# Strenght training WITHOUT Squat & Deads



## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

...is it possible?

Due to back injury I'll have to drop squats or deadlifts. Been doing Rippetoes SS on and off and everytime I reach around 40kg on squat and deads i start to get worse so I suppose the bottom line is I have to drop them unfortunately.

Long shot, I know, but my aim is to gain strenght atm (started training 6 months ago after 10 year break) so can you suggest any strenght workout without these two lifts? Impossible?

If there's no way around it, don't know, should I move to a BB 3 or 4 day split?

Any advice appreciated


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## whackedout (Sep 10, 2009)

What is your goal here mate? Without squats and deads you ain't competing in any strength events PL or Strongman. Detail what you want to achieve, you may be able to start training to strengthen your back and then move back towards squats and deads. What was / is the injury?


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

It would be very difficult, not impossible, but difficult

Bench and OHP press are still in there, bent rows aswell

If you really, really cant squat and deadlift (be honest) if your back is really that bad I would of thought the other lifts would prove difficult aswell

Why do you want strength? If its for a sport you could try stuff like KB/DB snatches and other such lifts


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> Bench and *OHP press are still in there, bent rows aswell*


Will put as much stress on back as squats and deads IMO.

Whats the crack with your back mate? whats the injury? what treatment have you had? etc etc.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

mikex101 said:


> Will put as much stress on back as squats and deads IMO.
> 
> Whats the crack with your back mate? whats the injury? what treatment have you had? etc etc.


In fairness, bent rows I dont do because they stress my lower back way more than deads and squats so I use DB bent rows where i can suport my self with one arm


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## deeppurple (Mar 13, 2010)

no offence if you strength train without dealifts or squats...........

........then youre an idiot


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## littlesimon (May 24, 2010)

I agree with mikex101, if your back is injured that badly you'll be hard pushed to do the others, even Bench could give you problems.

If it's serious enough to stop you squatting 40kg it must be a huge injury.


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## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

whackedout said:


> What is your goal here mate? Without squats and deads you ain't competing in any strength events PL or Strongman. Detail what you want to achieve, you may be able to start training to strengthen your back and then move back towards squats and deads. What was / is the injury?


Not looking to compete mate. About the injury...still don't know what's wrong, seen osteo, etc, so far nobody knows what's the problem. It affects my left glute mainly but now my lower back spine itself is sore. It's been about 5 months of trying different stuff...



MarkFranco said:


> It would be very difficult, not impossible, but difficult
> 
> Bench and OHP press are still in there, bent rows aswell
> 
> ...


 Just considering my options :confused1:


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2010)

KASHLDN said:


> Not looking to compete mate. About the injury...still don't know what's wrong, seen osteo, etc, so far nobody knows what's the problem. It affects my left glute mainly but now my lower back spine itself is sore. It's been about 5 months of trying different stuff...


What sort of pain are we talking about?

Left glute? im guessing a shooting pain? Has anybody mentioned Sciatica to you??


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## whackedout (Sep 10, 2009)

OK my advice here is start doing leg press and hack squats to build strength in your legs, do some good mornings or weighted hyper extensions to start strengthening your lower back and see how you feel, if your symptoms become worse see the doctor but this sounds like sciatica which is nerve related so I think that potentially you can work towards a good strength routine and will be able to find yourself doing squats and deads. Start easy and see how you feel.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

I dunno what it is or how bad it is but sometimes you just have to man up

I have suspected carpal tunnel my left arm and it batters when I bench press, feels like im holding onto an electric current

Sometimes, you just have to deal with it

Squats and dead used to leave my lower back in pain for days (due to weak muscles) but they soon caught up and used to the workload


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## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

mikex101 said:


> What sort of pain are we talking about?
> 
> Left glute? im guessing a shooting pain? Has anybody mentioned Sciatica to you??


