# 1st cycle (dbol 14/14)



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi all,

I've been training for a couple of years and reading the board for quite some time now and have decided to run my first cycle.

I have decided to run a 14 day on, 14 day off cycle of dbol and repeat as desired. I may turn it into a 14 day, 21 off. I'm going to use 20mg each day, first thing in the morning. I'm going to have some nolva on hand just in case. I'm also going to use creatine & trib' in the off weeks and use milk thistle on all days. ZMA will be taken every night, too.

I'll be training 3 days per week, concentrating on compound moves.

My diet is good and varied.

Is there any advice people who have run this cycle can give me?

Thanks in advance guys! Excited and nervous!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh and if you hadn't guessed by my name, my target it to hit 13 stone and drop my bodyfat so I can see my abs properly (I can see the top one slightly). I'm at 11 3/4 stone.


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

You will need to split the dose so you are taking something 3 times a day... With the short half-life of dbol it needs to be run like thisfor max gains. Apart from that it seems like you have read up on the topic, good luck.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

i agree, dbol only has a half life of around 2hours, in my opinion u should take 30mg eachday e.g. two tabs for breakie, lunch and dinner


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

megatron said:


> You will need to split the dose so you are taking something 3 times a day... With the short half-life of dbol it needs to be run like thisfor max gains. Apart from that it seems like you have read up on the topic, good luck.


Thanks, I'll keep a diary and let you guys know how it goes


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

gym rat said:


> i agree, dbol only has a half life of around 2hours, in my opinion u should take 30mg eachday e.g. two tabs for breakie, lunch and dinner


Thanks, I'd like to try and stick to 20mg to start off with and see how I go, but if you reckon splitting it up is best I can certainly do that.

Anyone else got any thoughts?


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

Why not start with 10mg or even 5? if your in no particular rush. Sam69 got results on even 5mg. the lower you start the more room there is for improvement when things stall. I would also suggest that you take it first thing in the am upon waking as the reason for the small dose is for only 14 days is so that your body doesn't shut down (or at least to any noticeable degree) and therefore you shouldn't need PCT.

If you split the dose then i think the feeling is that your body may notice that your putting sythetic test into your body and it may shut you down more than if you take the dose in one go first thing in the am..............

if your goign to go for 14x14 then try it with as little as possible, if you dont see results then change.


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## gym rat (Jul 10, 2007)

splitting it up would be far more beneficial mate, as it will keep ur receptures more active throughout the day rather than just for a few hours, best of luck with ur cycle, and let us know how u get on


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

fits said:


> Why not start with 10mg or even 5? if your in no particular rush. Sam69 got results on even 5mg. the lower you start the more room there is for improvement when things stall. I would also suggest that you take it first thing in the am upon waking as the reason for the small dose is for only 14 days is so that your body doesn't shut down (or at least to any noticeable degree) and therefore you shouldn't need PCT.
> 
> If you split the dose then i think the feeling is that your body may notice that your putting sythetic test into your body and it may shut you down more than if you take the dose in one go first thing in the am..............
> 
> if your goign to go for 14x14 then try it with as little as possible, if you dont see results then change.


Hi Fits,

I'm not in a massive rush, no, if you think it's worth it then I'll try 10mg to start of with for the first 2 week cycle and see how it goes 

Anyone else?


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

by the way im tryin gTbol at 10mg right now. I have noticed a definate strength increase (placebo effect maybe) and a pump. I think the effects will be more noticeable with Dbol :beer1:


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

DO NOT SPLIT THE DOSE UP.....

Take your 10mgs first thing in a morning to coinside with natural peak levels...

If I remeber correctly the half life of dbol is 5+hrs...


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Ok so the votes are stacking up for taking the whole lot first thing in the AM.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

(Thanks for this by the way, first cycle feels like a very big deal for me and I appreciate people taking the time to help make sure I don't screw it up..)


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Have you read both these 2 topics?

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/7902-d-bol-day-6th-june.html

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/8335-70s-cycles.html

Also how old are you?

What is your training & diet like?

Why have you decided to run a cycle?


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

13stonetarget said:


> Anyone else have any thoughts?


Yeah listen to cookie bro. He knows his stuff and helped sam69 out a lot when he did the 14/14 cycle.

I am no gear guru, far bloody from it. But i thought the idea of taking the low dose dbol was to try and trick your body in a sense, take the dose early morning and it kinda piggy backs your natural test production. So you should (maybe) avoid shutdown on the 14 on/ 14 off cycle.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Have you read both these 2 topics?
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/7902-d-bol-day-6th-june.html
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/8335-70s-cycles.html


Yes thanks, I found those really interesting, I read through both of them at least twice I think!



ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Also how old are you?


I'm nearly 26.



ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> What is your training & diet like?


My training works something like this:

Monday - Chest:

Flat bench 5x5

Incline DB press 5x5

Flies 5x5

Wednesday - Back

Barbell rows 5x5

Chins / pullups 5x5

Single arm DB rows 5x5

Deads 5x5

Friday - Legs

Squats (wide and close leg) 5x5

Lunges 5x5

Sumo squat 5x5

Following Monday - Shoulders

Military press 5x5

DB shoulder press 5x5

Front raise 5x5

Shrugs 5x5

I throw in ab stuff from time to time, try to avoid working things like triceps, bi's etc too close (e.g. chest then shoulders) by changing the order a bit.

As for food, an average day could look something like:

Meal 1:

4 scrambled eggs on wholemeal toast with OJ

or

Oats with a protein shake

Meal 2:

Yoghurt, fruit and some nuts

or

Protein bar or shake

Meal 3:

Tuna & jacket potatoe

or

Chicken salad

or

Tinned oily fish on wholemeal toast with salad

Meal 4:

Peanut butter sandwich

or

Shake & fruit

etc

Meal 5:

Meat (steak or chicken or lamb etc) & veg

or

Fajhitas

or something else without too much carbs in

Meal 6:

Casein shake before bed or peanut butter on toast

Something like that.



ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Why have you decided to run a cycle?


Honest answer? Because I can achieve my goals more quickly. I'm not focussed on competing or becoming massive like some of you fellas, but I'd like to accelerate my gains. I don't find it easy to put on weight so would like to try a small series of cycles which I believe if done properly should minimise potential health risks (short, weak cycle) while helping speed up the process.

Thanks again... waiting for my diet, training and thoughts to be pulled apart :lol:


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## megatron (Apr 21, 2004)

Honeslty I think you could get to your target weight by eating more and changing your routine about.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> My training works something like this:
> 
> Monday - Chest:
> 
> ...


Nice to see another 5x5 fan:beer1:

Why is your routine done the way it is?

Do you use the same weight per set or build up?

My thinking is that it is a little heavy on the sets side (volume) per muscle group and I feel you`d benefit much more from doing a fullbody workout twice per week with much fewer sets but more intensity...


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

megatron said:


> Honeslty I think you could get to your target weight by eating more and changing your routine about.


I am sure you're right, my thinking is this though:

I want to put on approaching 2 stone of muscle, say 20ish pounds. Working on the 1lb per month approach, which I haven't been able to hit, that's just under two years. At the rate that I seem to be able to achieve muscle, it'd be more like 3.5 years. I'd like to achieve it quicker 

I'm sure some of you are going to think I'm a prat for taking this mentality / approach.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Nice to see another 5x5 fan:beer1:
> 
> Why is your routine done the way it is?
> 
> ...


My training has just developed into this over time from seeing what other people have success with. I use the same weight each set, not to failure except on the last set maybe I hit failure. I try to put more weight on every few weeks.

So you reckon drop the 5x5? Or simply drop the number of exercises and keep 5x5 compound ones?

Thanks


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> My training has just developed into this over time from seeing what other people have success with. I use the same weight each set, not to failure except on the last set maybe I hit failure. I try to put more weight on every few weeks.
> 
> So you reckon drop the 5x5? Or simply drop the number of exercises and keep 5x5 compound ones?
> 
> Thanks


This is what I would suggest for 4 weeks BEFORE you hit you cycle, to see if we can get your natural test & Gh levels rising and in doing so add some weight to you and your lifts... Drugfree...

When the gains stale then add in a small small dose of gear to just kick start the gains again...

Squats do 1 warm up set of 40-50% or your 10 rep max...

Now the work sets for whole of body...

Squats 1x20 reps taking 3-5 breaths between each rep....







use a weight you would normally use for 10 reps and keep grinding them out rest pause (3-5 breaths) style till you hit 20...then rack and throw up...rest for 10 minutes...

