# Typical clueless



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Hey all, newbie here.

I'm 37 at around 20%bf and weigh around 12st 10 been hitting the gym religiously every lunch break for a year. I don't know what I was when I started but I imagine it was probably around 25%bf

First three months there was a noticable change, but since then it's all slowed down. Still improving but I'm feeling a bit disheartened each time I see myself in the mirror.

I have no intention of becoming a super ripped bodybuilder with 5% bf, but if I could get anywhere between 10 and 15% I'd be very happy, especially if people can look at me and be like "hey, that Viking looking dude must work out" (I say Viking cos I like my beard)

Im open to the idea of using supplements (just bought some creatine) have been drinking protein shakes religiously and have been obsessing over my protein intake and have researched "ehem" other performance enhancing substances but from what I understand its unwise to start that sort of thing at my current BF, and the chances of getting ripped off online are pretty astronomical. So I'll wait for a bit till I'm in a more suitable bf range. But I'm going to need some help and advice because man I feel like I've hit a goddam wall. My arms look better and whatnot but that fat is just not shifting any more.... help!


----------



## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

If your not losing reduce calories or up cardio, simple, youv not mentioned your diet and training whatsoever mate


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

Charlee Scene said:


> If your not losing reduce calories or up cardio, simple, youv not mentioned your diet and training whatsoever mate


 Bingo, the one important bit of info is the bit missing from his first post 

protein shakes are just a food, they offer zero benefits for fat burning or anything they are just calories like a pasty or brown rice or sausages

supplements etc won't help you buddy, if your not losing weight either move more or eat less, I'm guessing you've probably started at a very low unsustainable calorie level and now you have nowhere to go, or you'd just knock 100 calories off and weight loss would carry on, you need to get a handle on calories and how stuff effects you before using other tools at your disposal as they are the icing on the cake rather than a method for weight loss

how are you training and what is your nutrition looking like as of now?


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

The reason you are not losing weight is simply, you are eating too much. The fundamentals of weight loss or gain, seem to be lost on most people. You did not mention calories. You have no idea how many calories you are consuming. Which will also mean you have no idea how many calories you need to lose weight. This is nothing to do with supplements, protein, steroids or fat burners. You are consuming too many calories.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Work out your tdee and then punch what you eat into MyFitnessPal (free app)

Best place to start imo, as this will give you a reasonably accurate guide as to how many calories you need and how many you are actually consuming.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Ah I'm, not being obtuse or evasive, I'm here with my big boy pants on. Bear with me, I'm a bit of a loner and don't know anyone else doing this, I've never discussed it with people before hence why I'm here. Ask and I'll be forthcoming if I know the answer. Am aware to lose weight I need to be in a deficit. But it's not really weight I want to lose, it's fat. I have fitness pal and mostly remember to use it, currently eat at maintenance give or take a few which i think is around 2,600 calories.

been trying to recompose this last year, I can definitely feel the improvement in muscle and people have noticed, I definitely look better and fill a t shirt in most of the right places now but still don't like what I see with my top off and catch the odd glimpse of muffin poking over my jeans and a bit of remaining man boob, and I feel progress has slowed down. I hear it's very common for there to be a big improvement at first then things slow down as your body adjusts to the new lifestyle. i don't want to lose weight, if anything I want to put a couple of stone on, say go up to around 15 or 16. It's the fat on my torso that I find so bothersome.

Currently training wise I go 5days per week for half hour to an hour on the gym floor lifting weights, once a month I have a pt session I go hard when I'm there. Always try to put a bit more weight on and rep till failure. Do t do much in the way of cardio since I f**ked my knee. But it's on the mend. I'm going to join an MMA gym in the spring (by spring I mean when it's stopped snowing ?)

Should mention I don't eat meat, but do eat fish and dairy. So been trying to get my nutrition right, but I'll admit evenings and weekends when I'm not eating alone and I have the battle with the Mrs and kids over food and I'm always outnumbered. I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that I'll be eating alone pretty soon, or at least a different meal.

I feel it's probably time to change strategy, rather than just ticking along and hoping my fat/muscle ratio is about where I want it by the time I hit 50 I'd rather take control of the situation.

so, I know it's a bit of a joke for Newbs to ask this, but from this point do I cut or bulk? Is it worth getting to desired weight and then stripping back the fat?... or do I strip it back now and then beef up?

