# DECA + FINASTERIDE.... MYTH?



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

*Deca + Finasteride = Hairloss..?*​
Yes, deca and finasteride made me bald as ! 213.33%No, deca and finasteride had little affect on my hair1386.67%


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

I have read many times that using Finasteride with Deca is a bad idea and will actually make you lose hair . On the other hand I've some say thats it's total bull**** and using Deca with Fina will be fine and not cause major hairloss. I do not know the science behind this so I was hoping someone here could explain it . I am prone to baldness gear or no gear but still have been able to keep most of my hair.

http://ergo-log.com/nandrolonefinasteride.html

I've added a poll to see how many on here have used deca and fina?

Any Input Welcome


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Sub-Zero said:


> I have read many times that using Finasteride with Deca is a bad idea and will actually make you lose hair . On the other hand I've some say thats it's total bull**** and using Deca with Fina will be fine and not cause major hairloss. I do not know the science behind this so I was hoping someone here could explain it . I am prone to baldness gear or no gear but still have been able to keep most of my hair.
> 
> http://ergo-log.com/nandrolonefinasteride.html
> 
> ...


nandrolone CANNOT cause hair loss...

its reduced by 5-AR to dihydronandrolone- do a search for that and hair loss- NOT ONE academic/scientific reference.. all hearsay on various steroid boards by people with no idea....

LOOK, MPB is DHT related.. DHN IS NOT DHT.

SIMPLES.

If you are SUPER Concerned, or DONT BELIEVE THE SCIENCE, then take trenbolone- its also based on PROGESTERONE (Same as nandrolone) BUT doesn't get reduced by 5-AR..

either are fine.. the point is, both nandrolone and trenbolone are progestin based, 19-nortestosterne deriveatives.

Everything else is a DHT derivative, or converts to DHT (i.e test converts ot DHT).

Look at the basics of MPB:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldness

once and for all, DHN is not DHT...


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> nandrolone CANNOT cause hair loss...
> 
> its reduced by 5-AR to dihydronandrolone- do a search for that and hair loss- NOT ONE academic/scientific reference.. all hearsay on various steroid boards by people with no idea....
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up Aus, is 0.5mg ED of dutasteride a good starting dose?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Sub-Zero said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Aus, is 0.5mg ED of dutasteride a good starting dose?


depends- if running a deca/tren cylce only, then use the same amount of duta non-bb would use...

if you run test, you need more...


----------



## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

sorry guys, i disagree

i was completely on the same thought process on this until i tried nandralone with dutasteride. the problem is without the a5 reduction to DHN the nandralone seems to have a really harsh androgenic effect on the hairline. the unreduced nandralone is much worse than DHN in terms of your hair.

i noticeably lost chunks of hair in as little as 2-3 weeks. i had to stop it was so ridiculous. second the npp cleared things were fine again...

thats just my experience. i really thought it was a myth up to that point.


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

Superhorse said:


> sorry guys, i disagree
> 
> i was completely on the same thought process on this until i tried nandralone with dutasteride. the problem is without the a5 reduction to DHN the nandralone seems to have a really harsh androgenic effect on the hairline. the unreduced nandralone is much worse than DHN in terms of your hair.
> 
> ...


See thats the thing lots of people reporting it's not a good idea, while the science says it should not be an issue to run both fina and deca together. I guess I'll have to run it for myself to see:confused1:

Superhorse, what dose fina did you use? did you drop the fina or NPP? my cycle will be Test and NPP


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Superhorse said:


> sorry guys, i disagree
> 
> i was completely on the same thought process on this until i tried nandralone with dutasteride. the problem is without the a5 reduction to DHN the nandralone seems to have a really harsh androgenic effect on the hairline. the unreduced nandralone is much worse than DHN in terms of your hair.
> 
> ...


mate i've posted about this on another thread with you..

you will get MPB regardless of AAS- most bald men are not on AAS...

FIND ME ONE scientific paper saying UNREDUCED nandralone causes hair loss ONE, JUST ONE!!!

you do know what happens with unreduced nandrolone don't you??

If you do.. reply...


