# Why won't my arms grow?



## bigbob33

I've been lifting for a couple of years properly now and on and off for 10 years plus before that!

My strenth has come on well in that time but no matter what I can't seem to get my arms over 17" 

Any advice would be greatfully recieved otherwise I'm just going to try siteing the stubbourn bloody things...


----------



## WillOdling

What do you do for arms?


----------



## bigbob33

I've tried allsorts mate, always include bb curls and weighted dips no matter what! I've tried high volume, low volume heavy weights, supersets, drop sets the bloody lot.

Best I seem to achieve is a good pump and that's about all


----------



## essexboy

I could tell you but its gonna be a long post, and most likely you wont accept/believe it.ive also got a routine that wil get them growing.


----------



## WillOdling

I find pullups are a killer for my arms and nothing seems to hit my biceps as well as they do.

Not sure what to suggest really? Theres always synthol :lol:


----------



## WillOdling

essexboy said:


> I could tell you but its gonna be a long post, and most likely you wont accept/believe it.ive also got a routine that wil get them growing.


Go for it :thumb:


----------



## bigbob33

\ said:


> I could tell you but its gonna be a long post, and most likely you wont accept/believe it.ive also got a routine that wil get them growing.


I've come to the point where I'm willing to try anything mate, I'd love to hear what you've got to say


----------



## bigbob33

\ said:


> I find pullups are a killer for my arms and nothing seems to hit my biceps as well as they do.
> 
> Not sure what to suggest really? Theres always synthol :lol:


I do pull ups every back session.....

I think I'd rather site gear than use synthol tbh :lol:


----------



## gearchange

bigbob33 said:


> I've come to the point where I'm willing to try anything mate, I'd love to hear what you've got to say


Synthol


----------



## essexboy

bigbob33 said:


> I've come to the point where I'm willing to try anything mate, I'd love to hear what you've got to say


ok.im going take the time as im feeling in a good mood today.firstly ill say that ive done this.It works(1/2inch growth in 2 weeks)ive got less than average bicep length, but slightly aboveaverage tricep length, so my genes are about average.its also very hard.you wont appreciate how hard until you try it.

there is only three reasons why your arms arent growing,

1)youve maxed your genetic pontential.(unlikely)

2) your not traning hard enough(very likley)

3) your system is not recovering(likely)

Firstly take a week off.(yeah i know) but at least 4 days, to try and let your body recover.

your gonna be training twice a week.thats two full body w/o.the focus will be on yuor arms,so you must limit the rest of your w/o.train legs, but limit your chest back etc to isolation movements, we want to preserve the arms, strength for the specialisation, not destroy them with heavy presse etc.

the first movemnet is a one rep chin.shoulder width underhand grip.

you are gonna take 30 seconds to slowly inch you way up to the top.pause for 2/3secs then 30 seconds to slowly lower yuorself.you will need a partner with a watch who can call out the times, 5 , 10 15 etc.no swinging cheating PERFECT FORM.when you hit bottom pick up a barbell immediately!

and curl for 8/10 reps to failure.again perfect form, when you cant move the bar, have your partner, strip a few plates and keep going.this will fry your biceps like never before.Have a few minutes rest, then we do dips with exactly the same protocol.(start at the bottom) 30 seconds up then 30 down.immidately followed by a tricep movement,pressdowns are good.make sure you keep the form strict, fail then drop weight then fail gain.you only get one shot at it, so you must make it count.you cant make up for hardwork by doing it again.twice a week, for a month, aim to add 5 seconds to the raising/lowering every workout.keep detailed records,and work till you want to die.report back in a month.this is a tried and tested protocol used for 30 plus years at nautilus.It rarely fails, if executed correctly.


----------



## bigbob33

I'll give it a go mate and get back to you! Cheers buddy


----------



## bigbear21

i followed something similar to that years ago i got it out of a book massive in 10 weeks or something like that completely changed my approach to arm training


----------



## yoohoo1

supersets work well for my biceps


----------



## bigbob33

\ said:


> i followed something similar to that years ago i got it out of a book massive in 10 weeks or something like that completely changed my approach to arm training


So you rate it as well?

