs, I'll do my best to hold onto them.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Dem scales today told me 77.1kg not sure if i trust them. Will see where i am officially at the weekend.

In terms of gym. Today was the nasty workout of the 4. I feel physically ill with this one.

Rack Pulls (+2.5kg) - 162.5 x 5,5,5 - Personal Best

ATG Front Squats (+10kg) - 90 x 8,7 - Personal Best

reached for the sick bag here..

Chinups - BW x 6,6,6,6 (target hit - weighted chins next time)

Hammer Curls (+2kg) - 10 x 8,6,5

Leg Press Calves - 79 x 15,15,15


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Dem scales today told me 77.1kg not sure if i trust them. Will see where i am officially at the weekend.
> 
> In terms of gym. Today was the nasty workout of the 4. I feel physically ill with this one.
> 
> ...


Awesome work mate. Really good lifting


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

That's a huge front squat, mate. Great work!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> That's a huge front squat, mate. Great work!


Agreed. I feel threatened


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Was steaming along great today then i just buckled at shoulder press lol. Think it was through working out two days in a row and having sore traps.

Inc BB Bench Press - 55 x 5,5,5,5 (extra set)

Flat DB Bench Press (+2KG) - 24 x 8,8,8,8

DB shoulder Press - 18 x 8,6,5

Vbar pushdown (+4kg) - 27 x 8,7 then 18x14

Leg raises - 6x 8,8,7 (more reps)

DB lateral raises - 8 x 10, 7 then 6 x 12


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Current Condition.



Still fat but i'm coming down gradually and increasing strength which was the main objective.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

You're definitely leaner than you make out, ya monkey!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> You're definitely leaner than you make out, ya monkey!


The double biceps pose is assisting with holding my lower belly up!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

As Tom said. Mate. That's not 'fat'. I was far worse when I came back from Boston. 10 weeks till perfection at most


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> As Tom said. Mate. That's not 'fat'. I was far worse when I came back from Boston. 10 weeks till perfection at most


I'm going on Layne norton principle of 1% per week and preserving strength (really into all his stuff) so targeting around 76.5 next week depending on where i'm at tomorrow.

Ps. I was inspired by your artwork mate. Had to get an app as well


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I'm going on Layne norton principle of 1% per week and preserving strength (really into all his stuff) so targeting around 76.5 next week depending on where i'm at tomorrow.
> 
> Ps. I was inspired by your artwork mate. Had to get an app as well


I like layne. That's a not bad rule of the thumb. When you are above 13% I think you can go a litter harder.

The best cutting diet is always the one you can stick to.

I need to slow down on the diet at the moment. I have awoken a demon in my belly


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I like layne. That's a not bad rule of the thumb. When you are above 13% I think you can go a litter harder.
> 
> The best cutting diet is always the one you can stick to.
> 
> I need to slow down on the diet at the moment. I have awoken a demon in my belly


Haha i struggle to stick to anything food related so any means of being able to eat as much as i can suits me lol.

Youre maybe similar to me in that repsect mate once on a surplus i find i have more cravings despite the fact i'm eating more.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Looking good my friend, and lifting good too! lil ****!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Looking good my friend, and lifting good too! lil ****!


I'll be happier when i shift the stomach fat. Its not as clear from that pic as a relaxed one. I hope to be at a good place by atound 75kg.

Lifting i'm happy with as well as my strength appears up to par (by my low standards). I'm a little dissapointed by a few things such as my shoulders etc which have lost the 'on cycle' shape but something to work on and happy in general with how things are going now considering post pct wasnt great.

How about you mate? Hows the recomping coming along? I'll need to pop into that journal more often. Theres a few beasts in there right enough. :laugh:


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## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Looking leaner mate, good work.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

kingdale said:


> Looking leaner mate, good work.


Cheers mate. Wont stop til i'm shredded.......and 60kg :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> The double biceps pose is assisting with holding my lower belly up!


I lol'd


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I'll be happier when i shift the stomach fat. Its not as clear from that pic as a relaxed one. I hope to be at a good place by atound 75kg.
> 
> Lifting i'm happy with as well as my strength appears up to par (by my low standards). I'm a little dissapointed by a few things such as my shoulders etc which have lost the 'on cycle' shape but something to work on and happy in general with how things are going now considering post pct wasnt great.
> 
> How about you mate? Hows the recomping coming along? I'll need to pop into that journal more often. Theres a few beasts in there right enough. :laugh:


The recomp has already served me well in that its forced me to have a long hard look at myself, and it's not a pretty sight! Lol I really believed that over the last year I had finally managed to add some muscle, well, maybe 1/4 of a stone, which is fvck all, but it was something. But I now think that it's probably just fat and I'm still (somehow) pretty much the same weight I was when I did my Blackbelt, 7 years ago. I'm really starting to wonder weather health issues are holding me back on the growth front.

But, strength is coming on well, on lower body at least. Got some good PR's recently and feel there's more to come, though like yourself, I'm struggling to add much strength up top, though having said that, my dips are coming on well, possibly because they're a relatively new exercise to me.

But I'm enjoying the recomp, and am looking forward to getting some ab's back. I've cut my cal's to 2000 a day and so far haven't felt any loss in performance, if anything I feel a bit better as I've cut out all the [email protected] and haven't eaten any chocolate for a week, which is amazing for me! Lol


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Cheers mate. Wont stop til i'm shredded.......and 60kg :laugh:


I'm actually aiming for 63kg or below by the end of the recomp! Lol


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> The recomp has already served me well in that its forced me to have a long hard look at myself, and it's not a pretty sight! Lol I really believed that over the last year I had finally managed to add some muscle, well, maybe 1/4 of a stone, which is fvck all, but it was something. But I now think that it's probably just fat and I'm still (somehow) pretty much the same weight I was when I did my Blackbelt, 7 years ago. I'm really starting to wonder weather health issues are holding me back on the growth front.
> 
> But, strength is coming on well, on lower body at least. Got some good PR's recently and feel there's more to come, though like yourself, I'm struggling to add much strength up top, though having said that, my dips are coming on well, possibly because they're a relatively new exercise to me.
> 
> But I'm enjoying the recomp, and am looking forward to getting some ab's back. I've cut my cal's to 2000 a day and so far haven't felt any loss in performance, if anything I feel a bit better as I've cut out all the [email protected] and haven't eaten any chocolate for a week, which is amazing for me! Lol


I dont know if ive ever seen any pictures of you mate but should you not be increasing the calories to get some serious mass on first then cut sensibly? Or are you holding too much fat that you need it off first. If so then i know exactly how you feel as ive been there yo-yoing getting big and fat then cutting back and ending up ripped but skin and bones. There were few problems there though for me mainly my training and also my diet and cutting knowledge. Thankfully simon helped me get my training on track and ive picked up bits of knowledge from the forum etc as well as a jump start from aas. Training definitely isnt your problem though, i actually think your stength to weight ratio is exceptionally good. Probably is just a case of getting into good shape then bulking sensibly cutting out as much junk as you can. (Im terrible for the chocolate as well mate. I love that marvellous creations chocolate).

whats a typical days food for you mate? Apokgies if you posted it and ive missed it.



Monkey skeleton said:


> I'm actually aiming for 63kg or below by the end of the recomp! Lol


Haha you're a little bit shorter than me though are you not?


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

There's some pics of me on the first page of the recomp thread, mine are the ones that look like they're of a child recently rescued from a Chinese orphanage. Lol

I'm still well in the area that 90%of people would say keep bulking, but as I'm not really gaining any muscle I figure there's no harm in taking a month out to cut the small amount of fat I've gained. Especially as so far I'm still hitting PR's. 

I'll post up a typical days food in my journal to save me clogging yours up, but I don't think my diet is too bad, though its definitely not perfect.

And yeah, chocolate is gooooood. I've been known to demolish an entire chocolate orange after my tea, which is a nice quick extra 700-800 cal's. in fact I've had one along with a large Toblorone sat on my bedside table since Father's Day, but not one piece has passed my lips in the last week! 

At 5'7" I'm shorter than most people, mate! Lol


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> There's some pics of me on the first page of the recomp thread, mine are the ones that look like they're of a child recently rescued from a Chinese orphanage. Lol
> 
> I'm still well in the area that 90%of people would say keep bulking, but as I'm not really gaining any muscle I figure there's no harm in taking a month out to cut the small amount of fat I've gained. Especially as so far I'm still hitting PR's.
> 
> ...


Had a look mate and you look in pretty good nick id say. Can see abs etc and vascular in areas. Id say your leaner than me overall. You obviously hold fat at the back most which is what i think youve said on your journal also. Doing the recomp and working on diet is probably a sound idea. Will you be doing any cardio?

On the chocolate...i shouldnt admit but i had two ripple bars with a cuppa last night after a single chicken breast. Hit all my macros still though  lol.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weighed in this morning at 77.0kg so came in at the lower range of my target. Happy with that.

Aiming for around 76.3-76.5.next week.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Good work with the weight loss, bud. 

With regards to cardio, I've just strained my calf half way through my jog today. Can barely walk now, SCORE!!! Lol










Took me half an hour to limp home, but at least the views were nice.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Good work with the weight loss, bud.
> 
> With regards to cardio, I've just strained my calf half way through my jog today. Can barely walk now, SCORE!!! Lol
> 
> ...


Nice! Although a bit of a ****ty day though huh lol.

Ive hardly ate so far today. Had some eggs and a protein shake. Think i'll tuck into a meat pizzs for lunch then hit the old macros this evening.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

More pic whoring. Shows that i actually do have some way to go with the belly fat.

Took these in case i entered one of the comps but think i missed the boat so just post here instead and show my artwork :laugh:


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> More pic whoring. Shows that i actually do have some way to go with the belly fat.
> 
> Took these in case i entered one of the comps but think i missed the boat so just post here instead and show my artwork :laugh:
> 
> View attachment 127212


Still don't look like you're carrying too much fat, mate, especially compared to a lot I've seen. I'd say you're looking pretty good, apart from the hair. If I'd known you were ginger I'd have never spoke to you! Lol

I've just cracked, food wise. Was up at 6:00, been for my jog, had my shake and oats, and that's been it. Till 5 mins ago, when I shoved a load of nachos cheddar and jalapeños in my gob.

I regret NOTHING!!!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

This mornings workout.

Squats - 122.5 x 5,5,5 (extra rep)

GHR - BW x 10,10,10

Kroc Rows (+2kg) - 32 x 6,6,6,6

Recline DB Curls - 10 x 8,8,7

Calf Press Machine - 93 x 15,13,10

Squats are getting really difficult. I needed a big rest for my final set and also video'd it to check depth and although it was the last set i'm not getting quite as much depth as i'd like so i'm considering deloading a bit until i'm able to get right down.

All in all though a great session.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> This mornings workout.
> 
> Squats - 122.5 x 5,5,5 (extra rep)
> 
> ...


A good idea when you are about to plateau is to switch to ramped sets. 105 x 5, 115 x 5, 125x 5,

Good lifting mate.

I am going to go for 125KG x 5 (x3) tomorrow


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> This mornings workout.
> 
> Squats - 122.5 x 5,5,5 (extra rep)
> 
> ...


Nice lifting buddy, are you going to post up the vid?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> A good idea when you are about to plateau is to switch to ramped sets. 105 x 5, 115 x 5, 125x 5,
> 
> Good lifting mate.
> 
> I am going to go for 125KG x 5 (x3) tomorrow


I might do that mate. I'll see how things are feeling next time around. I just notice that it feels heavy off the rack now. When i was lifting 140 juiced it didnt feel as heavy off the rack :laugh:

Good luck with the 125 mate. I'm sure you'll have it nailed!



Monkey skeleton said:


> Nice lifting buddy, are you going to post up the vid?


Cheers mate. I could post it i suppose but its not the most gripping viewing as its about knee level and below lol. I could be lifting 20kg and nobody would be any wiser :laugh:


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Cheers mate. I could post it i suppose but its not the most gripping viewing as its about knee level and below lol. I could be lifting 20kg and nobody would be any wiser :laugh:


Sounds like a confession! Lol


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Sounds like a confession! Lol


Haha no no i promise 

I'll try and get myself a mask and take some full squat videos lol. I'll look a right tit in the gym though :laugh:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

76.8kg midweek. Another 0.3kg to go for this week and i've hit target.

Todays workout:

Flat BB Bench Press - 65x5,5,5,4 (extra set added)

DB incline Bench Press - 22 x 8,8,8,7 (increase in reps)

OHP - 35x6, 30x 7,5 (hit burnout)

DB Skullcrushers (+2kg) - 10x8,6 drop set 6x8

Ab Crunches (+5kg) - 30x15,15,15

Felt like i was struggling a bit today. Had more difficulty managing bench press and like my last chest/shoulder/tri session i seemed to burnout by the time i got to shoulders. I guess this is to be partly expected.

Still very pleased that i'm still managing to push those same weights and more.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You do an extra set of bench and wonder why your shoulders are burnt out


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You do an extra set of bench and wonder why your shoulders are burnt out


:laugh: precisely it haha. I think if id gone to 67.5 though i wouldve got the same effect. I struggled with a few sets mainly the 2nd. When i made my grip width a bit narrower for 3rd and 4th it was a bit easier.

Any tips on best grip width? Should i grip whatever allows me to push most weight?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> :laugh: precisely it haha. I think if id gone to 67.5 though i wouldve got the same effect. I struggled with a few sets mainly the 2nd. When i made my grip width a bit narrower for 3rd and 4th it was a bit easier.
> 
> Any tips on best grip width? Should i grip whatever allows me to push most weight?


yes and no.

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. Pushing more weight or focusing on a muscle.

when you stall you can do either two options

1. deload and change hand positioning

2. deload and change rep scheme

just treat them as different tool.

when i do pull ups i always change grips in between sets to get more reps. but bench is a little different


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Whatever builds the better chest would be my answer :laugh: so probably elements of both are important in a way.

I narrowed my grip allowing me to engage triceps more and push the weight with a bit more ease.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout. (I'm a stupid cvnt)

Deadlifts - 140 x 5,5 (easy without straps) so i go upto 160 get to 4 reps and my lower backs killing me. Called it a day. Its light 80% deads or rack pulls from now on.

Leg Press - 107x12, 40 decided to copy @Tom90 with a 40repper lol.

Lat Pulldown - 59x6,6,6,5

Hammer Curls - 10 x 8,8,8 drop set to 6 and repped til my arms bled...well nearly.

Calf fluff - they were done from leg press high reps tbh.

i enjoyed the leg press, one thing i noticed when doing the high reps that ive never noticed before is that they are actually working my inside quad...ie teardrop. I know this because it was pumped to fvck with blood. My quads are dominant on the outside from squatting so this was good to see and i'm thinking i might utilise the leg press more often for this.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

It's awesome man, I bet you'll do it again :lol:

I think the theory behind it is forcing blood into the muscle and expanding fascia over time. I'm not 100%, but that's my take on it. My mate does it and he's coached by an IFBB Pro..


