# Pro Hormone Question



## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Okay...

Firstly this isn't a "I want to take Pro Hormones can anyone help me out" question... I'm just a bit confused and want some more info.

Steroids are an active hormone as are Pro Steroids, but Steroids are a controlled substance and Pro Steroids are either available OTC or they were until recently yes?

Pro Hormones are 1 atom behind Steroids/Pro Steroids, are orally taken and the liver does the conversion to the steroid hormone, and again are either available OTC or they were until recently yes?

So therefore as Pro Hormones turn into steroids, proper PCT must be run in the 'standard form' and diet and training must be set up as though the person were on steroids yes?

So my question is given some of these Pro Hormones appear to have side effects just as harsh as steroids, they seem to be as easy to get hold of (providing you have a 'source'), appear to be a bit more costly (again price would depend on 'source') and yet the gains appear to be *less *that you could expect on an actual cycle... Why do people run them...?

Is it just so they feel they can say they are natural...? Or is it all to do with the legality...? Or am I missing something that Pro Hormones bring to the table...?

Cheers Gents.

(Oh and before anyone says 'search' or 'research' I've read pretty much all the posts in this section along with the normal googling...  )


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## razg (Nov 23, 2004)

People use PH over AAS for the same reason they use PS over AAS. Legal, easy to get hold of, less guilt about it seeming bad.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

So PH and PS are still legal in this country...? Wasn't sure if they were banned now - I know they are in the states.


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## razg (Nov 23, 2004)

Specific compounds are banned, not the class of drugs.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

I've never understood the reasoning behind taking PH.

If you want those sorts of gains then why not just take soem gear? especially as the sides are normally the same.

I think its to do with the kidding factor i.e. 'oh Im not a roid head I take prohormones'


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Cheers Raz.

Carrying on... Are any Pro Hormones *more* effective than oral steroids...? (I know its not quite comparing apples with apples...)

For example 1-Test/1AD is apparently 700% more anabolic than Test (which obviously you can't easily take orally...) but has a study been done which compares the effectiveness of Pro Hormones against Oral Steroids...?

If 1-Test was so much more anabolic than Test, then surely everyone and his dog (chequer drops anyone...?) would be doing it, but from what I can see - gains are less on Pro Hormones so are we just dealing with alot of marketing hype...?


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

TinyTom said:


> I've never understood the reasoning behind taking PH.
> 
> If you want those sorts of gains then why not just take soem gear? especially as the sides are normally the same.
> 
> I think its to do with the kidding factor i.e. 'oh Im not a roid head I take prohormones'


Yeah I think so to... More accurate names which keep cropping up on the web are 'designer steroids' and 'steroid precursors'

I think there is alot of stigma associated with taking steroids, which I think is to do with the stigma associated with any kind of drugs which require needles...


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

PH are such a load of bullsh*t

If they were that good then they'd be illegal

The only reason why such things get made illegal is that the FDA in the US start getting worried about kids taking them to excess to produce steroid liek results. Obviously overdosing on a product that requires liver activity to reduce them or whatever into steroids has serious health implications if used to excess.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Interestingly enough I first heard about them through an American friend of mine who was given them to 'make him stronger' when playing American Football when he was about 15...


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## bulldozer1466867928 (Oct 8, 2006)

I have read tonnes of threads on PH and it seems to me the sides can be worse than a simple d bol cycle.

I agree with Tom, PH are boll*cks, just use some gear !


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Not planning using... Just topping up my knowledge levels...


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Thought I'd post these here as I had some random thoughts whilst brushing my teeth this morning...

Is testicular atrophy only counteracted during pct...? And by that I mean is testicular atrophy required in order for a cycle to work...?

I know taking something like nolva all the way through any given cycle will reduce the amount of estrogen aromatisation to reduce the possibility of getting gyno, and that HCG can reduce any atrophy caused while on cycle, but am I right in thinking some people are now taking it during cycle...?


