# Grip and deadlift



## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

Hi,

I am just getting back into training after a year out due to injury, that was probably exacerbated by using straps on the deadlift and pulling my neck/trap.

My question is how do i get a better deadlift when my limiting factor is my grip/hand size? Should I try to always dead without straps or use straps and do some specific grip work, if so what?

thanks in advance


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Yes!

Only time id ever wear straps is for a very long set of heavy reps, or downset....you want grip to get better? try hook grip or use under/over technique....on a good bar....grip shouldn't be an issue, or use a bit of chalk for top sets.


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

what's a hook grip? I can't do an over/under grip as i can't rotate my hands far enough round. Guess i need to slowly work the weights up then I guess.. if i am doing deads once a week, what else could i do as a supplementary exercise for the off days?


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## mozzwigan (Apr 20, 2012)

Rykard said:


> what's a hook grip? I can't do an over/under grip as i can't rotate my hands far enough round. Guess i need to slowly work the weights up then I guess.. if i am doing deads once a week, what else could i do as a supplementary exercise for the off days?


it hurts like **** lol


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## 2004mark (Oct 26, 2013)

mozzwigan said:


> it hurts like **** lol


I gave up on it after trying in once. I can see you ending up with some weirdly deformed thumbs in later life lol tbh though it doesn't help improving your raw grip strength anyway.

I actually try to do the same thing but with my thumb on the other side of fingers, not as effective but squashing your two fingers into the bar does help to stop the bar rolling out so much.


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

ah i see lol


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## mozzwigan (Apr 20, 2012)

Rykard said:


> ah i see lol


i tried it just once lol did not like it, i found it really hard to do it I have pretty small hands i just use liquid chalk now with alternate grip


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

My grip is horrendous and am trying to work on it myself, first thing l have done is ditched the gloves.


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## ashmo (Jul 1, 2011)

Straps.


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## R20B (Apr 18, 2012)

I do the over/under grip with chalk and I have no issues with grip as of yet! Want to do this for as long as possible without straps


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## mozzwigan (Apr 20, 2012)

R20B said:


> I do the over/under grip with chalk and I have no issues with grip as of yet! Want to do this for as long as possible without straps


me 2, but when repping for a max of 10 which is now 200kg for me, my calluses take a real fcuking beating! and crimple up haha


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

I have small hands too :-( not used gloves as they tend to bunch at the base of my fingers, can't do the alternate grip so I guess i will have to persevere and find some chalk.

what other exercises do you recommend?


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## jord222 (Sep 13, 2012)

Liquid chalk is what i use now instead of straps, also plate pinches to improve grip and static bar holding, working for me


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

i have small hands , the best thing i did to build grip was to deadlift double overhand , ive pulled 220 using this grip and it takes time to build however grip is one of the faster muscle groups to build stronger quicker .


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## Bish83 (Nov 18, 2009)

Hows leaving 1-2 reps in the tank without grinding the rep do?


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

IMO, best suggestion is to make your grip stronger. On your warmup sets use a double overhand grip until you fail with the grip, then switch back to a mixed grip.

If you access to thick bars then even better!

Bleh didn't see that Ewen had already suggested it


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

big pete said:


> IMO, best suggestion is to make your grip stronger. On your warmup sets use a double overhand grip until you fail with the grip, then switch back to a mixed grip.
> 
> If you access to thick bars then even better!


axles are brilliant or fat grips , cheap version is a scaffold pole :lol:


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

ewen said:


> axles are brilliant or fat grips , cheap version is a scaffold pole :lol:


Completely agree, it's so easy to suggest using straps to get around a problem. If you cure a problem then it isn't a problem anymore! Sure it takes a little longer, but how impressive I it to have some jacked forearms poking through clothing,lol


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## DiscSupps (Oct 26, 2012)

Rykard said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am just getting back into training after a year out due to injury, that was probably exacerbated by using straps on the deadlift and pulling my neck/trap.
> 
> ...


