# Can you get this figure by not taking any steroids etc??



## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

Well, as the title says really.

Thank you


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2012)

Is it possible, yes.

Could I do it without... Hell no.


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

I was speaking to a customer of mine today and it turns out that he knows these two people in the photos. He said that they are completely clean of everything,but wasnt entirely sure how true that is from looking at these photos as I dont know much about bodybuilding.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

That level of BF without drugs..............must have good genes


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Depending on genetics, definitely, he's not huge.


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## Redbeard85 (Mar 26, 2011)

I would very much guess that yes it is possible...although you would really have to sleep, eat, breath and live inside your training to do so...complete dedication with no life I would imagine


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Conscript said:


> That level of BF without drugs..............must have good genes





Dezw said:


> Depending on genetics, definitely, he's not huge.


Its nothing to do with genetics

Hard work and determination are what got them in that shape

So many people that lack the above come out with " He must have good genetics "

This line is a cop out for not having the dedication


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2012)

Couple of guys from gym I go to are totally natural and pull of the same sort of figure. If you put Kerry Napier or David Kaye into Youtube you will find vids of them (cant post links thru this damn phone)


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## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The second one is Andrew Merrifield a lifetime natural .

In his first show he already had massive legs and obviously genetics help .

However his condition at shows was out of this world and thats just down to hard graft pure and simple


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

Gym-pig said:


> The second one is Andrew Merrifield a lifetime natural .
> 
> In his first show he already had massive legs and obviously genetics help .
> 
> However his condition at shows was out of this world and thats just down to hard graft pure and simple


yeah thats him,fair enough to him. The first guy is called Gus Fisher.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Big Kris said:


> Its nothing to do with genetics
> 
> Hard work and determination are what got them in that shape
> 
> ...


"Its nothing to do with genetics." -Perhaps the most inaccurate statment ever posted on this board.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Are natty feds lie detector tested for drugs or do they just take it on face value?


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

Conscript said:


> Are natty feds lie detector tested for drugs or do they just take it on face value?


Thats exactly what my customer said to me that happens, they have to take lie detectors.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Sc4mp0 said:


> Thats exactly what my customer said to me that happens, they have to take lie detectors.


Can one use a sedative and with enough coaching, and detector practice, fool the test?


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

depends on ur genetics. some people like to forget we arent all born equal


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## Sc4mp0 (Jun 17, 2012)

Conscript said:


> Can one use a sedative and with enough coaching, and detector practice, fool the test?


Well as far as I know Lie Detectors arent 100% accurate and a small percentage of people can deceive it. Thats also why they dont stand in a court room.


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

essexboy said:


> "Its nothing to do with genetics." -Perhaps the most inaccurate statment ever posted on this board.


Give me a break.....! When i was a little pencil neck years ago i was adamant i was a "hard gainer " " didn't have the right genetics "

After doing research, training hard and eating well ive got into a shape i never thought was possible...

So tell me this 4 years of not training properly and then 8 months of training how i do now and diet spot on how genetics played a part in getting in the shape im in in my avi


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Conscript said:


> Can one use a sedative and with enough coaching, and detector practice, fool the test?


Sure Dutch-Scott posted yesterday he's helped people beat lie detectors


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Breda said:


> Sure Dutch-Scott posted yesterday he's helped NATTY'S beat lie detectors


Fixed


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Big Kris said:


> Give me a break.....! When i was a little pencil neck years ago i was adamant i was a "hard gainer " " didn't have the right genetics "
> 
> After doing research, training hard and eating well ive got into a shape i never thought was possible...
> 
> So tell me this 4 years of not training properly and then 8 months of training how i do now and diet spot on how genetics played a part in getting in the shape im in in my avi


A big part.

