# Carbs not looking good



## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I copied and pasted from this link.

http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2064&highlight=pete+pic

This is a must read from "ONE SMART COOKIE" It is the same stuff I have been talking about. Diet is key.

High protein low carb high fat diets are probably one of the things that

have caused so much confusion and debate in bodybuilding these past few

years,is it good to eat so much fat and protein and so few carbs,will it kill

you cause heart attacks and so forth.

High fat low carb diets have been around since the 18th century,they were

first introduced by a bloke who was having health peobs and was over weight(can`t remember his name)if memory serves me right I think he

was a doctor and he got such great results from it that he made up a

leaflet all about it.

They next surfaced in the early bodybuilding years with vince gironda and

one or two others being big advocates of it,then as the 80`s drew ever

closer it fell out of favour.

Atkins first brought it to the main stream public in the 70`s with his diet

revolution,but looking back over the history of the world they have been

about far far longer than we realise.

There once was a chap called stephanson(i think) that was studying the

eskimos in the late 1800`s,he was in poor health and in his 50`s,he spent

about 18 years living and sudying them adopting there ways and so forth.

When he returned to the western world(usa)he had some studies done to

see how his new lifestyle had effected him,he was amazed to find that he

was in far better health than what he had been when he first left,even

though he had been living off whale blubber and raw fish for most of the

time,he then procceded to write his studies up in a book called,man cannot

live by bread alone.

Are high fat diets bad for us,I say no,as long as we reduce our intake of

carbs,especially man made carbs.The human biology is thousands of years

old but our diet has only changed drastically this past 200years,there are

breeds of chickens that are far older than this.If you look at our anatomy

we where not made to eat so many carbs,but we were made to eat fats

and protein,pre historic man would go out kill a mamoth and eat it,he

would eat everything meat and fat,he wouldn`t say to the wife stick some

veggies on luv to go with this,so why should we?what about fibre you say?

he got his fibre (a)in the summer when the seasonal fruits came in to bloom and ( B) he would eat roots nut and seeds for this,now this is were

evolution comes in,for him to be able to absorb this very harsh roughage

he had a second stomach(just like the cow)he used his appendix which is

what it was origonaly designed for.thats why today we have so many

health problems associated with the appendix,it is not being used for what

it was meant for and just sits there doing nothing and rotting.

What happens when we eat carbs,we release insulin,what happens when

we eat fat we don`t release insulin,insulin is only needed when we are

hungry to shuttle the energy needed to were it is needed when we are out

on the plains chasing dinner,the body releases adrenaline which then

releases insulin,so you get the energy needed and the anger needed to

do the job at hand.

When you look through the different cultures of the worl who uses fat as

the main source of energy,eskimo,inuit,masai,english,english you say,yes

the english,when we were in america we brought back the humble potato

the indians thought we were crackers they never ever ate the potato they

say it as a poisonous item,we brought it back as a flower not an edable

item,we only started to use it as a food source for the poor and for

cultures we conquered,how you ask,we took all the best food and gave

them the potato to eat,this is what we did mainly with the irish,this is why

they suffered so much with the potato blight,they had nothing else left to

eat because we had taken it all,the incas and mayanes did the same thing

to tribes they conquered they took all the best food and left them crap

carbs to eat,just look at the spud it has a glycemic index of 98 nearly as

high as sugar,major insulin rush.

If high fat diets are so bad why are they being used to treat children with

severe epilepsy?because they calm the system,carbs only cause kaos in

the body and brain with all the rushes you and unstableness the cause,if

you eat fat it takes upto 6 hours to digest carbs upto 3 hours,this causes

probs with the chemicals in the brain and sets of the seizures,the high fat

diet readdresses that and calms everything back down.

what about cholesterol you say?cholesterol doesnot cause problems it is

tryglycerides that are the enemy,these are caused by sugar and fat being

around at the same time the body uses the sugar because it takes less

work to use than the fat and the body likes to do less work.Cholesterol

also helps us produce more testosterone and more test is good for us,you

cannot take in as much cholesterol as the body already producess.All the

tests done in medical studies about cholestrerol and heart attacks were

done on rabbits rabbits are vegetarian so what do you expect,a negative

responce to them being in the system.

