# Why all the negativity towards steady state cardio within the bodybuilding community?



## JayJay031 (Sep 6, 2013)

In the short period of time I have been weight lifting I have realized that there is a lot of ignorance with the average gym goer. There seems to be a lot of negativity towards steady state cardio among the bodybuilding world. I read and hear it nearly everywhere and it doesn't make sense. I was told once to stay away from steady state because it burns muscle and that hiit training is much more suited for people wanting to build mass but on the flip side I heard someone say you can do as much cardio as you want but if your diets not right your not losing weight. Sooo if its your diet that controls your weight then why would long distance cardio effect muscle gains if you just use common sense by putting 2 and 2 together and consuming more calories to make up for the calories lost? Doesn't it have to go through your fats and carbs before getting to protein? I have this friend who's quite knowledgeable and we always have discussions about training. I asked him if he did any cardio and he turned around and said "nah man I don't wana lose my gainz". Which I didn't care to much about because its his body but I got annoyed when he told me I was doing it all wrong by with all that cardio. He kept coming back to what this personal trainer told him and I turned around and said a personal trainer can motivate you and give you the basics but something that works for him may not work for me because of a simple thing called genetics! Some people may say genetics doesn't make a difference but for those people I will give you an example. I have friend who eats a lot of crap and will sit around on his ass all day doing nothing for months and still stay at around 8% bf! His only complaint will be "man! I haven't been gym in months and I am getting skinny" which makes no sense to me because if I did that I would blow up like a pig. I would train for months whilst he sits around but somehow he can take his top off and have this shredded lean look going on. He doesn't even have to go through that cutting bulking process! His metabolism is so high that all he needs to do is bulk all year round. Don't get me wrong I am bigger then him but a lot of my muscles are hidden behind a little fat so I make sure I run and sometimes I would even lose 1000 calories per run because I love my food and cant stand to be consuming only 2000 calories a day. I would rather burn 1000 just to add that extra food!

And for those of you talking about hiit training if you have enough energy to be doing hiit training on the same day as your strength training then your obviously not hitting the weights hard enough and need to get your priorities right unless your looking to become a sprinter. Also that has to be hard on your CNS! I hate that excuse I hear all the time about "look at marathon runner and now look at sprinter" haha its so ignorant because the best long distances runners are naturally skinny and have to stay skinny to be on top of there game where as sprinters incorporate weight lifting into there routines and have to be powerful and are also naturally bigger. I think that people think long distance running is so long and boring that there willing to throw anything out there in order to not do it so when they hear or read negativity about it they almost subconsciously make themselves believe that its not good for gains which in return makes them feel better about not doing it. Kind of like if I hate a piece of food that people are arguing with me about regarding its health benefits I will be quick to throw negative comments about it without taking time out and actually doing research on my own body just to make myself feel better about not eating it. Me personally I love running. It makes me feel good, helps with weight loss, helps with recovery and I don't want to be one of those big dudes that are big for nothing and normal life situations like making love to your women or running and playing with your kids becomes a task because your just big and stiff. So yeah would like to know how some of you more experienced guys feel about steady state cardio and any advice will be much appreciated.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Why all the negativity towards paragraphs?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Didn't read the wall of text but LISS is fine HIIT is fine.

The best form of cardio is the one you enjoy.

I personally prefer sport.


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Because it does nothing for you, more than warming the body and spending a tiny, negligible amount of calories but it also makes you a lazy person and waste a valuable time.

Whatever is your personal definition of health, it comes from proper cardio, period.

People doing steady cardio are hiding their laziness behind a "logical" self made reason on why it is good but is not, it won't make you lean, it won't improve your cardiovascular health, it won't improve you muscle recovery and it won't spend a considerable amount of calories, it won't do anything.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

JayJay031 said:


> In the short period of time I have been weight lifting I have realized that there is a lot of ignorance with the average gym goer. There seems to be a lot of negativity towards steady state cardio among the bodybuilding world. I read and hear it nearly everywhere and it doesn't make sense. I was told once to stay away from steady state because it burns muscle and that hiit training is much more suited for people wanting to build mass but on the flip side I heard someone say you can do as much cardio as you want but if your diets not right your not losing weight. Sooo if its your diet that controls your weight then why would long distance cardio effect muscle gains if you just use common sense by putting 2 and 2 together and consuming more calories to make up for the calories lost? Doesn't it have to go through your fats and carbs before getting to protein? I have this friend who's quite knowledgeable and we always have discussions about training. I asked him if he did any cardio and he turned around and said "nah man I don't wana lose my gainz". Which I didn't care to much about because its his body but I got annoyed when he told me I was doing it all wrong by with all that cardio. He kept coming back to what this personal trainer told him and I turned around and said a personal trainer can motivate you and give you the basics but something that works for him may not work for me because of a simple thing called genetics! Some people may say genetics doesn't make a difference but for those people I will give you an example. I have friend who eats a lot of crap and will sit around on his ass all day doing nothing for months and still stay at around 8% bf! His only complaint will be "man! I haven't been gym in months and I am getting skinny" which makes no sense to me because if I did that I would blow up like a pig. I would train for months whilst he sits around but somehow he can take his top off and have this shredded lean look going on. He doesn't even have to go through that cutting bulking process! His metabolism is so high that all he needs to do is bulk all year round. Don't get me wrong I am bigger then him but a lot of my muscles are hidden behind a little fat so I make sure I run and sometimes I would even lose 1000 calories per run because I love my food and cant stand to be consuming only 2000 calories a day. I would rather burn 1000 just to add that extra food!
> 
> And for those of you talking about hiit training if you have enough energy to be doing hiit training on the same day as your strength training then your obviously not hitting the weights hard enough and need to get your priorities right unless your looking to become a sprinter. Also that has to be hard on your CNS! I hate that excuse I hear all the time about "look at marathon runner and now look at sprinter" haha its so ignorant because the best long distances runners are naturally skinny and have to stay skinny to be on top of there game where as sprinters incorporate weight lifting into there routines and have to be powerful and are also naturally bigger. I think that people think long distance running is so long and boring that there willing to throw anything out there in order to not do it so when they hear or read negativity about it they almost subconsciously make themselves believe that its not good for gains which in return makes them feel better about not doing it. Kind of like if I hate a piece of food that people are arguing with me about regarding its health benefits I will be quick to throw negative comments about it without taking time out and actually doing research on my own body just to make myself feel better about not eating it. Me personally I love running. It makes me feel good, helps with weight loss, helps with recovery and I don't want to be one of those big dudes that are big for nothing and normal life situations like making love to your women or running and playing with your kids becomes a task because your just big and stiff. So yeah would like to know how some of you more experienced guys feel about steady state cardio and any advice will be much appreciated.


Tl:dr

There was a very good BBC documentary that showed how inefficient steady state cardio was compared to HIIT - good enough for me.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

simonthepieman said:


> Why all the negativity towards paragraphs?


Haha

Big blurry mess, didn't read it.


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

If anyone reads all of that I'll rep them..


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

I only ever do steady state cardio.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

saxondale said:


> Tl:dr
> 
> There was a very good BBC documentary that showed how inefficient steady state cardio was compared to HIIT - good enough for me.


Most competing BBs use SSCV. These are the leanest people on the planet.


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

Suprakill4 said:


> I only ever do steady state cardio.


Well your a lazy ****er in big man 123 eyes!!!


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## Matthew5 (Mar 17, 2011)

JayJay031 said:


> And for those of you talking about hiit training if you have enough energy to be doing hiit training on the same day as your strength training then your obviously not hitting the weights hard enough and need to get your priorities right unless your looking to become a sprinter.


Hahaha :lol: give it a rest mate!


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## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

JayJay031 said:


> In the short period of time I have been weight lifting I have realized that there is a lot of ignorance with the average gym goer. There seems to be a lot of negativity towards steady state cardio among the bodybuilding world. I read and hear it nearly everywhere and it doesn't make sense. I was told once to stay away from steady state because it burns muscle and that hiit training is much more suited for people wanting to build mass but on the flip side I heard someone say you can do as much cardio as you want but if your diets not right your not losing weight. Sooo if its your diet that controls your weight then why would long distance cardio effect muscle gains if you just use common sense by putting 2 and 2 together and consuming more calories to make up for the calories lost? Doesn't it have to go through your fats and carbs before getting to protein? I have this friend who's quite knowledgeable and we always have discussions about training. I asked him if he did any cardio and he turned around and said "nah man I don't wana lose my gainz". Which I didn't care to much about because its his body but I got annoyed when he told me I was doing it all wrong by with all that cardio. He kept coming back to what this personal trainer told him and I turned around and said a personal trainer can motivate you and give you the basics but something that works for him may not work for me because of a simple thing called genetics! Some people may say genetics doesn't make a difference but for those people I will give you an example. I have friend who eats a lot of crap and will sit around on his ass all day doing nothing for months and still stay at around 8% bf! His only complaint will be "man! I haven't been gym in months and I am getting skinny" which makes no sense to me because if I did that I would blow up like a pig. I would train for months whilst he sits around but somehow he can take his top off and have this shredded lean look going on. He doesn't even have to go through that cutting bulking process! His metabolism is so high that all he needs to do is bulk all year round. Don't get me wrong I am bigger then him but a lot of my muscles are hidden behind a little fat so I make sure I run and sometimes I would even lose 1000 calories per run because I love my food and cant stand to be consuming only 2000 calories a day. I would rather burn 1000 just to add that extra food!
> 
> And for those of you talking about hiit training if you have enough energy to be doing hiit training on the same day as your strength training then your obviously not hitting the weights hard enough and need to get your priorities right unless your looking to become a sprinter. Also that has to be hard on your CNS! I hate that excuse I hear all the time about "look at marathon runner and now look at sprinter" haha its so ignorant because the best long distances runners are naturally skinny and have to stay skinny to be on top of there game where as sprinters incorporate weight lifting into there routines and have to be powerful and are also naturally bigger. I think that people think long distance running is so long and boring that there willing to throw anything out there in order to not do it so when they hear or read negativity about it they almost subconsciously make themselves believe that its not good for gains which in return makes them feel better about not doing it. Kind of like if I hate a piece of food that people are arguing with me about regarding its health benefits I will be quick to throw negative comments about it without taking time out and actually doing research on my own body just to make myself feel better about not eating it. Me personally I love running. It makes me feel good, helps with weight loss, helps with recovery and I don't want to be one of those big dudes that are big for nothing and normal life situations like making love to your women or running and playing with your kids becomes a task because your just big and stiff. So yeah would like to know how some of you more experienced guys feel about steady state cardio and any advice will be much appreciated.


No problem at all with steady state cardio. it clearly works as people have been running/jogging etc for years to burn extra calories. Most on here prefer hiit because studies show blah blah blah....

Just do what you like mate :thumb:


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

as said above what ever u prefer , but i would rather do HIIT for 20 mins then stand on a treadmill at the same pace for 45mins


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## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

As has been said both are perfectly fine and depends on what your goals are i have done hiit but now do steady state uphill walking and have been for a while with good results.

As has also been said most competeing bodybuilders do steady state as i believe it raises there metabolic rate without burning muscle at the same time.

as to @Big Man 123 s post what a crock of 5hit worst post iv seen in a while and iv seen a few


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

Dagman72 said:


> Well your a lazy ****er in big man 123 eyes!!!


Oh well fcuk me. Might aswel quit now then.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

Reached stage condition doing LISS cardio,good eough for me,much rather preserve energy for hitting weights hard.Generally debates like this you notice those with the biggest opinions/attitudes have no avi.

Agree with @simonthepieman thought,best cardio is what you enjoy and also what fits in with your lifestyle.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> Because it does nothing for you, more than warming the body and spending a tiny, negligible amount of calories but it also makes you a lazy person and waste a valuable time.
> 
> Whatever is your personal definition of health, it comes from proper cardio, period.
> 
> People doing steady cardio are hiding their laziness behind a "logical" self made reason on why it is good but is not, it won't make you lean, it won't improve your cardiovascular health, it won't improve you muscle recovery and it won't spend a considerable amount of calories, it won't do anything.


What a load of $hite. Tell that to all the BB's in the world. Leanest people on the planet haha.


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## mattyhunt (Dec 12, 2013)

Was reading an article about cardio the other day, can't remember where it was but it mentioned that the golden era BBers used to do steady state cardio and BBers still continue to do so. Obviously it's worked for them.

I like to mix it up, few days a week fasted LISS and a couple of HIIT sessions, it's getting me closer to where I want to be


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

What's cardio?


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

tl;dr

When you're on cycle I don't think you need to worry about it as much as the risk of muscle lose is reduced. Naturals have to be more careful with cardio and have a balance of LISS/HIIT and try to avoid doing weights and LISS cardio one after the other when at low bf levels.


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## gripa (Mar 12, 2012)

My avi was using steady state cardio, diet and weights, nothing more strenuous than walking for cardio, why put your body under excess stress?


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2014)

Steady state all the way for me, better for muscle preservation also.