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> It's awesome man, I bet you'll do it again :lol:
> 
> I think the theory behind it is forcing blood into the muscle and expanding fascia over time. I'm not 100%, but that's my take on it. My mate does it and he's coached by an IFBB Pro..


was a nice change yeah mate.

Is your mate at an advanced level?

I like to do bits like this now and again for a shock but wouldnt do it frequently lol.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

On another note. My hams are still sore from introducing GHRs on Monday. These hit a new location on the ham as well it seems.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> was a nice change yeah mate.
> 
> Is your mate at an advanced level?
> 
> I like to do bits like this now and again for a shock but wouldnt do it frequently lol.


He's dieting down for a comp, he'll look awesome shredded. I can't remember his weight but he's between 15-16st, 23, about 5'10". He's an absolute tank, strong as fvck too!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> He's dieting down for a comp, he'll look awesome shredded. I can't remember his weight but he's between 15-16st, 23, about 5'10". He's an absolute tank, strong as fvck too!


Sounds like a beast for his age man.

At 23 as well i expect he'll now be considering his first cycle? :laugh:


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Sounds like a beast for his age man.
> 
> *At 23 as well i expect he'll now be considering his first cycle? :laugh:*


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah maybe, it could be difficult to convince him..


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> On another note. My hams are still sore from introducing GHRs on Monday. These hit a new location on the ham as well it seems.


You never forget your first ghr DOMS


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You never forget your first ghr DOMS


A real good exercise. I was surprisef with how much control i had over them actually. I think i'll be doing them weighted soon enough. I'm going to slow them right down first though to ensure i have total control before i end up smashing my face up :laugh:


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> A real good exercise. I was surprisef with how much control i had over them actually. I think i'll be doing them weighted soon enough. I'm going to slow them right down first though to ensure i have total control before i end up smashing my face up :laugh:


are you mental, weighted GHRs. my hammies hurt at the thought of it


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> are you mental, weighted GHRs. my hammies hurt at the thought of it


The answer to that is probably yes lol. I'll work on the bodyweight ones for a while and see. I was able to lower myself pretty easily on every rep which i thought was pretty good for a first effort.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I don't appear to be shifting weight as easily this week. Been floating around 76.8-76.9kg every time ive checked this week and my target was 76.5 so ive increased cardio a bit doing hiit last night - 6x30sec full pelt sprints with 2 min recovery periods. Then this morbing dare i say it was 40mins fasted cardio on the bike whike watching tv. (I hope to god i dont find myself doing this too often...boring as fvck and feels 75% less productive taking about 3x longer lol).

Due to the slow rate of loss i'll be looking to make another drop in the calories next week.


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Just had a quick read through this mate, good luck with the cut, strong lower half too!

Subbed


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

faultline said:


> Just had a quick read through this mate, good luck with the cut, strong lower half too!
> 
> Subbed


Hey mate, thanks! And thanks for dropping in.

Lol i feel kind of weak on lower half again as i'm a bit below where i was on cycle but on the plus side i'm a good bit stronger than i was pre cycle.

This cut should be fine if i can just resist temptation :laugh:


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Starting same routine as you tomorrow, mate. Feeling quite excited to be doing something new, and think the extra recovery time should do me good too.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Carbs under 100g sat and sunday and some cardio last night as well:



Mission accomplished!

Next stop 75.8-76.0kg


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Carbs under 100g sat and sunday and some cardio last night as well:
> 
> View attachment 128056
> 
> ...


Good work mate. What sort of cal's are you on at the moment, think I need to up my game to keep up with the other lads on the recomp.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Good work mate. What sort of cal's are you on at the moment, think I need to up my game to keep up with the other lads on the recomp.


I've been doing high and low days with high carb on workout days and lower carbs around 100g on non training days. Weekends i loosen it uo a bit and just make sure i hit protein target. My average calories across the week were about 2500per day but now that i'm finding that tough i'm dropping them again probably averaging 2000-2200 as of today. Protein is staying at 250g per day.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout went pretty well.

BB incline Bench Press (+2.5kg) - 57.5x5,5,3 (and a half...fvcker!)

Flat DB Bench Press (+2kg) - 26x8,7,6,6

DB Shoulder Press - 18x8,8,6 (increase in reps)

VBar pushdown - 27x10,10,10 (target hit, increase weight next time)

Ab machine - 41x15,15,10

Side Lateral Raises - 8x10,8 (increase in reps)


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Todays workout went pretty well.
> 
> BB incline Bench Press (+2.5kg) - 57.5x5,5,3 (and a half...fvcker!)
> 
> ...


Nice. 60kg x2x5 next time?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Nice. 60kg x2x5 next time?


I think it would be a stretch. 5th rep of 2nd set today was a ball buster for me lol. I think it'd maybe be a PB for incline if i was able to get it.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Right...75.8kg this morning. So i've already hit the lower end of my target for this week.

And man did i feel 75.8 in the gym today. Being in a rush and off eca for a break didnt help.

I lowered my squat significantly for two reasons. 1. My backs still injured from deadlifts which is a problem at the lower poi t of the squat. 2. Concentrate on form and going low enough.

Squat - 80x8,100x8, 110x5,5,5

GHR - BW x 10,10,10

Kroc Rows (+2kg) - 34x6,6,6 l5, r4

Recline DB Curls - 10x8,8,6 (lost a rep)

No time for calves today.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Right...75.8kg this morning. So i've already hit the lower end of my target for this week.
> 
> And man did i feel 75.8 in the gym today. Being in a rush and off eca for a break didnt help.
> 
> ...


I know how you feel about squats, I've just lowered mine by 5kg, but at least I'm ATG again, could try lowering your warm up reps though? My squat session yesterday was

60x5

100x3

110x1

115x5 x3

Definitely felt warmed up before my working sets


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> I know how you feel about squats, I've just lowered mine by 5kg, but at least I'm ATG again, could try lowering your warm up reps though? My squat session yesterday was
> 
> 60x5
> 
> ...


Those werent warm ups :laugh: i chucked them in to compensate for squatting light :lol:

I warmed up 20,40,60 lol.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

One for the juice experts out there. What would you go for from the following:

Fuerza test c

Fuerza T400

WC Test e or c


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> One for the juice experts out there. What would you go for from the following:
> 
> Fuerza test c
> 
> ...


I've got 20ml of T400 at home  Not that I can comment on how good it is yet, so this is a pointless post..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> I've got 20ml of T400 at home  Not that I can comment on how good it is yet, so this is a pointless post..


I've been reading its good stuff mate. Im not surr if the multi esters are of any real benefit over cyp alone. I'm thinking of running with tbol if that makes any difference.

Fuerza works out better for 600mg per week and WC better for 500mg per week. But nothing much in it in terms of pocket damage.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I've been reading its good stuff mate. Im not surr if the multi esters are of any real benefit over cyp alone. I'm thinking of running with tbol if that makes any difference.
> 
> Fuerza works out better for 600mg per week and WC better for 500mg per week. But nothing much in it in terms of pocket damage.


Me either, the prop is such a low amount it will make hardly any difference, the only reason I went for it over test-e was because I thought it might get to work slightly faster. I'm going with 40mg fuerza dbol for 6 weeks.

Have you decided your next cycle then? What's the length and doeses?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> One for the juice experts out there. What would you go for from the following:
> 
> Fuerza test c
> 
> ...


I've not tried any of those bit I've always wanted to try WC.

I'd probably go for the T400 since it doesn't have the undecanoate ester, it'll get to work quicker and be out of your system sooner. Out of interest, what are you hoping to get out of your next cycle mate?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Me either, the prop is such a low amount it will make hardly any difference, the only reason I went for it over test-e was because I thought it might get to work slightly faster. I'm going with 40mg fuerza dbol for 6 weeks.
> 
> Have you decided your next cycle then? What's the length and doeses?


Yes ive been recommended the dbol but i dont want to bloat at all on the face so im giving that a miss...which is a pity really.

havent decide much really just test/tbol. Test i'll run for 10-12.weeks as i didnt feel any benefit beyond 12 last time, i just felt ****ty. Tbol im not sure. Most seem to say 1-4 on about 80mg per day.



Tom90 said:


> I've not tried any of those bit I've always wanted to try WC.
> 
> I'd probably go for the T400 since it doesn't have the undecanoate ester, it'll get to work quicker and be out of your system sooner. Out of interest, what are you hoping to get out of your next cycle mate?


Cheers mate. I think i am more between the two fuerza products tbh.

Cycle will be to train chest, shoulders and arms 3x per week and neglect my trunks, they too big now in comparsion :lol: Really this time i want to get some low bf first then eat a lot less calories than before and make sure that i'm leanish at all times. There may be something else i could throw into a 2nd cycle which could assist with that. I started a thread but the best ive gots test/tbol lol.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Cheers mate. I think i am more between the two fuerza products tbh.
> 
> Cycle will be to train chest, shoulders and arms 3x per week and neglect my trunks, they too big now in comparsion :lol: Really this time i want to get some low bf first then eat a lot less calories than before and make sure that i'm leanish at all times. There may be something else i could throw into a 2nd cycle which could assist with that. I started a thread but the best ive gots test/tbol lol.


If you're wanting to stay lean and make size/strength gains, sounds like Anavar or Winny is what you want!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> If you're wanting to stay lean and make size/strength gains, sounds like Anavar or Winny is what you want!


I did consider it but thought tbol might be a bit easier going on a second cycle as winny can be pretty harsh is that right? Im not sure exactly what bf level i need to be at for it to be effective either. Im not planning on going sub 7 or anything lol.

Anavar i could look into but id need to have a look into my savings account :laugh:

How would you run winny/var?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I did consider it but thought tbol might be a bit easier going on a second cycle as winny can be pretty harsh is that right? Im not sure exactly what bf level i need to be at for it to be effective either. Im not planning on going sub 7 or anything lol.
> 
> Anavar i could look into but id need to have a look into my savings account :laugh:
> 
> How would you run winny/var?


I think that Xpower on here is running a mix by Zydex, 25mg winny, 25mg Anavar, taken twice a day.

I'm unsure about winny, but UGL Anavar is 100mg ED, Pharma grade is about 40mg ED.

I have Pharma Anavar and I'll kick off with that, then switch to BD's stuff at 100mg ED. it's not really that expensive to be honest.

After I start taking the Var, I'll let you know if I think it's worth the money, but it's really not as expensive as everyone makes out.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I think that Xpower on here is running a mix by Zydex, 25mg winny, 25mg Anavar, taken twice a day.
> 
> I'm unsure about winny, but UGL Anavar is 100mg ED, Pharma grade is about 40mg ED.
> 
> ...


Yeah ive looked into it and its not. How would you advise running anavar on a cycle. Last 4 weeks or even last 6

I could do first half tbol second half anavar? I had only really considered adding one compound to my test but i suppose if i dont run all three at once i can gauge whats going on a bit easier.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

That sounds good mate, you could use Tbol for the first 6 weeks, then Anavar for the last 6. Both of them are mild compounds so I doubt you'd have any issues running it like that.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> That sounds good mate, you could use Tbol for the first 6 weeks, then Anavar for the last 6. Both of them are mild compounds so I doubt you'd have any issues running it like that.


I was thinking that yeah but after further research theres so much contradictory info floating around. A lot of folk seem to think running two orals is a waste.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I was thinking that yeah but after further research theres so much contradictory info floating around. A lot of folk seem to think running two orals is a waste.


Well if you're not happy with the body fat you start at, you could try getting leaner then bulking, 4 weeks of var @ 100mg whilst cutting, 4 week off orals + start lean bulking, last 4 weeks run tbol @ 100mg.

I think you should keep it simple again, get to 10-14%bf then run test c/e/t400 @ 600mg with tbol @ 80-100mg for 6-8 weeks, eating 1000kcals over maintenance.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Well if you're not happy with the body fat you start at, you could try getting leaner then bulking, 4 weeks of var @ 100mg whilst cutting, 4 week off orals + start lean bulking, last 4 weeks run tbol @ 100mg.
> 
> I think you should keep it simple again, get to 10-14%bf then run test c/e/t400 @ 600mg with tbol @ 80-100mg for 6-8 weeks, eating 1000kcals over maintenance.


Yeah mate. I agree with you on keeping things simple which is why i thought to just add one oral for 2nd cycle. Do you reckon 2 is overkill? Like i do read a lot on other sites that its best to do things gradually and grow gradually as it makes better use of receptors.

I'm inclined to just start out test/tbol and see how i feel during the cycle and if i wish to add anavar then buy some at the time.

I'm actually going to just cut down to a starting bodyfat naturally really just to gain the experience of doing it but also to remain fresh for cycling. I feel quite skinny already and could start at 11stone but thats still a big inprovement on the 9-9.5 stone i was cut at last time :laugh:


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah mate. I agree with you on keeping things simple which is why i thought to just add one oral for 2nd cycle. Do you reckon 2 is overkill? Like i do read a lot on other sites that its best to do things gradually and grow gradually as it makes better use of receptors.
> 
> I'm inclined to just start out test/tbol and see how i feel during the cycle and if i wish to add anavar then buy some at the time.
> 
> I'm actually going to just cut down to a starting bodyfat naturally really just to gain the experience of doing it but also to remain fresh for cycling. I feel quite skinny already and could start at 11stone but thats still a big inprovement on the 9-9.5 stone i was cut at last time :laugh:


I can't comment on whether 2 is overkill as I probably know about as much as you do! lol, but I do know for certain you'll be able to gain more if you start at a low bf% and use the whole cycle as a bulk


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Well if you're not happy with the body fat you start at, you could try getting leaner then bulking, 4 weeks of var @ 100mg whilst cutting, 4 week off orals + start lean bulking, last 4 weeks run tbol @ 100mg.


this was originally what i intended to do lol


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> this was originally what i intended to do lol


From all the journals I've seen, I always think the first cycle should be a bulk.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> From all the journals I've seen, I always think the first cycle should be a bulk.


Yeah, i agree, but i think the first 4 weeks are perfect for cutting the excess and prepare of a rebound as the test kicks and the body is primed for more calories.

Means less cutting after the bulk, which is a bigger no n.

