# Why aren't I massive?/training block thread



## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

What are people's opinions on keeping strict form? I've always kept pretty strict form when training but have increasingly been noticing round the gym (i know, I know dangerous thinking) no one else appears to keep form. For example, barbell curl for biceps I would lower the bar pretty slowly and pull it up towards my chest as sharply as needed but in a controlled way keeping my elbows in more or less the same position. I've never seen anyone else do this at the gym, everyone tends to use their body weight on the lift and dump the bar back down rapidly. Usually I'd forget about it as I thought the way I did it was 'right' but these guys are massive, which makes me think 'well they must be doing something right' so thought I'd ask?

....but this then led me on to realise I've now been training for about 5 years and you actually really couldn't tell looking at me.

My diet is fairly strict I take at least 30g of -protein every 3 hours. this is more or less always:

porridge + protein shake

Protein bar

200g chicken and rice

two tins of tuna

chicken or steak + veg

Milk protein shake

+ creatine, multi vits, fish oil

I'm currently working these groups on a day on day off basis

Shoulders & legs

chest and triceps

Back and Biceps

Abs (usually on a rest day/in between the others)

I've only just turned to the above in the last 6 months or so and noted improvement at first (probably the time ever), when I first started I was keen not to over train so was only training 3 days a week, have tried a few different routines before hitting the current (just for a bit of back story)

Any advice would be appreciated, everyone's different and I'm sure there'll be something out there that works for me. At the moment I'm a bit ****ed off - I do enjoy training , but I'm thinking after putting it before quite a lot of other things in my life and spending so much money at the supermarket/protein shop I've not seen the results I'd like so worried I may start to take it a bit less seriously.


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## BIG BUCK (Mar 26, 2010)

Up your protein

Change up your routine

Push harder and get another rep out

Increase weight and lower reps

Or take vitamin s.


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## NickR24 (Sep 9, 2009)

stop focusing on your barbell curl form for starters and focus on your squat, deadlift, bench, chins, MP, dips form...etc.

try eating some carbs as well, your diet is less than what I eat when im cutting.

eat loads, train heavy on compounds = growth. add in AAS = more growth.

simple.


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

Listen to the first 30 secs of this video, this may help.


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Bobby you didnt say your height / or weight AGe ???

but your diet looks lacking in calories... and like Nick says dont worry about bicep curls lol.... get the big compounds form good with heavy weights , and eat more !!!!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

eat more train heavy compounds and rest .


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

flinty90 said:


> Bobby you didnt say your height / or weight AGe ???
> 
> but your diet looks lacking in calories... and like Nick says dont worry about bicep curls lol.... get the big compounds form good with heavy weights , and eat more !!!!


Sorry just realised that and noticed all the replies!

I'm 24 yo, 6ft1. I always perform 4 sets aiming for around 8 reps and do four exercises per muscle group. 8 hours minimum sleep per night.

I just included my protein content in the above really, I do eat more than that but no more protein generally. Is it really low...even for someone with the physique of a beginner?

A few months back I increased my intake across the board by a fair bit as I was taking some supps but saw no gains (apart from fat)

Bicep curl was just the easiest example! I'm pretty sure I do do big compounds, is posting an example routine necessary?

Oh and funnily enough one of the things I was going to ask about was I'm now wanting to cut up a bit (after years of what I thought was bulking!), am I right in thinking I should introduce cardio post workout rather than on rest days?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> Sorry just realised that and noticed all the replies!
> 
> I'm 24 yo, 6ft1. I always perform 4 sets aiming for around 8 reps and do four exercises per muscle group. 8 hours minimum sleep per night.
> 
> ...


only if you want help ...


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

ewen said:


> only if you want help ...


I do 

My weakest groups are probably my biceps & back:

EZ Barbell curls

barbell lat rows

cross body hammer curls

pullups

reverse barbell curls

Lat pulldown

concentration curls

Cable Row

Cable bicep curls


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## GolfDelta (Jan 5, 2010)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> I do
> 
> My weakest groups are probably my biceps & back:
> 
> ...


No deadlifts?Far too many biceps exercises,also the way you've written it out makes it look as if you alternate between back and bi exercises each set,I hope that isn't the case.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

If you want to get massive do deads, chins and 2 sets of barbell curls on back and bicep day.