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Likewise, I'd rather use the energy for hitting the weights hard.

The cardio is there purely to get leaner, just throw on a film and switch off.


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## JayJay031 (Sep 6, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> Why all the negativity towards paragraphs?


yeah sorry i was rushing this thread this morning before work....


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## JayJay031 (Sep 6, 2013)

Big ape said:


> as said above what ever u prefer , but i would rather do HIIT for 20 mins then stand on a treadmill at the same pace for 45mins


The only thing about HIIT training is you can't do it everyday unlike steady state. With steady state I can stay consistent and it helps my body recover after every weight session. And for those of you saying steady state doesn't burn calories I am not sure what type of cardio you do but I can burn 800 plus calories in less then 45 minutes.


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## JayJay031 (Sep 6, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> Because it does nothing for you, more than warming the body and spending a tiny, negligible amount of calories but it also makes you a lazy person and waste a valuable time.
> 
> Whatever is your personal definition of health, it comes from proper cardio, period.
> 
> People doing steady cardio are hiding their laziness behind a "logical" self made reason on why it is good but is not, it won't make you lean, it won't improve your cardiovascular health, it won't improve you muscle recovery and it won't spend a considerable amount of calories, it won't do anything.


Everything you just said in your reply, is this from personal experience? Like did you take several months out of your time to actually research this on yourself or is it mostly from reading articles or what someone else has told you in the past? I am just interested in some of your points especially the lazy one...


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## Contest (Oct 4, 2011)

I think when people say steady state cardio is sh1t, they're forgetting that we're weight training anywhere from 3-6 days a week also.

In my opinion for the average chubby guy who doesn't workout, HIIT would yield better results but for someone competing and bodybuilding, why waste extra energy on HIIT?

I workout 6x a week (weights) and have done HIIT and LISS. Haven't noticed any difference in body composition from the two but I can tell you that after about 3-4 weeks, my body feels absolutely destroyed due to HIIT which then has a carry over effect to my weight training sessions.


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## Mclovin147 (Nov 11, 2013)

Anything that gets the heart pumping faster burns calories end of story.

So I guess it's just a matter of personal preference.

Why run anyway....Clen.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Big Man 123 said:


> Because it does nothing for you, more than warming the body and spending a tiny, negligible amount of calories but it also makes you a lazy person and waste a valuable time.
> 
> Whatever is your personal definition of health, it comes from proper cardio, period.
> 
> People doing steady cardio are hiding their laziness behind a "logical" self made reason on why it is good but is not, it won't make you lean, it won't improve your cardiovascular health, it won't improve you muscle recovery and it won't spend a considerable amount of calories, it won't do anything.


i have a 10mile race coming up and am jogging 4 times a week. on sunday i will be doing a 10mile cross country on the north york moors in a thunder storm probably :sad:. i dont think that makes me lazy when it would be so much easier to go do some hit in the gym, but that will not improve my fitness to the level i need it to be. only hard work and long distances will do that :thumbup1:


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

Never heard anyone bad mouthing steady state cardio. People who are saying it does nothing obviously haven't tried it stacked with a clean diet.

My body fat drops significantly when I introduce fasted steady state cardio at 130bpm.

Only when I'm cutting to get mega low or in mega quick time do I ever do intervals/sprints


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## Scott9585 (Oct 4, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> Because it does nothing for you, more than warming the body and spending a tiny, negligible amount of calories but it also makes you a lazy person and waste a valuable time.
> 
> Whatever is your personal definition of health, it comes from proper cardio, period.
> 
> People doing steady cardio are hiding their laziness behind a "logical" self made reason on why it is good but is not, it won't make you lean, it won't improve your cardiovascular health, it won't improve you muscle recovery and it won't spend a considerable amount of calories, it won't do anything.


notsureifsrs


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Big Man 123 said:


> Because it does nothing for you, more than warming the body and spending a tiny, negligible amount of calories but it also makes you a lazy person and waste a valuable time.
> 
> Whatever is your personal definition of health, it comes from proper cardio, period.
> 
> People doing steady cardio are hiding their laziness behind a "logical" self made reason on why it is good but is not, it won't make you lean, it won't improve your cardiovascular health, it won't improve you muscle recovery and it won't spend a considerable amount of calories, it won't do anything.


Are you joking lad?!

