# The Most Aesthetically Pleasing Physiques On UKM



## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Personally i'd say Clubber Lang.. he's 17st 11 in this pic and is this lean year round


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## BIG BUCK (Mar 26, 2010)

i'm exactly 17,11 also, but don't look like that! That's my goal, nice one clubber, what's his height?


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

hey what about me.......


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2011)

I remember Clubber from years back when I used to visit MT, **** he has come on alot, great physique!


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

i would put Incredible bulk, XJPX, weeman and tiny tom in this category

after submitting myself of course


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## C.Hill (Nov 21, 2010)

Thats fcuking impressive! Need to get me some gear haha


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

i think youd have to see decent pics of all the people that show (and win) - weeman, rs, tiny tom, pscarb etc before just picking a random pick from raptors [email protected] bank lol


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## roadz (Aug 28, 2008)

Wow, v impressive. Must be modest too as I've never seen him pic whoring lol

I've botta say I like Max's physique (MXD).


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## Nidge (Jan 22, 2007)

Clubber Lang is a big mofo, he's even bigger on the doors in Nottingham.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

BIG BUCK said:


> i'm exactly 17,11 also, but don't look like that! That's my goal, nice one clubber, *what's his height?*


6 foot or 6,1 iirc


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## Barker (Oct 1, 2009)

Shall i not enter this? Would be a bit unfair really if i did considering i have been carved by angels.

On a serious note i remember a bit ago when Con had his old account there was a pic of him giving like a side tricep, had a cap on facing backwards (yank), but it was one of the sharpest looking triceps id ever seen, looked awesome.

P.S sly bit of bodybuilding warehouse advertising there!


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

there lots of people on here with very symmetrical and balanced physiques dont think I could name 1.


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## kgb (Sep 13, 2009)

jstarcarr said:


> there lots of people on here with very symmetrical and balanced physiques dont think I could name 1.


X 2


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Paul George


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## 36-26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Clubber's is a cracking physique, shoulders are class


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## BabyYoYo (Mar 7, 2008)

Con's physique now (well before he did himself in!)... slightly smaller, but still amazingly balanced.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

jstarcarr said:


> there lots of people on here with very symmetrical and balanced physiques dont think I could name 1.


Lol well name more than 1 then


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## danny1871436114701 (May 2, 2010)

Have to agree Clubbers looking immense


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Anyone under 5ft 11 is not Aesthetically pleasing IMO.


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## ah24 (Jun 25, 2006)

aesthetics said:


> Anyone under 5ft 11 is not Aesthetically pleasing IMO.


So Shawn Ray isn't aesthetic?

At work so can't upload pics properly;


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## kernowgee (Jan 30, 2011)

Personally speaking I find almost all females members of this forum more aesthetically pleasing than any dude


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

ah24 said:


> So Shawn Ray isn't aesthetic?
> 
> At work so can't upload pics properly;


LOL at picking a genetic Freak

ok should i say 99% of people under 5ft 11 cant look aesthetically pleasing IMO


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

Mxd looks proper good IMO! Plus he is young, the c0ck, so he will get even better......

Ramsey looks mint out of the competitors, also watch db this year now he works as a PT he's living in the gym he's gonna look good for it!


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Lmao at the dig at the shorties  :lol:

Agreed in general taller guys are far more asthetic and aspirational in day to day life as they don't have a blocky look to them.

Clubber looks immense there, similar to dutch scott tbh


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

And DB how could i forget yours, that FB profile pic is immense... awesome size and condition

What do you weigh in that pic?


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## DB (Oct 31, 2003)

Raptor said:


> And DB how could i forget yours, that FB profile pic is immense... awesome size and condition
> 
> What do you weigh in that pic?


It was show day so 99.1kg in my FB profile pic, will be bigger and leaner in 11 weeks!


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Cool will look forward to seeing the pics


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Incredible bulk's physique is awesome, but I bet he can't stick a fruit pastill in his mouth without chewing it


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## H22civic (Oct 6, 2009)

Theres alot of great physiques on here but the first one that sprung to my mind is RS007. Looks awesome in his show pics from last year. Would love to have a physique like that.

Clubber Lang looks immense in that pic!


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Chuffed that I've even been mentioned! Thanks a lot guys..


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## Uriel (Oct 14, 2008)

Jim78 said:


> Paul George


i dont think he's a member here - or i have never seen him post


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## big silver back (Jan 17, 2009)

Very good physique, fair play. If it was the most UNaesthetically pleasing i would have liked a mention!!!


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

I cant tell when it is people in their avi and not. I mean, the one with a penis poking his ear baffels me?


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

greenspin said:


> I cant tell when it is people in their avi and not. I mean, the one with a penis poking his ear baffels me?


I forgot about greenspins physique, definitely gets my vote !!!!


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

flinty90 said:


> I forgot about greenspins physique, definitely gets my vote !!!!


I was thinking 'I wonder when flinty will rip me a new one!' Even if in jest im happy with that. PMSL.

Edit: Who spiked his protein shake?


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

Mmmm trying to think of some when i think of the biggest guys i think of JW007 and Con.. but then again i dont really browse many albulms other than Raptors ofcourse *whacks off feverishly*  who would you say is the biggest on here? And who would you say is the most ripped?


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## _Jay (Feb 13, 2011)

what is Clubber Lang name on here?


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## The Ultimate Warrior (Dec 20, 2010)

I'de like to enter myself here.


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## Jim78 (Aug 20, 2010)

Uriel said:


> i dont think he's a member here - or i have never seen him post


oops, missed the thread title lika a complete **** :innocent:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

_Jay said:


> what is Clubber Lang name on here?


