# How do you know if you're gaining more fat than muscle?



## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

So does it look like i've gained more muscle or fat? In the one picture (with more light) I was 159 lb and it was taken in March. The Second one I weighed 184 lb and it was just recently taken. Any improvement what so ever?

I'm not too completely concerned about fat gain, but when I decide to cut, what physique would I have to cut for? Will I look good when I'm done cutting? Does it look like I have gyno or is it just fat?


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## Yes (May 4, 2014)

I looks like you've been eating too much TBH. Aren't you also on gear too, or is that someone else?


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## Big ape (May 5, 2011)

Without sounding rude or harsh i would carry on building as your not gonna be left with much when u cut. On a plus side u can definitely notice a difference and more gainssss


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

i think i bulked for 4 years straight when i was clean and 160 LB.
Then after 200LB i began to think about cut 

Just gain,


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Your time would be better spent posting up your current diet and workout routine with current lifts ? you'll get the advice you need to build the muscle that you want.

Your time would be better spent posting up your current diet and workout routine with current lifts ? you'll get the advice you need to build the muscle that you want.


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

You've added what... 25lbs.

It's hard to tell with such crap pics tbh (put the camera on a ledge, use the timer and switch the f'in light on lol).

It's easy to see you've added fat, but not so easy to notice muscle gain (not saying there isn't any though). Fat gain is inevitable though, just need to keep it under control.

To monitor fat levels you simply need to pinch an inch. Chest, thigh and stomach are good places. Use a set of callipers off ebay if you want to


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

youve clearly gained a fair rake of fat but its hard to tell what the damage is with them pics. whats your diet and training like?? are you training 100% intense to ensure use of the food? is the food clean? are you doing any cardio?


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## MBR (Feb 28, 2014)

To answer your question in the post title. You will know you are gaining more fat than muscle if see more fat as apposed to muscle when you look in the mirror. Are you still on Dbol / Test cycle ? as some of this weight you've gained could be water. As posted above, if you are worried you are putting on too much fat, post up your diet, cardio and training and you will get advice on how to adjust these accordingly.


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

If your weight is going up too quickly it's fat. If your weight is going up but the weight your lifting isn't it's fat. If you need a bigger waist size jeans/trousers it's fat.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

I haven't been doing any cardio and my diet isn't the best. I'm basically just trying to get in enough protein and calories. Is this why I have so much fat?

i train hard and I train in high reps like 3x30 or 4x25


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

enzo2311 said:


> i train hard and I train in high reps like 3x30 or 4x25


Do you mean you do a mix of low and high rep work, or just that you train 'hard' by performing 30 rep sets? What is the lowest rep range you train? Sounds as if you need to start lifting some heavier weights...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Oh, and too many calories will make you fat, not a lack of cardio.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Do you mean you do a mix of low and high rep work, or just that you train 'hard' by performing 30 rep sets? What is the lowest rep range you train? Sounds as if you need to start lifting some heavier weights...


aside from the sodium, are hungry man frozen meals good or bad?

for the past few weeks I was training 4x8 and now I'm doing 4x25.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Do you mean you do a mix of low and high rep work, or just that you train 'hard' by performing 30 rep sets? What is the lowest rep range you train? Sounds as if you need to start lifting some heavier weights...


aside from the sodium, are hungry man frozen meals good or bad?

for the past few weeks I was training 4x8 and now I'm doing 4x25.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

enzo2311 said:


> I haven't been doing any cardio and my diet isn't the best. I'm basically just trying to get in enough protein and calories. Is this why I have so much fat?
> 
> i train hard and I train in high reps like 3x30 or 4x25


f**ks sake mate do some cardio and sort your diet

That will help


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

superpube said:


> f**ks sake mate do some cardio and sort your diet
> 
> That will help


ok. To help get in the necessary calories can I drink weight gainer shake and a hungry man frozen dinner? Extra sodium is healthy for me due to a medical condition so sodium is no issue, but besides that are those dinners ok to eat? I also got a pack of ensure

whatcwill cardio do for me? I thought fat loss and muscle gain at the same time was impossible, but is it possible with gear?


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

dannythinx said:


> If your weight is going up too quickly it's fat. If your weight is going up but the weight your lifting isn't it's fat. If you need a bigger waist size jeans/trousers it's fat.


I figured since it was going up faster than normal it was just the gear working. How much weight should I put on when using gear? 3 lb a wk?


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> ok. To help get in the necessary calories can I drink weight gainer shake and a hungry man frozen dinner? Extra sodium is healthy for me due to a medical condition so sodium is no issue, but besides that are those dinners ok to eat? I also got a pack of ensure
> 
> whatcwill cardio do for me? I thought fat loss and muscle gain at the same time was impossible, but is it possible with gear?


No, frozen dinners are s**t. Typically very low protein and mostly bad fats and bad carbs.

Simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain is somewhat possible with gear, but it requires a very good diet, good training, and well timed cardio. From what you've said so far in this thread it seems like you have none of these.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> I figured since it was going up faster than normal it was just the gear working. How much weight should I put on when using gear? 3 lb a wk?


You may gain 3 lbs a week in the first few weeks due to water retention, but you won't build muscle that fast. 1lb a week is reasonable.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Tomahawk said:


> No, frozen dinners are s**t. Typically very low protein and mostly bad fats and bad carbs.
> 
> Simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain is somewhat possible with gear, but it requires a very good diet, good training, and well timed cardio. From what you've said so far in this thread it seems like you have none of these.


isn't a pound a week something that someone who isn't on gear could achieve??

The he frozen dinners I get have 40 grams protein and 800 calories

if not not what can I do to help get in the extra calories needed?

___________________________

because it seems I have gained fat, is this a sign that I should lower my calorie intake?

I always try to drink a weight gainer shake before bed, should I stick to the rule of not eating 3 hours before bed?


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

enzo2311 said:


> isn't a pound a week something that someone who isn't on gear could achieve??
> 
> The he frozen dinners I get have 40 grams protein and 800 calories


Forget frozen dinners. get fresh meats & good sources of protein. You could very easily base a diet around the following;

Protein - Chicken, Beef, Turkey, Tuna, Eggs, Salmon to name a few.

Carbs - Oats, Bagels, Noodles (low fat), potatoes, rice, pasta.

Fats - Peanut butter, almonds, Olive oil, Fish.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Starz said:


> Forget frozen dinners. get fresh meats & good sources of protein. You could very easily base a diet around the following;
> 
> Protein - Chicken, Beef, Turkey, Tuna, Eggs, Salmon to name a few.
> 
> ...


if I'm at a small caloric surplus or even a small caloric deficit will I still have good gains and will I have the ability to lose some of the fat I'm carrying? Will I continue building muscle?


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Stop the nonsense

Bulk or cut

You can't do both...

Bulk for winter...too look good with cloths.... Don't bother if you get a bit fat we all do.. It too fat you got to many calories and no burning enough from your activities and training...

Then

Diet before summer to look good with no shirt on...

And listen to the advise on here people trying to help you


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## MBR (Feb 28, 2014)

This /\/\



enzo2311 said:


> I haven't been doing any cardio and my *diet isn't the best*. I'm basically just *trying to get in enough* protein and *calories*. Is this why I have so much fat?
> 
> i train hard and I train in high reps like 3x30 or 4x25


Do you know how many calories you are eating per day? Do you know how many calories you maintain on? If not, just eating everything in sight in the hope you will gain is gonna result in gaining weight, which some will be fat.


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

enzo2311 said:


> I haven't been doing any cardio and my diet isn't the best. I'm basically just trying to get in enough protein and calories. Is this why I have so much fat?
> 
> i train hard and I train in high reps like 3x30 or 4x25


you aren't training hard if your hitting 30 reps for 4 sets Pal. And yes your fat because your diet is slack and you aren't keeping cardio in during a bulk which imo is vital


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## graham58 (Apr 7, 2013)

sounds to me ,that you haven,t got a clue about training or diet,i hate to think that you are on gear as well.taking gear when you are not training or eating correct will do jack s**t for you except maybe give you gyno and a limp dick.


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> I figured since it was going up faster than normal it was just the gear working. How much weight should I put on when using gear? 3 lb a wk?


Put it this way. A pound is 16 ounces. That's two 8 ounce steaks. That's a lot of meat. I honestly don't think you can put on a pound of lean 100% muscle a week. The weight will be made up of muscle, water, glycogen, and fat. Even on aas I don't think your body is capable of producing that much muscle tissue that quickly. Can you imagine how you'd look if you put on the equivalent of 20 cuts of sirloin so 10lbs of muscle?! You'd look like jay cutler after 3 cycles lol


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> for the past few weeks I was training 4x8 and now I'm doing 4x25.


I suspect you would benefit from the advice you would get if you posted up your actual routine. If you were natty (like me) I would definitely be adving you that 25 rep sets were too high, and I suspect the same is true for someone at your stage on gear but someone else ought to really comment on this.

Have your lifts gone up by much since March?


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> I suspect you would benefit from the advice you would get if you posted up your actual routine. If you were natty (like me) I would definitely be adving you that 25 rep sets were too high, and I suspect the same is true for someone at your stage on gear but someone else ought to really comment on this.
> 
> Have your lifts gone up by much since March?


Yeah, like at that time I was just focusing on perfect form on the actual bar on the bench press, but now I can lift the bar plus 60 lb. (I know its not a lot, but I would focus on form more than anything). And my deadlifts are the same except I started later.


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## Nuts (Aug 19, 2013)

enzo2311 said:


> isn't a pound a week something that someone who isn't on gear could achieve??
> 
> *The he frozen dinners I get have 40 grams protein and 800 calories*
> 
> ...


So 640 calories from carbs and fat  , you need to research diet and foods more, post up your full diet for each day.


