# this guy gained 130lbs in 2 years, totally natural



## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

found this quite inspirational, check it out:

http://students.umw.edu/~bstri0lk/homepage/


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

yup pretty amazing!

He more then doubled his weight which is incredible!

Most people who are skinny tend to find it the hardest to bulk up! Well he showed the lazy skinkies it can be done in a short time!


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## GTForce (Oct 23, 2004)

Thanks for the link Nick.

Perhaps you should e-mail him and ask him to join us here at Musclechat.

He would have a lot to offer.

Well done website.

Cheers, GTForce


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

thanks a lot nick, yeah im checking it out now, send me the link to that forum if you wish thanks again!

-----Original Message-----

From: "Nick" <[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>

Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 08:26:35 +0100

Subject: re: bodybuilding invitation

Hi

I'm a member of a bodybuilding forum located in the UK at www.musclechat.co.uk <http://www.musclechat.co.uk/> , and I came across your website at http://students.umw.edu/~bstri0lk/homepage/ last night.

I wanted to say that I was extremely impressed, and posted your link up on the site ( 2500 + members). Several people were equally impressed, and I would like to ask you to join the site !

I am sending you a referall invitation and hope you can join.

Well done on your unbelievable gains !

Nick

Ps - watch out for the referral email coming shortly


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## GTForce (Oct 23, 2004)

As I said, I think that's a great site.

Proof that the basics, properly applied, will yield the gains one seeks.

I like how he covered mental aspects of training and the importance of sleep. I also liked how he pointed out that "supplements are just that - a "supplement" to real food".


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

yeah definitely

found it surprising he was on 12000 odd calories a day at some point? and didn't manage to put on much fat, unbelievable will be good to grill him if he starts postin. hehe

nick


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

Hey everyone, wow good to see you all! How are you doing, thanks for your comments on my site, yes it discuses the changes I went through and my mindset, its kinda basic, but should help, I guess I should ask if anyone has any questions? Thanks for your comments allready

~Strider


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

totally natural???? iv been training pretty hard and lifting for nearly 3 years and i havent out even quater of that weight on. good effort if it was natural - but seems a bit too good to be true.


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

Hey there, Yes I am natural suppliments I took were whye protein, flaxseed oil, creatine, glutamine, and multivitamins, I can understand bro, I was a hardgainer, I just researched and understood what I had to do, It wasnt in articles though what I had to do, had to try out new things, I mean never heard of a article reccomending eating 12,000 -13, 000 calories a day I just did what I found gave me best gains while I kept off body fat.


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

how did u manage to bump up the calories without eating too many carbs/fat and put on fat?


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2005)

for god sake guys wake up and think about this, the guy says he's natural and has gained 130lbs of lean body mass in 2 years bullshit i dont know what your selling mate but anyone with any knowledge aint gunna be buying it.

am i the only one willing to shout bullshit when he smells it.

this is a great forum for good honest information and this sort of rubbish will just drag us down.


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## GTForce (Oct 23, 2004)

It could happen.

1) He made this transformation between 18-20, the most anabolic years of a man's life.

2) He did not indicate if he also grew in height, which in itself could account for 40 pounds.

3) His diet was in the neighbourhood of 12,000 cals/day.

4) He seems to be a very dedicated guy and lifted heavy and slept alot.

5) He looks to have a large bone structure

6) He did gain a fair amount of fat, not that he's "fat", but we all know that "bulking" means putting on mass that is a combination of fat and muscle. However, as a trainer, I measure bodyfat all the time and there is no way that he is 9-10%. I would say closer to 15-16%. If he's 9% then I am presently about 3% :lol:

7) He could be genetic freak.

I have seen athletes (namely ice hockey players) go from 5'10" and 150 pounds at 16 years old to 6'2" and 225 pounds at 18 years old just from natural growth, plenty of calories and a well-designed off season weight program. Now, of course, that is a gain of 75 pounds, not 130. But, keep in mind that these athletes did not lose any speed or agility, whereas Strider's sole focus was bodybuilding. He was determined to pack on as much mass as possible.

