# Stiff Leg Deadlifts, ouch.



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Did these today as one of my exercises for hams as suggested by Paul Booth.

Went light and only did 2 sets.

My workout partner wanted to go up in weight for another set and I told him I never have done these before so doing less is better.

I could feel they were a bit tight but finished my set.

I was walking over to the leg curl machine when both hams cramped up and I could not walk.

I reached back to find both had cramps in them and were sticking out (protruding) in the middle of the ham.

Boy am I glad we didnt do another set, id be in a wheel chair.

Right now at my desk at work I can feel them fetigued big time.


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## LEWIS (Oct 28, 2005)

lol, i hurt my back doing them, good though. worst thing is the pain now is nothing compared to the pain tomorrow hahaha


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

LEWIS said:


> lol, i hurt my back doing them, good though. worst thing is the pain now is nothing compared to the pain tomorrow hahaha


Well, I did them light, slow and very controlled.

It just hit something that really never got hit before.

Which is strange to me, I do regular dead lifts with zero problems, I also do hamstring curls all the time and even go heavy.

This, this did something

This did more damage than a whole day on the hamstring curl machine could do.


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## LEWIS (Oct 28, 2005)

let me know how you feel in the morning .


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Hee hee!


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Hacksii

Do curls first and stretch out after each set

This will reduce the cramping.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

I have started to do these now - yes they bloody work!

I cant do ham curls Since leg op the outside of my knees click when i do a curl that is resisted..im hoping they will sort them selves out though.

So yeah stiff legged deads for me


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Tinytom said:


> Hacksii
> 
> Do curls first and stretch out after each set
> 
> This will reduce the cramping.


Thanks Tom, I actually didnt even think of this.

I will do this next time.

I cant wait to see what tomorrow brings.

What is strange is there was no intensity at all, there should have been no problems what so ever.

Its almost like that part of the hamstring never was worked at all.


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

Its all about the stretch and control with these.. Basically they are as hard as you care to make them. You could bump the weight up 50% and it probably wouldnt get as effective..


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Its because the hamstring attaches below the kneecap and as such curls dont really stimulate the lower part of the muscle the same as deads.

You may also want to try Duck Press Hackskii, this is a conventional leg press but with your feet placed as high as possible and out as far as possible.

This utilises the hams at the top of the leg where the hams tie in with the glutes. Its something I use towards show time to bring out more separation with thge glutes and hams.

Not a heavy weight exercise but certainly worth doing every now and again at the end of the workout.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

SLDLs are excellent mass builders for the hams.

I prefer GMs myself, but both are excellent choices


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

big said:


> SLDLs are excellent mass builders for the hams.
> 
> I prefer GMs myself, but both are excellent choices


What are GMs?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Good mornings.

Similar movement to the SLDL, but the bar is on your back.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

big said:


> Good mornings.
> 
> Similar movement to the SLDL, but the bar is on your back.


Oh yah, I know the one's.

Right now I am staying away from anything that works my hamstrings, they are terribly fetigued.

I bet they will be jacked within the next few days.

Never ever have I felt such stimulation on the hamstrings.

This one is obviously my weak link so I need to focus more on these (after healing of course)........


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

SLDL much safer than a GM!

Hacks my friend, you hams/glutes/erector spinae wil be screaming todya...enjoy!

SD


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Duck Press? That's a new term I wasn't aware of. Well, you learn something new every day. I was aware that the higher the foot position the more hams & glutes were recruited, but I never tried it with a wide stance.

Gotta ask, how did it get the name 'duck press'?



Tinytom said:


> Its because the hamstring attaches below the kneecap and as such curls dont really stimulate the lower part of the muscle the same as deads.
> 
> You may also want to try Duck Press Hackskii, this is a conventional leg press but with your feet placed as high as possible and out as far as possible.
> 
> ...


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

im with Big, gotta love the good mornings!!

hows you today hacks?


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> Duck Press? That's a new term I wasn't aware of. Well, you learn something new every day. I was aware that the higher the foot position the more hams & glutes were recruited, but I never tried it with a wide stance.
> 
> Gotta ask, how did it get the name 'duck press'?


You've got to ask Captain Anabolic mate

Remember him from the old Flex mags

I read through them sometimes and dig up old exercises.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

LEWIS said:


> lol, i hurt my back doing them, good though. worst thing is the pain now is nothing compared to the pain tomorrow hahaha


You should keep your back arched, it is usually called a Romanian Deadlift, the bar cant normally go lower than mid shin on most people, but it is safer for the back, and more effective for the hamstrings.

I dont do them that often as I cant recover from both SLDL and regular deadlifts when done in the same 'week', and regular DL's are far more important to me.

However the DOMS from SLDL is like nothing else, I have been sore for 8 days before, 

A great exercise.


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

how much weight do u guys normally shift on SLDL i use about 230kg on normal deads but when it comes to SLDL i normally drop right down to 100k.. am i being a slacker and takign it too easy or is this the norm?


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

DB, no mate, you're doing right there. I can deadlift four plates on a good day for reps, but only two for SLDL.

