# Routine change suggestions



## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I've been doing a 3 day split, each body part once a week, for the last 4months, I'm gonna have a weeks break in a few weeks and I'm looking at a different routine when I start back up.

Would it be a good time to start working each body part twice a week? Or any other suggestions to change training up a bit to continue gains?


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

What's your weight etc?


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Im too lazy to.check your journal 

Do 5x5 like me!!!!


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm 6'2, 13stone 4pounds, goals are purely physical development


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Tbh I've heard 5x5 isn't the best for my goals? Could be wrong as never tried it long term


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Check out push pull legs. Maybe you'll like that. 5x5 is great though


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I'll have a look into both those routines, I wanna run this next one till the end of the year and hopefully pack on as much muscle/bulk as poss then see where I am and maybe start cutting some fat.

Im a bit limited to what routines I do as I workout at home but do wanna change it up a bit, that's why I was thinking possibly hitting each body part twice a week??


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

faultline said:


> Tbh I've heard 5x5 isn't the best for my goals? Could be wrong as never tried it long term


you are wrong , build a big mass filled frame then sculpt it .

you cant decorate a house until you build the house .


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok so would 5x5 be the best thing to build the big frame then?

If its all about damaging the muscle so it can repair then does it matter what reps/sets you do?

I'm genuinely interested to know the answer to this


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

5x5 is.all you need mate. BIG HEAVY.COMPOUNDS is all you need. What im doing is bang on for gaining size


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

faultline said:


> Ok so would 5x5 be the best thing to build the big frame then?
> 
> If its all about damaging the muscle so it can repair then does it matter what reps/sets you do?
> 
> I'm genuinely interested to know the answer to this


low reps/sets forces the muscles to adapt and overcome however they never will providing you have progressive overload , the idea for strength training to add mass is the fibers become reinforced like bunkers so imagine a single concrete wall then another concrete wall built next to it and so on , you now have a single wall that is 10 x thicker than started .

if you did higher reps/sets all your doing is flushing blood into the muscle to expand creating a bigger void and slowly over time this void gets bigger but strength training will see you make bigger gains quicker then you set about flushing the muscle mass full of blood to expand further .

as for damaging the muscle no thats wrong becasue you need to stimulate growth so a less is more principle applies .

5 keys to getting big .

muscular stimulation

nutrition

rest

hard work

and most important consistency .

start on something like stronglifts 5x5 , yes it looks a very simple routine but it provides stimulation .


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Well some interesting comments, thanks for the feedback.

I'm aiming to be a bodybuilder, but sounds like 2 completely different opinions on how to achieve this, but I'm always willing to listen n learn so keep the opinions coming !


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## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

faultline said:


> I'm aiming to be a bodybuilder, but sounds like 2 completely different opinions on how to achieve this, but I'm always willing to listen n learn so keep the opinions coming !


They are not really that different. Bodybuilders often do very basic strength training, because as Ewen says, you need to build the house first.

Powerlifters train slightly differently, because they want to improve their strength to weight ratio (so they can lift the heaviest weight possible whilst staying in their weight class), so won't tend to do the classic 'hypertrophy' style routines which try to maximise muscular size.

At your stage, the absolute best thing you can do would be a starting strength type routine, emphasising heavy compounds. This sort of exercise will force your muscles to become bigger simply to cope with the extra forces you are putting on them.

5x5 is brilliant for beginners. Squats, benches, deadlifts & shoulder presses will build more muscle more efficiently than hours of [email protected] about with isolation exercises or trying to copy some Olympian's pre-contest routine.


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

klach79 said:


> Completely disagree
> 
> In the past I trained with starting strength and Madcow's 5x5, also trained with a world ranked power lifter. All great for strength but not much in the way of hypertrophy.
> 
> ...


Suppose everyone is different but as people have pointed out its hard to.have a good physique without being fairly strong. That's why 5x5 would be the best imo. He's not built enough to be training separate body parts etc. He needs to get some meet on him and there's no better way than heavy.compounds and big food


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Different things work for different people. I have always trained for strength but have developed a lot of muscle by doing this. If I do multi exercise/multi set bodybuilding style training my muscles stop growing.


