# What I Have Learned Over 15 Years of Use & Lifting by Alien8ed



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*What I Have Learned Over 15 Years of Use & Lifting by Alien8ed*

Hello all! I have been trying to find a unbiased forum with a good number of members to get this thread off the ground so I can add to it and interact with people in the thread, however there are few places to do this on the internet as the places I have found with decent member levels have seem to either be awkward to use or resentful of open information. Hopefully I can find a home for this thread here/

Before I get started I want to clarify a few details. I am not a competitive bodybuilding, I am not a doctor, a scientist or any other alleged expert. Everything that I am going to talk about is based on my sole experience of using steroids and related drugs in a non-competitive bodybuilding format. I am not going to post pictures or pretend that I am the best bodybuilder in the world, nor will I pretend to be an "expert" or guru. I simply want to discuss things that I have found out over the years and that will hopefully help some of you to save time and achieve what you want. I have a wealth of experience under my belt and believe that the knowledge I possess will be of benefit to some, if not many. The information I will supply will be about use will be focuses about general and bodybuilding in general. It will be based on what I have done and guided others to do to achieve their gains. It will not be about contest prep or the finer details of competitive bodybuilding, more so a generalisation of what I have used to develop in size and condition with a realistic and affordable approach, whilst keeping health paramount.

Over the years I have taught myself how to correct problems in my own body and that of others through diet and supplementing vitamins. I am not a qualified nutritionist, however I can give you no solid methods that have helped me and many others with ailments and share with you my what I believe to be solid information that is easy to follow to ensure you give yourself the best chance of impeccable health. What I will talk about comes from years of making mistakes and learning through trial, error and education in myself and that of others. I have a good range of experience and I believe that some of what I say will be of to benefit most of you at some point. You are more than welcome not to take anything of what I have to say on-board or even mock it, however I hope you read my words and interact in the post and share your views and knowledge, especially the more experienced lifters so that the younger generation can benefit.

The main areas I would like to focus on is use, health and diet as I believe these are the most important, but I will touch on other issues that are related. I am not going to justify the science or get into arguments over what is proven and what is not, these are my beliefs, they are educated and may serve to help you. I will not be discussing sources, where to buy or anything like that, so please do not PM and ask me. I have been on the forum scene for some time

This information will not be in any particular order, I will just be posting my thoughts on different subjects over the weeks to come and bouncing back and forth between topics. Some posts will be more general, some however will be more in-depth. I hope you enjoy what I have to read.

*Over Obsession - Training*

Luckily this was a lesson learned young. In the early years I used to obsess about training. I thought the more I focused on it and the harder I trained the quicker and better I would develop. How I was wrong! It often held me back as for every piece of information out there there is something contradictory that would confuse me and leave me in limbo. The gains only started to really come strong when I through all that crap out the window and focused on putting together drugs in my body through trial and error. Funnily enough, I actually made my best gains, with the exception of using such things as growth hormone by actually training around twice a week of which the body parts where spread over around a ten day period. Overall for condition and well being, I have found that 3 days a week is optimal for myself with a 5-6 break every couple of months. Anything more is just a waste of my time, joints and patience. I have found gains are more about what I take and my condition is more about what I take and what I eat. Training is required obviously, however I have maintained my weight and condition for lengthy periods training one, sometimes twice a week. Most of these training sessions last 20-30 minutes, occasionally longer if I am tired or if I have been chatting. I have found that training your muscles well comes from experience, it is not something you learn in a video or in the words of text, it is more about learning from over training and learning to step back what you need to do to stimulate the muscle. For me, once the muscle is stimulated, I move onto the next body part or leave. I do the least possible to achieve this. The years of training my energy levels and my joints into the ground so I could fool myself into thinking I was going to get bigger are well and truly gone. Often taking a step back is required to progress forward.

*Unrealistic Expectations - The lies that lead to them*

Bodybuilding is full of the sick and twisted. It is not an activity where practitioners freely offer good advice, they like to keep secrets and talk lies as more often than not bodybuilders are an insecure breed. Many people will mislead you with what they actually take and do to prevent you advancing as well as you could. Some will mislead you to make money from you (often to cover their expensive habits), however many are selfish individuals and/or inexperienced individuals who paraphrase bull s**t wives tails and give bogus advice to try to explain your short comings, all so they can have you believe that they are superior to you in some way. Often only what is superior to these people is the quality of products of what they have in their arsenal and how they put them together. These sorts of people are rife, especially in places where money is involved such as magazines, bodybuilding conventions, supplement shops, internet forums etc. If someone is set to financially gain from something, be wary of their advice.

This leads me on to realistic expectations. Do not seek the natural route and expect the gains of steroid users, do not use steroids and expect that you will achieve the same look of an experienced growth hormone user, do not believe that you can obtain insulin related gains without using insulin, do not expect low doses to produce the same results of higher doses and most of all do not let yourself be fooled into thinking that supplements can achieve the results of pharmaceuticals. The route of a body builder should be to better yourself, do not focus on others. You will have constant dissatisfaction and a bitter taste in your mouth if you fuel yourself on becoming someone else. Size and condition can all be improved, however you individual genetics dictate how all this is put together, if you have a weak chest genetically and strive for the Arnold type chest, you will only make yourself miserable as you will keep coming up short. I will always advocate building the biggest, strongest, leanest you. Critics will always call what you have, everyone's views are different, however the only one that should matter is yours.

*Chemical Enhancement - More of an art that a science. *

I will not deny that science has its place in bodybuilding, all the drugs we use to day we have science to thank for. It is a useful tool that I believe should be part of your arsenal, however obsessing over studies proved to be fruitless for me and  others that I witnessed doing the same thing. What I have learned about using steroids related drugs is it is how they come about in the body to effect it which produces the gains that I was looking for. This comes from trial an error in yourself. A set dose or "stack" will work well for one and not as well for another, some drugs your will tolerate, some you wont. You need to find what works in you and put it together with the other drugs that work in combination to achieve your goals. I have often taken 6-10 different steroids and other drugs simultaneously to achieve a certain look, however I do admit I have learned to do this with less over the years.

One thing that I have witnessed over the years is the patterns that develop amongst people. I have seen people get in great condition with nothing more than deca and test, however you will find that for most it is a particular group of drugs that you will rely on to bring about condition and it will be another group that bring about greater gains in size. That does not mean to say you can not mix things up and find something that works well for you or a measure that allows you to make steady gains and remain in good condition. I would say there are few people I have seen that can bring out a hard condition solely test, deca and d.bol.

*Macro Counting*

In the early years I followed the masses like a little lost sheep and counted my calories in search of the physique I desired. I did this for years and struggled with my conditioning throughout. There was no guide book back then, no forums to guide me, just a few lousy paperback books and some bad information passed around the gyms.

Fortunately back when I started using I was lucky enough to train and be friends with some pretty large older guys in my youth. Back then people didn't really talk in depth about what they used or what they ate, even if they where your friend. At best you would get a rough idea of what was used through general gym chat, however what I did notice eventually in regards to diet was all the big guys I knew ate pretty much what they wanted with little to no concern to what the breakdown was of what they was eating. They generally ate tasty high calorie food whilst I was eating boiled chicken and rice from plastic containers looking crap with steroids flowing through my veins. After a while I threw out my Flex magazine and plastic boxes and gave up on the idea and I started to eat more of what I wanted. At first I made mistakes as I gained more fat that muscle. I had always been a big eater and thought that is what was needed to grow, but after time and lots of frustration I started to challenge common information and realised that my problem was that I was over eating.

As time went by I learned about everything what I ate, from how it was produced to how it is preserved and I learned to eat as well as I can with the food available to me. I learned to eat real food with foods and still eat foods that I like such as ice cream and chocolate and make gains and not get fat, then I learned to eat these foods and actually get leaner. Once I learned how to use steroids effectively I could eat these foods and get in very good condition. The only real difference in my diet nowadays is how much I eat. When I want to get in shape I eat a little less and make a few minor changes, the rest of the time I am consistently the same BF, make steady gains (for my size) and I eat instinctively from the food groups that I know is best for me. I eat a varied diet, I do not worry if I change something or if I eat something that I have never ate before, I simply stop eating when I have had enough as my body knows when I have ate enough as it tells me to stop. If you was like me in years gone by then you will have no sense of this as you have always ate too much or not enough. If you currently are always in a state of gaining weight, loosing weight or in a state of being underweight and are unable to maintain a condition then you are not in tune with your body an its needs. This is something that you will need to put effort in to teaching yourself. If you want to enjoy food and have a varied diet then learning to eating instinctively is strongly advised.

*Controlling Oestrogen In Males - Looking like a man, not like a woman*

For some of you (males), oestrogen will have little of a concern, even at high doses your body will tolerate it well and drugs to combat it will be less of a concern. For those of you that your skin looks soft, suffer from related fat gain, struggle with fat loss, have puffy nipples and other related symptoms of high oestrogen, getting this hormone under control is paramount to achieving that solid defined look. Even when you are carrying a little extra body fat you will not look soft and squidgy. I have played around with every drug you can think of that is used to control this on a general use basis and after years of meddling I found a simple combination that works well for me and everyone I have advised to use it. Aromasin combined with Proviron or Masteron (or their generic counterparts) is a fantastic solution to a problem that plagues many. It can be taken year round and so long as you do not over do it has little negative side effects for most if not all. You can use Arimidex as this works equally as well, however I have found it to be more expensive and there is some science that suggests that it is possible for your body to adapt to it over the long term. I personally run a generic versions of Aromasin and Proviron/Masteron year round. I typically take a 25mg dose twice a week and use either Proviron 25mg daily or 150mg of Masteron each week. That does me for most of what I will ever use, although when the foot is on the gas pushing for size with drugs pushing that aromatase more easily, I may increase these slightly. Competitive protocols in the latter weeks will often aim to flatten oestrogen as to dry out and other drugs may be better suited, however for a guy trying to make gains it is in my experience having oestrogen that is too low is counter productive and can stop progress. In addition to this low oestrogen can kill your sex drive, make your hair fall out, make your skin flaky/dry and cause issues with mood. The whole idea is to control it, not crush it.

*The Bodies Chemistry Set - Vitamins and minerals*

The body uses vitamins and minerals that you consume to produce all the varying array of chemicals, substances, organisms at other important matter that is required for it to work correctly. There are over seventy known vitamins, minerals and fats that are known as "essential". Essential vitamins/minerals/fats are what the body can not construct from other chemicals and must be consumed through the diet. Modern farming methods have lead to a decrease in the availability of these in foods and several of these essential vitamins/minerals are exempt in the nearly all types of food. You would have to eat very large amounts of very specific food to ensure that met your daily requirements which would be very difficult and expensive to do at best.

The body is very resistant even when deprived of these essential vitamins/minerals/fats, however over long periods the body will often fail and diseases and illnesses can and will come about. There are many diseases and illnesses linked to malnutrition and I am of the belief that it is this malnutrition that causes a large proportion of diseases over the world and defects in new born babies.

Supplementation is in my opinion the best option to counter this. Over the counter multivitamins rarely contain more than thirty of these and often at doses far lower than what is recommended. A specific combination of a quality multivitamin, trace minerals, good fats and other such minerals like iodine are what I supplement to ensure good health. What initially lead me to spend time finding out about this and trialling the supplementation was the last three years before I started to supplement. I was riddled with colds several times in a year, hay fever in the spring and summer, flu and other bugs. It was not uncommon for me to spend 2-3 months of the year with some form of sickness on top of months of hay fever. I had pains in some of my joints, issues with dry skin and problems with my teeth amongst other things. In the last 3-4 years I have not had a cold, the flu, hay fever or any other ailment other than a stomach virus and a chest virus which lead to a secondary infection in my lungs. I have no new fillings or new problems with my teeth and they are much whiter. My skin is still a little dry on my face from the steroid/drug use, however it is has improved significantly. I have prescribed personal friends, my family and other people the same protocol I use (it took me time to get it right) with some changes to their diets and have reported great success. Here is a list of some of the things that people have reported cured of significantly improved:

10 year dependency on anti-acid drugs cured
A friend with Crohn's disease had drastic improvements on the food that they could now eat
Reversed hair loss in females
Multiple reports of energy level improvements
Multiple reports of reduced sickness
Joint pain reduced/reversed

I have learned that prevention is far better and more effective than cure. I would encourage anyone, not just bodybuilders to take up a complete supplementation like this as it has done nothing but wonders for me and the people I know that have followed it regardless of what brand you choose to use.

*Lifestyle & Training*

I see a whole lot of people getting caught up in what other people are doing but failing to look into themselves and find the answers for what they need. This is very common in the bodybuilding/fitness circles with how often you train and how long you train for.

Again I would like to point out individual lifestyles vary and so will what works for different people. A man who works long hours at a manual job may find two or three short sessions at the gym enough for his needs. Where a man who has a job at a desk may feel like they need to do more. Personally I think it is debatable how long it is required for you to traing to stimulate growth and if you train any harder beyond the point of stimulation if it actually stimulates any additional growth at all. I side with the idea that doing anything more than required is inefficient and I believe that you do not need to spend lengthy sessions on a regular basis in the gym to achieve a great physique. There are however a lot of people who take a different view/approach and have achieved great physiques training in the excess of five times a week for several hours at a time. My point is not to get wrapped up in this, but to assess your personal situation and do something that is achievable for you that will not wear you down on a regular basis leading to fatigue. "Burning out" is not good for gains, it is not good for your physical health and most of all it messes with your mind leading to depression and all sorts of personal issues. My life has changed a lot over the last number of years and I have gone from having more spare time than I would care to have to struggling to make time for myself to pop to the gym for weeks on end. My training, diet and attitude had to change to reflect these changes as I got busier with life, I had more things to do, less time to complete each one and a limited amount of energy to complete my tasks each day before collapsing exhausted and fed up.

I am of the opinion that until you start to look inward at your needs and no that what others do you prevent progress in all aspects of your life, the gym included. It can even lead to a decline in your life.

*Growth Hormone - The Expense*

Legitimate growth hormone is fantastic, especially for bodybuilders, however the costs to buy is high. I see many young guys obsessing with their progression and spending what can only be described as one to multiple mortgages on this luxury and leaving them selves short in later life. Bodybuilding will be held up by life for many and eventually it will come to an end for all due to age/health. I would question the logic in spending hard earned money on GH when it can be invested to make your life easier at a later date or in doing the things you want to. For those who compete or money is not in short supply, I do get why you use it and really it is a must to compete at the high levels. But for those who do not compete, work regular jobs or those who have yet to learn more about the bodybuilding industry, you will be wise to take notice of my words. Very few people make a lot of money out of being a good bodybuilder, many will spend a huge proportion of their earnings maintaining/gaining on their advanced physiques with such drugs. If you are investing in GH to be a body builder for a strong financial income at a later date then I would advise you to play the lotto as you will have better chance.

I am not telling you to never use, nor I am telling you that it is not worth the money, real GH works very well and will give you a fantastic looking physique beyond what steroids can achieve! What I am asking you is to question what you are doing and be truthful to yourself as there is no cheap way to do this unless you are are sponsored, even at friends rates effective GH doses will run up large sums of money over the course of a year. Is this look really what is the most important and if it is will it still be in the future when you have children, a mortgage and other responsibilities that most of us will end up with? You may be missing out on other experiences such as traveling and following other passions because you can not afford to finance both this and a GH regime. That several hundred to several thousand pounds you spend each month using effective doses could be used else where in your life. Please take the time to think it through because the growth look can be addictive.

*Please see the following pages as I have posted more topics there and will continue to do so periodically.*

Alien8ed


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Not being funny mate but with posts that long I doubt people will read them.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

FelonE said:


> Not being funny mate but with posts that long I doubt people will read them.


Thats putting it mildly.

Hes likely here to sell something.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

I couldn't even be ar5ed to scroll down to take the p1ss it was that long..


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## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

Plate said:


> I couldn't even be ar5ed to scroll down to take the p1ss it was that long..


I'd had a shave just before I started reading it.......looked like ZZ Top halfway through.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

It is up to people if they read it, it is broken down into small points under each* bold* part so hopefully people will read some of them and be inspired to read more eventually.

Thanks for the input anyhow.



> Thats putting it mildly.
> 
> Hes likely here to sell something.


Got nothing to sell, just share my thoughts.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

FelonE said:


> I'd had a shave just before I started reading it.......looked like ZZ Top halfway through.


av bin out and cut my grass twice while scrolling down..


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

lol


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

OP probably makes some good points, now someone read his post and tell me if I'm right or not.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Thank you, I hope that you read more.


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## philippeb (Aug 21, 2013)

actually worth reading .. but then again .. most here arent even making gains ..


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Too long, didn't read.

What Anti -Acid meds were you on, & how did you cure the problem?


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## RedStar (Aug 8, 2014)

I actually think it's quite informative and always welcome to hearing about others experiences.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Too long, didn't read.
> 
> What Anti -Acid meds were you on, & how did you cure the problem?


It wasn't myself, but a friend of mine. I am unsure of what medications he was talking but he was taking them for over 10 years daily due to acid reflux. This with some changes to some bad eating habits stopped it within a couple of weeks and helped him in some other areas to.



> actually worth reading .. but then again .. most here arent even making gains ..


It is a shame because this is one of the few forums left with a decent number of members.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Post a pic OP, people might read it if you look good enough.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I am not going to post pictures as I wish to remain anonymous. People can read it and make their own minds up if it is crap or not on what is being said. That is down to the individual. Pictures are irrelevant to content.


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## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

In4piccies


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I am not going to post pictures as I wish to remain anonymous. People can read it and make their own minds up if it is crap or not on what is being said. That is down to the individual. Pictures are irrelevant to content.


thought as much, you can cover you face you know.

I understand after all your trials and errors and formulating a huge post to advise people you still LLS.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

That does not leave you anonymous. There will be no pictures.


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## Irondan (Nov 23, 2014)

Good read, thanks for putting the time in. Quite a lot to take in so will have to revisit.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> That does not leave you anonymous. There will be no pictures.


No problem, you may as just get to what you are selling.


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## spudsy (May 13, 2009)

Thought it was a decent read to be honest, seems this site has changed, used to be that members were appreciative of somebody taking the time to share their knowledge.... now they just seem to get slated that there posts are too long.

This site is 90% general convo these days.

Keep sharing mate.


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## DaveCW (Dec 9, 2013)

Good read.

Thanks OP.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Legit. But most people won't take notice just from reading it, they have to learn it themselves by trial and error for it to actually sink in in most cases.


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## Tomahawk (Dec 24, 2014)

OK, I added this to the list of bookmarked pages I will probably never ever get around to reading..


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## toxyuk (Sep 8, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> Before I get started I want to clarify a few details. I am not a competitive bodybuilding, I am not a doctor, a scientist or any other alleged expert. Everything that I am going to talk about is based on my sole experience of using steroids and related drugs in a GYM RAT format.


this should be intresting.............. im off for a s**t!


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## Kill Kcal (May 11, 2013)

Enjoyed reading half of it so far, going sleep now though and will finish the rest tomorrow. TL;DR is basically, you have to find what works for you.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

It's fu**ing long, but I happen to be an excellent speed reader  Good post tbf, definitely agree that a lot of us are guilty of going through training OCD whee we feel the need to chop and change our workout every week, whereas if you just concentrated on going in and training your bollocks off on a sensible program then you'd soon discover what's really working and what isn't.


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## testosquirrel (Jan 14, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> Thank you, I hope that you read more.


I read it all woke up gor a wizz about an hour ago...can't get bk to sleep wind is loud..woods outsude the house are ridiculously loud...soooooo part two . If there is one yet


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

testosquirrel said:


> I read it all woke up gor a wizz about an hour ago...can't get bk to sleep wind is loud..woods outsude the house are ridiculously loud...soooooo part two . If there is one yet


windy as fook here as well


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## zyphy (Jun 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> Thats putting it mildly.
> 
> Hes likely here to sell something.


you mean like gh15 and his fake kits lmao


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

I liked it, some interesting points made and well worth a read.... thanks o.p


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## testosquirrel (Jan 14, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> I am not going to post pictures as I wish to remain anonymous. People can read it and make their own minds up if it is crap or not on what is being said. That pictuis down to the individual. Pictures are irrelevant to content.


pictures are definitely relevant. ..if a 10st skinny guys pick was on this thread comment do u think ppl would take it as seriously as someone who looked like jay Cutler? ..pictures are evidence of your methods and training success along with adding more trust when u talk about diet..millions of ppl talk about dirt on sites, forums magazines....the pics they add are not for show. ..you could say all these things and believe in them but they mught just br theories your trying to pass off as experiences but actually mat have failed to live by your own methods and ways consistently and come up short but are still convinced in them...or u couod gave done everything you say but failed to build a decent physique....I bet thst is one reason ur worried about posting picture..the reason being ppl judging u and not being impressed with results after 15 years and maybe calling you out on your ideas and methods/beliefs/experience. ..but it is an interest read but not seeing results..before after progress makes ppl think why listen to u..


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Next topics for you to read

*The Importance Of Saturated Fat & Cholesterol In Your Diet*

For many years now there has been an attack by the media on these sorts of fats saying that they will lead to you being unhealthy, my view is quite the opposite! If you look outside of the general media stream you will find a whole host of studies that support what I am about to say. Saturated fats and cholesterol are in nearly ever cell in the human body. Cholesterol makes up a large proportion of the tissue side of the brain (non fluid) and the nervous system, where saturated fats make up the outer layer of living cells throughout the body. By restricting these sort of food groups in your diet your body will suffer as a result, especially your brain and over the long term you are more likely to suffer from neurological problems such as Alzheimer's disease in later life. There is also plenty of information to suggest that by having a diet low in saturated fat you increase the risk of strokes and heart attacks ten fold along with being vulnerable to other diseases. Many in the medical community are even starting to move away from using cholesterol as an indicator for heat attacks and strokes as there are now better methods through checking such things as Insulin, Homocysteine & CRP levels in the body. High cholesterol has been suggested that it can even be healthy, especially in bodybuilders.

*Why I Do Not Use Vegetable Oils (Including Olive Oil)*

Most people believe that olive oil is good for you. I would say you are right if you buy genuine quality olive oil and you do not use it for cooking in. What I have found to be true is that most of the so called olive oil sold in shops nowadays is stale junk and it is certainly not good for the body, especially when you heat it up. A quality olive oil does not come cheap and there is good reason for this. The oil in olives from the day they are harvested begins to break down, this is accelerated rapidly by excessive heat and through sunlight. To avoid damage from UV a quality olive oil will be in a dark glass bottle and needs to be stored in a place out of sunlight when not in use. All quality olive oils will include a harvested (not sold by) date on the bottle and should be used no longer than two years from the date of harvest if stored correctly as it is considered to be stale. I invite you to check your super markets and see how much of the olive oil is in dark glass bottles with harvest dates on them. Extra virgin olive oil is the best version, it needs to be cold pressed, unrefined and only uses the best quality olives. If you have ever tasted real olive oil you will find the taste and even the look is very different from the mainstream versions that are sold as the same. Most of the super market product is stale, low quality olives which are refined. Some even use other vegetable oils as additives.

The problem when cooking with vegetable oils are that they are high in mono-saturates. Mono-saturates and poly-polyunsaturates do not hold up well to temperatures used in cooking. They are fine been drizzled on warm food, however when cooked they denature and this is where the problem lies. There is a common misconception that these oils when heated turn into trans-fatty acids. This is not true, they do however denature and polymerise which has been shown to cause an inflammatory effect in the body. This really is not good for you and your health.

I personally cook with butter from grass fed cows, however lard and other animal fats from ducks, geese, pigs etc are also better options than vegetable oils as their high levels of saturated fats allows them to withstand higher temperatures from cooking for longer. There are things that you need to be aware about with fats which I will cover at a later date. I still would advise that when cooking with these to use the lowest temperatures possible as it is still possible to burn these when cooking which will cause them to denature.

*Steroids Cycles*

Nowadays I do not personally go on and off steroids, I have been on consistently for years. I do not believe in PCT, I do not believe it to be any more healthier for you and I have found it to be detrimental to progress from the earlier years when I used to do it. I do adjust doses, and swap drugs around from time to time. When I do adjust things from a health point of view I focus on giving my kidneys and liver a brake.

Over my 15 years of use I have used Trenbolone for years straight with little more than a 4-6 weeks off in a 12 month period. I have used orals without break for as long as 18 months including so called harsh orals like Superdrol. I believe that steroid use is a long term commitment and can be used safety on a long term basis so long as you are sensible about lifestyle choices. I intend to use steroids right through the course of my life, however as I age I want to back down on what I take just to maintain youthful levels when I am older as my body will simply not produce any natural testosterone after than long of suppression.

I will use doses typically around 2000-2500mg when pushing boundaries, sometimes I go higher, however I can maintain a good look on 800mg when using the right products for me. I used to run much higher doses for long periods, but I now I am not as interested in doing this as I am getting older. Currently I sit at 240lbs in good condition at 5,10ft without the use of GH or Insulin and mostly maintain. I have been maintaining for around a year now, however shortly I will be increasing doses and pushing for some additional size. When I push for size I like to use higher doses of Androl and other products like Deca.

When I go from what I call my everyday maintenance condition to very good conditioning, my weight does not change that much and it will take me around six to seven weeks to achieve a solid look. I will look bigger but the weight will be very similar. The amount of products I use does increase, again I will be using around 2500mg of products in total whilst doing this and I will focus heavily on things like Trenbolone or Halo to bring about the levels of condition. I can achieve this look with several different drugs, however I do favour EQ, Superdrol, Tren, Masteron and some Testosterone in combination with Aromasin. When I used to use GH I used to always use it with this combination, nowadays I do not bother with this as priorities in my life have changed.

By keeping steroid levels steady and progressing does slowly over the years I have had no negative impacts on my mood. I am a very calm and rational person, the things that anger me always have and mostly they come from indecency which would piss me of regardless. I believe that steroids have improved the quality of my life and am not ashamed of my use.

*More to come soon...*

*Alien8ed*


----------



## dmull86 (Sep 28, 2014)

Good info. I'm looking forward to the next installment. Would I be better taking Seperate vitamins on top of the multivitamin I'm taking at the minute do u rekon. I thought it was most of what my body needed from the label. Serious question



Alien8ed said:


> That does not leave you anonymous. There will be no pictures.


----------



## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

what tha flogging


----------



## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

Unless you suffer from severe adhd it is not hard to read for 5 minutes, why the whinging guys?

Nice post op


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Good info. I'm looking forward to the next installment. Would I be better taking Seperate vitamins on top of the multivitamin I'm taking at the minute do u rekon. I thought it was most of what my body needed from the label. Serious question


Sorry I quoted the wrong person. Vitamins come in different types and some are better absorbed than others, however you do not need to pay a fortune to have something effective. What I do is buy a multivitamin powder which has 33 vitamins in it and take around 1.5-2.0g of it each morning. I supplement vitamin C at 0.5g a day (just have these with some quality jam in natural full fat yogurt) I then take one 650mg trace mineral complex capsule each day and also have a drop of liquid molybdenum and Lugo's iodine (15%) a couple times a week. The whole lot does me and my family for about £100 a year, obviously doses for women and children are less. The only other thing I take is Cod liver oil and have around 5-10ml each day, this costs about £8 every 5-6 weeks. Just one thing to point out, taking iodine and vitamin c together is not advised as there is a concern that they can affect one another effecting how much you actually take in, so best to take them at different times of day.

The take a lot higher RDA with the multivitamin and vitamin c. I will keep it short but because the way that body removes toxins and the stresses that the body is under from modern day environmental factors which I will explain in the next post, I believe the the RDA's of some are completely wrong for the modern world. There are quite a lot of people who support this as well, plus remember the RDA is aimed the the minimum required for someone who is quite small as the studies where done as much as 50 years ago. As a body builder, fitness athlete, sports person etc you will need a lot more as you lose more vitamins in minerals through exercise and sweating.

With the trace minerals (colloidal) you just need to ensure they come from a source that has collect over a long period of time such as ones in the sea or in large lakes. Trace minerals are just tiny bits of all the things that make up the earth that your body uses in tiny amounts.

Below is what is in the multivitamin per gram what I take, cut and pasted it.:

*Calcium (495mg)*

Calcium is known for being needed for the maintenance of normal bones, but it has a wide variety of other benefits. These include contributing to the normal function of digestive enzymes, playing a role in the process of cell division and being needed for the maintenance of normal teeth.

*Magnesium (150mg)*

Magnesium contributes to a reduction in tiredness and fatigue as well as contributing to normal protein synthesis and normal muscle function.

*Vitamin C (150mg)*

Vitamin C is renowned for contributing to the normal function of the immune system. Alongside this, Vitamin C contributes to the protection of cells against oxidative stress and the reduction of tiredness and fatigue.

*Green Tea 95% Extract (100mg)*

Green Tea, popular in China for centuries, is a popular supplement in its own right, and makes a unique addition to the Complete Multivitamin Complex™ formula.

*Grape Seed 95% Extract (50mg)*

Grape Seed Extract is derived from the whole grape seed and is rich in proanthocyanidins.

*Hesperidin (39mg)*

Hesperidin is a flavone, most commonly found in citrus fruits such as oranges.

*B Vitamins (B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, Inositol, B12 & Choline)*

B-Vitamins contribute to normal energy yielding metabolism, normal functioning of the nervous system and contributing to a reduction in tiredness and fatigue amongst a wide range of benefits.

*Quercetin (25mg)*

Quercetin, a well-known bioflavanoid, is typically found in fruits and vegetables.

*Zinc (15mg)*

Zinc contributes to the maintenance of normal testosterone levels in the blood, as well as contributing to normal cognitive function and carbohydrate metabolism.

*Iron (14.1mg)*

Iron is best known for contributing to normal oxygen transport in the body and the formation of red blood cells.

*Vitamin E (10.5mg)*

Vitamin E contributes to the protection of cells against oxidative stress.

*Lactobacilus Acidophilus (150,000,000 units)*

Lactobacilus Acidophilus is a strain of bacteria that can be found in the gut.

*Lutein (10mg)*

Lutein is a naturally occurring carotenoid and is found in plants.

