# strength based routine help?



## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Hi Guys,

Looking at trying to improve my lifts again and get stronger. Training over 4 days and looking at working up to my 5rm each week. Once stalled, I will then look at triples and then doubles. My shoulders are weak and recently been doing clean and press over military press so doing to do one of the days on shoulders to hopefully bring up my Bench. Please see below:

Monday: Squat, Acc Work

Tuesday - Clean and Press, Acc Work

Thursday - Deadlift, Acc Work

Friday - Bench, Acc Work

The thing I am struggling at putting together is the assistance work. I thought about then doing 85%rm 5x5 after the main lifts and then an isolation exercise.

Any advice and help would be really appreciated.

Thanks


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

With assistance work it's each to their own really and other people may post opposite advice to mine but I'll give you my take anyway.

With assistance I would say to not get too bogged down with it, I see some peoples plans and they're doing 4 or 5 assistance moves which I personally find unnecessary.

Any assistance I would recommend 8-12 reps and to keep the weight heavy enough for it to be worth doing.


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Bataz said:


> With assistance work it's each to their own really and other people may post opposite advice to mine but I'll give you my take anyway.
> 
> With assistance I would say to not get too bogged down with it, I see some peoples plans and they're doing 4 or 5 assistance moves which I personally find unnecessary.
> 
> Any assistance I would recommend 8-12 reps and to keep the weight heavy enough for it to be worth doing.


 Is your assistance the same every time or do you mix it up. What would you recommend based on my routine?


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

When I'm in Powerlifting Mode I do very little assistance. I squat and dead lift together on day 1 & 3. I bench on day 2 & 4. Day 2 i'll put press variations in and day 4 will be pull variations but only 2 exercises.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm not a believer in doing assistance work for a lift whilst still attempting to increase that lift.

By that I mean that if I were using clean and press to assist my bench work I would be focussing on maintaining my bench whilst I was doing so.

I think that the assistance exercise - done with any real effectiveness - would reduce the amount of energy/effort/strength I had for my bench and therefore render improvements negligible.

My approach would be to train bench as a single lift, working on explosiveness off the chest with my warm up sets, until improvement stalls. Then I would introduce an assistance exercise to address the weak link in my bench whilst maintaining my bench at around the same level. Once I'd strengthened the weakness, I would drop the assistance and revert to progressing my bench.


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mingster said:


> I'm not a believer in doing assistance work for a lift whilst still attempting to increase that lift.
> 
> By that I mean that if I were using clean and press to assist my bench work I would be focussing on maintaining my bench whilst I was doing so.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for this. So would you just do the one exercise and finish there.

For example this morning, haven't been well so:

Worked up too a 150kg Deadlift

Assistance: 5x5 Deadlift 130kg, 3x10 Lat Pulldown, 3x10 Machine Rows

Is this okay?


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

rsd147 said:


> Thanks for this. So would you just do the one exercise and finish there.
> 
> For example this morning, haven't been well so:
> 
> ...


 It depends were your struggling on the lift like Mingster said.

Were do you struggle most on that lift are you slow off the floor or do you struggle at lockout ?


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

you want to increase your strength and technique (partially synonymous) yet are only hitting the big 3 lifts once per week

the bro split approach is 'acceptable' for VERY advanced lifters who require so much volume that they could not recover and hit the same muscle group with the same intensity more than once weekly (there are ways in which people in this scenario do hit the lifts multiple times per week but its off topic to your OP)

for the vast majority of people youd be far better off hitting the movements 2-3 times per week ingraining proper technique, motor unit recruitment, building muscle and continually trying to mimic the movement exactly the same every session

my advice would be to run something like madcows or the texas method and throw in assistance where necessary (for your personal lagging body parts) dont go mad on assistance though as these programs will be hitting your entire body all over and building size and strength

personally i wouldnt add anything more than dips, chins and rear delt work, ditch the belt and there wont be any need for ab work (if you plan on competeting then use a belt and throw in some ab work on the friday after your main lifts)

also remember that food is what makes you grow both bigger and stronger, training is just the stimulus

the amount of guys that start throwing in a million and one accessory movements to bring up a lagging body part yet still eat 2500 calories a day hoping to grow.. once you stop gaining weight usually (depending on the level of development you are at) the next thing to stall is strength and size and in some cases for the more advanced lifter you actually start to regress

training = stimulus 
food = growth


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Stephen9069 said:


> It depends were your struggling on the lift like Mingster said.
> 
> Were do you struggle most on that lift are you slow off the floor or do you struggle at lockout ?