I'm getting closer to my ideal mass anyway and big 'bulk' is out of the question. I'm 82KG now 16-17% at most, probably lower. 80KF at 10% is nice size for someone who is 5'6 and not looking to stay 'on', if you ask me


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Yeah, i agree, but i think the first 4 weeks are perfect for cutting the excess and prepare of a rebound as the test kicks and the body is primed for more calories.
> 
> Means less cutting after the bulk, which is a bigger no n.
> 
> I'm getting closer to my ideal mass anyway and big 'bulk' is out of the question. I'm 82KG now 16-17% at most, probably lower. 80KF at 10% is nice size for someone who is 5'6 and not looking to stay 'on', if you ask me


80kg is pretty big for a manlet



I'd like to be 90kgs 10% (I'm 6'1) eventually, then just become as strong as possible. I think ~75kg is 10% for me so still a way to go, if my cycles go well I can see myself there in 2-3 years

How about you Tom? Got a goal weight?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

That's what I mean. If I can be 80kg lean whilst *natty* all year round. The manmores will live in fear


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Yeah my goal weight in mind has always been about 75-80kg around 12 stone with abs. 5'8. For me i don't want the sort of stumpy look. I'm guessing that weight woukd be okay for what i'm ideally aiming for but its hard to say as i think my legs (and ass) carry most of my weight so i might actually be able to go heavier without the stumpyness i dont like.

I'd say my aim is different from 99% of people on the forum. Actual bb shows and getting huuuuge etc aint for me at all lol. I actually cant comprehend why your average joe with decent bb genetics puts himself through hell on earth to get to 3% bodyfat to step on stage in a ****y own hall unless they have ambitions to be Mr O. :laugh: Its not a well paid job at all unless youre at the very top lol.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah my goal weight in mind has always been about 75-80kg around 12 stone with abs. 5'8. For me i don't want the sort of stumpy look. I'm guessing that weight woukd be okay for what i'm ideally aiming for but its hard to say as i think my legs (and ass) carry most of my weight so i might actually be able to go heavier without the stumpyness i dont like.
> 
> I'd say my aim is different from 99% of people on the forum. Actual bb shows and getting huuuuge etc aint for me at all lol. I actually cant comprehend why your average joe with decent bb genetics puts himself through hell on earth to get to 3% bodyfat to step on stage in a ****y own hall unless they have ambitions to be Mr O. :laugh: Its not a well paid job at all unless youre at the very top lol.


I have the same thoughts, a lot of money and effort for very little reward (for most)

Z*zz looked great at 6'1, 90kg, 10% and that's what I want my physic to look like. nohomo.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

@bigtommay you ever heard of something called m1t? If you can avoid alcohol, I'd use that to kickstart a cycle. Apparently you can gain a stone in 2 weeks, fairly lean gains too. As far as orals go, it's quite toxic. You're advised to run 20mg split into 2 doses each day.

It actually sounds amazing but I can't resist a good drink, otherwise I'd try it out. It can be bought from JWsupplements


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> @bigtommay you ever heard of something called m1t? If you can avoid alcohol, I'd use that to kickstart a cycle. Apparently you can gain a stone in 2 weeks, fairly lean gains too. As far as orals go, it's quite toxic. You're advised to run 20mg split into 2 doses each day.
> 
> It actually sounds amazing but I can't resist a good drink, otherwise I'd try it out. It can be bought from JWsupplements


Lol its the harshest ph available yeah? I dont know too much about it other than that tbh lol. I dont really want to die of juice abuse  ....or annihilate my chances of another kid :laugh:

A nice side free (as possible) second cycle sounds good to me mate. 

I think ive decided just to go test c/tbol and then possibly take out the tbol and replace with anavar (or winstrol guised as anavar) for the second half.

Ive really considered the t400 but its much of a muchness really and cyp is less expensive


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Okay so i talk ****! T400 gives me a bit more in it for the money and the option to run at higher doses or for slightly longer should i wish to.

Fuerza T400 it is. Ordered. Just need to get me WC Tbol. Looks like i'll be going back on da juice! Just a matter of when lol. 18 weeks from my last pct comes mid august.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Okay so i talk ****! T400 gives me a bit more in it for the money and the option to run at higher doses or for slightly longer should i wish to.
> 
> Fuerza T400 it is. Ordered. Just need to get me WC Tbol. Looks like i'll be going back on da juice! Just a matter of when lol. 18 weeks from my last pct comes mid august.


Could start the last weekend of September? We can be cycle buddies  nohomo


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Could start the last weekend of September? We can be cycle buddies  nohomo


Depends how long it takes me to get suitably lean. Thats around 10-11 weeks away so might well be around the same time. :thumbup1:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout.

Flat BB Bench Press (+2.5kg) - 67.5x 4,3,3

DB incline Bench Press - 22x8,8,8,8 (target hit, increase the weight next time)

OHP - 35x8,8,6 (big increase in reps)

DB skulls - 10x10,9,6 (increase in reps)

Ab crunchin - 41x15,15...had to leave for work.

The bench press gives a good indication of where im at strength wise. Im currently just under 12stone. On cycle at my peak i benched 67.5 x7,6,5 at 13stone. Not too bad a loss.


----------



## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Todays workout.
> 
> Flat BB Bench Press (+2.5kg) - 67.5x 4,3,3
> 
> ...


Looks like the weights are climbing nicely, mate.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Looks like the weights are climbing nicely, mate.


Im fairly happy with the strength i'm at. Obviously not happy with overall upper strength but happy in relation to where i was. 65kg was my 1rm in dec/jan lol.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Got me some hcg (10000iu), exemestane and clomid ordered. Got plenty of nolva at home. So just Tbol to go now


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Jealous Mate. You are going to be benching 100kg soon


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I've also got Aromasin on the way to me, only ever used Adex before now. How are you going to dose it? I think XPower posted a graph of its half life and said it's best to take 1/2 tab ED..


----------



## IronPhil (May 30, 2012)

You are going to love tbol mate, it's my fave oral!

Lovely dry gains I would expect 10lbs over 6 weeks easy!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Jealous Mate. You are going to be benching 100kg soon


i have a long way to go mate. Tbh i'll be ecstatic when i get to 80kg bench, 65kg made me happy...sad i know lol.

Just trying to determine now when is a good time to start. I have 8 weeks minimum left on the cutting i think. Spare tyre just refusing to shift so far lol.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I've also got Aromasin on the way to me, only ever used Adex before now. How are you going to dose it? I think XPower posted a graph of its half life and said it's best to take 1/2 tab ED..


Yeah mate i use 0.5mg per day adex so will be going 12.5 per day aromasin to start. In fact i'll probably use up the last of my adex first.

All my pct and hcg is pharma grade.



IronPhil said:


> You are going to love tbol mate, it's my fave oral!
> 
> Lovely dry gains I would expect 10lbs over 6 weeks easy!


I hope so mate. I dont want to blow up or bloat, if i get lean i want to try and stay leanish this time. Looking forward to trying it. How woukd you recommend dosing alongside T400. Im planning 6wks on it. May change


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I'd start towards the end of the cut and enjoy the rebound and build into the bulk. Less chance of gaining fat IMO.

I'm off the weights this weekend will see if I can hit 83kg next week. Once I reach 84 I am going to cut. I thought with this much rapid weight gain I'd be fatter, but still fairly lean


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I'd start towards the end of the cut and enjoy the rebound and build into the bulk. Less chance of gaining fat IMO.
> 
> I'm off the weights this weekend will see if I can hit 83kg next week. Once I reach 84 I am going to cut. I thought with this much rapid weight gain I'd be fatter, but still fairly lean


Yeah mate, ive thought about maybe introducing it for the last week or two on the cut. Havent been too sure on the benefits of doing this. I'll likely either bring the goods in on cutting or maintenance cals anyway.

Have you got any more pics mate? You definitely looked lean on the last few ive seen.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> I'd start towards the end of the cut and enjoy the rebound and build into the bulk. Less chance of gaining fat IMO.


Which is exactly the reason why I've been thinking of switching to long esters after 12 weeks, when I'm done with this recomp/cut, and starting a bulk for 2 months.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Which is exactly the reason why I've been thinking of switching to long esters after 12 weeks, when I'm done with this recomp/cut, and starting a bulk for 2 months.


What differences would you expect between long and short esters doing this mate. Do you mean youll be staying on aas the whole time through recomp/cut and bulk?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah mate, ive thought about maybe introducing it for the last week or two on the cut. Havent been too sure on the benefits of doing this. I'll likely either bring the goods in on cutting or maintenance cals anyway.
> 
> Have you got any more pics mate? You definitely looked lean on the last few ive seen.


Taken just now. After a sodium rich breakfast and just went for ice cream and a beer


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> What differences would you expect between long and short esters doing this mate. Do you mean youll be staying on aas the whole time through recomp/cut and bulk?


Not having to jab myself so fvcking often :lol:

However I could just man up and buy another 2 vials of test prop and extend my current cycle by 6 weeks..

It's just a though so far, but summer's over in a few months so I wouldn't mind bulking on AAS. Think I'd use dbol as a kicker. But like I said, just a thought.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Taken just now. After a sodium rich breakfast and just went for ice cream and a beer


lookin very good mate. You look leaner if anything. Amazing that you can scoff ice cream etc and keep that leanness


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Not having to jab myself so fvcking often :lol:
> 
> However I could just man up and buy another 2 vials of test prop and extend my current cycle by 6 weeks..
> 
> It's just a though so far, but summer's over in a few months so I wouldn't mind bulking on AAS. Think I'd use dbol as a kicker. But like I said, just a thought.


Ah i see. For a minute i thought you were meaning that you were going to go natty before your bulk :laugh:

How long a cycle wilk that be then mate 18-20 weeks? I dont think i could do it lol. I know the likes of ausbuilt would say cycles shoukld be 20 weeks.


----------



## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Looking good lad. Keep it up


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> lookin very good mate. You look leaner if anything. Amazing that you can scoff ice cream etc and keep that leanness


My diet has been far from clean this whole cycle. Quite a lot of booze too. Not binge drinking though.


----------



## Darnell (Jul 13, 2013)

does anyone know if these are real?


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Ah i see. For a minute i thought you were meaning that you were going to go natty before your bulk :laugh:
> 
> How long a cycle wilk that be then mate 18-20 weeks? I dont think i could do it lol. I know the likes of ausbuilt would say cycles shoukld be 20 weeks.


Natty??? :lol: :lol:

It would be roughly 18 weeks. If I only got 1 vial of prop, that would be 3 weeks' worth of test so 15 weeks. I could run dbol or M1T during that time, but I doubt 3 weeks is enough time to bulk, I'm not sure how keepable the gains, if any, would be.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> My diet has been far from clean this whole cycle. Quite a lot of booze too. Not binge drinking though.


Haha well you have to keep some kind of normality i guess mate otherwise people will get suspicious.



Darnell said:


> View attachment 128803
> does anyone know if these are real?


No idea mate. Send me them and i'll try em and let you know if you like. I was actually considering var.



Tom90 said:


> Natty??? :lol: :lol:
> 
> It would be roughly 18 weeks. If I only got 1 vial of prop, that would be 3 weeks' worth of test so 15 weeks. I could run dbol or M1T during that time, but I doubt 3 weeks is enough time to bulk, I'm not sure how keepable the gains, if any, would be.


Hmmm tough one. Youd probably want to bulk for at least 6 weeks i would think. I hope your runnin hcg boyo lol :laugh:


----------



## Darnell (Jul 13, 2013)

These are the only ones I can get hold of I only got them yesterday il take them see what happens and let you know


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Darnell said:


> These are the only ones I can get hold of I only got them yesterday il take them see what happens and let you know


Well i have heard of the lab so thats a positive but csnt really say by looking at the tub. If you got to the steroid pics section and post a pic of the tub and some tabs with a description youll get a better idea there.

Also if youre using a trustworthy source then they should be good...or at least winstrol :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Hmmm tough one. Youd probably want to bulk for at least 6 weeks i would think. I hope your runnin hcg boyo lol :laugh:


Fvcking boyo :lol:

I have been on HCG, even with it my nuts aren't that big on tren, also my vinegar strokes don't result in much of an output...


----------



## Darnell (Jul 13, 2013)

Il just have to take them and see what happens! Hope there good lol


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I was 75.8kg midweek last week. Had a Heavy saturday of carbs carbs and carbs. Weighed in at 76.6kg Sundsy morning. Went low carb yesterday (approx 50g carbs) and official weekly weigh in weight = 75.6kg ...pleased.

Looking to hit about 75kg by next week.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I was 75.8kg midweek last week. Had a Heavy saturday of carbs carbs and carbs. Weighed in at 76.6kg Sundsy morning. Went low carb yesterday (approx 50g carbs) and official weekly weigh in weight = 75.6kg ...pleased.
> 
> Looking to hit about 75kg by next week.


Oh the believers come around.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Oh the believers come around.


Thing is after a high carb 'binge' its quite easy to go low carb the following day(s) ...i just wasnt sure or not whether i'd overdone it on the carbs. I mustve had 4000-5000cals on saturday :laugh:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Thing is after a high carb 'binge' its quite easy to go low carb the following day(s) ...i just wasnt sure or not whether i'd overdone it on the carbs. I mustve had 4000-5000cals on saturday :laugh:


standard.

I'm glad I'm find a few others who are seeing the benefit or high carb satrurdays on here too. Hopefully you will see a higher metablolism this week. Try and squeeze in a low cal day on a non training day if you can for maximum burn


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> standard.
> 
> I'm glad I'm find a few others who are seeing the benefit or high carb satrurdays on here too. Hopefully you will see a higher metablolism this week. Try and squeeze in a low cal day on a non training day if you can for maximum burn


Off days currently sit maybe at around 500 below my training day cals. Is that considered as not quite low cal or is that okay?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Off days currently sit maybe at around 500 below my training day cals. Is that considered as not quite low cal or is that okay?


That fine.

The lower the cals the greater the deficit. I am a believer that why you have the high and low days the bigger the variences the greater the in fat loss.

The most important thing is to do what is sustainable. Keep doing what you are doing and maybe introduce a mega low day next week or as required.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Super low. Would that be around 1000-1200 maybe?

When you higher the deficit then greater the fat loss. Should muscle loss be considered in this? Or does that only come into play at low bf?

I always keep things moderate due to fear of losing too much strength/muscle but don't know if im being overly paranoid.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

How much muscle do you think you will lose in a single day on low calories assuming protein and macro sufficiency I'd fully met?

Super low I mean 1400-1800


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> How much muscle do you think you will lose in a single day on low calories assuming protein and macro sufficiency I'd fully met?
> 
> Super low I mean 1400-1800


I wouldnt expect much across a single day. Im thinking more of those that will run say 3 of these days. Are they still working these into a sort of set average target say 1800 across a week for example?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Just checked...At present (from today) my workout days are now about 2350 and non workout days about 1850-1900. So a super low day of about 1500 on top of this yeah?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Just checked...At present (from today) my workout days are now about 2350 and non workout days about 1850-1900. So a super low day of about 1500 on top of this yeah?


Yeah, give it a go. If you are starving just give it a miss


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Yeah, give it a go. If you are starving just give it a miss


Tbh i think i was in this ballpark yesterday. Probably best i do it on a sunday after a high carb saturday. I dont train these days either so i'm less hungry.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Today.

