# Rectus Considers Tren



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Good afternoon Gentlemen.

*The Basics:*

I want to cut, Tren looks beneficial.

*
**Questions:*


Would you recommend Tren for a cut?

How much would you advise a first time user of Tren to inject (ml/mg)?

What is the favourable ester?

What should I have in place to handle potential side effects?


*Advanced information:*


My second injectable cycle is due in January and it will be* Testosterone Enanthate* @ 500mg P/W for 12 weeks.

I want to progress my natural keto cut to a more advanced enhanced cut.

My body fat is high at 21% and I want to get down to at least 10%.

I like to keep cycles as simple as possible.

Minimal injections.

I like cattle.


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## CunningStunt (Dec 21, 2010)

All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".

If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.

You should know what to have for possible side effects. You should know what ester is more liked if that person prefers fewer in injections. This is all basic information a simple google search would provide you weeks and weeks worth of information for you to read.

EDIT: Am I stupid or did I just post in a troll thread?


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## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

i would run something like

Test E at 600mg for 12-20 weeks

last 4-6 weeks run something like one rip 1ml e3d. if you wanna cut add eca or clen/t3. sort your diet out and you could lose 10%bf in that time i think


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## lucs (Apr 8, 2011)

CunningStunt said:


> All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".
> 
> If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.
> 
> ...


not a troll mate


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## Ninja_smurf (Jun 4, 2012)

CunningStunt said:


> All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".
> 
> If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.
> 
> ...


He's not trolling. he's just asking opinions on a first tren cycle mate, thats what the board is for, getting info.

Also, nothing lazy about using tren, same could be said for all steroids whether it be a cut or bulk?

Really dont get why you would feel the need to post this tbh


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

CunningStunt said:


> All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".
> 
> If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.
> 
> ...


Kind of the truth. At 20% it should be easy to get down to 14% or so, its when you hit the 12% mark you might want to be adding Tren getting to 8% or so. Just thinking about it, you must be doing something wrong to be at a high BF %. Athought I don't think 20% is actually overweight, only in this game it is.


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## NorthernSoul (Nov 7, 2011)

Ninja_smurf said:


> He's not trolling. he's just asking opinions on a first tren cycle mate, thats what the board is for, getting info.
> 
> Also, nothing lazy about using tren, same could be said for all steroids whether it be a cut or bulk?
> 
> Really dont get why you would feel the need to post this tbh


No, its pure reliance on the members of UKM. This is why we deter people from asking these question because you could get some idiot saying "Try 700mg of tren e u shud be good with that pal" etc..But c'mon, really...look at the questions he asked, What should he take for potential side effects? I mean I don't know all the science behind it but I'm well aware it increases progrestrone and for that reason I know what meds to take and how much test to take to keep estrogen at bay. It's only for his own good and independence.


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## ItsaSecret (May 28, 2012)

75 acetate every other day will see u right lol

i used 1ml one rip e/oday for 13 weeks, got some pretty mongy gains


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

rectus said:


> Good afternoon Gentlemen.
> 
> *The Basics:*
> 
> ...


Personally i think tren is wasted on a cut

For a first time use i think 100mg eod is a good starting point of tren ace.


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## Marshan (Aug 27, 2010)

Ya? Jeez, I found tren brilliant to cut...ace or enanthate...prefer enanthate tho, as it just comes on that bit steadier.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Personally I think 350mg pw is too high a dose to be starting tren if you've never ran it before. 250mg is a good starting point.

Even on 250mg pw I had insomnia, insanely greasy face and extremely short fuse. Strength went up every single workout and all i could think about was training and shagging, I mean literally that's all i though about all day at work :/


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## tcastle (May 26, 2011)

I agree on starting at 200 mg a week. I'm in my 5-6 cycle and I returned to low dose of tren (200 mg a week) and it is working just fine. I'm still having a little trouble sleeping, but once you dose the tren higher it all goes to ****.


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## SirStrokeUrEgo (Sep 27, 2012)

CunningStunt said:


> All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".
> 
> If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.
> 
> ...


And not a single word advice was given that day..

http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/E000theURG/Niketalk%20GIF/BlackManThongSlapped.gif


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

CunningStunt said:


> All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".
> 
> If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.
> 
> ...


I am lazy, that's why I train 6x a week and follow a keto diet to perfection...

What I have found in the past is that when you ask a question, you get a variety of responses which can help you make a decision by those more experienced than you - this is the benefit of starting a topic on a forum.

I'm have cut down my body fat and I continue to do so, nothing about my approach is lazy, it's just an acceleration of what I'm already doing. Seeing as you're posting in the steroid section of the forum I imagine you use AAS, yet you think you have the right to judge me? Get off your high horse.

I'm not really 'overweight', I'm "skinny fat" which is most likely due to hormonal imbalances through my teenage years.

I spend a lot of my time researching and have never done a cycle without reading until I know exactly what I am putting into my body.

I shouldn't have responded to your post but hopefully my response will teach you how to respond in the future. Time waster.



Sambuca said:


> i would run something like
> 
> Test E at 600mg for 12-20 weeks
> 
> last 4-6 weeks run something like one rip 1ml e3d. if you wanna cut add eca or clen/t3. sort your diet out and you could lose 10%bf in that time i think


20 weeks is a bit long for me, I get bored of pinning at 12 weeks so that works out just right. I have read in the past that blends like OneRip aren't really worth it because you don't get enough of each type of steroid, but I am open to the idea if you could flesh out your thinking.

I'm doing an ECA stack now, and I've just started adding in T3 @ 25mcg, not touching Clen though. My diet couldn't be improved, I am following Palumbo's Keto Diet


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Juic3Up said:


> No, its pure reliance on the members of UKM. This is why we deter people from asking these question because you could get some idiot saying "Try 700mg of tren e u shud be good with that pal" etc..But c'mon, really...look at the questions he asked, What should he take for potential side effects? I mean I don't know all the science behind it but I'm well aware it increases progrestrone and for that reason I know what meds to take and how much test to take to keep estrogen at bay. It's only for his own good and independence.


Well I'm not stupid enough to follow exactly what a member says without further reading. Threads can lead to great things, like myths being busted etc plus the science minded guys sometimes chime in and post studies and I do love a good study. Look, if you aren't going to provide me with anything positive then I don't want you to post in my thread. It's a complete waste of everybody's time, including your own.



mixerD1 said:


> Ya? Jeez, I found tren brilliant to cut...ace or enanthate...prefer enanthate tho, as it just comes on that bit steadier.


Yeah, I read Enanthate is a bit less harsh than acetate for some, but then if the sides are insane how long do you reckon it'd take to clear my system? Hence the benefits of using Ace. I did say I wanted to pin as little as possible but I am prepared to pin as often as required to achieve my goals.



anabolik said:


> Personally I think 350mg pw is too high a dose to be starting tren if you've never ran it before. 250mg is a good starting point.
> 
> Even on 250mg pw I had insomnia, insanely greasy face and extremely short fuse. Strength went up every single workout and all i could think about was training and shagging, I mean literally that's all i though about all day at work :/


I don't think I'll experience the libido aspect, I haven't with any Test based AAS (Enanthate, TBOL, 'Var). Ok, 250mg sounds good, the number I have seen repeatedly is 300mg but I am not much of a risk taker.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

It's funny how some people are quick to judge about meds when it comes to aiding in fat loss but we all use steroids to get bigger quicker!

It's the same old sh1t " you just need to diet" well yes of course you do but you just need to eat more to get bigger too!

Anyway! On topic, 200-300mg tren is a good starting point, always a good idea IMO to run the ace version first to test if/how you get on with sides, if you are ok then just switch to the enan ester


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> It's funny how some people are quick to judge about meds when it comes to aiding in fat loss but we all use steroids to get bigger quicker!
> 
> It's the same old sh1t " you just need to diet" well yes of course you do but you just need to eat more to get bigger too!
> 
> Anyway! On topic, 200-300mg tren is a good starting point, always a good idea IMO to run the ace version first to test if/how you get on with sides, if you are ok then just switch to the enan ester


An expensive way of doing it but it's something that did occur to me. Cheers.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

tcastle said:


> I agree on starting at 200 mg a week. I'm in my 5-6 cycle and I returned to low dose of tren (200 mg a week) and it is working just fine. I'm still having a little trouble sleeping, but once you dose the tren higher it all goes to ****.


200mg is the lowest dosing I've seen. Do people usually run Tren for the full cycle or treat it like a DBOL kickstart (first 4 weeks) or a Winny harden up (last 8 weeks).

Thank for the help so far guys, much appreciated. I always said I'd never run Tren because it seems a bit too mental but it does sound awesome and I want be even more awesome than I already am*










*if that's even possible


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## CunningStunt (Dec 21, 2010)

rectus said:


> I am lazy, that's why I train 6x a week and follow a keto diet to perfection...
> 
> What I have found in the past is that when you ask a question, you get a variety of responses which can help you make a decision by those more experienced than you - this is the benefit of starting a topic on a forum.
> 
> ...


Yes I am judging you, this is the internet. You come on here, asking for people's JUDGEMENT. If you're butthurt over a particular person's judgement, the internet isn't the palce for you.

And really, don't give me that bullshiit you follow a keto diet "to perfection". Okay Mr. 21% bodyfat.

You say you've done the research, then why ask simple, child-like questions? "What do I need to rid of side effects?"... Really?

Whatever you say man.

Like I said, a lot of people are just going to tell you to bang the tren in, because a lot of people use AAS as a crutch and not as an enhancement. Their diet is 50% and so is their training. You seem to be in the same boat.

But by all means, bang away.

EDIT: Thanks for the neg, truth must hurt. Sorry you didn't find all the Yes Men you wanted.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

@chilisi

Yeah, good point. I am already on 2000 cals, would be quite hard to go lower than that. I hate cardio, which is why I chose keto as I wanted to lose weight mainly through dieting (it's working) though I do cardio 2x a week in addition to my resistance training. I thought about adding in Test and then go to about 75mcg of T3 which is nice and simple but... Tren is very tempting, just to see what it can do. I've seen reputable members post how much their strength has gone up and it sounds like the stuff of fiction but apparently it's not. I don't get that much stronger on Test as a lot of people tend to do.

and in response to what you said earlier about A.I.

I used anastrozole at 0.5mg EOD on my Test E cycle but I read the word "caber" a lot when researching Tren. I'm in the middle of reading a Tren FAQ (though I'm not sure how reliable the information is) so I don't know everything YET.


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

tren: pick your own dosages using the suggestions as a guideline.

things to consider:

1. potential of coughing aka tren cough

2. alteration in taste perception.

3. massive sweating potential

4. acne.

5. people on tren comment on it's ability to almost complete ability to shut down cardio ability.

6. libido

7. strength

8. aggression

not everyone complains about every item on the list and even those that do complain , will argue with each other about how severe the issue was for them. not everyone gets acne to extent that they need lasers to treat the scarring- I am not fear mongering about mentioning the issues- however, it does exist for some people.

one guy was using excessive amounts of everything and got no sides. another guy used minimum tren but was at 1g test- massive amount of acne.

1. the cough is probably mediated by a histamine / prostraglandin type . completely unintentional and perhaps undesirable , this other system is being activated .

2. the taste has been dedscribed as "metallic", other people use other ways to describe it. but " it tastes like tin " is common.

then food items that are not 'salty" or "fishy " may take on that taste to you. but others won't taste the salt- so its' you who has changed. keep that in mind when or if this happens.

3. sweating- have to get on this. shower, bathe , wash, more often and better.

4. look for accutane immediately as the acne hits you fast and you may not be able to keep up on it.

you may need to shower twice per day minimum or even more often.

get a scrub brush for your back, inner traps.

from what I've seen and remember

low to low-moderate test ( 300-500 ) + low- moderate tren (100-250) = minimal potential for acne.

if you are close to 1gram and you add tren - you must be on top of the situation at all times to prevent acne.

<edited in: 500-600 test + 300-400 tren may be a happy compromise -good gains but trending towards a bit of pimples ) so if you go towards the mid range, keep track of the acne and keep your anger in check - edit >

if you see pimples on your shoulders, don't assume " this rash with go away ".

it's a simple little patch of small pimples one day then you miss one shower and suddenly it's all over your shoulder, upper back & down your arm.

5. it's cardio effect_ you will have to do something more to improve your cardio to prevent this or at least to stall it.

6. Libido: combined with test- you will get a hard on looking at the holes of the olympic plates.

7. strength- it's quite an increase so be forewarned as you will start using heavier weights, for which you may not be ready. realize this and make corrections. often called the Superman drug but can be it's own kryptonite if the person is not careful.

8. aggression: it does take a while to fully understand that your mind will react in a more negative manner that you would have otherwise. even completely laid back relaxed guys can become a bit unhinged. however, the saying is true " if you were an ashsloe before, you will be an even bigger ahslose when you are on tren."

it just makes a person a bit short tempered- although the cause and effect may sometimes be backwards.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

CunningStunt said:


> Yes I am judging you, this is the internet. You come on here, asking for people's JUDGEMENT. If you're butthurt over a particular person's judgement, the internet isn't the palce for you.
> 
> And really, don't give me that bullshiit you follow a keto diet "to perfection". Okay Mr. 21% bodyfat.
> 
> ...


I disagree with you, I think the Internet can be a wonderful place where we can all help each other to achieve great things. I'm not the problem here, it's you. You clearly have some personal issues you need to address and if you ever want to talk then I am here for you, but this is something you have to sit and think about by yourself at first. Good luck on your journey, it will be a tough road but I believe in you.

Oh and thanks for the support, real nice chap you are..


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## CunningStunt (Dec 21, 2010)

rectus said:


> I disagree with you, I think the Internet can be a wonderful place where we can all help each other to achieve great things. I'm not the problem here, it's you. You clearly have some personal issues you need to address and if you ever want to talk then I am here for you, but this is something you have to sit and think about by yourself at first. Good luck on your journey, it will be a tough road but I believe in you.
> 
> Oh and thanks for the support, real nice chap you are..


How passive aggressive of you. How old are you, 40 something? Grow up. Yeah I left a neg with the comment "cry somewhere else, fatass", I reciprocate.

Funny how you avoided all my points. I'll say it again: "keto diet down to perfection", okay Mr. 21% bodyfat.

Good luck on all your pi55 poor cycles of 2013 goals.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Rebel^Lion said:


> will you be injecting this sub q ?


Yes, how did you know? I forgot to mention it earlier but I do my Test subQ so I plan to do the same if I run Tren. I know @cas has done it that way but he switched back to intramuscular.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> @chilisi
> 
> Yeah, good point. I am already on 2000 cals, would be quite hard to go lower than that. I hate cardio, which is why I chose keto as I wanted to lose weight mainly through dieting (it's working) though I do cardio 2x a week in addition to my resistance training. I thought about adding in Test and then go to about 75mcg of T3 which is nice and simple but... Tren is very tempting, just to see what it can do. I've seen reputable members post how much their strength has gone up and it sounds like the stuff of fiction but apparently it's not. I don't get that much stronger on Test as a lot of people tend to do.
> 
> ...


When it comes to humans, 600mg/week test is proven to drop fat by 2kg in 20 weeks, on a 36cal/kg diet (1.2g protein).

I know you've read this study before but for the benefit of others:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long

Now when it comes to caber:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/171427-primobolan-lack-info-understanding-5.html

read post 69

also:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/182456-progesterone-prolactin-tren.html

post 8

As you mention you like cattle, and are considering tren, I would say run the 600mg/test and add 200-300mg/week tren (i would run both as enanthate esters).

As you're cutting, keep the anastrozole at 0.5mg/day.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

chilisi said:


> I doubt you will get all the benefits Tren can bring on so low calories. You will notice it of course, but in a lean bulk, it comes into its own. So waiting to use it for another cycle might be an idea.
> 
> You can cut without it. Adding it will help though
> 
> Keep researching and see what you think.


x2,

I don't care whether you're on tren, or methyl tren, on keto, you're just not that strong... but thats not the point of keto.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

CunningStunt said:


> How passive aggressive of you. How old are you, 40 something? Grow up. Yeah I left a neg with the comment "cry somewhere else, fatass", I reciprocate.
> 
> Funny how you avoided all my points. I'll say it again: "keto diet down to perfection", okay Mr. 21% bodyfat.
> 
> Good luck on all your pi55 poor cycles of 2013 goals.


I bet you're the kind of guy who laughs at obese people when you drive past them in your car. You do come across as an angry teenager if I'm honest, it's amusing as I imagine you sitting there with your hood up in the dark with the Twilight OST playing in the background, typing angrily on your keyboard. Your mother shouts "your dinner is ready son" and you reply in a pre-pubescent voice "I'LL BE DOWN DOWN IN A MINUTE MUM! GOD DAMN IT".

I didn't avoid your points, I just didn't reply to them because I've met many Internet users like yourself who won't back down, even in the face of blatant idiocy. I will address them now though:

You do realise dieting is progressive? You just don't start keto and become 10% body fat within a week? This is all basic stuff I assumed you'd understand, clearly not. But hey, I am not judging you for not knowing, all it means is that you need to go do some dieting research so you don't make the same mistake in the future. Hope that helps.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

chilisi said:


> Just to add, if you like to keep cycles simple, like you say. No need for Tren. Adjust cals, up the cardio and the test will hep you hold onto your muscle mass. 1 compound. Very simple.


This is why im now going to run high Test only blast next easier to manage sides with just test in the mix and Test is the best compound to use for anything really.


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## CunningStunt (Dec 21, 2010)

rectus said:


> I bet you're the kind of guy who laughs at obese people when you drive past them in your car. You do come across as an angry teenager if I'm honest, it's amusing as I imagine you sitting there with your hood up in the dark with the Twilight OST playing in the background, typing angrily on your keyboard. Your mother shouts "your dinner is ready son" and you reply in a pre-pubescent voice "I'LL BE DOWN DOWN IN A MINUTE MUM! GOD DAMN IT".
> 
> I didn't avoid your points, I just didn't reply to them because I've met many *Internet users like yourself who won't back down, even in the face of blatant idiocy*. I will address them now though:
> 
> You do realise dieting is progressive? You just don't start keto and become 10% body fat within a week? This is all basic stuff I assumed you'd understand, clearly not. But hey, I am not judging you for not knowing, all it means is that you need to go do some dieting research so you don't make the same mistake in the future. Hope that helps.


Well you're right about one thing, I am right in the face of blatant idiocy. If you want to continue this, PM me. This is embarrassing for both of us.


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## benki11 (Sep 17, 2010)

tren shot yours hpta so hard you mightn't ever recover !

Be careful


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

chilisi said:


> It the best, but some others are fun also.


MMMmmm true but after running whats worth running for a while now if come to the conclusion that Test makes me feel great and makes me gain best.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

dominimo said:


> tren: pick your own dosages using the suggestions as a guideline.
> 
> things to consider:
> 
> ...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

benki11 said:


> tren shot yours hpta so hard you mightn't ever recover !
> 
> Be careful


Is this true?!

EDIT: Scare mongerin' bastard!


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

this is more likely on test/dbol/mast than tren, for the reason I mention above..."

no, in this particular case, it was test tren. no dbol, no mast. but thanks for the heads up on that one. it wont' be for me but it's always good to know.

sexual drive increase: could have been psychological or whatever- the combination proved to be a never ending story of sexual conquests for the boys on it. it could be sort of like the experience with deca/test- the 'deca dick ' symptom is partly alleviated by the test so a guy can 'perform ' much longer , lasting much longer than before. their 'disinterest " in sex allowed them to keep at it and the test itself overcame whatever disinterest was created. the tren may have subtracted some interest created by the higher testosterone but the guys were still quite keen on the thing. and the result of this 'disinterest' gave them more lasting power and firing power.

the women didn't complain.

superman & kryptonite: it wasn't that the issue was damage to the person via tendon/s joint/s ligaments or what have you. as you get stronger, for some people, their goals change and they start training completely different than they intended. perhaps they get sloppy or perhaps they stop training in the way that better gave results so that they can capitalize on their new found strength. for some people , the muscles do appear to get stronger than their ability to recover. sometimes, a person's strength exceeds their ability to perform. see my scientific research article notation below for study details.

aggression: in my opinion, the combination of tren with test brought about an increase in anxiety and even paranoia in people so disposed. and even in people who weren't prone to jumping to quick hasty conclusions. for people who were on 600-1000 grams of test- this didn't seem to cause much of a problem. The addition of tren resulted in them turning into anxious sweaty reactive volcanoes. with a bit of paranoia thrown in there.

when on tren, some spoke negatively of their 'little voice " . it was all a bit of a lark but they didn't like this particular effect of tren as these symptoms disappeared when they came off. for this reason, many guys keep the length of a tren cycle short.

here is my scientific reference on that subject " http:// www. absolutely none. com ".


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> Is this true?!


how could this be true??

Have a read about the use of Test+progestogens (trenbolone is a progestogen) and their use in shutting you HPTA down for contraceptive reasons:

"...Male hormonal contraception is well tolerated, free of serious adverse side effects, and 95% effective in the prevention of pregnancy. *Importantly, male hormonal contraception is reversible,* with sperm counts usually *recovering within 4 months of the discontinuation of hormone treatment.*Because *exogenous testosterone administration alone does not completely suppress sperm production **in all men*, researchers have *combined testosterone with second agents, such as progestogens *or gonadotropin-releasing-hormone antagonists, to further suppress secretion of LH and FSH and improve suppression of spermatogenesis."

from: http://www.nature.com/nrendo/journal/v2/n1/full/ncpendmet0069.html

...


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

i like how ausbuilt marks your work in red pen


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Fatstuff said:


> i like how ausbuilt marks your work in red pen


 :smartass:


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

Im completely baffled that ausbuilt is not a MOD yet.


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

this is more likely on test/dbol/mast than tren, for the reason I mention above..."

in this particular case, it was test & tren. no dbol, no mast. but thanks for the heads up on that one. it wont' be for me but it's always good to know.

sexual drive increase:

could have been psychological or whatever- the combination proved to be a never ending story of sexual conquests for the boys on it. it could be sort of like the experience with deca/test- the 'deca dick ' symptom is partly alleviated by the test so a guy can 'perform ' much longer , lasting much longer than before. their 'disinterest " in sex allowed them to keep at it and the test itself overcame whatever disinterest was created. the tren may have subtracted some interest created by the higher testosterone but the guys were still quite keen on the thing. and the result of this 'disinterest' gave them more lasting power and firing power.

the women didn't complain.

superman & kryptonite:

it wasn't that the issue was damage to the person via tendon/s joint/s ligaments or what have you. as you get stronger, for some people, their goals change and they start training completely different than they intended. perhaps they get sloppy or perhaps they stop training in the way that better gave results so that they can capitalize on their new found strength. for some people , the muscles do appear to get stronger than their ability to recover. sometimes, a person's strength exceeds their ability to perform. see my scientific research article notation below for study details.

aggression:

in my opinion, the combination of tren with test brought about an increase in anxiety and even paranoia in people so disposed. and even in people who weren't prone to jumping to quick hasty conclusions. for people who were on 600-1000 mg of test- this didn't seem to cause much of a problem. The addition of tren resulted in them turning into anxious sweaty reactive volcanoes. with a bit of paranoia thrown in there.

when on tren, some spoke negatively of their 'little voice " . it was all a bit of a lark but they didn't like this particular effect of tren as these symptoms disappeared when they came off. for this reason, many guys keep the length of a tren cycle short.

here is my scientific reference on that subject " htte:// www. absolutely none. com ".

keep in mind that I never intend to start internet board fights . I don't get involved.

just passing along info based upon some experience and some research , knowing full well the limits of both sources and how some studies can be found to refute just about anything that someone else posts up as proof of their thoughts.

< i had 600-1000 GRAMs- edited it to mg. >


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

infernal0988 said:


> Im completely baffled that ausbuilt is not a MOD yet.


one MOD did propose me.... but I think I pi$$ed some other mods of back when i took this all to seriously and was a bit feisty! :2guns:

i've settled down now :surrender:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hey stop it, this thread is about me!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> one MOD did propose me.... but I think I pi$$ed some other mods of back when i took this all to seriously and was a bit feisty! :2guns:
> 
> i've settled down now :surrender:


Well they should reconsider it strongly as your actually one of the only members iknow, who base PED use, diet and training on such a well founded and evidential level.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> Hey stop it, this thread is about me!


yep, so like Nike says, "just do it!" :thumb:

just kidding. Actually I don't see much advantage to you using tren until your BF is around 12% The fat burning and hardening effects of strong androgens only become apparent as you get leaner... You're on keto, its not about high doses anyway. I would really just stick to 600mg/week test (don't know why you would do this sub-q; better release IM, as thats what it was designed for); if you feel like adding tren to this, go ahead at 200mg/300mg week, or run 600mg test first 12 weeks, then test/tren 50/50 for next 12 weeks..



infernal0988 said:


> Well they should reconsider it strongly as your actually one of the only members iknow, who base PED use, diet and training on such a well founded and evidential level.


LOL thanks mate. I have nerdy streak; that being said, gettin' big isn't rocket science.. to an extent, loads of gear, slin, food, training.... getting BIG & RIPPED... now thats much harder....


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## dominimo (Oct 26, 2012)

rectus:

are you considering adding DNP to your CKD as per the thread about adding dnp to a ckd diet?

if you run tren for a long period of time, keep track of WHEN the negatives begin to show up and keep on top of them.

as it is, you are taking / running

200 mg caffeine

25 mg ephedrine.

grape fruit extract

Test E

Tren E

and you weigh 76 kg.

maybe dnp

anything else?

do you have any bloodwork done before you started any of this? just wondering because it'd will be helpful later one while you do your pct. it would be nice if someone had it done, for some reason. to convince a doctor to have blood work done before you start. but no doc will do that.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dominimo said:


> rectus:
> 
> are you considering adding DNP to your CKD as per the thread about adding dnp to a ckd diet?
> 
> ...


You know way too much about me! ha thanks for the effort.

I don't bother with blood work or anything sensible like that. I just go by how I feel. I am thinking of this as an option:

DNP for 4 weeks (natural).

Tren 200mg/Test 250mg or 500mg? 12 weeks

Finish off with DNP.

Thoughts on that?


