# Epi vs Sarms



## J27 (Oct 3, 2019)

Hey everyone,

looking to start my next cycle soon, I've used Epistane a few times in the past and I've been very happy with the results.

but now it seems a lot of places have stopped selling it. I see predator still have ibe & havoc but I have never bought from them so unsure is they are legit.

Have any of you guys had any experience with Sarms? Will the gains from lgd or rad be better or worse than epi? I also have a few bottles of mk677 that I will run along side which ever way I go

thanks


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Tried LGD and Ostarine and found them both more effective than EPI.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

nWo said:


> Tried LGD and Ostarine and found them both more effective than EPI.


 Did you mean lgd and ostarine run together or each one solo was better than epi ?


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## J27 (Oct 3, 2019)

Thanks for the reply, my options are,

epi+mk677

ldg+mk677

or rad140+mk677

i have no interest in Ostarine as I don't think it fits my goals


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> Did you mean lgd and ostarine run together or each one solo was better than epi ?


 Each on their own mate.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

nWo said:


> Each on their own mate.


 Thanks mate, been toying with trying ostarine myself, what brand and what dose did you run ?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> Thanks mate, been toying with trying ostarine myself, what brand and what dose did you run ?


 Revolver25 is good stuff mate, suppressed my SHBG quite heavily as well so definitely legit lol.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

nWo said:


> Revolver25 is good stuff mate, suppressed my SHBG quite heavily as well so definitely legit lol.


 What were they like on your cholesterol?


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## J27 (Oct 3, 2019)

epi+mk677

ldg+mk677

or rad140+mk677

anyone got an answer on that? , looking for lean mass but don't mind abit of water.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> What were they like on your cholesterol?


 Was a decrease in HDL, can't remember the exact numbers but it was nothing alarming, everything still in normal ranges. No significant change in LDL.

Besides that anyway, after reading quite a bit on this stuff in recent months, seems like the jury is definitely out on whether androgen-based changes in cholesterol are even harmful. This article is really interesting and goes into the probable mechanism by which testosterone alters lipid profiles and why it might not be a cause for concern. "As in vitro data suggest mechanisms by which testosterone could accelerate reverse cholesterol transport [14], a lower HDL-C level could reflect altered kinetics of cholesterol transport that would actually reduce cardio vascular risk." Basically, it appears that androgens make the whole process of assimilating dietary cholesterol more efficient, meaning you may require a lower level of HDL than usual to complete the job of assimilating good cholesterol. Popular "wisdom" also suggests that a raise in LDL = immediate cause for concern, when in actuality, LDL is a complex transport system and isn't just full of bad stuff. An increase in LDL from androgens appears to be an increase in large-particle LDL, which could again be due to an improvement in efficiency and wouldn't in any way be harmful, if that were the case.

That's my understanding from my relatively limited expertise, anyway. Obviously, though, if you've already got problems managing your cholesterol without drugs being thrown into the mix, it's wise to steer clear of any further potential stressors to your lipids. Also extreme dosing of androgens is a different story of course and a humongous difference between your normal and on-cycle lipids is obviously a sign of huge physiological changes that can be stressful on the body.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

nWo said:


> Was a decrease in HDL, can't remember the exact numbers but it was nothing alarming, everything still in normal ranges. No significant change in LDL.
> 
> Besides that anyway, after reading quite a bit on this stuff in recent months, seems like the jury is definitely out on whether androgen-based changes in cholesterol are even harmful. This article is really interesting and goes into the probable mechanism by which testosterone alters lipid profiles and why it might not be a cause for concern. "As in vitro data suggest mechanisms by which testosterone could accelerate reverse cholesterol transport [14], a lower HDL-C level could reflect altered kinetics of cholesterol transport that would actually reduce cardio vascular risk." Basically, it appears that androgens make the whole process of assimilating dietary cholesterol more efficient, meaning you may require a lower level of HDL than usual to complete the job of assimilating good cholesterol. Popular "wisdom" also suggests that a raise in LDL = immediate cause for concern, when in actuality, LDL is a complex transport system and isn't just full of bad stuff. An increase in LDL from androgens appears to be an increase in large-particle LDL, which could again be due to an improvement in efficiency and wouldn't in any way be harmful, if that were the case.
> 
> That's my understanding from my relatively limited expertise, anyway. Obviously, though, if you've already got problems managing your cholesterol without drugs being thrown into the mix, it's wise to steer clear of any further potential stressors to your lipids. Also extreme dosing of androgens is a different story of course and a humongous difference between your normal and on-cycle lipids is obviously a sign of huge physiological changes that can be stressful on the body.


 interesting

i dont have cholesterol issues per se, its just my weak spot with steroids, i never get elevated RBC even on anadrol and equipoise, my blood pressure never gets high even on tren and dbol ect but my cholesterol always gets smashed to pieces by an aggressive blast.

that study is just testosterone? i mean test doesnt really effect me personally to bad, its tren, orals and DHTs that ruin my profile

i get its the same profile being negatively impacted no matter what the steroid but not enough to put my mind at ease

equally how are we explaining the arterial furring if not on a poor HDL to LDL ratio? (HDL 'tidying up the mess' LDL leaves)

yes LDL is needed just like oestrogen is needed but when you let them get too far above range for too long you will incur negative health effects


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

swole troll said:


> interesting
> 
> i dont have cholesterol issues per se, its just my weak spot with steroids, i never get elevated RBC even on anadrol and equipoise, my blood pressure never gets high even on tren and dbol ect but my cholesterol always gets smashed to pieces by an aggressive blast.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, I mean none of it's conclusive and when you start throwing all sorts into the mix then as I basically said above, there's only only so much improvement to one's cholesterol management that androgens can create, so what happens beyond that point can't be good.

Small-particle LDL is, simply put, the s**t that leaks into the arteries and leaves deposits in them. From what I've read, androgens tend not to have much of an effect on this and much more of an effect on large-particle LDL, which for the most part is harmless and is useful. Again, nothing conclusive has been found to my knowledge and it's unknown if the small-particle LDL would start creeping up significantly when high doses are used. In the context of this thread and Ostarine, which is a pretty weak androgen, I wouldn't be concerned about any cholesterol issues, personally.


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## J27 (Oct 3, 2019)

bump

epi+mk677

ldg+mk677

or rad140+mk677

anyone got an answer on that? , looking for lean mass but don't mind abit of water.


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