# Natural or not



## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

It's not to argue whether women should or shouldn't have muscle or whether u like it. I like her physique but with this picture on her fb she says we all start somewhere and aspire to improve...it makes it seem like it was loads of hard work and u can achieve this in the end...can women really improve to these levels without steroids? Does anyone have any pics of natural female bodybuilders? I'm a fan of Andrea brazier but even she looks ripped.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

I have no basis for this other than opinion but I'd be inclined to say she was natty.. or at most a very light user. She has none of the 'standard' appearances of using (over developed delts for example) and her face shape has only changed in so much as she's leaner on the right.

photo quality and experience goes a long way too it seems.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

People say Jamie Eason is natural.

Regarding your question on whether above condition can be achieved natty or not by a woman, i don't qualify.


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

IMO no. Carly is one of the top competitors in the UK, personally would say she will be using something. Most are.

Whatever she is using doesn't take away from her look though.


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

This may rattle some cages.. but I think muscular women in general look about as natural as a tin of Dulux. The figure model (or whatever it's called) looks nice for the most part IMO. Having delts bigger than most men.. not so much!

There's a pretty substantial time difference between the pics, but I've no idea if that could be attained naturally.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

andyboro said:


> I have no basis for this other than opinion but I'd be inclined to say she was natty.. or at most a very light user. She has none of the 'standard' appearances of using (over developed delts for example) and her face shape has only changed in so much as she's leaner on the right.
> 
> photo quality and experience goes a long way too it seems.


 I agree ....what does light user mean ....in terms of dosage or in terms of type of gear used?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> People say Jamie Eason is natural.
> 
> Regarding your question on whether above condition can be achieved natty or not by a woman, i don't qualify.


 Thanks il have a look


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

could be natural but they look like implants to me. the surgeon did a good job tho!


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Skye666 said:


> I agree ....what does light user mean ....in terms of dosage or in terms of type of gear used?


 Light to me = anavar/winny only. Not up on dosages for women. I had my eyes opened to what is actually used recently and it really surprised me, pretty scary in some cases.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> People say Jamie Eason is natural.
> 
> Regarding your question on whether above condition can be achieved natty or not by a woman, i don't qualify.


 It's natural but too bikini for me no muscle


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

andyboro said:


> I have no basis for this other than opinion but I'd be inclined to say she was natty.. or at most a very light user. She has none of the 'standard' appearances of using (over developed delts for example) and her face shape has only changed in so much as she's leaner on the right.
> 
> photo quality and experience goes a long way too it seems.


 you for real lol?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

andyboro said:


> Light to me = anavar/winny only. Not up on dosages for women. I had my eyes opened to what is actually used recently and it really surprised me, pretty scary in some cases.


 Ok. It's very confusing and most women don't discuss it ..I know about anavar but I didn't think that added muscle I thought it leaned out more...no idea bout winny.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Carly is a pro physique competitor.

Lets put some perspective on this. 99% of bikini pro's are using something, so goes without saying a physique competitor will 100% be using.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Dark sim said:


> you for real lol?


 I'm assuming you don't agree? lol

2nd pic is closer to the camera, clearly leaner and posing is better.. She's obviously bigger too but more than she could do with a small amount of assistance?


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

andyboro said:


> I'm assuming you don't agree? lol


 See my post above


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## Colin (Sep 28, 2015)

andyboro said:


> I have no basis for this other than opinion but I'd be inclined to say she was natty.. or at most a very light user. She has none of the 'standard' appearances of using (over developed delts for example) and her face shape has only changed in so much as she's leaner on the right.
> 
> photo quality and experience goes a long way too it seems.


 She most definitely has all the hallmarks of a user.

Shes a Pro and is without question using.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

to be fair, you guys have far more experience of this than me so I'd not argue lol


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> It's natural but too bikini for me no muscle
> 
> View attachment 129118


 You quoted the most erotic photo you could find


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

andyboro said:


> to be fair, you guys have far more experience of this than me so I'd not argue lol


 Her face has changed dramatically in the last year. So has her physique. Nonetheless very impressive.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> It's natural but too bikini for me no muscle
> 
> View attachment 129118


 there are some much better photos of her than that.


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

andyboro said:


> Light to me = anavar/winny only. Not up on dosages for women. I had my eyes opened to what is actually used recently and it really surprised me, pretty scary in some cases.


