# Bicep 21's.......?



## fxleisure (Apr 15, 2008)

I know Im probably going to disturb the hornets nest here but........

Ive lost count of the amount of young, inexperienced and undeveloped lads I have seen performing this exercise as the main part of their bicep workout, set after set, rep after rep....!

IMO this serves a great purpose in the ****nal of techniques of an experienced trainer with well developed biceps.

However, surely for a 'newbie', partial movements would serve very little purpose as opposed to the full ROM of a barbell curl?

I have noticed it seems to be the same trend of people doing this e.g. guy who has been training 3 months, comes in with guy who has never trained before and says "this is how you get massive arms", this then creates a snowball effect and so on and so on!

Anyone agree/ disagree?


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

I was told that exact thing when I started training.

However my staple exercises were always barbell curls, preacher curls, dumbell curls etc.

I used 21's admittedly, but always at the end to freally finish off the biceps


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## fxleisure (Apr 15, 2008)

I know there is a full ROM at the end of a set of 21's, but surely time would be better spent with a full ROM from the outset?


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

I agree, hence why I always built my bicepm routines around heavy barbell curls etc


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## fxleisure (Apr 15, 2008)

pastanchicken said:


> I agree, hence why I always built my bicepm routines around heavy barbell curls etc


Sorry mate, wasn't meaning you, was reffering to those that have just stepped foot in a gym and those that have made very little if not any progress.

Was watching two lads last night, the irony of the situation was, the lad who was being told to do 21's was in better shape than the lad telling him to do them :cool2:


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

Sorry mate, hope I didn't come across as funny then!


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## johnnyreid (May 4, 2009)

i agree with what your saying, it should only be used at the end of a session as a FST-7 style of exercise to fill your arms with lactic acid. Personally i find the most effective bicep exercise is single arm dumbell concentration curls.....


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

fxleisure said:


> I know there is a full ROM at the end of a set of 21's, but surely time would be better spent with a full ROM from the outset?


I have no opinion either way tbh, but I want to play devils advocate here and push you a little.

What is it specifically about a full ROM that you are sure is more beneficial?

Given that a muscle experiences stress, and it is a mechanical fact that above a certain point in a barbell curl, stress comes off the biceps, and instead is experience down the bones of the forearms (lets call this going over the top) and stress is also directed away from the biceps muscle at the bottom of the range when the stress is more in tension on the bones of the complete arm from hand to shoulder socket, surely, partial reps make more sense given the mechanical facts? IE in terms of stress experience on the target muscle, per distance/effort?

Why would there be any difference in the aims of a begginer versus a more experienced trainer, when all we are aiming to do is experience stress in the target muscle, and [hopefully] initiate a growth response - be it on a 13 inch arm, or a 20...

I love being devils advocate :devil2: :lol:


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

RS2007 said:


> I have no opinion either way tbh, but I want to play devils advocate here and push you a little.
> 
> What is it specifically about a full ROM that you are sure is more beneficial?
> 
> ...


lol :smartass:


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## Miller (Jan 19, 2009)

I have never used them because of what Iv read but the other week I had a terrible bicep workout so decided to do 2 sets, starting with full rom and the pump was fantastic

I know the pump really shows nothing but I can understand why kids think it blows their biceps up...becuase it does...temporarily


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

I will play supid's advocate and please list the total number of reps involved in 21's..?


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

I too have never done bicep 21's ........mainly due to the fact l have NO idea what the hell they are !!!

Enlighten me please someone.......


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## pastanchicken (Sep 29, 2008)

3 lots of 7 reps performed with a bar, completed one after the other.

1) 7 x reps lower part of the curl

2) 7 x reps top part of the curl

3) 7 x complete reps


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## Miller (Jan 19, 2009)

gemilky69 said:


> I too have never done bicep 21's ........mainly due to the fact l have NO idea what the hell they are !!!
> 
> Enlighten me please someone.......


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

[

*Why would there be any difference in the aims of a begginer versus a* *more experienced trainer*, when all we are aiming to do is experience stress in the target muscle, and [hopefully] initiate a growth response - be it on a 13 inch arm, or a 20...

I love being devils advocate :devil2: :lol:


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## cellaratt (Jul 16, 2008)

so...it's 2 warmups with a working set...


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

Miller said:


>


You do 7 reps from the bottom to middle

then 7 from the middle to the top or from the top to the middle

and then another 7 full reps=21 reps


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## Miller (Jan 19, 2009)

here's me playing devils advocate myself...

do people think they would be a more effective exercise for mass gains with lower reps/heavier weight? ie 12's instead of 21's?


