# What happens when we die?



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Quite a morbid thread but been trying to get my head around this one and can't for the life of me understand it. What happens when we die? I don't believe in God/heaven all that sort of stuff, but I also find it hard to understand nothingness.

Anyone have any insights or views? Would be interested to hear what others think


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

true Christians go to heaven and the rest of yous burn in hell. end of story


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## banjodeano (Jan 9, 2011)

I'll send you a message when i get to the other side buddy....


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Loveleelady said:


> true Christians go to heaven and the rest of yous burn in hell. end of story


Not sure if serious or :lol:


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## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

Personally believe your life essence passes to another place, where that is or whats its like i dont know but i can't accept that there's nothing after we die-can't prove it but in the same respect no one can prove it doesn't happen, each to their own.


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## husky (Jan 31, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> Not sure if serious or :lol:


she's serious


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## Ackee&amp;Saltfish (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm simple, either get buried body decomposes and thats the end of you if you chose to get cremated your loved one carries some old dirt in a fancy jar for sometime and again it's still the end of you..


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## QUEST (Sep 26, 2009)

as sad as it seems i think there is nothing ..ever bin knocked out then a flash of light then nothing ... but you dont wake up that what i think. ... :scared:


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Not sure if serious or :lol:


itsokay still time for you to join the onewayticket to heaven bus


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

LER said:


> as sad as it seems i think there is nothing ..ever bin knocked out then a flash of light then nothing ... but you dont wake up that what i think. ... :scared:


I just find it hard to get my head around "nothing".... I like to understand things, and I just can't understand there being nothing... I don't believe in an afterlife or anything like that, once it's over it's probably over, but trying to imagine that is difficult :/

I'm pinning all my hopes on being able to transfer my brain to a machine and living forever tbh :lol:


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

Worm food


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## BBaddict (Dec 2, 2008)

Worth listening through, very insightful guy


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Loveleelady said:


> itsokay still time for you to join the onewayticket to heaven bus


I just find the concept of a god illogical. I know people say it's not about logic, it's about faith, but if the world worked on faith then no-one would look before crossing the road. Also, if god is all powerful but allows evils to happen, he is either not all powerful and unable to prevent them, or allows them to happen, and worshipping a malevolent god who masquerades human tragedy as the impact of "free will" seems a bit silly.


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## vtec_yo (Nov 30, 2011)

The same as before you're born.

Nothing.


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)




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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

From my multitude of phsychedelic trips and many, many hours pondering this my money is on something similar to the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It basically says you will be reincarnated if you hold too much attachment to the physical world in a body of your choosing...unless you realise your true nature that you are one with everything and everything you see is only a projection from your mind.

There is only consciousness (mind), and at the very core every living thing in existence is the same mind. What you want to do is go back to the source (Nirvana) where you are at peace with everything and you have no desires.

Think of each being as a rain drop that has it's own form for a limited time but in the end they all end up part of the same ocean of water. It's hard to grasp this unless you've experienced the concept of eternity. Time doesn't exist there is only this moment...but there will always be a place for those that are not ready to give up the rollercoaster of illusions that is the physical world, but in the end they will end up part of the whole again...it's inevitable.

Of course I could be totally wrong about all this but this is what my money is going on.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hudson said:


> Worm food


I know that's what happens to the physical, but if you think about it our conciousness is only due to electricity passing through our brain, and energy can not be created or destroyed - it is always there. I dunno I'm so confused.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

anabolik said:


> From my multitude of phsychedelic trips and many, many hours pondering this my money is on something similar to the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It basically says you will be reincarnated if you hold too much attachment to the physical world in a body of your choosing...unless you realise your true nature that you are one with everything and everything you see is only a projection from your mind.
> 
> There is only consciousness (mind), and at the very core every living thing in existence is the same mind. What you want to do is go back to the source (Nirvana) where you are at peace with everything and you have no desires.
> 
> ...


I would kill for that to be true mate I really would, but without actual evidence I don't really believe much these days. Would be awesome if it were true though, guess one day we'll find out!


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

is you on an alcohol blues come down? this seems like deep ****


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Loveleelady said:


> is you on an alcohol blues come down? this seems like deep ****


I'm a thinker, I like to understand things


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> I'm a thinker, I like to understand things


ooo .... but u can't understand this as nobody but jesus ever came back from the other side?

maybe u shud read the bible get the answers u need...mite be better than here lol


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> energy can not be created or destroyed - it is always there. I dunno I'm so confused.


errr what? the petrol in my car gets destroyed when i put my foot down or am i paying £1.36 a litre for no reason? Must be a hole in my tank


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

We come back and haunt people


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hudson said:


> errr what? the petrol in my car gets destroyed when i put my foot down or am i paying £1.36 a litre for no reason? Must be a hole in my tank


The petrol does, but the energy doesn't it just transfers to a different state. the first law of themordynamics states that energy can neither be created or destroyed.


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

We turn into a pile of compost, that's it

in the past 10 years I was in coma twice, on the brink of death, no brain activity heart beat for a few minutes etc trust me there is no bright light, funny voices, virgins.. there is only game over after it...

chill, you're overthinking it


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Loveleelady said:


> ooo .... but u can't understand this as nobody but jesus ever came back from the other side?
> 
> maybe u shud read the bible get the answers u need...mite be better than here lol


Serious question, how do you KNOW the bible isn't just BS wrote by scared people who had no understanding of the world around them so made up some stories that at the time made sense. You say Jesus came back, how do you know this? Because it's written in a book. O.K.

Also, religion depends entirely on where you were born and how you were raised, there is no universal religion, there are many, thousands out there. Are you saying that ALL of them are wrong except the one that you happen to believe to be true.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> I would kill for that to be true mate I really would, but without actual evidence I don't really believe much these days. Would be awesome if it were true though, guess one day we'll find out!


I've actually experienced the state of Nirvana whilst on a solo trip of mushrooms. Was absolutely mind blowing...I was in a place (or state of mind) where I had no desire, there was no past, no future only the present moment and it was pure bliss. This has only happened once our of maybe 50 solo trips I've had. I felt my ego slipping away, I was whirring round all the meaningless sh1t I think in day to day life to keep it alive (my ego) and then the last defence it has is telling you if you let go you will never come back...I thought if I let go of these thoughts my mum would come into my room the next day and find me as a vegetable and I'd live the rest of my life in a ward somewhere...I thought fvck it and let go and immediately the bullsh1t thoughts vanished and I was in the place people call Nirvana. Not sure how long it lasted as your concept of time goes out the window lol

And then there's the spontanious kundalini experience I had that was like a lightning bolt shot through my head...I was never the same after that.

I don't tell this to many people as you can probably imagine you'd get some very strange reactions...I feel privileged to have had these experiences though as some people strive their whole lives to attain these states and they were simply given to me without asking.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

BetterThanYou said:


> We turn into a pile of compost, that's it
> 
> in the past 10 years I was in coma twice, on the brink of death, no brain activity heart beat for a few minutes etc trust me there is no bright light, funny voices, virgins.. there is only game over after it...
> 
> chill, you're overthinking it


Lol I don't like not knowing, I like to be able to understand things which is why I read a lot about science etc. I think it's a shame if I'd have to die without seeing what's actually out there, we're a tiny speck in the solar system, which is part of millions of other solar systems in the galaxy, which is part of billions of other galaxies... too much unknowns I want to learn about before going :lol:


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> The petrol does, but the energy doesn't it just transfers to a different state. the first law of themordynamics states that energy can neither be created or destroyed.


I don't get it. Energy can come from burning fuel, you can grow fuel, wood for example.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hudson said:


> I don't get it. Energy can come from burning fuel, you can grow fuel, wood for example.


It's explained quite well here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Serious question, how do you KNOW the bible isn't just BS wrote by scared people who had no understanding of the world around them so made up some stories that at the time made sense. You say Jesus came back, how do you know this? Because it's written in a book. O.K.
> 
> Also, religion depends entirely on where you were born and how you were raised, there is no universal religion, there are many, thousands out there. Are you saying that ALL of them are wrong except the one that you happen to believe to be true.


I dunno I don't over analyse it all...makes me and my family happy havin a faith and live in a nice Christian community where people look after each other...lovely way to live...nice sense of belonging...and having a faith makes me feel good...I just believe always have....don't expect you or anyone else too... less of u do more room for us in heaven lols


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> I know that's what happens to the physical, but if you think about it our conciousness is only due to electricity passing through our brain, and energy can not be created or destroyed - it is always there. I dunno I'm so confused.


Your consciousness is an emergent property of patterns of neurons firing in the brain. These patterns rely on the neurons being in working order. When they stop firing, a cloud of energy doesn't just float off somewhere else to continue its existence; the patterns stop too. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed from one form to another, and in this case a puddle of disintegrating chemical neurotransmitters is a valid form.

I think your inability to grasp oblivion is possibly because you're trying to imagine what it will be like? You won't be able to imagine that because by definition it's not something we can ever experience and there's no coherent frame of reference for it.

I really wouldn't worry about being dead, you're not going to be in any state to suffer regret or embarrassment. And if it turns out that you are... well chances are the universe isn't so crappily designed that your conscious mind will burn forever just because you ate shellfish or didn't stone gay people to death.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Hudson said:


> I don't get it. Energy can come from burning fuel, you can grow fuel, wood for example.


The wood is a form of stored energy. When you ignite it, you start a chemical reaction between the wood and oxygen in the air. Much of the energy stored in the fuel source (the wood) is transformed into heat energy during that reaction.


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## Edinburgh (Sep 2, 2012)

nothing, your born, you live, you die

(God) - pun intended, that was morbid!

Push yourself, take chances, regret nothing - learn from mistakes as a character builder, and enjoy life!

Oh and take a sh!t load of AAS in the process


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wavelength said:


> Your consciousness is an emergent property of patterns of neurons firing in the brain. These patterns rely on the neurons being in working order. When they stop firing, a cloud of energy doesn't just float off somewhere else to continue its existence; the patterns stop too. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed from one form to another, and in this case a puddle of disintegrating chemical neurotransmitters is a valid form.
> 
> I think your inability to grasp oblivion is possibly because you're trying to imagine what it will be like? You won't be able to imagine that because by definition it's not something we can ever experience and there's no coherent frame of reference for it.
> 
> I really wouldn't worry about being dead, you're not going to be in any state to suffer regret or embarrassment. And if it turns out that you are... well chances are the universe isn't so crappily designed that your *conscious mind will burn forever just because you ate shellfish or didn't stone gay people to death*.


Aha damn I'd best get to hating gays straight away then :lol:

Doesn't the thought scare you? I know there's literally nothing to be scared of, since there won't be ANYTHING, but the absence of conciousness scares me pretty badly.


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## F.M.J (Mar 23, 2009)

You become worm food.


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> It's explained quite well here
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics


It goes on about "isolated systems" is the universe included in that? But then would the afterlife also be included, i'd of thought that was stretching it a bit?


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Lol I don't like not knowing, I like to be able to understand things which is why I read a lot about science etc. I think it's a shame if I'd have to die without seeing what's actually out there, we're a tiny speck in the solar system, which is part of millions of other solar systems in the galaxy, which is part of billions of other galaxies... too much unknowns I want to learn about before going :lol:


I know your pain mate, I'm the same.. just enjoy your life do what makes you happy, there is absolutely no point of worrying or thinking about it


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

Wavelength said:


> The wood is a form of stored energy. When you ignite it, you start a chemical reaction between the wood and oxygen in the air. Much of the energy stored in the fuel source (the wood) is transformed into heat energy during that reaction.


I get that, but the seed that the tree grows from that creates that fuel and hence that energy? Energy has been created, no?


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hudson said:


> I get that, but the seed that the tree grows from that creates that fuel and hence that energy? Energy has been created, no?


What creates the seed? Nutrients and energy from the sun. What creates the nutrients? Well every atom except hydrogen is created in the core of stars after nuclear fusion fuses lighter nuclei to make heavier nuclei (Like carbon, nitrogen etc)

Complicated but once you get your head round it, it makes sense


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Hudson said:


> I get that, but the seed that the tree grows from that creates that fuel and hence that energy? Energy has been created, no?


The tree grows by assimilating matter as gasses, water, and micro-nutrients from the soil, and reacting them with energy collected from sunlight. Photons enter the leaf and collide with chlorophyll which eventually results in energy stored as carbohydrates (Wiki photosynthesis). Again, it's all chemical reactions.

Think of energy as a universal currency for doing work. It can be represented in chemical form, as heat, motion or electricity, or even exist just as a potential.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

BetterThanYou said:


> I know your pain mate, I'm the same.. just enjoy your life do what makes you happy, there is absolutely no point of worrying or thinking about it


Lol I'm honestly planning on transferring my brain to a machine. The Japanese are already working on it, I believe they already managed it with a mouse brain but I may be wrong. Still lots of work to do, looking at over 30 years probably but if it ever becomes possible


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Aha damn I'd best get to hating gays straight away then :lol:
> 
> Doesn't the thought scare you? I know there's literally nothing to be scared of, since there won't be ANYTHING, but the absence of conciousness scares me pretty badly.


