# Going to failure



## scottish676 (Jun 30, 2009)

Is it necessary to go to failure in order to promote growth?

I train alone so some exercises it's difficult to go to failure and get some forced reps out

regards


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## Mikazagreat (Apr 10, 2009)

"Do every set as it was your last set" how about that ?

Why would ur muscle grow if u don't force it to do a job bigger than whut it can.

Should be complete failure everytime, but at least somewhere close.

be familiar with ur weights, and know which one to do how many reps and indicate total failure next rep.

And get a spotter in the last set maybe.


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## sam600 (Feb 4, 2008)

personally i try not to go to failure to often. if you work right up to your limet without going to failure but use progressive resistance over a long time period you will get stronger and as a result grow. I personnally find I recover faster and make quicker gains if i dont train to failure.

Sam


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## adlewar (Oct 14, 2008)

personally think its impossible to go to failure EVERY set!!! i choose one excersize per bodypart, per session to go forced, other excersizes are within my limits...

the other sets its always nice to have another forced,failed rep in the tank........

fine line between your limit, and overtraining...

what works for me might not work for you and visa versa........


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

I always go to failure apart from warm up sets. Im sure someone in your gym will spot you quickly if need be. If i train chest on my own i will ask someone to spot me for the pressing and then will be on my own for the flies and cables.


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

Depends on how your training is working for you now.

Some people use higher volume and don't train to failure, just the point before they fail. I don't think it is vital that you always train to failure.

I use a lower volume appraoch at the moment (4sets per bodypart) and I take each of these to failure. Depending on how I feel that day, I may take 2 of them beyond failure- rest-pause, static contractions and dropsets.

It does stress the CNS more this way so I allow for more rest in between sessions and have lowered the volume. Enjoying training like this for the moment.


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## ares1 (Apr 27, 2008)

TBH i find it really hard not training to failiure - Mentally i feel like i havent worked hard enough.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

CarbWhore said:


> TBH i find it really hard not training to failiure - Mentally i feel like i havent worked hard enough.


Same here. If i dont go to failure it just seems like a warm up or something!


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

No. It is not necessary to go to failure to promote muscle growth.


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

scottish676 said:


> Is it necessary to go to failure in order to promote growth?
> 
> I train alone so some exercises it's difficult to go to failure and get some forced reps out
> 
> regards


Well mate,safety first period.

You can finsh your muscle group with a drop set witch is another good and safe method.

Suppose you do 4 sets reps 1x12,1x10,1x8 for the last set keep the same weight as for the 8s and shoot some, propably you would do 6 take out some weight enough to shoot another 2 reps and go down and down untill you have done 15 or 20 reps (reps go on without a rest only the time to change weights).

Try it one of the best method for strength and mass.

:cool2:


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

Every set to failure,without fail


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## mattW (Jan 12, 2009)

training to complete failure by using forced reps is not good at all, I will try to find the study that showed forced reps leads to greater insulin resistance and as such caused a slower uptake of glycogen into the specific muscle trained.


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## IanStu (Apr 12, 2009)

My aim is always to go for failure...but in reality I sometimes don't, just have to listen to what my body is telling me..some days I just aint feeling it, other days everything seems to fall into place and I go for failure everytime!


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

mikex101 said:


> No. It is not necessary to go to failure to promote muscle growth.


You dont have to go to failure to make your muscles grow. But to maximise you potential you need to go to failure


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

so going to failure is not always necessary,but if we are talking reps,i'd say then rep ranges can either cause hypertrophy or strength gain or both!!!

hypertrophy comes from extensive reps...and this sparks the old debate of pump over amount of weight!!!

strength comes from very low reps,and one rep max's,causing little or no hypertrophy and gain in size!!!!

mid rep ranges may warrant both stimuli...

i will try find the brilliant article on rep ranges,hypertrophy and strength gain from weight training!!!!


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

willsey4 said:


> You dont have to go to failure to make your muscles grow. But to maximise you potential you need to go to failure


but that wasnt his question.

