# Cutting and Recomping for May with Need2Slin



## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Hey anyone stopping by.

Basically looking to recomp and shave about 6-7% bodyfat before May.

I will be keeping calories relatively high (200 under maintenance) but using for the first time one of our products Need2Slin which is an insulin mimicker designed ultimately to shuttle carbohydrates directly into the muscle cells and enables/controls insulin response. So basically ideal for maintaining carbs in the diet when cutting so hopefully I can maintain strength and muscle too.










This is my starting point and my first day of use:



Diet for today

06:00 - 30g Whey and 3 Large Eggs Scrambled

08:30 - Home Made Protein Bar 30g Whey, 20g Blended Oats, 5g Raisins, 1tbls fruit syrup, 25g Natural PB (N2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 - 30g Whey, 25g Raw Cashews

12:00 - 5oz Sweet Potato, 1 300g tub low fat cottage cheese (N2Slin 30mins before)

15:00 - Home Made Protein Bar same as above

18:00 - 6oz Chicken Breast, 50g Brown Rice, 1 Cup Broccoli, 1 Cup Spinach (N2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 - 30g Casein Protein 1tbls flaxseed oil

Rest Day Today

Weights Tommorrow


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

need2slin is not a nutrient partitioner- metformin is, as is 'slin.

need2slin has synepherine which is a stimulant, fine for cutting, but nothing to do with nutrient partioning.

as for acetyl-l-carnitine:

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/Chem_Background/ExSumPdf/CARNLIPOSUPP.pdf

is about as official as i could find, but nothing indicates a nutrient partitioning ability. this is a supplement maker basically making up stuff..


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## The Ultimate Warrior (Dec 20, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> need2slin is not a nutrient partitioner- metformin is, as is 'slin.
> 
> need2slin has synepherine which is a stimulant, fine for cutting, but nothing to do with nutrient partioning.
> 
> ...


Absolutly agreed. Was just coming to bad mouth the product, but I think this says it much better than I was going to.


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## Gee-bol (Jul 2, 2009)

seems like a plug of the product if you ask me,get your butt back over to elite fitness you can tell them anything over there,uk-muscle members arnt so easily fooled lol


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## Squirrel (Jun 7, 2009)

Have you wee'd yourself?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

TBH that is more me giving a loose intepretation of the product as apposed a marketing ploy. I will edit to be more accurate as it a very valid point.

Nice research work though 

Also see post 9 providing detail.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

jw390898 said:


> TBH that is more me giving a loose intepretation of the product as apposed a marketing ploy. I will edit to be more accurate as it a very valid point.
> 
> Nice research work though


Nah just had been excited not long beforehand.

Should explain - it is not a boxershort piccy (do wish I had put sinday bests on now). My fat is most evident on thighs and abs so I have uploaded an image showing both and hopefully all weight loss I achieve will be evident in these areas.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Gee-bol said:


> seems like a plug of the product if you ask me,get your butt back over to elite fitness you can tell them anything over there,uk-muscle members arnt so easily fooled lol


Yes and No.

I rep for NTBM and so it is a way to plug the product, but it is also something I would have used now anyway and have not previously so thought I would run a journal for it while I go.

Of course you can ssume it will not be honest if you so chose and not follow or dismiss any positive results but end of the day I have no reason to lie about it - I will get my monthly products irrespective of doing this log and nothing extra for it either, it is just me putting it out there.

p.s not a member on elitefitness, and suspect there would already be a journal over there


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Clear Up of Need2Slin and use:-

Need2slin is a powerful Nutrition and carbohydrate shuttling

compound. It Shut guns carbohydrates and other nutrients To your muscles leaving them no chance of being stored as fat. By way of

increasing insulin sensitivity and carbohydrates/Nutrition up take Need2slin Improves Nutrition pertinence. This means carbs,sugars,fats other nutrients get used or stored in the muscle as energy rather then stared as fat. Moreover need2slin improves the dispelling of carbohydrates that are not used as well.

Now as if all this wasn't enough Needtobuildmuscle knows Our customers want more!! When hundreds of cheap products claim to do the same We at needtobuildmuscle always go the extra mile in our products. Simple we just like being flat out better then the rest.

So what else will one get from need2slin?

Well it does a variety of things that im sure you will find extremely exciting, if your looking for..

Increased LBM!

Rock hard, long lasting PUMPS!

Lower bodyfat!

Increased glycogen uptake!

Increased metabolism!

Improved thyroid function!

Increased Androgen receptor sensitivity!

Improved blood lipids

Increased vascularity

If these traits are desirable to you, then you neednt look any further, N2SLIN has arrived.

N2SLIN is a potent nutrient repartioner, it has a novel ingredient profile, it doesnt use cheaper alternatives, eg(berbarine) So it can be cycled all year round without pancreatic damage.

*WHATS IT FOR?*

*
*

*
It can be used to increase lbm on a lean bulk, to increase strength, lower bodyfat, support good health, and to further gains in the gym.*

*
Used 30 mins before meals, N2SLIN will push carbs into the muscles, giving you a food pump, it does this through 2 channels.*

*
*

*
FIRST.. Gymnema sylvestre, we will just call it G.S, pushes food into the muscle, as it mimicks insulin, insulin is the most anabolic compound around, but VERY DANGEROUS!! Gymnema on the other hand has been proven to lower blood sugar levels, supporting lower cholesterol. And as a powerful insulin mimicker, it force feeds muscles with carbs, as the carbs are forced into muscle cells, the cells absorb..no infact they pull or suck water into their vicinity, along with vital nutrients, Protein and fats..all the building blocks muscles need, but what happens next?*

*
*

*
SECOND.. Banaba leaf, 20 percent corosolic acid, works in a similar way, but with one big difference, it increases androgen receptor sensitivity, wich in turn increases localised IGF-1 in muscle tissue, IGF-1 is one of the most anabolic growth factors, helping tissue recovery, and growth, but also stimulating satelite cells in the muscle to start firing, meaning more muscle fibers!!! Bigger muscles!!*

*
Also the increased androgen sensitivity means this..*

*
Ever wondered why people can be fat with skinny arms? Because they have lots of androgen receptors in their arms, but in the belly lots of estrogen receptors, and these like to hold fat.*

*
Well Banaba stimulates the ones that like to build muscle, and promote fat loss, and combined with Acetyl L-carnatine, they stimulate these receptors, and help change the bodies appearance over time.*

*
*

*
A L-C also helps transport fat, to be used as energy, and not stored as fatty deposits, and where are all the nutrients being transported, to the muscle!!! So your depriving fat cells from being able to hold onto fat, and your feeding muscle cells everything they need to increase in size= less fat, more muscle!!!*

*
*

*
Ok so what then?*

*
Well have you heard of cAMP? Well real insulin, actualy breaks down the enzyme that caused cAMP wich is why you can get fat if you were silly enough to use it, without going to scientific, cAMP is how your body metabolises fats to produce energy to feed muscles, increasing Protein metabolism in the process, so you get a greater metabolic rate, improved glycogen uptake, and increased Protein and fat synthesis. So all the calories you eat build muscle... that is if your training hard enough to stimulate the muscles to grow, And this process is carried out by Synephrine, one of the most powerful OTC cAMP stimulators available, and Coleus forskholi, wich also supports a healthy thyroid, and lowers the stress hormone cortisol, so increasing the anabolic enviroment, ideal for IGF-1 and cAMP to really get working!!*

*
But how long does it work for?*

*
G.S, and Banaba are very fast acting,Na R-Alpha lipoic acid, stays active for up to 6 hours, so think of it as a very powerfull but slow working G.S and Banaba combined, So you get this Anabolic window opened for up to 6 hours, 6 HOURS OF GROWTH!!!*

*
As well as that Na R-Alpha lipoic acid is a very potent anti-oxidant and anti carcinogenic, so with the increased calories, and therfore the increase of toxins, you get a long lasting protection of oxidative stress on the human body.*


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jw390898 said:


> Yes and No.
> 
> I rep for NTBM and so it is a way to plug the product, but it is also something I would have used now anyway and have not previously so thought I would run a journal for it while I go.
> 
> ...


thats an honest answer; truth is, your results will not be positive based on the product as based on the ingredients list, its impossible to act as a repartitioning agent- metformin is the only one that works in this regard, and of course, insulin..


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> thats an honest answer; truth is, *your results will not be positive based on the product as based on the ingredients list, its impossible to act as a repartitioning agent- metformin is the only one that works in this regard, and of course, insulin..*


No offence, but why do you think Need2Slin does not work?

Have you seen the research on gymnema sylvestre, na-rala and banaba?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

JayJo said:


> No offence, but why do you think Need2Slin does not work?
> 
> Have you seen the research on gymnema sylvestre, na-rala and banaba?


put it this way- post up some links to actual research journals which feature:

1. double blind study (i.e neither the researcher, nor the subject know whether they are getting the placebo or actual treatment)

2.the sample size if over 30 subjects- statistically if the sample is under 30, the results are not valid to be extrapolated to the population from which the subjects where drawn).

Those two points are based appropriate research methodology for science/medicine; so post up your links..


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jw390898 said:


> Clear Up of Need2Slin and use:-
> 
> Need2Slin works, not like typical muscle gainers, primarily by it's ability to mimic/boost insulin and by increasing cAMP. Real insulin, actually breaks down the enzyme that caused cAMP which is why you can get fat if you don't know how to use insulin the right way. cAMP is classified as a second messenger, meaning that it exerts it's effects by acting as a manner secondary and in response to a first messenger signaling molecule. When a first messenger signaling molecule binds to a cell surface, the second messenger is activated that increases cAMP production. cAMP signals your body how to produce energy to feed muscles, increasing Protein metabolism in the process, so you get a greater metabolic rate, improved glycogen uptake, increased Protein and fat synthesis and increased testosterone levels. So all the calories you eat are used to build muscle and this in combination with your hard training is enough to create an extremely anabolic environment!
> 
> ...