I wouldn't say scared exactly, more like ****ed off at the inevitable inconvenience. And also not seeing how it all turns out. And also the fact that I'll be dead just before all the really cool stuff starts to happen in the human story.


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

Blimey, I have had this going on for years. A right headmasher it is.

All I could say is, that on one hand we have the bible and those who believe in every word of it, and on the other hand we have athiesm which flatly rejects it. There is only one belief system that we have all been brought up on at some stage of our lives, not always by parents, but by the basics of christmas, easter etc... and nobody has any alternative other than atheism. The bible has only ever been written by man and only man has said they are the words of god etc... yeah right!. Who wrote it?. Always easier to point the finger at God regardless. Lets them off the hook - give us a break!. Do we all have to wait for Jesus to return to raise us all from the ground? pmsl. Born again Christians should be flogged and denounced for their sickening diabolical diatribe which passes off as a belief system. Bloody hate the evil scum... Churches are no better either. How can anyone just accept what a bloke wrote in a book to be the end all?. Nuts isn't it?.

Nobody can prove there is no God and nobody can prove that there is or even was. It all comes down to the same problem. Physics. To date, not one single scientist has been able to explain what causes gravity. Until someone comes along with the difinitive answer, it will remain unanswered. Much the same can be said for God, afterlife etc... but it has to be said, there is far more evidence pointing to an afterlife of some sort, rather than evidence against it imo.

I know people who have actually died and come back and have been able to describe what they saw. Ahh, then along would come some shrink or other brain expert and claim the brain and its chemicals cause this. Ok, lets have an experiment - lets smack one of 'em and knock 'em spark out, then when they come round, ask if they saw anything. You can bet every penny you have that they wont. Yet somehow the brain can see with closed eyes, and hear when the ears don't work. This only happens when you are bleedin well DEAD!. Wow!. So, therefore, what is it or how are people who are dead, able to describe accurately what is going on???.

Plenty of literature out there about life after kicking the bucket. Only then could anyone try make heads or tails out of it.


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## Hudson (Nov 30, 2012)

Wavelength said:


> The tree grows by assimilating matter as gases, water, and micro-nutrients from the soil, and reacting them with energy collected from sunlight. Photons enter the leaf and collide with chlorophyll which eventually results in energy stored as carbohydrates (Wiki photosynthesis). Again, it's all chemical reactions.
> 
> Think of energy as a universal currency for doing work. It can be represented in chemical form, as heat, motion or electricity, or even exist just as a potential.





Leeds89 said:


> What creates the seed? Nutrients and energy from the sun. What creates the nutrients? Well every atom except hydrogen is created in the core of stars after nuclear fusion fuses lighter nuclei to make heavier nuclei (Like carbon, nitrogen etc)
> 
> Complicated but once you get your head round it, it makes sense


Thanks guys, makes sense now :surrender:


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## Tommy10 (Feb 17, 2009)

We go back to where we came from


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

huckfead said:


> To date, not one single scientist has been able to explain what causes gravity. Until someone comes along with the difinitive answer, it will remain unanswered.


It's explained by the field equations in the general theory of relativity. In quantum mechanics it's explained by graviton exchange, but the theory falls short* around the Planck length.

* physics puns are the best.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wavelength said:


> It's explained by the field equations in the general theory of relativity. In quantum mechanics it's explained by graviton exchange, but the theory falls short* around the Planck length.
> 
> * physics puns are the best.


You work in the science industry mate?


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## SILV3RBACK (Jun 23, 2012)

I reckon you will get a choice. Do you take the red pill or the blue one


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## trololoDROL (Jan 27, 2013)

This thread will be a free cherry picking festival for the UK-M trolls haha, i can feel it.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> You work in the science industry mate?


No, I did three sciences at A-level followed by a science degree, then kept my hand in (and learned quite a lot) administrating a large science forum for nearly ten years. Weirdly I hated physics at school but since I stopped being "taught" it and could get to grips with it on my own terms, I now have a real appreciation for its elegance and the way it basically underpins... well... everything. And it's true, physicists really do have all the best puns! :thumb:


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

SILV3RBACK said:


> I reckon you will get a choice. Do you take the red pill or the blue one


I really hope Laurence Fishburne isn't waiting for us all.


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

Wavelength said:


> It's explained by the field equations in the general theory of relativity. In quantum mechanics it's explained by graviton exchange, but the theory falls short* around the Planck length.
> 
> * physics puns are the best.


Question still stands - 'what causes it'?. Would like to know more, as I understand it to be a theory only, not difinitive.

As I understand it, word is, that quantum physics could well provide the answer the OP is looking for.


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## huarache (May 28, 2012)

anabolik said:


> From my multitude of phsychedelic trips and many, many hours pondering this my money is on something similar to the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It basically says you will be reincarnated if you hold too much attachment to the physical world in a body of your choosing...unless you realise your true nature that you are one with everything and everything you see is only a projection from your mind.
> 
> There is only consciousness (mind), and at the very core every living thing in existence is the same mind. What you want to do is go back to the source (Nirvana) where you are at peace with everything and you have no desires.
> 
> ...


Can you explain this mate? It's hard for me to understand and I'm genuinely interested


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

huckfead said:


> Question still stands - 'what causes it'?. Would like to know more, as I understand it to be a theory only, not difinitive.


Well yeah, but in science a "theory" is a model of how a system works which provides empirical evidence from testable predictions, which is about as good as it gets in terms of having certain knowledge.

In general relativity masses cause the curvature of spacetime which is what draws them together, if you know the 2D "rubber sheet" analogy you already have the basic idea. I only have a limited understanding of quantum physics but I gather the graviton is some kind of quantum exchange particle. This is the problem with physics - the explanation is there but you need to be trained for 12 years to understand it! Or maybe that's a problem with the education system.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

God/Jesus/religion  children's stories. Utter nonsense.

When you die that's it. Gone. Religion is there for the people who can't get their heads round that. The magic man in the sky will save us!


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## HAWKUS (Jan 11, 2012)

If you find it hard to understand nothingness...you were nothing befroe you were born,you are the same after you die......then you slowly rot.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

It really is pretty simple.

When you die.. your gone, nothing happens, you just dont exist, your nothing, nada, you cant think or wish you were alive or be sad that your are dead because your gone, your nothing.

science brah

If you want to believe in a good then fair enough (IMO its because you have either been forced/encouraged to as a child or by people around you, or are scared of death and want to believe you go somewhere when you die, which is obviously not the case) God is made up, and the Bible for example is just a very good and ancient book written by a guy ages ago, really good story, much like The Lord of The Rings, but we all know that golem and the ring aren't real, much like god.

The only reason we and all other animals are here and that have been here existed is because we are a planet the perfect distance from the sun which has water on it with existing compounds/minerals and bacteria, and when you have the correct temperature combined with water and minerals/bacteria things grow and over many many years living things have developed.

All just basic science really, there was no bearded man in space that put people here or pooped out jesus, were just in the right conditions for bacteria to grow and thus life to exist.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

sckeane said:


> Can you explain this mate? It's hard for me to understand and I'm genuinely interested


What part exactly do you want me to explain? I could write pages and pages on this stuff but it depends how deep and philosophical you want to get.


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Poke said:


> It really is pretty simple.
> 
> When you die.. your gone, nothing happens, you just dont exist, your nothing, nada, you cant think or wish you were alive or be sad that your are dead because your gone, your nothing.
> 
> ...


Hmm I agree, which is why I'm pinning my hopes on becoming an immortal "brain in a computer"


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

You get put in a box in the ground, or put in a box and set on fire. Cant believe noone actually knew that after 5 pages


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

There is a world beyond death, its a fact. all these people who speak to the dead (witnessed it so dont tell me it all a load of lies because its not) but i think theres a process as to these spirits, like how do u get to be a sprit and carrying on living in the after world. and, who goes dies and thats it, over


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Wings said:


> There is a world beyond death, its a fact. all these people who speak to the dead (witnessed it so dont tell me it all a load of lies because its not) but i think theres a process as to these spirits, like how do u get to be a sprit and carrying on living in the after world. and, who goes dies and thats it, over


If you believe it mate I honestly envy you, it's not a pleasant feeling thinking that one day it will all be over, not when I've only just started enjoying life and don't want it to end!


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Wings said:


> There is a world beyond death, its a fact. all these people who speak to the dead (witnessed it so dont tell me it all a load of lies because its not) but i think theres a process as to these spirits, like how do u get to be a sprit and carrying on living in the after world. and, who goes dies and thats it, over


Just making a note to ignore you from now on with you being completely mental


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

Ashcrapper said:


> Just making a note to ignore you from now on with you being completely mental


lol, why?


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Believing in god at this point is pretty much you refusing the complexity of the universe. I see nothing wrong with not rejecting the possibility of a god existing, but there isn't really any evidence for you to be sure It exists, just things we aren't able to explain that people like to give credit to god instead of actually finding out what's going on.

It's amazing how god went from being a merciless monster hundreds of years ago to the nice guy he is today. Oddly, that merciless monster attitude god used to have is illegal today, is he afraid of jail?

If some omnipotent being created the universe, why isn't it perfect? Why intelligent life is so rare? God got lazy? Oparin's Hypothesis fits so much better as It shows how you need VERY specific conditions for it to happen and god isn't one of them. I'm glad scientists could prove higgs boson is there, they're getting closer and closer to show how the universe creation didn't require any sort of deity.

Going on topic, I don't believe in afterlife. You're dead and that's pretty much it. Evidence pretty much limit itself to people's near death experience and that simply isn't enough. Don't you think religion can have an impact on their "afterlife experience"? What they saw probably was as real as a dream but due to religion they try to give It some special meaning due to It occuring at a near death.


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> If you believe it mate I honestly envy you, it's not a pleasant feeling thinking that one day it will all be over, not when I've only just started enjoying life and don't want it to end!


its a fact, 2 things are 100% gonna happen in life, tax n death, just a matter of when and how mate. enjoy life whilst u can because one day were all just be a memory to people


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Wings said:


> lol, why?


Spirits, fairies blah blah. You are clearly not all there. It's ok though, whatever makes you happy


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ujelly said:


> Believing in god at this point is pretty much you refusing the complexity of the universe. I see nothing wrong with not rejecting the possibility of a god existing, but there isn't really any evidence for you to be sure It exists, just things we aren't able to explain that people like to give credit to god instead of actually finding out what's going on.
> 
> It's amazing how god went from being a merciless monster hundreds of years ago to the nice guy he is today. Oddly, that merciless monster attitude god used to have is illegal today, is he afraid of jail?
> 
> ...


Nicely put. Although the "isn't really" any evidence would be better described as "no evidence"


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

If someone relates to you the experiences they had while dead, all you can reasonably conclude is either that they don't know what dead means, or that the hospital equipment has a minimum detection threshold, both of which are logical and rational explanations which make testable predictions.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Well lets bring it on to your next question (Im guessing) *do aliens exists?*

Im 100% positive they do, the chance that in space there are no other planets which have water on with the correct temperature for bacteria to grow is IMO nil, but I bet they are all just weird looking dumb animals, hence the reason we haven't seen any super technology advance species come over to our planet, or they could just be watching us, or we could be their experiment, they could have came to this planet before humans existed, killed off all the dinosaurs and dropped off a load of ape looking humans they actually got from another planet and watched what happened.

See to most religious people, the question of "do aliens exist" sounds retarded to them, when in reality, its the other way round, "does god exist" is to IMO normal smart people synonymous with "Does the tooth fairy exist?" But Aliens are a dead cert of probability. This alone will make any religious person second guess their beliefs.