So dump the carbs and welcome back fats it is what your body was made

for.

_________________

"I believed Dianabol had great potential,but

seeing the way it`s abused,I`m sorry I ever

invented it.All those young lives,destroyed.

John Ziegler 1972.This is a must read from


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

i think their is some truth to that, but mainly for lazy old ladies that dont go to the gym...or eskimos sitting in their igloos smoking fish guts all day......besides, the english have the high fat diet like americans, and now that ive been here they talk about england being the fattest country in europe now, catching right up with america...

the atkins diet has some merit in that if you dont have carbs to burn your body will burn the fats deposits.....but the most productive way to burn fat is by getting your lazy asses off the sofa and getting on a bike or treadmill...and the way calories work is carbs are the #1 source of energy #2 being fat, but in order to properly burn that fat you have to burn some carbs first....like ive said before think of lighting a fire, fat being the wook and carbs being the fuel....its going to take a long time to light that wood if you dont use the fuel to get it going.....

plus you also have to watch the fats you eat and more important is the type of cholesterol...Low Density and High Density...the proper cholesterol at the proper level will be your best friend...thats what that supp MYTHOXY was all about...

anyways, i could go on for hours but that will just bore you....


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Not boring at all. Let me throw something at you.

How long does it take to burn off an average vanilla shake at one of those fast food restaurants?

Answer. 50 minutes of running. Not jogging, running. So diet is key and cardio is secondary. With a clean diet your bf would be lean and cholesterol would be better. I am not going to say perfect because some people just produce allot of cholesterol.


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## miami797 (Feb 19, 2004)

glad you pointed out running and not jogging....alot of people think keeping a mild-steady pace on a treadmill or bike is cardio...when it's really just a waste.....well not a complete waste but its a waste if youre trying to burn fat and not just burn off carbs.....plus if youre trying to get the heart in good health you have to get the rates up pretty high...some say 60-70% of the resting heart rate but i was always made to go 80%....it's tough and it takes a while to get yourself fit enough to get your heart going that fast for upwards of 40 minutes but its worth it in the end....having a proper diet(for yourself not for what some book tells you) and excelent fitness does alot more for you and for alot longer then any winstrol cycle...

they had a special here since ive been in england on that atkins diet....pretty interesting if you ever get to see it over in the states...i'm recorded it but i have to re-record it to NTSC so i can show it to people when i get back to miami..........


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Well the best diet out in my opinion is "Enter the Zone" by Barry Sears. Hands down best of all. He is a biochemist and for some reason it is easy to read. First you find your lean muscle mass and then from there you can find out how much to eat and then space it out over 5 meals. Each meal is ballanced with a ratio of protein, carbs and fats. I got so ripped and kept all my strength and I felt so good. I am on a beer diet right now.


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## Pete1436114491 (Nov 3, 2003)

Winger, where would I get hold of the "Enter the Zone" diet?


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

in regards to target heart rate. a person can only fully comment after they have done a "origin" test. this measure % of carbs/fats burned at specific heart rates. jason wicker burns 100%fat from 95-160bpm of his max heart rate, but his RHR burn carbs only!!! granted he is in exellent shape all year round and is now officially a genetic freak, but il be having a test very soon along with my training partner and a powerlifter so i can pass comment after that


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

Sounds good mate keep us posted.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

Not only does the vo2 test determine target heart rate, it also pinpoints the ratios of fats/carbs used for energy in an individual!!

So this is why some guys advocate carbs over fats and vice versa.

I took the test with jason wicker back in march and he is a massive carb burner. I was a 50/50 burner of the two but as my heart rate increased, I used more and more fats!