Deadlift - 140x 5, 150x5 (went ok just slight twinge)

Sumo Deadlift - 110x10

Leg Press (+7kg) - 113x20,20 (pumped to fvck)

Chinups (+5kg) - 5kg x 6,6,6,4

Hammer curls - 10x8,8,8 drops set to 6 and repped out

Leg Press Calves (+7kg) - 86x15,15,15


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Today.
> 
> Deadlift - 140x 5, 150x5 (went ok just slight twinge)
> 
> ...


I'm going to throw this out there, but you should be leg pressing over 200KG comfortably.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I'm going to throw this out there, but you should be leg pressing over 200KG comfortably.


How many reps you reckon? My second set of 20 had me at about done. Possibly couldve pushed about another two maybe 3 maximum


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> How many reps you reckon? My second set of 20 had me at about done. Possibly couldve pushed about another two maybe 3 maximum


10 at the very least


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

This is the leg press machine i use.

http://uk.matrixfitness.com/product/view/g3-s70-leg-press

I have the seat at setting no 2. My knees just about touch chin every rep. I dont see anyone else in the gym perform them like this though.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Heres a better illustration






My upper leg is closer to my body say 1-2oclock every rep.

Am i doing them wrong?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Well i had to go and read about it and apparently i shouldnt be bringing my legs that far back as it can injure the lower back (ahem).

I also read that its much easier to push weight on the 45degree press than the horizontal press so perhaps thats a reason why im so low...if most other use angled machines.

Another possibility i guess is that im weaker on the muscles activated on leg press as opposed to the squat.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I can press a bit more on a horizontal machine. Last time I used a 45° machine I think I got between 320-360kg for 12 reps, can't remember which as it was in May.

Maybe leg press strength isn't proportional to squat strength, my squat is weak is hell.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I can press a bit more on a horizontal machine. Last time I used a 45° machine I think I got between 320-360kg for 12 reps, can't remember which as it was in May.
> 
> Maybe leg press strength isn't proportional to squat strength, my squat is weak is hell.


I dont really understand it mate. I see a lot of folkd leg pressing 200+ with realtively weak squat so csnt put my finger on it. Dont think the weight on my machone goes much above 200kg if it even does. Im sure i could press that anyway for something just not sure what, im also not sure if my forms out cos i font see anyone on youtube or the gym with their knees in at their face. I thought i was doing it right with near full rom :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I dont really understand it mate. I see a lot of folkd leg pressing 200+ with realtively weak squat so csnt put my finger on it. Dont think the weight on my machone goes much above 200kg if it even does. Im sure i could press that anyway for something just not sure what, im also not sure if my forms out cos i font see anyone on youtube or the gym with their knees in at their face. I thought i was doing it right with near full rom :laugh:


I'll assume it's not a machine that you can add plates to? Remember my mate who does 40rep leg ext and lying leg curls? He doesn't squat but does over 500kg as a working weight on the 45° leg press.

I suppose ROM does come into it quite a bit, when the weight is dead heavy it's hard not to do it with full ROM lol, have to do it slow too, otherwise you'll get pinned to the machine as I found out :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I'll assume it's not a machine that you can add plates to? Remember my mate who does 40rep leg ext and lying leg curls? He doesn't squat but does over 500kg as a working weight on the 45° leg press.
> 
> I suppose ROM does come into it quite a bit, when the weight is dead heavy it's hard not to do it with full ROM lol, have to do it slow too, otherwise you'll get pinned to the machine as I found out :lol:


Well thats another thing mate its even impossible to get pinned in this horizontal press, i just bring my legs down or pull the seat back. Its not really possible to add plates mate. Its just a stack. Id simply just do them single legged when i can press the full stack.

im going to need to try another type of leg press somewhere just to see.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

My creatine was running low so i got myself some new supplies:


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> My creatine was running low so i got myself some new supplies:
> 
> View attachment 129032


get it in ya! <3


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> My creatine was running low so i got myself some new supplies:
> 
> View attachment 129032


Same as mine, hopefully they're good to go


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> get it in ya! <3


:laugh: it'll be a while yet mate. Mid August at the earliest. More likely September.



robdobbie said:


> Same as mine, hopefully they're good to go


Think they should be mate.  lookin forward to findin out.

Just waiting for my aromasin/hcg and clomid now which i ordered at rx. Then to get some tbol and im stocked up to start.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Rotten workout tonight. Dont know what is was, whether it was due to training at night for once or just generally getting weaker but i felt garbage tonight. Bad workouts do happen from time to time though.

Incline BB Press - 57.5x4 (lost a rep) dropped it to 50x7,6

Flat DB Press - 26x 8, 6, 5 (didnt even bother with last set)

DB shoulder press - 18x8,8,5 (lost a rep)

Vbar pushdown (+5kg) - 32x10,8,7

Ab machine (+4kg) - 45x12,12,10

Some side raises to finish.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just one of those days mate. I'm sure it'll give you the motivation to do better next week


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Just one of those days mate. I'm sure it'll give you the motivation to do better next week


Yeah it does indeed happen. I just couldnt be fvcked either. I hate a busy gym. Of course it could also just be strength dropping.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Been looking into this next cycle a bit today and considering switching from tbol to dbol at the start. Ideally i want to run the tbol but its just too damn expensive. Im thinking id maybe just be best running dbol mild for 4 weeks and taking the hit with potential sides. Just up the ai and add some nolva maybe. For the experts out there whats a mild-moderate dose? About 30mg?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Been looking into this next cycle a bit today and considering switching from tbol to dbol at the start. Ideally i want to run the tbol but its just too damn expensive. Im thinking id maybe just be best running dbol mild for 4 weeks and taking the hit with potential sides. Just up the ai and add some nolva maybe. For the experts out there whats a mild-moderate dose? About 30mg?


I plan to start at 30mg and get to 50mg over 5-7 weeks, I know I've seen a few people like IGotTekkers use at 100mg and still drinks, so it can't be that toxic.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> I plan to start at 30mg and get to 50mg over 5-7 weeks, I know I've seen a few people like IGotTekkers use at 100mg and still drinks, so it can't be that toxic.


Has he had any tests done or just going off the fact he's still alive? :lol:

Tbh im less concerned about the toxicity than i am the potential bloating side effects and hair loss haha. I think if i do it i'll also start out on 30mg and just keep the diet very much in check. It wont be an all out bulk anyway so i shouldnt be tempted to eat [email protected] Tbol is just too expensive - its working out about 3x the cost of dbol. Its also more expensive than var.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Has he had any tests done or just going off the fact he's still alive? :lol:
> 
> Tbh im less concerned about the toxicity than i am the potential bloating side effects and hair loss haha. I think if i do it i'll also start out on 30mg and just keep the diet very much in check. It wont be an all out bulk anyway so i shouldnt be tempted to eat [email protected] Tbol is just too expensive - its working out about 3x the cost of dbol. Its also more expensive than var.


Well he's not one to be cautious, so probably not lol

Do you know what exactly actually causes the dbol bloating?


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Well he's not one to be cautious, so probably not lol
> 
> Do you know what exactly actually causes the dbol bloating?


the difference between tbol and dbol is one molecule chlorine i think??? stops it binding to receptors i think.

People like Chelsea on here have cut successfully on dbol and tbh from what i have read and personal exp 30mg ed (blue hearts, not some crappy underdosed stuff) with ai is fine and better gains than tbol


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> My creatine was running low so i got myself some new supplies:
> 
> View attachment 129032


Ohhh you running another cycle?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Well he's not one to be cautious, so probably not lol
> 
> Do you know what exactly actually causes the dbol bloating?


The difference i guess is what sam says below but I havent a clue mate what actually causes it to happen. Not my area of expertise lol. I know the things i'm supposed to do to try and limit it though.



Sambuca said:


> the difference between tbol and dbol is one molecule chlorine i think??? stops it binding to receptors i think.
> 
> People like Chelsea on here have cut successfully on dbol and tbh from what i have read and personal exp 30mg ed (blue hearts, not some crappy underdosed stuff) with ai is fine and better gains than tbol


I think it was you that persuaded me on this sam :laugh: I did some research further and i think tbol is what ideally id want (more lean muscle, less water, easier to keep gains) but dbol apparently will at least give me a lot more strength, is a third of the price and should kickstart the cycle nicely. I'll just take all necessary precautions to limit the puffiness.



The L Man said:


> Ohhh you running another cycle?


I am indeed mate. I'm about 14-15 weeks off now. Felt excellent through pct and since tbh. Just hoping to be going into this one lean this time. Hopefully at about 11 stone, not great but far better than my previous best of 9-9.5 :laugh:


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> I am indeed mate. I'm about 14-15 weeks off now. Felt excellent through pct and since tbh. Just hoping to be going into this one lean this time. Hopefully at about 11 stone, not great but far better than my previous best of 9-9.5 :laugh:


Good luck mate :beer: - you have been really dedicated so far so I'm sure it will be a success! What are your goals?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Ps @The L Man .... What the hell you doin with yourself? Stop chasing puss and get in the gym. The puss will then come to you


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Ps @The L Man .... What the hell you doin with yourself? Stop chasing puss and get in the gym. The puss will then come to you


I am a disaster lol. I haven't been to the gym in about 3 weeks. Diets off point and I have no funds until next month! Gym just seems a struggle lately - I don't enjoy it like I used to. Going to have another go next month probably with the 4 day split, althought I would prefer 3 days because I am lazy.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

The L Man said:


> Good luck mate :beer: - you have been really dedicated so far so I'm sure it will be a success! What are your goals?


same as ever mate  about 12-12.5 stone 12% arms between 15-16 a slight bit of chest and a slight bit of shoulders. (Ive lost my slight roid shoulder pump).

Legs can go to fvck lol.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

The L Man said:


> I am a disaster lol. I haven't been to the gym in about 3 weeks. Diets off point and I have no funds until next month! Gym just seems a struggle lately - I don't enjoy it like I used to. Going to have another go next month probably with the 4 day split, althought I would prefer 3 days because I am lazy.


change your routine up. read on y3t good fun imo


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

Sambuca said:


> change your routine up. read on y3t good fun imo


Cheers mate I will look into it. It's only a 3 week program though?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

The L Man said:


> I am a disaster lol. I haven't been to the gym in about 3 weeks. Diets off point and I have no funds until next month! Gym just seems a struggle lately - I don't enjoy it like I used to. Going to have another go next month probably with the 4 day split, althought I would prefer 3 days because I am lazy.


If you don't enjoy it you won't get anywhere, the gym shouldn't be a chore.

It's more productive to do a 3 day split for 12 months, than it is to do a 4 day split for a couple months and stop. You probably just need a training partner mate.


----------



## The L Man (Sep 13, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> same as ever mate  about 12-12.5 stone 12% arms between 15-16 a slight bit of chest and a slight bit of shoulders. (Ive lost my slight roid shoulder pump).
> 
> Legs can go to fvck lol.


Fvck legs lol! I thought my legs were ok until someone called me out in Magaluf. Confidence knock haha.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

The L Man said:


> Cheers mate I will look into it. It's only a 3 week program though?


you run it in 3 week blocks so once 3 weeks over start from week 1 again


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

The L Man said:


> Fvck legs lol! I thought my legs were ok until someone called me out in Magaluf. Confidence knock haha.


Mate. Dont worry too much about confidence. You're on a bb forum. No matter how they dress it up in alphaness i reckon 90-95% of guys on here have some form of confidence or inferiority complex hence why they feel the need partake in such a sport and be 'bigger' to feel better :laugh:

If it helps then its a good thing though.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Another ****ter of a workout.

Squats - 100x8,8,7

GHR - BWx10,10,10

Kroc Rows - 34x6,6,6,5 (extra rep)

Recline DB Curl (+2kg) - 12x8,8,4

Calf Press - 66x 12,12,12 (think im actually pushing more than 66 as the machines a rusting pile of ****)

Cant be bothered to train legs or squat, no fight in the dog at all, back still hurts and i generally cant be ****d with legs. I picked up 100 for a warm up and it felt heavy so decided just to make it working sets of 8. Starting to feel weak this week on the big lifts. Ive Probably dropped my cals too low chasing weight loss.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Another ****ter of a workout.
> 
> Squats - 100x8,8,7
> 
> ...


Do you have any caffine before training? A strong cup of coffee is the only thing that keeps me going in the gym.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Do you have any caffine before training? A strong cup of coffee is the only thing that keeps me going in the gym.


I do mate yeah. Its about the only time i drink coffee actually. Im back to training first thing next week so hopefully itll pick up.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

75.6kg on Monday and today im 74.5kg. Thats a lot of weight dropped in that timeframe. Ive probably went lower than i can handle. Kinda makes sense that ive felt weak as sh1t this week.

Will be enjoying a few good foods today thats for sure.


----------



## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> 75.6kg on Monday and today im 74.5kg. Thats a lot of weight dropped in that timeframe. Ive probably went lower than i can handle. Kinda makes sense that ive felt weak as sh1t this week.
> 
> Will be enjoying a few good foods today thats for sure.


That's great work mate! Doing this recomp has given me a new found respect for dieting. I've lost an inch off my stomach and maybe half a kilo in 4 weeks, really puts into perspective how well you're doing!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> 75.6kg on Monday and today im 74.5kg. Thats a lot of weight dropped in that timeframe. Ive probably went lower than i can handle. Kinda makes sense that ive felt weak as sh1t this week.
> 
> Will be enjoying a few good foods today thats for sure.


Awesome work


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> That's great work mate! Doing this recomp has given me a new found respect for dieting. I've lost an inch off my stomach and maybe half a kilo in 4 weeks, really puts into perspective how well you're doing!





simonthepieman said:


> Awesome work


Thanks guys. Tbh i was actually feeling more negative about it than positive as i feel like the bigger drop has affected my strength this week. Im hopeful that i csn build it back up a bit this week. I go back on the eca this week as well and i'll probably run 2x per day for the next two weeks. Should hopefully help a lot also.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I tell you what would really help your strength, test and dbol :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I tell you what would really help your strength, test and dbol :lol:


  I should bloody hope so mate lol.

Just need plenty of self discipline for the next month or two :laugh:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

On the bright side. You can probably allow your self to eat more whilst shifting those muffin hips


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> On the bright side. You can probably allow your self to eat more whilst shifting those muffin hips


Haha i'm doing okay. I had a nice high carb day yesterday 250g+ of good stuff. Pizzas and cereals. Kept protein at 1g/lb and moderate fat.

Today is starvation no carb day  probably about 1400cals as you suggested .... But i'm doing okay so far. Got two meals to go and not all that hungry which is surprising.

