# Look fatter at first during a cut?



## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm currently running albuterol, lean X and erase pro on a cut. I currently weigh 200lbs, weighing every scrap of food and eating per day :

280g protein

225-230g carbs

50-70g fat

The weird thing is that I am noticably dropping bodyfat, but my weight hasn't really changed! And I also feel like I actually look fatter at the moment. My upper abs have thinned out but still got lower ab pouch and chest fat. I feel like I look worse than before I started my cut! Almost like skinny fat 

Anyone else experienced anything similar? This is my first *true,* all out cut btw (always carried 15-20% bf).


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'd drop the kcals another 300, take it mainly from the protein.


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

robdobbie said:


> I'd drop the kcals another 300, take it mainly from the protein.


Okay - I can take out an ON casein and whey shake (approx 230 kcals) which would leave me with the following :

Meal 1 - 75 rolled oats, 250ml semi skimmed

Meal 2 - 50g Cashews

Meal 3 - 150g Chicken Breast, 150g Broccoli

Meal 4 (before workout) - 150g Chicken Breast, 150g Broccoli, 125g Brown Rice

PWO - ON Gold standard/ON Casein 50/50 split (1 scoop), 30g oat flour

Meal 5 - 200g lean mince, 150g sweet potato

Meal 6 before bed - ON Casein shake

Kcals 2440g

Protein - 247g

Carbs - 224g

Fat - 63g

I'm eating pretty much the same thing every day so I know exactly what i'm taking in. Does this look better?

I hear a lot about carb cycling... Is this any good? If so what should I do to implement it?

THANKS


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Your probably just flat from depleted glycogen which happens initially during a diet. It used to happen to me when I just used to drop calories by the hundred. I'd also say for your weight (depending on body fat) that your probably not eating enough. What were your calories beforehand?


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

Yeh thought that might be the case. Can that make you appear a bit fatter initially or disproportionate?

My maintenance calorie intake is approx 3000kcals. When I bulk I increase to 3300 (lean bulk)..

My previous take on a cut was to drop to 2750 kcals, but I'm going to drop to 2450kcals.. What do you reckon?


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

Just drop and watch ur body mate, nobody is gonna tell u how ur body will react rly.

I think some ppl r not big (muscular) enough to cut tbh  They do it wrong way before they learn how to do it proper (so they lose a lot of muscle with all that fat) and they like almost where they have started


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

wcolstacks said:


> Okay - I can take out an ON casein and whey shake (approx 230 kcals) which would leave me with the following :
> 
> Meal 1 - 75 rolled oats, 250ml semi skimmed
> 
> ...


Looks good to me. You don't say your BF%, but if you're 20% you should be losing ~1.5lb a week, if 15% ~1lb a week. Stick at these kcals for 2-3 weeks then adjust if you need to.

Can't help you with carb cycling, furthest I go is having a cheat meal on Saturday and going low carb the next day with 20 mins fasted cardio in the morning.


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

gradziol said:


> Just drop and watch ur body mate, nobody is gonna tell u how ur body will react rly.
> 
> I think some ppl r not big (muscular) enough to cut tbh  They do it wrong way before they learn how to do it proper (so they lose a lot of muscle with all that fat) and they like almost where they have started


Yeh I hear you...My main focus for last year has been on size and strength, so I have eaten in accordance with this. This is a learning curve for me!

I've attached two taken earlier today. Still nowhere near where I wanna be but i'm getting there.

This is me today @ 200lbs



I know it's not great by anyone's standards but i'm working on it.. I'm aiming for aesthetics which i've never had before.

I'm gonna get my bf taken soon, what would you guess it's at? Do you see what I mean by kinda looking skinny fat (or just plain fat haha).. :turned:


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

Got some decent size to you, I'd say around 18-20% looking at those pics


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

robdobbie said:


> Got some decent size to you, I'd say around 18-20% looking at those pics


Yeah think you're right, especially seeing pics of other people etc.. i'm going to get it measured properly as well so I can make a log. Lots of work to do!

How long you reckon it'll take to get to 10-12% ?


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

wcolstacks said:


> I'm currently running albuterol, lean X and erase pro on a cut. I currently weigh 200lbs, weighing every scrap of food and eating per day :
> 
> 280g protein
> 
> ...


you might look like you are fatter since 70% of water is held in the muscle, so it you lose water it exaggerates the layer of fat over the top at first, making you look thinner and fatter for a little while.


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

Boshlop said:


> you might look like you are fatter since 70% of water is held in the muscle, so it you lose water it exaggerates the layer of fat over the top at first, making you look thinner and fatter for a little while.


Yeah that could have a part in it.. I think the fact that my upper abs have leaned up but my lower abs haven't gives an element of disproportion. I am also probably being a little paranoid too. Just gonna push on through it!