Personally I have never used straps and I deadlift a good weight. Phil Learney doesn't use straps and I have seen videos of him deadlifting 300kg. I would only use straps when your grip has completely failed and there is still strength in your back  Scott


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

big pete said:


> Completely agree, it's so easy to suggest using straps to get around a problem. If you cure a problem then it isn't a problem anymore! Sure it takes a little longer, but how impressive I it to have some jacked forearms poking through clothing,lol


you do some strongman dont you ? sure ive seen you at a comp or something before ?


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2014)

Fat Gripz are brilliant helped my grip no end


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

think the warehouse has some thick bars, i'll look at those... as well as getting some chalk.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

add les wiltshire on facebook he sells chalk and grip stuff iirc


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

ewen said:


> you do some strongman dont you ? sure ive seen you at a comp or something before ?


I used to, loved it but stopped a few years ago. Had a few injuries and, well, I just had to grow up and earn a living. Hopefully gonna try a comp this year


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

big pete said:


> I used to, loved it but stopped a few years ago. Had a few injuries and, well, I just had to grow up and earn a living. Hopefully gonna try a comp this year


Whats your lifts like ?


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## Fishheadsoup (Apr 15, 2013)

Fat gripz..can't sing there praise enough. Used them for a few years and when I deadlift without them my grip is insanely better than it was


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## big pete (Mar 23, 2004)

ewen said:


> Whats your lifts like ?


Well, 7 years ago, it was 212.5k bench, 340k dead and a 360k squat. Nowadays it's closer to 140k bench, 250k dead and about 180k squat. It's all guesswork, I haven't stepped in a gym in 6 months! Just ticking over in the barn.

I started about the same time as Laurence Shahlei, he beat me in 1 comp, I beat him in another. Would be nice to try a "best of 3" lol


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

big pete said:


> Well, 7 years ago, it was 212.5k bench, 340k dead and a 360k squat. Nowadays it's closer to 140k bench, 250k dead and about 180k squat. It's all guesswork, I haven't stepped in a gym in 6 months! Just ticking over in the barn.
> 
> I started about the same time as Laurence Shahlei, he beat me in 1 comp, I beat him in another. Would be nice to try a "best of 3" lol


Good numbers , soon get them back up .


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

sorted gto a couple of bits of les.


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## jord222 (Sep 13, 2012)

ewen said:


> axles are brilliant or fat grips , cheap version is a scaffold pole :lol:


What lifts is it best to use fat grips with to improve grip mate? Got some but not used them yet


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

jord222 said:


> What lifts is it best to use fat grips with to improve grip mate? Got some but not used them yet


Deadlift mate .


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## jord222 (Sep 13, 2012)

ewen said:


> Deadlift mate .


Cool, cheers mate, just sope people say to use them on other things too like bicep curls etc, wasnt sure if there was any point or not


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

jord222 said:


> Cool, cheers mate, just sope people say to use them on other things too like bicep curls etc, wasnt sure if there was any point or not


You can use them on any exercise but I'd use them only on deads .


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## Boshlop (Apr 1, 2012)

using liquid chalk all you can has done my grip wonders since it stopped the slipping and focused on the grip. one place i train has a technogym smith, so nice thick rounded bars instead of square, under and over hand hanging grips or thick bar pull ups on there has helped my get a fair bit more grip as well


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## theBEAST2002 (Oct 16, 2011)

Use nothing until your grip is giving way then use straps.

On a seperate day work your grip, farmers carry, plate pinch and using fat grips with curls all helped mine. My forearms are still tiny. in comparison to my upper arm.


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## tns (Dec 24, 2013)

Rykard said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am just getting back into training after a year out due to injury, that was probably exacerbated by using straps on the deadlift and pulling my neck/trap.
> 
> ...


Grip power will make you deadlift Tons more.

Try some pull ups with your fingers. Check some climbers training. they got dam best grip power, hulk like. seriously


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## ILoveHeavyMetal (Jan 9, 2014)

Chalk is a simple solution. Fat Grips work well, hard to start with though! I will use straps only when my grip fails.

I find dead hangs for as long as possible can help, aswell as plate pinches and heavy farmers walks.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

here's the best solution...you want a better grip...fukin deadlift more, then deadlift some more again....not rocket science, plus make sure its on a decent bar, if you need chalk and straps for anything under 200kg you have women's hands lol


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2014)

I got some Gasp straps for xmas, they're that thick they may as well be fat gripz!!


