# compound lower/upper can build big guns?



## smallboy (Jun 13, 2013)

upper

Bench press 4x10

Rows 4x10

Overhead press 4x10

Chinup 4x10

can build big gun?


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## Jordan08 (Feb 17, 2014)

Heavy pull movements largely contribute to the biceps growth however at the end of pulling session, i don't mind couple of heavy sets of hammer curl. Icing on the cake.

On pressing movement, a lot depends on your width/ grip.


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

It can work, but it's not just about the exercise selection and sets/reps - is also about how intensely you train and how frequently you train.

In regards to you specifically and whether this will build you big arms, it depends. Assuming you are doing everything right with the routine, your arms will certainly grow but the degree to which a persons arm mass increases without specific arm work and just by using heavy compounds does tend to vary a little - some people simply won't get the best results without specific arm exercises, others see all the growth they need from compound exercises alone.


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## JB91 (Jul 31, 2017)

I find I need to target specifically my arms, I feel they are a weak point for me.

It took me a while to realize that the best method for myself was to mix heavier sets, with lighter ones. For example, 2 sets of 5 heavy curls, followed by 2 sets of 20 lighter curls. The pump I get after this is something else compared to what I was getting, and the growth has been noticeable.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

I need to improve my biceps they really don't want to budge, I have short biceps and they are a weak point i just can't make grounds on, tried everything I can think of.


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

I think in general, MOST people will gain the majority of their arm size from a gain in overall muscular bodyweight....ie if you go from 175lb's to 190 at similar bf%, your arms will grow....

At some point though to maximize your results you will need to include direct arm work, you dont need a ton of exercises or sets but progressive overload still applies....

Ultimately the amount you will benefit will come down to genetics, ie if you have great arm genetics you may find your arms blow up with only a modest increase in body size, those on the other end of the spectrum will need a significant increase in body size to get modest improvements....good luck man!


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

ausmaz said:


> I think in general, MOST people will gain the majority of their arm size from a gain in overall muscular bodyweight....ie if you go from 175lb's to 190 at similar bf%, your arms will grow....
> 
> At some point though to maximize your results you will need to include direct arm work, you dont need a ton of exercises or sets but progressive overload still applies....
> 
> Ultimately the amount you will benefit will come down to genetics, ie if you have great arm genetics you may find your arms blow up with only a modest increase in body size, those on the other end of the spectrum will need a significant increase in body size to get modest improvements....good luck man!


 This

Also getting your compound lifts up are going to put the most meat on your arms

Put 20kg on your bench during a calorie surplus and your tri's will grow significantly more so than if you add 5kg to your tricep extensions

The main one is getting bigger in general as ausmaz mentioned, people seem to think they can grow these disproportionately large arms when really your body will want to grow as a whole and as such full upper body development is required for significant increase in arm growth


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## dtlv (Jul 24, 2009)

ausmaz said:


> I think in general, MOST people will gain the majority of their arm size from a gain in overall muscular bodyweight....ie if you go from 175lb's to 190 at similar bf%, your arms will grow....
> 
> At some point though to maximize your results you will need to include direct arm work, you dont need a ton of exercises or sets but progressive overload still applies....
> 
> Ultimately the amount you will benefit will come down to genetics, ie if you have great arm genetics you may find your arms blow up with only a modest increase in body size, those on the other end of the spectrum will need a significant increase in body size to get modest improvements....good luck man!


 This says it much better than I did. Nice post.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The way I see it is this - if you progress on the basic arm exercises (barbell curls and CGBP or skullcrushers) with strict form, your arms have to grow. If you started out curling 20kg for reps and after a solid few years of training you can curl 50kg for reps, you're gonna have added some mass to your biceps. I train my arms like I would any other muscle group, by getting in my heavy progression-focused basic exercises in as well as getting some higher rep pump-based training in also. I started with 11" arms and now I have 17.5" arms.


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Dead lee said:


> I need to improve my biceps they really don't want to budge, I have short biceps and they are a weak point i just can't make grounds on, tried everything I can think of.