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Sub-Zero said:


> See thats the thing lots of people reporting it's not a good idea, while the science says it should not be an issue to run both fina and deca together. I guess I'll have to run it for myself to see:confused1:
> 
> Superhorse, what dose fina did you use? did you drop the fina or NPP? my cycle will be Test and NPP


he, and others, didnt calc their 5-AR reducing dosage right..

there was a long thread on this..

basically- fina reduces 5-AR about 70%, duta, about 93% from memory..

5-7% of all test converts to DHT..

the dose of one duta a day is for MPB with a NON STEROID using male..

look at this way- TRT dose of test is about 250mg/3weeks..

everyone cruises on 250mg/week.. thats 3x the normal test dose in a man..

a cycle is usually at least 500mg/week.. so basically 6x the test in a man...

so if one fina tab, prevents 70% of a normal mans test to convert... can you see why taking 6x the test requires MORE THAN 6x the fina???


----------



## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

I took 1mg for weeks then upped it to 2.5mg. The difference between 1 and 2.5 is supposed to be minimal. You are talking about 90%+ at those doses.

When I stopped the nandralone I was still on test and turinabol. The hair loss was virtually zero on those. It was only the nandralone.

To further evidence this I also took some tren ace. No increase in hair loss on the tren and dutasteride.

You and I both know I can't present you a scientific paper. If I had a scientific paper saying this I wouldn't have tried it in the first place and wouldve kept my bloody hair!

I can't remember you replying on the other thread but i dont see how my personal experience here can be wrong. Just stating what happened to me.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Superhorse said:


> I took 1mg for weeks then upped it to 2.5mg. The difference between 1 and 2.5 is supposed to be minimal. You are talking about 90%+ at those doses.
> 
> When I stopped the nandralone I was still on test and turinabol. The hair loss was virtually zero on those. It was only the nandralone.
> 
> ...


hair loss is a HUGE industry and focus of research..

side effects of anabolic steroids are well known..

lets just focus on hairloss-

1.find articles that list what CAUSES MPB

2. find articles that show what happens to test when you take fina/duta... then.. lets apply that logic to deca...

what you REALLY need to understand is what happens to nandrolone in the when 5-AR does not act on it.. then we can examine ANY possible way it can affect your hairline...

I will give you a hint.. AAS.. do not stay in a free state for long.... HINT HINT SHBG....


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> he, and others, didnt calc their 5-AR reducing dosage right..
> 
> there was a long thread on this..
> 
> ...


Cheers Aus, makes more sense now regarding the dosages need for a guy on AAS.

So what happens to the unreduced Nandrolone?

Edit: just read your reply to super



Superhorse said:


> I took 1mg for weeks then upped it to 2.5mg. The difference between 1 and 2.5 is supposed to be minimal. You are talking about 90%+ at those doses.
> 
> When I stopped the nandralone I was still on test and turinabol. The hair loss was virtually zero on those. It was only the nandralone.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate


----------



## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> hair loss is a HUGE industry and focus of research..
> 
> side effects of anabolic steroids are well known..
> 
> ...


As I understand it hairloss is caused by (i) DHT and (ii) Androgenic activity on the scalp

I can only assume nandralone is hitting point (ii) as there is no real other rationale. It's same with people who lose hair on tren or even dbol I guess since DHT does not apply there.

The other benefit I understand is that taking the nandralone without dutasteride is that the DHN will compete at the receptor sites with DHT hence somewhat (and this is unquantified) reducing the effects of the test DHT.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Superhorse said:


> As I understand it hairloss is caused by (i) DHT and (ii) Androgenic activity on the scalp
> 
> I can only assume nandralone is hitting point (ii) as there is no real other rationale. It's same with people who lose hair on tren or even dbol I guess since DHT does not apply there.
> 
> The other benefit I understand is that taking the nandralone without dutasteride is that the DHN will compete at the receptor sites with DHT hence somewhat (and this is unquantified) reducing the effects of the test DHT.


good god man.. look at the basics:

DHT binds FAR more strongly than DHN:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3865479

you are merely regurgitating, what is written by others who have not at all examined the activity of these substances..

you will notice that and tissue with high elvels of androgen receptors (i.e prostate and scalp) DHT completely outcompetes DHN.. its only in periheral tissue such as muscle that this is not the case..

and again:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6891012

DHT binds far more stongly than Test, or nandro & DHN...

once again... the facts are out there..


----------



## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

I didn't say DHN bound more strongly than DHT, I just said it competes somewhat...

