# Brawn venom 2.0 pre-workout review! (Amp citrate)



## shak90 (Jun 14, 2015)

got a free sample today, always wanted to try the new amp citrate from hearing so many good review, new dmaa etc. The taste was absolutely horrific!! almost couldnt drink it, taste like drinking a bottle of aftershave, strong solvent taste! but apart from that, holy ****... best workout i have ever had! super clean focus and stamina, crazy pump and recovery between sets was incredible! had no jitters or crazy, no rapid heart rate or stomach aches! no side affects at all! just wanted to train all night, was able to push through pain as if it was nothing!! i have tried dmaa and i have to say that this stuff seems a much smoother and cleaner version and would choose it over dmaa any day!! give it a go for sure!! it is already underfire in the usa from the fda because it hasn't been studied on humans and not found in nature etc buy just go get some and try it, would recommend getting pill form as powder taste unbearable


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## Chrisallan (Jul 11, 2014)

shak90 said:


> got a free sample today, always wanted to try the new amp citrate from hearing so many good review, new dmaa etc. The taste was absolutely horrific!! almost couldnt drink it, taste like drinking a bottle of aftershave, strong solvent taste! but apart from that, holy ****... best workout i have ever had! super clean focus and stamina, crazy pump and recovery between sets was incredible! had no jitters or crazy, no rapid heart rate or stomach aches! no side affects at all! just wanted to train all night, was able to push through pain as if it was nothing!! i have tried dmaa and i have to say that this stuff seems a much smoother and cleaner version and would choose it over dmaa any day!! give it a go for sure!! it is already underfire in the usa from the fda because it hasn't been studied on humans and not found in nature etc buy just go get some and try it, would recommend getting pill form as powder taste unbearable


It's excellent.

I agree with you on the taste,it's ****ing horrific!!

It leaves an after taste for ages,too,but it's well worth it.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

hi guys,

i am the formulator of the product, glad you like it. i hope there will be no problems, it is not sold in the US so maybe that could prevent it from being made.

thing is, there is ideas for the future for another preworkout, not soon, maybe end of the year, which will contain an insanely large amount of performance enhancing ingredients. this is not the end, brawn is progressing and the new product will be incredible, end of july you will see the best on cycle support and nutrient partitioner to ever hit the market yet.

in germany it is already an absolute favourite with dozens of poeple thanking me for making these products, working on tiny profit margins, as my interest doesn't lay in making huge money but the best products for the customer and myself to use as well of course.

i will never touch another pre besides venom and the things that i stack it with, which i hope to one day include into a slightly different base, giving the same euphoria and lack of sides with even more energy and especially huge strength gains.

edit: btw, in a few weeks there will be a new version without sulbutiamine, which is responsible for the taste, it will contain a special citrus-aurantium extract which is not standardized to synephrine. the feel is similar to ephedrine but cleaner and without a crash. taste should actually be good then.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Not tried this but amp c is amazing stuff


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

unfortunately you cannot find venom in pill form. you can find amp-citrate and caffeine as in amp-c but theres is much more to venom. it modulates neurotransmitters in a ver specific way, creating a mix of noradrenaline, a little dopamine, serotonine and endorphins, which together creates the feeling of well being and endless stamina.

the special extracts in it like sensoril prevent sides and a crash and even provide protection to the cns. this means instead of burning you out is actually improves once ability to recover physicallly and mentally.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

please put any reviews in here guys. one other guy loved it and one said he got nothing. i would like to see more feedback.


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## rb79 (Mar 7, 2012)

any free samples going ? I wouldn't mind giving it a try as im on the lookout for a new pre workout


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

in 2 weeks there will be 10k samples with retailers of the better tasting version, right now 1k samples have been given to retailers of the current version.

the chance you won't like it is quite low though. most reviews look similar to the one in this thread.


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## Wheyman (Sep 6, 2011)

cant you send us a sample


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Neuroscience said:


> in 2 weeks there will be 10k samples with retailers of the better tasting version, right now 1k samples have been given to retailers of the current version.
> 
> the chance you won't like it is quite low though. most reviews look similar to the one in this thread.


