# Never thought I'd join a forum but frustrated and need advice from veterans



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

Hi All,

Need some good advice as I'm getting frustrated fast!

From Liverpool originally and now based in London so maybe "LondonLad" in my title isn't quite right in my title, anyhow...

*Bit about my context:*

I've been in the gym 3/4 times a week now for a year. I'm 6'3" was 90kg now 103kg but still looking a bit lanky. Had 2 PT sessions, drink protein shakes and take creatine, eat good amount of food including proteins and cannot now put any more muscle on as I hit a ceiling. I've stopped CV to reduce lost calories also. I don't look that muscly as I'm lanky tall. I don't want to look like mr. universe, just maybe a rugby player physique so maybe 130kg with my height over the course of a year or two. I've researched juicing/roids and decided to go for it. Spend more than 40 hours online, read 5 online books and watched countless youtube vids.

*Help needed*

*
*

None of my mates juice, go to a 'poncey' gym in central london where noone looks like they could help me (including the trainers!) and been ripped off online (I'm really annoyed about!). I've got the green and blue pins from an exchange so that side's sorted. Turns out they're all (i believe) fake. I don't want to start asking at the gym either as they don't know me and the gym is full of posh people who might be judgmental and offended.

I realise that it's not best to be open about all the details but need some guidance in two ways really (1) need pointers / connections (2) advice around how to train whilst 'on programme' to get the most gains - i've heard it's all about high reps and pumps but want someone who knows to advise me

I've read all about (all theory again!) the stacks, PCT, methods etc.. and have come up with the following (please comment also): 300mg Deca weekly 8 weeks on / 8 weeks PCT with Nolvadex/ Proviron and Chlomid. I was thinking of stacking Dianabol but I don't need super quick transformation so guess that Deca only cycle will give me what I need.

Thanks for reading and welcome any help you guys can give, greatly apreciated

Also feel free to PM me whatever

L


----------



## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Welcome mate


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

Welcome aboard..By the way that 8 week on deca thing is rubbish.


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

So would you recommend? I'm trying to keep side affects down so don't want to go with anything too aggressive, and also want to keep the gains when I'm off cycle.. How about Sus 250/300 weekly, with PCT?


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

If you want to jump in and try a cycle.

A simple test enanthate would be my first stop.

You're a big lad so I would use 300-500 mg a week for 12 weeks

1000iu of HCG a week from week 2 -10

PCT of clomid and nolva week 13-16

100/50/50/50 clomid

20/20/20/20 nolva

This is just a recommendation and others may have more suggestions for you

nearly forgot to mention an AI ,It is advisable to run one throughout cycle.


----------



## nickdutch (Aug 21, 2013)

Welcome, but do be careful. I am in a similar boat. I even decided to succum to the temptation and purchased some "havoc" which is a prohormone. Didn't like it at all and even threw the lot away after having had just ONE 10 mg pill not even the three that some people take each day. That was literally after just ONE! Each person will reach differently to each substance and in my case it wasn't for me, so I have gone back to the idea of just doing the best that I can with my thin frame.

The "havoc"gave me a burning red face, made my heart beat so fast that it seemed like the valved in the heart couldn't keep up with how fast the heart was pumping and that was scary enough. Then after that i felt like all the poisons in the world had been released into my circulation and I was instinctively drawn to vitamin C and raw vegetables and fruit as an attempt to clear the poisons out of my body.

Maybe my history (over 10 years ago) of alcoholism had slowed down my body's ability to remove poisons from the system or something I don't know, but i just felt rank for a few days and it felt like my balls had been hit with a plank of wood too.

On the up side, during the workout I did get an almost martial artist quality of mental focus and tonnes more energy to put into the workout and yes, even after just that ONE capsule, there was DEFINITELY a seriously noticeable increase in muscle hardness, mass and definition.

But at what cost? My point I will reiterate, each of us will reach differently to the things that we buy. For me, natural and slow is evidently best.