Well thats not his Christian name is it :lol:


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

Raptor said:


> Well thats not his Christian name is it :lol:


Well my name is really Green Blue Twerling last name Spin. Nahh joking its Crazy Town MCfcukOff Tothe Moon.


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

flinty90 said:


> I forgot about greenspins physique, definitely gets my vote !!!!


I actually just realised how toned Greenspins arms are actually lol they look like Brucle lee arms


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## Greenspin (Dec 27, 2010)

CoffeeFiend said:


> I actually just realised how toned Greenspins arms are actually lol they look like Brucle lee arms


People dont normally get past the strange look of my face in the pic. PMSL


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## CoffeeFiend (Aug 31, 2010)

greenspin said:


> People dont normally get past the strange look of my face in the pic. PMSL


Aye but the perceptive dont just see a constipated fvcker they see a constipated fvcker with awesome arms! :lol:


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Raptor said:


> Well thats not his Christian name is it :lol:


I so wanted to be cruel there, but I knew you would beat me to it you snurger. :blush:


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## The Ultimate Warrior (Dec 20, 2010)

No votes for me then! Knobs!!!


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## _Jay (Feb 13, 2011)

andysutils said:


> I so wanted to be cruel there, but I knew you would beat me to it you snurger. :blush:


Who is he then? Simple question


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

_Jay said:


> *what is Clubber Lang name on here?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> i would imagine it would be clubber lang as it is on mt and ugm.but i aint seen him post on here yet.


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## chris27 (Apr 19, 2009)

he is a member on here , think i seen him post today


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## _Jay (Feb 13, 2011)

vetran said:


> I feel stupid. Cheers mate


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## John Wood (Apr 13, 2008)

Can I throw my hat in the ring Please :cool2:


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## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Raptor said:


> Well thats not his Christian name is it :lol:


Pmsl !!!!


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

You win John.The pic on the far right , is very Viatoresque!


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

Can't believe RS007 hasn't been mentioned.


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## _Jay (Feb 13, 2011)

vetran said:


> Anyone got any links to his posts or pictures?


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## Musashi (Oct 21, 2009)

Louis Lane pre the 'classic' look.

JW007 pre the 'Natty Scum' look.


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

defdaz said:


> Can't believe RS007 hasn't been mentioned.


Think he has ...... once or twice :lol:


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## Nemises (Jun 29, 2008)

Clubber Lang is impressive.

i quite like tiger81


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## SiPhil (Jun 16, 2010)

John Wood said:


> Can I throw my hat in the ring Please :cool2:


Great physique John, but perhaps you should have been wearing that hat at the time to cover the 70's hair which detracts from the overall look.


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

wow sum ppls physiques being mentioned tht defo arent aesthicly pleasing lolol!!!

i like MXD's ...he jus needs to grow a bit more 

john wood tht is an awesome awesome physique

big fan of cons

and whoever sed anyone under 5 11's aint aesthetic is a douche lol


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## Bambi (Jul 1, 2009)

someone define aesthetics. Aesthetics is a subjective term so a general meaning here would be welcome.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

If thats you in youre avi then you have potential for a great body with great aesthetics.

what height are you ?


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

XJPX said:


> wow sum ppls physiques being mentioned tht defo arent aesthicly pleasing lolol!!!
> 
> i like MXD's ...he jus needs to grow a bit more
> 
> ...


 you mad youre a manlet and will never have great aesthetics ?


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

whats height got to do with out


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

CoffeeFiend said:


> Mmmm trying to think of some when i think of the biggest guys i think of JW007 and Con.. but then again i dont really browse many albulms other than Raptors ofcourse *whacks off feverishly*  who would you say is the biggest on here? And who would you say is the most ripped?


youre confusing big with aesthetics.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

jstarcarr said:


> whats height got to do with out


proportions and taper are more likely to be more aesthetically pleasing in the 5ft 11 - 6ft 3 range.


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> you mad youre a manlet and will never have great aesthetics ?


ye thts right douche lol


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

XJPX said:


> ye thts right douche lol


Stand next to anyone Aesthetic and 6ft + and you wouldnt even get a look in.


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> Stand next to anyone Aesthetic and 6ft + and you wouldnt even get a look in.


we will see at this years british champs wont we bud, will u b onstage next to me......


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

aesthetics said:


> Stand next to anyone Aesthetic and 6ft + and you wouldnt even get a look in.


Why dont you put your picture up rather than criticise a competitor (who happens to be a decent competitor as well) yet you are a new member with no photos of yourself? Surely you can see that this does look a bit hypocritical to judge... if not, at least please give some examples before you criticise!

Can you name a current pro bodybuilder at 6ft or more please with great aesthetics?

The guys with best aesthetics i can think of are:

1. Levrone

2. denis newman

3. wheeler

4. early ronnie coleman

5. bob paris

6. centopani

7. heath

8. beyeke

9. ray

10. clairemont

Out of 10, only 2 are over 6ft, bob paris and charles clairemont, they both competed over 10 years ago, not current pro's.

I do agree with jordan though that 99% of people on here dont have a clue what 'aesthetics' actually means, having said that, they arent bodybuilding judges nor are they probably very experienced in bodybuilding (most recreational trainers) so it's understandable. If someone thinks 'woah he looks good' theyll prob say 'good aesthetics' in this thread... but true aesthetics goes way beyond 'he looks good', all to do with insertion points, muscle bellies and shape/structure.

I wont comment on people on this forum, but in terms of real life, when i look at the pro's who have the best aesthetics of all time. Id say that there is a winning formula.

Take:

1. levrone

2. newman

3. wheeler

4. martinez

5. centopani

6. cormier

7. early ronnie

8. phil heath

Etc etc (i could keep adding to the list).

