# I Have No Lats Need Some Serious Help !!!!!



## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I need some serious help, I seem to be developing eveywhere else but my lats, yes I am working my lats, all the usual stuff, but they dont seem to be responding, also Im lifting heavy on my lats should I lift lighter?,

I want those big wings, those huge He-Man lats, how on earth do I get them??? Im a natty, and please dont mention deadlifts and squats as I have two slipped discs in my lower back that means I cant do those exercises, so how do I get them heavenly lats without to use a (Hodge Twins) term without snapping some s*it up!.

Any advice would be very much appreciated. Cheers......


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## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

Heavy deads.

@CaptainLats


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

Two slipped one bulged disc. Squatting properly and deeply with good form is what fixed my back. I now have close to a 300 deadlift..

But by all means spend your entire life never fulfilling you potential because you can blame it on something out of your control...


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## WilsonR6 (Feb 14, 2012)

Heavy deadlifts and bent over rows

Lots of people swear by wide grip pull ups/pulldowns


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Cheers fella,

that would terminate me, not what Im looking for really lol


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## mrwright (Oct 22, 2013)

If lifting heavy isnt working try lighter

Make sure you lift with the back not your arms etc


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Cheers fella,

I did menton in my post due to a spinal injury I cant deadlift, but thanks anyway


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

NO deadlifts.. moderate weight Rack Pulls for the rescue


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

That fixed your back?,

serious dont take this wrong way but, no way would I follow that advice, that would finish me off, but thanks anyway.............


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## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

Pull ups ,lat pulldowns ,rows..Its not brain science mate


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## Big Man 123 (Aug 1, 2013)

What exercises are you doing and what technique are you using with them?


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Cheers fella,

I already do all those, agreed 100% its defo not brain science lucky for us really!


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## BetterThanYou (Oct 3, 2012)

no deadlifts no rack pulls, nothing too heavy.. you not gonna have a nice looking thick wide back no way in hell, wide grip weighted pull ups this is your best bet


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## SwAn1 (Jun 4, 2012)

Oddly I find flat BB bench makes my lats grow


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## Captain lats (Mar 25, 2014)

Gary29 said:


> Heavy deads.
> 
> @CaptainLats


you forgot to put a space in between hahaha


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Cheers fella,

Still I will give it my best shot...


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Pendlay rows

Pull ups, regular and wide.

Well it works for me


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

weirdly i used to think that i didnt have very well developed lats, until i started to learn to pose and was taught a real lat spread, suddenly that perception changed alot...if you know anyone who competes or is good with poses ask them to show you how to do it, you might suprise yourself pulling them out properly


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## UkWardy (Mar 30, 2014)

Captain lats said:


> you forgot to put a space in between hahaha


You found it anyway though!


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## eezy1 (Dec 14, 2010)

try thumbless grips on ur chins, lat pulls and seated rows

and you aint gonna be building a set of stand out lats overnight dude


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## Nevo23 (Jun 14, 2013)

Personally I felt that throwing in wide grip pull ups, under hand and over hand bent over rows has worked really well to bring mine out.


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Yeah cheers fella,

Its gonna take time I guess.....


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## Mark2021 (Apr 13, 2012)

Close grip underhand lat Pulldown

Feel the muscle contract, hold and squeeze for a second at bottom

Bent over rows


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

If the rest of you is developing, its likely you have high insertions,and limited potential to develop the "lats" of your dreams.


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## 1010AD (May 30, 2009)

The Day Walker said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I need some serious help, I seem to be developing eveywhere else but my lats, yes I am working my lats, all the usual stuff, but they dont seem to be responding, also Im lifting heavy on my lats should I lift lighter?,
> 
> ...


Probably been said but wide pull ups


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

I'll still give it my best shot fella, cheers anyway.....


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

I stand by what I said first page.

Don't let your perception of what you can and can't do limit your potential.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

A brilliant read from Dorian Yates on building your lats and back in general (in case you don't know who Dorian Yates is, he only had one of the best backs in bodybuilding history!).

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/yates_guide_to_a_better_back


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

I agree with you on that!, cheers for the link buddy, I will have a proper look at that,

Yep Im a big fan of Dorian Yates, Im using the Dorian Yates Nox Pump pre work out at the moment, great stuff....


