# GH and Insulin



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Okay first let me state before we get started that I am writing this In hopes that you research the topics thoroughly! I have been asked by many members to outline the proper way to use insulin/GH/ and anabolic androgen AS so here goes

At the start of your cycle you will adrogen load with a heavy androgen as well as an anabolic! My reccomendations are as follows

Weeks #1-4:

750mg test enanthanate per week/50MG ANADROL OR 40-50MG d-bol per day/and 600mg deca /4-6iu GH right before bed/50mg t-3

week#5-8:

drop the 17-alka oral(being anadrol or d-bol) bump the test enanthanate to 1000mg per week/600mg deca per week/400mg e.q./6-8 iu humulin-r in the morning-to-midday then another 6-8iu humulin-r postworkout when glycogen levels are depleated please drink a high glycemic simple carb such as:

carbo force

maldextrone powder

within 10min. of insulin then within one hour of injection take in a good solid lean protein along with a fiberous carb and a good low-glycemic complex carb such as yams,sweet potaotes, long grain brown rice,ect.... as this is what we consider a slow burning carb and will stabilize blood sugar levels. then add 6iu GH at bedtime/75mg t-3(first thing in the morning)

weeks#9-12:

insulin dosage and cycling stays the same/750mg test enenthate/9iu GH/300mg deca/600mg e.q./2500iu hcg every three days the first 2 weeks(this will jumpstart your LH levels but please use an anti-estrogen preferably arimadex or femara everyday during this phase)

week#13-14:

no insulin/400mg e.q./500mg test enethate/6iu GH

week#15-16:

no insulin/200mg e.q./50mg test prop every 3 days/4iu GH/100mg primobolan every 3 days/20mg anavar per day

week#17-18:

no insulin/2iu GH/100MG primobolan/30mg anavar per day/50mg clomid per day/5000iu h.c.g.(2500iu every 3 days)50mg proviron per day/100mg t-3 per day/100mcg clen per day

week#19-20:

no insulin/2iu GH per day/50mg proviron per day/50mg t-3 per day/80mg clen per day/100mg primobolan/20mg anavar per day/50mg clomid per day

week #21-22:

no insulin/2iu GH/25mg t-3 e.o.d./60mcg per day for the first 3 days then go down to 40mcg per day the following 3-4 days then off/10-15mg anavar per day(please keep in mind that the clenbuterol is a beta-2 antagonist and will convert to skelital muscle tissue and help you to keep and maintain gains) also add in 750mg-1500mg tribulus per day!..

in a nutshell this is a typical safe cycle that if followed properly will yield excellent gains as well as help you to maintain LBM and gains as you come off and there is little to no crash assoc. with this cycle is followed to the tee. Give this a shot and for those of you that are prone to gyno and water retention the arimadex and femara work excellent although you might also want to keep some nolvaldex on hand as well if needed. I hope this explains it what a decent safe cycle looks like when incorperating GH and slin i have tried this although the quantities of certain things where diffrent but the object of this post is to show what i feel is the best way to utilise lean mass gains using these substances....

credit to the original auther for most of this research...Wyldone


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## John (Jun 5, 2004)

its good to see all that down there, good post.


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## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

Excellent Thread Paul...

... You missed out the links to loan companys at the end tho 

Sticky for a while


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## Cheater2K (Apr 3, 2003)

Gd post


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## Solid (May 17, 2005)

Nice post mate.Im going to be running Gh soon so the info is very helpful.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Solid when you are ready to start if you have any Q's just ask GH is far too expensive to waist...


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

Excellent post Paul my mate.


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

Excellent Post!


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## homer (Dec 2, 2005)

as always paul excellent post will come in usefull as did your diet helping me take a 2nd in my comp yesterday cheers


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

yep very good read nice one!


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## TypeR (May 28, 2004)

do you have to use slin can you not just use igf?  i am thinking of going down the GH route soon

Ben


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Slin has a better synergy with GH but i have used IGF-1 with GH with great effect..


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

hey paul i know you say gh is great with slin and also with igf but what can be expected from gh alone aslong as the diet is right mate


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be honest GH on its own will maintain the muscle you have along with a little fat burning but you would be disapointed with what you get for your money.

the fatburning effects of GH are much enhanced when it is stacked with Test or IGF and the muscle building effect of GH is very much enhanced when stacked with Slin/AAS or IGF


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

im on test at the mo paul so hopefully i will get some good results! sorry mate i actually meant without adding slin or igf!

i plan on taking it twice a week or would eod be better? or 5 on 2 off?

thanks


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## Great White (Apr 4, 2003)

Your still thinking of doing the IGF-1 Unc?


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## the_gre8t_1ne (Apr 18, 2005)

BIG-UNC said:


> im on test at the mo paul so hopefully i will get some good results! sorry mate i actually meant without adding slin or igf!
> 
> i plan on taking it twice a week or would eod be better? or 5 on 2 off?
> 
> thanks


From what I have read and understand 5 on 2 off at 4iu's ED for a min of 12 weeks should be good IMO


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

no paul gonna do a bit growth to see how it works on me! 



