# Westside Barbell Conjugate Training



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I've been doing research into the Westside Barbell Conjugate Method and I'd like a little feedback from the more strength-minded posters out there, especially guys like @ewen, @MattGriff, @Mingster, etc.

It isn't so easy to put it all together since at Westside they have a whole load of weird-shaped bars, pulleys, chains, bands, etc. which are totally absent from any gym I've ever been to. Please also bear with me for the entire post because the system isn't that easy to comprehend..

Anyway here goes:

Tuesday: Max effort squat/deadlift

Thursday: Max effort bench

Saturday: Dynamic effort squat/deadlift

Monday: Dynamic effort bench

First thing to be clear on is that this system is all about increasing weights on the 3 powerlifts, but it is done somewhat indirectly by training on max effort days with lifts which are similar to squat/deadlift and bench but not necessarily squat/deadlift and bench, if you see what I mean. Anyway more on this later..

*Max Effort squat/deadlift*

After warming-up, do roughly 4 sets of 3 reps, resting 3-5 minutes between sets, before moving on to sets with just 1 rep, attempting to get a personal best, from one of the following exercises:

Good morning

Low-box squat

Deadlift

Rack pull

Zercher squat

The exercise you pick will be done for a period of 1-3 weeks before changing from another from the list. The aim is to get a personal best in each block of 1-3 weeks before changing exercise to avoid getting into a training rut and perhaps losing strength on that lift.

The number of sets isn't really set in stone, but the rep scheme is.

Once that exercise is done you then move onto accessory work as follows:

2 sets of 6-12 reps of hamstring exercise (curls, etc.)

2 sets of 6-12 reps of lower-back exercise like hyperextensions

2 sets of 12-25 reps of weighted ab exercises (sit-ups, leg-lifts, roman chair situps)

*Max Effort bench*

After warming-up, do roughly 4 sets of 3 reps, resting 3-5 minutes between sets, before moving on to sets with just 1 rep, attempting to get a personal best, from one of the following exercises:

Board press (like a bench press but putting a plank of wood over chest)

Incline press

Dumbbell bench press

Rack press

As for max effort squat/deadlift, the exercise you pick will be done for a period of 1-3 weeks before changing from another from the list. As before also the aim is to get a personal best in each block of 1-3 weeks before changing exercise for the same reason as above.

Afterwards the accessory work is as follows:

2 sets of 6-12 reps of tricep exercise (lying tricep extensions, close-grip bench press)

2 sets of 6-12 reps of back exercise (bent-over rows, seated pulley rows, t-bar rows, lat pulldowns)

2 sets of 6-12 reps of shoulder exercise (seated shoulder press, standing military press)

*Dynamic effort squat*

8 sets of 2 reps of box squats in 4 week wave going from 60 to 70% 1RM

The idea is to control negative portion of lift and do explosive positive.

Accessory work is like max effort workout.

*Dynamic effort bench*

8 sets of 3 reps of bench press at 50% 1RM

Accessory work is like max effort workout.

As before, slow negative and fast positive.

I'd like to know if I've understood everything properly.

Furthermore, bearing in mind that my gym doesn't have chains, bands, weird-shaped bars etc. is it best to avoid good mornings for example? Can I safely do box squats without the chains?

Should the accessory exercises be changed every 1-3 weeks along with the main lifts (squat/deadlift and bench variants)?

Is it right to do the same accessory exercises in Max Effort and Dynamic Effort workouts?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

check this guys log out hes doing westside http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/member-journals-pictures/200437-jim78-powerlifting-log.html

martin brown is also probably the best guy to ask on westside .


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Thanks Ewen - you didn't take long to answer mate!

Always count on you.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Thanks Ewen - you didn't take long to answer mate!
> 
> Always count on you.


strength is my thing mate i skip the the whole `hows my diet` `my biceps dont grow` BS .

ive never run westside in its purposed method but have run variations of it in a round and about way .

its good in that it breaks things down so you dont have to but sometimes just squatting is 10x better than squatting with bands chains boxes whatever lol


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

dutch_scott said:


> Agree with ewen
> 
> Conjugating is great cos it helps with plagues but lots of champs don't use bands chains etc
> 
> ...


