# London1976 2011 routine ??



## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Been looking through my new Strength Training Anatomy book for some new routines and i have come up with this. Negatives and positives feedback appreciated..

CHEST.

INCLINE BENCH PRESS

DECLINE BENCH PRESS

PRESS MACHINE

PEC DEC

TRICEPS.

ONE ARM REVERSE PUSH DOWNS

DIPS

CLOSE GRIP BENCH

PUSH UPS

BACK.

DEADLIFTING

WIDE CHINS

BARBELL ROWS

CLOSE GRIP LAT PULLDOWNS

BICEPS

BARBELL CURLS

CONCENTRATION CURLS

HAMMER CURLS

LEGS

SQUATS

LEG PRESSES

SEATED LEG CURLS

SEATED BARBELL CALF RAISES

SHOULDERS

SEATED FRONT PRESS

ARNOLD PRESS

LATERAL DUMBELL RAISES

BENTOVER LATERAL RAISES

ALTERNATE FRONT ARM RAISES

TRAPZ

UPRIGHT ROWS

SHRUGS

FOREARMS

WRIST CURLS

REVERSE WRIST CURLS

ABS

HANGING LEG RAISES

CABLE CRUNCHES

PLENTY OF CORE WORKOUTS

DEBATING WHETHER TO DO ALL COMPOUNDS @ 3X10 OR 4X8

ISOLATIONS @ 3X10


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Don't be shy and let me know lol


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

I would add some seated cable flys slightly declined,Looking at your chest it's coming along alot and I think you will benefit from these alot.

The rest looks ok to me 3/4x10 I would choose one warm up set.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

looks like a standard 3-4 day spit.

i dont think YOU will grow on it, but try it if ya want.

more exercises just means a dilution of effort and energy and you can only spread it so thinly.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

I see no need or point in decline bench press......I did it for years and got no benefit from it, stick with the flat and incline


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## BMG (Dec 9, 2010)

i would say half the young lads at my gym do a similar split like this. It looks like too much volume for me. Or am I just lazy? lol

No harm in giving it ago though


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I've always done flat and incline so I thought I do declines for a while and see what happens. This will be a 3 day split cal. The book I have is excellent.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I watched a interview with Dorian yates and he's says that declines are better than flat ??


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

London1976 said:


> I watched a interview with Dorian yates and he's says that declines are better than flat ??


Dorian's body structure didn't suit him to do flat benching and he got many injuries from it. Yours, London, might be different. Try some declines and see how it feels. Personally declines don't work too good for myself and I prefer flat and incline presses.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I've done declines before and I do like them. I think I will see how I get on with them for now


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

PScarb said:


> I see no need or point in decline bench press......I did it for years and got no benefit from it, stick with the flat and incline


Sorry mate I meant incline cable flys..... Doooooh!!!


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## llkevh (Jun 23, 2010)

for me personally mate i think there are too many exercises per body part but you seem to have all the bases covered


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

They range from 6-12 sets each bodypart which I know is ok for me because i normally do 12 sets per bodypart and all sets heavy.


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

London1976 said:


> I watched a interview with Dorian yates and he's says that declines are better than flat ??


flat bench actually simulates more lower pec fibres then decline.,

like some one said already,if i recall he said flat didnt suit his body structure, i also believe it doesn't really suit his style of training to a degree. his HIT training aims for you to lift at a weight that means you will reach failure in one working set. lifting heavy on flat requires more of a power lifting form then bodybuilding. also decline is often peoples strongest bench as it gives 100% more lat stimulation on the negative due to the angle which means your chest can concentrate on the press more.

as for your routine, the volume is unnecessarily high mate.

eg;



London1976 said:


> SEATED FRONT PRESS
> 
> ARNOLD PRESS
> 
> ALTERNATE FRONT ARM RAISES


your working the front delt with all 3 exercises, its only a small muscle.

if



London1976 said:


> and all sets heavy


 like you say they are, this should barely be possible (unless your on gear)

i don't want to pick it apart, but if your using your time in the gym effectively, you wont need to do multiple variations of the same exercises that work the same muscle. give each exercises every thing you've got when you pick up the weight and you wont need as many


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## calver11 (Dec 7, 2009)

For me London you have gone against everything you have preached about training this last year. I know my training is not perfect but I personall think it is to much volume. I tried something similar not long ago becuase I wanted to mix things up and be different to what others have said but sometimes its best to stick to what you know works.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Why do people think this is too much volume? Please explain.

Declines will work the lower part of the pecs more than flat.


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

You get through more routines than I have hot dinners! LOL

I am trying the decline bench press as per the Dorian 6 week plan. Will evaluate progress after the 6 weeks. I really do think you should stick with something for at least 6-8 weeks to see if it is working.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

do some dips and call it triceps if you need too..

that way youve got youre "angles" covered..