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## Poo-lander (Mar 12, 2012)

robc1985 said:


> 5x5 is.all you need mate. BIG HEAVY.COMPOUNDS is all you need. What im doing is bang on for gaining size


The 5x5 workout do u do that with bigger weightts ie. i do dumbell bench press at 36kg..should i move it upto 40kg when doing 5x5?

Thanks


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## Andy 67 (May 2, 2012)

robc1985 said:


> Suppose everyone is different but as people have pointed out its hard to.have a good physique without being fairly strong. That's why 5x5 would be the best imo. He's not built enough to be training separate body parts etc. He needs to get some meet on him and there's no better way than heavy.compounds and big food


Also - when OP does have a go at more 'hypertrophy' style workouts in the future, he will be using more weight & will therefore get bigger quicker.


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Poo-lander said:


> The 5x5 workout do u do that with bigger weightts ie. i do dumbell bench press at 36kg..should i move it upto 40kg when doing 5x5?
> 
> Thanks


You should aim to increase weights every week. If you can't then eat more


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Nice little debate going on, what about a compromise routine where you do 5x5 compounds to start and a couple 3x10 isolation to finish?

Anyone tried this type of workout?

Surely that's the best of both worlds?


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

faultline said:


> Nice little debate going on, what about a compromise routine where you do 5x5 compounds to start and a couple 3x10 isolation to finish?
> 
> Anyone tried this type of workout?
> 
> Surely that's the best of both worlds?


This is basically how I train these days, now I no longer train specifically for strength.

I do 1 compound for 5 sets at a relatively low rep range increasing the weight each set. I then add two further exercises for 1 or, at the most, 2 sets each at a higher rep range. For instance I trained Chest today.

Dips 5x10 reps adding weight each set.

DB Bench 1 set to failure.

DB Flye 1 set to failure.

And that is it. Failure could mean a normal set with additional forced reps, partials, negatives or drop sets. But 1 absolute all out set and done. Might be 15 reps, might be 30 reps all told. For me this gives the strength and the muscle stimulation and provides maximum time to recover and grow.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

faultline said:


> Nice little debate going on, what about a compromise routine where you do 5x5 compounds to start and a couple 3x10 isolation to finish?
> 
> Anyone tried this type of workout?
> 
> Surely that's the best of both worlds?


jim wendler (powerlifter) devised 5-3-1 with strength and or hypertrophy in mind .

for a bodybuilder i would suggest training heavy compounds then finish with isolations .

there is an old saying which i think needs to be said ...

a strong muscle is a big muscle but a big muscle is not always a strong muscle .

3 years ago i started off around 11 stone im now 18 stone and in ok shape  i did this through strength training , strength training is the quickest way to add mass .


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## Jack92 (Aug 23, 2010)

faultline said:


> Nice little debate going on, what about a compromise routine where you do 5x5 compounds to start and a couple 3x10 isolation to finish?
> 
> Anyone tried this type of workout?
> 
> Surely that's the best of both worlds?


This is how I used to train, I'm currently devising a 12 week program were the first exercise is a compound lift of 5x5, the following exercises (2 - 4 depending on the muscle group) are of a higher rep range which varies depending on which stage of the program your at, could be 6 - 8, 10 - 14 or 12 - 15 reps, the rep range changes every 4 weeks. Once I have finished developing this program I'll post it up.


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Right, this is starting to sound like a winner here, still a 3 day split, either a push pull legs or body parts split, but with heavy 5x5 compounds to start and finish off with a couple if isolations.

What's peoples thoughts on training a muscle twice a week? Overtraining?


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## Kennyken (Jun 20, 2011)

ewen said:


> jim wendler (powerlifter) devised 5-3-1 with strength and or hypertrophy in mind .
> 
> for a bodybuilder i would suggest training heavy compounds then finish with isolations .
> 
> ...


