# Dave Crosland diagnosed with heart failure.



## 66983 (May 30, 2016)




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## TURBS (Oct 21, 2013)

What a surprise :whistling:


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## Ares (Dec 3, 2015)

What the f**k are those headphones, looks like he's having his bonce fried Green Mile-style in that thumbnail!


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

He's like a weaker, more unhealthy version of a professional strong man.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

dave always been a decent guy whenever ive spoke to him directly and obviously puts out tons of information for free on youtube and whether people like him or not he did manage to put a s**t load of muscle mass on albeit with a lot of fat he is still / was carrying far more muscle than 99% of those that slate him

that said he needs to sort himself out
his kidneys have been f**ked for a long time, he had that horrendous outbreak of acne where he turned into ben off the fantastic 4 and now hes got a dicky ticker

time to hop on a keto diet (best suited for those that lack will power to control their appetite) and start smashing out daily cardio and forget about his muscle mass and focus on getting healthy


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

What a numpty... Guy with heart trouble caused by taking gear is taking gear (TRT) and states he will train unassisted from now on.... ON trt :huh: , with TRT you are being assisted... The poor looking sack of s**t is 2 years my junior and looks 15 years my senior.

Thanks for posting @Sparkey... My life choice is natty and it is the only sensible option for people who would like a long and active life. I feel great, Big strong and look good. I easily do 6, 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag for cardio with 1 min rest between rounds without blowing through my arse.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What a numpty... Guy with heart trouble caused by taking gear is taking gear (TRT) and states he will train unassisted from now on.... ON trt :huh: , with TRT you are being assisted... The poor looking sack of s**t is 2 years my junior and looks 15 years my senior.
> 
> Thanks for posting @Sparkey... My life choice is natty and it is the only sensible option for people who would like a long and active life. I feel great, Big strong and look good. I easily do 6, 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag for cardio with 1 min rest between rounds without blowing through my arse.


 I'd preffer 40 odd years as a lion than 70 odd as a sheep.


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What a numpty... Guy with heart trouble caused by taking gear is taking gear (TRT) and states he will train unassisted from now on.... ON trt :huh: , with TRT you are being assisted... The poor looking sack of s**t is 2 years my junior and looks 15 years my senior.
> 
> Thanks for posting @Sparkey... My life choice is natty and it is the only sensible option for people who would like a long and active life. I feel great, Big strong and look good. I easily do 6, 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag for cardio with 1 min rest between rounds without blowing through my arse.


 TRT will have very little negative effect,far healthier than crashing I'd say.

Daves been on gear that long it's unlikely he'd ever recover at his age.TRT would probably have been needed for life, heart problems or not.

For what it's worth I hope he's alright. I knew of him when he ran the doors in Carlisle and elsewhere and he was a well liked respected guy.


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## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> I'd preffer 40 odd years as a lion than 70 odd as a sheep.


 Unfortunately you'll have to settle with 50 years as a womble. Life's not fair bro.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What a numpty... Guy with heart trouble caused by taking gear is taking gear (TRT) and states he will train unassisted from now on.... ON trt :huh: , with TRT you are being assisted.


 he needs TRT though, he's hypogonadal due to his gear use

he'd be less healthy to take nothing

most men natural or not will develop hypogonadism at some point in their life and require 'assistance'

refusing it is like battling through bacterial pneumonia without the 'assistance' of antibiotics


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> I'd preffer 40 odd years as a lion than 70 odd as a sheep.


 How old are you matt...? I recon in ya 30s


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> How old are you matt...? I recon in ya 30s


 32 bro


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What a numpty... Guy with heart trouble caused by taking gear is taking gear (TRT) and states he will train unassisted from now on.... ON trt :huh: , with TRT you are being assisted... The poor looking sack of s**t is 2 years my junior and looks 15 years my senior.
> 
> Thanks for posting @Sparkey... My life choice is natty and it is the only sensible option for people who would like a long and active life. I feel great, Big strong and look good. I easily do 6, 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag for cardio with 1 min rest between rounds without blowing through my arse.


 Chances are, even after years of natty lifting you will probably still have an enlarged L.V bud.

It's just a waiting game for the reaper to come get us all :thumb


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

EpicSquats said:


> Unfortunately you'll have to settle with 50 years as a womble. Life's not fair bro.


 And you get 60 odd as a hench mofo!!! Your right it ain't fair man!


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## 66983 (May 30, 2016)

Just gonna say 140 for reps, just to be the first in this thread.

:lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Sparkey said:


> Just gonna say 140 for reps, just to be the first in this thread.
> 
> :lol:


 And I doubt you'll be the last...ive missed this...


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## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

Sparkey said:


> Just gonna say 140 for reps, just to be the first in this thread.
> 
> :lol:


 Don't forget get 'the sets' reps an sets :lol:


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

D 4 Damage said:


> Don't forget get 'the sets' reps an sets :lol:


 No natty can bench 140kg for reps and sets mate it's impossible I believe.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

swole troll said:


> he needs TRT though, he's hypogonadal due to his gear use
> 
> he'd be less healthy to take nothing
> 
> ...


 He's f**ked himself up through taking AAS he has f**ked up his natural hormone production, his endocrine system is shot. IMO TRT can only give you so much back. There is no replacement to living healthy and lifting big to keep them hormone levels up... The body adapts to what it is subjected to. If its worked hard regularly then the hormones needed to create and sustain the muscle mass to cope with these stresses are produced. We are designed to adapt and survive to meet the demands life throws at us.

If you inject/replace these systems for prolonged periods of time the body shuts down these productions and you're living on borrowed time. My body has adapted to my work load and naturally sustains my current size and shape through my natural hormone production. This is because I consistently week in week out stress the body making these production levels a requirement for my everyday life. the body strives for homeostasis so on the flip side if I sat on my arse done no exercise and ate s**t all day my test levels would reflect this they would fall through the floor...

This is how I see it without any medical bullshit to back it up... Well It works for me..


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> He's f**ked himself up through taking AAS he has f**ked up his natural hormone production, his endocrine system is shot. IMO TRT can only give you so much back. There is no replacement to living healthy and lifting big to keep them hormone levels up... The body adapts to what it is subjected to. If its worked hard regularly then the hormones needed to create and sustain the muscle mass to cope with these stresses are produced. We are designed to adapt and survive to meet the demands life throws at us.
> 
> If you inject/replace these systems for prolonged periods of time the body shuts down these productions and you're living on borrowed time. My body has adapted to my work load and naturally sustains my current size and shape through my natural hormone production. This is because I consistently week in week out stress the body making these production levels a requirement for my everyday life. the body strives for homeostasis so on the flip side if I sat on my arse done no exercise and ate s**t all day my test levels would reflect this they would fall through the floor...
> 
> This is how I see it without any medical bullshit to back it up... Well It works for me..


 Can't bench 170kg for reps tho can you tho so...


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Sparkey said:


> Chances are, even after years of natty lifting you will probably still have an enlarged L.V bud.
> 
> It's just a waiting game for the reaper to come get us all :thumb


 I have a massive heart mate


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Can't bench 170kg for reps tho can you tho so...


 Yeah probably could knock a few reps out at 170


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The-Real-Deal said:


> He's f**ked himself up through taking AAS he has f**ked up his natural hormone production, his endocrine system is shot. IMO TRT can only give you so much back. There is no replacement to living healthy and lifting big to keep them hormone levels up... The body adapts to what it is subjected to. If its worked hard regularly then the hormones needed to create and sustain the muscle mass to cope with these stresses are produced. We are designed to adapt and survive to meet the demands life throws at us.
> 
> If you inject/replace these systems for prolonged periods of time the body shuts down these productions and you're living on borrowed time. My body has adapted to my work load and naturally sustains my current size and shape through my natural hormone production. This is because I consistently week in week out stress the body making these production levels a requirement for my everyday life. the body strives for homeostasis so on the flip side if I sat on my arse done no exercise and ate s**t all day my test levels would reflect this they would fall through the floor...
> 
> This is how I see it without any medical bullshit to back it up... Well It works for me..


 Are you trying to say you think your weight training will help prevent your natural testosterone levels decreasing with age? I've never heard anything to suggest this is the case sadly.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> No natty can bench 140kg for reps and sets mate it's impossible I believe.


 I'm living proof you can mate... Otherwise you're calling me a liar...


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## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> No natty can bench 140kg for reps and sets mate it's impossible I believe.


 Dunno mate, someone's got to be the 0.1% of the population that's better than Devil, could be this dude....


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Are you trying to say you think your weight training will help prevent your natural testosterone levels decreasing with age? I've never heard anything to suggest this is the case sadly.


 Pretty much yes, it will still tail off through time but I firmly believe the activity of resistance training and heavy workload can IMHO slow the process. at 48 I don't think I'm doing to badly both for size condition and high sex drive.


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## MR RIGSBY (Jun 12, 2007)

Ultrasonic said:


> Are you trying to say you think your weight training will help prevent your natural testosterone levels decreasing with age? I've never heard anything to suggest this is the case sadly.


 Does exercise/ healthy living in general not help stave off falling testosterone levels? For some reason I thought this was the case. I know lifting weights increases t levels for a short period but not sure if it helps long term like Steve does.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Does exercise/ healthy living in general not help stave off falling testosterone levels? For some reason I thought this was the case.


 It makes perfect sense to me


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I'm living proof you can mate... Otherwise you're calling me a liar...


 Not calling you a liar mate just saying I've never seen with my own eyes on video or I real life a nattie bench 140kg for reps.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> I'd preffer 40 odd years as a lion than 70 odd as a sheep.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Pretty much yes, it will still tail off through time but I firmly believe the activity of resistance training and heavy workload can IMHO slow the process. at 48 I don't think I'm doing to badly both for size condition and high sex drive.


