# Legs & shoulders



## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Are there any views on training Legs and shoulders together, i've read a few posts that suggest its not a good idea, I've been told that the shoulders are only a small muscle that are generally overtrained, hence I do chest/tri, back/bi and Legs/shoulders, day on day off, I do change every few weeks but just wanted a few more opinions on:beer:


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## leveret (Jun 13, 2007)

Why not try it

I have just started,

Chest/Tri - sometimes add in another shoulder exercise but my shoulders get wrecked doing bench / dips anyway

Back/Bi - generally do shoulders with these, just something simple like dumbell press for 5x5

Legs


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

Shoulders pair very well with back, I tend to find. It feels like I'm hitting the whole region that day, because sometimes after doing shoulders (previous to adding them to back day) I would find my rear delt on my right side felt more pumped, but by incorporating the whole tie-in format, I get a much more even result.

Legs should ideally be trained alone, but if you have to pair them, do them with a small muscle where most of the exercises can be performed seated or lying. I pair mine with triceps.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

Cheers lads


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## dholmes290181 (Aug 26, 2008)

Back and shoulder days also solves the problem of when to train traps

btw Ihave found that by mixing the split up Im sure im getting better results

I always did chest/tri back/bi legs/shoulders

but now I mix it up and sometimes do

chest/ bi back/shoulder leg/tri

and others

due to the tricep not being knackered I found I could use more weight , then when I go back to che/tri you know what its like you dont want to go back down might be all in the brain !!

Im a travelling engineer so have to use crappy/very good hotel gyms a lot, so if they got good sqaut ill do legs if not ill put them to the end of the split until I get back to mighty worcester fitness physique gym


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

i do legs -then shoulder press only 3 working sets,works for me.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

lol are you seriously telling me you can train:

quads

hams

calves

front delts

side delts

rear delts

in one session and really be giving each exercise your all.

Legs on their own!

unless its an ultra abreviated session ie...

Squat

Shoulder Press

good for beginners missing bits for intermediates


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

delts and legs works well

squats

power cleans

seated db press

side lats

leg curls

upward row


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## Ollie B (Mar 14, 2007)

As i missed yesterdays session i will be doing legs and shoulders together.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

MXD said:


> delts and legs works well
> 
> squats
> 
> ...


Rear Delts?


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

on back day


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

MXD said:


> delts and legs works well
> 
> squats
> 
> ...


Mmmmmm upright rows... A one way ticket to screwed wrists and RCs :thumb:

Do them on a rope on the cable machine if you must do them


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

I dissagree. Do them with an ez bar (which I should of said - Doh!) and no higher than nipple height hits the delts hard.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

MXD said:


> I dissagree. Do them with an ez bar (which I should of said - Doh!) and no higher than nipple height hits the delts hard.


So do disagree that flat bar upright rows can cause problems....? :whistling:


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

TH&S said:


> So do disagree that flat bar upright rows can cause problems....? :whistling:


haha you've got me there!

I seriously think most of the rc problems is peoples narrow grip and over flexion of the shoulders, which would place a massive amount of strain on it.

Nipple hight and grip where your arms fall is oh so kosher :cool2:


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

MXD said:


> haha you've got me there!
> 
> I seriously think most of the rc problems is peoples narrow grip and over flexion of the shoulders, which would place a massive amount of strain on it.
> 
> Nipple hight and grip where your arms fall is oh so kosher :cool2:


I prefer high pulls to upright rows personally as they feel alot more comfortable.

Then again - I don't do either exercise these days


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Argh high pulls are ace, love these did them on my legs and shoulders workout yesterday infact


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

MXD said:


> Argh high pulls are ace, love these did them on my legs and shoulders workout yesterday infact


Really you need to be able to drop the bar to the floor IMHO, rather than drop it against your body and smash your balls. :whistling:


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

haha, innit just!

The pitfalls of working out in fitinness first!

I walk in and everyone hates me, glares as if im some evil abomination. All because I drop the bars while deadlifting and cleaning, fuking douches.


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

MXD said:


> haha, innit just!
> 
> The pitfalls of working out in fitinness first!
> 
> I walk in and everyone hates me, glares as if im some evil abomination. All because I drop the bars while deadlifting and cleaning, fuking douches.


Join the club.

People training just think I'm nuts. The staff don't know what to think.

