# Winstrol tabs while dieting



## Aaron20 (Feb 16, 2012)

5 foot 8

203lbs

13% bodyfat

Looking to cut up soon never done it before was wondering if there will be any point in running 50mg a day Winstrol for 8-12 to preserve a bit of muscle mass? Done some research and I'm seeing mixed opinions. Will Winstrol actually preserve any muscle? Not wanting to jab really on this cycle as iv not that long ago came off my 1st test and Dbol cycle and had enough of jabbing for a while to be honest. Cheers.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Var sh*ts on winny hands down...

100mg ED of anavar is the absolute dogs mate.

You can preserve your muscle on a diet by keeping protien levels high, cutting out red meats and possibly following a keto diet.

The only androgen that will really help you preserve muscle is a potent one like tren.

But i wouldnt recommend that anyway.


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## Aaron20 (Feb 16, 2012)

Cheers mate, isn't Anavar alot more expensive? And what if I upped the Winstrol dose?


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## Aaron20 (Feb 16, 2012)

And are you saying then that in fact Winstrol and Anavar both don't help you retain muscle? They are just muscle hardeners then?


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Thats like saying if i jabbed 2000mg week would it be the same as 500mg/week of tren... no, they are completly different compounds and retain completly different charactistics.

As i mentioned anyway, both of the above var and winny are pointless if your looking to cut and your diet is pants IMO.

Do us a favour stick up your proposed diet, wanna see if its even worth running a cycle, because if thats not in check its pointless even thinking of AAS.

Var is more expensive, for one good reason, its much better, vascularity, hardening, density, pumps, lypolsis effects etc.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Also winny has a tendency to dry up your joints, and jacking up the dose on winny from 50 - 100mg wont nessessarily benefit you, probably will just end up making your elbows and knees grind.

Word of advise, if you decide to go down the winny route, supplement with some glucosamine sulphate, you can get it at any heath food shop, h&b etc..

Great for lubing up joints and improving them all round really.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Why the hell does he need to drop red meat to cut?


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

For me, winny over var any day.

Everyone reacts differently to meds so try it for yourself


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## Aaron20 (Feb 16, 2012)

Ino that but I ment is my 50mg of Winstrol to low, and don't mean to come

Across as a dick but my cutting diet will be fine I was just simply asking if people think using the Winstrol would be a good idea. I might just go natural when I cut. Just wondering if there would be any point throwing some winny in there


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

Winstrol will be fine for retaining muscle whilst cutting as long as your diet is spot on.


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## Aaron20 (Feb 16, 2012)

Yeah cheers I take glucosamine anyway it's good


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Aaron20 said:


> Ino that but I ment is my 50mg of Winstrol to low, and don't mean to come
> 
> Across as a dick but my cutting diet will be fine I was just simply asking if people think using the Winstrol would be a good idea. I might just go natural when I cut. Just wondering if there would be any point throwing some winny in there


Personally I wouldn't do a cut without aas


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

bayman said:


> Why the hell does he need to drop red meat to cut?


Red meat contains a lot of fat in it mostly, creatine levels are higher in it also and that will increase water retention.

Theres a reason why fish and chicken are popular on cutting / pre contest, because they contain lots of good fats and oils that help to thin the skin and condition you.

Dropping red meat totally doesnt have to be done, but focusing on leaner cuts of meat and fish would be a good road to go down.


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## Aaron20 (Feb 16, 2012)

Hotdog147 - I don't want to really mate ill prob go with the Winstrol as my supplier wants loads for Anavar.

Feelin big - cheers diet will be spot on and that's what im hoping that the winny should help me retain alot of it, not expecting to keep all of it on my first cut but as much as I can


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

lewishart said:


> Red meat contains a lot of fat in it mostly, creatine levels are higher in it also and that will increase water retention.
> 
> Theres a reason why fish and chicken are popular on cutting / pre contest, because they contain lots of good fats and oils that help to thin the skin and condition you.
> 
> Dropping red meat totally doesnt have to be done, but focusing on leaner cuts of meat and fish would be a good road to go down.


Dude, it's about calories. So long as you're in a negative energy deficit and hitting plenty of protein then red meat is absolutely fine, plus you can get plenty lean cuts of red meat.. No need to over complicate things.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, agreed, everyone is different.

But in the past 2 weeks, ive gained 8kg and dropped 3.5% body fat, leaving me around 9%

That was through eating talapia and brown rice with brocolli 4 times per day with a small amount of oats, dropping my red meats etc.

And tbh im looking absolutly incredible...


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

lewishart said:


> Well, agreed, everyone is different.
> 
> *But in the past 2 weeks, ive gained 8kg and dropped 3.5% body fat, leaving me around 9%*
> 
> ...


So you have gained over 17lbs muscle in 2 weeks!! AND lost all that fat! LOL Ofcourse you have!!

Pics or BS


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

lewishart said:


> Well, agreed, everyone is different.
> 
> But in the past 2 weeks, ive gained 8kg and dropped 3.5% body fat, leaving me around 9%
> 
> ...


Pics... Or it didnt happen...


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Feelin-Big said:


> Pics... Or it didnt happen...


Exactly....


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

lewishart said:


> Well, agreed, everyone is different.
> 
> But in the past 2 weeks, ive gained 8kg and dropped 3.5% body fat, leaving me around 9%


In 2 weeks!!!!

I prefer Winny over Var when dieting myself


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

lewishart said:


> Well, agreed, everyone is different.


No we're not. We're 99.5% genetically identically. There is no special secret to getting lean/



lewishart said:


> But in the past 2 weeks, ive gained 8kg and dropped 3.5% body fat, leaving me around 9%


Absolute BS, even with AAS.


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

G-man99 said:


> In 2 weeks!!!!
> 
> I prefer Winny over Var when dieting myself


What kind of winny dosage do you run dude?


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## Big_bear (Apr 1, 2011)

I think that should be the motto of UKM - 'pics or BS' fcuking love it.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

bayman said:


> What kind of winny dosage do you run dude?


Ran 150mg Var last time for 10 weeks and will run Winny at 75mg for 6 weeks this time


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2012)

I'm calling bs where's Carl pilkinton


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

bayman said:


> No we're not. We're 99.5% genetically identically. There is no special secret to getting lean/
> 
> Absolute BS, even with AAS.


For all the individuals who have commented on what ive wrote about my gains. good for you, you dont believe me fine I honestly could not care less.

I find weight gain to be extremely easy when ive got a perfect diet, and for the past 2.5 weeks my diet has been completly spot on, meals every 2.5 hours, high levels of protien low GI carbs etc etc

Im not here to prove a point, i was merely stating the gains ive made.

Im running 700mg test prop, 700mg mast prop, 700mg tren, 50mg dbol ED for my cycle.

And dont give me this, pictures or its a lie, just because some individuals on here cant gain 2lbs across a cycle and i can gain well, ive been training for years and have a perfect diet, not to mention im a PT so I have a advantage there.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh and also, i didnt train for 2 months prior to starting my cycle so I lost a bit of weight of course.

When you have all factors in place like I have you all will find it easy to gain muscle, I have good muscle building genetics, im naturally lean 32inch waist and i find it easy to pack on muscle. simple as.

Also im not working at the moment, so all my time is spent resting per day eating correctly, and then training and coming home and repeating.

So unlike a lot of people on here, i have time to eat my meals.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Oh and im running clen at 160mcg/day also forgot to add that in with 7 cups of green tea per day, 2 bags per cup


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

One last point to make also.

For some reason at the start of all of my cycles, i seem to gain a lot of weight, (no its not water because ive actually lost bf% - measured)

My gains slow down towards the end of my cycle, but i guess you could say a lot of my receptors are fresh and maybe Im not sure on the science behind this part

But my AAS has a low affinity for binding to my SHBG, and maybe throughout the cycle, it gets less effective, binds more, less free testosterone etc.

