# Dead lift rep range



## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Maybe some of you experienced heavy dead lifters can advise me about rep ranges for PB's

Following my success on the SS routine, my dead lift has come on really we and tonight saw another PB at 152.5 kg which I'm really proud of having never done a dead lift before August.

However, since about 140kg onwards, I've been noticing I'm getting far too close to comfort to blacking out on the last rep or just after. On quite a few occasions I've remained concious, but not had any vision for a few seconds.

I'm taking deep breaths at the start and three deep quick gasps at the top of each rep etc, but no matter what I do, at my current 'gun to the head save your life or else' effort, 5 reps seems a couple too many.

Tonight I started to black out at the top of the last rep where everything went quiet, my vision went black and white and I started to feel numb as I lowered the bar with reduced control, then slumped over it gasping for a couple of minutes.

Is this normal?

Part of me thinks it might be wise to reduce the PB work set down to 3 reps?

Or am I being a wuss?

It I'm being a wuss, what can I do to prevent getting this close to blacking out on the last rep - tonight was horrible as I rally felt 'that' close to literally dropping the bar and keeling over.


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

You should not be near blacking out at all.

You don't mention if you're lifting belt-less or not, might be time to loosen a little for anything over 3 reps, or start getting into the habit of resetting the weight each rep, so you can breathe, rather than touch and go, which I assume you're doing)

Best of luck


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

no its not normal - do you lift alone mate?


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

I lift in a gym so could be rescued if I came a cropper.

I use a 4" all the way round RDX and yes, I have it pretty tight as I find it helps with the intra-abdominal pressure and takes the load off my lower back when I can really 'push' into it.

I don't touch and go - I go down steadily, touch, pause, pull.

Mark Rippetoe advised me against touch and go sighting it was using the rebound of the floor and rubber weight to assist getting the weight up, so to avoid any possible 'cheating', to let the weight rest half a second before the next rep, which is what I do.

Could the belt be too tight? I kind of use it as a crutch for my back and would fear loosening it.

To be honest, the blacking out 'feels' like a simple case of absolute maximum balls to the wall effort for a certain length of time where all the blood rushes to my muscles leaving insufficient for my head.

Or am I doing it wrong (using the words of my ex)


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

I personally think it might be your belt being too tight and your breathing.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

UkWardy said:


> I personally think it might be your belt being too tight and your breathing.


I'll try a notch looser - I do have to lie down to get it done and undone.

How should I be breathing?

I currently take 3 fast, deep gasps at the top of each rep.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Aside from the blacking out issue - is 5 reps still optimal for the PB work set as per SS, or do you guys do less reps for PB work sets?


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> I'll try a notch looser - I do have to lie down to get it done and undone.
> 
> How should I be breathing?
> 
> I currently take 3 fast, deep gasps at the top of each rep.


That is way too tight mate, I personally think you'd be doing more damage than good as your core cannot tighten and force the belt out.

As fod breathing I just breath in then breath out steadily as I try and lock my back up. Always accidently hold my breath at the bottom of the lift though :sad:


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

UkWardy said:


> That is way too tight mate, I personally think you'd be doing more damage than good as your core cannot tighten and force the belt out.
> 
> As fod breathing I just breath in then breath out steadily as I try and lock my back up. Always accidently hold my breath at the bottom of the lift though :sad:


Fiar play - I'll loosen a notch and see what difference it makes.

How about the rep range question? 5 too many for PB work set?


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Fiar play - I'll loosen a notch and see what difference it makes.
> 
> How about the rep range question? 5 too many for PB work set?


Unsure tbh mate, here's how my deadlifting goes.

Warmups

60kg x5

100kg x5

Working Sets

140kg x5

160kg x5

180kg x3

190kg x3

205kg x1 (PB)

Hope it helps even if a little


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## scot-ish (Oct 21, 2014)

I usually finish with 2 reps if I'm going for a pb- which is 230 @84kg bw.

Since a back injury I wear a belt, but wouldn't even think about lying down to put it on, you mus be restricting your capacity and only getting half breaths


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Definitely loosen that belt, your stomach is supposed to push against the belt, not be wrapped up tight like a vintage corset.

5 reps is perfect mate.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

belt is far too tight .

5 is fine and you should rarely go less than 2 reps .


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## bigchickenlover (Jul 16, 2013)

Do you need a belt? ive never deadlifted with a belt. It sounds like your rushing through to me aswell you should be calmly breathing, inhale exhale plenty of deep breaths before and calmly breathe after.

Lesson the weight I only go heavy twice a month max out probably once every 3 months 5 X 5 and 3 X 3 are great ways to get your strength up. You should be taking around 3-5 minutes rest in-between sets aswell.


