# Muscle definition



## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Am currently bulking up on a high protein diet (phd pharma whey) to build muscle and mass. My question is once am happy with my size what can I then do to gain muscle definition? Ive been lifting heavy and slowly. Am I now needing to lift light and fast? Also am still taking phd pharma whey. Wrong supplement? Any advice would be great guys. cheers


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## Rottee (Jun 11, 2009)

You`ll never be happy with your size trust me!!


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Nothing to do with the way you lift (well not massively), definition comes from lowing your bodyfat.


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

2004mark said:


> Nothing to do with the way you lift (well not massively), definition comes from lowing your bodyfat.


x2

and is your high protein diet your phd pharma whey


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Whats the idea of lifting light and loads of reps then? Just strength building?


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Not just pharma whey, tins of tuna in between meals, lots of chicken and fish and omlettes, have pharma whey on a morning, before and after a work out.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

waddy9494 said:


> Whats the idea of lifting light and loads of reps then? Just strength building?


How is lifting light for strength?


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

waddy9494 said:


> Whats the idea of lifting light and loads of reps then? Just strength building?


Lol, back to the drawing board methinks


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## superdazzler (Feb 13, 2012)

Lower body fat - simple


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

This is why am on here...for advice. Its clearly obvious am a newbee so any advice would be good


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Cheers Zclock


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

I will tell you how to get big in 4 easy steps!!!!

1. EAT loads more then you can handle....eat past your fullness and eat some more (as much healthy food as you can)

2. Train hard and heavy. Make sure your knackered/sick after an hour in the gym.

3. Get some good rest sleep, nap, watch tv, read

4. Stay consistent for at least a year


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

waddy9494 said:


> Whats the idea of lifting light and loads of reps then? Just strength building?


Not greatly used in bodybuilding at all really. Although I wouldn't discount them completely but they are more likely to be used as a more advanced technique for a specific reason.

I do speed/explosive sessions sometimes where I will aim for 12+ on compounds and 30 reps on isolations (with 3 x 10 second breaks), but this is more to give my joints a rest for a week. Also make me feel more 'athletic', I guess they help with cardio and endurance.


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

To be fair even as a newbie not many people associate the word 'strong' with light weights!


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

ok cheers so basically keep on the high protein diet, lift heavy and do plenty of cardio to give me that muscle definition?


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

lol I didnt mean very light weights but just enough to be able to do quicker reps rather than lift heavy


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

waddy9494 said:


> ok cheers so basically keep on the high protein diet, lift heavy and do plenty of cardio to give me that muscle definition?


Build the muscle up first then worry about losing fat, to get that definition


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

waddy9494 said:


> ok cheers so basically keep on the high protein diet, lift heavy and do plenty of cardio to give me that muscle definition?


Well remember you can't effectively bulk (add muscle) and cut (lower bodyfat) at the same time. Pick one and stick to it consistently for a decent amount of time.


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Ok good advice guys cheers. Once I decide am bulked enough and want to loose body fat whats the best work out to loose body fat without loosing bulk at the same time?


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## Breda (May 2, 2011)

Kennyken said:


> I will tell you how to get big in 4 easy steps!!!!
> 
> 1. EAT loads more then you can handle....eat past your fullness and eat some more (as much healthy food as you can)
> 
> ...


Fcuk... did this just happen.....


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Breda said:


> Fcuk... did this just happen.....


what breda?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

waddy9494 said:


> Ok good advice guys cheers. Once I decide am bulked enough and want to loose body fat whats the best work out to loose body fat without loosing bulk at the same time?


Lower your fat and carb intake by around 750-1000 cals, keep protein high and keep hitting the gym, obviously cardio helps too.


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## Renorockstar (Mar 2, 2012)

Zclock said:


> I think muscles get a more "mature" look when you have trained longer. And there is ways to activate different kind of muscle fibers like lifting faster / slower etc, if that is of any benefit when it comes to muscle definition I do not know mate.
> 
> But what I do know is if you are on a calori+ for like 1 or 2 years and train different types of reps, and do never exclude benchpress, deadlift, or squats, OHP and chins and mix it up somethimes fast reps, slow reps many reps, lower reps you will get maximum results and I think your answer lies there.
> 
> Good luck and dont make training harder than it is, just train hardcore.


Great advice.


