# Insulin with meals also gh timings



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Well winters nearly here so let's say good bye to the abs ;-)

Seriously though I want to explore using insulin with meals (I've done post and pre up to now)

So here is my day at the moment, meals are normally 60g pro, 70g carbs fats vary.

Meal 1 7:30

Meal 2 10:30

Meal 3 13:30

Meal 4 1700

Train around 18:30

Post training shake straight after training (meal 5)

Then another hour later Meal 6

If I'm still up meal 7 before bed which is normally protien and fats only.

And here is it with insulin added for 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off.

Meal 1 7:30 and slin shot

slin shake 8:30

Meal 2 10:30

Meal 3 13:30 and slin shot

slin shake 14:30

Meal 4 17:00

Train around 18:30 Could 4iu's of gh be used here on the slin days?

slin shot after training

Post training shake ten mins after or some say straight away

Then another meal which will be solid foods an hour after.

If I'm still up I'll have a shake meal but add carbs too.

4iu's of gh

The gh really can be taken at any time but I'm thinking 4iu's if/when I do fasted cardio then 4iu's prebed. Also could it be used preworkout on the slin days as shown above.

Does this look ok?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Anyone there?


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

It all looks good to me,only thing is I used to leave 90 mins between slin shake and meals.I now use lantus so thats not an issue anymore.


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

I'd be going with novorapid I think unless anyone has a better option.

I was starting to feel like I done a protien fart and cleared the place out ;-)


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

I though more than one person would know about this?

The normal rule is 10g carbs per 1iu but if I eat 70g carbs per should I take 7ius per meal or start lower. I'm not new to slin but want to check you run it the same with meals as you do post workout. With preworkout you have half the carbs with shot then half during.

So do I do 70 carbs with shot 7ius then an hour later the slin shake another 70g carbs?

If I start with say 5ius should I lower my carbs to suit to avoid extra body fat?


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

I run my insulin multiple times per day and find it very effective when I hit a sticking point in bodyweight - a lot simpler and easier than you've tried to outline.

Basically after each carb meal use 2-3 iu insulin 10mins after ingestion, no further carbs are needed. Mimicking the bodies own natural slin production but much more efficiently with a synthetic compound.

Then I run a high dose pre workout with high dose gh post workout.


----------



## gearchange (Mar 19, 2010)

I know a few here use insulin,I am surprised no one has given you some help,they may not have seen your post.

Let me see if @Pscarb is around.He is the authority on the subject here .


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Bad Alan said:


> I run my insulin multiple times per day and find it very effective when I hit a sticking point in bodyweight - a lot simpler and easier than you've tried to outline.
> 
> Basically after each carb meal use 2-3 iu insulin 10mins after ingestion, no further carbs are needed. Mimicking the bodies own natural slin production but much more efficiently with a synthetic compound.
> 
> Then I run a high dose pre workout with high dose gh post workout.


That sound like I've research hence why I didn't see what carbs where been used as a second carb feed.

My idea/theory was be having the slin shake an hour after the slin shot I was be able to try force more nutrients into my system using the slin window.

How many days out of 7 do you do this?

I was leaning towards maybe gh pre workout and bedtime then using the slin post workout. But I'm still researching and thanks got the input.


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

gearchange said:


> I know a few here use insulin,I am surprised no one has given you some help,they may not have seen your post.
> 
> Let me see if @Pscarb is around.He is the authority on the subject here .


I agree as I've read his post but I've always avoided just asking one person as it seems dis-respectable to others. If I see I thread like that I don't bother replying even if I know what they are asking.


----------



## Bad Alan (Dec 30, 2010)

littledaz said:


> That sound like I've research hence why I didn't see what carbs where been used as a second carb feed.
> 
> My idea/theory was be having the slin shake an hour after the slin shot I was be able to try force more nutrients into my system using the slin window.
> 
> ...


After meals everyday and pre training on workout days only. I firmly believe pre workout insulin is the best way to run it and take advantage of peri-workout nutrition and the nutrient shuttling.

Gh post workout > pre workout personally.


----------



## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

meal 1: slin > eat

meal 2:eat

meal 3:slin > eat

meal 4:eat

workout > slin post workout > gh post workout > post workout shake

meal 5:eat

sleep


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Bad Alan said:


> After meals everyday and pre training on workout days only. I firmly believe pre workout insulin is the best way to run it and take advantage of peri-workout nutrition and the nutrient shuttling.
> 
> Gh post workout > pre workout personally.


I have used it preworkout and pumps were good.

Your version does make it easier.

The only thing I'm not sure about is I eat 1 hour before a train so should I leave the insulin out for that meal? as an hour later I'll be having the preworkout insulin shot???


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> meal 1: slin > eat
> 
> meal 2:eat
> 
> ...


I've also done the slin and gh post workout as you describe just without the slin with food.

