# Oral steroid cycles for bulking?



## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

*Hi guys, some of you know me but I haven't been on this forum for about 6 months.*

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My question goes to the real bodybuilders which know steroids and what they do inside out ... only.*

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I have done several cycles of gear about 2 years ago now but would like to try something new... Orals.. and Oral only?*

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(Q) with the appropriate training and diet (which I have covered) can I bulk on Oral steroids only?*

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I am 12 half stone at the moment. I am pretty lean as I run 3-5 miles every other day to keep fit.*

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Any information someone can give me I will appreciate .*

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Thanks*
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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

yes of course you can although running injectables would be lots better due to dosage times and toxicity .


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

maybe a Dbol & Anavar combo ? Like week 1-6Dbol week 1-8 or even 10 anavar?


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

I was looking at my first cycle to be 5 dianabol a day (5tabs spread across the day) for 4-6 weeks?

or is my 5 a day calculated wrong?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

powerhouseh said:


> I was looking at my first cycle to be 5 dianabol a day (5tabs spread across the day) for 4-6 weeks?
> 
> or is my 5 a day calculated wrong?


due to half life of dbol taken twice a day is fine so am/pm .

what mg tabs are they ?


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

Not sure mate, Im getting them in 100's ... thats all i know atm from a friend of a friend.

are they not just 5mg per tab


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

no spud, you can get 10mg tabs also


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

powerhouseh said:


> Not sure mate, Im getting them in 100's ... thats all i know atm from a friend of a friend.
> 
> are they not just 5mg per tab


do you know the brand ?


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

o ok, so if they come in 5-10 mg per tab.. okey dokey


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

same again mate, i dont know. but i shall find out the dosage and the pharma which made it and see tell you guys when i know.. for your approval if you like?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

i would say:

150mg/day Oxys. Why? 8-9 hour half life. so take morning, afternoon and before bed, and you get a pretty even blood level of the drug.

100mg/day D-bol. Why? short half life, about 4.5 hours. take 5 (5mg) tabs 4x day.

Oxys don't aromatise, dbol does.

Oxys are progesterone based, dbol is test based.

there you go. 8-12 weeks depending on your goals..

worried about taking oxys for that long? AIDS wasting studies run 150mg/day for 30+ weeks and find it safe and effective:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8785183


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Aus, what do you find Oxys give you? Never really looked into it due to the old stories about them being harsh etc?


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

oxys.. Oxandrolone ?? i have read up about it and it doesnt aromatise... which is good so i dont have to take nolvadex etc.

there isnt many site in the uk which sell it (sources)

I shall see if i can ask around my friend sources and see if we can find it (price etc)

in the write ups it sounds good stuff.

cheers Ausbuilt


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

bayman said:


> Aus, what do you find Oxys give you? Never really looked into it due to the old stories about them being harsh etc?


yeah i know the old stories- but they're just that.. after all they are given at high doses to AIDS patients, who cope fine, and they are not even healthy... in fact its in AIDS related cachexia (body wasting) that keeps them being legally manufactured..

ok, for the last 8months, my base cycle is 2g of test,1g of equipoise and 600mg tren e every week.

I do a month on, then a month of with 150mg/day oxys.

I gain about 0.5-1.0kg each time i do the oxys, and thats after i drop about 1kg in water total.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ewen said:


> due to half life of dbol taken twice a day is fine so am/pm .
> 
> what mg tabs are they ?


i like morning and tea time doses, but also like a dose pre wo for its effects on my training....... good intensity


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

powerhouseh said:


> oxys.. Oxandrolone ?? i have read up about it and it doesnt aromatise... which is good so i dont have to take nolvadex etc.
> 
> there isnt many site in the uk which sell it (sources)
> 
> ...


no mate, as in the link...

oxandralone is for women, and has no place for men bulking.

I meant oxymethenolone- anapolon 50 or androlic 50s are common trade names.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> i would say:
> 
> 150mg/day Oxys. Why? 8-9 hour half life. so take morning, afternoon and before bed, and you get a pretty even blood level of the drug.
> 
> ...


100mg dbol ed??


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> no mate, as in the link...
> 
> oxandralone is for women, and has no place for men bulking.
> 
> I meant oxymethenolone- anapolon 50 or androlic 50s are common trade names.


and A-bombs and green giants :lol:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

powerhouseh said:


> oxys.. Oxandrolone ?? i have read up about it and it doesnt aromatise... which is good so i dont have to take nolvadex etc.
> 
> there isnt many site in the uk which sell it (sources)
> 
> ...


there is NO legit oxandralone for sale through ANY UGL...

this is why- the raw oxandralone powder is FIVE times more expensive than the raw stanazolol (winny) powder.. yet UGLs sell the tabs at neary the same price, maybe 20% more for the anvar.. really? UGLs are so generous???

No man can tell the diff between an equal dose of anavar an winny... a woman can, but with 50mg tabs, even real anavar would prob effect a womans voice/clit/hair a little ..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> 100mg dbol ed??


yes, WITH 150mg oxy 50s.

sure show me where this is a problem with health


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

i ran dbol 50mg (pink thai hex) for about 8weeks then added 100mg drol (green anadrolics) in for another 3weeks and the whites in my eyes had gone yellow.... this is when i stopped lol


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Aus are you sure naps are progesterone derivatives, I've seen posts stating they're dht and test derivatives, so if you're right then they won't aggravate hair loss with mpb suffers? (slap heads  )


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Conscript said:


> Aus are you sure naps are progesterone derivatives, I've seen posts stating they're dht and test derivatives, so if you're right then they won't aggravate hair loss with mpb suffers? (slap heads  )


defo prog


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

stone14 said:


> i ran dbol 50mg (pink thai hex) for about 8weeks then added 100mg drol (green anadrolics) in for another 3weeks and the whites in my eyes had gone yellow.... this is when i stopped lol


lol did they proper, or are you takin the p!ss? someone said i looked yellow a few weeks ago...the whites of my eyes are almost blue


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> i ran dbol 50mg (pink thai hex) for about 8weeks then added 100mg drol (green anadrolics) in for another 3weeks and the whites in my eyes had gone yellow.... this is when i stopped lol


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495533/pdf/postmedj00303-0040.pdf

some of the patients got jaundice (yellow eyes is a sign), running 3-5mg/kg (i.e 300-500mg/day for a 100kg BB), and the issues went away when they REDUCED THE DOSE TO *150mg/day* and people on here roll their eyes at 150... i've not heard of anyone doing 500mg/day of oxys as a BB..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Conscript said:


> Aus are you sure naps are progesterone derivatives, I've seen posts stating they're dht and test derivatives, so if you're right then they won't aggravate hair loss with mpb suffers? (slap heads  )


yes mate, and i've posted that before on hair loss sites- deca and oxys as cycle if you're worried about hair line and still want mass..

http://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/0010-7824(75)90063-3/abstract

it inhibits progesterone synthesis-as a negative feedback- the body reads it as a progesterone metabolite..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

cas said:


> lol did they proper, or are you takin the p!ss? someone said i looked yellow a few weeks ago...the whites of my eyes are almost blue


they wernt iluminous lol but yellow enough to notice in the mirror as i glanced at myself lol, the whites of my eyes that were wisable when my eyes were open, when i pulled my lids back to inspect.... further back was still white but the front of my eyes had defo changed to a yellow colour, after stopping they when back to there normal colour.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> yes mate, and i've posted that before on hair loss sites- deca and oxys as cycle if you're worried about hair line and still want mass..


