# Are Bent Over Rows Essential?



## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm doing Madcow's at the moment and I have the choice of either power cleans or bent over rows. I love doing the power clean but to be honest I've never been a fan of the rows. It just seems like a strange and awkward movement to me.

If I were to stop doing them and only concentrate on my squat, deadlift, bench, military press, power cleans, dips and chinups would I end up with a sub-par back?

I mean if I'm doing deadlifts, chinups and power cleans then doesn't that already work the entire back sufficiently? I should get pretty good all round development with these 3 right?

Thoughts?


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## Lois_Lane (Jul 21, 2009)

If an exercise does not feel right don't do it.


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## Cliff (May 2, 2010)

why doesn't it feel right?

Possibly bad form? (This is why I hate wide grip pullups)


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I've tried overhand, underhand, 90 degrees, 45 degrees, t-bar rows and I just cannot for the life of me feel it working properly.

After a set of pullups I can feel my lats pumped and aching but with rows it's like it's all in my arms. Each time I finish a set I feel like I've done a set of curls or something. Feel totally underwhelmed with the exercise altogether to be honest.


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## Zzz102 (Apr 6, 2010)

I find t bar rows alot better mate

edit didnt realise youd tryed them


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## Mowgli (Aug 23, 2009)

I also don't like bent over rows - just can't get a good contraction as spending most of my time not falling over. Alternated seated Hammer Strength rows are OK, but I get the best contraction from a close grip cable.


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## gt190 (Dec 25, 2009)

if you feel like rows are hitting your arms too much you could try using straps so you no longer have to grip the bar.


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## recc (Apr 27, 2008)

AJ91 said:


> As Con said, do what suits you, everyone is built different and some exercises simply won't suit some people. I had a mate that i use to train with that could never get on with them.
> 
> I'm guessing you mean overhand rows though? Personally i prefer Yates rows, come a lot more natural to me, and i can feel the contraction in my back far better. Maybe worth a try?


I agree with this, I know the OP has said hes tried underhand rows, but try proper yates rows; shoulder width underhand grip, back about 45 degrees and bring bar to stomach whilst squeezing lats.

I find normal BOR hard to balance and get in a decent 'groove'


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## sully807 (Jul 28, 2010)

i love row movements personally, have you tried lowering weight on db rows and using strict form (ie an arc motion from chin level contracting up and back into the hip and back again) if db rows conflict with mad cows or w.e its called ignore me i have no knowledge of the program


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## shauno (Aug 26, 2007)

I think it takes a good couple of years to develop lats and then get a mind muscle connection going. I personally will never ditch rows


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

recc, I didn't even know what Yates rows were but I've been doing them for quite a while it seems. Got to a point where I was just hitting my traps for some reason. Also found it became very hard to keep my balance as the bar moved forward for each rep.

Sull807, not sure what you mean "arc motion from chin level". If you're bringing the dbs from chin level then surely that isn't a proper row? Sounds more like a bent over chinup lol


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## sully807 (Jul 28, 2010)

hard to explain n didnt do it very well  one arm db row bent over on a bench, when your arm is fully extended (Odb is hanging,) then the top of the db should be about level with your trap/neck/chin. when contracting pull up and and back into the hip, rather than just a straight motion. much much better contraction, is that clearer? sorry about the naff explanation beforehand


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Ah yes I understand you now! I used to do 1 arm db rows and actually liked them.

Aren't they primarily for your lats though, whereas bb rows work your rhomboids etc.?


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## sully807 (Jul 28, 2010)

if your doing widegrip chins then would be smashing your upper back with those (depending form and mechanics) and db rows are perfect counterpart but this is my own opinion and do mix it up a lot


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

AJ91, I think I know what you mean but unfortunately my gym doesn't have a power rack/cage. Just a squat rack with spotters but they are too high to do what you're suggesting.

One thing I found strange, I used to do Yates rows a few weeks ago then when I joined my new gym I switched to t-bar rows and I could barely lift 1/2 the weight I was using before. I'm assuming this is due to the greater ROM and angle to my body?