 I think that's correct someone that doesn't train and sits on there arse all day test levels would drop more so than compared to someone thats active and lifts.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> And I doubt you'll be the last...ive missed this...


 This is what happens when I go quiet on the site, it all goes a bit dull...


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Does exercise/ healthy living in general not help stave off falling testosterone levels? For some reason I thought this was the case.


 Not getting fat certainly helps. Beyond that I'm not sure to be honest. It's not something I've looked into.

I do think the idea of weight training causing the body to need to produce more test to maintain it is nonsense though.


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What a numpty... Guy with heart trouble caused by taking gear is taking gear (TRT) and states he will train unassisted from now on.... ON trt :huh: , with TRT you are being assisted... The poor looking sack of s**t is 2 years my junior and looks 15 years my senior.
> 
> Thanks for posting @Sparkey... My life choice is natty and it is the only sensible option for people who would like a long and active life. I feel great, Big strong and look good. I easily do 6, 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag for cardio with 1 min rest between rounds without blowing through my arse.


 I haven't watched the video yet, but if he is doing an actual TRT dosage and not a "cruise", then it's just going to be a replacement dose with little to no benefit over someone who already has in-range natural testosterone levels. Considering how much he's probably f**ked up his own testosterone function, and considering how low T is linked to all manner of health problems in itself, I'd say he's doing himself a massive favour for his own well-being and being very sensible in sticking to TRT doses rather than either coming off completely with no sex hormone function, or continuing to abuse the drugs.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> I think that's correct someone that doesn't train and sits on there arse all day test levels would drop more so than compared to someone thats active and lifts.


 Got any recent-ish videos Matt, a one arm dumbbell preacher curl for example? I did ask @Frandeman to post one up.. when he posted his imaginary 19s but he don't want to... between you and me I think it would make him look small so he wont post.  A 22kg DB will do for a starter mate, for sets n reps of course... :lol:


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Ultrasonic said:


> Not getting fat certainly helps. Beyond that I'm not sure to be honest. It's not something I've looked into.
> 
> I do think the idea of weight training causing the body to need to produce more test to maintain it is nonsense though.


 This is why you are small


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

nWo said:


> I haven't watched the video yet, but if he is doing an actual TRT dosage and not a "cruise", then it's just going to be a replacement dose with little to no benefit over someone who already has in-range natural testosterone levels. Considering how much he's probably f**ked up his own testosterone function, and considering how low T is linked to all manner of health problems in itself, I'd say he's doing himself a massive favour for his own well-being and being very sensible in sticking to TRT doses rather than either coming off completely with no sex hormone function, or continuing to abuse the drugs.


 I seriously wish the guy well, lets hope he gets back within the natural range and his health improves.


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Got any recent-ish videos Matt, a one arm dumbbell preacher curl for example? I did ask @Frandeman to post one up.. when he posted his imaginary 19s but he don't want to... between you and me I think it would make him look small so he wont post.  A 22kg DB will do for a starter mate, for sets n reps of course... :lol:


 No videos, Here's recent pic, tbh mate and I'm not giving it the biggun I could preacher curl a bit more than that, I can concentration curl 28s / 30s.

I've moved house and joined a new gym, proper good old school bodybuilding gym with everything man, should give me a good push, especially back and legs, it's got 3 different calf machines, so don't want to look a nob asking people to video my lifts just yet, I'll have to on my pb benches of course.


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

MR RIGSBY said:


> Does exercise/ healthy living in general not help stave off falling testosterone levels? For some reason I thought this was the case. I know lifting weights increases t levels for a short period but not sure if it helps long term like Steve does.


 there is transient fluctuations of test and GH from heavy lifting as you say but long term hypogonadism will be slowed at best

my old man stayed healthy, never touched gear, did marathon running all through his 30s and lifted weights since his 20s and continues to do both to this day and still got offered TRT by his GP a few years back in his mid 60s

if anything a healthy lifestyle will make it so that you live longer and are more likely to run into hypogonadism as its generally an age related condition 
obviously most of us on here have f**ked up our HPTA's ourselves but fact of the matter is TRT is healthier than bottomed out test levels hence it is *REPLACEMENT* therapy


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The-Real-Deal said:


> This is why you are small


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## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

nWo said:


> I haven't watched the video yet, but if he is doing an actual TRT dosage and not a "cruise", then it's just going to be a replacement dose with little to no benefit over someone who already has in-range natural testosterone levels. Considering how much he's probably f**ked up his own testosterone function, and considering how low T is linked to all manner of health problems in itself, I'd say he's doing himself a massive favour for his own well-being and being very sensible in sticking to TRT doses rather than either coming off completely with no sex hormone function, or continuing to abuse the drugs.


 hes getting it done privately but he had to send off his blood work to be approved

similar to what a mate of mine did and think he ended up on 100mg sust per week when all was said and done


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Matt6210 said:


> View attachment 166395


 Have you written to ask Santa for a phone with a better camera yet?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Ultrasonic said:


> Have you written to ask Santa for a phone with a better camera yet?


 its I phone 8, just zoomed in a little.


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## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Pretty much yes, it will still tail off through time but I firmly believe the activity of resistance training and heavy workload can IMHO slow the process. at 48 I don't think I'm doing to badly both for size condition and high sex drive.


 More than likely your hormone levels are at a decent range regardless of activity. Sadly for a lot that isn't the case.


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## superpube (Feb 18, 2015)

Matt6210 said:


> its I phone 8, just zoomed in a little.


 Why zoomed in? Are you that small?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

superpube said:


> Why zoomed in? Are you that small?


 something like that kid


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## gymaddict1986 (Feb 27, 2011)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I'm living proof you can mate... Otherwise you're calling me a liar...


 I have 0 doubts it's possible. I have known a few natruals to bench 3 plates. Very consistent with training and diet tho . Obviously doesn't happen over night but achievable. Negativity doesbt help .if you think you can't then you won't I believe .


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## Frank bull (Dec 20, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> He's f**ked himself up through taking AAS he has f**ked up his natural hormone production, his endocrine system is shot. IMO TRT can only give you so much back. There is no replacement to living healthy and lifting big to keep them hormone levels up... The body adapts to what it is subjected to. If its worked hard regularly then the hormones needed to create and sustain the muscle mass to cope with these stresses are produced. We are designed to adapt and survive to meet the demands life throws at us.
> 
> If you inject/replace these systems for prolonged periods of time the body shuts down these productions and you're living on borrowed time. My body has adapted to my work load and naturally sustains my current size and shape through my natural hormone production. This is because I consistently week in week out stress the body making these production levels a requirement for my everyday life. the body strives for homeostasis so on the flip side if I sat on my arse done no exercise and ate s**t all day my test levels would reflect this they would fall through the floor...
> 
> This is how I see it without any medical bullshit to back it up... Well It works for me..


 Dare say there's people out there that have never touched gear who are in the same boat as Dave, it's just the luck of the draw sometimes, I'm not saying his problems weren't caused by gear maybe it's genetic who knows , I never met or spoke to the fella but he helps a lot of people with his YouTube channel, I wish him well.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frank bull said:


> Dare say there's people out there that have never touched gear who are in the same boat as Dave, it's just the luck of the draw sometimes, I'm not saying his problems weren't caused by gear maybe it's genetic who knows , I never met or spoke to the fella but he helps a lot of people with his YouTube channel, I wish him well.


 He himself states its through his drug use in the video.


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> No videos, Here's recent pic, tbh mate and I'm not giving it the biggun I could preacher curl a bit more than that, I can concentration curl 28s / 30s.
> 
> I've moved house and joined a new gym, proper good old school bodybuilding gym with everything man, should give me a good push, especially back and legs, it's got 3 different calf machines, so don't want to look a nob asking people to video my lifts just yet, I'll have to on my pb benches of course.
> 
> View attachment 166395


 What weight are you in that pic mate, looking big-ish and like you train in that one :thumbup1:


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

So Fatso Dave has heart disease, cry me a river who gives a fck ?


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> What weight are you in that pic mate, looking big-ish and like you train in that one :thumbup1:


 that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me bro, 16 stone.


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## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

vetran said:


> So Fatso Dave has heart disease, cry me a river who gives a fck ?


 Strong Vet, you and him got history? Did he cheat on you or something?


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## Simon90 (Oct 28, 2017)

Matt6210 said:


> No videos, Here's recent pic, tbh mate and I'm not giving it the biggun I could preacher curl a bit more than that, I can concentration curl 28s / 30s.
> 
> I've moved house and joined a new gym, proper good old school bodybuilding gym with everything man, should give me a good push, especially back and legs, it's got 3 different calf machines, so don't want to look a nob asking people to video my lifts just yet, I'll have to on my pb benches of course.
> 
> View attachment 166395


 Looking massive mate


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

D 4 Damage said:


> Strong Vet, you and him got history? Did he cheat on you or something?


 Yes he stole all my pork crackling
View attachment P1030703.JPG


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

vetran said:


> Yes he stole all my pork crackling
> View attachment 116899


 that was 3 years ago mate.... you got to let it go.


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## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Sparkey said:


> It's just a waiting game for the reaper to come get us all :thumb


 Hence start in your 50s


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## Kazza61 (Jun 14, 2008)

Couple of years ago Dave posted a video on here and his breathing was terrible. I told him to get and get checked out as I was genuinely worried about him. He replied telling just how perfect his BP and bloods were....

I'm looking forward to downloading his new movie "Under Destruction".


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me bro, 16 stone.


 Look bigger than 16 mate

Now don't go all mushy on me. I tell it how it is... looking big there mate.

I prefer video because there no lights or filters to be messed about with. keeps it real, I've seen some of your videos and you look similar in them too... good work :thumbup1:


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## jjtreml (Dec 13, 2016)

vetran said:


> So Fatso Dave has heart disease, cry me a river who gives a fck ?