I am giving the guy the benefit of a doubt to be sure, but stranger things have happened.

Of course, he could have been supplementing his quest with 100mg/day of d-bol. :lol:

I guess I would ask : What would be his motivation to lie? Why put together a website? As far as I can tell he's not selling anything.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2005)

i doubt he grew much over those years your pretty much finished groing by 18.

your body has a limit on how much protein you can absorb naturally and you cant absorb enough to gain that sort of muscle that quick, 12000 calories would gain alot more fat than he shows in his pics in the midway pic he looks pretty low fat to me.

he said he's a hard gainer yet he gained 130lbs of muscle in 2 years dam he grew a whole other person. he would have to be about the most geneticly gifted guy ever to do this but that would mean he'd be naturally muscular but he aint.

even arnold one of the most genetically gifted guys ever didnt gain that much in his first years and that was on roids.

i'm not buying what your selling is a phrase it means i dont belive you.

you could gain that muchg that quick ye but a hell of a lot of it would bbe fat, i cant believe you believe this guy.

and you cant possibly be nieve enough to think everyone on the net tells the truth, you think no one ever lies to feal special or for the attention ?


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2005)

a quote from his site.......

I remember I upped my calories up to 12,000 calories for a few months, during this period I made most of my gains, where I remember I would gain 10-12 lbs a month! Now when I say clean foods I just mean I stayed away from high saturated fatty foods, and empty carbs, as well as fast foods, sugars, candy, desserts, etc. Doing this I kept off a good amount of fat while I gained mass. I was actually happy that I could keep my body fat constant as well around 9-10%

so he ate 12,000 calories a day gaind 12lbs a month in weight and stayed at 10% fat with no roids thats impossible, you cant gain 12lbs of muscle a month


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

Wow soo much discussion since I have been gone. First off nick, I believe I kept off large amounts of fat because I had a high metab in the first place, I was a hardgainer, an ectomorph, but things change. I think a key was that I ate clean, I knew it was a risk to eat that much thats why I tried to keep it very clean.

Garrilla, I am glad you think I am bullshiting. I mean everyone does think I am on juice or that I have tried it , its a compliment I think... but nah I actually have nothing against it, I mean I am young and don't think I need it now, Especially gaining at a fast rate as such. I posted the site to inform others how I made my transformation, and to help others build up and focus and grow mentally as well!

Of course all of the weight I gained wasn't muscle, dont even think that is possible, but I logged my gains on a computer program called program tracker... so I could moniter my lean mass, and fat gains, so I was aware of what was going on, saying I kept bf at 9-10% is relative to my bodymass... I thank the criticism! Otherwise we wouldnt know these things and I could be some 12 year old wanting attention, let me know if you have any more questions? critcism? suggestions? etc all are welcome!

~Strider


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2005)

lmfao, no compliment ment mate so please dont take it that way.

9-10% bodyfat isnt relative to bodymass in any way 9-10% gives you visible abbs no matter what your bodyweight.

you contradict yourself you say you gained 12lbs a month on 12,000 calories a day and that "Of course all of the weight I gained wasn't muscle" but you go on to say " I kept bf at 9-10%" so you didnt gain any fat. at least try to make sense when you post. round here i'm the one who always calls guys out on bullshit but i'm telling you the majority of guys on this site are thinking it.

as for helping us "grow mentally" save that crap for oprah


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2005)

strider



> I was a hardgainer, an ectomorph, but things change


so now your claiming you changed your body type which is genetic, your just full of ground breaking scientific discoveries aint ye.


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

haha good to hear your opinion bro rock on. Well I know you dont mean it as one, you seem to not like me which is cool, but It's a compliment referring to steriods, because of fast gains.

as a percent I ment percents are relative in general, yes thats a general rule indeed, but I am going by bf caliper testing, my abs come but fade a bit some, but not the point...

yes much weight can be water as well, not only fat, you can still gain and keep a bf% and gain some fat it happens all the time. Glad your calling me out bud, try not to get mad though.