----------



## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

dominimo said:


> rectus:
> 
> are you considering adding DNP to your CKD as per the thread about adding dnp to a ckd diet?
> 
> ...


it IS a good idea to have blood tests as a baseline, then say every 6-8 weeks (that being said, I'm having mine done every 4 weeks). I do this privately, not on the NHS. Dr's wil be happy to draw blood and send away for whatever test you want privately.



rectus said:


> You know way too much about me! ha thanks for the effort.
> 
> I don't bother with blood work or anything sensible like that. I just go by how I feel. I am thinking of this as an option:
> 
> ...


feel is a pretty loose approach, but used by most! (doesn't make it right).

I just think keep it simple- the evidence is that for humans, 20 weeks- 30 weeks is commonly used for anabolics from a scientific/medical perspective, for the simple fact that the body doesnt change that fast..


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> feel is a pretty loose approach, but used by most! (doesn't make it right).
> 
> I just think keep it simple- the evidence is that for humans, 20 weeks- 30 weeks is commonly used for anabolics from a scientific/medical perspective, for the simple fact that the body doesnt change that fast..


Ok, so let's just say I came to see you in your office, we sat down, your blonde secretary asked if I would like a drink, I opt for a strong black coffee and we proceed.

"So Dr. Aus, I want to get my body fat down to a respectable level, but I want to keep things as simple and as safe as possible, what do you prescribe?"


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> Ok, so let's just say I came to see you in your office, we sat down, your blonde secretary asked if I would like a drink, I opt for a strong black coffee and we proceed.
> 
> "So Dr. Aus, I want to get my body fat down to a respectable level, but I want to keep things as simple and as safe as possible, what do you prescribe?"


well for a start, my secretary would not be blonde, she would be a brunette, and she would be Jewels Jade:

http://www.sexymusclegirls.com/fitness/two-jewels.html

OK. I will be repeating some links, because you may have seen them, but others may not have:

1. Run 600mg/test week, as its the ONLY scientifically proven dose of an AAS that dropped body fat, and increased lean body mass WITHOUT training (as it would be a variable)

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172.long

2. Run 200-250mg DNP EOD, t3 @ 50-100mcg daily, based on:

http://www.afboard.com/library/DNP%20+%20T3%20(United%20States%20Patent%204,673,691).pdf

Yes, he says 250/125mg alternating, but, most people stop the DNP because of diarrhoea after 4-6 weeks, and you can run it longer doing it EOD.

3. ECA 3x day on the DNP days; not so much for the fat burning increase, simply to combat DNP lethargy.

4. Keep following keto diet as advocated by Jumbo Palumbo (or Dan Duchaine).

The above is all predicated on being on Keto. If not Keto there would be a different approach (slightly), but what I've listed above is as simple as it gets, and would work very well, but I still think you would need 20 weeks (min) to get to single digits.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> well for a start, my secretary would not be blonde, she would be a brunette, and she would be Jewels Jade:
> 
> http://www.sexymusclegirls.com/fitness/two-jewels.html
> 
> ...


ah indeed, I am also a big fan of Jewels  

As I've mentioned in @Bull Terrier 's thread, I don't lose fat on Test and I took it up to 750mg, I got fatter.

DNP eod sounds better, wasn't sure about the half life.

ECA is fine, just takes me one week to get used to the anxiety.

Keto all the way.

No mention of Tren I notice. I'll assume you think it's better suited to a bulk then.

The time scale is fine, even though I want accelerated results I don't want them over night

"well thanks Dr. Aus, I will do some more reading and see if that's right for me. jewels, you're coming home with me"


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> ah indeed, I am also a big fan of Jewels
> 
> As I've mentioned in @Bull Terrier 's thread, I don't lose fat on Test and I took it up to 750mg, I got fatter.
> 
> ...


you only get fatter on test if you're on Nolva rather than an AI... its the oestrogen that retains fat... this is why previously (back in my day, before AIs where available) no one dieted on test.. however with a daily AI, test works very well.

I think tren is EXCELLENT for dieting- and if you're not shy, I would just add 200-300mg/week to the test (but keep the AI!!).

you can take Jewels home.. I've moved onto:

http://azianiiron.com/galleries/nikkijackson-nikkifhg_photo01-2-nikkijackson-975/?nats=MTAzNzAuMy4xMTQuMjM3LjAuNjAwNDc5MC4wLjAuMA

But as you can see, I have a thing for muscular brunettes :thumbup1:


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

I just have a thing brunettes muscles or no muscles can't be that fussy


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh better contribute, Rectus mate the one thing if I was you I'd stop doing ASAP is shooting sub Q, just seems completely counter productive to what your trying to achieve.


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## DutchTony (Sep 25, 2011)

anabolik said:


> Personally I think 350mg pw is too high a dose to be starting tren if you've never ran it before. 250mg is a good starting point.
> 
> Even on 250mg pw I had insomnia, insanely greasy face and extremely short fuse. *Strength went up every single workout and all i could think about was training and shagging, I mean literally that's all i though about all day at work* :/


Wow. I was considering tren for my next cycle and you have totally just sold it to me. Sounds amazing :thumb:


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## Vibora (Sep 30, 2007)

ausbuilt said:


> well for a start, my secretary would not be blonde, she would be a brunette, and she would be Jewels Jade:
> 
> http://www.sexymusclegirls.com/fitness/two-jewels.html


Not Safe for Work!!! haha

Saved for teh ol' **** bank though.

(I hope they don't monitor my internet use :mellow:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> Oh better contribute, Rectus mate the one thing if I was you I'd stop doing ASAP is shooting sub Q, just seems completely counter productive to what your trying to achieve.


I'm not sure why you think it's counter-productive, the end result is the same. Plus it's safer.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> you only get fatter on test if you're on Nolva rather than an AI... its the oestrogen that retains fat... this is why previously (back in my day, before AIs where available) no one dieted on test.. however with a daily AI, test works very well.
> 
> I think tren is EXCELLENT for dieting- and if you're not shy, I would just add 200-300mg/week to the test (but keep the AI!!).


I was running anastrozole at 0.5mg EOD


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

So this is what I've decided*

Week 1-4: DNP @ 250mg EOD (Gaspari Anavite for support)

Time off leading up to my AAS cycle

*I need help here with the fine details.* Remember that I am cutting -

Week 1-12: Test E (*250mg or 500mg?*)

Week *??* : Tren E (200mg)

Week 3-12: HCG - 2 x 500iu per week = 1000iu

Week 2-12: Anastrozole - 0.5mg ED

*subject to change


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Weeks 1-12 > 500mg test + 200mg tren, both same ester, jab 3 ml IM once weekly, rotate between glutes and quads :thumbup1:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Conscript said:


> Weeks 1-12 > 500mg test + 200mg tren, both same ester, jab 3 ml IM once weekly, rotate between glutes and quads :thumbup1:


Cheers. Any particular reason you think the 500mg of Test is a better option? I understand there is a synergy between Test and Tren so is that the reason? Am I right in saying that those who blast and cruise, during the cruise they inject 250mg Test? You can see a cut as a cruise can't you? I'm not trying to gain muscle here, just hold muscle.

I can't do glutes, I got cheeks like J-Lo and my arms are not long enough.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

More test is more gains, look if this is your first cycle your body will recomp to the macros you feed it, you'll still see an increase in muscle, not as much as a bulk as dieting affects many factors, training intensity, cardio etc. Just make sure you get plenty of protein, low/mod carbs, good EFA's, the extra energy your body requires to make muscle will come from your fat stores, then once you get lean, concentrate on bulking, for lean gains!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Conscript said:


> More test is more gains, look if this is your first cycle your body will recomp to the macros you feed it, you'll still see an increase in muscle, not as much as a bulk as dieting affects many factors, training intensity, cardio etc. Just make sure you get plenty of protein, low/mod carbs, good EFA's, the extra energy your body requires to make muscle will come from your fat stores, then once you get lean, concentrate on bulking, for lean gains!


This will be my 2nd injectable cycle. I didn't recomp on the first one, quite the opposite - Rick Waller made a comeback tour. I am doing keto and I am getting stronger on some exercises and at the very least I am maintaining my muscle. Bulking is a loooooooong way off.


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## Conscript (Sep 5, 2010)

Fvck the tren off then and just do the test and sh1t loads of cardio (2 hours daily) plus a 3 or 4 day split, depends what routine you do.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Conscript said:


> Fvck the tren off then and just do the test and sh1t loads of cardio (2 hours daily) plus a 3 or 4 day split, depends what routine you do.


No chance! I do Jim Wendlers 5/3/1 + 2x cardio which has me in the gym 6x a week, I think that's enough  I am losing body fat by creating a deficit through dieting.


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## oldskoolcool (Oct 4, 2009)

I would leave the tren for a while mate, up the test to 750mg and add 200-400mg masteron.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

oldskoolcool said:


> I would leave the tren for a while mate, up the test to 750mg and add 200-400mg masteron.


I upped the Test to 750mg about half way through my last cycle. Why Masteron over Tren?


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## oldskoolcool (Oct 4, 2009)

Because it will help keep down bloat and water it also keeps you a bit harder in both ways lol i like to run it along side test for these reasons.


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

oldskoolcool said:


> I would leave the tren for a while mate, up the test to 750mg and add 200-400mg masteron.


Don't listen to this.

There's no point adding masteron especially if your bf is already high. It's a hardener so if you have a bit of fat on you you won't really notice the difference.

Keep the tren and maybe add a smidge of masteron for libido if you need it but with all that test alongside the tren you should be a raging perv monster anyway mg:


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

rectus said:


> I'm not sure why you think it's counter-productive, the end result is the same. Plus it's safer.


Because your shooting what's designed for itra muscle injection, Sub Q no matter how you dress it up it's not the same.

Why not do it as intended and get the full benifits, how safe it is is entirely down to the user!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ha thanks, I'm already a "raging perv monster" without the gear so I fear for the locals when I am on.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> Because your shooting what's designed for itra muscle injection, Sub Q no matter how you dress it up it's not the same.
> 
> Why not do it as intended and get the full benifits, how safe it is is entirely down to the user!


Could you tell me why it's not the same? Everything that I have read (including that Canadian study) backs up the fact that the end result is the same. Safety is not entirely down to the user: I have only used pharma gear in the past but if I start to include Tren then I will have to go UGL as there is no pharma Tren that I am aware of, so if that's contaminated then that's where an abscess can occur. If it's a subcutaneous abscess, it's easier to remove.


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## zak007 (Nov 12, 2011)

CunningStunt said:


> All this information you could've found with a simple search. You just sound lazy. This is perpetuated by the fact you want to use tren to cut from 21% to "at least 10%".
> 
> If I was you, I'd cut down to a lower bodyfat first before jumping on tren. Using tren to cut at 21% just seems lazy in my eyes, though I'm sure there'll be some who disgaree and say "Fcuk it!". Thing is you're overweight, so you're not using tren to enhance anything, you're using it as a crutch. I hate the mantra but it definitely applies to you; sort your training and diet out first. Then when you feel you are ready for tren, do a bit of your own research.
> 
> ...


made you green again :thumb:


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## Ragingagain (Sep 4, 2010)

i was in same position as you, some people overhype tren dose and sides, i had no sides at 4-500mg around 600mg i had shrtness of breath. do it if i was u unreal shyt


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

rectus said:


> So this is what I've decided*
> 
> Week 1-4: DNP @ 250mg EOD (Gaspari Anavite for support)
> 
> ...


This looks fine, apart from a few things, either dose of test will do

Run adex from start, why you planning to run from week 2? It takes a week to reach peak levels anyway mate

Hcg I'd just do in one shot

I'd also run 250mg DNP ED, not EOD, you've made the choice to use it, may aswell do it properly!

If you decide to run 500mg test you can also run the tren until you stop the test as its less than half the amount it will clear quicker than the test


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

This has been a great thread with some very good information in it


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> I was running anastrozole at 0.5mg EOD


as i said, if you where running an AI DAILY you would've been fine. Look at it this way, up to 60% of the test can convert to oestrogen... adipose tissue (fat) is major aromatase activity site.. so basically the more fat you hold, the more aromatase you have, and the more test you convert to oestrogen. Sure taking tren would negate this; but only if you would take tren only, and no test- which when you shut down, will leave you with no erection; but burning fat nicely (this may not be a problem if you have no regular **** buddy).

Basically, whatever test level you run, until you're at about 12% run 1mg anastrozole daily...



Conscript said:


> Fvck the tren off then and just do the test and sh1t loads of cardio (2 hours daily) plus a 3 or 4 day split, depends what routine you do.


pretty good approach in terms of daily cardio; 20-30min HIIT 6xweek is a MUST, regardless of your weight training. When dieting I usually do my cardio post workout, before bed to go to bed depleted. If you cant manage that, then just do 20min at the end of your weight session if you're already in the gym 6days week.

at your BF, no 2x week cardio is a joke, regardless of keto & dnp



rectus said:


> No chance! I do Jim Wendlers 5/3/1 + 2x cardio which has me in the gym 6x a week, I think that's enough  I am losing body fat by creating a deficit through dieting.


I think keto is one of the easiest diet to overconsume cals on.... a few to many nuts does the trick...

anyhow, deficit through dieting.. ok... but remember, unless your on 50mcg+ t3, the combination of low carbs, plus low cals reduces leption, and T3 levels, and you fat loss will stall.

I still feel you're looking for "tren magic" when really you just need to up the cardio.... and take 600mg of test.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Like a Boss said:


> i was in same position as you, some people overhype tren dose and sides, i had no sides at 4-500mg around 600mg i had shrtness of breath. do it if i was u unreal shyt


to be fair its individual. I'm running tren at 800mg/week (with 1g test) and 5000mcg methyl tren on my 4 workout days, and it doesn't affect my cardio at all, and i'm no more a cvnt than usual :whistling:



Hotdog147 said:


> This looks fine, apart from a few things, either dose of test will do
> 
> Run adex from start, why you planning to run from week 2? It takes a week to reach peak levels anyway mate
> 
> ...


x2

but bear in mind that the most modern human case study (1987 I think that patent application was?) ran 250/125 alternating days for a reason.. reduced the sides so it could be run longer.... if you do it EOD you can simply run it for months rather than weeks.

@MXD had a good protcol from memory running DNP only 3 days/week in a row... had some advantages too. With DNP the results come better with longer on, rather than more in shorter time.. its one of the FEW products where more is NOT better... LOL


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

ausbuilt said:


> to be fair its individual. I'm running tren at 800mg/week (with 1g test) and 5000mcg methyl tren on my 4 workout days, and it doesn't affect my cardio at all, and i'm no more a cvnt than usual :whistling:
> 
> x2
> 
> ...


I agree, more is not better with DNP, I see people on here doing 1-2 weeks on 2-3 caps ED and I just think its totally the wrong way to go about it, I mean how much fat can you realistically expect to lose in such a short time frame!!

I've said this before, it's good but it's not the miracle pill it's portrayed to be!

In the OP's case, as he's only wanting to run for 4 weeks, I think 1 cap daily would be better as long as he doesn't suffer too bad with sides

I'm yet to complete a 4 week cycle myself! Lol.....always give up after a couple as I just can't bear the sweating!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Hotdog147 said:


> I agree, more is not better with DNP, I see people on here doing 1-2 weeks on 2-3 caps ED and I just think its totally the wrong way to go about it, I mean how much fat can you realistically expect to lose in such a short time frame!!
> 
> I've said this before, it's good but it's not the miracle pill it's portrayed to be!
> 
> ...


by week 4, on one cap day, its not the sweating, its my GI tract/ass that can't take DNP....


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## geeby112 (Mar 15, 2008)

Have read a few posts and see some disagreements.

I can see what cunningstunt is trying to say but came across maybe blunt.

Thing is gaining weight is generally easier as it doesn't neccasserily involve low carb/fat diets or cardio ( main two things we struggle and fail on)

You mention you hate cardio as an example, I'm sorry but you have to do more than twice a week. Add in two more days at least, combined with your keto diet with an eca you should be fine.

Don't see tren as a miracle fatloss drug

I went from skinny to skinny with a belly and hips and kept thinking nah I don't need cardio as I'm not actually fat :/ I was so wrong! We all should do more cardio even if it's for cardiovascular.

My first tren dose I used was tren e at 300mg with test 600, only did this after going from 16%bf to 12%bf naturally.  I was doing cardio 5 x a week pre breakfast and lost alot of fat with alittle muscle loss ( was going to happen). I jumped on that cycle a few months later STILL 5 x cardio with a high protein low carb medium fats and leveled at 14.5stone 10%bf.

Good luck with what ever you decide and remember we are all here still learning.


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

Rectus.........6pages ?

just smash the trenbolone in you lad!


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

geeby112 said:


> Have read a few posts and see some disagreements.
> 
> I can see what cunningstunt is trying to say but came across maybe blunt.
> 
> ...


good post. Look if you diet without AAS you lose loads of muscle; with a little AAS, some muslce, and with loads of AAS, no muscle and may even gain...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> This looks fine, apart from a few things, either dose of test will do
> 
> Run adex from start, why you planning to run from week 2? It takes a week to reach peak levels anyway mate
> 
> ...


I think 250mg Test E would be best.

@hackskii told me to run the anastrozole a week after my first injection.

The DNP I am trying to get my hands on is that "Chinese sh!t" and it's dosed at 150mg so I think taking every day would be best.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> as i said, if you where running an AI DAILY you would've been fine. Look at it this way, up to 60% of the test can convert to oestrogen... adipose tissue (fat) is major aromatase activity site.. so basically the more fat you hold, the more aromatase you have, and the more test you convert to oestrogen. Sure taking tren would negate this; but only if you would take tren only, and no test- which when you shut down, will leave you with no erection; but burning fat nicely (this may not be a problem if you have no regular **** buddy).
> 
> Basically, whatever test level you run, until you're at about 12% run 1mg anastrozole daily...
> 
> ...


Ok, your A.I point is understood, I will take more anastrozole. Just wish it wasn't so expensive. I don't mind paying good money for man hormones, it's just harder to part with cash for girls drugs.

Yeah I've read about the innocent looking nut, the bastards! I do love nuts.

I've been taking 25mcg T3 for a week now, I'll take it up to 50mcg when I start DNP (ugh I never thought I'd type those words).

I am after a bit of magic, I guess I'll see how the Tren goes, it could be the best thing I've ever done...or not.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> but bear in mind that the most modern human case study (1987 I think that patent application was?) ran 250/125 alternating days for a reason.. reduced the sides so it could be run longer.... if you do it EOD you can simply run it for months rather than weeks.


Does the fact that my DNP are dosed at 150mg change this protocol?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> yes, in that case it would be 2caps EOD, OR you're pretty close to the 250/125 used in the case studies, so could just go 300/150.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

geeby112 said:


> Have read a few posts and see some disagreements.
> 
> Thing is gaining weight is generally easier as it doesn't neccasserily involve low carb/fat diets or cardio ( main two things we struggle and fail on)
> 
> ...


There is one way to naturally lose weight: creating a calorific deficit - this can be done in two ways: decreasing calories or increasing cardio (or a combination of the two if you so wish). I have chosen the first option because I find cardio boring and unrewarding, yet I do it twice a week (1x spin 1x LISS) and I try to keep my resistance training at a higher intensity than I was previously doing when bulking (less rest between sets).

If you want to increase your cardiovascular fitness but don't enjoy slogging away on the treadmill you can just do ONE HIIT session a week, this has been proven to make a difference. Of course that's a minimum.

I'm not that guy who sits on his 4rse all day, eating junk, and then looks for a miracle pill to get him on the front cover of Men's Health (like a lot of DNP users I'm sure) - I train hard and I eat well. I made the sacrifices I needed to get a better body like quitting beer (11 weeks and counting), monitoring my diet, training optimally and consistently in the gym and the never ending quest to gain knowledge so I can take myself to a higher level of brilliance as each year passes.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

rectus said:


> Could you tell me why it's not the same? Everything that I have read (including that Canadian study) backs up the fact that the end result is the same. Safety is not entirely down to the user: I have only used pharma gear in the past but if I start to include Tren then I will have to go UGL as there is no pharma Tren that I am aware of, so if that's contaminated then that's where an abscess can occur. If it's a subcutaneous abscess, it's easier to remove.


Try it and see for yourself you won't go back to sub q shots, years ago back in my early twenties I tried sub q na it's not the same, I don't have this stuff or that study to show because sometimes they just don't hold much water.

It's designed to be injected into a muscle so just get on with it and inject a muscle IMO, given ur bf% I'd be even more inclined to go IM.

At the end of the day mate do what you want, it's only meant as constructive critisim from which I believe you'd see genuine benifits.

By safer I meant that 99% of issues are caused by the user.


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Pain2Gain said:


> Try it and see for yourself you won't go back to sub q shots, years ago back in my early twenties I tried sub q na it's not the same, I don't have this stuff or that study to show because sometimes they just don't hold much water.
> 
> It's designed to be injected into a muscle so just get on with it and inject a muscle IMO, given ur bf% I'd be even more inclined to go IM.
> 
> ...


the problem with sub-q is that circulation in the fat is at a far different rate to the muscle; now a water based shot sub-q is absorbed reasonable quickly; however, an IM oil based shot is designed to dissipate slowly from a deep IM site, with high blood flow....

sub-q is the worst approach with oil based test. If you want to do this, then 100mg sub-q, daily of water based test (with no ester) such as BSI labs,

However, even then you're giving up localised growth by not doing IM with 'slin pin..


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> the problem with sub-q is that circulation in the fat is at a far different rate to the muscle; now a water based shot sub-q is absorbed reasonable quickly; however, an IM oil based shot is designed to dissipate slowly from a deep IM site, with high blood flow....
> 
> sub-q is the worst approach with oil based test. If you want to do this, then 100mg sub-q, daily of water based test (with no ester) such as BSI labs,
> 
> However, even then you're giving up localised growth by not doing IM with 'slin pin..


Sure it's slower but only by a matter of hours, so it's irrelevant. Wow, didn't even know water based Test existed.

Hmmm localised growth, is this proven? I've only read anecdotal stuff on forums so I wasn't sure if it made a difference.

subQ is so easy and painless that I reckon I could get away with calling myself a natty because I don't even notice it. The benefits for me are the smaller pin, you won't hit a nerve or hit a blood vessel, little bit of PIP, subQ abscess as opposed to Intramuscular abscess. Nobody has shown me that Intramuscular has greater benefits as of yet so I really don't see the need to change - but hey, I am always open minded as I am still a n00b in comparison to you guys who've been running mad stacks for years on end.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

The fact you can't even notice it should tell u everything! I'd love to expand but just got to work will drop in later


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

How much oil are you pinning in total? You can't be doing it all in one site sub-q surely?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> How much oil are you pinning in total? You can't be doing it all in one site sub-q surely?


I was pinning 3ml a week (750mg): 1ml Monday - 2ml Thursday. I only pin 1ml max per site (highest I've seen anyone go), so Thursday would be split into 2 separate site injections.

I don't know the mg per ml of Tren E so I can't work out how much in total I will be pinning in my future cycle, but I will be running Med-Tech Solutions Tren E and Geofman's Test E at 250mg P/W for 16 weeks (decided to increase it by a month as recommended).


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Craig660 said:


> This has been a great thread with some very good information in it


Yeah, I'm so glad I started this thread, learning lots and getting a variety of opinions which is what a community like this is all about. I went from wanting to do a Tren cycle to doing a DNP cycle followed by a Tren cycle... what happened?! I'm worried if this thread continues I'll be on a Test/Tren/Mast/Deca/DBOL/DNP/T3 for 52 weeks...

What are your thoughts on *Letrozole *and how often do you take it? It's harsh I know, but is once a week a good amount or will that still kill oestrogen (we want a bit)? I am hearing that a lot of people are getting gyno even when using anastrozole recently. Now I don't know if this is because they are using UGL/fakes or pharma anastrozole. I think I am correct in saying that Tamoxifen is an old med and has no place during a cycle.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

rectus said:


> I was pinning 3ml a week (750mg): 1ml Monday - 2ml Thursday. I only pin 1ml max per site (highest I've seen anyone go), so Thursday would be split into 2 separate site injections.
> 
> I don't know the mg per ml of Tren E so I can't work out how much in total I will be pinning in my future cycle, but I will be running Med-Tech Solutions Tren E and Geofman's Test E at 250mg P/W for 16 weeks (decided to increase it by a month as recommended).


750mg a wk and you don't notice it to the put u could consider yourself natty!

There's so much wrong with that I don't know where to begin, IMO you should SERIOUSLY consider doing it IM as it completely obvious it's all going to waste using your current method.

The benifits you give mate are neglagible if ur not getting anything from it, you got nothing to woory about shooting IM anyway


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Pain2Gain said:


> 750mg a wk and you don't notice it to the put u could consider yourself natty!
> 
> There's so much wrong with that I don't know where to begin, IMO you should SERIOUSLY consider doing it IM as it completely obvious it's all going to waste using your current method.
> 
> The benifits you give mate are neglagible if ur not getting anything from it, you got nothing to woory about shooting IM anyway


haha I was joking! I respect your opinion as I've seen some good posts by you in the past but you haven't provided me with any compelling evidence to switch over to intramusclar injections. I'm not "wasting" anything, it still gets into my bloodstream the same way as the intramuscular route, the only difference is there is a few hours lag - this doesn't matter because you don't get acute effects from Test E. Shooting IM means I have less sites to inject, I really do not know how people do glutes, it's so awkward. I like pinning my quads, but if you go IM there is only limited space to pin because of the large nerve and artery travelling through the thigh. I can pin my belly subQ too, or wherever I like! I may even pin my big toe, just to show off.


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## Pain2Gain (Feb 28, 2012)

I know I hate glutes too, I just use quads mainly And delts occasionally. Never hit a nerve vein or artery yet so it can't be that risky


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> What are your thoughts on *Letrozole *and how often do you take it? It's harsh I know, but is once a week a good amount or will that still kill oestrogen (we want a bit)? I am hearing that a lot of people are getting gyno even when using anastrozole recently. Now I don't know if this is because they are using UGL/fakes or pharma anastrozole. I think I am correct in saying that Tamoxifen is an old med and has no place during a cycle.


two things:

1. People get gyno on arimidex becuase they take 0.5mg EOD or E3D etc. It has a half life of 41 hours, and is designed to be taken daily. Test can convert at 60% to oestrogen, and people take 500mg of test, so roughly 4-5x natural weekly production/TRT dose, then take armidex at half a tab, and not daily then complain it doesn't work... ya think??? :death:

2. Letrozole is very stronge, BUT, once a week, won't stop any gyno. Why? because only an idiot would say take it once per week- look it has a half life of 48 hours. So for 2 days you're fine (prob even to much AI for most), next 2days your prob OK, next 3 days you're open to gyno....

half life people.... learn about.. and AIs tend to only reduce oestrogen 50% in men as compared to 70-85% in women..

