# Dorian Yates.Blood and Guts Routine.Anyone used this?



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

If so did it work for you?


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

My go-to training style :thumbup1: There's a heavy emphasis on getting stronger via "beating the logbook" as well as being heavily hypertrophy focussed.

You don't have to have a training partner; the basis is, do your warmup sets if any, then one set to all out positive failure, and finish the set with an intensity technique - Dorian obviously mostly uses forced reps (using a partner to provide a little assistance to get out a few more reps once failure is reached), but you can also use dropsets, cheat reps, rest-pause, partials or other techniques.

Dropsets are my preferred method, you've done to heavyish training to moderate reps on the main set so to finish with a dropset for some fatigue-based pump-training means you're getting the best of both worlds. I use cheat reps or partials on some exercises as well.

That routine I showed you yesterday actually, is heavily based off of one of Dorians early routines http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/getting-started/277303-dorian-yates-beginner-intermediate-routines.html?highlight=


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

> My go-to training style 1: There's a heavy emphasis on getting stronger via "beating the logbook" as well as being heavily hypertrophy focussed.
> 
> You don't have to have a training partner; the basis is, do your warmup sets if any, then one set to all out positive failure, and finish the set with an intensity technique - Dorian obviously mostly uses forced reps (using a partner to provide a little assistance to get out a few more reps once failure is reached), but you can also use dropsets, cheat reps, rest-pause, partials or other techniques.
> 
> ...


It's hard to get my head around that so few sets could build you up lol.


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

Felon bro you're on a mad one lol. Just pick something and be consistent man


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

TommyBananas said:


> Felon bro you're on a mad one lol. Just pick something and be consistent man


I just wanna find somethin that would be most beneficial for me. I stuck to 5 day split for 2 yrs. Just exploring lol


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## TommyBananas (Nov 23, 2014)

FelonE said:


> I just wanna find somethin that would be most beneficial for me. I stuck to 5 day split for 2 yrs. Just exploring lol


There is other five day routines which are good high frequency and five days.

Layne Nortons PHAT - Mega Feature: Layne Norton Training Series + Full Power/Hypertrophy Routine (Updated 2011) | SimplyShredded.com


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

FelonE said:


> It's hard to get my head around that so few sets could build you up lol.


There's a saying coined by Mike Mentzer that's relevant here - "You can train hard, or you can train long... but you can't do both". In other words, if you're doing low volume routines like this, you need to go to absolute balls-to-the-wall failure. if you do that on your one workset and your intensity techniue, the muscle will have recieved the stimulus needed to grow :thumbup1: Such a low number of sets might look easy, but if you perform them properly, to true failure, then you'll be ****ed by the end of the workout :laugh:

I don't think most people know what real failure is, must admit I didn't until I started getting into Dorian's philosophies and applying them to my own workouts. Your last rep should look like this:






You don't necessarily have to stick to Dorians 4 day split, HIT is a training style rather than a routine. You could take any good hypertrophy routine, scrap its rep/set scheme and replace it with HIT principles. So if you wanted to go with a PPL or upper/lower split but train under HIT principles, that's fine.


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

take a week to work out your weights and get a spotter for some of the positive presses at the heavy set. if you take it serious it works a treat, in and out in about 25-30 min and 40 min for legs, takes a while to get full weight up from the lack of rest but its still what my training is based around


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> I'd question how many people can train at the intensity to make it work. Don't even bother unless you have a good training partner


Semi-agree, obviously if you don't have a spotter then there are certain exercises you wouldn't be doing for you own safety, but then that applies to any routine using heavy weights tbf. For example instead of benching you can dumbbell bench which I find to be a much more efficient chest builder anyway personally, and if you have safety bars to catch the weight on movements like squats then fire away (even the best of spotters ain't gonna be able to help you very much when you fail a heavy set of squats). Though yeah, I can personally vouch for the rountine's effectiveness and safety without the use of a training partner, you just have to use a bit of common sense and not do exercises where you ARE going to get pinned under if you train to failure and have no spotter or safety pins.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

I said:


> Semi-agree' date=' obviously if you don't have a spotter then there are certain exercises you wouldn't be doing for you own safety, but then that applies to any routine using heavy weights tbf. For example instead of benching you can dumbbell bench which I find to be a much more efficient chest builder anyway personally, and if you have safety bars to catch the weight on movements like squats then fire away (even the best of spotters ain't gonna be able to help you very much when you fail a heavy set of squats). Though yeah, I can personally vouch for the rountine's effectiveness and safety without the use of a training partner, you just have to use a bit of common sense and not do exercises where you ARE going to get pinned under if you train to failure and have no spotter or safety pins.[/quote']
> 
> I've always trained alone and quite a few times on my last rep of bench someone has run over and tried to take the bar.They get told to fvck off.My last rep is always a life or death experience lol.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

You need to have the mental strength to be able to push yourself so much further than your body is normally prepared to go. When you think you can do no more you have to be able to dig deep and eke out another 2/3 reps every time. Some people can do this, some can't. If you're in the first group it will work well for you. Until recently I very, very rarely exceeded 15 sets for an entire workout. Why do more, and eat into your recovery?