Haha well you may think mental strength is silly, but you would be stunned by how many things can be mental, the difference between getting an 800 lbs lift for some reps or not, inspiration and focus is half of how I gained the mass. Learn how to master the brain and you can do many things you wouldnt have thought you could do earlier. God bless

*btw meant the fact that I was a hardgainer changed, ectomorphs are associated with hardgainers

~Strider


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## razg (Nov 23, 2004)

Strider, i'd be interested to hear your nutritional intake more precisely, other than just mentioning clean foods.

How often were you eating? What foods? 12,000kcals is a lot to get in!


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## GTForce (Oct 23, 2004)

Garry,

Ease up mate. I am really playing devil's advocate here. I think it is a step in the right direction to encourage people that they can gain a tremendous amount of size through heavy, basic training, plenty of rest, and as you say, eating everything that's not nailed down.

I mean there was another thread on here where someone suggested that Colin Farrel and Orlando Bloom must have taken gear. Now that is utterly ridiculous, and rather depressing really, when young lifters assume the only way that anyone can gain size is through gear. I mean, Orlando fu**ing Bloom has 14 inch arms for f**k's sake!!! I'm not naive Garry, I have been around the game as long as you (yah... we've both getting a little long in the tooth  ) and I have never seen anything like this to be sure. However, I guess I never considered that people bullshit just to feel important.

Always respect your opinion mate, I guess I'm wearing rose-colored glasses so to speak.

I'm not buying, or calling bullshit...just sparking some discussion.

Cheers, GTForce


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

Haha sure why not:

It wasnt the most organized, every 2 hours, and many times in between and during the middle of the night, I would eat protein , protein with each meal, getting in around 400 ish grams a day... IN the morning I would get egg whites and grits, along with a shake, shakes are a great way to knock down protein usually took aroudn 3 a day... in many of the meals I would eat chicken breast, lean beef, lots of milk , milk with just about each meal also, would be in the cafeteria, and grab 5-8 glasses with lunch and dinner!

high calorie shakes I think helped a lot 350 calorie shakes I think were a great food suppliment took 1-3 a day. I would eat as much as I could but keep it clean so to gain as much lean mass as possible. When night came I would eat a cassien protein load up with cottage cheese and milk, and in the middle of the night I would wake up to eat anothe3r meal or two of whey and casien, fun stuff!

~Strider


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2005)

strider i like they way you avoid any direct answers to questions and just keep repeating the same rubbish. you say sleep is so important but if you wake up twice a night to eat that would disrupt it surely.

please bag some of this up i'll use it to fertilise my lawn lmao.

gt, yes its good for guys to know that you can gain without roids but this kind of rubbish doesnt do anyone any good, a newbie is gunna be pretty disheartened compareing his gains to this fiction. you said yourself that you've been around a fair few years and never known anyone make these gains, do you really think this guy who wont even answer questions directly and eats 12,000 calories a day and gains no fat is the holy grail of bodybuilding cause i dont


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

haha it may be rubbish I may be an idiot, just staing what has worked for me and how I gained a large amount of weight in 2 years, yes that is disrupting sleep but only for about 15 mins, doesnt really make a huge difference, I have gotten flack for this before but it works for me.

Haha apparently you dont liek me which is cool, whatever works for you I am smiling here, so it doesnt concern me I'm here to help folks, if you wanna say im a fake what can I do ya know? Call me silly but I belieev anythign can be done just because someone has never done somethign before doesnt mean it can't be done, sorta think it means ya just gotta go for it bro, you can keep on arguing but im gonna go grab a shake and keep growing, no disrespect, god bless


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## GTForce (Oct 23, 2004)

Garry, point taken mate.

Off to the gym, then the movies with my wife. Interested to see what this thread looks like when I get home later this evening.