That would be more like the 3 x 10iu a day protocol.


----------



## lukeyybrown1 (Jun 4, 2014)

littledaz said:


> I've also done the slin and gh post workout as you describe just without the slin with food.
> 
> That would be more like the 3 x 10iu a day protocol.


inject as much slin as you want if you have the nutrients to back it up 

only problem is you may become insulin dependent


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> inject as much slin as you want if you have the nutrients to back it up
> 
> only problem is you may become insulin dependent


Yeah I know that is a risk which is why I've limited the amount of days "on" before.

I'm also going to run some metformin on the days off to try help, and also only use for 4 weeks at once.


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

lukeyybrown1 said:


> meal 1: slin > eat
> 
> meal 2:eat
> 
> ...


I think I'll go with this one but move slin to preworkout.

Tried gh pre and just felt tired?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

I was thinking of doing each training day with slin as a pre apart from legs.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

fast acting slin 3iu 10 mins after every meal every 3 hours no need to adjust carb intake , do this 4 weeks on 4 off 7 days a week .

gh prebed m/w/f 8iu

it`s that simple .


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

MRSTRONG said:


> fast acting slin 3iu 10 mins after every meal every 3 hours no need to adjust carb intake , do this 4 weeks on 4 off 7 days a week .
> 
> gh prebed m/w/f 8iu
> 
> it`s that simple .


So i could carry on with how i normally do things but just incorporate a slin shot after every meal? what if i prefer gh shot post workout? I've had my GH and Slin ready sat there for months, the protocol/procedure is one that just baffles me.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Gotista said:


> So i could carry on with how i normally do things but just incorporate a slin shot after every meal? what if i prefer gh shot post workout? I've had my GH and Slin ready sat there for months, the protocol/procedure is one that just baffles me.


slin is active for 2.5-3 hours (fast slin) so aslong as meals are spaced 3 hours apart then yes , try 2iu for your first run but i wouldnt go over 3iu .

time the slin so that by the time you have trained its out your system when you do the gh .


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Thing is it's not always possible to inject with every meal which is why I was personally think every other meal the preworkout.

The GH before bed always makes me nice and sleepy too so I've been doing that but only 4ius.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

littledaz said:


> Thing is it's not always possible to inject with every meal which is why I was personally think every other meal the preworkout.
> 
> The GH before bed always makes me nice and sleepy too so I've been doing that but only 4ius.


use lantus


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

MRSTRONG said:


> use lantus


I have looked at using it and some days it's really good but I've only used novorapid before so if have to look into dosing etc.


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

MRSTRONG said:


> slin is active for 2.5-3 hours (fast slin) so aslong as meals are spaced 3 hours apart then yes , try 2iu for your first run but i wouldnt go over 3iu .
> 
> time the slin so that by the time you have trained its out your system when you do the gh .


fantastic, gonna do this, do i still need to get all the extra's? dextrose, malta, glutamice bcaa creatine and what not because the slin will be in my system whilst training which can be dangerous apparently?


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Gotista said:


> fantastic, gonna do this, do i still need to get all the extra's? dextrose, malta, glutamice bcaa creatine and what not because the slin will be in my system whilst training which can be dangerous apparently?


an intra shake is a good idea imo


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

I've been looking into slin...

is the Lantus fast acting?? and what are the benfits of pre workout over post workout/post post workout?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

funkdocta said:


> I've been looking into slin...
> 
> is the Lantus fast acting?? and what are the benfits of pre workout over post workout/post post workout?


Lantus is slow so just one shot to cover all day.

Some say that pre is the best but then others say post.. There are so many protocols it's unreal which is why there are many threads with different answers.

Pre gives good pumps in gym but if you do 3ius with every meal I'm sure the muscle will be very full anyway.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

littledaz said:


> Lantus is slow so just one shot to cover all day.
> 
> Some say that pre is the best but then others say post.. There are so many protocols it's unreal which is why there are many threads with different answers.
> 
> Pre gives good pumps in gym but if you do 3ius with every meal I'm sure the muscle will be very full anyway.


ah right so will the lantus have spikes throughout the day or a constant slow release?? would a constant release through the day not cause any fat gain issues??


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

funkdocta said:


> ah right so will the lantus have spikes throughout the day or a constant slow release?? would a constant release through the day not cause any fat gain issues??


slow release over 24 hours and can lead to more fat gain however it will produce more IGF due to the active period .


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

MRSTRONG said:


> slow release over 24 hours and can lead to more fat gain however it will produce more IGF due to the active period .


Think id prefer to control some spikes. Would I see much benefit/gains from just a few iu novorapid pre workout? And would I have to get carbs in before and during workout?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

If using pre workout slin you need carbs with the pre and intra carbs.

I'd suggest you did slin at other times before using pre as you need to know how you react before putting yourself in training situations on slin.