Who's stocking it in UK?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

normally powermyself, but they are out, new better tastign version should be here in 2 weeks though. besides that, actually just ask them, as they know more about where and who and what about brawn, i just make the formulas and get a little comission. production costs are very high for these as i wanna make products that really work, so there are no huge profit margins.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

you could alway order from gigasnutrition, i am sure they ship all over europe and the price is not too bad either.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

Wheyman said:


> cant you send us a sample


sorry, i don't have anything to do with production, i will get a few tubs for myself free when it arrives but i don't have samples to distribute in the UK. if anything they would send me samples to give to retailers or gym buddies here in germany, but you will be able to get a sample soon at anyy store that carries it i am sure, considering there will be 10k of them. maybe some larger orders even get a few more, but i don't know the details.


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## musclehercules (Nov 17, 2010)

Hopefully the new version tastes better. Couldnt take the current one. Had to give it to my buddy who tossed it to another person cause he couldnt stand the taste also.


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

musclehercules said:


> Hopefully the new version tastes better. Couldnt take the current one. Had to give it to my buddy who tossed it to another person cause he couldnt stand the taste also.


The taste is like a chemistry set and topped up with battery acid


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

@TELBOR maybe you could put your review in here mate


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

G-man99 said:


> @TELBOR maybe you could put your review in here mate


Agree with what the OP says.

Apart from the crash, ruined my day lol

Taste - RANK!

Strength & Stamina - Great!

Pump - Great!

Focus - Great!

Come down - awful!

Fuzzy head and zero appetite rest of the day.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

strange, you are one of the first that mentions a crash. most feel refreshed, hungry and sleep well and experience cognitive improvements in day to day life due to the neuroprotective and cortisol reducing effects.

funny how a few feel barely anything, most love it with no sides, and somebody else gets a crash. just mentioning it, as you are the first to report one really.

that was the funny part that the few who didn't think it did much at least had no sides. so all in all from all feedback most love it with no crash but would like a bit more pump.

very few do not feel much. some can't drink it (which will be solved as it is only one ingredient that does that and nobody in the world could make a product with it taste okay). 2 weeks max now i hope for the version with better taste and sulbutiamine being replaced with citrus-aurantium extract, standardized not to synephrine but a compound that will rival a low-moderate dose of ephedrine but without the peripheral sides so no shakes or massive appetite reduction, stim dick etc.

also now everything is made GMP so one can be sure every batch is 100% exactly the same as another and there is not a single % difference in quality from what it should be. in short: new version: better effect, maybe just a little, maybe a little more and most likely decent to good taste as i heard compact tastes good. (haven't used it because i do not like alpha-y) but i know how the formula would feel, as i know all the ingredients.


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

Neuroscience said:


> strange, you are one of the first that mentions a crash. most feel refreshed, hungry and sleep well and experience cognitive improvements in day to day life due to the neuroprotective and cortisol reducing effects.
> 
> funny how a few feel barely anything, most love it with no sides, and somebody else gets a crash. just mentioning it, as you are the first to report one really.
> 
> ...


I took 20g mate.

Honestly the crash wasn't good at all, can't complain on how good it was until that point. I'm going to try it again at 10g


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## medlgr (Jun 12, 2015)

What kinda cycle do you recomend on this stuff then @Neuroscience? 2 and 2?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

12--13 is actually ideal. 20 is too much, the substances are in a very specific ratio and you took it probably about 1 gram of sulbutiamine which is what will have caused the crash, some can take up to 900 but there is a reason that 600 is in there, it is what was in arcalion, a french medicine against chronic fatigue originating in the brain.

if you take too little you do not get the performance benefits of the creatinolo-phosphate and tmg so i would advise you to take 12-13 grams next time. it may feel "weak" but don't let that demotivate you, just train as hard as possible and it will be there to improve your performance when needed. thats the thing, in between sets and after workout, normally, one just feels well rested and good and happy on it, then when you do your set it delivers and allows you to have a better performance than normally.

you should feel great after a workout on 12 grams.


