# Keto diet is insane!



## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Just weighed my self at the gym and i'm 11 3/4 stone, was 12 1/2 or just near that 3 days ago, some of that will be water weight but that's a very impressive drop relative to the old carb + 2 cardio sessions a day routine 

I'll post some pics when I get more shredded up


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Can you post up a typical days diet - very interested. Good work.


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## hermie07 (Sep 16, 2008)

congrats on the drop mate, start my keto on Monday hopefully see the same results. how much cardio are you doing?


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2011)

PumpingIron said:


> Just weighed my self at the gym and i'm 11 3/4 stone, was 12 1/2 or just near that 3 days ago, *some of that will be water weight* but that's a very impressive drop relative to the old carb + 2 cardio sessions a day routine
> 
> I'll post some pics when I get more shredded up


No mate, Nearly all of that will be water and Glycogen

Keep it up and the fat will start coming off.


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

good for you mate, congrats


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## lew_west (Feb 14, 2009)

Good effort pal, would also be interested in seeing your diet plan.


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Generally my diet is like this,

Morning - Bacon eggs ( butter mixed with eggs ), fried up in olive / rapeseed oil. Table spoon of olive oil.

Mid day - Tuna Mayonaisse ( Real hellmanns as it has very low carbs and high fat. )

Afternoon - Pork mince fried in rapeseed oil, throw a bit of salt in. Table spoon of olive oil.

Evening - Low carb protein shake + tablespoon of olive oil.

Late night - Beef meatballs fried in olive oil.

Have about 4-5 pint glasses of water.

If you start to crave sweets a no sugar drink will get you through those low days, or even a no sugar jelly pot.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2011)

No veg?


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

No I take fibre supplements.


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## hermie07 (Sep 16, 2008)

mikex101 said:


> No veg?


are the birdseye steambags ok as they are so quick for me at work, just veg in a bag and in the mic for 2 mins job done?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

PumpingIron said:


> Generally my diet is like this,
> 
> Morning - Bacon eggs ( butter mixed with eggs ), fried up in olive / rapeseed oil. Table spoon of olive oil.
> 
> ...


Doesn't look too bad that, like said, your wieght drop right now will be glycogen and the associated water - but keep it going and fat will shift :thumbup1:


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2011)

hermie07 said:


> are the birdseye steambags ok as they are so quick for me at work, just veg in a bag and in the mic for 2 mins job done?


Probably.

I like keto diets, but no the kind above. Just personal pref though.

When on keto id eat around 400g of green veg/day and stay in keto. Id also feel human.


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## webby06_2007 (Dec 14, 2009)

mikex101 said:


> Probably.
> 
> I like keto diets, but no the kind above. Just personal pref though.
> 
> When on keto id eat around 400g of green veg/day and stay in keto. Id also feel human.


can u post up your diet plan really thinking aboout doing keto but unsure nice to get different peoples diet plans to build my own


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## aka (Jun 25, 2010)

mikex101 said:


> Probably.
> 
> I like keto diets, but no the kind above. Just personal pref though.
> 
> When on keto id eat around 400g of green veg/day and stay in keto. Id also feel human.





webby06_2007 said:


> can u post up your diet plan really thinking aboout doing keto but unsure nice to get different peoples diet plans to build my own


x2


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## frankthetank80 (Feb 13, 2011)

This is what I'm going to start on Monday

Meal 1

3 eggs

EVOO

10 Almonds

P-21 F-47 C-5

Meal 2

Tuna in spring water

EVOO

10 Almonds

P-36 F-34 C-2

Meal 3

Optimum Nutrition Protein Shake - 100% Whey Gold Standard - Double Rich Chocolate, 30.4 g

EVOO

P-24 F-14 C-3

Meal 4

300g Mince

Seasoning

P-61 F-31 C-6

Meal 5

Optimum Nutrition Protein Shake - 100% Whey Gold Standard - Double Rich Chocolate, 30.4 g

EVOO

P-24 F-14 C-3

Totals

P-166 F-144 C-19 Cals 2000


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## Thunderstruck (Sep 20, 2010)

it may well be water/glycogen weight to start with but physchologially its a great boost and really gets you in the right frame of mind to kick ass.