I might give these ago when I jump back on the test in Jan, can't think of any other hair friendly orals. :beer:


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

stone14 said:


> they wernt iluminous lol but yellow enough to notice in the mirror as i glanced at myself lol, the whites of my eyes that were wisable when my eyes were open, when i pulled my lids back to inspect.... further back was still white but the front of my eyes had defo changed to a yellow colour, after stopping they when back to there normal colour.


that would have freaked me right out! lol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> they wernt iluminous lol but yellow enough to notice in the mirror as i glanced at myself lol, the whites of my eyes that were wisable when my eyes were open, when i pulled my lids back to inspect.... further back was still white but the front of my eyes had defo changed to a yellow colour, after stopping they when back to there normal colour.


of course you know what your APT/ALT/SGOT/Bilirubin levels where like during your simpsons episode? Post 'em up...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495533/pdf/postmedj00303-0040.pdf
> 
> some of the patients got jaundice (yellow eyes is a sign), running 3-5mg/kg (i.e 300-500mg/day for a 100kg BB), and the issues went away when they REDUCED THE DOSE TO *150mg/day* and people on here roll their eyes at 150... i've not heard of anyone doing 500mg/day of oxys as a BB..


but were not dieing of aids lol, a bit jaundice is the least of there worries if it keeps them living lol


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> of course you know what your APT/ALT/SGOT/Bilirubin levels where like during your simpsons episode? Post 'em up...


haha no mate just going off what i seen


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> but were not dieing of aids lol, a bit jaundice is the least of there worries if it keeps them living lol


no that's a cancer study- aplastic aneamia- point is they are sick people, and when they had side effects, they dropped the dose to 150mg/day..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> no that's a cancer study- aplastic aneamia- point is they are sick people, and when they had side effects, they dropped the dose to 150mg/day..


ah right sorry dude, it just goes to show the toxicity of orals if over exagetated ALLOT!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> haha no mate just going off what i seen


so yellow eyeballs at front... kind of impossible.. as the whole eye would be yellow if it was jaundice... perhaps it was the 30w light in the seedy room you where in shooting up some hammer with a junkie hooker..

oops.. sorry was thinking about sex.. must be all the test..

just kidding, my point is i have a hard time believing part of your eye was yellow.. and on the doses you where talking about, and time frame.. of course if you're an alcoholic.. thats another story..


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> so yellow eyeballs at front... kind of impossible.. as the whole eye would be yellow if it was jaundice... perhaps it was the 30w light in the seedy room you where in shooting up some hammer with a junkie hooker..
> 
> oops.. sorry was thinking about sex.. must be all the test..
> 
> just kidding, my point is i have a hard time believing part of your eye was yellow.. and on the doses you where talking about, and time frame.. of course if you're an alcoholic.. thats another story..


so why would i lie dude?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> ah right sorry dude, it just goes to show the toxicity of orals if over exagetated ALLOT!


thats kind of my point...

so is this:

"...While generally safe for use at recommended doses (1,000 mg per single dose and up to 3,000 mg per day for adults),[6] acute *overdoses of paracetamol can cause potentially fatal liver damage and, in rare individuals, a normal dose can do the same*; the risk is heightened by alcohol consumption. *Paracetamol toxicity is the foremost cause of acute liver failure in the Western world*, and accounts for most drug overdoses in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol

yet no one has an issue taking 500mg-1000mg (1-2 tabs) daily..


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

stone14 said:


> so why would i lie dude?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> thats kind of my point...
> 
> so is this:
> 
> ...


ive always though there toxicity was overhyped but you dont realise to the extent, strange that they have the bad rep they have aswell for that...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Conscript said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica


the page does not exist :blowme:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> so why would i lie dude?


nope, never said that...

said i find it hard to believe based on what you would need to take to get jaundice... its not easy to achieve!!

As i said, it may have been alcohol consumption...

you may have taken a lot of DNP

or beta carotene supplements.. (vitamin A)


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> ive always though there toxicity was overhyped but you dont realise to the extent, strange that they have the bad rep they have aswell for that...


everyone here bangs on about how they worry for popping a few c-17 orals, yet get on the lash every fri/say night.. and pop paracetamol for the hangover...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

ausbuilt said:


> nope, never said that...
> 
> said i find it hard to believe based on what you would need to take to get jaundice... its not easy to achieve!!
> 
> ...


fair enough mate im not saying i had jaundice or that its easy to get, but i dont need to be a proffesional gp to see what my balls looked like lol :thumb:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> fair enough mate im not saying i had jaundice or that its easy to get, but i dont need to be a proffesional gp to see what my balls looked like lol :thumb:


now THAT i believe!!


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

i did like a drink over the wkend in them days when i had those... it was past of my 1st cycle designed by a guy in the gym :wacko:

back when i new nothing and believed the big guy..... and also my source of this lot

1-14 500mg test

6-13 400mg fake deca

1-8 50mg debol ed

9-14 100mg drol

kept all of my 26lb with no pct :thumb:


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Would love to do that in a cycle stacked with test ! 150 mg oxy is safe yes and 100mg of Dbol sound very nice indeed! 



ausbuilt said:


> i would say:
> 
> 150mg/day Oxys. Why? 8-9 hour half life. so take morning, afternoon and before bed, and you get a pretty even blood level of the drug.
> 
> ...


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

infernal0988 said:


> Would love to do that in a cycle stacked with test ! 150 mg oxy is safe yes and 100mg of Dbol sound very nice indeed!


these cancer and aids patients must be huge!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

stone14 said:


> these cancer and aids patients must be huge!


they don't train and don't eat enough protein, and have other health issues.. in their case, the AAS just help them have NORMAL bodymass...


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

mate no training and they suffer from muscle wasting , their bodies are dying and rotting and still they gain weight etc... And not only that but for 30 weeks +

Clearly Oxy`s liver toxicity and other sides, has been greatly blown out of proportion.