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

@G-man99 it did come yesterday but I had it sent to the Inlaws as they're normally in. I've got it now and will be using in the morning fasted so will report back after my workout.

Should I mix it with another drink if it tastes that bad or just hold my nose and down it? How much mater did you mix with it? I'll be using about 20g I think


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Right I got given a free sample of this so only right I give an honest review.

I've used my fair share of pre workouts over the years and tbf tried most of the popular ones on the market. since things like jack3d etc got banned Legal pres just don't cut it and for the last couple of years I've been using hacks stims which I love and can't fault

now for venom. I think the recommended dosage is between 8-14g I got told. I got given 46g so being the greedy fvck I am split it in 2 and had 23g fasted this morning about 30-40 mins before my workout.

To say this drink is disgusting is an understatement it's fvcking vial. The only way I could describe it was drinking fairy liquid.

being that I took nearly twice the recommended dose and fasted I had high hopes for. I got nothing from it, viltsh, fvck all. No pump, no focus, no energy just a horrible taste left in my mouth.

Don't know how much it cost but I wouldn't use again if I was given a free tub

now I'm not saying it won't work for others as I've seen people say how good it was but for me was probably the worst pre I've used. Maybe that's because I've been using strong stuff like the powerstack but even hacks pre boost which is a lot weaker smashes the shvt out of this

@G-man99 dint think nuorscience will like my review but it's an honest one

fvcking garbage


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

you used 600mg amp and 600mg caffeine along with 1200mg sulbutiamine, 200mg of a stable pea-form, 4 grams dlpa

and also 4 grams creatinol-o-phosphate, which even gives people strength gains who are stim free. it doesn't make me mad, it is just rather surprising, as other pres on the market do not use close to this dose, the only thing being some using yohimbine, which gives more of a cracked out feel and maybe for people who use that or ephedrine it is simply not what they are expecting.

performance gains should not be based on perceived stimulation though but on what happens inside the body. some have actually said they had better results on lower dosages.

maybe it was too much ashwagandha for you and too many endorphins and these cancelled out the stimulation. it is not intended to be taken at such a high dose.

i could imagine you would be doing better on half the amount. if you need that kick in the arse feeling, i have repeatedly recommended people using some phenylpiracetam which you can buy rather cheaply in the uk, dose that at 200mg along with venom and you will have that aggressive type of energy.

the new verssion that should be here in less than 2 weeks will contain a compound with effects similar to about 20mg of ephedrine, which will replace the 600mg sulbutiamine, which only make you awake but do not give a perceived stim effect. there will be 10k samples of this so no need to buy a tub, you will most likely be able to try it and i think the ones who prefer a certain cracked out feeling will like it better, yet it should still be clean enough for those who like the current feeling which is still the majority who asked me not to change anything please besides maybe increase the pump.

these reviews simply surprise me, as i designed this formula around what i use and i have used every preworkout that people like or speak about and none of them every felt right to me, this formula with some added things for energy metabolism and strength has helped me gain up to 30kg on some lifts in less than 2 months. and i am not talking beginner weights but 156kg of bench row to 186kg.

as i make the products without cost in mind and do the formula first, trying to produce the best i can, i am always surprised when it doesn't work because for me the hardcore drug-like whatever pres do nto increase my performance really, at least not in the medium term, maybe for one workout but after that there is no further benefit besides feeling drugged-up.

if it doesn't work for some it doesn't work. i just wish people would stop saying bad product or things like that. it is not the product. if you use my nutrient partitioner or natural anabolic that will come out or the compelte pct everyone will have an effect but because preworkouts manipulate endogenous brain chemistry, not everybody reacts the same.

just like people with add get prescribed amphetamines to calm them down. so what bothers me is not when someone didn't have great results but when they say it is a shit product. it is actually the most well thought out formula on the market, it just doesn't work with some peoples neurochemistry.

yet, creatinol-ophosphate, tmg, ashwagandha and pterostilbene all have perfromance increasing benefits which have been proven by studies and anecdotal evidence so it surprises me when there is not even a gain in strength or endurance. that could o course be explained by improper dosing, so i suggest everyone who has a tub but gets nothing out of it to properly dose it or stack some phenylpiracetam with it.