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## jonnym4 (May 8, 2011)

Deadlifts for a lot of volume and DB rows with fat grips for 20 reps


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

I have ridiculously small hands and it's limiting my deadlifts massively... My forearms are pretty big but my grip is terrible.. The most i can do is 120kg x 10, and after the sets done I can tell I've got way more in my back.. Chalk has helped but not massively.. What would be the downside of using straps? OK my grip isn't gonna improve but after a year or so of lifting the same weight I don't think it's going to anyway so I've got nothing to lose surely?


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

L11 said:


> I have ridiculously small hands and it's limiting my deadlifts massively... My forearms are pretty big but my grip is terrible.. The most i can do is 120kg x 10, and after the sets done I can tell I've got way more in my back.. Chalk has helped but not massively.. What would be the downside of using straps? OK my grip isn't gonna improve but after a year or so of lifting the same weight I don't think it's going to anyway so I've got nothing to lose surely?


straps for reps are fine imo......for very heavy singles, double and triples not imo.....that is where you build the grip from........ps, unless back rounded to **** deadlift is mostly hams and glutes not really back, if you wanna hit back more directly then pull from blocks or the rack.


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## tomo8 (May 29, 2010)

L11 said:


> I have ridiculously small hands and it's limiting my deadlifts massively... My forearms are pretty big but my grip is terrible.. The most i can do is 120kg x 10, and after the sets done I can tell I've got way more in my back.. Chalk has helped but not massively.. What would be the downside of using straps? OK my grip isn't gonna improve but after a year or so of lifting the same weight I don't think it's going to anyway so I've got nothing to lose surely?


Maybe a stupid question, have you tried over under grip? Should be able to lift more that way.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Jim78 said:


> straps for reps are fine imo......for very heavy singles, double and triples not imo.....that is where you build the grip from........ps, unless back rounded to **** deadlift is mostly hams and glutes not really back, if you wanna hit back more directly then pull from blocks or the rack.


I only feel it in my hams if I do it straight legged



tomo8 said:


> Maybe a stupid question, have you tried over under grip? Should be able to lift more that way.


Yea I can lift way more that way but I'm worried about muscle imbalances and I cant switch hands (I can't do an underhand grip with my left hand, no idea why)


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## tikkajohn (Dec 6, 2012)

L11 said:


> I only feel it in my hams if I do it straight legged
> 
> Yea I can lift way more that way but I'm worried about muscle imbalances and I cant switch hands (I can't do an underhand grip with my left hand, no idea why)


I wouldn't worry about the imbalance from under over doubt you would notice anything anyway, or just use straps.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

L11 said:


> I only feel it in my hams if I do it straight legged
> 
> Yea I can lift way more that way but I'm worried about muscle imbalances and I cant switch hands (I can't do an underhand grip with my left hand, no idea why)


Not deadlifting properly then, you should be pushing through heels at the start to get glutes and hams to pull the weight off the floor while locking the lats and core crazy tight to keep the body stiff throughout...then pushing hips through when bar reaches knee level and above to lockout......be suprised how much more you can pull.

And no imbalance as like i said your arms are just attachments to the bar nothing more nothing less, pulling with arms leads to bicep tears with maximal weight.


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

Do you think it would help my lifts to train with the local PWC for a while?


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## Linc06 (Jun 23, 2013)

Jim78 said:


> here's the best solution...you want a better grip...fukin deadlift more, then deadlift some more again....not rocket science, plus make sure its on a decent bar, if you need chalk and straps for anything under 200kg you have women's hands lol


I'm a borderline girl then lol as I can dead lift 200 strap free (max is 240). I try to only use straps when my grip gives way. I also use a grip machine we have in the gym, you can load with plates then pull towards you and hold


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## andyhuggins (Nov 21, 2008)

andyhuggins said:


> Do you think it would help my lifts to train with the local PWC for a while?


 @Jim78


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

andyhuggins said:


> Do you think it would help my lifts to train with the local PWC for a while?


