# Periodising Volume and Frequency?



## bunnykilla (Jul 9, 2005)

Hi Guys,

I've been reading about periodising lately and I thought I'd give it a go in 2006 which led to HST (I'm on my first HST cycle now).

I've also read an article in Keys to Progress whick got me thinking about volume and frequency periodising, the article increased volume and frequency every month for 3 months, I thought that might be a bit too long but came up with this.

eg

two weeks low

two weeks medium

two weeks high

Lets say

*Week 1 and 2* full body workout

M,W,F (standard stuff)

*Week 3 and 4*, upper, lower split

Mon workout A

Tues workout B

Wed off

Thurs workout A

Fri workout B

Sat off

Sun off

*Weeks 3 and 4*

Mon workout A

Tues workout B

Wed workout A

Thurs workout B

Fri workout A

Sat workout B

Sun off

Is it feasible with the correct no of exercise and reps and sets?

Phil


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Periodisation is the key to continual gains, especially for advanced trainees.

I suggest you use a tried and tested method however, and load for around 4 weeks ramping up the volume, and then deload for a couple of weeks with lower volume before ramping up with intensity at the low volume.


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## bunnykilla (Jul 9, 2005)

Do you have any specific names, HST doesn't increase volume just the weight, I'm looking for hypertrophy.

Or it just a case of adding extra sets on the basic compounds as the weeks progress? then dropping them back after week four?

Phil


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

bunnykilla said:


> Do you have any specific names, HST doesn't increase volume just the weight, I'm looking for hypertrophy.
> 
> Or it just a case of adding extra sets on the basic compounds as the weeks progress? then dropping them back after week four?
> 
> Phil


No, you increase the load, not necessarily the volume. That is, you COULD increase the volume, or the weight, or both. I generally go for moderate volume when loading, but keeping it constant, while increasing the weight each week. I then go for low volume for the deload, and stick to the low volume while increasing the weight for the intensity phase.

An example might be to do this while loading for 4 weeks:

Mon-Squats 5x5, Rows 5x5

Wed-Bench 5x5, OHP 5x5

Fri-Squats 5x5, Chins 5x5

As you can see, the volume is moderate (10 sets per workout, 3 times a week) and the work is based purely around core lifts NOT done to failure (this enables us to squat twice a week in the volume phase). After 4 weeks of this, starting off light, increasing the weight each session, you will be at the brink of overtraining. That's the time to deload. We drop down to a lighter volume, keeping the weights the same as the 5x5, but drop down to 3 reps, and drop down to two sessions a week:

Mon-Squats 3x3, Rows 3x3

Thu-Bench 3x3, OHP 1x3, Chins 1x3

You then continue to increase the weights each week, giving you the intensity loading. Once you hit a wall on the intensity phase, you could test your maxes and then go back to the volume phase (or perhaps spend a week doing lighter assistance work if you need an additional deload). The rebound effect from the near-overtraining of the volume phase will multiply the gains you will get from the intensity phase.

So for example, taking the Monday squat session, you might do this:

Volume Phase:

Week 1 - 140kgx5x5 (this should feel easy)

Week 2 - 145kgx5x5

Week 3 - 150kgx5x5 (this will be where your previous 5x5 max was - usually the same as your 8RM)

Week 4 - 155kgx5x5 (this will push you just past your previous best)

Deload:

Week 5 - 155kgx3x3 (keep the weight the same but reduce the overall load and frequency for a deload)

Intensity Phase:

Week 6 - 160kgx3x3

Week 7 - 165kgx3x3

Week 8 - 170kgx3x3

You might then test your maxes, and then start again with the 5x5 with (say) 145-150kg in your first week.

This is dual factor training (incorporating loading, deloading and periodisation). It will give you extremely good strength gains, and if you're eating enough, the mass gains will be huge too. However, it is intended for intermediate-advanced trainees who already have a good strength base. MOST more junior lifters (I class these as people who cannot yet deadlift twice their bodyweight) would be better off on a low volume single factor program which will allow them to increase the weight each week. Extremely advanced trainees should be doing a conjugated periodisation program (such as WSB), as the heavy weights they will be lifting are likely NOT to allow them to do that much volume without killing themselves on week 1 of the volume phase.


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## bunnykilla (Jul 9, 2005)

Thats a great post, very informative, cheers Big.

Well wrote, easy to understand.

I'm even tempted to print that off and keep it.

