# 1st TIME CYCLE



## kingmins (Sep 7, 2004)

Is it possible to make this a 'sticky' guys?

Hi guys, i thought i would post this as many newbie's have difficulty with their first cycle. I myself have not cycled for a long time (6-7 years ago - a back injury messed me up for a couple of years) so basically will be doing the same thing as my first cycle again. This is the cycle i will follow as my first cycle (okay about 7 years ago mine cycle was quite different but new information has come to hand recently).

Anyway this is from a friend of mine who wrote this and everything seems very good. It has been posted elsewhere and i thinks its a very valuable piece of information.

Creating a cycle for the newbie

First it is important to know all the most common steroids before doing anything else

testosterone (cypionate or enanthate) - no other test is good for a newbie, sust is hard to maintain blood levels and short acting ester tests will require too many injections

Deca durabolin - good drug for bulking at moderate dosages, considered somewhat stronger than eq

Equipose - good drug for both bulking and cutting, and known to make you vascular unlike any other drug, also known to make you eat like crazy

dianabol - a great kickstarter to any bulking cycle

winstrol depot - good to cut up and known to make you real hard

anavar - another good drug to harden you up and most likely the safest steroid out there

primobolan depot - this is a good drug for hardening up and also good for bridging. I don't think a newbie needs to bridge and although hardening up is a positive thing, primo tends to be a little too costy so I suggest just going with equipose

fina - although this is a great drug, it is not for a newbie because of the quantity of the injections.

anadrol - although this is used commonly amoung more expert users, it is not for the newbie as it is too toxic and should be avoided, dbol should be a great alternative

Dosages

test - 500mg/week

deca - 400mg/week

eq - 400-500mg/week

dbol - 20-25mg/day

winny - 50mg/day

anavar - 40-60mg/day

Length of Cycle

most cycles are run 8-12 weeks, 10 weeks is more than sufficient for a first cycle and pretty much the norm

test - 8-11 weeks

deca - 8-10 weeks

eq - 8-10 weeks

dbol - 4 weeks

winny - 4-6 weeks

anavar - 6-10 weeks

Stacking

test should be the base of your cycle and running it for 11weeks if it's cyp or enan (11 instead of 10 to provide a better timing for the clomid)

deca or eq should be run along with the test and finished 1 week before the test (10 weeks if the test was run 11)

dbol should be used for a kickstarter to the cycle because test and deca/eq will not kick in until week 3-4

winny and anavar should be used towards the end of the cycle for some hardening up, although they can be avoided if one sees it as too much (these should not be used at the same time as the dbol because of liver toxicity)

Anti Estrogens

armidex/liquidex should be run at 0.25mg/day from the begining of cycle and continued until the begining of clomid theraphy, this will prevent gyno (bitch tits) and keep the water down (water retention, so your face doesn't look like a melon)

many suggest having nolvadex on hand (as a cheaper alternative) to prevent gyno, but it's better to be safe than sorry, so spend a little more and go with the armidex

Clomid (taken from the clomid faq posted by the iron game AR)

Question: When do I start Clomid? Some say 2 weeks others 3.

Answer: When you start using your clomid all depends on what steroids you were using during your cycle. Different steroids have different half lifes and you should adjust your clomid intake accordingly. As we have seen above, if we take clomid when the androgen levels in our body is still high it will be a waste. We need to wait for androgen levels to fall before implementing our clomid therapy. However if we take it too late we could possibly lose gains. Look at the list below to determine when you should start clomid therapy. By selecting from the list all the steroids you used in your cycle and which ever one has the latest starting point then go with that. For example if I cycled dbol, sustanon and winstrol I would use sustanon as it remains active in the body for the longest period of time.

Anadrol/Anapolan: 8 - 12 hours after last administration

Deca: 3 weeks after last injection and clomid for 4 weeks

Dianabol: 4 - 8 hours after last administration

Equipoise: 3 weeks after last injection

Fina: 3 days after last injection

Primobolan depot: 10 - 14 days after last injection

Sustanon: 3 weeks after last injection

Testosterone Cypionate: 2 weeks after last injection

Testosterone Enanthate: 2 weeks after last injection

Testosterone Propionate: 3 days after last injection

Testosterone Suspension: 4 - 8 hours after last administration

Winstrol: 8 - 12 hours after last administration

Question: What is the most effective way for Clomid therapy.