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

Ashcrapper said:


> Spirits, fairies blah blah. You are clearly not all there. It's ok though, whatever makes you happy


not fairies, just spirits mate. ive witnessed a man, give a reading on my gf's best mate who was a guy who was gay, they lived miles apart, never seen or spoke to each other, we never spoke about him and he sat there in a chair and said ' geoff theres a guy standing next to u, surrounded by water, been worse for wear, dirty etc etc, turns out it was his grandad who he never met and died during the war in london docks, bomb blast. then, the bit what got me tearer was the fact that geoff lost his mum due to cancer when he was 7 years old, n guess who had their had on geoffs left shoulder, his mum! upsetting wasnt the word. its fine, if u dont believe in it, id never call u indeniel or stupid or what ever, but i know theres a after life, how long people are in that period for no one knows or even how u get there. i dont believe in god or reincarnation though


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

Poke said:


> Well lets bring it on to your next question (Im guessing) *do aliens exists?*
> 
> Im 100% positive they do, the chance that in space there are no other planets which have water on with the correct temperature for bacteria to grow is IMO nil, but I bet they are all just weird looking dumb animals, hence the reason we haven't seen any super technology advance species come over to our planet, or they could just be watching us, or we could be their experiment, they could have came to this planet before humans existed, killed off all the dinosaurs and dropped off a load of ape looking humans they actually got from another planet and watched what happened.
> 
> See to most religious people, the question of "do aliens exist" sounds retarded to them, when in reality, its the other way round, "does god exist" is to IMO normal smart people synonymous with "Does the tooth fairy exist?" But Aliens are a dead cert of probability. This alone will make any religious person second guess their beliefs.


i think we'd be foolish to believe that were the only ones in the universe, although i cant say i have witnessed anything but somethings cant be explained


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Wings said:


> not fairies, just spirits mate. ive witnessed a man, give a reading on my gf's best mate who was a guy who was gay, they lived miles apart, never seen or spoke to each other, we never spoke about him and he sat there in a chair and said ' geoff theres a guy standing next to u, surrounded by water, been worse for wear, dirty etc etc, turns out it was his grandad who he never met and died during the war in london docks, bomb blast. then, the bit what got me tearer was the fact that geoff lost his mum due to cancer when he was 7 years old, n guess who had their had on geoffs left shoulder, his mum! upsetting wasnt the word. its fine, if u dont believe in it, id never call u indeniel or stupid or what ever, but i know theres a after life, how long people are in that period for no one knows or even how u get there. i dont believe in god or reincarnation though


Surrounded by water eh? Lucky strike. Can't be many people who that could apply to. And cancer as well, rare to know someone who has died fron that disease. Truly inspiring stuff. Was the clairvoyants hand in your mates pocket by any chance?


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Wings said:


> i think we'd be foolish to believe that were the only ones in the universe, although i cant say i have witnessed anything but somethings cant be explained


I think the Japanese are alien/human cross breeds, I mean how the hell do they advance in technology so fast? I bet they have a secret underground leader called gong wan pawaney who gets all the tech stuff from the alien cheif.


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Wings said:


> not fairies, just spirits mate. ive witnessed a man, give a reading on my gf's best mate who was a guy who was gay, they lived miles apart, never seen or spoke to each other, we never spoke about him and he sat there in a chair and said ' geoff theres a guy standing next to u, surrounded by water, been worse for wear, dirty etc etc, turns out it was his grandad who he never met and died during the war in london docks, bomb blast. then, the bit what got me tearer was the fact that geoff lost his mum due to cancer when he was 7 years old, n guess who had their had on geoffs left shoulder, his mum! upsetting wasnt the word. its fine, if u dont believe in it, id never call u indeniel or stupid or what ever, but i know theres a after life, how long people are in that period for no one knows or even how u get there. i dont believe in god or reincarnation though


And the fact that cold readers have actually stated outright how people in their game do this doesn't come into it for you?

Come on dude.


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

ujelly said:


> Believing in god at this point is pretty much you refusing the complexity of the universe. I see nothing wrong with not rejecting the possibility of a god existing, but there isn't really any evidence for you to be sure It exists, just things we aren't able to explain that people like to give credit to god instead of actually finding out what's going on.
> 
> It's amazing how god went from being a merciless monster hundreds of years ago to the nice guy he is today. Oddly, that merciless monster attitude god used to have is illegal today, is he afraid of jail?
> 
> ...


Don't know why, but your post is in reply to mine according to notifications. If it was a 'wrong button click', we all make them sometimes. If it is in reply to my post, I cannot stand ****ers who cannot read and understand English and then post crap claiming I believe in God and refuse the complexity of the universe and even see wrong in people who reject the possibility of god existing. I hate born again christians should tell you alot.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Wavelength said:


> And the fact that cold readers have actually stated outright how people in their game do this doesn't come into it for you?
> 
> Come on dude.


There is no way he could have got such unique events right. Cold reading? Clearly spirits mate. Had their hand on his shoulder


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Ashcrapper said:


> There is no way he could have got such unique events right. Cold reading? Clearly spirits mate. Had their hand on his shoulder


I can see why the grieving and the vulnerable would accept it as a crutch, and reject the idea of their own gullibility, but an outside observer? Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggggghhhh :cursing: YOU CAN LEARN HOW TO DO IT AT THE LIBRARY! :2guns: :death: rant rant


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

huckfead said:


> Don't know why, but your post is in reply to mine according to notifications. If it was a 'wrong button click', we all make them sometimes. If it is in reply to my post, I cannot stand ****ers who cannot read and understand English and then post crap claiming I believe in God and refuse the complexity of the universe and even see wrong in people who reject the possibility of god existing. I hate born again christians should tell you alot.


It was wrong button click, sorry.


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

i know what cold reading it but when some guy, describes how ur mum looked when she was 7 years old. and he wasn't like 'did she have blonde hair..... or was it brown..... or was it ginger....' because yh id see ur point lol. there are 2 types of people who speak to the dead, there is people who visually see them and there are ones that have guides who pass messages through you which u then relate to the person being read. like i say, weather u believe it or not is down to u, but Niel who gave Geoff infomation about his grandad and his mum did not get 1 bit of information wrong.


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## achilles88 (Aug 27, 2010)

been thinking about this recently, not been able to sleep for past 3 days due to burying some one few days ago, i really sincerely hope theres something after this life. the only thing that makes me think that maybe there is is i've astral projected couple times in my life (by accident, didnt know wtf was going on until i researched and read into it).


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Wings said:


> i know what cold reading it but when some guy, describes how ur mum looked when she was 7 years old. and he wasn't like 'did she have blonde hair..... or was it brown..... or was it ginger....' because yh id see ur point lol. there are 2 types of people who speak to the dead, there is people who visually see them and there are ones that have guides who pass messages through you which u then relate to the person being read. like i say, weather u believe it or not is down to u, but Niel who gave Geoff infomation about his grandad and his mum did not get 1 bit of information wrong.


And nobody was suspicious that, except for the bits that there's no way of confirming like where people's spirit hands were, he was telling them stuff they already knew.

He would also have been supplanting things they would likely remember incorrectly. Cold reading isn't the only technique, these people know a thing or two about memory processing and the vast array of psychological defects/oddities that make people unreliable witnesses even to their own lives. And what they rely on most is the insistence of normal well-intentioned people that they couldn't possibly be "had".

Put that guy under controlled test conditions and his "bang on" answers will drop to normal randomised probability.

It. Happens. Every. Time.


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## raptordog (Oct 9, 2008)

Great thread....... :thumbup1:

Nice to see its a bank holiday again and the recreational drugs are kicking in abundance.......


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

btw, Poke, as I said, for intelligent life to happen very specific conditions need to occur so It isn't that absurd to think It has only occured on Earth. If we go by probability, that's very unlikely but not impossible. I'm pretty sure that scientists already found bacteria-like organisms on meteorites though.


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## Wings (May 1, 2011)

Wavelength said:


> And nobody was suspicious that, except for the bits that there's no way of confirming like where people's spirit hands were, he was telling them stuff they already knew.
> 
> He would also have been supplanting things they would likely remember incorrectly. Cold reading isn't the only technique, these people know a thing or two about memory processing and the vast array of psychological defects/oddities that make people unreliable witnesses even to their own lives. And what they rely on most is the insistence of normal well-intentioned people that they couldn't possibly be "had".
> 
> ...


understand what u r saying mate but this guy Niel was originally from Leeds and Geoff was from London, he'd not long been around in the area, why would someone talk about a grandad who died years ago, and more to the point about his mum! it was a sore subject for geoff in regards to his mum, he said other things about his grandad but he didnt know the answer too, the following day he phoned up his nan and got it all confirmed. any way, i could say till im blue in the face about what he said and ud never believe me, one day it'll happen to u and when it does ur understand 

for the record, i know a guy who was fully into his fighting, he used to meditate regularly until he had spirits trying to talk to him when he opened his mind. this guy is a cafe fighter, ripped to **** and isnt the type to wanna lie about something like that lol

Any way, peace out guys, its my bed time


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

You're talking about the things that were said as if they support their own truth. They aren't the evidence. They're the claim!

If the claim is that X was stated by a dead person's spirit, you can't evidence that claim just by repeating X.

If it's strange that this man could know X, then the simplest explanation is that his method is more sophisticated and subtle than any you can think of on short notice without the benefit of his trade secrets and years of experience at manipulating people.

Your first and best explanation should not be that there is a whole invisible world of magical spirits which only choose to interact with the living through a select few, who all just happen to charge vulnerable people for the privilege of communication and somehow only manage to pass on the minutiae of those who are not around to correct them.

When that's the explanation you are all too happy to settle on, it's time to get really interested in how your brain works and why man has spent centuries reasoning about reasoning.


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Wings, you're a vet here and I'm pretty sure you're familiarized with placebo effect... That's pretty much It.

It makes sense for me to put the blame on emotional instincts as they aren't rational. Why do ghosts only appear at dark, old and scary places? Why can't non rational anxiety conflict with our rational brain making our mind go into a "what if" mode? Why can't our brain create It's own stimuli to compensate for the lack of sensory stimuli due to darkness?

Someone claiming to see a spirit shouldn't be a good reason for anyone to believe in their existance, specially when there are probably other rational explanations that could work even better. You not knowing a rational explanation should never be a reason for you to believe in something though.

Some people try to use quantum physics and the existance of other dimensions to explain soul, ghosts and spirits but there is usually one article or two explaining how promising the theory actually is and It's left at that with no major progress afterwards.


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## SugaDaddy (Mar 22, 2013)

I just hope bloody Life Insurance clears my Mortgage so my family won't have to struggle.

Maybe 70 Virgins too?? :clap:


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Wavelength said:


> And the fact that cold readers have actually stated outright how people in their game do this doesn't come into it for you?
> 
> Come on dude.


I don't believe in god, not one bit. However I am a little bit of a believer in spirits. My wife is into the whole spirit thing, and we used to get fvck loads of noises in our house, footsteps up and down the stairs, loud bangs like one of the kids had fallen out of their bunk beds but when we went upstairs to check all asleep and I even saw, with my own eyes a stone, about the size of a pea fly across the room. On one occasion, while on the phone their was the sound of a loud bang and the noise of something being dragged across our wooden floor, that was so loud I heard it over the phone. The wife started screaming and I genuinely thought someone was breaking into the house. Always used to joke that it's probably a ghost or whatever, while the wife was sprinkling fvcking salt around the doorways etc, :lol: but I never really believed it. The final thing was my sister saying while babysitting that she saw the figure of a man appear in my house, and that was it, the wife was going on about getting someone round to give a reading! Eventually I gave in and this woman comes round, who was a friend of my wife's friend. She didn't charge us a penny, it was all free and a couple of days before I watched that Derren Brown show where he told you about cold calling and how it all works. This woman turns up and I'm thinking "I know your tricks". Well what happened next is still something I can't figure out.

She proceeded to tell us that she wouldn't look at us during the reading and told us we were only allowed to say the word OK to indicate to her that we had understood what she had said. She then said that she wanted to make it absolutely clear that we weren't to acknowledge whether or not what she said meant anything to us, but just to say OK, so that she knew she didn't have to repeat herself and then at the end we would analyse all the information. At this point I'm thinking "she's obviously just going to come out with loads of generic stuff and then at the end twist it to suit us". Well that didn't really happen. Now something to point out here is that I have never met the mutual friend between my wife and this reader. Also I'm not originally from the area we live in and none of my friends or family in this area know how my Granddad (that's who apparently came through) died, not even my mum (parents are split). She started to basically describe my Granddad perfectly, She said "6ft man, with dark hair, gelled back with a comb. He's wearing grey trousers and a polo shirt tucked in with a comb in his back pocket", which is exactly what my Granddad used to wear, everyday. Maybe a coincidence as I'm sure a lot of Granddads of people my age were like that. She then started talking about how he has a little Sh!tzu (dog) with him (which was his favourite dog) and then mentioned other things, just little things that I can't remember now, one of which was how he loved bowling (which my granddad did, he won loads of trophies and comps in it). She then said he's telling me that you won't believe it's him and that you don't really believe all this rubbish just like he wouldn't, which was true (at this point the reader is talking to both of us still because she doesn't know which one of us this relates to). Then she said "he's telling me he couldn't use his left arm for a while and had to use a machine to roll his cigarettes, he was very ill, paralysed down one side, but then started to get better, but was taken ill again and knew his time was coming. He took himself out of a hospital because he was ready to pass. He's telling me that when his time came he was happy and glad it was all over. He wanted to see his wife G (my nan's name was Jean) one more time so he called her and then passed happy. Now my wife didn't even know this at the time but my Granddad had a stroke and was paralysed down his left side. He eventually got some function back and was able to communicate a little and everyone thought he was making good progress. He then became ill, but then discharged himself from the hospital. A week later while lying in bed watching TV, he called my nan in to change the channel. She walked in and asked if he wanted anything else and he communicated "no, just switch the TV over please, love you." She turned away from him to turn the TV off and when she turned back he was dead. Which is pretty spot on to what the reader said, and she didn't look at me the whole time while saying any of this and it was my wife saying OK.

