# Team Drago - BJ Diet



## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

7am 200ml liquid egg whites, pro6, water + 75g oats + 25g activated barley + cinnamon + pumpkin seeds + 5ml measure flaxseed powder + green tea + half a grapefruit

9am 150g chicken/Turkey, broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root + pine nuts/almonds/brazils

12pm 150g Extra lean steak/Chicken/Turkey broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root/ + fibre supplement + EVOO

3pm 150g chicken/Turkey/Salmon/Mackeral, broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root + fibre supplement + flax (if not fatty fish option)

6pm 150g chicken/Turkey + cous cous/sweet potato + red pepper/green beans/garlic cloves

Extreme Liquid Fury

7pm hour weight training, 30 mins HIIT (which I'll design and come and do with you at some point)

Extreme pro-6 + 75g activated barley + 20g leucine

9.30pm calcium caseinate + cottage cheese + 2x 5ml measure of flax seed + almonds

I haven't yet put the exact kcals in - need to assess weight and bf properly. Your current diet is 2800kcal - how stable is your bodyweight at that level?

--- Just so you can make a start on the food runs


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

The point here is very high fibre (hence the carb choices being all fibrous veg, supping with fibre, + oats, barley as the vast majority of carbs)

Very high Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio (hence all the flax and EVOO)

I want to massively control your insulin responses and regulate your blood glucose levels to make it exceptionally stable (hence the request to buy a monitor). The reason is that you carry very site specific fat (supra iliac skin fold) and I believe this to be hormonal. This is my attempt to fix that 

This is called a Timed Ketogenic Diet (erroneously to be honest). The principle is to only intake carbohydrates as your energy source at 3 very specific times. To fuel effective training, on waking and post workout. I'm not a believer in high GI even post workout for insulin spiking - you can read why in my journal if you like.

We'll review after 8 weeks 1/3 of the way through the comp.


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

That's some mad breakfast lol


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Would now be a good time to tell you I hate grapefruit and green tea?


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

7am 200ml liquid egg whites, pro6, water + 75g oats + 25g activated barley + cinnamon + pumpkin seeds + 5ml measure flaxseed powder + green tea + half a grapefruit Can I lose the grapefruit / green tea?? (fruits i like are pineapple, orange, apple, grapes)

9am 150g chicken/Turkey, broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root + pine nuts/almonds/brazils Can I use turkey mince and mix with some tinned toms to make it less dry?

12pm 150g Extra lean steak/Chicken/Turkey broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root/ + fibre supplement + EVOO As above

3pm 150g chicken/Turkey/Salmon/Mackeral, broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root + fibre supplement + flax (if not fatty fish option) As above

6pm 150g chicken/Turkey + cous cous/sweet potato + red pepper/green beans/garlic cloves

Extreme Liquid Fury

7pm hour weight training, 30 mins HIIT (which I'll design and come and do with you at some point)

Extreme pro-6 + 75g activated barley + 20g leucine Is this my post workout shake?

9.30pm calcium caseinate + cottage cheese + 2x 5ml measure of flax seed + almonds

I haven't yet put the exact kcals in - need to assess weight and bf properly. Your current diet is 2800kcal - how stable is your bodyweight at that level? This seems to be my BMR although I do have a few cheat meals and too many pints on the weekend so maybe higher?


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Sorry to be a pain, just want something I sort of enjoy or I will struggle to stick to it


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Ah the first signs of mutiny.

Man up, this ain't wine tasting. The Green tea barely tastes - I'm from the generation that drank non capped CEE (ergo battery acid).

I'll explain in more detail tomorrow as this is going to be a very long day at the office.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Haha, I will try my best but grapefruit is horrible. I wouldnt even be able to force it down


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I'd like to see how that diet works out to a quid a meal? Turkey breast and chicken breast ain't cheap


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

133g turkey mince is 66p...


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Have I said this would be £1 a meal?

It won't. Turkey mince is out I'm afraid, incredibly low quality, high fat. Get down to your local butchers and they'll usually do you a great deal.