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

Speaking of paracetamol, Most supermarkets have realised the connection between paracetamol and liver toxicity, a they will only allow you to but 2 products containing it. eg. Lemsip and caplets.


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

I find it odd, some studies say that aas lowers you immune system...yet this is the main problem with aids is it not?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

cas said:


> I find it odd, some studies say that aas lowers you immune system...yet this is the main problem with aids is it not?


AIDS patients have no immune systme to speak of- the AAS is to combat thoracic wasting as a result...


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

Happy new year lads. hope you had a good one.

Ausbuilt - oxymethenolone known to be one the most effective/ strongest steroids available..

I still haven't found out the dosage or name of the tabs, but when I do I'll consult with you boys.


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

aside from the harshnesh of dbol and anadrol what about the huge water retention they bring. ive only done dbol for 4 weeks at 40mg ed and held a lot of water, is anadrol the same or maybe even worse?


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

Hi guys, I have got pro.chem.laboratories

Dianabol 10mg

I have 200tabs.

pinky purple circular tabs.

What would be my cycles and how many etc..?

Are these good pharma's ?

Cheers


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

Wanting to bulk, only


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

ojaysmoke said:


> aside from the harshnesh of dbol and anadrol what about the huge water retention they bring. ive only done dbol for 4 weeks at 40mg ed and held a lot of water, is anadrol the same or maybe even worse?


harsher than what?? i would happily swallow 3g of oxys over 3g of paracetamol:

While generally safe for use at recommended doses (1,000 mg per single dose and up to 3,000 mg per day for adults),[6] acute o*verdoses of paracetamo*l *can cause potentially fatal liver damage* and, *in rare individuals, a normal dose can do the same*; the *risk is heightened by alcoho*l consumption. Paracetamol toxicity is the foremost cause of acute liver failure in the Western world, and accounts for most drug overdoses in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand.[7][8][9][10]

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol

i don't see people getting liver failure from their oral steroid cycles...

as for *water retention- its diet related*- in my avi am on 150mg/day oxys and 2g+ test, 1g boldenone and 600mg tren.. yet am sunken in the cheeks and vasulcar... reason? 50g of carbs/day even when in thailand/cambodia- ate no rice... just salad..

if you eat high GI carbs, and sodium loaded food- you will swell like a balloon on androgens...



powerhouseh said:


> Hi guys, I have got pro.chem.laboratories
> 
> Dianabol 10mg
> 
> ...


you have 20days at 100mg/day. bit short in my books if thats all your doing..


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

This thread makes me want to pop the naps.

One question tho - u say Oxys don't aromatise but how comes there famous for water bloat?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Rav212 said:


> This thread makes me want to pop the naps.
> 
> One question tho - u say Oxys don't aromatise but how comes there famous for water bloat?


I think what Aus is getting at is when most ppl take oxy's they are bulking on high carbs etc.. Hence why they blow up!


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

So 10 tabs a day.

Why short?

And what should this cycle do for me?


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## RadMan23 (Dec 22, 2010)

powerhouseh said:


> Hi guys, I have got pro.chem.laboratories
> 
> Dianabol 10mg
> 
> ...


I used the same ones, they are really good. I was only using 40mg ED and blew up big time within about 3 weeks. Something like a stone and a half in weight. Mostly water but good strength gains from them.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> This thread makes me want to pop the naps.
> 
> One question tho - u say Oxys don't aromatise but how comes there famous for water bloat?


its impossible for oxys to aromatise. But don't forget thats not the only, nor even main cause of water retention:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12861436

is a possibility... but probably only if you're geneticially predisposed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8130120

but really its mostly the effect of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase

which regulates cell volume.. so if you take in to much Na (sodium in your diet) the effect really blows you up on AAS..



Hotdog147 said:


> I think what Aus is getting at is when most ppl take oxy's they are bulking on high carbs etc.. Hence why they blow up!


yep, carbs make it worse..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> This thread makes me want to pop the naps.
> 
> One question tho - u say Oxys don't aromatise but how comes there famous for water bloat?





powerhouseh said:


> So 10 tabs a day.
> 
> Why short?
> 
> And what should this cycle do for me?


AAS are good, not magic- you can't build muscle in 3weeks.. be lucky to see 1-2pouns of muscle... at best.



RadMan23 said:


> I used the same ones, they are really good. I was only using 40mg ED and blew up big time within about 3 weeks. Something like a stone and a half in weight. Mostly water but good strength gains from them.


yes, you can "blow up" then pi$$ it all away- its water- you cant put much fat on in 3 weeks, let alone muscle... the body doesnt' work that fast when it comes to anabolism..


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## Muscle (Oct 10, 2010)

Johnny claimed to put 40lbs PURE muscle on a 8 week dbol only cycle lol.


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

ok, so my bare question is...

with 200 10mg tabs, how would YOU recommend me take them.. ie, how long a cycle? how many a day?

i will have 2 protein shakes a day

creatine once or twice a day

reasonable diet, high fish intake

8-10hrs sleep period a night.

with all this plus you reccomendation on the gear intake what should I see at the end of my cycle?

cheers guys.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

If you cant get any more tabs then do 50mg ed for 40 days, sorted!!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Muscle said:


> Johnny claimed to put 40lbs PURE muscle on a 8 week dbol only cycle lol.


my peni$ got longer too :001_tt2:



powerhouseh said:


> ok, so my bare question is...
> 
> with 200 10mg tabs, how would YOU recommend me take them.. ie, how long a cycle? how many a day?
> 
> ...


2 protein shakes a day? what does that mean? i have to shakes a day 2- each shake is contains 70g of protein.. why? i used double the recommended serve per shake.. so my 2 shakes, made with water (USN ultra lean diet whey) provide 140g protein, and 14.4g of carbs.

High fish intake? what does this mean? I eat 1.5-1.6 kg of chicken/steak in a day over 3 meals. this gives around 375-400g protein.. depending on chicken/steaek break up...

OK conservatively, you need 1.8g protein per kg bodymass, though serious guys shoot for 2g/lb (thats more or less what i do).

what will you gain? who knows??? it depends on your training and nutrition... if you don't count water retention, and fat gain, over 6 weeks with 50mg/day, prob 2kg is possible- depends how much progress you've made naturally...



Hotdog147 said:


> If you cant get any more tabs then do 50mg ed for 40 days, sorted!!


not a bad approach if its the first cycle.. you really want 6 weeks as a minimum


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Ok let me chuck this one out there then

As both do not aromatise - what would produce the most lean gains: Anavar at 150mg ed or Oxys 150mg ed?

With a strict low carb diet and very low salt sodium diet?