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

IMHO matey u need to put more muscle on and then cut. Rly, think about it, how often do ppl see u topless? And when cutting u r always risking that u will lose some precious muscle. So maybe first put on weight and then cut, At least I do it this way, will cut next year. It was hard sometimes to have this 20% bf on u but I know that is worth it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

gradziol said:


> IMHO matey u need to put more muscle on and then cut. Rly, think about it, how often do ppl see u topless? And when cutting u r always risking that u will lose some precious muscle. So maybe first put on weight and then cut, At least I do it this way, will cut next year. It was hard sometimes to have this 20% bf on u but I know that is worth it.


Forget all this broscience mate and just cut, you wont lose any muscle, sure you will get flat and look smaller, you have already experienced that hence the OP.

Get yourself in shape 10% and gain muscle slowly taking in no more than 2-300 cals a day over maintenance.

To answer the question how many people see you topless?

The answer is a damn sight more if you are at 10%

gradziol, what makes you think you gain any more muscle bloating up to 20% BF than you do staying at 10%


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

wcolstacks said:


> Yeh thought that might be the case. Can that make you appear a bit fatter initially or disproportionate?
> 
> My maintenance calorie intake is approx 3000kcals. When I bulk I increase to 3300 (lean bulk)..
> 
> My previous take on a cut was to drop to 2750 kcals, but I'm going to drop to 2450kcals.. What do you reckon?


I'd personally drop them abit slower and maybe use carb timings and maybe cycling. I've found calorie cycling to work pretty well. Since you are fairly high bodyfat I'd take it slow and do more of a re comp


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

banzi said:


> gradziol, what makes you think you gain any more muscle bloating up to 20% BF than you do staying at 10%


I didnt say that going from 10 to 20% when bulking is a good thing, it is just better in my opinion to concentrate on one thing for longer instead of going from bulk to cut every couple of months. And believe me mate, when u cut not knowing how to do it u may lose ****loads of muscle, I know that from times when I use to cut for a fights.

With time, when u learn how to do it properly and maybe start to use SAA a risk of losing muscle is limited but when u leran it can leave u near a point when u started.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

gradziol said:


> I didnt say that going from 10 to 20% when bulking is a good thing, it is just better in my opinion to concentrate on one thing for longer instead of going from bulk to cut every couple of months. *And believe me mate, when u cut not knowing how to do it u may lose ****loads of muscle, I know that from times when I use to cut for a fights.*
> 
> With time, when u learn how to do it properly and maybe start to use SAA a risk of losing muscle is limited but when u leran it can leave u near a point when u started.


Maybe that was just you overestimating how much muscle you had before you cut?

Muscle doesnt disappear before fat, the body doesnt work that way, you start shedding muscle once the fat is all gone.


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

banzi said:


> Muscle doesnt disappear before fat, the body doesnt work that way, you start shedding muscle once the fat is all gone.


I disagree with u mate on this one, this way nobody would be on high protein diet when cutting, all u would have to do is create calories deficit and watch ur body get rid of all fat leaving u nice and shredded.


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## Robbie789 (Sep 6, 2012)

wcolstacks said:


> Yeah think you're right, especially seeing pics of other people etc.. i'm going to get it measured properly as well so I can make a log. Lots of work to do!
> 
> How long you reckon it'll take to get to 10-12% ?


About 16 weeks natty, I'd add a bit of clen in to speed things along.


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## armor king (Sep 29, 2013)

wcolstacks said:


> I'm currently running albuterol, lean X and erase pro on a cut. I currently weigh 200lbs, weighing every scrap of food and eating per day :
> 
> 280g protein
> 
> ...


I don't know what any of those supplements that your using are I know there for fat loss but are they herbs or drugs of some sort. im wanting to get fat loss supps the only one iv heard of is lean extreme


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

armor king said:


> I don't know what any of those supplements that your using are I know there for fat loss but are they herbs or drugs of some sort. im wanting to get fat loss supps the only one iv heard of is lean extreme


Dont waste your money, its all down to diet.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

banzi said:


> Maybe that was just you overestimating how much muscle you had before you cut?
> 
> Muscle doesnt disappear before fat, the body doesnt work that way, you start shedding muscle once the fat is all gone.


No, just no. Your body likes fat, it doesn't like muscle. Which one do you think it try's to preserve when you have a limited fuel intake?


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

armor king said:


> I don't know what any of those supplements that your using are I know there for fat loss but are they herbs or drugs of some sort. im wanting to get fat loss supps the only one iv heard of is lean extreme


Lean Xtreme and Erase Pro are non-stim OTC fat burners. Lean X helps to control cortisol and Erase Pro supposedly helps keep to keep oestrogen levels in check.

