# Genetics...?



## BarBella

Part of me hates to ask this but its a burning question I just have to ask lol...

I hear a lot of the time after seeing people with amazing physiques being described as having "amazing genetics"

And also hearing a lot of people either struggling to put on some mass or get lean "I just can't do it because of my genetics"

My question is how much truth is actually behind this?

I know out of experience that there are some guys/girls that 'seem' to naturally be able to either put on muscle easier or get lean easier than most without half the amount of effort i.e. poor tired & half **** training.

Is it also true that you may get one guy who can get lean by a restricted diet and no cardio and another who has to watch everything he puts in his mouth and do sprints 3 times a week to get the same result.

I've even seen guys & girls claim that they "just can't get lean because of their genetics"

I'm really intrigued by this subject, is there truth in part to some of it or does it simply come down to how dedicated you are in the gym and with your diet?

And also realistically how many of the guys and girls that you see in fantastic shape are 100% natural? Especially the girls, I've recently been seeing more and more women with amazing physiques, substantial muscle mass and very lean! Are these girls natural with 'great genetics' or are they using something to enhance their physiques?

Any thoughts would be great


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## Marshan

Genetics is everything...100%.


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## BOSS

I think people blame genetics far too often, when really they either do not know about or are too lazy to implement a diet and exercise plan.


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## BOSS

BarBella said:


> I've even seen guys & girls claim that they "just can't get lean because of their genetics"


LOL, just lol.

"My chitty genetics won't allow me to eat below my caloric maintenance! Oh why do I have bad genetics!?!?"


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## Marshan

BarBella said:


> Part of me hates to ask this but its a burning question I just have to ask lol...
> 
> I hear a lot of the time after seeing people with amazing physiques being described as having "amazing genetics"
> 
> And also hearing a lot of people either struggling to put on some mass or get lean "I just can't do it because of my genetics"
> 
> My question is how much truth is actually behind this?
> 
> I know out of experience that there are some guys/girls that 'seem' to naturally be able to either put on muscle easier or get lean easier than most without half the amount of effort i.e. poor tired & half **** training.
> 
> Is it also true that you may get one guy who can get lean by a restricted diet and no cardio and another who has to watch everything he puts in his mouth and do sprints 3 times a week to get the same result.
> 
> I've even seen guys & girls claim that they "just can't get lean because of their genetics"
> 
> I'm really intrigued by this subject, is there truth in part to some of it or does it simply come down to how dedicated you are in the gym and with your diet?
> 
> And also realistically how many of the guys and girls that you see in fantastic shape are 100% natural? Especially the girls, I've recently been seeing more and more women with amazing physiques, substantial muscle mass and very lean! Are these girls natural with 'great genetics' or are they using something to enhance their physiques?
> 
> Any thoughts would be great


My rule of thumb for a long time has been this...if you look at someone, man or woman, and ask yourself if theyve used anything, then they more than likely have. It's even more obvious with women than men. It's true, dedication in the gym means a lot (decication in the gym is also determined by genetics), but if the genetics aren't right to start with it's an uphill battle all the way. And for a skinny person on cal. deficit it's easier to get big than a person overweight trying to cut...again genetics. No matter which way you dice it up...it's genetics all the way. I have written here in the past that Dorian is quoted as saying that he had to work harder than people with better genetics to get the prizes....I dont believe that anymore...Dorian had great genetics (probably better than even he was aware of or would admit to) and as a result, he got the prizes. The hard work just cemented it for him. Don't forget, his attitude to training was predetermined genetically as well.


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## Marshan

BOSS said:


> I think people blame genetics far too often, when really they either do not know about or are too lazy to implement a diet and exercise plan.


True, up to a point. But, laziness is genetically predetermined.


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## BOSS

mixerD1 said:


> My rule of thumb for a long time has been this...if you look at someone, man or woman, and ask yourself if theyve used anything, then they more than likely have. It's even more obvious with women than men. It's true, dedication in the gym means a lot (decication in the gym is also determined by genetics), but if the genetics aren't right to start with it's an uphill battle all the way. And for a skinny person on cal. deficit it's easier to get big than a person overweight trying to cut...again genetics. No matter which way you dice it up...it's genetics all the way. I have written here in the past that Dorian is quoted as saying that he had to work harder than people with better genetics to get the prizes....I dont believe that anymore...Dorian had great genetics (probably better than even he was aware of or would admit to) and as a result, he got the prizes. The hard work just cemented it for him. Don't forget, his attitude to training was predetermined genetically as well.


Yeah, but these are the top levels of bodybuilding. For the everyday man or woman it's surely possible to get a good physique, even with awful genetics.


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## BarBella

mixerD1 said:


> My rule of thumb for a long time has been this...if you look at someone, man or woman, and ask yourself if theyve used anything, then they more than likely have. It's even more obvious with women than men. It's true, dedication in the gym means a lot (decication in the gym is also determined by genetics), but if the genetics aren't right to start with it's an uphill battle all the way. And for a skinny person on cal. deficit it's easier to get big than a person overweight trying to cut...again genetics. No matter which way you dice it up...it's genetics all the way. I have written here in the past that Dorian is quoted as saying that he had to work harder than people with better genetics to get the prizes....I dont believe that anymore...Dorian had great genetics (probably better than even he was aware of or would admit to) and as a result, he got the prizes. The hard work just cemented it for him. Don't forget, his attitude to training was predetermined genetically as well.


We're on the same wavelength there, I completely agree.

So in some cases you will get two guys who train just as hard in the gym but the one can get away with having a cheeky cheat a couple times a week, even in comp prep, and the other can't even sniff a dollop of honey?

And there are some people who have to do that extra cardio, do some people just have to 'work harder' to get the same result?


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## harrison180

why are some people better than others at anything else? i played darts quite seriously for 3 years but i couldnt throw like the pros. i would practice 4hrs a day and was a decent pub player but i met guys at comps who never practiced yet would do 501 legs in 12 or 15 darts.

this is the same, some peoples bodies will just build without much effort, some have to really control their diet and some just really have to work hard at it. everyones different but i think everyone can reach a decent muscular body it just might take someone abit longer than another person.


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## eezy1

those with genetics to suit will always do better and look better. you just have to make best of what you have and stop trying to look like someone else


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## Marshan

BOSS said:


> Yeah, but these are the top levels of bodybuilding. For the everyday man or woman it's surely possible to get a good physique, even with awful genetics.


Well, my post was specifically to Barbellas question. Nobody mentioned the ordinary man or woman as such...but the principles remain the same. How do you determine what a ''good physique'' is though. How do you determine what ordinary is? Is the ordinary person of a certain age...are there limitations to his/her training, diet and supplements?


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## Marshan

BarBella said:


> We're on the same wavelength there, I completely agree.
> 
> So in some cases you will get two guys who train just as hard in the gym but the one can get away with having a cheeky cheat a couple times a week, even in comp prep, and the other can't even sniff a dollop of honey?
> 
> And there are some people who have to do that extra cardio, do some people just have to 'work harder' to get the same result?