My fear is that I cut down I'll lose all the muscle I've built, or if I bulk up I'll just put more fat on. But recomping is taking a really bloody long time and I don't have the money for a pt 3 times a week.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Nail your diet and start cutting for summer. Stay lean through summer , bulk hard through winter.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Without some pics we cannot really advise on whether you should cut or bulk. I've seen people post pics in here asking if they should bulk when they are borderline obese. Others post pics asking if they should cut who are cachectic. Post some up.

Broadly speaking, it's impossible to build muscle whilst in deficit. Hence why we cut and bulk in phases.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

Bigboypants said:


> I'm a bit of a loner and don't know anyone else doing this


 Perhaps go to the gym in the evening once a week and start talking to some of the lads there. You'll get plenty who will offer advice. Lifters are proper anoraks and love talking about training.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Thanks for taking the time, Ill try and get some pics together tonight


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Post up a pic


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Eat less, move more.


----------



## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

Sasnak said:


> Perhaps go to the gym in the evening once a week and start talking to some of the lads there. You'll get plenty who will offer advice. Lifters are proper anoraks and love talking about training.


 True.

But most talk utter nonsense.


----------



## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

If you want to lose fat you need to lose weight, albeit slowly, you can still add a little muscle while in a slight deficit

or you can get the cut out of the way ASAP and drop calories to say 2200 and cut and aim for 0.5-1lb a week, you wont lose muscle at that rate, you will feel like you are, but that's the head f**k, currently your muscles are interspersed with fat, so you lose fat and they look smaller, also you will look flat while your in a deficit, but you need to focus on it being a means to an end and flatness and thinking your losing muscle is part of the game!

youll look a lot better leaner and you will then be in a lot better position to judge fat gain and gain muscle (which you need a minimum of to gain muscle efficiently as you have found out by trying to stay lean, lose fat and gain muscle all at the same time!)

The other thing you you need to consider is that although you consider 2600 to be your maintenance, you will probably find that you could eat 2800 or 2400 and remain the same weight, your body adjusts to some degree and adjusts metabolism and a variety of other stuff to take advantage of extra calories and you will neither gain or lose weight, people speak of maintenance like it's a set point and 200 below you lose, and 200 above you'd gain, sadly its not like that, however that's why you sometimes need to drop calories by 100 to start weight loss once it ceases or the same to start gains again, once you get to know your body and how it responds better you can adjust by whatever you need and maybe go 200 calories as you know your top or bottom end of maintenance has moved a touch

set protein in grams at body weight in pounds, so if your 10 stone, 140lbs you'd eat 140g of protein

get 20-25% of calories from decent fat sources

and the remainder in carbs


----------



## Charlee Scene (Jul 6, 2010)

Eat in a deficit for just now then bulk after I wouldn't be making it harder than it needs to be man, as said tho mate post pics but if your carrying fat personally I'd cut and get it out the way


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Ok here's some pics. Hardly an Adonis, but an improvement on last year for sure.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

And don't laugh at my tribal tattoo, it was cool in the 90s


----------



## Mr Wuppet (Mar 22, 2017)

Kudos on the progress so far, but IMHO, you have no business taking extra "supplements". You'll find I'm also on the verge of taking PEDs and worried that my BF is too high to start as well, so I can relate. I mean this with the greatest respect, but your BF is too high and you have little muscle mass. BUT YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, because I've been in your position.

What you need is a decent program, a decent diet (you don't have to stick to it religiously) and consistency. Maybe some cardio as well; could be anything from swimming to rowing to martial arts; whatever!

I made decent progress in a year (including time off from a broken wrist and a car crash accident) by using Starting Strength and Candito's Linear Program. Google both. If you have limited time to train (in your lunch break), ignore optional exercises in the programs and stick to the core exercises.

Regarding cut or bulk; neither! Train at maintenance; stick to the same number of calories for at least a month, and only up the calories when you stall on one of your main lifts (bench, squat or deadlift) at least two times.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

I think you are being a bit hard on yourself to be honest. As above, I'd eat at around maintenance and nail training. Keep your pics and then take some more in 12 weeks and I can guarantee you will make good progress. As Superdrol says. Your maintenance will vary. For example, it has been bloody cold so you burn more calories when it is cold.