Rest of workout....

Bench press 2x10

Standing press behind head 2x10

Bent over rows 2x10

Barbell curls 1x10

Lying tricep extensions (dumbbells) 1x10

Stiff legged deadlift 1x15

Core Work

This aint a pretty pretty pumping workout, its brutal if you have the balls to do it right. I`m using the same workout (except 1 squat session is changed to deadlifts for 1 individual) with 2 other guys and they are both growing & growing on it....

EDIT*******

Just like to add it is a nice change to see somebody researching something so well before they actually do it....

Good on ya..


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cheers Cookie, I'll give it a go. I'm doing all the research now because I'm planning on starting mid-late September after getting back from holidays with the Mrs. Seems like a good idea to get in a week or so of proper relaxing before going hard at the weights. Between now and then I'll give the routine above a go, 3 times a week?

Cheers mate!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Also, cheers for the PM, more stuff to read


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Cheers Cookie, I'll give it a go. I'm doing all the research now because I'm planning on starting mid-late September after getting back from holidays with the Mrs. Seems like a good idea to get in a week or so of proper relaxing before going hard at the weights. Between now and then I'll give the routine above a go, 3 times a week?
> 
> Cheers mate!


Twice a week will be ample.... for now...


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Also, cheers for the PM, more stuff to read


My pleasure...


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

i thought the half life was 3 to 5 hours

i would splitt the dose so your on as much as poss while your taking


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## Bulldozer (Nov 24, 2006)

jjb1 said:


> i thought the half life was 3 to 5 hours
> 
> i would splitt the dose so your on as much as poss while your taking


This is basically taking dbol as a supplement tho, not a cycle of steriods.

You have to understand the thinking behind it


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

I would listen to cookie on all this

we worked it through........well

i posted a full and thorough diary on here from start to fininsh and with regular updates pics included

Try things out like this if it works then its brillaint, if you dont see any changes or gains then.......what have you lost.........the price of a few d-bol and a few weeks more with out any extra gains


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been training for a couple of years and reading the board for quite some time now and have decided to run my first cycle.
> 
> ...


sounds good to me...though i would try with the lower doses fiirst.........i gained on only 5mg per day


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

S69, thanks for the replies, it's appreciated! I'll start off low and see how I go! I will keep you guys posted. Cookie, I'm going to try your suggestion above starting next week. Thanks guys.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> S69, thanks for the replies, it's appreciated! I'll start off low and see how I go! I will keep you guys posted. *Cookie, I'm going to try your suggestion above starting next week*. Thanks guys.


*Look forward to seeing the results*


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Standing press behind head 2x10


OSC, most chaps on here advocate avoiding these due to rotator cuff issues.

What are your thoughts?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

SCJP said:


> OSC, most chaps on here advocate avoiding these due to rotator cuff issues.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


I find them ok to do as long as they are in the standing position, abs, glutes braced/tensed and the bar is not lowered right down to the base of the neck but to roughly the top spinal vertabrea(sp), so roughly bottom of ears. And people keep their egos in check and are sensible with the weights they use til they have proper form..


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Ta.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys, quick update: got my dbol and nolva now.

I'm still planning on starting in a few weeks. In the mean time, I'm going to try cookies' suggestion above and also have a week in the sun.

From the reading I've been doing I'm not expecting to have to carry out PCT, can anyone confirm for me? I'm going to be initially running 10mg ED first thing in the morning 14/14 or 14/21.

Cheers!


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi guys, quick update: got my dbol and nolva now.
> 
> I'm still planning on starting in a few weeks. In the mean time, I'm going to try cookies' suggestion above and also have a week in the sun.
> 
> ...


 good stuff keep us updated


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

fits said:


> good stuff keep us updated


Will do 

Do you reckon I'll be okay re: pct above?

Thanks! :lift:


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

13stonetarget said:


> Will do
> 
> Do you reckon I'll be okay re: pct above?
> 
> Thanks! :lift:


i can only speak for my self, but i only felt it necessary on the first cycle i did which was at the higher dose of 15mg.................on 10mg and lower, i didnt feel it necessary, but it was always available


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

samurai69 said:


> i can only speak for my self, but i only felt it necessary on the first cycle i did which was at the higher dose of 15mg.................on 10mg and lower, i didnt feel it necessary, but it was always available


Thanks for the reply fella!

At that sort of dose over such short periods, what sort of PCT would I be looking at if it were necessary?

Thanks again, you're becoming a very useful resource for this sort of cycle!


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

13stonetarget said:


> Thanks for the reply fella!
> 
> At that sort of dose over such short periods, what sort of PCT would I be looking at if it were necessary?
> 
> Thanks again, you're becoming a very useful resource for this sort of cycle!


that was the intention when i started the journal after long discussions with cookie and others

i only took nolva when i thjought i may have had start of gyn, probably was in my mind, as it never happened after wards, but cookie really is the one to ask about this

i would be interested in the 14x21, though i do rate the 14x14, but as i was getting towards the end i did think towards adding a couple of days in the off part, more a 14x16, but that does start to complicate things further.....so maybe 14x14 is still the way to go


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Thanks mate, I've got nolva on hand in case.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

If you have any doudts about gyno, then do the first couple of cycles with just 5mgs per day to gauge how your body reacts to the drug..


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys (cookie in particular),

I've just started my first cycle, I'm going to put some information up soon letting you know how I'm getting on with it.

Cookie, before I went away for a week on holiday with the Mrs I did 3 sessions of the workout you proposed for me. Tiring.  It didn't make any noticeable difference to me though over the week or two that I did it for but I am likely going to use it as a base for my workouts though.

Thank you all for your feedback so far.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

sounds interesting


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I am also contemplating doing a similar cycle to this over the coming weeks. Will watch your posts with interest!


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi guys (cookie in particular),
> 
> I've just started my first cycle, I'm going to put some information up soon letting you know how I'm getting on with it.
> 
> ...


Good idea to use it as your base,

TBH 3 sessions are probably not enough for you to reap full benefits but as you say its a tiring workout but well worth it in the end...


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## u.i (Sep 3, 2007)

Ive been doing the 20 rep squat workout and its a killer!

There's an article on it here http://bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer5.htm


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys,

Right, here's a quick update on my first week. I'm on day 6 of my first cycle and thus far I've done 2 days at 5mg ED and the last 4 days at 10mg ED. My diet has been pretty solid but I've only managed to train once in the past 6 days because I've had a really crappy cold and wanted to rest as much as possible to get rid of it. I'm training again tonight though, and I'm going to train 3 times over the next week.

Interestingly, I've been hovering at 11st 8lbs for a few months now and in the past week I've gone up to... 11st 13lbs. WTF!?

I've had no sides thus far and am feeling good.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

I would have stayed at 5mgs as it seems to be working.....


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> I would have stayed at 5mgs as it seems to be working.....


I might go down to 5mg tomorrow AM. Surely some of the weight I've put on must be water right?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> I might go down to 5mg tomorrow AM. Surely some of the weight I've put on must be water right?


Yeah some water weight, so another good reason to keep the dose right down then you don`t go on a roller coaster when on then off..


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2007)

14 on 14 off what is the point in that???! Your still going to be shut down, sounds like a horrible idea to me.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Yeah some water weight, so another good reason to keep the dose right down then you don`t go on a roller coaster when on then off..


Very good point, thanks mate


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

Con said:


> 14 on 14 off what is the point in that???! Your still going to be shut down, sounds like a horrible idea to me.


 have a read of the thread and you will get the point


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

fits said:


> have a read of the thread and you will get the point


I think you may have to point him in the right direction to that HUGE thread that was done and proved it worked....


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> I think you may have to point him in the right direction to that HUGE thread that was done and proved it worked....


Con, get yourself something to drink and have a read.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/7902-d-bol-day-6th-june.html

Happy reading mate!


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2007)

13stonetarget said:


> Con, get yourself something to drink and have a read.
> 
> http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/7902-d-bol-day-6th-june.html
> 
> Happy reading mate!


Lol ok i take back my previous post until i have read this.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

Con said:


> Lol ok i take back my previous post until i have read this.


 See you in about a year then lol its a loooooooooong thread!!!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

:lol:


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## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Everyone,

13sttarget - Hope you dont mind me latching on this thread, but I too started 14/14 cycle just over 2 weeks ago on 10mg. Originally posted on the infamous 6th June Thread - But as doing it at the same timeas you thought it would be good to post on here.