I'm not regurgitating anything. I lost a ton of hair and it is obvious it was down to the nandralone one way or another as test and turinabol had no effect and/or were offset by dutasteride. I'm not BSing or skipping facts. Nadralone commenced, hair fell out, nandralone stopped hair stopped falling out...it's pretty straightforward.

I read all the spurious crap out there and decided it was trash. Tried it myself and found it to be true, in my experience. What more can I say? I genuinely hope it doesn't affect anyone else in that way but I bet it will...


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> *nandrolone CANNOT cause hair loss...*
> 
> its reduced by 5-AR to dihydronandrolone- do a search for that and hair loss- NOT ONE academic/scientific reference.. all hearsay on various steroid boards by people with no idea....
> 
> ...


Wow, your really going for it in this thread. But you are wrong......

Good god man, one of the side effects of nandrolone is MPB  .

And you don't need a scientific study to know this.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Empire Boy said:


> How does nandrolone cause MPB? MPB is genetic I thought.


If thats what you think then why did you concur with Ausbuilt's post #2 in your post #5?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Mars said:


> Good god man, one of the side effects of nandrolone is MPB  .
> 
> And you don't need a scientific study to know this.


ah... the penny has dropped... it happens because it just does... or a mod has said so...

well, I may not be a mod.. but using this like of arguement I won't waste my time posting on the topic anymore- I may be a touch antagonistic when people just say "well it does x, so there!"

but i'm learning to relax.... and let it all goooooooo.....

PS. AAS make your peni$ bigger.. fact :devil2:


----------



## Sub-Zero (May 2, 2011)

Mars said:


> Wow, your really going for it in this thread. But you are wrong......
> 
> Good god man, one of the side effects of nandrolone is MPB  .
> 
> And you don't need a scientific study to know this.


Oh.. :confused1:

I was under the impression that Deca in general quite safe on the hairline, my thread was in relation to would using deca+fina cause more hairloss then using deca without finasteride???

Could you give more of an explanation Mars


----------



## Clawsman (Mar 20, 2012)

Helo Guys.

I was reading this thread and just had to register to coment this one!

Im 34 and have managed to keep my hair 11 years with Finasteride And Dutasteride

I have experimented 11 years with Testosterone, Nandrolone, methandrostenolone etc etc... almost everything called steroids and peptides.

that said.

i whould love to say.... SuperHorse and Mars.. you belive anything you read? Cuz you guys are ToTaLy WroNG! And Ausbuilt.. thumbs-up for you!

if anything.. testosterone and everything derived from DHT, converting to DHT kills hairfollic.. no matter how much Finasteride and Dutasteride you use. It KILL's the hair.

than again... most of the effect you are after, with using dht preps is lost...when using 5.alphaR innhibitor... right?

anyway... using Nandrolone and fina/dutasteride just makes my hair grow like h#%¤... i love that combination... i have experimented with it many times. And i am guru on the teory side...ausbuild have mentioned everything need to know..so..i wont even go there.

so yes... deca and fina story is a myth! Nandro AND DHN are both MUCH weaker than DHT. in FACT nandro works as a 5.alphaR inhibitor.

just to mention... when using deca and fina... some people notice that their hair may be falling out...if it aint just a placebo/panic.

In most cases that is ok...

BECAUSE....

if anyone here have used Finasteride/Duta with minoxidil (rogain) they will know... first thing happening when using those..is shedding! it will usually last for 2-3 weeks.. after that the hair will grow back thick as ever... well that is exactly what happens to me when im on deca and fina/duta.. i shed then it will stopp...and my hair grows back.NO NEED to PANIC

Its like a hair growth cure for me using those combined. for that i usually like to use nandro and fina for loong time.. usually 6-8 months at a time before PCT! For pct i use HTG after 3-4 weeks from first HCG shot i usually take a bloodtest to see my testosterone lvl to know how much or wich 5-A R innhibitor to use.

yes..you read this right... and my hair is thicker than it was before i started doing this. THANK YOU NANDRO & FINA


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Good post Claws!! I believe most people take fin/dut at too low a dose while running test and then blame the hair loss on the deca/tren stack, I was blasting and cruising last year for 10 months up to 1800mg test e, with 400mg tren a (EW), upped my dose of fin and dut to 10mg fin + 2.5mg dut (ED) and had zero hair loss, in fact I agree and concur that my hair is denser now than before I started. And people can say that "oh maybe you're not going to lose anymore hair anyway, well I went to a specialist HT doctor on Harley Street and was told I'm high risk to Norwood 6/7 without 5-ar inhibition, so there is some proof in the pudding for me!