 Synthol?


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Synthol?


 Never thought of it to be honest have you?


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Dead lee said:


> Never thought of it to be honest have you?


 Nah mate, looks too easy to f**k up IMO and end up looking like a c**t.

I think it would intensify my body dysmophia to insane levels as well.

But when its done right, i reckon it could really make any bodypart pop, im sure all the high levellers do it and look good.

My bi's are one of my better muscle groups, but tris are waaay too short, awful insertions on them means my arms look extremely skinny unless im sleeveless  Ill swap you any day mate.


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## thecoms (Nov 1, 2010)

Train my arms traditional for years i.e basic exercises and heavy. Now do higher reps and train quicker and they have improved.

Hammer curls are a great exercise in my opinion.


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> Nah mate, looks too easy to f**k up IMO and end up looking like a c**t.
> 
> I think it would intensify my body dysmophia to insane levels as well.
> 
> ...


 If I didnt have decent tri's I wouldn't have an arm lol

Asked a guy who's got massive arms which look out of proportion to his frame if he used synthol yesterday , he said no but said he was 'thinking' of using it soon and linked me the synthetic brand link... Hmmm lol


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## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Dead lee said:


> If I didnt have decent tri's I wouldn't have an arm lol
> 
> Asked a guy who's got massive arms which look out of proportion to his frame if he used synthol yesterday , he said no but said he was 'thinking' of using it soon and linked me the synthetic brand link... Hmmm lol


 "was planning on it" is the most bang statement anyone makes, its what people say 6 weeks into their first cycle when people notice :lol:

Would be nice to have mammoth arms though, not like piana proportions but maybe just optimal, think flex wheeler in his prime. Wishes are worthless though!


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## P.D.S (Aug 15, 2017)

I think short length of arms don't need much of a direct work. It may affect negatively. When arms feel overtrained . Cut back on direct arm volume. I myself experienced this recently. If you can't flex and feel your arms flat .reduce direct work . Dead lifts , pull ups will build super arms


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## Mingster (Mar 25, 2011)

I didn't train my arms directly for years and still developed big arms. Even nowadays I do very little direct arm work and it's the first thing I drop as my big lifts get close to maximum.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

smallboy said:


> upper
> 
> Bench press 4x10
> 
> ...


 My upper lower split:

*Upper: Mon, Thurs*

BB Bench press 3x 8-10 reps per exercise - Every 3 months or so I alternate which angle I choose to lift first.

Flat 3 x 8 - 10 reps, Decline 3 x 8 - 10 reps, Incline 3 x 8 - 10 reps .

Wide grip chins 3x 8 -10 reps

Rows 3 x 8 -10 reps

BB Press behind the neck 3 x 8 x10 reps

Shrugs 3 x 8 -10 reps

Triceps 3 x 8 - 10 reps

Bicep curls 3 x 8 - 10 reps

*Lower: Tues, Fri*

Squats 3 x 8 - 10 reps

Calf raises 3 x 8 - 10 reps

Leg extensions 3 x 8 - 10 reps

Hamstring curls 3 x 8 - 10 reps

Abs decline sit up crunches 3 x 25 reps

Do the basics right, eat well, sleep well and give the body good recovery time, you WILL grow... arms included


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## Eddias (Dec 21, 2015)

Dead lee said:


> I need to improve my biceps they really don't want to budge, I have short biceps and they are a weak point i just can't make grounds on, tried everything I can think of.


 i was struggling to gain any size on my arms, i found bent over rows, close grip pull ups really helped with biceps, and for triceps close grip bench press. bugger when you get a lagging body part for me its the teardrop that bugger just will not grow


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## Dead lee (Jul 4, 2010)

Eddias said:


> i was struggling to gain any size on my arms, i found bent over rows, close grip pull ups really helped with biceps, and for triceps close grip bench press. bugger when you get a lagging body part for me its the teardrop that bugger just will not grow


 I done barbell rows for years, close grip pull ups iv just started last month or two, there short biceps, they don't go down to where the forearm meets the bicep, there like an inch off it, they look ok side on but peak is s**t.

