# Simply cannot change body composition



## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Sorry I have asked a few different questions recently but im becoming ever more frustrated at the moment!!

Been back to training after 3 yr lay off and following dorian yates 1985 early split. Train 4 times per week doing a 2 way split so all body parts are trained twice a week.

Been training now for 23 weeks and I gained 11lbs and now trying to trim as BF is approx. 20%. However, despite all this my body simply doesn't look any different to 23 weeks ago.

I see some PT's on social media showing all these amazing transformations in 12-16 weeks. I literally look like I just stepped into the gym for day1,

My eating is good, starting trying to bulk at 3500cals per day and gained a lb or 2 a week now approx. 2100 cals per day at the moment while trying to lean, I train hard to pretty much failure 4 times a week increasing weights as I go and focusing on form.

I don't do any PEDS so maybe that's holding me back but its seriously pissing me off that nothing seems to quite click when I see others smashing their results and looking good. not really sure what else to try with regards to the training but its very motivational when u don't see results back in pics and mirror.

Don't want to go down the gear route so I hope leaning out will help but still don't have any muscle mass built up yet to come through.... just a bit of a Monday morning rant


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

You're just expecting everything to happen faster than is realistic.

You need to be thinking about cutting for a few months not a few weeks for example.


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

Baggy said:


> I see some PT's on social media showing all these amazing transformations in 12-16 weeks. I literally look like I just stepped into the gym for day1,


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Drop your calories more, some people have a wide range of maintenence, and some people have a narrow range, I'm on 1600 cals at the minute and dropping weight (some fat/some muscle) I've lost 10kg in 2.5 months, ifnyour not losing weight your eating too much, it's not rocket science, I struggle eating so little when training but due to an enforced lay off with sciatica I've found it falling off! Way easier than when I was training oddly, hormones maybe? I have no clue if I'm honest but am lighter than I've ever been and gonna get as lean as I can in as short a time possible without drugs or assistance


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

superdrol said:


> Drop your calories more, some people have a wide range of maintenence, and some people have a narrow range, I'm on 1600 cals at the minute and dropping weight (some fat/some muscle) I've lost 10kg in 2.5 months, ifnyour not losing weight your eating too much, it's not rocket science, I struggle eating so little when training but due to an enforced lay off with sciatica I've found it falling off! Way easier than when I was training oddly, hormones maybe? I have no clue if I'm honest but am lighter than I've ever been and gonna get as lean as I can in as short a time possible without drugs or assistance


 I know you aren't looking for advice but FWIW I really wouldn't be cutting aggressively whilst not training and not using PEDs, as I fear that's just asking for muscle loss.


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

After 3 years lay off, I would have concentrate on removing excess fat first till the time my intercoastal muscles are visible and then increase my calories and making up my strength.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

tren


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> I know you aren't looking for advice but FWIW I really wouldn't be cutting aggressively whilst not training and not using PEDs, as I fear that's just asking for muscle loss.


 I wouldn't if it wasn't the first time I've dropped weight like this and achieved it, I'm going for it as I've been off the gym for a year with my back anyway and got fat! and I want to lean off while I can make the most of it, have just taken delivery of some items to prevent muscle loss as I go further into the cut, I had a fair bit to lose so it should've been ok to drop a touch of muscle but now I'm leaner around 20% I am gonna be assisted with prob 200mg/week as a low dose assist and then up it to 600mg test/wk once I get to76-78kg and up the cals after that with a lean bulk

im also starting push/pull with legs intermingled this week while I start the low dose assist

ill also be honest and say my last deca a few yrs back had me at 66kg of lean mass and 24% body fat at 86kg from memory and I was 93kg and 25-28% when I started, so not had plenty to fall off initially

I know it's unorthodox, and not ideal but I wasn't big in any way in the first place so I'm going for the lean off first approach and making the most of the 'splitting with gf' appetite suppression as normally I'm hungry as f**k by now and binging, it's just making the most of where I am I guess

thanks for chiming in though, it's all good info!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

superdrol said:


> I wouldn't if it wasn't the first time I've dropped weight like this and achieved it, I'm going for it as I've been off the gym for a year with my back anyway and got fat! and I want to lean off while I can make the most of it, have just taken delivery of some items to prevent muscle loss as I go further into the cut, I had a fair bit to lose so it should've been ok to drop a touch of muscle but now I'm leaner around 20% I am gonna be assisted with prob 200mg/week as a low dose assist and then up it to 600mg test/wk once I get to76-78kg and up the cals after that with a lean bulk
> 
> im also starting push/pull with legs intermingled this week while I start the low dose assist
> 
> ...


 It's a bit different if you've not trained for a year, as you're going to lose muscle whatever you do unfortinately. Good luck with your recovery.

Very different to the OP's situation though of course.


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Ultrasonic said:


> It's a bit different if you've not trained for a year, as you're going to lose muscle whatever you do unfortinately. Good luck with your recovery.
> 
> Very different to the OP's situation though of course.


 Yes it is, but his cals are too high if he's not losing fat/weight, it was more the bit about lower cals sometimes being needed to try and encourage him on 

incidentally ive lost very little muscle mass looking at my arms, triceps are very similar to three months ago, biceps are similar to always and I've got cuts coming between those and delts...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

superdrol said:


> Yes it is, but his cals are too high if he's not losing fat/weight, it was more the bit about lower cals sometimes being needed to try and encourage him on


 I think he probably is losing weight now actually, but just doesn't think he looks different.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks guys. Yeah definitely look no different and just gave me the raging hump while getting ready for work this morning!!

