# 45 years old just back to training... permanently tired and joint pains..HGH or what?



## Grannyfighter

45 yr old female just back into training as a thai fighter.. on here because you guys seem to really know your diets and supplements... RESPECT...

Permanently exhausted... and lots of joint pains.. yes I know I do an impact activity...

have large muscle mass.. (great genetics).

But cannot lose weight... my age seems to have changed hormone balance... and weight is now going on in a way it never has....

HELP...

Lots of people have suggested HGH????????

I am not a creatine fan by the way.


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## Guest

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## Grannyfighter

Cheers, no I'm not training anywhere near as hard as before and no over training.. currently in a country where HGH injections are legal and affordable... I am told 2icu a day for women... Its a whole new thing for me... all advice appreciated....


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## Guest

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## kuju

hey Grannyyfighter.... I woiuld say I love the name but i'm the same age and don't even remotely feel grandadish!!! (it is funny though..)

Anyhooo - I would say forget growth hormone for now. Do not look to supplements of any kind just yet. Firstly - your diet. If that isn't spot on then everything else will likely go a bit awry as well. If you're eating less calories per day than you need and your diet is such that you get a good balance of both essential and desirable macro nutrients - then you will lose weight. End of. If it's not happening then either diet or training are likely wrong and my money is on diet.

Secondly - the pains of training. Basically it's gods way of telling people our age that we should probably know better  I use CNP Pro Tect and get great results from it. Also fish oils as Romper suggested.... I use the My Protein Krill oils - seem to be really good for me. So for the joint pain I WOULD use supplements.

Ultimately; at our age we cannot train as hard, we take longer to recover and results come slower. But fortunately we usually have a little more patience....and it will happen. Just keep going and you'll get there.

When I find things aren't quite going "right" with my training etc I keep a log of everything I eat( what, when, how much, calories, protein, carbs, fats and water), any physical activity, rest and recovery times (quality of sleep etc etc) for at least two weeks. THat almost always shows up some shortfall and again...it's usually in the diet. It's a pain but worth it I think. You could use something like My Fitness Pal to record it all so it does some of the working out for you.

Otherwise.......... guess we just have to accept we're not 25 anymore eh?

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


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## ausbuilt

Grannyfighter said:


> 45 yr old female just back into training as a thai fighter.. on here because you guys seem to really know your diets and supplements... RESPECT...
> 
> Permanently exhausted... and lots of joint pains.. yes I know I do an impact activity...
> 
> have large muscle mass.. (great genetics).
> 
> But cannot lose weight... my age seems to have changed hormone balance... and weight is now going on in a way it never has....
> 
> HELP...
> 
> Lots of people have suggested HGH????????
> 
> I am not a creatine fan by the way.


you have hit the nail on the head- HGH IS THE ANSWER- I'm OVER 40... and i was likewise tired, with aching joints just getting out of bed in the morning.. I do 2iu of HGH per day, and it has transformed my life... since then my parents, in their 60s have also started and RAVE about the life changing feeling..

However, what many neglect is the thyroid side; its essential to supplement HGH with T4.. I have a great dr who's an expert in the area, and he always advocates t4 with HGH..


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## kuju

With all due respect - I would always hesitate to say any drug "is THE answer". "AN" answer yes...... but to put it in perspective - i don't use hgh, it changed my diet and training and now I get better results, with no joint pain at all. I ache from training yes, but everyone does no matter what age. Sure i can't hammer it like I did 20 years ago...but then I don't really need to. I'm still in better shape than I was then.

I'm not saying hgh has no benefits but I would always advocate getting all the natural, non-assisted aspects of training spot on before even thinking about chemical interventions...especially ones that involve injections.


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## switch

TRAIN DIET DIET DIET DIET DIET SLEEP SLEEP

If you are sure its hormonal why not take the guess work out and hit the doctors, tell him about this and let him run some tests see if your lacking in test etc, its the cheapest way to find out if anything is lacking and very cheap remidy if it is, certianly takes the guessing out of it, and any doc worth his salt will listen to your concerns and test your for your worrries if they are valid.

Best of luck with it anyway and respect for getting back too it !


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## Jimbo 1

I would get some bloods done & see where you GH & Test levels are @

2iu a day would be the correct starting point, to be honest you can only turn age back so far natty GH may well be your answer

But get the bloods done first your problem may well lay somewhere else.