I compete and only do slow cardio on the stepper and waling on an incline when prepping for a show

Personally i find i can do it for longer thus burning more calories than doing 20 mins HIT

Im far far far from lazy... currently up at 5:50am every morning to do 40 mins cardio and then in the gym again at night to do weights

so all in all your an idiot


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

I have read some crap before but some stuff being spouted in here is fantastic! I did steady state throughout my prep purely cus calories were so low on carb cycling low days I would have burned away muscle any other way, how can someone say 20mins twice a day of LISS is the same as doing nothing is beyond me. you must be bellends


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

cardio is a waste of time,if I wanted to look fit I would have taken up surfing.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Nothing wrong with LISS. Whether or not it's as effective as HIIT is a moot point, but look at the big picture - cardio is used in conjunction with a caloric deficit and weight training, in order to burn a few extra calories. Indeed, a lot of bodybuilders cut just fine doing no cardio work whatsoever. So if someone wants to burn some extra calories without taxing themselves much, LISS is a great option.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

The main reason there is hate towards SS cardio is simply the fashion of the time - HIIT is the cool thing, SS is the old fashioned thing.

Both have a place IMO and, for a variety of possible reasons, either mode of exercise may be more suited to one person more than the other.

There is no absolute that says one form of cardio is better for fat loss than the other in all people in all conditions.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

In the documentary the science showed it took an hours effort burn the same amount of energy as the guy gained from one single banana!


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

dtlv said:


> The main reason there is hate towards SS cardio is simply the fashion of the time - HIIT is the cool thing, SS is the old fashioned thing.
> 
> Both have a place IMO and, for a variety of possible reasons, either mode of exercise may be more suited to one person more than the other.
> 
> There is no absolute that says one form of cardio is better for fat loss than the other in all people in all conditions.


The science bit

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ_BGhA7SK8


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## Dh2909 (Aug 9, 2011)

Like Lyle Mcdonald said - Old school bodybuilders got in contest shape doing only steady state cardio before HIIT came along, so to say its useless or counter productive is just nonsense. He uses a combination of HIIT and LISS in his stubborn Fat Protocol and makes good points as to why and how both work.

Such as HIIT is very good at releasing Fat from fat cell followed by steady state will prevent Fat from re-entering fat cells and prioritize it for use as fuel


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

Pretty sure a lot of pros just walk..... Did steady state myself an lost near 20kg. Whatever suits you I guess


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

UkWardy said:


> If anyone reads all of that I'll rep them..


Done, wheres my reps?? ;-)


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

golfgttdi said:


> Done, wheres my reps?? ;-)


Negged, lol jk :lol:


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## golfgttdi (Oct 6, 2010)

Ok this will prob **** off the steady state brigade, but here goes.

The problem with different 'types' of exercise weather its crossfit, hit lifting, hiit cardio, sprinting or long distance endurance, is that when someone enjoys doing it, it kind of becomes 'their' method.

So whenever someone attacks it or even mildly voices a dislike towards it, its almost like they are defending a close friend lol

Some of the comments above were asking 'is this just your belief or did you spend months testing different methods and results' etc

Well the bottom line is that science is proving over and over again that steady state cardio (when taken past 30ish mins of course) is actually doing more harm than good.

(And ive provided an article below linking all the studies.)

Again the problem lieas with people defending 'their' method like its their sole mission.

If you like slogging it out for 60mins 4/5 times a week then who cares, if your enjoying it thats all that matters.

Its when everyone starts saying things like old school bb'ers did steady state so they cant be wrong.

They werent 'wrong' it did help them get lean.

Are there much more efficient ways to do it? yes. HIIT,

Are there safer ways to do it? yes HIIT.

Does this mean everyone should abandon steady state? **** no. if you enjoy it and your happy with your results then fill your boots.

I eat clean and train hard and am somewhat happy with my results. I know if i cut ALL treats and minor discrepancies then id be even better off, But ****ed if im gonna do that, because what i do is enough for me.

Yes im not doing it the 'best' or most efficient way, But its something i can stick to so ill keep doing it.

Bit of a rant i guess lol

Heres the article:

http://www.t-nation.com/training/cardio-kills


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## SK50 (Apr 7, 2013)

Steady state for me. Walking slowly on incline treadmill.

I generally don't do cardio but sometimes do it a few weeks per year before holidays


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## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

Stepper and slow incline walk & sat on bike at home with playing fifa :lol: Much prefer steady state, especially after you've done a taxing weights session.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Steady state cardio is muscle wasting due to the increased cortisol which down regulates protein synthesis and fat metabolism. However HIIT is very stressful and must be treated the same as weight training IMO so it depends on the person.