For the last 8 months you've given them a chance by working hard and having your diet nailed


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Conscript said:


> Fixed


Yes... Nattys :rolleye:


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Big Kris said:


> Give me a break.....! When i was a little pencil neck years ago i was adamant i was a "hard gainer " " didn't have the right genetics "
> 
> After doing research, training hard and eating well ive got into a shape i never thought was possible...
> 
> So tell me this 4 years of not training properly and then 8 months of training how i do now and diet spot on how genetics played a part in getting in the shape im in in my avi


The reason you look the way you do,is due to your bodys response to lifting weights.You have favourable genes, its evident from looking at you.However, the results that are gleaned is limited by genes.This isnt soley limited to bodybuilding but any human endeavour.

One individuals results, are in no way a measure of the effacasy of any regime, whether it be bodybuilding or playing the violin.


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Breda said:


> A big part.
> 
> For the last 8 months you've given them a chance by working hard and having your diet nailed


Any one can get in shape if they try, genetics cant play that much of a part


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Your genetics play a massive part in all aspects of your biological makeup, from physiological to psychological.


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

anyone can get in tip top shape but not everyone looks the fcuking same. thats why people win and lose comps


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## ampre (Aug 5, 2012)

Sc4mp0 said:


> View attachment 91742
> 
> 
> View attachment 91743
> ...


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Big Kris said:


> Any one can get in shape if they try, genetics cant play that much of a part


That is the typical response from someone who has genetic advantages.They assume that what they are doing must be right, and effective for everyone, simply because it works for them.When in fact, if you have an abundance of genetic advantages, ANYTHING will work.Its no different from me telling you to buy a Strat, and to learn to play like SRV,and then calling you lazy because you cant.


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## fozyspilgrims (Oct 22, 2007)

Big Kris said:


> Its nothing to do with genetics
> 
> Hard work and determination are what got them in that shape
> 
> ...


Big Kris, I know this is off topic and with the risk of making you big headed, your Avi picture is my goal! What are your stats and lifts. I've been back in training now for about 10 months and I want to set a realistic goal for 1st Aug 2013.

Thanks


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

Big Kris said:


> Give me a break.....! When i was a little pencil neck years ago i was adamant i was a "hard gainer " " didn't have the right genetics "
> 
> After doing research, training hard and eating well ive got into a shape i never thought was possible...
> 
> So tell me this 4 years of not training properly and then 8 months of training how i do now and diet spot on how genetics played a part in getting in the shape im in in my avi


Are you natty or assisted?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

fozyspilgrims said:


> Big Kris, I know this is off topic and with the risk of making you big headed, your Avi picture is my goal! What are your stats and lifts. I've been back in training now for about 10 months and I want to set a realistic goal for 1st Aug 2013.
> 
> Thanks


case and point


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

When it comes to winning shows, or running fast, or jumping long distances, genetics are top of the pile, everything else hard work, the best nutrition, dedication with your training comes second, i also think the two guys in the pics, have taken some kind of drugs, that's just my opinion


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

Big Kris said:


> Give me a break.....! When i was a little pencil neck years ago i was adamant i was a "hard gainer " " didn't have the right genetics "
> 
> After doing research, training hard and eating well ive got into a shape i never thought was possible...
> 
> So tell me this 4 years of not training properly and then 8 months of training how i do now and diet spot on how genetics played a part in getting in the shape im in in my avi


You forgot to mention the steroids as well mate.....................


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## fozyspilgrims (Oct 22, 2007)

Breda said:


> case and point


Sorry don't understand.


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## MrBen (Nov 22, 2011)

Imo genetics must play a part. With hard work anyone can make dramatic improvements to any aspect of themselves but the starting point and the ultimate level attainable are governed by genetic predisposition and uncontrollable environmental factors. The degree by which an individual improves may well be proportional to the amount of effort they apply but the range in which they move is largely fixed.

This is why horses, livestock, crops and even garden plants have been subject to selective breeding since the stone age.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

fozyspilgrims said:


> Sorry don't understand.