 C'mon man. Ffs


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## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

jjtreml said:


> C'mon man. Ffs


 Yes uncalled for , I feel a bit of a tw*t now


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## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

vetran said:


> Yes he stole all my pork crackling
> View attachment 116899


 Tastey as it was didn't do his heart any good


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## Old n fat (Feb 1, 2014)

I can't watch his videos , the constant "errm" followed with a gasp for air , is as irritating as fingers down a black board . I appempted to watch a few videos where he discusses the profile of a steroid and he is literally reading if off a google print out , very embarrassing.


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## simonboyle (Aug 5, 2013)

In other news, water is wet.

There's also sand at the beach.

Anyone even slightly surprised?


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## monkeybiker (Jul 21, 2010)

A blind man could see this coming.


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## Frank bull (Dec 20, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> He himself states its through his drug use in the video.


 I didn't watch the vid but it's probably half and half , drugs and the food he's shovelled to get so big , let's face it it's not all muscle.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Matt6210 said:


> its I phone 8, just zoomed in a little.


 Next time stand closer rather than zooming in... I'm still impressed you got something that bad out of an iPhone though!

(This might be obvious but zooming in on phones is the same as zooming in on a photo that has already been taken and you're looking at on a PC. As in you're just stretching part of the image to make it look bigger, rather than as on a proper camera where you have a lens that can move to zoom in whilst preserving image quality.)

Propping the phone up and using the timer function rather than relying on a mirror would work even better but pretty much no-one here seems to realise this  .


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## 75013 (Feb 22, 2017)

nWo said:


> I haven't watched the video yet, but if he is doing an actual TRT dosage and not a "cruise", then it's just going to be a replacement dose with little to no benefit over someone who already has in-range natural testosterone levels. Considering how much he's probably f**ked up his own testosterone function, and considering how low T is linked to all manner of health problems in itself, I'd say he's doing himself a massive favour for his own well-being and being very sensible in sticking to TRT doses rather than either coming off completely with no sex hormone function, or continuing to abuse the drugs.


 I'm not so sure, even moderate trt protocols are somewhat cruisy compared to natty testosterone levels let alone bmh style protocols. The main reason for this is the loss of diurnal variation in levels. This results in a significantly higher average exposure to testosterone than a natty would have for the same lab readings. The natty dips to say 12nmol every day whereas the trt guy dips to 12 nmol once a week or even once every 8 weeks.

This is why so many get hair loss and elevated hct on trt.

Still, it's not really going to aggravate this guys heart failure tho and more healthy than crashing


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## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Ultrasonic said:


> Next time stand closer rather than zooming in... I'm still impressed you got something that bad out of an iPhone though!
> 
> (This might be obvious but zooming in on phones is the same as zooming in on a photo that has already been taken and you're looking at on a PC. As in you're just stretching part of the image to make it look bigger, rather than as on a proper camera where you have a lens that can move to zoom in whilst preserving image quality.)
> 
> Propping the phone up and using the timer function rather than relying on a mirror would work even better but pretty much no-one here seems to realise this  .


 Another reason may look so blury i used the selfie camera not camera on the back, is that one not as good?


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Matt6210 said:


> Another reason may look so blury i used the selfie camera not camera on the back, is that one not as good?


 Ah, yes, that's probably it  . The sensor on the front will be worse than on the back, plus probably the software will have been optimised for taking close range selfies rather than photos at a distance in a mirror.


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## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

The lens on the selfie camera will also have been chosen with close range photos in mind.


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## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> Another reason may look so blury i used the selfie camera not camera on the back, is that one not as good?


 Selfie camera is usually a lot lower resolution than the main back camera


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## nWo (Mar 25, 2014)

charlysays said:


> I'm not so sure, even moderate trt protocols are somewhat cruisy compared to natty testosterone levels let alone bmh style protocols. The main reason for this is the loss of diurnal variation in levels. This results in a significantly higher average exposure to testosterone than a natty would have for the same lab readings. The natty dips to say 12nmol every day whereas the trt guy dips to 12 nmol once a week or even once every 8 weeks.
> 
> This is why so many get hair loss and elevated hct on trt.
> 
> Still, it's not really going to aggravate this guys heart failure tho and more healthy than crashing


 Yeah, it's more the latter part I was getting at more than anything, as well as the fact that he's not really "assisted". Probably worth mentioning too at this point that I believe there's also some added benefit in exogenous testosterone increasing one's protein turnover rate so you'll be in a state of elevated protein synthesis pretty much 24/7 with TRT, but not to the degree that you could build a physique far beyond what you'd otherwise be capable of naturally.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I prefer video because they're easier to cum to. keeps it real, I've seen some of your videos and you look similar in them too... good work :thumbup1:


 Steady on mate.


----------



## jwbs (Oct 1, 2014)

swole troll said:


> dave always been a decent guy whenever ive spoke to him directly and obviously puts out tons of information for free on youtube and whether people like him or not he did manage to put a s**t load of muscle mass on albeit with a lot of fat he is still / was carrying far more muscle than 99% of those that slate him
> 
> that said he needs to sort himself out
> his kidneys have been f**ked for a long time, he had that horrendous outbreak of acne where he turned into ben off the fantastic 4 and now hes got a dicky ticker
> ...


 Not sure what type of cardio I'd prescribe for a guy with heart disease though, isn't it a bit late? I know the "Prevention is better than cure" argument is kind of pointless after the disease has already set in, but really what type of strenuous exercise can he do now?


----------



## Frost_uk (Sep 1, 2014)

But wasn't this guy doing stupid amounts of drugs for numerous years? If he gonna go to the extreme and take way too much for too long we know full well it's gonna cause a load of damage just like majority of substances.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

DLTBB said:


> Steady on mate.


 Rumbled ...


----------



## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

To be fair he has lasted longer than I thought. When I met him a few years back he was a fat spotty mess who couldn't stand up. He needed a seat to talk, couldn't finish long sentences and was bright red with blood pressure and spots all over his head. He was and is in a right state.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

edited.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

jwbs said:


> Not sure what type of cardio I'd prescribe for a guy with heart disease though, isn't it a bit late? I know the "Prevention is better than cure" argument is kind of pointless after the disease has already set in, but really what type of strenuous exercise can he do now?


 The lad I trained with has heart failure but still trains hard, even likes my thoughts on cardio for strength and size gains. At 6' 5/6 and circa 20st lean, you'd never know he has heart issues besides the fact that he has a scar and is on borrowed time. I'd say he's just unlucky genetically rather than systematically abused his body. He doesn't have no red face nor spots either.

Whether cardio is pointless or not at this point is anyone's guess although the lad I know was told by his specialist to carry on as he was basically.


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Got any recent-ish videos Matt, a one arm dumbbell preacher curl for example? I did ask @Frandeman to post one up.. when he posted his imaginary 19s but he don't want to... between you and me I think it would make him look small so he wont post.  A 22kg DB will do for a starter mate, for sets n reps of course... :lol:


 You are 20 kg overweight 

Probably 16 inches arms after you loose all that fat mate


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Frandeman said:


> You are 20 kg overweight
> 
> Probably 16 inches arms after you loose all that fat mate


 Do you add 4" on to yours to allow for higher bodyfat levels?


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

BLUE(UK) said:


> The lad I trained with has heart failure but still trains hard, even likes my thoughts on cardio for strength and size gains. At 6' 5/6 and circa 20st lean, you'd never know he has heart issues besides the fact that he has a scar and is on borrowed time. I'd say he's just unlucky genetically rather than systematically abused his body. He doesn't have no red face nor spots either.
> 
> Whether cardio is pointless or not at this point is anyone's guess although the lad I know was told by his specialist to carry on as he was basically.


 Did he know something wasn't right?


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

jake87 said:


> Did he know something wasn't right?


 I'd imagine so Cos he has a scar where he was opened up(or at least I think that's what it is). I reckon he's had more than just heart failure going on, I knew him from the doors then saw him in the summer by chance then started training with him but whilst he works locally, his daughter lives miles away so he goes there to visit then the gym up there. Bit of a problematic time I guess.

Funny thing is, he can out bench me by a long way


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> You are 20 kg overweight
> 
> Probably 16 inches arms after you loose all that fat mate


 Just post the DB one arm preacher curl video and stop ya bitchin... Show us them claimed 19s in action :lol:

You're being exposed as a fraud mate... Time always catches people like you out. The pictures that you post are exposing you as a bullshitter they just don't add up. By choosing to post a video OR NOT as requested will be definitive.

I seriously don't think you will post the video as it will undermine you and your internet persona for the skinny little drugged up fraudster that you really are, it will shatter all of the smokescreens and mirrors which you hide behind exposing your true ikle self in the cold light of day. Mine is already uploaded and ready to go...


----------



## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Just post the DB one arm preacher curl video and stop ya bitchin... Show us them claimed 19s in action :lol:
> 
> You're being exposed as a fraud mate... Time always catches people like you out. The pictures that you post are exposing you as a bullshitter they just don't add up. By choosing to post a video OR NOT as requested will be definitive.
> 
> I seriously don't think you will post the video as it will undermine you and your internet persona for the skinny little drugged up fraudster that you really are, it will shatter all of the smokescreens and mirrors which you hide behind exposing your true ikle self in the cold light of day. Mine is already uploaded and ready to go...


 LoL

Unlike you

I don't need a dumbbell on my arm to make my muscles pop


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> LoL
> 
> Unlike you
> 
> I don't need a dumbbell on my arm to make my muscles pop


 Just post the video pal


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

All that's needed to settle this is decent full body shot showing proportions. 19" arms look terrible on someone with a 38" waist etc


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

jake87 said:


> All that's needed to settle this is decent full body shot showing proportions. 19" arms look terrible on someone with a 38" waist etc


 A video would be better as suggested. They are harder to f**k about with and show size against everyday objects like the humble Dumbbell for example.