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

waddy9494 said:


> Ok good advice guys cheers. Once I decide am bulked enough and want to loose body fat whats the best work out to loose body fat without loosing bulk at the same time?


the same as you do when you bulk...just eat less. maybe add some cardio in


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Ok bud will do, cheers for advice fellas. Don't really eat carbs just high protein foods so think am already along the right lines. Only really have carbs before a workout.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

waddy9494 said:


> Ok bud will do, cheers for advice fellas. Don't really eat carbs just high protein foods so think am already along the right lines. Only really have carbs before a workout.


You should be getting 30-40% of your daily calories from protein, the other 70-60% should come from carbs and fat. Otherwise (amongst other things) it's going to be extremely expensive lol


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Am just on phd pharma whey at the moment and grenade. Is there anything else any of you recommend?


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

waddy9494 said:


> Am just on phd pharma whey at the moment and grenade. Is there anything else any of you recommend?


Chicken and beef... seriously. Shakes are only a protein supplement, they are not designed to replace food completely.


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Kennyken said:


> Build the muscle up first then worry about losing fat, to get that definition


Why get fat in the first place?? It just means you gotta be miserable and diet...just to find out your gains weren't as good as you imagined they would be....



2004mark said:


> *Well remember you can't effectively bulk (add muscle) and cut (lower bodyfat) at the same time*. Pick one and stick to it consistently for a decent amount of time.


Thats a load of sh!t!

OP, stay relatively lean and grow, you will see the changes and won't spend most of the second year trying to get all that fat back off again...

And for those that say you can't grow whilst lean...i did,Bri does, in fact almost everyone i know manages to grow just fine whilst keeping full sight of their ab's and serattus - FAT doesn't 'help' you gain muscle...If you have your diet right then there is NO reason why you won't grow


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

Ser said:


> Why get fat in the first place?? It just means you gotta be miserable and diet...just to find out your gains weren't as good as you imagined they would be....
> 
> Thats a load of sh!t!
> 
> ...


What about calories ser. inexcess or not ?


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Have I set off an argument? lol.


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

I know its a devils creation but ive been weighing my self and even though ive bulked up on my upper body the scales havent moved because i am also loosing body fat too so the scales say i havent GAINED weight.


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Well he has to post his diet for us to tell him how to improve it! Calories should be enough to grow..but not enough to get FAT, as previously stated, FAT doesn't help you gain muscle, its just fat.

I use the mirror if i am getting less lean, i drop a little, if i am getting more lean i up a little...i NEVER lose sight of cuts in my legs, my ab's etc...and i have gained nearly four st over the last couple of years....and i see where i am improving as i haven't buried all my hard work under a thick layer of fat.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Ser said:


> Thats a load of sh!t!
> 
> OP, stay relatively lean and grow, you will see the changes and won't spend most of the second year trying to get all that fat back off again...
> 
> And for those that say you can't grow whilst lean...i did,Bri does, in fact almost everyone i know manages to grow just fine whilst keeping full sight of their ab's and serattus - FAT doesn't 'help' you gain muscle...If you have your diet right then there is NO reason why you won't grow


I'm not advocating turning into a lump Ser. And of course you don't need to get fat to add muscle, but you do need a calorie surplus which makes it very hard to loose fat at the same time (especially if you have a belly to shift as the op said he does).

I agree totally with what you're saying about keeping things in control, as I'm also adding muscle while staying relatively lean (obs not at weemans level lol), but it's inevitable I'm going to add a couple of lbs of fat when bulking... even if on aas, which I doubt the OP is.


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

waddy9494 said:


> I know its a devils creation but ive been weighing my self and even though ive bulked up on my upper body the scales havent moved because i am also loosing body fat too so the scales say i havent GAINED weight.


Thats why its best to not use the scales but to use a mirror, also helps to take pics every four weeks, that way you can compare them side by side


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

2004mark said:


> I'm not advocating turning into a lump Ser. And of course you don't need to get fat to add muscle, but you do need a calorie surplus which makes it very hard to loose fat at the same time (especially if you have a belly to shift as the op said he does).
> 
> I agree totally with what you're saying about keeping things in control, as I'm also adding muscle while staying relatively lean (obs not at weemans level lol), but it's inevitable I'm going to add a couple of lbs of fat when bulking... even if on aas, which I doubt the OP is.


I'm not talking about staying in stage condition lol, but to have definition, GOOD definition isn't hard and won't stop you growing....


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

ser i mean for myself for calories. would i eat in excess to gain muscle or just stick to macros and not worry about calories as such?