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> put it this way- post up some links to actual research journals which feature:
> 
> 1. double blind study (i.e neither the researcher, nor the subject know whether they are getting the placebo or actual treatment)
> 
> ...


I don't think no.1 is neccessary when we are talking about people who already have diabetis mellitus. (just my two cents)

Here is what i've found: (Not everything fits your 2 criterias)

Gymnema:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2259216

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2259217

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20812281

http://www.cfp.ca/cgi/content/full/55/6/591

Na-RALA:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657658/?tool=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178700

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21187189

Banaba:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12787964

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16549220

/edit

And a few studies on Forskolin:

http://www.lipofuze.com/research/forslean.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129145/

http://www.drmajeed.com/articles/2002DiterpeneForskolin.pdf


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

ausbuilt said:


> thats an honest answer; truth is, your results will not be positive based on the product as based on the ingredients list, its impossible to act as a repartitioning agent- metformin is the only one that works in this regard, and of course, insulin..


Thanks bud - tbh there is no point in me be anything but honest.

I rep for the company and get paid in products. Therefore if I find them to be no good then it is not worth my time and effort doing it being I still have to pay for shipping and can and have been hit with import duty.

So far what I have tried I have liked, Need2Sleep, HCGenerate, Skeletal Balm and then basics like Whey, Pre and Post Workout drinks etc

I have wanted to run this since I started but it was out of stock last time I placed a rep order as I like what I have seen in the rep forum and was impressed, all be it you can argue it is marketing, with the podcast on superhuman radio with the inventor: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/super-human-radio/id133505292 - and I just figured I would log to motivate myself with it and keep track. I have cut down to my goals before so have an idea (obviously subjective to memory) of how long/what it takes and from this will assess the value of Need2Slin in helping me achieve my goals.

The log will be honest, whether it is good or bad.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 2

197lbs

Abs - 12mm

Thigh - 18mm

Not interested in innacurate bf readings based on cheap skin calipers but figured tracking the skin fold measurements of the two areas I am focussing on progress assessment of will do no harm.


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

ausbuilt said:


> • Increase lean body masshow?? no lift in insulin, T3 or testosterone!* - see forskolin*
> 
> • Lower body fat-what because of the synephrine? see below.. *- see forskolin, synephrine and banaba*
> 
> ...


And i don't think you really know what cAMP does... (again no offence!)



Applied Nutriceuticals Drive Write Up said:


> cAMP is classified as a second messenger, meaning that it exerts its effects by acting in a manner secondary and in response to a first messenger signaling molecule. When a first messenger signaling molecule binds to a cell surface, another secondary (hence "second" messenger) pathway is activated that increases cAMP production. Increased cAMP production is responsible for the activation of protein kinase A, which is an enzyme that has positive effects androgen receptor binding even in the absence of other androgens. cAMP also is a signal for steroidogenesis (testosterone production) in the Leydig cells of the testes, by increasing levels of steroidogenic acute regulatory protein (StAR). Increased StAR production is noteworthy, because it is a Leydig cell cholesterol transfer protein and provides the building blocks for testosterone synthesis.
> 
> StAR activation is necessary for the stimulation of steroidogenic enzymes involved in the transfer of cholesterol to testosterone. By increasing the intermediary between these two processes, a resulting positive shift in anabolism can occur. Therefore, high cAMP levels also equate to high levels of luteinizing hormone (the hormone responsible for mediating endogenous spermatogenesis), and when cAMP levels are elevated, it serves as an intermediate in the signaling cascade that ranges from luteinizing hormone (LH) binding to testosterone production. By increasing the intermediate between these two processes, a resulting increase in anabolism and protein synthesis can occur. Numerous other studies have shown parallels between increased cAMP levels and increased anabolism, and a ground-breaking 2005 study in The Journal of Obesity Research found that obese men taking 250 mg of 10% forskolin a day for 12 weeks experienced an averaged 33% increase in free testosterone levels, averaged a 10 lbs. fat loss per person and increased lean mass an average of 8 lbs! A 2001 study by Badmaev also yielded similar results.


*BTW. I want to say that jw390899 has a good reputation on the forums and is known for his honesty. If he thinks the product is sh*t he will definitely say it and has to say it!*


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

JayJo said:


> And i don't think you really know what cAMP does... (again no offence!)
> 
> *BTW. I want to say that jw390899 has a good reputation on the forums and is known for his honesty. If he thinks the product is sh*t he will definitely say it and has to say it!*


 well, a man may be honest, and I cast no aspersions on his character; however an honestly held belief based on incorrect information is still incorrect.

I keep saying it- don't tell me to "look" at a herb, say forskolin:

well, lets look, since you, like most supplement company people seem reluctant to actually paste up links to actual science...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forskolin

OK and what does this say? Mainly:

To date, there have been more than *two clinical studies* examining the effectiveness of forskolin as a weight loss aid. *Only one has been subject to peer-review and published in a medical journal*. This clinical study also observed forskolin's role in significantly increasing lean mass, bone mass, and testosterone in the subjects involved.[4] This research has led to companies marketing forskolin as a bodybuilding supplement.

The published MEDICAL study is here:

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v13/n8/full/oby2005162a.html

in full, for free (BY THE WAY- why couldn't you provide that link???)

when it comes to testosterone:

Both groups significantly increased LBM over the course of the study (p < 0.05); however, there was no significant difference (p = 0.097) between the forskolin group Both groups significantly increased LBM over the course of the study (p < 0.05); however, there was no significant difference (p = 0.097) between the forskolin group (3.71 4.07 kg increase) and the placebo group (1.57 2.56 kg increase; Table 1).

where the difference was measured, it was becuase the forskolin group had a higher baseline to start with...

the study does seem to indicate fat loss, and the authors note that:

"..Therefore, the change in fat mass as shown by the forskolin group (-4.52 5.74 kg) *could* be induced by direct free fatty acid release within adipose tissue through cAMP accumulation and directly induce fat loss."

Please note the authors use the word COULD as they do not know, and cannot explain the mechanism.

So far the only thing the ONE study supports is some fat loss... the increase in test IS NOT supported..

so your product is making many claims that are NOT supported...

but PLEASE if you find any studies as well carried out as the one I posted (and I'm unbiased, as the study I posted does at least support your fat loss claims) then please do....

I don't think its adequate as a response to say "see herb X".. but show WHY herb X is proven to work..

BTW, ONE study is hardly overwhelming proof, but its better than nothing...

You still claim forskolin:

increases test (see above, it doesn't)

boosts thryoid- not even noted in the study..

boosts energy- cAMP does not boost energy...


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

I don't think you've seen my post from site 1.

Here is also a good read on forskolin.

http://www.vrp.com/neuroendocrine-support/forskolin-and-camp-wide-ranging-benefits-from-ayurvedic-herb



JayJo said:


> I don't think no.1 is neccessary when we are talking about people who already have diabetis mellitus. (just my two cents)
> 
> Here is what i've found: (Not everything fits your 2 criterias)
> 
> ...


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Wow I never knew this was going to prove such a hot topic!

I will sit back and let the battle of science take place 

Bottomline I am goig to run it anyway and see if it does assist me in reaching my goals - if it does this by the ingridients used then I am happy regardless of whether one or another herb has proven scientific studies backing it with multiple test subjects.

I am in it for the ride................................

If it is good then I shall say it is good, and if it is bad I will not promote it.

The CEO of NTMB has in place with Predator (who distribute the products in the UK) a 100% money back guarantee for anyone not satisfied which is a pretty confident claim. I have been on the team for 3 months and am working my way through the product line as I would not back a product I have not tried and so far so good and I expect more of the same.


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## maccer (Jul 11, 2007)

I think some of the ingredients are good supplements individually but the fact is there is nothing new here but the claims are ludicrous! Just absolute drivel - take need2slin and have all the benefits of AAS, T3, Slin in one capsule! With the supplements that have been around for years already! Genius!

On another note : Anyone wants my new product call macrip I am selling them for a fiver each and they make you foooking massive and ripped active ingredient is caffeine and sugar yeah man :lol: :thumb:


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## r_richson (Dec 22, 2007)

sounds like a miricle product. If you want results of slin why not use slin


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

maccer said:


> I think some of the ingredients are good supplements individually but the fact is there is nothing new here but the claims are ludicrous! Just absolute drivel - take need2slin and have all the benefits of AAS, T3, Slin in one capsule! With the supplements that have been around for years already! Genius!
> 
> On another note : Anyone wants my new product call macrip I am selling them for a fiver each and they make you foooking massive and ripped active ingredient is caffeine and sugar yeah man :lol: :thumb:


Well as we discussed in another post till you try........

In the mean time i am open minded and happy to be running it. i am not being petty when i say this because i am for people hqving opinion (though they would hold more validity with even 2nd user accounts) but if you wish to debate the product do so outside of my journal bud as im running this as a legit log.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

r_richson said:


> sounds like a miricle product. If you want results of slin why not use slin


One very good reason, i get this free ;-)

I was up for the role as a rep when approached becase it seemed a great opp to get my supps and try things that ordinarily i might not have money to do so in exchange for posting on forums i did already.

I am working through the rqnge while grabbing my basics like protein etc and seeing first hand what they are about.

As i said before so far so good with everything and i am happy to promote and rate need2sleep hcgenerate and skeletal balm having tried them all and had positive results.