GTF


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2005)

to be argueing youd have had to answer the points i raised but you didnt answer any of them just danced round them.

why grab a shake why dont you just use that "inspiration and focus" that gained you half your mass and just keep thinking your self big.

i wont post on this thread again, theres no point you dont answer any of the points raised against you, when asked how you got 12,000 clean calories you said shakes helped you had 1-3 350cal shakes a day now that dont make much of a dent in 12,000 does it. you may be smileing mate but alot of us are laughing and yes its at you.


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

wow

didn't think this post would spark up so severely...

Nick


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## TommyT (Aug 2, 2005)

Even if the guy took roids which granted would be the simplest explanation for his gains its still a fu**ing impressive transformation and not something to be laughed at. How many of us can say we have gained 130 pounds gear assisted over our entire bb careers. I doubt many of us only those who truly deserve our admiration.

Gear or not congratulations to you mate you deserve utmost respect.

And again inspired by you trying new things and taking the effort to put a site together.

Personally I actually find the tendancy to believe you. This transformation is awesome and if you had posted this and stated you used gear people would have siad wow mate very intelligent gear use obviously supplementing with a proper diet and training to achieve this.

So congrats

TT


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

Thank you very much tommy, yes garrila I didnt list everythign I ate because it would proubably take half an hour, and even if I did list everything you would proubably add it up and find something wrong with that, or continue discrediting me. Hope the site has helped others!


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## Poom (Aug 4, 2005)

Chemical 'aholics getting jealous i think thats all,

I believe the guy , just cause you cant do it with steroids etc doesnt mean its impossible, scientifically looking at his calorie intake in a special case i think it is certainly possible.


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

as gtforce suggested, i think a combination of being extremely anabolic naturally at 18 - 20 (with test levels as if he was on roids), with a combination of perfect rest/recovery, diet and training and lucky genetics... possible, but perhaps slightly unbelievable on the fat maintenance part.

but as tommyt said, needs credit anyway, as theres proof in the pictures.

well done strider

Nick


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2005)

Okay, this is the first time I have seen the pics (couldn't view them on his site) and I say why not! :lol: I mean, it's not like Richard Sandrak couldn't do it naturaly! (not) LMAO

In fact, I gained a pound just concentrating while I read the thread! lol


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2005)

garrilla said:


> strider
> 
> 
> > I was a hardgainer, an ectomorph, but things change
> ...


lol lol i agree :lol:


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## samisung (Sep 7, 2005)

Sorry strider by looking at the pic of you where your the biggest just look at that left nipple its hevy with gyno mate.

samisung


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

lol pretty harsh thing to say buddy, i can't say i agree !


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

ectomorph into genetic freak--hmmmmmmmmmmm-sounds like you`ve discovered the body builders magic"secret elixir"-if it was me i`d want to share my findings with everyone.if i stumble across something helpfull i tell everyone whether they want to hear it or not :lol: please do tell!


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## Stu21Ldn (Mar 17, 2005)

if you ate 400 grams of protien thats 1600 cals so the other 10400cals came from carbs and fats

i dont think so

im not claiming you used steroids or anything like that but 12,000 calories a day, that just doesnt add up.

your body fat is about 18-20% in those pics not anywhere near 9% lol


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2005)

12000 calories a day in clean food, would be very hard to do.

i struggle some days on my 5000 calories .

i dont agree he has gyno though. it looks like just a bit of fat around the nipple area.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

strider has definately done very well in gaining mass whether he has or hasnt used gear. personally, i cant see how he would of been able to pack on that much size in such a short space of time without it. I mean how the f**k do you eat 12000 calories a day! without putting on a huge amount of fat. no way is it 9% bf !!!

Also, in response to GT forces comment saying my thread about actors such as ed norton etc using gear to bulk up for specific roles - I dont think its ridiculous at all. Maybe orlando bloom was a bad example to use - but my point was that they pack on size in such short periods of time whilst preparing for the roles and manage to stay fu**ing ripped. Look at christian Bale 4 f**k sake! skinned down to like 10stone or something ridiculous for the machinist and then went up to 16 17 stone for batman begins.