The guys are all around 5ft 10 -5ft 11. Id say 5ft 10/11 combined with a good solid and shredded 235-245 lbs, ie levrone, wheeler, centopani, cormier and newman = best type of package for aesthetics.

But each to their own, everyone has their own idea of what is aesthetically pleasing, im just writing my idea based on what type of aesthetics wins bodybuilding shows (from a bodybuilding perspective)... some people arent writing from a bodybuilding perspective (most people probably) just what type of look they like or aspire to.


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

lol I would say 6ft+ and you got your work cut out to be a good bodybuilder , Ive beat loads of tall huge guys cos they not got good proportions cos its harder to fill out long legs


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## Squirrel (Jun 7, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> proportions and taper are more likely to be more aesthetically pleasing in the 5ft 11 - 6ft 3 range.


What a load of bollox, some of the most aesthetically built guys who have graced the stage over the years have been well under 5'11. Just compare the Olympia with the 202 class, case closed.

P.S. Jordan, lookin fookin huge dude.


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

I'd throw my hat in.

But I'd say John Wood gets my vote. A physique to be proud of. Proper old school classic.


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## XJPX (Jan 10, 2009)

PRL said:


> I'd throw my hat in.
> 
> But I'd say John Wood gets my vote. A physique to be proud of. Proper old school classic.


urs isnt too bad either Pete, hav always been a big fan of ur shape buddy


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## Bambi (Jul 1, 2009)

to the guy who wanted to know my height, 5 foot 10


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Bambi said:


> to the guy who wanted to know my height, 5 foot 10


Sorry mate, you're not aesthetically pleasing according to mr aesthetics... :lol:

Its his name so he should know :whistling:


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## d4ead (Nov 3, 2008)

Damn useless by half a fuking inch... ill go kill myself now


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## laurie g (Nov 28, 2008)

Shaun Mc donald- nice pleasing lines and mass.


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## EssexMalRider (Apr 23, 2010)

Fvcking homos.

Personally, the most aesthetically pleasing physiques on here belong to the women. 

What is wrong with you people?


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Britbb said:


> Why dont you put your picture up rather than criticise a competitor (who happens to be a decent competitor as well) yet you are a new member with no photos of yourself? Surely you can see that this does look a bit hypocritical to judge... if not, at least please give some examples before you criticise!
> 
> Can you name a current pro bodybuilder at 6ft or more please with great aesthetics?
> 
> ...


How are we defining asthetic? to me Gironda and Reeves would be above.In my opinion,the above list just reads like mutated laboratory experiments,Baring Bob Paris.


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## RACK (Aug 20, 2007)

Pscarb, Paul George, Dutch Scott, XJPX, Incredible Bulk, Weeman

The list could go on and on


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## Ts23 (Jan 14, 2011)

Were is McPowerhouseGru and his pics ? ? ?


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

clubber lang for sure, i've tried to get him to compete without success.

thanks for all the votes BTW


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Squirrel said:


> What a load of bollox, some of the most aesthetically built guys who have graced the stage over the years have been well under 5'11. Just compare the Olympia with the 202 class, case closed.
> 
> P.S. Jordan, lookin fookin huge dude.


LMAO most 202 guys look anything but aesthetic.

And to Britbb im not talking about bodybuilding terms i mean in general and lol at picking genetic freaks for youre argument and btw heath and centopani are hardly aesthetically pleasing LMAO.

Let me guess you are around 5ft 10 ???


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Yes i would maybe say Incredible bulk but his big waist is hindering his aesthetic potential IMO


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

somethings you just gotta work with... i'm happy with my short comings and blessings.

just have to get the lats wider, sweep on the quads and delts capped... illusion of a v-taper when there is little to begin with


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

agreed


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

also got to wonder what UKM member is posting under the guise of this new member who is acting as the simon cowell of aesthetics 

IP search time


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

why does it matter ?

you upset ?


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

lol, why would i be upset, its nothing i havent heard for years and i agree with you 

Why does it matter who you are? it just make me curious how someone joins to promote another forum and critique members here.

previously banned member who is now other at another forum coming back for some reason, maybe boredom.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

how the hell have i come here to promote another forum ?!?!?!?!?!

and im not critiquing anyone so sop getting butthurt.


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

aesthetics said:


> how the hell have i come here to promote another forum ?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> and im not critiquing anyone so sop getting butthurt.





> how do my comments not make sense ?
> 
> Stop being a pussy and crying about how many comments or hits youre journal gets ?
> 
> ...


and yes you are critiquing people you dumb ass, to pass comment or judgement is critique and again, i am not butt hurt over what you said, i just want to see the glass house your throwing stones inside lol.


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Bitchayyy..


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## blackbeard (May 3, 2009)

Lee Labrada had a very aesthetically pleasing physique all 5'4" of him


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Btw Clubber lang looks IMMENSE, that's exactly what I'm aiming for.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Incredible Bulk said:


> and yes you are critiquing people you dumb ass, to pass comment or judgement is critique and again, i am not butt hurt over what you said, i just want to see the glass house your throwing stones inside lol.


lmao stop crying you soft cnut.

and lol at saying im promoting a site i have no affiliation to, i just said most are on there so hes best moving his journal if hes after more comments.

who the fcuk are you anyway the Forum Police ?


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## Incredible Bulk (Sep 19, 2007)

no, just bored.....like you


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

Why so much hate?! Chilllllll man


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## daleyy (Nov 24, 2010)

In all honesty this picture of me taken a year ago in turkey was my best condition and form. Held very little water and dieted down for 3 months and during the holiday... and i must say the girls LOVED me


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

pompey phaggot


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Not seen alot of pics on here but MXD looks pretty good imo.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

I vote for Uriel, i've always liked the Ian Beale look.


