# work out to hit top of biceps?



## trezcool (Feb 20, 2010)

i have been training for a few months and have noticed some decent gains, but i am having trouble with my biceps. they have definitely increased but when at rest hanging down by my side, they bulge at the bottom but decrease towards the top and dip in. I have tried varying my routine and tried to do exercises that may target the top more, but not having any success. does anybody have any hints or advise.

cheers

:thumb:


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## tom_91 (Jul 7, 2009)

You cannot shape muscles, you can only make them bigger. Just make sure you are hitting both heads of the bicep.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

At a guess most of your bicep work will be curls of some sort????

Curls only stimulate the bicep at one joint, the elbow.

Try body drag curls, and reverse grip pulldowns, or reverse grip chins. These will stimulate the bicep from both the shoulder and elbow joints, and may give you the stimulation you want at the top.

IMO the post above about shaping is not strictly true. The exercises you do, and the form in which you do them will stimulate different fibres in the muscle. Only those sufficiently stimulated will give and adaptive response and grow.


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

tom_91 said:


> You cannot shape muscles, you can only make them bigger. Just make sure you are hitting both heads of the bicep.


There is certain exercises which will hit certain areas more efficiently, in which case developing the "Peak". I assume thats what the O.P. wants to target?

If so try preacher curls, strict form with dumbbell.

Lots of other ways to help growth in certain areas, close grip curls are great for building outer head. Heavy barbell curls are great imo for developing thickness and overall bicep size.


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

just keep curling mate if your ment to have thick peaky biceps they will happen,its all genetically predetermined,there is no way to totally isolate out parts of the biceps when doing an exercise,its physically impossible,but you can sway the stimulus more to either head slightly more using varying exercises.

Just one thing.If anyone comes in here shouting do preachers and concentration curls for 'peak' i'll neg you till the end of time for stupidity :lol:


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## Chris17 (Sep 1, 2009)

weeman said:


> just keep curling mate if your ment to have thick peaky biceps they will happen,its all genetically predetermined,there is no way to totally isolate out parts of the biceps when doing an exercise,its physically impossible,but you can sway the stimulus more to either head slightly more using varying exercises.
> 
> Just one thing.If anyone comes in here shouting do preachers and concentration curls for 'peak' i'll neg you till the end of time for stupidity :lol:


I'm not a fan of preacher curls but what's wrong with concentration curls arnold schwarzenegger style of course :whistling: I like doing them for the pump and I feel it properly isolates my bicep.


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

A curl is a curl is a curl IMO!!

The only variation is the twisting of the wrist as in a standing dumbbell curl.

There is 1 exception which is the body drag curl, which is really just a play on words, because it isn't really a curl it's more of a lift. So take that 1 out, and you have a curl is a curl is a curl.

I suppose a really badly performed curl could be a wavy. Like their hair is not curly it's wavy


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## B-GJOE (May 7, 2009)

Chris17 said:


> I'm not a fan of preacher curls but what's wrong with concentration curls arnold schwarzenegger style of course :whistling: I like doing them for the pump and I feel it properly isolates my bicep.


Sod the pump, if the pump was any indication of muscular hypertrophy then bodybuilding would be easy, just do high volume high reps.

Then again, if you feel like you are cumming when you get the pump carry on, you'll be cumming in the gym, cumming at home just like the Oak


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## weeman (Sep 6, 2007)

Chris17 said:


> I'm not a fan of preacher curls but what's wrong with concentration curls arnold schwarzenegger style of course :whistling: I like doing them for the pump and I feel it properly isolates my bicep.


nothing wrong with it at all,just people like to shout it only builds 'peak' lmao yeah,of course it does.curl is a curl is a curl 



B|GJOE said:


> A curl is a curl is a curl IMO!!
> 
> The only variation is the twisting of the wrist as in a standing dumbbell curl.
> 
> ...


totally agree:thumbup1:


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## Chris17 (Sep 1, 2009)

B|GJOE said:


> Sod the pump, if the pump was any indication of muscular hypertrophy then bodybuilding would be easy, just do high volume high reps.
> 
> Then again, if you feel like you are cumming when you get the pump carry on, you'll be cumming in the gym, cumming at home just like the Oak