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## c130 (Feb 1, 2004)

i cant belive he was 16/17 stone

when he had his top off he just looked a bit bigger than a normal bloke


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

thats what i read. he a big bloke. take a look at him in American pycho. hes got a great physique.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2005)

hmm, if he is telling lies he is a sad little man

and yes, he is telling lies!


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2005)

hmm, if he is telling lies he is a sad little man

and yes, he is telling lies!


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## fred (Sep 22, 2005)

I also gained considerable weight after my first course of Deca Durabolin about 7 years ago. This was the first time I had ever taken any AS.

I went from 73Kg's to 97Kg's in just over 8 months. Everybody could see I was changing, and the complements were a huge boost for me. I must admit I did have to make a huge change in my diet which included adding creatine and protein shakes to my daily intake.

However to make the gains strider claims without taking steriods is just unbelievable. It may just be a good supplement advertising campaign! however if he's legit, WOW what an achievement. He just needs to cut-up now.


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## fred (Sep 22, 2005)

I also gained considerable weight after my first course of Deca Durabolin about 7 years ago. This was the first time I had ever taken any AS.

I went from 73Kg's to 97Kg's in just over 8 months. Everybody could see I was changing, and the complements were a huge boost for me. I must admit I did have to make a huge change in my diet which included adding creatine and protein shakes to my daily intake.

However to make the gains strider claims without taking steriods is just unbelievable. It may just be a good supplement advertising campaign! however if he's legit, WOW what an achievement. He just needs to cut-up now.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2005)

heres some feedback...you do look great and those are impressive gains...now please be honest with the members on this board who are reading this! There is NO WAY possible you gaind that much LEAN muscle in the time frame you mentioned...no one here will criticize you for using ANY "supplement" or gear...but you will get flamed hard for lying!...there is just no need for it...im also callin bulshit on this one...


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2005)

heres some feedback...you do look great and those are impressive gains...now please be honest with the members on this board who are reading this! There is NO WAY possible you gaind that much LEAN muscle in the time frame you mentioned...no one here will criticize you for using ANY "supplement" or gear...but you will get flamed hard for lying!...there is just no need for it...im also callin bulshit on this one...


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## nick500 (Dec 12, 2005)

tbh this guy got flamed from the first post on this site... and doubt he reads it ever any more.

Nick


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2005)

in my opinion that guy juiced up big style


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## IrishThunder (Sep 16, 2005)

well done on the gains but i find it very difficult to believe he did it all on his own.


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## FierceFrets (Sep 29, 2005)

I gotta agree, it just dont add up. He still looks wicked though :twisted:

Fierce.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2005)

Actually i think the guys talking s**t, 1 hes using an academic website, so hes not going to post on his colleges website that hes roiding as he would get kicked out.

He probably compiled the site for a project for college.

Also the fact he has some poses like a BB suggests hes a roider 

That all said i think massive gains are possible Naturally.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2006)

well only just seen this thread!!!hard to beleve he ant used gear???and as to the diet of his,its just as mine is,im eatin every 2 hours and less but have only just started usein shakes,ive gained a stone in 2 weeks but hell theres water and fat with that so id say he talkin crap too,would of been good if he'd of come clean and explaned how he really did it


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2006)

he sounds like hes got everything to do with mass gains sorted

i have previously gained what works out at 68lbs of muscle in 2 years, and i promise, id bet my life, i DID do that (i have the stretch marks to prove it) - i ate a lot of chicken and tuna, and probably 2-3 times what the average person does but not a good diet tbh, training wasnt brilliant either, i only had a set weight etc

i was certainly not focused most the time either - not saying i didnt train like a mad man an that, but i would sometimes miss workouts etc an it wasnt the number 1 thing

i know i could have gained more, so maybe hes not lying


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## stone14 (Mar 24, 2005)

sorry lads but i dont believe that he gained 130ib in 2 years the way he's said hes training any1 training that much naturally imo is garanteed to overtrained, noway has he gained over 9 STONE in 2 years thats about 1 stone every 10 weeks nonstop for 2 years. roids roids and more roids!!!