Then she said "he's telling me that you won't know what this is but eventually it will makes sense". She then said he was saying "he used to ride his bike for 2 hours to play rugby with a lady". She then also said that she was struggling to understand what he was telling her and could have that wrong. Well a few days later I spoke to my Nan and asked if she knew what the women said by riding his bike to play Rugby with a lady, and my Nan, who got a little emotional said that he used to ride his bike for 2 hours to meet her at a pub called The Rugby, because they met and then he moved while they were courting. She then said that my Granddad said "we should just do it" and pointed to our dining room table and said he thinks we should just stop fannying around and do what me and the wife were talking about at the table yesterday. We did have a conversation at that very spot the day before and were undecided what to do. She then looked up, for the first time in the reading and said directly to me I have a message specifically for you, and then said that he was watching over me etc, etc. The message she gave me was very specific. For a few weeks I'd been reluctant to tell the mrs about some problems I had at work which may have put us under financial strain. I had spoken to a close friend of mine about it and decided not to tell the wife so as not to worry her, but I was feeling bad about keeping it from her. The reader then said to me that message he had given her was (obviously she did this in private) "tell Tan about the money and stop worrying about it. As long as you have each other and the kids you'll be fine".

So that kind of made me a believer as I still cannot figure out how she could be so specific without looking at me and only listening to my wife, who knew none of those details, saying OK. Plus for most of it, my wife was really confused as she was hoping her dad would come through which was why we did it, so if the reader was using my wife's voice to try and determine what to say next she'd have been getting the wrong signals, but still managed to stay on track! It was fvcking spooky!!


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## McGuire86 (Nov 23, 2011)

Poke said:


> Well lets bring it on to your next question (Im guessing) *do aliens exists?*
> 
> or they could just be watching us, or we could be their experiment, they could have came to this planet before humans existed, killed off all the dinosaurs and dropped off a load of ape looking humans they actually got from another planet and watched what happened.


And you say religion is fiction but you come out with that statement ? Whatever you've been taking, it's time to knock it on the head.


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Mike, If that's true then It's amazing but I wouldn't discard the possibility of there being tricks involved. I'd like to point out that making you only say only "Ok" could be a method of avoiding too many questions that could prove she's a fraud. When she was done saying stuff you probably focused on things that she got right and not things that she got wrong.

I wasn't there but perhaps she was being a bit more vague then what you think and you just made the connections. There was some fraud claiming to be a time traveller a few years ago by the name of Zeshua on another forum and most of her predictions were so vague to the point where pretty much all of them could be right. Some strong believers made some huge posts showing how her predictions were right well... they weren't, they were vague bull**** that you could make it sound right.

You also were expecting generic bull****. There's the thing, pros most likely won't do generic bull****. David Copperfield is a pro magician and I doubt you can figure out how he does his magic tricks. Same goes for cold reading, If you're good at It, people won't notice the tricks, they won't know how you did It but you did, which will leave them into believing in what you say.


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## Bear2012 (Jan 19, 2012)

What if this life is Hell? We go round in an endless loop until we are worthy of something else?

Faith is just that believing in something you can't see. If there was evidence of God it would not be faith!

The bible I am sure has been written many times to reflect peoples impressions at that point in time and to give the upper hand

Life after death? I believe so the body is just a vessel your spirit moves on.

Aliens? I find it very hard to believe we are the only ones in the universe it would be unreal but I don't believe they are little green men who will be visiting us and probing us.....just yet lol


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## Ringspun (Mar 16, 2013)

Leeds89 said:


> I just find it hard to get my head around "nothing".... I like to understand things, and I just can't understand there being nothing... I don't believe in an afterlife or anything like that, once it's over it's probably over, but trying to imagine that is difficult :/
> 
> I'm pinning all my hopes on being able to transfer my brain to a machine and living forever tbh :lol:


I think a simple way to look at it is that there was nothing before you were born (or conceived anyway) and we just return to that state. It's difficult to understand something we haven't experienced.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

ujelly said:


> Mike, If that's true then It's amazing but I wouldn't discard the possibility of there being tricks involved. I'd like to point out that making you only say only "Ok" could be a method of avoiding too many questions that could prove she's a fraud. When she was done saying stuff you probably focused on things that she got right and not things that she got wrong.
> 
> I wasn't there but perhaps she was being a bit more vague then what you think and you just made the connections. There was some fraud claiming to be a time traveller a few years ago by the name of Zeshua on another forum and most of her predictions were so vague to the point where pretty much all of them could be right. Some strong believers made some huge posts showing how her predictions were right well... they weren't, they were vague bull**** that you could make it sound right.
> 
> You also were expecting generic bull****. There's the thing, pros most likely won't do generic bull****. David Copperfield is a pro magician and I doubt you can figure out how he does his magic tricks. Same goes for cold reading, If you're good at It, people won't notice the tricks, they won't know how you did It but you did, which will leave them into believing in what you say.


You make a good point, but she did say other stuff that we weren't sure about. That was just the stuff that she mentioned to do with me. The other stuff was all regarding other people that my wife thinks may have been her nan but the details weren't quite right. The other thing to remember is that she didn't look at me at all while saying this and my wife was saying OK. Afterwards we started discussing the stuff and she basically started the whole thing over again and it was a good 10 minutes of discussing things from my wife's point of view before we got to all the stuff that made sense to me. I get what you're saying about her being vague and me perceiving it as accurate but this wasn't the case. She was bang on with everything she said. I'm a good reader of peoples emotions and behaviour (a necessity of my job and being able to risk asses everyone that encounter while at work) and this was something else. She may well have been a trickster, but I just can't figure out how. No eye contact, she wasn't watching my body language, she couldn't pick up on subtle differences in my voice because it was my wife acknowledging her and she didn't know any of the stuff she mentioned and she mentioned something which I had no knowledge of, which was quite specific, yet my Nan knew exactly what it was. I've actually given up trying to figure it out now, as I just can't find a logical explanation of it. I've even had a chat with a hypnotist/body language expert friend of mine who does the same sort of thing as Derren Brown but he does it for helping people etc, and he was miffed, and he's not one for the supernatural!!

Also since she came round our house, none of the strange noises have ever happened again. I'll never understand it to be honest, but it has made me think that maybe there is something after life, who knows!! It's a nice idea if there is though.


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## Ceek (May 5, 2013)

I'd go as far as to say that it's like a deep sleep. Nothing bothers you, no stress, no worry, having the comport of a loved one next to you, that's my more 'realistic' heaven.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Look up some of the excellent work done by Dr Penny Sartori with NDE's, don't just dismiss this out of hand & call bs though.

Some of it requires alot of reading & is very interesting. She talks about a patient who had an NDE & met in a realm a relative.

However, the patient didn't know that this relative was dead, as they had died while the patient was in a coma.

http://www.drpennysartori.com/

She's a lovely woman.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> Lol I'm honestly planning on transferring my brain to a machine. The Japanese are already working on it, I believe they already managed it with a mouse brain but I may be wrong. Still lots of work to do, looking at over 30 years probably but if it ever becomes possible


Just make sure that the operating system isn't Windows.. :lol:


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Honestly, I'm pretty sure you can explain this



> *Also since she came round our house, none of the strange noises have ever happened again*. I'll never understand it to be honest, but it has made me think that maybe there is something after life, who knows!! It's a nice idea if there is though.


with this



> It makes sense for me to put the blame on emotional instincts as they aren't rational. Why do ghosts only appear at dark, old and scary places? Why can't non rational anxiety conflict with our rational brain making our mind go into a "what if" mode? Why can't our brain create It's own stimuli to compensate for the lack of sensory stimuli due to darkness?


Knowing there is someone "experienced" on the subject helping you could decrease those emotional instincts I guess.

My problem with psychics is that they seem to think they don't need to defend themselves and refuse to prove they're the real deal, why is that? "James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge" is a perfect example, If you truly think you're psychic, why not do It? You'll not only gain 1 million dollars from doing the challenge but also get more advertised for showing to the world that you're real psychic. Quite a few gave It a go and they all failed. Famous psychics, when proven wrong at times, usually come with lame excuses to explain why the circunstances didn't allow them to do things right, that's funny, talking to the dead fails when done with famous skeptics. Kinda like how ghosts have phobia towards HD cameras. John Edward made some funny statement about how he didn't need to defend himself because doing that would imply that he lost. Seriously, WHAT? If anything, a successful defense implies victory.

I hope I'm not sounding like an ass by trying to prove you wrong, It's just that I find these kind of things to be very hard to buy. I have a friend who tried going into one of those psychic mediums and gave some false info. If you can communicate with the dead you most likely will be able figure out If what the other person is saying is true or not, wasn't the case. Of course, there is always the possibility of the psychic he went to was a fraud and there are real psychics out there, but honestly, I feel like the odds of Michael jackson getting ressurected and raping the Pope are higher.



Bull Terrier said:


> Just make sure that the operating system isn't Windows.. :lol:


Implying windows is operative, LOL.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@Leeds89 - have a look at this link please..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson#Retirement.2C_death_and_experiment


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

ujelly said:


> Honestly, I'm pretty sure you can explain this
> 
> with this
> 
> ...


Again the first point you make is a good one but I disagree. The sounds we both heard were real noises. They weren't faint noises or shadows in the corner. And happened just as much in the daylight as it did at night. There was no pattern to it happening. The only person that saw anything was my sister, but she's a fvcking idiot and probably saw the vapour mist of her own fart, so I'm not counting that! Me, my wife and our 2 eldest kids, all heard more than once the same noise. Once the kids were in a different room to me and the wife and came in to ask what the noise was. And the stone that I saw fly across the room was at about 5am in the summer. It was light outside and I had the lights on inside. I think I know what you're getting at though, as I've looked into it. And there's some sort of sensory thing that is often what people see when they see a figure move in their peripheral vision, but non of this was that. Me and my wife never saw a thing. The noises were loud. The footsteps on the stairs were loud, like an adult walking on them and when it happened at night the noise would stop when you got to the top or bottom of the stairs as if the "ghost" was trying to not move while you were looking. We were woken up a couple of times by the noises as well, which could be down to sleep etc, but to have more than one person hearing the noises, is just strange. Plus these same noises happened in 3 separate houses and the first house that we experienced it in we had for a week while living in our new house and the wife spent the week spring cleaning it with youngest who was a few months old at the time. For that week the baby cried non stop from the moment she entered the house to the moment the baby was either taken into the garden or left the house. ONe occasion in our current house we heard our youngest get out of bed and start walking around upstairs. Me and the wife both crept onto the stairs to try and catch her out. Our staircase has a bend in it so you can't quite see the landing until you're right near the top and as we were walking up and turned the corner we distinctly heard my 3 year old run across the landing and into the front bedroom. The footsteps were still going when we got to the landing so there's no way she could have got past us and back into bed and yet she was in her bed fast asleep and there was nothing in the front bedroom.

Honestly these things had me going nuts trying to figure them out, and I'm not a particularly spiritual person or any b0ll0cks like that. I don't believe in God at all and I think Jesus was the first Walter Mitty. But the stuff that happened to us, those noises we just could not explain. And that stone that I saw fly across the room, how the fvck is that explained. I was sitting there waiting for my Xbox to load and I felt like someone was standing next to me, as I turned my head to look over my shoulder I saw a pea sized stone fly across the room at shoulder height and into the front door and then bounce back towards me on the wooden flooring?!!

That million dollar project seems interesting, but is it about psychics who believe they can read your mind type thing or people who can speak to the dead? That woman that we had didn't call herself a psychic, she was a spiritual reader.

EDIT: I've just had a quick read about that million dollar project thing and it seems that the results that the guy that runs it want's are higher than what science would normally accept as exceptional. So receiving an exception means a fail in that test. It almost looks set to fail?? One of the pages I read was this one http://dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge. Don't know much about it though or even if that's a decent site for info, it was just one of the results in Google. It is interesting though!


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

There are also very compelling arguements in favour of Substance Dualism. Where the body is physical & the mind is not ie it exists outside of the body.

Then there's Universial Consciouness...


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## Kev1980 (Jan 18, 2011)

I think it's purely a switch on or off but when off that's it game over


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Read this:

http://www.drpennysartori.com/10752.html


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## Guest (May 6, 2013)

As Kev says its as simple as game over.

I've never seen a ghost or spirit and don't believe anybody who says they have.

It's there mind/brain playing tricks imo.

It's just a sad fact you live then you die.

Just do what you can in the time your bloods pumping imo.


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## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

body gets ill and dies, but what about you mind, thoughts, feelings, memorys ect ?