I can amend to budgetary requirements as best as possible. We'll have a chat offline about that though. I was a student bodybuilder a while ago and I funded myself through uni, so I understand.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

To be explicit these have to be lean cuts.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Young Gun said:


> Have I said this would be £1 a meal?
> 
> It won't. Turkey mince is out I'm afraid, incredibly low quality, high fat. Get down to your local butchers and they'll usually do you a great deal.
> 
> I can amend to budgetary requirements as best as possible. We'll have a chat offline about that though. I was a student bodybuilder a while ago and I funded myself through uni, so I understand.


I've worked out I spend about £200 every six weeks. This is replacing 3 meals a day (breakfast, PWO, pre fast). That's 45 days so 135 meals. That's less than £1.50 per meal. This is an unfair calculation given ancillary supps (creatine, extra aminos, stims). In reality its likely closer to a £1. There is no way you can eat more cheaply than that.

Ye you have


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

No mate - that was on supplements - not food


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

I spend about £100 - £125 a week personally on food


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

I you read it I was actually saying the total opposite. That replacing meals with supps costs £1.50 and that there is 'no way' you can eat more cheaply than that.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I'm not arguing im just saying that's how I read it and still do


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I could manage the food bill, but I put the items you said into myprotein and that was coming out to about £80 + £40 of pro6 a month as well... Might struggle with that if im honest, 2 children to feed and a wedding thats costing me a fortune 

Will try my best though!


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

BJ1938 said:


> Would now be a good time to tell you I hate grapefruit and green tea?


time to mann up lol


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

Can't wait to see mine lol...


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

X3_1986 said:


> Can't wait to see mine lol...


Well me to this will be fun I am really looking forward to it And good luck BJ


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

Totally agree meeky n that's what it's supposed to be... FUN.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I think im gonna need it if im honest...

Oh well, test of will power... are we allowed to cheat at weekends?


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Jordan - I say 'replacing meals' - ie supplements which replace meals morning, pwo and pre fast - these are the times I make explicit reference re 'replacing' meals - and the three times of the day I always recommend supp based nutrient intake to people. This is why I multiply by three (the three sup based meals of the day) over the 6 week period. Otherwise do you think I'm suggesting a 3 meal a day diet? It just doesn't read that I'm suggesting food at that price - read the thread - its talking about supps my supplement budget. Anyway you're right this is trivial.

Good to see the enthusiasm guys - XJ is next. Budget wise you can get the Extreme Liquid Fury free with a pro-6 at the minute. Give that a shot.

Will email each in more detail later.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ1938 said:


> I think im gonna need it if im honest...
> 
> Oh well, test of will power... are we allowed to cheat at weekends?


And you of course know the answer. You've got a 1 hour window every 2 weeks where you can eat what the **** you want. It has to be all consumed in 1 hour and you have to gorge in that hour. Outside the time window no. But you can obviously do what you want - you'll see a results to dedication curve on both teams


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

Already got a bottle of liquid fury, I had 3 at one point lol.

Bring it on YG!


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## jose1466868031 (Jun 30, 2012)

Wow thats some diet . Some planning and organisation needed each evening . Looks good though .

Good luck BJ


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## LaMbErT* (Sep 2, 2011)

I love the way you think when it comes to nutrition YG so thought provoking for myself. Good luck with the diet BJ!


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Just put this into myfitnesspal (with chicken and broccoli) for meals 2,3,4 and it comes out at...

3525 cals, 122 fat, 230 carbs, 373 protein.

This sound right YG? way above my usual intake


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Young Gun said:


> Jordan - I say 'replacing meals' - ie supplements which replace meals morning, pwo and pre fast - these are the times I make explicit reference re 'replacing' meals - and the three times of the day I always recommend supp based nutrient intake to people. This is why I multiply by three (the three sup based meals of the day) over the 6 week period. Otherwise do you think I'm suggesting a 3 meal a day diet? It just doesn't read that I'm suggesting food at that price - read the thread - its talking about supps my supplement budget. Anyway you're right this is trivial.
> 
> Good to see the enthusiasm guys - XJ is next. Budget wise you can get the Extreme Liquid Fury free with a pro-6 at the minute. Give that a shot.
> 
> Will email each in more detail later.


