# What time do people wanna argue about IIFYM tonight?



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

10ish? while girlfriend watches big brother is good for me


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

Hahahaha... Sounds about right...


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## Pinky (Sep 3, 2014)

Why break a habit of a life time ay? Lol


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## Snake (Sep 30, 2014)

Just don't go too hard with Tommy, or he'll cry to a mod


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

It is becoming tiresome. :yawn:


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## Ryker (May 7, 2015)

ellisrimmer said:


> 10ish? while girlfriend watches big brother is good for me


There is no way you have a girlfriend. :lol:


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Snake said:


> Just don't go too hard with Tommy, or he'll cry to a mod


Who cares what he says, i mean he's hardly in a position to say anything with a physique like his.


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## babyarm (Sep 4, 2013)

Dazzza said:


> Who cares what he says, i mean he's hardly in a position to say anything with a physique like his.


Ouch


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## Snake (Sep 30, 2014)




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## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

Dazzza said:


> Who cares what he says, i mean he's hardly in a position to say anything with a physique like his.


Is there really any need for that?

Easy to throw around insults when you have no avi......


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Sharpy76 said:


> Is there really any need for that?
> 
> Easy to throw around insults when you have no avi......


True i'll give you that, but way he carries on you'd think he'd at least practiced what he preached.

Just gets on my wick at times, just do whatever works for you no need to try and force feed it to everyone else.

My excuse it im on tren, low carbing and have burned off 3500kcals in the last three days, so in fairness i'm hardly going to be in the best of moods.

Just getting tired of hearing him prattle on about aragorn every five minutes.

Anyway said my bit so i'm out, if he wants a crack i'll leave him have his say.

Off to get me some food before i strangle someone lol.


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Okay I'm here and ready. You wants to go first?


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dazzza said:


> True i'll give you that, but way he carries on you'd think he'd at least practiced what he preached.
> 
> Just gets on my wick at times, just do whatever works for you no need to try and force feed it to everyone else.
> 
> ...


Maybe he is tired of seeing people Advocate stupid advice for 30 years and trying to educate others.


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## Snake (Sep 30, 2014)

Dazzza said:


> Just getting tired of hearing him prattle on about aragorn every five minutes.


Tbf I've not heard him talk about Lord of the Rings once...


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## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Sharpy76 said:


> Is there really any need for that?
> 
> Easy to throw around insults when you have no avi......


Sharpy just told you what time it is lol


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

I try to learn from what has been written.

But to me it sounds like plumbers arguing over the molecules water.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Armitage Shanks said:


> I try to learn from what has been written.
> 
> But to me it sounds like plumbers arguing over the molecules water.


a molecule isnt just a molecule.


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

banzi said:


> a molecule isnt just a molecule.


Strawman argument


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Forum is actually pretty quiet tonight without an IIFYM debate


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IIFYM is old news

IDGAFIIFYM is the new way


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

As long as I get to eat pizza I'm happy as a pig in shit.


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Sharpy76 said:


> Is there really any need for that?
> 
> Easy to throw around insults when you have no avi......


Since when the avatar means anything? One of the best coaches in the world I know is skinny as hell, if he were here criticising IIFYM would you say he has no business talking about it?

The avatar thing is for the ego, period. It doesn't give you more nor less right to talk about nutrition or bodybuilding in general.

I'm sorry but you can't be preaching eating dirty foods, while being fat, on a fitness forum. At the very last it deserves a burst of laughter.

Some people doesn't care about their fat levels, that's ok, in fact that's perfect, but it's a completely different world when you laugh, mock, insult, disrespect, offend, abuse words like "dumb", "stupid", "idiot" in virtually all your debates and pretty much treat like shít those who doesn't eat dirty foods.

When you have a mod demanding you to debate respectfully and act like a grown man, you know you are an ásshole.

If you want respect, earn it.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> *Since when the avatar means anything? One of the best coach in the world I know is skinny as hell, if he were here criticising IIFYM would you say he has no business talking about it?*
> 
> The avatar thing is for the ego, period. It doesn't give you more nor less right to talk about nutrition or bodybuilding in general.
> 
> ...


Strong logic


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big Man 123 said:


> Since when the avatar means anything? One of the best coach in the world I know is skinny as hell, if he were here criticising IIFYM would you say he has no business talking about it?
> 
> The avatar thing is for the ego, period. It doesn't give you more nor less right to talk about nutrition or bodybuilding in general.
> 
> ...


Why didnt you just write "I LLS"


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## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Big Man 123 said:


> *Since when the avatar means anything? *One of the best coach in the *world I know is skinny* as hell, if he were here criticising IIFYM would you say he has no business talking about it?
> 
> The avatar thing is for the ego, period. *It doesn't give you more nor less right to talk about nutrition or bodybuilding* in general.
> 
> ...


You just contradicted yourself so much in one post.

So you admit a skinny person is one of the best coaches in the world an an avatar/picture means nothing.

Then say a fat person cannot preach on a fitness forum.


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Yeah, because talking about something and preaching are the same.

Debating with someone about steroids usage, and telling everyone around the world "You should use steroids" it's the same.

Just incredible...


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> Yeah, because talking about something and preaching are the same.
> 
> Debating with someone about steroids usage, and telling everyone around the world "You should use steroids" it's the same.
> 
> Just incredible...


Wow you're actually retarded lol


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

10.01..............Go!


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> Wow you're actually retarded lol


You wish, that would make you better than me, which shows you are insecure about yourself as you are searching for comparisons, just as everyone who is an internet tough guy.

Nice try, I have seen better.


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> You wish, that would make you better than me, which shows you are insecure about yourself as you are searching for comparisons, just as everyone who is an internet tough guy.
> 
> Nice try, I have seen better.


No really, you just contradicted yourself then brought up an article about steroids which has nothing to do with the discussion as to whether you have to 'be in shape' to debate/believe in a certain diet approach.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Dan94 said:


> Wow you're actually retarded lol


Lol'd


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> No really, you just contradicted yourself then brought up an article about steroids which has nothing to do with the discussion as to whether you have to 'be in shape' to debate/believe in a certain diet approach.


An article?! ROFLMAO

Ok mate. :lol:


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

It's not about what calories you put into your body, it's about how your body uses the calories you put into your body! boom!


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Well, I'm going to throw the first punch to this IIFYM debate.

I have noticed that you IIFYM defenders love to throw the "Energy in - Energy out" argue when you are trapped, mentioning elaborated things such as the thermodynamic laws.

Can any of you, IIFYM defenders, explain us why is that the long term fruitarians eat 3500+ calories a day and they lose fat like crazy? Without the help of any kind of drug and with minimal if not zero exercise. Note that their TDEE is *way* lower than their caloric consumption.

In what way your calories in vs calories out argue match this situation?

How does the thermodynamic laws explain this?

How is that the long term fruitarians are in a noticeable caloric surplus everyday, year after year, yet their fat levels never increase?

Tommy, you cannot throw the "No one would do it" - "You would die if you do it" extremely weak answer you gave to Banzi when he owned you with the Rabbit Starvation situation because the fruitarians are there, alive, and I was a fruitarian for 2 years :wink:

Note: The first months you gain weight as your body is adapting to it, you start losing weight at around the 5-6 month mark, so don't waste your time pulling that card.


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Big Man 123 said:


> Well, I'm going to throw the first punch to this IIFYM debate.
> 
> I have noticed that you IIFYM defenders love to throw the "Energy in - Energy out" argue when you are trapped, mentioning elaborated things such as the thermodynamic laws.
> 
> ...


Why did you follow that diet out of interest? I know some are against eating any living thing and only eat the fallen fruit, were you like that?


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

For me I follow the simple approach of proof is in the pudding, you wouldn't go to a mechanic who owned a car that runs like a sh1tbox, just the same as for me every IIFYM'er I know looks like sh1t and I'm talking in person, not a picture pulled off the web off someone who claims to do it, 'clean' eating and the like can all be called broscience etc, but the fact is, it works.


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> Why did you follow that diet out of interest? I know some are against eating any living thing and only eat the fallen fruit, were you like that?


Because I believed their speech, they were talking about health, incredible energy levels and feeling great year round, I was very young and didn't think much about the consequences.

Until I realised that I had to take B12 shots... If you need to take vitamin shots while being on X diet then that diet is not meant for humans.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

BigKid said:


> For me I follow the simple approach of proof is in the pudding, you wouldn't go to a mechanic who owned a car that runs like a sh1tbox, just the same as for me every IIFYM'er I know looks like sh1t and I'm talking in person, not a picture pulled off the web off someone who claims to do it, 'clean' eating and the like can all be called broscience etc, but the fact is, it works.


Hit the nail on the head... I don't belive for one minute that the people who step on stage at me Olympia are IIFYM :lol: I know a few people who compete (who place well in men's Physique and 212 class) and they definetley don't follow IIFYM bollocks, I'm not doubting than you can get it decent shape using IIFYM but you definetley can't get in contest shape!


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Big Man 123 said:


> Because I believed their speech, they were talking about health, incredible energy levels and feeling great year round, I was very young and didn't think much about the consequences.
> 
> Until I realised that I had to take B12 shots... If you need to take vitamin shots while being on X diet then that diet is not meant for humans.


Did you just eat fallen fruit or not that far?


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## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Dazzza said:


> Who cares what he says, i mean he's hardly in a position to say anything with a physique like his.




We'll all listen to you instead then, Arnie... 

@Sharpy76 People in glass houses, eh bud....


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## mattyhunt (Dec 12, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> Well, I'm going to throw the first punch to this IIFYM debate.
> 
> I have noticed that you IIFYM defenders love to throw the "Energy in - Energy out" argue when you are trapped, mentioning elaborated things such as the thermodynamic laws.
> 
> ...


I'm becoming a defender of IIFYM, ate typical clean bro for the last couple of years, but now a lot more relaxed and it works there's no doubting it. Eating over TDEE would definitely result in fat gain though. Eating a cleaner diet would most likely be more beneficial for health aspects also.

What inspired you to the fruitarian diet? Sounds interesting. Did you lack certain vitamins/minerals at all?


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Hit the nail on the head... I don't belive for one minute that the people who step on stage at me Olympia are IIFYM :lol: I know a few people who compete (who place well in men's Physique and 212 class) and they definetley don't follow IIFYM bollocks, I'm not doubting than you can get it decent shape using IIFYM but you definetley can't get in contest shape!


That's a tricky thing, Jay Cuttler ate dirty food but not because he was on IIYM, he said CLEARLY that he followed that type of diet because it was impossible for him to hit the calories he needed eating rice and chicken.

Yet the IIYMers use him when they are arguing. LOL


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

Big Man 123 said:


> That's a tricky thing, Jay Cuttler ate dirty food but not because he was on IIYM, he said CLEARLY that he followed that type of diet because it was impossible for him to hit the calories he needed eating rice and chicken.
> 
> Yet the IIYMers use him when they are arguing. LOL


If I'm correct then he ate dirty food when he was adding mass? Not contest prep? There is no doubt that to get to 300lbs area in off season you are eating a lot of dirty food :lol: I don't think it's physically possible to eat that much chicken and rice a day,


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

mattyhunt said:


> I'm becoming a defender of IIFYM, ate typical clean bro for the last couple of years, but now a lot more relaxed and it works there's no doubting it. Eating over TDEE would definitely result in fat gain though. Eating a cleaner diet would most likely be more beneficial for health aspects also.
> 
> What inspired you to the fruitarian diet? Sounds interesting. Did you lack certain vitamins/minerals at all?


The point is, you can eat the way you want, that's your right my man, no one has the right to tell you what to eat and what to not eat, you only have 1 life and it's short, that's it, the thing gets complicated when IIFYMers start claiming they are right and the clean eaters wrong, eating clean is stupid and eating dirty is the way you should do it, we are the gods of nutrition, clean eaters don't know anything, etc...

If you say "I have a flexible diet because I can, because I want and because I love it" is pretty different than acting like the new nutritional guru that knows it all and everyone else is an idiot.

The truth being said, the fruitarian diet is amazing in terms of energy levels and overall good feeling, you are fresh, alive and your energy is high as hell, all your stress disappears, you are pretty much relaxed and full of energy everyday, you never feel tired or sick again and you are happy 24/7 but you need to take B12 shots and your sex drive falls out.

When I did it I was eating about 4000 calories a day, I lost almost all my body fat but also muscle, I hated that, I looked like I had AIDS lol, but that made me jump into bodybuilding.


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

A1243R said:


> If I'm correct then he ate dirty food when he was adding mass? Not contest prep? There is no doubt that to get to 300lbs area in off season you are eating a lot of dirty food :lol: I don't think it's physically possible to eat that much chicken and rice a day,


100% correct my man.

Yeah!!! I'm think the same way, some people find it hard as hell, I hear all the time "Eating tons of calories is hard, you need too much food, you don't have space on your stomach for that" this and that but for me is easy as hell, I can eat 5000 calories a day pretty easy and I don't have a fast metabolism or a big stomach.

I don't know why is that lol.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I've made a lot of progress doing IIFYM from day one. Whether you can get contest-lean or not on IIFYM isn't something I'm experienced with and I'm not one to try and defend something I have no experience in, so I won't even attempt to comment on it... but in terms of adding nearly 60lbs of lean mass to my frame over the space of 2 and a half years and then getting to decent levels of bodyfat, it's served me well.

I think in terms of building mass and losing fat down to 10% or just below, as long as you're getting your proteins from decent sources, getting enough fats and not getting all your carbs from simple sources then you can't go far wrong, but then I guess some of us process "dirty" foods better than other people might. Either way, that's what works for me, if someone else doesn't like the idea of the approach or whatever then far be it from me to try and force it down their necks when what they're doing with themselves is of no concern to me whatsoever.


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## Big George (May 4, 2015)

Jesus!

I obviously need to spend more time on this forum, I was unaware all this was going on..

Love me some of dis sh!t :bounce:


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## Marvin Monkey (Nov 6, 2014)

This discussion is just going on forever and for the most part it's just the same old tripe being thrown from both sides. What is missing is the discussion on the effects processed foods can have on your long term health and how the various fats, sugars,  carbs, additives, e numbers etc, affect you on a cellular level.

True you can look great on a dirty diet but peel back the skin and it's a different story.


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

Marvin Monkey said:


> This discussion is just going on forever and for the most part it's just the same old tripe being thrown from both sides. What is missing is the discussion on the effects processed foods can have on your long term health and how the various fats, sugars, carbs, additives, e numbers etc, affect you on a cellular level.
> 
> True you can look great on a dirty diet but peel back the skin and it's a different story.


Good point well made sir.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Wow you're actually retarded lol


what he probably meant people shouldn't 'force' ideologies down peoples throats if they dont look good. debating a matter is another thing...


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## mattyhunt (Dec 12, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> The point is, you can eat the way you want, that's your right my man, no one has the right to tell you what to eat and what to not eat, you only have 1 life and it's short, that's it, the thing gets complicated when IIFYMers start claiming they are right and the clean eaters wrong, eating clean is stupid and eating dirty is the way you should do it, we are the gods of nutrition, clean eaters don't know anything, etc...
> 
> If you say "I have a flexible diet because I can, because I want and because I love it" is pretty different than acting like the new nutritional guru that knows it all and everyone else is an idiot.
> 
> ...


In all honesty I like clean eating, makes me feel good, but I also like to have the occasional pizza, mcdonalds, ice cream etc so iifym works well. IIFYM'ers do not need to preach, especially on a body building forum. It should be quite clear that hitting your calories and macros are going to result in a certain body composition regardless of which type of foods they come from. To get to stage condition, well I can't comment on that as I have never tried. But to get in decent shape (8-10% bf) there's no need to restrict foods you enjoy, as long as you're in a deficit and hitting your macros and micros its achievable.

Sounds interesting about the fruitarian, the B12 shots and no sex drive don't sound ideal though! Do you just purely eat fruit? I'll have a read up on it. I followed vegetarianism for about 6 months last year and had great results, leanest I'd ever been and ate some really nice food. Fortunately was also able to keep hold of muscle.


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

Big Man 123 said:


> That's a tricky thing, Jay Cuttler ate dirty food but not because he was on IIYM, he said CLEARLY that he followed that type of diet because it was impossible for him to hit the calories he needed eating rice and chicken.
> 
> Yet the IIYMers use him when they are arguing. LOL


i seem to remember jay clearly stating he *hated* eating food :lol:


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

zyphy said:


> i seem to remember jay clearly stating he *hated* eating food :lol:


LMFAO, that's true too, in fact he looked miserable (in my opinion) on a video where he was talking and explaining his daily meals.

I have always found interesting and estrange as hell that there are people that hate food. Crazy...


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

mattyhunt said:


> In all honesty I like clean eating, makes me feel good, but I also like to have the occasional pizza, mcdonalds, ice cream etc so iifym works well. IIFYM'ers do not need to preach, especially on a body building forum. It should be quite clear that hitting your calories and macros are going to result in a certain body composition regardless of which type of foods they come from. To get to stage condition, well I can't comment on that as I have never tried. But to get in decent shape (8-10% bf) there's no need to restrict foods you enjoy, as long as you're in a deficit and hitting your macros and micros its achievable.
> 
> Sounds interesting about the fruitarian, the B12 shots and no sex drive don't sound ideal though! Do you just purely eat fruit? I'll have a read up on it. I followed vegetarianism for about 6 months last year and had great results, leanest I'd ever been and ate some really nice food. Fortunately was also able to keep hold of muscle.


100% agree with you, enjoying your diet, meals and pretty much your life, is pretty different than claiming that you are on IIFYM because that's what smart, clever and educated people do.

I'm in the same position as you in regards to being on a stage, I have never done that so I don't know, Banzi said it's impossible to be contest ready on IIFYM, I believe him as he has been there, therefore he knows what he's talking about.