Yes. But by the same token, that person who might have to work harder might have a better response to AAS use and therefore cut much more easily under different conditions. That better response is predetermined genetically as well you see though.


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## Breda

Too many people use genetics as an excuse and I have been guilty of it myself usin it as an excuse for havin sh!t calves when in reality I wasnt trainin them anywhere near as I should have

While genetics do have a big part to play a half decent physique can be attained by someone with poor genes if they're willin to work hard for it


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## 1manarmy

Genetics play a part yeah but I don't agree its 100% everything.


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## Big Kris

You cant find out the true potential of your "genetics" if you dont put the effort in

its a load of sh!t when people say its just genetics....... Genetics dont work by just sitting there do they??


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## Marshan

It's 100% everything. You can genetically modify a donkey....feed him with cutting edge hay and all the equipoise in the world...but he'll still be a donkey and not a racehorse.


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## BOSS

mixerD1 said:


> Well, my post was specifically to Barbellas question. Nobody mentioned the ordinary man or woman as such...but the principles remain the same. How do you determine what a ''good physique'' is though. How do you determine what ordinary is? Is the ordinary person of a certain age...are there limitations to his/her training, diet and supplements?


Yeah, good points.


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## Marshan

Big Kris said:


> You cant find out the true potential of your "genetics" if you dont put the effort in
> 
> its a load of sh!t when people say its just genetics....... Genetics dont work by just sitting there do they??


There's a great old saying...the cream will always rise to the top. It's the same with genetics.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

Genetics play a HUGE role IMPO HOWEVER Genetics can be manipulated with the various drugs that are available today so technically Normal Genetics that your born with dont mean squat (just my opinion of course lol)


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## BOSS

mixerD1 said:


> It's 100% everything. You can genetically modify a donkey....feed him with cutting edge hay and all the equipoise in the world...but he'll still be a donkey and not a racehorse.


I disagree here.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

And by drugs i dont just mean AAS Or Peptides I mean EVERYTHING even over the counter stuff thats available now too.


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## Marshan

BOSS said:


> I disagree here. Genetics is not 100% everything. Nothing is 100% anything.


I don't think you quite grasp what you've typed there.


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## gettingLEAN

Yeah they play a part but you can work around flaws in your genetics to reach your goals.

You will find most people who cry about genetics are the overly obese people who are just to damn lazy to work at something and call upon the genetics to find any easy excuse to not try!

"I could be lean if i had better genetics" = No you could be lean if you controlled what you eat along with a good exercise regime!

"I could be bigger if i had better genetics" = No you could be bigger if you spend the time to eat the right amount of food needed for YOU!"

True terms of genetics imo is stuff like fully belly muscles etc, this is the sh1t you cant change and the sh1t you must work around in order to get that look you want!

Me for example i have a 1" Gap between my top abs, there is nothing i can do about this as its genetics i dont like it but i have to live with it!


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## Marshan

Chris4Pez said:


> And by drugs i dont just mean AAS Or Peptides I mean EVERYTHING even over the counter stuff thats available now too.


I know what you're saying...but I'm pretty certain over the counter meds, AAS and peptides do not to the best of my knowledge change the structure of individual genomes or D.N.A. structures throughout the body.


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## BOSS

Chris4Pez said:


> Genetics play a HUGE role IMPO HOWEVER Genetics can be manipulated *with the various drugs* that are available today so *technically Normal Genetics that your born with dont mean squat *(just my opinion of course lol)


Bone structure, muscle bellies, etc can't be changed by drugs.


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## Heath

gettingLEAN said:


> Me for example i have a 1" Gap between my top abs, there is nothing i can do about this as its genetics i dont like it but i have to live with it!


full of fvcking excuses ain't ya! :laugh:

@L11 loves a good genetics thread :thumb:


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## BOSS

mixerD1 said:


> I don't think you quite grasp what you've typed there.


Edited to save face lol.


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## Chris4Pez1436114538

So your saying through drugs you cant change bine structure.....

Do some research on varying peptides and things like HGH over time and then see what bone structure cant be changed through use of drugs.


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## Marshan

gettingLEAN said:


> Yeah they play a part but you can work around flaws in your genetics to reach your goals.
> 
> You will find most people who cry about genetics are the overly obese people who are just to damn lazy to work at something and call upon the genetics to find any easy excuse to not try!
> 
> "I could be lean if i had better genetics" = No you could be lean if you controlled what you eat along with a good exercise regime!
> 
> "I could be bigger if i had better genetics" = No you could be bigger if you spend the time to eat the right amount of food needed for YOU!"
> 
> True terms of genetics imo is stuff like fully belly muscles etc, this is the sh1t you cant change and the sh1t you must work around in order to get that look you want!
> 
> Me for example i have a 1" Gap between my top abs, there is nothing i can do about this as its genetics i dont like it but i have to live with it!


So...the lazy persons you're talking about could rise above their genetics if they were just willing to work harder?


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## gettingLEAN

mixerD1 said:


> So...the lazy persons you're talking about could rise above their genetics if they were just willing to work harder?


No the lazy people blame genetics when its not genetics in most cases


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## funkdocta

I know a couple of guys who have fantastic physiques and they smoke drink, dont go the gym, and eat whatever the **** they want.

People like that are just lucky bastards and have great genetics. The majority of us have to work to get it. That does not mean we cant get it though. I really don't believe for one second that someone can blame their genetics for not being able to put on mass or lose weight. That is when its just an excuse.

At the high end of bodybuilding genetics also plays a massive role. Some people will never win a comp because genetically they are not symmetrical and just will never look as balanced as others. That is when someone can use genetics as an excuse.


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## Marshan

Chris4Pez said:


> So your saying through drugs you cant change bine structure.....
> 
> Do some research on varying peptides and things like HGH over time and then see what bone structure cant be changed through use of drugs.


Well, I did not actually type that. All I've been saying is who you are as a preson...how you appear to others...is predetermined by your genetics. OK...if you do change bone structure using GH (I think you're overestimating peptides on this one but I could be wrong)...you used the bodies facility to do that...but you have not changed that persons genetically and D.N.A. predetermined ability to grow bones and ultimately their length.


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## Marshan

gettingLEAN said:


> No the lazy people blame genetics when its not genetics in most cases


Yes....but a persons attitude to work or their level of laziness is predetermined genetically.


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## gettingLEAN

mixerD1 said:


> Yes....but a persons attitude to work or their level of laziness is predetermined genetically.


haha you may be right!


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> *I know a couple of guys who have fantastic physiques and they smoke drink, dont go the gym, and eat whatever the **** they want.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *
> People like that are just lucky bastards and have great genetics. The majority of us have to work to get it. That does not mean we cant get it though*. I really don't believe for one second that someone can blame their genetics for not being able to put on mass or lose weight. That is when its just an excuse.
> 
> At the high end of bodybuilding genetics also plays a massive role. *Some people will never win a comp because genetically they are not symmetrical and just will never look as balanced as others***. That is when someone can use genetics as an excuse.