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## bulldozer1466867928 (Oct 8, 2006)

TallHeavyAndSkinny said:


> Is testicular atrophy only counteracted during pct...? And by that I mean is testicular atrophy required in order for a cycle to work...?
> 
> I know taking something like nolva all the way through any given cycle will reduce the amount of estrogen aromatisation to reduce the possibility of getting gyno, and that HCG can reduce any atrophy caused while on cycle, but am I right in thinking some people are now taking it during cycle...?


Yes hcg is run throughout most people's cycles mate. Especially heavier cycles.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

So testicular atrophy isn't required for a successful cycle bow that HCG is available...?

But the shutdown of natural test production is required...?


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## bulldozer1466867928 (Oct 8, 2006)

TallHeavyAndSkinny said:


> So testicular atrophy isn't required for a successful cycle bow that HCG is available...?
> 
> But the shutdown of natural test production is required...?


Dude your really asking the wrong person here lol.

Atrophy is a side effect of your body shutting down natural test. So no its not required for a successful cycle no.

Shutdown of natural test is again a side effect, because you have injected yourself with test the body shuts its natural production down. So its not required, its a side effect


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Sorry mate it wasn't directly directed at you


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## mrhulahoop (Oct 29, 2006)

Not required it just happens for obvious reasons.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

(Hula am I right in thinking you have run a PH cycle in the past...?)


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Interesting opinions on Pro-hormones/Pro-steroids here. 

I myself have been investigating the claims made by some of the PH/PS users, and so have decided to run an experiment to see just how useful they are.

As a past 'Gear' user, I have, this week, begun a PH/PS cycle to see how they fair against 'the real thing'.

I began on monday using 1-AD/1-Test, which I intend on running for 3 weeks. i will then follow this up with Hyperdrol, which is supposed to be non-toxic and not requiring any PCT, which will be run for about 2 months.

Not doing this for any other reason than to appease my own inquisitiveness.

We'll see how the experiment works  ....So far, I am open minded!!


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Big Cat on T-Nation did a similar thing with interesting results. He also used a PH Spray on his shoulders and chest which made them look huge during the use of the spray, and then the dropped off later (which indicates water retention)

Neil - will you be doing a log of your results...? I'm not planning on using but I always find things like that fascinating.


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## bulldozer1466867928 (Oct 8, 2006)

TallHeavyAndSkinny said:


> Big Cat on T-Nation did a similar thing with interesting results. He also used a PH Spray on his shoulders and chest which made them look huge during the use of the spray, and then the dropped off later (which indicates water retention)
> 
> Neil - will you be doing a log of your results...? I'm not planning on using but I always find things like that fascinating.


Its amazing how differnt the views are on AAS / PH/PS usage in the states compared to the uk. We all certainly have different ideas.

Will be interesting to see your results Neil, how long have you been clean for mate?


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

PMSL - 'clean'


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

I cleaned out just after the NABBA North-East in April, so about 5 months.

It was getting to point where their was no real challenge in using gear. As I documented in an earlier thread i can use a mildish cycle and gain 15-18 lbs quite easily. So I cleaned out to give myself a fresh challenge.

This is just a new challenge! 

Monitoring wise I've just weighed myself & taken measurements. I'll also keep an eye on strength gains too.

Will do the same at the end of the 1-AD part of the cycle & again after the hyperdrol, that way I get a feeler for how each one works.


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## ross_lionheart (Aug 3, 2006)

TinyTom said:


> PH are such a load of bullsh*t
> 
> If they were that good then they'd be illegal
> 
> The only reason why such things get made illegal is that the FDA in the US start getting worried about kids taking them to excess to produce steroid liek results. Obviously overdosing on a product that requires liver activity to reduce them or whatever into steroids has serious health implications if used to excess.


I couldn't have said it better myself! I've used some of the most popular pro-hormones on the market such as Bio tests Alpha Male and Axis-HT at the highest recommended dosage and they have done very little for me in the testosterone department.

I've used the supplements for the recommended amount of time stated by the company's and after much experimentation I've came to the conclusion that these supplements are simply overrated and overpriced not just by the manufacturer but by people who claim to have gained serious amounts of muscle mass on these "replacements for steroids".