IF this does nothing for me you will not see me pushing it anywhere and if i came across more i did not like i would resign, if the products are sh1t then i wont be repping as products is what i get from it so no point.

As i posted before customers get a 100% money back guarantee so there is decent amount of confidence behind it and would be dealt with by predator nutrition a well established and leading supp distributor.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 3

Well I trained last night and am kidding myself if I ignore there was a dip in strength.

On the plus side for all those interested in how good Need2Slin is then I will be testing it even more as I am going to increase calories a fraction and possibly squueze an extra cardio session into the week to try and preserve more muscle and strength. Hopefully as Slin gets to work I will start undergoing a more positive body comp anyhow.

So the plan now is 2600-2700 calories non weight days and 2800-2900 on training days.

Today will be 30 mins table tennis lunch time (we have a table at work [  ]) and 20 minutes high intensity on the bike tonight.

Diet

06:00 Protein Shake and 4 Medium Eggs Scrambled (just eggs pan sprayed 1-cal olive oil spray)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1x Need2Slin 30 minutes before)

10:00 Protein Shake 30g Raw Cashews

12:00 6oz Sweet Potato, 1 can tuna in spring water, 1.5 tblsp Light Mayo (2x Need2Slin before)

15:00 Home Made Protein Bar, Low Carb 12g

18:00 5oz Chicken Breast in Reggae Reggae, 1 Cup Spinnach, 1 Cup Broccoli (1x Need2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 15g Whey, 20g Casein, .5 tblsp Flaxseed Oil (2xNeed2Sleep)

22:00 Bed

Total Calories 2618, Protein 284g, Carbs 144g, Fat 105g


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

it does not surprise me that a supplement is being touted as the next big thing, the claims from some supplement companies are just sad, as they rely on the naivety of new guys to the game to pay there wages......the unfortunate thing happens when they get challenged by knowledgeable guys on sites like these.

as for studies and relevance.......this is aimed at anyone.....post a study carried out on young males who follow a bodybuilding lifestyle whilst using this product or the exact combination of the included contents....this will prove or disprove your claims if not don't make them....simples


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

jw390898 said:


> One very good reason, i get this free ;-)


slin wouldn't exactly break the bank lol


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Milner575

I do not wear the trousers and and given limited allowance in our house for such things. All part of being married with children and having a wife that is a blackbelt.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

This is getting silly now guys.

If you do not rate it or anything else NTBM do not buy it/them - that is your perogative to do so. I have not come on here saying I have a wonder supp or magic pill.

I was looking to have me a little recomp and thought I would log it as a means to track it for myself and it coincided with me receiving my Need2Slin supp so with huge regret now I posted the title referencing I was looking to do so using it. It was not set out as a direct marketing drive, if it was then I would have gone for a higher profile section of the board for supp consumers to get noticed like the supp section etc. I would change the name of the journal if it was worth it but after two pages of debate I see little point.

I am not going to argue with any of you that say I will see jack sh1t because I do not know you are wrong, I intend to run it and find out though. After a few weeks I will know if my body composition is better on account of the addition of this supp to my current regime.

You will not see post after post pushing it, merely a reference to the time it is taken in my diet posts - so come on please can I run my journal now and I will learn for myself first hand.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i agree, keep the journal going and we will make sure there is no more slating and promoting of this product by others.....

one thing though, if you post on a forum you should expect debate...


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> i agree, keep the journal going and we will make sure there is no more slating and promoting of this product by others.....
> 
> one thing though, if you post on a forum you should expect debate...


Agreed, but I felt after 2 pages it felt that this had already occured.

I suspect if I do rate the product it will be discredited anyway but it is not as important to me as looking to hit my targets - if this helps then I will say so and let people tear apart why it could not have done or does not. If it makes jack sh1t difference for me then I will not encourage anyone to use it and will continue working through the product line and if I find one other product that does nothing for me then I will no longer associate myself with NTBM as there would be nothing in it for me.

Thanks for the post.

I still welcome all those who have posted to date to continue to do so if they feel they have advice or tips in respect to picking me up on my diet or such - I don't take any of the NTBM criticism personally and respect there are knowledgeable guys on here that are passionate about lifting.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Keep the journal mate, the proof will be in the pudding as they say.

Any updates?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Jim78 said:


> Keep the journal mate, the proof will be in the pudding as they say.
> 
> Any updates?


thanks bud

Nah bit early - day 3 today.

I will wait till wednesday and weigh and take skin measurements again, I will do it every 3-4 days. Mostly for calorie requirement assessment as apposed expecting dramatic results.

I will be eating a little more then I originally intended, at least at first as where I started cutting a couple of weeks ago I have noticed a loss in strength and might have just dropped calories a little more then I should. I will instead look to eat closer to maintenance and prioiritise the cardio for the fat loss instead.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 5 (Morning of)

Weight 197lbs ( +-0)

Ab Skin Fold (+-0)

Thigh Skin Fold (+-0)

Well status Quo in terms of everything after 4 days. I anticipate around the 2 week mark to start seeing something, no real science on this one just what tends to be the case with other logs.

Obviously I could force the weight loss issue by reducing calories etc but I want to test the supplement and ideally lose the bare minimum muscle and strength.

Far from ideal but with work and family committments for the next 2-3 weeks I am going to have to reduce my weight training to 2 evenings, I can still get away with 2-3 cardio sessions luckily and get to play about half hour table tennis most days which has become quite competitive so of benefit to weight loss. I am therefore basically training full body but like a push / pull full body. Squat, Bench, Press, Tri Work and then SLDL, Rows, Lat Bar, Shrugs, Curls. Hopefully things will ease up and let me get back to normal ASAP.

I am going to run around the 2400-2500 calorie mark on non weight days and 2600-2700 on the two training days, with the majority of the extra calories coming from post workout nutrition which will also see a higher carb percentage for those days.

Diet Today

05:30 Protein Shake, 4 Medium Eggs Scrambled 1-cal EVOO cooking spray. Multi-Vit.

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar, P32g - C21g - F16g - 362cals (1x N2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake, 25g Raw Cashews

12:00 6oz Sweet Potato, 300g Low Fat Cottage Cheese (1xN2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 MRP Drink, P52g, C14g, F6g - 342cals

18:00 5oz Chicken Breast in Peri-Peri Sauce, 150g Roasted Veg in EVOO (1xN2Slin 30 mins before) Cod Liver Caps

21:00 15g Whey 30g Casein Protein (2x N2Sleep)

Calories 2371, Protein-252g, Carb-129g, Fat94g

Rest Day - Watch the Football Tonight, possibly if I am allowed to watch it in the living room I could get the bike out and do some cardio - we will see if I get permission.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> it does not surprise me that a supplement is being touted as the next big thing, the claims from some supplement companies are just sad, as they rely on the naivety of new guys to the game to pay there wages......the unfortunate thing happens when they get challenged by knowledgeable guys on sites like these.
> 
> true, and it takes no knowledge to see the DISCLAIMER on the website that states:
> 
> ...


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

ausbuilt

The reason for this quote today is.............?

Would you like me to save you time and effort and every other day post one of the previous quotes on your behalf?

Although admirable that you have taken on the responsibility of policing morality in the supplement industry (I presume you spend as much time in other manufacturer's faces as unless I am mistaken all supplements have the same warning that the statement has not been evaluated or endorsed etc) can you either be constructive towards the journal aspect of the thread and give opinion input etc on diet, training and so on or let things be.

It was agreed a few posts back to let me run the journal I believe.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 6

Well despite the scales and skin caliper readings yesterday my trousers feel a little looser round the thighs since last week, washed over the weekend I hasten to add!

Not reading anything into it though as I am looking for signs so accept an apparel based plaecebo effect. I am sure if it is the case then come the weekend when I weigh in and pinch my skin again there will be something to show.

Training tonight, looking forward to it - hate having to rectrict workout frequency like I am at the moment but till I get the couple of later evenings at work out the way I have to lump it as I still need to compromise with family life and spend some 1-2 evenings with her having put kids to bed.

Todays Diet - Slightly higher caloires and carbs being a training day.

06:00 Protein Shake, 4 Eggs Scrambled (MultiVit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (30 mins before 1x Need2Slin)

10:00 Protein Shake, 25g Cashews

12:00 7oz Sweet Potato, 1x300g tub Low Fat Cottage Cheese (2xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 MRP Low Carb (15g)

18:00 6oz Salmon Fillet, Green Beans, Asparagus, Approx 3oz sauted(spelling!?) potatoes (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

19:15 Preworkout Drink

20:30 Muscle Replinisher Post Workout Drink

21:15 15g Whey 30g Casein Protein 1tbls Flaxseed Oil

Calories 2796, Protein 304g, Carbs 186g, Fat 90g


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

jw390898 said:


> ausbuilt
> 
> The reason for this quote today is.............?
> 
> ...


I'm currently visiting Sydney, so I read these forums when you're asleep; we're out of sync  in sooooooo many ways ;-)

As for the supplement industry.. not my sole responsibility, but when I see products making promises they can't keep, I can't help but point out the obvious... especially when there are "viral" marketing techniques involved.... after all if you put up on a public forum, be prepared to support your views with facts 

I think when I retire I may may make it my pet hobby horse, but for now, its only when the obvious jumps up in front of me....


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 7

06:00 Protein Shake, 4 Eggs Scrambled (MultiVit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (30 mins before 1x Need2Slin)

10:00 Protein Shake, 25g Cashews

12:00 5.5oz Sweet Potato, 1xtin waterpacked Tuna, 1.5 tlbsp Low Cal Mayo (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 (Homa Made Protein Bar Low Carb 15g (30 mins before 1x Need 2Slin)

16:30 Protein Shake

18:00 5oz Chicken Breast with Spices, 2 cup Broccoli, 1 Cup Spinnach,(1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 15g Whey 30g Casein Protein 300ml Unsweetened Soya Milk

Calories 2461, Protein 260g, Carbs 139g, Fat 98g

Trained last night - ok session, I am not getting on with this 2x a week training and programme I have had to design to accomadate schedules at the minute.