*Co Enzyme Q10 (10mg)*

Co Enzyme Q10, typically referred to as COQ10, is made naturally in the body and is present in all cells.

*Piperine (6mg)*

Piperine, a form of black pepper extract, contributes to the absorption of the other nutrients in the formula.

*Lycopene (3.3mg)*

Lycopene, found in tomatoes, is a major carotenoid.

*Vitamin A (400µg)*

Vitamin A contributes to normal Iron metabolism, the maintenance of normal vision and has a role in the process of cell specialisation.

*Folic Acid (400µg)*

Folic Acid contributes to normal amino acid synthesis as well as contributing to a reduction in tiredness and fatigue.

*Biotin (150µg)*

Biotin contributes to normal energy yielding metabolism and normal functioning of the nervous system.

*Manganese (100µg)*

Manganese contributes to the normal formation of connective tissue and contributes to protecting cells from oxidative stress.

*Copper (100µg)*

Copper contributes to the maintenance of normal connective tissues and normal iron transport in the body.

*Vitamin K1 (100µg)*

Vitamin K1 contributes to normal blood clotting.

*Chromium (100µg)*

Chromium contributes to the maintenance of normal blood glucose levels and normal macronutrient metabolism.

*Boron (100µg)*

Boron is a trace mineral.

*Selenium (55µg)*

Selenium contributes to normal spermatogenesis and the normal function of the immune system.

*Vitamin D3 (25µg)*

Use what ever brand you like. I am not going to get into brands before I get accused of selling something.


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

@banzi looks like he's got some sort of multi-vitamin to sell


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ellisrimmer said:


> @banzi looks like he's got some sort of multi-vitamin to sell


knew it.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Sorry to disappoint you fellas but nothing to sell. Feel free to keep speculating however.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Next part...

*Anavar Vs Winstrol for conditioning*

Anavar is the better of the two, but it is much more expensive and faked often. What most people take what they believe to be Anavar is actually Winstrol. Both compared to other alternatives such as Trenbolone, Halo and weak but they do have their place in use. If money was no object, I would use legitimate Anavar each time, however for a normal guy who has to work hard for his money, do not be put of using Winstrol. The differences between the two are not so great and although Anavar does produce a better look, Winstrol can be used effectively also. It is not something I would prep on, I would use Trenbolone and Halo for that, however Winstrol can put a nice polish on an already decent physique and I have known a few people who swear that they grow well on it. I would avoid the injectable solutions like the plague as they are prone to crystallisation which can lead to abscesses and other issues, plus it is processed by the liver in the same way so there is no benefit to injecting it.

I personally see the purpose of Winstrol to be an affordable way to approve your appearance when used correctly, although I have used it in bulking regimes before and been successful with it. It is a good steroid for people to start out with also as it is easy to take.

*Best Orals - My View*

Superdrol
Halo
Androl

All three can be used for growth and getting in shape depending on what they are stacked with, although I would say to use Trenbolone for longer periods of lean growth over Halo. Halo is very powerful and works fast but can be taxing to use. Superdrol is more cosmetic that Androl and I believe produces the best look (only need 20-30mg), but Androl when stacked with things like Test and Deca can blow people up quickly. D.bol is also a very good steroid and is best suited for growth in my opinion. I tend to favor pushing Androl high from being lean with things like Deca or even EQ. This way with Androl particularly works with with GH and Insulin protocols.

*More to come soon..*


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## Irondan (Nov 23, 2014)

Again good stuff, cheers Alien.

Are you not posting pics because you are somebody we might know. Are you a famous BB?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Irondan said:


> Again good stuff, cheers Alien.
> 
> Are you not posting pics because you are somebody we might know. Are you a famous BB?


lol, is he f**k.

http://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/what-i-have-learned-over-15-years-use-amp-lifting-alien8ed-38806.html?s=f295dc4b7703fa42480d73b2b4f24942


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## Irondan (Nov 23, 2014)

banzi said:


> lol, is he f**k.


Might be Dorian Yates, wouldnt want to go upsetting him. Plus, would be pretty cool having DY on here.

Fingers crossed.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Might be Dorian Yates, wouldnt want to go upsetting him. Plus, would be pretty cool having DY on here.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


lol, no I am not.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/pt/search.php?searchid=7052061


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/pt/search.php?searchid=7052061


I posted a few overr there and realised it was not the best place to do it, what is your point?


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*The Insulin Mechanism*

Despite insulin being used in medicine for a long time, it is still not fully understood. However people are often misguided on insulin's actions within the body as it is a delivery drug. Its purpose is take sugars from the bloodstream and delivers them to the cells, however it does not put them into the cells. The mechanism is not fully known, however it what is known is that the once delivered a mechanism takes place which allows the cell to open and take the sugars of which Chromium & Vanadium are highly important in this mechanism. Often, by increasing these mineral levels and making changes to the diet people are able to improve or even restore issues with blood sugar levels.

The problem when taking too much insulin for medical or bodybuilding purposes is that insulin will eventually start to destroy the cells. Sustained high insulin levels vastly increase chances of heart attacks, can give high blood pressure and cause varying other illnesses. From a bodybuilding point of view natural and synthetic users will benefit from ensuring that Chromium & Vanadium are not in short supply, not only potentially with improvements to your insulin response but also your health.

*Protein Supplementation - Is it required? *

In my honest opinion, no, nor is excessive protein consumption. I simply believe in eating wholesome food and including some form of meat, egg or dairy with most of those meals. Obviously you need protein, but I have been able to grow to and maintain a large physique on less that 200mg a day. To be fair, like anything else I do not count it, I just eat real food, some days I will eat more some days I will eat less.

In my youth I would consume protein shakes, bars and other related supplements, but just like my flex magazines I threw these out of the window and started by following golden era diet methods which focused on whole foods. Arnold's era produced some of the best body builders to ever walk this planet, they had no fancy supplements or bull s**t diet regimes, they had real food and a handful of quality steroids, from this a made changes for it to suit me best. There is a possible place for whey isolates after training when GH is used with insulin (which I will talk about this another tome) but beyond that I would always advocate food. I have heard all sorts of excuses to justify shakes over food, most of which are bullshit.

My food staples are free range eggs (from a farm or someone who does it from their home), cheeses, milks, yoghurt, chicken, pork and some cured meats. I do like to vary things so I do eat other things like beef, duck, fish etc, but these are more when I eat out or get a take out.

*More soon...*


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

did you say you ran superdrol for 18months ? Surely that cant be healthy ?


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> did you say you ran superdrol for 18months ? Surely that cant be healthy ?


Yes I did, I had no problems. I pay attention to my kidneys especially and would advise regular checks, although I do admit I am 2 years late on my annual blood work. I would agree that it is certainly not likely to support health being on that long, but I do think that how harsh it is claimed to be is grossly over rated. I heard the same about Trenbolone and yet I and many others have done that for significant periods of time.


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

Good posts. Keep it up


----------



## dmull86 (Sep 28, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Sorry I quoted the wrong person. Vitamins come in different types and some are better absorbed than others, however you do not need to pay a fortune to have something effective. What I do is buy a multivitamin powder which has 33 vitamins in it and take around 1.5-2.0g of it each morning. I supplement vitamin C at 0.5g a day (just have these with some quality jam in natural full fat yogurt) I then take one 650mg trace mineral complex capsule each day and also have a drop of liquid molybdenum and Lugo's iodine (15%) a couple times a week. The whole lot does me and my family for about £100 a year, obviously doses for women and children are less. The only other thing I take is Cod liver oil and have around 5-10ml each day, this costs about £8 every 5-6 weeks. Just one thing to point out, taking iodine and vitamin c together is not advised as there is a concern that they can affect one another effecting how much you actually take in, so best to take them at different times of day.
> 
> The take a lot higher RDA with the multivitamin and vitamin c. I will keep it short but because the way that body removes toxins and the stresses that the body is under from modern day environmental factors which I will explain in the next post, I believe the the RDA's of some are completely wrong for the modern world. There are quite a lot of people who support this as well, plus remember the RDA is aimed the the minimum required for someone who is quite small as the studies where done as much as 50 years ago. As a body builder, fitness athlete, sports person etc you will need a lot more as you lose more vitamins in minerals through exercise and sweating.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the detailed reply. Cheers


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I posted a few overr there and realised it was not the best place to do it, what is your point?


my point is you have signed up to three seperate forums in the same week and started being very nice, hell you have even convinced the guys on the other site to make you a mod.

Wont that allow you a lot of backstage action.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Alien8ed&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=qvZIVpG9LIveUabQl6gC


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Hey OP, why the odd username?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

http://www.affiliatefix.com/search/1383131/



Quote said:


> BuySellAds is not a PPV traffic platform my friend
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Quote said:


> Thank you very much for the great suggestion, I have been in the domain industry for more than 8 years + 2 years in digital marketing and I didn't knew of the existence of this tool
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Nice thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


alien8ed, Jun 16, 2015



Quote said:


> Yes, if you direct link to an offer someone bidding on a string from the affiliate link may steals your traffic, and, if you decide to use a landing page people that "SELF-TARGET" the offer will also pop on the offer after you and your cookie will be overwritten
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

So what's the results of 15 years of liftting and knowledge ??

No pictures up yet??


----------



## Gary29 (Aug 21, 2011)

I'll piss myself if he does put a sneaky thread up trying to sell multi vits!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Gary29 said:


> I'll piss myself if he does put a sneaky thread up trying to sell multi vits!


Its more likely harvesting data


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> my point is you have signed up to three seperate forums in the same week and started being very nice, hell you have even convinced the guys on the other site to make you a mod.
> 
> Wont that allow you a lot of backdoor action.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> So what's the results of 15 years of liftting and knowledge ??
> 
> No pictures up yet??


I have a feeling hes gone now.


----------



## Dieseldave (Jul 8, 2013)

For the technologically slower folk out there can anyone explain what just happened?

I was just about to comment showing the man some appreciation but I get the feeling he's now up to something?


----------



## Irondan (Nov 23, 2014)

Dieseldave said:


> For the technologically slower folk out there can anyone explain what just happened?
> 
> I was just about to comment showing the man some appreciation but I get the feeling he's now up to something?


Agreed


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dieseldave said:


> For the technologically slower folk out there can anyone explain what just happened?
> 
> I was just about to comment showing the man some appreciation but I get the feeling he's now up to something?


hes a clever guy, I don't think hes a bodybuilder though.


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## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

Wah gwan?!

Where can I buy his super duper multi vits?!?!?!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

RexEverthing said:


> Wah gwan?!
> 
> Where can I buy his super duper multi vits?!?!?!


He doesn't have vits, read the thread.


----------



## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> He doesn't have vits, read the thread.


Oh yeah, my bad.

So where can I buy his training plan?


----------



## FuqOutDaWhey (Apr 29, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> be fair, like anything else I do not count it, I just eat real food, some days I will eat more some days I will eat less.


@banzi he sounds like you

Trolling level - jedi


----------



## Gnats Chuff (Oct 27, 2015)

Right so what's going on?


----------



## FelonE1 (Dec 23, 2013)

BrahmaBull said:


> @banzi he sounds like you
> 
> Trolling level - jedi


He's not at that level yet


----------



## NoGutsNoGlory (Jun 11, 2009)




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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Gnats Chuff said:


> Right so what's going on?


Guys a computer expert spamming webistes with relevant information to catch the eye of the gullible.

He hasnt wrote anything you cant find anywhere else.

Hes on multiple sites with the same tosh hoping to get a backstage pass to harvest information.


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## Jing Lee (Nov 16, 2015)

a bit lengthy though


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## Gnats Chuff (Oct 27, 2015)

banzi said:


> Guys a computer expert spamming webistes with relevant information to catch the eye of the gullible.
> 
> He hasnt wrote anything you cant find anywhere else.
> 
> Hes on multiple sites with the same tosh hoping to get a backstage pass to harvest information.


Ahhh! As soon as talk gets tech, I get lost.


----------



## unleashhell (Aug 15, 2014)

banzi said:


> Guys a computer expert spamming webistes with relevant information to catch the eye of the gullible.
> 
> He hasnt wrote anything you cant find anywhere else.
> 
> Hes on multiple sites with the same tosh hoping to get a backstage pass to harvest information.


you're smarter than you look in your photo


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

To be honest I have read his posts and will prob save it somewhere and inwardly digest it, regardless of whether you can find it elsewhere I will happily take a lump of information in one place and read it  so thanks to the slightly strange op, keep posting by all means, but I won't be buying anything in afraid...


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> my point is you have signed up to three seperate forums in the same week and started being very nice, hell you have even convinced the guys on the other site to make you a mod.
> 
> Wont that allow you a lot of backstage action.


A mod? I not a mod anywhere, not sure where you got that from?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Agreed


Well I think you will be disapointed if you are looking for something other that what I post. I will post up the next part shortly.. I am busy in the week and sometimes do not have time.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> To be honest I have read his posts and will prob save it somewhere and inwardly digest it, regardless of whether you can find it elsewhere I will happily take a lump of information in one place and read it  so thanks to the slightly strange op, keep posting by all means, but I won't be buying anything in afraid...


Not got anything to sell, but I will post more for you to read.


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## alekan (Oct 19, 2014)

tl;dr


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Not got anything to sell, but I will post more for you to read whilst I try and harvest data and info.


fixed


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## Irondan (Nov 23, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Not got anything to sell, but I will post more for you to read.


Thought you had left, looking forward to your next posts.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> fixed


Paranoia


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

> I'm a fvcking grass.


Caught him lads!


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## Gnats Chuff (Oct 27, 2015)

banzi said:


> fixed


How would he be able to harvest data through posting in a thread?

I'm genuinely clueless about these things.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Gnats Chuff said:


> How would he be able to harvest data through posting in a thread?
> 
> I'm genuinely clueless about these things.


Guys up to something, not sure what.


----------



## spikedmini (May 6, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Not got anything to sell, but I will post more for you to read.


Keep posting its informative for alot of people, stop adding fuel to the fire you will just get burnt and feed the people who are trolling you , stick to what you made the post about.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Next one:

*Fat Burners - Not Needed*

You do not need fat burners to get in shape. The more fat you have to begin with and/or the less muscle mass you have, the longer it will take for to give the appearance of looking in shape. Do not underestimate how water can be stored in the body can soften a physique! Someone with a reasonably low body fat can look smooth by having carrying much water from things such as hormones and crap in the diet.

In the early years I used to take all sorts of drugs to burn fat as I was soft and porky. I used ephedrine based products like T5 and other drugs such as T4, T3, Clenbuterol and what ever else I could get my hands on. The truth was that I was using these to try and compensate for poor diet, a poor misunderstanding of the drugs that I used and the lack of maturity in my physique. With time being #on the right drugs and really learning about diet such as what is in those foods, how those things effect me, what is not good for me, I was able to make some rather drastic changes. Yes it took time, but now and for many years. I have never need to use fat burners as I am never far out of very good shape. I learned that through consistency of the right steroids and at what ratios to one another give me the best look. After this I learned how to do it with other steroids and then progressed onto GH which allowed me to be bigger, dryer, leaner and look more impressive (whilst on).

All fat burners do is speed things up by cranking up your metabolism, they work in different ways but ultimately should it be thermogenic or increasing protein synthesis, they ultimately cause you to burn more calories each day. They work the best in combination, so by using one that increases protein synthesis such as the thyroid medications (T3/T4) with a product like Clenbuterol or a Ephedrine containing product you will speed up how fast your body is able to burn through calories.

T3/T4 is the most potent, but for me it always made me eat more. If I didn't eat more I would end up flat and looking weak. Initially I found it hard to maintain a steady look, always having to graze so what is the point in that, when your trying to get in shape? Clenbuterol works well, especially if alternated with Ephedrine every couple of weeks. When I was young I didn't mind feeling "stimmed up", but as I got older it made me uncomfortable, short tempered and jittery. The truth why I took these and why others do (non-competitively) is because people are too impatient to take time to build a quality physique. This was true for me in my youth and I see it in the majority of the people today, no one wants to wait for anything, they want everything yesterday. Even with competitive bodybuilding, I still see no need for it for fat loss. Most guys use these drugs throughout their prep to rush their prep because they started too late or didn't want to take the time. If you take sufficient doses of quality Trenbolone and/or Halo and GH you will get in shape, even with a relaxed diet! Add to this the right drugs to bring out your best look and the job done. With prep it is the last couple of weeks where extra products come in handy to dry out the skin and dial in.

If you put the right drug products in, keep them in and eat good food steadily the results will come. That does not mean eat boiled chicken, rice, tuna and other boring "clean" meals. Why the hell do people feel like they need to eat this to get into shape? Granted, when competing, the last number of weeks this can help, but to you can have a lean, defined physique that looks strong by still eating food with taste. You simply need to understand the food you eat and eat what nature intended without over eating.

*How I achieve my best look*

This combination below is what makes me look my best:

Trenbolone or even Halo
Masteron/Proviron
EQ
Superdrol
Aromasin
HGH

Without the GH the same steroid combination works very well, but I will not lie, a quality GH dosed and taken correctly brings a whole new dimension to my physique. For those who have used GH, you will know what I am on about. I do not want to get into my personal doses because it is easy for people to take this wrong and start over dosing. The reality is beyond an optimal dose you will have vastly diminishing returns and potentially even bring about issues from side effects. I have overused steroids for lengthy periods. I found out that I was taking too much and that I could still make gains on a lower dose by mistake. I was focusing on other tasks at the time, training 7-8 times a month and being lazy with injections which I did for over a year. I still managed to gain 7lbs of clean solid weight with little effort what so ever and was using about 1/3 as much. Do not get me wrong, if you are not using enough you will not make the gains, so do not think that small doses will turn you into a bit guy, but also do not be fooled into thinking that bigger doses always leads to faster gains. Aim to get optimal.


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## dangedan (Oct 26, 2015)

not a bad read tbh, could of gone into detail with your training and diet more though I thought


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dangedan said:


> not a bad read tbh, could of gone into detail with your training and diet more though I thought


dont worry, the punchline will be along soon.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> not a bad read tbh, could of gone into detail with your training and diet more though I thought


I will do, just keep looking through the pages as I add to it periodically and try to do a few topics at a time.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I will do, just keep looking through the pages as I add to it periodically and try to do a few topics at a time.


http://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/what-i-have-learned-over-15-years-use-amp-lifting-alien8ed-38806.html

Dont forget to keep those guys in the loop.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> http://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/what-i-have-learned-over-15-years-use-amp-lifting-alien8ed-38806.html
> 
> Dont forget to keep those guys in the loop.


All the posts are modded initially. It is very slow to get going, hence why I have not updated it yet. When I got several more topics I may add them all at once, however I would rather just keep it on one forum.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> All the posts are modded initially. It is very slow to get going, hence why I have not updated it yet. When I got several more topics I may add them all at once, however I would rather just keep it on one forum.


You are unusually polite bearing in mind you are a heavy steroid user.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*My Typical Daily Diet*

My meals vary day to day, but generally I follow a set routine/structure. These can vary from time to time as at times I like to reduce grains and use more fats, however I will try cover it and keep it simple.

Breakfast:

This is my most consistent meal. A couple times a month I will have a full English in addition to or in place of my regular routine.

Full fat Greek yoghurt with a good quality jam or real honey and my vitamins and minerals.
Whole un-homogenised milk as a banana milk shake with cold liver oil
Some some fruit as well

Lunch (No less than 4 hours later):

Sometimes I skip this once or twice a week, even when gaining, other times I will not skip for two weeks just depends how I feel. I like irregular fasting periods used lightly, I have found it to be good for the body, especially the teeth and keeping a good metabolism.

The rest of the time it is varied, sometimes a sandwich, cheese with cured meat, cured meat with a yoghurt, bread and cheese, what ever I put together really and at other times I have a bit of crap like a bag of chips or a burger. If it is my day off from work then I might have a full English (some times I go the cafe, others I make my own) or may I eat out. It varies a lot.

Dinner:

This is always a meaty dish, always home made by my parter. I usually have a soup to start followed by a meal. At the moment I am eating more fat to cut grains out for a couple weeks, however usually it will be some form of meat cooked with some vegetables, rice or cous cous and a sauce/dressing. This meal can vary a lot, it can go from a home cooked lasagne one day to rice and veggies with chicken in varying sauces/seasoning the next. I walk through the door and I get fed, rarely do I not enjoy what I eat.

Before bed:

Some times I have some chocolate, some times I have something like Fruit Pastels, other times I have cheese. I just mix it up and go on feel. Some periods I restrict chocolate and that short of stuff and stick to cheese and yoghurt, other times I spend a couple weeks eating ice cream, doughnuts and other goodies. Some nights I have a one or two beers/ciders, but do my best to restrict this, although I have spells of stress from my job as of recent years and at times I drink more often than I should. In years gone by I could go months without a drop. Please note, I do not drink to get drunk, I do not like being drunk. I like the taste of a beer or cider and like the relaxing effect of a couple.

That is pretty much it. Once a week, sometimes twice I eat out or get a take out. When I do eat out might only have two meals and something sweet later as I like to fill my boots. Again very varied when we go out, but we also like kebabs and pizza as much as anyone else so this is what we usually get if we are staying in. The only thing that really changes diet wise is when I want to be more cut, I simply back on the goodies on an evening and stick to more cheese and meats and try skip lunch twice a week. The drug protocol changes mostly by increasing/introducing Trenbolone or Halo and the changes come about very quickly. When taking GH I do the same with my steroids, except I eat more food in general (bigger meals), plus I eat more simple sugars and other carbs as I look better for it.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> You are unusually polite bearing in mind you are a heavy steroid user.


If you tell yourself steroids make you aggressive, unpleasant, arrogant etc then you find yourself being more of each. I always try to be polite, calm and reasonable and steroids have had no negative impact on this as a man. When I was a young guy it was different, but I was immature and less able to control my impulses.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> If you tell yourself steroids make you aggressive, unpleasant, arrogant etc then you find yourself being more of each. I always try to be polite, calm and reasonable and steroids have had no impact on this as a man. When I was a young guy it was different, but I was immature and less able to control my impulses.


You are aware you are going to have to post pics at some point to gain any credibility

All this well written waffle is nice but really its nothing anyone cant find themselves with a Google search.

No amazing revelations to be had Im afraid, its because there are none.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> You are aware you are going to have to post pics at some point to gain any credibility
> 
> All this well written waffle is nice but really its nothing anyone cant find themselves with a Google search.
> 
> No amazing revelations to be had Im afraid, its because there are none.


There are ot amazing revelations in bodybuilding, all that is just hype. Mostly bodybuilding is withheld knowledge and frustration finding it out. Sure we can all blow out on insulin & GH but you know as well as me, if it was that easy we would all be 300lb shredded under 6ft in no time. Every now and again comes about a better way of doing something, or something that works well, but ultimately it is a slow game that many people fail to get right for a long time or if at all or people simply fail to accept the truths and never get anywhere close to what they are happy with. My goal is very simple, waffle as you put it and give people my experiences and hopefully some will take it in and learn from some of what I have to say and better themselves. With some luck this will save the time and efforts of some and even maybe help someone a bit more experienced. There are few people that I have helped on a person basis that have not taken something away from what I have said, usually most people are lacking somewhere. When you are experienced and/or when you have had someone to pass on this knowledge, it is easy to take it for granted, however many do not.


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> *You are aware you are going to have to post pics at some point to gain any credibility*
> 
> All this well written waffle is nice but really its nothing anyone cant find themselves with a Google search.
> 
> No amazing revelations to be had Im afraid, its because there are none.


I agree he has an ulterior motive yet to come to light, but why is this relevant? Tbf the information is on point (almost).

Just gotta wait and see what comes next...


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> I agree he has an ulterior motive yet to come to light, but why is this relevant? Tbf the information is on point (almost).
> 
> Just gotta wait and see what comes next...


If you do not mind me asking, what information do you feel is not on point/that you have a different view?


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> If you do not mind me asking, what information do you feel is not on point/that you have a different view?


i haven't got time to go through it all as there is a lot of information, but small things that are proven outdated such a meal frequency (you mention how you make sure to eat not less than 4 hours after breakfast etc - this is proven irrelevant provided total daily needs are met).

On the whole, it is great. However, I agree you're too well spoken and something doesn't seem quite right but heyho, you are helping a lot of people so carry on!


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## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

Drogon said:


> i haven't got time to go through it all as there is a lot of information, but small things that are proven outdated such a meal frequency (you mention how you make sure to eat not less than 4 hours after breakfast etc - this is proven irrelevant provided total daily needs are met).


Yeah, was that study done on people running heavy doses of AAS? Total daily needs... Every forum nowadays is full of kids vomiting the stuff they've read or heard somewhere about iifym, kcal in vs kcal out, meal frequency etc without really knowing what the heck they're talking about. Not arguing against it but I believe it can be more complicated than that. Especially when drugs are involved. I posted something earlier about putting on fat more easily with higher dietary fat intake and a big kcal surplus on certain drugs (maybe natty too), and nobody called me out on it.

To OP: Good read. Interested in hearing more about your thoughts on HGH. I'm thinking about starting. You also mentioned that growth brings a desirable/addictive look to ones physique. Wouldn't you just be puffy and watery when on?

You also said you stay on high doses of AAS for prolonged periods. I take it you don't believe in drugs being more effective if you cruise on a lower dose from time to time? Receptor recovery or whatnot.

Wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on test to other AAS ratio in a cycle (tren and libido is on my mind).


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

iamyou said:


> Yeah, was that study done on people running heavy doses of AAS? Total daily needs... Every forum nowadays is full of kids vomiting the stuff they've read or heard somewhere about iifym, kcal in vs kcal out, meal frequency etc without really knowing what the heck they're talking about. Not arguing against it but I believe it can be more complicated than that. Especially when drugs are involved. I posted something earlier about putting on fat more easily with higher dietary fat intake and a* big kcal surplus* on certain drugs (maybe natty too), and nobody called me out on it.
> 
> To OP: Good read. Interested in hearing more about your thoughts on HGH. I'm thinking about starting. You also mentioned that growth brings a desirable/addictive look to ones physique. Wouldn't you just be puffy and watery when on?
> 
> ...


well dur you're in a big cal surplus and surprised you're putting on fat? Seriously....

you can't even begin to debate with people like you because I can already tell you'll never accept you're wrong (and are so passive aggressive) lel.

do whatever works for you


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> well dur you're in a big cal surplus and surprised you're putting on fat? Seriously....
> 
> you can't even begin to debate with people like you because I can already tell you'll never accept you're wrong (*and are so passive aggressive*) lel.
> 
> do whatever works for you


subtle, nice work sir.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> i haven't got time to go through it all as there is a lot of information, but small things that are proven outdated such a meal frequency (you mention how you make sure to eat not less than 4 hours after breakfast etc - this is proven irrelevant provided total daily needs are met).
> 
> On the whole, it is great. However, I agree you're too well spoken and something doesn't seem quite right but heyho, you are helping a lot of people so carry on!


This is my fault, I was leaving this vague as I was going to cover it shortly. The reason I eat no less that 4 hours is not because of calories etc, but because of phytic acid in foods which can block the absorption of some of the minerals I take in the morning. I like to ensure my body has had a reasonable time to get the nutrients in. If I do not consume any food containing phytic acid then it does not matter, I will just eat when ever. I totally agree with you that from a calorie point of view it is total irrelevant on when you eat.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> This is my fault, I was leaving this vague as I was going to cover it shortly. The reason I eat no less that 4 hours is not because of calories etc, but because of phytic acid in foods which can block the absorption of some of the minerals I take in the morning. *I like to ensure my body has had a reasonable time to get the nutrients in. If I do not consume any food containing phytic acid then it does not matter, I will just eat when ever.* I totally agree with you that from a calorie point of view it is total irrelevant on when you eat.


Yes, always be aware of your "phytic acid window" guys, its vital to optimal muscle growth.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Yeah, was that study done on people running heavy doses of AAS? Total daily needs... Every forum nowadays is full of kids vomiting the stuff they've read or heard somewhere about iifym, kcal in vs kcal out, meal frequency etc without really knowing what the heck they're talking about. Not arguing against it but I believe it can be more complicated than that. Especially when drugs are involved. I posted something earlier about putting on fat more easily with higher dietary fat intake and a big kcal surplus on certain drugs (maybe natty too), and nobody called me out on it.
> 
> To OP: Good read. Interested in hearing more about your thoughts on HGH. I'm thinking about starting. You also mentioned that growth brings a desirable/addictive look to ones physique. Wouldn't you just be puffy and watery when on?
> 
> ...


Hello,

To the first question, I believe you are asking me about being puffy/watery whilst on HGH? If so, it all depends on the quality of the GH you use. If you use a good quality HGH it will be a very dry and hard look. Sadly a lot of GH is not actually that or very poor quality, hence why people report awful bloating. I always bloat some initially with high quality GH (at sufficient doses), it will usually last around 5 days, but then the subsides and it give me that extra volume in my muscles and a more defined look look. Again, brand to brand this will vary slightly, some give you a dryer look than others, the exact reasons why I do not know. A good GH will show you quickly how manipulating water in the body can completely change a persons look.

I am always on, but yes my doses do vary. In years gone by I used to use several grams for months on end and then drop down for a couple weeks I was sick of injecting and mentally fatigued mostly .I do believe that reducing doses for periods allows for better progression at a later date, should this be from receptor sensitivity or not I am not sure. I would say it is certainly noticeable from a practical point of view that reducing allows for faster gains at a later date it is noticeable. Nowadays I tend to be more consistent and just alternate slightly with what I use and I still make some gains just it is slower, however I do intend at some point soon to bump up again and push for some extra lean mass. One thing to point out are steroids create an optical illusion like GH does, just not to the same magnitude. So for example if I was to put Trenbolone back in now and made a few minor changes to the rest of my stack my weight would stay similar but I would appear bigger but in reality I have just manipulated my body to look more defined. This is the illusion of looking bigger, but really no size has been gained, just your shape and lines give the illusion of more size.