I see it now mate I was in a bad mood that day lol


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ1938 said:


> 7am 200ml liquid egg whites, pro6, water + 75g oats + 25g activated barley + cinnamon + pumpkin seeds + 5ml measure flaxseed powder + green tea + half a grapefruit Can I lose the grapefruit / green tea?? (fruits i like are pineapple, orange, apple, grapes) ---- The others aren't really substitutes for grapefruit. Grapefruit aid uptake of your other supps - its why its there. On Green Tea just man up
> 
> 9am 150g chicken/Turkey, broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root + pine nuts/almonds/brazils Can I use turkey mince and mix with some tinned toms to make it less dry? ------- I'd really rather you didn't This completely changes the EFA profile and GL+sugar content
> 
> ...


 ---- Are you going to utilise a cheat hour?

The EVOO should also prevent any dryness


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Half a grapefruit is just alot for me to stomach, I'll try!

Turkey mince is out, I've found a place for cheap chicken breast.

Definitely will be utilising cheat hour, what's the science behind it again? My mrs will be intrigued


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Its pretty simple really. Your body cannot possibly absorb all the nutrients, use all the kcal etc... ingested in that short time period. Its an idea I'm plagiarising from how Doug has prepped some athletes. The quickest I've seen even Whey protein (in the Boirie study in 97 - which is a famous one) enter the bloodstream is one hour and that was post fast with no other nutrients ingested.

The idea is you'll take on board a certain amount of high GI carbs and saturated/trans fat - but you'll excrete most of it and the ingestion will have a pronounced metabolic effect.

Its not something I use personally but it might keep you sane


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks for giving my sanity some thought after 13 days if chi ken and broccoli


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Parky said:


> Its pretty simple really. Your body cannot possibly absorb all the nutrients, use all the kcal etc... ingested in that short time period. Its an idea I'm plagiarising from how Doug has prepped some athletes. The quickest I've seen even Whey protein (in the Boirie study in 97 - which is a famous one) enter the bloodstream is one hour and that was post fast with no other nutrients ingested.
> 
> The idea is you'll take on board a certain amount of high GI carbs and saturated/trans fat - but you'll excrete most of it and the ingestion will have a pronounced metabolic effect.
> 
> *Its not something I use personally but it might keep you sane*


now youre getting what it takes to train people..


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Can't it be 1 hour every Saturday? Haha


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## Phenix (May 12, 2012)

TheCrazyCal said:


> now youre getting what it takes to train people..


You spying for tips old ya lol


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

BJ1938 said:


> Can't it be 1 hour every Saturday? Haha


I think that's pushing it lol... Parky will change it to once a month soon


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Well excited for Monday...... NOT!!!!


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

What's that next to the broccoli lol


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

450g of diced chicken


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Day 1...










Tried chicken and broccoli dry yesterday and can no way eat that 3 times a day for 12 weeks, so I added 1 tin of chopped tomatoes between my 6 portions!

Much better


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

It shouldn't be dry as a result of the evoo. Adding chopped tomatoes likely adds sugar (probably preserved in sugar water). The reason your bodyfat levels are low on your upper back, chest and arms but higher lower torso, might be free circulating insulin - so you should be avoiding cheap sugars at literally all costs.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Boooo, back to dry and bland as of tomorrow then... can I use a bit of fajita seasoning as well as the EVOO ?


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

My chopped tomatoes say they are on tomato juice ? No mention of sugar of any kind on the back

Lidls chopped toms


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Probably made of dextrose, but you can use any naturally occurring spice.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Also, on non training days obviously I dont have the the post workout shake, but what meal do i have? Same as 2,3,4 ?


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Bump for parky...


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ said:


> Also, on non training days obviously I dont have the the post workout shake, but what meal do i have? Same as 2,3,4 ?


Yup you got it.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

9am, 12pm and 3pm prepped for work tomorrow!

450g chicken, 300g broccoli, 1 garlic clove, 1 large chilli pepper and 3 tea spoons of EVOO split into 3!