This stuff is dangerous which I why I think most hold back on sharing info.


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

funkdocta said:


> Think id prefer to control some spikes. Would I see much benefit/gains from just a few iu novorapid pre workout? And would I have to get carbs in before and during workout?


read this .....

Insulin basics posted below and lower is some protocols .

Auther Grendel

Look back through picture archives of bodybuilding and you will be struck by a startling fact. In the last half-decade bodybuilders have been getting much larger much quicker. Certain professionals have added twenty pounds to their contest weight in one season, after having seemingly reached a plateau. The bodybuilding audience loves to hear that this weight gain is due to some secret drug or some newly discovered gene therapy. Elaborate theories are developed to explain these rapid weight gains and the professionals themselves are not helpful; they claim that it's the new X-brand supplement that's doing it and leave it at that.

The truth is that bodybuilders have discovered the most anabolic hormone produced by the body, insulin. Additionally, insulin has the benefit of being not only legal and over the counter in most states, but it is very cheap. A bottle costs less then thirty dollars and there is no need to worry about counterfeits. By correctly using insulin, in conjunction with human growth hormone and anabolic steroids, modern professionals have added pounds of mass onto seemingly stagnant physiques.

This chapter will give a brief overview of insulin and the methods by which its anabolic action is exerted. We will outline how to correctly and safely use insulin both to gain size and to prepare for a contest (or simply diet).

Insulin: The Overview

Insulin is a peptide hormone, secreted by the pancreatic islets of Langerhans. Insulin promotes glucose utilization, protein synthesis, and regulates the metabolism of sugar. Insulin travels until it reaches receptor sites on cells. At these sites insulin facilitates the transport of glucose and amino acids across the cell membrane to be used inside the cell for energy and protein synthesis. This is insulin's anabolic effect, not only in super-saturating the cells with nutrients, but also helping to volumize the cell.

Insulin Safety:

There are significant risks that accompany the use of insulin. The greatest risk is an over-dose of insulin, which leads to hypoglycemic shock. This is not an overdose in the typical sense of the word; in this case it means that too much insulin was administered for the amount of glucose in the bloodstream. To this end, it is important to choose the correct type of insulin and to know when it peaks and the effective period of action of the drug in your body. This information is provided later in this chapter.

The symptoms of insulin shock are easy to recognize.

Distress is relatively rapid, usually in a matter of minutes.

Hunger.

Sweating.

Cold, clammy feeling.

Paleness.

Trembling, anxiety.

Rapid heartbeat.

Feeling of weakness or faintness.

Irritability and change in mood or personality.

Loss of consciousness.

Treatment:

Feed the person a source of quickly absorbed sugar. If the person is conscious, table sugar, fruit juice, honey, a non-diet soft drink, or any other available sugar source will do. If the person is unconscious, do not try to force sugar or liquid down his throat. Honey, granulated sugar, or a special capsule (such as D-glucose) containing concentrated sugars, which some diabetics carry, can be carefully placed under the tongue where it is absorbed into the body. However, this may be difficult to do.

There is another rapid form of intervention that anyone using insulin should know about; a glucagon pen. Injectable glucagon is a hormone, normally produced in the pancreas, which has effects opposite to those of insulin. It is commonly used to treat hypoglycemia or low blood sugar. It may also be used to relax parts of the gastrointestinal tract for certain examinations. It is not a controlled substance. In the event of the onset of hypoglycemia, this emergency injection will pull your blood sugar back up. If you are using insulin, you should have one of these pens with you at all times.

Take the person to a hospital emergency room as quickly as possible. Severe insulin reactions can be fatal. Do not be afraid of getting into "trouble", the use of insulin is legal. You will certainly get a lecture about how crazy it is to use insulin, but you will not be arrested or detained in anyway.

It is extremely important to have someone who you can trust monitor you when you are using insulin. They should be aware of the signs of insulin shock as well as the course of action to follow in the event that you do slip into a hypoglycemic state. Some insulin users will go so far as to purchase a medic alert bracelet that indicates them as a diabetic in the even that they pass out in public.

During a bulking phase, when calorie intake is deliberately high, insulin shock is not likely to be a problem assuming that post injection nutrition is precise (as outlined later in the chapter). In the even that you begin to feel any of the above symptoms immediately begin to consume the most simple sugars you can find, particularly look for glucose polymers and dextrose. Avoid fructose, as it is ineffective at raising blood sugar levels rapidly.

In the even that you are using insulin in dieting, do not be afraid to "blow your diet" by eating candy if you feel your blood sugar getting dangerously low. Your diet is not worth your life.

Types of Insulin:

There are three important characteristics that differentiate the available types of modern insulin. To properly use insulin in bodybuilding it is important to know the following characteristics:

Onset:

the time it takes the injected insulin to reach the blood stream and begin to work.

