# insulin help please



## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

i have novorapid insulin novopen

i plan to start course in 5 weeks time

insulin only once day post workout

i know people start at 2iu but i will start at 1iu for first day is this sensible or pointless?

do i increase iu i inject every workout or do i do this once week ?

for every iu i inject i must consume 10 grams of carbs, can i consume more just to be on safe side ?

can i consume these just before i inject or do i have to consume them immediately after injection or wait 10 mins ?

i read that regardless of iu injected i eat at least 100 grams of carbs is this rubbish ?

is dextrose the best source of carbs ?or vitargo? or micronized oats? or malotodextrin ?or a mix of these ?

when should i test my blood sugar levels ?

what would you recommend for a meal 1 hour after after injection ? can i eat can tuna in water and white or brown rice ?

i have read peak is approx 2 hours what should i be eating /consuming at this time ?

i would also like to add 60 grams of protein powder drink , 15grams glutamine and 15 grams creatine in with meals but also unsure of timing with these?

im aware of risks so i would like to stay under 5iu max to start with on my first course

my friend will be with me when i inject is 2 hours long enough to check im ok ?

should i buy a glucogen pen just incase it all goes wrong ?

im 36 5' 8" 100kg and 10-12% bf

im not using it with a course of test or hgh as i want to find out how i respond to just insulin to start with

sorry for all questions any help greatly appreciated


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

It sounds to me like you need to do a little more reading before jumping in bed with insulin

This is not something you should do with out being 100% clued up as it can kill you


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

From researching slim myself 10g carbs per 1iu of slin is extreme safe and often too much.

Also, why the choice of post workout rather than pre?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I tried insulin and went up to 21 IU/training day with zero results. No hypos either because I was incredibly careful with the stuff.

But like I said - no tangible results. Apart from putting on some fat despite the DNP and T3..


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

Mark2021 said:


> From researching slim myself 10g carbs per 1iu of slin is extreme safe and often too much.
> 
> Also, why the choice of post workout rather than pre?


i thought pre might be dangerous as i could get in trouble burning up carbs in gym with heavy squat workout


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## Big Kris (Aug 25, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> I tried insulin and went up to 21 IU/training day with zero results. No hypos either because I was incredibly careful with the stuff.
> 
> But like I said - no tangible results. Apart from putting on some fat despite the DNP and T3..


it was either duff gear or you was doing something wrong???


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Big Kris said:


> it was either duff gear or you was doing something wrong???


To be honest I think that I was doing everything right..

Let me explain further to illustrate protocol.

I injected subcutaneously 3 times per day, training days only. I started off at 5 IU, 3 times per day and worked up to 7 IU, 3 times per day, at my (very light I know) bodyweight of around 72kg.

Post-injection nutrition was (at 7IU dose) 49g dextrose + 21g of complex carbs (from wholemeal bread) + 30g protein. One-hour post-injection was 35g of complex carbs + 30g protein.

All of this was in addition to all my normal meals, thus overall calories and protein intake was massive.

On top of the Novorapid, I also used 100mcg T3 + 250mg of DNP on the slin days.

As far as I can see my protocol was theoretically spot on, but practically I gained no size (apart from fat) or strength.

Regarding my gear - I bought it direct from pharmacy and it hadn't suffered any heat degradation at all.


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## MiXiN (Mar 25, 2013)

I used Novorapid on my last cycle.

I started at 3iu Postworkout, and upped to 6iu after a few weeks and found that circa 6-8G of carb's was the sweetspot per unit of Insulin, 10G is certainly more than adequate.

Have some dextrose chews handy to be on the safe side.


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

MiXiN said:


> I used Novorapid on my last cycle.
> 
> I started at 3iu Postworkout, and upped to 6iu after a few weeks and found that circa 6-8G of carb's was the sweetspot per unit of Insulin, 10G is certainly more than adequate.
> 
> Have some dextrose chews handy to be on the safe side.


what carbs did you use dextrose ?


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Bloody hell, enough questions?

Use the search function, slin on it own it's crap, post work out slin is crap, 2iu is crap


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

^ This

gh + slin + tren, 15iu pre work out = results


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Eat ur breakfast 80g whey protein, 150g oats, 400ml milk, 10g glutamine wAit 20 mins then jab nolvarapid in to ur muscle 4iu

Repeat this 3-4 times a day 2-4iu each time 3-4 hours apart

Carbs should be over 70g in each meal, use glutamine as an insurance policy against going hypo with each meal 5-10gs of it

Do this for 4 weeks

Use metformin tabs everyday for that 4 weeks, 1500mg of them each day

Use at least 500mg test per week

Use hgh if you can afford it, 8iu mon/wed/fri

Google "mike Arnold insulin protocol" an try that, it's a slin pre work protocol


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

jayDP said:


> Eat ur breakfast 80g whey protein, 150g oats, 400ml milk, 10g glutamine wAit 20 mins then jab nolvarapid in to ur muscle 4iu
> 
> Repeat this 3-4 times a day 2-4iu each time 3-4 hours apart
> 
> ...


hi thanks for help i will follow your plan

i want to try insulin on its own so if i react to it i will know its the insulin ,then when i get this course over with i will decide whether to run it with test and hgh


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Just be care full, 2iu is the first click/line on the slin needle

Make sure you have a sugary drink with you just in case you start sweating and feeling dizy, start with 2 iu an remeber to eat carbs an wait 20 mins b4 you inject muscle


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

jayDP said:


> Just be care full, 2iu is the first click/line on the slin needle
> 
> Make sure you have a sugary drink with you just in case you start sweating and feeling dizy, start with 2 iu an remeber to eat carbs an wait 20 mins b4 you inject muscle


thanks jay


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## Prof (Aug 27, 2013)

Did you mention if you were going to monitor your blood glucose while using slin??


