# lantus pen??



## Guest (Nov 22, 2011)

ok so i have decide to take the plunge with insulin. starting with 10iu first thing in a morning on work out days. diet and workout in check. cannot get hold of needles for the pens. can you just draw the insulin out of the pen with a insulin needle? which would be 0.1ml on a insulin shringe. also i am aware that it has a 24 hr active life. for bodybuilding purposes people recommed first thing before breatfast, but would early afternoon be ok ?

thanks


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

i highly recommend for your first time you use novorapid or humalog. Do you know the active time of lantus? How are you planning your carb requirements?

Lantus users (except for few, very experienced guys, and they tend to use both lantus and novorapid together) seem to get fatter than novorapid users, as they tend to overeat carbs when trying to manage the long active period of lantus...

at any rate,

if you need supplies, cheap and easy to get on line:

http://www.diabetics4less.co.uk/insulin-pens-c-16.html

needles:

http://www.diabetics4less.co.uk/pen-needles-c-13.html

if you don't have a blood glucose monitor, dont even think of using 'slin!

you can get:

http://www.diabetics4less.co.uk/meters-c-12.html

they all work, choose one you like.

Lantus isnt active for 24 hours:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_glargine

its 18-26 hours... it depends on many factors...

once again.. I really DONT recommend it... you probably chose lantus becuase your "source" has it, or you know a diabetic who gives it to you... no one chooses to use it otherwise...

really try and get your hands on novorapid, most common fast acting 'slin in the UK and HIGHLY recommended..

morning is best if you choose to ignore the above and use it anyway...


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2011)

carbs would be covered as i am currently on a bulking diet with around 400g of carbs a day. a post from maxiter i think it was, pointed me in the direction of lantus, especially due to long acting profile , and no peak. why do you not recommend it? purely due to fat gain?

thanks for reply


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BigAndy said:


> carbs would be covered as i am currently on a bulking diet with around 400g of carbs a day. a post from maxiter i think it was, pointed me in the direction of lantus, especially due to long acting profile , and no peak. why do you not recommend it? purely due to fat gain?
> 
> thanks for reply


well i guess on 400g of carbs, you'll be fat anyway  so a little more wont hurt..

frankly if bulking, you're best of taking metformin.. as you wil be insulin insensitive consuming that many carbs, and releasing more insulin than is required, and hence storing more fat.. 400g is a shed load of carbs daily...

also, with novorapid, you can adjust yur carb intake, and use it specifically post work out to drive extra nutrients (carbs AND aminos) into the muscle..

as you're not a diabetic, and you WANT the peaks from novorapid.. slow steady release mimics natural release.. which you have anyway...

however, its up to you..

mind you most who take lantus, usually do 30-50iu in the morning, then do 8-10 iu novorapid post workout as well...


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

Didnt rate novo, wasnt worth the hassle I dont think


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2011)

as in you didnt rate novo, but you did lantus? so lets say i reduce carbs to minimise fat gain, to say 250-300. and shoot 10 iu first thing, then wait until a few hours before bed check blood sugar , and check before bed to check it is stable, is the main issue fat gain ? i understand what you are saying about novo, but thought lantus, would be easier to get to grips with regarding insulin


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## Craig660 (Dec 8, 2005)

Didnt rate nolvo and didnt try lantus.

If I did it again I would do the Lantus as heard better things about it


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BigAndy said:


> as in you didnt rate novo, but you did lantus? so lets say i reduce carbs to minimise fat gain, to say 250-300. and shoot 10 iu first thing, then wait until a few hours before bed check blood sugar , and check before bed to check it is stable, is the main issue fat gain ? i understand what you are saying about novo, but thought lantus, would be easier to get to grips with regarding insulin


i'd say try both... only way you'll know. But yes, fat gain is the issue with lantus, and overall, 10iu through the whole day? doubt you'll notice much difference...

easy way to judge these things, don't just weigh yourself- take skin folds measurements as well overall size measurements of biceps, chest, waist and thighs.. and see how many inches you increase in size, and how much fatter you're getting skin fold wise...

bulking is fine.. but you can't flex fat, and you want better than 50/50 muscle/fat gain if you're on AAS and 'slin.. they are tools, but diet dictates your fat gains..