I'm thinking that it'll probably damage more muscle fibres therefore leading to more growth, but I'm not sure if that's right......

As I said I'll give it a go as nothing else has done a lot recently


----------



## WRT

Cable preachers using FST7 for bi's worked wonders for mine, for tri's I just rely on heavy pressing mainly finished with some p1ssy skull crushers/cable extensions. Sometimes when I feel like it I do cable preachers supersetted with bar curls, 4 sets of each with no rest inbetween.


----------



## bigbear21

bigbob33 said:


> So you rate it as well?
> 
> I'm thinking that it'll probably damage more muscle fibres therefore leading to more growth, but I'm not sure if that's right......
> 
> As I said I'll give it a go as nothing else has done a lot recently


i adapted it after a while the basic lesson was that most people do far to much work on their arms and low volume to maximum failure is the best approach an di must admit i agree


----------



## ricdan

bigbob33 said:


> I'll give it a go mate and get back to you! Cheers buddy


Bigbob,

Please reply to this thread and let us know how you get on.

Really interested to hear your results.

Hope it works for you :thumbup1:

Subbed


----------



## bigbob33

It's obvious to me :lol:


----------



## little_jm

Ive been getting into HIT lately and have been looking for a good arm workout which incorporates the principles of hit so i gave the workout essexboy advised a go earlier today. I do admit i did my chest workout before hand (mike mentzers pec dec then incline machine bench), i felt well rested so it didnt effect my arm workout too badly although it is definitely preferable to not do this id say.

All in all, it was a great workout, possibly the best ive had. As essexboy said, hard to time the pullup without a partner, but i just about managed it. Make sure when you go onto the barbell curl, or the tricep pushdown to keep good, slow and controlled form, i personally went with 4 seconds up, 4 down, as mike menzter advises, all to easy after such a hard pull up/dip to use momentum to help lift the weight, but as mentzer says, this is an outside force which should be eliminated. You really have to push yourself with this workout, get that extra rep or two that with a normal workout youd think you didnt have in you, because as essexboy said, you only have one shot at it and you dont want to leave thinking you could have done that bit more! You may leave, or think before hand , wow ive only spent/only going to do 20minute in the gym, surely I havent done enough, but if you do it properly, you definitely have!

ill keep you updated with how i get on!

Edit: One more piece of advice, do this when your gym is quiet, you dont want to be waiting for stuff half way through this!


----------



## Prodiver

essexboy said:


> ok.im going take the time as im feeling in a good mood today.firstly ill say that ive done this.It works(1/2inch growth in 2 weeks)ive got less than average bicep length, but slightly aboveaverage tricep length, so my genes are about average.its also very hard.you wont appreciate how hard until you try it.
> 
> there is only three reasons why your arms arent growing,
> 
> 1)youve maxed your genetic pontential.(unlikely)
> 
> 2) your not traning hard enough(very likley)
> 
> 3) your system is not recovering(likely)
> 
> Firstly take a week off.(yeah i know) but at least 4 days, to try and let your body recover.
> 
> your gonna be training twice a week.thats two full body w/o.the focus will be on yuor arms,so you must limit the rest of your w/o.train legs, but limit your chest back etc to isolation movements, we want to preserve the arms, strength for the specialisation, not destroy them with heavy presse etc.
> 
> the first movemnet is a one rep chin.shoulder width underhand grip.
> 
> *you are gonna take 30 seconds to slowly inch you way up to the top.pause for 2/3secs then 30 seconds to slowly lower yuorself.y*ou will need a partner with a watch who can call out the times, 5 , 10 15 etc.*no swinging cheating PERFECT FORM*.when you hit bottom pick up a barbell immediately!
> 
> and curl for 8/10 reps to failure.again perfect form, when you cant move the bar, have your partner, strip a few plates and keep going.this will fry your biceps like never before.Have a few minutes rest, then we do dips with exactly the same protocol.(start at the bottom) *30 seconds up then 30 down*.immidately followed by a tricep movement,pressdowns are good.make sure you keep the form strict, fail then drop weight then fail gain.you only get one shot at it, so you must make it count.you cant make up for hardwork by doing it again.twice a week, for a month, *aim to add 5 seconds to the raising/lowering every workout*.keep detailed records,and work till you want to die.report back in a month.this is a tried and tested protocol used for 30 plus years at nautilus.It rarely fails, if executed correctly.