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

The 12 week transformations are going to be amazing with this level of dedication lads. Awesome


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Loving the thread bj and pictures making me hungry


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Parky said:


> The 12 week transformations are going to be amazing with this level of dedication lads. Awesome


Phew didn't get told off for adding a chilli pepper!!

It's actually nicer without the sugary tinned tomatoes boss  garlic, evoo and a chilli makes it taste like a dish straight out of a Chinese restaurant!


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Looks sensational! Could get into that type of meal plus looks straightforward to cook!


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Takes 10mins phil and tastes amazing


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## Brockyboy (Oct 17, 2010)

This is my 10am/pm (depends on shift)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

now thats what im starting to dream of already mince and tatties


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## Brockyboy (Oct 17, 2010)

I make the best mince and tatties if I do say so myself!


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## jose1466868031 (Jun 30, 2012)

BJ Got to say you've actually made chicken and brocolli look really tasty


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Brocky you fecker! Stop posting pics of food i'm not allowed on my thread


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## Bacon3612 (May 8, 2012)

I Must be wierd because I would much rather eat the Chicken & Brocolli than the Mince and Potato's!! lol


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

The wife got annoyed with me cooking the same thing everyday so I do 2 at a time now haha!


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Looking good bud get the food sorted im finding its getting easier prep wise now and like you say make 2 days worth


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Just read some of jordans tweaks, wanted to see if my changes were ok... Literally couldn't afford or stomach hat you had so here's what I eat.

7pm - 200ml LEW, scoop pro6, 100g oats, tspn flax, tspn pumpkin seeds

9am - 150g chicken with fajita seasoning, 100g broccoli, 1 chilli, tspn EVOO

12pm - as above

3pm - as above

6pm - 150g chicken or 8oz steak, 65g couscous, 1 chilli, peppers

Post workout - scoop pro6, 20g leucine, 100g oats

10pm - scoop pro6, tspn flax


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Non workout day I swap the couscous for broccoli ad obviously no shake after!


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Two ways of looking at it. The first I'd say

Fajita seasoning is very high in sugar so you're spiking your insulin ineffectively all day. Absolutely no veg, not enough healthy fat exacerbates the situation to quite a degree.

Second though - you should treat dieting the same way you treat training. Go hard or go home. If this is the most you can tolerate, then its the most you can tolerate. And its an improvement of sorts if you drop the fajita seasoning. Just buy some herbs? Same price.

Still a good effort though mate. You'll adapt to the incremental changes


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

"Absolutely no veg, not enough healthy fat exacerbates the situation to quite a degree."

Can you rephrase, I don't get what you mean mate?

I can lose the fajita seasoning for some herbs easily, the grapefruit and green tea I struggle with, any replacements?

Other than that everything else look ok?

Oh and I want to go hard, not home


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

The healthy fat and fibrous veg (plus fibre) is all designed to try and regulate your blood glucose and improve your hdl/ldl. The reason for this is that you carry too much apidose tissue around your hips. I think (its a long shot) that massively stabilising blood glucose/circulating insulin would rectify that.

I didn't just pick a bunch of good foods I designed things specifically for certain people and did a general one for the newer guys.

Losing the high levels of n3 and fibre is kinda catastrophic to the point of this diet.

But alas, as I'm a nice guy you won't be going home yet.

I'm kidding matey with the tone - good effort and everything - but for this to work the n3 and fibre are key


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Actually in fairness the fats aren't too bad. But try '****load' of EVOO rather than 'tspn'


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I've read that 3 times and still don't have a clue what you are on about!

So, Ditch the fajita seasoning, add more evoo...

100g broccoli per meal is ok???


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ said:


> I've read that 3 times and still don't have a clue what you are on about!
> 
> So, Ditch the fajita seasoning, add more evoo...
> 
> 100g broccoli per meal is ok???


Yes in a nutshell.

1. replace the fajita crap with some herbs

2. 100g broccoli is perfect

3. Yup do you want a video of how much EVOO I use?


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

N3 and fibre being what? Broccoli?

