# More Programming Advice



## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

Right, so a few of you may know (I'm looking mainly at you @Bataz and @swole troll lol) I tend to jump on here a lot for programming advise. I'm currently training for a meet, so my training for the next 5 weeks is sweet.

But looking at numbers I was hitting this time last year and I've made more or less f**k all progress. In a year I've added 5kg to my bench, 15kg to my squat and 10kg to my deadlift... which for 3 years or training (give or take) is fu**ing weak. I've jumped on wendler and the juggernought which just didn't really add much, I tried working up to 2/3/5 rep maxes but felt myself being over worked a lot. I found myself not adding a lot after a few month or so, and ending up scrapping it. It may be down to my diet or something but I'm sick of seeing people progress and seeing myself adding close to f**k all.

Can anybody recommend some good programs that works in the 80%-90% range so I can actually get good at adding weight and not being a piss weak powerlifter wannabe?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

What are your current 1rm's and are you eating in a surplus?

This info is vital to give a worthy answer to your op

I'll check back tomorrow and if no one else has answered ill get back to you as im literally going cross eyed writing this where I'm so tired


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

right im rested, fed and coffeed

most solid programs will have you working in the 80% range

the program you run is largely irrelevant, progression is all that matters

that is progression in both total tonnage shifted each week and total calories consumed each week 
IE you need to be lifting more total weight week after week and you need to be eating enough to be continually gaining weight

i've put this out multiple times on this forum and i stand by it from the day i first wrote it:

"i generally advise all newer lifters the same thing in regards to 'building a base' as its often refereed to

(for the first 3 beginner programs pick one of the three and if you opt for ICF then you can usually switch from ICF to stronglifts once you stall and continue to make strength gains on the lowered volume before moving onto an early intermediate program)

Stronglifts 5x5, ICF or starting strength >>> Madcow's >>> Texas method >>> Wendler's 531 with the powerlifting to win template

run each one of them into the ground before progressing to the next program: eat in a surplus, plenty of rest, follow the correct stall / deload procedures for each program until you can no longer progress on that particular routine then move onto the next and repeat the process

if you run it correctly and get everything you can from each program then this whole process will likely take years to complete but it will leave you with a decent size and strength standard plus the knowledge of programming and how to implement it into your own routine should you decide to make one after completing all of the above"

the exception to the above is if you have spent adequate time and calories working up through the programs i listed and then you jump on gear then aim to drop back down to one of the previous programs that have more aggressive progression

the difference between a beginner and an intermediate lifter is that the beginner can typically handle a higher frequency and recover faster due to the less overall stress on the CNS and connective tissue

when you take steroids they improve recovery ability which means that if you were at a stage that you couldnt recover from the session by session linear progression of stronglifts so you moved up to madcows and started to progress on that, when you start to take gear you will be able to drop back and progress on stronglifts again due to the enhanced recovery

all of the above is assuming food intake is in check, prioritise your goals, forget recomps, do you want to get big and strong or do you want a six pack?

eat for whichever goal you choose but commit to it for at least 12 weeks before making a switch otherwise you will simply end up spinning your wheels


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

swole troll said:


> right im rested, fed and coffeed
> 
> most solid programs will have you working in the 80% range
> 
> ...


 Getting caffiened up as we speak.

Cheers for the knowledge. I think my main issue is that I jump on the strength thing, get a little bigger and start stressing about my physique so I start eating in a deficit. I usually spend a lot of time on accessories which I'm starting to think was another problem.

My current numbers are 160 Squat / 105 Bench (My bench is s**t and always have / 190 Deadlift

I started on 5x5 then jumped into 5/3/1, never really heard of the texas method or anything. I've downloaded greg nuckols programming, and some of his programes aim to go for a new 1RM every 4 weeks. Is that not a little much or am I just being a little bitch? It looks like this...