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

Wings said:


> i think we'd be foolish to believe that were the only ones in the universe, although i cant say i have witnessed anything but somethings cant be explained


your avi makes me think of you as an angel lols imagine all covered in glitter...in a little white robe....have you thought of that look for your next show? maybe even wings and a halo? would be amazzzzin


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## dirtymusket1 (May 24, 2008)

Worms eat you :no:


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## onthebuild (Sep 3, 2011)




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## Kiwi (Dec 24, 2008)

Don't know, don't care, don't give it a second thought, i'm living thats what I concentrate on.

As far as religion goes my belief is, it was created by man to control man.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Loveleelady said:


> true Christians go to heaven and the rest of yous burn in hell. end of story


Id take whips and chains over fairys and hymns anyday


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## Goosh (Jun 24, 2012)

husky said:


> she's serious





Leeds89 said:


> I just find it hard to get my head around "nothing".... I like to understand things, and I just can't understand there being nothing... I don't believe in an afterlife or anything like that, once it's over it's probably over, but trying to imagine that is difficult :/
> 
> I'm pinning all my hopes on being able to transfer my brain to a machine and living forever tbh :lol:


I'm the same mate. Scares the bejeezus out of me, the thought of dying as I can't get my head around me ending. I talk to myself loads in my head (without sounding like a nutter) and not having that really winds me up


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> The petrol does, but the energy doesn't it just transfers to a different state. the first law of themordynamics states that energy can neither be created or destroyed.


Correct. The worm will turn what nutrients you have remaining into worm energy


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

McGuire86 said:


> And you say religion is fiction but you come out with that statement ? Whatever you've been taking, it's time to knock it on the head.


Magic man in the sky - 100% believable

Other intelligent life in a hugely vast universe where our planet is a mere spec - poppycock!!

Think....!!


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> Id take whips and chains over fairys and hymns anyday


now tekkers we talkin about when we die not an average Monday nites activities lol


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

My cat died on my lap 3 years ago. 17 years old and she was the wisest creature I'd ever seen, also the only thing iv ever seen die (other than bugs) it was weird. Buried her in a plant pot with a tree ontop. She's part of the tree now :thumb:


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> now tekkers we talkin about when we die not an average Monday nites activities lol


I'm guessing you're quite a religious gal? And if so, do you believe in Alien life form outs there somewhere? Slightly off topic I know but someone else mentioned it earlier and I'm curious!


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

Absolutely nothing happens.. I'd imagine its like being asleep!


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> I'm guessing you're quite a religious gal? And if so, do you believe in Alien life form outs there somewhere? Slightly off topic I know but someone else mentioned it earlier and I'm curious!


o gosh that's a bit deep for me...maybe theres others who could deal with that...don't like that feelin of bein intellectual.. I liked that show wiv simon peg in it and they had a little alien out in American desserrt was funny...you think its like that?


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> true Christians go to heaven and the rest of yous burn in hell. end of story


bollox


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Quite simple really your spirit passes on into the spirit world. If youve been an evil **** your punished evil like murder, rape etc. If youve been ok then you float around looking after your remaining loved ones. You also get to choose a task become a higher spirit guide, sometimes spirits of the young come through and you will befriend them and help them with the transition. The rest of the time your helping make life fair, your working your a$$ off to combat the curve balls life throws at us sometimes unfairly. One day your time is up and your reborn forgetting all knowledge you had in the spirit world.


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## resten (Apr 4, 2012)

If you're unlucky you get bummed by a necrophiliac


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> o gosh that's a bit deep for me...maybe theres others who could deal with that...don't like that feelin of bein intellectual.. I liked that show wiv simon peg in it and they had a little alien out in American desserrt was funny...you think its like that?


haha, who knows!! I gues I was asking because the really religious people I've met completely dismiss science in terms of alien life form and evolution. Personally I think god is just a story, but have no problem with people that want to believe in it. A good friend of mine was a heavy Christian, until we went to Iraq. He then gave up religion after about 4 months because he felt that if god did exist he wouldn't allow the things that we saw to happen, either that or he has a funny sense of humour, but he completely dismissed alien life form as well. To me it just seems strange that people could dismiss that, I suppose much the same as in certain scenarios it must seem strange to you that "non believers" don't follow a god, if that makes sense?!


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

phoenix1980 said:


> Quite simple really your spirit passes on into the spirit world. If youve been an evil **** your punished evil like murder, rape etc. If youve been ok then you float around looking after your remaining loved ones. You also get to choose a task become a higher spirit guide, sometimes spirits of the young come through and you will befriend them and help them with the transition. The rest of the time your helping make life fair, your working your a$$ off to combat the curve balls life throws at us sometimes unfairly. One day your time is up and your reborn forgetting all knowledge you had in the spirit world.


Thanks for clearing that up, simple when u put it like that!


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## phoenix1980 (Apr 27, 2011)

Your welcome , dont mention it :tongue:


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> true Christians go to heaven and the rest of yous burn in hell. end of story


truly evil ppl maybe go to hell. but i cant beleive our mercyfull god if there is one would send everyone to burning hell for not following a religion and if he does he's not a mercyfull god he himself would be evil. and sorry for brash comment in last post loveleelady


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## Kev1980 (Jan 18, 2011)

Lets be honest where would you put the spirt of every animal that has ever died? The earth struggles to hold just those who are alive.


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Life is pure energy pure energy can not be destoyed it can however become a lower grade of energy each time its spent thats sort of the sceince behind it anyways


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Kev1980 said:


> Lets be honest where would you put the spirt of every animal that has ever died? The earth struggles to hold just those who are alive.


But it maybe on a different spiritual plain and anyway there is an infinite universe out there


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> haha, who knows!! I gues I was asking because the really religious people I've met completely dismiss science in terms of alien life form and evolution. Personally I think god is just a story, but have no problem with people that want to believe in it. A good friend of mine was a heavy Christian, until we went to Iraq. He then gave up religion after about 4 months because he felt that if god did exist he wouldn't allow the things that we saw to happen, either that or he has a funny sense of humour, but he completely dismissed alien life form as well. To me it just seems strange that people could dismiss that, I suppose much the same as in certain scenarios it must seem strange to you that "non believers" don't follow a god, if that makes sense?!


ive always thought those things happen because god gives us free will to choose and its man who chooses to do those evil things

I find non-believers are extremely focused on those things that's usually one of their main points of arguments rather than focusing on all the good and positive things in the world... I leave others to do as they please.. each to their own...but ive always found praying makes me feel really happy and usually the prayers are answered... he's just been a bit slow on getting back to me on one area lmao but ive accepted that it will all work out and theres a bigger plan for me...

I know in 2013 this is not how the majority think but that doesn't really bother me ...around here most are practising and believing Christians.... but personally I don't really judge others...i don't mind what they do...

my family were discussing our funerals yesterday haha we had such a good laff about it and what we would like done... my mother wants to be pulled in a trailer behind the tractor lol twisted.com but I want a big splashy OTT one


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

OK, here's a question for the heaven and hell debate. Lets imagine a soldier. He goes to Iraq say and ends up killing people (not random murder) but in self defence because he's attacked by insurgents, what then? He's killed, but he was attacked first so it's self defence right? Well what about if he volunteers to do a second tour of Iraq and the same happens again? Is he then in the sh!t with him upstairs because he volunteered to be put in that situation in the first place or is it still a case of self defence? And what of then he volunteers to go to Afghanistan and gets caught up in all the fighting there? But this time it's different. This time he's allowed to attack the enemy forces before they do anything as long as he can identify that they are deemed an enemy combatant. It's no longer self defence because your striking first but it's not really murder either because these are the enemy that are trying to kill you. Is that hell or is that heaven?!! And lets throw in another slightly fvcked up example. Lets say in the fighting some kids are killed accidentally what then? Does the accidental death of an innocent child instantly mean hell or is it OK because it was an accident???!!


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

anaboliclove said:


> truly evil ppl maybe go to hell. but i cant beleive our mercyfull god if there is one would send everyone to burning hell for not following a religion and if he does he's not a mercyfull god he himself would be evil. and sorry for brash comment in last post loveleelady


its ok anabolic im ok wiv brash lol so you must have some belief in god? do you take your kids to Sunday school?


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## Guest (May 6, 2013)

You go back into the earth and the cycle starts over.


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> OK, here's a question for the heaven and hell debate. Lets imagine a soldier. He goes to Iraq say and ends up killing people (not random murder) but in self defence because he's attacked by insurgents, what then? He's killed, but he was attacked first so it's self defence right? Well what about if he volunteers to do a second tour of Iraq and the same happens again? Is he then in the sh!t with him upstairs because he volunteered to be put in that situation in the first place or is it still a case of self defence? And what of then he volunteers to go to Afghanistan and gets caught up in all the fighting there? But this time it's different. This time he's allowed to attack the enemy forces before they do anything as long as he can identify that they are deemed an enemy combatant. It's no longer self defence because your striking first but it's not really murder either because these are the enemy that are trying to kill you. Is that hell or is that heaven?!! And lets throw in another slightly fvcked up example. Lets say in the fighting some kids are killed accidentally what then? Does the accidental death of an innocent child instantly mean hell or is it OK because it was an accident???!!


look at bigger picture - he originally went with the belief and intention that he was fighting for good (lets not throw government agendas into it) if his actions morals and intentions remained good and he was doin it to protect then yea its all good


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

When its game over, the lights go out and that's that. No recollection, conscience or notion of ever having been on this earth. This is why I think religion was devised as once you start to think like this life could seem pretty pointless and lesser men could easily go off the rails knowing that ultimately there are no consequences to their actions.

Im happy to live and let live though so I would never say people are wrong for having faith, its just not for me.


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> look at bigger picture - he originally went with the belief and intention that he was fighting for good (lets not throw government agendas into it) if his actions morals and intentions remained good and he was doin it to protect then yea its all good


Phew! :innocent: So the question is how does that person live their life in terms of morals and belief's and whether or not they do what they do with the best intentions? So how does that work for the other side of the coin? The suicide bomber who believes he is fighting a just cause and believes that killing innocent men, women and kids is the best way to achieve his goal?


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

mikep81 said:


> Phew! :innocent: So the question is how does that person live their life in terms of morals and belief's and whether or not they do what they do with the best intentions? So how does that work for the other side of the coin? The suicide bomber who believes he is fighting a just cause and believes that killing innocent men, women and kids is the best way to achieve his goal?


that's where its wrong - he knows they innocent and his attack on them is unprovoked


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## Kev1980 (Jan 18, 2011)

I would like to add though everyone is entitled to there own beliefs as long as they don't try to force it upon others.


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> I just find the concept of a god illogical. I know people say it's not about logic, it's about faith, but if the world worked on faith then no-one would look before crossing the road. Also, if god is all powerful but allows evils to happen, he is either not all powerful and unable to prevent them, or allows them to happen, and worshipping a malevolent god who masquerades human tragedy as the impact of "free will" seems a bit silly.


Well said science has pretty much blown religion out of the water religion is the biggest plecebo ever known. i beleive there is something somewhere in which our origins began but i think ppl who worship a religion are a bit naive and i am in no way biggoted i may be wrong and in a way hope i am but no god can punish me for not being faithfull to him afterall if indeed he did create me he gave me the intellect to question and doubt in the first place


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

ujelly said:


> It was wrong button click, sorry.


No worries. Ignore the second part of my post, as is totally unwarranted.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Lol @ a christian god.

If there was ever such a thing, i would be disgusted more than amazed.

Can you imagine meeting someone like that in real life?

1) only accepts if you get on your knees and worship him. How arrogant do you need to be

2) preaches tolerance, but the first rule of his club is intolerance to others beliefs

3) if you don't believe in him, he leaves you to burn in hell, depsite he gave you the option to believe in him or not. It's more evil than takeshi's castle

4) don't know about you, but i would have got sacked long time ago if I screw up my job this often

5) Pad parent of the year award? **** this guys takes the biscuit


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> its ok anabolic im ok wiv brash lol so you must have some belief in god? do you take your kids to Sunday school?


No i dont and i am a bit sceptical but i do lean towards christianity


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> Quite a morbid thread but been trying to get my head around this one and can't for the life of me understand it. What happens when we die? I don't believe in God/heaven all that sort of stuff, but I also find it hard to understand nothingness.
> 
> Anyone have any insights or views? Would be interested to hear what others think


REP's for start of a good debate


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

anaboliclove said:


> No i dont and i am a bit sceptical but i do lean towards christianity


 yea cud see a little of the Christian spirit in you lol I love the family aspect of church and the care and love it encourages for children and the family


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## anaboliclove (Oct 9, 2010)

christianity is a beutifull concept and it does give a lot of ppl hope and focus i think we are better with it than without unlike some religions better not say which but im sure you know


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## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

What happens when you die?

IMO it doesn't really matter what happens to your mind.

But what I can tell you what does matter is you will lose 99% of all your gains. You packed on loads of mass during your life cycle and became apex predators that eat almost anything that it came into contact with.