The PTs think I just train legs :whistling:

And I just think that everyone is in my way


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## paulo (Feb 17, 2007)

GTT said:


> lol are you seriously telling me you can train:
> 
> quads
> 
> ...


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## dholmes290181 (Aug 26, 2008)

THands what are high pulls


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## Inggasson (Jul 13, 2008)

I superset chins with upright rows on back/shoulders day to get an awesome pump. I use straps for both as my grip is rubbish and I'm conscious of the risk to my wrists, so the extra support helps. I use a close-grip with an EZ-Bar for the rows and bring it up to collar-height.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

dholmes290181 said:


> THands what are high pulls


Fine then......... I could tell you....... as you didn't ask me i ent saying :tongue:


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## dholmes290181 (Aug 26, 2008)

pretty please


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## recc (Apr 27, 2008)

i seem to have a weird mutated left middle delt making upright rows uncomfortable, and lat raises still dont seem great, is their anything else for middle delts? and what are high pulls? anyone can answer


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2008)

How advanced are your legs.

I would say stick to legs, push and pull work outs you just cant beat them until you reach a very advanced stage.


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## dholmes290181 (Aug 26, 2008)

Here you go clever d*cks , if us new guys have google and you tube everything wtp of this forum, selfish bstards you should be ashamed,

Would be nice to get some opinion from you guys


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

haha I was gonna sort you out lolz

I forgot and gymd it instead - sorry


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## Tall (Aug 14, 2007)

dholmes290181 said:


> Here you go clever d*cks , if us new guys have google and you tube everything wtp of this forum, selfish bstards you should be ashamed,
> 
> Would be nice to get some opinion from you guys


That's a bad example of a high pull.

Too much weight, not enough ROM.

Better examples on youtube.

Oh and take a chill pill FFS.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

GTT said:


> *lol* are you seriously telling me you can train:
> 
> quads
> 
> ...


Squat 2 wup sets 4 working sets 6 reps

seated leg ext 4 sets 8 reps

seated leg curl 4 sets 12 reps

dont do calves on legs, calves with abs twice a week

db press 4 sets of 6

lateral raise 3 sets of 8

don't do rears as back day sorts these out imho

workout about 1hr 10 mins which is just a tad long imo, like to get out before 1 hour

Seems a decent w out to me but the local pro says "don't do legs and shoulders together"

Was just trying to get a reason:confused1:


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

tel3563 said:


> Squat 2 wup sets 4 working sets 6 reps
> 
> seated leg ext 4 sets 8 reps
> 
> ...


HIT style training when doing squats i will make myself feel very ill borderline sick/passout which is why i simply could not do another bodypart other than maybe abs on leg day

you do 4x6 for squats-- IMO i wouldnt run a low rep range with squats because i wouldnt want to put myself at risk of injury from the extra poundage i could stick on the bar, personally i always stick to at least 10 reps,somtimes 15, and somtimes 20 -- try 20 rep squats, you will experience great growth from it, plus i think you will find an allround holistic effect on your body from that kind of stimulation.

another point-- how come your rep ranges are inconsistent between bodyparts--

I think on here you will find that many people do things in many different ways, the idea is for you to find what works for you.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

GTT said:


> HIT style training when doing squats i will make myself feel very ill borderline sick/passout which is why i simply could not do another bodypart other than maybe abs on leg day This is a good point and perhaps a reminder to me that I may not be going as intense as I used to, I do have to watch it with my back and when I'm on 12to 15 rep range (which I throw in for 4 weeks every 2 or 3 months) it tends to aggravate my back more.
> 
> you do 4x6 for squats-- IMO i wouldnt run a low rep range with squats because i wouldnt want to put myself at risk of injury from the extra poundage i could stick on the bar, personally i always stick to at least 10 reps,somtimes 15, and somtimes 20 -- try 20 rep squats, you will experience great growth from it, plus i think you will find an allround holistic effect on your body from that kind of stimulation. Will deffo try the 20s thanks
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice and the time to write it, :beer:


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

High rep squats agravate your lower back?, so what injury are you carrying?

Do you do deadlifts?--if not, and your lowerback injury is muscular then 20 rep lightish deadlifts are a fantastic way of resolving lower back issues.

if you have a lowerback injury and you are doing deads at 6 reps, again up it to around 20ish, once you feel a benefit from it, lower the rep range down to 10

Personally ive never got anything from low rep ranges other than injuries, i always stick to around 10 reps, once i can do 12 i up the weight.


