# Is there a perfect ratio of protein:carbs:fat to gain muscle and not add fat?



## pds999

I keep reading that in growth cycles you need to pile on the calories and sacrifice the inevitable extra pounds of fat you will put on in order to gain muscle. Surely there must be a point where the calorie/protein intake ratio is absolutely spot on to maximise muscle growth and minimise fat accumulation?

For example, I am currently on a test-e 500mg per week cycle (5 weeks in) and have been taking in around 2,750 cals per day with around 250g protein. At the outset I was told that was nowhere near enough calories and I would make no gains, etc. However I know my body and my metabolic rate and I have had good strength gains but have still put on a couple of percent body fat and gained over a stone in weight. That tells me I have consumed too many calories and some have been stored as fat (although clearly some of the weight will be muscle and some water).

How do you get the ratio spot on to maximise muscle growth (and make the best use of the cycle you are on) while minimising any fat gain?


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## Lost Soul

No you have gained water

2750 calories is not enough to put a stone of tissue on a body

there are no ratios as ratios are blown out the window when TDEE changes

ratios dont factor in how people metabolise food, their lifestyle and their genetics

you can get fat in a calorie deficit and its not universally a sign of too many calories

if you find out the calculation to work out muscle with no fat gain dont tell anyone, patent it and retire to a secluded island with £1 zillion to fcuk about with


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> No you have gained water
> 
> 2750 calories is not enough to put a stone of tissue on a body
> 
> there are no ratios as ratios are blown out the window when TDEE changes
> 
> ratios dont factor in how people metabolise food, their lifestyle and their genetics
> 
> *you can get fat in a calorie deficit and its not universally a sign of too many calories*
> 
> if you find out the calculation to work out muscle with no fat gain dont tell anyone, patent it and retire to a secluded island with £1 zillion to fcuk about with


That is the root of my question though: if I am putting on fat (and I am definitely putting on fat, albeit it not a stone as you rightly say) on my current diet on cycle then surely I am taking in too many calories? I understand muscle growth is more than just protein intake and calorific intake is needed to give the cells energy to grow, etc. But there must be a point where you minimise fat accumulation and maximise muscle growth in terms of calories taken in? Those calories my body has stored as fat have effectively been wasted somewhere down the line and not used as energy for muscle growth or expended naturally. It just seems very unscientific to me to take in say 4,000 calories to build muscle, knowing you will pile on fat, only to then have to go on a cutting diet 3 months later to get rid of that fat?

I totally take your point that there is no one calculation to work out this figure for everyone. But there must be a ratio of protein:calories (different for everyone) where it is possible to maximise muscle growth and minimise any fat accumulation on a growth cycle? There has to be.


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## Guest

What is your diet?

What is your training?

Do you drink or do rec drugs?

On your cals i would shrivel away to nothing let alone grow.


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## Lost Soul

I will say it again

you can get fat in a calorie deficit

All real gains will be seen after PCT too


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## pds999

Con said:


> What is your diet?
> 
> What is your training?
> 
> Do you drink or do rec drugs?
> 
> On your cals i would shrivel away to nothing let alone grow.


Train five times a week. Standard stuff. Chest Monday, Abs/cardio Tuesday, Arms Wednesday, Abs/cardio Thursday and Legs/Shoulders/Back on Friday. Normal routines, mix it up, some supersets, dropsets, some lower reps, etc, etc.

Drink a little, not much. No drugs.

Diet is very clean:

All Bran/Banana for breakfast

Tin baked beans (cold, love em)

Two large tins tuna and lite mayo

Two protein shakes (50g protein in each)

Normal dinner

Fresh veg/rice/pasta, etc

Apples

Water (lots of it)

I have basically added approx 750 calories daily to my pre-cycle diet (where my weight was stable down to the nearest lb for 18 months) which has still resulted in me putting on 18lbs of weight in 5 weeks on test-e (500mg per week). I am sure some is water but I am running Arimidex so I doubt water is a huge part of it. I am a student right now though so when not working out/cardio I lead an extremely sedentary lifestyle as I am doing a Masters dissertation so sitting at a PC much of the day. I think that right now, for whatever reason, I have a very slow metabolism and seem to put on weight very easily.


