# Dead support



## Cragels (Jul 22, 2011)

Hi recently been pushing my dead lift weight up but having trouble with my left hand opening up and loosing my grip. If I were to get some straps would that slow forearm progression (they are only little) or should I just keep plugin on and wait for the grip strength to improve. Also is there a Benefit to having hands opposite as currently do deads with palms toward me.


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## justheretosnoop (Jun 15, 2012)

Liquid chalk dude along with alternate grip.

Coming to you from a sunny place... B-)


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

i have to use straps, i got girls hands and anything over 100kgs i simply cant hold onto.


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

I'll be trying out straps tonight on my Deads, my grip was just giving way at like 120+ I think


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## Chrissy....... (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes one hand over one under will make a huge difference.


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## Cragels (Jul 22, 2011)

Dorsey said:


> Liquid chalk dude along with alternate grip.
> 
> Coming to you from a sunny place... B-)


Your supposed to be relaxing on your hols bud not responding to questions. Lol

I'm off on holiday and there is no chance I will be checking on MC.

I will try the liquid chalk first as I want to build my forearms


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## Cragels (Jul 22, 2011)

So should I use the weaker arm under or over (palm to me)


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

I would go with which ever way feels comfortable toyou, but maybe I'm wrong.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

no wraps cragels please.

you feel more natural one way..

add smaller increments to the bar bud.

this will allow your hands to adapt.

you might try some thick bar holds or one handed deads to improve your grip


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## Cragels (Jul 22, 2011)

Ok thanks for the respond guys

Cal, as you know I'm off on holiday Friday I will ring you on the 11th when I am back could you please look at my training prog in the Rock thread so we can discuss as I want to hit it hard on my return.


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

What are you doing deads for?? your grip! I doubt it, you do what ever it takes to get your last few reps out, the ones that count! I personally use power grips,I have small hands and an olympic bar is a fat bar to me, and i dont want my grip failing and hampering my training, but thats just my opinion, your forearms get enough just picking weight up....


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## roadrunner11466868009 (Mar 28, 2011)

I would say first try the alternate grip method with chalk, if does not work USE straps. I dont see any point in holding back on deads just to help your forearms, you can always train them separately if you feel it would help.


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## bornagainmeathead (Nov 26, 2011)

Try the alternate grip method and chalk.

I never use straps or hooks for deads or partial deads.

The only way your grip will get stronger is by overloading it.

A couple of years ago I had to use straps for anything above 170kg, then I discovered liquid chalk and now lift 320kg partial with no straps.

I persevered with the alternate grip method and chalk and it makes a huge difference to the amount of weight you can comfortably hold and now I have built up a decent grip strength.

Sent from my own little world


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I'll agree with that, I struggle with 90kg for 10 tonight I usually do 110kg after leaving my chalk at home


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Chalk beats sweaty palms hands down!


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## Cragels (Jul 22, 2011)

Chalk it is then.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Rr stop it your killin me


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

We have a saying between my group of gym friends - no straps, no belt, no gloves, no problem.

If you can't hold on to something do some grip work. If you're using straps you aren't strong enough to be lifting the weight IMO.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

Parky said:


> We have a saying between my group of gym friends - no straps, no belt, no gloves, no problem.
> 
> If you can't hold on to something do some grip work. If you're using straps you aren't strong enough to be lifting the weight IMO.


I'm a big fan of methodology of if I can't hold it I shouldn't be lifting it...

But I do wear marigolds as someone once told me!


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm no ***** man and I wear gloves I still get ripped blisters from deads
View attachment 4243


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## Bacon3612 (May 8, 2012)

Parky said:


> We have a saying between my group of gym friends - no straps, no belt, no gloves, no problem.
> 
> If you can't hold on to something do some grip work. If you're using straps you aren't strong enough to be lifting the weight IMO.


Sorry but completeley disagree, i use Straps for deads but try to only use them on the final working set.

My grip gives out before my back does, straps enable me to work the muscle i'm targetting past the limiting factor of my grip.

loads of pro bodybuilders use straps, belts etc.... are they all to weak to be lifting the poundages they do??


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

Some common sense at last! i sometimes wonder what the goal is for some poeple on here?! Like Dorian Yates said when asked about his maximum 1 rep weight " I dont know I dont do one rep" you have to get the reps out heavy and I dont work to the failure of my grip!

I use a belt, not for chest or shoulders or some back work, but if i am doing an exercise that requires that protection then it goes on, either that or write out a new routine, monday leg, rest of my life off with a back injury!!