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

GTT said:


> High rep squats agravate your lower back?, so what injury are you carrying? Bottom 3 vertibrae generally worn and torn, squats in general put me at risk but over the years I've had more aggravation with higher rep ranges, dunno why, you would think it would be the other way round? Shouldn't do squats but I do
> 
> Do you do deadlifts? Do dls very rarely and only for 4 weeks max, vary light and heavy, last time I was doing deads had to have 6 weeks off, so as much as I like them, there a bit of a no no--if not, and your lowerback injury is muscular then 20 rep lightish deadlifts are a fantastic way of resolving lower back issues.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Ok in light of the vertabre issue, forget what i said about squats and deads.

With squats, your lower back bothering you could be muscular because its a weak link from not training it due to the vertabrae issue??--it just sounds a bit odd that a heavier weight doesnt bother it.

I do 1 (sometimes 2) exercise per bodypart and 2 sets per exercise. Idea being that if you have not done enough to stimulate growth in the first 2 sets then you are not training hard enough. - the concept of volume training seems illogical to me, however i know it also works.


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## gerg (Aug 17, 2008)

thrusters; legs, core and shoulders in one exercise


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## TH0R (Aug 15, 2007)

GTT said:


> Ok in light of the vertabre issue, forget what i said about squats and deads.
> 
> With squats, your lower back bothering you could be muscular because its a weak link from not training it due to the vertabrae issue??--it just sounds a bit odd that a heavier weight doesnt bother it.
> 
> I do 1 (sometimes 2) exercise per bodypart and 2 sets per exercise. Idea being that if you have not done enough to stimulate growth in the first 2 sets then you are not training hard enough. - the concept of volume training seems illogical to me, however i know it also works.


So you do only 2 working sets per bp, how many times a week do you train each bp, I prosume your workouts are short and sharp, do you bother with isolation exercises at all? Very interesting concept, do you have any links for reading up on this?


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

tel3563 said:


> So you do only 2 working sets per bp, how many times a week do you train each bp, I prosume your workouts are short and sharp, do you bother with isolation exercises at all? Very interesting concept, do you have any links for reading up on this?


Just standard HIT training really.

train each bodypart once every week

On my 2nd set i will usually round it off with a drop set.

Say for instance i do 9 reps one week and the next i make 12 -- then i know ive got stronger and likely increased muscle size--so whats the point in me doing another 3 exercises at 4/5 sets--all i am doing is fatigueing my nervous system and making my muscle take longer to recover.

the extra reps tells me ive utilized my new capacity in that muscle and as long as ive trained intensily then ive done enough to cause the same affect for next week as long as adequate nutrition/rest.


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

i am gonna sail against the wind here and say that heavy squats are the way to go for overall mass.

i dont care for 20 rep squats or the like, never have done and never will.

when your body is buckling under a bending bar and you need the explosion of tnt just to leave the floor on a heavy squat, your body will adapt and grow as necessary. mush more than using light weights for loads of reps.

loads of squats with light weight are for women that have just given birth and need to stop their guts from falling out of their lady gardens.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

LOL ok so say for instance for 10 reps i am squatting 450lb,for 20 reps i can squat almost 400lb

so tell me who is talking about light weights here for women.

anyone who thinks true balls to the wall 20 rep squats are easily trains like a queer 

nothing will make you feel like youve just taken a few years off your life than 20 reppers


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

I agree that most women could not do reps of ten with 200kgs+

I dont agree that it best for growth though.

Lifting heavy makes your body need to grow muscle out of necessity, not vanity.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Have a read.

Legs respond well to high reps, dont do it all the time but its great to throw in for a few weeks at a time.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/irontamer5.htm

http://www.leehayward.com/squats.htm

http://www.liftforlife.com/TheCheapestAnabolic.htm


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## trickymicky69 (Oct 1, 2004)

i dont train squats for legs.

that is a novice way of thinking.

squats are a compound (that means it hits more than your legs, a bit like deadlift isnt just a back exercise), if you want a leg exercise try a nice calf-raise machine......

sorry mate just takin the micky but for every article you can show me about squatting with high reps, i could show you a hundred more that goes the other way.


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## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Lets just agree to differ, different things work best for different people


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