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## thestudbeast

pds999 said:


> That is the root of my question though: if I am putting on fat (and I am definitely putting on fat, albeit it not a stone as you rightly say) on my current diet on cycle then surely I am taking in too many calories? I understand muscle growth is more than just protein intake and calorific intake is needed to give the cells energy to grow, etc. But there must be a point where you minimise fat accumulation and maximise muscle growth in terms of calories taken in? Those calories my body has stored as fat have effectively been wasted somewhere down the line and not used as energy for muscle growth or expended naturally. It just seems very unscientific to me to take in say 4,000 calories to build muscle, knowing you will pile on fat, only to then have to go on a cutting diet 3 months later to get rid of that fat?
> 
> I totally take your point that there is no one calculation to work out this figure for everyone. But there must be a ratio of protein:calories (different for everyone) where it is possible to maximise muscle growth and minimise any fat accumulation on a growth cycle? There has to be.


The bloat from test can look like fat espesially around the mid section, whats your body type ecto/meso/endo?

Muscle is much harder to gain than fat is to lose hence why people put a little fat on while gaining muscle, cutting is easy!


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## Tatyana

pds999 said:


> That is the root of my question though: if I am putting on fat (and I am definitely putting on fat, albeit it not a stone as you rightly say) on my current diet on cycle then surely I am taking in too many calories? I understand muscle growth is more than just protein intake and calorific intake is needed to give the cells energy to grow, etc. But there must be a point where you minimise fat accumulation and maximise muscle growth in terms of calories taken in? Those calories my body has stored as fat have effectively been wasted somewhere down the line and not used as energy for muscle growth or expended naturally. *It just seems very unscientific to me to take in say 4,000 calories to build muscle, knowing you will pile on fat, only to then have to go on a cutting diet 3 months later to get rid of that fat?*
> 
> I totally take your point that there is no one calculation to work out this figure for everyone. But there must be a ratio of protein:calories (different for everyone) where it is possible to maximise muscle growth and minimise any fat accumulation on a growth cycle? There has to be.


There is no magic ratio of carbs to protein (your forgot fat BTW as that also factors into growth).

I know that I put on more muscle when I am leaner, so for a woman, that is under 17-20%.

If your bodyfat is higher to begin with, and for men that is above 15%, there would be more of a tendency for the insulin response to drive nutrient to fat storage rather than muscle storage, no matter how many calories or what ratio of macros you are eating.


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## pds999

thestudbeast said:


> The bloat from test can look like fat espesially around the mid section, whats your body type ecto/meso/endo?
> 
> Muscle is much harder to gain than fat is to lose hence why people put a little fat on while gaining muscle, cutting is easy!


Difficult to say my body type. I was most definitely an ectomorph but over the last 5 years have put on weight much more easily. So in truth I am still probably an ectomorph (by body shape at least) but whose metabolism has slowed down.


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## Lost Soul

If I am going to be honest, you (IMO) should not be doing steroids if you think the below is suitable to grow on



> All Bran/Banana for breakfast
> 
> Tin baked beans (cold, love em)
> 
> Two large tins tuna and lite mayo
> 
> Two protein shakes (50g protein in each)
> 
> Normal dinner
> 
> Fresh veg/rice/pasta, etc
> 
> Apples
> 
> Water (lots of it)


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> I will say it again
> 
> you can get fat in a calorie deficit
> 
> All real gains will be seen after PCT too


Yep, will obviously need to wait a while to see the net effect. I could of course pack in 4,000 calories a day but given my metabolism and how I have responded before (not on cycle admittedly), I think it would be a complete waste and I would end up putting on a lot of fat and no more muscle than I am now. I am still shocked at gaining 18lbs in 5 weeks on test-e. That seems a hell of a lot to me.


