# Post DNP Weight Loss



## jdsw (Apr 28, 2011)

Hi

I asked this question within another thread but thought it would be helpful to start a new one.

Could experienced users of DNP please post their final results roughly a month after completing their DNP cycle. I have read so many journals up until the last day of cycling but never really heard from anyone a month later with results if weight went back to original weight before starting DNP.

Cheers


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I lost roughly 10kg on DNP, around a month later I've put on 4.5kg.

I ate low cals for a few weeks after and bumped up my calories to 3500 last week. 2.5kg of the weight I've put on was last week, probably water and glycogen.

I have a journal if you want to dig it up.

I kept it updated from day 0-50.


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## jdsw (Apr 28, 2011)

Tom90

Thanks I will check it out


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

I lost 13 lbs in one week last year.

My mrs did some out of the same tub for 2 weeks and put 2 lbs on....... Im positive it degrades once the tub is opened, I used the same ammount in jan from the same tub for 3 weeks and only lost 6 lbs that time and didnt feel as warm


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## silver (Feb 18, 2010)

El Toro Mr [URL=UK98:3981786]UK98:3981786[/URL] said:


> I lost 13 lbs in one week last year.
> 
> My mrs did some out of the same tub for 2 weeks and put 2 lbs on....... Im positive it degrades once the tub is opened, I used the same ammount in jan from the same tub for 3 weeks and only lost 6 lbs that time and didnt feel as warm


i thought women shouldnt use dnp?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> I lost 13 lbs in one week last year.
> 
> My mrs did some out of the same tub for 2 weeks and put 2 lbs on....... Im positive it degrades once the tub is opened, I used the same ammount in jan from the same tub for 3 weeks and only lost 6 lbs that time and didnt feel as warm


When you used it in jan were you eating lower carb? If so that difference would be expected.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

dtlv said:


> When you used it in jan were you eating lower carb? If so that difference would be expected.


No I was doing everything exactly the same, didnt even feel half as warm, Ive herd a few ppl say that its not been as effective a few months later once the tub is opened and Im 100% sure this is the case, New tub for me next time if i decide to use again but tbh I dont really need it, probably best sticking to clen and T3 and BF levels now and I always eat clean high protein low carb diet nowadays....It works wonders for me


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> No I was doing everything exactly the same, didnt even feel half as warm, Ive herd a few ppl say that its not been as effective a few months later once the tub is opened and Im 100% sure this is the case, New tub for me next time if i decide to use again but tbh I dont really need it, probably best sticking to clen and T3 and BF levels now and I always eat clean high protein low carb diet nowadays....It works wonders for me


Have you found you can still add size as easily with low carb diets, providing the cals come from elsewhere?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> No I was doing everything exactly the same, didnt even feel half as warm, Ive herd a few ppl say that its not been as effective a few months later once the tub is opened and Im 100% sure this is the case, New tub for me next time if i decide to use again but tbh I dont really need it, probably best sticking to clen and T3 and BF levels now and I always eat clean high protein low carb diet nowadays....It works wonders for me


I just did some really geeky research and checked for stability data for dnp on a chemical database, and the info for degradation for capsules is not studied/listed, but it shouldn't degrade with exposure to air or atmospheric moisture, however is highly prone to degradation when in an alkaline environment... so if the dnp comes in cellulose caps then that might explain the degradation because cellulose is mildly alkaline. :thumbup1:


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

dtlv said:


> I just did some really geeky research and checked for stability data for dnp on a chemical database, and the info for degradation for capsules is not studied/listed, but it shouldn't degrade with exposure to air or atmospheric moisture, however is highly prone to degradation when in an alkaline environment... so if the dnp comes in cellulose caps then that might explain the degradation because cellulose is mildly alkaline. :thumbup1:


Just out of interest - but in real-life (as opposed to forum life) are you a scientist or researcher? I'd swear from your posts that you must have multiple P.h.d's in the sciences!