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Thunderstruck said:


> it may well be water/glycogen weight to start with but physchologially its a great boost and really gets you in the right frame of mind to kick ass.


Word


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

PumpingIron said:


> Word


Number!


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Why does everyone wax lyrical about keto diets on here out fo interest?

Being in ketosis isn't particualry special, it's not an automatic ticket to fatloss either - it still relies on a being in a calorie deficit. Granted they blunt hunger well (for some), but me personally I find them (keto diets) overly restrictive and deterimental to performance in the weight room. I find I perform better on a lower carb diet (around 120-150g C) whilst cutting, but not specifically keto.

It's not a very good state to be in if muscle gain is your goal either, for various reasons.


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## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

how do you feel in yourself on a keto diet?

Must make you feel a little weird, tired and drowzy?


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Question - If you have high cholesterol can you still do a Keto diet or will it increase it further?


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## mrfitness2008 (Nov 9, 2008)

Eat no more than 30g of carbs a day and then enjoy peeing out your ketones.

Yes you will feel different and it's like being on high.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Glassback said:


> Question - If you have high cholesterol can you still do a Keto diet or will it increase it further?


You might want to research whether there is any way fat intake can affect cholesterol levels, and whether high cholesterol is actually "harmful" in the first place. There's plenty of good evidence out there to suggest the government / GP guideline are wrong on this one.

To answer your original question though, many find keto / low carb diets noticeably improve their lipid panel rather than worsen it.


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Barker said:


> how do you feel in yourself on a keto diet?
> 
> Must make you feel a little weird, tired and drowzy?


I find I perform better on ketogenic diets when doing cardio workouts ( lack of bloating maybe? ) I never get stitches either.

The weight room I suffer a little bit but i'm still increasing my weight every week so it's fine for now.


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

bayman said:


> Why does everyone wax lyrical about keto diets on here out fo interest?
> 
> Being in ketosis isn't particualry special, it's not an automatic ticket to fatloss either - it still relies on a being in a calorie deficit. Granted they blunt hunger well (for some), but me personally I find them (keto diets) overly restrictive and deterimental to performance in the weight room. I find I perform better on a lower carb diet (around 120-150g C) whilst cutting, but not specifically keto.
> 
> It's not a very good state to be in if muscle gain is your goal either, for various reasons.


Well, if you've seen some picture progress threads from other ketogenic dieters then you will know why people preach about it endlessly. It gives results and I for one welcome it. Plus it's a new way of trying things. I've did the cut back and cardio in the past, I was overweight in school, went from 13 1/2 stone ( XL size ) to 10 1/2 stone ( XS size ). So mixing it up is a way to find whats best for me.


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

bayman said:


> You might want to research whether there is any way fat intake can affect cholesterol levels, and whether high cholesterol is actually "harmful" in the first place. There's plenty of good evidence out there to suggest the government / GP guideline are wrong on this one.
> 
> To answer your original question though, many find keto / low carb diets noticeably improve their lipid panel rather than worsen it.


Excellent post - I will research. Something I found earlier on this fizzled out to have an inconclusive answer - but tested this on a group of people. Do you have anything you have read?

I am more than willing to research myself but if you do have anything mate let me know. Very interested. I have High Cholesterol. I dont smoke or drink and train 4 times a week. So really unsure and caught out by the results. It does run in family but hospital letter make it sound like I have bad aids!

I was considering keto, to start Monday but the letter put me off... Cheers Bayman.