Back on eca tomorrow mate. I'm going to run 2x per day. One pre-workout. When woukd you recommend the other?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Oh and blue heart dbols and bd anavar ordered today. I might need to stock up on more nolva for my titties on cycle.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Haha i'm doing okay. I had a nice high carb day yesterday 250g+ of good stuff. Pizzas and cereals. Kept protein at 1g/lb and moderate fat.
> 
> Today is starvation no carb day  probably about 1400cals as you suggested .... But i'm doing okay so far. Got two meals to go and not all that hungry which is surprising.
> 
> Back on eca tomorrow mate. I'm going to run 2x per day. One pre-workout. When woukd you recommend the other?


I've only done it AM tbh

I've cleared 10k cals since yesterday. Hungry again. I'm starting my cut tomorrow


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I've only done it AM tbh
> 
> I've cleared 10k cals since yesterday. Hungry again. I'm starting my cut tomorrow


I'll either pop one post and pre or else go for a double dose pre.

Jeezus mate. I think you might be my hero  i wish i was able to eat all that. What has it consisted of?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I'll either pop one post and pre or else go for a double dose pre.
> 
> Jeezus mate. I think you might be my hero  i wish i was able to eat all that. What has it consisted of?


Meat and booze mostly.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I got accused of taking steroids 3 times this weekend :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I got accused of taking steroids 3 times this weekend :lol:


That means youre doing it right! 

Were any accusations from the missus?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> That means youre doing it right!
> 
> Were any accusations from the missus?


Yep. Today.

Although she defended me earlier in the day.

Natty4life

I might try keto next week. That means not drinking. Yuck


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Yep. Today.
> 
> Although she defended me earlier in the day.
> 
> ...


When you say natty4life do you mean thats your retort or do you believe youre still natty?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Just tongue in cheek. I'm no longer natty. Until a few a weeks anyway


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Official weight for the week. 74.6kg. So down 0.9kg on last week. Popped 2x eca today and feeling wired.

I can see some semblance of abs now but seem to have some really sort of soft lower stomach/hip fat. Never seen it like that before.


----------



## Guest (Jul 22, 2013)

Alright BigT, mind if i pop in now and then? looking to cut up myself soon and nice to read through for the motivation 

Keep up the hard work bud


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

-_- said:


> Alright BigT, mind if i pop in now and then? looking to cut up myself soon and nice to read through for the motivation
> 
> Keep up the hard work bud


Of course mate. Permission not required :laugh:

Ps. Get a journal going. Good for keeping you going towards those goals...and for support.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Official weight for the week. 74.6kg. So down 0.9kg on last week. Popped 2x eca today and feeling wired.
> 
> I can see some semblance of abs now but seem to have some really sort of soft lower stomach/hip fat. Never seen it like that before.


the awful hip fat. last place to go on me. its getting older! get some tren in you makes it disappear haha


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout.

Flat BB Bench press - 65x5,5,3 (couple of reps down)

Incline DB Bench Press (+2kg) - 24x8,4 22x8,5

OHP - 35x8,6 30x6 (couple of reps down)

DB skulls - 10x10, 8, 6 (a rep down)

Ab crunch (+2kg) - 43x12,12,8

Some high rep low weight lateral raises to finish.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> the awful hip fat. last place to go on me. its getting older! get some tren in you makes it disappear haha


Yeah it must be. I've never had this before. Just hope it fvcks off before i hit 70kg lol.

Tren?? mg:


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah it must be. I've never had this before. Just hope it fvcks off before i hit 70kg lol.
> 
> Tren?? mg:


:> var helped mine go actually tighting sides up loads, tren changed my body shape completely.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> :> var helped mine go actually tighting sides up loads, tren changed my body shape completely.


I could do a Pre-cycle tightening up var cycle :laugh:


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I could do a Pre-cycle tightening up var cycle :laugh:


haha tbh tbol then 8 weeks of var would be win ;D with some proviron as well. you would be hard as hell both muscle wise and in the trouser department


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Sambuca said:


> haha tbh tbol then 8 weeks of var would be win ;D with some proviron as well. you would be hard as hell both muscle wise and in the trouser department


ah i wish it was tbol. Its dbol instead though mate. Tbol too expensive.

:laugh: after the problems i had last time with the missus id rather go floppy for the cycle :lol:


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> ah i wish it was tbol. Its dbol instead though mate. Tbol too expensive.
> 
> :laugh: after the problems i had last time with the missus id rather go floppy for the cycle :lol:


slip her some proviron when she isnt looking


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

74.2kg on the scales this morning.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

This cutting lark is easy. Did a big cheat day not hinder progress 

Keep it up mate.


----------



## r1234 (Jun 16, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Yep. Today.
> 
> Although she defended me earlier in the day.
> 
> ...


What about spirits? In doing keto just now, vodka soda and sugar free lime is keeping me sane at the weekends and doesn't seam to effect ketosis (according to test strips)


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> This cutting lark is easy. Did a big cheat day not hinder progress
> 
> Keep it up mate.


Lol. Unfortunately i didn't get to see my weight the morning after cheat day this weekend. Thats a fun bit.

Couldnt sleep last night. I took eca in the morning then took another at 5pm and was buzzing all night. Lesson learned there i think. On the plus side my house is sparkling.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Lol. Unfortunately i didn't get to see my weight the morning after cheat day this weekend. Thats a fun bit.
> 
> Couldnt sleep last night. I took eca in the morning then took another at 5pm and was buzzing all night. Lesson learned there i think. On the plus side my house is sparkling.


**** me i was in a state yesterday. I had ECA and about 6 coffees. Even with a melatonin it took me ages to get to sleep. The amount of cramping i was in yesterdays cardio session was horrible. It was like my entire body was wired up to one of those electro-ab tightner machines.

I've come down 3KG since Monday lol after my epic cheat weekend.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> **** me i was in a state yesterday. I had ECA and about 6 coffees. Even with a melatonin it took me ages to get to sleep. The amount of cramping i was in yesterdays cardio session was horrible. It was like my entire body was wired up to one of those electro-ab tightner machines.
> 
> I've come down 3KG since Monday lol after my epic cheat weekend.


Haha sounds a bit like me. I drank a lit more coffee than normal yesterday (black as well which i dont do) for the first time yet on eca i felt high.

How are you looking after that weight reduction? Anything noticeable?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays seshawn

Rack pulls (+2.5kg) - 165x5,5,5 very easy but back niggles a bit.

Front squat - 90x8,7

Lat Pulldown - 59x6,6,6,5 (same as previous)

Hammer Curls - 10 x 10,10,8 (increase in reps)

No time for calves but i was fvcked anyway.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Haha sounds a bit like me. I drank a lit more coffee than normal yesterday (black as well which i dont do) for the first time yet on eca i felt high.
> 
> How are you looking after that weight reduction? Anything noticeable?


Yeah, i look like i have lost 3KG. seriously. i was a little worried at first. but back to normal. Probably <15%, i might order some callipers on my next protein order. to get some more insight

Still buzzing at the moment from an eca. I am going to treat myself to my final coffee


----------



## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Nice weight on that front squat pal, and the rest tbh!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

faultline said:


> Nice weight on that front squat pal, and the rest tbh!


Cheers buddy. Im a bit of a skinnyfat waif now though lol.

Havent noticed you around for a bit (maybe just me). Hope things are good.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

A question for anyone really but @simonthepieman in particular with his knowledge for routines.

At what point should a trainer look to move towards more bodypart split orientated high volume training as opposed to frequency based approach.

Im looking around the forum and seeing a lot of the same routines being used from skinny guys through to beasts lol.


----------



## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Cheers buddy. Im a bit of a skinnyfat waif now though lol.
> 
> Havent noticed you around for a bit (maybe just me). Hope things are good.


Started a new job a few weeks ago and been very busy, trying to catch up!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> A question for anyone really but @simonthepieman in particular with his knowledge for routines.
> 
> At what point should a trainer look to move towards more bodypart split orientated high volume training as opposed to frequency based approach.
> 
> Im looking around the forum and seeing a lot of the same routines being used from skinny guys through to beasts lol.


I suppose the short answer is when the intermediate ones stop working.

But it is all depend on you needs and wants. a change is frequency and volume can be a trigger to growth and development. What are you thinking?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I suppose the short answer is when the intermediate ones stop working.
> 
> But it is all depend on you needs and wants. a change is frequency and volume can be a trigger to growth and development. What are you thinking?


My thoughts have been towards the next cycle.

I was thinking something frequency based similar to what im doing with chest/shldr/tri and bavk/leg/bi rotations but with a bit more volume and more focus on shoulders on one of those days perhaps putting them ahead of chest. Also more back and less legs on leg days perhaps having one leg day as quads and the next hams/calves as this will allow me to focus more on aspects of my back width/lats that i feel are weak. I can also add in an arm focused extra day as and when my schedule allows.

However, when looking around the routines on the forum almost everyone is doing bodypart splits with high volume some 4 days some 5 and 6. Its always 'chest day' or 'arm day' and generally really high volume.

I just dont understa d whats best and whats good for who. Some of the bigger guys on the forum are also doing this as well but at 14-15 stone even though youre in better nick than most on the forum are you actually what you would call advanced? I think of advanced as professional


----------



## harry93 (Jul 26, 2013)

Sounds realistic mate, good luck


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> My thoughts have been towards the next cycle.
> 
> I was thinking something frequency based similar to what im doing with chest/shldr/tri and bavk/leg/bi rotations but with a bit more volume and more focus on shoulders on one of those days perhaps putting them ahead of chest. Also more back and less legs on leg days perhaps having one leg day as quads and the next hams/calves as this will allow me to focus more on aspects of my back width/lats that i feel are weak. I can also add in an arm focused extra day as and when my schedule allows.
> 
> ...


I'd just about consider myself advanced. Just.

How many days can you train a week. I though 3 was your limit?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

A decent option for you could be this

W1

Chest/back

Legs

Shoulders/arms

W2

Chest/arms/front delts

Legs

Back/shoulders/mid rear delts

That's hits the arms and shoulders a lot with frequency with a single body part getting high volume periodically


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I'd just about consider myself advanced. Just.
> 
> How many days can you train a week. I though 3 was your limit?


3 mostly mate i could maybe get the weekend day for arms and other simple sh1t. Even if it just involves basic home barbell or db setup thats been lying in a cupboard.

It very rarely works out for me though


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Is the main goal of your next cycle to add mass to your upper body?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> 3 mostly mate i could maybe get the weekend day for arms and other simple sh1t. Even if it just involves basic home barbell or db setup thats been lying in a cupboard.
> 
> It very rarely works out for me though


What about doing your shoulder workouts at home? I can only get to the gym Tues, Thurs + Fri, so I'm buying dumb bells up to 35kg and an adjustable bench to do shoulders on a monday night.

Although it's going to cost about £150-£200 for it all unless I can find it second hand on gumtree/eBay second hand


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> A decent option for you could be this
> 
> W1
> 
> ...


I like that for the most part. What im wondering though - in terms of back training - isnt that a big gap betwwen each back session? Or are you including traps in that? Also when you say shoulder and also delts whats the difference? Is shoulders compounds?



robdobbie said:


> Is the main goal of your next cycle to add mass to your upper body?


100% i honestly coukdnt care less if my legs shrunk. Theyre too big for my body lol, thats why i was thinking to actually keep legs at 3workouts in every 10 but alternate quad with ham/calves and focus more on back in the leg back sessions.



robdobbie said:


> What about doing your shoulder workouts at home? I can only get to the gym Tues, Thurs + Fri, so I'm buying dumb bells up to 35kg and an adjustable bench to do shoulders on a monday night.
> 
> Although it's going to cost about £150-£200 for it all unless I can find it second hand on gumtree/eBay second hand


Thats a very good option mate although it probably wouldnt be olympic set maybe more db focused so i dont go through my ceiling. New build houses arent the best for this sort of thing :lol:

In terms of your routine. Its also sort of bodypart split with an extra focus on arms. What was your reason for this choice mate?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Thats a very good option mate although it probably wouldnt be olympic set maybe more db focused so i dont go through my ceiling. New build houses arent the best for this sort of thing :lol:
> 
> In terms of your routine. Its also sort of bodypart split with an extra focus on arms. What was your reason for this choice mate?


All I'm going to get is 2x DBs, weights and a bench, I'll be doing seated OH press, lateral raises, front raises, seated rear delt flys, should only take 30 minutes, I haven't worked out what I'm going to do for arms at home yet.

Just because I want big arms! lol. My quads/hams are of a decent size (imo) due to stronglifts, calves definitely need work though and wish I'd thought about them more when I did SLs, I'll probably do about 5-6 sets for them when I get on cycle (if pumps aren't to bad), so I want legs bigger but wanna put more emphasize on arms and upper body.

I think you should just do a split so you can really focus on the muscles you want to bring up, maybe have a look my routine I posted in my journal the other day and just add/subtract anything you don't like.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I like that for the most part. What im wondering though - in terms of back training - isnt that a big gap betwwen each back session? Or are you including traps in that? Also when you say shoulder and also delts whats the difference? Is shoulders compounds?


I suppose it would be best to swap the monday and friday on the second week.

What I meant with shoulders is that on back and shoulders don't train any isolations on front delts as they get smashed on chest day that week


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> All I'm going to get is 2x DBs, weights and a bench, I'll be doing seated OH press, lateral raises, front raises, seated rear delt flys, should only take 30 minutes, I haven't worked out what I'm going to do for arms at home yet.
> 
> Just because I want big arms! lol. My quads/hams are of a decent size (imo) due to stronglifts, calves definitely need work though and wish I'd thought about them more when I did SLs, I'll probably do about 5-6 sets for them when I get on cycle (if pumps aren't to bad), so I want legs bigger but wanna put more emphasize on arms and upper body.
> 
> I think you should just do a split so you can really focus on the muscles you want to bring up, maybe have a look my routine I posted in my journal the other day and just add/subtract anything you don't like.


Yeah mate, thats what i'm trying to think about. The worry i have with breaking it into a split is that i'm not advanced enough therefore would be i shortchanging myself by only doing each bodypart just the once per week on gear when a natty can recover well enough with 2x per week bodypart frequency. :confused1:

I might look into a cheap bench setup for the house though and it could possibly give me more options.



simonthepieman said:


> I suppose it would be best to swap the monday and friday on the second week.
> 
> What I meant with shoulders is that on back and shoulders don't train any isolations on front delts as they get smashed on chest day that week


I thought that then i looked again and itd be the same for chest then right? :laugh:

I follow you now on the delt shoulders stuff mate. Rear delts are something that ive very much neglected i think.

How would you set up a 4 day per week if i were to get a cheap bench home setup as advised by rob above for arm/shoulder type stuff.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays stuff.

Inc BB Bench Press (-7.5kg) - 50x7,6,6 - dropped weight as its becoming really harsh on shoulders now.

