# Pain and soreness after every sub-q hgh injection! Whats wrong?



## robbyreflex

Been on hgh for the first time now for 5 days, and my stomach is hurting all over after the sub-q shots. Gets really tender and sore.

First I thought it was due to not switching injection site, but even that didn't help.

I draw up and shoot with the same needle, since i can't switch on the insulin needles i got, can this be the problem?

I used to do melanotan sub-q and didn't have any pain then, so i don't think its my technique either.

the hgh is from a trusted source and my bacteriostatic water, even though its a year old, has never been opened and has exp. date in oct 2010.

PLEASE, can anyone help me here? I don't want to quit the hgh just because of pain after injecting.


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## Rambo55

Get more needles then mate, you drawing up and shooting with then same pin you are blunting it then its hurting you going in as its not as sharp as it should be.


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## jonesy1234cas

i have the same problem with hcg,,and i use diff needles to draw up then inject


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## 3752

you are not pinching enough skin pinch and pull it out then inject behind your fingers


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## robbyreflex

I'm not quite sure if i got that right. inject behind fingers? so under the fingers then, or?


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## The_Wolverine

like pscarb said.. just pinch the skin between finger an thumb and pull away and inject into the the skin you pinched.. pull the needle out an release the skin.


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## TURTLE21

can it be done with sus,deca etc..

what are benifits to sub-q jabs or is it just for HGH etc.


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## The_Wolverine

yes can be done with other steroids,. but not large amount. id say no more thn 0.5ml per injection... thers quite a few threads on this topic,..

its good for when cruising as your only using small doses and it lets your previous injection sites heal to stop the build up of scar tissue,.. also if you using high amounts of gear on a cycle again could use sub-q again as another site so your not using the same sites over and over....


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## robbyreflex

Tried doing it as pscarb told me now several times, but it still hurts like a mother****er! I'm can't really see that the needle gets very blunted either, if so, how can anyone use insulin needles, if they get blunted that easy i mean?

Sorry for the noob questions, but before when i did melanotan injections, everything was fine, so i don't think its my injection technique.

Could it be that the bac. water has been laying around for too long? Looked like there was slightly less water in it than before, even though it was not opened, could this have something to do with it?

I get my needles from the needle exchange, so does anyone now if u can get 1ml syringes and yellow switchable pins instead of the insulin ones?


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## mark831

robbyreflex said:


> Tried doing it as pscarb told me now several times, but it still hurts like a mother****er! I'm can't really see that the needle gets very blunted either, if so, how can anyone use insulin needles, if they get blunted that easy i mean?
> 
> Sorry for the noob questions, but before when i did melanotan injections, everything was fine, so i don't think its my injection technique.
> 
> Could it be that the bac. water has been laying around for too long? Looked like there was slightly less water in it than before, even though it was not opened, could this have something to do with it?
> 
> I get my needles from the needle exchange, so does anyone now if u can get 1ml syringes and yellow switchable pins instead of the insulin ones?


Hi mate, had a similar problem several months back.... Do you get red welt type markings that itch for a few days? Assuming your hgh is real ( mine was) change your needles to the nevershare brand. It's about £10 for 100 and just use them once. After I changed the pins I went sub q in my **** and never had any problems for the last 5 months.


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## Northern Rocker

my slin pins are also the fixed needle type and I dont care to backfill them pulling out the plunger as I think the chances of hygiene issue are increased messing around like that.

That being said, now and again it hurts a little bit more than it would with a fresh needle when jabbing but after the jab there's zero pain.

I think it could be your HGH.

Have you had any sides, i.e. weight increase, tingling fngers etc. ?


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## Northern Rocker

my slin pins are also the fixed needle type and I dont care to backfill them pulling out the plunger as I think the chances of hygiene issue are increased messing around like that.

That being said, now and again it hurts a little bit more than it would with a fresh needle when jabbing but after the jab there's zero pain.

I think it could be your HGH.

Have you had any sides, i.e. weight increase, tingling fngers etc. ?

Is it really BAC water or Nacl ?


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## kingprop

Is it drawn out of a vial thats been kept cold, as it should be? Try not injecting it so cold. Draw it out and leave the pin out for a wee while. Whenever I inject it straight from the fridge so to speak, it hurts like hell.