at the end of the year most likely there will be a preworkout released that will work even for the stim junkies, as it will have either a higher dosage of some ingredients or a mixture of ingredients that i have tried before and given as samples to people and everyone got extreme results from it. it cost 10 euros to make at the time with retail products but now it would be a lot less expensive of course. there will also be ingredients that will contribute to massive strength gains, regardless of stimulation. it will be more expensive though, yet still with a smaller profit margin than other products. some people like stacking venom2.0 for its non stim ingredients with venom compact as that has peripheral stimulation due to alpha-y and also the dopamine and acetylcholine increase from n-acetyltyrosine and acetyl-l-carnitine along with strength gains from amentoflavone.

curious wether anyone here has tried compact. reports from germany so far indicate about 20% increased metabolic rate (in large part due to 3,5 diiodo-lthyronine). thing is, some love it but others do get sides and i think while the last reviewer would prefer it to venom, the percentage of people who like either product is still higher with venom 2.0 as compact can have these effects that some like but many don't such as increased aggression, heart rate, maybe slight jitters, kick in the arse feel etc.

for those stim junkies they should try 2 scoops preworkout. if they do not feel that then nothing will be felt, as there is nothing to balance out the stim, one will get 300mg caffeine, 100mg theophylline, 1.5 grams acetyl-l-tyrosine, 80mg higenamine, 600mg dioodo-l-thyronine and 80mg amentoflavone. also 2 grams alcar and 4mg of alpha-y. that, anyone should feel. i am scared to try that and wouldn't touch it and i have used all drugs there are in this world basically...lol


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

also there is another thing to consider. people who have negative experience tend to post them, while people with positive ones often don't.

i have seen this with ugls. there was one ugl in germany, it was cheap and many reviews said that it was crap. i had a feeling the guy running it was honest though and placed an order. he not only added 4 free vials, it was also the best gear i ever got in germany.

similar story with noble labs. i have seen quite a few conflicting reviews. yes, some of the stuff leaves some intense pip but for me it is great gear and much better than the current crap thats on the german market. in germany they are after steroid labs more than they are after drug dealers it seems and you can get an easy 5 years jail for running one, so there is little left and most of it is shit, if you get bloat from masteron for example or nothing from some of the other compounds...

so when you read on the internet you can't really know which one to buy. some say renvex, some say noble, some say this or that (i don't know which ones are most established and popular in the UK) but try it yourself and i would easily buy all my stuff from noble if what i want was in stock or even sold by the shop. for example i love their 1-test-cyp but can't find it anywhere currently.

just found a source that carries 150mg/ml 1-test-cyp for 29.99. it has a number and fitness in its website adress. i think sources may not be mentioned but i think you guys know which one i mean. ist this source trustworthy?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

the feedback is getting funny. some get nothing and others are wondering if the samples are spiked as its so strong...lol

all i know is i got another 2 reps on shoulder press and flyes today, despite being in a large caloric deficit. i do stack a few things which i will one day release in a pwo with a slightly different stim profile. the strength gains on that are simply unbelievable. besides my favourite example of the 30kg increase on bench row deespite doing no bench row for 7 weeks, i am basically as strong at 83-84kg and around 6%bf (my avatar is one year ago and i am leaner now) as i was at 100kg with probably 20% or whatever. i have also managed to gain some fullness back by increasing calories, and despite losing more weight my arms measured 45cm the last time, i think yesterday. this is at a height of 1.82m or 6 feet.


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## jammie2013 (Nov 14, 2013)

This along with Jamie Lewis' is my pre workout of choice.

Taste is revolting, and I mean not fit for human consumption revolting.

But it works nicely. I get this clean wave of energy that is sustained throughout the training session which lasts for roughly 2 hours.

Unlike other pre workouts I don't feel like I'm on edge or about to have a cardiac episode, but sufficiently stimulated to grind through sets I wouldn't have the mental capacity to go through without it. Sometimes training sucks, but this makes it bearable.