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## roadz (Aug 28, 2008)

A few people have mentioned dutch scott... WTF happened to that guy, I used to enjoy reading his log. Anyone know how he's getting on and if he is on his way to winning his class at the finals?


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## blackbeard (May 3, 2009)

roadz said:


> A few people have mentioned dutch scott... WTF happened to that guy, I used to enjoy reading his log. Anyone know how he's getting on and if he is on his way to winning his class at the finals?


I think he decided that this site was over run with waankers and stopped posting.Thats the impression i got from the last post from him anyway.


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## BabyYoYo (Mar 7, 2008)

blackbeard said:


> I think he decided that this site was over run with waankers and stopped posting.Thats the impression i got from the last post from him anyway.


Think a few people share that opinion....

MXD also has a good physique. As do Scott and Miles Leeson.


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## henleys (Sep 28, 2010)

MXD, Incredible Bulk and Clubber lang all look fantastic IMO


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## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

blackbeard said:


> I think he decided that this site was over run with waankers and stopped posting.Thats the impression i got from the last post from him anyway.


either that or the site was over run with people who thought he was a **** and didnt sit back whilst he talked ****e for fun....

(thats not my view i dont know him its just an observation)


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> Anyone under 5ft 11 is not Aesthetically pleasing IMO.


what about me and Con?? both short-asses


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Khaos said:


> what about me and Con?? both short-asses


Con isnt aesthetically pleasing IMO but i havent seen a pic of you ???

why do you have to say "me and con " you sound like a phaggot.


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

roadz said:


> A few people have mentioned dutch scott... WTF happened to that guy, I used to enjoy reading his log. Anyone know how he's getting on and if he is on his way to winning his class at the finals?


he is doing well, he is on FB


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> Con isnt aesthetically pleasing IMO but i havent seen a pic of you ???
> 
> why do you have to say "me and con " you sound like a phaggot.


i mention Con only because he is on the forum you suggested i move my journal to, you are welcome to call me a ****** to my face, ps my pics are in my journal and on my page so have a good look so you remember my face, please post a pic so i can memorise yours..............


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

Khaos said:


> i mention Con only because he is on the forum you suggested i move my journal to, you are welcome to call me a ****** to my face, ps my pics are in my journal and on my page so have a good look so you remember my face, please post a pic so i can memorise yours..............


LMAO uuuuuuuhhhhhh ohhhhhhhh


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

just had a look in youre journal and whilst you look quite good.

youre torso is just too short to be aesthetically great.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

and lol at the say it to my face comment.

what are you 5ft 7 ??? haha dont make me laugh little one.


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

I look good in a skirt and heels.

dutch posted a thread on here a couple of days ago,saying he was

back and all good.


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> and lol at the say it to my face comment.
> 
> what are you 5ft 7 ??? haha dont make me laugh little one.


5'9" and yeah say it to my face......you think i have the reaper tattooed on my back cos i'm scared of faceless pussyholes..


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

you being serious ??? you actually think youre tough because you have a reaper tattoo ???

LMAO jog on little man


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

aesthetics said:


> and lol at the say it to my face comment.
> 
> what are you 5ft 7 ??? haha dont make me laugh little one.


do you know who you're fcuking with










look at that fro....LOOK AT IT!!!!!!!!!!


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> you being serious ??? you actually think youre tough because you have a reaper tattoo ???
> 
> LMAO jog on little man


jog on??? unless you are a londoner like me don't try and sound like Danny Dyer


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

Nah my tatt don't make me tough, being bullet proof helps...............


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Khaos said:


> jog on??? unless you are a londoner like me don't try and sound like Danny Dyer


He's been watching to many Nick Love films innit.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Smitch said:


> He's been watching to many Nick Love films innit.


How dare you even enter an aesthetics thread with that Avi of youres.


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

aesthetics said:


> How dare you even enter an aesthetics thread with that Avi of youres.


wheres your avi


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Khaos said:


> jog on??? unless you are a londoner like me don't try and sound like Danny Dyer


you mad im from Croydon ???

yeah u mad liitle un


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

bizzlewood said:


> wheres your avi


I dont have one MR 30 % Body fat


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

aesthetics said:


> How dare you even enter an aesthetics thread with that Avi of youres.


Ha ha, another faceless keyboard warrior.

Gotta love ukm, certainly does attract em.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)




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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Smitch said:


> Ha ha, another faceless keyboard warrior.
> 
> Gotta love ukm, certainly does attract em.


Original comment there my friend.

Do you even lift ???

Srs question


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

aesthetics said:


> Original comment there my friend.
> 
> Do you even lift ???
> 
> Srs question


I lifted your mum off me last night, it was a struggle though, she's a big'un and she did want it bad.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

aesthetics said:


> Original comment there my friend.
> 
> Do you even lift ???
> 
> Srs question


Seems to be hating on me on TM as well???


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## mal (Dec 31, 2009)

sounds like chestbrah lol.


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## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

aesthetics said:


> I dont have one MR 30 % Body fat


its 35% actually


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

Smitch said:


> I lifted your mum off me last night, it was a struggle though, she's a big'un and she did want it bad.


LOL you couldnt lift youre cock with them pipes son.

And ive seen youre face on TM and you are one uglyyyyyyyyyyyy man.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Do you ever secretely wish you were a frying pan?


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## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

Gotta love this place.

Jordan,

Thanks for the comment bro. Just need the condition to go with the aesthetics I do have to be truly happy.

Khaos,

You have it all bruv. Can't wait for the second coming.

Keep doing your thing bro.