Sorry back to topic


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## TommyFire (Jul 18, 2010)

bayman said:


> Why does everyone wax lyrical about keto diets on here out fo interest?
> 
> Being in ketosis isn't particualry special, it's not an automatic ticket to fatloss either - it still relies on a being in a calorie deficit. Granted they blunt hunger well (for some), but me personally I find them (keto diets) overly restrictive and deterimental to performance in the weight room. I find I perform better on a lower carb diet (around 120-150g C) whilst cutting, but not specifically keto.
> 
> It's not a very good state to be in if muscle gain is your goal either, for various reasons.


Agree with Bayman. Prolonged keto is also a one way ticket to muscle loss. Like i keep reiterating, carbs are not the enemy...... eating too many is.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Glassback said:


> Excellent post - I will research. Something I found earlier on this fizzled out to have an inconclusive answer - but tested this on a group of people. Do you have anything you have read?
> 
> I am more than willing to research myself but if you do have anything mate let me know. Very interested. I have High Cholesterol. I dont smoke or drink and train 4 times a week. So really unsure and caught out by the results. It does run in family but hospital letter make it sound like I have bad aids!
> 
> ...


I'd highly recommend "The Great Cholesterol Con" by Dr. Malcom Kendrick, you'll never look at cholesterol and fat scaremongering the same again. About £6 off amazon / ebay.

Familial hypercholesterolaemia (FH) which is a gentically inherited high level of cholesterol is a different situation though, I'm not sure a keto diet would make things any worse though, as like I said, most people get improvements in the lipid panel from low carb / keto diets.


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## Virtus (Apr 30, 2007)

bayman said:


> Why does everyone wax lyrical about keto diets on here out fo interest?
> 
> Being in ketosis isn't particualry special, it's not an automatic ticket to fatloss either - it still relies on a being in a calorie deficit. Granted they blunt hunger well (for some), but me personally I find them (keto diets) overly restrictive and deterimental to performance in the weight room. I find I perform better on a lower carb diet (around 120-150g C) whilst cutting, but not specifically keto.
> 
> It's not a very good state to be in if muscle gain is your goal either, for various reasons.


I must admit it people get carried away with Keto, especially overweight people who think it is magic diet. I do find carb cycling the most effective form of dieting (low carb days around 100-150g like you've stated); however, a well laid out CKD will get you in crazy condition if you're around 12-15%bf; its one of the most effective diets I've ever done for dropping into single digits


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## thermique (Sep 15, 2010)

hermie07 said:


> are the birdseye steambags ok as they are so quick for me at work, just veg in a bag and in the mic for 2 mins job done?


DOnt those contain carrotts, if so Id cut them out of keto.

Carrots, peppers, sweetcorn, tomatoes etc too sugary for keto imo.


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Indeed as i am learning, if done correctly you'll lose at least 1lb per week, but retain all or at least most of your strength. I did a full on keto last time and that was why my physique went to pot.

And it's really showing, plus the refeeds are just pure awesome, to me it doesn't feel like a diet, just an eating adjustment.

Mind the initial adjustment sucks, but once you get settled in it's great, the fat is coming off great.

Can't wait to see the look of the gym instructor, who reckoned i couldn't lose fat AND keep my gains over the past few months mind 



Virtus said:


> I must admit it people get carried away with Keto, especially overweight people who think it is magic diet. I do find carb cycling the most effective form of dieting (low carb days around 100-150g like you've stated); however, a well laid out CKD will get you in crazy condition if you're around 12-15%bf; its one of the most effective diets I've ever done for dropping into single digits


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## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

Another quick question, we know that carbs turn into glucose, that then get turned into fat, So eliminating this, and just eating fatty products, what happens to the fat?

Im just trying to learn about it its still a little confusing


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Barker said:


> Another quick question, we know that carbs turn into glucose, that then get turned into fat, So eliminating this, and just eating fatty products, what happens to the fat?
> 
> Im just trying to learn about it its still a little confusing


Fat turns into ketones for energy, afaik. :thumbup1:


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## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

I thought it would get turned into energy, but what happens if you don't use this energy?