Just what I like to hear


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

faultline said:


> Right, this is starting to sound like a winner here, still a 3 day split, either a push pull legs or body parts split, but with heavy 5x5 compounds to start and finish off with a couple if isolations.
> 
> What's peoples thoughts on training a muscle twice a week? Overtraining?


Depends how heavy and how intensely you are training. If the weights lifted go up it's naturally going to take longer to recover from lifting them. I would suggest training more often at the beginning of a routine and reducing the volume as the effort and intensity increase.

I'm a maximum of 3 days a week trainer myself, unless I'm doing some light maintenance stuff.


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

Kennyken said:


> Just what I like to hear


Ditto. Went from 11 to 13.but then cut. Mistake! Now strength all the way up to 14 min!


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## bally (Feb 15, 2009)

ewen:3331599 said:


> low reps/sets forces the muscles to adapt and overcome however they never will providing you have progressive overload , the idea for strength training to add mass is the fibers become reinforced like bunkers so imagine a single concrete wall then another concrete wall built next to it and so on , you now have a single wall that is 10 x thicker than started .
> 
> if you did higher reps/sets all your doing is flushing blood into the muscle to expand creating a bigger void and slowly over time this void gets bigger but strength training will see you make bigger gains quicker then you set about flushing the muscle mass full of blood to expand further .
> 
> ...


Well explained ewen

X2 on the stronglifts, i used this last year and to start with found it easy, but the weight soon became heavy and from this workout i added around a stone,

have a good read up on the stronglifts site theres a lot of crap on there but the workouts are great.....dont be afraid to lower the weights at the start, start of light to get your form good.

Good luck mate


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok had a look at the rippetoe ss and stronglifts, apparently ss is better as you fail quicker on stronglifts?

Anyway a question I have about both of them is why do they say 1x5 on deadlifts?

Everything else is like 3x5 or 5x5 except deadlifts, how can working your back for one set a week develop it at all?

Am I missing something?


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

Do 5x5 to be stronger as this will help you to follow a bb routine of 10-12 reps per set using heavy poundages ,apart the strenght factor 5x5 is very easy to follow as you dont need a lot of equipment and you can train at home but in the future after 6 months of 5x5 you need to join a gym for a proper workout (machines,less trainig time as all the db and weights are ready ,motivation,spoting etc).

I will avoid in your place to train 5x5 twice a bodypart a week as this will stretch your joints and ligaments and there isnt enough time for your muscles to recover.

IMO strenght routines atm like 5x5 is the way to go for you.


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## stavmangr (Nov 25, 2008)

faultline said:


> Ok had a look at the rippetoe ss and stronglifts, apparently ss is better as you fail quicker on stronglifts?
> 
> Anyway a question I have about both of them is why do they say 1x5 on deadlifts?
> 
> ...


propably they mean the proper real last set you do lets say warm up with a couple of high reps sets before the final but ...i dont know what have read...


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

I did rippetoe ss. Highly.reccomended. Trust though 1x5 is plenty for deads if you're going heavy enough!


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

But is 1 set a week for back enough?

At the mo I do about 9 sets on back day.

There saying squat EVERY workout so your doing say 15 sets a week for legs but only 1 set a week for back??

Confused.com


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

faultline said:


> But is 1 set a week for back enough?
> 
> At the mo I do about 9 sets on back day.
> 
> ...


you do aba bab so one week you hit it once and next week twice , also squatting will bring deadlifts up , the 1x5 is all out .


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

Don't let the lack of volume put you off. Look at it as an opportunity to put more into that particular set because you don't have to save anything for the other 8 sets you would normally do. Put 9 sets worth of effort into the one set.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Mingster said:


> Don't let the lack of volume put you off. Look at it as an opportunity to put more into that particular set because you don't have to save anything for the other 8 sets you would normally do. Put 9 sets worth of effort into the one set.


thats great advice ming .


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

Great advice from everyone, thank you all.

I will be doing a version of ss with possibly a bit of Iso at the end, got a few weeks to work it all out and come up with a plan


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

What do people think of the Wendler 5-3-1 routine? I'm weighing up options on what to try when I start a new routine after my holiday in a couple of weeks. I had a look through a few, including the ones above and this one appeals to me the most. Any thoughts?