Glad you're on-board with thread Dutch. Good to hear your opinions but I didn't really understand your reply.. You say that none of the eastern block dudes used chains/bands but that you need to be geared up to do Westside?

So - please clarify - can I do good mornings, box squats without?

If not could you suggest alternatives for max effort squat/deadlift day?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

juiced up will always be better due to recovery which makes these systems more effective .

the russians had methods rather than fancy equipment as to squat a lot you just need to squat alot , GVT or peaking methods and periodisation are big parts of eastern block training , matt griff is very versed in this field .


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Ewen, the idea of the conjugate method though is to improve the powerlifts by doing similar but alternative exercises. I don't want to start spouting BS but the concept is that if you always do the same exercise (i.e. squats) then you get into a training rut and lift won't go up and you may even begin to lose ground.

Of course the traditional linear periodisation involves you essentially taking 2 steps backward to then go 3 steps forward. The conjugate system doesn't really involve deloads but rather rotation of max lift exercises.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@martin brown - Ewen said that you're the man to ask!

Cheers!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

I may look into this kind of training after my shows it looks to be very good for growth although not very targeted for bodybuilders i think it might just work.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> Ewen, the idea of the conjugate method though is to improve the powerlifts by doing similar but alternative exercises. I don't want to start spouting BS but the concept is that if you always do the same exercise (i.e. squats) then you get into a training rut and lift won't go up and you may even begin to lose ground.
> 
> Of course the traditional linear periodisation involves you essentially taking 2 steps backward to then go 3 steps forward. The conjugate system doesn't really involve deloads but rather rotation of max lift exercises.


your right and it does work however their is 100`s of 1000`s of methods and its find the one that suits you that counts , @Jim78 has a home gym fully equipped to take on westside .

russian methods like smolov blast through lulls in training offering pain pain and more pain thats why russkis are so badass .


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I've never really done good mornings in my training, and the idea of going up to a one-rep max without chains to stop it falling on my head does kind of freak me out.

But Westside Barbell suggests that good mornings (and variations of) make up as much as 70% of max effort squat/deadlift..


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> I've never really done good mornings in my training, and the idea of going up to a one-rep max without chains to stop it falling on my head does kind of freak me out.
> 
> But Westside Barbell suggests that good mornings (and variations of) make up as much as 70% of max effort squat/deadlift..


dont forget its saying to hit a pb on one exercise so take good morning you pb on that might be 30kg so hitting a 35kg is still a pb its not saying equal your squat weight .


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ewen said:


> strength is my thing mate i skip the the whole `hows my diet` `my biceps dont grow` BS .
> 
> ive never run westside in its purposed method but have run variations of it in a round and about way .
> 
> its good in that it breaks things down so you dont have to but sometimes just squatting is 10x better than squatting with bands chains boxes whatever lol


i agree, i love training with bands and blocks, boards etc, but u have to make sure you NEVER get far away from proper full raw squats, deads and bench, even if its once in a 3 week wave, they should be in there. Box squats are great at building hip strength, according to Mark Bell its been scientifically

proven that the safety squat bar from a box recruits more muscle than normal squats??? his thoughts not mine lol.

Ewen is right though, and Westside is aimed at equipped powerlifting as the box squatting mimics how u have to squat in a suit ultimately.

Just never go too far away from the bread and butter stuff.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

I am not and never will be a fan of Westside training. I appreciate many have success from it but it has never suited me - I far prefer Eastern block methods not the watered down American versions such as this and the Cube method.

Chains, bands and so on have a place and are great to use in a one off workout but with the varied tension that is created just from a knot or hook being looser I don't live how much variation there is week to week and strongly believe it is more for guys who lift solely in kit.

The suggestion that just squatting will make your squatting go backwards or into a rut is total bro science designed to sell there method. Lifters such as Taranenko squatted every single day and are still stronger than anything to come out of the westside programme. Simply altering the working % you are using changes the bio physics of the lift and prevents de-adaptation, this has been documented many times and is exactly what the Russian methods which work using physics and mathmatics promote, but they are ****ing hard work and a lot harder than westside stlye training. The method is simple - To squat a lot you have to squat a lot, you perform it so that in all areas your body knows exactly what it is doing becuase...well....you are always doing it - pretty damn simple. The % marks are where the thinking comes into it.