Phil


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Man, I am gonna rip this one off

Of course I will leave big as the author.

Big, I am impressed, very well written, beautifal post.

Best I have seen in awhile.

Reps for this one for sure.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Impressive to say the least. Well done big.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Big, you should write something up and put a stickie in the advanced BB section of the board.

That is a very well written post.

Maybe something that explains periodising, deloading, volume, intensity.

That would be a keeper for sure.


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## Stv_BABES (May 1, 2004)

big said:


> No, you increase the load, ..........
> 
> An example might be to do this while loading for 4 weeks:
> 
> ...


quality advice as always bro.

no D/Ls in the routine? you consider this as over kill?

if they were to be added, which exercises would you remove to place it in? and on which of the days?

or would you consider alternating between the D/L and say rows/chins?

also, what is the rest time between the sets on 5x5, plus rest time between each exercise?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Stv_BABES said:


> quality advice as always bro.
> 
> no D/Ls in the routine? you consider this as over kill?
> 
> ...


Yes, there are no deads in that routine for two reasons:

* Deads are extremely hard to recover from, and with this much volume/frequency of squatting (which is the key of the program and the best way IMO to load), you risk overtraining.

* Squatting heavy will generally increase your deadlift anyway for most trainees without actually deadlifting. If you take a look at MOST (granted not all) of the best deadlifters, they tend to deadlift extremely infrequently. An example is WSB, in which the lifters only deadlift once every 8 weeks (whereas they squat 1-2 times a week - box squats every week and regular squats approximately every other week on top of that), yet they're setting deadlift PRs each time.

If you wanted deads in there desperately, you could either replace one of the squat sessions with deads (although I genuinely believe for most people, loading with squats is more effective), or you could swap out rows and do 3x5 on deads instead (given this routine is designed for people deadlifting greater than 2x bodyweight, I highly recommend NOT trying to do 5x5 on an exercise as demanding as deads at that weight).

As far as rest periods go, take what you need, but try to be consistent across weeks and don't take so long that you end up being cold. Remember that we are looking for strength gains here, not trying to get a pump or whack through the session as quickly as possible. Typically I would suggest 3-4 minutes for upper body exercises, and 4-5 minutes for the squats. However, if you don't need that long, don't take that long.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Big, you should write something up and put a stickie in the advanced BB section of the board.
> 
> That is a very well written post.
> 
> ...


Thanks dude, much appreciated. I will sort something out as a sticky


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## Stv_BABES (May 1, 2004)

big said:


> Yes, there are no deads in that routine for two reasons:
> 
> * Deads are extremely hard to recover from, and with this much volume/frequency of squatting (which is the key of the program and the best way IMO to load), you risk overtraining.
> 
> * Squatting heavy will generally increase your deadlift anyway for most trainees without actually deadlifting. ..................


cheers m8.

im sweet with dropping the DLs, i accept the squats should be the staple of the routine.

you settled my curiosity

ill be following up dual factor training in the future AND seeking your advice


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Stv_BABES said:


> cheers m8.
> 
> im sweet with dropping the DLs, i accept the squats should be the staple of the routine.
> 
> ...


Good luck dude, and hit me up for advice any time 

I know you're gaining well on deads right now, so stick with your single factor minimal routine with the deads in there while you're still gaining and switch to dual factor once you stall like we discussed


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

hackskii said:


> Big, you should write something up and put a stickie in the advanced BB section of the board.
> 
> That is a very well written post.
> 
> ...


Here you go dude:

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11964

I have explained the key concepts behind the program and have also included the sample Dual Factor program which I wrote out above.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Again, not trying to sound redundent, but nice read big!


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

big-quote-

No, you increase the load, not necessarily the volume. That is, you COULD increase the volume, or the weight, or both. I generally go for moderate volume when loading, but keeping it constant, while increasing the weight each week. I then go for low volume for the deload, and stick to the low volume while increasing the weight for the intensity phase.