But i know for a fact everytime i start, i gain size and weight easily.

I think i had a before picture ill stick it up actually.


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

Like said previously....

Pics or it didnt happen.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

lewishart said:


> For all the individuals who have commented on what ive wrote about my gains. good for you, you dont believe me fine I honestly could not care less.
> 
> I find weight gain to be extremely easy when ive got a perfect diet, and for the past 2.5 weeks my diet has been completly spot on, meals every 2.5 hours, high levels of protien low GI carbs etc etc
> 
> ...


have you not considered that his huge gain might be due to water and glycogen? or faulty scales?


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Feelin-Big said:


> Like said previously....
> 
> Pics or it didnt happen.


lol your the funny one on here arent you?

****. go grow up and realise people can make gains with all factors in place.

naive little boy.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

m118 said:


> have you not considered that his huge gain might be due to water and glycogen? or faulty scales?


Ive weighted myself on a few different scales bro so thats not a option.

Ive dropped my body fat in total and my water dropped too certinatly.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Feelin-Big said:


> Like said previously....
> 
> Pics or it didnt happen.


You know what, I literally have absolutly nothing to prove to you, your just some net nerd who sits behind his computer feeling like a top man because you can be cheeky like you are being.

I have made those gains, believe it or not I honestly believe me could not give a toss less.

Good luck gaining 1lb per cycle with your mcdonalds.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

lewishart said:


> You know what, I literally have absolutly nothing to prove to you, your just some net nerd who sits behind his computer feeling like a top man because you can be cheeky like you are being.
> 
> I have made those gains, believe it or not I honestly believe me could not give a toss less.
> 
> Good luck gaining 1lb per cycle with your mcdonalds.


It's is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 8kg of muscle and drop 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks regardless of what factors are in place and how mush AAS or peptides are used.

Most of that weight will HAVE to be water weight if they are the stats that you are claiming


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## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

Is this guy DSlondon in disguise?


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## capo (Jul 24, 2011)

I found a wallet once and gained 17 pounds


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> It's is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 8kg of muscle and drop 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks regardless of what factors are in place and how mush AAS or peptides are used.
> 
> Most of that weight will HAVE to be water weight if they are the stats that you are claiming


Okay well I started at 11 stone, 69kg yes i was light, lost a bit of weight not training / eating correctly.

After 2 weeks I was around 11.9 stone which is about 7.5kg.

I dont have digital scales, there analogue so somewhere between 7-8 call it.

Never the less ive gained that weight period.

And im looking better than i ever have condition wise, been eating white fish and rice several times per day.

If it where to be water, i would look bloated, and i dont, i look full dense and very thick.

Im bored of this anyway, this isnt about me, you lot get on with your training and ill do the same.

No problems.


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## Hayesy (Aug 15, 2011)

Winny is BS and its not worth it at all, swerve at all costs

Get Var for cutting


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

lewishart said:


> *Okay well I started at 11 stone*, 69kg yes i was light, lost a bit of weight not training / eating correctly.
> 
> After 2 weeks I was around 11.9 stone which is about 7.5kg.
> 
> ...


this is not an attack, but at 69kg (even allowing for 1-2kg lost as you say) is still very light and would suggest that your training and nutrition isnt established well enough. just as any other member here would say if a guy came along at 69kg and wanted to run ''

Im running 700mg test prop, 700mg mast prop, 700mg tren, 50mg dbol ED for my cycle.'' It's relatively a heavy cycle for someone who is that light


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

lewishart said:


> You know what, I literally have absolutly nothing to prove to you, your just some net nerd who sits behind his computer feeling like a top man because you can be cheeky like you are being.
> 
> I have made those gains, believe it or not I honestly believe me could not give a toss less.
> 
> *Good luck gaining 1lb per cycle with your mcdonalds*.


Your 11 stone!!!!! Hahahahahahaha

Sorry, just found the fact you making out you were bigger than me hilarious for a second. Apologies.

Your right, your were 11 stone, now your 11.9 stone, youve also dropped 3.5% in the 2 weeks and as your such an experienced bb i look forward to seeing you compete this year?


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

You've gained 9 pounds which equates to 4Kg. You lost 3.5% bf at 69KG whilst at 12.5%. This equals 2.4KG. If my maths are right this is a gain of 6.4Kg not 8Kg. Still if you have gained this it is impressive and if it was me i would want to be showing people on here my gains, especially if they were saying its BS, just to shut them up. You are saying that people on here who are talking cr4p are nerds behind computers, at the moment you are exactly the same


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## Hayesy (Aug 15, 2011)

lewishart said:


> Well, agreed, everyone is different.
> 
> But in the past 2 weeks, ive gained 8kg and dropped 3.5% body fat, leaving me around 9%
> 
> ...


I really like this comment and i hope you prove everyone wrong BUT pics or BS!


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

m118 said:


> this is not an attack, but at 69kg (even allowing for 1-2kg lost as you say) is still very light and would suggest that your training and nutrition isnt established well enough. just as any other member here would say if a guy came along at 69kg and wanted to run ''
> 
> Im running 700mg test prop, 700mg mast prop, 700mg tren, 50mg dbol ED for my cycle.'' It's relatively a heavy cycle for someone who is that light


I started this cycle at 11 stone, for the past several months, ive just been trying to condition and not get any bigger.

Maintaining my size for now is what im aiming to do.

So please dont advise me that my nutrition and training arent established as ive been training for a long time and im a qualified PT.

So i can pretty much guarentee that my diet is perfect.

I dont really care about what it says on the scale, never have, all this talk about oh im this and oh im that.

I couldnt care less, its about what i look like, and im in great shape at the moment condition wise.

Please dont assume that any of my points are off as im not aiming to get to 15 stone and full of water like so many people on here, personally i would rather be 12 stone and in amazing condition than 15 stone and some fat watery lumps like all a lot of the individuals on here.

Simple as, im happy where i am with the weight im at, im happy with my cycle and i really dont need any advise.

This is for the OP for winstrol use in dieting... not me.

So drop it, get on with your training and ill do the same.


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Winny over Var anyday. So many bodybuilders smash down high amount of winny when they are cutting to preserve muscle on such low calories so I'd always go with winny. Plus I feel more strength gains on it, makes my shoulders and pecs nice and rounded as well. Var on the other hand gave me less strength but the pumps were helllaaaaa baddd! Vascular yes, but thats not what I was after.

And to the new guy who put 8kg on in 2 weeks, it's possible if your doing what TS23 did, but you just admitting all your eating is rice and broccoli and green tea. I can't see that possible in that case. Not trying to be nasty but it's not good to give people false hope when people new to this game could be reading. But if you say you did then I'm not arguing.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

lewishart said:


> Okay well I started at* 11 stone,* 69kg yes i was light, lost a bit of weight not training / eating correctly.
> 
> After 2 weeks I was around *11.9 stone which is about 7.5kg.*
> 
> ...


Are you saying the 9lb increase equates to 7.5kg???

I'm really not knocking you, I would love to see pics, I just find it hard to believe those gains are humanly possible in 2 WEEKS


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

To the OP, 100-200mg a day of winny will preserve your muscle on a low calorie, low carb, high protein diet. I did 150mg a day for 4 weeks back in november last year, kept everything and lost a nice bit of belly flab.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Sean91 said:


> To the OP, *100-200mg* a day of winny will preserve your muscle on a low calorie, low carb, high protein diet. I did 150mg a day for 4 weeks back in november last year, kept everything and lost a nice bit of belly flab.


