# Cycles with no Testosterone



## Andre-Mayfair (10 mo ago)

I am looking for opinions of people who have ran cycles without using testosterone. How was it? What sides did you encounter?

I have ran a few cycles in the past but have always struggled with controlling estrogen. Even on small dosages of testosterone (150mg per week), my estrodial is over >60pg/ml. Using masteron or aromasin helps bring it into range, however I feel like it is jumping up and down like a seesaw.

I am clearly very sensitive to aromatisation, however I suspect that the problem may be due to using an enanthate ester. Perhaps using propionate will address the problem as I won't have chronically elevated testosterone and instead would have more acute spikes (more similar to our natural production).

Anyway, I am looking at running a Primobolan only cycle for a few reasons:

1) To avoid battling estrogen.
2) I feel great on primo.
3) To see whether I really need testosterone during a cycle.

I recognise that on paper it makes a lot of sense to include testosterone, as natural testosterone production will be impaired. However, I know that theory often does not play out in practice. The HPTA axis and its effects are more complicated than simply producing testosterone. (You guys who have seen a sudden increase in libido when using HCG on a testosterone cycle have experienced this)!

For those of you who have done it, please comment with your experiences of running a cycle without any testosterone.


----------



## UK2USA (Jan 30, 2016)

Why no mention of an AI, or did I miss something?


----------



## Uptonogood (Feb 23, 2021)

Never heard of primo only cycles - there is a huge number or journals/guides/sites dedicated to nandralone only cycles though (normally with HCG to provide a basal level of e2) - although I can't see why similar principles couldn't apply to a primo only cycle (+HCG).

I've also heard of EQ being used as the base instead of test but success here appears to be individual dependant as there seems to be significant variation in how individuals metabolise EQ.

I'd suggest maybe looking at the nandralone only cycles/guides and seeing if there's anything in there you can use or apply to primo


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Andre-Mayfair said:


> I am looking for opinions of people who have ran cycles without using testosterone. How was it? What sides did you encounter?
> 
> I have ran a few cycles in the past but have always struggled with controlling estrogen. Even on small dosages of testosterone (150mg per week), my estrodial is over >60pg/ml. Using masteron or aromasin helps bring it into range, however I feel like it is jumping up and down like a seesaw.
> 
> ...


Testosterone is needed for your health and normal function. No other steroid does the same job. Having zero test is not good for you, your health or training.
If 150 is too much, run 100. The more compounds you use the more sides you'll get as the dose goes up and the unique sides that are there for each compound will also stack. You also need estrogen for daily health and even things like libido, so having none of that will f'ck you up too.

If you're set on it try something like 100mg test 300mg deca etc. Cycles don't need to be huge and neither do the doses. If you're struggling with sides....lower the dose.


----------



## Andre-Mayfair (10 mo ago)

UK2USA said:


> Why no mention of an AI, or did I miss something?


*I mentioned aromasin which I have used previously.*



Uptonogood said:


> Never heard of primo only cycles - there is a huge number or journals/guides/sites dedicated to nandralone only cycles though (normally with HCG to provide a basal level of e2) - although I can't see why similar principles couldn't apply to a primo only cycle (+HCG).
> 
> I've also heard of EQ being used as the base instead of test but success here appears to be individual dependant as there seems to be significant variation in how individuals metabolise EQ.
> 
> I'd suggest maybe looking at the nandralone only cycles/guides and seeing if there's anything in there you can use or apply to primo


*Thanks for your response. I actually got the idea from people I know running nandrolone only cycles!*



simonboyle said:


> Testosterone is needed for your health and normal function. No other steroid does the same job. Having zero test is not good for you, your health or training.
> If 150 is too much, run 100. The more compounds you use the more sides you'll get as the dose goes up and the unique sides that are there for each compound will also stack. You also need estrogen for daily health and even things like libido, so having none of that will f'ck you up too.
> 
> If you're set on it try something like 100mg test 300mg deca etc. Cycles don't need to be huge and neither do the doses. If you're struggling with sides....lower the dose.


I suspect that you are right. Ideally a small dosage of testosterone will be better than no testosterone. However, I am curious to know how someone feels/functions/performs without testosterone! In theory they should feel shit... but in reality?


