# true squats??



## mr.buffnstuff (Oct 22, 2009)

easy now, so ok then, what do you people class as a squat?

Do you folk go down below parallel on every rep i.e what you would do in competition?

Ive been working on my squats getting the bar down to about 80-100cms off the ground. My PB is 160kg (im 6 foot 3) Now i have some people telling me that i shouldnt bother going so low? To me you get the best results when working the full range of motion....

opinions please?


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## Testoholic (Jun 13, 2009)

its a well debated one, im also 6'3 and find it hard getting below parallel, im often told, usually by smaller gimpy personal trainers, im doing it all wrong  and that im not going low enough.

however my legs respond better and seem to grow more doing a 220kg squat inch above parellel that say a 160kg squat **** to the ground...


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## Phil D (Feb 21, 2010)

i squatted ATG for a few years but i had horrible knee pain, when i switched to parallel squats my knee pain magically dissappeared. I dont think squatting ATG is always the best for the taller lifter.


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## WillOdling (Aug 27, 2009)

Mrbuffnstuff

we've talked about squats already. The proper tecnique is by wearing a mouldy old vest with stains on and some old skidded up y-fronts with holes in. Have you learnt nothing? :lol:


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## chrisj22 (Mar 22, 2006)

Ass to grass - nothing less.


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## mr.buffnstuff (Oct 22, 2009)

Wildbill said:


> Mrbuffnstuff
> 
> we've talked about squats already. The proper tecnique is by wearing a mouldy old vest with stains on and some old skidded up y-fronts with holes in. Have you learnt nothing? :lol:


Learnt nothing? i saw you in that string vest that you must of stole off onzlo off 'keeping up appearences', and them nasty old Y fronts you insist on always wearing. I saw the way the girls ran away and decided to opt against what you do!


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

if your hard and want to go on about ATG then do that and take the pressure off your muscles onto your knees its fine. otherwise go to parralel and keep the tension on the muscles rather than the knees and tendons


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## mr.buffnstuff (Oct 22, 2009)

chrisj22 said:


> Ass to grass - nothing less.


What is the requirement for a squat so it would be counted in competition?


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

just look up powerlifting and squatting in google and you will see.


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## BigDom86 (Jul 27, 2008)

actually alot of bb'ers on bench press will stop an inch or 2 shy of the chest as it keeps tension on the chest muscle.

i go below parallel with anything below 140k on squat. but 140 and above ill go parallel or i just get bad knee pains


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Wildbill said:


> Mrbuffnstuff
> 
> we've talked about squats already. The proper tecnique is by wearing a mouldy old vest with stains on and some old skidded up y-fronts with holes in. Have you learnt nothing? :lol:





mr.buffnstuff said:


> Learnt nothing? i saw you in that string vest that you must of stole off onzlo off 'keeping up appearences', and them nasty old Y fronts you insist on always wearing. I saw the way the girls ran away and decided to opt against what you do!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



ruaidhri said:


> I don't have studies to prove it but I've read numerous articles explaining that squatting all the way down being bad for your knees is a load of bollokcs. I personally squat ATG and don't suffer any knee pain at all, and I used to get some knee pain when i squatted parallel.
> 
> *Don't understand why people think it's ok to not do the full ROM on squats. Nobody with any sense would only go half way down on bench press!*





BigDom86 said:


> actually alot of bb'ers on bench press will stop an inch or 2 shy of the chest as it keeps tension on the chest muscle.


x2 what Dom said,i squat down to 90 degree angle on my knee to calves,when pressing i stop a cpl inches shy of chest on the way down and tend to try not to lock out at the top to keep constant tension on the muscle,swings and roundabouts,what works for one may not be great for another,experiment and find out what is good for you whilst causing minimal (bad) pain


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

mr.buffnstuff said:


> What is the requirement for a squat so it would be counted in competition?