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## chalk (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm new to this forum and I'm going to start off by speaking my mind without offendind as many people as possible.

I had fantastic gains in my second year of bodybuilding, Having read up on diet, routine supplements etc I put it into practice. Aged 20 years old I went from 13 stone to 16 stone in one year. I wouldn't change a thing about my routine if I had my time again even though I put on some fat, which I expected and thought was unavoidable!!

I also was/is an ectomorph during my first bulking phase I doubt that I would have gained so much weight, training SIX days a week.

I thought that bulking up/ gaining body weight (without steriods) automatically came with adding SOME extra fat! At leat a few & in BF!!Or have I been reading the wrong stuff for the last ten years?!

I'm not here to try and prove that people are lying but

.i) I don't see 9-10% BF in those pics.

ii) By definition how can a HARDGAINER train 6 times a week and gain that much lean mass.

ii)Correct me if I'm wrong but ...even people on steroids during thier mass/bulking phase would expect some BF increase.

It just doesn't feel right to me. Sorry Strider but I'm going with my initial feelings, I think you've had some help.


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## chalk (Jan 21, 2006)

Just a quick addition to point ii) Correct me if I'm wrong but ...even people on steroids during thier mass/bulking phase would expect some BF increase. SO how can someone steroid free possibly put on that much solid mass?


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2006)

when you put on loads of muscle like that, you will start burning off fat eventually - when i bulk up, i gain some fat at first, but then eventually start to lose it just through the sheer mass ive put on (burning all the calories to keep it there/grow more) - if he has gained that weight an kept the fat off, that will be why


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## Strider (Aug 19, 2005)

Hey guys how has it been? Out of college now and decided to come back and visit, not sure its been a year since anyone has posted on this thread though, but I cut back in weight a bit and currently weigh about 210 lbs


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## Freeezer (Sep 26, 2006)

Could you message me a copy of your workout regime when you first started when you were that skinny plz.....


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

Allo mate - just spotted this post... Seems as those it caused quite a stir initially...

Question: When you entered college at 125lbs (just shy of 9stones in UK money) were you a 'late bloomer' by any chance...?


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## shamrock (May 9, 2007)

I started training at 10 and half stone when i was 19, at 6ft 2 thats really skinny.

naturally i got to 15 and half stone within 12 months without getting fat.

then i took it t 18 stone with steroids. could you build that body without gear, id doubt it very much.

but honestly who cares. if he is lying then thats his problem, if he is telling the truth then thats great. its the net so who cares really.

and the whole waking up to eat thing does not stop u growin at all.

jay cutler gets up every 2 hours to eat and so do many other bodybuilders.


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

you can tell from the loat in his face hes on gear in the last pics he posted


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## stumpy1466867921 (Sep 6, 2004)

I can't believe anyone's bothered to awaken or respond to this old thread.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

The guy came back... Scroll up...


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

its still a decent debate


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## stumpy1466867921 (Sep 6, 2004)

sitries said:


> its still a decent debate


That's a matter of opinion! lol


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## lil-nicky (May 6, 2007)

The link to the site that was originally posted is no longer working.


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## CMinOZ (Apr 13, 2007)

Sorry to refresh this one but I have been LMAO here in OZ. I really miss just how polite us British are, even when flaming somone. This big units story was posted on T-Nation and he got hammered - funnily enough his posts are pretty much the same.

BTW - Definitely needs a new set of calipers - I think he may have been using a wood working vice.


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## harmy (Aug 12, 2007)

can anyone get his link up for me. the orginal does not work!


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2008)

kylewoods said:


> hmm, if he is telling lies he is a sad little man
> 
> and yes, he is telling lies!


lmao, funny as f**k.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2008)

don't mean to sound like a **** but the lad looks pretty s**t IMO.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2008)

sorry for posting, didn't realise how old the thread was :der:


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## splinter1466867924 (Aug 5, 2005)

For those who cant find the original website.