The sad fact is most of the 'Westside' records are set by Americans in America in not exactly well officiated competitions which is a sad thing to see. Nobody is of any doubt that someone like Benni is far far stronger than these chaps.

It does work well for some - there will always be some that suit any given system but then there is also the belief factor, if you think something wont work it generally wont and visa versa.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

MattGriff said:


> I am not and never will be a fan of Westside training. I appreciate many have success from it but it has never suited me - I far prefer Eastern block methods not the watered down American versions such as this and the Cube method.
> 
> Chains, bands and so on have a place and are great to use in a one off workout but with the varied tension that is created just from a knot or hook being looser I don't live how much variation there is week to week and strongly believe it is more for guys who lift solely in kit.
> 
> ...


I can't disagree with thats tbh, the eastern block programs are hard graft thats for sure and they do work and work well, i disagree that the cube method isn't as productive however, Brandon Lilley does not squat to boxes anymore and seldom uses bands, he came out saying what u think tbh...that the american programs are watered down and not as hardcore or as productive to raw strength than eastern methods. Think he's on a mini crusade to bring back raw lifting, u only have to look at lilliebridge and efferding squatting 900 raw and Dan Green at 220 doing 800 squat and dead to realise that the raw dominace of the eastern lifters isn't all one way traffic anymore.

I think obviously westside is aimed at equipped lifting and Louie is a decent bloke who believe's 120% in his system and i applaud him for that, i train westside because there's so much variation, ive got to be happy training and the russian stuff, altho effective would bore me to tears week in week out.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

heres what the dudes at westside will have you doing :lol:


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

lol ****er


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Can't add much to the answers already given. I'm a big fan of box squats, but prefer the eastern bloc training methods myself. I'm currently squatting three times a week using % of my one rep max. There will always be a place for assistance exercises such as good mornings to bring up weak areas in a lift, but I am a great believer in doing an exercise to get better at an exercise. As long as you are honest with yourself regarding your form, repetition can only improve your lifting by training your body to hit your lifting 'groove' an automatic response. Just like a great golf swing is one that can be repeated regardless of pressure, a great lifting technique is one that becomes second nature for a lifter to repeat again and again.


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## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

ewen said:


> heres what the dudes at westside will have you doing :lol:


Isn't that guy on a documentary about steroids, harder faster stronger??


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

alan_wilson said:


> Isn't that guy on a documentary about steroids, harder faster stronger??


Was it the fact it say in brackets after his name , bigger stronger faster lol


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## alan_wilson (Feb 25, 2012)

ewen said:


> Was it the fact it say in brackets after his name , bigger stronger faster lol


Ha, never even noticed that.

:screwy:


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Jim78 said:


> I can't disagree with thats tbh, the eastern block programs are hard graft thats for sure and they do work and work well, i disagree that the cube method isn't as productive however, Brandon Lilley does not squat to boxes anymore and seldom uses bands, he came out saying what u think tbh...that the american programs are watered down and not as hardcore or as productive to raw strength than eastern methods. Think he's on a mini crusade to bring back raw lifting, u only have to look at lilliebridge and efferding squatting 900 raw and Dan Green at 220 doing 800 squat and dead to realise that the raw dominace of the eastern lifters isn't all one way traffic anymore.
> 
> I think obviously westside is aimed at equipped lifting and Louie is a decent bloke who believe's 120% in his system and i applaud him for that, i train westside because there's so much variation, ive got to be happy training and the russian stuff, altho effective would bore me to tears week in week out.


When did Stan do that? Thought his best squat was around 385kgs - still a far cry from Malchinevs 450kgs without using the super wide stance that Stan uses.

The Cube method is very similar to Westside - it just spreads the workload out more, its nothing close to the workrate of the Russian systems.

One thing I would say regarding methods and I know I did it earlier is to avoid thinking of individuals - there are super freaks on many continents that regardless of method used would be super strong provided they work hard - the key is to look at the overall effectiveness of the methods - now many these days won't use Russian methods as they are bloody hard graft and they jump straight on the most popular method - but even with the modern drugs, availability and internet the methods such as WS and Cube and what not in the same usage periods have not even come close to producing the same number of top athletes as Eastern block methods - and I firmly believe this for a reason.