Tear drop similar looks ok but could be better, main size further up leg, long limbs maybe.


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## smallboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Natty Steve'o said:


> My upper lower split:
> 
> *Upper: Mon, Thurs*
> 
> ...


 wow many exercises in upper. how long rest between sets?


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## superdrol (Aug 9, 2012)

smallboy said:


> wow many exercises in upper. how long rest between sets?


 As long as you need to do the next set well! No point having 30 seconds rest if you need 2 mins to go again!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

smallboy said:


> wow many exercises in upper. how long rest between sets?


 I don't have a set time per se , I would say between 1 - 3 mins depending on the exercise and weight.... Because I train relatively heavy, I wait just long enough to catch my breath thus letting the muscle recover enough to handle the weight again for the required rep range. I find I respond best to the 8 -10 rep range lifting as heavy as possible. This allows me to perform the exercise almost to, if not to failure on my last set!


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> My upper lower split:
> 
> *Upper: Mon, Thurs*
> 
> ...


 what weight do you decline?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> My upper lower split:
> 
> *Upper: Mon, Thurs*
> 
> ...


 That's a rather push dominant routine - is there a particular reason for this?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> That's a rather *push dominant *routine - is there a particular reason for this?


 There are pull exercises in there for back, hams, lats, traps and arms. Its pretty even between the two .... It is working for me so far. they are pretty basic compound exercise.

What other exercises would you include for pull?

Shrugs, Curls, hams, rows, chins are all pull, that's 5 out of the 8 exercises you quoted me on !

Bench, shoulders and tri's are the other three which is push....!!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> what weight do you decline?


 Enough to stimulate growth.

It varies, depending which angle I hit first


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Enough to stimulate growth.
> 
> It varies, depending which angle I hit first


 if u decline first what u lifting


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> if u decline first what u lifting


 Why are you asking, you seem awfully interested in me ... you got a crush or something?

Well lets say its more than my incline and flat bench. My incline being my lighter of the 3 which is currently between 105 and 107.5kg for 3 sets of 8-10 reps.

What's your bench for sets of 8? incline, decline, flat??


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> There are pull exercises in there for back, hams, lats, traps and arms. Its pretty even between the two .... It is working for me so far. they are pretty basic compound exercise.
> 
> What other exercises would you include for pull?
> 
> ...


 So you don't do flat, decline and incline bench all in one session - rather, alternating between each one you do each workout?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> So you don't do flat, decline and incline bench all in one session - rather, alternating between each one you do each workout?


 Yes I do all 3 angles in one session mate. I just change up what I hit first. I'm currently hitting flat first at the moment followed by decline and finishing with the incline press. Prior to me changing I was doing decline, incline then flat to finish. I change it every 3-4 months depending on how things are going. I don't like to become stagnant.

My next change will be Incline first, flat, then decline.

PS: looking good in your new avi


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Natty Steve'o said:


> There are pull exercises in there for back, hams, lats, traps and arms. Its pretty even between the two .... It is working for me so far. they are pretty basic compound exercise.
> 
> What other exercises would you include for pull?
> 
> ...


 I was thinking more total sets than exercises but I stupidly missed the chin-ups which definitely makes it more balanced, and if you lean forward a bit doing the shrugs that would help make it more balanced too. (I only commented because from an apparently too quick glance I thought you were doing about twice as many push sets as pull, which might not be the best idea for a beginner who may copy what you'd posted. I must read betterer...)

FWIW other exercises I like are bent over dumbell rows with elbows in line with shoulders (for rear delts and upper back) and RDLs (but these don't fit so well in an ULUL programme). It's not mandatory to do the same number of sets of every exercise of course - I don't.

Do you feel your back is growing as well as your chest/front delts out of interest?

I found the following article by Dorian Yates on back development interesting FWIW, and might make you reconsider the wide grip you're using for chin-ups:

http://musculardevelopment.com/training/2905-my-guide-to-building-a-better-back-by-dorian-yates.html

(Not trying to tell you what to do here - just throwing some ideas out there as I'd already butted in!)