You suffered severe shut down during your 80's and maybe 90's (if you're unlucky). By now your pen1s has severe ED and your lifts have all gone down to that of a 4 year old. when you thought you could cruise for another 10 years and maybe have another blast, (probably in your local club on the dance floor throwing up those moves from gangnam style looking some three decades out of sync with everyone in the club). The doctors tried everything to get you up and running again but your PCT failed and your testicles were so shrivelled and old that no amount of HCG could bring them back up.

Then after that you suffered permanent shutdown. Your cycle ended and you are to become as natural and organic as the trees around you and the rat sh1t that is scattered above your rotting corpse. What was it all for?

You probably didn't live to see the virtual reality sex machine from Demolition man.

You categorically didn't sleep with as many birds as you said you did.

And no way in hell were you ever going to win the Olympia.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

Leeds89 said:


> Quite a morbid thread but been trying to get my head around this one and can't for the life of me understand it. What happens when we die? I don't believe in God/heaven all that sort of stuff, but I also find it hard to understand nothingness.
> 
> Anyone have any insights or views? Would be interested to hear what others think


every living thing plant and animal has some level of dmt in there, humans release it when there asleep, and in a massive dose in the seconds before you die.

DMT 'the spirit molecule'


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

I think all religion does is give people hope that there part of something bigger, because all humans love power or the feeling that there better than the next or wiser than the next etc etc, self loathing in there smugness. thinking because they believe in god and follow some book therefore they go to heaven and everyone else doesn't etc or what ever it says that some shepard 2000+ years ago high on shrooms wrote.

everyone wants to be part of something if its real or not.

im more a man of science not blind faith, myth and legend.

religion is a cult imo, good or bad. if it makes you a better person then that's fine, but that doesn't mean its real behond your own mind.

kids behave themselves if you tell them to be good santy will give you lots of presents,

adults behave if you tell them to believe in god they go to heaven.

its the same type of mind con imo, only adults should live in reality imo.


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## Tomkc (Mar 5, 2013)

I like to believe in re incarnation or something along those lines but the honest truth is no one knows, its all just beliefs and guess work,

Your brain could take you back to a happy memory or

You could be reborn into the matrix...

All seem as far fetched as the next but how can we honestly say whats true and whats not??


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> Lol @ a christian god.
> 
> If there was ever such a thing, i would be disgusted more than amazed.
> 
> ...


There you have it. And some wonder why there are so many atheists?.

Tell yer what though, going back along time when this Jesus said he was the son of god or the messiah etc... what reaction would a man get today if he said exactly the same thing?. Yep, be shouted at and branded a nutter and in some countries killed, rather like he were in that despotic country israel.

Have we changed for the better since then?. Nope, we haven't if we think about it really.

Its all ****ed up.


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## Poke (May 31, 2012)

McGuire86 said:


> And you say religion is fiction but you come out with that statement ? Whatever you've been taking, it's time to knock it on the head.


That was my *entire point* of that statement...

The fact that, thinking 'god' existing is the same thing as beleiving in Frodo and the ring. Yet if you ask most religious people if aliens are real, then they look at you like your on a fairy tale land, when in reality, it is them who are on fairy tale lands and the probabilty of aliens exsiting (other living things on other planets where bacteria grows) is *very very * probable and you would actually be a moron to rule out that possibility that in the entire space system there arent any other planets which have the correct heat conditions and moisture for living things to grow on.... But god existing? Like I said its just a fairy tale that people seem to believe because its a very old fairy tale, fair enough though.


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

2 links to hearing voices/ gods voice in this day and age, sums it right up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadmoor_Hospital

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_schizophrenia


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

huckfead said:


> Tell yer what though, going back along time when this Jesus said he was the son of god or the messiah etc... what reaction would a man get today if he said exactly the same thing?


Let's find out...


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## ASOC5 (Jun 10, 2011)

BBaddict said:


> Worth listening through, very insightful guy


i have spent my bank holiday monday morning in the bizarrest k hole iv ever had listening to this bloke


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

Sorry Mike, I went to bed shortly before you posted your biggun. I'm not going to address it all because it was quite long and I think my post 87 pretty much covers the basics. Let me illustrate my point another way: it's almost like I gave my reply an hour and a half before you even posted your story, but you wouldn't infer from that that I'm a time traveller. No, the much more likely explanation is that the shoe always fits because these people always use the same basic MO.



mikep81 said:


> She proceeded to tell us that she wouldn't look at us during the reading and told us we were only allowed to say the word OK to indicate to her that we had understood what she had said. She then said that she wanted to make it absolutely clear that we weren't to acknowledge whether or not what she said meant anything to us, but just to say OK, so that she knew she didn't have to repeat herself and then at the end we would analyse all the information.


This is the bit where you should have got more suspicious. From your work history I'm pretty sure you must know what a "confidence trick" is. The con here is making the mark think that they can't possibly have contributed to their own deception, and it's not that easy to do. Lady got mad skills.

Yeah it's spooky as fvck, totally agreed. But human psychology is a much better explanation than inventing a ghost world, particularly since it's already been acknowledged and explained by people who are/were "in the trade".

As far as noises go... well sound is caused by impacts between physical matter. Spirits are by definition immaterial beings which ought not interact with the physical world (also suffering the disadvantage that they have not been shown to be anything other than fictional). I'd be looking for a physical explanation for noises, as frustrating as that might be, and a psychological/perceptual one for moving objects. There has been a lot of work done in that area. Small groups of people who believe that they are in a certain spooky situation become more prone to the perceptual "blips" that lead them to have confirmatory experiences. They are also more likely to believe that they have seen the same thing when they actually haven't. Not lying or kidding themselves, but victims of the weird weird way the brain works under certain conditions.


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## MyStyle (Apr 22, 2011)

I've always held the opinion that once you die, you die, end of story. However my girlfriend went to one of those clairvoyants one night with her sister and a few others. While 1 of the other girls were in the man says to her "I want to speak to the girl connected to Connor". So when she goes in he starts talking to her about me and was quite specific about it. Then mentions my mothers name & my brothers name and says to tell us my grandmother is watching over us. Also mentioned a few other specific things, like about the abuse my girlfriend went through as a child and so on. Said it was her grandfather that came through to speak about it. I've always assumed people like that mentioned general topics that tend to apply to a large amount of people. I was pretty gob smacked with this though, she had the whole thing recorded on her phone to let me hear it aswell. I do wonder about it abit now though..


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

Yep, then what happened when he came back?


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## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

huckfead said:


> Yep, then what happened when he came back?


Lol on toast! I'd forgotten this one! Ah ha haaaa


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## mikep81 (Oct 8, 2010)

Loveleelady said:


> that's where its wrong - he knows they innocent and his attack on them is unprovoked


But Taliban, to be particular, believe that what they are doing is gods will. They believe they are in the right. Is what they're doing morally any different to what Christianity did a few hundred years back? They believe what they are doing is for the greater good. Ok yes their interpretation if Islam may be twisted but is that the fault of the student or the teacher? Why should the suicide bomber who has been radicalised by his Imam go to hell when he is doing what he believes to be right?

For the record, incase anyone doesn't see it, I'm just thinking out loud here and although i have a certain amount of respect for the Taliban I share no love for them at all!!


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## Loveleelady (Jan 3, 2012)

.....more importantly what would happen to your ukm profile???

ahhh nobody wud know u dead lol and theyd all be like wheres lovelee whats she doin why she so quite and yous wouldn't know what time my funeral at?

and the wake like you would miss out on that

my mum was thinking about not havin a wake for herself and my brother was like of course we cudnt have one for you as thered be no one to make the sandwiches lmao he thought she shud make them now and freeze them


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## huckfead (Feb 11, 2013)

Wavelength said:


> Lol on toast! I'd forgotten this one! Ah ha haaaa


I admire Ickes backbone to be honest in that he did not go and hide in the corner of a dark room and curl into a ball. Don't agree with some of the things he comes out with but as they say - 'each to their own'.


----------



## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

huckfead said:


> I admire Ickes backbone to be honest in that he did not go and hide in the corner of a dark room and curl into a ball. Don't agree with some of the things he comes out with but as they say - 'each to their own'.


It is kind of tragic in a way that he perceives real problems with society but then wraps his explanation in crazy.


----------



## corporates (Nov 12, 2006)

This is worth a read, and might or might not make sense

where are the dead:

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/where-are-the-dead/

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/what-hope-for-dead-loved-ones/1101987030/

Is the bible from God?Is it a book of human wisdom?:

http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/

If you want to know more or struggle to get to grips with any of it you can request someone come see you https://www.jw.org/en/free-bible-study/

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not a Jehovahs Witness.

They usually knock on my door, smile and say good day and leave as i'm well known amongst my local ones.

About them

http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/



Leeds89 said:


> Quite a morbid thread but been trying to get my head around this one and can't for the life of me understand it. What happens when we die? I don't believe in God/heaven all that sort of stuff, but I also find it hard to understand nothingness.
> 
> Anyone have any insights or views? Would be interested to hear what others think


----------



## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

take some dmt and you will have the answer


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

skd said:


> take some dmt and you will have the answer


That an offer? :lol:


----------



## Wavelength (Aug 12, 2012)

corporates said:


> This is worth a read, and might or might not make sense
> 
> where are the dead:
> 
> http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/where-are-the-dead/


What's interesting from that first link is the bit about Lazarus, where Jesus says that he has gone to rest, and everyone thinks he means sleep until he clarifies "Lazarus has died". What if they got it the wrong way around? Lazarus' "death" might have been the metaphor, not his "rest". Certainly seems more likely to me, especially since Jesus was supposedly a prophet who told people stuff they hadn't considered before.


----------



## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

latblaster said:


> That an offer? :lol:


if i had some id share


----------



## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

skd said:


> if i had some id share


infos on the net, homebrew :smartass:


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

When you faint nothing happens until you wake up. That may be what nothingness is like


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

Leeds89 said:


> Quite a morbid thread but been trying to get my head around this one and can't for the life of me understand it. What happens when we die? I don't believe in God/heaven all that sort of stuff, but I also find it hard to understand nothingness.
> 
> Anyone have any insights or views? Would be interested to hear what others think


Its one thing we all have in common mate and thats that we shall all find out!


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Woke up to 33 notifications seems I'm not the only one who is interested in this :lol:

Oh, and read this! THIS is what I'm pinning all my hopes on at the moment, just need to make sure I make it to the mid 21st century and have enough money to pay for it when it's possible! IF it's ever possible

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/05/23/brain.download/


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Loveleelady said:


> that's where its wrong - he knows they innocent and his attack on them is unprovoked


But to them, "innocents" are actually enemies of Allah and therefore fair game.


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

good to see this is still going, any of the religious loons proved the existence of god/heaven/angels/narnia yet?


----------



## alchemystical (Jan 16, 2013)

Those cheese eating surrender monkeys who call themselves Le French also refer to an orgasm at "le petit mort" or "the small death".

I take that to mean that death is like the ultimate orgasm, busting all kinds of eternal nuts.

On a serious note, Anthony Peake has a very interesting theory about all of this:


----------



## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

All these hypothesis about Jesus and psychoactive drugs that give rise to another dimension is all well and good.

But when the answer is staring you right in the face, the one man who has proof of the afterlife, 2pac Shakur!


----------



## alchemystical (Jan 16, 2013)

Sku11fk said:


> But when the answer is staring you right in the face, the one man who has proof of the afterlife, 2pac Shakur!


Funny thing about Pac is they "bought him back to life" on Easter Sunday:






When he died on Friday the 13th. Black Jesus indeed...



>


----------



## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

AnnesBollocks said:


> Funny thing about Pac is they "bought him back to life" on Easter Sunday:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, thats the one!


----------



## SirStrokeUrEgo (Sep 27, 2012)

Decomposition. Anyone that believes different is stupid, maybe a bit harsh considering of-course we will latch on to any idea for comfort.


----------



## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

It's fun to see christians defending their religion... Christianity oppressed science in the middle ages because science could prove them wrong. If you can speak God's words, we can assume you know EVERYTHING about the universe. God created It, If you can speak his words, you can communicate with god, the creator of the universe, so the creator of the universe doesn't know how It works? Are omnipotent beings stupid? Or you can't communicate with God? In that case, was the bible just an interpretation of what someone thought God wants to say but can't? Putting words in God's mouth is disrespectful ain't It? If you can't speak with him, If there is no evidence of him creating the universe or evidence of his existence, why can people be 100% sure God is there? If you put thought into It, pretty much no religion makes much sense, that means most followers didn't put much thought into It and didn't try to see how much incoherence there is.

Another problem with religion is that, unlike science, It doesn't make any progress. The answer is just faith. In physics you don't tell people to have faith in higgs boson, you're capable of showing people how you proved It's real and giving them enough information for them to replicate what you did. Not only that, If 10 physicists makes 10 different theories, the odds are, they complement each other and you'll be able to unify them, like the theory of relativity. That doesn't happen with religion, you have 100 different religions which contradict each other and the existence of the god of one religion can prove the existence of the god of another religion wrong. You can't unify religions, you can't create a happy world where we all believe the christian god and buddha are BFF in heaven.