And absolutely no comedown.

Are there pre workouts that "hit" harder? Yes, absolutely, but you also fall harder on them and during a session that's not something you want to experience

Look forward to them fixing the flavour


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> you used 600mg amp and 600mg caffeine along with 1200mg sulbutiamine, 200mg of a stable pea-form, 4 grams dlpa
> 
> and also 4 grams creatinol-o-phosphate, which even gives people strength gains who are stim free. it doesn't make me mad, it is just rather surprising, as other pres on the market do not use close to this dose, the only thing being some using yohimbine, which gives more of a cracked out feel and maybe for people who use that or ephedrine it is simply not what they are expecting.
> 
> ...


it was an honest review mate some will like it and some won't and I was someone that didn't. Your correct in that I like the stim/buzzing feeling but I literally got nothing from the venom. I've tried all the popular pres along with others and have to say it's one of the worst I've tried and the taste was horrendous

I might be being a bit stupid here but how can taking more make something less effective. I've taken my fair share of stims and reccys over the years and have never heard of this bizarre comment

now I don't like to put others down but to say you added 30kg to your bench in 2 months just from this product alone makes me call "bull shvt".

If your product is as good as you say it'll sell it self. Don't make up unrealistic claims and expect people on forums like this to believe that rubbish


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Training partner used it yesterday and the only feeling he got from it was anger at me for making him drink the most disgusting thing he has ever tried.

Again he said there was no difference in training, alertness, focus etc.

I know my batch must be ok as @Telbor used it and got a lot from it.

Very strange


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> Training partner used it yesterday and the only feeling he got from it was anger at me for making him drink the most disgusting thing he has ever tried. Again he said there was no difference in training, alertness, focus etc. I know my batch must be ok as @Telbor used it and got a lot from it. Very strange


I couldn't believe how bad it actually tastes. When you said it was bad I thought it'd be drinkable just not nice but it was like drinking soapy water.

I'm glad that it does work for some just not me, I felt nothing at all, off the shelf pres like noxplode are far better IMO

and come on how nieve does he think we are to claim a 30kg in bench. Ppfff just sounds desperate to me


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

> I couldn't believe how bad it actually tastes. When you said it was bad I thought it'd be drinkable just not nice but it was like drinking soapy water.
> 
> I'm glad that it does work for some just not me, I felt nothing at all, off the shelf pres like noxplode are far better IMO
> 
> and come on how nieve does he think we are to claim a 30kg in bench. Ppfff just sounds desperate to me


Tren and oxy doesn't give you that much!


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

> Training partner used it yesterday and the only feeling he got from it was anger at me for making him drink the most disgusting thing he has ever tried.
> 
> Again he said there was no difference in training, alertness, focus etc.
> 
> ...


Loved it for the time it was good lol

Anything after that..... Ruined my weekend


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

> it was an honest review mate some will like it and some won't and I was someone that didn't. Your correct in that I like the stim/buzzing feeling but I literally got nothing from the venom. I've tried all the popular pres along with others and have to say it's one of the worst I've tried and the taste was horrendous
> 
> I might be being a bit stupid here but how can taking more make something less effective. I've taken my fair share of stims and reccys over the years and have never heard of this bizarre comment
> 
> ...


not bench, bench row, and i never claimed that it was from this product but from my preworkout mix that i use. i was just stating what was possible. in order to achieve this there would have to be some adjustments made and a product that contains all that i use will be released probably at the end of the year. and it is possible to get this kind of increase over a period of under 2 months.

see, a single stimulant will not work less by using more but the product contains a gaba agonist, ashwagandha, by increasing the dose you increased gaba agonism, which in small amounts balances the feel of the product but in higher amounts may make you tired.

i never doubted your review, i think it is interesting, as others have said they think it is spiked as it is so strong. that is also obviously not the case.

as for sales, the first 100 units were gone in 2 days presale, i do not have to advertise, i am trying to get the most feedback i can get as it interests me and my aim is not max. profit but making the best possible product. that is why the cost of the products is much higher in production than what the competition makes.

