# arnold press or db raises?



## jimmy79 (Jul 1, 2009)

hello people just wonderd what you think is better for packing on shear mass normaly db press or the arnold raise? thanks people. :thumb:


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

No right answer.

Depends on your own bio-mechanics.

No reason not to include both though, variety is the key


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## jimmy79 (Jul 1, 2009)

nice one mate my shoulder day is quite packed already i think worried about over doing it

mill press 3 sets 0f 8

side raises 3 x 8

seated db press 3 x 8

front raises 3 x 8

do you thyink i could add 3 sets of arnold raises in aswell or is that too much?


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

my favourate shoulder exersise is seated millatary press behind the head, on a smith machine.

i love this for pasking on mass.


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## gold95 (May 23, 2009)

jimmy79 said:


> nice one mate my shoulder day is quite packed already i think worried about over doing it
> 
> mill press 3 sets 0f 8
> 
> ...


i wouldn't add anymore exercises to ur shoulder workout. military press my fav shoulder exercise but add the front raise & seat DB press & thats 3 exercises hitting the front delt & 1 for lateral delts. do u do any rear delt exercises? some people do rear delts with back, it doesn't matter when u do them but i'd always try to do 1 rear delt exercise. so many people neglect the rear delt coz they can't see it the way they can see front & sides.

-2 front delt 1s. 1 pressing exercise from mil press & DB press is enough. then the front raises works the muscle from a different angle so u'll get better balance than doing 2 pressing exercises.

-lateral raises will give u that wider look. i prefare doing them seated rather than standing.

-bent over DB raises r a good rear delt exercise.

if ur working them hard they don't need tons of exercises...


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

I do

Military press x 4

Arnolds x 2

Side raises (dropset)

Shrugs x 3

I do rear delts on back day


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## TIMMY_432 (Aug 6, 2009)

jimmy79 said:


> nice one mate my shoulder day is quite packed already i think worried about over doing it
> 
> mill press 3 sets 0f 8
> 
> ...


...this was exactly my workout today bud

:thumb:


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## soggy beer mat (Apr 26, 2009)

when doing 3sets of 8 do you stick to a heavy weight throughout or progressively go up?


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## jimmy79 (Jul 1, 2009)

soggy beer mat said:


> when doing 3sets of 8 do you stick to a heavy weight throughout or progressively go up?


heavy as i can manage mate i always aim for 8 but sometimes i hit ten if i can, never call it a pb if i dont hit 10.


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## iopener (Jan 1, 2007)

Shoulder press. Arnold pressing is the work of the devil and IMO a certified RC killing exercise.


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

iopener said:


> Shoulder press. Arnold pressing is the work of the devil and IMO a certified RC killing exercise.


Care to elaborate?

IMO the arnold press when done right is less stressfull on the rotator cuff than a full range dumbell press - because the arm comes in front and the initial push is more direct extension than the dumbell press there isnt as much traction of the shoulder in the bottom position

if you look at alot of the strength/rehab coaches like Chek etc they seem to recommend variaions of the arnold press when dealing with those with rotator cuff issues (obviouisly this is not pure straight forrward as the shoulder complex can have many issues and maybe the issue is different that agreviates your shoulder) - but when comparing an exercise full range dumbell pressinjg vs arnold pressing there would be less stress woth the later IMO unless your only doing half reps on the dumbell press and anly lowering to the point of the top of your head?


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## iopener (Jan 1, 2007)

glen danbury said:


> Care to elaborate?
> 
> IMO the arnold press when done right is less stressfull on the rotator cuff than a full range dumbell press - because the arm comes in front and the initial push is more direct extension than the dumbell press there isnt as much traction of the shoulder in the bottom position
> 
> if you look at alot of the strength/rehab coaches like Chek etc they seem to recommend variaions of the arnold press when dealing with those with rotator cuff issues (obviouisly this is not pure straight forrward as the shoulder complex can have many issues and maybe the issue is different that agreviates your shoulder) - but when comparing an exercise full range dumbell pressinjg vs arnold pressing there would be less stress woth the later IMO unless your only doing half reps on the dumbell press and anly lowering to the point of the top of your head?


It isnt a natural movement. Same thing with behind the neck pressing.

If you use full range as in your elbows doing below your shoulders then i do that anyway. I go elbows parallel to shoulders and extend all the way up and push up like a shrug at the top of the movement.

When i train shoulders i train shoulders, not my triceps and other supporting musculature. hence why i dont go all the way down, i lose tension on the muscle im focusing on.

That and the fact that AP puts stress on muscles that may not be used to that much all at once. Youre essentially doing a external rotation with a very heavy weight and this can lead to injuries with RC. I have seen a lot of trainers complain of shoulder pain and every single one of them has been doing Arnold pressing.

My routine is this.

Seated DB press

Front raises and side raises Gironda Style

face pulls

RC work

Not had any issues since doing this and focusing a lot of work on rear delts and strengthening RC's


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

glen danbury said:


> Care to elaborate?
> 
> IMO the arnold press when done right is less stressfull on the rotator cuff than a full range dumbell press - because the arm comes in front and the initial push is more direct extension than the dumbell press there isnt as much traction of the shoulder in the bottom position
> 
> if you look at alot of the strength/rehab coaches like Chek etc they seem to recommend variaions of the arnold press when dealing with those with rotator cuff issues (obviouisly this is not pure straight forrward as the shoulder complex can have many issues and maybe the issue is different that agreviates your shoulder) - but when comparing an exercise full range dumbell pressinjg vs arnold pressing there would be less stress woth the later IMO unless your only doing half reps on the dumbell press and anly lowering to the point of the top of your head?


Agreed, poor form and excessive weight are almost always the cause of injuries. People just like to blame the exercise instead.

Same with machines- "Smith machine will ruin your shoulders etc" No, improper technique with the smith will 

Second thing we agree on :lol:


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

iopener said:


> It isnt a natural movement. Same thing with behind the neck pressing.
> 
> If you use full range as in your elbows doing below your shoulders then i do that anyway. I go elbows parallel to shoulders and extend all the way up and push up like a shrug at the top of the movement.
> 
> ...


in what way is going from extension to elevation not natural? its the only biomechanical way you can raise your arm overhead without decreasing subacromial space (one of the real culprits in RC problems and as would occur if you tried to get into elevation via abduction which is what a normal dumbell press does)

just a comment on the way you state you do your overhead pressing in that you state you shrug your shoulders upwards at the top - this is the total opposite of whats natural for your shoulders - to allow elevation without any pressure on the Rc and shoulder capsule you need for your scapula to be depressed and retracted which if you shrug at the top would not occur because you are doing the opposite by elevating and slightly protracting it - this is often cited as one of the number one reasons people get shoulder problems becasue the cant get into elevation with the scapula depressed as most bodybuilders are tight in the traps, lats and chest.

whilst i am not trying to be arkward I disagree nearly 100% with what you are stating regarding safe shoulder exercises

and chris - yes lets not make a habit of it :thumb:


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## arnold84 (Apr 14, 2008)

I physically cant do arnold press my arms dont allow it so i make do with seated military press. Heres my shoulder routine at the moment

db press

cable side raises

seat military press

cable rear delts

internal and external rotations for rotorcuff < very important imo.


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