Do bench, dips and 2 sets of close grip benches on chest and tricep day.

Do squats, SLDL's and calf raises on leg day.

Don't bother with shoulders at this point. You'll get plenty of shoulder growth from chest and tricep day.

Eat more meat.


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

For your compounds drop the reps down to 3-5. Aim to get strong on the, first. As you get stronger you'll get bigger. So for example if you were doing bench press, I'd do your 3-4 sets but keep the reps low, then your next excercise could involve dumbbells for chest, incline press or flys, I'd leave the 8 reps to this.


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

@gduncan

I do more or less actually. Not good?

The cable curls are a bonus. I do deadlifts when available (not when working out from home), so not enough really


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## Trevor McDonald (Mar 30, 2010)

Squats and Deadlifts need to be a staple movement in your routine. Want to get big then lift big.


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Mey said:


> For your compounds drop the reps down to 3-5. Aim to get strong on the, first. As you get stronger you'll get bigger. So for example if you were doing bench press, I'd do your 3-4 sets but keep the reps low, then your next excercise could involve dumbbells for chest, incline press or flys, I'd leave the 8 reps to this.


Cheers for that. That's something else I was going to ask, I've always done my chest as you say (ending with cables) but recently read you're 'supposed' to do it the other way round, ending with the press etc. , Start with the cables to get the blood pumping. What are people's thoughts on this?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> I do
> 
> My weakest groups are probably my biceps & back:
> 
> ...


is that seriously all you do ?


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

scroll down the page just after half way is a simple but very effective routine aimed at building a good base to build from ... http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/


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## LunaticSamurai (May 19, 2009)

I don't know you but from the sounds of things you spend too much time analysing workouts and meals, rather than just eating and lifting.

Listen to the guys in here and as said, heavy compounds and eat big.

I watched a video of myself the other day in the garden and realised that not only is my back my strongest area, its by far my biggest too, compared to my front half which is weaker than my back, then i realised the kind of weight i lift when training back and i lift pretty big.

Drop the isolation moves and concentrate on the basic heavy lifts.


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## Goldigger (May 28, 2011)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> Cheers for that. That's something else I was going to ask, I've always done my chest as you say (ending with cables) but recently read you're 'supposed' to do it the other way round, ending with the press etc. , Start with the cables to get the blood pumping. What are people's thoughts on this?


If you wanna get big..do the compound movement first..cables won't get you big..


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## leeds_01 (Aug 6, 2008)

love the title of this thread

OP like golddigger says -

u wana be doing heavy compound movements - deads/squat/bench/overhead presses

**** loads of food and quality sleep


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

Imo strict form and good form are not the same thing


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## Fat (Jan 2, 2010)

Mey, who's the girl in your sig?


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## mikeod (Jan 20, 2012)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> I do
> 
> My weakest groups are probably my biceps & back:
> 
> ...


 where did you get this routine? it is the worst ive ever seen tbh:lol: get your compounds done first and one exercise for biceps at the end


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## Manners (Oct 16, 2007)

Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Military, Rows and Chins.

Eat lots more and don't be so strict - I'm an ectomorph so I can pretty much eat whatever I want within reason.

Quality sleep is very important go to bed and wake up the same time each day try to get 8-10 hours and don't drink too much before bed as it can interrupt sleep. I need to practise what I preach as I drink my Milk Protein before bed and always end up needing a p1ss.


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## Matt 1 (May 8, 2010)

Dont think its been mentioned..

increase your carbs mate!


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

bongon95 said:


> where did you get this routine? it is the worst ive ever seen tbh:lol: get your compounds done first and one exercise for biceps at the end


If I recall correctly it was originally something ripped of a T-nation article (also the source of that cables before bench presses thing which I questioned...mountain dog fitness) that I eventually chopped and changed over months and have apparently made a right balls of 



Manners said:


> Squat, Bench, Deadlift, Military, Rows and Chins.
> 
> Eat lots more and don't be so strict - I'm an ectomorph so I can pretty much eat whatever I want within reason.
> 
> Quality sleep is very important go to bed and wake up the same time each day try to get 8-10 hours and don't drink too much before bed as it can interrupt sleep. I need to practise what I preach as I drink my Milk Protein before bed and always end up needing a p1ss.