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

enzo2311 said:


> Yeah, like at that time I was just focusing on perfect form on the actual bar on the bench press, but now I can lift the bar plus 60 lb. (I know its not a lot, but I would focus on form more than anything). And my deadlifts are the same except I started later.


are you on cycle? You were pressing the bar only and you are on cycle? I've heard of people not making full potential of their natural genetic limit but this is something else! Jesus Christ


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

4x30 reps ffs, who the f**k trains in this rep range.

and what the f**k is a hungry man meal, no one lives off that s**t, least of a bodybuilder.

this is a fu**ing absolute piss take , gotta be.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

1manarmy said:


> are you on cycle? You were pressing the bar only and you are on cycle? I've heard of people not making full potential of their natural genetic limit but this is something else! Jesus Christ


No I was benching 105 lb. when I began cycling :/


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The basic advice here is to eat a bit less if you are gaining too much fat. If you want any better help you need to post up full details of your training and diet. Anything else will just result in people wasting time making guesses at what you do...


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Nuts said:


> So 640 calories from carbs and fat  , you need to research diet and foods more, post up your full diet for each day.


So I usually drink a 1k calorie shake with whole milk, and throughout the day i probably drink about 5 cups of whole milk, with 2 waffles and syrup, a big bowl of cottage cheese, 2-3 Ensure's, 5-6 gatorades, a chicken breast, and an assortment of fruit and vegetables throughout the day. There are also other foods that I eat, but its random, maybe a few pretzel rolls here, or a chicken breast or two there.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> The basic advice here is to eat a bit less if you are gaining too much fat. If you want any better help you need to post up full details of your training and diet. Anything else will just result in people wasting time making guesses at what you do...


chest press, seated dips, low cable cross over, incline db press, chest flyers, db chest press for upper body

lat pulldown, shoulder shrugs, one arm db rows, low back machine/deadlift (I have joint pain, so sometimes I replace low back machine with deadlift), mid rows for upper too. Thats what i had been doing for a while, but not so sure how effective it is so another member has helped me with a new one.

Form is my number one concern more so than weight


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

enzo2311 said:


> chest press, seated dips, low cable cross over, incline db press, chest flyers, db chest press for upper body
> 
> lat pulldown, shoulder shrugs, one arm db rows, low back machine/deadlift (I have joint pain, so sometimes I replace low back machine with deadlift), mid rows for upper too. Thats what i had been doing for a while, but not so sure how effective it is so another member has helped me with a new one.
> 
> Form is my number one concern more so than weight


Sets and reps for each exercise?


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> So I usually drink a 1k calorie shake with whole milk, and throughout the day i probably drink about 5 cups of whole milk, with 2 waffles and syrup, a big bowl of cottage cheese, 2-3 Ensure's, 5-6 gatorades, a chicken breast, and an assortment of fruit and vegetables throughout the day. There are also other foods that I eat, but its random, maybe a few pretzel rolls here, or a chicken breast or two there.


And that's why you got fat...

Eat clean foods man


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Oh, and I assume you train the rest of your body too? And you do each workout once per week?

You want weight progression AND good form.


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## MBR (Feb 28, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> And that's why you got fat...
> 
> Eat clean foods man


/\ /\ take on board the advice you are getting. /\ /\


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## lew007 (Nov 7, 2003)

dannythinx said:


> Put it this way. A pound is 16 ounces. That's two 8 ounce steaks. That's a lot of meat. I honestly don't think you can put on a pound of lean 100% muscle a week. The weight will be made up of muscle, water, glycogen, and fat. Even on aas I don't think your body is capable of producing that much muscle tissue that quickly. Can you imagine how you'd look if you put on the equivalent of 20 cuts of sirloin so 10lbs of muscle?! You'd look like jay cutler after 3 cycles lol


thats how I see it too mate, good post. 10 rashers of bacon would be more achievable - making myself hungry


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

enzo2311 said:


> So I usually drink a 1k calorie shake with whole milk, and throughout the day i probably drink about 5 cups of whole milk, with 2 waffles and syrup, a big bowl of cottage cheese, 2-3 Ensure's, 5-6 gatorades, a chicken breast, and an assortment of fruit and vegetables throughout the day. There are also other foods that I eat, but its random, maybe a few pretzel rolls here, or a chicken breast or two there.


Do you track total calories and protein? You suggested earlier that you did, but now it sounds like you don't really have a plan as to how much you're eating?


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## Nuts (Aug 19, 2013)

enzo2311 said:


> So I usually drink a 1k calorie shake with whole milk, and throughout the day i probably drink about 5 cups of whole milk, with 2 waffles and syrup, a big bowl of cottage cheese, 2-3 Ensure's, 5-6 gatorades, a chicken breast, and an assortment of fruit and vegetables throughout the day. There are also other foods that I eat, but its random, maybe a few pretzel rolls here, or a chicken breast or two there.


do you track this? What are your calories per day and how are your macros split?