OTT for muscle preservation, 50-75mg will do it


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

I can gain 9lbs in a day or two, just by filling my intestines


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

lewishart said:


> I started this cycle at 11 stone, for the past several months, ive just been trying to condition and not get any bigger.
> 
> Maintaining my size for now is what im aiming to do.
> 
> ...


Just to let you know, you spell it ADVICE....

I know you didnt want any but thought id help you out a little.

Good luck with your progression, your doing amazing!


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Hayesy said:


> Winny is BS and its not worth it at all, swerve at all costs
> 
> Get Var for cutting


Really??? I loved winny! better than var for me by a mile, dont tell me...bet you used PC winny??! I found that stuff sh1t too! Alpha Pharma winny is way better


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

I also much prefer winny over var and you only need half the dose and costs about 75% less


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

Im using var for the 1st time at the minute, iv always been a winny man but im liking what i see up to now to be honest. I'll way up the situation at the end of my cycle and see what the verdict is....


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> Really??? I loved winny! better than var for me by a mile, dont tell me...bet you used PC winny??! I found that stuff sh1t too! Alpha Pharma winny is way better


Im glad you've said that mate as I just picked up some AP winny instead of PC. How long did you run it for and what dose?


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## Delhi (Dec 8, 2005)

here we go again a 11 stone "Expert" on 2.5 GRAM of gear and the perfect diet offering his expert (PT) advice to people about compounds he has obviously little or no knowledge of.

Mate seriously stop posting up your wisdom, people need sound advice not your expert knowledge. We are obviously all not RAEDY to recieve your higher level of knowledge.

I have said it before and will again....DONT TRUST SOMEONE WHO HIDES BEHIND AN AVATAR.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

liam0810 said:


> Im glad you've said that mate as I just picked up some AP winny instead of PC. How long did you run it for and what dose?


75mg mate, for 6 weeks. Good stuff, enjoy!


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> 75mg mate, for 6 weeks. Good stuff, enjoy!


Sweet! Better get myself another box of them!


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

liam0810 said:


> Sweet! Better get myself another box of them!


What's your plan with them? 50mg maybe fine but they are not exactly pricey! LOL


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## rick84 (May 11, 2008)

Someone got a tad defensive, clear sign off a pork pier!


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## liam0810 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hotdog147 said:


> What's your plan with them? 50mg maybe fine but they are not exactly pricey! LOL


They're not mate so I'll pick another box up and run them 75-100mg. I was supposed to be cutting now but been in hospital so it's messed my plans up a bit. I would of been starting them in a couple of weeks but going to delay it for another 6 weeks and add in 500mg of test a week on them.


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## valleymentality (Feb 17, 2011)

lewishart said:


> For all the individuals who have commented on what ive wrote about my gains. good for you, you dont believe me fine I honestly could not care less.
> 
> I find weight gain to be extremely easy when ive got a perfect diet, and for the past 2.5 weeks my diet has been completly spot on, meals every 2.5 hours, high levels of protien low GI carbs etc etc
> 
> ...


Spot on diet there. The drugs as well.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Delhi said:


> here we go again a 11 stone "Expert" on 2.5 GRAM of gear and the perfect diet offering his expert (PT) advice to people about compounds he has obviously little or no knowledge of.
> 
> Mate seriously stop posting up your wisdom, people need sound advice not your expert knowledge. We are obviously all not RAEDY to recieve your higher level of knowledge.
> 
> I have said it before and will again....DONT TRUST SOMEONE WHO HIDES BEHIND AN AVATAR.


Im not saying im a expert at all.

Im saying ive done a hell of a lot of research my way into AAS use safely, ive done a PT course purely to educate me about the body.

Im sorry that you and several others dont belive me but it is what it is.

Im not hiding behind a avi and im happy to post up pics, ill try to get a before pic.

This goes out to all of you, please dont judge me, i didnt post up my stats that ive gained this cycle to start a argument.

Ive added the weight ive added, im in great condition and ive been soley eating and training solidly for near enough 3 weeks now.

And yes, partially maybe a few kg will be water, but the majority is dense muscle.

Ive gained well, and i continue always to gain well at the start of my cycles.

I do apologise to all of you that dont believe me and i honestly dont mind, im not trying to prove myself in anyway, ive gained what ive gained and im extremely happy.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Aaron20 said:


> 5 foot 8
> 
> 203lbs
> 
> ...


yes, 50mg will work, but really 100mg is much better. has half life of around 8hours, so try split your dose into 3 through the day, with the last jsut before bed to keep stable blood levels. Winny is excellent for your purposes.



lewishart said:



> Var sh*ts on winny hands down...
> 
> 100mg ED of anavar is the absolute dogs mate.
> 
> ...


1. Winny is more androgenic and hence retains more muscle than Anavar, and is a better choice for men- another fan of winny? Well, apart from Ben Johnson the olympic gold medalist (stripped), Paul borresson- read his take on winny in this interview- page 2/3:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/advanced_chemical_warfare_an_interview_with_paul_borresen

I think he more of an idea than most, Don't you?

2. why would tren preserve more muscle than Test?? it won't and test base +winstrol suspension is the most common daily shot in the last week leading up to a comp...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BONE said:


> 11 stone and your on 2.1g of injectables and orals, i hope your 5ft 1 or 2"????
> 
> As said well done on the water gain mate. Keep it up and glad youve got the 'perfect' diet


x2.. dude, 11stone? You must be 5'2" my girl in the AVI weighs that... shes 5'7"



G-man99 said:


> I also much prefer winny over var and you only need half the dose and costs about 75% less


Absolutely, and to point out the obvious, Gman99 LOOKS like he does AAS... after if you don't why bother??


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## cas (Jan 9, 2011)

Everyone's vision of their ideal body is different, atm I would love to be 17 stone at about 12% bf others may be 12 stone ripped.

Just because someone is a certain weight doesn't mean They know any less than another. Although it can sometimes look that way.

I know a old fat bloke that knows loads about bodybuilding yet you wouldn't think it just to look at him.

I don't know, get a load of guys juiced out their brains, chuck them all in a forum and watch them all go nuts

Crazy lilttle bastards


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

lewishart said:


> For all the individuals who have commented on what ive wrote about my gains. good for you, you dont believe me fine I honestly could not care less.
> 
> I find weight gain to be extremely easy when ive got a perfect diet, and for the past 2.5 weeks my diet has been completly spot on, meals every 2.5 hours, high levels of protien low GI carbs etc etc
> 
> ...


Oh... NOW I KNOW WHO U R! LMFAO!!! still in love with empire boy? How ya goin' "AceOfSpadez"



lewishart said:


> Oh and also, i didnt train for 2 months prior to starting my cycle so I lost a bit of weight of course.
> 
> When you have all factors in place like I have you all will find it easy to gain muscle, I have good muscle building genetics, im naturally lean 32inch waist and i find it easy to pack on muscle. simple as.
> 
> ...


and your mum makes you your meals...


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

lewishart said:


> Im running 700mg test prop, 700mg mast prop, 700mg tren, 50mg dbol ED for my cycle.
> 
> When you have all factors in place like I have you all will find it easy to gain muscle, I have good muscle building genetics, im naturally lean 32inch waist and i find it easy to pack on muscle. simple as.


so that cycle, and you find it easy to "pack on muscle" and You're 11 stone... 2 out 3 of those statements is not right...


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> Oh... NOW I KNOW WHO U R! LMFAO!!! still in love with empire boy? How ya goin' "AceOfSpadez"
> 
> and your mum makes you your meals...


A few people have commented on the fact of this Aceofspades chap, ive genuinely got no idea lol why but okay.

Im not him, if he was someone whos banned and joined up again, you have the wrong guy.