A natural bodybuilder would be much better off reducing the cortisol produced from cardio so HIIT may be the butter option. However if your enhanced then just do what pleases you In all honesty. Also for the strength athlete who's primary concern isn't body composition then steady state also serves a purpose due to low impact.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Has anybody bothered to watch the video yet?


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## chronyx (Aug 22, 2010)

I *enjoy *lifting weights.

I *enjoy *running 4.5, or 9 miles with a friend depending on what mood we're in.

I *enjoy *hill sprints to the point where I'm walking like Bambi.

I *enjoy *foot ball (Bit of both)

Isn't that the main consideration?


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

Two examples.

Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.

Sprinter - built like a tank, HIIT type training.


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## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

Only ever do LISS cardio.

Works for me. If it ain't broke.....


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Dezw said:


> Two examples.
> 
> Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.
> 
> Sprinter - built like a tank, HIIT type training.


Not what the science says though.


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## Danjal (Aug 4, 2009)

Dezw said:


> Two examples.
> 
> Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.
> 
> Sprinter - built like a tank, HIIT type training.


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Dezw said:


> Two examples.
> 
> Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.
> 
> Sprinter - built like a tank, HIIT type training.


Read this in an article a few years back - "look at the middle of the pack amateur marathon runners, the plodders, all slightly over weight like they sit at a desk all day


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

All in all marathon runners train for hours and hours running mile after mile all week

Me doing 30 mins to an hour on the stepper is no where near what they are doing

Yes there is science in what your saying but doing cardio while cutting isnt like what your refering too and is only conducted for X amount of months a year, unlike the runners that are at it all year


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

golfgttdi said:


> Ok this will prob **** off the steady state brigade, but here goes.
> 
> The problem with different 'types' of exercise weather its crossfit, hit lifting, hiit cardio, sprinting or long distance endurance, is that when someone enjoys doing it, it kind of becomes 'their' method.
> 
> ...


^^^New school bodybuilders use this method too, guess they haven't read your article.

What you missed out from the article is workout intensity, which while working out at 40% intensity (walking pace) for 1 hour cortisol levels decrease. So a better enviroment for staying anabolic, no?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jonnym4 said:


> *Steady state cardio is muscle wasting *due to the increased cortisol which down regulates protein synthesis and fat metabolism. However HIIT is very stressful and must be treated the same as weight training IMO so it depends on the person.
> 
> A natural bodybuilder would be much better off reducing the cortisol produced from cardio so HIIT may be the butter option. However if your enhanced then just do what pleases you In all honesty. Also for the strength athlete who's primary concern isn't body composition then steady state also serves a purpose due to low impact.


^^^No it isn't. Where did you read that?


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Big Kris said:


> All in all marathon runners train for hours and hours running mile after mile all week
> 
> Me doing 30 mins to an hour on the stepper is no where near what they are doing
> 
> Yes there is science in what your saying but doing cardio while cutting isnt like what your refering too and is only conducted for X amount of months a year, unlike the runners that are at it all year


Have you viewed the documentary yet?

The science is against you.


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

saxondale said:


> Have you viewed the documentary yet?
> 
> The science is against you.


No but i read the article you posted as im at work

Will have a watch later


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Dezw said:


> Two examples.
> 
> Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.
> 
> Sprinter - built like a tank, HIIT type training.


I've seen that picture too. Huge fallacy. No offence directed at you, but I hate this analogy.

So if the marathon runner did HIIT he would look like Dwayne chambers after a while? Absolutely not

And competitive marathon running isn't LISS either.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Dezw said:


> Two examples.
> 
> Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.
> 
> *Sprinter - built like a tank*, HIIT type training.


Wonder why sprinter is "built like a tank", nothing to do with AAS use........... :whistling:


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## Cliff (May 2, 2010)

GolfDelta said:


> Generally debates like this you notice those with the biggest opinions/attitudes have no avi.


Noticed this too.


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

Dezw said:


> Two examples.
> 
> Marathon runner - built like a twig, steady state cardio.
> 
> Sprinter - built like a tank, HIIT type training.


Well marathon runners don't really concentrate on lifting. Neither of them make any difference in terms of losing/gaining strength I've seen guys 200lbs+ running half marathons. All broscience.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> ^^^No it isn't. Where did you read that?