Peak:

the time period in which the insulin is working it's hardest to lower the blood sugar.

Duration:

the length of time the insulin will be working in the bloodstream. It is important to remember that insulin is an indiscriminate storage hormone. It doesn't care if its storing fat or glucose. Therefore fat intake should be as low as possible during the effective period of the insulin in the body. This will help prevent excessive fat gain.

For bodybuilding purposes we will only be concerned with three types of insulin; Humalin "R", Humalin "N" and Humalog are the most useful types of insulin. The other varieties are mixes of the above types in set ratios.

Humalin "N" is the longest acting insulin; it is active in the body for 24 hours. Additionally, it peaks several times throughout the day. Humalin "N' is useful in the high calorie off-season when there will always be an abundant supply of glucose. However, even the most dedicated bodybuilder who is eating many small meals may run into serious trouble in the insulin peak corresponds to a period of low blood sugar. Also, the long duration of Humalin "N' means that the bodybuilder must adhere to a low fat diet throughout the day, which is incongruously with the eating necessary to achieve brutal size.

Humalin "R" is known as the rapid insulin. The manufacturers claim that this type of insulin is active in the body for up to six hours; in reality it's closer to four and a half hours. The onset time of "R" is roughly thirty minutes and the drug peaks in one and a half to two and a half hours after injection.

Humalog is the fastest acting insulin. It has duration of about 2 hours, peaks in fifteen minutes, and is ideal for bodybuilding purposes because it is out of the body quickly. The speed at which Humalog works is beneficial because it allows us more precise control and lets us know exactly when food needs to be consumed.

Insulin Injection Procedure:

Insulin can be injected intravenously, intramuscularly, or subcutaneously. Injection insulin into the veins is creepy, but safe. However, it is not necessary to do this, as injection insulin into muscle or under the skin is just as effective.

The injection site, exercise, and the accuracy of the dosage measurement, the depth of injection and by environmental temperatures, can affect insulin absorption. To obtain consistency in daily insulin absorption and action, you should vary injection sites within the same anatomical region. The abdomen provides an excellent area for consistent absorption of insulin, whereas the leg and arm areas are often affected more by exercise. Repeated injection in the same area may cause a delay in absorption whereas massaging the site of injection may lead to an increased rate of absorption. Insulin should be injected at a 90-degree angle using an insulin syringe (25 unit, 30 unit, 50 unit, or 100 unit size) or with an insulin pen. If redness, pain, or lumps are noted at the injection site, this area should be avoided until the problem goes away.

Be sure to follow proper sterilization procedures. Wipe down the injection area with alcohol. The insulin needle is very thin so bleeding should be minimal. However, press a swab of cotton soaked in alcohol over the injection site after you withdraw the needle. This will protect almost entirely against infection.

An increase in blood flow to an injection site will increase the rate that insulin is absorbed. So, exercise will cause insulin to be absorbed more rapidly, because blood flow has increased to the exerted muscle groups. You will need to either inject less insulin or eat more carbohydrates after exercise. Rubbing the injected area increases blood flow, and hence, absorption.

Part 2

Post Injection Meals and Supplements:

Depending on the onset time of the insulin type you are using you have varying lengths of time in which to ingest the post-insulin meal. Generally your post insulin meals should follow these guidelines.

60-80 grams of a good quality protein powder. Whey protein is ideal. This is taken immediately after the injection.

7 grams of simple carbohydrates (not fructose as it does not raise blood sugar quickly enough) per IU of insulin injected. Every 15-20 minutes after the first shot, take a few glucose tablets. This is will increase the amount of glucose available to your body for storage.

200 mg of chromium picolinate (this is optional).

200 mg of lipoic acid (this is optional).

30 mg vanadyl sulfate (this is optional).

2000 mg of hydroxy citric acid (this is optional).

5-7 grams of creatine monohydrate. This is crucial.

5-7 grams of glutamine powder. This is also crucial.

The total amount of insulin that you will be using daily is roughly 15-45 IUs depending on how many carbohydrates you can eat that day. During dieting periods, the total amount of insulin will be greatly reduced.

Typically, three injections of insulin are used daily. The first is taken immediately upon awaking; this is an appropriate time to use the Humalin "R". The second shot is taken mid-day and Humalog is recommended. The last injection is taken immediately after the workout of the day. If you are doing a double split training program, then take one shot after each workout and adjust your other injection accordingly. Do not take an injection too late at night; you want to be able to stay awake through the entire period of action so you can monitor yourself for signs of low blood sugar.

Anyone who is going to use insulin should take some time to familiarize him or herself with the glycemic index. The glycemic index is a ranking of foods based on how they effect the body's blood sugar levels. There are many resources that provide elaborate listing of many types of foods including fast foods. For our purposes it is merely important to identify the foods with high glycemic index scores to consume with the insulin injection. Below is a list of foods (or sugars) that scored very highly on the glycemic index.