btw a cycle support and nutrient repartitioner are now online on the brawn website called on cycle complete and recompagen. i won't comment much, only that they are the best dosed and most effective products in their category and unlike stimulant products should affect people very similarly especially the cycle support. naturally lean guys who are under 10%bf despite eating what they want might not get much out of recompagen but the ones who have problems getting very lean or are carb sensitive will really like this. it is based on a mix of ingredients i use that have pushed my metabolism to a point were i still lose fat at 4000 calories and actually need to eat a bunch of sweets in order not to lose too much weight. according to caliper measurements i am 4%bf now but i think it is more like 6 or just slightly under.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

i wish people had more faith and despite living in a world full of dishonest people would believe that i really do not make dishonest statements or have the intention of making as much money as possible. i only stated what i achieved with supplementation and yeah, the right nutrients targetting several pathways will give me much greater strength increases than adding more steroids. i am not saying they will work better than steroids, just that if i used 1 gram of gear and had the choice of using all supplements off my choice or another gram of gear, i will make better progress with the added supplements, as aas can only do so much, they do not target all possible pathways of performance enhancement. you need to realize i am not even an employee of the company, just someone who helps formulate the products so my interest lies in seeing peoples results, not advertising for money but so people try it.

for example venom compact has gotten only positive reviews with one guy losing 4kg in 13 days while keeping his strength, when i hear this it makes me happy as this is a passion of mine and the results are what are most important to me. of course there will never be a 100% response rate, but soon there will be a lot of samples, so anyone here who orders at a place that carries brawn will be able to see for themselves.


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## rb79 (Mar 7, 2012)

Neuroscience said:


> normally powermyself, but they are out, new better tastign version should be here in 2 weeks though. besides that, actually just ask them, as they know more about where and who and what about brawn, i just make the formulas and get a little comission. production costs are very high for these as i wanna make products that really work, so there are no huge profit margins.


is the new version any closer? and do we have a nice introductory offer on the price


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

intoductory sales or BOGO sales are most likely a sign, that the company can easily afford these and still make money off of the product.

most of these little tubs of preworkouts or fatburners cost those companies less than 5 pounds to produce, then they sell them for 30 or more. of course they can offer discounts etc. at such high profit margins. brawn works on such low margins that offering a BOGO would cause significant losses of money.

when brawn releases a preworkout at some point costing 50 pounds for 25 servings, then the production cost of this will be most likely 5-6 times higher than most others and at öeast 2-3 times higher than the well dosed and formulated products on the market. in germany people are now developing the mentality that quality counts more than price. once one understands the cost of the raws used then one will see that these formulas are actually way underpriced. other companies would charge triple, which they can't as customers would not buy, so what you end up with is a market full of underdosed products or products lacking a complete harmonizing ingredient profile.

it is easy to make a stim or fatburner for the cost of 3-5 pounds and have it have an effect, but that is not the idea behind these products. those products will not do you any good in the long term, burn out your cns and you get used to them quickly. with a well formulated product you can expect improvements of effects over time as things like mitochondrial energy production, organ health and detoxification of the body are all improved.

something like recompagen for example will not only help burn fat and get fuller muscles, it will also prevent the risk of developing diabetes, ingredients like ashwagandha help redgulate cortisol and protect the nervous system, there are also plenty of substances to mineralize, energize and detoxify the cells of the body, which will be used in the near future. such products will improve ones performance and health in the long terrm and even prevent risk of various illnesses as opposed to some cheap stim or fatburner that just burns out your cns, raises your cortisol and generally makes you feel like crap afterwards and the days afterwards etc.

even ones cognition can be positively or negatively affected by various substances. there are a bunch of ingredients that will improve brain function, reduce anxiety, inflammation (a major cause of depression actually).

brawn is for those who seek long term results and repeat customers, not someone who wants to jum from one stim to another and just try to get a quick but unsustainable immprovement to performance viewed in isolation.

once brawns second preworkout is released, the combination of that with recompagen and on cycle complete will target all pathway to improved energy production, protect all organs and make one significantly healthier, which will benefit performance in so many ways.