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## Prodiver

It won't be the pins blunting, and is unlikely to be your technique.

Sounds like the HGH to me.

Try doing it sub-q in your quad and keep it moving.


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## robbyreflex

So do you mean that I have bad hgh, or just that hgh can hurt more than melano? Haven't gotten any sides, but only been on for about a week (ramped up from 2iu to 4iu, which I'm on now).

Tried injecting sub-q in my thigh just now, so we'll se if i get the same pain there after a couple of hours.

Kingprop: does it hurt like a bruise after a couple of hours or just hurt when u inject? My fridge is pretty cold, so it might be this.

Thanks for all the answers guys, much appreciated.


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## robbyreflex

yep, then my thigh is as sore and painful as my stomach..


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## kingprop

It stings for quite a while mate and can become uncomfortable. It can bruise occasionally too if done too cold. The addition of compound, BA, and coldness can cause tissue necrosis due to the inflammation and injury. It happens a lot with peptide use. Itchy, red welts usually.


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## e8_pack

post up pics of the HGH.

Could be the BSW, BA might be too high concentration, this will sting like a mofo.

Post pics of BSW also.


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## robbyreflex

Allright, It's definately the hgh thats causing the pain. I did one shot of 4iu hgh and a shot of melano as well, both the same temp. and only the hgh stings afterwards.

But it might be the concentration as u mention e8_pack. I'll post pics of the hgh and see what u think.


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## kingprop

Switch to sterilised water. Cow and Gate do a small jar for tiny babies to drink. Ask the chemist. If it persists then it must be the HGH, which may be contaminated. Are there any bruising signs to the sites? Itchyness?


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## hackskii

What if you are pushing the plunger too hard?

This can spray and cause damage to the tissue, you need to inject slowly.

Put some water in a syrenge and see how far it squirts when you depress the plunger, that is how hard it is going into the tissue.


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## robbyreflex

I tried mixing with 1,5ml instead of 1ml, but didn't help anything.

I might be pushing to hard on the plunger, but then I think i also would have had post injection pain with the melanotan as well, but I'll try to do it even slower.

And theres no itchyness, just a little swelling, redness and sore to touch.


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## hackskii

Less bac water the better.


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## robbyreflex

Allright, now I've tried everything, bought new bac water, new needles and still it swells and stings for a couple of days.

What should I do? I've been on the forum which I got the blues from and written in the sponsors post, but doesn't seem like anyone else experience the same symptoms.

Should I discontinue?? I can always manage to stay on for a couple of more months until I used up the remaining, but could it hurt me somehow, or would I have noticed if it was anything by now?


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## kingprop

So you tried simple sterile water? And it still happens?


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## robbyreflex

kingprop said:


> So you tried simple sterile water? And it still happens?


No, because i use the same bac water with my melano inj. so didn't think it made any difference. Does it? Could it be painfree with melanotan, but hurt with hgh?


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## nuttyprofessor

I have exactly the same problem. This morning I tried a saline solution - at room temp - in place of BW. The result appears to be the same.


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## robbyreflex

Read on the forum i got it from that it happens with gh that contains more fillers. Whats fillers?


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## jw007

I have heard\know people experienced this problem with a certain brand of gh, while its no problem for others, same as you, tried every injection technique etc etc

Think must have a reaction to that Gh..

Not had myself however


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## robbyreflex

I got an answer from the other board about it being my body creating antibodies against it, and after a while it won't come any red welts anymore because my body had successfully created antibodies against it, rendering the gh as useless:cursing:


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## kingprop

^ Thats crap mate. Not true.

Get some sterile water and use it to dilute the chosen GH dose. So that the volume of injection is more but solution is weaker.


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## robbyreflex

didn' find any sterile water anywhere, found alot of cow and gates jares, but no water, just babyfood:S

Anyway, I bought a saline solution and injected with that, with a weaker solution than before, and still i get the red welts.

But I can cope with the pain for a couple of more months, as long as the gh isn't useless, i'm good.


