# How Big



## Mondi (Mar 20, 2015)

Hi fellows. How big can a person training become without steroids, growth hormone or other stuff not allowed?

Thanks.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

As big as their genetic potential will allow them.

On a serious note though, are you trolling or simply autistic? I really am 50/50 on this one.........


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## Mondi (Mar 20, 2015)

I might ask you the same thing!!!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Mondi said:


> I might ask you the same thing!!!


 Thanks for the answer.........


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Mondi said:


> I might ask you the same thing!!!


 Well, you got your answer.

Define 'a person'. No two of us are the same, so it's an impossible question.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Twice as big as half their genetic limit.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Mondi said:


> Hi fellows. How big can a person training become without steroids, growth hormone or other stuff not allowed?
> 
> Thanks.


 Not allowed?? All the things you mentioned above ARE allowed!


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## Mondi (Mar 20, 2015)

In which country do you mean they are allowed. In my country they are not allowed.



Ultrasonic said:


> Twice as big as half their genetic limit.


 LOL


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Twice as big as half their genetic limit.


 Now that is a good answer.......

gl=(gl/2)*2

This might simplify things for him......


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## Mondi (Mar 20, 2015)

Quackerz you are trolling.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Mondi said:


> Quackerz you are trolling.


 Takes one to know one.


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## Mondi (Mar 20, 2015)

LOL.


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## toecutter (Dec 28, 2014)

An average sized man (5'8-5'11) with average genetics can typically gain circa 2-2.5 stone (25-35lbs) of lean muscle mass naturally.


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## UlsterRugby (Nov 16, 2014)

toecutter said:


> An average sized man (5'8-5'11) with average genetics can typically gain circa 2-2.5 stone (25-35lbs) of lean muscle mass naturally.


 says who? Average height is 5ft 10 but define average starting weight?


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## Colin (Sep 28, 2015)

toecutter said:


> An average sized man (5'8-5'11) with average genetics can typically gain circa 2-2.5 stone (25-35lbs) of *lean muscle* mass naturally.


 See this alot on here, "lean muscle" don't get it.

Its hardly going to be fatty muscle is it?


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## UlsterRugby (Nov 16, 2014)

Colin said:


> See this alot on here, "lean" don't get it.
> 
> Its hardly going to be fatty muscle is it?


 its people just spouting bro science, someone has read the term lbm and got confused and called it lean muscle lol


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## Colin (Sep 28, 2015)

UlsterRugby said:


> its people just spouting bro science, someone has read the term lbm and got confused and called it lean muscle lol


 Yeah, and I expected you when he wrote that to quiz him and put a please on the end of it ^_^


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Mondi said:


> Hi fellows. How big can a person training become without steroids, growth hormone or other stuff not allowed?
> 
> Thanks.


 Not as big as if he was on gear.


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## AestheticManlet (Jun 12, 2012)

Not as big as you probably want to be.


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## toecutter (Dec 28, 2014)

UlsterRugby said:


> says who? Average height is 5ft 10 but define average starting weight?


 Everything I say is my opinion. People like to give vague, smart-alec answers but given numbers, statistics and experience you can start to put average figures together. IMO, circa 2st is about the average.

BTW, I hate terms like that (lean muscle) myself, but when you talk about weight people often think they've gained more muscle than they actually have, especially if you are/were young and growing anyway.


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## UlsterRugby (Nov 16, 2014)

toecutter said:


> Everything I say is my opinion. People like to give vague, smart-alec answers but given numbers, statistics and experience you can start to put average figures together. IMO, circa 2st is about the average.
> 
> BTW, I hate terms like that (lean muscle) myself, but when you talk about weight people often think they've gained more muscle than they actually have, especially if you are/were young and growing anyway.


 An average sized man (5'8-5'11) with average genetics can typically gain circa 2-2.5 stone (25-35lbs) of lean muscle mass naturally.

thats what you said, typically gain... based on what evidence I asked. Now your saying from your experience. there is so many variables its just not accurate to give a figure. then when you say lean muscle thats the part where i lost all faith. Muscle is lean fat is not. I think you meant to say muscle not just weight


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

toecutter said:


> Everything I say is my opinion. People like to give vague, smart-alec answers but given numbers, statistics and experience you can start to put average figures together. IMO, circa 2st is about the average.
> 
> BTW, I hate terms like that (lean muscle) myself, but when you talk about weight people often think they've gained more muscle than they actually have, especially if you are/were young and growing anyway.