Now we've sorted that out, what training plan are you following?


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

I deliberately took unflattering photos, not that my selfie game is anywhere near teenage girl level, but with the right light and a bit of posing i can make myself look half decent. But I wanted to show the bits that I see and bother me, IE bit of back fat over my belt etc

@Mr Wuppet thanks, I'll check those programs out. The candito one looks most promising. So far I've been mostly splitting my routine out into the following:

monday: chest - bench press using normal bench and smith machine and pec flys

tuseday: arms - biceps only or biceps and triceps varying the excersises

wednesday: back - pull ups, lat pull downs, rows etc

thursday: shoulders - flys, overhead press etc

friday: legs/compound excersises alternating each week

weekend: occasionally I do a session on the weekend, especially if I missed a day through the week for whatever reason. I usually have much more time to play with so do a good all round session but it's usually busy which I hate. Like I say I'm a bit of a loner.

i live in a constant state of DOMS ?

as you can see I've not been doing much in the way of compound excersises or legs ? probably my least favourite plus the knee injury stopped me doing any weight bearing but I know I can start doing more of these now although I will have to be careful.

as far as "supplements" goes, I've been trying to reduce carbs and increase protein. My diet before was basically carbs with a bit of sugar thrown in for flavour. It was fine most of my life as up till 30 I was about 8.5 stone then I got married and had kinds and ballooned to 13 stone of skinny fat.

So protein shakes and lots of fish is the new diet. As I dont eat meat sups have been very useful.

unless you mean slightly more... ehem performance enhancing type of things in which case the research I did basically says I need to be under 15% bf before starting or find a greater risk of sides. I'm not an idiot and am trying to get rid of my man tits not make them fuller and more bouncy.

The reason I'm wanting to cut or bulk is that the last year I've been at maintenance and that has all slowed down, I think my body has got wise to my tricks, I like to deal in certainties so the thought of going another year only to find either no progress or that by making a few changes it has slowed or stopped again is going to frustrate me and I'd hate to get disheartened and quit as a result, it would be a lot of hard work and positive changes down the drain. I feel like I need to see some progress again.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

You are doing fine. Don't overthink it! Presume you have kids under 12? If so, take them swimming and look at the state of most blokes your age at the swimming pool. It'll put things into perspective


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Sasnak said:


> You are doing fine. Don't overthink it! Presume you have kids under 12? If so, take them swimming and look at the state of most blokes your age at the swimming pool. It'll put things into perspective


 Thanks, I posted a picture of my back fat on a bodybuilding forum so was honestly expecting to get slayed.

Yes age 3 and 5, they certainly don't help with getting enough sleep.


----------



## Dark sim (May 18, 2013)

Bigboypants said:


> Ah I'm, not being obtuse or evasive, I'm here with my big boy pants on. Bear with me, I'm a bit of a loner and don't know anyone else doing this, I've never discussed it with people before hence why I'm here. Ask and I'll be forthcoming if I know the answer. Am aware to lose weight I need to be in a deficit. But it's not really weight I want to lose, it's fat. I have fitness pal and mostly remember to use it, currently eat at maintenance give or take a few which i think is around 2,600 calories.
> 
> been trying to recompose this last year, I can definitely feel the improvement in muscle and people have noticed, I definitely look better and fill a t shirt in most of the right places now but still don't like what I see with my top off and catch the odd glimpse of muffin poking over my jeans and a bit of remaining man boob, and I feel progress has slowed down. I hear it's very common for there to be a big improvement at first then things slow down as your body adjusts to the new lifestyle. i don't want to lose weight, if anything I want to put a couple of stone on, say go up to around 15 or 16. It's the fat on my torso that I find so bothersome.
> 
> ...


 If you are not prepared to cut calories then you will not lose fat. I'll be as blunt as I need to be so you get it, calorie deficit.

To help set up your TDEE for cutting, use this formula.

Bodyweight in lbs x10-12 = TDEE for cutting.

Protein at 0.8g per lbs will fulfill your protein requirements, which will limit muscle loss.

The remaining calories can be up to you. There is no ideal macro split.

After now seeing your pics, I would advise against any form of bulk. You need to lose body fat.