 Care to elaborate?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

andyboro said:


> I'm assuming you don't agree? lol
> 
> 2nd pic is closer to the camera, clearly leaner and posing is better.. She's obviously bigger too but more than she could do with a small amount of assistance?


 mate, its a woman, she is leaner and bigger than 90% of the guys on here.

enough said.


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> mate, its a woman, she is leaner and bigger than 90% of the guys on here.
> 
> enough said.


 fair point.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

The picture on the left? Seems natural.

The picture on the right? Blatant signs of Androgen use.


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## Omen669 (Jun 11, 2015)

She's using for sure. Virilization hasn't properly set in yet, but we all react differently to PED's. Some women can take small amounts and get male looking characteristics. Others can take loads and still look fully feminine

What she's taken, only her and her coach will know.


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

Of course she uses.


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## doyle1987 (Jan 5, 2014)

As she regularly trains at same place so last few years have seen her change. Impressive physique but her voice and face have got more masculine so without doubt she using.


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Yes said:


> Of course she uses.


 This ^^^

Can't believe it's even in question. Everybody that earns a living off it will use something. Doesn't detract from the hard work and dedication in the slightest though, we all know that.

Just a shame when such attractive women take it too far and end up looking like Desperate Dan.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

She's about as natural as Mike O'Hearn.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> You quoted the most erotic photo you could find
> 
> View attachment 129119


 Lol I didn't I had 4 but I don't know how u put multiple up it didn't work...she looks better there


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> mate, its a woman, she is leaner and bigger than 90% of the guys on here.
> 
> enough said.


 Harsh bonzo


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

doyle1987 said:


> As she regularly trains at same place so last few years have seen her change. Impressive physique but her voice and face have got more masculine so without doubt she using.


 Crayford?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

richardrahl said:


> This ^^^
> 
> Can't believe it's even in question. Everybody that earns a living off it will use something. Doesn't detract from the hard work and dedication in the slightest though, we all know that.
> 
> Just a shame when such attractive women take it too far and end up looking like Desperate Dan.


 It's always going to be in question because it's a well kept secret for women ...I look at that picture I posted and I honestly don't think she looks over cooked at all and I'm reading ' it takes time, it can be achieved' etc...so as a female interested in understanding how to develop myself it's questionable to me.


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## TREACLE (Jun 6, 2016)

She is 100% using steroids and probably a lot of other PEDs.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

MissMartinez said:


> Not natty in the second pic


 On her fb she says it's been 8 yrs takes time and dedication


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Skye666 said:


> On her fb she says it's been 8 yrs takes time and dedication


 It may well have taken 8 years but as others have said, her face and physique have changed a lot in the last year so she may only have been using the last couple of years.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Chelsea said:


> It may well have taken 8 years but as others have said, her face and physique have changed a lot in the last year so she may only have been using the last couple of years.


 So how do women stay on stuff over long periods isn't it damaging? I genuinely want to know and it's difficult getting answers...Iv met women who have done anavar but it's a period of time then it stops and tbh they didn't look massive just very lean but if it's a steroid it must still have some sides surely.


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## doyle1987 (Jan 5, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Crayford?


 Yep :thumb


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> So how do women stay on stuff over long periods isn't it damaging? I genuinely want to know and it's difficult getting answers...Iv met women who have done anavar but it's a period of time then it stops and tbh they didn't look massive just very lean but if it's a steroid it must still have some sides surely.


 Watch Louis Theroux's documentary on Bodybuilding, there's a woman on there with a clit like a dick. No joke.


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Skye666 said:


> It's always going to be in question because it's a well kept secret for women ...I look at that picture I posted and I honestly don't think she looks over cooked at all and I'm reading ' it takes time, it can be achieved' etc...so as a female interested in understanding how to develop myself it's questionable to me.


 It still takes time with 'assistance'.

It may be the lighting etc, but the first thing that jumped out at me was the facial changes.

Forgive my ignorance, I don't really read into many journals etc on here, but what are your goals? In the pic you posted the other day, you looked fantastic. So I was wondering what the plan was going forward.


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## Chelsea (Sep 19, 2009)

Skye666 said:


> So how do women stay on stuff over long periods isn't it damaging? I genuinely want to know and it's difficult getting answers...Iv met women who have done anavar but it's a period of time then it stops and tbh they didn't look massive just very lean but if it's a steroid it must still have some sides surely.


 Generally women choose mainly Anabolics to avoid any or as little as possible of Androgen use. Im sure the most feminine ones will cycle it properly with time off. Usual drugs used are low dose Anavar, Deca, Primo, maybe some Winstrol too.