You just totally contradicted yourself here.


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> You just totally contradicted yourself here.


How?? Them guys have great genetics and dont have to work to get a good physique, others do. That has nothing to do with high level body building were you are being just on symmetry etc. There is having a great physique and there is being Mr. Olympia.

Its not that confusing.


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## Marshan

gettingLEAN said:


> haha you may be right!


I'm not being a smart cnut...but is it not obvious to you that laziness is genetically predetermined? Think of 1 guy you know...a real hard working fella...a proper grinder...he didn't wake up one morning and decide to be like that...it's in him to be like that...I know a few lads like that, and (again not being smart but) they're all skinny lads. They're the kind of fellas who'll dig a hole just to fill it in again.....it's in the genes as the saying goes.


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> I'm not being a smart cnut...but is it not obvious to you that laziness is genetically predetermined? Think of 1 guy you know...a real hard working fella...a proper grinder...he didn't wake up one morning and decide to be like that...it's in him to be like that...I know a few lads like that, and (again not being smart but) they're all skinny lads. They're the kind of fellas who'll dig a hole just to fill it in again.....it's in the genes as the saying goes.


I think that has more to do with your upbringing than genetics. If your parents let you be a lazy cvnt then you will be a lazy cvnt


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> How?? Them guys have great genetics and dont have to work to get a good physique, others do. That has nothing to do with high level body building were you are being just on symmetry etc. There is having a great physique and there is being Mr. Olympia.
> 
> Its not that confusing.


Well... you first typed that ''the majority of us have to work hard to get that,but that does not mean that we cant get it''.

Then you typed....''Some people will never win a comp because genetically they are not symmetrical and just will never look as balanced as others''.


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> I think that has more to do with your upbringing than genetics. If your parents let you be a lazy cvnt then you will be a lazy cvnt


Do you really believe that? Explain a hyperactive child to me so....just a bold child I suppose is it?


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## funkdocta

Yeah, Like i said, its one thing having a great physique, its another winning a comp like Mr. Olympia.

I'm not sure what your point is?


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> Do you really believe that? Explain a hyperactive child to me so....just a bold child I suppose is it?


No they are either being given too many E numbers or sugar. Or they have a medical condition like ADHD. Pretty much all kids are a little hypo anyway, thats part of being a kid. Laziness is drummed into them by lazy parents


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> No they are either being given too many E numbers or sugar. Or they have a medical condition like ADHD. Pretty much all kids are a little hypo anyway, thats part of being a kid. Laziness is drummed into them by lazy parents


ADHD is a genetic condition. And if the parents are lazy well it's highly likely that genetically the child will be lazy too. Thanks, you're making this awful easy for me.


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## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Yes....but a persons attitude to work or their level of laziness is predetermined genetically.


Nonsense


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> ADHD is a genetic condition. And if the parents are lazy well it's highly likely that genetically the child will be lazy too. Thanks, you're making this awful easy for me.


Not really, your just using bro science. Knock yourself out haha your entitled to your opinion as are we all


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## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> ADHD is a genetic condition. And if the parents are lazy well it's highly likely that genetically the child will be lazy too. Thanks, you're making this awful easy for me.


Unless you can back this up with a study that proves being lazy is a genetic trait rather than a choice this is purely your opinion and therefore not worth arguing about


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> Yeah, Like i said, its one thing having a great physique, its another winning a comp like Mr. Olympia.
> 
> I'm not sure what your point is?


Well if you're not sure what my point is, why are you arguing with me?


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## Big Kris

mixerD1 said:


> There's a great old saying...the cream will always rise to the top. It's the same with genetics.


When making cream a lot of effort has to go i to make it through churning (training at the gym,diet, dedication)

Just stiring milk with a stick wont make cream


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## funkdocta

Ginger Ben said:


> Nonsense


Bro science, got to love it


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## Big Kris

.


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## funkdocta

Big Kris said:


> .


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## Big Kris

funkdocta said:


>


it was a double post numpty


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> Well if you're not sure what my point is, why are you arguing with me?


Aint no arguing here fella


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## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> Unless you can back this up with a study that proves being lazy is a genetic trait rather than a choice this is purely your opinion and therefore not worth arguing about


Really? Wow...sh1t just got real. I need to back myself up. Do you go in much for scientific studies? So then...if I pull up a study to say laziness is inherited and not a choice...what do I get? Just assume Im wrong then and dont trouble yourself arguing with me, I didnt ask for an argument...and FWIW...most of the stuff here is opinionbased....WTF is next...opinions aren't allowed anymore, we just post scientific studies instead?


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## Marshan

Big Kris said:


> When making cream a lot of effort has to go i to make it through churning (training at the gym,diet, dedication)
> 
> Just stiring milk with a stick wont make cream


Oh dear god....dairy farming not yer strong point eh? You dont 'make' cream...it's in the milk to begin with.


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> Bro science, got to love it


How the f**k is this bro-science..? Have you read what I'm saying somewhere else? You typed a minute ago you didn't know what my point was....now you do? Did you go back over a few points you missed or something?


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> How the f**k is this bro-science..? Have you read what I'm saying somewhere else? You typed a minute ago you didn't know what my point was....now you do? Did you go back over a few points you missed or something?


No. Now you are talking about two different things. There is two conversations going on here. Catch up.


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## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Really? Wow...sh1t just got real. I need to back myself up. Do you go in much for scientific studies? So then...if I pull up a study to say laziness is inherited and not a choice...what do I get? Just assume Im wrong then and dont trouble yourself arguing with me, I didnt ask for an argument...and FWIW...most of the stuff here is opinionbased....WTF is next...opinions aren't allowed anymore, we just post scientific studies instead?


I'm surprised you're so offended by my request. Your posts are so self assured, bordering on arrogant I thought you'd love the chance to prove you were right.

There are studies Fwiw that show rats can be pre disposed to preferring to be inactive by selective breeding but to prove it in humans i believe is a way off. Either way even if a person was genetically pre disposed to be lazy It's still their choice to not get off their ar5e and do something active. Genetics isn't strapping them to the sofa.


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> Really? Wow...sh1t just got real. I need to back myself up. Do you go in much for scientific studies? So then...if I pull up a study to say laziness is inherited and not a choice...what do I get? Just assume Im wrong then and dont trouble yourself arguing with me, I didnt ask for an argument...and FWIW...most of the stuff here is opinionbased....WTF is next...opinions aren't allowed anymore, we just post scientific studies instead?


I think putting your opinion across like its fact is were you are going wrong. 

Anyway lets stop all this nonsense and get back on topic.


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## MRSTRONG

Its bs to a degree , put the effort in and you can be ripped/massive , drugs and lifestyle can help and hinder .

