# DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet for lean gains?



## FleXXL

Did anyone actually gave a try to bulking on the anabolic diet? I have read "The Anabolic Solution for Bodybuilders" and "The Anabolic Diet" by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale and his ideas seem to have a lot of sense but as we know, it doesn't always mean it works in practice.

From what I read I understand that to keep the 40-60% fat and 40-50% protein ratio I would need to lower down my protein intake. At the moment I'm having 300 grams of protein (40%) per day so I would need to have 450 grams of fat (60%), which altogether would be over 5 000 kcal (way too much). So to keep the ratio and have the same amount of calories as now (4 000 kcal) I would need to be having 240 grams of protein and 360 grams of fat. But the idea of lowering protein intake makes me worried  DiPasquale says that when the metabolism shifts to using fat as a fuel the protein isn't used as an energy source (which happens on a "traditional" diet) so as much protein isn't needed... but what do you think?

Generally I like the idea of the Anabolic Diet, not going over 10% body fat, tastier food and cheaper groceries - hey, bacon is cheaper than chicken! :thumb:


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## Ash1981

great question


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## FleXXL

ash1981 said:


> great question


 ...which remains unanswered :cursing:

Anyway, I did some research on the protein intake and ketosis. From what I read it doesn't matter how much protein will you have, you will still stay in keto and the "excessive" protein won't be stored as body fat.

Firstly I came across Q&A with Layne Norton - someone was saying that he consulted with a pro bodybuilder who thinks that more than 20% of protein at the keto diet can stop ketosis because body will turn anything above 20% protein into glucose. Norton replied:



> Your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis&#8230; about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 100g/day. If you aren't eating any carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis.
> 
> Source: http://fit-universe.com/layne-norton-faq-part-l.html


That made me wonder how much glucose body will still need while on ketosis. I found the answer on the blog of Michael R. Eades:



> Well, when the ketosis process is humming along nicely and the brain and other tissues have converted to ketones for fuel, the requirement for glucose drops to about 120-130 gm per day. If you keep your carbs below that at, say, 60 grams per day, you're liver will have to produce at least 60-70 grams of glucose to make up the deficit, so you will generate ketones that entire time.
> 
> Source: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/metabolism-and-ketosis/


So if body can create 100 grams of glucose (trough gluconeogenesis) that leaves 30 grams of glucose to get from food. I'm guessing that's why, as a rule of thumb, it's not allowed to have more than 30 grams of carbs on the Anabolic Diet.

I also found Lyle McDonald's article explaining that high protein intake simply can't make anynone fat.



> [...]while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil.[...] What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, it's a slow process and isn't complete.
> 
> Source: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html


I'll have a flick trough other discussion boards to get some opinions on bulking on the Anabolic Diet and I'll post it as well :whistling:


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## reza85

anabolic diet does work but the no pump work outs drive me mad. so now i do pwo carbs only.


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## bayman

Dtlv tried a keto bulk, with poor results. Keto is not a great state to be in for muscle building for various reasons.


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## FleXXL

Maybe Dtvl could share his experience? I would message him but I'm not a bronze member yet.

Majority of people on other boards love the anabolic diet or hate it, without actually giving it a try. Few people started but gave up very quickly after noticing weight loss and feeling constantly tired, which is suppose to happen before metabolism switches.

Chris Shugart wrote about his experience with the anabolic diet on "start-up", cutting and bulking phase. That's what he said about bulking:



> I really didn't want to go on the mass phase. I liked the increased definition in my abs that I got from the cutting phase. However, I decided to try it for a week just for the experience. You know what? I flunked out. Yep, I just couldn't consistently reach the required number of calories. I fell short by at least a thousand calories every day. By Friday, I should've gained at least two pounds. In reality, my weight remained the same. However, if I should decide to bulk up again, I think I have the bugs worked out.
> 
> But wait, let's examine what happened here. I ate like a pig - tons of yummy, fatty food - experienced zero cravings, had tons of energy, ate what I wanted on the weekend, and became more defined while getting stronger! In the words of a certain groovy British spy, "Yeah, baby!" Now, five weeks isn't long enough to see vast improvements in muscular size, but I did have several people say that my arms and chest looked bigger. Also, during the five weeks, my max dumbbell bench press and max curl went up a few pounds.
> 
> Source: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_mass/eat_like_a_man_part_ii_living_the_anabolic_diet


So no actual weight gain but some "visual" improvement... on the other hand author admits that he wasn't consistent with the calories.


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## bdcc

Charles Poliquin is a big advocate of Mauro's work and carb cycling (especially for those who have higher levels of body fat or are trying to cut).

He said as a general rule he thinks a carb up meal every 5th evening works better than a two day carb up every weekend. I have tried this approach and love it for recomping but do increase my carb intake when I am bulking as I find it hard to consume an adequate calorie intake.


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## Suprakill4

I would love to try this but enjoy carbs too much and would feel dead without them.