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)




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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

That was taken two weeks ago


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## chambers9k (May 2, 2011)

Dude you need to post up your daily diet. Everything you eat in a normal day. Your stats, height, weight age etc.

People may be able to give you some advice based on that


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

Ser said:


> I'm not talking about staying in stage condition lol, but to have definition, GOOD definition isn't hard and won't stop you growing....


Yep, but that's somewhat irrelevant. I don't think he's got the luxury of starting anywhere close to stage condition.

Saying that, you (op) look a lot leaner than I imagined from your description. Although Ser and me seem to be having a bit of a disagreement ( :surrender: ), I think what we're saying isn't too different.

Get a grip of what you need to be eating (calories from fat, carbs and protein), what you're eating now and address the difference. Then monitor progress on a month to month basis.


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Right ok in the army so food wise not always the same, 5-6 small meals a day, It will ONLY include things like, chicken, steak, fish (no batter), tuna, eggs as boiled or omlette. Plenty of fruit and some times I have porridge on a morning (no sugar) I will also have protein shake in a morning, before and after a workout. I am also taking grenade ona morning and just before a workout. Will only eat a few of carbs (pasta or rise) when due to go to the gym. Am 5"11 and weigh 78kg. I weight train 5 days a week then on a saturday high intense fart lek training and have sunday off. After each workout i will do roughly 10-15 mins abs


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Kennyken said:


> ser i mean for myself for calories. would i eat in excess to gain muscle or just stick to macros and not worry about calories as such?


I don't count cals personally, i go by macro's, and if i am gonna fall short of my meal quota...i make sure i get the protein in above fats or carbs.

Tbh, i know what i aim for rerotein to grow, as for the rest, i judge by the mirror as i said before, if i am getting less lean then i eat less carbs and fats, if i am getting more lean i tend to up them a little. I am happy with my bf being at this level so try to hover around the same.

If you are eating enough protein and training hard enough, you can get leaner AND grow.

Keep a general eye on how watery you are too...



waddy9494 said:


> View attachment 78062


You are quite lean, you got a little gunt and the beginnings of love handles, but you are new to this and thats what most guys start out like. Train hard, concentrate on getting protein in(food, REAL FOOD preferably) medium amount of carbs, low-medium amount of GOOD fats, after four weeks take another few pics...and see what the changes are, then decide to either:keep things the same, lower carbs and fats, or up carbs and fats....just gotta wait and see how your body reacts.

And remember...when weighing yourself, your stomache content will affect the results, sometimes by a good few lbs!


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Dont laugh at my curtains either there army curtains lol


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## expletive (Sep 12, 2011)

Enough of all this good advice please....

Your missing the big picture here

Did i really read Kennyken giving diet advice?

ooh me poor ticker


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

ken will change his advice in a minute, tell him to jump on a cut for a bit before bulking.


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## chris4aka (Sep 15, 2008)

try roids

done


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Legal roids? Don't want to fail my **** test. (Army)


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

waddy9494 said:


> Legal roids? Don't want to fail my **** test. (Army)


 :whistling: :whistling: :whistling:

Everyone in the army is natty....really they are:wink:


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Natty?


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

natural...


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Haha right get you, i know plenty thats on the roids and just risk it for a biscuit


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## Ser (Aug 10, 2008)

Drug tests are usually only for reccy drugs mate...why do you think they are never caught?


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Wouldn't lifting slightly lighter weights but more reps burn more body fat and then achieve quicker muscle definition?


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

waddy9494 said:


> Wouldn't lifting slightly lighter weights but more reps burn more body fat and then achieve quicker muscle definition?


yes in a way, but in a heavy intense weight session you typically burn more calories than a cardio session

so go hard and heavy but shorten rest times add in dropsets and supersets to keep your training intense as well as adding fasted morning cardio if possible if not 15 min HIIT 3x a week after workout should do you fine


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## waddy9494 (Mar 9, 2012)

Ok mate that's excellent advice. Also heard to do cardio after weight training&#8230;


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## begal (Jan 27, 2005)

i like your advice Ser when i started out i was 6/3 9 and a half stone i trained myself to eat good food and also **** on top

I was stick thin everyone said just pile it in i got really good at force feeding myself and i grew i got up to 16 stone but over the years the fat crept on.

It was a hard mind set to get out of just forcing down food I wish i would have just ate reasonably clean food because its a bastard one day when you realise you have to cut 2 stone


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

like most have said just lower ur bf and improve ur conditioning. keep ur weight training nice n heavy


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