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## Lost Soul

Tatyana said:


> There is no magic ratio of carbs to protein (your forgot fat BTW as that also factors into growth).
> 
> I know that I put on more muscle when I am leaner, so for a woman, that is under 17-20%.
> 
> If your bodyfat is higher to begin with, and for men that is above 15%, there would be more of a tendency for the insulin response to drive nutrient to fat storage rather than muscle storage, no matter how many calories or what ratio of macros you are eating.


According to Charles Poliquin (I paraphrase BTW)

If over 10% body fat for a man, or over 15-20% for a woman, you are fat.

I bet he is a joy to date if you have any insecurities :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> If I am going to be honest, you (IMO) should not be doing steroids if you think the below is suitable to grow on


This is what it comes back to though, i.e. that I know my body and how much I need to eat to grow (off cycle). I have had 15% strength increases so far and gained the 18lbs I mentioned above. I don't think I would have had much more gain if I was taking in 4,000 calories, other than more fat accumulation?


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> Yep, will obviously need to wait a while to see the net effect. I could of course pack in 4,000 calories a day but given my metabolism and how I have responded before (not on cycle admittedly), I think it would be a complete waste and I would end up putting on a lot of fat and no more muscle than I am now. I am still shocked at gaining 18lbs in 5 weeks on test-e. That seems a hell of a lot to me.


you can gain fat on 2500 calories a day even if you need 2750 to maintain your weight


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> This is what it comes back to though, i.e. that I know my body and how much I need to eat to grow (off cycle). I have had 15% strength increases so far and gained the 18lbs I mentioned above. I don't think I would have had much more gain if I was taking in 4,000 calories, other than more fat accumulation?


With all dues respect how the fcuk do you expect to gain muscle when after a fast or 8.10 or 12 hours overnight you eat

quote



> All Bran/Banana for breakfast


Cmon mate this is basic stuff


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## Tatyana

Your diet is diabollically bad.

Full of refined sugar and crappy fats.


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## Tatyana

Lost Soul said:


> According to Charles Poliquin (I paraphrase BTW)
> 
> If over 10% body fat for a man, or over 15-20% for a woman, you are fat.
> 
> I bet he is a joy to date if you have any insecurities :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I still look ok up to 25 %, but prefer less as I smooth over too much otherwise.


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> With all dues respect how the fcuk do you expect to gain muscle when after a fast or 8.10 or 12 hours overnight you eat
> 
> quote
> 
> Cmon mate this is basic stuff


That is actually a very fair point you make.


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## Lost Soul

Tatyana said:


> I still look ok up to 25 %, but prefer less as I smooth over too much otherwise.


Not good enough for charles...join the back of the queu witht the other 'fat folk' :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## pds999

Tatyana said:


> Your diet is diabollically bad.
> 
> Full of refined sugar and crappy fats.


Refined sugar and crappy fats??! Where is the refined sugar and crappy fats in my diet?

Tuna

Protein shakes

Baked beans

Veg

Apples

Bananas

Muesli/All Bran

Brown rice

Pasta

??!


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> That is actually a very fair point you make.


Nutritonally you are anabolic for about 1/3 of the day if that and even then the efficiency of that is questionable

No sign of essential fats and to quote charles (or paraphrase him once again :lol: :lol

Omega 3 Fatty Acids from pharmaceutical grade fish oils are the most valuable supplement you can take. The subject should take 15g/day for two weeks if deficient, then reduce the dosage to 5g/day indefinitely after that. Fish oils will help burn fat and prevent fat gain. They improve serotonin levels (mood), make it easier to move nutrients in and out of cell walls, reduce joint inflammation, decrease the amount of sugar your body will absorb, improves blood pressure and decrease insulin output when taken with a meal.