Tamoxifen has a use- you may WANT high oestrogen, but no gyno (see my journal as to why); so I have switched for my current goals.

There is no such thing as a bad med- its a matter of choosing the right tool for the job. From a fat loss persepective, stick to an AI not tamox; if lean and bulking on tren, perhaps nolva/tamox is a better choice (i"m trying to find out!) Also tamox is dirt cheap, and is better at preventing gyno if taken daily than an AI taken every 2/3 days or once/week. To many use to low a dose of an AI (rather than 1 tab/day) becuase of the cost of the AI..

If money is tight, tamox taken daily will at least stop gyno, but for your level of body fat, you need an AI, or a switch to masteron.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ausbuilt said:


> two things:
> 
> 1. People get gyno on arimidex becuase they take 0.5mg EOD or E3D etc. It has a half life of 41 hours, and is designed to be taken daily. Test can convert at 60% to oestrogen, and people take 500mg of test, so roughly 4-5x natural weekly production/TRT dose, then take armidex at half a tab, and not daily then complain it doesn't work... ya think??? :death:
> 
> ...


Got it, so those complaining about getting gyno just aren't taking enough of a dose, and they may also be using a UGL's version as it's much cheaper and possibly under-dosed too.

I was reading a bit more on ThinkSteroids too and they also recommend anastrozole over Letrozole. I will definitely take my A.I. on a daily basis from now on but not the full dose, just 0.5mg and see how that goes. That's more than I was doing on 500mg Test E (0.5 EOD) and I will be running 250mg Test E this time round. Anastrozole it is.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

rectus said:


> Got it, so those complaining about getting gyno just aren't taking enough of a dose, and they may also be using a UGL's version as it's much cheaper and possibly under-dosed too.
> 
> I was reading a bit more on ThinkSteroids too and they also recommend anastrozole over Letrozole. I will definitely take my A.I. on a daily basis from now on but not the full dose, just 0.5mg and see how that goes. That's more than I was doing on 500mg Test E (0.5 EOD) and I will be running 250mg Test E this time round. Anastrozole it is.


So last cycle you used 500mg test and were fine on 0.5mg EOD of adex?

This time your taking half the amount of test but are going to take double the amount of adex?

Wheres the logic in that mate?

I suggest you stick to what worked before tbh


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> So last cycle you used 500mg test and were fine on 0.5mg EOD of adex?
> 
> This time your taking half the amount of test but are going to take double the amount of adex?
> 
> ...


Because of the addition of Tren and I bloated last time so this should help keep my bloat down hopefully.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

rectus said:


> Because of the addition of Tren and I bloated last time so this should help keep my bloat down hopefully.


I should add: I know Tren doesn't aromatise into oestrogen but I was reading a few posts on Testosterone Nation by Bill Roberts and his theory for those who developed gyno from Tren was that what they were using wasn't Tren, but in fact a blend or even something else entirely (not sure what would give the same results as Tren though). That and poor A.I. planning.

I kind of find the planning of a cycle fun  A guy I know just used to inject whatever his gym buddies told him to - never knowing what he was taking. Bit risky imo, but it seemed to work!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

What are peoples thoughts on this?



> Masteron may actually be very useful for combating estrogenic/progesteronic side effects yes, you read that right, if you *include Masteron in your cycle, you may not need other "ancillary" drugs like Arimidex *or Letrozole). Hence, much like Proviron, Masteron could be used as an anti-side-effect-drug (remember, most ancillary drugs we use to combat estrogenic sides, like nolvadex, letrozole, and arimidex were originally developed to combat breast cancer...and that's exactly what Masteron was developed and used for).


Source: http://www.steroid.com/Masteron.php


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Scratch that, this is what Bill Roberts says over at ThinkSteroids:



> Dromostanolone [Masteron] has some reputation for anti-estrogenic activity, but in actuality this *effect is fairly subtle*. If due to use of aromatizing steroids a steroid cycle would produce substantially excessive levels of estrogen, adding Masteron to the cycle will not fix that. Instead, an anti-aromatase such as letrozole or *anastrozole should be used.*


I am considering adding in Masteron... this is getting ridiculous now. Maybe I should leave it for a future cycle and just do Tren/Test this time round.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

rectus said:


> What are peoples thoughts on this?
> 
> Source: http://www.steroid.com/Masteron.php


Idk about that but for me masteron really helps me combat insomnia , cramps & spasms , and strong acide reflux when using Tren but i would never use mast as a AI ever.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Interesting...



> Another use of Masteron which has become more common lately is* combination with trenbolone*. including Masteron allows a lower trenbolone dosage while achieving very similar or equal physique benefit with less potential for trenbolone-specific side effects of night-sweats, increased tendency to aggression, and/or insomnia.


Source: http://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/masteron/


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

infernal0988 said:


> Idk about that but for me masteron really helps me combat insomnia , cramps & spasms , and strong acide reflux when using Tren but i would never use mast as a AI ever.


Well that seems to coincide with the quote I just posted by Bill Roberts.


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## Kamwe kuacha (Jun 19, 2011)

rectus said:


> Well that seems to coincide with the quote I just posted by Bill Roberts.


Lol! Then why ask for peoples opinion if you're just going the agree with the quote??


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ShaunH101 said:


> Lol! Then why ask for peoples opinion if you're just going the agree with the quote??


I said that Infernal's experiences with Masteron matched what was said by Bill Roberts, giving Bill's quote further validity. You probably didn't read the post before you commented, happens a lot on here.


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## Kamwe kuacha (Jun 19, 2011)

rectus said:


> I said that Infernal's experiences with Masteron matched what was said by Bill Roberts, giving Bill's quote further validity. You probably didn't read the post before you commented, happens a lot on here.


Well now I feel like a [email protected] 

Really sorry mate, I did just blast over it, and thought you said contradict!


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

rectus said:


> I said that Infernal's experiences with Masteron matched what was said by Bill Roberts, giving Bill's quote further validity. You probably didn't read the post before you commented, happens a lot on here.


Thats true but everyone is different so it might not be the case for you but only way to find out is to try


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

rectus said:


> Scratch that, this is what Bill Roberts says over at ThinkSteroids:
> 
> I am considering adding in Masteron... this is getting ridiculous now. Maybe I should leave it for a future cycle and just do Tren/Test this time round.


Why not just do a blend like ttm if your thinking of adding masteron?....

It would make sence IMO, I'm on a ttm blend now and loving it


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

haza said:


> Why not just do a blend like ttm if your thinking of adding masteron?....
> 
> It would make sence IMO, I'm on a ttm blend now and loving it


I already have my Test E so it would have to be a Tren E/Mast E Blend but I don't know if Med-Tech Solutions have that.


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

rectus said:


> I already have my Test E so it would have to be a Tren E/Mast E Blend but I don't know if Med-Tech Solutions have that.


Never seen med-tech do tren e mast e blend, but why not still get a ttm blend and keep the test e to add in?....

Dont no if your going to run the test higher than the tren?


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

fcuking hell mate just jab it lol


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

haza said:


> Never seen med-tech do tren e mast e blend, but why not still get a ttm blend and keep the test e to add in?....
> 
> Dont no if your going to run the test higher than the tren?


250mg Test E

200mg Tren E



crazypaver1 said:


> fcuking hell mate just jab it lol


During these 8 pages a lot of things have happened, many cycle adaptations have occurred. I'm pretty confident I'm going to use Tren, it's just if it's worth adding in anything else now. I'd prefer not to but the quotes I posted above sound like it would be foolish not to add it in.


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

rectus said:


> 250mg Test E
> 
> 200mg Tren E
> 
> During these 8 pages a lot of things have happened, many cycle adaptations have occurred. I'm pretty confident I'm going to use Tren, it's just if it's worth adding in anything else now. I'd prefer not to but the quotes I posted above sound like it would be foolish not to add it in.


right am coming to england and im going to stick it in you myself :cursing:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

What's the lowest dosage of Masteron I can take while still getting the benefits?

*In other news: *tonight I will be taking my first DHacks 250mg DNP pill. If you guys don't hear from me again I just wanted to say... we had some great times didn't we? Love is all.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> What's the lowest dosage of Masteron I can take while still getting the benefits?
> 
> *In other news: *tonight I will be taking my first DHacks 250mg DNP pill. If you guys don't hear from me again I just wanted to say... we had some great times didn't we? Love is all.


FFS mate - relax!! You're going to be fine! DNP is hardly Russian Roulette.


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

rectus said:


> What's the lowest dosage of Masteron I can take while still getting the benefits?
> 
> *In other news: *tonight I will be taking my first DHacks 250mg DNP pill. If you guys don't hear from me again I just wanted to say... we had some great times didn't we? Love is all.


What benefits are you wanting to get from Masteron mate?

Personally I see no need for it unless already low bf


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> What benefits are you wanting to get from Masteron mate?
> 
> Personally I see no need for it unless already low bf


You missed it on the previous page, from this post onwards: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/200547-rectus-considers-tren-8.html#post3635666


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## Hotdog147 (Oct 15, 2011)

rectus said:


> You missed it on the previous page, from this post onwards: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/200547-rectus-considers-tren-8.html#post3635666


Oh I see, TBH I wouldn't take any notice of what Bill Roberts says, it's well known he talks a lot of rubbish mate


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hotdog147 said:


> Oh I see, TBH I wouldn't take any notice of what Bill Roberts says, it's well known he talks a lot of rubbish mate


Really?! I was under the impression he was a guru. Cheers for the heads up. So who do we follow then? Just Lyle and Duchane?


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

rectus said:


> Really?! I was under the impression he was a guru. Cheers for the heads up. So who do we follow then? Just Lyle and Duchane?


Borresson, L.Rea myself


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

RowRow said:


> Borresson, L.Rea myself


Is there a place they write regularly? I know Lyle writes for Thinksteroids and his own site. Lyle comes across as a complete pr**k in his posts! He knows his stuff but I am unsure why he has to be a d!ck about it.


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm using Rohm ttm ATM and the hot flushes are terrible, if your going to start the tren and dnp, get ready to rumble


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

haza said:


> I'm using Rohm ttm ATM and the hot flushes are terrible, if your going to start the tren and dnp, get ready to rumble


ahaha that's not my plan. DNP pre-cycle until I get my body fat down to... hmmm I don't really know what's a realistic goal here. I'm 20.5% at the moment. Once that's determined and I reach that then I will stop the DNP (assuming I'm not dead ofc) and run my Tren/Test (possibly Mast) cycle.

How much are you using? That's 100mg/ml of each isn't it?


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

You got any pics up rectus, it sounds like I'm looking for similar goals to yourself and would like to compare if you do try tren...

Been tempted myself but would be my second cycle so I'm unsure due to the scaremongers....


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

rectus said:


> ahaha that's not my plan. DNP pre-cycle until I get my body fat down to... hmmm I don't really know what's a realistic goal here. I'm 20.5% at the moment. Once that's determined and I reach that then I will stop the DNP (assuming I'm not dead ofc) and run my Tren/Test (possibly Mast) cycle.
> 
> How much are you using? That's 100mg/ml of each isn't it?


Ahh right, using now to get ready for the tren, that sounds a good idea, tren mast is good at low bf....

I'm running 4ml ttm a week with 1ml pc test 400 on top of my trt, plus 5iu HGH, starting to feel awesome apart from the hot flushes, but it doesn't help with the opiates I'm using for back problem making the flushes unbearablemg: but strenghth has doubled and I'm cutting right up


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ben_Dover said:


> You got any pics up rectus, it sounds like I'm looking for similar goals to yourself and would like to compare if you do try tren...
> 
> Been tempted myself but would be my second cycle so I'm unsure due to the scaremongers....


No photos, they would turn you gay and the UK-M Females need love.

I'm doing Tren, I don't give a sh*t about consequences anymore *throws his Haribo on the floor* This will be my second cycle too (injectable) but I am going in with a low dose and planning it well so I should be ok I think.



haza said:


> Ahh right, using now to get ready for the tren, that sounds a good idea, tren mast is good at low bf....
> 
> I'm running 4ml ttm a week with 1ml pc test 400 on top of my trt, plus 5iu HGH, starting to feel awesome apart from the hot flushes, but it doesn't help with the opiates I'm using for back problem making the flushes unbearablemg: but strenghth has doubled and I'm cutting right up


Are you running an A.I. because I'm sure men aren't supposed to get "hot flushes"? I wish I could afford to run HGH, I've ran it before but only at 2iu.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

rectus said:


> No photos, they would turn you gay and the UK-M Females need love.
> 
> I'm doing Tren, I don't give a sh*t about consequences anymore *throws his Haribo on the floor* This will be my second cycle too (injectable) but I am going in with a low dose and planning it well so I should be ok I think.
> 
> Are you running an A.I. because I'm sure men aren't supposed to get "hot flushes"? I wish I could afford to run HGH, I've ran it before but only at 2iu.


I would only start a low dose, is like to try 200mg tren e pw as jabbing is a pain in the ass (excuse the pun) but then is worry if I got sides at that dose is have then for a couple weeks...

Anyhow, if this is your journal I'm sunbed, if its not please tag me when you start it...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ben_Dover said:


> Anyhow, if this is your journal I'm *sunbed*, if its not please tag me when you start it...


You crazy kids and your lingo. I might start up a journal, but it'll be a paid subscription to pay for my meds. Just Paypal me it mate, cheers.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

Bloody iPhone, guess it picks up on the amount of times I've had a sunbed...

Pay for a journal? Does that make me alpha?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ben_Dover said:


> Bloody iPhone, guess it picks up on the amount of times I've had a sunbed...
> 
> Pay for a journal? Does that make me alpha?


Look mate, you're either interested or you're not, don't waste my time, Paypal me the cash and I'll sign you up. Comes with webcam access and photo requests.


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## haza (Nov 19, 2010)

rectus said:


> No photos, they would turn you gay and the UK-M Females need love.
> 
> I'm doing Tren, I don't give a sh*t about consequences anymore *throws his Haribo on the floor* This will be my second cycle too (injectable) but I am going in with a low dose and planning it well so I should be ok I think.
> 
> ...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Revised plan:

Week 1-16 Test E 250mg

Week 1-14 Tren E 200mg

Week 1-16 Mast E 200mg

Week 1-16 Anastrozole 0.5 EOD

Week 3-16 HCG 1000iu

So I've added in Masteron Enanthate which will act as a mild A.I. which combined with the anastrozole should mean I can take it EOD rather than ED and keep my oestrogen levels in check. Thoughts?


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## Kamwe kuacha (Jun 19, 2011)

rectus said:


> Revised plan:
> 
> Week 1-16 Test E 250mg
> 
> ...


Why the doses so low?? :-/


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

ShaunH101 said:


> Why the doses so low?? :-/


I'm cutting. The low Test is for holding onto muscle, the low Tren is for less sides as it'll be my first use of the compound, and Masteron...I just guessed the dose. The Mast E is 200mg/ml so 1ml of each compound = 3ml p/w


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

rectus said:


> I'm cutting. The low Test is for holding onto muscle, the low Tren is for less sides as it'll be my first use of the compound, and Masteron...I just guessed the dose. The Mast E is 200mg/ml so 1ml of each compound = 3ml p/w


i truly believe, based on the weight of academic research, that less than 600mg/week of test as a base is wasted opportunity/results; the low dose of the rest on top is fine, but I would up the test.

you lose more muscle when dieting- its in fact more important when dieting to run AAS(or higher dose AAS) than when bulking (think about it, when bulking, if your dose is to low, you get a bit fat, but lose no muscle).


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Well I did my first Tren E jab today, was the most painful jab I've done. Not sure if it's the compound or the technique, I guess I'll find out next week when I jab again. Very excited! Did the Test E and Mast E on Monday. Splitting the jabs because I prefer to do my HCG 2x a week and I thought 4 injections in one sitting was a bit much.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

rectus said:


> Well I did my first Tren E jab today, was the most painful jab I've done. Not sure if it's the compound or the technique, I guess I'll find out next week when I jab again. Very excited! Did the Test E and Mast E on Monday. Splitting the jabs because I prefer to do my HCG 2x a week and I thought 4 injections in one sitting was a bit much.


only 2 injections mate? mix 1ml of the test/tren same syringe, and mast/hcg same syringe jobs a gudden


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> only 2 injections mate? mix 1ml of the test/tren same syringe, and mast/hcg same syringe jobs a gudden


I only inject 1ml per site (subQ). I've read on here that you should not mix a liquid based compound with a water one, though I know Mars mixes them. So, I'm looking at about 5-6 weeks before I see the effects of Tren? I'm guessing I'll know when it hits because I'll be imprisoned for the murder of my friends and family.


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

rectus said:


> Well I did my first Tren E jab today, was the most painful jab I've done. Not sure if it's the compound or the technique, I guess I'll find out next week when I jab again. Very excited! Did the Test E and Mast E on Monday. Splitting the jabs because I prefer to do my HCG 2x a week and I thought 4 injections in one sitting was a bit much.


If you like it then next time you can just buy a blend a tren>/test/mast blend


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

rectus said:


> I only inject 1ml per site (subQ). I've read on here that you should not mix a liquid based compound with a water one, though I know Mars mixes them. So, I'm looking at about 5-6 weeks before I see the effects of Tren? I'm guessing I'll know when it hits because I'll be imprisoned for the murder of my friends and family.


sorry mate, ddnt realise you were injecting sub-q very out of the norm but interesting, erm thats mainly with an oil based/water based steroid, cant see a problem with hcg buddy, your looking around 2-4 weeks to start feeling effects, and yes eating babys, punching women, all good signs


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## infernal0988 (Jun 16, 2011)

zack amin said:


> sorry mate, ddnt realise you were injecting sub-q very out of the norm but interesting, erm thats mainly with an oil based/water based steroid, cant see a problem with hcg buddy, your looking around 2-4 weeks to start feeling effects, and yes eating babys, punching women, all good signs


DONT FORGET RAPE , MURDER & PILLAGE...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> sorry mate, ddnt realise you were injecting sub-q very out of the norm but interesting, erm thats mainly with an oil based/water based steroid, cant see a problem with hcg buddy, your looking around 2-4 weeks to start feeling effects, and yes eating babys, punching women, all good signs


Yeah I do all my jabs subQ and get verbally abused on this board for it  Tbh, I don't mind doing HCG separately, I know the measurements on a 'slin pin so it doesn't take much thought and subQ jabs aren't really noticeable (apart from today, may have not let the alcohol dry fully though). 2-4 weeks? Well in my experience of other compounds it takes me much longer than most people, but then again I've never ran gear aimed at the cattle market.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

rectus said:


> Yeah I do all my jabs subQ and get verbally abused on this board for it  Tbh, I don't mind doing HCG separately, I know the measurements on a 'slin pin so it doesn't take much thought and subQ jabs aren't really noticeable (apart from today, may have not let the alcohol dry fully though). 2-4 weeks? Well in my experience of other compounds it takes me much longer than most people, but then again I've never ran gear aimed at the cattle market.


i know for the sake of hcg much easier to just pin it singally, interesting, how do you find injecting sub-q? yeh but tren is strong sh1t lol youll tend to hit insomnia and night sweats before anything


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> i know for the sake of hcg much easier to just pin it singally, interesting, how do you find injecting sub-q? yeh but tren is strong sh1t lol youll tend to hit insomnia and night sweats before anything


It's easy, I just use a 27g Grey pin, 2.5ml barrel and only do a maximum of 1ml per site. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as such because steroids are meant for intramuscular injections as stated on the box, plus most guys run much more than I do and 1ml per site would be a hassle so sticking with what works is probably for the best. Saying that though, I choose to jab subQ because it is proven to be as effective as IM, less site trauma leading to less scarring, don't feel a thing usually, you don't have to aspirate, you are unlikely to hit a nerve or large blood vessel, if you get an abscess it'll be closer to the surface so easier to remove and less tissue damage than if the abscess is formed at the muscle layer. There are more sites to pin. You still get PIP though, the site is sore when touched for about a week but that's not an issue for me.

Well I tend to sleep in 4 hr blocks anyway so hopefully that won't effect me, plus I look forward to night sweat because it's 'kin freezing at the moment! Taking Mast with Tren is supposed to counter some of Tren's side effects, but that will remain to be seen.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Week 3:* My nipples are starting to tingle a lot which is worrying. I am using less Test than my previous cycle, so what's going on? Previously I was fine on 0.5mg EOD of ADEX with 750mg Test, now I've had to take it up to 1mg ED on 250mg of Test/Tren(200mg)/Mast(200mg).

Couldn't train legs today as my knee started popping.


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## jeffj (Jun 18, 2011)

you using caber/prami/bromo?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

jeffj said:


> you using caber/prami/bromo?


No, just the following:

Test E 250mg

Tren E 200mg

Mast E 200mg

Anastrozole (ADEX) 1mg ED (as of today)

HCG (when it gets delivered!) 1000iu

T3 25mcg


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Well, I tell you what, I am really happy with how my body is shaping up  I can just see the beginning of abs poking through when I set the lighting just right. The natural gyno is still there (fatty chest tissue) but it looks a little better and I am loving the vascularity in my arms! I've always admired my mates vascular arms (no ****) when he's bicep curling, and mine are starting to come through with the reduction in body fat and the compounds I'm using.

I've taken my T3 use up to 100mcg as of yesterday as advised by @ausbuilt as I had an allergic reaction to DNP so I will have to take a slower, safer route. I will return to using an ECA stack possibly next week to shift my metabolism up a gear. I did 2 mins warm-up on the rower this morning and I was fcked! Couldn't hold a conversation because I was so out of breath.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

May I ask how much you lift and for how many reps on the big basic movements like bench press, squat, deadlift, etc.?

Just curious, no particular reason for asking.

Also, why so low on the testosterone dose?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> May I ask how much you lift and for how many reps on the big basic movements like bench press, squat, deadlift, etc.?
> 
> Just curious, no particular reason for asking.
> 
> Also, why so low on the testosterone dose?


I was born weak, I had to train to get average... so they're quite pathetic. I follow my own adaptation of Wendlers 5/3/1 so for bench I do 27.5kg (55kg) incline dumbbell press for 5/3/1 Back squat: 65kg. Deadlift: 92.5kg, and then everything after 5/3/1 is 50% lighter and for 5x10. Correct form is number 1 for me, so when doing lighter weights you can really keep your form tight, and get the full range of movement for that particular muscle. I love doing dumbbell bicep curls with the ladies 8kg dumbbells, my elbows do not move forward, reps are slow and I feel it all the way through the rep - so much pleasure that I catch myself smiling in the mirror when I'm getting to the last couple of reps and my biceps are on fire.

I went for the low Test just to hold onto the muscle while I diet. I can't see any reason to take it higher than that, yes the studies show fat loss at higher levels of Test but I didn't get that last time I cycled, I just got bloat.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Sounds like its going well. You getting pics up? How much have you lost so far?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Sounds like its going well. You getting pics up? How much have you lost so far?


No pics, I know what people are like on here and I'll get abused for not being a cover model. I haven't really lost much weight, seems to be sticking around the 70kg mark but I do look better and now that I'm on 100mcg of T3 I am hoping it'll carry on. I'm on week 5 of my cycle, not been feeling any different or getting side effects apart from my skin being a bit oiler and my voice a little deeper.


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

rectus said:


> No, just the following:
> 
> Test E 250mg
> 
> ...


Waaaaaayyyy! You did do tren afterall lol good lad :thumbup:


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

rectus said:


> No pics, I know what people are like on here and I'll get abused for not being a cover model. I haven't really lost much weight, seems to be sticking around the 70kg mark but I do look better and now that I'm on 100mcg of T3 I am hoping it'll carry on. I'm on week 5 of my cycle, not been feeling any different or getting side effects apart from my skin being a bit oiler and my voice a little deeper.


Tren will sort you mate. My boy was on tren an test at 27% BF and on a crisp and chippy diet got down to 22% just training 3times aweek lol while he was putting on muscle aswell


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

crazypaver1 said:


> Tren will sort you mate. My boy was on tren an test at 27% BF and on a crisp and chippy diet got down to 22% just training 3times aweek lol while he was putting on muscle aswell


Well then your mate's a c*nt. He must have been running a high dose? I'm only doing 200mg PW.


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## crazypaver1 (Nov 23, 2008)

rectus said:


> Well then your mate's a c*nt. He must have been running a high dose? I'm only doing 200mg PW.


Yeah pretty high lol


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

rectus said:


> No pics, I know what people are like on here and I'll get abused for not being a cover model.


F*ck 'em man.

Get those pics up.

I'm on the backside of a Test E bulking cycle and I'm going to run near enough the exact same cycle as you're doing now (I'll up the Test E a little bit on mine though).

I'm quite high BFP as one of my vials of Test was bunk so it would be interesting to see how you've leaned out and compare to me.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> F*ck 'em man.
> 
> Get those pics up.
> 
> ...


How sh!t. How do you know it was bunk? I don't know when I'm on or off, I feel exactly the same.


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

rectus said:


> How sh!t. How do you know it was bunk? I don't know when I'm on or off, I feel exactly the same.


I get the opposite and when I'm on feel totally different. It's like a "tight" feeling. There's also a few sides that come with being on and I lost those after I moved onto the bunk vial after a while. Weight gain also slowed right down. Didn't regain the feeling or the sides or put on weight until I was into the 3rd vial.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> I get the opposite and when I'm on feel totally different. It's like a "tight" feeling. There's also a few sides that come with being on and I lost those after I moved onto the bunk vial after a while. Weight gain also slowed right down. Didn't regain the feeling or the sides or put on weight until I was into the 3rd vial.


Is that "tight" feeling from an enlarged prostate? I don't switch brands during a cycle (I did once, never again) so I know it'll be consistent all the way through. I don't get sides, or feelings, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm on week 6 now and I'm not getting any of the famous Tren sides, I would have thought they would have reared their ugly head by now. I showed my sister the beginning of my abs last night, here is how the conversation went:

Rectus: "look, you can see the beginning of my abs"

Sister: "erm"

Rectus: *moves to better lighting* "can you see them?"