Ha , same!



LunaticSamurai said:


> I don't know you but from the sounds of things you spend too much time analysing workouts and meals, rather than just eating and lifting.
> 
> Listen to the guys in here and as said, heavy compounds and eat big.
> 
> ...


I understand why you'd say that I know this thread can come across whiney, it was half tongue in cheek half fed up. I was originally coming on to ask about form and the cables before bench press stuff I read, and it snowballed a bit from there


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Mingster said:


> If you want to get massive do deads, chins and 2 sets of barbell curls on back and bicep day.
> 
> Do bench, dips and 2 sets of close grip benches on chest and tricep day.
> 
> ...


Is your thinking here that I'm over training? Doing less exercises to build just seems counter productive to me, or would I be increasing the sets?


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> Is your thinking here that I'm over training? Doing less exercises to build just seems counter productive to me, or would I be increasing the sets?


Yes.

To get massive you will need to get strong also. You don't get many massive weaklings. You can lift the heaviest weights with the basic compound exercises. Focus each workout around one of the big 3 - squat, bench and deads. Get strong in all three of these and you will become massive. Nobody gets massive doing pulldowns, curls and cables. The more you do the 'big 3' the stronger you will get. The rest is just window dressing. Don't chop and change routines. Do these big compounds until you cam do 150kg bench and 250kg squat and deadlift and then you can start to worry about all the other stuff.


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> Is your thinking here that I'm over training? Doing less exercises to build just seems counter productive to me, or would I be increasing the sets?


Less exercises are better. This should be obvious. If you can do more then you can't be doing the earlier sets hard or heavy enough.

My back routine is as follows.

Warm up.

Deads x5 sets increasing weight each set.

1 set of weighted chins to failure.

1 set of Low Pully Rows to failure.

So I do 7 sets for back. The last set of deads and the chins and rows are done to maximum capacity. This means until I can't move the bar another millimetre. None of this pumping up rubbish. Proper, serious effort. If you can do more than this you are holding back and not going to failure. I'm around 250lbs at 5 11" and 50 years old lol. It works.


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Mingster said:


> Yes.
> 
> To get massive you will need to get strong also. You don't get many massive weaklings. You can lift the heaviest weights with the basic compound exercises. Focus each workout around one of the big 3 - squat, bench and deads. Get strong in all three of these and you will become massive. Nobody gets massive doing pulldowns, curls and cables. The more you do the 'big 3' the stronger you will get. The rest is just window dressing. Don't chop and change routines. Do these big compounds until you cam do 150kg bench and 250kg squat and deadlift and then you can start to worry about all the other stuff.


That makes a lot of sense, going to have a serious re-think of my routines! And as you say base them around the big stuff. Will post up when I get a sec, don't want to go on down the wrong road again for however many years.

Although is it possible to over train when you only do one body part a week? And I did work up over some time...although granted I was probably doing all the wrong exercises!


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## tonyc74 (Sep 2, 2009)

pick a programme and stick to it something like strong lifts or westside for skinny b4stards and eate more

more red meat eggs chicken more carbs potatoes rice etc

at your height id be increasing cals by 500 everytime your weight or your lifts dont go up but start at at least 2.5-3k cals ed


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Mingster said:


> Less exercises are better. This should be obvious. If you can do more then you can't be doing the earlier sets hard or heavy enough.
> 
> My back routine is as follows.
> 
> ...


To be honest I end up dropping weight as I go on throughout the session, which always felt backward. Agree with what you're saying, going to give it a serious effort!


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

BobbyNoMuscles said:


> That makes a lot of sense, going to have a serious re-think of my routines! And as you say base them around the big stuff. Will post up when I get a sec, don't want to go on down the wrong road again for however many years.
> 
> Although is it possible to over train when you only do one body part a week? And I did work up over some time...although granted I was probably doing all the wrong exercises!


If you eat and sleep well there should be no danger of overtraining.

For example.

Monday. Squat x5 then a hamstring exercise and a calf exercise.

Wednesday. Bench x5 then Dips and Close Grip Bench.