Ifbb pros are not born pros they become pro through effort beyond that that we give having said that it does depend on the ratio of muscle fibers we are born with .


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## Big Kris

mixerD1 said:


> Oh dear god....dairy farming not yer strong point eh? You dont 'make' cream...it's in the milk to begin with.


You still have to churn the milk to get the cream out of it was the point i was making

No churning and the cream wont rise to the "top" as you stated


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## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> I'm surprised you're so offended by my request. Your posts are so self assured, bordering on arrogant I thought you'd love the chance to prove you were right.
> 
> There are studies Fwiw that show rats can be pre disposed to preferring to be inactive by selective breeding but to prove it in humans i believe is a way off. Either way even if a person was genetically pre disposed to be lazy It's still their choice to not get off their ar5e and do something active. Genetics isn't strapping them to the sofa.


Ben, I come across arrogant because I'm certain of what I'm writing about...I'm still potentially wrong though..but just as much as I havent proven anything in this thread...noone has proved me wrong either. I'm not at all offended...but if anyone says today is wednesday here lately it has to be backed up with a f**king Harvard funded study nowadays or nobody's certain what day it is..it's gone bananas for want of studies here lately. Noone can make their own mind up anymore.


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> Its bs to a degree , put the effort in and you can be ripped/massive , drugs and lifestyle can help and hinder .
> 
> Ifbb pros are not born pros they become pro through effort beyond that that we give having said that it does depend on the ratio of muscle fibers we are born with .


 :thumb: Yep that is the point I was making earlier.


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> I think putting your opinion across like its fact is were you are going wrong.
> 
> Anyway lets stop all this nonsense and get back on topic.


Srsly dude....5 mins ago you didnt understand my point. Do you even know what the topic is at all?


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> Its bs to a degree , put the effort in and you can be ripped/massive , drugs and lifestyle can help and hinder .
> 
> Ifbb pros are not born pros they become pro through effort beyond that that we give having said that it does depend on the ratio of muscle fibers we are born with .


 :thumb: Yep that is the point I was making earlier.


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## Marshan

Big Kris said:


> You still have to churn the milk to get the cream out of it was the point i was making
> 
> No churning and the cream wont rise to the "top" as you stated


Churning is for making butter.


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> :thumb: Yep that is the point I was making earlier.


Oh....how convenient. F**k me I should have known all along then shouldn't I? BS.


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> Srsly dude....5 mins ago you didnt understand my point. Do you even know what the topic is at all?


Your confused. I was talking in regards to you saying i was contradicting myself when I wasn't so didn't see what your point was. Now we are talking about genetic predisposition to be lazy... seriously keep fella


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## MRSTRONG

mixerD1 said:


> Oh....how convenient. F**k me I should have known all along then shouldn't I? BS.


Haha I've not read the thread , was he going the long weird random way round :lol:


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## Big Kris

mixerD1 said:


> Churning is for making butter.


your a fvcking idiot.... you get my point either way

If you dont put the effort in you dont get the cream "body you want"


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## MRSTRONG

Big Kris said:


> your a fvcking idiot.... you get my point either way
> 
> If you dont put the effort in you dont get the cream "body you want"


You're cock looks massive next to those skinny legs


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## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> Your confused. I was talking in regards to you saying i was contradicting myself when I wasn't so didn't see what your point was. Now we are talking about genetic predisposition to be lazy... seriously keep fella


OMG...how have you even survived this long? You typed a few minutes ago...''back on topic''...'WE' are not talking abt predisposition to being lazy....I was.


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## funkdocta

ewen said:


> Haha I've not read the thread , was he going the long weird random way round :lol:


For some people it was weird and long yeah... :wacko:


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## Marshan

Big Kris said:


> your a fvcking idiot.... you get my point either way
> 
> If you dont put the effort in you dont get the cream "body you want"


I can live with being an idiot...I'll never go hungry for cream or butter though.


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## funkdocta

mixerD1 said:


> OMG...how have you even survived this long? You typed a few minutes ago...''back on topic''...'WE' are not talking abt predisposition to being lazy....I was.


Sigh....


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## BOSS

Bananas.


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## Fatstuff

Dunno about laziness but genetics does play a massive part imo, I have friends all who train, all genetically dissimilar, i track my diet better than any of them, i am more consistent than any of them and i have definitely made the most change out of all of them.

That being said... one of them is just shy of 12 stone eats what he wants, takes gear and is ripped to the bone (looks bigger than 12 stone as hes short and small framed). My other m8 easily packs on mass, rarely trains more than shoulders and chest once maybe twice a week, diet is average at best. has done one cycle, looks huge.

Another, takes gear, trains consistently (although not legs), diets sh1t - looks sh1t

Now i KNOW for a fact that if i trained/ate like any of them i would look a lot sh1tter than i do now.

To some it just doesnt come as easy to.


----------



## L11

Everyone knows my thoughts on this..


----------



## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Ben, I come across arrogant because I'm certain of what I'm writing about...I'm still potentially wrong though..but just as much as I havent proven anything in this thread...noone has proved me wrong either. I'm not at all offended...but if anyone says today is wednesday here lately it has to be backed up with a f**king Harvard funded study nowadays or nobody's certain what day it is..it's gone bananas for want of studies here lately. Noone can make their own mind up anymore.


Everybody is welcome to and entitled to their opinion of course, it's when you state your opinion as if it's fact that it gets my back up and others it seems.


----------



## Marshan

funkdocta said:


> Sigh....


Ah don't go....that picture makes you come across real cool and Alpha. I 've a new found respect for you after posting that...how cool!!


----------



## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> Everybody is welcome to and entitled to their opinion of course, it's when you state your opinion as if it's fact that it gets my back up and others it seems.


Good point Ben. So, it's more a case of how I said what I've said than what I've said that's upsetting you? Sorry dude.


----------



## BOSS

mixerD1 said:


> Ah don't go....that picture makes you come across real cool and Alpha. I 've a new found respect for you after posting that...how cool!!


You're taking things a little too seriously there.


----------



## Marshan

L11 said:


> Everyone knows my thoughts on this..


Actually...I didn't L11...but one look at your avi (not your tagline) tells me exactly what you think and I'm pretty certain we're on the same page!!!


----------



## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Good point Ben. So, it's more a case of how I said what I've said than what I've said that's upsetting you? Sorry dude.


Yes exactly. No worries


----------



## Fatstuff

L11 said:


> Everyone knows my thoughts on this..


Yeah, this is a real bone of contention for you because you work hard and your diets bang on but just because you do work hard AND your diets good doesnt mean that your genetics dont play a part. You are made up entirely different to the next guy, he may genetically be a better runner than you or a better powerlifter.

We are all different with different predispositions, you may (or may not) have good genes for holding muscle and keeping bodyfat low but you cant really say that it doesnt make a difference because it does.