Training Weights 3x per week, HIIT 2x. Planing to do 4 cycles before Christmas. Only drinking alchol on 1 weekend (in Dublin, so have too, obviously!). Diet has been excellent and clean so far... and plan to keep it that way.

In 2 weeks on, I added strength everywhere, most notably 10kg to Bench and Shoulder Press (Training reps). Weight only gone up 1.5kg (but still up), and Body Fat appears reduced (tho not confirmed as leant callipers to friend who has lost them) No sides, possibly slightly more aggressive, and sleeping for 30-60mins more a day.

5 days in to off (tho on Creatine and Trib for 10days then 4 clean) weight and stregth still same. Havent felt quite as well especially at the start of training, tho been feeling better towards end of training... Dont know if its down to extra exersion in the previous 2 weeks/ just feeling under the weather/ (embarressed to ask but... does anyone think it could be a form of shut down?)

Cant wait till next 14 days on! Wallop!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

No worries mate, hope it continues to go well for you 

I trained tonight, didn't raise weights tonight as I didn't have a spotter with me but did extra reps so I've made progress. Feeling good, eaten lots today, slept lots for the past couple of nights and I've got a relaxed weekend ahead of me with more opportunities to train. Awesome.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

Rono26 said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> 13sttarget - Hope you dont mind me latching on this thread, but I too started 14/14 cycle just over 2 weeks ago on 10mg. Originally posted on the infamous 6th June Thread - But as doing it at the same timeas you thought it would be good to post on here.
> 
> ...


i cant say i noticed any drop off to normal training though i probably was a bit more aggressive in my training towards the end of the 14 day cycle and during the 14 days off this may have dropped slightly


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I've not noticed any change in my personality from taking 5/10mg a day, but TBH I didn't expect to. If anything I feel more chilled out. I think I might be sleeping better, too.

BTW, Cookie, I've gone back down to 5mg today.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Rono26 said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> 13sttarget - Hope you dont mind me latching on this thread, but I too started 14/14 cycle just over 2 weeks ago on 10mg. Originally posted on the infamous 6th June Thread - But as doing it at the same timeas you thought it would be good to post on here.
> 
> ...


I would cut your training back to 2 wholebody sessions a week if your doing the High Intensity Interval Training (cardio) twice per week, you could be slighty over exurting(sp) yourself....

If problems do persist them 2 alternatives are open to you..

Drop dose to just 5mgs per day or do 14/21 instead of 14/14...

I`m more in favour of the 14/21 these days as a more cautious longer term route...


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> BTW, Cookie, I've gone back down to 5mg today.


Good I think it`ll be better suited to you for a few more cycles atleast, especially with that beast of a workout your doing...

Might be worth you posting it up so that people can see everythiong your doing not just the drug side of things..


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Good I think it`ll be better suited to you for a few more cycles atleast, especially with that beast of a workout your doing...
> 
> Might be worth you posting it up so that people can see everythiong your doing not just the drug side of things..


Hey Cookie, sure thing, I'll get some more detail in my entries


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys.

Diet hasn't been great this weekend, I've been really busy running around sorting things out round the house, etc. I'm still on 5mg ED and trained mid afternoon today.

Did a basic all over routine today (alternating between a workout based on Cookie's and the below), felt pretty tired and didn't have a spotter so didn't go as hard as I could have.

Squats 60kg (20x20)

Bench 60kg (8x8)

Pull ups (5x5x4)

Deads 85kg (5x5x5)

Military press 35kg (12x8x8)

Finished up with some abs work

Still at the same weight as last time, 11st 13lbs.

Ps. Squats suck because I don't have a squat rack or similiar, so have to do low weights slowly as it's difficult getting the weight into position. I also lacked a spotter this session


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## SCJP (Sep 8, 2005)

Squats 20x20!!

Did I read that correctly?

That would be 400 reps....perhaps over training a teeny weeny bit?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

SCJP said:


> Squats 20x20!!
> 
> Did I read that correctly?
> 
> That would be 400 reps....perhaps over training a teeny weeny bit?


 :lol: no mate, I mean I did 20 reps, then another 20 reps 

It's just the way I write it down, that's all


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Rono26, any update?


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## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

OSC - Cheers. Dropped one of my HIIT sessions this week, have felt better, not sure if was over doing it or just under the weather. Will keep at 1 a week with 3 weights for next 2 cycles... might go back up to 2x HITT sessions just before Christmas to try and look my best for a Holiday 

If still experiance problems will drop to the 14/21...

13st - Just did last Weights session on my 14 off... felt good for 1st time in over a week so tried to up weight on Bench Press +5kg on each training set (having added 5kg on each week during 14 days on) failed on last 2 sets. Strength definately stayed the same over 14 days, and i think up slightly.

Measurements due 2moro to see what ive lost/gained on 2 weeks off. Will let you know at begining of next week. Feel like ive kept the added size, defo looking leaner in the mirror.

Still took my creatine etc today... So will only have 3 days clean. Im really looking fwd to next 2 weeks on. Im rating this cycle so far. Keep thinking about hitting it harder to get some big gains... but know slow and steady will win the race... I have a plan and gonna stick to it.

Will post strength measurement results at end of each week cycle. + any other information that may be relevant.

Hope all is going well on your routine 13st?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys,

I'm a couple of days into the 14 days off now. Feelings so far:

- at this stage, weight is still up by about 5lbs, I'm hoping a couple of pounds of this is muscle

- no sides other than I reckon I was slightly shutdown as wasn't getting morning wood anywhere near as frequently!

- strength improved, all my lifts were up

I'm taking trib, ZMA and creatine at the moment.

New cycle in a little under 2 weeks.


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> - no sides other than I reckon I was slightly shutdown as wasn't getting morning wood anywhere near as frequently!


Might be worth just doing 5mgs per day instead of the 10....


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Cookie, I stuck to the 5mg as you suggested, probably just as well eh!?


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hey Cookie, I stuck to the 5mg as you suggested, probably just as well eh!?


Very much so....lol...


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I was using the toilet a **** load yesterday afternoon/evening and I reckon it might be the water coming out of my muscles, as I wasn't really drinking that much. The scales reckon I've dropped a pound or so, too.


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> I was using the toilet a **** load yesterday afternoon/evening and I reckon it might be the water coming out of my muscles, as I wasn't really drinking that much. The scales reckon I've dropped a pound or so, too.


Don`t over think or get critical of everything that happens differently, you`ll make yourself paranoid and loose weight. Just go about your day(s) as normal, go to gym finish and forget about everything...

Also not eating enough carbs make you drop water quite fast...


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Thanks for the reply Cookie, I'm not too fussed as I was expecting a little weight to come off, it might be interesting for others to know how things have gone for me if they're interested in doing the same


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

when i did my journal i logged as much info as possible as it was a new system, but as cookie says dont get too critical or over analyse things, i still think d-bol like this can be used whilst cutting, so for a small amount of weight to come off isnt a bad thing as long as its not muscle,


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cheers guys. I've just got a new mattress, I've got a new bed coming this Friday and I also put up new blackout curtains last weekend. I've had a lot of trouble sleeping recently and these things have helped improve my sleep quite a lot so I'm hoping it will help me long term with gains


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Cheers guys. I've just got a new mattress, I've got a new bed coming this Friday and I also put up new blackout curtains last weekend. I've had a lot of trouble sleeping recently and these things have helped improve my sleep quite a lot so I'm hoping it will help me long term with gains


Try lavendar oil, natrasleep tablets, sleepy time tea (sainsburys) if you haven`t already..


----------



## Mr Brown (Mar 20, 2007)

Vallium works quite well too :bounce:


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Slender said:


> Vallium works quite well too :bounce:


So avoid like the plague..........


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Thanks guys, I think I'll stay away from valium etc 

I've used melatonin from time-to-time with mixed results. Sometimes I sleep very well, other times it makes no difference. Thanks for the other tips Cookie.

BTW, I appreciate you guys taking the time to post tips / answers etc for me..


----------



## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

Back on for 5 days now. Strength slightly up, but not the same gains as the 1st week last time. Noticed the morning wood back with a bang as well!

I currently take my 10mg at 7:00, when i get up... and train at 12:30....

From what i understand, the ideal time to take my 10mg would be around 5:30 and then train as early as possible as well...

Firstly is this line of thinking correct and if so, when would be the 'ideal' time to train?

Secondly - If i couldnt change my training time when would be the 'ideal' time to take my 10mg? Still at 5:30.... or closer to my training session? I believe that in trying to trick my body that im not taking anything then 5:30 is important, but training would benifit from taking later, closer to my training time?!