Well firstly libido can have a lot to do with oestrogen, if it goes too low then you will often have libido problems. Personally, I have a low libido anyway, regardless of how I control my oestrogen or how much Testosterone I take and have done for many years. I do not mind it, it gives me clarity of mind as my dick does not force my judgement. From a science point of view functioning should easily be provided by 200mg of Testosterone a week so long as you do not destroy oestrogen levels in your body, as this dose is often a lot more than what most blokes will produce, even when youthful. All I would say is things that destroy oestrogen conversion like Aromasin might not be the best for you in terms of sexual function if you are sensitive to it. Something that blocks oestrogen may be better for that purpose, but you may compromise on your look as a result. However, if you are like me regardless what you use in what combination any sexual increase is only a temporary feature and after a few weeks I revert back to my usual self as my body balances out. Some would cry at the thought of that, but I have to be honest it really does not bother me. I did a lot of other things when I was in my youth that have probably contributed to this also in a mental way.

From a look point of view, if you are sensitive to oestrogen then I would question why run too much Testosterone with Trenbolone as there are better alternatives that will produce volume without as much bloat (Superdrol, Androl, Deca etc). If you are not sensitive to oestrogen and tolerate Testosterone at good doses without the need for controls, then by all means go for it at higher doses. I will point out though, that in my experience, I find these people to be a minority and most people who use higher amounts of Testosterone use a lot of controls. This high Testosterone culture is American and I do not feel that it is the always the best way. I know of guys who have gotten to large sizes and in good condition without using much Testosterone at all.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Hello,
> 
> To the first question, I believe you are asking me about being puffy/watery whilst on HGH? If so, it all depends on the quality of the GH you use. If you use a good quality HGH it will be a very dry and hard look. Sadly a lot of GH is not actually that or very poor quality, hence why people report awful bloating. I always bloat some initially with high quality GH (at sufficient doses), it will usually last around 5 days, but then the subsides and it give me that extra volume in my muscles and a more defined look look. Again, brand to brand this will vary slightly, some give you a dryer look than others, the exact reasons why I do not know. A good GH will show you quickly how manipulating water in the body can completely change a persons look.
> 
> ...


(hes not selling test)


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## alekan (Oct 19, 2014)

You're either an insanely fast typer or you have them ready from before. The answers to the "questions" I mean.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Just typed it, touch type so I have no problem replying in detail when I am here, but now I am off to do some work.

Phytic acid is not about growth but more about effecting health from blocking essential minerals, which in particular effects the teeth. That is the reason why I do it.


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## RexEverthing (Apr 4, 2014)

Still no pics of physique?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

RexEverthing said:


> Still no pics of physique?


or teeth.

His problem is that his pics will never live up to the persona he has created with his posts, hes this super efficient muscle building machine who is dosed up year round on multiple grams of gear.

I have a picture of a prime Jay Cutler in my mind if his posts are to be taken seriously.


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## Colin (Sep 28, 2015)

Out of interest @Alien8ed if you don't want to post pictures, whats your stats? I.e Height LBM approximately etc, to figure out if you are at an elite level or the more above average gym goer like most on here.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Colin said:


> Out of interest @Alien8ed if you don't want to post pictures, whats your stats? I.e Height LBM approximately etc, to figure out if you are at an elite level or the more above average gym goer like most on here.


stand by for some awesome stats........


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## dmull86 (Sep 28, 2014)

banzi said:


> (hes not selling test)


I gt the feeling you don like alien8ted. It seems he is giving out information instead of harvesting it. I like the post ls very informative. I do agree he seems almost to nice. Mabyn he is a machine ( literally ). And skynet has finally happened and it is almost judgement day. I don't know but


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## Leetflex (Jan 9, 2014)

Pics at your best or cant take you serious because you sound like another HIT jedi (whom also never have pics) with their bodypart every 10 days routine when science shows protein synthesis drops after 42h to baseline.

SO THEREFORE POST PICS.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dmull86 said:


> I gt the feeling you don like alien8ted. It seems he is giving out information instead of harvesting it. I like the post ls very informative. I do agree he seems almost to nice. Mabyn he is a machine ( literally ). And skynet has finally happened and it is almost judgement day. I don't know but


Its probably Steven Hawkins trolling the board.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

dmull86 said:


> I gt the feeling you don like alien8ted. It seems he is giving out information instead of harvesting it. I like the post ls very informative. I do agree he seems almost to nice. Mabyn he is a machine ( literally ). And skynet has finally happened and it is almost judgement day. I don't know but


prototype artificial intelligence? Computer set to post here as a testing ground, a turing test, as it learns, maybe an oxbridge project

Or someone being helpful. And resisting the urge to snap at banzi

Must be machine.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> prototype artificial intelligence? Computer set to post here as a testing ground, a turing test, as it learns, maybe an oxbridge project
> 
> Or someone being helpful. *And resisting the urge to snap at banzi *
> 
> Must be machine.


its only a matter of time


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Alien man, why do you use GH instead of Peptides?

Is GH 'better' ?

Short answer please.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> its only a matter of time


I don't think that there's many on here who at some time (or all the time for some) have not wanted to call you a very rude word indeed


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> I don't think that there's many on here who at some time (or all the time for some) have not wanted to call you a very rude word indeed


words dont hurt.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> words dont hurt.


maybe you haven't heard the right ones yet


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> maybe you haven't heard the right ones yet


believe me, I have been trolling a long time, I have had death threats FFS.

I have had people offereing money to find out where I live

Interwebz is serious bidness for some.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> believe me, I have been trolling a long time, I have had death threats FFS.
> 
> I have had people offereing money to find out where I live
> 
> Trolling Interwebz is serious bizness for me.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

What the hell did you do to earn a death threat though? Thats got to be jedi level trolling!


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

> believe me, I have been trolling a long time, I have had death threats FFS.
> 
> *I have had people offereing money to find out where I live*
> 
> Interwebz is serious bidness for some.


Hahaha..You are one hell of crazy thing. I mean how the f**k it happened?. A born quality or you developed it?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> What the hell did you do to earn a death threat though? Thats got to be jedi level trolling!


It was David Ickes forum, I used to troll the "freeman on the land" section, i got banned about 50 times, I eventually destroyed Rob Menard (Google him), he is a self styled Freeman, I trolled him so hard he got banned.


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> It was David Ickes forum, I used to troll the "freeman on the land" section, i got banned about 50 times, I eventually destroyed Rob Menard (Google him), he is a self styled Freeman, I trolled him so hard he got banned.


You know what has been bugging me for a while Banzi, is why you worked in bakery when you are relatively intelligent, so to speak.

Can you spare two seconds to enlighten me, so that I may enjoy my weekend.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> It was David Ickes forum, I used to troll the *"freeman on the land" *section, i got banned about 50 times, I eventually destroyed Rob Menard (Google him), he is a self styled Freeman, I trolled him so hard he got banned.


What the hell is wrong with these people. I have met some in real life, I am always left speechless and shaking my head.

If anyone deserves trolling its those freaks.

Therealjargonbuster...?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> You know what has been bugging me for a while Banzi, is why you worked in bakery when you are relatively intelligent, so to speak.
> 
> Can you spare two seconds to enlighten me, so that I may enjoy my weekend.


I have gotten wiser with age.

Plus it was good money at the bakery at the time.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> What the hell is wrong with these people. I have met some in real life, I am always left speechless and shaking my head.
> 
> If anyone deserves trolling its those freaks.
> 
> Therealjargonbuster...?


hahah. that was Rob Menard using my Jargon Buster name in vain.

I was Jargon Buster on Lawful Rebellion website and Asky on Ikes.


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## LRB (Jan 26, 2015)

Good informative post for those that enjoy to read experiences of others. Thanks OP

Keep them flowing, if some people think is too much to read clearly they dont have to read it lol


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

LRB said:


> Good informative post for those that enjoy to read experiences of others. Thanks OP
> 
> Keep them flowing, if some people think is too much to read clearly they dont have to read it lol


TLDNR


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## SwollNP (Oct 8, 2014)

banzi has ruined this thread, what a d1ck


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> I have gotten wiser with age.
> 
> Plus it was good money at the bakery at the time.


Wiser and uglier, like a pair of scales life isn't it.

A simpler answer then I hoped for, but makes sense. :thumb:


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

SwollNP said:


> banzi has ruined this thread, what a d1ck


Have you not been here very long?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

SwollNP said:


> banzi has ruined this thread, what a d1ck


Lighten up, it should be in the advanced bodybuilding section if anywhere, I wouldnt have even seen it in there.


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## RUDESTEW (Mar 28, 2015)

Car tax ran out .......... Better get twelve months just in case


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Out of interest @Alien8ed if you don't want to post pictures, whats your stats? I.e Height LBM approximately etc, to figure out if you are at an elite level or the more above average gym goer like most on here.


Currently 240lb, 5,10ft sit around 7-8%, no growth, no slin, modest amounts of steroids now for around a year.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Alien man, why do you use GH instead of Peptides?
> 
> Is GH 'better' ?
> 
> Short answer please.


Not used peptides in over 4 years, so maybe something new has come out that I am not aware about, but putting it bluntly a quality GH is much better. I do not rate these GH stimulating peptides in the slightest, however I do know of some guys who spend quite a bit of money on them.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Currently 240lb, 5,10ft sit around 7-8%, no growth, no slin, modest amounts of steroids now for around a year.


World class stats, low doses.

Amazing how big dose advocates always take low doses to look their best.

Tell us, what were your best ever stats?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> World class stats, low doses.
> 
> Amazing how big dose advocates always take low doses to look their best.
> 
> Tell us, what were your best ever stats?


No, I have took large doses to get here for long periods. My point is simple that not need to use large amounts to maintain, which I found out through being lazy mostly. With slin & GH combined you can add 15-20lbs to that figure in a relatively short period but again a lot of that is well placed water. With steroids alone I am not sure how far I could take it to be fair as I have not tried, however I expect a few more pounds with some time and commitment to a regime. We are not talking stage conditioning here, obviously it would be less be time you got down to low singles with BF and dried out, but I am not interested in prepping like that any more.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> No, I have took large doses to get here for long periods. My point is simple that not need to use large amounts to maintain, which I found out through being lazy mostly. With slin & GH combined you can add 15-20lbs to that figure in a relatively short period but again a lot of that is well placed water. With steroids alone I am not sure how far I could take it to be fair as I have not tried, however I expect a few more pounds with some time and commitment to a regime. We are not talking stage conditioning here, obviously it would be less be time you got down to low singles with BF and dried out, but I am not interested in prepping like that any more.


7/8% is stage condition for some.

Interesting that you seem to believe you can maintain the mass you gained on large doses with small doses, that may get people asking questions here.

Tell me, what condition and stats did you attain when you competed?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I would question 7/8% being a worthy stage condition, but no doubt many have attended in such condition. If you are talking stage condition then it is 6% and under, back in the 90's when bodybuilding was in its prime many of those high ranking guys where 4% and under on stage in their prime. I lost interest in modern day bodybuilding as a whole it has become about numbers on the scale and not actual quality on stage.

I did not say small doses, I said modest, I am not pretending you can be 240lbs with 200mg a weeks. But you do not need to take 3000mg to maintain it either. Conditioning is obviously not going to be as good when your running high doses with things like Trenbolone in play than it will be sitting on lower doses, but conditioning and mass are two different things which you will be well aware of if you are an experienced user.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

> It was David Ickes forum, I used to troll the "freeman on the land" section, i got banned about 50 times, I eventually destroyed Rob Menard (Google him), he is a self styled Freeman, I trolled him so hard he got banned.


Did they ban him or did they ban his "person". There's a big difference you know.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

> Its probably *Steven Hawkins* trolling the board.


Is he related to Stephen Hawking?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I would question 7/8% being a worthy stage condition, but no doubt many have attended in such condition. If you are talking stage condition then it is 6% and under, back in the 90's when bodybuilding was in its prime many of those high ranking guys where 4% and under on stage in their prime. I lost interest in modern day bodybuilding as a whole it has become about numbers on the scale and not actual quality on stage.
> 
> I did not say small doses, I said modest, I am not pretending you can be 240lbs with 200mg a weeks. But you do not need to take 3000mg to maintain it either. Conditioning is obviously not going to be as good when your running high doses with things like Trenbolone in play than it will be sitting on lower doses, but conditioning and mass are two different things which you will be well aware of if you are an experienced user.


Now I think you are trolling as well as whatever else you are doing here.

4%, maybe happened once or twice if ever, you do realise the dryer someone is the higher their BF%

You think tren hinders your condition?

Now bearing in mind your thread title refers to your experiences over 15 years why are you referencing bodybuilders in the 90s and trying to infer that was your era?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> Is he related to Stephen Hawking?


its the same guy, he uses Hawkins so you dont know its him.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

EpicSquats said:


> Did they ban him or did they ban his "person". There's a big difference you know.


There is a difference to them, not to the courts and legal system, therein lies their problem.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I never said Trenbolone hinders condition. Far as I am concerned I consider it the back bone of bodybuilding conditioning, however if I was aiming to dial in for a specific point, a few days before that time I would drop it to drop extra water and use more Masteron/Proviron, however that is just how I do things.

All I said was the body builders in the 90's often had good conditioning with many high ranking guys under 4%. How you wish to interpret that is up to you.

I have had this debate many times over body fat percentages and it is running around in circles. The only effective way is hydrostatic weighing all though I do believe you can get a good idea with MRI's nowadays. Calipers have varying methods, all produce different readings and they do not account for fluids. Most people are clueless to what 5,6,7% looks like, at best then have peoples views on the internet. Spend enough time examining hydrostatic weights and you will learn what percentages look like. End of the day you can either take what I am saying or not. What people perceive of me, is up to them, I am not concerned with what anyone thinks of my stats or what I can or can't maintain on what I take as I am providing information not a portfolio. If you want reassurance from accreditation's and a proven track record,go pay a top personal coach thousands. I bet even then you will not get the whole truth out of most of them.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*HGH - My Opinion On The Best Bang For Buck When Looking to Add Size*

There are many varying methods around in regards to using HGH, however I wish to talk about what I believe is the best way to use GH to maximise growth whilst using modestly. I am not claiming to have invented this, however this is a very good way to start HGH once you have spent time building a good physique with steroids. I am not going to kid you, taking more of GH on a regular basis will produce better results, however I understand that most people that read this do not have huge disposable incomes and practical and affordable ways to make gains are key to their development.

Before I get started, unless you are 99.9% sure about your GH source do not bother. I can not begin to tell you how much crap is bottled up and sold as GH. I know that some of you will be inpatient and rushing to get on GH, but you are wasting your hard earned money, time and possible health by buying crap. Pharmaceutical brands are heavily faked as well as generic versions, so do not be fooled just because it looks like GH that it actually is. Take time to find your sources. In my experience it is the private ones that are best overall and the good ones of these are far and few between. Most suppliers are just salesmen and only care about the money. Occasionally you get one that takes pride in his/her products, these are the guys you want to supply you. If your buying products from these mainstream websites then I would be vary wary indeed. I was fortunate to start using steroids when everything sold was mostly pharmaceutical (counterfeits still existed). When you see what real Naposims, Androl, Deca-Durabolin, Sustanon 250, Masteron, Proviron, Primobolan etc does to your physique, then you know very quickly when your injecting junk versions labelled as the same chemical. When you have this type of experience to find legit steroids, then legit growth hormone is often not far away.

Very simple protocol:


I would not do this if I was fat to start with. You can do this chunky but you will look better being lean as you will gain some water weight. Personally if your chunky you got a way to go before you even start doing something like this, but I will leave that to you.
Ensure steroids are present at effective doses and have been for several weeks minimum. Preferably be using effective doses of Trenbolone or Halo included with drugs like Deca, Androl, Testosterone, D.bol, Superdrol etc whilst you do this. Personally I like a good dose of Androl.
Make sure you have had at least one good, balanced meal a couple hours before you train, ideally you have taken any vitamins, minerals etc and have had a decent portion of protein.
Each time you train, 1-2 hour before the gym shoot your GH. Ideally in the excess of 5iu with a good quality generic, little less with pharmaceutical versions. Please note that I only know of one very good generic which produces near pharmaceutical product (Geno like) results. If I was using Geno's then 3iu would be a starting place for this method.
Go to the gym, train
Finish training and eat a meal low in fat (high fat can slow digestion), include a decent amount of protein and make sure there is a decent helping of simple sugars in there.
Shoot fast acting Insulin. Some people like to pop orals here as well, I don't really think it makes a difference if you are using regularly.

In regards to how much insulin, GH and carbs, I would say that most people are going to be in the 8-12g of carbs for every unit of slin, however I have seen people to do more and less, you will need to find out what is best for you. 4-5iu of good quality GH (3-4iu Geno) will be good for around 10 units of insulin, again people may use a little more or less depending on them and again you will need to find out what is best for you.

I would advise you do this 3 times a week or more in time if you train more often. It is not what I would suggest for overall fat loss/conditioning, I would use GH more regularly for this and make changes to my insulin use.

The idea behind it is simple also:


You ensuring that your body has some fuel and nutrients prior which will aid in the process.
You use the GH so the effects are occurring whilst you train
You train to stimulate the muscles so everything starts signalling aiding in the effectiveness of the GH for what you want (growth of tissue)
You shuttle carbs and protein into the areas which are signalling filling the muscles with the things they need to develop.



> That is it, just make sure you get some rest. You can make some good progress with size and without using a lot of insulin which many are wary of doing. I will stress again that do not expect to look as if you would taking multiple doses of GH throughout the day each on a regular basis.


 I would advise that you do not attempt this until you have pushed boundaries with steroids. You are not going to build an Olympian physique on just steroids, but you can still build a bloody good one, especially if you start at a decent age, so do not be fooled into thinking that you can not look good or be a good size without GH.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I never said Trenbolone hinders condition. Far as I am concerned I consider it the back bone of bodybuilding conditioning, however if I was aiming to dial in for a specific point, a few days before that time I would drop it to drop extra water and use more Masteron/Proviron, however that is just how I do things.
> 
> All I said was the body builders in the 90's often had good conditioning with many high ranking guys under 4%. How you wish to interpret that is up to you.
> 
> I have had this debate many times over body fat percentages and it is running around in circles. The only effective way is hydrostatic weighing all though I do believe you can get a good idea with MRI's nowadays. Calipers have varying methods, all produce different readings and they do not account for fluids. Most people are clueless to what 5,6,7% looks like, at best then have peoples views on the internet. Spend enough time examining hydrostatic weights and you will learn what percentages look like. End of the day you can either take what I am saying or not. What people perceive of me, is up to them, I am not concerned with what anyone thinks of my stats or what I can or can't maintain on what I take as I am providing information not a portfolio. If you want reassurance from accreditation's and a proven track record,go pay a top personal coach thousands. I bet even then you will not get the whole truth out of most of them.


Looking at someone isnt an indication of true BF%, take two people with identical actual levels of BF in stage condition and get one of them to eat and smooth out for a couple days, looking at them you would say the smoother guy had higher BF when in fact its actually lower due to a higher weight % of water.

Now, when did you compete?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> *HGH - My Opinion On The Best Bang For Buck When Looking to Add Size*
> 
> There are many varying methods around in regards to using HGH, however I wish to talk about what I believe is the best way to use GH to maximise growth whilst using modestly. I am not claiming to have invented this, however this is a very good way to start HGH once you have spent time building a good physique with steroids. I am not going to kid you, taking more of GH on a regular basis will produce better results, however I understand that most people that read this do not have huge disposable incomes and practical and affordable ways to make gains are key to their development.
> 
> ...


Really?

15 years ago all the genuine gear was around geez mate, the market was flooded with s**t in the early 90s?

And theres the sales pitch.


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## Mikel123 (Feb 14, 2015)

i just read this and think its pretty intresting


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mikel123 said:


> i just read this and think its pretty intresting


thats the point.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Really?
> 
> 15 years ago all the genuine gear was around geez mate, the market was flooded with s**t in the early 90s?
> 
> And theres the sales pitch.


I can't speak for you, but there where plenty of pharmaceutical products at my disposal, sure there where UG labs, but we never took it unless it was EQ or Tren and to be fair, back then they where not what really what many people bothered with, yes Tren for the competitors, but the market was different. Maybe I was just lucky, but myself and many others I knew had access to good products.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I can't speak for you, but there where plenty of pharmaceutical products at my disposal, sure there where UG labs, but we never took it unless it was EQ or Tren as from the start and to be fair, back then they where not what really what people bothered with. Maybe I was just lucky, but myself and many others I knew had access to good products.


Pharmaceutical Tren after 1999?????

Really

The only pharma grade tren was Parabolan that disappeared around 95/96 after being heavily copied









and in case you are wondering I competed in the 80s and 90s, so I know what was around, try and get your dates right.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

You would do better to read what I have said:

*"sure there where UG labs, but we never took it unless it was EQ or Tren*"


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> You would do better to read what I have said:
> 
> *"sure there where UG labs, but we never took it unless it was EQ or Tren*"
> 
> ...


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*Some examples of BF percentages*

Make up your own mind

Males:

6.6% (Thinks he's 10%) 




6.1% 




5.5% 




25.5% (Older guy) 




Females:

14.5% 




16.2%


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> *Some examples of BF percentages*
> 
> Make up your own mind
> 
> ...


Tommy bananas style posting, you forgot to write "Im out"


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Well for a long time that has been considered to be the most accurate way of testing, sure nothing is spot on and now you have some other questionable methods also, but it gives you a pretty good idea. Personally I would take seeing a multitude of hydrostatic weighs (of which I have seen plenty) and looking at the bigger picture over time than the views of people on forums. People can make of it what they want.


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## 0161M (Nov 17, 2015)

Banzi is over 50 years of age, believe it or not


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Banzi is over 50 years of age, believe it or not


It is quite amazing isn't it.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

Subbed


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

I like the thread , you have experience and its well written.

Your pretty much on all the time so what are you using when your on lower doses, are you having blood tests giving blood etc?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> I like the thread , you have experience and its well written.
> 
> Your pretty much on all the time so what are you using when your on lower doses, are you having blood tests giving blood etc?


Hello,

Yes I usually do but I am late this time around, of which I will be getting them done in January. I usually get a lot of things checked, but this time to be honest I am not as concerned other things, although I will get basic panel checked. I am more focused on getting my kidneys and liver checks done thoroughly.

I do not give blood, I have a moral issue with giving tainted blood to others and also a high blood cell count in a normal individual can be an indicator for several things, however it is quite normal in steroid users as long as kidneys are in good health and the heart is not failing.

I like Testosterone and Deca as it is very mild on the body. EQ and Primobolan can be used also, although some get high blood pressure of EQ.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

I wouldn't say Testosterone and Nadrolone are 'very mild' on the body tbh.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

So you're 240lbs with single digit body fat using moderate gear and eat yoghurt and some fruit for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and whatever dinner your missus knocks up?

Seems legit.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> So you're 240lbs with single digit body fat using moderate gear and eat yoghurt and some fruit for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and whatever dinner your missus knocks up?
> 
> Seems legit.


Yes, plus some crap here and there and then end of the day, I like chocolate and ice cream, but I tend to do this more in the summer months most evenings and once or twice in the winter. I like to enjoy the long days of spring//summer, eat out, have some crap, some beers and spend time with my family. In the winter I do not go out that much so I just work more and focus more on my condition. I tend to have cheeses, bananas, eggs, meats etc instead instead of sweet food throughout this period, even Christmas is usually just one day of feasting. I do not really know why I go arse about tit with being in better condition in the winter, I have just always done that.

My dinner is always a good sized portion, but after work I am ready for it.My wife knows me well enough by now and how much to put on my plate. It is a luxury that I have and value, my diet would be a lot worse if I was single as I work long hours. What I eat through the day will vary, if I am hungry I will eat more at times than other but it is hardly excessive, I just like to eat what is enough for me.. As I only train 2-3 times a week my appetite is not hard to control. I mostly train end of the week and that is when eat the more stodgy foods so it works well for me. I ate a whole lot more in the past, but I used to train more, do other high intensity activities and I was younger. As my age and lifestyle changed I had to teach myself to eat less which was hard at first as for as far as I could remember I have always ate a lot of food and had a big appetite, however after a couple months I was fine and now I prefer how I eat as it is easier to cater for, cheaper and I do everything on instinct which means I spend not time thinking about food other than when I am hungry.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> I wouldn't say Testosterone and Nadrolone are 'very mild' on the body tbh.


I have found them to be very mild and well tolerated by my body. Granted you may need oestrogen control with higher doses but that is not what I would be doing here.I am not running high weekly doses of such drugs when I am cycling doses down for a specific purpose the idea is to chill out. Mostly what I aim to do when I reduce doses down is to drop blood pressure (which I do not have high blood pressure any way, but it does increase when running higher doses) and rest the kidneys and liver for a good number of weeks. If anything was out on a blood test I would correct it but as of now I have not had any issues with anything. The steroids I like the most tend to make the urine dark which is what I like to have a break from, it is nice to piss clear.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> I have found them to be very mild and well tolerated by my body. Granted you may need oestrogen control with higher doses but that is not what I would be doing here.I am not running high weekly doses of such drugs when I am cycling doses down for a specific purpose the idea is to chill out. Mostly what I aim to do when I reduce doses down is to drop blood pressure (which I do not have high blood pressure any way, but it does increase when running higher doses) and rest the kidneys and liver for a good number of weeks. If anything was out on a blood test I would correct it but as of now I have not had any issues with anything. The steroids I like the most tend to make the urine dark which is what I like to have a break from, it is nice to piss clear.


I've had gyno off 250mg Test p/w, and have been seriously shutdown off a few hundred mg of Deca on cycle. Sure you can control E2 with AI's and keep the HPTA ticking over with HCG, but if those hormones were as mild on the body as you make out, then there would be no need to be running ancillaries alongside.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Well firstly I never run HCG as I am always on. I never have an issue with oestrogen either because I learned what works for me and how to use it, so where is the ancillaries when I am on a lower dose? I only every use Aromasin as an ancillary any way, which again has nothing to suggest it is dangerous over long term use. Most of the time I use just 50mg a week of it, I never go over 75mg so hardly saturating myself with them! How can something not be mild that is used for years by many, even at higher doses?

Of course you are shut down on Deca or any other steroid that is how they work. Yes it make changes in the body, but what is there to suggest that that is actually harmful to you? There are plenty of people who undergo hormone replacement therapies such as estrogen, testosterone, thyroxine, progesterone etc that have long, healthy, unaffected lives so how how is something not be mild just because you have issues controlling your oestrogen? Have you looked at what things in your body can cause high oestrogen/oestrogen issues, maybe the issues you are having are not just because of use. Just because you are suppressing something with a synthetic version or your body is processing something doesn't mean it is wrecking your body, you body is exposed to all sorts of harmful crap each and every day which without a doubt if you took enough in one go would kill you straight but yet people go on and live many years. I never seen anyone over dose on Deca and be rushed to A&E because they took too much. Just because something has a good anabolic effect does not mean that the negatives are not mild if existent at all.

Steroids, unless used like an idiot, are not going to kill you any time soon. With many diseases/issues they actually help improve and extend life. Yes they effect things but that is far from killing you or even damaging your health.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Steroids increase your RBC so staying on all the time you will need to do something to reduce it, so what's your solution?


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Ok so what are your average doses PW this year for example where you say you have not really pushed it this year?

Most of my fat gains come when i come off the gear even a cruise, always sneaks on which effective take me backwards as i have to pull it back by cutting, its far easier to stay lean on gear i have had little time off this year for the first time i will admit, a friend has been on gear 15-20 years maybe more without a break, he's not a picture of health by the way, always big always lean but has a red face which is probably due to high HCT.

Surely without coming off or giving blood your HCT and other things must be elevated giving you a red face or not heart healthy?


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

> Steroids increase your RBC so staying on all the time you will need to do something to reduce it, so what's your solution?


Beat me to it lol


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Dead lee said:


> Beat me to it lol


my bp is through the roof and my rbc is sky high on less than 250mgs test a week and I'm on bp meds

be interesting to see what this guys is


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## barksie (Nov 23, 2014)

> my bp is through the roof and my rbc is sky high on less than 250mgs test a week and I'm on bp meds
> 
> be interesting to see what this guys is


careful there banzi, my wife got kidney failure through high blood pressure, keep an eye on it


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

Dead lee said:


> Ok so what are your average doses PW this year for example where you say you have not really pushed it this year?
> 
> Most of my fat gains come when i come off the gear even a cruise, always sneaks on which effective take me backwards as i have to pull it back by cutting, its far easier to stay lean on gear i have had little time off this year for the first time i will admit, a friend has been on gear 15-20 years maybe more without a break, he's not a picture of health by the way, always big always lean but has a red face which is probably due to high HCT.
> 
> Surely without coming off or giving blood your HCT and other things must be elevated* giving you a red face* or not heart healthy?


thats why my profile pic is in black and white lol


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

banzi said:


> Steroids increase your RBC so staying on all the time* you will need to do something to reduce it*, so what's your solution?


syphon it of and give blood reguarly lol


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Ok so what are your average doses PW this year for example where you say you have not really pushed it this year?
> 
> Most of my fat gains come when i come off the gear even a cruise, always sneaks on which effective take me backwards as i have to pull it back by cutting, its far easier to stay lean on gear i have had little time off this year for the first time i will admit, a friend has been on gear 15-20 years maybe more without a break, he's not a picture of health by the way, always big always lean but has a red face which is probably due to high HCT.
> 
> Surely without coming off or giving blood your HCT and other things must be elevated giving you a red face or not heart healthy?


For the first 6-7 months of the year I was using around 700-900mg of Trenbolone a week depending how lazy I got with it. Superdrol was 20mg ED, EQ was 600mg EW, Masteron was 150mg EW, Aromasin was 50mg EW. This is just a standard steady dose for me, never have any issues with it. After that I took then about 8 weeks with just Test, Deca around 800mg in total, still with Aromasin and then went on Androl, Proviron, Winstrol for something different for a couple weeks because I was sick of injecting myself, now just getting myself motivated to get back to injecting again and then I will start pushing again (3500mg range) for a period then revert back to what I was doing at the beginning of the year when I feel fit.