Im going to failure more now than i ever have, but only because my coach is forcing me to lift heavy, like +95% 1RM for reps. :thumb:


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## sam600 (Feb 4, 2008)

there's a few experianced powerlifters train at the same gym as myself and I rarely see them go to failure, if ever? I dont think ive ever seen One of the top lifters from the bdfpa go to failure? its worth noting though that although these guys are'nt small, they are definatly not body builders if you know what i mean? and their end goal is not to build muscle but rather to build strength.

Sam


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

mikex101 said:


> but that wasnt his question.
> 
> Im going to failure more now than i ever have, but only because my coach is forcing me to lift heavy, like +95% 1RM for reps. :thumb:


You do reps with 95% of your 1 rep max, some how i doubt that:rolleyes:

It depends what system you are following but no you certainly do not need to go to failure and you should not not go to failure every work out regardless of what program you follow.


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## Joshua (Aug 21, 2008)

mattW said:


> training to complete failure by using forced reps is not good at all, I will try to find the study that showed forced reps leads to greater insulin resistance and as such caused a slower uptake of glycogen into the specific muscle trained.


If you can find a copy of that study, I would be interested.

Thanks,

J


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## 1bpk (Jun 22, 2009)

willsey4 said:


> Same here. If i dont go to failure it just seems like a warm up or something!


Same, i need to be sweating my ass off when i've finished my workout

otherwise i feel like i havn't done anything


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2009)

1bpk said:


> Same, i need to be sweating my ass off when i've finished my workout
> 
> otherwise i feel like i havn't done anything


Ok, but what does sweating have to do with going to failure?

I sweat while i eat my breakfast are you suggesting i am taking my eating to failure?


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

Con said:


> Ok, but what does sweating have to do with going to failure?
> 
> I sweat while i eat my breakfast are you suggesting i am taking my eating to failure?


you proberly have been mate haha


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## Big Gunz (Jun 9, 2009)

^^ LOL. So true though, sweating has nothing to do with training to failure whatsoever.

I personally love to train to failure and like many people have said, if I don't then I feel like Ive not worked hard enough. But theres times when I cant train to failure because I dont have a spot all the time so i just go with the flow. The smaller exercises though I can go to failre without the fear of injury.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

Con said:


> Ok, but what does sweating have to do with going to failure?
> 
> I sweat while i eat my breakfast are you suggesting i am taking my eating to failure?


 :lol: ....i sweat while i'm squeezing out a heavy duty log on the kazi,i must be going to failure...thats my 1 rep max though:lol:...

yet to try my nuggetts for reps!!!

p.s here's that little bit of info i was talking about:

*Manipulating Reps for Gains in Size and Strength*

*
by Charles Poliquin*

Perhaps the most important loading parameter in designing exercise programs is not the number of sets, the tempo used, or even the specific exercises employed, but the number of repetitions selected.

It is clear that the most important variable to strength training is the amount of resistance used. The amount of weight determines the tension put on a muscle, and how long this tension is maintained determines the muscle's response. In fact, subtle manipulations can make the difference between increases in strength, increases in size and increases in endurance.

And the wrong manipulation can make the set, and indeed, the whole exercise session, worthless.

Obviously, the number of repetitions performed determines how much the athlete can lift, and given this fact, I have come up with 24 principles that can influence your decision, approximately half of which are presented in this article.

Whether you design programs for others or just yourself, many of these principles should help you in attaining your physique goals.

1. The number of reps done for a given time under tension dictates the training effect.

Training intensities can be altered in one of two ways: by having the athlete work at a higher percentage of his max (heavier weights), or moving the weight faster during the lifting, or concentric part of the lift.

While the number of reps an athlete performs also influences the training effect, it's mandatory that the speed used to execute the movement also be considered. It's too bad that very few researchers take into consideration the effects of different repetition speeds, and even worse that few coaches take tempo into consideration.