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

I use gloves due to having dermatitis and metal contact plays havoc with my hands my grip strength is not affected in any way. In fact I'm sure chalk would be easier as I am gripping wider by using a barrier albeit a few mm and not chalk as I get grip failure and slip with them on

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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

I have done block and beam work, anyone know about construction or has done this will know how hard it is, especially on the hands, if a bar is ripping your hands apart you do something about it, if you want to wear gloves wear them! anything else is misplaced matcho egotistical bullsh1t, and there is no room for that in a gym, the same person giving you [email protected] about that is on his mobile phone for 10 minutes before doing some more bicep curls in the sqaut rack!


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

Bacon3612 said:


> Sorry but completeley disagree, i use Straps for deads but try to only use them on the final working set.
> 
> My grip gives out before my back does, straps enable me to work the muscle i'm targetting past the limiting factor of my grip.
> 
> loads of pro bodybuilders use straps, belts etc.... are they all to weak to be lifting the poundages they do??


No worries disagreement is a good thing. Never understand why people throw a hissy fit when people disagree with them. You make some good points. I'm not particularly invested in the merits of 'no straps' etc... - but I'm interested in functional strength so I do a lot of snatch, clean and jerks etc... I'd never use a belt or straps as then I wouldn't count the reps. Physiologically its probably a better idea in terms of core strength to not use a belt - but I completely see your point of view.


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

freddee said:


> I have done block and beam work, anyone know about construction or has done this will know how hard it is, especially on the hands, if a bar is ripping your hands apart you do something about it, if you want to wear gloves wear them! anything else is misplaced matcho egotistical bullsh1t, and there is no room for that in a gym, the same person giving you [email protected] about that is on his mobile phone for 10 minutes before doing some more bicep curls in the sqaut rack!


Good post. I think there is far too much of that when trying to take a more analytical approach to the sport. The 'just lift big, eat big, grow' mentality.


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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

I fialed at 120kg last night in the gym, I've got straps but I'm in two minds whether to use them or not going forward just to get the weight up or, do I just let my body adapt naturally.

I'm not using anything at the minute, no chalk, no liquid chalk, nadda...


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## bornagainmeathead (Nov 26, 2011)

freddee said:


> I have done block and beam work, anyone know about construction or has done this will know how hard it is, especially on the hands, if a bar is ripping your hands apart you do something about it, if you want to wear gloves wear them! anything else is misplaced matcho egotistical bullsh1t, and there is no room for that in a gym, the same person giving you [email protected] about that is on his mobile phone for 10 minutes before doing some more bicep curls in the sqaut rack!


I see your point and respect your opinion and for some people that is spot on. For others it may not be.

I don't where a belt through choice.

After a bad back / rib injury I spent a lot of time building core strength which I wouldn't have been able to do being supported by a belt. No macho bull****, just the way I train for strength.

Again with straps, I don't need them.

If I cant lift a weight it's not because my grip has failed its because I have not got the strength left to lift that weight.

Job done.

I do however train more for strength than bodybuilding.

Of course we all have an ego to a certain degree or we wouldn't be doing what we do.

The main thing is, why works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone.


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

I'd say strap up and get the weight up.

Your forearms will still grow because you'll still be holding on as best you can, why hold back progress because of a weak area? It doesn't make sense to me.

I would personally never deadliest with an alternating grip, it is one of the best ways to cause your spine to curve in ways it's not meant to and creates an imbalance in the shoulder girdle. It will help if you are a powerlifeter but as a bodybuilder you are doing this for aesthetics so a curved spine and rotation in the shoulder girdle will just make you look imbalanced - not good.

If you want to compete as a powerlifter leave the straps alone but if not, strap up. If you want to improve your grip hand from a bar at the end of your workouts for as long as you can till your grip gives way, time yourself, it's easy to map progress.


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## justin case (Jul 31, 2012)

i use straps on dead lift and chin ups because I HAVE TO....it's either straps or not do the exercises at all...my hands are the weakest part of me, they are the size of a girls hands and try as i have over the years i cannot do anything with them in regards to making them strong enough to hold a really heavy bar.

theres an old saying...dont judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes....well don't judge me until you have tried to lift heavy weights with my hands.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

I agree with extreme. I try to do deads minus straps but if I need them I'll use them.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i reckon if your grip is the weak area, the next weak link in the chain is keeping lower back flat and safe during a lift.

i`d rather lose my grip then lose back position.

i really like the reasoning behind a double overhand grip tho, cos i can only mix my grip comfortably one way.. so you have got me thinking doug..

i did check out your hands when we met dude, theyre fcuking massive lol.

would you recommend strapping up for any working weight if it causes you to lose grip?

ive got small hands and relatively speaking big forearms imo cos i dont strap up, never had a grip problem on a working weight cos i keep the increments small.

this i think is the key point if you add weight too quickly (which i think is common) you`ll risk your grip or your back..

once youve built the weights up to a sh1t your pants heavy weight and weight additions to the bar are imperceptible,your body will adapt to the new each week and you`ll get it safely..

i think if youve got the self discipline to lift safely tho strapping up with a double overhand grip and then doing extra grip work is a good idea.


