# Do you row from the floor?



## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Watching some people in the gym do rows is painful sometimes, they just kind of bob up and down, not resting the weight on the ground after each rep. For those that do standard row's (not the angled, bent over Yates style rows) do you let the bar go dead, or leave some distance between the floor & plates?


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

I never let the bar rest on the ground


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Never let the bar go dead... they are not dead lifts... should keep tension in the muscles...


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Where did you pick up your row form mate?

I've always done them like this, benefits are better grip, nice strong 'deep' contraction on every rep.. not just the first couple.

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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

edit

I have personally never seen anybody let the weight rest on the floor..

Had a little browse then and see there is a way to perform them using the teqnique you said, but surley its better to keep the muscle under constant tension for hypertrophy?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

i would never go and to ground on bent rows! lol who does?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

for bodybuilding perposes you should keep tension on the muscle to cause max stress on the muscle


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Heineken said:


> Where did you pick up your row form mate?
> 
> I've always done them like this, benefits are better grip, nice strong 'deep' contraction on every rep.. not just the first couple.


the deep contraction does not come from the stretch to the floor but the pull into the chest... (or lower down)... if you take the tension off the muscle then its losing some of the work...

The form I would use in that exercise I got from years of experience and many very good and able trainers...


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

That exercise looks like **** to me.

Do heavy rows Yates style :thumb:


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Yeah I'm not a bb, perhaps I should have made that clarification at the start lol.


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Greyphantom said:


> the deep contraction does not come from the stretch to the floor but the pull into the chest... (or lower down)... if you take the tension off the muscle then its losing some of the work...
> 
> The form I would use in that exercise I got from years of experience and many very good and able trainers...


Deep contraction would be the pull to the stomach yeah, but using the 'constant tension' method does nothing for me but stress my lower back out, I get a lot more out of the above method. I train for power and speed now rather than size though.. every rep is a good one that's felt, rather than the feeling I'm not pulling high enough with Yates style rows.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Heineken said:


> Yeah I'm not a bb, perhaps I should have made that clarification at the start lol.


what the hell are you then? powerlifter, strong man, tennis player?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Ping Pong professional.


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

Heineken said:


> Where did you pick up your row form mate?
> 
> I've always done them like this, benefits are better grip, nice strong 'deep' contraction on every rep.. not just the first couple.


Don't know if you we're being sarcastic with the first question, but Yates & Arnold for instance..

You would get a better stretch and better grip if you never rested the weight after each rep..


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Heineken said:


> Ping Pong professional.


then i dnt think it maters


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Heineken said:


> Deep contraction would be the pull to the stomach yeah, but using the 'constant tension' method does nothing for me but stress my lower back out, I get a lot more out of the above method. I train for power and speed now rather than size though.. every rep is a good one that's felt, rather than the feeling I'm not pulling high enough with Yates style rows.


perhaps then you are not standing with your hips back far enough to counter balance the weight?? but if you feel it nicely in the inner upper back then more power to you... (ie keep going mate and lift hard!)



Heineken said:


> Ping Pong professional.


 :thumb: :thumb :


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

TOBE said:


> Don't know if you we're being sarcastic with the first question, but Yates & Arnold for instance..
> 
> You would get a better contraction and better grip if you never rested the weight after each rep..


I don't understand, why would my question be a sarcastic one?

The technique I mentioned is more aimed at developing power and strength as opposed to hypertrophy IMO


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

I imagine this would aggravate my lower back actually. Perhaps this is why you have a problem?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Greyphantom said:


> perhaps then you are not standing with your hips back far enough to counter balance the weight?? but if you feel it nicely in the inner upper back then more power to you... (ie keep going mate and lift hard!)
> 
> :thumb: :thumb :


Yeah could be right mate, I'll see how it goes. Cheers!



LittleChris said:


> I imagine this would aggravate my lower back actually. Perhaps this is why you have a problem?


Come again? I said I experience problems from the constant tension lol.. this method has no cimplications.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

i still would not go to ground like chris said its a bit much on your lower back? what type of weight do you lift?


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

Heineken said:


> I don't understand, why would my question be a sarcastic one?
> 
> The technique I mentioned is more aimed at developing power and strength as opposed to hypertrophy IMO


Because like I said, I have never witnessed anyone ever letting the bar touch the floor and you was questioning the form of probably the most common way to perform a bent over row..