Here's a cache of the original

http://web.archive.org/web/20060314154251/http://students.umw.edu/~bstri0lk/homepage/


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## EXTREME (Aug 5, 2005)

I'm sceptical about this, I work with the kid who was 2nd in the Juniors at the Natural Olympia and he works with us at Extreme, his eating is religious, he eats plenty, he uses plenty quality supplements (all Extreme!) and he rests well.

He trains in a boodybuilding gym, he's strong for a 20yr old natural who competes at 12 stones, he bust his balls between the BNBF Scotland and the Olympia and he only gained 4lbs. In his first 2 years of training he gained 35lbs, he's naturally lean but I would say is as much a mesomorph as he has ectomorph properties.

I personally doubt anyone including Ronnie Coleman gained 9 stones of muscle in his first 2 years, lets be honest about it, at that age your knowledge sucks, you make mistakes and between 18 and 20 you tend to party a lot so I'm doubting his gains.

His bodyfat calipers must have arrived without instructions because he looks at least 15% possibly nearer 20% to me.


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## manaja (Feb 10, 2008)

I totally agree with you Extreme, im 42 now and i trained naturally for 9 years, 39 i did my first cycle, ive seen some big natural guys in my time who have great genetics,none of them could of made the gains he has claimed to make, hes on roids, my guess orals and he looks like a ****...end of.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

what makes you say orals?


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

scottswald said:


> what makes you say orals?


Face bloat would be one reason


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## Pikey1466867920 (Apr 24, 2004)

130lb in two years clean that bloke must think we crawled out from under a cabbage leaf this morning.

I wonder if his claims have anything to do with wanting to be a trainer&#8230;

He doesn't look natural, he's totally bloated and he doesn't look like he could afford to loose 130lbs.

Another thing if he's 10% body fat I'm minus 10%.

Dude Stop insulting our intelligence what a load of B"£$%^cks!

I'm more impressed with that rat Splinter has on his Avvie - now that's a big dude looks like it's come from the pages of a James Herbert novel


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## manaja (Feb 10, 2008)

I reckon orals, one , his face and body bloat, secondly,would be out of his system quicker if he ever had to test. Look at him, he,s totally bloated , got no shape whatsoever, no expierence behind him at all. Its all water, he looks like a pratt.


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

First anadrol is a wonderfulll drug but unfortunatly it gives you the pisbury doeboy look..

Also liberal use of injectable testostrone as a base. added to that anything else you can find and yea you can get a dramatic weight gain.

BF% well, unless his calapers are broken theres been a masive increase look at the neck for instance and the face.

We can specualte all day long about this PT however, a few points- check out the guys traps and delts releative to the rest of his bod. there far in advanced of everything else there are lots of receptor cells in these muscles therfore there going to grow the fastest and will become the bigest parts in long term premeture abuse of PEDs.

you just dont get that sort of growth in the 2 muscle groups without the liberal use of PEDs. It just does not happen.

Take for instance the natural fella Layne Norton. check out his look. now do you think this fella is a natural? come on. I know you want to beleve its possible but truth hurts - its not anyone clameing that sort of a weight gain exibiting that sort of a bod is feeding your pure BS.

To many who train with PEDs, first in america its an illegal activity so theres good reasion not to admit to a fellony offence. However the problem comes when your gym buddies pick up on your progress and then it snowballs you cant admit to being on PEDs because your get in trouble and will look a **** to all the people you lied to in the past - plus the kudos to doing the seemingly impossible natural.

PTs earn there money by there rep and for this guy he has decided to select this as his carrer his whole livelyhood is based on a lie. He plane as day cant admit the truth.

Look at the mags from the 30-40s they were true naturals. We can talk all day about the suplements that have been discovered that are BS, NO suplement that you can buy over the counter works simple as its just magic beans that are sold to nieve 14-18 year olds (the guys who are the key demographic for suplement sales). that buy these.

