# HGH timing on low carb



## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Hi peeps,

I've read a lot about HGH timing, however always pinned it before empty stomach cardio in the AM and it worked well.

Nowadays I cannot perform empty stomach cardio, because I'm training twice a day due to my job. I'm doing a body recomposition, and I'm getting really lean, so I want to use some HGH again to lean a bit more.

My diet is very low carb, I only eat oats (100g) in the AM and some vitargo PWO after first session, rest of meals are protein/fats/veggies. It goes like this:

*Meal 1:* Carbs/protein/fats

First Workout + cardio

*PWO:* Carbs/protein

*Meal 2: *protein/fats/veggies

*Meal 3:* protein/fats/veggies

Second Workout + cardio

*Meal 4:* protein/fats/veggies

*Meal 5:* protein/fats/veggies

*
Meal 6:* protein/fats

I was thinking of using 4ui HGH PWO after my second workout, or even pre workout after my second workout...

Any ideas? Some people say fats blunt GH, but I guess that only applies for natty GH, this is synthetic so only carbs should matter (insulin resistance). Not sure anyway.

Thanks in advance.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

GH increases insulin resistance in itself, neither Carbs or Fats hinder synthetic GH....you can eat a pasta meal and inject whilst you are eating and it will make no difference


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> GH increases insulin resistance in itself, neither Carbs or Fats hinder synthetic GH....you can eat a pasta meal and inject whilst you are eating and it will make no difference


Out of interest mate I notice you do your Gh pre bed now

Do you think using your daily amount of Gh lets say postworkout (when you be having alot of carbs) would course extra fat gain as Gh makes you insulin resistant ??


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> GH increases insulin resistance in itself, neither Carbs or Fats hinder synthetic GH....you can eat a pasta meal and inject whilst you are eating and it will make no difference


PSCarb it's okay to pin it then even if I ate first meal 1h ago? That wouldn't be empty stomach. My goal is fat loss.

Something like: meal 1, wait 1h, pin GH then go workout.

Thanks!


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## Genmutant (May 13, 2014)

FranJ said:


> PSCarb it's okay to pin it then even if I ate first meal 1h ago? That wouldn't be empty stomach. My goal is fat loss.
> 
> Something like: meal 1, wait 1h, pin GH then go workout.
> 
> Thanks!


For fat loos use it before workout. Fasted. So you van burn the fat acids in the workout...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

bail said:


> Out of interest mate I notice you do your Gh pre bed now
> 
> Do you think using your daily amount of Gh lets say postworkout (when you be having alot of carbs) would course extra fat gain as Gh makes you insulin resistant ??


its not that simple, yes insulin resistance is a side effect of using synthetic GH but if you live a decent lifestyle then you will counter this, plus you then need to think about the fact GH will and does lower fat levels. but being insulin resistance is not something where you just eat carbs then your fat, its a complicated process....



FranJ said:


> PSCarb it's okay to pin it then even if I ate first meal 1h ago? That wouldn't be empty stomach. My goal is fat loss.
> 
> Something like: meal 1, wait 1h, pin GH then go workout.
> 
> Thanks!


if your goal is fat loss use GH before Cardio, having a meal before has no influence on the FFA's released (it goes without saying you would not do either activity on a full stomach though)



Genmutant said:


> For fat loos use it before workout. Fasted. So you van burn the fat acids in the workout...


this is incorrect, you do not need to be fasted for the FFA's to be released, it is the type of cardio you do after your GH that matters, and fasted cardio being the best form of cardio for fat loss is a myth....

guys GH is a synthetic product, by this i mean it is all ready GH when you inject it, it does not matter when you eat or when you inject it for it to work, there are some rules for optimal use like before cardio to optimally take advantage of the released FFA's......

its not a simple process by this i mean you do not just inject it and hey presto stuff happens......


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Pscarb said:


> its not that simple, yes insulin resistance is a side effect of using synthetic GH but if you live a decent lifestyle then you will counter this, plus you then need to think about the fact GH will and does lower fat levels. but being insulin resistance is not something where you just eat carbs then your fat, its a complicated process....
> 
> if your goal is fat loss use GH before Cardio, having a meal before has no influence on the FFA's released (it goes without saying you would not do either activity on a full stomach though)
> 
> ...


Just goes to show how much **** people make up. I've never used gh myself but a friend did and guy it came from said use first thing in morning and don't eat for an hour because carbs affect the gh or something like that.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sen said:


> Just goes to show how much **** people make up. I've never used gh myself but a friend did and guy it came from said use first thing in morning and don't eat for an hour because carbs affect the gh or something like that.


there is a lot of misinformation around mainly from guys in gyms that want to look like they know everything, what this guy has said applies to peptides like GHRP/GHRH not synthetic GH


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks a lot Pscarb.