PWC?


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Chalk!

My grip used to fail at 180, added chalk in and can comfortably pull 250kg with no issues with grip.


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## JR8908 (Aug 17, 2012)

If your not a powerlifter, using straps is fine for your top sets whether they be for reps or for heavy singles. To Improve grip deadlift all warm up sets and work sets without straps until you reach a weight where you need to use them, then put them on.

Also do all upper back work without using straps, this helps massively I think. I have a very strong grip and I can't go mixed grip due to a bicep tweak, and I wouldn't be able to get anywhere near top end deadlift weight without straps.


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## solidcecil (Mar 8, 2012)

I started using straps for all back exercises and noticed my forearms shrunk.

I now only use then for over 240 on deadlifts.


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## funkdocta (May 29, 2013)

straps... or just keep practising and strengthen your grip. My hands are ****ed from not using gloves or straps. Got segs on my segs 

Going to get a new pair of gloves or some straps i reckon.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Jim78 said:


> Not deadlifting properly then, you should be pushing through heels at the start to get glutes and hams to pull the weight off the floor while locking the lats and core crazy tight to keep the body stiff throughout...then pushing hips through when bar reaches knee level and above to lockout......be suprised how much more you can pull.
> 
> And no imbalance as like i said your arms are just attachments to the bar nothing more nothing less, pulling with arms leads to bicep tears with maximal weight.


http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/get_it_right_the_deadlift

I've read many a deadlift article but this one is probably the most concise.



> I define the agonist as the most important muscle in the exercise, and the one receiving the strongest training stimulus. In the deadlift, the agonists are the erectors; not the glutes, not the hamstrings, not the quads. Those other muscles are all important, but they're not the agonist.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

andyhuggins said:


> @Jim78


depends bud, if were talking about moving max weights then the PL guys will teach you (hopefully) the proper way to do it technique wise.....if for muscle recruitment its 50-50.....when a powerlifter benches he'll use more tris and lats and legs than chest...so from that perspective....one thing u seldom see is a seasoned pl'er with small chest, legs and back though.....

It will deffo help to get your numbers up though mate, I find there are already some super strong bodybuilding lads out there who if they dialled technique in could be very promising lifters.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

L11 said:


> http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/get_it_right_the_deadlift
> 
> I've read many a deadlift article but this one is probably the most concise.


LoL not sure what your point is tbh....you still technique wise start a deadlift via leg force from the rear ie hams, glutes etc, yes erectors are important, more so for keeping back tight and straight, you said u didnt feel it in the hams, and i said if that's the case then your technique is ****e and your not pulling properly....that still stands.

Read the synergist section, it says it all there and tbh contradicts itself, quads, glutes and hams.....all contribute to the deadlift, if u pull off the floor with your back and no legs in the movement your cheating yourself out of lifting proper weight/growth and **** technique due to lower back stress.

The article is just that anyway....an article, written by someone Ive not actually heard of.

You could find an article saying deadlifting with a hard-on is beneficial if you looked hard enough, does it mean its right?


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

Rykard said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am just getting back into training after a year out due to injury, that was probably exacerbated by using straps on the deadlift and pulling my neck/trap.
> 
> ...


IMO unless a powerlifter it's most effective for someone with a weak grip to remove the grip issue altogether from dead's by using straps and then focus on specific grip work separately - all the time that grip is weaker than back strength then you simply won't get maximal results from the deadlift IMO, and that is such a huge miss out. Far better to use the exercise to it's maximum. I also do not rate the alternative grips - hook grips are uncomfortable and cause a distraction, and the ever so popular mixed grip IMO explains the underlying susceptibility behind 70% of bicep tears.


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## L11 (Jan 21, 2011)

Jim78 said:


> LoL not sure what your point is tbh....you still technique wise start a deadlift via leg force from the rear ie hams, glutes etc, yes erectors are important, more so for keeping back tight and straight, you said u didnt feel it in the hams, and i said if that's the case then your technique is ****e and your not pulling properly....that still stands.
> 
> Read the synergist section, it says it all there and tbh contradicts itself, quads, glutes and hams.....all contribute to the deadlift, if u pull off the floor with your back and no legs in the movement your cheating yourself out of lifting proper weight/growth and **** technique due to lower back stress.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you really didn't understand my point or whether you're being difficult, but considering you decided to bring up hard ons in a thread about deadlifting I'll assume it's the latter...