Anyway, yeah, I suppose for developing power you may be right, but we wasn't to know that's what you was talking about was we.. :whistling:


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## LittleChris (Jan 17, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> i still would not go to ground like chris said its a bit much on your lower back? what type of weight do you lift?


He only uses the bar- gets more of stretch when resting it on the ground for 10seconds between reps :thumb: :beer:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

TOBE said:


> Because like I said, I have never witnessed anyone ever letting the bar touch the floor and you was questioning the form of probably the most common way to perform a bent over row..
> 
> Anyway, yeah, I suppose for developing power you may be right, but we wasn't to know that's what you was talking about was we.. :whistling:


even so it aint a dead lift so i cant see the point in going to ground?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

How are you fathoming that resting the weight after each rep would place *more* stress on the lower back, than standing there with it stressed constantly for about 30 seconds +?

Weight on the bar is irrelevant really


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

Heineken said:


> How are you fathoming that resting the weight after each rep would place *more* stress on the lower back, than standing there with it stressed for about 30 seconds +?
> 
> Weight on the bar is irrelevant really


Maybe due to leverage?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Care to elaborate?


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

LittleChris said:


> He only uses the bar- gets more of stretch when resting it on the ground for 10seconds between reps :thumb: :beer:


sounds about right buddy lol i still would like to know the reason behind going to ground lol wtf are the benefits over the proper way?


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Heineken said:


> I don't understand, why would my question be a sarcastic one?
> 
> The technique I mentioned is more aimed at developing power and strength as opposed to hypertrophy IMO


tbh mate if you are interested in developing power and strength then deadlifts would be better... rows are really for developing the musculature of the upper middle back...


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

TOBE said:


> Maybe due to leverage?


well when you start a bent row the most tention on the lower back will come from the 1st rep if you are resting the w8 you are doing a whole set of 1st reps. the w8 is relevent as if you row 10k do as you will you aint gona do ur back if you lift 190k this will make a bit more diffrence on the need for good form!


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Greyphantom said:


> tbh mate if you are interested in developing power and strength then *deadlifts would be better*... rows are really for developing the musculature of the upper middle back...


right! what is the point in a power lifter doing bent rows?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> sounds about right buddy lol i still would like to know the reason behind going to ground lol wtf are the benefits over the proper way?


Like I said a few posts back, better contraction? Better for my needs i.e power? By 'proper' way I assume you are referring to the bb style row, when I've already stated I don't train for that purpose, but for sport performance lol. So.. what's not to understand?



Greyphantom said:


> tbh mate if you are interested in developing power and strength then deadlifts would be better... rows are really for developing the musculature of the upper middle back...


I do a mixture of deads, power cleans, benching as well chap don't get me wrong.


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

Heineken said:


> Care to elaborate?


You have more support when your back isn't bent as far over as it would need to be to place the bar back on the floor..


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Heineken said:


> Like I said a few posts back, *better contraction*? Better for my needs i.e power? By 'proper' way I assume you are referring to the bb style row, when I've already stated I don't train for that purpose, but for sport performance lol. So.. what's not to understand? QUOTE]
> 
> *lol but it isnt! contraction is best at the top of the move! stretch maybe but this will not give a better stretch ether lol constant tension will! lol.*
> 
> every thing you have said in this post! lol


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## Sangsom (Apr 8, 2009)

i didnt think anyone ever did them like that

nope ive never hit the floor until finished


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> Maybe you just don't have the mental capacity to understand some members on this board don't train for bodybuilding, even though I've said it.. three times now lol.
> 
> Contraction, the shortening or lengthening of a muscle right? So the pull to the abs is the action of your lats etc 'squeezing' if you will, a stretch has nothing to do with developing power does it? I have never mentioned looking for a stretch?


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## Chalet Fresh (Aug 18, 2009)

rows where you rest it on floor between reps are what I call Pendlay rows. Good exercise i really like it, I'm not a bodybuilder though so don't know if people would get on better with that or normal BOR

EDIT:It definetly has its place for strength stuff though IMO, takes stretch reflex out of equation.


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

Finally lol, thank you!


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## freddee (Mar 2, 2009)

I do my bent over row in the squat area (if there is no one waiting to use it) and put the rest bars on the lowest rung pull into the belly contract and slowly lower but never rest the bar until I'm finished.


