# Hypertrophy effectiveness?



## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

I have been scouring the internet for a week now, and a lot of what seems expericenced dedicated bodybuilders have just now seen the results they were expecting or anywhere close.

I have 9 weeks off now, and really want to make a go of it. I am just weary of doing this cycle, and seeing minimilistic gains at the end of it.

I understand the science, research and results behind Hancock and his hypertrophy methods but has anybody actually done a cycle using this method, and what real results did they achieve?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Not me!

It takes time to figure out if you are overtraining, undertraining, training right.

I think everyone is diffrent with diffrent goals, diffrent genetics, diffrent ages, diffrent diets, diffrent jobs with diffrent stress levels, diffrent sleep paterns, diffrent addictions, diffrent focus, diffrent types of muscle fibers and diffrent attitudes.

No one single thing can fit into all.

Trial and error I say. I have been lifting for 28 years and have not nailed it down to specifics. Look at my scare?

Some guys can take twice the amounts of gear and be fine. Some guys can take half the gear and gain twice as much muscle.

We are all diffrent and this all will take time no matter who is doing it.

Just relax and enjoy your learning and lifting experiances. It is a fun ride and you can decide.

No one is failing as long as they are trying. There will be a learning curve here no matter who you are.

Pick everyones brain and use what works for you. All else keep in the back for knowledge or toss it.

Dont get too frusterated for not knowing things or not having all the answers, this will come in time, trust me on this.

Mens muscles mature for strength at about 30-35. You are young and will be ok with some patience.


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

KK, please check the HST forums, there is a huge 20 page result thread, all the results are positives except for those who did the program wrong.

Also check the bodybuilding.com forums in the journal section, many many people are doing it there

Jon:cool:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Sychokid said:


> KK, please check the HST forums, there is a huge 20 page result thread, all the results are positives except for those who did the program wrong.
> 
> Also check the bodybuilding.com forums in the journal section, many many people are doing it there
> 
> Jon:cool:


I would try this. If it dosn't work then all you are out is some time.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i have checked the entire site relentlessly, you are right sychokid there are many plus. But a lot of what seems to be experienced bodybuilders to know the importance of diet and form etc etc are still getting marginal gains.

Now i guess it comes back to what Hackskii said and what Winger said. It works for some, but you will never know until you try it?

I have 9 weeks off now, still working night shifts but thats no problem, but i want to hit my body very hard and get some good gains, it would just be a shame to change my routine and not get as much gains.

stuff it, ill give it a shot and do everything properly. we will soon see the results in 8 weeks time if anything happens, and ill post a piccy.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Killerkeane said:


> i have checked the entire site relentlessly, you are right sychokid there are many plus. But a lot of what seems to be experienced bodybuilders to know the importance of diet and form etc etc are still getting marginal gains.
> 
> Now i guess it comes back to what Hackskii said and what Winger said. It works for some, but you will never know until you try it?
> 
> ...


There ya go. If you are making strong gains now then I wouldn't do it. If you are flat on your routine and need a change then go for it.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

what if i hammered the gym 5 days a week for 8 weeks doing the conventional individual mucle group every workout?

IM CONFUSED ARGGGGGG


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i told you i was going cold turkey cas i cant go down the gym for another 4 days.


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

what split do you train at the minute KK?


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i do 3 day split hitting chest+tri on monday

back+bi wednesday

legs+calve friday

but i need to rest for 12 days before beginning the hypertrophy, if i am going to do it all, im just too confused at the mo


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

here's my idea then - you've got the time by the sound of things so why not change to a 4 day split same as mine - I was far smaller than you at your age, in fact till i was abiut 26!

I've only really packed it on using my 4 day weeks which I started last November, going from 12.6 to 15 stone in just under 5 months, I've since cut down to around 14.

I train similar to what you do at the mo but have an extra day for shoulders/traps (i prefer to train traps before back in my week coz i hammer them with deads on back day).

So:

Mon: Shoulder/traps

Tue: Back/Bis

Wed: rest

Thurs: Chest/tris

Fri: Legs

Keep it dead simple, no fancy isolation rubbish, stick to Squats, Deads, Bench, Military press, Rows, Close grip bench for tris and DO NOT spend more than 4 sets training Biceps - otherwise I'll call you a fairy!!

Sounds like you know pretty much what you should eat - PWO consider getting Reflex Instant Mass though - it wipes the floor with everything else.

Just keep it simple mate, after about 3 weeks on that just mess about for a week - spend a day doing clean and jerks till you fall over, or breathing squats.

Above all - stick to it and enjoy it.

Oh, forget one rep max rubbish as well, if you can't move the weight at least 5 times, forget it, it's too heavy - don't worry what anyone else thinks. I was training rear delts with a 4kg dumbell on Monday, but I bet theres only a couple of people in my gym who can lift more on a deadlift!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I like it push pull


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

yeah, good advice there poweru

I think my diet is fundamentally perfect, i aim for 5000 calories but usually get to about 4000, eat 2g protein per lb of bodyweight. I cut the fat out, rely solely on good nutritious food. So my diet is good, thats no worries.