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> Nutritonally you are anabolic for about 1/3 of the day if that and even then the efficiency of that is questionable
> 
> No sign of essential fats and to quote charles (or paraphrase him once again :lol: :lol
> 
> Omega 3 Fatty Acids from pharmaceutical grade fish oils are the most valuable supplement you can take. The subject should take 15g/day for two weeks if deficient, then reduce the dosage to 5g/day indefinitely after that. Fish oils will help burn fat and prevent fat gain. They improve serotonin levels (mood), make it easier to move nutrients in and out of cell walls, reduce joint inflammation, decrease the amount of sugar your body will absorb, improves blood pressure and decrease insulin output when taken with a meal.


There are omega 3 oils in the lite mayo I mix with tuna (2 large tins a day) but that's obviously in smaller quanities than mentioned above. Will look at that.


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## Tatyana

pds999 said:


> Refined sugar and crappy fats??! Where is the refined sugar and crappy fats in my diet?
> 
> Tuna
> 
> Protein shakes
> 
> Baked beans
> 
> Veg
> 
> Apples
> 
> Bananas
> 
> Muesli/All Bran
> 
> Brown rice
> 
> Pasta
> 
> ??!


You also are using mayo stated by yourself in an earlier post.

Your diet is really sub-optimal.

Either you can be right about it or continue to become a fattie.


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## Tatyana

I stand corrected, no healthy fats in your diet.


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## pds999

I appreciate the advice (I really do), but come on. Baked beans and All Bran and I become a fattie??! Next you'll be telling me tuna is high fat and I'll pile on the pounds eating that. Is this a wind up? Yes I use mayo (lite mayo) but only about 50 calories per serving (which I mix with a large can of tuna) and it contains Omega 3 oils.

What would you suggest I change and what would you recommend as staple foods?


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> There are omega 3 oils in the lite mayo I mix with tuna (2 large tins a day) but that's obviously in smaller quanities than mentioned above. Will look at that.


Thats like saying there is iron in guiness

lite mayo is processed shat, omega 3s by that stage will be damaged or ineffective at converting to EPH > DHA

krill oil is your friend

I know its cruel but i chuckled to myself thinking about breakfast check list

banana - check

all bran - check

armidex at £X a day - check

that money could have been spent on using someone to help you or a book to read instead of yet another thing thats not helping you really


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## Tatyana

pds999 said:


> There are *omega 3 oils in the lite mayo* I mix with tuna (2 large tins a day) but that's obviously in smaller quanities than mentioned above. Will look at that.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Every fc-uker and their dog says there is Omega 3 in their products now as a marketing ploy.


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## pds999

Tatyana said:


> I stand corrected, no healthy fats in your diet.


I assume you can supplement things things like glucosamine and Omega 3 through?


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> Thats like saying there is iron in guiness
> 
> lite mayo is processed shat, omega 3s by that stage will be damaged or ineffective at converting to EPH > DHA
> 
> krill oil is your friend
> 
> I know its cruel but i chuckled to myself thinking about breakfast check list
> 
> banana - check
> 
> all bran - check
> 
> armidex at £X a day - check
> 
> that money could have been spent on using someone to help you *or a book to read* instead of yet another thing thats not helping you really


Could you recommend anything?


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> I appreciate the advice (I really do), but come on. Baked beans and All Bran and I become a fattie??! Next you'll be telling me tuna is high fat and I'll pile on the pounds eating that. Is this a wind up? Yes I use mayo (lite mayo) but only about 50 calories per serving (which I mix with a large can of tuna) and it contains Omega 3 oils.
> 
> What would you suggest I change and what would you recommend as staple foods?


baked beans are shyte highly insulinogenic , all bran is shyte

tuna can be high fat and make you slim

body and dietary fat are significantly different

your staples:

red meat, lean cuts

oily fish

whole eggs

oats

yams/sweet spuds

basmati rice (if you get on with it)

fish oils

olive oils

fibrous veg

salad

PWO whey

odd treat/easy calories to grow


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## Tatyana

pds999 said:


> I appreciate the advice (I really do), but come on. Baked beans and All Bran and I become a fattie??! Next you'll be telling me tuna is high fat and I'll pile on the pounds eating that. Is this a wind up? Yes I use mayo (lite mayo) but only about 50 calories per serving (which I mix with a large can of tuna) and it contains Omega 3 oils.
> 
> What would you suggest I change and what would you recommend as staple foods?