No red face or headaches unless high on doses such as Androl or Androl with EQ in a good amount. The thing is, I am not your friend and many variables come into health not just use. Genetics, lifestyle choices, diet, all these have impacts on peoples health. I will totally admit when pumping my self full of steroids I will get to a point where I know it is not good as my body is telling me so, maybe I am fatigued, feeling tight in places etc or just generally feeling over stretched, so I back off doses, change some things if needed, take a week or so off training, relax and those problems go away. When I have had blood work done, I have yet to have and significant issues. If I did, I would address them.

Within two weeks of Trenbolone being back in my body I am back to the same condition as I was when I was off it, so I am hardly gaining fat. Granted I look much better with Trenbolone being there, but that is more water manipulation than anything.

As to RBC, what has that got to do with anything? Let me guess, because people who have this are more likely to do die from strokes, blood clots and heart attacks? Well people who live in the mountains have high RBC and they are statistically far less to suffer with either and so do athletes so is it really unhealthy?. Show me the proof that a high RBC in long term steroid users has caused any of them any harm?


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## Abc987 (Sep 26, 2013)

Can be ****ed to read back over this but has op up pics and stats?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> For the first 6-7 months of the year I was using around 700-900mg of Trenbolone a week depending how lazy I got with it. Superdrol was 20mg ED, EQ was 600mg EW, Masteron was 150mg EW, Aromasin was 50mg EW. This is just a standard steady dose for me, never have any issues with it. After that I took then about 8 weeks with just Test, Deca around 800mg in total, still with Aromasin and then went on Androl, Proviron, Winstrol for something different for a couple weeks because I was sick of injecting myself, now just getting myself motivated to get back to injecting again and then I will start pushing again (3500mg range) for a period then revert back to what I was doing at the beginning of the year when I feel fit.
> 
> No red face or headaches unless high on doses such as Androl or Androl with EQ in a good amount. The thing is, I am not your friend and many variables come into health not just use. Genetics, lifestyle choices, diet, all these have impacts on peoples health. I will totally admit when pumping my self full of steroids I will get to a point where I know it is not good as my body is telling me so, maybe I am fatigued, feeling tight in places etc or just generally feeling over stretched, so I back off doses, change some things if needed, take a week or so off training, relax and those problems go away. When I have had blood work done, I have yet to have and significant issues. If I did, I would address them.
> 
> ...


you take big doses and eat like s**t and say you are sensible?

higher the RBC the thicker the blood causing higher bp, it's not rocket science.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

barksie said:


> careful there banzi, my wife got kidney failure through high blood pressure, keep an eye on it


I'm off everything and giving blood in a couple weeks


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Abc987 said:


> Can be ****ed to read back over this but has op up pics and stats?


World class stats, no pics.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Well Banzi, why don't you indulge me on what is eating good then?


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

i have a gut feeling banzi and alen8ed are the same person were getting fcked right over her guys lol


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Well Banzi, why don't you indulge me on what is eating good then.?


what could you possibly learn from me?

post a pic hot shot.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

vetran said:


> i have a gut feeling banzi and alen8ed are the same person were getting fcked right over her guys lol


I wouldn't waste my time typing all that shite.

i have a sneaky suspicion its Tommy bananas


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## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

In all seriousness, I would like to see a picture or two alien8ted, if it's not to much trouble mind you?


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> I wouldn't waste my time typing all that shite.
> 
> i have a sneaky suspicion its Tommy bananas


Hadn't he been admitted to hospital for shoving all the poppies up his anus!


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Thought as much. Well onto the next topic.

*Copper, Xenoestrogens and Oestrogen Retention/Production*

Throughout the western world people have often have high exposers to copper though their diets. Copper is used in pesticides, water pipes and in many industrial applications. Each day the average person is exposed to high levels of copper. of which their bodies will absorb. People in the west are commonly deficient in zinc and molybdenum and without sufficient intake of these two nutrients the body will start to accumulate copper. Below are some on the know effects of other vitamins and minerals on copper in the body.

Mercury, cadmium and zinc - compete for absorption. 
Molybdenum and sulfur - bind copper in the intestine.
Iron and manganese - remove copper from the liver.
Zinc - lowers copper levels in the blood. 
Vitamin C - chelates copper in the blood. 
Vitamin B6, folic acid and niacin are also copper antagonists.
Cobalt is synergetic with copper.

Copper imbalances in the body can lead to a whole host of problems, however copper toxicity is well linked to issues with the prostate, low thyroid activity, emotional problems and increased oestrogen in the body. For this reason women are naturally more copper prone and men are more zinc prone.

Xenoestrogens are sympathetic or natural compounds that trigger the bodies oestrogen production. They are commonly found in pesticides, some plastic food containers and personal care products. When copper and xenoestrogens meet in the liver they can bind which in excess can lead to things such as IBS.

By ensuring that you are not deficient in the known minerals and minerals, limiting exposer through known causes of each and by washing fruits and vegetables in an effective solution that will remove pesticides (soak for 20-30 minutes in 1 part white vinegar and 2 parts water) you can greatly reduce you exposer to compounds and excess copper that can cause these issues, whilst giving your body all the tools it needs to remove excess internally. This may be particularly helpful to those of you who are oestrogen prone.

As I know that some of you love a big read here is a very good one on Cholesterol which some of you may finding interesting and helpful. Dr Mercola does a much better job at explaining this than I can.

*The Cholesterol Myth That Could Be Damaging Your Health - By Dr. Joseph Mercola *

Cholesterol could easily be described as the smoking gun of the last two decades.

It's been responsible for demonizing entire categories of foods (like eggs and saturated fats) and blamed for just about every case of heart disease in the last 20 years.

Yet when I first opened my medical practice in the mid 80s, cholesterol, and the fear that yours was too high was rarely talked about.

Somewhere along the way however, cholesterol became a household word -- something that you must keep as low as possible, or suffer the consequences.

You are probably aware that there are many myths that portray fat and cholesterol as one of the worst foods you can consume. Please understand that these myths are actually harming your health.

Not only is cholesterol most likely not going to destroy your health (as you have been led to believe), but it is also not the cause of heart disease. And for those of you taking cholesterol-lowering drugs, the information that follows could not have been given to you fast enough. But before I delve into this life-changing information, let's get some basics down first.

*What is Cholesterol, and Why Do You Need It?*

That's right, you do need cholesterol.

This soft, waxy substance is found not only in your bloodstream, but also in every cell in your body, where it helps to produce cell membranes, hormones, vitamin D and bile acids that help you to digest fat. Cholesterol also helps in the formation of your memories and is vital for neurological function.

Your liver makes about 75 percent of your body's cholesterol , and according to conventional medicine, there are two types:

*High-density lipoprotein, or HDL:* This is the "good" cholesterol that helps to keep cholesterol away from your arteries and remove any excess from arterial plaque, which may help to prevent heart disease.

*Low-density lipoprotein, or LDL*: This "bad" cholesterol circulates in your blood and, according to conventional thinking, may build up in your arteries, forming plaque that makes your arteries narrow and less flexible (a condition called atherosclerosis). If a clot forms in one of these narrowed arteries leading to your heart or brain, a heart attack or stroke may result.

Also making up your total cholesterol count are:

-- Triglycerides: Elevated levels of this dangerous fat have been linked to heart disease and diabetes. Triglyceride levels are known to rise from eating too many grains and sugars, being physically inactive, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol excessively and being overweight or obese.

-- Lipoprotein (a), or Lp(a): Lp(a) is a substance that is made up of an LDL "bad cholesterol" part plus a protein (apoprotein a). Elevated Lp(a) levels are a very strong risk factor for heart disease. This has been well established, yet very few physicians check for it in their patients.

Understand this:

*Your Total Cholesterol Level is NOT a Great Indicator of Your Heart Disease Risk*

Health officials in the United States urge everyone over the age of 20 to have their cholesterol tested once every five years. Part of this test is your total cholesterol, or the sum of your blood's cholesterol content, including HDL, LDLs and VLDLs.

The American Heart Association recommends that your total cholesterol is less than 200 mg/dL, but what they do not tell you is that total cholesterol level is just about worthless in determining your risk for heart disease, unless it is above 330.

In addition, the AHA updated their guidelines in 2004, lowering the recommended level of LDL cholesterol from 130 to LDL to less than 100, or even less than 70 for patients at very high risk.

In order to achieve these outrageous and dangerously low targets, you typically need to take multiple cholesterol-lowering drugs. So the guidelines instantly increased the market for these dangerous drugs. Now, with testing children's cholesterol levels, they're increasing their market even more.

I have seen a number of people with total cholesterol levels over 250 who actually were at low heart disease risk due to their HDL levels. Conversely, I have seen even more who had cholesterol levels under 200 that were at a very high risk of heart disease based on the following additional tests:

-- HDL/Cholesterol ratio

-- Triglyceride/HDL ratios

HDL percentage is a very potent heart disease risk factor. Just divide your HDL level by your cholesterol. That percentage should ideally be above 24 percent.

You can also do the same thing with your triglycerides and HDL ratio. That percentage should be below 2.

Keep in mind, however, that these are still simply guidelines, and there's a lot more that goes into your risk of heart disease than any one of these numbers. In fact, it was only after word got out that total cholesterol is a poor predictor of heart disease that HDL and LDL cholesterol were brought into the picture.

They give you a closer idea of what's going on, but they still do not show you everything.

*Cholesterol is Neither "Good" Nor "Bad"*

Now that we've defined good and bad cholesterol, it has to be said that there is actually only one type of cholesterol. Ron Rosedale, MD, who is widely considered to be one of the leading anti-aging doctor in the United States, does an excellent job of explaining this concept :[ii]



> "Notice please that LDL and HDL are lipoproteins -- fats combined with proteins. There is only one cholesterol. There is no such thing as "good" or "bad" cholesterol.
> 
> Cholesterol is just cholesterol.
> 
> ...


*Cholesterol is Your Friend, Not Your Enemy*

Before we continue, I really would like you to get your mind around this concept.

In the United States, the idea that cholesterol is evil is very much engrained in most people's minds. But this is a very harmful myth that needs to be put to rest right now.



> "First and foremost," Dr. Rosedale points out, "cholesterol is a vital component of every cell membrane on Earth. In other words, there is no life on Earth that can live without cholesterol.
> 
> That will automatically tell you that, in and of itself, it cannot be evil. In fact, it is one of our best friends.
> 
> We would not be here without it. No wonder lowering cholesterol too much increases one's risk of dying. Cholesterol is also a precursor to all of the steroid hormones. You cannot make estrogen, testosterone, cortisone and a host of other vital hormones without cholesterol."


*Vitamin D and Your Cholesterol*

You probably are aware of the incredible influence of vitamin D on your health. If you aren't, or need a refresher, you can visit my vitamin D page.

What most people do not realize is that the best way to obtain your vitamin D is from safe exposure to sun on your skin. The UVB rays in sunlight interact with the cholesterol on your skin and convert it to vitamin D.

Bottom line?

If your cholesterol level is too low you will not be able to use the sun to generate sufficient levels of vitamin D.

Additionally, it provides some intuitive feedback that if cholesterol were so dangerous, why would your body use it as precursor for vitamin D and virtually all of the steroid hormones in your body?

Other "evidence" that cholesterol is good for you?

Consider the role of "good" HDL cholesterol. Essentially, HDL takes cholesterol from your body's tissues and arteries, and brings it back to your liver, where most of your cholesterol is produced. If the purpose of this was to eliminate cholesterol from your body, it would make sense that the cholesterol would be shuttled back to your kidneys or intestines so your body could remove it.

Instead, it goes back to your liver. Why?

Because your liver is going to reuse it.



> "It is taking it back to your liver so that your liver can recycle it; put it back into other particles to be taken to tissues and cells that need it," Dr. Rosedale explains. "Your body is trying to make and conserve the cholesterol for the precise reason that it is so important, indeed vital, for health."


*Cholesterol and Inflammation - What's the Connection?*

Inflammation has become a bit of a buzzword in the medical field because it has been linked to so many different diseases. And one of those diseases is heart disease ... the same heart disease that cholesterol is often blamed for.

What am I getting at?

Well, first consider the role of inflammation in your body. In many respects, it's a good thing as it's your body's natural response to invaders it perceives as threats. If you get a cut for instance, the process of inflammation is what allows you to heal.

Specifically during inflammation:

-- Your blood vessels constrict to keep you from bleeding to death

-- Your blood becomes thicker so it can clot

-- Your immune system sends cells and chemicals to fight viruses, bacteria and other "bad guys" that could infect the area

-- Cells multiply to repair the damage

Ultimately, the cut is healed and a protective scar may form over the area.

If your arteries are damaged, a very similar process occurs inside of your body, except that a "scar" in your artery is known as plaque.

This plaque, along with the thickening of your blood and constricting of your blood vessels that normally occur during the inflammatory process, can indeed increase your risk of high blood pressure and heart attacks.

Notice that cholesterol has yet to even enter the picture.

Cholesterol comes in because, in order to replace your damaged cells, it is necessary.

Remember that no cell can form without it.

So if you have damaged cells that need to be replaced, your liver will be notified to make more cholesterol and release it into your bloodstream. This is a deliberate process that takes place in order for your body to produce new, healthy cells.

It's also possible, and quite common, for damage to occur in your body on a regular basis. In this case, you will be in a dangerous state of chronic inflammation.

The test usually used to determine if you have chronic inflammation is a C-reactive protein (CRP) blood test. CRP level is used as a marker of inflammation in your arteries.

Generally speaking:

-- A CRP level under 1 milligrams per liter of blood means you have a low risk for cardiovascular disease

-- 1 to 3 milligrams means your risk is intermediate

-- More than 3 milligrams is high risk

Even conventional medicine is warming up to the idea that chronic inflammation can trigger heart attacks. But they stop short of seeing the big picture.

In the eyes of conventional medicine, when they see increased cholesterol circulating in your bloodstream, they conclude that it -- not the underlying damage to your arteries -- is the cause of heart attacks.

Which brings me to my next point.

*The Insanity of Lowering Cholesterol*

Sally Fallon, the president of the Weston A. Price Foundation, and Mary Enig, Ph.D, an expert in lipid biochemistry, have gone so far as to call high cholesterol "an invented disease, a 'problem' that emerged when health professionals learned how to measure cholesterol levels in the blood."[iii]

And this explanation is spot on.

If you have increased levels of cholesterol, it is at least in part because of increased inflammation in your body. The cholesterol is there to do a job: help your body to heal and repair.

Conventional medicine misses the boat entirely when they dangerously recommend that lowering cholesterol with drugs is the way to reduce your risk of heart attacks, because what is actually needed is to address whatever is causing your body damage -- and leading to increased inflammation and then increased cholesterol.

As Dr. Rosedale so rightly points out:



> "If excessive damage is occurring such that it is necessary to distribute extra cholesterol through the bloodstream, it would not seem very wise to merely lower the cholesterol and forget about why it is there in the first place.
> 
> It would seem much smarter to reduce the extra need for the cholesterol -- the excessive damage that is occurring, the reason for the chronic inflammation."


I'll discuss how to do this later in the report, but first let's take a look at the dangers of low cholesterol -- and how it came to be that cholesterol levels needed to be so low in the first place.

*If Your Cholesterol is Too Low ...*

All kinds of nasty things can happen to your body. Remember, every single one of your cells needs cholesterol to thrive -- including those in your brain. Perhaps this is why low cholesterol wreaks havoc on your psyche.

One large study conducted by Dutch researchers found that men with chronically low cholesterol levels showed a consistently higher risk of having depressive symptoms.[iv]

This may be because cholesterol affects the metabolism of serotonin, a substance involved in the regulation of your mood. On a similar note, Canadian researchers found that those in the lowest quarter of total cholesterol concentration had more than six times the risk of committing suicide as did those in the highest quarter. [v]

Dozens of studies also support a connection between low or lowered cholesterol levels and violent behavior, through this same pathway: lowered cholesterol levels may lead to lowered brain serotonin activity, which may, in turn, lead to increased violence and aggression. [vi]

And one meta-analysis of over 41,000 patient records found that people who take statin drugs to lower their cholesterol as much as possible may have a higher risk of cancer, [vii] while other studies have linked low cholesterol to Parkinson's disease.

What cholesterol level is too low? Brace yourself.

Probably any level much under 150 -- an optimum would be more like 200.

Now I know what you are thinking: "But my doctor tells me my cholesterol needs to be under 200 to be healthy." Well let me enlighten you about how these cholesterol recommendations came to be. And I warn you, it is not a pretty story.

This is a significant issue. I have seen large numbers of people who have their cholesterol lowered below 150, and there is little question in my mind that it is causing far more harm than any benefit they are receiving by lowering their cholesterol this low.

*Who Decided What Cholesterol Levels are Healthy or Harmful?*

In 2004, the U.S. government's National Cholesterol Education Program panel advised those at risk for heart disease to attempt to reduce their LDL cholesterol to specific, very low, levels.

Before 2004, a 130-milligram LDL cholesterol level was considered healthy. The updated guidelines, however, recommended levels of less than 100, or even less than 70 for patients at very high risk.

Keep in mind that these extremely low targets often require multiple cholesterol-lowering drugs to achieve.

Fortunately, in 2006 a review in the Annals of Internal Medicine [viii] found that there is insufficient evidence to support the target numbers outlined by the panel. The authors of the review were unable to find research providing evidence that achieving a specific LDL target level was important in and of itself, and found that the studies attempting to do so suffered from major flaws.

Several of the scientists who helped develop the guidelines even admitted that the scientific evidence supporting the less-than-70 recommendation was not very strong.

So how did these excessively low cholesterol guidelines come about?

*Eight of the nine doctors *on the panel that developed the new cholesterol guidelines had been making money from the drug companies that manufacture statin cholesterol-lowering drugs.[ix]

The same drugs that the new guidelines suddenly created a huge new market for in the United States.

Coincidence? I think not.

Now, despite the finding that there is absolutely NO evidence to show that lowering your LDL cholesterol to 100 or below is good for you, what do you think the American Heart Association STILL recommends?

Lowering your LDL cholesterol levels to less than 100. [x]

And to make matters worse, the standard recommendation to get to that level almost always includes one or more cholesterol-lowering drugs.

*The Dangers of Cholesterol-Lowering Medications*

If you are concerned about your cholesterol levels, taking a drug should be your absolute last resort. And when I say last resort, I'm saying the odds are very high, greater than 100 to 1, that you don't need drugs to lower your cholesterol.

To put it another way, among the more than 20,000 patients who have come to my clinic, only four or five of them truly needed these drugs, as they had genetic challenges of familial hypercholesterolemia that required it..

Contrast this to what is going on in the general population. According to data from Medco Health Solutions Inc., more than half of insured Americans are taking drugs for chronic health conditions. And cholesterol-lowering medications are the second most common variety among this group, with nearly 15 percent of chronic medication users taking them (high blood pressure medications -- another vastly over-prescribed category -- were first). [xi]

Disturbingly, as written in BusinessWeek early in 2008, "Some researchers have even suggested -- half-jokingly -- that the medications should be put in the water supply."[xii]

Count yourself lucky that you probably do NOT need to take cholesterol-lowering medications, because these are some nasty little pills.

Statin drugs work by inhibiting an enzyme in your liver that's needed to manufacture cholesterol. What is so concerning about this is that when you go tinkering around with the delicate workings of the human body, you risk throwing everything off kilter.

Case in point, "statin drugs inhibit not just the production of cholesterol, but a whole family of intermediary substances, many if not all of which have important biochemical functions in their own right," say Enig and Fallon.3

For starters, statin drugs deplete your body of Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10), which is beneficial to heart health and muscle function. Because doctors rarely inform people of this risk and advise them to take a CoQ10 supplement, this depletion leads to fatigue, muscle weakness, soreness, and eventually heart failure.

Muscle pain and weakness, a condition called rhabdomyolysis, is actually the most common side effect of statin drugs, which is thought to occur because statins activate the atrogin-1 gene, which plays a key role in muscle atrophy. [xiii]

By the way, muscle pain and weakness may be an indication that your body tissues are actually breaking down -- a condition that can cause kidney damage.

Statin drugs have also been linked to:

-- An increased risk of polyneuropathy (nerve damage that causes pain in the hands and feet and trouble walking)

-- Dizziness

-- Cognitive impairment, including memory loss [xiv]

-- A potential increased risk of cancer [xv]

-- Decreased function of the immune system[xvi]

-- Depression

-- Liver problems, including a potential increase in liver enzymes (so people taking statins must be regularly monitored for normal liver function)

And recently a possible association was found between statins and an increased risk of Lou Gehrig's disease. [xvii]

Other cholesterol-lowering drugs besides statins also have side effects, most notably muscle pain and weakness.

*IMPORTANT NOTE*

If, for whatever reason, you or someone you know or love does not believe the information in this report and chooses to stay on statin drugs, then please make sure they at least take one to two Ubiquinols per day.

This will help prevent all the side effects mentioned above.

Ubiquinol is the reduced version of Coenzyme Q-10 and is far more effective if you are over 35-40 years old. It is the form of the supplement that actually works, and if you take CoQ-10 and your body can't reduce it to uniquinol you are just fooling yourself and wasting your money.

*Are Cholesterol Drugs Even Effective?*

With all of these risks, the drugs had better be effective, right? Well, even this is questionable. At least, it depends on how you look at it.

Most cholesterol lowering drugs can effectively lower your cholesterol numbers, but are they actually making you any healthier, and do they help prevent heart disease?

Have you ever heard of the statistic known as NNT, or number needed to treat?

I didn't think so. In fact, most doctors haven't either. And herein lies the problem.

NNT answers the question: How many people have to take a particular drug to avoid one incidence of a medical issue (such as a heart attack)?

For example, if a drug had an NNT of 50 for heart attacks, then 50 people have to take the drug in order to prevent one heart attack.

Easy enough, right?

Well, drug companies would rather that you not focus on NNT, because when you do, you get an entirely different picture of their "miracle" drugs. Take, for instance, Pfizer's Lipitor, which is the most prescribed cholesterol medication in the world and has been prescribed to more than 26 million Americans. [xviii]

According to Lipitor's own Web site, Lipitor is clinically proven to lower bad cholesterol 39-60 percent, depending on the dose. Sounds fairly effective, right?

Well, BusinessWeek actually did an excellent story on this very topic earlier this year,[xix] and they found the REAL numbers right on Pfizer's own newspaper ad for Lipitor.

Upon first glance, the ad boasts that Lipitor reduces heart attacks by 36 percent. But there is an asterisk. And when you follow the asterisk, you find the following in much smaller type:



> "That means in a large clinical study, 3% of patients taking a sugar pill or placebo had a heart attack compared to 2% of patients taking Lipitor."


What this means is that for every 100 people who took the drug over 3.3 years, three people on placebos, and two people on Lipitor, had heart attacks. That means that taking Lipitor resulted in just one fewer heart attack per 100 people.

The NNT, in this case, is 100. One hundred people have to take Lipitor for more than three years to prevent one heart attack. And the other 99 people, well, they've just dished out hundreds of dollars and increased their risk of a multitude of side effects for nothing.

So you can see how the true effectiveness of cholesterol drugs like Lipitor is hidden behind a smokescreen.

Or in some cases, not hidden at all.

*Zetia and Vytorin: No Medical Benefits*

Early in 2008, it came out that Zetia, which works by inhibiting absorption of cholesterol from your intestines, and Vytorin, which is a combination of Zetia and Zocor (a statin drug), do not work.

This was discovered AFTER the drugs acquired close to 20 percent of the U.S. market for cholesterol-lowering drugs. And also after close to 1 million prescriptions for the drugs were being written each week in the United States, bringing in close to $4 billion in 2007. [xx]

It was only after the results of a trial by the drugs' makers, Merck and Schering-Plough, were released that this was found out. Never mind that the trial was completed in April 2006, and results were not released until January 2008.

And it's no wonder the drug companies wanted to hide these results.

While Zetia does lower cholesterol by 15 percent to 20 percent, trials did not show that it reduces heart attacks or strokes, or that it reduces plaques in arteries that can lead to heart problems.

The trial by the drugs' makers, which studied whether Zetia could reduce the growth of plaques, found that plaques grew nearly twice as fast in patients taking Zetia along with Zocor (Vytorin) than in those taking Zocor alone. [xxi]

Of course, the answer is not to turn back to typical statin drugs to lower your cholesterol, as many of the so-called experts would have you believe.

You see, statins are thought to have a beneficial effect on inflammation in your body, thereby lowering your risk of heart attack and stroke.

But you can lower inflammation in your body naturally, without risking any of the numerous side effects of statin drugs. This should also explain why my guidelines for lowering cholesterol are identical to those to lower inflammation.

For more in-depth information about cholesterol-lowering drugs, please see my recently updated statin drug index page.

*How to Lower Inflammation, and Thereby Your Risk of Heart Disease, Naturally*

There is a major misconception that you must avoid foods like eggs and saturated fat to protect your heart. While it's true that fats from animal sources contain cholesterol, I've explained earlier in this article why this should not scare you -- but I'll explain even further here.

This misguided principle is based on the "lipid hypothesis" -- developed in the 1950s by nutrition pioneer Ancel Keys -- that linked dietary fat to coronary heart disease.

The nutrition community of that time completely accepted the hypothesis, and encouraged the public to cut out butter, red meat, animal fats, eggs, dairy and other "artery clogging" fats from their diets -- a radical change at that time.

What you may not know is that when Keys published his analysis that claimed to prove the link between dietary fats and coronary heart disease, he selectively analyzed information from only six countries to prove his correlation, rather than comparing all the data available at the time -- from 22 countries.

As a result of this "cherry-picked" data, government health organizations began bombarding the public with advice that has contributed to the diabetes and obesity epidemics going on today: eat a low-fat diet.

Not surprisingly, numerous studies have actually shown that Keys' theory was wrong and saturated fats are healthy, including these studies from Fallon and Enig's classic article The Skinny on Fats: [xxii]

A survey of South Carolina adults found no correlation of blood cholesterol levels with "bad" dietary habits, such as use of red meat, animal fats, fried foods, butter, eggs, whole milk, bacon, sausage and cheese. [xxiii] 
A Medical Research Council survey showed that men eating butter ran half the risk of developing heart disease as those using margarine. [xxiv] 
Of course, as Americans cut out nutritious animal fats from their diets, they were left hungry. So they began eating more processed grains, more vegetable oils, and more high-fructose corn syrup, all of which are nutritional disasters.

It is this latter type of diet that will eventually lead to increased inflammation, and therefore cholesterol, in your body. So don't let anyone scare you away from saturated fat anymore.

Chronic inflammation is actually caused by a laundry list of items such as:

-- Oxidized cholesterol (cholesterol that has gone rancid, such as that from overcooked, scrambled eggs)

-- Eating lots of sugar and grains

-- Eating foods cooked at high temperatures

-- Eating trans fats

-- A sedentary lifestyle

-- Smoking

-- Emotional stress

So to sum it all up, in order to lower your inflammation and cholesterol levels naturally, you must address the items on this list.

*How to Lower Your Cholesterol Naturally...*

1. Make sure you're getting plenty of high-quality, animal-based omega3-fats. I prefer those from krill oil. New research suggests that as little as 500 mg may lower your total cholesterol and triglycerides and will likely increase your HDL cholesterol.

2. Reduce, with the plan of eliminating, grains and sugars in your daily diet. It is especially important to eliminate dangerous sugars such as fructose. If your HDL/Cholesterol ratio is abnormal and needs to be improved it would also serve you well to virtually eliminate fruits from your diet, as that it also a source of fructose. Once your cholesterol improves you can gradually reintroduce it to levels that don't raise your cholesterol.

3. Eat the right foods for your nutritional type. You can learn your nutritional type by taking our FREE test.

4. Eat a good portion of your food raw.

5. Eat healthy, preferably raw, fats that correspond to your nutritional type. This includes:

-- Olive oil

-- Coconut and coconut oil

-- Organic raw dairy products (including butter, cream, sour cream, cheese, etc.)

-- Avocados

-- Raw nuts

-- Seeds

-- Eggs (lightly cooked with yolks intact or raw)

-- Organic, grass-fed meats

6. Get the right amount of exercise, especially Peak Fitness type of exercise. When you exercise you increase your circulation and the blood flow throughout your body. The components of your immune system are also better circulated, which means your immune system has a better chance of fighting an illness before it has the opportunity to spread.

7. Avoid smoking and drinking excessive amounts of alcohol.

8. Address your emotional challenges. I particularly love the Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) for stress management.

So there you have it; the reasons why high cholesterol is a worry that many of you simply do not need to have, along with a simple plan to optimize yours.

If someone you love is currently taking cholesterol-lowering drugs, I urge you to share this information with them as well, and take advantage of the thousands of free pages of information on www.Mercola.com.

For the majority of you reading this right now, there's no reason to risk your health with cholesterol-lowering drugs. With the plan I've just outlined, you'll achieve the cholesterol levels you were meant to have, along with the very welcome "side effects" of increased energy, mood and mental clarity.

Too good to be true?

Hardly.

For the vast majority of people, making a few lifestyle changes causes healthy cholesterol levels to naturally occur.

As always, your health really is in your hands. Now it's up to you to take control -- and shape it into something great.

Dr. Joseph Mercola is the founder and director of Mercola.com. Become a fan of Dr. Mercola on Facebook, on Twitter and check out Dr. Mercola's report on sun exposure!


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> Well firstly I never run HCG as I am always on. I never have an issue with oestrogen either because I learned what works for me and how to use it, so where is the ancillaries when I am on a lower dose? I only every use Aromasin as an ancillary any way, which again has nothing to suggest it is dangerous over long term use. Most of the time I use just 50mg a week of it, I never go over 75mg so hardly saturating myself with them! How can something not be mild that is used for years by many, even at higher doses?
> 
> Of course you are shut down on Deca or any other steroid that is how they work. Yes it make changes in the body, but what is there to suggest that that is actually harmful to you? There are plenty of people who undergo hormone replacement therapies such as estrogen, testosterone, thyroxine, progesterone etc that have long, healthy, unaffected lives so how how is something not be mild just because you have issues controlling your oestrogen? Have you looked at what things in your body can cause high oestrogen/oestrogen issues, maybe the issues you are having are not just because of use. Just because you are suppressing something with a synthetic version or your body is processing something doesn't mean it is wrecking your body, you body is exposed to all sorts of harmful crap each and every day which without a doubt if you took enough in one go would kill you straight but yet people go on and live many years. I never seen anyone over dose on Deca and be rushed to A&E because they took too much. Just because something has a good anabolic effect does not mean that the negatives are not mild if existent at all.
> 
> Steroids, unless used like an idiot, are not going to kill you any time soon. With many diseases/issues they actually help improve and extend life. Yes they effect things but that is far from killing you or even damaging your health.