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## 1manarmy (Apr 22, 2012)

To me a proper bulk is clean calculated and restricted. Much like a diet. If you want the right results you need time and patience. This photo on the left was my stage condition bar water weight to drop and the right is 20 weeks later 9 kilos up still doing 30 mins cardio a day and still lean enough to look like a bodybuilder. This mis conception you can eat as much as you want of what you want is balls even on cycle


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Sets and reps for each exercise?


It was 3-4x8-10 but now its about 3x25 or 4x30



Ultrasonic said:


> Do you track total calories and protein? You suggested earlier that you did, but now it sounds like you don't really have a plan as to how much you're eating?


I just aim for 3500 calories and 160 grams protein


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> It was 3-4x8-10 but now its about 3x25 or 4x30


Going back to what you were doing would likely be more sensible. 15 reps is high reps for me, 20 at a push. So you do exactly the same sets an reps for every exercise? What do you train on what day of the week?

From a training POV I suspect you have been focusing on form to the detriment of weight progression personally.



> I just aim for 3500 calories and 160 grams protein


And what do you actually achieve on a daily basis? Do you work this out, at least roughly, each day?

Protein may be a bit low as you're assisted.


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## MBR (Feb 28, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> It was 3-4x8-10 but now its about 3x25 or 4x30
> 
> I just aim for 3500 calories and 160 grams protein


How do you know this is the correct mount of cals you should be eating per day?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Some exercises are more suited to lower reps BTW, and you can vary what you do accordingly. e.g. 4x6-8 of flat barbell bench press, but 3x12-15 for flys.


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## mr small (Apr 18, 2005)

After reading everyone the op has written what I take from it that it's a classic example of information overload, your obsession with different weight lifting matrix has clouded your vision and judging by your picture what ever you are doing is completely wrong ...I'm currently the same weight I've attached a pic and I'm 5'9 . Taking gear while your training and eating is clearly wrong will only compound the problem further for you , you need a really good PT for a few months get you a solid routine, I use a PT every few months to help me correct form and to help me push through that invisible barrier ...it has been worth every single penny .

You hoestly need pointed In the right direction and shown how to lift weights and eat properly


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## Jason Gray (Sep 4, 2015)

Starz said:


> Forget frozen dinners. get fresh meats & good sources of protein. You could very easily base a diet around the following;
> 
> Protein - Chicken, Beef, Turkey, Tuna, Eggs, Salmon to name a few.
> 
> ...


OP, I don't mean this to sound like a dickhead comment, but with the q's you're asking and if they require answers (while absolutely correct) from Starz as basic as the above then you seriously need to go and do some research and then come back. And gear shouldn't even be part of a conversation.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

MBR said:


> How do you know this is the correct mount of cals you should be eating per day?


My doctors told me i need to be eating that many



Ultrasonic said:


> Going back to what you were doing would likely be more sensible. 15 reps is high reps for me, 20 at a push. So you do exactly the same sets an reps for every exercise? What do you train on what day of the week?
> 
> From a training POV I suspect you have been focusing on form to the detriment of weight progression personally.
> 
> ...


Yes I do keep a rough estimate of how much I eat in terms of protein.


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## graham58 (Apr 7, 2013)

1manarmy said:


> are you on cycle? You were pressing the bar only and you are on cycle? I've heard of people not making full potential of their natural genetic limit but this is something else! Jesus Christ


unbelievable.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

enzo2311 said:


> My doctors told me i need to be eating that many


Why is a doctor telling you how many calories to eat?



> Yes I do keep a rough estimate of how much I eat in terms of protein.


But not calories? Total calories is what will determine your fat gain.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> isn't a pound a week something that someone who isn't on gear could achieve??
> 
> The he frozen dinners I get have 40 grams protein and 800 calories
> 
> if not not what can I do to help get in the extra calories needed?


You mean someone who isn't on gear can gain 52 pounds a year? or in 10 years gain 520 pounds? No.

Without gear you can gain maybe 20-30 pounds your first year, half of that your second year, and after a few years you can only put on 2-3 pounds a year.

40 grams of protein is 160 calories, and the other 640 calories in your frozen meal are s**t. And 40 grams probably isn't enough.

Get some fresh meat like steaks, chicken breast, salmon. In the time it takes to microwave your frozen dinner you can fry your own meat in coconut or olive oil and have a proper meal. Add some salad or some vegetables like broccoli, green beans, asparagus, kale, spinach, etc. These are OK to buy frozen, but the fresh ones taste better.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> My doctors told me i need to be eating that many
> 
> Yes I do keep a rough estimate of how much I eat in terms of protein.


This is a common misconception people have that doctors know everything. Doctors don't know s**t about diet and nutrition. It simply isn't taught in medical school.


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## Jason Gray (Sep 4, 2015)

Frandeman said:


> And that's why you got fat...
> 
> Eat clean foods man


Holy sh*t, whose diet you following, Vanessa Feltz's? Dude, seriously. You're probably only a few more waffles and Ensure's away from death. Frandeman put a seriously polite post in on that one!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> This is a common misconception people have that doctors know everything. Doctors don't know s**t about diet and nutrition. It simply isn't taught in medical school.


