# Most Overated Foods in Body Building



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

You see a lot of a diets thrown up on forums and a lot of them are extremely repetitive and boring. People constantly refer to these food, but I wonder how much thought they have actually put into why they are recommending them. Other than that they have seen other people recommend them.

Now just for clarity, all the foods I will list aren't bad foods. In fact. Most of them are very good. However they are no magic superfood and hopefully it will give you the motivation to search out other foods and flex those taste buds for a change

*
Sweet Potato*

*
*The lifting man's potato right? Well it's just a potato. A different type with a slightly different vitamin profile to it's demonised ****** brother and a lower GI, which actually equates very little in the grand scheme of things, especially when eaten with meat or protein source

*
Peanut Butter*

*
*Peanut butter has been part of lifting since the 70s. But why? Assuming its natural peanut butter and not the salt, sugar and oil enriched supermarket ones. It's just one type of nut (and not even one of the better ones for amino and nutrient profile) grounded down. So why is it always mentioned? Simply because it's cheap and versatile staple of American food. When BBing first took off in america, the guys used to tour the roads and PB is great calorie dense food that keeps in the car. Don't you find it funny that raw peanuts don't appear in many diets? (cue Oh ''Yeah'' moment)

*
EVOO*

*
*Now extra virgin olive oil tastes a lot better than olive oil. Especially in salads and dressing. It's prized in Italian cooking, but nutritionally, it's no different from virgin olive oil (which there is some debate whether there is often debate in food authorities whether it's fair to have distinctions between the two). In fact, all olive oil is pretty much the same if you are looking to pad out a shake with it.

*
Brown Rice*

*
*I always find it funny when you ask someone whats the difference between brown and white rice? Most don't know and if you don't, look it up. But nutritionally there is little to no difference between brown and white rice except a tiny bit of fiber. Certainly nothing of note that you shouldn't make a difference to your overall intake if you are eating enough greens (which you most definitely should be). Brown Rice can be a novel taste if unflavored, but with meat sauces, white rice is so much tastier. Admittedly this is subjective, but if you look at the Asian continent and their server culture. Billions of people can't be wrong.

*
Protein Shakes*

*
*I find it amazing when people complain about dairy and proceed foods and then put flavoured whey in their diet 3 times a day. Mental.

Whey is to meat, as pop tarts are to rice. Nothing awful, but nothing special except convenience.

There are plenty more, but just a few that came to mind


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I agree with all except the why, the key thing for me with whey is cost... No other whey I could afford that much protein!

Natty peanut butter can definitely f*ck off though.. I will say this in EVERY peanut butter thread but sunpat is 95% peanut, NINETY FIVE F*CKING PERCENT


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Whole heartedly agree with this post!! Reps when I get on pc!!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Whey is decent, cheap and convenient access to protein. It's fast food aminos!

However, they way (or should that be whey) they bang on about having one immediatey before AND after their workout, you'd think they were steroids


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Although shakes are handy


----------



## tony10 (Oct 15, 2009)

and you point is?


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Nout wrong with white potato

Crisp and dry ****es on evoo

White basmati has almost as much fibre

PB is ok in moderation along with other nut butters and even better the nuts themselves

Variety is key imo


----------



## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

i eats it all


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

What would you recommend as a daily diet?

Not being funny, but I think people recommend these foods as they are cheap, convenient and easy to get down, not because they are the be all and end all of diets. Is it just me who doesn't want to even use my tastebuds, especially when bulking pretty much means forcing food in so you feel sick 99% of the time. Taste is the last thing on my mind tbh.


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> What would you recommend as a daily diet?
> 
> Not being funny, but I think people recommend these foods as they are cheap, convenient and easy to get down, not because they are the be all and end all of diets. Is it just me who doesn't want to even use my tastebuds, especially when bulking pretty much means forcing food in so you feel sick 99% of the time. Taste is the last thing on my mind tbh.


That seems a shame to me, why should ur food be bland? Isn't it nice to enjoy what ur eating?


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Protein shakes are really hand and reasonably cheap. If I am bulking I eat 5 solid meals a day so its quite nice to have 3 shakes on top rather than bigger or more meals. I only eat evoo and peanut butter as it has loads of calories in it.


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> That seems a shame to me, why should ur food be bland? Isn't it nice to enjoy what ur eating?


mine is bland as I am too lazy to put effort into cooking decent food


----------



## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

Cottage cheese.

Fuxk all protein in it. Or anything foe that matter.


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Fatstuff said:


> That seems a shame to me, why should ur food be bland? Isn't it nice to enjoy what ur eating?


Yes when you want to savour your food. The nature of bb'ing is calorie content before taste IMO


----------



## Pablos888 (Aug 26, 2012)

Slightly off top but Tesco have 400g of Plain Cashew Nuts for £2 (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=258234702&sc_cmp=aff_1018132). Good for anyone stocking up - change from Peanut Butter anyway.


----------



## benno_2010 (Oct 8, 2010)

gotta enjoy my food - if it tastes **** then i ent eating it!


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

1. Coconut oil

2. Pre workout drinks

3. Vitargo

All overrated as fcuk imo...


----------



## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

You're wrong about white and brown rice.

There are significantly more quantities in vitamins in brown rice as opposed to white. Search for the condition Beri-Beri. You say as long as you eat enough greens you'll be ok. Well there's a reason they say eat as many different colours as possible.


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

onthebuild said:


> What would you recommend as a daily diet?
> 
> Not being funny, but I think people recommend these foods as they are cheap, convenient and easy to get down, not because they are the be all and end all of diets. Is it just me who doesn't want to even use my tastebuds, especially when bulking pretty much means forcing food in so you feel sick 99% of the time. Taste is the last thing on my mind tbh.


Fuk that if food taste like sh!te I'm not eatin it.

Surely you will be able and want to eat more food if it tastes good


----------



## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

I just eat what I like, most of which you listed haha but as for EVOO it's a better oil for dressings as its less processed but if you use it to cook with then it's all crap anyway. I understand where your coming from though


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Nice topic for controversy as every one will look to a) justify their fav foods and eating ideologies, and B) find a reason to say stuff they don't want to eat isn't necessary. :lol:

In my personal view it's not about isolated foods, its about nutrient balance of diet as a whole and how that relates to each persons specific needs, and in one circumstance or quantity a certain food may be really beneficial but in other circumstances or quantities not at all and may even be detrimental.

I also think there is a huge difference in respect of how the body responds long term comparing ok diets with poor diets, good diets and excellent diets - but in the short term such differences are not obvious and so people often don't see them and are too quick to dismiss the longer term effects of small dietary changes.


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Peanuts are a part of my diet lol

I'm lazy as fu*c*k so they come in handy


----------



## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

vtec_yo said:


> Cottage cheese.
> 
> Fuxk all protein in it. Or anything foe that matter.


Yea, but it's proper easy to polish off a 500g tub, and that's 50g protein right there


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Breda said:


> Fuk that if food taste like sh!te I'm not eatin it.
> 
> Surely you will be able and want to eat more food if it tastes good


Don't get me wrong I don't ENJOY bad tasting food, or actively seek it out. I just see taste as secondary, and would rather eat boring chicken and rice everyday if it fits my macros and budget than not meet my macros or spend too much on food just for a bit of taste.

That's what cheat meals etc are for IMO


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

onthebuild said:


> What would you recommend as a daily diet?
> 
> Not being funny, but I think people recommend these foods as they are cheap, convenient and easy to get down, not because they are the be all and end all of diets. Is it just me who doesn't want to even use my tastebuds, especially when bulking pretty much means forcing food in so you feel sick 99% of the time. Taste is the last thing on my mind tbh.


F*CK THAT.

I'm a decent cook so I love everything that I eat.


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Eating food is one of life's great pleasures and I eat wholesome, tasty food and lots of it.


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

onthebuild said:


> Don't get me wrong I don't ENJOY bad tasting food, or actively seek it out. I just see taste as secondary, and would rather eat boring chicken and rice everyday if it fits my macros and budget than not meet my macros or spend too much on food just for a bit of taste.
> 
> That's what cheat meals etc are for IMO


Maybe its jus the way I been brought up but bland food don't happen cos you will get mocked for it... Differently

I get what you sayin mate but with the quantities of food you eat you may as well enjoy it


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Breda said:


> Maybe its jus the way I been brought up but bland food don't happen cos you will get mocked for it... Differently
> 
> I get what you sayin mate but with the quantities of food you eat you may as well enjoy it


Its probably more of a cost thing for me. I know steak is more expensive than chicken, so I automatically prefer the taste of steak, but cant afford it every meal :lol:

So I'm stuck with chicken, and that makes me bored of it very easily!


----------



## Breda (May 2, 2011)

onthebuild said:


> Its probably more of a cost thing for me. I know steak is more expensive than chicken, so I automatically prefer the taste of steak, but cant afford it every meal :lol:
> 
> So I'm stuck with chicken, and that makes me bored of it very easily!


That's y you should throw some flavour on it make it taste different every time and you won't get bored so kwik... Or find a woman to cook for u


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Breda said:


> That's y you should throw some flavour on it make it taste different every time and you won't get bored so kwik... *Or find a woman to cook for u*


Cant fault your logic :lol:


----------



## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

I eat brown rice because it has 3 times more carbohydrates.

I always wondered about this though. There's only 3.5g fibre per 100g but some people say white rice and brown rice have similar amounts of carbohydrates - but it's not coming from fiber so must be starch/sugar. I ask, how? It says on the packet even that it b/rice has about 70-75% carbs and w/rice 20-25%...

This is why I eat brown rice, because if I were to eat white rice I'd be eating a whole lot more for the same amount of carbohydrates.

Or am I completely missing something?

I agree on the peanut butter, I have it now and then with honey but definitely don't consider it as part of my diet. Many better nuts to choose from.


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> Its probably more of a cost thing for me. I know steak is more expensive than chicken, so I automatically prefer the taste of steak, but cant afford it every meal :lol:
> 
> So I'm stuck with chicken, and that makes me bored of it very easily!