The sides are far more damaging for a woman and are irreversible too so its a whole different ball game.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

doyle1987 said:


> Yep :thumb


 Iv trained there a few times.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

DappaDonDave said:


> Watch Louis Theroux's documentary on Bodybuilding, there's a woman on there with a clit like a dick. No joke.


 I don't mind that...but I don't want my face and voice cracking anymore than it is!!!


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Chelsea said:


> Generally women choose mainly Anabolics to avoid any or as little as possible of Androgen use. Im sure the most feminine ones will cycle it properly with time off. Usual drugs used are low dose Anavar, Deca, Primo, maybe some Winstrol too.
> 
> The sides are far more damaging for a woman and are irreversible too so its a whole different ball game.


 Thank you :thumb


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> I don't mind that...but I don't want my face and voice cracking anymore than it is!!!


 Stick with var then 5-20mg


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## DappaDonDave (Dec 2, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> I don't mind that...but I don't want my face and voice cracking anymore than it is!!!


 Looked like a bloke as well...so probs best not using the doseage he/she did


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Lol I didn't I had 4 but I don't know how u put multiple up it didn't work...she looks better there


 And, you don't look far from the last posted picture. Do you aim at competing?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DappaDonDave said:


> Watch Louis Theroux's documentary on Bodybuilding, there's a woman on there with a clit like a dick. No joke.


 Denise Massino , awesome.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> And, you don't look far from the last posted picture. Do you aim at competing?


 I have competed before but I'd be interested to see how I can make improvements, I really struggle with legs mainly...trained and dieted 4 times each time tried something different but I seem to only reach an ok level ..( in terms of shape) and I can't get passed that...naturally I have had a six pack but it wasn't hugely defined and legs wise quads don't play at all really.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Skye666 said:


> On her fb she says it's been 8 yrs takes time and dedication


 As @banzi has said in a few threads, you know if you have what it takes after about 4-6 years. I'd say that I've barely gained anything since I was 22-24.

I can gain fat with a small % of muscle but as soon as I cut the fat away, the muscle goes with it. Without AAS my hormone levels won't allow me anymore muscle at a given fat % than I have already been to. With this in mind, when people say, they've gotta be natty, they've been training 15+ years I simply laugh. It really doesn't make any difference unless they have unusually high hormone levels to sustain this level of muscle. Why does anyone who uses AAS lose muscle when they come off AAS? Because the lower hormone levels will not sustain it. Those who say they don't lose it are deluding themselves by thinking that coming off for 8 weeks after using 1g+ and claiming they're at natty levels and holding it before going back on. It takes quite a while for the half lives to work out of the body.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not anti AAS but I can see your concerns about the side effects of using the wrong drugs. I think the key is to keep it real(low dose and work up slowly)and watch out for any side effects if it's the path you wish to take. Also be realistic about your goals unless you wish to push the boundaries


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> As @banzi has said in a few threads, you know if you have what it takes after about 4-6 years. I'd say that I've barely gained anything since I was 22-24.
> 
> I can gain fat with a small % of muscle but as soon as I cut the fat away, the muscle goes with it. Without AAS my hormone levels won't allow me anymore muscle at a given fat % than I have already been to. With this in mind, when people say, they've gotta be natty, they've been training 15+ years I simply laugh. It really doesn't make any difference unless they have unusually high hormone levels to sustain this level of muscle. Why does anyone who uses AAS lose muscle when they come off AAS? Because the lower hormone levels will not sustain it. Those who say they don't lose it are deluding themselves by thinking that coming off for 8 weeks after using 1g+ and claiming they're at natty levels and holding it before going back on. It takes quite a while for the half lives to work out of the body.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I'm not anti AAS but I can see your concerns about the side effects of using the wrong drugs. I think the key is to keep it real(low dose and work up slowly)and watch out for any side effects if it's the path you wish to take. Also be realistic about your goals unless you wish to push the boundaries


 If you train assisted for 10 years and then you come off, after 1 year you will be at the level you were if you had trained unassisted for 10 years.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> If you train assisted for 10 years and then you come off after 1 year you will be at the level you were if you had trained unassisted for 10 years.