Paul Govier said:


> Your still thinking of doing the IGF-1 Unc?


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

cheers g81 was gonna do it eod or twice a week! dunno yet! 



the_gre8t_1ne said:


> From what I have read and understand 5 on 2 off at 4iu's ED for a min of 12 weeks should be good IMO


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

to be honest Unc there is positive anecdotal evidence around for nearly all of the protocols...

i have tried 5on/2off injections, everyday injections and even eod injections all with good results i am currently trying high dose (14iu's) every 3rd day....along with slin twice daily twice a week....i will report on my results....in my opinion all protocols have merit and unless someone has tried every way then no one can say that one way is the best.

i will say that in all the protocols i have used for fat loss ed injection in the morning was the best closely followed by 5on/2off...


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

cheers paul

ill try it in the mornings then,is it as soon as you wake?

i will still add muscle aswell as lose bf wont i?

hope so cos thats the plan

thanks again


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

it has been proven that you will add more lean muscle with Deca than you will with GH...you will be very dissapointed with the muscle adding results from GH mate...


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

i am on deca now paul along with test eth and test prop do you think i should give it a miss?

i originally wanted to do igf but paul g put me off with the cancer thing though i cant find anything on the net about this though!!

do you have any thoughts/info on that?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

personally Unc i do not think that you are at a high enough level to use either GH or IGF please don't take that as an insult.

I believe that you should concentrate on decent AAS cycles and a good diet to build lean mass and save the use of GH for when you are 12 weeks out from your show as you will get much more benefit by using it pre-comp....

the cancer thing with IGF....well there are no clinical studies to show that IGF does actually cause Cancer and the thinking at the moment is the same that has been around for years about GH and that is that if you would get cancer at some point in your life the use of both IGF and GH could excelerate this action..


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

yep i think your right too paul

get some experience of what works for me first diet wise and med wise

like you said ealier id probably get better results for now off deca (which im on now) so ill do it the proper way and wait!

thanks for the advice mate and i never take offence from creative critisism


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## cboo0370 (Nov 21, 2007)

pscarb,

this was written some time back and i was wondering if you still recommend doing the gh at bed time or post workout. i have been doing mine with insuline post workout IM every other day as we talked about before. how would you do your GH now as opposed to when you wrote this?

cboo


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## danda (Sep 24, 2007)

hi paul you mention t-3 50mg in week 1-4. is it 50mg or 50mcg. ?

again you mention t-e 75mg in week 5-8 is it 75mg or 75mcg.

in week 17-18 you mention 100mg t-3 is it 100mcg or 100mg

in week 19-20 50mg t-3 per day/80mg clen per day ... is it in mg or in mcg


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

ok all doses on T3 are measured in MCG not mG if i put this then it was a typo...

cboo - i now do GH/Slin Mon/Wed/Fri PWO then i take another dose of GH before bed on the days i dont use slin i use GH before bed i have found it to be the better way....

i will be updating this post soon


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## cpole64 (Aug 1, 2007)

just got hold of a cartrige of gh, really not too keen on the idea of adding insulin with it


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

alfonso said:


> @Pscarb:
> 
> "4-6iu GH right before bed"
> 
> ...


if you take GH at any point in the day it will lower natty production as the body will detect a synthetic hormone....there is not one shred of evidence out there to say GH before bed will negativly effect the body's natty production any more than using GH at any other time in the day....


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## Rocho (Mar 30, 2009)

Pscarb said:


> Okay first let me state before we get started that I am writing this In hopes that you research the topics thoroughly! I have been asked by many members to outline the proper way to use insulin/GH/ and anabolic androgen AS so here goes
> 
> At the start of your cycle you will adrogen load with a heavy androgen as well as an anabolic! My reccomendations are as follows
> 
> ...


Hi Paul

Could this be run with out the GH, just using AAS and Slin etc

If so what changes would need to made??

Your advice would be much appreciated:thumb:

(Im asking this as, i have everything you listed except the GH as my funds are a bit low buying all the other stuff!?!)


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## designmaster1 (Jun 11, 2009)

Great Information: I am looking at using HGH in my training routine ...not a body builder but long distance cycle rider, am 48 and shooting for my point break year in century rides. My question is are most of the offers for the product that I am getting on Trade key from Pakistan or China bogus. I want to increase lean muscle mass drop about lb and increase stamina and oxygen up take. Will the HG do this on its own or will I need to supplement this with insulin. I can get prescription Teostorone but don't know about dosing. Any information that you could share with me on HG dosing ,supplier and the Test. for my training purpose would help me. The GH is expensive. Thanks Designmaster1


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## loganator (Mar 19, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> to be honest Unc there is positive anecdotal evidence around for nearly all of the protocols...
> 
> i have tried 5on/2off injections, everyday injections and even eod injections all with good results i am currently trying high dose (14iu's) every 3rd day....along with slin twice daily twice a week....i will report on my results....in my opinion all protocols have merit and unless someone has tried every way then no one can say that one way is the best.
> 
> i will say that in all the protocols i have used for fat loss ed injection in the morning was the best closely followed by 5on/2off...