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

dtlv said:


> I just did some really geeky research and checked for stability data for dnp on a chemical database, and the info for degradation for capsules is not studied/listed, but it shouldn't degrade with exposure to air or atmospheric moisture, however is highly prone to degradation when in an alkaline environment... so if the dnp comes in cellulose caps then that might explain the degradation because cellulose is mildly alkaline. :thumbup1:


Good research mate, maybe thats it but whatever the explanation I defiantly felt 40% the strength at best...Its a strange one lol but i admit to been a tight a55 and I threw the last bit of the tub away so for me to do that says something lol


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

Dux said:


> Have you found you can still add size as easily with low carb diets, providing the cals come from elsewhere?


Hi mate I get my cals from high protein and keep anabolic through very high doses of bcaa's on nearly zero carbs i went from 23% bf to 7% in the last 10 months but more importantly I gained 9.lbs of LEAN muscle, This is a pic from this morning And Im still lookling nice and full  "Any excuse to get a pic up lol"


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Just out of interest - but in real-life (as opposed to forum life) are you a scientist or researcher? I'd swear from your posts that you must have multiple P.h.d's in the sciences!


I studied biochemistry, but didn't complete my degree... however am gonna go back to complete it eventually. I don't work in anything science related right now, but have worked analyzing clinical study data for pharmaceuticals.

I can be a real nerd for science stuff, but in non forum life am far less geeky - what you get of me on here is me trying to be the responsible mod and presenting info as accurately and in the most scientific terms as i can - I don't have either the physique or the bb'ing experience of the other mods, so that's what I try to offer and am asked to offer as my contribution.

If you met me out of context of the forum you probably would find me very different to expectations - am pretty laid back into meditation and that kind of thing, and talk more like a hippy than a scientist! :lol:


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

dtlv said:


> I studied biochemistry, but didn't complete my degree... however am gonna go back to complete it eventually. I don't work in anything science related right now, but have worked analyzing clinical study data for pharmaceuticals.
> 
> I can be a real nerd for science stuff, but in non forum life am far less geeky - what you get of me on here is me trying to be the responsible mod and presenting info as accurately and in the most scientific terms as i can - I don't have either the physique or the bb'ing experience of the other mods, so that's what I try to offer and am asked to offer as my contribution.
> 
> If you met me out of context of the forum you probably would find me very different to expectations - am pretty laid back into meditation and that kind of thing, and talk more like a hippy than a scientist! :lol:


Bit off topic..

If you were to run DNP, how would/do you run it? Low dose, but over a fairly long period of time? Higher dose but shorter durations? Low carb?

Thanks!


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

ah24 said:


> Bit off topic..
> 
> If you were to run DNP, how would/do you run it? Low dose, but over a fairly long period of time? Higher dose but shorter durations? Low carb?
> 
> Thanks!


High carb, low-ish dose longer period. I'd possibly run slin with it too, because dnp reduces insulin production.

High carb because carbs produce ATP at a faster rate than protein or fats, and since it's the rate of ATP production that determines the loss of energy to heat with dnp you should lose more energy to heat with higher carb, thus go though calories faster. DNP should be more effective on high carb diets, in theory anyway.

Low dose for long period to minimize the potential crisis effects (tachycardia, overheating etc) which seem to be mostly associated with higher doses above 200-250mg - also a very low dose to start with to test sensitivity and for any negative reaction. I'd always recommend using a low dose for the first 3-4 days just to test to see that you are ok with something like this.


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## bigmitch69 (May 14, 2008)

finlay04 said:


> i thought women shouldnt use dnp?


Can females use dnp?


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## Dux (Nov 29, 2011)

dtlv said:


> High carb, low-ish dose longer period. I'd possibly run slin with it too, because dnp reduces insulin production.
> 
> High carb because carbs produce ATP at a faster rate than protein or fats, and since it's the rate of ATP production that determines the loss of energy to heat with dnp you should lose more energy to heat with higher carb, thus go though calories faster. DNP should be more effective on high carb diets, in theory anyway.


Most people use it with low carb and get unbelievable results, so whilst the above makes perfect sense, does it translate to actual results? It would seem that better results than what are achieved through low carb probably wouldn't be possible, or would they?

