# Advice on chest



## packin_heat (Apr 15, 2006)

I need some advive on how to get my lower chest to get formed and shaped. does anyone have some suggestions or exercises?

thanks in advance


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

You cannot shape your chest through excercise.

Its already genetically decided what shape your muscle will take on.

Also to clear confusion, your pectoral is not broken up into upper middle and lower as you may believe it to be. Your pectoral muscle is one whole muscle.

You can help shape the appearance of your chest by lowering your bodyfat and increasing the mass in your chest(pectoral).

Its all through excercise and diet. Nail it.

MP.


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## packin_heat (Apr 15, 2006)

oh aright. thanks for the help


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

packin_heat said:


> I need some advive on how to get my lower chest to get formed and shaped. does anyone have some suggestions or exercises?
> 
> thanks in advance


Dips and declines. Although MP is correct.


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

dips dips dips dips


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

BIG-UNC said:


> dips dips dips dips


It aint just all about the dips.

People overlook decline dumbell because they are awkward to do, however they are an awesome excerise.

MP.


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## Dudex (Sep 6, 2005)

I thought (and am probably wrong) that the chest consisted of pectoralis major and minor, the major being the larger and connected to the scapula (collar bone) and the sternum (chest) and running across to the humerus (arm). The minor runs from ribs 3, 4 and 5 to the scapula. If developed you can see the minor, looks like a small ridge arcing off of the major just below the nipple.

Personally declines seemed to work the minor more, and I could see the muscle, looked a little bit weird (lol).


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Dudex said:


> I thought (and am probably wrong) that the chest consisted of pectoralis major and minor, the major being the larger and connected to the scapula (collar bone) and the sternum (chest) and running across to the humerus (arm). The minor runs from ribs 3, 4 and 5 to the scapula. If developed you can see the minor, looks like a small ridge arcing off of the major just below the nipple.
> 
> Personally declines seemed to work the minor more, and I could see the muscle, looked a little bit weird (lol).


Indeed but from a begineer point of view i thought id keep it simple.

Simply, you CANNOT isolate any one part of your chest. As far as your minors go, they are exactly that, minor and you will not be able to specifically bring them into isolation work.

Reason for advising the decline work is because they bring into play your anterior delts more then any other benching excercise(other then dceline barbell) and this helps towards benching and pushing excercises in general.

IMO the biggest part of the chest that you can bring up, would be the up region which is the clavicular head. Through dumbell incline presses this part of your chest comes into play more then using any other incline work.

But as my orginal point was, your chest is not broken into a Upper Middle and Lower and many believe. There is no 3 way split. The minors are irrelevant in the big scheme of developing your chest.

MP.


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## Dudex (Sep 6, 2005)

Sorry MP wasnt attacking your advice or anything, I agree that you cant seperate lower, middle and upper. Also agree genetics are a big factor, was just saying about major and minor.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Not at all mate. These forums are here to raise questions and learn from eachother.

Only ive answered that question 100 times acorss boards and it gets repetitive, so i try and keep it simple for beginners and just prefer they concnetrate on getting excercise form and execution right before they worry about the science.. 

Dnt worry i didnt think you were attacking my advice in anycase, sorry if it came across as agressive! lol:love: too.

MP.


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

this thread has summed it up perfectly - nice one majesticpower 

a muscle can only do 3 things....

get bigger

get smaller

stay the same size

shape is already determined - you cannot 'shape' a muscle


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Majesticpower said:


> ... so i try and keep it simple for beginners and just prefer they concnetrate on getting excercise form and execution right before they worry about the science...


Fookin love ya man, so many times i've seen replies to simple questions with 45 lines of science banter to tell someone to eat more or squat more to build legs.

I personally dont want to know that someone has a masters in biology - fair play but please does the average Joe understand or care? I like it simple, to the point and helpful.

If someone asks a detailed question then fair play go for the text book response, but on where it is required.

Majestic reps due bro.....please post some more I like your style.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Thanks alot guys, its nice to see people like yourselfs on boards like these.

Its all too easy to impress and confuse with science jargon. One thing science cannot account for anyway, is how me and you will react to a certain dose of training.

I'll be happy to stick around aslong as no one has a problem with that.. And if anyone does.. Tough.. 