For you, it may be different, but i dont want to put my body on a roulette wheel


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

Thanks Nick, appreciate the reply and concern

I've considered this for a while now. For me it's about the risk and the reward. I'm ready for 1st cycle and will stop if anything really bad happens - just as you did. I'll manage the risk by starting slow and stopping straight away if something bad happens. The reward will be size gains hopefully and likewise will stop if the balance isn't worth it

Always best being careful I agree


----------



## naturalun (Mar 21, 2014)

Well as for asking for connections nobody here will give you a connection including myself, it just won't happen mate. If you look around you can find it, just be careful... Once you find one you'll find 50 lol.


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

Our of things. You need to do more reading as your conclusions after 40 hours reading aren't good start, and you missed out reading the rules about asking for sources.

Also your goal weight of 130kg, but you don't want to be too big so just over 20 stone then, that would make you 1 of the biggest on here, so definitely more reading.

Oh and in a year or two very good luck with that!!!


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

Thanks for your posts all so far. Perhaps asking for sources I've realised, now I've fully read the forum rules, is a bad idea so I retract that now as I don't want to get any one else or myself in trouble.

I have to have a stretch target although 130kg is ambitious I agree but I always aim high... but over two years i want another 25kg (I am 6 foot 3!)


----------



## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

If you cannot gear, there are decent prohormones for a first cycle - Superdrol etc. These are legal and can be purchased from 'proper' websites online.


----------



## Alanricksnape (Apr 5, 2013)

I agree with what gearchange said if you want to take the plunge (pardon the pun).

Going with deca only is a bad idea in my opinion, for anyone, not just as a first cycle. Not even taking into account that you're only looking to run it for 8 weeks. Everyone is different but from my experience the deca would only properly be kicking in at week 6, then you're stopping a fortnight later. So for what will likely be minimal changes you're shutting yourself down hard with a 19-nor that's notorious for causing problems in that regard. I'd recommend NPP for similar benefits without such long lasting negative effects, but not for a first cycle and not without some test. I'd also half the length of the PCT you had planned, as gearchange pointed out. What he said would be far better for you than what you had planned and if you are set on going for it then I'd cycle with what he listed and forget about what you were going to do. Keep in mind that it's a marathon, not a sprint.


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

After deciding to go ahead with 400mg p/w Test Cyp / Ami and PCT cycle

Can anyone recommend a good 4 day gym routine that will maximise my gains. I don't lift on weekends - that's my time off. so what I'm after is basically:

- exercise type

- reps

- sets

by day that suits the juiced regime i'm following as above

Thanks in advance !!!


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

After deciding to go ahead with 400mg p/w Test Cyp / Ami and PCT cycle

Can anyone recommend a good 4 day gym routine that will maximise my gains. I don't lift on weekends - that's my time off. so what I'm after is basically:

- exercise type

- reps

- sets

by day that suits the juiced regime i'm following as above

I'm ex-military so know my way around a gym - what I don't know is the difference in training required to maximise a juiced context. I.e. I've read conflicting advice around recovery periods, set and rep numbers and technique forms etc etc

Thanks in advance !!!


----------



## dann19900 (Dec 29, 2012)

you put on 13kg in year. Just do whatever you thinks best and you'll likely put on roughly the same, probably a bit more in the next year.

Although I'm not sure if you meant you're struggling to put on muscle or weight in general. I personally find it harder to gain weight on steroids (water not included)than off, just a lot more of what i do gain is muscle rather than fat


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

Dann

that's a good point as it's my first time and not sure how I'll react in terms of pure muscle gain. If I'm not gaining muscle only (and retaining it) then I'll reconsider a second cycle.

That's why I'm after a juiced programme (or links to some good 'uns) so I can 'make hay while the sun shines'

Cheers


----------



## HalfManHalfRusk (Mar 16, 2014)

If you don't want to pin and don't to go with relatively unknown prohormones, there is always an oral like Anavar? Google the **** out of it for weeks and weeks, then plan and post it on here. You have to treat it with the respect it deserves.


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

Nah I'm gonna do it properly and get big - pins and all.

Managed 20 chin ups today so pretty happy


----------



## realgains89 (May 10, 2014)

welcome


----------



## londonLad1979 (May 25, 2014)

OK no-one gonna help with programme?