Yeah, that súcks lol, you look like you were anorexic. The sex part was awful, very bad, fruitarians claim that if you have a very very big surplus of calories, there's no way you can have some deficit but that's wrong.

I ate fruit and I had a big áss bowl of pretty much all the vegetables you can imagine lol. I believe that if fruitarians add some eggs and fish to their diet, here and there they could be crazy good.


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

zyphy said:


> what he probably meant people shouldn't 'force' ideologies down peoples throats if they dont look good. debating a matter is another thing...


Exactly my man :thumb:


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## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

richardrahl said:


> We'll all listen to you instead then, Arnie...
> 
> @Sharpy76 People in glass houses, eh bud....


Nice try, bit of a fail seeing that was 1.5 years ago.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> For me I follow the simple approach of proof is in the pudding, you wouldn't go to a mechanic who owned a car that runs like a sh1tbox, just the same as for me every IIFYM'er I know looks like sh1t and I'm talking in person, not a picture pulled off the web off someone who claims to do it, 'clean' eating and the like can all be called broscience etc, but the fact is, it works.


I don't even make sure my food fits any macros.......do I look like sh1t?lol. I eat what I want and don't track anything.

Me this morning


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Don't know why people get so hung up on this shvt. What works for one might not work for the next man.

Only you know your body and what you can get away with so do what you do clean/dirty/iifym and fvck everyone else


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I don't even make sure my food fits any macros.......do I look like sh1t?lol. I eat what I want and don't track anything.


No you don't lmao, exceptions to have to be made for people with Holocaust furnaces for metabolisms:lol: I do think IIFYM works for bulking obviously because every bodybuilder uses it for bulking and that's a fact, most of the time it's IDGAFIIFYM though lmao


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> No you don't lmao, exceptions to have to be made for people with Holocaust furnaces for metabolisms:lol: I do think IIFYM works for bulking obviously because every bodybuilder uses it for bulking and that's a fact, most of the time it's IDGAFIIFYM though lmao


Lol like @Abc987 said it's all about knowing your body and knowing what you can or can't get away with. Different strokes for different folks.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I used to do IIFYM, but now try and distance myself from the phrase as it seems to adopted and worn by out of shape idiots who wear it like a badge to cover their muffin hips.

The basic IIFYM science is sound. And any one you knows me well enough, will know that I believe you cut with any carb sources.

But so many people from both sides of the fence get the science wrong and wrap it in dogma and use that as an excuse for mediocrity.

Waving a pub med or a picture of a IFBB pro doesn't make you any better looking or stronger.

Its what YOU do with that information counts.

This is a results only business.

Until you've achieved something of note with your knowledge. Best keep your preaching inline with your achievements.


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Lol like @Abc987 said it's all about knowing your body and knowing what you can or can't get away with. Different strokes for different folks.


Glad someone's said it, idc how much science someone throws at me, I just simply won't accept that "lol eat less move more" works in every single scenario for every single person


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Glad someone's said it, idc how much science someone throws at me, I just simply won't accept that "lol eat less move more" works in every single scenario for every single person


I agree. There's no one set of rules that we all must follow. Too many people think things must be done a certain way. I've had a lot of people telling me I shouldn't be doing this or shouldn't be doing that but i know how my body responds to what I do so I can cut eating biscuits and cake lol. The next person might not be able to.


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I agree. There's no one set of rules that we all must follow. Too many people think things must be done a certain way. I've had a lot of people telling me I shouldn't be doing this or shouldn't be doing that but i know how my body responds to what I do so I can cut eating biscuits and cake lol. The next person might not be able to.


Completely agree, the whole IIFYM thing has been around for years, way before all the little brah fagg0ts jumped onto it, it was pretty much a wholesome clean diet with something like ice cream post workout and here come the "INSULIN DOESN'T MATTER YOU INBRED CATTLE"


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Completely agree, the whole IIFYM thing has been around for years, way before all the little brah fagg0ts jumped onto it, it was pretty much a wholesome clean diet with something like ice cream post workout and here come the "INSULIN DOESN'T MATTER YOU INBRED CATTLE"


See I keep things very simple. If I eat too much I get fat and if I eat too little I lose weight.


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> See I keep things very simple. If I eat too much I get fat and if I eat too little I lose weight.


Same, if it ain't broke don't try and fix it, following a clean set out planned diet 7 days of the week with the exception of a cheat meal on one day is not only less stressful, it's simpler and ime my body performs better


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IIFMM isnt a diet, its just what normal people do every day.

My mum eats what she likes but doesnt put weight on because she eats sensible portions.

Do you think she knows what IIFMM is?

If you want to be athletic and excell you need to diet in a ceratin way.

Genertaion nothingess has decided to eat normally, train and justify their non committment by giving their slack eating a name.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Same, if it ain't broke don't try and fix it, following a clean set out planned diet 7 days of the week with the exception of a cheat meal on one day is not only less stressful, it's simpler and ime my body performs better


Exactly,if it works for you then do it. It obviously does work for you cos you're in good shape.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> IIFMM isnt a diet, its just what normal people do every day.
> 
> My mum eats what she likes but doesnt put weight on because she eats sensible portions.
> 
> ...


I remember you being one of the people telling me a while ago that I was gonna end up a fat mess cos of how I was doing things lol.


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## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Exactly,if it works for you then do it. It obviously does work for you cos you're in good shape.


Lmao na still look like sh1t


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I remember you being one of the people telling me a while ago that I was gonna end up a fat mess cos of how I was doing things lol.


That was my way of motivating you to succeed.

You can thank me later.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Lmao na still look like sh1t


Hardly mate lol


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> That was my way of motivating you to succeed.
> 
> You can thank me later.


Yeah yeah lol


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

IIFYM preachers would love GH15


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Hardly mate lol


Still waiting for my abs to say hi:lol:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Still waiting for my abs to say hi:lol:


They'll come they're just shy lol


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> They'll come they're just shy lol


Lmao shy isn't the word, never had and my whole life


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Lmao shy isn't the word, never had and my whole life


Lol I'm the opposite,even before I trained I had abs.......just fvck all else haha. I had dem crackhead abs.

When you do get em out are you gonna stay pretty lean all the time or is it just for this prep?


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Lol I'm the opposite,even before I trained I had abs.......just fvck all else haha. I had dem crackhead abs.
> 
> When you do get em out are you gonna stay pretty lean all the time or is it just for this prep?


Being as I'll have never been that lean before I think I'd like to stay within two stone of stage condition, probably reverse diet for a bit after as well, obviously I'm gunning for top 3 so if I got that then I'd get an invite for the British as well


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Being as I'll have never been that lean before I think I'd like to stay within two stone of stage condition, probably reverse diet for a bit after as well, obviously I'm gunning for top 3 so if I got that then I'd get an invite for the British as well


Yeah it'll make the next cut a lot easier to stay within range.

Hope you do well mate. When's the comp?


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Yeah it'll make the next cut a lot easier to stay within range.
> 
> Hope you do well mate. When's the comp?


Yeah definitely, if I get down to actual stage condition which for me is probably going to be 14st I'll have dropped 60+lbs

September 20th in Birmingham mate


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Yeah definitely, if I get down to actual stage condition which for me is probably going to be 14st I'll have dropped 60+lbs
> 
> September 20th in Birmingham mate


Fvcking hell 60lbs? that's a lot of weight. Bet you'll feel small at 14 stone even though you'll look huge


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Fvcking hell 60lbs? that's a lot of weight. Bet you'll feel small at 14 stone even though you'll look huge


Lmao yeah, started at 18.6/7 and now I'm hovering around 16st


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Lmao yeah, started at 18.6/7 and now I'm hovering around 16st


Jaysus lol. Lost a lot already then.


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

I look at it like this, if a guy said to me "hey buddy, you're doing it all wrong eating mostly clean foods. You can eat pretty much whatever you want and look great" I'd say well if it's that easy to do and you do it, why do you look like ****?

If I look much better than someone else then im hardly likely to take their advice on board. If your going to talk the talk, be sure you can walk the walk.


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Jaysus lol. Lost a lot already then.


Yeah feel better for it though


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

DC1 said:


> I look at it like this, if a guy said to me "hey buddy, you're doing it all wrong eating mostly clean foods. You can eat pretty much whatever you want and look great" I'd say well if it's that easy to do and you do it, why do you look like ****?
> 
> If I look much better than someone else then im hardly likely to take their advice on board. If your going to talk the talk, be sure you can walk the walk.


Some fat bird was trying to offer my Mrs diet advice the other week lol apparently she's a 'nutritionist' but obviously can't sort her own diet out.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Yeah feel better for it though


I bet. I lost about 21lbs on my last cut and felt better for it. Never fat bulking again lol


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I bet. I lost about 21lbs on my last cut and felt better for it. Never fat bulking again lol


Lmao it got to the stage I was out of breath coming up the stairs to bed


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Some fat bird was trying to offer my Mrs diet advice the other week lol apparently she's a 'nutritionist' but obviously can't sort her own diet out.


Lol, exactly mate. I know some people can be very intelligent and know their **** but if they don't look good themselves or have a portfolio of clients they have transformed they are full of **** IMO.

If it was easy, everyone would be walking around sub 10%.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

DC1 said:


> Lol, exactly mate. I know some people can be very intelligent and know their **** but if they don't look good themselves or have a portfolio of clients they have transformed they are full of **** IMO.
> 
> If it was easy, everyone would be walking around sub 10%.


The amount of people I've had in the gym telling me I should be doing this or that and they look like sh1t is unreal.

The amount of pts that look like sh1t too is unreal. Had one asking me for cutting tips lol Fvcking hell people are paying you to transform them and you don't even know how to transform yaself lol. Send em my way.

I listen a lot more to people who've been there or are doing it now.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

FelonE said:


> The amount of people I've had in the gym telling me I should be doing this or that and they look like sh1t is unreal.
> 
> The amount of pts that look like sh1t too is unreal. Had one asking me for cutting tips lol Fvcking hell people are paying you to transform them and you don't even know how to transform yaself lol. Send em my way.
> 
> I listen a lot more to people who've been there or are doing it now.


Head PT tried telling my misses she should be doing atleast 39kg on leg extensions despite it being her first leg day and struggling on 18kg lol. Told him he should be able to double then and was welcome to show me haha. Pr1ck.


----------



## jamiew691 (Mar 23, 2014)

Dazzza said:


> Who cares what he says, i mean he's hardly in a position to say anything with a physique like his.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

If anyone is in any doubt as to the absorbtion of calories and if a calorie is indeed a calorie as far as the body is concerned take this test.

Eat 2000 cals of clean food, chicken rice oats water and veg for one week.

The following week eat 2000 cals of anything you like including sweets takeaways burgers.

Now monitor your bowel movements.

I guarantee on the IIFMM week you crap out more.

If a calorie was indeed a calorie you should have identical bowel movements.

Sorry to anyone eating breakfast.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> If anyone is in any doubt as to the absorbtion of calories and if a calorie is indeed a calorie as far as the body is concerned take this test.
> 
> Eat 2000 cals of clean food, chicken rice oats water and veg for one week.
> 
> ...


This a good point. One of my justifications a dirty cut is more effective than a clean cut


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> This a good point. One of my justifications a dirty cut is more effective than a clean cut


mmm

I think you might find the lack of turds on a clean diet is the body is using the food as effectively as possible without waste.

The excess turds is just food that the body couldnt use.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> mmm
> 
> I think you might find the lack of turds on a clean diet is the body is using the food as effectively as possible without waste.
> 
> The excess turds is just food that the body couldnt use.


And therefore less calories used and greater deficit


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> And therefore less calories used and greater deficit


when you are already in a deficit you need all the nutrients you can to ensure a better body composition.

Eating food you are not going to get any nutritional benefit from is simply pointless.


----------



## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

banzi said:


> mmm
> 
> I think you might find the lack of turds on a clean diet is the body is using the food as effectively as possible without waste.
> 
> The excess turds is just food that the body couldnt use.


surely if u have 3 sh1ts instead of 1 then your burning more calories and have done a extra 2 squats on the toilet?


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> If anyone is in any doubt as to the absorbtion of calories and if a calorie is indeed a calorie as far as the body is concerned take this test.
> 
> Eat 2000 cals of clean food, chicken rice oats water and veg for one week.
> 
> ...


But that is not relevant because eating sweets and burgers I doubt you would get the same macros (and sufficient protein, fibre, micros)

How about you eat 2k "clean"

and then 1200 "clean" (assuming this is sufficient protein, fibre, micros) and then 800 in whatever crap.

If macros and total calories are the same in both scenarioes, results will be unchanged. *Do you disagree?*


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> when you are already in a deficit you need all the nutrients you can to ensure a better body composition.
> 
> Eating food you are not going to get any nutritional benefit from is simply pointless.


I agree with you eating a diet of **** is not advisable, but if your diet is nutrient rich from lots of veg. This wouldn't be issue. Higher TEF and less absorbtion could help you.

It shouldn't be a primary tool, but by your own logic. It would work for a period of time


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> If anyone is in any doubt as to the absorbtion of calories and if a calorie is indeed a calorie as far as the body is concerned take this test.
> 
> Eat 2000 cals of clean food, chicken rice oats water and veg for one week.
> 
> ...


What you **** has alot to do with fluid and fibre intake, not macros, which is whats responsible for body composition.


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

I cant help but think as IIFYM as a way for people to f**k off any idea of balanced, healthy eating in a way that supports this lifestyle and to just carry on eating sh!t.

calories aren't the only consideration to this long term.

That aside, it requires a decent level of willpower to remain within your calories whilst being free to trough whatever you like.. I'd be willing to bet that a lot fall off the wagon without realising it.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> But that is not relevant because eating sweets and burgers I doubt you would get the same macros (and sufficient protein, fibre, micros)
> 
> How about you eat 2k "clean"
> 
> ...


Yes I disagree

You are aware a burger does indeed have protein carbs and fats but just in a differnt ratio?

The argument is a calorie is a calorie as far as the IIFMM is concerned.

You can work out what your ideal macro ratio is and you will be able to come up with a diet to match it using junk food.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> What you **** has alot to do with fluid and fibre intake, not macros, which is whats responsible for body composition.


If you dont understand the point thats being made you shouldnt really comment.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Yes I disagree
> 
> You are aware a burger does indeed have protein carbs and fats but just in a differnt ratio?
> 
> ...


But then how would you get your fibre & micro nutrients (which is a *requirement *under an actual IIFYM/flexible diet plan) which will of course effect results


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> If you dont understand the point thats being made you shouldnt really comment.


I do understand the point, the point you made was invalid so I was just letting you know.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> But then how would you get your fibre & micro nutrients (which is a *requirement *under an actual IIFYM/flexible diet plan) which will of course effect results


Are you saying junk food doesnt contain fibre or micronutrients?

Tell me what are your current micronutrient and fibre scores.

And please be accurate.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> I do understand the point, the point you made was invalid so I was just letting you know.


Well when you can post a picture of you not looking like the love child of a sumo wrestler and a hippo I might listen to your opinion.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> Well when you can post a picture of you not looking like the love child of a sumo wrestler and a hippo I might listen to your opinion.


Lmao, do I need to look like a fish to understand the difference between fresh and salt water?

Umad coz youv been training 20 years more than me and im bigger than you lol


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Are you saying junk food doesnt contain fibre or micronutrients?
> 
> Tell me what are your current micronutrient and fibre scores.
> 
> And please be accurate.


Cereals, bread, fruit/veg, protein bars, twiglets, popcorn. How can I be any more accurate on that, it depends on what I feel like eating on the day.


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

Followed a IIFYM diet, Didn't work for me, ended up at 124kg of fat. Why- Because when I eat junk I crave it and therefore couldn't stick to the calories. I have do eat clean to lose weight. I'm ok using IIFYM for maintenance if I avoid certain foods. Not saying IIFYM works or not if you can stick to the calories but for me it just made it harder.

Not sure if Insulin sensitivity comes into play either? Don't know much about it.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Cereals, bread, fruit/veg, protein bars, twiglets, popcorn. How can I be any more accurate on that, it depends on what I feel like eating on the day.


Wait, what, you mean you dont know the different breakdowns of the micronutrients in different foods?

I though you were tracking macros and micros?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> Lmao, do I need to look like a fish to understand the difference between fresh and salt water?
> 
> Umad coz youv been training 20 years more than me and im *fatter *than you lol


Fixed,

If you got down to the same BF% as me you would be 170lbs at best.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Wait, what, you mean you dont know the different breakdowns of the micronutrients in different foods?
> 
> I though you were tracking macros and micros?


How did I know you would say that.

Strawman response. I'm sure you're aware Ban, I have a little app on my phone that tells me my main micros/fibre etc and when I hit them.

Covered by a multi and common sense.

Got another stupid reply to give that takes you 15 mins to come up with?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> How did I know you would say that.
> 
> Strawman response. I'm sure you're aware Ban, I have a little app on my phone that tells me my main micros/fibre etc and when I hit them.
> 
> ...


Thank heavens for apps

So really you have no idea about the vitamins and mineral content of foods

"App says yes"

Generation nothingness in action.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Thank heavens for apps
> 
> So really you have no idea about the vitamions and mineral content of foods
> 
> ...


i highly doubt you've accomplished what I have when you were the same age.

More like generation clueless (I.e you) in action. Like I've said before, it's impressive you know how to actually use the Internet. Did your grandson teach you?


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> Fixed,
> 
> If you got down to the same BF% as me you would be 170lbs at best.


And I still get more pu55y than you


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Jalex said:


> i highly doubt you've accomplished what I have when you were the same age.
> 
> More like generation clueless (I.e you) in action. Like I've said before, it's impressive you know how to actually use the Internet. Did your grandson teach you?