Take note, guys, how slow, strict and intense the reps are! :thumb:

All reps should be like this! One exercise done correctly is worth 10 done wrongly!


----------



## little_jm

Prodiver said:


> Take note, guys, how slow, strict and intense the reps are! :thumb:
> 
> All reps should be like this! One exercise done correctly is worth 10 done wrongly!


Couldnt agree more, momentum isnt lifting!


----------



## bigbob33

Following this tommorrow! The only thing I'm struggling with is what exercise to do for my back without using my arms? Only thing I could think of is deads....


----------



## Prodiver

bigbob33 said:


> Following this tommorrow! The only thing I'm struggling with is what exercise to do for my back without using my arms? Only thing I could think of is deads....


Well see what essex thinks, but doing biceps on back day, and triceps on chest day, pre-exhasting them to a degree, is normally OK.


----------



## little_jm

Do you have access to a back pull over machine?

As seen in this video at 1min 30


----------



## bigbob33

\ said:


> Do you have access to a back pull over machine?
> 
> As seen in this video at 1min 30


They've got one but it's too small for me to fit in :lol:


----------



## little_jm

haha, fairplay! wish i was in the same boat!

Im sure there are people far better qualified then me to answer the back question who might have ideas? I think prodiver is right that exhausting the arms to an extent is ok, just make sure you have adequate rest for your hit arm day so you can get the most you can out of your arms


----------



## bigbear21

if you use your hands as hooks and really focus on pulling from the elbow with practice you can eliminate alot of arm usage in your back workouts


----------



## martin brown

There is also a very strong arguement that unless you have a very big back and forearms your biceps shouldnt be huge - unless they are genetically out of proportion.

The human body aint daft - and it often will not grow out of proportion in the main movement patterns.


----------



## bigbob33

Here's my current measurments

Chest 48"

Waist 32"

Forearms 15"

Arms 16 3/4". Around bi's and tri's

Neck 18"

Thighs 26"

Calves 17"

Maybe it's all in proportion..... Just my arms haven't improved for a long time!


----------



## big_jim_87

maybe you are geneticly suted to chess?


----------



## bigbob33

Nice mate! If I had the intelligence you could be right!


----------



## big_jim_87

i finde that heavy is best oh and the moste effective are the basics!

some sort of heavy bar curls and hammer curls heavy! train em in sets just like you would any other body part that has grown so for me my back has grown by heavy low rep warm ups with one working set of a rep range of 4-8 so thats how id train arms too give or take a rep or two. thats all you need right ther

oh i also find that i train arms a little slower on the neg portion of the rep not sure why just feels better


----------



## james12345

essexboy said:


> ok.im going take the time as im feeling in a good mood today.firstly ill say that ive done this.It works(1/2inch growth in 2 weeks)ive got less than average bicep length, but slightly aboveaverage tricep length, so my genes are about average.its also very hard.you wont appreciate how hard until you try it.
> 
> there is only three reasons why your arms arent growing,
> 
> 1)youve maxed your genetic pontential.(unlikely)
> 
> 2) your not traning hard enough(very likley)
> 
> 3) your system is not recovering(likely)
> 
> Firstly take a week off.(yeah i know) but at least 4 days, to try and let your body recover.
> 
> your gonna be training twice a week.thats two full body w/o.the focus will be on yuor arms,so you must limit the rest of your w/o.train legs, but limit your chest back etc to isolation movements, we want to preserve the arms, strength for the specialisation, not destroy them with heavy presse etc.
> 
> the first movemnet is a one rep chin.shoulder width underhand grip.
> 
> you are gonna take 30 seconds to slowly inch you way up to the top.pause for 2/3secs then 30 seconds to slowly lower yuorself.you will need a partner with a watch who can call out the times, 5 , 10 15 etc.no swinging cheating PERFECT FORM.when you hit bottom pick up a barbell immediately!
> 
> and curl for 8/10 reps to failure.again perfect form, when you cant move the bar, have your partner, strip a few plates and keep going.this will fry your biceps like never before.Have a few minutes rest, then we do dips with exactly the same protocol.(start at the bottom) 30 seconds up then 30 down.immidately followed by a tricep movement,pressdowns are good.make sure you keep the form strict, fail then drop weight then fail gain.you only get one shot at it, so you must make it count.you cant make up for hardwork by doing it again.twice a week, for a month, aim to add 5 seconds to the raising/lowering every workout.keep detailed records,and work till you want to die.report back in a month.this is a tried and tested protocol used for 30 plus years at nautilus.It rarely fails, if executed correctly.


so 2 days a week? monday thursday, squats, dls, pullovers chest flies, db raises, then the arm workout twice a week?


----------



## boofstien

james12345 said:


> so 2 days a week? monday thursday, squats, dls, pullovers chest flies, db raises, then the arm workout twice a week?


No train twice a week total! The extra rest has a lot to do with the extra growth. Read ' the new hit by eliington darden' the workout is fully covered in there.


----------



## james12345

boofstien said:


> No train twice a week total! The extra rest has a lot to do with the extra growth. Read ' the new hit by eliington darden' the workout is fully covered in there.


yeah i got that i suggested monday and thursday as youd get most rest between days. not really interested in reading any books would rather try it for a bit then if it works look into the science of it.

So theres two full body workouts?


----------



## Barker

S'alright for some, im struggling to push 13"!!!


----------



## Gym-pig

I like this idea .

I love HIT but it does nothing for my arms . They need a lot of volume and especially time under tension . I use incline curls , cable curls , lying cable curls, preachers . Anything that keeps the tension on throughout the movement . Standard BB curls are something I rarely do and then only at the end of a workout

Ive tended to use 4 1 4 1 tempo but going to try this approach !!


----------



## boofstien

> yeah i got that i suggested monday and thursday as youd get most rest between days. not really interested in reading any books would rather try it for a bit then if it works look into the science of it.
> 
> So theres two full body workouts?


Its basically measure the arm cold, rest for a few days, 1 hard total body workout with emphasis on arms and then rest a few more and measure arms again. I will post up the full routeen for you tonight. It was in iron man in the late 70's early 80's I think (please correct me) and Arthur Jones garenteed anyone who tried it at his gym an extras 1/2 inch on their cold upper arm IN 1 WORKOURT or he would pay their expenses. He reported was successfull with everyone who followed the program.



Gym-pig said:


> I like this idea .
> 
> I love HIT but it does nothing for my arms . They need a lot of volume and especially time under tension . I use incline curls , cable curls , lying cable curls, preachers . Anything that keeps the tension on throughout the movement . Standard BB curls are something I rarely do and then only at the end of a workout
> 
> Ive tended to use 4 1 4 1 tempo but going to try this approach !!


The more I read the more I realise that everyones needs are different particularly with the hit vs volume. I only really respond to hit, others dont get on with it. There is certainly room for both. Most hitters deny that volume works and most volume trainers deny hit works but ultimatly its down to the individuals. A mixture of hit / volume would most likely lead to overtraining in all but the generically gifted . Fair play to all.

Clarence Bass in his book Challenge Yourself has a good writup discussing the pathways and growth mechanisms for volume and hit. In his optinion they stress the system to stimulate growth in different ways. The bottom line is both ways work but 1 will work best for you.

Anyone agree with me and CBass on that?

sorry about my spelling, I cant seem to get the spellcheck to work.