----------



## bizzlewood (Dec 16, 2007)

aesthetics said:


> LOL you couldnt lift youre cock with them pipes son.
> 
> And ive seen youre face on TM and you are one uglyyyyyyyyyyyy man.


although your stupidity is entertaining

can you stop i'm bored now


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

GTFO out then.


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

aesthetics said:


> LOL you couldnt lift youre cock with them pipes son.
> 
> And ive seen youre face on TM and you are one uglyyyyyyyyyyyy man.


Hmm, that would be quite hard as there are no face pics of me on there.

But i'm flattered i now have a fan club that follows me around, cheers sweetheart, you've made my day.


----------



## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

a relatively boring thread becomes interesting


----------



## vlb (Oct 20, 2008)

aesthetics said:


> Original comment there my friend.
> 
> Do you even lift ???
> 
> Srs question


he bench presses little scroats like you for fun.....

so yes he does 

why dont you grow a set of balls and stop hiding behind a fake nic......


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## Rekless (May 5, 2009)

Bulk or Clubber Lang.


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

vlb said:


> he bench presses little scroats like you for fun.....
> 
> so yes he does
> 
> why dont you grow a set of balls and stop hiding behind a fake nic......


sorry i dont know what a nic is ???

i cant help you here son.


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

ha ha this is to funny , cant believe I was thinking this guy was serious at first


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Lol looks like i've missed out today.... popcorn anyone?


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Yeah, the troll has gone off to try and think of some funny stuff to say.

He's probably doing a bit of internet research and will be back later, can't wait.

His mum was telling me that she's had venereal diseases that are funnier his jokes.


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

Smitch said:


> Yeah, the troll has gone off to try and think of some funny stuff to say.
> 
> He's probably doing a bit of internet research and will be back later, can't wait.
> 
> His mum was telling me that she's had funnier venereal diseases than his jokes.


Absolutely shocking troll!

I wasnt annoyed once on my thread and one of his responces was "yep"

good one!


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Trolls gonna troll.

Yeah, he trolling. :lol:


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

I was suspecting after his 1st post as it was on an aesthetics thread someones and under the name of 'aesthetics' and then was slating right away... i think an ip search would prove it to be an ex member, not like he stumbled across UKM today knowing what he knew


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

To much jelly in dis room brah.


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

I thought he was funny. Brightened up the forum, turned to utter shit this place of late and load of the best members not posting as much


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## Glassback (Jun 18, 2010)

Guy sounds like a c0ck nose to me...


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## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

Ashcrapper said:


> I thought he was funny. Brightened up the forum, turned to utter shit this place of late and load of the best members not posting as much


to be honest have to agree about the part where the forums gone downhill.

I didn't log on here for about 2-3 weeks mainly as I realised that pretty much since the turn of the year I've only logged on on Friday nights and sat there being what can best be described as bored.

Logged on the other day and did the old checking through the last 20 odd pages of new posts, long story short seems little has been posted that appeals to me personally


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## PHMG (Jun 15, 2010)

davetherave said:


> to be honest have to agree about the part where the forums gone downhill.
> 
> I didn't log on here for about 2-3 weeks mainly as I realised that pretty much since the turn of the year I've only logged on on Friday nights and sat there being what can best be described as bored.
> 
> Logged on the other day and did the old checking through the last 20 odd pages of new posts, long story short seems little has been posted that appeals to me personally


Including this post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YAWN!


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## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

PowerHouseMcGru said:


> Including this post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YAWN!


 :lol:


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## flinty90 (Jul 1, 2010)

davetherave said:


> to be honest have to agree about the part where the forums gone downhill.
> 
> I didn't log on here for about 2-3 weeks mainly as I realised that pretty much since the turn of the year I've only logged on on Friday nights and sat there being what can best be described as bored.
> 
> Logged on the other day and did the old checking through the last 20 odd pages of new posts, long story short seems little has been posted that appeals to me personally


I blame thatcher and the fascist pigs !!!


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## barryd (Nov 26, 2009)

Great photos john very aesthetic,i remember you well from the 70s /80s ahead of your time mate.


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Where's aesthetics gone ? I am enjoying this thread


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## jstarcarr (Aug 6, 2010)

he there post 158 or its his best mate


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## &lt;JAY_JAY&gt; (Jan 4, 2007)

Does anyone have a link to that con or a photo, keep seeing his name come up, there was a guy called con from america young lad who posted here regular but i have not seen him for a long time..


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Also search uinder his other name Lois_lane


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

just got back from the gym maintaining my greek god like aesthetics.

Haters gonna hate.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Clairey.h......


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

haaa go on rob lad


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

aesthetics said:


> you mad im from Croydon ???
> 
> yeah u mad liitle un


Ahh Croydon, i used to do the doors at Blue Orchid, Graneries and a few others but i'm not mention that cos i'm tough....


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## aesthetics (Feb 20, 2011)

lol a 5ft 9 bouncer is about as useful as a plastic towel son.


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

aesthetics said:


> and lol at the say it to my face comment.
> 
> what are you 5ft 7 ??? haha dont make me laugh little one.


Tell you what you mouthy little gobsh!te cnut. I'm 5'5", train Golds Gyn bedford, come see me anytime, and I gurantee I'll hammer your face into the tarmac (only joking officer in case you're reading this). 32 odd posts and you've managed to ruin a thread and p!ss off everyone who's read it. So just to give you a reason to have the hump with me enough to come see me. You my son are fcuked off down the road........ta ta then


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

aesthetics said:


> lol a 5ft 9 bouncer is about as useful as a plastic towel son.


I'm 5'5", done it ten years, had my own firm and even did wheelclamping in Croydon for a few years.....fcuking sh!thole, full of bottless cnuts who are just mouth..........


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

5'9" 17stone, i never ran from a fight and never backed down...still dont, show us a pic of this great physique you have then.......or are you just chatting bull????