MP.


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

MP,

I too like what you have to say.

Decline dumbell:

How is that done exactly? Is there a link to correct technique and form?

For a beginner what weight to you recommend to use and how many reps?


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Thanks peggy..(can i call you peggy? lol)

To be honest mate just use your imagination if you havent the facilities. Aslong as you dont attach a rope to the end of a bench and suspend it from the celing or anything like that.

I often get a dumbell bench and just hook the end of it onto the smith machine bar so u can adjust the height u need.

Though my gym let me do pretty much what i want, so i dont know how your gym owner would feel about that.

Other then that you could try and perform them on a decline barbell bench ofcourse.

Thats why many dont do decline dumbells because of the awkwardness, but as far as muscle fibre breakdown goes (if you believe in science*) they are one of the best chest excercises you can do, and you will know it from the Doms(however NOTE: DOMS is not an indication of how well you have necessarily trained).

DOMS - Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (For those who dont know what DOMS stands for ofcourse)

* Just to note, im not someone who specifically take what science says as gospel. So when i advise soemthing i do so knowing its not only worked for me but many other of my guinea pigs (lol).

I know many people do take science as the gospel truth, and i havent a big problem with that, however i do have a problem with people who dont think outside the box (science box that is) and will exclude the opinion of others if science does not back up their claims.

Ive always said not any one piece of advice is set in stone, science is still about individuals, what works for 1,000 individuals wont always work for you, and vice versa.

Sorry for the waffling but just wanted to get that off my chest.. 

Still, i look forward to sharing and learning knowledge from you all.

''The person who thinks they know it all, knows nothing.''

MP.


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## wiseguy83 (Mar 26, 2006)

scoops,decline dumbel press,dips and of course time


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Majestic please do stick around fella, sounds like you know your stuff!

Post a hello in the general section and tell everyone about yourself. See you around - well your posts anyway


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

He has been around for awhile actually.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

jamiedsmith1981 said:


> Majestic please do stick around fella, sounds like you know your stuff!
> 
> Post a hello in the general section and tell everyone about yourself. See you around - well your posts anyway


Thank buddy.

As Hacksi says ive been around just not on.

Only re-discovered this site again. I dont really post many places, just here and Musclezone to be honest.

I'll try and stick around and offer help where i feel i can.

Cheers,

MP.


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

hello majesticpower how come youve got a pair of legs for arms!!! they look huge mate.. i like your no bullsh1t way of getting your point across....nice to meet ya

how big are those things youve got attached to your shoulders anyway?


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

wiseguy83 said:


> scoops


what are these mate?


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Lol.

Currently 21.5 inches. Steroid free, as nature intended.. 

MP.


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

Majesticpower said:


> Lol.
> 
> Currently 21.5 inches. Steroid free, as nature intended..
> 
> ...


fcuk me they're nearlly as big as mine !!! lol i wish looks as if your forearms are bigger than mine :boohoo:


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

you never done any gear at all then mp? ever?


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

BIG-UNC said:


> you never done any gear at all then mp? ever?


Never at all mate.

Got abit of a phobia of sticking myself for one. But other then that i just aint ready for gear.

Im proud being natural, and believe in achieving my natural genetic limit before playing with the idea of AAS use.

All in all though, i have done pretty well in my training, a combo of knowing what my body needs and how much dosage it needs it.

I've learnt to instinctively train, and to know what my body needs and how much it needs it.

Everyone can gain big from their training, its just a matter of knowing how, when and how much.

MP.


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## BIG-UNC (Feb 27, 2006)

wish i could find tried allsorts

tell you what mp your gonna b one scary sized motha when you do go on the gear mate...fcuk me!


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Going to be scary? I would say he has already acheaved that.


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## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

winger said:


> Going to be scary? I would say he has already acheaved that.


There's a pic floating around of him showing his unearthly blue eyes in a shadowed background, never seen anything scarier since I watched The Omen....



Just joking mate. MP, you've come a damn long way in a very short period of time - you were in your teens when I first posted on Muscletalk, which probably just puts you in your 20's now.

21.5" guns in your TWENTIES - cut it any way you want, that is amazing going.

KS


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Lol thanks mate.