Someone said something about spirit molecule.. Man, please, PLEASE, never state pseudo science as truth. You're making Stephen Hawking cry. DMT is a molecule, not spirit molecule, big difference.


----------



## balance (Jan 9, 2011)

My theory is that our consciousness exists forever, my reason for believing this is that i don't think that life and the universe would simply just exist, no god though, no creator.


----------



## Sku11fk (Aug 28, 2012)

balance said:


> My theory is that our consciousness exists forever, my reason for believing this is that i don't think that life and the universe would simply just exist, no god though, no creator.


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

On of the best threads I've seen on here.

A lot has been covered and I dont know what else can be said other than no one knows either way for sure.

I am on the fence because I simply don't know. I can appreciate the science view and the religious view. What annoys me are those who are so militant on one side and can't appreciate another's point of view.

From the religious theory there are so many questions we simply never will know... why free choice. Why do we have to believe in God to get eternal life..... why not pop down to earth for 10 seconds to say hello and everyone will believe then?

However, I can't understand how life and everything is just here without a creator.. the human body is incredible.

Scientists try to credit the big bang or other theories as to the origins of our life... how can all these things just already be there to create this incident? Where did they come from?

Who made the particles, who made God? How is anything here? Where did it all come from in the first place?

Has Cern in Geneva been a success? What does the higgs boson actually prove? Are we even scratching the surface?


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Zola said:


> On of the best threads I've seen on here.
> 
> A lot has been covered and I dont know what else can be said other than no one knows either way for sure.
> 
> ...


why are we here?


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

bodybuilding


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Zola said:


> bodybuilding


but are we?


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

If a child is born without any of the 5 senses, can it think?


----------



## Papa Lazarou (Jul 4, 2007)

You were nothing before you were born and will go back to nothing afterwards. We are simply a parasite like everything else on this planet, replicating as much as possible before dying, just with varying life cycles per species, every animal, every plant, every living organism.


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

we rot, our bodys provide energy for other life forms and the cycle of life continues.

we die so other life can live


----------



## tamara (Sep 23, 2012)

I'd like to believe our souls go to heaven.


----------



## Laurieloz (Apr 8, 2013)

I've been a zombie for a very long time now. It's much more fun than being a sheet ghoul as they can only say 'boo'. I tried the headless man option but Sir Francis Drake has got copyright and threatened to sue.

Zombies have a wonderful time. And we can run and talk a little now as well.

I've lost my taste buds though and bodybuilding is a problem as I'm ripped to shreds anyway.

Heaven might have been peaceful but it's better to roam the Earth in limbo as it's nice to keep in touch with your friends and surroundings.

Your initial question? Dunno mate.


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Zola said:


> On of the best threads I've seen on here.
> 
> A lot has been covered and I dont know what else can be said other than no one knows either way for sure.
> 
> ...


Well the further back in time you go to the big bang the more the rules of general relativity breakdown - meaning that it's probably incomprehensible to any living thing in the universe as we live by the rules of relativity. Still doesn't make 100% sense to me but I think that's the jist of it. I've always been interested in science and really enjoy learning about how the universe and everything in it works 



Papa Lazarou said:


> You were nothing before you were born and will go back to nothing afterwards. We are simply a parasite like everything else on this planet, replicating as much as possible before dying, just with varying life cycles per species, every animal, every plant, every living organism.


I agree, I just find the concept of "nothing" hard to understand. I do think that there is nothing tbh when it's over, I agree 100% on that point, it's just understanding that concept I really can't get my head around and it drives me nuts. I don't like the thought of the consciousness ending tbh.



beefdinner said:


> I'd like to believe our souls go to heaven.


I would too tbh, I'd love that to be the case but then again I'd also love it to rain £50 notes in my bedroom but that's equally as unlikely :laugh:


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

a.notherguy said:


> we rot, our bodys provide energy for other life forms and the cycle of life continues.
> 
> we die so other life can live


One of the things that provides a small comfort for me is knowing that every atom that makes up the trillions of cells in my body was fused together in the core of an exploding star, and over billions of years eventually taken this form. And one day we go back to a similar state, sort of full circle.


----------



## Hera (May 6, 2011)

I believe that when we die, our brain shuts down, our cells die and decompose. I think some people struggle with the concept of our consciousness ceasing to be, but in my opinion, our consciousness is merely perception and the product of complex neurology and nothing more. I therefore do not believe in a soul or spirit 

When I was younger and really struggled with the idea of 'nothingness' my mum told me liken it to the times that we're asleep and not dreaming...


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Katy said:


> I believe that when we die, our brain shuts down, our cells die and decompose. I think some people struggle with the concept of our consciousness ceasing to be, but in my opinion, our consciousness is merely perception and the product of complex neurology and nothing more. I therefore do not believe in a soul or spirit
> 
> When I was younger and really struggled with the idea of 'nothingness' my mum told me liken it to the times that we're asleep and not dreaming...


I agree with this but does the thought not scare you at all? I can't think of anything less appealing than ever having to die. I'm seriously hoping that technology can prevent it in our lifetimes


----------



## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> I agree with this but does the thought not scare you at all? I can't think of anything less appealing than ever having to die. I'm seriously hoping that technology can prevent it in our lifetimes


I suppose I sort of accept it. It happens to everyone and everything and is part of life. But then I don't dwell on it...instead I focus on how lucky I am to experience life in the first place and look at how I want to spend it and make efforts to realise what I want from life  I try to focus on my journey through life and not think about the end but just hope that I die knowing that I enjoyed my life.


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## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

when your dead your dead thats it,,,all these fools believing in the golden gates need a head check.


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

Katy said:


> I suppose I sort of accept it. It happens to everyone and everything and is part of life. But then I don't dwell on it...instead I focus on how lucky I am to experience life in the first place and look at how I want to spend it and make efforts to realise what I want from life  I try to focus on my journey through life and not think about the end but just hope that I die knowing that I enjoyed my life.


Good way to look at things, I wish I could think like that. I get annoyed that we're just starting to do all of the really cool stuff, colonizing other planets, NASA are researching warp technology and have been for a while, exciting times!


----------



## Laurieloz (Apr 8, 2013)

I agree with the most likely explanations here. The brain has shut down which means there cannot be any further existence. We are human, part of the living world. Everythinv esle dies in this way as an end, therefore nothingness has to be final.


----------



## Hera (May 6, 2011)

Leeds89 said:


> Good way to look at things, I wish I could think like that. I get annoyed that we're just starting to do all of the really cool stuff, colonizing other planets, NASA are researching warp technology and have been for a while, exciting times!


I suppose I just accept the things I know I can't change...it's perhaps a good way of reducing stress actually.

I know there's loads of cool stuff ahead but we're also lucky to be alive during some really cool stuff now! And to be honest, our actions as humans is starting to bite us in the bum and I'm kind of glad that I'm most likely going to die before the sh!t really hits the fan! I think we're at quite a sweet spot in time...well, in this developed country anyway.


----------



## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Zola said:


> On of the best threads I've seen on here.
> 
> A lot has been covered and I dont know what else can be said other than no one knows either way for sure.
> 
> ...


The problem with both physic and biology theories is that they can be very hard for regular people to get. If you're not interested in those subjects, you'll most likely skip out all the theories and think Big Bang was just some random explosion that happened out of nowhere. To fully get big bang you'll want to know about quantum physics and cosmology, to get those you'll probably need some knowledge of basic physics too, such as classical mechanics. Now, who the hell wants to do that? It's much easier to just say god created It all.

The human body is incredible and It took us millions of years to get there. Oparin's theory of the origin of life will explain how raw materials became human beings. It makes perfect sense and It's highly accepted. Why is It still a theory? Well... Because It takes millions of years for those raw materials to become human beings?

As for the Higgs Boson, If I give you a vague answer It won't help you get how big It is. It's like saying Big Bang is a big explosion, there was a lot going on in there and you can't really explain it in 6 words.


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ujelly said:


> The problem with both physic and biology theories is that they can be very hard for regular people to get. If you're not interested in those subjects, you'll most likely skip out all the theories and think Big Bang was just some random explosion that happened out of nowhere. To fully get big bang you'll want to know about quantum physics and cosmology, to get those you'll probably need some knowledge of basic physics too, such as classical mechanics. Now, who the hell wants to do that? It's much easier to just say god created It all.
> 
> The human body is incredible and It took us millions of years to get there. Oparin's theory of the origin of life will explain how raw materials became human beings. It makes perfect sense and It's highly accepted. Why is It still a theory? Well... Because It takes millions of years for those raw materials to become human beings?
> 
> As for the Higgs Boson, If I give you a vague answer It won't help you get how big It is. It's like saying Big Bang is a big explosion, there was a lot going on in there and you can't really explain it in 6 words.


ujelly droppin knowledge bombs on our ass


----------



## Zola (Mar 14, 2012)

ujelly said:


> The problem with both physic and biology theories is that they can be very hard for regular people to get. If you're not interested in those subjects, you'll most likely skip out all the theories and think Big Bang was just some random explosion that happened out of nowhere. To fully get big bang you'll want to know about quantum physics and cosmology, to get those you'll probably need some knowledge of basic physics too, such as classical mechanics. Now, who the hell wants to do that? It's much easier to just say god created It all.
> 
> The human body is incredible and It took us millions of years to get there. Oparin's theory of the origin of life will explain how raw materials became human beings. It makes perfect sense and It's highly accepted. Why is It still a theory? Well... Because It takes millions of years for those raw materials to become human beings?
> 
> *As for the Higgs Boson, If I give you a vague answer It won't help you get how big It is. It's like saying Big Bang is a big explosion, there was a lot going on in there and you can't really explain it in 6 words.*


Try me


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

BigTrev said:


> when your dead your dead thats it,,,all these fools believing in the golden gates need a head check.


Its the pearly gates big trev, the golden gate is a very big bridge in San Francisco


----------



## Bashy (Jun 16, 2010)

Nothing is what rocks dream about


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

When I'm dead I won't care, cos I'll be dead.


----------



## Bulk1 (Apr 12, 2007)

Loveleelady said:


> true Christians go to heaven and the rest of yous burn in hell. end of story


If you don't believe in GOD (do the whole church and sandals thing) then your meant to go to hell instead of heaven.. but if you don't believe in it, why is there even a choice of Heaven or Hell? as neither will exist in any case. It's like saying your football team will never win the Premiership League and end up getting relegated at the end of the season! when you don't even support a football team!


----------



## skd (Dec 17, 2008)

you lot need some fcuking dmt lol


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Bulk1 said:


> If you don't believe in GOD (do the whole church and sandals thing) then your meant to go to hell instead of heaven.. but if you don't believe in it, why is there even a choice of Heaven or Hell? as neither will exist in any case. It's like saying your football team will never win the Premiership League and end up getting relegated at the end of the season! when you don't even support a football team!


or its a load of drivel believed by simpletons


----------



## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

One of the lads I work with goes to church every week, really normal good lad too, why he believes in all that old nonsense is beyond me.

He probably believes in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny too.


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm not going anywhere 'cause I ain't dying. If any of you here have been paying attention you;d know I'm with the illuminati and we sold our souls to the devil for eternal life many generations ago... I'm gonna be modding on here and banning people for millennia to come! mwuhuhaha...


----------



## gummyp (Aug 16, 2011)

You become a high protein food supplement


----------



## lukeee (Aug 17, 2009)

gummyp said:


> You become a high protein food supplement


Ol' wheyman missed the boat with that one


----------



## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Zola said:


> Try me


We have the standard model of elementary particles which describes the interaction of the 17 fundamental particles with hundreds of different particles. Higgs boson is one of those fundamental particles and it's required for the Higgs mechanism. Higgs mechanism is the interaction of Higgs field, boson and other particles, which could explain why other particles have mass. If Higgs boson didn't exist, that means we've been looking at particle physics the wrong way.

Why is that a big deal? I made the X theory. 100 other physicists made 100 different theories based on mine. If X theory was proven wrong then 100 different theories would instantly be proven wrong too.


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ujelly said:


> We have the standard model of elementary particles which describes the interaction of the 17 fundamental particles with hundreds of different particles. Higgs boson is one of those fundamental particles and it required for the Higgs mechanism. Higgs mechanism is the interaction of Higgs field, boson and other particles, which could explain why other particles have mass. If Higgs boson didn't exist, that means we've been looking at particle physics the wrong way.
> 
> Why is that a big deal? I made the X theory. 100 other physicists made 100 different theories based on mine. If X theory was proven wrong then 100 different theories would instantly be proven wrong too.


Nice, you should definitely post more


----------



## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

Thanks man. I actually don't know that much though, It's just a hobby.


----------



## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

We become one with the cosmos once more.