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## robc1985 (Jan 28, 2010)

faultline said:


> Great advice from everyone, thank you all.
> 
> I will be doing a version of ss with possibly a bit of Iso at the end, got a few weeks to work it all out and come up with a plan


Good lad you won't regret it. Be surprised.how hard it bloody is. So tough. You'll get strong though. Try up weight every week. Oh and.enjoy the cleans. Feck me they're hard!


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Monkey skeleton said:


> What do people think of the Wendler 5-3-1 routine? I'm weighing up options on what to try when I start a new routine after my holiday in a couple of weeks. I had a look through a few, including the ones above and this one appeals to me the most. Any thoughts?


i ran it for a short spell i rate it it has differing assistance layouts so you either do main lift go home or main lift basic assistance or hypertrophy assistance , ive got the ebook if anybody wants it just email me (press the gold dude for my email) .


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

ewen said:


> i ran it for a short spell i rate it it has differing assistance layouts so you either do main lift go home or main lift basic assistance or hypertrophy assistance , ive got the ebook if anybody wants it just email me (press the gold dude for my email) .


Man.... You're quick!

Greatfully received, mate. Looking forward to having a read through while my mrs watches the olympics! Lol

Cheers


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

Monkey skeleton said:


> Man.... You're quick!
> 
> Greatfully received, mate. Looking forward to having a read through while my mrs watches the olympics! Lol
> 
> Cheers


no probs mate


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## synthasize (Aug 15, 2009)

I agree with 5x5, very diverse programme, used it when cutting and bulking alike. Just be careful you dont go overboard on the exercises


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I've spent a couple of days reading up on 5x5 strength routines, as per all the suggestions on here, and it seems rippetoe 3x5 and stronglifts 5x5 are the most popular.

so thinking of going with stronglifts, I've downloaded the e-book and am about 1/3 of the way through it.

So to people that have done this routine, (A:squat,bench,row, B:squat, press,deadlift) did you find copying it exactly how it's set out was fine?

Or was there anything else added such as dips?


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## ENIGMA89 (Jun 22, 2011)

I ran SS for about 3 months and went from 12 stone to 13.7. I'm 6'2 as well and found that i could do dips/pull-ups maybe some curls at the start but once you start adding weight to your squats, bench, deads etc I didn't need to include them as I would be f**ked by the time I got to them.

My advice would be do what suits you, everyone is different. I would give it ago and if it seems to much when the weights increase drop them as its not worth injuring yourself.

Doing this rountine again in 2 weeks, had an op and just waiting to be fully recovered before I start again.

Also eat Sh**t loads of clean food. I tried it with and wihout alot of milk and found that with milk helped with my recovery loads!!

Good luck


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

klach79 said:


> Completely disagree
> 
> In the past I trained with starting strength and Madcow's 5x5, also trained with a world ranked power lifter. All great for strength but not much in the way of hypertrophy.
> 
> ...


Did I not see a thread from you somewhere saying you've only been training for 6 months??


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

I love 5x5 type routines, and other lower rep routines like Max OT. I've made most of my gains on these type of routines. Body just seems to like it. IMO for a natty I agree with Ewen that strength type training is the best for building mass.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

in 3 years ive gained over 6 stone in bodyweight through strength training .


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

ewen said:


> in 3 years ive gained over 6 stone in bodyweight through strength training .


Thats what I'm talkin about and unless you've turned into a fat cnut, they are unreal gains. Even if 3 stone of it was fat it would still be damn impressive IMO. Anyone who thinks strength training doesn't build muscle is not eating enough IMO


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

36-26 said:


> Thats what I'm talkin about and unless you've turned into a fat cnut, they are unreal gains. Even if 3 stone of it was fat it would still be damn impressive IMO. Anyone who thinks strength training doesn't build muscle is not eating enough IMO


ive got top 2 abs on show , im 18 stone and yeah to be a bodybuilder id have to lose a stone but im not and i intend to be 20 stone by xmas .