This is where the whole "super slow" theory of training falls flat. As far as sport is concerned, whoever produces the most amount of force in the shortest amount of time wins. By purposely training slow, you learn to become slow. Reducing the speed of movement just increases the time a muscle is under tension, not the intensity. As far as bodybuilding, however, it does not matter so much because functionality of the muscles is not crucial. In that regard, training slow for a brief period can lead to hypertrophy, especially if the trainee has been lifting explosively for a while.

Generally speaking, however, sets that subject the muscles to less than 20 seconds of time under tension build strength, while those that take from 40 to 60 seconds to complete cause hypertrophy.

2. MVC's (Maximal Voluntary Contractions) are essential to the strength building process.

To build size and strength, it is essential to incorporate maximal voluntary contractions. In short, this means recruiting as many motor units as possible to develop force.

Contrary to what you might assume, an MVC does not always equate to a 1RM load. Rather, an MVC could be the last rep of a 5 or 6RM load, where performing another rep is impossible.

Working with 1RM loads, though, enables an athlete to achieve maximal motor unit activation (MUA). Do this enough times, and neural adaptations and increased strength occur.

This is why the rest-pause training methodology is so valuable. For those of you unfamiliar with it, it involves using a 1RM load, which activates the maximal number of motor units. The athlete then racks the bar, removes 2-5% of the load, and then repeats the lift. The process is then repeated, for usually no more than 8 reps.

3. An athlete should use between 70 and 100% of maximum capacity to develop maximal strength.

While there is still some controversy as to the exact range of percentages, many leading experts in strength training believe that the best way to develop maximal strength is to use weights that allow the athlete to perform between 1 and 12 reps at 70 to 100% of the athlete's 1RM.

Some say, however, that anything below 75% is best suited for developing muscular endurance, while others put the number at 60%.

It is my experience, however, that the lower threshold is 70%, but beginners, and especially women, can often make progress using loads that are approximately 60% of 1RM.

4. The range in repetitions needed to develop strength and/or hypertrophy decreases with training age.

Training age, or the number of years the athlete has been training, influences the 1RM continuum.

While the average beginning weight trainee can often do 20 reps at 75% of maximum, that same trainee may do 10 reps at 75% of maximum after a year. If that same trainee is examined five years later, he may only do 4 reps at 75% of maximum.

Why is this important? Consider the athlete with a training age of one year who can bench press 12 reps at 140 pounds, which is 70% of his 1RM. Perhaps when this trainee has been training for four years, his new 1RM is 400 pounds. However, he may now only be able to complete 6 reps using 70% of his 1RM, which is 280 pounds.

Given that it is generally agreed upon by the strength training community that that 70% is the minimum threshold for strength development, it would not be a good idea to prescribe weights lower than 70%, or repetitions higher than 6, as the weight would be too light to promote gains in strength.

5. The 1RM continuum varies greatly among muscle groups.

If an athlete performs his 12RM (the amount of weight he can lift 12 times) in the bench press, he may only be working at 70% of maximum, but at 12RM in the leg curl, he may only be working at 57% of maximum.

The extreme is even more remarkable when you consider certain lower body movements that employ a high stretch-shortening cycle component, such as leg presses. Many athletes can do 65 reps on the leg press while using a weight that is 70% of their maximum!

6. The number of repetitions is the loading parameter that athletes adapt to the most quickly.

It's best to vary rep range prescriptions often because the body adapts very quickly to given rep ranges. In fact, the average athlete adapts to a given number of reps in six workouts. When this adaptation occurs, it's virtually pointless to continue the same program.

One method with which I have had great success it to prescribe a given rep bracket for 2 workouts, lower it by 1 rep for the next two workouts, and then lower it by 1 rep yet again for one or two workouts.