Some friendly people here but advice sucks ass


----------



## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

londonLad1979 said:


> OK no-one gonna help with programme?
> 
> Some friendly people here but advice sucks ass


Nope, you're certainly not getting value here with all the investment of time and money you've put in, I'd complain to the owners and get your money back.


----------



## BettySwallocks (Aug 1, 2012)

nickdutch said:


> Welcome, but do be careful. I am in a similar boat. I even decided to succum to the temptation and purchased some "havoc" which is a prohormone. Didn't like it at all and even threw the lot away after having had just ONE 10 mg pill not even the three that some people take each day. That was literally after just ONE! Each person will reach differently to each substance and in my case it wasn't for me, so I have gone back to the idea of just doing the best that I can with my thin frame.
> 
> The "havoc"gave me a burning red face, made my heart beat so fast that it seemed like the valved in the heart couldn't keep up with how fast the heart was pumping and that was scary enough. Then after that i felt like all the poisons in the world had been released into my circulation and I was instinctively drawn to vitamin C and raw vegetables and fruit as an attempt to clear the poisons out of my body.
> 
> ...


Sorry mate but 10mg of epistane didnt do that to you. It was all in your head.


----------



## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi


----------



## GaryMatt (Feb 28, 2014)

If you go gear, @gearchange knows his stuff.


----------



## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

londonLad1979 said:


> OK no-one gonna help with programme?
> 
> Some friendly people here but advice sucks ass


A good place to start is to work on your compound lifts; squats, deadlifts, bench, overhead press, dips, pull ups, chin ups (if you're doing 20 then get yourself a dip belt and start using weights - same goes with pull ups and dips).

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/321268234014

Dumbbells and the barbell should be your first port of call before you even think about sitting at some ****ty machine or smith machine - don't be a tit. Shoulder press with dumbbells, dumbell and barbell rows - dumbbells are very beneficial for exposing imbalances and working on them to make sure that your left and right side of the body are as strong as each other so try to do dumbbell work as much as you do barbell. Romanian deadlifts for hammies and glutes..

As a beginner - keep things simple. Don't do everything and you don't need to be doing 4 exercises and silly amounts of sets and reps per body part. Pick what you enjoy and what you want to excel at, and you should aim for more of a high frequency program (each body part 2-3 times per week) - as long as you're basing your training around compounds. As I said before if you go for squats, deadlifts and bench as your 3 staple lifts, you can't go wrong. Basic fundamentals work for a reason.

Anyway... that's just some suggestions but you obviously need to go and have a look at some programs that might appeal to you but I definitely DO NOT suggest you do some advanced 4 or 5 day split because you'll be making SLOW progress on those programs where you only train each body part once per week and also.... stay away (for the most part) from isolation exercises at this stage. There is NO point in you doing any silly curls. I see so many silly skinny lanky dudes with arms the size of my thumb... standing at the mirror doing curls. That is not going to build the foundation you need.

Less is more.

Also - you're 6'3 and you said you've reduced calories? Why? You are going to have to eat more, not less.

Get yourself an app (I use MyNetDiary) to track calories so that you can get an idea of the macros you need to be hitting and so you're not aiming in the dark and slowing down progress. You can't outtrain a **** diet.

First of all - read this article:

http://www.t-nation.com/workouts/total-body-training

Then, check out some articles and YouTube.

And have a browse of some other programs online. Look for beginner programs because they aim to build the foundation you need, with optimal efficiency.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/start-here-start-now-the-8-week-beginner-workout-plan.html

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/rippetoe-wichita-falls-novice-program.html

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/3day-beginners-workout.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beginner-to-advanced-bodybuilder-in-12-weeks.html

I hope this helps you get started.


----------



## Gym-pig (Jun 25, 2008)

" eat a good amount of food "

The fact you cant list it makes me think this is either not true or the wrong stuff


----------



## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

amazing how fast op went from having 'no connections' to doing a cycle 

* if you stop saying 'juicing' and 'roids' you might be taken more seriously and people wont think you are 12 , the term you need to use is AAS.

*there are stickys in all the forums that contain a large amount of valuable information.


----------