----------



## Heath

I would say it's not just genetics but also activity level growing up maybe?

kid that's been brought up laying bricks all weekend with his dad is probably going to have a better base than the kid who spent his childhood online gaming 24/7.


----------



## WilsonR6

Am I right in thinking genetics includes your natural size and natural hormone levels/metabolism?

If so, then it has EVERYTHING to do with people's size, even on steroids.. like my gym partner is 6 ft 7 he can eat 4 chicken breasts and gym like he's just snacked on a mars bar, if I eat 4 chicken breasts I need a 2 hour nap

Same goes for hormone levels?

A guy who goes my gym hasn't been in months, never trains back when he did gym and me and my partner were doing 1rm deadlifts, he came over not even warmed up not even gymed in months and picked up 220kg like nothing.. I've been gyming constantly, I was on fu*c*king tren at the time and I didn't even get it off the floor


----------



## bail

MutantX said:


> I would say it's not just genetics but also activity level growing up maybe?
> 
> kid that's been brought up laying bricks all weekend with his dad is probably going to have a better base than the kid who spent his childhood online gaming 24/7.


I've been doing hard physical labour since a young age an all I got is a bad back haha,

Does defiantly give you better base level of strength though


----------



## dtlv

Purely from the point of view of clinical trials where newbs are put on similar diets and given identical training routines and are coached to exert the same level of effort as much as is possible there are obvious differences between how quickly different individuals respond - the range is always quite wide.

Many physiological factors relevant to bodybuilding do vary between individuals - muscle fiber type distribution, androgen receptor density, insulin sensitivity, physical characteristics that affect strength/leverage such as differing positions of muscle insertions... also many of the enzymes that regulate pathways that control things as diverse as substrate oxidation and protein synthesis are known to exist as different genetic polymorphisms within the population, and the different polymorphisms do result in meaningful differences in how people respond to a similar stress.

There is a good argument too that some people are genetically more or less able to be dedicated, or even to make choices about what is appropriate for their goals (low intelligence = silly choices/closedmindedness when it comes to advice). Genetic diversity exists and is part of the evolutionary force that has made us human, and essential to how that works is variation of response to a whole range of external factors within a single species... and yes, since this affects everything else, surely it affects bodybuilding too.

That said, I think unless someone suffers severe dysfunction and has a lot of physical problems from birth, pretty much everyone with enough desire, opportunity and a sensible approach could build a pretty decent healthy body. Different people may have a different optimal approach however.

Is arguable that the natural human state is much healthier as an average than the average people accept in the modern world we live in of unhealthy diets, over stressed lifestyles, and limited exercise, and that if we all still lived as we evolved then we'd all be closer to looking fit and healthy anyway.

In short I think that genetic variation definitely means that some people would find something like bodybuilding easier than others, but that all people can look decent even if it takes different lengths of time and greater/lesser effort for different people. Developing an olympian level physique however is not within the reach of everyone IMO, even with the PEDs factored in. I'll also repeat again that due to genetic diversity, the optimal approach for one person may not necessarily be the optimal approach for another person with different genetics.


----------



## Ginger Ben

dtlv said:


> Purely from the point of view of clinical trials where newbs are put on similar diets and given identical training routines and are coached to exert the same level of effort as much as is possible there are obvious differences between how quickly different individuals respond - the range is always quite wide.
> 
> Many physiological factors relevant to bodybuilding do vary between individuals - muscle fiber type distribution, androgen receptor density, insulin sensitivity, physical characteristics that affect strength/leverage such as differing positions of muscle insertions... also many of the enzymes that regulate pathways that control things as diverse as substrate oxidation and protein synthesis are known to exist as different genetic polymorphisms within the population, and the different polymorphisms do result in meaningful differences in how people respond to a similar stress.
> 
> There is a good argument too that some people are genetically more or less able to be dedicated, or even to make choices about what is appropriate for their goals (low intelligence = silly choices/closedmindedness when it comes to advice). Genetic diversity exists and is part of the evolutionary force that has made us human, and essential to how that works is variation of response to a whole range of external factors within a single species... and yes, since this affects everything else, surely it affects bodybuilding too.
> 
> That said, I think unless someone suffers severe dysfunction and has a lot of physical problems from birth, pretty much everyone with enough desire, opportunity and a sensible approach could build a pretty decent healthy body. Different people may have a different optimal approach however.
> 
> Is arguable that the natural human state is much healthier as an average than the average people accept in the modern world we live in of unhealthy diets, over stressed lifestyles, and limited exercise, and that if we all still lived as we evolved then we'd all be closer to looking fit and healthy anyway.
> 
> In short I think that genetic variation definitely means that some people would find something like bodybuilding easier than others, but that all people can look decent even if it takes different lengths of time and greater/lesser effort for different people. Developing an olympian level physique however is not within the reach of everyone IMO, even with the PEDs factored in. I'll also repeat again that due to genetic diversity, the optimal approach for one person may not necessarily be the optimal approach for another person with different genetics.


Beautifully put as always.

You know if team det-ramental doesn't come off you should be a sciency person


----------



## Marshan

dtlv said:


> Purely from the point of view of clinical trials where newbs are put on similar diets and given identical training routines and are coached to exert the same level of effort as much as is possible there are obvious differences between how quickly different individuals respond - the range is always quite wide.
> 
> Many physiological factors relevant to bodybuilding do vary between individuals - muscle fiber type distribution, androgen receptor density, insulin sensitivity, physical characteristics that affect strength/leverage such as differing positions of muscle insertions... also many of the enzymes that regulate pathways that control things as diverse as substrate oxidation and protein synthesis are known to exist as different genetic polymorphisms within the population, and the different polymorphisms do result in meaningful differences in how people respond to a similar stress.
> 
> There is a good argument too that some people are genetically more or less able to be dedicated, or even to make choices about what is appropriate for their goals (low intelligence = silly choices/closedmindedness when it comes to advice). Genetic diversity exists and is part of the evolutionary force that has made us human, and essential to how that works is variation of response to a whole range of external factors within a single species... and yes, since this affects everything else, surely it affects bodybuilding too.
> 
> That said, I think unless someone suffers severe dysfunction and has a lot of physical problems from birth, pretty much everyone with enough desire, opportunity and a sensible approach could build a pretty decent healthy body. Different people may have a different optimal approach however.
> 
> Is arguable that the natural human state is much healthier as an average than the average people accept in the modern world we live in of unhealthy diets, over stressed lifestyles, and limited exercise, and that if we all still lived as we evolved then we'd all be closer to looking fit and healthy anyway.
> 
> In short I think that genetic variation definitely means that some people would find something like bodybuilding easier than others, but that all people can look decent even if it takes different lengths of time and greater/lesser effort for different people. Developing an olympian level physique however is not within the reach of everyone IMO, even with the PEDs factored in. I'll also repeat again that due to genetic diversity, the optimal approach for one person may not necessarily be the optimal approach for another person with different genetics.