Thoughts please....

p.s got 300 on DVD to watch this weekend! cant wait! Smackdown!


----------



## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

Also... use valerian root when have trouble sleeping or need to have early night to catch up on a few hours... get it from Holland & Barrett... and feel it works best when i empty the capsules in to a cup and make it in to a tea.... tastes rancid! works like a charm!


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cheers for the sleep tips Rono.

I've been wondering about the timing of mine too, it's a long way away from when I train and since the half life is so short, am I getting the best from it?

I understand the principle of keeping it as close to my own test peaks as possible.

Cookie, what are your thoughts?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Cheers for the sleep tips Rono.
> 
> I've been wondering about the timing of mine too, it's a long way away from when I train and since the half life is so short, am I getting the best from it?
> 
> ...


Keep taking it as early as possible to tie in with natural test production at its early morning peak..


----------



## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

I thought you would say that.

Ive been looking for the chart which showed the natural levels throughout the day and night but cant find it. I seem to recall it peaking around 5:30, does anyone know? I think i will set my alarm to get up and take it at that time, then go back to sleep till i have to! Tho im also considering training before work if this will help maximise my gains?!


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Rono26 said:


> I thought you would say that.
> 
> Ive been looking for the chart which showed the natural levels throughout the day and night but cant find it. I seem to recall it peaking around 5:30, does anyone know? I think i will set my alarm to get up and take it at that time, then go back to sleep till i have to! Tho im also considering training before work if this will help maximise my gains?!


The chart is either in sam69`s thread or the 70`s cycle thread.

It was one hacks posted up...


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## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

Yep cheers found it... was on Sams... was earlier on than i remembered.

Here is the page incase anyone else wants to have a look at it.

Seems 7am is when it peaks... but im thinking logically you want to take it shortly before this time to allow it to get in to your system?!


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## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

Sorry -

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/7902-d-bol-day-6th-june-9.html


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

> Seems 7am is when it peaks... but im thinking logically you want to take it shortly before this time to allow it to get in to your system?!


Pop it under your tongue and let it dissolve there for quick absorbtion at 7am mate


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I'll try that next cycle, only another 4 days


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> I'll try that next cycle, only another 4 days


I would stick with what your doing at the moment.....

Lets not try to run before we can walk..


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> I would stick with what your doing at the moment.....
> 
> Lets not try to run before we can walk..


 :lol: ok Cookie, again I will bow to and trust in your superior knowledge


----------



## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

awesome, another 14 x 14 thread, I look forward to seeing how you gents progress! 

Would grapefruit juice not help with the absorbation and usage of the dbol or is that a myth that its meant to amplify the effects of it?


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Cap, I've drunk grapefruit juice some mornings, not sure if it helps or not TBH!

Cookie, is it worth me taking a small dose (say 5-10mg), of Nolva ED during my next cycle to keep water retention down? Will it have any effect on that?

Thanks!


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hey Cap, I've drunk grapefruit juice some mornings, not sure if it helps or not TBH!
> 
> Cookie, is it worth me taking a small dose (say 5-10mg), of Nolva ED during my next cycle to keep water retention down? Will it have any effect on that?
> 
> Thanks!


Is the water retention bad, effecting you in a negative way...?


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Is the water retention bad, effecting you in a negative way...?


Not at all buddy, not one bit. I was just wondering if it would prevent / reduce the amount of water so I'm only putting on muscle weight?

I presume you think this isn't a good idea?

Thanks


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Not at all buddy, not one bit. I was just wondering if it would prevent / reduce the amount of water so I'm only putting on muscle weight?
> 
> I presume you think this isn't a good idea?
> 
> Thanks


Muscle`s 70% water anyways ..lol...

If your not having any negative effects gyno wise then not needed but I`ll pm you some stuff on that:smoke:


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys!

New cycle starts tomorrow, 5mg ED. I've laid off of creatine for the past 4-5 days and have continued used of trib etc. Weight is still at 11st 13lbs, so I've not actually dropped any weight since the end of the first cycle two weeks ago.

Bring it on!


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> New cycle starts tomorrow, 5mg ED. I've laid off of creatine for the past 4-5 days and have continued used of trib etc. Weight is still at 11st 13lbs, so I've not actually dropped any weight since the end of the first cycle two weeks ago.
> 
> Bring it on!


Nice one.....

Onwards & upwards...

Hope your still beasting those workouts...


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cycle started today, 5mg. Trained back & legs.

Squats 50kg x 10, 70kg x 20,20

Pullups 7,7

Deads 70kg x 8, 90kg x 6,7

Barbell rows 60kg x 8,8

Barbell bicep curls 25 x 8,8

Diet has been reasonable today. Looking forward to 2 weeks of working hard and eating lots 

Meal 1: Banana, protein shake (2 scoops MP hard gainer, 1 table spoon flax seed, raspberries, milk), apple

NO-Xplode (pre-workout)

Meal 2: PWO shake (2 scoops MP recover, 1 table spoon flax, 1 banana, milk, BCAA's, milk)

Meal 3: Large baked potato, tuna, mayo, sweet corn

Meal 4: Sunflower seeds

Meal 5: Spaghetti bolognese

Meal 6: Peanut butter on 2 x wholemeal toast

Meal 7: MP bedtime shake (caseine)

Didn't eat as much in the morning as I would have liked to today and I've relied on shakes too much, I've been pretty busy running around, doing stuff at home, walking the dog etc.

Tomorrow I'm going to get back onto proper whole food.

Cheers 

Ps. how many of you do cardio post weight training? Is that a good time for burning fat or should I stick to pre-breakfast?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Afternoon!

Diet has improved over the past couple of days. The weekend is going to be more difficult though as I'm going away with the mrs & the dog for a couple of days. I'll have to chuck a load of food and a tub of protein in the back of the car 

Weight was a touch over 12 stone this morning.

I'm either going to train tonight or tomorrow night and concentrate on chest & shoulders.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Morning, diet is has been pretty good the past couple of days. Trained chest & shoulders yesterday, was hard work as I was really tired, I've not slept well the past few nights.

Still on 5mg per day, no sides. Weight was just over the 12stone mark this morning.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Would prefer you doing a full body routine 2-3 times per week rather than a split routine..


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Would prefer you doing a full body routine 2-3 times per week rather than a split routine..


Hey Cookie,

Do you believe I'd see better results doing that (obviously since you've suggested it...!!!) ?

I have felt I am able to work harder with a split because I can keep the workouts a bit shorter and not get as tired towards the end - does this make any difference?


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hey Cookie,
> 
> Do you believe I'd see better results doing that (obviously since you've suggested it...!!!) ?
> 
> I have felt I am able to work harder with a split because I can keep the workouts a bit shorter and not get as tired towards the end - does this make any difference?


Total body will stress more natural hormonal release, the split routines can overly stress your CNS so you never fully recover before bounding another couple muscle groups a couple days later..

Horses for courses....IMHO...

Stick with this for now then maybe switch over to fullbody next time..


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cheers Cookie, I'm away for the weekend with the Mrs so next training is now Monday I think. How about full body for the two weeks "off cycle" and splits for the two weeks "on" ?

Diet was reasonable yesterday, had a birthday thing in the evening so it went a bit pear shaped towards the end:

- Scrambled eggs on toast

- Tin of tuna in 2 slices of wholemeal with a little mayo

- Baked potato, tin of oily fish (can't remember which!), mixed salad

- Protein shake, apple, banana

- Fish finger sandwich (wholemeal)

- Pizza

I was snacking on pistachios during the day too.


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Cheers Cookie, I'm away for the weekend with the Mrs so next training is now Monday I think. How about full body for the two weeks "off cycle" and splits for the two weeks "on" ?


Worth a shot....


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Worth a shot....


I was guessing a full body one might help get my own test' levels up when not using the dbol, whereas my recovery should be better during the use of dbol so I should recover better during each 'split' session. Maybe!?


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> I was guessing a full body one might help get my own test' levels up when not using the dbol, whereas my recovery should be better during the use of dbol so I should recover better during each 'split' session. Maybe!?


Why not take advantage of the *high natural* secretions on the 20 rep squat program whilst on a cycle and get more bang for your buck:beer1:


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## justdiscovering (May 10, 2007)

ok ok I give in im convinced...cookie I think you're a fcucking genius:first:by the end of the month im gonna make my first ever cycle a 14x14,the evidence is clear,im in no big rush and from all the 14x14 logs ive read and obviously with master cookie on the job the games is a winner.im 38 this year and just getting to grips with the final preps for the cycle.just one question as im starting on 5mg d-bol what is the percentage that gyno would affect me on this dose.............sorry to hijack the thread but just wanted someone doing the 14x14 to give me the advice i need many thanks....