Legs must break the line of parallel. Generally, hips below knees, hamstrings touching the calf.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

A lot of people use the Full ROM bollox as an excuse for lifting fck all

In squats, in order to progress, you cant just come out and hit a new PB below parrallel for instance, Its required that your cns is prepped and ancillary muscles get used to weight before full depth can be reached

Partials (above para) are a very effective way of achieving this

As for chest, Personally as my pec are super strong, stoppig a few inches above would make my lift weaker

But IN weespunks case its benefitial

everyone is differenT

should not be so closed minded about any kind training

Your body does not know what your doing, all it knows is "fck thats heavy" PMSL


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

jw007 said:


> In squats, in order to progress, you cant just come out and hit a new PB below parrallel for instance, Its required that your cns is prepped and ancillary muscles get used to weight before full depth can be reached
> 
> Partials (above para) are a very effective way of achieving this


Agree with this. The first time I went for 5 plates, then 5.5, then 6 there was no way in hell I was going to do that below parallel - it was partials, then the next time deeper and deeper until I got there.


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

A squat is whatever you want it to be.

There are certain rules that must be followed in strength contests but otherwise do as you like.


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## OrganicSteel (Feb 4, 2008)

Ass to the Grass, only thing that works for me. Mind you, my battery hen legs are less than desirable.


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

There's no need to go totally ass to grass, but I do believe in going below par

Ive seen people lift a lot a few inches above par, then as soon as they go below, they cant lift f**k all - and these people are generally skinny runts

but like people have said, different goals etc - I just don't like it when someone thinks they're real strong and their squat is nowhere near par


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## bigbob33 (Jan 19, 2009)

I personally find if I go below parralell that the pressure on my knees is too much, parralell they're fine.


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Atg means fukall, This video by itself proves that in everyway shape and form






Ok why the hell anyone would wear jeans in training is beyond me, but apart from that.


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

Personally go just below parallel on heavy squats, on warmup and cooldown I go as low as possible.

I love squats, lol.


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

BigDom86 said:


> if your hard and want to go on about ATG then do that and take the pressure off your muscles onto your knees its fine. otherwise go to parralel and keep the tension on the muscles rather than the knees and tendons


x2


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## dmcc (Nov 25, 2007)

andysutils said:


> Ok why the hell anyone would wear jeans in training is beyond me, but apart from that.


They restrict movement and provide support, like a squat suit or briefs. Suits made of denim are rare, but they exist.


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## MillionG (Nov 17, 2009)

andysutils said:


> Atg means fukall, This video by itself proves that in everyway shape and form
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see your point..?

Sure it's a heavy squat but he's not gong anywhere near parallel even.

I don't understand what you're trying to prove.... :confused1:


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## dazsmith69 (Oct 29, 2009)

I would also agree that going further down is harder for taller people than smaller guys as their centre of gravity is completely different.

To get a full ROM with a squat i have to put discs down under my heels so i can lean slightly further back into the squat instead of leaning slightly forward to compensate, putting unecessary pressure on my back.

i would prefer a hack squat 100% over a free squat anyday to save my back, damn gym hasnt got one though.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

depth is determined by your structure and your flexibility - theres no point in telling a tall lifter who has tight hams and calves to go ass to grass as it will no doubt lead to injury.

personally I think go as deep as you structure and flexibility allows - the deeper you go the more balanced leg development you will get and your training efficiency will go up

in terms of people saying that parallel is safer I dont 100% agree - yes potentially less shear forces in the knee but stopping and turning round at parallel is when the knee is at its weakest due to the ligaments being lax so there is potential for injury there as well

in terms of mechanical loading the quads are more stimulated by shorter depth and are probably maximally overloaded just above parallel as the moment arms is the greatest - as you go deeper theres greater forward lean and as such the moment arm for the quads becomes shorter and becomes longer for the hi[p extensors

if your tall and unflexibile then usuallty to get more depth you just need to widen the stance and turn the feet out more


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

I think jut below parallel is right for me. I believe knees only get fooked when you go ATG, and the transfer of energy from that position is what puts the pressure on the joint. But just before ATG the tension will stay on the quads, and give a fuller ROM.


