# WHY an AI during cycle? Its silly.



## BlackCoffee (May 14, 2009)

Alright guys,

came on here for all my gear research, and everyone does the general cookie cutter principles of using AI's, HCG throughout etc etc....without knowing if they even need it!

*PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR OWN BODY!*

*
*

*
IF *your feeling good on just test enanthate, your not puffing out like a retard, no signs of gyno or anything then please dont bother taking arimidex!

Keep things SIMPLE. I have spoken to numerous pros, people just read a sample cycle online and think its gospel.

im mid way through my test cycle and haven't had the need to use an AI, and I would have done had i not use my brain.

experiment on yourself, and add in only what you NEED to.

Agree?

If I can spark a few minds to think for themselves come cycle planning time, then I've acheived my target post.


----------



## Ricky12345 (Jun 13, 2012)

Unless a ai gets me hench it ain't being used


----------



## huarache (May 28, 2012)

BlackCoffee said:


> Alright guys,
> 
> came on here for all my gear research, and everyone does the general cookie cutter principles of using AI's, HCG throughout etc etc....without knowing if they even need it!
> 
> ...


talk but no facts to back up your statements, at least provide some form of evidence to support your theory?

Why wouldn't you use it - Genuine question

Not being ****y, just interested...

As you say - people look at an online cycle and take it as gospel but you've done the same just it's from a 'pro' who has suggested not to take it cause he hasn't...

That's like someone doing a cycle and saying, don't do pct, listen to your body if you need it, I was fine.... How do you really know? You don't?

How can you listen to your body too? It's not going to be telling you much lol


----------



## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Or dont talk sh1te


----------



## MincedMuscle (Aug 6, 2012)

Aside from Gyno (since I assume you've done this without trouble already): 1.more estrogen means more SHBG which will bind up your hormones so they can't be used for building muscle 2. Excess estrogen makes you store fat in unwanted places more easily. 3. If you don't want that puffy look from the extra estrogen an AI will help keep you dryer and leaner looking.


----------



## scott.taylor (Jun 18, 2012)

No one would know if they were Gyno prone if it was thier first cycle.

I wish I'd used an AI on my first go, now I'm ****ed with a sore nipple every time I come off Tamoxifen.


----------



## Slater8486 (Jul 14, 2010)

Am on my first cycle and have used an AI, I would rather used one just incase TBH. I think taking Arimidex out ways the chance of not taking it!


----------



## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Surely taking an ai and hcg on cycle is more important than the actual pct.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

An AI isnt needed on low doses , estrogen helps with strength , too high is bad but too low is equally as bad .

As for PCT does it really work .

HCG throughout the cycle is imo all thats needed unless estrogen gets too high then an AI should be used .


----------



## Ginger Ben (Oct 5, 2010)

ewen said:


> As for PCT does it really work .


You'd have to come off to find out


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Ginger Ben said:


> You'd have to come off to find out


haha never


----------



## Poke (May 31, 2012)

Your post doesn't correlate to your thread title.

Why use an ai on cycle?

Simple... Use an ai if you are getting signs of or are prone to from experience gyno and bloat and labido drop.

I think this is what most people do anyway.... You need to take a chill pill, hey maybe you have high e? Lol


----------



## husaberg (May 23, 2013)

i ordered adex but it didn't arrive and i thought i would be ok as last cycle i did without..am only doing 500 teste 300 decca so its a low dose as well...within 2 weeks i had swollen sore nips which if it had been left would have developed into lumps ..fortunately i had ordered again after the first didn't arrive so i was only suffering symtoms a week but it took another week of adex/ and a few days of nolva to bring it under control..if i had taken from day one it wouldn't have happened and if i had started without an ai and had trouble with an order like idid fisrt time i could have been weeks with it before even starting which could have been enough time for it to lump, so i for one don't agree with you and taking half every 2 or 3 days as an est control is not such a big deal at all we are not talking big doses to irradicate it


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

BlackCoffee said:


> Alright guys,
> 
> came on here for all my gear research, and everyone does the general cookie cutter principles of using AI's, HCG throughout etc etc....without knowing if they even need it!
> 
> ...


to be fair although i agree with you on the AI front i don't on the HCG, as for talking to Pro's many Pro's are instructed they do not necessarily know everything believe me i personally know a fair few who are good friends and they admit this do not confused having muscle as having knowledge it does not always (most of the time) but not always go hand in hand....

the AI bit i agree it is hitting a possible nail with a sledge hammer when a pin hammer is maybe needed, the HCG though is needed and not enough do this as pretty much within weeks of any cycle your leydig cells are effected small amounts of HCG will help them not be to damaged by the cycle thus helping PCT to be more effective.....


