# 8x8 push pull or 10x10 GVT



## RMD

What would you say is most effective for muscle growth?

An 8x8 style of push pull and leg training

or a classic 10x10 German volume training


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## Hudson

Never heard of 8x8. Push pull legs is popular here, probably 3x8-10.

What do you mean when you say "classic" GVT? I've done a bit of GVT from time to time but only with the first exercise of the session, Bench, Rows or Squats, the rest of the session being 3x8. GVT seemed to harden me up but wouldn't say it added as much mass as 3x8.


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## RMD

Hudson said:


> Never heard of 8x8. Push pull legs is popular here, probably 3x8-10.
> 
> What do you mean when you say "classic" GVT? I've done a bit of GVT from time to time but only with the first exercise of the session, Bench, Rows or Squats, the rest of the session being 3x8. GVT seemed to harden me up but wouldn't say it added as much mass as 3x8.


So you found the push pull an legs 3x8-10 to be the best...

I have never done the push pull legs workout and as ive read on it it seems you use the 5x5 principle?

So instead of using the 5x5 training as that would be more strengh, i thought id switch it up to 8x8 instead as it should be more of a muscle building because of the rep range?


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## Bora

somone posted a good PPL routine last week..... this is it....not sure who posted it though

Monday - Pull

DEADLIFTS - 5x5

ROWS - 5x5

WIDE GRIP CHINS- 3xFailure

REAR DELT RAISES - 3x10

BICEP CURLS - 3x10-15

Wednesday - Push

BENCH PRESS 5x5

SHOULDER PRESS 5x5

DIPS - 3xfailure

SIDE LATERAL RAISES - 5x5

CGBP - 3x10-15

Friday - Legs

SQUATS - 5x5

LUNGES - 3x10

LEG EXTENSIONS - 3x10

SLDL or HAM CURLS - 3x15

CALVE RAISES - 3x15


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## RMD

bigforbday said:


> somone posted a good PPL routine last week..... this is it....not sure who posted it though
> 
> Monday - Pull
> 
> DEADLIFTS - 5x5
> 
> ROWS - 5x5
> 
> WIDE GRIP CHINS- 3xFailure
> 
> REAR DELT RAISES - 3x10
> 
> BICEP CURLS - 3x10-15
> 
> Wednesday - Push
> 
> BENCH PRESS 5x5
> 
> SHOULDER PRESS 5x5
> 
> DIPS - 3xfailure
> 
> SIDE LATERAL RAISES - 5x5
> 
> CGBP - 3x10-15
> 
> Friday - Legs
> 
> SQUATS - 5x5
> 
> LUNGES - 3x10
> 
> LEG EXTENSIONS - 3x10
> 
> SLDL or HAM CURLS - 3x15
> 
> CALVE RAISES - 3x15


Would that be more strengh though? or would you see muscle gains if on the right diet?


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## andyhuggins

RMD said:


> What would you say is most effective for muscle growth?
> 
> An 8x8 style of push pull and leg training
> 
> or a classic 10x10 German volume training


How long have you been training for?


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## RMD

andyhuggins said:


> How long have you been training for?


Its been full on for about 10 months, ive had a **** diet never had to much knowledge on it and i was trying to cut while tryna build muscle so i just went around in circles..Got good strengh gains for my weight but i think its time i start to see some good size. Need a certified program implemented with a good diet that will help me see some good gains.


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## big silver back

10x10 no question! :thumbup1:


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## RMD

big silver back said:


> 10x10 no question! :thumbup1:


Dont mean to question your experience bro just wanna know every detail, but what why wouldnt it be better if i changed the GTV to a 8x8 Wouldnt that be more beneficial?

I know it was made 10x10 for a reason i just wanna know what 10x10 stimilates that 8x8 wouldnt?


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## andyhuggins

RMD said:


> Dont mean to question your experience bro just wanna know every detail, but what why wouldnt it be better if i changed the GTV to a 8x8 Wouldnt that be more beneficial?
> 
> I know it was made 10x10 for a reason i just wanna know what 10x10 stimilates that 8x8 wouldnt?


Are you having a laugh mate. what do you know about training?


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## Bora

go with the PPL routine i posted, you will see gains with good diet, as of any routine, diet is key


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## RMD

andyhuggins said:


> Are you having a laugh mate. what do you know about training?