No, I totally agree with your first point mate, my routine isn't of course based on just concentration curls for biceps. I do hammer, seated curls etc. What I tend to do is drop sets on one/two sets of my arm workout.

haha yeah that video is legendary! unfortunately I don't feel as if I'm cumming when I do them. Could be because I don't have ripped and musclular 22 inch arms. :whistling:


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

http://www.bigmusclesfast.com/exercise-concentration-curls.html

http://www.musclemagfitness.com/bodybuilding/exercises/dumbbell-concentration-curls.html

http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/index.cfm?page=article&go2=907&StartRow=2

http://www.greatweightlifting.com/Arms/Concentration-Curls.html

I added concentration/preachers into my routine over the last months and got a lot more peak on my biceps. Just saying, I understand genetics has a lot to do with it, but thats not to say that doing certain exercises such as ones listed WON'T build on a certain area of the bicep....


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## glen danbury (May 23, 2006)

I dont think a curl is a curl at all

here is my opinion of it in an extract of an article i wrote

Look at any arm training article and you will find an endless array of curls variations that promise to either thicken, peak or lengthen your biceps. Unfortunately some of these proposed benefits are physiologically impossible, but fret not as this article should explain how varying your curls can alter loading patterns and cause preferential recruitment of different elbow flexors that will help you build the set of arms you desire.

Several muscles make up the anterior part of the upper arm and aid in flexion of the elbow (bringing your hand closer to your shoulder). The most recognisable muscle of the upper arm is the bicep brachii. The bicep muscle is what forms the ball like protrusion when you bend your elbow. Like its name suggests (Bi = two, Ceps = head) it contains two compartments, the long and the short head.

The long head originates up over the shoulder from the supraglenoid tubercle. The short head originates from the caracoid process and joins the long head to insert into the tuberosity of the radius (part of the forearm). The function of the bicep muscle is to flex (bend) the elbow as well as flex (raise) the arm at the shoulder and supinatation (turn palm up).

The second elbow flexor is the smaller brachialis which lies across the outer edge of the elbow and provides a visible contour between the muscles of the anterior and posterior upper arm. The brachialis originates from the anterior distal surface of the humerus and inserts into the tuberosity of the ulna.

The final elbow flexor is the brachioradialis whose bulk tends to form the forearm but still acts as an elbow flexor. The brachioradialis originates from the lateral epicondyle of the humerus (the bony lump on the outside of your elbow) and inserts at the lateral aspect of the styloid process of the radius. All the muscles above aid in elbow flexion, but due to their anatomical positioning or physiochemical make up can be preferentially recruited to a greater or lesser degree. Considering this lets delve into the factors that alter loading and recruiting of the different elbow flexors.

*<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o>* *</o>*

*Movement variations and preferential recruitment* -

<o> </o>

*Shunt vs. Spurt*.

Muscles can be classified as either shunt or spurt muscles. A shunt muscle has its proximal attachment near the joint it acts over and its distal attachment at a greater distance away from the joint. As a shunt muscle contracts it applies force along the bones and pulls the joint surfaces together in order to stabilise the joint. The brachialis and brachioradialis are examples of shunt muscles.

The opposite can be said of spurt muscles, as their proximal attachment is away from the joint and its distal attachment is close. This enables the spurt muscle to apply force across the bone instead of along to create movement about the joint. Spurt muscles tend to be prime movers and the bicep brachii is classified as a spurt muscle.

Due to both biomechanical efficiency and there roles as shunt or spurt muscles, the biceps and brachialis are loaded and recruited differently at differing points in elbow flexion. During the outer range of the movement (arms virtually straight) the brachialis and brachioradialis are preferentially recruited. Conversely during the inner range of movement (arms bent) the bicep is preferentially recruited.

Considering this choosing an exercise that mechanically loads either the inner or outer range will effectively load either the biceps or brachialis and brachioradialis.