You need to read ingredients.

There is so much salt and sugar in both baked beans and all-bran.

A lot of museli's are also loaded full of additives or extra sugar.


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> Could you recommend anything?


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594860882/ref=s9sims_c4_img1-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=0E6X8AB9J4B46CRRA273&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139046191&pf_rd_i=468294

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594860882/ref=s9sims_c4_img1-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=0E6X8AB9J4B46CRRA273&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139046191&pf_rd_i=468294


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## Tatyana

Lost Soul said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594860882/ref=s9sims_c4_img1-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=0E6X8AB9J4B46CRRA273&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139046191&pf_rd_i=468294
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594860882/ref=s9sims_c4_img1-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=0E6X8AB9J4B46CRRA273&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139046191&pf_rd_i=468294


John Berardi is great, another one of my fav fitness/bbing writers.


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594860882/ref=s9sims_c4_img1-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=0E6X8AB9J4B46CRRA273&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139046191&pf_rd_i=468294
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594860882/ref=s9sims_c4_img1-rfc_g1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=0E6X8AB9J4B46CRRA273&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139046191&pf_rd_i=468294


Thanks.


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> Thanks.


Togther, both cheaper than a months supply of arimidex, bananas and all bran


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## pds999

Lost Soul said:


> baked beans are shyte highly insulinogenic , all bran is shyte
> 
> tuna can be high fat and make you slim
> 
> body and dietary fat are significantly different
> 
> your staples:
> 
> red meat, lean cuts
> 
> oily fish
> 
> whole eggs
> 
> oats
> 
> yams/sweet spuds
> 
> basmati rice (if you get on with it)
> 
> fish oils
> 
> olive oils
> 
> fibrous veg
> 
> salad
> 
> PWO whey
> 
> odd treat/easy calories to grow


Again thanks. All Bran I agree is not a bb food but I like the high fibre element. Baked beans I have read many conflicting things about, some nutrionists say they are the single best food you can buy no matter what your dietary aims. Others say what you have.


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> Baked beans I have read many conflicting things about, somne nutrionists say they are the single best food you can buy no matter what your dietary aims. Others say what you have.


I liken that to a mcdonalds burger flipper arguing with a scottish beef producer over which is the best cut of meat, a grass fed cow or a big mac with bacon


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## pds999

LS, what is your view on protein shakes/supplements? At present probably half of my protein intake comes in the form of 2-3 protein shakes per day. Standard whey protein, no frills. Am I losing out by not eating more meat, eggs, etc and by supplementing with shakes instead?

And would it be acceptable to start the day with a protein shake rather than just the All Bran/banana combo I have at present?


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## thestudbeast

The first 20 grams of protein you consume in the morning goes straight to use by the immune system. So to get out of a catabolic state in the morning you need a whole heap of protein.

Now you are right in saying once an ecto always an ecto, you body just gets more fussy about the type of calories you consume. When you where young as an ecto it would burn through anything as you age you need to opt for the lower GI carbs but still plenty of them, add fish oils to each meal to control the insulin response and plenty of protein 6 times a day. For cost purposes you can use shkes twice a day.

Pasta is just sh1t dump it out of the diet along with the all bran and mayo, tuna should be packed in spring water or brine is fine once a day. All processed food should be avoided (eg bran and mayo). The brown rice should be switched to basmati rice.