Here is an example of such a progression:

Workouts 1-2: 4 sets x 6-8

Workouts 3-4: 5 sets x 5-7

Workouts 5-6: 5 sets x 4-6

7. Elite athletes must pay attention to the specificity of contraction force.

Generally speaking, reps in the 1RM to 5RM range increase maximal strength with minimal gains in mass. Reps in the 8RM to 15RM range produce greater gains in hypertrophy, while reps between 6RM and 7RM produce equal changes in hypertrophy and strength.

However, when considering athletes who have several years of training experience, low repetitions (1-5) must be used with high loads (85% or higher) for both relative and absolute strength, while mid-repetitions (6-12) must be used with sub maximal loads (70-84%) for absolute strength gains. High repetitions should be combined with light loads for strength-endurance (less than 70%).

In other words, athletes with more years of experience can train with a broader range of repetitions.

Along the same lines, periodically "straying" into unfamiliar rep ranges can have positive training effects that are not consistent with the norm. For instance, in athletes seeking hypertrophy, periodically employing programs that use 1RM to 5RM ranges can lead to increases in muscle size in addition to strength.

8. Don't perform low reps too frequently.

Sport scientist Robert Roman has written extensively on the training of competitive lifters and he concluded that the most successful weightlifters tend to do most of their sets in the 3RM to 4RM range.

This observation was echoed by Canadian weightlifting coach Pierre Roy, who believes that the average rep range for athletes should be 3.

The take home point is that if an athlete does singles or doubles for too long, he will stagnate. This, of course, is especially true for athletes who seek hypertrophy.

9. Each muscle group or lift responds best to a specific average rep range.

Throughout my career, I have had the opportunity to analyze the training logs of the hundreds of athletes that I've coached. As such, it has become apparent that the optimal rep range should be specific to the muscle group or exercise chosen.

For instance, in the case of the elbow flexors, the best strength gains were obtained when no less than an average of 2.5 reps per set were performed, with a minimum total of 15 reps per workout.

Along the same lines, for hypertrophy purposes, triceps generally respond better to fewer reps than the biceps (because the triceps are generally more fast-twitch). Another example regards the hamstrings, which generally require fewer reps than quadriceps, or the gastrocs, which require fewer reps than the soleus.

10. The function of the muscle dictates the number of reps.

You have no doubt heard your physiology professor say, "Form dictates function." It is also my experience there are specific rep ranges that are more appropriate for certain muscle functions.

As an example, training the knee flexors (hamstrings) with sets of 12 results in little hypertrophy. However, when training the knee extensors, sets of up to 50 reps (leg press) can induce hypertrophy. This probably has to do with the fact that the knee flexors are used for explosive tasks, while the knee extensors are used primarily for maintaining posture and in the execution of certain stretch-shortening tasks.

11. Vary reps for the upper body more than the lower body.

Recent studies confirm that using programs that employ variation in rep ranges was more beneficial for the upper body than the lower body.

For example, if designing a program for the bench press, it's more important to vary the reps often than it is for movements like the squat and deadlift.

12. High-rep training can increase capillary density.

Studies have shown that sets of more than 20 reps can increase capillary density, and capillary dense muscle can eventually lead to hypertrophy when one resumes more traditional rep schemes.

One such study, performed in 1973, showed that as little as one high-rep workout was enough to double the amount of mitochondria in muscle cells.

I think this is one reason why cyclists and speed skaters have such large quadriceps - they expose the muscles to an extreme amount of time under tension, thus facilitating capillary growth and hypertrophy of lower threshold motor units.

However, from personal experience, it seems that the quads, deltoids and lats would benefit from this type of training more than other muscle groups.

13. Reps performed in one exercise may have a different effect than reps performed for another exercise, even though both movements are for the same body part.

When comparing squats against leg press, squats are far more effective in increasing leg strength and overall strength. However, there is some evidence to suggest that the leg press might result in more hypertrophy of the quadriceps. One study, at least, showed that for the same number of reps, the leg press resulted in a higher amount of Growth Hormone being produced than squats.

As possible evidence, the leg press is the exercise of choice when it comes to speed skating, and I have personally worked with speed skaters whose legs made Tom Platz's look like Woody Allen's.