 Thank you. Although saying that, it would only be if they have recovered their 'normal' hormone production?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Thank you. Although saying that, it would only be if they have recovered their 'normal' hormone production?


 and thats with continuing training, if you stopped lifting you would look like you never lifted at all.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> and thats with continuing training, if you stopped lifting you would look like you never lifted at all.


 very few could continue lifting while their gains are disappearing surely. Your mind would be destroyed.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> If you train assisted for 10 years and then you come off, after 1 year you will be at the level you were if you had trained unassisted for 10 years.


 I managed this after 8 weeks diet ...by 3 weeks later my abs came in abit more ( but they look like not much volume ) but everything else stayed the same ..so this is prob the best I'd get naturally do u reckon? If I was assisted it would improve legs maybe ?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> I managed this after 8 weeks diet ...by 3 weeks later my abs came in abit more ( but they look like not much volume ) but everything else stayed the same ..so this is prob the best I'd get naturally do u reckon? If I was assisted it would improve legs maybe ?
> 
> View attachment 129132
> 
> ...


 Assisted pretty much improves everything, condition is attainable natural.

Your body fat is pretty much gone on the abs, the dry look that you would get with some hormones is the finishing touch.

You do look fantastic by the way...for any age.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

banzi said:


> If you train assisted for 10 years and then you come off, after 1 year you will be at the level you were if you had trained unassisted for 10 years.


 You base this on experience?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Starz said:


> You base this on experience?


 yep personal and witnessed.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

banzi said:


> yep personal and witnessed.


 You TRT/B&C then? have you ever came off, went back training natural and lost a considerable amount of muscle?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> Assisted pretty much improves everything, condition is attainable natural.
> 
> Your body fat is pretty much gone on the abs, the dry look that you would get with some hormones is the finishing touch.
> 
> You do look fantastic by the way...for any age.


 The finishing touch is what I need!!!

Thank you I appreciate.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Starz said:


> You TRT/B&C then? have you ever came off, went back training natural and lost a considerable amount of muscle?


 You won't go back to training, you continue training.

Remove AAS from your regime and you'll see how much is really down to your own doing, almost garantee that you'll lose muscle, strength and enthusiasm and the only gains will be fat unless you adjust diet in which case you'll likely lose even faster.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Starz said:


> You TRT/B&C then? have you ever came off, went back training natural and lost a considerable amount of muscle?


 competed up until 96 stopped and came off everything, still trained, in a year I went from 14st at 6/7% to 14st at 15/16 %

Same weight but body composition totally different.

If you want to see how quick it goes look at this

Daz Ball










this was Daz Ball after he tore his biceps, not sure of the timescales but its quite a drop


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> You won't go back to training, you continue training.
> 
> Remove AAS from your regime and you'll see how much is really down to your own doing, *almost garantee that you'll lose muscle, strength and enthusiasm and the only gains will be fat unless you adjust diet in which case you'll likely lose even faster. *


 x2


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> The finishing touch is what I need!!!
> 
> Thank you I appreciate.


 any time chuck


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Woman in first post is a roid head. No doubt. Looks more manly than my dad.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> It's not to argue whether women should or shouldn't have muscle or whether u like it. I like her physique but with this picture on her fb she says we all start somewhere and aspire to improve...it makes it seem like it was loads of hard work and u can achieve this in the end...can women really improve to these levels without steroids? Does anyone have any pics of natural female bodybuilders? I'm a fan of Andrea brazier but even she looks ripped.
> 
> View attachment 129117


 No deffo out of a bottle. ....

I bet the collar n cuffs don't match


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

banzi said:


> competed up until 96 stopped and came off everything, still trained, in a year I went from 14st at 6/7% to 14st at 15/16 %
> 
> Same weight but body composition totally different.
> 
> ...


 That's obviously a significant drop, always going to lose A LOT given them circumstances, that's some impressive stats you achieved. what was they natty? did you get big & strong natural or was you light, but lean? I wouldn't be surprised if Daz, hopped back on and gained a lot back.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

sen said:


> Woman in first post is a roid head. No doubt. Looks more manly than my dad.


 U think that looks manly?? Wow ...facially not great but body wise I don't think that pic is extreme....I guess it's a personal opinion for guys I get that some just don't like visible muscle ...and u must be one of them ..