----------



## sjacks (Dec 10, 2017)

You just look like the average guy who doesn't train (not meant to be an insult) what is it they say, skinny-fat? I wouldn't categorize you as fat tbh but you need some muscle mass, not even from the perspective of becoming a bodybuilder, just to be healthy, physically capable and to get your body used to being in an anabolic state which enables you to burn more fat and less muscle when exercising - of course this effect would be amplified with a little test and at 37 you're about perfect age wise, though I'm not saying go on gear - maybe speak to a doctor, see if you can get on TRT or get some bloods done, at least then you will know where you're at.

Like others have said, if you want to lose weight DIET is the #1 thing you need to regulate. Quantity and quality of food. Don't eat empty calories like mars bars, keep off takeaways and pre-packaged convenience foods , eat healthy whole foods and eat less. You could shed 1/2 a stone at least in 3 months or less through just diet without exercise, if you stick to it. Other than that, get a training plan. A good place to start would be the staple exercises;



Squat


Bench


Dead-lift


Incorporate all three every week if you can, go light, go for reps. Sets of 10 or more. Your body shape will change within a short time through this. Also think about doing core exercises, stomach crunches, sit-ups etc, These will help with stability and keeping your form which is important to protect against injury.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

I'll try not to cry too hard about looking like the average guy that doesn't work out even after a year of busting my balls haha

Downloaded the strong app. Just getting my head around it. Looks good though, especially the Apple Watch bit. Great suggestion, I think it will help me keep track of strength progress as so far it's all been in my head.

Have taken on board suggestion regarding squats, deadlifts and bench press. Was doing bench press anyway but deadlifts was only about once a fortnight and squats haven't been done for months due to an injured knee.

so at today's session I did the following:

deadlifts,

x 1 set 60kg x10reps

x 4 sets 80kg x6-8 reps

Squats (starting light on these due to knee)

x 1 set 40kg x10 reps

x4 sets 50kg 6-8 reps

Definitely glad I did the squats, have had the fear looming over me about the knee but after the first set it was ok, although I've definitely got weaker. My legs have been a bit wobbly all day now.

tomorrow will do chest as normal which will include majority of bench press and pec flys as a finisher.

wed will be pull ups and upper back

thursday arms

friday legs

rinse and repeat.

Diet wise, well mostly carry on as before but track the calories and macros a little more strictly on evenings and weekends, consuming approx 1g protein per lb of body weight. Maintenance is 2600cal am currently aiming for 2280cal

So does that routine look ok to you guys?

Thanks

edit: should mention I'll be going up a bit of weight each week.


----------



## Sasnak (Oct 11, 2016)

As sjacks says, compound movements. I would follow the StrongLifts program most of the time but the gym where I train only has one rack. It's not practical for me to train elsewhere for other reasons.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Reckon that's enough compound lifts In my routine?

I joined the gym group, don't have much to compare them to but they seem to have pretty good kit, pretty cheap and both the ones I use have 3 racks.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Hey all,

Bit of an update, so after a few days adjustment of diet and increasing cardio I've started to lose weight again, at around 1.5lb per week.

I've been buying and making my own meals and keeping them I the fridge so when I'm out and the only option is junk or the Mrs insists on 99% pasta with 1% protein for a meal I can leave her to it and eat my own pre-prepared meal. It sounds so simple but not easy to do without causing offense, I am autistic so I struggle with understanding the intricacies of this, but I am left with little choice at this time so f**k it.

My weekends are a massive ramp down on energy expenditure so the tricky bit has been working out how to compensate for that. IE, lower intake or increase expenditure when all I want to do is veg out and catch up on lost sleep.

Accoding to the body comp thingy at the gym my bf% has stayed the same, so I guess I'm losing muscle and fat at the same rate? Bit disappointed by that tbh but I'll persevere.

Im pretty sure i have mild gyno, I suspect I've probably always had it since a teenager but until I got married I used to be so skinny, around 8.5 to 9.5 stone, at 5ft 11in male im sure you can imagine my arms were like twigs most of my life and all you could see on my chest was ribs ? So I think I just couldn't see it before. But now unless I'm cold I can definitely more tissue around the nipples. The more I've been learning about steroids the more I think I already have pre-existing Gyno.