I've always tried to convince myself that these supplements are worth the money and I've used them time and time again because I've been told by others that I aspire to being that "perhaps you need to try another pro-hormone" or even "your testosterone levels must already be too high". I'm not that gullible anymore, If I want to spend my hard earned cash on something it will be the real deal not a crap equivalent that doesn't live up to the reputation that it portrays.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Neil R said:


> I began on monday using 1-AD/1-Test, which I intend on running for 3 weeks. i will then follow this up with Hyperdrol, which is supposed to be non-toxic and not requiring any PCT, which will be run for about 2 months.


Neil - following your 3 weeks on 1-AD/1-Test are you using the 8 weeks of HyperDrol to replace PCT are would be required when running a course of PS/PH...?

Which if I have my facts right would mean you should keep all of your gains and experience little or no shutdown...?


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

TallHeavyAndSkinny said:


> Neil - following your 3 weeks on 1-AD/1-Test are you using the 8 weeks of HyperDrol to replace PCT ...


No, I'm giving the HyperdrolX2 a try just to see what happens.

I have some AromX to use as PCT...which is AMS version of Novadex XT



> Which if I have my facts right would mean you should keep all of your gains and experience little or no shutdown...?


Here's hoping!


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

this should be interesting. I bet ur not expecting too much though neil. What dosages are you running with these PHs??


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Doses are

1-AD 2 caps/day first 6 days

3 caps/day for next 15 days, then

HyperdrolX2 4 caps per day for 60 days.

Not sure what to expect from the 1-AD, but with the HDx2 most users are getting a 5-10lb gain in a month, so that could give a 10-20lb gain in the 2 months i'm using it. But i won't hold my breath  .

As I said, it's an experiment, so no expectations really.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Neil - where did you read about the 5-10lbgain per month?

I'd read it was a 5-10lb LBM gain over 12weeks with a reduction in fat of 3-6lbs over the same period (I think that was on their site...)

It will certainly be interesting either way.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Scrolling through various forums where people have run 4 week cycles of HDx2. Most reported a difference in bodyweight post/pre cycle ranging from 5lb (least) to 10lbs(highest).

I opted to scan forums, as opposed to the marketing hype, to try guage a more accurate 'real-life' result expectation.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

sitries said:


> this should be interesting. I bet ur not expecting too much though neil. What dosages are you running with these PHs??


You were right about me not expecting much, however, I appear to have had my doubts somewhat made a mockery of....

Took measurements this morning (Pre-Refeed!)

Gains are:-

Chest = +2"

Arms - L= + 3/8" R = +1/4

Thigh - L = + 3/4" R = +1 & 1/8"

Calf - L = + 3/8" R = + 5/8"

Waist - + 3/4"

Weight - +10 lb

Gym progress:-

Chins - 7.5kg Increase

Rows (machine) - 7.5kg Increase

High pulls - 15kg Increase

Smith press behind neck - 17.5 kg Increase

Leg press - 70lb Increase

Leg ext - 7.5kg Increase

Press ups - 5kg Increase

Cant get the comparison for Incline chest as I switched from Presses to flyes.

But not bad for only 3 weeks! 

And dieting too!!!


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

So thats 3 weeks on 1AD yes?

The Hyperdrol will be the interesting one I think...


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Yep!!

6 days @ 2 caps and 15 days @ 3 caps.

Hyperdrol will be 4 caps a day to start.

Next weighing & measuring will be in 30 days!


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

(Are you left handed by the way?)


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

TallHeavyAndSkinny said:


> (Are you left handed by the way?)


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Hah. Your left bicep and right thigh & calf grew bigger than their opposing sides.

Classic left hander.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

some goos results there neil. Is there any gain in weight??? i know this would be distorted anyway as you are dieting and not bulking.

keep us posted


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Weight gain from the 1-AD was 10 lbs.

I'd have been interested to see what the gain would have been if I had been utilising a higher carb offseason diet!?!?