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

and don't call me "son"


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

essexboy said:


> How are we defining asthetic? to me Gironda and Reeves would be above.In my opinion,the above list just reads like mutated laboratory experiments,Baring Bob Paris.


We are defining 'aesthetics' in bodybuilding with regards to competitive bodybuilding. Ie the current pro's.

Hence why i gave a list of pro's (all from last 20 years).

From a 'competitive viewpoint'.

Your opinion on aesthetics varies because you dislike the look of the current pro's and prefer the more oldschool pro's. But in my example i was basing it on active/recently active pro bodybuilders.

If you like, i could give a list of bodybuilders from the 60's and 70's who had very good aesthetics as well.

We can only compare like for like. Im not going to compare different eras because they are two totally different standards in bodybuilding.

Vince gironda would not be in my choice for aesthetics regarding old school bb's because i believe one needs more mass in the correct places to achieve an aesthetic look, however reeves would, so would arnold, so would zane, so would metzer and most definately serge nubret. Id also include larry scott, ron teufel, robbie robinson and ed corney.

The main difference with the old school bodybuilders when compared to today's current pro's is the waistline combined with the detail and symetrical property's of the abdominals as well as a taper.

A lot of pro's today do not have sleek symmetrical abdominals with a nice flowing v taper. This is because theyve had to generate a lot more muscle in order to fill out bodyparts to be competitive which causes the midsection to expand as well. Only someone with very good genetics will be able to maintain a sleek midsection with symmetrical abdominals and good taper.

Unfortunately, the midsection is not judged as highly as other things are in bodybuilding these days. For instance, judges mark big freaky legs higher than a lovely symmetrical and chisselled set of carved abs which display a beautiful taper.

If you look at lionel beyeke (new ifbb pro), i think he looks awesome, (most people wont even know who he is on here because they dont follow bodybuilding properly and just regurgitate the same usual names) but beyeke blitzed the mr universe a few years ago and won the french nationals as well as placing second to roelly winklaar at the arnold amateurs in the super heavyweights. Beyeke is 5ft 11 and 106 kg.

Dennis newman is the other guy in the middle, 5ft 11 and 110 kg. Very aesthetic physique.

Naturally my post will fall mostly on deaf ears.


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## El Ricardinho (May 30, 2008)

this thread gave me a few chuckles. there really are a few trumpets popping up on the site these days tho.


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

El Ricardinho said:


> this thread gave me a few chuckles. there really are a few trumpets popping up on the site these days tho.


Just ignore them mate. The actual topic of aesthetics and aesthetically pleasing bodybuilders would be a good topic for the forum, can have good debate etc. I just ignore kids. Same as on bodybuilding.com and stuff like that, you get a thousands of 15 year old little kids start saying things behind their keyboard and they just do it to wind people up. They dont even train themselves, just come on here deliberately to have a little giggle.

Best to just focus on the debate and enjoy 'social communication' with non retarded, relatively educated members = fun and mature way of using forums


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## MarkFranco (Aug 26, 2010)

aesthetics said:


> lol a 5ft 9 bouncer is about as useful as a plastic towel son.


Phewwww.... Im 5"10 so only just make the cut


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

he wound me up and yep i bit FFS, the medication must be wearing off...............


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## Britbb (Sep 7, 2007)

Khaos said:


> he wound me up and yep i bit FFS, the medication must be wearing off...............


Count to 10... relax, ease away from the keyboard... hahaha.

Khaos, you have a quality physique mate, you dont need to bite when someone like this comes on. It doesnt even matter who aesthetics is. He could be anyone.

1. Someone on the forum who has a v good physique, got annoyed with it, decided to make up a fake profile to have a laugh and wind people up.

2. A little kid who hardly trains with sh1t physique, on here to wind people up.

3. (Most likely) your average uk-muscle member with relatively poor physique, relatively poor with women, relatively poor income, relatively poor social communication skills, on here for a laugh to wind people up.

All three have in common 'to wind people up'... as soon as you can be sure someone is a wind up, just ignore straight away mate. Best thing bro. The only way you can wind up the 'troll' is to ignore them, because it means that everything theyve spent the last 30 mins doing has been a waste of their life, as no one is even paying attention to them = their little wind up game = failure.


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.............nah i still want him to call me "phaggot" to my face, if he's 14 then i'll just push him infront of a car...yeah i said it


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## Team1 (Apr 3, 2008)

John Woods is outstanding. Older fella but his pics from through the years ar an inspiration to me


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

Britbb said:


> Count to 10... relax, ease away from the keyboard... hahaha.
> 
> Khaos, you have a quality physique mate, you dont need to bite when someone like this comes on. It doesnt even matter who aesthetics is. He could be anyone.
> 
> ...


wtf


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## austin84 (Nov 18, 2010)

Britbb said:


> Count to 10... relax, ease away from the keyboard... hahaha.
> 
> Khaos, you have a quality physique mate, you dont need to bite when someone like this comes on. It doesnt even matter who aesthetics is. He could be anyone.
> 
> ...


Yup!


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

i've calmed down a bit.............


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

That hendrix on this forum has an amazing physique, legendary, universe worthy, like a young Shaun Ray


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Britbb said:


> 3. (Most likely) your average uk-muscle member with relatively poor physique, relatively poor with women, relatively poor income, relatively poor social communication skills, on here for a laugh to wind people up.


Hahaha that made me LOL i love Britbb's analogies, always make me giggle


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## Hendrix (Sep 16, 2009)

bizzlewood said:


> do you know who you're fcuking with
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol:Feck me i PMSL and then loled some more

Nice one


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Oh, the troll got banned.