 Exactly how do you come to these conclusions though? Any studies or statistics to back your claims? And not articles from BB sites either please. Anecdotal opinion is worthless, you need evidence and by the looks of things, you have none.........


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## UlsterRugby (Nov 16, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Exactly how do you come to these conclusions though? Any studies or statistics to back your claims? And not articles from BB sites either please. Anecdotal opinion is worthless, you need evidence and by the looks of things, you have none.........


 Its trash like this that pollute forms people spouting crap like its a FACT or PROVEN


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

UlsterRugby said:


> Its trash like this that pollute forms people spouting crap like its a FACT or PROVEN


 I would agree completely. People watch a few YT videos and become experts overnight........ it winds me up sometimes.

If someone is ever going to argue a point they need to be able to back it up with factual evidence, something which seems to never happen all too often.

@IGotTekkers and his Vegan propaganda the other day being a prime example.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> I would agree completely. People watch a few YT videos and become experts overnight........ it winds me up sometimes.
> 
> If someone is ever going to argue a point they need to be able to back it up with factual evidence, something which seems to never happen all too often.
> 
> @IGotTekkers and his Vegan propaganda the other day being a prime example.


 lol, dan dianabol man spreading the gospel. lol.


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

UlsterRugby said:


> says who? Average height is just about 5ft 8" but define average starting weight?


 :whistling:


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## toecutter (Dec 28, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Exactly how do you come to these conclusions though? Any studies or statistics to back your claims? And not articles from BB sites either please. Anecdotal opinion is worthless, you need evidence and by the looks of things, you have none.........


 I've made it clear this is my own opinion and generally speaking, that is what a discussion forum is for - for everyone to share their own opinions and speak for themselves.

I've heard these numbers touted before and I'd be willing to go along with them based on my own life experience and experience of others I know and trust. That is where I personally believe the "average" for natural muscle gain falls. Feel free to disagree.


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## UlsterRugby (Nov 16, 2014)

so have you put that much mass on and thats how you came up with that number. at what 'average' weight did you start at

the other you know how long did it take them to add 25lbs of lean muscle? again what was their starting height and weight


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> lol, dan dianabol man spreading the gospel. lol.












Vegans.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Mondi said:


> Hi fellows. How big can a person training become without steroids, growth hormone or other stuff not allowed?
> 
> Thanks.


 I intend to be a right ol lump when I'm done. I'm aiming @16st in the 12 -14% BF range.... Height 5' 10"

Lets wait n see if I can achieve it.....


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

It's generally accepted that a fat-free BMI of around 25 is the limit for everyone but the most extreme genetic outlier.

So an man of average height (177 cm / 5'10) would have a lean limit of 78kg. That's equivalent to 92kg at 15% bodyfat, 87kg lean (10%) or 82kg in contest shape (5% fat)

This is for someone with exceptional genetics though. I'm 180cm, and I got to around 85kg at 15% bodyfat.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> It's generally accepted that a fat-free BMI of around 25 is the limit for everyone but the most extreme genetic outlier.
> 
> So an man of average height (177 cm / 5'10) would have a lean limit of 78kg. That's equivalent to 92kg at 15% bodyfat, 87kg lean (10%) or 82kg in contest shape (5% fat)
> 
> This is for someone with exceptional genetics though. I'm 180cm, and I got to around 85kg at 15% bodyfat.


 Does this mean I cannot be 101.6kg somewhere between 12 -14% Bf? I reckon I can, or should I say hope to achieve this.


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## Mergal (Nov 7, 2013)

just going on the thread title

realisticly about 8 and half inches on a good (warm) day


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## arcticfox (Jan 11, 2015)

Mergal said:


> just going on the thread title
> 
> realisticly about 8 and half inches on a good (warm) day


 You seen my DVD


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## Mergal (Nov 7, 2013)

arcticfox said:


> You seen my DVD


 dont tell everyone!