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Extreme said:


> I'd say strap up and get the weight up.
> 
> Your forearms will still grow because you'll still be holding on as best you can, why hold back progress because of a weak area? It doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> ...


I normally lift one overhand one under due to what you just said I may need to change it. Although I find it really helps my grip this way ?


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

I have huge forearms, they really cause me problems when buying leathers for on my bike bcos I can't get my arms in them! But, I don't have a particularly great grip strength, so my train of thought is if my grip can't handle the task, strap up, move the bigger weight and force the area I'm trying to train to grow and that area in this case is lower back, spinal erectors, traps, quads and lats.

Why inhibit these areas bcos of a weak grip?

My colleague at work, Liam Armstrong, is the WDFPA former world champion and current holder of 2 world records, liam has not competed for 2 years due to severe impingement of his shoulders and an imbalance in his back due to a curve in his spine and his shoulder girdle being out of line. This is a result of lifting crazy heavy weights with an over/under grip for 10 years. Liam now needs cortisone injections and possibly surgery on his shoulders.

As a powerlifter I can understand why people would want to lift with no straps, but as a bodybuilder it makes no sense whatsoever. I could pull up to 180kg with no straps BUT I could pull up to 320kg for 2 with straps so how could I justify letting my grip strength stop me from using weights the rest of my body could manage?

If bodybuilding is about enhancing your aesthetics surely you would do whatever you could to help you reach that goal?


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

On that note my grip is changed from here on. Good post doug


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Will try too and see how i get on remember trying it before and thought it was more difficult to grip

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## X3_1986 (Oct 12, 2010)

Good post Doug, but it's a shame we've had to learn not just by being informed of the possiblities but knowing that it has actaully affected someone and how serious it actually can be.

Does Liam Still Train, or has he had to put a stop to it?


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## jordan_ (Mar 5, 2011)

Loz said:


> Will try too and see how i get on remember trying it before and thought it was more difficult to grip
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is harder mate but I'd rather that then have a curved spine lol


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

not sure i agree about not needing a strong grip tbh, but as long as your grip is worked independently your logic makes sense doug..

i spose ive made it my goal to never need straps and not limit my lifts.

its like cycling up a hill on the way to work everyday, you wanna walk up on a windy day, but you cant let yourself..

i possibly have different priorities to alot of members, i`m not a bodybuilder or a powerlifter i just like lifting weights and how it makes me look and the way it makes me feel.


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## philb125 (Mar 24, 2012)

I think I'm similar to cal in that I'm not a bodybuilder or power lifter. I do enjoy aspects.

Where I differ is I'm very early stages of training again. I see deads as something to work my grip, arms, traps, and back. Ive not done any arm work but had most noticeable changers there since starting.

I started at same time as a mate, he uses straps. When doing some cable calf raises the other day his grip failed on final set. I laughed and said see where your straps got you!


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm not at the stage where straps are any more benefit to chalk, my grip doesn't fail with chalk before I run out of steam @ 120kg...

I can see dogs point of view though when up in the 300's


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Who's dog??? Lol

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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Haha doug


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

jordan0689 said:


> On that note my grip is changed from here on. Good post doug


I can pull a huge amount more with an over/under grip. I'm going to change this up from now based on this. I will not be enjoying deads again for a while...


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## Loz1466868022 (Oct 12, 2011)

Me neither will be interesting though

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## AChappell (Jun 1, 2011)

Doug's post is pretty much in agreement with my own philosophy your bodybuilding at the end of the day so you shouldn't limit your progress because of a weak grip, similarly you shouldn't then neglect trying to improve your grip just because you can use straps. While using an alternative grip with straps makes little sense like Doug has already said. At the say time I very much agree with Parky in terms of building functional strength. If I could start training as a 16year again, I'd try to avoid a belt at all cost to ensure my core was strong enough and my grip at the same time. Then again my legs might never be as big as they are now with the additional support.

The quality of the bar your using can make a real difference a cheap health club barbell is worth around £70 a texas powerbar is superior quality and might be worth £500+ and it will make a difference to the amount of weight you can lift from the floor. I could do well over 180kg with a decent bar, with a poor bar 100kg becomes a struggle.

Using straps, chalk, an alternative grip and a better quality bar are all ways you can improve your grip, that don't require any additional training. So long as you only wrap when required I don't tihnk your forearm development will suffer, mines never has.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

BJ said:


> I'm not at the stage where straps are any more benefit to chalk, my grip doesn't fail with chalk before I run out of steam @ 120kg...
> 
> I can see dougs point of view though when up in the 300's


this is my view better said..


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