My mum does not make my meals bro... Not sure why you think thats a good statement to make

I live on my own with the missus, not with my parents, bit too old for that now to be honest.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> x2.. dude, 11stone? You must be 5'2" my girl in the AVI weighs that... shes 5'7"
> 
> Absolutely, and to point out the obvious, Gman99 LOOKS like he does AAS... after if you don't why bother??


There are plenty of individuals on UKM that dont look like they have ever touched any AAS, but still somehow post threads about proposed cycle plans.

Just because some does AAS and takes a interest in the sport, does not mean they have to be 8% bf and 15 stone shredded and look like someone mad on juice does it.

Steroids effect everyone different, and everyones ability to utilise the compounds they take differ from one to another.

For instance, my close friend whos running 250mg/week of test E, that is all, blows up on cycle like ive never seen before, he just reacts/absorbs and i guess a lot of SHBG doesnt bind to the compound leaving more free floating.

me and a few other individuals take pretty hefty dosages of a few compounds at once, and dont seem to achieve that huge ripped look, because its not in our genetics.

I put on size easily, i have a relatively small frame so its hard to gain, but the muscle i have gained is quality mature muscle that free flows well, ive been told by a few IBFF's that i would be good in a competition because of my genetics and shape of my physique, but i find it hard to gain that huge size that a lot of individuals find easy.

You do NOT have to look like gman who as you say 'looks like he takes AAS' to render taking them, your just criticising me and probably many other individuals for not having the same beginning frame like some gifted members on here, still it does not stop me trying to please dont tell me 'not to bother' as ive trained very hard for years, yes my weight on the scale wont necessarily represent someone whos massive and looks like a gear head, but ive tried incredibly hard, and learned a lot to help me, AAS has taken me a long way and will carry on doing so.

Please stop shunting me and many others down who are in similar positions and saying to not bother, training is in my heart and i aspire to be like some of the pro's, yes maybe that is several years away.

But its what i love, and just because im not there yet doesnt make me a bad person and doesnt render me useless and to not bother trying.

I do apologise that im not some genetic gifted freak who runs stupid amounts of peptides, GH, slin and AAS to get to a place in life.

Im happy where i am, and i dont appreciate you shunting me down for trying.

The gains ive made on my cycle that ive stated are true, believe it or not i honestly dont care.


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

cas said:


> Everyone's vision of their ideal body is different, atm I would love to be 17 stone at about 12% bf others may be 12 stone ripped.
> 
> Just because someone is a certain weight doesn't mean They know any less than another. Although it can sometimes look that way.
> 
> ...


Thankyou for your understanding

Pretty much sums up what i was trying to get at.

Sucks that everyone always tries to put you down, and assumes your lying based on statements youve made.

I get absolutely nothing from lying to any individual on any forum honestly.


----------



## militant (Jul 12, 2014)

Winny over Var anyday, var really disappointed me


----------



## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

lewishart said:


> *There are plenty of individuals on UKM that dont **look** like they have ever touched any AAS, but still somehow post threads about proposed cycle plans.*
> 
> Just because some does AAS and takes a interest in the sport, does not mean they have to be 8% bf and 15 stone shredded and look like someone mad on juice does it.
> 
> ...


OK... 1st problem - These people you talk of have the 'balls' to put a photo up of themselves 1st then comment on their experiences. If someone else claims to have done something which we dont believe to be true we would ask for photo's. You however, hide behind your avi, claim to have the perfect diet, and claim that IFBB pro's say you would be good in competition because of your genetics, yet in a previous statement you say you dont have the genetics?!

Its simple....

If you have a 'perfect diet' and you look as good as you say you do, post some before and after pics so we can congratulate you on your progress.

Otherwise, its all a heap of BS. If you have such a perfect diet AND your an expert in the use of steroids AND you are have been training for several years... How are you only 11 stone?


----------



## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

Feelin-Big said:


> OK... 1st problem - These people you talk of have the 'balls' to put a photo up of themselves 1st then comment on their experiences. If someone else claims to have done something which we dont believe to be true we would ask for photo's. You however, hide behind your avi, claim to have the perfect diet, and claim that IFBB pro's say you would be good in competition because of your genetics, yet in a previous statement you say you dont have the genetics?!
> 
> Its simple....
> 
> ...


Very well said mate


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Iv been on pc winny 50mg tabs for two weeks, joints have really dried out the last week on 50 mg a day, dont know how people do 100mg a day, would cripple me, feel like im cramping up, any ideas to help with this?


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## bulldogge (Jul 2, 2011)

lg abs said:


> Iv been on pc winny 50mg tabs for two weeks, joints have really dried out the last week on 50 mg a day, dont know how people do 100mg a day, would cripple me, feel like im cramping up, any ideas to help with this?


two things worked for me... a fcuk load of fish oils, and deca


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

lg abs said:


> Iv been on pc winny 50mg tabs for two weeks, joints have really dried out the last week on 50 mg a day, dont know how people do 100mg a day, would cripple me, feel like im cramping up, any ideas to help with this?


Wouldn't do any less than 100mg a day tbh.


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

I've tried a few oral cutting steroids - winstrol, anavar, and MHN (methyl hydroxy nandrolone).

I eel like winstrol puts on the most muscle, and its cheap. I didn't like it because it made my elbow tendons hurt. At first, I couldn't do curls, and after a few days I could barely hold weights in my hands. I find winnie makes my scalp itch, even just one a day. I struggled along with it, and did gain a bit of decent muscle and vascularity before I gave up. If you don't get these sides, I would say winnie is the best choice. But it's not for me.

I was worried that anavar would give me the same problems, but I'm fine with it. I used 100mg of ROHM anavar a day in a cycle, and my strength went through the roof. I wasn't dieting, but I lost fat from my midsection. I love anavar, but you need a high dose, and its expensive (the price has come down now that some labs are selling 50mg tabs).

I read that MHN was a potent cutting steroid. Adding a hydroxy group to nandrolone prevents it from aromatising, but makes it more potent. Its unable to form it's DHT-derivative (which is much weaker than nandrolone, and less androgenic than DHT). When you 17a-methylate a steroid to allow it to survive the liver, you usually make it more potent and more androgenic (eg methy test / test, dbol / boldenone). Hydroxy nandrolone is barely androgenic, so I thought methyl hydroxy nandrolone was worth a go.

I used geneza MHN, got nothing off it, and felt like it was making me a little watery, if anything.


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

AceofdSpadez is a geordie.

If I know the people of Newcastle, no way would he pretend to be from London. Cockneys get stick even if they save their local football club from bancruptsy, or if they wear a jacket when its not actually snowing.


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## capo (Jul 24, 2011)

Zorrin said:


> I've tried a few oral cutting steroids - winstrol, anavar, and MHN (methyl hydroxy nandrolone).
> 
> I eel like winstrol puts on the most muscle, and its cheap. I didn't like it because it made my elbow tendons hurt. At first, I couldn't do curls, and after a few days I could barely hold weights in my hands. I find winnie makes my scalp itch, even just one a day. I struggled along with it, and did gain a bit of decent muscle and vascularity before I gave up. If you don't get these sides, I would say winnie is the best choice. But it's not for me.
> 
> ...


What dosage did you use it at I ran it last year at 35mg and loved it ,never taken winny but it did to me what I would expect winny to do


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

capo said:


> What dosage did you use it at I ran it last year at 35mg and loved it ,never taken winny but it did to me what I would expect winny to do


I went up to 15mg of MHN a day (3 tabs). It was an oral "kickstop" at the end of a test E cycle, in the 3 weeks that the test was wearing off (up to PCT). I did feel like it was increasing my libido, when it should have been declining with my test levels. maybe I should have gone higher with it. Its supposed to be very potent,which is why they do it in splittable 5mg tabs. But its not.