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Lat pull downs but - its all in the action not the weight.

Scoobs does a video where it explains the science


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Cheers fella,

I will check out Scoobs vid,


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## RugbyLad (Feb 15, 2014)

Deadlifts


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## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

If you live near me you can come round for a back workout providing you don't give me the 'too heavy' bol locks. 

My back is my best body part.


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Not sure if you read my full post, but deadlifts are out for me mate, due to an old spinal injury, cheers anyway...


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Im glad it worked for you fella, sounds like a miracle, could have went the other way for you though and ended you up with a few more slipped discs, dont think any doctor would recommend your advice though to be fair lol...

But I am and will continue to try to lift smart as I want to lift for a long time, I have already tried certain exercises that just brought back all my old back problems, some people can be rehabiltated to a certain degree, but one mans pleasure can be another mans pain, I'll stick to the pull downs, pull ups and kneeling bent over dumbel row is as far as I will push it,

cheers anyway fella...


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## Robbie (Dec 31, 2007)

Narrow grip, don't get caught up in the whole wide grip for wide lats rubbish. And frequency, your lats can take a regular beating - I train mine 3 times a week


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## big vin (Apr 18, 2010)

Chins will give you width and thickness if you cant do them use wrist straps and/or do assisted chins untill you get stronger. You cant fail with chins


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

Actually it might have been vic naturals - same rule through, its all about the form, start the movement with your elbows level with your ears not fully extended and stop when your hands are level with your chin like most of this body building lark its all to do with moving things at right angles.


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Cheers fella,

Yeah the wide grip thing does seem like a bit of a myth thats built up, In an article another guy posted in responce to my thread even the legendary Dorian Yates said the whole wide grip thing is a pure myth and that the narrow grip is better, well if its good enough for Dorian enough said really.....


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## saxondale (Nov 11, 2012)

The Day Walker said:


> Cheers fella,
> 
> Yeah the wide grip thing does seem like a bit of a myth thats built up, In an article another guy posted in responce to my thread even the legendary Dorian Yates said the whole wide grip thing is a pure myth and that the narrow grip is better, well if its good enough for Dorian enough said really.....


Lats is easy, look in the mirror and you should be able to see them working, mix it up wide, narrow, seated or standing


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## f4tb0y (Jan 11, 2014)

Chins, chins and more chins - lean back a bit and pull up to the nipple.

Work up to a couple of sets of 12 reps then start adding weight, time you get up to a couple of sets of 12 with a 20kg plate on your belt you'll have some lats 

Don't see many people on the chin-up bar nowadays which is a shame as there's nothing better, pulldowns just don't hit it the same.


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> Two slipped one bulged disc. Squatting properly and deeply with good form is what fixed my back. I now have close to a 300 deadlift..
> 
> But by all means spend your entire life never fulfilling you potential because you can blame it on something out of your control...


A year on and I still think about this really really bad advice given here, its got to be one of the most silliest things I have heard in my whole life, this is why forums are not a good place sometimes, hows your back fella?, thank god I had common sense to not follow this really bad advice......................


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## Benchbum (Apr 20, 2011)

The Day Walker said:


> A year on and I still think about this really really bad advice given here, its got to be one of the most silliest things I have heard in my whole life, this is why forums are not a good place sometimes, hows your back fella?, thank god I had common sense to not follow this really bad advice......................


Mine is great; I had my follow up, have near no damage any more and hit a few strength related pb's this last month


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

weighted pull ups, deadlifts


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Prince Adam said:


> Pendlay rows
> 
> Pull ups, regular and wide.
> 
> Well it works for me


^ this, plus t-bar rows/meadows rows is about all thats left.

still going to be lower back taxing to a degree though, its the nature of the beast.

not as serious, but I came off a bike in the winter back in 2001 and suffered terribly until i strengthened my core a few years later.. maybe dont jump right into heavy deads, but some work on the supporting muscles would do wonders for your back.

I have a mate with fused vertebra after spinal surgery who still dead lifts so its possible to do with perseverance.