What works for you does not work for me. All your posts are anecdotal (excluding your copy/pastes) - yet you write them in a long winded kind about way that implies there is some sort of evidence/merit behind it all.

It's just your 'opinion' at the end of the day bud.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> What works for you does not work for me. All your posts are anecdotal (excluding your copy/pastes) - yet you write them in a long winded kind about way that implies there is some sort of evidence/merit behind it all.
> 
> It's just your 'opinion' at the end of the day bud.


Of course it is my opinion, as are nearly all the posts on this forum. I made that pretty clear on the second paragraph of the opening topics of the thread.

I would argue that I write in such a way that does no insist or even imply such things, but merely suggests ideas/principles that people may not be aware of which relate to my personal experiences. Everything I talk about I have applied to myself and sometimes in others. As I have said before, I am providing information, how people choose to take this information is up to them, hopefully some will use some of it to better themselves like I have. If it is long winded or people find it too long/boring to read, they are welcome not to read it.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

great info...not interested in pics,can usually tell the bullshitters on here with there wan.k physiques giving it the big one lol.

Stims also a big factor in bp,heart problems and causes of heart attacks these days.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> great info...not interested in pics,can usually tell the bullshitters on here with there wan.k physiques giving it the big one lol.
> 
> *Stims also a big factor in bp,heart problems and causes of heart attacks these days.*


Yes you are spot on Mal, their health effects can be similar to many illegal narcotics.


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## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

> Of course it is my opinion, as are nearly all the posts on this forum. I made that pretty clear on the second paragraph of the opening topics of the thread.
> 
> I would argue that I write in such a way that does no insist or even imply such things, but merely suggests ideas/principles that people may not be aware of which relate to my personal experiences. Everything I talk about I have applied to myself and sometimes in others. As I have said before, I am providing information, how people choose to take this information is up to them, hopefully some will use some of it to better themselves like I have through this information. If it is long winded or people find it too long, they are welcome not to read it.


You're saying that Testosterone and Nandrolone are 'very mild' on the body, and that long-term AI's pose no detrimental impact. All not true and dangerous info really to be gospel feeding young guys here who plan on maintaining a healthy HPTA and fertility.

I hard to go around it the hard way when we started trying for a family.

Plenty of studies out there showing the long-term affects of AI's on lipids btw. And on the flip-side, plenty showing what happens to the prostate in a surplus of E2.

Nobody ever checks Potassium levels either, I had to undergo emergency treatment to lower mine earlier on this year as they were at a level which was detrimental to my heart.

Your posts gloss over all the negatives, or simply fail to mention any of them and play down any risks involved. You're basically promoting TRT to guys in their 20s or younger.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Anything that can be taken for years without killing you or even be proven to directly cause problems in your health is mild at best.

As before, I would ask you to provide evidence in your claims, because you are saying the same thing but there is no fact to what you say. I took steroids for years from a young age and produced a family, sure it is possible it has effected others and prevented this, but hey so could other things. I know several guys who not used steroids who can't produce kids, You do not need to take my word on it, go Google it, there are plenty..

Where have I promoted TRT to young guys? I do not advocate steroids in young guys at all, I am quite the opposite as a mater of fact and I can speak from experience here because I was young when I started.

Steroids & Ai's effect lipids, yes, but I suggest you read the article above I have just posted my Dr. Mercola. I share his view on these. I can assure you that fats (inc omega 3) are not in short supply in my body so why do I care if my lipids are not average? I am a steroid user, of course they are not going to be average.

E2 with Aromasin dosed correctly? Obviously you have failed to read what I have said, I do not have a estradiol surplus, all blood work it has been fine and I have no oestrogen problems.I do not have an issue with potassium either. Again I would advise you to read through the thread.

I do not have a problem with you contending what I say, however up to now you have accused me of several things, which if you or anyone else read through this thread they will find not true and the points/issues you have shared could quite easily come from poor use and/or in some instances lifestyle choices of which led to these situations.

Up to now your points have no merit with me, I could argue that many things in the air you breath are worse for your health than steroids, but are you going to stop breathing if I tell you or start breathing through a tank? I very much doubt it. Then again it might never kill you or make you sick, you may die from something else all together and you could argue that. You show me a controlled worthy study on long term use against cycling that proves anything you say. Show me any long term study where the steroids where proven to kill a person. It is all speculation and as of yet it is no more than your opinion that your way is any safer or better than mine.

I am not here to talk about who is right, who is wrong because no one knows. What I am here to tell you is about my experiences, my health and that of others of what I know about, provide my thoughts and my beliefs which obviously go against the grain and give people an alternative perspectives because quite frankly I am sick of this narrow minded view and approaches that I see pushed by many as the "right" way.


----------



## Archaic (Mar 8, 2010)

Are you manic or something??



Alien8ed said:


> Up to now your points have no merit with me.


Well, we agree on something then..


----------



## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

> For the first 6-7 months of the year I was using around 700-900mg of Trenbolone a week depending how lazy I got with it. Superdrol was 20mg ED, EQ was 600mg EW, Masteron was 150mg EW, Aromasin was 50mg EW. This is just a standard steady dose for me, never have any issues with it. After that I took then about 8 weeks with just Test, Deca around 800mg in total, still with Aromasin and then went on Androl, Proviron, Winstrol for something different for a couple weeks because I was sick of injecting myself, now just getting myself motivated to get back to injecting again and then I will start pushing again (3500mg range) for a period then revert back to what I was doing at the beginning of the year when I feel fit.
> 
> No red face or headaches unless high on doses such as Androl or Androl with EQ in a good amount. The thing is, I am not your friend and many variables come into health not just use. Genetics, lifestyle choices, diet, all these have impacts on peoples health. I will totally admit when pumping my self full of steroids I will get to a point where I know it is not good as my body is telling me so, maybe I am fatigued, feeling tight in places etc or just generally feeling over stretched, so I back off doses, change some things if needed, take a week or so off training, relax and those problems go away. When I have had blood work done, I have yet to have and significant issues. If I did, I would address them.
> 
> ...


I know more than one person who has been on for years on end and there not exactly keeling over, i also expect the pros stay on year round, some of the locals competitors were on year round, a break was a switch to anabolics for 6 weeks or a PCT for 4, two weeks off and back on for antoher 4-6 months, i would expect the pro's to donate blood and at least try to keep HCT from spiraling to high, i believe 58-60% would be a phlebotomy range, i recently done one on 57%.

Proving anything is difficult unless people are dropping all over the place, there arent worthwhile studies on people like us, polycythaemia is a recognized condition though and testosterone induces polycythaemia ,polycythaemia does have increased risk of blood clots and heart attacks etc.

6-7 months on 7-900mg tren + others is more than my blast cycles lol , how long have you been doing cycles like that ?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> I know more than one person who has been on for years on end and there not exactly keeling over, i also expect the pros stay on year round, some of the locals competitors were on year round, a break was a switch to anabolics for 6 weeks or a PCT for 4, two weeks off and back on for antoher 4-6 months, i would expect the pro's to donate blood and at least try to keep HCT from spiraling to high, i believe 58-60% would be a phlebotomy range, i recently done one on 57%.
> 
> Proving anything is difficult unless people are dropping all over the place, there arent worthwhile studies on people like us, polycythaemia is a recognized condition though and testosterone induces polycythaemia ,polycythaemia does have increased risk of blood clots and heart attacks etc.
> 
> 6-7 months on 7-900mg tren + others is more than my blast cycles lol , how long have you been doing cycles like that ?


Several years.Well from a lot of the people and competitors I have known/know, that is hardly blasting.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

> Several years.Well from a lot of the people and competitors I have known/know, that is hardly blasting.


No i agree.. my cycles arent that small, its a good dose of tren though.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I am lucky with Trenbolone as I tolerate it very well. I have not acne, bad moods, toxic feelings, hair loss, I actually like being on it most the time. Makes me a bit sweaty and uncomfortable when hot, my piss goes darker and the frequent injections I get fed up with but that is about it. A friend of mine only needs a small amount and he suffers with bad acne, this is one of the reasons I do not like to talk doses as some people jump the gun onto those sorts of doses and end up not being able to tolerate it or hitting brick walls early from starting too high. When I first started taking it was just 50mg EOD, My first cycle was 150mg a week of orals, I never went over 500mg a week for around 3 years I just used to try all different types and combinations which did allow me to make some good size. I have not acne, no bad moods, not toxic feeling with it, no hair loss, I actually like being on it.

150mg ed is a good place for me to just sit at, 200-250mg is more pushing a larger conditioned look which I do with Superdrol and EQ usually, 300mg is excessive and I do not do that any more, but I will not lie, the changes come very fast at that sort of dose and it allow for some impressive volume with the Superdrol. Best I can get it without HGH and if you add HGH to that it just even more pronounced.


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## workinprogress1 (Oct 1, 2015)

banzi said:


> believe me, I have been trolling a long time


*@Alien8ed can i give you a bit of advice mate*

*virtually everyone in this thread has liked your posts and found them helpful and insightful*

*except for one, who is obsessively stalking you*

*his above quote in this thread tells you what he's trying to do*

*he'll try and say anything to wind you up mate, he's accused you of stealing the info,trying to sell something, stealing data or some sh1t and when he's not able to substantiate any of that he's just trying to wind you up NO MATTER WHAT YOU POST*

*just ignore him mate, the more you indulge him the more he'll be sitting in his probably crappy little flat laughing at how you're actually indulging him and patting himself on the back for being such an accomplished troll and that all these years spent on the forum are finally starting to pay of now he's in his 50's*


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Alien8ed said:


> I am lucky with Trenbolone as I tolerate it very well. I have not acne, bad moods, toxic feelings, hair loss, I actually like being on it most the time. Makes me a bit sweaty and uncomfortable when hot, my piss goes darker and the frequent injections I get fed up with but that is about it. A friend of mine only needs a small amount and he suffers with bad acne, this is one of the reasons I do not like to talk doses as some people jump the gun onto those sorts of doses and end up not being able to tolerate it or hitting brick walls early from starting too high. When I first started taking it was just 50mg EOD, My first cycle was 150mg a week of orals, I never went over 500mg a week for around 3 years I just used to try all different types and combinations which did allow me to make some good size. I have not acne, no bad moods, not toxic feeling with it, no hair loss, I actually like being on it.
> 
> 150mg ed is a good place for me to just sit at, 200-250mg is more pushing a larger conditioned look which I do with Superdrol and EQ usually, 300mg is excessive and I do not do that any more, but I will not lie, the changes come very fast at that sort of dose and it allow for some impressive volume with the Superdrol. Best I can get it without HGH and if you add HGH to that it just even more pronounced.


have you used tbol ever mate,i cant handle tren or dbol that well...been on it for 6weeks now and like it..wondered what it could

do longer term say 3 months+ seem to notice small improvements every week on it..


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## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

http://www.harvardprostateknowledge.org/a-harvard-expert-shares-his-thoughts-on-testosterone-replacement-therapy

Here is something that may be of interest to some of you....

For example, testosterone can increase the hematocrit, the percentage of red blood cells in the bloodstream. If the hematocrit goes up too high, we worry about the blood becoming too viscous or thick, possibly predisposing someone to stroke or clotting events. Although, frankly, in a review that I wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine* where we reviewed as much of this as we could, we found no cases of stroke or severe clotting related to testosterone therapy. Nevertheless, the risk exists, so we want to be careful about giving testosterone to men who already have a high hematocrit, such as those with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or those who have a red-blood-cell disorder.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> have you used tbol ever mate,i cant handle tren or dbol that well...been on it for 6weeks now and like it..wondered what it could
> 
> do longer term say 3 months+ seem to notice small improvements every week on it..


Hello,

Yes but only for one run so I can't be 100% about it as not enough experience with it. I wasn't that keen with it when I tried with it, I didn't get the volume with it as I used in place of something else, can't remember what, but I didn't go that high with the dose so that may be why.


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## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

> yeah it seems like you're out there in the real world really enjoying that amazing car and family you have judging by your posting stats
> 
> the amount of time you're on here, and if that's an indicator and from what you've said other forums when do you even have time to have a sh1t let alone enjoy this fantastic life you've got
> 
> ...


Just playing devils advocate here.....

You mentioned a good few posts back advising the OP not to interact with Banztroll, but yet your doing the opposite by feeding the Banztroll.

How does it feel?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I see the modding team have done a good job of moving the troll posts from banzi and others. I will be updating soon.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*Toxins & Fat Loss*

A controlled study was done a couple ago with a group of people. The group for the study where all put on the same diet and exercise regime and their weight loss amongst other things was recorded. A significant proportion of the group struggled to lose weight, however the people conducting the study could not understand why at first. It was only when they dissected fat from the people in the study did they find the reason why. They found that people who struggled to lose weight all had high levels of toxins, in particular pesticides, in their stored fat compared to the rest of the group that lost weight. It has believed that when the human body is overloaded with toxins to a point where it can not remove them in sufficient time through it's regular processes (urination, sweating, breathing & passing faeces), the body will store such harmful chemicals in fat cells to prevent harm to the human body.

This may be the reason why some people struggle to lose weight and why some people get sick when they try to lose weight. As fat cells are consumed for energy, any toxins stored within are then released which the body must deal with. The study showed that toxin retention could lead to difficulties in the body releasing fat for energy consumption. The bodies primary vitamin for removing toxins is alleged to be vitamin c and when this is in short supply it is supposed to use the b vitamins next. Since acquiring this knowledge I have witnessed on my self that high doses of vitamin c are beneficial to fat loss whilst dieting, however time and dose needs to be restricted as high doses are not advised for long periods. It is believed that this is the same reason which many are found to be deficient in vitamin c although it is not in short supply in any reasonable western diet.

Pesticides, which is the term also used for a multitude of chemicals used to aid crop growth and preservation from pests, is used in high amounts by agriculture industry. Some fruits, such as strawberries, can have as many as 36 different types of chemicals sprayed on them to aid in their survival during their growth. Although a proportion of this can be washed off with a suitable solution (1 part white vinegar to 2 parts water - soaked for 20-30 minutes), the type of crop will dictate how many chemicals it soaks up from the soil and through their skins. Some are more resistant than others (thick skinned fruits for example), some are terrible (such as carrots) for absorbing all these toxins. Organic vegetables, fruits and grains are your best way to reduce pesticides as they are not sprayed and can only absorb what is still present in the ground. Tap water is also high in toxins and is best replaced with spring water versions, although some plastic bottles also contain chemicals that leach into the water..

A combined effort of correctly cleaning such foods, avoiding fruits that are known to be heavily sprayed and eating such foods generally in excess, as well as drinking spring water is a good place to start to reduce toxins. Supplementation of vitamins and minerals is the best known way to ensure optimal removal of these. Eating organic versions of fatty animal products, fruits and vegetables in addition is the ideal method to reduce toxins consumed even further.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Struth,

yep, dont eat fruit and veg that might have been sprayed with chemicals but chuck in 4 grams a week of multiple drugs.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Alien8ed said:


> *Toxins & Fat Loss*
> 
> A controlled study was done a couple ago with a group of people. The group for the study where all put on the same diet and exercise regime and their weight loss amongst other things was recorded. A significant proportion of the group struggled to lose weight, however the people conducting the study could not understand why at first. It was only when they dissected fat from the people in the study did they find the reason why. They found that people who struggled to lose weight all had high levels of toxins, in particular pesticides, in their stored fat compared to the rest of the group that lost weight. It has believed that when the human body is overloaded with toxins to a point where it can not remove them in sufficient time through it's regular processes (urination, sweating, breathing & passing faeces), the body will store such harmful chemicals in fat cells to prevent harm to the human body.
> 
> ...


Could you please provide a link to where this study was published, or failing that any information you do have about who carried it out, where and when to that I can try to find it. I'll be honest and say I'm skeptical about what you've said but I'm open to new ideas if this was properly conducted research.


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## LRB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> TLDNR


Thanks for expressing your reaction in the case someone was wondering, long posts are not for everyone, better to stick to the ones that interest ya


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

LRB said:


> Thanks for expressing your reaction in the case someone was wondering, long posts are not for everyone, better to stick to the ones that interest ya


If I want to read walls of text I will buy a book.

Forums are for short posts, you can add a link to the relevant information rather than bastardising and plagiarising it.


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> If I want to read walls of text I will buy a book.
> 
> Forums are for short posts, you can add a link to the relevant information rather than bastardising and plagiarising it.


Hope you do not get caught for having two acc


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> Hope you do not get caught for having two acc


I wont because I don't.

Check the IPs


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> I wont because I don't.
> 
> Check the IPs


Controversial thread, of which you stir up most of the excitement to keep it going.

You get paid to keep people posting/draw attention to forums etc...

This "guy" posts the same thing on lots of different forums (of which you are also an active member of) for a similar result...

Seeing a bit of a trend here...


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Drogon said:


> Controversial thread, of which you stir up most of the excitement to keep it going.
> 
> You get paid to keep people posting/draw attention to forums etc...
> 
> ...


Nope, only a member here.

Rest of the post is bullshit as well.

Paid to post???


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## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

banzi said:


> Nope, only a member here.
> 
> Rest of the post is bullshit as well.
> 
> Paid to post???


huehue okay :thumb:


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Could you please provide a link to where this study was published, or failing that any information you do have about who carried it out, where and when to that I can try to find it. I'll be honest and say I'm skeptical about what you've said but I'm open to new ideas if this was properly conducted research.


I will try and find it for you, it was a while since I seen it, however I will do my best to find it.


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## workinprogress1 (Oct 1, 2015)

banzi said:


> Forums are for short posts


says who?

th1s aint your fcuking forum

just because you can't string two paragraphs together without using a meme or a gif doesnt mean everyone else has to

fcuk off to twitter then if you don't like it with your 10,000 140 character nonsense posts


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

workinprogress1 said:


> says who?
> 
> th1s aint your fcuking forum
> 
> ...


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

@Alien8ed - Here's one for you, some people say this but from my experience it isn't true. Do you 'feel' any different or get a different look from using different esters of Tren?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> @Alien8ed - Here's one for you, some people say this but from my experience it isn't true. Do you 'feel' any different or get a different look from using different esters of Tren?


Lol, this leads me onto my next topic that I was just about to write. No, I think that it is complete horse s**t. Yes, Acetate works quicker and there are some benefits to that, however Enanthate is just as effective and of recent years I actually prefer it. I will write the topic now..


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*Trenbolone Esters*

Trenbolone comes in several esters of which some people believe that certain versions are superior. For general bodybuilding any of the esters will do, however I have found that there is an advantage with esters such as acetate when there are periods of time where changes in the physique need to be manipulated quickly. Overall all these versions are are very similar in effect, just some are slightly more potent mg/mg, but really I believe that you are mostly you are buying into hype over which ester is best for overall development.

In my experience Trenbolone works best when levels are stable in the body whilst being dosed at effectively and increased slightly over time. Which ever ester you achieve this is irrelevant, they key is regular dosing. The higher you dose it the quicker it will work on the body to change the composition towards a more harder, dryer and vascular version of your current self, however do not be fooled into thinking that you can cut out years of use through higher doses from the offset. High dosing brings about fast changes in body composition, but you will still need time to develop that muscle maturity from being a young male.

Shorter esters will work more quickly initially, however once levels are built up, the regular changes it brings are consistent across the esters as long as regular dosing is maintained. Although shorter esters may appear to be more effective as they manipulate water in the body quickly, the overall effect is similar over sustained periods. Trenbolone allows you to pay less attention to what you are eating and still make significant improvements to you composition, however you can still and will gain fat and hold excessive water if you are regularly over eating. It is not a free pass on to eat like a mule, but many find themselves eating more and looking better whilst on.

There are several versions out on the market, but let me cover the more common ones:

Trenbolone Cyclohexylmethylcarbonate & Hexahydrobenzylcarbonate - In my experience these esters are no better than enanthate or acetate they wimply cost more. The reason for this is the retail price on the raw supplies is often twice the price or higher than enanthate or acetate. It is not more expensive because it is a better compound but more so because it is more expensive to produce. Personally, I have found you need to be injecting this every 48hrs or less to get the best consistent look with your body composition, although with either versions you can go a little bit longer without before it will start to drop off.

Trenbolone Acetate - This is probably the most popular version and to give it credit it does work fast, the downside with acetate is it needs regular doses .Ideally I would say doses are best every 24-36 hours. It will stretch to 48hrs but you will see you composition start to drop off quickly around the 48hr period, hence why I say less. Personally I found it to give the best consistent look when injected every 36 hours, however keeping track of these injections and the practicality of doing so around work etc is pain in the arse at best! I have used this particular drug for several years straight and I can tell you after several months of daily injections it gets tedious and injection sites can get tender. The main advantage to this ester is that is is in and out of the body fast! You can manipulate you look in a short space of time with this drug and it is also good for avoiding being caught at drug tested events, hence why many use it. I would always use Acetate to look my best because I like to pull it out two days before my target day as to dry out more, I find this harder to timer with Enanthate. As great as Trenbolone is, it can cause a slight retention of water which can mean the difference on the day, hence why I personally drop it at the very end.

Trenbolone Enanthate - This is just as effective as Acetate, however it is just slower to get going and initial changes happen slower as result. If you plan to stay on Trenbolone for a period of time whilst following a lean growth protocol that involves this drug or bring body fat levels down in general, then this would be my ester of choice. The main reason is that of a practical one, which is that you can get away injecting three times a week or even twice at a pinch and that it is taken up in solution allowing for comfortable 200mg/ml versions. Most other esters are 100mg/ml or less which can cause issues with injecting for sustained periods at higher doses. Acetate can be made up as much as 200mg/ml but it will be painful as strong solvents are needed to do this and it drop out of solution from time to time. 200mg/ml means you can dose well with much less injection volume which is a great if your planning to stay on a while. Although I do like and prefer how with acetate changes come about quickly from injection and water can be manipulated more easily, Enanthate works just as effectively overall if you keep the doses regular.

I will use Enanthate or a blend with Acetate for 90% of the time and I reserve Acetate use for occasions where I want to dial in for a brief period. Generally, I use Trenbolone for several months at a time and incorporate some reductions in doses and off periods like I do with most drugs. Trenbolone brings an addictive look which is easier to maintain, hence why many serious body builders use the drug on a regular basis. I have found that I am at my largest and most conditioned state when Trenbolone doses are higher with correctly dosed drugs like Superdrol and EQ in combination. HGH will increase this look further. It took me a while to master, however once I figured out the ratios of drugs being used I was able to maintain a large, defined and consistent look for lengthy periods with little effort.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*Superdrol*

I find Superdrol to be one of the best steroids available as is it provides excellent muscle volume with low levels of water beneath the skin. Just 20-30mg every day is plenty when used in conjunction with other steroids which makes it very potent. 20mg is generally what I would run for longer periods, however if I wanted extra volume or even when I have used it for pushing for size, 30mg would be the dose I would use in conjunction with other steroids.

I find that Superdrol stacks very well with drugs like Trenbolone, Masteron, Proviron, EQ as it can leave you looking very vascular and volumised but without the need to put too much effort into your diet so long as you are already lean. When using for size there are better alternatives, I would give preference to Androl or Deca Durabolin as I can use these for long periods with no adverse effects. Superdrol can leave my kidneys feeling tight when dosed at 30mg after a number of weeks which I do not like, hence why I limit 30mg for brief periods. Going beyond this dose is not needed and even more stressful on the body.

I have used Superdrol successfully at just 30mg daily with 25mg of Proviron daily for several weeks after coming off Trenbolone and other drugs and managed to keep a good condition and reasonable volume for this period although it is not advisable drug to use to cycle down on. I find oestrogen not to be a concern with this drug as it is very dry and compliments other dry drugs as it provided great volume.

HGH combined with Superdrol produces some pretty amazing results, again I would use the usual drugs to deliver the best over all look, but HGH certainly expands on Superdrols volume when used.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

How would you compare the modern Superdrol clones compared to the original American Superdrol from a few years ago?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I am a big fan of 2a,17a di methyl etiocholan 3-one, 17b-ol which I think mimics the original version very well, you can buy off the shelf and is much cheaper than importing black market Supedrol, plus I believe more reliable if you stick to the right brands. I have not really varied brands much as once I find something I like I stick with it and fortunately the product I use I found quickly.

Do you use Superdrol, it looks like you do?


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> I am a big fan of 2a,17a di methyl etiocholan 3-one, 17b-ol which I think mimics the original version very well, you can buy off the shelf and is much cheaper than importing black market Supedrol, plus I believe more reliable if you stick to the right brands. I have not really varied brands much as once I find something I like I stick with it and fortunately the product I use I found quickly.
> 
> Do you use Superdrol, it looks like you do?


I have done previously with good results, I've only ever used it whilst in a deficit so I probably haven't felt the full benefits of it yet. At the moment and for the pic in my avi I'm on 200mg Test per week and 525mg Tren.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> I have done previously with good results, I've only ever used it whilst in a deficit so I probably haven't felt the full benefits of it yet. At the moment and for the pic in my avi I'm on 200mg Test per week and 525mg Tren.


You have got very good volume in your muscles and the separation, lines and conditioning is impressive, especially on modest doses. Obviously overall size/weight etc has a lot to do with doses, but still this is still very good, you naturally have a good response to these steroids if that is what you where taking in that picture. I could not be that dry on 525mg of Testosterone without Masteron/Proviron and Aromasin. Certainly going in the right direction and you still got plenty of years in the bag.

Superdrol is at its best when you apply it whilst in this sort of condition.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Alien8ed said:


> You have got very good volume in your muscles and the separation, lines and conditioning is impressive, especially on modest doses. Obviously overall size/weight etc has a lot to do with doses, but still this is still very good, you naturally have a good response to these steroids if that is what you where taking in that picture. I could not be that dry on 525mg of Testosterone without Masteron/Proviron and Aromasin. Certainly going in the right direction and you still got plenty of years in the bag.
> 
> Superdrol is at its best when you apply it whilst in this sort of condition.


Thanks man. I have been slowly cutting and trying to get myself in to a prime condition to bulk, started my surplus this week. Gonna bulk on a 'dry' stack of Test/Tren/Mast/Var in a fairly large surplus as I've found I don't respond well to the usual bulking compounds like Anadrol/Deca.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I have a friend who is a big guy and an ex competitor and he bulks on Winstrol, he swears by it. Got to go with what works for you.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed going overboard with the self promotion.

guy must make Jay Cutler look like a fitness model


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## Armitage Shanks (Jul 7, 2014)

@Alien8ed Great thread and really informative


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> Alien8ed going overboard with the self promotion.
> 
> guy must make Jay Cutler look like a fitness model


You should share a few little tips with us too.


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## Prince Adam (Mar 17, 2012)

DLTBB said:


> You should share a few little tips with us too.


He does via PM


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

I have skim read the thread. It appears that some members appreciate the information within.

I found a particular topic slightly contradictive. You state: *A couple times a month I will have a full English in addition to or in place of my regular routine. *I interpret this as occasional treat.

Then you say you have take aways and beers, and sweets as a snack before bedtime? You leave lunch longer than 4 hours for better teeth? How about take aways and sugar? Isn't that bad for teeth.

@Alien8ed Can you corroborate on this!


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> I have skim read the thread. It appears that some members appreciate the information within.
> 
> I found a particular topic slightly contradictive. You state: *A couple times a month I will have a full English in addition to or in place of my regular routine. *I interpret this as occasional treat.
> 
> ...


Hello,

I eat a full English because I like them, that point was more to suggest that sometimes I break the mold from my breakfast routine and that you can eat this sort of food and be in good condition. The reason I do not eat it more regularly is the preservatives used in the meats are not good for you and I believe the best way to avoid excessive exposer to a particular harmful toxin is to vary what you eat. Sadly most food nowadays is tainted with some form of toxin, some foods are better than others, but all you can do is your best to reduce you are exposed to whilst still eating what you like to eat. Bodybuilding for me is a lifestyle, I am not going to make my life miserable by eating foods that I find boring or very repetitive, plus I have found that there is no need to do this. This morning I had my usual breakfast and then 2 hours later I had a full English (no toast) as I was hungry, some times I skip my regular breakfast routine and just have the full English. Other than these two things I very rarely eat anything else. I do not eat breads or cereals for breakfasts.

I do not have take away every night, they are infrequent and what I eat at night depends on what I am doing, again the point was to make that I do not have to eat like a broken record stuck on repeat, this week I have had one take out (pizza) and ate out at the pub once (burger and chips), typically I will have two days a week where I eat something that someone else serves you ready. At the minute I am eating sweet food about once a week, mostly eating things like cheeses on a night if I am hungry, however through the summer it was a little bit of something I like each night (chocolate). Beer wise, I had 4 cans of Kopperberg all week, in the summer I drink a little more as I go out more to eat at pubs etc and I like a Guinness when I am out. We generally have less take outs in the summer and eat out more, but generally the twice a week thing still applies. I prefer like to eat anything sweet at the end of the day, simply because I do not crave sugar later in the day as I go to bed shortly after. If I eat sweet food early in the day, I tend to look at other sweet food more fondly that day.