I still have 21 MHN tabs left. Geneza orals look like sweeties. These are little light blue pentagons. I like their oral steroids, but if I buy them in the future, it will be from a british reseller. No more sending dollars by western union to Moldova, then waiting weeks and weeks for them to arrive.

My next 6 week cycle starts at the weekend - 6 weeks of test prop plus "leftovers". I have

21 MHN 5mg

25 ROHM anavar 50mg

80 Red Lion pharma winstrol 10mg

But I'm probably going to do 6 weeks of dianabol, with aromasin and tamoxifen. I have enough blue hearts for 50mg a day. I'm not dieting, so I guess its a bulker.

All the cutting steroids can wait until I next cut. I like the Atkins diet, but I rarely need to do it for more than 3 or 4 weeks. A 10ml vial of prochem onerip, with anavar, and 3 weeks of Atkins should have me ready for the beach.

The first week of an Atkins-style low carb diet is awful, you can eat as much protein and fat as you like, but you'd kill for half a twix. after that, it's brilliant. Steaks, protein shakes (has to be a low-lactose isolate), cheese, a chicken at nandos (no fries or rice), tandoori mixed grill and a pint of diet coke at the curry house, bacon and eggs, sugar-free jelly with double cream. Hard-boiled eggs, mini baby belles and peparamis as portable snacks.

mmm,,,,,double cream! gaagh (Homer Simpson noise)


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## capo (Jul 24, 2011)

That sounds like a nice little pick and mix , thought about doing atkins diet, do you cut out carbs completely or do you have a loading day and do you still eat to a calorie deficit ,sorry about all the questions but I keep getting conflicting information about it


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

On Atkins, you eat like a very hungry diabetic. Or a cat.

The first two weeks, you have to keep carbs below a tiny 20gs a day. Its no good for vegetarians, but perfect if you like your meat.

Fry-ups for breakfast. Steak and eggs for lunch. A whole chicken in the evening, with a bit of gravy. You're eating so much that you think "I can't possibly lose weight". But the fat falls off you, and you don't lose muscle because you're eating so much protein. I lose about a third of a stone a week. The first week, you use all your glycogen stores up, and wee a lot because glycogen is stored with water.

Forget training the first week. You have no energy. By week 2, you're feeling great. Your body has learned to burn fat for energy (ketosis), but your breath smells like a dog that hasn't had a bath. I add in stir-fried vegatable by the end of week 2. No root veg like spuds, obviously.

The problems with Atkins are snacks. I like sugar-free jelly with double cream. Nuts are OK, so I use peanuts to scoop up soft cheese. A few squares of very dark chocolate are OK. When you're in town and want a snack, it has to be nuts or cheese, or some kind of sausage.

I recommend you get a copy of "Atkins diet revolution" with the orange cover, and a little george foreman grill. By the end of the diet, you don't want to stop. Its absolutely no good for vegatarians.

I'm quite hardcore. Like a vegan, that eats meat. I can't eat lettuce and crackers.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Feelin-Big said:


> OK... 1st problem - These people you talk of have the 'balls' to put a photo up of themselves 1st then comment on their experiences. If someone else claims to have done something which we dont believe to be true we would ask for photo's. You however, hide behind your avi, claim to have the perfect diet, and claim that IFBB pro's say you would be good in competition because of your genetics, yet in a previous statement you say you dont have the genetics?!
> 
> Its simple....
> 
> ...


Lol you are actually pathetic...

Ill just explain this for the last time for you, as your clearly dumb as a brick, iam NOT hiding behind my avi, i have said several times I will post up photos, im not in London with my camera and have gone away for a few days if you must know.

I will do so when i get back so I can put this stupid conversation to rest and individuals like you can just not give people a hard time.

I do have a perfect diet, i do train incredibly hard, THIS DOES NOT MEAN I HAVE TO BE 15 STONE AND 8% BF..... I can still train hard, have a good diet, and not be huge, many other individuals on here run AAS safely, have a great diet, and are not 5 stone heavier than me.

That is what you need to understand, which you clearly cant grasp the concept of.

I really suggest you read the post in which I replied to aus, maybe read through it as many times as you need to, to grasp what im getting at.

Untill then, i will post up photos when I get a chance, even though I have absolutly nothing to prove, and if you want to call it BS i honestly honestly honestly could not care less if i tried seriously.....


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Zorrin said:


> AceofdSpadez is a geordie.
> 
> If I know the people of Newcastle, no way would he pretend to be from London. Cockneys get stick even if they save their local football club from bancruptsy, or if they wear a jacket when its not actually snowing.


Not sure why people think im this guy, im from London born and bred for my whole life.

Would probably commit suicide if I had a geordie accent sorry


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

lewishart said:


> Lol you are actually *pathetic...*
> 
> *Ill just explain this for the last time for you, as your clearly dumb as a brick*, iam NOT hiding behind my avi, i have said several times I will post up photos, im not in London with my camera and have gone away for a few days if you must know.
> 
> ...




buddy, just relax. you have to expect people to be cynical because of all the claims you make about perfect diet and training, repeated cycles, heavy aas use yet being only 69kg and a PT. you gotta understand this.


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

I'd go for 100mg a day


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

m118 said:


> buddy, just relax. you have to expect people to be cynical because of all the claims you make about perfect diet and training, repeated cycles, heavy aas use yet being only 69kg and a PT. you gotta understand this.


I do completly apriciate it, and this guy keeps on going on and on about it,

Ive said ill stick up a photo just to stick this to rest about 3 times now, several post ago, and yet still he goes on and on about it - massaging his ego over on a forum lol... and i do think is pathetic.

Ive made claims, a few individuals dont believe me, and what they dont understand is why would I say this? To show off to a bunch of lads i dont know through a hole in the wall?

Just makes no sense, ive said ill stick a few flicks up when I get a chance - many times.....


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

BONE said:


> What height are you mate? Coz all that gear at 11stone you sure cant be over 5ft 5" right?


You really dont need to be looking at this age height weight thing.

It doesnt matter, yes there are recommended weights for certain heights. however ive been light for a long time.

Im 5'7


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

BONE said:


> What height are you mate? Coz all that gear at 11stone you sure cant be over 5ft 5" right?


And the amount of gear you take doesnt bare any resemblence on your weight or height.

Look at branch warren hes 5'5, and probably runs in excess of 3gs a week of his gear in total.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

lewishart said:


> And the amount of gear you take doesnt bare any resemblence on your weight or height.
> 
> Look at branch warren hes 5'5, and probably runs in excess of 3gs a week of his gear in total.


i dunno... a midget compared to a man who's 6'0+.....


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Branch Warren is an olympian your a jumped up PT, huge difference I think!!


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

m118 said:


> i dunno... a midget compared to a man who's 6'0+.....


Thats great. Go on about my height then if it makes you sleep better at night.

You shouldnt really concern yourself imo with my training,height,or aas usage.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> Branch Warren is an olympian your a jumped up PT, huge difference I think!!


Jumped up? what does that mean?

Are you just assuming that im not going to defend myself when I have a bunch of guys slating me for stating some excelent gains that ive made on cycle.

Pathetic if you ask me.


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

lewishart said:


> And the amount of gear you take doesnt bare any resemblence on your weight or height.
> 
> Look at branch warren hes 5'5, and probably runs in excess of 3gs a week of his gear in total.


Quality thread.

I don't care how "ripped" you are, all that gear at 11 stone is a pi55 take.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

lewishart said:


> Jumped up? what does that mean?
> 
> Are you just assuming that im not going to defend myself when I have a bunch of guys slating me for stating some excelent gains that ive made on cycle.
> 
> Pathetic if you ask me.