 More so off the floor?


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## Endomorph84 (Jan 21, 2016)

rsd147 said:


> Assistance: 5x5 Deadlift 130kg, 3x10 Lat Pulldown, 3x10 Machine Rows


 Assistance should be hypertrophy rep range, 8-12 as mentioned

pick 3-4 exercises, both compound & isolation 3 sets x 8-12 reps. Pick whatever exercises you like that target the muscle group you are working.

Remember to use progressive overload, log your workouts if you don't already.


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

swole troll said:


> you want to increase your strength and technique (partially synonymous) yet are only hitting the big 3 lifts once per week
> 
> the bro split approach is 'acceptable' for VERY advanced lifters who require so much volume that they could not recover and hit the same muscle group with the same intensity more than once weekly (there are ways in which people in this scenario do hit the lifts multiple times per week but its off topic to your OP)
> 
> ...


 Really good post.

Only thing I would say is re doing the big lifts once a week I have done this for a long time and progressed well so it can be done, but completely agree re intensity. In my case I train to the point I need the week to recover.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

I swear you change your routine every few weeks mate :lol: Just pick something and stick with it for a while, deloading where necessary. So much easier to track and assess progress that way.


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## Stephen9069 (Dec 11, 2013)

rsd147 said:


> More so off the floor?


 Then deficits and speed reps would help with that.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

RS86 said:


> Really good post.
> 
> Only thing I would say is re doing the big lifts once a week I have done this for a long time and progressed well so it can be done, but completely agree re intensity. In my case I train to the point I need the week to recover.


 but do you do the conventional bro split of 'back, chest, legs, shoulders, arms ect' or are you hitting the big lifts once per week and then a very close accessory on the other days ?

the reason i ask is there would be a big difference in say squatting monday only and then not squatting nor doing close variants of the squat until the following monday compared to squatting monday and then coming back in thursday and either squatting again or doing a close variant like front squats, high bar or low bar (dependant on what was done monday) ect

hitting the big lifts multiple times per week has all of the above benefits that i linked in my op and there is also the matter of protein synthesis which is about a 48 hour window for those who are natural and the mildly enhanced

sure once you start chucking in very high doses of AAS, insulin, GH peptides this window is pushed out thus making less frequent training a viable option but for most people id say optimally in order to improve their big 3 or any major barbell movement for that matter would be best off at the very least hitting it twice weekly and depending on level of development that could be at a lower intensity focusing on explosiveness, a lower intensity focusing more on metabolic fatigue or hitting a close variant of the big 3

again the once per week approach will work but personally from the data i have seen plus real life evidence dont believe it to be the fastest way to a bigger squat, bench, deadlift

for example if you take two identical twins both of which are beyond their noob gains and are in the early intimidate phase of their lifting career, both fully capable of squatting twice per week and one chooses to have your typical 'leg day' of squats and a whole host of machine stuff whilst the other squats on a monday and then comes back on a thursday to squat again

after a year of training who is likely to have made more overall strength gains on their squat?

the guy who has performed 1560 repetitions at 85% of his 1rm by squatting 3x5 twice weekly 
or
the guy who has performed 780 repetitions at 85% of his 1rm by squatting 3x5 once weekly but also doing a whole load of other fluff with little to no carry over to free weight movements and had fully adapted to his training stimulus within 48 hours of his 'leg day'

the logic behind excessive amounts of volume ie days dedicated to body parts bafffles me because if we are completely disregarding protein sysnthesis and limited amounts of stimuli then why not have the full 12 hours of each day dedicated to a body part and hit hundreds of sets if there is an unlimited amount of stimulus the body can adapt to surely this would be a no brainer on a week off work?

the reason we dont is because it only takes about half the volume most people train at in order to attain full stimulus to adaptation

EDIT - whatever youre doing is working as you look in good nick, all of the above is just my opinion and im strictly stating that i do not believe the once per week to be *optimal* i am NOT saying it is futile


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## Ken Hutchinson (May 29, 2009)

Have a look at this


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

to bench a lot you have to bench a lot .


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

rsd147 said:


> Thanks for this. So would you just do the one exercise and finish there.
> 
> For example this morning, haven't been well so:
> 
> ...