The 18 pounds you've gained is almost definatly due to a diet too high in sodium, change it around and once the waters gone you'll see what you've actually gained.


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## pds999

thestudbeast said:


> The first 20 grams of protein you consume in the morning goes straight to use by the immune system. So to get out of a catabolic state in the morning you need a whole heap of protein.
> 
> Now you are right in saying once an ecto always an ecto, you body just gets more fussy about the type of calories you consume. When you where young as an ecto it would burn through anything as you age you need to opt for the lower GI carbs but still plenty of them, add fish oils to each meal to control the insulin response and plenty of protein 6 times a day. For cost purposes you can use shkes twice a day.
> 
> Pasta is just sh1t dump it out of the diet along with the all bran and mayo, tuna should be packed in spring water or brine is fine once a day. All processed food should be avoided (eg bran and mayo). The brown rice should be switched to basmati rice.
> 
> The 18 pounds you've gained is almost definatly due to a diet too high in sodium, change it around and once the waters gone you'll see what you've actually gained.


Really useful stuff, thanks.


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## pds999

thestudbeast said:


> The first 20 grams of protein you consume in the morning goes straight to use by the immune system. So to get out of a catabolic state in the morning you need a whole heap of protein.
> 
> Now you are right in saying once an ecto always an ecto, you body just gets more fussy about the type of calories you consume. When you where young as an ecto it would burn through anything as you age you need to opt for the lower GI carbs but still plenty of them, *add fish oils to each meal* to control the insulin response and plenty of protein 6 times a day. For cost purposes you can use shkes twice a day.
> 
> Pasta is just sh1t dump it out of the diet along with the all bran and mayo, tuna should be packed in spring water or brine is fine once a day. All processed food should be avoided (eg bran and mayo). The brown rice should be switched to basmati rice.
> 
> The 18 pounds you've gained is almost definatly due to a diet too high in sodium, change it around and once the waters gone you'll see what you've actually gained.


Can you use a supplement for fish oils, i.e. in pill form? I have some unused Omega 3/Glucosamine tablets hence the question.


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## thestudbeast

pds999 said:


> Can you use a supplement for fish oils, i.e. in pill form? I have some unused Omega 3/Glucosamine tablets hence the question.


Yes fish oils must be kept away from sun light and high heats, so its best to buy from a trusted retailer (not holland and barret  ) as often the retailer let them go bad before you even get them. Supplementing fish oil is the most practical way of getting it in your diet, though mackerel once a day is also great as its quality protein, high in coenzyme Q10 and obviously high in omega 3.


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## Lost Soul

pds999 said:


> LS, *what is your view on protein shakes/supplements?* At present probably half of my protein intake comes in the form of 2-3 protein shakes per day. Standard whey protein, no frills. Am I losing out by not eating more meat, eggs, etc and by supplementing with shakes instead?
> 
> And would it be acceptable to start the day with a protein shake rather than just the All Bran/banana combo I have at present?


I have a massive issue with peoples misconceptions that they are anything different to other protein rich foods

almost as if "as soon as you take these you are at an advantage"

They are there for PWO and convenienence

Eggs are fat better, cannot be argued

And no, you cannot start the day with just protein powder, carbs are a must from oats and a small serving of fruit.



thestudbeast said:


> Yes fish oils must be kept away from sun light and high heats, so its best to buy from a trusted retailer (not holland and barret  )


For fish oils I strongly recommend *bulk supplements direct *

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/BulkSupplementsDirect_Essential-Fatty-Acids_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ20521850QQftidZ2QQtZkm

although I would haggle the price a little with them by nature

Anyway

TBH mate i think we are now answering your questions of why you are not gaining and that numbers mean nothing when basics are not laid down.

You will not grow off protein shake after protein shake

grab the list i have given you and live off it and you will


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## irwit

Some really good info in here, cheers guys. I take fish oils but not as strictly as I obviously should be doing.