The picture of me in my sig flexing my biceps is actually me at 18 mate and i had 18.5 inch arms then, so its not like ive made a HUUGE gain's since those 5 years..  Just steady, but every inch helps.. 

MP.


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## big (Sep 14, 2004)

Majesticpower said:


> but every inch helps..


Never has a truer word been said


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## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

Majesticpower said:


> Lol thanks mate.
> 
> The picture of me in my sig flexing my biceps is actually me at 18 mate and i had 18.5 inch arms then, so its not like ive made a HUUGE gain's since those 5 years..  Just steady, but every inch helps..
> 
> MP.


How about the rest of your stats? Height/weight, what's the tale of the tape??

KS


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Keyser Soze said:


> How about the rest of your stats? Height/weight, what's the tale of the tape of the tackle??
> 
> KS


what's the tale of the tape of the tackle??

Sorry, just had to do that...heeee heeeee:love:


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## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

hackskii said:


> what's the tale of the tape of the tackle??
> 
> Sorry, just had to do that...heeee heeeee:love:


Never taken a tape-measure to it, but somewhere between Red Bull can and a Coke can...

Sorry Hacks, but YOU went there first...

:tongue10:

KS


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> but every inch helps..
> 
> MP.


I could use an extra inch or two.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Keyser Soze said:


> How about the rest of your stats? Height/weight, what's the tale of the tape??
> 
> KS


6 foot, currently only around 280lbs as im trying to regain a good 10 lbs of lean muscle mass while trying to loose around 5lbs of bodyfat. Not easy.

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> 6 foot, currently only around 280lbs as im trying to regain a good 10 lbs of lean muscle mass while trying to loose around 5lbs of bodyfat. Not easy.
> 
> MP.


I am still trying to do that.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

winger said:


> I am still trying to do that.


Thing is wingman, shouldnt be anywhere near as hard as 'before'. Thankfully to somthing called muscle memory.. 

As ive come down from 295lbs getting back there leaner will be the real challange.

But hey, people should take off a few months here and there. Works wonders.. 

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> But hey, people should take off a few months here and there. Works wonders..
> 
> MP.


I have such a hard time doing that. My (rather large) ego just doesn't let that happen. 

You are still my hero though!

MP, is a father now! Now he really is my hero times two!


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

I believe you can shape your chest muscle - I can train the outside of my chest by doing flys - I can target the upper chest by doing inclines - I can hit the inside of my chest by narrowing my grip - and I can hit my lower chest by using dips declines etc.


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## Keyser Soze (Dec 12, 2005)

Majesticpower said:


> 6 foot, currently only around 280lbs as im trying to regain a good 10 lbs of lean muscle mass while trying to loose around 5lbs of bodyfat. Not easy.
> 
> MP.


"ONLY" 280Ibs? Sweet heavens above, that is MASSIVE!!

If you're still anywhere as lean as you are in that photo that's still amazing. Likewise, I've got big plans for this summer, but sadly I've still got 30-40Ibs to cut - can't wait for that phase to be over, because I'm an natural bulker.

I'm the same height, but haven't weighed myself for ages....probably around 17-18Stones, and 17.5" bi's.

KS


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Majesticpower said:


> Thing is wingman, shouldnt be anywhere near as hard as 'before'. Thankfully to somthing called muscle memory..
> 
> As ive come down from 295lbs getting back there leaner will be the real challange.
> 
> ...


What you eating dude?


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Ironman said:


> I believe you can shape your chest muscle - I can train the outside of my chest by doing flys - I can target the upper chest by doing inclines - I can hit the inside of my chest by narrowing my grip - and I can hit my lower chest by using dips declines etc.


I know what you are saying, but as the whole of the whole of the pectoral contracts as one, and you cannot isolate areas of the chest, sepcifically shaping the chest is just not possible.

What you are finding, is your chest being shaped through increased mass- by changing your excercise to say flyes etc you are breaking down muscle fibres which are not normally broken down with say incline dumbell press.

I mean if that theory was true, if you were to just purely train with declines and nothing else for a year, the lower part of your chest would overpower the rest of you, making your chest appear upside down no?

I can understand why you feel you may be able to shape your chest through specific excercises though, but this isnt really 'isolating' training. Its just that you are enjoying increased mass of your pecs rather then 'shape' an area of your chest.