Are we talking slow burning carbs to be used only? Is the heat increase/sweating more tolerable than from simple sugars?

I posted on another thread that on Saturday night I had a can of Red Bull whilst stood outside on the doors and within 10 minutes sweat was pouring out of me. Would 100g of oats in my morning shake have the same effect?

What's the situation regarding calories whilst using DNP, is a deficit still necessary or can you eat at maintainence or slightly above due to its potency?


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## Wlkir100 (Jul 14, 2011)

dtlv said:


> High carb, low-ish dose longer period. I'd possibly run slin with it too, because dnp reduces insulin production.
> 
> High carb because carbs produce ATP at a faster rate than protein or fats, and since it's the rate of ATP production that determines the loss of energy to heat with dnp you should lose more energy to heat with higher carb, thus go though calories faster. DNP should be more effective on high carb diets, in theory anyway.


Talking about biochemistry, cause it's near to my profession (last year medstud), too:

So these two points, I don't get:

1) Why Slin? Low Insulin levels on fat loss diet ? Perfect.

2) High carbs produce ATP on fast base, thats right ... but looking into biochemistry: DNP = works as ionophore in mitochondria membrane. Main amount of ATP is always produced in mitochondria (most significant pathway of ATP production, but there are some others without need of mitochondria - thats a ridicoulus small amount).

If your body does beta oxidation , Cori-Cycle or anyother pathway for using anyother tissue/energypool for ATP synthesis, because of carbohydrate lack - it always goes through mitochondria , ATP production via proton motion force and ATP-Synthase. Beta-Oxidation of free fatty acids gives you enough Acyl-Coa and some ketone rest and the energy will still come from ATP , cause FFAs are metabolized to NADH and FADH, who promote the proton motion force for ATP production in mitochondria.

So just in biochemical theory: It is nearly insignificant what diet you're on, as DNP works as ionophore/protonophore (to be exact) and eliminates/inhibits the proton motion force (achieved normally through NADH/FADH which comes from Glycolysis to a small part - mainly with oxygen on board from Krebs-Cycle) and therefore ATP-Synthase is unable to create ATP/Energy of my nutrients goes away as heat very inefficiently.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Dux said:


> Most people use it with low carb and get unbelievable results, so whilst the above makes perfect sense, does it translate to actual results? It would seem that better results than what are achieved through low carb probably wouldn't be possible, or would they?
> 
> Are we talking slow burning carbs to be used only? Is the heat increase/sweating more tolerable than from simple sugars?
> 
> ...


Wow, a lot of questions there!!

I can only theorize the answers based on limited knowledge, so I reserve the right to get some of this wrong!!!

The theory vs real life effects I of course don't know, but one pattern I tend to have noticed on forums where people talk about using it is most of the low carb users use it on a calorie controlled cut, whereas most of the higher carb users seem to use it on a bulk combined with many nights at the pub (loads of users arguing against the suggested dangers of it by giving examples of how they take it then go out on the p1ss, sniff charlie and eat kebabs, lol).

A general observation I have with most low carbers is they are more disciplined with diets and tend to be cutters, whereas higher carbers are more spread over bulking and cutting so I could only answer the effectiveness question if able to compare two or more isocaloric equally tight diets with differing carb intakes as the only variable with the same DNP dosage protocol.

As for whether it works on a bulk, yes it does and that won't affect it's potency... but since a bulk means excess calories, if your calorie intake is high enough then despite losing extra kcals to heat and not storage you still might find yourself not to be in a calorie deficit despite the increased metabolic effect of the DNP, so in that sense rather than make you actually reduce total fat mass on a bulk, it would rather just reduce the rate of fat gain (dose and degree of kcal excess dependent of course).

For type of carbs not sure it matters - certainly can't think of anything.

My question about the low carber observation is that since they definitely produce less heat (very commonly observed phenomenon), if the DNP works just as well or better in that situation than higher carb then where does the excess energy go? DNP is basically an uncoupling protein, and the mode of action by which that causes weight loss is solely (so i understand it) by converting more chemical energy to heat, so that question needs answering before other factors for the successful weight loss can be ruled out.