Your original point was



> ps, unless back rounded to **** deadlift is mostly hams and glutes not really back,


I found an article that suggested that this was incorrect. If you can find one that suggests anything to the contrary, I'd gladly read it.

Since you seem to be a pedant it's probably worth me changing my statement about not feeling it in my hams: "When performing a regular deadlift, the main emphasis is on my back, as opposed to my hams. It is only when doing straight legged deadlifts that this emphasis changes"


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## tikkajohn (Dec 6, 2012)

I never feel my hamstrings as such on a Deadlift,

However I had a small tear I'm my hamstring which I didn't even feel squatting ATG but when I started deadlifting it was like someone put a knife on the back of my leg.

What I'm saying is just because you don't feel them doesn't mean there not working.


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

I have small hands but grip has never been an issue.

First look at where you grab the bar.

You need to grab the bar straight down from where your arms connect into the shoulder.

Wider than this and the grip will be weaker.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

ConP said:


> I have small hands but grip has never been an issue.
> 
> First look at where you grab the bar.
> 
> ...


If anyone knows how to deadlift its this man tbh!


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

L11 said:


> I'm not sure if you really didn't understand my point or whether you're being difficult, but considering you decided to bring up hard ons in a thread about deadlifting I'll assume it's the latter...
> 
> Your original point was
> 
> ...


and im emphasising that if you feel it most in your back and not hams and glutes your technique is crap, and maybe why you lift what you do......whilst you read articles Il just get on with training and lifting if its all the same, id advise you to maybe do the same, train more and not analyse everything.


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

ConP said:


> I have small hands but grip has never been an issue.
> 
> First look at where you grab the bar.
> 
> ...


would that be arms inside or outside of the legs?


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## ConP (Aug 18, 2013)

Rykard said:


> would that be arms inside or outside of the legs?


Just outside.

When doing reps you should develop friction burns from forearms rubbing off the legs.


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

ConP said:


> Just outside.
> 
> When doing reps you should develop friction burns from forearms rubbing off the legs.


Yep grazed arms and shins! Sign of a good session!


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## mozzwigan (Apr 20, 2012)

Milky said:


> My grip is horrendous and am trying to work on it myself, first thing l have done is ditched the gloves.


mate i thought mine was until i slapped loads of liquid chalk on!


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## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

Just a note on fat gripz, I couldnt afford them as im from yorkshire, but... some pipe lagging from b and q has a similar effect and is less than a quid for a meter of it


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

Dave 0511 said:


> Just a note on fat gripz, I couldnt afford them as im from yorkshire, but... some pipe lagging from b and q has a similar effect and is less than a quid for a meter of it


and i have a load of that in my garage - good tip :thumbup1:


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## inmotion (Nov 6, 2013)

For years I struggled with my grip on deadlifts, it was definitely a limiting factor just like you. However I have found that since using chalk with a hook grip, I don't even have to think about grip, ever. I find that with straps, you tend to really on them and they can become a distraction, but chalk gives you similar benefits while also increasing grip strength!


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## DanielScrilla (Jul 8, 2012)

Liquid chalk my protein 6.99 very good. Thank me later


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## inmotion (Nov 6, 2013)

DanielScrilla said:


> Liquid chalk my protein 6.99 very good. Thank me later


Or if your gym doesn't mind you making a mess you can pick up a chalk ball off Ebay for less than £2!


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## tikkajohn (Dec 6, 2012)

I use one of the freezer bags with the sealable top, for my chalk.

Doesn't make a mess at all


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

i'm thinking lock n lock or ice cream container


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## inmotion (Nov 6, 2013)

Ice cream container works well, you can chalk up your hands over the container minimising mess.


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## Rykard (Dec 18, 2007)

tlowemm said:


> Ice cream container works well, you can chalk up your hands over the container minimising mess.


and not wasting chalk...


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