Flat db bench press (-2kg) - 24x8,8,8,5

DB shoulder press - 18x8,8,7 (increased reps)

Rope pushdownw (vbar missing) - 3x15

Leg raises - BWx15,15,12


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I feel your pain brother, I haven't benched with a barbell in probably 2 years.

I can DB press the 35s for 14 reps, no way in hell could I do 70kg with a barbell for 14 reps, my collarbones would be screaming!

How do you find benching with DBs instead?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> I feel your pain brother, I haven't benched with a barbell in probably 2 years.
> 
> I can DB press the 35s for 14 reps, no way in hell could I do 70kg with a barbell for 14 reps, my collarbones would be screaming!
> 
> How do you find benching with DBs instead?


DBs is still painful mate but more flexibility to adjust.

I dont usually have too many problems. I put it down to the cutting really.

35s for 14 is some going mate!


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Well tbh I hardly see anyone on here train upper/lower on cycle (unless I'm just blind) it's always body part splits, I liked upper/lower, but I wouldn't go back to it


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> DBs is still painful mate but more flexibility to adjust.
> 
> I dont usually have too many problems. I put it down to the cutting really.
> 
> 35s for 14 is some going mate!


I see, I find it easier to get better ROM with DBs anyway.

1 word mate, ANAVAR. I'll never cycle without it again. Before Christmas I struggled with 30kg when I trained with my mate.

Check my journal for latest PB


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Well tbh I hardly see anyone on here train upper/lower on cycle (unless I'm just blind) it's always body part splits, I liked upper/lower, but I wouldn't go back to it


Yeah mate i agree with this which was why i asked the question. Now what i dont know is whether theres a reason for this or whether people just blindly follow monday- chest etc... :confused1:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

The whole 5 day split thing started in the 80s when steroids took hold. Arnie became god. And magazines were the only source if information.

We've been force fed 30 years of dogma. If people believe in religion over science then training protocols promoted by bodybuilders is going to stick too.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah mate i agree with this which was why i asked the question. Now what i dont know is whether theres a reason for this or whether people just blindly follow monday- chest etc... :confused1:


Not all pro's followed your typical BB'er split.

Eg Yates started with 1 month full body.

Then did a good few months on an A/B split before then going for years on chest+arms, legs, Delts+back done 5 days in 7.

Then the famous blood and guts Olympia split.

Theory being beginners/intermediates can handle more volume/frequency due to the lower poundages used.

Just putting that out there


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

MutantX said:


> Not all pro's followed your typical BB'er split.
> 
> Eg Yates started with 1 month full body.
> 
> ...


You are spot on.

Once you get the poundages up you need to drop the frequency.

The quickest way the poundage up is the frequency and lower the volume.

Most people miss the later part.

You will see skinny people and big people on split. What's the difference between them?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> The whole 5 day split thing started in the 80s when steroids took hold. Arnie became god. And magazines were the only source if information.
> 
> We've been force fed 30 years of dogma. If people believe in religion over science then training protocols promoted by bodybuilders is going to stick too.





MutantX said:


> Not all pro's followed your typical BB'er split.
> 
> Eg Yates started with 1 month full body.
> 
> ...


Thanks guys, thats somewhat reassuring to hear for me as the whole 5 day split thing is something i just cant manage and i was beggining to wonder if i was missing something.

The way i'm looking at it just now. Im doing IA at the moment post cycle and on a cut. Im doing on average 11 working sets of chest per week (avg of 2x one week 1x the next) and managing to handle it (with only slight strength loss so far).

Therefore, when on cycle, enhanced and with a calorie surplus i could surely add to this easily in terms of volume with flyes for example and hit say 16-20 working sets per week for that bodypart (and likewise for others) and also have the benefit of two growths phases?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Ps nice to have you comment in my journal @MutantX i've enjoyed a few of your posts on the forum


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You are spot on.
> 
> Once you get the poundages up you need to drop the frequency.
> 
> ...


I dunno? The skinny are copying in hope and the beasts have either a) put in the groubdwork through the right methods or B) have genetics that work with anything.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You are over thinking it.

Weight and intensity.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Build up the intensity. Then build up the volume at high intensity. That will create the growth.

The frequency should be as often as you can and recover and make progress in the next session. Which drops as intensity increases.

High volume and low intensity does very little except make you sore


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Build up the intensity. Then build up the volume at high intensity. That will create the growth.
> 
> The frequency should be as often as you can and recover and make progress in the next session. Which drops as intensity increases.
> 
> High volume and low intensity does very little except make you sore


Might seem like a daft question but How do you build up intensity mate? I can only think this is to lift more weight each session with max effort...but i try and do that anyway lol.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Might seem like a daft question but How do you build up intensity mate? I can only think this is to lift more weight each session with max effort...but i try and do that anyway lol.


You're doing it correctly


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You're doing it correctly


lol. So if i continue to do IA or similar (Which i want to as its great and i want to try i on surplus) its best to stick to the same principles until i max out the intensity (weight lifted) and only then add in some extra volume?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> lol. So if i continue to do IA or similar (Which i want to as its great and i want to try i on surplus) its best to stick to the same principles until i max out the intensity (weight lifted) and only then add in some extra volume?


Yeah. Kinda. That'll work.

My advice is treat is like dinner.

Once you eat your meat and veg. You can have desert. Your top set PR is you meat. The planned assistance is the veg. Additional volume is dessert.

What should you have for dessert?

Satisfy you cravings. Normally I'd have something that goes with the meal. But it's fine to follow your taste buds.

If you are not finishing your mains. No dessert.

Hopefully that's not too corny


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:



> Yeah. Kinda. That'll work.
> 
> My advice is treat is like dinner.
> 
> ...


You just made me hungry :lol:

Not corny at all mate. One of my favourite posts that


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Nice carby breakfast this morning with some of my favourite things...Special K and cinnamon bagels mmmm.


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Mmmm, cinnamon and raisin bagels are goooood!


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## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Might seem like a daft question but How do you build up intensity mate? I can only think this is to lift more weight each session with max effort...but i try and do that anyway lol.


More weight or more reps, progress is what your chasing.

I only do 1 work set per exercise so for eg chest is:

Incline bench 8, 6, 4, 6+ (work set 6-8 reps)

Flat db Bench 10, 6, 10+ (keep reps higher with db's due to positional issues etc)


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Mmmm, cinnamon and raisin bagels are goooood!


Sure are buddy 

I went on to have bacon/cheese burger, wedges, caramel cake with custard then later had a chinese inc starter then after that i had 2xwispa ice creams then late on in the evening i had a few pints of kopperberg and a chicken breast before bed 

Today its next to no carb though :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

MutantX said:


> More weight or more reps, progress is what your chasing.
> 
> I only do 1 work set per exercise so for eg chest is:
> 
> ...


Yeah this is pretty much the objective of any workout for me mate although right now while cutting just maintaining any reps is a bonus :laugh:

Where i was getting confused is where the greater vokume/lesser frequency thing comes in but from what simon was saying i'm guessing this doesnt necessarily need to apply to me so much yet until i'm hitting heavy enough weights that i cant recover as quickly from?

With the single work set approach are your warm up sets quite close in weight to the final working set weight?


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> With the single work set approach are your warm up sets quite close in weight to the final working set weight?


I try not to over think it mate, if I'm ramping upto a top set of 3 pps on bench I will just go up a plate at a time.

I really don't see what good is doing 3 or 4 sets of 12 with the same weight on the bar, its obviously not that heavy if you can do that many sets 

Doesn't matter if that were the ideal method to grow, because the body doesn't grow big amounts of muscle without the weight on the bar increasing significantly.

Prob very different to what most recommend on here but just something to think about


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

MutantX said:


> I try not to over think it mate, if I'm ramping upto a top set of 3 pps on bench I will just go up a plate at a time.
> 
> I really don't see what good is doing *3 or 4 sets of 12 with the same weight on the bar*, its obviously not that heavy if you can do that many sets
> 
> ...


More reps, more TUT, more growth.

Not that your way is 'wrong'


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> More reps, more TUT, more growth.


If that were the case, then we'd all be doing 8x8 or 10x10?


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

MutantX said:


> If that were the case, then we'd all be doing 8x8 or 10x10?


People do do 10x10, that's GVT.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> People do do 10x10, that's GVT.


People do all kinds of stuff but doesn't mean it's beneficial to the majority or that most people would be able to recover from it well enough to grow in the long term.

People at my gym doing straight sets are doing three times the volume any pro does, with half the recovery ability and not the same gear usage but still think they'll grow. Not going to happen...

Goal dependent though I guess and someone's journal ain't the best place for this debate.

Sorry for taking it off topic


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

MutantX said:


> People do all kinds of stuff but doesn't mean it's beneficial to the majority or that most people would be able to recover from it well enough to grow in the long term.
> 
> People at my gym doing straight sets are doing *three times the volume any pro does*, with half the recovery ability and not the same gear usage but still think they'll grow. Not going to happen...
> 
> Goal dependent though I guess, do you ever plan to compete?


3 times the volume? Are you saying all pros only do 1 set instead of 3 then? :confused1:

No I don't ever plan to compete, but why would that make a difference on how to build muscle? Everyone still wants to grow as quick as they can.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

And just spotted



MutantX said:


> People do all kinds of stuff but doesn't mean it's beneficial to the majority or that most people would be able to recover from it well enough to grow in the long term.
> 
> People at my gym doing straight sets are doing three times the volume any pro does, with half the recovery ability and not the same gear usage *but still think they'll grow. Not going to happen...*
> 
> ...


So lifting a weight 3x10 is a waste of time as you're not going to grow at all?


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

robdobbie said:


> 3 times the volume? Are you saying all pros only do 1 set instead of 3 then? :confused1:
> 
> No I don't ever plan to compete, but why would that make a difference on how to build muscle? Everyone still wants to grow as quick as they can.


Ronnie, Yates, Phil Heath, Ruhl all train this way, any pro who doesn't is more likely an exception than the normal.

Some may drop the weight after and do a higher rep set but they will track and try to progress on both rep ranges.

Yates may call it 1 x 6-12

Ronnie may call it 4x6-12

1 is listing the ramping sets, the other isn't.

Watch some videos on youtube if you think I am wrong about this?

If the top people in the sport don't train with straight sets volume with their genetics and gear usage then why do most gym rats feel this is the best route?

I think it's down to how the pro's routines used to get published in magazines, they would list Ronnie as doing 4 sets of 15 reps and people assumed this was straight sets.


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

MutantX said:


> Ronnie, Yates, Phil Heath, Ruhl all train this way, any pro who doesn't is more likely an exception than the normal.
> 
> Some may drop the weight after and do a higher rep set but they will track and try to progress on both rep ranges.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, I wasn't trying to say you're wrong, was just wondering what your reasoning was behind what you said.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

http://www.t-nation.com/testosterone-magazine-639#thibaudeau-on-ramping

a decent read on the subject for people new to ramping


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

This is all good information guys cheers.

One question i have about the single working set MutantX...do you take it to failure?

The reason i ask is because the ramping principle youve described here is how i initially started my training for about a year. I worked up to a top set of my heaviset weight and lifted it to failure...sometimes beyond. For whatever reason it didnt seem to work for me. I was always fatigued and sick and spent more time out the gym than in. It was when i started speaking to simon i started to make some progress and he generally put me on straight sets although he does also suggest ramping at times also. The main difference seems to be that i no longer to to failure until i absolutely must to hit a target. Was just wondering if you do similar with the one working set?

Tbh after further reading on volume/frequency/strength/hypertrophy. It just seems that theres no definitive answers. Its just a simple case of figuring it out what works best for oneself. I think therefore that my best approach is to try and get a good mix of everything in.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout.

Squats - 110x5, 120x3, Front Squat - 100x3

GHR - BWx10,10,10

Kroc Rows (+2kg) - 36x6,6,5 ds with 22kg

Recline db curls - 12x8,6 (lost reps here) ds with 8kg

Again no time for calves (need to train faster!)

Im coming off back squats for a few weeks. 110 was fine but 120gave me too much pain at the usual point. Front squats is a lot more comfortable with the upright position therefore i will stick to these for a bit.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Oh and cycle ready to go:



Some good old patience now required :laugh:


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

YES YES YES, get it in you now, you dirty fvcking roider 

Kickstart with dbol, end with var? What doses are you running everything and for how long?


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Tbh after further reading on volume/frequency/strength/hypertrophy. It just seems that theres no definitive answers. Its just a simple case of figuring it out what works best for oneself. I think therefore that my best approach is to try and get a good mix of everything in.


Well that's the key, whatever works for you.

I train to 'positive failure' which basically means I stop when I'm having to grind the weight up.

I am surprised you can recover from straight sets but not 1 set to failure?

How many sets were going to failure per session? How many days were you in the gym per week?

So many variables mate.

I do 2 exercises per body part per session and goto failure on final set of each.

Have bad no issues with recovery as long as I take a week off or deload every 6-8 weeks.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Kroc Rows (+2kg) - 36x6,6,5 ds with 22kg


How are you doing the Kroc rows?

They are great if done properly

"After two to three warm up sets, go balls out for one max set attempting to hit either a weight or rep PR and shooting for at least 20 reps per set."

They are basically a widowmaker for the back so not sure why your reps are so low?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> YES YES YES, get it in you now, you dirty fvcking roider
> 
> Kickstart with dbol, end with var? What doses are you running everything and for how long?


Haha stop you're making me excited :laugh:

Will likely be september mate. I want to get low bodyfat this time and natty that way i'll hopefully soak it up like a sponge while trying to remain lean :laugh:

Not sure on the doses yet mate. My limited research tells me no greater than 50mg dbol and probably 80mg var. I dont want to hit a 2nd cycle too heavy lol.



MutantX said:


> Well that's the key, whatever works for you.
> 
> I train to 'positive failure' which basically means I stop when I'm having to grind the weight up.
> 
> ...


Yeah mate. I was seriously overtrained when going to failure. Going to failure generally had me trembling afterwards and coughing up sh1t.

I worked out 2-3 days per week that way about 6 working sets to failure per session. It could probably have been a multitude of reasons but i dont think nutrition/rest was either of them. Possibly my lifting recovery ability at that stage was very low. Im not sure. I just no when pieman told me to stop i started hitting a lot more pbs.



MutantX said:


> How are you doing the Kroc rows?
> 
> They are great if done properly
> 
> ...


I'll need to find a link mate but basically powerful reps with a full exrension and brief pause. Db turned inwards slightly.

The only reason im hitting them for 6 reps is because im using the IA power template mate which outlines exercises 1-5/6 the type of exercises ie compound at start and the rep ranges for each. So squats are 3x5, tris are 3x10, abs calves 3x15 etc

Im just following the template like the newb that i am :lol:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

On a different note. Anyone know of any decent reasonably priced dumbbell setups i could look into. I dont mind if its a spinlock type arrangement where i add plates. So long as i can get substantial weight on the bells. 40-50kg maybe. Ive seen a few but not sure of their capacity half the time.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8050

That the routine?