Had a friendly word (beg) to the mrs and am going to get back to 3x a week training from sunday 

Jeans I put on this morning definately seem to have a bit more space in them then when I wore them start of last week.

Going to look to weigh in and pinch myself tommorrow or sunday to see if there is any stat based evidence for the optimism.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Ausbuilt I understand what your saying about the disclaimer but please keep it off this journal, this member is trying to evaluate this product himself at least give him that opportunity, if you feel so strongly about the claims then start a new thread as I would contribute to that myself.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 9

Weight 198lbs (+1)

Abs - 12mm (0)

Thigh - 16mm (-2)

Well bit suprised by the readings taken this morning. Weight being up is odd but from logs of Need2Slin there would seem to be a few people suffer bloat initially from it, though I am not overly aware perhaps there is a little water retention which might account for this as I do not believe at all it is muscle, lbm increase.

My thigh skin folds were down which I was pleased and expected on the basis that I had noticed a little more looseness in my jeans and trousers BUT my stomach had not decreased at all - if anything it had increased. I take five readings and go with the average and 3 readings gave me 12 and 1 13 and another 14 - basically definately no decrease which is ultimately what I am tracking not the numbers theirselves. In the past I would have always expected to lose from my abodominal region before legs, whether I am just getting older and therefore my body and fat storage is changing.........will see what readings I get in a few days on wednesday.

Diet has been consistent and clean.

Today willl be a little irregular because timings of food and things are determined by circmustances. Making lasagne for the family later so will make my own seperate lower carb/less pasta sheets and minimal white sauce version and just a sprinkling of cheese and side salad as apposed garlic bread etc - to be fair most people have a weekly cheat meal etc - I can neve do this as I feel too bad afterwards and hate myself for having had it - this is about as close as it gets, lean steak mince and two pasta sauces.

I am hoping I can get the meal to be as late in the day as possible and use 3 Need2Slin beforehand based on 70-90g carb meal and it be pre workout for tonight see if I notice any sort of pump from increased glycogen - if possible avoid a pre workout drink but having spent 8 hours at A&E with my little boy yesterday who had been ill most the week and broke into a rash (only virul fortunately but needed to have him checked for meningitis) I am quite tired and will prob need the pick me up.

Hoping to slip back into 3x a week training again and cardio two other evenings, along with a bit of lunch time table tennis should be sufficent on maintenance calories to see some body fat reductions.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Good luck with this mate but you may as well eat vitamin c tablets, this will not do what it says on the tin... if you do get results its down to your training, im afraid to say you have simply fell for a well structured marketing campaign, i see it all the time as its the industry im in myself


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 10

06:00 Protein Shake, 3 Whole Eggs 1 Egg White scrambled (MultiVit and Vit C)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (Need2Slin 30 mins Before)

10:00 Protein Shake, 25g Raw Cashews

12:00 7oz Sweet Potato, 170g Prawns 1.5 tlbsp Light Mayo, Lettuce Cucumber and Cherry Toms, (2xNeed2Slin 30 mins Before)

15:00 MRP Low Carb

18:00 6oz Chicken Breast, 2 Cups Broccoli, 1 Cup sprouts (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

20:00 20-30 mins on exercise bike

21:00 15g Whey, 15g Casein in 200ml Unsweetended Soya (2xNeed2Sleep)

22:00 Bed

Calories 2,411, Protein 256g, Carbs 142g, Fat 94g

Trained last night - really enjoyed it. I dropped weight a little on all movements (I guess a deload) and put 100% focus into form and looked to reduce rest periods a little between sets. Made a nice change of pace, I will maintain the approach for a little while and try to work weights back up while doing so.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 11

Not going to list todays schedule as it is basically identical to yesterday in food - no bike though tonight I will be watching the football.

Weights tommorrow 

Definately leaning - hoping the skin caliper measurements tommorrow reflect this but I am definately aware of looser trousers around the legs - I'm sure even since yesterday - wearing the same today.

With this in mind irrespective of scales and skin measurements tommorrow I will maintain current training and calorie plan till the weekend when I will take readings again.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Weight 197lbs (0+/-)

Abs 12mm (0+/-)

Thighs 16mm (-2)

Training Day

06:00 Protein Shake, 3 Whole Medium Eggs Scrambled (MultiVitamin)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 min before)

10:00 Protein Shake, 25g Cashews

12:00 5oz Sweet Potato, 1 tin Tuna in Water, 1.5 tbls Light Mayo (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins Before)

14:30 Low Carb MRP

17:45 Plaice in Light Breadcrumb Coating, Peas (2xNeed2Slin 30 mins Before)

19:00 Pre-Workout Drink

20:15 Replinsher Post Workout Drink

21:15 15g Whey 30g Milk Protein in 200ml Soya Unsweetened Milk

Calories 2721, Protein 293g, Carbs 179g, Fat 91g

Still very odd. I visually appear leaner (could of course be in my head) but cannot ignore there has been weight loss occur in some way as every pair of jeans/trousers etc are coming up a little more generously on space now.

I still read back over logs of Slin and see many people talk about 2-3 weeks so I am going to continue running the same calories/training etc and see where this takes me. I have two tubs to run (each tub depending on how it is taken will last about a month) so I will use this first tub up with no alterations then second tub really put things into overdrive by stepping up cardio and calorie reductions in order to achieve my goals, but I will give a half way review and summary then a final after 6-8 weeks of use.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

Great read.

I'll be keeping an eye on this as after my cycle/pct, I'll be looking to recomp/cut and so this will be a good guide as I had my eye on need2slin.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> Great read.
> 
> I'll be keeping an eye on this as after my cycle/pct, I'll be looking to recomp/cut and so this will be a good guide as I had my eye on need2slin.


Well at the mo I cannot quite work it out, clothes are a little losser where they had become tighter in a bad way and I am sure I am leaner when looking in the mirror but scale weight has remained the same and skin fold measurements have not dipped dramatically - I think this third week I am about to start will give me a good guide as to what is going on as skin fold measurements on the belly must alter by the end of week 3 if my observations are correct.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 13

Decent training session last night and good sleep so feeling pretty good about things this morning - though feel very hungry today. Anybody bothering to read this will realise I eat pretty much the same food everyday so not sure why the hunger today!

Todays Diet

06:00 Protein Shake, 3 Medium Eggs Scrambled with a cup of spinnach tossed in (Multivit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (30g Carbs) 1x Need2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake, 25 Cashews

12:00 Subway 6" Chicken Breast Light Mayo on Honey Oat, Protein Shake (got to be out the office for a bit) (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Home Made Protein Bar (10g Carbs)

18:00 6oz Chicken Breast in Reggae Reggae Marinade, Broccolli and Spinnach (1xNeed2Slin 30mins before)

21:00 15g Whey, 15g milk protein in 200ml Soya unsweetened milk (2xNeed2Sleep)

Calories 2350, protein 263g, carbs 131g, fat 94g


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

jw390898 said:


> Well at the mo I cannot quite work it out, clothes are a little losser where they had become tighter in a bad way and I am sure I am leaner when looking in the mirror but scale weight has remained the same and skin fold measurements have not dipped dramatically - I think this third week I am about to start will give me a good guide as to what is going on as skin fold measurements on the belly must alter by the end of week 3 if my observations are correct.


i find the mirrors can be so motivating and demoralising depending on the lighting. scales usually reaffirms my suspicions.

fingers crossed again for the 3rd week. unfortunately, without amazing genetics, these things are usually slow processes.

NB: how is life on such low carbs?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> i find the mirrors can be so motivating and demoralising depending on the lighting. scales usually reaffirms my suspicions.
> 
> fingers crossed again for the 3rd week. unfortunately, without amazing genetics, these things are usually slow processes.
> 
> NB: how is life on such low carbs?


I know what you mean about mirrors. I would not read into this normally either as your mind plays tricks one day you look big another fat etc

For me it is not that low carbs, i have often gone no carbs for spells and have no issue adjusting and never hit any sort of wall. I believe i am one of hose people that is suited to low carb eating. The attraction with need2slin was trying to cut hqving been a bit to indulgent with carbs ever since a cycle back in september and goigng agqinst all my own rules and nit really tracking weight.

Figured if there was a supp to enable me to still eat moderate carbs and not have to be akward at home with my diet or anti social because i can only eqt meat and fish whe out etc i would give it a whirl.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 14

Did 20 minutes pretty decent intensity on the bike last night watching Broadwalk Empire (still not sure if I like or not).

Tonight I am hoping to get some weights lifted, should be good just got some work need to be done before I can get away!

Feeling lazy today so will list calories as apposed whole diet - think you guys have sussed I eat more or less the same everyday by now.

Calories 2372 Protein 294.2g Carbs 162.9g Fat 74.7g


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

What's your fav source of fats?

I'm thinking of switching up to a lower carb, higher fat diet. See how I respond.

And I'm also similar regarding daily food. breaky and lunches are similar, and this allows me to have fun with dinner.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Salmon, nuts especially cashews, nat peanut butter, flaxseed oil, evoo, lean beef, anchovies, olives, jerky, unsweetened soya milk, eggs, mackerel. That is the bulk of my fats besides the bits i pick up from whey, oats etc


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

thanks.