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## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

Britbb said:


> Count to 10... relax, ease away from the keyboard... hahaha.
> 
> Khaos, you have a quality physique mate, you dont need to bite when someone like this comes on. It doesnt even matter who aesthetics is. He could be anyone.
> 
> ...


while I agree with the physique part to be honest the other points are far too much of a generalisation, It's like me saying that when I used to do the doors, and came on here at 5 or 6am to wind down a bit, all of the people who were online then cannot get a hump

not true by any stretch of the imagination, poor income can often lead to being better in bed as there is not the opportunity to lavish presents on (ie buy) people so other areas have to be increased

also, regarding income most of the ex competers I used to be aware of topped up their income with door work which was at the time £10 an hour, which is not great by any stretch of the imagination


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

4. have some wierd god complex


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## Smitch (Dec 29, 2008)

Ashcrapper said:


> 4. have some wierd god complex


That's Mr God to you minion.


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## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

5 enjoy having other peoples penis's inserted into their ears


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

Raptor said:


> Personally i'd say Clubber Lang.. he's 17st 11 in this pic and is this lean year round


LOL, was never expecting to scroll down and see that picture!!

didnt do too bad on that cycle considering i did zero cardio and only extremely light leg extensions due to a horrible tendon strain above my left knee ha.


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## AlbertSteptoe (Dec 26, 2010)

Britbb said:


> .
> 
> 3. (Most likely) your average uk-muscle member with relatively poor physique, relatively poor with women, relatively poor income, relatively poor social communication skills, on here for a laugh to wind people up.


what you on about? everyone on here's a stud and knobbed 100s of girls


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## essexboy (Sep 7, 2008)

Britbb said:


> We are defining 'aesthetics' in bodybuilding with regards to competitive bodybuilding. Ie the current pro's.
> 
> Hence why i gave a list of pro's (all from last 20 years).
> 
> ...


As usual Brit, we are pretty much on the same page.The issue of the midsection, as you say has virtually now become totally overlooked.The above guys, whilst very impressive, just carry took much size for my liking.The term "asthetically pleasing" is really so vague anyway.It might have caused less conflicts of opinion if it was called "whats your favourite shape" .


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> LOL, was never expecting to scroll down and see that picture!!
> 
> didnt do too bad on that cycle considering i did zero cardio and only extremely light leg extensions due to a horrible tendon strain above my left knee ha.


Looking epic mate, and damn you lol for eating chocolate and crisps and staying at that low bf% without even doing any cardio

You swine


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## will-uk (Apr 12, 2010)

Just been reading to catch up from the other day, was he for real? what a w*nker!!!!


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

he was supposedly over 5'11" and had a physique like a god.....and he says he is from Croydon, even though he told me to "jog on" which is not common talk in croydon....


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## Bambi (Jul 1, 2009)

Dude was a 4chan/bodybuilding.com troll. Pretty obvious from the language he used. Not worth provoking them I suppose. Khaos, I'd love him to say those things to your face


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## evad (Mar 17, 2008)

whilst I may be stepping over a line here, do people have to be big to be aesthetically appealing?

some of the member mentioned are in great shape, but none of the how can we say smaller or lighter members have yet to be mentioned


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

davetherave said:


> whilst I may be stepping over a line here, do people have to be big to be aesthetically appealing?
> 
> some of the member mentioned are in great shape, but none of the how can we say smaller or lighter members have yet to be mentioned


Dont know about being big but they need to be developed....and to have a developed physique you will be bigger than the average bear IMO


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

Bambi said:


> Dude was a 4chan/bodybuilding.com troll. Pretty obvious from the language he used. Not worth provoking them I suppose. Khaos, I'd love him to say those things to your face


i would have loved to super slo mo his ass


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## Lorian (Apr 9, 2003)

The troll posts have been removed and the replies which quoted him.

Thanks for reporting it guys 

L


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## Fatstuff (Mar 2, 2010)

Lorian said:


> The troll posts have been removed and the replies which quoted him.
> 
> Thanks for reporting it guys
> 
> L


In that case- most aesthetically pleasing to me is arnie in his hey day . That is the perfect physique.


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## Suprakill4 (Jul 11, 2008)

My vote goes to incredible bulk.


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## OJay (Mar 7, 2008)

With all this talk of aesthetics be good to get pics into their own thread and have a little poll


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## scobielad (Feb 27, 2010)

Yup Clubber Lang...he be the man.


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## scobielad (Feb 27, 2010)

54und3r5....have a look...impressive physique.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

sorry, that 1st picture was taken summer 2009 after using tren-ace, test & mast-prop seperately.

Heres what shape i got into before my jollys in summer 2010 using the same meds but carbed down for the 1st time in a cycle. Was at the start of this cycle i strained my tendon which KO'd any serious quad training. Again, zero cardio, which i couldnt have done if i wanted to due to my tendon injury.


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## Raptor (Feb 16, 2010)

Looking good in that last pic, and veiny! How come you have never looked in to competing?

You only look 6-8 weeks of stage condition year round imo


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## H22civic (Oct 6, 2009)

Unreal physique mate. :thumbup1:

Would be very happy if i could get somwhere near that in my lifetime.


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## m575 (Apr 4, 2010)

Come on your just showing off now :lol:


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## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Clubber you are one sexy fuking beast.


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

Raptor said:


> Looking good in that last pic, and veiny! How come you have never looked in to competing?
> 
> You only look 6-8 weeks of stage condition year round imo


cus im here and there with work alot of the time so cant plan anything ahead. With away work im not back to the digs till late evening then its a shower, pint, food and bed. Hands on all day so too tired to go searching for a gym.

happy doing what im doing + walking on stage wearing a budgie smuggler scares me pmsl!!