----------



## bigbob33

As I said previously I've tried volume work and get a great pump but no lasting results! I'll be doing this tommorrow as it was legs yesterday, I'm unsure if I can last 30 seconds on the up phase of the pull up though, I'll just try my best....


----------



## Heineken

boofstien said:


> Its basically measure the arm cold, rest for a few days, 1 hard total body workout with emphasis on arms and then rest a few more and measure arms again. I will post up the full routeen for you tonight. It was in iron man in the late 70's early 80's I think (please correct me) and Arthur Jones garenteed anyone who tried it at his gym an extras 1/2 inch on their cold upper arm IN 1 WORKOURT or he would pay their expenses. He reported was successfull with everyone who followed the program.


Growth isn't that rapid though, so what is it.. swelling?

Not knocking it mate just curious :thumbup1:


----------



## boofstien

Heineken said:


> Growth isn't that rapid though, so what is it.. swelling?
> 
> Not knocking it mate just curious :thumbup1:


Most likely due to glycogen and water driven to the muscles. Jones states that the arms were smaller the day after training. Not sure about the long term results or if any genuine hypertrophy occured, never did it mention in any of the literature on this experiment.


----------



## Heineken

So essentially you're taking time off of training the rest of your body, and instead training your arms twice a week for a temporary pump?

Essex what's your take on this?

It would be interesting to see this logged!


----------



## boofstien

Heineken said:


> So essentially you're taking time off of training the rest of your body, and instead training your arms twice a week for a temporary pump?
> 
> Essex what's your take on this?
> 
> It would be interesting to see this logged!


Not saying it was just a pump, just that the long term effects werent reported because of the nature of the experiment. they probably did return to something larger than before.

You are training only twice a week to allow the growth to take place given the higher intensity.

I am being cautious to avoid the usual HIT-bashing.


----------



## Prodiver

Another consideration:

Barbells and dumbells, good as they are, only exert their full weight at the mid point of a curl because of your arm angle vs. the vertical pull of gravity.

So the weight you can manage doesn't stress the biceps maximally at each end of the movement.

But biceps machines and cables can do this.

Try curling a t-bar from the lowest pully on a cable machine; stand back so that the cable rises at about 60º. This will ensure it exerts its force over the full range of movement. Lock your elbows into your sides, no heaving and arching your back. 3-5 slow, strict sets.


----------



## WRT

Barker said:


> S'alright for some, im struggling to push 13"!!!


Get food down your neck, could easily reach 15" in a few months.


----------



## Heineken

boofstien said:


> Not saying it was just a pump, just that the long term effects werent reported because of the nature of the experiment. they probably did return to something larger than before.
> 
> You are training only twice a week to allow the growth to take place given the higher intensity.
> 
> I am being cautious to avoid the usual HIT-bashing.


I'm not bashing you at all mate

I only referred to it as a 'temporary pump' because of what you said about the lack of evidence through prolonged use, and because you mentioned the arms returned to normal size the next day. I've had pump or 'fullness' that last's more than a day before but gradually it disappears as you'd think it would. I've also read about similar workouts that can produce the same kind of thing, curling a ridiculous amount throughout the entire day for like.. an extra inch. But it's not some miracle it's basic physiology.

Like I said previously, it would be interesting to see this logged for a couple of months for the purposes of real hypertrophy.. though the thought of 8 weeks of training just arms put's me to sleep :laugh:


----------



## boofstien

Heineken said:


> I'm not bashing you at all mate
> 
> I only referred to it as a 'temporary pump' because of what you said about the lack of evidence through prolonged use, and because you mentioned the arms returned to normal size the next day. I've had pump or 'fullness' that last's more than a day before but gradually it disappears as you'd think it would. I've also read about similar workouts that can produce the same kind of thing, curling a ridiculous amount throughout the entire day for like.. an extra inch. But it's not some miracle it's basic physiology.
> 
> Like I said previously, it would be interesting to see this logged for a couple of months for the purposes of real hypertrophy.. though the thought of 8 weeks of training just arms put's me to sleep :laugh:


Hi Mate,

not acusing anyone of bashing and fully get where you are comming from. A couple of missunderstandings i didnt make clear,

1.) its a total body workout but with arms being the main focus.