Not Sciatica, it gets really stiff and yes, i've tried 3 osteo, sports masseur (which was the best tbh), different treatments, approaches, etc...don't really want to get into details mate, it's been a long journey...

The purpose of this thread is to consider the alternatives, my training options if I'm dropping squats and deads. The question is basically what would you do if you couldn't perform these lifts and wanted to get stronger.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Stiff? Tight? Cramp like?

If so imo, your just weak  itll soon stop once you become stronger


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> Sometimes, you just have to deal with it


Thats one approach, the other is doing something about it.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

I think he just need to strengthen his lower back, i dont think he has an injury going by what hes said

Glute ham raises, reverse hypers, hanging leg raises, good mornings, prone bridges, reverse crunches and SLDL (but be carefull with those two) and after a month or so it should be better

Form could be an issue aswell, but i know for a fact when i first started lifting squats and dead used to give me a stiff/tight lower back


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2010)

KASHLDN said:


> Not Sciatica, it gets really stiff and yes, i've tried 3 osteo, sports masseur (which was the best tbh), different treatments, approaches, etc...don't really want to get into details mate, it's been a long journey...
> 
> The purpose of this thread is to consider the alternatives, my training options if I'm dropping squats and deads. The question is basically what would you do if you couldn't perform these lifts and wanted to get stronger.


Fair enough.

Can you 'strength train' without squats and deads? Depends on your definition of strength training. My definition of strength training is PL and Oly lifts. So no, you cant.

Can you get stronger without squats and deads? Course you can. work around your injury as best you can. Hack's, Leg press, Polish culrs, Hypers (if you can)

Some mobility, LB strengthening and stretching work might be an idea though.

:thumb: :beer:


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## whackedout (Sep 10, 2009)

MarkFranco said:


> I think he just need to strengthen his lower back, i dont think he has an injury going by what hes said
> 
> Glute ham raises, reverse hypers, hanging leg raises, good mornings, prone bridges, reverse crunches and SLDL (but be carefull with those two) and after a month or so it should be better
> 
> Form could be an issue aswell, but i know for a fact when i first started lifting squats and dead used to give me a stiff/tight lower back


I am of the same opinion.


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

Presuming injury is v bad and no possibility of squats and deads, then just work round it and train legs and back in different manner, loads of diff exercises and if increasing load every session and not doing hundreds of reps that is strength training is it not??


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## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> I think he just need to strengthen his lower back, - agreed i dont think he has an injury going by what hes said - mate, i know how i feel and i'm not going to argue this. It's not a post workout tight/stifness feeling. believe me.
> 
> Glute ham raises, reverse hypers, hanging leg raises, good mornings, prone bridges, reverse crunches and SLDL (but be carefull with those two) and after a month or so it should be better
> 
> ...


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

I know how it feels, i had to lay on the floor some times between sets it was agony truth be told

As for the assitance work to strengthen lower back, do them at the end of your workout

go for a higher rep range 10-15 and anywhere between 3-5 sets depending on you recover, dont need loads of weight but most of them are body weight anyway


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Also any chance you could post your exact routine?

theres a few different ones, the original, stronglifts, witchta falls, practical programming, Onus Wunsler


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## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> I know how it feels, i had to lay on the floor some times between sets it was agony truth be told
> 
> As for the assitance work to strengthen lower back, do them at the end of your workout
> 
> go for a higher rep range 10-15 and anywhere between 3-5 sets depending on you recover, dont need loads of weight but most of them are body weight anyway


I'll give it a go then - got nothing to loose. Been doing planks, glute raises and crunches last couple of weeks, which have been helping a bit. just a bit confused as to when to do the exercises. I train 3x week, mon, wed, fri, woudl I add them all 3x week or split throughout the 3 days?!? sorry if it sounds obvious. cheers


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## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> Also any chance you could post your exact routine?
> 
> theres a few different ones, the original, stronglifts, witchta falls, practical programming, Onus Wunsler


Practical programme.