Friday. Deads x5 then Chins and Rows.

Do the benching in the middle as squats and deads involve legs. Build up the poundage you are lifting, increase diet to match your increasing size and rest as much as possible. This will create an environment for you to grow. Do no more than 2 sets for exercises 2 and 3, but make sure you do them hard. Any more exercises or sets and you will be holding back a little, maybe subconsciously, just to enable you to do the extra work.

Sprinters sprint 100metres not 800metres. You can only put in a maximum effort over short periods be it running or workout duration.


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Mingster said:


> If you eat and sleep well there should be no danger of overtraining.
> 
> For example.
> 
> ...


Cheers for that, going to give it a go and see if I see any improvement - really appreciated. Although I don't quite understand why someone can say "is that seriously all you do" but agree with doing a lot less? unless I was missing a bit of sarcasm, or it was in reference to the lack of deads?

Oh and I've always understood 'chins' to be an underhand grip and pull-ups an overhand grip. Is that correct? I'm questioning everything now!


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

tonyc74 said:


> pick a programme and stick to it something like strong lifts or westside for skinny b4stards and eate more
> 
> more red meat eggs chicken more carbs potatoes rice etc
> 
> at your height id be increasing cals by 500 everytime your weight or your lifts dont go up but start at at least 2.5-3k cals ed


Cheers for that, I'm not a skinny bastard so will go for strong lifts! Not sure my cals are too low as has been said or I would have thought I'd have lost a bit of fat if there was a deficit.

Agree with what you're saying about raising cals when the weights don't go up - amazingly I've never thought of that! cheers mate 

Oh and am I best doing cardio post workout rather than on rest days?


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## danp83 (Oct 16, 2011)

i used to do the exersises like push downs, cable cross overs etc and do between 8-12 reps thinking i would grow but im in week 2 of a push pull legs routine and working out every other day and im loving it and i never go above 8 reps, try keeping it to 5-6 reps. also if you train on your own dont be afraid to use machine, they keep your form strict plus you can go heavy without fear of dropping a bar on you. this is what i do and i know im only 2 weeks in but i love it

push- incline bench

chest press machine

machine shoulder press

dips leaning slightly forward

seated ez bar ext (not sure the correct name)

pull-bent over row

chins (i prefer palms facing in, shoulder width apart)

shrugs

deadlifts

preacher curl machine with wide grip

legs-squat

leg press

hamstring curls

calf raises on smith machine


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## BIG BUCK (Mar 26, 2010)

Mingster said:


> If you eat and sleep well there should be no danger of overtraining.
> 
> For example.
> 
> ...


Good post, listen to this man

Less is more, but make the less count


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Just considering re jigging everything to Back & Chest , bicep&tricep , legs& Shoulders , the pros are I can only get to the gym at the weekends at the moment so could make use of a bench and heavy deadlift bar there, then get away with the rest at home until I'm signed up to a gym nearer where I live. Also 'everywhere' seems to recommend doing bicep & tricep on the same day, although I did previously and didn't find it noticeably any better. Cons are I guess it upsets the deads, benches, squats order but since deads & bench would be done on the same day they'd get the same rest. Also, benches and deads are big actions, may be a bit more tired by the time I get round to the other.

Anyone see a problem with doing that?

Back feels good after all the deads but I've had no aches at all on my biceps after only doing a couple of sets on them - which wrongly or rightly I take as a bad sign. Is that a myth? I usually like the pains I get (not in a kinky way, honest)


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Oh and mingster, I know you said don't train my shoulders specifically but I always have done and enjoy it - and to be honest they're one of my best bits, would hate to lose them as well! 

If that's a seriously bad idea, do tell me though.


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

Let be honest everybody can benefit doing sports anykind regularly and follows a healthy style living.

Weight training is good for everybody but not all can get massive , ectomorphs and endomorphs are the most problematic groups,let me give you an example im 5f4" i cant never be a good basket player or a top swimmer(even that i like swimming very much and i swim all year around ) simply because my body is not good for that and other many sports but is good for bb,

so given that your training,nutrition etc are in place and you cant get massive after 5 years just enjoy your training ,why you need to be massive???