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Skye666 said:


> U think that looks manly?? Wow ...facially not great but body wise I don't think that pic is extreme....I guess it's a personal opinion for guys I get that some just don't like visible muscle ...and u must be one of them ..[IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_sad.png&key=5f2404ff95045e5a1dfc47075a356f283bf702259d3b886bee3c5c64156725f1[/IMG]


 She will only look like that whilst in that condition and very unlikely year round. It's a bit like the men, they won't look anything like stage condition year round.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Starz said:


> That's obviously a significant drop, always going to lose A LOT given them circumstances, that's some impressive stats you achieved. what was they natty? did you get big & strong natural or was you light, but lean? I wouldn't be surprised if Daz, hopped back on and gained a lot back.


 I was always light and lean, took me 8 years to gain about 60lb of muscle, I was 140lb when I started up until a weight of 200lb onstage

20 years later after coming back to training Im still around 200lb onstage


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> *U think that looks manly??* Wow ...facially not great but body wise I don't think that pic is extreme....I guess it's a personal opinion for guys I get that some just don't like visible muscle ...and u must be one of them ..


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> U think that looks manly?? Wow ...facially not great but body wise I don't think that pic is extreme....I guess it's a personal opinion for guys I get that some just don't like visible muscle ...and u must be one of them ..


 No I mean face wise. Muscles on women don't look manly I don't think unless they're huge.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

banzi said:


> I was always light and lean, took me 8 years to gain about 60lb of muscle, I was 140lb when I started up until a weight of 200lb onstage
> 
> 20 years later after coming back to training Im still around 200lb onstage


 was you 140lbs before you used gear? what was your stats just before your first run?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Starz said:


> was you 140lbs before you used gear? what was your stats just before your first run?


 I was about 12st 7lb when i first used, I took 16mgs a day of Winstrol tabs for 10 weeks and put about a stone on, probably kept 2/3 lb of it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

and one the other way


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## weaver (Dec 22, 2015)

Natty Steve'o said:


> It's not to argue whether women should or shouldn't have muscle or whether u like it. I like her physique but with this picture on her fb she says we all start somewhere and aspire to improve...it makes it seem like it was loads of hard work and u can achieve this in the end...can women really improve to these levels without steroids? Does anyone have any pics of natural female bodybuilders? I'm a fan of Andrea brazier but even she looks ripped.


 Your seriously wondering if shes taking steroids? Her facial characteristics have started to change and not even guys cant get this trapz without steroids. Rule of thumb to spot users: If you see a guy for whom everyone else around thinks "Ohh hes got huge muscles" or "Thats an impresive body", then hes most likely on steroids. If you think the same for a woman shes definitely on steroids.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

weaver said:


> Your seriously wondering if shes taking steroids? Her facial characteristics have started to change and* not even guys cant get this trapz without steroids.* Rule of thumb to spot users: If you see a guy for whom everyone else around thinks "Ohh hes got huge muscles" or "Thats an impresive body", then hes most likely on steroids. If you think the same for a woman shes definitely on steroids.


 Utter bolix


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

banzi said:


> I was about 12st 7lb when i first used, I took 16mgs a day of Winstrol tabs for 10 weeks and put about a stone on, probably kept 2/3 lb of it.


 Surprising for Winnie that, do you buy into the whole ''Building a base'' before using anything?


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

banzi said:


> and one the other way


 This bit made me laugh. I shouldn't laugh as it's quite sad really but I did.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Starz said:


> Surprising for Winnie that, do you buy into the whole ''Building a base'' before using anything?


 Some people can't 'build a base' no matter how hard they train. Poor genetics.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Starz said:


> Surprising for Winnie that, do you buy into the whole ''Building a base'' before using anything?


 I think you should train and learn to lift correctly and feel the muscles working and gain an understanding of diet and make sure you have the drive and determination to do it before you take anything.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

BLUE(UK) said:


> She will only look like that whilst in that condition and very unlikely year round. It's a bit like the men, they won't look anything like stage condition year round.


 But the voice and facial changes stay?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> and one the other way


 Your putting me off the assisted route nicely.....stop it lol


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

weaver said:


> Your seriously wondering if shes taking steroids? Her facial characteristics have started to change and not even guys cant get this trapz without steroids. Rule of thumb to spot users: If you see a guy for whom everyone else around thinks "Ohh hes got huge muscles" or "Thats an impresive body", then hes most likely on steroids. If you think the same for a woman shes definitely on steroids.


 Do,u mean the first picture I posted? I didn't think her traps were that big????


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Your putting me off the assisted route nicely.....stop it lol


 You can do it sensibly and not suffer any long term effects.

Short term can have some really nice benefits.