Ohhhhh shots fired :lol:


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

there had been some pretty sensible discussion so far.....

but now the insults start, guess its only a matter of time before bananaman turns up and starts calling everyone an idiot.


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

banzi said:


> Well when you can post a picture of you not looking like the love child of a sumo wrestler and a hippo I might listen to your opinion.


Accurate enough


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

ILLBehaviour said:


> there had been some pretty sensible discussion so far.....
> 
> but now the insults start, guess its only a matter of time before bananaman turns up and starts calling everyone an idiot.


 @TommyBananas


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

Personally i eat clean, not because i cant trust myself to over eat on calories/macros, i feel like **** eating dirty, drains me. No question it works i have mates who diet like this but for me it just doesnt agree with me.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Frandeman said:


> Accurate enough


Mirin, size gains mired all round, all kinds of jelly treats today, all kindz :lol:


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

This was actually going sensibly, then enter the same knob-ends who throw all that out of the window each and every time by thinking that hurling insults is an effective debating tactic. Yawn...


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

godspeed said:


> Personally i eat clean, not because i cant trust myself to over eat on calories/macros, i feel like **** eating dirty, drains me. No question it works i have mates who diet like this but for me it just doesnt agree with me.


I found the same thing, when i eat shiit i feel like shiit.

Eating cleaner foods does make a difference to me personally and the less junk i eat the less i crave it.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

ILLBehaviour said:


> I found the same thing, when i eat shiit i feel like shiit.
> 
> Eating cleaner foods does make a difference to me personally and the less junk i eat the less i crave it.


I feel much happier mentally and physically not worrying what I eat


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

ILLBehaviour said:


> I found the same thing, when i eat shiit i feel like shiit.
> 
> Eating cleaner foods does make a difference to me personally and the less junk i eat the less i crave it.


One of my mates is vegan, eats 100% organic. His condition is spot on and he is full of energy, all the time, annoying. For me to get into his condition (sub 10%) i have to cut carbs hard and feel like a walking zombie. Am toying with the idea of cutting with his diet.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

GPRIM said:


> Followed a IIFYM diet, Didn't work for me, ended up at 124kg of fat. Why- Because when I eat junk I crave it and therefore couldn't stick to the calories. I have do eat clean to lose weight. I'm ok using IIFYM for maintenance if I avoid certain foods. Not saying IIFYM works or not if you can stick to the calories but for me it just made it harder.
> 
> Not sure if Insulin sensitivity comes into play either? Don't know much about it.


It was more down to you not being able to control yourself than IIFYM


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Lmao, do I need to look like a fish to understand the difference between fresh and salt water?
> 
> Umad coz youv been training 20 years more than me and im bigger than you lol


What's your bf?


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

godspeed said:


> One of my mates is vegan, eats 100% organic. His condition is spot on and he is full of energy, all the time, annoying. For me to get into his condition (sub 10%) i have to cut carbs hard and feel like a walking zombie. Am toying with the idea of cutting with his diet.


Im cutting with high carb vegan diet. Fat loss isnt quite as fast iv found but none of that **** flat weak feelings. And no cravings! I just eat **** loads of vegetables, fruit, lentils, beans and the odd spicey bean burger


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> What's your bf?


Right now about 14% at a guess, iv been cutting slowly


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Right now about 14% at a guess, iv been cutting slowly


Got a pic?


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

IGotTekkers said:


> Im cutting with high carb vegan diet. Fat loss isnt quite as fast iv found but none of that **** flat weak feelings. And no cravings! I just eat **** loads of vegetables, fruit, lentils, beans and the odd spicey bean burger


His food looks and taste great, full of colour and lots a diffrent flavours. Ive eaten with him a few times but it just feels weird not eating meat, always run home and gobble a chicken breast.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> Got a pic?


Not recent, but will take one after my next sunbed, colours not quite there yet lol


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

godspeed said:


> His food looks and taste great, full of colour and lots a diffrent flavours. Ive eaten with him a few times but it just feels weird not eating meat, always run home and gobble a chicken breast.


Last night for dinner I had roasted mediteranian vegetable. With a load of rice and curried lentils. 30g protein, healthy, and full


----------



## Fbmmofo (Feb 10, 2015)

Good discussion mostly.

I agree that people should do whatever they feel works for them and that they believe. As I've said before that if you want to get on stage then food quality and timings become important. Otherwise calories matter the most and then the macro breakdown.

Seems to be a lot of resent towards flexible dieting from some people here, which I get because like anything some people take it to the extreme and get preachy. Like some vegans, vegy's, Christians whatever. I also think it comes with lack of understanding of what flexible dieting really is. No one who understands it properly would say just just it pizza, whey and sweets all the time.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Not recent, but will take one after my next sunbed, colours not quite there yet lol


Lol just interested. The pic I saw the other day you were a lump,if you're around 14% you've done well.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

BigKid said:


> Glad someone's said it, idc how much science someone throws at me, I just simply won't accept that "lol *eat less move more*" works in every single scenario for every single person


This works for every single person in every single scenario.

You even agree with felone statement about eating less and he loses weight :confused1:


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> Lol just interested. The pic I saw the other day you were a lump,if you're around 14% you've done well.


Been through a breakup since then and spend a good few weeks on speed and other dugs so not quite the lump I was then haha


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> Been through a breakup since then and spend a good few weeks on speed and other dugs so not quite the lump I was then haha


yes, it will be all that lost muscle.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> And I still get more pu55y than you
> 
> View attachment 172095


Getting them is easy, keeping hold of one is the hard part.


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

banzi said:


> Getting them is easy, keeping hold of one is the hard part.


Na, I can always keep them just not the ones I want. iv only been dumped twice in my life.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> Na, I can always keep them just not the ones I want. iv only been dumped twice in my life.


Keeping hold of the ones you dont want doesnt really make any sense.


----------



## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

IGotTekkers said:


> Right now about 14% at a guess, iv been cutting slowly


14 % ???? you must have dropped around 12 % since you last put a pic up then !


----------



## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

ILLBehaviour said:


> there had been some pretty sensible discussion so far.....
> 
> but now the insults start, guess its only a matter of time before bananaman turns up and starts calling everyone an idiot.


Haha, yes. Like a fvcking Jehova on your doorstep, just as you were about to settle down and watch Corrers.


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

how can you get fat eating only vegetables???


----------



## GreatPretender (Oct 17, 2012)

Frandeman said:


> how can you get fat eating only vegetables???


my rabbit did :whistling:


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> how can you get fat eating only vegetables???


If someone did get fat, it would be because they are consuming more calories than their TDEE. *REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY EAT INCLUDING VEGETABLES*.

How many times does this have to be drummed into peoples' heads?


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

spudsy said:


> 14 % ???? you must have dropped around 12 % since you last put a pic up then !


No I was 20% max before.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Frandeman said:


> how can you get fat eating only vegetables???


Eat over you maintenance calories


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> If someone did get fat, it would be because they are consuming more calories than their TDEE. *REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY EAT INCLUDING VEGETABLES*.
> 
> How many times does this have to be drummed into peoples' heads?


Why do you keep missing the point of everyones posts, it seems to be a trait of the macro brigade, Tommy is always doing it.

Try and eat over your calorie requirement eating only vegetables.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Eat over you maintenance calories


Not you as well, see above.


----------



## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

Jalex said:


> If someone did get fat, it would be because they are consuming more calories than their TDEE. *REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY EAT INCLUDING VEGETABLES*.
> 
> How many times does this have to be drummed into peoples' heads?


Are you saying that if you consume more calories, regardless where they come from, you will get fat?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Why do you keep missing the point of everyones posts, it seems to be a trait of the macro brigade, Tommy is always doing it.
> 
> Try and eat over your calorie requirement eating only vegetables.


tekkers managed it by sounds of it


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> tekkers managed it by sounds of it


Shots fired.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> tekkers managed it by sounds of it


Made he isnt as Vegan as he makes out.


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Vegetarians get fat no from veg

Sweets??


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> Vegetarians get fat no from veg
> 
> Sweets??


Vegans eat avocados and nuts, high fat content.


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Eat over you maintenance calories


Try to eat only veg 2500 c

I'm not a rabbit lol


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

banzi said:


> Why do you keep missing the point of everyones posts, it seems to be a trait of the macro brigade, Tommy is always doing it.
> 
> Try and eat over your calorie requirement eating only vegetables.


big pot of quacamole should do it :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

a.notherguy said:


> big pot of quacamole should do it :lol:


Fats from fruit as opposed to veg


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Why do you keep missing the point of everyones posts, it seems to be a trait of the macro brigade, Tommy is always doing it.
> 
> Try and eat over your calorie requirement eating only vegetables.


Yes they are self regulating, which means it could be an option for people without a brain.

What's your point? Just because they are self regulating and therefore easy to manage does that make my point wrong? No, and If you say it does I will lose all respect I actually have for you


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Yes they are self regulating, which means it could be an option for people without a brain.
> 
> What's your point? Just because they are self regulating and therefore easy to manage does that make my point wrong? No, and If you say it does I will lose all respect I actually have for you


So even though you say it is possible to get fat eating veg you also conceed it is almost impossible due to the fact they are self regulating?


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> tekkers managed it by sounds of it


I wouldnt say 20% while strongman training was overeating 

I ate a lot of pizza then, now I eat clean as a whistle


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

IGotTekkers said:


> I wouldnt say 20% while strongman training was overeating
> 
> I ate a lot of pizza then, now I eat clean as a whistle


except for that meaty munster you been eating out :tt2: :crying: :surrender:


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

MRSTRONG said:


> except for that meaty munster you been eating out :tt2: :crying: :surrender:


Haha which one is that? I cant keep up with myself lol


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Why do you keep missing the point of everyones posts, it seems to be a trait of the macro brigade, Tommy is always doing it.
> 
> Try and eat over your calorie requirement eating only vegetables.


That doesn't tell us that eating over your TDEE in veggie calories won't equal fat gain, though. To me, it just smacks of "I can't resist overeating, so I won't touch any foods I enjoy" type thinking, which there's nothing wrong with per se but the point that you can get fat or lose weight eating anything still stands if the right amounts are consumed. That's what's being debated here, food choices based on calorie:satiety balance is a different topic.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> I wouldnt say 20% while strongman training was overeating
> 
> I ate a lot of pizza then, now I eat clean as a whistle


Not at all. But people still think you can't get fatter/fat eating as a vegetarian. You prove you can, simply by eating over maintenance.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

IGotTekkers said:


> Haha which one is that? I cant keep up with myself lol


the susan boyle look a like :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> That doesn't tell us that eating over your TDEE in veggie calories won't equal fat gain' date=' though. To me, it just smacks of "I can't resist overeating, so I won't touch any foods I enjoy" type thinking, which there's nothing wrong with per se but the point that you can get fat or lose weight eating anything still stands if the right amounts are consumed. That's what's being debated here, food choices based on calorie:satiety balance is a different topic.[/quote']
> 
> I cant tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing.
> 
> ...


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Not at all. But people still think you can't get fatter/fat eating as a vegetarian. You prove you can, simply by eating over maintenance.


Eating as a vegetarian isnt the same as just eating vegetables.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> Not you as well, see above.


Shuddup lol


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Eating as a vegetarian isnt the same as just eating vegetables.


Mind blown lol.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I cant tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing.
> 
> Its possible to get fat eating just veg but highly unlikley because your body simply struggles to consume the amount it needs to establish a fat gain over a consistant period.
> 
> Just because something is possible doesnt mean its easily achieved.


Aah so it IS possible then? Easily achieved to eat that volume of veg needed? No.......but could you get fat on veg? Yes


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> So even though you say it is possible to get fat eating veg you also conceed it is *almost* impossible due to the fact they are self regulating?


That being the important word.

I thought we (and especially you) talk in absolutes Banzi. I've always admitted it would be more difficult to eat that and exceed maintenance. But that comes with drawbacks, you know, eating dull foods.

We either speak in fact or opinion. I assume you feel (as do i) the latter is irrelevant. So fact is, my post is correct, even tho it may be difficult, as you correctly point out.

Just fkin admit it and do not try and wriggle yourself out of this one.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jalex said:


> That being the important word.
> 
> I thought we (and especially you) talk in absolutes Banzi. I've always admitted it would be more difficult to eat that and exceed maintenance. But that comes with drawbacks, you know, eating dull foods.
> 
> ...


He won't admit it.....he has to be right or he stamps his feet


----------



## BigKid (Apr 4, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> This works for every single person in every single scenario.
> 
> You even agree with felone statement about eating less and he loses weight :confused1:


It's hard to explain, I mean in terms of the quality of the calorie intake, what I'm trying to say is that whilst I do think IIFYM can work to a certain extent, I don't think it's the most optimal way of going about weight loss, so yes in the broadest sense I guess it is right yes, but I can't comprehend giving everyone from professional athletes to your average joe a lick of the same brush


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> I cant tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing.
> 
> Its possible to get fat eating just veg but highly unlikley because your body simply struggles to consume the amount it needs to establish a fat gain over a consistant period.
> 
> Just because something is possible doesnt mean its easily achieved.


A bit of both. Whilst it's obvious that you can't possibly eat enough vegetables to get enough calories to get fat, how does it moot the point that gains and losses are primarily regulated by caloric intake? Besides that, I get the idea that eating tonnes of veg rather than other things is supposed to fill you up and make cutting easier, but it didn't work that way for me - not only was I sick of veg after a week so didn't want to eat it despite being very hungry, but it made me crave other things more than ever because I was deprived of them. Sort of defeats the purpose haha.


----------



## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

banzi said:


> Fats from fruit as opposed to veg


i always assumed it was a veg. you learn something new everyday!


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> He won't admit it.....he has to be right or he stamps his feet


You're right there, there's no comeback... so expect to be told you LLS


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> Mind blown lol.


I think he means that they also eat other things like fruit for example, full of fructose. I dont count any of the vegtables i consume towards my macro intake except the obvious, sweet potato.

Do you calculating Spinach and broccolli intake into daily macros?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

godspeed said:


> I think he means that they also eat other things like fruit for example, full of fructose. I dont count any of the vegtables i consume towards my macro intake except the obvious, sweet potato.
> 
> Do you calculating Spinach and broccolli intake into daily macros?


It's ok I know what a vegetarian is lol.

I don't eat them horrible things.


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> It's ok I know what a vegetarian is lol.
> 
> I don't eat them horrible things.


Miss read the original post D.W.

No veg atall?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

godspeed said:


> Miss read the original post D.W.
> 
> No veg atall?


Gherkins in a quarter pounder count?

I also had a large dominoes last night with mushroom


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> Gherkins in a quarter pounder count?
> 
> I also had a large dominoes last night with mushroom


You got journal?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

godspeed said:


> You got journal?


nope, can't be bothered with one


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

@banzi

No response to post 176?

Come on mate, this is a chance to end this stupid saga that has been dragging on for weeks...


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Jalex said:


> If someone did get fat, it would be because they are consuming more calories than their TDEE. *REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY EAT INCLUDING VEGETABLES*.
> 
> How many times does this have to be drummed into peoples' heads?


I know..

.I was just curious how tekkers being a vegy got so fat


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> That being the important word.
> 
> I thought we (and especially you) talk in absolutes Banzi. I've always admitted it would be more difficult to eat that and exceed maintenance. But that comes with drawbacks, you know, eating dull foods.
> 
> ...


You want me to wriggle out of the fact we agree?

Its possible for you to walk on the moon, that chances of you doing it are nigh on impossible.

Why do you keep stamping your feet?

Can you get fat eating just veg, yes if you eat over your daily calorific requirements, could you do it, maybe but the chances are not in your favour by a long way.

Why dont you give it a try for a week, maybe you will come back and say, "you know what mate, its impossible".

I promise i wont jump on your post.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> You want me to wriggle out of the fact we agree?
> 
> Its possible for you to walk on the moon, that chances of you doing it are nigh on impossible.
> 
> ...


Good, we agree. Nothing further do discuss on this topic IMO. xxxxx


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Good, we agree. Nothing further do discuss on this topic IMO. xxxxx


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> View attachment 172097


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

You guys have just destroyed ukm if it's end of iifym threads


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> You guys have just destroyed ukm if it's end of iifym threads


maybe I'll try to get in contest shape using iifym


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> maybe I'll try to get in contest shape using iifym


Would make a good journal


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> maybe I'll try to get in contest shape using iifym


That would be great. Please me to see.

Nothing extreme that the people against it suggest. Stick to the accepted 80/20 rule and hit your macros/calories and I would love to see the results  .


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> Would make a good journal


Problem is I may not be competing this year, so in two minds atm

I like to experiment, test things, so we'll see....


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> maybe I'll try to get in contest shape using iifym


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

Do you not notice bloating (Moon Face) when using IIFYM?

I run a flexible diet on one of my first cycles few years back, as i previously said it made me feel ****ty, but it also made my face bloat badly.

I was using an AI, high water intake and kept sodium as low as possible.

Still my face was like a balloon.

I have run similar cycles since eating clean and the moon face was no way near as bad, i always get moon face just diet content seems to determine how bad i get it.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> View attachment 172099


Is that you guest posing?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I felt I was having a decent debate with @banzi I pop out to an olive oil farm, visit some caves have a fish supper and then 10 pages of the same **** storm we always had ruins it


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Is that you guest posing?


Nah,bloke in the pic is too young


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

godspeed said:


> Do you not notice bloating (Moon Face) when using IIFYM?
> 
> I run a flexible diet on one of my first cycles few years back, as i previously said it made me feel ****ty, but it also made my face bloat badly.
> 
> ...


I don't


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> Problem is I may not be competing this year, so in two minds atm
> 
> I like to experiment, test things, so we'll see....