Sister: "erm, I... guess, if I squint"

Rectus: *walks away deflated*


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Is that "tight" feeling from an enlarged prostate? I don't switch brands during a cycle (I did once, never again) so I know it'll be consistent all the way through. I don't get sides, or feelings, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm on week 6 now and I'm not getting any of the famous Tren sides, I would have thought they would have reared their ugly head by now. I showed my sister the beginning of my abs last night, here is how the conversation went:
> 
> Rectus: "look, you can see the beginning of my abs"
> 
> ...


I would agree with your comments regarding sides, I hardly felt any sides on 500mg test, even when I added in Dbol, hardly anything, maybe a back pump or 2 with some bloat so I'm confident about trying tren. The worst sides have been so far spots on my back and side of my head and they appeared after pct! Wtf.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I would agree with your comments regarding sides, I hardly felt any sides on 500mg test, even when I added in Dbol, hardly anything, maybe a back pump or 2 with some bloat so I'm confident about trying tren. The worst sides have been so far spots on my back and side of my head and they appeared after pct! Wtf.


Yes, I get bacne during PCT too, but I don't know if you can call it a side effect as it's after the Test is out of your system and your body is trying to return to homoeostasis. I bought some 5% benzoyl peroxide from United-Pharmacies for washing my back during PCT at the end of this cycle which will hopefully help. You can't wear anything lighter than a black t-shirt. Tren is a completely different compound though, it's for cattle... so just because you're fine on Test for humans, don't expect to be fine on Tren for cows.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Yes, I get bacne during PCT too, but I don't know if you can call it a side effect as it's after the Test is out of your system and your body is trying to return to homoeostasis. I bought some 5% benzoyl peroxide from United-Pharmacies for washing my back during PCT at the end of this cycle which will hopefully help. You can't wear anything lighter than a black t-shirt. Tren is a completely different compound though, it's for cattle... so just because you're fine on Test for humans, don't expect to be fine on Tren for cows.


Would def agree, that's why I'm watching your progress with interest


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## The Cheese (Sep 22, 2012)

rectus said:


> Is that "tight" feeling from an enlarged prostate?


Only when I stick my finger up my bum and clench.

As for your sister? Forget it. Family are the worst judges.

My mother thought I was anorexic when I weighed 20 stone.

Still, she's dead now and I'm alive. So who had the last laugh?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Only when I stick my finger up my bum and clench.
> 
> As for your sister? Forget it. Family are the worst judges.
> 
> ...


Bit harsh ? lol


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

The Cheese said:


> Only when I stick my finger up my bum and clench.
> 
> As for your sister? Forget it. Family are the worst judges.
> 
> ...


LMAO! Yeah, you are the winner.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

So how do you maximise the potential fat burning effects of Tren? A low fat diet. I am doing the opposite...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I started back on an ECA stack this morning. I thought as I'd done it before I'd be ok to go straight in at the full dose... I am currently shaking like a nerd at the Playboy mansion. Half dose tomorrow!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hmmm I saw a photo of me from New Years and it looked like I was balding. I asked my hair dresser and she said my hair seems thinner. I put some gel in my hair this morning and too much hair was in my hand.

*WHAT THE FKING FCK!*

This is my worst nightmare, I didn't think we had MPB in the family. I guess I better do some reading on Finasteride.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Hmmm I saw a photo of me from New Years and it looked like I was balding. I asked my hair dresser and she said my hair seems thinner. I put some gel in my hair this morning and too much hair was in my hand.
> 
> *WHAT THE FKING FCK!*
> 
> This is my worst nightmare, I didn't think we had MPB in the family. I guess I better do some reading on Finasteride.


Bad times mate! Even worse that mpb isn't in the family.

In sure I read @stone14 posting about hair loss and aas. Maybe he could give some advice.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Advice would be good. My hair is all I have.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Hmmm just had a quick browse through the forum, Mars doesn't recommend its use. I guess I'll have to see how this pans out


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Hmmm just had a quick browse through the forum, Mars doesn't recommend its use. I guess I'll have to see how this pans out


Could always stop the mast? It's supposed to be pretty androgenic so it may be the cause.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm so weak in the gym! I can't even get close to my 5x10 structure because my muscles are so quickly fatigued, and I'm using really light weights. I know I should really switch to strength work whilst on a cut but I have no strength...

I've taken my T3 dose to the recommended 1.25mcg/kg which equals 87.5mcg for me. This is the optimal amount. The top 4 abs are still coming through when I get in the right lighting and I am loving the vascularity.


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## jeffj (Jun 18, 2011)

weak on tren??


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

jeffj said:


> weak on tren??


Ha yeah. I've read about the strength results people get with Tren and it's quite incredible, but you have to remember I am in ketosis (0 carbs) and in a calorie deficit.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I was playing with my balls last night and they felt a little smaller than usual.

Someone said hello to me today and it made me want to smash their skull in. I thought "that was odd, oh wait it must be the Tren" and then I thought "or maybe I'm just a d!ck?". Yes.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Took my ECA (still half a dose) at 05:00, by 08:30 I was shaking. My understanding was that ECA's effects were almost instant so I'm not sure why I am shaking so much, reminds of the days I used to go to work severely hungover.

I'm breathing like a fat man who's just seen a sign that reads "free cake when you sit on your **** for an hour". I am obsessed with the mirror now, to the point where I look forward to having a p!ss just so I can check out those beginner abs in the mirror. The good thing is that means my water intake has increased. The injection sites have been a bit sore but you forget about it unless you accidentally push it against something.

Masterbation levels are normal. To the best of my knowledge I have not sexually assaulted anyone which is what I expected when running Tren. No sides? WTF?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Took my ECA (still half a dose) at 05:00, by 08:30 I was shaking. My understanding was that ECA's effects were almost instant so I'm not sure why I am shaking so much, reminds of the days I used to go to work severely hungover.
> 
> I'm breathing like a fat man who's just seen a sign that reads "free cake when you sit on your **** for an hour". I am obsessed with the mirror now, to the point where I look forward to having a p!ss just so I can check out those beginner abs in the mirror. The good thing is that means my water intake has increased. The injection sites have been a bit sore but you forget about it unless you accidentally push it against something.
> 
> Masterbation levels are normal. To the best of my knowledge I have not sexually assaulted anyone which is what I expected when running Tren. No sides? WTF?


Your maybe just one of those guys that does get good sides lol.

Get pics up mate! Be good to see this transformation, might influence my next purchase.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

So today I have been thinking about possibly increasing my Tren dosage because moar Tren = moar gainz. I'm not getting any sides now, so it may not be wise to push it.

Questions for you:



*I'm at 200mg of Tren E now (+250mg Test, 200mg Mast), how high should I take it?*


*How long before the extra mg of Tren will become my new baseline?*


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

@Hotdog147 @ausbuilt

I'd like yours and anyone else who's watching to give their opinion please. I am now running a ECA stack (Lyle McDonald's favourite fat burner) but I'm running out so I need to buy more. I also need to buy some more Tren E. So here's the question:* should I buy more Ephedrine (should I even be using this with Tren?) or just increase my Tren dose?* I'm on 200mg now. I'm on week 7 and I'm certainly losing fat but I really want to get lean on this cycle.

I am so 'kin weak in the gym! For some reason my weight and reps are going down, and I'm doing a hypertrophy programme which means the weights are already light as it is. I guess I'll just have to grin and bear it until I look how I want to look.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

i find tren thrives on carbs when i run it, if i dont have a moderate ammount of carbs am shaking like a ****ting dog, in a cal deficit ketosis id expect your strength to drop alot, no carbs to refuel glycogen levels, how long you been on the tren?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> i find tren thrives on carbs when i run it, if i dont have a moderate ammount of carbs am shaking like a ****ting dog, in a cal deficit ketosis id expect your strength to drop alot, no carbs to refuel glycogen levels, how long you been on the tren?


Well apparently if you want Tren to increase your fat loss rate you're better off doing a low fat diet, there's a scientific explanation but I haven't looked into it yet so I can't say any more than that. I've been doing keto for 5 months, and Tren for 7 weeks. The jab today was a strange one, it was quite hard to get the pin in, and when I took it out this little lump appeared which has now gone black. Not had that before.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

rectus said:


> Well apparently if you want Tren to increase your fat loss rate you're better off doing a low fat diet, there's a scientific explanation but I haven't looked into it yet so I can't say any more than that. I've been doing keto for 5 months, and Tren for 7 weeks. The jab today was a strange one, it was quite hard to get the pin in, and when I took it out this little lump appeared which has now gone black. Not had that before.


do you rotate sites? sounds like scar tissue, maybe time to open another jab site rect, tren isnt directly a fot loss med, its more of amuscle and strength building hormone, fat loss is more of a by product of its strength i believe, so i wouldnt use it for that case, id use it as an aid when im already lean, anyone can lose fat on a low carb diet even without aas, id rotate medium and low carb days, keep your body moving and give you abit more energy on lifting days for better lifts aswell as still aiding fat loss


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Something is definitely wrong if your strength is going down on AAS let alone using the most androgenic compound known to man. Are you hitting your protein requirements? How much lbm have you gained during this cycle?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> do you rotate sites? sounds like scar tissue, maybe time to open another jab site rect, tren isnt directly a fot loss med, its more of amuscle and strength building hormone, fat loss is more of a by product of its strength i believe, so i wouldnt use it for that case, id use it as an aid when im already lean, anyone can lose fat on a low carb diet even without aas, id rotate medium and low carb days, keep your body moving and give you abit more energy on lifting days for better lifts aswell as still aiding fat loss


I do indeed rotate sites: right stomach, right thigh, left thigh, left stomach. I won't ever go to my glutes because I'm not going to inject where I can't see, plus I sit on my 4rse a lot. I lost fat naturally on keto but I hit a wall and I wanted to speed up the process and preserve the little muscle I do have - Tren is an excellent assist. See, I don't get on well with carbs (IBS) so this diet is perfect in that respect, but yes, energy in the gym is the problem. I will evolve it into a 'timed carb paleo diet' when I get lean enough to bulk though. I think a low fat diet will mess me up as it will naturally be carb heavy.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Fat said:


> Something is definitately wrong if your strength is going down on AAS let alone using the most androgenic compound known to man. Are you hitting your protein requirements? How much lbm have you gained during this cycle?


Remember I'm on a cut, I have gained nothing. If you haven't read the other posts I am running: 250mg Test E/200mg Masteron E, 200mg Tren E, 0.5mg ADEX ED, 87.5mcg T3, 1000iu HCG, ECA. Protein and fat is all I eat, I get plenty of protein from eggs, whey and chicken.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

rectus said:


> I do indeed rotate sites: right stomach, right thigh, left thigh, left stomach. I won't ever go to my glutes because I'm not going to inject where I can't see, plus I sit on my 4rse a lot. I lost fat naturally on keto but I hit a wall and I wanted to speed up the process and preserve the little muscle I do have - Tren is an excellent assist. See, I don't get on well with carbs (IBS) so this diet is perfect in that respect, but yes, energy in the gym is the problem. I will evolve it into a 'timed carb paleo diet' when I get lean enough to bulk though. I think a low fat diet will mess me up as it will naturally be carb heavy.


im not sure on the sub-q absortbtion rates on tren, although i can see it being not as smooth as test, id consider moving onto jabbing im onto quads along with your sub-q, to prevent muscle loss whilst dieting i wouldve opted for low dose test, wouldve done this job superbly, ive used it myself to cut, test alone, and test/npp

both where excellent for preserving muscle and strength whilst being on minimal carbs,

i have stomack issues sometimes, if anything id time your carbs pre and post workout, just minimal ammount to help restore glycogen levels and keep energy stable through workouts, no point training if you cant use maximum effort because your energy is down,


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> im not sure on the sub-q absortbtion rates on tren, although i can see it being not as smooth as test, id consider moving onto jabbing im onto quads along with your sub-q, to prevent muscle loss whilst dieting i wouldve opted for low dose test, wouldve done this job superbly, ive used it myself to cut, test alone, and test/npp
> 
> both where excellent for preserving muscle and strength whilst being on minimal carbs,
> 
> i have stomack issues sometimes, if anything id time your carbs pre and post workout, just minimal ammount to help restore glycogen levels and keep energy stable through workouts, no point training if you cant use maximum effort because your energy is down,


Good point, I know about the absorption rates of Test but not Tren, it wouldn't be documented so it's just guesswork. It clearly is working using this method though, I feel solid, look leaner. Yeah, planned to take carbs only pre-workout but I need to read into what would be the best carb source and when to take it. I know palumbo recommends waxy maize. Do you really need carbs post workout? I don't think so, whey gives you the insulin spike you're after.


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

rectus said:


> Good point, I know about the absorption rates of Test but not Tren, it wouldn't be documented so it's just guesswork. It clearly is working using this method though, I feel solid, look leaner. Yeah, planned to take carbs only pre-workout but I need to read into what would be the best carb source and when to take it. I know palumbo recommends waxy maize. Do you really need carbs post workout? I don't think so, whey gives you the insulin spike you're after.


not so much the insulin spike, one of the mods mentioned something about carbs being beneficial in post workout nutrition to replace glycogen stores which is important for fueling and preserving muscle i think, ill try and find the thread mate, vitargo is probs good waxy maise starch cant see a problem but that is primarily a sugar,


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## zack amin (Mar 13, 2012)

@Pscarb and @Tinytom i think it was but i could just be making up bullsh1t


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> Good point, I know about the absorption rates of Test but not Tren, it wouldn't be documented so it's just guesswork. It clearly is working using this method though, I feel solid, look leaner. Yeah, planned to take carbs only pre-workout but I need to read into what would be the best carb source and when to take it. I know palumbo recommends waxy maize. Do you really need carbs post workout? I don't think so, whey gives you the insulin spike you're after.


CBL which seems to be popular is all about post workout carbs and no pre workout carbs. Maybe you could have a nosey at that as there is some interesting science at the root of it.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

zack amin said:


> not so much the insulin spike, one of the mods mentioned something about carbs being beneficial in post workout nutrition to replace glycogen stores which is important for fueling and preserving muscle i think, ill try and find the thread mate, vitargo is probs good waxy maise starch cant see a problem but that is primarily a sugar,


Well the important point about waxy maize starch is the size of the molecule. Palumbo uses the analogy of a tanker in the ocean (large waxy maize molecule), if you're swimming in the water near the tanker you're going to be sucked towards the tanker because of its massive drawing power, where as if a jet ski (sugar) went past you in the ocean, you wouldn't move because it doesn't have that same drawing power. Hope I didn't mess that up too much haha. I don't have glycogen stores remember. If I add in carbs pre-workout that'll fuel me for the session and deplete my stores again.

@JasonDB could you chime in on my thread?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> CBL which seems to be popular is all about post workout carbs and no pre workout carbs. Maybe you could have a nosey at that as there is some interesting science at the root of it.


Carb back loading? I have been meaning to read up on that, i'll put it to the top of my list.

I'm going to double my Tren dosage from 200mg to 400mg. Might be a mistake but f*ck it.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi Mate, I would look at 2 options:

Figure out roughly how many cals you burn during your workout, then consider that carbs are 4 cals per gram. Take the same amount of carbs in about 45 mins before your workout and this should carry you through. Give this a go for 1 week to evaluate.

You might also consider a full weekend of carbs from Fri to Sun evening just to kick your body up the ars3. Keep them clean and this shouldn't overly affect your cut in the long term.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

zack amin said:


> @Pscarb and @Tinytom i think it was but i could just be making up bullsh1t


I have a 100g vitargo 50g isolate drink straight after training.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Tinytom said:


> I have a 100g vitargo 50g isolate drink straight after training.


Just having a quick read on Bulkpowders where it states it's superior to maltodextrin and dextrose but it doesn't mention waxy maize.


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## Tinytom (Sep 16, 2005)

rectus said:


> Just having a quick read on Bulkpowders where it states it's superior to maltodextrin and dextrose but it doesn't mention waxy maize.


Vitargo is barley based - hydrolysed barley starch.

WMS is corn based - waxy maize starch.

Vitargo I believe has gone through a process to make it easier to absorb. WMS hasn't which may be why the price is so different.

Barley is a superior carbohydrate source from my experience.

Try adding barley flakes to your oatmeal. Gives a fuller feeling quicker. As in muscular fullness.


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> Carb back loading? I have been meaning to read up on that, i'll put it to the top of my list.
> 
> I'm going to double my Tren dosage from 200mg to 400mg. Might be a mistake but f*ck it.


Yea mate that's it.

Regarding pre workout carbs, I've been trying to find actual studies on this. I don't believe you can dictate where the carbs go. So you take carbs and work out, you would 'expect' muscles to take priority over the liver, but i don't know if there is any proof? So all you'd do is take yourself out of ketosis and have no energy benefit unless you took a fvckton.

Just my thoughts.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Yea mate that's it.
> 
> Regarding pre workout carbs, I've been trying to find actual studies on this. I don't believe you can dictate where the carbs go. So you take carbs and work out, you would 'expect' muscles to take priority over the liver, but i don't know if there is any proof? So all you'd do is take yourself out of ketosis and have no energy benefit unless you took a fvckton.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


Hmmm very interesting, I need more information if you can find it. @dtlv might able to help on this subject.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Yea mate that's it.
> 
> Regarding pre workout carbs, I've been trying to find actual studies on this. I don't believe you can dictate where the carbs go. So you take carbs and work out, you would 'expect' muscles to take priority over the liver, but i don't know if there is any proof? So all you'd do is take yourself out of ketosis and have no energy benefit unless you took a fvckton.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


Where the carbs go will primarily be dictated by existing levels of liver glycogen... if empty then most will go there as priority, if full then more will hit the bloodstream. After that it then also depends on muscle glycogen stores and whether the carbs hit before exercise has initiated or during, so is hard to predict exactly... overal the liver and brain always gets first grab on glucose (with the liver getting total grabs on fructose and galactose), then the second pick is by the digestive system, then the other ograns then muscle glycogen stores, and then finally fat cells. Is pretty hard to predict overall because of all those variables, and one tracer experiment in one set of conditions will not represent other conditions, so you can't even rely on the studies for absolute answers.

From my understanding of all the data I have seen the only advantages of pre workout fast carbs come in carb depleted states and as a carb load, which enhances moderately high VO2 max anaerobic exercise performance compared to the depleted state, and also *fasted* resistance exercise where insulin elevated during the session marginally inhibits cortisol and protein degradation compared to training at baseline insulin... this only would occur though in cases of low glycogen and low insulin, so is likely pointless if a pre workout meal of either protein or carbs (or both) has occurred even if as long before as 3-4 hours... insulin in this case will still be elevated enough to help.


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

dtlv said:


> Where the carbs go will primarily be dictated by existing levels of liver glycogen... if empty then most will go there as priority, if full then more will hit the bloodstream. After that it then also depends on muscle glycogen stores and whether the carbs hit before exercise has initiated or during, so is hard to predict exactly... overal the liver and brain always gets first grab on glucose (with the liver getting total grabs on fructose and galactose), then the second pick is by the digestive system, then the other ograns then muscle glycogen stores, and then finally fat cells. Is pretty hard to predict overall because of all those variables, and one tracer experiment in one set of conditions will not represent other conditions, so you can't even rely on the studies for absolute answers.
> 
> From my understanding of all the data I have seen the only advantages of pre workout fast carbs come in carb depleted states and as a carb load, which enhances moderately high VO2 max anaerobic exercise performance compared to the depleted state, and also *fasted* resistance exercise where insulin elevated during the session marginally inhibits cortisol and protein degradation compared to training at baseline insulin... this only would occur though in cases of low glycogen and low insulin, so is likely pointless if a pre workout meal of either protein or carbs (or both) has occurred even if as long before as 3-4 hours... insulin in this case will still be elevated enough to help.


Rectus is on keto (ain't ya?) as am I. So will have low insulin levels and all round depleted glycogen stores. I'm wondering would it be best to take a pre workout supplement like Jack3D etc, take some BCAAs and train, then load carbs after (lots of carbs, to ensure muscles are refilled).

Some kind of keto/IF/CBL whore monster.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Rectus is on keto (ain't ya?) as am I. So will have low insulin levels and all round depleted glycogen stores. I'm wondering would it be best to take a pre workout supplement like Jack3D etc, take some BCAAs and train, then load carbs after (lots of carbs, to ensure muscles are refilled).
> 
> Some kind of keto/IF/CBL whore monster.


Indeed I am on keto. If you're loading carbs post workout, you're no longer going to be ketogenic. Pre-workout and you'll burn through them. As DTLV has said, it's a hard thing to measure so I guess it's best to first go with what people have found to work as a baseline and then adjust it from there. The trouble with me is that I am not in touch with my body so I don't notice changes in energy in the short term.


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> Indeed I am on keto. If you're loading carbs post workout, you're no longer going to be ketogenic. *Pre-workout and you'll burn through them.* As DTLV has said, it's a hard thing to measure so I guess it's best to first go with what people have found to work as a baseline and then adjust it from there. The trouble with me is that I am not in touch with my body so I don't notice changes in energy in the short term.


This is what I mean though, even according to dltv's post, there are lots of variables at play and I don't think you can guarantee you'll burn through them (or even get the use of most of them). Saying that, just try it and see... AND POST RESULTS


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## simonthepieman (Jun 11, 2012)

rectus said:


> Pre-workout and you'll burn through them. .


absolutely not true.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ok, understood.


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## The-Alchemist (Jan 18, 2013)

Hi Rectus

How do you feel the t3 is working for you ? and would you mind expanding on the results as they came week by week

im on the verge of ordering some to add into the final 6 weeks of my test e course


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

The-Alchemist said:


> Hi Rectus
> 
> How do you feel the t3 is working for you ? and would you mind expanding on the results as they came week by week
> 
> im on the verge of ordering some to add into the final 6 weeks of my test e course


What's your bodyfat like? Looking to lean out? I really like T3, been on it for so long now I've forgotten  It's working for me, but all the elements of the cycle are working together to create a more magnificent Rectus. Out of all the cutting agents T3 is the safest. Well, I look in the mirror a lot and I am smiling back for a change. I feel like I'm stuck right now but I think I'm just looking at my lower stomach which still hangs over my belt slighly. Go higher up though and you can feel the muscle separation without too much pressure. I care mostly about losing my chest fat as that has been a problem I have had for years and it's pretty depressing. If dieting and this cycle doesn't fix it then I don't know what I'll do. I would always run T3 on a cycle anyway, whether it be a bulk or cut, just change the dose accordingly to fit your goals: low dose = bulk, high dose = cut.


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> What's your bodyfat like? Looking to lean out? I really like T3, been on it for so long now I've forgotten  It's working for me, but all the elements of the cycle are working together to create a more magnificent Rectus. Out of all the cutting agents T3 is the safest. Well, I look in the mirror a lot and I am smiling back for a change. I feel like I'm stuck right now but I think I'm just looking at my lower stomach which still hangs over my belt slighly. Go higher up though and you can feel the muscle separation without too much pressure. I care mostly about losing my chest fat as that has been a problem I have had for years and it's pretty depressing. If dieting and this cycle doesn't fix it then I don't know what I'll do. I would always run T3 on a cycle anyway, whether it be a bulk or cut, just change the dose accordingly to fit your goals: low dose = bulk, high dose = cut.


Out of curiousity are you cycling the T3 on and off every few days and/or monitoring your body temperature or just throwing it into ya?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Out of curiousity are you cycling the T3 on and off every few days and/or monitoring your body temperature or just throwing it into ya?


I spent a lot of money on a thermometer, I used it for about 2 weeks and thought "f*ck it, it's not accurate and do I really need to do this?". So I throw 3.5 tabs down my gullet every evening.


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## The-Alchemist (Jan 18, 2013)

rectus said:


> What's your bodyfat like? Looking to lean out? I really like T3, been on it for so long now I've forgotten  It's working for me, but all the elements of the cycle are working together to create a more magnificent Rectus. Out of all the cutting agents T3 is the safest. Well, I look in the mirror a lot and I am smiling back for a change. I feel like I'm stuck right now but I think I'm just looking at my lower stomach which still hangs over my belt slighly. Go higher up though and you can feel the muscle separation without too much pressure. I care mostly about losing my chest fat as that has been a problem I have had for years and it's pretty depressing. If dieting and this cycle doesn't fix it then I don't know what I'll do. I would always run T3 on a cycle anyway, whether it be a bulk or cut, just change the dose accordingly to fit your goals: low dose = bulk, high dose = cut.


my bodyfat is strange, i am very lean in the legs and arms but i carry fat on my chest and love handles which i cannot seem to shift. I have read this could be down to high oestrogen.

I am pretty sure i am going to run t3, ive even robbed an ear thermometer from work as a sign of my comittment. Im just not sure whos t3 to buy. United pharmacies have some made by glaxosmithkline, one of the biggest pharma companies on the planet so i wanted those but they are out of stock and never coming back. I can also get uni pharma but ive read they are weak. So the other option is dhacks stuff, but im guessing his stuff will be in powder filled caps instead of tabs and they are filled at 50mcg so the dosing during tapering will be a problem.

What dose are you running it at ? and how did you work your taper ?


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> I spent a lot of money on a thermometer, I used it for about 2 weeks and thought "f*ck it, it's not accurate and do I really need to do this?". So I throw 3.5 tabs down my gullet every evening.


You know your body and know more about this shiz than I, but in the interests of health, are you not worried about your thyroid when you come off them? I know @ausbuilt recommended 2 days on 2 off to minimize risk.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Rectus is on keto (ain't ya?) as am I. So will have low insulin levels and all round depleted glycogen stores. I'm wondering would it be best to take a pre workout supplement like Jack3D etc, take some BCAAs and train, then load carbs after (lots of carbs, to ensure muscles are refilled).
> 
> Some kind of keto/IF/CBL whore monster.


I'd say BCAAs or EAAs is more important pre workout than carbs, so do that then if you want to take carbs PWO do it backload style (although carbs are too high with a standard backload for ketosis)... alternatively if you want to use carbs around the workout but keep as close to a keto diet as possible do a TKD diet, with controlled amounts of carbs immediately pre and post only.

As said, is tricky to trace exactly where all the carbs will go, but does it really matter? The body will do the thing that benefits it best (whatever that might be at the time) and is results that count, and you only find results with trying new things out.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

The-Alchemist said:


> my bodyfat is strange, i am very lean in the legs and arms but i carry fat on my chest and love handles which i cannot seem to shift. I have read this could be down to high oestrogen.
> 
> I am pretty sure i am going to run t3, ive even robbed an ear thermometer from work as a sign of my comittment. Im just not sure whos t3 to buy. United pharmacies have some made by glaxosmithkline, one of the biggest pharma companies on the planet so i wanted those but they are out of stock and never coming back. I can also get uni pharma but ive read they are weak. So the other option is dhacks stuff, but im guessing his stuff will be in powder filled caps instead of tabs and they are filled at 50mcg so the dosing during tapering will be a problem.
> 
> What dose are you running it at ? and how did you work your taper ?