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## merve500 (Sep 10, 2008)

andysutils said:


> Atg means fukall, This video by itself proves that in everyway shape and form
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tight jeans to keep ppressure on ur legs allows you to lift a little more weight andrrew merrifeild also does this and his legs are fantasic


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

I don't see why people keep saying they get knee pain when they go below par - squatting partially is a lot more harmful to the knees than squatting properly.

Also to those saying that your knees will get f*cked when going ATG, I really don't understand where you're getting this from.

Lets look at olympic weightlifters, they provide the perfect illustration of the benefits of a full squat

- 167 out of 192 countries compete in olympic weightlifting

- More than 10,000 individuals compete in international weightlifting federations alone

- The number of participants from these 167 countires would be staggering - China alone boasts over 1 million lifters (from Ma Jian Ping)

- These weightlifters squat safley below parallel very often, in a lot of circumstances some form of back / front squat everyday

It's funny how these athletes are both strong, and not under the care of an orthopaedic surgeon...


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## rodrigo (Jun 29, 2009)

depth i just change to shock my legs and use it as a tool in my ****nal as legs do get hard to hurt for me , but i do find ATG and parellel both have a use


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

crouchmagic said:


> I don't see why people keep saying they get knee pain when they go below par - squatting partially is a lot more harmful to the knees than squatting properly.
> 
> Also to those saying that your knees will get f*cked when going ATG, I really don't understand where you're getting this from.
> 
> ...


Olympic lifters are professional squatters. So of course they can complete a full ROM otherwise they wouldnt be squatting at olympic level however not everyone is of that level so i think going below parallel can cause problems for people who are not made for squatting. I am one of them I can only go just above parallel otherwise i get knee pain and it just feels like im going to injury myself. Even with no weight on the bar i can only go down so far.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

lambert said:


> Olympic lifters are professional squatters. So of course they can complete a full ROM otherwise they wouldnt be squatting at olympic level however not everyone is of that level so i think going below parallel can cause problems for people who are not made for squatting. I am one of them I can only go just above parallel otherwise i get knee pain and it just feels like im going to injury myself. Even with no weight on the bar i can only go down so far.


could this just be your form sucks? if you can only squat with the bar and get pain then your forms off or you have some imbalances/under lying issues IMO

I tend to favour crouchmagics opinion - unless you have dodgy knees then full squatting is fine if you have the flexibility, whether thats better for quad growth is debatable


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## treb92 (Jun 10, 2008)

glen danbury said:


> could this just be your form sucks? if you can only squat with the bar and get pain then your forms off or you have some imbalances/under lying issues IMO
> 
> I tend to favour crouchmagics opinion - unless you have dodgy knees then full squatting is fine if you have the flexibility, whether thats better for quad growth is debatable


Form is fine. Underlying issues is a possibilty, which is my point really, not every is ok to go below parallel.


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

glen danbury said:


> depth is determined by your structure and your flexibility - theres no point in telling a tall lifter who has tight hams and calves to go ass to grass as it will no doubt lead to injury.
> 
> personally I think go as deep as you structure and flexibility allows - the deeper you go the more balanced leg development you will get and your training efficiency will go up
> 
> ...


I hate fckin agreeing with you natty scum:cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

crouchmagic said:


> I don't see why people keep saying they get knee pain when they go below par - squatting partially is a lot more harmful to the knees than squatting properly.
> 
> Also to those saying that your knees will get f*cked when going ATG, I really don't understand where you're getting this from.
> 
> ...


Let slook at boxing

There a billions of pro, semi pro even amateur boxers out there getting punched in head every day

However I dont think I could take a head shot every day

Whats your point????