Mate chicken and rice is a staple in my diet most days. Never tastes bland, I don't worry about the calorie content of spices! I feel your suffering for nothing!!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

F.M.J said:


> I eat brown rice because it has 3 times more carbohydrates.
> 
> I always wondered about this though. There's only 3.5g fibre per 100g but some people say white rice and brown rice have similar amounts of carbohydrates - but it's not coming from fiber so must be starch/sugar. I ask, how? It says on the packet even that it b/rice has about 70-75% carbs and w/rice 20-25%...
> 
> ...


brown rice has 3 times more carbohydrates than what?


----------



## madmuscles (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm personally not entirely convinced about quark, it's around 85p to a pound something usually and it's Protein content is 13.3g per 100gs and the pot is 250gms which for a months supply would run you something like £25 and you'd be getting roughly 34gms protein a night from it , now let's compare it let's say mp's calcium caseinate which is £39.49 for 2.5 kg which is roughly 85gms protein per 100gms so you have 50gms of casein a night you'd get 42 gms protein and the casein would last 50 days .

Fair enough i know some prefer the "Whole food" before bed or love the taste of the quark but personally i'd go for the casein everytime.

^Sorry for my rather sh*tty and confusing and probably wrong mathematical formula but i'm f*cking knackered, lol.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

I agree 100% about peanut butter. I've started counting my calories recently and it's no good. So little bang for buck


----------



## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

Have to admit, I use a lot of shakes, probably about three a day. But that's because I like to keep my diet full of fruit, veg, nuts and seeds, etc and supplement my protein. But I agree wih you about how people get carried away with foods that in actual fact are merely recommended due to their convinience and price.


----------



## DeadlyCoobra (Oct 16, 2011)

F.M.J said:


> I eat brown rice because it has 3 times more carbohydrates.
> 
> I always wondered about this though. There's only 3.5g fibre per 100g but some people say white rice and brown rice have similar amounts of carbohydrates - but it's not coming from fiber so must be starch/sugar. I ask, how? It says on the packet even that it b/rice has about 70-75% carbs and w/rice 20-25%...
> 
> ...


I think you are muddling up the per 100g cooked and uncooked values, all rice whether its brown or white is about 70g per 100. Its just sometimes they only put cooked values on the back, and others they put raw values


----------



## Xbigdave79 (Mar 30, 2012)

So people are saying the is no difference between white rice and brown rice ,isn't that like saying no difference

Between brown bread and white bread


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Well is there? I prefer the taste of brown bread but aren't the nutritional values very similar?


----------



## kingdale (Nov 2, 2010)

I think unless you are doing absolutely everything perfect in your diet and training swapping around white and brown bread/rice is not going to make a blind bit of difference.


----------



## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

DeadlyCoobra said:


> I think you are muddling up the per 100g cooked and uncooked values, all rice whether its brown or white is about 70g per 100. Its just sometimes they only put cooked values on the back, and others they put raw values


Ah. On every bag of rice I've ever seen for white it has cooked values (always says around 25g per 100g) and brown raw values (says around 75g per 100g)... but neither actually say on the packaging cooked or raw (at least on the rice I buy).

This throws my diet into question now.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Xbigdave79 said:


> So people are saying the is no difference between white rice and brown rice ,isn't that like saying no difference
> 
> Between brown bread and white bread


actually nobody is saying that.


----------



## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> actually nobody is saying that.


Is brown rice a low GI carb and white a medium GI carb? Thats what I've always thought but it could be a myth


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

foodaddict said:


> Is brown rice a low GI carb and white a medium GI carb? Thats what I've always thought but it could be a myth


Brown rice is definitely lower GI. The fibre is in the husk (ie the brown coating of the rice).


----------



## DazUKM (Nov 22, 2012)

foodaddict said:


> Is brown rice a low GI carb and white a medium GI carb? Thats what I've always thought but it could be a myth


yeh thats basically it, also brown has more micro-nutrients because its less processed (i believe?)

but many would argue GI doesnt matter and has no affect on body comp


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Nothing wrong with rice or pop tarts for carbs. Both the same. IIFYM it doesn't make a blind difference. As long as your fibre is in there.

As for GI, goes out the window as soon as fat or protein is eaten at the same time for digestion rates.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

D9S4 said:


> yeh thats basically it, also brown has more micro-nutrients because its less processed (i believe?)
> 
> but many would argue GI doesnt matter and has no affect on body comp


GI has next to no difference on your body comp unless you are in an extreme calorie deficit. Then it makes a bad situation worse (obviously there are circumstance like in calorie cycling where it can be a good thing).

Like potatoes and a lot of fruit. Most nutrients are in the 'skin'. Brown rice definitely has more nutrients, but when you compare the amounts to Adult RDAs's it certainly not a massive contributed compared to what is found in many vegetables (which so many people are happy leave out their diet and not fuss about).


----------



## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> GI has next to no difference on your body comp unless you are in an extreme calorie deficit. Then it makes a bad situation worse (obviously there are circumstance like in calorie cycling where it can be a good thing).
> 
> Like potatoes and a lot of fruit. Most nutrients are in the 'skin'. Brown rice definitely has more nutrients, but when you compare the amounts to Adult RDAs's it certainly not a massive contributed compared to what is found in many vegetables (which so many people are happy leave out their diet and not fuss about).[/quote
> 
> ...


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

foodaddict said:


> It doesn't make it 'meaningless', but your body doesn't process food bite per bite. The insulin response, in simplistic terms is an aggregation of everything you are currently digesting.
> 
> a mars bar after a T-bone steak won't make a massive different to 'spiking' GI levels.
> 
> ...


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Long and short IMO, if it fits your macro's, you will lose weight.

Alberto Nunez, who diets on pop tarts and ice cream:


----------



## foodaddict (Feb 11, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> I'm not looking to pick holes,I just find it a fascinating topic particularly because I start a cut in about 2 weeks time. I keep hearing calories in v calories out but struggle to reconcile this argument with the quality of nutrients regarding body composition.
> 
> For example,if I eat 200g protein and 400g carbs from brown rice OR 100g protein and 500g carbs from haribo sweets. Its the exact same number of calories...but surely the insulin spike from eating such large amounts of high GI carbs would have an unfavourable effect on body comp compared to the first diet?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)




----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

simonthepieman said:


> *GI has next to no difference on your body comp unless you are in an extreme calorie deficit.* Then it makes a bad situation worse (obviously there are circumstance like in calorie cycling where it can be a good thing).
> 
> Like potatoes and a lot of fruit. Most nutrients are in the 'skin'. Brown rice definitely has more nutrients, but when you compare the amounts to Adult RDAs's it certainly not a massive contributed compared to what is found in many vegetables (which so many people are happy leave out their diet and not fuss about).


The only thing I'd add to that is GI does make more difference too if diabetic, pre diabetic or with a very poor insulin sensitivity.

As for micronutrients, I think it's about total diet. Comparing micros from one food to another is hard to do because different food combinations affect the bioavailability of micros, as does the way the food is stored, prepared and cooked, and indeed which part of the food is eaten - in some cases one food with a lower total micro content may be superior that another food with a higher micro content simply because of bioavailability - and sometimes two foods with bioequivalent micro availability in the uncooked/unprocessed state may diverge from each other for micronutrient value when cooked.

Just as you say, insulin and micronutrient balances are very complex topics.


----------



## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

I think the chips peas onion and gravy are overated never mind the chicken curry and fried rice

And whats the feck the point in having a diet coke with any of that just treat yourself to full coke as your getting enough very healthy food.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

dtlv said:


> The only thing I'd add to that is GI does make more difference too if diabetic, pre diabetic or with a very poor insulin sensitivity.
> 
> As for micronutrients, I think it's about total diet. Comparing micros from one food to another is hard to do because different food combinations affect the bioavailability of micros, as does the way the food is stored, prepared and cooked, and indeed which part of the food is eaten - in some cases one food with a lower total micro content may be superior that another food with a higher micro content simply because of bioavailability - and sometimes two foods with bioequivalent micro availability in the uncooked/unprocessed state may diverge from each other for micronutrient value when cooked.
> 
> Just as you say, insulin and micronutrient balances are very complex topics.


100% agree. That's another reason brown rice is overrated. It has poor bioavailability of nutrients (I left this out earlier because its a can of worms, I know of a very interesting of study I will try to dig out about it).

Green veg should be stable for nutrients for this and many other reasons


----------



## pez1206 (Feb 20, 2009)

This thread is a head wreck!

Iv always been of the opinion that not all carbs are not born equal? Either way love cottage cheese and prefer the taste of sweet potato, however brown rice can f-off.


----------



## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

Savoy Cabbage


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Long and short IMO, if it fits your macro's, you will lose weight.
> 
> Alberto Nunez, who diets on pop tarts and ice cream:
> 
> View attachment 117348


Looks good but ouch, is that a double pec tear?


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

pez1206 said:


> This thread is a head wreck!
> 
> Iv always been of the opinion that not all carbs are not born equal? Either way love cottage cheese and prefer the taste of sweet potato, however brown rice can f-off.


Haha, well there are very definite differences but it's a complex subject with a lot of variables. Probably a subject worth a thread of its own.


----------



## goodison1972 (Mar 18, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> You see a lot of a diets thrown up on forums and a lot of them are extremely repetitive and boring. People constantly refer to these food, but I wonder how much thought they have actually put into why they are recommending them. Other than that they have seen other people recommend them.
> 
> Now just for clarity, all the foods I will list aren't bad foods. In fact. Most of them are very good. However they are no magic superfood and hopefully it will give you the motivation to search out other foods and flex those taste buds for a change
> 
> ...


Great post !!!!


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

onthebuild said:


> Looks good but ouch, is that a double pec tear?


Thats how your pecs look when lean buddy!


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

dtlv said:


> Haha, well there are very definite differences but it's a complex subject with a lot of variables. Probably a subject worth a thread of its own.


Until very very lean, I really honestly doubt in the *real* world (not lab) you will see a difference.

I've dieted on stupidly clean diets and this time up til a week or so back on higher GI to see difference and there was none.

Clearly however you gotta known your own body and your overall carb tolerances.

GI goes out the window in the real word when you eat foods with other macros involved.