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

jw390898 said:


> Salmon, nuts especially cashews, nat peanut butter, flaxseed oil, evoo, lean beef, anchovies, olives, jerky, unsweetened soya milk, eggs, mackerel. That is the bulk of my fats besides the bits i pick up from whey, oats etc


Other great sources for fats are almonds, almond butter, power butter or coconut oil.

BTW. Have you tried the Power Butter from our store? It has an amazing profile for peanut butter!


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

JayJo said:


> Other great sources for fats are almonds, almond butter, power butter or coconut oil.
> 
> BTW. Have you tried the Power Butter from our store? It has an amazing profile for peanut butter!


power butter? sounds like an intraworkout lotion.

but seriously, how's the scales/mirror treating you OP?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 17

Weight 194lbs (-3)

My little boy trod on my calipers and has busted them - no skin measurements, I will check out what I can get to replace later :-(

Strength seems to be holding at the minute, no gains but no loss which is my primary concern right now.

Calories Today 2,312 Protein 273g Carbs 107.8g Fat 89.8g

I am going to go for 20-25 mins on the bike fast paced tonight and a nice early night.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 18

25 minutes on the bike last night watching a bit more Broadwalk Empire.

I was taking a look on ebay and googling yesterday for some replacement calipers and am probably going to have to put up with just some cheap £6 Accumeasure plastic things - I am not convinced the digital ones would be any more accurate, I am not bothered about correctly analyzing my actual bodyfat just monitoring trends of weight gain/loss and wonder if cheap digital soultions would fluctuate with their readings more then manual ones.

Being I have not done so for a few days todays diet, slightly higher calories and carbs being a training day, is:-

06:00 Protein Shake, 3 Eggs Scrambled (MultiVit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (30g Carbs) (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Home made beef burger, lean steak mince - onion - egg white - black pepper - little garlic - italian seasoning, 2 slices Nimble Wholemeal (1xNeed2Slin 30mins before)

15:00 Home Made Low Carb protein Bar (10g Carbs)

18:00 Breaded Plaice, Peas (2x Need2Slin 30mins before)

19:00 Pre Workout Drink

20:00 Post Workout Drink

21:00 15g Whey 25g Milk Protein, 300ml unsweetened soya (2x Need2Sleep)

Calories 2529, Protein 286.4g, Carbs 154.5g, Fat 92g


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 19

194.5lbs (-2.5lbs)

Skin calipers on route!

I cannot believe how my scale weight is holding while my jeans are getting looser when running on an average daily calorie defecit of 400 calories, before exercise - It can only be an indication of a positive body composition change!

Exchanging posts with the creator of the supp Professor Filimanov it would seem week 3 on is where the benefits really come to the fore so pretty optimistic for the coming weeks with a 2nd pot to be run 

Training last night was good.

Increased reps on deads and inline presses and held on everything else despite the calorie restrictions - I just hoped to not lose strength during this cutting process so anything above and beyond this is a real, real bonus!

Calories today will be a little lower:

Calories 2,043 - Protein 217.2g, Carbs 89.4g, Fat 91.6g


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 20

Another pair of trousers this morning not worn for a while and are definately more loose!

It is really strange as scale weight is not doing anything dramatic and I am not convinced I can see that much difference either. Gutted my replacement calipers never showed yesterday as I need to get on this.

I would be worried if my strength had not been holding out or improving last couple of workouts, hopefully more of the same tonight!

Calories 2,306 Protein 263.6g, Carbs 157.7g, Fat 75.1g

06:00 Protein, 3 Eggs scrambled. (Multi Vit)

08:30 Home Made 30g carb protein bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 6oz Sweet Potato, 1 tub 300g Cottage Cheese Low. (1x Need2Slin 30 ins before)

15:00 Home Made 10g Carb Protein Bar

18:00 Home Made Turkey Mince Burger with 2 slices Nimble Wholemeal and 1tbls Light Mayo (1x Need2Slin 30mins before)

19:15 Attack Pre Workout

20:30 Onslaught Post Workout Drink

21:15 15g Whey, 20g Milk Protein 300ml Soya


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

whats attack and onslaught?

But your weight is still down a few lbs which is good, and strength is holding so something must be working.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> whats attack and onslaught?
> 
> But your weight is still down a few lbs which is good, and strength is holding so something must be working.


It must be - but I tend to work black and white and while I cannot see it I struggle to believe it if that makes sens, but then I guess seeing and feeling looser clothes is visual evidence..........I am delighted at not losing strength though as I am eating a lot less then I have been for months where I had allowed originally a bulk to become a little lacking in discipline as all was going well and before I knew it realised I had gotten too soft 

Attack is a Pre workout supp - I like it as it is a capsule product which means one less bulky container to find a cupboard for - the mrs is forever monaing at me for this! When you have two young kids that no matter what is done wake on average between 5am and 6am and you leave for work at half six everyday there is many an evening when training that I would struggle to get off the couch not alone pick up a bar without this!

Onslaught is a post workout formula - I like it as it is a lower carb profile then the standard post workout products, is rich in aminos, hmb, creatine, glutamine all in as you would expect but it is a very easy drink most post workouts to me have a texture or taste based around the carb source used but this does not smack of malto every sip taken.

I appreciate you asking because this is perfect timing as both are just about to be launched in the UK with Predator Nutrition, hence my detailed answers! - thanks for the marketing help bud


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

^thanks, i'll keep my eye on Attack, especially with PCT coming soon, I'm going to need that extra push. My Whiteflood has only a few servings left, and so will need something with added punch!

and I am impressed you get up so early, and able to train so late. My schedule is unpredictable, which I like as I get the odd day (like today) to refuel.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 21

193.5lbs (-4.5lbs)

Abs 10mm (-2mm)

Thigh 16mm( -2mm)

I can definately tell the weight loss now - I will give it till next week 28-30 days and retake piccies see if it shows to others.

Trained last night. Have to say it felt a struggle, managed to preserve all lifts but it felt like that was what I was doing - hanging onto strength. I was exhausted though having had a terrible night sleep and rubbish day at work. I also made the mistake of trying a sample of a different pre-workout which did not having anything like the pick me up I normally benefit from so there may well be contributing factors so I will not get too down on this front and wait to see how next session on sunday evening goes.

20 mins on the bike tonight.

Calories 2260, protein 251.6g, carbs 112.6g, fat 94.4g


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

^ great improvements

hopefully after a good sleep you'll be back to full focus/energy


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 21

Well I looked in the mirror this morning with just my old jogging/pyjama bottoms on and saw a noticeable difference in my mid section. Really chuffed as although I knew I was achieving I was not as aware as I would have thought given the added room in my trousers etc

I will weigh and measure tommorrow morning and all things being well try to get a fresh snap up (and I shall be censoring my boxers this time!) and try to remember during the day (as I never buy one) to grab a paper to give substance to the dates and prove it is all above board.

Well today I will be having a slight cheat meal tonight, by my standards, as I will be eating either Nandos or Harvester with the kids. However, we are still talking wither double chicken breast burger and rice or harvester half spit roast chicken, eat half my chips and go to town on salad so not exactly the most naughty of boys. Will be guzzling 2 Need2Slin for the Harvester and 3 if eating at Nandos - never had a meal higher then about 60g since running this and with the Nandos one taking me around 100g it is 3 caps time - be good opportunity to see what sort of muscle cell fullness this gives as running it 1x3caps a day with lower carb diet as I have mainly controls insulin levels throughout the day but this will really test the nutrient shuttling aspect of the supplement.

Well busy family day ahead now - will try and make it a proper update tommorrow with pic, weigh in and skin caliper measurements -

also a weight day tommorrow so anxious to use my regular Attack Pre Workout supplement to ensure maximum training boost and see if I can ensure all strength is still there!


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## Zangief (Aug 5, 2010)

Placebo effects maybe?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

MrMike said:


> Placebo effects maybe?


Cant be bud. When scale weight has decreased, skin fold measurements and looser jeans i have to have lost fat.

I will update pics asap hopefully sunday.

The only question is how much leaning can be attributed to slin, but as an ectomorph any sort of reduced calories sees muscle fall off and strength plummet which touch wood does not appear to be the case.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 22

I took before bed last night - had to use camera phone as the main camera was flat so a little grainy with the flash.

I am hoping people can see it as having pigged out earlier that day I was bloated by I know there is definately loss of wobbly stuff round the belly and my legs are slimmer based on fit of clothes. Hey nothing incredible to look at but it has only been 3 weeks on just under maintenance calories so in context I am quite pleased. I will slowly be upping the effort now and dropping calories a little more - about 100 a day less for this week.

Ahh a thought - the boxers although different colours are the same from a 3-pack 

Original from just inder 3 weeks ago first - without boxer cencorship


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

my camera phone makes me look very pink, and not at all flattering/motivational. no longer use it (its a wildfire)


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Just realised the pictures did not go in on here - trouble with trying to do it on my phone I will go back and edit.

Day 24 (Need2Slin) Half Way review will be done on day 30-31

Weight 194lbs (-3.5)

Abs 10mm (-2mm)

Thigh 15mm (-3mm)

I really cannot believe how little my scale weight is moving! The whole time skin fold measurement go the right way and training does not fall apart I can only believe that the body composition is switching nicely.

I was a bit busy to update monday so a double today.

Training Sunday night was good - felt comfortable throughtout the session and even added 5lbs to stiff Dead last set.

Training tonight will play a part here but it makes me wonder if the extra day rest was of benefit here and to train with 2 days break in between as apposed 1 and either have the first rest day as complete rest and just a bit of table tennis cardio lunch time then hit the bike on day off 2.

I will train again tonight though and see where my energy and performance seems to be at as I have had a sound sleep and not a lot going on out of the morn so far today.

With the reduced calories the extra day recovery might just benefit me.