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Vgrip pulldowns. Tbar underhand grip pulldowns. Widegrip rows. Vgrip rows. Db rows. Bent over rows. Tbar underhand seated rows. Pullups. Chinups.


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

The Day Walker said:


> A year on and I still think about this really really bad advice given here, its got to be one of the most silliest things I have heard in my whole life, this is why forums are not a good place sometimes, hows your back fella?, thank god I had common sense to not follow this really bad advice......................


Jesus Christ......don't fcukin do them then!!

Youve Gotta question the sense of someone with a stuffed back asking a forum full of bodybuilders how to train a knackered back. Go speak to a consultant or a physio!


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## unleashhell (Aug 15, 2014)

slow close grip seated rows are what i feel work the lats for me, really concentrate on the squeeze.

get operated on...i had a bi-lateral lumbar discectomy in 2012 and its prob 95% improvement.

got told not to use rowing machines or deadlift....i do both...good form is key, light weight high reps to start with for a while and work up.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

> A year on and I still think about this really really bad advice given here, its got to be one of the most silliest things I have heard in my whole life, this is why forums are not a good place sometimes, hows your back fella?, thank god I had common sense to not follow this really bad advice......................


so what advice did you take and how have your lats come on from last year ?


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

Its worth pointing out that a suggested treatment for arthritis given by medical professionals is to strengthen the supporting muscles of the affected area.

is this bad advice from a forum too?


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## JayPardoe.com (Oct 13, 2015)

You really need to focus on feeling the contraction with the back. No matter what excercise it is.

Even when doing pull ups you should be pulling from the elbows and trying to draw the power through your back.

On a lat pull down retract your spacula and really focus on pulling with the lat muscles. Drop the weight.

You see so many people going heavy on back exercise and really all they are doing is taking the weight off the back and relying on their arms.

Really focus on squeezing that fu**ing muscle.


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## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

Lats are always a hard one for me, of all the exercises this is the one where you need to mentally concentrate on squeezing the lats as biceps just take over. Also you need to resist upping the weight, stop and squeeze the contraction at the end. And avoid that God awful rocking motion almost every average gym goer seems to do.

Well just my opinion!

I really wish gyms would stock the pullover machines. Of all gyms I have been it only one every had it. Dumbbell pullovers are just messy for me when weigh gets high.


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## toecutter (Dec 28, 2014)

When I used to Box, a lot of lads, including myself, built great lats JUST from chin ups and pull ups. Genetics comes into play in terms of appearance - width, length and thickness. Not everyone has the genetics for Dorian Yates "shield" like lats.

Bruce Lee had great lats too. He did a lot of rope climbing.

I've heard some people say they've built great lats from BB & DB rows and I can believe them too.

People get far too het up over this exercise being better than that exercise, etc. Whatever exercise you're doing, it comes down to focus, intensity and hard work.

Pulling exercises (back, biceps, etc) I've found I get better workouts when I concentrate on range of motion - the contraction and a slow, controlled negative, fighting the burn. Pushing can be more about time under tension with heavy weights.


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## bigjons (Oct 6, 2015)

focus on your form first and then the gains will come


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## arcticfox (Jan 11, 2015)

WilsonR6 said:


> Lots of people swear by wide grip pull ups/pulldowns


Bread and butter


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> Jesus Christ......don't fcukin do them then!!
> 
> Youve Gotta question the sense of someone with a stuffed back asking a forum full of bodybuilders how to train a knackered back. Go speak to a consultant or a physio!


Steady on macho man, im fu**ing 39 now its an injury from when I was 17 slipped two discs, spoke to loads of specialists, and physio, best advice docs gave me was dont do stuff that aggrevates the problem, The hodge twins have the same condition you know them youtube fitness guys on youtube? and they make fun of people who overstate the importance of the deadlift and weighted squats, you've got to question the sense of people like yourself bruv really..........should people who have injuries stop training all together no of course not lol...........


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

Docs advice take it easy on the back was easily the best advice all day long, Im pain free which is great, lats are growing nice cheers, one arm dumbbell rows are pure magic cheers............


