# Please dont laugh!



## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

okay so I'm thinking ....my stats

weight 59.8kg

hieght 6" 0"

body fat 3%

I have always had a really thin frame from the day I was born. My sixpack shows really good....but so does my ribs... :confused1:

Doctor says there's nothing wrong with me, I am eating over 3000cals a day and going to the gym 6 times a week with a good rutine including compound exercises but it sure isnt doing anything for me....3 years later and my metabolism is still at it without me doing any cardio!

I know all about steroids from injecting it to bulking to cutting, pct... Im 19 years old and my freinds have been bugging me to hit up a couple of cycles and im thinking about it.. my confidence is really down... so Im asking all the experienced member on the forum to tell me what they think.


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## nothing2fear (Jul 7, 2007)

hello mate,

Firstly, what does your diet look like?


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

*typical day *

*Meal 1*

3 eggs

weetabix or some bread

protein shake

*Meal 2*

tuna sandwich

fruit smoothie

*Meal 3*

footlong subway sandwich meal

*Meal 4*

protein shake

*Meal 5*

Rice with some meat

*training*

mon -back/biceps/forearms

tues -chest/triceps/abs

wed -shoulders/legs

thurs -back/biceps/forearms

frid -chest/triceps/abs

satur -shoulders/legs

sun - rest


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

Laugh?! Some people would kill to have your metabolism:laugh:


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## ParaManiac (Mar 20, 2007)

Too much training and not enough eating


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## Jux (Jul 23, 2008)

More carbs, like brown rice, oats, wholewheat pasta etc.

Do a 3 day split, don't work the same group of muscles more than once a week.


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

okay..thanks for the input guys...although I gotta ask how much time do you usually spend in the gym?.... I spend on average 1hr 15 minutes and I always keep it intense.


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## neildo (Oct 9, 2008)

God i'm the same height as you, only 5% more bf but 25kgs heavier and i feel skinny!!! I'd agree with everyone else so far the only way you're going to grow is solid, lean and BIG calories....lots of complex carbs and good sources of protein....i'd agree with others about overtraining, that is my actual split that vince suggested and it's working well for me  Seriously if you are training a lot the calories will be needed to build the muscle, maybe think about a weight gainer type shake as well to boost your cals up


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## neildo (Oct 9, 2008)

As for time, an hour max for me...maybe 50mins of lifting and 10 mins of ab work to end on ab days. Intense is good but let yourself rest between each set properly and its good to have a wee warmup at the start too


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

no one laughs at problems like this and if they did, theyd be the ones laughed at, i was exactly the same as you, i started this lifting at only a 119lbs.

first of all,1. your overtraining because your training to many days and theres no way your eating enough to recover anyway, your diets probably not even 50% of 3000+cals per day, follow what vince posted, more complex carbs, more protein, try adding some oils in your diet for easy callories, natty peanut butter, almonds, whole eggs, olive oil, milk.

ive got some good news for you actually that very few realise, you know so called hard gainers like yourself and i, theres no such thing, just a lack of knowledge, were actually the luckiest people not the worst like you think because skinny guys can pack on the muscle the quickest and hardly any bodyfat because a guy of your bodytype will only ever pack on muscle, no matter how much you put away.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

sorry mate but you are not 3% bodyfat if you was then you would be very ill...you may be skinny but this does not mean you have that low bodyfat...how did you measure it?


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

if you have a fast metabolism use it and eat the diet that vince has suggested but i would add alot of junk food to it aswell to get the calorie's up also adding olive oil to everything including shakes will help you get the cals up,

training wise just stick to these lifts and consitantly try to add weight to thye bar when you can and try to train 2-3 days a week

squats

deadlifts

o.h press

chin ups

bent row bench press.


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## pudj (Apr 25, 2008)

cynerain said:


> okay so I'm thinking ....my stats
> 
> weight 59.8kg
> 
> ...


 You dont know all about steroids ect there's guys that have been taking them for a long long time and they dont know all about them the simple fact that diffrent people have diffrent reactions to them is just a start,Forget about the roids mate you need to up the calories if you put 3000 + cals a day into your body I gaurentee you'll put weight on 2 years of propper eating will get you very good gains eating is hard work its as hard if not harder than the actual lifting,I started out at 9 1/2 stone luckily for me my brother is a bodybuilder he learnt me to eat right I got to 10.8 stone in 2 years then hit a wall, eventually I turned to steroids this decision was not taken lightly.