I suppose I wrote that wrong. Steady state increases cortisol greater than HIIT and also down regulates protein systhesis. So like I said if you're enhanced then it doesn't matter at all.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jonnym4 said:


> I suppose I wrote that wrong. Steady state increases cortisol greater than HIIT and also down regulates protein systhesis. So like I said if you're enhanced then it doesn't matter at all.


Steady state at 40% intensity i.e walking, for a period of 60 minutes actually decreases cortisol.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> Steady state at 40% intensity i.e walking, for a period of 60 minutes actually decreases cortisol.


Really? Never came across anything supporting this in trained athletes. Got a study?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

jonnym4 said:


> Really? Never came across anything supporting this in trained athletes. Got a study?


Was posted on page 3, post 43.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/cardio-kills

And your theory of anyone who is enhanced can do whatever cardio he/she feels like is made up I take it?

Only ever seen BB's walk, never HIIT.


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## lufc90 (Mar 27, 2014)

JayJay031 said:


> In the short period of time I have been weight lifting I have realized that there is a lot of ignorance with the average gym goer. There seems to be a lot of negativity towards steady state cardio among the bodybuilding world. I read and hear it nearly everywhere and it doesn't make sense. I was told once to stay away from steady state because it burns muscle and that hiit training is much more suited for people wanting to build mass but on the flip side I heard someone say you can do as much cardio as you want but if your diets not right your not losing weight. Sooo if its your diet that controls your weight then why would long distance cardio effect muscle gains if you just use common sense by putting 2 and 2 together and consuming more calories to make up for the calories lost? Doesn't it have to go through your fats and carbs before getting to protein? I have this friend who's quite knowledgeable and we always have discussions about training. I asked him if he did any cardio and he turned around and said "nah man I don't wana lose my gainz". Which I didn't care to much about because its his body but I got annoyed when he told me I was doing it all wrong by with all that cardio. He kept coming back to what this personal trainer told him and I turned around and said a personal trainer can motivate you and give you the basics but something that works for him may not work for me because of a simple thing called genetics! Some people may say genetics doesn't make a difference but for those people I will give you an example. I have friend who eats a lot of crap and will sit around on his ass all day doing nothing for months and still stay at around 8% bf! His only complaint will be "man! I haven't been gym in months and I am getting skinny" which makes no sense to me because if I did that I would blow up like a pig. I would train for months whilst he sits around but somehow he can take his top off and have this shredded lean look going on. He doesn't even have to go through that cutting bulking process! His metabolism is so high that all he needs to do is bulk all year round. Don't get me wrong I am bigger then him but a lot of my muscles are hidden behind a little fat so I make sure I run and sometimes I would even lose 1000 calories per run because I love my food and cant stand to be consuming only 2000 calories a day. I would rather burn 1000 just to add that extra food!
> 
> And for those of you talking about hiit training if you have enough energy to be doing hiit training on the same day as your strength training then your obviously not hitting the weights hard enough and need to get your priorities right unless your looking to become a sprinter. Also that has to be hard on your CNS! I hate that excuse I hear all the time about "look at marathon runner and now look at sprinter" haha its so ignorant because the best long distances runners are naturally skinny and have to stay skinny to be on top of there game where as sprinters incorporate weight lifting into there routines and have to be powerful and are also naturally bigger. I think that people think long distance running is so long and boring that there willing to throw anything out there in order to not do it so when they hear or read negativity about it they almost subconsciously make themselves believe that its not good for gains which in return makes them feel better about not doing it. Kind of like if I hate a piece of food that people are arguing with me about regarding its health benefits I will be quick to throw negative comments about it without taking time out and actually doing research on my own body just to make myself feel better about not eating it. Me personally I love running. It makes me feel good, helps with weight loss, helps with recovery and I don't want to be one of those big dudes that are big for nothing and normal life situations like making love to your women or running and playing with your kids becomes a task because your just big and stiff. So yeah would like to know how some of you more experienced guys feel about steady state cardio and any advice will be much appreciated.


My eyes bled reading that


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Dark sim said:


> Was posted on page 3, post 43.
> 
> http://www.t-nation.com/training/cardio-kills
> 
> ...


Good article that and valid points however it also confirms my points on cortisol. So fair enough at low intensity it lowers cortisol but most peoples steady state would probably surpass that level. My point on enhanced athletes was that cortisol won't be such an issue and like you said they can walk and do other LISS activities.


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

I only ever do steady state cardio too and im fcuking ripped


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