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Mingster said:


> You need to have the mental strength to be able to push yourself so much further than your body is normally prepared to go. When you think you can do no more you have to be able to dig deep and eke out another 2/3 reps every time. Some people can do this, some can't. If you're in the first group it will work well for you. Until recently I very, very rarely exceeded 15 sets for an entire workout. Why do more, and eat into your recovery?


I was doing 36 sets(more for legs) on most things.Which did work for me until now.I put on 3 stone of lbm in 2years natty.I know newbie gains would account for a lot of that but it did set me up well.It's not working now though.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> Not sure you fully understood what I ment? Have you ever had a training session with Dorian? Everyone thinks they train with high intensity but from what I see in most gyms then very few people could make HIT work.
> 
> Training partner is for more than just safety but to push you.


If you can't push yourself to your maximum capacity without a partner egging you on, then you're mentally weak IMO. My last rep on every exercise I do is a 5+ second, pushing, shaking, grunting, gritting-of-teeth type of rep and I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to hit another rep if I tried (and sometimes I do try, and force the muscle to contract against an immoveable sticking point for about 5-10 seconds, I suppose as if to send a message to the body saying "See, you're not strong enough to get that 8th rep, better get stronger for next time").

I get my motivation to push myself to my limit from looking at my spreadsheet and thinking "Right, I forced out 8 reps last time I did this exercise - today, I will do 9 reps". I know the feeling of disappointment I get if I don't hit my target, so I'll be trying my best to make sure that doesn't happen, simple as. Obviously, cheating on form to sneak in another rep doesn't count; forcing a contraction against the sticking point until the weight moves, is the key.


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

> If you can't push yourself to your maximum capacity without a partner egging you on, then you're mentally weak IMO. My last rep on every exercise I do is a 5+ second, pushing, shaking, grunting, gritting-of-teeth type of rep and I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to hit another rep if I tried (and sometimes I do try, and force the muscle to contract against an immoveable sticking point for about 10 seconds, i suppose as if to send a message to the body saying "See, you're not strong enough to get that 8th rep, better get stronger for next time").
> 
> I get my motivation to push mysef to my limit from looking at my spreadsheet and thinking "Right, I focred out 8 reps last time I did this exercise - today, I will get 9". I know the feeling of disappointment I get if I don't hit my target, so I'll be trying my best to make sure that doesn't happen, simple as. Obviously, cheating on form to sneak in another rep doesn't count; forcing a contraction against the sticking point until the weight moves, is the key.


part of dorians training is to "cheat" though, he advises forced positive and controlled negative, so a partner is needed to follow his routine exactly most the time.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

FelonE said:


> I was doing 36 sets(more for legs) on most things.Which did work for me until now.I put on 3 stone of lbm in 2years natty.I know newbie gains would account for a lot of that but it did set me up well.It's not working now though.


You can only keep pushing things for so long. The law of diminishing returns applies. As the weight lifted goes up, something must come down. This can be either workout frequency, volume, or speed between sets. It stands to reason; if you squat 300kg you need more rest between sets than you do if you squat 200kg. Once you get beyond the beginning lifter phase this law comes into effect. As Mike Mentzer says you can't have volume and intensity, not in the true meaning of the terms anyway.

I've suggested a few routines on here over the years that I've used to add 100lbs to my frame. Mostly for powerlifting, admittedly, but there are plenty of powerlifters in good shape, although some would have you think otherwise. Whichever routine it is, there are two main rules I follow. 1. Never exceed 15 sets. 2. Don't do any unnecessary sets or reps.

You see people doing 4 working sets of 10. Fair dues it works for some people, but what you should be asking is why will it work for me? If you use the same weight each set then you must be training within yourself for the first 3 sets at least. Wouldn't doing 1 set of 15 and 1 set of 11/12 to absolute failure work yourself harder? If you have the mental strength it will.

I can't understand how people have arm days. After 3/4 sets of arms I can't pick up my car keys let alone weights for another 20 sets.

Disclaimer for anyone reading my current journal: This isn't how I've been training for the last 6 months or so. I've stopped trying to get any bigger these days lol.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

I said:


> There's a saying coined by Mike Mentzer that's relevant here - "You can train hard' date=' or you can train long... but you can't do both". In other words, if you're doing low volume routines like this, you need to go to absolute balls-to-the-wall failure. if you do that on your one workset and your intensity techniue, the muscle will have recieved the stimulus needed to grow :thumbup1: Such a low number of sets might look easy, but if you perform them properly, to true failure, then you'll be ****ed by the end of the workout :laugh:
> 
> I don't think most people know what real failure is, must admit I didn't until I started getting into Dorian's philosophies and applying them to my own workouts. Your last rep should look like this:
> 
> ...


dont think anyone trained as hard as DY? Fecking leg end


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Boshlop said:


> part of dorians training is to "cheat" though, he advises forced positive and controlled negative, so a partner is needed to follow his routine exactly most the time.