As far as my routine goes, i think the conventional 3/4 day split is perfect concentrating on compound exercises. I dont really know why i am condisering hypertrophy as i am making steady progress as it is anyway. i am considering doing my first cycle of d-bol, but people are advising me not too. Theres no real hurry for me to get into that anyway as yet, im quite happy to plot along naturally for the mo

I think the 4 day split will do at the moment, with 4000-4500 calories a day i should have no problem really.

I take the USN weight gain powder, this is really good seen some good results with this within the first couple of weeks, NOT cheap tho!

http://www.bodyshapersfitness.com/prodView.asp?idproduct=296

what about this for a routine?

Monday ( Chest+Tricep)

5 sets bench

5 sets Incline

4 sets dumbell work

3 sets flies

4 sets tricep pushdowns

4 sets dumbell kickbacks

2 sets dips

Tueday(Back+Biceps)

5 sets deadlifts

5 sets close grip pulldowns

5 sets lat pulldowns

3 sets Cable Rows

3 sets barbell curls

3 sets rope curls

3 sets dumbell concentration curls

Wednesday (Legs + Shoulders) LEGS IN THE MORNING

5 sets squats

5 sets leg press

4 sets leg ext

4 sets leg curls

8 sets standing calve raise

5 sets shoulder press (SHOULDERS IN THE EVENING)

5 sets lateral raises

5 sets Standing bent-over dumbbell laterals

6 sets shrugs

Thursday (Chest+Tricep)

5 sets bench

5 sets Incline

4 sets dumbell work

3 sets flies

4 sets tricep pushdowns

4 sets dumbell kickbacks

2 sets dips

Friday (Back+Biceps)

5 sets deadlifts

5 sets close grip pulldowns

5 sets lat pulldowns

3 sets Cable Rows

3 sets barbell curls

3 sets rope curls

3 sets dumbell concentration curls

Saturday(Legs + Shoulders) LEGS IN THE MORNING

5 sets squats

5 sets leg press

4 sets leg ext

4 sets leg curls

8 sets standing calve raise

5 sets shoulder press (SHOULDERS IN THE EVENING)

5 sets lateral raises

5 sets Standing bent-over dumbbell laterals

6 sets shrugs

Sunday (Rest DAY)

Bit heavy do you think? Risk of overtraining?


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

O my god that is overtraining looking back on it

i shouldnt of posted this, im gonna get flamed


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## powerU (Oct 22, 2003)

try cutting all that in half mate, how about

Mon: 3 sets MP, superset 3x lat raises with upright rows, 3 sets rear flys (light), 3 sets heavy shrugs.

Tue: 5xDeads, superset 3xwide pullup with 3 lat pulldown (light), 3x heavy bent over rows, 2 x barbell curls, 2 x hammer curls (sat down)

Thurs: 3 x heavy bench, 3 x incline dumbell, 3 x dips, superset 3 x close grip bench with 3 x skullcrush

Fri: 5 x squats, 3 x leg curl, 3 x leg ext, 3 x calf raise

That's it - if you can do more than that, you're not putting in enough effort.

I'm off to train chest now!


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, that is alot of stuff you are doing.

I think you are overdoing it by two times. But that is just me.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

nah nah Hackskii i want you guys advice, this is why i am posting it up, i want informaiton and advice bro! I trust you! You know much much more than me, christ you have what 20 years + bodybuilding experience behind you! Tell me, what i am doing wrong and ill change it.

I just will never have this amount of time to grow again, just want to make the most of it!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I dont have time at the moment but I can hook you up with a routine that I think will help you. Like I said I only do 6 sets for chest.


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

its not a life or death situation, give it 8 weeks and see what happens, you know its going to work better then something you made up on the spot

you only have to rest for 9 days not 12

Jon


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I feel that if you are going to hit the same muscle group twice a week then do diffrent exercises.

Like if you wanted to hit chest and tries on Mondays and Thursdays then you can do bench and dips on Mondays and Inclines and close grips on Thursdays.

Or a diffrent variation of push pull or just push just pull.

You are young and can get away with more overtraining than me.

I feel the older I get the less weightlifting I have to do. I should probably do more cardio if anything.

But why dont you have Jon give you a routine or post a routine here as an example, follow that for 8 weeks and see how it goes. If you like it then maybe more guys will come on board. If you dont then try something else.

I myself dont like spending hours in the gym. I like to get in and get out with high intensity. If you take longer than 20 minutes to do any exercise (besides legs) then you are either taking too much time between sets or just doing too many sets.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Balls in your court Jon  .


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

winger said:


> Balls in your court Jon  .


come play with them  

good idea hackskii, here is a routine thats simple and gives good results:

*Squat*

*
SLDL*

*
Bench Press*

*
Bent Row*

*
Military Press*

*
EZ Bar Curl*

*
Lying Tricep Extension*

*
Calf Raise*

*
Shrugs*

simple emough

Jon:cool:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

All in the same day?