My body fat distribution is the same as yours, you can't tell my body fat is high in a t-shirt, you'd think I was lean. Only buy pharma grade T3. I didn't purposely taper (I think tapering is a waste of time), I started on 25mcg some time ago just to compensate for the fact I was on keto, then I took it up to 50mcg when I started DNP, then I took it up to 100mcg when I started my Test/Tren/Mast cycle, then I took it down to 87.5mcg as that is the optimal amount for my weight. So, I have probably been running T3 for 5 months +



AlwaysANewb said:


> You know your body and know more about this shiz than I, but in the interests of health, are you not worried about your thyroid when you come off them? I know @ausbuilt recommended 2 days on 2 off to minimize risk.


Not quite, I am not in touch with my body at all. I don't notice when I am on anything really, apart from the first week of Ephedrine. Minimise risk of what? Rebound? I'm not tapering off either. Yeah I am a rebel.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dtlv said:


> with controlled amounts of carbs immediately pre and post only.


This is what I did plan to do. I just hope I don't somehow manage to convince myself a plate of chips is ok pre-workout...


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> ...
> 
> Not quite, I am not in touch with my body at all. I don't notice when I am on anything really, apart from the first week of Ephedrine. Minimise risk of what? Rebound? I'm not tapering off either. Yeah I am a rebel.


As far as I know, high/long T3 use can result in permanent thyroid down-regulation, meaning when you drop the T3 supplement, your thyroid doesn't pick up the void you left. End result is you're prescribed T3 for life by the doc.


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## RowRow (Nov 17, 2011)

rectus said:


> My body fat distribution is the same as yours, you can't tell my body fat is high in a t-shirt, you'd think I was lean. Only buy pharma grade T3. I didn't purposely taper (I think tapering is a waste of time), I started on 25mcg some time ago just to compensate for the fact I was on keto, then I took it up to 50mcg when I started DNP, then I took it up to 100mcg when I started my Test/Tren/Mast cycle, then I took it down to 87.5mcg as that is the optimal amount for my weight. So, I have probably been running T3 for 5 months +
> 
> Not quite, I am not in touch with my body at all. I don't notice when I am on anything really, apart from the first week of Ephedrine. Minimise risk of what? Rebound? I'm not tapering off either. Yeah I am a rebel.


Hey mate how did you figure out the optimal amount of t3 for your weight?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> As far as I know, high/long T3 use can result in permanent thyroid down-regulation, meaning when you drop the T3 supplement, your thyroid doesn't pick up the void you left. End result is you're prescribed T3 for life by the doc.


Theres studies on people being prescribed thyroid meds for a long time, they came off and natural production resumed.

Ausbuilt has posted it numerous time on here.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> As far as I know, high/long T3 use can result in permanent thyroid down-regulation, meaning when you drop the T3 supplement, your thyroid doesn't pick up the void you left. End result is you're prescribed T3 for life by the doc.


WRONG. This is a myth.



RowRow said:


> Hey mate how did you figure out the optimal amount of t3 for your weight?


1.25mcg x 70kg = 87.5mcg


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Did you roughly calculate how many calories you burn during your training session after? Could be a plan just for a weeks trial to get those carbs in before the session at the same cal value, as I don't think this will be detrimental.

Nothing ventured...


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Theres studies on people being prescribed thyroid meds for a long time, they came off and natural production resumed.
> 
> Ausbuilt has posted it numerous time on here.


Then why does ausbuilt cycle it 2 days on 2 days off, with constant temperature monitoring. Including coming off early if there is a temperature abnormality. All I'm saying is, this sh1t is illegal without prescription for a reason and to treat it with caution and respect.

Edit: btw I'm not saying there aren't studies and he hasn't quoted them, I'd just be cautious.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Then why does ausbuilt cycle it 2 days on 2 days off, with constant temperature monitoring. Including coming off early if there is a temperature abnormality. All I'm saying is, this sh1t is illegal without prescription for a reason and to treat it with caution and respect.


To stop rebound effects, so when you stop the weight doesn't jump back on. I don't treat it with caution or respect, you stop doing that after a while and take anything and everything you can get your hands on. It's mental.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Then why does ausbuilt cycle it 2 days on 2 days off, with constant temperature monitoring. Including coming off early if there is a temperature abnormality. All I'm saying is, this sh1t is illegal without prescription for a reason and to treat it with caution and respect.
> 
> Edit: btw I'm not saying there aren't studies and he hasn't quoted them, I'd just be cautious.


2 on and 2 off is to prevent thyroid rebound when it is discontinued, nothing to do with shutting down your thyroid permanently.

Try reading Dan Duchaines body Opus. its in there..



ausbuilt said:


> your thyroid will not f**k up... it may get suppressed,but rebounds in 2-8weeks in full.
> 
> The idea is not to get to that point.
> 
> ...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dt36 said:


> Did you roughly calculate how many calories you burn during your training session after? Could be a plan just for a weeks trial to get those carbs in before the session at the same cal value, as I don't think this will be detrimental.
> 
> Nothing ventured...


Using a heart rate monitor (I have one, though it is less accurate than it used to be)? Or is there another calculation I am not aware of?

I know I complained about my declining strength, and it's not ideal but my only goal now is to get lean. I have wasted so many years putting on muscle and I still look sh!t because I made the mistake of never cutting first. Sure it's great to have muscle, but if your body fat is too high then what's the point? So I will focus on this and this alone. Strength and size will come later.


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> To stop rebound effects, so when you stop the weight doesn't jump back on. I don't treat it with caution or respect, you stop doing that after a while and take anything and everything you can get your hands on. It's mental.


Look, I just won't want Zangief to kick the sh1t outa you at the big match because you've fvcked yourself on T3 you crazy green b4stard.

Thanks for the info Rich, I still think genetics play a part and some people (maybe only a few) are unlucky.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Look, I just won't want Zangief to kick the sh1t outa you at the big match because you've fvcked yourself on T3 you crazy green b4stard.
> 
> Thanks for the info Rich.


I'm not green yet, still looking for the holy grail compound that Ferrigno used in The Incredible Hulk.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Using a heart rate monitor (I have one, though it is less accurate than it used to be)? Or is there another calculation I am not aware of?
> 
> I know I complained about my declining strength, and it's not ideal but my only goal now is to get lean. I have wasted so many years putting on muscle and I still look sh!t because I made the mistake of never cutting first. Sure it's great to have muscle, but if your body fat is too high then what's the point? So I will focus on this and this alone. Strength and size will come later.


Never a truer word spoken.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Edit: btw I'm not saying there aren't studies and he hasn't quoted them, I'd just be cautious.


This board isn't my only source of information. If you're going to run something you don't know about, especially if it can potentially cause permanent damage, you have to look a lot deeper into it which I did.


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## bailey-bose (Dec 30, 2011)

rectus said:


> Good afternoon Gentlemen.
> 
> *The Basics:*
> 
> ...


*1)* - Yes i think tren can be for bulk/cut anything really (but cardio might suffer abit)

*2)* - I would start at 250mg a week for the first 3weeks see how you get on with the side effects then up it if you can handle them.

*3)* - Tren - E, (less injections)

*4)* - You could add a bit of mast around 300mg a week to combat sleeping problems and gyno problems.

- Adex & nolva

make sure you keep testosterone going 2 weeks after your tren, as its more easy for recovery

1 - 12 Test E - 500mg

1 - 10 Tren E - 300mg

simple very effective cycle 

i think realistic from 21% on tren/test cycle with a good diet and training plan ... i think you will get down to 15%

NOTE: Fcuk all these idiots on here saying 21% is too high, tren will work if your 40% or if your 4% people use tren in different ways


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

bailey-bose said:


> *1)* - Yes i think tren can be for bulk/cut anything really (but cardio might suffer abit)
> 
> *2)* - I would start at 250mg a week for the first 3weeks see how you get on with the side effects then up it if you can handle them.
> 
> ...


Well thank you for the input, albeit a bit late as I've been on cycle for 7 weeks now  This thread is now a log (I did change the title of the thread but it didn't work)

The cycle I am running: 250mg Test E/200mg Tren E/200mg Mast E for 16 weeks.

I started on 200mg Tren, no sides, I'm going to push it to 300mg. Do you have any idea how long it will take for me to start feeling sides if this is the amount that effects me negatively?


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Try this link below and search for weight lifting. It's fairly easy to use:

://www.prohealth.com/weightloss/tools/exercise/calculator1_2.cfm

Find the amount of calories for your activity, then either base your pre workout carbs on this, or if cautious then set it to about 75%. Just remember to also factor in the other calorie macros for the amount of protein and fat when you do the maths. The combination of all 3 macros should be your overall total calorie count.

Fat: 1 gram = 9 calories

Protein: 1 gram = 4 calories

Carbohydrates: 1 gram = 4 calories

I have cut and pasted a few food types of a page I just found, but forgot to copy the link:

*Bananas and other fruits*

Although it is widely believed that the sugar in bananas can make you fat, it is actually a very digestible form of carbohydrate. Furthermore, bananas are packed with potassium, which aids in maintaining proper nerve and muscle function. Since your body doesn't store this nutrient for long periods, an intense workout is enough to make your potassium level drop. Apples, peaches, pineapples, and grapes are also good choices for an energizing snack.

What to eat: 1 medium banana (105 calories, 27 grams carbs, 1 gram protein, 0.5 gram fat).

*Oatmeal*

Since oats are full of fiber, they are low on the glycemic index. Therefore, the carbs are released into your bloodstream gradually, keeping your energy levels constant during your workout. They also contain B vitamins, which are energizing, stress-lowering, and help to convert carbs into energy.

What to eat: 1 cup of oatmeal (145 calories, 25 grams carbs, 6 grams protein, 2 grams fat).

*Yogurt*

The magnesium in yogurt can give you an energy kick for your workout as it activates enzymes that are involved in the metabolism of protein and carbs. It also provides the explosive source of energy used for lifting weights. Therefore, yogurt is a good choice before both cardio and weightlifting sessions.

What to eat: 8 ounces low-fat plain yogurt (130 calories, 15 grams carbs, 11 grams protein, 3 grams fat).


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

rectus said:


> This is what I did plan to do. I just hope I don't somehow manage to convince myself a plate of chips is ok pre-workout...


Haha, do it! :devil2:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

This thread is missing something...






DON'T DO IT!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ahhh sh!t! So, I created a little collage from 2010 to today. Yes I know I look like I've never lifted, yes that is some serious gyno, and I look like a piece of sh!t etc


http://imgur.com/gugbg

. Go easy, uploading these photos was a big step for me.


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm sure you'll get a lot of haters after posting those pics but i'd say that your progress in the last 4 months has been great. Definitely looking a lot leaner.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Changes are clear to see from Nov. Keep at it now and keep taking the pics.

As you are getting leaner the improvments are showing each month. Good work...


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## bailey-bose (Dec 30, 2011)

rectus said:


> Well thank you for the input, albeit a bit late as I've been on cycle for 7 weeks now  This thread is now a log (I did change the title of the thread but it didn't work)
> 
> The cycle I am running: 250mg Test E/200mg Tren E/200mg Mast E for 16 weeks.
> 
> I started on 200mg Tren, no sides, I'm going to push it to 300mg. Do you have any idea how long it will take for me to start feeling sides if this is the amount that effects me negatively?


sorry mate i didnt check the date or read the other posts

7 weeks on tren with no sides at all is enough time to see sides

sides like, acne & insomnia are the most common so if you havent had these then you should be good to go with upping the dosage

but if on 200mg a week you are feeling the GOOD effects like strength & muscle mass then why up it? (if its not broke dont fix it)

only thing i wouldnt do is be on tren e for 16weeks... 12 weeks max for me (buts thats just my opinion)

when i did tren at 400mg for 12 weeks the only side effect i got was acne on my back, strength was insane and lean muscle went up and i dropped 3% in fat aswell.

my next cycle is same as yours test e 500mg /tren e 400mg /mast e 400mg (lean muscle cycle)


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks guys



bailey-bose said:


> sorry mate i didnt check the date or read the other posts
> 
> 7 weeks on tren with no sides at all is enough time to see sides
> 
> ...


The concept of "if it isn't broken, then there is no need to fix it" is a good one, but I understand that more Tren = more results (to a degree). I'm not stronger on it, quite the opposite - never been weaker! Muscle mass is steady, looks like I'm maintaining rather than growing. What's your <12 weeks of Tren recommendation based on? As I'm nearly half way through my cycle I think I should take the risk of doubling the Tren dose, I want to be able to take my shirt off in the summer... yeah a big ask I know. May actually need surgery for the gyno (natural).


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Ahhh sh!t! So, I created a little collage from 2010 to today. Yes I know I look like I've never lifted, yes that is some serious gyno, and I look like a piece of sh!t etc
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/gugbg
> ...


Decent progress mate. Keep at.


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## bailey-bose (Dec 30, 2011)

rectus said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> The concept of "if it isn't broken, then there is no need to fix it" is a good one, but I understand that more Tren = more results (to a degree). I'm not stronger on it, quite the opposite - never been weaker! Muscle mass is steady, looks like I'm maintaining rather than growing. What's your <12 weeks of Tren recommendation based on? As I'm nearly half way through my cycle I think I should take the risk of doubling the Tren dose, I want to be able to take my shirt off in the summer... yeah a big ask I know. May actually need surgery for the gyno (natural).


i ment if its not broke dont fix it as in .... if your gaining strength and muscle mass then leave it

but if you say your just maintaining strength and muscle then yes i would up it to 300mg for 2 weeks see how sides are then go up to 400mg to the end of cycle.

personally i just think tren is a massive drug to take for anyone, so 10-12 weeks on tren is enough

blood pressure and being shut down is big for tren, so the longer you are on tren the harder it is to recover.

but saying that 200mg is quite low dosage, so maybe 400mg at 10-12weeks will benefit you alot more than 200mg for 16weeks.

i just like to be safe as possible when it comes to steroids like tren

how is your sex drive? as i hear that test and mast combine makes it go through the roof


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

bailey-bose said:


> i ment if its not broke dont fix it as in .... if your gaining strength and muscle mass then leave it
> 
> but if you say your just maintaining strength and muscle then yes i would up it to 300mg for 2 weeks see how sides are then go up to 400mg to the end of cycle.
> 
> ...


Losing strength actually haha. Impossible!

Yeh, I need to decide whether to go for 300mg or just take it up to 400mg and stop pussyfooting around. You're right about blood pressure, I've not measured it (I keep meaning to but I'm afraid of the results) but I can feel my heart beating much harder. Did a superset (upper/lower) weights session today and it nearly killed me! Sex drive? Well I just had 2 w4nks which is standard practice for me. My drive has always been quite high anyway, I never get extra boners points on Test.


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## The-Alchemist (Jan 18, 2013)

"created a collage" how camp haha

youre starting to take shape now though, youre definately in the best shape of your life anyway

ive just ordered some tiromel, cannot wait to get crackinggggggg


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## bailey-bose (Dec 30, 2011)

rectus said:


> Losing strength actually haha. Impossible!
> 
> Yeh, I need to decide whether to go for 300mg or just take it up to 400mg and stop pussyfooting around. You're right about blood pressure, I've not measured it (I keep meaning to but I'm afraid of the results) but I can feel my heart beating much harder. Did a superset (upper/lower) weights session today and it nearly killed me! Sex drive? Well I just had 2 w4nks which is standard practice for me. My drive has always been quite high anyway, I never get extra boners points on Test.


losing strength?? is this due to low calories from the cut?

if you feel fine on the tren then i would just go on the 400mg soon as possible get your strength back up and gaining muscle.

what bodyfat are you now mate? as you say your maintaining muscle so are you looking alot more lean?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

bailey-bose said:


> losing strength?? is this due to low calories from the cut?
> 
> if you feel fine on the tren then i would just go on the 400mg soon as possible get your strength back up and gaining muscle.
> 
> what bodyfat are you now mate? as you say your maintaining muscle so are you looking alot more lean?


Yes, not only lower calories but 0 carbs (keto) so doubly devastating to my performance in the gym. I am 18.7% last time I checked but I am so much more leaner than I was when measured the same body fat pre-cycle. I can't stop feeling my stomach, I was encouraging my friends to touch it last night which made them feel uncomfortable but I reasoned "I've been dieting for 5 months ffs, feel it!". I'm very happy about the upper ab area leaning out but I won't be truly happy until the fat goes from my chest which I fear will be never. I am looking better than ever, my favourite feature is the bicep vein poking it's head up when I train


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

rectus said:


> Yes, not only lower calories but 0 carbs (keto) so doubly devastating to my performance in the gym. I am 18.7% last time I checked but I am so much more leaner than I was when measured the same body fat pre-cycle. I can't stop feeling my stomach, I was encouraging my friends to touch it last night which made them feel uncomfortable but I reasoned "I've been dieting for 5 months ffs, feel it!". I'm very happy about the upper ab area leaning out but I won't be truly happy until the fat goes from my chest which I fear will be never. I am looking better than ever, my favourite feature is the bicep vein poking it's head up when I train


I'm thinking of moving from keto to lean gains, the results of Martin's clients are pretty amazing. Have you looked at it?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> I'm thinking of moving from keto to lean gains, the results of Martin's clients are pretty amazing. Have you looked at it?


I certainly have, read the majority of his articles too - the man blows my mind. Though just because he's ripped all year round doesn't mean everyone else who follows IF will be, he's just found what works for him. The debate currently is about protein, and if you want to put on muscle can you go so long without ingesting protein? Layne Norton (who ingests protein regularly) vs the Intermittent Fasters. IF sounds very manageable but the trouble is that I just don't get on with carbs so I don't think it'll be ideal for me. Paleo is where I am going after keto does its thing.

I'm getting a lot of cramps in the gym, even in my hands so I can't grip the bar for as long, messing up my set.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> I'm thinking of moving from keto to lean gains, the results of Martin's clients are pretty amazing. Have you looked at it?


Doing this myself.

Down to 186 from the 204lbs since 2nd January.

@Fatstuff is also a big fan. It works and works well, I count all calories and cycle them.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@rectus - for how much longer will you be on-cycle?

I saw your photos - you've made some good and extremely noticeable improvements. Good stuff mate!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> @rectus - for how much longer will you be on-cycle?
> 
> I saw your photos - you've made some good and extremely noticeable improvements. Good stuff mate!


Thanks  I have another 2 months left and my Tren dosage will double for those last 2. I have to get the fat off my chest on this cycle, there is no way it's going to happen off-cycle so if that means I have to extend it, I will.

Would you change anything to increase my fat loss? I really wish I could run DNP, but as I'm allergic it's not worth the risk.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

A few shots I took on Monday


http://imgur.com/nkaTn3d


I guess some time in a tanning bed will help with the bacne scars?


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

rectus said:


> Thanks Would you change anything to increase my fat loss? I really wish I could run DNP, but as I'm allergic it's not worth the risk.


If it were me, I would go for a clean carb up, Friday to Sunday night. You have been on this diet for a while now and your body is going to try and hang on to its fat stores.

Trick it for the weekend. You will initially put weight on and sh1t br1ck with how much, but by the following wekend you will have dropped the weight and more.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dt36 said:


> If it were me, I would go for a clean carb up, Friday to Sunday night. You have been on this diet for a while now and your body is going to try and hang on to its fat stores.
> 
> Trick it for the weekend. You will initially put weight on and sh1t br1ck with how much, but by the following wekend you will have dropped the weight and more.


Friday to Sunday?!


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Yes, clean carbs. Like I said, you will sh1t a brick when you get on the scales Monday morning, but it will give your body a physical and mental break from the diet.

Then you get back on the diet, and your body doesn't know what has hit it. You will lose the temporary weight gain and more.

I hit a stall point for two weeks in the past when on a serious cut, and was told to do this by a Nabba Britain winner. I really didn't want to do it and actually carbed up dirty for a weekend on a Sun holiday. It definately worked without a shadow of a doubt, and my family were actually glad to see me give it a break too, as I was becoming a rite ratty cvnt from the diet.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

@dt36 - in essence you are describing a cyclical ketogenic diet which is what I also followed.

It worked well for me also, although looking back on things I feel that I screwed up a few things, especially towards the end when I was coming to the end of my tether mentally...

You need to be very careful on carb-up days following the low-carb days, because if you enter the carb-up day with the mentality that you need to eat loads then it becomes very easy to turn a carb-up day into a junk food fest which is about the last thing you want to do because all you do is undo your hard work from the previous days.

I love cyclical ketogenic diets, but they are mentally tough to do. If you can hack it mentally then I think that they can give excellent results.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> Thanks  I have another 2 months left and my Tren dosage will double for those last 2. I have to get the fat off my chest on this cycle, there is no way it's going to happen off-cycle so if that means I have to extend it, I will.
> 
> Would you change anything to increase my fat loss? I really wish I could run DNP, but as I'm allergic it's not worth the risk.


Well, if you're managing to lose fat at an appreciable rate then I personally wouldn't change too much.

I've always had doubts about two things with you though Rectus. Here goes:

1) I really don't understand how you end up losing strength whilst cutting but simultaneously running test/tren. I'm probably not the best person to explain it, but my initial thoughts would be that your gear perhaps isn't so great or else you're just running too low a dose.

2) I don't understand how you hit a wall in fat loss before at around the 20% mark, despite apparently being in a calorie defecit on a keto diet (and I think also being on T3 and perhaps also AAS). I would have thought that perhaps you were underestimating your calorie intake, but you seem pretty meticulous in all your stuff thus I'm going to exclude this hypothesis.

Do you do fasted cardio? Perhaps this could help you.

If you're just not getting the results you desire, would you consider getting a good coach like pscarb or somebody like that?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Well, if you're managing to lose fat at an appreciable rate then I personally wouldn't change too much.
> 
> I've always had doubts about two things with you though Rectus. Here goes:
> 
> ...


I don't think there's an issue with the quality of the Tren, I just get fatigued so much faster on certain exercises - the worst being the overhead press. It has been said before that I am doing too much in the gym whilst cutting in terms of resistance training. Cardio has stopped completely, I am worried I'll have a heart attack. I woke up this morning out of breath, couldn't even sing along to System of a Down in the shower because I was breathing so heavy. I still went to the gym though and I couldn't do much, I managed 15 total reps on the pull up, 10,10,10,7,7 incline DB bench, 10, 10, 7 DB bicep curl and then I had to leave - pathetic! I only added in the increased dose of Tren on Monday, it can't have made a difference that fast can it? Maybe it's just one of those days, we all have them for whatever reason.

Yeah I am definitely eating in a deficit, just worked out what I ate yesterday: 1,327 calories. That's too low. Didn't hit my protein goal of 151g, I was at 133g yesterday. I feel myself getting hungry, I just try to ignore it. How much do you reckon a dessert spoon of peanut butter would weigh?

A coach would be nice, but I have to prove to myself that I can do this. I'm trying to ignore the % my body fat analyser is giving me now, I'm going by the mirror and you did agree there was a noticeable change, but the numbers on the analyser don't change much and stay around the 18.7% mark.

That's a lot of waffling...


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Don't rely too much on those stupid electrical impedance bodyfat measuring devices.

They really are a load of bollox.

Calipers can be good, if you have a good operator who takes about 9 different measurement points.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

We're you running that same dose of T3 off cycle?

Muscle loss noticeable?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> We're you running that same dose of T3 off cycle?
> 
> Muscle loss noticeable?


No, I ran 25mcg probably towards the 3 month mark on keto as I was stalling, and the fact dieting will slow your thyroid down. I took 50mcg when running DNP, and now I'm on AAS I'm on 87.5mcg. I would never run higher than 25mcg T3 without AAS.

I'm not enjoying being this out of breath just sitting down, I am going to take my gym sessions down a notch. Good idea?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> No, I ran 25mcg probably towards the 3 month mark on keto as I was stalling, and the fact dieting will slow your thyroid down. I took 50mcg when running DNP, and now I'm on AAS I'm on 87.5mcg. I would never run higher than 25mcg T3 without AAS.
> 
> I'm not enjoying being this out of breath just sitting down, I am going to take my gym sessions down a notch. Good idea?


I think you should sort out whatever is getting you the shortness of breath, keep the workouts intense and get cardio back in.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I think you should sort out whatever is getting you the shortness of breath, keep the workouts intense and get cardio back in.


It'll be the Tren. I'm just going to have to bear with it for now as my body is shaping up and I don't want to ruin things.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

How's this going mate?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> How's this going mate?


Very well. Still no real side effects really apart from the shortness of breath and the high blood pressure (I haven't measured it, I'm just shaking a lot) which isn't a problem. I could still sell photos of my moobs to a fetish site unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any signs of them disappearing which is my only desire in life. Hope to have a good session at the gym tomorrow as I just my Sunday evening carb binge after which I normally fall asle


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## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)

rectus said:


> Very well. Still no real side effects really apart from the shortness of breath and the high blood pressure (I haven't measured it, I'm just shaking a lot) which isn't a problem. I could still sell photos of my moobs to a fetish site unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any signs of them disappearing which is my only desire in life. Hope to have a good session at the gym tomorrow as I just my Sunday evening carb binge after which I normally fall asle


Mate TBH i'd get yourself checked out - shaking a lot is not a sign of high BP (common signs are nosebleeds, bright red flushed face and pounding headaches)

And the shortness of breath you describe from such a low dose of tren doesn't sound right either. I'm on 600mg of tren and suffer with no SOB. The extreme shortness of breath you describe from 200mg of tren just doesn't sound right to me.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

NoGutsNoGlory said:


> Mate TBH i'd get yourself checked out - shaking a lot is not a sign of high BP (common signs are nosebleeds, bright red flushed face and pounding headaches)
> 
> And the shortness of breath you describe from such a low dose of tren doesn't sound right either. I'm on 600mg of tren and suffer with no SOB. The extreme shortness of breath you describe from 200mg of tren just doesn't sound right to me.