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

stavmangr said:


> Let be honest everybody can benefit doing sports anykind regularly and follows a healthy style living.
> 
> Weight training is good for everybody but not all can get massive , ectomorphs and endomorphs are the most problematic groups,let me give you an example im 5f4" i cant never be a good basket player or a top swimmer(even that i like swimming very much and i swim all year around ) simply because my body is not good for that and other many sports but is good for bb,
> 
> so given that your training,nutrition etc are in place and you cant get massive after 5 years just enjoy your training ,why you need to be massive???


Good post, cheers for your reply. I do enjoy training and will continue to. just would consider taking it less seriously. I'd also like to be bigger, I guess it's part of bodybuilding/life I see my weak bits and want to improve them. But by the looks of this thread, it would seem training (and possibly nutrition) are what's letting me down.

My Dad's trained most of his life (not seriously at all), he's not massive but at least his arms & back look in proportion to his body!

I don't want to be looking for an excuse or giving up and saying 'I'm a hard gainer' or whatever I want to build my body!


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

Just getting on with the stronglifts5x5 program as written, will report back later. Once I've (fingers crossed) built up a bit more strength I'll take on more of the advice here as to creating a sound routine.

Although I've always done bench presses, pullups etc. I think my lack of focus on heavy compounds or something is shining through already. When benching, towards the end of the final set my elbows are trying to give out, bit painful - it feels like the push from my chest and arms could continue but the elbows are real weak points.

Is there much I can do aobut this, or anyone had any similar experiences?

cheers for all the help.


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## MattGriff (Aug 21, 2012)

OP - stop asking so many questions - you are obviously putting more effort into reading crap on the internet and trying to analyze things based on what you know - WHICH ISN'T ****ING WORKING!!!

I train heavy 3 x per week and basically do 2-3 big movements, which includes two squat sessions. That is all.

I am over 21stone!!

The aim is to stimulate the muscle not annihilate it - if you keep doing what you have been doing then you will remain the same.

I guarantee if you man the **** up and actually squat hard and heavy for 5 x 5 you will need nothing else for your legs, I highly doubt you know what intensity even is.

Now go and squat hard and heavy and come back once you know what it is like to pass out when you try to walk after, or throw up in a bucket, or have blood vessels in your eyes burst from the strain.

Training should always be a simple as possible, simple does not mean easy - the hard work you have to provide!


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## BobbyNoMuscles (Mar 30, 2010)

MattGriff said:


> OP - stop asking so many questions - you are obviously putting more effort into reading crap on the internet and trying to analyze things based on what you know - WHICH ISN'T ****ING WORKING!!!
> 
> I train heavy 3 x per week and basically do 2-3 big movements, which includes two squat sessions. That is all.
> 
> ...


Hi

You're right I don't know what intensity is, I'm no a professional lifter and I've never claimed to be an expert hence asking for help. I have no problem with people asking for help, in fact I like to help people on subjects within my expertise. I've never spilt blood or puked in the gym, I have had to run to the blokes on occasion and after my workout today for instance I staggered out taking neil armstrong strides completely forgetting to get my stuff out the changing room, my back felt like I had wings and I stalled my car because I couldn't control the clutch properly - again wrongly or rightly I like this feeling but I can't say I've had anything much worse.

I don't want to keep doing what I'm doing (wrong) so I'm asking for advice on various aspects of it , which actually seems to be in agreement with part of your comments above (just not the asking questions on the internet bit)

Anyway cheers for your response (I know I'm a bit on the defensive there, but genuinely appreciate it) as it helps back up everything everyone else has said and for what it's worth your avatar confirms, so I know I'm working towards the right thing.


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## Musclegirl (May 8, 2012)

Try the 5x5 workout or German Volume Training. 5x5 is great for getting good strength gains on big compound lifts, once you get those in place, you can get bigger elsewhere.

I usually smash one or 2 bodyparts per session then have a day of squats and deads. Awesome


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## Porkchop (May 24, 2012)

+1 on the German volume training. It really stimulates growth.

IMHO OP, you are doing the right thing in asking questions and trying to refine your approach. Don't listen to those who just tell you to man the f**k up, you need to know what you're doing wrong, what you need to do right, and the only way you'll get that information is by asking questions. Well done for having the balls to put yourself out there.


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