----------



## ILLBehaviour (Dec 20, 2014)

Croslands harm reduction services in full effect


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

jwbs said:


> Not sure what type of cardio I'd prescribe for a guy with heart disease though, isn't it a bit late? I know the "Prevention is better than cure" argument is kind of pointless after the disease has already set in, but really what type of strenuous exercise can he do now?


 some slow walking

its not so much about heart health as it is getting that weight off asap

hes not going to be able to do HIIT or long distance stuff but he needs to scrimp for every extra calorie burn that he can at this point

hes still far too heavy, fat, muscle, water whatever he just needs to get that weight off


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

swole troll said:


> some slow walking
> 
> its not so much about heart health as it is getting that weight off asap
> 
> ...


 I keep up with his update videos and he sounds like he's just making excuses tbh about losing weight, always a reason his diet has fked up but he's be back on track next week, and says even with a calorie deficit his weight loss just stalls because he's got a weird body

Guys gonna keel over because he can't/won't shift the weight


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Cypionate said:


> I keep up with his update videos and he sounds like he's just making excuses tbh about losing weight, always a reason his diet has fked up but he's be back on track next week, and says even with a calorie deficit his weight loss just stalls because he's got a weird body
> 
> Guys gonna keel over because he can't/won't shift the weight


 yeah i heard him say once that he gained a lb of bodyweight on DNP

hes posted pictures on his fb and ig of him younger and he was always overweight

i think the gear just helped partition that weight a bit better

crazy like you say hes probably going to croak it sooner than he needs to because he just cant stop eating


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

swole troll said:


> yeah i heard him say once that he gained a lb of bodyweight on DNP
> 
> hes posted pictures on his fb and ig of him younger and he was always overweight
> 
> ...


 Yea I remember that DNP thing too, he even bought a custom mountain bike recently so he could go out riding for cardio, soon as it arrived he picked faults with it and said he was sending it back, wrong colour or something

Shame, but he knows what he's doing and what it's doing to his health


----------



## Old n fat (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm not really clued up on this illness, I've always heard it in context of "xxx died yesterday of heart failure " yet through this thread I've learned you can still live a little while with it if you live very carefully.

i just googled it to see what's what and this link is the first result but it's got just enough info to teach you something before getting boring .

For me me I've felt like Dave has been in a suicide mission since I've need aware of him!

he must of absolutely known he was heading here ..

http://endotronix.com/heart-failure/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpI_MjoGG3wIV6b3tCh2Y7wbmEAAYASAAEgI2xvD_BwE


----------



## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

Can't believe people have debated in this thread if 140kg for sets and reps is doable naturally? f**k me I've seen tens of lads do that over the years, it's impressive every time for sure, and I've never achieved it, but to say it is not possible is bonkers.

as for dave crossland, it's a shame to see anyone get ill but he has been the architect of his own demise, and for what, to walk around looking horrendous by most normal people's opinion and become a pseudo celebrity among a super niche group of meatheads..... weird and a true waste of his time, energy, and probably his life


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Dave 0511 said:


> Can't believe people have debated in this thread if 140kg for sets and reps is doable naturally? f**k me I've seen tens of lads do that over the years, it's impressive every time for sure, and I've never achieved it, but to say it is not possible is bonkers.
> 
> as for dave crossland, it's a shame to see anyone get ill but he has been the architect of his own demise, and for what, to walk around looking horrendous by most normal people's opinion and become a pseudo celebrity among a super niche group of meatheads..... weird and a true waste of his time, energy, and probably his life


 People are taking the piss over the 140kg.....


----------



## Dave 0511 (Feb 13, 2009)

ah right lol (woosh, over my head) !


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

i watched only part of the video but to be honest, he is terrible on video, Dave has suffered from CKD for a few years now this was the main reason he lowered his use of PEDs it is not good he has been diagnosed with Heart Disease but that is far more to do with his bodyweight and the composition of that bodyweight than steroids (although a contributing factor)

I had Chronic heart disease this time last year from a complication with a fistula in my arm it's not nice and I do not envy what Dave is going through but from the video and the way he is breathing and talking i would think they have caught it early so should be able to sort it out (plus no one newly diagnosed with Heart Failure does a 10mile bike ride and is a little out of breath lol)

forget the gear, what he does or does not take is irrelevant to a degree his issue now is diet, weight and fitness..........sod TRT his main focus should be losing bodyweight as the weight he is carrying be that muscle or fat is putting a strain on his heart, he needs to do whatever he can to lower that strain as quickly as he can.

As for all this "i can lift more than you bollox" what are you 5?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

It had nothing to do with Dave taking steroids, he was genetically susceptible and would have had heart troubles anyway. He also has an overactive Knife and fork, again his genetic markers show he is more susceptible to pie-abetes and heart failure. Taking steroids helped him fight theses genetic flaws to become the man monster he was. lesser men would have perished.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Pscarb said:


> i watched only part of the video but to be honest, he is terrible on video, Dave has suffered from CKD for a few years now this was the main reason he lowered his use of PEDs it is not good he has been diagnosed with Heart Disease but that is far more to do with his bodyweight and the composition of that bodyweight than steroids (although a contributing factor)
> 
> I had Chronic heart disease this time last year from a complication with a fistula in my arm it's not nice and I do not envy what Dave is going through but from the video and the way he is breathing and talking i would think they have caught it early so should be able to sort it out (plus no one newly diagnosed with Heart Failure does a 10mile bike ride and is a little out of breath lol)
> 
> ...


 I agree 100% with that last sentence. I mean, i'm sure I can lift way more than you ever could, but I'm not going to be immature and argue about it.


----------



## EpicSquats (Mar 29, 2014)

Dave Crosland always looked like a big unhealthy mess. He got breathing problems walking upstairs for f**k's sake.


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

EpicSquats said:


> I agree 100% with that last sentence. I mean, i'm sure I can lift way more than you ever could, but I'm not going to be immature and argue about it.


 exactly i am damn sure that even before i was unwell standing at 108kg with abs at 5'5" tall which i was told was impressive half the guys on this forum or any forum could lift more than me, who gives a fukc unless you start every conversation with "I bench blah blah blah" then it is irrelevant to anybody else other than you......



EpicSquats said:


> Dave Crosland always looked like a big unhealthy mess. He got breathing problems walking upstairs for f**k's sake.


 exactly he made a goal a few years ago of being the Rich Piano of the UK and wanted to get to 400lbs and did everything he could to get to that weight, thats gonna come back and bite you at some point in time.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Pscarb said:


> exactly i am damn sure that even before i was unwell standing at 108kg with abs at 5'5" tall which i was told was impressive half the guys on this forum or any forum could lift more than me, who gives a fukc unless you start every conversation with "I bench blah blah blah" then it is irrelevant to anybody else other than you......
> 
> exactly he made a goal a few years ago of being the Rich Piano of the UK and wanted to get to 400lbs and did everything he could to get to that weight, thats gonna come back and bite you at some point in time.


 It's lots of people's goals to lift more than other people, power lifters, strongmen so to them it's completely irrelevant that you look better than them or have abs?

very ignorant to say nobody cares about how much you or they lift.

People have different goals and different measuring sticks of success mate.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Pscarb said:


> exactly i am damn sure that even before i was unwell standing at 108kg with abs at 5'5" tall which i was told was impressive half the guys on this forum or any forum could lift more than me, who gives a fukc unless you start every conversation with "I bench blah blah blah" then it is irrelevant to anybody else other than you......
> 
> exactly he made a goal a few years ago of being the Rich Piano of the UK and wanted to get to 400lbs and did everything he could to get to that weight, thats gonna come back and bite you at some point in time.





Matt6210 said:


> It's lots of people's goals to lift more than other people, power lifters, strongmen so to them it's completely irrelevant that you look better than them or have abs?
> 
> very ignorant to say nobody cares about how much you or they lift.
> 
> People have different goals and different measuring sticks of success mate.


 This morning w UK-Muscle, with different sections for different goals (bodybuilding, strength and power, strongman) which often is forgotten that this isn't a forum exclusive to one group hence the occasional conflict or banter.

I am sure that most realise this but still it continues.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

BLUE(UK) said:


> This morning w UK-Muscle, with different sections for different goals (bodybuilding, strength and power, strongman) which often is forgotten that this isn't a forum exclusive to one group hence the occasional conflict or banter.
> 
> I am sure that most realise this but still it continues.


 The thing is mate topics mostly go off topic anyway, it's like me going on every thread where people talk about dieting and moaning saying "I don't care how much weight you've lost I can bench 200kg" which is essentially what @Pscarb just did, if people are talking about things you don't find relivant just don't comment.

and an essential word you said there was "banter" as the whole discussion on this thread was people messing about, and actually just having a laugh with @The-Real-Deal


----------



## Heavyassweights (Jan 18, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> It's lots of people's goals to lift more than other people, power lifters, strongmen so to them it's completely irrelevant that you look better than them or have abs?
> 
> very ignorant to say nobody cares about how much you or they lift.
> 
> People have different goals and different measuring sticks of success mate.


 lift less weight and be a huge ripped god

or

lift more weight and be a mess

i bet you could drop some of your weights and improve form and reach your physique goals quicker

no ****

x


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Heavyassweights said:


> lift less weight and be a huge ripped god
> 
> or
> 
> ...


 Think Larry wheels may be an exception to your rule mate.

but if your talking about me personally Im not a power lifter I don't lift for strength, just size.

i don't go for 1 rep Max's on anything but bench.

but got a good bench if people are talking about benching obviously I'll talk about it.