> I tried something similar not long ago becuase I wanted to mix things up and be different to what others have said but sometimes its best to stick to what you know works.


ive done that too...

its safest to assume that basic and less will grow more muscle or whatever than hitting all the angles and mixing things up...

find out if youre a genuine easy gainer before assuming it.

you`ll save years...

years that i wasted..


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## fishfingers (Feb 27, 2009)

TRICEPS.

ONE ARM REVERSE PUSH DOWNS

DIPS

CLOSE GRIP BENCH

PUSH UPS

Personally i would do close grip first and already been mentioned but dips (weighted if you can)

DEBATING WHETHER TO DO ALL COMPOUNDS @ 3X10 OR 4X8

ISOLATIONS @ 3X10

I never understand why peple stick to 3x10 and i quote that rep set range. When i start a set i know approx how many reps im guna be lifting for, but if i get there and there is a loada steam left in the engine i bang a few more out. I think too many people are caught up with how many reps how many sets what about rest time etc etc.

Personally i think you would benefit more from a 3 day split push/pull/ legs, heavy compounds. Ive grown loads from this kind of training but then again we are all different.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

reps and sets arent as important as how you treat failure in each of them.


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## fishfingers (Feb 27, 2009)

TheCrazyCal said:


> reps and sets arent as important as how you treat failure in each of them.


Straight from the horses mouth :clap2:


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

London1976 said:


> Why do people think this is too much volume? Please explain.


you don't need multiple exercise that are just a variation of the same thing.

if you increase the intensity you will soon see that your volume is not practical



London1976 said:


> Declines will work the lower part of the pecs more than flat.


will it? how did you work that out then?

quote from Barnett EMG study

"One of the most common assumptions in the world of iron is that the decline bench is the best for developing the lower pecs. However, this familiar premise may be nothing more than another unfounded gym myth. According to the Barnett EMG study, the flat bench produced much more electrical energy in the lower pecs than did either the decline or incline positions. "I agree with this research" says NPC National Champion and pro bodybuilder Jay Cutler, "The flat bench is much better for lower pec development than the decline.""

a few studies seem to suggest other wise :clap2:


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I will go with what my book says for now( strenght anatomy training ) over a million copies sold worldwide. I still think declines work more lower pec. Incline for upper, flat for more middle and lower so declines for lower. It kinda makes sense.


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

Surely you can feel what each exercise is working what muscle. Decline makes my whole chest area pump up and I can lift more weight as well suggesting more chest muscles utilised and less from the delts.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

When im doing declines I can defo feel it more on the lower pecs. Everyone has a different opinion and mine is declines for lower pecs.


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

mightymariner said:


> Surely you can feel what each exercise is working what muscle. Decline makes my whole chest area pump up and I can lift more weight as well suggesting more chest muscles utilised and less from the delts.


Exactly

Watch this clip and Dorian will explain his theory on decline press.

Bodybuilding.com Videos - Dorian Yates' Blood & Guts Trainer: Chest & Biceps


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

London1976 said:


> I will go with what my book says for now( strenght anatomy training ) over a million copies sold worldwide. I still think declines work more lower pec. Incline for upper, flat for more middle and lower so declines for lower. It kinda makes sense.


science is a ever evolving subject, what you think and what can be scientifically proved are to different things. the number of copy's a 5 year old book sales are irrelevent to the new information studies uncover on a regular bases.



London1976 said:


> When im doing declines I can defo feel it more on the lower pecs. Everyone has a different opinion and mine is declines for lower pecs.


try to tense your "lower pecs" with out tensing the rest... you cant as its one muscle, their isn't a separate upper , middle and lower part.

the angle of a exercise can put more enthusiasm on a particularly area of a muscle, but that is not the case with the decline bench. the studies speak for them selfs mate.



mightymariner said:


> Surely you can feel what each exercise is working what muscle


not necessarily, can you feel which head of your triceps is being simulated more if your change the angle of a extension?

and do remember the ROM on a decline bench lift is shorter

(makes a difference in the amount you can lift)


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I like declines and will keep doing them.


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

SpiTFirE said:


> try to tense your "lower pecs" with out tensing the rest... you cant as its one muscle, their isn't a separate upper , middle and lower part.









Think you may need to do a bit more research, before making such sweeping statements. Just look at Franco's chest ... It's clear to see a defined split between the upper and lower chest.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Thank you ronnie, you are the man.