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## PumpingIron (Feb 7, 2011)

Barker said:


> I thought it would get turned into energy, but what happens if you don't use this energy?


You would have to ask the more knowledgeable uk muscle forum goers!

This is something I couldn't give a factual answer for, only a guess. 

Obviously energy cannot be destroyed it can only change.


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## Matt090 (Oct 19, 2007)

bayman said:


> Why does everyone wax lyrical about keto diets on here out fo interest?
> 
> Being in ketosis isn't particualry special, it's not an automatic ticket to fatloss either - it still relies on a being in a calorie deficit. Granted they blunt hunger well (for some), but me personally I find them (keto diets) overly restrictive and deterimental to performance in the weight room. I find I perform better on a lower carb diet (around 120-150g C) whilst cutting, but not specifically keto.
> 
> It's not a very good state to be in if muscle gain is your goal either, for various reasons.


If you have done a keto for weight loss you will know why people do it i haad 1 month last year befor a holl i was on test to keep alot of muscle mass but dropped over half a stone of fat and had my abbs showing well for the first time in a long time.... the results are quick, also who does keto diets for muscle gain???...


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Barker said:


> Another quick question, we know that carbs turn into glucose, that then get turned into fat, So eliminating this, and just eating fatty products, what happens to the fat?
> 
> Im just trying to learn about it its still a little confusing


Contrary to popular belief, carbs are rarely turned directly into fat - a process known as "de novo lipogenesis" (DNL). Carbs are either stored as glycogen or burnt directly for energy, plus for DNL to occur you need to take on a LOT of carbs. In the main, excessive carb intake (above your energy needs) makes you fat by blunting fat (dietary) burning, so the fat you eat gets directly stored rather than burned for energy.

Now all fat is stored by a hormone know as acylation stimulating protein (ASP), this is turned on in response to chylomirons (packaged fat) being sensed in the blood stream aftwe food is digested, and deposits lipids direct into the adipocyte (fat cells). If you eat too much dietary fat over your calorie/energy needs it's stored by this mechanism, or because of impared oxidation due to too many carbs.

If however you're in a calorie defecit and the bulk of your cals come from fat (as in keto) the fat is stored by ASP but released again for energy, as insulin is low and fat oxidation is high. When you're on a higher fat diet as in keto, you burn more fat but it's not necessarily bodyfat - you still need an energy / caloric deficit for this to happen.

A man much more intelligent than myself has explained this far better here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

bayman said:


> Contrary to popular belief, carbs are rarely turned directly into fat - a process known as "de novo lipogenesis" (DNL), they're either stored as glycogen or burnt directly plus for DNL to occur you need to take on a LOT of carbs. In the main, excessive carb intake (above your energy needs) makes you fat by blunting fat (dietary) burning, so the fat you eat gets directly stored rather than burned for energy.
> 
> All fat is mostly stored by a hormone know as acylation stimulating protein (ASP), this is turned on in response to chylomirons (packaged fat) being sensed in the blood stream as a result of food digestion and deposits lipids direct into the adipocyte (fat cells). If you eat too much dietary fat over your calorie/energy needs it's stored by this mechanism. If however the you're in a calorie defecit and bulk of you cals come from fat (as in keto) the fat is stored by ASP but released again for energy (as insulin is low). When you're on a higher fat diet as in keto, you burn more fat but it's not necessarily bodyfat - you still need an energy / caloric deficit for this to happen.
> 
> A man much more intelligent than myself have explained this better here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat.html


Very good post mate cheers for sharing


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## Virtus (Apr 30, 2007)

Barker said:


> I thought it would get turned into energy, but what happens if you don't use this energy?


If your on a cut then you will have identified your energy expenditure for the day (i.e. total calories), so regardless if you ate carbs or fat you would still be in a calorie deficit and should technically loose weight.