I'm not disputing that you have made some good gains so far but like I said earlier 8kg of pure muscle and a drop of 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks is *PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE* with whatever steroids etc you use.

If you swapped your protein shakes for cement then maybe you would see an increase on such a major scale but it still doesn't equate to *MUSCLE*


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

NoGutsNoGlory said:


> Quality thread.
> 
> I don't care how "ripped" you are, all that gear at 11 stone is a pi55 take.


Well first off all, im running this cycle with a higher dose to see how i respond to it. My previous cycles I havent ran more than a few hundred mg of any hard compouds such as tren etc.

Ive ran it this time as ive mentioned to see how I reacted and grew and if a higher dose is worthwhile.

Obviously have done well to be honest - apparently too well for people to believe and assume im lying lol.

I really dont see why any amount of gear you take at any weight makes any difference, there obviously are many individuals on here who have started off their training at 13 stone with a hefty build - I unfortunately haven't got that and I started off relatively light.

It does not bare any resemblance on the dosages that I take to be honest.

I dont respond massively well to low dosages like ive tried thus far so ive opted to try something different.

I honestly do not see the problem here.....


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> I'm not disputing that you have made some good gains so far but like I said earlier 8kg of pure muscle and a drop of 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks is *PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE* with whatever steroids etc you use.
> 
> If you swapped your protein shakes for cement then maybe you would see an increase on such a major scale but it still doesn't equate to *MUSCLE*


Sorry bud, it was actually a typo, i meant to write 2.5% bf not 3.5.

Never the less, ive made the gains ive made, and i stand by them, end of story really isnt it.

You say its impossible, i say ive gained that much, you will still say its impossible... and i will still say ive gained that much.

Never ending discussion to be fair.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

I have no issue with whatever doses you use mate, just that you need to understand the difference in weight gain and muscle gain


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

lewishart said:


> You really dont need to be looking at this age height weight thing.
> 
> It doesnt matter, yes there are recommended weights for certain heights. however ive been light for a long time.
> 
> Im 5'7


If you "really, really, really" don't care, why keep defending yourself and going on the attack?

Just leave it and post the pics, although its hard to believe anyone who trains as hard as you do and is that proud of results hasn't got some on their phone? I have and posted them and I'm far from proud of mine


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm with g-man.

Muscle tissue just doesn't grow that fast. Fact. Basic stuff mate.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> I have no issue with whatever doses you use mate, just that you need to understand the difference in weight gain and muscle gain


Good to hear, because many others seem to have a big problem with it. Its up to me and im doing it safely and educated.

I understand partially YES the gains i have had are probably going to be a bit of water.

Im going by how i look in the mirror, ive been eating a lot of healthy fish and brown rice, has thinned my skin a lot and im in good condition, i cant see that a lot of the gain is water but i will admit partially yes it will be water.

However, im in good condiion.


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Kimball said:


> If you "really, really, really" don't care, why keep defending yourself and going on the attack?
> 
> Just leave it and post the pics, although its hard to believe anyone who trains as hard as you do and is that proud of results hasn't got some on their phone? I have and posted them and I'm far from proud of mine


Correct, i dont care, couldnt care less. Im not going 'on the attack' lol mate, im defending myself as individuals are just slating me for the gains ive made.

Im always going to defend myself regardless if i care or not...


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## Kimball (Feb 26, 2012)

That's because you care, lol.


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## HVYDUTY100 (Sep 4, 2010)

8kg of muscle and a drop of 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks.... I look forward to seeing your pics if you can put them up mate, people are going to find that hard to believe without any proof including me. Also from reading your posts you say your diets perfect and you are clued up on training and AAS, i expected you to be more than 11-12 stone at 9% bodyfat. Put some pics up if you can mate would be good to see.


----------



## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

lewishart said:


> Correct, i dont care, couldnt care less. Im not going 'on the attack' lol mate, im defending myself as individuals are just slating me for the gains ive made.
> 
> Im always going to defend myself regardless if i care or not...


Its ok... dont bother defending yourself... youve already dug your hole.

Some pics might of helped but as you keep saying... 'they are coming'.

Please can you send me your diet as i would like to compare your 'perfect diet' with mine and see what i need to change? Weights would be nicce too, obviously....


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Feelin-Big said:


> Its ok... dont bother defending yourself... youve already dug your hole.
> 
> Some pics might of helped but as you keep saying... 'they are coming'.
> 
> Please can you send me your diet as i would like to compare your 'perfect diet' with mine and see what i need to change? Weights would be nicce too, obviously....


Do you really think i would bother wasting my time with a individual who has just insulted me and spoken to me like im a child? I think not mate...

How can I dig a hole into something thats true.

I wouldnt even bother sending you my weight that im pressing/pushing/pulling etc because it constantly changes obviously according to my diet that day and general energy levels.

My stregnth is naturally very good anyway, I dont find it hard to lift big weight with good form, regardless of my weight.

On average though my weight is as follows for a full set of 12 + reps with a good diet for the day:

bench free 120kg - smith 140kg

incline free 120kg - smith 140kg

deadlift 160kg

squat 120kg

military press on smith 120kg and free is 75kg ish

dumbell shoulder press is 40kg each dumbell

i wont bother listing arms or anything silly like that because you dont have to lift heavy to gain size.

I will bother listing my diet to you when your attitude is a bit better with me


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## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

HVYDUTY100 said:


> 8kg of muscle and a drop of 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks.... I look forward to seeing your pics if you can put them up mate, people are going to find that hard to believe without any proof including me. Also from reading your posts you say your diets perfect and you are clued up on training and AAS, i expected you to be more than 11-12 stone at 9% bodyfat. Put some pics up if you can mate would be good to see.


No problem, im away for a few days up north but when im back in london ill take a few flicks and stick them up.

7kg around abouts, 2.5% bf not 3.5 it was a typo and my scale weighs in stone and its analogue so i cant obviously be exact im sure you can appreciate that

You would expect me to be heavier, in complete honesty, ive always found it troublesome adding a lot of weight onto the scale, maybe ive got not hugely dense bones i guess.

But the size that ive gained is quality and conditioned muscle, im happy with that to be honest, would much rather be 11 stone and look how i do now than 14 stone and not conditioned at all.


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

Feelin-Big said:


> Its ok... dont bother defending yourself... youve already dug your hole.
> 
> Some pics might of helped but as you keep saying... 'they are coming'.
> 
> Please can you send me your diet as i would like to compare your 'perfect diet' with mine and see what i need to change? Weights would be nicce too, obviously....


Also mate, stick up a photo of yourself then, as your seem to be so incredibly critical of others when realised you probably look like youve never stepped into a gym.

I dont like your attitude towards me so drop it and be a bit more respectful and maybe you will find that I wont reply in a way that will make you think i actually care.

End of story.


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

lewishart said:


> No problem, im away for a few days up north but when im back in london ill take a few flicks and stick them up.
> 
> 7kg around abouts, 2.5% bf not 3.5 it was a typo and my scale weighs in stone and its analogue so i cant obviously be exact im sure you can appreciate that
> 
> ...


mate, you gotta be taking the whizz. a few posts earlier you said that your training and diet is perfect and most importantly... you put on muscle really easily

i would suggest easing off the posting until you post the pics up. you seem to be inadvertantly just digging a deeper hole


----------



## bayman (Feb 27, 2010)

lewishart said:


> *My stregnth is naturally very good anyway*, I dont find it hard to lift big weight with good form, regardless of my weight.
> 
> On average though my weight is as follows for a full set of 12 + reps with a good diet for the day:
> 
> ...


Dude, i'm not here to hate, but seriously, those numbers are NOTHING to write home about regardless of your size. Especially given the volume of AAS you're running.