A

Squat

Bench

Dead

B

Squat

M Press

Pull up/chins


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Do you warm up at all? I find 5-10 minutes on a rowing machine really helps me

Theres lots of ways you could do it, its all down to you and which ever way you prefer to do it

I would probably do something like this (but pick whatever movement you prefer to do and whatever set/rep range you like the most)

Mon - hanging leg raises 5x15

Wed - Glute ham raise 5x10 (add weight if needed)

Fri - Prone bridges 3x45+ seconds

Could even alternate if you wanted, but I would stick with the same ones for around 8 weeks before moving on


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## Mark W H (Jan 25, 2010)

I'd suggest forgetting the training until the back issue is resolved. Training may be agravating the problem and ultimately you will always find the back hindering what you do. I had problems for quite some time and ended up stopping, getting fixed and then coming back to it. Have you tried "Bowens technique"? Its a bit wierd but give it a go. It was recomended to me and worked a treat. Wieghts for squats and deads are still quite light (just over 100kg) but are still increasing by 2.5kg each week and i could harldy do either before.


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## KASHLDN (Mar 7, 2010)

MarkFranco said:


> Do you warm up at all? I find 5-10 minutes on a rowing machine really helps me - yep, i do warm up (air squats, etc..) and only go under the bar with blood pumping through my body
> 
> Theres lots of ways you could do it, its all down to you and which ever way you prefer to do it
> 
> ...


cheers for that mate



Mark W H said:


> I'd suggest forgetting the training until the back issue is resolved. Training may be agravating the problem and ultimately you will always find the back hindering what you do. I had problems for quite some time and ended up stopping, getting fixed and then coming back to it. - I stopped so many times, from just doing low impact cardio for a month, 3 weeks off everything, etc...nothing really cuts it, just learned to live with it now. Have you tried "Bowens technique"? Its a bit wierd but give it a go. It was recomended to me and worked a treat. Wieghts for squats and deads are still quite light (just over 100kg) but are still increasing by 2.5kg each week and i could harldy do either before. - never heard of it before - will do some research


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Another thing I found, after doing SS my posture improved ALOT, i used to walk quite hunched over apparently, but I started walking with better posture (this for a while also caused my lower back to go stiff/tight similar to how it would when i was lifting.

Thats since gone away now and im squatting 205kg x 3... SS is truely a great routine


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

As discussed, working the lower back with exercises like front and side plancks (or prone and lateral bridges as they seem to be called nowadays) will help, as will glute ham raises once you have the intital strength. Front ab work is also important.

There are some good exercises that help upper body explosiveness, strength and power that aren't quite as much lower back as squat and deadlift variations... things like:

Power snatches

Powercleans

High pulls

Split snatches

Overhead squats are a phenomenal core building exercise, but can work the lower back hard.


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

Another thing just to think about, I'm not being a knob but ensure your form is bang on the money, maybe that's how you hurt yourself in the first place.


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## BLUTOS (Mar 5, 2005)

Maybe leave the weights alone and do pilates till your back n stuff is sorted.

I thing SS is great and I had to re learn how to squat, cos my form was sihte, so when up to it get a pal to film you when you do decide to lift again cos your, mine anyone form can get sloppy if not targetted.


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## phys sam (Jan 11, 2008)

OP has a whole thread on this on the injury section. I can't be assed to find it but maybe the OP could post a link?

It'll save going over old ground and get some new ideas going.


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## tombsc (May 29, 2008)

I have similar issues. Started with a disc bulge that never got better, caused poor posture which messed up my spine quite badly. Now can't squat, dead, BO row, run, etc.

I just train my upper body using lifts that don't put strain on my spine (or just minimal strain). Legs are just extensions and hamstring curls, some lunges are ok too.


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## Robbo90 (Mar 6, 2008)

This video will answer your question.


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

Robbo90 said:


> This video will answer your question.


 :thumb: reps


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