If I keep losing weight do you guys think I'll lose that again or now I've put weight on and am in the process of losing it again will it stay? I'm sure a bit of an open ended question. I should probably go to the doctor about it right? Find out my hormone levels? Which I'll certainly do before going anywhere near steroids any way but maybe I should find out now?

And with regards to my current routine it's still in the air a bit, I've taken the advice of increasing compound lifting (deadlifts, squats, chest press and core) so I do each once a week. Should I focus the rest of my energy into cardio now? So far I've been doing a spin class each Monday, burning between 3 and 400 calories in half an hour! So shall I just do those compounds and the rest cardio until I'm at desired bf?

Thanks again for all your advice everyone. It's really been a help.


----------



## 72670 (Sep 17, 2016)

Bigboypants said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Bit of an update, so after a few days adjustment of diet and increasing cardio I've started to lose weight again, at around 1.5lb per week.
> 
> ...


 I am no expert on gyno but I am pretty sure if you you don't have it when you are cold it will just be fat and not gyno, gyno is a hard lump


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

Yeah, the lumps are small. Hopefully once I'm at 0.5% BF (joke) they won't be noticeable.

But my nipples have always been a bit on the puffy side. Just makes me think I should probably find out if there is any kind of imbalance so I can be fully prepared when the time comes to ramp things up.

main focus for me at the moment is to shed whatever I can.


----------



## Bigboypants (Mar 1, 2018)

I think I posted this in the wrong place so I'll repost here and revive the old thread

So since April/May I've been dieting reasonably well and training (mostly) cardio and gone from approx 21%bf to 16-17%. Just a short way to go before I hit the magic 15% I'm 38 and been lifting for a bit more than a year and a half.

Have I reached my peak naturally? no of course not, but I'm 38 not 25, so by the time I reach my peak I'll be retiring. Anyway, I look a darn sight better than I did two years ago and am now going to take it up a notch.

At the moment I'm doing 4 days a week cardio and days 2 strength but once I hit 15%bf I'll be doing dedicated cardio just once a week and doing strength splits 5 days... anyhoo. Training/diet aren't what I'm stuck on.

i have some oral dianabol, milk thistle and Nolvadex sitting in the cabinet spurring me on. I'd much rather do an oral cycle as I hate needles but advice seems to go for test as a base or on its own over Dianabol. So I'm going to man the heck up and order in some TM Test E 250 and Arimadex. Hopefully I don't get ripped off.

So, I have a couple of questions,

1) should I even bother with the D-Bol? Or just run test first time round. Or can I skip the needles for now and dianabol on its own would be ok?

2) should I take arimadex regardless of symptoms or just keep it nearby and take it if my nipples itch/get sore and I forget which way round is my left and right. Nolvadex is for PCT, would I need anything else?

3) injecting... umm I have never used a needle on myself or anyone else. Where would I even get needles from? A chemist? A park bin? Or worse... eBay? And how do I actually do it? Can anyone direct me to some sort of guide? Please nothing that tells me to put my phone in the microwave, I've already fallen for that one 3 times.

4) what the heck is pip?

Again, please forgive my noobness. But I am a noob and it's what we do. Hence why I'm here for advice from you sagely lot.

thanks! BBP


----------



## Will2309 (Jan 15, 2012)

Q1 I wouldn't bother with the dbol. Just run the test but that's me.

Q2 All depends on how much test you will be taking, Iam on 300mg a week and I don't need to take any AIs. Only blood test will really know 6 week into your cycle weather you will know if you need it or not.

Q3 I get my needles from exchange supplies.

Q4 PIP is post injection pain.

Plenty of you tubes videos around to help you with how to pin and where.

I do quads, delts and glutes.


----------



## TRTRT (Jul 9, 2018)

I got needles from medisave website, got 21gauge for drawing and 23guage for pinning all fine with me.

Didn't want to look like a junkie going in to a needle exchange, delivery was in non-medical box as well so discreet.

Pin quads e3.5d switching between quads every time, rarely get PIP (post injection pain) anymore after the first couple, but when you start they will feel like a dead leg.

I would suggest getting a blood test first to check out baseline levels of everything. Might be worth running TRT dose for a while which will help transform your body before jumping straight into a blast.


----------