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

Matt6210 said:


> The thing is mate topics mostly go off topic anyway, it's like me going on every thread where people talk about dieting and moaning saying "I don't care how much weight you've lost I can bench 200kg" which is essentially what @Pscarb just did, if people are talking about things you don't find relivant just don't comment.
> 
> and an essential word you said there was "banter" as the whole discussion on this thread was people messing about, and actually just having a laugh with @The-Real-Deal


 I agree.



Heavyassweights said:


> lift less weight and be a huge ripped god
> 
> or
> 
> ...


 Not everyone lifts to 'look like a bodybuilder'. Personally, I'd prefer to be like Larry Wheels, both physique and strength than any bodybuilder. Obviously I'll never be either but it shows what my aims are.



Matt6210 said:


> Think Larry wheels may be an exception to your rule mate.
> 
> but if your talking about me personally Im not a power lifter I don't lift for strength, just size.
> 
> but got a good bench if people are talking about benching obviously I'll talk about it.


 I'd talk benching but I'm s**t at it. :lol:


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

Heavyassweights said:


> i bet you could drop some of your weights and improve form and reach your physique goals quicker
> 
> no ****
> 
> x


 or increase his weights and reach his strength goals quicker


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I would wager that *most* (not all) of the juiced up folks on this site jump on the gear to build muscle mass and get big. IMO they have done so because they failed to do this as a natural lifter. Taking gear widens this window exponentially.... To gain good dense muscle mass naturally you need to put the time in, have the correct routine and progress, to get big you need to lift big. You also need to eat big and healthy to sustain and build that muscle mass. In general I have a somewhat lesser degree of respect for achievements form people who take gear unless competing on a level playing field opposed to the natural athlete.. They post up pictures stating Look at me when in reality it is not truly them... Its like sitting in a car and saying look how fast I am... Its not you who is fast its the fu**ing car, all your doing is sitting on your arse and pressing the pedal to see how fast IT can go. You may be driving it but its the man made machine doing the actual speed, just like its the man made drugs giving the results.


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I would wager that *most* (not all) of the juiced up folks on this site jump on the gear to build muscle mass and get big. IMO they have done so because they failed to do this as a natural lifter. Taking gear widens this window exponentially.... To gain good dense muscle mass naturally you need to put the time in, have the correct routine and progress, to get big you need to lift big. You also need to eat big and healthy to sustain and build that muscle mass. In general I have a somewhat lesser degree of respect for achievements form people who take gear unless competing on a level playing field opposed to the natural athlete.. They post up pictures stating Look at me when in reality it is not truly them... Its like sitting in a car and saying look how fast I am... Its not you who is fast its the fu**ing car, all your doing is sitting on your arse and pressing the pedal to see how fast IT can go. You may be driving it but its the man made machine doing the actual speed, just like its the man made drugs giving the results.


 Can see were you coming from, I have a somewhat lesser degree of respect for people with god like or even decent genetics, just the look of the draw. Obviously training and eating right helps them gain too, but there on to a winner from the start just down too luck or who's nut sack they were fired out of :lol:


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

I also have little respect for those who say they cant do it because of their genetics... FFS they need to MTFU and lift


----------



## jake87 (May 7, 2010)

Both good points.


----------



## DLTBB (Jan 26, 2015)

The-Real-Deal said:


> To gain good dense muscle mass naturally you need to put the time in, have the correct routine and progress, to get big you need to lift big. You also need to eat big and healthy to sustain and build that muscle mass.


 Nuh uh, 1g Tren Ace/week with 5 light sessions of fluff and pump for sets of 12-15 and a couple of decently nutritious meals a day is all it takes buddy boyo.


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I also have little respect for those who say they cant do it because of their genetics... FFS they need to MTFU and lift


 110kg natty benched here :lol: , an yes sets aswell as reps..... you've got decent genetics aswell as putting the work in, dont see many natty 58 year olds benching 140, you'd have to admit some people are more athletic and respond to training better than others?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

D 4 Damage said:


> 110kg natty benched here :lol: , an yes sets aswell as reps..... you've got decent genetics aswell as putting the work in, dont see many natty 58 year olds benching 140, you'd have to admit some people are more athletic and respond to training better than others?


 steady on ol chap... I'm only 48  110 is a god bench mate


----------



## Dutch75 (May 13, 2017)

Every time I think of jumping on the gear I read something like this! Don't know if that's a blessing or a curse!


----------



## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

Dutch75 said:


> Every time I think of jumping on the gear I read something like this! Don't know if that's a blessing or a curse!


 Dont let Dave crosland put you off, I don't no of any one taking steroids that have ended up in a mess like him


----------



## Dutch75 (May 13, 2017)

vetran said:


> Dont let Dave crosland put you off, I don't no of any one taking steroids that have ended up in a mess like him


 Cheers Vet. I've put off gear so long but get the feeling i'll cave pretty soon!


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Dutch75 said:


> Cheers Vet. I've put off gear so long but get the feeling i'll cave pretty soon!


 Everyday you don't take is just another day wasted


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

vetran said:


> Dont let Dave crosland put you off, I don't no of any one taking steroids that have ended up in a mess like him


 Maybe not but for balance, and not looking to score points here, don't you have some fairly significant health issues likely caused by your steroid use?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Matt6210 said:


> It's lots of people's goals to lift more than other people, power lifters, strongmen so to them it's completely irrelevant that you look better than them or have abs?
> 
> very ignorant to say nobody cares about how much you or they lift.
> 
> People have different goals and different measuring sticks of success mate.


 WOW, ignorant well that's me told, my point was that the thread was concerning someone's health but the majority of this thread is about how much you can lift and as far as i know none of those discussing how high they can piss up a wall was discussing it in a strongman or powerlifting way?

To be fair it is irrelevant how strong you are unless you are talking in a thread concerning lifts as a powerlifter or strongman but then it's irrelevant if you or i look better or have abs, that's not what i said or hinted at my point was clearly that it does not matter in this thread.

Just to point out i look sh1t and nothing like my former self but then in this thread that is irrelevant as well.

Maybe you look at some of your replies to others in other threads before calling someone ignorant.......Pot/Kettle ??


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Matt6210 said:


> The thing is mate topics mostly go off topic anyway, it's like me going on every thread where people talk about dieting and moaning saying "I don't care how much weight you've lost I can bench 200kg" which is essentially what @Pscarb just did, if people are talking about things you don't find relivant just don't comment.
> 
> and an essential word you said there was "banter" as the whole discussion on this thread was people messing about, and actually just having a laugh with @The-Real-Deal


 thats not what i essentially said at all the point was how you look has no bearing on what you can lift, you seem to have been butthurt by what i said and i am not sure why? was it the 5yr old comment ?


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Pscarb said:


> WOW, ignorant well that's me told, my point was that the thread was concerning someone's health but the majority of this thread is about how much you can lift and as far as i know none of those discussing how high they can piss up a wall was discussing it in a strongman or powerlifting way?
> 
> To be fair it is irrelevant how strong you are unless you are talking in a thread concerning lifts as a powerlifter or strongman but then it's irrelevant if you or i look better or have abs, that's not what i said or hinted at my point was clearly that it does not matter in this thread.
> 
> ...


 Every single thread on here goes off topic, we were talking about the health effects of steroid use and brought @The-Real-Deal into it because he's natural and was actually taking the piss because he's always going on about benching "140kg for sets and reps" no one was even being serious or having a "pissing contest".

i still struggle to see how it's irrelevant how strong someone is when we're on a weight lifting forum, you may say on a thread about someone's health, but like I said threads always go off topic and could the fact that Dave Crosland lifted heavy for x amount of years not play a part in his heart condition? Being strong and lifting heavy is relevant to a lot of people that go gym(including Dave Crosland), not everyone that goes into a gym has the sole purpose of having abs.

your going to have a lot of repetitive conversations on a forum of this nature because seriously how much stuff is there to talk about.

I don't understand why it offends you so much people comparing lifts or taking about what they can lift.

im not "butthurt" by anything mate, simply pointing something out.

but essentially like someone else pointed out, the conversations on this thread about how much you could lift was simply banter.


----------



## Frank bull (Dec 20, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I would wager that *most* (not all) of the juiced up folks on this site jump on the gear to build muscle mass and get big. IMO they have done so because they failed to do this as a natural lifter. Taking gear widens this window exponentially.... To gain good dense muscle mass naturally you need to put the time in, have the correct routine and progress, to get big you need to lift big. You also need to eat big and healthy to sustain and build that muscle mass. In general I have a somewhat lesser degree of respect for achievements form people who take gear unless competing on a level playing field opposed to the natural athlete.. They post up pictures stating Look at me when in reality it is not truly them... Its like sitting in a car and saying look how fast I am... Its not you who is fast its the fu**ing car, all your doing is sitting on your arse and pressing the pedal to see how fast IT can go. You may be driving it but its the man made machine doing the actual speed, just like its the man made drugs giving the results.


 End of the day natty or assisted it's only borrowed muscle! Stop training for what ever reason and it's gone


----------



## Cypionate (Jan 17, 2016)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Its like sitting in a car and saying look how fast I am... Its not you who is fast its the fu**ing car, all your doing is sitting on your arse and pressing the pedal to see how fast IT can go. You may be driving it but its the man made machine doing the actual speed, just like its the man made drugs giving the results.