Nice, in total agreement....only one problem though...where's your backup study? :lol:


----------



## Fatstuff

mixerD1 said:


> Nice, in total agreement....only one problem though...where's your backup study? :lol:


Awaits flurry of scientific studies from team dirtlever


----------



## comfla

mixerD1 said:


> Genetics is everything...100%.


yep...


----------



## Marshan

Fatstuff said:


> Awaits flurry of scientific studies from team dirtlever


Fine by me...proves me right. I wondered if Id call him in but had a feleing hed pick it up himself.


----------



## luther1

Harold marillier was commonly known to have [email protected] genetics but still got a pro card. This is why so many people use him as a coach because he overcame poor genetics so people think he can do the same for them


----------



## Breda

dtlv said:


> Purely from the point of view of clinical trials where newbs are put on similar diets and given identical training routines and are coached to exert the same level of effort as much as is possible there are obvious differences between how quickly different individuals respond - the range is always quite wide.
> 
> Many physiological factors relevant to bodybuilding do vary between individuals - muscle fiber type distribution, androgen receptor density, insulin sensitivity, physical characteristics that affect strength/leverage such as differing positions of muscle insertions... also many of the enzymes that regulate pathways that control things as diverse as substrate oxidation and protein synthesis are known to exist as different genetic polymorphisms within the population, and the different polymorphisms do result in meaningful differences in how people respond to a similar stress.
> 
> There is a good argument too that some people are genetically more or less able to be dedicated, or even to make choices about what is appropriate for their goals (low intelligence = silly choices/closedmindedness when it comes to advice). Genetic diversity exists and is part of the evolutionary force that has made us human, and essential to how that works is variation of response to a whole range of external factors within a single species... and yes, since this affects everything else, surely it affects bodybuilding too.
> 
> That said, I think unless someone suffers severe dysfunction and has a lot of physical problems from birth, pretty much everyone with enough desire, opportunity and a sensible approach could build a pretty decent healthy body. Different people may have a different optimal approach however.
> 
> Is arguable that the natural human state is much healthier as an average than the average people accept in the modern world we live in of unhealthy diets, over stressed lifestyles, and limited exercise, and that if we all still lived as we evolved then we'd all be closer to looking fit and healthy anyway.
> 
> In short I think that genetic variation definitely means that some people would find something like bodybuilding easier than others, but that all people can look decent even if it takes different lengths of time and greater/lesser effort for different people. Developing an olympian level physique however is not within the reach of everyone IMO, even with the PEDs factored in. I'll also repeat again that due to genetic diversity, the optimal approach for one person may not necessarily be the optimal approach for another person with different genetics.


You would have saved yourself alot of time if you wuda quoted my post and put ^^^^^^ this


----------



## Ginger Ben

dtlv said:


> *Purely from the point of view of clinical trials* where newbs are put on similar diets and given identical training routines and are coached to exert the same level of effort as much as is possible there are obvious differences between how quickly different individuals respond - the range is always quite wide.
> 
> Many physiological factors relevant to bodybuilding do vary between individuals - muscle fiber type distribution, androgen receptor density, insulin sensitivity, physical characteristics that affect strength/leverage such as differing positions of muscle insertions... also many of the enzymes that regulate pathways that control things as diverse as substrate oxidation and protein synthesis are known to exist as different genetic polymorphisms within the population, and the different polymorphisms do result in meaningful differences in how people respond to a similar stress.
> 
> *There is a good argument too* that some people are genetically more or less able to be dedicated, or even to make choices about what is appropriate for their goals (low intelligence = silly choices/closedmindedness when it comes to advice). Genetic diversity exists and is part of the evolutionary force that has made us human, and essential to how that works is variation of response to a whole range of external factors within a single species... and yes, since this affects everything else, surely it affects bodybuilding too.
> 
> *That said, I think* unless someone suffers severe dysfunction and has a lot of physical problems from birth, pretty much everyone with enough desire, opportunity and a sensible approach could build a pretty decent healthy body. Different people may have a different optimal approach however.
> 
> *Is arguable that* the natural human state is much healthier as an average than the average people accept in the modern world we live in of unhealthy diets, over stressed lifestyles, and limited exercise, and that if we all still lived as we evolved then we'd all be closer to looking fit and healthy anyway.
> 
> *In short I think that* genetic variation definitely means that some people would find something like bodybuilding easier than others, but that all people can look decent even if it takes different lengths of time and greater/lesser effort for different people. Developing an olympian level physique however is not within the reach of everyone IMO, even with the PEDs factored in. I'll also repeat again that due to genetic diversity, the optimal approach for one person may not necessarily be the optimal approach for another person with different genetics.





mixerD1 said:


> Nice, in total agreement....only one problem though...where's your backup study? :lol:


You'll note the use of the bold words.... :lol:


----------



## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> You'll note the use of the bold words.... :lol:


Sorry again Ben...but everything DTLV has written here points towards me being right.


----------



## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Sorry again Ben...but everything DTLV has written here points towards me being right.


You've spectacularly missed my point but never mind...


----------



## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> You've spectacularly missed my point but never mind...


That the bold letters are sciencey looking....nope...just didn't find it funny.


----------



## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> That the bold letters are sciencey looking....nope...just didn't find it funny.


Oh god....no that DTLV makes it clear by the choice of his words (that I put in bold) that he is expressing his opinion. He is not stating things as fact...

It was a light hearted comment based on the similarly light hearted comment you made about him needing to back up his post with studies and our previous exchange.

However it was wasted


----------



## Heath

Wow it's like an argument at knitting club in here!


----------



## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> Oh god....no that DTLV makes it clear by the choice of his words (that I put in bold) that he is expressing his opinion. He is not stating things as fact...
> 
> It was a light hearted comment based on the similarly light hearted comment you made about him needing to back up his post with studies and our previous exchange.
> 
> However it was wasted


Myself and DTLV have exchanged opinions on how critical genetics can be in most things in the past. So he doesn't actually need to post anything for me to know he's right. You weren't to know this of course.


----------



## essexboy

Look out you window.If your lucky enough to have a view of trees, you will notice something.Despite them all being the same species, the same age and subjected to the same enviroment, one will be bigger than all the others.

Arthur Jones, summed it up best in his book.My first 50 years in the Iron Game." A true mesomorph, will look like hes spent ten years in the gym,despite it being only 6 months.A true ectomorph will look like hes only spent 6 months in the gym despite being there for 10 years"

We all exist on a huge bell curve of natural abilties and traits.Some are required to excel at different endevours.I had a guitar lesson this morning.Watching my tutor, a gifted, amazing player inspires me, but I realise im never going to reach his level.

We heap praise on those that achieve,and scorn those that dont.In both cases, its not down to the individual.Achievement to a high level in any arena is defined by birth.

Not everyone can have x size arms, acheive enough leaness to see visible abdominal muscles, or play guitar like SRV.