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## sneeky_dave (Apr 2, 2013)

Same old drum......on and fvckin on


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> i wish people had more faith and despite living in a world full of dishonest people would believe that i really do not make dishonest statements or have the intention of making as much money as possible. i only stated what i achieved with supplementation and yeah, the right nutrients targetting several pathways will give me much greater strength increases than adding more steroids. i am not saying they will work better than steroids, just that if i used 1 gram of gear and had the choice of using all supplements off my choice or another gram of gear, i will make better progress with the added supplements, as aas can only do so much, they do not target all possible pathways of performance enhancement. you need to realize i am not even an employee of the company, just someone who helps formulate the products so my interest lies in seeing peoples results, not advertising for money but so people try it.
> 
> for example venom compact has gotten only positive reviews with one guy losing 4kg in 13 days while keeping his strength, when i hear this it makes me happy as this is a passion of mine and the results are what are most important to me. of course there will never be a 100% response rate, but soon there will be a lot of samples, so anyone here who orders at a place that carries brawn will be able to see for themselves.


It's because you make ridiculous claims based on products only you have access to, seems in my months away from here you haven't stopped. Snake oil.

Your English has improved tremendously though buddy.


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

if your german was as good you could read the reviews. or you could research the ingredients or try a product. they are by far the most expensive to produce within their price range. there are hundreds of german customers waiting on venom, recompagen and on cycle complete. you can see the ingredients on the brawn nutrition website under the category "elite series".

my english was never bad, only my keyboard was ****ed up. i lived in english speaking countries for years. i dont make ridiculous claims.

i will let a two pics do the talking. normally people at a low bf start to lose strength and also they need to diet in order to achieve sub 10% levels. i eat around 4000 calories a day, never do cardio and am getting stronger every workout. of course i use my own customized mix of supplements but one by one i am putting out formulas that contain the ingredients i use. this is me at 6 feet and 84kg. i did incline flyes wit 50kg dumbbells today for 6 reps.

pic-upload.de/view-27801784/DSCI0031.jpg.html

pic-upload.de/view-27801883/DSCI0033.jpg.html

oh and with aas alone this would never be possible. all bodybuilders lose strength in competition prep. if i took a diuretic i am sure i would be stage ready. bodyfat can't be more than 6%. the mirror unfortunately hides the ab veins.


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## sneeky_dave (Apr 2, 2013)




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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> normally people at a low bf start to lose strength and also they need to diet in order to achieve sub 10% levels. i eat around 4000 calories a day, never do cardio and am getting stronger every workout. of course i use my own customized mix of supplements but one by one i am putting out formulas that contain the ingredients i use. this is me at 6 feet and 84kg. i did incline flyes wit 50kg dumbbells today for 6 reps


that right there is a ridiculous claim.

Same as your "special brew" that had an instant increase of 30-50kg on every exercise for you and your partner.

Or the product you have made that is so good tha the german company selling it doesn't want to sell it anywhere. By the way, did anyone you promised would receive said "wonder blend " ever receive it? Are they now super big, super lean and 30kg stronger across the board on all lifts? Snake oil pal, stop trying to push it.


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Someone send me a samp and I'll post an honest review....


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

SickCurrent said:


> Someone send me a samp and I'll post an honest review....


it's dog shvt mate don't bother and is the worst tasting thing I've ever put in my mouth


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## SickCurrent (Sep 19, 2005)

Abc987 said:


> it's dog shvt mate don't bother and is the worst tasting thing I've ever put in my mouth


Don't fancy a taste of chit in my mouth tbh lol


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Just to be clear, I'm not dissing venom. Just questioning neuros million pound pre workout that only he can access


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

SickCurrent said:


> Don't fancy a taste of chit in my mouth tbh lol


it's worse than shvt lol. It tastes like drinking soap is the only way I can describe it.

Dont go on my opinion though some say it's great but I can tell you you won't add 40kg to bench in a week or whatever the fvck he claims. It literally done nothing for me at 22g

Someone kindly gave me a sample enough for 2 drinks, I obvi only had one. If you want to try it pm me your address and I'll send you the rest of what I have about 20g I think


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

> Someone send me a samp and I'll post an honest review....