 I'd say it was more like having a race between a car running on normal petrol vs one running on a racing mixture fuel, same car, still the same engine and body, just better fuel

Gear users = same body, same engine, just better fuel


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Matt6210 said:


> Every single thread on here goes off topic, we were talking about the health effects of steroid use and brought @The-Real-Deal into it because he's natural and was actually taking the piss because he's always going on about benching "140kg for sets and reps" no one was even being serious or having a "pissing contest".
> 
> i still struggle to see how it's irrelevant how strong someone is when we're on a weight lifting forum, you may say on a thread about someone's health, but like I said threads always go off topic and could the fact that Dave Crosland lifted heavy for x amount of years not play a part in his heart condition? Being strong and lifting heavy is relevant to a lot of people that go gym(including Dave Crosland), not everyone that goes into a gym has the sole purpose of having abs.
> 
> ...


 it doesn't offend ME its not me who got all twisted about what i said so much you had to mention it twice, i responded because you called me ignorant that offended me although not sure how insulting me would help to get your point across??

so your comments about lifting were banter but my comment about lifting was ignorant mmmmm ok then


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Pscarb said:


> it doesn't offend ME its not me who got all twisted about what i said so much you had to mention it twice, i responded because you called me ignorant that offended me although not sure how insulting me would help to get your point across??
> 
> so your comments about lifting were banter but my comment about lifting was ignorant mmmmm ok then


 Being called 5 because I was talking about lifting weights on a weight lifting forum offended me, Although I wasn't trying to insult you and I wouldn't really say suggesting someone's view on a certain matter was ignorant was a direct insult, and it wasn't the first time you've done it

if you don't want to talk about your lifts or ask people about there's then that's fair enough, other people obviously want to.


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

Frank bull said:


> End of the day natty or assisted it's only borrowed muscle! Stop training for what ever reason and it's gone


 Never a truer word Frank bull


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

The-Real-Deal said:


> steady on ol chap... I'm only 48  110 is a god bench mate


 Was just being a tit with 58 couldn't help myself :lol:


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Matt6210 said:


> Being called 5 because I was talking about lifting weights on a weight lifting forum offended me, Although I wasn't trying to insult you and I wouldn't really say suggesting someone's view on a certain matter was ignorant was a direct insult, and it wasn't the first time you've done it
> 
> if you don't want to talk about your lifts or ask people about there's then that's fair enough, other people obviously want to.


 i think you will find i did not at any point mention you in the post that i asked if you are 5 to which you can answer NO you called me ignorant and yes that does offend me as for it not being the first time i have said this, yes i know because at some point you lot are like 5 yr olds

listen if you do not like it leave the forum i give zero f**ks, if you or anyone else want to talk about your lifts then do it in the strength section or in a thread about lifting weight.


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

Pscarb said:


> i think you will find i did not at any point mention you in the post that i asked if you are 5 to which you can answer NO you called me ignorant and yes that does offend me as for it not being the first time i have said this, yes i know because at some point you lot are like 5 yr olds
> 
> listen if you do not like it leave the forum i give zero f**ks, if you or anyone else want to talk about your lifts then do it in the strength section or in a thread about lifting weight.


 Wow, that last paragraph....


----------



## stargazer (Sep 14, 2017)

Yawn Yawn, Dicky ticker, enlarged heart, LVH, hope he gets it sorted, i'm sure he''ll get it sorted, get back to health.

He has CHF for fvcks sake, 50% of people diagnosed don't live past 5 years, i'm now 5 1/2 years and getting worse, get real and stop talking crap peeps.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Pscarb said:


> i think you will find i did not at any point mention you in the post that i asked if you are 5 to which you can answer NO you called me ignorant and yes that does offend me as for it not being the first time i have said this, yes i know because at some point you lot are like 5 yr olds
> 
> listen if you do not like it leave the forum i give zero f**ks, if you or anyone else want to talk about your lifts then do it in the strength section or in a thread about lifting weight.


 So does this go about discussing anything that's not directly linked to the original posts, or just people talking about lifts?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

vetran said:


> Dont let Dave crosland put you off, I don't no of any one taking steroids that have ended up in a mess like him


 Not that many are as lucky as Dave. They mostly just die...its generally with a heart attack or kidney faiure


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

stargazer said:


> Yawn Yawn, Dicky ticker, enlarged heart, LVH, hope he gets it sorted, i'm sure he''ll get it sorted, get back to health.
> 
> He has CHF for fvcks sake, 50% of people diagnosed don't live past 5 years, i'm now 5 1/2 years and getting worse, get real and stop talking crap peeps.


 since you quoted me without 'quoting' me whats your point then

he should just stay the same weight because 50% dont live past 5 years?


----------



## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

swole troll said:


> some slow walking
> 
> its not so much about heart health as it is getting that weight off asap
> 
> ...


 He freely admitted in numerous videos he loathes diet and cardio so he doesn't do any.


----------



## Devil (May 31, 2016)

stargazer said:


> Yawn Yawn, Dicky ticker, enlarged heart, LVH, hope he gets it sorted, i'm sure he''ll get it sorted, get back to health.
> 
> He has CHF for fvcks sake, 50% of people diagnosed don't live past 5 years, i'm now 5 1/2 years and getting worse, get real and stop talking crap peeps.


 Steroid use/abuse induced? Age? And time/dosages etc?

If you wouldn't mind sharing

Dont worry if not mate


----------



## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Devil said:


> Steroid use/abuse induced? Age? And time/dosages etc?
> 
> If you wouldn't mind sharing
> 
> Dont worry if not mate


 Cardio?

Diet?

Ancestors' medical history?

Maybe even stress levels 6-10 years ago?


----------



## Devil (May 31, 2016)

AncientOldBloke said:


> Cardio?
> 
> Diet?
> 
> ...


 Yep all this info would be nice/relevant @stargazer


----------



## AncientOldBloke (Dec 11, 2014)

Problem is that we need measurements on 500 of these folks before allowing ourselves to form a theory of causality.

Not being an academic, I've always laughed at the white coat brigade who would spend years on a project. Now I think they're dedicated and have a burning desire for their life's work.

I find myself reading more and more academic studies. I know at the first paragraph that non-scrip roids are bad for general health and shorten the (ab)user's life. But I take them regardless.

Dave Crosland knows all the downsides of roids too. He didn't become ill then his doctor told him what caused it. He knew already.


----------



## JohhnyC (Mar 16, 2015)

AncientOldBloke said:


> He freely admitted in numerous videos he loathes diet and cardio so he doesn't do any.


 I think he will change his mind now.


----------



## Rockstar618111 (May 20, 2018)

I noticed that Dave for a while had this cough on each of his videos - I have seen that same type of cough with others with CHF.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

AncientOldBloke said:


> He freely admitted in numerous videos he loathes diet and cardio so he doesn't do any.


 i was posting what he should do, not what he does

an alcoholic with liver disease should stop drinking although they probably wont if they've drank to that extent

Dave has to move more, its not a big ask 
im not saying it would cure him as stargazer has seemingly suggested i did in his post 
im saying it would help prolong what he has left


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

stargazer said:


> Yawn Yawn, Dicky ticker, enlarged heart, LVH, hope he gets it sorted, i'm sure he''ll get it sorted, get back to health.
> 
> He has CHF for fvcks sake, 50% of people diagnosed don't live past 5 years, i'm now 5 1/2 years and getting worse, get real and stop talking crap peeps.


 this is it, this is serious and won't just go away it's not "Getting sorted" by just backing off a few things, Dave needs to totally change what he does he has CKD and now CHF i had both last year (CHF caused by Sepsis), i had a transplant to fix the CKD and an operation to cure the cause of my CHF (nothing to do with heart valves etc an external cause) i have lost a lot of weight come off all peds and increased fitness and i am not back to normal, Dave does not have the options of the fixes so to speak i had so needs to change something in his life.



Matt6210 said:


> So does this go about discussing anything that's not directly linked to the original posts, or just people talking about lifts?


 Keeping all threads on a topic should be followed anyway but i have this sneaky feeling your just being pedantic now.....just to drag this on...


----------



## Rockstar618111 (May 20, 2018)

@Pscarb out of interest if you were in daves shoes what would you do right now to try and prolong his health?


----------



## 3752 (Jan 7, 2005)

Rockstar618111 said:


> @Pscarb out of interest if you were in daves shoes what would you do right now to try and prolong his health?


 Lose weight via diet and increased activity (weights and cardio type)

Stop all PED use even TRT for a time

use supplements to lower inflammation, increase heart health etc the main goal would be to decrease the strain on his heart and the biggest one at the moment is his weight so that would be my priority.


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Poor guy, I wish him all the best in recovery.

Unfortunately not only peds and lifestyle are to blame. The massive amount of meat intake of bodybuilders will generally lead to heart and kidney related problems compounded with drugs... but most just bury their heads in the sand. Happy I went plant based a few years ago and wouldn't ever switch back.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

MXD said:


> Poor guy, I wish him all the best in recovery.
> 
> Unfortunately not only peds and lifestyle are to blame. The massive amount of meat intake of bodybuilders will generally lead to heart and kidney related problems compounded with drugs... but most just bury their heads in the sand. Happy I went plant based a few years ago and wouldn't ever switch back.


 Bro your a veggie and that's you in your Avi pic?


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Matt6210 said:


> Bro your a veggie and that's you in your Avi pic?


 Yeah.

been vegan 4 years. Got bigger and stronger as a result. Meat eating is not good for you imo.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

MXD said:


> Yeah.
> 
> been vegan 4 years. Got bigger and stronger as a result. Meat eating is not good for you imo.


 Looking good bro, this shits hard enough without being vegan!!

couldnt imagine how hard it must be getting cals and protein in.


----------



## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

D 4 Damage said:


> Wow, that last paragraph....


 Get off your knees


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Matt6210 said:


> Looking good bro, this shits hard enough without being vegan!!
> 
> couldnt imagine how hard it must be getting cals and protein in.


 Way way easier actually.

daily diet currently: 190/450/105 - 210p with bcaa

Diet

meal 1

Oats / cereal 100g

Chia 20g

peanut butter 20g

Banana

20/70/20

Meal 2

Beans on toast hummus spinach

35/100/20

meal 3

Pita

Felafal *4

Red cabbage

Pickle

Spinach

Hummus

Lemon

35/75/20

Meal 4

Rice peas hummus avocado broccoli

30/100/15

Meal 5

100g lentils

Broccoli

Coconut oil gravy

30/80/15

Meal 6

Satan 50g

Veg

omega oil

45p/10c/15

total:

190/450/105

during training 20g vegan bcaa


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

MXD said:


> Way way easier actually.
> 
> daily diet currently: 190/450/105 - 210p with bcaa
> 
> ...