I reckon I could get in good enough shape using IDGAFIIFYM for a physique comp


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

As an example;

First picture is flexible dieting. Second picture is clean diet.

I cycled the same AAS/AI etc, the only difference between the 2 was the types of food i was eating and the amount of calories. The second picture i actually had a higher body fat % and was consuming more calories, so would expect more bloat.


----------



## Titleist (Feb 20, 2015)

godspeed said:


> As an example;
> 
> First picture is flexible dieting. Second picture is clean diet.
> 
> ...


I can't see that much of a difference - If anything you look leaner in the first.


----------



## godspeed (Jun 23, 2012)

Linderz said:


> I can't see that much of a difference - If anything you look leaner in the first.


I was referring to face bloat mate, i was bulking in the second pic. Isn't the best pics to show face but its all i had on an old phone.


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

I no longer give a single fcuk what ppl eat tbh. As the wise man Lee Priest once said "just eat something post workout....suck a d1ck if you like"

Eat what you want but remember minutes on the lips = years on the hips...Look at the journals on here the traditional clean diet followers have the best physiques by far......Dis chiz in a no brainer and I've been bodybuilding since I was 12-13 seen it all,tried it all,,know what really works 

SickCvnt approved


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

SickCurrent said:


> I no longer give a single fcuk what ppl eat tbh. As the wise man Lee Priest once said "just eat something post workout....suck a d1ck if you like"
> 
> Eat what you want but remember minutes on the lips = years on the hips...Look at the journals on here the traditional clean diet followers have the best physiques by far......Dis chiz in a no brainer and I've been bodybuilding since I was 12-13 seen it all,tried it all,,*know what really works*
> 
> SickCvnt approved


For you


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> Not at all. But people still think you can't get fatter/fat eating as a vegetarian. You prove you can, simply by eating over maintenance.


Absolutely can yeah haha


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

MRSTRONG said:


> the susan boyle look a like :lol:


Again, which one :lol:


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Dazzza said:


> Nice try, bit of a fail seeing that was 1.5 years ago.


No fail on my part, bud. I merely posted up the only photo of you I could see at a glance. Even if you've whacked on 4st and got shredded since then, your comment wouldn't have been any more called for imo. You might think @TommyBananas chats some sh1te - we're all guilty of that to some extent though - but he's always helpful to folk on here.

But, I'm a peace loving man, so no hard feelings either way, mate.


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

If you ate enough veg to be in a calorie surplus your be crapping through the eye of a needle so doubt you'd put any weight on! Lol


----------



## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Perhaps but neither are his, only to go running to the mods each time someone upsets him.

He shouldn't go running his mouth off like he does, this thread is proof alone of how bad he gets when half the forum is taking the Mick.

Not much weight gain, prolly 2kg gain since but the difference being I've been dieting since march last year. Currently 222lb so not too shabby for someone who is 41.

Might think about competing next year, not sure if I have it in me so we'll see.

Look in my album, the better one is almost three months ago pre ttm cycle.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

DC1 said:


> If you ate enough veg to be in a calorie surplus your be crapping through the eye of a needle so doubt you'd put any weight on! Lol


Why, excess fibre does't cause diarrhea, it causes bloat and constipation.


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Dazzza said:


> Perhaps but neither are his, only to go running to the mods each time someone upsets him.
> 
> He shouldn't go running his mouth off like he does, *this thread is proof alone of how bad he gets when half the forum is taking the Mick. *
> 
> ...


You do realise he's barely even participated in this thread? :lol:


----------



## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Dan94 said:


> You do realise he's barely even participated in this thread? :lol:


For which I'm very surprised guess he's busy or cba.


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Dazzza said:


> For which I'm very surprised guess he's busy or cba.


Probably the latter considering people are still calling him out when he's not even posting..


----------



## Dazza (Aug 7, 2010)

Dan94 said:


> Probably the latter considering people are still calling him out when he's not even posting..


Yup shame but I saw it coming.

Oh for every iifym there's one of us have to do this just to knock it off.

5600kcals since Monday.


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

Dazzza said:


> Perhaps but neither are his, only to go running to the mods each time someone upsets him.
> 
> He shouldn't go running his mouth off like he does, this thread is proof alone of how bad he gets when half the forum is taking the Mick.
> 
> ...


I don't see much of the arguing, running off to mods etc, and have only read about 3 pages of this thread. The reason being - this to and fro-ing about IIFYM, does my fcuking nut in. I'm not one to take it all so seriously.

I come here for the banter mainly, to see if I can help out any new folk and - if I'm being totally honest - to knock one off to @FelonE's latest pic. :thumbup1:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Dazzza said:


> Yup shame but I saw it coming.
> 
> Oh for every iifym there's one of us have to do this just to knock it off.
> 
> 5600kcals since Monday.


To knock what off?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

richardrahl said:


> I don't see much of the arguing, running off to mods etc, and have only read about 3 pages of this thread. The reason being - this to and fro-ing about IIFYM, does my fcuking nut in. I'm not one to take it all so seriously.
> 
> I come here for the banter mainly, to see if I can help out any new folk and - if I'm being totally honest - to knock one off to @FelonE's latest pic. 1:


IDGAFIIFYM ftw mate


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

In the 50,000 threads about IIFYM that we've had recently I can't remember any real discussion about what these macros should be, or actually more importantly determining what they should be on an individual basis. This is a critical part of proper IIFYM as far as I'm concerned, as e.g. Alberto Nunez talks about when cutting to extremely low body fat levels.

Discussions always seem to get reduced to 'a calorie is a calorie' which is completely different. IIFYM is 'a carb is a carb' etc. which DOES NOT rely on 'a calorie is a calorie' to be true (it isn't).

Eating foods to meet optimised macros is also why IIFYM is absolutely not the same as a more typical dieter eating whatever they feel like while hitting a daily calorie target.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> In the 50,000 threads about IIFYM that we've had recently I can't remember any real discussion about what these macros should be, or actually more importantly determining what they should be on an individual basis. This is a critical part of proper IIFYM as far as I'm concerned, as e.g. Alberto Nunez talks about when cutting to extremely low body fat levels.
> 
> Discussions always seem to get reduced to 'a calorie is a calorie' which is completely different. IIFYM is 'a carb is a carb' etc. which DOES NOT rely on 'a calorie is a calorie' to be true (it isn't).
> 
> Eating foods to meet optimised macros is also why IIFYM is absolutely not the same as a more typical dieter eating whatever they feel like while hitting a daily calorie target.


What's Nunez take on it?


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> In the 50,000 threads about IIFYM that we've had recently I can't remember any real discussion about what these macros should be, or actually more importantly determining what they should be on an individual basis. This is a critical part of proper IIFYM as far as I'm concerned, as e.g. Alberto Nunez talks about when cutting to extremely low body fat levels.
> 
> Discussions always seem to get reduced to 'a calorie is a calorie' which is completely different. IIFYM is 'a carb is a carb' etc. which DOES NOT rely on 'a calorie is a calorie' to be true (it isn't).
> 
> Eating foods to meet optimised macros is also why IIFYM is absolutely not the same as a more typical dieter eating whatever they feel like while hitting a daily calorie target.


Well said


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

FelonE said:


> IDGAFIIFYM ftw mate


It made me laugh when I saw that in your sig the other day. 

I think we take pretty much the same approach to nutrition.


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

The same old regurgitated threads are ruining a good forum.

Its like bloody groundhog day.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

richardrahl said:


> It made me laugh when I saw that in your sig the other day.
> 
> I think we take pretty much the same approach to nutrition.


I ate 99% clean for 2yrs,now I eat what I want when I want........made no difference in my physique at all so all these people saying IIFYM is sh1t etc and everyone who does it is fat.............can kiss my black ass!!!


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

DC1 said:


> The same old regurgitated threads are ruining a good forum.
> 
> Its like bloody groundhog day.


When it comes to training/diet there's only so much you can talk about.


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

FelonE said:


> When it comes to training/diet there's only so much you can talk about.


I know but whenever anyone mentions IIFYM the guaranteed sh1tstorm ensues.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

DC1 said:


> I know but whenever anyone mentions IIFYM the guaranteed sh1tstorm ensues.


People like to argue, if it wasn't iifym it would be something else..


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

DC1 said:


> I know but whenever anyone mentions IIFYM the guaranteed sh1tstorm ensues.


Because people fail to realize both work and think only their way works


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

BrahmaBull said:


> What's Nunez take on it?


Have a search on YouTube. (Posting from my phone or I'd find you a link.)


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> What's Nunez take on it?


Hi. I am here to make one contribution to the thread:

Meal Plans vs IIFYM: What Is The Superior Method? | SHREDDED NATION

5 Reasons Why IIFYM and Flexible Dieting Isn't For Me

10 Aesthetic Naturals That Use IIFYM or Flexible Dieting


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Because people fail to realize both work and think only their way works


People need to be more open and accepting of others beliefs. We're all individuals and have preferences some however try and force their ideological beliefs down the throats of others and that where the nonsense begins.

A forum is for debate. Debate without personal insults and belittling would be too grown up for some.


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

FelonE said:


> When it comes to training/diet there's only so much you can talk about.


Exactly why I pi$$ about so much. I've been a member on here for a long time and apart from the new lab chat and seeing how different people progress, I've seen and talked about it all before.

There's a well known former UKM member that lives in the same city as me. Just through pure chance, I passed this guy about 4-5x in 2013/4 and every fcuking time he was talking about protein shakes. Honest truth. Once was on a Saturday night out too. Haha.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

DC1 said:


> People need to be more open and accepting of others beliefs. We're all individuals and have preferences some however try and force their ideological beliefs down the throats of others and that where the nonsense begins.
> 
> A forum is for debate. Debate without personal insults and belittling would be too grown up for some.


I don't agree

Ya tosser


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I don't agree
> 
> Ya tosser


Lol, pi$$ off ya d1ck!


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

richardrahl said:


> Exactly why I pi$$ about so much. I've been a member on here for a long time and apart from the new lab chat and seeing how different people progress, I've seen and talked about it all before.
> 
> There's a well known former UKM member that lives in the same city as me. Just through pure chance, I passed this guy about 4-5x in 2013/4 and every fcuking time he was talking about protein shakes. Honest truth. Once was on a Saturday night out too. Haha.


Must be great fun lol

Protein shake w4nker


----------



## richardrahl (Nov 19, 2007)

FelonE said:


> Must be great fun lol
> 
> Protein shake w4nker


Haha. He could be my...


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

richardrahl said:


> Haha. He could be my...
> 
> View attachment 172103


Aaaah friend lol


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Because people fail to realize both work and think only their way works


Spot on fella knee. My only issue with these threads is this - if the debates were kept sensible then it wouldn't be a problem, and even the banter is hilarious when it's obvious that some people are joking about.... the only thing spoiling it, as I've said in this thread already, is a handful of muppets who get their feelings hurt every time someone disagrees with them and have to start hurling petty insults at each other. Grow a pair of bollocks and get some self esteem FFS, you don't have to take someone disagreeing with your opinion as a personal attack...


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

I thought this thread was sorted and the iifym saga has concluded.

What's the next topic


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Jalex said:


> I thought this thread was sorted and the iifym saga has concluded.
> 
> What's the next topic


You know what was being said about if you ate 2500kcal clean one week then next week 2500kcal unclean that craps would be different sizes, surely that means different amount of calories have been taken in, so what were you meaning about fibre?


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Jalex said:


> I thought this thread was sorted and the iifym saga has concluded.


Until one of the usuals gets another sniff of a diet thread, then the recurring shitstorm will continue.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

ellisrimmer said:


> You know what was being said about if you ate 2500kcal clean one week then next week 2500kcal unclean that craps would be different sizes, surely that means different amount of calories have been taken in, so what were you meaning about fibre?


That was me talking about that crap (pun intended).

Still at work but will reply anyways later and debunk this chit (pun intended).


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

I said:


> Until one of the usuals gets another sniff of a diet thread' date=' then the recurring shitstorm will continue.


Nah me and @banzi have reached agreement (sort of) and @TommyBananas looks like he CBA any more hence 1 post in a 250 post thread from him.

Therefore the whole forum will be dead for a while now until something else comes up!


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

FelonE said:


> For you


Thanks mate yes I forgot to add "for me" as thats the fundemental law of bodybuilding when its all said and done....Finding what works for you


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Jalex said:


> Nah me and @banzi have reached agreement (sort of) and @TommyBananas looks like he CBA any more hence 1 post in a 250 post thread from him.
> 
> Therefore the whole forum will be dead for a while now until something else comes up!


Big up for @banzi and @TommyBananas two great members who certainly spark terrific debate and banter on UKM!

Love you bro's [no ****]


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I said:


> Spot on fella knee. My only issue with these threads is this - if the debates were kept sensible then it wouldn't be a problem' date=' and even the banter is hilarious when it's obvious that some people are joking about.... the only thing spoiling it, as I've said in this thread already, is a handful of muppets who get their feelings hurt every time someone disagrees with them and have to start hurling petty insults at each other. Grow a pair of bollocks and get some self esteem FFS, you don't have to take someone disagreeing with your opinion as a personal attack...[/quote']
> 
> Agree
> 
> The poofs need to lighten up


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

I'm working on a new diet manifesto called MIFYM btw [Make it fit your macros]

If you eat too much chit you just make sure to burn the excess cals.....

Article is WIP right now....Publishing rights for sale


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

SickCurrent said:


> I'm working on a new diet manifesto called MIFYM btw [Make it fit your macros]
> 
> If you eat too much chit you just make sure to burn the excess cals.....
> 
> Article is WIP right now....Publishing rights for sale


Might be out around the same time as my 'IDGAFIIYM As Long As It Fits In My Mouth'


----------



## sneeky_dave (Apr 2, 2013)

FelonE said:


> Might be out around the same time as my 'IDGAFIIYM As Long As It Fits In My Mouth'


Said the dutchess to the vicar


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

sneeky_dave said:


> Said the dutchess to the vicar


Suits you Sir


----------



## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

FelonE said:


> Might be out around the same time as my 'IDGAFIIYM As Long As It Fits In My Mouth'


Lol I like that bro


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> In the 50,000 threads about IIFYM that we've had recently I can't remember any real discussion about what these macros should be, or actually more importantly determining what they should be on an individual basis. This is a critical part of proper IIFYM as far as I'm concerned, as e.g. Alberto Nunez talks about when cutting to extremely low body fat levels.
> 
> Discussions always seem to get reduced to 'a calorie is a calorie' which is completely different. IIFYM is 'a carb is a carb' etc. which DOES NOT rely on 'a calorie is a calorie' to be true (it isn't).
> 
> Eating foods to meet optimised macros is also why IIFYM is absolutely not the same as a more typical dieter eating whatever they feel like while hitting a daily calorie target.


Very good post


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

Having done this style of dieting now my opnion is

A carb is pretty much a carb

Aka a fat free muffin vs 300g sweet pot

No real difference (as long as carbs a within reason)

Eg if I were dieting

On 150g of carbs and got those from fat free muffins or sweet pot imo would make f all difference

However be careful of sh!t quality fats and protein

They wont help you grow


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

SickCurrent said:


> Big up for @banzi and @TommyBananas two great members who certainly spark terrific debate and banter on UKM!
> 
> Love you bro's [no ****]


Banzi is just bitter


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

bail said:


> Banzi is just bitter


Lol

If only you knew.


----------



## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

I just eat whatever I want to eat, whenever I want to eat it.

As long as I'm happy I don't give a fcuk.

I personaly believe all diets are a load of crap destined for failure.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dezw said:


> I just eat whatever I want to eat, whenever I want to eat it.
> 
> As long as I'm happy I don't give a fcuk.
> 
> I personaly believe all diets are a load of crap destined for failure.


Dont worry, we dont need a picture.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> Lol
> 
> If only you knew.


Don't ignore his post before that though


----------



## Dezw (May 13, 2009)

banzi said:


> Dont worry, we dont need a picture.


Thank fcuk for that


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Don't ignore his post before that though


hes entitled to his opinion, Im not going to call him an idiot because of it.

Thats not nice.


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

bail said:


> Having done this style of dieting now my opnion is
> 
> A carb is pretty much a carb
> 
> ...


I'm glad you tried it, even if you don't end up sticking with it - I mean, flexible dieting is just that - eating a decent diet but being able to have that muffin, or a bit of ice cream because you saved a few calories/carbs/fats and fancied a treat, or perhaps you're out one day and friends are having a McDonalds, and you can make it fit without hampering progress etc you just eat really well for the rest of the day etc.

Most people think IIFYM = Eat crap all day. When that was never the case, although, some do and it still produces results, just not idea for our body ofcourse.


----------



## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Just were seeing testimonials and photos of the long term fruitarians, the living proof that the thermodynamics laws don't apply to nutrition.

I love how they make some big mouths of here look ridiculous with zero effort and without even knowing it lol.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Big Man 123 said:


> Just were seeing testimonials and photos of the long term fruitarians, the living proof that the thermodynamics laws don't apply to nutrition.
> 
> I love how they make some big mouths of here look ridiculous with zero effort and without even knowing it lol.


Any scientific studies?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Big Man 123 said:


> Just were seeing testimonials and photos of the long term *fruitarians*, the living proof that the thermodynamics laws don't apply to nutrition.
> 
> I love how they make some big mouths of here look ridiculous with zero effort and without even knowing it lol.


Homophobic post reported


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

FelonE said:


> I ate 99% clean for 2yrs,now I eat what I want when I want........made no difference in my physique at all so all these people saying IIFYM is sh1t etc and everyone who does it is fat.............can kiss my black ass!!!


Do you not think steroids played a big part in this though?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> Do you not think steroids played a big part in this though?