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

When deadlifting I take a few long and deep breaths in, with the last being the biggest breath until my lungs are completely full and as soon as I stop breathing in is when I unleash the power(as it were)

I usually only deadlift very heavy for few reps so by the time I lock out I'm more than ready to exhale the contents of my lungs, I usually sound like a bus when it makes that loud PSSSSSSST noise

I lower it quite quickly but take my massive breath in on the way down and same again, once lungs are full start pulling

I've never really blacked out either, maybe felt a slight bit faint every once in a while


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## Aestheticx (Jan 31, 2015)

Im was the same as you mate, and unfortunately i only found one way of fixing it... and its not as fun as deadlifting li tell you that.. its cardio. Gotta increase your V02 max and increase your circulation so more oxygen is being supplied to muscle and brain!

I hate doing cardio but i increased my "seeing stars" rep range from 5 to about 8 with just a bit extra cardio and found i was breathing slightly easier.


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## Aestheticx (Jan 31, 2015)

Aestheticx said:


> Im was the same as you mate, and unfortunately i only found one way of fixing it... and its not as fun as deadlifting li tell you that.. its cardio. Gotta increase your V02 max and increase your circulation so more oxygen is being supplied to muscle and brain!
> 
> I hate doing cardio but i increased my "seeing stars" rep range from 5 to about 8 with just a bit extra cardio and found i was breathing slightly easier.


On the up side, it might also even allow you to put a bit more weight on the bar!


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Fcuk the belt off. You've only been deadlifting a few months and you have already stated you use it as 'a crutch', fcuk that, build your core and lower back strength up without it.


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## theBEAST1990 (Aug 4, 2012)

You need to better your conditioning. Do some HIIT.


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## John. (Jun 24, 2013)

You should be holding your breath (i.e. the valsalva maneuver) but the breath should be held in your lungs not in your head.

That sort of pressure in your head will cause blacking out and dizziness for sure. Loosen the belt and try to push against it with your breath.


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

as said ... either belt is to tight ... not breathing properly


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.

I box twice a week and can go 6 rounds at high intensity no problem, as well as being happy to sit on the cross trainer for 45 mins on level 17 at 80 rpm constantly and burn 950 cals in the process with a heart rate between 180-190 for the last 20 mins or so. I can also run 5k in approx 27 mins so I feel my cardio fitness isn't the problem.

My other issue is I'm 6'4" and that is made up of a very long back - without the belt my lower back screams the next couple of days, even at sub 100kg weight. Same with squatting. The belt solves the problem instantly, but I take the point it may be too tight.

I take sharp quick gasps at the top of each rep because my body is under so much strain holding the weight, there's no way I'm 'relaxed' enough to 'breath normally'.

To me, when I'm at PB weight, I'm absolutely at the outer physical limits of what my body will respond to - absolute balls to the wall save your life intensity, where even the first rep is 50/50 dice with failure.... I then get 5 out at that level of 'seems impossible' - and that's when I start to black out - mind bending intensity, but for what seems like too long.

But I trust that's just called 'trying hard' ?

I'll loosen the belt and try again.


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Maybe some of you experienced heavy dead lifters can advise me about rep ranges for PB's
> 
> Following my success on the SS routine, my dead lift has come on really we and tonight saw another PB at 152.5 kg which I'm really proud of having never done a dead lift before August.
> 
> ...


i know you pain...'Cluster sets' mate. basically just doing single reps with short rest periods. keeps technique from breaking down as you fatigue. deads for reps are rotten, if your goals are strength related then clusters are a perfect choice imo. ive shared this video on here recently but i think its worth sharing again. i for one wont be doing reps for heavy work anymore, clusters are just more effective.


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

since a few people have mention breathing ill just say that when doing heavy work/ max lifts, you DO NOT breath in and out like you doing a set of 10. you should be filling your belly with air and pushing your abs out against you power belt and holding that breath. if anyone thinks im talking crap, google how to use a powerlifting belt.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

gaz90 said:


> since a few people have mention breathing ill just say that when doing heavy work/ max lifts, you DO NOT breath in and out like you doing a set of 10. you should be filling your belly with air and pushing your abs out against you power belt and holding that breath. if anyone thinks im talking crap, google how to use a powerlifting belt.


That's exactly what I do, few deep breaths to fill my blood with oxygen whilst bent over the bar, then one big deep breath which I force into my lower abdomen which presses heavily into my belt which I then feel supporting my lower back, then whilst holding that breath, pull to save my life, then once extended at the top, it;s three sharp "ish-ish-ish" breaths, then lower the weight to the floor. Once on he floor, deep breath like before, then pull again.... and so on - hence there is a 1-2 second pause between each rep where I take another deep breath that I push into my belly.