----------



## BennyC (Mar 18, 2010)

From what I have gathered from my reading and also just using common sense would be to just use the lowest dose possible at the lowest frequency and then increase this based on what you are experiencing.

I agree with not unnecesarily loading things in to your body it may well not need but don't think that advising people to not bother using an AI until it is potentially too late is particularly wise.

No AAS use exeperience yet so feel free to dismiss the above!


----------



## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I probably use half a strip of Adex a year, timing it's use for when I really need it rather than as a matter of course. As for HCG, I would recommend it throughout any aas use save trt for life.


----------



## husaberg (May 23, 2013)

BennyC said:


> From what I have gathered from my reading and also just using common sense would be to just use the lowest dose possible at the lowest frequency and then increase this based on what you are experiencing.
> 
> I agree with not unnecesarily loading things in to your body it may well not need but don't think that advising people to not bother using an AI until it is potentially too late is particularly wise.
> 
> No AAS use exeperience yet so feel free to dismiss the above!


that seems the sensible course of action to me also


----------



## BennyC (Mar 18, 2010)

husaberg said:


> that seems the sensible course of action to me also


I have friends who take the viewpoint & also practise no AI unless required for the reasons I mentioned previously, just so happens to make the cycle cheaper too.

Though well respected & very knowledgable members here advise the opposite.

Bit of a best of both, as I'm told exgenous testosterone will aromatise/convert to estrogen so by running a low infrequent dose (that might not change at all during your cycle) you keep this under control, won't really hinder gains at all or throw yourself off balance unnecesarily and also don't pump in large amounts of unneeded drugs or waste money, though I don't think AI's are expensive.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

BlackCoffee said:


> Alright guys,
> 
> came on here for all my gear research, and everyone does the general cookie cutter principles of using AI's, HCG throughout etc etc....without knowing if they even need it!
> 
> ...


Dont listen to this idiot.

Most of you have read my posts on why an AI should be used, this plank obviously hasn't got a clue about aromatization and the problems associated with excess estrogen in males, including it's highly suppressive action on the hypothalmus, who wants a tough recovery and lose a lot of your gains? if thats what you want don't bother with an AI.


----------



## Nano (Jun 10, 2013)

What are the effects of E being to low ?


----------



## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

If one has had full gland removal under the NIPPPPPS would you still use an AI?

I've not used once on the cycles ive done since surgery and had not even a slight like feeling that i was getting an itchy nipp etc


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

m575 said:


> Surely taking an ai and hcg on cycle is more important than the actual pct.


Two words Nail, Head, i think the above above statement just hit it  .


----------



## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mars said:


> Two words Nail, Head, i think the above above statement just hit it  .


Is 1000iu a week split in two jabs still the normal protocol?


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

UK1989 said:


> Is 1000iu a week split in two jabs still the normal protocol?


Once or twice weekly, doesnt really make a great deal of difference.


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

UK1989 said:


> If one has had full gland removal under the NIPPPPPS would you still use an AI?
> 
> I've not used once on the cycles ive done since surgery and had not even a slight like feeling that i was getting an itchy nipp etc


Yes because it's not all about gyno.

Mainly for the OP, who obviously doesn't have a clue, read below.

*It can affect your libido and sexual function.

*It causes fatigue (ask anyone if they have experienced so called test flu on the first cycles, 90% of the time this is due to the huge increase in estrogen).

*It raises TBG, this causes bloat and puts a strain on your kidneys.

*It raises SHBG, this leaves less free test for you to grow.

*It is also a causative factor in enlarged prostate, do you really need this when exogenous test converting to DHT is also another causative factor in BPH.

*It also causes gyno as i'm sure you know.

*It's extremely suppresive to HPTA function and will inhibit your recovery post cycle.

Shall i go on?


----------



## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mars said:


> Yes because it's not all about gyno.
> 
> Mainly for the OP, who obviously doesn't have a clue, read below.
> 
> ...


Appreciated...i will now go and get my dunse hat from the corner cos i feel a idiot now! haha.

So if i get some Adex....i dont go much higher than 250mg test a week....would you say 0.5mg eod will be plenty for the AI purpose?

I know HCG aromatises massively so wise to use an AI when using HCG for definite.

Thanks buddy


----------



## Kevin Smith (May 2, 2013)

UK1989 said:


> Appreciated...i will now go and get my dunse hat from the corner cos i feel a idiot now! haha.
> 
> So if i get some Adex....i dont go much higher than 250mg test a week....would you say 0.5mg eod will be plenty for the AI purpose?
> 
> ...


We are all different but I am on 600mg test and 45mg dbol and 0.5mg arimidex EOD seems to be doing the trick for me in terms of hardness and avoiding sides. I am also on 250IUs of HCG shot 3 times a week.