To be fair, no GP should be expected to have the first idea about calorie intake for a bodybuilder on gear. I struggle to believe any GP advised the OP to be eating 3500 kcal per day to be honest, which is why I asked for clarification. Unless it was advice from a friend who is a 'doctor' of some sort, rather than actual professional advice. But, only the OP can actually tell us.

Right now it doesn't sound like the OP is consistantly eating 3500 kcal per day anyway, so the number is somewhat moot I think.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

enzo2311 said:


> if I'm at a small caloric surplus or even a small caloric deficit *will I still have good gains *and will I have the ability to lose some of the fat I'm carrying? Will I continue building muscle?


I don't even know, how to answer you here tbh. @‌Frandeman summed sh1t up, accept during winter time, you wear a winter coat, but not too much of one. (Basically don't let yourself just get fat & eat like sh1t.) and come summertime, you can re-comp & tidy things up and start aiming to look leaner.



enzo2311 said:


> Yeah, like at that time I was just focusing on perfect form on the actual bar on the bench press, but now I can lift the bar plus 60 lb. (I know its not a lot, but I would focus on form more than anything). And my deadlifts are the same except I started later.


Really is shocking! how you or anyone, can decide to use gear, given such stats. I'll put it to you this way, I could cycle tomorrow or next week if I wanted, but I'm waiting till I hopefully have solid lifts prior.



Jason Gray said:


> OP, I don't mean this to sound like a dickhead comment, but with the q's you're asking and if they require answers (while absolutely correct) from Starz as basic as the above then you seriously need to go and do some research and then come back. And gear shouldn't even be part of a conversation.


I'm starting to think he's trolling tbh mate. he receives good advice from others and doesn't listen, so you're talking to a brick wall.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Starz said:


> I don't even know, how to answer you here tbh. @‌Frandeman summed sh1t up, accept during winter time, you wear a winter coat, but not too much of one. (Basically don't let yourself just get fat & eat like sh1t.) and come summertime, you can re-comp & tidy things up and start aiming to look leaner.
> 
> Really is shocking! how you or anyone, can decide to use gear, given such stats. I'll put it to you this way, I could cycle tomorrow or next week if I wanted, but I'm waiting till I hopefully have solid lifts prior.
> 
> I'm starting to think he's trolling tbh mate. he receives good advice from others and doesn't listen, so you're talking to a brick wall.


i'm not trolling.

If I get my diet straightened out, I'll notice more muscular gains . Correct? I already know I'm too early to start gear, but I don't really care. As long as i take the proper safety precautions (proper PCT, HCG, etc.) the only downfall of me using early is I'll need more and more of the test to have the same benefits. Which I'm fine with. My workout includes all the compound exercises that are the basis of most workout programs, plus additional isolating movements.


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## Pancake' (Aug 30, 2012)

enzo2311 said:


> i'm not trolling.
> 
> If I get my diet straightened out, I'll notice more muscular gains . Correct? I already know I'm too early to start gear, but I don't really care. As long as i take the proper safety precautions (proper PCT, HCG, etc.) *the only downfall of me using early is I'll need more and more of the test to have the same benefits. Which I'm fine with.* My workout includes all the compound exercises that are the basis of most workout programs, plus additional isolating movements.


Personally, I would take an IIFYM approach to dieting. simply because you're Ectomorph & your enhanced, so, I would say, you can afford to be that bit less lenient in terms of diet & eating super clean and because a little bit of junk food in the mix, will actually benefit you. help you reach caloric intake and you will be strong, whilst eating such food & because you naturally already possess a fast metabolism, training hard/cardio & busting your ass, will help you burn any slight fat gain. ratio of 80% Clean whole foods & 20% of Junk

To build & form Muscle, even assisted, you have to work hard consistently and I mean, well past your threshold & out your comfort zone. you don't care? mate... even with precautions & ''safe cycling'' well, safe-r, their is no guarantee. no, the downfall is relying on enhancing drugs too much to do the work for you mate. This is were you're going wrong and why other members have quoted for you to come off cycle. you can't just consistently up the dose. ever heard of diminishing returns? besides, you probably can't absorb or put good use to the drugs, because of many different factors. Genetics, Drug Response, Diet, Training, Training Experience, Overall Rest & their is more.

For you, right now, I suggest just concentrating on hard training & tracking your foods. I'd also recommend getting a P.T to push you, I think you need this.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

enzo2311 said:


> i'm not trolling.
> 
> If I get my diet straightened out, I'll notice more muscular gains . Correct?


Plenty will disagree but I'd say probably not. What you definitely can do is limit fat gain to a greater extent though.



> My workout includes all the compound exercises that are the basis of most workout programs, plus additional isolating movements.