Bench Intermediate 2x Per week

Day 1 (Comp) Day 2 (CGBP)

Week 1 - 80%x4x5, 85%x2x3 1x12RM, 3x8-12

Week 2 - 80%x2x5, 85%x4x3 1x10RM, 4x6-8

Week 3 - 85%x3x3, 90%x3x1 1 x 8RM, 5x5-6

Week 4 - 70%X5X3 (Deload) (Comp) New 1RM

Squat Intermediate 2x Per week

Day 1 Day 2

Week 1 - 80% x 5 x 5 1x8RM, 3x6

Week 2 - 85% x 4 x 3 1x5RM, 3x4

Week 3 - 90% x 3 x 1 1x3RM, 3x2

Week 4 - New Max 60% x 3x6

Deadlift Intermediate 1x Per week

Week 1 - 80% x 4 x 5, 60% x 6 x 3 (EMOM)

Week 2 - 90% x 2 x 1, 85% x 3 x 3, 65% x 6 x 3

Week 3 - 70% x 6 x 3

Week 4 - New 1RM Attempt


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

i saw those 32 free program things and yea theyre all fairly solid if not a little rushed out imo

look at your numbers d say if you want to get stronger than jump on madcows for at least 8 weeks ideally 12+ and eat like a champ, aim to gain 0.5lb per week and commit to it

this is your biggest problem in regard to getting bigger and stronger

" I jump on the strength thing, get a little bigger and start stressing about my physique so I start eating in a deficit. "

get over this mental hang up, its bloody easy to lose fat, gaining muscle takes ages so commit to your endevour and see it through

if you are continually trying to get stronger whilst getting leaner or switching back and forth too quickly between the two then you will spin your wheels and get no where

at the absolute minimum commit 8 weeks to each so 8 weeks proper bulking (gaining half a pound per week for the duration) then 8 weeks cutting (loosing weight at the same rate)

id personally advise a 10 week approach but if its tearing you up inside after 8 weeks then you can make the switch but you shouldnt be so scared about getting fat, its all working toward the end goal to be bigger and stronger


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

I've had a look into it and I like the look of it, the idea of only training 3 days a week is a little daunting... I have a lot of mental barriers to get over it seems lol. Although, if it gets me doing a set of 5 reps on squats with 170kg in 12 weeks its definitely something I'd give a go of.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Just have faith in the program

It's built many a great squat

If you have an android then download the madcows 5x5 app and it does all the math for you


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

I'm on IOS ufortunately, that has an app too. I also downloaded the spreadsheet from PTW.

I'm gonna put my faith in you and trust the programme after my up coming meet. I wanted 170/110/190 by then but I dont see that happening.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Stay in a calorie surplus, plenty of rest, stick to the program exactly as written and you should make some great strength gains


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## John. (Jun 24, 2013)

Sounds like you need to eat more. To get stronger, faster you will need to gain some weight.

Once you have gained some strength you can cut down again, but unless you are competing in a weight class sport you shouldn't worry about it too much.

I had the same problem, and it took me deciding to move up a weight class to get over the fact that I'm going to be a bit chubbier for 6 months or so. I would draw the line at 20% bf or you risk going into unhealthy territory (which for world class athletes is fine, for us normal human beings, not so much).


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Sorry @BlaineSC I've not been on here much recently, had a lot going on at home.

Go with what @swole troll is advising, he has advised me many a time in the past.

BUT............STOP STRESSING! It won't do you any good believe me, I've been there and just ended up stopping training. It's a long progress and doesn't come easy. It's a time of trial and error for you but you will get there if you are persistent.


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

swole troll said:


> right im rested, fed and coffeed
> 
> most solid programs will have you working in the 80% range
> 
> ...


 Cracking post mate, imho unless you are elite or very close to it.....the programs you mentioned above will take anyone from beginner to *exceptionally strong* provided the person is committed to eating enough calories and not fvcking with said program! Good stuff...


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

@swole troll I'm gonna run it from the end of august until January and start a 'recomp' In the new year. So thats a solid 16 weeks to run it, hopefully the dream of benching 140, squatting 180 and deadlifting 220 will happen. I'm eating at least 3500 calroies a day. I know I cut on 2750 so that should be enough, right?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Just increase your calories by 10% and aim to gain 0.5lb per week, when that completely stalls ie you arn't gaining any weight at all then add another 10%


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

Let me(us) know how are you progressing OP. I'm really curious as I'm just the same guy you described. When I get a bit fat, I want to lose it. When I lost strength, I want to gain it back...cursed circle. That's why my maxes stall for months if not year or two! I'm eating the same amount of calories as well, but I'll have to up it as Sheiko is a demanding comrade.