I'm obviously doing something wrong, but to me, if feels like maximum intensity for too long and nothing more, but it can't be, because other manage it.

I'll have a look at the youtube video now... cheers.

For the record, my goals from dead lifting is to be able to lift as much weight as I can and build a thick, solid, dense back where when I turn side ways, there is maximum distance between the rear of my back and the front of my pecs - just massive thickness.


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> That's exactly what I do, few deep breaths to fill my blood with oxygen whilst bent over the bar, then one big deep breath which I force into my lower abdomen which presses heavily into my belt which I then feel supporting my lower back, then whilst holding that breath, pull to save my life, then once extended at the top, it;s three sharp "ish-ish-ish" breaths, then lower the weight to the floor. Once on he floor, deep breath like before, then pull again.... and so on - hence there is a 1-2 second pause between each rep where I take another deep breath that I push into my belly.
> 
> I'm obviously doing something wrong, but to me, if feels like maximum intensity for too long and nothing more, but it can't be, because other manage it.
> 
> ...


I dont think you're doing anything wrong, thats just deadlifts. there would be something wrong if you didnt feel like that! im the same when i rep out. but again, cluster sets are the way forward.

a note on back size, after your heavy deads try some snatch grip deads for reps or even RDLs with a snatch grip. when i do them i only go as far as my little finger on the rings, like a wide bench grip (wide for me anyway), but it does the job very well


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

gaz90 said:


> i know you pain...'Cluster sets' mate. basically just doing single reps with short rest periods. keeps technique from breaking down as you fatigue. deads for reps are rotten, if your goals are strength related then clusters are a perfect choice imo. ive shared this video on here recently but i think its worth sharing again. i for one wont be doing reps for heavy work anymore, clusters are just more effective.


Now that I like the sound of.

Would it work for squats?


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Now that I like the sound of.
> 
> Would it work for squats?


It'll work great for any compound exercise when the goal is strength related. squats, bench pressing, military press all of them


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

MRSTRONG said:


> belt is far too tight .
> 
> 5 is fine and you should rarely go less than 2 reps .


This!


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

gaz90 said:


> I dont think you're doing anything wrong, thats just deadlifts. there would be something wrong if you didnt feel like that! im the same when i rep out. but again, cluster sets are the way forward.
> 
> a note on back size, after your heavy deads try some snatch grip deads for reps or even RDLs with a snatch grip. when i do them i only go as far as my little finger on the rings, like a wide bench grip (wide for me anyway), but it does the job very well


Last night I experimented with an old favourite that I'd not done for 15 years.... I did some one arm bent over dumbell rows - you know, one knee and one hand on a bench, pulling the dumbell from the floor to beside your hip. I was exhausted from the dead lifting, but managed 3 sets of 10 with 35kg DBs and felt a great pump in my lats and traps. I'd forgotten how much I like them.


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## gaz90 (Jun 19, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> Last night I experimented with an old favourite that I'd not done for 15 years.... I did some one arm bent over dumbell rows - you know, one knee and one hand on a bench, pulling the dumbell from the floor to beside your hip. I was exhausted from the dead lifting, but managed 3 sets of 10 with 35kg DBs and felt a great pump in my lats and traps. I'd forgotten how much I like them.


big fan of those too, i cant much much from the barbell row. for upper back/ traps i like do band pull aparts, face pulls and dumbbell cleans -these look sloppy and a bit daft but a few hard sets of 15 and my upper back is thrashed


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

gaz90 said:


> big fan of those too, i cant much much from the barbell row. for upper back/ traps i like do band pull aparts, face pulls and dumbbell cleans -these look sloppy and a bit daft but a few hard sets of 15 and my upper back is thrashed


 @Kristina got me into face pulls and done correctly (thanks to her advice and tuition), I sure do feel the burn 'round back'.

My back routine generally consists of (split between two workouts) Deads, Pendlay rows, one arm DB rows, face pulls and occasional nautilus machine pull overs.

I try and get some chins in there but am normally too fatigued to make them meaningful.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

UPDATE:

Loosened my belt a notch and aimed for 3 reps at a 155 kg PB.

Much better - I still felt a little light headed after the 3rd rep despite lots of deep breathing at the top of each rep, but it was definitely better than doing 5 with a tight belt.

It'll allow me to increase the weight more as well.

My short term goal is to get to 180kg - the magic 4 plates, then maybe look at increasing the rep range back to 5 once I'm there.... maybe....