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## bayman

FleXXL said:


> Maybe Dtvl could share his experience? I would message him but I'm not a bronze member yet.
> 
> Majority of people on other boards love the anabolic diet or hate it, without actually giving it a try. Few people started but gave up very quickly after noticing weight loss and feeling constantly tired, which is suppose to happen before metabolism switches.
> 
> Chris Shugart wrote about his experience with the anabolic diet on "start-up", cutting and bulking phase. That's what he said about bulking:
> 
> So no actual weight gain but some "visual" improvement... on the other hand author admits that he wasn't consistent with the calories.


Chris Shugart is a shill and full of ****, I wouldn't put much substance into anything he says.


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## FleXXL

bayman said:


> Chris Shugart is a shill and full of ****, I wouldn't put much substance into anything he says.


Hard to find any other review which is longer than two sentences...

Anyway I think I'll give it a go, so far I came up with the following diet plan:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*Proteins/Carbohydrates/Fats*

*
*

*
1st. meal*

50 grams of Mild White Cheddar Cheese 12.5/0/17.2

2 Slices (60 grams) of Bacon 14/0/13

4 Scrambled Eggs 29.6/3.6/18

20 grams of Full Fat Butter 0/0/12

Nutrients: 56/3.6/60

Price: £0.90

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*2nd. meal*

200 grams of Beef Mince 43/2/37.8

2 Spoons of Olive Oil 0/0/20

100 grams of Tinned Tomatoes 1/4/0

Nutrients: 44/6/58

Price: £1.00

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*3rd. meal*

250 grams of Gluten Free Pork Sausages 46/0/60.5

Nutrients: 46/0/60.5

Price: £1.40

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*4th. meal*

200 grams of Beef Mince 43/2/37.8

2 Spoons of Walnut Oil 0/0/20

100 grams of Tinned Tomatoes 1/4/0

Nutrients: 44/6/58

Price: £1.00

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*5th. meal*

50 grams of Mild White Cheddar Cheese 12.5/0/17.2

2 Slices (60 grams) of Bacon 14/0/13

4 Scrambled Eggs 29.6/3.6/18

20 grams of Full Fat Butter 0/0/12

Nutrients: 56/3.6/60

Price: £0.90

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*6th. meal*

2 Spoon of Olive Oil 0/0/20

250 grams of mozzarella cheese 45/2.5/45

Nutrients: 45/2.5/60

Price: £1.20

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*Total Nutrients: 291/21.7 (+10 grams dietary fiber supplement)/356*

*
Total Price: £6.40 a day*

What do you think?


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## Threepwood

Just started day one of the anabolic diet, i thought i'd be feeling like **** as it's the first day without carbs. But to be honest i feel quite energetic although a slight headache. Also i feel i look forward to my meals more seeing as i get to eat things i love (cheese etc..)

How you getting on m8?


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## transformer23

Been on this diet for a month now with cardio everyday, starting to lean up real nice


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## FleXXL

Threepwood said:


> Just started day one of the anabolic diet, i thought i'd be feeling like **** as it's the first day without carbs. But to be honest i feel quite energetic although a slight headache. Also i feel i look forward to my meals more seeing as i get to eat things i love (cheese etc..)
> 
> How you getting on m8?


The same here mate, it's my second day and the energy levels are through the roof, I also feel more pumped.

I noticed that I don't feel full straight away after eating, I'm guessing it's because volume of the meals isn't that great even though there's plenty of calories.


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## methos

Looking at starting something new diet wise. Have glanced at this in the past but never read into it properly. I see you have mince in there a lot. Is that due to it being cheaper than chicken or just due to the higher level of fat? Main reason I ask is I've just bought 20kg of chicken breast lol


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## bdcc

I think there is a lot to be said for real world results vs paper results.

There are a lot of people who say the low carb diets are going to leave people with less energy but I work with many people who find their energy is better on low carb days.

I only eat portions of starch in the evenings or on non workout days because my training drive and energy levels plummet. I have not completed the anabolic diet in terms of carbing up on the weekends, I prefer to stick with the Poliquin protocol above.


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## bayman

Don't you mean Loliquin, the man's a shill and only interested in pimping unnecessary supplements.


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## bdcc

He sells supplements, he makes a fortune as well.

Making a generalisation like that and ignoring the number of olympic medallists he has coached is very narrow minded. He does sell supplements, courses and books but is also one of the most successful strength coaches in the world lol.


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## bayman

bdcc said:


> He sells supplements, he makes a fortune as well.
> 
> Making a generalisation like that and ignoring the number of olympic medallists he has coached is very narrow minded. He does sell supplements, courses and books but is also one of the most successful strength coaches in the world lol.


His earlier literature is pretty good, his recent stuff is bat**** crazy and he appears only interested in relieving people of their cash. Case of a man living on reputation.


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## bdcc

While your view on it voices the sentiment of a lot of his followers I have to respectfully disagree.

I have read things of his which few people would ever believe, yet see them in person and have to revoke my skepticism. For example he has increased the strength and speed of my bench press in 30 seconds using a dry point needling technique on accupressure points.

A friend of mine has had his overhead squat movement pattern flexibility significantly improve in the same space of time with similar methods performed by Charles.