<o> </o>

*Angle of pull<o></o>*

To recruit any muscle effectively the resistance must be mechanically loading within the same direction as the fibres orientation. This means that as the muscle contracts it directly resists or overcomes the loading being placed upon it. For the elbow flexors this means altering the position of the hand through various degrees of pronation and supination. For the biceps the optimal line of pull will be when there is near full supination (palms facing up), yet the bicep also has a secondary role as a supinating muscle, as such starting in a pronated position and supinating during the outer ranges activates the bicep but allows for the optimal line of pull of pronation during the biceps more effective inner range of motion.

The brachialis will have its fibres orientated optimally when the hand is in a semi pronated or neutral position (palms are facing each other). Lastly the brachioradialis has the best line of pull during full pronation (palms facing down).

*<o>* *</o>*

*Shoulder positioning <o></o>*

The next factor worth considering is shoulder positioning. The next element only relates to the bicep brachii, but with increasing shoulder extension there becomes an ever increasing stretch upon the long head of the biceps which runs up over the shoulder and originates upon the supraglenoid tubercle. With the increasing stretch there is a corresponding activation of the muscle spindles and a reflex activation of the stretched muscle.

Shoulder positioning is also one of the key determinates of mechanical loading to the outer range or inner range when the body remains upright. As the shoulder flexes the fulcrum (elbow) shifts forward allowing maximal mechanical loading in the outer range, as the leverage becomes maximal when the arm is straight. Shoulder extension allows the opposite with the fulcrum moving back and mechanical loading occurring greatest in the inner range of movement.

*Speed of contraction<o></o>*

At this point you're probably thinking 'just tell me the exercises will ya!' Patients my fellow trainee, all in good time. The speed within which you perform your repetitions (rep cadence) will also affect recruitment. MRI studies have shown that during fast movements the bicep is preferentially recruited and conversely the brachialis has been shown to be recruited more during slow movements. Several theories abound as to why this occurs; firstly it has been proposed that the pennations of the fibres are suited better for fast movements in the biceps due to its strap like configuration unlike the brachialis.

Secondly the fibre type compositions of the muscles could be different, with the brachialis being a shunt muscle and its role as a stabilisation muscle require more fatigue resistance and therefore a greater proportion of slow twitch fibres. In opposition the bicep is a prime mover and is proposed to be composed of a greater proportion of fast twitch fibres. Considering that the brachioradialis also acts as a shunt muscle it could be concluded the composition is similar.

*<o>* *</o>*

*<o>* *</o>*

*TUT and fiber type of individual muscles<o></o>*

Considering the above information if the brachialis and brachioradialis do contain a greater numbering of slow oxidative fibres, they will require a greater amount of time under tension (TUT - time during a set actually working) in order to exhaust the fibres and create a stimulus for growth. That said it would be a wise idea to train the biceps with heavy loads and fast movements in order to recruit and exhaust the fast fibres.


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## trezcool (Feb 20, 2010)

cheers guys for your input.

yeah most of my routine is curls, and would like to develop peak more.


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## Mikazagreat (Apr 10, 2009)

Agree with the posts here, just 1 thing don't do much cheating and work the whole range of the movment.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

trezcool said:


> cheers guys for your input.
> 
> yeah most of my routine is curls, and *would like to develop peak more*.


You don't get a say in it mate - simple fact. If you are predetermined to grow your bicep tissue in such a way that it appears peaky, then you will build peak as you go.

If you are predetermined to have a flat bicep, nothing - NOTHING - short of surgery/injury/synthol possibly, is going to change that for you.

Sad but true - think about it logically for a minute. If it were possible to build peak, everyone would be running around with arms shaped like Arnies and Flex's... I don't see too much of that going round, do you :lol:


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

rs007 said:


> You don't get a say in it mate - simple fact. If you are predetermined to grow your bicep tissue in such a way that it appears peaky, then you will build peak as you go.
> 
> If you are predetermined to have a flat bicep, nothing - NOTHING - short of surgery/injury/synthol possibly, is going to change that for you.
> 
> Sad but true - think about it logically for a minute. If it were possible to build peak, everyone would be running around with arms shaped like Arnies and Flex's... I don't see too much of that going round, do you :lol:


But assuming one has good peaks naturally, one can build on the peaks and exagerrate it a lot more using certain exercises?