Just pointin out the difference in genetics mate


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## MrBen (Nov 22, 2011)

essexboy said:


> That is the typical response from someone who has genetic advantages.They assume that what they are doing must be right, and effective for everyone, simply because it works for them.When in fact, if you have an abundance of genetic advantages, ANYTHING will work.Its no different from me telling you to buy a Strat, and to learn to play like SRV,and then calling you lazy because you cant.


Exactly.

Give a child with Downs a private tutor or a teenager with Cystic Fibrosis a PT and see how well they perform to a healthy equivalent....


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## ClareAnne (Aug 6, 2012)

Big Kris said:


> Any one can get in shape if they try, genetics cant play that much of a part


I appreciate what you mean but I would have to strongly disagree. I actually have a genetical condition where I am hyper-mobile and my skin is hyper-elastic; I have an abnormality in my collagen.

I train and I train hard but I will NEVER look the same as a person without this condition. I have spoken to my rheumatologist and she even said to me that it may be almost impossible for me to obtain the body I want, no matter what I do. This is clearly frustrating, but not a lot can be done, doesn't mean I will give up trying!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

ClareAnne said:


> I appreciate what you mean but I would have to strongly disagree. I actually have a genetical condition where I am hyper-mobile and my skin is hyper-elastic; I have an abnormality in my collagen.
> 
> I train and I train hard but I will NEVER look the same as a person without this condition. I have spoken to my rheumatologist and she even said to me that it may be almost impossible for me to obtain the body I want, no matter what I do. This is clearly frustrating, but not a lot can be done, doesn't mean I will give up trying!


hyper mobile i know someone with it she popped 4 ribs out and her shoulder a few weeks back said it doesnt hurt but i reckon its a weird sensation .

i guessing hyper elastic is really stretchy skin ?

providing your very strict in form lifting in certain exercises will be fine .


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

It's possible, but to get that big and LEAN at the same time would take years and years.

The chances of you doing it yourself, are slim mate, even with gear lol


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## ClareAnne (Aug 6, 2012)

ewen said:


> hyper mobile i know someone with it she popped 4 ribs out and her shoulder a few weeks back said it doesnt hurt but i reckon its a weird sensation .
> 
> i guessing hyper elastic is really stretchy skin ?
> 
> providing your very strict in form lifting in certain exercises will be fine .


Yeah basically I am double jointed in many of my joints, so for example I have to be careful on chin ups as my shoulder blades can hyper extend or pop out. It doesn't hurt it just is uncomfortable. I have a couple of joints that limit what I do like squats, my knees aren't fantastic at times as joint pain comes the heavier I lift. Lifting and creating muscles is good for me and holds my joints in place, though I have had people saying I shouldn't do it, in the end of the day I do what I feel I can, some days are crap but most are good. When a joint hurts I stop, simple! ^^

And yeah hyper-elastic skin is basically stretchy skin. This effects me really with my shape, my skin was stretched when I was fat and now its impossible really to get it tight again, so unfortunately not matter what I do I won't be able to have a nice tight stomach... : (

But moaning about it doesn't get me anywhere, just gotta do the best I can and I won't be stopping lifting heavy anytime soon as I love it!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

ClareAnne said:


> Yeah basically I am double jointed in many of my joints, so for example I have to be careful on chin ups as my shoulder blades can hyper extend or pop out. It doesn't hurt it just is uncomfortable. I have a couple of joints that limit what I do like squats, my knees aren't fantastic at times as joint pain comes the heavier I lift. Lifting and creating muscles is good for me and holds my joints in place, though I have had people saying I shouldn't do it, in the end of the day I do what I feel I can, some days are crap but most are good. When a joint hurts I stop, simple! ^^
> 
> And yeah hyper-elastic skin is basically stretchy skin. This effects me really with my shape, my skin was stretched when I was fat and now its impossible really to get it tight again, so unfortunately not matter what I do I won't be able to have a nice tight stomach... : (
> 
> But moaning about it doesn't get me anywhere, just gotta do the best I can and I won't be stopping lifting heavy anytime soon as I love it!


great attitude to have , i know it will be impossible on a fair few joints but some you can heavily strap up for .