Yes excess sugar is bad for the teeth but I do not really eat it in excess. If I cut out sugars completely my physique suffers, hence why I do not do that. In regards to the teeth, so long as your allowing your teeth time to re-mineralise sufficiently you won't have any issues unless you have a medical condition etc. Allegedly teeth do not mineralise when the PH balance in the mouth is out (after eating food), so eating sweet food often can have a bad effect as not only are you reducing the time the tooth is in a state of repair, you are increasing the duration that the tooth is under attack by erosion. Apparently it takes around 20 minutes to balance out the PH in your mouth after eating or drinking something sweet. It becomes even more of a problem (not just for teeth) when you are consuming foods that are known to block key nutrients from being absorbed (phytic acid). Phytic acid has been shown to block several minerals heavily that are found in the teeth, amongst others that are vital for good health. Chocolate, most of the grains and potatoes are very high in phytic acid, plus grains are mostly GMO nowadays which some have been shown to be bad in various aspects of health in animal studies and there are possibilities that some have further nutrient blocking properties. Phytic acid can often be canceled out or heavily reduced by preparing grains correctly as they did in older times due to an enzyme that is present in some grains, however it needs to be in certain conditions to become active , If you would like a good read on this, go here: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/living-with-phytic-acid/

Not all food is bad for the teeth, generally sugars and strong acids are what cause the tooth to wear outside of grinding. When healthy, enamel is very resistant to acid erosion it often takes long periods of nutritional deficiency and diet for them to break down and become problematic. If you eat mostly high fat and protein foods, then your teeth will come under little strain. It is the combination of nutrition, diet and also genetic factors that ultimately dictate the resistance of your teeth to wear from external factors.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

@Alien8ed Thanks, you replies a far too lengty. So you said: The reason I do not eat it more regularly is the preservatives used in the meats are not good for you and *I believe the best way to avoid excessive exposer to a particular harmful toxin is to vary what you eat.*

But you believe self medicating ie using sports enhancing drugs.

Isn't this contradictive?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Just because I partake in one particular thing does not mean I should not care about my health. There are toxins in steroids unless you buy genuine pharmaceutical versions, but personally I believe your lifestyle choices and diet have more of a negative impact than what that actual steroids do (in most instances). People mostly die of diseases in our part of the world, many of which are slow and painful. I do not think that doing your own research and making your own decisions into improving aspects of your health is a bad thing. At the end of the day, statistically you ****ed anyhow following the masses, so whats that harm in trying alternative methods, you may end up living a stronger, healthier life until you die.

Do your best to restrict things that you know are not good for you and give the body the known tools it needs to work correctly, beyond that there is little you can do if you actually want to have a life.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> You should share a few little tips with us too.


I do, via PM

Don't be expecting chapter and verse though, bodybuilding isn't rocket science.

Its simply your genetic response to training, diet and drugs.

If it doesn't happen when you are doing it haphazardly then it wont happen if you consult a scientist.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> I do, via PM
> 
> Don't be expecting chapter and verse though, bodybuilding isn't rocket science.
> 
> ...


Why don't you take me under your wing and coach me in to a show fella? Give back to the community.


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

> Why don't you take me under your wing and coach me in to a show fella? Give back to the community.


now that would be very interesting.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> Why don't you take me under your wing and coach me in to a show fella? Give back to the community.


You know enough already mate.

You dont need anyone else.

a few tips on posing and stage presentation and you would be good to go.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

@Alien8ed

*There are toxins in steroids unless you buy genuine pharmaceutical versions*

Are you saying that genuine pharmaceutical drugs are harmless?

*People mostly die of diseases in our part of the world, many of which are slow and painful *.

Are you from a third world country?You're either a genuine person, I doubt you're.

Or you're trying to gain members trust in you then start selling via pm to the naive once!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

nitrogen said:


> @Alien8ed
> 
> *There are toxins in steroids unless you buy genuine pharmaceutical versions*
> 
> ...


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> @Alien8ed
> 
> *There are toxins in steroids unless you buy genuine pharmaceutical versions*
> 
> ...


Nope, I am saying that their proclaimed negatives may be grossly over rated and some may even be completely bogus.

No, I am white and British. Again I am not trying to sell anything, but I see your point, most people in this world want something in return for anything they do. Time shows peoples true colours.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> You know enough already mate.
> 
> You dont need anyone else.
> 
> a few tips on posing and stage presentation and you would be good to go.


The judges will score me higher if they know I have been mentored by the great banzi.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

alien8ed are you aware of the effects fluoride in toothpaste and water supplies can have?

*Understanding the Different Fluorides*

There are two types of fluoride. *Calcium Fluoride,* which appears naturally in underground water supplies, is relatively benign. However, too much consumed daily can lead to bone or dental problems. Calcium is used to counter fluoride poisoning when it occurs. This redeeming factor indicates that the calcium in naturally formed calcium fluoride neutralizes much of fluoride's toxic effects.

On the other hand, the type of fluorides added to water supplies and other beverages and foods are waste products of the nuclear, aluminum, and now mostly the phosphate (fertilizer) industries. The EPA has classified these as toxins: fluorosilicate acid, sodium silicofluoride, and sodium fluoride.

For this article, the term *Sodium Fluoride* will include all three types. Sodium fluoride is used for rat poison and as a pesticide. According to a scientific study done several years ago, _Comparative Toxicity of Fluorine Compounds_, industrial waste sodium fluorides are 85 times more toxic than naturally occurring calcium fluoride.

*Health Hazards of Sodium Fluoride*

Generally, most fluoride entering the body is not easily eliminated. It tends to accumulate in the body's bones and teeth. Recently, it has been discovered to accumulate even more in the pineal gland, located in the middle of the brain.

This consequence of dental fluorosis, which seriously harms teeth, from daily fluoridation has been documented. Yet, the American Dental Association (AMA) continues beating a dead horse, promoting fluoride. There is a refusal to admit that instead of preventing tooth decay, fluoride causes even more dental harm.

The flood of sodium fluoride in water and food also creates other more serious health problems that are not widely publicized, even suppressed. Nevertheless, in addition to fluorosis, independent labs and reputable researchers have linked the following health issues with daily long term intake of sodium fluoride:

**Cancer*
**Genetic DNA Damage*
**Thyroid Disruption* - affecting the complete endocrine system and leading to obesity
**Neurological* - diminished IQ and inability to focus, lethargy and weariness.
**Alzheimer's Disease*
**Melatonin Disruption,* lowers immunity to cancer, accelerates aging, sleep disorders.
**Pineal Gland,* calcification, which clogs this gland located in the middle of the brain.

*How Did We Get Stuck With Stuff?*

According to investigative journalist Christopher Bryson, author of _The Fluoride Deception_, getting large quantities of sodium fluoride into the water and food system was a ploy of public relations sponsored by the industries who were saddled with getting rid of the toxic materials.

Fluoride was necessary for the processing or enriching of uranium. The pro-fluoride propaganda was started during the Manhattan Project to create the first atom bombs in the 1940's. The spin was to convince workers and locals where the largest nuclear plant was located in Tennessee that fluoride was not only safe, it was good for kids' dental health.

In the early 1950's, the notorious spin master and father of advertising, Edward Bernays, continued the campaign for adding fluorides to water supplies as an experiment in engineering human consent! Then the AMA picked up on the dental issue and endorsed sodium fluoride's addition to water supplies. The few dissenting health studies and reports were usually squashed. Those dissenting voices were dismissed as quacks regardless of their credentials.

Approximately 2/3 of the USA water supply is laced with sodium fluoride. Sodium fluoride is a common pesticide. So that residue is in some foods. Some sodas, packaged orange juices, and even bottled drinking water for babies contain fluoride additives. Buyer beware. Read your labels carefully.

*Avoiding Fluoridation*

Keep in mind that boiling only increases the concentration of fluoride to water more. But removing fluoride from tap water is not so difficult. Reverse osmosis works well for removing fluorides. If you own your home and can spring for the bucks, you can have one installed under the sink in your kitchen. That makes things very convenient for your fluoride removal from tap water.

If this is not your situation, grab a couple of large jugs and fill them up from reverse osmosis machines in health food stores, supermarkets, and other locations. There are several such machines around, usually labeled as using reverse osmosis, and they usually take coins. So it is the most accessible and cheapest way to go if you can't install one where you live.

*The Physiological Importance of the Pineal Gland*

During the late 1990's in England, a scientist by the name of Jennifer Luke undertook the first study the effects of sodium fluoride on the pineal gland. She determined that the pineal gland, located in the middle of the brain, was a target for fluoride. The pineal gland simply absorbed more fluoride than any other physical matter in the body, even bones.

Because of the pineal gland's importance to the endocrine system, her conclusions were a breakthrough. Her study provided the missing link to a lot of physiological damage from sodium fluoride that had been hypothesized but not positively connected. A veritable root source for the chain reaction of blocked endocrine activity had been isolated.

Good news though. Frequent exposure to outdoor sunshine, 20 minutes or so at a time, will help stimulate a fluoride calcified pineal gland. Just make sure you take off your hat. This is more important than most realize, because the pineal gland affects so much other enzyme and endocrine activity, including melatonin production.

*The 2012 Connection*

First a bit about 2012, a date many have heard about. According to Carlos Barrios, anthropologist, historian, and investigator who was initiated as a Mayan ceremonial priest and spiritual guide, "Anthropologists visit the temple sites and read the inscriptions . . . but they do not read the signs correctly. . . . Other people write about prophecy in the name of the Maya. They say that the world will end in December 2012. The Mayan elders are angry with this. The world will not end. It will be transformed."

Carlos Barrios goes on to say that the transformation will be both spiritual and physical. The transition started in 1987. He says that we are in a spiritual transition from the rule of materialism, greed, and enmity to a new period of cooperation and peace - but not without difficulty. The current oligarchy is happy with what they have and don't want to give it up, and they are powerful. The Mayans claim that 2012 marks the end of the period of the fourth sun and the beginning of the fifth sun.

Carlos points out that adversarial revolution against the ruling class will not work. It is up to those who want this shift to connect with others of like mind and begin actively creating networks of real cooperation. The old will crumble. The new period will dawn with its growing pains, the severity of which depends on our ability to accept what is happening and go with the flow. This, he says, requires evolving to unconditional love, with an open and simple heart, forgiveness, and cooperation with less ego competition.

*Connecting the Pineal Gland to This 2012 Matter*

Well, what does all this have to do with the pineal gland? A lot. It is considered a portal to the inner or higher self by yogi masters, including Paramahansa Yogananda, author of _Autobiography of a Yogi_. Psychics consider it to be the link for inter dimensional experiences. It is associated with what many call the third eye or sixth chakra, which is a doorway to higher consciousness and bliss.

And it is vital for supporting intuition, an ability that will be needed during hard times. So it is necessary to evolve spiritually in order to help create better understanding, acceptance of our fellow humans, and easier group cooperation. Meditation is a part of this evolving. That and a little sunshine, good rest and food, can cause a calcified pineal gland to loosen up and allow that portal to open.

An unusual psychiatrist, professor of medicine at University of New Mexico, and practicing Buddhist, Dr. Rick Strassman, MD, has written a book based on actual human studies of people under the psychedelic drug, DMT, titled _DMT, The Spirit Molecule_. He has discovered, among other things, that the pineal gland is a source of DMT production during birth and at death, and during near death or mystical experiences. This chemical approach corroborates the idea of the pineal gland as a portal, where the spirit passes through to other dimensions, either entering this physical realm or leaving it.

South American and Central American shamans use Ayahuasca, an herbal potion that stimulates DMT for psychological healing and spiritual initiation ceremonies. They have expanded their ceremonies with Ayahuasca by traveling throughout the world or opening their local facilities to non natives. They are doing this urgently in anticipation of 2012. Their desire is to jump start and expand individuals' consciousness so the transition of consciousness will be facilitated and incorporate as many as possible.

This information is meant to link the physical realm's pineal gland to higher states of awareness and other realms. The point is not to advocate or discourage psychedelic drug use, but to encourage health, meditation and spiritual growth by maintaining a fluoride free pineal gland. 2012 is approaching. Time to get in shape!

Sources:

Fluroide: Friend or Foe? By Devid De Santo (www.lewrockwell.com)

Germans and Russians Used Fluoride to Make Prisoners Stupid and Docile, by Devvy Kidd
(www.newswithviews.com)

Fluoride Accumulates in the Pineal Gland, by Sepp Hasslberger of Health Supreme (www.newmediaexplorer.org)

Transcribed interview of journalist Christopher Bryson: The Fluoride Deception: How a Nuclear Waste Byproduct Made Its Way Into the Nation's Drinking Water http://www.democracynow.org/2004/6/17/the_fl...

Article by Ingrid Nairman highlighting Mayan lecture in Santa Fe, NM by Carlos Barrios
ingridnaiman.com/subscription_lists/email_index.html.

The Pineal Gland: Interface Between the Spiritual and Physical Planes?
(http://circleof13.blogspot.com)

The Fluoride Debate - (www.fluoridedebate.com)

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/026364_fluoride_pineal_gland_sodium.html#ixzz3snoJDdjr

In the 1990s, a British scientist, Jennifer Luke, discovered that fluoride accumulates to strikingly high levels in the pineal gland. (Luke 2001). The pineal gland is located between the two hemispheres of the brain and is responsible for the synthesis and secretion of the hormone melatonin. Melatonin maintains the body's circadian rhythm (sleep-wake cycle), regulates the onset of puberty in females, and helps protect the body from cell damage caused by free radicals.

While it is not yet known if fluoride accumulation affects pineal gland function, preliminary animal experiments found that fluoride reduced melatonin levels and shortened the time to puberty. (Luke, 1997). Based on this and other evidence, the National Research Council has stated that "fluoride is likely to cause decreased melatonin production and to have other effects on normal pineal function, which in turn could contribute to a variety of effects in humans" (NRC, 2006, p. 256).

*The Pineal Gland Has Highest Levels of Fluoride in Body*

As a calcifying tissue that is exposed to a high volume of blood flow, the pineal gland is a major target for fluoride accumulation in humans. In fact, the calcified parts of the pineal gland (hydroxyapatite crystals) contain the highest fluoride concentrations in the human body (up to 21,000 ppm F), higher than either bone or teeth. (Luke 1997; 2001). Although the soft tissue of the pineal does not accumulate fluoride to the same extent as the calcified part, it does contain higher levels of fluoride than found than in other types of soft tissue in the body - with concentrations (~300 ppm F) that are known in other contexts to inhibit enzymes. While the impacts of these fluoride concentrations in the pineal are not yet fully understood, studies have found that calcified deposits in the pineal are associated with decreased numbers of functioning pinealocytes and reduced melatonin production (Kunz et al., 1999) as well as impairments in the sleep-wake cycle. (Mahlberg 2009).

*Fluoride and Earlier Puberty in Girls*

In the United States, children are reaching the age of puberty at earlier ages than in the past - a trend that carries health consequences, including a heightened risk for breast cancer. Some evidence indicates that fluoride, via its effect on the pineal, could be a contributing cause to this trend. In animal studies, for example, fluoride exposure has been found to cause a decrease in the amount of circulating melatonin and lead to an accelerated sexual maturation in females. (Luke 1997). Similar findings have been reported in two epidemiological studies of human populations drinking fluoridated water. In the first published fluoridation safety experiment in Newburgh, New York, the authors found that girls living in a fluoridated community reached puberty five months earlier than girls living in a non-fluoridated community. (Schlesinger 1956) Later, in 1983, Farkas reported that postmenarcheal girls were "present at younger ages in the higher fluoride town than in the low-fluoride town, although the reported median ages were the same."

The purpose was to discover whether fluoride (F) accumulates in the aged human pineal gland. The aims were to determine (a) F-concentrations of the pineal gland (wet), corresponding muscle (wet) and bone (ash); (b) calcium-concentration of the pineal. Pineal, muscle and bone were dissected from 11 aged cadavers and assayed for F using the HMDS-facilitated diffusion, F-ionspecific electrode method. Pineal calcium was determined using atomic absorption spectroscopy. Pineal and muscle contained 297±257 and 0.5±0.4 mg F/kg wet weight, respectively; bone contained 2,037±1,095 mg F/kg ash weight. The pineal contained 16,000±11,070 mg Ca/kg wet weight. There was a positive correlation between pineal F and pineal Ca (r = 0.73, p<0.02) but no correlation between pineal F and bone F. By old age, the pineal gland has readily accumulated F and its F/Ca ratio is higher than bone.

The pineal gland is a small organ situated near the centre of the brain. It is intimately related to the third ventricle. It is composed of pinealocytes and neuroglial cells amongst which ramifies a rich network of capillaries and postganglionic nerve fibres. The pineal gland is a mineralizing tissue. Its calcified concretions range from a few micrometres to several millimetres in diameter. The larger ones are identifiable on skull X-rays, cranial CT and MRI scans. The concretions are composed of hydroxyapatite (HA) [Angervall et al., 1958; Earle, 1965; Mabie and Wallace, 1974; Galliani et al., 1990; Bocchi and Valdre, 1993] whose chemical composition, morphology, and unit cell dimensions are similar to HA in bone and teeth [Mabie and Wallace, 1974; Bocchi and Valdre, 1993]. The pineal (calcified and uncalcified) has a high trace element content (zinc, iron, manganese, magnesium, strontium and copper) in humans [Krstic, 1976; Michotte et al., 1977] and in rats [Humbert and Pévet, 1991, 1996]. Michotte et al. [1977] suggested that, within the pineal, there are areas which are heavily loaded with calcium and which attract trace elements, even though these calcium-rich areas are not yet identifiable as concretions. Calcium is distributed throughout the pinealocytes: in the mitochondria, Golgi apparatus, cytoplasm, and nucleus [Krstic, 1976, 1995; Welsh, 1984; Pizarro et al., 1989, Lewczuk et al., 1994].

Fluoride does not accumulate in brain. Of all tissues, brain has the lowest fluoride concentration [Jenkins, 1991; Whitford, 1996; Ekstrand, 1996]. It is generally agreed that the blood-brain barrier restricts the passage of fluoride into the central nervous system. The human pineal gland is outside the blood-brain barrier [Arendt, 1995]. It is one of a few unique regions in the brain (all midline structures bordering the third and fourth ventricles) where the blood-brain barrier is weak. Cells in these regions require direct and unimpeded contact with blood [Rapoport, 1976]. Therefore, pinealocytes have free access to fluoride in the bloodstream. This fact, coupled with the presence of HA, suggest that the pineal gland may sequester fluoride from the bloodstream.

The purpose of this study was to discover whether fluoride accumulates in the aged pineal gland. Its objectives were to determine (a) the fluoride concentrations of the pineal gland (wet), corresponding muscle (wet) and bone (ash); (b) the pineal concentrations of calcium and HA.

*Materials and Methods*
The pineal glands and corresponding bone and muscle samples were dissected from I I aged cadavers (7 females and 4 males) in the Anatomy Department, UCL. The mean age was 82 years (range 70-100).

*Preparation of the Samples*
The pineal glands were blotted dry with tissue paper, weighed to the nearest milligram, homogenized in I ml double-distilled water using an agate pestle and mortar and sonicated for 10 min. Each pineal was divided into two portions that were analysed separately. Muscle samples weighing about 100 mg were treated likewise. Bone samples were cleaned of any adherent soft tissue with a razor blade, dried overnight at 110'C in an oven, and ashed (in porcelain crucibles with no fixatives) at 550-600°C in a muffle furnace for 8 h. Bone ash was pulverized into a fine powder using an agate pestle and mortar. Bone solutions were made by dissolving known weights of bone ash in 3 ml 2 _M_ HC104. Bone solutions were analysed for fluoride in replicates of six and the mean fluoride concentrations in bone were calculated.

*Determination of the Fluoride Concentrations*
The homogenized pineal, homogenized muscle and bone solutions were assayed for fluoride using the HMDS-facilitated diffusion, F-ion-specific electrode method originally described by Taves [19681 and modified by Whitford and Reynolds [1979]. The protocol was further modified for use with the pineal glands. The concentration and volume of the base trap were increased to 0.5 _M_ NaOH and 100 µl, respectively; the strength of the acetate buffer was increased to 50 µl 2 _M_ acetic acid and the volume of the analysed solution was adjusted to 150 µl with double-distilled water. Diffusion time for pineal and muscle was 3 days; for bone 18 h.

Standards: pineal: 1,000, 2,500 and 5,000 nmol F; muscle: 5, 50 and 500 nmol F; bone: 10, 50, 100 and 500 nmol F.

*Determination of the Concentration of Total Calcium in the Human Pineal Gland*
The acid digests, which remained in the Petri dishes following the separation of fluoride from the pineal glands, were wet-acid ashed to decompose the organic component. The acid digests were placed in clean glass tubes and I ml conc. HN03 was added. The tubes were heated slowly to 50°C and maintained at 50°C for 30 min in a fume cupboard. The procedure was repeated using I ml 60% HC104. Two millilitre of double-distilled water was added to each tube and the volumes were measured. Calcium concentration was determined using atomic absorption spectroscopy.

*Statistical Methods*
Results were expressed as means ± SD. Differences between the groups were tested for significance using unpaired Student's t-test. Differences were regarded as statistically significant when p<0.05.

Pearson's correlation coefficient was used to test association between pineal fluoride and pineal calcium; and pineal fluoride and bone fluoride.









Fig. 1. The relationship between the calcium and fluoride contents of ten aged human pineal glands.

*Results*
The aged pineal gland weighed 112±52 mg (56-198 mg). Pineal had a significantly higher F concentration than muscle: 297 ± 257 (14-875) vs. 0.5 ± 0.4 (0.2-1.5) mg F/kg wet weight (p<0.001). Bone contained 2,037± 1,095 (838-3,711) mg F/kg ash weight. The mean coefficient of variation between the replicates of F contents of bone solutions was 2.5 ± 1. 1 %. There was no correlation between pineal F and bone F. The pineal gland contained 16,000±11,070 (4,600-37,250) mg Ca/kg wet weight. Pineal fluoride and pineal calcium were directly correlated: r = 0.73, p < 0.02, n = 10, slope= 0.02 (fig. 1). Assuming stoichiometric HA, the pineal contained an estimated 40,000 ± 27,700 mg HA/kg wet weight (11,600-93,200 mg HA/kg). The estimated F concentration of pineal HA was 9,000 ± 7,800 mg/kg (650-21,800 mg/kg). Figure 2 shows that the F/calcium ratio was higher in pineal HA than in corresponding bone HA.

*Discussion*
This study has added new knowledge on the fate and distribution of fluoride in the body. It has shown for the first time that fluoride readily accumulates in the human pineal gland although there was considerable inter-individual variation (14-875 mg F/kg). By old age, the average pineal gland contains about the same amount of fluoride as teeth (300 mg F/kg) since dentine and whole enamel contain 300 and 100 mg F/kg, respectively [Newbrun, 1986]. Unlike brain capillaries, pineal capillaries allow the free passage of fluoride through the endothelium. If there had been a bloodbrain barrier in the pineal, it would have prevented the passage of fluoride into the pinealocytes and the pineal fluoride content would have been similar to or lower than muscle. This was obviously not the case: the fluoride concentration of the pineal was significantly higher (p<0.001) than muscle. The high fluoride levels in the pineal are presumably due to the large surface area of the HA crystallites both intra- and extracellularly. In addition, the pineal has a profuse blood flow and high capillary density; pineal blood flow (4 ml/min/g) is second only to the kidney [Arendt, 19951.

The extent of pineal calcification also varied between individuals: ranging from 4,600 to 37,250 mg Ca/kg wet weight. One of the aged pineals had very little precipitation. This supports the age independence of pineal calcification and agrees with previous studies [Cooper, 1932; Arieti, 1954; Tapp and Huxley, 197 1; Hasegawa et aL, 1987; Galliani et al., 1990]. The estimated fluoride concentration of pineal HA was 9,000 ± 7,800 mg/kg. The F/Ca ratio was higher in pineal HA than in corresponding bone (fig. 2). The extremely high level of substitution in the crystal structure of pineal HA by fluoride illustrates the readiness with which fluoride replaces the hydroxyl ion in the HA crystal. By old age, pineal HA has a higher fluoride content than other biological apatites. Unlike pineal concentrations of magnesium, manganese, zinc and copper, which, although very high, were generally within the limits found in bone and teeth [Michotte et al., 1977].









Fig. 2. A comparison of the F/Ca ratio in aged pineal HA and corresponding bone ash (µg F/100 µg calcium). Calcium content of bone determined stoichiometrically.

There was no corTelation between pineal fluoride and bone fluoride. Therefore, unlike bone, pineal fluoride concentrations are not indicators of long-term fluoride exposure and body burden. Pineal fluoride, however, was significantly correlated with pineal calcium.

The methodology used in this project was accurate because the F values obtained for bone and muscle agreed with literature values. For example, the mean fluoride concentration of bone from elderly subjects was 2,000 mg/kg ash weight which agrees with previous studies using bone from subjects of a similar age [Ebie et al., 1992; Charen et al., 1979; Zipkin et al., 1958]. In this study, muscle contained 0.5 mg F/kg wet weight, a typical fluoride concentration for soft tissue [WHO, 1984]. The pineal and bone were treated differently during sample preparation (the pineal was wet-acid ashed, bone was dry ashed) which may somewhat obscure a direct comparison of the fluoride contents of pineal HA and bone. However, it is unlikely that there would be a significant analytical error.

In conclusion, this study presented evidence that fluoride readily accumulates in the aged pineal. Fluoride may also accumulate in a child's pineal because significant amounts of calcification have been demonstrated in the pineals from young children [Cooper, 1932; Wurtman, 1968; Kerényi and Sarkar, 1968; Tapp and Huxley, 197 1; Doskocil, 1984]. In fact, calcification of the developing enamel organs and the pineal gland occur concurrently. If fluoride does accumulate in the child's pineal (this needs verification), the pinealocytes will be exposed to relatively high local concentrations of fluoride. This could affect pineal metabolism in much the same way that high local concentrations of fluoride in the developing enamel organ affect ameloblast function. Research is presently underway to discover whether fluoride affects pineal physiology during childhood: specifically pineal synthesis of melatonin.

*Acknowledgements*
I acknowledge the Anatomy Deptartment, UCL, for providing the pineal glands; Prof. Gary Whitford, Medical College of Georgia, USA, and Gordon Hartman, University of Surrey, for their assistance with the fluoride analysis; Nicholas Porter, The Royal Surrey County Hospital, Guildford, for help with the determination of pineal-calcium concentrations. The Colt Foundation, The Heinz and Anna Kroch Foundation and The New Moorgate Trust funded the research.

*References*


Angervall L, Berger S, Röckert H: A microradiographic and X-ray crystallographic study of calcium in the pineal body and intracranial tumours. Acta Pathol Microbiol Scand 1958;44: 113-119.
Arendt J: Melatonin and the Mammalian Pineal Gland, ed 1. London. Chapman & Hall, 1995, p 17.
Arieti S: The pineal gland in old age. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 1954; 13:482-49 1.
Bocchi G, Valdre G: Physical, chemical, and mineralogical characterization of carbonate-hydroxyapatite concretions of the human pineal gland. J Inorg Biochem 1993;49:209-220.
Charen J, Taves DR, Stamm JW, Parkins FM: Bone fluoride concentrations associated with fluoridated drinking water. Calcif Tiss Int 1979;27: 95-99.
Cooper ERA: The human pineal gland and pineal cysts. J Anat (Lond) 1932;67:28-46.
Doskocil M: Development of concrements in the human pineal body. Folia Morphol (Praha) 1984;32:16-26.
Earle KM: X-ray diffraction and other studies of the calcareous deposits in human pineal glands. J Neuropathol Exp Neurol 1965;4: 108-118.
Ebie DM, Deaton TG, Wilson FC, Bawden JW: Fluoride concentrations in human and rat bone. J Public Health Dent 1992;52:288-29).
Ekstrand J: Fluoride metabolism; in Fejerskov 0, Ekstrand J, Burt B (eds): Fluorides in Dentistry. Munksgaard, Copenhagen, 1996, pp 55-68.
Galliani 1, Falcieri E, Giangaspero F, Valdre G, Mongiorgi R: A preliminary study of human pineal gland concretions: Structural and chemical analysis. Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1990;66: 615-622.
Hasegawa A, Ohtsubo K, Mori W: Pineal gland in old age; quantitative and qualitative morphological study of 168 human autopsy cases. Brain Res 1987;409:343-349.
Humbert W, Pévet P: Calcium content and concretions of pineal glands of young and old rats, Cell Tissue Res 199 1;263:593-596.
Humbert W, Pévet P: Electron probe x-ray microanalysis of the elemental composition of the pineal gland of young adults and aged rats. J Pineal Res 1996;20:39-44.
Jenkins GN: Physiology of fluoride; in Murray JJ, Rugg-Gunn AJ, Jenkins GN (eds): Fluorides in Caries Prevention, ed 3. London, Butterworth-Heinemann, 199 1, pp 262-294.
Kerényi NA, Sarkar K: The postnatal transformation of the pineal gland. Acta Morphol Acad Sci Hung 1968; 16:223-236.
Krstic R: A combined scanning and transmission electron microscopic study and electron probe microanalysis of human pineal acervuli. Cell Tiss Res 1976; 174:129-137.
Krstic R: Ultracytochemical localization of calcium in the superficial pineal gland of the Mongolian gerbil. J Pineal Res 1985;2:21-37.
Lewczuk B, Przybylska B, Wyrzykowski Z: Distribution of calcified concretions and calcium ions in the pig pineal gland. Folia Histochem Cytobiol 1994;32:243-249.
Mabie CP, Wallace BM: Optical, physical and chemical properties of pineal gland calcifications. Calcif Tissue Res 1974; 16:59-7 1.
Michotte Y, Lowenthal A, Knaepen L, Collard M, Massart DL: A morphological and chemical study of calcification of the pineal gland. J Neurol 1977;215:209-219.
Newbrun E: Fluorides and Dental Caries, ed 3. Springfield, Thomas, 1986.
Pizarro MDL, Gil JAL, Vasallo JL, Munoz Barragan L: Distribution of calcium in the pineal glands of normal rats. Adv Pineal Res 1989; 3:39-42.
Rapoport SI: Blood-Brain Barrier in Physiology and Medicine. New York, Raven Press, 1976, p 77-78.
Tapp E, Huxley M: The weight and degree of calcification of the pineal gland. J Pathol 197 1; 105:31-39.
Taves DR: Separation of F by rapid diffusion using hexamethyldisiloxane. Talanta 1968;15:969-974.
Welsh MG: Cytochemical analysis of calcium distribution in the superficial pineal gland of the Mongolian gerbil. J Pineal Res 1984;1:305-316.
Whitford GM: The Metabolism and Toxicity of Fluoride. Monogr Oral Sci, 16, ed 2. Basel, Karger, 1996.
Whitford GM, Reynolds KE: Plasma and developing enamel fluoride concentrations during chronic acid-base disturbances. J Dent Res 1979;58:2058-2065.
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Wurtman RJ: The pineal gland; in Endocrine Pathology. Baltimore, Williams & Wilkins, 1968, pp 117-132.
Zipkin 1, McClure FJ, Leone NC, Lee WA: Fluoride deposition in human bones after prolonged ingestion of fluoride in drinking water. US Public Health Rep 1958;73


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Hello, yes I am Banzi. Luckily it is not added to the water supply in my area (although I rarely drink tap water) and I avoid tooth pastes and mouth washes that contain it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Hello, yes I am Banzi. Luckily it is not added to the water supply in my area (although I rarely drink tap water) and I avoid tooth pastes and mouth washes that contain it.