----------



## strong_man20 (Jun 4, 2011)

Andre-Mayfair said:


> I am looking for opinions of people who have ran cycles without using testosterone. How was it? What sides did you encounter?
> 
> I have ran a few cycles in the past but have always struggled with controlling estrogen. Even on small dosages of testosterone (150mg per week), my estrodial is over >60pg/ml. Using masteron or aromasin helps bring it into range, however I feel like it is jumping up and down like a seesaw.
> 
> ...


You can still make gains with no synthetic testosterone. When I started taking AAS I had to abstain from injectables due to my living arrangements. I did a Winstrol only cycle and quite frankly my libido was highly enhanced and got my best gains 👌.

Ditto Anavar only although Winstrol only yielded better results. No HCG or clomid and recovery felt quite seamless although no bloods to back this up. I kept all my gains and felt well during my transition from enhanced to natural. Although keep in mind I was in my early 20's at the time and did not have as much muscle.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Andre-Mayfair said:


> *I mentioned aromasin which I have used previously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's irrelevant. You can feel great and still drop dead the next minute. 
Feelings don't really mean anything.


----------



## B88F (Mar 22, 2021)

Haven't got time to read the full thread but a primo only cycle may render your e2 in the gutter, combine that with zero testosterone in your body also (because adding any form of anabolic will shut your testicles off anyway) and you'll probably feel pretty crappy, everyones different though and you might be fine, i wouldn't be though, also you maybe have difficulty in the bedroom, but if that doesn't matter then go for it bud.


----------



## Uptonogood (Feb 23, 2021)

B88F said:


> Haven't got time to read the full thread but a primo only cycle may render your e2 in the gutter, combine that with zero testosterone in your body also (because adding any form of anabolic will shut your testicles off anyway) and you'll probably feel pretty crappy, everyones different though and you might be fine, i wouldn't be though, also you maybe have difficulty in the bedroom, but if that doesn't matter then go for it bud.


I think to be fair when these guys run the test-free cycles they are supposed to run ancillaries alongside to provide e2 - HCG/DHEA/4-andro etc

I'm not sure how effective it is though


----------



## Trenna (10 mo ago)

Primo only cycles are fine mate you don’t need test with it at all! Plenty BBers run primo and nandrolone without test.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Trenna said:


> Primo only cycles are fine mate you don’t need test with it at all! Plenty BBers run primo and nandrolone without test.


"You don't need test at all"
🤣

This more of your fantastic advice.

You need test, period! On or off cycle, to be healthy and for a multitude of process in your body.
There's never a point when an adult male "doesn't need test at all"

You're honestly clueless.

Why do people like you think they're in a position to give any advice?
How does someone "not need test at all". Go, explain in asany words as you can.

No test also means no estrogen. Guess by your standards you don't need estrogen either?
Or DHT?

I look forward to your dismissive answer as you can't back up anything you say.


----------



## Trenna (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> "You don't need test at all"
> 🤣
> 
> This more of your fantastic advice.
> ...


K bro.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Trenna said:


> K bro.


Thought as much.

All the gear, no idea. You have zero clue about anything. Stuck to pinning too much gear and keep your made up advice out the ears of people seeking help..


----------



## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

Andre-Mayfair said:


> For those of you who have done it, please comment with your experiences of running a cycle without any testosterone.


Never tried it myself, always added in some testosterone.
Older thread with a bit of info on it









Primo Only Cycle?


Just curious what you guys think of a Primo only cycle? Some of the guys I talk to are saying that at a low dose it won't even shut you down and is great for cutting and slowly adding lean muscle... The research I've done is conflicting.. Looks like it does shut you down, and I would tend to...




www.uk-muscle.co.uk


----------



## Trenna (10 mo ago)

TURBS said:


> Never tried it myself, always added in some testosterone.
> Older thread with a bit of info on it
> 
> 
> ...


My first cycle was 400mg primo enth only. Loved it.


----------



## Andre-Mayfair (10 mo ago)

simonboyle said:


> It's irrelevant. You can feel great and still drop dead the next minute.
> Feelings don't really mean anything.


Feelings mean everything. We all die eventually so why not ensure we feel great as much as possible why we're here?

Just messing, I get your point.

Really appreciate your input here.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Andre-Mayfair said:


> Feelings mean everything. We all die eventually so why not ensure we feel great as much as possible why we're here?
> 
> Just messing, I get your point.
> 
> Really appreciate your input here.


Yup. Feel great right up to the point your heart imploded


----------



## oddsball (8 mo ago)

You could always go for the classic Dbol / Deca stack. The Dbol will act as a test base of sorts.


----------