The thread origonaly posted is a good read

http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2064&start=0

As is this one also on bio

http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1911&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

They are both worth a read


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

I want to get tested now. That sounds like very important information to know.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

winger said:


> I copied and pasted from this link.
> 
> http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2064&highlight=pete+pic
> 
> ...


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

For some reason the high fat diet on this forum goes against the grain a tad bit. I was honored to post that. It is the same thing I have been saying but cleaned up and writen much better than I can.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

I find the high fat diet gets a lot of flack from most forums,I got tons on muscle talk so I left,if people would only give things a try then they would see for themselves not just listen to some screwball hiding behind a computer screen spewing out tons of scientific data he has spent most of his life looking for just to trash somebody or something.

If people really want to look into the high fat stuff they should read bodyopus by duchaine damm good read,but in it he incorperates three different diets,2 before you even get to the high fat stuff,then he comes into his own on the high fat diet.

The high fat thing will always be around its been around for decades/centuries and will continue to be around,its up to the individual if the have the common sense/desire/intregue(sic)to actually try it and push it to its limits,2 months of trying a diet aint going to kill you(unless of course your bad cholesterol is of the chart),and to be honest I think deep down most pro`s actually use the high fat stuff at the begining of their diets and add the carbs as they get nearer,how else would they loose so much weight so quickly,even GH doesnt work that fast,but they wont come out and give all their secrets away,will they?


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Cooki, I do the Atkins with really good success.

I found I had more energy too, almost unlimited as a matter of fact.

I like how you dont retain as much water and the bloat just goes away.

The muscles do get a little flat but I notice less catabolism than on other diets.

You wont get flamed on this board so if you want to post go ahead. This board is kindof unique to the fact that all the guys are good guys. Some playing goes on but you wont get flammed here.

Thanks for the original post.


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## winger (Jul 26, 2003)

One Smart Cooki I am going to really enjoy your posts. Welcome to the board.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

yes i agree, one thing is niggling me though.

HAckskii said that he had unlimited energy during the Atkins diet, but i thought carbs was the primary source of energy utilised by the body, so how come he has so much energy without the carbs??? When i go to play sport, i always eat lots of carbs 2-3 hours before so i have an advantage over the people i play, and have found significant results. I would just like Dr. Wingy or HAcks to explain why this is as i am sure they already know


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Well, fat is the most efficient source of energy.

If too much carbs are taken in then this can make you tired from the rising and dropping of blood sugars.

Fats will keep the blood sugars pretty level or stable.

If you are storing the carbs as fat then you will feel tired. Because the meal got stored as fat from high blood sugars spiking and the insuline spikes in response to the blood sugars then your mind will call for more food because it did not get it from the last meas as it stored from fat.

Soon you will feel hungry (brain calling for more carbs) then you will eat again and this will start the process all over again.

Sensible eating will help here. Either eat foods low in the glycemic index or or add a fat and a protein to the carb to slow down the spiking of the blood sugars.

I cant wait for my post cycle this time. Bought alot of stuff for my post cycle. I also bought some stuff for ati-catabolism and bought a tread mill too, this time I am doing cardio and dieting.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

Yep, good to see you here cookie 

I must give cookie an introduction here.

OSC is one of those guys that strives for excellence in whatever he does, he is always trying to help others further themselves in bb'ing and will always give full attention to anyone that contacts him.

Cookie follows the works of his role models of yester year, constantly searching for "the old way" with a little osc twist of his own.

He has helped me with other problem areas of my life, as well as being a role model when I had my little hickup with nubain and ephadrine earlier this year, as he had been in simillar situations himself.

He is a good friend of myself, panthro ( thats superjoolz to you cookie) and big pete as well as all others at bio.

If you want to read his section at biohazard, here is the link

http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewforum.php?f=17&sid=3a25cd4939c92b586c792318d10b5c34

I could go on for ages but I will let the man speak for himself in the future debates here at uk muscle


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Hey jimmy(james)nice of ya to invite me,so far so good,done 4 posts and not managed to upset anybody lets hope it doesnt go the same way as my muscletalk experiance:confused: The only prob i had seen was I cant spell cookie right it ran outta space for me so now i`m cooki.