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## scobielad (Feb 27, 2010)

Clubber Lang, where and when do you find time to train then?


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## Clubber Lang (Nov 4, 2009)

scobielad said:


> Clubber Lang, where and when do you find time to train then?


Nottingham mate.

When i work local im in the gym for 5ish, just when working away on site i dont stop all day, so rdy for a steak and bed really. Catch up training at weekends, but then i work the doors friday and saturday till the early hours so hard finding the energy but have to crack on.


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## IrishRaver (Feb 4, 2010)

Clubber Lang said:


> Nottingham mate.
> 
> When i work local im in the gym for 5ish, just when working away on site i dont stop all day, so rdy for a steak and bed really. Catch up training at weekends, but then i work the doors friday and saturday till the early hours so hard finding the energy but have to crack on.


That sounds gold mate.. it makes sense to push your body hard, it needs stress to grow.


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## _Shaun_ (Mar 2, 2011)

Great physique.

Traps not overdeveloped.

Good delt development, narrow waist.

Superb.


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## miggs (Jan 8, 2011)

...


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

!!!


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

@@@


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## miggs (Jan 8, 2011)

Ashcrapper said:


> !!!


???


----------



## miggs (Jan 8, 2011)

###


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

---


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## miggs (Jan 8, 2011)

Ashcrapper said:


> ---


Ashcrapper I'm gonna kick ur ass b1atch...

&&&


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## Ashcrapper (Jul 3, 2008)

:tongue: :laugh: :lol:


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## Milky (Nov 30, 2008)

... --- ...


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## Robsta (Oct 2, 2005)

Clubber .....I'm sure if you went down the competing road, you'd have no trouble getting sponsors to offset the time you lose from work mate.....ssh!t hot physique btw.....I like my drink and the other too much to get int hat good a shape....in fact just got in.......lol


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## uknumbr14 (Sep 24, 2007)

magic torch is ripped to shreds- great obliques, 8 pack, mega lean- and plenty of muscle mass!!

con has a mega physique- great balance, knows exactly how to sculpt a physique


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## Khaos1436114653 (Aug 28, 2009)

~~~


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

uknumbr14 said:


> magic torch is ripped to shreds- great obliques, 8 pack, mega lean- and plenty of muscle mass!!
> 
> con has a mega physique- great balance, knows exactly how to sculpt a physique


Finally after 16 pages......LMAO (money ok via paypal as agreed?)

In all seriousness, I fall behind on aesthetics with my chest, I'm getting there with it, when its balanced out with my shoulders I hope I'll be a little better, then another 8-10 Kgs spread out over quads, arms and chest and I'll be happy with my physique, and hopfully still healthy looking.

U competing this year mate?


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## uknumbr14 (Sep 24, 2007)

ha ill bang my paypal email over now!! chest looking good on pic, theres thickness there, yes mate competing this year in Nabba, im going sloooow this time, rushed it last year and totally screwed up, im coming in alot slower now, not even started cardio yet, im getting quite vascular already so dont want to push it, i was 19 stone so trying to get down to 14. 7 stone, thats the weight i came in when i last competed and won in Nabba so hoping ill time it just right


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

uknumbr14 said:


> ha ill bang my paypal email over now!! chest looking good on pic, theres thickness there, yes mate competing this year in Nabba, im going sloooow this time, rushed it last year and totally screwed up, im coming in alot slower now, not even started cardio yet, im getting quite vascular already so dont want to push it, i was 19 stone so trying to get down to 14. 7 stone, thats the weight i came in when i last competed and won in Nabba so hoping ill time it just right


Ah that is a big drop! Defo would lose muscle doing it quick! I think you'll hold a more mass if you stick to a 2-3lb a week loss....defo in great shape in your pic if you can meet or better that then you'll be in a good place!


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## uknumbr14 (Sep 24, 2007)

thanku- thats was 07 Nabba, yea thats what im scared of- i totally cocked it up last year so slowly does it. i dont stay lean all yr round so it looks more of a dramatic loss. my back is not as good thus far, still holding stubborn fat tho so when its stripped give me a better indication of where im @


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## stephy (May 24, 2009)

GM-20, Origin & his wife liz think shes gymbabeliz on here

ramsey


----------



## PRL (Jul 5, 2006)

stephy said:


> GM-20, Origin & his wife liz think shes gymbabeliz on here
> 
> ramsey


If were talking aesthetics, Origin (Kami) would be up there.

Good shoulder to waist ratio

V taper

Bee sting waist

Sweeping thighs

For me, if your talking aesthetics gotta have that V taper.

Kami and John Wood. Get more photos up.


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## Magic Torch (May 30, 2005)

stephy said:


> GM-20, Origin & his wife liz think shes gymbabeliz on here
> 
> ramsey


Thats a bit racsist! They are all Scotish! lol all the scots sticking together 

I agree with you and Pete, Kami has an awesome physique, I spent a good bit of time with him at the Brits backstage in 2009 and he condition then showed his physique off real well - a great picture of what a classic Bodybuiler should be....I think he was a few KGs off his limit, if he'd have been closer then Bobby Khan would have had a tougher time winning the trophy!


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## stephy (May 24, 2009)

Magic Torch said:


> Thats a bit racsist! They are all Scotish! lol all the scots sticking together
> 
> !


haha im just going by people ive actually seen in the flesh


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## Andy Dee (Jun 1, 2008)

Robsta said:


> Clubber .....I'm sure if you went down the competing road, you'd have no trouble getting sponsors to offset the time you lose from work mate.....ssh!t hot physique btw.....*I like my drink and the other too much to get int hat good a shape*....in fact just got in.......lol


Thats such a relief, thought I was the only one


----------