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## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Why are you asking, you seem awfully interested in me ... you got a crush or something?
> 
> Well lets say its more than my incline and flat bench. My incline being my lighter of the 3 which is currently between 105 and 107.5kg for 3 sets of 8-10 reps.
> 
> What's your bench for sets of 8? incline, decline, flat??


 avoided yet another question

why am I asking? Lol


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> I was thinking more total sets than exercises but I stupidly missed the chin-ups which definitely makes it more balanced, and if you lean forward a bit doing the shrugs that would help make it more balanced too. (I only commented because from an apparently too quick glance I thought you were doing about twice as many push sets as pull, which might not be the best idea for a beginner who may copy what you'd posted. I must read betterer...)
> 
> FWIW other exercises I like are bent over dumbell rows with elbows in line with shoulders (for rear delts and upper back) and RDLs (but these don't fit so well in an ULUL programme). It's not mandatory to do the same number of sets of every exercise of course - I don't.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the link mate.

My back is developing in line with the rest of my body with some good results. The wide grip pronate chins are hitting the smaller muscle groups of the back like the rhomboids and teres as elbows are flared doing this exercise. One arm dumbbell or close grip cable rows keeping the elbow tucked in parallel with the body which targets the lats thus hitting all back muscle groups in my routine with good effect.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Heavyassweights said:


> avoided yet another question
> 
> why am I asking? Lol


 Post up a pic of yourself and I will oblige.......... I can predict my next response ...Avoided yet another pic request!

On tues I benched my bodyweight plus 1/3rd after doing my flat bench first.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Natty Steve'o said:


> Yes I do all 3 angles in one session mate. I just change up what I hit first. I'm currently hitting flat first at the moment followed by decline and finishing with the incline press. Prior to me changing I was doing decline, incline then flat to finish. I change it every 3-4 months depending on how things are going. I don't like to become stagnant.
> 
> My next change will be Incline first, flat, then decline.
> 
> PS: looking good in your new avi


 F*ck, that's quite a bit of volume then! If you're handling it though then fair play, I know I couldn't, if I go beyond 7-8 hard upper body exercises I WILL puke :lol:

Cheers buddy, thought it was about time for me yearly avi update :lol: Tren tabs I'm on at the moment are stripping fat off me even though I'm in a 500-700 surplus


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## Glenn cruise (Jan 5, 2018)

ausmaz said:


> I think in general, MOST people will gain the majority of their arm size from a gain in overall muscular bodyweight....ie if you go from 175lb's to 190 at similar bf%, your arms will grow....
> 
> At some point though to maximize your results you will need to include direct arm work, you dont need a ton of exercises or sets but progressive overload still applies....
> 
> Ultimately the amount you will benefit will come down to genetics, ie if you have great arm genetics you may find your arms blow up with only a modest increase in body size, those on the other end of the spectrum will need a significant increase in body size to get modest improvements....good luck man!


 My pal lost 3 stone after a 6 months lay off he went from 13 stone down to 10 he still had his 18" arms . It' Not all about bodyweight


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

Glenn cruise said:


> My pal lost 3 stone after a 6 months lay off he went from 13 stone down to 10 he still had his 18" arms . It' Not all about bodyweight


 You've bumped a dead thread to reply to someone with something that's literally not in any way relevant to what he said. Well done mate


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## ausmaz (Jul 14, 2014)

I'mNotAPervert! said:


> You've bumped a dead thread to reply to someone with something that's literally not in any way relevant to what he said. Well done mate


 Ha! I just read this and thought.... a) i actually made the point if a person has great genetic potential for arms they will grow with a modest bw increase..... and B) i would LOVE to see 18" arms on a 10 stone man....


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

ausmaz said:


> Ha! I just read this and thought.... a) i actually made the point if a person has great genetic potential for arms they will grow with a modest bw increase..... and B) i would LOVE to see 18" arms on a 10 stone man....


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