IA routines are proven to be great especially for people with bad/average genetics and always speak highly of them


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

MutantX said:


> http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8050
> 
> That the routine?
> 
> IA routines are proven to be great especially for people with bad/average genetics and always speak highly of them


Thats the bad boy right there 

I enjoy it quite a lot actually. I didnt know that but yeah i would lump myself right in the '****ey genetics' camp alright :lol:


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

"Sets are NOT taken to failure, at least 1 rep short, or to the point RIGHT before form starts to break down. If you do not recover well."

- IA

pretty much what I do anyway, he also explains that he recommends straight sets to clients he's not working with because they would ask too many questions about ramping lol


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

Kroc Rows explenation:

Ensure a full range of motion by fully extending the shoulder at the bottom of the movement and really pulling it up and back at the top.

Your shoulders should be kept higher than your hips and your upper back should be at approximately a 15-degree angle to the floor.

Row the dumbbell in a straight line from directly below your chest up to the lower portion of your rib cage.

You can perform Kroc rows with one hand and one knee on a flat bench or standing with your non-rowing hand braced on something solid.

Rotate between performing Kroc rows with and without straps to reap the most benefit from the movement.

After two to three warm up sets, go balls out for one max set attempting to hit either a weight or rep PR and shooting for at least 20 reps per set.

Perform Kroc rows with as much weight as possible and strive to go to complete muscular failure on the final set.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

MutantX said:


> "Sets are NOT taken to failure, at least 1 rep short, or to the point RIGHT before form starts to break down. If you do not recover well."
> 
> - IA
> 
> pretty much what I do anyway, he also explains that he recommends straight sets to clients he's not working with because they would ask too many questions about ramping lol


Yup one or two short for me as well unless it takes that failure rep to hit a target. If i can comfortably do more without failing then i go for it 

As for the krocs thats exactly what i do....apart from the 20reps but thats just been due to the template.

I didnt realise that was the reason he specified straight sets right enough :laugh:


----------



## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> On a different note. Anyone know of any decent reasonably priced dumbbell setups i could look into. I dont mind if its a spinlock type arrangement where i add plates. So long as i can get substantial weight on the bells. 40-50kg maybe. Ive seen a few but not sure of their capacity half the time.


Check post number 3 in this thread mate, I've got the links to the dumb bells and weights I'm buying if I can't find them second hand 

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/equipment/233745-anyone-recommend-70kg-home-dumb-bells.html


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Yup one or two short for me as well unless it takes that failure rep to hit a target. If i can comfortably do more without failing then i go for it
> 
> As for the krocs thats exactly what i do....apart from the 20reps but thats just been due to the template.
> 
> I didnt realise that was the reason he specified straight sets right enough :laugh:


Stick up a starting and current pic for comparison if you can mate, seems like you have come a far way after reading through a bit :thumbup1:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Check post number 3 in this thread mate, I've got the links to the dumb bells and weights I'm buying if I can't find them second hand
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/equipment/233745-anyone-recommend-70kg-home-dumb-bells.html


Ive been looking around a bit mate. Argos have the same brand plates. 12x5kg for 70quid. Tesco currently have them a slightly cheaper but its one power brand....not that it matters lol.

i'm going to look at the cheapy mid range bench/weight combos argos have and see if any are worth a pop. As long as they have decent capacity (not that itll need much for me and my mighty press :lol: )



MutantX said:


> Stick up a starting and current pic for comparison if you can mate, seems like you have come a far way after reading through a bit :thumbup1:


I'll probably wait until the next journal i do mate and stick up a picture. Ive been up and down. I started at around 9ish. Bulked with ****ty diet and got around 12 fat. Cut to about 9-9.5 lol. Then followed simons advice for a bit. Went to about 11 with some fat natty then used aas and hit 13. Now ive cut natty and aiming to get around 11 with low bodyfat for next cycle. I regret cycling at a highish bodyfat level but hey ho... we learn lol.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Did my weigh in this morning also (day late)

Came in at 73.8kg so another decent loss. I was 74.2 middle of last week so the carb up leptin saturday definitely seems to have some merit.

Definitely getting leaner but struggling to fvck off the tyre around my lower waist and nowhere near happy enough.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Worst session in a long long time. Bench strength is dwindling now.

After all the recent discussion i tried ramping sets.

Flat BB Bench Press - 60x5, 65x3, 40x15

Inc DB Bench Press - 24x8, 22x7,7

OHP - 30x8, 35x8, 40x6

DB skulls - 10x10, 12x8, 14x3

I no longer feel any pec activation in my chest when pressing, It feels like an entire shoulder barrage and its now just becoming painful. When i dropped it down for a high rep final set i was actually able to push the bar with my chest and feel it working. Is it maybe worth switching pressing movements in a higher rep range. I understand low reps are good for keeping strength high on a cut but its no longer working for me.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Worst session in a long long time. Bench strength is dwindling now.
> 
> After all the recent discussion i tried ramping sets.
> 
> ...


If i was you i would only do DBs as your first movement and do the BB for the 2nd.

do a rep scheme that feels right. If something feels wrong and you aren't progressing then it probably isn't


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

simon is right with regards to using the set/rep scheme you find easiest to work with and 'get on with'

Also I wouldn't have advised ramping on that routine anyway mate, maybe should have made that clear.

Just remember 1 bad workout means fvck all so dont go making major changes based on it..


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> If i was you i would only do DBs as your first movement and do the BB for the 2nd.
> 
> do a rep scheme that feels right. If something feels wrong and you aren't progressing then it probably isn't


I did consider this mate but just been feeling as i everything is battering my front delts rather than chest. I'll start out with dbs next time and decide from there whether a weight drop/rep scheme alteration is needed.

I dont know how to explain properly but it now feels like its my entire body pushing the weight up as opposed to target muscle groups.



MutantX said:


> simon is right with regards to using the set/rep scheme you find easiest to work with and 'get on with'
> 
> Also I wouldn't have advised ramping on that routine anyway mate, maybe should have made that clear.
> 
> Just remember 1 bad workout means fvck all so dont go making major changes based on it..


For sure mate. I know they do happen and expect them from time to time. Ive just been feeling my shoulders getting raped more and more every session and feel like my chest is becoming a bit absent in the low reps.

I must have misread your previous post mate. I thought you meant IA actually advises ramping on the routine but doesnt write it out that way because people like me ask too many questions lol.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I did consider this mate but just been feeling as i everything is battering my front delts rather than chest. I'll start out with dbs next time and decide from there whether a weight drop/rep scheme alteration is needed.
> 
> I dont know how to explain properly but it now feels like its my entire body pushing the weight up as opposed to target muscle groups.
> 
> ...


I have had the same issue. I now don't train my front delts with any isolations and I find that helps.

Maybe do all your Upper body push like this

Dumbbell bench (vary incline and flat)

DB OHP (maybe alternate this with upright row or even side raises)

cable or DB fly

this will take some onus away from your front delt and hopefully hit the target muscles more.

This may not be optimal in theory, but with a deficits and not great recovery genetics it might be what you need


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> I have had the same issue. I now don't train my front delts with any isolations and I find that helps.
> 
> Maybe do all your Upper body push like this
> 
> ...


I will stop commenting too much because believe it's best people take advice from one source for consistency but @bigtommy please don't go so low on reps for a tricep isolation!!!


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I have had the same issue. I now don't train my front delts with any isolations and I find that helps.
> 
> Maybe do all your Upper body push like this
> 
> ...


I probably will mate and put any bb pressing at low weight with high reps for now at least.

interesting you mention recovery. The last rack pull session took longer than normal to recover from and same with Mondays squats, im still sore.



MutantX said:


> I will stop commenting too much because believe it's best people take advice from one source for consistency but @bigtommy please don't go so low on reps for a tricep isolation!!!


Feel free to comment as often as you wish mate. Im interested. In terms of the db skulls. Problem was id never ramped before and thought i could get 6+ reps but wuickly realised i couldnt lol.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Maybe consider a refeed or a deload.

Cutting is a bitch sometimes


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Feel free to comment as often as you wish mate. Im interested. In terms of the db skulls. Problem was id never ramped before and thought i could get 6+ reps but wuickly realised i couldnt lol.


The joys of the first ramp session lol, takes a few sessions to get the weight right 

if your struggling with the volume due to cutting then IA does recommend dropping a set per exercise if needed mate


----------



## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Sorry you had a frustrating session, mate. If it helps I had pretty sh1t one today too, I think the lower cal's are catching up with me. I'm going to up them a bit and see if that helps.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Maybe consider a refeed or a deload.
> 
> Cutting is a bitch sometimes


You're telling me lol. Whats surprising is that it hasnt been so much arm strength. Thats usually the first to go.

I have no idea how you hit pbs in a hard cut mate. Thats exceptional.



MutantX said:


> The joys of the first ramp session lol, takes a few sessions to get the weight right
> 
> if your struggling with the volume due to cutting then IA does recommend dropping a set per exercise if needed mate


Ah, see i didnt know this either. This is why your inputs welcome  i dropped a set off db incline just going off feel but wasnt sure i should have. Good to know.



Monkey skeleton said:


> Sorry you had a frustrating session, mate. If it helps I had pretty sh1t one today too, I think the lower cal's are catching up with me. I'm going to up them a bit and see if that helps.


I think its the lowish cals too mate, and less sleep (god knows how you do it) i had a few short nights sleep and it caught up with me. I slept 11 hrs last night! Lol


----------



## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Lots of good info in here of late, reading with interest.

Training today bud?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

faultline said:


> Lots of good info in here of late, reading with interest.
> 
> Training today bud?


I'm not mate no. Back in tomorrow for some lower with a dash of bicep  . I'll be sticking with some rack pulls over deads to keep the strain off injury prone lower back. I actually feel like theyre doing more for hitting traps than deadlifts do. After deadlifts i have sore lower back, after rack pulls i have sore traps.

Being injured sucks...as you know mate.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> I'm not mate no. Back in tomorrow for some lower with a dash of bicep  . I'll be sticking with some rack pulls over deads to keep the strain off injury prone lower back. I actually feel like theyre doing more for hitting traps than deadlifts do. After deadlifts i have sore lower back, after rack pulls i have sore traps.
> 
> Being injured sucks...as you know mate.


How did your back feel when doing the sumo deads mate?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

MutantX said:


> How did your back feel when doing the sumo deads mate?


Its hard to say because i didnt lift them near my maximum capacity the last time. My back was okay after some rest but when i decided to deadlift at my limit i fvcked it up again. I think when its recovered again then i need to stick to 80-90% and just stop at the real grinding reps where my form maybe goes just marginally. Either that or just do rack pulls, which tbh feel like theyre doing a lot more for my upper back in any case.


----------



## Heath (Mar 3, 2011)

bigtommay said:


> Its hard to say because i didnt lift them near my maximum capacity the last time. My back was okay after some rest but when i decided to deadlift at my limit i fvcked it up again. I think when its recovered again then i need to stick to 80-90% and just stop at the real grinding reps where my form maybe goes just marginally. Either that or just do rack pulls, which tbh feel like theyre doing a lot more for my upper back in any case.


With rack pulls I like to do them with a back-shrug at the top, i.e. you pull your delts back, chest out and tense your upper back.

Great back/traps movement and if you find it better on your lower back then stick to them


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Didnt manage a fri gym session due to work but will try and squeeze a quick one in at the weekend.

Been doing a bit of research tonight into potential routines for on cycle and came up with something like this. 4days per week.

1. Upper Power

2. Legs Power/Hypertrophy mix

3. Back and shoulders hypertrophy

4. Chest and arms hypertrophy with abs (at home using dumbells and light barbell stuff for safety)

I like it because its a mix of low rep high rep and enables me to hit everything upper twice per week with the exception of legs which id rather lay off a bit now and prioritise. (I'll still be hitting them as much as most others with 1xper week)

I also have scope to switch things around should i wish to. For example i might find that shoulders/arms and back chest work out better for me.

May also swap the shoulder power/hypertrophy days around also to give shoulders some prioritisation with heavy weights rather than putting them in behind big chest power moves with burned out delts (kind of like current routine). Seems to be plenty of scope.

In case anyone cant tell its a tweak to the 5day PHAT programme but i wont be starting out with quite so much volume.

Thoughts would be welcome.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Change of gym today. Left out all posterior work to give my back a rest and generally did what i felt like.

Machine row (palms facing grip)- 76.5x6,5 85.5x5

Hammer Leg Press (45degrees) - 253x8,8,7

Vbar lat Pulldown - 67.5x6,5,5

Hammer Curls - 10x12,10,6

Lateral raises - 8x10,8,8

Calf raises - 50x12,12,12

Nice to try a hammer leg press this time.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Didnt manage a fri gym session due to work but will try and squeeze a quick one in at the weekend.
> 
> Been doing a bit of research tonight into potential routines for on cycle and came up with something like this. 4days per week.
> 
> ...


Looks good. Not dissimilar to me. Just nail your first 2 lifts on the upper/lower days and do the rest by feel. The hypertrophy days can be different each week. Just make sure you are progressing on what you do lift


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

It has a good balance and flexibility and i can work with a light weight/high rep day at home once i get the equipment in. Look forward to starting it and also getting into a slight surplus. I just feel like i aint ever gonna shift this stomach fat off though even at such a light bodyweight. Its a right b1tch. Im going to hit hiit cardio hard next week i think.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> It has a good balance and flexibility and i can work with a light weight/high rep day at home once i get the equipment in. Look forward to starting it and also getting into a slight surplus. *I just feel like i aint ever gonna shift this stomach fat off though even at such a light bodyweight. Its a right b1tch. Im going to hit hiit cardio hard next week i think.*


I know that feel. The fat seems to be disappearing from everywhere but my stomach and chest, so frustrating.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

This mornings weigh in. 73kg. (-0.8kg)

The bagels, cereal, muffins, cookies, chocolate, ice cream, pizza, chips, haribo, alcohol on saturday must have helped :laugh:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Today was better. Switching the priority power lift to dbs and increasing reps on barbell bench allowed me to feel my chest work today while leaving something in the tank for shoulders.

Incline DB Bench Press - 26x6,6,5

Flat BB Bench Press - 50x8,8

DB Seated Shoulder Press - 18x8,8, 20x7 (up in weight/reps)

Vbar tri pushdowns - 32x10,10,7 (up in reps)


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> This mornings weigh in. 73kg. (-0.8kg)
> 
> The bagels, cereal, muffins, cookies, chocolate, ice cream, pizza, chips, haribo, alcohol on saturday must have helped :laugh:


Lucky you! I'm still up 2.3kg from the sh!te I had Saturday night!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

nice work mate. bang bang


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Lucky you! I'm still up 2.3kg from the sh!te I had Saturday night!