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## Tom84 (Dec 12, 2005)

I used 1AD way back when it was legal. I thought it was great


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

i didnt like it-most awful sides...serious lethergy, but then i was using more than stated on the bottle 

fcuking loved 5AD tho


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## mrhulahoop (Oct 29, 2006)

I used more than it stated on the bottle. Good results, shut me down but no lethargy or anything.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

10lbs is an awesome amount to gain on low carbs. especially as youv got a fair few steroid cycles under your belt. iv been going on steroid.com lately and some of the guys on there just dont seem to have a clue. the "more is better" philosopy seems to be a lot of those guys problem. They seem to jump into gear and high doses without proper diet and training and their minimal gains prove this.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

And whats worse is that mentallity is spreading over here!

People always want the easy way out, and would much rather take more drugs than actually look at thier training and dietary input; which, 9 times out of 10, is where that actual problem lies!


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

agreed! some of the guys on there are like 21 and have 3 heavy cycles under their belts already! ****ed up if u ask me. Whats also ****ed up is the amount of guys on there are complaining of no sex drive and having HRT


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Neil R said:


> Yep!!
> 
> 6 days @ 2 caps and 15 days @ 3 caps.
> 
> ...


What happened with your Hyperdrol Neil? As was I 'right' (sic) about you being a lefty?


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Okay, stats/improvements time!

This is some wierd sh1t but check it out:-

Bodyweight = -5lbs









Chest = + 1/4 "

Arms L = + 1/8" R = +1/8"

Quads L = + 3/4" R = +1/8"

Calf L = + 1/8" R = +1/8"

Waist = -3/8"

Hips = -1&1/8"

CG chin = + 7.5kg

CG row (machine) = +7.5kg

High Pulls = + 10kg

Press behind neck (smith) = +5kg

Leg Ext = +7.5kg

Leg Press = +75lb

Incl DB flyes = +15lbs (each)

Press ups = + 12.5kg

Dips = + 7.5kg

These are just from the last 4 weeks so can be added to the previous figures for the 8 week total.

So i've dropped 5 lbs bodyweight but measurements have gone up. It seems obvious therefore from the reduction in waist & hip figures that i've dropped some bodyfat whilst simultaneously adding lean tissue.

Oh and No i'm not a lefty


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

just checking-is cissus quadrangulus the ingredient that is doing the good stuff?


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

145lbs increase on your leg press over 8 weeks?? Heck.

Is that due to a re-introduction of the exercise and therefore CNS re-adaptation / modification of your training cycle / or simply put down to the Hyperdrol and the 1AD...?

What sides if any did you get from the Hyperdrol?

So you got 1.5in on the left thigh and 0.25in on the right thigh? Has that corrected or promoted an imbalance in your thighs?


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

crazycal1 said:


> just checking-is cissus quadrangulus the ingredient that is doing the good stuff?


Don't actually know, they don't say how much CQ is in it.

They claim the active ingredient is the 6 Bromo


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

TallHeavyAndSkinny said:


> 145lbs increase on your leg press over 8 weeks?? Heck.
> 
> Is that due to a re-introduction of the exercise and therefore CNS re-adaptation / modification of your training cycle / or simply put down to the Hyperdrol and the 1AD...?
> 
> ...


Increase is a product of all 3 I recon.

No sides felt from the Hyperdrol, they greater increase in the left leg is due to me specifically focusing on that as my left leg is slightly smaller than my right so i'm looking to improve the symmetry.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

some awesome results then neil. good going. So Phs all rubbish like ppl say they are then. how much have you held onto following pct. it will be interesting to see how much you keep in size and strength over the next 2-3months.


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## Neil R (Oct 29, 2006)

Not finished with 'em yet 

Am onto a 3 week "hit" of Pheraplex (3 a day) and Hyperdrol X2 (5 a day), then PCT will start. Probably for 2 or 3 weeks. I then intend on having 6-8 weeks off everything at which point I will possibly do another gear cycle.

Yeah, so far they been REAL sh1t!! LMFAO


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