 Currently I have a squat day and a bench day. I would have a deads day but I have a bicep injury presently. I'm attempting to build my 1RM's after a period away from strength training so don't do any accessory work. I run 6 week training cycles where I build from 80% up to 95/97.5%, then a 1RM attempt on the 6 th week. The first week of each cycle is a deload week at 60% focusing on bar speed.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

I bench twice a week and make a small gain every week without fail except if I'm ill that week. I've been back in the gym since last June so benching for 8 months.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

inbox me your email address i`ll send you a spreadsheet i use


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

swole troll said:


> but do you do the conventional bro split of 'back, chest, legs, shoulders, arms ect' or are you hitting the big lifts once per week and then a very close accessory on the other days ?
> 
> the reason i ask is there would be a big difference in say squatting monday only and then not squatting nor doing close variants of the squat until the following monday compared to squatting monday and then coming back in thursday and either squatting again or doing a close variant like front squats, high bar or low bar (dependant on what was done monday) ect
> 
> ...


 I tend to work on a PPL basis with my accessory work done on the same day. Have done for quite a while. Also have never used what I would consider to be high doses of AAS, ie last cycle I did 300mg Deca 300mg test a week, this was the most I have ever used.

The benefit for me is increased cns recovery and plenty of time for connective tissue repair. Also vary volume as I occasionally use high volume routines like GVT over the 3 days.

Would like to try training as you have suggested to see the difference though.

Many ways to skin a cat.


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> to bench a lot you have to bench a lot .


 How much you benching these days Ewen?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

RS86 said:


> How much you benching these days Ewen?


 200 is my best so far however been working my bollocks off so training just hasnt happened however this past week ive finally had time so im aiming for some decent numbers this year buddy


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> 200 is my best so far however been working my bollocks off so training just hasnt happened however this past week ive finally had time so im aiming for some decent numbers this year buddy


 No legs though :001_tt2:


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

FelonE said:


> No legs though :001_tt2:


 haha took you a while :lol:


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> haha took you a while :lol:


 Lol you fvcker,I was gutted someone thought I didn't train legs haha


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

FelonE said:


> Lol you fvcker,I was gutted someone thought I didn't train legs haha


 they still do


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> they still do


 They fvcking do now.......cheers lol


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> 200 is my best so far however been working my bollocks off so training just hasnt happened however this past week ive finally had time so im aiming for some decent numbers this year buddy


 Nice. Last time I followed your journal was couple years back when you were having back issues so thats some good benching :thumb


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

RS86 said:


> Nice. Last time I followed your journal was couple years back when you were having back issues so thats some good benching :thumb


 cheers , i went onto some pretty big lifts and then life got in the way , i competed once last year winning the comp and im competing in june again , back is still bad and hinders everything i do which means my lifts have nearly halved but this will only be until i bounce back lol


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## 38945 (Nov 23, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> cheers , i went onto some pretty big lifts and then life got in the way , i competed once last year winning the comp and im competing in june again , back is still bad and hinders everything i do which means my lifts have nearly halved but this will only be until i bounce back lol


 Yeah HG told me you were defending your title again this year. Yeah I saw you had a lot going on not too long ago bud.

I'm coming down to do the novices (all 5'8 90kg of me hahaha).


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

RS86 said:


> Yeah HG told me you were defending your title again this year. Yeah I saw you had a lot going on not too long ago bud.
> 
> I'm coming down to do the novices (all 5'8 90kg of me hahaha).


 best of luck buddy


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## iSnatchUrSquat (Feb 4, 2016)

rsd147 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Looking at trying to improve my lifts again and get stronger. Training over 4 days and looking at working up to my 5rm each week. Once stalled, I will then look at triples and then doubles. My shoulders are weak and recently been doing clean and press over military press so doing to do one of the days on shoulders to hopefully bring up my Bench. Please see below:
> 
> ...


 its all wrong IMO

try smth deadlift/clean pull,squat,press(military or bench) + acc work 5 x week


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

smith dead lift lol


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Don't clog up an informative thread guys. This has been dealt with.


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## Bataz (Jan 21, 2014)

Mingster said:


> Don't clog up an informative thread guys. This has been dealt with.


 Was just thinking the same. OP has had some solid advice so hopefully on his way towards his goals now.


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## rsd147 (Nov 14, 2012)

Bataz said:


> Was just thinking the same. OP has had some solid advice so hopefully on his way towards his goals now.


 I certainly have had some solid advice! Thanks for the advice, particularly @Mingster @Bataz


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