Whole Foods or Candies

Jelly Beans

Dates

Sugar types

(in ascending order; Maltose elevates blood sugar the most)

Lactose

Honey

High fructose corn syrup

Glucose

Glucose tablets

Maltodextrin

Maltose

Conclusion

For many, insulin may seem like the perfect bodybuilding drug. It's legal, cheap, effective, and easy to obtain. However, the decision to use insulin is not one that can be made lightly. At worst, the misuse or abuse of anabolic steroids will probably result in no more than elevated liver enzymes and a host of undesirable cosmetic side effects. Improper use of insulin will result in much more serious consequences, including death. Bodybuilders must first ask themselves if they possess the necessary maturity and intelligence to responsibly use this hormone. Look before you leap my friends.

Below i will list slin protocols ...

MIKE ARNOLD protocol.....

The best single time is pre-workout, although you need to adhere to specific diet protocols.

Here is a pre-workout insulin protocol, which will kick your ass. Your not going to fnd a pre-workout protocol, which works better. I have tried dozens of different programs in my clients and none of them work as well.

Of course, keep in mind that there are many different ways to run insulin, but if your limiting it to only at workout times, try the following. 10 lbs in 1-2 weeks is common.

Lastly, I will assume you are thoroughy familiar with Insulin and know what signs to look for in the event of hypoglycemia. I am not going to type out all the warning signs or what to do in the event of a hypoglycemic attack. However, the following program is very unlikely to result in any type of serious hypoglycemic event, even in those with extreme inuslin sensitivity. I am also unaware of your bodyweight or dietary needs, so I will write a program which should be suitable for 1st time nsulin users between 200-250 lbs.

30 minutes before workout

Inject 15 IU Humalog

60 grams Vitargo, Karbolyn (or similar).

20 grams of Hydrolyzed protein (whey, casein, or beef).

4.5 grams Leucine.

4.5 grams GPLC.

5 grams Micronized creatine monohydrate.

2 grams Beta alanine.

15 grams Glycerol monostearate

10 grams glutamine.

3 grams Taurine.

2 grams vitamin C.

500 mg Potassium.

60 minutes later

60 grams Vitargo, Karbolyn (or similar).

20 grams Hydrolyzed protein (whey, casein, or beef).

4.5 grams Leucine.

5 grams Micronized creatine monohydrate.

2 grams Beta alanine.

15 grams Glycerol monostearate.

10 grams glutamine.

3 grams Taurine.

60 minutes later

60 grams Vitargo, Karbolyn (or similar).

20 grams hydrolyzed protyein (whey, casein, or beef).

Note: You should consume a regular meal within 3-4 hours of beginning this protocol. Also, I don't recomnmend doing it if it has been 5 or more hours since you heve last eaten, as your blood suagr will be pretty low when you start....so try to get in your last meal within 3 to no more than 4 hours before beginning the protocol.

Lastly, since you will be drinking your last shake either at the end of your workout or very close to it (unless you workout for many hours), there is no need to eat a whole food meal assoonas the workout is over. You can wait a good hour after consuming your fina shake before eating a post-workout meal, as your body will already be supplied with all the nutrients it needs to grow.

This program will work very well for you. Give it a shot. 15 IU is a good starting dose of insulin for a pre-wrkout protocol. The amount of carbs and protien provided is more than enough to use up 15 IU of Slin, but if it worries you, somply use 10 IU for your 1st time and then go up to 15 the next time. Your pumps will be through the ****in' roof and you will quickly gain fullness, size and overall bodyweight. Bottom line: You will feel like you are using AAS for your first time all over again and will look much bigger within just 2 weeks. It will work better if you follow this protocol at least 5 times a week. Guys who train only 3 or 4 days a week don't notice quit as good of results because they're only using Slin 3-4 times per week.

MUTANTS PROTOCOL....

Ok, so after talking to some professional and elite bodybuilders, I have learned quite a bit about what a well known professional trainer is having these bodybuilders to do to obtain the retarded amounts of weight they have been added to their bodies. It's simply taking their insulin pre-workout, combined with 3 "shakes". I looked at this Insulin protocol, and the ingredients in the shakes, and designed my own Insulin Protacol to better suit my goals and routine. I use better quality of ingredients in my shakes, and added my HGH pre-workout, and igf-1lr3 post workout as well.

Now, the theory behind this insulin protocol is, "Why break the body down, only to rebuild it? When you can simply keep adding onto the Body!"

So basically, by forcing the carbohydrates and Essential Amino Acids into your muscles while you train, the muscle tissue is not breaking down in the same manner that they normally would. It is actually being both protected and forced to grow at the same time. I have not done too much research behind the theory, but it sure sounded good to me, based on what I know about enhancing drugs and supplementation. I prefer trying things out myself, and going by results. Well, the results were spectacular.