----------



## MuscleFood (Jul 27, 2012)

All for sale on www.musclefood.com ! 

I have to agree on peanut butter, although we do stock it.

UNDER RATED FOODS would be a good thread too!


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Until very very lean, I really honestly doubt in the *real* world (not lab) you will see a difference.
> 
> I've dieted on stupidly clean diets and this time up til a week or so back on higher GI to see difference and there was none.
> 
> ...


On a cut I agree with you. It's bizzare, but true a dirty cut works better dirty bulk.

IIFYM is the ONLY way to cut. By that I don't mean you HAVE to eat dirty (eat whagtever you want). You just MUST hit your marcos.

Whereas adding mass and avoid gaining fat in a bulk is a little more complex. Also blood alkali levels come into play. But even then. Hitting your macros should be your priority.

When you are smashing 3,500+ calories a day. The care of your gut, digestive system and blood are a lot different to when eating 2000 cals


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

MuscleFood said:


> All for sale on www.musclefood.com !
> 
> I have to agree on peanut butter, although we do stock it.
> 
> UNDER RATED FOODS would be a good thread too!


I am tempted. I will get flamed to high hell though!


----------



## MuscleFood (Jul 27, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> I am tempted. I will get flamed to high hell though!


Do it! I am very interested myself


----------



## Dr Manhattan (Jan 8, 2012)

Agree with what is being said from a macronutrient point of view.

From a micronutrient point of view, sweet potato and brown rice do trump the white varieties though.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Brown rice, sweet potato and oats... **** off.

There has gotta be something wrong with you if you put oats in your mouth. Flame away.


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> I am tempted. I will get flamed to high hell though!


Do it!! White potato, butter and pork to start with lol


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Until very very lean, I really honestly doubt in the *real* world (not lab) you will see a difference.
> 
> I've dieted on stupidly clean diets and this time up til a week or so back on higher GI to see difference and there was none.
> 
> ...


This^^^^^^ although there's not much point talking logic regarding gi on here because nobody wants to hear it mate.


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Dr Manhattan said:


> Agree with what is being said from a macronutrient point of view.
> 
> From a micronutrient point of view, sweet potato and brown rice do trump the white varieties though.


Not really sweet potato and white potato have different nutritional benefits, white potato is higher in certain essential minerals!


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Fatstuff said:


> Not really sweet potato and white potato have different nutritional benefits, white potato is higher in certain essential minerals!


Meh. You eat your greens, you eat your potatoes of either variety do you *really* think you are missing much. Really?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> Do it!! White potato, butter and pork to start with lol


That's crazy, a vegetable with the one of the highest amounts of potassium, and vitamin c (essentially for BBers), a great amino profile in its limited amount of protein, and more fibre than it gets credit for. Combined with a substance that can help elevate natural T production and a pork chop and extremely lean meat.

Sounds terrible


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Meh. You eat your greens, you eat your potatoes of either variety do you *really* think you are missing much. Really?


not at all, im just defending the humble potato lol


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dr Manhattan said:


> Agree with what is being said from a macronutrient point of view.
> 
> From a micronutrient point of view, sweet potato and brown rice do trump the white varieties though.


untrue. Sweet and white potato are different. Brown rice has more nutrients that white, but the bioavailability of nutrients in brown rice is relatively poor. compared to green veg


----------



## Dr Manhattan (Jan 8, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> untrue. Sweet and white potato are different. Brown rice has more nutrients that white, but the bioavailability of nutrients in brown rice is relatively poor. compared to green veg


But you're comparing brown rice to green veg there.

Eating brown rice and green veg and eating white rice and green veg would be more accurate. From a micro perspective, brown is better there.


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Dr Manhattan said:


> But you're comparing brown rice to green veg there.
> 
> Eating brown rice and green veg and eating white rice and green veg would be more accurate. From a micro perspective, brown is better there.


but by what margin ?? its minimal imo as long as ur eating varied, hitting ur macros and getting enough fibre ur laughing


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Thats the thing. You CANNOT look at potato and say "Um its bad because XYZ" simply because in the real world most people eat their chicken with potato and veg or salad, at least a few times a day. It is inaccurate and misleading promoting a single veg as a leader because a varied diet will do that for you anyway - magazines and the like do simply to create articles, make print and yes do show the veg that will help if eaten on their own...

...but it is so far from the real world it doesn't really come in to it.


----------



## Dr Manhattan (Jan 8, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> but by what margin ?? its minimal imo as long as ur eating varied, hitting ur macros and getting enough fibre ur laughing


Yeah I hear what you're saying with it being minima and do agree therel. But if you ate brown rather than white each time, it adds up.

To use another analogy, if you saved £1 a week, that's minimal, but over time the benefit accumulates.

I guess ultimately though, enjoying your food is important and I do prefer brown over white rice anyway. So like dtlv said, I guess I'm inclined to argue pro brown rice. But it's true that most people do prefer white rice and there's no point or fun in life if you don't look forward to most of your meals.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dr Manhattan said:


> But you're comparing brown rice to green veg there.
> 
> Eating brown rice and green veg and eating white rice and green veg would be more accurate. From a micro perspective, brown is better there.


but how much better?


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Dr Manhattan said:


> Yeah I hear what you're saying with it being minima and do agree therel. But if you ate brown rather than white each time, it adds up.
> 
> To use another analogy, if you saved £1 a week, that's minimal, but over time the benefit accumulates.
> 
> I guess ultimately though, enjoying your food is important and I do prefer brown over white rice anyway. So like dtlv said, I guess I'm inclined to argue pro brown rice. But it's true that most people do prefer white rice and there's no point or fun in life if you don't look forward to most of your meals.


The single main reason i eat white rice is this -


----------



## B4PJS (Mar 28, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> The single main reason i eat white rice is this -
> View attachment 117454


That's some damn good stuff. I like the mushroom one as well.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Fatstuff said:


> The single main reason i eat white rice is this -
> View attachment 117454


lol, i like mine plain stuff, then the end of the end of the meals is soaked up all the juices. It's almost sexual


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

B4PJS said:


> That's some damn good stuff. I like the mushroom one as well.


Yeah I like loads of flavours, so easy for work just bang half a pack in a Tupperware box with some cooked meat and microwave it all together!!


----------



## B4PJS (Mar 28, 2013)

Fatstuff said:


> Yeah I like loads of flavours, so easy for work just bang half a pack in a Tupperware box with some cooked meat and microwave it all together!!


I generally have about 2/3 of a pack as I have it with the wife in the evening and she is trying to lose some weight so always wants a mouse sized portion. Getting a bit bored of rice though, need to get her to come more pasta based foods


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Is just a mix of cost/convenience/enjoyment for me.

I eat the likes of oats and whey for cost/convenience.

But i'd eat chicken fajitas over chicken and brown rice any day for dinner/lunch so long as my macros are met at the end of the day.


----------



## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

So when it comes down to it, if lifting is just a hobby then just meet your macros in any way you can?

The micronutrients and such only come into play when your very lean and competing?


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

faultline said:


> So when it comes down to it, if lifting is just a hobby then just meet your macros in any way you can?
> 
> The micronutrients and such only come into play when your very lean and competing?


I compete, I follow IIFYM.

This is the misses after dieting 12 weeks, me 5. Plenty more condition to come into it for both...


----------



## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)

Papa Lazarou said:


> Thats how your pecs look when lean buddy!


Ahh that'll be why I never knew :lol:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

faultline said:


> So when it comes down to it, if lifting is just a hobby then just meet your macros in any way you can?
> 
> The micronutrients and such only come into play when your very lean and competing?


in simple terms

Meeting your calorie goals = weight change

Meeting your macros = body composition change

meeting your micros = health

meeting the mother in law = stress


----------



## Fit4life (Sep 16, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> You see a lot of a diets thrown up on forums and a lot of them are extremely repetitive and boring. People constantly refer to these food, but I wonder how much thought they have actually put into why they are recommending them. Other than that they have seen other people recommend them.
> 
> Now just for clarity, all the foods I will list aren't bad foods. In fact. Most of them are very good. However they are no magic superfood and hopefully it will give you the motivation to search out other foods and flex those taste buds for a change
> 
> ...


I am SO GLAD this post was done, sick of hearing from the inexperienced that pick up snipppets from their FB friends lists or from PTs with an agenda , FFS its not rocket science , diet is a way of life or it should be for everyone that can eat n swallow....

Kaza


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> You see a lot of a diets thrown up on forums and a lot of them are extremely repetitive and boring. People constantly refer to these food, but I wonder how much thought they have actually put into why they are recommending them. Other than that they have seen other people recommend them.
> 
> Now just for clarity, all the foods I will list aren't bad foods. In fact. Most of them are very good. However they are no magic superfood and hopefully it will give you the motivation to search out other foods and flex those taste buds for a change
> 
> ...


Disagree with most of those.

Brown rice has a much lower GI than white. Brown basmati especially.

When dieting brown basmati rice helps to stave off hunger longer.

Peanut butter and peanuts. Well like flaxseed and flaxseed oil you need to crush the nuts/seeds to properly release the oils or it can pass through the system without being released. That's why peanuts aren't in the diet from a fats perspective.

There was a study done a while ago on EVOO and OO and a few others. It showed that EVOO raised metabolism higher and longer than OO.

Sweet potato I am not really a fan of but compared to white potato I have used white potato to carb up because its higher GI means the carb up happens quicker for me. If I was dieting I wouldn't use white potatoes as it drops my blood sugar so sweet potato would be preferable. However I do agree on this that sweet potato isn't some holy grail food.

Whey - I don't have protein shakes 3 weeks from a show because of the processed food. However you do need a fast absorbed protein around workout time and at breakfast. I haven't seen ANY big guys that don't use some form of liquid protein.