An example might be to do this while loading for 4 weeks:

Mon-Squats 5x5, Rows 5x5

Wed-Bench 5x5, OHP 5x5

Fri-Squats 5x5, Chins 5x5

As you can see, the volume is moderate (10 sets per workout, 3 times a week) and the work is based purely around core lifts NOT done to failure (this enables us to squat twice a week in the volume phase). After 4 weeks of this, starting off light, increasing the weight each session, you will be at the brink of overtraining. That's the time to deload. We drop down to a lighter volume, keeping the weights the same as the 5x5, but drop down to 3 reps, and drop down to two sessions a week:

Mon-Squats 3x3, Rows 3x3

Thu-Bench 3x3, OHP 1x3, Chins 1x3

You then continue to increase the weights each week, giving you the intensity loading. Once you hit a wall on the intensity phase, you could test your maxes and then go back to the volume phase (or perhaps spend a week doing lighter assistance work if you need an additional deload). The rebound effect from the near-overtraining of the volume phase will multiply the gains you will get from the intensity phase.

So for example, taking the Monday squat session, you might do this:

Volume Phase:

Week 1 - 140kgx5x5 (this should feel easy)

Week 2 - 145kgx5x5

Week 3 - 150kgx5x5 (this will be where your previous 5x5 max was - usually the same as your 8RM)

Week 4 - 155kgx5x5 (this will push you just past your previous best)

Deload:

Week 5 - 155kgx3x3 (keep the weight the same but reduce the overall load and frequency for a deload)

Intensity Phase:

Week 6 - 160kgx3x3

Week 7 - 165kgx3x3

Week 8 - 170kgx3x3

You might then test your maxes, and then start again with the 5x5 with (say) 145-150kg in your first week.

This is dual factor training (incorporating loading, deloading and periodisation). It will give you extremely good strength gains, and if you're eating enough, the mass gains will be huge too. However, it is intended for intermediate-advanced trainees who already have a good strength base. MOST more junior lifters (I class these as people who cannot yet deadlift twice their bodyweight) would be better off on a low volume single factor program which will allow them to increase the weight each week. Extremely advanced trainees should be doing a conjugated periodisation program (such as WSB), as the heavy weights they will be lifting are likely NOT to allow them to do that much volume without killing themselves on week 1 of the volume phase.

isnt this abbreviated training-it sounds very similar to BRAWN-which is what my training is based on-works!


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

crazycal1 said:


> isnt this abbreviated training-it sounds very similar to BRAWN-which is what my training is based on-works!


Abbreviated training is just less volume than more "standard" bodybuilding routines and works extremely well.

The training on Brawn is single factor, not dual factor. That's not to say it doesn't work well - in fact I highly recommend it for most trainees.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Awsome thread, awsome read!


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

*winger, are you hacksii's twin, same boat. t-shirt, bins etc. Had to do a double take then...lol*


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

big quote :

The training on Brawn is single factor, not dual factor. That's not to say it doesn't work well - in fact I highly recommend it for most trainees.

hey dude what do you mean by single and dual factor?


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

crazycal1 said:


> hey dude what do you mean by single and dual factor?


Take a read of the dual factor link in my sig.

Essentially single factor expects full recovery between workouts and strength gain in a linear fashion. This is fine for all but quite advanced trainees. Dual factor doesn't expect full recovery between workouts and requires an accumulation of fatigue. When you deload, the recovery from the cumulative fatigue will be greater than recovery from a single workout, and you'll gain a whole heap of strength. Essentially with dual factor, your gains come in planned waves and you have to back off at times.

That's it in a nutshell, but the link explains it in more detail.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

cheers that makes sense-i`ll turn on the signatures from now on


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

robsta9 said:


> *winger, are you hacksii's twin, same boat. t-shirt, bins etc. Had to do a double take then...lol*


We are Identical Twins.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

*That explains it then..*


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

*Who owns the boat??*


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Oh, we were on that boat to go to Catalina Island to burry my Mom at sea.

This was her request.

Catalina Island is 28 miles from the Coast of Long Beach California.

We met with all the brothers (3), relatives and honored her request.

We had a good time although It was a difficult thing to do.

I really miss my Mom but I dont think she would want me to griev too much.

She would want me to move on and have a happy life.

She died of cancer and was in alot of pain.

Wierd but somtimes I have dreams about here and we have these huge converstions on life, then I wake up and think she is still around.

Our family is very close and Steve and myself are closer than any people I have ever known.

He is my best friend and my inspiration. I think the world of him and I love no body more than him.

He is a good man.

Guess you can tell we are close huh?

I have other pictures on the boat but everybody is crying so I dont post those, even though you can see us well.


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

big said:


> MOST more junior lifters (I class these as people who cannot yet deadlift twice their bodyweight) would be better off on a low volume single factor program which will allow them to increase the weight each week.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

mrmasive said:


> Where can this info be found?
> 
> Ref the dual factor training method, how long should this be done before going back to a more conventional program and is it kept the same whilst using AAS??