Maybe


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm not striving for perfection or stage condition so I do follow a relaxed version of IIFYM

When I used a coach last year and followed a much stricter program then my results where much quicker and better whilst using a considerably lower aas dose.

All diets have there merits whatever label they are given and I'm guessing it all comes down to the individual and how truely they actually follow their chosen diet method.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Big Man 123 said:


> Just were seeing testimonials and photos of the long term fruitarians, the living proof that the thermodynamics laws don't apply to nutrition.
> 
> I love how they make some big mouths of here look ridiculous with zero effort and without even knowing it lol.


The laws of thermodynamics apply to every one and everything.

Thats not an example the laws of thermodynamics no applying to nutrition. That's you not understanding thermodynamics


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

FelonE said:


> It was more down to you not being able to control yourself than IIFYM


But I can control my eating when I follow a clean diet plan and avoid junk food. Therefore IIFYM doesn't work for me personally when I want to lose fat. I cant stick to a calorie restriction if I use the IIFYM way of eating. IF I could then I'd have no doubt it would work fine.

*** Just ate 2 kit kat chunky's for breakfast***


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

GPRIM said:


> But I can control my eating when I follow a clean diet plan and avoid junk food. Therefore IIFYM doesn't work for me personally when I want to lose fat. I cant stick to a calorie restriction if I use the IIFYM way of eating. IF I could then I'd have no doubt it would work fine.
> 
> *** Just ate 2 kit kat chunky's for breakfast***


IIFYM isn't about eating junk though!

It is supposed to be a clean diet with an occasional 'treat' food to help stave off binges but still staying within the same calories/macros/micros as a 'clean diet'


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

GPRIM said:


> But I can control my eating when I follow a clean diet plan and avoid junk food. Therefore IIFYM doesn't work for me personally when I want to lose fat. I cant stick to a calorie restriction if I use the IIFYM way of eating. IF I could then I'd have no doubt it would work fine.
> 
> *** Just ate 2 kit kat chunky's for breakfast***


It does work, YOU just don't have the will power.

Doesn't mean it doesn't work.


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> IIFYM isn't about eating junk though!
> 
> It is supposed to be a clean diet with an occasional 'treat' food to help stave off binges but still staying within the same calories/macros/micros as a 'clean diet'


Which doesn't work for me  Its all or nothing!!!


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

GPRIM said:


> Which doesn't work for me  Its all or nothing!!!


So swapping a chicken and rice meal for an oven chips and steak meal once or twice a week would totally blow your condition??


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

Dan94 said:


> It does work, YOU just don't have the will power.
> 
> Doesn't mean it doesn't work.


It doesn't work for me... Didn't say it didn't work full stop.

I cant stick to a calorie restriction if I use the IIFYM way of eating. *IF I could then I'd have no doubt it would work fine*


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> So swapping a chicken and rice meal for an oven chips and steak meal once or twice a week would totally blow your condition??


More a case of making me crave bad food and I would stray from the calorie restriction. I don't seem to get this when I eat clean all the time.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

GPRIM said:


> More a case of making me crave bad food and I would stray from the calorie restriction. I don't seem to get this when I eat clean all the time.


Fair enough, so it's mental thing rather than physical


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

G-man99 said:


> Fair enough, so it's mental thing rather than physical


Pretty much. I wasn't sure if insulin sensitivity came into play with this at all? Don't really know a great deal about it.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

People's interpretation of clean food and junk food are very subjective, which puts the whole IIFYM debate into a grey area depending on your views


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

G-man99 said:


> Do you not think steroids played a big part in this though?


No, plenty of naturals follow this method too.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

TommyBananas said:


> No, plenty of naturals follow this method too.


Was aimed specifically at felone with him going from clean eating natty to steroid abusing IDGAFIIFYM

The results from the huge change in diet without steroids would yield totally different results than he is seeing now


----------



## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

G-man99 said:


> Was aimed specifically at felone with him going from clean eating natty to steroid abusing IDGAFIIFYM
> 
> The results from the huge change in diet without steroids would yield totally different results than he is seeing now


In what way? Obviously with gear he would gain more muscle but unless i have misunderstood it doesnt make sense what youve asked?


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

TommyBananas said:


> In what way? Obviously with gear he would gain more muscle but unless i have misunderstood it doesnt make sense what youve asked?


The vast majority of people who, if they followed a clean well structured diet for 2 years to then going on a diet which has little regard for calories/macros but with the aim of gaining 'weight' would inevitably get fat or at least be out of shape more so than when using steroids

I used him as an example as he posted.

Don't forget though, it was only recently that he adopted this approach and results long term will be different from what he is seeing now.

'His' approach will inevitably be on the bulk/cut/bulk/cut routine, whereas following a more structured diet approach would then keep the bulk/cut cycle to a much more manageable situation without having to go to more extreme levels of calorie restriction


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

TommyBananas said:


> Oh youre talking about just eating anything and not counting cals or macros.


Yes.

I said earlier, my approach is a relaxed IIFYM style and my results along with aas/training are ok.

But when I followed a much stricter controlled eating plan that was 'clean' my results where better and using less aas too.

I don't have the mental willpower to follow the clean/boring diet whilst aiming for contest condition as it doesn't fit in with my lifestyle or aims.

I want to be in better shape than most whilst still enjoying my food and using training as my hobby.

A lot of my food is clean', and macros/micros/calories are looked at but by no means stuck too religiously

Today will see me have 4 'good meals' followed by a nice tea and dessert and a few beers as we have friends over this evening.

I won't remove any calories today nor will I adjust tomorrow's either because of it.

I'll carry on tomorrow with a varied diet of foods I like and hit the gym as usual


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

You just said my beliefs Sir, Nothing should consume life 



G-man99 said:


> Yes.
> 
> I said earlier, my approach is a relaxed IIFYM style and my results along with aas/training are ok.
> 
> ...


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> Was aimed specifically at felone with him going from clean eating natty to steroid abusing IDGAFIIFYM
> 
> The results from the huge change in diet without steroids would yield totally different results than he is seeing now


Any proof they would yield totally different results for me?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> The vast majority of people who, if they followed a clean well structured diet for 2 years to then going on a diet which has little regard for calories/macros but with the aim of gaining 'weight' would inevitably get fat or at least be out of shape more so than when using steroids
> 
> I used him as an example as he posted.
> 
> ...


Are you sure? You seem to know my body well lol


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

GPRIM said:


> It doesn't work for me... Didn't say it didn't work full stop.
> 
> I cant stick to a calorie restriction if I use the IIFYM way of eating. *IF I could then I'd have no doubt it would work fine*


Your mindset is wrong, iifym doesn't mean you HAVE to eat the foods you have no self control with. It means you can enjoy meal variety


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Are you sure? You seem to know my body well lol


Do you not agree then? Do you think if you ate what you ate now / while you've been on tren youd be in the same condition if you hadn't use the AAS?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> I think G-man has taken the stancee that you started eating anything and everything ignoring calories and macros (not sure if you did, but I'm sure you roughly counted either way - at least for a while).
> 
> So he is assuming you went from a diet which was calorie/macro controlled with clean foods, to eating like a nutter.


This is where he's mistaken. I haven't counted a calorie/macro for a month but.........I don't stuff my face and I don't eat loads of crap like some people think. The reason I've kept my condition isn't by chance. I still kept lean because I manage portion size and don't over eat. Where some people can't control/trust themselves with food I can.

I know my body very well and know what I can/can't do. I don't stuff my face with junk all day lol but I'm not worried about eating food I want either. I put the work in in the gym which affords me a more lax diet.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Do you not agree then? Do you think if you ate what you ate now / while you've been on tren youd be in the same condition if you hadn't use the AAS?


What do I eat now?


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If his calories and macros were the same at both times; yes, he agrees - I am now FeloneE's spokes person.


I think what G-MAN was saying is that @FelonE has stopped counting calories and started eating anything :lol: He's still looking great but I think what G-MAN is saying is would that be the same if he was still Natty and wasn't running cycles


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> I think what G-MAN was saying is that @FelonE has stopped counting calories and started eating anything :lol: He's still looking great but I think what G-MAN is saying is would that be the same if he was still Natty and wasn't running cycles


I'm naturally lean,had abs before I'd ever trained.

I believe I'd be in roughly the same condition yeah


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> What do I eat now?


You've been advertising the fact about your IDGAIIFYM diet :lol: you've been saying you basically eat what you want mate? Lots of biscuits etc... Most people cant do this would you not agree? I know if I eat a full pack of biscuits even within my set amount of calories I would still notice the difference and bloat a little... Maybe its because im not currently lean enough but doubt it will change.

Im not disagreeing with people about IIFYM but I defineltley think its get pushed down your throat on this forum by @TommyBananas at the end of the day its horses for courses do what the feck you want and if its works for you then great :thumb:


----------



## bail (Mar 19, 2010)

FelonE said:


> I'm naturally lean,had abs before I'd ever trained.
> 
> I believe I'd be in roughly the same condition yeah


Your case is very individual mate and Cant be used as a example

I could bench 100kg a age 16 but that's individual if it you see what I mean?

The average person would not grow eating like that

And you could grow a lot more effciently if someone took control of you diet also


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I'm naturally lean,had abs before I'd ever trained.
> 
> I believe I'd be in roughly the same condition yeah


I know you are, which is why I said yesterday I think your a bit of an exception :lol: You obviously put the effort in in the gym, probably similar to @PHMG

But you have previously said that when you bulked natty you got fat and cut natty you went back skinny so surely you have stated that AAS is helping you stay in the same condition? Or has helped...?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Fvcking pics won't show


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I'm naturally lean,had abs before I'd ever trained.
> 
> I believe I'd be in roughly the same condition yeah


Do you also not think that if your diet was completely controlled like you used to be either bulking or cutting you yield better results? Me asking a question by the way not having a pop :lol:

You first cycle when you added in Winny at the end your diet was very strict and I personally think that's when you transformed would you not say?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> I know you are, which is why I said yesterday I think your a bit of an exception :lol: You obviously put the effort in in the gym, probably similar to @PHMG
> 
> But you have previously said that when you bulked natty you got fat and cut natty you went back skinny so surely you have stated that AAS is helping you stay in the same condition? Or has helped...?


I bulked natty and got fat because I didn't care about getting fat. Once I'd cut and got lean I stayed lean. I wouldn't fat bulk now.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Im bowing out of any further discussions on it.

People can make their own minds up what they want to do.

I will just carry on looking awesome and if anyone wants any advice they can PM me.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Do you also not think that if your diet was completely controlled like you used to be either bulking or cutting you yield better results? Me asking a question by the way not having a pop :lol:
> 
> You first cycle when you added in Winny at the end your diet was very strict and I personally think that's when you transformed would you not say?


I'm only maintaining atm which I am so I don't need better results.

No pop taken

Yeah I got in good condition on that cut........was eating lots of biscuits too lol


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I don't even think I push it - I've always stated both ways of eating are perfectly fine - I just think too many people think they 'have' to eat clean or that IIFYM is eating junk food.
> 
> All I do is clear up the trash and tell people they're wrong


Fair enough mate, I do think you push it a little bit but some people push eating clean to much, although I did eat the @banzi diet for 12 days it worked wonders, don't get me wrong a lot is probably water but still look a lot better!

I personally don't mind IIFYM but I also don't mind Clean eating, I also don't agree that PRO's use IIFYM whatever they say as I know a few people who are at a high amateur level and they most certainly don't use IIFYM


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

banzi said:


> Im bowing out of any further discussions on it.
> 
> People can make their own minds up what they want to do.
> 
> I will just carry on looking awesome and if anyone wants any advice they can PM me.


 @TommyBananas - I think you should both take this stance now  :lol:


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

bail said:


> Your case is very individual mate and Cant be used as a example
> 
> I could bench 100kg a age 16 but that's individual if it you see what I mean?
> 
> ...


I don't think it is that individual, plenty of people would be able to eat crap and build big physiques when they're on PEDs but it's not optimum and if you could take identical twins one eating crap one eating clean, both on same PEDs and training regime the clean one would eventually have the better physique, mental clarity, strength and fitness. Pound for poud clean food has more vitamins, minerals and less crappy chemicals + trans fats. Clean food has more anti-oxidants and less free radicals than dirty food.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I'm only maintaining atm which I am so I don't need better results.
> 
> No pop taken
> 
> Yeah I got in good condition on that cut........was eating lots of biscuits too lol


Well I mean when you start your bulk again then mate, tbh youll probably have to eat lots of **** on your next cycle if your using tren as it seemed to be a great fat loss tool for you.... Fat lucky Tw*at :lol:


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Well I did, for like 12 pages I didn't reply as I know its pointless - but I brought a good post to the table


that's a first  I do also agree with you though that people don't always understand what IIFYM is and just think they can eat whatever they **** they like when really its 80 / 90% controlled and a few treats... the @FelonE IDGAFIIFYM is the diet which is crazy :lol:


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

bail said:


> Your case is very individual mate and Cant be used as a example
> 
> I could bench 100kg a age 16 but that's individual if it you see what I mean?
> 
> ...


People are talking specifically about me so I can be used as an example lol.

I'm not average :whistling:

I can take hold of my own diet,which I have,staying the same weight,staying as lean,staying as strong,eating what I want........what's to change?lol


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

BrahmaBull said:


> Your mindset is wrong, iifym doesn't mean you HAVE to eat the foods you have no self control with. It means you can enjoy meal variety


I can have meal variety with clean foods. I was under the impression IIFYM was a way of incorporating what you want to eat into a calorie allowance. Which lets face it: for most it means eating some form of junk food...

If it does mean meal variety then essentially I'm always using IIFYM. I eat a balanced diet and what I want when on maintenance calories or bulking. Its only when I cut that I cut out junk food and complex carbs altogether. Its just what works for me.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

GPRIM said:


> I can have meal variety with clean foods. I was under the impression IIFYM was a way of incorporating what you want to eat into a calorie allowance. Which lets face it: for most it means eating some form of junk food...
> 
> If it does mean meal variety then essentially I'm always using IIFYM. I eat a balanced diet and what I want when on maintenance calories or bulking. Its only when I cut that I cut out junk food and complex carbs altogether. Its just what works for me.


Iifym is tracking macros, the food selection is personal preference.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Well I mean when you start your bulk again then mate, tbh youll probably have to eat lots of **** on your next cycle if your using tren as it seemed to be a great fat loss tool for you.... Fat lucky Tw*at :lol:


On tren I was literally eating everything I could,felt sick most of the time thousands of calories,didn't get fat lol didn't hardly gain weight at all,got frustrated with it.

Maybe deca is next


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> On tren I was literally eating everything I could,felt sick most of the time thousands of calories,didn't get fat lol didn't hardly gain weight at all,got frustrated with it.
> 
> Maybe deca is next


Yes mate that's what I mean lol, think youll just get disheartened, as would I!

Deca or NPP?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Yes mate that's what I mean lol, think youll just get disheartened, as would I!
> 
> Deca or NPP?


I agree. I think I could cut extremely well on tren but for someone with my stupid metablolsm bulking is near impossible.

Umm not sure,maybe deca with an oral kick


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I agree. I think I could cut extremely well on tren but for someone with my stupid metablolsm bulking is near impossible.
> 
> Umm not sure,maybe deca with an oral kick


Get on Neuro Pharma Anadrol, mates using it and his strength is fecking crazy :lol:


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

That was Tren Mate, i believe you would not be able to follow IDGAFIIFYM on Deca.



FelonE said:


> On tren I was literally eating everything I could,felt sick most of the time thousands of calories,didn't get fat lol didn't hardly gain weight at all,got frustrated with it.
> 
> Maybe deca is next


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> That was Tren Mate, i believe you would not be able to follow IDGAFIIFYM on Deca.


No I'd probably watch my carbs but still not gonna count cals etc.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

A1243R said:


> Get on Neuro Pharma Anadrol, mates using it and his strength is fecking crazy :lol:


NP will be my next choice anyway lol


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> m
> 
> me
> 
> ...


Lol p1s of


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Then, i should start imaging you a lot bigger from now onwards.. :thumb:



FelonE said:


> No I'd probably watch my carbs but still not gonna count cals etc.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Then, i should start imaging you a lot bigger from now onwards.. :thumb:


But.........If sh1t isn't going to plan then I'll sort my diet out lol. I don't eat lots now or lots of crap,I'm just not tracking what I eat.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

A1243R said:


> Get on Neuro Pharma Anadrol, mates using it and his strength is fecking crazy


Currently on it now alongside NP NPP, size and strength creeping up all the time


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Beginners can misinterpret you statement and look like crap..lol. IMO,When an experienced lifter says he doesn't track food because all the calorie things are somewhere there in his subconscious mind and he knows at the back of the mind that he is eating somewhere near according to his goals.



FelonE said:


> But.........If sh1t isn't going to plan then I'll sort my diet out lol. I don't eat lots now or lots of crap,*I'm just not tracking what I eat*.


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

FelonE said:


> Are you sure? You seem to know my body well lol


I used you as the example as it was your post I'd just read.

I don't know your body obviously, but I'm guessing that you still don't know yours 100% just yet.

My point was basically stating that steroids will have played a substantial role in achieving your current condition with your present diet.

Unless you carried on the experiment for a further 2 years without any aas, but used your current IDGAFIIFYM then we could see.

Wasn't having a go mate, just used you as that example.

If you see my other posts you will see that I'm on a similar diet structure and you've also seen my before and after photos.

We aren't that dissimilar in terms of previous body condition to using aas and then chucking food down your neck but with 'rough guesstimates' to gain your current condition


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> Beginners can misinterpret you statement and look like crap..lol. IMO,When an experienced lifter says he doesn't track food because all the calorie things are somewhere there in his subconscious mind and he knows at the back of the mind that he is eating somewhere near according to his goals.