 Im chucking in a 45 min spin class on my day off weights during the working week to see how that works out

cv also added to my 4 weight sessions a week alternating between 10 min uphill walks 2 times and 10 min interval sprints 2 times


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Baggy said:


> Thanks guys. Yeah definitely look no different and just gave me the raging hump while getting ready for work this morning!!
> 
> Im chucking in a 45 min spin class on my day off weights during the working week to see how that works out
> 
> cv also added to my 4 weight sessions a week alternating between 10 min uphill walks 2 times and 10 min interval sprints 2 times


 Are you losing weight slowly?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

superdrol said:


> Are you losing weight slowly?


 between 0 and 0.5lbs a week i guess over last 3 weeks - I had gained 11lbs while bulking as ideally I want to get bigger, but as my BF is quote high at over 20% (estimated) I need to lose body fat - which will in turn probably lose some of the small amount of muscle I managed to gain.

I am trying to keep lifting all my weights from bulking while eating less.....


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> between 0 and 0.5lbs a week i guess over last 3 weeks - I had gained 11lbs while bulking as ideally I want to get bigger, but as my BF is quote high at over 20% (estimated) I need to lose body fat - which will in turn probably lose some of the small amount of muscle I managed to gain.
> 
> I am trying to keep lifting all my weights from bulking while eating less.....


 How many days have you been eating 2100 kcal for, and what has happened to your weight in this time?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> How many days have you been eating 2100 kcal for, and what has happened to your weight in this time?


 Hi mate

*went from 3,500 bulking to 2,500 and weight dropped from 202.4lbs to 200.6lbs - 1,8lbs in 3 weeks - perhaps a lot of water in the first week?*

*then from 2,500 to 2,100 weight has dropped from 200.6lbs to 199.4lbs - 1.2lbs in 3 weeks.*

Most of the above included zero cv, whereas now I do 10mins cv at the end of each session (4 x /week).


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Hi mate
> 
> *went from 3,500 bulking to 2,500 and weight dropped from 202.4lbs to 200.6lbs - 1,8lbs in 3 weeks - perhaps a lot of water in the first week?*
> 
> ...


 Was it really 3 weeks ago I suggested you reduced to 2100 kcal? I thought it was much more recent?


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Was it really 3 weeks ago I suggested you reduced to 2100 kcal? I thought it was much more recent?


 let me double check as I have the dates on my phone when I changed....


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> Was it really 3 weeks ago I suggested you reduced to 2100 kcal? I thought it was much more recent?


 you're right, its 2 weeks, will be 3 this Saturday weigh in


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> you're right, its 2 weeks, will be 3 this Saturday weigh in


 In your other thread it was 6 February where you said you were going to drop calories more, after I suggested it on 4 February. So 8 or 10 days? It matters as I think the rate of fat loss is about twice what you think it is, and is actually reasonable.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> you're right, its 2 weeks, will be 3 this Saturday weigh in


 Jesus man, I was at 16% (ish) bodyfat at new year.

Ive been cutting (natty) for 8 weeks now lost 16lbs. Its tough as hell, but for the first 4 weeks I saw NO difference at all. even though the weight was dropping.

Just stick to it man, 2 weeks is nothing.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Jesus man, I was at 16% (ish) bodyfat at new year.
> 
> Ive been cutting (natty) for 8 weeks now lost 16lbs. Its tough as hell, but for the first 4 weeks I saw NO difference at all. even though the weight was dropping.
> 
> Just stick to it man, 2 weeks is nothing.


 cheers mate, I understand it will take some time I just need to get into a decent order in terms of cv, food, training to make it work


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Baggy said:


> cheers mate, I understand it will take some time I just need to get into a decent order in terms of cv, food, training to make it work


 Just make sure food most importantly is right. keep cals low. and chip away at it. in 8 weeks youll be happier for it when you can see a real difference.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> In your other thread it was 6 February where you said you were going to drop calories more, after I suggested it on 4 February. So 8 or 10 days? It matters as I think the rate of fat loss is about twice what you think it is, and is actually reasonable.


 Ah yeah just checked that thread.

So my phone I have the 4th feb and the 11th feb weigh ins so for me that was the 2 weeks but I think you're right.

Either way from the time I stopped bulking and starting to drop cals, around 14th Jan, I went from 202.4lbs to 199.4lbs - 3lbs in prob 5 weeks


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> Ah yeah just checked that thread.
> 
> So my phone I have the 4th feb and the 11th feb weigh ins so for me that was the 2 weeks but I think you're right.
> 
> Either way from the time I stopped bulking and starting to drop cals, around 14th Jan, I went from 202.4lbs to 199.4lbs - 3lbs in prob 5 weeks


 What matters is your current rate of weight loss, not was was happening before when you were eating more.

Did you try weighing yourself daily? If not it won't be till this weekend that you'll have data for a full week eating 2100 kcal to see how this is working.


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> What matters is your current rate of weight loss, not was was happening before when you were eating more.
> 
> Did you try weighing yourself daily? If not it won't be till this weekend that you'll have data for a full week eating 2100 kcal to see how this is working.


 Yeah understood mate cheers. will see what Saturday brings!

yeah did a week of daily weigh ins and was pretty static back then


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## NoGutsNoGloryy (Jan 7, 2013)

It's your age buddy


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

ha, I think you're right mate, poor genes, poor age, no natural test!!


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Baggy said:


> ha, I think you're right mate, poor genes, poor age, no natural test!!


 And eating too many pies  .


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## Baggy (Jan 7, 2011)

Ultrasonic said:


> And eating too many pies  .


  plus 25 latte coffees and a pack of custard creams a day cant help....


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