Spell it out please, I'm no biochemist


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

Wow just realised the microscopic level ur coming from tom.. 

I'm gonna be as interested as anyone to see if it makes a worthwhile difference..

BTW I did understand that lol


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ said:


> N3 and fibre being what? Broccoli?
> 
> Spell it out please, I'm no biochemist


N3 is Omega 3. Fiber is a non starch polysaccaride (a long chain carb). Its in most brown things.


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

fish oil,olive oil, fatty fish salmon mackeral,no sweet seasoning and yes broccoli


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I forgot to say I have about 6 brazil nuts with meals 9,12,3!

Cal, don't lie...


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Loz said:


> fish oil,olive oil, fatty fish salmon mackeral,no sweet seasoning and yes broccoli


Is this going to be how this works. I type indecipherable crap and you translate into English. I rate this system, I think it has merit.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Had a terrible day but some of these threads really cheered me up


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

TheCrazyCal said:


> Wow just realised the microscopic level ur coming from tom..
> 
> I'm gonna be as interested as anyone to see if it makes a worthwhile difference..
> 
> BTW I did understand that lol


Yup - broccoli/spinach/fennel/celery root/ + fibre supplement + EVOO (yup there's a method - they all help with the goal of regulating blood glucose).

Me too mate to be honest. Nice to have people to trial stuff with. I haven't explained the rationale in full as I want to see what happens first and then explain. But this is BJ's


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm confuzzed... My cal's are up from about 2800 to 3500 and I've gone from 14'1 to 13'9...Huh??? Excess water from my cycle? The wife says I look slimmer and she is the most honest person I know. If I get a spot she thinks it's a tumour...

Parky, my Ratliff is in your hands, spell it out what I need to do, just please, no grapefruit


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

You never know it could catch on!! i thought it was english perhaps its a southern thing


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Ratliff = fatloss bloody iPhone

Still a bit confused, I feel so dumb


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

And loz, shuuuuut it you northern monkey


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

How are your numbers fella? And yeah I'm going for something like 1lb a week loss here. Your body is able to better process the calories because of the nutrient values and ratios.

For example eating 3000kcal of mars bars will not yield the same weight impact (not body composition) as doing 3000kcal from nutrient rich sources.

But slimmer is good, by week 12 we'll say shredded


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

I might start a thread called 'gems from Team Drago' just for the comedy one liners.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I am losing weight, stupidly fast if I'm honest but still happy with the way I look... I'm still happy with the mirror and the wife is even happier with the feel of me.

Hopefully in 12 weeks/6 months i'd have lost a load of bodyfat (mainly from my waist) and I can lean bulk and look huge (even though I may not be).

Parky, I'll be the first to admit I'm inpatient, is this competition assisted or not? After my pct and rest from

Previous cycle I will be doing another, can I supplement with anything to help or is that not your forte? I have a box of t3 and lean-r and in 4 weeks any aas I want....


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## IngridC (Jul 22, 2012)

Parky said:


> How are your numbers fella? And yeah I'm going for something like 1lb a week loss here. Your body is able to better process the calories because of the nutrient values and ratios.
> 
> For example eating 3000kcal of mars bars will not yield the same weight impact (not body composition) as doing 3000kcal from nutrient rich sources.
> 
> But slimmer is good, by week 12 we'll say shredded


True. And yeah BJ your weight loss while increasing kcal is due to an increase in your metabolism (it burns calories for your body to process all that stuff). You might even be able to increase food intake more as you are able to train harder, and still lose weight. It's a classic.

When the process starts reverting, as it inevitably will, then you can drop your food intake (i.e. mainly carbs). Do the keto diet / carb loading.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Right, first day back of "the diet" today... Oh broccoli how i've missed you!

Parky, whats that keto test I need to buy to check my levels? Can you send the link again please?


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

You aren't doing a keto diet mate - so don't worry about it. No way you'll be consistently keto given the adaptions either sadly.

If you want to try then have a look at Loz's/Malcs diet and follow that.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Fair enough


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Parky,

So will me eating what I do still work how you want it to?(obviously not aswell as the people with more "will power") or is it pointless doing it half hearted?