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## Guru Josh (Apr 10, 2009)

I too have witnessed the so called latest trend of all these beginners using 21's at the gym as there primary bicep building excercise. Although i have been known to use them myself once in every blue moon at the end of my workout it is mainly because on the day i have thought, bugger it i will do something diffrent to finish off my bicep routine.

But to be honest there are now that many inexperianced beginners out there ( especially at my gym ) doing all of the wrong excercises and with techniques that i didint even know existed or that the body was even capable of performing lol. I have to just walk away and look in the other direction.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

stavmangr said:


> Because you need to have muscles first before "shape" them,otherwise 21s,crossovers,leaning one hand side laterals etc to name a few will give you nothing only curses from the advanced lads at the gym because you occupied the machines and make them wait


PMSL!!! at first I thought you were serious :lol:


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## Dagman72 (Apr 2, 2009)

gemilky69 said:


> I too have never done bicep 21's ........mainly due to the fact l have NO idea what the hell they are !!!
> 
> Enlighten me please someone.......


The reason why it is called 21s, because you get 21 inch arms, well that is what you tell the newbies


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## Guy.B (Oct 11, 2008)

ive never seen these done at my school which is suprising because all that goes on in the gym at my school is a few heavy curls everytime they think someone is watching...


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## fxleisure (Apr 15, 2008)

RS2007 said:


> I have no opinion either way tbh, but I want to play devils advocate here and push you a little.
> 
> What is it specifically about a full ROM that you are sure is more beneficial?
> 
> ...


Mate you got me there, carbs are way to fecking low to even think of a reply, infact, feck it, can someone delete my thread :lol:


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## fxleisure (Apr 15, 2008)

On another note, would I be right in saying that it was Vince Gironda that invented 21's initially ONLY for the delts (7 front raises, 7 lateral and 7 bent over lateral) as a 3 headed muscle group, only to be later modified by someone else as a bicep exercise?

Or am I disturbing that hornets nest again lol?


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## 2fat2old (Feb 7, 2009)

Good old 21's not done them for years when i was 18 we used to finish off our arm workout with these then go stright in the pub hahaha, you would struggle to lift your pint without your arm shakin all over, think i might start to use them again.


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

fxleisure said:


> On another note, would I be right in saying that it was Vince Gironda that invented 21's initially ONLY for the delts (7 front raises, 7 lateral and 7 bent over lateral) as a 3 headed muscle group, only to be later modified by someone else as a bicep exercise?
> 
> Or am I disturbing that hornets nest again lol?


Not sure how they came about but why 21 in the first place:lol:

Maybe somebody did 15's then some guy who didnt want to be out pistolled decided 21 will make them bigger?????

I never done them since 92,93 maybe and dont intend putting them back into my training.

But if people feel the need to do them and are happy with what they have achieved for them then carry on i say.


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## fxleisure (Apr 15, 2008)

pea head said:


> Not sure how they came about but why 21 in the first place:lol:
> 
> Maybe somebody did 15's then some guy who didnt want to be out pistolled decided 21 will make them bigger?????
> 
> ...


Mate, do you think Drogba does 21's, his arms looked pretty pumped the other night when he was crying into the tv camera :whistling:


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## pea head (May 28, 2008)

fxleisure said:


> Mate, do you think Drogba does 21's, his arms looked pretty pumped the other night when he was crying into the tv camera :whistling:


Oh was was more than pumped mate,especially when he drew his 13"guns at the ref in the tunnel...go on diddy,bang him good. :cursing:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

21's I have seen even when I was very young.

I think everything you do will have an impact on something.

If you did machine curls all the time, then 21's are fine.

If you did 21's all the time, then machine curls are fine.

It is hitting diffrent angles, diffrent rep ranges to target diffrent muscle types, diffrent intensity's, diffrent loading, etc.

I think everything fits where it does.

I dont believe 21's offer any more benefits than any other bicep exercise.

But generally speaking a pre-stretched muscle will offer your more range.

Try doing incline curls, the bicep is already pre-stretched, these are one of the only things that really hit my biceps.


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## hilly (Jan 19, 2008)

i would use 21's more for a pump exercise similar to fst-7 to stretch the muscle fascia etc after i had done mass builders etc.


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## skud (May 9, 2009)

i admit it... you all got me. i still use them. but simply at the end of a bicep W/O for a good pump. the old HIT method after a big set.


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## bmoore (Jan 19, 2009)

Yeas I've seen loads of the younger lot doing 21's at my gym. I used to do them when I was probably the same age but the people I see doing them are going to end up getting hurt, they are throwing their hips out to do the 1st 7 reps where the weight is to heavy and for the rest of the exercise it looks like a new type of dance routine!


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## phizzlek (Mar 1, 2009)

it's basically just 2 sets of 7 reps of full bicep curls isnt it :S


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