# Today I tried a HIT chest workout



## pariah (May 8, 2008)

Straight from the Mentzer book. Usually I'm like everyone else and do volume training. I consider myself to be a "hard worker outter" if you get me. So i thought Id give HIT a try on my chest and arms ( biceps ) as per one of Mikes workouts.

Started with 2 light warm up sets of incline flys. Then str8 to a heavy set of 30kg flys til failure, then str8 to a smith machine loaded with only 30kg a side. Enough I felt to allow me to do 8 strict reps very very slow but i suspected it would get very hard around rep 5 which indeed it did.

I then went and immediately ( minus time to setup as I wasnt all that prepared, but next time I will be ) did 2 sets of weighted dips both with a 25kg plate on myself. 1 set to 8, 2nd set to failure, quite slow also and squeezing at the peak. I can report that I do indeed have a very deep DOM feeling already, and I do feel i have adequately stimualted my chest muscles enough.

Surprisingly, this workout took about 10-15 mins.

Biceps included 1 set of very slow warmup set, followed by 2 sets of barbell curls. Weight for these 2 sets was surprising light as I was unsure of how this would feel. I have pretty decent arms but I thought Id be cautious and go light.

1st set was only 10kg a side, with very slow reps holding for about 2-3 secs on peak contraction and i can say this was tough around rep 8 of 12. I took a short break, added another 5kg aside and had a spotter force some reps near the end, managing 8 reps intotal very slow, deliberate and holding the static each peak contraction for a few seconds, lowering very slowly.

Immediately following this I did 2 sets of 85kg underhand pulldowns on a lat machine with a spotter forcing 2-3 reps in the 2nd set. How do I feel about this method? Im quite surprised to say I can feel Ive stimulated my biceps adequately for growth. I have the same hard pump still 4 hours later in my arms, they still feel sore and my chest is definately going to be sore tomorrow.

Now I know I need to tweak this and get it closer to the true HIT style of training but i feel coupled with a cycle this might be something worth looking at, at least for me. Im going to give it ago.

Overall, quite pleased about it. Bicep workout took 10-15mins also.

P.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Yes that is the classic MM work out for chest and biceps.

I am a massive fan of this sort of training BUT in his last few years his advice only pertained to guys who did not eat properly and were not bbs for example a business man who is on the go 24/7 will not recover from more than the absalute minimum this is where the MM routines come in.

Keep your mind open and most importantly take away the notion that in one set of 100% effort more gains can be achieved than 10 sets of 50% effort.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2009)

Good to hear bro, this is something I have been looking at for a while and will give it a go in the future. If you decide to stick to it let us know how it works for you.


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## pariah (May 8, 2008)

I'm going to trial this on my next cycle. Also, Im reading that MM trained his chest and biceps twice weekly as follows.



> Chest and Back Routines
> 
> I work my back and chest on separate days, the chest on Monday and Thursday, along with triceps and legs; and the back
> 
> ...


I thought this goes against HIT training? Any who, ill investigate this once before i start medicating. Ill be experimenting for myself and ill post what i think in the coming weeks.

Cheers

P.


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## marso (May 31, 2006)

Pariah, don't get caught up in the semanatics of what HIT is, HIT can basically be defined as low volume and infrequent workouts, the above workout you posted fits that critera..

Later, Mentzer revised his workouts with much less volume and frequency but the basics are the same..

As a life long HIT trainee, there is much I agree with on what Mentzer writes and much I disagree with....

I did that routine way back when I was 21 and on my first proper cycle and grew like a weed, even the owner of the gym back then asked me what i was doing and what I was on...if only I could still grow that fast now!!


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## pariah (May 8, 2008)

You still train this way Marso? Reading MM book, if growth plateaus, techniques like Omni-contraction, rest pause etc...Im sure you know the score should be employed.

Apparently MM himself stopped growing using HIT and had to alter his workouts in the end too ( it says here ). But I get your message, less semantics, keep the core philosophy rockin.


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## marso (May 31, 2006)

pariah said:


> You still train this way Marso? Reading MM book, if growth plateaus, techniques like Omni-contraction, rest pause etc...Im sure you know the score should be employed.
> 
> Apparently MM himself stopped growing using HIT and had to alter his workouts in the end too ( it says here ). But I get your message, less semantics, keep the core philosophy rockin.


Yes I still train using high intensity principles, and at present I'm doing full body workouts 2-3 times per week. I also use the superslow method (10 seconds up and 10 seconds down) and train according to my tul (time under load) for me this is approx 45-90 seconds, as an advanced trainee its more prudent to count progress in terms of seconds than reps..provinding all factors remain constant.

The problem I have with mentzers philosophy is that he fails to accept that intensity (as it relates to effort) can and should be regulated just the same as frequency and volume, you can have too much of a good thing...

While such teqniques as omni sets have there place, they should only be used a shock tatic and a way of increasing overall workout demands, I also believe in short periods of over reaching were by one increases the frequency or volume for a brief period, as with any method they have a limited application and eventually which reach a point of diminshing returns...depsite what mentzer says, progress is not linear and the HIT'er who tries to progress every workout is on the treadmill to frustration....