I'll be alright, I've got another 2 months, there's no way I'll die in that time. The shaking might be ECA but I thought the shakes was a sign of high BP. When I used to drink heavily my BP was high, I would be shaking all of the time - it was a right mission trying to get the fork into my mouth in the mornings. The shortness of breath isn't constant, seems to come and go but quite often. I guess this is what it must be like to be morbidly obese, being annoyed by your own heavy nasal breathing.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Very well. Still no real side effects really apart from the shortness of breath and the high blood pressure (I haven't measured it, I'm just shaking a lot) which isn't a problem. I could still sell photos of my moobs to a fetish site unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any signs of them disappearing which is my only desire in life. Hope to have a good session at the gym tomorrow as I just my Sunday evening carb binge after which I normally fall asle


I know how you feel about chest fat, I've had fatty tits for as long as my memory serves me right. It never seems to change much. Our goals are pretty similar just now, get cut for the first time ever.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I know how you feel about chest fat, I've had fatty tits for as long as my memory serves me right. It never seems to change much. Our goals are pretty similar just now, get cut for the first time ever.


What's your plan of attack?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> What's your plan of attack?


Test P

Tren A

Clen

T3

Perfect diet.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Test P
> 
> Tren A
> 
> ...


lolz and what's this perfect diet you've discovered?

Clen aye? Have you looked thoroughly into this compound? I decided it wasn't something I wanted to run.

So I'm assuming as it's short esters you'll be running a shorter cycle? I would have thought a long ester, long cycle would be more beneficial for your goals, but this is only based on assumptions as you haven't given me all the facts. Go into detail.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> lolz and what's this perfect diet you've discovered?
> 
> Clen aye? Have you looked thoroughly into this compound? I decided it wasn't something I wanted to run.
> 
> So I'm assuming as it's short esters you'll be running a shorter cycle? I would have thought a long ester, long cycle would be more beneficial for your goals, but this is only based on assumptions as you haven't given me all the facts. Go into detail.


Perhaps perfect diet Is an overstatement lol. I mean everything weighed and measured correctly. Simply calorie counted and cycled high,medium, low. It's working well. I'm down 7lbs since the 2nd Jan - without cardio or drugs. I've just started pinning this weekend.

It will be a shorter cycle but ill be seeing how it goes, pinning is no issue personally so I don't mind extending.

Really my plan is to loose another 2 stone and see what I look like at the end. I have a journal on here with pics etc if you want to take a look.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Perhaps perfect diet Is an overstatement lol. I mean everything weighed and measured correctly. Simply calorie counted and cycled high,medium, low. It's working well. I'm down 7lbs since the 2nd Jan - without cardio or drugs. I've just started pinning this weekend.
> 
> It will be a shorter cycle but ill be seeing how it goes, pinning is no issue personally so I don't mind extending.
> 
> Really my plan is to loose another 2 stone and see what I look like at the end. I have a journal on here with pics etc if you want to take a look.


A link would be handy...

Yeah I think it's wise to diet for a while naturally to see how you're responding, and then add in the drugs to take it even further. Wow so you're taking it the pro-level of dieting, nice. What I like about keto is I don't have to really weigh anything (I did at first to work out what size meat I should be eating) as I'm eating the same foods all the time.


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> A link would be handy...
> 
> Yeah I think it's wise to diet for a while naturally to see how you're responding, and then add in the drugs to take it even further. Wow so you're taking it the pro-level of dieting, nice. What I like about keto is I don't have to really weigh anything (I did at first to work out what size meat I should be eating) as I'm eating the same foods all the time.


I think if your eating the same foods day in and day out then you cold get away with not weighing, I'm quite anal so I just measure everything, because I'm not doing high fat / carbs etc it allows me to be a bit more flexible with eating as long as I know the calorie content.

I forgot to mention I'm also doing IF. I feels this helps keep structure on a cut.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Just made a shambles of my Test injection, I went all the way in but wasn't paying enough attention and the pin came halfway out so I'm left with a big lump. I can also taste a chemical taste in my mouth...


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

XRichHx said:


> I think if your eating the same foods day in and day out then you cold get away with not weighing, I'm quite anal so I just measure everything, because I'm not doing high fat / carbs etc it allows me to be a bit more flexible with eating as long as I know the calorie content.
> 
> I forgot to mention I'm also doing IF. I feels this helps keep structure on a cut.


Agree with this:- Weighing food is not too bad after a week or so. You sort of get used to the measures and roughly know what they should be. Marking your jugs and beakers etc also helps.



rectus said:


> Just made a shambles of my Test injection, I went all the way in but wasn't paying enough attention and the pin came halfway out so I'm left with a big lump. I can also taste a chemical taste in my mouth...


Probably knicked yourself and a little bit has gone in the blood. No biggy, but put a cold compress on the swelling just to bring it down. No heat whatsoever until the swelling has gone if there is some pain there. Should be fine though mate...


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

dt36 said:


> Probably knicked yourself and a little bit has gone in the blood. No biggy, but put a cold compress on the swelling just to bring it down. No heat whatsoever until the swelling has gone if there is some pain there. Should be fine though mate...


I put a hot bean bag on it...

My thigh hurts, feels quite stiff too and it's leg day tomorrow ha.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

OK, well it's done now, but get some cold on it tonight.

Sorry to sound like an old Nanna, but don't use heat for the initial treatment of a muscle injury. Might post this up now as a thread:

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Ice-and-Heat-Treatment-for-Injuries.htm


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Thank you. I have loads of those emergency ice packs that you burst to get a chemical reaction causing ice to form.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I was squatting today, the wound hurt! Feels really deep in the quad. I'm not bothered though, just I see people filling these logs with their every thought. I wonder if I'd look good in a dress?


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> I was squatting today, the wound hurt! Feels really deep in the quad. I'm not bothered though, just I see people filling these logs with their every thought.* I wonder if I'd look good in a dress?*


 :huh:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I sleep in shifts, around 4hrs at night, and 3-4rs in the afternoon. Lately I've not been able to sleep for very long in the afternoon, and in the mornings I feel so rubbish at work. I feel so drained it's like my eyes are sinking into my skull and people have commented on how sh!t I look, which is nice. The thing is, I have been considering switching to paleo/intermittent fasting but I think that's aimed at people who get around 8hrs solid sleep as that will cut your 16hr fasting window in half as you won't be feeling hunger with your head on the pillow.

*Update:* t!ts are still massive  wtf am I going to do.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

rectus said:


> No, I ran 25mcg probably towards the 3 month mark on keto as I was stalling, and the fact dieting will slow your thyroid down. I took 50mcg when running DNP, and now I'm on AAS I'm on 87.5mcg. I would never run higher than 25mcg T3 without AAS.
> 
> I'm not enjoying being this out of breath just sitting down, I am going to take my gym sessions down a notch. Good idea?


Im on 250 test, 250 tren, 500 EQ and also feeling slightly out of breath some times. Not quite as bad as yours sounds, it seems worse when I'm doing nothing, sat at my desk.

Not out of breath, just when I feel like taking a really deep breath, I cant quite fill my whole lungs up if you know what I mean, is that what yours is like?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Ben_Dover said:


> Im on 250 test, 250 tren, 500 EQ and also feeling slightly out of breath some times. Not quite as bad as yours sounds, it seems worse when I'm doing nothing, sat at my desk.
> 
> Not out of breath, just when I feel like taking a really deep breath, I cant quite fill my whole lungs up if you know what I mean, is that what yours is like?


Yep, exactly like that. It's not debilitating or anything, it's just not ideal - but I will put up with it (I'm on 400mg Tren now). Why did you decide on EQ? I think I'd like to run it for 16 weeks in the future just because of the garden hose vascularity effects I have seen people talk about.


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## Ben_Dover (Apr 12, 2012)

rectus said:


> Yep, exactly like that. It's not debilitating or anything, it's just not ideal - but I will put up with it (I'm on 400mg Tren now). Why did you decide on EQ? I think I'd like to run it for 16 weeks in the future just because of the garden hose vascularity effects I have seen people talk about.


Because my source cocked up (its the BSI equitrentest 1000mg/ml) and I asked for the trentest (BSI 250/250). I'll be upping the cardio before I go crazy with the dosage i think, the shortness of breath isn't nice.

3 weeks in though all seems worth it looking in the mirror, things starting to happen. Just have to man up and deal with it I suppose


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I was doing some bicep curls today in front of the mirror at the gym, I caught my back in the mirror and said "oh ****". I am very pleased with it! I put it down to focusing one of my upper days to perfect form pull ups. I can't do very many reps per set but I just try to increase the total volume per week. That and bent over rows of course.

Might sound a strange thing to say, but to me it looks like my body is more tanned than usual... I'm tanned anyway but as the sun has gone into hiding I normally grey out by this time of year.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Well my moobs just aren't disappearing. I thought by losing all of this fat I'd be able to fit into my old t-shirts but because my chest is so big they don't fit and it doesn't matter how flat my stomach is getting. So I have decided desperate times = desperate measures and I have purchased a topical fat burner with money I do not have on something that probably won't work. I won't start a separate log because at least in here I can keep my t!ts between e-friends.


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## AlwaysANewb (Dec 2, 2012)

Just keep going buddy, your body will go to desperate measures when it's out of fat elsewhere... those measures being your chest.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

AlwaysANewb said:


> Just keep going buddy, your body will go to desperate measures when it's out of fat elsewhere... those measures being your chest.


I really hope so. I seem to be at a standstill at the moment, I don't know if I'm going to see any improvements for the rest of the cycle. I'm starting a new diet tomorrow, something I've come up with myself by combining Lean Gains and Paleo. Hopefully this will take me to the next level.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Just put on some Eviscerate topical fat loss gel on my moobs. HEEEEYY YOOO! MY TITS IS ON FIRE!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update(1): *probably should have washed my hands more thoroughly... YEAAAH YOOOO! MY LIPS IS ON FIRE!


----------



## Craigyboy (Feb 9, 2012)

At least you won have fat lips!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I've got one last strip of T3 which should last a week or so, and then I'll stop that to let my thyroid get back online (less than a month) while I'm still on cycle. I don't know if that will help with rebound or not but I am afraid I am going to lose my abs and we've only spent a short time together.


----------



## don1 (Jul 9, 2009)

rectus said:


> I was doing some bicep curls today in front of the mirror at the gym, I caught my back in the mirror and said "oh ****". I am very pleased with it! I put it down to focusing one of my upper days to perfect form pull ups. I can't do very many reps per set but I just try to increase the total volume per week. That and bent over rows of course.
> 
> Might sound a strange thing to say, but to me it looks like my body is more tanned than usual... I'm tanned anyway but as the sun has gone into hiding I normally grey out by this time of year.


Your body is tanned ?? How long you been on tren ? Have your eyes gone off white ,


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

don1 said:


> Your body is tanned ?? How long you been on tren ? Have your eyes gone off white ,


I've been on Tren 10 weeks, taking it to 14 weeks. I don't know, I just think I look more darker. Could be just my imagination. My eyes are fine. I'm considering using a tanning salon *ahem* to even out my skin tone as my back is full of acne scars.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

This is what my chest felt like this morning after applying Eviscerate:






Imagine getting the roughest type of sandpaper, rubbing it over your chest, opening a packet of salt'n'shake crisps, removing the little blue sachet of salt, sprinking that on your chest, reaching over to your bottle of aftershave, plop it on your chest - that's what it feels like.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Week 11:* No further improvements visually. I'm going to have to face facts that my chest fat just isn't going to go on this cycle so post-cycle I guess I'm going to have to start to incorporate HIIT training. Any protocols you guys recommend? I guess I'm going to need to take this cutting to a pro-level because I think my body fat is going to have to be really low before my t!ts go - then there's the issue of trying to maintain that. I almost walked out the gym today as this and other things are all getting on top of me, but I stayed strong and finished my session *pats on back*

One thing I will miss post-cycle is the veins:


http://imgur.com/c7I9rkn


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

What is your %BF now mate?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> What is your %BF now mate?


Does it even matter? I don't weigh myself any more, or use my body fat analyser. What matters is what I see in the mirror. My last reading was 18.6 percent, and that was pre-cycle, now my stomach is almost flat, my abs are hard, visible in shadowed lighting. When I measured it again about mid-cycle and it read the same when I clearly have changed.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Well I took some measurements:

*Weight: *70.6kg - 67.9kg (I was 86kg at the beginning of my cut 6 months ago)

*Bodyfat: *18.8 or 16.8 - 17.8% or 16.1% (two different analysers)

*Bodywater:* 59.4 - 60.2

*Bodymuscle:*76.8 - 77.7

Figures from 11/01/13 in red

FML, so much further to go.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> Well I took some measurements:
> 
> *Weight: *70.6kg - 67.9kg (I was 86kg at the beginning of my cut 6 months ago)
> 
> ...


I don't exactly understand what the "Bodywater" and "Bodymuscle" measurements are. How can your current Bodymuscle be 77.7, whilst your weight is 67.9kg??

Sorry if I haven't understood properly mate!

A couple of other questions:

1) How tall are you?

2) What is the measurement of your waist, measured at the level of your belly button whilst relaxing, i.e. not trying to suck in your gut?

Cheers.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> I don't exactly understand what the "Bodywater" and "Bodymuscle" measurements are. How can your current Bodymuscle be 77.7, whilst your weight is 67.9kg??
> 
> Sorry if I haven't understood properly mate!
> 
> ...


I don't know about the water/muscle numbers, just copying it from my analyser. 170cm (5'7"). I'll measure it later, but my 'small' pants are now too big.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Stopped T3, thought it'd be to stop it whilst on cycle as it's going to take a month for it come back online and I'd rather have the support of AAS to keep regaining fat at bay. Been 'depressed' the past 3 days, find myself just wasting time lying down and thinking about personal stuff. Not had a fap in 4 days, and I typically fap 2x a day. Natural emotional issues exacerbated by Tren? I couldn't say.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Here's why I was asking your waist measurement mate..



From that you can get a pretty good estimate of your bodyfat %.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Weight: *67.9kg (149lbs)

*Waist:*76cm (30")

*Height:* 170cm (5'7')


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

76cm????

That's awesome mate!! Good on you!

According to that table that would put you at roughly 11% BF which is magnificent!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> 76cm????
> 
> That's awesome mate!! Good on you!
> 
> According to that table that would put you at roughly 11% BF which is magnificent!


Well I appreciate your interest but the thing is I am not 11%. The thing you have to consider here is that my body isn't normal, the fat distribution is not typical of a man - large fat deposits around the chest suggesting a hormonal imbalance in the teenage years of my life that has probably returned to normal, but left behind a terrible mess. I think this because I control my oestrogen levels on cycle and there has been no reduction in...well I might as well say it... breast size.

Fun fact: my waist was 87cm in May 2012.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *I had a fap today because I felt like it.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Update: Just did my second Tren injection for the week, decided to take it up from 400mg to 600mg per week this week. 200mg on Mon, 400mg today. Reason: I want to finish off the vial, plus I want to see what I can get away with. Should have enough Tren for next week at 200mg or 400mg (not sure how much is left) and then I'm off it. I'll still have Mast and Test in my system to reach the 16 week end date.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Monday's workout was ridiculous:

*Incline DB Bench:* 5/3/1

*OHP: *5x10

*Barbell row:* 5x10

*Pec fly: *5x10

*Bicep curl:* 5x10

*Seated row:* 5x10

*Pallof Press: *4x15 seconds

*Reverse curls:* 5x10

Too much volume! But I love it so much 

Here's a photo I took today of my shoulders, they are looking better I think:


http://imgur.com/sRR7by0


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Oh and I actually received a 'neg' for being on Tren too long... my last jab of week 12 will be on Thurs. A couple of people have commented on my arms and the veins but I guess it's goodbye veins now  I'm not fapping as much as normal, hopefully it's not to do with the drugs I'm running but more the fact I am pre-occupied with trying to date a real grown up woman. You have to work to earn the right!


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Oh and I actually received a 'neg' for being on Tren too long... my last jab of week 12 will be on Thurs. A couple of people have commented on my arms and the veins but I guess it's goodbye veins now  I'm not fapping as much as normal, hopefully it's not to do with the drugs I'm running but more the fact I am pre-occupied with trying to date a real grown up woman. You have to work to earn the right!


I was just going to say there some decent veinage.

I can't believe someone negged you. Bit sad.

Plenty of fish? Be somewhere nice to park in the short term&#8230;


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I was just going to say there some decent veinage.
> 
> I can't believe someone negged you. Bit sad.
> 
> Plenty of fish? Be somewhere nice to park in the short term&#8230;


Cheers  I'm on POF but I've had no luck, plus the girls on there aren't my type. If you want high calibre you have to put the work in it seems so I am trying to sort my life out so I can have a relationship with this woman. I'm working my charms but you've got to be able to back it up. She's basically "out of my league" but I'm trying to destroy that myth and be that guy where people say "what's she doing with him?" hahaha


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Cheers  I'm on POF but I've had no luck, plus the girls on there aren't my type. If you want high calibre you have to put the work in it seems so I am trying to sort my life out so I can have a relationship with this woman. I'm working my charms but you've got to be able to back it up. She's basically "out of my league" but I'm trying to destroy that myth and be that guy where people say "what's she doing with him?" hahaha


There's plenty of hummers on pof, there's a girl at my work that's on there but she is actually not bad, last time I slept with her we had a good laugh at other men's expense on the mobile app lol.

I feel the best way is to project confidence, got me plenty of ass.

Here's my bird, she's def out of my league but that means fck all when you just project confidence.








http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/]


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> There's plenty of hummers on pof, there's a girl at my work that's on there but she is actually not bad, last time I slept with her we had a good laugh at other men's expense on the mobile app lol.
> 
> I feel the best way is to project confidence, got me plenty of ass.
> 
> Here's my bird, she's def out of my league but that means fck all when you just project confidence.


Don't sell yourself short mate, you two look good together. On another note I somehow managed to get this woman to go out on a date with me! Insane. Now to f*ck it up.... any ideas what I can do? Just a pub? Is that ok for a woman of sophistication?


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Don't sell yourself short mate, you two look good together. On another note I somehow managed to get this woman to go out on a date with me! Insane. Now to f*ck it up.... any ideas what I can do? Just a pub? Is that ok for a woman of sophistication?


Thanks your too kind.

I would keep it simple, a nice Italian somewhere near a bar, food then a few drinks, can't go wrong really with that.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> Don't sell yourself short mate, you two look good together. On another note I somehow managed to get this woman to go out on a date with me! Insane. Now to f*ck it up.... any ideas what I can do? Just a pub? Is that ok for a woman of sophistication?


Good on you mate!

I agree - the best thing to do is to take her to a nice restaurant. Not an Indian or Chinese restaurant, but something more chic to make a good first impression on her.

In my opinion the cinema is never an ideal first date because (obviously) you don't get to talk in a cinema. Pub isn't ideal either because if you get blaggered then you'll just end up making a bad impression.

Be a good listener and don't try to shag her on first date.


----------



## WrightStar (Nov 20, 2012)

rectus said:


> This is what my chest felt like this morning after applying Eviscerate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I genuinely just went to extreme depths to mentally envision that analogy. Fcuk me, it was painful!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Good on you mate!
> 
> I agree - the best thing to do is to take her to a nice restaurant. Not an Indian or Chinese restaurant, but something more chic to make a good first impression on her.
> 
> ...


haha cheers  Well as I don't drink anymore so getting plastered won't be a problem, I may have a brandy to take the edge off though so I think a pub would be a relaxed and comfortable environment. The thing with eating is that I can't eat anything (intollerant to almost everything and I follow keto/IF) and when I do eat, it takes my complete attention. Agreed on the cinema, if you're going with a girl you're just trying to shag then it makes sense as conversation is not important but if you're after some substance then talking is the number one in the agenda. I'm not going to try and sex her, my sex drive has dropped! Still waking up with morning glory but don't want to do anything with it. Last Tren jab today so hopefully when that's gone in 2 weeks it'll come back up? Or is that something I should expect post-cycle during PCT as I am running Test/Mast for the remainder of the 16week cycle?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

WrightStar said:


> I genuinely just went to extreme depths to mentally envision that analogy. Fcuk me, it was painful!


I don't even notice it anymore, can't even smell it now.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> haha cheers  Well as I don't drink anymore so getting plastered won't be a problem, I may have a brandy to take the edge off though so I think a pub would be a relaxed and comfortable environment. The thing with eating is that I can't eat anything (intollerant to almost everything and I follow keto/IF) and when I do eat, it takes my complete attention. Agreed on the cinema, if you're going with a girl you're just trying to shag then it makes sense as conversation is not important but if you're after some substance then talking is the number one in the agenda. I'm not going to try and sex her, my sex drive has dropped! Still waking up with morning glory but don't want to do anything with it. Last Tren jab today so hopefully when that's gone in 2 weeks it'll come back up? Or is that something I should expect post-cycle during PCT as I am running Test/Mast for the remainder of the 16week cycle?


Sorry mate, but I'm no expert on AAS. You'd better ask somebody else.

However regarding girls and dating I'm a bit more proficient.:laugh:

The last time I had a first date in cinema was a truly horrific experience. She was really hot and really into the cinema, and me being the gentleman that I am I let her choose the film. She chose Schindler's List and spent the entire 3 hours or so of the film crying her eyes out. Needless to say I didn't get my leg over that evening. Next date was back at the cinema - this time to watch Philadelphia. :death:


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Latest photos:


http://imgur.com/HALXx5B


I'm getting happier.


----------



## Dusky (Sep 4, 2011)

rectus said:


> Latest photos:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/HALXx5B
> ...


You should. Looking good buddy.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

You're looking in really good shape, massive improvement as compared to where you used to be.

But anyway, we don't really give a toss about photos of you - can't you upload a few of your sophisticated lady friend? 

When's the hot date?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> You're looking in really good shape, massive improvement as compared to where you used to be.
> 
> But anyway, we don't really give a toss about photos of you - can't you upload a few of your sophisticated lady friend?
> 
> When's the hot date?


Ha! Thanks for the kind words. I contacted a tanning salon to get some info on my bacne but they never got back to me. Never been to one, the idea is ludicrous as you can see I'm already naturally tanned, but it might make my back look better. I'm not going to post up any photos of her, but I'll say she does remind me of Lucy Liu yet she's not oriental. Freckles, amazing smile, brunette, into fitness (she squats!) and loves some of the bands I do (a rare occurrence). My only concern is that she's a woman, and I'm a boy really. Sunday afternoon (after a potentially heavy Sat night with friends) in a nice pub, assuming I can find one in my sh!tty city.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Latest photos:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/HALXx5B
> ...


Wow that's some improvement mate!

You look like you have excellent definition in your. Pecs I know you have said there's still fatty but I wouldn't say they look bad at all from the pics, I would definitely have your condition over

Mine!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Wow that's some improvement mate!
> 
> You look like you have excellent definition in your. Pecs I know you have said there's still fatty but I wouldn't say they look bad at all from the pics, I would definitely have your condition over
> 
> Mine!


Thanks  My chest workout comprises of:

Mon - Incline Bench 5/3/1 (30kg dumbbells), pec fly 5x10 (7kg dumbbells)

Thu - Incline Bench 5x10 (20kg dumbbells)

I feel every rep, they're deep and super controlled.

It's actually just good lighting, when there's a shadow you can see the true extent of my man boob horror. My mother just told me my belly looks like "one of those anorexics" hahaha

I did achieve something today I have been trying to do for some time: the mind-muscle connection of the lattisimus dorsi  it was a good feeling to have finally cracked it!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

@lewishart I wonder if you can provide some input?

My last jab of Tren was yesterday (thurs) and I believe it's 2 weeks before it leaves my system. Do you think my libido will go back to normal once it's out of my system? I now see why people run it for 10 weeks... week 11 is when I started to notice issues.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Update: Just had my date, it was f*ckin brilliant. I performed amazingly. She is fit as f*ck but I didn't feel sexually excited... ffs Tren you bastard! I haven't fapped for ages now


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Update: Just had my date, it was f*ckin brilliant. I performed amazingly. She is fit as f*ck but I didn't feel sexually excited... ffs Tren you bastard! I haven't fapped for ages now


What's causing the issues with the tren?

I've done but masterbate since I started on it.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> What's causing the issues with the tren?
> 
> I've done but masterbate since I started on it.


I'm guessing it's the Tren, never had libido issues before. I thought it normally makes guys rapey but it's had the opposite effect on me. Could very well be Mast I guess as that's something I've not run before this cycle. So from fapping twice daily to 0 faps in... it's probably been a week is a bit of a cause for concern.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> I'm guessing it's the Tren, never had libido issues before. I thought it normally makes guys rapey but it's had the opposite effect on me. Could very well be Mast I guess as that's something I've not run before this cycle. So from fapping twice daily to 0 faps in... it's probably been a week is a bit of a cause for concern.


Have you dropped the mast?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Have you dropped the mast?


Keeping it in till the end. Tbh I haven't actually looked at when I should stop Mast, just been freestylin' it haha


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I have decided to cut my cycle short by 2 weeks. I don't think it's worth running it for the full 16, I've done all I can do I think. I've taken the Mast E up from 200mg to 400mg for the remainder just because I have lots left... a great reason to increase dosage ¬_¬ This will mean I'll take my ADEX down to 0.5mg E3D's until I start to feel the tingles.

Calories today: 1000. Reason: having some digestive issues and I'm trying to find the culprit so I'm removing foods. You know, 1000 cals isn't as painful as it sounds because I'm doing IF so you get over hunger pain more easily. I don't know if I can go this low without Test E though.

Not looking forward to coming off just because I know the bacne starts when I'm doing PCT. Black t-shirts only!


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

How much size and strength do you normally lose let's say 3-4 months post-cycle?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> How much size and strength do you normally lose let's say 3-4 months post-cycle?


None that I have noticed. I kept the weight from my first 'Var cycle. After my first Test cycle I cut so I couldn't say but hopefully I should keep lean post cycle.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Last pin of Test E and Mast E (emptied the vial!) today. Start PCT in two weeks - Nolva/Clomid combo. Really want my libido to return now! I was never really bothered before but now my only role is to sexually please a woman and if I can't do that then she's going to kick me to the curb. Running Cialis was great for keeping myself solid but it just didn't enjoy it much as I should have and I didn't 'finish' so I don't really want to run it again as she'll ask questions...


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update: *Last pin of Test E and Mast E (emptied the vial!) today. Start PCT in two weeks - Nolva/Clomid combo. Really want my libido to return now! I was never really bothered before but now my only role is to sexually please a woman and if I can't do that then she's going to kick me to the curb. Running Cialis was great for keeping myself solid but it just didn't enjoy it much as I should have and I didn't 'finish' so I don't really want to run it again as she'll ask questions...