I drink lots of tap water and I also eat toothpaste.

I have to do this to try and bring my intelligence levels down to suit a given audience.


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

banzi said:


> I drink lots of tap water and I also eat toothpaste.
> 
> I have to do this to try and bring my intelligence levels down to suit a given audience.


What are the macros in a tube of Colgate?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> What are the macros in a tube of Colgate?


I dont count them, although if I eat a whole tube I only have a light breakfast the day after.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

@Alien8ed

*People mostly die of diseases** in our part of the world, many of which are slow and painful *.

*No, I am white and British*

I have not heard of a particular part "of the world " in Britain where people die of deaseas es. Maybe during the outbreak of cholera

....Did I ask what skin colour skin you were?

Are fluoride toothpaste and mouthwash likely to cause kidney failure ? But you state:

*I am saying that their proclaimed negatives may be grossly over rated and some may even be completely bogus.*


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> @Alien8ed
> 
> *People mostly die of diseases** in our part of the world, many of which are slow and painful *.
> 
> ...


Top 6 killers of people in the UK, all diseases:

Heart and circulatory disease
Cancer 
Respiratory disease 
Nervous system disease 
Digestive disease 
Kidney disease

Not sure about fluoride in small amounts causing failure with the liver and kidneys, but it does mess up other things in a big way.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

you are going to die at some point - its one of the certainty's of life .

if you watch the news then everything in some form of other causes cancer or other disease - unless you are doing things like using ground asbestos in your ventolin inhaler i would not worry yourself about toothpaste and tap water.

*if you are worrying about toothpaste and tap water then you have already made yourself part of another statistic - 1 in 4 people will develop some form of mental health problem in their lifetime.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Alien8ed said:


> Top 6 killers of people in the UK, all diseases:
> 
> Heart and circulatory disease
> Cancer
> ...


like?


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

aqualung said:


> you are going to die at some point - its one of the certainty's of life .
> 
> if you watch the news then everything in some form of other causes cancer or other disease - unless you are doing things* like using ground asbestos in your ventolin inhale*r i would not worry yourself about toothpaste and tap water.
> 
> *if you are worrying about toothpaste and tap water then you have already made yourself part of another statistic - 1 in 4 people will develop some form of mental health problem in their lifetime.


Brilliant


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Iodine in the body, very important for many functions, especially thyroid and immune system. Most people are deficient in studies that have been conducted and there is little to none in most peoples diets (sea weed is rich in it and some other sea foods). Lack of iodine and a surplus of things like fluoride, bromide and chloride which are often very abundant cause displacement of what ever iodine you may get in through your diet (Japanese have a lot of iodine in their diets on average).

Go look it up


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> you are going to die at some point - its one of the certainty's of life .
> 
> if you watch the news then everything in some form of other causes cancer or other disease - unless you are doing things like using ground asbestos in your ventolin inhaler i would not worry yourself about toothpaste and tap water.


Granted we all going to die, but the quality of your life and those close to you whilst you are around is another aspect to consider. Each to their own.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Iodine in the body, very important for many functions, especially thyroid and immune system. Most people are deficient in studies that have been conducted and there is little to none in most peoples diets (sea weed is rich in it and some other sea foods). Lack of iodine and a surplus of things like fluoride, bromide and chloride which are often very abundant cause displacement of what ever iodine you may get in through your diet (Japanese have a lot of iodine in their diets on average).





Alien8ed said:


> Go look it up


eat some sea food.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

> Granted we all going to die, but the quality of your life and those close to you whilst you are around is another aspect to consider. Each to their own.


yes each to there own , if you can show me how well my life might be improved by not drinking tapwater or using toothpaste i might take some notice  , the quality of life of those close to me is up to them - unless of course i try to force my own ideas about things on them :whistling:

i dont think theres anything wrong with your posts or this thread (ive only skim read it tbh) but they are simply *your* experiences with some studies thrown in (that may or may not have any merit) - there nothing new or revelatory in here - that said its a journal of your experiences and beliefs and still makes an interesting read regardless of whether i agree with everything in it.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

aqualung said:


> yes each to there own , if you can show me how well my life might be improved by not drinking tapwater or using toothpaste i might take some notice  , the quality of life of those close to me is up to them - unless of course i try to force my own ideas about things on them :whistling:
> 
> i dont think theres anything wrong with your posts or this thread (ive only skim read it tbh) but they are simply *your* experiences with some studies thrown in (that may or may not have any merit) - there nothing new or revelatory in here - that said its a journal of your experiences and beliefs and still makes an interesting read regardless of whether i agree with everything in it.


without pics its just a 15 year old geek in his bedroom Googling information and regurgitating it.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> yes each to there own , if you can show me how well my life might be improved by not drinking tapwater or using toothpaste i might take some notice  , the quality of life of those close to me is up to them - unless of course i try to force my own ideas about things on them :whistling:
> 
> i dont think theres anything wrong with your posts or this thread (ive only skim read it tbh) but they are simply *your* experiences with some studies thrown in (that may or may not have any merit) - there nothing new or revelatory in here - that said its a journal of your experiences and beliefs and still makes an interesting read regardless of whether i agree with everything in it.


Exactly, never said otherwise, the front page clearly states this. Information is provided to inform, if people want to read it or use any of it, that is up to them.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

yates done an interview about tap water and toothpaste.......it was deep.


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## Carbon-12 (Feb 26, 2013)

One of the most true posts that I've ever read on here. Cheers for that.

I really can't wait until the day I actually make it with a decent physique and turn around to those who said I didn't have good genetics and tell them that they don't understand genetics...


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

I'm confused, how the hell do you keep your teeth clean if you don't use toothpaste or tap water ?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> yates done an interview about tap water and toothpaste.......it was deep.


Yeah I seen that, it had something to do with some form of drug and an internal "antenna" in the brain if I remember correctly. It was very deep in deed.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> One of the most true posts that I've ever read on here. Cheers for that.
> 
> I really can't wait until the day I actually make it with a decent physique and turn around to those who said I didn't have good genetics and tell them that they don't understand genetics...


Build the best you that you can, f**k what everyone else says. Anyone in good health can make very big improvements to their physique, how pleasing it is to someones eye is their opinion only.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Alien8ed said:


> Yeah I seen that, it had something to *do with some form of drug and an internal "antenna" in the brain if I remember correctly. *It was very deep in deed.


So taking a drug to affect a certain part of the brain receptors inot order to keep teeth clean?

I'll find the ST you tube video.

@Alien8ed

No disrespect, there's some good info in your thread unfortunately it appears to be a copy and paste of a theory.

You see, I don't believe in God because I have never seen it and there's plenty of theory to prove why it doesn't exist.

Unless, of course, you can substantiate your thread with a picture holding a tea bag between your left hand's thumb and middle finger I won't consider you being involved in muscle,strength or physique orientated training.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)




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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> So taking a drug to affect a certain part of the brain receptors inot order to keep teeth clean?
> 
> I'll find the ST you tube video.
> 
> ...


No problem


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

mal said:


> yates done an interview about tap water and toothpaste.......it was deep.


he always drank tap water and cleaned his teeth with toothpaste before he became a tinfoil hat,holocaust denier and reptilian overload believer.

odd that.


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## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Alien8ed said:


> No problem


speaks volumes.I am out aka TB


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Alien8ed said:


> Build the best you that you can, f**k what everyone else says. *Anyone in good health *can make very big improvements to their physique, how pleasing it is to someones eye is their opinion only.


did you use anti biotics for priming?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> No problem


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> did you use anti biotics for priming?


No, not something I have heard of tbh


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

banzi said:


> he always drank tap water and cleaned his teeth with toothpaste before he became a tinfoil hat,holocaust denier and reptilian overload believer.
> 
> odd that.


haha yes he does come across a bit strange in his interviews.......


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

Alien8ed said:


> No, not something I have heard of tbh


it was a borreson thing along with other methods....made a lot of sense.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*Trenbolone Cycling & Building A Quality Physique *

I have advocated for several years to use Trenbolone throughout different stages to build a quality physique and have always felt that when it is used for consistently for long periods it adds to the quality of the physique whilst allowing for steady but solid gains to be made whilst reducing fat gain whilst pushing for more muscle. For many years I have been able to avoid eating in excess (bulking) and restricting my diet heavily (cutting) by using this method to make gains or bring about a good condition. I do not believe in getting fat to make gains and I believe that many who follow heavy bulking/cutting regimes and gain excess fat waste significant amounts of time in excessive calorie deficits getting back into shape which could have been done more efficiently by taking a more paced approach with their diet and applying a different method to their drug regime. I obviously make minor alterations to my diet and that of other peoples I advise to help about bringing about changes in my condition, however regardless of what "mode" I am in, food options are in high abundance. I simply keep to a few key fundamentals which are easy to follow and compliment the changes.

With correct use, the cycles I advocate have allowed for more flexibility in the diet in myself and that of others that I have helped. I often use less common methods with all aspects of bodybuilding as I have always felt that common methods are often less efficient and do not suit my lifestyle.

Most of the people I have helped have been able to tolerate Trenbolone reasonably well, sometimes minor issues we have been able to correct through diet and nutrition, however a few suffer from acne and we have taken a different approach. I have found that Trenbolone can be used for long periods with no adverse effects in myself and many most have reported the same. Like with most drugs I would advise Trenbolone is cycled out for periods to give the body a break, although I do admit I have used for several years with little respite.

In regards to mental side effects, I have found that the people that claim they have negative mental issues whilst using steroids in general, but especially claims that Trenbolone turns them into a c**t, really have issues that stem from within which are simply magnified. Steroids certainly can make you more aggressive and assertive, but ultimately it is how you choose to control yourself which will dictate your behaviour. Blaming steroids for poor behavior are simply excuses for the weak minded.

Trenbolone and its dose/ratio in relation to other drugs used will promote different body compositions and support different goals. Generally speaking, you will need to take on some additional water to maximise your potential for growth. Trenbolone generally will push water out of the physique when used at sufficient doses in contrast to that other drugs. Excessive use can lead to additional water in some people. When using Trenbolone for growth I would advise that you do not want to over use it, it should compliment that stack, not dominate it. Other drugs, especially when in combination with Trenbolone are best not over used as these can reduce the potential for growth and reduce water levels in the body. Some examples are:


Proviron
Masteron
Ai's

The goal of my growth cycles is to use drugs that encourage growth but without causing excessive oestrogen as to keep oestrogen inhibiting and blocking drugs to a minimum . The drugs that I have found to best suited for this are set out below, however your personal reaction to each drug will depend on what proves to be best. More often than not, but using one or two of these drugs will be sufficient to promote growth when dosed suitably.


Dianabol
Deca Durabolin
Testosterone
EQ/Boldenone
Androl
Primobolan

There are other options that are more cosmetic such as Anavar, Winstrol and Superdrol which could be used whilst growing.I have found that in myself and most other people they are better an enchaining a persons look rather than promoting growth opposed to the drugs mentioned, although some people I know/have known have built mass gaining stacks around these drugs and been successful. Superdrol I find effective personally, but the higher doses only allow for limited periods, hence why I prefer other option.

People who are more prone to oestrogen related water retention, gyno and fat gain are likely to find that Dianabol and Testosterone more difficult to deal with and are likely to benefit by using alternative drugs. Androl and Deca Durabolin can also be problematic in some people with oestrogen, although I find that oestrogen in these are less pronounced than that of Testosterone and Dianabol. With such people I would advise that they include EQ or Primobolan in their cycles as it will allow them to use less drugs that are oestrogenic. This is particularly useful when doses start to increase. People who do not suffer with oestrogen problems or who can control them easily can also use these as both promote quality muscle, just at a slower pace than some other options. Some examples of combining these drugs (in the addition with Trenbolone and other drugs) in oestrogen sensitive people would be:


Low doses of Dianabol with EQ
Low doses of Dianabol with EQ and low doses of Deca
Low doses of Testosterone with EQ
Low doses of Testosterone with EQ and low doses of Deca
Low doses of Androl with EQ
Low doses of Androl with EQ and low doses of Deca
Low doses of Dianabol with Primobolan
Low doses of Dianabol with EQ and low doses of Deca
Low doses of Testosterone with EQ
Low doses of Testosterone with EQ and low doses of Deca

Please be advised that some people are prone to blood pressure issues and EQ & Androl (especially in combination) are considered by some to be the worst offenders.

Doses will depend on the users level and response however below is what I have found to be the common lowest effective levels of each so someone who has run a few cycles previously can get an idea on low level starting doses if using drugs for growth in the above stacks. I would always advise that you start with singular drugs such as Dianabol & Testosterone at low doses before you start to stack in combination with other drugs and when you do start to stack, use two drugs in varying combinations before moving onto three etc. This will allow the doses to slowly progress and for you to get a feel for the drugs you are using, it is good for your learning curve. I do not advise the use of drugs like Trenbolone until you have spent several months building a base with lose dosed singular and linea stacked cycles, so if this is you and you are reading this, please take your time before attempting this method and start with as low doses as possible.


Low dose Dianabol: 25mg ED
Dow dose Deca 200mg EW
Low dose Testosterone 150mg EW
Low dose Androl: 25mg ED
EQ dose 400mg EW
Primobolan dose 400mg EW

If you tolerate oestrogen well/ have little issues with it, including those who only need a small amount of oestrogen blocking/inhibiting drugs in their cycltes then growth cycles with Trenbolone can often be more simple and just one or two steroids that are effective will be sufficient. If this is you then then I would say to use of one or two of these as often this will often be your best route to promoting optimal growth with steroids:

Deca Durabolin
Dianabol
Testosterone
Androl.

Trenbolone should not dominate the cycle when promoting growth, the whole idea is to provide sufficient stead levels to promote quality and keep fat levels down. Again doses will depend on your level and response and larger guys will often use more, but expect lower effective doses to be around 300mg EW. The preference to the ester you use is entirely up to you, however I would advise that Enanthate is used as it has lower volume (200mg/ml standard), often works out cheaper on the vial and can be used less frequently whilst keeping your levels more stable.

If you are oestrogen prone or pushing higher doses then I would advise that you combine Aromasin with either Masteron/Proviron to oestrogen control. It is important that you do not over do it as having oestrogen that is too low is not good for long term health or muscle gains. I have advised about this earlier in the article and a good starting point is Masteron at 150mg EW or Proviron at 25mg ED with Aromasin 25mg twice a week (spread out). For me I find this to be very effective for up to a decent amount of steroids. If you are finding that this is to much oestrogen control then try using the Aromasin less frequently, if you need more, try taking one more Aromasin each week first then increase Masteron/Proviron doses. Initially it is advised that you do this with related blood work so you can be sure your oestrogen is not too low, however with some experience many of you will learn though changes in your body (body composition, dry skin, hair shedding, well being etc) if you are in a good place.

With all the drugs combined you should aim to find you optimal place for promoting growth. You may need to adjust the ratios between the drugs to provide a more optimal look or the best combination for gains, however please do this slowly and steadily by making minor adjustments at a time. Once you are in a good place and as you grow bigger, doses will naturally progress, however I would advise not to be impatient.

When it comes to improving body composition then I take the approach of reducing the drugs that cause water to be held between the skin and muscles. I want to draw as much water into the muscles as possible whilst drying out the skin. Depending on how you respond to each of the drugs will depend on your route, however with me it simply means removing drugs like Deca Durabolin, Dianabol and reducing Testosterone whilst increasing Trenbolone. In the latter stages I may make some slight changes to diet and increase Masteron/Proviron to dry out a little further depending on the look I am going for. Some people like to use drugs like Anavar and Winstrol in addition to this, I do not find that it is required, however sometimes for something different I do use one or the other towards the end as it can give the look that extra edge. Drugs are still needed to give the muscles volume to give the best look. Such common drugs used are Androl, Superdrol or Testosterone, however if you are oestrogen prone then Testosterone may not be your best choice. I personally prefer Superdrol as it produces a very dry and full look, however Androl does give me more volume as I can dose it well comfortably volume but the water needs more controls. There is more than one way to do this, I have seen people and done it myself by using more oestrogen blockers/inhibitors with more "wet" drugs, however my personal advice and preference to to use drugs that promote a dry look and use less blockers or inhibitors. In my experience most people are at least moderately sensitive to oestrogen.

Below are some examples of stacks that I take preference to for promoting improvements in body composition:

Tren, Masteron/Proviron, EQ, Androl, Aromasin
Tren, Masteron/Proviron, Testosterone, EQ, Aromasin
Tren, Masteron/Proviron, EQ, Superdrol, Aromasin
Tren, Masteron/Proviron, Superdrol, Testosterone, Aromasin
Tren Masteron/Proviron, Primobolan, Testosterone, Aromasin
Tren Masteron/Proviron, Primobolan, Androl, Aromasin

Please note with each of these testosterone doses would be minimal in most instances, in some instances I have even removed it completely.

I would advise that it is best to focus on becoming lean before you start to focus on growing as it is easier to see excessive accumulation from over eating from an already lean state through monitoring lines in the body. Please take not that I said lean, not pealed, if you are pealed already that is great, but so long as you are in a good condition prior I would say this is fine. You could by all means start a little chunky (not obese) and still make progress why reducing fat levels, although this is harder to do and often people will get it wrong without enough experience, hence why I would advise it is better to be slimmer side first.

I generally tend to back off with Trenbolone after pushing for the best condition and use this period to relax doses a little. Composition suffers as a result but I am still happy with the look, which I will maintain for a period of time. Eventually when I am ready, I will remove the Trenbolone and change my stack so it gives a break from orals as well and reduce my doses overall. This will be for several weeks to a couple months usually, it simply depends on my feel at the time.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

alien8ed, have you ever competed in a bodybuilding competition?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> it was a borreson thing along with other methods....made a lot of sense.


I am not too sure who that is to be honest.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I am not too sure who that is to be honest.


https://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/_paul_borresen_dead_at_38

He died at the beginning of your quest to be superior.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

s**t age to die.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> s**t age to die.


his cycles were similar to yours.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Maybe, but I doubt that was what killed him. My cycles are hardly out there, there are many more who use just as much and plenty more than me and for much longer. Bodybuilding full of narc addicts, alcoholics, people who abuse pain killers etc, then you got people with diseases and everything else. People always quick to blame the roids because it is the obvious thing being used with bigger guys, pain killer abuse on the other hand is undetectable by someones look. Really only he knows the truth what he was taking, if it was what he was taking that even killed him.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Maybe, but I doubt that was what killed him. My cycles are hardly out there, there are many more who use just as much and plenty more than me and for much longer. Bodybuilding full of narc addicts, alcoholics, people who abuse pain killers etc, then you got people with diseases and everything else. People always quick to blame the roids because it is the obvious thing being used with bigger guys, pain killer abuse on the other hand is undetectable by someones look. Really only he knows the truth what he was taking, if it was what he was taking that even killed him.


oops, now you seem to be an expert on him.

oh and dont forget my "have you competed" question.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

I am not an expert on him, but I doubt the death certificate said steroids as I have yet to hear that.

Again, I wish to remain anonymous, talking about what I have done, do or anything that could also identify who I am will not be discussed, hence why I did not answer it and I will not answer such questions in the future.

If you wish to discuss bodybuilding, steroids, or other aspects in general this fine, I will talk about it, however I am not going to get involved in topics I have been clear I am not willing to talk about about already or into any discussion with people which are are individually or collectively trying to provoke a response from me, attempting to set up constant criticism on what I have said or just generally that are not worthy of a decent debate.


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## cris (Apr 11, 2012)

> it was a borreson thing along with other methods....made a lot of sense.


i miss his sopplements and his magazine


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Alien8ed said:


> I am not an expert on him, but I doubt the death certificate said steroids as I have yet to hear that.
> 
> Again, I wish to remain anonymous, talking about what I have done, do or anything that could also identify who I am will not be discussed, hence why I did not answer it and I will not answer such questions in the future.
> 
> If you wish to discuss bodybuilding, steroids, or other aspects in general this fine, I will talk about it, however I am not going to get involved in topics I have been clear I am not willing to talk about about already or into any discussion with people which are are individually or collectively trying to provoke a response from me, attempting to set up constant criticism on what I have said or just generally that are not worthy of a decent debate.


How would that make you identifiable


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

cris said:


> i miss his sopplements and his magazine


the mag was great,specially the diet stuff/pre contest.....assuming it was the governor lol...


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## cris (Apr 11, 2012)

> the mag was great,specially the diet stuff/pre contest.....assuming it was the governor lol...


thats the one,was honest and straight up about gear use and everything,and his supps were decent too


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> How would that make you identifiable


Personal identifiers/ identifiable information


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Alien8ed said:


> Personal identifiers/ identifiable information


It is a yes or no question. Impossible to identify you from it.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Not when you piece it together with other personal information, it narrows it down until eventually you get it down to just a small few. End of the day what you choose to disclose is up to you and what I disclose is up to me.


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## Plate (May 14, 2015)

So wait do I brush my teeth tomorrow or what?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> thats the one,was honest and straight up about gear use and everything,and his supps were decent too


I will have a read through his stuff.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I am not an expert on him, but I doubt the death certificate said steroids as I have yet to hear that.
> 
> Again, I wish to remain anonymous, talking about what I have done, do or anything that could also identify who I am will not be discussed, hence why I did not answer it and I will not answer such questions in the future.
> 
> If you wish to discuss bodybuilding, steroids, or other aspects in general this fine, I will talk about it, however I am not going to get involved in topics I have been clear I am not willing to talk about about already or into any discussion with people which are are individually or collectively trying to provoke a response from me, attempting to set up constant criticism on what I have said or just generally that are not worthy of a decent debate.


until you back up your waffle, because at the moment thats all it is, its just random information that anyone with access to Google could throw together you are just some 15 year old fruitloop in his bedroom churning out posts.

You have painted this picture of this shredded 240lb greek god in your time here and people will expect to see what you have done.

Now, have you ever competed or not, its not going to identify you at all.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I will have a read through his stuff.


amazed you didnt already know about Paul bearing in mind your 15 years in this game.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> Granted we all going to die, but the quality of your life and those close to you whilst you are around is another aspect to consider. Each to their own.


Full English Breakfast?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34615621


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> thats the one,was honest and straight up about gear use and everything,and his supps were decent too


Some rather heavy dosing at times lol. Like you said, at least he seems like he was honest. I will look into what he has written/said more soon.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Full English Breakfast?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34615621


Really? Of course the preservatives in meats like bacon and sausage (and all other prepared meats) are no good for you, that evidence has been around for years, but it is only now because it has been on the news that it is bad for you that people are critising it? There is hardly anything you can eat now that isn't bad for you in some way or another.

Well lets look at margarine, they have been saying that is good for you for over 20 years and butter is bad and then changed their minds a couple months back and apologised, all over the news. Margarine is one of the worst things you can consume.

And you think all other foods are better for you? Vegetables & Fruits have up to 36 chemicals sprayed on them, most of which are known carcinogens, toxins etc. Go have a read here: http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/

All the grain you eat (wheat, oats, barley, rice etc) is mostly GMO, go have a look into that, here is a place to get you started http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/11/13/10-studies-proving-gmos-are-harmful-not-if-science-matters/

Nearly all commercial cows and even pigs are pumped with anti-biotics and other drugs. http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/exclusive-survey-results-use-of-antibiotics-on-UK-dairy-farms.htm

Cooking with vegetable oils: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11981884/Cooking-with-vegetable-oils-releases-toxic-cancer-causing-chemicals-say-experts.html & http://authoritynutrition.com/6-reasons-why-vegetable-oils-are-toxic/

Mercury in a lot of commonly ate fish: http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/walletcard.pdf

And we all know about processed foods, then you have the huge number of toxins that you breath in every day and all the ones you use on yourself (beauty products) and in your home to clean and make it smell better etc.

The list goes on, when it comes to food, very little comes without negatives, just some are worse than others. Personally I eat a varied diet and that includes a couple of full English breakfasts in a month. I am not going to stop eating them because the flavor of the month for the media is the dangers of bacon and sausage, because quite frankly, if they was truthful they would speak about everything else your exposed to. There is little in the super market that doesn't cause you harm in some form and if the media wasn't doing this for the purpose of an agenda, then they would be bringing up every day all the s**t you are exposed to that comes from industry etc. Look at how your body is known to remove toxins, carcinogens as you sure as hell can't stop them getting in, but you can give your body the tools it needs to get rid of them.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> amazed you didnt already know about Paul bearing in mind your 15 years in this game.


Nope, I will have a look more into him and see what he has ment to of said etc.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> Really? Of course the preservatives in meats like bacon and sausage (and all other prepared meats) are no good for you, that evidence has been around for years, but it is only now because it has been on the news that it is bad for you that people are critising it? There is hardly anything you can eat now that isn't bad for you in some way or another.
> 
> Well lets look at margarine, they have been saying that is good for you for over 20 years and butter is bad and then changed their minds a couple months back and apologised, all over the news. Margarine is one of the worst things you can consume.
> 
> ...


Pot Kettle Black comes to mind with half of your other posts, I think its a massive contradiction and you are struggling to remember what you have previously said.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

How is it a contradiction, have you read what I have posted at all?


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> How is it a contradiction, have you read what I have posted at all?


Every single word. Everything you talk around diet is utter rubbish to be honest and isn't back up at all.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Every single word. Everything you talk around diet is utter rubbish to be honest and isn't back up at all.


Hard fact, no it is not, but neither are many things that are believed to be "proven". It is however certainly backed up as it is all over the internet with varying studies and related professionals and industry related people talking about it. If you pay attention, I choose my wording carefully.

This is not my science/study, this is the work of others that I believe to be true. I am simply sharing my findings with other people, many who are highly renowned. If you truly think that what I say about diet is s**t then don't read it. If you don't believe in it, that is fine with me. You have certainly spent enough time to read it if you know everything I have said about diet is s**t. You have your views, so if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you start your own thread and talk about your methods and share you experiences? Some people may find wisdom/truth in them.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Hard fact, no it is not, but neither are many things that are believed to be "proven". It is however certainly backed up as it is all over the internet with varying studies and related professionals and industry related people talking about it.* If you pay attention, I choose my wording carefully.*
> 
> This is not my science/study, this is the work of others that I believe to be true. I am simply sharing my findings with other people, many who are highly renowned. If you truly think that what I say about diet is s**t then don't read it. If you don't believe in it, that is fine with me. You have certainly spent enough time to read it if you know everything I have said about diet is s**t. You have your views, so if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you start your own thread and talk about your methods and share you experiences? Some people may find wisdom/truth in them.


way too carefully for it to be real TBH.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> Hard fact, no it is not, but neither are many things that are believed to be "proven". It is however certainly backed up as it is all over the internet with varying studies and related professionals and industry related people talking about it. If you pay attention, I choose my wording carefully.
> 
> This is not my science/study, this is the work of others that I believe to be true. I am simply sharing my findings with other people, many who are highly renowned. If you truly think that what I say about diet is s**t then don't read it. If you don't believe in it, that is fine with me. You have certainly spent enough time to read it if you know everything I have said about diet is s**t. You have your views, so if you feel so strongly about this, why don't you start your own thread and talk about your methods and share you experiences? Some people may find wisdom/truth in them.


Just like the rubbish you were talking about waiting 4 hours after your breakfast.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> How is it a contradiction, have you read what I have posted at all?


Going into detail about Iodine, Pesticides and phytic acid in foods and then making excuses for eating sausages and bacon. Complete contradiction looking into so much detail about things you know nothing about and then ignoring cold hard fact because it suits you.


----------



## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

> Going into detail about Iodine, Pesticides and phytic acid in foods and then making excuses for eating sausages and bacon. Complete contradiction looking into so much detail about things you know nothing


Banzi in disguise are we? "Cold hard facts", hmm yes, ok, your right, I am terrible I eat bacon and sausage a couple times a month, such the hypocrite :whistling: .


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Banzi in disguise are we? "Cold hard facts", hmm yes, ok, your right, I am terrible I eat bacon and sausage a couple times a month, such the hypocrite :whistling: .


but you dont use toothpaste because of the fluoride 

And now you throw out daft accusations because its dawned on you that Im not the only one that thinks you are full of s**t.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

I don't for one minute believe that you don't use toothpaste, how the hell would you keep your teeth clean.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MissMartinez said:


> they actually sell fluoride free toothpaste in America. I bought some by accident in whole foods called Toms. Was raging lol


I suspect he will say he uses that.

I am at a loss as to why he is so scared of answering questions though.

I sense he has pulled s**t like this before.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> Banzi in disguise are we? "Cold hard facts", hmm yes, ok, your right, I am terrible I eat bacon and sausage a couple times a month, such the hypocrite :whistling: .


You are a massive hypocrite.

Going on about all the stuff I posted above. Going on about flouride in water, encouraging people to increase their cholesterol.

Not disputing any of the other stuff you have posted, but your diet knowledge is way off.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> I don't for one minute believe that you don't use toothpaste, how the hell would you keep your teeth clean.


No phytic acid or pesticides in his food. When you eat sausages. bacon and ice cream you dont need to brush your teeth.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Gmags said:


> No phytic acid or pesticides in his food. When you eat sausages. bacon and ice cream you dont need to brush your teeth.


it seems a bit too far fetched really, I've never actually heard of anyone who doesn't use toothpaste, why would you spend all your time, effort and money trying to look good then go and spoil it by not using toothpaste and ending up with no teeth.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> it seems a bit too far fetched really, I've never actually heard of anyone who doesn't use toothpaste, why would you spend all your time, effort and money trying to look good then go and spoil it by not using toothpaste and ending up with no teeth.