Answer: Clomid has a long half life and as such there is no need to split up doses throughout the day. I read some where that it was 5 days (any feedback on this). Now if we used sustanon and we start using clomid 3 weeks after our last injection we anticipate that androgen levels are low enough to start sending the correct signals. If androgen levels are still a little high then the normal 50mgs/day of clomid for 1 week is not going to be effective. We need to start at a high enough amount that will work or help even if androgen levels are still a little high. 300mgs on day 1. I know I said don't split it up due to its long half life but try and split this up 2 tabs 3 times a day. After we have finished this first day we seek to use 100mgs for 10 days and then followed by 50mgs for 10 days.

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Supplements

(all of the following can be purchased over the counter in the united states except clenbuterol and proscar and nizoral 2% shampoo)

glutamine - 10-20mg/ed throughout the cycle and post cycle

creatine - start when you start clomid, it will help maintain gains

clenbuterol & ephedrine - run clen 2weeks on/2weeks off and use ephedrine on the off weeks

I suggest starting it 2weeks before the clomid theraphy starts or just starting it with the clomid

gradually increase from one pill to 6 or 7 pills in the first week (if you are unable to tolerate it then stay at lower dosages), take it at 6 or 7 pills at the rest of the weeks

run the recommended dose of ephedrine (depending on the brand)

milk thisle - run this at 1000-1500mg/day with the dbol, winny, and anavar as they are 17aa and toxic to the liver, milk thisle will help

ALA - run this along with the milk thisle at around 800mg/day (600mg-1000mg) to further protect the liver

saw palmetto - this is a good protection for the prostate and should be run from day one up until the start of clomid at 320mg/day

cranberry extract - this should be run if you decide to run fina because it is hard on the kidneys

vitamin C, 1000mg everyday

proscar - great drug for protecting hairloss, run this at 1/4 tab a day throughout the cycle (from begining of cycle until start of clomid theraphy), AVOID using this if you are running deca (or any other drug that causes progesterone related side effects) as it will speed up hairloss intead of preventing it

nizoral 2% shampoo - this should be used for topical protection of the hair as proscar will only help prevent or slow down hairloss that was caused by the test

multivitamin - they are cheap and should be used everyday at the recommended dosage (usually 1 or 2 pills a day)

Drink as much water as you can handle then drink some more. water will be extremely useful in every facet and should be considered your most important supplement.

Model Cycle

there are quite a few possibilities of running these drugs together, but here is one method

week 1-11 enanthate 500mg

week 1-10 equipose 400mg

week 1-4 dianabol 25mg ed

week 7-13 anavar 50mg ed

week 1-4 milk thisle 1500mg ed

week 7-13 milk thisle 1000mg ed

week 1-4 ALA 800mg ed

week 7-13 ALA 800mg ed

week 1-13 saw palmetto 320mg ed

week 1-13 proscar 1.25mg ed (1/4 tab)

use nizoral 2% throughout and a multivitamin everyday and

1000mg vitamn C a day

week 13-15 Clomid (300,100,50 see above)

week 13-14 clen 6tabs/day (1,2,3,4,5,6,6 tabs per day for the first week)

week 15-16 eca (recommended dose)

week 17-18 clen 6tabs/day

week 19-20 eca

week 21-22 clen

week 13-22 creatine 25mg ed

week 1-22 glutamine 20mg ed

ok I think this pretty much covers most questions asked by a newbie, any drugs not mentioned on here shouldn't even be considered for newbies IMO

Okay guys the main thing i want to add to this is that this can all be a bit excessive for a newbie or a first cycle.

I think if you are worried about the cost and use of all these items then you can get perfectly good results from just some Test enan at about 400mg for 10 weeks and some Anavar.

Also, due to the cost of Armidex i feel Novladex is a good substitute. Only if you are prone to gyno then you should go for Armidex (this is very expensive however).