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Does this mean I cannot be 101.6kg somewhere between 12 -14% Bf? I reckon I can, or should I say hope to achieve this.


 You definitely can mate but I reckon you'd need to set up a new user on ukm.


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## arcticfox (Jan 11, 2015)

Mergal said:


> dont tell everyone!


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## Mondi (Mar 20, 2015)

Thanks for answers.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Does this mean I cannot be 101.6kg somewhere between 12 -14% Bf? I reckon I can, or should I say hope to achieve this.


 That gives you a FFBMI of just over 28 - comparable to Arnold at his prime.

Good luck doing that natty.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

A Lean BMI of 25 is only a guideline though.

Famous natural trainer Mike O'Hearn claims to be 245lb and 4%. That works out to 29.4 - so it clearly is possible without going anywhere near those nasty steroid things.


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## Acidreflux (Mar 3, 2015)

As big as a smart car or a big diplidocasauras or a big sky scraper or one of dem big fingymagiggys that goes round n round on top of a helicopter!!! Wow thats big...


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Major Eyeswater said:


> That gives you a FFBMI of just over 28 - comparable to Arnold at his prime.
> 
> Good luck doing that natty.


 Yeah I think can do that with ease


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## Sphinkter (Apr 10, 2015)

Major Eyeswater said:


> A Lean BMI of 25 is only a guideline though.
> 
> Famous natural trainer Mike O'Hearn claims to be 245lb and 4%. That works out to 29.4 - so it clearly is possible without going anywhere near those nasty steroid things.


 Yeh but then you'd need to fork out in them duck embryos brah.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Yeah I think can do that with ease


 Fake Natty...... :lol:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Fake Natty...... :lol:


 :huh: :nono: ^_^


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Quackerz said:


> Vegans.


 When I come into power...vegans will be prosecuted for animal cruelty.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

theBEAST2002 said:


> When I come into power...vegans will be prosecuted for animal cruelty.


 LOL

I see your trawling through the old posts.

There is quite a few good ones on here I must admit.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Quackerz said:


> LOL
> 
> I see your trawling through the old posts.
> 
> There is quite a few good ones on here I must admit.


 I view them in the same manner that mole people are viewed I the old sci fi movies. With rightful disgust.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

theBEAST2002 said:


> I view them in the same manner that mole people are viewed I the old sci fi movies. With rightful disgust.


 Some of it is god awful TBH. I might spam gen con to a degree but I genuinely try to help people on here and it usually falls on deaf ears. My avi is not good enough I think...... I provide links, produce studies to back my claims, nothing ever seems to get through to certain people unfortunately.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Quackerz said:


> Some of it is god awful TBH. I might spam gen con to a degree but I genuinely try to help people on here and it usually falls on deaf ears. My avi is not good enough I think...... I provide links, produce studies to back my claims, nothing ever seems to get through to certain people unfortunately.


 I'm not much of a studies guy to be honest. But I understand what you are saying. A lot of people want results but when they ask for advice, what they are really asking for are ways they can achieve them effort free.


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## Fletch68 (Mar 17, 2013)

Major Eyeswater said:


> A Lean BMI of 25 is only a guideline though.
> 
> Famous natural trainer Mike O'Hearn claims to be 245lb and 4%. That works out to 29.4 - so it clearly is possible without going anywhere near those nasty steroid things.


 Mike is a lifelong natural bodybuilder, fitness model, martial artist, actor, model and power body builder. He began training aged 12 and has one in 10 million genetics. Lucky bar steward. His brothers and dad seem to have good genetics but not in Mike's class. His big secret is that he drinks 8 glasses of water a day and includes protein with every meal....


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## boutye911 (Feb 10, 2013)

Fletch68 said:


> His big secret is that he drinks 8 glasses of water a day and includes protein with every meal....


 Alongside 3g test and tren


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

Mondi said:


> Hi fellows. How big can a person training become without steroids, growth hormone or other stuff not allowed?
> 
> Thanks.