----------



## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

justdiscovering said:


> ok ok I give in im convinced...cookie I think you're a fcucking genius:first:by the end of the month im gonna make my first ever cycle a 14x14,the evidence is clear,im in no big rush and from all the 14x14 logs ive read and obviously with master cookie on the job the games is a winner.im 38 this year and just getting to grips with the final preps for the cycle.just one question as im starting on 5mg d-bol what is the percentage that gyno would affect me on this dose.............sorry to hijack the thread but just wanted someone doing the 14x14 to give me the advice i need many thanks....


I believe it has been said that on a dosage as low as 5mg and espescially if only on for 14 days you *shouldnt* see much in the way of any side effects if at all, but Cookie will know.


----------



## justdiscovering (May 10, 2007)

thanks cap much appreciated.


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

Just wanted to add that Cookie has got me on a 2 days a week routine.

I've lost fat and gained muscle without intending to.

After a few weeks my test levels went mental and i got the horn so much i had to go off and spread my love with some lucky lady :bounce:

Just finished training for a few fights and ready to give the training 100% again. Really looking forward to the strength going through the roof and the whole thing coming together nicely!!

P.S Not on any dbol 14x14 at the mo, but will retry again in maybe a year. I say retry as i had a bash last year but my dbols were snidey and were really M1T :rage:


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

justdiscovering said:


> ok ok I give in im convinced...cookie I think you're a fcucking genius:first:by the end of the month im gonna make my first ever cycle a 14x14,the evidence is clear,im in no big rush and from all the 14x14 logs ive read and obviously with master cookie on the job the games is a winner.im 38 this year and just getting to grips with the final preps for the cycle.just one question as im starting on 5mg d-bol what is the percentage that gyno would affect me on this dose.............sorry to hijack the thread but just wanted someone doing the 14x14 to give me the advice i need many thanks....


LOL, thanks for the complimment but I`m far from being a genius or I`d have been Mr Olympia years ago:lift:

Speaking from my own gear experiances I never suffered with gyno even when I didn`t use nolvadex on big cycles, but hey I must just have been a bit of a freak that way....

If your *weary* of it happening then I would suggest having some nolvadex on hand to ease your mind....

At 5mgs and with your age I wouldn`t suspect you would have any probs, Sam69 is a tad older than you and he never suffered any probs during his many months of using the cycle....

Make sure to keep your diet *clean & healthy* alcohol under control and training to be within your recovery capabilities or no matter what drugs you take you will not reap the results, unless of course you prepared to ingest multiple grams of gear and other drugs weekly...But thats another story...

I would suggest you post up your diet and training regime and we can fine tune things before you start, that way you`ll be ready for the off from word GO...


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Lux said:


> Just wanted to add that Cookie has got me on a 2 days a week routine.
> 
> I've lost fat and gained muscle without intending to.
> 
> ...


Your just a genetic freak the way you respond to the beasting...:love:


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey guys, good to hear other people are interested in this as a way forward. Small is a good way to start if you're set on going down the gear root.

Diet was rubbish this weekend I'm afraid. I was away for the weekend with the Mrs for her birthday. Back on top of things tomorrow and training again, I'll post tomorrow.


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## tiptop (May 22, 2007)

hi people, sorry 13stonetarget for writning on your started thread, im statring the same 14 on 14 off,

just a quick question for all of you, if i train in the evening, say 7/8ish, when would be the best time to take the tab. im being safe and wanna start 5 mg and see how it goes.


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## justdiscovering (May 10, 2007)

hey tip top the best time to take your d-bol is as early as possible to co-incide with you own natural testlevels,the earlier the better but il be taking mine around 6-6.30 in the morning.hope this helps.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

tiptop said:


> hi people, sorry 13stonetarget for writning on your started thread, im statring the same 14 on 14 off,
> 
> just a quick question for all of you, if i train in the evening, say 7/8ish, when would be the best time to take the tab. im being safe and wanna start 5 mg and see how it goes.


First thing AM to co-incide with your bodies natural production peaking..


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

As the others said. I took mine at 5.20am this morning when I woke up needing a ****. Then straight back to bed for another couple of hours kip


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Just trained, did back & legs:

Squats 50kg x 10 then 75kg x 20,20

Pullups 8,7,7

Deads 70kg x 8 then 100kg x 5,5

Barbell rows 60kg x 9,9

Barbell bicep curls 30kg x 7,7

I found the session hard work, I think I'm still tired from the weekend.

Food today has been okay:

1. Oats with cinammon & a little sugar + myprotein hard gainer shake

2. Apple, banana, pistachios

3. Tin of tuna on a huuuuge baked potato with mixed salad and a shed load of coleslaw

4. Tin of tuna, mixed salad in two slices of wholemeal

5. Apple, pistachios

6. myprotein PWO shake with flax seed

7. Chicken and mixed vegetables (in about 45 minutes)

8. myprotein bedtime shake (in a couple of hours)

Weight looked a little over 12stone this AM I think.


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## tiptop (May 22, 2007)

thankyou everyone, even if the half life is around 3-5 hours, will it be working properly after all those hours during training?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Just trained, did back & legs:
> 
> Squats 50kg x 10 then 75kg x 20,20
> 
> ...


Try not to weigh yourself everyday, just on day 1 and day 14 of your on period and day 14 of your off period. Weighing everyday will just drive you nuts in the long run and will show you very little gains daily...


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

so to recap.. in 3 cycles you have gained half a stone.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Try not to weigh yourself everyday, just on day 1 and day 14 of your on period and day 14 of your off period. Weighing everyday will just drive you nuts in the long run and will show you very little gains daily...


You're right 

I'm only weighing myself about once a week at the moment, I'm not massively fussed or stressing about it


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Slamdog said:


> so to recap.. in 3 cycles you have gained half a stone.


Hi Slamdog,

I started off at 11 stone 8lbs. I'm now about 12 stone 1lb.

I've done 1.5 cycles so far and have been taking 5mg dbol a day and doing 2 - 3 days training per week, some all body workouts, some splits.


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi Slamdog,
> 
> I started off at 11 stone 8lbs. I'm now about 12 stone 1lb.
> 
> I've done 1.5 cycles so far and have been taking 5mg dbol a day and doing 2 - 3 days training per week, some all body workouts, some splits.


Good results so far, still think you`ve another 7-10lbs more in you to gain before the dosage needs to be upped anymore...


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I'm very pleased with how things are going so far. I think I'm going to run another cycle at 5mg and then spend a few weeks "clean" and try to lose a little body fat before running another 5mg, I'd like to see my abs a bit more.

So I reckon finish this then do a 14/21 @ 5mg.


----------



## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

i thought you had been going for a few cycles rather than just 1.5.

all in all, good gains then.. looks like 13 st is on the cards a lot sooner than you imagined...


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> I'm very pleased with how things are going so far. I think I'm going to run another cycle at 5mg and then spend a few weeks "clean" and try to lose a little body fat before running another 5mg, I'd like to see my abs a bit more.
> 
> So I reckon finish this then do a 14/21 @ 5mg.


14x21 sounds good...

We can restructure your training etc so that you can try and still gain a pound or 2 each cycle whilst loosing some bodyfat..

Nearer the end of this cycle I`ll get some training ideas up for you to go over & see what you think...


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Slamdog: yes it is mate, I'm happy 

OSC: Sounds great, I'm off for chicken, brown rice, broccoli & cauliflower now


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## irwit (Mar 29, 2007)

Great thread, I think a big thanks to cookie on this one. Just a quick question to 13stone, how much weight did you put on in your time training before you started the gear and over how long a period ?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Yeah, big thanks to Cookie and also to Samurai69 for being the previous guinea pig of this plan!

Irwit, I was at about 10.5 stone when I started, similiar body fat to now and had put on the extra stone or so over a period of about 2 years.

I was basically a f**king rake... 

I could obviously have continued to put on weight naturally, but I made the decision to accelerate things a little.


----------



## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Its a pleasure to be able to help:beer1:


----------



## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

I'd be interested in progress pics if you have them..

so effectively your bf% has dropped as you have added muscle...


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Slamdog, maybe soon mate, would like to put a couple more lbs of muscle on and drop a couple of lbs of fat; that'll be the harder part I reckon!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

ONE SMART COOKIE said:


> Its a pleasure to be able to help:beer1:


You're a big help fella!