While I am loathe to recommend leg presses instead of squats, I merely present it as an interesting discussion point.

There are many more principles regarding the manipulation of reps that I use in designing programs, but the ones I have presented here should put you light years ahead of the average weight training pack.

Editor's note: This article is a brief extract of some the material presented in the Poliquin International Certification Program Level Theory 1 Manual that can be purchased at www.CharlesPoliquin.net.


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## mattW (Jan 12, 2009)

Joshua said:


> If you can find a copy of that study, I would be interested.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> J



1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jul;279(1):E206-12. Links

Muscle damage impairs insulin stimulation of IRS-1, PI 3-kinase, and Akt-kinase in human skeletal muscle.Del Aguila LF, Krishnan RK, Ulbrecht JS, Farrell PA, Correll PH, Lang CH, Zierath JR, Kirwan JP.

Noll Physiological Research Center, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802, USA.

Physiological stress associated with muscle damage results in systemic insulin resistance. However, the mechanisms responsible for the insulin resistance are not known; therefore, the present study was conducted to elucidate the molecular mechanisms associated with insulin resistance after muscle damage. Muscle biopsies were obtained before (base) and at 1 h during a hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp (40 mU x kg(-1) x min(-1)) in eight young (age 24+/-1 yr) healthy sedentary (maximal O(2) consumption, 49.7+/-2.4 ml x kg(-1) x min(-1)) males before and 24 h after eccentric exercise (ECC)-induced muscle damage. To determine the role of cytokines in ECC-induced insulin resistance, venous blood samples were obtained before (control) and 24 h after ECC to evaluate ex vivo endotoxin-induced mononuclear cell secretion of tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha, interleukin (IL)-6, and IL-1beta. *Glucose disposal was 19% lower after ECC (P<0.05). Insulin-stimulated insulin receptor substrate (IRS)-1 tyrosine phosphorylation was 45% lower after ECC (P<0.05).* *Insulin-stimulated phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase, Akt (protein kinase * B) * serine phosphorylation, and Akt activity were reduced 34, 65, and 20%, respectively, after ECC (P < 0.05).* TNF-alpha, but not IL-6 or IL-1beta production, increased 2.4-fold 24 h after ECC (P<0.05). TNF-alpha production was positively correlated with reduced insulin action on PI 3-kinase (r = 0.77, P = 0.04). *In summary, the physiological stress associated with muscle damage impairs insulin stimulation of IRS-1, PI 3-kinase, and Akt-kinase, presumably leading to decreased insulin-mediated glucose uptake.* Although more research is needed on the potential role for TNF-alpha inhibition of insulin action, elevated TNF-alpha production after muscle damage may impair insulin signal transduction. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>



Done on rats<o></o>

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J Appl Physiol. 1996 Nov;81(5):1924-8. Links

Decreased insulin action on muscle glucose transport after eccentric contractions in rats.Asp S, Richter EA.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, August Krogh Institute, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace><st1:City>University of Copenhagen</st1:City>, <st1:country-region>Denmark</st1:country-region></st1lace>. [email protected]

We have recently shown that eccentric contractions (Ecc) of rat calf muscles cause muscle damage and decreased glycogen and glucose transporter GLUT-4 protein content in the white (WG) and red gastrocnemius (RG) but not in the soleus (S) (S. Asp, S. Kristiansen, and E. A. Richter. J. Appl. Physiol. 79: 1338-1345, 1995). To study whether these changes affect insulin action, hindlimbs were perfused at three different insulin concentrations (0, 200, and 20,000 microU/ml) 2 days after one-legged eccentric contractions of the calf muscles. Compared with control, basal glucose transport was slightly higher (P < 0.05) in Ecc-WG and -RG, whereas it was lower (P < 0.05) at both submaximal and maximal insulin concentrations in the Ecc-WG and at maximal concentrations in the Ecc-RG. In the Ecc-S, the glucose transport was unchanged in hindquarters perfused in the absence or presence of a submaximal stimulating concentration of insulin, whereas it was slightly (P < 0.05) higher during maximal insulin stimulation compared with control S. At the end of perfusion the glycogen concentrations were lower in both Ecc-gastrocnemius muscles compared with control muscles at all insulin concentrations. Fractional velocity of glycogen synthase increased similarly with increasing insulin concentrations in Ecc- and control WG and RG. *We conclude that insulin action on glucose transport but not glycogen synthase activity is impaired in perfused muscle exposed to prior eccentric contractions.* <o></o>