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## gearuser (Nov 16, 2008)

im 5% right now and going lower.. and im not ill.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

5% is seriously, seriously lean. People at the gym throw out these numbers about how lean they are but if I could count the amount of people who have told me they are 4-5% and in reality are like 9-10% I`d be rich!

People use these stupid electrical impedence machines that ask for your height, weight, eye colour etc and if your too heavy for your height they chuck out b*ll**** numbers saying your either miles fatter or miles leaner than you are.

If your 5% put a pic up and we can decide


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

100g oats

2 scoops whey

2 bananas

1 tablespoon Peanut butter

Whisk up in a blender.

Approx 800 kcals.

Get two of those plus 4 good other meals into you a day and you'll start putting on some mass. Also a push/pull/legs as already reccommened is a good idea.

Lam.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

gearuser said:


> im 5% right now and going lower.. and im not ill.


so you have cross straitions on your quads/delts/triceps along with full abs and intercostals...i would love to see a pic....along with the method you used to calcalate this BF% reading


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

Vince said:


> Sorry but i disagree on the junk food.
> 
> Why the need for junk calories? Just to up the total? But what's the point if we're not adding the right macronutrients? If on the diet i posted you're still hungry increase the amounts of good food...junk calories will not grow muscle just fat.


 respectively i would argue that not everyone can just add more clean food to there diet. if your eating as much clean food as you possibly can and still need more then your best option is to add in simple sugars which is normally the case with very ectomophic people.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

i dont agree you have to eat junk food to get enough callories, i made my gains by eating clean with no problems, id also leave out the weigh gainers, all they probably do is make you build fat, most of them are full of sugars and high lactose. this is the weight gainer i use.

source some grounded almonds

1. pour 100g grounded almonds into a shaker

2. add one scoop of whey powder to give it some flavour.

3. add some skimmed milk or water

100g almonds = 620 cals

1 scoop whey powder usually = 128 cals

thats nearly 750 callories dow the hatch in a matter of minutes, even 50g of almonds and 1 scoop of whey powder will give you some clean fast easy cals:thumbup1:


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

junk foods just easy to eat, and wms is pretty much a simple sugar.


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

I`d say add in a shake or two if you cant eat anymore whole food....

Oats, whey, peanut butter etc - blends it up and guzzle it down.

Also, not all weight gainers are high in sugar - choose one low in sugar and high in protein, complex carbs and EFA`s and they are good to go


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> respectively i would argue that not everyone can just add more clean food to there diet. if your eating as much clean food as you possibly can and still need more then your best option is to add in simple sugars which is normally the case with very ectomophic people.


You can always add clean food or a quality supplement. No excuse.


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> I`d say add in a shake or two if you cant eat anymore whole food....
> 
> Oats, whey, peanut butter etc - blends it up and guzzle it down.
> 
> Also, not all weight gainers are high in sugar - choose one low in sugar and high in protein, complex carbs and EFA`s and they are good to go


Boditronics Nutopia is an excellent shake and something I use to add extra quality calories.


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## tommy y (Apr 7, 2008)

doubt many people are 5% bf when not dieting, if you are then you must be fcked all the time, i feel sorry for you. i was like a zombie in the later stages of the diet. altho i have got a mate who eats literally nothin but ****, binges all weekend an is shredded all year an still holds his muscle, a exception he's a freak!


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## Littleluke (Nov 21, 2005)

tommy y said:


> doubt many people are 5% bf when not dieting, if you are then you must be fcked all the time, i feel sorry for you. i was like a zombie in the later stages of the diet. altho i have got a mate who eats literally nothin but ****, binges all weekend an is shredded all year an still holds his muscle, a exception he's a freak!


Ahmen to that! A light breeze would have knocked me over 3 weeks out LOL


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Less than 9 and half stone, 6ft tall and 3%bf, sounds as if your malnutritioned.

Hope you work things out bro, listen to the more experienced guys on here and you'll be fine.

My 2p worth, get a good diet sorted before going to the gym, I think I'd go with Vince and Luke on this one mate, but I'm sure they'd both agree a little cheat food won't do you much harm at the moment:thumb:


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Vince said:


> Sorry but gaining CLEAN weight is not easy and junk is just a quik fix to gain weight on the scale but NOT muscle.
> 
> Waxy Maize is a complex carb but is assimilated quickly like a simple carb...so you have no bloat *but no high insuline spike*!