Before I begin, I want to say that this typed out protocol is just a base. It is to give you a base to work from/with. Everybody is different. Some people will need more or less carbs and amino acids. This is based on the amount of insulin that they are using and how their bodies react. This is why I gave a range for the supplements and insulin doses. You will need to adjust it based on how you react. For the carbohydrates, always start high, and lower it accordingly, once you get the feel of it.

We start off by taking our HGH, and give it a few minutes to get circulating, before we add our insulin. The idea behind this, is to make sure that the HGH passes the liver while we have a substantial amount of insulin in the body. This is how we produce large IGF-1 spikes. After the workout, we go home and take our IGF-1LR3. We are taking this to increase our insulin sensitivity, and to help use up any of those receptors that we have not filled. I could go more into detail, but if you are using this protocol, you should already know all about the drugs, and should be able to put it together yourself.

- -30 min prior to workout: Take 10iu HGH subq

- -15 min prior to workout: Take 6-16iu Novalog subq

- -10 min prior to workout: Drink shake #1

- -After every working set: Sip on shake #2, and finish by end of workout

- -Go home

- -Take 100mcg of the IGF-1lr3 (for it's insulin sensitizing effects)

- -Take down shake #3

- -Done..now you are huge

Ok, now what is in the shakes...

Shake 1: 10-20g EAA's or PeptoPro Protein powder , 40-60g Low DE Maltodextrin, 5g Micronized Creatine Monohydrate, 200mg Caffeine (or pre-workout powdered mix of choice in place of caffeine)

Shake 2: 10-20g EAA's or PeptoPro Protein powder, 50-100g Dextrose, 5g Micronized Creatine Monohydrate

Shake 3: 2 cups pasteurized egg whites, 1 cup dry oats, 1 banana or 1 cup blueberries (I prefer them to be frozen), splenda or stevia

*There is no need for a supplemented post workout shake because your glycogen will not be depleted, and you will have been ingesting aminos the whole time too. So dense whole food calories with low fat content, are going to be the best option here. So we throw it in a blender and take it down.

Now, I would like to advise you cheap-skates, not to go out and buy the cheapest ingredients that you can find. Please pick quality supplements. It does and will make a difference. Spend the extra 2$ and buy some quality ****, or your results may be skewed. Thinks about it this way: Your body is a Lamborghini. Would you fill your tank with low grade octane from Costco? No, of course not, it would run like ****. So use quality supplements, not bulk junk crap, and your results will be that much better!

Supplement idea for those of you who need to be pointed in the right direction:

EAA's: Champion Nutrition makes a good EAA product that has creatine in it, and also one that has caffeine too. It's called Champion Nutrition Amino Shooter Core, 18 pkts. There are 3 versions. None are a proprietary blend, and they are made with pharmacy grade aminos.

PeptoPro Protein powder : This can be used in place of the EAA's. It is a high quality peptide/EAA product made from hydrolyzed casein. Different companies buy PeptoPro and flavor it. One brand I have tried that is flavored is MAP by Primordial Performance.

Low DE Maltodextrin: This means Low Dextrose Equivalency. The lower the equivalence, the more complex of a chain it is, and the slower it will break down into a sugar. A couple good ones are Carb Complex by Nutek, and CytoSport Cytocarb II . If corn maltodextrins give you stomach problems, then other water soluble carbohydrates like Karbolyn can work. They just tend to be expensive, and do the same exact thing. Some people that have used this protocol with success, have actually used dextrose in place of the maltodextrin due to stomach problems.

Dextrose: Yes, you can find this anywhere, but I prefer AST Sports Science DGC because it also contains vitamins.

Micronized Creatine Monohydrate : Well, the name says it all. Any brand that uses Creapure as the source of their creatine monohydrate, should be just fine. I use Bioplex.

*Do not use cheap starch carbs, like waxy maize, in the shakes. The carbs need to be water soluble and easily digested. By keeping them soluble, they help pull the aminos in.

I decided to throw this insulin protocol together after I had my leg surgery, in hopes of gaining some abnormal amounts of muscle back that I had lost. I can tell you that I did, and this protocol works better than any protocol I have ever used. I started off at 204 - 205lb, and ended up at 234 after 4-5 weeks! I was taking anabolics on the side, but I guarantee that amount of insane weight, that fast, was not from the long estered steroids I was taking. I literally filled out instantly. When I dropped the insulin, I only lost a few pounds of water, and retained most, if not all, of my strength. So the gains were very solid, and not just a bunch of glycogen storage.

I do not want to post this on the open forums because there are too many idiot kids out there that will attempt this protocol in hopes of becoming an instant monster (which wont happen for them), and they will mess it up somehow. Maybe by being stupid, maybe by cutting corners, maybe by using cheap ingredients. Who knows? I don't need people hurting themselves, or not having good results, and them coming back and complaining. Even though they were the ones cutting corners!