Look at the number of olympic medallists and athletes he has trained. Even look at some of the coaches he has produced.

Saying he lives on reputation is very disrespectful and I can assume ignorant on your behalf because it implies he is not still putting in the work to reap the rewards he does. If you went on any of his higher level courses you would know this simply isn't the case. While his methods might not be to your liking he definitely isn't a man that lives on reputation rather than hard work. Last time I talked to him about his sleeping patterns he told a group of us he likes going to bed at 8pm and waking up at 4am because he gets more studying done in this time period. He also pays for consultations with people in different fields to leverage his learning i.e., experts in cardiovascular health, vitamin D, olympic lifting etc.

I am not planning to derail this thread so will leave it there. If you want to continue this discussion I will happily do so in another thread. It is nice when people back up their scientific statements with studies to support their theories in the same way it is nice not to make blanket statements about someone's training philosophy simply by reading some of his articles. The man has probably forgotten more about training, nutrition, supplementation (and business) than me or you know put together so should get a little bit more respect than being written off like that.

End rant.


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## Bish83

methos said:


> Looking at starting something new diet wise. Have glanced at this in the past but never read into it properly. I see you have mince in there a lot. Is that due to it being cheaper than chicken or just due to the higher level of fat? Main reason I ask is I've just bought 20kg of chicken breast lol


Google the anabolic diet you should find the pdf it explains everything but your fuel will be predominantly fatty acid, chicken is not entirely lean but eating the chicken breast without skin and attempt to make the body try and run on protein your feel a lot worse for it. Its not just olive oil you need to down try and get varied balance of fats in you such as coconut oil, lard, grass fed butter such as kerry gold or the NZ butter i forget the name too and dont forget your OMEGA 3's your need to take alot more than usual due to your excess omega 6 your be consuming, alternatively have fish.



FleXXL said:


> The same here mate, it's my second day and the energy levels are through the roof, I also feel more pumped.
> 
> I noticed that I don't feel full straight away after eating, I'm guessing it's because volume of the meals isn't that great even though there's plenty of calories.


With meat you dont have to eat as much in comparison to carbs to hit your cal requirements but also as you get further into the diet you may experience some intense food cravings as your body reluctantly converts to ketosis.



transformer23 said:


> Been on this diet for a month now with cardio everyday, starting to lean up real nice


That will be the water weight gone, meat is a mild diuretic.



Threepwood said:


> Just started day one of the anabolic diet, i thought i'd be feeling like **** as it's the first day without carbs. But to be honest i feel quite energetic although a slight headache. Also i feel i look forward to my meals more seeing as i get to eat things i love (cheese etc..)
> 
> How you getting on m8?


Headaches can be caused through dehydration or if you suffer from bleeding gums could be the immune system getting stronger killing the bacteria thats been feeding off your excess carb consumption. There could be other reasons.

Sausages, bacon, pepperoni is fine but alot of anabolic dieters and i think even poliquin even mention its not the best source and your do better on steak and eggs also working out your fat % 40 is the lowest and 70 the upper limit also pizza, cakes etc are fine on a carb up but for the same reason as the processed meats are not ideal however having a combination seem to help with the asthetic side i.e. pulling water into the muscle and creating a better pump.



bayman said:


> Dtlv tried a keto bulk, with poor results. Keto is not a great state to be in for muscle building for various reasons.


Dont forget your never truely fat adapted this isnt a keto diet the carb ups prevent this so the results should be alot better.

If anyones interested into fat adaption just miss a day or two eating or go wild on macademia nuts. Also the 4 weeks shift is an approximate you may need longer.

If i were to do it again id definitly introduce meat stock, fish and organ meat into my diet differing the ratio of raw to cooked foods along with dosing up on silly amounts of Vitamin C. Solely for the focus and ability to stay awake 18 hours without tiring i think was a winner for me.


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## FleXXL

Very informative but for a minute I thought that my eyes were bleeding


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## Bish83

I try, you know they have a funky green colour il use that next time lol


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## Threepwood

On my 3rd day and still going strong .. although i wanted to check something with ya'll .

My last few meals have consisted of :

Pork cooked in butter, broccoli with cheese melted on

Mince with onions, cheese, peppers

Chicken thigh with skin, salad, onions

Sausage & bacon

That look ok ?

Eating steak everyday is too expensive for me and unfortunately i don't like eggs  i know it sucks but i have tried to force myself but just cant do it


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## Hisoka

You got this diet all wrong...

First of all... Fat conatin 3 times as much energy then carbs/Protein...

What the diet says is... 60% of the daily energy from your food should be found in fats and 40 from protein...

it would rather means

That why the number of proteins in grams should be more then the number of grams from fatty acids 

I have done this Diet in 5 months so far and i gained more then 7kg of lean muscle mass without gaining any sorts of fat on my body... And yes.. without any use of Anabolic Steroids.. Just with a little help of GHRP/modGRF 

And soon some HGH  :.. going to be fun


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## Oliverduke

any success bulking on AD?


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