2.) The arms actually shrink the day after training but in a few days they are half inch bigger than the before measurment cold.

3.) its a 1 off not designed to be done as a regular routeen.

Thanks for the discussions guys

Boof


----------



## Smitch

I started a push pull routine about 6 weeks ago, i'm hoping that will kickstart some growth as i was working arms, shoulders, chest, back, legs on seperate days before.

I also went light for about a month but got bored and started going heavy again and noticed that my bench had gone up by 5kg immediately so a change in routine definitely helps!


----------



## bigbob33

\ said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> not acusing anyone of bashing and fully get where you are comming from. A couple of missunderstandings i didnt make clear,
> 
> 1.) its a total body workout but with arms being the main focus.
> 
> 2.) The arms actually shrink the day after training but in a few days they are half inch bigger than the before measurment cold.
> 
> 3.) its a 1 off not designed to be done as a regular routeen.
> 
> Thanks for the discussions guys
> 
> Boof


What sort of duration are we looking at? Just a couple of weeks, a month?


----------



## Dazzaemm2k7

bear in mind mate that if your diet isnt spot on then you wont be making the most amount of gains possible. Doesnt matter what workout you do, if your not eating correctly for your body then you wont be gaining anything ! Whats your diet like ? Are you meeting your macronutrient goals each day ? Do you even have macronutrient goals for each day or do u just eat as much as you can ? Diet is the most important part of the equation IMO.

Also remember that what works for someone might not work for you, also what works for you might not work for me etc. Same with diet. Find what amount of nutrients work well with your body and what diet works well with your body( eg high carb/med pro, med carb/high pro, high carb/high pro etc ). Learn your body and find out what works well for you 

Make sure your not just going through the motions and not flexing and squeezing hard. Always feel what your doing and take your time with it. Use really strict form and squeeze on every rep, as if your trying to get ur arms to explode. Mind muscle conecteeeeeonay


----------



## Dazzaemm2k7

Just gonna throw this up here, its up to you dude if u want to try it. Good arm workout that should get ur arms growing

Close grip flat bench press 3-4sets

Incline bench ez bar Skullcrushers 3sets

Weighted Bench Dips (two benchs paralell to each other and plates on your lap) 3 sets

Barbell Curls 3-4sets

Hammer Curls 3sets

Seated Alternate Dum Curls (with palms facing forward throughout) 3 sets

thats just a straight set workout but if that doesnt work try supersetting the first tricep exercise with the first bicep exercise and then the second tricep exercise with the second bicep exercise etc etc

(as far as reps go i dont really count reps, anywhere from 6-10-15-20 reps. I just go by how i feel)


----------



## Smitch

I think people neglect their tri's a lot too.

I've just bought a dipping belt, i LOVE weighted dips. :thumbup1:


----------



## Dazzaemm2k7

Smitch said:


> I think people neglect their tri's a lot too.
> 
> I've just bought a dipping belt, i LOVE weighted dips. :thumbup1:


i love them too but what the hell is that agonising pain you get in your collar bones after you finish your last rep ??

like seriously wtf !? completely agonising !! totally puts me off doing them 

weighted bench dips dont put any stress on my delts or shoulder gurdle, weighted parallel bar dips kill my collar bones though ? i'm not going way below parellel or anything ? just normal range of motion ? ah well :lol:


----------



## james12345

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_biggerarms_challenge;jsessionid=447C512DE56DD7D6F1A55891D1EBE468-he.hydra

Thats the 1 rep pullup dip thing


----------



## Heineken

Damn the TN site really f*cks with my eyes, I had to copy and paste that into Word :lol:


----------



## bigbob33

Just checked the link and that looks like exactly the same thing. They did another one 2 years later slightly modified and the gains were better!


----------