Remember a cycle should only be used if you have been training for a long time not if your a first year beginner to the world of bodybuilding. These goods can have dangerous side effects so just beware and remember to learn as much as possible before you start anything. Some people often jump into a cycle believing drugs will make all the difference and then make no gains - remember you must have a excellent diet and know how your body reacts to training dieting and every type of mass gaining programs. Your diet and training is essential - first get these right before ever trying any cycle.

IMO though, this is a little much for some newbies. My theory is less is more on your first cycle. A newbie can have quality gains with just the Test and anavar. This also can give an idea if they are prone to any side effects

you can start off with less, if you scared of sides. but lets face it, if you are doing gear you want to be at the next level and you know there is going to be some adversity. If it was easy with no sides then everyone would be huge. some people can get away with small doses but might as well get to growing if your going to do it. if one is that scared of sides then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place because they are going to happen sooner or later.

About GH:

Listen guys - you have NO business doing GH until you have a number of years of proper training behind you, then maybe some properly designed steroid cycles - after which you should be close to or beyond your genetic potential.

Then you would consider GH - where long term, low dosage is better than hitting it hard with 6IU+ for a few weeks. 2IU for 4-6 months should give you some nice results - in combination with one or two 8-10 week AAS cycles (or several 2 week cycles).

Okay guys this in my opinion is good advice but if you have your own opinions please add them because the more a newbie knows the better. It will be good if some people disagree with some of this as it allows a newbie to get the point of view of another person.


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## kingmins (Sep 7, 2004)

Just a point that as much information that can be added to this the better. Thanks a lot everyone.


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## demon (Apr 23, 2003)

Another great post from kingmins!


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## kingmins (Sep 7, 2004)

demon said:


> Another great post from kingmins!


Thanks Demon - i got a lot of information from a friend of mine in the states. I will try to get him to post here as he got a lot of knowledge on bodybuilding


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## leanman (May 29, 2003)

> milk thisle - run this at 1000-1500mg/day with the dbol, winny, and anavar as they are 17aa and toxic to the liver, milk thisle will help
> 
> ALA - run this along with the milk thisle at around 800mg/day (600mg-1000mg) to further protect the liver
> 
> ...


IMO i think taking these in those amount just adds to strain of the kidneys....least common sense would suggest this no?

No flame by the way..)


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## robdog (Dec 2, 2003)

A very good post mate!

TBH i dont use Milk Thistle because i dont realy do many orals and TBH dont think it does alot.


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## Cheater2K (Apr 3, 2003)

If anyone feels this should be a sticky, PM me and ill do it right away


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## SD (Sep 3, 2004)

Ace post Kingmins!

Definately sticky that one, it will be a good post to refer noobs too.

Regards

SD


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## Cheater2K (Apr 3, 2003)

Done


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Very nice kingmins!


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## googlepig (Nov 10, 2004)

I think the example cycles you gave may be a little complex for novices. I know a lot of people who have had great success with sustanon ran at 250mg/wk for 10 weeks.


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## Cheater2K (Apr 3, 2003)

Yeah, its just an idea though  and the rest of the advice is sound


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cool, printing it up and will look at it during work


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

yeah its good, but 4 first time users the doses seem abit high?

week 1-11 enanthate 500mg

week 1-10 equipose 400mg

week 1-4 dianabol 25mg ed

week 7-13 anavar 50mg ed

abit hardcore for a first time user IMO


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

yes....half that would suffice IMO


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I am in a little disagreement on the clomid start date for the enanthate and cypionate. From my personal experiance 2 weeks is too early to start clomid therapy. This might be just me tho.

3 weeks better suit me and even that I thought was too early judging from my last cycle.

I also might be wrong with this as well but I feel clomid does nothing after a deca cycle. Blocking estrogen receptor sites is useless with an abundance of progesterone in the body which in it self has negative feedback on the HPTA.