I wouldn't advise a beginner to do it.


----------



## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

I know.. :thumbup1:



FelonE said:


> I wouldn't advise a beginner to do it.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I know..1:


Lol.

This is a typical days foodfor me atm. Just so people see I'm not eating crap all day.

Breakfast. Bowl of muesli and a banana

Post workout. Varies but today was peanut butter/chocolate spread sandwich. Half a pack of Rich Tea

Shake/banana /peach

Normal evening meal

Banana /shake or big bar of chocolate or whatever I can find


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> I used you as the example as it was your post I'd just read.
> 
> I don't know your body obviously, but I'm guessing that you still don't know yours 100% just yet.
> 
> ...


I know you're not having a go mate. If my posts come across sh1tty I apologise lol.

I didn't get in my current condition eating this way I'm just maintaining it with it.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> I've never really asked - but the rich tea thing, what is the obsession? lol


They're the king of the dunkers lol

Plus their metabolism boosting properties


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Lol.
> 
> This is a typical days foodfor me atm. Just so people see I'm not eating crap all day.
> 
> ...


I think you will find that apart from the shakes that is crap all day

Why dont you eat your protein sources?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> I think you will find that apart from the shakes that is crap all day
> 
> Why dont you eat your protein sources?


How is that crap all day?

Peanut is protein, milk is protein and had lasagne last night,mince is protein


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> How is that crap all day?


You dont seem to be eating anything of substance.

What does your main meal consist of?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> Peaches have metabolism slowing properties and muesli will spike your insulin and kill you, m8.


Wouldn't surprise if that's what he says


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> You dont seem to be eating anything of substance.
> 
> What does your main meal consist of?


Lasagne and chips last night.

Shepherds pie the other night

Chips,tin ofbeans and 4 eggs the night before


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Just saying..

Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald'''s for six months - TODAY.com


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

FelonE said:


> I know you're not having a go mate. If my posts come across sh1tty I apologise lol.
> 
> I didn't get in my current condition eating this way I'm just maintaining it with it.


But looking at your example diet then surely 'long term' it isn't going to be manageable.

Even you can agree that the diet posted isn't very good for someone in the bb/fitness/physique world

Most (99%+ - guess) would eventually whether on aas or not would soon change shape for the worse


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> Im bowing out of any further discussions on it.
> 
> People can make their own minds up what they want to do.
> 
> I will just carry on looking awesome and if anyone wants any advice they can PM me.


Pussy


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> But looking at your example diet then surely 'long term' it isn't going to be manageable.
> 
> Even you can agree that the diet posted isn't very good for someone in the bb/fitness/physique world
> 
> Most (99%+ - guess) would eventually whether on aas or not would soon change shape for the worse


It's not a long term thing for me. Just while I'm maintaining.

I'm not saying everyone should do this and I don't do it very often, just having a break atm.

If I was cutting I wouldn't be eating like this.

I can maintain my current condition with this way at the moment, probably not for too long though.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Open Question Time

If you were fairly lean etc and you could keep that condition for a while by not tracking cals/macros and just managing your portions would you?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If he wanted to lose weight he'd drop calories, if he wanted to gain weight he'd eat more.
> 
> *He'd have to pay more attention to his macro split but nothing more*.


Really, why?


----------



## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Just saying..
> 
> Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald'''s for six months - TODAY.com


Sometimes I have been stuck in strange parts of the world I would eat McDonald's for 3-4 days. My poos are really good (compared to my normal diet).


----------



## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> King of the dunkers is milk chocolate digestives mate..


This proves you do not know what your talking about. Dark chocolate is the top option


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Armitage Shanks said:


> Sometimes I have been stuck in strange parts of the world I would eat McDonald's for 3-4 days. My poos are really good (compared to my normal diet).


Turds are the food you ate yesterday that the body could utilise.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Because I don't know how much protein, carbs, and fats he is getting from the foods he has listed
> 
> At no point in the existence of my use of this forum have I ever said macros do not matter; for muscle retention, hormone regulation, etc.
> 
> ...


But he could either cut out a shake or cut out his biscuits, why would it matter about the macros, as long as he cuts calories the macros are irrelevant.

Thats thermodynamics at work.


----------



## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

banzi said:


> Turds are the food you ate yesterday that the body could utilise.


Most times I do not have much option with the choice of foods on offer. Sometimes my bumhole is red raw and a solid poo is always welcomed...


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> I don't think it is that individual, plenty of people would be able to eat crap and build big physiques when they're on PEDs but it's not optimum and if you could take identical twins one eating crap one eating clean, both on same PEDs and training regime the clean one would eventually have the better physique, mental clarity, strength and fitness. Pound for poud clean food has more vitamins, minerals and less crappy chemicals + trans fats. Clean food has more anti-oxidants and less free radicals than dirty food.


Depends how varied the "clean" diet was. As if we limit our food choices we also are limiting our micronutrient intake.

"crappy chemicals", that do no harm to our body btw. Sounds like you follow "food babe", where everything is toxic.

No one eats junk 100% of the time, Felone doesn't, he does eat some whole foods, how much i don't know.

Now listen, I've switched out some complex carbs, for simple carbs, my body composition has not changed.

Before you claim AAS are the reason, I used to eat 3 meals a day with 50g maltodextrin (simple carb), for about 10 years whilst natty. I was always lean, always.


----------



## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Open Question Time
> 
> If you were fairly lean etc and you could keep that condition for a while by not tracking cals/macros and just managing your portions would you?


Of course, but were not all as lucky as you :lol: I think @simonthepieman does something similar... he may of let it slip whilst being on holiday though :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Sure if he wanted to lose weight and potentially lose more muscle if his protein intake was not adequate.


adequate protein is a matter of opinion not a matter of fact.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> But we have studies to show us below certain intakes in athletes or resistance trainees there is muscle loss,


so in your opinion based on the culmination of all these studies what is the minimum amount of protein a 200lb man should take in?


----------



## Dan TT (May 9, 2012)

I wonder how many IIFYM debates UKM has had in the last 6 month


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

What'd you make of the McDOnalds guy Banzi?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> so in your opinion based on the culmination of all these studies what is the minimum amount of protein a 200lb man should take in?


Bout one sixty


----------



## GPRIM (Mar 21, 2011)

Dan TT said:


> I wonder how many IIFYM debates UKM has had in the last 6 month


Not as many as there has been Zyzz threads!!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> What'd you make of the McDOnalds guy Banzi?


LLS


----------



## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

FelonE said:


> Open Question Time
> 
> If you were fairly lean etc and you could keep that condition for a while by not tracking cals/macros and just managing your portions would you?


Yes and I do.

I personally have no need of going to extremes or restricting a lot of foods just to keep in 'shape'

Bulk time = Eat more

Cut = Eat less

The stricter you are the better the results for both, BUT for me the mental anguish would mean I wouldn't enjoy it and would fail quickly.

I'll weigh myself once a fortnight to give me an idea of where I am and use the mirror also.

I will usually spend an hour playing around with MFP with daily meal plans and ideas and then have that as my rough guide to see what daily macros would average.

Do I falter, yes I do but try to keep things sensible.

A lot of this debate revolves solely on how great a condition you actually want to achieve, and how much commitment and sacrifice your prepared to put in for it


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> In a deficit? There was muscle loss all the way upto 3.1g per kg I believe.
> 
> I think this is the paper not got time to check properly atm not that you'll read it - Evidence-based recommendations for natural bodybuilding contest preparation: nutrition and supplementation


Thats not what I asked and I didnt ask for a link either, I can find them myself

Try again

Whats the MINIMUM amout of protein a 200lb man should take in?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> In a deficit? In a surplus?
> 
> I don't have a definitive answer for either. Only recommendations.
> 
> ...


So 1.5gms for a 200lb man.

Thanks


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I myself would consider that in a deficit too much from my own personal experience, but it doesn't matter what I think it matters what science shows.


So you have a guy at 5ft 5 and 8% BF at 200lbs on 300gms of protein and a guy at 6ft 3 at 200lbs and 20%BF both on 300gms

Odd, but its your method so I suppose its fine.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Don't think Tommy is being very clear @banzi

3.1g per kg lean mass is the upper limit according to studies in a deficit.

So 200lb man at what bodyfat?


----------



## Fortunatus (Apr 12, 2013)

banzi said:


> So 1.5gms for a 200lb man.
> 
> Thanks


300g protein for a 200lb man, I'm 200 on the dot without having umpteen protein shakes a day I could never hit 300g protein?!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> Don't think Tommy is being very clear @banzi
> 
> 3.1g per kg lean mass is the upper limit according to studies in a deficit.
> 
> So 200lb man at what bodyfat?


One post too late mate, hes already given his advice.

I thought Tommy would have asked about LBM.

He didnt did he?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Fortunatus said:


> 300g protein for a 200lb man, I'm 200 on the dot without having umpteen protein shakes a day I could never hit 300g protein?!


LBM makes a huge difference, Tommy didnt seem to consider it when he gave his advice.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> One post too late mate, hes already given his advice.
> 
> I thought Tommy would have asked about LBM.
> 
> He didnt did he?


You did twist it a little tho, you asked for minimum but took the top of the range he posted lol


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> *I'd have the fatter guy on less; *and as pointed out in the study there is a range, just recommendations. You're talking in absolutes, as always, again.
> 
> And in my post as always, adjust as needed.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> Depends how varied the "clean" diet was. As if we limit our food choices we also are limiting our micronutrient intake.
> 
> "crappy chemicals", that do no harm to our body btw. Sounds like you follow "food babe", where everything is toxic.
> 
> ...


You don't think the chemicals in food affect health?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> You did twist it a little tho, you asked for minimum but took the top of the range he posted lol


Irrelevant, he totally disregarded LBM

Hes mentioned it now of course.

PS my troll started here



banzi said:


> Really, why?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> It depends on the severity of the deficit, too. It depends on their LBM as you pointed out, how long someone has been dieting.


Great, everyone knows this, but you failed to take it into account when giving me advice.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Yeah because you definitely want the advice


Just be more careful in future, you never know, you may want to write a book on it at some point


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> You don't think the chemicals in food affect health?


Do you have a chemical in mind?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> Yes and I do.
> 
> I personally have no need of going to extremes or restricting a lot of foods just to keep in 'shape'
> 
> ...


Totally agree,we're doing very similar things.

If I choose deca for my next blast then I'll probably allow 1000 cals or so for my main meal and sort the rest of my cals out like I would normally.

It's a lot easier to maintain my look atm than it was to get it.


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

My name has been quoted so I'll post.

I don't follow IIFYM for 2 reasons.

1. I've no idea what my macros are.

2. I've no inclination to work them out. Haha.

I just eat whatever when I'm hungry and train hard in the gym. The rest falls into place itself.


----------



## barsnack (Mar 12, 2011)

PHMG said:


> My name has been quoted so I'll post.
> 
> I don't follow IIFYM for 2 reasons.
> 
> ...


does that not change when your cutting? as your likely always hungry


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

PHMG said:


> My name has been quoted so I'll post.
> 
> I don't follow IIFYM for 2 reasons.
> 
> ...


My man lol


----------



## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

barsnack said:


> does that not change when your cutting? as your likely always hungry


No. I train more and do extra cardio. I'd rather work more than cut food. Low calories is just not an option I consider. No reason you shouldn't be reasonably lean anyway if your training hard. And this applies when natural or enhanced


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

@PHMG is the person that inspired my current way of eating.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> Do you have a chemical in mind?


Nearly all food colourings and preservatives


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

ellisrimmer said:


> Nearly all food colourings and preservatives


Post up your diet


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> Nearly all food colourings and preservatives


https://badscidebunked.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/food-babe-slams-kraft-over-three-dyes-but-sells-same/


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

BrahmaBull said:


> Post up your diet


Why?



Dark sim said:


> https://badscidebunked.wordpress.com/2015/02/16/food-babe-slams-kraft-over-three-dyes-but-sells-same/


What is this?


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I have to count my calories. I love food too much, always have done (though I've never been fat  ) and I could quite easily eat 6000-7000kcal some days depending on what I fancy eating on the day. Good thing is, I've always had a good idea as to what my maintenance is and how much calories I need to add or drop depending on my goal - for example, on my recent cutting cycle, I was aiming for 3lbs of loss per week whilst retaining muscle, and I pretty much lost 3lbs every week for 10 weeks after the initial big drop in water weight, by making sure I was eating a certain amount as well as messing with my T3 dose based on where I thought my current TDEE was... so you could say I not only had a good idea of where my TDEE was at but also got a good idea as to how certain doses of T3 affect my metabolic rate. This type of approach suits me down to the ground tbh, I've always been analytical and prefer sticking to a plan rather than winging it, but that's me and my nature.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> I have to count my calories. I love food too much' date=' always have done (though I've never been fat  ) [b']and I could quite easily eat 6000-7000kcal some days depending on what I fancy eating on the day. Good thing is, I've always had a good idea as to what my maintenance is and how much calories I need to add or drop depending on my goal - for example, on my recent cutting cycle, I was aiming for 3lbs of loss per week whilst retaining muscle, and I pretty much lost 3lbs every week for 10 weeks after the initial big drop in water weight, by making sure I was eating a certain amount as well as *messing with my T3 dose* based on where I thought my current TDEE was... so you could say I not only had a good idea of where my TDEE was at but also got a good idea as to how certain doses of T3 affect my metabolic rate. This type of approach suits me down to the ground tbh, I've always been analytical and prefer sticking to a plan rather than winging it, but that's me and my nature.


why are you taking T3?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I'd have the fatter guy on less; and as pointed out in the study there is a range, just recommendations. You're talking in absolutes, as always, again.
> 
> And in my post as always, adjust as needed.


so you would advocate less than the scientific studies suggest is advisable?

Im shocked.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> Why?
> 
> What is this?


Read it, you might learn something


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> why are you taking T3?


Why wouldn't I be, is the question? Not quite sure as to why you've highlighted those two pieces of text there.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> Read it, you might learn something


Am I missing something? it's simply an article criticising somebody for double standards because they sell products with chemicals despite campaigning against them 'food babe'.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> Am I missing something? it's simply an article criticising somebody for double standards because they sell products with chemicals despite campaigning against them 'food babe'.


It's about food colourings. I'm not fussed if you read or actually educate yourself properly on the matter. People like you do pi$$ me off when you scaremonger about BS like this. And you sound just like 'food babe', is it a pseudnym?

And he asked for you your diet as I guess it will contain food colouring and preservatives, unless you are a fruitarian lol?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

ellisrimmer said:


> Am I missing something? it's simply an article criticising somebody for double standards because they sell products with chemicals despite campaigning against them 'food babe'.


Scroll down to the next article


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Why wouldn't I be' date=' is the question? Not quite sure as to why you've highlighted those two pieces of text there.[/quote']
> 
> eating 7.000 cals a day yet taking T3
> 
> ...


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> eating 7.000 cals a day yet taking T3
> 
> Dont take T3 and eat a bit less.
> 
> Why take a drug when you literally dont need it?


I didn't say I DO eat up to 7000 a day, I said I COULD but obviously doing so would see my getting fat in a hurry; hence the whole reason why I don't just free-ball it with my caloric intake and instead stick to a certain number as I already talked about. Try reading more carefully next time old fella


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Dark sim said:


> It's about food colourings. I'm not fussed if you read or actually educate yourself properly on the matter. People like you do pi$$ me off when you scaremonger about BS like this. And you sound just like 'food babe', is it a pseudnym?
> 
> And he asked for you your diet as I guess it will contain food colouring and preservatives, unless you are a fruitarian lol?


It's not about food colourings its about a doll who is selling stuff with them in despite advocating against them, it doesn't really go into depth about whether food colourings are good and bad it just mentions a few and at the end the author clarifies he's not an expert and that he was just pointing out her double standards. I've never heard of this food babe before. It's hardly anything new though, lots of countries have banned sunset yellow for instance. Which I know if I have it I get weezy. So I think best practice is to try and avoid them as much as possible-people like you annoy me as well! for getting overly angry over a simple debate, you shouldn't be getting so pee'd off or anything, chill out. I'm merely suggesting that people should avoid chemicals to improve their health! i'm not trying to harm you lol



FelonE said:


> Scroll down to the next article


Link it I dunno if the wrong one has been linked


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

A1243R said:


> Of course, but were not all as lucky as you  I think @simonthepieman does something similar... he may of let it slip whilst being on holiday though


DAT dere moussaka gains


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> I didn't say I DO eat up to 7000 a day' date=' I said I COULD but obviously doing so would see my getting fat in a hurry; hence the whole reason why I don't just free-ball it with my caloric intake and instead stick to a certain number as I already talked about. Try reading more carefully next time old fella  [/quote']
> 
> Ah, right so the 7,000 cals a day was just an off the cuff remark and in reality you may only manage it for a day.
> 
> ...


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Ah, right so the 7,000 cals a day was just an off the cuff remark and in reality you may only manage it for a day.
> 
> You did also say you had never been fat so in reality you have never really been a big eater.
> 
> Gotcha.


Yes mate, on some days the 4000 a day I eat is very easy, and if I just ate when hungry until I was full as opposed to counting calories I'd probably end up consuming close to 7000 yeah. My appetite isn't like this every day of course and that's why I probably never went above 15% bodyfat ever in my life before I started lifting. Also combine that with the fact that I used to snack on crisps and sweets all day and only had a couple of big meals a day, cue "You're that person we all know that eats qhat he wants and can never put on weight" comments by those around me :lol:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Yes mate' date=' on some days the 4000 a day I eat is very easy, and if I just ate when hungry until I was full as opposed to counting calories I'd probably end up consuming close to 7000 yeah. My appetite isn't like this every day of course and that's why I probably never went above 15% bodyfat ever in my life before I started lifting. Also combine that with the fact that I used to snack on crisps and sweets all day and only had a couple of big meals a day, cue [b']"You're that person we all know that eats qhat he wants and can never put on weight" comments by those around me :lol:


That person doesnt exist, anyone who overeats gets fat, metabolisms dont vary that much, you find people with a "fast metabolism" seem to be very active as opposed to sitting around.