A good training programme is not just a list of exercises. It is a set of exercises performed for appropriate sets and reps, using decent form, and crucially with weight progression being a major goal. How often you train each muscle, and how you structure each workout and your training throughout a week (or whatever block you use) matters too.

You never answered my questions about what you train when, or in fact if you do other exercises than those you stated? You mentioned no leg training, or specific arm training I think.

And what's the answer to my question about why a doctor advised you on your calorie consumption? Do you have a medical condition that is relevant?

I'm asking questions to try to help you here.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Muscle gains come slowly for a natural. In the first six months to a year most people will gain more muscle than at any other time unless they start juicing. A good rate of muscle gain for the first year would be 1lb a month or 12lbs for the year, after that 0.5lbs a month is about as good as it gets, so forget ideas of 1lb per week or 52lbs of muscle per year - that doesn't even happen with the best gear, diet, exercise and genetics combined - not dry retainable gains anyway.

In regards of how much total weight to aim at gaining you have to accept that some fat will be gained with the muscle, and some weight gain that is not fat mass is also not muscle either but also increased blood plasma volume, increased glycogen, and extra weight of food in the intestine as you eat more to gain.

A successful lean bulk where you gain as lean as you realistically can means starting from a relatively lean body fat percentage, ideally in the 10-12% range which is leaner than the average guy but not hard to maintain, and gaining muscle and fat at the same ratio so that although you get heavier and do add some fat your body fat percentage doesn't go up.

in real terms this would mean that if you started at say 12% body fat, of every ten pounds you add, 1.2lbs would be fat and 8.8lbs non fat mass.

If you aim therefore to gain 10lbs bodyweight per year with a continued lean bulk that would see you gain the rough target of 6lbs of solid muscle, maybe a bit more if you've trained well, plus some extra non fat mass and a little extra fat but not enough to alter your overall body fat percentage very much - and broken down monthly that's an overall gain of just under 1lb total body weight per month.

That sounds pathetically slow, but I assure you the difference in appearance of someone at 150lbs and 12% and 160lbs at 12% over a year is very obvious and with another ten lbs to 170 over two years a huge visual difference.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

dtlv said:


> Muscle gains come slowly for a natural. In the first six months to a year most people will gain more muscle than at any other time unless they start juicing. A good rate of muscle gain for the first year would be 1lb a month or 12lbs for the year, after that 0.5lbs a month is about as good as it gets, so forget ideas of 1lb per week or 52lbs of muscle per year - that doesn't even happen with the best gear, diet, exercise and genetics combined - not dry retainable gains anyway.
> 
> In regards of how much total weight to aim at gaining you have to accept that some fat will be gained with the muscle, and some weight gain that is not fat mass is also not muscle either but also increased blood plasma volume, increased glycogen, and extra weight of food in the intestine as you eat more to gain.
> 
> ...


he's on gear...


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Plenty will disagree but I'd say probably not. What you definitely can do is limit fat gain to a greater extent though.
> 
> A good training programme is not just a list of exercises. It is a set of exercises performed for appropriate sets and reps, using decent form, and crucially with weight progression being a major goal. How often you train each muscle, and how you structure each workout and your training throughout a week (or whatever block you use) matters too.
> 
> ...


I have Cystic Fibrosis which causes issues with the absorption of food and their nutrients

Yes I train legs.

Squats, deadlifts, leg extensions and leg curls and calve raises and leg press. I add in an arm exercise or two on my chest and back day.

When I train in high reps I really feel a burn towards the last few until i can't handle it then i wait a few seconds and do it again, i don't get the same burn from low reps i just get exhausted, mentally speaking.

Whenever I began to stall on my weights. I would start all over again, and i stalled about 3-4x since march. Thats why my lifts are s**t too .

I don't know why my lifts stall so much. but when they do i just start over with 5 lb on each side of the barbell.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> I have Cystic Fibrosis which causes issues with the absorption of food and their nutrients
> 
> Yes I train legs.
> 
> ...


Push harder you are on gear puss y


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Well when you put on fat you look less defined, it's pretty easy to tell!

In your situation I'd just concentrate on lifting some heavy weights and not worry about how you look, I don't know any guys that can lift big that are small, and once you've got a bit of muscle then worry about getting lean.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

Enzo get in the gym mate and lift some heavy weights lets see what happens haha...


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## MBR (Feb 28, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> I have Cystic Fibrosis which causes issues with the absorption of food and their nutrients
> 
> Yes I train legs.
> 
> ...


You are not going to develop the physique you are after, if every time you ''stall'' you ''start over'' and lift with just 5lb on each side of the bar. Your lifts should be increasing not decreasing and you should be training this way whether you are using or not. Also it sounds like what gear you are using is bunk.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

MBR said:


> You are not going to develop the physique you are after, if every time you ''stall'' you ''start over'' and lift with just 5lb on each side of the bar. Your lifts should be increasing not decreasing and you should be training this way whether you are using or not. Also it sounds like what gear you are using is bunk.