Albuterol is Clenbuterols faster acting brother and only has a half life of 3-4 hours. The benefits of using albuterol over clen are well documented - https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/albuterol/


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

banzi said:


> Dont waste your money, its all down to diet.


I totally agree - diet is everything. However I am using the supplements I mentioned to "supplement" my strict diet, so I see nothing other than benefits from this 

Particularly with Albut - loving this stuff.


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## wcolstacks (Jan 10, 2014)

robdobbie said:


> About 16 weeks natty, I'd add a bit of clen in to speed things along.


I'm using Albuterol - clen sides like documented heart necrosis in users along with other things steered me towards Albut.

In fact the research really backs up albuterol as a superior compound for side effects.

This guy explains the difference between to two well -


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## Lazy G (Apr 15, 2014)

banzi said:


> Forget all this broscience mate and just cut, you wont lose any muscle, sure you will get flat and look smaller, you have already experienced that hence the OP.
> 
> Get yourself in shape 10% and gain muscle slowly taking in no more than 2-300 cals a day over maintenance.
> 
> ...


Makes perfect sense to me - good advice !


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

jonnym4 said:


> No, just no. Your body likes fat, it doesn't like muscle. Which one do you think it try's to preserve when you have a limited fuel intake?


Exactly my point  That have left me with ****y definition and half the muscles gone when I went from 90kg to 77kg in 2 months prep for a fight. Never f..king again!!!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

gradziol said:


> Exactly my point  That have left me with ****y definition and half the muscles gone when I went from 90kg to 77kg in 2 months prep for a fight. Never f..king again!!!


No, it was the fat that went, its just you dont have as much lean tissue as you think you do.

I have heard it a million times, people carrying around large amounts of fat thinking they are carrying a bit of spare and water.

Get down to 5% BF and then weigh yourself.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

banzi said:


> No, it was the fat that went, its just you dont have as much lean tissue as you think you do.
> 
> I have heard it a million times, people carrying around large amounts of fat thinking they are carrying a bit of spare and water.
> 
> Get down to 5% BF and then weigh yourself.


Bit different it his case compared to the OP. Dieting for a fight is an evil necessary to make weight. My point is that he needs to keep his food intake as high as possible to reduce the down grade of protein synthesis. This will then promote fat loss as his body isn't shi**ng itself thinking its going to be starved. To think your body will just lose fat cause you reduce calories and want to lose fat is ridiculous.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

jonnym4 said:


> Bit different it his case compared to the OP. Dieting for a fight is an evil necessary to make weight. My point is that he needs to keep his food intake as high as possible to reduce the down grade of protein synthesis. This will then promote fat loss as his body isn't shi**ng itself thinking its going to be starved. To think your body will just lose fat cause you reduce calories and want to lose fat is ridiculous.


Ridiculous , why?

Most fighters tend to drop water weight to make fights.

I can never understand a fighter walking into a ring with bodyfat on, it doesnt make sense at all.

I can drop weight on 900 cals a day and not lose muscle and Im 220-230lbs


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

banzi said:


> Ridiculous , why?
> 
> Most fighters tend to drop water weight to make fights.
> 
> ...


Fighter with body fat on proves that it is easier for a body to use muscles than fat for energy as it wants to save fat for hard times. Also fighters do ****load of cardio based training, that doesn't help with keeping muscles as a body just see it as something it doesn't rly need.

If u can get shredded on 900 cal mate and go all the way down to 5% bf without loosing a gram o muscle mass then u should be reach and glorified by BB community as a new messiah.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

gradziol said:


> Fighter with body fat on proves that it is easier for a body to use muscles than fat for energy as it wants to save fat for hard times. Also fighters do ****load of cardio based training, that doesn't help with keeping muscles as a body just see it as something it doesn't rly need.
> 
> If u can get shredded on 900 cal mate and go all the way down to 5% bf without loosing a gram o muscle mass then u should be reach and glorified by BB community as a new messiah.


Obviously this was abit of am extreme example as most fighters wont lose 13kg in such a short time period and adipose tissue contains 80% of the bodies energy stores so being extremely lean could have a negative effect on a performance athlete.

However when gear comes into play then losing muscle shouldn't be an issue anyway but I assume the OP was natural. Unless you got a DEXA scan before and after then there's no point us saying no you can't, yes you can and so on.


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

@gradziol I didn't mean to quote you there! Stupid iPad!


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## gradziol (Feb 21, 2014)

jonnym4 said:


> @gradziol I didn't mean to quote you there! Stupid iPad!


No probs mate.

I have lost 13kg but around 5-6kg of it was water before the fight. Still when I look at the pictures from the day I have looked horrible compared to couple of months before. I was natty then, nothing, not even ****ing creatine


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