PM me, I've sent abc987 and telbor some. I'm not going to use it again


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

G-man99 said:


> PM me, I've sent abc987 and telbor some. I'm not going to use it again


why would you not use this miracle concoction again? It'll give you better strength increase than any steroid in a shorter time. You must be a silly lol

he told me that it never worked for me because I took to much ffs. How taking more if something can make it less effective is beyond me but we are all stupid and out to get him


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## TELBOR (Feb 20, 2012)

> why would you not use this miracle concoction again? It'll give you better strength increase than any steroid in a shorter time. You must be a silly lol
> 
> he told me that it never worked for me because I took to much ffs. How taking more if something can make it less effective is beyond me but we are all stupid and out to get him


I ran the dose suggested second time, made no difference lol. Threw the rest as the smell and taste made me gag PMSL


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

TELBOR said:


> I ran the dose suggested second time, made no difference lol. Threw the rest as the smell and taste made me gag PMSL


it's just another ridiculous claim. How can taking more of something stop it working ffs. In all my years of taking drugs/drinking/aas the more you take the more fvcked you get

unless he has a secret study to go with the secret formula. I'm done with listening to his bullshvt. I've tried and tested so go on my own opinion as always and it's rubbish. Other people can make up there own mind and maybe if they are lucky they'll add 40kg to bench within 1 workout, pppfffttt


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> all i know is i got another 2 reps on shoulder press and flyes today, despite being in a large caloric deficit.


ok


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Neuroscience said:


> i eat around 4000 calories a day, never do cardio and am getting stronger every workout


Which one is it?


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## Neuroscience (Sep 9, 2014)

hm? that is a deficit for me, i am at 6% or less on that diet and would need 5000 to maintain approx. at under 4000 i lose weight rapidly. i have managed to increase my insulin sensitivity so much that my body actually needs pizza, icecream, cake etc. despite me normally not even liking sweet foods. when i don't manage 4000 but around 3500 that puts me into a 1500 calorie deficit. my skinfold measurements are mostly around 2-3mm from the ones i can measure myself. 7 skinfold put me at 4,2% but i think it must be around 6, as i still do have some fat on my ass, no real stripes there but then again i tend to always hold some subcutaneous water.

the compounds i use mostly are na-r-ala, berberine, bergenine, agmatine, pomegranate standardized to punicalagins and blueberry extract. all of which will be found when using recompagen and transcendance, the new preworkout i am formulating, which will contain aound 25 grams of actives per scoop and contains mostly ingredients which occur in the body naturally and are involved in the production of cellular energy.

at this point i should not be gaining strength but am much stronger than i was at 99kg, now weighing around 84-86, depending on what i ate the day before with arms measuring between 44.8 and 45.8cm, depending on current weight and also intacellular water retention due to microtaumata caused the day before.

without supplementation my maintenance is around 3000 calories and i can get lean but not lose the last lower abdominal fat and water retention. now this area is covered in veins.

i don't make any products that contain compounds that i do not also use myself, except venom compact, as i do not like stimulant based fatburners.

the other day i managed 87kg dumbbell rows for 21 reps, at my biggest it was 90kgx10 or so. backk then i was eating less than 4000 cals on average.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Uh huh.


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## Oberkonitsasmalltown (Aug 20, 2015)

Is the newer better tasting version out yet ? Any comparisons with ds frenzy for anybody that's used both?


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## G-man99 (Jul 15, 2008)

Oberkonitsasmalltown said:


> Is the newer better tasting version out yet ? Any comparisons with ds frenzy for anybody that's used both?


Why would you even consider using it, never mind what it tastes like??


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## Oberkonitsasmalltown (Aug 20, 2015)

G-man99 said:


> Why would you even consider using it, never mind what it tastes like??
> 
> Because I've read some very good reviews and I respond well to amp citrate . I've tasted some vile pre workouts so not overly concerned about the taste however it was mentioned a better tasting one was coming out .


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