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Loosened my belt a notch and aimed for 3 reps at a 155 kg PB.
> 
> ...


I said this to you last time.. but again:

Your work ethic makes me wet. I love seeing people take this sh1t seriously, keep up the good work.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I said this to you last time.. but again:
> 
> Your work ethic makes me wet. I love seeing people take this sh1t seriously, keep up the good work.


That means a lot, thanks.

I'm rubbish at so many things in life that I try, but one thing I have is focus, determination and a 6'4" frame - I'm trying my best to make the most of those attributes, and lifting heavy sh1t off the floor is one of those areas that is black or white - there's no grey area - you can lift it or you can't. On or off, yes or no, binary.... etc. There's nobody else that can interfere or leave stuff open to negotiation or interpretation or perception like so many other areas of our lives. It's the one area I feel in control of and I MUST exploit that as far as I possibly can.

Hope that makes sense.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> That means a lot, thanks.
> 
> I'm rubbish at so many things in life that I try, but one thing I have is focus, determination and a 6'4" frame - I'm trying my best to make the most of those attributes, and lifting heavy sh1t off the floor is one of those areas that is black or white - there's no grey area - you can lift it or you can't. On or off, yes or no, binary.... etc. There's nobody else that can interfere or leave stuff open to negotiation or interpretation or perception like so many other areas of our lives. It's the one area I feel in control of and I MUST exploit that as far as I possibly can.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Absolutely!

I have issues with deadlifts and squats myself, cause of my long-ish legs and stubby torso, makes a lot of stuff in the lift go wrong (hips going up in squat before anything else making me lean forward) & not able to reach the bar on a deadlift without being in an awkward position (lol) - but I've slowly over time improved things and done little things that can help through determination, so I get what you're saying that its us in complete control of what we have and what we do with it (I assume thats slightly what you were referring to anyway haha!)


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> I have issues with deadlifts and squats myself, cause of my long-ish legs and stubby torso, makes a lot of stuff in the lift go wrong (hips going up in squat before anything else making me lean forward) & not able to reach the bar on a deadlift without being in an awkward position (lol) - but I've slowly over time improved things and done little things that can help through determination, so I get what you're saying that its us in complete control of what we have and what we do with it (I assume thats slightly what you were referring to anyway haha!)


Yep.

I have the same issue in the squat - I have a really long back so as the weight increases, I feel myself collapsing as I drive my hips out of the hole and the bar wants to come forwards. As soon as I try and bring the shoulders and upper back up at the same rate as the hips, I kind of stall whilst shooting wax bullets out of my ears.

I'm at 100kg at the moment for 2 reps, then a short rest, then another one - absolute balls to the wall. I'll stick at this weight until I can grind out 5 reps before moving up a weight, but it was important to me to actually do the 100kg, even if it was for 1 rep as at least I'm in the club rather than knocking on the door as it were!


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## Ian_Montrose (Nov 13, 2007)

You mentioned a few times that you take a few fast deep breaths. In my experience it is extremely difficult to do this and most people who think they are are not actually breathing properly. What they tend to be doing is only partially expelling the used air (co2) from their lungs and topping up with a sharp inhale. Try making a point of *fully* exhaling - concentrate on that more than the inhale which will pretty much take care of itself.


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Few good tips here.
> 
> & Read this:
> 
> ...


Good tip


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## The Sweeney (May 8, 2014)

Ian_Montrose said:


> You mentioned a few times that you take a few fast deep breaths. In my experience it is extremely difficult to do this and most people who think they are are not actually breathing properly. What they tend to be doing is only partially expelling the used air (co2) from their lungs and topping up with a sharp inhale. Try making a point of *fully* exhaling - concentrate on that more than the inhale which will pretty much take care of itself.


Noted, thanks


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## tehdarkstar (Jul 15, 2014)

The Sweeney said:


> ... - there's no grey area - you can lift it or you can't. On or off, yes or no, binary.... etc. There's nobody else that can interfere or leave stuff open to negotiation or interpretation or perception like so many other areas of our lives. It's the one area I feel in control of and I MUST exploit that as far as I possibly can.


That's why I love heavy lifting. Nothing feels as satisfying as finding you've got a new 1RM after several weeks of work. Numbers don't lie.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

**** 5s, that's cardio 1-3 reps pulled powerfully and fast is the way forward with deadlifts.


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## C33G (Feb 23, 2014)

Whats your BW? im vary my rep ranges from 3s, 5s, 7s for Deads. Work in the 70-80% range of your 1RM thats where youll be able to practice form under load and build strength. The blacking out thing is probably a breathing/technique issue.


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