So would you run the tren again?

Have you considered prolactin may be the issue as opposed to estrogen?

Right now I actually can't stop shaggin, my gf came Back on Friday night and she's pretty much lay on the bed most of the weekend lol.

I love tren, looking forward to trying Deca after @Fatstuff says I "turned me into a rapist"


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> So would you run the tren again?
> 
> Have you considered prolactin may be the issue as opposed to estrogen?
> 
> ...


I would run Tren again definitely but for 9 weeks, 10 at most. Deca is also another consideration but I think I've found 'my' cycle: Test/Tren/Mast. No major sides apart from the heavy breathing and libido drop towards the end. I don't know enough about prolactin to come to a conclusion.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Do you not like oral AAS?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Do you not like oral AAS?


They're ok but I have to take high doses because they are all so underdosed these days which means it's expensive, and I am always thinking about my liver while on. I know they're not all that liver toxic, but they are still toxic so I worry. With injectables you just don't get that risk and the results I get are superior I think, although it's not a valid experiment because when I first started I didn't really know what I was doing even though I thought I did. Plus with the longer half life due to the ester you don't have to worry about taking the right amount of pills everyday when you can just pin once/twice per week.

I've run (in order):

*Turinabol -* Nice oral, if I were to run an oral again this would be the one I'd choose though my skin got quite greasy on this.

*HGH -* In a feeble attempt to heal a damaged ligament.

*Anavar -* Loved this one, put on 5kg of muscle but it was just too expensive and wasn't convinced it was 100% anavar but a blend of Winstrol/Anavar

*Test E -* Got fat! Too many calories, convinced myself the Test would cancel it out.

*Test/Tren/Mast* - Got lean! Best cycle I've ran and will do it again with some little changes.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Not fancying Dbol?

If you look hard enough there's a website that sells blue hearts. I know someone who has used and said they were excellent.

Ill be using these in August / Sep with Deca and Test.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Not fancying Dbol?
> 
> If you look hard enough there's a website that sells blue hearts. I know someone who has used and said they were excellent.
> 
> Ill be using these in August / Sep with Deca and Test.


Never fancied DBOL. Always associated it with the bicep boys so it put me off, plus the water retention doesn't sound too great. I haven't ruled it out completely, maybe when I get lean enough I can consider it again for a bulk but I don't want to try every single compound that exists because one might trigger a big side effect and I have been very lucky so far. Genuine blue hearts are hard to find! Congratulations!


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Never fancied DBOL. Always associated it with the bicep boys so it put me off, plus the water retention doesn't sound too great. I haven't ruled it out completely, maybe when I get lean enough I can consider it again for a bulk but I don't want to try every single compound that exists because one might trigger a big side effect and I have been very lucky so far. Genuine blue hearts are hard to find! Congratulations!


Lean enough? You look pretty lean in your pictures mate, how much leaner do you want to go? What you going to be doing to get leaner?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Lean enough? You look pretty lean in your pictures mate, how much leaner do you want to go? What you going to be doing to get leaner?


Thanks. Lean enough that my chest fat goes. Cardio I guess *cries* I 'kin hate it! Started Spin class again and I'll have to add in cardio at the end of my weight training. My thyroid should be back online now... but I am so cold ALL the time! So I don't think it's back online yet, or there are some other factors at play.

Went to a birthday party on Sat night and had cups of coffee... and took a protein shake with me. I got accused of having an eating disorder...


----------



## AshleyW (Feb 28, 2013)

anabolik said:


> Personally I think 350mg pw is too high a dose to be starting tren if you've never ran it before. 250mg is a good starting point.
> 
> Even on 250mg pw I had insomnia, insanely greasy face and extremely short fuse. Strength went up every single workout and all i could think about was training and shagging, I mean literally that's all i though about all day at work :/


hahahahahahaha this is me right now pinning 1ml of tren ace EOD greasy ass face insomnia badly and shagging like im getting paid for it looool

might try ethanate next course as it seems to be steadier with less visual sides


----------



## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

its your body and choice but if you needed these compounds at those doses to get in to that shape i'm slightly worried


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> its your body and choice but if you needed these compounds at those doses to get in to that shape i'm slightly worried


Do you ever say anything constructive?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> its your body and choice but if you needed these compounds at those doses to get in to that shape i'm slightly worried


Is this aimed at me or the post above?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* My hunger levels are through the roof! Intermittent Fasting has never been so difficult the past couple of days that I think I'm going to crack! When I eat I'm not usually hungry for aaaages after so I'm not sure what's going on. It'll be 2 weeks tomorrow since my last jab of Tren so maybe that's something to do with it. It acted like an appetite suppressor, yet others claim it makes them ravenous. This is not good.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update:* My hunger levels are through the roof! Intermittent Fasting has never been so difficult the past couple of days that I think I'm going to crack! When I eat I'm not usually hungry for aaaages after so I'm not sure what's going on. It'll be 2 weeks tomorrow since my last jab of Tren so maybe that's something to do with it. It acted like an appetite suppressor, yet others claim it makes them ravenous. This is not good.


I keep up to date with c.hills journal, he has also started pct and says he's hungry as ****!

I have to admit, sometime I don't even notice hunger pans.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I keep up to date with c.hills journal, he has also started pct and says he's hungry as ****!
> 
> I have to admit, sometime I don't even notice hunger pans.


Not started PCT yet, got another 2 weeks till then. I really cannot afford to get hungrier than I am now. Going to get some Yohimbine HCL to run during PCT to help keep the fat at bay.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

and that will a combo of Tamoxifen/Clomid for 4 weeks. Double dose on the first day.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Dear diary,

I cracked for the first time ever last night. I woke with so much guilt! I'm doing Intermittent Fasting and my cut off point is 21:00. Got home at 23:30 after seeing my lady friend and downed a protein shake, 2 spoons of peanut butter and... a mini wagon wheel my sister left on the side. I suppose I could have eaten the whole pack, but I had one so that's something positive. Today I'm eating at 17:00 so it should even out and undo my sin. At what point does this become an eating disorder haha?

I feel like I'm putting on body fat but maybe I'm paranoid, can't be bothered with measuring myself again as it's too depressing. I think my skin is looking slightly darker from 2 sessions at 8 mins, once a week in a UV bed. I'll go again next week, costs £4.80 which isn't bad.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Today's photos, before (left) and after (right):


http://imgur.com/xY37egJ


I think my lats are looking so much better when you compare the first two photos.

Can you see the tan in the second photo? I always feel like I'm getting fatter but the photos show differently so it helps to see myself and realise most of it is in my mind. I do think the chest is getting fat again though.

My understanding is Tren takes 2 weeks to leave your body, and that 2 weeks was last Thurs so I guess I'm paranoid I'm going to back to where I started. Still another week till I start PCT so I still could go back to what I was  Time will tell.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Today's photos, before (left) and after (right):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/xY37egJ
> ...


Looking good mate. I think your being paranoid, keep the diet in good order and you should be fine.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Today's photos, before (left) and after (right):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/xY37egJ
> ...


Meant to say as well mate that your pictures don't show any of the chest fat you talk about, I think you are a bit paranoid, your decent, good tan as well. You obviously have good cheat development.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Meant to say as well mate that your pictures don't show any of the chest fat you talk about, I think you are a bit paranoid, your decent, good tan as well. You obviously have good cheat development.


Hmmm you're not the first to say I'm paranoid but the trouble is when I put a t-shirt on my chest is really big and they look like t!ts. Plus I can grab a handful of flesh on my chest. Thanks though.

*Update: *Just had a fap to see if it still worked (still no drive though) and having a store of about 2 weeks rendered a pr0n star load that even Peter North would be impressed with haha


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Started PCT today - 100mg Clomid, 40mg Nolva. Will be dropped down to 50mg/20mg tomorrow. Should be having sex tonight so it had better get working fast!


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Is this girl your new girlfriend or is it just a strictly sex-only thing?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Is this girl your new girlfriend or is it just a strictly sex-only thing?


She just wants me for my bloated carcass, apparently. I want more (the situation is backwards) but she likes her life the way it is and doesn't want it to change - apart from the addition of dick. I have hope it'll evolve but for the moment I'm just trying to enjoy the ride and not think too much.

Won't be using Cialis tonight, I need to prove to myself I can fully function without aids.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

Just read beginning to end. Some amazing posts by ausbuilt in the first few pages.

Quality transformation too, well done mate!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Just read beginning to end. Some amazing posts by ausbuilt in the first few pages.
> 
> Quality transformation too, well done mate!


Blimey, thanks for taking the time. Yeah I learned a lot in this thread and hope others do too. Thank you for the compliment. I have been told "now I look like I lift"


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

rectus said:


> Blimey, thanks for taking the time. Yeah I learned a lot in this thread and hope others do too. Thank you for the compliment. I have been told "now I look like I lift"


Yeah it took a while but I have today off work and I really have nothing better to do :lol:

I've actually learnt quite a bit just by reading this thread. I'm looking at starting a one rip cycle in August and I'm just doing some reading up on tren and mast. I just need to trawl through the forum to find more relevant journals, or just find more of Ausbuilt's posts


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Maybe it's a placebo but I really have the urge to fap right now! This is great news, I was very worried. Going to save it though.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* So I spent most of the afternoon having sex (12:00-14:00) and I could not 'finish'. I would say the majority of that time I remained rigid so that's working with no problems, it's the finishing part I can't do! I did it *without* Cialis as I wanted to prove to myself that I could, and I could, but not to the finish line. SHHHHIIIIIIIITTTTT!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Help?

Can somebody offer me a scientific reason as to why this is occurring? @hackskii


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Maybe is mental issue rather than the gear issue.

Your with a new girl, you want to please her sexually, so your giving yourself undue pressure to perform causing you to not be able to ejaculate.

I had the same problem a few years ago except I kept loosing my erection, ate me up mentally, even came back when I decided I wanted to sleep with someone from work, I kept thinking about the night I lost my erection, I had to stop numerous times as I couldn't shake the mental stress.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Maybe is mental issue rather than the gear issue.
> 
> Your with a new girl, you want to please her sexually, so your giving yourself undue pressure to perform causing you to not be able to ejaculate.
> 
> I had the same problem a few years ago except I kept loosing my erection, ate me up mentally, even came back when I decided I wanted to sleep with someone from work, I kept thinking about the night I lost my erection, I had to stop numerous times as I couldn't shake the mental stress.


Oh I've been there too! It can just happen the once and it can mess you up forever. I honestly thought that would be my issue today, but I was stronger than ever - she is sexy as f*ck which helps. I don't think it's a mental issue just because I haven't been fapping at home, and that's something I used to do twice daily before my cycle messed things up for me. I suppose on the plus side she's still enjoying herself, and she probably doesn't need me to finish to do that. 2nd time it's happened though... a 3rd time is going to take some explaining.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Week 2 of PCT and I've had 2 days of feeling very low. Life is good now so I shouldn't be feeling like this. I hope this passes soon.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I've had a look at some forums on "PCT Depression" and a lot of people blame the Clomid. When they take it out their mood improves (according to some). I'm going to keep it in for now, it's the smart thing to do I think. Taking it out probably wouldn't even improve my mood because my hormones are all out of whack - this is what I need to remember, it's not me, it's the hormones!


----------



## MA1984 (Jul 5, 2012)

rectus said:


> I've had a look at some forums on "PCT Depression" and a lot of people blame the Clomid. When they take it out their mood improves (according to some). I'm going to keep it in for now, it's the smart thing to do I think. Taking it out probably wouldn't even improve my mood because my hormones are all out of whack - this is what I need to remember, it's not me, it's the hormones!


Just blame depression on the hormones. LOL


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

I'll keep the Clomid at 50mg ED till the end of PCT unless I keep feeling like this. If that's the case, because of Clomid's long half life I can take it EOD which may see some improvements in mood.


----------



## achilles88 (Aug 27, 2010)

im not too sure mate but ive read in a few threads on here by the more experienced lads saying that the depressive low feeling is due to low androgens when you come off and nothing to do with the clomid


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

achilles88 said:


> im not too sure mate but ive read in a few threads on here by the more experienced lads saying that the depressive low feeling is due to low androgens when you come off and nothing to do with the clomid


Yeah that is the major factor for sure, no arguments there - it just makes logical sense. It's just that Clomid may exacerbate the problem in terms of mood.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Is your strength still the same or has it dipped yet?


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

get some DAA/ZMA in you 6g a day and keep the clomid at 100mg ed for 2 weeks at least?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Is your strength still the same or has it dipped yet?


Still been beating my PB's most weeks. I'll find out tomorrow as I feel now the Test and Mast has dropped due to my voice not been as deep (my only indicator).



Sambuca said:


> get some DAA/ZMA in you 6g a day and keep the clomid at 100mg ed for 2 weeks at least?


Got some more Clomid today, do I need such a dose? I kept my balls alive with HCG during cycle so I just assumed they would need less stimulation. Might try one day 100mg, next day 50mg if this doesn't go well but I'm feeling confident about things. We'll see long that lasts 

I'm not sure about DAA, it works for increasing Test quite dramatically for an over-the-counter supplement and I want to keep things as natural as I can right now and hope my body does what it needs to do. I've started supplementing with Vitamin D3 (5000iu) to increase my Test slightly.


----------



## Sambuca (Jul 25, 2012)

smash the daa down ya neck worked great for me +_+ not diff from taking vitamin d3 lol


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update:* Week 2 of PCT and I've had 2 days of feeling very low. Life is good now so I shouldn't be feeling like this. I hope this passes soon.


Which AI are you taking? That may be the culprit...


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Which AI are you taking? That may be the culprit...


Not taking any A.I's now, I'm on two SERM's: Clomid (50mg) and Nolva (20mg).


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Not taking any A.I's now, I'm on two SERM's: Clomid (50mg) and Nolva (20mg).


There it is. I'd swap it with Aromasin.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Received my Yohimbine HCL (Primaforce). I need about 5 tablets per day based on 0.2mg/kg = 12.5mg but I'll work my way up to that. I'll be doing 3x HIIT training sessions per week, hopefully that'll work...


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Received my Yohimbine HCL (Primaforce). I need about 5 tablets per day based on 0.2mg/kg = 12.5mg but I'll work my way up to that. I'll be doing 3x HIIT training sessions per week, hopefully that'll work...


Swap nolva with aromasin. Trust me.


----------



## Eryximachus (Feb 26, 2013)

rectus said:


> *Update:* Week 2 of PCT and I've had 2 days of feeling very low. Life is good now so I shouldn't be feeling like this. I hope this passes soon.


I'm in the same boat brother - very depressed in week 2 of PCT. Hang in there. Stay determined to do things right this time. Get labs done when you're done with PCT, then at least 6 weeks following and ideally another 6 weeks after that.

I'm getting through the depression by swearing to myself I'm not going to be an idiot with gear in the future, i.e. no tren, faithfully doing time on + pct = time off, always getting labs and what not.

There are a number of short acting antidepressant drugs that can help and provide immediate benefit. 5htp is easily accessible. Even benadryl can help. Cheap drugs you can get overseas from ADC and what not include selegiline and lithium.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Eryximachus said:


> I'm in the same boat brother - very depressed in week 2 of PCT. Hang in there. Stay determined to do things right this time. Get labs done when you're done with PCT, then at least 6 weeks following and ideally another 6 weeks after that.
> 
> I'm getting through the depression by swearing to myself I'm not going to be an idiot with gear in the future, i.e. no tren, faithfully doing time on + pct = time off, always getting labs and what not.
> 
> There are a number of short acting antidepressant drugs that can help and provide immediate benefit. 5htp is easily accessible. Even benadryl can help. Cheap drugs you can get overseas from ADC and what not include selegiline and lithium.


When is it going to get better?! I'm ridiculously paranoid about this girl that I'm seeing, no self worth and feel dead inside hahaha. F*ck sake. Do you find it comes in waves throughout the day?

I was going to run the same stack I ran for my cut, for a future bulk but now I'm thinking that if I do that then I've got all of this to look forward to... may just go back to Test only.

I'm not going to add in any other drugs, but I appreciate the thought.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Worst.workout.ever. I did pull ups and didn't beat my PB, then thought f*ck it and left. This has never happened before!


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I don't want to ask unpleasant questions, but did you have self-confidence or paranoia issues before using AAS?

Please don't feel obliged to reply if you prefer not to.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> I don't want to ask unpleasant questions, but did you have self-confidence or paranoia issues before using AAS?
> 
> Please don't feel obliged to reply if you prefer not to.


Not really. I get a bit jealous sometimes in relationships but my confidence is pretty good, though deep down there is a little insecurity still lingering. PCT seems to have brought that to the surface and now I'm drowning!


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Has the situation changed with this girl you're seeing, i.e. is she warming to the idea of some form of relationship? Or is it still sex with no strings attached?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Has the situation changed with this girl you're seeing, i.e. is she warming to the idea of some form of relationship? Or is it still sex with no strings attached?


Same situation, sex with no strings. I was actually getting used to the idea but this week I'm feeling a bit... needy. I don't get to see her much and I've started to think too much about what she may be up to with other guys... paranoid! So this is what it feels like to be a woman? I'm looking forward to becoming a man again haha.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *First the positives - my bacne is looking a lot better than it was (still disgusting though!) which is down to the following:


UV tan

Benzoyl Peroxide wash

Pantothenic Acid (3g)

Quinoderm 5% (just started using this)


On to the negatives - still getting waves of depression and I just lay on the sofa last night watching sh!te on the T.V. when I wouldn't normally do that as I have lots of coursework to do! I don't like these emotions! Test only cycles from now on.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update: *First the positives - my bacne is looking a lot better than it was (still disgusting though!) which is down to the following:
> 
> 
> UV tan
> ...


That vitamin A has dried my back out well. No fresh spots, just dead and healing spots.

Sorry to read about the depression, Test is like vanilla ice cream, you know what your getting and still tastes lovely.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> That vitamin A has dried my back out well. No fresh spots, just dead and healing spots.
> 
> Sorry to read about the depression, Test is like vanilla ice cream, you know what your getting and still tastes lovely.


ha yeah, true. Though please leave out your food analogies during my fasting please.

I forgot about the Vitamin A! So many 'kin supplements


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Took this photo last night (hence the grain):


http://imgur.com/l5fu8pg


This is first time I've ever said "I look lean!"


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Took this photo last night (hence the grain):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/l5fu8pg
> ...


You do look lean there mate. Cut has went well.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

More before and afters (these are fun!):


----------



## Eryximachus (Feb 26, 2013)

I dunno Rectus.

You sound like you won't fall back on the tren train like I've done. The sh1t works.

But you look like you could have benefited from serious cardio and lower weight/higher rep workouts.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Eryximachus said:


> I dunno Rectus.
> 
> You sound like you won't fall back on the tren train like I've done. The sh1t works.
> 
> But you look like you could have benefited from serious cardio and lower weight/higher rep workouts.


It does certainly work but the depression has been too much that I don't want to go through it again, never had this issue with Test only, plus my libido has gone. Well I did it all with diet and I did train high volume with low weight: 5x10

The stage I'm on now is HIIT. Hopefully that'll get me that bit leaner so I can finally start lean bulking.


----------



## Eryximachus (Feb 26, 2013)

rectus said:


> It does certainly work but the depression has been too much that I don't want to go through it again, never had this issue with Test only, plus my libido has gone. Well I did it all with diet and I did train high volume with low weight: 5x10
> 
> The stage I'm on now is HIIT. Hopefully that'll get me that bit leaner so I can finally start lean bulking.


Do the power pct and get some caber.

Do keep us informed about your libido.

Good luck!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Can I get a body fat estimate from my photo on the previous page guys?

*Update:* Week 3 of PCT. Depression is less severe but I still get it in waves, it's just not as bad thank god. Looking forward to getting my DAA through the post and feeling good about myself again. Still very vascular on my arms, I actually disgusted my mother the other day when she saw them for the first time, which was satisfying  I love what I see in the mirror


----------



## Pandy (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm no good at guessing fat percentage! Get yourself a set of calipers - they're only cheap.

But good work! What size waist did you start and finish at?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update*: Not feeling depressed, but still not feeling 100% myself - may be due to women troubles, or just my hormonal environment right now. Still can't jizz... The thing is, I gave up porn recently and I was reading on a website "Yourbrainonporn" that after you quit you don't fap as much, or have the desire too. It's called a "reboot" to cleanse your mind of all filth. Maybe it's that? I hope so.

Started on the DAA (3mg) and I'm going to run it for 12 days alongside the Clomid and Nolva.

I was going to wait after PCT to start Yohimbine but I want to lose body fat for the summer as I've never had the courage to go swimming or take my top off in public, maybe this year I will


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update*: Not feeling depressed, but still not feeling 100% myself - may be due to women troubles, or just my hormonal environment right now. Still can't jizz... The thing is, I gave up porn recently and I was reading on a website "Yourbrainonporn" that after you quit you don't fap as much, or have the desire too. It's called a "reboot" to cleanse your mind of all filth. Maybe it's that? I hope so.
> 
> Started on the DAA (3mg) and I'm going to run it for 12 days alongside the Clomid and Nolva.
> 
> I was going to wait after PCT to start Yohimbine but I want to lose body fat for the summer as I've never had the courage to go swimming or take my top off in public, maybe this year I will


Honestly I think your still mulling over everything too much, you won't feel yourself because your thinking that your not yourself.

I reckon you should take a week off, do nothing and chill out. It helps the mind and body.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Honestly I think your still mulling over everything too much, you won't feel yourself because your thinking that your not yourself.
> 
> I reckon you should take a week off, do nothing and chill out. It helps the mind and body.


I have next week off work! You're probably right, cheers.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update*: Not feeling depressed, but still not feeling 100% myself - may be due to women troubles, or just my hormonal environment right now. Still can't jizz... The thing is, I gave up porn recently and I was reading on a website "Yourbrainonporn" that after you quit you don't fap as much, or have the desire too. It's called a "reboot" to cleanse your mind of all filth. Maybe it's that? I hope so.
> 
> Started on the DAA (3mg) and I'm going to run it for 12 days alongside the Clomid and Nolva.
> 
> I was going to wait after PCT to start Yohimbine but I want to lose body fat for the summer as I've never had the courage to go swimming or take my top off in public, maybe this year I will


Well, this happens a lot to people who just came off AAS. The thing is not that you are not horny anymore now, the thing is that when on AAS you're horny like a dog with 2 c0cks on heat! So the difference is massive, and if you don't realise you are going back to normal, then psychological factors kick in and you get less and less able to j1zz.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Well, this happens a lot to people who just came off AAS. The thing is not that you are not horny anymore now, the thing is that when on AAS you're horny like a dog with 2 c0cks on heat! So the difference is massive, and if you don't realise you are going back to normal, then psychological factors kick in and you get less and less able to j1zz.


I never feel more aroused on cycle, I've always been a massive w4nker but I think it may have been through habit, rather than need. If that's the case, quitting porn would take away the habit and it's just time that will tell me when I need.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> I never feel more aroused on cycle, I've always been a massive w4nker but I think it may have been through habit, rather than need. If that's the case, quitting porn would take away the habit and it's just time that will tell me when I need.


Not to mind your own business, but you mentioned before you had some sentimental problems. It could be that this is the source of your current physical issues. Been there, done that...


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

With how you're feeling during PCT, would you say tren is worth it?

Looking into Fuerza's super rip at the mo..


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> With how you're feeling during PCT, would you say tren is worth it?
> 
> Looking into Fuerza's super rip at the mo..


Did the trick magnificently for me.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Did the trick magnificently for me.


Is that the super rip you're on about, or tren in general?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Is that the super rip you're on about, or tren in general?


Super Rip for evah!


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Super Rip for evah!


INTRESTING. What dose and how long'd you run it for? How long did it take for you to notice a change?

Still in 2 minds about giving it a go..


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> INTRESTING. What dose and how long'd you run it for? How long did it take for you to notice a change?
> 
> Still in 2 minds about giving it a go..


So you actually believe the tren horror stories uh? 

Been using it since early Dec 2012 and stopped it 3 weeks ago, throughout a big cut first and some lean bulk afterwards, worked like a charm and zero sides.

Ran 240mg EOD, I would have liked ED but I'm not big enough for that... Yet


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

TheMeatWagon said:


> So you actually believe the tren horror stories uh?
> 
> Been using it since early Dec 2012 and stopped it 3 weeks ago, throughout a big cut first and some lean bulk afterwards, worked like a charm and zero sides.
> 
> Ran 240mg EOD, I would have liked ED but I'm not big enough for that... Yet


Sort of, the reduction in cardio capacity scares me. How can you please a girl if you're out of breath in minutes? Also have to be fit for work, suppose some clen could help with the short breath..

Got any before and after photos?


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Sort of, the reduction in cardio capacity scares me. How can you please a girl if you're out of breath in minutes? Also have to be fit for work, suppose some clen could help with the short breath..
> 
> Got any before and after photos?


It is worth it, it's recomped me well.

The whole out of breath, less cardio issue is because too much is used, 300mg a week is plenty for this compound. I've been shedding fat and I'm still hitting PBs in the gym.


----------



## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

XRichHx said:


> It is worth it, it's recomped me well.
> 
> The whole out of breath, less cardio issue is because too much is used, 300mg a week is plenty for this compound. I've been shedding fat and I'm still hitting PBs in the gym.


How long have you been on? What dose and lab?


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> How long have you been on? What dose and lab?


Since end of Jan, 100mg Eod. Lab really is irrelevant as it *should* all be the same stuff but I use WC as I've never had any issues.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> Sort of, the reduction in cardio capacity scares me. How can you please a girl if you're out of breath in minutes? Also have to be fit for work, suppose some clen could help with the short breath..
> 
> Got any before and after photos?


I did 40m cardio every fvcking day on teen, T3 and DNP and I'm still here to tell the tale.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Not to mind your own business, but you mentioned before you had some sentimental problems. It could be that this is the source of your current physical issues. Been there, done that...


I'm not sure what you mean by that.



Tom90 said:


> With how you're feeling during PCT, would you say tren is worth it?
> 
> Looking into Fuerza's super rip at the mo..


Good question. I am in the best shape of my life so I would say yes, but then if I don't get to normal then that may change. I ran it for too long I think, and I think if I ran it again I'd have to consider Acetate.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> This?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> This?