I'm guessing alot of people going to say Oxys here but if so "why"? taking into account there's no water bloat aswell!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> Ok let me chuck this one out there then
> 
> As both do not aromatise - what would produce the most lean gains: Anavar at 150mg ed or Oxys 150mg ed?
> 
> ...


oxys.. proven in AIDS wasting studies and cancer studies.. more lean mass than anything else...

http://www.afboard.com/library/Review%20of%20Oxymetholone.pdf

its just the most effective...


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> oxys.. proven in AIDS wasting studies and cancer studies.. more lean mass than anything else...
> 
> http://www.afboard.com/library/Review%20of%20Oxymetholone.pdf
> 
> its just the most effective...


Aus, your just an oxy junky mate! lol


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

So what would u think of doing a cut on Oxys?

Ive never heard of any1 doing a cut in Oxys don't know y now! as it's seems to even put muscle on aids patience.

Why o why??


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Rav212 said:


> So what would u think of doing a cut on Oxys?
> 
> Ive never heard of any1 doing a cut in Oxys don't know y now! as it's seems to even put muscle on aids patience.
> 
> Why o why??


i know one person who has cut on Oxys...it worked rather well for him.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Rav212 said:


> So what would u think of doing a cut on Oxys?
> 
> Ive never heard of any1 doing a cut in Oxys don't know y now! as it's seems to even put muscle on aids patience.
> 
> Why o why??


I would use oxys for a cut, its just that there generalised as a bulker, IMO any AAS can be used for bulking or cutting, its all diet related isnt it


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> I would use oxys for a cut, its just that there generalised as a bulker, IMO any AAS can be used for bulking or cutting, its all diet related isnt it


thats not just your opinion mate, its well known that pretty much any aas can be used for a cutting cycle. in fact i feel steroids play a better part in cutting than bulking . anyone can bulk over time if not on aas, but cutting is totally different and where aas can help a lot


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> So what would u think of doing a cut on Oxys?
> 
> Ive never heard of any1 doing a cut in Oxys don't know y now! as it's seems to even put muscle on aids patience.
> 
> Why o why??


well in my AVI I DID cut on oxys... 150mg/day... when I bulk next i will try for 200mg/day.



Hotdog147 said:


> I would use oxys for a cut, its just that there generalised as a bulker, IMO any AAS can be used for bulking or cutting, its all diet related isnt it


when you cut you want to retain the most muscle mass- you don't need the highest dose of drugs.. just enough to retain muscle..

I may go in a comp this year...

and I"m starting to cut now... again.. and I just started oxys again at xmas.

When I'm 4weeks out of comp, I'll drop the oxys, and switch to masteron (or prefer halotestin if i can get it), winstrol and test test suspension... daily/

4 weeks out of a comp you may start about dropping the most water possible.. but comp shape is something you achieve for a day or 2 at most.. no one can hold it for long...

So apart from comp, for just cutting, i'd do 50-100mg/day of oxys of the winstrol or anavar ANY day of the week...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

cas said:


> thats not just your opinion mate, its well known that pretty much any aas can be used for a cutting cycle. in fact i feel steroids play a better part in cutting than bulking . anyone can bulk over time if not on aas, but cutting is totally different and where aas can help a lot


so true- you can to an extent bulk up/put some muscle on without AAS...

but when cutting, unless you want to lose your muscle first... AAS are ESSENTIAL.. doesnt have to be much, even 50mg/day.. but they do retain muscle..


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

so whats the matter with high dose while cutting aus?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

cas said:


> so whats the matter with high dose while cutting aus?


nothing at all.. I cut on alot higher dose than most (ie 150mg/oxys on top of 3.6g of injectables)..

but i'm not saying everyone should.. more that some is better than none!! LOL

and many newbies on here, like the OP, want an oral only cycle.. and most think somewhere in the 50-100mg/day anavar.. my point is at the SAME dose.. oxys are far better.. not an opinion, medically proven fact...


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Just finished reading that article aus.

So to clarify because they didn't talk much about the other gear listed there but out of the ones in the table. Oxymethylone,oxandroline,deca, stanzolol. Oxymethalone was the moat effective for the patients? Or was it the only one used in the study? Didn't quite catch that.


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

OK lads, so I'm looking at a good diet consisting of 160g of protein a day (80kg x2g protein =160g)

+ my 50mg of d-bol every day

4x5g creatine a day (advised loading phase)

2x 500mg L-Glutamine

2x vitamin c/zinc tabs

2x 54g instant mass protein shake.

progress pictures taken tonight... now set to re-join the gym after 8-10months..

cheers guys


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

I love anadrols, oxys, what ever you want to call them especially pharma :thumb:


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

I always thought Oxys were a bulking (what I call bulking are water retention steroids) now I feel like I'm wasting my time and liver on var at 150mg lol


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

powerhouseh said:


> OK lads, so I'm looking at a good diet consisting of 160g of protein a day (80kg x2g protein =160g)
> 
> + my 50mg of d-bol every day
> 
> ...


i probably would not even bother with the creatine bud


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

why not the creatine 'cas' ?


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

powerhouseh said:


> why not the creatine 'cas' ?


what do you think the creatine is going to do for you fella?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

cas said:


> what do you think the creatine is going to do for you fella?


Give him some water bloat maybe!! lol


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

Aus : OK conservatively, you need 1.8g protein per kg bodymass, though serious guys shoot for 2g/lb (thats more or less what i do)

... so per kilo or lbs? if per pound.. then ill have to double the 160g of protein ... roughly. 2.2lbs - 1kg


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

creatine does give me slight water retention, but gives me strength gains more than anything.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Rick89 said:


> I love anadrols, oxys, what ever you want to call them especially pharma :thumb:


Do u experience any bloat/water retention on them mate?


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

i look more watery around the arms.. less definition and my vein dont show as much, but nothing major. no bloating of the stomach mate


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> Just finished reading that article aus.
> 
> So to clarify because they didn't talk much about the other gear listed there but out of the ones in the table. Oxymethylone,oxandroline,deca, stanzolol. Oxymethalone was the moat effective for the patients? Or was it the only one used in the study? Didn't quite catch that.


they looked at the listed compounds, and even test, and concluded that in certain cases oxys are best.. depends on the patient.

thats my point too- not that everyone should take them, but that they are not as evil as they are made out ot be- based on hearsay- not on medical evidence..

the real point is that all c-17 steroids (ie ALL orals except for Andriol- test undecanoate) are much the same in terms of liver effects.. and dont' forget they admister oxys at 1-2mg (and in some other studies, 3-5mg/kg) for 3 to 6months at a time... and most patients are fine.. and those that do have issues are OK when they stop...

anavar has its place, and is excellent for women, and atheletes who need strength but dont want to jump a weight class..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

powerhouseh said:


> Aus : OK conservatively, you need 1.8g protein per kg bodymass, though serious guys shoot for 2g/lb (thats more or less what i do)
> 
> ... so per kilo or lbs? if per pound.. then ill have to double the 160g of protein ... roughly. 2.2lbs - 1kg


the 1.8 per pound is like an excepted minimum....

doubling that amount i.e 1.8g/kg is far better as far as muscle gains go on AAS (but not point when natural)


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## powerhouseh (Jun 16, 2011)

oki dokey.. so the corrected amount should be roughly 350g of protein a day for me.

cheers mate glad i got that cleared up


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

Rav212 said:


> Do u experience any bloat/water retention on them mate?