sorry to bump an old thread buddy , but the above post is similar to what i have just started doing my self twice per week...................... im running 5iu gh post workout then 8 iu slin 20 mins later with 100g fast carbs and 50g protein in the form of a protein/carb drink with a little honey added to make up the carbs or honey on white toast and tin of salmon ......................... then 1hr 30mins later a clean meal with another 80/100g carbs and 50g protien eg rice/potato and salmon or chicken fillets then repeating late afternoon at least 4 hrs from previous slin dose ........ does seems to be working well although i am only a week in so early days ........................

my question is this , i am trying my best to stay lean as i grow which is not easy but i was thinking maybe just doing this post workout x3 days pw instead of twice a day x2 pw as i am asking myself if the second dose of slin is more likely to lay down fat as my muscle should be quite saturated with glycogen and igf from the pwo dose ........ am just interested in how this worked for you and how much fat you gained from the x2 per day e3d run that you did ?

many thanks in advance buddy your opinion is greatly appreciated .


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

loganator said:


> sorry to bump an old thread buddy , but the above post is similar to what i have just started doing my self twice per week...................... im running 5iu gh post workout then 8 iu slin 20 mins later with 100g fast carbs and 50g protein in the form of a protein/carb drink with a little honey added to make up the carbs or honey on white toast and tin of salmon ......................... then 1hr 30mins later a clean meal with another 80/100g carbs and 50g protien eg rice/potato and salmon or chicken fillets then repeating late afternoon at least 4 hrs from previous slin dose ........ does seems to be working well although i am only a week in so early days ........................
> 
> my question is this , i am trying my best to stay lean as i grow which is not easy but i was thinking maybe just doing this post workout x3 days pw instead of twice a day x2 pw as i am asking myself if the second dose of slin is more likely to lay down fat as my muscle should be quite saturated with glycogen and igf from the pwo dose ........ am just interested in how this worked for you and how much fat you gained from the x2 per day e3d run that you did ?
> 
> many thanks in advance buddy your opinion is greatly appreciated .


Hey buddy, good to hear from you mate hope you are well?

just a cpl of questions for you Carl...

why are you taking your GH then 20min later your Insulin?

Why if you want to gain lean tissue are you eating salmon at the time you have the Insulin?

in my opinion i got better (by this i mean leaner) results by using the Insulin just PWO 3 x week,


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## loganator (Mar 19, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> Hey buddy, good to hear from you mate hope you are well?
> 
> just a cpl of questions for you Carl...
> 
> ...


Hi mate , thanks for your reply , im using the insulin 20 mins after gh to let the gh do its thing as I eat 10 mins after the insulin and thought this would interfere with igf production , also I know salmon has fat but didn't really think that good fats were a bad thing in the amounts I am consuming along side the insulin ...... I also find that almost every powdered protien I have tried tends to give me bad skin so prefer food sources were possible , I use a 6 hr release powdered protien on non insulin days and this does not seem to affect my skin so much but I thought if I use a 6 hr release with slin then the absorbtion may not be quick enough although I have no idea how long it takes my body to absorb 50g of protein contained in a tin if salmon lol ...... I am open to suggestions on protien sources food or powdered if there are better ones that are less likely to give me bad skin/acne ?

Thanks mate , hope you and yours are good and appreciate the input from you .


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Carl, there is no reason to wait to eat after the GH shot buddy it does not interfere with anything, the salmon has good fats but when it comes to insulin fat is fat no matter if it is good or bad, now you might be ok in doing this but just be aware if you are gaining a little bad weight this might be the cause.

PWO i prefer leucine at 5g then eat a solid meal of lean steak or Chicken once i get home.....

in my opinion the best way to use Insulin PWO is in the same syringe as the GH straight after training along with food, on paper this should not be the best way but it works and works very well.....


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## loganator (Mar 19, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> Carl, there is no reason to wait to eat after the GH shot buddy it does not interfere with anything, the salmon has good fats but when it comes to insulin fat is fat no matter if it is good or bad, now you might be ok in doing this but just be aware if you are gaining a little bad weight this might be the cause.
> 
> PWO i prefer leucine at 5g then eat a solid meal of lean steak or Chicken once i get home.....
> 
> in my opinion the best way to use Insulin PWO is in the same syringe as the GH straight after training along with food, on paper this should not be the best way but it works and works very well.....


I have read in other articles about taking slin/gh together as an intra muscular shot instead of subq , if you were to do this would you then have your carbs right away due to faster absorbtion ?

Thanks again mate


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

loganator said:


> I have read in other articles about taking slin/gh together as an intra muscular shot instead of subq , if you were to do this would you then have your carbs right away due to faster absorbtion ?
> 
> Thanks again mate


whenever you use Insulin i would always advise to have some fast carbs straight away then more 60min later buddy......


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## blingbling (Aug 8, 2014)

Can any anyone tell me wot the omnitrope 30iu pre mix is like!?does gh have a smell to i?


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