It is only excess glucose that will turn into fat; but this is also possible by eating excess fat. ASP (acylation stimulation protein) has been described has most potent stimulator of fat storage in the fat cell which contradicts many theories that eating high amounts of fat won't have any affect on weight gain.


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## Virtus (Apr 30, 2007)

bayman said:


> Contrary to popular belief, carbs are rarely turned directly into fat - a process known as "de novo lipogenesis" (DNL). Carbs are either stored as glycogen or burnt directly for energy, plus for DNL to occur you need to take on a LOT of carbs. In the main, excessive carb intake (above your energy needs) makes you fat by blunting fat (dietary) burning, so the fat you eat gets directly stored rather than burned for energy.
> 
> Now all fat is stored by a hormone know as acylation stimulating protein (ASP), this is turned on in response to chylomirons (packaged fat) being sensed in the blood stream aftwe food is digested, and deposits lipids direct into the adipocyte (fat cells). If you eat too much dietary fat over your calorie/energy needs it's stored by this mechanism, or because of impared oxidation due to too many carbs.
> 
> ...


Beat me to it


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Like I said though, glucose is rarely turned to fat, it's the inhibited fat oxidation that does the damage. Also, fluctuating blood glucose lead some people to overeat, and simple sources of carbs/glucose also tend to be calorie dense, confounding the situation further.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

its great to hear all the different info on diets and son on, but isnt it just absolutely bottom line no sh1t fact that calories burned more than calories ate is the way to losing weight ??? or is keto basically just the fact that its just fat and water your losing and not weight ???

Does losing weight equal the same as losing weight keto style ???

IE- General diet with restricted calories loses weight - muscle-fat-water

Keto diets - lose weight just fat - water ????


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Calorie deficit is how you lose weight. There are just diff methods of doing it. Keto is just a method that makes your body use body fat "more efficiently" as fuel.

Edit: The air quotes either side of "more efficiently" are not there to confirm, they are there as I don't believe this to be entirely true!


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

greenspin said:


> Calorie deficit is how you lose weight. There are just diff methods of doing it. Keto is just a method that makes your body use body fat 'more efficiently' as fuel.


so is there A BETTER WAY of losing weight is my question. and i dont mean actually results as in best pounds loss. i mean as in quality pounds lossed ???


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Flinty, protein intake being sufficient to maintain lean body mass (aka muscle), you should lose near identical amounts of fat on a normal calorie restricted diet verses keto, assuming the net caloric deficit is the same.

You'll lose more total "weight" on keto as you'll lose more water (although you do lose water on any diet) and this discrepancy never balances out until you finish the diet, hence why researchers / net gurus sometimes try to say keto diets are superior - but they're looking at total weight lost not fat.

Each have they're pro's and cons, some people for whatever reason do horribly on keto diets, others find they almost wipe out hunger on a diet, there's no "one size fits all" approach to dieting. Keto + drugs seems to work particualry well due to the nitrogen retention effects of steroids, as naturally keto can be quite catabolic.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

greenspin said:


> Calorie deficit is how you lose weight. There are just diff methods of doing it. Keto is just a method that makes your body use body fat 'more efficiently' as fuel.


Not necessarily, you just end up burning more fat total as you're consuming more fat - it's only bodyfat if you're in a negative energy balance like you said.


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## Thunderstruck (Sep 20, 2010)

i dont think keto is a magic diet but i feel because the higher fat content allows you to eat 'nicer' food that most diets wouldnt allow and fat is very satisfying and so you eat less and in the end take on less calories.......but i could be wrong.

All i know is i love ckd!!!!!


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## Denial (Feb 2, 2011)

I found two bbc documentaries quite enlightening:

BBC - Horizon - 2004 - The Atkins Diet

10 Things You Need to Know About Losing Weight

They both touch on subjects that relate to the keto diet, and there's a lot of other interesting scientific info in there.


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