Well, that certainly hasn't helped but the situation isn't that bad, so it's a combination of things I guess.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Well, that certainly hasn't helped but the situation isn't that bad, so it's a combination of things I guess.


Please don't take any offence as none is intended, seriously, but I think that despite the really nice cut you did, you have still got a huge room for natty improvement before you take AAS.

Again, it's not meant to be offensive I am just judging the pictures you uploaded yourself. I am no Mr. Olympia material to talk, but it doesn't surprise to see so many sides and unwanted effects with your size, perhaps the pics are misleading though, and under a different light it would be more evident that you did pack some mass. Just my 2p.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Please don't take any offence as none is intended, seriously, but I think that despite the really nice cut you did, you have still got a huge room for natty improvement before you take AAS.
> 
> Again, it's not meant to be offensive I am just judging the pictures you uploaded yourself. I am no Mr. Olympia material to talk, but it doesn't surprise to see so many sides and unwanted effects with your size, perhaps the pics are misleading though, and under a different light it would be more evident that you did pack some mass. Just my 2p.


None taken. I used to be REALLY small, arms like sticks - just a small build/bone structure. I've been training for about 6 years now but 3 of those were wasted due to my lack of knowledge. The trouble I have with gaining size is due partly to genetics (how many Asian pro-body builders do you see?), the fact I have many intolerances to foods and that I developed body fat that I have been told is typical of hormonal issues during puberty.

I think in future my cycles are going to be shorter, and use less compounds - that way the sides will be minimal.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> None taken. I used to be REALLY small, arms like sticks - just a small build/bone structure. I've been training for about 6 years now but 3 of those were wasted due to my lack of knowledge. The trouble I have with gaining size is due partly to genetics (how many Asian pro-body builders do you see?), the fact I have many intolerances to foods and that I developed body fat that I have been told is typical of hormonal issues during puberty.
> 
> I think in future my cycles are going to be shorter, and use less compounds - that way the sides will be minimal.


Food intolerances are really a big bugger. I have COMPLETE lactose intolerance, anything related to milk exits my body within 20 minutes from ingestion, together with all other nutrients, so I know whatcha talking about... Really bad!

Being asian shouldn't be an issue mate, you just have to find the right foods for you and eat plenty of those. With your build 500mg test e a week will do miracles when food is right.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Food intolerances are really a big bugger. I have COMPLETE lactose intolerance, anything related to milk exits my body within 20 minutes from ingestion, together with all other nutrients, so I know whatcha talking about... Really bad!
> 
> Being asian shouldn't be an issue mate, you just have to find the right foods for you and eat plenty of those. With your build 500mg test e a week will do miracles when food is right.


Damn, does that mean that even Whey Isolate is out of the equation for you? I don't think you should discount my genetics here - I realise it's an easy excuse for poor diet/training but I'd like to think I know what I'm doing now, but that's not to say I have perfected it so yes, tweaking my diet to fit is the key. What I am trying to figure out next is how I can integrate carbs (it seems I am intolerant to these so being in keto is where my body needs to be) so I can put on size. Going to try Waxy Maize pre-/post workout and see how I get on. I've still got to strip my body fat down further though! I want to be in the single digit club


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Damn, does that mean that even Whey Isolate is out of the equation for you? I don't think you should discount my genetics here - I realise it's an easy excuse for poor diet/training but I'd like to think I know what I'm doing now, but that's not to say I have perfected it so yes, tweaking my diet to fit is the key. What I am trying to figure out next is how I can integrate carbs (it seems I am intolerant to these so being in keto is where my body needs to be) so I can put on size. Going to try Waxy Maize pre-/post workout and see how I get on. I've still got to strip my body fat down further though! I want to be in the single digit club


Yeah even whey products are totally unapproachable by me. And I mean TOTALLY.

You did a good job with fat loss. Now put some meat on ya bones!


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Now my cycle is over I'm not going to bother creating a new thread about my fat loss using fat burners so I'll just stick it in here.

*Update: *6 caps of Yohimbine pre-workout. It seems to give me a sweaty 4rse... A rise in metabolism already 2 days in? Or just a sign that summer is on its way?

Week 4 PCT - I'm feeling much more myself now. Going to carry on the clomid until the end of the week and then go EOD for week 5 and then stop. Might do the same with Tamoxifen as the half life is long too...

I've got a week off work so I'm going to add in pre/post waxy maize starch to see how I get on.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> None taken. I used to be REALLY small, arms like sticks - just a small build/bone structure. I've been training for about 6 years now but 3 of those were wasted due to my lack of knowledge. The trouble I have with gaining size is due partly to genetics (how many Asian pro-body builders do you see?), the fact I have many intolerances to foods and that I developed body fat that I have been told is typical of hormonal issues during puberty.
> 
> I think in future my cycles are going to be shorter, and use less compounds - that way the sides will be minimal.


I know what you mean mate.. When I started training my arms were about 10 3/4 inches - that is crazy small! On my first workout I could just about bench press something like 26kg..

People who don't have poor genetics can rarely put themselves into the shoes of the less fortunate.

Alot of the problem used to be the lack of good info for hard gainers. Nowadays there seems to be plenty more good advice floating around to help, so hard gainers now definitely have it easier than I did back in the day.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

True, but then everyone claims to be a "hardgainer" when the truth is they just have no clue about training or diet. Then the true hardgainers like ourselves get judged for being the same!


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> True, but then everyone claims to be a "hardgainer" when the truth is they just have no clue about training or diet. Then the true hardgainers like ourselves get judged for being the same!


There are very few rules with dieting that apply for just everyone, it takes time to get it spot on. Sometimes, easy solutions are always the best. For example I am taking ZERO supplements, and both the cut with dnp and both the lean bulk worked just fine. In the past I was spending hundreds on supps and I got even worse results.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

How's things going Rectus on pct/love-life etc?

All ok mate?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> How's things going Rectus on pct/love-life etc?
> 
> All ok mate?


PCT is ok, still feel sh!tty sometimes tbh. Love life, that's ok too. Not much to tell really.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> PCT is ok, still feel sh!tty sometimes tbh. Love life, that's ok too. Not much to tell really.


Mood will improve when you drop nolva... Somehow it depresses the sh1t out of me. Not as much as adex, but comes very close.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> Mood will improve when you drop nolva... Somehow it depresses the sh1t out of me. Not as much as adex, but comes very close.


I'm going to take it EOD from tomorrow. As I'm going round to see the lady friend I don't want to be depressing the life out of her so I'll skip the clomid and nolva tomorrow. I've not read many posts on people getting depression from Nolva, seems more of a common problem with clomid.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* I'm starting to believe I have pecs... trying to convince myself it's in my head from what a couple of you guys have said.

Clomid/Nolva EOD. I feel good!

Another 3 days left on DAA.

Another week on Yohimbine HCL.

Week after I want to start a 2 week pharma Clen cycle.

And I feel like posting a song


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Stopped the DAA today. Feeling good this week  Got 200x40mcg Alpha-Pharma Clen (did actually ask for pharma grade...) so will start that on Monday. Not sure whether to start on 40mcg or split the tablet and start on 20mcg as I see that's the tapering protocol a lot of people use. I am able to 'finish' now when having intercourse  All is good! Apart from my back... spotty bastard. Still, it could be worse.


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update: *Stopped the DAA today. Feeling good this week  Got 200x40mcg Alpha-Pharma Clen (did actually ask for pharma grade...) so will start that on Monday. Not sure whether to start on 40mcg or split the tablet and start on 20mcg as I see that's the tapering protocol a lot of people use. I am able to 'finish' now when having intercourse  All is good! Apart from my back... spotty bastard. Still, it could be worse.


40mcg is way too much for a first timer. You'll ssshshshhshshsshshsshsshshshshssssshhhaaakkeeeee


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> 40mcg is way too much for a first timer. You'll ssshshshhshshsshshsshsshshshshssssshhhaaakkeeeee


Ok, good to know! Thanks  I'll halve it, keep it at 20mcg for 3 days, then take it up to 40mcg and see how I feel from then on.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

The right dose of clen is very subjective. I can start the cycle on 80mcg without any problems and I move up to 120mcg pretty quickly. I don't really go past this dosage though. Other people get cramps and the jitters get to be too much on even these doses.


----------



## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

Are you running the clen solo?


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> Are you running the clen solo?


Indeed. 2 weeks on/2 weeks off. On my weeks off I'll be running Yohimbine HCL which is making me sweaty as f*ck.


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Indeed. 2 weeks on/2 weeks off. On my weeks off I'll be running Yohimbine HCL which is making me sweaty as f*ck.


Be very careful....should've extended your cycle a little longer and ran the clen in that, doing a cut like this just after pct you're risking the mass you might've put on.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> Be very careful....should've extended your cycle a little longer and ran the clen in that, doing a cut like this just after pct you're risking the mass you might've put on.


Is Clen catabolic to muscle tissue? I was under the assumption it wasn't but I'll admit that I haven't done as much research on Clen as I should have. Out of desperation to get leaner I'm being less sensible... I'm in week 5 of PCT. Stopped the nolva and clomid now.


----------



## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Is Clen catabolic to muscle tissue? I was under the assumption it wasn't but I'll admit that I haven't done as much research on Clen as I should have. Out of desperation to get leaner I'm being less sensible... I'm in week 5 of PCT. Stopped the nolva and clomid now.


Yes lol. I'd talk to someone who knows how to do a decent cut naturally, I always do mine assisted just1ml of pc test e a week and I don't lose any size, it's easy to lose muscle especially with a cutting agent when you do it naturally. I'm on my iPad so can't be bothered to re read the thread but what were your aims whilst running tren?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> Yes lol. I'd talk to someone who knows how to do a decent cut naturally, I always do mine assisted just1ml of pc test e a week and I don't lose any size, it's easy to lose muscle especially with a cutting agent when you do it naturally. I'm on my iPad so can't be bothered to re read the thread but what were your aims whilst running tren?


My aim was and is to get to 10% body fat or below. From there I can lean bulk slowly as I'd rather be lean than bulky.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> Yes lol. I'd talk to someone who knows how to do a decent cut naturally, I always do mine assisted just1ml of pc test e a week and I don't lose any size, it's easy to lose muscle especially with a cutting agent when you do it naturally. I'm on my iPad so can't be bothered to re read the thread but what were your aims whilst running tren?


Have a read of this: http://thinksteroids.com/articles/clenbuterol-muscle-growth-bodybuilders/

Thoughts?


----------



## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> My aim was and is to get to 10% body fat or below. From there I can lean bulk slowly as I'd rather be lean than bulky.


How much cardio were you doing? Also what was your diet like? If you just wanted to cut straight test and some t3/clen would've done the job. I'm only talking from witnessing first hand how catabolic clen is to a natural mate, seen it happen with my gym partner a few years back. Read odd bits and pieces on the net but never looked in to it in great detail, I never cut unassisted.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> How much cardio were you doing? Also what was your diet like? If you just wanted to cut straight test and some t3/clen would've done the job. I'm only talking from witnessing first hand how catabolic clen is to a natural mate, seen it happen with my gym partner a few years back. Read odd bits and pieces on the net but never looked in to it in great detail, I never cut unassisted.


Not much cardio, it was a diet based cut - I used keto. I now do HIIT training 2-3x per week. I'm not going on an AAS cycle again until next year which will probably be straight Test E for 12 weeks.

What Clen cycle did your friend run (dose/time)?


----------



## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Not much cardio, it was a diet based cut - I used keto. I now do HIIT training 2-3x per week. I'm not going on an AAS cycle again until next year which will probably be straight Test E for 12 weeks.
> 
> What Clen cycle did your friend run (dose/time)?


If you did the cardio whilst on your results would've been a lot better and you'd be at where you're aiming more or less. He did 2 wks on 2 off highest dose was 80mcg, he did this over 10 weeks. Got lean, but lost a fair bit of strength and size.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Lew1s said:


> If you did the cardio whilst on your results would've been a lot better and you'd be at where you're aiming more or less. He did 2 wks on 2 off highest dose was 80mcg, he did this over 10 weeks. Got lean, but lost a fair bit of strength and size.


I don't know, I think I did pretty well and I don't think lots of steady state cardio would have helped because it's shown to temporarily shut off protein synthesis and your body quickly adapts to the fat loss effects of steady state. This is why I do HIIT now, and 1x steady state a week.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Done some more research on Clen, it doesn't seem to be that bad for muscle loss at all. Maybe there was another reason your mate lost size, assuming it was muscle size and not fat.


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

@rectus I think his point was more to do with cutting so soon after finishing PCT, rather than clen being catabolic.

Apparently cutting during and straight after PCT is the quickest way to lose the gains you've made..


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Tom90 said:


> @rectus I think his point was more to do with cutting so soon after finishing PCT, rather than clen being catabolic.
> 
> Apparently cutting during and straight after PCT is the quickest way to lose the gains you've made..


Ah yes, I forgot that was his point. I have read of people running it during PCT to prevent regaining fat after a cut. I guess I'll just have to find out the hard way...


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

rectus said:


> Ah yes, I forgot that was his point. I have read of people running it during PCT to prevent regaining fat after a cut. I guess I'll just have to find out the hard way...


I sincerely hope it ends well for you..


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Week 5 PCT photos:


http://imgur.com/Z6L2cuM


Still paranoid about my chest!


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## Lew1s (Feb 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> I don't know, I think I did pretty well and I don't think lots of steady state cardio would have helped because it's shown to temporarily shut off protein synthesis and your body quickly adapts to the fat loss effects of steady state. This is why I do HIIT now, and 1x steady state a week.


Plenty of people cut on just steady state cardio mate, try different things until you work out what works and is easiest for you, don't use studies as the be all and end all


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

rectus said:


> Week 5 PCT photos:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/Z6L2cuM
> ...


Looking good buddy, big change :thumbup1:


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Week 5 PCT photos:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/Z6L2cuM
> ...


You're getting there finally mate. Well done. EAT!!!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> You're getting there finally mate. Well done. EAT!!!


Ha cheers. It's going to be a slooooow loooong bulk. I'm in no rush to get any bigger right now so I'm happy to take things slow as that method yields the best results. I may switch back to normal keto/paleo from Intermittent Fasting when I decide the time has come to put on some muscle mass. Tbh, having such a small waist now makes my cock look bigger than when I was carrying more weight...


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I think that you really do look in good shape mate. You're far too paranoid about your body!


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## Tom90 (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm not sure if I'd recommend using IF to bulk, I'm eating 3500 cals a day and not gaining any weight. 3500 is 500 over my TDEE by the way, so the necessary calories are there.


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## dt36 (Jun 3, 2005)

Pics are showing a good improvement. Well done :thumbup1:


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> I think that you really do look in good shape mate. You're far too paranoid about your body!


Thanks, and I do feel so much more confident about my physique now but I think they call it body dysmorphia... I hope I get over it, if I don't I'll just keep trying different drugs until one day I push my luck too far.



Tom90 said:


> I'm not sure if I'd recommend using IF to bulk, I'm eating 3500 cals a day and not gaining any weight. 3500 is 500 over my TDEE by the way, so the necessary calories are there.


Yeah I'd agree with that. You should never feel hungry during a bulk! If you are you're doing wrong 



dt36 said:


> Pics are showing a good improvement. Well done :thumbup1:


Much appreciated, I've managed to stop a massive fat rebound which I am very pleased about. I've been hardcore with my diet all the way through.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Week 5 PCT photos:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/Z6L2cuM
> ...


Looking excellent mate. If I can get anywhere near this cut by the end of may ill be pleased.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Many total carbs were you consuming per day during keto? And from what type of foods?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Many total carbs were you consuming per day during keto? And from what type of foods?


Less than 30g and they came from veg like spinach and broccoli. The diet is very satisfying in terms of taste and satiety, I love it


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## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Less than 30g and they came from veg like spinach and broccoli. The diet is very satisfying in terms of taste and satiety, I love it


I'm fkn on that **** as 12:30 today. Been tasty so far.

What's to expect mental and physically over the next few days?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I'm fkn on that **** as 12:30 today. Been tasty so far.
> 
> What's to expect mental and physically over the next few days?


You may experience fatigue on day 3.

My typical diet was:

5 eggs + egg whites

Whey isolate

Chicken breast, almonds

Whey isolate, olive oil

Chicken breast, spinach, asapargus, olive oil

Whey isolate

I would avoid sweet things to wean yourself off them as that makes things much more manageable in terms of cravings. So even sugar free foods should be a last resort (when you're losing your mind!) which only happened to me once. Give it 2 weeks before you have your carb meal on a Sunday evening. Oh and expect your strength to go down.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> You may experience fatigue on day 3.
> 
> My typical diet was:
> 
> ...


Nice one, done the Atkins diet years ago so I have an idea of what to expect.

Expecting strength to go down but not bothered about that if the fat is disappearing means to end really.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Took 20mg Clen yesterday and today. Thank you @meatwagon for advising me to start low because the shakes are hitting me hard! Should I really be getting these sides at such a low dose? I'm running Alpha Pharma Clen (40mcg). Is there any need to increase my dose?


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update: *Took 20mg Clen yesterday and today. Thank you @meatwagon for advising me to start low because the shakes are hitting me hard! Should I really be getting these sides at such a low dose? I'm running Alpha Pharma Clen (40mcg). Is there any need to increase my dose?


I wouldn't increase the dose max 60 is fine. You don't have to be feeling it for it to be working.

Shakes at that dose is common if you haven't ever used before.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> I wouldn't increase the dose max 60 is fine. You don't have to be feeling it for it to be working.
> 
> Shakes at that dose is common if you haven't ever used before.


Have you used it yourself? Will the shakes subside with time or am I just more sensitive to Clen and 20mcg will be enough for 2 weeks?


----------



## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> Have you used it yourself? Will the shakes subside with time or am I just more sensitive to Clen and 20mcg will be enough for 2 weeks?


You look lean enough now to add say 150 200g of good carbs a day... It's ok for a lean bulk, you won't put on any flab.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> You look lean enough now to add say 150 200g of good carbs a day... It's ok for a lean bulk, you won't put on any flab.


I have started adding in 44g Waxy Maize pre and post workout so 88g in total.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

rectus said:


> I have started adding in 44g Waxy Maize pre and post workout so 88g in total.


You can't possibly put on any muscle with that mate... Have some oats at breakfast and some brown rice with meals, at least those before 6PM...


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

TheMeatWagon said:


> You can't possibly put on any muscle with that mate... Have some oats at breakfast and some brown rice with meals, at least those before 6PM...


I know but I have trouble with digesting carbs. I was not meant to bodybuild! Keto fixed my intestinal issues which is why I am having to be smarter about things.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* I've been feeling slightly depressed all day so I decided to look up the side effects of Clen -



> Clenbuterol can cause these side effects:
> 
> Nervousness


I am definitely feeling nervous which is leading to that feeling of depression. Any body had this side before and does it subside?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Going to leave the Clen alone for a couple of days as I have an important meeting on Thursday and I don't want to be any more nervous or jittery than is natural, I'll resume after that.


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

I must say that I've never suffered from nervousness from clen. I did from ephedrine, but not from clen.

But everybody reacts a bit differently to it anyway. I get the jitters and shakes just for the first few days and then it all subsides.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> I must say that I've never suffered from nervousness from clen. I did from ephedrine, but not from clen.
> 
> But everybody reacts a bit differently to it anyway. I get the jitters and shakes just for the first few days and then it all subsides.


Well I just assumed it was the Clen as I felt terrible for no reason, so I checked out what the side effects were and that is one of them. Ephedrine makes me nuts for a week! Not a bad compound though but I prefer Yohimbine HCL as I don't seem to get any side effects - apart from sweaty 4rse.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Latest measurements:

*Weight:* 65.4kg

*Body fat:* 12.1 % 

*Body water:* 64.7

*Body muscle:* 83.2


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Look at that!


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> Latest measurements:
> 
> *Weight:* 65.4kg
> 
> ...


How can you weigh 65,4kg and have 83,2kg of body muscle?? And 64,7kg of body water??

WTF?


----------



## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Anyway, whatever the measurements and scales say, you're looking in great shape and have done extremely well.

Well done mate.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> How can you weigh 65,4kg and have 83,2kg of body muscle?? And 64,7kg of body water??
> 
> WTF?


The last three measurements are in% not kg.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Took the Clen up to 60mg today. Shaking like a leaf... worried I'm going to die haha


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Hmmm not really enjoying Clen (40mcg so far today) very much. I am very aware of my heart beat and the constant tremors are annoying. Looking forward to getting back on the Yohimbine next week.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* Back on the Yohimbine, not sure how it's going to mix with the heat of the SUMMER!

I was out in the garden doing the lawn (and doing bicep curls of course) and I took my top off for the first time outdoors  That's a big deal for me. That'll save me money from not going to the tanning salon.


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update:* No update.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> *Update:* No update.


Have you introduced carbs back in or still on keto?

I'm exhausted on Keto, crazy stuff. You still cutting?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

XRichHx said:


> Have you introduced carbs back in or still on keto?
> 
> I'm exhausted on Keto, crazy stuff. You still cutting?


Well... things are a bit of a mess in my head right now. I've discovered comfort eating  It's only a chocolate bar a day but I feel so guilt ridden afterwards, and it doesn't do my digestive system any good either. I really want to get down to 10% body fat but I just want to put the work in right now. I'm half 4rsed bulking, waxy maize post workout, banana. It's my birthday next Sat and I want to try and glycogen deplete before then as it's going to be a whole day of beer, something I haven't done since last year.


----------



## XRichHx (Mar 7, 2012)

rectus said:


> Well... things are a bit of a mess in my head right now. I've discovered comfort eating  It's only a chocolate bar a day but I feel so guilt ridden afterwards, and it doesn't do my digestive system any good either. I really want to get down to 10% body fat but I just want to put the work in right now. I'm half 4rsed bulking, waxy maize post workout, banana. It's my birthday next Sat and I want to try and glycogen deplete before then as it's going to be a whole day of beer, something I haven't done since last year.


You've done well for a months a night off for your bday and a choc bar shouldn't do much.

Just take a week off eat as clean as you can, you won't gain 20lbd in a week. You deserve it.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

Are you managing to hang onto your gains from cycle and maintain your low BF?


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> Are you managing to hang onto your gains from cycle and maintain your low BF?


I've had a bad week due to being in a dark place, I'm afraid to check my body fat. I'm no longer in ketosis, so from tomorrow I'm going to get back on the chicken and spinach so I can deplete myself for the weekend (with the help of Metformin) as I will be drinking beer all day long for my birthday. I'm going to try and fast on the Friday in an attempt to make up for the insane calories consumed on the Sat. I feel like I've put on body fat, but I am a paranoid bastard.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

What's been up with you mate? Why do you say in a dark place? All ok??


----------



## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

Bull Terrier said:


> What's been up with you mate? Why do you say in a dark place? All ok??


I'm just being a big girls blouse. The woman I was seeing ended things last week. It was just friends with benefits for her but I would have married that bastard. I don't like most people so to find someone I'm so compatible with is a rarity. Sexiest woman in the world too for a bonus point. So yes, trying to deal with the rejection right now... Not in a good place and I feel like I'm simultaneously losing size and gaining fat. I don't think this is PCT related, just standard human emotion.


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## Bull Terrier (May 14, 2012)

rectus said:


> I'm just being a big girls blouse. The woman I was seeing ended things last week. It was just friends with benefits for her but I would have married that bastard. I don't like most people so to find someone I'm so compatible with is a rarity. Sexiest woman in the world too for a bonus point. So yes, trying to deal with the rejection right now... Not in a good place and I feel like I'm simultaneously losing size and gaining fat. I don't think this is PCT related, just standard human emotion.


Keep your chin up mate! I've also been at very low points various times in my life, but there's a solution to just about everything. Occasionally though things have to get worse before they get better. Unfortunately breaking up with partners is part and parcel of life mate, at all ages also. However you're still a young guy so it's not the end of the line for you by any means.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

*Update: *Went swimming today for the first time in a long time, so much more confident about my semi-nakedness now  Got called "buff" by my mate who hasn't seen my new physique in its fully glory. I can't swim though as I get horrendous calf cramp!

I did plan to fast for the whole today as I want to have less calories as tomorrow I will be having an insane amount in the form of beer to celebrate another year on this planet, but I have been working extra hard in the gym so my body aches and needs the nutrients.

I don't think I'm going to try a bulk, I'm too afraid to increase my body fat so I might just wait till I run a Test E only cycle next year. In the meantime I'll just have to accept my small frame.


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## TheMeatWagon (Dec 3, 2012)

Female rejection should push your drive to surpass yourself even further. Use it as a source of energy, works!


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

So I celebrated my birthday yesterday with an all day pub crawl, 12pm till... I have no idea what time I got in but that was a lot of beer! I prepared myself by having a 20hr fast before hand, but then just relaxed and enjoyed the excessive and empty calories  I don't feel guilty today! Result. All I got yesterday was constant flattering comments about my new physique


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

So it's my birthday today, this is how I am celebrating it:


Had a workout, new personal bests (think the Creatine is kicking in now).

Post workout shake - 3x banana whey isolate, chocolate coconut milk, waxy maize.

Walnut Whip, Cliff macadamia and white chocolate bar.

1.4g of Phenibut.

Fap.

Pie and chips from the chippy.

The Matrix Revolutions.

Feeling fat.


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

The Creatine and DAA are working a treat! New PB on the deadlift today:

Hit my best of 102.5kg on Tuesday, aimed for 105kg today but hit 107.5kg  Ooh did it feel good!


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## nlr (Oct 18, 2009)

Hi @rectus

Would you be kind enough to sum up your whole experience with tren the good, the bads and was it worth the sides in your opinion? Are you going to use it again?

Cheers


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## rectus (Jan 18, 2012)

nlr said:


> Hi @rectus
> 
> Would you be kind enough to sum up your whole experience with tren the good, the bads and was it worth the sides in your opinion? Are you going to use it again?
> 
> Cheers


*The Good:* No side effects on cycle, new "spider web" veins, muscle growth on a calorie deficit, drop in body fat.

*The Bad:* Loss of sex drive, PCT depression.

*Final thoughts:* I said I'd never run it again but I'm running Tren Ace in December for 4 weeks because Tren is a fantastic drug. Hopefully this time I won't get depression! Remember though, my review of it means nothing because you are not me, and we all respond differently to drugs. I would just think very carefully about Tren, it's a drug that needs to be highly respected and I personally wouldn't advise the use of it.


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