When diet is on the ball, little junk, plenty of vit c etc little water bloat ,

as expected when increase carbs and junk I experience water but nothing that cant be delt with if needed.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> they looked at the listed compounds, and even test, and concluded that in certain cases oxys are best.. depends on the patient.
> 
> thats my point too- not that everyone should take them, but that they are not as evil as they are made out ot be- based on hearsay- not on medical evidence..
> 
> ...


Let me just quote u here aus lol, u see I'm on 150mg ed var and get no water retention so most weight gain is muscle, if I was to jump on the Oxys here at 150mg instead with same diet and everything would u say i would gain more muscle with again no water retention? I don't care about jumping weight class as long as it's pure muscle.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> Let me just quote u here aus lol, u see I'm on 150mg ed var and get no water retention so most weight gain is muscle, if I was to jump on the Oxys here at 150mg instead with same diet and everything would u say i would gain more muscle with again no water retention? I don't care about jumping weight class as long as it's pure muscle.


i can't guarantee no water... but your LBM, after you lost the water would def be higher, mg for mg.. thats the point.

If you eat clean, low sodium, and follow a low carb diet (50g/day)... you won't have any water retention...


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

I'm guessing this is ure favourite LBM gaining AAS then? Or is there more lol?

So strange as the common conscious around forums and gyms is that naps are dirty bulkers!! Think I need to start spreading the truth and change these ways lol!

Thanks 4 the all the info aus!


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

ausbuilt:2736368 said:


> i can't guarantee no water... but your LBM, after you lost the water would def be higher, mg for mg.. thats the point.
> 
> If you eat clean, low sodium, and follow a low carb diet (50g/day)... you won't have any water retention...


aus i bloat alot on dbol and so i assume same will be for anadrol, however ive got some more dbol left over and thought about including it in my next bulking cycle. if i adopt a low carb diet as you suggest but keep fats and proteins high to give me enough calories to grow, would i still be able to put on as much lbm as say running a normal high carb diet. sorry if that sounds a bit confusing


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Rav212 said:


> I'm guessing this is ure favourite LBM gaining AAS then? Or is there more lol?
> 
> So strange as the common conscious around forums and gyms is that naps are dirty bulkers!! Think I need to start spreading the truth and change these ways lol!
> 
> Thanks 4 the all the info aus!


they can be dirty bulkers.. but tis the diet that makes for a dirty bulk..

My whole point on this forum.. is there's no perfect AAS, they all have different reasons for existing and use.. but when people say oxys are harsh and anavar mild.... the evidence does not support this (and comes from when real anavar was around- yes it was mild- it came in 2.5mg tabs, and was super expensive- no one did more than 10tabs day (25mg) so of course the sides where low... oxys always came in 50mg tabs.. but where always designed to increase LBM and RBC..)

I have a base cycle of test and other anabolics at a pretty high dose.. yet when i cycle oxys- 150mg/day for a month- i retain 0.5 to 1.0kg EVERY time..

when i first dieted down, i was 95kg after a low carb week, and 100kg on my carb day.. now i'm 100kg at the end of the week, and 105-6kg on my carb day..

I'm shooting for 105-107 at the end of the week with low carbs by next summer at 6-7% (am 8% now)

i get nice consistent gains with oxys.. adn during the month i may go up 1.5-2.0kg.. but i retain 0.5-1 when i come off.. which i'm damn happy about..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

ojaysmoke said:


> aus i bloat alot on dbol and so i assume same will be for anadrol, however ive got some more dbol left over and thought about including it in my next bulking cycle. if i adopt a low carb diet as you suggest but keep fats and proteins high to give me enough calories to grow, would i still be able to put on as much lbm as say running a normal high carb diet. sorry if that sounds a bit confusing


my cutting diet:

500g protein, 50g carbs, 50-70g fats (reduces to 50 eventually)

my bulking dietL

same as my cutting diet- with an extra 50-100g of carbs (i.e 100-150g total, LOW GI like sweet potatoe with dinner or slice of wholemeal bread with breakfast of 11egg whites, 1 whole egg).

so you will control your bloat by not loading salt in food (ie NO processed, purchased food- if you don't prepare it, measuring your salt- including NO ketchup- or counting the ketchup or mustard salt and reducing outher sources etc) and adjusting carbs up/down as required...

most are to lazy to prepare all their food... hence bloat/dirty bulk.. bulking is a few more cals than maintenance, not all ayou can eat pizza and pasta... with high sodium tomato sauce!!


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

ausbuilt:2736394 said:


> my cutting diet:
> 
> 500g protein, 50g carbs, 50-70g fats (reduces to 50 eventually)
> 
> ...


by my calculations you have around 3200cals while bulking , it seems alot lower than what gets preached around most forums but your results speak for them self. maybe less is better lol


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

ojaysmoke said:


> by my calculations you have around 3200cals while bulking , it seems alot lower than what gets preached around most forums but your results speak for them self. maybe less is better lol


correct... and here's why:

(posted on this loads)

1kg of muscle= 250g protein (the rest is water, just like your steak).

if you want 1kg of muscle per week- add 250g/week, or 35.7g/day of protein over maintenance.

You of course need to work out, you already do, so you say you will be taking more/stronger AAS and work out 20% harder. On average 1hour vigorous weights workout is 400cals (www.fitday.com)- 20% harder is 80cals.. say all extra energy from carbs- thats 20g of carbs extra...

lets be generous and round up protein to 40g/day and double carbs to 40g/day.. that my friends is 320cals over your maintenance cals (whatever they may be) in PROTEIN AND CARBS only... to build 1kg of muscle in a week..

of course you can only use all your protien for muscle building on AAS....

I sit behind a desk for work, and when dieting do 2x weights workout, and 30mins cardio/day... so I don't need to many cals..

your maintenance cals will differ based on metabolism and physcial work.. however, growth cals wont be different to the above..