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## nuttyprofessor

Since I have the same problem, I have done some research. Seems this is quite common with Chinese GH (and not only, but seem to be most common with the bargain-basement rHGH products). Possible causes:

1. Impurites in the GH. Even though 191aa the process to take out impurities is complex.

2. 192aa Some people have reactions to this and despite what you hear it is not identical to your own. There is an extra amino in the chain.

3. Bacteriostatic water. Some of it has Alcohol in it and people get reactions from it.

4. GH antibodies. Some people produce these when external GH is added. I have not been able to get any good reports on the repercussion. Some say they will just render the external GH useless and some say it will also render your own natural GH useless as well. I have read studies where people have produced anti-bodies and the GH still worked. So, I am not sure if they are anything to worry about.

Anyway many people report the problem generally subside, if you stick with it.


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## robbyreflex

Sounds interesting nuttyprofessor, could you possibly give me a link to the studies were people have created antibodies and still got results?


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## musclemorpheus

Robby if you go to Professional muscle forum there is a guy called DatBtrue who has done loads of research on Growth Hormone and peptides and he does say in one of his threads..

here's a snippet very scientific though..

This underscores some of the problems with the long-chain complex structure of synthetic GH and touches on why people in part experience a wide variety of experiences concerning effectiveness and red welts.

Aggregation

Protein molecules can often undergo self-association by physical or chemical forces to form dimers, trimers, tetramers, or higher oligomers. This self-association or aggregation is a common problem during formulation development and pharmaceutical processing. Although aggregation is physical instability, it can lead to loss of biological activity. However, some proteins may exert their biological effects as a dimer, trimer, or higher oligomeric forms and may lose biological activity on dissociation. For instance, tumor necrosis factor exists as a compact trimer in aqueous solutions, and maintenance of its trimeric structure is essential for its activity. In any case, a study of the aggregation phenomena is crucial to developing a successful peptide or protein formulation. Even if aggregation does not result in loss of bioactivity, formation of insoluble aggregates can cause blockage of tubing, membranes, or pumps in an infusion set, as is the case with insulin. Furthermore, because aggregation leads to an increase in effective molecular weight, the aggregated protein may be more immunogenic.

[To be clear here, aggregation may be responsible for the ability of a particular substance, to provoke an immune response... such as is sometimes seen w/ black market GH]

Aggregation behavior of human growth hormone

The hGH can undergo aggregation to form a dimer or higher molecular weight oligomers. Such aggregation can take place during formulation, processing, storage, and reconstitution. Phenolic compounds also induce aggregation of hGH. The most common aggregation product is a stable, noncovalent dimer that is chemically identical to hGH but is essentially inactive in bioassay. Zinc ions (Zn2+) can also induce dimerization of hGH. Two Zn2+ ions associate per dimer of hGH, and the formation of the Zn2+-hGH dimeric complex may be important for the storage of hGH in secretory granules. Replacement of potential Zn2+ ligands such as His18, His21, and Glu174 in hGH with alanine has been reported to weaken Zn2+ binding, thereby preventing formation of hGH dimer. Aggregation of hGH was known to be a problem during its preparation from pituitary gland before the availability of the recombinant protein. A process of ultrafiltration was shown to result in an aggregate-free preparation. Aggregation of hGH can be induced by freezing and thawing or by agitation. Product literature of recombinant hGH from Eli Lilly (Humatrope) instructs to reconstitute the lyophilized powder by injecting the diluent against the glass wall and mixing by gentle swirling, without any shaking. As currently formulated, hGH readily precipitates out of neutral solution with vigorous mixing. Besides stability and bioactivity considerations, any aggregation of hGH may increase the antigenicity of the product.

[To be clear aggregation of GH has the capacity to stimulate the production of antibodies or the capacity to react with an antibody.]


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## robbyreflex

Cheers musclemorpheus, already read it, if you look in the thread i asked some questions there as well

But was just wondering if there were any studies that shown results of hgh use, even after getting these red welts.


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## flame

Robby :-

i wonder if you read this thread

( I'm haveing the same prob as that guy)

http://forums.isteroids.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/68455-hgh-injection-sites-sore-red-swollen-itchy.html#post535662

if it is the "filler that is in the HGH vial. Its called Manitol" that is doing it then the hgh will still work

hope this helps


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