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## pariah (May 8, 2008)

So how do you look in terms of size? Do you feel that you're bigger than you could be if you volume trained, taking for granted that your diet is constant?


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## marso (May 31, 2006)

How do I look is only relative to me, in that to some "i'm a big lad" at about 16 odd stone to others I'm not that big based on there perception of what is "big"...

So in effect based on my training, genetics, diet and gear useage I'm about as big as I'm gonna get, I could prob get bigger If I battered the gear, but A: I can't afford it and B: I don't too at this stage in my life.

Define "volume trained" anything more than 1 set could be defined as volume, this is a typical HIT thinking in that those that take up HIT, get caught up in the euphoria of it all and embark on some sort of anti volume crusade,...hence they then get labelled as dogmatic..

As I previoulsy stated the body is in a constant state of flux and for the advanced trainee, there has to be periods of maintaince and periods of over reaching but even this upto a point, leads to diminishing returns...


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## pariah (May 8, 2008)

Thanks Marso. Interesting stuff.


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## dingosteve (Apr 26, 2009)

will look into HIT sounds interesting stuff as im lookin for a way to decrease my workout times


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## dingosteve (Apr 26, 2009)

Despite the fact i'm supposed to be taking a week off i had to try HIT today, so i tried ez bar curls at 30kg 8 seconds up 8 seconds down, pure agony set of 8 is all i could manage, but i felt i could do another set this time got to 5 reps then another but got to 7 reps, odd i know but there you have it. Then onto some standing alternate dumb bell curls dropped weight from 20kg to 16kg, once again same 8 second up 8 second down done 3 sets of that.

So how do i feel ? i'm not sure i don't have the pump feel of volume but muscle feels like its been worked, but at 8 and 5 reps i'm wondering if i'm bordering on strength training rather than mass building. Also after them two exercises i couldn't manage another exercise as my biceps felt shot.

done my abdominal exercises for 20 mins then threw up, never happened before, im thinking internal pressure of doing reps slow instead of ballistically caused that.

So one hour later i feel ok arms only slightly pumped but feel used, which is the reverse of what they feel after my volume training of 12 reps , 4 sets 3 exercises.

Maybe il take the focus of slowin my reps down to feel the muscle working and incorporate it into my volume training.


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## Nytol (Jul 16, 2005)

I agree with much of the HIT stuff, and have always used it, (more like Dorian's training than MM's Book), but disagree with the slow tempo stuff, and I think studies have shown it to be inferior too?

Not a huge fan of the Pre Exhaust either.


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## marso (May 31, 2006)

dingosteve said:


> Despite the fact i'm supposed to be taking a week off i had to try HIT today, so i tried ez bar curls at 30kg 8 seconds up 8 seconds down, pure agony set of 8 is all i could manage,


Without wishing to sound disrespectful this is a classic case of someone's perception of what they believe HIT to be. 8/8 done for 8 reps comes out @ 128 seconds of load, which is far too long, its generally advised that TUL (time under loads) of 45-90 seconds are best for hypertrophy and strength, 128 seconds is actually bordering on aerobics...



> but i felt i could do another set this time got to 5 reps then another but got to 7 reps, odd i know but there you have it.


You should feel like you can do another set, HIT does not mean killing yourself, the fact you got 7 reps could indicate a high percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers and or a low neurological effciency..amongst other things..



> Then onto some standing alternate dumb bell curls dropped weight from 20kg to 16kg, once again same 8 second up 8 second down done 3 sets of that.
> 
> So how do i feel ? i'm not sure i don't have the pump feel of volume but muscle feels like its been worked, but at 8 and 5 reps i'm wondering if i'm bordering on strength training rather than mass building.


As I've stated previously reps are in fact irrelevant they only serve as means of recording of what transpired, however it is the actual time the muscles spend under load which is of more importance, if we take for example a typcial rep cadence of 1/1 (which is closer to what most people use) a set or 6 reps comes out a 12 seconds of load, this is too short in terms of hypertrophy and thus most of the gains come in the form of neurological adaptation, ie: you get stronger but not bigger...

However a set of 3 reps done 10/10 comes out at 60 seconds which falls within the accepted guidelines for hypertophy...so although the rep count is lower the time the muscles spend under load is significantly longer...



> Also after them two exercises i couldn't manage another exercise as my biceps felt shot.
> 
> done my abdominal exercises for 20 mins then threw up, never happened before, im thinking internal pressure of doing reps slow instead of ballistic ally caused that.


 It could well be that you are not used to training at that level of intensity which caused the nauesau..



> So one hour later i feel ok arms only slightly pumped but feel used, which is the reverse of what they feel after my volume training of 12 reps , 4 sets 3 exercises.
> 
> Maybe il take the focus of slowin my reps down to feel the muscle working and incorporate it into my volume training.


As with anything training using a slower cadence requires correct teaching teqniques , disciplne and practise...one workout is not enough to evaluate the merits of such training...

Here is a link to a properly performed slow rep workout...read the side bar before watching too...they ONLY use slow reps at this facility..

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and another by my good friend Doug Holland at his own slow training facility..






Nytol, there is a large amount of evidence which supports slow cadence training..

But as I stated its not for everyone and each to his own....


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