Kevin


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

Kevin Smith said:


> *We are all different* but I am on 600mg test and 45mg dbol and 0.5mg arimidex EOD seems to be doing the trick for me in terms of hardness and avoiding sides. I am also on 250IUs of HCG shot 3 times a week.
> 
> Kevin


Exacly what i was about to say to UK1989.

We all have different amount of the enzyme aromatase so it's trial and error, i would personally start even lower than that and increase if neccesary.

Personally when i was running cruise @ 250mg E10D i only used a tab af adex the day after my shot, as this was when estrogen spiked and caused my libido to go a bit haywire, the use of just that one tab gave me a consistent libido for the full 10 days.

Trial and error mate, thats what it's all about.


----------



## BigRS (Aug 3, 2012)

Mars said:


> Yes because it's not all about gyno.
> 
> Mainly for the OP, who obviously doesn't have a clue, read below.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the info. Never used an AI before but i will definately do this in the future.

I have HG Cidotestone and HG Aromasin (Upjohn) for my next cycle, how much Aromasin do you advise for 500 and 1000mg Cidotestone?


----------



## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'll jab my test and 1,000iu hcg all the same day as i remember to do both then...normally do it last thing before bed so ill do that and take 0.5mg adex that night? Or wait till morning?

I use mast also around 300mg a week which will help a "teeeeny tiny bit"


----------



## Kevin Smith (May 2, 2013)

UK1989 said:


> I'll jab my test and 1,000iu hcg all the same day as i remember to do both then...normally do it last thing before bed so ill do that and take 0.5mg adex that night? Or wait till morning?
> 
> I use mast also around 300mg a week which will help a "teeeeny tiny bit"


You might want to jab the HCG separately as it is constituted in water (bacteriostatic) so don't mix up oils and water bro. Also, HCG can be shot subcutaneously, I use insulin syringes and it is dead easy to jab you can even split your shots throughout the week if you want or find it works best.

BTW, I take arimidex in the morning, if it helps


----------



## UK1989 (Jan 4, 2013)

Kevin Smith said:


> You might want to jab the HCG separately as it is constituted in water (bacteriostatic) so don't mix up oils and water bro. Also, HCG can be shot subcutaneously, I use insulin syringes and it is dead easy to jab you can even split your shots throughout the week if you want or find it works best.
> 
> BTW, I take arimidex in the morning, if it helps


Sorry bro..i meant ill take them both together..as in the same today..but yeah id use insulin pins normally anyway.

Cheers


----------



## BigTrev (Mar 16, 2008)

BlackCoffee said:


> Alright guys,
> 
> came on here for all my gear research, and everyone does the general cookie cutter principles of using AI's, HCG throughout etc etc....without knowing if they even need it!
> 
> ...


Never heard so much dribble sorry op

Lots of reasons for taking Ai and hcg while on cycles,,,from e2 control,,,testical atrophy,,,libido issues,,,gyno,,,easier pct and last but not least better kept gains.

Never mind your mental state of mind to,,so if that's not enough to convince taking these what is.

Also just because you think your feeling great while on a cycle without these meds doesn't mean inside you could be about to crash and fcuk up completely.

Using these meds have saved a lot of peeps from going through months of torture mentally and physically


----------



## dr_squeeze (Jul 28, 2008)

so you dont end up looking like this guy


----------



## Mars (Aug 25, 2007)

UK1989 said:


> Sorry bro..i meant ill take them both together..as in the same today..but yeah id use insulin pins normally anyway.
> 
> Cheers


For the 4 years i was on HCG i always mixed it with my test, with the thicker oils like Norma i just used to draw up both, give it a shake and inject, it used to go in easier so i didn't have to push like fcuk on the plunger.


----------



## imabigguy (Oct 4, 2011)

Mars said:


> Yes because it's not all about gyno.
> 
> Mainly for the OP, who obviously doesn't have a clue, read below.
> 
> ...


Regarding libido and sexual function if function is not optimal and low libido issues are present will this be an issue strongly related with high or low estrogen? My current cycle is 600mg test 600 tren and i have just started 50mg dbol so surely i won't have low estrogen in your opinion would an ai help with my issues, i wouldn't consider myself to have the symptoms of high estrogen e.g. bloated at all nor do i have gyno i am confused if my estrogen is high or not as i don't have these symptoms, i stopped letro about 5 months ago when i was on a much higher dose of test because of sex drive issues and as i stopped letro lowered my test dose assuming the problem would fix itself but it hasn't and no matter what my cycle has been i have issues now, i would just go to the doc's and get my levels tested but i am unsure of their reaction ect....cheers


----------