Shree Venkatesh Testosterone Enanthate. That wasn't during the use of gear, I haven't stalled yet


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

on gear

trains 4x30 rep scheme

resets to 5lb weight on the bar everytime it gets a bit hard.

eats ready meals and waffles all day

has narcolepsy, add and now cystic fibrosis with resting heart rate of 100bpm (but this is ok cos he thinks it will help him burn fat off easily).

still ignored every single piece of good advice given to him regarding training, eating and gear after numerous threads and posts on the same subject

for fvck sake gonzo, get with the program.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Grrr - quotes on Tapatalk are a nightmare!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

I wrote a longer reply that got messed up, so briefly:

If you weren't using gear during the period on the photos that explains the lack of progress. To gain natty you need to train far more effectively than you have been. (On gear you can gain on a diet like yours and zero training, although that won't anything like maximise your gains!)

Research cystic fibrosis to learn more about how diet changes may help you. This is not an area I know anything about.

You don't need a burn to grow (I pretty much never get a burn). Heavier, lower rep work won't give you a burn, but it will be more effective at stimulating muscle growth. That's not to say pump work is useless by any means, but 30 rep sets is taking things too far, and in your position increasing how much weight you can lift would be my priority.

You need to get back to basics. Following Stronglifts for a couple of months would probably be a good idea for you, to get you more on the right track.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Feeling the burn means nothing! Because you can't feel it doesnt mean it's not effective! Stick to a proven body building routine rather than something you 'think' and I mean think makes your body grow because that's been working well so far....

your diet on one hand you say involves a snack or two of a chicken breast and ready meals... That's not a decent diet no matter how you sugar coat it, so far you've done nowt for your body but get fat and grown very little muscle... So it's time to carry on as you are, pack up body building or listen to the folks on here! I'll give you a clue... I'd do the latter and workout you've been (in fact are being by ignoring everyone and arguing!) a douche and start to learn about growing properly...


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## Brook877 (May 16, 2012)

enzo2311 said:


> Whenever I began to stall on my weights. I would start all over again, and i stalled about 3-4x since march. Thats why my lifts are s**t too .
> 
> I don't know why my lifts stall so much. but when they do i just start over with 5 lb on each side of the barbell.


One of the main aim of training is progressive overload, you have to lift outside of your comfort zone and force yourself to grow stronger to manage what you're asking your body to lift.

If you keep resetting your weights you'll never get any stronger.

I dare say this thread reads harsh, but you're doing everything wrong, your training is ineffective, your gear use is unnecessary and your diet lazy and judging by your fat gains, excessive.


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## lew007 (Nov 7, 2003)

Can't belive the amount of time decent knowelable members have taken (wasted) to post thier helpful replys for this muppet.

I know we all started somewhere but this kid is just messed up, given all current health concerns should he even lift?


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

lew007 said:


> Can't belive the amount of time decent knowelable members have taken (wasted) to post thier helpful replys for this muppet.
> 
> I know we all started somewhere but this kid is just messed up, given all current health concerns should he even lift?


If I don't take special pills with meals, I am unable to digest the nutrients from food. Which causes malnutrition which then effects everything as they have less nutrients, growth, health, etc.


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## A1243R (Nov 2, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> If I don't take special pills with meals, I am unable to digest the nutrients from food. Which causes malnutrition which then effects everything as they have less nutrients, growth, health, etc.


Do we think this is @HDU in disguise @Heavyassweights! I am very suspicious.


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

A1243R said:


> Do we think this is @HDU in disguise @Heavyassweights! I am very suspicious.


who knows mate, after @Skye666 bailed out on putting up a face pic anything is possible on here.


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Heavyassweights said:


> who knows mate, after @Skye666 bailed out on putting up a face pic anything is possible on here.


it wasn't a bail out it was a conscious decision 

i always think ashcrapper is bonzo...who knows


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Skye666 said:


> it wasn't a bail out it was a conscious decision
> 
> i always think ashcrapper is bonzo...who knows


ill put up a pic if you do


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## Skye666 (Apr 13, 2013)

Heavyassweights said:


> ill put up a pic if you do


lol don't start again....listen I would put decent money on not one guy on here being true to his word not one..but as I said to plate......u first :thumb:


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

Skye666 said:


> it wasn't a bail out it was a conscious decision
> 
> i always think ashcrapper is bonzo...who knows


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## lew007 (Nov 7, 2003)

Skye666 said:


> lol don't start again....listen I would put decent money on not one guy on here being true to his word not one..but as I said to plate......u first :thumb:


i am.... Pay up


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

> lol don't start again....listen I would put decent money on not one guy on here being *true to his word* not one..but as I said to plate......u first :thumb:


I am..... why would one not be?


