# one loading, one back off set, JPs training methods



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

im sure jordan didnt invent this training method but hes certainly popularized it on his website trainedbyJP

ive ran countless different programs and made my own using the knowledge ive gained from pre written programs, articles and ebooks but something i have not trained is jordans approach and it has sparked my interest

the upper lower training is nothing new obviously but what im interested in is his one loading set and one back off and the exact methodology of it

is it as simple as for instance the start of an upper day might be

bench press:
loading set 120kg x6-8, rest, back off set 100kg x10-15

Lat pulldown 
loading set 100kg x6-8, rest, back off set 80kg x10-15

youd continue to hit all muscle groups on this day in a similar fashion (shoulders, triceps, biceps ect)

does this look about right?

i find it odd as when i was subbed to JPs site and an article i read by him he mentions being inspired by dante trudels training but also following closely to mike israetels MRV style training which are polar opposites

DC liked 1 set to balls out failure with a bit of rest pause (an adaptation of dorian) with very lower overall weekly training volume and mike israetel talks of doing 20-30-40 sets per muscle groups which are complete opposites of one another

anyone had any experience with this style of trainins care to chime in


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> im sure jordan didnt invent this training method but hes certainly popularized it on his website trainedbyJP
> 
> ive ran countless different programs and made my own using the knowledge ive gained from pre written programs, articles and ebooks but something i have not trained is jordans approach and it has sparked my interest
> 
> ...


 His training style is inspired by DC and Mike mentzer both of which he references in his latest routine which bares way too much similarity to DC training to be charging £70 for imo.


----------



## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)




----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> His training style is inspired by DC and Mike mentzer both of which he references in his latest routine which bares way too much similarity to DC training to be charging £70 for imo.


 i acquired a copy of that ebook foc and i agree it is over priced

also its not really that similar to how he seems to train with the 1 loading and 1 back off but rather a mix of every technique he knows which i think is ugly and disorderly / not something id run

ive always found its best to maximize one method and when it stagnates move onto the next, not just doing everything every session (rest pause, super high rep, sets of 8,10,12,15, sets to failure, super sets, drop sets ect) it just exhausts too many tools at once


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> i acquired a copy of that ebook foc and i agree it is over priced
> 
> also its not really that similar to how he seems to train with the 1 loading and 1 back off but rather a mix of every technique he knows which i think is ugly and disorderly / not something id run
> 
> ive always found its best to maximize one method and when it stagnates move onto the next, not just doing everything every session (rest pause, super high rep, sets of 8,10,12,15, sets to failure, super sets, drop sets ect) it just exhausts too many tools at once


 It's almost like he threw in everything but the kitchen sink in a desperate attempt to make it appear new and worth the money.

In answer to the original question though re: backup sets, it is essentially a drop set so nothing new but definitely has its place and like anything will work if utilised properly.


----------



## Flexxxbert (Oct 22, 2018)

Upper/rest/Lower/rest/upper and so on

Musclegroup A

Set 1: 5-8

Set 2: 9-12

Musclegroup B

3x15-20

-------

BB flat benchpress A

High incline press A

Dips A

Chest supported rows B

Biceps B

--------

RDL A

Lying ham. curls A

Seated ham. curls A

Leg extension B

Abs B

--------

Sup. Weighted Chins A

Prone DB Row A

Wide Lat pulldowns A

Low Incline press B

Biceps B

--------

BB Back/Front Squat A

V-Squat machine A

Legpress A

Calfes B

Hyperextentions B

This is my routine, very low volume (only 9 hard sets per musclegroup/weekly. But ill work from there and up it when i need, did 12 sets before but pulled it back cause it was too draining.

i do small adjustments time to time but this is the base. Inspired by the video i linked and all other info put on this forums and videos

Off Topic: appreciate all your other topics/work!

Cheers!


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Flexxxbert said:


> Cheers!


 ive done a lot more reading since i made this thread

its an interesting concept for me as ive never really trained in this fashion

most of my years have been spent powerlifting with the assistance work being just that and the muscle growth geared toward improving my big 3

the last time i focused exclusively on hypertrophy i think i was benching about 100kg whereas now im around the 165kg mark so it will certainly be a breath of fresh training and somewhat of a novel stimulus.

i think the biggest off putting thing for me is the total weekly volume 
logic would suggest try it and see but it just fights majority of what ive learned up until now

in fact recent research is even suggesting ridiculously high levels of total weekly volume in the studies done by schoenfeld and promoted by israetel but i dont agree with those and think theyre excessive and this is the polar opposite in that its VERY little weekly volume

once i had written out an example template, for something likechest it only worked out as about 8 working sets per week
2 exercises, 2 sets on each (one loading, 20% reduction in weight and one back off to total failure) and then repeat 72hours later but with different exercises for the same muscle group

typically the middle ground and most of the research points toward 12-15 sets per week being the ideal middle ground


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

swole troll said:


> ive done a lot more reading since i made this thread
> 
> its an interesting concept for me as ive never really trained in this fashion
> 
> ...