Ive always used 40% protein 40% complex carbs 20% good fats as a ratio for my meals but I wouldnt say Im too strict about the ratios. I just use it as a reminder of what my meals should include. Good example was my breakfast shake. FOr ages I had milk, oats and protein powder but using 40 40 20 I added flax seed powder and fish oils and lowered the ammount of milk and replaced with water. This helped keep the shake at the same ammount of calories but included more calories from good fats.


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## Lost Soul

40/40/20 has no flexibility for alterations to activity levels

as per any ratio

Your calorie requirement will go up but protein wont and fat wont in comparison to carbs which distorts the balance of nutrients

work out your protein levels appx and for most that is 200-300g per day

fat at around 70g

carbs high enough to grow, train, perfrom, recover and carry out daily taks

not too high so you are adding junk weight


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## Tatyana

Lost Soul said:


> *I have a massive issue with peoples misconceptions that they are anything different to other protein rich foods*
> 
> *almost as if "as soon as you take these you are at an advantage"*
> 
> They are there for PWO and convenienence
> 
> Eggs are fat better, cannot be argued
> 
> And no, you cannot start the day with just protein powder, carbs are a must from oats and a small serving of fruit.


 :thumb:

This is another issue with protein shakes.

Our bodies are not designed to register liquid calories as well as we register solid food.

I don't have much whey protein in my diet at all.

Whey is a supplement, a very useful supplement, but a supplement to REAL FOOD.


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## Lost Soul

I liken this to people having a puncture on their car and spanking themselves silly over what space saver spare wheel to buy instead of just getting a real wheel to replace it and agonising over whether their new skinny space saver is going to make the car faster


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## irwit

Lost Soul said:


> 40/40/20 has no flexibility for alterations to activity levels


I take it you mean e.g. more carbs before a workout and maybe less towards the end of the day, more protein first thing in the morning, so the ratio would change per meal in an ideal diet ?


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## Lost Soul

No I mean if one day you trek the alps you will not use the same ratios as a day when you sit on a sun lounger in your garden


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## irwit

so would you eat more carbs on gym day compared to a rest day ?

Thing is Ive seen alot of Ricky Hatton interviews and on fight day he'll have a full english. He reckons that you get todays energy from yeterdays food. So day before a fight its lots of pasta and such, but day of fight day he eats what he wants ( to a point of coure)


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## Lost Soul

irwit said:


> so would you eat more carbs on gym day compared to a rest day ?


No, not as a given, I am talking TDEE

The idea is to go into training with glycogen levels as full as possible which goes onto the next point



> Thing is Ive seen alot of Ricky Hatton interviews and on fight day he'll have a full english. He reckons that you get todays energy from yeterdays food. So day before a fight its lots of pasta and such, but day of fight day he eats what he wants ( to a point of coure)


ricky hatton though is not a BBer and at 10 stone has a massive calorie output and will at times be very catabolic

TBH I wouldnt read much into anything on Ricky Hattons food habits as it revolves around

1 off season - Kebabs, fry ups and Pints

2 On season - Only CNP products

No doubt he is a little off the wall in terms of sports nutrition but what we are told are probably snippets of reality and blown out of proportion

Training to fight as a boxer and make weights requires a nutrition protocol so far away from those training for aesthetics its untrue


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## Guest

to the OP you need to seriously have a rethink on your diet..... lots of people ave spelled it out for you mate but you are getting nowhere NEAR enough calories, and your food choices are poor.... yes you are a student but if you can't afford decent food then don't spend money on wasted gear


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## thestudbeast

PompyMan said:


> to the OP you need to seriously have a rethink on your diet..... lots of people ave spelled it out for you mate but you are getting nowhere NEAR enough calories, and your food choices are poor.... yes you are a student but if you can't afford decent food then don't spend money on wasted gear


I think he has mate if you read the whole tread carefully 

any updates?


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