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

banzi said:


> That person doesnt exist, anyone who overeats gets fat, metabolisms dont vary that much, you find people with a "fast metabolism" seem to be very active as opposed to sitting around.


Between the ages of 13-18 my mate used to sit in and eat junk food all evening after school playing on playstation and would never put on a pound


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Between the ages of 13-18 my mate used to sit in and eat junk food all evening after school playing on playstation and would never put on a pound


did you sit in with him every night?


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

banzi said:


> That person doesnt exist, anyone who overeats gets fat, metabolisms dont vary that much, you find people with a "fast metabolism" seem to be very active as opposed to sitting around.


Lately I've agreed with most things you say but this is utter rubbish. Of course metabolism varies. That's a stupid comment to say the least


----------



## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> Between the ages of 13-18 my mate used to sit in and eat junk food all evening after school playing on playstation and would never put on a pound


I was extremely thin until I was 20 and I ate huge amounts. I agree with you...


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

banzi said:


> did you sit in with him every night?


No, but we would play online for most nights together.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> That person doesnt exist, anyone who overeats gets fat, metabolisms dont vary that much, you find people with a "fast metabolism" seem to be very active as opposed to sitting around.


Well, fast metabolisms certainly exist - we all have varying levels of thyroid hormones circulating throughout our bodies so we all have different TDEEs. But yeah, if you eat at or below that TDEE, you don't lose weight, and those that are labelled "eats loads but is unable to gain weight" in general just snack all day on crisps and chocolate bars. Considering most chocolate bars and packets of crisps have less than 150 calories each, anyone with a decent metabolism could eat up to, say, 20 packets of crisps per day and still not put on weight, it's just where we're incorrectly taught that crisps are inherently fattening and a lack of nutritional knowledge that makes people believe that some people genuinely will never put on weight, which as we all know here is never the case.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

banzi said:


> That person doesnt exist, anyone who overeats gets fat, metabolisms dont vary that much, you find people with a "fast metabolism" seem to be very active as opposed to sitting around.


yeh I know a lad who says that but after living with him a year he clearly barely eats, however he thinks he's ramming himself


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

TommyBananas said:


> This is what IIFYM is.
> 
> Clean eating: Chicken, Rice, Vegeteables
> 
> ...


That example is potentially misleading to the many who still don't 'get' IIFYM.

If the only change to a day's food that met macro targets was to replace rice with ice cream this would NOT be IIFYM. In order to be IIFYM food intake across the rest of the day would need to be adjusted, most notably to account for the significantly greater fat content of ice cream than rice.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

TommyBananas said:


> It was just a quick examplee which is why I almost wrote sorbet instead of ice cream.
> 
> If people don't understand IIFYM, they're a colossal idiot.


These sweeping statements don't do you any favours


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> It was just a quick examplee which is why I almost wrote sorbet instead of ice cream.
> 
> If people don't understand IIFYM, they're a colossal idiot.


I hope you never write a book

You change your mind by the hour.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> *I am past the point of really caring*; I can see quite a few people have done their own research, and a few people have tried it and found it works just the same, I'll take it.
> 
> Aside from that:


So is everyone else mate, you are a dumpy little stump, always will be

You have the fat gene in spades, and you have 'Beadle hands"


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

TommyBananas said:


> It was just a quick examplee which is why I almost wrote sorbet instead of ice cream.
> 
> If people don't understand IIFYM, they're a colossal idiot.


Just wanted to make it clear as sadly many still seem to confuse 'If It Fits Your Macros' with 'If It Fits Your Daily Calorie Target', and the point of your post seemed to be to clarify what IIFYM is.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> My mind has not changed, lol - I just didn't go into every little detail, it's common sense is it not?
> 
> Ice cream contains fat; therefore if you removed rice, for Ice Cream, you'd need fat allowance left over - or you'd have to eat less fat later.
> 
> Stfu.


Alternatively you would just eat the rice and not have to mess about tapping an app and banging your head like Rainman.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> Alternatively you would just eat the rice and not have to mess about tapping an app and banging your head like Rainman.


Just eat both

Amirite @FelonE


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Well, at least I am stronger than you'll ever be and I've got plenty of years to look better than you as a side effect of being strong. :lol:


I have no interest in being strong, if i want to lift something heavy I will get a labourer or a fork lift.

As for having years on me, Im where I am despite the years, you on the other hand were a fat kid, now you are a chubby youth and in two years you will be a fat man.

You wont maintain anything, the fact that you are not strong willed enough to stick to a diet is crystal clear.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If anyone who uses this forum in the last six months; doesn't understand what IIFYM is now though, *dey stoopid*.


There you go again.


----------



## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

TommyBananas said:


> Well, at least I am stronger than you'll ever be and I've got plenty of years to look better than you as a side effect of being strong. :lol:


How old are you? Oh, and why do you always insult people in most threads you participate in?

Do you speak to people like that when face to face?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> I have no interest in being strong, if i want to lift something heavy I will get a labourer or a fork lift.
> 
> As for having years on me, Im where I am despite the years, you on the other hand were a fat kid, now you are a chubby youth and in two years you will be a fat man.
> 
> You wont maintain anything, the fact that you are not strong willed enough to stick to a diet is crystal clear.


You don't think strength is important in bodybuilding?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Just wanted to make it clear as sadly many still seem to confuse 'If It Fits Your Macros' with 'If It Fits Your Daily Calorie Target', and the point of your post seemed to be to clarify what IIFYM is.


When I do track my food it's does it fit my calorie requirement not macros


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

dt36 said:


> How old are you? Oh, and why do you always insult people in most threads you participate in?
> 
> Do you speak to people like that when face to face?


Tbf he gets called out all the time,people trying to wind him up constantly. I'd be insulting too.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> There you go again.


You're just as bad. Constantly trying to antagonize people. Bit sad at your age really. Been watching too much One Foot In The Grave.


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> Taht has just reminded me of that program; Keeping Up Appearances, with mrs Bucket.. fuaaa.. what a great program that was lol.


Mrs Booquet lol


----------



## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

FelonE said:


> Tbf he gets called out all the time,people trying to wind him up constantly. I'd be insulting too.


Well he answered my questions honestly, so no complaints from me.

What I reckon could set this thread back on the play nice together scenario is to see 2 sample diets at a set point of 2500kcals. One clean as a whistle and the other containing the non traditional diet staples that follow the IIFYM school of thought. Then people can try it out for themselves and give their opinion, having had the opportunity to try both.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> You don't think strength is important in bodybuilding?


No, not at all.

Define strong?


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

TommyBananas said:


> If anyone who uses this forum in the last six months; doesn't understand what IIFYM is now though, dey stoopid.


Christ I've seen people here for years who still don't understand the basics


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dt36 said:


> Well he answered my questions honestly, so no complaints from me.
> 
> What I reckon could set this thread back on the play nice together scenario is to see 2 sample diets at a set point of 2500kcals. One clean as a whistle and the other containing the non traditional diet staples that follow the IIFYM school of thought. Then people can try it out for themselves and give their opinion, having had the opportunity to try both.


You can do an IIFMM diet and you can do my diet and not even count cals and I guarantee you will be in shape faster than IIFMM diet by weeks.


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Guineapigs required i think..?


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> As long as you get a decent amount of protein, isn't really that important anyway; as carbs and fats are preferences for the most part. Obviously higher carb diets aree usually useful due to extra energy; but for body composition purposes, it's all cool.
> 
> Dorian Yates talked about just making sure he hit calories and protein intake.


So could i drink protein shakes , hit my protein quota then just bump my cals up with haribo and cakes ? What would happen ?


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> If you didn't get enough fat (unlikely) your hormone regulation could suffer. You'd have to eat a really strange diet to get so little fat.
> 
> Your health would suffer long term.
> 
> Such a strange question to ask


How would it effect hormone regulation, what would happen ?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

banzi said:


> No, not at all.
> 
> Define strong?


Well see all the time that you should do fullbody routines or upper lower unless you can bench 2 plates aside, squat 3 a side and dead 4 a side


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FelonE said:


> When I do track my food it's does it fit my calorie requirement not macros


Which is a perfectly decent approach to follow, but it is different to IIFYM. I think IIFYM has the potential to give better results but it is more work.


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

How to lose fat for Noobs - Part II - Bodybuilding.com Forums

A nice basic approach


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> As long as you get a decent amount of protein, isn't really that important anyway; as carbs and fats are preferences for the most part. Obviously higher carb diets aree usually useful due to extra energy; but for body composition purposes, it's all cool.
> 
> *Dorian Yates talked about just making sure he hit calories and protein intake*.


Dorian was meticulous about his diet, I know for a fact he made someone pull a car over on the motorway so he could get food out of the boot because it was time to eat.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Research what happens if you eat a low fat diet for too long.
> 
> One of the main points (for naturals) is the testosterone production; also we need EFA's anyway, hence the name essential. So a diet low in fat, or minimal fat would be getting none.


It says heart problems, negative effects on cholesterol and tricyleriglides are some of the problems. yet low fat diets were promoted as being a good thing in the past.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

BrahmaBull said:


> Well see all the time that you should do fullbody routines or upper lower unless you can bench 2 plates aside, squat 3 a side and dead 4 a side


Do we?

I have never squatted 3 plates a side in my life

Would my mrs have to make those lifts before she was allowed to do any specific bodywork?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> During competition prep; the video RIGHT here he says what he did - whether that was all the time, sometime its irrelevant he said it was DURING prep and that he counted calories; and made sure he got enough protein. Now I can't even tell if you're disagreeing with me or just replying for the sake of.. replying.


go and listen to it again


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Ultrasonic said:


> Which is a perfectly decent approach to follow, but it is different to IIFYM. I think IIFYM has the potential to give better results but it is more work.


I know it's different to IIFYM because I don't track macros lol


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Low fat diets are still; being promoted as a good thing.
> 
> But we have to look at what is 'low' fat - low(er) fat diets are good because they are lower in calories, as fat is 9kcals per gram, and protein and carb are 4.
> 
> But fat is good for us, and very important for women too due to their periods, etc - it can fvck up their body pretty badly.


Low fat stuff is mostly bought by women as its an easy way to cut calories, do you think the added sugar in these products could prove to be a health problem in the long run ?


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:



> Do we?
> 
> I have never squatted 3 plates a side in my life
> 
> Would my mrs have to make those lifts before she was allowed to do any specific bodywork?


Damn, I'm 2.25 plates in. Looks like generation nothingness is going to be stronger than you :beer:


----------



## Nath88 (Feb 28, 2015)

banzi said:


> You can do an IIFMM diet and you can do my diet and not even count cals and I guarantee you will be in shape faster than IIFMM diet by weeks.





dt36 said:


> Well he answered my questions honestly, so no complaints from me.
> 
> What I reckon could set this thread back on the play nice together scenario is to see 2 sample diets at a set point of 2500kcals. One clean as a whistle and the other containing the non traditional diet staples that follow the IIFYM school of thought. Then people can try it out for themselves and give their opinion, having had the opportunity to try both.





andyboro said:


> Guineapigs required i think..?


I would be happy to be a Guinea Pig for a few months :bounce:

Anybody else ?


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Nath88 said:


> I would be happy to be a Guinea Pig for a few months :bounce:
> 
> Anybody else ?


Yep


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Damn, I'm 2.25 plates in. Looks like generation nothingness is going to be stronger than you :beer:


Good for you, although when you are siting round the pool on holiday no ones working out your squat prowess.


----------



## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

banzi said:


> Good for you, although when you are siting round the pool on holiday no ones working out your squat prowess.


Fact!


----------



## Nath88 (Feb 28, 2015)

andyboro said:


> Yep


Noice.


----------



## Nath88 (Feb 28, 2015)

andyboro said:


> Yep


Noice.

EDIT - Wupps


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> go and listen to it again


What are we listening for?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

> What are we listening for?


"When I did my first contest"

He ate like that because he was green, once he got serious he got serious.


----------



## Jalex (Nov 16, 2014)

banzi said:


> Good for you, although when you are siting round the pool on holiday no ones working out your squat prowess.


Indeed. But I don't lift for others


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Jalex said:


> Indeed. But I don't lift for others


Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> "When I did my first contest"
> 
> He ate like that because he was green, once he got serious he got serious.


Not quite. He was simply recalling the first time he started dieting for a contest and people were saying he was crazy for eating his chocolate bars. If he didn't believe in the approach still, he wouldn't then go on to justify it in the same video. Also, as he says in his very own book "The guys at the gym would tell me I couldn't do that. These were the people who had trained four or five times longer than I had, but my research about nutrition told me they were wrong. The contest results proved them wrong too".


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Not quite. He was simply recalling the first time he started dieting for a contest and people were saying he was crazy for eating his chocolate bars. If he didn't believe in the approach still' date=' he wouldn't then go on to justify it in the same video. Also, as he says in his very own book "The guys at the gym would tell me I couldn't do that. These were the people who had trained four or five times longer than I had, but my research about nutrition told me they were wrong. The contest results proved them wrong too".[/quote']
> 
> Look mate I know someone who travelled with him and spent time with him, he ate foods at exactly the same time of the day every day, he planned everything in minute detail.
> 
> A physio once travelled to his house to treat him and during the treatment Dorian just got up and walked out, he was missing for a while and the physio said to his wife "Wheres Dorian", she just said, "hes gone for his nap, he always goes at this time"


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Look mate I know someone who travelled with him and spent time with him, he ate foods at exactly the same time of the day every day, he planned everything in minute detail.
> 
> A physio once travelled to his house to treat him and during the treatment Dorian just got up and walked out, he was missing for a while and the physio said to his wife "Wheres Dorian", she just said, "hes gone for his nap, he always goes at this time"


Yes mate, I'm one of Dorian's biggest fans, read everything he's written, watched all his interviews and seminars, yada yada - I'm more than aware of his obsession with meal timings being on point (he believed in eating every few hours and liked to stick to specific meal times, which would take priority over everything), and making sure he had enough hours of sleep a day including naps. However, he's said a million times over, that as long as the majority of your foods are of good quality then the odd bit of crap isn't going to hinder your results one bit. He was also a firm believer in having a complete "junk food day" once a week.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

He done the chocolate bar thing as a joke, a gimmick to wind his competitors up. look at the glint in his eye when he tells the story. He was taking the p1ss out of them. IMO


----------



## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Natty Steve said:


> He done the chocolate bar thing as a joke' date=' a gimmick to wind his competitors up. look at the glint in his eye when he tells the story. He was taking the p1ss out of them. IMO[/quote']
> 
> Look at the glint in his eye? You having a moment?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Yes mate' date=' I'm one of Dorian's biggest fans, read everything he's written, watched all his interviews and seminars, yada yada - I'm more than aware of his obsession with meal timings being on point (he believed in eating every few hours and liked to stick to specific meal times, which would take priority over everything), and making sure he had enough hours of sleep a day including naps. However, he's said a million times over, that as long as the majority of your foods are of good quality then the odd bit of crap isn't going to hinder your results one bit. He was also a firm believer in having a complete "junk food day" once a week.[/quote']
> 
> He used to say the reason I am the best is because I put in the most effort, thats why he never gave Flex Wheeler a second thought, he knew Flex wasn't as committed and dedicated as him.
> 
> ...


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Natty Steve said:


> He done the chocolate bar thing as a joke' date=' a gimmick to wind his competitors up. look at the glint in his eye when he tells the story. He was taking the p1ss out of them. IMO[/quote']
> 
> Yeah, there was probably a glint in his eye as he wrote about it in his books as well :whistling:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Yeah' date=' there was probably a glint in his eye as he wrote about it in his books as well :whistling: [/quote']
> 
> He also tells stories about aliens running the planet and the Holocaust not happening, hes wrote about it as well.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> He used to say the reason I am the best is because I put in the most effort, thats why he never gave Flex Wheeler a second thought, he knew Flex wasn't as committed and dedicated as him.
> 
> So bearing in mind how meticulous he is and how much he used to talk about doing everything possible to be the best you also think he sat there scoffing Mars bars.
> 
> Seems reasonable.


Well since it's come out of his own mouth a hundred times, yes, because as he says, doing so will not negatively affect your results when compared to eating something supposedly more "ideal". If he believed for one second that it would, then you can bet he wouldn't have done it.


----------



## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> He also tells stories about aliens running the planet and the Holocaust not happening, hes wrote about it as well.


Wow @ the latter


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> He also tells stories about aliens running the planet and the Holocaust not happening, hes wrote about it as well.


So if you don't value his opinion, why try and use it (albeit inaccurately) in your debate???


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> So if you don't value his opinion' date=' why try and use it (albeit inaccurately) in your debate???[/quote']
> 
> Im not valuing his opinion, I am relating things I know that other people have verified about him.
> 
> He was at the top of his game for 6 years, do you seriously believe he was eating like tommy bananas?


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Im not valuing his opinion, I am relating things I know that other people have verified about him.
> 
> He was at the top of his game for 6 years, do you seriously believe he was eating like tommy bananas?


Well, even with that, you're still taking what they've said and misconstruing it to mean something else (for example, his meticulous meal timings have no correlation as to whether or not he ate a bit of junk food) and I don't see how you can argue with pieces of text from his very own literature. But it's clear you're past the point in your life where you're still able to learn new information so you crack on mate


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> Well' date=' even with that, you're still taking what they've said and misconstruing it to mean something else (for example, his meticulous meal timings have no correlation as to whether or not he ate a bit of junk food) and I don't see [b']how you can argue with pieces of text from his very own literature. But it's clear you're past the point in your life where you're still able to learn new information so you crack on mate


Guy wants to sell books, people dont want to hear that they have to eat chicken and rice for 10 weeks, they want to hear its easy , you can eat what you like within reason.