----------



## lambrettalad (May 3, 2012)

Fit4life said:


> I am SO GLAD this post was done, sick of hearing from the inexperienced that pick up snipppets from their FB friends lists or from PTs with an agenda , FFS its not rocket science , diet is a way of life or it should be for everyone that can eat n swallow....
> 
> Kaza


The inexperienced have an excuse, they are inexperienced.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Disagree with most of those.
> 
> Brown rice has a much lower GI than white. Brown basmati especially.
> 
> ...


bacon starves of hunger better than brown rice. if thats the rationale have that instead

And with peanuts, do you not chew? Peanuts still a poor choice of protein and just a random choice for fats if we are going to miniscule facts for nutrient and amino profiles.

[email protected] evoo raising metabolism. How much more precisely did it raise the metabolism? 1%? i doubt it. probably not enough to burn off half a tea spoons worth of EVOO. If you are using pure fat as a stimulants for a negligible increase in calories burned, you are kinda going about things in a weird way 

Just to note. I never said they were bad food. They are fine. As i stated quite clearly. They are OVERRATED (that not just a note to you, that to all who missed my point the first time)


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> bacon starves of hunger better than brown rice. if thats the rationale have that instead
> 
> And with peanuts, do you not chew? Peanuts still a poor choice of protein and just a random choice for fats if we are going to miniscule facts for nutrient and amino profiles.
> 
> ...


Bacon staves off hunger better than brown rice. So have that on a diet instead.

Sorry but after laughing so much at that gem of knowledge I couldn't read the rest as I was crying so much.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Bacon staves off hunger better than brown rice. So have that on a diet instead.
> 
> Sorry but after laughing so much at that gem of knowledge I couldn't read the rest as I was crying so much.


when I cut, bacon is one of my staple foods. Two eggs and two slices of bacon and I don't feel hungry for hours.

Pretty ironic when you suggest pure liquid fat is a good cutting aid :rockon:


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

simonthepieman said:


> when I cut, bacon is one of my staple foods. Two eggs and two slices of bacon and I don't feel hungry for hours.


I'll second that.


----------



## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> when I cut, bacon is one of my staple foods. Two eggs and two slices of bacon and I don't feel hungry for hours.
> 
> Pretty ironic when you suggest pure liquid fat is a good cutting aid :rockon:


To be fair comparing your avi and TinyToms it's not much of a competition on whos advice I'd rather take on nutrition.You seem to come across pretty arrogant as if you know best cos you've read a few studies and anyone else is wrong?Ah the age old bodybuilding debate of Brown Rice vs Bacon.

Unless you are competitive bodybuilder just eat what gets you results and have a life at the same time.


----------



## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> when I cut, bacon is one of my staple foods. Two eggs and two slices of bacon and I don't feel hungry for hours.
> 
> Pretty ironic when you suggest pure liquid fat is a good cutting aid :rockon:


Portion of brown rice vs portion of bacon and eggs - know which would keep me fuller for longer


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Ok I've read the rest.

Grinding the peanuts releases more fats that can be absorbed therefore peanut butter or indeed peanut oil is preferable. Peanut butter is generally more available though which is why it's included in diets. A more preferential butter would be almond IMO but thAts normally not as available. Funnily though almonds seem to me more available than raw peanuts.

You're not understanding the impact of a raised metabolism. It's not just about burning fats it's all the body's other processes as well as in absorbing proteins and burning carbohydrates. This gives EVOO a superior profile to olive oil. I also believe that more of the anti carcinogens survive on a EVOO process than olive oil but @hackskii or @Pscarb would know more than me.

Your tone in reply to me was quite 'I know everything so you can't disagree' I'm not saying I know everything but your original post was quite 'know it all' in nature and I was offering an alternative perspective.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> when I cut, bacon is one of my staple foods. Two eggs and two slices of bacon and I don't feel hungry for hours.
> 
> Pretty ironic when you suggest pure liquid fat is a good cutting aid :rockon:


That's because of the fats from the eggs and bacon. Plus the low GI of both foods. So actually it's pretty ironic you don't know that the fats are helping you cut lol.

Bacon is a very poor protein source. Reminds me of a guy a while back that said everyone should eat pork chops instead of chicken because of the glutathione content.

If we are talking about who can get more ripped then I really think you need to rethink that argument.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

GolfDelta said:


> To be fair comparing your avi and TinyToms it's not much of a competition on whos advice I'd rather take on nutrition.You seem to come across pretty arrogant as if you know best cos you've read a few studies and anyone else is wrong?Ah the age old bodybuilding debate of Brown Rice vs Bacon.
> 
> Unless you are competitive bodybuilder just eat what gets you results and have a life at the same time.


Totally agree with this last bit (and the first of course  )

People over complicate their diet to extremes when they aren't even prepping for a show.

Doing everything right 90% of the time will get you good results and won't send you mental counting calories.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Ok I've read the rest.
> 
> Grinding the peanuts releases more fats that can be absorbed therefore peanut butter or indeed peanut oil is preferable. Peanut butter is generally more available though which is why it's included in diets. A more preferential butter would be almond IMO but thAts normally not as available. Funnily though almonds seem to me more available than raw peanuts.
> 
> ...


I apologies for my tone. I very hung over and hating the world right now. I like your posts and admire your achievements.

again, the metbolism increase from EVOO when put into context is rather pointless. EVOO is better than OO, as someone marrying into Italians i know the stuff well, it tastes better as well.

protein from nuts generally have an poor amino profile compared to meats. simple fact.

The whole point of the thread is to highlight that these foods aren't that special. They are just foods. However they often make up a huge portion of people diets on a huge scale and they would be better off with a more diverse diet.

Whey and peanut butter are great for being cheap and convenient. I have both. I eat both as part of diverse and varied diet. But just re-reiterate, they are overrated and not necessities.


----------



## luther1 (Jul 31, 2011)

Isn't brown rice used because its a slower releasing carb source than white?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> That's because of the fats from the eggs and bacon. Plus the low GI of both foods. So actually it's pretty ironic you don't know that the fats are helping you cut lol.
> 
> Bacon is a very poor protein source. Reminds me of a guy a while back that said everyone should eat pork chops instead of chicken because of the glutathione content.
> 
> If we are talking about who can get more ripped then I really think you need to rethink that argument.


bacon is poor protein source, but peanuts good?

i agree with whole heartedly as fatty meat being lower GI than brown rice. Thats my point. Rather than using the brown rice as the filling agent. You meat choice have far greater impact than the carb source.

I never mentioned who can get more ripped. I have no intention of getting as ripped as you, nor would i want to. I enjoy indulgence far too much :lol: you are by far the better bodybuilder than I will be or aspire too. same as the 3DMJ guys who are equal at very least to you and eat very 'non-traditional' cutting foods

You dedication, training and meticulous planning is way ahead of mine. Which gets you in that great shape. not finely grounded peanuts and evoo instead of oo.

again, sorry for the bad tone in my previous message, i fully appreciate this debate and discussion


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Tinytom said:


> People over complicate their diet to extremes when they aren't even prepping for a show.
> 
> Doing everything right 90% of the time will get you good results and won't send you mental counting calories.


I'm guilty of this but it is f*cking difficult to stop once you've started.


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> Disagree with most of those.
> 
> Brown rice has a much lower GI than white. Brown basmati especially.
> 
> ...


not even isolate?


----------



## Xbigdave79 (Mar 30, 2012)

Doesn't eating brown rice ,bread and pasta instead of white help reduce insulin sensitivity??


----------



## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

Brown rice is complex ad white rice has a higher GI than suger and white bread, natural peanut butter, is good and cheap wayof getting a healthy fat source, important for keto!, and peanuts are pulses not nuts!, evoo just a handy fat source that can be used in shakes and salads. protein shakes, you cant sit down to a 3 course meal after a workout, just handy, sweet potato, dont do em!

heres mine, Tuna, tastes crap gone dead expensive, is a poor protein as in it doesnt have the whole amino acid profile......


----------



## pez1206 (Feb 20, 2009)

GolfDelta said:


> To be fair comparing your avi and TinyToms it's not much of a competition on whos advice I'd rather take on nutrition.You seem to come across pretty arrogant as if you know best cos you've read a few studies and anyone else is wrong?Ah the age old bodybuilding debate of Brown Rice vs Bacon.
> 
> Unless you are competitive bodybuilder *just eat what gets you results and have a life at the same time*.


Think this sums up the whole thread.

Still one of my favorite threads on UK-M keep the debate going.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

freddee said:


> Brown rice is complex ad white rice has a higher GI than suger and white bread, natural peanut butter, is good and cheap wayof getting a healthy fat source, important for keto!, and peanuts are pulses not nuts!, evoo just a handy fat source that can be used in shakes and salads. protein shakes, you cant sit down to a 3 course meal after a workout, just handy, sweet potato, dont do em!
> 
> heres mine, Tuna, tastes crap gone dead expensive, is a poor protein as in it doesnt have the whole amino acid profile......


tinned tuna. arggggggggggg that was one i was going to put in!!! definitely overrated. the thing I hate seeing most in a 'Struggling to grow because i can't eat enough' threads is someone who lists one of their meals as 'tuna with brown rice'

However, fresh tuna steaks are delicious. I can make an amazing japanese sauce for Tuna steaks. flash fry each side, raw in the middle. UH-MAZING


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

freddee said:


> Brown rice is complex ad white rice has a higher GI than suger and white bread, natural peanut butter, is good and cheap wayof getting a healthy fat source, important for keto!, and peanuts are pulses not nuts!, evoo just a handy fat source that can be used in shakes and salads. protein shakes, you cant sit down to a 3 course meal after a workout, just handy, sweet potato, dont do em!
> 
> heres mine, Tuna, tastes crap gone dead expensive, is a poor protein as in it doesnt have the whole amino acid profile......


White rice has a higher gi then sugar? Are you joking?

300g brown rice has a score of 33 on gi scale

300g white rice has a score of 45

300g of sugar has a score of 210

300g white bread has a score of 90


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

jayDP said:


> White rice has a higher gi then sugar? Are you joking?
> 
> 300g brown rice has a score of 33 on gi scale
> 
> ...


sugar has a GI of 210? where did you get that from.