----------



## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh and for those interested, my diet was ok (not great)..... today:

1. Oats with cinamon (sp?), fruit & milk + protein shake

2. Apple, banana & pistachios

3. Chicken, rice, broccoli & cauliflower

4. Chicken, rice, broccoli & cauliflower

5. Prawn cocktail, steak & chips

It was my lady's mother's birthday so went out for a family meal this evening. Will the social events ever end!

Might train chest, shoulders etc tomorrow, possibly Thursday depending on how I feel.


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

13stonetarget said:


> Hey Slamdog, maybe soon mate, would like to put a couple more lbs of muscle on and drop a couple of lbs of fat; that'll be the harder part I reckon!


no probs mate....

and yep.. fat loss is a bitch.....

the 14/14 interests me greatly but until i get the fat loss thing right i'm holding back.


----------



## invisiblekid (Jun 18, 2006)

13stonetarget said:


> Oh and for those interested, my diet was ok (not great)..... today:
> 
> 1. Oats with cinamon (sp?), fruit & milk + protein shake
> 
> ...


That looks fine mate - bit naughty on the last meal but you gotta keep yourself sane. I had a home made burger and wedges last night. Cheats are essential to any diet IMO.

I've followed this thread with great interest and I'm very tempted to go down this route at some point.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Yeah, I'm not massively fussed about a few cheat meals, I'm the sort of build that needs the calories...  I try and keep it pretty clean and regular 4-5 days a week though. It's just the other couple that slip a bit.

I'm glad people are finding this thread interesting, I'm not really keeping it for my own records, I just thought others might find it useful in the same way as Samurai69's thread was to me.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

13stonetarget, you seem to focus quite a bit on just the weight gain, just wondered, have you got before measurments and fow are they changing

eg 1" of waist, or 1" on upper arm etc

would like tto see where changes are happening, as when i did mine there were definate fat loss areas and places that gained well


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey s69, I have, but I'm not 100% sure they're accurate. My Mrs did them for me at the beginning of my first cycle. I'll check measurements at the end of this cycle perhaps!


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

13stonetarget said:


> Hey s69, I have, but I'm not 100% sure they're accurate. My Mrs did them for me at the beginning of my first cycle. I'll check measurements at the end of this cycle perhaps!


that would be good


----------



## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

Tracking measurements should be right alongside your tracking your bodyweight buddy.

I was curious one day why i was at the same weight i started at, so i measured myself. Had gained size on chest/back and legs.

So if i was same weight but bigger measurements= lost fat gained muscle!


----------



## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

This thread has kicked off a bit over the last week!

Ended up going over to Paris for World Cup Final so diet went massively out of the window. Was a once in a life time opportunity...

Back to business - finished 2nd cycle (im on 10mg).

0.5kg weight gain (was 1.5 after 1st, but maintained it all).

Strength stayed same/ up slightly - very disapointed after adding 10kg to bench in 1st cycle. Real highlight is another 1/4 '' on arms, so 3/4 gain in total. All other mesurements pretty much the same...

So disapointing...

Also didnt note the same aggresion levels...

Ive been able to measure body fat % this time - (frustrated i couldnt do it at the start) - but similar to Sam69 says, i havent gained a lot of weight on it, but gained size in certain areas, and im sure i have lost BF but dont know how much...

Am going to do 3rd cycle and see what results i get...

Whilst i am happy to have made gains, i was hoping for slightly more from coming over to the dark side... even tho i know this is the slowly slowly make gains and keep them approach... feel i have made as good gains on Norateen products...


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## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

2nd cycle finished before Paris...

that was during current off cycle...


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Rono26 said:


> This thread has kicked off a bit over the last week!
> 
> Ended up going over to Paris for World Cup Final so diet went massively out of the window. Was a once in a life time opportunity...
> 
> ...


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

samurai69 said:


> 13stonetarget, you seem to focus quite a bit on just the weight gain, just wondered, have you got before measurments and fow are they changing
> 
> eg 1" of waist, or 1" on upper arm etc
> 
> would like tto see where changes are happening, as when i did mine there were definate fat loss areas and places that gained well


I've just done 3 quick measurements (the ones that are easy to do while clothed), on lower arm (just over 1cm larger), upper arm (just over 1cm larger), chest (just over 3cm larger).

So that's growth. Waist seems the same, which suggests that my bodyfat is similiar to the start of the program.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by Rono26
> 
> ...


*I have to agree with everything cookie said*


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Rono, doesn't sound like you're doing badly mate, gains are gains 

I haven't noticed any change in my mood when doing my sets, no more 'aggression', but I have been feeling maybe more confident I guess.

I did chest & shoulders today, just three exercises, flat bench, military press and incline DB press. Flat bench is up 5kg this week, which is good, the rest of the exercises stayed at the same weight, same reps as before, but I think the bench might've taken a bit out of my arms. I've also got a ****ty chest infection and not feeling 100% so I think I was tiring more quickly than usual.

I've got 3 more days on cycle, so I'm hoping to get another good hard session in over the weekend.


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## tiptop (May 22, 2007)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi Slamdog,
> 
> I started off at 11 stone 8lbs. I'm now about 12 stone 1lb.
> 
> I've done 1.5 cycles so far and have been taking 5mg dbol a day and doing 2 - 3 days training per week, some all body workouts, some splits.


another question people, i see 13stone target traing 2 3 days/week, and on 5 mg a day. is that enough training?

what i tend to do is train 6 days/week, but training is not that intense each day, average about 30-40 mins a day?

is that kind of training a waste or is it better 2-3days a week hard training?

also gonna start 5mg 14 on 14 off.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Tiptop: simple answer, yes, it's enough training. If you're training 6 days a week you're probably either over training or just simply wasting your time..

How long have you been training? What sort of weight training program do you use? What is your diet like? How much muscle mass have you put on since you started training?


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

this is a great thread, very informative  .

im assuming (sorry for being thick here!) that 14/14 means 14 days on and 14 days off, and after the 14th day off, you start the cycle again???

during the 'on' phase should you still keep taking the tabs if your unwell and cant make it to the gym, for example. i guess you wouldnt just stop taking them, but finish the cycle?

cheers.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Craig, glad it's useful mate, I was hoping that someone would find my personal experiences useful, helps people make decisions I guess.

I've had a chest infection for most of this cycle, I've been coughing crap up and been feeling rubbish, I've continued taking the dbol and just up'd my fluid intake etc. Everything else has stayed the same. I've not been doing any cardio though, I can't face it because I've been coughing too much.

Correct about 14 on 14 off though. If you like this thread, read the one started by Samurai69 on the same topic, there's loads of useful stuff in there from him, onesmartcookie & a few others.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

craig306 said:


> this is a great thread, very informative  .
> 
> im assuming (sorry for being thick here!) that 14/14 means 14 days on and 14 days off, and after the 14th day off, you start the cycle again???
> 
> ...


I was told that the benefit of doing these cycles is that the steroids used have short half lives and since you arent taking high dosages you get next to no sides and good recovery if you *need* to come off for some reason (if you have a bag reaction to the gear)

This is what I have been told at least.


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

what other supps can you take with dbol?

currently im cycling creatine, taking sida cordifolia, fish oils, and of course the protein shakes!

is it ok to continue to take all of these whilst on dbol?

(didnt mean to hijack the thread, just thought it may be useful info for other starters!)

must now get searching on google i guess!

cheers.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Craig, you can continue to use those products. I don't use creatine when I'm "on cycle". I use it during the 14 days off.

Before you start thinking this is a great idea though dude (the course of dbol I mean), seriously what's your training history, diet etc like?

Everyone else:

I've just done a workout, got an extra two reps out of deads this week, pushed my bent over rows up by 5kg and did an extra 5 reps each set on squats, too. Still feeling a bit knackered from being ill but feel good post workout endorphins too!

Diet has been mixed for the past couple of days, it was very good yesterday but today's been a little sporadic as it's two family birthdays and I've been all over the place.

I'm going to try and hit some decent cardio during the week this week to try and shift a little fat, assuming this chest infection gets off its ass and goes elsewhere. Tomorrow's the last day on the dbols so I'll be back on trib and creatine as of Monday.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Morning guys,

Off the dbols now for the next couple of weeks. Back on trib' and creatine.

Weight was 12 stone 1 -> 12 stone 2lbs this morning, so I think I'm up by 2-3lbs from the beginning of this cycle. Strength went up this cycle, too.