Nytol,

I'm not sure anyone should perform any kind of deadlift with an arched back, major risk of disc herniation. The head should be kept up, most of the weight on the heels & stick the butt out slightly to counterbalance (depends on how big the butt is!). Then, depending on the type of deadlift, the motion should be extension of the hips & knees, or just the hips.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

i must say i'm another that favours GMs since i have recently started doing them...

i can personally go quite heavy with SLDLs for some reason - i have a similar DL to you DB but i have done 150kg for 10 Stiff leg deadlifting - this was however when on cycle and strength was at a max...

i go as low as when i can start to see my lower back 'love handles' at about the same height as my shoulders...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

They are stiff today but just where they cramped up in both legs.

My legs feel fuller today too.


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## LEWIS (Oct 28, 2005)

walked up or down any stairs yet?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah, only spot that hurts id right dead center of both hamstrings.

They are sore but I think the muscle soreness was from the cramp, as it is in the exact same spot as the cramp.

Man am I ever glad I only did two light sets, if I listened to my training partner we would have gone heavier on the next set and that really would have gotten ugly.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> Nytol,
> 
> I'm not sure anyone should perform any kind of deadlift with an arched back, major risk of disc herniation. The head should be kept up, most of the weight on the heels & stick the butt out slightly to counterbalance (depends on how big the butt is!). Then, depending on the type of deadlift, the motion should be extension of the hips & knees, or just the hips.


I am sure you are aware of the form regarding a Romanian deadlift, what I am saying is that there is no rounding of the back, therefore keeping it out of the movement to a large degree.

The hips and butt should come out as the weight decends.

DB, I think your being a pussy,


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Far be it from me to argue that DB is not a pussy but....

SLDL is an eccentric exercise, therefore you can get quality muscle damage (the good kind) from a relatively light weight. I find that my erector spinae limit the weight I can do with SLDL, so I go lighter and go for reps, I still get major DOMS...marvelous!

SD


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

SportDr said:


> Far be it from me to argue that DB is not a pussy but....
> 
> . I find that my erector spinae limit the weight I can do with SLDL, !
> 
> SD


yeah i heard your back is weak...

i also hear you get your back knocked out daily


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Nytol,

My mistake, after posting, I realised that you did'nt mean a rounded back as I thought originally. By arched, I now presume you meant simply maintaining the proper lumbar & thoracic curve. This is indeed correct technique



Nytol said:


> I am sure you are aware of the form regarding a Romanian deadlift, what I am saying is that there is no rounding of the back, therefore keeping it out of the movement to a large degree.
> 
> The hips and butt should come out as the weight decends.
> 
> DB, I think your being a pussy,


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> I now presume you meant simply maintaining the proper lumbar & thoracic curve.


I did indeed,


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Got there in the end, did'nt I?!


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## Aftershock (Jan 28, 2004)

DB said:


> how much weight do u guys normally shift on SLDL i use about 230kg on normal deads but when it comes to SLDL i normally drop right down to 100k.. am i being a slacker and takign it too easy or is this the norm?


Im the same mate... I have been higher but now realise its just asking for trouble, the pressure on the back of the knee is to much and I've been injured a couple of times.


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## welly (May 12, 2006)

I love this exercise but have had lower back problems in the past so dont tend to go heavy on them, for me its all about technique and control. Slow rep cadence go till I feel the stretch and at keep the core tight at all times. In fact at the end of my working set not only are my hams, glutes and lower back tired but my abs and obliques are as well.

Mind you its not an exercise I would recomend anyone start to do without guidance or someone watching your form, seen far to many really bad techniques doing this in the gym


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Aftershock said:


> Im the same mate... I have been higher but now realise its just asking for trouble, the pressure on the back of the knee is to much and I've been injured a couple of times.


I find it is much better to keep a slight bend in the knee, the knee joint does not move, but it is not locked out straight.


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

Nytol said:


> I find it is much better to keep a slight bend in the knee, the knee joint does not move, but it is not locked out straight.


ditto!


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Welly does go heavy, you were using as much as I do last time! You seem to have much more strength than most guys training naturally.

Your PT must be an absolute genius.....................:hail:

See you tomorrow, and it's legs as well...


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Update........

Day after my hams hurt only where the cramps were.

My training partner (the one that wanted to go heavier) came to my area at work and said his hamstrings were destroyed....haaaa haaaa, thats funny as he wanted me to go heavier and do another set.

Today my hamstrings are pretty beat up and the whole hamstring is sore now.

I really feel this is my weak link and my legs feel fuller today and actually better.

I suspect my quad's were overpowering my hamstrings and tossing out the alignment of my knees to some degree.

Funny thing, my knees feel great today.

I can honestly say I will continue doing these and I am actually expecting my legs to explode from them.

Its never too late to learn somthing new.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

I'll see that 'hee hee' & raise you a 'told you so' :bounce:


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## welly (May 12, 2006)

Hackskii,

Don't forget to mix up with Hyperextensions as Ninepack mentioned as well. Do these nice and slow and hold a weight if necessary. Much safer to go to failure on hypers than SLDL.