Sorry mate, think you've got this one wrong, its high GI and so will cause an insulin spike, just like malto is a complex carb and is insulegenic.


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

insulin is what drives amino acid's into the muscles aswell as fat right and is highly anabolic right? i know its a bad thing if your trying to loss fat but he has clearly stated that fat is not a problem and he's trying to build muscle.


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

Vince said:


> Of course it will cause a spike, every carb source will cause a spike...but not the sort of spike simple sugars would. That was my point.


maltodextin a complex carb source causes the same insulin spike as dextrose a simple one, what evidence do you have the WMS is not the same?


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

a nice easy way to add kcals is to take a tablespoon of olive oil in each meal

no nasty sugars in that


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

complex carbs are basicly fibre and sugar so if you have already ate aload of clean food why do you need to fill precious stomach space with fibre? the extra fibres not going to help him grow and he's not going to be able to eat as many cals.

im not suggesting that he sits down at mc d's 8 times a day but eating your clean food and then maybe have some junk if you cant get the cals in eatng 100% clean.

everyones different i know guys who eat nothing but junk and are ripped (britbb will know who im talking about) and other guys who eat lean all the time and still put on alot of fat, its a sliding scale most people are somewhere in the middle.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Jimmy said:


> a nice easy way to add kcals is to take a tablespoon of olive oil in each meal
> 
> no nasty sugars in that


olive oil is the king of all callories, no question:thumb:


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## toxo (Mar 11, 2008)

i think the problem with that aproach is that your not going to digest a gut full of protien fat and fibre in 3 hours every 3 hours so your either going to be eating less overall or pooping a large amount of half digested cals out the other end, just because your eating alot of cals dosnt mean your processing then all, like you said all cals are not the same


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

guys i think we have strayed a little off topic arguing between yourselves about adding extra Calories.....we all have our own ways to do things best thing for the OP is for us to make our own suggestions on how he can add extra calories to his diet then leave it at that....this will give the OP a choice....

i personally would add Olive oil to all your meals and Peanut butter to all your shakes...


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## BSD (Feb 2, 2008)

Vince said:


> Mate jury is still out on that one.
> 
> There's one side claiming malto and waxy do cause a high insulin response since they follow the known theory that the faster sugar (glucose) hits the blood stream the larger the insulin response.
> 
> ...


Vince

WMS does not cause a similar spike to say Dextrose. We tested this using the standard GTT with our Mass Gainer when we wanted to choose a suitable Carb source.

WMS alone on an empty stomach causes a spike on a blood sugar counter at around 10.5-11mmol [50g] whereas 50g dextrose went over 12mmol nearer 13.

Obviously WMS clears the system faster as well but another indicator also is that taking WMS alone and comparing it with Dextrose - you will more than likely observe that you will not get the Dextrose "sugar wobblies" which is where the BG shoots up rather fast.

Malto gives a similar [but slightly higher] reading than WMS 12.4 mmol [this was based on standard Maltodextrin - the Low DE gave a lower reading]

Hope this helps


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## Lou (Jul 27, 2008)

> Ok mate..you're nowhere near 3000kcal, you're nowhere near 2000 for that matter...anyway just a suggestion
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

so do i

but my sphincter loves them!!!


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> sorry mate but you are not 3% bodyfat if you was then you would be very ill...you may be skinny but this does not mean you have that low bodyfat...how did you measure it?


I take a body mass index every month and trust me ...My body fat is 3%... there would be no point in lying as I really need the advice..lol


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

mate beleive the guys, likley hood is you are not 3% . im sure the guys on stage are like 4-5% so compare yourself to them and then think about it. plus bmi is a pile imo, and not the same as bf%


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2008)

it basically says that im underweight! :cursing:


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

cynerain said:


> I take a body mass index every month and trust me ...My body fat is 3%... there would be no point in lying as I really need the advice..lol


ok then please put a picture up of your abs or back or even quads....

sorry mate but the body holds 3% around the organs so if you are that low then you would be in hospital.....put a picture up this would solve the mystery


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## MASSIVEMONSTER (May 28, 2006)

He isnt 3% the guy hasnt a clue. BMI and body fat arent directly correlated. My BMI is 33 and I am 8.5% so it has no relevance


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

google my trainer and gym owner "paul george" he stands at 7% bodyfat and hes a 3 times world physique champion at that weight and i gurantee you with your life your not at the bf% he is, your not 3%. Joanna thomas has been at 5% at the lowest and that was diagnosed at highly dangerous and that was just in compatition.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

yes mate i agree i am 33 on the BMI but am 10%


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

MASSIVEMONSTER said:


> He isnt 3% the guy hasnt a clue. BMI and body fat arent directly correlated. My BMI is 33 and I am 8.5% so it has no relevance


mate ....I'm certain my body fat is right....but you could advise me instead you negate.

useless


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

andysutils said:


> google my trainer and gym owner "paul george" he stands at 7% bodyfat and hes a 3 times world physique champion at that weight and i gurantee you with your life your not at the bf% he is, your not 3%. Joanna thomas has been at 5% at the lowest and that was diagnosed at highly dangerous and that was just in compatition.


your talking about bloody bodybuilders mate... if i lose a couple of pounds at the stage i am...id be considered aneriexic... :surrender:


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

no laughing here bro...you have taken the first step in the right direction...hope you get lots of info and ease into training nicely....dont get dis-heartened,stick with it....and all will fall into place....diet,training and rest...simple!!!!!

you are tall and at that bodyweight have a lot of hardwork...but stick with it....dont know if thats a correct diagnosis of bodyfat%...but nonetheless...stay on track mate.....your on the right track,with great info here,keep asking questions!!!!


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

cynerain said:


> your talking about bloody bodybuilders mate... if i lose a couple of pounds at the stage i am...id be considered aneriexic... :surrender:


if you were 3%, you could see every fibre of muscle in your body, you would have veins spread out like a road map all over your body. legs, arms and stomach.

ignore the bmi, it's useless. if your only considered anorexic if you were to lose a few lbs, you are definately not 3%.


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## anabolic ant (Jun 5, 2008)

i guess your estimate is based on external bodyfat %...but how did you come to this conclusion of 3% BF?

i used harpenden fat calipers when i did my project on alcohol and obesity at uni,used a jackson & pollock 3 skinfold equation to calculate bodyfat %...and 3% BF is mighty low...i mean your body water levels may be dangerous at this level....anorexics at their height of illness have this bodyfat %!!!

i dont know what method you have used or source told you this,but this minimal % is very low,and if this is true,your internal organ fat will be dangerously low,the fatty tissue serves as a safety,also cushioning for organs against damage!!!!

your liver and kidneys would be high risk,and electrolyte balance would be very dangerous to your heart!!!!!!

i ca go on,with the list of dangers etc here,but i'm not into scaremongering,this may just be calculation error or mistake!!!!

i dont doubt you have a low BF %,but this is extremely low,please verify your source of anthropometry(man-measuring) or method of calculating your BF %,there may be some error or explanation!!!!!!!!!

if correct,you may be genetically very low and rare!!!!!

either way...you are here to improve,grow and increase total nutritional calories...so well done for that...!!!!!!


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## thestudbeast (Jul 20, 2007)

ParaManiac said:


> Too much training and not enough eating


Your question was answered right here

the rest of the posts are just curiosity it happens on forums.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

gearuser said:


> im 5% right now and going lower.. and im not ill.


Please post your pix mate.

You must look incredible!

Why do you have no avatar pic or pics of yourself on the forum if you look so shredded?

Please post them up mate to show us all some inspiration, thanks


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

cynerain said:


> I take a body mass index every month and trust me ...My body fat is 3%... there would be no point in lying as I really need the advice..lol


Simple mate...post up a pic and we will judge.

If you are 3% bodyfat i presume you have striations in your quads, glutes, calves, triceps, chest, even in the interconnecting heads of the back/lats.

3% is also burning away at the fat around your kidneys and liver...if i were you id eat something pretty fukin fast, because if you are that shredded you are gonna die any minute...i reccomend an nlarge with every single meal, 6 solid meals a day with 6 nlarge's a day.

If you are genuinely 3% bodyfat take a few pix as well to send to guinness book of records because u have the lowest bodyfat on a human alive.


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## jjb1 (Jun 28, 2007)

bit off topic but jay cutler saying hes below 3% here, what do you guys think?


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## andibeqiri (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok now im confused then...


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## Golden Man (Sep 10, 2005)

inny or not at 3% your either a walking ribcage:laugh: or ultra shredded as previously been said.Secondly im no expert but junk food is EXACTLY what it says it is junk food although for me it tastes nice.

Dude who posted the pic mate just eat more i went t a doc and he basically shocked me as he informed me that i wasnt eating enough although like most skinny people I claimed i was eating "loads".