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

SK-XO said:


> http://www.bigmusclesfast.com/exercise-concentration-curls.html
> 
> http://www.musclemagfitness.com/bodybuilding/exercises/dumbbell-concentration-curls.html
> 
> ...


Mate please don't tell me you take all that stuff as gospel? I was 13 when I bought my first Flex, full of this sh1t it was, and even then I could see through it... it gets folks talking, sells mags, gets people reading.

The only reason you built peak, is because your arm is taking the natural shape it is pre-programmed to take as it gets bigger - congratulations, sounds like you are meant to have peaky bis 

If you understand the physics and mechanics at play, you'll quickly realise its pretty nigh impossible to target a specific point along a fibre bundle with an attachment at either end.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

SK-XO said:


> But assuming one has good peaks naturally, one can build on the peaks and exagerrate it a lot more using certain exercises?


Yes, but only by making your arm bigger, and making it take the shape it was always goign to.

If you take your routine, that you thought built you peak, and get someone with non peaky biceps - Stephen C is maybe a good example - it won't put fk all peak on his arms. But it WILL still make them grow. This is all you can do, take what you have been dealt, hammer fvck out of it, and make it bigger - it will take whatever shape it is going to take.


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Mate please don't tell me you take all that stuff as gospel? I was 13 when I bought my first Flex, full of this sh1t it was, and even then I could see through it... it gets folks talking, sells mags, gets people reading.
> 
> The only reason you built peak, is because your arm is taking the natural shape it is pre-programmed to take as it gets bigger - congratulations, sounds like you are meant to have peaky bis
> 
> If you understand the physics and mechanics at play, you'll quickly realise its pretty nigh impossible to target a specific point along a fibre bundle with an attachment at either end.


Right well assuming that you wanted to build the bicep outer region, doing close grip curls wouldn't do this?

Problem is I have more of a peak on my right then my left, and my bicep is drawn more inwards on left rather then the right. Cheers.


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## rs007 (May 28, 2007)

SK-XO said:


> Right well assuming that you wanted to build the bicep outer region, doing close grip curls wouldn't do this?
> 
> Problem is I have more of a peak on my right then my left, and my bicep is drawn more inwards on left rather then the right. Cheers.


Ahh now thats a different thing - that is two heads - not quite independant, but able to shift bias of stress between the two - but the effect is minor because the attachments of either head are still very close/shared - and anyway, being able to stress the two heads independantly has no relation to peak universally...

And anyway mate, unless your arms are a lean 20" prob not worth bothering about - just concentrate on making them bigger IMO...


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## SK-XO (Aug 6, 2009)

rs007 said:


> Ahh now thats a different thing - that is two heads - not quite independant, but able to shift bias of stress between the two - but the effect is minor because the attachments of either head are still very close/shared - and anyway, being able to stress the two heads independantly has no relation to peak universally...
> 
> And anyway mate, unless your arms are a lean 20" prob not worth bothering about - just concentrate on making them bigger IMO...


Haha I wish they were a lean 20". They are lean enough that I can see theres a slight inbalance between them. Im not gonna cry about it but it's a bit nippy.

Cheers.


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## Heathrow_Lad (Feb 25, 2010)

Try a exercise called 7's 21 and see how you get on with it. I find it works for me. But may not for you, depening on your diet, form etc.

Check it out on youtube.






I do it slightly different. I first do it from the floor to my waist, then from waist to the top, then full range. Works a treat for me. Feel full and pumped.


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## Rebus (May 22, 2006)

weeman said:


> just keep curling mate if your ment to have thick peaky biceps they will happen,its all genetically predetermined,there is no way to totally isolate out parts of the biceps when doing an exercise,its physically impossible,but you can sway the stimulus more to either head slightly more using varying exercises.
> 
> Just one thing.If anyone comes in here shouting do preachers and concentration curls for 'peak' i'll neg you till the end of time for stupidity :lol:


With you 100% here mate... :thumb:


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## Hawar (Mar 8, 2009)

if you want bicep peak, then when doing db curls, twist your wrist at the end and contract it hard for couple of seconds.

it happend to me as soon as i started doing this technique.


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