The GI is a scale is based on the value of energy availability of a glucose molecule. WHich is 100


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> sugar has a GI of 210? where did you get that from.
> 
> The GI is a scale is based on the value of energy availability of a glucose molecule. WHich is 100


http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5592/2

Change the drop down box to 100g, then times glycamic load number by 3

This is how I got them numbers


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> sugar has a GI of 210? where did you get that from.
> 
> The GI is a scale is based on the value of energy availability of a glucose molecule. WHich is 100


The GI table can be and has been based on white bread....

I would agree that for the majority of people switching from white spuds to sweet spuds will have no real effect same as brown and white rice but if you are detailing your diet even in the off season it does eventually make a difference for the simple reason of Fibre.......what ever way it is cut anything that is unprocessed will have more fibre and through this will keep hunger at bay and make the digestive system and metabolism more efficient......

When I have time I will quote the study's to show that this makes a huge difference fibre is a huge player in the nutritional game and many overlook it as unimportant.

I disagree with the title of this thread as I do not believe these foods are overrated as they are different in a positive way, overrated is when something is put on a pedestal for no benefit to the person using it.

But the fact is EVOO has additional benefits over OO, natural PB has benefits over processed PB (contains extra oil and sugar for taste) Brown basmati has benefits over white basmati these are facts and have been proven time and time again.

What should be said is that the difference is subtle to most due to there over all plan not being that precise but that does not mean over time eating these foods will not make a difference.

By this I mean someone switching to brown rice from white rice but then they go on the lash every sat/fri night that small difference will make no difference in the grand scheme of things, but you have someone who's carbs come mainly come from rice and they don't go on the lash there training is pot on and they rest then it will make a difference one that can be seen in only a few weeks........

Same could be said concerning PB you eat all your fats from PB and see how you feel if the PB is Tesco's own or organic natural PB where the only ingredient is peanuts......

So essentially the subject is valid but not as a sweeping statement.......


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, there is the glycemic index, the insulin index, and glycemic load.

The glycemic index is how fast a food spikes blood sugar, and has a max rating of 100.

The insulin index is the measuring of the response of insulin in the blood.

Glycemic load is what added things in a food would then change the GI, and II.

For instance white bread may have a GI of 100, but if you had the exact same calories yet added in peanut butter on the bread, then the Glycemic Load (GL) would be something like lets say 65.

35 grams of fiber takes 250 cals to burn that, thus it would change any GL adding in fiber, and also slow digestion, and transit time to the blood lowering the GI, and the II.

I know a pretty prominent nutritionist and he says the perfect breakfast is bacon, eggs, and black coffee, then goes on to explain why.

On keto diets, you are not eating the bacon for protein, you are eating it for the fat, you are eating the peanut butter for fat, not protein.

Comparing carbs, to fats as a fuel source can be problematic, some guys work well on fats, some on carbs, and about a third of the population have issues with carbs and insulin resistance, using fats instead then would be of benefit.

It all depends on the person, and yes tuna is fine, olive oil is fine, fish oils are fine, even bacon is fine, eat all different protein sources.

If it runs, crawls, swims, flys, or walks, you can eat it.

I think it was John Barardie(sp) that suggests to rotate your protein sources, and if you can get whole foods, and organic, then by all means get that.

On the oil thing, you need all 3 of them, and in about equal ratio's, diets low in fat, or low in saturated fats, or low in cholesterol, tend to mess with your hormones if going below 20% total calories.


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

Enjoying this thread - good to hear some of the UKM greats chip in :thumb:


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

hackskii said:


> For instance white bread may have a GI of 100, but if you had the exact same calories yet added in peanut butter on the bread, then the Glycemic Load (GL) would be something like lets say 65.


this the key and the reason why using the GI is not a good idea, also protein has the same effect


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> natural PB has benefits over processed PB (contains extra oil and sugar for taste) .


This is i dont get...

Natty peanut butter is 100% peanuts right?

Sunpat is 95%.. Are you really gonna get a benefit from 5?!


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

L11 said:


> This is i dont get...
> 
> Natty peanut butter is 100% peanuts right?
> 
> Sunpat is 95%.. Are you really gonna get a benefit from 5?!


What is the other 5%?

I think you will find it is sugar.....

Edit* I have just looked it is a stabalizer E471 and cane sugar

Because you picked this out of my post you must of read the part about it being a subtle difference one that over time will make a difference so I am somewhat confused to your question?


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> What is the other 5%?
> 
> I think you will find it is sugar.....
> 
> ...


Lol I didn't actually read the post tbh. I just jump on any post about natty pb


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

L11 said:


> Lol I didn't actually read the post tbh. I just jump on any post about natty pb


I thought that.....another thought for you is that regular PB has trans fats and hydrogenated fats in it for taste where natural does not and they do make a difference if you use this as one of your main sources of fats


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Pscarb said:


> this the key and the reason why using the GI is not a good idea, also protein has the same effect


Exactally why they made up the Insulin Index, as there are meats and carbs in that, so for example:

Bread is 100 on the GI, and 100 on the II

Apple is 50 and 59 on the II so if you look at it, actually something falling right in the middle of the GI, moves up on the II

Beef is 21 on the GI, and 51 on the II

Generally speaking if you want to move (I am not talking to you Paul, just to the board as you already know this) the glycemic load of the meal, you add fiber, and or a fat, or both, thus lowering the glycemic load, and also if it is a good fat raise insulin sensitivity.

So, an apple maybe 50 on the GI, yet apple juice might be 70 on the GI (just a number out of air), yet, if you were dieting and ate just the skin of the apple only the GI might be as low as 25.

I know a doc that suggests guys dieting eat 2 skins of the apple and toss the apple, makes sense as soluble fiber lowers cholesterol and helps one be more insulin sensitive.

Things that raise the GI are processing, cooking, removing fiber from the food, etc.



Pscarb said:


> I thought that.....another thought for you is that regular PB has trans fats and hydrogenated fats in it for taste where natural does not and they do make a difference if you use this as one of your main sources of fats


The hydrogenated oils are bad news, and if you are dieting, then take notice of this: According to the US department of health, eating trans fats may cause more weight gain even with similar caloric intake as other oils, and the substance may tempt people to eat too much of the food.


----------



## Reed00112 (Jul 9, 2012)

Anything wholegrain. Look in to anti -nutrients!

Wholegrain is awesome if your aiming for low GI on a cut etc, but not for any real length of time.

And in sweet potato's defense, white potato's bloat me and give me indigestion pretty bad. Not sure why, but it doesn't happen with sweet potato's!


----------



## Professorx (Mar 24, 2013)

Im agree and disagree with this thread...We are on the way to transform bodybuilding in a math problem. Do you think in 60's bodybuilders discussed about 10 kinds of rice ? "Hey dude ! are you crazy ! I will breack your arm if you eat this basmati rice, you must eat red rice, and roots"

Dave palumbo drank a lot of protein shakes : easy to absorb, less solicitation of intestines, cheap etc...

Look at how jay or others eat

Just my opinion.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Professorx said:


> Im agree and disagree with this thread...We are on the way to transform bodybuilding in a math problem. Do you think in 60's bodybuilders discussed about 10 kinds of rice ? "Hey dude ! are you crazy ! I will breack your arm if you eat this basmati rice, you must eat red rice, and roots"
> 
> Dave palumbo drank a lot of protein shakes : easy to absorb, less solicitation of intestines, cheap etc...
> 
> ...


Far less selection of processed foods back then, and not much genetically modified crap, in fact any corn here that is not organic is genetically modified, and that is all of it, canned, raw, frozen, etc.

Don't get me started on this little jem of genetic modification that produces toxins to protect the corn from insects.

Anyone that suggests getting protein from a shake over whole foods is ill-informed.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

We all have our different interpretations if what at is most important in diet, and for me personally I think that micro nutrient balance in certain key areas is more important than overall macros, especially when cutting from an average body fat to a very lean contest like condition, or for those with insulin issues.

For example, people tend to experiment and eventually find a very narrow and specific macro ratio that seems to work particularly well for them but without too much consideration to the micros within it. My argument and belief is that if they also paid attention to key micros they would change and widen the band of macros they can cut on - ie, if someone who doesn't normally cut well on moderate or high carb really concentrates on foods high in select minerals, lower GI carbs and to have a well thought out fatty acid ratio, then they might find that their blood sugar balance and insulin insensitivity improves to the point of not really having to worry too much about low carb. The higher carb diet might then therefore allow for a greater range of foods acceptable to the eating plan making it more palatable and easier to stick to long term.

Of the things I consider important for that, and for long term health, is quality and composition of dietary fat - omega 3/6 balance, absolute minimal intake of trans, hydrogenated and rancid fats (so EVOO over OO), and a shift generally away from long chain saturated fats towards monounsaturated fat and MCT's.

I don't even like to look at different dietary fat types as one macro - they are so different in metabolic function that I think they should be looked at separately - maybe that's me being overly geeky, but where I've applied it on myself and the few others who I've suggest things too and have actually followed them if does appear to have made positive differences.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Professorx said:


> Im agree and disagree with this thread...We are on the way to transform bodybuilding in a math problem. Do you think in 60's bodybuilders discussed about 10 kinds of rice ? "Hey dude ! are you crazy ! I will breack your arm if you eat this basmati rice, you must eat red rice, and roots"
> 
> Dave palumbo drank a lot of protein shakes : easy to absorb, less solicitation of intestines, cheap etc...
> 
> ...


jay eats very well....

Back in the 60's they did not have the processed food quantities but then back in the 60's there was only a handful of built guys even natural guys these days are more.

Can I ask why is it like with anything the 60's seem to be the marker everything is measured by? It is done with AAS and with GH now with food........back then if you eat hydrogenated and trans fats you still was fat, if you eat a ton of sugar you still was fat and diabetic the difference now is that we are more educated in our choices thus thus in general our physiques and health benefit.....


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

sauliuhas said:


> not even isolate?


No because I try and eliminate any processed foods

Also 200g chicken tastes better and lasts longer than 2 scoops whey.

Whey IMO is a recovery and muscle building product. When you are a few weeks out from a show there's no muscle building going on its all about preserving muscle while in a fasted state. In my experience using whole foods is a lot better at doing this.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

@simonthepieman

Read both the replies just a few things

Cheers for responding in a constructive way we all have bad days so can appreciate sometimes posting at a bad time doesn't convey the true meaning.