Good point about the initial shedding upon treatment :thumbup1:


----------



## Superhorse (May 29, 2011)

You found benefits in running both fina and duta Conscript? (as opposed to duta alone?)


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Superhorse said:


> You found benefits in running both fina and duta Conscript? (as opposed to duta alone?)


My piece of mind and cost for starters, as well as anecdotal info I've read on the benefits of using fast and slow acting 5ar inhibs, such as sides control, and synergy of meds.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Clawsman said:


> Helo Guys.
> 
> I was reading this thread and just had to register to coment this one!
> 
> ...


But you have failed to tell your listening public weather you suffer from genetic mpb, like me???


----------



## Clawsman (Mar 20, 2012)

Thank you Conscript!

I agree on that. you are also right on the dosage. when having test in a cycle its a minimum with 5mg.. just say 1mg fina, pr 100mg test. And there is nothing wrong with blending duta and fina together. Althouuugh.. in my opinion.. you are wasting alot of your testo cycle.

Let me just inform you, that...

It takes a hair follic between 5-10 years before it shrinks totally like a rasin and dies... from the day it droppes the hair. So..what i have done successfully.

Is to use lower doses 5AR inhibts, under cycle,

then use moderat doses during PCT ...if so i usually have a longer PCT during this time.

Anyway both method works... people just have to remember the 5-10 year follic shrink and dont panic. its basically like ..spring.. on your head... the old hair must fall before new shiny one grows out.

Some people actually also say to me "maybe its an individual thing"... if like i wasnt from planet earth or maybe im an alien hybrid.

ash1981: yes.. i "suffer" from gen mpb. let me also promote minoxidil. it actually works...if you are one of the lucky 50% .

and its not bad to include the canadian shampoo "Nisim"

many try using minoxidil and forget about using a shampoo low on silicon... you guess what happens.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Clawsman said:


> Thank you Conscript!
> 
> I agree on that. you are also right on the dosage. when having test in a cycle its a minimum with 5mg.. just say 1mg fina, pr 100mg test. And there is nothing wrong with blending duta and fina together. Althouuugh.. in my opinion.. you are wasting alot of your testo cycle.
> 
> ...


What worries me about fina and duta is the supposed long term sides, and loss of libido whilst on


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

ash1981 said:


> What worries me about fina and duta is the supposed long term sides, and loss of libido whilst on


Why not just cycle it when using test then, just to keep dht from rising excessively? I plan on using them long term until something better comes a long, which it will, but I also plan on using AAS for a few years to come as well, so dht is not low for years on end, when you're taking test even with dut/fin you are still getting a fair whack of dht, say for instance you inhibit 90% (with fin/dut) of conversion from test to dht on 500mg test per week....6mg dht per 100mg test X 5 = 30mg - 90% (27mg) = 3mg dht...compare to (18-21 yo male)...6mg dht per 100mg test x 0.5 = 3mg dht...same levels...with no accelerated hair loss


----------



## Clawsman (Mar 20, 2012)

ash1982:

All side effects reverse after ceasing! If you get any sides at all...

There are some that claim they suffer years after ceasing. But its not known why.

Maybe they suffer a bit before starting using Fina/Duta?

They seem to forget the power of thought. Every menn knows the power of thought when having sex...right? unlike women...

So what is worst than performance anxiety on the sex front.

I usually have a pack of 100 cialis in case.... problem solved

ps. that pack of 100 cialis comes to use anyway.


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Good point Claws, you hear lots of guys complain about the sides of these drugs, but what about lifestyle, knowledge, genetics and psychology...these all play a valuable part in peoples well being....got guys complaining of impotence and lethargy in their 20's after smoking for 10 years, eating sh1t, no exercises, maybe not much in way of sex life but then blame 1mg of fin ed for 6 weeks for all their troubles.....sides are subjective, in many cases!


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ok con and claw would you continue fina into pct?


----------



## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Clawsman said:


> ash1982:
> 
> All side effects reverse after ceasing! If you get any sides at all...