Stop digging, it's painful to watch and you're not doing yourself any favours.

I'm trying to help you see some sense here.


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

bayman said:


> Dude, i'm not here to hate, but seriously, those numbers are NOTHING to write home about regardless of your size. Especially given the volume of AAS you're running.
> 
> Stop digging, it's painful to watch and you're not doing yourself any favours.
> 
> I'm trying to help you see some sense here.


I was asked for my weight stats, i just gave them, i dont train for strength, i train for size.

A bodybuilder is never meant to be incredibly strong anyway.

The volume of AAS im running, which lets be honest 700mg of test per week and the same on tren, is not that higher dosages imo.

Plenty of individuals on here are running far more than that, doesnt mean that they are going to get stronger the more gear they take.

Thanks honestly for pointing stuff out to me.

Im not here to look for a argument im merely defending myself as anyone else would.

Im not digging a hole into something that is total truth.


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

m118 said:


> mate, you gotta be taking the whizz. a few posts earlier you said that your training and diet is perfect and most importantly... you put on muscle really easily
> 
> i would suggest easing off the posting until you post the pics up. you seem to be inadvertantly just digging a deeper hole


My training and diet are near enough perfect I would consider yes.

Regardless of that ive gained pretty well at the start of my cycle, however, weigh on the scale isnt always the easiest thing for me to put on.

This is total honesty, i add muscle, in my eyes, relatively easily, providing all the factors of rest and training and diet of course are in place, this past few weeks they have been spot on.

But in general without a few of the above factors nailed, yes i find it a bit difficult to pack on lbs on the scale.


----------



## lewishart (Mar 13, 2012)

bayman said:


> Dude, i'm not here to hate, but seriously, those numbers are NOTHING to write home about regardless of your size. Especially given the volume of AAS you're running.
> 
> Stop digging, it's painful to watch and you're not doing yourself any favours.
> 
> I'm trying to help you see some sense here.


And in my opinion, im not posting those numbers for anyone to slate me, every aspect i write about myself seems to get a bad remark.

The numbers ive wrote that i lift, i think are personally quite good and as mentioned i dont train for strength.

Regardless, ill carry on doing what im doing, im not here to impress anybody, clearly im not anyway. Im just doing my own thing and it happens to be working well for me at this current point in time - being that all the factors needed to gain size are in place... currently.


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BONE said:


> 11 stone and your on 2.1g of injectables and orals,





lewishart said:


> *I find weight gain to be extremely easy when ive got a perfect diet*, and for the past 2.5 weeks my diet has been completly spot on, meals every 2.5 hours, high levels of protien low GI carbs etc etc
> 
> Im running 700mg test prop, 700mg mast prop, 700mg tren, 50mg dbol ED for my cycle.
> 
> And dont give me this, pictures or its a lie, just because some individuals on here cant gain 2lbs across a cycle and i can gain well, ive been training for years and have a perfect diet, not to mention im a PT so I have a advantage there.


i keep coming back to this..

years of training, multiple cycles, a *gain of 8kg*.... and still 69kg?? so you started this cycle at 61kg?, despite previous cycles and 2 years of training??? WTF?? and you say above you gain weight easily??? F**K me whats a hard gainer?? :lol:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

m118 said:


> i would suggest easing off the posting until you post the pics up. you seem to be inadvertantly just digging a deeper hole


dude, he"s 69kg... with a perfect diet of whatever mummy puts in front of him.... and the only lift he does is his nutsack when he thinks of EB without a shirt..

why would we need to see pics of someone whos 69kg?? my girl in the avi went from 61kg to 69kg (5'7")with 7 weeks of deca, and squats as much as him! LOL i personally don't need to see a pic of some nube who dreams of being man enough to pin himself! :lol:


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## m118 (Feb 4, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> dude, he"s 69kg... with a perfect diet of whatever mummy puts in front of him.... and the only lift he does is his nutsack when he thinks of EB without a shirt..
> 
> why would we need to see pics of someone whos 69kg?? my girl in the avi went from 61kg to 69kg (5'7")with 7 weeks of deca, and squats as much as him! LOL i personally don't need to see a pic of some nube who dreams of being man enough to pin himself! :lol:


loool

im trying to give him an out and stop digging a deeper hole.. but he keeps posting


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## Feelin-Big (Apr 12, 2011)

lewishart said:


> I was asked for my weight stats, i just gave them, i dont train for strength, i train for size.
> 
> A bodybuilder is never meant to be incredibly strong anyway.
> 
> ...


I'll quite happily post photo's of myself, soon i will be doing a journal... But you are forgetting one small factor... I'm not the one making the claims or boasting... you are.

To be honest, im bored of hearing your excuses. Youve dug your hole and we dont need photo's as we have imaginations to do the job for us.



Maybe you should ask Ausbuilt if his girl needs a training partner, you may even look better than you already do then?


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

How come you can bench more than you can squat?


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## Ballin (Aug 24, 2011)

Currently weighing up which to run as I'm looking to cut after holiday.

Do either give you pumps that stop you from running or other cardiovascular? I ran SD on a bulk and after 3 mins my back and calves seized up really painfully

Ps did pics ever appear?!?


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## ryanryan (Jun 2, 2012)

Mate, you sure know how to dig yourself a deep hole.

You don't seem to make any sense either, how do you add muscle easily; but can't add weight? Just a stupid thing to say.

Your strength and size is embarrasing considering your experience and AAS use.

I had those lifts and was slightly bigger at 16 with 6 months training and no aas use.

You keep saying you have a 'perfect' diet, but it seems like you have no variety.

Good luck with your fitness goals and everything but you seem like an arrogant liar to ve true.


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## vodkalol (May 17, 2012)

I still see no pics!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Aaron20 said:


> And are you saying then that in fact Winstrol and Anavar both don't help you retain muscle? They are just muscle hardeners then?


they actually do, and very well. They are not "hardeners" theres no such thing. As you get leaner, your muscle will be fat free and hard. this is diet related.



lewishart said:


> Thats like saying if i jabbed 2000mg week would it be the same as 500mg/week of tren... no, they are completly different compounds and retain completly different charactistics.
> 
> As i mentioned anyway, both of the above var and winny are pointless if your looking to cut and your diet is pants IMO.
> 
> ...


this is rubbish. In fact when it comes to retaining muscle on low cals, var is very good, and Primobolan even better, as this is what they are designed for- to help undernourished women and children (either from malnutrition, or from trauma/surgery/burns)



lewishart said:


> Also winny has a tendency to dry up your joints, and jacking up the dose on winny from 50 - 100mg wont nessessarily benefit you, probably will just end up making your elbows and knees grind.
> 
> Word of advise, if you decide to go down the winny route, supplement with some glucosamine sulphate, you can get it at any heath food shop, h&b etc..
> 
> Great for lubing up joints and improving them all round really.


this is bro science. Winny does not cause more joint problems than anavar or primobolan- they are all DHT derivatives, and they all do not aromatise, nor retain water. When you cut, your overall low body fat levels will be the cause of the joint issues.

have a look at this information about the knee joint as an example:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drsquat12.htm

you will notice that its the bursa, adipose tissue (fat) and Cartilage which are important regarding friction- there is NO evidence that winny affects ANY of these more than any other AAS- in fact all DHT derived AAS may help reduce the fat level. THats it.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Just been through all 9pages. This has been very entertaining.

PS aus, very offended that I am less of a man, because I am too pu55y to pin!


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

So, where are these pics????!!!!