Killerkeane,the reason a lot of people have so much energy on a high fat diet is that they have given the body time to ajust to using the ketones and fat for fuel,as you probably already know when you first start an atkins style diet you feel rough,and this is the reason most fail,if they stuck it out a full week or two they would notice a massive difference in the overall energy levels,no more ups and downs like you get with the high carb diets,this is because fats can keep blood sugars up for anything upto 6 hrs after eating as carbs start to drop after about 2hrs,so as you can see a big difference and a more stable enviroment.


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## Jimmy1 (Aug 14, 2003)

cookie, just remove the spaces ONESMARTCOOKIE


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

PM paul or Lorian maybe they can fix that up for you OSC.

I notice you are a mod on another board!

I like to read and learn all I can in this game.

What is your age Cookie?

I bet you are of an older persuasion huh?

Just looked 34 no wonder you sounded mature.

Looking fwd to reading more of your posts bro.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Cheers mate I`ll do that,

Age wise I`m fastly approaching 34 and desperatley trying to get it all together again so I can have another go at competing before I get too old and bored

Yep I`m a mod,they gave me a great oppertunity on bio and I really appreciate it,it helps a lot them letting me rant away like I do over there I hope you enjoy reading my corner and look forward to you contributing in the future,so far over here I`m enjoying the reading and the polite way eveybody responds to posts.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Yah, I am on a couple of American boards and there are too many flames.

I think there might be thousands of more users but just too much flack. Too many experts too and they just get on you if you even misspell a word or two.

I know you will like it here a bunch of good guys.

Where are you from OSC?

How long have you been into BBing?

Any pics?

34 is young, I will be 35 in 3 months


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

I`m from the good old uk,

And yes agree too much flaming especially on the amaerican sites and one or too upthemselves british ones,I remember the good old days of the underground supplements board,damm good info on there and a wicked news letter.

been bbing since march 87 just before I left high school,went from 105lbs to 196lb in 8yrs,then lost it all:eek: but not to worry it soon comes back the second time around.

You`ll find some pics of me in my corner on biohazard in the hello peeps thread,from when I last competed in 96 to earlier this year after quite a few years worth of ill health.

P.S.you know why they flame so much nowadays?too much bloody gear,there all full of angry androgens,never would have happend in my day


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Dammit, I said 35 in 3 months, I made a mistake, It should have read this:

I will be 45 in a few months. That was a mistake I missed. OOPS!

Hey OSC what kindof health issues did you have asside from the chemical dependance ones you talked about earlier?

Was it gear related?


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

cheers cookie, where is the cookie jar in the uk then?


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

You can read all about my ups and downs in this thread just click on it and enjoy.

http://www.biohazardforums.com/veiwtopic.php?=1977

I`m in yorkshire,killerkean.

And for anybody that is seriously interested in the high fat approach I have a wonderfull little ebook that you can have,just pm me your emailaddys and I get them out as soon as I can.


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Hey OSC, dead link


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## Pete1436114491 (Nov 3, 2003)

Try this

http://www.biohazardforums.com/viewforum.php?f=17&sid=f0541f3b914d467a6b65933dbecf3ea4


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## hackskii (Jul 27, 2003)

Wow, just looking at some of OSC's diets. Very interesting on the supps.

I see he has collogen in one of his diets.

I have taken this several times with good results just before bed on an empty stomach. Made the skin pretty soft too.

Collogen therapy has been around for 28 years and is kindof expensive but prices are going down.

I am going to have to take a day and read his stuff. This is my favorite reading material.


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## Killerkeane (Nov 9, 2003)

yorkshire huh? I used to live in Rotherham.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Thanks pete for that,looks like my lack of technology know how strikes again,lol.

Hope you all enjoy the reading,they`ll be more to come,i promise.


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## Cookie (Sep 14, 2009)

Just a little bit more fuel for the fire:eek:

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/3/atkins_diet.htm


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