So, there it is boys. Some people are paying big money for this type of info. It's nothing special. It's just different, but it makes sense and it works.

*Added note: Since this protocol was designed and posted, a handful of advanced users have tried it as part of their bulking regime. They have also had great success.

BFG`s HGH/INSULIN PROTOCOL......

The following is, hands down, THE MOST effective way to run insulin and growth hormone for muscle gain in the offseason. When dieting, it is recommended to change the way the gh is run to promote greater fat utilization throughout the day (remember, gh will shift your body's primary energy utilization from carbohydrates to fat). Later, I will post up an effective 4 month contest prep gh protocol that many pros have used and continue to follow.

I am not giving out doses here for the insulin because a lot of that comes down to individual sensitivity and experience.

----------------

What do you need?

hgh and humalog (you can use humulin-r, though). IGF-1 DES can be helpful but not necessary, especially since no american research chemical/peptide suppliers carry real IGF-1, anyway.

The Protocol

- 5-10 mins before training: intramuscular injection of humalog, drink shake containing 10g dextrose/1iu insulin and ~50g whey protein.

- intra workout: consume shake containing 10g BCAA's, 10g creatine monohydrate, 7-10g dextrose/1iu insulin and ~25g whey protein

- immediately post workout: inject 10+ iu's hgh (no less than 10, 20-30 is the "sweet spot"). Method of injection is individually preferential though most would agree IV is the optimal.

- 30 mins post IV hgh injection: consume shake containing 7-10g dextrose/1iu of insulin and ~50g whey protein

- 60 mins post IV hgh injection: eat a meal containing 150-200g complex and simple carbohydrates and 100-150g protein

Notes

- if you are using humulin-r, inject it subcutaneously 90 minutes pre workout. I would also then recommend changing your preworkout eating to a full meal 2 hours prior, a shake as described in step 1 about 45-60 mins prior and then some glucose tablets upon entering the gym as well as the intra workout shake.

- if you are using real IGF-1 DES (note: it is very expensive, and from china), inject it bilaterally in muscles to be trained that day pre workout. Prepare to adjust carbohydrate intake accordingly as IGF-1 will lower insulin sensitivity.


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Great collection of information there mate.

I've read most of it but now it's all in one place.


----------



## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

I like Mike Arnold's protocol as a starting point. Just using the slin 4 times per week would be a good place to start in my opinion... although 15iu seems like a very large amount??


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

funkdocta said:


> I like Mike Arnold's protocol as a starting point. Just using the slin 4 times per week would be a good place to start in my opinion... although 15iu seems like a very large amount??


ignore the dose , start very low and build slowly , 1iu per 10kg bw max


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

Going to do the below next week. looks very simple and don't need a million additional ingredients. Where can i buy dextrose from?

The Protocol

- 5-10 mins before training: intramuscular injection of humalog, drink shake containing 10g dextrose/1iu insulin and ~50g whey protein.

- intra workout: consume shake containing 10g BCAA's, 10g creatine monohydrate, 7-10g dextrose/1iu insulin and ~25g whey protein

- immediately post workout: inject 10+ iu's hgh (no less than 10, 20-30 is the "sweet spot"). Method of injection is individually preferential though most would agree IV is the optimal.

- 30 mins post IV hgh injection: consume shake containing 7-10g dextrose/1iu of insulin and ~50g whey protein

- 60 mins post IV hgh injection: eat a meal containing 150-200g complex and simple carbohydrates and 100-150g protein


----------



## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

myprotein for dextrose


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

I thought vitargo was a better choice over dextrose?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> Going to do the below next week. looks very simple and don't need a million additional ingredients. Where can i buy dextrose from?
> 
> The Protocol
> 
> ...


That's a lot a gh!!


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> That's a lot a gh!!


i have loads, saizen pharma grade.  be jealous!


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Bad Alan said:


> I run my insulin multiple times per day and find it very effective when I hit a sticking point in bodyweight - a lot simpler and easier than you've tried to outline.
> 
> Basically after each carb meal use 2-3 iu insulin 10mins after ingestion, no further carbs are needed. Mimicking the bodies own natural slin production but much more efficiently with a synthetic compound.
> 
> Then I run a high dose pre workout with high dose gh post workout.


You guys need to read bad alans post ^^^

This is the simplest and most effective way to run fast acting slin, multiple times aday


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

jayDP said:


> You guys need to read bad alans post ^^^
> 
> This is the simplest and most effective way to run fast acting slin, multiple times aday


Whats the most slin shots one can take? i train in the evening and so have 3 meals before my workout.


----------



## jayDP (Jan 31, 2012)

Gotista said:


> Whats the most slin shots one can take? i train in the evening and so have 3 meals before my workout.