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

hackskii said:


> All in the same day?


yep

volume can be kepted constant (for instance, 2 sets on everything throughout the whole cycle) or alot of people are doing it this way which I reccomend.

1 set during the 15s, 2 set during the 10s, and 3 sets during the 5s

Jon:cool:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Sychokid said:


> yep
> 
> volume can be kepted constant (for instance, 2 sets on everything throughout the whole cycle) or alot of people are doing it this way which I reccomend.
> 
> ...


To failure? Once a week? How many weeks for the 15s? 10s? 5s? This is a 8 week cycle?


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

winger said:


> To failure? Once a week? How many weeks for the 15s? 10s? 5s? This is a 8 week cycle?


no, the weights are incremented, there are 2 weeks for 15s/10s/5s.

yes, this is 8 weeks

for more info check out the website and my introduction  

Jon:cool:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Once a week?

Twice a week?

Or other exercises the other day of the week?


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Once a week?
> 
> Twice a week?
> 
> Or other exercises the other day of the week?


3x a week, its a mondat/wednesday/friday fullbody workout

there is an option where you can vary 2 of the workouts for instance:

monday - workout a

wednesday - workout b

friday - workout a

repeat

Jon:cool:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Sychokid said:


> no, the weights are incremented, there are 2 weeks for 15s/10s/5s.
> 
> yes, this is 8 weeks
> 
> ...


That comes out to 6 weeks. 2x15, 2x10, 2x5.

Link me to the link.


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

winger said:


> That comes out to 6 weeks. 2x15, 2x10, 2x5.
> 
> Link me to the link.


and 2 weeks of negatives

www.hypertrophy-specific.com

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2640 (read the HST part)

Jon:cool:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

With what kindof intensity?

Lets say I would get 12 reps, do I pick a lighter weight and do 12 lets say with that?

If I can get 15 reps do I stop at 10?


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

hackskii said:


> With what kindof intensity?
> 
> Lets say I would get 12 reps, do I pick a lighter weight and do 12 lets say with that?
> 
> If I can get 15 reps do I stop at 10?


it depends on the week your on, an what your maxes are.

Its all in the artice

Jon:cool:


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

go to http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Here is the meat and potatoes. 9 days off, then work the whole body 3 times a week.

Squats, leg curl, bench, chins, delts, shrugs, bis, tris, calves. Basic compound movements. 2 weeks 15 reps, 2 weeks 10 reps, 2 weeks 5 reps, 2 weeks negatives. 1 to 2 sets per excercise.

Determining weights for each workout: Assign your max weights to the final workout of each 2 week block. Then, in 5-10 pound increments, assign weights in decreasing fashion starting from the last workout working backward to the first. So, for example, if your 10 rep max is 200 pounds, assign 200 pounds for the last workout of the 10 rep block, then assign weights that build up to your max in 6 workouts. For our example, using 5 pound increments, the weights for the whole 2 week block would be 175,180,185,190,195, and 200. Do this for each exercise for each rep scheme.

Makes sense. All you are doing is setting the body up to make gains. All of us get in a hurry. We all have or are overtraining.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

makes perfect sense, well written too winger. I would definetly say most people overtrain, dam i am confused again you *!"£%!!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Killerkeane said:


> makes perfect sense, well written too winger. I would definetly say most people overtrain, dam i am confused again you *!"£%!!


I still love ya.


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## benjyman (May 16, 2004)

Sorry to but in but I wanted to add that I'm on my second cycle of hst and I'm loving it. I've certainly gained more on the first 8 week cycle than I did doing 8 weeks of a 3 day split (chest shoulders tri's , back bi's, legs) training each 1per 6 days.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

excellent benjy, got any before and after pics?


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

And some stats


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i think ill do HST when i go back to work, as it is faster and easier.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Killerkeane said:


> i think ill do HST when i go back to work, as it is faster and easier.


No kidding. It does make allot of sense. Kinda keeps the body guessing. Talk about progressive training!


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

i asked bill about it, he said it was a very good workout but only works for certain body types and testorone levels. But it is something you have to try, he advised me do it in a couple of years, so il have to consider it.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Killerkeane said:


> i asked bill about it, he said it was a very good workout but only works for certain body types and testorone levels. But it is something you have to try, he advised me do it in a couple of years, so il have to consider it.


I wish he would have gone into more detail.


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## Sychokid (Jun 29, 2004)

Killerkeane said:


> i asked bill about it, he said it was a very good workout but only works for certain body types and testorone levels. But it is something you have to try, he advised me do it in a couple of years, so il have to consider it.


whos bill? can he elaborate a bit more?

its aimed to work for everyone, its not specific to a certain body type, the principals are specific to muscle growth.

Testosterone levels are regulated by other reasons

nice results benjyman, do you post at the HST forums or any other forums?

Jon:cool:


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

well thats something he said to me a while ago, he didnt really go specific but ill have to ask him sometime this week.

I remembered his name also, Bill Young


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