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

most training ideas have been around for years and theyre often rehashed and given new names.

how a body part grows is down to genetics.

ive never done anything but incline bench.

ive ended up with excessively thick lower pecs and fcuk all upper pecs..

go figure..

flat bench stresses muscle more/ maybe thats cos you can lift more weight that way, i dunno...

bottom line if your lifestyle factors are good and your routine is good imeho your bodyparts will grow and the angle of the dangle for shall we say bench wont matter a fcuk...


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

SpiTFirE said:


> science is a ever evolving subject, what you think and what can be scientifically proved are to different things. the number of copy's a 5 year old book sales are irrelevent to the new information studies uncover on a regular bases.
> 
> try to tense your "lower pecs" with out tensing the rest... you cant as its one muscle, their isn't a separate upper , middle and lower part.
> 
> ...


So, you are telling me you can't feel incline press more in the upper pecs?

My opinion on decline press is that it stresses the chest muscles without overly using the front delts which IMO works the chest more and by your theory you can't exercise only one part any way. At the end of the day everyone will use what they think is working best for them.


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## Sparks1990 (Dec 9, 2010)

ive always found that the wider the grip on the bar the higher up on the pec it works.

Standard grip working the minor, and a wide grip working the major. Worked for me.


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

mightymariner said:


> So, you are telling me you can't feel incline press more in the upper pecs?


 to a degree you can, i stated that as a general rule of thumb you cant always feel what muscle is being worked over another.


mightymariner said:


> My opinion on decline press is that it stresses the chest muscles without overly using the front delts. by your theory you can't exercise only one part any way.


its not "my theory" its science, the same thing everyone bases there statements on no?.

indeed in a decline angle the anterior deltoid is assisting less, but like i said you are not isolating "lower chest". you can put emphasis on a portion, but your entire pectoral major is still being simulated



London1976 said:


> I like declines and will keep doing them.


then by all means keep doing them, i was just simply making you aware of the facts.



ronnie cutler said:


> Think you may need to do a bit more research, before making such sweeping statements. Just look at Franco's chest ... It's clear to see a defined split between the upper and lower chest.


could you name the two muscles ronnie?


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Yes it's still 1 muscle but doing declines will work more on lower part of the muscle.


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

London1976 said:


> Yes it's still 1 muscle but doing declines will work more on lower part of the muscle.


  is that london's opinion or scientific proof?


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

Have a look at Dorians theory


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm not a scientific person mate so I'll go by my own opinion and what works for me. I never really liked science in school, as a matter of fact I hated the subject.


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

mightymariner said:


> Have a look at Dorians theory


aye? i don't get the relevance?

(if you read my previous post iv spoke on Dorian's theory mate)



London1976 said:


> I'm not a scientific person mate so I'll go by my own opinion and what works for me. I never really liked science in school, as a matter of fact I hated the subject.


with that mind set, good luck with your training, supplementing, ect.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Cheers spit


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

I never said decline was just for lower pecs and at present it I use it alongside incline dumbbell press. I use the decline to take the stress off my shoulder joints.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm the one that said it works more lower pecs. Which I still believe is true.


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

SpiTFirE said:


> could you name the two muscles ronnie?













​


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

That deserves a rep ronnie cause you beat me to it.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Sorry ron I tried repping you but it wont let me  nice picture tho.


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

Cheers mate. After I gave you bad rep for a giggle, I tried to give you it back, but it wouldn't let me do it until I've given others a load first.

I think spitfire's gonna have something to say after seeing this slightly misleading picture though! Lol


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

Erm, who shall I believe, Ronnie who put this nice picture up, or Dorian Yates, 6 times MR Olympia, let me think?


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

So when you train your biceps Ronnie, will you concentrate on each head seperately as well?


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Me 2 ronnie. It says i need to spread some reps first but nobody on here is worth my reps lol


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

yannyboy said:


> So when you train your biceps Ronnie, will you concentrate on each head seperately as well?


Well to a degree yes. By alternating between DB's, BB, EZ bar and cables & hand position (pro, sup, close, wide) you can target all individual heads of the bicep.

I only got involved in this discussion as some people on this forum are so small minded when it comes to training. But in reality there are no single rules that are gonna work for everyone.

People shouldn't be so quick to refute what is working for one member. Our routines and workouts should be regularly updated and refined, safe in the knowledge we will never know absolutely everything there is to know about this sport we all obviously feel so passionately about!

"Train hard, train with heart" - Jay Cutler


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

London1976 said:


> Me 2 ronnie. It says i need to spread some reps first but nobody on here is worth my reps lol


Something we totally agree on!! Lol


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## yannyboy (Jun 20, 2009)

I agree with you Ronnie, there is no 100% way to train


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

soz ronnie that pic says nothing about 2 separate pec muscles that are visible on the surface.

pectoralis minor sits underneath the pec major and isnt visible.