Its similar with say the biceps. They can only grow into one shape- The shape thats been genetically decided. However by using a varying group of excercises you enphasise a wider range of muscle fibres to be broken down, the same as you would with your chest.

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Dont you have a pectoralis major and minor?


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

winger said:


> Dont you have a pectoralis major and minor?


Yes mate. However it is insignificant compared to the pectoral major.

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> Yes mate. However it is insignificant compared to the pectoral major.
> 
> MP.


I know that, I was just trying to invoke thought.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

winger said:


> I know that, I was just trying to invoke thought.


Then you failed... Try again..:rage:

MP.:tongue10:


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

So are you saying that one guy can do declines and another guy can do inclines and both will build the same upper chest if they have identical genetics?


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

winger said:


> So are you saying that one guy can do declines and another guy can do inclines and both will build the same upper chest if they have identical genetics?


Not at all. Some excercises are the same, and they train the exact same muscle, however some excercises train a muscle better then others.

The reason we dont all stick to the one excercise, is because of how quickly the body adapts. Hence the need to 'shock' the body into new growth, by giving it something new to learn and excel at.

What im saying is there is no one part of your chest that you can have overpower another. Its not possible, due to the way the chest is formed. Even if your only performed declines, the lower part of your chest would not form over the the top - Thats my point.

There is non if this upper middle lower regions, now matter how much you try and convince yourself otherwise.

Doing declines is not a great mass buillder really if you do it very often, it is good for building strength with a barbell though.

However many dont do declines often so you are in essence regenrating new growth by breaking down muscles fibres which are not usually broken down from hitting your chest at different angles.

This does not mean you are speciafically only breaking down fibres in your 'lower' chest.

When you train at decline, your pectoral major is still contracting as one. So hence, you cannot isolate.

Does that make more sense now?

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> Does that make more sense now?
> 
> MP.


It always did make sense and I never disagreed with you.

I just like to see you post!


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

winger said:


> It always did make sense and I never disagreed with you.
> 
> I just like to see you post!


Didnt mean that to sound rude buddy.

I also didnt think you were diagreeing with me, and even if you were im fine with that. We wont all ever agree on exactly the same thing, if we did we would all be married to one another.. mg:

I just looked back at my previous post and thought i should have made clearer what i was saying. It would help if i posted at more sane hours, and not when im not thinking too clearly. 

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> It would help if i posted at more sane hours, and not when im not thinking too clearly.
> 
> MP.


If you post any clearer you would be reading minds.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Get a room you two


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

jamiedsmith1981 said:


> Get a room you two


Just as long as he's buying. 

My own line used against me.....doooooh :boohoo:


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I think I might just well do declines.

Have not done them in probably 20 years.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

hackskii said:


> I think I might just well do declines.
> 
> Have not done them in probably 20 years.


Damn, your chest is in for a serious shock then, which is all good.

Use dumbells if you can mate.

MP.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

I do like the idea of the DB as if you do a decline the length of the lift can be short if doing bar.

I think I will try that tomorrow on my chest day.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Declines are defo better when performed with DB's, you can really feel the muscle working, as Hacks said the bar is kind off restrictive and the ROM is not too good. I also like doing cable flies whilst stood upright as this gives me the same sort of pump.

20 yrs bro thats almost as old as I am!!! I hope i'm still working out and writing on a forum tellin others useful stuff 

Wing man, dont worry your still the king of the 1-liners on UK-M


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Thats right, but other then that the dumbell breaks down a far broader range of muscle firbres then the barbell.

The dumbell requires more stabilizing then a barbell.

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

jamiedsmith1981 said:


> Wing man, dont worry your still the king of the 1-liners on UK-M


Thanks mate, humor has it advantages. 



Majesticpower said:


> Thats right, but other then that the dumbell breaks down a far broader range of muscle firbres then the barbell.
> 
> The dumbell requires more stabilizing then a barbell.
> 
> MP.


Dont forget that one rep max situp on a DB decline eather.


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## Ironman (Jul 12, 2005)

Not to keep oposing whats being said - but I find I can get a better contraction in my chest using a bar rather than dumbells. I find I can concentrate on my pecs more using a bar rather than concentrating on stabalising dumbells. Also I can lift more using a bar which can only be a positive thing.