Craig660 said:


> Didnt rate nolvo and didnt try lantus.
> 
> If I did it again I would do the Lantus as heard better things about it


most i know have done spectacularly well on novorapid... even gaining muscle mass with no AAS in 1 month.. (myself included).

did you do 3x shots/day, one post workout, with 2shakes with each shot (carbs/protein; 1 shake 10mins after shot, next 60mins after the first?)


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2011)

well i planned on starting at 10iu, and working my way up, i didnt want to start too high.what would be the best times to check blood sugar, just mainly a couple of hours before bed, and straight before bed ?


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2011)

sorry for the confusion,i am talking about lantus insulin. yes its my first time


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

Empire Boy said:


> 10ui is the max for most of us first timers...I started at 4ui, then 5ui, then 7ui, then 8ui, now 10ui for the rest...have you run 'slin before?


yes thats for humalog or novorapid, both fast acting slin's. Lantus, the starting point is usually 30iu, as its released over 18-26hours... most build up to 50iu. and advanced guys still do a shot of fast acting post workout as well... immense weight gain... think dorian yates size of season.. but pretty bloated, with a tendancy to put a fair bit of fat on too...



BigAndy said:


> sorry for the confusion,i am talking about lantus insulin. yes its my first time


You need to use a BG meter, measure hourly when when you start, to see the effect of eating, as you will still release some of your own insulin too; you need to track the effect of the carbs you ingest. Never let your BG level drop below 6.0. Have fast acing carbs (like dextrose chews, or jelly babies etc, a bag full) on your body at all times... until you are certain of your BG levels and how they rise/fall through the day with the foods you eat.

I suggest you start higher than 10iu.. doubt you'll notice a difference.. with 10iu released over 18 hours..

(this is why the short acting guys may start 4 or 6iu, but they do it 3x day... so overall they've still used more than 10iu even when starting; of course 10iu 3x day has a strong effect, and that's why if you're using lantus, you need to start on more than 10iu- but measure your BG levels every hour when not eating, and 30mins after each meal).


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2011)

great , thanks for advice. so what about bedtimes. if insulin is still active,ie under 18hours since shot. but blood sugar is above 6.how do i know blood sugar wont drop when i fall asleep?


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BigAndy said:


> great , thanks for advice. so what about bedtimes. if insulin is still active,ie under 18hours since shot. but blood sugar is above 6.how do i know blood sugar wont drop when i fall asleep?


and now you know why I'm not a fan of lantus....

the only way around this is take a big hit of complex carbs and fibre to slow digestion/release while you sleep...

its a guess... and its better to be safe than sorry.. so quite a lot of complex carbs.. to cover the remaining active life..


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2011)

would 100g of oats be enough, around 70g of complex carbs, or more than that? realistically how dangerous is it to go to bed when lantus insulin is still active ?


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## Sureno (Feb 8, 2011)

very interesting thread, aus as usual, very useful info bro :thumbup1:


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## ausbuilt (Nov 22, 2010)

BigAndy said:


> would 100g of oats be enough, around 70g of complex carbs, or more than that? realistically how dangerous is it to go to bed when lantus insulin is still active ?


the danger is.. you fall asleep, and fall under 4.0mmol/L and don't wake up...

ok is 100g of oats enough? the only way to tell is, during the DAY, say as your 2nd meal, and with a BG reading between 6.0 and 7.0, eat a 100g of oats... and measure every hour what your BG reading is... see if it falls below 6.0.. if it does, see how long it took... then think if you have this at night, does it cover your active 'slin period..


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2011)

ok great, thanks for the advice, much appreciated


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Excellent info aus! You da man!


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## Mr_Morocco (May 28, 2011)

what a legend ausbuilt


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