"The pectoralis minor muscle is a small triangular shaped muscle that lies deep to pectoralis major muscle and passes as three muscular slips from the thoracic wall (ribs III to V) to the coracoid process of the scapula. Pectoralis minor draws the scapula forward and downward, and raises the ribs in forced inspiration"

that pic of franco is just sommat he could do to his chest, if not every bodybuilder of a certain level would have that separation.

imo dips are a superior choice to decline bench anway.

why do we never have these wide ranging debated on hamstring or calf growth i wonder...???


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

damn you cal you stole the words from my mouth lol. also have to agree with your first post, people so often take the word of a big name body builder as gospel, forgetting how big of a role genetics play.

you would be surprised how many bodybuilders don't even do the exercises that are considered gym essentials



ronnie cutler said:


> I think spitfire's gonna have something to say


no need, ignorance speak volumes



ronnie cutler said:


> I only got involved in this discussion as some people on this forum are so small minded when it comes to training.


slightly ironic , but who's small minded?,

i stating that EMG test can prove that there is more muscle stimulation in the lower portion of the pectoral major when preforming a bench press on a flat bench over on at a decline angle....

i never refuted what works for people, i encourage London to continue using the exercise (even though i also agree dips are better if your shoulder can handle them?).


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## llkevh (Jun 23, 2010)

its not always helpfull showing pics of pro's cause these guys are freaks and i mean that in the nicest possible way. Especially regarding franco cause he is my all time favourate. As mortals i think sticking to the basics is the best and for me thats flat bench, decline, and dips. but i am loving the debate fellas. :tongue1:


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

lol i couldnt really care less either way..

pick a version of bench add some weight to the bar over a period of months and then try a different angle.

you simply dont need to hit every angle at the same time all the time..

if you added 20kg over a year which is half a kg a week you`d expect your chest to be bigger wouldnt you.

actually try that and then start overthinking, when and if, that doesnt work...


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## llkevh (Jun 23, 2010)

simples, lol


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

in theory yes lol...


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## ronnie cutler (Dec 29, 2009)

SpiTFirE said:


> there is more muscle stimulation in the lower portion of the pectoral major when preforming a bench press on a flat bench over on at a decline angle


and more assitance from the front delt on flat than decline, taking away effort from the pec


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

ronnie cutler said:


> and more assitance from the front delt on flat than decline, taking away effort from the pec


there is more assistances from the lats at a decline angle taking away effort from the the pec's during the negative. but thats irrelevant to the original fact, as is your post

i'm bewilder to what your point was...


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

I can't remember what the original fact was. LOL


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

All this agro cause im doing declines pmsl


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm sticking with 'em too.


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

I think spitfire is just trying to help!!

To everyone if something works for you then stick to it everyone is built different and reacts better to some exercises than others..


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

franki3 said:


> I think spitfire is just trying to help!!


thank you.

i didn't tell anybody that they are not allowed or shouldn't do declines, i simply informed people of the results of a study, i shared some sciences. but because it conflicts with what people think they know, it turns in to two pages of people trying to prove me wrong as if im one of the people that funded the study lol.


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## llkevh (Jun 23, 2010)

London1976 said:


> Been looking through my new Strength Training Anatomy book for some new routines and i have come up with this. Negatives and positives feedback appreciated..
> 
> are you sure lol :becky:


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## mightymariner (Mar 16, 2010)

That's why we write on the forums, to share our views. Healthy debate.:becky:


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Declines still work more lower pec


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## fishfingers (Feb 27, 2009)

London, do what you want dude this is getting ridiculous lol


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## crazycal1 (Sep 21, 2005)

london you should put all this effort into training your legs


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

Tell me about it fingers. Lol


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

SpiTFirE said:


> thank you,
> 
> i didn't tell anybody that they are not allowed or shouldn't do declines, i simply informed people of the results of a study, i shared some sciences. but because it conflicts with what people think they know, it turns in to two pages of people trying to prove me wrong as if im one of the people that funded the study lol.


Don't shoot the messenger!!!


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

i wasn't mate lol, i thanked you for pointing out i was helping. the rest wasn't aimed at you :kiss:


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

You will get tons of people who would say it's works lower more and you will also gets tons who will say no it don't.  I'd say what ever works for the individual.


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## London1976 (Oct 16, 2009)

What do you lot think about this:

Dropping the declines cause it don't really do nothing lol and maybe just do inclines @ 6 sets.


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## franki3 (Oct 11, 2009)

SpiTFirE said:


> i wasn't mate lol, i thanked you for pointing out i was helping. the rest wasn't aimed at you :kiss:


I meant the messenger being you mate.

Lol


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## SpiTFirE1466867971 (Aug 6, 2009)

oh... :doh: lol


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