The info can be found in the two links in my sig. The first "How to Grow" explains a simple low volume linear program which most lifters can get great gains off. The second link explains dual factor training.

Regarding the dual factor training method, keep doing it indefinitely in cycles. There is no need to go back to a conventional program - in fact it may be counter-productive to do so.

Regarding AAS, yes, the core of the program is kept the same while on juice - although you MIGHT be able to load a bit harder (ramp up the weights a bit more aggressively). But for any program, what works well naturally will work better while on juice - you shouldn't screw with a program that works for you just because you're taking steroids. Just be sure to be deloading (or in a low volume period) if you come off of steroids. You definitely DON'T want to be loading while your test levels are suppressed and you're off gear.


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

Thanks big,

Brief training history

Ive been training seriously since may 01, competed as a natural twice (sept 01 & sept 02) at 9st 7lbs and the 10st 10lbs. I followed Mike Mentzer style training throughout and up untill Nov 04 when I decided to use a more standard way of training up untill now.

Started using AAS in June 04 at 11st 7lbs ish and I got up to 14st 12lbs in Dec 05 @ 23% BF, I have now cut that down to 14st 2lbs @ 17%. I have done 6 cycles in that time and have been clean since Dec 05.

I dont do Deadlift (no real reason) so not sure if I can lift twice my weight, I used to do 120kg when I competed for the second time.......

So with that in mind, would you recommend that I follow the info in 'How to grow'????

Thanks for the info big

(sorry about hijacking this thread)


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I would try it. I also have done my fair share of H.I.T. and made good gains aswell. I just recently tried volume traing and made really good gains. Basically if you keep the body guessing you will continue to grow.

I would give the dual factor training a go mate and keep us posted!


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

mrmasive said:


> Thanks big,
> 
> Brief training history
> 
> ...


Yes, you would grow fine using the "How to Grow" prinicples, assuming you're starting off comfortably with the weights, adding weight to the bar each week, and are boatloading the protein.

Essentially the best training method is the one you're currently gaining from. As SOON as you stop gaining, you need to change something, but as long as you're still gaining from a routine, stay on it.


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

big said:


> Yes, you would grow fine using the "How to Grow" prinicples, assuming you're starting off comfortably with the weights, adding weight to the bar each week, and are boatloading the protein.
> 
> Essentially the best training method is the one you're currently gaining from. As SOON as you stop gaining, you need to change something, but as long as you're still gaining from a routine, stay on it.


Ok thanks bud, if I were to give the 'How to grow' a shot and I eat clean and slightly above maintenance then I will still grow and shed a bit of fat with the help of AAS and adjusting along the way etc as the diet will dictate what BF%, am I right????


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

mrmasive said:


> Ok thanks bud, if I were to give the 'How to grow' a shot and I eat clean and slightly above maintenance then I will still grow and shed a bit of fat with the help of AAS and adjusting along the way etc as the diet will dictate what BF%, am I right????


Absolutely. Diet is the key to bodyfat reduction.

If you're looking to gain mass and shed fat at the same time, take a read of some of the carb cycling posts that guys like Tom B and Paul S. If you're wanting to do both simultaneously (which is actually a good idea IMO assuming you're relatively lean already and have some reasonable mass behind you), you want to get yourself into calorie surplus by adding carbs around the times you train (especially right afterwards), but remain in a slight deficit the rest of the time. In effect, this is a timed carb diet.


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## mrmasive (Dec 30, 2005)

big said:


> Absolutely. Diet is the key to bodyfat reduction.
> 
> If you're looking to gain mass and shed fat at the same time, take a read of some of the carb cycling posts that guys like Tom B and Paul S. If you're wanting to do both simultaneously (which is actually a good idea IMO assuming you're relatively lean already and have some reasonable mass behind you), you want to get yourself into calorie surplus by adding carbs around the times you train (especially right afterwards), but remain in a slight deficit the rest of the time. In effect, this is a timed carb diet.


Thanks, actually I have just read pscarbs log about carb cycling, just waiting for him to complete the week so I can copy his diet to the letter as I am about the same weight although A slightly higher BF%...  (I just hope he posts it up as he has been doing as I am also interested to see what he eats and when according to his training)


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Bump.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

On gear I have yet to see a person not make gains. So how can a person say one routine is better than another while taking aas?


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