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## 31205 (Jan 16, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> Your putting me off the assisted route nicely.....stop it lol


 Soon as you need to start shaving the beard (upstairs beard not downstairs) you know you've gone too far. That's andys advice.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Skye666 said:


> But the voice and facial changes stay?


 I've honestly no idea although a lot of the facial features are from dieting although if you use some AAS types you can end up with the beard and manly features so ensure you get the right advice on what to use and how much for the goals you have. I'm guessing you won't be using the same things as those in Banzi's reply have done.


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## weaver (Dec 22, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> Do,u mean the first picture I posted? I didn't think her traps were that big????


 The second :whistling:


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> But the voice and facial changes stay?


 depends how far you take it, I know some competitors from back in the day are pretty much back to normal after years of use.

here is Sarah Dunlap, an American competitor before and today


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## Grunz (Apr 11, 2016)

I remember seeing a video of a women talking about her gear use, said she most regretted taking winny, that's what changed her voice.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

sen said:


> Soon as you need to start shaving the beard (upstairs beard not downstairs) you know you've gone too far. That's andys advice.


 Upstairs and downstairs beards ....cute!


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

BLUE(UK) said:


> I've honestly no idea although a lot of the facial features are from dieting although if you use some AAS types you can end up with the beard and manly features so ensure you get the right advice on what to use and how much for the goals you have. I'm guessing you won't be using the same things as those in Banzi's reply have done.


 No I doubt it jeez I wouldn't even know where to start or who's door to knock on


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

weaver said:


> The second :whistling:


 Wind up...she had even less. Muscle!


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Skye666 said:


> No I doubt it jeez I wouldn't even know where to start or who's door to knock on


 Haha @ knocking on doors


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

MissMartinez said:


> 10mg var for 12 weeks would do u no facially noticeable harm! Doubt winny would either but it's slightly harsher.


 Oh god I can't do harsh...coffee and wine get me in a tizz and I have a dodgy ticker lol....

have u done anavar? If so any sides? Or pm me incase u know who jumps on it!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Oh god I can't do harsh...coffee and wine get me in a tizz and *I have a dodgy ticker lol....*
> 
> have u done anavar? If so any sides? Or pm me incase u know who jumps on it!


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## Thunderstruck (Sep 20, 2010)

Cant be arse to read all 4 pages but ive followed Carly for quite a while now as used to love her look. Since she went pro a little while ago she has packed on a lot of size in a very short space of time, imo shes using whitout a doubt. No a fan of her size now but f**k it shes done superb and is still someone to look up to for her drive and motivation.


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## irwellfalls (Aug 8, 2013)

Skye666 said:


> Oh god I can't do harsh...coffee and wine get me in a tizz and I have a dodgy ticker lol....
> 
> have u done anavar? If so any sides? Or pm me incase u know who jumps on it!


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> U think that looks manly?? Wow ...facially not great but body wise I don't think that pic is extreme....I guess it's a personal opinion for guys I get that some just don't like visible muscle ...and u must be one of them ..


 She looks fit as f**k, if you want to look more muscular then go for it IMO. You look great in that photo BTW, and I'm not one to usually comment.

Best beginner cycle for a woman would either be 5mg Oxandrolone every day or inject 10mg Nandrolone Phenylpropionate every other day for 8 weeks of either. It's a low dose of both to be able to gauge how your body responds and you can either drop it or adjust accordingly. You could use Nandrolone with the decanoate ester but because it is a long acting drug if it was not agreeing with you there wold be a good wait of a few weeks for it to clear your system as opposed to a few days with the phenylpropionate. I would not recommend it as stated by someone earlier in this thread.


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

irwellfalls said:


>


 Watched this the other day. Gracie Vanasse is a fu**ing machine..........


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## CodexZor (Jun 20, 2016)

Natural or not hehe, I hope its for the lulz.

If she could achieve it naturally than half of the guys would be bigger than big ramy xD


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> I have competed before but I'd be interested to see how I can make improvements, I really struggle with legs mainly...trained and dieted 4 times each time tried something different but I seem to only reach an ok level ..( in terms of shape) and I can't get passed that...naturally I have had a six pack but it wasn't hugely defined and legs wise quads don't play at all really.


 If it's only about making improvements and not competing , i don't think you really need to go through the AAS route after looking at your pictures. You look great anyway!


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> View attachment 129148


 Not that bad cheeky!!!