 190 seems low protein mate, how much you weigh?


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

MXD said:


> Yeah.
> 
> been vegan 4 years. Got bigger and stronger as a result. Meat eating is not good for you imo.


 do you not feel a tad guilty as a vegan when promoting a website that came about from selling whey which is a byproduct of the dairy industry 
arguably the worse treatment of livestock outside of battery hens

no hate, entirely your choice i just found it a bit odd if your reasons are ethical


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

Matt6210 said:


> 190 seems low protein mate, how much you weigh?


 I got to 230lb last year with lower protein lol.

you do not need over 200g unless you're over 100k imo. I noticed I got stronger and bigger eating way less. I therosie that when you over eat protein glucenogencis kicks in massively and you metabolise protein at a much higher rate. A diet at around a gram per pound body weight is more protein sparing imo.

also the ratios of plant based proteins bcaa aren't as bad for you gene expression wise. As in high amounts of leuicine ect will cause expression of unnecessary genes leading to higher rates of tissue growth that's not needed ie cancer. Just my opinion although there are plenty of studies that show increased amount of lean meat increases cancer risk ect.


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

swole troll said:


> do you not feel a tad guilty as a vegan when promoting a website that came about from selling whey which is a byproduct of the dairy industry
> arguably the worse treatment of livestock outside of battery hens
> 
> no hate, entirely your choice i just found it a bit odd if your reasons are ethical


 Just caught that I've been a member of this website for a very long time I should update my profile page I think. Also, they still sell vegan bcaa ect so it's not all bad.


----------



## vetran (Oct 17, 2009)

Matt6210 said:


> 190 seems low protein mate, how much you weigh?


 Your going of topic again ,haven't you been told once :whistling:


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

Tricky said:


> Get off your knees


 What you saying? I'm blozing him off?


----------



## empzb (Jan 8, 2006)

MXD said:


> Way way easier actually.
> 
> daily diet currently: 190/450/105 - 210p with bcaa
> 
> ...


 What compounds are you running to make the most of all that?

Or is it the Satan.... (Off to google what it is but anyone taking it probably doesn't need gear :lol: )


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

vetran said:


> Your going of topic again ,haven't you been told once :whistling:


 Every one goes off topic on every thread, it only pisses him off if you talk about lifts or ask people about lifts, I think anyway....

Not seen him say anything to anyone else on any other thread....


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

empzb said:


> What compounds are you running to make the most of all that?
> 
> Or is it the Satan.... (Off to google what it is but anyone taking it probably doesn't need gear :lol: )


 Haha

I used to run moderate cycles for years. But since going vegan I run low ones. I mean for example I used to say do

800 test 400 tren 600 mast 20mg dbol but when I switched to vegan I lowered test to 100 and just used 400 tren no mast got better results. I think my gut health improved the most which is why I gained so much better, can't say for sure though I just know I broke plateaus in strength and size that I'd been trying to for years eating meat and dairy.

I havnt cycled in over 2 years now however I just started back training. I'm using:

25mg ostarine / 10mg gw/ 25mg mk677

200mg injectable carnitine with 2 iu insulin.

Gonna be good gaining some size back as i got pretty skinny not doing any training and eating once a day for 18 months.


----------



## Tricky (Jan 21, 2017)

D 4 Damage said:


> What you saying? I'm blozing him off?


 Ofcourse stevie wonder could see that. His last paragraph was hardly that ruthless I think the fact he is a mod had you down in your knees so quick


----------



## D 4 Damage (Dec 14, 2017)

Tricky said:


> Ofcourse stevie wonder could see that. His last paragraph was hardly that ruthless I think the fact he is a mod had you down in your knees so quick


 Haha nooooooo, quite the opposite, was definatly a sarcastic 'wow' because he spat his dummy big time in that last paragraph, hence the laughing face


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Every one goes off topic on every thread, it only pisses him off if you talk about lifts or ask people about lifts, I think anyway....
> 
> Not seen him say anything to anyone else on any other thread....


 Whats your lifts Matt


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Whats your lifts Matt


 Can you please stay on topic mate


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

MXD said:


> Haha
> 
> I used to run moderate cycles for years. But since going vegan I run low ones. I mean for example I used to say do
> 
> ...


 Why do you as a vegan feel its ok to inject steroids?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Can you please stay on topic mate


 Sorry blud

:lol:


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Why do you as a vegan feel its ok to inject steroids?


 Because there not animal products?

well that was a fu**ing easy one...

edit: that's off topic


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

What was the topic mate?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Because there not animal products?
> 
> well that was a fu**ing easy one...


 Yeah but they were tested on animals back in the day... without this cruelty they would not be what they are today...


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Yeah but they were tested on animals back in the day... without this cruelty they would not be what they are today...


 Mate It's hard enough for vegans as it is I don't think we can start tracing stuff back like that.

next it will be they can't eat kidney beans because a llama choked on one and died 26 years ago.


----------



## MXD (Jan 23, 2008)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Yeah but they were tested on animals back in the day... without this cruelty they would not be what they are today...


 Where they? Am I financing the continuing testing of steroids on animals? No. No creulty issue.

Veganism is trying to do the least harm possible. Not to undo harm that's impossible to do?

I still wear old leather boots I bought before I was vegan. Same ting blud.



Matt6210 said:


> Because there not animal products?
> 
> well that was a fu**ing easy one...
> 
> edit: that's off topic


 Bingo. Pretty obvious.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

@The-Real-Deal or vegans can't eat coconut because coconuts hurt people.

edit: guns don't kill people coconuts do


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Mate It's hard enough for vegans as it is I don't think we can start tracing stuff back like that.


----------



## swole troll (Apr 15, 2015)

The-Real-Deal said:


> Why do you as a vegan feel its ok to inject steroids?


 steroids are derived from sweet potatoes

that's about as vegan as it gets


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> @The-Real-Deal or vegans can't eat coconut because coconuts hurt people.
> 
> edit: guns don't kill people coconuts do


 The average coconut palm grows between 24 and 35 meters high. The average coconut weighs between 1 + 4 kg meaning when they fall they have an average impact of 1 metric tonne. Falling Coconuts kill approximately 150 people per year making them more dangerous than the great white shark.

eat a coconut and save a life


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

swole troll said:


> steroids are used by sweet potatoes
> 
> that's about as vegan as it gets


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> The average coconut palm grows between 24 and 35 meters high. The average coconut weighs between 1 + 4 kg meaning when they fall they have an average impact of 1 metric tonne. Falling Coconuts kill approximately 150 people per year making them more dangerous than the great white shark.
> 
> eat a coconut and save a life


 Maybe not so? The more you eat the greater the demand so the more trees they will plant....

stop eating coconuts and save a life.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Matt6210 said:


> Maybe not so? The more you eat the greater the demand so the more trees they will plant....
> 
> stop eating coconuts and save a life.


 But if you don't eat them, them nuts they will grow into new trees increasing the risk further. Eat that coconut stop the spread and re-germination of new trees and save two lives.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

The-Real-Deal said:


> But if you don't eat them, them nuts they will grow into new trees increasing the risk further. Eat that coconut stop the spread and re-germination of new trees and save two lives.


 Didn't think of that you trump me every time brother


----------



## BLUE(UK) (Jan 9, 2008)

The-Real-Deal said:


> The average coconut palm grows between 24 and 35 meters high. The average coconut weighs between 1 + 4 kg meaning when they fall they have an average impact of 1 metric tonne. Falling Coconuts kill approximately 150 people per year making them more dangerous than the great white shark.
> 
> eat a coconut and save a life


 Are any of that 150 fairground workers?


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

BLUE(UK) said:


> Are any of that 150 fairground workers?


 yeah, Jamaican fairground workers.


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> I'd preffer 40 odd years as a lion than 70 odd as a sheep.


 You'll change your tune at year 39 i guarantee it


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> You'll change your tune at year 39 i guarantee it


 I used to tell everyone in my twenties I would be dead before I hit 30,

Now I'm 41 with a family and a psychiatrist


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> You'll change your tune at year 39 i guarantee it


 Anyone taking steroids has to come to terms with the fact they are possibly doing irreversible damage to there body and possibly taking years off there life, if your one of those that come out with s**t like...

"it's ok I take tudca"

"It's ok I cruise on 125mg test"

"it's ok I give blood"

"it's ok there's people out there doing a lot more than me"

then your naive....


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Matt6210 said:


> Anyone taking steroids has to come to terms with the fact they are possibly doing irreversible damage to there body and possibly taking years off there life, if your one of those that come out with s**t like...
> 
> "it's ok I take tudca"
> 
> ...


 I think more along the lines of fk it, that's why I've come back into bodybuilding at full throttle

I fully expect to have some collision at some stage with my own mortality, but after a 10 year layoff during which abusing myself with drugs and alcohol I've accepted what will be will be.

The gym and steroid use, thyroid, hgh etc is a better option for keeping me around longer than tazering myself and calling the cops


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

GTT said:


> I think more along the lines of fk it, that's why I've come back into bodybuilding at full throttle
> 
> I fully expect to have some collision at some stage with my own mortality, but after a 10 year layoff during which abusing myself with drugs and alcohol I've accepted what will be will be.
> 
> The gym and steroid use, thyroid, hgh etc is a better option for keeping me around longer than tazering myself and calling the cops


 Maybe not, they would put you in a padded room after so long...


----------



## 6083 (Jun 21, 2007)

Matt6210 said:


> Maybe not, that would put you in a padded room after so long...


 Got evaluated to be sectioned once and another time my family almost did it.