Are you sure about that? over 2000 members disagree, apologies if i come across as abrupt. http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/index.php


----------



## Clawsman (Mar 20, 2012)

andysutils said:


> Are you sure about that? over 2000 members disagree, apologies if i come across as abrupt. http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/index.php


well.. and again..

there are over 2.1 billion people that belive in Adam and Eve story, and that the earth is only 5000 years old. Dinosaurs...? God put them here to test us...

Yes i am indeed sure about this. in teory... it is no way your body will produce natural 5AR innhibitors...after quiting the meds.

if anything... your body will actually get a DHT boost after stopping depress of 5AR enzymes.

The genetics play their role.. they will try and keep things the way they are programmed... agree?

So.. like Conscript says... there are other things that play a major role on this.

people believ muscles on steroid is only air.

I had this guy coming up to me and say "those muscles are only air"... having alcohol in my blood... i grab that guy and lifted him 20cm from the ground and repeated "Only AiR!?"

yes they think its like baloon... because most people using roids dont even know what PCT is...

they dont even bother to think "how is my body going to be able to keep all these gains when my ba#¤% dont produce any testosterone"

so..like a baloon, they are back at basic.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

See this is the problem with this stuff, its not a size fits all thing


----------



## Clawsman (Mar 20, 2012)

no no...

my reply to andysutil is coming up... just suddenly have to wait for aproval from mod..


----------



## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Clawsman said:


> no no...
> 
> my reply to andysutil is coming up... just suddenly have to wait for aproval from mod..


look forward to it, I find these fina/duta discussions very interesting.


----------



## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

I was browsing a site, looking for articles on an enzyme, when I came across this:-

http://www.ergo-log.com/nandrolonefinasteride.html

*Nandrolone finasteride combination increases androgenic side effects, not more effective*

*Chemical athletes who want to increase the effectiveness of nandrolone decanoate by adding finasteride [structural formula shown below] will be disappointed. A Population Council study shows that the combination raises the androgenic side effects of nandrolone but won't give you a single gram more muscle mass. *

I remembered this thread as soon as I saw it. It looks like a combo of the two...well..receding hairline. Like the Verve sang

"The drugs don't work, they just make you worse, but I know I'll see your face extend"

But it seems a little more complex than this, as far as MPB goes, because of the mild nature of DHN compared to DHT. And a few people who have used them a lot seem very sure that the two together improve their hair thickness.


----------



## tpeter (May 19, 2011)

I would like to hear more about this.. Im getting back on Fin and possibly trying Dut soon to try and get back whats been lost on last few years of cycling.


----------



## Ash1981 (Jun 16, 2009)

Not sure you will get anything back tbh


----------



## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

My last blast I ran test/deca/tren with dut and fin - no hair loss


----------



## DELxxxBOY (Oct 6, 2011)

Conscript said:


> My last blast I ran test/deca/tren with dut and fin - no hair loss


Same... Used deca test fina at 5mg day no shedding ;-) ... Myth in my eyes


----------



## riloal (Aug 12, 2011)

HI, very interesting thread i,m on fin and dut. I want to try a cycle with deca or npp. Conscript or clawsman have you used NPP? Would be safe for hair loss like with deca? Thanks


----------



## Chris86 (Oct 17, 2011)

riloal said:


> HI, very interesting thread i,m on fin and dut. I want to try a cycle with deca or npp. Conscript or clawsman have you used NPP? Would be safe for hair loss like with deca? Thanks


It's the same thing man if u have no problems with deca u won't have any problems with npp


----------



## JSS (Apr 19, 2014)

Any new updates on this topic? I am starting a test and deca cycle and wondering if i should include 1.25g of fina a day. Thread starter have you tried the deca and test combo with a dht blocker yet? I am prone to MPB just like you and wondering if you ended up trying it and reacted well?


----------



## DELxxxBOY (Oct 6, 2011)

JSS said:


> Any new updates on this topic? I am starting a test and deca cycle and wondering if i should include 1.25g of fina a day. Thread starter have you tried the deca and test combo with a dht blocker yet? I am prone to MPB just like you and wondering if you ended up trying it and reacted well?


Iv used deca 3 times with test no problems i use 2mg fina a day on blast.. I have mpb aswell


----------

