# Fasted cardio while trying to bulk up ?



## Scottydog81

Hi all, im currently trying to bulk ,my diet is good, training a 4 day split. As ive been bulking for almost 5 weeks now getting plenty of calories in, i have been going up well in weight but ive been putting a bit on around my middle? i must state at this point im doing 750mgs E/W of sust 350. What im racking my brains about is doing fasted cardio early in the morning in the form of walking on a steep incline for 30 mins for 3/4 mornings a week? Im worried that this is the time that we are catabolic and as im trying to gain muscle would having a protien shake with no carbs be an idea to combat this or will i just be burning this during my work out rather than fat ? Or Cos im on a cycle of test does this not matter at all ??? :confused1:

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.


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## Suprakill4

I love doing fasted cardio when bulking. I find it helps me keep leanish, and doing steady state cardio like a brisk walk instead of running, you should use your fat stores for this rather than burning away precious muscle. You could have some BCAA's before your cardio if you was worried about this.

I also find it sets my apetite up for the day, always feel hungry after fasted cardio now so can get a good meal in for breakfast....


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## Scottydog81

kieren1234 said:


> I love doing fasted cardio when bulking. I find it helps me keep leanish, and doing steady state cardio like a brisk walk instead of running, you should use your fat stores for this rather than burning away precious muscle. You could have some BCAA's before your cardio if you was worried about this.
> 
> I also find it sets my apetite up for the day, always feel hungry after fasted cardio now so can get a good meal in for breakfast....


 How many mornings a week would you do and for how long mate ?

Also cos im running 2ml of sust 350 E/W catabolism isn't a worry is it ?


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## Suprakill4

Scottydog81 said:


> How many mornings a week would you do and for how long mate ?
> 
> Also cos im running 2ml of sust 350 E/W catabolism isn't a worry is it ?


I wouldnt worry about catobolism what so ever when on cycle and doing STEADY state cardio. Big-Joe on hear always advises to do 5 minutes steady, then 5 minutes all out to get adrenaline going for the rest of the cardio which will increase the fat burning (theres more science to it than this but i forget his reasoning).

I do cardio 6 days a week, 45 minutes non training days and 30 minutes training days......


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## 54und3r5

Nothing wrong with doing cardio mate! It'll keep you lean and healthier!


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## Scottydog81

kieren1234 said:


> I wouldnt worry about catobolism what so ever when on cycle and doing STEADY state cardio. Big-Joe on hear always advises to do 5 minutes steady, then 5 minutes all out to get adrenaline going for the rest of the cardio which will increase the fat burning (theres more science to it than this but i forget his reasoning).
> 
> I do cardio 6 days a week, 45 minutes non training days and 30 minutes training days......


 Thanks Kieren, Sorry its a little bit off this thread but im just starting my 5th week on 2ml sust350(750mgs test) ive put on about 6kg but havn't noticed a big jump in strength yet ,was thinking that it would have come by now ? would you say that i will maybe feel it alot more in the next week or 2 ?


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## Suprakill4

Scottydog81 said:


> Thanks Kieren, Sorry its a little bit off this thread but im just starting my 5th week on 2ml sust350(750mgs test) ive put on about 6kg but havn't noticed a big jump in strength yet ,was thinking that it would have come by now ? would you say that i will maybe feel it alot more in the next week or 2 ?


Gains will come from around week 4 and forward so if your gear is real and adequately dosed, i suspect you will feel it more so in the next few weeks.....


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## xpower

Keep doing the fasted cardio mate,heart health is pretty important too :thumbup1:


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## Scottydog81

kieren1234 said:


> Gains will come from around week 4 and forward so if your gear is real and adequately dosed, i suspect you will feel it more so in the next few weeks.....


 yeah im doing 1ml on a tuesday and 1ml saturday to keep levels a bit more stable. The gear should be good from a good sorce, training has been spot on , as has my diet, just was getting a bit parranoid about it all cos i aint felt the strenght increase like i thought i would ,alot of people say around the 4th week for the longer esters in sust to kick in ,im just starting my 5th week today so we will see mate. Thanks again:beer:


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## Silverchair

i like this idea bud, when i start my bulk i'm going to be adding in cardio for the first time. be intrigued to see how you find it if you do it. at a low intensity it can't do any harm at all tho!