Good luck


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Let me(us) know how are you progressing OP. I'm really curious as I'm just the same guy you described. When I get a bit fat, I want to lose it. When I lost strength, I want to gain it back...cursed circle. That's why my maxes stall for months if not year or two! I'm eating the same amount of calories as well, but I'll have to up it as Sheiko is a demanding comrade.
> 
> Good luck


 Mate, What @swole troll said... DO IT! My maxes have done good in a matter of weeks just by embracing the fat, Added 50kg to my max lifts (30 squat / 10 bench / 10+ dead by competition standards) I can get my old max of 100 bench for 4 reps now... which I think is fu**ing solid since It used to be my balls out max.

Jumping on the Madcows programme from Monday, when I got the advise I just started my prep for my competition. I'm gonna post a workout log on here if you want to follow


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> Mate, What @swole troll said... DO IT! My maxes have done good in a matter of weeks just by embracing the fat.


 Sounds like some kind of supercompensation .

Man, I'm just a narcisst fu*k, don't want to pile up on body fat. However I definitely WILL increase my calories, but gradually (let's say every 2-3% every week) and I will hit 4000 kcal in Sheiko's comp/peaking phase #32v2. I was thinking about what swole troll said from yesterday till now and he's definitely right about one thing: gains in strength and muscle is slow process, wheter loosing body fat is fairly easy.



BlaineSC said:


> Jumping on the Madcows programme from Monday, when I got the advise I just started my prep for my competition. I'm gonna post a workout log on here if you want to follow


 Will keep an eye on your gainz if u decide to run a log :beer:


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Sounds like some kind of supercompensation .
> 
> Man, I'm just a narcisst fu*k, don't want to pile up on body fat. However I definitely WILL increase my calories, but gradually (let's say every 2-3% every week) and I will hit 4000 kcal in Sheiko's comp/peaking phase #32v2. I was thinking about what swole troll said from yesterday till now and he's definitely right about one thing: gains in strength and muscle is slow process, wheter loosing body fat is fairly easy.
> 
> Will keep an eye on your gainz if u decide to run a log :beer:


 Its definitely a slow but worth whole process. I just signed up to the Great British Powerlifting Federation so I need to get as strong as I humanly can!

And I Will be running a training log if you want to keep up  its gonna start on Monday


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> Its definitely a slow but worth whole process. I just signed up to the Great British Powerlifting Federation so I need to get as strong as I humanly can!
> 
> And I Will be running a training log if you want to keep up  its gonna start on Monday


 Yes, I guess it's worth it, but I can't get rid of my bodybuidling "me" in terms of nutrition, training part is already devoted to strength with few weeks of hypertrophy thrown in now and then.

Good luck on your task, will watch your log


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Yes, I guess it's worth it, but I can't get rid of my bodybuidling "me" in terms of nutrition, training part is already devoted to strength with few weeks of hypertrophy thrown in now and then.
> 
> Good luck on your task, will watch your log


 There are a lot of programmes (Chad Wesley Smith's Juggernaut system comes to mind) that have a huge emphasis on bodybuilding in the early weeks that grows in intensity and some swear by it for strength, have a look into that


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Out of the hundreds of programmes I've seen one of the best ones I've done and am going at present is one @Mingster has posted many, many times.


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

Bataz said:


> Out of the hundreds of programmes I've seen one of the best ones I've done and am going at present is one @Mingster has posted many, many times.


 What would that be? I'm sticking to Madcows until my meet prep for a comp im doing in November but I'm curious


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> What would that be? I'm sticking to Madcows until my meet prep for a comp im doing in November but I'm curious


 Day 1:

squat low reps

SLDL medium reps

calf raises high reps

Day 2:

Bench Low reps

OHP medium reps

Tri Ext high reps

Day 3:

DL low reps

BB Row medium reps

Bi Curls High reps


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

Bataz said:


> Day 1:
> 
> squat low reps
> 
> ...


 I prefer some volume and frequency in my workouts. Like, on Madcows you Squat and Bench 3x per week and I love it. Its one thing I liked about 531 PTW template, the frequency was incredible.