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

jayDP said:


> Eat ur breakfast 80g whey protein, 150g oats, 400ml milk, 10g glutamine wAit 20 mins then jab nolvarapid in to ur muscle 4iu
> 
> Repeat this 3-4 times a day 2-4iu each time 3-4 hours apart
> 
> ...


So do you think that the protocol which I used was wrong? (Please refer to Post N°7)

I basically used the protocol which Ausbuilt used to recommend which was essentially from Big A at professional muscle.


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

There is no wrong protocol mate but that is a rubbish protocol if you ask me, slamming down 50g of dex which is basically sugar randomly 3 times aday is stupid. you don't need any sugar the way I detailed.

Ausbuilt said big A posted that protocol, I don't believe him, did he give you a link?

do you know ausbuiltS name on proM coz I go on there everyday and would love to know his user name?


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Also I've not used DNP or T3, don't need them

Did you not get any fullness from the insulin?

You sure you got fat and it wasn't just water?

Google "mike Arnold insulin protocol" it's very good, I've posted it on this site sum were


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

jayDP said:


> There is no wrong protocol mate but that is a rubbish protocol if you ask me, slamming down 50g of dex which is basically sugar randomly 3 times aday is stupid. you don't need any sugar the way I detailed.
> 
> Ausbuilt said big A posted that protocol, I don't believe him, did he give you a link?
> 
> do you know ausbuiltS name on proM coz I go on there everyday and would love to know his user name?


Hi mate. Got my wires slightly crossed there - my protocol was actually Paul Borresson (as recommended by Aus) not Big A.

I don't Aus's user name, don't even know if he uses that forum. Around here he has been on hiatus since xmas.

I must admit that I never noticed any additional "fullness" from insulin, but I'm a guy who never really gets really big muscle pumps anyway. And yes it was fat, not water.. This was despite DNP and T3. The DNP made me feel like I was melting with all the carbs I was eating.

I've seen the Mike Arnold slin protocol which you've posted. Quite honestly all of that pre-workout slin makes me feel very uneasy. I was sh1tting myself every time I used to inject, and that was on considerably less slin..


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

Prof said:


> Did you mention if you were going to monitor your blood glucose while using slin??


yeah plan to take few base readings so I get idea of my blood sugar levels take in morning before food I think this is correct method and then keep an eye on them when ive injected ,when is best time to check levels is it just after ive injected then eaten ?


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Hi mate. Got my wires slightly crossed there - my protocol was actually Paul Borresson (as recommended by Aus) not Big A.
> 
> I don't Aus's user name, don't even know if he uses that forum. Around here he has been on hiatus since xmas.
> 
> ...


Aus did mention big a a few times too but am sure he made up half the **** he said.

U say you got ****s with pre workout insulin, did you use dextrose by any chance?


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

jayDP said:


> Aus did mention big a a few times too but am sure he made up half the **** he said.
> 
> *U say you got ****s with pre workout insulin*, did you use dextrose by any chance?


lol - you misinterpreted what I wrote mate!

I didn't mean it literally that I was sh1tting myself every time I injected - all I meant is that I was rather scared of the slin in case I went hypo and died. That's all.


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Lol o right...

Because I tried that protocol with dex instead of vitargo and I got ****s haha, it just sits there in ur gut were as vitargo doesn't


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Are you a personal trainer @jayDP?


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Are you a personal trainer @jayDP?


Nar mate, just read quite abit on different forums an stuff, an more then anything I have tried loads of stuff out too, ill only give advise out on stuff I have tried and tested, too many people give advise out when they haven't tried it, haha it's my pet hate!

I know a few national level bodybuilders as well and they tell me stuff too, tbh they don't know much about the science of drugs but they all eat a ton if food and train hard, and are consistent, that's the most important thing.


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

jayDP said:


> Eat ur breakfast 80g whey protein, 150g oats, 400ml milk, 10g glutamine wAit 20 mins then jab nolvarapid in to ur muscle 4iu
> 
> Repeat this 3-4 times a day 2-4iu each time 3-4 hours apart
> 
> ...


would this cover me for peak at around 2 hours after injection ?


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

jerom said:


> would this cover me for peak at around 2 hours after injection ?


Yes, I also use complex carbs too

How often do you eat?

I drink protein shAke in between meals aswel to get extra protein in, you can absorb more when you use insulin


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@jayDP - you essentially appear to recommend two rather different protocols for slin. One is using 2-4 IU 3-4 times per day after meals, and the other is the Mike Arnold-protocol pre-workout 15IU shot.