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## Itchy Nips (Jan 4, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> So, where are these pics????!!!!


cant wait to see them either


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

^


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## hotchy (Aug 20, 2009)

Ffs no pics I just read 13 pages excited to see this machine. By now he's gained so much he can't type without breaking his keyboard with his incredibly large lifts. Maybe he's now binge eating, crying in the corner of his room, or to save further embarrassment changed his user name :lol:


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## nellsuk (Dec 18, 2010)

Being a Geordie, I didn't like the little runts comments towards "commiting suicide if I had a geordie accent", good job he's only 11 stone coz I wouldnt like to hit anyone of a young girls proportions....saying that at his self proclaimed growth rate, he should be ready for a slap in about 6 weeks:bounce:

Nells


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## deano (Feb 22, 2009)

The pics never arrived then lol.


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## JusNoGood (Apr 4, 2011)

I originally missed this thread...glad I just found it tho. Just been through all 9 pages.

How can you possibly say you put on weight easy then say you're 11stone...even if you're 5'2 or whatever you are. Come on where are the fcuking pics boyo :laugh: :wacko:


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

Great thread for info and giggles. I'm 5'6 and stronger and bigger as a natty. Currently cutting from 78.5 and want to get sub 10% at 75kg.

Im a life time natty and want to save pinning for a bulk. Should I hit an oral whilst on a cut or save it? I would like to keep moving my strength up. I was thinking tbol or possibly var, but this thread has made me think alpha pharma winny is the way


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Var is great for ladies,winny is great,i use proviron to help it along,however Aus for me after 3 weeks it does make my joints a bit stiff,or is that my age? 

Hay the best'hardner'is the little blue pill,,,,,


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## Lmc (May 18, 2012)

Add Title


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

simonthepieman said:


> Great thread for info and giggles. I'm 5'6 and stronger and bigger as a natty. Currently cutting from 78.5 and want to get sub 10% at 75kg.
> 
> Im a life time natty and want to save pinning for a bulk. Should I hit an oral whilst on a cut or save it? I would like to keep moving my strength up. I was thinking tbol or possibly var, but this thread has made me think alpha pharma winny is the way


dude, AAS is more important while cutting than bulking... because even comp BBs lose SOME muscle when they diet down to 3-4% but you CAN"T lose muscle on a bulk... everything is in excess....

besides, pinning/oral debate is a bit silly now- you can get BSI water based Winny- you can pin it with a 30gx8mm 'slin pin either IM (and get REAL, SITE growth from local absorption with no ester, and NO first pass of the liver- this is real science); why would you take an oral??? By the way, the bio-availability of the pinned winny is MUCH higher than the oral... so MORE bang for the buck..



biglbs said:


> Var is great for ladies,winny is great,i use proviron to help it along,however Aus for me after 3 weeks it does make my joints a bit stiff,or is that my age?
> 
> Hay the best'hardner'is the little blue pill,,,,,


could be age related; however, as above- if you PIN the BSI winny, you could get away with 50mg/day, and have less sides than swallowing 80-100g...

actually PGE-1 is THE best hardner- trade name Caver-ject; yes PIN your cock with the same 30g needle- and get a boner for 4 hours... that doesnt go down..


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## mattske (Oct 2, 2012)

I just wasted the last 20 minutes of my life.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

I still remember the gains from my first, uneducated cycle. Best gains ever in terms of size, cut and fat loss. I went from a horrible lardass to really nice in 4 months. I dont remember in terms of KG how much it was before and after, but the transformation was phenomenal. I did many other cycles afterwards, but the first onewas the most impressive. I am sure as hell that right now *I* and I am specifying first person singular, will never ever achieve a 7-8 KG lean tissue gain in 2 weeks, but hey, that's me!


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

In response to the original question, I wouldn't take winstrol by itself. If you have to take AAS, do a proper cycle and see the benefits of it, assuming that the most important things, which are 1) Diet and 2) Training are perfectly spot on.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> I still remember the gains from my first, uneducated cycle. Best gains ever in terms of size, cut and fat loss. I went from a horrible lardass to really nice in 4 months. I dont remember in terms of KG how much it was before and after, but the transformation was phenomenal. I did many other cycles afterwards, but the first onewas the most impressive. I am sure as hell that right now *I* and I am specifying first person singular, will never ever achieve a 7-8 KG lean tissue gain in 2 weeks, but hey, that's me!


x2

I'm saddened at the "wasted" opportunity of amazing gains from at least a reasonable stack for a first cycle; you're right, you never get same gain again.. also true is the younger you are, the better the gains... as you age, the gains per mg are noticeably reduced..



TheMeatWagon said:


> In response to the original question, I wouldn't take winstrol by itself. If you have to take AAS, do a proper cycle and see the benefits of it, assuming that the most important things, which are 1) Diet and 2) Training are perfectly spot on.


great advice- you may be new on here, but a good start with posts! you seem to have some decent experience behind you..


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## Zorrin (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm using a lot of DHTs this week - test prop with mast prop, 100mg anavar, and a few winstrol thrown in. My abs are getting plenty of workouts, and I had a decent weights session this evening, in spite of a virtually zero calorific intake for 4 days.I keep forgetting the winstrol, then remembering them and having a few

I'm going a bit nuts now, benzos are starting to kick in and I'm going to have to crash in bed next to my sobbing Mrs. I'm going to keep posting, you can enjoy my gradually deteriorating mental condition until i fall asleep and get candle wax on me.

I swear that my wife offered to bring one of her thai escorts in, watch me have sex with the girl, then let me watch them. Now she's pretending that it was my suggestion, and I'm so sleep deprived that I'm starting to doubt myself. Ausbuildt will confirm that my wife's "interested in" on Facebook still says "Men and women". Tell me I didn't imagine it.


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## Richyk (Jun 28, 2012)

lewishart said:


> Var sh*ts on winny hands down...
> 
> 100mg ED of anavar is the absolute dogs mate.
> 
> ...


Why wouldnt you recommend tren mate??


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Zorrin said:


> I'm using a lot of DHTs this week - test prop with mast prop, 100mg anavar, and a few winstrol thrown in. My abs are getting plenty of workouts, and I had a decent weights session this evening, in spite of a virtually zero calorific intake for 4 days.I keep forgetting the winstrol, then remembering them and having a few
> 
> I'm going a bit nuts now, benzos are starting to kick in and I'm going to have to crash in bed next to my sobbing Mrs. I'm going to keep posting, you can enjoy my gradually deteriorating mental condition until i fall asleep and get candle wax on me.
> 
> I swear that my wife offered to bring one of her thai escorts in, watch me have sex with the girl, then let me watch them. Now she's pretending that it was my suggestion, and I'm so sleep deprived that I'm starting to doubt myself. Ausbuildt will confirm that my wife's "interested in" on Facebook still says "Men and women". Tell me I didn't imagine it.


Dude... What the f are you doing? You're hurting yourself bad.


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## biglbs (Jan 26, 2012)

Zorrin said:


> I'm using a lot of DHTs this week - test prop with mast prop, 100mg anavar, and a few winstrol thrown in. My abs are getting plenty of workouts, and I had a decent weights session this evening, in spite of a virtually zero calorific intake for 4 days.I keep forgetting the winstrol, then remembering them and having a few
> 
> I'm going a bit nuts now, benzos are starting to kick in and I'm going to have to crash in bed next to my sobbing Mrs. I'm going to keep posting, you can enjoy my gradually deteriorating mental condition until i fall asleep and get candle wax on me.
> 
> I swear that my wife offered to bring one of her thai escorts in, watch me have sex with the girl, then let me watch them. Now she's pretending that it was my suggestion, and I'm so sleep deprived that I'm starting to doubt myself. Ausbuildt will confirm that my wife's "interested in" on Facebook still says "Men and women". Tell me I didn't imagine it.


Wait until the skirting board men come out with their purple dust and play dustball,then you're gettin it on....


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