Oh yeah, don't misunderstand what I'm saying there - a lot of people cheat before they've even hit positive failure on their own. The idea of Dorian's routine is to hit positive failure on your own first, before then either being assisted in some "forced reps" or by using another intensity technique. You can use cheap-reps on barbell curls all you like once you've hit failure, but the idea is to hit positive failure first before taking the set beyond failure. Doesn't matter how you go beyond failure - you can use forced reps, cheat reps, dropsets, rest-pause, partials, and Dorian himself can be seen using pretty much all of these techniques either on himself or people he has trained - it's just all about going to complete positive failure, then finish the muscle off by going beyond failure with an intensity technique of your choice.


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

One of the many training philosophies I'll use and advocate. Do it and stick with it for at least 12 weeks.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

AlQaholic said:


> All you had to say was no lol


So just say "no" or "I disagree" without explaining why? No point in even replying then :laugh:


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

I said:


> Oh yeah' date=' don't misunderstand what I'm saying there - a lot of people cheat before they've even hit positive failure on their own. The idea of Dorian's routine is to hit positive failure on your own first, before then either being assisted in some "forced reps" or by using another intensity technique. You can use cheap-reps on barbell curls all you like once you've hit failure, but the idea is to hit positive failure first before taking the set [i']beyond failure. Doesn't matter how you go beyond failure - you can use forced reps, cheat reps, dropsets, rest-pause, partials, and Dorian himself can be seen using pretty much all of these techniques either on himself or people he has trained - it's just all about going to complete positive failure, then finish the muscle off by going beyond failure with an intensity technique of your choice.


i've used his routine for about a year now, i get the basics :whistling: i just assume everyone one knows what real failure is before i realise most people dont know what an actual working set is most the time...


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Boshlop said:


> i've used his routine for about a year now, i get the basics :whistling: i just assume everyone one knows what real failure is before i realise most people dont know what an actual working set is most the time...


Yeah mate, just clarifying what I was originally saying :thumbup1:


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## sciatic (May 24, 2014)

I try to follow Dorians approach as much as humanly possible. When I have no spotter, especially on the free weights I have to back off :crying: Ever since I approached this kind of training I've gone on the up and up and never experienced progress like it and I'm 48yrs old.

You have to be smart and be in tune with your body. There's nothing wrong with taking extra rest days off to help recovery. It's easy for the inexperienced to confuse legit tiredness for laziness. Once you get acclimatised to balls to wall, then you'll know the difference for sure.

Dorian all the way for me. Just make sure to throw in an extra rest day here and there.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

sciatic said:


> Once you get acclimatised to balls to wall, then you'll know the difference for sure.


Yup. I still do 6-8 weeks of a different style of training from time to time, just to keep things interesting. For example, doing GVT at the moment, and because of the increased volume I have to knock the intensity on the head a bit, it can be quite hard pacing yourself and putting the weight down when you know you've got a couple of reps still left in the tank. Whereas I suppose to a lot of people, putting the weight down as soon as the reps start to get a bit grindy IS failure haha.


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## biggestdog2007 (Apr 7, 2010)

I think any routine based on hard work and progression works.

HIT has those principals and so should be effective.

Personally i like the idea of HIT on the big compounds but on isolations i do 3 sets to failure with the final set beyond failure.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

Absolutely I have mostly followed blood and guts but with a few added high rep sets for good measure. I'm now doing more volume just to see what it's like. Previous to this month I would be in.and.out of the gym in 30 minutes or less just 3x per week and gained 50lb in less than a.year doing that.


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## sciatic (May 24, 2014)

IGotTekkers said:


> Absolutely I have mostly followed blood and guts but with a few added high rep sets for good measure. I'm now doing more volume just to see what it's like. Previous to this month I would be in.and.out of the gym in 30 minutes or less just 3x per week and gained 50lb in less than a.year doing that.


Is that Fifty F*ucking Pounds as in 50lbs!?...I'd stick to that routine Tekkers. Wish I could gain 50lbs in 5yrs lol. So we're talking lots of belly fat?


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

sciatic said:


> Is that Fifty F*ucking Pounds as in 50lbs!?...I'd stick to that routine Tekkers. Wish I could gain 50lbs in 5yrs lol. So we're talking lots of belly fat?


Lol no mate % only went up a little bit. Iv gained a few since then however haha. I ate a lot of food though mate


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Absolutely I have mostly followed blood and guts but with a few added high rep sets for good measure. I'm now doing more volume just to see what it's like. Previous to this month I would be in.and.out of the gym in 30 minutes or less just 3x per week and gained 50lb in less than a.year doing that.


I think I've watched a couple of your Youtube vids today....sure it's you lol.


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> I think I've watched a couple of your Youtube vids today....sure it's you lol.


Lol. Those old things.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Lol. Those old things.


Lol loved the DBol didn't you?


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

FelonE said:


> Lol loved the DBol didn't you?


Sure do, it's better when mixed with androl though


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

IGotTekkers said:


> Sure do, it's better when mixed with androl though


Lol


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## Kristina (Apr 12, 2014)

> Your last rep should look like this:


Wow.

That was sexual. :lol:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Kristina said:


> Wow.
> 
> That was sexual. :lol:


I want some of that pre-workout that Leroy (the training partner) is on, bloke is off his face :lol:


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