Monday was reduced calories - the figures are from memory as I did not record them.

Calories 2050 Protein 270g Carbs 95g Fat 70g

I was off yesterday so picked my little girl up from school - about 15 minute walk and uphill there so jogged pushing the little man in a pushchair for a bit of cardio and performed 20 minutes steady fast pace on the bike in the evening.

I did feel yesterday like I had lowered the calories for the first time, do not know if it was because I was sat in at home as you can often feel like picking or eating all the time and so it was on my mind more?

Maintained discipline though and rode through it, even overcoming the nearly nodding off on the sofa before getting the bike out.

Todays Diet

06:00 3 Large Egg, 1/2 Cup Sinnach, 20g Mushroom Omellette (1xMultiVit)

09:00 Protein Bar Home Made (1x Need2Slin 30mins before)

12:00 1/2 Prawn sandwich on Nimble Bread 150g Prawns, 1tbls Light Mayo (~1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Low Carb Home Made Protein Bar

18:00 Lean Steak Bolognese with 40g cooked pasta only (2xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

19:15 Attack

20:30 Onslaught Post Workout

21:30 15g whey, 20g Milk Protein 200ml Soya unsweetened

Calories (Larger Training Day)

Cals 2430, Protein 262.1, carbs 155.7, fat 91.3


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

not a breakfast i'd go for, but very committed indeed

NB: i just have a bowel of corn flakes, skimmed milk, protein shake, and flaxseed oil


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> not a breakfast i'd go for, but very committed indeed
> 
> NB: i just have a bowel of corn flakes, skimmed milk, protein shake, and flaxseed oil


Hoping it is the sort of thing to make the difference


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 25

Actually starting to adjust to reduced calories and cutting - I am lucky that I do not care about eating pretty much the same thing everday which is a real bonus for someone trying to follow a disciplined diet, I also have no real love of food-sure I have likes and dislikes but I can see food as a functional requirement and not suffer cravings. Hence my cheat meal - the first and only on this cut - last saturday was to have some chips with a spit roadt chicken at the Harvester and a bit more salad then they probaby envisage most people eating! Even then I took two Need2Slin caps to deal with the carb aspect of the chips.

I do need to get a life.

Todays Diet - Training Day

06:00 2 Large Eggs, 1/2 cup spinnach, 25g mushrooms - Protein Shake (multi-vit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 6oz Sweet Potato, 150g Prawns 1tbsl low mayo (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Low Carb Home Made Protein Bar

18:00 5oz Chicken Breast with Reggae Reggae marinade, cup broccoli and cup spinnach (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

19:15 Pre Workout Supp

20:30 Post Workout Supp

21:30 15g Whey 20g Milk Protein 300ml Soya unsweetened

1/2 cup semi skimmed milk allowed for for 2x cups of tea, 1 with each protein bar  bit anal but if we are tracking calories......

Calories 2298, Protein 243g, carbs 159.7g, fat 84.5g


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 26

193lbs (-4lbs)

Abs 10mm (-2mm)

Thighs 15mm (-3mm)

Really pleased with how my scale weight is not crashing yet I can see continued leaning. To be eating 1900-2200 calories a day for me and not have lost 10lbs of muscle is in my honest opinion very significant and I can only attribute it to the assistance of Need2Slin.

It is not magic and weight will not fall off you - it is not a diet pill or fat burner. What it is when cutting is a means to preserve muscle mass by ensuring you get the best out of the calories you take in and in doing so with a well planned training routine it enables you to achieve body fat loss as apposed weight loss. Yes, I could and have managed this before without using a supplement BUT I would have never been able to drop the calories to the levels I have to encourage fat loss but preserve muscle mass too and so would have had to be far more strict and patient with diet and accept a far longer period of time to shift fat.

As I approach the end of a tub (incidentally running it generally at 1cap 3x a day means 1 tub provides 40 days use not just 28 like most supplements so there is value in the price) I am very pleased with the results. I intend to continue the run for a second tub and upto the end of April/start of May and will slowly begin to really test how well Need2Slin can help me preserve muscle mass buy starting to get pretty damn harsh on the calories!

Training last night was a reasonable session - no improvements or drops either in weights used. I did feel a little more weary I think possibly a third heavy session took its toll and I might next week contemplate that third session using slightly lighter weights and higher reps or the other alternative in mind is to look to train every 3 days providing an extra day rest in between and keeping all sessions heavy.

I will probably let my schedule determine this.

Todays Diet

06:00 3 Medium Eggs, 1/2 cup Spinnach, 15g Mushrooms, Protein Shake (MultiVit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xN2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Home Made Turkey Burger, 2 slices Nimble Bread (1xN2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Home Made 10g Carb Protein Bar

18:00 Chicken 5oz marinaded peri peri, broccoli (1xN2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 30g Milk protein

Semi Milk allowed for in 2x tea

Calories 2046, Protein 222.3g, carbs 108.1g, fat 86.2g


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

JW, how do you think the safest way to cut is whilst preserving muscle?

Im reading through your log and i'm seriously impressed by how low carbs/calories you're going. do you think you've lost any muscle?

I was thinking of dropping carbs by ~30-40g/week and stacking the phytoserm for 4 weeks, and then overlap into TT33, what do you think?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> JW, how do you think the safest way to cut is whilst preserving muscle?
> 
> Im reading through your log and i'm seriously impressed by how low carbs/calories you're going. do you think you've lost any muscle?
> 
> I was thinking of dropping carbs by ~30-40g/week and stacking the phytoserm for 4 weeks, and then overlap into TT33, what do you think?


I am optimistic that I have lost no muscle. The fact that my scale weight has only decreased by 4lbs yet I every day can see increasing evidence of having leaned along with feeling it in jeans trousers etc and skin fold measurments have decreased, also training has yet to drop off - all indicators that you can use suggest it has gone great.

I do believe the Slin is the reason for the maintaining of muscle - I am sure I could have lost similar amouts of bodyfat just as easily with out any assistance as I have done so previously but at the expense of weights on the bar and muscle too. As a total ecto all muscle has to be earnt and fought to be kept. The calories I have been running would have seen me drop in strength etc without the Slin I am convinced. However, I suspect given these circumstances I am possibly getting the most benefit a user can from it?

Keto based diets are very popular for cutting while preserving muscle. A very popular one I see pop up everywhere is Dave Palumbo diet. The trouble I have with these is the practicality, I have a family and when attempting a carb free diet in the past I found it put a strain on things because of my different meal and shopping requirements, eating out was always an issue and a headache due to me. This is why with Slin I am eating minimal carbs but still allowing them into my diet to maintain a more conventional food intake but hopefully benefitting in a similar way to a keto because of the Need2Slin.

So you are looking to cut and are considering bulbane and a fat burner (TT-33 is an I-Force non stim right?)

It depends how long you intend to run the cut over and how much you need to lose etc and so on. With what you have laid down I would look at 7-8 week plan and run Need2Slin solo for 3-4 weeks and gradually reduce calories as progress would indicate and then throw the burner and t-booster in together. My theory is you can always initially get result son a cut but things slow down so you want to keep the fat burner back a bit - then at this point with your body burning all but essential calories you ingest the t-booster will hopefully assist to preserve muscle and strength along with Need2Slin.

That is how I would do the scenario but might be worth putting it out there - mind from the first couple of pages of this journal there are some haters out there for NTBM so you might receive lectures as apposed advice but you never know.

Don't know if any still follow of check this and if they have allowed theirselves to be open minded or not to the possibility that the product might well do what (or some of what) it states. I still refrain from giving a review as such on it as I wish to continue running it till May (coming to the end of the first pot) and wish to ensure these trends continue as I am still prepared every week for a training session to take a turn and my muscle/strength preservation theory crash - but so far so good 

Will dedinately be up for following along any log you do and if you do not log it would appreciate a pm or something to give feedback on how you found it - also Phytoserms too. The relatively little feedback to date has been promising with some loggers getting outstanding results.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

congrats on the progress so far.

a lot to think about, especially the keto.. but im not sure i'll go that far.

i'm thinking of starting the phytoserm (bulbine) in a day or 2 purely because the loose bowels is impacting my weight now.

i will save the tt33 for when the cut gets tough then.

depending on your review, i might try out need2slin after the tt33 to just finish out the last few pounds of fat. so alternate test booster, fat burner, and then need2lin.

i'm starting to get the odd remark here and there about how my gf misses my 'ripped abs', but i was also 10kg lighter then.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 29

Nightmare weekend on the training front. Driving home friday night from work felt a stiffness in my neck - I was tired anyway so gave cardio a miss and figured an early night to recharge.

Woke at 1am in agony and barely able to move my back, neck shoulder etc. Was up from 1am downstairs as I could not lie down and nothing I did would relieve the pain - I even tried Tramadol (still got a load from when the mrs had a hernia).

So spent all saturday looking after the kids where she was working, almost unable to move :-(

It began easing yesterday and today is a bit better again.

So maintained my diet but got no exercise.

On the plus side I guess is checking today I have lost no further fat but not gained any either - bodyweight and skin measurements all the same.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 31

Weight - 195lbs (was up this morning! wtf) skin fold measurements were the same as they have been.

Not being crude but I did have a pretty healthy turn out so maybe I am really 189lbs now 

I will weigh again tommorrow, possible water retention fluctuation but basically it is incredible how my scale weight is maintaining - excellent if this really is the bf composition change!!!

Strength is holding steady, have not increased anything other then a rep or so but am not having to lower weights where I cannot lift from lack of calories and muscle loss.

Today is 20 mins bike cardio tonight having played a good 40 mins table tennis lunch time and sat now sweating my a8se off in the office as a result!