Also peanuts I never use for protein always fats in my macros. It's not a complete protein so no use to me in counting it.

I think the other points I was going to raise have already been covered by Paul Det and Scott so I won't go over them again.

Good info on this thread though.


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Love threads like this, very informative


----------



## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

I do think a few of u bigger boys are missing the point though lol.

People seem to live and die by their sweet potato, tuna and brown rice bro foods, where there is no real need to limit yourself quite that much -I think that was piemans point really!


----------



## Professorx (Mar 24, 2013)

Sure, very informative. I think I have to change my diete and delete some shakers...

How to do for those like me who has not a big appetite ?

In espana I havent got super market or website like musclefood to eat solid and cheap...


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

onthebuild said:


> What would you recommend as a daily diet?
> 
> Not being funny, but I think people recommend these foods as they are cheap, convenient and easy to get down, not because they are the be all and end all of diets. Is it just me who doesn't want to even use my tastebuds, especially when bulking pretty much means forcing food in so you feel sick 99% of the time. Taste is the last thing on my mind tbh.


i used to be like that, then realised i wasnt prepared to do that 5hit for the rest of the lifting days so relaxed the diet and it hasnt hindered my progression.


----------



## Effloresce (May 7, 2010)

Nandos.

All you sad ****s getting hard over spicy chicken.. **** off


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Fatstuff said:


> I do think a few of u bigger boys are missing the point though lol.
> 
> People seem to live and die by their sweet potato, tuna and brown rice bro foods, where there is no real need to limit yourself quite that much -I think that was piemans point really!


not missing the point at all, why does it bother so many if someone wants to live/eat like this, i don't but why are so many bothered???



jake87 said:


> i used to be like that, then realised i wasnt prepared to do that 5hit for the rest of the lifting days so relaxed the diet and it hasnt hindered my progression.


how do you know


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Effloresce said:


> Nandos.
> 
> All you sad ****s getting hard over spicy chicken.. **** off


great addition to a good thread thanks for popping in....


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

I lol'd when a natty was compared to a competitive non-natural. Still takes hard work granted but Hardly a fair comparison.

By that logic ronnie coleman has the greatest nutritional knowledge on the planet and look at his videos..no veg, sauce all over the place abd bot a fvcking clue on how to read his bsn scoop instructions


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> not missing the point at all, why does it bother so many if someone wants to live/eat like this, i don't but why are so many bothered???
> 
> how do you know


good question. i was stuck at 14.10 for months, couldnt physically add any more to my diet and was doing 5x5 for a while, was bloated 24/7, got ill and dropped water down to 14.4, relaxed diet got up back up to 14.6 but more importantly thought i looked better. started using gear and that was that. being rubbish at cooking never helped


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> not missing the point at all, why does it bother so many if someone wants to live/eat like this, i don't but why are so many bothered???


it's more that people are told to eat like this and do it out of obligation to a cause or under false pretense that it's optimum to achieve their goals


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Alan Aragon Quote

"Research comparing them head-to-head has found brown rice to be inferior for nitrogen retention, and no better in terms of bioavailability of essential micronutrients. People make all kinds of assumptions about the superiority of brown rice that just isn't true"

and some science

\-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comparison of the nutritional value between brown rice and white rice

Callegaro Mda D, Tirapegui J. Arq Gastroenterol. 1996 Oct-Dec;33(4):225-31.

Cereals are considered an important source of nutrients both in human and animal nourishment. In this paper nutritional value of brown rice is compared to that of white rice in relation to nutrients. Results show that despite higher nutrients contents of brown rice compared to white rice, experimental data does not provide evidence that the brown rice diet is better than the diet based on white rice. Possible antinutritional factors present in brown rice have adverse effects on bioavailability of this cereal nutrients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...ubmed_RVDocSum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...ubmed_RVDocSum)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effects of brown rice on apparent digestibility and balance of nutrients in young men on low protein diets

J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1987 Jun;33(3):207-18. .Miyoshi H, Okuda T, Okuda K, Koishi H.

The effect of brown rice with low protein intake was studied in five healthy young men. Feces were weighed, the digestibility of nutrients was determined, and blood tests were made. Each subject followed a diet consisting mainly of polished rice for 14 days and one consisting mainly of brown rice for 8 days. Both diets contained 0.5 g protein per kg of body weight. The brown rice diet had 3 times as much dietary fiber as the polished rice diet. On the brown rice diet, fecal weight increased, and apparent digestibility of energy, protein, and fat decreased, as did the absorption rates of Na, K, and P. The nitrogen balance was negative on both diets, but more negative on the brown rice diet. The phosphorus balance on the brown rice diet was significantly negative, but other minerals were not affected by the diet. The levels of cholesterol and minerals in the plasma were not significantly different on the polished rice diet and the brown rice diet. Comparing these results with data on standard protein intake (Miyoshi, H. et al (1986) J. Nutr. Sci. Vitaminol., 32, 581-589.), we concluded that brown rice reduced protein digestibility and nitrogen balance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...ubmed_RVDocSum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...ubmed_RVDocSum)


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> it's more that people are told to eat like this and do it out of obligation to a cause or under false pretense that it's optimum to achieve their goals


but this is it no one tells guys to eat specific foods or at least very few do, i tell guys they should know what they are eating and they should do this by weighing the food they eat, i know first hand what a difference this makes and it is a big one.......to be fair non of the foods i have seen being mentioned in this thread are overrated......they may not be a necessity for growth but they are far from overrated....

the studies above are fine but they use a very small subject group over a very small period of time to be fair, the biggest important thing for brown over white is fibre and i am sure i could find hundreds of studies to back that up....

if you want to eat white rice over brown do it, i do (although only basmati) you will not become a 300lb ripped monster if you just eat brown rice, natural PB or Sweet spud but don't dismiss there use because at the end of the day white rice is processed and that is certainly not a good thing compared to unprocessed foods no matter how you cut it


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> but this is it no one tells guys to eat specific foods or at least very few do, i tell guys they should know what they are eating and they should do this by weighing the food they eat, i know first hand what a difference this makes and it is a big one.......to be fair non of the foods i have seen being mentioned in this thread are overrated......they may not be a necessity for growth but they are far from overrated....
> 
> the studies above are fine but they use a very small subject group over a very small period of time to be fair, the biggest important thing for brown over white is fibre and i am sure i could find hundreds of studies to back that up....
> 
> if you want to eat white rice over brown do it, i do (although only basmati) you will not become a 300lb ripped monster if you just eat brown rice, natural PB or Sweet spud but don't dismiss there use because at the end of the day white rice is processed and that is certainly not a good thing compared to unprocessed foods no matter how you cut it


you must not read the diet threads on here. People are always making the recommendations of these foods unnecessarily

Fiber is critiical for health and most people neglect it. But there actually isn't that much fibre in brown rice and if that is your main source, you will struggle to hit the 20g you should aim for. but then again. It's certainly not a bad secondary source of fibre. but not a patch on greens


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

this study does show a benefit to using brown over white rice and the subject count makes it a very valid study in my opinion....

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=416025

*Laymans:*

Qi Sun, MD, now an instructor of medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, and colleagues at Harvard estimate that replacing 50 grams daily of white rice (uncooked, equivalent to a one-third serving) with the same amount of *brown rice would lower the risk of type 2 diabetes by 16%*.

*Replacing the same amount of white rice with other whole grains, such as barley and wheat, is associated with a 36% reduced risk.*

The study is published in the online journal Archives of Internal Medicine.

The researchers say the study is the first to specifically examine white rice vs. brown rice in relation to development of type2 diabetes among Americans.

"Rice consumption in the U.S. has dramatically increased in recent decades," Sun says in a news release. "We believe replacing white rice and other refined grains with whole grains, including brown rice, would lower the risk of type 2 diabetes."

White rice is created by removing the bran and germ portions of brown rice. The authors say that more than 70% of rice eaten in the U.S. is white.

Brown Rice Reduces Diabetes Risk

The scientists examined rice consumption and diabetes risk in 39,765 men and 157,463 women in three large studies -- the Health Professionals Follow-Up Study and the Nurses' Health Study I and II.

They analyzed responses to questionnaires completed every four years about diet, lifestyle, and health conditions.

After adjusting for age and other lifestyle and dietary risk factors, people who consumed five or more servings of white rice per week had a 17% increased risk of diabetes, compared to people who ate less than one serving per month.

But eating two or more servings of brown rice per week was associated with an 11% reduced risk of developing type 2 diabetes, compared to eating less than one serving of brown rice per month.

*Background*

Because of differences in processing and nutrients, brown rice and white rice may have different effects on risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus. We examined white and brown rice consumption in relation to type 2 diabetes risk prospectively in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study and the Nurses' Health Study I and II.

*Methods *

We prospectively ascertained and updated diet, lifestyle practices, and disease status among 39 765 men and 157 463 women in these cohorts.

*Results *

After multivariate adjustment for age and other lifestyle and dietary risk factors, higher intake of white rice (?5 servings per week vs <1 per month) was associated with a higher risk of type 2 diabetes: pooled relative risk (95% confidence interval [CI]), 1.17 (1.02-1.36). In contrast, high brown rice intake (?2 servings per week vs <1 per month) was associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes: pooled relative risk, 0.89 (95% CI, 0.81-0.97). We estimated that replacing 50 g/d (uncooked, equivalent to one-third serving per day) intake of white rice with the same amount of brown rice was associated with a 16% (95% CI, 9%-21%) lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas the same replacement with whole grains as a group was associated with a 36% (30%-42%) lower diabetes risk.