 I'm doing less working sets than that for chest once a week and it is going well for me. Providing intensity is high enough you shouldn't have a problem.


----------



## Ille (Apr 28, 2019)

JP just put this on his IG page.

yes the science sais high ampunts of volume but the evidence? , well look at theese guys , JP , Dorian ,Dante , James hollingshead.

then theres many many of high volume who also looks amazing, i think u have to find YOUR approach and give it all.

the reasoning is to stress the body so it HAVE to adapt, what better way to do it than low volume and very high intensity around 10RM ?

Just my 2 cents


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> I'm doing less working sets than that for chest once a week and it is going well for me. Providing intensity is high enough you shouldn't have a problem.


 i think that is the important thing to focus on and remember when looking at these volume requirement studies and that is that most of the people in these studies are probably people that havnt been in the gym that long or take it that seriously

like you say for those that know their body, have already accrued a decent level of muscle and strength you can generate a lot more stimulation in the muscle with less total sets

i remember seeing a study a while back that said in ALL individuals around 80% of muscle stimulation is achieved in the very first set and if i remember rightly the drop off is something like 10-15% on the second and then virtually meaningless on the subsequent sets

dont quote me on that but pretty sure that at the very least it said about 80% stimulation occurring in the first set which doesnt leave much for any subsequent ones and this study didnt mention anything about going to failure, forced reps, partials, assisted ect which we can assume provides even more stimulation per set


----------



## S_C (May 16, 2018)

Basically. It's inspired by DC training which I also loved but it's a more volume with the added back off set. Generally you can drop that second set off or drop out rest pauses for straight sets when recovery capabilities are down.

I generally follow the one loading and one back off on most main exercises and rest pause a lot of the isolation stuff like side raises, pec dec etc.

Ive made a lot of progress using similar methods really it comes down to making your workouts more intense and dropping the unnecessary volume which is what makes you progress there is really nothing special to it.


----------



## Bensif (Aug 28, 2011)

Jordan uses Mike's concept of MRV in the sense that training to failure will reduce your MRV but you still need to be aware of it. Volume is a poor choice of word really; time under mechanical load by sets.

Jordan doesn't use RIR where as Mike advises uses RIR as a measure of intensity whilst overloading volume. Jordan overloading mechanical tension before volume, and only pushing volume if he believes he can recover.

Jordan used to coach me, now I train using Mike's approach.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

A main set to ball-busting failure and a high-rep dropset or two has always been a favourite method of mine ever since I got into Dorian Yates training methods back when I was still natty. Obviously most people know Dorian for his "forced reps" approach, but according to his books, prior to 1993 he actually advised against using these often, and his favourite technique was just a main set and a couple of dropsets. The idea behind his methods has always been, main set to all-out failure, then extend the set with a technique like dropsets, rest-pause, forced reps or cheat reps to get extra negatives, partials etc.

What I'd typically do is for example, 100kg for 6-8 reps to failure for one set (after warmups as necessary), put that weight down, grab 50kg and rep out to failure (normally 15-20 reps), rest-pause for 10 secs then go again for another 5-10 reps. Always been a favourite cause it works :thumbup1: Good thing is as well you can go HAM on the main set with maybe a bit less than strict form as a power exercise, then on the dropsets go for textbook for maximum stimulation. There are also studies showing that dropsets actually produce better results than standard "higher volume" methods like 3x10. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316737343_Effects_of_drop_set_resistance_training_on_acute_stress_indicators_and_long-term_muscle_hypertrophy_and_strength


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Already laid plans and routine out for when I'm done cutting to implement this style of training

Looking forward to it

Shame I'm probably still 4 months away from a calorie surplus


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

swole troll said:


> im sure jordan didnt invent this training method but hes certainly popularized it on his website trainedbyJP
> 
> ive ran countless different programs and made my own using the knowledge ive gained from pre written programs, articles and ebooks but something i have not trained is jordans approach and it has sparked my interest
> 
> ...


 Someone posted a video on this a Month or so ago, may of even been you?

ive changed my training to a similar fashion. I do 5 warm up sets on the first exercise to bet the blood flowing and warmed up from high reps to 1 rep on the heavy working set and my strength has flown up. I need a de load week as I've been pushing hard and am now aching all over but this training method is definitely working for me.

Edit. I just looked at my notes and started this on the 1.5.19

my smith machine behind head shoulder press was 40+bar 1x7 30+bar 1x12

this morning was 72.5+bar 1x8 57.5+bar 1x14


----------