And Nine Pack my PT is pretty good (better say that otherwise ill be killed in my leg session)


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

hackskii said:


> I suspect my quad's were overpowering my hamstrings and tossing out the alignment of my knees to some degree.
> 
> Funny thing, my knees feel great today.
> 
> Its never too late to learn somthing new.


Charles Poliquin used to write quite a bit about hamstring/quad strength ratio, and the risk of knee injury.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nytol said:


> Charles Poliquin used to write quite a bit about hamstring/quad strength ratio, and the risk of knee injury.


Man, I would like to read some of that.

Muscle ballance is so important.

Id be curious to see what he suggests on the ratio.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

I feel dirty and unclean suggesting this (  ), but; he used to write for T nation, and I imagine a lot of his old articles will be archived over there.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

welly said:


> Hackskii,
> 
> Don't forget to mix up with Hyperextensions as Ninepack mentioned as well. Do these nice and slow and hold a weight if necessary. Much safer to go to failure on hypers than SLDL.
> 
> And Nine Pack my PT is pretty good (better say that otherwise ill be killed in my leg session)


Pretty good??? Oh deary, deary me. Tomorrows leg session is going to be so much fun........................for me.:crazy:


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## welly (May 12, 2006)

Bring it on (I just know I am going to regret this)


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

After reading this thread, I think I might be missing the point of these exercises somewhat, as I am aiming for 180kg for 3-5 reps. Should I drop the weight & aim for higher reps?

If I do this, what about progression, should I still try & add 2.5kg as often as possible, or just cycle within a higher & lower boundary?

On a different note, I find these hit my rear delts nicely, &, to a lesser degree, lats.

Ta.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

SCJP said:


> After reading this thread, I think I might be missing the point of these exercises somewhat, as I am aiming for 180kg for 3-5 reps. Should I drop the weight & aim for higher reps?
> 
> If I do this, what about progression, should I still try & add 2.5kg as often as possible, or just cycle within a higher & lower boundary?
> 
> ...


IMO it should be treated no different to any other exercise, as long as your form does not suffer, add weight when you can.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

welly said:


> Bring it on (I just know I am going to regret this)


I did bring it on, and he did regret it. :rip:


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## welly (May 12, 2006)

Nah it was a walk in the park (actually that is not something I fancy right now. Ill just stay sat down if thats ok)


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

welly said:


> Nah it was a walk in the park (actually that is not something I fancy right now. Ill just stay sat down if thats ok)


Yeah, if your local park is the north face of the Eiger.


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Nytol said:


> IMO it should be treated no different to any other exercise, as long as your form does not suffer, add weight when you can.


Cheers.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

It should indeed be treated like any other exercise, however the increments we increase the weight by should be very small each time we progress. There is only a finite amount of weight you can use on this movement before it begins to outstrip the bounds of safety.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> It should indeed be treated like any other exercise, however the increments we increase the weight by should be very small each time we progress.


I believe this is true of all exercise, little and often is the way forward, I wish more gyms stocked 1/2 kilo plates.

Too many people are hung up on going from 1, 20kg plate per side to 2, to 3 etc, and they are almost embarresed to use the little plates.

The little plates are where the true progress is IMO.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Yeah, we need more 'smarties' to hang on the bar!

It reminds me of that tale about the farmer who picks up a calf every day (baby cow, not his lower leg!) and eventually, after a few years he is picking up a cow. Small increments are less noticeable to us, but the body can tell & will keep adapting.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

Nine Pack said:


> Small increments are less noticeable to us, but the body can tell & will keep adapting.


That should be painted on the wall of every gym in the country, if only more people would get that message, most would be a lot bigger and stronger.

:thumb:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nine Pack said:


> Yeah, we need more 'smarties' to hang on the bar!
> 
> It reminds me of that tale about the farmer who picks up a calf every day (baby cow, not his lower leg!) and eventually, after a few years he is picking up a cow. Small increments are less noticeable to us, but the body can tell & will keep adapting.


I have the same story but I use a pig.

It has merrit.

If it took 3 years for a pig to get to 300 lbs, you would be able to pick it up.

But if it grew that fast in a month you wouldnt be able to pick it up.


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

Cow, schmow, I'm going to get a baby elephant.

Just you watch, in three years time........................I'll have been trampled to death by an angry elephant. :lift:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Nine Pack said:


> Cow, schmow, I'm going to get a baby elephant.
> 
> Just you watch, in three years time........................I'll have been trampled to death by an angry elephant. :lift:


Or like the old saying, if it doesnt kill ya it will make you stronger.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

All this farmyard talk is beginning to worry me.

weirdos.:crazy:


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## Nine Pack (Oct 30, 2006)

It's all that damn equipoise!

Just off out to have my mane trimmed.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Tinytom said:


> All this farmyard talk is beginning to arouse me.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

OH really Mr Big?

You just wait until I see an opportunity for your posts.

he he he he


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