I'm going to be doing a little cutting over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to try and go for a 30-40 minute run each morning or do a light weights session before breakfast to burn a little fat. I'm hoping to cut a few pounds off over the next 2 weeks before hitting the dbols again.


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

13stonetarget said:


> Morning guys,
> 
> Off the dbols now for the next couple of weeks. Back on trib' and creatine.
> 
> ...


Good going bro, just went back to check your starting weight which was 11 stone 8lbs was it not? so you would have gained 6 -7lbs across the course of the 14 day cycle?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi Cap,

I started off at 11 stone 8lbs at the beginning of the first cycle. I've done two cycles now and I'm up to 12 stone 1->2lbs. So I'm up about 7lbs from two short cycles, not bad 

I'm hoping to drop a few lbs over the next couple of weeks then put another 2-3lbs on next cycle, so my lean mass should be up quite a bit, relatively speaking in another 4 weeks time


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## Captain Hero (Jun 13, 2004)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi Cap,
> 
> I started off at 11 stone 8lbs at the beginning of the first cycle. I've done two cycles now and I'm up to 12 stone 1->2lbs. So I'm up about 7lbs from two short cycles, not bad
> 
> I'm hoping to drop a few lbs over the next couple of weeks then put another 2-3lbs on next cycle, so my lean mass should be up quite a bit, relatively speaking in another 4 weeks time


Nice going!  are you planning on running it until you run out of dbol?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Yeah, why, do you want the left overs or something?!  :lol:

Yeah though, I'm going to continue til it's all gone and then assess whether I want to do anything more or just leave it. My goals are pretty simple, circa 13 stone of lean mass, circa 10% bodyfat and I'll be a happy chap.


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## Rono26 (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Fellas...

Thanks for the replys to my last post, they set me straight a bit. I was on a bit of a downer, think my hormones were all over the shop after big weekend drinking and eating cr*p! My body isnt used to hitting it so hard anymore! OSC you were spot on.

Im back on form now - and ready to tare up 2 more cycles before Christmas!

Cheers.

13st - how many cycles will you get out of your stash?! Are you not intending to have any small breaks? Im sure thats hat Sam69 did on the reccomendation of the Smart One!


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey Rono, it's an interesting point, I'll wait until Lord Cookie spreads the knowledge 

As for number of cycles left, I have enough for 4 more 5mg cycles, if I keep gaining a couple of pounds each 14 day cycle on 5mg ED, there's no big reason to up it at the moment.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Any of you got your blood work done whilst following this protocol?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

cwoody123 said:


> Any of you got your blood work done whilst following this protocol?


No, I haven't.

I hope this isn't going to turn into an attack on me and others because of my post on your thread...


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

lol... no not at all mate. Just was interested to see what other peoples results have been like as the theory of the 14x14 is very appealing just unfortunately did not work well for me. I would be very interested to see you hormone values thou mate if you do decide to get them done ;-)


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I'd consider getting them done if I weren't so skint.. The idea of walking into my doc's and asking for blood tests isn't great...

"Why?"

"Err, cos....... I feel....... Tired?"

:lol:


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

I think you can get them done in selected Needle exchanges...but i may be wrong


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Okay, thanks, I'll keep it in mind!

On this subject, during my first cycle I felt like I might've been shutdown a bit after my first cycle because I wasn't waking up with morning wood much! This time around has been different though, I've been fine after this cycle.


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## cwoody123 (Feb 13, 2007)

Hello mate,

The body does not necessarily need to have a full testosterone capacity to maintain sexual function, even thou my testosterone is low i still have morning erections and have continued to do so while my testosterone was only 10 mnol. This does not mean your testosterone is fully recovered but there is enough to continue sexual function.

But i may be wrong.


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## 7i7 (Sep 22, 2007)

IIRC test directly have minor effect on libido, its DHT that gets you in rabbit mode. So I guess if you have high 5ar enzyme levels you can keep good libido with very low test.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi guys,

Quick update for you. I've decided to change the plan slightly, I've been cutting for the past week since finishing my last cycle. I'm going to probably continue this process for another couple of weeks. I think I've dropped about 2-3lbs in the past week, most of which is fat, I'm sure a little is water, too. I'm hoping to lose another 2lbs a week for the next week or two, which should have my bodyfat quite low.

I'll keep you posted


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh, and Cookie, I've done 3 morning cardio sessions and 4 weights sessions in the past week, so I'm keeping the burn going


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

hi

any update on the cycle mate?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi Craig,

I've been doing a bit of dieting over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, work and having a chest infection (which doesn't seem to want to shift), has effected me being able to work as hard as I'd like. I reckon in another 2 weeks I'll be ready to go on another cycle. Hopefully!


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

13stonetarget said:


> Hi Craig,
> 
> I've been doing a bit of dieting over the past few weeks. Unfortunately, work and having a chest infection (which doesn't seem to want to shift), has effected me being able to work as hard as I'd like. I reckon in another 2 weeks I'll be ready to go on another cycle. Hopefully!


Get yourself down to Boots and get some echinaboost, use about 8 aday (they recommend 6) and you`ll be good to go in a few days...


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2007)

i use the liquid form of echina. tastes like **** in water but does the job for me as i get colds and coughs quite a bit


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Cheers for the tip guys, I'll pick something up. I'm feeling much better today, I reckon another day and I'll be back on it.


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

r u still cycling?

not heard anything in a while.

thinking of doing something similar to you - a low dosage.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi Craig, no not at the moment, I've been working my ass of recently and trying to cut a bit. It's not been very successful as I've been doing 13 hour days and what with the dog, the girlfriend etc life's very busy and I've not had time to train and eat properly. I'm hoping this will all be back to normal in the next few weeks so I can get back on it properly.


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

did you take any nolva ? you alluded to getting some-i feel like doing a 14x14 after the new year, bit paranoid of sides with dbol,but like the supplement type approach


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2007)

if i was to try a 14x14 with tbol how would it look? day 1-14: 10mg tbol ed, through in some milk thistle and hawthorne and ala here and there, then day 15-28: off or creatine...?


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## NeilpWest (Aug 19, 2007)

dom1986 said:


> if i was to try a 14x14 with tbol how would it look? day 1-14: 10mg tbol ed, through in some milk thistle and hawthorne and ala here and there, then day 15-28: off or creatine...?


10mg tbol wont do any thing as far as i know it needs to be a much higher dose than dbol your better of running a straight 6week cycle at about 60-80mg aday


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

NeilpWest said:


> 10mg tbol wont do any thing as far as i know it needs to be a much higher dose than dbol your better of running a straight 6week cycle at about 60-80mg aday


and everyone said 5mg of d-bol wouldnt do anything

i think a 14x14 of low dose t-bol would work, 10mg a day should do it .....chart it well if after 2 cycle its not showing anything, up the dose by 5mg

IMHO


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2007)

what do you do during the 14 days off? ie cr, trib, etc?


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

so if u take 5mg of dbol a day there is no need for pct?


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## Slamdog (Jun 11, 2007)

there is a chance you may need pct drugs but it seems not to be the case with all those that i've read about on here. it is wise to have nolva on hand just in case....


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

i have been experimenting with Tbol. the first two cycles of 14 days went well. i was not eating much, trying to loose fat, had lost a few lbs the previous few weeks then put on 1lbs each week i was on Tbol, but, looked like i had lost fat. My g/f went away for a few days and noticed a difference. The last cycle i done. I didnt notice much in strength gains (i did first time or two around) but then m y training & diet wasn't the best, and i noticed that i could not think straight. In those two weeks i made a few mistakes at work. I'm not 100% sure up to now if it was related or not.

I had a good beer over one weekend. then was ill on the monday, i think a problem with my digestion caused it. I have suffered with gout. although its mostly gone now and i have not taken any anti inflamatory drugs for a few days, i do have to take one every so often and i think they cause my digestion to get a bit screwed.

I was on clen for the two weeks off. this time im not doing any clean. giving my boday a break. I might even leave the Tbol until after xmas now.