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

The Day Walker said:


> Steady on macho man, im fu**ing 39 now its an injury from when I was 17 slipped two discs, spoke to loads of specialists, and physio, best advice docs gave me was dont do stuff that aggrevates the problem, The hodge twins have the same condition you know them youtube fitness guys on youtube? and they make fun of people who overstate the importance of the deadlift and weighted squats, you've got to question the sense of people like yourself bruv really..........should people who have injuries stop training all together no of course not lol...........


Do em, don't do em....it's up to you but don't bleat on about bad advice when it's obviously worked for others in the past. No one here is qualified so you'll only get opinions of what works for us

Should people with injuries stop training altogether?

Maybe use some common sense, only you can answer that question about your own body.

Failing that, Perhaps ask these Hodge twins.......ey bruv


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> Its worth pointing out that a suggested treatment for arthritis given by medical professionals is to strengthen the supporting muscles of the affected area.
> 
> is this bad advice from a forum too?


No fella but one has to be carful to actually use enough weight without further aggravating the bone problem would you not agree?


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## andyboro (Oct 1, 2006)

The Day Walker said:


> No fella but one has to be carful to actually use enough weight without further aggravating the bone problem would you not agree?


Yeah, of course.

It may be the case that the thing you're trying to avoid could actually do some good though.

For me, the thought of working around a weakened area whilst adding mass sounds like a recipe for further problems and pain if im honest. Not the same, but as an example, I had/still have some rehab to do on my right shoulder where 4 years of archery gave me a muscular imbalance that resulted in pain when i tried to press anything (i was shooting and not training). Over the last 9 months i've been able to manage and minimise it through mobility work and concentrating on form to the point where if it does hurt, its because im doing it wrong.

Going off on a bit of a tangent here I know but i think its a valid one. Do you see anyone about rehab? The whole 'avoid aggravating it' just sounds like a doctors answer and wont in any way account for you wanting to continue to train.


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> Do em, don't do em....it's up to you but don't bleat on about bad advice when it's obviously worked for others in the past. No one here is qualified so you'll only get opinions of what works for us
> 
> Should people with injuries stop training altogether?
> 
> ...


Ok I will try to enlighten you bruv, which looks like it might take a while, dont know if I got the time, us people who have old injuries that we have to be careful not to iritate, well we still enjoy an active life bruv, believe it or not we still like to do all the activities that life has to offer does that make sense to you lol........and believe me when I say you dont speak for all the body builders on this forum so your first comment was a bit retarded really, I was obviuosly asking the smart lifters of the community, instead I got your reply which was the type of comment that first prompted me to say sometimes forums aint so great for advice lol........if you want to lift for life you have to lift smart for life, bodybuilding aint just about moving weight, its about contraction and form which a few of the other guys also stated with their replies which restored my faith a little in getting advice form forums............think a little with your replies dont be a cliche fella you can do better than that surly.


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

The Day Walker said:


> Ok I will try to enlighten you bruv, which looks like it might take a while, dont know if I got the time, us people who have old injuries that we have to be careful not to iritate, well we still enjoy an active life bruv, believe it or not we still like to do all the activities that life has to offer does that make sense to you lol........and believe me when I say you dont speak for all the body builders on this forum so your first comment was a bit retarded really, I was obviuosly asking the smart lifters of the community, instead I got your reply which was the type of comment that first prompted me to say sometimes forums aint so great for advice lol........if you want to lift for life you have to lift smart for life, bodybuilding aint just about moving weight, its about contraction and form which a few of the other guys also stated with their replies which restored my faith a little in getting advice form forums............think a little with your replies dont be a cliche fella you can do better than that surly.


LOL this has got to be one of the poorest attempts at humor and condescension I have ever seen 

Bruv......you are not the only one with some years under your belt and an old injury that needs careful treatment. Yet again, I'll explain this to you as you don't appear to have any grasp of how opinions work. If you ask for opinions you will get them regardless of if you like them or not. If you don't want members opinions of how to best take forward your training with a slipped disk then don't ask for it!!



The Day Walker said:


> A year on and I still think about this really really bad advice given here, its got to be one of the most silliest things I have heard in my whole life, this is why forums are not a good place sometimes, hows your back fella?, thank god I had common sense to not follow this really bad advice......................