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

irwellfalls said:


>


 This was great ..thanks!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Not that bad cheeky!!!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Bignath4607 said:


> This is more Skye :whistling:
> 
> View attachment 129177


 shes really a nice person mate.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Bignath4607 said:


> Did I say she wasn't just a bit cold


 Have you taken her temperature? :lol:


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


>


 No only my balls are golden


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> shes really a nice person mate.


 I'm not that nice!!!


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Bignath4607 said:


> Did I say she wasn't just a bit cold


 Tbf on here I'm actually less cold than reality


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Have you taken her temperature? :lol:


 I'm off the scale,


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Bignath4607 said:


> No I believe she likes the chocolate coloured thermometer [IMG alt="" data-emoticon=""]https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://1.1.1.5/bmi/www.uk-muscle.co.uk/uploads/emoticons/default_wink.png&key=6fdef74361d8af8c54d6a26e30a7b17033f6e0ba73b641a8297c72f4fca75b04[/IMG]


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Bignath4607 said:


> No I believe she likes the chocolate coloured thermometer


 Lol...no it's rumour


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> I'm not that nice!!!


 you cant kid a kidder.


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## ironman1985bcn (Mar 3, 2010)

99% of amateur competitors are on something....


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Things have dramatically changed in 20 years then :huh:


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Things have dramatically changed in 20 years then :huh:


 Yes...there's HERBALIFE


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Things have dramatically changed in 20 years then :huh:


 no they havent....


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

banzi said:


> no they havent....


 Didn't think so


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

irwellfalls said:


>


 does anyone know if those two got it together after the interview?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> does anyone know if those two got it together after the interview?


 Tut bonzo....but actually I quite liked the blonde apart from the voice I didn't mnd the overall look


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> Tut bonzo....but actually I quite liked the blonde apart from the voice I didn't mnd the overall look


 shes nice, didnt mind the voice TBH, may have to leave the light on as a reminder though, dont want to hear a gruff "go on then" mid session.


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

@Skye666 I think you should leave peds alone.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> shes nice, didnt mind the voice TBH, may have to leave the light on as a reminder though, dont want to hear a gruff "go on then" mid session.


 Arghhhhh. Shut up!!!!!


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Heavyassweights said:


> @Skye666 I think you should leave peds alone.


 U already think my penis is big enough right?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> U already think my penis is big enough right?


 its penisoris.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Skye666 said:


> U already think my penis is big enough right?


 Are you sure he didn't say that your pension is big enough?


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

@banzi And @BLUE(UK) ...get out of my thread.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> @banzi And @BLUE(UK) ...get out of my head.


 fixed


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> fixed


 OutOut


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

100% used steroids .


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## Quackerz (Dec 19, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> Tut bonzo....but actually I quite liked the blonde apart from the voice I didn't mnd the overall look


 Here is a good pic of her.....


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

banzi said:


> shes nice, didnt mind the voice TBH, may have to leave the light on as a reminder though, dont want to hear a gruff "go on then" mid session.


 the one on the left is good looking the one on the right has a nice personality


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Quackerz said:


> Here is a good pic of her.....
> 
> View attachment 129220


 Im just out of shot smoking a cigarette.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

banzi said:


> Im just out of shot smoking a cigarette.


 Her legs are brown her body white...off putting don't like those kind of imbalances


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## arcticfox (Jan 11, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> I don't mind that...but I don't want my face and voice cracking anymore than it is!!!


 Don't say that your gonna have a LOT off lads "Some lady's i'm sure" offering to see it


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Everyone is on peds except me


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> It's not to argue whether women should or shouldn't have muscle or whether u like it. I like her physique but with this picture on her fb she says we all start somewhere and aspire to improve...it makes it seem like it was loads of hard work and u can achieve this in the end...can women really improve to these levels without steroids? Does anyone have any pics of natural female bodybuilders? I'm a fan of Andrea brazier but even she looks ripped.
> 
> View attachment 129117


 looks like bruce forsyth to me , id say yes


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

arcticfox said:


> Don't say that your gonna have a LOT off lads "Some lady's i'm sure" offering to see it


 I doubt it...lady's I don't mind sharing though :lol:


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

RUDESTEW said:


> looks like bruce forsyth to me , id say yes


 Lol...yes her chin does seem to have lengthened.


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## arcticfox (Jan 11, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> I doubt it...lady's I don't mind sharing though :lol:


 Well i'm always qualified to have a look if any worries


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## thecoms (Nov 1, 2010)

That chin has changed, we need to inspect the clitoris to be sure ?


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