As Mike Mentzer was replied, when asked how he built such an amazing physique," Im smart, I chose the right parents"


----------



## Heath

I remember reading Dorian Yates saying he regarded himself as having much worse genetics than his competition.

Don't let things like this hold you back..


----------



## BOSS

mixerD1 said:


> ...but everything DTLV has written here points towards me being right.


It must get annoying, always being right


----------



## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Myself and DTLV have exchanged opinions on how critical genetics can be in most things in the past. So he doesn't actually need to post anything for me to know he's right. You weren't to know this of course.


I give up


----------



## SCOOT123

I think genetics is a ****y excuse for lazy ar*e w4nk3r5


----------



## Breda

mixerD1 said:


> Myself and DTLV have exchanged opinions on how critical genetics can be in most things in the past. So he doesn't actually need to post anything for me to know he's right. You weren't to know this of course.


I like you but


----------



## Heath

Breda said:


> I like you but


cringed when I read it!


----------



## Marshan

Ginger Ben said:


> I give up


Bout f**kin time.


----------



## Heath

mixerD1 said:


> Myself and DTLV have exchanged opinions on how critical genetics can be in most things in the past. So he doesn't actually need to post anything for me to know he's right. You weren't to know this of course.


Sorry but...


----------



## Marshan

MutantX said:


> Sorry but...


Cutting...on 5 different compounds 3 times a week...GFY. If you dont like the thread noone put a gun to yer head.


----------



## Heath

mixerD1 said:


> Cutting...on 5 different compounds 3 times a week...GFY. If you dont like the thread noone put a gun to yer head.


Reps to whoever deciphers that for me lol


----------



## Marshan

Im cutting and prepping, on 5 different compounds 3 times a week so go fukk yourself. With yer funny ''youre gay'' picture..haha, yer hilarious, whatta guy.

**I want my reps.


----------



## Heath

mixerD1 said:


> Im cutting and prepping, on 5 different compounds 3 times a week so go fukk yourself. With yer funny ''youre gay'' picture..haha, yer hilarious, whatta guy.
> 
> **I want my reps.


Your acting more like your in PCT


----------



## Ginger Ben

mixerD1 said:


> Bout f**kin time.


Only because conversing with you is impossibly difficult due to your pig headed arrogance


----------



## Marshan

MutantX said:


> Your acting more like your in PCT


Jesus, if its as bad as dieting Im never doing PCT so.


----------



## Fatstuff

mixerD1 said:


> Im cutting and prepping, on 5 different compounds 3 times a week so go fukk yourself. With yer funny ''youre gay'' picture..haha, yer hilarious, whatta guy.
> 
> **I want my reps.


I read GFY as 'good for you'

I must be in an optimistic mood


----------



## Talaria

mixerD1 said:


> I am losing weight, I am on 5 different compounds exercises 3 times a week with...*Gifts For You.* If you dont like the thread no one is putting a gun to your head. P.S. I :wub: you





MutantX said:


> Reps to whoever deciphers that for me lol


Done


----------



## Marshan

MutantX said:


> Your acting more like your in PCT


Ive been on a thread with nearly everyone on it saying Im wrong, and getting stroppy...then DTLV comes along and says Im not wrong. He knows his stuff, no question about that...as soon as he posted, not a word was said by anyone to say he was wrong. What am I gonna say? So its like Im on PCT? I like you too Breda..cheers dude.


----------



## Heath

mixerD1 said:


> Ive been on a thread with nearly everyone on it saying Im wrong, and getting stroppy...then DTLV comes along and says Im not wrong. He knows his stuff, no question about that...as soon as he posted, not a word was said by anyone to say he was wrong. What am I gonna say? So its like Im on PCT? I like you too Breda..cheers dude.


Whatever your on is giving some major paranoia I fear..


----------



## kefka

Genetics mean a lot when it comes to bodybuilding. Which its why its stupid that a lot of guys blindly follow the advice of a guy thats bigger than them...without taking into account their genetics.

example: guy A) who starts off with crappy 12 inch calves and trains his **** off to get them to 17 inches and guy ( B) who has 17 inches calves before he even starts training them and gets them to 18 inches... who has more experience and likely the better routine when it comes to calve training? Guy A! but many guys will stupidly illogically take the advice of guy B instead -_-


----------



## Marshan

Fear not MutantX...Im not para, Im hungry and contrary towards people. Particularly when Im being told Im wrong about something I know Im not wrong about. I dont do the tail between legs and slink away like a slapped dog thing either. And Im not gay. :001_tt2:


----------



## essexboy

mixerD1 said:


> Ive been on a thread with nearly everyone on it saying Im wrong, and getting stroppy...then DTLV comes along and says Im not wrong. He knows his stuff, no question about that...as soon as he posted, not a word was said by anyone to say he was wrong. What am I gonna say? So its like Im on PCT? I like you too Breda..cheers dude.


I Agree with you.


----------



## Heath

mixerD1 said:


> Fear not MutantX...Im not para, Im hungry and contrary towards people. Particularly when Im being told Im wrong about something I know Im not wrong about. I dont do the tail between legs and slink away like a slapped dog thing either. And Im not gay. :001_tt2:


Like most things with BB its not all black and white.

So many grey areas which is why their are so many different opinions on every single aspect.

I'd say most agreed with you on this but don't want noobs getting the wrong idea and blaming genetics before they have been at it for 5-10 years to find out what their genetics are like.


----------



## Sambuca

MutantX said:


> Like most things with BB its not all black and white.
> 
> So many grey areas which is why their are so many different opinions on every single aspect.
> 
> I'd say most agreed with you on this but don't want noobs getting the wrong idea and blaming genetics before they have been at it for 5-10 years to find out what their genetics are like.


fk genetics smash some tren in


----------



## essexboy

ewen said:


> Its bs to a degree , put the effort in and you can be ripped/massive , drugs and lifestyle can help and hinder .
> 
> *Ifbb pros are not born pros* they become pro through effort beyond that that we give having said that* it does depend on the ratio of muscle fibers we are born with* .


Your contradicting yourself Uwen.


----------



## MRSTRONG

essexboy said:


> Your contradicting yourself Uwen.


Lol yes I know however some weedy guy that never trains his entire life could have all the right fibers to be the best but something in him has to want to aspire to be a champ .


----------



## Mingster

I've known plenty of lazy [email protected] who soon graft like Trojans when given a little 'encouragement' to do so. Doesn't say much for lazy genes imo...


----------



## dtlv

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT :gun_bandana: :2guns: h34r: :death: :lol:

Actually no, make up and be nice - just a disagreement of opinion.



Ginger Ben said:


> Oh god....no that DTLV makes it clear by the choice of his words (that I put in bold) that he is expressing his opinion. He is not stating things as fact...


Yes you are right - the words you highlighted were not there by accident... when making a scientific post I am only ever offering my opinion based upon the (limited) data I have read and analysed by my (also limited) little brain... all good scientific argument is based upon this view, stressing it is ultimately nothing more than a (hopefully) educated opinion based on weighing up different sources of evidence. Such opinions also should be open to change as new evidence of better techniques of analysis arise and reveal new things.