 As previously stated, however much their genetics will allow them. how much food can you eat? you can get as heavy as you like, if you can eat what's desired to keep you at set bodyweight, whether you will be muscle bound at that said weight is another story.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Fletch68 said:


> Mike is a lifelong natural bodybuilder, fitness model, martial artist, actor, model and power body builder. He began training aged 12 and has one in 10 million genetics. Lucky bar steward. His brothers and dad seem to have good genetics but not in Mike's class. His big secret is that he drinks 8 glasses of water a day and includes protein with every meal....


 I don't believe for one microsecond that O'Hearn is natty - but to be fair, there are 7 billion people on this planet, so there are 700 people with '1 in 10 million bodybuilding genetics', and quite a few of them will have found their way into the sport. Basically, all the professional BBers are genetic outliers, several standard deviations away from plebs like us.

I've been training for 25 years & my gear use is light to moderate. Dorian Yates looked better than I do now after a couple of months of lifting.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I don't believe for one microsecond that O'Hearn is natty - but to be fair, there are 7 billion people on this planet, so there are 700 people with '1 in 10 million bodybuilding genetics', and quite a few of them will have found their way into the sport. Basically, all the professional BBers are genetic outliers, several standard deviations away from plebs like us.
> 
> I've been training for 25 years & my gear use is light to moderate. Dorian Yates looked better than I do now after a couple of months of lifting.


 what you said about not all of them will find bodybuilding is spot on

you could have guys sat in the local pub with distended guts and man boobs that could have those 1 in 10 million bb genetics but will never know it

so the genetic outliers that we find out about are even slimmer again which is why it really does beg the question when someone claims to be natural and looks like mike ohearn

there is also a look you come to recognise that genetics will not bring, sure you can have those nice full and round muscle belly genetics but the heavily capped off delts and huge traps are too closely associated with gear and the high density of androgen receptors in these muscle groups that would be irrelevant in a natural or rather more proportionate

speaking of dorian yates it also highlights how few of these potential freaks may never find their way into a gym as looking at yates when he was young you wouldnt exactly say to him "mate you should join a gym you look like youve real potential to be a freak" so without that encouragement it slims the field of the genetic freaks finding their way into a gym even more


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I don't believe for one microsecond that O'Hearn is natty - but to be fair, there are 7 billion people on this planet, so there are 700 people with '1 in 10 million bodybuilding genetics', and quite a few of them will have found their way into the sport. Basically, all the professional BBers are genetic outliers, several standard deviations away from *plebs like us.*
> 
> I've been training for 25 years & my gear use is light to moderate. Dorian Yates looked better than I do now after a couple of months of lifting.


 Thanks mate. Appreciate it. :thumbup1:

LOL


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

swole troll said:


> what you said about not all of them will find bodybuilding is spot on
> 
> you could have guys sat in the local pub with distended guts and man boobs that could have those 1 in 10 million bb genetics but will never know it
> 
> ...


 I'm guessing that the outliers with outstanding genetics would have a greater chance of getting into the sport than an average dude - simply because lots of young lads do a bit of lifting at some point, and the outliers might be more inclined to stick with it because of the fantastic results they get. Just a gut feeling of course, no evidence to back-up or refute it.

As for 'the look' of a gear user - you're absolutely right. When you know what you are looking at, there is a definite look to an enhanced physique that competition natural bodybuilders don't have & he does.


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## Major Eyeswater (Nov 2, 2013)

Quackerz said:


> Thanks mate. Appreciate it. :thumbup1:
> 
> LOL


 I didn't mean you obviously. Your genetics were handed down by Zeus himself


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Major Eyeswater said:


> I didn't mean you obviously. Your genetics were handed down by Zeus himself


 LOL

@swole troll, is that STE in the left in that picture you posted?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Quackerz said:


> LOL
> 
> @swole troll, is that STE in the left in that picture you posted?


 its Dorian Yates

or am i missing a joke here, who's STE?


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

swole troll said:


> its Dorian Yates
> 
> or am i missing a joke here, who's STE?


 Members journals, the BIG DADDY...... just looks like him.


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