I'll just leave the above contradiction here for you to read again. :confused1: :lol:


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> Yeah, of course.
> 
> It may be the case that the thing you're trying to avoid could actually do some good though.
> 
> ...


Prolapsed degenerated dics in the spine ( strong rubber like tissue which allows the spine to be flexible) are not muscle problems, once you herniate a disc like the doc told me, they may with or without physio pop back into place but if they dont then your pretty ****ed, docs cant fix this and most are very reluctant to operate to even try when it involves the spine as they run the risk of making things worse, herniated discs are usually painful as when they protrude they usually push on a nerve giving you severe pain, thankfully with time for me by taking docs advice to take it easy with the back and do gentle exercise the pain subsided eventually, but if I lift some heavy s**t the pain returns, as the problem cant be fixed...........


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> LOL this has got to be one of the poorest attempts at humor and condescension I have ever seen
> 
> Bruv......you are not the only one with some years under your belt and an old injury that needs careful treatment. Yet again, I'll explain this to you as you don't appear to have any grasp of how opinions work. If you ask for opinions you will get them regardless of if you like them or not. If you don't want members opinions of how to best take forward your training with a slipped disk then don't ask for it!!
> 
> I'll just leave the above contradiction here for you to read again. :confused1: :lol:


Aint no contradiction there bruv tell me where's the contradiction, seems your a bit slow upstairs fella, I was stating how someone gave some poor advice in the past, trust me I dont rely on forums on how to move forward either lol its good to see what folks say but I dont take it as gospel mate, from your first comment fella you've been on an ego trip, nearly everyone who replied said somthing that was of value except you, you came in like a dumb brute of a man, like a gorilla swinging on a rope looking for a banana, look at all the other replies......you said the dumbest s**t bruv, im still trying to work out if your really that dumb or your trying to be a macho macho man lol, just coz we lift weights dont mean we got to be mindless apes DOH!!

Props to you though for trying to use a big word which was probably way out of your vocabulary "condescension" ha ha ha...........


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## Verno (Apr 18, 2008)

The Day Walker said:


> Aint no contradiction there bruv tell me where's the contradiction, seems your a bit slow upstairs fella, I was stating how someone gave some poor advice in the past, trust me I dont rely on forums on how to move forward either lol its good to see what folks say but I dont take it as gospel mate, from your first comment fella you've been on an ego trip, nearly everyone who replied said somthing that was of value except you, you came in like a dumb brute of a man, like a gorilla swinging on a rope looking for a banana, look at all the other replies......you said the dumbest s**t bruv, im still trying to work out if your really that dumb or your trying to be a macho macho man lol, just coz we lift weights dont mean we got to be mindless apes DOH!!
> 
> Props to you though for trying to use a big word which was probably way out of your vocabulary "condescension" ha ha ha...........


The contradiction sweetie is that you asked for advice then came back a year and a half later to whine about it lol.

Its quite simple "bruv" (God You even keep missing that one lol) you asked for advice/opinions whatever then whinged that it was bad advice. I have no need to give you advice as you've already had a shitload of appropriate advice which again you whinged about.

The only reason I commented in the first place is because you were being such a Whiney little bitch about it. Train it or don't. Who gives a fcuk!!

Funny how you've only now changed your tune about all this positive advice because you've been challenged!!

Anyway I'll leave it there sweetie to give you another hour or so to digest it before you reply


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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)




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## The Day Walker (May 15, 2013)

> The contradiction sweetie is that you asked for advice then came back a year and a half later to whine about it lol.
> 
> Its quite simple "bruv" (God You even keep missing that one lol) you asked for advice/opinions whatever then whinged that it was bad advice. I have no need to give you advice as you've already had a shitload of appropriate advice which again you whinged about.
> 
> ...


Ok Verny thats not a contradiction, but hey if thats what you believe it is good on yer, God help any training partners you have, cant imagine anyone would train with you for very long you make a mountain out of a mole hill lol................ :stuart:


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Chins/pulldowns with varying grips for width, rows with a close grip/elbows close to the body for thickness.

Lats 101 that, all you need (obviously some upper back (wide gripped/elbows out rows) and lower back (if you can) work would be needed to complete the whole back package, but we're talking lats here). Form>weight when it comes to lats.


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