In respect of this particular discussion, I do think there is a lot of evidence to suggest genetic factors play an important role - I can come back later and post studies if people wish.

Whatever individual differences do exist though, in one sense I think they are important but in another sense I think they are not.

They are important in the sense that some genetic variations will mean that there is not one single optimum approach for everyone, and some people will respond better to different diets or training protocols than others. This is important for it should lead people to experiment, find what works for them, and not be stuck in the idea that one particular approach is right for all. It should also lead to reasonable expectations about what each person can achieve.

It is however also unimportant because comparing oneself to others is often a distraction. We only each have the cards we are dealt, and cannot change them for others. The most important thing each person has to do if they really want to bodybuild seriously is exactly the same for everyone - train and diet as consistently and as intelligently as they can. This no different for the genetic elite or the guy with almost no advantages at all.

I think discussions about genetics are interesting from a scientific viewpoint, and my nerdy side loves them... but they mustn't distract from the main thing which is that we have to always do the best we can with whatever we have to work with. That is the most important message of all I think.


----------



## Skye666

mixerD1 said:


> My rule of thumb for a long time has been this...if you look at someone, man or woman, and ask yourself if theyve used anything, then they more than likely have. It's even more obvious with women than men. It's true, dedication in the gym means a lot (decication in the gym is also determined by genetics), but if the genetics aren't right to start with it's an uphill battle all the way. And for a skinny person on cal. deficit it's easier to get big than a person overweight trying to cut...again genetics. No matter which way you dice it up...it's genetics all the way. I have written here in the past that Dorian is quoted as saying that he had to work harder than people with better genetics to get the prizes....I dont believe that anymore...Dorian had great genetics (probably better than even he was aware of or would admit to) and as a result, he got the prizes. The hard work just cemented it for him. Don't forget, his attitude to training was predetermined genetically as well.


I disagree..I don't think it's easier for a skinny person to get bigger its just as hard as for a fat person to get their weight down. Genetics play a role it's not 100% though and attitudes are not genetic! Their is a whole set of variables that go with this subject IMO.


----------



## Marshan

Skye666 said:


> I disagree..I don't think it's easier for a skinny person to get bigger its just as hard as for a fat person to get their weight down. Genetics play a role it's not 100% though and attitudes are not genetic! Their is a whole set of variables that go with this subject IMO.


In general with AAS I think it's easier for a lean/small person to get big than it is for a fat person to lose weight. It's diet that does the actual/real work with AAS speeding up or even at times hindering the process. We're going into the whole nature versus nurture thing again and for me...once a day is enough.


----------



## ducky699

Ive been thinking about this a lot recently. I know a guy who eats crap all day, trains twice a week yet looks amazing. i train hardeat hard, dont go on nights out to get sleep etc and dont look half as good.

I also think people have good genetics with there arms and 6pack. Some people have 'wonky' abs and some 8 pack


----------



## L11

Cant believe i missed such an epic thread, definitely reading this from start to finish when i get home.. As far as my actual view, yes i believe genetics make a difference to your appearance, but i think its ridiculously over-stated and makes up quite a small part of your potential. People use it an excuse because they haven't put enough effort in. For example, i used to blame genetics for my calves, but to be honest, i just don't train them hard enough.


----------



## Breda

L11 said:


> Cant believe i missed such an epic thread, definitely reading this from start to finish when i get home.. As far as my actual view, yes i believe genetics make a difference to your appearance, but i think its ridiculously over-stated and makes up quite a small part of your potential. People use it an excuse because they haven't put enough effort in. For example, i used to blame genetics for my calves, but to be honest, i just don't train them hard enough.


Thats exactly what I said


----------



## oldskoolcool

Amazing genetics LOL is the ability to withstand extreme stress and er mega doses of many things for a very long time without becoming ill etc and having it effect your life/training.


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## blackbeard

My wives family have awesome genetics, she has a huge wide back, I won't post a pic as she thinks it's not feminine. Here is a picture of her brother dwarfing me at 120kg, he DOESN'T train and he's not the biggest member of the family


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## Fatstuff

Breda said:


> Thats exactly what I said


A coincidence??? I think not :rolleye: lol


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## Breda

Fatstuff said:


> A coincidence??? I think not :rolleye: lol


Pre tell Stanley pre tell


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## Breda

blackbeard said:


> My wives family have awesome genetics, she has a huge wide back, I won't post a pic as she thinks it's not feminine. Here is a picture of her brother dwarfing me at 120kg, he DOESN'T train and he's not the biggest member of the family
> View attachment 135640


Its all that fufu and jaloff them freshies grow up on... get involved


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## blackbeard

Breda said:


> Its all that fufu and jaloff them freshies grow up on... get involved


My wife used to cook mountains of the stuff, it just made me fat, that fufu, Nigerians call it gari,, just sits in my belly like a stone for hours.Had to buy her smaller pots, I'm sure she was plying me with about 8000 calories at every meal.

And the meat they eat!! They dissect a cow and eat every last bit including the skin.


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## Breda

blackbeard said:


> My wife used to cook mountains of the stuff, it just made me fat, that fufu, Nigerians call it gari,, just sits in my belly like a stone for hours.Had to buy her smaller pots, I'm sure she was plying me with about 8000 calories at every meal.
> 
> And the meat they eat!! They dissect a cow and eat every last bit including the skin.


Mate I dont have a clue what's in the stuff but I blame that maize for makin beasts out of them.

Nuthin goes to waste round and africans table the bones they use to put in their nose and lips as jewellery :lol"


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## blackbeard

Breda said:


> Mate I dont have a clue what's in the stuff but I blame that maize for makin beasts out of them.
> 
> Nuthin goes to waste round and africans table the bones they use to put in their nose and lips as jewellery :lol"


My mrs. has businesses back in Nigeria and is there most of the time.When I was prepping for the British last year I sent her a picture of my plain 'ole chicken meal on whatsapp.

She was cooking chicken too and sent this picture of her dinner.


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## Breda

blackbeard said:


> My mrs. has businesses back in Nigeria and is there most of the time.When I was prepping for the British last year I sent her a picture of my plain 'ole chicken meal on whatsapp.
> 
> She was cooking chicken too and sent this picture of her dinner.
> View attachment 135644


Thats disgustin man. I bet she made it into a half decent dish but you couldn't pay me enough to eat it I'd rather starve :lol:


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## blackbeard

Breda said:


> Thats disgustin man. I bet she made it into a half decent dish but you couldn't pay me enough to eat it I'd rather starve :lol:


I was out there at Easter, we were buying yams at a roadside market and the fella offered me bush meat, most of the animals in his box looked like funny rats called grasscutter but pride of place was a badger it was the size of a rottweiler. How the hell do you cook that


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