I would favor the Cube method over WS simply as it uses the main lifts more but I strongly believe in point 7


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

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## chris jenkins (Aug 14, 2004)

MattGriff said:


> I am not and never will be a fan of Westside training. I appreciate many have success from it but it has never suited me - I far prefer Eastern block methods not the watered down American versions such as this and the Cube method.
> 
> Chains, bands and so on have a place and are great to use in a one off workout but with the varied tension that is created just from a knot or hook being looser I don't live how much variation there is week to week and strongly believe it is more for guys who lift solely in kit.
> 
> ...


I agree with Matt, I like Louie's ideas and have a mountain of respect for what he has achieved. My late coach went over to stay with Louie in 1999 and when he came home we all trained Westside for a bit, we even had one of the first reverse hyper machines around this part of the UK. It was fun for a time and I enjoyed reading Louie's early articles. But for me the most effective routine I have tried is still good old periodization training, even more so if you have to hold down a full time job and have family commitments, it's basic, but very easy to follow and monitor your progress. It worked for the greatest powerlifter of all time, Ed Coan. Bill Kazmaier also followed a similar routine, but only attempting singles in competition. You can fluff it up as much as you want, but you can't get away from the basic lifts SQUAT, BENCH and DEADLIFT. The more time you devote training these lifts and not wasting time with an array of unnecessary exercises, the better your technique will be and the stronger you will become. Next to that I also like the idea of a Bulgarian type method, heavy doubles and singles up to a top set, then dropping back 10kg and keep going with additional sets remaining near your high end lift, allowing you get more work and keep going. Training should not be over complicated, there are so many variables when following a routine, all factors need to be considered. If your diet and recovery doesn't support your training, you can forget it. Sheiko is another very proven and effective style of training, yet it would be physically impossible for me personally to train this way with a full time job. You have to be realistic, keep your ego in check and not worry about other people's progress, if you focus every ounce of energy you have in to your own training and putting the hard work in, whatever routine you follow, stay true to the actual power movements and it will be a happy ending..


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

chris jenkins said:


> I agree with Matt, I like Louie's ideas and have a mountain of respect for what he has achieved. My late coach went over to stay with Louie in 1999 and when he came home we all trained Westside for a bit, we even had one of the first reverse hyper machines around this part of the UK. It was fun for a time and I enjoyed reading Louie's early articles. But for me the most effective routine I have tried is still good old periodization training, even more so if you have to hold down a full time job and have family commitments, it's basic, but very easy to follow and monitor your progress. It worked for the greatest powerlifter of all time, Ed Coan. Bill Kazmaier also followed a similar routine, but only attempting singles in competition. You can fluff it up as much as you want, but you can't get away from the basic lifts SQUAT, BENCH and DEADLIFT. The more time you devote training these lifts and not wasting time with an array of unnecessary exercises, the better your technique will be and the stronger you will become. Next to that I also like the idea of a Bulgarian type method, heavy doubles and singles up to a top set, then dropping back 10kg and keep going with additional sets remaining near your high end lift, allowing you get more work and keep going. Training should not be over complicated, there are so many variables when following a routine, all factors need to be considered. If your diet and recovery doesn't support your training, you can forget it. Sheiko is another very proven and effective style of training, yet it would be physically impossible for me personally to train this way with a full time job. You have to be realistic, keep your ego in check and not worry about other people's progress, if you focus every ounce of energy you have in to your own training and putting the hard work in, whatever routine you follow, stay true to the actual power movements and it will be a happy ending..


When you talk about "good old periodization training" do you linear periodization?

For example if maximum bench press is say hypothetically 120kg for 6 reps (ignoring for a moment all the other lifts), you'd start the training cycle at say 90kg perhaps for something more than 6 reps and then keep increasing the weight with each successive workout until you hit 120kg for 6 reps and then hopefully go past it?

Or do you mean some sort of non-linear periodization cycle?