Voluntarily went to a secure mental health hospital for help, placed scared me sane, all doors locked, everyone has a big (minder) escorting them around.


----------



## Ultrasonic (Jul 13, 2004)

Matt6210 said:


> Anyone taking steroids has to come to terms with the fact they are possibly doing irreversible damage to there body and possibly taking years off there life,


 And yet you seem to struggle to understand why anyone is natty :tongue: .


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Ultrasonic said:


> And yet you seem to struggle to understand why anyone is natty :tongue: .


 Yeah because there's no point... you either get a different hobby, or f**k ya sen up a bit...


----------



## Lifesizepenguin (Jul 25, 2016)

Matt6210 said:


> Anyone taking steroids has to come to terms with the fact they are possibly doing irreversible damage to there body and possibly taking years off there life, if your one of those that come out with s**t like...
> 
> "it's ok I take tudca"
> 
> ...


 I try to keep as healthy as I can given the circumstances. it's irrelevant - i know when it really comes a down to it, you me and anyone else won't wanna go.

I'm under no illusion


----------



## Denied (Sep 25, 2008)

The-Real-Deal said:


> The average coconut palm grows between 24 and 35 meters high. The average coconut weighs between 1 + 4 kg meaning when they fall they have an average impact of 1 metric tonne. Falling Coconuts kill approximately 150 people per year making them more dangerous than the great white shark.
> 
> eat a coconut and save a life


 As good as all that sounds, its all made up. There's no evidence for coconuts killing that many people.


----------



## Matt6210 (Feb 15, 2018)

Lifesizepenguin said:


> I try to keep as healthy as I can given the circumstances. it's irrelevant - i know when it really comes a down to it, you me and anyone else won't wanna go.
> 
> I'm under no illusion


 I'm not saying I want to, I'm saying I know the risks associated with taking steroids and it's a possibility.


----------



## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Denied said:


> As good as all that sounds, its all made up. There's no evidence for coconuts killing that many people.


 Okay, but don't sit under a coconut tree when on holiday


----------



## iamyou (Oct 29, 2012)

It's not a bad idea to have a heart and doppler ultrasound done if you abuse AAS. The latter is for checking your arteries and veins. If you have plague building up in your arteries and they get stiff from high blood pressure your cock will not get hard long before you will have other issues like a heart attack or seizure because the veins in your cock are the smallest. Blood flow = erections.

I started paying more attention to my blood pressure and cholesterol after learning that.  I eat a strict diet and started taking supps for cholesterol and bp. The days of running 700mg tren ace and hitting McDonalds for pre and post workout are over...

Obviously nothing can replace giving your body a break from the AAS though. The point is you don't have to find out you've f**ked yourself up after using AAS recklessly for 15 years. You can keep an eye on your health right now. Blood tests don't show everything.


----------



## Jonk891 (Dec 17, 2016)

Denied said:


> As good as all that sounds, its all made up. There's no evidence for coconuts killing that many people.


 Plenty of people have choked on them


----------



## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

The-Real-Deal said:


> I would wager that *most* (not all) of the juiced up folks on this site jump on the gear to build muscle mass and get big. IMO they have done so because they failed to do this as a natural lifter. Taking gear widens this window exponentially.... To gain good dense muscle mass naturally you need to put the time in, have the correct routine and progress, to get big you need to lift big. You also need to eat big and healthy to sustain and build that muscle mass. In general I have a somewhat lesser degree of respect for achievements form people who take gear unless competing on a level playing field opposed to the natural athlete.. They post up pictures stating Look at me when in reality it is not truly them... Its like sitting in a car and saying look how fast I am... Its not you who is fast its the fu**ing car, all your doing is sitting on your arse and pressing the pedal to see how fast IT can go. You may be driving it but its the man made machine doing the actual speed, just like its the man made drugs giving the results.


 I see your point and although you natty and I am not I won't go into that as it would be a never ending discussion as we have different goals and different systems to achieve them.

My question is what about people who take gear in powerlifting and compete in federations where gear is allowed as the federation doesn't test and even write in their statement that they have a tested category and a non tested one for who uses?

Would you still have little respect for competitors on gear that are competing against other competitors that are on gear too?


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

IronJohnDoe said:


> I see your point and although you natty and I am not I won't go into that as it would be a never ending discussion as we have different goals and different systems to achieve them.
> 
> My question is what about people who take gear in powerlifting and compete in federations where gear is allowed as the federation doesn't test and even write in their statement that they have a tested category and a non tested one for who uses?
> 
> Would you still have little respect for competitors on gear that are competing against other competitors that are on gear too?


 No, read my post mate ...

unless competing on a level playing field


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

The-Real-Deal said:


> No, read my post mate ...
> 
> unless competing on a level playing field


 that's the thing, as you know english is not my native language so I don't understand this level playing field meaning

EDIT: hold on a second than you respect it.

I just found the definition of that according to the Cambridge dictionary:

a level playing field

*a situation in which everyone has the same chance of succeeding*

so like I said that is a level paying field because if you compete in one federation that has natty and assisted categories then in the assisted category everyone is juicing hence everyone has same chances


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

IronJohnDoe said:


> that's the thing, as you know english is not my native language so I don't understand this level playing field meaning
> 
> EDIT: hold on a second than you respect it.
> 
> ...


 This is my point. I don't mind this in the slightest because it IS a level playing field! However on this forum people are called out and questioned about their lifts and get called fake when they are doing well as a natural lifter. These callers who are using gear then give them a hard time because they find it difficult to grasp how a natural lifter can attain the achievements they have. When these people look at their own gains, lifts and condition they try to debunk the natural lifter, his methods and his or her diet this is to bolster their own failings IMO.

In reality most on this site are just playing at this game and are taking gear whilst still remaining within the natural limits of what can be achieved. There is a small number of lifters who compete and have vastly exceeded the natural limit and progressed into competition against others who have also achieved similar physiques. I don have a problem with this as they compete on the level playing field as stated and props to them for their achievements. They also don't go around trying to belittle folk who have chosen to do this naturally. These guys know the score.

Being in competition shape is not healthy. To get big, strong and build a decent physique naturally you need to have a good wholesome diet, aim to lift big consistently within a solid training regime, rest up and recover.

Its that simple many people tend to overthink this. The body reacts to what you do to it...


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## Frandeman (Mar 24, 2014)

The-Real-Deal said:


> This is my point. I don't mind this in the slightest because it IS a level playing field! However on this forum people are called out and questioned about their lifts and get called fake when they are doing well as a natural lifter. These callers who are using gear then give them a hard time because they find it difficult to grasp how a natural lifter can attain the achievements they have. When these people look at their own gains, lifts and condition they try to debunk the natural lifter, his methods and his or her diet this is to bolster their own failings IMO.
> 
> In reality most on this site are just playing at this game and are taking gear whilst still remaining within the natural limits of what can be achieved. There is a small number of lifters who compete and have vastly exceeded the natural limit and progressed into competition against others who have also achieved similar physiques. I don have a problem with this as they compete on the level playing field as stated and props to them for their achievements. They also don't go around trying to belittle folk who have chosen to do this naturally. These guys know the score.
> 
> ...


 Being 20 kgs overweight ain't healthy either


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

Frandeman said:


> Being 20 kgs overweight ain't healthy either


 As always, thanks for your input Frandy. You are quite right. carrying large amounts of muscle mass ain't the healthiest thing in the world.


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## IronJohnDoe (Oct 17, 2013)

The-Real-Deal said:


> This is my point. I don't mind this in the slightest because it IS a level playing field! However on this forum people are called out and questioned about their lifts and get called fake when they are doing well as a natural lifter. These callers who are using gear then give them a hard time because they find it difficult to grasp how a natural lifter can attain the achievements they have. When these people look at their own gains, lifts and condition they try to debunk the natural lifter, his methods and his or her diet this is to bolster their own failings IMO.
> 
> In reality most on this site are just playing at this game and are taking gear whilst still remaining within the natural limits of what can be achieved. There is a small number of lifters who compete and have vastly exceeded the natural limit and progressed into competition against others who have also achieved similar physiques. I don have a problem with this as they compete on the level playing field as stated and props to them for their achievements. They also don't go around trying to belittle folk who have chosen to do this naturally. These guys know the score.
> 
> ...


 And I have to admit that I totally agree with your point. (even if I was one of those guys belittling natural lifters and achieving same of them with gear)

Personally I am preparing myself to compete next year and I chosen a federation that has a specific category for non natural lifters, I am nowhere near crossing my natural limits (yet) but I am doing whatever it takes at 360 degrees so not just about taking gear but also training and nutrition and yes even the training regime itself is not healthy but that's what I want to do.

I honestly always thought that you was a disappointed natural knoob jealous at people on gear hence why attacking them constantly on here(no offence that's were my previous thoughts about you) but after this that you wrote I respect you and your ideas and agree too. Although I remain assisted but now I do it with competition plans in mind

(on a level playing field) and it makes actually more sense to me what I do now than what I was doing before taking gear only to look good.

P. S. I wanted to like your comment but I finished the likes, kudos to you anyway!


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## The-Real-Deal (Dec 5, 2014)

IronJohnDoe said:


> And I have to admit that I totally agree with your point. (even if I was one of those guys belittling natural lifters and achieving same of them with gear)
> 
> Personally I am preparing myself to compete next year and I chosen a federation that has a specific category for non natural lifters, I am nowhere near crossing my natural limits (yet) but I am doing whatever it takes at 360 degrees so not just about taking gear but also training and nutrition and yes even the training regime itself is not healthy but that's what I want to do.
> 
> ...


 Respect mate, I hope it all goes well for you. Best of luck with competing. Anyone who is struggling to build muscle mass either on gear or naturally must have one or some of the previously mentioned fundamentals wrong, unless they are at the limit.


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