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## ojaysmoke (Mar 27, 2010)

ausbuilt:2736416 said:


> correct... and here's why:
> 
> (posted on this loads)
> 
> ...


thanks for all the advice aus. top notch stuff as always


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

Great posts Aus! I'm currently trying to lean out whilst maintaining/gaining a little muscle before i start a lean bulk March time, just cruising on 250mg E10D at the mo im trying a high pro low carb high fat diet, notice ure only taking 50-70gs a day im on about 170 with this diet you think its to much? It fits in my macros but only having 300g pro so could loose some fat and raise the protein but from what i've read about 1.6g per lbs is enough? might give your approuch a bash mate


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Zangief said:


> Great posts Aus! I'm currently trying to lean out whilst maintaining/gaining a little muscle before i start a lean bulk March time, just cruising on 250mg E10D at the mo im trying a high pro low carb high fat diet, notice ure only taking 50-70gs a day im on about 170 with this diet you think its to much? It fits in my macros but only having 300g pro so could loose some fat and raise the protein but from what i've read about 1.6g per lbs is enough? might give your approuch a bash mate


IF you're on AAS, i think it makes sense to up protein and reduce cals to stay lean...

yes, 1.6-2.0g/lb is about right- i go the high end.. and lower carbs accordingly. At the end of the day.. if you're waist is getting bigger, and you fix your pro and fats.. you just play around with carb grams..


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

I was reading a Layne Nortan article about having 75% of your carbs pre - during & post wo seems to make sense to me, this something you've tried/do?


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## bossdog (Aug 25, 2011)

read all 8 pages and more confused than the start :confused1: i got myself some test250 but bottleing it on the jabs so gonna run orals as a first cycle and go from there, was thinking dbol but read a few threads that said tbol better as dont aromotise? now this seems to say oxys are the way to go, is there a right answer or is it personal choice,i want first cycle to give me the least possible sides has anyone got that answewr lol:thumbup1:


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## bossdog (Aug 25, 2011)

bossdog said:


> read all 8 pages and more confused than the start :confused1: i got myself some test250 but bottleing it on the jabs so gonna run orals as a first cycle and go from there, was thinking dbol but read a few threads that said tbol better as dont aromotise? now this seems to say oxys are the way to go, is there a right answer or is it personal choice,i want first cycle to give me the least possible sides has anyone got that answewr lol:thumbup1:


any help :blush:


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

Ummmmm lol....

Wat I've learnt over the couple of pages is that Oxys are just as liver toxic as any other 17aa oral and they don't aromatise.

That bit there that they don't aromatise says to me that in theory they should have less sides than something like dbol which does aromatise thus causing estrogenic side effects like acne,water bloat.

Yet many users do report sides from Oxys lol. Think I might start a poll to see what oxy users have had for sides.


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## Rav212 (May 18, 2011)

But if uve already got the test250 just jab it m8, I bet u will end up doing it the next cycle anyway, also u Might aswell make the most of ure virgin receptors as the first cycle will be one of ure most effective!


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## bossdog (Aug 25, 2011)

know what you saying m8 but think this is the best way for me to start my roid journey


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Zangief said:


> I was reading a Layne Nortan article about having 75% of your carbs pre - during & post wo seems to make sense to me, this something you've tried/do?


i've done something similar- TKD which is a keto diet but with carbs for training.

The idea is pick ONE diet approach, and stick to it. Nearly all the diets that people use/talk about will work- if you follow them EXACTLY.. its when you start mixing elements of diets that they tend not to work (of course "cheating" on any diet is a fail too..).

Find one that makes sense to you, and that you like the food choice on (I got SICK of keto, it works, just over the food choice), but found high protein low carb was easier for me.. long term.



bossdog said:


> read all 8 pages and more confused than the start :confused1: i got myself some test250 but bottleing it on the jabs so gonna run orals as a first cycle and go from there, was thinking dbol but read a few threads that said tbol better as dont aromotise? now this seems to say oxys are the way to go, is there a right answer or is it personal choice,i want first cycle to give me the least possible sides has anyone got that answewr lol:thumbup1:


1. ALL AAS will work.

2. Injectables have the LEAST impact on your liver- infact hardly measurable... but they can still change your blood lipid profile (all temporary of course).

3. ALL ORALS are 17-alpha alkylated, and thats what makes them harder on the liver than injectables.

3a. There is a myth that oxys are harsher on the liver than others- they ARE NOT as i've posted numerous studies on (some in this thread).

3b. Oyxs, Anavar, and winstrol DO NOT AROMATISE

3c. Dbol DOES aromatise.

3d. Oxys give the most LBM gains of ANY steroid (oral or injectable) mg for mg..

3e. Anavar and winstrol give VERY LITTLE water retention... but also the least results..

My point is if you where to run 50mg a day of any of the c-17 orals, you would need nolvadex or an AI with Dbol.. not the others.

If you run oxys, you will put more LBM on than the others, BUT you need to watch your diet (VERY clean, low sodium, low GI carbs- and low to medium carb macros component of your diet) and you will not bloat up much; you will hardly bloat at all on Anavar and winny, but results are FAR behind oxys..

Anavar and winny are GREAT for increased strength; its why they are used in athletics, particularly winny (think ben johnson) where you don't want to much muscle mass- you want power/weight to be optimal...

its choose your tool for your goal... my point was most on here what LBM gains from a cycle.. and a good diet with oxys yields amazing results.

If you already have test.. you need an AI or nolva to stop the gyno...

If you already have d-bols, same as for test..

Both test and dbol work very weil for LBM, not far behind oxys at all.. anavar and winstrol (and tbol) are far behind...



Rav212 said:


> Ummmmm lol....
> 
> Wat I've learnt over the couple of pages is that Oxys are just as liver toxic as any other 17aa oral and they don't aromatise.
> 
> ...


most sides from oxys are related to bloat & related High BP... mostly because people equate them to BULKING, and wrongly think bulking means eat all you see....


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## Rick89 (Feb 27, 2009)

superb summary aus great stuff mate


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## bossdog (Aug 25, 2011)

thanks for takeing the time to post that info much appreciated :thumb:


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## SoulXedge (Mar 15, 2010)

Great quality reading aus!


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## jjcooper (Sep 1, 2010)

reps for aus


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## Djibril (Aug 14, 2009)

this Thread will make me order some Oxys Soon, i know.. are the Greens faked a lot or shall i try some in the future?

As for the Liver Toxicity and stuff, even though ive not Run any Oral yet , soon to pop some Dbol idk why every1 is so worried about it, im more worried about my Blood pressure then anything, the liver is a Beast of an Organ, dont drink and ull be fine.