So which do you think is better?

You also say that slin on it's own is crap and to use at least 500mg/week of testosterone. Have I understood correctly?


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> To be honest I think that I was doing everything right..
> 
> Let me explain further to illustrate protocol.
> 
> ...


I started Humalog a few days ago 2iu am and 8-10 postw i can deffo "feel it" within a min or so,more so

if i pin it in my delt as appose to my stomach.


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

I don't know which is better, I run both at the same time and do 1 month on 1 month off

Slin post meal, is better for gains (imo) but you can only run it for 4-6 weeks and you need to stop an recover

Mike Arnold protocol can be run for as long as want (mike said this), the main thing this protocol does a side from gains is the recovery, you can hit muscle groups twice a week for volume, it's take away the soreness.


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

jayDP said:


> Yes, I also use complex carbs too
> 
> How often do you eat?
> 
> I drink protein shAke in between meals aswel to get extra protein in, you can absorb more when you use insulin


i eat at following times in day

wake 7.45

8am meal

10am meal

12noon preworkout shake/oats

1pm train and shake

1.45 eat meal

3.30 shake oats

6pm eat meal

8pm eat small meal

10 pm tuna and nuts

bed

the only thing that ever changes is pre workout at 12noon depending on training


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

jerom said:


> i eat at following times in day
> 
> wake 7.45
> 
> ...


Looks good, what's a meal though? Do you weight your food?

Try 2iu slin (nolvarapid or humolog) in muscle 20mins after the meals

So...

8:20

10:20

12:20

2:05

3:50

6:20

That's it 12iu per day, for 4 weeks. Buy metformin tabs, they are super cheap and normally 500mg, you want 1500mg per day for the 4 weeks.

Try that for a month, have a month off and then try the mike Arnold protocol for a month, mikes can be expensive, maybe £150 a month for all the sups you need, the way above is from this board from a guy called weeman, it's easy an cheap and gives good gains

All this "insulin makes you fat" is down to your metabolism, I gained muscle And dropped body fat when I ran slin post meals.

Am on holiday now aswel so sorry for taking ages to get back to ya, also am no expert on slin, I've just been told by people who seem to know what there taking about and I have tried the different ways to run it and these are the best IMO.


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

total daily calories 4341

370g protein 427g carbs 130g fat should i change the ratios a bit or is it ok (forgot to add fat from nuts )

meals consist of

280 grams rice or 200-300g sweet potato ,2 tuna steaks or 8oz rump steak or chicken breast or canned tuna in water,sweetcorn ,salad or vegetables

small meals are minus carbs and add nuts instead

preworkout shake 50 grams whey and 100 grams oats

3.30 shake 50 whey and 100 grams oats or replace whey with tuna


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

will metformin make me puke ? if this happens should i push through ?



jayDP said:


> Looks good, what's a meal though? Do you weight your food?
> 
> Try 2iu slin (nolvarapid or humolog) in muscle 20mins after the meals
> 
> ...


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

jerom said:


> will metformin make me puke ? if this happens should i push through ?


Meals look good mate, I personally lower the fat and up the carbs when I use slin, apparently you will gain less fat this way, save the fats for the evening and pre bed meal when ur not taking the slin, also metformin didn't make me sick, not heard that b4

Just remember only shoot the slin after a meal that have at least 50+ carbs, not the snacks which are just protein and fats.


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## jerom (Feb 26, 2010)

thanks jay you have been great help


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

jayDP said:


> Eat ur breakfast 80g whey protein, 150g oats, 400ml milk, 10g glutamine wAit 20 mins then jab nolvarapid in to ur muscle 4iu
> 
> Repeat this 3-4 times a day 2-4iu each time 3-4 hours apart
> 
> ...


Have I read this right 5-10glutamine per meal to help against hypo??


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

stone14 said:


> Have I read this right 5-10glutamine per meal to help against hypo??


Yeah that right, did you not know this?

I found out a few months back on proM

Just done a quick google search, found this, read seconds paragraph

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/09/glutamine-better-glucose-source-than.html?m=1


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

jayDP said:


> Yeah that right, did you not know this?
> 
> I found out a few months back on proM
> 
> ...


No I didn't no that, that's cool I will defo be using it when I use sloin again, picked out this quote

"30g of oral glutamine have similar effects on GLP-1 as 75g of glucose"


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## Pictor (Jan 10, 2011)

jayDP said:


> Looks good, what's a meal though? Do you weight your food?
> 
> Try 2iu slin (nolvarapid or humolog) in muscle 20mins after the meals
> 
> ...


I take it you run the Metformin on the 4 weeks your off slin to regain sensitivity?!

So 4 weeks Slin, 4 weeks Metformin, repeat?!


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## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Big Ste said:


> I take it you run the Metformin on the 4 weeks your off slin to regain sensitivity?!
> 
> So 4 weeks Slin, 4 weeks Metformin, repeat?!


Yeah that's what most people do, iv heard people runing the metformin along side the slin too, probley take it before the meal or with meals that they won't be pinning slin

Also metformin can give you the ****s, took a while for me to realise this.


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