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## samurai691436114498 (Jan 6, 2005)

fits said:


> i have been experimenting with Tbol. the first two cycles of 14 days went well. i was not eating much, trying to loose fat, had lost a few lbs the previous few weeks then put on 1lbs each week i was on Tbol, but, looked like i had lost fat. My g/f went away for a few days and noticed a difference. The last cycle i done. I didnt notice much in strength gains (i did first time or two around) but then m y training & diet wasn't the best, and i noticed that i could not think straight. In those two weeks i made a few mistakes at work. I'm not 100% sure up to now if it was related or not.
> 
> I had a good beer over one weekend. then was ill on the monday, i think a problem with my digestion caused it. I have suffered with gout. although its mostly gone now and i have not taken any anti inflamatory drugs for a few days, i do have to take one every so often and i think they cause my digestion to get a bit screwed.
> 
> I was on clen for the two weeks off. this time im not doing any clean. giving my boday a break. I might even leave the Tbol until after xmas now.


best to leave it if your out partying and boozing


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

i wasn't really, just happend that i was asked to go over to my brothers for the weekend with my nephew so i di, it was the last two days of the cycle so i thought....sod it..... turned out not to be a good idea


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

hi 13stonetarget

are you still cycling dbol? i am very interested in the 14 on 21 off cycle that OSC advises. ive been training for a while and am making steady gains, but need a boost!

please PM me with some info.

thanks.


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

craig306 said:


> hi 13stonetarget
> 
> are you still cycling dbol? i am very interested in the 14 on 21 off cycle that OSC advises. ive been training for a while and am making steady gains, but need a boost!
> 
> ...


Hey Craig,

I'm going to do another cycle soon when I get back from snowboarding at the beginning of January. I'll be doing my regular diary type stuff again in case anyone is interested. If you have specific questions, feel free to either ask them here or PM me. I will answer what I can, but by posting here you get the opportunity to allow others who are certainly more knowledgable than me to respond also.

Thanks


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

thanks for the reply.

unfortunately i cannot PM you until my post count reaches 50!

just need some further info.


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

Didn't want to start another thread as its just one quick question :rolleye11

I know the chances of needing usual pct on this method is slim but its better to have it to hand just in case. So whats the ideal scenario of taking nolva? The usual method of 3 weeks?

Cheers


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## craig306 (May 10, 2006)

You havent seen my 'new' thread then, posted a few days ago!


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

I just read this thread from the start instead of jumping in here and there.

In the early part Cookie mentioned he had 2 guys doing the 2 day full body routine that were gaining well. I gained well then went off track briefly. Got back into being consistant with diet training and rest, and grew like a weed on that routine using 20RP squats on workout A and 20RP deads on workout B.

I only changed the bi's and tri's work to modify the routine due to my body adapting and me wanting bigger movements. I changed them to chins and dips instead.

In 7 weeks i increased

Waist +1"

Chest/back +2"

Bi's/tri's +1"

Quads/hams +1.75"

Calves +1"

Bodyweight +9.5lbs

I changed due to needing to switch training after i began to go mentally stale. I was still gaining but struggled to mentally put the proper focus into it. Doing the rest pause work takes a hardcore mindset and it just wore me down eventually. I was squatting 105kg for 20 rest pause at the end which is 1.5 times my bodyweight at 70kg.

I've got some magic beans coming to me very soon so will be on with the either the 14x14 or 14x21 in a few weeks i reckon.

Switched my training to rippetoe starting strength now but will definately use the rest pause full body routine again one day


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

if you added an inch to your waist haven't you just gained fat?


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## Lux (Mar 23, 2006)

fits said:


> if you added an inch to your waist haven't you just gained fat?


I'm sure i gained fat in that short a period of time mate. Doubt very much if it was all fat tho. Some of it was bouncing back to a weight i was at over a year ago.

Just found myself using the starting level of cals for bulking that i would normally use, but my metabolism had changed so was gaining on less than before.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

cool, keep up the good work and keep us updated mate :beer1:


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

I've had to delay my next cycle a little, I hyperextended my left elbow on a snowboarding trip so I need to give it a few weeks to recover, at least.

Arm bar anyone?! :lol:


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## kevvyb2008 (Jan 23, 2008)

Er..t happened to this..i was following this carefully..anyone?


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## 13stonetarget (Aug 21, 2007)

Umm, like I said above dude, I hyper-extended my left elbow. At the moment I can't straighten it properly, hence I can't train. I'm hoping in another couple of weeks I will be able to do some light weights on it and build up.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

kevvyb2008 said:


> Er..t happened to this..i was following this carefully..anyone?


EH, sure your subscribed to the right thread, you wern't even a memeber in august.:focus:


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## kevvyb2008 (Jan 23, 2008)

yer..defo in the right thread..only just joined as i was thinkin of doin something similar to 13stone..just wanted to read up on it first so i wasnt goin in to it blind..hence the interest!!


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## kevvyb2008 (Jan 23, 2008)

13stonetarget said:


> Umm, like I said above dude, I hyper-extended my left elbow. At the moment I can't straighten it properly, hence I can't train. I'm hoping in another couple of weeks I will be able to do some light weights on it and build up.


Ok fella..will be keeping an eye out...cheers


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## lerber (Oct 1, 2008)

hi all my ist thread on here, so bare wit me, ive been taking d bol for a month now and have about a month left im up to 50 mg a day. wot id like some advice on is . ive been told that i should do a short course of winstrol at the last 4 weeks of my d bol course to cut up is this advisable, as i know d bol is high on your liver as well as winstrol would i need a short break between the 2 ive been taking the reccomended milk thistle and good diet all answers aprieceted


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

Hmmm i've read sam's thread and noticed this 1 as well, seems like the 14days on and 21 off seems to be a decent idea for a first cycle. Also its all oral if im correct? And Nolva for Pct?

Hmm Can this work whilst cutting? I noticed Sam said about it earlyier in the thread?

When to take nolva? How much ? So on xD.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

squalllion1uk said:


> Hmmm i've read sam's thread and noticed this 1 as well, seems like the 14days on and 21 off seems to be a decent idea for a first cycle. Also its all oral if im correct? And Nolva for Pct?
> 
> Hmm Can this work whilst cutting? I noticed Sam said about it earlyier in the thread?
> 
> When to take nolva? How much ? So on xD.


 I THINK the Nolva was only incase signs of Gyno cropped up..... not 100% though.

it was indeed all oral. Sam used 5mg, 10mg 15mg and i think he went up to 20mg of Dbol. The average seemed to be 10mg i think. All seemed well. Sam gained about a stone in lean weight and seemed to keep it even after he stopped.

It is an interesting way of taking AAS and It would be great to seem more people try it as we are all different.

are you concidering it?


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

Yea im considering it , Seems "easy" compared to injecting and doing a 6 week cycle , it looks like a good start for someone trying there first cycle.

If i started it i would probably start off a 5mg , from what i seen from sam's it seem'd starting at the lower dose and working up after each cycle he got the most bang for his buck.

Also not sure who it was but i remember seeing someone saying even though you only do it for 14 days there is still some shut down? Think it may have been hacks?

Hmm if this sort of thing can be done with Dbol then can it be done with others? its a interesting concept. I also noticed sam saying he was losing bf as well . I would still rather do some pct during either the 14 or 21 days off as a "just in case" . I would stick with my own routine which even though im cutting i still managed to get gains on  .

Im planning on getting my weight down to 14 stone by christmas which should be a good level to start bulking (10lbs to lose).

Yea we are all different sam didnt seem to be getting any major side effects which is nice to see, the fact he was getting good gains for such a low dose .

As someone else stated though less time on a cycle means less gains and less risk but longer = more gains + more risk. So looks a viable option for a first cycle untill i manage to gain the courage to start pinning.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

There was a massive arguement abotu shut down lol Lots of people arguing different point in the end. I think 'supression' is more likely than 'shut down' although I am only going on what I have read.

If your still in losoing weight phase why dont you get to 14stone, then spend a good year or so adding weight slowly with a strict diet before using AAS.

i'm not sure what PCT you would need for this protocol. But if your goin gto use PCT any way, why not try a small cycle of 10 or 20mg of dbol per say like some one on here done recently? I think a bit factor of the 14x14 was that you would/could/should not need PCT. From what I have read Sides from clomid for example can be pretty bad. Each to their own, but what ever you decide, put up a journal on here. :beer:


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## squalllion1uk (Mar 27, 2008)

To be honest at the same time I want to try my hand at doing a cycle nothing long term, then again at that I wouldn't be to bothered about doing a 6 week cycle with Dbol.

Though I am open to all advice on it but I would like to try my hand at a cycle at some point after Christmas, try and see what works for me in that sense , see how it effects me xD bit of trial and error.


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## fits (Feb 3, 2004)

WEll what ever you decide to do mate, keep a log on here, let us see how it goes  :thumbup1:


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## fitfunk (Oct 31, 2009)

A great thread this and the others too from Sam69 etc.

I'm starting a 14/14 cycle of dbol on Monday to give it a go. Will start knew thread.


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