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

A1243R said:


> Do we think this is @HDU in disguise @Heavyassweights! I am very suspicious.


it's called Creon. I have to take about 40 a day and a bottle of 500 costs around $2,000. Look it up


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> it's called Creon. I have to take about 40 a day and a bottle of 500 costs around $2,000. Look it up


maybe you could take twice as many and you will get even more nutrients from your food, think about it, that's twice the gains bro. In fact they sound good for nutrient partitioning, where can I get me some. Just think twice the gains in half the time.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> maybe you could take twice as many and you will get even more nutrients from your food, think about it, that's twice the gains bro. In fact they sound good for nutrient partitioning, where can I get me some. Just think twice the gains in half the time.


Thats not how they work. Theyre measured in lipase, amylase, and protease enzymes, but the hardest thing for my body to digest is fat. Butter, whole milk, ice cream, etc. If I eat fatty foods with my enzymes I suffer lactose interplant type effects. Under those circumstances, I don't understand how I can be so fat. People with CF are malnourished looking and can hardly gain a pound, but its not as difficult for me. Gear has made weight gain extremely easy though.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

enzo2311 said:


> Thats not how they work. Theyre measured in lipase, amylase, and protease enzymes, but the hardest thing for my body to digest is fat. Butter, whole milk, ice cream, etc. If I eat fatty foods with my enzymes I suffer lactose interplant type effects. Under those circumstances, I don't understand how I can be so fat. People with CF are malnourished looking and can hardly gain a pound, but its not as difficult for me. Gear has made weight gain extremely easy though.


just take more of your Ritalin, that's sure to help keep the fat off. Maybe take like a handful per day along with your dbol, in fact im wondering if there was someway to make it injectable, that would totally work. You should definitely try it. Maybe make another thread asking if anyone knows how to do it.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> just take more of your Ritalin, that's sure to help keep the fat off. Maybe take like a handful per day along with your dbol, in fact im wondering if there was someway to make it injectable, that would totally work. You should definitely try it. Maybe make another thread asking if anyone knows how to do it.


why are you being an asshole ?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

> Thats not how they work. Theyre measured in lipase, amylase, and protease enzymes, but the hardest thing for my body to digest is fat. Butter, whole milk, ice cream, etc. If I eat fatty foods with my enzymes I suffer lactose interplant type effects. Under those circumstances, I don't understand how I can be so fat. People with CF are malnourished looking and can hardly gain a pound, but its not as difficult for me. Gear has made weight gain extremely easy though.


That mostly sounds like good news from your point of view.

From here I'd say you need to:

1) Sort your training out.

2) Keep an eye on your fat gain and adjust total calories accordingly. Since you're now using gear you may find that the calories that previously made you gain fat are now fine.

From a health POV, and you looked into any additional specific risks of using gear for someone with your health issues and taking the other medications that you are? And bear in mind that if you sort your training out you would be able to make some gains without using gear.


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> That mostly sounds like good news from your point of view.
> 
> From here I'd say you need to:
> 
> ...


Right now I'm only using testosterone. Many people with CF use testosterone medically as its warranted, I was on the low end of the scale but my doctors said not trt.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Out of curiousity, if it's mainly fat you have trouble absorbing have you had a discussion with your doctor about whether a lower fat, higher carb diet would be more appropriate?


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

> why are you being an asshole ?


lol.

At 20yrs old you should be full of health and vitality, the way you are carrying on you will end up fat and unhealthy, you really are doing everything wrong (ppl have tried to tell you this, over and over again) and need to re-access what you're doing, how you're doing it and why you're doing it.


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## p.cullen (Jun 6, 2014)

clearly a troll....well played youv got half of ukm biting


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## enzo2311 (Jul 8, 2015)

Ultrasonic said:


> Out of curiousity, if it's mainly fat you have trouble absorbing have you had a discussion with your doctor about whether a lower fat, higher carb diet would be more appropriate?


my doctors and dietician have always encouraged fatty meals. I asked them what I can do to get a good physique and they just said eat and lift, that's it. If I did a low fat diet, I would just have to avoid taking my enzymes with fatty foods and the fat will pass right through me undigested and exit as an oily substance. My dad has always tried to get me to eat fatty foods like fast food while my mom has always been a stickler about healthy foods.



ILLBehaviour said:


> lol.
> 
> At 20yrs old you should be full of health and vitality, the way you are carrying on you will end up fat and unhealthy, you really are doing everything wrong (ppl have tried to tell you this, over and over again) and need to re-access what you're doing, how you're doing it and why you're doing it.


I was born with my medical conditions. All people have been saying is get off gear and calling me a troll, no troll would go through the time and effort to write these long posts.

I've began eating nothing but healthy foods. And although I train in high reps I do increase the weight. I eat unhealthy foods so I can get in as many calories as possible. If I were to eat at a deficit I wouldn't want to lose muscle. My main issue is getting in enough calories because I don't have an appetite. I've followed the strong lifts routine, but quickly found myself constantly stalling. That was the first thing I did when I started working out which was 4 years ago. Since then I was skipping through different working trying to see changes.


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## rimajo (Sep 3, 2015)

But if your bodyweight is certainly going upwards straight away it can be excess fat. But if your bodyweight is certainly going upwards even so the bodyweight the training is not it can be excess fat.


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