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## cade_101 (Aug 18, 2008)

Thanks for the info was really helpful, answered most of my questions:thumb:


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## ukphil (Aug 23, 2008)

im a 1st timer ,i have started anabol only doing it for a boost been training for 2 years im taking 30mg a day for 8 weeks is that too much ? and also do you have to do a pct could i just not buy an anti estrogen over the counter legally and run along side the anabol


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## jayt (Dec 10, 2007)

start your own thread and in short....no


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## badsanta444 (Sep 16, 2008)

Kingmins, you seem to know a lot about cycling and know what your talking about so i was hoping you could help me out. i wish to do a 6 week cycle of anavar, low dose maybe 20 to 30mg per day (i have never juiced before) and was hoping for some advice. should i increase my dosage each week, pyramid it etc, or just do 20/30mg per day for the entire time? also, it PCT required for anavar at that dose? if so, what should i take? i have heard nolvadex is good as well as milk thistle. any help would be appreciated


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## Sylar (Sep 7, 2008)

kingmins said:


> *testosterone (cypionate or enanthate) - no other test is good for a newbie, sust is hard to maintain blood levels and short acting ester tests will require too many injections *


That's not true..

Sust is the exact opposite.


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## Baggers (May 31, 2008)

Great post cheers,

I was getting a bit bogged down in all the information that is available on this site. This has cleared a lot up for me and sorted out the wood from the trees so to speak.

Simple is best

:beer:


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Iv'e no idea where that came from but iv'e read it all in one form or another and some of it i don't agree with, but thats JMO.


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Sylar said:


> That's not true..
> 
> Sust is the exact opposite.


Nearly missed that, so true sylar.


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## Incredibl3Bulk (May 6, 2008)

intersting read mate reps!


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## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Incredibl3Bulk said:


> intersting read mate reps!


Wow can we rep him, he aint been online for 2 1/2 years and the threads 4 years old, how times have changed:lol:


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## N.P (Dec 18, 2007)

good read very informative


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## Adrian88 (Sep 21, 2012)

Alright guys I am on my first cycle.

Iam 6ft 2in 86kg 23 years old

I got 10 ml of decca and 10ml of tri-sus 250.

I was reading a few forums and said to leave the decca out.

So I am in 1ml of sus monday 1m sus on Thursday.

Is this a sutible first cycle?


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## TrailerParkBoy (Sep 20, 2011)

you can do just 1 injection of 2ml (500mg) per week. and yes thats fine for a 1st cycle


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## welshlad21 (Sep 12, 2012)

safc49 said:


> you can do just 1 injection of 2ml (500mg) per week. and yes thats fine for a 1st cycle


Could you give an example of HCG and pct with this cycle please?

Would it be: Nolvadex taken throughout cycle, then clomid 2 weeks after last injection? also could you help me with doses of the nolvadex and clomid, i dont understand the 50/50/20/20 thing... does that mean i am to take 50mg for two weeks then 20mg for 2 weeks? i am dyslexic so bear with me on errors, its worse with numbers and thats the part i am not getting lol thanks.


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## monkeybum (Sep 27, 2012)

Nice post - I only just posted re a 1st cycle the other day. http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/

The hardest thing I find is making sure you have everything and what dates to start and stop - is there no iphone app yet hahaha.



> milk thistle - run this at 1000-1500mg/day with the dbol, winny, and anavar as they are 17aa and toxic to the liver, milk thistle will help


is that tablets or concentration as I see 8000mg concentration on the market etc ? If it was tablets alone its very expensive.



> clenbuterol & ephedrine - run clen 2weeks on/2weeks off and use ephedrine on the off weeks


I gather there is no need to use these ?

Oh well better get back to the drawing board and work out mine again !!!


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## crazyeyes (Oct 16, 2013)

Very informative post. I'm considering my first cycle and after reading a load of cycles this is what im thinking.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Test cyp or ethanate 500mg 10 weeks

Dbol 20mg day first 4 weeks

Armidex .25mg through the cycle

Clomid 2 weeks after last pin

300mg first day

100mg 10 days

50 mg 10 days

Do I really need the dbol on my first cycle, is the pct long enough and do I need some HCG as well?

Thanks

Dom


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## sitries (Feb 28, 2009)

sound information but I don't think we should be sending newbies to this for their 1st cycle. its way too much gear! no need to stack compounds on 1st cycle. test 500mg for 10weeks is easily enough. I know people who have done test at 250mg with great results. personally id go with 500 though. save other compounds for future cycles.


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## crazyeyes (Oct 16, 2013)

Ok. I would rather do less and see how my body reacts. How about HCG? Seen some cycles where its taken all the way through. Would like to avoid balls the size of hazelnuts if possible.


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