If you buy a muscle mag from the 30-40s you notice that theres a big diffrence in how stuff was marketed back then. Just look at how positive the articles are, stuff was marketed on a sucess premise - if you trained hard and ate your veg/meat then you would grow, it was inevitable. (just buy our barbell and our training course). You see back then it was a secret. The mags made there money selling barbell sets, weight boots, male photo books (see how far back the gay dollar was in bodybuilding). and books about sexual health. and most importantly weight training courses.

Now guys like Hofman decided that a barbell lasts what 30 years and is almost unbreakable. so a mark spends $70 on a barbell set. a series of weight training courses about $12. and a subscription to Strenght and Health ($3 a year).

Now thats ok if you have a unlimited number of new trainers that want to buy your kit but what guys like Hofman realised was that after the inital purchace of kit what could you sell your customer? I meen sure you could bring out another Bosco book or another Arm training book but thats still small money and you have to be carefull not to flood the market otherwise people lose faith in your integrity.

What happened around the mid 50s was the marketing guys realised that if they could sell the readers somthing EVERY MONTH that would in the medum term produce far greater return for the York company. Think about it a tin of Hofmans protien sup would cost you what 80c - 1.20 a month.

Does'nt sound like much does it but consider that your marketing this to everyone that reads and is intrested in building there bodys thats a masive market you just opened up. imagine if just 20% of the readership of Strenght and Health bought this crap... it would make the company more money then there barbell sales..

And so there was a subtile change in the way the magazines were written no longer was it a sucess based pitched it was one where if you wanted to suceed you not only needed to first by Hofmans weight training books and barbell set you also had to buy the various suplements to suceed otherwise you were going nowhere.

You see the diffrence? the mags from the 50-60s-70s are not so diffrent from the Flex and MD that you see today, there written to show that you that without the various suplements, and other crap you cant acheve a good change in your body This is totaly crap. You could even with bodyweight exersises completely change how you look just buy eating properly.

But the thing is because the image of what a well built man have been so distorted by media (its not just the women whos body image has been totaly distorted). We have completely unrealistic expectations of what these magic beans, bosu balls ect will do for us. So we fail - wonder whats wrong and because we have been taught through negative marketing in these magazines that failure is not a fault with the product but with the person. its automaticly our fault and that we need the better newer product to suceed so you spend another $30 a month on somthing that will promise you the earth and give you nothing.

The current issue we have with the widespread use of PEDs is also linked to the way that the muscle magazines market themselves because of the dependancy of things outside yourself to suceed "you must take this suplement otherwise your not going to succed..." how easy is it once we have adopted this mindset to think "these PEDs are realy what makes guys big and strong, if I take them I too will be a champion.."

Also to a extent the same is true with PEDs, we all know guys that started with the belief that they would only do 1 cycle... of dbol or tbol. and then stop...

however what almost always happens is that they rarely get the results they want from there first cycle for various reasions and they hear about these other substances that are sure to make it work next time...

:focus:

I dont know this guy personaly but Im offended to have my intelect insulted by such BS.

I meen yea we all lie to a certain extent about PEDs but you dont need to be blatent about it.


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## manaja (Feb 10, 2008)

good post wogihao


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2008)

Tall said:


> Face bloat would be one reason


do injectables cause this less than?


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## manaja (Feb 10, 2008)

he looks like a water balloon, i dont think the injectables even the test gives that much obvious bloat.


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## newboy606 (May 25, 2005)

sus + deca + to many carbs and i look like a puffa fish


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## wogihao (Jun 15, 2007)

manaja said:


> he looks like a water balloon, i dont think the injectables even the test gives that much obvious bloat.


To be fair it can be if you take enough and your not carfull in your diet or the control of the sides..

Also were not considering other PEDs that could produce a dramatic weight gain like this when combined with say test or anadrol - insulin would produce that sort of bloat quite easly.

That said sometimes people are just very unlucky and get terible sides from very small amounts of test/PEDs so he could just be pre-disposed to suffer from the sides worse than the average joe.


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