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## Jimbo 1

ausbuilt said:


> you have hit the nail on the head- HGH IS THE ANSWER- I'm OVER 40... and i was likewise tired, with aching joints just getting out of bed in the morning.. I do 2iu of HGH per day, and it has transformed my life... since then my parents, in their 60s have also started and RAVE about the life changing feeling..
> 
> However, what many neglect is the thyroid side; its essential to supplement HGH with T4.. I have a great dr who's an expert in the area, and he always advocates t4 with HGH..


How much T-4 should you take? I'm currently on a bulking cycle & also using 5ius HGH a day


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## ausbuilt

Jimbo 1 said:


> How much T-4 should you take? I'm currently on a bulking cycle & also using 5ius HGH a day


Unlike probably everyone else here... I get my HGH & T4 dosage prescribed by a specialist endocrinologist/anti-aging dr...

and basically, if you're using hgh without T4.. lets say its questionable whether your adrenals can cope- and this is why so many people take LOADS of HGH and then say chinese GH is crap etc; the body just won't use it on its own-it may at the start, but after 2-3months, it wont...

I'm on 100mcg of T4, and thats on 2iu of GH/day- but that doesn't mean its right for you- have you had your free T4 and T3 levels tested? have you taken your body temp upon arising for 5 days before starting HGH, then kept doing it- you will notice that initially your body temp will rise.. and then at some point (usually 2-3months) drop back as your thyroid levels drop... so you need to add T4 (there is ample research why for GH T4 is effective, and T3 not.. from a supplementation perspective..

if you can't be bothered doing blood tests. at least start measuring your morning body temp- you need a digital in ear thermometer to be accurate enough- 0.6 drop for 3 days in a row from baseline (or increased HGH temp) means your thyroid function is dropping.. (i've posted this before).

at min, you'd prob start at 50mcg day... then keep measuring, and increase when your temp drops again..it will...

use of T4 with HGH is not related to bulking/cutting, simply to enable your body to use it...


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## ausbuilt

kuju said:


> hey Grannyyfighter.... I woiuld say I love the name but i'm the same age and don't even remotely feel grandadish!!! (it is funny though..)
> 
> Anyhooo - I would say forget growth hormone for now. Do not look to supplements of any kind just yet. Firstly - your diet. If that isn't spot on then everything else will likely go a bit awry as well. If you're eating less calories per day than you need and your diet is such that you get a good balance of both essential and desirable macro nutrients - then you will lose weight. End of. If it's not happening then either diet or training are likely wrong and my money is on diet.
> 
> use of hgh is unrelated to training- its prescribed by anti-agin practitioners to enhance the quality of life, so that you do not have to cope with aches/pains and slow metabolism for a start. My parents have never been to the gym but are certainly more active since starting, have increased vigour, more positve view of life, and are certainly not complaining of aches and pains. They have lost a little weight, about 1 clothing size, but they do not eat differently or do any more exercise than the occasional walk..
> 
> Secondly - the pains of training. Basically it's gods way of telling people our age that we should probably know better  I use CNP Pro Tect and get great results from it. Also fish oils as Romper suggested.... I use the My Protein Krill oils - seem to be really good for me. So for the joint pain I WOULD use supplements.
> 
> well if its gods way of saying we should know better, why take krill oils? you should just stop exercising.. right? What does it matter whether you choose krill oil or HGH- you're seeking relief from aches and pains- however, one is more effective than the other..
> 
> Ultimately; at our age we cannot train as hard, we take longer to recover and results come slower. But fortunately we usually have a little more patience....and it will happen. Just keep going and you'll get there.
> 
> When I find things aren't quite going "right" with my training etc I keep a log of everything I eat( what, when, how much, calories, protein, carbs, fats and water), any physical activity, rest and recovery times (quality of sleep etc etc) for at least two weeks. THat almost always shows up some shortfall and again...it's usually in the diet. It's a pain but worth it I think. You could use something like My Fitness Pal to record it all so it does some of the working out for you.
> 
> Otherwise.......... guess we just have to accept we're not 25 anymore eh?
> 
> oddly, we now live in an age, where if you want to have bigger muscles you can take AAS, if you want to have bigger breasts- you can have implants, if you want a tan you can use a sunbed, or melanotan; if you want to cut up you can take clen/t3/eca; if you want to stop wrinkles, theres fillers and botox.... and if you want to feel as good in your 40s as in your 20s.. there HGH... don't knock it 'til you've tried it...
> 
> I actually advocate seeing a good anti-aging Dr, but they can be expensive.. well as always in life, its better to be richer than poorer for quality of life.. however in the age of the interweb (as clarkson calls it) even those of modest means can source information and products once reserved for the very rich in swiss/us clinics..
> 
> NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


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## Jimbo 1

ausbuilt said:


> Unlike probably everyone else here... I get my HGH & T4 dosage prescribed by a specialist endocrinologist/anti-aging dr...
> 
> and basically, if you're using hgh without T4.. lets say its questionable whether your adrenals can cope- and this is why so many people take LOADS of HGH and then say chinese GH is crap etc; the body just won't use it on its own-it may at the start, but after 2-3months, it wont...
> 
> I'm on 100mcg of T4, and thats on 2iu of GH/day- but that doesn't mean its right for you- have you had your free T4 and T3 levels tested? have you taken your body temp upon arising for 5 days before starting HGH, then kept doing it- you will notice that initially your body temp will rise.. and then at some point (usually 2-3months) drop back as your thyroid levels drop... so you need to add T4 (there is ample research why for GH T4 is effective, and T3 not.. from a supplementation perspective..
> 
> if you can't be bothered doing blood tests. at least start measuring your morning body temp- you need a digital in ear thermometer to be accurate enough- 0.6 drop for 3 days in a row from baseline (or increased HGH temp) means your thyroid function is dropping.. (i've posted this before).
> 
> at min, you'd prob start at 50mcg day... then keep measuring, and increase when your temp drops again..it will...
> 
> use of T4 with HGH is not related to bulking/cutting, simply to enable your body to use it...


Cheers for that i did read about this but never knew it was so important i also read about insulin iv just ordered some T-4 & i will get a digital in ear thermometer


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## Bish83

To the op just type in "hgh side effects" in google. It can give some very nice positives but it doesnt come without some downsides either. Reason you might want to just sort out diet and get into a proper sleeping pattern as sleeping at different times each day can have an affect on your hgh too.

I read about a new form of steroids coming out that will be bio-identical but not sure how safe they'd be or how much more they would cost.


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## kuju

Ausbuilt - thanks for your reply to my post...i should probably start by saying i'm not knocking the benfits of using HGH necessarily. And I really like that you suggest seeing an appropriate doctor rather than just plunging into injecting drugs with little or no knowledge.

However, you have to bear in mind these threads go out to a very wide audience and I was just making the point that reaching for a supplement isn't necessarily the right thing to do. We know very little about granny fighter other than she's a 45 year old female who's started doing thai boxing, is aching from it, seems to feel permanently exhausted and is struggling to lose weight.

Without a medical assessment how are we to know there isn't some underlying cause that could actually be made worse by injecting a powerful hormone or messing with thyroid drugs?

My default position is always to suggest a wholly natural approach to everything. Yes you're right we do have all these wonderful drugs and implants but that doesn't mean they are always appropriate to use. Implants...great...some guys love them. I think they look and feel awful. AAS - no problem with people doing them whatsoever......but what about if the individual using is a 16 year old with no concept of diet or training? I'm not saying that what you posted was wrong per se..... but whilst GH may be very effective in relieveing joint pain...does that ALWAYS apply to ALL people who use it?

More importantly - your drugs are presumably scripted. I'm guessing it could be for grannyfighter too - but many other people will read this and source something from teh internet or some bloke down the pub. Fake and counterfeit gear is rife...so what peopel are taking may not actually be GH and T4 - in which case they could get very very different results.

So - bottom line.......i'm not disagreeing with you but I think it's important to have all options laid out and always, always, start with the natural and non-invasive ones. I would also respectfully suggest that it's important to find out more about someone before pointing them at powerful injectables.


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## ausbuilt

kuju said:


> Ausbuilt - thanks for your reply to my post...i should probably start by saying i'm not knocking the benfits of using HGH necessarily. And I really like that you suggest seeing an appropriate doctor rather than just plunging into injecting drugs with little or no knowledge.
> 
> However, you have to bear in mind these threads go out to a very wide audience and I was just making the point that reaching for a supplement isn't necessarily the right thing to do. We know very little about granny fighter other than she's a 45 year old female who's started doing thai boxing, is aching from it, seems to feel permanently exhausted and is struggling to lose weight.
> 
> Without a medical assessment how are we to know there isn't some underlying cause that could actually be made worse by injecting a powerful hormone or messing with thyroid drugs?
> 
> My default position is always to suggest a wholly natural approach to everything. Yes you're right we do have all these wonderful drugs and implants but that doesn't mean they are always appropriate to use. Implants...great...some guys love them. I think they look and feel awful. AAS - no problem with people doing them whatsoever......but what about if the individual using is a 16 year old with no concept of diet or training? I'm not saying that what you posted was wrong per se..... but whilst GH may be very effective in relieveing joint pain...does that ALWAYS apply to ALL people who use it?
> 
> More importantly - your drugs are presumably scripted. I'm guessing it could be for grannyfighter too - but many other people will read this and source something from teh internet or some bloke down the pub. Fake and counterfeit gear is rife...so what peopel are taking may not actually be GH and T4 - in which case they could get very very different results.
> 
> So - bottom line.......i'm not disagreeing with you but I think it's important to have all options laid out and always, always, start with the natural and non-invasive ones. I would also respectfully suggest that it's important to find out more about someone before pointing them at powerful injectables.