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## Peg (Feb 9, 2006)

Is this decline DB movement a movement for beginners?

oops wrong thread and forum, sorry...

Having a blonde moment! :bounce:  

LOL


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## crazycacti (Jun 20, 2004)

how does every one whack up the heavy bells on the decline - its easy on flat, inc. and shooulder presses - self explanitory, but how does everyone do it on decline benches?


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## BL1 (Jan 8, 2006)

MP - some nice posts my friend.

When you get a mo could you post your workout routine. Would be interested to see how you keep that natural physique. I'd like to train without gear after my shoulder op. - cheers BL1


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## Swift (Apr 14, 2006)

MP great posts mate, wudn't mind seein ur routine


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Guys,

My routine changes very often.

There isnt a set out routine i use for months on end, as i often train instinctively my routine changes accordingly.

As a general rule my rep range for chest, back, shoulders and legs is as follows, 4-6 for chest, 4-8 for back, 6-8 for shoulders and 8-12 for legs. This is the kind of rep range that i find most effective for myself, more often then not unless i feel the need for a change.

At the moment i am doing an all round body routine.

Drop setting is an effectiive method i implement into my training along with supersetting on certain excercises.

I will locate some routines i have done in the past that i had alot of joy with, and post them up for you soon.

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Majesticpower said:


> I will locate some routines i have done in the past that i had alot of joy with, and post them up for you soon.
> 
> MP.


Good man, cause inquiring minds want to no!


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## BL1 (Jan 8, 2006)

Majesticpower said:


> Guys,
> 
> My routine changes very often.
> 
> ...


Cheers mate.


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## Majesticpower (Jul 22, 2004)

Sorry for the delay gents, been seriously busy.

Anyway, my routine that i have had great joy with in the past is as follows.

Bare in mind though, that dependent on when i enter the gym i sometimes change excercises around and use certain techniques and/or rep ranges.

Heres one of my favourite 3 day routines that i threw together a few years ago...

*Monday*- Back, Traps & Biceps

Deadlift- 3 x 4-6

Bent over dumbell row - 3x6-8

Hammer strength Rows 2x 4-6

Pull ups (2 set wide grip to failure/2 set close grip to near failure)

Shrugs 3x 6-10

Upright rows barbell 2x8-10

Dumbell bicep curls 2x6- to failure

Preacher curl 2x to failure

Tuesday - Rest

*Wednesday* - Chest & Triceps

Bench press 3x6-8

Incline dumbell press 3x6-8

Decline dumbell/Barbell press 3x6-8

2 x dips(to failure)

Close grip benchpress 3x6-8

Skull crushers 3x6-8

Single hand tricep pulldowns 2x to failure

Thursday- Rest

*Friday* - Legs, Shoulders & Abs

Right this may look strange to some newbies, but its somthing that can be hugely effective, but basically on a couple of excercises i would alternate(superset) between excercises.

So in other words, i would finish doing on excercise, then go to another, and then back again etc..

Squats 4x10-16

Stiff legged deadlift 3x8-12 alternated(supersets) with Sit down dumbell shoulder press 3x 6-8

Calf raises 3x12-18 supersetted with Dumbell side laterals 3x 8-10

Front raise 2x6-8 supersetted with Dumbell rear lateral raise 2x6-8.

Saturday & Sunday, well deserved rest...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I always train with a rep range where i load the weight up to push my body to the limit, theres no point meeting a certain rep range, where you can continue on for another 4 or so reps.

It takes time with new excercises to adjust to certain weights, but you must find a rep range that pushes you to near limit or failure on certain excercises, and then improve upon those poundages month on month out. - Thats one of our main aims, wheather you want to admit ot or not.

When i do higher reps, again i adjust so those reps are achievable- Just about.

Any questions wanted to be ask please feel free.

I will post up other routines in due course, that one is a pretty demanding one with high intensity as far as volume but its a routine i NEVER ever took lightly and made some of my best gains from.

My usual preferred routine would be a certain 4 day split, however time permits me from doing them too often, so 3 day routine is often best.

MP.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Very nice MP.


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