06:00 Protein Shake 300ml Unsweetened Soya (1xmultivit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (30g Carbs) (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Home made Beef Burger, Lean Steak Mince, Onion and Chilli paste, 2 slices Nimble Bread (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

13:30 Protein Shake (after table tennis)

14:30 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar (10gCarbs)

18:00 Chicken Breast Stir Fried in EVOO and Soy Sauce Low Sugar with Boccoli, onion, spinnach and carrot. No rice or noodles. (1xNeed2Slin 30mins before)

21:00 30g Casein Protein (2xNeed2Sleep)

Calories 1819, Protein 242.7g, Carbs 85.5g, Fat 60.1g

Will aim to take pics again at weekend see what visual progress there is, and once again the boxers will be censored!


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 32

Weight 191.5lbs (-6.5lbs)

Abs 9mm (-3mm)

Thigh 15mm (-3mm)

That weight makes more sense - obviously I created a danger to shipping when I went yesterday!

Feeling leaner. Also finding energy an issue at times now though with the calories reduced further - not where it is affecting me but I am aware of it, I will hold steady now on 1900-2000 non training days and around the 2200 mark on weight days being I am losing fat.

So far no strength loss so I think I have found the current sweet spot for calories.

Todays Diet

06:00 Protein Shake, 3 medium eggs, 15g mushrooms and 1/2 cup spinnach omellette. (1xMultiVit)

08:30 Home Made 30gCarb Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Home Made Turkey Burger, 2Wholemeal slices bread and Light Mayo 1tblsp (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Home Made 10gCarb Protein Bar

18:00 5oz Chicken Breast Reggae Reggae Marinade, 1 cup Broccoli (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

18:45 PreWorkout Supp, Attack or N2KTS

20:00 Post Workout drink Onslaught

21:00 15g Whey 20g Milk Protein 300ml unsweetened Soya (3xNeed2Sleep)

Calories 2277, Protein 257.3g, Carbs 138.2g, Fat 84.3g


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

6.5lbs? excellent stuff


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> 6.5lbs? excellent stuff


Thanks Fella - About to upload this mornings snap alongside starting one - let me know if you can spot much difference.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 36 and 1 tub of Need2Slin Down

Due to messing about trying to find the camera this morning before settling on my phone I did not get time to weigh in aswell but will do so tommorrow, along with skin pinching.

Well next progress pic and original to make easy to compare.

*Original*










*Today 1 Tub In*


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 37

Weight 191lbs (-7lbs) -.5 since last

Abs 9mm (-3mm)

Thigh 14mm (-4mm) -1mm since last

Bit less fat to pinch on the thigh this morning! Also really tummy was possibly more 8mm but I took 5 and had 3 readings for 9 and 2 for 8 so have left it feeling happy that next reading this week it will be 8mm)

Right calorie crunch time!

Training Day Today so bit higher.

06:00 300ml Unsweeteneed Soya, 28g Protein Powder (1xmultivit and 1xPhytoserms347)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 28g Protein Shake

12:00 7oz Sweet Potato, 300g Cottage Cheese Low Fat (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 150g Lean Pork Steak, Cup Broccoli (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

19:00 PreWorkout

20:15 Post Workout Drink

21:00 20g Whey, 20g Milk Protein, 300ml Unsweetened Soya (1xPhytoserms347)

Calories 2277, Protein 276.3g, Carbs 140g, Fat 73.3g

As of today I will be looking for non training days to be 1700-1900 calories and training days 1900-2100 calories.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

^ definite improvement in the waist, looking much trimmer. keep it up!!


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> ^ definite improvement in the waist, looking much trimmer. keep it up!!


Cheers bud. I believe I have shifted weight and reckon this next few weeks will take it on a level!


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 38

Feeling very tired and achy today. Trained last night and ok session again - held all weights, no progressions, but benching did feel like I was clinging a little to strength. However, I am having a little less sleep as I am waking early and not getting back - few days now. I have cycled off the Need2Sleep as I have been using it since Xmas and felt it best to go at least a couple of weeks without using it.

Todays Intake

Calories 1862, Protein 209.5g, Carbs 89.7g, Fat 77.6g

44% Protein, 19% Carbs, 37% Fat

Only just found the feature to easily view the breakdown. Although I knew it I still has not fully appreciated how low my carbs were. I am going to bring it close to a 40/30/30 ratio as the Need2Slin should ensure carbs are not the usual enemy here and hopefully this should take care of the slight lethargy I have noticed as I have reduced the calories.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 44

Weight 187lbs (-10lbs)

Abs - 8mm (-4mm)

Thigh - 14mm (-4mm)

Ahh that makes more sense on the scale - think I must been having a bit of a fat and water retaining day the other morning!

I am losing weight - obviously - but can really feel it putting on a pair of trousers this morning!

Training this week was saturday night rather then sunday (allow for mothers day).

For first time I felt a dip in strength - bench I dropped a rep on the last set - not to extreme but I am conscious and monitoring this - we all have the odd day and hopefully I can bounce back next time.

Given my weight today and visible bf I think I am roughly another 10lbs of fat away from being content with my 2nd week of May target deadline. So basically need to shift 2lbs of fat per week between now and then. I am up for that and feel I can.

Calories 1640 - Protein 219.8g - Carbs 69g - Fat 55.8g

06:00 Protein Shake 250ml Unsweetened Soya (1xMultiVitamin)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins Before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Home Made Beef Burger (Steak Extra Lean Mince, chilli paste, mustard), 2x Slices Nimble Bread (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins Before)

15:00 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 5oz Chicken Breast, Broccoli, Onion, Spinnach and .25 cup of Soya Sauce (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 250ml Unsweeteneed Soya, 15g Protein, 15g Milk Protein

Also allowed for 3 servings of milk for tea during the day - anal but if counting calories, count calories


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

10lbs? great stuff. how much more do you want to lose?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> 10lbs? great stuff. how much more do you want to lose?


I would guess in a perfect world - 10 more lbs of fat would be perfect. That requires 2lbs of fat lost per week while aiming for next to no muscle loss.

I see this as a legit test for any supplement.

Hoping next pictures will really show some transformation, might not rush the next ones - have done them fortnightly so far I think, may leave it a little longer in the hope it appears a bit more dramatic?


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

jw390898 said:


> I would guess in a perfect world - 10 more lbs of fat would be perfect. That requires 2lbs of fat lost per week while aiming for next to no muscle loss.
> 
> I see this as a legit test for any supplement.
> 
> Hoping next pictures will really show some transformation, might not rush the next ones - have done them fortnightly so far I think, may leave it a little longer in the hope it appears* a bit more dramatic?*


you could always make a little gif at the end, each photo lined up chronologically and see fat morph into ripped.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> you could always make a little gif at the end, each photo lined up chronologically and see fat morph into ripped.


Like it. Thats what I will do. Just hope there is a transformation to be seen!


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 46

Holding off weighing and measuring till tommorrow, then probably again on sunday.

Had a great training session last night - actually increased a rep on benching and this is the first compound that suffers in a cut and the last to improve on a bulk for me!

I am still in absolute amazement how I am maintaining strength and still in some occasions fractionally improving.

Of course this is subjecdtive but I am convinced this is being achieved from the use of Need2Slin and possibly the stacked Phytoserms347. Never have I lost 10lbs of weight and not seen my lifts plummett accordingly!

Today is a day off from all sorts of training - watching footie tonight, but will play table tennis lunch time for some cardio 

06:00 250ml unsweetened Soya, 1 Protein Shake (1xMultiVit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Home Made Turkey Burger, 2 Slices Nimble Bread, 1tblsp Light Mayo (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

14:30 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 200g Lean Mince, Carrotts and Onion and a little Gravy, basically shepherds pie bnut no potato (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 30g Milk Protein

1/2 cup semi skimmed allowed for 3 mugs of tea at work

Calories 1712, Protein 206.4g, Carbs 73.8g, Fat 68.7g


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 51

Well not been able to weigh myself for a few days as I need to pop out today and get a new 9v battery!

For this reason I have also held off taking skin caliper measurements.

I am confident I have continued to make progress and remained as strict as ever on diet, despite the sun and smell of bbq next door.

I have 4 weeks to go till my target deadline so will look to take new piccies end of this week then final ones 3 weeks time.

Training

Had a really good workout on thursday last week and felt strong in all lifts and good about things but saturdays session was dissapointing and a couple of lifts were down so hoping to bounce back tonight with a solid session.

I am cutting calories now so have to assume strength will be lost but hoping otherwise.

Diet Today

06:00 250ml Unsweeteneed Soya, Protein (Multivitamin)

08:30 Protein Bar Home Made (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 Protein Shake

12:00 Subway 6" Chicken Breast on Honey Oat, no cheese and light mayo (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

14:45 Protein Bar Low Carb

18:00 Chicken Breast in Reggae Reggae Sauce, 2 Slices Nimble Bread 1tblsp Light Mayo, 1x Fibre Supp (1x Need2Slin 20 mins Before)

19:00 N2KTS Pre Workout

20:30 Replinisher Post Workout

21:15 15g Protein, 15g Milk Protein 300ml Unsweetened Soya

Calories 1856, Protein 227.8g, Carbs 139.4g, Fat 55g


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 52

Weight 186.5lbs (-10.5lbs)

Abs - 7mm (-5mm)

Thigh - 14mm (-4mm)

Little more come off - I have to confess to having got a little relaxed with cardio so will need to step this up again to really push on.

Trained last night - good session. Manage an extra rep on deads which was sweet, hard to measure strength on other lifts as I decreased the load and will give myself a lighter week just to break up the heavy low rep stuff.