We actually do mean the same thing, I think she would do well from getting her hormones checked (but not by a GP, but an endocrinologist). These days even GPs are willing to give HRT to women and TRT to men.... a big change from 10 years ago.. HGH was very expensive (still is, but the chinese versions are cheaper) hence not commonly prescribed except on a private script..

I always make the point that blood tests (and correct interpretation) are important.. I feel to few on here monitor themselves well enough.. however, I'm practical and try to share some means of testing (i.e body temp for thyroid) that work and are cheap and doable for those unwilling/unable to do the blood tests..

I always hope that my ideas are researched by others.. and are not meant as gospel; but to be taken for a well researched method if nothing else.. I always hope that my advice will save people from just blindly applying meds with no proper reason/thought for dosage that applies to their body..


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## ausbuilt

Bish83 said:


> To the op just type in "hgh side effects" in google. It can give some very nice positives but it doesnt come without some downsides either. Reason you might want to just sort out diet and get into a proper sleeping pattern as sleeping at different times each day can have an affect on your hgh too.
> 
> I read about a new form of steroids coming out that will be bio-identical but not sure how safe they'd be or how much more they would cost.


ALL meds have side effects, no doubt. No such thing as a med with no side effects, even aspirin!

Bio-identical is a bit of hype though- its like saying vitamin c from an orange is different to vitamin c tablet.. no my friend they are structurally identical...

there is no bio-identical D-bol, as there is no d-bol in your body... there is bio-identical test, and has been for years- its called test-suspension.. test with no esters.. exactly the same as in your body...

mind you , even test thats esterified (sus250, test e, cyp, etc) are also identical once the liver cleaves of the ester...


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## craftybutcher

Just popping in to chestbump a 45 year old thai boxer


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## Grannyfighter

cheers, any Dr recommendations would be superb!


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## Grannyfighter

Have just booked to see a Dr in london who will run hormone and endocrine tests, to get this right. I will google T4 and find out what it is.. I don't want to bulk or do steroids really. Pretty good with sleep, supplements, veggies etc... great advice.


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## Maturemuscle

Hi, if you are still around on this forum I would love to hear how you got on with the tests and the endocrinologist.

I was blaming my age for all kinds of thing like tiredness, not sleeping well and joint pains. In the end my bloods were tested and I was referred to an endocrinologist for further tests. Turns out I have hypothyroidism and a benign tumour on my thyroid. The good news is that I feel fantastic after being put on T4, better than I have felt for a couple of years. I was told to carry on training hard as they want me to keep my level of fitness up in case I have to have surgery eventually. Hope you got it all sorted!


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## slunkeh

ausbuilt said:


> Unlike probably everyone else here... I get my HGH & T4 dosage prescribed by a specialist endocrinologist/anti-aging dr...
> 
> and basically, if you're using hgh without T4.. lets say its questionable whether your adrenals can cope- and this is why so many people take LOADS of HGH and then say chinese GH is crap etc; the body just won't use it on its own-it may at the start, but after 2-3months, it wont...
> 
> I'm on 100mcg of T4, and thats on 2iu of GH/day- but that doesn't mean its right for you- have you had your free T4 and T3 levels tested? have you taken your body temp upon arising for 5 days before starting HGH, then kept doing it- you will notice that initially your body temp will rise.. and then at some point (usually 2-3months) drop back as your thyroid levels drop... so you need to add T4 (there is ample research why for GH T4 is effective, and T3 not.. from a supplementation perspective..
> 
> if you can't be bothered doing blood tests. at least start measuring your morning body temp- you need a digital in ear thermometer to be accurate enough- 0.6 drop for 3 days in a row from baseline (or increased HGH temp) means your thyroid function is dropping.. (i've posted this before).
> 
> at min, you'd prob start at 50mcg day... then keep measuring, and increase when your temp drops again..it will...
> 
> use of T4 with HGH is not related to bulking/cutting, simply to enable your body to use it...


Just wanted to ask, where does one find a doctor/specialist willing to advise on dosages of hormones etc. How do they get around the legal issues surrounding these substances. I would imagine you have to go to a private clinic which in turn is probably expensive in itself.


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