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

ClareAnne said:


> Yeah basically I am double jointed in many of my joints, so for example I have to be careful on chin ups as my shoulder blades can hyper extend or pop out. It doesn't hurt it just is uncomfortable. I have a couple of joints that limit what I do like squats, my knees aren't fantastic at times as joint pain comes the heavier I lift. Lifting and creating muscles is good for me and holds my joints in place, though I have had people saying I shouldn't do it, in the end of the day I do what I feel I can, some days are crap but most are good. When a joint hurts I stop, simple! ^^
> 
> And yeah hyper-elastic skin is basically stretchy skin. This effects me really with my shape, my skin was stretched when I was fat and now its impossible really to get it tight again, so unfortunately not matter what I do I won't be able to have a nice tight stomach... : (
> 
> But moaning about it doesn't get me anywhere, just gotta do the best I can and I won't be stopping lifting heavy anytime soon as I love it!


Im like that, I can stick my shoulder blades out a mile and I can pop them in and out of the joints, more on my left than my right. And sometimes when walking I can feel my knees falling out of the joint..my arms don't fall out by themselves anymore though, just my knees


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## Geonix (Apr 4, 2011)

Steroids or not, I seen someone at a nottingham gym once, maybe 9-10 stone, just went up to 245kg, deadlifted it up. My eyebrows didn't come back down for a few seconds D.

If you think steroids can you into shape like that without dedication, then your on donkey land. Dedication = key natty or not.


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

Genetics play a huge role in muscle growth imo. Some people are gifted with great bi's and tri with little training and others can really struggle to gain decent size/shape ect, this is down to genetics.


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Figure? Figure?!


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## s3_abv (Feb 10, 2010)

NickDuffy said:


> Steroids or not, I seen someone at a nottingham gym once, maybe 9-10 stone, just went up to 245kg, deadlifted it up. My eyebrows didn't come back down for a few seconds D.
> 
> If you think steroids can you into shape like that without dedication, then your on donkey land. Dedication = key natty or not.


I could deadlift 230kg at 11.8st, am 12.8st now but can't haven't tried a rep max, although i don't think it will be much more tbh. weight means nothing in my eyes, power to weight ftw lol!


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

essexboy said:


> That is the typical response from someone who has genetic advantages.They assume that what they are doing must be right, and effective for everyone, simply because it works for them.When in fact, if you have an abundance of genetic advantages, ANYTHING will work.Its no different from me telling you to buy a Strat, and to learn to play like SRV,and then calling you lazy because you cant.





NoGutsNoGlory said:


> Are you natty or assisted?





NoGutsNoGlory said:


> You forgot to mention the steroids as well mate.....................


Having good genetics means nothing if you dont put effort and dedication in to your training, you could say they work hand in hand.

I have took gear on and off for about 4 years now, in this time i have eaten what i wanted, then tried a diet that i thought was good, got big but full of water and then when i come off the course go back to almost how i started with not much muscle gain

Have been doing that up until i went back packing in 2010, got back from backpacking last year and decided to pull my finger out and get my diet, training and cycle all planned. Hey presto i get the results ive been trying to attain for the previous 3 - 5 years

As you can see this is why my argument that genetics dont play a massive part came from

If you dont eat properly with gear or not you wont grow :- FACT

If you dont train hard enough with or without gear you wont grow :- FACT

Genetics dont play this massive part that all of you are bangin on about, you tell me hand on heart you train as hard as i do and i will believe that the reason your not in shape is because of bad genetics

Im up at 6am every morning for a 2 - 3 mile run, then at night i train 5 days a week and when ive done all this i have to prep all my food for the next day...... to top my day off i sleep..... what part of genetics play a role in the above that i do every day? ....