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J Appl Physiol. 1992 Jun;72(6):2197-202. Links

Eccentric exercise induces transient insulin resistance in healthy individuals.Kirwan JP, Hickner RC, Yarasheski KE, Kohrt WM, <st1:Street><st1:address>Wiethop BV</st1:address></st1:Street>, Holloszy JO.

Department of Internal Medicine, <st1lace><st1laceName>Washington</st1laceName> <st1laceType>University</st1laceType> <st1laceType>School</st1laceType></st1lace> of Medicine, <st1lace><st1:City>St. Louis</st1:City>, <st1:State>Missouri</st1:State> <st1ostalCode>63110</st1ostalCode></st1lace>.

Euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic clamps were performed on six healthy untrained individuals to determine whether exercise that induces muscle damage also results in insulin resistance. Clamps were performed 48 h after bouts of predominantly 1) eccentric exercise [30 min, downhill running, -17% grade, 60 +/- 2% maximal O2 consumption (VO2max)], 2) concentric exercise (30 min, cycle ergometry, 60 +/- 2% VO2max), or 3) without prior exercise. During the clamps, euglycemia was maintained at 90 mg/dl while insulin was infused at 30 mU.m-2.min-1 for 120 min. Hepatic glucose output (HGO) was determined using [6,6-2H]glucose. Eccentric exercise caused marked muscle soreness and significantly elevated creatine kinase levels (273 +/- 73, 92 +/- 27, 87 +/- 25 IU/l for the eccentric, concentric, and control conditions, respectively) 48 h after exercise. *Insulin-mediated glucose disposal rate was significantly impaired (P less than 0.05) during the clamp performed after eccentric exercise (3.47 +/- 0.51 mg.kg-1.min-1) compared with the clamps performed after concentric exercise (5.55 +/- 0.94 mg.kg-1.min-1)* or control conditions (5.48 +/- 1.0 mg.kg-1.min-1). HGO was not significantly different among conditions (0.77 +/- 0.26, 0.65 +/- 0.27, and 0.66 +/- 0.64 mg.kg-1.min-1 for the eccentric, concentric, and control clamps, respectively). *The insulin resistance observed after eccentric exercise could not be attributed to altered plasma cortisol*, glucagon, or catecholamine concentrations. Likewise, no differences were observed in serum free fatty acids, glycerol, lactate, beta-hydroxybutyrate, or alanine. *These results show that exercise that results in muscle damage, as reflected in muscle soreness and enzyme leakage, is followed by a period of insulin resistance.* <o></o>



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J Physiol. 1996 Aug 1;494 ( Pt 3):891-8. Links

Eccentric exercise decreases maximal insulin action in humans: muscle and systemic effects.Asp S, Daugaard JR, Kristiansen S, Kiens B, Richter EA.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, August Krogh Institute, <st1lace><st1:City>University of Copenhagen</st1:City>, <st1:country-region>Denmark</st1:country-region></st1lace>. [email protected]