I'll use it pre workout... loads of missinformation around internet nowadays...


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

By the way, having said this, if we use GH PWO, it's okay to drink protein/carb shake immediately? or insulin resistance would blunt GH "anabolic" effects PWO?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

FranJ said:


> By the way, having said this, if we use GH PWO, it's okay to drink protein/carb shake immediately? or insulin resistance would blunt GH "anabolic" effects PWO?


ok lets knock this on the head, you need to google what insulin resistance is as it is clear from your post you have no idea.....

i will say this just one more time as the many times i have said it in this thread seems to have gone unnoticed, the timing of your meals have *NO* influence on synthetic GH.


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> ok lets knock this on the head, you need to google what insulin resistance is as it is clear from your post you have no idea.....
> 
> i will say this just one more time as the many times i have said it in this thread seems to have gone unnoticed, the timing of your meals have *NO* influence on synthetic GH.


Got it mate,

Thanks.


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## h901 (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm sure when there is insulin in the blood gh does not work effectively or is it that natural gh release


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

h901 said:


> I'm sure when there is insulin in the blood gh does not work effectively or is it that natural gh release


natural release (peptides)


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## h901 (Jul 4, 2010)

Pscarb said:


> natural release (peptides)


natural release as in what your body produces naturally.

for example when you go to bed, if there is insulin in the bloodstream the body doesn't release gh


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Insulin blunts natural GH release but when you go to bed you do not immediately release GH so nothing you eat at bed time would effect the GH release when you reach REM sleep

And natural as in natural of course


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Hi there,

Update status: I've been pinning GH first thing in the morning, not doing cardio afterwards, just waiting 15 min while I prepare my breakfast (it includes 60g carbs) and I've experienced fat loss. I guess it really doesn't matter when you pin GH since it will release FFA anyway as PScarb stated. The thing is those FFA are released after 3h or so, not after 30 min.

View attachment 162304


Obviously it would be wise to wait 30 min after GH pin, and then do some low intensity cardio to use FFA as energy source instead of glycogen. In my case, I train 3h after GH pin, I guess that by the end of my workout (low glycogen stores) when I do PWO cardio I'm using FFA from GH. Seems to work pretty well. GH timing doesn't seem to be really important.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

can you quote the study please?, if you look at the chart the GH releases the FFA's within the first hour then they peak at a certain dose at 3hrs, if they did not release for 3hrs the graph would be flat at the start, it is not.

a link to the study would help understanding the basis around the graph.

but you are correct timing has no influence on GH use at all.


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Sorry for bumping.

Pscarb if we were to use exogenous insulin (humalog), would it hinder the quantity of FFA that GH release? i guess it does since exogenous insulin stays active for 3h and during high levels of insulin we cannot burn FFA even if GH has released them.

I was thinking of using low dose humalog like 3-4iu pre workout including some carbs intra (30g) and keeping my GH in the morning, but I wanna maximize fat loss.

Thanks.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

FranJ said:


> Sorry for bumping.
> 
> Pscarb if we were to use exogenous insulin (humalog), would it hinder the quantity of FFA that GH release? i guess it does since exogenous insulin stays active for 3h and during high levels of insulin we cannot burn FFA even if GH has released them.
> 
> ...


once insulin is present your body will not burn fat, be the insulin come from natural methods or synthetic.....


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> once insulin is present your body will not burn fat, be the insulin come from natural methods or synthetic.....


Thanks a lot for answer Pscarb, you are very kind.

As I said in previous post I managed to lose body fat eating 15 min after pinning 3iu GH pharm grade, I eat 60g of carbs (slow digesting)/40g protein/15g fats after pin (breakfast), and train 2 hours later.

So I guess having stable blood sugar levels during the day, even if you eat carbs, should allow you to burn FFA from GH, but probably it would be much better if you just ate protein and fats to maximize fat loss, I'm right? If my breakfast didn't have any carbs I would burn more FFA.

This is a recent pic of my GH results. Would like to lose 1-2% more body fat.










Sorry for being so nosy, and excuse my english, but in my country is hard to find good info about GH usage.

Thank you all again.