*Conclusions *

Substitution of whole grains, including brown rice, for white rice may lower risk of type 2 diabetes. These data support the recommendation that most carbohydrate intake should come from whole grains rather than refined grains to help prevent type 2 diabetes.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> you must not read the diet threads on here. People are always making the recommendations of these foods unnecessarily
> 
> Fiber is critiical for health and most people neglect it. But there actually isn't that much fibre in brown rice and if that is your main source, you will struggle to hit the 20g you should aim for. but then again. It's certainly not a bad secondary source of fibre. but not a patch on greens


yea because what i do is waste my days going through all of the diet threads..... 

where did i say brown rice was or should be the main source of fibre??? where did i say it could replace greens for fibre? i did not i am saying that there is a difference between refined white rice and unrefined brown rice not sure why you are arguing this point? the study you posted was a poor one as i mentioned the subject field was low(5) and so was the duration (14 days for white rice and 8 for brown, not sure why the white rice had nearly double the allotted time though) that certainly could not be applied to the general population.


----------



## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

i think Pscarb raises a good point, theres alot of studies raised not just on here the media etc quote them left right and center and people take them as gosspel without assessing the reliability and validity of the study.

Having only recently studied this area of research i myself have only recently become aware of there context , but it shows things in a whole new light once you have a grasp of the concepts of reliability and validity and what can affect them.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Okay so brown rice is better than white rice nutritionally but i'm wondering how much difference will it actually make to your average joe body/hobbybuilder if he eats brown over white. I.e is it worth it for less enjoyable meals?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

bigtommay said:


> Okay so brown rice is better than white rice nutritionally but i'm wondering how much difference will it actually make to your average joe body/hobbybuilder if he eats brown over white. I.e is it worth it for less enjoyable meals?


This is it. The studies aren't great and cannot be taken as gospel, but they clearly show there is nothing remarkable about brown rice


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

You like brown rice, cool.

You like white rice, cool.

Pick which one you like the best, after all it is a personal choice, one of which your satisfaction weights some, in the quality of life thing.

Man, as long as you are not comfort eating, eat it, if you are young, eat more, if you are an old fart, probably eat less....

Less gas too:lol:

Listen to your body, it will tell you if you are listening.


----------



## ryda (May 31, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> This is it. The studies aren't great and cannot be taken as gospel, but they clearly show there is nothing remarkable about brown rice


Good coz it tastes like complete ****e!! Even the microwave ones


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bigtommay said:


> Okay so brown rice is better than white rice nutritionally but i'm wondering how much difference will it actually make to your average joe body/hobbybuilder if he eats brown over white. I.e is it worth it for less enjoyable meals?


Have you read the whole thread? It has been said several times that the difference is subtle and if you do not detail your food intake and other aspects of training with the sole goal of muscle size then don't bother as the difference will be lost...



simonthepieman said:


> This is it. The studies aren't great and cannot be taken as gospel, but they clearly show there is nothing remarkable about brown rice


But no one has said different? There is nothing magical about brown rice or sweet spud neither will convert you into some kind of ripped monster but when you look at the whole food and its benefits then there is a difference.

If all you do is eat brown rice over white or sweet spud over white then no I do not think you will see anything but if your whole approach moves towards this style of eating then yes you will see a difference, the problem is I believe that the difference will be in better insulin sensitivity, better digestion etc not something someone can apply pounds/Kilo's to for them to believe it is worth the extra cost etc........that is the issue and that is why some say they are overrated foods......IMO



ryda said:


> Good coz it tastes like complete ****e!! Even the microwave ones


try whole grain basmati rice......

I am not preaching bland tasteless food should be eaten to progress and I eat white basmati rice along with whole grain but I do see a difference if I drop whole grain all together or if I dropped natural PB for regular........


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ryda said:


> Good coz it tastes like complete ****e!! Even the microwave ones


Brown basmati rice

Spoonful of tomato and herb sauce

Bit of EVOO

Doesn't taste like sh!t

Or

White basmati rice

Teaspoon of pilau seasoning

Small bit of EVOO

Both good


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

bigtommay said:


> Okay so brown rice is better than white rice nutritionally but i'm wondering how much difference will it actually make to your average joe body/hobbybuilder if he eats brown over white. I.e is it worth it for less enjoyable meals?


Maybe not much.

But you really are missing the point.

Everyone's getting tied up with one food.

It's the combination of the 10 plus foods you may eat a day and the 7 days through the week you eat those foods that determine your results.

If you want to be average then train average eat average and lead an average life.

If being average makes you happy then no probs. But if bring average does make you happy then there's no way you should be interested in the intricacies of what is being discussed here. Unless of course you are looking for someone to give you a pat on the back and say

'that's ok what you're doing is fine you don't need to make more of an effort. Just stay average'


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> This is it. The studies aren't great and cannot be taken as gospel, but they clearly show there is nothing remarkable about brown rice


I don't think they CLEARLY show that. Seeing as Paul has provided studies that counter your argument.

It's very frustrating when people constantly quote studies and rely on them to back up their argument as fact.

I attended a seminar with Phil Heath at the media and trade show at last years bodypower.

Phil is a very knowledgable guy and the first thing he says he does on a diet is switch from white to brown rice on a diet as this controls his insulin and keeps him less hungry. He also said he does his own diet and prepping.

Also Dorian Yates was a proponent of brown rice over white on diet. Again another guy at the pinnacle of the sport who has a vast degree of nutritional knowledge.


----------



## ryda (May 31, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> Brown basmati rice
> 
> Spoonful of tomato and herb sauce
> 
> ...


Tried that too bad but not as bad, basmati has a nice flavour to it anyway and smell, the only time I can eat brown rice is when it's coverd in sauce like chilli con carne or a curry


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Tinytom said:


> I don't think they CLEARLY show that. Seeing as Paul has provided studies that counter your argument.
> 
> It's very frustrating when people constantly quote studies and rely on them to back up their argument as fact.
> 
> ...


what are your thoughts on what he said about eating fish because it "thins the skin"


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> Have you read the whole thread? It has been said several times that the difference is subtle and if you do not detail your food intake and other aspects of training with the sole goal of muscle size then don't bother as the difference will be lost...
> 
> ..


Yes mate which is how i read the OPs point. I think its just the use of the word overrated which has got to people?


----------



## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

Effloresce said:


> Nandos.
> 
> All you sad ****s getting hard over spicy chicken.. **** off


Their chicken livers are a whole new world of awesome


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Maybe not much.
> 
> But you really are missing the point.
> 
> ...


Well i dont think a persons dedication to diet is diectly related to the quality of the rest of their life but i take your point.

I am happy being average and trying to get better than average but also enjoying what i eat and making my girlfriend and kid happy. So if i eat foods i and my family enjoy and prefer such as white rice and potatoes tbe difference isnt huge and i'll still improve a lot which is all that matters to me as i dont want to be elite.

I do take your point though and maybe i shouldnt really concern myself the intricacies on here.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

ryda said:


> Tried that too bad but not as bad, basmati has a nice flavour to it anyway and smell, the only time I can eat brown rice is when it's coverd in sauce like chilli con carne or a curry


Curries are nice.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

jake87 said:


> what are your thoughts on what he said about eating fish because it "thins the skin"


Who said that? Phil or Dorian?

White fish has no fats so I can see how a diet of purely white fish would help 'thin the skin'

I know people who do diet like that and they are the grumpiest guys on diet lol


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

bigtommay said:


> Well i dont think a persons dedication to diet is diectly related to the quality of the rest of their life but i take your point.
> 
> I am happy being average and trying to get better than average but also enjoying what i eat and making my girlfriend and wife happy. So if i eat foods i and my family enjoy and prefer such as white rice and potatoes tbe difference isnt huge and i'll still improve a lot which is all that matters to me as i dont want to be elite.
> 
> I do take your point though and maybe i shouldnt really concern myself the intricacies on here.


I don't mean average in a derogatory way. When I'm off season my dedication to diet is just above average. When I diet I am more focussed.

I have a family and daughter and I make sure when I'm not dieting I enjoy all the treats I want. I just don't have a really sweet tooth. I enjoy fruit more than ice cream.

There are people that completely live bbing all year I think if your income doesn't come from being a comp bber or a job where your physique must be spot on all the time then you shouldn't sacrifice family for the sake of a type of rice unless you prefer the taste of course


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

lol


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> I don't think they CLEARLY show that. Seeing as Paul has provided studies that counter your argument.
> 
> It's very frustrating when people constantly quote studies and rely on them to back up their argument as fact.
> 
> ...


I think you are missing the point. Or more than likely not articulating myself correctly.

The studies are conflicting and for something to be gospel you would expect more correlation.

We have Phil heath and Dorien on one side and Alan Aragon and Alberto nunez on the other. There is no way you can say one food is better than the other. That is a fact. However there is dogma attached to both of opposide powers


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> I don't mean average in a derogatory way. When I'm off season my dedication to diet is just above average. When I diet I am more focussed.
> 
> I have a family and daughter and I make sure when I'm not dieting I enjoy all the treats I want. I just don't have a really sweet tooth. I enjoy fruit more than ice cream.
> 
> There are people that completely live bbing all year I think if your income doesn't come from being a comp bber or a job where your physique must be spot on all the time then you shouldn't sacrifice family for the sake of a type of rice unless you prefer the taste of course


You bustard! You quoted me when i said girlfriend and wife before i got to change it :lol:

Dont know what i was thinking, i dont have both... honest lol.

But yeah i wholeheartedly agree with all of what you say there mate.


----------



## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

Well I don't think these foods are over rated at all, they may not be needed by most but are far from over rated, I think the thread title was worded wrong.

I know for a fact that I feel better and stay fuller for longer eating wholegrain basmati than I do white basmati for example, or oats over ice cream etc..

These foods added to your diet would be a good addition if you want to be healthy and look decent, yes you could eat other alternatives and still get good results but the foods you listed, well some of them are really quite good and again a long way from being over rated imo.


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> I think you are missing the point. Or more than likely not articulating myself correctly.
> 
> The studies are conflicting and for something to be gospel you would expect more correlation.
> 
> We have Phil heath and Dorien on one side and Alan Aragon and Alberto nunez on the other. There is no way you can say one food is better than the other. That is a fact. However there is dogma attached to both of opposide powers


Hold on

You're the one that said the studies 'clearly' showed there was no difference. That's taking one argument as fact.

I never did this. In fact in my replies I have said that there's a case for both but also shown that two Mr Olympias have preferred brown rice on dieting to achieve their stage winning physique. Not saying that this was the only thing they did but everyone knows its not just one thing but a collection of things that make a stage winning physique.