1. Unaccustomed eccentric exercise decreases whole-body insulin action in humans. To study the effects of one-legged eccentric exercise on insulin action in muscle and systemically, the euglycaemic clamp technique combined with arterial and bilateral femoral venous catheterization was used. Seven subjects participated in two euglycaemic clamps, performed in random order. One clamp was preceded 2 days earlier by one-legged eccentric exercise (post-eccentric exercise clamp (PEC)) and one was without the prior exercise (control clamp (CC)). 2. During PEC the maximal insulin-stimulated glucose uptake over the eccentric thigh was marginally lower when compared with the control thigh, (11.9%, 64.6 +/- 10.3 vs. 73.3 +/- 10.2 mumol kg-1 min-1, P = 0.08), whereas no inter-thigh difference was observed at a submaximal insulin concentration. The glycogen concentration was lower in the eccentric thigh for all three clamp steps used (P < 0.05). The glucose transporter GLUT4 protein content was on average 39% lower (P < 0.05) in the eccentric thigh in the basal state, whereas the maximal activity of glycogen synthase was identical in the two thighs for all clamp steps. 3. The glucose infusion rate (GIR) necessary to maintain euglycaemia during maximal insulin stimulation was lower during PEC compared with CC (15.7%, 81.3 +/- 3.2 vs. 96.4 +/- 8.8 mumol kg-1 min-1, P < 0.05). 4. *Our data show that 2 days after unaccustomed eccentric exercise, muscle and whole-body insulin action is impaired at maximal but not submaximal concentrations.* The local effect cannot account for the whole-body effect, suggesting the release of a factor which decreases insulin responsiveness systemically.<o></o>



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Am J Physiol. 1996 Aug;271(2 Pt 2):R477-82. Links

Decreased muscle GLUT-4 and contraction-induced glucose transport after eccentric contractions.Kristiansen S, Asp S, Richter EA.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, August Krogh Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark.

Eccentric exercise causes muscle damage and decreased muscle glycogen and glucose transporter isoform (GLUT-4) protein content. We investigated whether the contraction-induced increase in skeletal muscle glucose transport and muscle performance is affected by prior eccentric contractions. The calf muscles from rats were stimulated for eccentric (EC) or concentric (CC) contractions or were passively stretched (ST). Muscles from unstimulated control (CT) rats were also studied. Two days later, all rats had their isolated hindlimbs perfused either at rest or during 15 min of isometric muscle contractions. EC rats had a significantly lower total GLUT-4 protein content in the white gastrocnemius (GW) muscle (55%) and red gastrocnemius (GR) muscle (34%) compared with muscle from the CT, ST, and CC rats. In contrast, GLUT-1 protein content was approximately twofold higher in the GW muscle in EC rats than in CT rats. In the GW and GR muscle, prior eccentric exercise decreased contraction-induced stimulation of glucose transport compared with CT, ST, and CC rats despite no difference in tension development and oxygen uptake among the groups. There was no change in total GLUT-4 content and glucose transport in the soleus (S) muscle among the four group. *It is concluded that the GLUT-4 and GLUT-1 protein contents in fast-twitch muscle are decreased and increased, respectively, 2 days after eccentric contractions. The functional consequence of these changes appears to be decreased contraction-induced increase in skeletal muscle glucose transport.*<o></o>



You can find more if you search on pubmed.


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## willsey4 (Apr 21, 2008)

mikex101 said:


> but that wasnt his question.
> 
> Im going to failure more now than i ever have, but only because my coach is forcing me to lift heavy, like +95% 1RM for reps. :thumb:


What are you on about? I know that wasnt his question as it was yours!

I answer his question above your reply on page 1!

95% of your 1 rep max for reps!!! You will struggle to get 2 reps!


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2009)

willsey4 said:


> What are you on about? I know that wasnt his question as it was yours!
> 
> I answer his question above your reply on page 1!
> 
> 95% of your 1 rep max for reps!!! You will struggle to get 2 reps!


Sorry wilsey, you must have me confused. I havnt asked a question to answer?

Cant see an answer from you either. I see you talking about your training

"I always go to failure" for example.

I answered the guys question, and agreed with you when you said it may be a good idea to maximise growth. Where's the beef?

Is 2 not reps then? could have sworn it more more than 1?

Here, have a rep! :beer:


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## Bale (Dec 16, 2008)

willsey4 said:


> Same here. If i dont go to failure it just seems like a warm up or something!