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

Big Kris said:


> Having good genetics means nothing if you dont put effort and dedication in to your training, you could say they work hand in hand.
> 
> I have took gear on and off for about 4 years now, in this time i have eaten what i wanted, then tried a diet that i thought was good, got big but full of water and then when i come off the course go back to almost how i started with not much muscle gain
> 
> ...


Genetics don't play a role in what you do, but they play a huge role in how your body responds to it.

No-one is saying that diet, training intensity and dedication don't come into it, just that genetics will govern the bodys response to the stimulus you provide.


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

squatthis said:


> Genetics don't play a role in what you do, but they play a huge role in how your body responds to it.
> 
> No-one is saying that diet, training intensity and dedication don't come into it, just that genetics will govern the bodys response to the stimulus you provide.


Yes they do but the comment people throw in the mix that rubbed me the wrong way were that its just genetics that sort the men from the boys


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## squatthis (May 3, 2010)

If all the variables were the same, hypothetically, then yes they do.


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## ftz (Feb 29, 2012)

Big Kris said:


> Having good genetics means nothing if you dont put effort and dedication in to your training, you could say they work hand in hand.
> 
> I have took gear on and off for about 4 years now, in this time i have eaten what i wanted, then tried a diet that i thought was good, got big but full of water and then when i come off the course go back to almost how i started with not much muscle gain
> 
> ...


would love a look at your current diet and training routine mate. just to compare it to my own.


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## powerhousepeter (Dec 4, 2010)

yes.......you need to take norateen


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## goonerton (Sep 7, 2009)

genetics is everything IMO, but people tend to forget that genetics also include how you respond to PEDs, which IMO is probably one of if not the most important genetic factors.


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## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

Genetics are key imo.

Look at people with more fast twitch than slow twitch fibres, where fat is put on first, the shape of muscles, size, stubborn muscle groups, the way the body uses calories, natural test levels, test production age etc etc.

Diet, rest, and routine all play a key, however genetics are evident when younger at how key they are. For example in school...realistically kids diets are the same, sporting activities similar, I had mates that I spent 85% of my time with, only difference would be meal times with family and even then mine wasn't that bad. Some of my friends were lumps, others were quite big, others were ripped. This imo, was mostly due to genetics, and the same is the case as you get older.

Not to say no one will ever get that figure natural, but realistically I would say 5+ years with diet nailed throughout and living the BB life and being a naturally big lad to start. Far easier to diet down to that, than it would be building up from tiny (imo).


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## Daggaz (Apr 28, 2012)

av got terrible genes or maybe its just my bodies primed to gain fat after food as its been abused for 20+ years !!! lol

but my ecto mate who is 14st now after a year of solid natty training can DL 280 1rm hes always been sports mad like and eats like 5 sunday dinners a day lol


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## LIL-SCOOB-23 (Jun 16, 2012)

if it is naturally then fair play on them but i think they have juiced to get to that level


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

I know this thread is getting a little old now but, genetics DO play a part in it...of course they do.

I see it every day.

I have two sons, one is 9 year old and the other is 7. They are both given the same diet...they both eat the same amount of food, both go to the same school with the same friends...do the same activities. Both go to bed at the same time etc

Yet the 9 year old has a lanky, skinny frame with a layer of fat, and the 7 year old has a short thick set frame and has a six pack. Now considering their lives are nearly exactly the same in every way the only reason why the 7 year old is like he is must be because of his genetics. The body composition of the two are totally different


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## nzgs (Nov 18, 2012)

Had to register just to chuckle at the people saying genetics 

This guy is using more than usual gym rat doses, not even close to being natural. A lot of diuretics also. On the contrary to opinions here, he has pretty bad genetics which is why he claims natural. His upper body doesn't respond anywhere near as well as lower body (except traps as you would expect) and his structure is rather unaesthetic. Very narrow shoulders.


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