7am - 200ml LEW, scoop pro6, flax powder, pumpkin seeds, 100g oats

9am - 150g chicken (sprinkle paprika), 1 chilli pepper, 100g broccoli, tbspn evoo + 6 brazil nuts

12pm - as above

3pm - as above

6pm - 65g couscous, 150g lean meat, 100g broccoli / green beans

Post workout - scoop pro6, 100g oats, 20g leucine

10pm scoop pro6, flax


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

That will definitely work matey. That's a great diet IMO, spot on.

I'm not sure I have the will power of Loz right now if I'm honest  - This diet you're doing is much closer to mine than Loz's chicken + broccoli marathon


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Guess I was feeling a tad disheartened with loz's dedication and my "changes"!

Fair play to the machine  haha

So carry on as planned with diet and bi-weekly hour binge?

And it's not just loz on a chicken broccoli marathon, it's all I eat apart from my 8oz rump/broccoli TREAT tonight haha


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ said:


> Guess I was feeling a tad disheartened with loz's dedication and my "changes"!
> 
> Fair play to the machine  haha
> 
> ...


See the beauty of this is the habitual change it will make. After 12 weeks you won't even want to do the binge and you'll actually like the taste of pumpkin seeds etc...

Don't be disheartened though mate, been really impressed with the team as a whole which isn't always easy to get across after working long hours when you're in a bad mood.

I've been down the AAS route many times FYI, the reason I haven't had a chat with you about it is I'm not comfortable endorsing use for others but I've got nothing against assistance. It will help hugely if you go down the keto route. Lets get you to 8 weeks on this diet and then see if we feel we need to drop the carbs more or maybe cycle no carbs for 5 days HUGE carbs for 2 (which is my new diet I'm prepping for myself).


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Don't be disheartend mate I'm sure my magners marathon tonight won't help my cause but still eating the regime and doing workouts thing is this body fat isn't dropping quick enough ,remember though week twelve it can all change I just want it quicker that's all
View attachment 4246


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Parky said:


> See the beauty of this is the habitual change it will make. After 12 weeks you won't even want to do the binge and you'll actually like the taste of pumpkin seeds etc...
> 
> Don't be disheartened though mate, been really impressed with the team as a whole which isn't always easy to get across after working long hours when you're in a bad mood.
> 
> I've been down the AAS route many times FYI, the reason I haven't had a chat with you about it is I'm not comfortable endorsing use for others but I've got nothing against assistance. It will help hugely if you go down the keto route. Lets get you to 8 weeks on this diet and then see if we feel we need to drop the carbs more or maybe cycle no carbs for 5 days HUGE carbs for 2 (which is my new diet I'm prepping for myself).


Understand not endorsing it mate but I love the changes it does to my body and extra strength gives so will be doing it again after my pct and rest.

I thought you said I wasn't keto though, hence not needing the test kit? 2 days of carbs sounds delightful


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Oh and it's my birthday that's why the magners special occasions only

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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Loz, magners is part of my Saturday refeed, otherwise the wife moans at me for being boring


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ said:


> Understand not endorsing it mate but I love the changes it does to my body and extra strength gives so will be doing it again after my pct and rest.
> 
> I thought you said I wasn't keto though, hence not needing the test kit? 2 days of carbs sounds delightful


No at the moment you won't be as your carbs aren't low enough and this wasn't the aim of your diet anyway. If you aren't happy with how much fat you've shedded after 8 weeks then maybe we'll run a keto diet with you.

I know Ingrid is going to publish an executable file which will help dieting hugely so I'd check that out when she does.

And yeah I have used and possibly will use AAS but its a personal choice with emotional and physical ramifications which I'm not comfortable endorsing for other people. Plus I'm less knowledgable on the subject than a lot of guys on the board (Doug, Mightymariner, all the competitors to name a few)


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Mate I lurrve cider so much I can't lie and sugar its been really hard the past week with the holiday and not drinking for ages it's a real culture shock I was on the beach earlier everyone had Ben and jerrys I had turkey with green beans a treat with olive oil and garlic with a splash of fenugreek

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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Loz - ben & jerry don't do anything for me, I can handle that, mr magners however...  fair play for your dedication! You are team drago's Mark cavendish 

Parky - I will keep an eye out for the file, whether I understand it or not is another matter but will try my best to get the knowledge of you guys!