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## Greyphantom (Oct 23, 2003)

Heineken said:


> Like I said a few posts back, better contraction? Better for my needs i.e power? By 'proper' way I assume you are referring to the *bb style row*, when I've already stated I don't train for that purpose, but for sport performance lol. So.. what's not to understand?
> 
> I do a mixture of deads, power cleans, benching as well chap don't get me wrong.


I think you might be getting the wrong end of the stick with the idea of "bbing" rows vs another sort of row... in fact imho the exercise is not and should not be restricted to a type of training, its the program that counts...



Heineken said:


> Maybe you just don't have the mental capacity to understand some members on this board don't train for bodybuilding, even though I've said it.. three times now lol.
> 
> Contraction, the shortening or lengthening of a muscle right? So the pull to the abs is the action of your lats etc 'squeezing' if you will, a stretch has nothing to do with developing power does it? I have never mentioned looking for a stretch?


Contraction is the shortening of the muscle... the lengthening is not a contraction its stretching... you have mentioned you were looking for a "nice strong contraction" and this can be attained by the positive part of the movement not the negative (stretching) part... therefore resting the bar is perhaps not the best for attaining the contraction...


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

Heineken said:


> *Watching some people in the gym do rows is **painful** sometimes, they just kind of bob up and down, not resting the weight on the ground after each rep. *





Heineken said:


> *Maybe you just don't have the mental capacity to understand some members on this board don't train for bodybuilding, even though I've said it.. three times now lol. *


Maybe they don't train for strength..


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Heineken said:


> i have also said it dont matter power or size! the better the stretch the better the contraction! end of
> 
> *lol of corse it does lol*


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## StJocKIII (Dec 10, 2008)

I used to do Pendlay rows, feels a lot different to me. I couldn't feel it in my lower back half as much either, which might benefit you, you had problems with your back right?

I know they are used on rippetoes so i would assume they are better for strength

didnt read the thread, this has probably been said:thumbup1:


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

Chalet Fresh said:


> rows where you rest it on floor between reps are what I call Pendlay rows. Good exercise i really like it, I'm not a bodybuilder though so don't know if people would get on better with that or normal BOR
> 
> EDIT:It definetly has its place for strength stuff though IMO, takes stretch reflex out of equation.


but i dont get why as a powerlifter you need to do them if in a contest you will only do bench press squats and deadlift?


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## Heineken (Feb 6, 2009)

A good pull to the abs with a slight pause and a slow eccentric phase, eventually ending up dead on the floor works better for me, I can concentrate on every rep, get more out of each one rather than do one or two decent ones with the other methods.

If I can develop more power on each rep (which is what I'm going for?) that's what I'll aim for, and pendlays allow this. That's all I'm saying, this thread is making my head hurt lol.


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## big_jim_87 (Jul 9, 2009)

yep do what you want lol i train how i train and you train how you train. im a bodybuilder but i go heavy! i get up to 180-190k on a bent row not the best of form lol but it works for me. lol i dnt give a sh1t what you do lol


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## TOBE (Mar 9, 2008)

Heineken said:


> A good pull to the abs with a slight pause and a slow eccentric phase, eventually ending up dead on the floor works better for me, *I can concentrate on every rep, get more out of each one rather than do one or two decent ones with the other methods. *
> 
> If I can develop more power on each rep (which is what I'm going for?) that's what I'll aim for, and pendlays allow this. That's all I'm saying, this thread is making my head hurt lol.


The thing is mate is if your only getting 1 or 2 decent reps out of, lets say 8 in total, then you need to reassess your form no matter what exercise your doing..


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## Chalet Fresh (Aug 18, 2009)

big_jim_87 said:


> but i dont get why as a powerlifter you need to do them if in a contest you will only do bench press squats and deadlift?


I'm not a powerlifter though, so exercises where you can get functional strength are great.

For powerlifters though, good quality assistence work should still be done in off season, when you're building up for a show you would want a good solid base of strength all round beforehand.

Are you trying to say powerlifters should only train squat bench and deadlifts?


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## aqs (Oct 12, 2004)

big_jim_87 said:


> then i dnt think it maters


lol :thumb:


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## defdaz (Nov 11, 2007)

How the hell do you row and put the bar down every rep? The bar should be nowhere near the floor. If you can get the bar on the floor at the bottom of each rep then you're bent over far too far imho.

Rows for upper back thickness (body at a higher angle than 45 degrees), deads for more general back work. Why make both exercises do the same thing??


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