Aus wouldnt a person have some kind of BP issues with 100-150 oxys + 100 Dbol? and if so would you recommend taking any medicine to combat it if it goes sky high or just lower the dose? which is something you dont like i assume


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

Aus bit off topic mate but what's your views on Winstrol being used to stop prog sides on 19-nor's ? reading something Ricky posted on TM about it blocking prog when binding to SHBG thinking might be good addition to next NPP blast


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

80-100mg ed of tbol for 1-10 with 150mg of drol for 1-6. support the liver, drink lots of water and eat like a monster


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## chilesy (Jul 25, 2009)

What would be a good length of cycle for the oxy, I have been told in the past to only run 50mg a day for a total of 30 days . I think this is due to people thinking its very toxic but after ready the info it seems safe to run for longer


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Stathis said:


> this Thread will make me order some Oxys Soon, i know.. are the Greens faked a lot or shall i try some in the future?
> 
> As for the Liver Toxicity and stuff, even though ive not Run any Oral yet , soon to pop some Dbol idk why every1 is so worried about it, im more worried about my Blood pressure then anything, the liver is a Beast of an Organ, dont drink and ull be fine.
> 
> Aus wouldnt a person have some kind of BP issues with 100-150 oxys + 100 Dbol? and if so would you recommend taking any medicine to combat it if it goes sky high or just lower the dose? which is something you dont like i assume


As long as you run 1mg ED of Arimidex or 25mg/day aromasin with the dbol, you're unlikely to get water retention, and hence I high BP. However, if you take before and during cycle measurements and your BP has risen, take an ACE inhibitor like Enalapril at 20mg/day, and you're sorted.



Zangief said:


> Aus bit off topic mate but what's your views on Winstrol being used to stop prog sides on 19-nor's ? reading something Ricky posted on TM about it blocking prog when binding to SHBG thinking might be good addition to next NPP blast


I do agree, stanozolol does have weak binding affinity for progesterone receptors, however keep in mind, this is WEAK affinity, whereas when it comes to SHBG, proviron has STRONG affinity..

but more to the point, there is no such thing as "progesterone" sides; ONLY oestrogen can cause gyno (growth of breast tissue). On deca alone, its IMPOSSIBLE to get gyno- the reason is, oestrogen upregulates the progesterone receptors, and only oestrogen causes breast tissue growth; check out what oestrogen does and what progesterone does:

Progesterone Effects:

Progesterone exerts its primary action through the intracellular progesterone receptor although a distinct, membrane bound progesterone receptor has also been postulated.[23][24] In addition, *progesterone is a highly potent antagonist of the mineralocorticoid receptor (MR, the receptor for aldosterone *and other mineralocorticosteroids). It prevents MR activation by binding to this receptor with an affinity exceeding even those of aldosterone and other corticosteroids such as cortisol and corticosterone.[25]

Progesterone has a number of physiological effects that are amplified in the presence of estrogen.* Estrogen through estrogen receptors upregulates the expression of progesterone receptors*.[26] Also, *elevated levels of progesterone potently reduce the sodium-retaining activity of aldosterone*, resulting in natriuresis and a reduction in extracellular fluid volume. Progesterone withdrawal, on the other hand, is associated with a temporary increase in sodium retention (reduced natriuresis, with an increase in extracellular fluid volume) due to the compensatory increase in aldosterone production, which combats the blockade of the mineralocorticoid receptor by the previously elevated level of progesterone."

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone

Why the bold bits above? well it clearly shows that you need high oestrogen for he effects of progesterone. ALso, you will see that progesterone REDUCES WATER RETENTIOn (via aldesterone).

But what about Breasts/Gyno?

look at the link here under "Reproductive System" you will see there is no mention of breast tissue- in fact its SPECIFICALLY STATES:

"...In addition *progesterone **inhibits** lactation* during pregnancy. The f*all in progesterone levels* following delivery is one of the triggers for milk production."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone

so you see raised progesterone levels STOP lactation as they LOWER prolactin levels.... (so much for the Bull$hit that deca/tren raise prolactin... its infact the OPPOSITE as they are progestens too!)

WHat else does it do? See below...

Other effects

It raises epidermal growth factor-1 levels, a factor often used to induce proliferation, and used to sustain cultures, of stem cells.

It increases core temperature (thermogenic function) during ovulation.[37]

It reduces spasm and relaxes smooth muscle. Bronchi are widened and mucus regulated. (Progesterone receptors are widely present in submucosal tissue.)

It acts as an antiinflammatory agent and regulates the immune response.

It reduces gall-bladder activity.[38]

It normalizes blood clotting and vascular tone, zinc and copper levels, cell oxygen levels, and use of fat stores for energy.

It may affect gum health, increasing risk of gingivitis (gum inflammation) and tooth decay.[citation needed]

It appears to prevent endometrial cancer (involving the uterine lining) by regulating the effects of estrogen.

Progesterone plays an important role in the signaling of insulin release and pancreatic function, and may affect the susceptibility to diabetes or gestational diabetes

SO WHAT CAUSES BREAST GROWTH/GYNO? Oestrogen! See:

While estrogens are present in both men and women, they are usually present at significantly higher levels in women of reproductive age. They promote the *development of female secondary sexual characteristics, such as breasts,* and are also involved in the thickening of the endometrium and other aspects of regulating the menstrual cycle. In males, estrogen regulates certain functions of the reproductive system important to the maturation of sperm[10][11][12] and may be necessary for a healthy libido.[13][14] Furthermore, there are several other structural changes induced by estrogen in addition to other functions:

Structural

*Promote formation of female secondary sex characteristics*

Accelerate metabolism

Increase fat stores

Stimulate endometrial growth

Increase uterine growth

Increase vaginal lubrication

Thicken the vaginal wall

Maintenance of vessel and skin

Reduce bone resorption, increase bone formation

Reduce muscle mass[citation needed]

Protein synthesis

Increase hepatic production of binding proteins

Coagulation

Increase circulating level of factors 2, 7, 9, 10, plasminogen

Decrease antithrombin III

Increase platelet adhesiveness

Lipid

Increase HDL, triglyceride

Decrease LDL, fat deposition

Fluid balance

Salt (sodium) and water retention

Increase cortisol, SHBG

Gastrointestinal tract

Reduce bowel motility

Increase cholesterol in bile

Melanin

Increase pheomelanin, reduce eumelanin

Cancer

Support hormone-sensitive breast cancers (see section below)

Lung function

Promotes lung function by supporting alveoli (in rodents but probably in humans).[15]

Uterus lining

Estrogen together with progesterone promotes and maintains the uterus lining in preparation for implantation of fertilized egg and maintenance of uterus function during gestation period.

Ovulation

Surge in estrogen level induces the release of luteinizing hormone, which then triggers ovulation by releasing the egg from the Graafian follicle in the ovary.

Sexual desire

Sex drive is dependent on androgen levels[19] only in the presence of estrogen, but without estrogen, free testosterone level actually decreases sexual desire (instead of increases sex drive), as demonstrated for those women who have hypoactive sexual desire disorder, and the sexual desire in these women can be restored by administration of estrogen (using oral contraceptive) [20]. In non-human mammals, mating desire is triggered by estrogen surge in estrus.