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 58

Weight 186lbs (-11lbs)

Abs - 7mm (-5mm)

Thigh - 14mm (-4mm)

Well been a few days and was unable to get to do piccies as never thought of it at a convieniant time basically! So I have decided I will hold it for 3 weeks and do a final pic before holiday.

Trained last night and had a really good session but feeling it like no other day for a long time this morning.

Today's Diet

06:00 200ml Unsweetened Soya, 1 Scoop Protein (MultiVit)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 1 Scoop Protein

12:00 Chicken Breast Sandwich with lettuce and light mayo (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 Home Made Lean Steak Burger, 1 Slice Wholemeal Bread (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins beofre)

21:00 30g Milk Protein, 200ml Unsweetened Soya - left to set as a mousse - mmmmm (2xNeed2Sleep)

3x .33 cup of semi milk during the day for cups of tea

Calories: 1,511 - Protein 195.6g, Carbs 83g, Fat 52.9g

Protein 49%, Carbs 21%, Fat 30%


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 60

Weight 183lbs (-14lbs)

Abs 7mm (-5mm)

Thigh 13mm (-5mm)

Going to have to monitor weight and skin caliper readings every 2 days me thinks now to ensure the right level of calories/cardio etc as my weight appears to be dropping beyond skin caliper readings which is a potential muscle loss scenario BUT I am still not down in training - in fact last night I had an excellent session and and added 2.5kg to overhead press and an extra rep on two sets for lateral raises.

Todays Diet

06:00 250ml Unsweetened Soya, 1 scoop Protein

08:30 Home made protein bar (1xNeed2slin 30 mins before)

10:00 1 Scoop Protein

12:00 1 Home Made Burger (120g Extra Lean Steak Mince 1/2 Egg White and 3g chilli paste) 2 slices Nimble bread and 1 teaspoon sugar reduced ketchup (1x Need2slin 30mins before)

15:00 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 4oz Chicken breast in peri peri marinade, cup broccoli and cup sprouts (1xneed2slin)

21:00 30g milk protein, 200ml unsweetened soya left to form mousse.

3 cups of tea worth milk during the day

Calories 1515, Protein 188.2g, Carbs 72.8g, Fat 56g

Pretty low calories now on non training days, noticing a little lethargy at times but not too bad just have to man up occasionally.


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

Very nice results thus far mate!


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

JayJo said:


> Very nice results thus far mate!


Thanks fella.

The weight loss has not suprised me, I know I can lose weight relatively quickly and easily but I have been really chuffed with the fact I have not taken any significant loss in strength or training performance.

Hoping my final photos will tell! I will be taking in another 16days time


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 66

Weight 183lbs (-15.5lbs)

Abs 6mm (-6mm)

Thigh 12mm (-6mm)

Good training session last night, held on again to all previous lifts, no improvements but then I had spent the morning shifting concrete 8foot fence posts and ramming them into the ground to make good some duff old panels and posts and that had taken a bit out of me so it might be to expected not to have hit PR'S.

Had my first drink of alcohol this year on sunday but was still pretty good and stuck to JD and diet coke and only had 6 in the end so not too damaging to my goals.

BBQ on saturday and still was disciplined by eating the chicken without marinade, 1 1/4lb burger and no sausages. A plate full of salad with only 1tblsp coleslaw, no buns and approx 50g worth of rice - took 2xNeed2Slin before eating the higher carb meal.

12 Days to Go till my final post on this and end result!

Diet Today

06:00 - 250ml Unsweetened Soya Milk 1 Sccop Protein (MultiVit)

08:30 - Home Made Protein Bart (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 - 1 Scoop Protein

12:00 - Home Made beef burger (X-Lean Steak Mince and chilli paste) 2x Slices Nimble Wholemeal Bread, tiny squirt low sugar and salt ketchup (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 - Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 - 4oz Chicken with PeriPeri Sauce, Brocolli and Sprouts (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

21:00 - 200ml Unsweetened Soya, 30g Milk Protein (2xNeed2Sleep)

Calories 1526, Protein 191.2g, Carbs 67.1g, Fat 58.2g


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Day 67

Right - deadline is approaching, time to really test the strength preservation theory of using Need2Slin with what is for me some intensely low calories :-(

Todays Diet

06:00 200ml Unsweetened Soya, 1 Scoop Protein - multivitamin

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1x Need2Slin 30 mins Before)

10:00 1 Scoop Protein

12:00 3 Slices Nimble Wholemeal, 300g Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 2 Medium Tomatoes (2xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Low Carb Home Made Protein Bar

18:00 4oz Chicken Breast in Reggae Reggae Marinade, Broccoli and Sprouts (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

20:30 300ml Unsweetened Soya 15g Whey, 15g Milk Protein

1/2 cup of semi skimmed milk allowed for - 3 cups of tea during the day.

Calories - 1414, Protein 183.5g, Carbs 82g, Fat 41.8g

Protein 51%, Carbs 22% Fat 26%.

20-30 minutes cardio on exercise bike watching Champions League Semi.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

wow, im really impressed by how much you;ve lost, but strength still hanging on strong!

this has really sparked my interesting in need2slin. what do you think is the best way to utilise need2lin on a cut? lower carb? or lower fat?


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

m118 said:


> wow, im really impressed by how much you;ve lost, but strength still hanging on strong!
> 
> this has really sparked my interesting in need2slin. what do you think is the best way to utilise need2lin on a cut? lower carb? or lower fat?


Well you will get the most benefit from Need2Slin when eating carbs - but I lose weight best with lower carb diet and so adopted the 1cap 3x a day dosing protcol with the larger (but still very low) carb meals but more to also control insuling levels through out the day.

Depends on your body and what works for you but this can obviously assist you eitherway. I cannot wait to try it when finished cutting as I will roll with 2x1 cap twice a day and then 2 caps with a large carb meal (normally pre workout) as I have seen enought that I feel confident this will keep fat to a minimum and give some awesome muscle fullness!


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

8 Days to go till my deadline.

This last week I can see the reduction of calories have pushed the fat loss on - struggled the other night with rows but everything else has remained and wonder if I should have done them earlier in the session when fresher.

Todays Diet

06:00 250ml Unsweetened Soya, 1 Scoop Protein (1xMultiVitamin)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

10:00 1 Sccop Protein

12:00 2 Slices Wholemeal Nimble Bread, 4 Small Eggs (1xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

15:00 Home Made Low Carb Protein Bar

18:00 4oz Chicken Breast oven cooked with cajun spices sprinkled, 40g rice and cup spinnach (2xNeed2Slin 30 mins before)

19:15 N2KTS Pre Workout

20:30 Post Workout Drink (22g Carbs, 35g Protein)

21:30 300ml UnSweetened Soya, 15g Whey, 15g Milk Protein (2xNeed2Sleep)

Calories 1902, Protein 228.3g, Carbs 112.4g, Fat 60.4g

Protein 48%, Carbs 24% Fat 28%


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

Weight 178.5lbs (-20lbs)

Did not get time to take skin fold measurements today :-(

Training - still going well. I have seen backl begin to suffer on rows though and have lost a rep or two across a couple of sessions now, and deads I struggled to maintain previous weight. Allother lifts have stayed solid so to be honest given I am running not far off half my sedeatory maintenance calories it is pretty famn good 

Today is a rest day, I have two nights in a row now woken and not got back to sleep at around 3am and am feeling it.

Today

06:00 200ml Unsweetened Soya 1 Scoop Protein (Multivitamin)

08:30 Home Made Protein Bar (1xNeed2Slin)

10:00 1 Scoop protein

12:00 180g prawns, 3 slices wholemeal Nimble bread, 1.5 tblsp light ,mayo (1xNeed2Slin)

15:00 Low Carb Home Made Protein Bar

18:00 4oz Chicken in peppered sauce, broccoli and Spinnach (1xNeed2Slin)

21:00 150ml unsweetened soya 30g milk protein - left to set into a mousse.

3 cups of tea, milk allowed for over the day.

Calories - 1632, Protein 207.8g, Carbs 84.9g, Fat 53.2g

Protein 50%, Carbs 20%, Fat 30%


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## jw390898 (Apr 15, 2010)

OK Guys Final Stats

Weight - 178lbs (-20.5lbs)

Abs - 5mm (-7mm)

Thigh - 11mm (-7mm)

Only these last 10 days have I struggled to maintain a previous sessions lift - I had cut calories so this could be the reason or simply I needed a rest and to deload as I have focussed primarily on low rep strength work to attempt to maintain as much muscle as possible.

In my opinion on reflection I know I could have achieved more fat loss and greater definition of abs and am a little dissapointed here BUT know that to achieve this I would have lost far more strength and muscle as it is a fight for me to hang onto any muscle I manage to pack onto my body. In this area I know that Need2Slin has enabled me to preserve so, so much more then I have ever managed to keep when cutting for shorter periods in time too in the past.

I am now getting the bug to see in the near future whether the product will minimise fat gain when eating a small calorie surplus and looking to push strength training on again - I suspect this is where it will impress me even more.

I would say to anyone contemplating Need2Slin that it is not a miracle fat loss pill nor muscle builder but what it does do is enable you to achieve either of those goals while either preserving your current muscle by seeing that all nutrients get transported to where you want them to go and insulin levels are controlled to prevent fat gain, and in a muscle building environment I am sure it would leave some incredible muscle fullness and pumps where higher carb meals are ingested and all carbs are shuttled directly 

Anyways the pics:

This was the starting point.










Before I showered last night










After Shower Last Night:


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## JayJo (Oct 19, 2009)

Very nice! Congrats! My results on Need2Slin have been similar to yours. (You've seen my progress pics after 3 weeks.) Maybe i'll post them when i'm done with my bottle!


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

excellent progress


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