Have you tried lowering your protein/fat and eating high gi? (Think i must have hit about 4000+cals but only 100g protein) Then the next day going almost no carb but normal pro/fat.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Have you tried lowering your protein/fat and eating high gi? (Think i must have hit about 4000+cals but only 100g protein) Then the next day going almost no carb but normal pro/fat.


Nah I usually tend to hit 200g protein and then just eat whatever I want in the night.

Do you do the no carbs to drop water and glycogen weight that you'd have out on?

The day after a cheat meal is the worst for me, I wake up starving and can't satisfy my appetite, that's when I'm most likely to binge again :lol:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Nah I usually tend to hit 200g protein and then just eat whatever I want in the night.
> 
> Do you do the no carbs to drop water and glycogen weight that you'd have out on?
> 
> The day after a cheat meal is the worst for me, I wake up starving and can't satisfy my appetite, that's when I'm most likely to binge again :lol:


Yes but thats only a cheat meal youre having mate. If you made it an entire day of carbs then you might feel differently the next day or so about things :lol:


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

My own plan for this week is to keep diet same as last but introduce more hiit sessions/intensity and try and drop weight off that way. I want to try and keep the carbs as high as possible for energy.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

bigtommay said:


> Yes but thats only a cheat meal youre having mate. If you made it an entire day of carbs then you might feel differently the next day or so about things :lol:


I'm definitely not drinking again this month. Saturday I'll have loads of carbs. Maybe I'll have 3 or 4 bowls of protein porridge, I fvcking love protein porridge.

Then I'll have something dirty in the night, maybe 2 large pizzas from Pizza Hut and a tub of Ben and Jerry's, I won't be able to move on Sunday lol


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Try and post this in the corrcr journal this time..

Had my first HIIT cardio session for the week last night. Aiming for 3 or 4 this week to see what effect this has as ive prioritising diet above cardio so far.

Also a note for future reference at current cals.

Workout days (m/w/f) - Just under 2200cals (165g carbs)

Non workout days (tu/th) - 1850 cals (85g carbs)

Refeed (sat) - approx 4000 cals (nearly all carbs, protein 1g/lb)

Low carb (sun) - 1400 to 1500 cals (<30g carbs)

Protein always at 1.5/lb except refeeds.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Seem to be shedding weight at ann incredible rate tbis week so far and not sure why. Only things thay have changed is swapped basmati to white and chicken to steak at night and an increase in water. Everything else is the same. Went from 73 on Monday to 72.3 today lol.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

L


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> L


... Man No2 ? :laugh:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Todays workout went quite well. Swapped to front squats and its worked well for my back. I switched from kroc to bb rows for a change which wasnt quite so good for my back :laugh:

Front Squats - 80x10,10 100x4

BOR - 60x6,6,6

Recline DB curls - 12x8,8,6 (increased reps) then light set using 6kg.

Leg Press calves - sloooow 86x15,12,10

Missed hams out today from lack of time.

Think my front squatting is still pretty good for a 72kg dude.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> L


Sorry, pocket typo.

I think you are reabing the benefits of high carb day saturdays.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Sorry, pocket typo.
> 
> I think you are reabing the benefits of high carb day saturdays.


Lol it happens. I was reading your journal yesterday, switched off phone then came back on and posted my update in your journal :laugh:

Yes i hope its to do with the refeed. Pretty unexpected anyway. My physique is now very weird. Im seeing definition now on my stomach at the top (bottoms still fat) it's a bit but its like part of a puffed out tubby stomach lol. This never happened before. Must be age catching up with me :laugh:


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Sorry, pocket typo.
> 
> I think you are reabing the benefits of high carb day saturdays.


Lol it happens. I was reading your journal yesterday, switched off phone then came back on and posted my update in your journal :laugh:

Yes i hope its to do with the refeed. Pretty unexpected anyway. My physique is now very weird. Im seeing definition now on my stomach at the top (bottoms still fat) with a bit of a puffed out tubby stomach lol. This never happened before. Must be age catching up with me :laugh:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Lol it happens. I was reading your journal yesterday, switched off phone then came back on and posted my update in your journal :laugh:
> 
> Yes i hope its to do with the refeed. Pretty unexpected anyway. My physique is now very weird. Im seeing definition now on my stomach at the top (bottoms still fat) with a bit of a puffed out tubby stomach lol. This never happened before. Must be age catching up with me :laugh:


when there's no fat to lose elsewhere it has to go


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Flat DB bench - 28x5,5,6

OHP - 30X8, 40x8,6

Inc db flyes - couple sets. Picked light weight and repped away.

Db skulls - 10x10,10,8 (think this is more reps)

Seated db side raises - 6x15,12,9


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

All going well on here, are you still doing the modified phat routine?


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

faultline said:


> All going well on here, are you still doing the modified phat routine?


Thanks mate. 

I'm currently doing IA power routine on the cut. I'm looking at moving to a 4day on cycle similar to PHAT. I think it'd kill me to do it just now so waiting to have some extra calories in me.

I just seen your recent session, holy fvck lol. How you feeling after that? You should continue it for a while and see if it works.


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Front squats. Never could master them. Good weight do mate!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robc1985 said:


> Front squats. Never could master them. Good weight do mate!


Cheers mate. Yeah it seems like a lot of folk just dont get on with them. I like them for giving hips and back a break.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Weight today was 72.8kg after about what must have been about 6000 cals yesterday so my net loss so far this week is 0.2kg with proper weigh in tomorrow morning after no carb day today.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Weight today was 72.8kg after about what must have been about 6000 cals yesterday so my net loss so far this week is 0.2kg with proper weigh in tomorrow morning after no carb day today.


boom. 72.3kg today (0.7kg lost in the week) and probably still dropping.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> boom. 72.3kg today (0.7kg lost in the week) and probably still dropping.


nice work mate, nice work. You'd be 70KG in 3-4 weeks!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> nice work mate, nice work. You'd be 70KG in 3-4 weeks!


Cheers mate. Yeah thats the plan, i'll see what shape i'm in at 70kg. Ideally i dont want to go below 68kg.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Trained a bit later today and had to call it off early. Was doing Rack Pulls with 170 hit the 4th rep and felt a crunch in my back. I called off rack pulls there and then and went on to try some supported rows but just felt a lot of aggravation and called it a day. I was doing the reack pulls strapless which i dont think helped me as my concentration was on grip rather than form and i probably let it slip for a split second.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh dear, get some ibuprofen in you and take it easy for a few days!

Hope you have a speedy recovery mate


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Oh dear, get some ibuprofen in you and take it easy for a few days!
> 
> Hope you have a speedy recovery mate


Cheers mate. Its quite a sore one.


----------



## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Going well mate. Be down to 70kg in No time


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

On the scales again out of curiosity today...still dropping - 71.8kg


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Say it.

Pieman was right :lol:

sorry been watching breaking bad again


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Say it.
> 
> Pieman was right :lol:
> 
> sorry been watching breaking bad again


I never seen it mate so i have no idea. I heard its good though lol.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Here's me current nick. Abs should hopefully be here soon.



Question - Is it possible that my pecs could ever join when i add some mass or am i simply fvcked by genetics?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

looking almost ready for bulky, bulky time


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> looking almost ready for bulky, bulky time


I just dont want to do it until i'm at a bodyfat level i'm happy with this time. And there will be no more 4000+cals per day lol.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I just dont want to do it until i'm at a bodyfat level i'm happy with this time. And there will be no more 4000+cals per day lol.


fair enough. move up slower through the calorie levels.

Are you going for a kicker on your cycle? If so I think I wouldn't go lower than 70KG


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> fair enough. move up slower through the calorie levels.
> 
> Are you going for a kicker on your cycle? If so I think I wouldn't go lower than 70KG


Yeah, i made the mistake last time of listening to posts where people advise smashing down the easy calories, that doesnt seem to work so well for me lol. I definitely want to keep my waistline in check.

Yes mate using dbol to start. Do you reckon i could get a decent recomp effect at the outset on lowish calories?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Yeah, i made the mistake last time of listening to posts where people advise smashing down the easy calories, that doesnt seem to work so well for me lol. I definitely want to keep my waistline in check.
> 
> Yes mate using dbol to start. Do you reckon i could get a decent recomp effect at the outset on lowish calories?


I'd expect so. Particularly if you taper calories up


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Rugby training today. And I ran home after ouchy.

However the missus had made me a moussaka. Win


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Not trained in over a week. Have been letting my back heal.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Not trained in over a week. Have been letting my back heal.


Thought it'd been a bit quiet in here, how long do you think it'll be till it's 100%? Could always do some high rep chest work?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Thought it'd been a bit quiet in here, how long do you think it'll be till it's 100%? Could always do some high rep chest work?


I considered it mate but i took the decision i needed a break. It was bothering me just moving and walking and ive never heard any snapping noises before like it. Doctor said its fine and referred me to 'the physio'. Ive just took some time off work and decided to have a bit of a break. Managed to stick to my diet okay though.

I reckon i might be back doing something on friday mate.

Hows it going with yourself? Will have to pop over to yiur journal...ive took a bit of a break from the forum as well.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> Thought it'd been a bit quiet in here, how long do you think it'll be till it's 100%? Could always do some high rep chest work?


I considered it mate but i took the decision i needed a break. It was bothering me just moving and walking and ive never heard any snapping noises before like it. Doctor said its fine and referred me to 'the physio'. Ive just took some time off work and decided to have a bit of a break. Managed to stick to my diet okay though.

I reckon i might be back doing something on friday mate.

Hows it going with yourself? Will have to pop over to yiur journal...ive took a bit of a break from the forum as well.


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Hope you're reyt mate


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> I considered it mate but i took the decision i needed a break. It was bothering me just moving and walking and ive never heard any snapping noises before like it. Doctor said its fine and referred me to 'the physio'. Ive just took some time off work and decided to have a bit of a break. Managed to stick to my diet okay though.
> 
> I reckon i might be back doing something on friday mate.
> 
> Hows it going with yourself? Will have to pop over to yiur journal...ive took a bit of a break from the forum as well.


Diet's the main thing when taking a break from the gym, my old gym closed down a month ago and my friend hasn't signed up to a new one yet but carried on eating how he used, he's put on a sh!t load of weight. How long have you got left of your cut?

All great with me, back to bulking and only 5 weeks left of natty life


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robc1985 said:


> Hope you're reyt mate


Cheers mate. I'm getting there. I'm going to have to lay iff those bloody deadlifts a bit though 



robdobbie said:


> Diet's the main thing when taking a break from the gym, my old gym closed down a month ago and my friend hasn't signed up to a new one yet but carried on eating how he used, he's put on a sh!t load of weight. How long have you got left of your cut?
> 
> All great with me, back to bulking and only 5 weeks left of natty life


I think i'm going to begin to tail it off on it now mate and eat maintenance. Not exactly where i'd hoped to be but i have a flat stomach now and managed to keep my arms no lower than 14 inches for once :lol:

I'll probably begin the goodies in 3-4 weeks. Around the same time as you then.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

How's your injury mate? Back on track yet?


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> How's your injury mate? Back on track yet?


Feels okay now mate but i have yet to test it. Ive done some moderate upper body work but that's about it. Really just want to make sure its had adequate rest before the joooos!

The time is almost here for you mate. You must be drooling :lol:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Feels okay now mate but i have yet to test it. Ive done some moderate upper body work but that's about it. Really just want to make sure its had adequate rest before the joooos!
> 
> The time is almost here for you mate. You must be drooling :lol:


Good to hear, definitely makes sense to be 100% before you get back on cycle. 4 & 1/2 weeks left!!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

you still around kiddo?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> you still around kiddo?


hes back today!


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

we can be cycle buddies!


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Haha no mate i decided against running any more gear and flogged it all which is why i said what i said earlier.

Like i alluded to earlier, the gym lifestyle was getting in the way of life. I was finding myself cooking and having to eat too much around my kid when she wants to do fun stuff and it kills that quality time. My girlfriend also thinks trying to get muscles, fvcking up my back and spending all our money on food is a bit pointless :lol: . I dont want to be a bad boyfriend and bad dad so decided to cut some slack. I just go to the gym now when its a good time and eat what i want really.

Hasnt done me too much harm, i look even more **** but i still pulled a pb deadlift of 195 at 71kg a couple of weeks back....all on about 100g pro per day. Hmmm lol. I always thought it was overrated lol.


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I've been in a similar position to you over the last couple of months, new job doing more hours and training and cooking food, I had no time for family!

So I'm doing it when I get the chance like you and eating is more relaxed, not doing any harm so far, see how it goes.

Family has to come first.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Haha no mate i decided against running any more gear and flogged it all which is why i said what i said earlier.
> 
> Like i alluded to earlier, the gym lifestyle was getting in the way of life. I was finding myself cooking and having to eat too much around my kid when she wants to do fun stuff and it kills that quality time. My girlfriend also thinks trying to get muscles, fvcking up my back and spending all our money on food is a bit pointless :lol: . I dont want to be a bad boyfriend and bad dad so decided to cut some slack. I just go to the gym now when its a good time and eat what i want really.
> 
> Hasnt done me too much harm, i look even more **** but i still pulled a pb deadlift of 195 at 71kg a couple of weeks back....all on about 100g pro per day. Hmmm lol. I always thought it was overrated lol.


195 would annoy me personally, think you should at least lift a 200, then retire :tt2:


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Good luck in whatever you do mate. Family are the glue in life


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

faultline said:


> I've been in a similar position to you over the last couple of months, new job doing more hours and training and cooking food, I had no time for family!
> 
> So I'm doing it when I get the chance like you and eating is more relaxed, not doing any harm so far, see how it goes.
> 
> Family has to come first.


Spot on mate. I try my best but when youre out and your daughter wants to do stuff and eat mcds and your like 'eh no i cant do that cos ive got to eat or got to cook meals' its not fair.

I enjoy training so will continue doing that but as third priority.



simonthepieman said:


> Good luck in whatever you do mate. Family are the glue in life


Always the philosopher lol. Cheers mate as always. Csnt wait to see your aas adventure.


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## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

robdobbie said:


> 195 would annoy me personally, think you should at least lift a 200, then retire :tt2:


Haha it wasnt intentional mate. I counted it wrong somehow. I pulled 180 before but knew i had more in me when i did that one. I think you saw the video of that one. I was going for 190 this time. Backs not been great since mind.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

The phillospher, that was what my old MD called me when he gave a reference :lol:

fingers cross, I will start monday. Lets see how long it is before the missus kicks up a stink. I have a feeling she thinks i will be taking pills and will flip when she see i've got vials. Too late now:devil2:


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