Emotionally I couldn't be better, nothing phases me, I'm seriously considering a decent amount of tren/test for 2nd cycle when b/f is low enough to see massive gains as I know I'd handle it


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

BJ said:


> Loz - ben & jerry don't do anything for me, I can handle that, mr magners however...  fair play for your dedication! You are team drago's Mark cavendish
> 
> Parky - I will keep an eye out for the file, whether I understand it or not is another matter but will try my best to get the knowledge of you guys!
> 
> Emotionally I couldn't be better, nothing phases me, I'm seriously considering a decent amount of tren/test for 2nd cycle when b/f is low enough to see massive gains as I know I'd handle it


Good to hear. The major point I believe most have trouble with is the dramatic loss in strength and size during PCT and post use. You are adding lbm beyond your genetic capability with that dietary intake and all the other factors of growth. So for me the issue is where would I stop? How would I stop. I need to get to where I want naturally otherwise I'll have to be chemically assisted indefinitely.

Test/tren would be exactly what I'll do if I do cross over to the darkside again.

Cal said if I use tren he thinks we'll need a safe word  we'll see.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

He would say that, it would mean defeat! 

Just contemplating the dose really, I hate jabbing and the price of it all so would probably use both enanthate esters once (or twice a week if I had to)... Gonna do my research over my steak, broccoli and nolva then knock team rocky the fcuk out


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Now thats what I'm talking about victory

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## IngridC (Jul 22, 2012)

Parky said:


> No at the moment you won't be as your carbs aren't low enough and this wasn't the aim of your diet anyway. If you aren't happy with how much fat you've shedded after 8 weeks then maybe we'll run a keto diet with you.
> 
> I know Ingrid is going to publish an executable file which will help dieting hugely so I'd check that out when she does.
> 
> And yeah I have used and possibly will use AAS but its a personal choice with emotional and physical ramifications which I'm not comfortable endorsing for other people. Plus I'm less knowledgable on the subject than a lot of guys on the board (Doug, Mightymariner, all the competitors to name a few)


Re: the file, my idea was a relatively simple first version hopefully user-friendly BJ so no worries. Just a reality check on the timeline: I have writen half of the code, still building the food database, plus having basic issues with the prog language that I use converting into an .exe that works... so fyi it will take me a while to release it. This is something I can reasonably finish by this winter, so for the 12 weeks challenge stick to Parky's advice


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

IngridC said:


> Re: the file, my idea was a relatively simple first version hopefully user-friendly BJ so no worries. Just a reality check on the timeline: I have writen half of the code, still building the food database, plus having basic issues with the prog language that I use converting into an .exe that works... so fyi it will take me a while to release it. This is something I can reasonably finish by this winter, so for the 12 weeks challenge stick to Parky's advice


Was trying to give you a friendly motivational push.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

BJ said:


> He would say that, it would mean defeat!
> 
> Just contemplating the dose really, I hate jabbing and the price of it all so would probably use both enanthate esters once (or twice a week if I had to)... Gonna do my research over my steak, broccoli and nolva then knock team rocky the fcuk out


I'd go for lower doses from now on after reading a bit more from doug and Neil R. He uses small doseages in the range of test e 400 mg pw tren 200-300 mg per week. That would be an interesting cycle.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

BJ said:


> He would say that, it would mean defeat!
> 
> Just contemplating the dose really, I hate jabbing and the price of it all so would probably use both enanthate esters once (or twice a week if I had to)... Gonna do my research over my steak, broccoli and nolva then knock team rocky the fcuk out


I'd go for lower doses from now on after reading a bit more from doug and Neil R. He uses small doseages in the range of test e 400 mg pw tren 200-300 mg per week. That would be an interesting cycle.


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