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## El Toro Mr UK98 (Nov 11, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Wow, a lot of questions there!!
> 
> I can only theorize the answers based on limited knowledge, so I reserve the right to get some of this wrong!!!
> 
> ...


This makes sense to me now, come to think of it the second time i did it I was taking insulin too and having more carbs post workout as the case.

Maybe it stopped me gaining fat from the slin but didnt get the full cut effect I had the first time.

But still I didnt feel it to be as strong in the fact of heat, sides wise, like I say id guess at 40% as effective second time round out of first tub


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

El Toro Mr UK98 said:


> This makes sense to me now, come to think of it the second time i did it I was taking insulin too and having more carbs post workout as the case.
> 
> Maybe it stopped me gaining fat from the slin but didnt get the full cut effect I had the first time.
> 
> But still I didnt feel it to be as strong in the fact of heat, sides wise, like I say id guess at 40% as effective second time round out of first tub


It may be that combined with some degradation of the dnp in the supps... you seem pretty objective in observations to me on most things, so if you noticed a big difference I don't doubt there was one.

I'm theorizing a lot here on this topic, partly to try and get my own head around all the factors at play. I do think though that comparing using it with a different carb intake and with or without slin would make a difference though.


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## Wlkir100 (Jul 14, 2011)

@dtlv: Hey mate, would you respond to my posting (10:53 AM) , think you overread it and i really would love to read your intepretation of this, cause it's not that easy in this case...

Just in a theoretical, biochemical way  Thanks


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Wlkir100 said:


> Talking about biochemistry, cause it's near to my profession (last year medstud), too:
> 
> So these two points, I don't get:
> 
> ...


Hey buddy, will have a go - as said not my area really, just trying to get my head around it.

Slin because dnp (apparently) is also catabolic to muscle tissue due to the very low insulin production from where it limits the function of pancreatic beta cells (carbs equal fast ATP production and increased ATP-ADP ratio, and this then stimulates insulin secretion from beta cells via a chain of signals, but DNP prevents this change in ATP-ADP ratio happening) - that then supposedly results in lesser transport of aminos into muscles and greater deamination of aminos in the liver.

Bodybuilders want to preserve muscle mass on a cut, not just burn off the fat. If the claim of catabolism were to turn out to be inaccurate (have only seen it theorized, clinical trials are absent) then that would reduce the need.

A second reason for the slin is to prevent hyperglyceamia which is a clinically documented medical side effect with dnp use.

As for the significance of diet, on paper I see what you mean and this was going around in my head, but a fairly consistent observation between high carb and low carb users is the perceived difference in body heat - I was reaching for an explanation for that (if significantly less heat is produced on low carb from resistance in the mitochondrial membrane, where is the energy wasted going, since that is what uncoupling proteins do?), and my idea was all I can so far come up with - as said, I reserve the right to be wrong!

I also do not know if DNP has wider reaching effects to the efficiency of electron transfer during specific parts of the cori or krebs cycle - I don't know enough about uncoupling proteins like DNP to rule that out.


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

6weeks apart. dropped to 95kg after 5weeks then jamp up 2kg the last week.

107kg



97kg-


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

excuse the face & sunburn


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## MunchieBites (Jan 14, 2013)

bigmitch69 said:


> Can females use dnp?


yep ive used it and will do again BUT they have to watch out for possible cataracts- take vit c every day and watch eyesight

great for me lost 10lbs and havent put any on- finish cycle 3 weeks ago


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## Wlkir100 (Jul 14, 2011)

dtlv said:


> Hey buddy, will have a go - as said not my area really, just trying to get my head around it.
> 
> Slin because dnp (apparently) is also catabolic to muscle tissue due to the very low insulin production from where it limits the function of pancreatic beta cells (carbs equal fast ATP production and increased ATP-ADP ratio, and this then stimulates insulin secretion from beta cells via a chain of signals, but DNP prevents this change in ATP-ADP ratio happening) - that then supposedly results in lesser transport of aminos into muscles and greater deamination of aminos in the liver.
> 
> ...