I put 50kg on and could barely get 5 reps...made me feel like a little girl lol


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

sully807 said:


> if your doing widegrip chins then would be smashing your upper back with those (depending form and mechanics)


When you say depending on form and mechanics do you mean by bringing your chest to the bar for each rep?


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## sully807 (Jul 28, 2010)

more by the way of where you feel them working and what your focusing on. wg chins smash my whole back as il squeeze focusing on the entire muscle group. but in terms of lat emphasis yates rows are all about lat focus entirely on lats


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

I think I might just lower the weight and concentrate on using my back on the t-bar rows then. Slow controlled positives and hold at the top of each contraction.

If I can't get the hang of it after a few weeks then I'm scrapping them altogether and I'll just concentrate on power cleans.


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

have you tried pendlay rows?

i do them now cos when i was doing standard BO rows i was starting to hunch and pendlays use an arched back and rowing from the floor.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

I don't think you have to do bentover rows but I think there's a lot of benefit from finding a row that works for you... rows hit the rhomboids and lats in a way I don't think chins or pullups can (except maybe for chins to the sternum).

My favourite is single arm rows with full extension and contraction and a little twist of my body at the top to increase the peak contraction even more. Much greater ROM than bar rows and much more feel in the muscle. Bentover rows I don't mind, but don't get on so well with the other variants like pendlay rows (too much lower back for me) or yates rows (too much traps). Long pully cable rows are a great exercise if your gym has the set up.


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## EchoSupplements (Jul 19, 2010)

I never used to do them for the same reason - awkward feeling - but recently I've realised that 90% of the time if I don't like something it is because I'm **** at it... so it is something I need to work on, not just avoid.

Not saying this is the same for you but try lowering the weight a lot and start trying to feel it - I do alternating underhand / overhand barbell rows and can REALLY feel it in my back, make sure your grip isn't too wide I do shoulder width and no more otherwise it starts to feel awkward.


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Echo has hit the nail on the head I think... I used to think squats werent for me till I got the form right or at least better... try varying the grip width till you find one that works as I found that too narrow and its so awkward it feels wrong, too wide and its not really doing much... also watch the weight, some advice from Con from a while back was not too lift so much that you couldnt pause (even if just a little) at the top to squeeze the back and this has helped me not only nail the form and feel it in my back much more but also add weight to the bar...


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## zoco (Nov 23, 2010)

Bent over rows are a great exercise for back mass.The only thing better than rows are probably deadlifts.


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## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i have not used Bent over rows for 14yrs and it has not done any harm to my back development


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I've started doing bent over rows recently as wide grip pull ups are giving my shoulder grief, i also found them awkward at first and wasn't sure about the overhand or underhand grip. I just started by putting 20kg on the bar and did that til i got the right feel and have now started putting a bit more weight on it.

I've also started doing dumbell rows.


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

as said above try pendlay rows

If you're doing madcows that is the row he recommends you do, not bent over rows

read this

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/bb-rows-madcow-366601.html


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Thanks for the link crouchmagic.

Do you think it would be possible to replace the pendlay rows with t-bar rows? They are both pulling at 90 degrees to the torso so they should be very similar right?


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## 8103 (May 5, 2008)

anabolik said:


> Thanks for the link crouchmagic.
> 
> Do you think it would be possible to replace the pendlay rows with t-bar rows? They are both pulling at 90 degrees to the torso so they should be very similar right?


Yes it would be fine

I don't think there should be argument regarding type of row to be honest, all rowing movements are beneficial for back development, choose one you like and choose one you know you can progress well with


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## Hard Trainer (Apr 29, 2009)

Its always good to switch exercises from time to time matey


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

I do Pen. Rows, get on with them a damn sign better than conventional BB style.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

I would just do them mate, I think they're fairly effective (Y)


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## anabolik (Aug 19, 2010)

Alrighty then I'm gonna keep doing t-bar rows for the time being and drop the weight to about 40kg and work my way up.

Thanks all for your helpful advice!


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