I'm sure there's good bbers that use white rice.

I've never said that there's one right way to do things. But you infer there's NO difference when there's lots of evidence to the contrary.


----------



## need2bodybuild (May 11, 2011)

I think simonthepieman just wants to justify eating a bit of naughty stuff :nono:


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Hold on
> 
> You're the one that said the studies 'clearly' showed there was no difference. That's taking one argument as fact.
> 
> ...


There's very little evidence to the contrary, we both have just high lighted it. I've never stated there's no difference. I am saying the extracted value is negligible. And the benefits of that food, in this case rice, can be extracted from other foods more efficiently.

You've cited expert sources. I've cited expert sources. Even these guys can't agree. What chance do we have? :beer:

I think a lot of this is coming down to what the terming of 'overrated', which is fair enough. Some people seem to agree, a few don't, that's cool. We've all seen a lot of interesting debate we can all take something from (I hope, i know i have)



need2bodybuild said:


> I think simonthepieman just wants to justify eating a bit of naughty stuff :nono:


I need know justification in eating naughty stuff. I am a pieman. I devour all!!!!! :lol:


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

simonthepieman said:


> There's very little evidence to the contrary, we both have just high lighted it. I've never stated there's no difference. I am saying the extracted value is negligible. And the benefits of that food, in this case rice, can be extracted from other foods more efficiently.
> 
> You've cited expert sources. I've cited expert sources. Even these guys can't agree. What chance do we have? :beer:
> 
> ...


To be fair mate the one study you sited was carried out on 5 yes 5 people for a duration of just over 3 weeks in total as studies go that is pathetic and to be fair could not be used to prove any point, as the subject range was not varied enough nor the duration.....

To be honest mate a study of this type would not be worthy of using in a undergraduate course it is flawed in many many ways and should not be used as fact


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

am still very interested in cutting protein shakes 3 weeks out..


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

@Pscarb you've convinced me to switch from white rice to brown ha

Iv just been in supermarket and there is "brown rice" and "whole grain brown rice" does it matter which one i get, the whole grain was pricey?

Also gonna switch the cheap ass peanut butter for the more expesive one, with no sugar or palm oil

And iv been using a new oil (it was on offer) is called "carotino healthier cooking oil" and is 75% canola and 25% red palm fruit oil, says it full of omega 3. & 6, this sound good better the evoo?


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Whole grain brown basmati in Sainsbury's is my choice. £1.75 per kilo I think.


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> Whole grain brown basmati in Sainsbury's is my choice. £1.75 per kilo I think.


Nice one Tom, ill get that then

I don't understand why people are disagreing with you and Paul, can they not see your avi pics? Haha

What do you think about the canola oil? Iv been eyeing up ubo oil but its a rip off

Cheers


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

Everyone's got a right to an opinion. But it's got to be backed up by knowledge.

Paul's a better person to comment on the oil. Udos is a good product IMO


----------



## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

Palm oil has an acid I think that converts/behaves like a trans fat. I remember @hackskii saying it before when I asked about whole earth peanut butter.


----------



## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

jayDP said:


> I don't understand why people are disagreing with you and Paul, can they not see your avi pics? Haha


Isn't that the point that's been made about 20 times though

These things may make a difference to a competitive bodybuilder but to us normal folk who aren't doing the other 99% of stuff that they're doing, switching to brown rice isn't going to make a difference..


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

am right?! unprocesed food is digesting longer, but it makes you fuller.. where's shakes are procesed and doesn't fill u up + they mess u up a bit, as muscle building will be in process when cutting should be in order first.. .. and rice cakes are only good for carb loading just before competition as they are procesed?!


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

L11 said:


> Isn't that the point that's been made about 20 times though
> 
> These things may make a difference to a competitive bodybuilder but to us normal folk who aren't doing the other 99% of stuff that they're doing, switching to brown rice isn't going to make a difference..


Fair enough

But am trying to get as big as possible, I wanna compete so spending a few extra pennie and buying slightly better food will help, haven't tried this brown rice yet I might hate it haha


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

jayDP said:


> @Pscarb you've convinced me to switch from white rice to brown ha
> 
> Iv just been in supermarket and there is "brown rice" and "whole grain brown rice" does it matter which one i get, the whole grain was pricey?
> 
> ...


As Tom has said the basmati whole grain is much nicer than standard brown rice, I am not sure on that oil but I prefer to stick with Macadamia, EVOO or coconut oil

Thing is people are homing in on the brown rice and keep making the point that they would not see the difference but that is not the point it is an accumulated effect given all the foods that have been spoken about in this thread, brown(whole grain for white rice, natural PB for normal, sweet spud for white spud etc etc........as I mentioned earlier because you cannot put a weight gain figure on these changes people don't care and feel they are not worth the hassle but people like me and Tom did not just wake up one day and switch over then look like we do.....it has been done over time with each of these little things making a contribution (all be it a small one)

I have been very ILL this year with a severe case of shingles, kidney biopsy and a elbow injury yet I am growing gaining weight and getting leaner.....why?? Because the small things count.......


----------



## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

Pscarb said:


> I have been very ILL this year with a severe case of shingles, kidney biopsy and a elbow injury yet I am growing gaining weight and getting leaner.....why?? Because the small things count.......


I was at a talk where Paul O'Connell was on about his training for the Irish and Munster teams. He said the small goals and changes all add up when you reach the main goal.


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

defo gonna load up with rice cakes.. 5x100g the day before.. wanna be dry like never before..

and when it comes to 4 weeks out, it's not the time to experiment with sweet potatoes and etc.. everyone is different


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

thanks Tom for tips, defo cutting protein and switching to brown rice helps.. i've got plans for the water game for the last week, and not sure about potassium intake, what's your thoughts on this?


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

sauliuhas said:


> thanks Tom for tips, defo cutting protein and switching to brown rice helps.. i've got plans for the water game for the last week, and not sure about potassium intake, what's your thoughts on this?


I don't mess about with potassium dosing.

My best dry condition was in 2005 and all I did for the last few days was oats white potato chicken carb up.

Then had a half a diazide the night before.

In the morning I had a bowl of oats and that was pretty much it till I had a lucozade backstage before pumping up.

Another way was the Portsmouth show which is my Avatar photo. @Pscarb helped me in the last few weeks cos i tend to go mental overthinking things. I used aldactone for 3 days carbing up and a big meal of steak and chips the night before. Then half a cheesecake in the morning. That day I was pretty much one of the best conditions I've been in although I could have lost a tiny bit more on my back. Still won though.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sauliuhas said:


> thanks Tom for tips, defo cutting protein and switching to brown rice helps.. i've got plans for the water game for the last week, *and not sure about potassium intake, what's your thoughts on this*?


don't play around with minerals buddy this includes sodium far more fail than succeed when doing this type of thing


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yas, echo what the guys say about potassium, too low, or too high can disrupt heart rhythm and you don't want to play with that.


----------



## bigtommay (Jun 26, 2012)

But that damn ronnie coleman, he had no time for the plain brown rice, the sweet potatoes or the veg.

He loved french fries, lots of sauce lots of cheese no veg. He was a fun guy.

How good could that guy have been if he'd did things right? waste of talent :laugh:


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> I don't mess about with potassium dosing.
> 
> My best dry condition was in 2005 and all I did for the last few days was oats white potato chicken carb up.
> 
> ...


so basically, **** loading worked for u the best? what about the water intake, for the last week, my plan is 4 ltr till friday, sat 1ltr, sunday only zipping


----------



## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

sauliuhas said:


> so basically, **** loading worked for u the best? what about the water intake, for the last week, my plan is 4 ltr till friday, sat 1ltr, sunday only zipping


Both the methods worked for me it's trial and error.

Water intake I think I hit about 6 litres in the run up and drop to 2 litres on the Saturday. I also use vit c as a diuretic.


----------



## Professorx (Mar 24, 2013)

I debated with a friend earlier about solid and non solid food. During a day, I drink one shake morning, before training, pwo, before bed. My friend, him, drink just one shake pwo. Eating solid food up the body temp, slower to digest than liquid food, more energetics expenses caused by the digestion etc... ok...

Ok eating food is good, but however this food must be clean. What abiut heavy metal in box of tuna ? antibiotics in beef and chicken, bad quality of eggs from usines etc...

I m ok to focus the diet to solid food but not bad quality solid food.

Then, cottage cheese before bed... it contains calcium caseine assimilated at 20% by the body, its a bad quality of protein. Thats why I prefer to drink my miscellar casein with some almonds.


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah, that is what I want to do, drink my dinner. :lol:

Last night I had Parmesan, Panko chicken, with zucchini, dipped in butter garlic paste, with parmesan/panko coating, then baked in the oven to a perfect texture.

Perhaps I should have had a shake instead of that lovely dinner that smelled, and tasted like a piece of heaven.


----------



## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

hackskii said:


> Yah, that is what I want to do, drink my dinner. :lol:
> 
> Last night I had Parmesan, Panko chicken, with zucchini, dipped in butter garlic paste, with parmesan/panko coating, then baked in the oven to a perfect texture.
> 
> Perhaps I should have had a shake instead of that lovely dinner that smelled, and tasted like a piece of heaven.


Yeah but when your lunch is eggs repeatly, you might want a shake


----------



## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

gummyp said:


> Yeah but when your lunch is eggs repeatly, you might want a shake


No kidding, my wife makes all my meals, and when her budget for groceries gets low, I eat eggs, and end up eating them almost every day.

What do you think I have for lunch today, I will give you one guess? :lol:

So, if that be the case, you can guess what I am going to have till next paycheck a week away..Doh!!!!!!!!


----------



## sauliuhas (Dec 29, 2008)

Tinytom said:


> I don't mess about with potassium dosing.
> 
> My best dry condition was in 2005 and all I did for the last few days was oats white potato chicken carb up.
> 
> ...


I believe that, steak and chips would suit me best, so I want to try that, how about water spillage? and bloated stomach, didn't u get that? the show is next sunday in london, still a bit of time to get cut..

but doubt about the cheezcake lol


----------