He's just writing stuff to appear like he knows what he's talking about yet contradicts himself in the process.

Guy talks about additives and pesticides then claims he is throwing in grams of gear. 

I imagine he's a bit like this guy in real life


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> I imagine he's a bit like this guy in real life


wtf is that!


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

nitrogen said:


> wtf is that!


apparently it was a guy on MD forums who was calling everyone out and bragging, that's what he eventually posted.


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

MissMartinez said:


> well it's not like you swallow toothpaste so dunno what the problem is. Toms was crap, Oral B 3D white for the win  Colgate total after that!


I have been using totoothpaste with extra fluoride for months and it made a massive difference.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

nitrogen said:


> I have been using totoothpaste with extra fluoride for months and it made a massive difference.


it shows in the lack of quality in your posts.


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> it shows in the lack of quality in your posts.


?


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

MissMartinez said:


> well all this talk has inspired me to get my teeth cleaned at the dentist and use the crest white strips I brought back from Cali for Xmas! I have decent teeth but wouldn't mind a Hollywood smile
> 
> don't like those gels in gum shields for whitening. I get shooting pains in my teeth while they're in that can't be a good sign.


I agree. The Hollywood smile is ott. I see a dental hygienest once a year and brush my teeth thoroughly.Does the job.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

nitrogen said:


> ?


that makes it funnier...

Fluoride is alleged to dumb you down.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> it seems a bit too far fetched really, I've never actually heard of anyone who doesn't use toothpaste, why would you spend all your time, effort and money trying to look good then go and spoil it by not using toothpaste and ending up with no teeth.


One of his posts cites how his teeth improved under some diet fad or special combination of vitamins that was a load of rubbish.


----------



## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

Been using fluoride free toothpaste and mouth wash for almost my entire life. Teeth are still going strong and healthy.

Oh, and I'm smart as fook too :tongue:


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> that makes it funnier...
> 
> Fluoride is alleged to dumb you down.


So you've been drinking fluoride enhanced water all your life? 

Or is there enough in tap water? :confused1:


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mildo said:


> Been using fluoride free toothpaste and mouth wash for almost my entire life. Teeth are still going strong and healthy.
> 
> Oh, and I'm smart as fook too :tongue:


new age hippy parents?


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

nitrogen said:


> So you've been drinking fluoride enhanced water all your life?
> 
> Or is there enough in tap water? :confused1:


I eat a tube a day to bring my intelligence levels down to the members of bodybuilding forums.


----------



## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> I eat a tube a day to bring my intelligence levels down to the members of bodybuilding forums.


IIFYM


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> IIFYM


I have eaten that much I cant count anymore.


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> I eat a tube a day to bring my intelligence levels down to the members of bodybuilding forums.


a 50,75 or 100ml size? Do you fluoride cycle and cruise on travel size toothpaste?


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> So you've been drinking fluoride enhanced water all your life?
> 
> Or is there enough in tap water? :confused1:


Local Government and councils contact water companies and inform them which areas need more flouride/flouride in their water to improve the teeth of children in the area.

It is specifically done like this to reduce tooth decay.

Fact.


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Gmags said:


> Local Government and councils contact water companies and inform them which areas need more flouride/flouride in their water to improve the teeth of children in the area.
> 
> It is specifically done like this to reduce tooth decay.
> 
> Fact.


After your WC and utility used water has been "recycled"


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

nitrogen said:


> After your WC and utility used water has been "recycled"


there is no such thing as fresh water, the water that is on this planet is the same that's always been here, its been through the digestive system of many creatures multiple times.


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

banzi said:


> there is no such thing as fresh water, the water that is on this planet is the same that's always been here, its been through the digestive system of many creatures multiple times.


If only many creatures.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> If only many creatures.


Absolutely clueless on the water cycle.


----------



## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> there is no such thing as fresh water, the water that is on this planet is the same that's always been here, its been through the digestive system of many creatures multiple times.


what happens when hydrogen is burnt in oxygen?


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

So, what I'm getting from this thread by page 6 is we are giving a guy s**t for being nice and starting a thread on a forum?

This place has changed...


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

superpube said:


> what happens when hydrogen is burnt in oxygen?


molecules atoms blah blah blah

Its the same water just reformed



simonboyle said:


> So, what I'm getting from this thread by page 6 is we are giving a guy s**t for being nice and starting a thread on a forum?
> 
> This place isn't as gullible as it used to be.


fixed


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> So, what I'm getting from this thread by page 6 is we are giving a guy s**t for being nice and starting a thread on a forum?
> 
> This place has changed...


No, people are questioning some of the information and the OP is refusing to answer questions.

Its the OP's reluctance to answer questions properly that's creating the problems.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

not in the first 6 pages at least.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Gmags said:


> No, people are questioning some of the information and the OP is refusing to answer questions.
> 
> *Its the OP's reluctance to answer questions properly that's creating the problems.*


its hard when you are following a script.


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

fyi fluoride was administrated to concentration camp prisoners in ww2 by the nazi's. its an effect on the brain which makes the individual more likely to become submissive and more likely to do as they are told

or has that been mentioned already?


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> not in the first 6 pages at least.


No flouride but fine with Sausages, Bacon and year long steroid binges...


----------



## nitrogen (Oct 25, 2007)

Gmags said:


> Absolutely clueless on the water cycle.


You don't believe that water bottles are harvested from the peak of the French Alps or Highlands?

Why don't you educate us Mr Albert Nobel!


----------



## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

banzi said:


> new age hippy parents?


Nope


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> You don't believe that water bottles are harvested from the peak of the French Alps or Highlands?
> 
> Why don't you educate us Mr Albert Nobel!


We were talking about tap water...


----------



## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

dannythinx said:


> fyi fluoride was administrated to concentration camp prisoners in ww2 by the nazi's. its an effect on the brain which makes the individual more likely to become submissive and more likely to do as they are told
> 
> or has that been mentioned already?


That's very true. It dumbs down the pineal gland which is the gate way to consciousness/intelligence.

The fact that it's also in certain water supplies and food stuffs is quite frightening.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mildo said:


> *That's very true*. It dumbs down the pineal gland which is the gate way to consciousness/intelligence.
> 
> The fact that it's also in certain water supplies and food stuffs is quite frightening.


Are you aware that a couple of grams of lead can kill you instantly?


----------



## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

banzi said:


> Are you aware that a couple of grams of lead can kill you instantly?


Yes. Are you aware there is Mercury in dangerous amounts in a flu jab? Which also effects the pineal and has been shown to cause mental health problems in teenagers.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mildo said:


> Yes. Are you aware there is Mercury in dangerous amounts in a flu jab? Which also effects the pineal and has been shown to cause mental health problems in teenagers.


are you aware a tinfoil hat doesn't stop harmful rays passing into your brain from mind control satellites?


----------



## Mildo (Feb 11, 2015)

banzi said:


> are you aware a tinfoil hat doesn't stop harmful rays passing into your brain from mind control satellites?


Oh, I thought it did. Meh silly me


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Mildo said:


> Oh, I thought it did. Meh silly me


Just jump the shark now with "Chemtrails"


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> fyi fluoride was administrated to concentration camp prisoners in ww2 by the nazi's. its an effect on the brain which makes the individual more likely to become submissive and more likely to do as they are told
> 
> or has that been mentioned already?


At what levels was this administered? What studies back this up?

Do you realise fluoride is put into the tap water in certain areas of the UK...


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> That's very true. It dumbs down the pineal gland which is the gate way to consciousness/intelligence.
> 
> The fact that it's also in certain water supplies and food stuffs is quite frightening.


Why is it frightening?

What levels have been proven to dumb down the pineal gland?

What levels are included in uk water supplies?

Jesus, another anxious UK Member.


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Gmags said:


> At what levels was this administered? What studies back this up?
> 
> Do you realise fluoride is put into the tap water in certain areas of the UK...


google it dude,

and that was kinda my point


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

fluoride builds in the system so even if administered through small doses after a while it will build to a point where it has the dumbing down effect..

why do you think we put up with

outrageous wars and tax's and all the over shitt that causes mild anger but never goes beyond that?


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> google it dude,
> 
> and that was kinda my point


My point being that at the levels in uk water are not anywhere close to levels that can dumb you down.


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Gmags said:


> My point being that at the levels in uk water are not anywhere close to levels that can dumb you down.


see my above post


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> fluoride builds in the system so even if administered through small doses after a while it will build to a point where it has the dumbing down effect..
> 
> why do you think we put up with
> 
> outrageous wars and tax's and all the over shitt that causes mild anger but never goes beyond that?


You aren't starting a conspiracy here about why the UK use fluoride in water are you? I cannot be bothered with a bunch of uneducated morons come up with loads of crackpot theories because their minds are so easily led by crap on the internet and forums.


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> see my above post


So when is this dumbing down going to occur? How long does this build up take?

Has the dumbing down already happened? Does it cycle every couple of years?

Come on, so you honestly think you, a few wiki pages and a few forum posts know more than councils, health advisors, water companies and enginerers?


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Gmags said:


> You aren't starting a conspiracy here about why the UK use fluoride in water are you? I cannot be bothered with a bunch of uneducated morons come up with loads of crackpot theories because their minds are so easily led by crap on the internet and forums.


ease up you chump, i was messing around to see who would bite..


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Gmags Caused by Fluoride mate.


----------



## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

@Dark sim

My above post was quoting Gmags & not Alien8ed, & also did it twice.

Dunno why - prolly too much Sugar?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

latblaster said:


> @Dark sim
> 
> My above post was quoting Gmags & not Alien8ed, & also did it twice.
> 
> Dunno why - prolly too much Sugar?


the brain likes sugar


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

dannythinx said:


> ease up you chump, i was messing around to see who would bite..


What's your problem, you got someone to bite?


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Dark sim said:


> What's your problem, you got someone to bite?


true


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> ease up you chump, i was messing around to see who would bite..


Easy to say that now you have realised you were becoming a Belieber.


----------



## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

Dark sim said:


> the brain likes sugar


Well it is as addicting as heroin, apparently...


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Gmags said:


> Easy to say that now you have realised you were becoming a Belieber.


brb just going sainsburys to pick up a f load of tin foil


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

banzi said:


> http://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/what-i-have-learned-over-15-years-use-amp-lifting-alien8ed-38806.html
> 
> Dont forget to keep those guys in the loop.


how come you dropped these guys?


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

banzi said:


> Are you aware that a couple of grams of lead can kill you instantly?


Called a bullet mate.


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Gmags said:


> You are a massive hypocrite.
> 
> Going on about all the stuff I posted above. Going on about flouride in water, encouraging people to* increase their cholesterol.*
> 
> Not disputing any of the other stuff you have posted, but your diet knowledge is way off.


Inflammation increases Cholesterol.Saturated fat, and Cholesterols incidence in disease is a mistruth.


----------



## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Gmags said:


> So when is this dumbing down going to occur? How long does this build up take?
> 
> Has the dumbing down already happened? Does it cycle every couple of years?
> 
> Come on, so you honestly think you, a few wiki pages and a few forum posts *know more than councils, health advisors, water companies and enginerers?*


They are driven by commercial considerations.If they could find another additive to include in the water ways, that saved them money and had possible questionable health issues,they would soon find a way to introduce it.Everyone in Government and industry has an agenda.Usually financial.Id take heed in entrusting your health to Governments.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

essexboy said:


> They are driven by commercial considerations.If they could find another additive to include in the water ways, that saved them money and had possible questionable health issues,they would soon find a way to introduce it.Everyone in Government and industry has an agenda.Usually financial.Id take heed in entrusting your health to Governments.


You are aware they have to drink the water as well?


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> You are aware they have to drink the water as well?


You honestly couldn't make it up.

The amount of people on here who are anxious and worried about things and thing they have figured things out is beyond belief.


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Gmags said:


> You honestly couldn't make it up.
> 
> The amount of people on here who are anxious and worried about things and thing they have figured things out is beyond belief.


its like the chemtrails nonsense, they claim pilots are dropping chemicals on us yet they never seem to think that the pilot has to land the plane and then go and live with his family in the chemically poisoned environment.

I did have one crackpot tell me that the pilot and all his family got inoculations against the poison. :confused1:


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> its like the chemtrails nonsense, they claim pilots are dropping chemicals on us yet they never seem to think that the pilot has to land the plane and then go and live with his family in the chemically poisoned environment.
> 
> I did have one crackpot tell me that the pilot and all his family got inoculations against the poison. :confused1:


this is true. My uncle told me and he worked for MFI


----------



## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

dannythinx said:


> this is true. My uncle told me and he worked for MFI


don't you mean MI5?


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

banzi said:


> don't you mean MI5?


yes of course, I was trying to be funny


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> yes of course, I was trying to be funny


It really isn't working for you. You keep trying to be funny, you aren't funny, then have to explain yourself.


----------



## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Gmags said:


> It really isn't working for you. You keep trying to be funny, you aren't funny, then have to explain yourself.


thanks for your input buddy


----------



## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> thanks for your input buddy


I was trying to be funny.


----------



## Fluke82 (Sep 10, 2015)

Gmags said:


> I was trying to be funny.


It really isn't working for you. You keep trying to be funny, you aren't funny, then have to explain yourself.


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## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> It really isn't working for you. You keep trying to be funny, you aren't funny, then have to explain yourself.


Where?

Please link me...


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Gmags said:


> Where?
> 
> Please link me...


another attempt?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

banzi said:


> You are aware they have to drink the water as well?


True.However, financial incentives, have a wonderful habit, of blurring the truth.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

essexboy said:


> True.However, financial incentives, have a wonderful habit, of blurring the truth.


that doesn't make sense to me.

Are you saying that people would poison their family and friends if the money was right?


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

banzi said:


> that doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> Are you saying that people would poison their family and friends if the money was right?


I certainly would.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

The "Fluoride is bad for you" message only came along when they started selling bottled water.

I think they only said that to make you buy bottled water which has double the levels of fluoride added, that's why tinfoil hatters keep spreading the rumour, its because they don't drink tap water and as such their brains are addled.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MissMartinez said:


> you need reverse osmosis water not the regular bottled stuff


humph....that contains three times the amount and it also leeches all the minerals out of your body.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

MissMartinez said:


> never really looked into it, I'm not that precious and stick with tap water or sparkling water here. If I'm stateside I'm partial to Orange Vitamin water zero though!


I have no idea what Im writing.

Tap water never killed anyone.


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## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> I have no idea what Im writing.
> 
> Tap water never killed anyone.


http://www.bfsweb.org/onemillion/09 One in a Million - The Extent of Fluoridation.pdf


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Gmags said:


> http://www.bfsweb.org/onemillion/09 One in a Million - The Extent of Fluoridation.pdf


NASFWG


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## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> NASFWG


Wasn't aimed at you.


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## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> NASFWG


Wasn't aimed at you.


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

banzi said:


> that doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> Are you saying that people would poison their family and friends if the money was right?


Actually reading it back, it makes f.uck all sense to me as well.My point was/is, that Goverment recommendations, can be influenced.A bit like the "food pyramid" Those recommendations were influenced by not suprisingly the grain industry.

Any research into the negative aspects, of Government recommendations tend to have funding pulled or stopped, if it appears that those with interests may suffer.

It even happened when Blair was PM.He pulled funding as a team of Government funded scientists were on the verge of going public, against Government eating advice.IE that saturated fat, was not causing CVD.


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## Gmags (Nov 16, 2015)

> Actually reading it back, it makes f.uck all sense to me as well.My point was/is, that Goverment recommendations, can be influenced.A bit like the "food pyramid" Those recommendations were influenced by not suprisingly the grain industry.
> 
> Any research into the negative aspects, of Government recommendations tend to have funding pulled or stopped, if it appears that those with interests may suffer.
> 
> It even happened when Blair was PM.He pulled funding as a team of Government funded scientists were on the verge of going public, against Government eating advice.IE that saturated fat, was not causing CVD.


But tap water....


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

https://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_beginner/could_use_some_help_

OK guys, my name is Justin and I'm new to T-Nation. Gotta quick question. This first post may be a little long, and I apologize for that, but there's background I need to explain.

I'm 27 years old, used to train as a powerlifter. Got up to 185 lbs (from about 155 lbs) and added 100 lbs to my bench and 120 lbs or so to my squat in about 6 months. I was pretty happy with my size and my strength gains, but I was also pretty fat and got winded really easy.

Cut to today. I got back from basic training about 6 months ago. Did good things for my muscle endurance but shredded me back down to 155 lbs. When I got home, had some difficulties with the wife...moved out, lived in car for a little while...was only eating every other day or so...long story short, now I'm a really thin 150 or so.

Now to the question. Since I've gotten back I've gotten really into the local indy film / modeling scene and I'm looking to adapt more of a bodybuilder approach for aesthetic purposes. Shooting for a "Chipendale" style body. At this time I'm more concerned with body aesthetics than I am athletic prowess.

Here's where it gets complicated. I'm not a natural runner by any stretch of the imagation, and I have to maintain a good 2 mile time and enough muscle endurance to rock out 70 - 80 push ups/sit ups in 2 minutes for the Army. The push ups / sit ups have never been a problem, but if I want to stay on the Army's good side I'm going to have to maintain a 15 minute two mile which is going to require me to run daily.

In short, how do I work on bulking and adding muscle while still running 3 miles a day to keep my two mile time down? Things are better for me now so eatting isn't a problem, and I've been pretty devoted in the past so maintaining a stringent gym schedule shouldn't be a problem either. I'm just not sure how to bulk but maintain good cardio fitness at the same time.

Thank you so much for your help!

=Justin=


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

banzi said:


> https://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_beginner/could_use_some_help_
> 
> OK guys, my name is Justin and I'm new to T-Nation. Gotta quick question. This first post may be a little long, and I apologize for that, but there's background I need to explain.
> 
> ...


 nice find


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

more from him http://board.accordtuner.com/showthread.php?21575-Body-Kit-Recommendation&s=01b6fa0842c5fc8dfe0d836cfc1a6fa0


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

his blog http://alien8ed2k3.blogspot.co.uk/2003_10_01_archive.html


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Good find, shame that is not me, but 10 of 10 for finding someone out of 7.3 billion people who has used the same handle as me.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

*Why I Personally Avoid Fluoride Where Possible*

Firstly, synthetic fluoride is alleged to be added to only around 10% of the UK water supply, this information can be found online easily. For most people, their exposure comes from tooth pastes and mouth wash as most contain these. There are other reasons why I prefer bottle water to tap water.

Should you choose to believe it, there is substantial evidence that suggests that fluoride develops neurotoxicity and is known toxin. What levels at prolonged exposure will do to people is not known, however issues with bones, teeth and the nervous system are linked with enough exposure. Regardless of this, natural forms of fluoride possibly may be used by the body in some way or other as it is present in plants that we may consume. Although it is not considered to needed by the body (it is classed as non essential), just like mercury, arsenic and other chemicals out there the body may use it in some form as it is part of our natural environment. Generally what the earth is made of is part of us, although we do not yet fully understand what many things are used for (if at all) in the human body, research is regularly adding more insight to our nutritional requirements.

I personally do not dispute what are harmful levels of Fluoride or not as I do not know as I can't see what is going on inside my body. However, I use reason in my approach like with anything I do and I generally apply the logic that anything toxic is best not taken in excess. Plus, I generally find in this world that most things added to products/thing that you consume are not for your best interests, but to make more profit/save money. As Fluoride is a toxic by-product of industry, finding a use for it makes for better profit as it saves disposing of it. Call me skeptical, but that is probably the real reason it is being dumped into such products.

There are three reasons why I avoid products which have added Fluoride these are:

Personally I do not believe Fluoride to beneficial for your teeth so I do not take products that contain it. There is data that supports it is and there is data that supports it is not. The ones that supports it shows a minor additional resistance to acids at best, the negatives indicate issues with bone structure and teeth in general of which a favor the latter to be of truth. I have had several issues over my life with my teeth and one of the changes I made which since then has prevented me having any problems with my teeth was avoiding Fluoride. How much it contributed, I do not know, but my teeth are the best they have ever been in my adult life since I made these changes so I am sticking to what has worked for me.

I generally take a negative approach to the use of additives in foods and products which has little information on it or has been shown to be. You can not avoid this all together as additives are everywhere, but you can reduce this exposure. My approach is to vary things that contain these (such as food) to avoid potential for toxic levels occurring and avoid certain products I feel negatively about in general. The world is full of chemicals, the body deals with most of them well, but you have to go with your gut feeling and mine is bad about Fluoride.

My final reason, which is the most important reason, is that Fluorine, Bromine and Chlorine which we are well exposed to due to industry and farming methods have be shown to have a significant negative impact on Iodine levels in the body. Iodine is very important for many functions, especially the thyroids functionality. The thyroid is very important for overall health (immune system, weight loss amongst other things) and its dysfunction can cause very unpleasant conditions. Iodine is in short supply in the food chain, especially in western diets. As I know several people personally who have had issues with their thyroids and several of my partners side of the family have medical issues with their thyroids, I do take a proactive approach with my children with this concern. Now there are whole hordes of people and medical professionals who have corrected issues, or drastically improved issues with their or their patients health, especially their thyroids, through supplementing Iodine and reducing such things as Flouride containing products. As I have first hand experience in this with people I am close to, plus the significant improvements I have made in my own health by doing this amongst other things I have experience leads me to stand by this 100%. There is a lot of information out there that supports this and as already mentioned, many accounts of people.

I find it quite it retarded to disregard your health completely just because you partake in something that some believe to have a negative impact on your health. Just because I take steroids, does this mean I should take narcotics, smoke, drink heavily and partake in other activities that are proven to support ill health? Since making changes in my life, this one included, I rarely get sick. I feel much more healthier and am without any aches, pains or other complaints that I used to suffer with and in considerably better shape than 99.9% of most people my age. I take steroids on a continuous basis and feel better for it. I am not going to live for ever, death is inevitable and it is something I accept, however what I am attempting to do is stay strong, able and disease free for the period of which I am alive so I can be self sufficient and happier. The only person who can make these decisions are me and this is what I believe in. Part of me enjoying my life is going to involve eating some food that I like, I am not a health freak, I am health conscious, but like anyone else I like the taste of some "bad" food once in a while, even if I know it is no good for me! So if I go crazy and eat a little bit of bacon and sausage each month to hell with it, it is hardly a staple. I am not going to stop disregarding what I believe is beneficial to my overall health (happiness comes into that as well) in general just because someone is criticising what I say or calling me a hypocrite because I like the taste of a bacon butty every now and again.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Your posts are mostly accurate & quite interesting -if not a little verbose.

Can't work out what you're up to though. What is it?


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

It's long but easy to read

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/08/22/fluoride-affects-consciousness-will-act/


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Read the last sentence:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26606914


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

And here's an interesting fact:

there has never been one single study that has proven that fluoride protects the teeth in anyway


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## dannythinx (Oct 4, 2014)

Now before I pop down to asda and do a grand on tin foil for hat making purposes can someone tell me why a drug has been added to the water supply with no warning of possible side effects like you get in a packet of aspirin?


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> *Why I Personally Avoid Fluoride Where Possible*
> 
> Firstly, synthetic fluoride is alleged to be added to only around 10% of the UK water supply, this information can be found online easily. For most people, their exposure comes from tooth pastes and mouth wash as most contain these. There are other reasons why I prefer bottle water to tap water.
> 
> ...


 so what the fvck do you brush your teeth with ?


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

ILLBehaviour said:


> so what the fvck do you brush your teeth with ?


 Lager of course - what else.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

ILLBehaviour said:


> so what the fvck do you brush your teeth with ?





latblaster said:


> Lager of course - what else.


 Lol, Euthymol toothpaste and I use Listerine Cool mint as this and the Original formula are Fluoride free, however all the others contain Fluoride to the best of my knowledge. There are some good natural Aloe Vera based tooth pastes also, but I have to be honest Euthymol is the best tooth paste I have ever used.

@latblaster Yes I am a little wordy, but you will see in time that I am just sharing what I know and believe in.


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

dannythinx said:


> Now before I pop down to asda and do a grand on tin foil for hat making purposes can someone tell me why a drug has been added to the water supply with no warning of possible side effects like you get in a packet of aspirin?


 They class it as a chemical and in the lovely world that you we live in, any chemical can be added to anything until proven to be dangerous. This is the same principle behind all the E numbers etc, that stuff can go in your food, so long as it is on the label until someone can prove without doubt that the levels being used in that product are dangerous. Many are known to be very dangerous at higher levels but they consider them not dangerous (or not known to be dangerous) at low amounts.

Your water supplier has a duty to tell you (if you ask) what they add to your water, plus you can request a recent sample test which they do to test for harmful levels of varying chemicals/toxins etc.


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## latblaster (Oct 26, 2013)

Tell us your thoughts on Descartes....


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

latblaster said:


> Tell us your thoughts on Descartes....


 I do not know too much about him to be honest, however I do know that he considered anything false unless it was proven without doubt, which I do have to be honest is a good philosophy. I share the same view, I believe until something is proven inconclusively that we should question it and look at all the options. History has shown that man has made many, often large mistakes in the past which have changed with more knowledge as time has gone by. If it was not for people who take this philosophy, then many of these mistakes would of never been found.

I find science very interesting and alongside creativity it is one of Mans greatest abilities (as a whole) is to question the questionable. Although I do believe that science can be very misleading if misused/mis-promoted, any one who uses reason and logic to question things are scientists to some degree.

Good to see there are some people with intelligence here.


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Alien8ed said:


> Good find, shame that is not me, but 10 of 10 for finding someone out of 7.3 billion people who has used the same handle as me.


 alright Justin


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## a.notherguy (Nov 17, 2008)

banzi said:


> I have no idea what Im writing.
> 
> Tap water never killed anyone.


 http://m.seattlepi.com/national/article/Someone-drowns-in-a-tub-nearly-every-day-in-1201018.php


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I do not know too much about him to be honest, however I do know that he considered anything false unless it was proven without doubt, which I do have to be honest is a good philosophy. I share the same view, I believe until something is proven inconclusively that we should question it and look at all the options. History has shown that man has made many, often large mistakes in the past which have changed with more knowledge as time has gone by. If it was not for people who take this philosophy, then many of these mistakes would of never been found.
> 
> I find science very interesting and alongside creativity it is one of Mans greatest abilities (as a whole) is to question the questionable. Although I do believe that science can be very misleading if miss used/miss promoted, any one who uses reason and logic to question things are scientists to some degree.
> 
> *Good to see there are some people taking the piss out of me here*


 fixed


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> Good find, shame that is not me, but 10 of 10 for finding someone out of 7.3 billion people who has used the same handle as me.


 why did you use the handle Alien8ed?


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## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

@Alien8ed i have heard that toilet paper is also toxic , what are your thoughts on this and what alternatives do you suggest?


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## Alien8ed (Nov 14, 2015)

Hand and soap, saves on trees as well :whistling: ..


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## ellisrimmer (Sep 9, 2012)

Alien8ed said:


> I do not know too much about him to be honest, however I do know that he considered anything false unless it was proven without doubt, which I do have to be honest is a good philosophy. I share the same view, I believe until something is proven inconclusively that we should question it and look at all the options. History has shown that man has made many, often large mistakes in the past which have changed with more knowledge as time has gone by. If it was not for people who take this philosophy, then many of these mistakes would of never been found.
> 
> I find science very interesting and alongside creativity it is one of Mans greatest abilities (as a whole) is to question the questionable. Although I do believe that science can be very misleading if miss used/miss promoted, any one who uses reason and logic to question things are scientists to some degree.
> 
> Good to see there are some people with intelligence here.


 can you link to this descarts diet?


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

Alien8ed said:


> I do not know too much about him to be honest, however I do know that he considered anything false unless it was proven without doubt, which I do have to be honest is a good philosophy. I share the same view, I believe until something is proven inconclusively that we should question it and look at all the options. History has shown that man has made many, often large mistakes in the past which have changed with more knowledge as time has gone by. If it was not for people who take this philosophy, then many of these mistakes would of never been found.
> 
> I find science very interesting and alongside creativity it is one of Mans greatest abilities (as a whole) is to question the questionable. Although I do believe that science can be very misleading if* miss used/miss promoted,* any one who uses reason and logic to question things are scientists to some degree.
> 
> Good to see there are some people with intelligence here.


 Are these a couple of fitness girls you know?

Not like you to f**k up your grammar.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

banzi said:


> why did you use the handle Alien8ed?


 My guess is that he's an Altern8 fan. And I love him for it.


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

ILLBehaviour said:


> @Alien8ed i have heard that toilet paper is also toxic , what are your thoughts on this and what alternatives do you suggest?


Like in India

Bottle of water and left hand


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## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

Nice thread derail guys.


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> Nice thread derail guys.


 it would appear that although the information may be of some use OP is full of s**t.


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## 39005 (Nov 25, 2013)

anyone remember the user neuroscience ? 

tbh i dont mind reading the OPs posts , but please post some relevant studys when making claims.

the problem is that you can find a study to back up pretty much anything these days as on places like pubmed they are not scrutinised and anyone can post there , for example someone on here was ranting about tongkat ali as a test booster and he posted a study from pubmed - it was not until i pointed out the study sponsors that you got a true picture (one was a tongat ali supplier and the other a major distributer )


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

superpube said:


> My guess is that he's an Altern8 fan. And I love him for it.


 Evapor8 was awesome!!


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## banzi (Mar 9, 2014)

aqualung said:


> *anyone remember the user neuroscience ? *
> 
> tbh i dont mind reading the OPs posts , but please post some relevant studys when making claims.
> 
> the problem is that you can find a study to back up pretty much anything these days as on places like pubmed they are not scrutinised and anyone can post there , for example someone on here was ranting about tongkat ali as a test booster and he posted a study from pubmed - it was not until i pointed out the study sponsors that you got a true picture (one was a tongat ali supplier and the other a major distributer )


 he would have been telling us how many pain killers he takes in order to wipe his arse by now.


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