Some people do every meal,

I only ever done 3 times though, about 3-4 hours apart


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Ok well for me I have 4 meals before I train but the 4th meal is only one hour before I train, so I couldn't have slin with that meal if using slin for pre training.

So that's 3x3iu's then call it 10iu's pre training total 19iu's daily.

Or slin with meal 1 and 3 7ius and 10 iu's total 24iu's daily

Which is best?


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> Ok well for me I have 4 meals before I train but the 4th meal is only one hour before I train, so I couldn't have slin with that meal if using slin for pre training.
> 
> So that's 3x3iu's then call it 10iu's pre training total 19iu's daily.
> 
> ...


why cant you have slin with meal 4?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> why cant you have slin with meal 4?


Meal 4 is one hour before training then pre workout slin would only be 45 mins apart and I think leaving 3-4 hours between each shot is the advice normally given.

Unless I'm wrong?


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> Meal 4 is one hour before training then pre workout slin would only be 45 mins apart and I think leaving 3-4 hours between each shot is the advice normally given.
> 
> Unless I'm wrong?


Oh ye true good call


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> Oh ye true good call


I thought it was best not to anyway.

How much gh postworkout are you going to start off on?


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> I thought it was best not to anyway.
> 
> How much gh postworkout are you going to start off on?


9iu. which equates to a box per week. (4 days training)


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

And believe it or not 9iu growth does nothing. HGH is definetely over rated. i just hope by addin slin i'll put some mass on.


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> And believe it or not 9iu growth does nothing. HGH is definetely over rated. i just hope by addin slin i'll put some mass on.


It depends on what your expecting it to do. If you spent the same money on test/tren you would get more bang for your money but I think gh is needed to add more cells for the aas to grow. Then adding slin hopefully that will force feed the new cells.


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> It depends on what your expecting it to do. If you spent the same money on test/tren you would get more bang for your money but I think gh is needed to add more cells for the aas to grow. Then adding slin hopefully that will force feed the new cells.


I'm done with aas. Not keen on the hair loss i've suffered.


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> I'm done with aas. Not keen on the hair loss i've suffered.


Ah ok then I'm not sure how well slin/gh works without the use off aas. I'm sure there must be gains but it's not something I've read up on.

There are aas that are kind on the hair line.


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> Ah ok then I'm not sure how well slin/gh works without the use off aas. I'm sure there must be gains but it's not something I've read up on.
> 
> There are aas that are kind on the hair line.


what aas are kind on the hair line?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> what aas are kind on the hair line?


We'll it's really excess that causing the speed up of hair loss as not everyone will suffer with it, just like I've been blessed with suffering from acne!!

Here is a sample of ausbuilt suggestion.

any steroid apart is OK for your hairline- only test affects your hairline. The reason is, other steroids may be DHT derivatives, but this means they can't convert BACK to DHT, and ONLY DHT causes male pattern baldness....

Testosterone, converts to DHT, and excess is converted to estrogen... so take any steroid you want, and if you want to take Testosterone, thats fine too, if you take Dutasteride with it, as it stops conversion of test to DHT.

If you only have your natural test levels, dutasteride may make you lose your sex drive etc (i.e your body as a male does want DHT), but if you are taking supra physiological amounts of test (i.e injecting more than your body would ever produce, so basically anything over 250mg/week) you would have EXCESS DHT, and dutasteride would be fine for you, and you're unlikely to suffer the negative effects of dutasteride that natural guys complain about.


----------



## Gotista (Sep 25, 2012)

littledaz said:


> We'll it's really excess that causing the speed up of hair loss as not everyone will suffer with it, just like I've been blessed with suffering from acne!!
> 
> Here is a sample of ausbuilt suggestion.
> 
> ...


Definetely disagree! Tren destroyed my hair!


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Gotista said:


> Definetely disagree! Tren destroyed my hair!


I've never had a problem with any to effect my hairline.

I always thought male pattern baldness was something that was going to happen to the person but excess test would speed up the process.

Maybe stick to low test cycles with another such as eq etc?


----------



## littledaz (Nov 20, 2011)

Just a few more things to ask.

If you use the mick Arnold protocol but only train for an hour. So shot and shake 30 mins before then one hour after 2nd drink (so that's half hour into training) then 3rd drink is 2 hours after the shot. So do you wait till the two hours point of have it straight after training?

Also the gh I can't decide if 8ius gh post raining would be better than 8iu's prebed?

I'm concerned about this dose causing a gh bleed v's multiple dose which creates but it's not always possible to do that.

I know the timing with gh isn't that important so just get it in the system and it will work but if there is a slightly better way I'd like to know.

If I was to have gh when I get up should I have it before I eat? Along side my slin shot? Or try take it when not eating or having slin?


----------