If i knew much i wouldnt be here asking stupid questions would i?


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## RMD

bigforbday said:


> go with the PPL routine i posted, you will see gains with good diet, as of any routine, diet is key


thanks bro


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## andyhuggins

Look at @bigsilverback why question his advice?


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## Hudson

I think it's a case of try it and see to some extent. I've had good gains from 5x5 (both strength and size) adding weight to the bar weekly but after 6-10 weeks I found progress stopped, you just can't keep banging the weight up forever. I change my sets/reps every few months when I feel progress is slowing, maybe it's partly in my head (the routine gets a bit boring) so I change between 3x8, 5x5 and less frequently 3x12 and GVT 10x10 (as I said previously this is only for my first exercise of the session tho) be careful of putting in too much volume, most agree it's counterproductive. In and out the gym in an hour, if it takes you longer than that, you're either doing too much or resting too long between sets.


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## RMD

andyhuggins said:


> Look at @bigsilverback why question his advice?


Im human, an i like to learn. If the reason he suggests that excercise program isnt given how will i understand the reason behind the choice? With out understanding the choice i will be working on a program i dont understand. If i dont understand the program i wont be pushing with knowledge of what im doing. If im pushing with no knowledge of what im doing i will be doing it incorrectly. If im doing it incorrectly then i wont see no gains. If i dont see no gains i will be back here asking the same stupid question.

AIGHTTTTTTTTT


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## andyhuggins

A lot of ifs? basically there are 3 ifs. If i dont get my training right, if i dont get my diet right and if i dont get my rest right. I WILL FAIL.


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## Bora

RMD said:


> Im human, an i like to learn. If the reason he suggests that excercise program isnt given how will i understand the reason behind the choice? With out understanding the choice i will be working on a program i dont understand. If i dont understand the program i wont be pushing with knowledge of what im doing. If im pushing with no knowledge of what im doing i will be doing it incorrectly. If im doing it incorrectly then i wont see no gains. If i dont see no gains i will be back here asking the same stupid question.
> 
> AIGHTTTTTTTTT


to be honest mate theres loadsssss of threads about routines, but as you said in your post your diet is sh!t,get ur diet in check, a PPL routine is good, but there is loads of others to, everyone who comments is trying to help, so dont give negative comments please, we all wana get bigger/fitter ... have a search on the forum bud


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## 2004mark

RMD said:


> I know it was made 10x10 for a reason i just wanna know what 10x10 stimilates that 8x8 wouldnt?


But you've just made this 8x8 thing up... so who will know lol

In short there won't be any difference between the two unless you're a real advanced trainer who understands his body perfectly.


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## RMD

Thanks to all, im messing round i dont mean no disrespect lol we cant take this online stuff too serious. But honestly all the help is appreciated, everything is a learning curve...


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## J1mmyc

Vince Gironda made the 6x6 and 8x8 training google it plenty of routines etc messed about with 6x6 on some exercises was ok 8x8 is way to much volume in my opinion i prefer 3x8-10 but different strokes for different folks and all that


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## big silver back

Always cycle your workouts it takes 6 weeks for your muscles to adapt to any one thing so change your routine every 6 weeks, there are so many types of workouts 5X5, FST 7, GVT, Full body workouts, push pull legs the list is endless! The truth is they have their place and all work, my advice would be give them all a try and give each one 100% and you'll make good gains. Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint enjoy your workouts and dont forget rome wasnt built in a day so things dont happen over night. :thumbup1:


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## RMD

big silver back said:


> Always cycle your workouts it takes 6 weeks for your muscles to adapt to any one thing so change your routine every 6 weeks, there are so many types of workouts 5X5, FST 7, GVT, Full body workouts, push pull legs the list is endless! The truth is they have their place and all work, my advice would be give them all a try and give each one 100% and you'll make good gains. Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint enjoy your workouts and dont forget rome wasnt built in a day so things dont happen over night. :thumbup1:


Thanks bro, best bit of advice I've heard.


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## MyronGainz

I'm doing a variant on the Layne Norton PHAT routine. Its awesome


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## Carbon-12

been on the german volume training for about 2 weeks now and really happy with it.. always sore!! chest and upper back r sore for at least 3 days!!


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