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## 3752

adding cardio whilst bulking is a very good idea......obviously if you have a very fast metabolism and are in condition all the time it may be counter productive to your goals......lets assume you are not....

cardio gives more benefits than just fat loss although it seems to be the in vogue myth to not do cardio as "it effects gaining muscle"....total b0llox in my experiance doing cardio whilst bulking or dieting helps you acheive your MUSCLE building goals.....

silverchair...on a side note very impressed with your hamstring development in your avator pic....


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## Scottydog81

Silverchair said:


> i like this idea bud, when i start my bulk i'm going to be adding in cardio for the first time. be intrigued to see how you find it if you do it. at a low intensity it can't do any harm at all tho!


 Yeah i done it this morning mate, 30 mins on tred mill walking at a pace of 5.5 and on an incline of 12, 30 mins burnt 420 cals got a good sweat on to ,was dripping, didn't let my heart rate go over 130 , but genraly kept it around 125.


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## Suprakill4

Scottydog81 said:


> Yeah i done it this morning mate, 30 mins on tred mill walking at a pace of 5.5 and on an incline of 12, 30 mins burnt 420 cals got a good sweat on to ,was dripping, didn't let my heart rate go over 130 , but genraly kept it around 125.


That type of cardio for fasted is perfect mate. Keep that up and let us know how you get on. think you will be happy you added it in.


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## warren

just read this and think its exactly what i need, i never cut as dont feel i have enough mass, said i would cut at 180lbs then 190lbs ....200lbs and so on im 212-215lbs now and feel i need to be 230lbs before i have the mass.

bad side is im not happy with bf% either im about 15%!!! i think from now on i will add in morning cardio in my bulks, infact dont even want to call them bulks, thats not and never was my aim, my aim is always to gain muscle.

i have heard thogh that under 45mins is not that effectiove as you dont start burning fat untill around 30 mins ? any truth to this? maybee you could help paul? what have you found in your experience, is 30 mins enough or need the 45... etc thanks


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## warren

thought id give a cheeky bump lol


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## Suprakill4

BigJoe advises to do steady 5 minutes, then all out for 5 minutes and then steady for the rest of the cardio however long it is as this increases adrenaline and your burning fat from there on so i would say no, it doesnt HAVE to be above 30 minutes.


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## Dagman72

Yes do cardio, I made the mistake when doing my first cycle at the beginning of the year, yes put on size but also some fat round my stomach due to not doing cardio.

Now I do 20-25 mins 4 times a week on an incline of 10 and get my heart rate at about 130 (even now when off cycle).


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## Heineken

Scottydog81 said:


> Yeah i done it this morning mate, 30 mins on tred mill walking at a pace of 5.5 and on an incline of 12, 30 mins burnt 420 cals got a good sweat on to ,was dripping, didn't let my heart rate go over 130 , but genraly kept it around 125.


This has convinced me that my computer timer box-thingy on my xtrainer is f*cked :lol:

420 cals!

I'm doing HIIT currently, 20 minutes and apparently get rid of about 100 cals! I'm on my **** by the end of it, doubt I could hold a conversation! Yet you walk and do 420 in half hour :lol:


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## warren

i always do 30 mins post work out low heart rate but im adding in 30 mins am cardio, my kcals are very high though anyway.

just wondering if 30 mins is enough


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## dtlv

In simple terms the only time I wouldn't consider doing any cardio at all is when looking to gain as much weight as possible (fat, water and muscle) in as quick a time as possible... cardio can help keep your metabolic rate and nutrient partitioning in a good state to build muscle but stay lean.