SO ONCE AGAIN, WHAT PROGESTERONE SIDES ARE WE TRYING TO PREVENT WITH WINNY???



theBEAST2002 said:


> 80-100mg ed of tbol for 1-10 with 150mg of drol for 1-6. support the liver, drink lots of water and eat like a monster


There is no evidence for any "liver support" working- if there was the NHS would prescribe it to alcoholics and those with Hepatitis and damaged livers.

Eating like a beast makes you fat, regardless of AAS.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

chilesy said:


> What would be a good length of cycle for the oxy, I have been told in the past to only run 50mg a day for a total of 30 days . I think this is due to people thinking its very toxic but after ready the info it seems safe to run for longer


well the medical reviews state that the dosage is 1-3mg/kg for adults, and 1-5mg/kg for children:

http://www.afboard.com/library/Review%20of%20Oxymetholone.pdf

see page 797-798 under Dosage. You will also note they state that 3-6months is needed to get the effects (page 798).

Even AIDS/HIV patients are prescribed 150mg/day, for THIRTY WEEKS, and found to have no significant health issues:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8785183

I would say 12 weeks is a minimum cycle if oral only, and 150mg/day the minimum dose; with a 8-9 hour half life, you would take 50mg 3x day.


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## chilesy (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks for the info , have 60 pro chem oxybol so can run a 8 week co**** and see how things go .


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## Mr Zed (Sep 9, 2011)

What a great read. So interesting to learn more about oxys. Because they don't aromatise are you saying they are incapable of causing gyno, also what about pct? May be a noob question I apologise in advance lol.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Mr Zed said:


> What a great read. So interesting to learn more about oxys. Because they don't aromatise are you saying they are incapable of causing gyno, also what about pct? May be a noob question I apologise in advance lol.


technically this is true. However, some still get gyno, and some American BB forums say that it has something to do with progesterone (rubbish, as only oestrogen causes gyno- IMPOSSIBLE with progesterone). The reality is actually shown my the HIV Dr's and researchers (since they use anabolics more than anyone else to combat HIV wasting syndrome). Have a look at this chart:

http://www.medibolics.com/chart.htm

you will notice for drugs like anavar and winstrol, they recommend taking testosterone with them for muscle growth (esp for men); however they say to take Oxys ALONE (without extra testosterone), as it would give to many androgenic sides. Eg Gyno- as the oxys CANNOT aromatise, the body can sense the ANDROGEN level is higher than normal, and to balance this, it will AROMATISE MORE OF YOUR OWN TEST.

Becuase of this, its still a good idea to take 1mg of Arimidex EOD when taking oxys.


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## chilesy (Jul 25, 2009)

As for pct I take it the normal nolva/clomid would be best


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

chilesy said:


> As for pct I take it the normal nolva/clomid would be best


thats not the best. Its a bit old school.

Use arimi

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

also Nolvadex DECREASES IGF-1:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809

whereas Arimidex SIGNFICANTLY increases IGF-1:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488

if you're trying to retain (or build muscle) you want high IGF-1, not low..

week 1-2: 1mg arimidex ED+ 100mg clomid ED

Week3: 1mg arimidex ED + 50mg clomid ED

Week 4: 1mg armidex EOD + 50mg clomid EOD.

Week 5: 20mg nolva ED just to prevent rebound gyno form rising oestrogen.


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## chilesy (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks again for the advice  will get this sorted


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> thats not the best. Its a bit old school.
> 
> Use arimi
> 
> ...


aus how long have you been on test for, continuously? (not including cycles) and what dose? if you could go back and do it all again would you taper up the dose over the years (knowing what you know now) or would you have stuck to high dose?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

cas said:


> aus how long have you been on test for, continuously? (not including cycles) and what dose? if you could go back and do it all again would you taper up the dose over the years (knowing what you know now) or would you have stuck to high dose?


i've been on my current cycle 12months now. For the first 10months it was 2g of test, and 1.6g of other injectables; now its 3.6g of test, and will be around this for next 12months, except for sept when i do my next bulk, it will be 1g/day test and 200mg winny and 300mg oxys/day (basically paul borresson cycle) then back down to the base level of test.

i wouldn't and (havent) jumped straight into my current level. Its more the fact if you do some cycles at 1g say, you need to roughly double the dose- basically what dose got you to where you are, wont get you to the next point....


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> i've been on my current cycle 12months now. For the first 10months it was 2g of test, and 1.6g of other injectables; now its 3.6g of test, and will be around this for next 12months, except for sept when i do my next bulk, it will be 1g/day test and 200mg winny and 300mg oxys/day (basically paul borresson cycle) then back down to the base level of test.
> 
> i wouldn't and (havent) jumped straight into my current level. Its more the fact if you do some cycles at 1g say, you need to roughly double the dose- basically what dose got you to where you are, wont get you to the next point....


aus, serious question. have you had an ecg/echo to see if you have any lvh and also renal function test?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

m118 said:


> aus, serious question. have you had an ecg/echo to see if you have any lvh and also renal function test?


i dont have elavated urea etc; I've had ecg regularly (aviation licence). I also generally have blood tests every 3months, as i see an anti-aging dr in europe who prescribes GH as part of his therapy (my parents go too).

I think you'll find for the most part, AAS at doses that make people pass out are nowhere near as bad as is made out... that being said, there are people who suffer liver failure from the recommended dose of paracetamol....


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> i dont have elavated urea etc; I've had ecg regularly (aviation licence). I also generally have blood tests every 3months, as i see an anti-aging dr in europe who prescribes GH as part of his therapy (my parents go too).
> 
> I think you'll find for the most part, AAS at doses that make people pass out are nowhere near as bad as is made out... that being said, there are people who suffer liver failure from the recommended dose of paracetamol....


good to hear you geta full MOT so regularly.

Liver... not that concerned about at all, more so gfr and whether any cardiac hypertrophy had occured over the years


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> i've been on my current cycle 12months now. For the first 10months it was 2g of test, and 1.6g of other injectables; now its 3.6g of test, and will be around this for next 12months, except for sept when i do my next bulk, it will be 1g/day test and 200mg winny and 300mg oxys/day (basically paul borresson cycle) then back down to the base level of test.
> 
> i wouldn't and (havent) jumped straight into my current level. Its more the fact if you do some cycles at 1g say, you need to roughly double the dose- basically what dose got you to where you are, wont get you to the next point....


right, safe thinking aside for one moment...lets say someone like myself wants to stay on for a while how high would you recommend i go...

im not going to be on this planet for long man, i just as well live it as i want to 

how long do you cycle your orals for?

should have probably PM'd you this rather than have everyone look down their noses at me, never mind....


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

uh oh i killed the thread


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