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

ewen said:


> ive got top 2 abs on show , im 18 stone and yeah to be a bodybuilder id have to lose a stone but im not and i intend to be 20 stone by xmas .


Fair play mate, the proof is in the pudding as they say. If all the people farting around with pump routines just trained for strength and ate a load of food they's probably be a lot further along the road than they are now IMO.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

36-26 said:


> Fair play mate, the proof is in the pudding as they say. If all the people farting around with pump routines just trained for strength and ate a load of food they's probably be a lot further along the road than they are now IMO.


it can be seen in every gym bicep boys or guys blindly following the pro`s .


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

I was reading about reg park today and he says bodybuilders and powerlifters should both train the same, 5x5, just BB's should eat more to build bulk while PL's should eat at maintance to stay in their weight class, makes sense to me, gonna shoot for 3500cals a day.

I wanna get started on this new routine next week but I have to have a week off in 3 weeks so dunno if I should start now?!?


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

ewen said:


> in 3 years ive gained over 6 stone in bodyweight through strength training .


Is that with help from the good stuff or natty mate? Iether way, fecking impressive!


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## IGotTekkers (Jun 6, 2012)

faultline said:


> I was reading about reg park today and he says bodybuilders and powerlifters should both train the same, 5x5, just BB's should eat more to build bulk while PL's should eat at maintance to stay in their weight class, makes sense to me, gonna shoot for 3500cals a day.
> 
> I wanna get started on this new routine next week but I have to have a week off in 3 weeks so dunno if I should start now?!?


A week off never hurt anybody. Iv not missed one workout since i started training 6 months ago but im gonna have a week off in a month or two to recover.


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

klach79 said:


> No offence to anyone that has posted but we are in the natural bodybuding section and the vast majority of people posting advice are not natural!


training natty or assisted should be the same all gear does is add icing to the cake not make up for sh1tty training .


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

ewen said:


> it can be seen in every gym bicep boys or guys blindly following the pro`s .


Out of interest Ewen what is your favoured style of training for strength? what gave you the most gains in strength and mass???


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## Monkey skeleton (Jul 8, 2012)

36-26 said:


> Out of interest Ewen what is your favoured style of training for strength? what gave you the most gains in strength and mass???


I'm gonna guess at.... Zumba! Lol


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## faultline (Feb 5, 2010)

So new routine in thinking of doing:

A squat bench row curls 5x5

B squat oh press deads dips 5x5

3 times a week rotating

2 questions

1 squats every workout? Or every other?

2 curls and dips nessesary? Or overtraining arms?


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## NatRookie (Feb 23, 2012)

faultline said:


> So new routine in thinking of doing:
> 
> A squat bench row curls 5x5
> 
> ...


you wont be overtraining your arms with curls and dips. also squat every other day.

the routine i work is 3 different workouts but done 3 times over 2 weeks. i find that the 2 week plan helps work the body parts every 4-5 days, with a good amount of exercises (5xt5 etc).


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

36-26 said:


> Out of interest Ewen what is your favoured style of training for strength? what gave you the most gains in strength and mass???


working on % of 1rm with different rep/set ranges but also the right exercises .

im currently following a russian method which is by far the best ive done so far ive done stronglifts and wendlers but of them all but my current the best routine was one i devised myself through instinct but when you make a program you get temptation to edit it here and there where as a program set in stone must be followed to the T .

russian training methods are in my mind the best .


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## MRSTRONG (Apr 18, 2009)

faultline said:


> So new routine in thinking of doing:
> 
> A squat bench row curls 5x5
> 
> ...


A

squat medium

ohp

dips

B

squat light

bench

bor

C

squat heavy

deads

chins


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## harryalmighty (Nov 13, 2011)

do a mix of 5x5 and 3x8-12. examples of my chest / back day:

chest: flat bench or dumbell press 5x5 / incline dumbell press 3x8-12 / hammer strength bench 3x8-12 / flys 2x12

back: deads 5x5 / T-bar rows 3x8-12 / low rows 3x8-12 / wide grip chins weighted 3x8


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