Good answer mate, thats what I've expected, thanks!

The Slin-Factor and ATP/ADP ratio in pancreatic cells: I've read this, too a lot of times. And by the time I've got very experienced with DNP use and the idea of it sounds very good to me - almost revolutionary, just think of following diet with DNP/Insuline or/and metformin:

CKD: Style:

Day 1: Priming keto mode: very lowcarb, good Dose of DNP (exp dependent i.e. 400mg) ,along with metformin and resistance training

Day 2-5: Fat-loss mode: low dose DNP (200mg), low carb (under under 80g), resistance training.

Day 6: morning: muscle-gylcogen depletion training + DNP dose + Metformin 1g + Slin + an ass of carbs (by an ass i mean an ass, something like 800 gr minimum).

Day 7: Rest-Day: no dnp + no insulin + no calory deficit ... healthy diet with mod carbs. In late Evening Gym (if possible)!

This would be a hell of cutting/recomp cycle if it would work! But I don't know, I personally never got hyperglycaemic on DNP - maybe cause I'm potentially always physically active (push my self with caffeine, sibutramine, and some mild stims) and never do a really high carb diet during week (just on weekends if). During lower-carb week i tend to be hypoglycaemic with dnp (or maybe just very exhausted because of ****ed up ATP/ADP ratio - but really take meassures of blood sugar, never went hyper... always tendency to very low bloodsugars , even on dnp - but never messeasured on hiogh carb days and dnp).

Ah and just another famous thing, but which I belive to be completly true:

DNP use in PCT! Hell yes, eat enough calories, take it low dose, limit your catabolic T3 , keep gains, while keeping fat away - is the real deal for me!

@JANIKvonD : lovely results! Which dose was yours? And any gear there  ?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

MunchieBites said:


> yep ive used it and will do again *BUT they have to watch out for possible cataracts- take vit c every day and watch eyesight*
> 
> great for me lost 10lbs and havent put any on- finish cycle 3 weeks ago


Good point - cataracts are listed as a fairly common side effect after DNP use form the old records before it was banned from over the counter sales years ago, and the research suggests that high vitamin c intake is a strong preventative against that.

Btw, I have read a few places that DNP 'should not be used by women' but never seen an explanation as to why - can anyone explain it?


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## JANIKvonD (Jul 7, 2011)

actually had a week off in the middle & a few w.e's off from thurs - monday. pretty much ran 400mg all the way through with the odd jump upto 600mg for a couple days (harsh as fuk).

gear-

week 1-4

- 1ml eod ProChem 1rip

- 1ml pc TT400 EW

-100mcg T3 e2d

- 4g vitC ed

- minti V etc ed

-DNP 400MG ED

week 2-6

-2ml eod ProChem 1rip

-100mg t3 e2d

-vitC/multiV etc etc

-DNP 400MG ED

@Wlkir100


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Wlkir100 said:


> Good answer mate, thats what I've expected, thanks!
> 
> The Slin-Factor and ATP/ADP ratio in pancreatic cells: I've read this, too a lot of times. And by the time I've got very experienced with DNP use and the idea of it sounds very good to me - almost revolutionary, just think of following diet with DNP/Insuline or/and metformin:
> 
> ...


Ooh I like your thinking there, nice ideas!!! Have some rep


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## MunchieBites (Jan 14, 2013)

dtlv said:


> Good point - cataracts are listed as a fairly common side effect after DNP use form the old records before it was banned from over the counter sales years ago, and the research suggests that high vitamin c intake is a strong preventative against that.
> 
> Btw, I have read a few places that DNP 'should not be used by women' but never seen an explanation as to why - can anyone explain it?


There was a lot of scaremongering going around about DNP 'burning eggs'

there is a study and aus posted something but the long and short of it is- it doesnt.

HOwever in the 100,000 people study it was ONLY females who had cataracts develop- so maybe thats why.

Well cant say if my eggs are OK but DNP worked for me and i'll happily use again


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