----------



## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

It is quite straightforward really. You cannot create or destroy energy - the body and the brain is allowed to live by absorption of chemical energy be it in the form of food or cannibalism of its own flesh. This chemical energy partly provides an electrostimulus to the brain which in turn causes chemical reactions which form your thoughts, regulate your body and are essentially 'you'.

If you remove this source of energy you cease to be in terms of thought process and so on.

The physical being that makes up you will deteriorate and the atoms will transfer, absorb and so on into other things be it in the form of food for bacteria or other animals and or micro-organisms, provide fuel for a fire to burn if cremated and thus be expelled as heat, light and sound energy.

So basically you are re-incarnated and indeed there is a possibility that your particular atoms will reform into something else biological, however the chances are slight.

Without the chemical reaction in your brain you are not you, the same reason that imbalance causes mental illness and trauma in areas of the brain can cause cease of function.

Humans find it hard to accept we are not the center of all things but at the end of the day you came from stardust and eventually you will return to be that.


----------



## Noxchi (May 7, 2013)

Leeds89 said:


> Quite a morbid thread but been trying to get my head around this one and can't for the life of me understand it. What happens when we die? I don't believe in God/heaven all that sort of stuff, but I also find it hard to understand nothingness.
> 
> Anyone have any insights or views? Would be interested to hear what others think


Things will happen that are born before


----------



## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

ujelly said:


> Thanks man. I actually don't know that much though, It's just a hobby.


Find stuff like that fascinating, even if a lot of it goes way over my head


----------



## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

MattGriff said:


> It is quite straightforward really. You cannot create or destroy energy - the body and the brain is allowed to live by absorption of chemical energy be it in the form of food or cannibalism of its own flesh. This chemical energy partly provides an electrostimulus to the brain which in turn causes chemical reactions which form your thoughts, regulate your body and are essentially 'you'.
> 
> If you remove this source of energy you cease to be in terms of thought process and so on.
> 
> ...


Agree with that 100% mate, repped.

And can't rep @ujelly again but very good post, I agree you should post more


----------



## jon-kent (May 20, 2011)

ujelly said:


> We have the standard model of elementary particles which describes the interaction of the 17 fundamental particles with hundreds of different particles. Higgs boson is one of those fundamental particles and it's required for the Higgs mechanism. Higgs mechanism is the interaction of Higgs field, boson and other particles, which could explain why other particles have mass. If Higgs boson didn't exist, that means we've been looking at particle physics the wrong way.
> 
> Why is that a big deal? I made the X theory. 100 other physicists made 100 different theories based on mine. If X theory was proven wrong then 100 different theories would instantly be proven wrong too.


I'd be lying if i said i understood that but it was interesting anyway !

Care for a game of rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock ?? Lol


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

ujelly said:


> We have the standard model of elementary particles which describes the interaction of the 17 fundamental particles with hundreds of different particles. Higgs boson is one of those fundamental particles and it's required for the Higgs mechanism. Higgs mechanism is the interaction of Higgs field, boson and other particles, which could explain why other particles have mass. If Higgs boson didn't exist, that means we've been looking at particle physics the wrong way.
> 
> Why is that a big deal? I made the X theory. 100 other physicists made 100 different theories based on mine. If X theory was proven wrong then 100 different theories would instantly be proven wrong too.


Quantum physics is fascinating, and is what I would have studied if I didn't brick it due to struggling with the equations for quantum wave functions and stuff - just gives me a headache thinking about it even now!

Keep posting like this though, there are enough nerds on here who will appreciate it. :thumbup1:


----------



## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

MattGriff said:


> It is quite straightforward really. You cannot create or destroy energy - the body and the brain is allowed to live by absorption of chemical energy be it in the form of food or cannibalism of its own flesh. This chemical energy partly provides an electrostimulus to the brain which in turn causes chemical reactions which form your thoughts, regulate your body and are essentially 'you'.
> 
> If you remove this source of energy you cease to be in terms of thought process and so on.
> 
> ...


I find it endlessly beautiful to think that all elements other than hydrogen and helium formed in the body of a blazing star, and thus we truly are made mostly of star dust. Is also incredible to think that the hydrogen and helium that exists in us and around us is even older, remnants of the very first matter that existed after the big bang... just amazing.

Us humans are no more important than anything else, but I do believe all living beings have a special-ness that is beyond words, that we are made of the universe and so our consciousness is the universe conscious of itself, able to look at itself and know its own beauty. That to me is fcuking amazing, and so incredible.


----------



## hotchy (Aug 20, 2009)

But if there is nothingness how did that fortune teller woman know everything about my great grandma i never even knew..... wtf..


----------



## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Smitch said:


> One of the lads I work with goes to church every week, really normal good lad too, why he believes in all that old nonsense is beyond me.
> 
> He probably believes in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny too.


The answer is simple, it's an explanation as to why we are here, and a glimmer of hope that we don't just die and that's the end of it, it makes the thought of death less scary, it doesn't make people stupid, it makes them human.. some of the most intelligent people in the world are religious

I'd really like to think there is a God, by that I mean something greater than ourselves.. life after death is bollocks, turning water in to wine is bollocks and I've said it before I'll say it again.. don't even get me started on Islam


----------



## mrbritish (Mar 29, 2013)

dtlv said:


> I'm not going anywhere 'cause I ain't dying. If any of you here have been paying attention you;d know I'm with the illuminati and we sold our souls to the devil for eternal life many generations ago... I'm gonna be modding on here and banning people for millennia to come! mwuhuhaha...


Were you tought to be cautious ?


----------



## JaneN40 (Aug 18, 2012)

Leeds89 said:


> I just find it hard to get my head around "nothing".... I like to understand things, and I just can't understand there being nothing... I don't believe in an afterlife or anything like that, once it's over it's probably over, but trying to imagine that is difficult :/
> 
> I'm pinning all my hopes on being able to transfer my brain to a machine and living forever tbh :lol:


A brain dead person can be kept alive physically by machines.. then they're turned off and nothing.. the nothing is the brain. if it ain't working to that extent it's not registering anything. you don't feel, think, no reflexes.. and the last air expells from our lungs.

That to me is death. Nothing afterwards. I've watched my mum die and held her hand she knew she was going and it was in her control I'm convinced, but once she'd gone.. she'd gone. I didn't feel anything but that there was a body to be disposed of. That likely sounds harsh but it was true, we have ways of showing respect in our burial / cremation of a body and how they're prepared. And we have a way of grieving and showing our loss. none of which make a blind bit of difference to the body.

It's what gets me fed up when people think animals are different to humans. but that's a whole other story! lol


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Staying with the science theme, I find it hard to get my head around the evolution of everything there is.

So it all started with a single cell bacteria that evolved, eventually made it out the water and into land and so forth.

But where did the first tree seed come from? And why is there thousands of species of tree/plant?

And that single cell that evolved, why didn't it just evolve as one species? Why are there thousands of different animals/insects?


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

faultline said:


> Staying with the science theme, I find it hard to get my head around the evolution of everything there is.
> 
> So it all started with a single cell bacteria that evolved, eventually made it out the water and into land and so forth.
> 
> ...


Because although a single cell was the beginning, bacteria multiply rapidly, so soon there would be trillions and trillions of cells, each one with a chance of mutation every time it divides. Then when the new bacteria divides, another chance of mutation etc etc etc and on and on and on. The useful mutations which help it survive persist, the ones that don't, don't get passed on because they don't help their organism survive.

And it would be impossible for trillions of bacteria to evolve into the same thing, they are each slightly different, with each generation introducing new variations which are even more diverse.

It would likely be that plants came from bacteria that had evolved to photosynthesise


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/natural-selection-and-biological-evolution.html


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## Leeds89 (Feb 13, 2012)

JaneN40 said:


> A brain dead person can be kept alive physically by machines.. then they're turned off and nothing.. the nothing is the brain. if it ain't working to that extent it's not registering anything. you don't feel, think, no reflexes.. and the last air expells from our lungs.
> 
> That to me is death. Nothing afterwards. I've watched my mum die and held her hand she knew she was going and it was in her control I'm convinced, but once she'd gone.. she'd gone. I didn't feel anything but that there was a body to be disposed of. That likely sounds harsh but it was true, we have ways of showing respect in our burial / cremation of a body and how they're prepared. And we have a way of grieving and showing our loss. none of which make a blind bit of difference to the body.
> 
> *It's what gets me fed up when people think animals are different to humans. but that's a whole other story!* lol


I agree with this 100%. Whilst I eat a lot of animals, I think they ALL deserve our respect and should only be killed, humanely, out of need for food. Read today that at least 100 MILLION sharks per year are killed by the Chinese for shark fin soup....


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

mrbritish said:


> Were you tought to be cautious ?


Caution is a concept born of fear, and fear is born of not knowing and not accepting... with omnipotence all is known and all is accepted so there is no fear and no need for caution.

The illuminati hide in plain sight - the clue is in the name, 'illuminated', basked in light for all to see.


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Leeds89 said:


> Because although a single cell was the beginning, bacteria multiply rapidly, so soon there would be trillions and trillions of cells, each one with a chance of mutation every time it divides. Then when the new bacteria divides, another chance of mutation etc etc etc and on and on and on. The useful mutations which help it survive persist, the ones that don't, don't get passed on because they don't help their organism survive.
> 
> And it would be impossible for trillions of bacteria to evolve into the same thing, they are each slightly different, with each generation introducing new variations which are even more diverse.
> 
> It would likely be that plants came from bacteria that had evolved to photosynthesise


It was kind of a rhetorical question but thanks anyway! I know what your saying but why would it evolve all those different ways when the first thing survived and thrived? (natural selection)


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## JaneN40 (Aug 18, 2012)

loving how deep this is for 3.30am! Go guys.. :thumbup1:


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Gotta love the nightshift :/


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## ujelly (May 5, 2013)

faultline said:


> Staying with the science theme, I find it hard to get my head around the evolution of everything there is.
> 
> So it all started with a single cell bacteria that evolved, eventually made it out the water and into land and so forth.
> 
> ...


Getting the basics of Oparin's theory of the origin of life is quite easy, but you most likely read It online on some website that oversimplified what happened and left out the really complex stuff. I'll be a bit vague though, I'll explain enough just so your questions gets answered.

There are plenty of chemistry reactions envolved on the primitive atmosphere which can perfectly explain how inorganic molecules became organic compounds which reacted with each other to form complex organic compounds until we got to coacervates, which were able to absorb proteins and other organic compounds resulting in growth and the capacity of multiplying Itself. Coarcevates had the basic properties of life and when they combined itself with nucleic acids they also had genetic material. We call those beings protobionts.

As for plants, their formation wasn't much different. The first organisms were capable of abosbing solar energy and converting It into chemical energy. That's photosynthesis, exactly what plants do. Keep in mind not all plants have seeds, even some modern plants, they have other forms of reproduction. Sadly I'll have to ask you to google about plant evolution. English isn't my first language and I wouldn't be able to be clear enough due to not knowing how to translate some words/terms. I'm not that knowledgeable in botany anyway.

When we talk about primitive organisms, we can't assume they were all equal, they weren't. They were less "stable" than us, suffering constant mutations originating different organisms. Basically, the ones with positive mutations survived and the ones with negative mutations died, that became even more evident when organisms incapable of doing photosynthesis appeared because they would have to compete with each other for food. In millions of years of reproduction between those organisms, they started becoming more similar to each other and eventually suffering less mutations. Mutations still happen though, such as humans with tail.



dtlv said:


> Quantum physics is fascinating, and is what I would have studied if I didn't brick it due to struggling with the equations for quantum wave functions and stuff - just gives me a headache thinking about it even now!
> 
> Keep posting like this though, there are enough nerds on here who will appreciate it. :thumbup1:
> 
> View attachment 120398


I actually wanted to give theoretical physics a go but physicists in Brazil get crappy paychecks and well... money > physics, lol.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Leeds89 said:


> One of the things that provides a small comfort for me is knowing that every atom that makes up the trillions of cells in my body was fused together in the core of an exploding star, and over billions of years eventually taken this form. And one day we go back to a similar state, sort of full circle.


yeah, its nice to know that, when we die, our energy becomes lots of other things


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

ujelly said:


> Getting the basics of Oparin's theory of the origin of life is quite easy, but you most likely read It online on some website that oversimplified what happened and left out the really complex stuff. I'll be a bit vague though, I'll explain enough just so your questions gets answered.
> 
> There are plenty of chemistry reactions envolved on the primitive atmosphere which can perfectly explain how inorganic molecules became organic compounds which reacted with each other to form complex organic compounds until we got to coacervates, which were able to absorb proteins and other organic compounds resulting in growth and the capacity of multiplying Itself. Coarcevates had the basic properties of life and when they combined itself with nucleic acids they also had genetic material. We call those beings protobionts.
> 
> ...


Another physicist? Or a very well read person nevertheless...welcome.


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