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## warren

Dtlv74 said:


> In simple terms the only time I wouldn't consider doing any cardio at all is when looking to gain as much weight as possible (fat, water and muscle) in as quick a time as possible... cardio can help keep your metabolic rate and nutrient partitioning in a good state to build muscle but stay lean.


read alot of your postys and you have great knowledge, whats you veiw on timing? does it take x ammount of mins untill your are fat burning of not thanks


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## RACK

I have to do a fair amount of cardio either cuttin or bulkin, doesn't bother me at all though I enjoy it


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## Suprakill4

RACK said:


> I have to do a fair amount of cardio either cuttin or bulkin, doesn't bother me at all though I enjoy it


Me too, nothing beats doing 45 minutes cardio in the morning whilst watching beauty and the geek on channel e4+1 LOL!!!


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## Scottydog81

RACK said:


> I have to do a fair amount of cardio either cuttin or bulkin, doesn't bother me at all though I enjoy it


 same here mate love it. :thumb:


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## glen danbury

IMO I think thetre is far too much fear of this 'catabolic' situation being unfeed or doing cardio

if your bulking your stores will be so high that even fasted will have a ton of substrates to use before going anywhere near muscle

add to this cardio will only negivitely affect gains if done to the volumes of a cardio athlete not the gentle 30-40 mins done by most meat heads

even during calorie restriction i thin k the catabolic effect is over emphasised IMO


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## Muncle

Just started a bulking cycle and must admit i neglect cardio and have only done fasted cardio when cutting - will add it now though.

Just one other thing I train before work 6.30 am - would you still recomend 30 mins fast walk after my workout then hit the PWO shake?


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## dtlv

warren_1987 said:


> read alot of your postys and you have great knowledge, whats you veiw on timing? does it take x ammount of mins untill your are fat burning of not thanks


Cheers for the compliment buddy.

As far as I'm aware, fat burning is determined by the intensity of the exercise and which energy stores you are using and the process is pretty instantaneous... as soon as you are exercising at the right intensity to optimally burn fat you start burning it.

The only time things change in terms of which energy source you utilise is when an energy store runs out... ie, when running a marathon, at around 20 miles most people suddenly experience a drop off in performance (the 'wall'), and this is largely due to the body running out of liver glycogen.

Up until this point the body uses an optimum mix of fat and glycogen to fuel the working muscles, metabolism and the cardiovascular demand of the exercise and does so at the same rate from the moment you start out (unless you vary your pace), but once the glycogen is gone, the body has to use a higher percentage of fat as there's no way to get enough glycogen anymore even by glycogenesis. Since it takes longer to produce the required ATP from fat than glycogen, the body can no longer function quite as well and so performance is effected.

There is I guess something else worth mentioning about fat burning and cardio... a large portion of fat used for energy during the exercise itself is actually intramuscular fat and not subcutaneous fat, although you still burn more subcut fat than at rest... cardio still works though because it has a nice effect once you stop exercising on your metabolism, raising it so that you burn much more fat while resting, and this is pretty much all subcutaneous fat.


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## Scottydog81

Although it is fasted cardio im doing , i do have a very strong black coffee before i hit the gym early before work. Ive read that the high caffine can swith the body to burning fat as fuel quicker , any one know any more on this ? Also would 5 grames of gluttamine make sure there wasn't any chance of catobolism? or is it not worth it ?


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## warren

cheers lads, i will be doing 30 min am fasted and 30 mins post workout!

just at begining of tren and test cycle right now and gained well last time but may see a difference more than scales this time


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## hilly

i do 25mins in the am after some glut and bcaa. i then smash a pro shake straight after then hit breaky an hour later. also do some higher intensity conditioning cardio for 20 mins twice a week on off days from training. seems to help both bf levels and fitness when weight training.


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## mallett

Hi,

I just have a question:

I'm on a clean bulk cycle at the mo and i would like to get rid of a bit of excess bodyfat. I need 3500 kcal in order to bulk, i would spend say 400 cals on the running machine post workout which would bring me down to 3100. Would i need to replace those cals in order to keep on bulking? I thought that would that just add the fat on again?

I'm confused bout this one! Can anyone help?!

mallett


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