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Also one more thing, GH fat loss is an accumulative effect of GH usage by increased levels of IGF-1? Could that be a reason why it works wonders long term?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

no one is saying that you will not lose fat, i am saying if insulin is in play then fat burning will not occur.......the body is a complicated system its not about just injecting then hey presto everything is released and doing its thing....

as your graph showed and you misinterpreted FFA release is pretty much instant and peaks at approx 3hrs before it declines, you will not have insulin in the system for that long unless you are constantly eating, FFA's don't just go away when you eat carbs, again its not that simple.....

you are leaner because you are using GH, just because you are eating carbs 15min after the jab does not mean you cannot be leaner??

can you post the reference for that graph please?


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

Pscarb said:


> no one is saying that you will not lose fat, i am saying if insulin is in play then fat burning will not occur.......the body is a complicated system its not about just injecting then hey presto everything is released and doing its thing....
> 
> as your graph showed and you misinterpreted FFA release is pretty much instant and peaks at approx 3hrs before it declines, you will not have insulin in the system for that long unless you are constantly eating, FFA's don't just go away when you eat carbs, again its not that simple.....
> 
> ...


Alright, I always learn something everyday  ... I read high IGF-1 levels play a role in fat loss too, it must aid in long term...

The graph was extracted from Professionalmuscle forums, can't remember if it was a Dat's post talking about FFA release. He was triying to clarify that you don't release FFA instantly, but it seems that in less than 1 hour FFA begin to release until 3-4h post injection, then it start to decline...

Yeah, I'm leaner because I'm using GH, but I was wondering if not consuming carbs in that first meal after jabbing could improve fat loss even more... it's common sense... however, I think the key is to keep stable blood sugar levels during the day so you can keep losing fat while gaining lean muscle, in my case I added some metformin AM and before bed, seems to be working.


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

EDIT: IGF-1 levels doesn't affect free fatty acids.

Extracted from M. Di Pasquale Book:

View attachment 163348


Now I can't understand why people experience fat loss while on igf-1 lr3... haha


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

FranJ said:


> EDIT: IGF-1 levels doesn't affect free fatty acids.
> 
> Extracted from M. Di Pasquale Book:
> 
> ...


who said they did? many people think they create muscle cells when on IGF-1LR3 but they don't as the synthetic version does not use the same pathways as natural IGF-1, all IGF-1LR3 gives is an extreme pump and its very good for injuries......

Dat is correct FFA's are not released instantly they are released through a space of time, as your graph shows they start to release within the first 10-20min then rise, so waiting 30min is a decent time to use these released FFAs through cardio, just to point out if you do not use the FFA's then they return to be deposited as fat stores......

if you did not eat carbs in your first meal, this could increase fat loss but it all depends on your insulin sensitivity and your calorific needs....


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## FranJ (Dec 8, 2012)

This is very interesting... I've never seen any fat loss on IGF-1 tbh... good pumps tho.

In closing, I'd like to know your opinion on this:

"With default lab values of IGF-1 114 to 492 my IGF-1 is 202 without taking HGH. Blood sample after 14 hours of taking HGH.

The next day I tried taking 4IU and make the test again. Number increased to 282. That wasn't so good, so I discussed with the doctor. He asked me if I eat meal before giving blood sample. Indeed, a whole breakfast.

So, I tried next day with 4IU without eating anything at all. Number was 340 !!!"

This is a post from a member of another board, some people claim that GH to IGF conversion in the liver needs carbs, while others say carbs/fats blunt this process. We know that in the long term GH usage will lead us to elevated IGF-1 levels because is accumulative, but in short term, could fasting affect those levels?

Nice thread Pscarb!


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

IGF-1 takes a while to raise, it does not spike as such...so i doubt it spikes that much....

Carbs and Fats do not blunt the conversion they blunt the release of natural GH pulses, if you are using synthetic GH then it does not matter if you eat carbs/fat as you are injecting GH that is all ready GH there is no natural release involved.


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## johnsosn (Aug 24, 2014)

Hi Pscarb.

Could I trouble you for your thoughts?

I am running Gentropin 9IU M/W/F following your thought process, but it occurred to me I might not be taking it at the correct time. I have been pinning in the morning because i thought it would help with protein synthesis throughout the day as I will be consuming protein.

Would it actually be better to take before bed, in your opinion?

My aim is lean mass and a little fat loss if possible.

Many thanks in advance.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

johnsosn said:


> Hi Pscarb.
> 
> Could I trouble you for your thoughts?
> 
> ...


taking it in the morning is not a bad thing, you won't get what you are trying to get with the protein synthesis though......i prefer to use it at night as i get better sleep from it but the difference is not huge when your looking at muscle and fat loss, unless you are doing cardio in the morning, if you are then i would split it am and before bed.


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## johnsosn (Aug 24, 2014)

Many thanks. Ill try before bed.


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