Thats exactly why IIFMM is so popular.

Simple doesnt sell.


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Guy wants to sell books, people dont want to hear that they have to eat chicken and rice for 10 weeks, they want to hear its easy , you can eat what you like within reason.
> 
> Thats exactly why IIFMM is so popular.
> 
> Simple doesnt sell.


He's said the exact same thing at his seminars and interviews too. People are buying his books because they want to follow the same approach he did, not because it's easy (his training regimens are far from). I don't see what's simple about restricting yourself to all the most boring foods known to man, but as I've said in this thread, people should just stick to what works well for them.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

I said:


> He's said the exact same thing at his seminars and interviews too. People are buying his books because they want to follow the same approach he did' date=' not because it's easy (his training regimens are far from). [b']I don't see what's simple about restricting yourself to all the most boring foods known to man, but as I've said in this thread, people should just stick to what works well for them.


Really?

Its the simplest method of all


----------



## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

banzi said:


> Really?
> 
> Its the simplest method of all


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

FelonE said:


> I know it's different to IIFYM because I don't track macros lol


Sorry, wasn't meaning to suggest you didn't!


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

I eat the same thing almost day in day out.

4.40am - coffee with single cream

5am -Train

PWO - 2 scoops isolate + Glut, Husks, Taurine + various tabs

10am - 6 boiled eggs

Lunchtime - 300g chicken + 30g peanut butter

Afternoon - snack of chicken, fish, some nuts, etc.

Dinner - 300g chicken + 30g peanut butter

Snack - homemade protein bar with vitafibre and isolate.

Supper (if hungry) - varies but can be nuts, meat+ cheese, etc.

I eat this almost every day and i honestly love it. Now last night the family were getting a takeaway so i had a 10" garlic pizza bread + my chicken. That let me join in and enjoy something with them.

The other night i had a big slice of nutella cheesecake. To me thats flexible dieting. I eat relatively clean from whole food sources 95% of the time and knowing that means i can have a treat now and then without even worrying about it as the effect will be minimal other than perhaps a temporary 1-2lb water gain due to increased carbs.

Now i dont feel restricted as im eating what i enjoy. Im not bro dieting as im not sitting down to chicken and veg every night amd feeling im missing out. I eat high protein and fat is over 100g. Carbs are less that 30g most days unless cheating.

Its about finding quality whole foods you enjoy and sticking by them but knowing if you want that little treat you can have it. For me its not every day but perhaps once or twice a week.

I have a tub of peanut butter ben and jerrys and that may get smashed sometime soon too. Not a single **** will be given.


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

I see a lot of people bending the data to their beliefs rather than bringing it all together objectively


----------



## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

DC1 said:


> I eat the same thing almost day in day out.
> 
> 4.40am - coffee with single cream
> 
> ...


You have my attention!

Where would I find such heavenly glory?


----------



## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

DC1 said:


> I eat the same thing almost day in day out.
> 
> 4.40am - coffee with single cream
> 
> ...


You dont eat carbs??


----------



## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

These guys are stage ready using IIFYM, do you agree Banzi?


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> These guys are stage ready using IIFYM, do you agree Banzi?
> 
> View attachment 172181
> View attachment 172182


That first bloke looks like decaprio

These threads are so fvcking boring now, surely someone can come up with something original to get people going


----------



## jason7474utd (Oct 12, 2010)

i think a lot of people who say no pros follow if it fits your macros need to relaise what iifym actually is its not the poptart eating, beer swilling ill eat anything as long as it fits the number thats all over social media.

Of course all the pros follow iifym they have a coach who will work out what they need to take in in regards to p,c,f and calories to reach thier goals this is iifym. No pro is going to eat CLEAN foods all day regardless of what numbers hes taking in of course they follow the numbers.

I follow iifym and id say 90 - 95% of my daily diet is clean whole foods but what i dont do is beat myself up if i get a craving for something i just adjust on the move instead of binging at a wekend


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Banzi and Tommy are starting to sound like protestants and catholics arguing.

Neither wants to be truly objective and only concerned what resides in their sphere of beliefs and are dogmatic against anything that isn't


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Unless I was getting on stage which I'm not why would I deprive myself of all the things I like. I eat clean as I can but still enjoy my food. Fvcking restricting myself to the same food day in day out, for the sake of what?

It all becomes a chore then instead of enjoying myself


----------



## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Abc987 said:


> Unless I was getting on stage which I'm not why would I deprive myself of all the things I like. I eat clean as I can but still enjoy my food. Fvcking restricting myself to the same food day in day out, for the sake of what?
> 
> It all becomes a chore then instead of enjoying myself


This is it.

I get to dine out on company expenses a lot and eat in top restaurants. I live an active social life. Laugh a lot and go to lots of interesting places. I look better than most my age, certainly strong and fitter than most guys in their mid 30s.

I'd take that over getting on stage and looking decent in a false economy for 5 minutes whilst men stare at my body.


----------



## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> This is it.
> 
> I get to dine out on company expenses a lot and eat in top restaurants. I live an active social life. Laugh a lot and go to lots of interesting places. I look better than most my age, certainly strong and fitter than most guys in their mid 30s.
> 
> I'd take that over getting on stage and looking decent in a false economy for 5 minutes whilst men stare at my body.


Me and you both mate. I get told all the time how good I'm looking and that's what I do it for, vanity lol. All I want is to stand out in a crowd and I do that whilst still enjoying life

Think I am a gear head for life now though or the foreseeable future anyway, leaning towards staying on until next summer mg:


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

@banzi time to be the bigger man and challenge tommy to a fight


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Sugar is not really an issue in active individuals, in sedentary people it can cause problems but most problems occur due to being fat in the first place.
> 
> Just like when people do things like eat McDonalds for months for an experiment, but in a deficit - lose weight - all their health markers improve despite eating "Junk"


so assuming sugar intake is within your calorie requirement and you don't get fat moderate amounts of sugar shouldn't lead to any health problems ?

what about diabetes, im pretty sure you mentioned in another thread that sugar isn't a cause of diabetes yet we are warned about the dangers of this ?


----------



## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

Abc987 said:


> Unless I was getting on stage which I'm not why would I deprive myself of all the things I like. I eat clean as I can but still enjoy my food. Fvcking restricting myself to the same food day in day out, for the sake of what?
> 
> It all becomes a chore then instead of enjoying myself


I agree unless you have a holiday or something coming up.

I'll never cut just for the fun of it again, totally no point IMO. I enjoy my food too much to deprive myself.


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> You dont eat carbs??


Generally no. I don't really bother with them. But if I want to I do.


----------



## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Sharpy76 said:


> You have my attention!
> 
> Where would I find such heavenly glory?


Thank me later mate.

Utter Peanut Butter Clutter Cookie Core | Ben & Jerry's


----------



## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

DC1 said:


> Thank me later mate.
> 
> Utter Peanut Butter Clutter Cookie Core | Ben & Jerry's


Not the b & j's, the Nutella cheesecake, I need that in my life!!!


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

DC1 said:


> Thank me later mate.
> 
> Utter Peanut Butter Clutter Cookie Core | Ben & Jerry's


Love this. Good thing is the rest of the family don't like it do its just for me


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Sharpy76 said:


> Not the b & j's, the Nutella cheesecake, I need that in my life!!!


Lol, aww. I'll get the recipe for you bud. Home made.


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> IN


Leave it with me.


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

@Sharpy76 @TommyBananas

NUTELLA CHEESECAKE | Recipes | Nigella Lawson


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

This is Phil Heath following a strict macro controlled diet :whistling:


__
http://instagr.am/p/24A-vGpYjO/


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

Dark sim said:


> This is Phil Heath following a strict macro controlled diet :whistling:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/24A-vGpYjO/


He's just doing it for the camera mate, he has that glint in his eye


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Dan94 said:


> He's just doing it for the camera mate, he has that glint in his eye


Another pro with a glint lol

He does also post the odd chicken and rice meal to keep the likes of banzi excited. Mr O likes to please all.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> Another pro with a glint lol
> 
> He does also post the odd chicken and rice meal to keep the likes of banzi excited. Mr O likes to please all.


what did he have for dessert?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dan94 said:


> These guys are stage ready using IIFYM, do you agree Banzi?
> 
> View attachment 172181
> View attachment 172182


no idea mate, I dont accompany them 24/7


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## Dan94 (Dec 29, 2013)

banzi said:


> no idea mate, I dont accompany them 24/7


Smarty pants


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> *Banzi and Tommy are starting to sound like protestants and catholics arguing. *
> 
> Neither wants to be truly objective and only concerned what resides in their sphere of beliefs and are dogmatic against anything that isn't


Do you know how I dieted and lost 17lbs in 4 weeks a couple of months ago?

You may be surprised.

I made a thread charting what I did, go look it up.


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

In fairness I can comfortably loose 14 in three days by carbing up and depleating ;-)


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Benchbum said:


> In fairness I can comfortably loose 14 in three days by carbing up and depleating ;-)


Whats fairness got to do with anything?


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

banzi said:


> Whats fairness got to do with anything?


Valid point. Well made.


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## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

DC1 said:


> @Sharpy76 @TommyBananas
> 
> NUTELLA CHEESECAKE | Recipes | Nigella Lawson


Thanks but I'm a lazy fvcker.

I'll just buy a cheesecake, jar of Nutella and smoother over top.

That'll work, right?


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

banzi said:


> Do you know how I dieted and lost 17lbs in 4 weeks a couple of months ago?
> 
> You may be surprised.
> 
> I made a thread charting what I did, go look it up.


Yes I do. Well done on that


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## DC1 (May 5, 2014)

Sharpy76 said:


> Thanks but I'm a lazy fvcker.
> 
> I'll just buy a cheesecake, jar of Nutella and smoother over top.
> 
> That'll work, right?


Lol, worth a go.


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## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

banzi said:


> what did he have for dessert?


On this occasion, I imagine a fortune cookie.

He is a fan of pancakes, he told me once....


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> Yes, sugar if within calorie intake is fine.
> 
> Yes, sugar does not cause diabetes - anyone who says it does, has zero idea what they are talking about.
> 
> The only reason sugar is *linked* to diabetes - is because of obesity and type 2 diabetes. All the websites state that it is a myth, that sugar is the cause of diabetes though. If someone ate 500g of fat a day, and got fat - fat would be the linked cause to diabetes, for example.


its a common misconception, seems to be an idea promoted by the media to some degree, its something that i had got from somewhere but what you said makes sense.


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Sharpy76 said:


> I agree unless you have a holiday or something coming up.
> 
> I'll never cut just for the fun of it again, totally no point IMO. I enjoy my food too much to deprive myself.


How long do you look good for on holiday?

Do you let yourself go or continue to watch what you eat?


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## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> How long do you look good for on holiday?
> 
> Do you let yourself go or continue to watch what you eat?


I won't be depriving myself mate I can tell you that!

I'll just go with the flow and have whatever I feel then hit it hard when I come back.

I'm on bloody holiday not a prison camp!


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Sharpy76 said:


> I won't be depriving myself mate I can tell you that!
> 
> I'll just go with the flow and have whatever I feel then hit it hard when I come back.
> 
> I'm on bloody holiday not a prison camp!


That's why I asked, which is kind've why I struggle to see the point in dieting for an holiday as in my experience, i look a mess within 48hrs. I say a mess, thats the stage I am usually at when I arrive so a 'right state' by the 48hr stage. :lol:


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## Sharpy76 (May 11, 2012)

BLUE(UK) said:


> That's why I asked, which is kind've why I struggle to see the point in dieting for an holiday as in my experience, i look a mess within 48hrs. I say a mess, thats the stage I am usually at when I arrive so a 'right state' by the 48hr stage. :lol:


Lol, I see where you're coming from. It'll be just water weight though.

At least we can look good in speedos for 48hrs I suppose


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Armitage Shanks said:


> Are you saying that if you consume more calories, regardless where they come from, you will get fat?
> 
> Sure will.
> 
> ...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

ILLBehaviour said:


> so assuming sugar intake is within your calorie requirement and you don't get fat moderate amounts of sugar shouldn't lead to any health problems ?
> 
> what about diabetes, im pretty sure you mentioned in another thread that sugar isn't a cause of diabetes yet we are warned about the dangers of this ?


There are some health concerns relating to significant sugar (sucrose) and fructose consumption that do not not directly relate to diabetes and I believe could occur without gaining body fat. The evidence is that modest sugar consumption is not an issue though, but it would definitely stop me replacing all my complex carbs with sugar.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

If cutting I'd be more inclined to limit sucrose and particularly fructose intake a bit more due to the lesser effect on leptin levels FWIW. But this is all going beyond IIFYM as they are reasons all carbs aren't completely equal.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Abc987 said:


> Unless I was getting on stage which I'm not why would I deprive myself of all the things I like. I eat clean as I can but still enjoy my food. Fvcking restricting myself to the same food day in day out, for the sake of what?
> 
> It all becomes a chore then instead of enjoying myself


I was in a restaurant the other week and there was a fella on the next table who clearly trained, nothing special but you could see he puts in a bit of effort.

He was sitting there boring all the other people at the table with what he eats on a daily basis, I was sitting there thinking the fella lives like a monk by the sound of it and didn't look any better than I do and I eat pretty much what I want within reason.

What a fvcking pointless existence.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Smitch said:


> I was in a restaurant the other week and there was a fella on the next table who clearly trained, nothing special but you could see he puts in a bit of effort.
> 
> He was sitting there boring all the other people at the table with what he eats on a daily basis, I was sitting there thinking the fella lives like a monk by the sound of it and didn't look any better than I do and I eat pretty much what I want within reason.
> 
> What a fvcking pointless existence.


Imagine if he another mate with him who also trained but had apposing views o training and they argued about it over dinner. No matter what conversation, it went back to the same argument.

Now imagine eating with them everyday

Everyday.

Every single day

It would get annoying the first time right.

Imagine that.

Every

Single

Day


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

simonthepieman said:


> Imagine if he another mate with him who also trained but had apposing views o training and they argued about it over dinner. No matter what conversation, it went back to the same argument.
> 
> Now imagine eating with them everyday
> 
> ...


Lol Tommy and Banzi having a romantic dinner


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Lol Tommy and Banzi having a romantic dinner


On the island of Fernandos.

Tommy is left wishing he didn't leave his light on.

And banzi wished he had picked the fruitarian.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

ILLBehaviour said:


> On the island of Fernandos.
> 
> Tommy is left wishing he didn't leave his light on.
> 
> And banzi wished he had picked the fruitarian.


Lol


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> On the island of Fernandos.
> 
> Tommy is left wishing he didn't leave his light on.
> 
> And banzi wished he had picked the fruitarian.


Tommy wouldnt be able to see over the plinth.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

banzi said:


> Tommy wouldnt be able to see over the plinth.


You'd get OAP rates


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

I'd love to meet up for a UK-M meal. Huehuehue.

Or BBQ at mine this summer \o>

@Alanricksnape is in.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

TommyBananas said:


> I'd love to meet up for a UK-M meal. Huehuehue.
> 
> Or BBQ at mine this summer \o>
> 
> @Alanricksnape is in.


Would be rubbish, most would just sit there not saying anything as they don't have a keyboard in front of them and amusing memes other people had created to explain situations.

:laugh:


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Smitch said:


> Would be rubbish, most would just sit there not saying anything as they don't have a keyboard in front of them and amusing memes other people had created to explain situations.
> 
> :laugh:


Nahhh, it'd be awesome at my BBQ at least, football, beer, IIFYM banners across my house.


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

No macros will be counted at today's BBQ


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

simonthepieman said:


> No macros will be counted at today's BBQ


I'm sposed to be having a BBQ today; even though I told my pals yesterday was better weather. I wake up, it's raining and I get this message at 9 am.

"I'm dieing My throat is so sore"


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

TommyBananas said:


> I'm sposed to be having a BBQ today; even though I told my pals yesterday was better weather. I wake up, it's raining and I get this message at 9 am.
> 
> "I'm dieing My throat is so sore"


be more gentle next time you are skull fecking him.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

I will definitely look sh1t on this diet..lol



FelonE said:


> Lol.
> 
> This is a typical days foodfor me atm. Just so people see I'm not eating crap all day.
> 
> ...


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I will definitely look sh1t on this diet..lol


I don't


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

I have one of my mate who just eat anything. There are days when we hang out whole day together and by looking at his food choices, i sometimes get amazed how he has managed such a physique. Doesn't count calories doesn't count macros and looks sick. Sometimes, i feel like AAS and age are more important factor than type of diet style, clean or IIFYM whatever. His Picture :-



FelonE said:


> I don't


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Jatin Bhatia said:


> I have one of my mate who just eat anything. There are days when we hang out whole day together and by looking at his food choices, i sometimes get amazed how he has managed such a physique. Doesn't count calories doesn't count macros and looks sick. Sometimes, i feel like AAS and age are more important factor than type of diet style, clean or IIFYM whatever. His Picture :-
> View attachment 172242


Aas are definitely a contributing factor.

I've also found that the leaner I am the more flexible I can be with food.

I train upper/lower twice a week and the upper days are quite long so I burn a lot of calories, I'm also quite active.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

@TommyBananas thoughts?


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Trevor McDonald said:


> @TommyBananas thoughts?


Jerry Ward is one of the dumbest humans alive, there is my thoughts.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Trevor McDonald said:


> @TommyBananas thoughts?


Wow, I get what he is saying, but he is not actually correct.


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