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

this is david henry at exactly 3% bf so heres the final proof in the pudding, do you look like this?


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

cynerain said:


> mate ....I'm certain my body fat is right....but you could advise me instead you negate.
> 
> useless


not exactly mate we need to believe you so we can advise appropraitly...the fact is mate you are not 3% you can kid yourself all you want...

the advise has been given...eat more food


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## MrWilson (Nov 20, 2008)

Ive read all this and ive forgot the original question.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

andysutils said:


> this is david henry at exactly 3% bf so heres the final proof in the pudding, do you look like this?


Tbh i dont think that hes 3% there either.

The only guys who possibly got as low as 3% were munzer and bennaziza, both are now dead!

3.5-4% is the lowest you can really go without eating into the fat around your liver/kidneys and dying mate.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

okay ..you guys have to understand that im really skinny and burn my calories like crazy... I dont know how hard it is for some people to understand that all the people you mentioned were body builders and im not one...im underweight with no fat problems... thast why i consider myself in a real good position to bulk up....

I got another question....will i put on a lot of fat?...will my metabolism slow down if there is an increase of fast?


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2008)

Vince said:


> He asked us not to laugh...then he goes on about being 3% BF...not making our job easy i'd say :lol:


well your saying that as if I wrote it on my chest next the the big S..lol

mate my ribs stick out and i cant tell the diffrence between my collerbone and my shoulders...lol


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

what the guys are saying mate is that at 3% bf you would be in hospital criticaly ill. they are not flaming you just asking you to listen to other people, esp these guys who have great experience and knowledge of the subject. these guys do on stage at like 5% and they work ridiculasly hard to get there so its actually disrespectfull to blatantley ignore what they are saying and stick with '' i know i am '' . for starters you didnt seem to knw the difference between bmi and bf%. just post up a pic and all will be sorted and if you are anywere near that low, like te guys said the starations and vascilarity will be ammence.


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## donggle (Aug 28, 2007)

Do you look like this? This is very very low % bodyfat, he weighed around 55-60kg in these pics...


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

being skinny and having a low BF does not necessarily go together i have friends who are marathon runners and are very skinny their BF is not as low as many would think they just have low muscle mass....

i will move this into the gaining weight section


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

bump for later...


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

any updates withe these pics lads?


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

my personal advice would be as whart has been stated with food that many people have kindly repeated for you again and again is eat as clean as you can, train hard. keep consistent, soon your body should ask for more foood, the bigger you get the more you going to have to eat to get bigger, always be calorie surplus, or make sure you food intake is regular and always provides a balanced meal protein,carbs,fats, vitamins minerals etc. make sure you take a mutlivitimin as having a low bodyfat as your means you could be malnurished.

i also dont believe in eating junk to gain calories.hope this helps.


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## delhibuilder (Mar 24, 2008)

oh and drink plenty of water.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2008)

oh sh!t......Iv just realised... im getting bmi and body fat mixed up.

my bad people.... (its all in the learning phase)loll

im eating a lot of stuff people wish they could everyday...donuts, cake,fry ups.... but its only till i raise my weight a lil bit then ill go healthy.


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## warren (Jun 16, 2008)

personally id still go for healthier options mate, if not only for your health. i stay lean and can get away with eating rubbish but still keep it to a min. replace the donuts and cakes with fruit and veg. and the fry upswith good old sunday lunch style meals, lots of veg and good meat.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2008)

cynerain said:


> oh sh!t......Iv just realised... im getting bmi and body fat mixed up.
> 
> my bad people.... (its all in the learning phase)loll
> 
> im eating a lot of stuff people wish they could everyday...donuts, cake,fry ups.... but its only till i raise my weight a lil bit then ill go healthy.


 You are not 3 on the bmi scale either mate:rolleyes:

ffs just post up a picture already.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

cynerain said:


> im eating a lot of stuff people wish they could everyday...donuts, cake,fry ups.... but its only till i raise my weight a lil bit then ill go healthy.


junk food is harder to digest, unhealthy and gives you excess fatigue so ive no idea for the life of me why people advise his kind of diet, even for a skinny hardgainer.

clean food is better for you, makes you feel better, makes you feel less fatigued, easier to digest and will give you lean mass quicker and easier, not to mention its better for the skin.

an average joey junk diet will not help you with OR without gear, any body transformation requires a proper diet, gear or no gear.

seems that the term bulking is now about not gaining lean mass but fatass i know which one i went for.


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