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

jw007 said:


> I hate fckin agreeing with you natty scum:cursing: :cursing: :cursing:
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


I know i rock your world:lol:


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

jw007 said:


> Let slook at boxing
> 
> There a billions of pro, semi pro even amateur boxers out there getting punched in head every day
> 
> ...


his point being its the meathead bodybuilders with dodgy form who seem to be getting the knee pain :whistling:


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## jw007 (Apr 12, 2007)

glen danbury said:


> his point being its the meathead *bodybuilders* with dodgy form who seem to be getting the knee pain :whistling:


define BODYBULDER:whistling:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

jw007 said:


> Let slook at boxing
> 
> There a billions of pro, semi pro even amateur boxers out there getting punched in head every day
> 
> ...


I didn't come up with that argument, it's from the book "Starting Strength", where he goes into detail on the issue of depth haha


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

lambert said:


> Olympic lifters are professional squatters. So of course they can complete a full ROM otherwise they wouldnt be squatting at olympic level however not everyone is of that level so i think going below parallel can cause problems for people who are not made for squatting. I am one of them I can only go just above parallel otherwise i get knee pain and it just feels like im going to injury myself. Even with no weight on the bar i can only go down so far.


By olympic lifters, I mean the sport of weightlifting, not olympic standard lifting..

This also ties in with powerlifters, they all go just below parallel fine.

I have to agree with Glen - I think its a form issue if you can't go below par

When I started squatting I put a lot of emphasis on correct form, I'm 6'4 and lanky, not exactly built for squatting - however I can go down low fine, no knee trouble.


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## martin brown (Dec 31, 2008)

lambert said:


> Olympic lifters are professional squatters. So of course they can complete a full ROM otherwise they wouldnt be squatting at olympic level however not everyone is of that level so i think going below parallel can cause problems for people who are not made for squatting. *I am one of them I can only go just above parallel otherwise i get knee pain* and it just feels like im going to injury myself. Even with no weight on the bar i can only go down so far.





glen danbury said:


> could this just be *your form sucks?* if you can only squat with the bar and get pain then your forms off or you have some imbalances/under lying issues IMO
> 
> I tend to favour crouchmagics opinion - unless you have dodgy knees then full squatting is fine if you have the flexibility, whether thats better for quad growth is debatable


The bits in bold sum it up nicely 

The main cause of knee pain during squats is bad form. No excuses, just bad form. Leg press, hack squat and leg extension put many mutliples MORE stress through the knee than a properly executed full squat. But it's a little strange that those who cant squat will pretty much always leg press and use the extension. This shows form is the issue here.

Activation of hams and adductors etc only really kick in around // so higher squats will over time cause imbalance in the knee muscles and make you more prone to injury.

Partials etc have their place for those who know what they are doing but for the average guy in the gym they should learn how to squat and then squat. This means as far as their flexibility allows.

M


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

martin brown said:


> The bits in bold sum it up nicely
> 
> The main cause of knee pain during squats is bad form. No excuses, just bad form. Leg press, hack squat and leg extension put many mutliples MORE stress through the knee than a properly executed full squat. But it's a little strange that those who cant squat will pretty much always leg press and use the extension. This shows form is the issue here.
> 
> ...


 :thumb: Very true


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

martin brown said:


> The bits in bold sum it up nicely
> 
> The main cause of knee pain during squats is bad form. No excuses, just bad form. Leg press, hack squat and leg extension put many mutliples MORE stress through the knee than a properly executed full squat. But it's a little strange that those who cant squat will pretty much always leg press and use the extension. This shows form is the issue here.
> 
> ...


Good post totally agree.

As a beginner i think you are best learning how to squat with good technique and go to at least parrallel. As you get stronger and more experienced then experiment with different levels of depth if you feel the need to.

Most people squatting a partial movement only do so as they cant squat fvck all to parrellel or below, so look better piling on a load of weight and moving a foot or so...

As a pl i dont like the idea of partial squats, i think there are many better options, eg using bands and chains will achieve what you want (ie the movement gets harder as leverages improve), and you dont get in any kind of habit of cutting depth or being scared to take the weight down below par when they get heavier.


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## Dig (Aug 28, 2007)

BTW i believe squatting with good form can still cause knee probs, surely it could occur if quads or hams are tight and cause strain on tendon??


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