I have a DUP programme for after the year so I can shed some of this fat I've put on without losing my strength which I'm kinda excited about. But at the same time, I just want to keep getting stronger


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

just keep grinding away mate and you'll get stronger. Programmes are not as important as people think, it's the effort and intensity that will bring results.


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> I prefer some volume and frequency in my workouts. Like, on Madcows you Squat and Bench 3x per week and I love it. Its one thing I liked about 531 PTW template, the frequency was incredible.


 Same with Sheiko mate. Bench 3x and squat twice a week works wonders on my form, every rep is almost identical and I though my form was great already. Can you copy and paste the 5/3/1 PTW template? I was searching for It in the past, but couldn't find it, only 5/3/1 for powerlifting (which looked like 3/5/1 or so).

thanks


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Same with Sheiko mate. Bench 3x and squat twice a week works wonders on my form, every rep is almost identical and I though my form was great already. Can you copy and paste the 5/3/1 PTW template? I was searching for It in the past, but couldn't find it, only 5/3/1 for powerlifting (which looked like 3/5/1 or so).
> 
> thanks


 Will do when I'm home buddy.

I just tried to do some cardio jusy for cardijvascular strength, and I'm literally dying from 10 minutes lol


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Same with Sheiko mate. Bench 3x and squat twice a week works wonders on my form, every rep is almost identical and I though my form was great already. Can you copy and paste the 5/3/1 PTW template? I was searching for It in the past, but couldn't find it, only 5/3/1 for powerlifting (which looked like 3/5/1 or so).
> 
> thanks


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> View attachment 134865


 Thanks mate, appreciated . I really like it bc most of the powerlifting programs neglect press for obvious reasons, but I really like to keep press in my program so this will suit me nicely. However squats and dead's in one day twice a week makes my lower back hurt just reading it, I don't know, maybe it's not that bad, but I really like to keep them separated. However one of the few programs I consider after I'll be finished with Sheiko. Thanks


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Thanks mate, appreciated . I really like it bc most of the powerlifting programs neglect press for obvious reasons, but I really like to keep press in my program so this will suit me nicely. However squats and dead's in one day twice a week makes my lower back hurt just reading it, I don't know, maybe it's not that bad, but I really like to keep them separated. However one of the few programs I consider after I'll be finished with Sheiko. Thanks


 Don't be afraid of dl and squats on the same day, embrace it! I've done it for a year now and I've not suffered at all .. you do get aches and what not but its all part of the game


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## VeneCZ (May 30, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> Don't be afraid of dl and squats on the same day, embrace it! I've done it for a year now and I've not suffered at all .. you do get aches and what not but its all part of the game


 Yes, but there are good aches and the bad ones . I've done that before and I blocked my vertebrae, actually it was some muscle spasm that caused it (from what I remember doc told me). Also heavy dead's once a week is all my CNS can take from what I observe last few weeks, but 7 hrs of sleep probably wasn't enough, uped it to 8 and I recover much better now. Maybe having 2nd of DL working on speed or sumo stance with lighter weight, that could be fine


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

VeneCZ said:


> Yes, but there are good aches and the bad ones . I've done that before and I blocked my vertebrae, actually it was some muscle spasm that caused it (from what I remember doc told me). Also heavy dead's once a week is all my CNS can take from what I observe last few weeks, but 7 hrs of sleep probably wasn't enough, uped it to 8 and I recover much better now. Maybe having 2nd of DL working on speed or sumo stance with lighter weight, that could be fine


 I started doing that before Madcows, heavy on conventional and lighter sumo coz I really like sumo for ham and glute development, so definitely a good call! Its just like doing an RDL just a little better.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> Don't be afraid of dl and squats on the same day, embrace it! I've done it for a year now and I've not suffered at all .. you do get aches and what not but its all part of the game


 Andy Bolton has done them together for years and recommends it in his seminars.


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## BlaineSC (Oct 10, 2015)

Bataz said:


> Andy Bolton has done them together for years and recommends it in his seminars.


 Exactly, and he is one of the most recongised names in powerlifting. That says everything


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

BlaineSC said:


> Exactly, and he is one of the most recongised names in powerlifting. That says everything


 He added 20kg to my dead lift in about 10 minutes lol


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