 :thumb: u got it! to failure for me too!


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## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

I push myself as hard as I can every workout.

Train hard or go home IMO.


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## Dsahna (May 25, 2009)

:thumb:


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## rich-k (Jul 17, 2009)

its either pain or do it again ten times harder the next set for me, if your struggling going to failure picture a number in your head and rep to that if you make it keep going, if you dont then you have pushed you self to failure thats what i used to do when i was training on my own.

start doing drop sets and muscle isolation these bring on pain, pain = muscle growth


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Going to failure is great for your ego but those people who have been training longer than a year or two will tell you it is not necessary, doesn't lead to more gains and will give you more injuries in the long run.

IMO going above failure (drop sets, forced reps etc) should be used on occassion but not during every training session.

Don't confuse training hard with going to failure though - you can fail with awful form and still get nothing out of it.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2009)

martin brown said:


> Going to failure is great for your ego but those people who have been training longer than a year or two will tell you it is not necessary, doesn't lead to more gains and will give you more injuries in the long run.
> 
> IMO going above failure (drop sets, forced reps etc) should be used on occassion but not during every training session.
> 
> Don't confuse training hard with going to failure though - you can fail with awful form and still get nothing out of it.


I had a feeling you would say this and i fully agree.

When i have done lots of extra techniques i usually see extra results for a very short period of time and then nothing.....

For on going size gains i simply do powerlifting style training that built my foundation but go a little higher with the reps.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

Con said:


> I had a feeling you would say this and i fully agree.
> 
> When i have done lots of extra techniques i usually see extra results for a very short period of time and then nothing.....
> 
> For on going size gains i simply do powerlifting style training that built my foundation but go a little higher with the reps.


Lol, someone had to 

Yes, I agree shock training tactics wiork very well but as you say the gains are short lived. The basics of training remain the same, just throw in a twist every so often to keep your body guessing.

I feel most people lack the ability to train hard in a straight forward mannor. Once you are able to push yourself without your technique breaking down and you can reach that final rep before musclular failure you will see very good progress without a spotter doing your reps for you or stripping weight off the bar.

This is what new trainers just don't seem to grasp. The secret isn't the exercise, routine or style. It's the execution.

As I'm sure you are aware Con, doing a set of 20 rep squats with your 22rep max is extremely difficult and taxing and promotes alot of growth. If done properly you don't need to then chuck a few plates off and try for more, or get you mate to help you up for a few more reps!!

M


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2009)

martin brown said:


> Lol, someone had to
> 
> Yes, I agree shock training tactics wiork very well but as you say the gains are short lived. The basics of training remain the same, just throw in a twist every so often to keep your body guessing.
> 
> ...


I agree.

Drop sets are not hard sure there is muscular pain from the lactic acid build up but the weight is getting lighter all the time so it is easier. The only thing i use them for regularly is for biceps because i dislike training them and rather do 1 drop set than 3 normal sets, that said i have found biceps to grow best from getting as much blood into them as possible unlike for some thing like back where pump is unimportant at least for my self.

Forced reps i just dont get on with after doing powerlifting for a few years the second some one touches the bar i give up. My mind remembers that once the bar is touched you have failed and its over, i havent been able to change my mind state about this.

I do like rest pause sets now and again.

20 rep squat with 22 rep max is ridiculasly hard in fact most people couldnt do it due to the lungs giving in first. Same goes for 20 rep deadlifts after doing a set of these i struggle to remain consicous for 5 minutes and then cant hit deadlifts again for 2-3 weeks. So its good for the odd blast but generally sticking to heavy weights 4-10 reps and not taking the set to failure keeps giving results while allowing the body to recover.

Training as a powerlifter i am sure you also find it funny that bodybuilders do not generally have a set routine and often just go in and wing it. It still blows my mind how many people do this pro's included and still manage to make gains i think it has to do with a high reliance on genetics and chemicals that any one succeeds this way.


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