Please explain, because I'm very interested to hear.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

MattGriff said:


> I am not and never will be a fan of Westside training. I appreciate many have success from it but it has never suited me - I far prefer Eastern block methods not the watered down American versions such as this and the Cube method.
> 
> Chains, bands and so on have a place and are great to use in a one off workout but with the varied tension that is created just from a knot or hook being looser I don't live how much variation there is week to week and strongly believe it is more for guys who lift solely in kit.
> 
> ...


Matt - do you have any links explaining these Russian systems which you speak about?


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

MattGriff said:


> When did Stan do that? Thought his best squat was around 385kgs - still a far cry from Malchinevs 450kgs without using the super wide stance that Stan uses.
> 
> The Cube method is very similar to Westside - it just spreads the workload out more, its nothing close to the workrate of the Russian systems.
> 
> ...


Hi Matt, yes bud I said in my post I agreed mate, do you not think that the Russian routines are for raw lifters though and Westside, equipped? just a general question that btw not saying Russian routines are not aimed at equipped lifters but the yanks seem more equipment crazy?

I do apologise btw, think Stan did that in training which of course isn't official in anyway. Agreed, Malchinev is a freak, as are belyaev etc, only have to watch the Titans to see how good they are.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Bull Terrier said:


> When you talk about "good old periodization training" do you linear periodization?
> 
> For example if maximum bench press is say hypothetically 120kg for 6 reps (ignoring for a moment all the other lifts), you'd start the training cycle at say 90kg perhaps for something more than 6 reps and then keep increasing the weight with each successive workout until you hit 120kg for 6 reps and then hopefully go past it?
> 
> ...


couple basic links .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolov_Squat_Routine

http://www.trifuel.com/training/triathlon-training/what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work


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## chris jenkins (Aug 14, 2004)

Bull Terrier said:


> When you talk about "good old periodization training" do you linear periodization?
> 
> For example if maximum bench press is say hypothetically 120kg for 6 reps (ignoring for a moment all the other lifts), you'd start the training cycle at say 90kg perhaps for something more than 6 reps and then keep increasing the weight with each successive workout until you hit 120kg for 6 reps and then hopefully go past it?
> 
> ...


Yes, that's general idea. It works much better after a few cycles, it's best to start a block of 12 weeks and start at the full ten reps, that way you are getting some volume work done early on, building muscle is also very important to getting stronger and I like the idea of starting at 10 and working down towards a single, gradually increasing the weight and decreasing the number of reps. I'm a massive fan of training heavy singles, but they can be brutal and can make you stale if you over use them. Here's a link to the Coan calculator

http://www.joeskopec.com/coancalc.html


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## Muscle Supermkt (Nov 28, 2012)

Excellent thread. The main points have been covered by Matt and Chris.

Nothing much else to add. I just wouldnt recommend Westside to a raw lifter, and especially not to someone who is relatively new to powerlifting.

The 3 lifts are the most important. I remember when I rang sheiko for a while, the idea with that program was that the squat, bench, and deadlift should be likened to brushing your teeth - doing the lifts over and over, so that it becomes natural.

As Sheiko said, "to press a lot, you must press a lot". True words


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

Jim78 said:


> Hi Matt, yes bud I said in my post I agreed mate, do you not think that the Russian routines are for raw lifters though and Westside, equipped? just a general question that btw not saying Russian routines are not aimed at equipped lifters but the yanks seem more equipment crazy?


The Americans certainly favor the multi ply lifting - the Russians dominated the IPF for a long ole while using single ply kit. Westside probably does favour multi ply lifting to an extent, but again that is probably due to them having you lift in kit more which is essentially what you are using in competition so you get used to the style of lifting.

My business partner was recently in Finland for the Bullfarm championships and Jonas Rantenen said that they hate the westside method, and the Bullfarm are producing some scarily powerful lifters, I suppose it is not the be all and end all for equipped lifters.



Bull Terrier said:


> Matt - do you have any links explaining these Russian systems which you speak about?


Just look up any of the Sheiko, Smolov or Bulgarian training programmes.


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## Huntingground (Jan 10, 2010)

Great read, am currently running 10wk cube programme, I may try one of these programmes next - Sheiko or Smolov.

I'll see how it goes with Cube first.


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